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D3soccer.com => Men's soccer => Topic started by: Saint of Old on August 12, 2014, 12:14:06 PM

Title: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 12, 2014, 12:14:06 PM
Only 4 Qualify for League Tourney

2013 Standings
SLU
RPI
Skidmore
Vassar

2014  Top 6 (Predictions in no particular order)

HOBART
A couple dissapointing seasons, but a good freshman class and continued growth should  put them in the hunt for a post season birth or even Dance expectations.

UNION
2013 was close, but no cigar in terms of post season after starting the year on a 11 game unbebaten streak. Must beat 2 of last seasons league opponents to have a chance at qualification. Union is a good squad, but must play better non-conference schedule in order to better prepare for a tough league.

VASSAR
A consistently strong team over the last decade. Made NCAA and advanced in both '11 and '12.
Vassar also have an AMAZING record against every other team in the Leauge. Four ties in league play last year however, almost saw them fail to qualify. They are well coached and are looking to make another forward step. Back to back years of not dancing will not help their cause.

RPI
Another team that Danced and danced well in '11 and '12, but failed to make the NCAA in '13.
Beaten in the League semi-final by Skidmore last season, RPI still had a relative succesful year, including beating final 4 participant, Williams. It will be a tough season for the well coached RPI however, as many teams in the league have improved dramatically and ready to take the spot that now belongs to RPI. 

SKIDMORE
The most improved team in the league.
These boys have recreated the SLU formula of stifling defense and Jamaican/African flair up top.
They are the only team in the league to beat St. Lawrence in '12 and '13.
Made it to last seasons league tourney final, and were perhaps unlucky not to get an at-large invitation to the NCAA's. Teams will underestimate Skidmore to their peril this year.
They are the real deal. Potent offense and extremely hungry after last season's dissapointment.

St. Lawrence

The boys in red have had a good run since 2010.
Won league in 10,11 and 13, adding the Tourney in 10 and 13 as well.
This year however, will be the toughest yet, after losing a 4 year starter/All American at the center of midfield. This team has struggled with injuries the last few years, and will hope for a healthy year.

Close but no Cigar:

RIT
Good team, but will not win more than 3 league games, and more is needed.

Clarkson
Not good enough for the league. With new coach and everything going the right way, maybe an average team by 2017.

Bard:
Three years into the building process, and Bard are still a work in progress. Should hope for competitiveness in a good leaggue and attempt to attract the pieces needed to improve.
It is difficult to enter a good league and find success. Just ask Hamilton, no one has heard from them in NESCAC in 4 years.

Thoughts?


Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on August 13, 2014, 04:03:34 AM
Saint:  This is going to be one of the most competitive years in Liberty League history.  But for last year's MVP all the top offensive players are back and based on published recruiting classes everyone has been loading up on defense.  I agree with your take on the top 6 teams and here are my thoughts on those teams in no specific order:

SLU:  Still the team to beat and will be stronger this year than last as younger skill players have another year and they only lose one impact player, albeit an All American.  Goalie was in the zone all year and deserved All American status.  It will be interesting to see whether he can repeat his phenomenal performance for a second year in a row.  SLU's bench could beat some of the lower echelon LL teams.   

Skidmore:  Last year may have been their best chance to make the NCAA tournament.  Two all region offensive players return but they have had consistency issues for a long time.  They can play a great game and follow it with a mediocre or poor one.  This is one of the main reasons the committee overlooked them last year.

RPI:  Like most teams in this group RPI returns almost everyone.  They also have an early season edge having taken a summer trip to Costa Rica.  They will be 4 or 5 games ahead of the other teams at the end of August.  Another team that has been bitten by the inconsistency bug.  They beat Williams last year and then laid an egg against Skidmore at home in the League semi-finals. 

Union:  Totally agree that Union's non-league schedule is a ball and chain on their tournament hopes.  Only strong team they play pre-league is Oneonta, and that is a pre-season scrimmage.  Union must have Vassar on the brain as Vassar has effectively ended their season three years running.  Union returns a bunch of players but not being challenged before league is a real impediment.  They should be motivated by school's hockey team who won the D1 national championship. 

Vassar:  Vassar has had a remarkable LL run.  They haven't lost to a LL team other than SLU the past two seasons.  As Union has to beat Vassar, Vassar has to beat SLU.  Vassar replaces 5 starters, more than any other elite team.  They have one of the top LL goal scorers who is the only returning unanimous First Teamer.  Filling holes and quality non-league opponents like Stevens and Oneonta could make for a difficult year.

Hobart:  Started mostly freshman and sophomores last year, and freshman center-mid was one of the best players in the LL.  Recruiting class is excellent and the biggest concern is going to be the maturation process of all this young talent.  Hobart still may be a year away, but if they don't make the dance this year, look out in 2015 and 2016.  The men's team may also be motivated to get out of the shadow of the women who won the National Championship last year.           











Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on August 15, 2014, 04:46:44 PM
I agree with (and appreciate) the assessments of both Saint of Old and deutschfan. It would be nice if LL could get a couple of teams into the NCAA tournament this year.  Aside from the two links below, I haven't been able to dig up much on the incoming classes of LL teams.  I did hear that Skidmore has a few strong New Englanders coming in, but that they lost one of their starting wide backs from last year to a D1 school (transfer).

http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2014/6/17/HSC_0617143137.aspx

http://www.saintsathletics.com/news/2014/6/30/MSOC_0630140236.aspx




Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on August 16, 2014, 08:20:34 PM
Student Sports lists a recruit each for RIT and RPI, and the former Vassar Asst., now the head coach at Clarkson, in his bio says he recruited 3 USSDA players for Vassar.  In less than two weeks we should know the freshman classes for all the LL teams. 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on August 18, 2014, 12:22:59 AM
I was interested to see that Bard and Middlebury held a joint clinic this spring at Bard.  It seems like a win-win for the two programs.  Middlebury gets to look at players in the tri-state area without the players having to hike all the way up to Vermont and Bard attracts players to their campus who might not otherwise visit.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: LaPaz on August 19, 2014, 10:39:53 AM
Bard's old coach is a longtime Midd assistant.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on August 22, 2014, 06:19:38 PM
In making pre-season LL predictions the following is a list of number of returning all-league players (assuming they are returning) by team: 1) SLU-6; 2) Hobart-4; 3) Skidmore-3; 4) RPI-3; 5) Union-2; 6) Vassar-1.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on August 22, 2014, 09:14:58 PM
In the absence of other compelling information, the number of returning all-league players is probably as good a basis as any for predicting the outcome of the season. In a conference of "St. Lawrence and everybody else except for a couple at the bottom," gradations may emerge in the "everyone else" clump over the course of the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on August 28, 2014, 12:03:36 PM
Pre Season Rankings (For what its worth):

http://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2014/8/27/MSOC_0827140521.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on August 29, 2014, 06:04:01 PM
In Friday afternoon action...

SLU 5 - SUNY Cortlandt 2

Clarkson 2 - Moravian 0

Montclair State 3 - Skidmore 2

Vassar 2 - SUNY Maritime 0
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on September 01, 2014, 10:05:53 PM
Takes after the first weekend.  Top six are still the same but Clarkson is knocking and Hobart and Vassar are dropping.  Charlie Kelly, freshman of the year is no longer on Hobart's roster.  Giving up 5 goals to Brandeis in a half after a Brazil v. Germany kind of performance has gotta be disappointing even if Brandeis turns out to be all-world this year.  Vassar's first team all region forward Tom Weichert is on the roster but not playing which likely means he is injured.  Unless he returns soon Vassar will have a tough time scoring which they demonstrated against Mt. St. Mary's.  Clarkson's 2-0 start will have Coach Taylor's team believing they can make the playoffs.  RPI is off to a fast start as expected given their pre-season trip, and Union likely will go undefeated until League but that won't matter if they can't win there due to SOS.  Skidmore's killer B's Brock Bakewell and Adam Beek are scoring points per usual.  An early loss to a perpetually strong Montclair State team in a very close game bodes well for their future.  St. Lawrence's all world goalie gave up two in the first game so maybe there is hope for the rest of the league.       
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 01, 2014, 11:39:51 PM
I concur with your assessment completely and would add that Bard's 15 first-year players (!) seem to be having an immediate impact.  They may not be the pushover they have been  the past few years.  It's interesting to note that they scored 2 goals on Mt. St. Mary, whereas Vassar went scoreless against the same opponent.  Hobart has a 0 GD in one of the strangest ways possible and although the roof caved in during the last 30 minutes of the Brandeis game, they deserve at least some credit for the first 60 minutes of keeping the Judges off the board.  I streamed parts of the Skidmore-Montclair State game and was impressed with Skidmore's integration of first-year players into the lineup.  We'll know more in a few days!
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 02, 2014, 10:11:20 AM
Hobart definitely helped themselves with a 5-0 win in their 2nd game of the year.
Brandeis is a good squad, but hopefully some holes in defense will be closed after watching tapes of the weekend.

Skidmore did well against a good team on the road.
3-2 also suggests that defensive issues might have to be corrected.
Skidmore should do well in the attacking portion of their game this year, but the old saying "Defense wins Tournaments" applies more than ever this year.

Speaking of defensive issues. After 16 shut outs lastyear, SLU gives up 2 goals in the first game  of the year. Not good enough for a team looking to improve this year.

Clarkson might turn out to be a pleasant surprise this season, but like Union can tell you, non-conference wins do not count for anything unless you make the league Tournament!
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 04, 2014, 07:35:23 PM
Any predictions for tomorrow night's big game between St. Lawrence and Rochester? I suspect that Rochester is still smarting a bit from last week's upset loss to Morrisville. This match between two of the region's top programs should give both teams an  idea of their early season form.  My guess?  A 1-1 draw.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 04, 2014, 08:57:11 PM
SLU has won this game I think the last 4 games.
Prior to that however, U of R had a good run.
Rochester lost 3-2 overtime to a team with strong defense and West Indian flair. This describes SLU to a T.


Rochester has a point to prove, and playing infront of their home fans in perhaps their biggest game of the year.

SLU is stronger this year than last, and knows how important it will be to have home field come Dance time.


SLU 3-1.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 05, 2014, 05:59:51 PM
Tough afternoon so far for LL teams:

SUNY Geneseo 2 - Clarkson 0

SUNY Oneonta 1 - RIT 0
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Firsttouch on September 05, 2014, 08:03:38 PM
SLU defense has already given up 4 goals this season. They graduated a midfielder and thats all.....the entire back line returns. this does not look good for the saints
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 05, 2014, 11:39:49 PM
Holy moly, boy was I wrong about the score of the UR-SLU game!  I didn't splurge on the stream, opting instead to follow the sporadic "live stats."  I didn't realize that UR only had 3 shots in the whole game until I read the game report.  Perhaps SLU was unlucky on the defensive end?  Earlier, I caught bits and pieces of the Skidmore game.  With two goals and two assists, Adam Beek led the way to complete domination of SUNY Potsdam.  The goal for Potsdam was an aberration in a game highlighting the quality Skidmore's special players.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 08, 2014, 03:06:08 PM
You are not the only one that got the SLU v. U of R wrong :)

U of R proved they are a very quality team, but the result perhaps shows that Morrisville State(who beat Rochester) is also legit. St. Lawrence must rectify its defensive issues before it really hurts them.

Giving up 6 goals in 4 games is unacceptable, injuries or not.

Rochester followed up by getting 0-0 tie against an improved Clarkson, while SLU bearly managed to beat Geneseo who outshot St. Lawrence in a tightly contested game.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 12, 2014, 02:25:36 AM
Lots of games are on tap for this weekend. There are no real marquee match-ups, but I am especially interested in the Hobart-Rochester game. Things didn't go well for the Statesmen in their last clash with a UAA opponent, so this game is an opportunity to see if the Brandeis match was an aberration and to find out how they do against Rochester compared to how St. Lawrence and Clarkson did.  Until league play begins in two weeks, we'll have to make due with inferences based on performances against common opponents (which give one a general idea about where teams are, but are not as informative as one might prefer).       
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 13, 2014, 10:35:34 PM
With all teams in action and only Skidmore, RPI, and Clarkson coming away with victories, it was a rough day for the Liberty League.  Adam Beek continued his torrid streak, RPI remained hot after their Costa Rican adventure, and Clarkson served further notice of its massively improved status under Coach Taylor.  What did we learn about the rest of the league?  Bard came back to earth against Potsdam, Union has not yet caught its stride, hard luck RIT fell just short once again, youthful Vassar is not ready for prime time, St. Lawrence has a bit more work to do before returning to its rightful spot atop the league, and Hobart kept it close against Rochester in a marked improvement over their first clash with a UAA foe.  Clarkson and St. Lawrence look to add to their win totals tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 14, 2014, 11:29:16 AM
SLU dominated shots and possession, but managed to lose the second road game of the season.

St. Lawrence has a problem on defense and with leadership that they must rectify before the start of league play.
One more loss and they could need to win the LL Tourney to get a bid.

Clarkson is serving early notice of improvement, and in all honesty the best team in the league at this stage is clearly RPI based on performance so far.

Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: LaPaz on September 15, 2014, 01:09:22 PM
hey Saint of old I noticed a mt.greylock(williamstown kid) Houston playing in net recently....whats the situation in goal the past few games?
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2014, 01:14:48 PM
SLU has been hit with the injury bug, maybe worse than they were in 2011. SLU goalie is a great kid who ooozes confidence, but was injured recently.
Freshman was in goal for both games this weekend.
The Goalie performed relatively well yesturday to get his first colelge win despite the scoreline.
Hopefully a few of the boyz will be healthy come October.

Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on September 15, 2014, 10:31:03 PM
With or without SLU's senior keeper being healthy, 6 teams are competing for 1 spot in the playoffs.  RPI, Skidmore and SLU are locks.  I wouldn't foreclose any team from the last spot.  Although RIT has the worst record to date, it showed well against Oneonta, a team that may be in the top 3 team by tomorrow.  The RPI-Skidmore fixture this week should be an excellent gauge of who is on track for the Liberty League finals.   
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2014, 10:51:37 PM
Tomorrow's league opener is an intriguing match-up.  Giving up only 1 goal in 6 games, RPI is off to a quick start following its Costa Rica trip and will be at home under the lights.  Skidmore will be led by the seemingly unstoppable Adam Beek, who has been involved in 9 of the team's 14 goals, and freshman sensation Augustine Okoye, who has 4 goals and 2 assists.  I'll go with the immovable object at home over the irresistible force, RPI 2 - Skidmore 1.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 16, 2014, 10:00:20 PM
Immovable Object prevails over Irresistable Force, RPI 1 - Skidmore 0 (2OT).  It's tough to know exactly how the game went going by Live Stats, but it looks like RPI was the stronger team throughout (19 shots for RPI versus 10 for Skidmore, 9 SOG versus 1 SOG).  Anyone see the game?
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 17, 2014, 08:19:41 AM
Now that was prescient!

RPI is a strong squad and has proven to be the best in the LL ... so far.
RPI also beat Skidmore in a close game last season before falling to them in Conference Semi.
This looks to be a stronger RPI however.
They have been really good for a while now, could this be the year they make the jump.
Next two games are against Williams and Oneonta.
If they split those two, they are legit indeed for a good run.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 18, 2014, 11:25:10 PM
Thanks, Saint!  If you throw enough darts, one is bound to find the board every once in a while.

Yesterday was another tough day at the office for Liberty League teams, with only Hobart finding joy.  Bard seems to be coming back to earth, Clarkson appears to have had an off night, Union is having trouble breaking through, and Vassar is experiencing offensive difficulties against their better opponents.  Does all this give Hobart the early season edge in securing the #4 spot?

I'm definitely looking forward to the next two RPI games.  The Skidmore and SLU games with Plattsburgh should also be revealing.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 20, 2014, 12:41:02 AM
I caught much of the second half stream of the SLU game at Potsdam.  It looked like the Saints were firmly in control and, apart from a few dicey moments during a string of corner kicks, were not in danger of being scored upon.  It's tough to get past Copeland, isn't it?!
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on September 23, 2014, 02:24:40 AM
Some big grudge games this weekend with major playoff implications.  Hobart hasn't beaten St. Lawrence since 2009 and Skidmore hasn't beaten Vassar since 2008.  Hobart has been improving since the Brandeis drubbing and with St. Lawrence relying on freshmen to score goals Hobart has an excellent chance to pull the upset.  It will be interesting to see how injured St. Lawrence's line up really is now that league games have begun.  Both teams have demonstrated excellent defense making the outcome a tossup.  If Skidmore wins it will not be an upset despite the history.  Skidmore has at least three scary good scoring threats.  Despite a low number of shots on goal Skidmore had a number of dangerous chances against RPI, the team that is playing the best soccer in the league right now, which could have easily ended the game in Skidmore's favor.  Vassar has not had a statement game against a quality team.  Its one shot against Stevens may have been lowest in its history.  Vassar's offense will be a serious question mark as long as their best striker remains sidelined and their starting freshmen learn to play tough matches.   
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 23, 2014, 08:11:39 AM
Good analysis.
I agree that RPI has been playing the best in the league so far, even after being dominated by Oneonta, who seems to be dominating everyone.
Skidmore will be in the Tournament, but the way it looks now might be on the road.
The 2009 Hobart win v. SLU was actually at the home of St. Lawrence. Saints may be a bit venerable this season, as more than a dozen players missed and continue to miss games due to injury. Including  All American and very very key players.
SLU must make lemonade out of lemons by having their younger guys show what they have, perhaps a season or two early. Vassar plays soccer the right way and had been making steady progress to National attention before last season's failure to make the dance.
There is no dance without making the LL Tourney, so all these teams know what is on the line.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 26, 2014, 04:40:52 PM
Great insights by deutschfan and Saint of Old!  After the RPI-Skidmore teaser last week, the rest of the league is primed to begin the LL season tomorrow afternoon.  Early on, it's hard to make predictions with any degree of confidence, but I'll give it the old college try anyway.  Here goes:

Bard has shown signs of improvement, but Union appears to have awakened from its slumber and should be able to start league play with a W.  Union 3 - Bard 0

The RIT-Clarkson match shows no signs of being a goalfest, although I expect the visitors to find the back of the net at least once.  RIT 1 - Clarkson 0

Hobart has definitely improved since the start of the season.  SLU's injury status may play a role in the outcome, but I see the Saints turning it up a notch and claiming a narrow victory.  SLU 2 - Hobart 1

As noted, Skidmore has multiple potent offensive weapons.  Vassar seems to be offensively challenged and has struggled defensively on the road.  Skidmore 3 - Vassar 0

 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 27, 2014, 01:19:12 PM
It takes a brave or crazy man to attempt predictions in the LL this year, so here I go:

SLU Hobart:

St. Lawrence has lost its #1 Goalie and #1 striker and #1 Defender this season, after starting the season without its #1 Midfielder lost to graduation. Hobart  meantime is a team on the rise after a horrible start.

On Sandy though, its tough to stop SLU.
2-0

Vassar Skidmore Tie.

Clarkson could shock people this year I think.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on September 27, 2014, 06:50:44 PM
Saint and Ommadawn--you are braver than me.  I do have enough fortitude to do the post mortems.

SLU-Hobart:  Horrific start for Hobart ended the game in the first 15 minutes.  SLU is way deep and can plug in quality players at every position if someone goes down.  SLU is once again the team to beat this year.  RPI moves to second on the deutschfan ratings given the Skidmore result.

Skidmore-Vassar:  League's leading scorer only plays the second half and it costs Skidmore dearly.  Despite almost 2-1 advantage in shots Skidmore loses at home and loses the first tiebreaker with Vassar if it comes to that.  Vassar was beaten badly by the only three quality teams it has faced before Skidmore.  Either they stepped it up enormously or Skidmore is not as quality as once thought.   

RIT-Clarkson:  This looked to be a pretty even game going in given RIT's close losses to Rochester and Oneonta and Clarkson's tie with Rochester.  Late goal by RIT seals the second half comeback on the road.  Now the question is where is RIT and Clarkson compared to Hobart, Vassar and Skidmore.  Going into this weekend I had 6 teams vying for 1 spot in the playoffs.  Now it is 6 for 2 as Skidmore's place on the playoff list is definitely at risk and Bard proves it can't contend.

Union-Bard: 8-0 takes Bard off the contender list but still leaves Union a question mark as to how they will fare against the better LL teams. 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: LaPaz on September 29, 2014, 04:19:57 PM
After watching the RPI v Skidmore game a week ago I have to disagree that RPI is the better side. RPI is more solid on the backline but have nothing going forward except Koziel and Gunderson. Dewald is very solid in net but you get the feeling against better teams if RPI falls behind they have little to no chance of getting back in the game. Skidmore has more weapons with Beek and the two dangerous boys from Nigeria. I thought Skidmore had better chances in the game and if they had finished them they could have won the game.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on September 30, 2014, 04:52:19 PM
LaPaz--I agree that on paper Skidmore is the more dangerous side and actually looked more dangerous against RPI than the statistics show.  Be that as it may, they are in real trouble.  Assuming they don't make it 3 years in a row without a defeat by SLU, they can't lose another LL game.  I don't think you can get into the LL playoffs with 9 teams and 4 losses.  Statistically it is possible but not likely.  If Skidmore doesn't it will be a frustrating 4 years for an excellent group of seniors--no regular league championships, no LL tourney championships, one LL tourney appearance, and no NCAA bids.   
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on October 06, 2014, 07:46:11 PM
Skidmore is dangerous indeed. Beek's double against Williams shows the young man's quality.
Even at 0-2 who really wants to face Skidmore in a possible elimination game?
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on October 06, 2014, 11:27:18 PM
Have to get there first. Quality Williams win follows a mediocre performance at home in a league contest. Three teams are a lock--SLU, RPi, and Vassar after three very efficient and effective performances. Coach Jennings and his staff already deserve coaching staff of the year accolades given how they have developed at least 4 impact freshmen and utilized a total team approach for scoring. Beek also clearly deserves offensive player of the year honors.  5 teams now vying for one playoff spot with Union on the verge of joining Bard looking in.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on October 10, 2014, 01:55:48 PM
RPI is in.
Despite being at 2-1, they have already played SLU and Skidmore.
They should be able to get 3 wins the rest of the way.

SLU is also in good position for a ll tourney spot

Vassar at 3-0 are also in.

That means there is one spot up for grabs after three games played.
Union,Skidmore,RIT,Clarkson and Hobart are all fighting for one spot.
The list should dwindle to 3 teams after this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on October 21, 2014, 01:00:42 AM
Down to two teams now fighting for the last spot, Hobart and Skidmore.  End of year awards are already pretty much a lock unless a dark horse makes a tremendous end of year push: OPOY-Beek, DPOY-Copeland, Coaching Staff-Vassar; Rookie-Okoye.  It is conceivable that two LL teams make the dance--SLU and RPI.  However, if one fails to make the finals it could be like last year with only one LL team getting in.  The 3 and 4 spot teams will have too many, or too ugly of losses to receive an invite unless they win the LL Tourney.  What a roller coaster ride for Coach Taylor: beat your mentor and an undefeated team in league on Friday and be on the losing end of Bard's first ever LL win on Saturday.  That's why they play the games.     
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: lastguyoffthebench on October 21, 2014, 09:46:21 AM

With Rochester and SIT underperforming this year, RPI should be ahead of both.  SIT needs to win the E8 this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2014, 11:47:47 AM
I still believe that if the Skidmore boys come to play they are a really tough out. However, like some talented Nescac teams Skidmore(especially the talented Beek) do not get up for every game. Their defense has some holes but that is an NCAA team for sure with some of those weapons.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2014, 12:04:58 PM
They were an NCAA team as well last year but did not get an invite.
Unfortunately if they lose to SLU, they are likely out of the League Tourney with no chance of making the dance.

They do know however that this is a game they can win.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2014, 12:12:30 PM
Yeah I really felt the winner of that RPI v Skidmore game should have gotten in over Miserecordia.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2014, 01:58:21 PM
I am not so sure Skidmore would be eliminated with a loss to SLU. They will beat Union and Bard and finish 4-3-1. Hobart does not have definite wins at RIT and at home to Clarkson. Hobart could finish 3-2-3. Not sure if the Liberty League uses win % or total points like Nescac.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on October 25, 2014, 11:29:26 PM
Liberty League uses total points, followed by head-to-head, followed by who did best against the top teams in descending order which is why Union lost out to Vassar last year with the same number of points and a tie head-to-head.  After this weekend's contests SLU has No.1 locked and RPI has No.2 locked so they will be playing at home.  If Hobart beats RIT it is in and has the 3rd or 4th seed depending on what the other teams do.  If Vassar beats Bard or Union they are in.  Skidmore gets in only if they win out and Hobart loses to or ties RIT, or Vassar doesn't get a win in either of their last two games.  Union has a mathematical possibility as did Texas Tech today before TCU dropped 82 points on them.  RPI's win today probably gets them a NCAA bid if they make the LL final and similarly for SLU, although it is possible that SLU could get in with an upset loss in the semis.  Whoever 3 and 4 are will have to win the tournament to secure a bid. IMHO     
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on October 27, 2014, 06:25:20 PM
Skidmore are not done until they are done.
They cans till beat anyone in the league, but now they may not get the chance.
I am sure Hobart understands this.
Luckily for the Statesmen  they just have to win and they are in.
RPI is quite a program, winning is starting to become a habit, even when they play below their standards.
They will host the opening round of the Tourney after being picked to not make the Tournament by the pre-season Coaches poll.
Vassar are always tough and it seems always manage to make the conference tournament.
Unfortunately for them, anything short of a win could make the dance impossible.
Union's year was 2013 it seems in hindsight.
I predicted Clarkson would shock a few people which they did, just didn't think they would lose to Bard.
In 2015  Bard will shock a few people.

Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2014, 05:55:49 PM
RPI down 1-0 at the half at Keene St. Keene St are an athletic team but nowhere near the talent they used to have. An absolute downpour up in Keene. RPI really have no wiggle room right now and needs to somehow get a result here.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2014, 06:13:15 PM
Keene St up 2-0 now. RPI looks really flat.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on October 30, 2014, 12:15:03 PM
Still think RPI is in if they can beat Vassar twice in one year.
Last year they were unable to do it and missed the  NCAA as a result.

Vassar will have to win the whole thing in order to advance.
They have lost to some very good teams (Stevens/Oneonta/RPI) but still counts as losses.

Union is now mathematically out of contention for the tournament.

Hobart is playing now for its legacy as a top conference team. They cannot afford to miss the conference tourney for yet another year in a row.

Skidmore looked deflated after losing to SLU at home, do they have one more push in them?

Clarkson/Bard can take away positives from the season as they knew they were in a rebuilding process during pre-season.
RIT is simply too enigmatic to assess.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on October 30, 2014, 08:19:20 PM
RPI faces an uphill battle. They need to beat Vassar and hopefully bunker in against SLU and get a draw. They really need Brockport and Cortland and even UR to slip up
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on November 01, 2014, 09:48:15 PM
I agree with Mr. Right--which makes sense if he is Mr. Right--RPI needs to beat Vassar or they likely drop out of at-large consideration.  Will 2013 repeat itself and RPI lay an egg at home?  Williams and Skidmore losses hurt RPI's strength of schedule and place the quality of those results in question (Williams actually totally dominated RPI except on the scoreboard).  As for Skidmore, I know there is a lot of respect for them on this board but in four years, with two top quality offensive players and a quality keeper, they have only gotten into the LL tourney once, and never to the dance.  They could win two of the top LL awards this year while having a losing LL record.  Likewise, same situation for Union--4 years, one LL tourney appearance, no dance.  Next year likely will be more of the same with SLU's depth and quality of underclassmen, Hobart's bounty of young talent, and Vassar's group of impact freshmen. 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on November 01, 2014, 11:31:02 PM
With the regular season in the books, I revisited the predictions made during preseason and noticed that Saint of Old and deutschfan both picked the top 6 to perfection, with the official LL preseason poll of head coaches netting 5 of the top 6 (see below):

Place. Team, Points
1. St. Lawrence, 62.5
2. Skidmore, 53.5
3. Union, 43
4. Hobart, 41
5. RPI, 40
6. Vassar, 36
7. RIT, 25
8. Clarkson, 15
9. Bard, 8

RPI and Vassar both exceeded the coaches' expectations, while Skidmore and Union did not accomplish as much as the coaches anticipated they would.  There is reason for optimism for next year for most of the teams in the league, as most of the teams received strong contributions from newcomers.  I would expect Skidmore and RPI to feel the effects of graduation most strongly.  I am getting ahead of myself, though, as the playoffs await...
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2014, 08:51:14 AM
Lucky guesses I assure you :)

This is shaping up to be quite the conference tournament.
Vassar at this point is expected to be in the conference final 4. They are a team on the rise and have been for the better part of the last decade. They have played some good competition this year in preparation for this test against RPI. Biggest obstacle for them is that RPI is coming in with a sense of vengeance despite defeating Vassar already this season. Last year Vassar ended RPI's season, and the senior captains wont want to go out like that in back to back years.

RPI has earned regional and national respect for their consistent play and strong character. They seem to just grind out wins. They will be ready for the semi final especially after losing their last game of the regular season.
Courage has a price, and since both these teams  played a tough non-conference schedule a loss here will mean the end of the road for 2014.

Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2014, 08:56:38 AM
I thought Skidmore ended RPI's season last year. I predict RPI will grind out a result somehow. 0-0 in PK's..
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2014, 09:40:00 AM
You are correct.  Skidmore it was.

I think RPI will have just enough to  prevail.

Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2014, 11:01:11 AM
I will be watching the game at 7pm. I wish RPI would zoom their video stream camera in more so you could see the action better. The way it is now everyone looks like peanuts
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2014, 11:36:16 AM
I grudgingly agree with the RPI pick.  RPI has strong senior leadership and experience while Vassar has been relying on youth and exuberance.  Neither team has an explosive forward  and both look to generate offense from the back and midfield.  Vassar's ball movement is better while in the mid and front third RPI is physically stronger.  Vassar's worst results have been playing on turf.  They were demolished by Kean and Stevens.  Their best result on turf was against Skidmore, but in that game Skidmore played the first half without Beek or it likely would have been a different result.  RPI played a great second half in Poughkeepsie after a lackluster first half where they could have easily been down 2-0.  I see this game similarly, RPI holds on in the first half and grinds it out in the second but Vassar's freshmen are impervious to the pressure of the situation as they have 3 years more to play while RPI's seniors are playing to delay the end of their college careers.     
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on November 07, 2014, 10:56:05 AM
Big game tomorrow.
I hope both RPI and SLU make good runs in the dance regardless of the outcome.
It is very important to play good competition heading into the dance. Ditto for Cortland and Oneonta.
RPI's fire power is under-rated and they have a free kick specialist wearing the #7 shirt.
This will be a game where SLU's #7 might have to prove his worth and carry the offensive load going forward for this team.
Both squads have good senior leadership who will get the boys up for this one.

Last time these 2 met in a Conference Final in 2010 It was SLU Freshman Andrew Bednarsky who sealed the win with a great goal past RPI Legend GK Penny.
In 2012 Conference Semi Final the tables were turned and it was RPI the home side that got by on Penalties and went on to take the conference crown.

This game could be an instant classic as the above mentioned two were.
Great game for the neutral to watch (Will be webcasted for free on Sandy).
Tough game for us partisans!
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on November 08, 2014, 04:56:26 AM
I caught a good bit of both semifinals.  Hobart had clearly improved since their first trip to SLU, but it seemed pretty clear to me that the only way they were going to win the game was through PKs.  RPI blew open an even, deadlocked game in the last 30 minutes with their veterans leading the way.  I think SLU is clearly the better team, but scores have a way of tightening up come tournament time (witness the semifinal with Hobart).  Nevertheless, I think our friend Saint of Old will be breathing easier after a 2-0 SLU victory.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: stlawus on November 08, 2014, 08:46:50 PM
SLU takes their second straight LL Championship with a 1-0 win over RPI.  Good match start to finish.  RPI forced Houston to make a couple great saves, but other than that SLU controlled much of the match.  Held a substantial shot advantage as well as most of the possession.  Superb goal from captain Mark Provost coming off a great run from Austin Roney.  Saints should have home field advantage for the first and second round. 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on November 10, 2014, 02:54:45 PM
UAA-4, Centennial-3, NESCAC-3, etc.....LL-1.  For a second year in a row the committee has dissed the LL.  RPI's throwaway non-conference game before the tournament kills them.  The committee should have viewed that game for what it was.  Rochester gets in with 5 losses including Morrisville State and a Clarkson tie.  I don't get it.  I also don't get the LL awards demonstrating that none of my predictions were right.  Will save that for another post.   
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 10, 2014, 03:07:15 PM
RPI had no regionally ranked wins but I hear you. Dewald and the seniors must be bumming. I do not think the Keene game hurt them but not beating Brockport might have done them in
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on November 10, 2014, 08:30:08 PM
Did the NESCAC deserve two at-large berths and the LL none?
We might soon find out.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 10, 2014, 08:35:30 PM
Had RPI beaten Williams or tied Oneonta and beaten Brockport this would all be for naught but in all honesty Williams dominated them and they were lucky to get a draw. I did not see them against Oneonta or Brockport. When I watched them earlier in the year against Skidmore, I thought Skidmore was the better side and should have won that game. This was not RPI circa 2012. They were just a tad offensively challenged this year
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Golden_Fan on November 10, 2014, 08:58:45 PM
RPI were lucky to tie against brockport as well. I believe they were out shot 18-6 and brockport missed several easy scoring chances
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 10, 2014, 09:01:23 PM
Golden Fan can you give me any assessment you have on Brockport. Key players? style? etc
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: stlawus on November 10, 2014, 10:31:27 PM
Going off what I saw from the game SLU played Brockport, they play an open fast paced game.  Their CF is pretty fast and I remember them trying to release him on lots of runs.  We were unfortunate to lose that game, had 10 players out due to injury and still outshot them.  Mis-kick in OT from the RB and their CF corralled it and took it in uncontested. 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Golden_Fan on November 10, 2014, 10:57:48 PM
They generally play direct but can knock the ball around at times. Their set pieces are key for them as thats how they have scored many of their goals. Their forward #23 is a really good in the air, I believe 8 of his 13 goals have come from headers. Their second leading score #10 has scored from several set pieces and will shoot from distance. They also have several good one vs one players both offensively and defensively. From a defensive stand point they are susceptible to the counter as they push numbers forward and this leads to a very open and fast paced game. Since they have had so many OT games I would assume they are well conditioned. If they can stay organized I think they might be able to make it past the second round for the first time in a while
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on November 11, 2014, 08:11:11 AM
Former National Champs.
First ever National Champions.
You cannot sleep on Brockport, if nothing else, they know how to grind out games and play good defense.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2014, 09:47:01 AM
are they a big group? average size? speed?  The way you described them it sounds like a great game against Bowdoin with the winner being able to challenge Brandeis
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Golden_Fan on November 11, 2014, 10:10:07 AM
from their roster online they have 12 kids 6 ft or over, their main forward is 6'4 and one of their starting defenders is 6'3. They definitely have more size than they did in 2011. I would say they are a pretty quick team and I think they would have to be with their style of play
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on November 11, 2014, 10:17:01 AM
They can hurt you.
The SUNYAC I think is a bit more direct than the liberty league (Obviously I am generalizing).
They will play the ball around and have the speed to hurt you as well.
What did not kill them (losing an at-large bid) made them stronger, that is playing 13 games into OT this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2014, 10:19:10 AM
Yes thanks guys it sounds like they have the style and size to maybe get out of this 4 team pod. We shall see. 7:30pm on Saturday night should be hovering around 32* with wind in Waltham,MA.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Golden_Fan on November 11, 2014, 10:37:13 AM
I would agree that they are more direct. I feel that they are less direct in years past though and this year I have seen more teams try to knock the ball around a bit more
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on November 16, 2014, 03:48:47 PM
As the lone LL team in the field, SLU represented the league very well, but, alas, it was not to be.  SLU showed why they are deserving of their strong reputation.  With a constant influx of new talent and a bevy of skilled and athletic players returning, they will be back next year atop the league and, with better luck, a trip deep into the tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on December 12, 2014, 05:57:39 PM
Well for all of you who thought I was out to lunch when I made my LL POY predictions last month as least the NSCAA has vindicated me.  I predicted Copeland as Defensive POY and Beek as Offensive POY and both were named All-Americans today, and deservedly so.  This is not a knock on the actual LL recipients, but Copeland and Beek are a notch above.  As for my other picks, I still believe Andy Jennings at Vassar deserved COY.  Even though Chris Taylor at Clarkson beat him, and Taylor's squad played at a much higher level than in previous years, Vassar obtained the third seed on the backs of four freshman having lost their only returning All-LL player for the year due to injury.  St. Lawrence also had injuries but their depth is phenomenol as shown by the large number of All-LL and All-Region players this year.  Happy Holidays.   
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on December 12, 2014, 06:30:15 PM
well deserved for Beek. I have been a big fan since his days in the preps
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on December 13, 2014, 09:37:50 PM
In Beek and Bakewell, Skidmore has some giant shoes to fill next year.  Okoye appears to be well on his way to becoming the next superstar for the Thoroughbreds.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on December 14, 2014, 05:56:59 PM
Skidmore will stay competitive no doubt but will not have that go to guy to get goals against good teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on August 10, 2015, 02:05:17 PM
With about 10 days until the athletes return to school it is about time to crank up the Liberty League board again.  Although most of the teams haven't posted their newcomers yet some things haven't changed--St. Lawrence looks incredibly strong and Union has the softest non-conference schedule in the league. 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on August 10, 2015, 06:51:01 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 10, 2015, 02:05:17 PM
With about 10 days until the athletes return to school it is about time to crank up the Liberty League board again.

I was thinking the same thing.  Saint of Old got the thread started at about this time last year.  I'll get one going for this year in a moment.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 14, 2015, 12:23:28 PM
Give me Liberty...

A very tough conference.
Unlike some above, I really don't think the boys from Canton will have an easy season.
Changing a coach after a quarter of a century will have an effect on any program.
New Coach has a more offensive approach, but still likes to play soccer.

Like the Williams boyz, the Saints are lucky enough to have someone at the head who has climbed the ultimate mountain with the team in a different role.

RPI should be good. They are losing two seniors (one who was a leader up top and another from the back) who were all-time greats for their program. Whoever inherits the #7 shirt will have big shoes to fill. A Program that is on the cusp of greatness, similar to Vassar, and has been for a long time. Underclass men will have to step up, but Coach Clinton could have a big year.

Vassar, as mentioned above has been a good team for a while now, but want to take the next step. To do so they will have to outplay RPI. One of the few teams that has proven they can win in Canton when it gets cold.

Hobart has to decide this year if it wants to be a Regional powerhouse, or a mid table team in their conference.
They made a great step making the conference tourney last year after a tough start to the season, but will have to continue that progress with teams like Union and RIT looking to take the playoff spot held by the Statesmen.

RIT is the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde of the Liberty League.
Much will depend on their incoming class, but traditionally a team that can beat anyone in the league on their day, but also could lose to anyone as well. This is an important year to take a step for RIT, the pressure is on to move up from middle of the pack and really contend for one of those 4 playoff spots.

Union like RIT is a dangerous team, this teams biggest problem has been continuing to play well once the conference portion of the schedule comes around. They are close, and made the conference Tourney a couple years ago, but need consistency to get the respect they are due.

Clarkson begins the season with the reigning conference Coach of the Year at the helm. He will have to earn that title this year as Vassar will be looking to avenge a tough 2014 loss to the Knights. Losing to Bard at home last year was perhaps the lowpoint of the year, and life will be a bit tougher at the back after losing arguably the conference's best sweeper.

Rard as stated above shocked Clarkson and the league last year and almost did the same to Hobart. They will be a better team this year as the rebuilding process continues.




Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on August 14, 2015, 03:03:47 PM
I know you're Saint "of Old," but no one plays with "sweepers" anymore . . .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 15, 2015, 06:27:12 PM
Old habits die hard.

I occasionally still make references to "roaming Linkmen" which still makes sense to some of us have-beens :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 24, 2015, 10:42:13 PM
Back to Saint's analysis, I agree that RIT was a Jeckyll & Hyde team last year and that its freshman class might be an indicator of future success.  RIT posted its 2015 roster and it includes 15 freshmen.  It will be tough to acclimate all that new blood into the RIT system and keep everyone interested.  Still waiting on Bard, RPI, Skidmore, Union and Vassar to post their recruiting classes.  RPI and Skidmore do have big shoes to fill.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on August 24, 2015, 11:12:01 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 24, 2015, 10:42:13 PM
Still waiting on Bard, RPI, Skidmore, Union and Vassar to post their recruiting classes.  RPI and Skidmore do have big shoes to fill.   

I saw these new LL recruits listed on one of the Mass boards:

Derrick Acheampong-FC Blazers-Nobles-Hobart & William Smith Colleges*
Pearse Martin-FC Blazers-Boston Latin-Skidmore*
Jason Miller-FC Blazers-Needham HS-Union College*

I only recall having seen the new Union player in action, and he'll be a fine addition to the Dutchmen.  He's relatively small, but he's quick, dynamic, and very skilled.  He can play multiple positions and brings a high level of intensity to the game. 

With respect to Skidmore, my impression last year was that a window of opportunity was closing.  A strong recruiting class can reopen the window, though!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 27, 2015, 07:25:09 PM
http://www.libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2015/8/27/MSOC_0827151658.aspx

Skidmore Underrated.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 28, 2015, 04:57:57 PM
Can't blame the coaches too much for their ranking of Skidmore.  Last year with an all-region and an all-American as strikers they were pegged to finish 2nd and actually finished 5th with a losing league record.  Once burned twice wary.  If you watch the Skidmore 2015 preview video the vibe is not overwhelmingly optimistic.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 29, 2015, 12:44:30 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 27, 2015, 07:25:09 PM
http://www.libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2015/8/27/MSOC_0827151658.aspx

Skidmore Underrated.




Somebody better let the SID at Clarkson know that 7-10-1 was not "one of the most successful season ever" for Clarkson. They made the 1993 NCAA Final 4. They were a bit over matched in the in 1993 but certainly that has to be better than 7-10-1
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 29, 2015, 02:40:14 PM
Mr. Right strikes again with out of conference knowledge.

Same record got Coach of the Year honors last year.

I will say that Bard will give many ppl, including Clarkson a tough time this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on August 29, 2015, 06:02:30 PM
Yeah, I also found that completely bizarre that someone would describe a 7-10-1 season as "one of the most successful season ever" for Clarkson.  Obviously, you have the Final Four run as their best season, but they had plenty of winning seasons in the 80's and 90's.  Just say their best season in over a decade, perhaps.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 31, 2015, 12:09:37 PM
Although some schools still haven't posted rosters, the 4 top ones have and here are my predictions in order of finish for what they are worth.  Given that they are the same four as last year I know I am not going out on a limb here.
1. SLU--Tested quality in every part of the field except keeper.  Copeland who should have been defensive MVP last year holds down the back; Brundell who had a breakout year joins a SLU of midfielders including Chandler Short who should have been the rookie of the year; and Morgan Smith up top.  Besides goalie only question is whether Smith is fully recovered but most of SLU's offense over the past few years has come from the midfield so it probably doesn't matter.  SLU has the blessing and curse of the weakest schedule of the top four--by far.  They will be undefeated and untested going into league.  If they don't win league their schedule will be a major hindrance with the committee.  What happened to the Rochester fixture?
2.  Hobart--What a difference between the team blown out by Brandeis in the first game and taking SLU to the limit in the LL playoffs.  Serafine came into his own at goalie, and the defense will be very strong again.  Like SLU they have great depth in the midfield and Fox is a quality distributor and goal scorer.  Hobart benefits from its German trip giving it a four game head start on the rest of the teams.  It will be amply tested by Rochester before league.  Even though I see Hobart going second into the playoffs unless they find more offense I see the same result as last year in the first round.
3.  Vassar--Of the four teams that made the playoffs last year Vassar was the least likely playing four freshman and starting a recruited defender as its main forward.  Yet, they gave SLU their only blemish, handily beat Hobart and but for a terrible showing in the semis may have gotten to test SLU again.  Vassar loses one starter, the least of any of the top four.  Warner is a capable goalie, Hess is a terrific defender, and Jennings and Palmer will create many goal chances.  Up top unanimous first-teamer Wiechert comes back for a 5th year after a 2014 pre-season injury.  You can look at the posts about Kramer on the NESCAC board as to how 5th year players perform.  If Vassar can generate goals and their fab freshman continue to contribute, they will be back in the playoffs again.
4.  RPI-- I understand all the polls have them as the second strongest team in the Liberty League and they have been on the NCAA cusp two years in a row.  However, they have big shoes to fill in replacing a defensive player of the year goalie and offensive player of the year midfielder.  At goalie it doesn't look like any of DeWald's successors has any game minutes in the goal.  Similarly, no one in the midfield has the experience or productivity of Koziel.  Gunderson had a great year last year at forward and looked all world in the liberty league semis.  Clinton is a great coach and I commend him for putting Oneonta and Williams on his schedule.  This is a rebuilding year for RPI.       
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 31, 2015, 01:52:20 PM
I have to agree with your assessment on RPI. After watching them a couple times last year and the past few seasons. I feel like DeWald and Koziel were the 2 best players on the field for them. Those are 2 huge losses from a team that really can not afford to lose those players. I feel like they will struggle this season to try to get to .500 overall. Since Clinton arrived at RPI they have been a very tough team to break down but have not had pure finishers since their 2008 team which bowed out in the 1st round of the NCAA's to an extremely tough Stevens team. That 2008 matchup between RPI and Stevens was a great NCAA game at Babson and RPI was very skilled and athletic. Recently , they struggle to score against the better teams they play. They looked rather pedestrian in that 2014 Liberty League final against SLU and I would guess without looking at the box score might have had 3 shots all game with none of them serious threats. Oneonta and Williams dominated them last year but they did get a draw at Williams. If Clinton could get a couple recruits from the rich soccer history of the Shenendahowa / Capital region from which his father was the legendary coach / club director / guru they would be able to really compete without having to sit 10 deep against the better teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 02, 2015, 05:20:45 PM
Just want to applaud Union on its big win against Albany College of Pharmacy: 9 goals; 2 goals less than 30 seconds apart; and 8th goal scored in second half by last year's leading scorer who is still inexplicably on the field at 7-0 and still shooting.  Wouldn't it have been more helpful for Union's NCAA chances to schedule Albany for a scrimmage and Oneonta for an early game rather than vice versa? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 02, 2015, 07:57:39 PM
Cant blame the kid for scoring, or wanting to score.
Coach might want to protect his top scorer in a game that has already been won though.
Ask SLU, no fun to lose top scorer in the first game of the year :(


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 03, 2015, 08:55:37 AM
Year after year we bash Jeff Guinn for his schedule and year after year it is warranted. Union is first and foremost a Hockey and Football school and they do not care enough about soccer to force him to do anything. It must come from the players and unfortunately the parents.

Just for a reference point the Williams JV team regularly schedules the Albany College of Pharmacy and beats them 5-0 or 6-1.

We also will start to monitor Skidmore's schedule as that is looking weaker and weaker each year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 03, 2015, 09:22:11 AM
First game shows a lot about SLU's depth.  Brundell and Short don't play (I take it by Saint's comment that at least one is injured), Smith doesn't start and they still cruise.  I also agree that it is tough to put players on the field and tell them just to pass the ball around when the score reaches 7-0 and it is on the coach when he has first stringers in when a game has gotten out of hand. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 04, 2015, 10:11:59 AM
Fan, your observations are accurate.
Up top at least, St. Lawrence has not been this deep since 1999.

Unfortunately, the nasty injury bug that has been around for the last 1/2 dozen years is still there.

Last 3 major stars have suffered agonizing and bad injuries:
Sam Demello/Gorman and now our #10.

The Rowan game this Saturday should tell us a lot about just how deep the squad is.

Meanwhile, in other news, seems like the Entire Liberty League, except Clarkson had a good first day of the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 07, 2015, 09:09:54 PM
I don't want to get a reputation for grousing but...  I was happy to see Bard make an impact this first week especially on offense.  Given the lack of Bard performer of the week honorees over the history of the Liberty League I thought this was the perfect time to anoint their leading scorer for the week who had 4 goals and an assist in 2 games.  He also happens to be the leading scorer in the whole league with most of the the other eligible bachelors having played three games.  Much to my chagrin, but not to my surprise after last year's biggest honors did not go to the best offensive or defensive players in the league but rather to two RPI players who, while quite good, were not All-American caliber players, this week's honor goes to an RPI player with 3 goals and an assist in 3 games who had the 7th best statistics in the Liberty League for the week.  The RPI player would be the third leading scorer on either Bard or Vassar.  The only statistic he has an edge in is game winning goals, the most unpredictable and overrated measure of performance.  In RPI's case it wasn't like they needed last minute heroics, or that the team's only goal in a game came from one player.   RPI won 5-0, 3-0, and 3-0 and it was just dame fortune that determined which goal scorer hit the winning goal.  My pick for offensive performer of the week is a striker from Bard who may not be in the running again for this honor given the overall quality in the Liberty League and the cream puff pre-season schedules some of the teams have put together. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2015, 09:17:13 PM
Good God please...their opponents might be the worst that D3 soccer has to offer. Lyndon State, Sage, Cobleskill and Southern VT...Kinda looks like an out of conference schedule for Middlebury
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 07, 2015, 09:25:14 PM
I wont say much about Offensive or Defensive player of the year in 2014.
I will say that those RPI Boys deserved it. They were the backbone of their programs, and kept their team winning in a tough league.

My quibble is that a certain Coach who retired after 25 years and a Hall of Fame career did not get some votes for COY after winning the league and tourney double in back to back years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2015, 09:28:38 PM
Really.....Who won it? Adam Clinton or Andy Jennings?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 07, 2015, 09:37:51 PM
Chris Taylor at Clarkson.  Nice job for his first year but I have to agree with Saint that Bob Durocher should have been in the mix given what he was able to accomplish with a bunch of injuries and Jennings should have been given injuries and his development of 4 freshman.  Thanks Right for reminding me how weak RPI's first three games were.  I would have mentioned that a Union player also has better stats but I don't count the Albany Pharmacy game. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerfan111 on September 08, 2015, 03:31:05 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 03, 2015, 09:22:11 AM
First game shows a lot about SLU's depth.  Brundell and Short don't play (I take it by Saint's comment that at least one is injured), Smith doesn't start and they still cruise.  I also agree that it is tough to put players on the field and tell them just to pass the ball around when the score reaches 7-0 and it is on the coach when he has first stringers in when a game has gotten out of hand.

I have noticed that there are handful of guys that played significant minutes that haven't played yet this year. Both Short and Brandell are on the roster but haven't played. Are they hurt?

What bout these guys though that started games last year that aren't on the roster? Did they move elsewhere?

Sean Houston
Manny Collins
Seyefe Brouk

Also, what about Seyefe Brouk? He's been a key cog in the middle of the field for the past 3 years but he isn't even listed on the roster.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 08, 2015, 04:03:58 PM
Quote from: soccerfan111 on September 08, 2015, 03:31:05 PM
I have noticed that there are handful of guys that played significant minutes that haven't played yet this year. Both Short and Brandell are on the roster but haven't played. Are they hurt?

What bout these guys though that started games last year that aren't on the roster? Did they move elsewhere?

Sean Houston
Manny Collins
Seyefe Brouk

Also, what about Seyefe Brouk? He's been a key cog in the middle of the field for the past 3 years but he isn't even listed on the roster.

Thank you for bringing this up.  I had been meaning to ask Saint of Old about his status, as I thought Brouk had another season left.  He didn't get the accolades that some of his more decorated teammates received (holding center midfielders rarely do!), but I thought that he was one of the unsung heroes of the Saints the past couple of years. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 08, 2015, 09:56:43 PM
Top scorer from last season is hurt unfortunately.
A Benz of a player.

Over the years the injury bug has hit the Saints hard.
Hopefully the freshman class will help.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerfan111 on September 10, 2015, 10:02:27 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 08, 2015, 09:56:43 PM
Top scorer from last season is hurt unfortunately.
A Benz of a player.

Over the years the injury bug has hit the Saints hard.
Hopefully the freshman class will help.

So that would mean Brandell is out. What about Short and the other guys (especially Brouk)?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 10, 2015, 11:40:08 AM
Many of the Saints have nagging injuries and will not make their debut until later in the year (hopefully). Better not to push anyone back too soon.
As for the holding mid of the last few seasons (One of my all-time favorite Saints), he had a serious injury last year that kept him out for almost half the year. he battled back like a star, but will be taking the year off this season to fully recuperate.
I really hope he comes back and finish his career strong next season.

The team might have a shot back in the 2011 season before being torn apart by injuries, it has been a constant problem since then it seems.

The positive is there is a chance for younger players to stake their claim early in the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on September 10, 2015, 12:23:36 PM
Brouk isn't injured. He can't play for reasons unrelated to soccer. I don't want to explain any further though since it's not for me to share.

SLU is looking good this year but I can't help but think they could have a little bit more of a challenge in the out of conference schedule. No more UofR? It could hurt them later on in the season.

Union always plays cupcakes out of conference which ends up hurting them come LL play and onwards should they make it. Same old story year after year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 10, 2015, 02:05:30 PM
I know wayyy more than you might think Sandy.
What I said was the young man had a bad injury last year, will not play this year, and is a great Saint.
All of which is factual and correct info. Enough said.

Also, it is less important which schools are on the schedule than the competition in the squad.
The toughest battles must take place at practice for any team that has big ambitions.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 10, 2015, 02:22:19 PM
Wasn't the DeMello injury a dirty play from a Union player in 2012? Because I remember when Williams beat St.Lawrence in the NCAA;s in 2012 DeMello was injured. I felt bad for that kid because he was the heart and soul of that team and just a great player to watch. Williams and Trinity CT recruited him HARD but Williams could not get him in, Trinity CT did but DeMello chose St.Lawrence and the rest is history. I believe he from the Western MA area so most figured he would choose to stay close to home just down I-91 in Hartford but it was not to be. He would of elevated Trinity to another level as they got a Pool C in 2011 and would have gone deep IMO that year with him.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on September 10, 2015, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 10, 2015, 02:05:30 PM
I know wayyy more than you might think Sandy.
What I said was the young man had a bad injury last year, will not play this year, and is a great Saint.
All of which is factual and correct info. Enough said.

****. I was thinking of someone else. You're right.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 10, 2015, 11:16:09 PM
Quote from: Sandy on September 10, 2015, 12:23:36 PM
Brouk isn't injured. He can't play for reasons unrelated to soccer. I don't want to explain any further though since it's not for me to share.

SLU is looking good this year but I can't help but think they could have a little bit more of a challenge in the out of conference schedule. No more UofR? It could hurt them later on in the season.

Union always plays cupcakes out of conference which ends up hurting them come LL play and onwards should they make it. Same old story year after year.





I have to agree with you. St.Lawrence schedule is not as challenging as it once was. They are playing more than half the SUNYAC w/o Oneonta St. Curious as to whose decision was to drop the SLU v UR game....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 11, 2015, 12:51:19 PM
Staying on the injury topic for a moment, there have been a rash of injuries at St. Lawrence and many other D3 schools that have suspended or terminated the careers of many top notch players.  The root causes are many but I throw out the following primary ones for debate: 1) General wear and tear sustained from K through high school as the number of practice and game hours before college has gone up dramatically; 2) Lack of formal education of players as to situations that are prime candidates for injuries, especially knee ligaments; 3) Referees who are loath to send off players for serious contact fouls as opposed to dissent or retaliation (years ago refs would pull reds automatically for unclean tackles from behind but no more); 4) Coaches who refuse to penalize players who create dangerous situations in practices or scrimmages; and 5) The increasing competitiveness of D3 soccer where many players now get little actual game time thus increasing their desire to make an impact in practice--these are players who generally have never been on the bench before college making their general level of frustration very high especially first years who have been told they will inherit the earth in the recruiting process.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 11, 2015, 02:20:45 PM
Personally, players today are just "softer" than they were 20 years ago. I understand season ending injuries and concussions but more and more players are missing games for reasons that 20 years ago would of been unheard of.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: WilltheMan on September 11, 2015, 02:31:32 PM
I think the players today move faster, train harder and the collisions are more violent.  I was a pretty fair player, not sure I could move like these young men.  I also agree the late tackling has to stop, that's on the ref's and coaches.  I can remember our coach benching one of our better players for a tackle from behind.  He did it very publicly to diffuse the situation and set an example.  This was at the D1 level.  Good luck with that happening today.  I also think a more limited sub rule would curb some of the "sprint" until you drop tactics that are employed.  Leads to poor play and more injuries.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 11, 2015, 02:49:25 PM
C'mon,

20 years ago you would have guys playing an entire season with torn ACL's
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 11, 2015, 05:24:28 PM
Skidmore down 2-0 with 25' to play against Potsdam despite having more shots and a ton of corners.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 11, 2015, 06:49:57 PM
Players who are all-region or all-American level athletes don't get there by being soft.  I don't believe Doctors, insurance carriers, or the colleges will let students play with torn ACLs or concussions, and this is a good thing.  Some students who aren't getting playing time may exaggerate an injury to justify their inaction but not the top level players that are going down. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 12, 2015, 07:14:14 AM
hmmm so every All-American and All-region players are tough kids...I don't think so..Some are for sure but some great players are so skilled it doesn't matter that they are soft. My point is that teams nowadays have 1-2 players on the team who are tough and get banged up and not need a trainer after every game. Those 1-2 players are the behind the scenes GLUE guys that can spark teams with a massive tackle or whatever, usually not the best or most skilled. Kind of like the 4th line in hockey. I have watched for a long time and I am starting to see kids pulling out of tackles, not throwing their bodies around and some are thinking about an "injury" before it happens. I guarantee if you question trainers to compare today to 20 years ago they would tell you they are on the field and locker rooms an hour later each day.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 13, 2015, 10:28:04 PM
Two weeks into the season and what have we learned?  With four unbeaten teams (RPI, SLU, Union, and Bard), the cream (SLU and RPI) has quickly risen to the top along with a pair of teams that may not do quite as well once the league games begin.  Among the five teams with at least one defeat, Hobart's defeat of Rochester and Vassar's tie with Oneonta are noteworthy.  Each of the remaining teams (Skidmore, Clarkson, and RIT) has shown signs of life, so there is every hope that league play will be fiercely competitive.  The third and fourth playoff spots appear to be completely up for grabs!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 14, 2015, 10:05:49 AM
Great first two weeks of soccer.
Both the liberty League and SUNYAC are making strong starts.
1-1 ties between SLU-Geneseo and Vassar-Oneonta are signs of great competition.

It will be tough for anyone to break into last seasons Tournament 4 I think.
Which is a shame, because it means two good teams wont have a post season.
If anyone can, it will be 2013 Finalists Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 14, 2015, 01:04:40 PM
That Hobart v Geneseo State game next weekend is looking like a big one come November if Hobart can get a result
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
http://www.saintsathletics.com/sports/2013/9/3/MSOC_0903132907.aspx?path=msoc

SLU v. Much improved Potsdam Bears.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2015, 04:20:57 PM
Thanks for the scoop, Saint!  Just as I tuned in, Potsdam scored on the header off the corner to go up 1-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2015, 04:21:28 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
http://www.saintsathletics.com/sports/2013/9/3/MSOC_0903132907.aspx?path=msoc

SLU v. Much improved Potsdam Bears.



I know Copeland out, but I have no clue as to why Toshack is resting all of the starters. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 15, 2015, 04:24:01 PM
How about giving some PROPS to SLU ground crew...Year after year the best maintained field anywhere....Potsdam has been an unusual surprise so far..Lets see if the game stays this way
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2015, 05:29:12 PM
Extremely complacent, and dare I say arrogant gameplan by Coach Toshack today.  Pretty evident he expected this game to be a walk over, and is being paid dearly for it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2015, 05:47:28 PM
One of the worst SLU performances I've seen in a long time.  Take nothing away from Potsdam, Coach Parker gave Coach Toshack a much needed reality check.  What on earth does he think he's doing by resting starters against a good Potsdam side.  Arrogant. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2015, 08:53:24 PM
First and foremost, big win for Potsdam.
I knew this would be a challenge for St. Lawrence.
Potsdam is a good team. Coach Parker has turned this program completely around.

A few points that must be given consideration.
1) Several, almost all of the big boyz have had an early loss this season.
2) Although this was Potsdam's first win v. SLU in 10 years, the games are always a bit tricky and/or weird. They scored first against us every single time I played them, and that is going back a while now.
3) I don't see it so much as resting "starters" so much as figuring out who the starters are. To win a National Championship or to compete for one you need atleast 16-18 starters. What better time for a Coach to find out what he has than early in the season.
4) I trust Coach Tosh. He knows what he wants to accomplish and the reasons for his decisions. Personally I would have started a different team, but again, I trust the man.
5) Saint Nation should not be too disappointed, this game was played without all three captains (out injured). Growing pains my friends growing pains, this loss will payoff for the Saints big time!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2015, 09:08:27 PM
If there was a time for them to lose I would rather it have been today anyways.  If I recall correctly Potsdam played Oneonta to overtime last year.  There's a tough stretch of games coming up against Cortland, Buff State and Plattsburgh.  Hopefully today's game was enough of a litmus test to work out the kinks.  I have a feeling a few of those teams are going to park the bus like Potsdam did. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 15, 2015, 11:16:11 PM
I don't want to be too much of a Debbie downer here, but SLU has just tied the 87th ranked team and lost to the 124th ranked team based on the Hero sports rankings.  Whether you view those rankings as credible or not, SLU is underperforming against lesser teams which is a recipe for NCAA selection committee disaster.  Skidmore's two-goal win over Williams puts everyone on notice that the league schedule is going to be a wild ride. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 15, 2015, 11:36:11 PM
The committee does not care about a few blemishes against weaker teams. They care more about your record against better teams(Record v Ranked opponents) which is one thing the committee does right IMO.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 15, 2015, 11:46:26 PM
What if you don't play any better teams?  It is not like SLU followed Brandeis out to Trinity or made a shorter trip to a upper echelon NESCAC school. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 16, 2015, 08:38:04 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 15, 2015, 11:36:11 PM
The committee does not care about a few blemishes against weaker teams. They care more about your record against better teams(Record v Ranked opponents) which is one thing the committee does right IMO.

Do they actually not care about a slip up or two? This kind of goes back to my point yesterday with John Carroll, Lycoming and RPI. If this was the case then Dickinson and maybe Rochester or Salisbury wouldn't have gotten in and 2 of these 3 teams would have. RPI lost against the top 25 teams like St. Lawrence(2x) and Oneonta but played a pretty tough schedule. Lycoming beat top 15 Rochester lost to #1 Messiah(2x) and tied another NCAA tournament team on the road. John Carroll had 3 losses in their first 6 games which included 2 tournaments they participated in. Then rallied off 14 wins in a row before losing a heart breaker in their conference final. All 3 had a slip up or two either by a bad loss or maybe a tie that should have been a win. It seems like the committee faulted all 3 of these teams for one slip up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on September 16, 2015, 09:59:16 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 16, 2015, 08:38:04 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 15, 2015, 11:36:11 PM
The committee does not care about a few blemishes against weaker teams. They care more about your record against better teams(Record v Ranked opponents) which is one thing the committee does right IMO.

Do they actually not care about a slip up or two? This kind of goes back to my point yesterday with John Carroll, Lycoming and RPI. If this was the case then Dickinson and maybe Rochester or Salisbury wouldn't have gotten in and 2 of these 3 teams would have. RPI lost against the top 25 teams like St. Lawrence(2x) and Oneonta but played a pretty tough schedule. Lycoming beat top 15 Rochester lost to #1 Messiah(2x) and tied another NCAA tournament team on the road. John Carroll had 3 losses in their first 6 games which included 2 tournaments they participated in. Then rallied off 14 wins in a row before losing a heart breaker in their conference final. All 3 had a slip up or two either by a bad loss or maybe a tie that should have been a win. It seems like the committee faulted all 3 of these teams for one slip up.

I largely concur with Mr. Right.  It wasn't the slips ups that cost those teams you list.  The at-large selections can largely be explained by the committee prioritizing SOS and wins vs. ranked teams.  I would contend that losses to ranked teams don't really hurt a team; a lack of wins vs. ranked teams is what does.  It's assumed that teams on the bubble will have some losses to ranked teams, assuming they played ranked teams (if they were beating all their ranked opponents they wouldn't be on the bubble).  The bubble teams that have wins vs. ranked teams and high SOS will get the nod over those that don't.

Rochester had a SOS well over .600 and I believe four wins vs. ranked teams.  Dickinson had a SOS just over .600 and 3 wins vs. ranked teams.  None of the teams left out came close to matching that.  RPI had a decent SOS, but not over .600 and they were winless vs. ranked teams.  Lycoming had a pitiful SOS barely over .500 and only one win vs. ranked teams.  John Carroll had a low SOS and by my count 2 wins vs. ranked teams.  What's not clear is why Salisbury got in with a SOS a little over .550 (higher than JCU and Lyco, lower than RPI) and no wins vs. ranked teams. 

Salisbury may have edged RPI on the basis of 3 ties and one loss vs. ranked teams being better than 3 losses and just one tie, and enough so to compensate for the lower SOS.  The argument for selecting Salisbury over John Carroll is harder to make becuse it's not clear what John Carroll's record vs. ranked teams was considered to be.  Meeting minutes of discussions to revisit and revise the determination of "record vs. ranked opponents" say that Team A's (read John Carroll's) record versus ranked teams dropped from 4-0-0 and 3-1-0 in the published rankings to 0-1-0 in the final unpublished rankings used for at-large selections.  I'm confused by that as I calculate a 2-1-0 record, so I'm not sure if I still don't understand how they are determining this or if the meeting minutes have a typo or the committee goofed, but if indeed they considered John Carroll's record vs. ranked teams to be 0-1-0 in the end, Salisbury, also with zero wins vs. ranked teams, would get the nod on the basis of a higher SOS and three ties vs. ranked teams to none for John Carroll.

All that to say, I firmly believe that it's not the slip-ups that cost those teams as you suggest, but lack of wins vs. ranked teams and moderate to low SOS.  The committee wants tournament teams to regularly play and prove themselves against other top teams, and demonstrate that they can win sometimes.  It's not really about losses as long as there aren't too many of them.

And as to Dickinson's terrible finish to the season, the committee is not tasked with weigthing the final 1/3 or 1/4 of the season greater than the rest of the season.  They may do so as a tie-breaker between teams that on the season as a whole are considered even.  But if one team has a better season-long resume than another team, how they each did down the stretch is irrelavant.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 16, 2015, 11:04:30 AM
I understand that and the process and that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification and info on Salisbury! As for Dickinson what quality wins did they have verse ranked opponents as compared to losses? Lost to Messiah and Muhlenberg (2x), tied F&M. Lost to Swarthmore but don't think they were ranked. Only good wins when you look at it were Haverford, Hopkins who was barely .500 (9-7-2 I think?) and Catholic in their opening game. I feel like the committee should consider how you are playing down the stretch just like they do in college basketball. Why reward a team for not winning a game in the last month (literally the last month) of the regular season when you have other teams with better or similar records that are clicking on all cylinders down the stretch?

Sure they may not weigh the finish over the rest of the season but if you are talking about ranked opponents they all came in that last month and they didn't perform. That's my argument. I don't disagree at all with what you said about SOS and all that makes total sense. I just cant get over why it isn't a big picture look at a team. It seems like they only focus on 3 categories which is SOS, record vs ranked opponents, and historical records(bias)/what conference you are in. Do they consider shut-outs or defensive stats? Home vs Away records? Anything like that if you know off the top of your head? I am just curious because I feel like this year there will be a lot of headaches with top teams losing so early. If the trend keeps going then we will have a lot of average records for historically good teams in good conferences and I am interested to see if they get in.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 16, 2015, 11:10:16 AM
I still think RPI should have gotten in over Dickinson or Salisbury. Just my opinion. And Lycoming or John Carroll should have been considered more than they were. Thank you for all your info though, it is really helpful and clears up things a bit!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on September 16, 2015, 12:03:17 PM
Mid-Atlantic Fan,

A couple points. 

(1) I am not defending the criteria the selection committee is prescribed to use, nor am I defending their application of that criteria and the selections they make.  I am merely suggesting how the committee most likely arrived at their decisions within the framework of the criteria they are tasked with applying.

You raise some good points and considerations.  I also have a variety of concerns and questions about the criteria and the process.  For just one example, I question whether the committee makes any considerations for the difference in quality of ranked opponents.  We all know there can be a big difference between playing the #1 ranked team in a region as opposed to playing the #8 ranked team in a region, and yet the "record vs. ranked teams" in and of itself can't reflect that.  A team could manage a nice 3-0-1 record vs. ranked opponents having only played teams in the bottom half of the regional rankings (not representative of the avg. tournament opponent past the first round) while another team may have played teams from the top half (representative of tournament opponents) and gone 1-2-1.  But that win and tie may be more indicative of that team's chances in the tournament than the other team's 3 wins and 1 tie.  The "record vs. ranked teams" also can't capture the difference between a close fought 1-goal loss, a loss despite being the "better" team, and a loss where you were outplayed, and likewise for wins and ties.

We don't kow how much the committee does or does not dig deeper than the data they have complied and provided to them.  But their selections often give the impression they learn towards formulaic, quantitative decisions, rather than subjective discernment/judgment. 

(2) http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2014/at-large-analysis-and-predictions  If you haven't already read this annual piece on D3soccer.com, it may be helpful for understanding how things work (even if you do not like the way they work).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 16, 2015, 12:49:29 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on September 16, 2015, 12:03:17 PM
Mid-Atlantic Fan,

A couple points. 

(1) I am not defending the criteria the selection committee is prescribed to use, nor am I defending their application of that criteria and the selections they make.  I am merely suggesting how the committee most likely arrived at their decisions within the framework of the criteria they are tasked with applying.

You raise some good points and considerations.  I also have a variety of concerns and questions about the criteria and the process.  For just one example, I question whether the committee makes any considerations for the difference in quality of ranked opponents.  We all know there can be a big difference between playing the #1 ranked team in a region as opposed to playing the #8 ranked team in a region, and yet the "record vs. ranked teams" in and of itself can't reflect that.  A team could manage a nice 3-0-1 record vs. ranked opponents having only played teams in the bottom half of the regional rankings (not representative of the avg. tournament opponent past the first round) while another team may have played teams from the top half (representative of tournament opponents) and gone 1-2-1.  But that win and tie may be more indicative of that team's chances in the tournament than the other team's 3 wins and 1 tie.  The "record vs. ranked teams" also can't capture the difference between a close fought 1-goal loss, a loss despite being the "better" team, and a loss where you were outplayed, and likewise for wins and ties.

We don't kow how much the committee does or does not dig deeper than the data they have complied and provided to them.  But their selections often give the impression they learn towards formulaic, quantitative decisions, rather than subjective discernment/judgment. 

(2) http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2014/at-large-analysis-and-predictions  If you haven't already read this annual piece on D3soccer.com, it may be helpful for understanding how things work (even if you do not like the way they work).

Definitely know you weren't defending the criteria that is why I thanked you for your info that you provided. Didn't think I came across as pointing the finger? Sorry if you took it that way. I will check out the link. I don't think I have been on it yet. Thanks!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2015, 01:54:18 PM
Excellent and detailed post by Weasel...+k....I would guess he understands the criteria better than half of the committee. Now we need to push for him to get in that room and start helping to change the system a bit
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on September 16, 2015, 01:56:10 PM
Didn't take it as finger-pointing, Mid-Atlantic Fan.  Just clarifying in case it wasn't clear.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 16, 2015, 02:12:56 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 16, 2015, 01:54:18 PM
Excellent and detailed post by Weasel...+k....I would guess he understands the criteria better than half of the committee. Now we need to push for him to get in that room and start helping to change the system a bit

Agreed. Very knowledgeable!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 16, 2015, 02:13:33 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on September 16, 2015, 01:56:10 PM
Didn't take it as finger-pointing, Mid-Atlantic Fan.  Just clarifying in case it wasn't clear.

Just making sure! Hard to read people through text sometimes. Just clarifying as well :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 17, 2015, 03:50:43 PM
Did any of you SLU guys catch the Rowan at SLU game? I am trying to get a feel for Rowan this year...Also, how about RPI. Did anyone catch their games with Patterson and Stockton?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on September 17, 2015, 04:26:15 PM
I watched the game online. Rowan didn't play particularly well. It was tied at half but SLU was in control and then went ahead and dominated the rest of the game scoring 4 unanswered. I don't remember them being particularly dangerous either. They might have a few decent half chances though. They hit the crossbar from distance in the first half from outside the box. That was the closest they got though I believe. Their #11 (I think) seemed to be their most dangerous player from what I can recall, which isn't too much.

That's all I can really remember and I may have gotten some of that wrong.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 18, 2015, 01:09:19 PM
Clarkson v. Buff State

This game should tell us a lot about Clarkson.
the league schedule wont be easy, there are 7 legitimate contenders for 4 spots, as I have said since pre-season, I think only Skidmore has the chance of overtaking one of last season's tourney teams... but which one.

SLU v. Cortland

This game should tell us a lot about SLU.
Again, early season injuries has hampered what I think could be a special team.
St. Lawrence rises or falls this year on the strength of its freshman class.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 18, 2015, 01:16:55 PM
What about Hobart? They are quietly taking care of business against some decent competition. I hate the LL tourney as I have been saying for years they should take 6 teams to their conference tournament especially after adding RIT and Bard even though Hamilton left.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 18, 2015, 01:23:01 PM
Mind you I have only seen RPI, Skidmore and SLU on video but my Top 4 are:

SLU
RPI
Hobart
Skidmore

In no particular order. However, I could see one or two of those teams having impressive out of conference records and struggle in conference. I remember Hobart in 2012 or 2011 I cannot remember having a very impressive out of conference resume and record but falling short in conference play and did not even make the conference tournament and subsequently missed out on the NCAA's.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 18, 2015, 01:23:21 PM
As Usual Mr. Right on the ball.

Hobart v. Geneseo  (Tomm @2)

Should tell us about both teams really.
One team (perhaps the winner) will likely dance while the loser might have a tough time depending what happens in the League Tourney.

I think both teams are very similar, trying to get to the top of their respective leagues.
Hobart peaked in '09 and  were considered regional powers atleast.
last few years have not been so kind on them, but making the league playoff last season seems like a sigh of a program once again reaching to new heights.

Totally agree that the League Tournament should be 6 teams.
Really not fair that one of (SLU/Skidmore/Hobart/Vassar/RPI) will be on the outside looking in come November.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 18, 2015, 04:14:45 PM
Days like today show why we are extremely spoiled with the quality of SLU's home broadcasts.  Seems like every away team's broadcast never works. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 18, 2015, 04:30:01 PM
I think SLU's broadcasts are one of the best in D3 along with RPI and Brandeis.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 18, 2015, 05:22:47 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 18, 2015, 04:30:01 PM
I think SLU's broadcasts are one of the best in D3 along with RPI and Brandeis.

I agree. I also enjoy the broadcasts from Wheaton IL, Loras, F&M, Messiah, and WashU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 18, 2015, 05:32:17 PM
SLU has scored 16 goals this season.
14 in the 2nd half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 18, 2015, 06:28:47 PM
Injuries continue to hamper SLU as they draw with Cortland on the road 0-0.  Basically tradition now for the start of the season to be plagued by injuries.  Chandler Short finally comes back but Ryan Grant (leading scorer) simultaneously goes down.  Perhaps scheduling all these games against SUNYAC will be beneficial in the long run, as everyone seems to be quite strong.  Cortland has a vastly improved squad from last year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 19, 2015, 04:58:46 PM
Hobart is back, a necessary win for SLU, Clarkson continues their subpar start to the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on September 19, 2015, 05:21:49 PM
RPI looks legit.  Now up 3-1 over Potsdam.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 19, 2015, 05:34:40 PM
Biggest problem for Potsdam is that no one else will ever underestimate them from here on out.
Burden of being a  good team.

Big difference trying to surprise people as opposed to having a bulls eye on your back.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on September 21, 2015, 09:16:41 AM
SLU just needs to figure out how to consistently capitalize on their possession. The defense is, as usual, rock solid.  Need some young players to step up and start scoring more consistently.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 21, 2015, 01:35:05 PM
Quote from: SandyMac on September 21, 2015, 09:16:41 AM
SLU just needs to figure out how to consistently capitalize on their possession. The defense is, as usual, rock solid.  Need some young players to step up and start scoring more consistently.

Couple players being hurt is not doing them any favors.  Ryan Grant (leading scorer with 6 goals) has been out, and they just got back their #7 who snagged the game winner against Buff State.  The freshman Augustine has 3 goals I think, but it's pretty clear Toshack is experimenting with his lineup before league play starts.  I think we'll see who he wants to consistently go with on Wednesday against a good Plattsburgh squad. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 25, 2015, 12:10:53 AM
Excitement is building as league play is set to begin tomorrow with a full slate of games.  Here are a few predictions to get the discussion going:

SLU 3 - RIT 0     It appears that things are starting to come together for the Saints, which bodes poorly for the Tigers on the road.

RPI 3 - Bard 0     Bard is improved over last year, but not enough to hold off RPI, who make take the foot off the gas somewhat and take out the starters early to rest up for Sunday's tilt with Babson.

Skidmore 2 - Clarkson 1     Clarkson will be a tough out this season, but I think the Thoroughbreds will get by at home.

Hobart 2 - Union 1     In what may be the game of the day, the visiting Statesmen might punish Union for their soft early season schedule.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 25, 2015, 12:09:00 PM
RIT always gives SLU a tough game.
St. Lawrence has only scored 3 goals in last five games.
When they do the its the freshmen who score.

I see a 1-0 game either way.

Bard are now good enough to play ragged defense.
2-0 RPI

Hobart is stronger this year I think
2-0 over Union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 25, 2015, 01:13:03 PM
Can someone explain the situation the past few years at RIT...I remember RIT being a very competitive team in the Empire 8 and even when they first got into the Liberty League. All of a sudden the past few years they have really fallen off.

My predictions:    I have only seen SLU, Skidmore, RPI and Union.

SLU v RIT                      5-0
RPI v BARD                    3-0
Skidmore v Clarkson       1-0
Hobart v Union               3-0

SLU, RPI, Hobart, Skidmore and Vassar will be battling it out with only 4 spots available for LL Playoffs my hunch is that Vassar just misses.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 26, 2015, 05:01:27 PM
RPI beat Bard, 1-0. Shots were 14-11, shots on goal were even. They kept their starters in. Down 1-0 Bard had an equalizer disallowed mid-second half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 27, 2015, 06:32:06 PM
Bard will surprise people this year.

Hobart and Union are both still very much in the hunt.

Clarkson running out of time to impress.

SLU will have a tough time getting home field come playoffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 27, 2015, 06:56:09 PM
RPI drew with Babson this afternoon.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 28, 2015, 01:00:45 PM
I believe RPI is a good team, not great but good and they are 1 team that is completely over achieving. 8-0-1 against a solid schedule is commendable but again this team lost 2 of their BEST players from last year and I believe they will be fighting for their lives to get into the top 4 LL play-offs. After watching Union and Hobart I was impressed with Hobart even though they drew Union. SLU is top dog but I believe Hobart, Vassar, Skidmore and RPI will be battling it out for the top 4 spots. If RPI fails to make the top 4 LL Playoffs which is possible not probable but possible it will be interesting to see if they get a Pool C.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 02, 2015, 12:12:39 AM
There are lots of great games on tap for this weekend's LL double-headers.  I suspect that there won't be many (any?) games decided by more than a couple of goals.  Here are my predictions:

Friday

Clarkson 1 - Bard 1      Perennial cellar dwellers on the rise!

RPI 2 - Hobart 1     This might be the game of the day. 

Skidmore 2 - RIT 0     Skidmore has built up a head of steam and they'll be at home.

St. Lawrence 2 - Vassar 0     Watch for Augustine to have a big day.

Saturday

St. Lawrence 2 - Bard 0     Fatigue from Friday might help keep the score down.

Vassar 2 - Clarkson 1     Apprentice beat the master last year.  Look for a reversal this time around.

RPI 2 - RIT 0     The Engineers seek to keep their unbeaten streak alive.

Skidmore 2 - Hobart 2     I expect a wild one in Saratoga Springs.  The cards may fly.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 12:49:54 PM
Yes BIG weekend for the Liberty League. Gotta love the back to backs as a fan because the standings move rapidly. However, as a coach this Fri/Sat in league play must drive some nuts. I am guessing but without looking each team does 3 back to backs each year with the 1 game that is solo. That is not to bad but for instance when your opponent on Saturday is playing an improved but still weak Bard on Friday they have a massive advantage against you on Saturday. That would be Clarkson this week. Vassar will have had to battle for 90 or possibly 110 minutes against SLU while Clarkson has an easier game against Bard. To be honest I have not seen Clarkson this year so maybe they are not that much better than Bard but you get my point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 02, 2015, 12:56:05 PM
Bard beat Clarkson last year, at Clarkson.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 01:29:55 PM
My Liberty League picks...Home team listed 1st.

Fri:

RPI v Hobart-               0-1          This is Hobart's most important week-end of the year because they are playing 2 teams that they will be battling for a Top 4 spot. I feel like Hobart is going to get 2 wins this week-end as I have seen them play once and I feel they are flying under the radar. They have more weapons offensively than RPI and Frosh stud Derrick Acheampong is playing up to his potential. Some Nescac's wanted him bad but could sneak him thru admissions.

Vassar v SLU-              0-0         Vassar gets pumped for this one and is pinned in for a half but sneaks out with a well earned draw.

Bard v Clarkson-          0-1          I have not seen either team this year. If either team wants a sniff of the Top 4 they need to win this game.

Skidmore v RIT-          2-0           Skidmore is well coached and organized. they also have better athletes and skill than RIT whose program has dropped off considerably.

Sat:

RPI v RIT-                  1-0         RPI bounces back and RIT goes home scoreless for the week-end.

Bard v SLU                 0-4         Bard gets blitzed.

Vassar v Clarkson       1-0         Vassar gassed from the day before but prevails in a MUST win for them.

Skidmore v Hobart      0-2        Skidmore always finds a way to put up a stinker or 2 each year. This is one of those games.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 12:49:54 PM
Yes BIG weekend for the Liberty League. Gotta love the back to backs as a fan because the standings move rapidly. However, as a coach this Fri/Sat in league play must drive some nuts. I am guessing but without looking each team does 3 back to backs each year with the 1 game that is solo. That is not to bad but for instance when your opponent on Saturday is playing an improved but still weak Bard on Friday they have a massive advantage against you on Saturday. That would be Clarkson this week. Vassar will have had to battle for 90 or possibly 110 minutes against SLU while Clarkson has an easier game against Bard. To be honest I have not seen Clarkson this year so maybe they are not that much better than Bard but you get my point.



One more point about the LL schedule:

It looks like teams are face with a totally OPEN weekend when not playing in these back to backs.  Like on Saturday Oct 31st RPI is off and Oct 17th Skidmore is off. This is very hard for coaches to find games on Saturday's this late in the season because every other league is in conference play. Nescac kind of does this also and it is very hard for teams that have the BYE in mid to late October to get games. You do what you can but if you are lucky someone will play you on their back to back on a Sunday. If not, you are going all weekend without a game, which IMO can throw teams off a little. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 02, 2015, 02:53:16 PM
Union is the team with the weekend off this week.  They played New Paltz Tuesday (1-0 win), and don't play again until Wednesday night (10/7) at rival RPI.  Union's season will likely depend on that game . . .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 02, 2015, 04:03:01 PM
Wow, lucky goal for Vassar.  SLU defender slipped trying to defend an easy cross leaving a Vassar forward wide open in front of net.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 04:12:14 PM
How is the Vassar feed? I was going to watch the 2nd half of the RPI match because the stream is so good but would rather watch the better game SLU v Vassar as long as the stream is watchable
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 02, 2015, 04:16:43 PM
It's alright, definitely a bit grainy but watchable. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 04:42:34 PM
The Vassar stream is grainy but very watchable...I am certainly not paying $7 for the HD upgrade..That is the first  time I have seen that.

SLU knocking the ball around well in the 10 minutes I have seen. I have not been to Vassar in years but the field looks very well maintained. Looks a touch narrow
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 04:44:34 PM
Vassar with a dangerous free kick just outside the box before the half ends..#8 hits a nice ball just needed more rocket fuel behind it..It kind of whimpered out before reaching the GK
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 04:48:40 PM
SLU fans.....Where is Williamstown, MA native GK Sean Houston?? He is a tremendous athlete and I thought did a decent job last year filling in for your injured keeper, or was that 2013? Anyway, did he quit? transfer? anyone know?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 02, 2015, 04:56:02 PM
Just not on the team anymore.  I graduated over the summer so I don't know the exact specifics but the new recruiting class brought in a couple of highly touted keepers as well as a new coach so I think that might have had something to do with it.   Toshak just might have just wanted to go in a different direction.  After all he was previously the Portland Timbers keeper coach.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 02, 2015, 05:50:49 PM
Injuries continue to kill SLU
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 02, 2015, 06:03:48 PM
Total domination in 1st OT by Hobart, but they can't finish.  RPI having trouble getting the ball past midfield.

Vassar, Skidmore, and Clarkson have all logged Ws.  Race continues to be wide open.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 03, 2015, 03:42:17 PM
I guess Bard has improved...They are in the 75th minute tied 1-1 wit SLU...Injuries or not this is a game SLU must have
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 03, 2015, 04:22:31 PM
Looks like SLU grabs a much needed Win at Bard in OT...Any report on the game SLU fans?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2015, 04:25:18 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 03, 2015, 04:22:31 PM
Looks like SLU grabs a much needed Win at Bard in OT...Any report on the game SLU fans?


Very chippy game.  Bard player got sent off for his second yellow in the the 2nd OT.  Bard got on the board midway through the 2nd on a nice through ball, but SLU managed the equalizer in the 2nd half from yet another freshman.  Lots of fouls between both teams.  Game winner came off a scramble in front of goal off a cross.  Bard players tried starting a fight right after.  Like I said, chippy game and quite even.  SLU keeper Roethel had to make a breakaway save in the first OT. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 03, 2015, 05:00:56 PM
Really? So Bard has really improved and gotten dirty in the process...Well their Head Coach is a longtime Midd assistant so this does not surprise me one bit. Midd used to play better teams very physical and chippy to get in their heads..Good win for SLU as they get back on track
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2015, 05:04:44 PM
Yea it was an extremely physical game.  Ref took a lot of heat from the Bard side.  I though it was a very solid officiated game, and quite a few Bard players made some very late challenges.  Yes, a very much needed win as the Liberty League appears to be very wide open this year.  The team can only get better at this point, as senior captain Dan Hunt and leading scorer senior Ryan Grant will be coming back from injury. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 03, 2015, 05:43:24 PM
I'm not sure how a St. Lawrence fan can call a double-overtime win at Bard "a good win." Losing at Vassar and being behind in the second half against lowly Bard doesn't make for a very "good" weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2015, 05:48:40 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on October 03, 2015, 05:43:24 PM
I'm not sure how a St. Lawrence fan can call a double-overtime win at Bard "a good win." Losing at Vassar and being behind in the second half against lowly Bard doesn't make for a very "good" weekend.

Context man, context.  SLU is playing the entire year without their starting defensive midfielder and attacking midfielder.  Aside from that, their leading scorer and senior forward has been hurt, as has our starting senior right back and captain.  Bard is a decent side, and the team is playing away while missing key pieces.  While SLU has been traditionally strong in the LL, every single year they end up squeaking out wins against teams that people think they should beat handily.  At the end of the day, wins are wins no matter how you get them. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 03, 2015, 05:52:01 PM
Everyone has injuries to deal with, though it sounds like St. Lawrence will get a real boost soon. Still, the third-best striker at St. Lawrence is better than any player at Bard.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2015, 05:54:09 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on October 03, 2015, 05:52:01 PM
Everyone has injuries to deal with, though it sounds like St. Lawrence will get a real boost soon. Still, the third-best striker at St. Lawrence is better than any player at Bard.

Games aren't played on paper.  Gone is the era of teams completely running the table.  You also have to remember SLU has a new coach this year.  Combine injuries, a road trip and a new coach after 25 years of coaching stability under Durocher you're going to have games like this.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 03, 2015, 05:59:02 PM
Agreed. Looks like Hobart had one of those games today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2015, 06:35:08 PM
Red card for RPI midway through the 2nd half against RIT.  Still 0-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2015, 07:03:42 PM
Crazy finish to RPI-RIT.  Talk about league parity.  10 man RPI takes down an RIT forward in the box during OT and RIT converts the penalty to win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 03, 2015, 07:30:52 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 14, 2015, 10:05:49 AM
Great first two weeks of soccer.
Both the liberty League and SUNYAC are making strong starts.
1-1 ties between SLU-Geneseo and Vassar-Oneonta are signs of great competition.

It will be tough for anyone to break into last seasons Tournament 4 I think.
Which is a shame, because it means two good teams wont have a post season.
If anyone can, it will be 2013 Finalists Skidmore.

Skidmore has me feeling like a prophet.

They have one foot in the league tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 04, 2015, 06:07:15 PM
Saint:  Don't pat yourself on the back quite yet.  Last year you were touting Skidmore as well and then they flamed out.  Have to say Skidmore has demonstrated the best defense in the league so far and defense wins championships.  Who would have thought that the biggest game of the League regular season could be next Saturday's fixture between Skidmore and Vassar.  Losses by SLU, RPI and Hobart do not portend well for the league getting more than the automatic qualifier come November.  I am amazed that SLU has gotten to the point when squeaking by last place Bard is a significant win.  Bard has one or two players that could make SLU's roster.  It isn't a matter of injuries at this point, doubt has creeped into the heads of the SLU players, which is far more destructive.  It also didn't help that most of SLU's pre-season schedule was a bunch of lightweights.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 04, 2015, 07:03:58 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 04, 2015, 06:07:15 PM
Saint:  Don't pat yourself on the back quite yet.  Last year you were touting Skidmore as well and then they flamed out.  Have to say Skidmore has demonstrated the best defense in the league so far and defense wins championships.  Who would have thought that the biggest game of the League regular season could be next Saturday's fixture between Skidmore and Vassar.  Losses by SLU, RPI and Hobart do not portend well for the league getting more than the automatic qualifier come November.  I am amazed that SLU has gotten to the point when squeaking by last place Bard is a significant win.  Bard has one or two players that could make SLU's roster.  It isn't a matter of injuries at this point, doubt has creeped into the heads of the SLU players, which is far more destructive.  It also didn't help that most of SLU's pre-season schedule was a bunch of lightweights.

I'm sorry, but injuries are absolutely playing a role.  Could they be playing better?  Definitely, nobody is arguing that.  It's a young, inexperienced squad and you can't expect them to run the table like they have in the past.  However, the playmakers on this team that generate goals are injured and it's clearly contributing.  Also, you're greatly undervaluing the impact that coaching turnover has after Durocher's 25 year tenure.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 04, 2015, 08:35:41 PM
A change in Coach and a slight change in coaching philosophy will no doubt take its toll.

I think the bigger issue is that the new SLU coach has decided for better or worse to build a full squad.

This is good in that come playoff time a coach wants to depend on every one on the roster. @ St. Lawrence this season everyone plays.

A draw back (and you have to live with it) is that there will be a loss or two during the regular season while building a complete team.

As for other teams in the league:

I still like Skidmore. 3-0 with every other team (but Vassar) dropping points, how can you bet against them.

Vassar has a 2-0 start with a reputation of winning important games.

RPI after a great start have to fight hard to get in now.

Clarkson looks to play league spoiler once more.

RIT has bigger intentions than to just play spoiler this year.

Bard will beat a team or two, but who?

Hobart really need a win.

Ditto for Union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 05, 2015, 01:19:31 PM
After watching Skidmore twice this year I will repeat what I have been saying. They are athletic enough to compete with most teams in D3. They are very organized defensively and against top teams when they lose the ball everyone drops immediately. GK is solid. My issue with them is they will have trouble scoring against the best in D3. They do not have a legit striker, like a lot of teams and someone who can finish and win big games for them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 05, 2015, 01:24:31 PM
I am most shocked about Hobart..I thought they were a top team in the Liberty League and just cannot find a way to score goals. 0-1-2 is not going to get it done this year. They need to win out to get in the top 4 IMO.

RPI is also in trouble. After a great Non-conference slate and some great Wins they are going to be battling for their lives to get in the Top 4. No matter what they have done out of conference they will not get a Pool C if they do not get into the LL tournament. It has never happened. In 2011, Hobart had a similar great slate of wins out of conference against solid teams but narrowly missed out on the LL tournament and did not get into the NCAA's. RPI's loss to RIT is a major downer and now they are going to have to not lose another game in conference
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 05, 2015, 01:34:50 PM
Mr. Right:  You are right about RPI and that goes for SLU as well.  If either of those teams takes another loss before the Liberty League Tourney, and it is inevitable that one will unless their head to head is a tie, then another loss in the Liberty League tourney probably dooms them.  Interesting take by Saint on SLU strategy of playing everyone.  If it costs them games then it is an all or nothing proposition.  With their pre-season SOS don't believe the SLU mystique will get them a Pool C bid this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 05, 2015, 01:50:43 PM
I cannot imagine a coach not playing his best 11 against EVERY team. It makes no sense to me at all. One of the SLU supporters mentioned he played a whole different line-up against SUNY Potsdam and lost. This is absolutely ridiculous. Start your best 11 and then get a 1 or 2 goal lead then you use your bench
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 05, 2015, 01:50:59 PM
D-fan, as you suggest, it means nothing to "build a team" if it comes at the cost of missing the conference tournament.  Playing everyone should be reserved for non-conference games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 05, 2015, 06:03:42 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 05, 2015, 01:50:43 PM
I cannot imagine a coach not playing his best 11 against EVERY team. It makes no sense to me at all. One of the SLU supporters mentioned he played a whole different line-up against SUNY Potsdam and lost. This is absolutely ridiculous. Start your best 11 and then get a 1 or 2 goal lead then you use your bench

Agreed.  I can definitely see where he's coming from in trying to experiment with lineups.  However, the backbone of last year's squad is still there so I'm not entirely sure what there is to drastically change.  He's a new coach obviously and wants his own style but things have been working well enough with the core group of guys on the team.  As I've mentioned before, injuries are definitely disrupting things a bit but I'm still confused at the lineup that was fielded against Potsdam.  There's a not so subtle four way rivalry between all 4 schools in the area (SLU, Clarkson, SUNY Canton, SUNY Potsdam) and if anything it would have been important to field the best team to maintain the bragging rights. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 05, 2015, 09:12:30 PM
Ok all you pundits--What are the predictions for the three most compelling Liberty League games this week:  Union v. RPI; Hobart v. St. Lawrence; and Vassar v. Skidmore?  My takes are that even though RPI's 10 game unbeaten streak was total overachievement, they will prevail at Union as it is, incredibly, now a must game for RPI having lost to a bottom third team and RPI will benefit from the rigors of its SOS as opposed to padding stats with Albany Pharmacy.  Crazily, Hobart v. St. Lawrence is a must game for both, but especially for Hobart.  A Hobart loss or tie likely means no post season.  SLU has had Hobart's number for a long time and wants to re-earn national respect so I pick SLU.  In Vassar v. Skidmore  I lean toward Skidmore.  Having watched the Clarkson-Vassar video Saturday it looks like a battle between Skidmore's excellent defense and Vassar's excellent offense, and I usually give the nod to defense.  That being said, Skidmore hasn't beaten Vassar in a long time including all the years Beek was there.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 07, 2015, 12:50:55 PM
Union visits RPI tonight in an important match for both teams that may help answer some of the burning questions such as "Will Union be punished for their weak out-of-conference schedule?" and "Will RPI's fall back to earth after their great start continue?"  I look for the home team to claim a hard-fought 1-0 or 2-0 victory. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 07, 2015, 12:55:17 PM
RPI has scored 2 goals in its last 4 games against not the toughest of competition. Both teams MUST win this game. I say 1-0 RPI but they are on thin ice right now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 07, 2015, 12:56:39 PM
0-0 tie likely.
Which does nothing for either team.

But still better than a loss.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 07, 2015, 01:04:21 PM
You can throw all stats and perceived advantages out the window when these rival schools play each other in any sport.  The U, 1-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 07, 2015, 08:16:32 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 07, 2015, 01:04:21 PM
You can throw all stats and perceived advantages out the window when these rival schools play each other in any sport.  The U, 1-0.



You are correct and Union has impressed me. For the most part they have out possessed RPI and are keeping possession nicely. However, they do not have anything to show for it as they have had few chances. Their midfield looks solid. However RPI has a 1-0 edge at half off a corner.Union's defense fell asleep on that corner. Other than that RPI has not had much else.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 07, 2015, 08:54:38 PM
1-1 Union ties it up and are good enough to beat RPI in my estimation. Union scores on a nice counter off a 60 yard goal kick. With Williams,SLU, SKidmoe and Vassar still left for RPI and the end of this game their season is on thin ice
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 07, 2015, 10:11:15 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 07, 2015, 12:56:39 PM
0-0 tie likely.
Which does nothing for either team.

But still better than a loss.

Got the score line wrong on that one.
Union are actually not as bad off as RPI.
Undefeated in league play after playing two of the best teams in the league.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 08, 2015, 09:36:04 PM
Agreed.  A decent result for Union on the road against the soon to be former top ranked team in the region.  Union still has 6 games left to pick up points.  For RPI a disaster.  Give up the lead at home, and sitting with 5 points after 4 games.  If they replicate the first half there is no way RPI makes the tournament.  With all these ties in the League maybe 12-13 points slips into a fourth spot. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 09, 2015, 06:44:56 PM
RPI has a bye (from LL action) this weekend takes on Williams tomorrow. Otherwise, there is a full slate of action.  Following on deutschfan's picks from earlier in the week, here are a few predictions:

SLU 1 - Hobart 1      Fighting to save their season, Hobart will apply pressure on the Saints and should get on the board.  It might not be enough to earn 3 points.

RIT 2 - Clarkson 1     Empowered by their OT victory over RPI, RIT can enter the playoff hunt in earnest with a win.

Bard 1 - Union 2     It won't be easy, but Union should be able to pull it out at home.

Skidmore 1 - Vassar 1     I expect this one to be nip and tuck all the way.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 10, 2015, 04:01:52 PM
A very physical game going on between Saints and Statesmen at Hobart.

Hobart needs this one bad, as does St. Lawrence.

No one can afford to lose knowing that Skidmore have all but qualified for the Tourney leaving only 3 playoff spots between RIT/Hobart/SLU/Vassar/RPI.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 10, 2015, 04:07:42 PM
Skidmore has cemented its status as the team to beat with its 1-0 victory over Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 10, 2015, 04:20:25 PM
Starting to regret purchasing the one time pass for the Hobart broadcast.  Probably the worst broadcast I have ever seen.  Audio is 5-10 seconds ahead and the stream is continuously choppy.  Looks like I'm watching a 90's CCTV security camera. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 10, 2015, 05:03:04 PM
SLU loses on a PK in overtime.  Time for Toshack and the boys to start panicking.  Playing some pretty awful soccer this year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 10, 2015, 09:11:14 PM
RPI continues to struggle against an under 500 Williams side. Can't get a result even on their home turf. 0-2-3 in their last five games and only scoring two goals; three of those games being at home. Certainly not a top team in the East Region and can also question their Top 25 ranking. Coach Clinton continues to use his spot on the committee to keep his teams spot on the polls. Currently T-6 in the league and only them and St. Lawrence getting attention; another team who is on the rocks. Both teams might have to fight some demons over the week before they meet this weekend with possibly a post-season on the line. Would be nice to not see politics take away from other teams in the region. Good results for Hobart, RIT and Skidmore in other action. Big weekend ahead for a number of Liberty teams, some can put themselves in the top and others can play their way out. Interested to see what the polls look like come Tuesday, but I won't get my hopes up; probably just more of the same.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 10, 2015, 09:12:31 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 10, 2015, 04:01:52 PM
A very physical game going on between Saints and Statesmen at Hobart.

Hobart needs this one bad, as does St. Lawrence.

No one can afford to lose knowing that Skidmore have all but qualified for the Tourney leaving only 3 playoff spots between RIT/Hobart/SLU/Vassar/RPI.

Don't forget the U!  Still haven't lost a league game and have already played RPI and Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 10, 2015, 09:59:52 PM
Christmas comes early in the top two Liberty League games today.  After perhaps one of the worst first halves of soccer in the last five years for SLU they try to make it a game and then the defense gifts a PK and the win to Hobart.  Vassar's keeper lets an easy save on a long distance shot go through his hands and gives the win to Skidmore.  Today's results as noted in an earlier post make it Skidmore and everyone else lumped together except Clarkson and Bard--five teams vying for three spots.  The negatives for the League as a whole with today's results are 1) this is looking again like a one team league for NCAA purposes, and 2) if that team is Skidmore while defensive prowess is nice, Skidmore's offense will not get them past the first NCAA weekend.       
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 10, 2015, 10:12:08 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 10, 2015, 09:59:52 PM
Christmas comes early in the top two Liberty League games today.  After perhaps one of the worst first halves of soccer in the last five years for SLU they try to make it a game and then the defense gifts a PK and the win to Hobart.  Vassar's keeper lets an easy save on a long distance shot go through his hands and gives the win to Skidmore.  Today's results as noted in an earlier post make it Skidmore and everyone else lumped together except Clarkson and Bard--five teams vying for three spots.  The negatives for the League as a whole with today's results are 1) this is looking again like a one team league for NCAA purposes, and 2) if that team is Skidmore while defensive prowess is nice, Skidmore's offense will not get them past the first NCAA weekend.     

So you think that if a team other than St. Lawrence gets the Liberty automatic bid that the Saints won't get an at large? Who knows where they will be but it seems like the St. Lawrence name along with others carry some weight when it comes down picking tournament teams. Hard to think that they wouldn't get one, but they could still get hot at the right time and go on a run. It's the same thing in every conference it seems, top teams getting beat up by each other. Tough decision to make come tournament time when at the moment 6 teams have three losses or less. I believe the only times the league got two teams was when RPI and Vassar won the tournament and St. Lawrence got the second. Some pretty good teams have been snubbed over the last few years out of a bid. Strange what a name carries regardless of record.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 10, 2015, 10:58:03 PM
Yes, that's exactly my call on this.  SLU will have at least 4 losses and 2 ties even if they win out other than a loss in the LL tourney (assuming it is not a pk loss).  Their pre-season schedule was less than compelling (they should have kept UR on the fixture list although UR is not as strong as in prior years) and probably will not have a win against a ranked team other than Plattsburgh (who beat Oneonta today) given the RPI nosedive.  An overtime win against the last place Liberty League team will be viewed negatively as well.  If a 4 loss, 2 tie SLU team gets an at-large under these circumstances the system is broken.  In 2012 SLU received an at-large with 2 losses not including a shoot-out loss in the playoffs.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 10, 2015, 11:10:45 PM
Time will tell. Just unfortunate to see teams having good years not get in and a St. Lawrence gets a bid because they are just known for being a tournament team. Rochester is like that too, getting an at large going 8-4-5 (going on memory here) a year or two ago. I think with the NESCAC down this year it opens up some conferences getting other bids. No way that the 4th NESCAC team is better than the 2nd best Liberty or SUNYAC squad. For that style of soccer, they get too much love.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 11, 2015, 09:33:33 AM
First of all SLU will not get get a Pool C this year as it stands right now unless they win out and lose in Final. Nescac is not down this year. Amherst, Tufts, Wes and Conn all have good Pool C chances with Midd another possible one. In the Liberty, Skidmore is the best team right now for a couple reasons and I have stated them more than once. Yes, they are a bit anemic scoring and will not be able to come back from a 2-goal deficit against some of the top teams in the country but they are extremely athletic and organized and have a GK who is very solid. That makes for a good tournament team come November. Comparing Skidmoe and RPI you can see that both teams struggle to score against better competition but the difference is RPI is not as athletic as Skidmore. They sat 7 deep against Williams and frustrated them but still only had 2 VERY good scoring chances. Those %'s are not good. A 4-4-1 Williams side has now beaten a couple of your "top" teams in the East, Oneonta and RPI. Oneonta, with 3 losses cannot afford another slip either as there only real significant win is at MSU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 11, 2015, 09:41:36 AM
Actually, SLU at 8-3-2 has more of a shot then I realized because they have 2 wins against teams that will be ranked Rowan and Plattsburgh. If they can beat Skidmore who I also feel will be ranked in 2 weeks then they are starting to produce 3-4 wins v ranked opponents and will have a shot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 11, 2015, 04:51:28 PM
Can understand your loyalty to the NESCAC. Regarding Williams results against "top" East teams, they beat Oneonta early in the year at home. Oneonta certainly wasn't playing the level of soccer they are now as they just got their first blemish after ripping off 6 straight wins. Eventhough their opponents weren't ranked, conference games are always tough in the majority of conferences, including the SUNYAC. I don't think the result would be the same if they met again. They got RPI possibly at their worst during their second half of the season slump. RPI is ranked as a top team in the East because their coach is on the committee who fights to rank his team there. They are a ranked team, but certainly not a "top" team in the East.
St. Lawrence could be in a good position come the end of the season. 3 of 4 left at home, and they only have to travel down the road to Clarkson on the last day. With two regionally ranked teams left to play, arguably a third with Union as they could sneak on the next poll, they control their own finish. Based on their last couple games its hard to predict what those results will be seeing as we don't know which St. Lawrence team will show up on the day.
Based on regional rankings, New England has 3 NESCAC's, #1, #9, #10, with a lot of teams between them that are strong or have very good records. Endicott will be tested for the first time in a while meeting Williams as I am not quite sold on them. In the East, apart from Plattsburgh, Oneonta, Stevens and some would argue for Rochester; the next poll could potentially have 6 Liberty League teams on it if Union sneaks on as they usually do this time of year. There aren't a ton of teams making a statement to get on that ranking. With the Liberty going as it is, besides Bard and Clarkson no team has taken themselves out of the post season question.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 11, 2015, 05:30:15 PM
There have been a number of suggestions that teams have gotten (and could again get) at-large bids on name recognition.  Anyone want to give a specific example?  I can't think of any cases of this over the past 5 to 10 years besides maybe Rochester who was gotten in with some high loss totals.  Salisbury last year was questionable, but Salisbury was questionably left out one year if memory serves.  The committee loves high SOS and wins vs. ranked teams, and their selections reflect this.  There's plenty about the system and process that I do not like (e.g. flawed SOS calc. and over-emphasis on SOS), but I haven't sensed any name-recognition selections.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on October 14, 2015, 10:31:41 AM
SLU playing on Sandy will help them. Having a new coach coupled with some untimely injuries to key players is never a good combination to have and yet this is where they find themselves. Hopefully they get their act together for this weekend and close out the regular season strong.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 14, 2015, 10:59:58 AM
Very true.
Actually, both SLU and Union are in better position than it seems.

Either way, this game is a must win for the men from Canton!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 14, 2015, 11:49:25 AM
Any predictions for the weekend? I believe Skidmore does not have conference games this weekend so that will allow the gap to be narrowed at the top of the table. One of those weekends where two wins could get you into the post season or two losses means better luck next year. Game of the weekend for me is Vassar @ Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 14, 2015, 12:20:48 PM
Quote from: Sandy on October 14, 2015, 10:31:41 AM
SLU playing on Sandy will help them. Having a new coach coupled with some untimely injuries to key players is never a good combination to have and yet this is where they find themselves. Hopefully they get their act together for this weekend and close out the regular season strong.


At 8-3-2 SLU is still in control of their own destiny. Try being Williams at 4-4-2 with a new coach and no injuries.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 15, 2015, 11:44:15 PM
Quote from: TheSwayzeTrain on October 14, 2015, 11:49:25 AM
Any predictions for the weekend? I believe Skidmore does not have conference games this weekend so that will allow the gap to be narrowed at the top of the table. One of those weekends where two wins could get you into the post season or two losses means better luck next year. Game of the weekend for me is Vassar @ Hobart.

I'll give it a go! Here are my picks:

SLU 2 - RPI 0. The nightmare continues for the Engineers.
Union 2 - Clarkson 1 A big road victory for the Dutchmen.
RIT 1 - Bard 0 The Tigers roar back into contention (sorry).
Hobart 2 - Vassar 0 The Statesmen look to capitalize on their upset of SLU.

SLU 2 - Union 1 It's tough to go against the Saints at home.
RPI 1 - Clarkson 1 Coach Taylor's boys are a tough out.
Hobart 3  - Bard 0 Talent prevails.
RIT 1 - Vassar 0 The home team gets the job done.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 16, 2015, 11:51:05 AM
Here goes at least in the games between contenders for playoff spots:
SLU 1 v. RPI 0
Hobart 0 v. Vassar 0
SLU 2 v. Union 1
Vassar 3 v. RIT 1

While my posts have been less than positive about SLU's season to date, this is the weekend they will turn it around against a free-falling RPI team and an over-achieving Union squad.  Hobart v. Vassar is a game between two very hungry teams who each should have had 0-0 results last weekend.  I see Vassar's offense coming out of hibernation against RIT. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 16, 2015, 01:21:45 PM
I will give it a go...Home team listed 1st...Fast Food style
Most teams are halfway thru the schedule so this weekend is MASSIVE


SLU v  RPI----------------0-0   Both teams need this game. The loser could be in trouble. RPI sits deep and will try to counter. RPI's rest of the years schedule is not favorable.
Clarkson v Union---------0-1   Union playing with more confidence and I thought the one game I saw at RPI they looked like a decent side and outplayed RPI.
RIT v Bard ---------------0-0   RIT I have not seen but I think they are lucky to have 2 league wins already.
Hobart v Vassar----------2-1   I say Hobart goes clean on the weekend and puts them in the drivers seat to qualify for LL Tournament.

SLU v Union--------------2-0   
Clarkson v RPI-----------0-1
Hobart v Bard------------2-0
RIT v Vassar-------------0-3




Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 16, 2015, 06:00:02 PM
SLU beats RPI 3-0.  Big win for the Saints.  RPI never looked threatening, 2 shots and only 1 on goal.  All 3 goals coming from freshmen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 17, 2015, 11:56:27 AM
I think RPI finally came back down to earth.

SLU and Hobart will battle it out for 2nd / 3rd...Hobart Frosh got ANOTHER goal. He is the real deal.

Skidmore will most likely be hosting.

The 4th team will either be Vassar or Union.

After today's games it will become much clearer
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 17, 2015, 02:49:08 PM
Crazy finish to the first half between SLU and Union.  Scramble in front of the net sees SLU put one in at the very last second of the half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on October 17, 2015, 02:53:10 PM
Looked to maybe be after the horn. I don't care though. Here we go saints.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 17, 2015, 02:54:57 PM
I just went over the replay a few times, it was definitely a goal. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 17, 2015, 05:04:01 PM
SLU with 7 2nd Half goals? Did UNION have a complete meltdown? I noticed a red card on the box
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 17, 2015, 05:07:01 PM
Red card came in the last 5 minutes or so.  Union didn't play the best, but the SLU offense was firing on all cylinders.  Ryan Roethel even notched an assist on a long punt to Charleton Kelly. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 17, 2015, 06:35:17 PM
Bard was up 2-0, at Hobart after 13 minutes. Statesmen won, 3-2.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 18, 2015, 08:44:57 AM
Skidmore books ticket without playing.
RIT and SLU with one foot in and are led up top by some dangerous freshmen.
Hobart with inside track on 4th spot.
Vassar and RPI fighting hard but time is running out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 18, 2015, 04:47:48 PM
This weekend shows the contenders and pretenders.  SLU and RIT--contenders.  Union and Vassar--pretenders.  What a difference a couple of weeks can make. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 18, 2015, 05:50:00 PM
I would not count out Union, but they would have to show great character and team spirit to salvage the season and grow from a rough weekend.

Playing on a field as big as Sandy a day after a double over time game.
Game should have perhaps been 0-0 at half and against a deep home team that rested key players.

The fight for spot 4 remains open and
Vassar, RPI, Union will be gunning for the Statesmen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 18, 2015, 07:11:09 PM
Who really wants a bid in the LL?  Skidmore with what seems like a very poor 0-0 draw with Ithaca.  Is everyone just going to step aside for SLU?  Hobart really a serious challenger?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on October 20, 2015, 09:15:02 AM
Quote from: NCAC New England on October 18, 2015, 07:11:09 PM
Is everyone just going to step aside for SLU?

Ideally, yes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 20, 2015, 10:01:51 AM
Quote from: Sandy on October 20, 2015, 09:15:02 AM
Quote from: NCAC New England on October 18, 2015, 07:11:09 PM
Is everyone just going to step aside for SLU?

Ideally, yes.

Haha.  I like that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 20, 2015, 10:19:43 AM
I tell you what, the Statesmen are for real.

It would be a shame if the LL does not get atleast 1 at large bid this year.

A few very good teams.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 20, 2015, 12:37:05 PM
Liberty League most certainly deserves 3 teams.

Hobart, Skidmore and SLU...

They will not get 3 teams. The AQ obviously and then possibly 1 Pool C which would either be Skidmore and Hobart who have far better resumes than SLU. If Skidmore beats or even draws with SLU they should be all set.

SLU must get the AQ as their only win v ranked is Plattsburgh and / or beating Skidmore...If that happens than SLU would bump Skidmore
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 20, 2015, 01:06:39 PM
It would be quite a shock to the SLU soccer community were they not to make the dance this year.  I firmly believe that they'll get the results they need, especially at home. Huge game against Skidmore looming this weekend. A SLU victory would put real pressure on Skidmore to win out their remaining fixtures, including an away trip to Union on the last day.

If SLU can steal that #1 seed from Skidmore, I can't see anything but another double for the Saints.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 20, 2015, 01:31:02 PM
I understand your loyalty but SLU does not have the resume unless they BEAT Skidmore. A draw will do them no good. Also, after watching Skidmore 3 times this year you can bet they will be up for this game. They are athletic and well coached. When they lose the ball all 10 players DROP immediately....I wouldn't be surprised to see a 0-0 Draw.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 20, 2015, 03:11:03 PM
SLU did beat Rowan this year.  While they weren't ranked when they beat them Rown was ranked team for a few weeks after.  I'm not sure if the committee takes that into account though. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 20, 2015, 03:28:59 PM
It would only matter if Rowan is regionally ranked come tomorrow or more importantly in 2 weeks. IMO Rowan will not be ranked unless they can beat Kean. SLU is partially to blame for their own scheduling debacle. Had they had U of Rochester and Oneonta St on their schedule there 8-3-2 record with a game v Skidmore would look much better to the committee.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 21, 2015, 07:34:57 PM
Rochester chose not to renew the agreement this year, not SLU. Rochester wasn't a fan of playing Friday-Saturday, as UAA usually plays Friday-Sunday.

Agreed, SLU needs to beat Skidmore this weekend, especially at home. They're lucky to have their fate in their own hands at this point with 3 losses already on the books. Win out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 21, 2015, 09:28:17 PM
Thrilling finish to RPI-Skidmore.  RPI scores the game winner with 15 seconds left in the second OT. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 22, 2015, 01:48:46 PM
Game felt like Skidmore sat back for the tie (which would probably be enough for them to clinch.

Now they must face ST. Lawrence and a hungry Vassar coming up.

I cannot recall a time when the league was so tight.

Only Clarkson and Bard are done.
Union still has life and a game in hand.
RPI needed that win last night to still have some hope.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter McGavin on October 22, 2015, 02:44:52 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 20, 2015, 12:37:05 PM
Liberty League most certainly deserves 3 teams.

Hobart, Skidmore and SLU...

They will not get 3 teams. The AQ obviously and then possibly 1 Pool C which would either be Skidmore and Hobart who have far better resumes than SLU. If Skidmore beats or even draws with SLU they should be all set.

SLU must get the AQ as their only win v ranked is Plattsburgh and / or beating Skidmore...If that happens than SLU would bump Skidmore

Skidmore isn't good....9-3-1? Come on Mr. Right you know better than this. They are probably the 4th best team in the LL. This league will get 2. Shouldn't get any more.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 22, 2015, 03:01:22 PM
The Skidmore loss last night opens the door for SLU to win out, win the regular season, and host the postseason tournament as the #1 seed.  Skidmore faces Bard not Vassar (Skidmore beat Vassar 1-0), but that will be inconsequential if the Saints do what they are capable of doing.  Over a full season, the superior talent and depth of SLU has allowed the cream to rise to the top as they have adjusted to Coach Toshack.  From what I have seen, only Hobart has the quality and depth to stay with SLU.  Of course, anything can happen in a one-game, winner-take-all final situation!  Here's my breakdown of the contenders:

SLU --  I expect the Saints to win out and end up with 18 points

Hobart  --  I expect the Statesmen to win out and end up with 17 points

Skidmore  --  I expect the Thoroughbreds to lose to SLU, win against Bard, and tie Union to end up with 16 points

RPI -- I expect the Engineers to beat Vassar and end up with 14 points

RIT -- I expect the Tigers to lose to Hobart and tie Union to end up with 13 points

Union -- I expect the Dutchmen to tie RIT, beat Vassar, and tie Skidmore to end up with 11 points

Vassar  --  I expect the Brewers to lose to RPI, lose to Union, and beat Bard to end up with 9 points
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2015, 03:03:40 PM
I have seen Skidmore numerous times and to say they are not good is a JOKE....They are very athletic and well coached. They are organized and drop very deep after losing the ball. They are a bit anemic offensively but they have some great athletes that can get the job done. I have said this numerous times but I will repeat it because you are most likely to lazy to read prior posts. Skidmore can hold its own against the best of D3 but they would not be able to score goals against them...Now if they had Beek this year they would be a Top 15 team in the Nation. The problem with Beek was he would only show up for the "big" games and disappear for the others....ANYWAY
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2015, 03:04:39 PM
SLU better get the AQ because they are not going to get a Pool C...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter McGavin on October 22, 2015, 03:09:59 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 22, 2015, 03:03:40 PM
I have seen Skidmore numerous times and to say they are not good is a JOKE....They are very athletic and well coached. They are organized and drop very deep after losing the ball. They are a bit anemic offensively but they have some great athletes that can get the job done. I have said this numerous times but I will repeat it because you are most likely to lazy to read prior posts. Skidmore can hold its own against the best of D3 but they would not be able to score goals against them...Now if they had Beek this year they would be a Top 15 team in the Nation. The problem with Beek was he would only show up for the "big" games and disappear for the others....ANYWAY

Not lazy. Just new to the boards. That's just like saying if Messiah had their whole team from last year that they would be really good instead of just good this year. A lot of teams could be better if they had a player or two from previous years...holding their own and having a chance to win are two different things.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2015, 03:42:10 PM
Skidmore and Messiah are 2 different animals....I said Skidmore can hold their own this year BUT if they happened to have BEEK this year they would be a FORCE this year...Never did I mention Messiah
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on October 22, 2015, 05:58:36 PM
Ehh, I wasn't particularly impressed with Skidmore after watching the game last night. RPI was pretty even with them and probably created more quality scoring chances as well. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt though since they played at home on their awful turf field. The ball was bouncing around everywhere. Last night's game was very much a kick and run type off affair probably due to the conditions.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 23, 2015, 09:38:57 AM
Saw that Skidmore loss coming from a mile away. A SLU win at home and taking care of Clarkson gives them home field through the postseason, which has traditionally worked out pretty well for them.  Going to be an exciting last week of competition! Would love to see a Hobart-SLU title game...not quite sure how that hasn't happened yet
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 23, 2015, 12:39:38 PM
Quote from: SandyMac on October 23, 2015, 09:38:57 AM
Saw that Skidmore loss coming from a mile away. A SLU win at home and taking care of Clarkson gives them home field through the postseason, which has traditionally worked out pretty well for them.  Going to be an exciting last week of competition! Would love to see a Hobart-SLU title game...not quite sure how that hasn't happened yet

Hobart hasn't been good enough when they have needed to be. Another team in the league that struggles to consistently find goals. Could be their downfall again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 23, 2015, 01:43:21 PM
I was shocked to see RPI beat Skidmore...I thought Skidmore to be a better team but hey stuff happens....RPI is still in major trouble for qualifying for the LL tournament....Hobart has been my sleeper team all year as they are a bit anemic but they are physical and the Frosh Derrick Acheampong is the real deal...A couple Nescac's wanted him but could not get him thru admissions. He can score big goals for Hobart even as a frosh and they will be a very tough out come tournament time and I believe they are a NCAA team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 23, 2015, 05:29:09 PM
Not surprised Skidmore lost to RPI.
RPI needed the game or their season was over, Skidmore did not.

Big game tomorrow between SLU and Skidmore.

I wont predict an outcome, but I will say that the Saints are looking as fresh as I have seen them at this point in the season for a long time.

Coach Tosh knew that by building a deep squad throughout the year might cost a game or 2 but  it was all done for this very stage.

A great Coach told me in the 1990s that a team is only as strong as its weakest link.
That has always stayed with me.
I think that the teams who will compete for a championship are the ones with 18-20 players not 11-13.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 23, 2015, 05:35:20 PM
I have no ties to Skidmore at all but I am surprised by how many Skidmore "haters" there are out there....Last time I checked they were in 1st Place with a game in hand....I still say they somehow get a draw or possibly a win at SLU tomorrow...Unless they have serious injuries that I do not know about up and down their spine.....They can deal with injuries to their flank players but not the athletes up and down the spine....Skidmore is not deep at all, as they might go 13-15 deep but they play with heart.....I just have a hunch is all, Igot the Geneseo upset predicted right today over Plattsburgh and I will get the Skidmore upset tomorrow....Also,  how can you say Skidmore has nothing to play for v RPI...They had just as much on the line...A win would of given them 5 League wins with a game in hand....You don't think home field on that crap turf means anything to them???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on October 23, 2015, 05:49:02 PM
I'm not a hater. I'm just biased.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 24, 2015, 04:32:23 PM
Well I was close, I still got my 2 Plattsburgh losses prediction right and Skidmore had held SLU 0-0 into the 60th minute but....SLU goes up 1-0


Vassar defeats RPI 2-1
Union defeats RIT  1-0
Hobart leads Clarkson 1-0 25 minutes left
SLU leads Skidmore 1-0 25 minutes left


So...

Top 4 are SLU, Skidmore, Hobart and either Vassar or Union who play mid-week...

Very Interesting...

RPI who is 10-4-3 and had such a great start to the season was frankly overachieving all year and they are eliminated from postseason play.

East Rankings this week will be interesting with records v Ranked taken into affect I just do not see how Hobart and SLU are not #1 and #3. Oneonta #2...Stevens(still un-impressed with their resume) will be #4 or #5 and I suppose Platttsburgh will drop to #5 or #6..Cortland must drop out completely and Brockport is my new #6.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 24, 2015, 04:57:11 PM
Another big win for the Saints.  The freshmen continue to make their mark.  I admit I was skeptical of Toshack's approach early in the year but his plan is now in full fruition. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 24, 2015, 05:04:16 PM
Toshack had always planned to build a solid unit of 18-22 players.
I must admit, having played for him, I am a bit biased, but I think his tweaks have benefitted the team this year.
Still a possession team, but now a bit more threat.

Credit to Durocher for leaving him with the best recruited class in a decade.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerfan111 on October 26, 2015, 11:34:18 AM
Imagine this team if they had Seyefe Brouk and Rob Brandell still. Those are 2 guys that could have went along way.

Any news on R Grant and if he'll be back this year? If they could get him back, that would give them another Senior for the late run (would mean 6 SR starters on the field). That experience could go along way come NCAAs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 26, 2015, 11:45:39 AM
Grant will be back.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 26, 2015, 02:29:34 PM
Injury bug has been brutal for SLU over the past few years:

2011 - Lost entire starting front 3, including an All-American. Still managed to go unblemished through the regular season and make the Sweet 16
2012 - Lost DeMello 3/4 through the season, didn't have him in the LL playoffs or NCAAs
2014 - Lost Morgan Smith who had been leading the team in goals to that point
2015 - Brandell breaks his leg in preseason

Hopefully the rest of the squad can stay healthy! I think those teams could have gone a lot further had injuries not plagued them. Then again, that can happen to anybody.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2015, 03:38:50 PM
So all you SLU supporters out there can perhaps pipe in on this.  Now that RPI is RIP, which has to be vexing them given their incredible start and expectations, it looks like the Union/Vassar contest will decide the 4th seed, no disrespect to RIT, but I don't see RIT getting past Hobart.  Hobart is playing too well now.  In any event, who would you rather see SLU play at home in the first round?  The answer is not that obvious to me as Union will have total revenge on their minds after an 8 goal shellacking and SLU will want to avenge its only league loss.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 26, 2015, 04:03:02 PM
As a non-SLU supporter I can say they would rather see Union....An 8-0 thrashing is no easy feat and I can assure you that when Union gets off the bus and onto the field they will have that in their heads...Almost like Union would expect to lose. That is a total guess but I have seen this time and time again.

Also, I believe Vassar has beaten or beaten SLU in PK's before and Vassar beat them this year.So I do not think SLU would want to face them and believe me that SLU is on the "bubble" right now and cannot afford a Semi-Final loss at all.

Also, I would not count out RIT all together. Hobart is the stronger side but Hobart does not have much to play for as they have already qualified and I believe cannot host. RIT will be battling for THEIR LIVES..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2015, 04:21:41 PM
I agree with your SLU NCAA assessment.  If they lose a semi-final LL contest at home they will not get a bid.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 26, 2015, 06:56:22 PM
Pretty sure that Hobart has to win (or at least tie) to be certain of a playoff spot.
And, pretty sure that Hobart fans are rooting for Skidmore to get no more than four points from their final two games.
That would allow Hobart home field advantage and likely a rematch with Skidmore.
Seems like that is lots to play for?

Vassar likely needs all six points and then will travel SLU for what is likely to be a great match.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 27, 2015, 12:31:47 PM
SLU will not lose to Clarkson....When was the last time that has happened???   

So SLU will host no matter what. Hobart will be heading up to Canton,NY no matter what. Also, I said Hobart is the better team but RIT is fighting for their lives so they MUST WIN. Hobart will either be the #2 or #3 seed which has no importance whatsoever except for taking the home teams bench and home fields scoreboard side. Those are not biggies to be playing for. NOW if Hobart moves up the Regional Rankings tomorrow to say #4 or #5 then they HAVE A LEGIT SHOT AT AN AT LARGE which will make that RIT game and the semi-final game MUST WINS.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 27, 2015, 02:39:17 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 27, 2015, 12:31:47 PM
SLU will not lose to Clarkson....When was the last time that has happened???   

So SLU will host no matter what. Hobart will be heading up to Canton,NY no matter what. Also, I said Hobart is the better team but RIT is fighting for their lives so they MUST WIN. Hobart will either be the #2 or #3 seed which has no importance whatsoever except for taking the home teams bench and home fields scoreboard side. Those are not biggies to be playing for. NOW if Hobart moves up the Regional Rankings tomorrow to say #4 or #5 then they HAVE A LEGIT SHOT AT AN AT LARGE which will make that RIT game and the semi-final game MUST WINS.

The last time Clarkson beat SLU was 1993
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 27, 2015, 03:56:23 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 27, 2015, 02:39:17 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 27, 2015, 12:31:47 PM
SLU will not lose to Clarkson....When was the last time that has happened???   

So SLU will host no matter what. Hobart will be heading up to Canton,NY no matter what. Also, I said Hobart is the better team but RIT is fighting for their lives so they MUST WIN. Hobart will either be the #2 or #3 seed which has no importance whatsoever except for taking the home teams bench and home fields scoreboard side. Those are not biggies to be playing for. NOW if Hobart moves up the Regional Rankings tomorrow to say #4 or #5 then they HAVE A LEGIT SHOT AT AN AT LARGE which will make that RIT game and the semi-final game MUST WINS.

The last time Clarkson beat SLU was 1993

Am I am proud to say that I was at that game in 1993 watching my brother as a freshman starter on that Final Four Clarkson team.  For some reason the name Manny Brito sticks in my head as a player my brother was asked to man-mark in that game.  That was before they had the magnificent MacAllaster field at St. Lawrence.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 27, 2015, 04:36:05 PM
Brito was a freshman that year as well, but your brother must have been a good defender considering Brito remains 4th on the all time points list for SLU soccer. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 27, 2015, 08:57:29 PM
Bard 2, Skidmore 1 - Final
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 27, 2015, 09:52:26 PM
Congrats to Andy McCabe and Bard Soccer!  And, now an even more intriguing last two games for Union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 28, 2015, 09:56:24 AM
Quote from: stlawus on October 27, 2015, 04:36:05 PM
Brito was a freshman that year as well, but your brother must have been a good defender considering Brito remains 4th on the all time points list for SLU soccer.

And the West African also holds the single season scoring record (16)set his set his senior year in 1996.

Talk about true Saints of Old!

Mid to late 1990s were some great rivalry games between SLU and Clarkson.
Both were yearly  NCAA participants.
1998 Sweet 16 game was also a classic!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 28, 2015, 10:30:57 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on October 27, 2015, 08:57:29 PM
Bard 2, Skidmore 1 - Final

Bard are deserving of COY.

Led St. Lawrence late
Led Hobart by 2 goals
Led Clarkson late
Lost 1-0 to RPI when RPI was red hot.
Beat a hungry and desperate Skidmore.

Watch out for this team.

This means there are no easy games in the Liberty League from here on out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 28, 2015, 11:21:28 AM
Your right.  All the rest of the games have potential playoff implications. With Skidmore, the unthinkable has become a real possibility--missing the LL playoffs.  Whether they were a viable Pool C candidate before last night, they certainly aren't now.  Even Bard is playing for a spot in the ECAC tourney.  Crazy year.  Unfortunately only two teams have any shot at an NCAA bid unless a dark horse wins the playoffs, SLU and Hobart, and neither of those teams can afford not to make the finals. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 28, 2015, 12:28:21 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 28, 2015, 10:30:57 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on October 27, 2015, 08:57:29 PM
Bard 2, Skidmore 1 - Final

Bard are deserving of COY.

Led St. Lawrence late
Led Hobart by 2 goals
Led Clarkson late
Lost 1-0 to RPI when RPI was red hot.
Beat a hungry and desperate Skidmore.

Watch out for this team.

This means there are no easy games in the Liberty League from here on out.

Agreed on COY for Bard
Will be great to watch the LL going forward -- as a fan -- and to participate -- as a player!
Curious to see how the LL coaches respond to this relative to other games on their schedule.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 28, 2015, 03:22:22 PM
So riddle me this--RPI loses at home to Vassar, is eliminated from LL postseason contention, and moves up from 7th to 4th in the second regional rankings with Hobart no where to be found?????
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 28, 2015, 05:40:25 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 28, 2015, 03:22:22 PM
So riddle me this--RPI loses at home to Vassar, is eliminated from LL postseason contention, and moves up from 7th to 4th in the second regional rankings with Hobart no where to be found?????

Baffling.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 28, 2015, 06:13:08 PM

Frustrating for the Statesmen, indeed.

Hobart beat Clarkson, a sub .400 team with a strong SOS. 
RPI has a good win/loss record, even in the loss to Vassar. Plus, Vassar has a .579 win record and an SOS similar to Clarkson.
But, it appears RPI nudges out Hobart this week (my quick, back of the envelope assessment is that Hobart is 8th in East).
The top SUNYAC schools all played each other this past week, so winners went up lots, and losers went up some, in the East region rankings -- especially relative to Hobart.

RPI's last game v. Keene will not improve their position all that much, but Hobart v. RIT outcome will help Hobart (IF they win) as RIT's SOS is high and their win/loss record is better.

Hobart has been in a seven game "win or be done at end of regular season" playoff race since the OT loss to Skidmore -- any loss removes them from playoff contention. They beat Fredonia on 27 Oct (easily, after Fredonia self-destructed with kids kicking players and getting ejected, ugly and sad) and will need to win their final game against RIT this Saturday.

Then, Hobart will need to be in LL final to have a chance at a pool "C" bid to NCAA's (but at this point it looks like they will ALSO need Stevens and Oneonta to win, and either Plattsburgh or Cortland to fade out this week to have that chance).
In writing this I'm thinking the final opponent is likely to be St. Lawrence. I also am thinking its hard for any team in the LL to beat the same opponent twice in one season, and then add to this that (a) STLU likely feels that the PK in OT loss to Hobart was unjust and (b) the game will be played in Canton!

Worth noting that Hobart have been winning and dropping in the Hero Sports ranking, too.

Hobart needs to keep winning: simple to say and hard to do.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 28, 2015, 06:27:01 PM
Stevens always wins the Empire 8 which could be a bad thing this year. This is the 1st year where I have noticed Stevens quietly dropping game or 2 which has not happened since they joined. Stevens has enough good wins with another one today over MIT that will get them a Pool C. SLU and Brockport with 3 ranked wins look good also. I do understand the Cortland ranking or for that matter the RPI one but neither will matter. Neither team will get an at-large for various reasons. Hobart is a legit team as is Skidmore. Either team could win the LL even up at SLU.  Not sure the tiebreakers in LL but Skidmore beat Vassar and RIT and if they beat Union they will be in.


Both Hobart and Skidmore killed their SOS with wins over Nazareth...Plain and simple the system needs to be changed on the bottom end...Hobart and Skidmore had some VERY good wins that should outweigh ONE game on your schedule with a 1-13-0 Nazareth side
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter McGavin on October 29, 2015, 08:26:19 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 28, 2015, 06:27:01 PM
Stevens always wins the Empire 8 which could be a bad thing this year. This is the 1st year where I have noticed Stevens quietly dropping game or 2 which has not happened since they joined. Stevens has enough good wins with another one today over MIT that will get them a Pool C. SLU and Brockport with 3 ranked wins look good also. I do understand the Cortland ranking or for that matter the RPI one but neither will matter. Neither team will get an at-large for various reasons. Hobart is a legit team as is Skidmore. Either team could win the LL even up at SLU.  Not sure the tiebreakers in LL but Skidmore beat Vassar and RIT and if they beat Union they will be in.


Both Hobart and Skidmore killed their SOS with wins over Nazareth...Plain and simple the system needs to be changed on the bottom end...Hobart and Skidmore had some VERY good wins that should outweigh ONE game on your schedule with a 1-13-0 Nazareth side

I am not saying this to be funny like before but Skidmore is 9-5-1 and on a 3 game losing streak and 0-3-1 in their last 4 games...they have no shot at an at-large bid and will be lucky to make conference playoffs at this point. LL is a top 4 league correct? I would say Skid has the better chance compared to RIT but anything could happen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2015, 09:52:39 AM
I did not say they had ANY shot at an at large bid , what I said was they have a chance to beat SLU as does Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 29, 2015, 10:04:46 AM
Anyone can beat anyone at anytime in soccer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 29, 2015, 02:41:12 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 29, 2015, 10:04:46 AM
Anyone can beat anyone at anytime in soccer.

With this truism as header and warning:
Union over Vassar tonight, 1-0

Bard over Vassar Saturday, 2-1 (I am riding, if not driving, the Bard fan wagon for this end-of-season).
Skidmore over Union Saturday (may not be the prettiest of soccer games, but it will be intense), 2-0
Both Vassar and Union struggle with short turnaround from tonight's game, alas.

Hobart over RIT, 2-0 (the second goal is a result of RIT throwing people forward to create a result)
STLU over Clarkson (no guess on score but suspect both teams play their full bench)

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 29, 2015, 02:57:18 PM
Quote from: Part_Bart on October 29, 2015, 02:41:12 PM
With this truism as header and warning:
Union over Vassar tonight, 1-0

Bard over Vassar Saturday, 2-1 (I am riding, if not driving, the Bard fan wagon for this end-of-season).
Skidmore over Union Saturday (may not be the prettiest of soccer games, but it will be intense), 2-0
Both Vassar and Union struggle with short turnaround from tonight's game, alas.

Hobart over RIT, 2-0 (the second goal is a result of RIT throwing people forward to create a result)
STLU over Clarkson (no guess on score but suspect both teams play their full bench)

I cannot argue with any of your predictions.  It's great to see so many teams still in playoff contention coming down to the final couple of days of the regular season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 29, 2015, 03:12:07 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 28, 2015, 03:22:22 PM
So riddle me this--RPI loses at home to Vassar, is eliminated from LL postseason contention, and moves up from 7th to 4th in the second regional rankings with Hobart no where to be found?????

Just goes to show how politics influence rankings. Happens every year, the people who set the rankings are coaches who have their very own teams in given regions. Last year it was Clinton at RPI on the NSCAA Regional committee; where we all saw that they missed out on an at large bid last year but they were only ranked that high due to his position on the committee. Putting his team higher on the regional ranking makes sure that they will be ranked nationally. Which was why everyone didn't know why a #15 team in the nation wasn't in the tournament. He is the only one to blame for that.

We are starting to see it this year, however, I believe Coach Clinton has moved from the NSCAA rep to the NCAA. That is why RPI is on that list instead of a Hobart, which doesn't seem right at all. Yes, Hobart plays Nazareth, St. John Fisher and Fredonia, which all hurt their SOS; but RPI has Lyndon State, Mount St. Mary and Keene St., all with bad records.

IMO coaches on those committees, whatever the region is, should be ranking schools outside of their own region. I am only referencing the East Region but I'm sure it happens in New England where all the NESCAC schools get put on the rankings this time of year. It seems like things are a little over complicated, if you lose to a less ranked opponent, you move down, simple as that. You also can't punish teams as much for scheduling games against decent teams the year before, all to have them have a terrible season the year that you play them. Every good team plays their share of weaker opponents. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2015, 05:22:27 PM
I get what you all are saying but RPI is ranked because of their SOS which is one of the highest in the region and 2-1-1 v ranked. If they had not played Lyndon State, Mt State Mary and Williams Patterson they would have a SOS at .615. I agree Hobart is a better side then RPI but there SOS at .530 is just not going to get it done and like I said before it is unfortunate that beating Nazareth and Fredonia St actually keeps you from being ranked. THEY must change this bottom end stuff and not punish wins v teams with horrible records as much as it happens. It will never happen but I like the "Bart" to win the LL anyway. Now if SLU loses in the semi-final of the LL they SHOULD become a bubble team but with a 3-1-1 RvR and .575 or so SOS they most likely will get in. The 3 wins v Ranked especially in the East is very hard to ignore
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 30, 2015, 11:10:55 AM
Have not seen the league like this in quite a while.
Bard deserves a lot of credit for playing hard and improving as a team.

Union is for real.
They have only lost once in the league.
That loss was not as lopsided as one may think.
After 45 mins it was 0-0 on SLU's home field.
A last second goal was extremely demoralizing to a team on the road that had just played an overtime game the day before...

RIT has to do it this year, they just have to.
Is their freshman stud up to the task?

Will SLU's freshman class continue to impress when the real season starts.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 30, 2015, 11:57:31 AM
Quote from: Ommadawn on August 24, 2015, 11:12:01 PM
Jason Miller-FC Blazers-Needham HS-Union College*

I only recall having seen the new Union player in action, and he'll be a fine addition to the Dutchmen.  He's relatively small, but he's quick, dynamic, and very skilled.  He can play multiple positions and brings a high level of intensity to the game. 

It took nearly all season for this freshman to have a major impact, but he got the game winner in the 106th minute last night against Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 30, 2015, 12:11:48 PM
And then there were five...

SLU has clinched a playoff berth and can get the top seed with a win or a tie coupled with a Hobart loss.

Hobart can get the top seed with a win coupled with a SLU loss, can get the second seed or third seed with any number of potential game outcomes, and will be the fourth seed with a loss coupled with a Skidmore or Union win.

RIT can be seeded as high as second with a win and will be eliminated with a loss or tie.

Union and Skidmore are in with a win and out with a loss. One of them will advance with a tie coupled with a Hobart loss, but I'm not sure which one (I don't know the tie-breakers).  Both will advance with a tie coupled with a Hobart win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 30, 2015, 12:18:11 PM
Correction:  Union and Skidmore can both also get in with a loss coupled with an RIT loss.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 30, 2015, 12:30:30 PM
Second correction (sorry!): RIT will be in with a tie and a non-tie outcome in the Skidmore-Union game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 30, 2015, 12:33:54 PM
Union's been a great counter-attacking team: well organized behind the ball.  On their smallish home field they make it very hard for the other team to go forward.  This opens up for that counter. On bigger fields and against teams that are great attacking, well, STLU showed.

The Skidmore @Union game will be a true test. Both teams are used to turf fields and both have to win.  I'm sorry that Union has to do this on one day's rest. Something's gotta give.

I'll be at the RIT@Hobart game -- the final regular season game for 11 seniors -- and expect it will be quite a match.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 30, 2015, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Part_Bart on October 30, 2015, 12:33:54 PM
The Skidmore @Union game will be a true test. Both teams are used to turf fields and both have to win. I'm sorry that Union has to do this on one day's rest. Something's gotta give.

They don't HAVE to win.  They both will get in if RIT loses, but they can't count on that happening  ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 30, 2015, 02:09:44 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on October 30, 2015, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Part_Bart on October 30, 2015, 12:33:54 PM
The Skidmore @Union game will be a true test. Both teams are used to turf fields and both have to win. I'm sorry that Union has to do this on one day's rest. Something's gotta give.

They don't HAVE to win.  They both will get in if RIT loses, but they can't count on that happening  ;)

Oops and correct you are, Ommadawn! I think my bias showed  :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 30, 2015, 02:13:02 PM
The LL definitely deserve 2 bids to the  dance this year.
Then again, Brazil deserved to win a World Cup in 1982  :-[
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 30, 2015, 03:49:27 PM
Is RPI really about to receive an At-Large bid if SLU, Stevens and Oneonta win their conference tournaments? They were eliminated from the conference tournament with games still to be played. Questions will be asked if RPI gets a bid over a Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 30, 2015, 04:02:27 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on October 30, 2015, 11:57:31 AM
Quote from: Ommadawn on August 24, 2015, 11:12:01 PM
Jason Miller-FC Blazers-Needham HS-Union College*

I only recall having seen the new Union player in action, and he'll be a fine addition to the Dutchmen.  He's relatively small, but he's quick, dynamic, and very skilled.  He can play multiple positions and brings a high level of intensity to the game. 

It took nearly all season for this freshman to have a major impact, but he got the game winner in the 106th minute last night against Vassar.


They also former Williams star User Kushiana's brother Another from Berkshire school who is very fast and skilled on the flank. A little small in size but dangerous nevertheless
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 30, 2015, 04:05:19 PM
Quote from: TheSwayzeTrain on October 30, 2015, 03:49:27 PM
Is RPI really about to receive an At-Large bid if SLU, Stevens and Oneonta win their conference tournaments? They were eliminated from the conference tournament with games still to be played. Questions will be asked if RPI gets a bid over a Hobart.




No chance. They would take Brockport St over RPI. So most likely 2 SUNYAC Pool C's over any from LL. I do not agree with it and I believe Hobart deserves it but they have a VERY good chance of winning the LL anyway
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 31, 2015, 03:01:25 PM
SLU defeats Clarkson 3-0 to take the LL regular season title.  3 goals yet again coming from freshman.  Durocher's final hurrah as coach nets him one of the best recruiting classes SLU has seen in quite some time.  Senior forward Ryan Grant started today, his first game back in a month and half or so after injury.  He was the leading scorer until he went down, so as they say with Arsenal and their injuries, "it's like a new signing".
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 01, 2015, 02:08:44 PM
SLU has to be feeling pretty good: in good form, facing a winnable mid-week game, and with a chance to see either a tired Skidmore or settle-up accounts with Hobart.  Hobart @SLU has elements for a pretty good college soccer game as Hobart's NCAA chances (and -- if they get to the LL title game -- an eight game win streak) are pitted against SLU pride (and skill, and playing on their lovely home field). 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 02, 2015, 09:38:43 AM
Again, I think most SLU fans would love to see a rematch with Hobart in the final.  Hopefully it turns out that way.  The Saints need to be careful not to overlook Union on Wednesday.  An early goal should just about seal the deal in that one.

Back-to-Back-to-Back Liberty League Double champions? Now that would be incredible.  We shall see!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 02, 2015, 12:09:02 PM
I love this SLU v Union match-up. These games happen year in and year out. Will Union come out intimidated by SLU and assume they are going to lose or will SLU be over confident thinking all we need to do is show up to win since we beat them 8-0 a week or two ago.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 02, 2015, 12:52:33 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 02, 2015, 12:09:02 PM
I love this SLU v Union match-up. These games happen year in and year out. Will Union come out intimidated by SLU and assume they are going to lose or will SLU be over confident thinking all we need to do is show up to win since we beat them 8-0 a week or two ago.

This game is somewhat analogous to the Amherst/Wesleyan playoff game Saturday -- a blowout for the home team followed by a replay a short time later.  I'd be curious to know whether Union makes the 4 hour trip Tuesday, or drives up just before the game on Wednesday.  If the former, I expect Union to make it close.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 02, 2015, 01:09:04 PM
The game will be close.
Never underestimate school pride.

The game, and I say it again was not a 8-0 game circa 2012 Wheaton in the NCAAs

The game was even and 0-0 after 44:59 seconds.
Union had played a double OT game the day before and faced a rested SLU on Sandy.

SLU is tough to play on Sandy when they are going on all cylinders and they just happened to be on that day.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 02, 2015, 01:38:31 PM
There is no question Union will be going up the night before. I would imagine Skidmore does the same in Geneva. Why play on legs that have been on a bus 3 hrs when u can get fully rested legs going up the night before. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 02, 2015, 01:48:46 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 02, 2015, 01:38:31 PM
There is no question Union will be going up the night before. I would imagine Skidmore does the same in Geneva. Why play on legs that have been on a bus 3 hrs when u can get fully rested legs going up the night before.

The Skidmore at Hobart game is Tuesday (3 Nov), 1330 (because the field has no lights and the William Smith (women) are hosting the semi-final playoff game on Wednesday. They are higher seeded then the Hobart (men) so have priority). It is supposed to be sunny and 70F for kickoff on Tuesday.   What fun.

So, Union and SLU will know who will be their opponent 20 some hours before they kick-off. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 02, 2015, 02:34:43 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 02, 2015, 01:38:31 PM
There is no question Union will be going up the night before. I would imagine Skidmore does the same in Geneva. Why play on legs that have been on a bus 3 hrs when u can get fully rested legs going up the night before.

You are probably correct as to the travel date, but unfortunately, Union soccer is not Union hockey, so there may be budgetary limitations that dictate Wednesday travel . . .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 03, 2015, 03:42:57 PM
Skidmore beats Hobart 1-0 at Hobart. Thoroughbreds controlled the game and kept Hobart from ever really getting into a rhythm. Statesmen had a couple of chances but never got anything going really. Skidmore reminds me a lot of MIT: not particularly skilled in the final third or midfield, but they find goals, are very organized and big, and do well in the middle of the field due to their shape. My guess is that Hobart will have to sweat it regarding a Pool C mainly due to their SOS.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2015, 03:46:46 PM
Accurate assessment blooter, Hobart never really looked threatening.  I was quite surprised by this result.  Skidmore did not finish the season strong and Hobart was riding a 7 game win streak.  Next to SLU (homer bias  ;D) Hobart was the strongest LL team I've seen this year.  But like Saint of Old says, anyone can beat anyone anytime in this sport. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 03, 2015, 06:12:17 PM
Tough day for Statesmen.   
Credit to the physicality of Skidmore for bringing game to a level of play where they can succeed.
Hobart is wishing it were a 64 team, not a 61 team, field for NCAAs....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on November 03, 2015, 11:59:19 PM
Unfortunately Hobart looked a little confused. When a team is doing that well for a couple weeks and falls into good form, it can be tough to scramble when they find themselves in different situations late in games. Not giving up a ton of goals and then trying to find some in the waning minutes can be tough when Hobart hasn't scored a ton of goals this year, especially in conference. Credit to Skidmore for taking in to the Statesman in the 2nd half instead of just defending, which we all know they can do. Skidmore had a second goal questionably called back and was much more dangerous in the 2nd half. Amazing how a 13-3-2 team may very well have played their last game of the season. No doubt Hobart deserves some love in the NCAA polls, and many don't agree with them being left off of their rankings. Can only imagine the questioning that ensues if an RPI team plays again in the NCAA's. At some point judgment needs to not only be numbers, but passing the eye test. You see it all the time for you NCAA D1 Basketball fans; they are looking for 64 teams, give or take a couple, so are we.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 04, 2015, 09:10:07 AM
If RPI gets in over Hobart, then I think we all know why. Unfortunately for the Statesmen, Griffin doesn't sit on the NCAA selection committee. As far as overall resumes go, you'd like to see the team that's been hotter more recently get the bid, as they'll in theory make for better competition come tournament time.

Oddly enough, Hobart has to be pulling hard for SLU to win this thing now, as a Skidmore win surely ends Hobart's chance at an at-large, which the Saints would snatch up.

Today should be another great match, I don't see it being more than a 1 goal game.  Perhaps even penalties?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2015, 12:04:02 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 03, 2015, 03:42:57 PM
Skidmore beats Hobart 1-0 at Hobart. Thoroughbreds controlled the game and kept Hobart from ever really getting into a rhythm. Statesmen had a couple of chances but never got anything going really. Skidmore reminds me a lot of MIT: not particularly skilled in the final third or midfield, but they find goals, are very organized and big, and do well in the middle of the field due to their shape. My guess is that Hobart will have to sweat it regarding a Pool C mainly due to their SOS.



I thought the same thing a couple weeks ago when I saw MIT because I have seen Skidmore maybe 3 times. Now I am more inclined to compare Skidmore and Bowdoin. Very structured and organized defensively. Very good GK's(Bowdoin's is better) , athletic and anemic offensively. Very deliberate after getting the first goal. Meaning willing to waste time early in the 2nd Half. Absolutely hate THAT PART but the rest of it is commendable. Bowdoin has a bit more quality but not by much.


I will give Skidmore a slight advantage after Union upsets SLU because Union will be so high after a win like that they would be prime for a beating.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2015, 01:41:21 PM
1-0 Union on an absolutely horrible Gk'ing mistake. Sun caused him some problems but cmon that was WEAK
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2015, 01:50:10 PM
i am shocked Union has not gone to a block of 7 defensively. They are actually staying in their shape and not dropping to deep after losing the ball.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2015, 01:52:40 PM
SLU plays a high line, Union coach clearly isn't content with trying to protect a one goal lead.  Better chance scoring again than not conceding an equalizer I guess. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 04, 2015, 01:53:55 PM
If it continues at this rate, you'll see Copeland, Yarros, and Dorney up top for the last 15 min...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2015, 01:55:10 PM
The way SLU's backs are passing, I would consider throwing a wrench in and press them hard 2nd Half if they want to get that 2nd goal
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2015, 02:04:27 PM
Man, how SLU have missed Grant.  He has a ridiculous goal scoring record in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 04, 2015, 02:04:34 PM
1-1 Grant. Really nice give-and-go, opened Union up like slicing butter.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2015, 02:14:03 PM
Grant is perhaps the most technical forward in school history, which is SAYING a lot!!!!

Not quite as creative as Ballantyne, but just as skillful.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on November 04, 2015, 02:19:57 PM
Did Roche, Dede, and Yarros all get injured during practice this week? None of them started.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2015, 02:20:50 PM
He's not your typical CF. Has the ball skills of a CAM and positioning of a true striker. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2015, 03:37:00 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 02, 2015, 01:09:04 PM
The game will be close.
Never underestimate school pride.

The game, and I say it again was not a 8-0 game circa 2012 Wheaton in the NCAAs

The game was even and 0-0 after 44:59 seconds.
Union had played a double OT game the day before and faced a rested SLU on Sandy.

SLU is tough to play on Sandy when they are going on all cylinders and they just happened to be on that day.

Great game by the Dutchmen.

I knew they would come out and fight hard. They had a great season indeed and will be among the best teams in conference next year.

Saints must try to  clinch the league now against Skidmore.
A repeat of the 2013 finals.
Should be a great game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2015, 03:40:47 PM
Congrats to the Saints and Skidmore.  Regional Rankings still have RPI at number 4, with Skidmore and Hobart nowhere to be found.  If Saints give a 6th loss to Skidmore once again this could be a 1 LL NCAA qualifier year.  Hopefully this is Roethel's worst game or it will be a very short Saints run. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2015, 03:44:41 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 04, 2015, 03:40:47 PM
Congrats to the Saints and Skidmore.  Regional Rankings still have RPI at number 4, with Skidmore and Hobart nowhere to be found.  If Saints give a 6th loss to Skidmore once again this could be a 1 LL NCAA qualifier year.  Hopefully this is Roethel's worst game or it will be a very short Saints run.

Uncharacteristic 1st half by Roethel, but he played much better in the 2nd half.  Sun was clearly bothering him but that was a pretty bad gaffe nonetheless. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 04, 2015, 03:51:46 PM
Roethel's been rock solid all year. No need to throw him under the bus.  The way he handled some of those crosses and corners in the 2nd half was downright impressive.

SLU has always prided itself in the team picking each other up when they need it, and today was no exception.

Can't wait for the final!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2015, 03:54:31 PM
Roethel's bailed them out on more than one occasion, and has only allowed 6 goals 18 games.  I wouldn't say he's entitled to a howler but he certainly has earned the right to not be judged on one mistake like that.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2015, 03:54:53 PM
Agreed.  He is an excellent keeper and I would consider him a top candidate for defensive POY.  On the offensive side the two leading scorers overall are from the last place team who finished with a 5-0 beatdown.  Don't know what you do with that.  So can the 7th place team in a 9 team conference earn an NCAA bid?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on November 04, 2015, 05:12:58 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 04, 2015, 03:54:53 PM
Agreed.  He is an excellent keeper and I would consider him a top candidate for defensive POY.  On the offensive side the two leading scorers overall are from the last place team who finished with a 5-0 beatdown.  Don't know what you do with that.  So can the 7th place team in a 9 team conference earn an NCAA bid?

Well atleast RPI will be well rested having weeks off while others play. Seems that they benefit from teams playing in their conference tournament which they didn't qualify for. How can you reward a team for not making the conference tournament? Why have conference games during the year if not making the tournament has no consequence? Seems like Chris Apple has lost interest in giving the East their respect seeing that Rochester isn't in the picture. Just another reason why committee members shouldn't be part of their own teams fate. If that's the case then a lot more coaches will be looking to represent their regions. No wonder Rochester has gotten the benefit of the doubt over the last handful of years. Not knocking their talent but I'm sure some real deserving teams were overlooked because them. No wonder why SOS is talked about, and who always has a high SOS; Rochester.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 06, 2015, 11:33:57 AM
Predictions for the final?  Going to be a hell of a game. The LL title game hasn't gone to OT since Hobart topped Union in 2009, and I think this one could end up finishing in a similar fashion.

1-0 SLU in 2OT.

Here we go Saints!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2015, 11:45:17 AM
I've been praising Skidmore all year so why stop now. I'll take Skidmore 0-0 PK's. If Skidmore could snag a bid they are in a great geographical location to be sent to many different regions. Also, I think that would certainly wash RPI and possibly Plattsburgh if Oneonta loses to Brockport.

I have seen Oneonta a couple times this year but have not seen Brockport yet. I remember them at Brandeis last year but not sure how they stack up this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 06, 2015, 11:53:49 AM
Ugh, penalties. Please no.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2015, 12:52:48 PM
SLU gonna snag a Pool C anyway give the breds a chance in the dance. Let the LL prove itself out there
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 06, 2015, 12:54:31 PM
No predictions from me, but no Saint is ever happy when a game goes to penalties.
Should be the biggest battle of the year for both teams.
I might be in the minority here, but I do think that All 4 teams playing in the Finals this weekend (SUNYAC/LL) should get in with a Pool C.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: lastguyoffthebench on November 06, 2015, 12:59:54 PM

I'm still going with SLU 2, Skidmore 0.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 06, 2015, 01:55:02 PM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 06, 2015, 12:59:54 PM

I'm still going with SLU 2, Skidmore 0.

Agreeing with LGOB's predication: SLU 2 up on Skidmore.
Suspect it will not be a free-flowing game, and my over-under on yellow cards is four.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2015, 01:31:23 PM
Things are getting awfully chippy in Canton.  2 red cards on one play for SLU and Skidmore midway through the first half, 10 v 10 here on out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2015, 01:38:21 PM
And now a handball in the box on Skidmore.  SLU converts the PK.  Kisselbach did well to get a hand on it but it was hit hard. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 01:40:10 PM
I was going to say Kisselbach almost got to that. Good effort. 10 v 10 and now Skidmore will have to attack. Game should open up in the 2nd Half
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 01:51:58 PM
Skidmore ties it up 1-1 with a header off a corner. Almost Halftime.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2015, 02:00:31 PM
That was a good set piece by Skidmore.  2nd half should be interesting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerfan111 on November 07, 2015, 02:03:31 PM
Anyone have a recap on what happened on the double red play? Also, is Yarros hurt?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2015, 02:05:51 PM
It was a bad tackle by Skidmore and then the SLU centerback got in a shoving match with the Skidmore players.  I'm not entirely sure on Yarros but I think he picked up a minor injury in practice. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 02:07:43 PM
I am interested to see how Skidmore comes out 2nd Half. 10 v 10 can be fun and open things up a bit if Skidmore were to take a chance and attack and press but they do not play that way usually.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 07, 2015, 02:19:15 PM
Grant scores 50', SLU up 2-1.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 02:31:47 PM
Skidmore with a nice chance. Great ball that led Santos 1v1 with SLU GK and a fine save by SLU's GK as he made himself BIG
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 02:54:16 PM
10 minutes left SLU still up 2-1 but Skidmore starting to apply the pressure.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 07, 2015, 02:58:34 PM
Dilts to Grant ices the game with a 3-1 lead 84'
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 03:01:45 PM
SLU ends Skidmore's NCAA dreams and their season is over unless they applied to get into the ECAC's. Valiant effort by Skidmore today but just not enough.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2015, 03:04:05 PM
3rd straight double for the Saints.  Missing key pieces to injury to start the year but the freshmen class stepped up big time. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 07, 2015, 03:29:35 PM
So do any other LL teams get into the dance?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 03:34:55 PM
Nope...One bid league once again
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 07, 2015, 03:46:18 PM
A shame.  So many talented players in a league where the teams beat each other up routinely during the regular season.  Most even league season in a long time with every team able to beat any other team on a given day.  From a future recruiting standpoint, the LL is going to become a tough sell.  Other conferences that routinely get multiple bids, NESCAC, UAA etc. will be more attractive if a prospective player wants to get to the NCAA tourney.  St. Lawrence is a tough choice as they are deep for years to come.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 03:55:09 PM
Nah that does not come in to play as much in D3. The Liberty league is a strong league but some teams need to do better out of conference and some need to beef up their out of conference schedules. Hobart and Skidmore are good sides who should be in the NCAA's but it did not work out
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 07, 2015, 06:23:02 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 03:55:09 PM
Nah that does not come in to play as much in D3. The Liberty league is a strong league but some teams need to do better out of conference and some need to beef up their out of conference schedules. Hobart and Skidmore are good sides who should be in the NCAA's but it did not work out

Hobart's loss to Skidmore probably cost them a bid and did not improve Skidmore's chances enough.  Both of thee teams, and RPI, are hoping for selection miracles (as is Cortland over in the SUNYAC)....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 06:31:11 PM
Hobart, Skidmore, Cortland and RPI have about as good a chance of Green Mountain to get in. ZERO. Harsh yes because all 4 teams are good teams but they came up a bit short. I forgot if the NY / NJ region still does an ECAC tournament but I think all 4 teams should participate if they elected to participate which some schools do not.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2015, 01:36:45 PM
RPI gets a bid. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: lastguyoffthebench on November 09, 2015, 01:38:15 PM

Thank you. Thank you!  I'm here all week.   -Barbaro.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 09, 2015, 02:10:30 PM
How does a team that doesn't make its conference tournament get an NCAA bid? The RPI coach should be ashamed of himself.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 09, 2015, 02:11:40 PM
Not to mention they were a much better and more deserving side in 2013 and 2014. This year's side is average at best
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 09, 2015, 02:20:19 PM
When you looked at the latest press releases from RPI that always mentioned an NCAA bid as a possibility when all the pundits were saying no way you knew the fix was in.  I am really a fan of this league, and don't want to sound too much like a detractor, but this is such a disservice to Hobart this year, and all the LL teams in the past who have had to fight and claw their way into the playoffs.  Seventh place in the conference.  Nuf said.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 09, 2015, 02:25:18 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 09, 2015, 02:20:19 PM
I am really a fan of this league, and don't want to sound too much like a detractor, but this is such a disservice to Hobart this year, and all the LL teams in the past who have had to fight and claw their way into the playoffs.  Seventh place in the conference.  Nuf said.   

Yeah. Regardless of Hobart's SOS, they still got shafted IMHO. Not even making your conference tournament is really bad, and to have a team that was subject to that fate picked over a 13-3-2 team is bad.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bucket on November 09, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 09, 2015, 02:20:19 PM
When you looked at the latest press releases from RPI that always mentioned an NCAA bid as a possibility when all the pundits were saying no way you knew the fix was in.  I am really a fan of this league, and don't want to sound too much like a detractor, but this is such a disservice to Hobart this year, and all the LL teams in the past who have had to fight and claw their way into the playoffs.  Seventh place in the conference.  Nuf said.   

And selected over Middlebury team that finished second in the NESCAC (and was upset in the semifinals on penalty kicks.)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2015, 02:29:20 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 09, 2015, 02:20:19 PM
When you looked at the latest press releases from RPI that always mentioned an NCAA bid as a possibility when all the pundits were saying no way you knew the fix was in.  I am really a fan of this league, and don't want to sound too much like a detractor, but this is such a disservice to Hobart this year, and all the LL teams in the past who have had to fight and claw their way into the playoffs.  Seventh place in the conference.  Nuf said.   


No disagreement there.  Hobart made the LL tourney AND beat SLU who were ranked at the time. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 09, 2015, 02:32:17 PM
I agree with Mr. Right. In recent years the argument to get RPI was much stronger than it is this year. Where is the win that put RPI in? And where did Hobart go wrong?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 09, 2015, 02:34:43 PM
Hobart should have been the only other viable NCAA candidate this year.  Bard loss killed it for Skidmore, and Union has got to start playing a tougher out of conference schedule.  Bard played SLU tougher than RPI.  Since arguably SLU underachieved this year with two conference losses (I am a little tongue in cheek here) perhaps the RPI staff should get coaching staff of the year honors.  Certainly if lobbying the NCAA is a component they should be right up there.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 09, 2015, 02:52:00 PM
I didn't even realize it until I just checked, but RPI went 3-3-2 in the league. It's outrageous they're in the tournament. Meanwhile, Middlebury (12-2-2) is among the teams watching from home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 09, 2015, 03:00:50 PM
Middlebury would have been better off not qualifying for the NESCAC playoffs.  Would have avoided that pesky PK loss and would have had more time to heal from a tough season.  If the committee was going to give bids to teams that didn't make their conference playoffs they should have looked at Vassar.  Vassar beat both SLU and RPI, and tied Oneonta.  What's six losses when you can beat the two NCAA qualifiers from the conference.  Just absurd.  I will stop now. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2015, 04:32:43 PM
I have to say, as a SLU alum I would love nothing more than a shot at redemption against Amherst, but that's what we've been saying for the last 10 years and it's never gone our way.  I'm not terribly upset they're not in the same pod this year!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 10, 2015, 07:40:05 PM
after a day digesting the NCAA picks.

I think 3 things are for sure.
1. The LL is too good a league to only have one team represented year after year.

In 2011 and 2012 there were three teams picked if memory serves (RPI/Vassar/SLU)

2013 and 2014 only SLU was chosen which is a shame.

2. RPI got royally skewered last season and perhaps deserved a bid.

3. I am happy to be cheering for 2 teams from here on out.
Obviously I want my boyz to "eat the food" as it applies to the NCAA, but I would also like to see RPI do well, and I would feel the same about Hobart/Skidmore or Union were they in the Dance.

Here we go LL!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 10, 2015, 07:48:17 PM
Completely agree Old Saint that the LL is a top class league!  This could be the year for your Saints.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 10, 2015, 08:04:57 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 10, 2015, 07:48:17 PM
Completely agree Old Saint that the LL is a top class league!  This could be the year for your Saints.

I second the motion and join Saint of Old in cheering on both of the league's representatives.  As Patrick (not Thierry) Henry said, "Give me Liberty [League] or give me..." (sorry). 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 10, 2015, 08:08:27 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 09, 2015, 03:00:50 PM
If the committee was going to give bids to teams that didn't make their conference playoffs they should have looked at Vassar.  Vassar beat both SLU and RPI, and tied Oneonta.  What's six losses when you can beat the two NCAA qualifiers from the conference. 

Vassar definitely had a weird season. They performed well against ranked teams, but shot themselves in the foot by losing four LL games 1-0.  If they had managed a single goal in any of those four games, they would have made the league playoffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Madared on November 10, 2015, 08:12:29 PM
Apparently the Liberty could look a bit different next year as Ithaca has been offered and accepted a bid to join the league.  Their membership and schedule might be in place as early as next academic year. 

An Ithaca/Hobart rivalry could be great for both programs.  It might take a few years for Ithaca to gain traction in the league, but LL membership can surely help with recruiting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2015, 09:09:53 AM
Really...Interesting....So more defectors from the Empire 8 to the Liberty League. This is a great move for both school and conference. Ithaca and Hobart is already a big rivalry so putting them in the same conference really does not add anything to it IMO. If this move is legit then they will almost be forced to expand their conference tournament. Meanwhile, the Empire 8 is becoming obsolete. Schools like Elmira, Utica and Alfred are left for dead. Stevens is in no man's land. All these schools must be coming together to decide what the plan will be. One more defector and they will not have a league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 11, 2015, 01:17:28 PM
Ithaca won't be in the LL until the 2017 season. There are exit parameters that had to be met with the E8. One can't help but wonder if this means more teams make the playoffs in certain sports?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 11, 2015, 03:16:50 PM
Unless a another member of the league moves out? Just saying...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 11, 2015, 05:58:55 PM
No sooner does the Ithaca news come out ... when THIS Ithaca news comes out:
http://www.ithacajournal.com/story/news/local/2015/11/11/hundreds-plan-walk-out-ithaca-college/75570208/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: wingtips2 on November 11, 2015, 10:02:13 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on November 11, 2015, 05:58:55 PM
No sooner does the Ithaca news come out ... when THIS Ithaca news comes out:
http://www.ithacajournal.com/story/news/local/2015/11/11/hundreds-plan-walk-out-ithaca-college/75570208/
Their protests and gatherings are offensive to me and are causing me micro aggressions.
I demand they all be removed from campus.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 11:16:29 AM
Sage is parking a bus not even Mourinho would do.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2015, 11:26:44 AM
SLU is playing down to their competition. SLU GK is killing them every time I tune in
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 11:27:05 AM
Sage goes up 1-0 on a terrible goal keeping error.  This is the worst I've seen SLU play all year.  Terrible passing, first touch like a brick oven.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 11:39:42 AM
This is painful to watch.  SLU can't string together more than 2 passes. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 11:47:15 AM
Legitimately the worst half of soccer SLU has played all year.  Dreadful performance thus far.  Austin Dilts is killing every push forward by giving the ball away. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 12:26:31 PM
After 60 minutes of ugly soccer SLU ties it up off a corner. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 12:53:06 PM
Hand ball in the box on a SLU corner, Noah Bunton converts to put SLU up 2-1 with 6:45 remaining.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 01:05:30 PM
Ugly game by SLU, but the tournament isn't about style, it's about advancing.  Mature performance by SLU to kill the game off.  Lots of credit to Sage.  They played a very good game and stuck to their plan. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 14, 2015, 01:20:18 PM
If Sage could defend corners SLU would be cleaning out their lockers.  SLU is very fortunate they are not playing Amherst again tomorrow.  Based on today's showing that would be a blood bath.  Hopefully for the reputation of the LL SLU's evil twin takes the rest of the tournament off. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 01:27:43 PM
To be fair, it's extremely hard for any team to defend SLU corners when when a 6'5" first team All American is in the mixer.  He had the assist on the goal, it was just SLU playing to their strengths.  Have to give credit to Sage.  The played a very compact defense that disrupted SLU's typical free flowing game plan.  Would have been hard for anyone to get a good result there.  However, it was still a poor performance for 60 minutes by SLU.  Lots of bad passes and heavy first touches.  Like you said hopefully they've worked out the kinks.  A young team is bound to be a bit nervy in their first tournament game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 14, 2015, 01:40:01 PM
Great first game.
The problem for SLU over the past few seasons in my opinion is not being tested in the early rounds of the dance.

Now that "bad" game is out of the system the boyz should be much looser for tomorrow's opponent.

Good first Tourney win for Tosh while getting to rest his secret weapon.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 15, 2015, 01:09:59 PM
SLU goes up 1-0 on some set piece trickery
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 15, 2015, 11:01:17 PM
So checking out next week's games SLU has as good a shot as any to get to the final four.  Their defense has been playing lights out and a goal or two off set pieces should get them past Haverford.  Oneonta is vulnerable.  They lost against RPI and were a post away from losing to Vassar.  RPI's demise leaves the LL banner with the Saints.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 16, 2015, 08:53:29 AM
At this point in the tournament, the "anything can happen" mantra really becomes reality. Almost all of the teams left at this point are good enough to win it all, so it's all about who shows up on the day.  Defending, set pieces, brilliant finishing, etc. will determine who comes out of the East region sectional.

I had assumed that the matches would be held at Haverford, but Oneonta would make far more sense from a centrally located campus perspective.  Curious to see where it ends up.  I'd imagine SLU would prefer to play on Haverford's grass vs. Oneonta's turf though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 16, 2015, 10:15:15 AM
Already determined.  It's a Haverford.

Sectional hosts: Amhesrt - Haverford - Loras - Kenyon
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 16, 2015, 10:39:46 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 16, 2015, 10:15:15 AM
Already determined.  It's a Haverford.

Sectional hosts: Amhesrt - Haverford - Loras - Kenyon

Where are you seeing that information? Or are you just assuming because of the byes? I was under the impression that the sites would be chosen today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 16, 2015, 12:15:38 PM
The NCAA's printable bracket was updated last night and shows the Sectional hosts: http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/external/gametool/brackets/soccer-men_d3_2015.pdf
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 16, 2015, 12:17:22 PM
Also, some of the men's and women's teams had made edits to their Sunday game recaps to mention that they were hosting sectionals.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 21, 2015, 12:07:00 PM
Although the game is only half over, there is no indication that the second half will be any better than the first for SLU.  I assumed SLU's defense would keep them in any game but I was wrong there.  Also, it didn't help SLU to start with two weak opponents at home last weekend.  Haverford is for real.  Finally, SLU's forwards have totally disappeared in the tournament.  Well, they have 45 minutes to save their season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 21, 2015, 12:44:53 PM
Wheels have just fallen off. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 21, 2015, 01:00:59 PM
Disappointing end to SLU's season.  That was very frustrating to watch.  However, all credit goes to Haverford.  They are a very good squad and could very well make a run to the finals.  Congrats to the Fords.  SLU has a good, young foundation to build upon the next coming years.  Hunt and Copeland will be missed greatly, but the team has lots to look forward to. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 21, 2015, 02:30:42 PM
I was impressed with the full effort of Saints, no shame to their end.
Forwards across the Northeast, and particularly the rest of the LL, will be glad to see Copeland watching from the sidelines next year....
Haverford a bit better than I expected, hmm.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on January 13, 2016, 03:12:07 PM
SLU's right back for the past four years, Dan Hunt, is on trial with League Two side Hartlepool in England. Story here:

http://saintsathletics.com/news/2016/1/12/MSOC_0112162246.aspx (http://saintsathletics.com/news/2016/1/12/MSOC_0112162246.aspx)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on January 14, 2016, 04:53:54 PM
Quote from: SandyMac on January 13, 2016, 03:12:07 PM
SLU's right back for the past four years, Dan Hunt, is on trial with League Two side Hartlepool in England. Story here:

http://saintsathletics.com/news/2016/1/12/MSOC_0112162246.aspx (http://saintsathletics.com/news/2016/1/12/MSOC_0112162246.aspx)

Best of luck to him!  Too bad he was injured for portions of the 2015 season.  I've considered him to be SLU's most talented player for some time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on January 14, 2016, 05:09:48 PM
Good for #21.
What I can say is that he is arguably the best right back in SLU History (definitely most productive).
There is some stiff competition from Berner and Manfredie, but the kid is the perfect combo of size/speed/skill/goal scoring ability.
All good things to have at the next level.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on June 08, 2016, 12:30:47 PM
I just wanted to take a minute to congratulate yet another very good Saint Goalie...
Who wrote his page well in "the Book of Saints".
Ofcoarse I'm biased, and I admit to it, but this 7 second clip says it all about SLU SOCCER.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YurKRSecvgY
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 10, 2016, 12:26:26 PM
Liberty league 2016 is finally here with many of the boyz packing for preseason training this weekend.

This will perhaps be the most unpredictable year in a long time, but let me go ahead and try to predict.

Clarkson:
Will have another very tough year. They were surpassed on the depth chart last year by Bard, and I don't see them moving up despite an above average recruiting class.

Bard:
Last season's much deserved COY passed away suddenly, but not before bringing respectability and good soccer to his program. Bard for my money was by far "the most improved team" in the conference, which is a title every single coach in the country tries to attain. I think the Boys from bard will take inspiration from their late and great coach and shock even more people in 2016.

RIT:
The Jeckyl and Hyde of the Liberty league.
They can beat anyone in the league and lose tpo anyone in the league.
This year they will continue the trend more than likely, and that will not be enough to get them in the league dance.

Skidmore:
Last years conference finalists might have a rough go, but have some serious firepower and could get a 3rd or 4th seed.

RPI:
Will be good this year.
The team is well coached, and they are also aware that they had a great season last year (besides the middle part).

Union:
Has something to prove.
They were up by a goal against SLU in last years league semi, and have been a solid program for the last 3-4 years, just cant seem to get to the big dance. Look for that to possibly change, I definitely see them being top 4.

Vassar:
Can beat any team in the league, and have proven it time and time again. They are always a playoff team, but have not made it to the big dance in a couple years. Watch for them to rebuild while reloading this year with a good incoming class. Coached by the most experienced coach in the league, Vassar will again make league playoff, but will have to catch fire in order to make NCAAs.

SLU:
Very hard for me to put my bias away to write 4 lines on this team but...
2nd year head coach will now have his own horses to ride for an entire season.
Losing a whole lot from last season's squad.
The only positive I see at this point is that the team will be very very fast.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on August 10, 2016, 02:43:28 PM
Great overview, Saint!  You hit on some of the key issues confronting LL teams.  Let's not forget about Hobart, however.  They have been accumulating some top notch talent over the past few years and were in contention for an NCAA tournament berth until the very end last year.  As always, my impression of the league is that there is SLU...and then there is everyone else.  I don't see SLU being displaced from the top of the table anytime soon.  That said, I think the battle for the remaining playoff spots is truly wide open, with all teams except maybe for Clarkson and Bard having a solid chance to reach the postseason tournament.  In just a few short weeks, we'll start to get some answers!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 10, 2016, 03:02:31 PM
Only had one cup of coffee today.
The Statesmen  of Hobart will be in the mix and will make the playoff (is that 6 teams I have in the 4 team playoff now :) )
They were dominant 4-6 years ago, and were even challenging for Big Dog status in the league during that time.
I think they were strong last year.
I believe beat SLU at home.
They are always a top team in the league, even when they fail to dance.

So again:
1. Hobart
2.Vassar
3. Union
4. Skidmore
5.RPI
6.SLU
Will all be battling for 4 spots.
Throw RIT in there and it shows you how competitive a league this really is.

Oh, to have one more year of eligibility... But then again looking at SLU's young strikers, maybe not.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 10, 2016, 04:02:55 PM
I think Hobart if motivated and focused for every league game has a real shot at winning the title this year. They are an athletic bunch, well coached an feisty when I saw them last year.

RIT was a much better program in the old Empire 8 and I still do not understand why they have dropped off a bit in the Liberty League. They used to play LL opponents out of conference an beat them when they were in the Empire 8 but the past few years have been a major disappointment.

Union while utterly dominated at SLU in the semi-finals even after scoring the 1st goal were a young side last year. I have been a big critic of Jeff Guin's scheduling since he has been at Union but this year's schedule looks much improved except for their annual pilgrimage to play Albany College of Pharmacy. They have added some Empire 8 and SUNYAC foes in Utica and New Paltz plus they have added UMASS Boston. So there is improvement but still weak. 4 games that they will win but will absolutely kill their SOS and OWP are Pharmacy, Johnson St, SUNY Poly and SUNY Canton. So an at-large is basically impossible. They do have some young talent and I hear a decent recruiting class so they will be a tough out in the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 10, 2016, 05:08:35 PM
Forget to mention Hobart's impressive out of conference schedule.

Etown, Dickinson,Rochester, Cortland St

Plus...Utica, Geneseo St, Potsdam St and Ithica...All very decent teams which should have over ..500 W/L records

Add that to the LL schedule and we are talking about possibly close to a .600 SOS....At large berth very possible with some good wins available.



RPI's look good as usual....with Rochester, Williams, Oneonta and Dickinson.


Vassar has Oneonta and Rochester and the rest looks average....Maybe a .565 SOS

Skidmore has Plattsburgh, Cortland and Williams spread thru some very weak teams.

Clarkson and SLU playing over half the SUNYAC.

Anyway, I still feel like if Hobart stays focused, healthy, gets some help from the frosh and a little luck they could win the LL or even get a Pool C with some key wins out of conference( see 2015 RPI)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 12, 2016, 07:01:47 PM
Another season with the astute Liberty League fans.  Hopefully more than one of the top 6 teams will make the tournament this year.  (RPI actually finished 7th last year).  In making predictions I try to consider who has graduated and who is coming back.  This is important for every team but St. Lawrence who just seems to replace quality with quality whenever it needs to.  St. Lawrence graduates a great forward who would have had a phenomenal statistical year but for injury in Ryan Grant, an All American defensive anchor in Harry Copeland, DPOY goalie Ryan Roethel, and Second Teamers Yarros and Hunt in the back.  They also a very skilled midfielder in Chandler Short who isn't on the roster.  For any other team this would indicate a down year.  Rob Brundell comes back and if fully recovered will be one of the top players in the league  and SLU will just reload starting with the ROY.  Have to pick them number 1.  Hobart is a solid 2 even though they graduate an excellent goalie in Tyler Seraphine and a stud defender in Kyle Herrod.  Derrick Acheampong could easily have been a first teamer as a freshman and will be a scary challenge for any defense.  Skidmore loses an excellent goalie in Eli Kisselbach but always is strong in the back and has another young powerhouse forward in Augustine Okoye.  Everyone else competes for number 4, and much as it pains me given last year's injustice (Skidmore or Hobart and a bunch of other teams should have gotten RPI's dance spot), have to go with RPI.  Union, last year's number 4, loses 11 goals including a playoff goal against SLU, and a 50 point career player, in Carl Faber, a hard nosed and creative workhorse.  They will really miss him up top.  RIT has some good young players but are simply too erratic to make a run.  Vassar graduates 10 including Tom Wiechert's 21 points, 70+ career points and gamewinners against SLU and RPI.  RPI loses its top scorer in First Teamer Nate Gunderson, but his 6 goals over 20 games can be replaced.  Devon Baughen, who actually had more goals but only made second team, is creative and will make up the slack.  Bard will return two top scorers, including the top scorer in the league Nick Shenberger, but their 5-0 loss in the last game of the year to Vassar with an ECAC berth on the line, and the tragic loss of their coach, will have them starting on the back heel.  Clarkson returns forward Tucker Wilcox but he is does not have the support bring his team near the top 4.  I agree that the overall the games will be closer but in the end it will look a lot like last year.         
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on August 13, 2016, 05:39:22 PM
Agree with all that is noted on 2016 LL season.
Most of the schools are reporting out very strong recruiting classes. This means October games will be even more interesting.
Hobart upgraded their SOS to be sure that what happened last year with NCAA selections is not repeated, adding Cortland, Elizabethtown and Dickinson in lieu of Fredonia, Plattsburgh (alas) and Nazareth. The 30 September Skidmore at Hobart game should be worth watching as two of the four Hobart losses were v. Thoroughbreds....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on August 19, 2016, 06:28:19 PM
A little Friday afternoon net-surfing revealed a few interesting LL tidbits:

Clarkson's recruiting class:

http://clarksonathletics.com/news/2016/8/1/clarkson-mens-soccer-announces-class-of-2020.aspx?path=msoc

Hobart's new assistant coach:

http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2016/8/19/bednarsky-hired-as-hobart-soccer-assistant-coach.aspx

Union's Costa Rica trip:

http://www.unionathletics.com/news/2016/8/15/mens-soccer-opens-preseason-far-from-home.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 30, 2016, 11:07:15 AM
Let the games begin.

Here we go Blue!

http://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2016/8/30/MSOC_0830161927.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 30, 2016, 03:59:53 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on August 19, 2016, 06:28:19 PM
A little Friday afternoon net-surfing revealed a few interesting LL tidbits:

Clarkson's recruiting class:

http://clarksonathletics.com/news/2016/8/1/clarkson-mens-soccer-announces-class-of-2020.aspx?path=msoc

Hobart's new assistant coach:

http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2016/8/19/bednarsky-hired-as-hobart-soccer-assistant-coach.aspx

Union's Costa Rica trip:

http://www.unionathletics.com/news/2016/8/15/mens-soccer-opens-preseason-far-from-home.aspx





I must say on paper that looks to be a great class for Clarkson. 4-5 of them come from soccer rich areas and from very good club and HS teams. Now who knows but for Clarkson this is a start and we should get a good read on opening week-end against Brockport and Ithaca and then Plattsburgh. They should have a higher than usual SOS this year, maybe a .575. A reasonable goal would be to try to sneak in the LL playoffs as the #4 seed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 30, 2016, 04:05:43 PM
I have been saying this for years but with a 9 team league now and possibly 10 if they can get Ithaca a 4 team LL playoff is just insane. A team like Bard's season could be over by the beginning of October. It can be terribly deflating. If they can get to a 10 team league then a 8 team play-off would not be unreasonable as Nescac used to do it or give the #1 seed a bye and automatic hosting and play #2 v #7 , #3 v #6 and #4 v #5.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on August 30, 2016, 05:11:26 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on August 30, 2016, 04:05:43 PM
I have been saying this for years but with a 9 team league now and possibly 10 if they can get Ithaca a 4 team LL playoff is just insane. A team like Bard's season could be over by the beginning of October. It can be terribly deflating. If they can get to a 10 team league then a 8 team play-off would not be unreasonable as Nescac used to do it or give the #1 seed a bye and automatic hosting and play #2 v #7 , #3 v #6 and #4 v #5.

Or already go with a 5-team (with a #4-#5 playing game) or 6-team (with byes for top 2 seeds) playoff.  Given the depth and parity of the league, expanding from four teams to five  or six is reasonable, even at 9 total teams.  I personally tend to prefer the regular season to mean more, so I'm content with a 4-team playoff in all cases and not a big fan of the 7- or 8-team playoff for a 10-team league. 

And here's an interesting thing to think about.  If the LL playoffs had been a 7-team affair last year and #7 seed RPI had lost to #2 Hobart in the quarterfinals, would they have gotten an at-large berth with the additional loss sitting at 12-6-3?  Sitting out the conference playoffs may have been better for RPI than a quarterfinal or even a semifinal loss, who knows.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on August 30, 2016, 05:16:21 PM
I'm pretty sure the proposal before the LL is that next year when Ithaca joins, the men's soccer playoffs will go to a six-team format.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Christan Shirk on August 30, 2016, 05:34:41 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on August 30, 2016, 05:16:21 PM
I'm pretty sure the proposal before the LL is that next year when Ithaca joins, the men's soccer playoffs will go to a six-team format.
When the original announcement was made about Ithaca joining the Liberty League it said the move would "occur no later than the 2018-19 academic year".  Has there been any subsequent information about the move happening for next year?  If so, I should include it in the Upcoming Changes section of my What's new for the 2016 season? (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2016/new-in-2016) article.  In fact, regardless, I should probably have included it.  Might still do so.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on August 30, 2016, 06:28:13 PM
FW, what format one prefers may depend for some on which teams they follow and how competitive that conference is.  In a perennially very strong conference I lean towards preferring more rather than less making conference playoffs, perhaps with regular season champ getting an AQ at least in some conferences, and then another bid to playoff winner.  In the Nescac, for instance, it means a lot to the teams that grab the #7 and #8 seeds with at least a puncher's chance to pull an upset.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on August 31, 2016, 12:50:21 AM
Quote from: NCAC New England on August 30, 2016, 06:28:13 PM
FW, what format one prefers may depend for some on which teams they follow and how competitive that conference is.  In a perennially very strong conference I lean towards preferring more rather than less making conference playoffs, perhaps with regular season champ getting an AQ at least in some conferences, and then another bid to playoff winner.  In the Nescac, for instance, it means a lot to the teams that grab the #7 and #8 seeds with at least a puncher's chance to pull an upset.

I know why some teams and their fans would want more playoff spots--that's pretty obvious.  I was just giving my unbiased preference as a neutral.

And are you talking about two automatic berths for some conference?  If so, that changes things and I might feel differently about the size of conference tournaments if an AQ was already given to the regular season champ.  But that's not what we currently have.   

Under the current tournament arrangement with one, and only one, automatic berth per conference (whether strong or weak) and thus minimal at-large berths, I'm simply not a fan of #7 or #8 seeds in a conference having the chance to in essence take an at-large berth away from a more deserving team if they pull the upsets to steal the AQ dropping the conference favorite into Pool C and knocking someone off the bubble.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on August 31, 2016, 10:01:07 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on August 31, 2016, 12:50:21 AM
Quote from: NCAC New England on August 30, 2016, 06:28:13 PM
FW, what format one prefers may depend for some on which teams they follow and how competitive that conference is.  In a perennially very strong conference I lean towards preferring more rather than less making conference playoffs, perhaps with regular season champ getting an AQ at least in some conferences, and then another bid to playoff winner.  In the Nescac, for instance, it means a lot to the teams that grab the #7 and #8 seeds with at least a puncher's chance to pull an upset.

I know why some teams and their fans would want more playoff spots--that's pretty obvious.  I was just giving my unbiased preference as a neutral.

And are you talking about two automatic berths for some conference?  If so, that changes things and I might feel differently about the size of conference tournaments if an AQ was already given to the regular season champ.  But that's not what we currently have.   

Under the current tournament arrangement with one, and only one, automatic berth per conference (whether strong or weak) and thus minimal at-large berths, I'm simply not a fan of #7 or #8 seeds in a conference having the chance to in essence take an at-large berth away from a more deserving team if they pull the upsets to steal the AQ dropping the conference favorite into Pool C and knocking someone off the bubble.

Yeah, I was thinking of an AQ for regular season champ for some conferences (and so 2 AQs) although I know that's unrealistic given the difficulty of deciding who would get those beyond NESCAC, UAA and NJAC.  I also was thinking about it primarily from a player experience perspective.  Going somewhere for 4 years and never having any shot at all is tough.  I personally like the idea of the 4v5 game for a conference like the NCAC and 6 team playoffs for a few others.

As an aside, I didn't realize you are a neutral?!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on August 31, 2016, 10:59:43 AM
Except for the Commonwealth, I'm a neutral for the other 40+ men's and women's conferences.

And, yeah, I'm not coming at the conference tournaments from a student-athlete/team perspective.  And I'm seeing it within the context of the NCAA tournament berth system.  If the conference tournaments weren't directly tied into the AQ's, maybe I'd feel differently about them. 

Regardless, my preference doesn't count for anything.  The conference tournaments and AQs belong to the each conference and their members get to decide what they want.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 31, 2016, 05:22:55 PM
In the top 4-5 leagues like Nescac, NJAC, etc usually the winner of the league during season play gets a Pool C anyway. I just feel that allowing most, NOT ALL but most teams to participate in their respective conference tournaments give teams that have struggled early, been unlucky, gotten burned by some ref calls, serious injury issues early on, etc allows them to get 1 more chance at getting into the NCAA's. Teams have something to play for all year and makes for better team bonding, practicing harder, playing harder, etc if the team feels they still have a chance at the NCAA's.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on September 01, 2016, 10:12:15 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on August 31, 2016, 05:22:55 PM
In the top 4-5 leagues like Nescac, NJAC, etc usually the winner of the league during season play gets a Pool C anyway. I just feel that allowing most, NOT ALL but most teams to participate in their respective conference tournaments give teams that have struggled early, been unlucky, gotten burned by some ref calls, serious injury issues early on, etc allows them to get 1 more chance at getting into the NCAA's. Teams have something to play for all year and makes for better team bonding, practicing harder, playing harder, etc if the team feels they still have a chance at the NCAA's.

6 team playoff once Ithaca enters is reasonable. With the top 2 seeds getting a bye,I'd think that the 3v6 and 4v5 games would be on a Saturday, with the Semifinals the following Wednesday, and then the final Saturday.  I could see the top seeds complaining about potentially 10 days without a match, but not sure there's much of a way around that (I believe that's how the SUNYAC does it).  At the end of the day, hopefully it allows LL teams to strengthen their out of conference schedules with the knowledge that they'll more than likely have a shot at the league playoff auto-bid.

Still don't think this changes much, as the top teams each year seem to really dominate at home.

Here we go Saints.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 01, 2016, 11:04:49 AM
Enjoying this conversation and also excited to see 2016 season start up (with several LL teams playing today)!

Not sure how much a six-team (v. a four-team) playoff structure matters to NCAA selection. 
Bigger factor is strength of schedule.

Clearly Hobart got the message on SOS given their schedule this year: something SLU and RPI have, for years, been doing better than many of the teams in the LL.

Not so sure that Union, Skidmore and Vassar have done enough to make their SOS competitive v. the second or third place SUNYAC teams, or against Rochester or Ithaca (in its last year in Empire 8), come November.  Pretty sure we'll return to this point in late October....

As an aside, had Hobart prevailed against Skidmore in the 2015 playoff game, the SOS calculations would still have had RPI more highly ranked.... Skidmore's team would have been that tiny bit less upset they did not receive an invite, but Hobart's team would have likely been more upset when the invite went to RPI....

This said, I'd like to think that the addition of a 62cd team in NCAA tournament (a 19th pool c team), the LL should be able to count on two teams getting in each year.

Returning to play-off team format, I suspect coaches want the six team format to provide more opportunity, more attention and to get more practice.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2016, 05:38:55 PM
Solid start for a couple possible surprise teams in LL this year.

Union dominated and dismantled Utica, an average to below average Empire 8 team but still a decent side 5-0. Good start for a youNg team on the move. To bad their schedule was not a BIT more challenging out of conference as this side would benefit from it going into league play.

Clarkson a big 2-0 win over Ithaca at home. Did not see the game but stats seemed even and Clarkson grabs a good win. They have a good out of conference schedule so this will only give them confidence.

Anyone catch the SLU 3-1 win over Brockport? Report?  Either way good start for SLU and that win could become helpful down the road.

Waiting on Hobart v Etown but I expect them to get a result even on the road and a draw would be fine as well.

RPI grabs a disappointing draw 1-1 with Sage as it looks like they gave up their 1-0 lead late. I would be willing to bet RPI has more 0 and 1 goal games than anyone in the country the past 5 years, Draws are not the end of the world but gotta re-focus.

RIT grabs a 2-0 win also.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 02, 2016, 05:47:55 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 02, 2016, 05:38:55 PM
Anyone catch the SLU 3-1 wi n over Brockport? Report?  Either way good start for SLU and that win could become helpful sown the road.

I saw a bunch of the game online.  Brockport worked hard and could have had another goal, but there was just too much talent on the field for SLU.  SLU is going to win a few games in true blow-out fashion this year, as they had numerous near misses today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2016, 06:19:35 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on September 02, 2016, 05:47:55 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 02, 2016, 05:38:55 PM
Anyone catch the SLU 3-1 wi n over Brockport? Report?  Either way good start for SLU and that win could become helpful sown the road.

I saw a bunch of the game online.  Brockport worked hard and could have had another goal, but there was just too much talent on the field for SLU.  SLU is going to win a few games in true blow-out fashion this year, as they had numerous near misses today.


How talented are they this year? Did they look like the NCAA Sweet 16 teams this past decade or maybe the Elite 8 Final 4 teams of the early 2000's?  Or do we not know yet?  What the frosh look like?


If the stream is decent I will watch the Hobart game tonight and am curious to see Messiah open up. will they be vastly improved from 2015? GK situation hopefully improved? etc etc
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 02, 2016, 06:36:28 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 02, 2016, 06:19:35 PMHow talented are they this year? Did they look like the NCAA Sweet 16 teams this past decade or maybe the Elite 8 Final 4 teams of the early 2000's?  Or do we not know yet?  What the frosh look like?

It's too early to tell.  Smith was solid in goal, and I think it will take time for the Dorney/Brandell center back tandem to gel.  Among first-year players, Sinclair caught my eye.  Augustine looks ready to come into his own.  The pieces seem to be there for the team to make a deep run in the tournament, but there's a lot of chemistry to be built between now and then.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 02, 2016, 10:17:28 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 02, 2016, 06:19:35 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on September 02, 2016, 05:47:55 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 02, 2016, 05:38:55 PM
Anyone catch the SLU 3-1 wi n over Brockport? Report?  Either way good start for SLU and that win could become helpful sown the road.

I saw a bunch of the game online.  Brockport worked hard and could have had another goal, but there was just too much talent on the field for SLU.  SLU is going to win a few games in true blow-out fashion this year, as they had numerous near misses today.


How talented are they this year? Did they look like the NCAA Sweet 16 teams this past decade or maybe the Elite 8 Final 4 teams of the early 2000's?  Or do we not know yet?  What the frosh look like?


If the stream is decent I will watch the Hobart game tonight and am curious to see Messiah open up. will they be vastly improved from 2015? GK situation hopefully improved? etc etc


Ignore my username bias for a bit here, but this year's SLU team is quite talented.  I'd say it's too early to judge/compare to teams of the past, but there's lots of potential. They are an extremely fast team, fastest that I can remember really.  Copeland was pretty much impossible to replace, but Steve Dorney is anchoring the back line at 6'5".  While not as offensively prolific as Copeland was, he'll be one of the better defenders in the league.   Senior Noah Bunton looks like he as taken the next step in terms of talent and leadership.  He looked like a bona fide #10 on the field today, and dare I say looked similar to Sam Demello.  Extremely technical, pacey and a great goal off a 30 yard shot.   Jethro Dede won LL ROTY last season, and has solidified himself has one of the league's best DMs.  The striker position may be the only spot that's not completely solidified.  Augustine/Kelly are the top strikers right now, but it'll be interesting to see if they take the next step this  year.  Freshman class does not have a lot of immediate impact players, but Jevaughn Sinclair is one of the fastest players I've ever seen wear a SLU kit.  He is a player to keep a close eye on, and may be the next Saint of Old out on the right wing. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 03, 2016, 03:32:40 PM
SLU nicks an OT win against Ithaca 2-1.  Looked like Tosh was resting some guys and Dede didn't play the 2nd half, hope it was just a knock and nothing long term, we really missed him at the end of last year.  Good to get more guys playing time, this team may be deeper than I originally thought.  Clarkson also knocks off Brockport 1-0.  Would be great to see them compete this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 03, 2016, 08:58:19 PM
Great early test for the boyz.
Overall a good weekend for St. Lawrence.
The Senior class looks extremely hungry.

Sinclair will wear the #7 shirt soon I think :)

Saints not quite firing on all cylinders but still managed two wins.

Ithaca is a good team, and will cause people some trouble this year.
Same for Brockport. It seems they were unlucky not to not get a result at Clarkson.

How good is Clarkson?
Are they for real this year?

RPI also off to their normal good start.

Hobart seems to have stumbled, but have had bad starts over the past few seasons and bounced back well.

Bard with early results, but how good is their competition.
Ditto for Union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 03, 2016, 09:35:49 PM
A tough start at home for Skidmore against a strong Cortland side.  An opportunity to rebound follows in a few days...

Saint and stlawus--What's the scoop on the Dartmouth transfer?  Will he be playing this season?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 04, 2016, 03:23:32 AM
Quote from: Ommadawn on September 03, 2016, 09:35:49 PM
A tough start at home for Skidmore against a strong Cortland side.  An opportunity to rebound follows in a few days...

Saint and stlawus--What's the scoop on the Dartmouth transfer?  Will he be playing this season?

As far as I'm aware there's no transfer from Dartmouth, unless you're referring to the transfer from the University of New Hampshire, Tanner Tomasi.  I assumed he would be eligible this year but I'm not quite certain, I think he might be sitting out the season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 05, 2016, 03:28:04 PM
Hobart played well v. Dickinson but struggled to put ball in net.  An excuse, not a reason, may be that several Friday starters had limited playing due to minor injuries picked up via Elizabethtown. Credit to Dickinson for finding a way to get a result.

Elizabethtown and their #2 (Waso -- who deserves the all-american accolades) will be very tough this year.  Waso is VERY crafty and with a burst of speed that does not get seen much on D3 pitches. They press and are committed to ball and approach.  And, they are fine with lots of contact. This noted, until last 15 minutes (when Hobart subbed off defenders to get more into attack and that did not go well) Hobart possessed, but did ... not ... score. This may get reported a few more times.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2016, 12:01:57 AM
Seems like a heartbreaking loss for Clarkson today losing in 2OT to Plattsburgh. They are 2-1-0 against solid competition but 2-0-1 would have been much sweeter. Seems like a good young coaching staff up there is getting this program heading in the right direction.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2016, 12:09:44 AM
Most disappointing team in the East region so far is Hobart. Losing to a "Football" school who could care one sniff about soccer, St. John Fischer 3-1 in Hobart's home opener is disappointing to say the least. 0-2-1 after 3 is tough and they are going to have to reel off a 5 to 6 game win streak to get back into the conversation.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 07, 2016, 10:43:40 PM
Quote from: stlawus on September 04, 2016, 03:23:32 AMAs far as I'm aware there's no transfer from Dartmouth, unless you're referring to the transfer from the University of New Hampshire, Tanner Tomasi.  I assumed he would be eligible this year but I'm not quite certain, I think he might be sitting out the season.

Yes, that's exactly who I was referring to (sorry about the brain fart regarding his previous institution--I'll chalk it up to "roster perusal fatigue").  Thanks for the scoop.  He didn't play in his first year at UNH and wasn't on the roster last year, so I would think that he'll have a ton of eligibility left.  He was listed on the Saints' roster when the season started, but seems to have been deleted shortly thereafter. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2016, 03:33:52 PM
RPI loses to Manhattanville 1-0 on a last minute goal. RPI sits at 1-1-1 after 3 games against weak competition. They should really have looked to and expected to win those first 3 games. They look like they are struggling to score as usual and have some really tough games coming up. This could be a down year for them. I still cannot believe they got into the NCAA's over Hobart last year. Mind boggling.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2016, 05:44:11 PM
Clarkson hanging tough with Geneseo St...0-0 10 minutes left. I have been tuning in and out but a fairly even game...Both teams hoofin a bit but both teams are going to be a tough out this year. Fairly even game
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on September 09, 2016, 05:55:56 PM
Potential important gauge of strength tomorrow for both teams, when Union plays a strong UMass-Boston side on neutral turf at MCLA.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2016, 05:58:35 PM
WOW....Clarkson scores off a set piece to go up 1-0 with 2 minutes left. They faked it and everyone moved then re-hit it right away and Geneseo St was caught flat footed. Nice flick in header to win the game by Clarkson and an interesting set piece that left Geneseo players stunned. They are now 3-1-0 and have some good wins. They will definitely be vying for that 3rd or 4th spot in LL playoffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2016, 06:02:32 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on September 09, 2016, 05:55:56 PM
Potential important gauge of strength tomorrow for both teams, when Union plays a strong UMass-Boston side on neutral turf at MCLA.



Excellent point. Both teams are 3-0-0 but have not really played quality opposition yet. This game will give us more of an idea about both teams. The winner should win the Sunday contest as well so 1 of the teams would be 5-0-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2016, 06:07:18 PM
1 more thing about Clarkson. They are really playing stingy defense giving up 1 goal in 4 games against 3 good SUNYAC schools and Ithaca . This program has had such a tough stretch the past 10 years, so it makes for a good story line.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 09, 2016, 07:06:38 PM
SLU up 1-0 less than a minute into the game against St. John Fisher.  Jevaughn Sinclair is wreaking absolute havoc on the right flank.  One of the fastest players I have ever seen wear the scarlet and brown.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 10, 2016, 03:50:15 PM
Crazy turn of events in the SLU-Geneseo game.  Geneseo went up 1-0 off a corner early in the 2nd half, and then with 17 minutes left SLU equalizes.  Less than a minute later SLU gets breakaway but is yanked down by the keeper who gets a red.  SLU converts the PK.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 10, 2016, 04:12:01 PM
Final in Geneseo is SLU 4, Geneseo 1.  Toshack rested a few key players last night against St. John Fisher and it paid off today.  All 4 goals coming in the last 17 minutes by players that didn't play last night. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 11, 2016, 08:58:58 PM
So after three weekends, two undefeated LL teams--SLU and Vassar.  Both teams are doing it with defense and well-balanced scoring, as well as demonstrating an ability to come from behind.  For SLU this is no surprise.  Vassar has plugged a bunch of holes with some excellent new talent.  Neither has played a particularly difficult schedule, and the Plattsburg and Oneonta games this week will tell more about the teams and the likelihood that they remain at the top of the table at the end of the league season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 12, 2016, 02:55:01 PM
Vassar and SLU seem set for the LL playoff.
I might need to revise my prediction for the league finishes after the weekend if Clarkson continues their good play.

Disappointing so far from Hobart and Skidmore, but I still feel like they will be fighting for a spot in the end.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2016, 12:11:58 PM
Big Big win for Hobart to get off the mark with a good come from behind win over Potsdam Bears. Potsdam is very impressive and will have a good year despite suffering their forst loss.

Oneonta dealt with RPI.
RPI will rebound, I still see them making the league championship.

Clarkson loses to a VERY GOOD Cortland side, and perhaps will now come back to earth a bit.

They have a good keeper, and I might have to re-evaluate leaving them off the league playoffs in early season prediction.
They will atleast be on the bubble, perhaps taking up a spot traditionally belonging to Skidmore.

Game of the week has to be Cortland v. SLU on Saturday.
Should be a very even game, maybe for top spot in the East come next standings.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 16, 2016, 04:56:11 PM
SLU and Oswego 0-0 at the half on what appears to be a beautiful afternoon in Canton, NY.  A few chances for both sides. The Saints seem to be resting a bunch of starters (Augustine, Bunton, Suitor, etc.) in anticipation of tomorrow's tilt with Cortland.  SLU had a couple of shaky passes in back, but Oswego could not capitalize.  I look for SLU to flip the switch and get it going in the second half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2016, 05:52:20 PM
Very late PK conversion for SLU with 2 minutes left.  Oswego had a great chance with a minute left but Schierbeek came up big with a save on a corner.  As mentioned above, Tosh rested a lot of starters.  This strategy paid off last weekend as well.  Rather grind out an ugly win early in the season in exchange for a deep, well rested bench come playoff time.  Should be a great game tomorrow!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 18, 2016, 09:43:41 AM
Am worried that LL teams are playing themselves into one dance spot--again.  SLU is consistent, not winning big but winning is enough.  Hobart, RPI and Skidmore have all floundered and unless they get the AQ are pretty much done.  Clarkson has lost a couple heartbreakers that also take them out of at-large contention.  Vassar came back to the pack giving up 4 in the second half of what could have been a defining tilt against Oneonta.  Yes Bard is undefeated but against what competition? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 18, 2016, 06:44:53 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 18, 2016, 09:43:41 AM
Am worried that LL teams are playing themselves into one dance spot--again. 

I could not agree more with your assessment, deutschfan.  After perusing the results yesterday, I was left with the same impression.  I think that as is often the case, the only way that the LL will get two teams in the NCAA tournament is if a team other than SLU wins the league tournament.  At this point, I think the chances of that happening are far less than 50%.

On a related matter, Hobart pulled out a hard-earned 2-2 tie with Geneseo after going a man down on a red card and a goal down shortly thereafter.  The Statesmen actually rallied to take a 2-1 lead after falling in a 1-0 hole, but were not able to prevent their full-sided opponent from equalizing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 19, 2016, 06:49:39 AM
Quote from: Ommadawn on September 16, 2016, 04:56:11 PM
SLU and Oswego 0-0 at the half on what appears to be a beautiful afternoon in Canton, NY.  A few chances for both sides. The Saints seem to be resting a bunch of starters (Augustine, Bunton, Suitor, etc.) in anticipation of tomorrow's tilt with Cortland.  SLU had a couple of shaky passes in back, but Oswego could not capitalize.  I look for SLU to flip the switch and get it going in the second half.


I just do not agree with this approach by SLU's coach. You never rest starters before the game begins against anyone. That alone is sending a message to your team that you are playing a weak opponent and they might as well take the day off. Always start your starters and let them get a quick lead then you REST them. I believe he got burned doing this last year as well and he will get burned again doing it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 19, 2016, 10:11:43 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 19, 2016, 06:49:39 AM
Quote from: Ommadawn on September 16, 2016, 04:56:11 PM
SLU and Oswego 0-0 at the half on what appears to be a beautiful afternoon in Canton, NY.  A few chances for both sides. The Saints seem to be resting a bunch of starters (Augustine, Bunton, Suitor, etc.) in anticipation of tomorrow's tilt with Cortland.  SLU had a couple of shaky passes in back, but Oswego could not capitalize.  I look for SLU to flip the switch and get it going in the second half.


I just do not agree with this approach by SLU's coach. You never rest starters before the game begins against anyone. That alone is sending a message to your team that you are playing a weak opponent and they might as well take the day off. Always start your starters and let them get a quick lead then you REST them. I believe he got burned doing this last year as well and he will get burned again doing it.

Normally I would agree, as I felt the same last year.  But in recent years SLU has been bitten by the injury bug pretty hard.  The last 3 seasons have seen players drop like flies.  I think this approach is two fold: keep players fresh for conference play and also reduce risk of injury come tournament time.  Last year Ryan Grant went down early in the season and didn't return until half way through.  Dede suffered an injury in the LL tourney and was largely ineffective throughout the NCAA tournament.  Let's also not forget that 2014's leading scorer, Rob Brandell, missed the entire season due to a broken leg. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on September 19, 2016, 11:39:55 AM
Quote from: stlawus on September 19, 2016, 10:11:43 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 19, 2016, 06:49:39 AM
Quote from: Ommadawn on September 16, 2016, 04:56:11 PM
SLU and Oswego 0-0 at the half on what appears to be a beautiful afternoon in Canton, NY.  A few chances for both sides. The Saints seem to be resting a bunch of starters (Augustine, Bunton, Suitor, etc.) in anticipation of tomorrow's tilt with Cortland.  SLU had a couple of shaky passes in back, but Oswego could not capitalize.  I look for SLU to flip the switch and get it going in the second half.


I just do not agree with this approach by SLU's coach. You never rest starters before the game begins against anyone. That alone is sending a message to your team that you are playing a weak opponent and they might as well take the day off. Always start your starters and let them get a quick lead then you REST them. I believe he got burned doing this last year as well and he will get burned again doing it.

Normally I would agree, as I felt the same last year.  But in recent years SLU has been bitten by the injury bug pretty hard.  The last 3 seasons have seen players drop like flies.  I think this approach is two fold: keep players fresh for conference play and also reduce risk of injury come tournament time.  Last year Ryan Grant went down early in the season and didn't return until half way through.  Dede suffered an injury in the LL tourney and was largely ineffective throughout the NCAA tournament.  Let's also not forget that 2014's leading scorer, Rob Brandell, missed the entire season due to a broken leg.

Or way back in 2011 when 3 of our starting forwards had torn ACLs. Or in 2012 when DeMello got an injury which left him out of the NCAAs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 19, 2016, 11:44:42 AM
In Coach Tosh we trust :)

I do understand the frustration of not playing your "starters".
I think that in order to win a championship in this day and age, and maybe forever, a team needs close to 20 starters.
Each and every person on a roster must be able to contribute at a high level to be very successful at this level.

I do think the goal of the Saints is one thing only:
Win the Conference and then go from there.
If this is in the back of your head you play the season very differently.

Added bonus is a team is more difficult to scout if personnel can interchange at the discretion of the Coach.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 19, 2016, 02:10:03 PM
It is hard to get data on injuries and players across D3 in order to get a sense of the prevalence.
I'm familiar with https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/NCAA_M_Soccer_Injuries_WEB.pdf (and other sources like http://www.drdavidgeier.com/mens-soccer-injuries-ncaa/ and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3418955/).

These make it seem as if injuries are relatively rare (if there are ~8 injuries per 1000, and the average soccer squad has 33 people rostered, that would be one injury on every fourth team, or one major injury every four years per team). The data from St. Lawrence reported here would be much greater than the national average.  But it also resonates with what I'm seeing.

For the past decade we've been working with several dozen kids heading into college soccer. With many now graduated and others entering or in the midst of their college careers, my observation is that the prevalence of injury is higher than reported (every one of the kids we have helped has missed playing time with an injury, most from in-game events).  Using data from four teams where I have the most familiarity, they are averaging six injuries each season (concussions, lower-leg (knee/ankle) and some arm and shoulder damage (from falling or being tangled up).  On each of the teams, at least two kids each year seem to be missing most or all of the season for these injuries. 

it _seems_ that many of the private colleges are carrying larger rosters (in the low-to-mid 30's) than a decade back (when I first started paying more attention, and team sizes were high 20's up to 30). Not sure if this is a trend, or just that I am fitting facts to my belief system. But, one reason for doing so is to accommodate more injuries.

I saw posted in another thread (believe it was the National Perspective) an analysis of yellow and red cards earned by various teams, with the implication that aggressive behavior is on the rise (and cards are a proxy for this) -- and that it may be helping teams to win.  Readers on this thread are no stranger to the level of contact in both LL and SUNYAC games (and even more when the game brings together both an LL and a SUNYAC team).  Increased aggression is related to more contact (and more chances to be injured)....

Given the competitive nature of the LL (and SUNYAC), and that injuries are twice as likely to occur in games, it may be prudent to limit the potential for damage.  So, I'd be ok with coaches protecting players even as they build bench depth (and make it harder to be scouted).
Not so much a commentary on the opponent as a commentary on the changing nature of the game.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on September 19, 2016, 03:09:38 PM
Quote from: Part_Bart on September 19, 2016, 02:10:03 PM
It is hard to get data on injuries and players across D3 in order to get a sense of the prevalence.
I'm familiar with https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/NCAA_M_Soccer_Injuries_WEB.pdf (and other sources like http://www.drdavidgeier.com/mens-soccer-injuries-ncaa/ and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3418955/).

These make it seem as if injuries are relatively rare (if there are ~8 injuries per 1000, and the average soccer squad has 33 people rostered, that would be one injury on every fourth team, or one major injury every four years per team). The data from St. Lawrence reported here would be much greater than the national average.  But it also resonates with what I'm seeing.

For the past decade we've been working with several dozen kids heading into college soccer. With many now graduated and others entering or in the midst of their college careers, my observation is that the prevalence of injury is higher than reported (every one of the kids we have helped has missed playing time with an injury, most from in-game events).  Using data from four teams where I have the most familiarity, they are averaging six injuries each season (concussions, lower-leg (knee/ankle) and some arm and shoulder damage (from falling or being tangled up).  On each of the teams, at least two kids each year seem to be missing most or all of the season for these injuries. 

it _seems_ that many of the private colleges are carrying larger rosters (in the low-to-mid 30's) than a decade back (when I first started paying more attention, and team sizes were high 20's up to 30). Not sure if this is a trend, or just that I am fitting facts to my belief system. But, one reason for doing so is to accommodate more injuries.

I saw posted in another thread (believe it was the National Perspective) an analysis of yellow and red cards earned by various teams, with the implication that aggressive behavior is on the rise (and cards are a proxy for this) -- and that it may be helping teams to win.  Readers on this thread are no stranger to the level of contact in both LL and SUNYAC games (and even more when the game brings together both an LL and a SUNYAC team).  Increased aggression is related to more contact (and more chances to be injured)....

Given the competitive nature of the LL (and SUNYAC), and that injuries are twice as likely to occur in games, it may be prudent to limit the potential for damage.  So, I'd be ok with coaches protecting players even as they build bench depth (and make it harder to be scouted).
Not so much a commentary on the opponent as a commentary on the changing nature of the game.

College soccer is not quite the NFL, but every player who gets regular playing time gets injured during the season.  For some, that means only requiring treatment (as opposed to missing playing time), but injuries are a fact of life.

Other factors that you have not considered to explain larger roster sizes are (i) the elimination of JV or Freshman teams; and (ii) the desire to have at least 22 players present every day at practice (due to class and laboratory obligations).  With respect to the loss of JV or Freshman programs, coaches naturally will keep larger rosters, so as not to preclude the continued development of younger players who might otherwise miss an entire season or cease playing competitively altogether if varsity rosters were limited to 22-25 players.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 20, 2016, 08:48:28 PM
SLU-Plattsburgh tied up at 1 with 15 minutes left.  What an absolutely awful 2nd half by SLU, wow.  Plattsburgh is playing great, but man, SLU just keeps giving the ball away and have awful first touches.  Entertaining game thus far.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 20, 2016, 09:25:23 PM
What a finish to SLU-Plattsburgh.  Less than a minute left in the 1st OT and Dede buries the game winner off a free kick.  SLU just finding ways to win games.  2 straight game winners for the reigning LL ROY.  Plattsburgh played a great 2nd half.  Had SLU rattled and forced a lot of give aways. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 20, 2016, 11:20:06 PM
I checked out the game a couple of times on Live Stats, once at the half and once near the end of regulation.  It was certainly a tale of two halves statistically, with almost complete domination by SLU in the first half and nearly a mirror image opposite in the second half (presumably driven by Plattsburgh upping their game and SLU making the mistakes stlawus alluded to).  SLU is doing a great job winning the close games and the season is shaping up as a potentially special one, even by SLU's lofty standards.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on September 21, 2016, 09:27:42 AM
SLU-Plattsburgh has NCAA 2nd round @SLU written all over it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 21, 2016, 11:05:46 AM
Plattsburgh will have to beat Cortland or Oneonta to get a Pool C. They NEEDED that draw yesterday. Their SOS will be weak at best and wins against ranked will be 0 w/o beating either of those 2 teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 23, 2016, 05:41:08 PM
Oneonta just spanked Cortland.  Weekend predictions:  SLU 2, Hob 0; Vas 1, Skid 0; Bard 1, Union 1; Clarkson 1, RIT 0.  As noted in earlier posts, RPI, Hob, and Skid are the three most disappointing teams as most of us had them in the LL playoffs with SLU.  Hob doesn't need to beat SLU to make the LL playoffs so this is a match for Hob to regain some respect.  Skid's season likely rises or falls on this home game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 24, 2016, 11:40:02 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 23, 2016, 05:41:08 PM
Oneonta just spanked Cortland.  Weekend predictions:  SLU 2, Hob 0; Vas 1, Skid 0; Bard 1, Union 1; Clarkson 1, RIT 0.  As noted in earlier posts, RPI, Hob, and Skid are the three most disappointing teams as most of us had them in the LL playoffs with SLU.  Hob doesn't need to beat SLU to make the LL playoffs so this is a match for Hob to regain some respect.  Skid's season likely rises or falls on this home game.

That's a great set of picks, deutschfan! I think Union might get by Bard (2-1?) and Skidmore might be able to salvage a draw at home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 24, 2016, 03:43:34 PM
Hobart goes up 1-0 at the end of the first half.  SLU looks absolutely atrocious.  One of the worst halves of soccer I've seen them play in the last few years. I knew Hobart's record was misleading, they're always a threat against SLU in conference play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 24, 2016, 04:54:43 PM
What an absolutely awful game by SLU.  Hobart just delivered this team a swift kick in the unmentionables.  It looks like the Statesmen have turned their season around.  I'm not "panicking" by any means but this SLU team needs to go back to basics.  The last few games have seen a plethora of misplayed passes, heavy first touches and extremely poor finishing.  I fear this team's continuous lack of a definitive #9 may come back to haunt this team down the road.  The program still hasn't replaced Gilloran. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 24, 2016, 10:47:11 PM
Yea I saw Hobart quite a bit last year and was surprised at their shaky start to the season. They have talent all over that roster, maybe they did not come back fit but I fully expect them to be right there at the end of the season. I am more concerned with RPI and Skidmore. RPI is so offensively challenged this year and Skidmore I have not seen yet but last year I really liked their athleticism and spine. Not sure if they have injuries or what but I was expecting a better start to the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 25, 2016, 12:06:17 AM
I caught a good bit of the Skidmore game.  Anchored by Oyeniyi, the back line is stout.  In the midfield going forward, Okoye is a threat to make something happen every time he gets the ball. He can only do so much on his own, though. Their trip to Western NY next week will play a big part in deciding the team's fate for the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 25, 2016, 12:10:58 AM
Quote from: Ommadawn on September 25, 2016, 12:06:17 AM
I caught a good bit of the Skidmore game.  Anchored by Oyeniyi, the back line is stout.  In the midfield going forward, Okoye is a threat to make something happen every time he gets the ball. He can only do so much on his own, though. Their trip to Western NY next week will play a big part in deciding the team's fate for the season.


Yes...those 2 players are studs and would start on any team. So the pieces around them have dropped off? Skidmore can be a challenge to recruit to, especially if you are not getting any help from admissions.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 25, 2016, 12:19:43 AM
Skidmore's leading assist-maker Santos was out today for some reason, and no one other than Okoye looked too dangerous on attack.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 25, 2016, 09:56:02 AM
Watched the Hobart @SLU game and was impressed with how SLU allowed a very depleted Hobart (five starters either limited or unable to play due to injury) dictate the game. Hobart packing it in behind the ball (essentially a 4-5-1) closed off the lanes and runs for SLU's great attaching threats, and then made visible some seams in SLU's defense during counters (four runs in first 30 minutes all led to shots or a goal). Despite monumental pressure by SLU in second half, Hobart outshot SLU. Would imagine that SLU sees such an approach more often, going forward.

Watched a bit of RPI draw Rochester at home (nice video stream!):  more packed in play by RPI.  Having seen Rochester come back from a goal down v. Hobart (with some impressive tackling, very physical play and strong attacking), kudos to Adam Clinton and RPI for staving off that attack and finding a result.

Having now seen Hobart play away at Elizabethtown, Rochester and now SLU, Rochester is easily the most complete team.  E-town can attack (fun to watch) and foul smartly on defense (not fun to watch).  SLU, well, it may not have been the best day to get a sense of them in person. I am very impressed by Rochester.  Rochester can be beat as back line is strong and large, but not fast enough to overcome good wing play.

Curious that both Clarkson/RIT and Skidmore/Vassar ended in draws (and a very organized Bard made it a game at Union).  Perhaps, over past several years, the speed and creativity of SLU's attack seems to have forced other LL teams to be a bit more defensive? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 25, 2016, 12:21:01 PM
Yes, the rest of the league really packs it in against SLU with the exception of a few games a year.  Last year Hobart didn't pack it in, and won.  This year, they did and still won.  Their coach just knows how to form a game plan.  SLU has one of the fastest teams I've ever seen play on Sandy, but they still haven't really put it all together.  There were questions about the back line this year since 2 of the program's best defenders graduated.  Questions still remain, clearly.  Hobart has speed as well, along with a good GK.  I expect to see them in the LL playoff, most likely the final. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 25, 2016, 08:21:10 PM
Big big win for the Statesmen.
I only saw about 20 minutes of the game, but from what I saw they deserved to win.

SLU needs a finisher to step up.
Could be #12/14 or 22 or at this point anyone, but an assertive get the ball in goal player is required.
Besides that, no need to panic, when this train begins to run right it will go far.

Union is in a great spot.
With 2 ties in the league it is really a leg up.

Bard will shock people this year.

We will know a lot more about how the league is going after this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 30, 2016, 01:00:47 PM
Today's Predictions:

SLU v Bard-----SLU just to much for Bard to handle...3-0 SLU

Clarkson v Vassar------This is a HUGE game for both teams to get into the top 4..Clarkson has cooled off but in the 1 game I watched Vassar I was not comopletely sold.....1-1 Draw

Hobart v Skidmore---Another monster game and a big rematch from last year. I think both teams have some serious athletes but Skidmore does not have enough solid role players around their top players. Hobart 2-1

RIT v RPI-------I have been really unimpressed with RPI this year...They are absolutely anemic up front and just cannot get goals from their midfield like they usually do. I have not seen RIT at all this year but I know enough about RPI to say they will get shutout..Can RIT score 1 goal to win it? Yes....RIT 1-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 30, 2016, 03:14:17 PM
A nice slate of afternoon games on tap for the first LL double-header weekend. I'll play the low field in my predictions for today:

SLU 2-0 over Bard

RPI ties RIT 0-0

Clarkson over Vassar 1-0

Hobart ties Skidmore 0-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on September 30, 2016, 04:50:42 PM
SLU all over Bard, but only creating 1-2 chances. An early goal in this second half would suit them well.  Starting to wonder if all this rotation is causing continuity issues?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 30, 2016, 05:01:00 PM
Not sure if it's doing that, big problem right now is simply finishing.  They should be burying some of these easy chances. Build up play is there, but no end product.  Finishing is criminal.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 30, 2016, 06:05:11 PM
No matter what happens by the end of OT between SLU and Bard, this game again highlights SLU's dire need for a proper striker.  Augustine blasts everything 20 yards over the cross bar.  Very poor from this team, I expect much more.  Bard holding their own for sure, but woeful end product from SLU. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 30, 2016, 06:13:58 PM
SLU prevails 1-0 in 2OT. Crouse heads in a Barral-Arteta corner.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 30, 2016, 06:43:33 PM
Hobart and Skidmore battled to a 0-0 draw, RIT bested RPI 2-1, and Vassar edged Clarkson 2-1.

There are sure to be some heavy legs tomorrow and roster depth will be tested.

With today's results in mind, here's how things might shake out tomorrow:

SLU comes out with ferocity and grabs a 3-1 victory over Vassar.

Perturbed by a home loss, Clarkson defeats a weary Bard 2-1.

Skidmore and RIT battle to a 1-1 draw.

Looking to claim a result from their journey to Western NY, RPI falls 1-0 to Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 30, 2016, 11:45:57 PM
SLU better start finishing because if Vassar beats them tomorrow and they do not win the conference and have say 4 losses by November they might have a Pool C issue. Their SOS will not be quite as strong as in years past and their record v ranked will not be spectacular. Vassar should be regionally ranked and possibly Plattsburgh but who else? Cortland did not impress me against Oneonta and SLU did not play Oneonta or their usual Rochester game which could come back to bite them. They NEED to beat Vassar tomorrow as it will be mighty important in November but if you look at SLU's schedule it is not as impressive as years past  IMO
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 01, 2016, 12:46:12 PM
All my picks were wrong last week but I am going to get back on the horse so to speak, at least for one game SLU v. Vassar.  Final--Vassar 2, SLU 1.  Vassar has come back in both of the LL games they played and don't give up.  They outshot Skidmore and Clarkson, two excellent defensive teams, by significant margins.  Vassar won last year, tied the year before, and will not be intimidated in the least.  SLU's advantage is depth, and greater skill in the midfield, but Vassar has been scoring, something that SLU has had major difficulty doing in their first two league games.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 01, 2016, 12:53:28 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 01, 2016, 12:46:12 PM
All my picks were wrong last week but I am going to get back on the horse so to speak, at least for one game SLU v. Vassar.  Final--Vassar 2, SLU 1.  Vassar has come back in both of the LL games they played and don't give up.  They outshot Skidmore and Clarkson, two excellent defensive teams, by significant margins.  Vassar won last year, tied the year before, and will not be intimidated in the least.  SLU's advantage is depth, and greater skill in the midfield, but Vassar has been scoring, something that SLU has had major difficulty doing in their first two league games.


Well if you are correct, I will stand by my statement that SLU would be on thin ice for a Pool C. I just would not see any wins against Regionally ranked teams.  The rest of the LL besides Vassar will not be regionally ranked in November IMO
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 01, 2016, 02:26:19 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 01, 2016, 12:53:28 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 01, 2016, 12:46:12 PM
All my picks were wrong last week but I am going to get back on the horse so to speak, at least for one game SLU v. Vassar.  Final--Vassar 2, SLU 1.  Vassar has come back in both of the LL games they played and don't give up.  They outshot Skidmore and Clarkson, two excellent defensive teams, by significant margins.  Vassar won last year, tied the year before, and will not be intimidated in the least.  SLU's advantage is depth, and greater skill in the midfield, but Vassar has been scoring, something that SLU has had major difficulty doing in their first two league games.


Well if you are correct, I will stand by my statement that SLU would be on thin ice for a Pool C. I just would not see any wins against Regionally ranked teams.  The rest of the LL besides Vassar will not be regionally ranked in November IMO

Well Mr. Right perhaps Coach Tosh has been reading our posts on here because Brendan McNamee just scored a half volley laser to put SLU up early in the 1st half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 01, 2016, 04:05:05 PM
Weekend sweep for the Saints with two 1-0 wins.  Coach Tosh got ejected today, and was an all around chippy game.  Vassar has some talent up front.  If they won against Oneonta they might have had an outside shot at pool C. 

Skidmore had an impressive 2-0 win against RIT, the same goes for Clarkson against Bard. 

RPI shocks Hobart 2-0 in Geneva.  Can say that I did not expect that result.  Pretty even LL this year, going to be an exciting month of October. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 03, 2016, 03:30:49 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 01, 2016, 04:05:05 PM
Weekend sweep for the Saints with two 1-0 wins.  Coach Tosh got ejected today, and was an all around chippy game.  Vassar has some talent up front.  If they won against Oneonta they might have had an outside shot at pool C. 

Skidmore had an impressive 2-0 win against RIT, the same goes for Clarkson against Bard. 

RPI shocks Hobart 2-0 in Geneva.  Can say that I did not expect that result.  Pretty even LL this year, going to be an exciting month of October.

Hobart played second half of RPI game with 10 men (center back earned a red card with 12 seconds left in first half). Until then, Hobart ascendant.  After that, Hobart chasing.

If you like defense, make sure to see the Skidmore/RPI game -- two teams who counter well and are solid on defense. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 04, 2016, 10:14:00 AM
Even with Hobart having 10 men for a half I am shocked RPI got 2 goals even with Hobart pushing men forward. RPI has really been anemic offensively this year and even with the win I do not see them in the Top 4.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 04, 2016, 12:39:22 PM
RPI will be top 4.
They are a strange team.
They tend to always win games they must win.

I would not be surprised if any of 8 teams make it to the top 4 though...
At this point:
SLU
Union
Vassar
Clarkson
RPI
RIT
Hobart
Skidmore
All still have a legitimate shot at top 4.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 04, 2016, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 04, 2016, 12:39:22 PM
RPI will be top 4.
They are a strange team.
They tend to always win games they must win.

I would not be surprised if any of 8 teams make it to the top 4 though...
At this point:
SLU
Union
Vassar
Clarkson
RPI
RIT
Hobart
Skidmore
All still have a legitimate shot at top 4.

Agreed.  I'm still not sure of Clarkson or RIT but after SLU I think its pretty much all about match-ups, mistakes and situations. This weekend's slate of games will provide some clarity.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 05, 2016, 10:42:05 AM
Not so sure on SLU based on the past few weeks. They'll be tested in a big way this weekend down on the turf at Skidmore.  The team has never played well there, and any wins they've gotten over the past 6-8 years have been close calls. If SLU starts off their 4 game road trip with a W against the #2 team, I like their chances to take home the regular season title.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 06, 2016, 11:20:02 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 04, 2016, 12:39:22 PM
RPI will be top 4.
They are a strange team.
They tend to always win games they must win.

I would not be surprised if any of 8 teams make it to the top 4 though...
At this point:
SLU
Union
Vassar
Clarkson
RPI
RIT
Hobart
Skidmore
All still have a legitimate shot at top 4.




I realize RPI and Adam Clinton in years past have over-achieved but 2016 RPI IMO is not the same type of team. I have watched them play 3 times this year and frankly they are not very good. Against better teams they have NOTHING going forward and even against lesser competition they cannot score goals. As usual, Adam Clinton sides are very organized defensively and work very hard and do all the little things but this years side is missing what RPI usually has. A creative central midfielder who can spray the ball around, someone resembling a striker that is above average in his finishing ability and very good GK'ing. I just do not see any of those 3 things in this RPI side. I will bet my house that they are NOT A TOP 4 SIDE in LL this year. In fact based on current results I am guessing that the LL Playoffs will resemble last years.

1. SLU
2. Skidmore
3. Hobart
4. Union / Vassar Winner

RIT and Clarkson IMO have harder schedules remaining but they could sneak into the 4th spot. If Skidmore gets a result this wknd against SLU they will have #2 locked up and possibly #1.

We will see....

Saturday Predictions:

Skidmore v SLU-----Skidmore has the athletes to keep up and they are usually capable of playing tenaciously on defense but I have not seen them play this year so I have no idea what they have in net. They have had a roller coaster season so far but in the Adam Beek days Skidmore would play their best against SLU and Williams. They will be up for this game but I say SLU 2-1

Hobart v Clarkson-----I still say Hobart is under achieving this season. It seems like all thru Shawn Griffin's tenure Hobart is under-achieving which is strange to me because when he was at Plymouth St his teams were always OVER-Achieving. They were always tough to play in the NCAA's especially at home and since he left Plymouth St they have been an outright disaster for a program that has some very good history in New England. Anyhow...Hobart 2-0

Vassar v RPI----Personally, I do not rate either of these teams but Vassar is better. Vassar 1-0

Union v RIT-----winner of this gane is in good shape for contention in the Top 4, loser will be in a hole..Tough to predict a LL wknd without 1 draw but what the hell...RIT 1-0

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 08, 2016, 12:22:10 PM
Haven't picked one right yet but even a blind squirrel.  Generally the Liberty League teams are mired in mediocrity this year.  New Paltz over Union and Elmira over Skidmore are cases in point.  I picked Vassar over SLU last weekend and despite the final outcome that was a very, very close contest.  Instead of picking games this week I am picking the winner of the LL regular season--the Vassar Brewers who happened to crush Elmira.  They have demonstrated the most consistent offensive attack and but for Bard, all of their remaining LL games are at home where they have not lost this year.  If RPI beats them today then never mind, but if Mr. Right is right, and RPI's offense is anemic, today should be the start of an undefeated LL string for Vassar til the playoffs. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 08, 2016, 03:52:45 PM
Disgraceful officiating in the SLU-Skidmore game.  Absolutely disgraceful.  PK called for SLU and just as Bunton steps up to take the kick the refs call it back for reasons I have absolutely no idea.  Shameful.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 08, 2016, 04:28:51 PM
Looks like Skidmore's on their way to a win over SLU.  Goalkeeping error from SLU makes it 2-0.  Skidmore is very disciplined in the back.  LL is up for grabs this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 08, 2016, 05:45:49 PM
Was Skidmore down a man the whole 2nd Half? Box score say's same player on Skidmore got 2 yellows?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 08, 2016, 05:48:18 PM
Was there a fight at the end of the Hobart / Clarkson game as a Clarkson kid got a straight red right when the game ended in OT?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 08, 2016, 07:44:35 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 08, 2016, 05:48:18 PM
Was there a fight at the end of the Hobart / Clarkson game as a Clarkson kid got a straight red right when the game ended in OT?

I believe it was a second yellow in game to the Clarkson player protesting the Hobart score, cursing at ref and acting out. Combined with a yellow from first half, out came the red. Clarkson coach apologized to refs (kudos to Clarkson coaching staff and several of the team leaders for getting a silly situation under control).

As an aside, my observation is that the AR missed the offside call in first half that allowed Clarkson to score, then missed the offside in overtime that allowed Hobart to score.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 08, 2016, 07:56:34 PM
Quote from: Part_Bart on October 08, 2016, 07:44:35 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 08, 2016, 05:48:18 PM
Was there a fight at the end of the Hobart / Clarkson game as a Clarkson kid got a straight red right when the game ended in OT?

I believe it was a second yellow in game to the Clarkson player protesting the Hobart score, cursing at ref and acting out. Combined with a yellow from first half, out came the red. Clarkson coach apologized to refs (kudos to Clarkson coaching staff and several of the team leaders for getting a silly situation under control).

As an aside, my observation is that the AR missed the offside call in first half that allowed Clarkson to score, then missed the offside in overtime that allowed Hobart to score.

LOL so he misses to huge offsides calls and pockets $150 plus mileage for the game. Fantastic.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 12, 2016, 02:39:26 PM
Clarkson is likely done.
A bad weekend for SLU and things might be the same for them as well.

The RPI game is a must win, and RPI are always formidable at home (Won 2012 League Semi Final over SLU at home).

This is a very competitive year in the league with Union/Skidmore/Vassar and Hobart all looking determined to make the league tourney.
This weekend will tell us who is in or who's out, or atleast narrow down those still competing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 12, 2016, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 12, 2016, 02:39:26 PM
Clarkson is likely done.
A bad weekend for SLU and things might be the same for them as well.

The RPI game is a must win, and RPI are always formidable at home (Won 2012 League Semi Final over SLU at home).

This is a very competitive year in the league with Union/Skidmore/Vassar and Hobart all looking determined to make the league tourney.
This weekend will tell us who is in or who's out, or atleast narrow down those still competing.

If SLU miss, would it be the first time since 2009?  I was at the SLU-Union game that year, when Goss-Woliner was red-carded in the first 5 minutes of the game, and Union eventually won 1-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 12, 2016, 03:21:56 PM
It would be the first time since 2009.

2009 was the first and only ever time we missed the tourney as well.
Weird season that year.
I recall we started normally 7-1 (2) at one point then the bottom just fell out.

I think Tosh will right the ship, but the team has been dominated by top midfielders since 2010.
Its time the strikers step up and start scoring goals if SLU is planning on making a run this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 13, 2016, 10:35:50 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 12, 2016, 03:21:56 PM
I think Tosh will right the ship, but the team has been dominated by top midfielders since 2010.
Its time the strikers step up and start scoring goals if SLU is planning on making a run this year.

Quite true about needing strikers to step up!  But then again, there aren't too many Brendan Gormans or Sebastiaan Jansens playing D-3 soccer!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 13, 2016, 11:01:59 AM
Big Weekend in the LL with every team playing 2 games except Skidmore who has the weekend off. Skidmore has a LOCK on winning the Title this year and hosting. They will have 4 games left against Bard, Clarkson, RPI and Union. They have all the tiebreakers in their favor especially with SLU. I caught Skidmore against Williams on Tuesday for the 1st time this year and came away impressed. With Okoye, Oyeniyi and Santos they have 3 players that would start for any team in the country IMO. They are extremely organized defensively and have a decent GK in net.  I did not realize Santos was injured to start the year which most likely is the reason for the slow start to the season. Had they beaten Cortland, Plattsburgh and Baruch to start the season they would be 8-1-3 with a Pool C bid likely and really they could be 9-0-3 had they beaten Elmira. I know they are a better team than all of those schools as I have seen Cortland and Plattsburgh play. It's unfortunate that Skidmore never got to taste the NCAA"s in Adam Beek's tenure but this is their chance to qualify this year by winning the LL Title.

SLU should sweep the weekend at Union and RPI which would put some added pressure on Skidmore to get the wins they need to get to host. The Vassar v Hobart game on Saturday could determine 2nd / 3rd place. Clarkson and RIT absolutely need to sweep the weekend if they have any hopes of getting into the Top 4. I think Union needs to beat Clarkson on Saturday or they will not get 4th place. I still say it will finish like this:

1. Skidmore
2. Hobart
3. SLU
4. Vassar
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 13, 2016, 01:16:54 PM
Cannot argue with solid reasoning backed up by facts!!

True that strikers like  Jansen (Union) and Gorman (SLU)only come about once per generation.
The Union v. SLU matchup would have much more fireworks this weekend for sure.
Ofcoarse were Adam Beek still playing Skidmore could well claim the league title now as well.

Perhaps the lack of clinical strikers lately is a league wide not just SLU issue.

I agree Mr. Right it seems like St. Lawrence's 3 year run of being League/Tourney champs might come to an end this season, but this is such a competitive league I think in the long run that might not be a bad thing.

This is a league that deserves at least 2  dance berths per year (As does SUNYAC I think).

This weekend might decide whos in and who is out.

I see Union/Vassar/Skidmore/Hobart all making it in this year... I also see SLU in the mix...
4 spots 5 teams, this is why we love October soccer in D3.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 13, 2016, 10:46:15 PM
I agree with most of the above points.  I think SLU rights the ship this weekend, but I don't think they'll have enough to be LL hosts.  Skidmore and Hobart won the battle of the match ups, and Hobart have had some guys out due to injury.  I still can't put my finger on Union.  Don't feel like I can make an honest assessment on them yet.  Their record looks impressive at first glance but they have an extremely soft OOC schedule.

I will say, I thought SLU was dead in the water as far as winning the league last year.  They rattled off 4 straight shut outs to win the league.  This team always finds a way to make it interesting in the end.  Obviously I want to see them pull off 4 straight regular season titles, but I have to be honest and say I don't mind seeing some parity in the league.  I love our league, and I will never be upset with it getting more national attention.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2016, 11:34:20 AM
I don't want to commit sacrilege but Skidmore is not winning the Liberty League automatic bid or getting a NCAA at large tournament berth.  They lost to ELMIRA, a mediocre team at best who was thoroughly dominated by Vassar.  They were outshot by large margins in the SLU and Vassar games.  They do have the easiest remaining schedule but they will not survive the playoffs.  If SLU wasn't the gang that couldn't shoot straight (see Skidmore and Bard games for example) I would be picking them to win it all.  However, as everyone has observed their offense has been anemic, especially production from their up top players.  Thus I am still sticking with my Vassar pick.  With Hobart and Union at home Vassar will be playing at home in the LL playoffs.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 14, 2016, 02:52:45 PM
Agreeing with deutschfan on Skidmore. Skidmore fields three great players, are very well organized, and play with heart.  Not going to carry them outside of conference playoffs.  Increasingly thinking Vassar/SLU -- and Vassar's more creative attack seems to be the difference. If Hobart or RIT holds Vassar to a tie (or, egads, beats Vassar) this weekend, then I'll shift away from Vassar, but stay with SLU for finals. 

My thinking is that it is unlikely anyone from LL advances to NCAAs other than the AQ. If the AQ is NOT SLU, that means they have (at least) three losses.  IF the AQ is SLU, then other teams that could be in finals have tossed out hairball losses.   Plus, a quick eyeball of Union, Vassar and Skidmore's schedules suggest to me their SOS/RPI are not strong enough to overcome the top three teams from SUNYAC - and Rochester (which is having a very good season). Hobart already has several losses to weak teams so they know it is win out or watch....

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 14, 2016, 02:57:08 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 14, 2016, 11:34:20 AM
I don't want to commit sacrilege but Skidmore is not winning the Liberty League automatic bid or getting a NCAA at large tournament berth.  They lost to ELMIRA, a mediocre team at best who was thoroughly dominated by Vassar.  They were outshot by large margins in the SLU and Vassar games.  They do have the easiest remaining schedule but they will not survive the playoffs.  If SLU wasn't the gang that couldn't shoot straight (see Skidmore and Bard games for example) I would be picking them to win it all.  However, as everyone has observed their offense has been anemic, especially production from their up top players.  Thus I am still sticking with my Vassar pick.  With Hobart and Union at home Vassar will be playing at home in the LL playoffs.


If you read my full post you would have seen that I said IF Skidmore had Santos to start the year they might have beaten Cortland, Plattsburgh and Baruch. I have seen Cortland and Plattsburgh this year and believe Skidmore are a better team. They have a seriously talented spine and are extremely organized. Vassar does not have Skidmore's athleticism. I did SAY that Skidmore is a lock to win the league because of their remaining schedule and previous results which would give them all the tiebreakers. They could finish 2-1-1 or 2-0-2 and still win the league. I think Vassar has a real possibility for the #4 seed but I think they are in for a tough weekend against Hobart on Saturday and if RIT sits in today they might only come away with a draw. We shall see.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 14, 2016, 05:45:25 PM
Vassar up 1-0 over RIT with about 10 minutes left but 2nd Half RIT has been on the move trying to get the tying goal. Frankly, 2nd Half RIT looks the better more aggressive side and possessing the ball all the way up to the final 3rd very well. There biggest issue is THEY CANNOT FINISH. They have had 3-4 excellent chances to score and just cannot get composed and finish.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 14, 2016, 05:51:06 PM
Bard and Hobart headed to OT
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 14, 2016, 06:33:36 PM
Hobart beat Bard, 1-0, in second OT. Nice header.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2016, 06:41:33 PM
Nothing like a regular season game against Union to get SLU back on track again.  Only scored half as many goals as they did last year but SLU will take it. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 15, 2016, 02:50:08 PM
Another awful, awful game from SLU.  Horrific.  Nice goal off a volley from RPI, but SLU is just downright terrible.  Another game of toying with it too much in the back, criminal first touches and no vision going forward.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 15, 2016, 03:52:58 PM
Extreme panic time for SLU.  Terrible loss to RPI.  I have never seen a SLU team have a worse collective first touch than this one.  Unbelievably bad.  Misplayed passes all over the face, costly fouls killing momentum.  Lucky that Hobart and Vassar drew, or else this season outlook would look extremely grim.

Oh wait, I thought that Vassar Hobart game ended in a draw.  My mistake.  Didn't see the OT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 15, 2016, 04:51:18 PM
Hobart beat Vassar on a pk in overtime after going a man up in regulation.  It will be interesting to see what the support will be for a SLU pool C if they don't make the LL playoffs ala RPI last year.  I thought it was a debacle last year and my opinion this year will be no different. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 15, 2016, 05:13:48 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 15, 2016, 04:51:18 PM
Hobart beat Vassar on a pk in overtime after going a man up in regulation.  It will be interesting to see what the support will be for a SLU pool C if they don't make the LL playoffs ala RPI last year.  I thought it was a debacle last year and my opinion this year will be no different.



There will be no Pool C for SLU. They will have to win the LL to get a bid. They will have only 1 ranked win(Cortland St) at the end of the day which will not be enough. I am a believer in the Liberty League and I know how tough the league can be but teams like Hobart and Skidmore did themselves no favors with their out of conference results. It is a definite 1 bid league and I know they deserve 2. SLU got unlucky by playing Brockport and Plattsburgh who had down years as usually those would be regionally ranked teams. This is where your schedule can kill you as SLU should have NEVER dropped Oneonta and UR.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 15, 2016, 05:30:46 PM
I agree.  I'm not sure why we dropped UR.  I'm pretty sure we've actually tried to keep them on the schedule but it wasn't agreed upon on the other end.  Haven't played Oneonta in years, and I'm not sure why.  I'd rather have them on the schedule over Oswego or Geneseo.  I didn't even see the OT between Vassar-Hobart, my mistake saying it ended in a draw.  One of the rare years where SLU will have to rely on other teams to sneak into the top 4. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 15, 2016, 07:46:42 PM
So when the first regional rankings come out this week are there any Liberty League teams ranked?  Last week NSCAA had SLU, Vassar and Union ranked in the top 10 in the East but no guarantee that the committee gives the East that many ranking slots.  Union drops 2 games, SLU and Vassar 1.  Hobart picks up 2 overtime wins but has an abysmal preseason record as Mr. Right notes. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 15, 2016, 08:17:39 PM
Well the East has gained 1 team this year so 8 teams will be regionally ranked. In no particular order the teams that will be regionally ranked IMO



SLU, Rochester, Oneonta, Cortland, Hobart, Vassar, Houghton and Stevens


So SLU would actually have 2 wins over Vassar and Cortland and 1 loss v Hobart.  2-1-0 is actually very respectable for Record V Ranked. If SLU won out and lost in the LL Final they actually would have a decent shot at  Pool C. Hobart and Vassar though would be near the bottom of the rankings so their Pool C hopes would not be as good. Hobart's SOS and OWP I would imagine to be pretty good though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 16, 2016, 05:12:23 AM
Agreeing with Mr. Right on list of eight (and noting that Oneonta, Rochester and Cortland are step up from SLU/Stevens, then Hobart, Houghton, and Vassar).  Stevens keeps losing to top 15 teams, so likely they are fourth and SLU fifth. Hobart's upgraded SOS and OWP is offset by getting very few results from these. Vassar and Houghton have to earn the AQ to go on given their SOS/OWP.

Cortland and Hobart play on 18 October. A loss puts Hobart into AQ-only-trajectory for NCAAs.

Liberty league fans will appreciate the intensity and interesting matchup-results, but the rest of D3 might think of this as mediocrity?

Did not see Hobart coming back to beat Vassar, away and playing second OT game in 24 hours.
Climbing off the Vassar bandwagon (that I was about to get on...).
Staying with RPI as the toughest time to beat in Liberty League.
Pretty sure the 19 October game with Skidmore could go a long time before a score, given how both teams like to defend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 16, 2016, 06:10:40 AM
Another topsy-turvy weekend in the LL!  Mr. Right's predictions are looking right on the money (with the possible exception of the #4 spot).  It's now Skidmore's regular season title to lose.  In the years that I've been  following the LL, it has usually seemed that 13 points is sufficient to get into the tournament (last year, 12 points was enough).  In alphabetical order, here's how the teams shake out on the path to 13 points:

Bard - It was nice to see the Raptors get a result against RIT, as they were unlucky not to have gotten one earlier.  They cannot reach the magic 13 points, but with RPI, Skidmore, and Vassar on the docket, they will have an opportunity to play spoiler down the stretch.

Clarkson - They inflicted a major wound on Union yesterday.  With 7 points and Skidmore (at home) and SLU (away) remaining on the schedule, getting to 13 points is unlikely.  Like Bard, they also have an opportunity to play spoiler.

Hobart - The Statesmen are playing their best soccer at the right time of the season.  If Skidmore falters, Hobart will be there to seize the opportunity.  Wins against Union and RIT would get them to 19 points and the #1 or #2 seed in the LL tournament.

RIT - The Tigers cannot reach 13 points.  With SLU and Hobart remaining on the schedule, a spot in the LL cellar is a likely possibility.

RPI - Like Hobart, the Engineers are coming on at the right time of the season.  With Skidmore and Bard at home, RPI could reach 16 points and the #2 or #3 seed. 

Skidmore - The Thoroughbreds control their own destiny.  If they win out, the regular season title and the #1 seed are theirs.  Doing so won't be a walk in the park, though, facing RPI and Clarkson on the road and Bard and Union at home.  Winning three out of four will get them 17 points and the #1 or #2 seed.

SLU - I fully expect the Saints to take care of business against RIT and Clarkson, reach 15 points, and claim the #3 seed.

Union - After falling at home to Clarkson yesterday, the Dutchmen need to win two of their last three to get to 13 points and have any prayer of making the playoffs.  Facing a gauntlet of Hobart, Vassar, and Skidmore on the road, Union is on life support.

Vassar - The Brewers need to win one of their remaining two games to reach 13 points.  Their opponents--Union and Bard--will be eager to prevent them from doing so.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 16, 2016, 09:07:37 PM
Mr.Right's Projected NCAA East Regional Rankings on Wednesday taking into account SOS, OWP,OOWP, Road results, etc.....


1. Oneonta St                  11-3-1
2. Rochester                     8-1-3
3. Cortland St                  12-2-0
4. SLU                              10-3-0
5. Hobart                           7-4-3
6. Stevens                         8-4-1
7. Vassar                           9-3-2
8. Houghton                      8-2-3

On the Cusp----Buffalo State and Fredonia St
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on October 18, 2016, 08:23:36 AM
Big games coming up this week and weekend for the LL. Does Skidmore hold on and win it? Does Hobart, who has been playing the best soccer thus far, come in and play spoilers? Does RPI rise from the grave and make the league. Does Vassar hold on for dear life and make it? Does SLU get it together and make it? Does Union go on a streak and make it? Does Clarkson make their own run and squeeze in?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: lastguyoffthebench on October 18, 2016, 09:52:56 AM

Welcome, grASSkicker! 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 19, 2016, 11:37:39 AM
Cortland 5-Hobart 0: Too much road trip for Hobart after two overtime nail biters.  Another Liberty League Pool C aspirant gives up the ghost. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 19, 2016, 12:04:22 PM
Would have been tough for Hobart to get a pool C in any event (had too bad of a start to the season).

Hobart is a strange team. They can beat anyone in the league when they want to play, but over the last few seasons have also had some lopsided losses handed to them from non league teams.

I guess maybe when you are fighting for a league title, a Europa League loss is not fatal.

Eyes on the prize I guess.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 19, 2016, 12:36:28 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 19, 2016, 11:37:39 AM
Cortland 5-Hobart 0: Too much road trip for Hobart after two overtime nail biters.  Another Liberty League Pool C aspirant gives up the ghost.

They were only down 1-0 at the half (with 0 shots), but a red card/PK combo put them a man down and another goal behind early in the second half.  The last three goals were scored in the final 12 minutes of play.  It remains to be seen whether the red card will be a factor in Saturday's game against Union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 19, 2016, 12:39:35 PM
Again, Shawn Griffin's Hobart team has under achieved. This is becoming very common year after year and it puzzles me because when he was at Plymouth St his teams always over-achieved. When I saw Cortland play at Oneonta I was disappointed and unimpressed with Cortland. Oneonta absolutely DOMINATED them but maybe it was a one off. I have only seen Cortland once so I will have to catch them one more time in the SUNYAC tournament. That is a BIG win and as long as they do not slip they will be a LOCK for a Pool C. Hobart I have seen a couple times this year and frankly they are better than a 5-0 drubbing. They lack discipline and become uninterested in some games. They will need to win the LL tournament and I do not think they will, just a hunch.


Big game tonight with RPI v Skidmore.....Skidmore controls its own destiny to winning the regular season and hosting rights in the LL. I have been VERY critical of RPI this year and rightly so IMO. Somehow they swept Clarkson and SLU last weekend to basically secure a Top 4 spot with only Bard remaining. This game is always a heated battle and while Skidmore will get frustrated in this game at trying to break RPI down they will eventually get their goal. They have had 8 days rest and RPI is coming off back to backs on the weekend. That will prove the difference late in the game. 1-0 Skidmore
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 19, 2016, 09:36:02 PM
RPI has one shot on goal and wins.  Crazy year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 19, 2016, 09:41:17 PM
RPI had only one shot on goal, but that's all it took for them to dispatch Skidmore 1-0.  RPI is looking strong for the conference tournament, and Skidmore, with games left against Union, Clarkson, and Bard, can still get to 17 points and a first or second place finish in the conference.  Hobart controls its own destiny.  If they win out, they will win the conference and the #1 seed. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on October 20, 2016, 08:47:07 AM
Crazy League. Hobart, RPI, Vassar, and Skidmore control their own destiny. SLU is on the outside looking in. Union and Clarkson need wins and help. RIT and Bard can play spoilers. Final stretch here folks, what are the thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 20, 2016, 10:11:53 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 04, 2016, 12:39:22 PM
RPI will be top 4.
They are a strange team.
They tend to always win games they must win.

I would not be surprised if any of 8 teams make it to the top 4 though...
At this point:
SLU
Union
Vassar
Clarkson
RPI
RIT
Hobart
Skidmore
All still have a legitimate shot at top 4.
I have to say, besides RIT now out, I feel a bit like the Soothsayer that warned Caesar about 3/15/20 BC or there abouts.

RPI, I don't know how they do it, they just win when needed.
Skidmore might be in trouble despite only one league loss. The trouble is wins are much harder to come by this time of year.
Tough seeing Union get in, although people said that about RPI just a week ago.
Vassar is the most interesting team in the league right now.
Would almost seem unfortunate and unfair if they don't make it in, but they might not.

Hobart is almost a lock at this point, but who knows, maybe their loss to Cortland was a sign of form, maybe not.

Clarkson is still holding on to hope. Them getting in would probably be the feel good story of the league.

Then there is SLU.
I might break my keyboard if I think about their predicament now so I will pass.

This weekend will settle things I think.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 20, 2016, 12:21:58 PM
Hard to believe SLU, after that start to the season, is facing potentially missing the LL tourney for the first time since '09.  However, with 6 points from the last 2 games, they've got a shot.

Plenty of clarity will come after this weekend, and everybody will know where they stand heading into the last set of fixtures.  Should be the most drama filled final day in quite a few years!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 20, 2016, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: SandyMac on October 20, 2016, 12:21:58 PM
Hard to believe SLU, after that start to the season, is facing potentially missing the LL tourney for the first time since '09.  However, with 6 points from the last 2 games, they've got a shot.

Plenty of clarity will come after this weekend, and everybody will know where they stand heading into the last set of fixtures.  Should be the most drama filled final day in quite a few years!

But RPI demonstrated last year that missing the league playoffs doesn't have to derail a team's NCAA at-large chances.  In fact, short of wining the LL tournament (which obviously they'd want the chance to do because of AQ) the LL tournament could lower their SOS depending who they would get matched with in addition to suffering another blemish.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 20, 2016, 01:30:48 PM
Still thinking that only LL team that will be dancing is the AQ.

MAYBE if SLU loses in LL final they have a chance (as it would mean they have won out the season and a playoff game before a fourth loss).  Still, it would take Buff. State or Fredonia to fade (as Cortland and Oneonta are likely locks, so that is one Pool C) and Rochester likely a second Pool C.  No other team in LL has a chance for pool C.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 20, 2016, 01:59:02 PM
Not that I desire this, but I think if SLU wins at RIT and ties v. Clarkson they are a lock at a Pool C even if that does not get them into the League tourney.

They would sit at a very very respectable 11-3-1, with wins over 2 of the current top 5 teams in the East (Cortland/Vassar).

I also think that 15 is the magic # to get in the LL Tourney this year.
14 just wont do it. Not this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 20, 2016, 08:04:45 PM
I'm actually looking for 3 bids:  SLU does an RPI; Vassar beats Rochester, and then wins out until losing away to Hobart in a shootout in the final; and Hobart gets the AQ.  You can put the white jacket on me now.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 20, 2016, 09:46:08 PM
Saint of Old -- agreed -- 15 points is a lock.
SLU has to win both remaining games to get 15 points.
Hobart needs two results to lock a spot: two wins makes them first seed with 19 points.
RPI has to beat Bard to make 16 (a result leaves them at 14 points and on the edge).
Vassar needs two wins to make 16 (a result leaves them at 14 but with tie-breaker over RPI).
Skidmore needs two wins and a result from their final three LL games (@Clarkson, v. Bard, v. Union) to achieve 15 points (and they have tie-breaker over SLU).
Union needs to win all three of their final LL contests (@Hobart, @Vassar, @Skidmore) to get 16 points -- a tough row to hoe....
Clarkson would need to beat Skidmore and @SLU away (knocking both of them out) to get 13 points and join Hobart, RPI and Vassar.

Deutschfan -- like the rose-tinted glasses!
But, Vassar and SLU have weaker SOS then Cortland, Oneonta, Buff. State, Rochester and Hobart.
Pretty sure that two of the three SUNYAC teams and Rochester will get Pool C bids before any of the LL teams.
Not sure there will be a fourth Pool C team from the East....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2016, 11:40:23 AM
Vassar v. Rochester
Actually a very big game (albeit non conference for Vassar) could pull an RPI with  a win over a strong opponent, even if they fail to make the league tournament.
Vassar 2 Rochester 1

Skidmore v. Clarkson

Something tells me Clarkson will get something out of this game. Skidmore cannot allow that, if they do then it will spell a very tense final week of the regular season for them
1-1

Union v. Hobart
Hobart books at least a 2nd place finish in the league while closing the postseason door on Union.

2-0 Hobart

SLU v. RIT
RIT plays for pride at home and holds Saints to a tie. Saints still not scoring goals
0-0

RPI v. Bard

Must win game for RPI (believe it or not) Bard  playing its best soccer of the year and looking to climb the league table shocks the Engineers

1-0 Bard.




Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2016, 12:23:47 PM
Big Weekend in the LL.....

SLU must and will defeat RIT as they need to get a Top 4 spot or they will not be going to the NCAA's IMO. Even with 2 ranked wins there  will be others around the country with better resumes. They must get into the LL Final and then if they lose / tie they would get a bid.

I still say Skidmore wins the league. Just a disappointing loss at RPI mid-week allowing only 1 SOG and losing. They must go 3-0-0 against Bard, Clarkson and Union which is very doable.

Hobart v Union is the match of the weekend with the winner in very good shape. If Hobart wins they might win the league. Union must win out.

Vassar v UR is a huge game with Pool C ramifications. If Vassar can win(which I do not think will happen) they will be on their way to a Pool C.

I am calling a Bard upset at RPI....The team that gets RPI in the LL tourney will be a lucky one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2016, 01:29:31 PM
If Bard upsets RPI.
RPI will not make it to the LL Tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 21, 2016, 08:21:04 PM
Interesting subplot in the VC v. UR game.  UR's leading scorer went to the high school right down the street from Vassar and played with one of Vassar's captains.  He may have been recruited by both schools--who knows.  Rochester tied RPI and Vassar should definitely be in this game.  Problem is that last weekend Vassar looked unsettled in both their games.  Mr. Right was right, as usual, that RIT, arguably the weakest team in the league, was controlling the second half of their game with Vassar and was unlucky not to get at least a tie.  If that Vassar shows up, and the Rochester that led Chicago after one half shows up, it will be no contest.  If the Rochester that tied RPI shows up Vassar should make it a contest.  Last time Vassar played a UAA team was in the NCAA second round in 2012 where they lost a heartbreaker to host Brandeis in the last 30 seconds of regulation.  I'm sure general UAA revenge will be on their mind even though all of the players from that team have graduated.  In general LL teams should look to schedule UAA teams, at least the ones geographically close like UR, NYU and Brandeis.  The UAA definitely has the respect of the Committee.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 12:35:54 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 21, 2016, 08:21:04 PM
Interesting subplot in the VC v. UR game.  UR's leading scorer went to the high school right down the street from Vassar and played with one of Vassar's captains.  He may have been recruited by both schools--who knows.  Rochester tied RPI and Vassar should definitely be in this game.  Problem is that last weekend Vassar looked unsettled in both their games.  Mr. Right was right, as usual, that RIT, arguably the weakest team in the league, was controlling the second half of their game with Vassar and was unlucky not to get at least a tie.  If that Vassar shows up, and the Rochester that led Chicago after one half shows up, it will be no contest.  If the Rochester that tied RPI shows up Vassar should make it a contest.  Last time Vassar played a UAA team was in the NCAA second round in 2012 where they lost a heartbreaker to host Brandeis in the last 30 seconds of regulation.  I'm sure general UAA revenge will be on their mind even though all of the players from that team have graduated.  In general LL teams should look to schedule UAA teams, at least the ones geographically close like UR, NYU and Brandeis.  The UAA definitely has the respect of the Committee.   


This I agree with. LL teams schedule Williams because of geography. RPI and Skidmore are on the schdule and in the past Williams has played Union and Hamilton(when in the LL)...UR should be playing and I believe they do play more than half of the LL...Amherst and Union refuse too play any team that is somewhat competitive...SLU and Middlebury would be a GREAT game that could be played. Midd could also play Skidmore, RPI and Union but I do not think Midd would play those teams. Maybe when Saward retires the new coach will play a tougher schedule.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 03:00:55 PM
Skidmore up 2-0 over Clarkson at the half. If this holds an they beat Union and Bard which is likely I think they can get the #1 seed. The Hobart and Union game is BIG.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 03:22:01 PM
RIT v SLU 1-1 15 minutes in...Did not see the goals but RIT video is very good. SLU must get this game
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 03:25:02 PM
Vassar up 1-0 with 30 minutes left in the game. If Vassar can hold on for the win it would be HUGE. Vassar would be on the bubble and most likely get a Pool C so this is a big game for them. LL might be seeing 2 NCAA tournament teams this year if the result holds which the LL deserves.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 22, 2016, 03:30:21 PM
SLU regains the lead on a nice ship shot from Augustine.  Controlling the game, but RIT did well on the equalizer.  Really good counterattack and some slick passing. 

Man, if Bard could do us a solid later in the day that would be nice  ;D.  SLU put themselves in this position though.  I vastly underestimated the impact of losing Copeland and Hunt.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 22, 2016, 03:32:19 PM
2-0 Vassar last I checked, and agreed, massive for Vassar if he can see it through.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 03:52:44 PM
3-0 Vassar...Unreal....5 Total Shots for Vassar and 3 goals...Since no one is goin to pay $7.50 to watch UR of play we have to assume UR outshot Vassar and maybe outplayed them nut Vassar gets it done with a HUGE win...NIve win for Vassar
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 22, 2016, 03:54:19 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 03:52:44 PM
3-0 Vassar...Unreal....5 Total Shots for Vassar and 3 goals...Since no one is goin to pay $7.50 to watch UR of play we have to assume UR outshot Vassar and maybe outplayed them nut Vassar gets it done with a HUGE win...NIve win for Vassar

I still don't understand how a college with a $1 billion + endowment is still charging people to watch online streams.  SLU provides free HQ streams for ALL sports, even our D1 hockey teams which you could actually make a case for charging a fee to watch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 22, 2016, 04:36:04 PM
As long as Vassar makes the LL playoffs they should be in the mix for a pool C.  Great coaching job by the staff--graduate 10 and have a good chance of making it back to the NCAAs.  Also it shows  the value of a steady diet of home cooking.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 22, 2016, 06:21:09 PM
So looks like RPI is going to win comfortably against Bard.  For SLU to get into the LL playoffs they're going to need Union/Bard to at least draw with Skidmore or Vassar, and that's all dependent upon beating Clarkson next weekend.  I'm looking at RPI's schedule last year, and it appears their win against Oneonta is what got them a Pool C bid, because outside of that game their OOC schedule wasn't that remarkable.   I wonder what it will mean for SLU if they don't get into the LL playoff.  They beat Vassar and Cortland, who have been on a tear the last few weeks.  If going by last year's results I think SLU might have a slight chance at pool C.  Am I being delusional or does anyone else agree?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 22, 2016, 06:48:33 PM
SLU is a lock for the LL playoffs and I think Vassar's win over Rochester assures the LL of an automatic and a pool c.  If Vassar stumbles in one of its last two games, and SLU doesn't win the tournament, then SLU will get the Pool C.  If SLU wins the tournament, and Vassar fails to get into the playoffs Vassar may actually pull off an RPI as Skidmore, Hobart, and RPI simply have too many blemishes.  Interesting scenario is if Vassar gets in, and SLU gets in, and neither win.  SLU has head to head but Vassar's Rochester win is compelling. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 06:59:07 PM
SLU is not a lock for a LL berth. I think Skidmore knows what is on the line and will dispatch of Bard and Union...Maybe Maybe Union gets a draw with Skidmore but I wouldn't say it is a LOCK. I actually think Vassar could draw with Union because sometimes after teams beat a nationally ranked team they can get very complacent in their next game. We will see. I do think SLU has a shot at a Pool C anyway but they would need some help from other teams in other regions either not depending on a Pool C if they lose in their league tournament and teams like Oneonta or UR start losing. If UR starts dropping games they will drop in the rankings. However, SLU would want Vassar and Cortland to keep winning so they do not drop out of the East Rankings otherwise they would lose their ranked wins.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on October 22, 2016, 08:27:55 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 22, 2016, 03:54:19 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 03:52:44 PM
3-0 Vassar...Unreal....5 Total Shots for Vassar and 3 goals...Since no one is goin to pay $7.50 to watch UR of play we have to assume UR outshot Vassar and maybe outplayed them nut Vassar gets it done with a HUGE win...NIve win for Vassar

I still don't understand how a college with a $1 billion + endowment is still charging people to watch online streams.  SLU provides free HQ streams for ALL sports, even our D1 hockey teams which you could actually make a case for charging a fee to watch.

Thaaaaaaaaank you!

What a win for Vassar, though.  I saw that fixture on the calendar and was shocked to see the final score line, as I would have pictured Rochester pulling out a gritty win on the road.

After starting 7-0-1 Rochester is 1-2-2 in its last five. That is what happens when you frontload your schedule with cupcakes and leave the tough games for the second half of the season.  Even so, I think Rochester is still in a very good position for a Pool C,  and it certainly is admirable that they have won all the games that they're supposed to win, but I do think that they are perhaps being found out as not being as potent as people thought based on their red–hot start.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 08:35:18 PM
If UR finishes the season with losses to Brandeis and Emory and say a draw with NYU or even a win v NYU they are a bubble team IMO. The RvR is not going to be very good. The win v Buff State will not matter now because they will drop off the East rankings. They drew Wash U and lost to Chicago and Vassar. If they lose to Emory and Brandeis(which will sneak into the New England rankings next week IMO) that will be a 0-4-1 RvR. Their only wins would be against Hobart and CMU which I think might drop off the East rankings especially if they lose to Union tonight. Either way 1-4-1 RvR will not get it done no matter what their SOS is.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 22, 2016, 08:45:17 PM
Wait....which endowment are we talking about...Vassar's or UR's?  I know UR charges for games but this was at Vassar.  Vassar also charges $7.50???

Agree that UR MUST get a win over Brandeis or Emory, and I would guess that they will pull one out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on October 22, 2016, 08:58:33 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on October 22, 2016, 08:45:17 PM
Wait....which endowment are we talking about...Vassar's or UR's?  I know UR charges for games but this was at Vassar.  Vassar also charges $7.50???

Agree that UR MUST get a win over Brandeis or Emory, and I would guess that they will pull one out.

I don't know if Vassar does or not, but I have complained before about Rochester's decision to charge for games.

I agree that they will win one or both of those games, as Rochester is really good at getting big wins when they need to. That said, last year I thought Rochester would pull out wins in its last three to fall backwards into a Pool C bid, but alas they did not, going 6-5-5 overall and 1-3-3 in conference.  Perhaps they had taken for granted that they would win those big games, as I remember them two years ago coming back from being 1-0 down in the last 10 minutes to beat Carnegie on the road in a must-win game 2-1 and get an NCAA bid, but if there was any complacency on that front it will certainly have been eliminated by failing to make NCAAs last year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 22, 2016, 09:02:58 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on October 22, 2016, 08:45:17 PM
Wait....which endowment are we talking about...Vassar's or UR's?  I know UR charges for games but this was at Vassar.  Vassar also charges $7.50???

I haven't had to pay for any LL games this year (including games at Vassar).  I missed all of today's games online, though, so I don't know if Vassar charged today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on October 23, 2016, 01:44:17 PM
RPI and Hobart have punched their tickets into the playoffs. Who joins them? Skidmore needs the AQ, while SLU and Vassar are in that Pool C discussion. Who needs the AQ more, Vassar or SLU? What other 2 teams are going to join the LL Playoffs?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 23, 2016, 02:51:27 PM
I think it's kind of a tossup between SLU and Vassar needing the AQ.  SLU beat Vassar, and also has what's now proven to be a critical win against Cortland.  Vassar just knocked of Rochester, which holds quite a bit of weight.   SLU only has 1 game remaining, while Vassar and Skidmore have 2.  To qualify all SLU needs to do is beat clarkson and have Skidmore or Vassar draw with Bard/Union.  I think there's a decent chance Bard/Union gets a result against one of those teams, but this year all bets are off.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 23, 2016, 04:10:59 PM
That head to head win for SLU over Vassar might prove to be the difference. Vassar better make the LL Playoffs because they will not get a Pool C if they do not qualify IMO. RPI last year was a GIFT that will not happen again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 24, 2016, 11:36:12 AM
So it seems we have come to the point when 15 points may not get an invite to the LL Tourney.

If SLU wins v. Clarkson and finishes with a 12-3 (5-3) record they are still in danger of missing out on post season play if Vassar and Skidmore take care of business.

I think (taking subjectivity out of the analysis) this says a lot about the strength and competitiveness of the Liberty league.

Unfortunately, it  may also lead to the league getting only one bid.

Skidmore
SLU
Vassar

One of these teams will stop playing after this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 24, 2016, 01:24:39 PM
Fear not, Saint!  I am pretty confident that stlawus's hypothesis that Bard or Union will get a result will be supported and render 15 points sufficient to get to the LL tournament.  Despite the apparent parity in the league, the relative lack of draws over the course of the season has inflated the number of points required to make the tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 24, 2016, 02:05:00 PM
Pretty sure the Union v. Skidmore game will be quite the event.
Skidmore has to go forward as they need all the points, Union counters exceptionally well, and they are both aware of the implications.
I'm thinking it will be the tie that all SLU faithful seek.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 24, 2016, 11:39:35 PM
Like I said before I think Skidmore is a much better side than Union as I have seen both about 3 times this year. They will beat Union and Bard at home. The problem is you mention that Skidmore has to go forward which is true BUT you forget to mention that Union MUST go forward as well if they are to have any chance at the #4 seed. This will open them up immensely which Skidmore has the talent to take advantage of. The problem for SLU fans is that then they will be rooting for a Union / Vassar draw or Vassar loss against a Union team that WILL HAVE NOTHING to play for. That would scare me more
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 25, 2016, 12:01:35 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 24, 2016, 11:39:35 PM
Like I said before I think Skidmore is a much better side than Union as I have seen both about 3 times this year. They will beat Union and Bard at home. The problem is you mention that Skidmore has to go forward which is true BUT you forget to mention that Union MUST go forward as well if they are to have any chance at the #4 seed. This will open them up immensely which Skidmore has the talent to take advantage of. The problem for SLU fans is that then they will be rooting for a Union / Vassar draw or Vassar loss against a Union team that WILL HAVE NOTHING to play for. That would scare me more

Because Union v Skidmore (Saturday) comes after Union v Vassar (Wednesday), it is possible that Union will have nothing to play for when they meet Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 25, 2016, 03:45:40 PM
Wading into deeper water by acknowledging the points that Mr. Right makes while re-iterating that Union will sit back and dare Skidmore to attack.  Skidmore may be the better team, and they may have more to play for by Saturday, but that is more reason for sitting back and countering. Skidmore is slow (and they rely on the impressive #10: Oyeniyi to shore up their back line) and Union is quick on wings.  Could easily be Union's game....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PFGF on October 25, 2016, 09:42:35 PM
Union can't score - 1 goal in last 3 LL games. Vassar has 6 goals in last 3 games and 9 goals in last 4 games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 26, 2016, 11:18:00 AM
Just want to point out that SLU beating Clarkson, while likely, isn't a foregone conclusion. The past few years this has been an absolute battle, and this year won't be any different. I expect the Saints to get 3 points at home and give themselves at chance, but Clarkson would love nothing more than to knock their North Country rivals out of the playoffs for the first time since 2009.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on October 26, 2016, 12:09:10 PM
If Slu has any chance of getting in, the result must happen in today's match up between Vassar and Union. Skidmore will play Union this weekend, and Skidmore needs to win to get in. If union lose today, they will lose some grit in that final game vs. Skidmore. Vassar needs to win out to get in. If they win today, they have to beat Bard at Bard this weekend, which in no easy contest. But if someone told the Vassar team in the beginning of the season that they would need to beat bard away to get into post season, they would love those odds. Going to be a lot of people watching the Vassar Union game today!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2016, 06:10:07 PM
Vassar wins and Union has two red cards--Union players probably didn't appreciate the late penalty that decided the game.  Playing Bard at Bard is no easy task and last year Vassar denied them a winning record and a potential ECAC bid so there will be revenge in play.  New regional rankings have Vassar dropping a few notches as a reward for beating the then number 1 seed.  How does that work?  Last year RPI moved up after losing a league game to Vassar that helped knock them out of the LL playoffs and that move helped them get to the NCAAs.  I don't get it but maybe Mr. Right or some of the other intuitive posters on this board can explain before I withdraw into a world of conspiracy theories.  Las Vegas odds probably have SLU not making the tournament.  Are they done?  Does the ghost of RPI resurface?  So many questions, so much time.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 26, 2016, 07:33:45 PM
SLU on outside of LL playoffs -- nervy times in Canton.  They need a win v. Clarkson and Bard finding a result v. Vassar or Union (with the flat metal taste of today's six-yellow-card/two-red-card-and-a-PK loss) beating Skidmore.  I'm losing my twice-repeated enthusiasm for a draw between these two....

Playoff pairings completely dependent on final games.

Based on SOS, SLU not going to get a Pool C bid this year. Vassar MIGHT get a Pool C bid if they make LL final. Their SOS is low compared to Oneonta St. and Rochester -- who seem like locks to get Pool C bids. Hobart MIGHT also get a Pool C bid if they make LL final as their SOS is strongest in LL.  Still, if they lose in finals of LL they will be a six-loss team.... Mr. Right might be enticed to weigh in, but it may be the only LL team in NCAAs this year is AQ.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 26, 2016, 07:35:16 PM
Well last year RPI made the tournament off a win against Oneonta, who I believe were #1 in the regional rankings.  Right now Cortland is #1, and SLU beat them earlier in the year.  Will it be enough if they don't make the LL playoff?  The realist in me would think not, but I would have to believe there is a significant chance.  Mr. Right knows a lot more about this, hopefully he offers his 2 cents.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 26, 2016, 11:56:28 PM
RPI IMO made the tournament last year because of the Oneonta win and Adam Clinton's clout on the committee. Since Duroucher is the chair of the East Committee SLU will a shot especially being ranked #4. I would say their fans MUST ROOT for no upsets these conference tournaments around the country. With 19 Pool C's SLU will be on the bubble. Your best example you would want Vassar to win the LL tournament so they cannot jump SLU in the Final Regional Rankings. I would also be rooting for UR to lose their final games this weekend to drop them below SLU in the rankings. Maybe even have Oneonta getingt upset in their conference tournament and make sure Cortland wins it and also make sure New Paltz and Fredonia get eliminated quickly. Do not even ask me how New Paltz with 10 blemishes are even ranked. I do not remember the last time a team with 10 blemishes was even ranked and they do not even play a very difficult schedule.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 27, 2016, 12:52:25 AM
Yeah, New Paltz is unique, at least against the previous 5 years.

In the previous five years, the most blemishes for a team in the Week 2 Regional Rankings was 8:
2011: Roger Williams 9-3-5
2012: RPI 9-4-4, Puget Sound 8-3-5
2013: Hardin-Simmons 6-3-5
2014: Eastern Connecticut 9-5-3, Brockport State 9-2-6, Catholic 8-5-3, Centre 7-3-5
2015: -- 

In the previous five years, the most blemishes for a team in the Week 3 Regional Rankings was 9, happening twice:
2012: RPI 9-5-4
2014: Case Western Reserve 8-5-4

Eight losses in the Week 3 Regional Rankings isn't so unusual:
2011: Roger Williams 11-3-5, RIT 9-6-2, Dickinson 9-4-4
2012: RPI 9-5-4
2013: Hardin-Simmons 8-3-5
2014: Wesleyan 8-5-3, Brockport State 10-2-6, Rochester 8-5-3, Centre 8-5-3, Case Western Reserve 8-5-4, DePauw 10-7-1, Ohio Northern 11-7-1, Carleton 9-6-2
2015: Rutgers-Camden 12-7-1, Rutgers-Newark 13-7-1, Christopher Newport 11-2-6, Luther 11-5-3

However, being ranked and being selected for an at-large berth to the tournament are two different things. In the last five years, the most blemishes for a team selected for an at-large berth is 9: 2014 Brockport 10-3-6.  Next, 8 blemishes: 2012 Emory 10-6-2.  7 blemishes is fairly common for at-large selections.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 27, 2016, 01:18:23 AM
I agree with the analysis but to be regionally ranked in week 2 of the rankings with already having 10 blemishes is unheard of which you just showed. However, we talking about a team that is not ranked #8(last) in the East. They are actually #5 right behind SLU. If they go on the road on Saturday and win the #4 v #5 game at Buffalo State and then draw against Cortland or Oneonta and lose in PK's I would GUESS they would get a Pool C. If they do not then we can figure the East is only getting 2 maybe 3 At-Large selections. This will be very interesting to see this all play out especially if they win at Buff State. If they lose then it will not matter anyhow
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 27, 2016, 08:23:30 AM
And my point wasn't to minimize the uniqueness of 10-blemish New Paltz being ranked, but to illustrate it.  But you are right to point out that New Paltz isn't just ranked, but ranked 5th of 8 teams.   The highest any of the 8-blemish teams ranked in Week 2 in previous years was 2014 Brockport State (9-2-6) at 5th out of 7 in the East.  You also had 2012 RPI (9-4-4) at 7th of 9 in the East.  But otherwise these 8-blemish teams were in the final two spots in their region.

Obviously, the fact that over 2/3's of the blemishes are ties, not loses also helps a lot.  Flip that around to 8-7-3 and they are certainly not ranked at 5th.  But the thing that stands out for me is New Paltz's 3-1-1 record versus ranked teams.  In the cases of the 8-blemish teams I list in my previous post, they always had losing RvR with 0 or just 1 wins over ranked opponents.  And as we know, the committee really likes RvR, especially the wins, and New Paltz has that for now.  Their win over Buffalo St., comes off their RvR next week, so their RvR will be a little less impressive at 2-1-1, but that's still much better than we typically see from teams carrying so many blemishes. 

So, in agreement with Mr. Right, this is a very unique thing we are seeing with New Paltz.  It is yet to be seen if they can actually do enough in the SUNYAC tournament to actually get an at-large berth.  Not winning the AQ would mean at least one more blemish (a win or a tie), so 11 blemishes.  Now that would really be something and would certainly make them the most blemished team to get in via an at-large berth.  If Fredonia loses their quarterfinal match, they might drop from the rankings which would further drop New Paltz's RvR to 1-1-1 for the 4th/Final Rankings and at-large selections**.  And the only way Buffalo State maybe gets back in the rankings is by eliminating New Platz in the quarterfinals, which would kill their chances right there.

** - Note, starting next year with the change in the definition of Results versus Ranked to include teams ranked in the previous two rankings, New Paltz's win over Fredonia would already be locked in as part of their RvR, but not this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 27, 2016, 12:18:02 PM
I just want to say that with regards to New Paltz, these boys have spent the last few seasons BUILDING A PROGRAM.
This is still my favorite thing about college soccer.
Other than us have beens rooting on the current crop of ballerz representing the teams we love, watching a program get built is the real joy.
Potsdam Bears have been doing this as well (despite not making it to post season this year).
New Paltz had a very good 2015 and they beat good teams consistently.
That is the measure of a good team, and I think that now they have shocked the SUNYAC their gaze is now turned on shocking the region.

As for SLU and their playoff hopes, I think it is worth noting that if St. Lawrence manages to beat Clarkson on Saturday then:
They will only have sustained 3 blemishes all year (All to playoff teams)
They have beaten arguably the best team in SUNYAC and the Liberty League (Cortland/Vassar).
They are still the 4th ranked team in the region as of yesterday and it is unlikely that any team below them will overtake them.
Also possible the teams above them might drop below them.
Teams above them also have a shot at automatically qualifying.

Don't get me wrong, I would much rather get to the Tourney and win, but I think there remains  atleast a bit of hope if not.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2016, 03:41:27 PM
SLU down 1-0 to Clarkson with about 15 minutes to go...They must get this game somehow as it looks like they are dominating stats but just not finishing...They lose this game and their bubble most likely will be burst
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2016, 03:48:45 PM
Wow...SLU really is having issues finishing...I have tuned in for only 5 minutes but have already seen 2 GOLDEN chances for SLU to score and one of them the striker skied it a mile high...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 29, 2016, 03:50:43 PM
That's pretty much the story of the season.  Team's inability to score is going to sink their season.  This was suppose to be an offensive team as well.  Very disappointing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 29, 2016, 03:58:10 PM
Best team won today.
Clarkson played with wayyy more heart and desire.

Top scorer for the season 5 goals.
Nothing more need be said.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 29, 2016, 03:58:21 PM
And that does it for SLU's season.  Wasted opportunity after wasted opportunity.  An own goal and terrible finishing to end the season.  Did not expect SLU to light the world on fire this season but definitely expected better than this.  Very disappointing.  Oh well, rest of the league is quite strong and should be entertaining to watch.  Hoping that the LL represents well in the NT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2016, 05:58:25 PM
Jeez Skidmore blows a 2-1 lead over Union with 6 minutes left and loses. SLU would have qualified...That stings even more...The LL tournament should be very fun to watch lets just hope Hobart's stream has improved. Vassar's SD stream is like watching dots but its doable...BIG revenge game between Hobart and Skidmore. I think Vassar is on the bubble so if Hobart or Skidmore win the LL we will see 2 LL teams in the NCAA's. If SLU has any chance they must root for another UR loss tomorrow and a Fredonia loss to Oneonta in the SUNYAC Semi's. New Paltz is finished but I do believe Vassar will pass SLU in the rankings Wednsday so it would be helpful for Vassar to win the LL which I do not think will happen. I think winner of Hobart / Skidmore gets it done.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 29, 2016, 06:32:38 PM
Who would have thunk?  Union plays spoiler at Skidmore after a season ending meltdown on Wednesday providing an opportunity for SLU, and a home game for Vassar in the LL playoffs.  How a team like Skidmore which has great defense making up for a one man offense gives up two goals in the last 6 minutes after Skidmore goes up by one is beyond me.  SLU loses at home with 24 shots and putting in the only goal for Clarkson.  Given last year's talented freshman class, and the return of Brandell from injury, SLU should have been another dominant year.  Instead Dede disappears scoring 1 point in League, and Brandell's midfield production is relegated to center back.   SLU will not get a pool c losing at home in its final game to a bottom tier LL team.  At least RPI ended on a winning note last year before the invite they never should have gotten.  Vassar has the only opportunity for a pool C and they must get to the LL final to get it.  If Vassar wins out they likely will be the only LL representative as it means Hobart will have been beaten at home.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 30, 2016, 03:39:10 PM
Congrats to Union and Clarkson for unexpected results. 
Heartbreaking end for the SLU seniors.

looking forward, Hobart has had trouble getting results from games with Skidmore and RPI, and Vassar certainly wants to avenge the regular season loss.

If it is Hobart over Vassar in finals them maybe a Pool-C bid goes to Vassar if Oneonta wins SUNYAC over Cortland. However, if either Skidmore or RPI are in LL finals, the league is only going to see the AQ make NCAAs.

Pretty sure the Hobart/Skidmore game will go to OT (nine of Hobart's 17 regular season games went to OT, including five of six LL wins), maybe PKs (so who knows). Thinking that RPI ekes out a win at Vassar this time (they lost 3:2 in regular season).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 02, 2016, 04:06:15 PM
Vassar having no issues dispatching RPI. Impressive performance from the Brewers.

Hobart is by far the better team right now, but Skidmore did enough to equalize.  Defending for their lives hoping to nick one from the counter or hold out for PKs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 02, 2016, 05:13:59 PM
Skidmore is through on PKs
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 02, 2016, 05:19:30 PM
This is Vassar's tournament to lose and playing Saturday at home they won't.  Have to seriously consider a freshman for LL POY.  Hat trick in the semis is very compelling and even if the evaluations are based on the regular season still difficult to forget this performance.  If Vassar wins, Skidmore will not get a bid. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 02, 2016, 05:50:18 PM
Do you think Vassar gets a bid if Skidmore wins?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 02, 2016, 06:26:23 PM
I think that win today gives them a very good chance at Pool C if they lose against Skidmore.  #2 in regional rankings as it stands. 

If they win saturday I wonder what this does for SLU's Pool C's chances.  I don't think they should get a bid, but they have wins against the #1 and #2 teams in the east region. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 02, 2016, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 02, 2016, 06:26:23 PM
I think that win today gives them a very good chance at Pool C if they lose against Skidmore.  #2 in regional rankings as it stands. 

If they win saturday I wonder what this does for SLU's Pool C's chances.  I don't think they should get a bid, but they have wins against the #1 and #2 teams in the east region.


How do you get Vassar to #2 in the regional rankings?  They're sitting today at #7.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 02, 2016, 07:27:31 PM
I'm looking at the East region rankings and they're sitting at #2 below Cortland and above Oneonta.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 02, 2016, 07:31:47 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 02, 2016, 07:27:31 PM
I'm looking at the East region rankings and they're sitting at #2 below Cortland and above Oneonta.

You must be looking at the one that doesn't count.  Vassar is at #7 in the NCAA rankings (as opposed to NSCAA).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 02, 2016, 07:32:26 PM
Oh my mistake then, I've been lied to! 

Interesting to see SLU at #4.  Team's not really deserving in IMO, then again me thinking that NSCAA were the actual rankings proves why I wouldn't know ha.   Lots of parity this year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Christan Shirk on November 02, 2016, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 02, 2016, 07:31:47 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 02, 2016, 07:27:31 PM
I'm looking at the East region rankings and they're sitting at #2 below Cortland and above Oneonta.

You must be looking at the one that doesn't count.  Vassar is at #7 in the NCAA rankings (as opposed to NSCAA).

stlawus, might I suggest one of these:

October 15, 2016
Coming Wednesday: the rankings that matter (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2016/the-rankings-that-matter)
By Christan Shirk


2016 NCAA Regional Rankings (http://www.d3soccer.com/rankings/2016/about)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 02, 2016, 11:47:58 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 02, 2016, 05:19:30 PM
This is Vassar's tournament to lose and playing Saturday at home they won't.  Have to seriously consider a freshman for LL POY.  Hat trick in the semis is very compelling and even if the evaluations are based on the regular season still difficult to forget this performance.  If Vassar wins, Skidmore will not get a bid.

You are very confident on this Vassar team. I think they are overrated and under ranked if that makes any sense....Skidmore wins the AQ and I will be happy to take odds on that. They can SLAM the door shut defensively if they play to their potential. Santos scores the game winner in the 78th minute and Skidmore wins 1-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2016, 01:07:53 AM
Quote from: Christan Shirk on November 02, 2016, 11:38:49 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 02, 2016, 07:31:47 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 02, 2016, 07:27:31 PM
I'm looking at the East region rankings and they're sitting at #2 below Cortland and above Oneonta.

You must be looking at the one that doesn't count.  Vassar is at #7 in the NCAA rankings (as opposed to NSCAA).

stlawus, might I suggest one of these:

October 15, 2016
Coming Wednesday: the rankings that matter (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2016/the-rankings-that-matter)
By Christan Shirk


2016 NCAA Regional Rankings (http://www.d3soccer.com/rankings/2016/about)

Thanks for the literature!  This whole time I thought NSCAA were the end all be all...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 03, 2016, 11:11:59 AM
SLU will be watching this one intently. A win for Vassar is basically their only hope, and even then it's a long shot.  But then again, you just never know with the selection committee.

If SLU gets in, I think they could really be a dark horse.  Don't forget that at one point, this team was 9-0 and seemed to be winning in every way possible. If they're granted a chance, don't count them out.

Hoping Vassar pulls this one out. Great program and deserving to win one at home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 03, 2016, 12:01:35 PM
Liberty League Takeaways So far...

Vassar will be good for a long time to come.
Everything the program has done for the last 5 years prepared them for powerhouse status.
Top scorer is a freshman.
Consistently beat good teams
Consistently compete in the post-season.
The LL and the region should look out for this team.

Hobart are just the most unlucky team there is...
They should have danced last year but didn't, should have danced this year but wont.

Union is a tricky one. They have to play a stronger early schedule to get ready for the league.
They should be a post season team and with hard work and beter scheduling I think they should be.

Skidmore has proved they are an elite team in the league
back to back Finals appearances, but sadly hasn't danced which is very necessary to get respect.

RPI is a class act, they are always a playoff team.

Clarkson seems poised to make a move, but it will take a very impressive freshman class or two more to do so.

I expected more out of Bard this year, but still an improving team.

RIT was a bit unlucky this season, but I just don't see them getting into top half of table for another few years.

Still trying to analyze SLU.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 03, 2016, 10:15:05 PM
Quote from: SandyMac on November 03, 2016, 11:11:59 AM
SLU will be watching this one intently. A win for Vassar is basically their only hope, and even then it's a long shot.  But then again, you just never know with the selection committee.

Given what Mr. Right said about other teams in the region not being able to jump SLU in the rankings and Coach Durocher being involved with the selection of Pool C teams, it seems the odds of the Saints making it into the tournament are pretty good regardless of who wins on Saturday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 03, 2016, 10:39:25 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 02, 2016, 05:19:30 PM
Have to seriously consider a freshman for LL POY.  Hat trick in the semis is very compelling and even if the evaluations are based on the regular season still difficult to forget this performance.

I had intended to get my nominees in for postseason honors prior to the semifinals, but life got in the way.  Anyhow, here are my choices:

Player of the Year - There doesn't seem to be a clear cut favorite in this category, and a number of players had great seasons and proved invaluable to their teams' success.  Nevertheless, I'm going to go a bit against the grain here and advocate for Devon Baughen (RPI). He didn't have much help on the offensive end and much of the team's success in conference play can be directly attributable to his performance on the pitch.  He's not a flashy player, but he gets the job done.

Defensive Player of the Year - As with the Player of the Year race, there were many players who had outstanding seasons and helped keep the ball out of the goal for their squad.  I can think of no more dominant player on the defensive end than Adebare Oyeniyi (Skidmore).  He's a huge reason why the Thoroughbreds are playing in the LL final.

Rookie of the Year - Unlike the previous two categories, there seems to be one player who stands out above the rest.  Following ably in the footsteps of his brother Zander and charting his own path in the attacking third, Mattie Mrlik (Vassar) richly deserves Rookie of the Year honors.

Coaching Staff of the Year - As Saint alluded to, a lot of LL coaches are building strong programs.  I think that there are 4-5 coaching staffs deserving this award, but if pressed to name just one, I would choose the Hobart coaching staff.  Coach Griffin and his colleagues battled back from an 0-3-1 record in a challenging early season schedule  to claim the regular season title. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 03, 2016, 10:51:55 PM
Only thing I might disagree with there is COY. My vote would go to Clarkson. But as you said, several viable candidates this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 03, 2016, 11:11:50 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on November 03, 2016, 10:51:55 PM
Only thing I might disagree with there is COY. My vote would go to Clarkson. But as you said, several viable candidates this year.

I agree that Coach Taylor and his staff did a great job with the team, keeping them in contention for the playoffs until the very end and vanquishing their conference rival.  They won the award two years ago for turning the program around and will, in my opinion, need to reach the playoffs to earn this award again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2016, 11:17:22 PM
Can't really disagree with your choices Ommadawn.  All much deserving of the awards. 

Being a SLU alum and knowing Durocher, I would like to think he'd ignore bias as chair of the East Region.  He loves SLU as much as anyone, so I'm not going to say he won't  ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 03, 2016, 11:30:21 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 03, 2016, 11:17:22 PM
Can't really disagree with your choices Ommadawn.  All much deserving of the awards. 

Being a SLU alum and knowing Durocher, I would like to think he'd ignore bias as chair of the East Region.  He loves SLU as much as anyone, so I'm not going to say he won't  ;D

I didn't intend to convey that he would be biased.  It would be more a case of his knowing how good the team really is and how well they performed out of conference.  I think that SLU's case this year is MUCH stronger than RPI's last year, and RPI acquitted themselves admirably when given the chance in the tournament.  I could see SLU getting to the Sweet 16 if they finish a few of the many opportunities they create...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2016, 01:15:49 AM
Personally, I don't really think they should make the tournament. That loss to Clarkson at home was pretty brutal.  It's not like SEC football teams where losses don't count. 

However, looking back at RPI last year, I would agree with you in saying SLU is more deserving to get in this year.  RPI made the tournament off of a single win which came against Oneonta.  SLU knocked off Cortland who are #1 in the regional rankings, and Vassar who should move up in the ER and are competing for the LL title.  If Rochester didn't stumble has hard as they have recently, I would have put them ahead, but if SLU doesn't bounce down further in the ER I think Pool C is a decent shot. 

I'm not sure if I can agree by saying they're poised to potentially make the sweet 16.  They are an extremely fit team, but the offense just completely died half way through the season.  No true strikers on the squad.  If they didn't finish then, I don't see a reason why they would now.  But you never know in D3 soccer, anything can happen. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 05, 2016, 09:42:43 AM
I thought RPI's selection last year was an abomination even though they played well in the tournament.  Teams shouldn't be rewarded for not making the top 4 of the LL, in RPI's case the top six.  As for Mr. Right throwing down the gauntlet about today's game--I have been wrong about individual results all year however two words for Skidmore's vaunted defense--Elmira and Union.  But for dropping a game to Hobart after going a man down Vassar has been nails at home.  They have by far the best offense in the league and Skidmore has beaten them about once in the last decade.  To me Vassar is an easy call.  On the LL awards, I agree with Baughen as POY.  Mrlik as a freshman won't get as much consideration and until the tournament did not have a game winning goal.  Defensive POY is Tyler Gilmore whose offensive presence is unmatched by any other defender in the LL.  Mrlik is the next Charlie Kelly, but unlike Kelly will be back next year given his family's legacy at Vassar.  Coaching staff goes to Coach Jennings and his crew.  Hobart returned a ton o players including vaunted underclassmen.  Vassar graduated 10 and returned no first or second teamers.  Arguably Vassar should have four first teamers this year with Mrlik, Gilmore, Gonzalez and Van Brewer.  Last year SLU had 10 LL payers which seems a tad overdone given their results this year.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 01:42:42 PM
Skidmore up 2-1 over Vassar with about 10 minutes left in the 1st half. I am sorry but Skidmore's spine is just much more athletic than Vassar's. Okoye just beat 3 defenders by himself and finish to give Skidmore the lead. That type of skill and athleticism Vassar cannot match IMO.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 05, 2016, 02:06:51 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 01:42:42 PM
Skidmore up 2-1 over Vassar with about 10 minutes left in the 1st half. I am sorry but Skidmore's spine is just much more athletic than Vassar's. Okoye just beat 3 defenders by himself and finish to give Skidmore the lead. That type of skill and athleticism Vassar cannot match IMO.

And the other half of Skidmore's dynamic duo, Oyeniyi, is dominating on the defensive end.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 02:28:40 PM
That is a VERY questionable PK call by the ref in the Skidmore v Vassar game which Vassar converts to tie the game 2-2.....In the old days you would call that a "homer" call...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 02:55:45 PM
Okoye inches away from giving Skidmore a 3-2 lead but just did not get all of it...Still 2-2...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 03:03:08 PM
Both Gk's for Skidmore and Vassar look a bit suspect to me. Vassar's GK looks like he lacks some height which MUST pose problems on set pieces.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 03:06:01 PM
UNBELIEVABLE......Vassar gets another PK on a VERY QUESTIONABLE PK call. Vassar wins the game 3-2 off of 2 PK's that were HOMER calls. How a ref can ruin a season like that is ridiculous. Shameful really...He should be black-balled and get back to the high school game
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 05, 2016, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 05, 2016, 09:42:43 AM
I thought RPI's selection last year was an abomination even though they played well in the tournament.  Teams shouldn't be rewarded for not making the top 4 of the LL, in RPI's case the top six.  As for Mr. Right throwing down the gauntlet about today's game--I have been wrong about individual results all year however two words for Skidmore's vaunted defense--Elmira and Union.  But for dropping a game to Hobart after going a man down Vassar has been nails at home.  They have by far the best offense in the league and Skidmore has beaten them about once in the last decade.  To me Vassar is an easy call.  On the LL awards, I agree with Baughen as POY.  Mrlik as a freshman won't get as much consideration and until the tournament did not have a game winning goal.  Defensive POY is Tyler Gilmore whose offensive presence is unmatched by any other defender in the LL.  Mrlik is the next Charlie Kelly, but unlike Kelly will be back next year given his family's legacy at Vassar.  Coaching staff goes to Coach Jennings and his crew.  Hobart returned a ton o players including vaunted underclassmen.  Vassar graduated 10 and returned no first or second teamers.  Arguably Vassar should have four first teamers this year with Mrlik, Gilmore, Gonzalez and Van Brewer.  Last year SLU had 10 LL payers which seems a tad overdone given their results this year.     

Hmm: Hobart graduated eight of the top 16 players (by minutes) in 2016, lost their assistant coach (to become head coach at Stevens) five days before pre-season, brought in 13 new players, lost four starters to season-ending injuries and turned out to have an OK season.  Congrats to them and to Shawn Griffin.  Binjo Emmanual had to sit out first four games and made a big impact when he got on field (and would be a top three pick for DPOY, though for me the clear top choice is Skidmore's Adebare Oyeniyi).

Congrats to Vassar for finding a way to win, and to the impressive parity of the LL this year.  If this group of teams, and LL newcomer Ithaca, can do a bit better against the out-of-league opponents in 2017, they will start seeing more teams in NCAA.  This year it will be Vassar (who is not defensively stout enough to advance from the first weekend).

A big shout-out to all the seniors, across all the teams, for their commitment and passion to soccer!
Good luck to all in the off-season, there are 286 days until training camps open next Fall.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 08:11:28 PM
I am still left stunned at how that ref is reffing college games after gifting Vassar their NCAA berth. I have no ties to the Skidmore program so imagine how Skidmore feels right now. You could see Skidmore Head Coach Kneeland absolutely blasting the ref after the final whistle.

I do agree that the LL is kind of like Nescac in the fact that some teams under perform out of conference as they do not "get up" for those games as much as LL games. Teams like Hobart and RPI are always challenging themselves out of conference they just need to pick up a few more wins. Hobart ends the season 9-5-4 with a .580 SOS which is solid and had they turned 2 of those early season losses into wins they would be in the NCAA's. Still, they are #5 in the region even with the rough start and change 2 losses into wins they would be ahead of SLU in the rankings at #4 with a Pool C. Right now they are on the bubble but a real long shot because of the 9 blemishes it is almost impossible but if you look around the country a ton of teams have 7-8-9 blemishes. Selection Monday should be interesting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 05, 2016, 09:13:06 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 08:11:28 PM
I am still left stunned at how that ref is reffing college games after gifting Vassar their NCAA berth. I have no ties to the Skidmore program so imagine how Skidmore feels right now. You could see Skidmore Head Coach Kneeland absolutely blasting the ref after the final whistle.

It's definitely a tough pill to swallow for the Thoroughbreds, and I think the majority of the Skidmore faithful shares your sentiments.  I spoke with someone who was at the game and in position to see the play that led to the second PK up close.  It was a smart play by the Vassar player to monitor the flight of the cross and get set up to receive the ball, turn, and move toward goal knowing that contact was likely to occur.  The reaction by the Skidmore player suggested an acknowledgement that he had made a mistake.  If the ref hadn't made the call, the Brewer fans would have been in an uproar. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2016, 12:13:19 PM
MAYBE....MAYBE ...Still a tough call to make as it looked like the Vassar kid almost collided with the  Skidmore kid on purpose to initiate the contact bringing both down. The 1ST PK WAS A COMPLETE JOKE,  Vassar was gifted that Championship and NCAA berth.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: diesel on November 06, 2016, 01:23:29 PM
Skidmore blew the game themselves. They came out in the first half and were all over Vassar- they couldn't keep up and Skidmore had a deserved lead at halftime. But in the second half that changed. Vassar weren't considerably better but they only allowed Skidmore 1-2 clear chances in the second half, which unfortunately they couldn't finish.

Both penalties were clear cut fouls- and the Vassar players certainly embellished the fouls- but when your game plan is to play physically/actively foul Vassar players, you have to expect that plan to backfire. There were late tackles flying in all over- and three Vassar players left the field injured throughout the game. On the last penalty Oyeniyi clearly knew that he hacked down the Vassar player (he didn't question the call at all?) and that it was a foul. The Vassar player was clearly looking for it too- but Oyeniyi took the bait. Very unfortunate for a player of his caliber, after dominating throughout the game, to cost Skidmore the title. First penalty was a bit softer- but the Skidmore player very visibly had two arms around the Vassar player and pulled him down.

Vassar's performance was unconvincing. Had Skidmore exercised more self control with their physicality they would have been champions. Exhaustion from OT/pk shootout with Hobart on Wednesday a cause?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2016, 01:42:39 PM
Quote from: diesel on November 06, 2016, 01:23:29 PM
Skidmore blew the game themselves. They came out in the first half and were all over Vassar- they couldn't keep up and Skidmore had a deserved lead at halftime. But in the second half that changed. Vassar weren't considerably better but they only allowed Skidmore 1-2 clear chances in the second half, which unfortunately they couldn't finish.

Both penalties were clear cut fouls- and the Vassar players certainly embellished the fouls- but when your game plan is to play physically/actively foul Vassar players, you have to expect that plan to backfire. There were late tackles flying in all over- and three Vassar players left the field injured throughout the game. On the last penalty Oyeniyi clearly knew that he hacked down the Vassar player (he didn't question the call at all?) and that it was a foul. The Vassar player was clearly looking for it too- but Oyeniyi took the bait. Very unfortunate for a player of his caliber, after dominating throughout the game, to cost Skidmore the title. First penalty was a bit softer- but the Skidmore player very visibly had two arms around the Vassar player and pulled him down.




Vassar's performance was unconvincing. Had Skidmore exercised more self control with their physicality they would have been champions. Exhaustion from OT/pk shootout with Hobart on Wednesday a cause?



I agree with everythin you posted but I thought the PK's were soft calls...You are correct that Skidmore could have had 1 or 2 more goals in the 1st Half that they dominated but again they could not get it done in the end. Okoye's goal 1st Half was brilliant and they had a chance near the end of the game to go up 3-2 but missed by inched. Oh well...Should be interesting to see where Vassar is headed in the NCAA's. Does the committee send them to a New England Region pod or do they stay in a New York pod possibly at Cortland?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 06, 2016, 02:10:23 PM
It will be interesting to see how far Vassar goes.  Assuming they don't host, they have played very few games on the road and  it took some well-timed penalties at home against Union and Skidmore to be where they are.  In fact, if Hobart clinches the deal in penalties against Skidmore, or Skidmore holds on for the last six minutes against Union, Vassar has to clinch on the road and the story likely would have been very much different.  Be that as it may, Skidmore's blown game against Union put them in a position to lose because of some home-influenced calls (someone has to be truly hammered to draw a penalty with 3 seconds left) and overall Vassar is a much better NCAA representative than Skidmore based on its performance throughout the season.  Vassar will return all of their impact players next year barring a transfer or injury so the rest of the league has a year to figure out how to shut down their very productive offense.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2016, 02:15:19 PM
I think it is a little much to say that Vassar will be a MUCh better representative than Skidmore in the NCAA's. Vassar will NOT be hosting anything as they will be sent on the road
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: diesel on November 06, 2016, 03:08:41 PM
I have watched Vassar throughout the season- when they are playing their game they a are very, very good team. The games that stood out to me were their games against UofR and SLU. Despite the stats of 14-5 shots on the UofR game, Vassar were all over Rochester. The Vassar keeper was only forced to make 4 saves the entire game- all the other shots were off target from long distance. Vassar ran circles around Rochester, and at one point in the second half they looked untouchable. And in the SLU game Vassar had an incredible amount of chances to score and put SLU away- SLU scored off a wondergoal and hung on as much as they could.

How Vassar does in the NCAA's will really depend on who they face. Teams like Skidmore, Union, and Hobart were Vassar's toughest challenges because of their physically grinding gameplay and/or high intensity pressure. If they face a team that can coordinate an organized, high intensity press, Vassar will struggle. But if they play against a team which allows them easy possession in the back, Vassar will stomp their opponent (RPI's press was nonexistent in the semi- and look what happened). In previous years Vassar has folded when faced with this intense pressure and physicality, but this year they appear to be better at managing the challenge and responding- and the penalties against Union and Skidmore were a result of Vassar responding well and continuing their possession based game, which tends to draw fouls (they drew the most Pk's in the regular season- tied with SLU).

On their day, I think that Vassar is most certainly the best team in the LL. They have shown the ability to grind out wins even when faced with tough opposition. And although I recognize that Skidmore has a very talented and capable team, they had some questionable results this season, such as the loss to Elmira at home and choking a lead up to a Union team without two of their main players (red cards from Vassar game). However, the LL championship visibly showed Vassar's weakness against a strong physical team. It will be very interesting to see where they are placed and who they play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2016, 03:17:16 PM
I have only see Vassar 3 times this season on the stream but they look like a good not great but good side. My concern would be in net as their GK looks a tad short and if they play a team with some height and good on set pieces that could be a liability.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: diesel on November 06, 2016, 03:25:07 PM
The replacement goalie from yesterday actually looked more willing to come out and get the ball on set pieces than the starter- he seems to be much more of a raw and athletic goalie. Unfortunately his height does present a challenge to him- if Vassar were to play a team like Amherst it would be quite a show.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 06, 2016, 03:59:08 PM
For Skidmore, it was a season of missed opportunities.  As Diesel noted, the Elmira game and the Union game stand out, along with the Baruch game and the second half of yesterday's game, with Vassar's starting GK and half the starting back line (including the athletic Gilmore, the player presumably tasked with handling Okoye) knocked out of the game with injuries.

My impression over the course of the season was that Vassar was the most balanced team in the league from the back line through the midfield into the attacking third, which helped them game-in and game-out but may not serve them as well in a single elimination context.  Special players often determine a team's fate in  tournament settings and Skidmore had, in my mind, the league's two most special players.  That said, the NCAA tournament features teams with both balance AND special players, which is why I think that SLU, if they get in, has the highest ceiling of a LL team in the tournament, particularly with Vassar potentially missing some key players on the defensive end.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DIII41 on November 06, 2016, 06:23:46 PM
https://boxcast.tv/highlights/liberty-league-championships---vassar-mens-soccer-vs-skidmore-385170/652713/ifnajjnhf4nglojcbu13     

video link to play that resulted in PK of Vassar/Skidmore.  a PK call that would be made "all day long"!   Defender had player going away from goal, and obviously only had to challenge him to hold that position ....But diving in was a disastrous temptation.  Ouch! 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 06, 2016, 06:32:47 PM
Anybody know why SLU only played 15 games?  Seems 2-3 short, even without the LL playoffs.  And I don't see any canceled games.  13-4 or 12-4-1 would look a little better obviously than 11-4.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 06, 2016, 08:16:34 PM
They haven't been scheduling as much games in recent years.  I'm not sure why.  They've left UofR off the schedule the last 2 years, which was always an annual non-conference matchup.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on November 06, 2016, 08:22:47 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 06, 2016, 08:16:34 PM
They haven't been scheduling as much games in recent years.  I'm not sure why.  They've left UofR off the schedule the last 2 years, which was always an annual non-conference matchup.

More like UofR left SLU off the schedule.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 07, 2016, 11:13:14 AM
Quote from: stlawus on November 06, 2016, 08:16:34 PM
They haven't been scheduling as much games in recent years.  I'm not sure why.  They've left UofR off the schedule the last 2 years, which was always an annual non-conference matchup.

U of R didn't like making the trip to the North Country for the back-to-back games vs. SLU and Clarkson, because the UAA plays Friday/Sunday.  I'm guessing that U of R was also tired of getting beat on by SLU, usually resulting in them having a loss to another top team in the East.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2016, 01:19:05 PM
SLU stumbles and skates their way into the tourney.  Personally, I didn't think they were deserving, but once I saw Rochester in I felt pretty confident they would grab a bid.  Tough test against Wash & Lee, but anything can happen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 07, 2016, 01:23:04 PM
SLU sneaks in with the last matchup announced in the show. Definitely a tough draw, but for them to get a chance at all is fortunate.  They're also in Cortland's region, who they beat this year and acutally beat last year at Cortland.  With this being the most questionable SLU squad since 2009, maybe they piece it together and make a run? The best teams they've had in the past 8 years have all faltered in the Sweet 16, so we shall see!

Let's dance!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 07, 2016, 01:57:17 PM
Second year in a row the LL sends a team that didn't make the conference tournament to the NCAAs. Hmm. Kind of devalues the conference tournament, doesn't it. Would Hobart have gotten in if they didn't lose to Skidmore in the LL tourney?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: just4kix on November 07, 2016, 02:18:36 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on November 07, 2016, 01:57:17 PM
Second year in a row the LL sends a team that didn't make the conference tournament to the NCAAs. Hmm. Kind of devalues the conference tournament, doesn't it. Would Hobart have gotten in if they didn't lose to Skidmore in the LL tourney?

I think it's the other way around.  The conference tournament devalues the regular season.  The sole purpose is to determine a conference's AQ.  For others who qualify but don't win, it's just another set of games in your overall body of work.  I don't understand conference tournaments except as a money grab in revenue-generating sports.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 07, 2016, 02:28:58 PM
It is a terrible precedent.  Given the way that SLU was playing they would have picked up a 5th loss in the LL tournament if they had made it with a 4-4 record.  Might as well go to a UAA system, eliminate the tourney and have the league winner be the automatic qualifier.  I use to think that the committee used to take into account year end performance more than pre-season, a time when teams are getting the kinks out.  SLU, Brandeis, Tufts all lose their last game to lesser opponents and still make the tourney.  Rochester goes 1-3-1 in last five with a losing UAA record and makes the tourney.  Might as well start giving legacy berths.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 08, 2016, 03:26:38 PM
I can sympathize and partially agree with some of the views regarding SLU's bid to the dance.
I will say though that if the  bids are predicated on RvR which I translate to meaning that the definition of a good team is one that consistently beats good teams, then the Saints are understandable if not deserved participants.

This team for all its problems putting the ball in the back of the net did beat a good Plattsburgh team at home (while Plattsburgh was playing its best soccer of the year), went undefeated playing most of the SUNYAC (arguably one of the toughest conferences in the country).

Beat a very good Vassar team.

Losses to Hobart/Skidmore and RPI no doubt hurt, but those are good teams, and St. Lawrence competed well in all those losses.

I think the program was robbed by not getting a bid in 2006, as I thought we deserved it more that year, but that's just soccer.

*Please take the above with a grain of salt as well, I am self aware enough to understand that subconsciously I might not be the most objective*
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 08, 2016, 05:23:52 PM
I think the Cortland win was a good one. However, the others they played including Plattsburgh were not up to snuff and had they played Oneonta we would have a better idea. Oneonta will play anyone anywhere so i highly doubt they were not interested or have been interested to get SLU on their schedule. Maybe UR dropped SLU but i would bet SLU declines to play Oneonta which is a shame.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 09, 2016, 02:47:50 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 05, 2016, 09:42:43 AM
Mrlik is the next Charlie Kelly, but unlike Kelly will be back next year given his family's legacy at Vassar.     

Your post got me thinking about how Hobart's star might have risen had Kelly stayed (he would have been a senior this year) and about how important retention of players is to a program's success.  One wonders how things might have worked out differently had, for example, Nick Martinelli stayed at Skidmore (he also would have been a senior this year) and Austin Dilts remained at St. Lawrence (which reminds me, is Chandler Short, former LL RoY, still at SLU?). 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 09, 2016, 10:06:11 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 08, 2016, 05:23:52 PM
I think the Cortland win was a good one. However, the others they played including Plattsburgh were not up to snuff and had they played Oneonta we would have a better idea. Oneonta will play anyone anywhere so i highly doubt they were not interested or have been interested to get SLU on their schedule. Maybe UR dropped SLU but i would bet SLU declines to play Oneonta which is a shame.

Oneonta and SLU have been in talks to get each other on the calendar for a 2-3 year contract. They play each other in spring or presesason regularly, with SLU beating Oneonta last spring in Oneonta. Should be a great fixture for years to come.

Quote from: Ommadawn on November 09, 2016, 02:47:50 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 05, 2016, 09:42:43 AM
Mrlik is the next Charlie Kelly, but unlike Kelly will be back next year given his family's legacy at Vassar.     

Your post got me thinking about how Hobart's star might have risen had Kelly stayed (he would have been a senior this year) and about how important retention of players is to a program's success.  One wonders how things might have worked out differently had, for example, Nick Martinelli stayed at Skidmore (he also would have been a senior this year) and Austin Dilts remained at St. Lawrence (which reminds me, is Chandler Short, former LL RoY, still at SLU?). 

Short is no longer at SLU. Not really sure what happened there.  I will tell you that SLU has some seriously dangerous players that were either injured or no eligible this year, on top of an elite recruiting class. Looking forward to seeing what happens there next year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 09, 2016, 10:23:58 AM
Short was a great Saint who would have only enhanced his legacy had he stayed.
He was also good for about 4 goals a year which is sorely missing in the squad.

Austin Diltz (as stated somewhere else earlier) was a special talent who is also missed, and the potential gem of this years freshman's class did not play...
Still, I think the team has a Saint or two on the roster now who are all-time greats and a few with the potential to be.

Hunger is the last ingredient needed to make a big run, we will see how much is there this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 11, 2016, 11:30:47 PM
The Saints definitely represented themselves and the league well in PA tonight.  They outplayed W&L from start to finish, but things did not go their way in PKs.  It's a tough way to go out for the seniors, but valuable experience for the rest of the squad. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 11, 2016, 11:46:36 PM
SLU loses in PKS. Injustice ended yet not rectified.  SLU can still tell recruits that they make the NCAAs every year no matter what their league performance.  SLU putting 7 on the all LL team with the most points for any team (3 for First Team, 2 for Second, 1 for HM) was also an injustice that also will never be remedied.  I know this board has a bunch of SLU supporters but this was a down year for SLU and it should have been recognized as that by the NCAA and the League.  I respect your assessment of their play tonight but going out in the first round is not representing the league well.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 12, 2016, 09:52:13 PM
Brewers go down in OT.  The Vassar right mid got absolutely skinned on that goal.  CB whiffed on the clearance, slow moving ball as well.  Reminded me of Ronaldo's goal against Turkey in the 2002 World Cup.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 12, 2016, 10:42:19 PM
With a couple of notable exceptions, SLU's win over Cortland, and Vassar's win over Rochester, this was a down year for the LL.  Vassar runs out of home luck on the road in a game that was not as close as the score line.  E-Town looks to go left the entire second half and it finally paid off in overtime. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 13, 2016, 01:26:45 AM
I'm not so sure that Vassar ran out of luck so much as ran out of players  ;)  It looked like 3 starters from last week's LL title game played 0 minutes tonight and one of the replacements (on the right side IIRC) went out with an injury in the first few minutes of the game and did not return. Teams can never have too much depth at this time of the season!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 09:32:46 AM
-1 for deutschfan as saying SLU did not represent the LL well is ridiculous. I thought they did not deserve their Pool C bid and if it was a SLU team of old they would have easily dispatched that W&L team. I did not catch the ETOWN v Vassar game but it sounds like a soft goal they up?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 13, 2016, 01:10:27 PM
After many years on this board I was due to have my negative karma cherry broken.  As Tom Hanks said to Matt Damon at the end of "Saving Private Ryan"--"Earn this."  SLU did not earn its spot in the NCAA tourney and, once given the gift of post season life, didn't earn it there either.  One and done is not a distinguished showing.  Brandell gets the goal.  I didn't see the game so I don't know if the staff moved him forward to make up for the struggling offense.  If so, it was about time.  The goal against Vassar was a good run against a depleted right side.  Elizabethtown had fewer shots but better chances.  My hope next year is that the LL teams seek out top teams within the region and outside it, get quality wins, and maintain some consistency. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 13, 2016, 02:44:17 PM
Yes they moved Brandell up into central midfield.  Played Barrel-Arteta as a sweeper.  I said from the beginning that I didn't think SLU should have made it.  To me a loss against Clarkson was enough to offset a quality win.  They were the better team in regulation IMO, but W&L defended well.  SLU has been absolutely awful in PKs in recent years, so I had a pretty bad feeling once OT ended. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 13, 2016, 06:59:53 PM
Brandell did well in his midfield role.
Don't forget that this man led the team in scoring with 8 goals his sophomore year 2014 (before season ending injury in pre-season 2015.
Also had a few goals his freshman year and 2 game winners this year.
He is a great Saint and I for one hope he comes back next season.
It takes a special person/player to miss an entire year through injury, do all the hard work and rehab required and come back to play at a high level and captain a team where the competition is fiece.

As to the poster that opined the Saints were undeserving of a bid this year, and did not represent themselves well, I disagree.

Every Saint knows that we do not do well in penalties. We are very much like the English in that regard.
Losing in penalties is no shame, especially  when you out shoot and out posses the opponent by 60%.

Haverford, a very good team, lost today in penalties.
Penalties are a toss-up and anything can happen.
One thing that normally does is great players miss shots {Maybe the people who want it the most, place the most pressure on themselves)
Dr. Socratees
Zico
Roberto Baggio
Messi
to name a few.
The SLU #5 now finds himself on this list unfortunately, but it does not reflect negatively on how good these players or teams are.

Saints have work to do, and need strikers in a bad way (24 goals this season), but the team is very young and deep.

New Coach also deserves one more year at the helm I think to see his system and new way of doing things take hold, but I still think this teams best years are ahead of them.

As for a league as a whole, I also think the LL will be strong next year.
Vassar has some really good young Ballers
Hobart is legit with a great coaching staff
RPI as you know, can NEVER be counted out.
Clarkson are on an upswing
Skidmore were back to back tourney finalists.
Union finished strong and barely missed out.

Now, lets all cheer for the SUNYAC boyz!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on March 11, 2017, 02:27:59 PM
Liberty League will be a tough league next year, and hopefully more teams from the conference will find themselves dancing in 2017. If you could pick 11 players from any team in the LL era, who would be on your All Star team
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on March 23, 2017, 11:04:09 AM
SLU with a very strong recruiting class coming in, building on some talented freshman last year (many of whom didn't get minutes due to injury).  Expect to see them back in the mix for the regular season title. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 23, 2017, 02:18:17 PM
Quote from: SandyMac on March 23, 2017, 11:04:09 AM
SLU with a very strong recruiting class coming in, building on some talented freshman last year (many of whom didn't get minutes due to injury).  Expect to see them back in the mix for the regular season title.

Is Brandell coming back for his last year of eligibility?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 23, 2017, 12:47:41 AM
SLU's schedule was just released.  Road warriors this year, only 1 non-conference home game and only 5 in total.  Solid non-conference schedule with Babson, Wheaton and Oneonta.  RI College is an interesting fixture, as they won their regular season last year.  The traditional Plattsburgh and Oswego games are there as expected.  No Potsdam or Canton, usually there's at least 1 game against them.  Looks like Tosh asked Durocher for a beefier out of conference schedule after last year's tourney scare.  Should be some tough tests for the young squad. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on June 26, 2017, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: stlawus on March 23, 2017, 02:18:17 PM
Quote from: SandyMac on March 23, 2017, 11:04:09 AM
SLU with a very strong recruiting class coming in, building on some talented freshman last year (many of whom didn't get minutes due to injury).  Expect to see them back in the mix for the regular season title.

Is Brandell coming back for his last year of eligibility?

Yes.
SLU #8 is coming back, and I think he will have a great senior year.
This man scored twice in the NCAA Tourney his freshman year
Came back as a top scorer in 2014
Missed the entire 2015 with an injury sustained in preseason.
Played a great season last year in a brand new position and scored the teams only goal in the dance.

He is quite a player and should lead a much more talented SLU squad in 2017.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 27, 2017, 01:45:29 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on June 26, 2017, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: stlawus on March 23, 2017, 02:18:17 PM
Quote from: SandyMac on March 23, 2017, 11:04:09 AM
SLU with a very strong recruiting class coming in, building on some talented freshman last year (many of whom didn't get minutes due to injury).  Expect to see them back in the mix for the regular season title.

Is Brandell coming back for his last year of eligibility?

Yes.
SLU #8 is coming back, and I think he will have a great senior year.
This man scored twice in the NCAA Tourney his freshman year
Came back as a top scorer in 2014
Missed the entire 2015 with an injury sustained in preseason.
Played a great season last year in a brand new position and scored the teams only goal in the dance.

He is quite a player and should lead a much more talented SLU squad in 2017.

Excellent news.  He's been a huge part of the team as you've described.  There have been some redshirt guys that have not returned for their last season of eligibility in recent years so I was expecting him to do the same.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on June 27, 2017, 08:34:17 PM
Oh yes.
That trend needed to be broken.
Big year for the program.
With Ithaca in the mix it wont get any easier in the conference, but with a good non conference schedule and a few good men coming in, hopefully we will be able to compete in a strong conference with Vassar, Hobart, a recently strong Skidmore squad, the ever dangerous RPI and an up and coming Union squad who should be much improved.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on June 29, 2017, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on June 27, 2017, 08:34:17 PM
Oh yes.
That trend needed to be broken.
Big year for the program.
With Ithaca in the mix it wont get any easier in the conference, but with a good non conference schedule and a few good men coming in, hopefully we will be able to compete in a strong conference with Vassar, Hobart, a recently strong Skidmore squad, the ever dangerous RPI and an up and coming Union squad who should be much improved.

Saint, you need not be so pessimistic.  To me the question is not whether SLU "will be able to compete," but whether they will be able to resume their domination of the league.  The talent is certainly there for that to happen, and the squad showed signs last year of returning to the level of play to which we had all grown accustomed. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 02, 2017, 08:38:44 AM
Not sure Omma,

I hope so, but as you know as a veteran as well it is a big difference between having potential, being good on paper and actually producing.
With a 6 team playoff it means that each conference game has even added significance for all the teams.

I just have a feeling that Union come very hard this year and no way to count out hungry Vassar trying to go back to back for the first time in their history.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 02, 2017, 08:40:23 AM
How about some old school Liberty League (UCAA) action while we wait for the league to begin.

As a Jamaican prophet once said "Good things don't get old, they become classic!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX2FE_iqPF4
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 02, 2017, 11:46:49 PM
Wow, thanks for linking that SoO.  Watched all the vids so far.  I went to a few of these games as a kid, brings back memories. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on July 06, 2017, 10:49:28 AM
How about we throw it back to one of the most memorable games in recent LL playoff history. What a crowd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3MvqxM8_jA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3MvqxM8_jA)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 06, 2017, 11:47:32 AM
I was @ that game!
I think I rushed the field as well!

That was a wonderful season, then 2011 the team almost went all the way.

Ohhhh, that famous SLU # 7shirt :)

Waiting to see who wears it this year...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on July 06, 2017, 02:16:42 PM
Some great finishes in that highlight and the thru ball to #7 on the 2nd goal was fantastic
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 10, 2017, 08:19:10 PM
This is why you Sir are a Baller!
You didn't complement the run (which was good) or the finish (also great), but you saw the pass!!!!
What a pass that was, shows vision/timing/skill avoiding an offside call.
Absolutely brilliant.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 11, 2017, 05:55:16 PM
Hate to break up the SLU love fest but it is time to start looking forward to the fall for all the Liberty League teams, not only last year's fifth place league finisher.  There has been some Union hype permeating this board and the emerging teams board.  Union is not going to make the dance this year or any year until they start playing quality non-conference teams.  Their 2017 schedule is incredibly soft even by Union standards.  Perhaps the RPI and SLU precedents of making the NCAA tourney without making the LL tourney based on non-conference wins has convinced the Union coaching staff that fixtures with cream puffs is the way to go.  At least RPI and SLU played some quality non-conference opponents in their asterisk seasons.  Its summer and I can smell the pre-season.  Looking forward to the banter.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on July 11, 2017, 10:58:15 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on July 06, 2017, 11:47:32 AM
I was @ that game!
I think I rushed the field as well!

That was a wonderful season, then 2011 the team almost went all the way.

Ohhhh, that famous SLU # 7shirt :)

Waiting to see who wears it this year...



Isnt that the new Hobart assistant coach? Bednarsky?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 12, 2017, 08:29:57 AM
Yes.
That is Andrew Bender the new Hobart asst Coach.
Which leads to a perfect transition from our Saint lovefest :)

Hobart was a very good team last year. I think it was a shame they did not get a bid, but clearly they are a strong team who will no doubt challenge again. I think having Bender helped this team who was already well coached.
The last few years they seem to just have a few unexplainable bad losses, but when they come to play they are a handful for anyone in the league.

The LL is much like the Premiership in that there are always 6 teams competing for 4 spots.

With Ithaca joining this year the struggle to get into one of the 6 spots does not get much easier.
I can easily see: Union/Clarkson/Hobart/Ithaca/ Skidmore/SLU/RPI/RIT getting a top 6 positions, which means 2 teams will be missing out.

It seems Union is due, I know from experience they have a solid alumni and the program will have post season expectations especially now.
Union has to improve their  non-conference however.
SLU has dropped Potsdam in favor of Oneonta.
Although Potsdam is a much improved program, Oneonta is one of the strongest teams in the region.

One thing we will not see now however is a team making dance without making LL post season.
It wont happen so no more asterisk seasons for anyone!

I agree, I cannot wait for the season to begin.
This is a very even league I think and we might end up with 4 teams in the LL playoffs who were not there in 2016.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on July 12, 2017, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on July 12, 2017, 08:29:57 AM
With Ithaca joining this year the struggle to get into one of the 6 spots does not get much easier.
I can easily see: Union/Clarkson/Hobart/Ithaca/ Skidmore/SLU/RPI/RIT getting a top 6 positions, which means 2 teams will be missing out.

I think that the Vassar Brewers have a good shot at making the LL playoffs as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on July 12, 2017, 12:15:24 PM
I thought Clarkson was much improved last year and can see a difference in the job the coach is doing as they were very competitive in most LL contests and just missed out on the Play-offs.

With Skidmore graduating some key players I would assume they drop off considerably unless they bring in a couple studs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 12, 2017, 12:42:54 PM
At this juncture without announcements about the incoming class I look at returners, and especially returning all league players.  SLU's finish last year was an anomaly.  Despite some talented frontrunners the goals dried up in league.  They return almost everyone except Noah Bunton, a second teamer who happened to get first team all-region with mediocre stats and over the LL player of the year, Devon Baughen.  Ridiculous, but getting back to the issue--SLU will be in the hunt.  Vassar returns everyone and their senior class has a number of four year starters.  They are a lock as well.  I agree that Skidmore missed its best chance when the only All American in the LL last year hacked a Vassar player in the box of a tie game with a minute left.  Unless Skidmore reloads they are going to be looking in from the outside.  Coach Taylor has had Clarkson on the rise since taking over and the obvious next step is the playoffs.  I don't understand the notion that Ithaca is going to have an immediate impact.  Historically they have fared very poorly against LL opponents, and indeed, against all their non-conference foes.  I see them as a spoiler with an upward trajectory over the next few years as opposed to RIT which started as a LL finalist and has been on the decline ever since.  Union may make the playoffs but only if the difficult non-conference schedule takes a toll on the other teams due to injury while Union cake walks through its fixtures.  Otherwise, they will not be ready for the caliber of teams they will be playing when the LL games commence. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on July 12, 2017, 02:57:26 PM
Hobart has really come up with a challenging schedule this year. Out of conference games are:

ECONN, Brandeis, Rochester, Cortland, Geneseo, Potsdam and Utica.

Add that to their LL schedule and you are looking at a .585-.590 SOS. Now Hobart had a similar challenging schedule last year but they stumbled hard to open the year and closed with a 3-4-2 record Out of Conference and after a 6-1-1 Conference record they were left out of the NCAA's because of that non-conference record and some really lopsided losses to NCAA teams for instance a 5-0 thrashing by Cortland.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on July 12, 2017, 03:11:26 PM
Vassar has a interesting schedule with 3 very challenging games against Wesleyan, Oneonta and at Stevens with 4 cupcakes sprinkled in
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on July 12, 2017, 03:21:47 PM
Yep: Hobart had injury problems early that led to some poor results, and then a stinker against Cortland. Suspect they could have overcome either, but not both, for NCAA consideration. 2017 beckons and Griffin has stocked his non-conference schedule again. 

Suspect that SLU and Vassar will be contending with Hobart, RPI and possibly Clarkson for top four. Skidmore and Union could be in the mix, too.  Bard, Ithaca and RIT are all able to get wins in conference games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 12, 2017, 03:33:14 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on July 12, 2017, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on July 12, 2017, 08:29:57 AM
With Ithaca joining this year the struggle to get into one of the 6 spots does not get much easier.
I can easily see: Union/Clarkson/Hobart/Ithaca/ Skidmore/SLU/RPI/RIT getting a top 6 positions, which means 2 teams will be missing out.

I think that the Vassar Brewers have a good shot at making the LL playoffs as well.

Total oversight on my part.
Vassar not only will be in the mix, but the defending conference champions are definitely one of the favorites to win the league.
The boyz from down south have been doing quite well over the last decade or so and as I said in another thread an up and coming power in the region and possibly nation.

I would go as far as saying every single team in the LL has a chance of making the playoffs which is now expanded to 6 teams.

Bard is perhaps the odd man out, but their coach before his sad and sudden passing, had Bard on the upswing as well, winning conference games and competing week in week out with some great games even when they lost.

What a year this will be in the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: sokermom on July 19, 2017, 09:15:12 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on July 12, 2017, 12:42:54 PM
At this juncture without announcements about the incoming class I look at returners, and especially returning all league players.  SLU's finish last year was an anomaly.  Despite some talented frontrunners the goals dried up in league.  They return almost everyone except Noah Bunton, a second teamer who happened to get first team all-region with mediocre stats and over the LL player of the year, Devon Baughen.  Ridiculous, but getting back to the issue--SLU will be in the hunt.  Vassar returns everyone and their senior class has a number of four year starters.  They are a lock as well.  I agree that Skidmore missed its best chance when the only All American in the LL last year hacked a Vassar player in the box of a tie game with a minute left.  Unless Skidmore reloads they are going to be looking in from the outside.  Coach Taylor has had Clarkson on the rise since taking over and the obvious next step is the playoffs.  I don't understand the notion that Ithaca is going to have an immediate impact.  Historically they have fared very poorly against LL opponents, and indeed, against all their non-conference foes.  I see them as a spoiler with an upward trajectory over the next few years as opposed to RIT which started as a LL finalist and has been on the decline ever since.  Union may make the playoffs but only if the difficult non-conference schedule takes a toll on the other teams due to injury while Union cake walks through its fixtures.  Otherwise, they will not be ready for the caliber of teams they will be playing when the LL games commence.

During the recruitment circuit last year, my son watched Clarkson vs. RIT that ended in a tie.  I remember my son saying soccer was bad.  RIT coach played his freshman son in the center and he was not that good.  This year, I think RIT did draw D1 transfer players from a program (Univ. of Albany?) that disbanded. So RIT may be good.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on July 19, 2017, 10:38:50 AM
University of Albany did not disband and actually coach Gorman who is legendary Penn State coach Trevor Gorman's son has done a really nice job turning that program around. He got to the 2nd Round of the NCAA's and beat BC 3-0 in the 1st round. This program was an absolute doormat about 7-8 years ago under overmatched Head Coach Johan Arroyo and went 1-15-0 and got fired. He was a former Head Coach at RPI and drove both programs into the ground. Gorman has done very well at Albany and should be in the discussion for Top schools in D1 when they open.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dog Face on July 19, 2017, 11:28:09 AM
It's U Buffalo that dropped soccer
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on July 19, 2017, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on July 19, 2017, 10:38:50 AM
University of Albany did not disband and actually coach Gorman who is legendary Penn State coach Trevor Gorman's son has done a really nice job turning that program around.
Small correction--got their names mixed: Barry is the father; Trevor the son.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on July 19, 2017, 02:39:20 PM
Yes...I meant Barry Gorman
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: sokermom on July 19, 2017, 04:25:00 PM
Quote from: Dog Face on July 19, 2017, 11:28:09 AM
It's U Buffalo that dropped soccer

Thanks.  I didn't remember...knew it was some NY program.  Anyways, heard that RIT snagged some of those players.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 21, 2017, 12:56:31 PM
Coach Taylor issued a press release on the incoming Clarkson class. Defenders and midfielders with no USSDA platers identified. He had a bunch of forwards already on his roster so maybe he didn't think he needed another frontrunner or one simply did not sign up. I wish other LL teams would post releases about their new classes. SLU did so last year and some other D3 schools are getting in the act. If a soccer power like Cal Tech does it everyone should. It is SOP for D1 schools.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: sokermom on July 21, 2017, 01:38:38 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on July 21, 2017, 12:56:31 PM
Coach Taylor issued a press release on the incoming Clarkson class. Defenders and midfielders with no USSDA platers identified. He had a bunch of forwards already on his roster so maybe he didn't think he needed another frontrunner or one simply did not sign up. I wish other LL teams would post releases about their new classes. SLU did so last year and some other D3 schools are getting in the act. If a soccer power like Cal Tech does it everyone should. It is SOP for D1 schools.

Clarkson is a good school but so darn difficult to get to.  No airport no nothing.  My son was courted by Coach Taylor but once we figured that flying or driving it takes one full day to reach there and in winter all roads become impassable we took a pass on that school.  Great engineering school with co-op and 100% job assurance after graduation.  Good opportunity for kids living near by driving distance in NY. But can understand why they can't attract players. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on July 21, 2017, 01:48:32 PM
Quote from: sokermom on July 21, 2017, 01:38:38 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on July 21, 2017, 12:56:31 PM
Coach Taylor issued a press release on the incoming Clarkson class. Defenders and midfielders with no USSDA platers identified. He had a bunch of forwards already on his roster so maybe he didn't think he needed another frontrunner or one simply did not sign up. I wish other LL teams would post releases about their new classes. SLU did so last year and some other D3 schools are getting in the act. If a soccer power like Cal Tech does it everyone should. It is SOP for D1 schools.

Clarkson is a good school but so darn difficult to get to.  No airport no nothing.  My son was courted by Coach Taylor but once we figured that flying or driving it takes one full day to reach there and in winter all roads become impassable we took a pass on that school.  Great engineering school with co-op and 100% job assurance after graduation.  Good opportunity for kids living near by driving distance in NY. But can understand why they can't attract players.

Funny, because SLU is 10 minutes away and attracts players from California, the mid-Atlantic, the Toronto area, and the Caribbean on a regular basis.  I don't think that's a valid argument.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: sokermom on July 21, 2017, 01:52:57 PM
@SandyMac, in our case that was the reason.  Maybe I am wrong in generalizing it. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on July 21, 2017, 02:03:21 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on July 21, 2017, 12:56:31 PMI wish other LL teams would post releases about their new classes. SLU did so last year and some other D3 schools are getting in the act. If a soccer power like Cal Tech does it everyone should. It is SOP for D1 schools.

As a fan, I really appreciate and enjoy the press releases announcing the incoming classes. Some coaches, however, do not want to "tip their hands" regarding their new players, and some institutions refrain from such announcements to avoid perceptions of "overemphasis" on sport.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 21, 2017, 03:53:51 PM
Two valid points but I don't think schools like Cal Tech and the University of Chicago are too worried about being characterized as jock schools.  Same is true with all the Nescacs, UAAs,  the Centennials, and the Liberty League schools.  That is not to say that fine athletes are not on the campuses of all of those schools. Union won the D1 men's hockey championship in the near past.  However, even for those athletes the primary concern is academics and life afyer college athletics.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dog Face on July 21, 2017, 04:07:15 PM
We've been really impressed by Coach Taylor's marketing- he's at the tournaments, follows up with emails, send updates and videos on how they're doing and what they're trying to accomplish.  Selling the strong points of the school and explaining what he's trying to do in building a program.

He's got some obstacles in recruiting (not a recognized LL program historically, middle of nowhere, 70% guys, D1 hockey).  I never met the guy, as it wasn't what my sons were looking for (we did visit St. L- flew into Albany), but based on his marketing (based on the content, and the fact that he seems to be putting in the effort to build a program), I've recommended that kids looking for engineering give it a look.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: sokermom on July 21, 2017, 04:57:18 PM
@Dog Face, agree 100% with you regarding Clarkson.  Seems like a good school with a program looking to rise above the fray.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 21, 2017, 09:57:35 PM
If you flew into Albany then you could have flown into Ogdensburg which is pretty close to Clarkson/SLU.  It's a small plane but gets you there. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 22, 2017, 05:26:22 PM
Coach Taylor has great rapport with his players and that has to help recruiting.  Clarkson looks like it is on a similar trajectory to the program of another Andy Jennings former assistant, Nate Gibboney.  In 5 years Coach Gibboney turned around a program at a 1300 student liberal arts college in the middle of Pennsylvania to dethrone Messiah.  Incredible accomplishment.  The SLU win last year should have been program defining for Clarkson.  Alas, the committee gifted SLU an NCAA birth so I assume players looking at SLU and Clarkson will hear from the SLU side that we always go to the playoffs pretty much no matter what.  That is a tough fact for Coach Taylor to recruit against.  Back to back wins against SLU, and SLU not making the NCAA playoffs in 2017 would start to level the playing field. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 24, 2017, 09:31:05 AM
Clarkson is a program that made it to the Final 4 in the mid 90s and was consistently one of the best teams in the region during hat decade. It has been a rough 15 years for the program.

Taylor was a class player and accomplished a lot during his college years.
The former Coach was also an All American and quality player in college.

Hopefully the local law enforcement does not try and frame Taylor as well and the program should fight for that 6th and final playoff spot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 04, 2017, 02:16:35 PM
Honored to put up the first August 2017 LL thread post.  Coaches preseason poll out and no LL team received any votes.  Since the poll usually mirrors the previous year's NCAA performance, the absence is not surprising given SLU and Vassar's early exits.  However, looking at the number of players who graduated from those teams in 2017 both should have been ranked or at least received votes imho.  Both teams have a tremendous core of impact players returning.  On a different subject, RPI's summer trip to Costa Rica gives them an edge going into the season.  Last time they went to Costa Rica in 2014 they made waves in the LL and wound up losing in the LL playoff finals 1-0 to SLU.  RPI should have received an NCAA bid that year.  The snub probably resulted in the gift they received in 2015.  That is neither here nor there to the main point that teams that travel abroad to play in the summer have a substantial advantage over teams that don't.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 04, 2017, 03:13:57 PM
I would prefer to stay unranked entering the season.  SLU's reputation still carries a lot of weight, but a ranking puts a target on your back early.  Decent core returning for this year's SLU squad.  5th year senior Rob Brandell is going to be a major presence on the team.  Tosh got a good haul of recruits as well.  I think the league is going to be the toughest it's been in quite some time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 26, 2017, 06:24:57 PM
Hobart and Bard rosters up.  Anyone familiar with the abilities of the new additions or are there any notables expected to have returned but not?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on August 26, 2017, 11:30:38 PM
Bard lost a lot of strong players from last year's senior class, so it could be a rebuilding year.  Hobart returns most of their strongest players from last year, so expectations are high that this might be the year for a breakthrough.  I am not familiar with the newcomers on either side, though. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 27, 2017, 09:03:02 AM
Thanks Omma.  SLU also up but listing just one freshman. I assume that is because there may be cuts before the end of pre-season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on August 27, 2017, 06:26:41 PM
Ithaca's 2017 roster is also up: 11 freshman on squad of 29. 
Curious to see how the new coach and new players (including at least one D1 transfer) make their way through the league schedule.

Hobart scrimmages Oswego (who has a new coach and high hopes) on Tuesday evening.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 28, 2017, 05:57:24 PM
SLU's roster is up.  Guys ranging from Maine to Spain to Kenya.  I knew Tosh was really branching out for recruiting this year, brought in a good haul.  Can't wait for the action to start this weekend!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 29, 2017, 10:12:33 AM
Most of rosters up.  A couple of observations.  First, an apparent dearth of USSDA players.  The ability of NESCAC and UAA schools, as well as other historical d3 powerhouses to grab them will detriment LL teams come dance time.  Second, comparing the classes of Vassar and SLU, last year's two dance participants, raises the age-old question does size matter (which it obviously does to Coach Tosch).  SLU brought in 11 players averaging 177 pounds and Vassar's class of 10 averages 154.  The freshman classes physicality difference shouldn't have much impact this year, and we all know one of the best players on the planet is a diminutive soul, but down the road it will be interesting to see if loading up on big bodies is important to d3 success. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on August 29, 2017, 03:00:26 PM
The LL site put up its men's soccer "preview" ...

http://www.libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2017/8/29/2017-liberty-league-mens-soccer-preseason-preview.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on August 29, 2017, 04:04:01 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 29, 2017, 10:12:33 AM
Most of rosters up.  A couple of observations.  First, an apparent dearth of USSDA players.  The ability of NESCAC and UAA schools, as well as other historical d3 powerhouses to grab them will detriment LL teams come dance time.  Second, comparing the classes of Vassar and SLU, last year's two dance participants, raises the age-old question does size matter (which it obviously does to Coach Tosch).  SLU brought in 11 players averaging 177 pounds and Vassar's class of 10 averages 154.  The freshman classes physicality difference shouldn't have much impact this year, and we all know one of the best players on the planet is a diminutive soul, but down the road it will be interesting to see if loading up on big bodies is important to d3 success.

Great observations, Deutschfan!  I'm not sure why more USSDA players don't choose LL schools.  Not all of the LL schools attend the USSDA showcases, but I know that at least some of the LL schools regularly get USSDA players to do campus visits.  In toe-to-toe competition for USSDA recruits between NESCAC and LL schools, NESCAC wins out most of the time.  Union's roster isn't up yet, but one of their new recruits has a MLS academy background. 

I loved your "deep dive" into SLU and Vassar biometric data.  If nothing else, SLU should be ready to pummel the Brewers into submission over the next four years!  Your analysis is an interesting complement to the point raised by Blooter regarding Coach Shapiro's prioritizing of athleticism over soccer skill in his initial recruiting efforts in the NESCAC thread.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 30, 2017, 01:41:03 PM
You have identified the conundrum for the D3 coach.  The big, fast, skilled soccer player goes D1.  The next level includes the big players who are lack speed or touch, and the players that are too small for D1, but are fast and skilled.  Over 4 years is it easier to improve the deficiencies in the big players or the smaller ones?  Obviously you can't add height and putting additional weight on smaller frames typically reduces speed and quickness.  I think most coaches will take the physical specimen because of the larger developmental upside so to speak.  Regarding the USSDA your takes are right on.  Hobart posted its roster and has a multi-year USSDA player in Kyle Mangold with international experience.  How did he wind up at Hobart?  He chose to play high school his senior year, probably much to the chagrin of his club coaches, and tore his ACL in the third game.  That was probably a deal breaker for the D1 schools.  It will be interesting to watch his career.  Sometimes you never come close to where you were after an ACL tear.  On the other hand if he fully recovers this could be a major recruiting coup for the Statesmen who are looking very formidable this year.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 31, 2017, 02:10:44 PM
Union roster lists Poom Mera, Rhode Island's Gatorade POY, as well as formerly of the New England Revolution's Academy program.  What a great get for the Union staff.  Amazing given Union's lack of recent success.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on August 31, 2017, 04:49:15 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 31, 2017, 02:10:44 PM
Union roster lists Poom Mera, Rhode Island's Gatorade POY, as well as formerly of the New England Revolution's Academy program.  What a great get for the Union staff.  Amazing given Union's lack of recent success.

He is the player I was referring to in my post on Tuesday.  It will be interesting to see how he combines with Strauss and Lopez.  He's a very skilled player who was cut by the Revs after his freshman year, but obviously experienced success in high school and club soccer thereafter.  As with many first year players, he'll likely need to bulk up a bit for the sake of resilience.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 01, 2017, 05:07:07 PM
Babson is up on SLU 2-1 at the half.  Babson is playing well but it's been a long time since I've seen a team have that much luck in a half.  Every bounce and deflection has gone their way.  2nd half should be fun.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: EasyGoer27 on September 01, 2017, 05:19:03 PM
I would agree SLU have been the better side but very competitive game.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 01, 2017, 06:20:20 PM
Quite poor performance by SLU to lose 3-2.  Not taking anything away from Babson, they played well.  There appears to be a lack of X factor on this SLU squad.  Still no offensive threat on this team. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on September 01, 2017, 08:47:29 PM
SLU missing that central Midfielder that controls the team...Provost, Demello, Bednarsky, etc
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 01, 2017, 10:06:12 PM
Quote from: Kick-grass on September 01, 2017, 08:47:29 PM
SLU missing that central Midfielder that controls the team...Provost, Demello, Bednarsky, etc

Indeed.  Really appreciating how spoiled this program has been by having players like the ones you mentioned.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 02, 2017, 12:45:43 AM
Quote from: stlawus on September 01, 2017, 06:20:20 PM
Quite poor performance by SLU to lose 3-2.  Not taking anything away from Babson, they played well.  There appears to be a lack of X factor on this SLU squad.  Still no offensive threat on this team.

Didn't see the game, but it looks like SLU dominated the stats. With that in mind, I can definitely see the perspective of the aforementioned post saying that the Beavers had all the bounces in the first half.

Babson scored 3 goals, which, for a team that has had trouble scoring in recent memory, maybe represents the turning of a corner. Then again, given their history in recent seasons, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Beavers beat SLU only to lose to Clarkson. A win over SLU is nothing to scoff at, but it was at home, where Babson has played well over the years. Next week they have two tough away tests at Tufts and Brandeis, which will I think be more comprehensive indicators of the team's potential.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 02, 2017, 02:01:19 AM
When facing Babson, Clarkson may be energized by their 3-1 victory over Wheaton, who no doubt were playing with heavy hearts.  With Calnan's hat trick, the Golden Knights may be showing signs of improved attacking prowess in Coach Taylor's fourth season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2017, 12:11:33 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on September 02, 2017, 12:45:43 AM
Quote from: stlawus on September 01, 2017, 06:20:20 PM
Quite poor performance by SLU to lose 3-2.  Not taking anything away from Babson, they played well.  There appears to be a lack of X factor on this SLU squad.  Still no offensive threat on this team.

Didn't see the game, but it looks like SLU dominated the stats. With that in mind, I can definitely see the perspective of the aforementioned post saying that the Beavers had all the bounces in the first half.

Babson scored 3 goals, which, for a team that has had trouble scoring in recent memory, maybe represents the turning of a corner. Then again, given their history in recent seasons, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Beavers beat SLU only to lose to Clarkson. A win over SLU is nothing to scoff at, but it was at home, where Babson has played well over the years. Next week they have two tough away tests at Tufts and Brandeis, which will I think be more comprehensive indicators of the team's potential.


I have to agree with that whole statement. +k....I was working so I could not catch any of the games but I would say the biggest surprise yesterday was Babson netting 3 v SLU. SLU loves to take chances so I am assuming Babson played dangerously on the counter and like Bloots said I could easily see them pulling a clunker v Clarkson. I must say if Clarkson can get out of New England at 2-0-0 that would be a huge boost for them to continue to have a great year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2017, 12:19:18 PM
I will be interested to see what Hobart is made of this year. They got snubbed last year as I thought they were an NCAA team last year. Sometimes they get off to slow sluggish starts. Let's see what they do with ECONN today at home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 02, 2017, 01:35:11 PM
Hobart has to be incredibly frustrated by last year's ending. They should have prevailed against Skidmore in regulation and then to lose in penalties. If game goes other way they have Vassar at home and they dominated Vassar away with their physicality.  Hobart is my pick this year to rise above the rest. SLU offensively impaired again having the two most overrated returning first teamers on the offensive end.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 02, 2017, 04:34:29 PM
This is going to be a long year for this SLU squad.  They've conceded 5 against Wheaton and 8 goals on the weekend.  Only the 2nd game but this program looks to be in a rebuilding phase.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2017, 04:38:35 PM
I only caught the 1st Half but SLU was all over Wheaton the first 20 minutes but looked lost in the final 3rd. Wheaton scored a couple against the run of play. 2nd Half must have been crazy with SLU pushing #'s forward all over the field.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 02, 2017, 04:41:42 PM
SLU scored all three in the span of 3 minutes.  Then they gave up a corner and a penalty.  This team has always been pretty shaky on set pieces.  Might be seeing the new 6'7" freshman keeper recruit get some action next weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2017, 04:41:58 PM
Just caught a goal as SLU scores off a set piece. Nice ball played into the box that was flicked on and finished...5-4 Wheaton with about 10 minutes left
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 02, 2017, 04:51:12 PM
Wow, belay my last.  SLU ties it up at 5.  What a crazy game.  3-0 to 5-3 to 5-5.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 02, 2017, 04:56:23 PM
Hobart loses to ECU 1:0.  The Statesmen played 20, a freshman started, they dominated both possession and shots on goal, but - alas - gave up a soft one half way through first half and Eastern Connecticut stayed organized and played smart (even as Hobart grew frustrated and fouled more and more).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2017, 04:58:10 PM
Ah yeah...While the defending in this SLU game has been non-existent, from what I have seen SLU's GK is shaky AT BEST.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 03, 2017, 06:54:34 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 02, 2017, 01:35:11 PM
Hobart has to be incredibly frustrated by last year's ending. They should have prevailed against Skidmore in regulation and then to lose in penalties. If game goes other way they have Vassar at home and they dominated Vassar away with their physicality.  Hobart is my pick this year to rise above the rest. SLU offensively impaired again having the two most overrated returning first teamers on the offensive end.

I agree that Hobart was robbed last year. Then again the only way to avoid that happening is winning the Tourney.
They were league champions for a reason though and really did well to win 6 and lose just 1 against LL competition last year.
Some of those big and unexplainable losses I think hurt them in the Tourney.

I think I am harder on SLU than most, and I think the Statesmen should feel wronged at losing that bid to a conference 5 seed last year!

I must disagree with you respectfully yet strongly on your claim about SLU's 2 returning first team All league players.

One of those players has been, in my opinion, the BEST player in the league since his freshman year.
I think most knowledgeable people who have seen him play and have played the game understands just how special of a player he is.
In just over 2 seasons he has scored 8 goals ( all game winners, or tying goals) and scoring goals is actually the worst part of his game.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 03, 2017, 07:13:55 PM
Notes after the first weekend with 6 out of 10 LL teams undefeated.  In order by LL's last year's finish: 1) Vassar--won't stop the Brewers unless you can break up the two man synergy between their returning all-region players Van Brewer and Mrlik; 2) Skidmore--Santos is still sizzling after a scorching league season last year; 3) Hobart--again needs to find a scorer after last year where no one scored more than a handful of goals; 4) RPI--could be for real but riding the Costa Rican trip bump and followed the SLU super size me recruiting model; 5) SLU--as Mr. Right noted a mess on defense and offensively will need more forward production as they re-evaluate the bigger the better recruiting model; 6) Union--lucky to get by New Paltz and will be hampered by a cup-cake preseason; 7) Clarkson--Has found a target player with Calnan and his 4 goal weekend but their late defensive breakdown against Babson is worrisome for a team whose defense kept them in many a game last year; 8) RIT--still hasn't found a way to reach its finals glory in 2011; 9) Bard--Can win with and without Shenberger, and only needs to win a few of the close games they lost last year to make the playoffs; and Newbie) Ithaca--has come to play with balanced scoring and strong defense.  None of the teams has faced a top notch opponent so it is difficult to assess how strong the league is.  Preseason Bennett Rankings has the LL ranked 11th which is probably as low as it has been since inception.  Rankings like that make it tough to compete for recruits against the UAA and NESCAC, the perennial 1 and 2.  Too bad we didn't have a first week fixture like Brandeis/Cortland or Carnegie Mellon/Kenyon.  The non-conference foes will be stronger in the upcoming weeks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 03, 2017, 07:44:40 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 03, 2017, 06:54:34 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 02, 2017, 01:35:11 PM
Hobart has to be incredibly frustrated by last year's ending. They should have prevailed against Skidmore in regulation and then to lose in penalties. If game goes other way they have Vassar at home and they dominated Vassar away with their physicality.  Hobart is my pick this year to rise above the rest. SLU offensively impaired again having the two most overrated returning first teamers on the offensive end.

I agree that Hobart was robbed last year. Then again the only way to avoid that happening is winning the Tourney.
They were league champions for a reason though and really did well to win 6 and lose just 1 against LL competition last year.
Some of those big and unexplainable losses I think hurt them in the Tourney.

I think I am harder on SLU than most, and I think the Statesmen should feel wronged at losing that bid to a conference 5 seed last year!

I must disagree with you respectfully yet strongly on your claim about SLU's 2 returning first team All league players.

One of those players has been, in my opinion, the BEST player in the league since his freshman year.
I think most knowledgeable people who have seen him play and have played the game understands just how special of a player he is.
In just over 2 seasons he has scored 8 goals ( all game winners, or tying goals) and scoring goals is actually the worst part of his game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 03, 2017, 08:03:32 PM
Oops, hit post too quickly.  Saint, I love your insights and dedication to the LL and SLU.  I agree with you about 90% of the time  Your assessment that SLU's freshman of the year for 2015 has been the best player in the league for the past two seasons is the epitome of overrating.  The best two players in the league the past two years were defenders, Copeland and Oyeniyi, both who received All-American recognition, and rightly so, even though they had ignominious exits from D3 soccer with Copeland getting a late red against Haverford in the NCAAs and Oyeniyi committing the late foul in the box that gave Vassar the league title last year.  The best midfielder in the league in 2016 did not only generate a single assist with no goals in 8 league games and then get shutout in the NCAAs.  Dede wasn't even the best mid-fielder on his team based on his coach and other NSCAA coaches naming another SLU midfielder All-Region.  The second, third, and fourth best players in the league last year were a midfielder and forward for Vassar, and an RPI forward who won player of the year.  Brandell was actually the best player on SLU last year and he was nowhere close to being the best player in the league.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 03, 2017, 08:28:01 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 03, 2017, 08:03:32 PM
Oops, hit post too quickly.  Saint, I love your insights and dedication to the LL and SLU.  I agree with you about 90% of the time  Your assessment that SLU's freshman of the year for 2015 has been the best player in the league for the past two seasons is the epitome of overrating.  The best two players in the league the past two years were defenders, Copeland and Oyeniyi, both who received All-American recognition, and rightly so, even though they had ignominious exits from D3 soccer with Copeland getting a late red against Haverford in the NCAAs and Oyeniyi committing the late foul in the box that gave Vassar the league title last year.  The best midfielder in the league in 2016 did not only generate a single assist with no goals in 8 league games and then get shutout in the NCAAs.  Dede wasn't even the best mid-fielder on his team based on his coach and other NSCAA coaches naming another SLU midfielder All-Region.  The second, third, and fourth best players in the league last year were a midfielder and forward for Vassar, and an RPI forward who won player of the year.  Brandell was actually the best player on SLU last year and he was nowhere close to being the best player in the league.   

Ha.
I love arguing soccer with  people like yourself who are knowledgeable.
I recall back in 2002-3 I had a hours long conversation with a fellow Saint whether Ronaldinho or Zidane was the better player.
Oyeniyi was a stud and deserved all-American.

I love big Harry Copeland, a great Saint.
he was a new model  Laird who was Brilliant and in this current crop Dorney is cut from a similar fabric as well.
Unknown to many Durocher has a cloning machine hidden in his office  ;)


We can agree to disagree on this one.
The beautiful thing is that we have a year or two of pitch performance to possibly reassess our original analysis.

As for All-American accolades, I never judge players based on what all star teams they make, unlike yeas past, most games are online and we can make our judgment based on the eye test. The only real way to do it fairly.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 06, 2017, 03:09:17 PM
Pretty decisive win for Skidmore v Plattsburgh St 3-0 yesterday. That game is usually a defensive toss-up but looks like Okoye netted 2. Okoye and Santos will have to carry them all season and hope neither gets injured.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 06, 2017, 09:03:31 PM
Vassar and Bard fall from the ranks of the unbeaten ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 08, 2017, 03:17:44 PM
RPI over Rhode Island College 3-2 with a late PK to seal the match.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 08, 2017, 04:12:05 PM
And the nightmare start to the SLU season continues.  Giving away another awful penalty in the opening 10 minutes against Oneonta.  Defending on this team is non-existent.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 08, 2017, 04:47:26 PM
Outside of that awful penalty I would actually say SLU had the upper hand in the first half.  Should have put at least one away.  Oneonta is outplaying them where it matters though, the scoreboard.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 08, 2017, 05:07:55 PM
Coach Tosh sums up my feelings about this ref perfectly: "You're having a nightmare".  I don't like to complain about officiating too much but this guy is missing obvious calls.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 08, 2017, 05:31:15 PM
And that should do it.  Oneonta goes up 2-0 on a set piece.  This is what happens when you have no final third product and squander chance after chance.  Can't remember the last time it took 2 weekends for this program to get its first win. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2017, 08:09:39 AM
Quote from: stlawus on September 08, 2017, 05:31:15 PM
And that should do it.  Oneonta goes up 2-0 on a set piece.  This is what happens when you have no final third product and squander chance after chance.  Can't remember the last time it took 2 weekends for this program to get its first win.

Have they switched GK's yet? How about the backline? You would know better than I but MOST coaches would start to tap on the panic button and move players around. Absolutely making sure your most athletic / skilled / tough players were in the spine. I only saw the Wheaton game but the GK'ing in that game was not good. The defending certainly did not help either as I thought it was non-existent in that game. i will say they dominated Wheaton the first 20 minutes of that game but could not finish. They obviously put 5 away so they were finishing in that game but Wheaton's defense was just as horrid in that game. I assume you played for Durocher? What would he do?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 09, 2017, 03:53:42 PM
No changes made in SLU's lineup in today's game against Rhode Island.  Comfortable 4-0 win.  The chances they had the capitalized on.  RIC is no Oneonta, but it was nice to see them get their first win at least.  Dorney the big CB got in on the action much like his predecessor Copeland used to do.  Another tough road weekend next week against Oswego and Cortland.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 09, 2017, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 09, 2017, 08:09:39 AM
Quote from: stlawus on September 08, 2017, 05:31:15 PM
And that should do it.  Oneonta goes up 2-0 on a set piece.  This is what happens when you have no final third product and squander chance after chance.  Can't remember the last time it took 2 weekends for this program to get its first win.

Have they switched GK's yet? How about the backline? You would know better than I but MOST coaches would start to tap on the panic button and move players around. Absolutely making sure your most athletic / skilled / tough players were in the spine. I only saw the Wheaton game but the GK'ing in that game was not good. The defending certainly did not help either as I thought it was non-existent in that game. i will say they dominated Wheaton the first 20 minutes of that game but could not finish. They obviously put 5 away so they were finishing in that game but Wheaton's defense was just as horrid in that game. I assume you played for Durocher? What would he do?

Panic may just have been averter Mr. Right, but not in my opinion.
You make some great points there.
Having played, I wont ever say any player should be switched out, but I will say, players should get a chance to grab an opportunity if the guys infront of them are not performing as they should.

What would Durocher do?

I think that Durocher would have this group making a deep run in the NCAA with the talent on the team.
Coach Tosh may still be able to do that as well.

What Durocher did better than any coach I ever had was that he always made sure each and every player on the team knew their role on the team. His secret was that he knew each of his players really well even on a personal level.

Besides a few of the boyz, I'm not convinced each player on the Saints know their role inside out at this point...

I still have faith in Tosh, he is a great Coach, he knows more than anyone the type of pressure that comes from Coaching SLU and I am sure he went in with eyes wide open.

The team has to start playing better.
If I am not mistaken, they have outshot all 4 opponents despite having a losing record.
Someone must step up to be the consistent scorer the team needs.
Back to back wins next week and the season looks a whole lot different.

For stretches of the game yesterday, I actually thought the boys dominated Oneonta, but they were dominated on the scoreboard where it counts. Finding a scoring threat (Hope you see this #9, #14, #22) will help solve that problem.

Finally the team must tighten up in the back.
Giving up 3 goals or more each in the first 3 games just wont cut it.
Normally at SLU, players who don't play defense don't play.
Team gave up 4 goals total  in 2000 and 2011 for the entire season and gave up 5 to Wheaton last weekend.

Apologies for the rant from a has been, but improvement is needed and it falls on the shoulders of the team to give 100% and represent the crest.

These 4 years go faster than you think.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 09, 2017, 04:03:58 PM
I agree about yesterday's game.  I actually thought they outplayed Oneonta for the most part.  Oneonta is a possession team like SLU, but SLU took them out of that element and had them playing the counter more than Byrne would have liked.  They missed a few point blank goals and had lapses on set pieces.  Oneonta just put away the chances they had.  The talent is there, as seen by yesterday's numerous chances against a great team.  I think Tosh is still trying to find his sea legs. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2017, 05:02:18 PM
RPI up 1-0 over Oneonta at the Half. I am going to guess RPI has 1 shot and 1 goal and Oneonta is all over them but cannot finish. Adam Clinton and RPI have for years found ways to get results against better teams. We will see if they can hold on to the victory or even a draw would really look nice come November. RPI will face off against Williams on Wednesday night at home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2017, 05:13:32 PM
Right on cue...Oneonta ties it up 1-1 55th minute....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 11, 2017, 06:58:08 PM
Notes on the scorecard after second week where no Liberty League team has yet to win a statement game (in order of last year's finish): 1) Vassar--teams have learned to double Mrlik and let the rest of the team beat them, in two games the other Vassar X could not; 2) Skidmore--for second year in a row probably has the best player in the league (sorry Saint but I did note that your vote for best player received honor roll recognition for a meaningless assist in a blowout win after a 3-0 beat down); 3) Hobart--most likely the best team in the country without a win after outplaying Brandeis in a loss even at a man down and tying Rochester; 4) RPI--Mr. Right was right, managed to get a goal against run of play against Oneonta but was outclassed with no real dangerous player; 5) SLU--still needs help on both ends despite leading the league in goals scored; 6) Union--could Mr. Right use his magic and calculate an expected strength of schedule?; 7) Clarkson--its long absence from the playoffs is soon to be over; 8) RIT--still vacillates between mediocre and weak; 9) Bard--trouncing by very average Mt. St. Mary's team is indicative of another year looking in from the outside; and Newbie) Ithaca--was impressed by their defense and rate of play in the Brockport game reminding me of the last NYU team that won the UAA based on the strength of its defense and giving fair warning to the league that they are here to play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 11, 2017, 09:35:50 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 11, 2017, 06:58:08 PM
Notes on the scorecard after second week where no Liberty League team has yet to win a statement game (in order of last year's finish): 1) Vassar--teams have learned to double Mrlik and let the rest of the team beat them, in two games the other Vassar X could not; 2) Skidmore--for second year in a row probably has the best player in the league (sorry Saint but I did note that your vote for best player received honor roll recognition for a meaningless assist in a blowout win after a 3-0 beat down); 3) Hobart--most likely the best team in the country without a win after outplaying Brandeis in a loss even at a man down and tying Rochester; 4) RPI--Mr. Right was right, managed to get a goal against run of play against Oneonta but was outclassed with no real dangerous player; 5) SLU--still needs help on both ends despite leading the league in goals scored; 6) Union--could Mr. Right use his magic and calculate an expected strength of schedule?; 7) Clarkson--its long absence from the playoffs is soon to be over; 8) RIT--still vacillates between mediocre and weak; 9) Bard--trouncing by very average Mt. St. Mary's team is indicative of another year looking in from the outside; and Newbie) Ithaca--was impressed by their defense and rate of play in the Brockport game reminding me of the last NYU team that won the UAA based on the strength of its defense and giving fair warning to the league that they are here to play.

Great analysis.
I think Saints lead the league in goals given up as well.
This week will tell us a lot about all the teams.

I agree that Hobart is very strong, a good tie against UofR is a sign of things to come.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 11, 2017, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 09, 2017, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 09, 2017, 08:09:39 AM
Quote from: stlawus on September 08, 2017, 05:31:15 PM
And that should do it.  Oneonta goes up 2-0 on a set piece.  This is what happens when you have no final third product and squander chance after chance.  Can't remember the last time it took 2 weekends for this program to get its first win.

Have they switched GK's yet? How about the backline? You would know better than I but MOST coaches would start to tap on the panic button and move players around. Absolutely making sure your most athletic / skilled / tough players were in the spine. I only saw the Wheaton game but the GK'ing in that game was not good. The defending certainly did not help either as I thought it was non-existent in that game. i will say they dominated Wheaton the first 20 minutes of that game but could not finish. They obviously put 5 away so they were finishing in that game but Wheaton's defense was just as horrid in that game. I assume you played for Durocher? What would he do?

Panic may just have been averter Mr. Right, but not in my opinion.
You make some great points there.
Having played, I wont ever say any player should be switched out, but I will say, players should get a chance to grab an opportunity if the guys infront of them are not performing as they should.

What would Durocher do?

I think that Durocher would have this group making a deep run in the NCAA with the talent on the team.
Coach Tosh may still be able to do that as well.

What Durocher did better than any coach I ever had was that he always made sure each and every player on the team knew their role on the team. His secret was that he knew each of his players really well even on a personal level.

Besides a few of the boyz, I'm not convinced each player on the Saints know their role inside out at this point...

I still have faith in Tosh, he is a great Coach, he knows more than anyone the type of pressure that comes from Coaching SLU and I am sure he went in with eyes wide open.

The team has to start playing better.
If I am not mistaken, they have outshot all 4 opponents despite having a losing record.
Someone must step up to be the consistent scorer the team needs.
Back to back wins next week and the season looks a whole lot different.

For stretches of the game yesterday, I actually thought the boys dominated Oneonta, but they were dominated on the scoreboard where it counts. Finding a scoring threat (Hope you see this #9, #14, #22) will help solve that problem.

Finally the team must tighten up in the back.
Giving up 3 goals or more each in the first 3 games just wont cut it.
Normally at SLU, players who don't play defense don't play.
Team gave up 4 goals total  in 2000 and 2011 for the entire season and gave up 5 to Wheaton last weekend.

Apologies for the rant from a has been, but improvement is needed and it falls on the shoulders of the team to give 100% and represent the crest.

These 4 years go faster than you think.


Interesting response Saint of Old...usually you are very measured, optimistic and positive even in the worst of situations(i.e SLU losing at home to Amherst in the 2014 NCAA 2nd Round and all the shenanigans with the Amherst bench etc in that game). I gathered from your response that you feel some of the players and coaches are not on the same page. While I am not only intrigued by your response including stating that Durocher would have had this talented SLU side whipped into shape, which is either a confirmation of how good a coach Durocher was or a definite slight on the current coach or BOTH but am more curious to know WHY you feel that the players do not know their roles on this side or more matter of factly how do you know this?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 11, 2017, 10:47:40 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 11, 2017, 06:58:08 PM
Notes on the scorecard after second week where no Liberty League team has yet to win a statement game (in order of last year's finish): 1) Vassar--teams have learned to double Mrlik and let the rest of the team beat them, in two games the other Vassar X could not; 2) Skidmore--for second year in a row probably has the best player in the league (sorry Saint but I did note that your vote for best player received honor roll recognition for a meaningless assist in a blowout win after a 3-0 beat down); 3) Hobart--most likely the best team in the country without a win after outplaying Brandeis in a loss even at a man down and tying Rochester; 4) RPI--Mr. Right was right, managed to get a goal against run of play against Oneonta but was outclassed with no real dangerous player; 5) SLU--still needs help on both ends despite leading the league in goals scored; 6) Union--could Mr. Right use his magic and calculate an expected strength of schedule?; 7) Clarkson--its long absence from the playoffs is soon to be over; 8) RIT--still vacillates between mediocre and weak; 9) Bard--trouncing by very average Mt. St. Mary's team is indicative of another year looking in from the outside; and Newbie) Ithaca--was impressed by their defense and rate of play in the Brockport game reminding me of the last NYU team that won the UAA based on the strength of its defense and giving fair warning to the league that they are here to play.


Yea RPI and Hobart have each been such an enigma in totally different ways. Somehow someway RPI continues to have successful season after successful season without the likes of a superior player that can take over a game. Just 11 guys working hard every game. I will say they might have some of the best luck in D3 as I have never seen a team the past few years get as many results as they do against better competition with 2-3 SOG. On the flip, I have never seen a team underachieve year after year like Hobart does especially out of conference. I know Shaun Griffin is a fantastic coach and has been for years BUT for some reason his Hobart teams just do not get results when they need them. They either come out flat or sometimes I feel they are not ready to play and are not focused for 90 minutes. In fact they remind me a ton of Pilger's sides at Trinity. Talent is there but they could be so much more if the focus was also there. In fact, Hobart has such an advantage in admissions over most LL teams and has such a great campus and school that they SHOULD be a Top 20 team consistently in D3 IMHO.

I have been a big fan of Skidmore's the past couple years ever since Ron McEachen starting recruiting some Jamaicans to Skidmore and playing some dynamic futbol but also being very disciplined defensively like his teams at Univ of Vermont used to be. Unfortunately for him he was forced to retire because I think he could have gotten even more out of these teams than they have. Still they have played well the past few years and the current coach is a big part of this but the next step is the NCAA's and I am not sure this team has the depth to get there. We will see.

On the Flip, I have never enjoyed watching Vassar play under Jennings but you cannot argue with his results. While we all poke fun at Guinn at Union for his ridiculous scheduling it does his team no favors when league play starts. He has a good young team this year and will get some results for sure.

Wide open year and will be fun to watch the LL this year especially with the expanded playoffs and i love starting my weekend off with the Friday afternoon first half of the back to back's.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 12, 2017, 08:23:34 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 11, 2017, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 09, 2017, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 09, 2017, 08:09:39 AM
Quote from: stlawus on September 08, 2017, 05:31:15 PM
And that should do it.  Oneonta goes up 2-0 on a set piece.  This is what happens when you have no final third product and squander chance after chance.  Can't remember the last time it took 2 weekends for this program to get its first win.

Have they switched GK's yet? How about the backline? You would know better than I but MOST coaches would start to tap on the panic button and move players around. Absolutely making sure your most athletic / skilled / tough players were in the spine. I only saw the Wheaton game but the GK'ing in that game was not good. The defending certainly did not help either as I thought it was non-existent in that game. i will say they dominated Wheaton the first 20 minutes of that game but could not finish. They obviously put 5 away so they were finishing in that game but Wheaton's defense was just as horrid in that game. I assume you played for Durocher? What would he do?

Panic may just have been averter Mr. Right, but not in my opinion.
You make some great points there.
Having played, I wont ever say any player should be switched out, but I will say, players should get a chance to grab an opportunity if the guys infront of them are not performing as they should.

What would Durocher do?

I think that Durocher would have this group making a deep run in the NCAA with the talent on the team.
Coach Tosh may still be able to do that as well.

What Durocher did better than any coach I ever had was that he always made sure each and every player on the team knew their role on the team. His secret was that he knew each of his players really well even on a personal level.

Besides a few of the boyz, I'm not convinced each player on the Saints know their role inside out at this point...

I still have faith in Tosh, he is a great Coach, he knows more than anyone the type of pressure that comes from Coaching SLU and I am sure he went in with eyes wide open.

The team has to start playing better.
If I am not mistaken, they have outshot all 4 opponents despite having a losing record.
Someone must step up to be the consistent scorer the team needs.
Back to back wins next week and the season looks a whole lot different.

For stretches of the game yesterday, I actually thought the boys dominated Oneonta, but they were dominated on the scoreboard where it counts. Finding a scoring threat (Hope you see this #9, #14, #22) will help solve that problem.

Finally the team must tighten up in the back.
Giving up 3 goals or more each in the first 3 games just wont cut it.
Normally at SLU, players who don't play defense don't play.
Team gave up 4 goals total  in 2000 and 2011 for the entire season and gave up 5 to Wheaton last weekend.

Apologies for the rant from a has been, but improvement is needed and it falls on the shoulders of the team to give 100% and represent the crest.

These 4 years go faster than you think.


Interesting response Saint of Old...usually you are very measured, optimistic and positive even in the worst of situations(i.e SLU losing at home to Amherst in the 2014 NCAA 2nd Round and all the shenanigans with the Amherst bench etc in that game). I gathered from your response that you feel some of the players and coaches are not on the same page. While I am not only intrigued by your response including stating that Durocher would have had this talented SLU side whipped into shape, which is either a confirmation of how good a coach Durocher was or a definite slight on the current coach or BOTH but am more curious to know WHY you feel that the players do not know their roles on this side or more matter of factly how do you know this?

In fairness, I think that after many players on various teams wont know their role after the first two weekends of the year. What I say has to be taken with a grain of salt as coming from an old Saint who thinks the boyz should be playing better. Like I said, I think Tosh is a great Coach. He has had the boyz in the dance his first two years at the helm. Also, this man was partly responsible for the rise of the program from the mid 90s. Coach Durocher had 4 losing seasons in the beginning before he found consistent success.
I think its the players have to step up and play the way they know they can.
I have taken a bit of brotherly flack on these boards for how highly I think of some of these players, but there is no disappointment without expectation, and I respect these players a lot and think they should and will turn it around.
Finally, I don't have ANY inside knowledge or sources, just a has been who dedicates wayyyyy too much of my time to a program I love.
There are a few of us out there which is what makes this site and board so much fun to be involved it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 12, 2017, 09:51:59 AM
Its brotherly flack and brotherly love.  I want to get back to Mr. Right's Hobart assessment.  I agree that they have an excellent coach and are in a situation where they should be able to recruit.  The women's team seems to perennially compete for the national championship.  I have always been curious as to the reason why at some schools the women's program dominates the men in success when you would think the school would be equally attractive to both genders.  While it could be argued that it is due to a difference in strength of coaches between the men's and women's program at Hobart I don't believe that's the case.  Another example is Wash U where the women's team is always in the national mix and Joe Clarke on the men's side is a very capable and experienced coach.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 12, 2017, 12:32:00 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 12, 2017, 09:51:59 AM
Its brotherly flack and brotherly love.  I want to get back to Mr. Right's Hobart assessment.  I agree that they have an excellent coach and are in a situation where they should be able to recruit.  The women's team seems to perennially compete for the national championship.  I have always been curious as to the reason why at some schools the women's program dominates the men in success when you would think the school would be equally attractive to both genders.  While it could be argued that it is due to a difference in strength of coaches between the men's and women's program at Hobart I don't believe that's the case.  Another example is Wash U where the women's team is always in the national mix and Joe Clarke on the men's side is a very capable and experienced coach.

Bit of a homer bias on Hobart, having watched closely and not so closely over the years.  My sense is that part of the underperformance in early season is due to too much detail too soon: Too many plans and ideas.  Shaun is a great recruiter and so he has many capable players. This leads to problems with playing time and clarity of roles. Combining together tactical complexity, fighting for minutes, and concerns about role leads to some curiously flat games, odd mistakes, and early season struggles.  This is also why Hobart comes on so strong towards the mid-season, why they often prevail in the many OT games they play, and why the other team seems so excited if they can find a way to win.

Deutschfan wryly (and I think rightly) observed that Hobart may be the best no-wins-yet team in the country (and certainly in the league). The early season losses to an organized Eastern Connecticut (and a soft goal), the unfortunate loss to Brandeis (who were outplayed by a 10 man Hobart), and the Rochester tie (sigh) puts lots of pressure on Hobart to win the league in order to dance.  They could not pull off threading that needle's eye last year. Hobart is a better squad this year.  Still, it is not even mid-September and my read is that they will have to try to do so again this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 12, 2017, 02:34:15 PM
Union has appeared at No. 23 in the national poll, with RPI also receiving votes.

http://unitedsoccercoaches.org/web/Rankings/College_Rankings/NCAA_DIII_MEN/web/rankings/ncaa/diii_men.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 12, 2017, 04:39:53 PM
Thanks d3.  Saw that.  The Union ranking is way off base.  Union could win all of its preseason games and still be untested.  If Union is 23, Hobart without a win should be in the top 15, and Vassar, who wupped West Conn 4-0 compared Union's 1-0 squeaker, should be in the top 10.  Both are ridiculous notions as is Union's ranking.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 12, 2017, 06:46:43 PM
Deutschfan seems to have a logical, reasonable informed opinion about the poll and where the Liberty League teams should stand in truth. So how can the voters be so far off? It's ridiculous. Clearly someone voting is familiar with the LL, right? How hard is it to look at common opponents and SOS? This is meant in no way to disparage Union - but to disparage the voters. Do a little homework. It would take 5 minutes this early in the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 13, 2017, 10:57:09 PM
It was a mid-week night of mixed results for LL teams.  RIT routed Elmira 3-0 (from the stats, it looks like it could have been a lot worse), RPI fell 1-0 to Williams (it was weird not to streaming or live stats available for this game), Ithaca lost at home 3-2 to Hamilton (shots were as even as the score), and Vassar came from 2 goals down to prevail 3-2 at New Paltz.  Skidmore visits Union to kick off league play Friday night.  It will be interesting to see how Skidmore's dynamic duo up top fares against the undefeated Dutchmen and, perhaps of greater importance for Skidmore's long-term success, how well the new GK and Oyeniyi-less back line does against Union's attack.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 14, 2017, 12:51:31 AM
The Williams at RPI game was streamed live, sometimes this site will not show the availability of the stream but if you go to the Home teams website you can find it.  You did not miss much I promise you as Williams at RPI was an uneventful affair. I will comment on the Williams side on the Nescac thread but my observations of RPI have changed a bit after watching them for the full 90. 

I had to remind myself that for the most part this RPI side is pretty young. As usual, they worked very hard all game. Williams got the only goal of the game on a completely fluke play that the RPI GK made a mess of. What was supposed to be a cross from the flank was miss hit and ended up as a looping shot on goal in which the RPI GK was way out of position for and somehow(do not ask me how) the ball ended up in the back of the net. Just a bizarre play that that the GK completely mucked up and will have to put the loss on his own shoulders. As far as my observations on RPI, they were unusually disorganized in the back for parts of the game that ended up costing them. RPI's back 4 were not communicating with each other very well all game. Bad giveaways by the wingbacks and no vocal leader at CB to help. Their back 4 are not the most physically imposing and while somewhat technical and fast they were just 1 step to slow in moving the ball around. To their credit, Adam Clinton still tries to play futbal whenever possible as all players are looking for feet but they need to do it faster. Maybe it will take them a month or so to gel and crisply move the ball. Their striker up top was fast and skilled but not a player that could take over a game and he does not have much to work with behind him when going forward. I have to look at the stats but i do not remember even a handful of SOG for RPI. 2nd Half they did have about 3-4 good opportunities from set pieces coming from bad Williams fouls in their offensive 3rd but they are not a threat in the air. The big advantage RPI had was using the crazy bounces the ball takes off that crappy turf. They just couldn't get a foot on any to finish them off, By all means, Williams was not that much better but did enough to win. Their loss of Tommy Young for the year is going to really hurt them. RPI will battle all year and get some wins in the LL here and there but they will be fighting for 5th /6th place IMO. Teams can and will be scoring goals against them and I doubt they will be able to out score opponents. This is not an NCAA team this year. Not sure if they have any injuries but they have no significant depth off the bench.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 14, 2017, 01:46:49 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 14, 2017, 12:51:31 AM
The Williams at RPI game was streamed live, sometimes this site will not show the availability of the stream but if you go to the Home teams website you can find it.  You did not miss much I promise you as Williams at RPI was an uneventful affair.

I'll look more carefully next time (I did spot some updates on the crawl of the RPI site, but in my haste somehow missed the stream and the live stats).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 14, 2017, 05:29:24 AM
Had no clue the Ithaca coach who took over for Byrne left after only 2 seasons to get into the New England Revolution's system as a staff coach,  NOT SURE about that decision but he will be coaching the U-23's and I think the U-15's. So the Ithaca job opened up quickly in May that was filled just as quick with former Norwich coach and Midd Alum Kyle Dezotel. He was at Norwich for about 10 years before leaving for Manahttanville College. I thought he would of been the natural choice to replace Saward at Midd but I guess not. He has Ithaca playing well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 14, 2017, 05:46:17 PM
I was rooting for Ithaca in its game against Hamilton as I root for a LL team every time it plays against a NESCAC team.  Unfortunately for 2017 it is NESCAC 2, LL 0, and no LL team has a statement game win yet.  Hope that changes this weekend.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 14, 2017, 07:40:21 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 14, 2017, 05:46:17 PM
I was rooting for Ithaca in its game against Hamilton as I root for a LL team every time it plays against a NESCAC team.  Unfortunately for 2017 it is NESCAC 2, LL 0, and no LL team has a statement game win yet.  Hope that changes this weekend.   

It is noteworthy that both of the NESCAC wins you alluded to were on the road.  Opportunities for signature wins by LL teams are RIT v Rochester, St. Lawrence v Cortland, and Vassar v Oneonta on Saturday (and possibly Vassar v Wesleyan next Tuesday).  After that, probably the last opportunity for a LL team to garner a signature win against an out-of-conference foe is September 27th when Skidmore plays Williams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 15, 2017, 08:24:48 AM
Hobart gets a W with a 1:0 win at Potsdam.  Potsdam could have evened it with a nice header in 60th minute that simply missed.  Other than that zone-marking lapse on a corner ... Hobart seemed comfortable.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on September 15, 2017, 08:30:25 AM
I watched the 2nd half and didn't think Hobart looked that good.  I'm not sure they ever strung together more than 3 passes. Luckily for them, Potsdam didn't look much better.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 15, 2017, 12:46:42 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on September 15, 2017, 08:30:25 AM
I watched the 2nd half and didn't think Hobart looked that good.  I'm not sure they ever strung together more than 3 passes. Luckily for them, Potsdam didn't look much better.

My analysis might be biased :) 

Potsdam certainly was very active in second half and that disrupted flow. The extensive subbing by Hobart (they played 24 players and never subbed any of the back five), made it that much harder to play fluidly.  Pretty sure the Hobart GK never had to make a stop (repeating that the missed header would have changed the game), even though he had 20+ GK's and a bunch of punts.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2017, 01:09:19 PM
I don't find you biased at all Part Bart.
Infact your analysis is spot on in my view.

I would  go as far as saying Hobart might be the best 1 win team in the country.
They have always been a competitive team and at times unlucky not to advance and make a November run.

I think most of us on here try to keep our passion for our team to a minimal (as much as can be done consciously).

It is a very difficult thing to be totally objective when discussing the home team.
We might subconsciously see things we want to see, but on the other hand, I think when you love your club/school/team so much we also tend to be harder on them than the average fan would be so it evens out.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2017, 04:19:41 PM
Wow!  An Oswego red card at 15' against the GK should make the Saints' afternoon go more smoothly than anticipated, up a man and facing the backup GK.  A PK following the RC foul has the Saints up 1-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2017, 04:23:09 PM
Nothing is a given yet though...
Saints are still on the road and u against a good team.

A possession team should be able to take advantage of playing a man up though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2017, 04:32:11 PM
College substitution rules make an early red card potentially less devastating than it would be in other settings, but fatigue is still likely to be a factor against a team than can move the ball as well as SLU does.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2017, 04:44:27 PM
But if SLU was a man up, why keep playing a freshman that is on a yellow?
I don't understand it?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2017, 04:46:48 PM
Inexplicable.  10v10 after a SLU red card.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2017, 05:31:07 PM
The Saints go up 2-0 on a McNamee goal.  The audio stream is about 1 minute behind Live Stats.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2017, 05:31:49 PM
Needed that.
2-0 SLU.

Still need to get one more and be ready for the big one tomm.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2017, 05:32:30 PM
Is everyone else's video stream not working?  Or is it just me?  Currently using the radio broadcast which is decent but still no video. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2017, 06:06:50 PM
Nice wins for Saints.  Huge test tomorrow.  Still early in the season but tomorrow should tell us where this Squad will stand for the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 15, 2017, 08:53:56 PM
Wow. Down 1-0 and playing with 10 men, Union ties up Skidmore. Extra time ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2017, 09:16:04 PM
It looks like Skidmore just prevailed in 2OT on an Okoye goal.  What's with the 15' first OT period?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 15, 2017, 09:16:13 PM
Okoye dagger in second OT - Skid 2, Union 1 F
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 16, 2017, 02:04:26 PM
Very even game between Vassar and Oneonta. Video of overtime about to start.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 16, 2017, 07:35:02 PM
In another pitential statement game Cortland, sensing this may be a down year for the Saints, in sn amazing demonstration of sportsmanship gives the ball to a SLU forward inside the 18 and a 1 goal lead. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2017, 07:38:35 PM
Defender just completely whiffed on that.  Nice to see McNamee put home the rebound.  He's stepping up at CF, that's his 5th goal.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 16, 2017, 07:35:02 PM
In another pitential statement game Cortland, sensing this may be a down year for the Saints, in sn amazing demonstration of sportsmanship gives the ball to a SLU forward inside the 18 and a 1 goal lead.

Cortland ST bringing back memories of video from 2007 as it is unwatchable..Maybe im spoiled but cannot enjoy a game with that stream.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2017, 07:41:20 PM
Aaand as soon as I comment they give away yet ANOTHER penalty. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 16, 2017, 07:43:18 PM
Bad call on that penalty.
Bad call.
That was not a penalty.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2017, 07:44:09 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 16, 2017, 07:43:18 PM
Bad call on that penalty.
Bad call.
That was not a penalty.

It does seem like this team has had some down right awful luck to start this season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 07:48:40 PM
Ok now the stream looks better. What's the score? 1-1 ?

This would be a big W for SLU
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 16, 2017, 07:55:42 PM
Quote from: stlawus on September 16, 2017, 07:38:35 PM
Defender just completely whiffed on that.  Nice to see McNamee put home the rebound.  He's stepping up at CF, that's his 5th goal.
Already has as many goals as last years top scorer (Tapshack  with 5).

The boys have to pick it up on offense for 2nd half.
Giving Cortland wayyy too much respect.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 08:15:29 PM
Cortland scores to start 2nd Half off a corner. I am glad SLU is playing to feet but with Cortland pressing they need to play faster. SLU falling apart here..3-1 Cortland now..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2017, 08:38:19 PM
I thought SLU might be able to turn things around with this game, but they took another step back.  Awful passing, no sense of urgency, terrible defending and no grit to win 50/50 balls.  They have still yet to play a home game so I think that definitely should be considered, but this is still some down right terrible play from them.  Can't remember the last time this team has been all but eliminated from pool C consideration before they've played a league game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 16, 2017, 08:51:15 PM
Quote from: stlawus on September 16, 2017, 07:38:35 PM
Defender just completely whiffed on that.  Nice to see McNamee put home the rebound.  He's stepping up at CF, that's his 5th goal.

Adding to the fun, the one guy who is scoring gets a red.
More discipline needed.

Tough to watch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 08:55:37 PM
WOW.....Craziness...Is SLU able to play a tad more conservatively?  I know it is not in their DNA but they have not conceded this many goals to start a season since probably Goodwin was coaching
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 08:56:49 PM
You have to play to your strengths and weaknesses
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2017, 08:59:16 PM
Toshack rarely switches things up so I won't hold my breath.  I'm not a an of this 3 in the back formation.  Really seeing how good of a recruiter Durocher was.  He was always able to get at least 1 or 2 great defenders every year.  I still think Tosh is capable of righting the ship, but the team needs 4 at the back in my opinion.   Again, I think that playing 6 straight road games to start the season takes a toll, but this is just baffling. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 16, 2017, 09:12:00 PM
I agree with your assessment of the brutal scheduling, stlawus.  Tonight's result, in particular, can be chalked up to scheduling.  It's tough enough to play a team of Cortland's caliber on the road, but to do so on the second game of a back-to-back when the home team is fresh is an especially tall order.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 10:20:55 PM
That's what I am saying. I mean right the ship for a few games change it up then if you must play 3 at the back you can switch back. Personally, I would sit with a solid 6 THEN allow the other 4 any freedoms they want in attack mode. They could interchange and have no responsibilities defensively. Basically. a 4-2-3-1 but since SLU's DNA is to attack you give the wingbacks in my 6 to go and overlap but they must be my smartest and fastest players so they can decipher when to go and when to stay. You would confuse defenses and give yourself advantages especially on the counter. Also, I would give the 4 that are my attackers no defensive responsibilities BUT force them to press like mad to create plenty of giveaway's. Cortland was successful tonight doing just that because they knew SLU would not change and keep forcing diagonal balls out of the back and were a step slow moving it around. When it works SLU looks like magic but when it doesn't common opponents press them like mad and have counter after counter and you are leaving your GK out to dry. IDK I only caught the 2nd Half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 11:22:51 PM
Quote from: stlawus on September 16, 2017, 08:59:16 PM
Really seeing how good of a recruiter Durocher was. 


+k....this is the best point of the night. Durocher had an eye on who would fit his system better than anyone. He would go out and find the right players for what he was trying to do. Sometimes when you are a new Head Coach you make mistakes on players more than you would like.  However, it takes time and it sounds like he did a ton of the recruiting for years under Durocher. So idk.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 18, 2017, 08:13:10 PM
Notes on a scorecard week three. Still no statement wins for ten teams. By LL standings order: 1) Skidmore--it is the league v. Okoye; 2) Vassar--Oneonta result the best in the league to date; 3) Hobart--great defense in two wins and will score goals by committee; 4) RPI--another team that will score by committee making keeper errors like against Wwilliams that much more painful; 5) SLU--still a mess longing for the ghost of Sam Mello or some other great central midfielder from years past; 6) Clarkson--Chris has to be worried about the back and with good reason; 7) RIT--humbling loss to UR reinforces their status as a bottom third team; 8) Bard--trouble scoring means real trouble for a team whose offense kept them in League games the last couple years; 9) Ithaca---outplays excellent Hamilton team everywhere but in final score which bodes well for their playoff chances; and 10) Union--Okoye shows that the emperor has no clothes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 19, 2017, 03:02:47 PM
Totally agree with all points made.
Hobart seems to be rounding the corner and Vassar did the LL proud by holding Oneonta at home.
I think this year will be the most unpredictable in the last 10 years of the LL.
This is even moreso with the addition of two playoff teams.

Here is how I see it wrapping up:

6. Union gets in this year. First they hardly ever finish below this position and the program really needs a post season run.
5. RPI will get in. Since when do they not and Coach Clinton has them playing hard as usual.
4. Skidmore.Just a feeling about them dropping a couple games they should not.
3. SLU. Will have to win atleast a game on the road to get a
2. Hobart. Unfortunately for everyone else , I think Hobart have already experienced their early season slump and will be a favorite to add a tournament crown to last yeas league title.
1. Defending Champs will be tough to beat, but I still don't see them repeating unless they have home field throughout.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 19, 2017, 04:54:30 PM
Great picks Saint.  My only dissent is that I believe Ithaca is going to get in and break one of those other teams' hearts.  It is 2011 all over again, not because the Saints will be ranked Number 1 at the end of the regular season, or because Vassar as the lowest seed will knock off Number 1, rather because the newcomer, Ithaca, will pull a RIT and make a run in the playoffs.  I totally agree that by playoff time Hobart will be the team to beat.  I also agree that Skidmore is going to take some knocks.  Okoye may have as productive a season as Sebastian Janssen did for Union in 2012, yet, as that season proved for Union, one goal scorer is not enough.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 19, 2017, 05:29:59 PM
It is actually painful to watch this SLU team.  Just gave 2 goals in less than 15 seconds against Plattsburgh.  I don't know what else has to happen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 19, 2017, 05:34:53 PM
Now 3-1.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 19, 2017, 05:53:40 PM
This SLU team has now conceded 17 goals in 7 games.  They conceded 24 in 15 games in 2009 which (until it appears now) was the worst season (in my opinion) since the mid 90s.  The '05 team had a leaky defense but still got to the sweet 16.  They've had plenty of opportunities to convince me they could right the ship but this is going to be a bad season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 19, 2017, 06:43:32 PM
Allows three goals in 5 minutes, defender has the most shots and Augustine doesn't play.  This is a team in total disarray. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 19, 2017, 07:02:52 PM
Also big game for Vassar tonight starting in a few minutes at Wesleyan.  Gives them a chance for a quality result on the road against a NESCAC school.  Additionally, given the academic similarities between the two schools, it is very likely that they are competing for the same recruits. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 19, 2017, 07:53:07 PM
Vassar, playing without Mrlik it appears, goes down 1-0 in the first half after carrying play early.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 20, 2017, 09:45:41 AM
And with that loss the SUNYAC rejoices, it seems, besides "possibly" Skidmore there will be no at large bids handed out to the LL this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 20, 2017, 12:24:56 PM
Interesting day yesterday:  Coach Tosh plays the injury card; Vassar plays like a LL tournament bubble team without leading scorer; Hero sports moves LL up from 11th strongest conference to 5th, ahead of SUNYAC even though LL doesn't have a signature win and SUNYAC has prevailed in most of the matchups between the top echelon teams; and RPI has mid-level regional ranking, a further testament to Coach Clinton's considerable influence and making RPI a contender for an at large bid.  This weekend already poses do or die games starting with SLU v. Union. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 20, 2017, 02:32:14 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 20, 2017, 12:24:56 PM
Interesting day yesterday:  Coach Tosh plays the injury card; Vassar plays like a LL tournament bubble team without leading scorer; Hero sports moves LL up from 11th strongest conference to 5th, ahead of SUNYAC even though LL doesn't have a signature win and SUNYAC has prevailed in most of the matchups between the top echelon teams; and RPI has mid-level regional ranking, a further testament to Coach Clinton's considerable influence and making RPI a contender for an at large bid.  This weekend already poses do or die games starting with SLU v. Union.

This weekend's match of Hobart at Skidmore turns out to be important (beyond the Statesmen wanting to wipe away the sting of an overtime 1:0 home loss to Skidmore in last year's LL tournament that certainly played a part in Hobart missing the NCAAs).  Hobart already knows they need to win LL champ to dance. If Skidmore loses, then (I think) they will also need to win the LL champ.

Hobart looks to be better than the mid-table SUNYAC teams (beating Potsdam away, Genesseo at home, and in preseason drawing v. Oswego at Oswego). They have a chance to make a statement later this season when they host Cortland.

And a shout out to Saint of Old for his support in an earlier post. 
Sorry to see STL struggling in the early season: they have been the standard by which the other LL teams are measured!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 21, 2017, 12:42:08 PM
Much respect on the shout Bart, simply telling the truth.
The great thing about our game is the eye test. whether you win or lose one can tell whether the tam is playing good soccer (and if they are,  consistently winning is just a matter of time anyway).

I think I played 4 straight OT games against Hobart.
That's a team that has always brought it year in year out, difference lately is that the talent has improved and that is dangerous when paired to meet the work ethic.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 23, 2017, 04:47:42 PM
Hobart leads Skidmore 1-0 at 70'.  Okoye had a PK saved at 18', Santos red card at 35', and Hobart goal at 37'.

At 75', SLU and Union are tied 0-0.  0 SOG for Union.  Complete domination by Saints, but Union is packing it back and preventing quality chances.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 23, 2017, 05:04:05 PM
Skidmore ties it up at 86'.  SLU-Union to OT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 23, 2017, 06:17:16 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on September 23, 2017, 04:47:42 PM
Hobart leads Skidmore 1-0 at 70'.  Okoye had a PK saved at 18', Santos red card at 35', and Hobart goal at 37'.

At 75', SLU and Union are tied 0-0.  0 SOG for Union.  Complete domination by Saints, but Union is packing it back and preventing quality chances.

Big red card as he will miss the Williams game mid-week. Big break for Williams
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 24, 2017, 04:34:31 PM
Notes on a scorecard first full weekend of LL games: 1) Skidmore--gutty performance with Santos out most of the game on a red portends well for a Thoroughbred finals redemption after last year's Poughkeepsie horror show; 2) RPI--close game against Bard confirms overrated assessment; 3) Clarkson--huge win at home over a quality Ithaca side and what a positive feeling during the game from Coach Taylor and his bench; 4) Vassar--gets game winner against run if play in first half and is totally dominated by a weak Rochester team in the second casting significant doubt on its ability to repeat; 5) Hobart--missed chance to cast out last year's demons in a contest they should have been able to close out a man up although are likely to meet up with Skidmore again in the final; 6) SLU--rooters will point to shot domination against Union and detractors will point to inability to finish (can't remember the last time a player had 10 shots and no points); 7) Union--while packing it in worked to preserve a point in hindsight it is not the way to impress NCAA voters; 8) Ithaca--defense lets them down leaving them squarely on the bubble; 9) Bard--another year where close is not enough; and 10) RIT--outplayed Vassar for most of game and gave other teams a blueprint for de-throning the reigning champs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 26, 2017, 07:30:22 PM
Was just about to comment that SLU was really struggling against Clarkson's press and then Augustine scores on a nice run down the right flank off a take away at midfield .   Union tied at the half against Fisher.  Not much going on there, only 3 shots a piece.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 26, 2017, 09:13:41 PM
SLU gets a nice 2-0 win at Clarkson.  Union beats SJF 3-1.  Again, I have no idea why they continue to schedule such weak non-conference games.  SJF is their toughest non-conference opponent.  7-1-1 is an intrinsically good record but again, another weak schedule for them.  I think they have a decent team too.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 26, 2017, 10:36:39 PM
Did he change formations or is he still playing 3 at the back? From what I remember Durocher used to press his opponents way more than I have seen when I have watched them the past 2 years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 26, 2017, 10:47:53 PM
3 at the back again, but dropped another midfielder into a DM role.  They didn't press, mostly played out of the back and through the wings.  Clarkson only had one decent chance.   Much better performance tonight.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 27, 2017, 11:11:06 AM
Big Big  week in LL.
Bard v. Vassar
RIT v. Hobart
These are interesting games, that could potentially trip up two LL favorites.
Bard has already shown with their 2OT game against RPI that they will compete this year, and Hobart needs three points as too many ties in this league can prove costly with 10 teams competing for 6 spots.

A strong road win for SLU last night.
Clarkson is still in it at 1-1 and will feel like they can beat anyone in the league on their day.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 27, 2017, 06:00:10 PM
Vassar beat Bard, 1-0. First half was played evenly; second half not so much.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 27, 2017, 06:14:39 PM
And Hobart just beat RIT in OT. Didn't see the game, but stats look even.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 27, 2017, 06:19:10 PM
Was a very even game, though Hobart had the distinct 'edge' in fouls (and maybe also yellow cards).
Good goal by Hobart was negated by sloppy play on corner 2' later that allowed RIT to even score.
RIT may have been unlucky with a ball off crossbar that beat GK
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 27, 2017, 07:23:35 PM
Had the three screens going. Williams very dominsnt in first half in what could have been a 2 or 3 goal half instead of 1.  More even in the second half with Skidmore creating quality chances near end to no avail. Overall Williams a notch above. Vassar should have had 2 or 3 as well with Bard looking inept for large portions of the game. Vassar 2-0 in league against two winless teams. Union game should tell alot. Hobart possessed and built up while RIT played for counter. RIT could have easily won this game in the last 10 minutes with a counter attack goal. Moral of story--this league is wide open but for Bard.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 27, 2017, 10:59:31 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 27, 2017, 07:23:35 PM
Had the three screens going.

Gotta love it! Hardcore LL fan, no doubt about it! 

Quote from: deutschfan on September 27, 2017, 07:23:35 PM
Williams very dominsnt in first half in what could have been a 2 or 3 goal half instead of 1.  More even in the second half with Skidmore creating quality chances near end to no avail. Overall Williams a notch above. Vassar should have had 2 or 3 as well with Bard looking inept for large portions of the game. Vassar 2-0 in league against two winless teams. Union game should tell alot. Hobart possessed and built up while RIT played for counter. RIT could have easily won this game in the last 10 minutes with a counter attack goal. Moral of story--this league is wide open but for Bard.

I was unable to see any of the games and appreciate your summaries.  Your "moral of the story" is right on target.  I expect to see a logjam somewhere around 14 points as teams battle for playoff spots.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 29, 2017, 02:23:59 PM
Big Saturday for the LL.  Fixture predictions follow:
Clarkson 1  RIT  1
Vassar 1  Union  1
Skidmore 2  RPI 1
Hobart 2  Bard 0
SLU 1  Ithaca 0

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 29, 2017, 04:07:54 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 29, 2017, 02:23:59 PM
Big Saturday for the LL.  Fixture predictions follow:
Clarkson 1  RIT  1
Vassar 1  Union  1
Skidmore 2  RPI 1
Hobart 2  Bard 0
SLU 1  Ithaca 0

It's hard to quibble with any of these picks in the goal-challenged LL this year.  Two candidates for larger margins than those projected are Hobart at home against Bard and SLU on the road at Ithaca.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 29, 2017, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on September 29, 2017, 04:07:54 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 29, 2017, 02:23:59 PM
Big Saturday for the LL.  Fixture predictions follow:
Clarkson 1  RIT  1
Vassar 1  Union  1
Skidmore 2  RPI 1
Hobart 2  Bard 0
SLU 1  Ithaca 0

It's hard to quibble with any of these picks in the goal-challenged LL this year.  Two candidates for larger margins than those projected are Hobart at home against Bard and SLU on the road at Ithaca.

I'm thinking that Vassar will get a full result. Union will pack it in, making it hard for Vassar to get one goal (much less two). But, Union will have a difficult time getting forward.

Am expecting Skidmore and RPI to create a 0:0 tie -- Skidmore relies on direct, forceful play and set pieces. RPI will be very organized and it will be hard to go forward with a counter because of keeping nine behind the ball.

Want to believe that Hobart will score more, but they are averaging exactly one goal per game (7 goals for, 6 goals against) after seven games....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 30, 2017, 12:05:58 PM
Since I saw Skidmore on Wednesday I should make some comments. First off they desperately missed Santos in the middle of the pitch. To me that is why Williams dominated them for most of the game. The lone goal came on a 35 yard shot that was hit nicely but should have been saved by the GK. He was screened on the shot by his own defender and also a 5:30pm sun which was a huge factor. Other than that I thought Skidmore's GK was decent. Okoye was playing up top all game but Skidmore was struggling to get him the ball. In the last 20 minutes he started to come back into midfield himself a bit to get the ball. He had a couple chances with 1 very dangerous look. He is very cagey as he can lull the defenders asleep by not doing much and then out of nowhere he is running like mad..Still he was not to effective in this game. I thought #8 Zieff showed some great skill on the flank in the 2nd Half and #13 was skilled but kinda faded in the 2nd Half. With Santos they should beat RPI today IMO.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 30, 2017, 04:02:53 PM
Nice road performance by SLU at Ithaca to get a 3-1 win.  Came out flat to start the second half and quickly conceded, but a freshman stepped up to get the game winner and they kept the pressure on.  Even with SLU being up at half I would say Ithaca was the better team for 60 minutes.  Liberty League play is a whole different beast.

Skidmore ties it up with a minute left against RPI, great game so far. Hobart and Bard are tied early in the 2nd half, don't think Bard can withstand the pressure.

Vassar wins easily at Union.  I'm not sure if I'm fully sold on the Brewers yet going by their schedule so far.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 30, 2017, 05:34:01 PM
Bard 1, Hobart 1 F 2OT
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 30, 2017, 05:43:24 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 19, 2017, 03:02:47 PM
Totally agree with all points made.
Hobart seems to be rounding the corner and Vassar did the LL proud by holding Oneonta at home.
I think this year will be the most unpredictable in the last 10 years of the LL.
This is even moreso with the addition of two playoff teams.

Here is how I see it wrapping up:

6. Union gets in this year. First they hardly ever finish below this position and the program really needs a post season run.
5. RPI will get in. Since when do they not and Coach Clinton has them playing hard as usual.
4. Skidmore.Just a feeling about them dropping a couple games they should not.
3. SLU. Will have to win atleast a game on the road to get a
2. Hobart. Unfortunately for everyone else , I think Hobart have already experienced their early season slump and will be a favorite to add a tournament crown to last yeas league title.
1. Defending Champs will be tough to beat, but I still don't see them repeating unless they have home field throughout.
@ this point I am still sticking with predictions
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 01, 2017, 12:38:32 PM
Yes it is time again for notes on a scorecard from a pundit who was 1 for 5 on his Saturday predictions.  Most important game for the LL and its NCAA prospects was a UAA game in Rochester between UR and UC.  Why?  Because it shows how far LL teams have to go to catch the elite this year.  UC destroys UR in first 20 minutes, a team that decimated RIT and tied one of the league favorites Hobart away.  Now to the teams in order of standing: 1) Vassar--feasts on bottom part of the table having found a second up top threat in Novas, a development that should have all the LL teams worried; 2) SLU--Augustine's 1 v 4 run down the right against Clarkson for a superb finish jump starts the SLU LL season and puts them again among the LL elite; 3) Skidmore--But for last minute goal could have easily been 0-2 week and offense that is great on paper is looking anemic; 4) Hobart--Home tie against weak Bard is second most important LL game for NCAA purposes as one of league favorites should not have this kinda result, which could have easily been a loss if Bard finishes a six yard shot in the second OT; 5) RPI--mantra is defense wins championships and but for a lapse in the mixer would have had a big win against Skidmore; 6) Clarkson--3 shots in an OT game and an 0-2 week puts big dent in playoff aspirations; 7) RIT--Showing signs of life after missing chances to beat Hobart in OT and pulling off Clarkson win, although UR result provides a reality check; 8) Union--Letter to Coach Guinn, the days of making the NCAA tourney and not making the LL playoffs are over so an undefeated record against cupcake non-conference opponents actually does your team a disservice in not readying them for LL play; 9) Bard--Respectable results on the score line but still a team that is woefully overmatched by the top LL teams; and 10) Ithaca--Came into the league with a legacy of losing to LL teams in their non-conference fixtures and that legacy has not changed now they are in league despite looking good in preseason.       
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 02, 2017, 04:52:50 PM
Nice recap as usual, Deutsch!

In response to stlawus:

Quote from: stlawus on September 30, 2017, 04:02:53 PM
Vassar wins easily at Union.  I'm not sure if I'm fully sold on the Brewers yet going by their schedule so far.

I'm not sure I'm sold on any  LL team yet.  Nevertheless, my default value is always to go with SLU.  Their talent level is above the rest in the conference and they show signs of coming out of their early season slumber.  I fully expect Hobart to get it going soon as well.  As long as they have Okoye and a decent defense behind him, Skidmore is a threat to win any one game, although prevailing in two or three consecutive tournament games may prove challenging.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on October 03, 2017, 12:37:55 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 01, 2017, 12:38:32 PM
Yes it is time again for notes on a scorecard from a pundit who was 1 for 5 on his Saturday predictions.  Most important game for the LL and its NCAA prospects was a UAA game in Rochester between UR and UC.  Why?  Because it shows how far LL teams have to go to catch the elite this year.  UC destroys UR in first 20 minutes, a team that decimated RIT and tied one of the league favorites Hobart away.

This might mean something or it might mean nothing. Just to play devil's advocate, in 2010 we (SLU) beat Houghton. Houghton beat St. Bonaventure. St. Bonaventure beat Cleveland State. Cleveland State beat Akron. Does that mean we were better than Akron in the year that they won the NCAA championship? I don't think so. The results, while on the surface may seem troubling, aren't as clear cut as you make them out to be. That being said I do think the LL has gotten a bit weaker overall since my time. I might be biased though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 03, 2017, 04:52:00 PM
I get it.  Many times the transitive property of soccer scores doesn't work.  Using it there would have been a whole bunch of mediocre teams better that the National Champ Jumbos last year.  Be that as it may, I do think the UR results are a litmus test for the league and agree with Omma that there are question marks surrounding every LL team.  On a different subject, every once in a blue moon I call out a player of week injustice, and it is almost always a Bard player that is underappreciated.  This week the defensive pow was a goalie who threw two shutouts by making a grand total of, wait for it, 4 saves.  The Bard keeper gave up two goals on the road and made 23 saves--an unbelievable two-game number that would have gotten my vote.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2017, 05:09:19 PM
Quote from: Sandy on October 03, 2017, 12:37:55 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 01, 2017, 12:38:32 PM
Yes it is time again for notes on a scorecard from a pundit who was 1 for 5 on his Saturday predictions.  Most important game for the LL and its NCAA prospects was a UAA game in Rochester between UR and UC.  Why?  Because it shows how far LL teams have to go to catch the elite this year.  UC destroys UR in first 20 minutes, a team that decimated RIT and tied one of the league favorites Hobart away.

This might mean something or it might mean nothing. Just to play devil's advocate, in 2010 we (SLU) beat Houghton. Houghton beat St. Bonaventure. St. Bonaventure beat Cleveland State. Cleveland State beat Akron. Does that mean we were better than Akron in the year that they won the NCAA championship? I don't think so. The results, while on the surface may seem troubling, aren't as clear cut as you make them out to be. That being said I do think the LL has gotten a bit weaker overall since my time. I might be biased though.

Not sure when you played. but I think the league was strongest 09-13.   I guess you could make a case for 2015 with two teams winning NCAA tournament games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 04, 2017, 09:31:12 AM
SLU v. RPI:

The battle of the three letters always produces fireworks.
It is weird but I still have not gotten a full read these teams.
SLU has been up and down and in the middle, summed up perfectly by a 4-4-2 record.
RPI playing well, but disappointed to see them fail to hold on for what would have been a BIG 3 points against Skidmore in their last outing.

I have this one as a nail biter that goes into OT.

Home team has slight advantage once there.


Hobart v. Ithaca
Hobart has to win.
They have the better team, but as SLU just realized, Ithaca plays really well at home. Ithaca also know that they are playing for their lives and do not want to start conference play 0-3 in a brand new league. More than the loss, this might have a negative impact on morale going forward.

Hobart really wants this one, not only to put that Bard tie in the rear view, but also to make sure the Vassar and company don't get too far ahead of them in terms of seeding in conference playoffs.

Hobart might send a message in this one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 04, 2017, 05:57:33 PM
SLU grinds out a 1-0 win at home against RPI.  Still a bit early but they appear to be righting the ship.  Hobart currently up 1-0 at Ithaca and look to be in control.  Pressure's on Vassar this weekend playing at home against Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 04, 2017, 08:34:24 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 04, 2017, 05:57:33 PM
SLU grinds out a 1-0 win at home against RPI.  Still a bit early but they appear to be righting the ship.  Hobart currently up 1-0 at Ithaca and look to be in control.  Pressure's on Vassar this weekend playing at home against Skidmore.

Hobart wins 2-0, completely outplayed in first half, quite positive in second and could have been a bigger score line save for some misses and great goalie play by Ithaca's keeper.  Ithaca a better team than their LL record would suggest.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 04, 2017, 08:45:42 PM
Quote from: Part_Bart on October 04, 2017, 08:34:24 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 04, 2017, 05:57:33 PM
SLU grinds out a 1-0 win at home against RPI.  Still a bit early but they appear to be righting the ship.  Hobart currently up 1-0 at Ithaca and look to be in control.  Pressure's on Vassar this weekend playing at home against Skidmore.

Hobart wins 2-0, completely outplayed in first half, quite positive in second and could have been a bigger score line save for some misses and great goalie play by Ithaca's keeper.  Ithaca a better team than their LL record would suggest.

Indeed, Ithaca is a good team, especially at home.
It is really unfortunate for them.
They had  great start to the season.
They are a good team, know they are a good team, yet sit 0-3 in a brand new league.
Problem was they let a 1 goal lead slip and lost that first league game to Clarkson.
Cannot afford to do that in this league.

Luckily for them, the league is still young.
They have 6 games left and have already faced two of the more dangerous teams in the conference.
There is hope because the playoffs have 6 teams.

This league is almost like the prem.
There is as much intrigue at the bottom as there is at the top.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 05, 2017, 08:08:33 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 02, 2017, 01:35:11 PM
Hobart has to be incredibly frustrated by last year's ending. They should have prevailed against Skidmore in regulation and then to lose in penalties. If game goes other way they have Vassar at home and they dominated Vassar away with their physicality.  Hobart is my pick this year to rise above the rest. SLU offensively impaired again having the two most overrated returning first teamers on the offensive end.

Those two overrated Saints are finally coming around this year, with one of them assisting on the GW to the other :)

Goal scorer is actually a junior who scored his 2nd goal of the year, 10th of his career (All 10 goals either game winning or game tying goals).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 05, 2017, 09:04:32 AM
I did give Mr. Augustine a shout out on his one goal this season and 10 goals in 3 years is approaching Jansennesque numbers.  So who wins the LL finals rematch in the biggest game of the weekend?  I would make a pick but then like last week would be embarrassed by its accuracy.  Does Skidmore come out charging using their physicality advantage knowing that 2 pks killed their NCAA hopes last year?  Which Vassar team shows up, the one that laid an egg against Wesleyan or looked very strong against Oneonta, the one that dominated RIT in the first half or the one that was dominated by RIT in the second?  So many questions, so little time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 05, 2017, 11:22:54 AM
I'm not sold on Vassar.  Great talent and a more eye-pleasing brand of soccer than what I see watching RPI, or Hobart, or Skidmore (and am still not sure what I am seeing when watching the various SLU versions of soccer from this fall).  This said, Vassar struggles with physical play. Maybe they will be better this year with physical opponents (and the tie with Oneonta suggests this)?

Still, I see Skidmore grinding a 2:1 win this weekend

More broadly, Skidmore has some talent -- as others have noted; but, they win by smashing into people and grinding and making the game very disjointed.  Hobart does the same (and there were 37 fouls, eight yellows a a straight red card in the Skidmore/Hobart match -- and it could have been much more if the ref had been tracking the off-the-ball contact by players on both teams).  Both RPI and SLU are very committed to possessing and will work hard to get the ball away from opponents. This is not the same as the physicality of Skidmore and Hobart, but is still disruptive for a skill-based team, like Vassar, to thrive.

Ithaca and RIT seem to be unlucky in that they play smart soccer but still have some breakdowns.  Both these teams are working to succeed in LL, but maybe lack a little depth and wear down in games?

Union, Bard and Clarkson all seem to be struggling to match the skill and physicality of LL teams.  Bard actually is more physical than in past years, Clarkson seems to be going for the skill-based approach (head coach was at Vassar before taking this position), and Union just packs it in against LL opponents and hopes for a counter, while feasting on weaker non-league teams (as others have noted). 

Next weekend, Hobart will play at Union on Friday and then Saturday at Skidmore.  I can imagine no goals being scored in either game (given the defensive shape of the two home teams and Hobart's ability to not score).

So, my thinking is that SLU and Vassar are likely to be two of the top seeded teams for LL tournament (and showcase the two most different styles of play in LL).
Skidmore and Hobart will have some blemishes (lots of ties, maybe a loss or two, some wins) and will be tough outs. If they have to see each other early in the tournament, that could become an epic third-time's the charm for Hobart, or ...  I think one of these two wins LL.
Fifth and sixth place teams are not clear, but my bias is that RPI will be one of them. Still thinking that Ithaca, or RIT, or Union, will get in as a sixth seed (and then we'll see what they can do!!!).

Saint of Old noted in a recent post that the parity in the LL is such that teams currently in places 6-10 are all strong and capable and there is lots of soccer to be played.  Lots of the dust will settle after next weeks Fri/Sat double-game slates.  This weekend provides us the Skidmore/Vassar game and the other matches (if they play out as I suspect) will clarify top half and bottom half of the league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 05, 2017, 10:54:45 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 05, 2017, 09:04:32 AM
I did give Mr. Augustine a shout out on his one goal this season and 10 goals in 3 years is approaching Jansennesque numbers.  So who wins the LL finals rematch in the biggest game of the weekend?  I would make a pick but then like last week would be embarrassed by its accuracy.  Does Skidmore come out charging using their physicality advantage knowing that 2 pks killed their NCAA hopes last year?  Which Vassar team shows up, the one that laid an egg against Wesleyan or looked very strong against Oneonta, the one that dominated RIT in the first half or the one that was dominated by RIT in the second?  So many questions, so little time.
Good ol Sebastian Jansen, one of the most dangerous strikers the league has ever seen.
Jansen, Beek and Gorman are perhaps the best strikers of the decade or maybe 2...
For a holding midfielder, 10 goals in a career is not bad, 10 game winners in 2.5 years is to me impressive.
As I am sure you know as a man of the game "there are goals and there are goals".
I had a coach once who was fond of saying that in a 7-0 game, he would see normally sedated players attempt overhead bicycle kicks in an attempt to score, when the game is tied or your team is down, the ball gets heavier, space gets tighter and time moves faster.
That's when the real ballers come to shine.

As for where we are now in the season:
Man, is this a crazy year or what.
I will just sum it up as saying that at this point, right now, I cannot with reasonably certainty rule anyone out of the conference tournament.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 06, 2017, 02:03:04 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 05, 2017, 10:54:45 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 05, 2017, 09:04:32 AM
I did give Mr. Augustine a shout out on his one goal this season and 10 goals in 3 years is approaching Jansennesque numbers.  So who wins the LL finals rematch in the biggest game of the weekend?  I would make a pick but then like last week would be embarrassed by its accuracy.  Does Skidmore come out charging using their physicality advantage knowing that 2 pks killed their NCAA hopes last year?  Which Vassar team shows up, the one that laid an egg against Wesleyan or looked very strong against Oneonta, the one that dominated RIT in the first half or the one that was dominated by RIT in the second?  So many questions, so little time.
Good ol Sebastian Jansen, one of the most dangerous strikers the league has ever seen.
Jansen, Beek and Gorman are perhaps the best strikers of the decade or maybe 2...
For a holding midfielder, 10 goals in a career is not bad, 10 game winners in 2.5 years is to me impressive.
As I am sure you know as a man of the game "there are goals and there are goals".
I had a coach once who was fond of saying that in a 7-0 game, he would see normally sedated players attempt overhead bicycle kicks in an attempt to score, when the game is tied or your team is down, the ball gets heavier, space gets tighter and time moves faster.
That's when the real ballers come to shine.

As for where we are now in the season:
Man, is this a crazy year or what.
I will just sum it up as saying that at this point, right now, I cannot with reasonably certainty rule anyone out of the conference tournament.

Jansen was about the most overrated player the league has ever seen.  How many goes did he score in the LL tourney? NCAA Tourney? Big players score big goals in big games. Kid was a decent player who never got a Chance to prove it because his coach preferred the ego massage of winning 7-0 over anybody begging for a game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 06, 2017, 06:22:19 PM
A 2:00 a.m. rant against Mr. Jansen.  I hope you are on the west coast.  In the words of Samuel L. Jackson from Pulp Fiction, "well allow me to retort."  As Saint said, Jansen was one of the most dangerous strikers the league has seen scoring 20 goals in one year alone, 2012.  As you are fond of SLU perhaps your animus toward Jansen is that he broke SLU's heart and their Number 7 ranking with the winning header his senior year.  Or maybe because his laser off the goalie's chest in 2009 against SLU assisted on the winning goal that helped keep SLU out of the LL tourney that year.  Not only was Jansen the rookie of the year in 2009 but also was the LL player of the year in 2012 making All-American and routinely earning player of the week while amassing 21 points in league games alone.  He never scored an NCAA goal because Union never made the tourney.  Perhaps his greatest achievement was that he was a UNANIMOUS First Teamer in 2012.  Why do I capitalize that?  As I was looking up Jansen's accomplishments I noticed a dearth of LL first XI players with asterisks.  In the history of the league commencing 2004 only 9 players have achieved that honor (DeMello, probably the best player the league has produced--Saint may even agree with me on that-- stands alone at doing it twice) with the last two in 2013.  This is fewer than the number of All Americans the league has generated.  You don't get every opposing coach in the league to vote for you unless you are something else.  That is rarified air.  Here's to you Sebastiaan in this flashback moment and no I am not his brother nor was I born in the RSA.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 07, 2017, 12:29:42 PM
I'm glad you went and did all that research. He earned  a great set of accolades, but I was never personally impressed by him. That's probably because I was never impressed with his team as a whole.

You know, if someone were to hold the opinion that a player was overrated, then listing their accolades would sort of back that up...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 07, 2017, 02:56:20 PM
I get it.  At times I have been known to view certain players as overrated.  In Jansen's case his stats led to the accolades as opposed to when there is a disconnect between stats and accolades.  Union came out of its shell, dominated the second half, missed an open net in the 84th minute and RPI makes them pay with a 88th minute goal off a set piece.  Vassar and Skidmore scoreless after a foul filled 1st half and Ithaca destroys Bard.  Like those who have expressed this sentiment already, still don't know who is the cream of this LL crop.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 07, 2017, 05:33:04 PM
Extremely disappointing result for SLU today against RIT.  Huge lapse of focus at the end of regulation resulted in RIT equalizing.  Overtime was even worse.  Players losing their first touch all over the place and half of the passes made were directly to RIT players.  Seems like everyone else drew today in the league as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 07, 2017, 08:45:34 PM
So this is the goal that Vassar GK conceded to Skidmore today?  WOW I mean it's sunny out but that GK for Vassar would find the pine real fast if I was in charge.



https://boxcast.tv/highlights/vassar-mens-soccer-vs-skidmore-college-370798/752368/z7ysdl51iopgumhjklqm

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 07, 2017, 09:03:21 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 07, 2017, 05:33:04 PM
Extremely disappointing result for SLU today against RIT.  Huge lapse of focus at the end of regulation resulted in RIT equalizing.  Overtime was even worse.  Players losing their first touch all over the place and half of the passes made were directly to RIT players.  Seems like everyone else drew today in the league as well.


I caught the highlights on SLU's site. Those are 2 BAD goals to concede to RIT. Both goals were total loss of concentration and weak marking and not sticking your opponent. They need some bite in the back for sure. Also, the missed PK. Looked like it was raining so maybe that affected the field? Still as a SLU fan like you guys are you gotta be happy that everyone in LL seems to be beating each other up and that you look at the table and see SLU in 1st place. Still it will not matter much in November if you are defending like that
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 07, 2017, 09:44:01 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 07, 2017, 09:03:21 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 07, 2017, 05:33:04 PM
Extremely disappointing result for SLU today against RIT.  Huge lapse of focus at the end of regulation resulted in RIT equalizing.  Overtime was even worse.  Players losing their first touch all over the place and half of the passes made were directly to RIT players.  Seems like everyone else drew today in the league as well.


I caught the highlights on SLU's site. Those are 2 BAD goals to concede to RIT. Both goals were total loss of concentration and weak marking and not sticking your opponent. They need some bite in the back for sure. Also, the missed PK. Looked like it was raining so maybe that affected the field? Still as a SLU fan like you guys are you gotta be happy that everyone in LL seems to be beating each other up and that you look at the table and see SLU in 1st place. Still it will not matter much in November if you are defending like that

The defending has been pretty good the last 3 games, but more often than not this has been the case.  I still would prefer 4 in the back.  The good news is that Dede is stepping up and taking over.  But I agree, none of it matters come November if the back line continues to have mental lapses.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 09, 2017, 11:35:23 AM
What a LL we have on our hands.

Clarkson does very well to tie Hobart.
Hobart having real trouble scoring and Clarkson seems determined to hang on for a post season qualification.

Too bad for them Ithaca also intends to get to the post-season and had the best weekend in the conference with a dismantling of Bard.
Ithaca will cause some people trouble this year and are seemingly putting it together.

RPI is RPI, they will be in the post season, you can count on it.

Skidmore will as well, but have tied too many games to have a realistic chance at #1 overall seed.
Vassar is doing very well and are poised to win the conference regular season title.

SLU could have really turned the season around in no uncertain terms, but fell 2 minutes short due to lack of concentration.

RIT is still in this thing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: vassarfan on October 09, 2017, 11:55:47 AM
Hey guys I played at Vassar a few years back and just started following the league again last year. I just wanted to thank you all for your posts. Its great to get insight from people watching the games as I miss most of them and unfortunately the school write-ups don't really tell the full story.

Don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but in the case of Jansen, I don't think he was overrated at all. I battled against him for four years and thought he was a tough and skilled player that carried his team for most of his career. His individual accolades can be debated but I always thought his impact on the pitch spoke for itself. 

Quick question for the St. Lawrence bloggers. I played 09-12 and thought St. Lawrence had by far the most talented team in the league. Has the talent level dipped a bit on your squad since past years or was it just exceptionally good during those years? For reference, some of the guys on those teams were Brendan Gorman, Demello and Laird. I always thought Gorman was by far the best player in the league and it was really too bad he got hurt because that team would have been special.

Anyways thanks again for your posts. Really enjoy reading them and keeping up with the league
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 09, 2017, 12:06:25 PM
Quote from: vassarfan on October 09, 2017, 11:55:47 AM
Hey guys I played at Vassar a few years back and just started following the league again last year. I just wanted to thank you all for your posts. Its great to get insight from people watching the games as I miss most of them and unfortunately the school write-ups don't really tell the full story.

Don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but in the case of Jansen, I don't think he was overrated at all. I battled against him for four years and thought he was a tough and skilled player that carried his team for most of his career. His individual accolades can be debated but I always thought his impact on the pitch spoke for itself. 

Quick question for the St. Lawrence bloggers. I played 09-12 and thought St. Lawrence had by far the most talented team in the league. Has the talent level dipped a bit on your squad since past years or was it just exceptionally good during those years? For reference, some of the guys on those teams were Brendan Gorman, Demello and Laird. I always thought Gorman was by far the best player in the league and it was really too bad he got hurt because that team would have been special.

Anyways thanks again for your posts. Really enjoy reading them and keeping up with the league
Welcome Brother.
I hated Vassar, but again it was because they always played tough.
They were new to the league during my era but played extremely hard back then and you knew it was only a matter of time before the program took off.

As to your question, yes, SLU had quite a bit of fire power back then.
Those teams also included Bednarsky (an all-time great midfielder for the team) the brilliant goalie Abernathy and Harry Copeland, the 7 foot technical defender.
I don't think the team has taken a dip talent wise, I think (as has been debated here) SLU now has 2 all-time great Saint  midfielders on the team and a young core of players that will come good in time.

This team will come good. Simply going through a transition at the moment, but still, currently on a modest 5 game unbeaten streak and lead the LL.

I agree with your assessment and believe that had Gorman and Demello not been badly injured the team would have won a 2nd championship duing the time period yo u referenced. In 2011 the team was #1 the entire season despite losing all three starting fwds to season ending injuries.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 09, 2017, 01:57:02 PM
Welcome Vassar fan.  Your 2012 team win against Tufts in the NCAAs was against a group that would go on to win 2 national championships.  Very impressive.  Saint stole my thunder with his summary but here is this week's notes on a scorecard in order of current LL standings: 1) SLU--Tie against under .500 RIT at home due to poor defense and an inexplicable lack of OT urgency destroys any Pool C aspirations and renders this week's fixture against Vassar a must win given Vassar's 6 points from Union and RIT compared to SLU's 2; 2) Vassar--Goalie gaffe on 50 yard free kick keeps a league race alive although a repeat of 2015's home weekend wins against SLU and Clarkson will virtually seal regular season; 3) Hobart--Second tie against bottom table team also kills Pool C aspirations; 4) Skidmore--Offense lags against good teams and lucky not to be a 4 point team with 88th minute goal against RPI and gift from Vassar; 5) RPI--Last second win against Union can't hide fact that this is a paper tiger; 6) Clarkson--Tie with Hobart gives life but now needs a repeat of Coach Taylor's first game against Vassar; 7) RIT--Team that basically played even against the league leaders deserves a better place in the standings; 8) Ithaca--A good team takes out its frustrations against Bard but still only has spoiler role; 9) Union--Creative offensive play against RPI deserves kudos but alas; and 10) Bard--Hard to get results giving up an average of around 20 shots per game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 09, 2017, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 09, 2017, 11:35:23 AM
What a LL we have on our hands.

Clarkson does very well to tie Hobart.
Hobart having real trouble scoring and Clarkson seems determined to hang on for a post season qualification.

Too bad for them Ithaca also intends to get to the post-season and had the best weekend in the conference with a dismantling of Bard.
Ithaca will cause some people trouble this year and are seemingly putting it together.

RPI is RPI, they will be in the post season, you can count on it.

Skidmore will as well, but have tied too many games to have a realistic chance at #1 overall seed.
Vassar is doing very well and are poised to win the conference regular season title.

SLU could have really turned the season around in no uncertain terms, but fell 2 minutes short due to lack of concentration.

RIT is still in this thing.

Hobart can. not. score (1.1 GF, 0.8GA over 10 games, including six OT/five 2OT).
Like the Bard game, Clarkson this past weekend was a four act play in offensive ... effort.
If it goes as it has gone, Hobart may not score this weekend against Union OR RPI -- and may not let in a goal, either.
Am expecting 220 minutes of soccer.....

I think Ithaca is a team getting better and better this season and it puzzles me they lost to Clarkson (who may be able to snare the 6th LL tournament seed!).

Per the thread on SLU (past and present), my sense is that IF SLU is down a bit in talent (not for me to say, but IF), the play in LL is more a reflection of the rest of the league getting a bit more talent, being a bit better organized to stop other teams from scoring, and perhaps the stability of the top program's coaches (they know the other teams so well).  Or maybe it is just that I spend too much time watching RPI and Hobart?

Shout out to deutschfan's weekend update -- spot on for me.
Am thinking this is a big weekend as some of the upper-table teams play each other.
Looking forward to next Monday's update after this weekend's action.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 09, 2017, 05:31:37 PM
A shout out also to Mr. Dede who had two excellent goals in two games and unlike most of the members of his team showed some signs of urgency in the RIT OT periods.  Saint--I call them like I see them.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 09, 2017, 06:35:08 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 09, 2017, 01:57:02 PM
Welcome Vassar fan.  Your 2012 team win against Tufts in the NCAAs was against a group that would go on to win 2 national championships. 

Yes, welcome to a friendly, spirited, and informative thread on a friendly, spirited, and informative site!  There we some real standouts during your era as a Brewer, with herculean Zander Mrlik at the top of the list, joined by netminder Ryan Grimme, free kick artist Juliano Pereira, and distributor (and current Vassar assistant) Ross Macklin.  The Mrlik 2.0 (or actually 3.0, counting former Brewer basketball/baseball player Johnny) era is a bit different stylistically than the Mrlik 1.0 era, but is having a similar level of success on the pitch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 09, 2017, 11:17:01 PM
Quote from: vassarfan on October 09, 2017, 11:55:47 AM
Hey guys I played at Vassar a few years back and just started following the league again last year. I just wanted to thank you all for your posts. Its great to get insight from people watching the games as I miss most of them and unfortunately the school write-ups don't really tell the full story.

Don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but in the case of Jansen, I don't think he was overrated at all. I battled against him for four years and thought he was a tough and skilled player that carried his team for most of his career. His individual accolades can be debated but I always thought his impact on the pitch spoke for itself. 

Quick question for the St. Lawrence bloggers. I played 09-12 and thought St. Lawrence had by far the most talented team in the league. Has the talent level dipped a bit on your squad since past years or was it just exceptionally good during those years? For reference, some of the guys on those teams were Brendan Gorman, Demello and Laird. I always thought Gorman was by far the best player in the league and it was really too bad he got hurt because that team would have been special.

Anyways thanks again for your posts. Really enjoy reading them and keeping up with the league

The 2011 and 2013 teams I think had the largest quantity of individual talent since the championship squad in '99.  The Durocher teams always had talented players but there were a lot of diamonds in the rough that Durocher recruited who fit the system perfectly.  Other guys have said this team haven't taken a dip in talent, and while I greatly respect their opinions I'm going to have to disagree as far as this year goes.  There are a few extremely talented players like Dede and Brandell, but collectively I think the talent level is a tad down this year.  Toshack is still finding his sea legs with the team so I expect the team to return to previous talent levels.  Right now there are just too many individual mistakes and lapses in concentration.   The issue with SLU soccer is that almost every year the best players get injured at the end of the season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 10, 2017, 12:22:52 PM
Omma's listing of some of Vassar's standouts and Saint's prediction during his playing days that Vassar would improve reminded me that one of the main reasons for Vassar's rise over the past decade is the staff's ability to recruit outside the Northeast Region, and in particular to recruit from California.  From Brian Bianchetti, Vassar's first POY, to Zander Mrlik Vassar's first DPOY and All American, to Tom Wiechert Vassar's first unanimous First Teamer, to Mattie Mrlik Vassar's first Rookie POY, to Alex Gonzalez last year's LL Tourney Finals hero, all were California raised.  Nano Pereira, who was one of the best mid-fielders in the league during his four years, should have received more recognition but unfortunately was in DeMello's shadow. 4 of the starters on the 2012 and 2016 teams were Californians.  SLU has grabbed a few California players that made an impact including the Buntons but nothing like Vassar's California crew.  While Skidmore wins the prize for ability to attract talented international players, none of those players have enjoyed a LL Championship or NCAA berth.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 12, 2017, 09:54:08 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 10, 2017, 12:22:52 PM
Omma's listing of some of Vassar's standouts and Saint's prediction during his playing days that Vassar would improve reminded me that one of the main reasons for Vassar's rise over the past decade is the staff's ability to recruit outside the Northeast Region, and in particular to recruit from California.  From Brian Bianchetti, Vassar's first POY, to Zander Mrlik Vassar's first DPOY and All American, to Tom Wiechert Vassar's first unanimous First Teamer, to Mattie Mrlik Vassar's first Rookie POY, to Alex Gonzalez last year's LL Tourney Finals hero, all were California raised.  Nano Pereira, who was one of the best mid-fielders in the league during his four years, should have received more recognition but unfortunately was in DeMello's shadow. 4 of the starters on the 2012 and 2016 teams were Californians.  SLU has grabbed a few California players that made an impact including the Buntons but nothing like Vassar's California crew.  While Skidmore wins the prize for ability to attract talented international players, none of those players have enjoyed a LL Championship or NCAA berth.   

Pereira was a maestro. That whole midfield 3 was fantastic together.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 12, 2017, 09:59:22 AM
This is the BIG weekend in the LL starting tomorrow and Saturday....waiting for deutschfan's and Saint of Old's predictions but since I have seen RPI, Skidmore, SLU and Hobart at least 2 times I might give it a go later today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 12, 2017, 11:51:39 AM
I am honored that Mr. Right invited my picks rspecially as they were so wrong last time. Invitation accepted. Biggest game of weekend SLU v Vassar. Vassar is the better team but will lose 2-1 because they will be severely tested on Friday by Clarkson while SLU was having shooting drills against Bard. Predictions: Friday-- Vassar 2-Clarkson 1; SLU 3-Bard 0; Skidmore 1-Ithaca 0; Hobart 1-Union 1; and RPI 1-RIT 1. Saturday--SLU 2-Vassar 1; Clarkson 2-Bard 1; Union 1-Ithaca 1; Skidmore 1-RIT 1; Hobart 1-RPI 0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 12, 2017, 01:12:59 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 12, 2017, 11:51:39 AM
I am honored that Mr. Right invited my picks rspecially as they were so wrong last time. Invitation accepted. Biggest game of weekend SLU v Vassar. Vassar is the better team but will lose 2-1 because they will be severely tested on Friday by Clarkson while SLU was having shooting drills against Bard. Predictions: Friday-- Vassar 2-Clarkson 1; SLU 3-Bard 0; Skidmore 1-Ithaca 0; Hobart 1-Union 1; and RPI 1-RIT 1. Saturday--SLU 2-Vassar 1; Clarkson 2-Bard 1; Union 1-Ithaca 1; Skidmore 1-RIT 1; Hobart 1-RPI 0.


Ok...deutschfan must be a little busy today. I will make some pics and try to give a sentence or 2 explanation of why I am picking. Since I have only seen half the teams I will try my best and only pick Friday's games. The Liberty League teams I have seen this year give me the impression that like Nescac the league is down a bit. That does not mean the Champion could not make a run in the NCAA's as the champion will get a somewhat decent draw most likely on the road. No LL team has a good enough record to host in the NCAA's IMO. Unless Skidmore runs the table and wins a couple tournament games which by the way is possible looking at their schedule to finish the season. They do have a very tough match up at SLU next weekend that could decide the #1 seed.

Friday:

Clarkson at Vassar---I would guess history would tell me this has been a one sided affair tilting towards Vassar. Former Vassar assistant is doing a fine job rebuilding Clarkson. He was an interesting hire for Clarkson as he had no Head Coaching experience and was quite young. He is British I believe so the accent might have helped in the interview as did his experience in the LL. Anyway he has done a fine job and I watched Clarkson last year against someone and they were not just whacking the ball as they were trying to play a bit. Clarkson sit tied with RIT for that last playoff spot and #6 seed. I forget if the LL does positioning off of points like Nescac or winning %..A draw for Clarkson in this game should be the goal. Vassar is fighting for 1 of those coveted 2 Top spots to earn the bye and get directly into the LL Semi-Finals. They have the points and more importantly the games in hand. This is a huge weekend for them as if they sweep Clarkson and SLU on Saturday they should be able to punch their ticket to the Semi's...Vassar 2-1

SLU at Bard----No clue how good or bad Bard is. Looking at their results they have been in most games losing a ton of 1 goal games. I am guessing in the LL they have been out shot by a wide margin. The last 2 years it has taken OT for SLU to win both games v Bard. Bard also has a very young gun coach after the sudden passing of Andy McCabe who did all of Saward's recruiting at Middlebury. Brandon Jackson played at Middlebury when they won the 2007 NCAA Championship. He was a solid player if I remember correctly and was a hard worker. Excellent to see a young American coach get this job. It must be VERY tough to recruit to Bard so he has his hands full...I do not think it takes OT this year. SLU 3-1

RIT at RPI----RPI is 7-3-1 and their 3 losses were all by 1 goal to SLU, Oneonta and Williams. They will hang around in games and try to steal them on the counter against better teams. I was not overly impressed with this years squad as going forward they really struggle. Adam Clinton always has them working hard and playing scrappy. What has happened to RIT? Maybe about 7-10 years ago their slide started. They used to be a very tough team to play and would get some talent in the soccer rich area of Rochester. They always played teams tough and would get results and I beieve went to the NCAA's a couple times at the turn of the century. I have not seen them play in years but maybe someone could explain to me the downfall?  Both teams have a ton to play for as neither team is comfortable in the standings yet. 1-1

Hobart at Union----I have said my piece about Shawn Griffin and Hobart a couple weeks ago on this thread BUT they have not lost a game since opening weekend when they got swept at their own 2 game opening weekend tournament. The problem is they only have 4 wins. They are 4-2-4 and have maybe the toughest remaining schedule in the conference. Them and SLU easily have the 2 toughest SOS in the league. Hobart should be much more physical than Union but Union does have a couple skilled players. I cannot imagine Guinn sitting in against Hobart like he did at SLU although he was rewarded with a draw, their only point in the league. Union has to start winning league games or they will be eliminated from the playoffs. They do have an easier schedule to finish the season so maybe Guinn plays for another draw and tries to beat Bard, Clarkson, RIT and Ithaca. Hobart 2-0

Ithaca at Skidmore---Skidmore has a ton to play for. If they were to win out they could get a Pool C as I believe they will be regionally ranked maybe #6 or #7 in the first rankings. More importantly they are playing for one of those Top 2 seeds and the Bye into the Semi's. I have not seen Ithaca play but Head Coach Kyle Dezotell, another Midd graduate and pretty good player was Head Coach at Norwich University for years. I assumed he would have been next in line to take over for Saward at Midd but apparently NOT. They have a ton of losses and then this 5-0 trashing of Bard...Is that a 1 off? or are Ithaca improving as the season moves along. I think Skidmore takes them lightly and they get upset...Ithaca 1-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 12, 2017, 08:42:15 PM
Clarkson at Vassar-
3-0 Vassar.
Biggest problem for Coach Taylor was having Jennings know he could beat him early in his Clarkson career. Wont happen again.

SLU at Bard-
2-1 SLU
Will be a tight game unless SLU scores early.

RIT at RPI- (Battle of the Alphabets)
2-0 RIT
This is where I pick my upset, RPI needs these three points real bad, but so does RIT.

Hobart at Union

0-0
Hobart has trouble scoring and Union will be tough at home.

Ithaca at Skidmore-
1-0 Skidmore

I would pick Ithaca at home, but they are a different team on the road.

We are all soccer Soothsayers...
Teams must beware of Friday the 13th.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 12, 2017, 10:18:57 PM
+k Saint...good work
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 13, 2017, 09:50:03 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 12, 2017, 08:42:15 PM
Clarkson at Vassar-
3-0 Vassar.
Biggest problem for Coach Taylor was having Jennings know he could beat him early in his Clarkson career. Wont happen again.

SLU at Bard-
2-1 SLU
Will be a tight game unless SLU scores early.

RIT at RPI- (Battle of the Alphabets)
2-0 RIT
This is where I pick my upset, RPI needs these three points real bad, but so does RIT.

Hobart at Union

0-0
Hobart has trouble scoring and Union will be tough at home.

Ithaca at Skidmore-
1-0 Skidmore

I would pick Ithaca at home, but they are a different team on the road.

We are all soccer Soothsayers...
Teams must beware of Friday the 13th.

I don't see RIT scoring at RPI, and wonder if RPI can score v. RIT.
Am thinking RPI talent difference and ball pressure leads to 1:0 for the home team.

On Hobart, with my head, I'm with Saint of Old -- 0:0.
With my heart, I'm with Mr. Right -- 2:0.
With my use of data, I'm thinking Union wins -- 1:0.
Over the past three seasons, Union and Hobart have scored 1 goal each (in different years) against each other.
This year Hobart has taken 174 shots  to get 11 goals.  Opponents have taken 94 shots to get 8 goals.
If I am the Union coach, I am not so worried about the lethality of Hobart's attack and would be willing to push more people forward.
Hobart gives up most of its goals against on counters (they have swapped out wing defenders and their goalies almost every other game, and sometimes at half time during games, when this happens).  In 2013, Union beat Hobart 5:0 -- all off strong counter attacks (it was not fun to watch, though the joy of Union's players and fans was ... almost ... contagious).

 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter McGavin on October 13, 2017, 01:27:51 PM
I'd like to take a crack at this if that's okay?

Vassar 1-0 Clarkson
SLU 3-1 over Bard
RIT 1-1 draw RPI
Hobart 2-1 over Union
Skidmore 2-0 over Ithaca
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 13, 2017, 02:18:49 PM
All predictions are welcome Shooter.  Someone will have bragging rights.  So far I am the only one to stick their neck out on Saturdays contests, even though not in as fulsome a fashion as I have done in the past.  Thanks for everyone's detailed analyses on the Friday contests.  How about your take on Hobart-RPI and Vassar-SLU on Saturday?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 13, 2017, 04:56:09 PM
Well here it is Halftime in all these games and I cannot decide which one to watch...I have Skidmore v Ithaca on right now...Just got home from work so i will have to decide which game to watch...At the Half we have Ithaca leading Skidmore 1-0, RIT up 2-0 at RPI and out shooting them 8-1 1st Half, SLU up 2-0 at Bard, Vassar and Clarkson must be stuck in the mud at 0-0 and Hobart at Union is 1-1...Lot's of goals which is good to see...I will keep the Skidmore game on to see if they can come back an win and to see what Ithaca has got. Intrigued to check out Hobart at Union though and Vassar v Clarkson....If Clarkson can hold that would be a fantastic result for them and with RIT winning and Skidmore losing things are playing out for SLU on this Friday the 13th.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 13, 2017, 05:22:46 PM
And Okoye comes up huge for Skidmore with a sweet header off a cross after a corner got cleared out...The kid is a pure goalscorer which is something a ton of teams just do not have. Again he is cagey as he will lull you to sleep and then Boom out of nowhere there he is...I must say Ithaca defending was pretty poor on the play...1-1 28 minutes left.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 13, 2017, 06:04:34 PM
Skidmore knocking it around pretty well on their carpet but cannot get a good look on goal here in OT...I do sniff a game winner though
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 13, 2017, 06:14:04 PM
Saint gets the award for his upset call.  Made my paper tiger description of RPI look good. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 13, 2017, 06:23:35 PM
Lucky guess :)

I just thought RIT's season came down to that game, RPI's did not.
Still feel like RPI will get in, but it looks like 6 teams fighting for 4 spots.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 13, 2017, 06:24:30 PM
WOW..Ithaca almost wins it off a long throw that was cleared off the line by a Skidmore defender...1-1 Final
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 14, 2017, 09:06:57 AM
Congrats to SLU, RIT and Hobart for their road wins. 
Home teams went 1-3-1 on Friday.

Ithaca continues to impress, as does Skidmore's ability to find a way to score late.

A no-reason-to-believe-me set of picks for 10/14 games:
RIT 1: 0 Skidmore (RIT on a rush, Skidmore's late game heroics fail them today).
SLU 2: 1 Vassar (My least confident pick, could see this go the other way and tie and not be surprised).
Clarkson 0:1 Bard (Bard finds a way)
Ithaca 1:0 Union (Ithaca rising, Union flat)
Hobart 1:0 RPI (How does RPI respond after laying an egg on Friday?)

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 14, 2017, 02:08:08 PM
Nightmare start for SLU against Vassar.  Yet again their inability to defend corners bites them early.  Inexcusable when there are two players over 6'3" in the back line.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2017, 02:19:21 PM
Brewers dominating. Player who got assist on the goal by heading off cross bar is 5'7".
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 14, 2017, 03:47:24 PM
SLU centerbacks cost them yet another game.  Did well to equalize with 10 minutes left and another whiff directly in front of the goal mouth loses them the game.  That's 3 times this year.  This team just does not have it.   

Vassar are clearly the best team in the league.  They didn't have a tough out of conference schedule so I wasn't sure about them but they were dominant today and I think they can win an NCAA tourney game or 2.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 14, 2017, 08:11:29 PM
Skidmore ANOTHER draw and they are 5-1-6(1-0-5). I have never seen anything like that..A 1-0-5 record in league...hmm they will be playing one of those quarterfinal games. Vassar a huge win today 2-1 over SLU. They will host Hobart for the title next weekend. If Hobart can beat Vassar and SLU they will win the league...2 huge wins for Hobart at Union and RPI this weekend. I think Hobart is the only school with a shot for a Pool C. A long shot but a shot. They control their own destiny IMO as they will have a strong SOS and finish with Vassar,SLU and Cortland. Win those 3 plus Utica and they finish 10-2-4 with a .590-.595 SOS..Knowing Hobart they would beat Cortland and lay an egg v Utica so the whole situation is up in the air. Still a nice weekend for the Bart as they are looking for 1 of those Top 2 spots. At the bottom is another fight for the final 2 spots with RPI, Clarkson, RIT and Ithaca fighting for 2 spots. The good thing is they all still play each other at least once. My guess is Ithaca and RIT grab those spots. Ithaca was better than i thought when I saw them at Skidmore on Friday. RPI just does not get me out of my chair and i think they miss out
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2017, 08:46:37 PM
Notes on a scorecard after a wild weekend that leaves 3 teams undefeated in league after 2/3 of the season, with one of those teams in danger of not making the top 6, and it appears like it will be a repeat of last year's top two teams—in order of standings: 1) Vassar coaching staff deserves kudos for two influential decisions, turning freshman defender Jose Novas into one of the top finishers in the league, and swapping goalies after huge error against Skidmore putting Marcelino in position to come up big against SLU; 2) Hobart—if offense gets in gear still has a chance to get top spot in league especially as Vassar has not shown on the road; 3) SLU—makes case against recruiting size over skill as 5'7" Novas ruins their hopes of winning league or getting a Pool C although the silver lining is both Vassar goals were easily preventable while Dede's run was inspirational; 4) Skidmore—Santos finally shows signs of life during the league season as Okoye continues to make case for POY, and team is in danger of becoming first undefeated LL team not to make the playoffs; 5) RIT—A star is born in senior and former USSDA player Dean Kouroupas who breaks out with 3 goals including two beauts against RPI, and RIT establishes itself as a team no one will want to draw in the playoffs; 6) RPI--The Tigers demonstrate RPI to be the tigre de papier they are and even Coach Clinton won't be able save their regional ranking after Hobart drives in the last minute stake; 7) Ithaca—Great weekend for Bombers as they almost steal a win from Skidmore on the road and then explode in first half against Union; 8) Clarkson—While I greatly admire Coach Taylor this group is not going to get it done as team's inability to push Vassar allowed Brewers to sub liberally in anticipation of SLU game; 9) Union—Lopez Jr. shows glimpses of his talent as striker while defense takes the weekend off, and Union attempts to be first LL team to go undefeated out of conference and winless in conference; and 10) Bard—Bright sides in two home loss weekend are that they held each opponent under 20 shots, they have the same league record as a team that is undefeated out of conference, and they can claim an assist in the Vassar win by wearing out SLU, which could have been one reason for SLU's somnambulic first half performance in Poughkeepsie.  BTW, congrats Mr. Right on your Colby pick and excellent assessment of upcoming LL outcomes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2017, 08:50:09 PM
I meant Hamilton pick but you have been saying Amherst is vulnerable all year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 14, 2017, 09:19:26 PM
Haha thanks..you got the most enjoyable weekend recaps in the business...+k...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 15, 2017, 06:33:42 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 30, 2017, 05:43:24 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 19, 2017, 03:02:47 PM
Totally agree with all points made.
Hobart seems to be rounding the corner and Vassar did the LL proud by holding Oneonta at home.
I think this year will be the most unpredictable in the last 10 years of the LL.
This is even moreso with the addition of two playoff teams.

Here is how I see it wrapping up:

6. Union gets in this year. First they hardly ever finish below this position and the program really needs a post season run.
5. RPI will get in. Since when do they not and Coach Clinton has them playing hard as usual.
4. Skidmore.Just a feeling about them dropping a couple games they should not.
3. SLU. Will have to win atleast a game on the road to get a
2. Hobart. Unfortunately for everyone else , I think Hobart have already experienced their early season slump and will be a favorite to add a tournament crown to last yeas league title.
1. Defending Champs will be tough to beat, but I still don't see them repeating unless they have home field throughout.
@ this point I am still sticking with predictions
There goes my prediction for the #6 seed in the tournament.
I just thought they would make it in given Clarkson's recent history and Ithaca having to adjust to the league.

As of now, Ithaca takes their place in my book.
This is a dangerous team that has a big future in the league.

This past wknd cleared up a lot of questions.
Hobart really waited till late to get their clincher but deserved their result.

Vassar and SLU might meet again.
Union is planning for 2018.
Bard making similar plans.
Clarkson is one loss away from joining them while the rest fight for the last three seeds as Brewersc,Statesmen and Saints have the first three locked up.
What a league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 17, 2017, 05:31:08 PM
Hobart and Cortland 0-0 midway thru the 2nd Half...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 17, 2017, 05:45:55 PM
Hobart v Cortland seems like a really even game in the 15 minutes of the 2nd Half that I have seen. 10 minutes left 0-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 17, 2017, 05:50:49 PM
Cortland with a GOLDEN opportunity as their quick striker got in on goal 1v1 with the GK after beating 2 Hobart defenders. Hobart GK gets BIG and stuffs him...0-0 6 minutes left
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 17, 2017, 06:19:52 PM
Cortland wins it it OT. A silly foul by Hobart about 35 yards out led to a set piece by Cortland's #12. He hit a nice shot on target from that distance but it was a ball that should have been caught by Hobart's GK. Hobart's GK misjudged it completely and over ran it a step and instead of catching the ball he decides to punch it and punches the ball right into the roof of the net. Horrific GK'ing error as he cost his team the game today. Seemed like a very even game but good teams win those games and average teams find a way to lose them. Cortland has some skill and speed but does not look like a very big physical team. They are a NCAA team for sure but I do not know how far they will go. Sweet 16 likely..You never know..Very tough loss for the Bart as the LL will only get the AQ this year. That being said Hobart looks like a team that could win the LL if the chips fall their way. You could say that about any of the 6 teams that qualify as it will be a wide open tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 18, 2017, 02:39:04 PM
1,2 and 3 are already decided in the LL.
We just don't know in what order.
The Vassar v. Hobart game might just be the decider for the league champion, the loser has to look over their shoulder for St. Lawrence.

None of these three teams want to have to win three post season games in order to dance, so I see a battle till the last game.

As for the rest of the league.
Union done
Bard Done
there are three spots left:
Skidmore
Clarkson
RIT
RPI
Ithaca
Only 3 of 5 will make it to post season play and will have to travel once there in order to win the league.

Right now Ithaca is playing the best ball, but had the worst start of all these teams.
RIT is catching fire as well and will likely get in.
Of Clarkson, Skidmore and RPI I would have to say Skidmore has the best shot at getting in with a game in hand and a more talented squad.

We should know who is going to the post season after match day 8.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 18, 2017, 09:16:55 PM
All of a sudden Skidmore's season is on the brink here as they drop a 3-2 decision to Clarkson at Home. They head up to Canton,NY on the weekend and finish with Bard. LL just got a little more interesting for those final 3 spots


Skidmore is in a slump as they are 1-2-5 in their last 8 games. Have won 1 game (Elmira) since Sept 19th.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 19, 2017, 12:35:37 PM
Don't understand Skidmore at all. They have the best offensive player in the league, a used to be solid and athletic defense, and at times showed well against teams like Williams. Santos' disappearance in league in his senior year is one factor but this can't be put on one player. Okoye is the rebirth of Adam Beek, likely AA and yet never will have played in an NCAA game. This is a team that but for two silly penalties would have won the LL championship last year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 19, 2017, 03:25:58 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 19, 2017, 12:35:37 PM
Don't understand Skidmore at all. They have the best offensive player in the league, a used to be solid and athletic defense, and at times showed well against teams like Williams. Santos' disappearance in league in his senior year is one factor but this can't be put on one player. Okoye is the rebirth of Adam Beek, likely AA and yet never will have played in an NCAA game. This is a team that but for two silly penalties would have won the LL championship last year.

I think Santos has had some injury issues this year, unfortunately. I kind of view this season as the end of a window of opportunity for the Thoroughbreds. It is just three short years ago that Skidmore had a roster that included Beek, Bakewell, Oyeniyi, Okoye, and Santos. Next year the program is sure to be in a rebuilding mode.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: diesel on October 20, 2017, 02:10:10 PM
Huge weekend with major playoff implications. Skidmore with a huge road game at SLU, both teams with a lot to play for. SLU still in the chase for a #1/#2 seed, Skidmore playing for their postseason. Another game to watch is RPI and Ithaca, both teams fighting for one of those final three playoff spots. Ithaca on a bit of a kick with their recent results- look for them to be all over an RPI that looks like it is losing its grip. Clarkson can likely wrap up a postseason spot with a win against a Union team that hasn't won a single LL game yet. RIT can advance their cause with a game against Bard. And finally Vassar at Hobart in a match that could decide a lot for playoff positioning. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 20, 2017, 08:53:02 PM
For Saturday:

RPI at Ithaca----From what I have seen of Ithaca which isn't much but enough to make a solid guess and from what I have read on here they play well at Home. RPI is coming off back to back Home losses this past weekend. I am guessing Adam Clinton gave them Monday off and then put them through a late season ringer on Tuesday as I am sure he was not happy. While I have been critical of them this season and they are short of talent this year I think they get rewarded in this game for busting their butt. Somehow they find a goal...1-0 RPI

Bard at RIT---RIT is 2-0-2 in their last 4 games. They seem to have found something. Bard did beat RIT last season 2-0 but they were a different team last year as they have regressed a bit this season. In 6 conference games they have 15 SOG..That is 2.5 SOG a game...Ahh that is not good. RIT has tons to play for and they need 3 pts in this game..RIT 2-0

Union at Clarkson---Clarkson with a huge mid-week win at Skidmore. Union has nothing to play for except pride. Union does have enough talent to be able to compete in this league IMO..They spotted Ithaca 4 last weekend but I cannot believe Clarkson will get 4 on them in this game. I have a hunch Clarkson takes Union a bit to lightly even if they have tons to play for and their coach getting them fired up. Teams with nothing to play for sometimes love rolling into town and making their opponents season as miserable as their own or more kindly it is known as playing spoiler.  Union 2-1

Vassar at Hobart-----Of all the games from all the regions I watched on Wednesday the game that is sticking in my head for some reason is the Cortland at Hobart match. I think because I might have witnessed the worst GK mistake I have seen all year. Hobart's GK absolutely cost them that game. Hobart ended up being regionally ranked and a win over Cortland would have only moved them up. They did come off a very impressive weekend last weekend getting 2 road wins in the league. The problem is they are 2-3-2 at Home and 4-0-2 on the road. This game I think will be tight and very likely for the #1 overall seed in the league. More important though is getting one of those 1st round byes that comes with finishing 1st and 2nd in the league. Both teams realize this and the game is played very cautiously by both sides. 1-1

Skidmore at SLU---I totally agree with Ommadawn that Skidmore's window is closing fast. Their best teams are behind them now and what could have been in 2013 and 2014. Something is missing with this team. As we all know the talent is there but is the fight? They do have Bard to finish the season so this is not a must win but a point would be nice. Before the Vassar match SLU seemed to have turned a corner going 4-0-2 in their last 6 but Vassar beat them. These two teams have to be the hardest to predict in the league as does anyone know what we will get tomorrow with either of these teams? Why do I have a hunch SLU scores early and look to be in control but concede late and we get a .......1-1

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 21, 2017, 11:21:05 AM
They've taken away our weekend private jet privileges at GE so I have time to watch some games and make my predictions, which have historically been way off: Ithaca v. RPI--I agree with Mr. Right that Coach Clinton will do everything he can to motivate his team, but the boys looked so despondent at the end of Saturday's game and the Bombers will be riding a 4 goal high--Ithaca 2, RPI 1; SLU v. Skidmore--Is either of these teams a quality team, and, if so, will it stand up in this game? Vassar has gotten results against SLU in the past, but never made them look bad as they did last Saturday.  Same with regard to Clarkson's mid-week win against Skidmore.  Saints are at home and are rested--Okoye 1, Dede 2; Vassar v. Hobart--this one as they say is for at least a lot of the marbles.  Hobart has not enjoyed a home field advantage this year but historically Vassar has not played well at Hobart.  Vassar has more offensive weapons and Hobart has the stronger defense albeit both teams have been saddled with tremendous goalie mistakes.  Defense wins championships--Hobart 1, Vassar 0; RIT v. Bard--Bard's tie against Hobart is one of the most inexplicable results of the season.  There are no more points for Bard this year and RIT is on a roll--RIT 2, Bard 0; Union v. Clarkson--Am loath to disagree with Mr. Right's analysis but have come to a different conclusion.  Clarkson is looking for a playoff spot and will be motivated while Union's highly touted freshmen spent their week preparing college transfer applications--Clarkson 1, Union 0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2017, 11:50:15 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 20, 2017, 08:53:02 PM
For Saturday:

RPI at Ithaca----From what I have seen of Ithaca which isn't much but enough to make a solid guess and from what I have read on here they play well at Home. RPI is coming off back to back Home losses this past weekend. I am guessing Adam Clinton gave them Monday off and then put them through a late season ringer on Tuesday as I am sure he was not happy. While I have been critical of them this season and they are short of talent this year I think they get rewarded in this game for busting their butt. Somehow they find a goal...1-0 RPI

Bard at RIT---RIT is 2-0-2 in their last 4 games. They seem to have found something. Bard did beat RIT last season 2-0 but they were a different team last year as they have regressed a bit this season. In 6 conference games they have 15 SOG..That is 2.5 SOG a game...Ahh that is not good. RIT has tons to play for and they need 3 pts in this game..RIT 2-0

Union at Clarkson---Clarkson with a huge mid-week win at Skidmore. Union has nothing to play for except pride. Union does have enough talent to be able to compete in this league IMO..They spotted Ithaca 4 last weekend but I cannot believe Clarkson will get 4 on them in this game. I have a hunch Clarkson takes Union a bit to lightly even if they have tons to play for and their coach getting them fired up. Teams with nothing to play for sometimes love rolling into town and making their opponents season as miserable as their own or more kindly it is known as playing spoiler.  Union 2-1

Vassar at Hobart-----Of all the games from all the regions I watched on Wednesday the game that is sticking in my head for some reason is the Cortland at Hobart match. I think because I might have witnessed the worst GK mistake I have seen all year. Hobart's GK absolutely cost them that game. Hobart ended up being regionally ranked and a win over Cortland would have only moved them up. They did come off a very impressive weekend last weekend getting 2 road wins in the league. The problem is they are 2-3-2 at Home and 4-0-2 on the road. This game I think will be tight and very likely for the #1 overall seed in the league. More important though is getting one of those 1st round byes that comes with finishing 1st and 2nd in the league. Both teams realize this and the game is played very cautiously by both sides. 1-1

Skidmore at SLU---I totally agree with Ommadawn that Skidmore's window is closing fast. Their best teams are behind them now and what could have been in 2013 and 2014. Something is missing with this team. As we all know the talent is there but is the fight? They do have Bard to finish the season so this is not a must win but a point would be nice. Before the Vassar match SLU seemed to have turned a corner going 4-0-2 in their last 6 but Vassar beat them. These two teams have to be the hardest to predict in the league as does anyone know what we will get tomorrow with either of these teams? Why do I have a hunch SLU scores early and look to be in control but concede late and we get a .......1-1
RPI @ Ithaca could  be a loser go home game.
Ithaca 2-0

Bard @RIT:
In m opinion, here is the most interesting game of the weekend.
Bard could knock our RIT, but Tigers have too much to play for
RIT 2-1.

Union at Clarkson:

Like Mr. R said, Union playing for pride.
I think they hammer Clarkson 3-0.

Vassar at Hobart:

Hobart 2-1.
This blows the league wide open.

Skidmore at SLU:

SLU knows it is playing for home field.
Skidmore knows that a loss knocks them out of playoff picture.
2-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 21, 2017, 12:44:08 PM
Saint--you are such a tease.  2-0 for which side in the SLU--Skidmore game, or are you just picking the score without picking the team that wins the game? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2017, 01:06:29 PM
So sorry.
I hit send a bit too soon.
Now that I have had time to think about it, I am even more torn about this pick than I was.

These are two desperate teams, who could have a big confidence boost with a win.

I think the home team gets the edge.

2-0 SLU.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 04:15:17 PM
RPI guts out a 2-1 victory over Ithaca...RIT slams Bard...Vassar and Bard 1-1 early 2nd Half and Clarkson and Union 0-0 early 2nd Half...SLU up on Skidmore 1-0 early 2nd Half...

These results do not bode well for Skidmore....Right now they are on the outside looking in and even a last match at Bard might not be enough...They need to fight for a draw up at SLU...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 04:42:52 PM
SLU stream having technical difficulties but they look to be in control over Skidmore with about 10 minutes left it is still 1-0 SLU..

Hobart and Vassar knotted up at 1-1 late in the 2nd Half...Nice stream for the Bart..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 04:58:17 PM
Hobart wins it 2-1 over Vassar in the 89th minute....#26 with a fine shot BUT I have no clue what the Vassar GK was doing on that play...He was caught in no man's land...Huge win for Hobart that sets up what looks to be a winner take all match at SLU next weekend. I believe Hobart can get a Draw and win the league..They will most likely be sitting deep and compact in Canton...BIG W
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 21, 2017, 04:59:24 PM
Late magic for Hobart.  Really nice goal with 40 seconds left to knock off Vassar.  SLU had a very comfortable win against Skidmore.  Skid only really had one decent chance.  Impressive performance by the SLU back line. 

Sets up for a huge match up next weekend between SLU and Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 05:06:57 PM
Yea in what I saw Skidmore had nothing dangerous at all the whole 2nd half...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 05:08:52 PM
Clarkson and Union heading to OT...Skidmore better hope Union can hold for 20 minutes.


Another issue for Skidmore and frankly Clarkson is that RPI, RIT and Ithaca all have a game in hand on them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 05:35:10 PM
union knocking on the door in the 108th minute at Clarkson and almost won the game off a long throw and then a corner. This looks to be ending in a 0-0 stalemate. Clarkson really needed a victory in this match.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 21, 2017, 06:53:27 PM
While this was unthinkable at the outset of league, Skidmore is pretty much done.  They have one game left and a maximum of 11 points.  Clarkson sits with 11 and holds the head to head tiebreaker against Skidmore.  Assuming Ithaca does not reach 12 points, Skidmore needs either RIT to go 0-2 against Ithaca and Union, or RPI to go 0-2 against Vassar and Clarkson.  Clarkson is in unless Ithaca passes them in points which is unlikely given the strength of Ithaca's last two opponents.  Congrats to Coach Taylor.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 07:06:09 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 21, 2017, 06:53:27 PM
While this was unthinkable at the outset of league, Skidmore is pretty much done.  They have one game left and a maximum of 11 points.  Clarkson sits with 11 and holds the head to head tiebreaker against Skidmore.  Assuming Ithaca does not reach 12 points, Skidmore needs either RIT to go 0-2 against Ithaca and Union, or RPI to go 0-2 against Vassar and Clarkson.  Clarkson is in unless Ithaca passes them in points which is unlikely given the strength of Ithaca's last two opponents.  Congrats to Coach Taylor.   

What are the tiebreakers for the Liberty League?  It is very possible that a 3-way tie happens
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 21, 2017, 07:38:32 PM
First tiebreaker is head to head.  Second is best record v. 1st place league finisher then 2nd place league finisher etc.  If you have three teams vying for one spot and each team split a game against the others get out a calculator.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 23, 2017, 10:17:51 AM
What a wild and crazy season.  For the third week in a row the number 1 and number 2 teams in the league will be fighting it out while there is a high probability that the two teams that were undefeated when they played their first league game will not make the expanded playoffs.  Here are notes on a scorecard by order of LL standing: 1) Hobart—Senior forward Patrick Schultz who has 4 game winners in 5 career goals decides that Hobart doesn't need another OT game, and, voila, a last minute run down the sidelines and goal to put the Statesmen in first place, at least for this week;  2) SLU—Am glad my earlier posts have motivated Mr. Dede who is now challenging Okoye for POY honors with his game winner against Skidmore; 3) Vassar—The nightmare that was Ocel's last minute goal that knocked them out of the 2012 NCAA tourney is repeated by Hobart but at least Vassar controls its fate to become regular season champion; 4) RIT—Six goals from six players during target practice against Bard is indicative that the Tigers are gearing up for a deep playoff run; 5) Clarkson—Tie against Union with tie-breaker edge against Skidmore has Coach Taylor's crew thinking first LL playoff berth ever; 6) RPI—But for Confair goal in OT Engineers would have been another historical LL stalwart that was in serious danger of missing the playoffs, although they still could; 7) Skidmore—Will the LL powers that be award POY to a player from a team that isn't in the top six, we soon may be seeing the answer to that question as Skidmore has lost definitely lost its mojo; 8) Ithaca—OT loss to RPI was a crusher in first season in a game that was very even but has Ithaca needing to win two road games against difficult teams to potentially make the playoffs; 9) Union—If there was any doubt about the lack of value in scheduling patsies, that doubt has been put to rest this season as Union still strives to become the first LL team to be undefeated in non-league contests and winless in league; and 10)  Bard—Point gained against Hobart is having a huge impact on the LL race but Shenberger's stellar career deserved a better ending. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on October 23, 2017, 10:56:36 AM
Johnny come lately to this board, but looking forward to Statesman in a crucial LL game this Saturday. We have new stands in place with a "press box" just for soccer now....just in time .....hope we need to use it after this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 23, 2017, 02:42:41 PM
Hobart v. SLU has always been a classic UCAA/Liberty League clash.
Some big battles in the past, and it will be again this weekend.

I have to say that I am very proud of this SLU team, would have been very easy to quit on the season, but these boys are built on sturdier stuff.

Same can be said of Hobart.

Both teams had bad starts and rebounded quite well and are now competing for league supremacy as we enter the final weekend.

The more interesting race in m y view is that #6 seed.
Who will get in?

Clarkson looks good, but I think RIT and Ithaca are also in the hunt and wont go away until the last game.

Tough for Skidmore, I had a feeling they would take a step back, but did not think they would miss the tournament.

It gets even worse looking forward as the entire league will be competing next season and it will be hard on Skidmore next season as well without their best current player.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 24, 2017, 10:00:02 AM
Going to be tough for one of Hobart, Vassar, or SLU to end up in 3rd and stuck with a play in game after such solid LL performances.  Given the competitiveness of the league, I don't think the 3 seed wants to mess with the 6 seed (whoever that ends up being).  Going to guess that Hobart tops SLU and Vassar tops Bard, leaving SLU in 3rd with a home playoff game, with the winner earning a trip down to Poughkeepsie for the semi's.

What a crazy year.  With this many teams in with a real chance, whoever has home field advantage is going to win it all.

Would love to see the playoffs back at SLU, but don't see it happening. With that said, SLU does have the ability to go down to Cozzens and get a result. Prove me wrong, fellas!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 11:56:45 AM
Quick Hit Predictions for Wednesday:

Ithaca at RIT---Still have only seen these teams for a Half each all year so it is tough to call. RIT has not lost a game in a month and have not lost at Home since losing to Vassar 2-1 on 9/23. Not only that they are scoring at an impressive clip against solid competition. They are 2-0-3 in their last 5 games all against LL foes and have scored at least 2 goals in each of those 5 games with a total of 15 goals(yes 6 against Bard but still). The senior Dean Kouroupas leads the team with 6 goals and he looked to have been possibly injured because he missed about 2 weeks in the middle of the season. Soph Simon Garno(guessing Coach's son) leads the team with 10 assists. This has to be RIT's best season since joining the league and best season in a while under longtime Head Coach Bill Garno. Still Ithaca is no slouch and they have struggled a bit recently I am sniffing an upset of sorts and predicting a draw...1-1

Vassar at RPI----Night game in Rensselaer. Big game as if Vassar wins it final 2 league games against RPI and Ithaca they will win the LL Regular Season. Still a draw will not kill them here as they would still have a possibility of winning it all if Hobart and SLU draw on Saturday. Adam Clinton got his charges pumped on Saturday and am guessing had them working their tails off to defeat Ithaca in OT. Vassar just has more talent as I do not see how RPI scores in this match.
2-0 Vassar

Union at Bard----The most meaningless league game of the year. Union showed well up at Clarkson on Saturday and had a real solid chance to win the game in the 108th minute but ultimately failed. Still a well played match especially with only pride on the line. Union lays an egg and Bard steals a victory.
2-1 Bard
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 24, 2017, 01:41:40 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 11:56:45 AM
Quick Hit Predictions for Wednesday:

This has to be RIT's best season since joining the league and best season in a while under longtime Head Coach Bill Garno.

In RIT's inaugural season in the LL (2011), they actually made it to the LL Championship game, where Vassar prevailed 3-2.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 02:02:50 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 24, 2017, 01:41:40 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 11:56:45 AM
Quick Hit Predictions for Wednesday:

This has to be RIT's best season since joining the league and best season in a while under longtime Head Coach Bill Garno.

In RIT's inaugural season in the LL (2011), they actually made it to the LL Championship game, where Vassar prevailed 3-2.


Ahh did not realize that...I was thinking back when RIT was a force in Upstate NY and made the NCAA's a couple times in the mid 2000's
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 24, 2017, 02:17:38 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 11:56:45 AM
Quick Hit Predictions for Wednesday:

Ithaca at RIT---Still have only seen these teams for a Half each all year so it is tough to call. RIT has not lost a game in a month and have not lost at Home since losing to Vassar 2-1 on 9/23. Not only that they are scoring at an impressive clip against solid competition. They are 2-0-3 in their last 5 games all against LL foes and have scored at least 2 goals in each of those 5 games with a total of 15 goals(yes 6 against Bard but still). The senior Dean Kouroupas leads the team with 6 goals and he looked to have been possibly injured because he missed about 2 weeks in the middle of the season. Soph Simon Garno(guessing Coach's son) leads the team with 10 assists. This has to be RIT's best season since joining the league and best season in a while under longtime Head Coach Bill Garno. Still Ithaca is no slouch and they have struggled a bit recently I am sniffing an upset of sorts and predicting a draw...1-1

Vassar at RPI----Night game in Rensselaer. Big game as if Vassar wins it final 2 league games against RPI and Ithaca they will win the LL Regular Season. Still a draw will not kill them here as they would still have a possibility of winning it all if Hobart and SLU draw on Saturday. Adam Clinton got his charges pumped on Saturday and am guessing had them working their tails off to defeat Ithaca in OT. Vassar just has more talent as I do not see how RPI scores in this match.
2-0 Vassar

Union at Bard----The most meaningless league game of the year. Union showed well up at Clarkson on Saturday and had a real solid chance to win the game in the 108th minute but ultimately failed. Still a well played match especially with only pride on the line. Union lays an egg and Bard steals a victory.
2-1 Bard

I'm on board with Mr. Right's picks for RIT/Ithaca draw and Bard upset of Union.
If RIT were at Ithaca, I'd be picking the Bombers to win.  Ithaca is a good side and has rounded into form quite well as season has gone along.

Am aware that RPI is playing for its tournament life.  Vassar had trouble with Hobart's defense this past weekend (save for the 2' after Hobart scored and Vassar put one by their GK) and see RPI's defensive posture as more of the same. I'm thinking this a chippy tie or perhaps RPI gets some luck and finds a goal.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 24, 2017, 04:29:10 PM

Quote from: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 02:02:50 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 24, 2017, 01:41:40 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 11:56:45 AM
Quick Hit Predictions for Wednesday:


This has to be RIT's best season since joining the league and best season in a while under longtime Head Coach Bill Garno.


In RIT's inaugural season in the LL (2011), they actually made it to the LL Championship game, where Vassar prevailed 3-2.




Ahh did not realize that...I was thinking back when RIT was a force in Upstate NY and made the NCAA's a couple times in the mid 2000's


I was forgetting that RIT even made the NCAA tournament in the 2000's.  Looking it up, they made it in 2000, 2001 and 2004 and not since. Not sure how much of a force RIT was in those years (early 2000's). They were qualifying out of the Empire 8 before Stevens joined. They ahd good but not great records in 2000 and 2001, but barely over .500 in 2004.

RIT was a force in the early/mid 80's through the early/mid 90's when Doug May was coach.  Us older Messiah fans remember RIT as a power as the Falcon's second Final Four trip was to RIT in 1988.  RIT lost in the final that year to UC San Diego (who beat Messiah in the semifinals), a year after being knocked out at the quarterfinal stage by UNC-Greensboro and a year before losing in the semifinals to Greensboro at the Final Four hosted and won by E-town.  RIT also made the Final Four in 1984 and 1992.  Four Final Fours in nine years--not a bad stretch at all.  And who knows, if not for a couple of schools who would shortly thereafter move up to D-II and D-I, maybe they would have taken home a national title one of those years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 04:31:37 PM
Yes Doug May was a very good coach and well liked by his peers..I actually believe he recently passed but not sure on that
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 24, 2017, 05:01:02 PM
I've wondered why RIT, with almost 14,000 undergrads, does not challenge for the LL title every year . . .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 05:08:49 PM
Well I might have overstated that RIT was a force in the mid 2000's but they were a good side. Let us remember that the Empire 8 was no slouch during this time as Ithaca and Elmira were good squads and RIT always played a very challenging non-conference schedule if I remember correctly. You are correct that with 14000 undergrads they should be better
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 24, 2017, 05:52:36 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 05:08:49 PM
Well I might have overstated that RIT was a force in the mid 2000's but they were a good side. Let us remember that the Empire 8 was no slouch during this time as Ithaca and Elmira were good squads and RIT always played a very challenging non-conference schedule if I remember correctly. You are correct that with 14000 undergrads they should be better
After 2001, RIT struggled to stay above .500 in the 2000's, never again winning more than half their games.  They were up and down in the conference in the 2000's and usually poor out of conference, typically in the .300 to .500 range (you're correct that they played a challenging non-conference schedule that usually included St. Lawrence, Hobart, Hamilton, and Rochester). Elmira was pretty bad from 2002 to 2008 with nine or more losses each year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 24, 2017, 08:10:32 PM
RIT v Ithaca is interesting as this is the best RIT team since 2011 but it is an absolute do or die game for Ithaca.  I go with RIT 1-0 as they have been very good in the month of October.  If Mr. Right is right, and he usually is, then unless Ithaca can stop Vassar in Poughkeepsie knowing full well that all hope is lost for a LL tourney berth, Vassar wins the LL regular season title with a win over RPI and either Hobart or SLU doesn't get the bye.  RPI has not beaten Vassar since 2014 which is motivational for the Engineers.  Vassar embarrassed them in the LL semis last year which is also motivational.  Vassar has not been a good road team this year although I agree that they are a better team than RPI either at home or on the road.  l am going to go with Mr. Right and choose skill over intangibles.  Vassar 1-0.  I also go with Bard over Union for purely selfish reasons, namely, I would like Union to schedule good non-conference opponents in the future and if they go winless in the LL I think that will be an incentive to do so.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 25, 2017, 10:06:50 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 24, 2017, 08:10:32 PM
I also go with Bard over Union for purely selfish reasons, namely, I would like Union to schedule good non-conference opponents in the future and if they go winless in the LL I think that will be an incentive to do so.

Coach Guinn's track record from a few years ago demonstrates that he is (or was) not afraid of scheduling strong non-conference opponents.  My son played for him from 2008-11 (where he was all-conference and team MVP in 2011), when the program was in a good stretch of very strong teams:  winning the LL in 2006, reaching the LL championship game in 2008 and 2009, going 5-1-1 in LL in 2010 before elimination on PKs in LL semis to RPI, consistently receiving a top 25 ranking at some point each year, averaging 12 wins per year, and annually having several all-conference representatives (including S. Jansen, All-American).  In those years, Union played an annual scrimmage against Oneonta, and scheduled annually several of Babson (while it dominated NEWMAC), Plattsburgh, RIT (before it joined LL), Geneseo (and one or two other SUNYAC teams such as New Paltz and Oswego), William Patterson or NJCU out of NJAC, RIC, and one or two Empire 8 teams.  Obviously, Union is not as strong since Jansen graduated in 2013, but, although I have no personal knowledge, I suspect something else is dictating the current weaker non-conference schedule.

That being said, I, too, hope that the program beefs up the non-conference schedule in the future, as playing cupcakes clearly is insufficient preparation for the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 25, 2017, 12:09:23 PM
Hobart loses, 1:0, to Utica College in a midweek game. 
Huh?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 25, 2017, 12:15:46 PM
Probably pretty meaningless game as Hobart may already have been AQ or bust, but that head-scratching loss guarantees that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 25, 2017, 12:48:02 PM
Head scratching is kind.  Utica does not have an E8 win this year while Hobart is undefeated in the LL and has the highest current regional ranking of any LL team.  This is a down year for the league and has been noted by others only the AQ will get through.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 25, 2017, 01:03:36 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 25, 2017, 12:48:02 PM
Head scratching is kind.  Utica does not have an E8 win this year while Hobart is undefeated in the LL and has the highest current regional ranking of any LL team.  This is a down year for the league and has been noted by others only the AQ will get through.

Vassar was ahead of Hobart in last week's Regional Rankings.  With the head-to-head win, Hobart may have moved ahead of Vassar this week if not for the loss to Utica.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 25, 2017, 01:32:31 PM
UCSA rankings came out yesterday and Hobart had leap-frogged Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 25, 2017, 01:34:31 PM
I was referring to the crucial NCAA regional rankings that feed into the at-large selections.  I was, however, jumping the gun on the impact of the loss to Utica, as that, of course, will only be seen in next week's rankings.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2017, 02:00:36 PM
Big Big Games.


I have to go with Ithaca winning this one 1-0 over RIT.
Ithaca cannot afford to lose and RIT has some wiggle room.

As for Vassar and RPI.

Wow, this one is tough to pick.
I can make an argument for either team winning.
Vassar is coming off a deflating loss and RPI is coming off an inspiring win so I have to go with the hot team here and a 2-1 win for RPI.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 25, 2017, 05:22:48 PM
EAST REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - October 25, 2017

Rank

School
. Div. III .
Record
. Div. III .
SOS

 . R-v-R .
. Non-Conf. .
SOS
. Overall .
Record
. Prev. .
Rank
1.
Cortland State
15-2-0
0.585
4-1-0
0.570
15-2-0
2
2.
Oneonta State
12-1-2
0.593
2-1-2
0.596
12-1-2
1
3.
Buffalo State
13-1-3
0.562
3-0-1
0.511
13-1-3
3
4.
Rochester
9-2-2
0.582
2-2-1
0.536
9-2-2
4
5.
Hobart
7-3-4
0.582
1-2-1
0.616
7-3-4
8
6.
Stevens
9-5-2
0.588
1-4-0
0.630
9-5-2
7
7.
Brockport State
10-4-3
0.571
1-2-1
0.526
10-4-3
--
8.
Vassar
8-4-2
0.564
0-2-1
0.581
8-4-2
5
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 05:27:11 PM
Wow Hobart's win over Vassar was huge and that horrific GK'ing error by Hobart to lose to Cortland was also huge..A loss today v Utica places a nail in their Pool C hopes coffin...Jeez...A draw v Cortland and a win today v utica and they would have been looking quite decent
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 08:02:41 PM
RPI and Vassar scoreless about 10 minutes left until Halftime..



looks like RPI is going all in on facility upgrades..That might help recruiting in 5-10 years...

http://www.rpiathletics.com/news/2017/10/24/football-institute-launches-1-billion-capital-campaign.aspx

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 08:08:28 PM

This is quite impressive...SLU just total domination in LL..

MEN'S SOCCER
1995-96   St. Lawrence University
1996-97   St. Lawrence University
1997-98   St. Lawrence University
1998-99   St. Lawrence University
1999-00   St. Lawrence University (National Champions)
2000-01   Hamilton College
2001-02   St. Lawrence University
2002-03   St. Lawrence University
2003-04   St. Lawrence University
2004-05   Hamilton College
2005-06   St. Lawrence University
2006-07   St. Lawrence University
2007-08   Hamilton College
2008-09   St. Lawrence University
2009-10   Hobart College
2010-11   St. Lawrence University
2011-12   Vassar College
2012-13   Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
2013-14   St. Lawrence University
2014-15   St. Lawrence University
2015-16   St. Lawrence University
2016-17   Vassar College
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 08:25:41 PM
Scoreless first half between RPI and Vassar.  Looks like a pretty even game but not a whole lot of chances for either side.

And yea, it really puts into perspective SLU's success over the last 20 years when you put it all together in a list like that.  Program really wasn't that great before Durocher took over, just shows how phenomenal of a coach he was.  It also reminds me of a lot of what ifs with this program.  The 2008 squad was extremely solid but ran into the usual Amherst fixture in the NCAAs.  Same goes for 2010 and 2013 teams.  Just could never get over the hump.  Should have beat them in 2013.  Insane goal to tie it up in the last minute and then Brouk hit the post in overtime.   

Don't even get me going on the 2011 team.  Complete domination throughout the season and then the entire front 3 goes down with injuries.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2017, 08:32:21 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 08:08:28 PM

This is quite impressive...SLU just total domination in LL..

MEN'S SOCCER
1995-96   St. Lawrence University
1996-97   St. Lawrence University
1997-98   St. Lawrence University
1998-99   St. Lawrence University
1999-00   St. Lawrence University (National Champions)
2000-01   Hamilton College
2001-02   St. Lawrence University
2002-03   St. Lawrence University
2003-04   St. Lawrence University
2004-05   Hamilton College
2005-06   St. Lawrence University
2006-07   St. Lawrence University
2007-08   Hamilton College
2008-09   St. Lawrence University
2009-10   Hobart College
2010-11   St. Lawrence University
2011-12   Vassar College
2012-13   Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
2013-14   St. Lawrence University
2014-15   St. Lawrence University
2015-16   St. Lawrence University
2016-17   Vassar College

Killing me with this Mr. R.

I was part of that 2000 squad that failed to win the league.
Went 15-0-2 in regular season with scoreless ties to Skidmore and Vassar.
Hamilton won the league going 6-1.
Then we lost at home in dance to put an end to the 60 game unbeaten streak that began in '97.

Rough way to end the senior year, but still no regrets.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 08:34:12 PM
what years did you guys play again?

Saint of Old I know you played in 98 and 99 but what about you stlawus?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2017, 08:35:22 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 08:25:41 PM
Scoreless first half between RPI and Vassar.  Looks like a pretty even game but not a whole lot of chances for either side.

And yea, it really puts into perspective SLU's success over the last 20 years when you put it all together in a list like that.  Program really wasn't that great before Durocher took over, just shows how phenomenal of a coach he was.  It also reminds me of a lot of what ifs with this program.  The 2008 squad was extremely solid but ran into the usual Amherst fixture in the NCAAs.  Same goes for 2010 and 2013 teams.  Just could never get over the hump.  Should have beat them in 2013.  Insane goal to tie it up in the last minute and then Brouk hit the post in overtime.   

Don't even get me going on the 2011 team.  Complete domination throughout the season and then the entire front 3 goes down with injuries.

Durocher was a brilliant coach.
They don't make them like that anymore (Brandt, Dr. J, Coven, Doug May).

SLU was strong before he came along tough, in fact  SLU was one of the better teams in the 70s and early 80s but then had about a 10 year drought before Coach Durocher came along and it took him about 4 seasons to get his system in place.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2017, 08:49:49 PM
Gr8 game going on between RPI and Vassar, and even better streaming and commentary.
Very professional.

Here we go Engineers!!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 08:51:09 PM
Yeah the current Head Coach at Salem State Don Goodwin's father was the longtime Head Coach before Durocher and was very well liked by his players and pretty successful..Not to the extent that Durocher was obviously but he did well up there for years...


Looks like RPI is holding strong v Vassar 0-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2017, 09:02:08 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 08:51:09 PM
Yeah the current Head Coach at Salem State Don Goodwin's father was the longtime Head Coach before Durocher and was very well liked by his players and pretty successful..Not to the extent that Durocher was obviously but he did well up there for years...


Looks like RPI is holding strong v Vassar 0-0

Or as I like to put it, "Coach Goodwin had many Good wins" :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:15:23 PM
Just tuning into RPI v Vassar and RPI still holding strong as it is 0-0 with about 10 minutes left
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 09:15:59 PM
I was more referring to that 10 year drought before Durocher took over, but yes you are right, Goodwin had great teams in the 70s.

I didn't play for the program, I'm just an alum.  I grew up in Russell which is about 20 minutes from Canton so I was always a fan of the program and went to most of the games growing up.  It got harder once I started playing in HS but I went to as many games as I could.  I didn't actually attend SLU my first 2 years but ended up transferring and got my degree there (in fact at the first school I attended  Dave Brandt was the coach and I was able to try out with the rest of the walk ons, but that was a bust as you can clearly see :p)  Just a faithful alum and fan of the Scarlet and Brown.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:19:26 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 09:15:59 PM
I was more referring to that 10 year drought before Durocher took over, but yes you are right, Goodwin had great teams in the 70s.

I didn't play for the program, I'm just an alum.  I grew up in Russell which is about 20 minutes from Canton so I was always a fan of the program and went to most of the games growing up.  It got harder once I started playing in HS but I went to as many games as I could.  I didn't actually attend SLU my first 2 years but ended up transferring and got my degree there (in fact at the first school I attended Dave Brandt was the coach and I actually managed to get a walk on trial, but that was a bust :p)  Just a faithful alum and fan of the Scarlet and Brown.


+k...love the passion...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:23:54 PM
RPI and Vassar 0-0 heading to OT
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:32:00 PM
Just looking at the LL Standings if this RPI / Vassar result holds and RPI gets a draw it will set up an interesting scenario. RPI and CLarkson would be on 11 pts with Skidmore at 8 pts but playing at Bard Saturday. RPI and Clarkson will be playing at Clarkson Saturday and a draw will get both of them into the tournament...Could be Austria and West Germany of the 1982 World Cup where both teams needed just a draw to advance to the 2nd Round of the World Cup and they got that draw after both teams showed no willingness to attack or really play for that matter. It was like 90 minutes of just knocking the ball around..It was a bad situation for FIFA...Not saying RPI and Clarkson would ever do that but just thought I would bring up the situation...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:32:00 PM
Just looking at the LL Standings if this RPI / Vassar result holds and RPI gets a draw it will set up an interesting scenario. RPI and CLarkson would be on 11 pts with Skidmore at 8 pts but playing at Bard Saturday. RPI and Clarkson will be playing at Clarkson Saturday and a draw will get both of them into the tournament...Could be Austria and West Germany of the 1982 World Cup where both teams needed just a draw to advance to the 2nd Round of the World Cup and they got that draw after both teams showed no willingness to attack or really play for that matter. It was like 90 minutes of just knocking the ball around..It was a bad situation for FIFA...Not saying RPI and Clarkson would ever do that but just thought I would bring up the situation...

Pretty sure that game is the reason why the last games of the group stages are all played at the same time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 09:39:27 PM
RPI with two HUGE chances to win it but both shots go wide.  Don't think it's going to get any better than that. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:40:22 PM
RPI misses a golden chance to win it in the 1st OT but Vassar defender just deflected the shot and then on the ensuing corner RPI player gets to a nice rebound and cracks one inches wide...0-0 heading to 2nd OT
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:41:16 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:32:00 PM
Just looking at the LL Standings if this RPI / Vassar result holds and RPI gets a draw it will set up an interesting scenario. RPI and CLarkson would be on 11 pts with Skidmore at 8 pts but playing at Bard Saturday. RPI and Clarkson will be playing at Clarkson Saturday and a draw will get both of them into the tournament...Could be Austria and West Germany of the 1982 World Cup where both teams needed just a draw to advance to the 2nd Round of the World Cup and they got that draw after both teams showed no willingness to attack or really play for that matter. It was like 90 minutes of just knocking the ball around..It was a bad situation for FIFA...Not saying RPI and Clarkson would ever do that but just thought I would bring up the situation...

Pretty sure that game is the reason why the last games of the group stages are all played at the same time.

Yea you are correct
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:44:38 PM
So SLU needs a Vassar loss to clinch the 1st Round Bye tonight? However if they win on Saturday they win the league?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 09:49:32 PM
If RPI-Vassar ends with a draw SLU needs to beat Hobart for 1st place.  If Vassar win tonight SLU needs to beat Hobart and have Vassar lose Saturday. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:51:30 PM
Jeez after seeing this Vassar GK a bit tonight and against Hobart I am not so sure about how far Vassar can go with him in net..He makes some questionable decisions back there.From what I have seen in OT and the 2nd Half RPI has had the more dangerous chances.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:55:17 PM
0-0 Final between RPI and Vassar...Both teams have tons to play for on SAturday..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 09:55:44 PM
RPI grinds out a scoreless draw with Vassar.  I would say they deserved to win that game.   This now makes for an interesting Saturday.   As long as Hobart at least draws with SLU they win the league and SLU gets a first round bye only if Vassar loses.  If SLU wins they win the league only if Vassar doesn't get 3 points.   I fully expect Hobart to play for a win and not sit back because of AQ implications.  After the loss against Utica they're definitely out but getting a couple more wins to end the year might help them.  Either way it's going to be a very interesting weekend. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 10:00:59 PM
Yea that SLU at Hobart match is must see tv...I originally thought the match was in Canton but it is actually in Geneva...I think it is a 2pm start time so I am expecting to Hobart to play SLU straight up as well as there should be no reason to sit in as they will want to win that game...Luckily, Hobart has a fantastic stream
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 25, 2017, 10:03:07 PM
Here are the playoff scenarios as I view them:

SLU -- wins the league with a win and a Vassar draw or loss (I'm not sure what the first tie-breaker is, but Vassar won head-to-head)

Hobart -- wins the league with a win or a draw and a Vassar loss or draw

Vassar -- wins the league with a win and a SLU-Hobart draw (and also possibly a SLU win, depending on the tie-breaker)

Saturday should be prime viewing!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 25, 2017, 10:05:39 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:32:00 PM
Just looking at the LL Standings if this RPI / Vassar result holds and RPI gets a draw it will set up an interesting scenario. RPI and CLarkson would be on 11 pts with Skidmore at 8 pts but playing at Bard Saturday. RPI and Clarkson will be playing at Clarkson Saturday and a draw will get both of them into the tournament...Could be Austria and West Germany of the 1982 World Cup where both teams needed just a draw to advance to the 2nd Round of the World Cup and they got that draw after both teams showed no willingness to attack or really play for that matter. It was like 90 minutes of just knocking the ball around..It was a bad situation for FIFA...Not saying RPI and Clarkson would ever do that but just thought I would bring up the situation...

Clarkson and RPI may not play to kill the clock, but conservative play is highly likely given the circumstances.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 10:06:15 PM
That is good news Ommadawn because Vassar needs SLU and Hobart to draw that should mean Hobart will play straight up against SLU. A draw willl only hurt them
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 25, 2017, 11:08:00 PM
Catching up on the LL box scores/play-by-play tonight, I was impressed with RIT's thumping of Ithaca, whose hot streak seems to be tapering off.  Bard got their best LL offensive game of the season only to be denied by Union's best offensive showing of the season.  I was initially puzzled by RPI's domination of the shot count down the stretch, but that can probably be explained by the big holes in Vassar's lineup (Novas, Gilmore, and Olsson account for more than 50% of Vassar's offense, and the latter two are key to the Brewers' defensive effort).  I'm not sure if the injury or illness bug has struck, but depth is especially important near the end of the season!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2017, 10:07:01 AM
Good catch on the missing Vassar players.  Don't know what was going on there and the second half payback to Mrlik for last year's hattie may have some long term effects.  Hobart now has control--with a win it wins league.  Unless Vassar is still way short handed they beat Ithaca at home.  They hold the tie-breaker with SLU.  A Hobart-SLU draw or SLU win puts Vassar at number 1.  Clarkson is in with the tiebreaker over Skidmore.  Last spot is between RPI and Skidmore.  A Skidmore win and RPI loss leaves them tied with a tie between themselves and almost identical records against the top LL teams.  Don't know who gets in at that point.  On the award side of the house RPI's Bisson is a lock for ROY.  POY is either Okoye or Dede.  DPOY--anyone's guess.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 26, 2017, 01:10:31 PM
Re: DPOY, I've not been overly impressed by GK play across the LL teams I've watched. 

However,  both Skidmore (14 GA) and Hobart (12 GA) have had great defensive seasons (and at least two of the 12 GA at Hobart are GK mistakes). I'm thinking that Greening (Skidmore), Escamilla (Hobart) and Critchlow (Hobart) have been incredibly important as central defenders for their teams. 

Defense was unsteady early on for SLU and much better of late.  Something has stabilized along their back line and I'm impressed with their #23 (Macnamee).

Three of these four play each other this weekend.
If its a goal-a-paloooza in Geneva, well, good for Skidmore's Greening :)

And, yes, maybe I've a soft spot for rugged and committed central defenders.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 26, 2017, 02:38:28 PM
Great game yesterday between Vassar and RPI.
This is a very competitive league.
It seems that any of the top 7 can beat each other on any given day.

This is how the league season should end with Hobart and SLU going at each other for the top prize.
The defending champions looking to edge both out.
No one wanting to play the hottest team in the league (Tigers).
Knights and Engineers are looking to win the whole thing and dance.

This 6 team thing worked out really well in the inaugural season.

Tough on Ithaca who really did have a shot and showed themselves to be a quality side.
Best league game all year was Bard holding Bart to a tie which is now making for a consequential climax to the season.
BTW people, Skidmore is still in this thing!!!
I wont write them off yet, especially due to my soft spot for Okoye.
The kid played with Beek and they will both go down as two of Skidmore's and the Leagues best. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 28, 2017, 09:34:47 AM
Last day predictions anyone?  From easiest to hardest:  1) Skidmore v. Bard, 3-0 Thoroughbreds--Akoye gets a brace to lock up POY but in the words of Carole King, it's too late baby for Skidmore although they really tried to make it; 2) Vassar v. Ithaca, 2-0 Vassar who wins LL regular season (see below) as Ithaca doesn't savor spoiler role and is deflated after RIT whalloping; 3) RIT v. Union, 3-1 Tigers who continue to keep the momentum going into the playoffs; 4) RPI v. Clarkson, 0-0 as both teams' offensive woes continue; and 5) Hobart v. SLU, 1-1 as Hobart's Utica loss and SLU's domination by Vassar means that neither of these teams merit the regular season crown and rightly they end up not.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 28, 2017, 11:21:08 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 28, 2017, 09:34:47 AM
Last day predictions anyone?  From easiest to hardest:  1) Skidmore v. Bard, 3-0 Thoroughbreds--Akoye gets a brace to lock up POY but in the words of Carole King, it's too late baby for Skidmore although they really tried to make it; 2) Vassar v. Ithaca, 2-0 Vassar who wins LL regular season (see below) as Ithaca doesn't savor spoiler role and is deflated after RIT whalloping; 3) RIT v. Union, 3-1 Tigers who continue to keep the momentum going into the playoffs; 4) RPI v. Clarkson, 0-0 as both teams' offensive woes continue; and 5) Hobart v. SLU, 1-1 as Hobart's Utica loss and SLU's domination by Vassar means that neither of these teams merit the regular season crown and rightly they end up not.

I'll bite:

Agree that Skidmore wins over Bard, 1-0.  Not sure Skidmore can score three goals in a game, but also not sure if Bard will commit to defending.
Agree that Vassar takes it to Ithaca, and a 2-0 scoreline seems about right.
Agree with RIT over Union, even as 3-1 seems like a little bit of a nod to Union.
Differ in that RPI beats Clarkson, 1-0 (in OT)....  Both will be committed, but RPI is just a bit better at this point in the year.
Differ in that Hobart beat SLU, 2-1 (again in OT).  The Saints are just not as sound in the back as in past years and Hobart has been looking at this game for a week (and forgot that Utica was not).... I would say 2-0, but Hobart always gives up a goal if they score first. Perhaps a (muted) bias here.

Wishing all the seniors and their families the best day possible, knowing that four teams are done after this game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 28, 2017, 04:16:38 PM
Make it the second time in 3 years SLU loses at Hobart in overtime off a penalty.  Looked like a cheap penalty call to me but I may be biased.  Outside of 2009 this may be the worst regular season SLU performance since the early 90s.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 28, 2017, 04:23:36 PM
I happened to catch it...it was a foul...it was in the box but not sure I would have given a PK in that situation..SLU looks to be tied with RIT and they tied in the regular season..what the next tie breaker? Same goes for RPI and Skidmore at the bottom
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 28, 2017, 04:24:26 PM
SLU won the head to head with RIT so they get the 3 seed and will play Skidmore in the first round it seems.  RPI loses out entirely. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 28, 2017, 04:27:10 PM
I'm pretty sure RPI is out, Skidmore is in. First tiebreaker is head-to-head, that was a draw. Second tiebreaker is record against conference opponents in descending order.

Hobart won the league. Skidmore drew with Hobart, RPI lost to Hobart. So Skidmore gets the sixth seed. Right?

So Hobart and Vassar sit tight while St. Lawrence hosts Skidmore, and RIT hosts Clarkson.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 28, 2017, 04:28:47 PM
I got mixed up with standings but yes it appears you're right.  RPI misses the LL tourney and appears Skidmore grabs the last spot. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 28, 2017, 05:02:31 PM
That is kind of a crazy 2nd Tiebreaker..I mean obviously head to head BUT record in descending order? That is the first time i have heard of that...I suppose it makes sense..I would think league wins would mean more...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 28, 2017, 05:45:46 PM
Startling statistic--after Bard the team that gave up the most goals this year is???? SLU.  Now the LL commissioners don't have to worry about picking a POY from a team that didn't make the playoffs.  Skidmore in by the skin of their teeth.  Good call on that Saint.  I had written them off, especially when RPI went up 1-0 on Clarkson. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 30, 2017, 12:12:44 PM
Yes it's time for notes on a scorecard end of regular season addition and congrats to the Statesmen and Herons for winning the daily double and hosting in Geneva.  After a weekly summary in a new feature I will add my year-end awards.  Later this week I will add my starting XI.  In order of finish: 1) Hobart—Cardiac kids do it again, this time in 2 OT with regular league championship on the line and after being the beneficiary of two huge calls; 2) Vassar—Dodges Ithaca's spoiler bid but as a team that hasn't shown well on the road will suffer from this year's new format having all semifinal and final fixtures at Hobart; 3) St. Lawrence—straight red on first half sub gifts Hobart the crown and year-long inability to defend with three tough games to get a championship means that SLU very likely will be missing the NCAAs for the first time in what seems forever; 4) RIT—This is one scary team that has its offense clicking on all cylinders at home and on the road and draws a weaker team in No. 5 than No. 6, at least on paper; 5)  Clarkson—what a huge confidence building result with a playoff berth in hand to come from behind and break RPI's hearts; 6) Skidmore—given up for dead the team with the most talent in the league is resurrected by Clarkson into the playoffs; 7) RPI—Excruciating loss for team that obviously knew that Skidmore had taken care of business, and in a year of keeper weakness generally, from looks of video replays sophomore goalie did them no favors on either of the goals; 8) Ithaca—Coach had them ready to play but problem with soccer is that one marking lapse on a long ball into the box can end up being the decider; 9) Union—Having avoided the ignominious distinction of no league wins, rolls over for RIT in final contest; and 10)  Bard—Has a a lot of holes to fill next year, no bigger than the quality striker they graduate in Shenberger.  Awards—POY—Okoye;  DPOY--H. Critchlow (love defenders who can score especially in a weak goalie year); ROY--Bisson; CSOY—Clarkson, RIT share.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 30, 2017, 12:50:59 PM
Don't count SLU out just yet.

I am not guaranteeing a dance, but stranger things have happened in soccer than St. Lawrence winning three straight games.

In all honesty, I cannot say they are the best team in the league this year, but I think this team can beat anyone.
As a fan of the program, I am looking forward to entering post season as under dogs. A role the team relished in 2005 in knocking off favorite U of R.

In my pre-season predictions, I had SLU finishing 3rd and Hobart/Vassar top two.
Also had Skidmore getting in as well.

My surprise was that all LL teams did so poorly out of conference (except for Union ofcoarse).

This will be a wild ride.
I think my POY is still Dede, as I had thought preseason, but if Skidmore beats SLU, I will happily switch to Okoye.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 30, 2017, 02:02:31 PM
Thanks, Deutschfan, for excellent summary agree on your player and coaching staff awards (for now, but lets see who moves forward to break the ties)!

Skidmore is a scary sixth seed, and SLU will be missing a key defender from the red card at Hobart. 
Still, t I think SLU moves on, 1:0, to see Vassar on Saturday.

RIT gets by Clarkson 2:0 and faces Hobart, again.

I'll wait to guess the weekend games after the first round results....

Good luck to all four teams and all the best to the seniors and their families.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 30, 2017, 02:37:58 PM
Bart--Totally agree that Skidmore is a really tough number 6.  Here are my playoff predictions: 1) SLU over Skidmore (toughest call); 2) RIT over Clarkson; 3) SLU over Vassar; 4) RIT over Hobart (second toughest call); 5) SLU over RIT.  This is not a sop to Saint or the rest of the SLU supporters (homers) on this board.  I look at SLU's losses against Vassar and Hobart being avoidable without the defensive blunders and believe that SLU's tradition will carry the day.  Can't believe I am writing this.  Plus Saint was prescient about Skidmore making the playoffs a few days ago so you have to go with the hot handicapper.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 30, 2017, 11:17:57 PM
Just saw this graphic posted by the LL twitter handle. Does the "Finak 4: Nov 4/5" imply that Hobart hosts both semis...? This would be a throwback to the 2008 days. Brutal for Vassar if that's true, no playoff game in Po-Town.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 31, 2017, 07:32:19 AM
Quote from: SandyMac on October 30, 2017, 11:17:57 PM
Just saw this graphic posted by the LL twitter handle. Does the "Finak 4: Nov 4/5" imply that Hobart hosts both semis...? This would be a throwback to the 2008 days. Brutal for Vassar if that's true, no playoff game in Po-Town.

Yes, semis and final are hosted by Hobart.
Hobart plays 4/5 winner at 11, Saturday
Vassar plays 3/6 winner at 130, Saturday
Final is Sunday for 2.

William Smith soccer is also hosting playoffs and there is a home football game -- busy sports weekend in Geneva....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 31, 2017, 09:00:46 AM
Quote from: Part_Bart on October 31, 2017, 07:32:19 AM
Quote from: SandyMac on October 30, 2017, 11:17:57 PM
Just saw this graphic posted by the LL twitter handle. Does the "Finak 4: Nov 4/5" imply that Hobart hosts both semis...? This would be a throwback to the 2008 days. Brutal for Vassar if that's true, no playoff game in Po-Town.

Yes, semis and final are hosted by Hobart.
Hobart plays 4/5 winner at 11, Saturday
Vassar plays 3/6 winner at 130, Saturday
Final is Sunday for 2.

William Smith soccer is also hosting playoffs and there is a home football game -- busy sports weekend in Geneva....

Last time this happened, they ended up using a separate field (down near football stadium, not sure what it's normal purpose is). Hope that isn't the case this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 11:39:47 AM
RIT hosting Clarkson in a 11am Quarterfinal right now..Strange starting time but I'll take a 11am Tuesday start on a day off..1-1 5 min to Halftime
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 12:17:29 PM
RIT looks to be in a 4-4-2 and Clarkson a 4-2-3-1. Still 1-1 about 30 minutes left. Clarkson not afraid to attack with 5 but both teams playing cautiously. RIT coming on strong the last 5 minutes as they have missed a couple good chances and some fine GK'ing by Clarkson's GK has kept this game level.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 12:22:17 PM
RIT taking it to Clarkson midway thru the 2nd Half and are looking for that go ahead goal that must be surely coming. Clarkson on its heels here 2nd Half
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 12:34:34 PM
Clarkson holding strong as RIT does have a massive wind advantage 2nd half. Both teams try to play a bit but Clarkson backs overpass and are susceptible to a bad giveaway..

RIT parents just merciless on this poor ref...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 12:38:34 PM
RIT gets a predictable goal that was coming all 2nd Half with about 12 minutes....I missed it so I cannot describe but 2-1 RIT with about 10 left..Clarkson has a tall task ahead of them going into this wind. They MUST send everyone forward now
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 12:53:28 PM
RIT finishes off Clarkson 2-1..2nd Half was all RIT but they did have the wind advantage. RIT looked more athletic and skilled than Clarkson from what I saw the 2nd Half. They have enough talent to win the LL so their match v Vassar will be interesting. I wonder if Hobart will take the early game or late game?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2017, 01:02:02 PM
It was a good finish to the upper shelf from the top of the box.  Based on obnoxiousness of RIT fans I hope that Hobart feed microphone is about as far from the stands in Geneva as possible. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 01:08:42 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 31, 2017, 01:02:02 PM
It was a good finish to the upper shelf from the top of the box.  Based on obnoxiousness of RIT fans I hope that Hobart feed microphone is about as far from the stands in Geneva as possible.


LOL that was BAD...Calling the ref an idiot, one parent saying " let's write down this guy's name and report him". Yea I am sure that will go as planned. These parents are clueless. The ref made a few mistakes like all refs but he kept up with the play an did his job which is all you can really ask...Also, Hobart has 2 announcers and they are not near parents and it is a fantastic stream..Should be all set.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2017, 01:14:40 PM
Great.  I was thinking all of these fans must have been from Manhattan given their intensity.  RIT plays Hobart next.  Only saw the second half but Clarkson did not look good.  That they achieved the 5th seed is somewhat miraculous.  Good job by the coaching staff.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 31, 2017, 04:26:34 PM
Nice win for SLU to live another day.  In control for most of the game, Skidmore only had 1 or 2 decent scoring chances.  Rare year where SLU beats Skidmore twice in one season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2017, 05:02:32 PM
Home teams hold serve.  As seems to be the story for the league this year, no defense for keeper error.  McNamee has a nice strike but Skidmore's keeper could have done a lot of things other than deflecting it into the net.  SLU deserved the win.  Gonna be quite the soccer party in Geneva as the RIT, SLU, Vassar, and Hobart/William Smith men's and women's teams will be congregated there for the next round. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 31, 2017, 05:12:47 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 31, 2017, 04:26:34 PM
Nice win for SLU to live another day.  In control for most of the game, Skidmore only had 1 or 2 decent scoring chances.  Rare year where SLU beats Skidmore twice in one season.

I was unable to watch the game, unfortunately, but appreciate your assessment because the stats appear not to tell the story.  Skidmore had a decided advantage in shots (21 to 12) and shots on goal (10 to 3), but the Thoroughbred shots must have been from distance.  That's it for the Okoye/Santos era!  The path is clear for Dede to be MVP.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 31, 2017, 05:40:34 PM
There were a lot of blocked shots and weak shots that bounced into Smith.  Okoye had 2 or 3 good looks on goal that resulted in really weak efforts.  Smith wasn't really tested. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2017, 05:42:59 PM
Don't know if the voters take into account the finals performances.  I think the votes are already in by Saturday.  At this point there are at least 4 players that statistically had better years than Dede: Okoye, Novas, Kouroupas, Garno, and a fifth, H. Critchlow who leads the regular season champs in scoring despite being a defender and would get my vote if Okoye wasn't in the mix.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 31, 2017, 06:36:10 PM
Statistics means nothing.
A Baller is a baller and like the supreme court justice said "when you see it you know it".
What the SLU #6 has is POISE ON THE BALL. Better than anyone in the entire league now or anyone I remember playing against or with.

Again, I am not saying he is good because he has 6 game winning or tying goals this year, scoring is not his thing.
He controls the game. Not many players have this ability.
This kid was ROY first team in 15
First team in 16
Most definitely will be first team this year as well.

But again, accolades and statistic makes not the player, just watch each game he plays and you will see objectively that this kid is a notch above most players.

I normally qualify statements tat there may be a SLU bias inserted, but in this case absolutely not, straight TRUTH.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 01, 2017, 02:34:57 PM
Filled with exuberance after picking the first two games right, the following is my starting XI.  I have picked a player from every team with two defenders from Hobart as befits the regular season champs whose success was predicated on their defense.  While the league typically loads up the first team with players from the higher finishers, this year a case can be made for a representative of each of the teams and as Saint noted the SLU representative is a lock:
FWDS--Novas-Vas; Shenberger-Bard
MFS--Dede-SLU; Okoye-Skid; Lichtman-Ith; Garno-RIT
DS--H. Critchlow-Hob; Escamilla-Hob; Bisson-RPI; Homan-Clark
G--Weitzman-Uni
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 01, 2017, 03:11:29 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 31, 2017, 05:02:32 PM
Home teams hold serve.  As seems to be the story for the league this year, no defense for keeper error.  McNamee has a nice strike but Skidmore's keeper could have done a lot of things other than deflecting it into the net.  SLU deserved the win.  Gonna be quite the soccer party in Geneva as the RIT, SLU, Vassar, and Hobart/William Smith men's and women's teams will be congregated there for the next round.

Tip of the hat to Deutschfan's calls for first round games, but we diverge for semis and finals:

1100 game on Saturday, Hobart 1:0 over RIT (in OT, because it takes 30 shots for Hobart to score and getting 30 shots against RIT will take some time...). 
1330 game, SLU 2:1 over Vassar (SLU defense rounding into form very nicely, Vassar will struggle to find space for their creative efforts).

Bit of a homer tilt to Hobart (as RIT could easily have won the first time the played), but Hobart has given up 13 goals all season (three on keeper error) and will be very tough at home.

I'm going to pick Hobart to win championship (FULL homer bias), 1:0 again.
This said, if it becomes an RIT v. Vassar, I go RIT (2:1).
If final is RIT v. SLU. I go with SLU 1:0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 01, 2017, 04:58:39 PM
EAST REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - November 01, 2017

Rank

School
. Div. III .
Record
. Div. III .
SOS

 . R-v-R .
. Overall .
Record
. Prev. .
Rank
1.
Cortland State
15-2-0
0.580
4-2-0
15-2-0
1
2.
Oneonta State
13-1-2
0.593
2-1-2
13-1-2
2
3.
Rochester
11-2-3
0.586
3-2-2
11-2-3
4
4.
Buffalo State
14-2-3
0.561
2-0-2
14-2-3
3
5.
Plattsburgh State
12-6-1
0.597
1-5-0
12-6-1
--
6.
Hobart
8-4-4
0.573
1-2-1
8-4-4
5
7.
Vassar
9-4-3
0.561
0-2-1
9-4-3
8
8.
Brockport State
10-6-3
0.583
0-3-1
10-6-3
7
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 02, 2017, 08:56:21 AM
Looks like only one team from LL will get a bid this year.

Also looks like curtains for anyone not named Cortland, Oneonta or Plattsburgh in terms of a possible Pool C bid out of the SUNYAC.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 02, 2017, 09:20:11 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 02, 2017, 08:56:21 AM
Looks like only one team from LL will get a bid this year.

Also looks like curtains for anyone not named Cortland, Oneonta or Plattsburgh in terms of a possible Pool C bid out of the SUNYAC.

Doesn't Buffalo State look pretty good too?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Golden_Fan on November 02, 2017, 10:04:18 AM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 02, 2017, 09:20:11 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 02, 2017, 08:56:21 AM
Looks like only one team from LL will get a bid this year.

Also looks like curtains for anyone not named Cortland, Oneonta or Plattsburgh in terms of a possible Pool C bid out of the SUNYAC.

Doesn't Buffalo State look pretty good too?

Buff State lost to Geneseo in their playoff game and Plattsburgh just beat Cortland yesterday to move on to the finals. I would think that Plattsburgh moves ahead of them
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 02, 2017, 12:44:55 PM
I'd love to see a Hobart-SLU rematch in the final. Seemed like a competitive game, despite the 45' red to SLU. 11v11 without 2 PK's and that's going to be a hell of a contest!

Big games on Saturday though...SLU owes Vassar some payback!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 02, 2017, 01:40:38 PM
Ahh after watching RIT on Tuesday I would not count them out of winning it. Granted I only saw the Half where they had a huge wind advantage at their backs and Clarkson looked dead after 55 minutes and did not get a sniff on net for the last 35 minutes BUT STILL..They have something going on and they are athletic enough to compete for LL Title..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 02, 2017, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: Golden_Fan on November 02, 2017, 10:04:18 AM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 02, 2017, 09:20:11 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 02, 2017, 08:56:21 AM
Looks like only one team from LL will get a bid this year.

Also looks like curtains for anyone not named Cortland, Oneonta or Plattsburgh in terms of a possible Pool C bid out of the SUNYAC.

Doesn't Buffalo State look pretty good too?

Buff State lost to Geneseo in their playoff game and Plattsburgh just beat Cortland yesterday to move on to the finals. I would think that Plattsburgh moves ahead of them

There is no criteria that accounts for what round of your conference tournament you were eliminated.  And from following and studying the at-large selections over the past 10 years, I have not seen evidence to support the idea that the committee gives extra weight to conference tournament games.  To them it's just another game(s) that contribute to the overall record, overall SOS, and RvR.

Buffalo State's resume is actually helped by Plattsburgh being ranked as it gives them another win vs. a ranked team.  So here's how they compare right now:

Buffalo State
14-2-3 (.816) D-III record is final
0.561 SOS
3-0-2 RvR w/ addition of win over Plattsburgh St. who is now ranked

Plattsburgh State
13-6-1 (.675) D-III record w/ one game left vs. Onoenta
0.597 SOS will improve with games against Cortland and Oneonta
2-5-0 RvR w/ Cortland win, will change with Oneonta result

So, if Plattsburgh doesn't win the SUNYAC AQ and are competing with Buffalo St. for an at-large berth, they will have lost or tied (PK elim) in the final.  Let's assume a tie.  That makes their resume look like this:

Plattsburgh State
13-6-2 (.667) D-III record assuming tie with Oneonta in final)
0.597 SOS will improve with games against Cortland and Oneonta
2-5-1 RvR w/ win over Cortland and assuming tie with Oneonta in final

In that case, . . .

Buffalo St. hold the advantage in D-III record
Plattsburgh St. holds the advantage in SOS
Buffalo St. holds the advantage in RvR
Buffalo St. won the head-to-head match
Common opponents of note:
   Buffalo St. tied Oneonta, Plattsburgh St. lost to and tied Oneonta
   Buffalo St. beat Cortland, Plattsburgh St. lost to and beat Cortland
   Buffalo St. tied Brockport, Plattsburgh St. lost to and beat Brockport
   Slight edge to Buffalo St.?
Misc:
   Buffalo St. beat Rochester; Plattsburgh St. lost to Johns Hopkins

Looking at all that, I'm not sure what moves Plattsburgh St. head of Buffalo St.  Buffalo St. lost at an inopportune time, but it doesn't undo everything else they accomplished this season.  Just like Plattsburgh's tournament run doesn't erase all their losses during the regular season.  Buffalo St. beat the teams ranked #1, #3, #5 in the region, tied the team ranked #2.  And Buffalo St. won the head-to-head.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 02, 2017, 04:42:18 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 02, 2017, 01:40:38 PM
Ahh after watching RIT on Tuesday I would not count them out of winning it. Granted I only saw the Half where they had a huge wind advantage at their backs and Clarkson looked dead after 55 minutes and did not get a sniff on net for the last 35 minutes BUT STILL..They have something going on and they are athletic enough to compete for LL Title..
All of the final 4 teams have a shot at winning the tournament....I am a bit biased , but Hobart is very hungry right now and tastes the post season and it helps to be on familiar turf, but a bad/good bounce , a well timed header, the perfect corner kick, a slip of the goalie will separate these closely matched teams. It should be 2 good games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2017, 12:10:34 PM
Hobart goes up 1-0 on a fantastic run by Derek Acheampong..Made a really nice off ball run after a pass to his teammate and turned on the jets got a nice return pass and slotted it home. RIT has had a few really good looks but have not been able to finish. 1-0 Hobart early 2nd Half
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2017, 02:36:15 PM
With his skills it is amazing Derek doesn't have more goals this year.  If Vassar holds lead SLU's epitaph for the season as well as its string of NCAA appearances will be "Couldn't clear a ball against Vassar."
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 04, 2017, 03:31:50 PM
Vassar v. Hobart for AQ, loser will not be dancing.
Hobart lucky to get out of the first half of their game without being behind, but dominant in second half.
Vassar finds that first goal and then makes it stand up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2017, 06:42:38 PM
Cmon Saint Nation, lets pull for that Pool C :)

But in all seriousness:
Big props for what is this year the two best teams in the league, Brewers and Statesmen.
When a team beats you twice in one season, it means they are better than you.
Vassar are a great team, that is well coached and has been tough for quite some time. They would be great representatives for our league.
The Statesmen are no joke either, and they just took out, what I consider, the best story of the 2017 LL, RIT, what an announcement they made, the Tigers definitely roared this season.

Hobart had a rough start to the year, only a great team can recover from such a start and then dance, so if they do I think they will be planning on really getting their boogie on.

Anyway, great work boyz. It is really a shame that the loser of Tomm's game could not get bid because there will be two NCAA caliber  teams playing for the LL title this year.

P.S.
Memo to SLU, if you keep possessing the ball with your defenders in your defensive half of the field then:
1. You give teams too much time to reshape and be ready for your attack
2. (as we saw today) You could lose it deep nd pay serious consequences as a result.
3. Possess and attack hard is a better option.

I have faith in Coach T and his vision for the program, the man is already a legend and has a good plan.
Next year is a big one for the program.

This will be the best SLU senior class in recent memory, but they must have help to overcome what is a powerful LL final 4 teams.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 05, 2017, 07:37:19 AM
A solid win by Hobart against a talented RIT team......can they persevere against Vassar today? Too bad the loser probably won't make the NCAAs....good luck to both teams
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 05, 2017, 11:11:41 AM
My miss on both teams in the finals certainly gives me the right to predict the outcome of today's final.  Vassar 2, Hobart 1.  Vassar repeats as champions and puts in its NESCAC application. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 05, 2017, 11:12:08 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 04, 2017, 06:42:38 PM
Cmon Saint Nation, lets pull for that Pool C :)

But in all seriousness:
Big props for what is this year the two best teams in the league, Brewers and Statesmen.
When a team beats you twice in one season, it means they are better than you.
Vassar are a great team, that is well coached and has been tough for quite some time. They would be great representatives for our league.
The Statesmen are no joke either, and they just took out, what I consider, the best story of the 2017 LL, RIT, what an announcement they made, the Tigers definitely roared this season.

Hobart had a rough start to the year, only a great team can recover from such a start and then dance, so if they do I think they will be planning on really getting their boogie on.

Anyway, great work boyz. It is really a shame that the loser of Tomm's game could not get bid because there will be two NCAA caliber  teams playing for the LL title this year.

P.S.
Memo to SLU, if you keep possessing the ball with your defenders in your defensive half of the field then:
1. You give teams too much time to reshape and be ready for your attack
2. (as we saw today) You could lose it deep nd pay serious consequences as a result.
3. Possess and attack hard is a better option.

I have faith in Coach T and his vision for the program, the man is already a legend and has a good plan.
Next year is a big one for the program.

This will be the best SLU senior class in recent memory, but they must have help to overcome what is a powerful LL final 4 teams.

Having watched both of yesterday's games in person, must say I was surprised by the lack of urgency from SLU once they went down.  Seemed like they were waiting for someone to do something special?   Vassar played a smart game -- these teams know each other well -- and stymied SLU.  Long ball soccer requires physicality up front, and SLU's strength seemed to be in the (often bypassed) midfield that was relegated to defending and delivering the ball to the back line. Late in the game, Dede started lots of runs on his side of mid-line ... and Vassar defended in waves.

The Hobart game was curious because RIT should have been ahead by half, but missed on two chances (one shot went right to the keeper -- unlucky for Vassar/lucky for Hobart, the other shot got be the keeper and #7's (Binjo Emmanual) amazing recovery run prevented it from rolling in).  Then Hobart played as good a half as they have this year.

Am keen to see the rematch of Vassar and Hobart given how close it was two weeks ago. As Saint of Old notes, it is very hard to beat the same team twice in one season.  Weather will be a factor (rain and high winds predicted), both teams will be tired, and there are enough nicks and bruises on both teams to lead me to suspect a relative unknown, and a strange play or two, will decide the game.

My heart says wins Hobart 1:0 in OT.
My head says Vassar wins 2:0 (the second goal is a product of Hobart throwing everything forward and giving up a counter attack).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 05, 2017, 12:58:50 PM
I watched second semi and totally agree with your assessment.  Once down SLU was content to pass it around the back, a tactic that played right into Vassar's hand with a goal advantage.  Because of the camera positioning there was a lot of close shots of SLU's right back, the tall Spanish freshman who received the red card against Hobart.  He's big but that's about it.  He would collect the ball with space and take his time rather than quickly attacking up the right side even though that has been Vassar's Achilles heel as shown in the Wesleyan and Hobart games.  Both McNamee and Brandell disappeared in this one.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 05, 2017, 02:59:14 PM
Hobart with a goal in each half to go 2-0 up on Vassar. "The little team that can't score got two yesterday and two today," says the announcer. I've only watched about 40 mins of this one, but the Statemen have been absolutely dominant.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 05, 2017, 03:09:35 PM
Hobart running riot here, almost makes it three, but the man running in on goal doesn't pass to his wide-open counterpart, and it's out for a corner.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 05, 2017, 03:11:20 PM
Vassar starting to create some chances, but Hobart has defended well.

Ooh, off the post! Then wide! This game isn't over yet. 15 left.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 05, 2017, 03:18:27 PM
Hobart settles down and almost ices it with 9 minutes left -- fantastic diving save by the Vassar 'keeper.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 05, 2017, 03:25:38 PM
Vassar with a man sent off. Not long left now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 05, 2017, 03:29:18 PM
Hobart wins 2-0 over Vassar, first LL title since 2009 (and first NCAA bid since 2011). A deserved win on the day, and Hobart seems to be deserved LL champions. Congrats to the Statesmen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 05, 2017, 03:42:54 PM
Good for Hobart.  They definitely deserved that.  Looking forward to them making a run in the tournament. 

And I must say it was a disappointing end to SLU's season to say the least.  I commend Brandell for coming back as a graduate student to fulfill his last year of eligibility, but he never fully recovered from is broken leg.  Program has had to replace multiple All-Americans over the last few seasons and it finally caught up to them.  I know they'll be back but hard not to be disappointed. 

Regardless it's always exciting to see other teams compete and I'll be pulling for the Statesmen in the tourney!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 05, 2017, 06:00:04 PM
Was at today's game and came away thoroughly unimpressed by Vassar.  Two red cards, both earned, and several yellows (including their coach, who was should have been sent off for what he was yelling at the refs.  As one of the spectators noted: he needs a time out chair).  Vassar are a good side, but completely fell apart under the speed and pressure and physicality of Hobart. Early in the season they were quite fluid and very creative going forward.  Today they were a shell of that and mostly made you wonder how they beat SLU.

Still not sure how Hobart score their goals (today's were both scored by a center back - #25).
However, 1/4 of ALL their goals this year have been scored in the last three games....
Very impressed with Hobart's holding mids, Colmanares and H. Critchlow, and the four defenders, who overcome some weak GK play.
Very impressed with the willingness of the waves of Hobart wings and forward who all work hard, chase and press.
It seemed like hockey with three shifts of three who rotated through -- it can be very disruptive.

Am hoping that Hobart can go a few games into the NCAAs and atone for the league's poor out of conference play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on November 05, 2017, 06:39:17 PM
Isnt Hobart only the 2nd team to win both the regular season and tournament after SLU?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 05, 2017, 07:54:33 PM
Bart--I saw on the stream the hack that led to the second red, but what was the reason for the first?  If it was dissent that is unfortunate because it sounds like the coaching staff set the tone.  Vassar did look much better earlier in the year.  Their leading scorers in pre-season Van Brewer and Mrlik did not get a goal in 11 conference and tournament games.  Novas was the difference maker in league and as you saw he imploded in the final.  All hail the Hobart defenders.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 05, 2017, 09:11:28 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 05, 2017, 07:54:33 PM
Bart--I saw on the stream the hack that led to the second red, but what was the reason for the first?  If it was dissent that is unfortunate because it sounds like the coaching staff set the tone.  Vassar did look much better earlier in the year.  Their leading scorers in pre-season Van Brewer and Mrlik did not get a goal in 11 conference and tournament games.  Novas was the difference maker in league and as you saw he imploded in the final.  All hail the Hobart defenders.   

The Vassar player shoved the ref after the second goal.
It was a scrum and must have been very frustrating to see a ball come through the mess into the goal (and no fault to the Vassar keeper, who defended well all game).
Took me a few minutes to realize Vassar was down to 10 men ....

Having had at Vassar a bit, want to be sure to praise #22, Mrlik, for his quality of play as a holding mid.  NO goals were scored by Hobart in the run of play in large part to his ability to cover a lot of ground (on a muddy and increasingly slippery field) and clean up mistakes, break up attacks, and encourage his team mates. He did way more than 1/11 of the total work out there and was by far Vassar's best player today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 06, 2017, 09:35:08 AM
Quote from: stlawus on November 05, 2017, 03:42:54 PM
Good for Hobart.  They definitely deserved that.  Looking forward to them making a run in the tournament. 

And I must say it was a disappointing end to SLU's season to say the least.  I commend Brandell for coming back as a graduate student to fulfill his last year of eligibility, but he never fully recovered from is broken leg.  Program has had to replace multiple All-Americans over the last few seasons and it finally caught up to them.  I know they'll be back but hard not to be disappointed. 

Regardless it's always exciting to see other teams compete and I'll be pulling for the Statesmen in the tourney!

Oh Yes.
From now until the end of November I will be a Statesman fan.
These boys really deserve it, not only are they the first team to do the double since SLU, but, besides SLU they re the only team to go undefeated against the league all year.

These boys have played 11 league games and are undefeated.
This is an extremely strong team entering the Tournament.
I hope they make a good run and represent the LL well.
I am sure they will.
Also:
Shouts out to former Saint midfield general Bednarsky who is doing good work alongside a very good coaching staff at Hobart!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 06, 2017, 10:56:01 AM
Mostly a Statesmen Football follower, but this Statesmen soccer TEAM is something special .....I am not that knowledgeable on soccer but I was totally into the last few home games ....I was very impressed with the stamina, toughness ,speed  and skills of many of the players I watched both on the Hobart team and many of the opponents.... BTW, I watched much of the game above the Vassar goal...Vassar's goaltender was athletic and made some great saves..........this weekend was very special in Geneva with 2 Liberty League championships and opportunities to advance in the NCAA's ....very cool....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 06, 2017, 11:13:50 AM
Quote from: Part_Bart on November 05, 2017, 09:11:28 PM
Having had at Vassar a bit, want to be sure to praise #22, Mrlik, for his quality of play as a holding mid.  NO goals were scored by Hobart in the run of play in large part to his ability to cover a lot of ground (on a muddy and increasingly slippery field) and clean up mistakes, break up attacks, and encourage his team mates. He did way more than 1/11 of the total work out there and was by far Vassar's best player today.

I've not seen a ton of Vassar but Mrlik has been their best player when I've seen them. His brother Zander was a two-sport athlete at Vassar in soccer and baseball, graduating in 2013, and was the best player on the 2012 LL Champion Brewers team. I was very impressed with him when they played Brandeis in the second round -- he was an absolute beast at both ends of the field.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 06, 2017, 11:41:01 AM
That Brandeis game was a great game, despite the ending, and that was probably Vassar's best team from front to back.  Last notes on a scorecard as the LL season ends.  On the positive it was one of the most exciting LL seasons in a long time.  On the negative, some abysmal out of conference results even by the top teams.  Congrats to the Statesmen and Herons for being gracious hosts, not allowing their guests to take home any party favors, and making a hospitable environment for virgin goal scorers.  In order of finish: 1) Hobart—shows that you can go undefeated in the Liberty League, which is quite the feat, without a true target forward or consistent goal scorer as Weisban comes up from the back for his first two goals of the year to win the final; 2) Vassar—Wins the semi with Smith's first goal supported by good goalkeeping but offense sputtered in the finals in a wet rain as well as a rain of yellow and red cards; 3) SLU—For a team with a bunch of experienced upper classmen, their lack of offensive sync was inexplicable both in the quarters where they prevailed despite being badly outshot, and in the semis where they seemed content to pass the ball around the back as the clock clicked down to the end of their season; 4) RIT—Easily could have been up by two goals on Hobart after first half and will be very scary again next year on offense as they graduate Kouroupas but no one else from up top;  5) Clarkson—Will look to Hobart's playbook next year as true target forwards are not a necessity to win a championship; and 6) Skidmore—Season on the brink ends with a keeper error and a coaching staff wondering how to replace a boatload of seniors including Akoye, the league's top goal scorer.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 06, 2017, 01:56:37 PM
Hobart draws Buffalo State in the first round. Predictions?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 06, 2017, 01:57:27 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on November 06, 2017, 01:56:37 PM
Hobart draws Buffalo State in the first round. Predictions?

Hobart 2-1.

Very brash and not based on anything other than inclination, but you asked! ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 06, 2017, 02:08:58 PM
Depends on which Hobart team comes to play, the one that dominated Vassar or the one that lost to Utica.  Hopefully it is the former.  Hobart has tremendous team chemistry going into the Dance.  Vassar doesn't make the tourney as expected.  League showing against UAA, NESCAC, and top SUNYAC teams doomed any LL at large bids.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 06, 2017, 02:58:33 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 06, 2017, 01:57:27 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on November 06, 2017, 01:56:37 PM
Hobart draws Buffalo State in the first round. Predictions?

Hobart 2-1.

Very brash and not based on anything other than inclination, but you asked! ;)

Buff State leads SUNYAC in yellow cards (2/game), but not sure about fouls/game.
Hobart is second in LL (1.7/game) and average 12 fouls a game

Buff State has allowed 10 goals all season (0.51/game).
Hobart has allowed 13 (three to weaker teams, three are GK mistakes).

Buff State has 29 goals for (but struggled down the stretch to score).
Hobart has 25 goals for (and scored 1/3 of all goals in final five games, including losing to Utica 1:0).

I can't see three goals being scored if these teams play TWO games.

Head says Hobart 0:0 with PKs to Buff State (GK seems more solid).

All this said, I am going with heart for my pick (total homer): Hobart 1:0 in OT.

For those who like to see people 'get stuck in' this will be a game for you.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2017, 09:25:59 PM
Well we know how Hobart plays and their ability but has anyone seen this Buff State outfit? Does anyone know anything about them? To me it is a total mystery but yea you are probably right that it might be a 0-0 or 1-0 game based on those stats. The question is how did they play Oneonta and Cortland? I think I looked once and the stats were even but who knows how accurate that is.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 06, 2017, 09:42:23 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 06, 2017, 09:25:59 PM
Well we know how Hobart plays and their ability but has anyone seen this Buff State outfit? Does anyone know anything about them? To me it is a total mystery but yea you are probably right that it might be a 0-0 or 1-0 game based on those stats. The question is how did they play Oneonta and Cortland? I think I looked once and the stats were even but who knows how accurate that is.

Saw them against Rochester. They are a functional side that doesn't do much wrong, but I don't see them really dominating games, either. I think Hobart has the edge.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 08, 2017, 01:26:48 PM
http://saintsathletics.com/news/2017/11/7/dede-named-offensive-player-of-the-year-seven-from-mens-soccer-earn-all-conference-honors.aspx

Dede Gets the MVP.

I think it is a good choice.
This kid has unbelievable poise on the ball.

Please give this man a little help and watch him take the team to great heights.

Lets go Statesmen!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 08, 2017, 05:32:24 PM
Congrats to Mr. Dede.  His stats improved mightily after I called him out early in the season.  Reasonable minds could differ between him and Okoye.  However, did the LL powers not realize that SLU was a little better than a .500 team and was at most the 3rd best team in the conference?  How do they get the most LL all star recognition?  Can anyone make the case that after Okoye SLU had the best two forwards in the league?  Under that assumption, with the league's best player on the roster the coaching staff was the worst in the league. Augustine's 2 goals, 4 assists and 9 SOG are anemic.  He didn't even start 5 games.  Don't even know how you explain that to seniors Novas at Vassar or Kouroupos at RIT who shot the lights out during league season.  Last take, while Tyler Gilmore is an excellent defender and offensive threat, he is a junior who missed the last 3 games and had a couple of goals.  Hobart's Hunter Critchlow is a senior on the championship team with twice as many points and was the clear choice as a Hobart player should have received one of the three main awards.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: sideshowbob on November 11, 2017, 10:36:13 PM
Great 2-0 win for Hobart over buff state. Tough draw against Messiah tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 12, 2017, 10:16:29 AM
Quote from: sideshowbob on November 11, 2017, 10:36:13 PM
Great 2-0 win for Hobart over buff state. Tough draw against Messiah tomorrow.

Hobart's goal in the first half (a corner to far post and a header past defender by #26) changed the game.  Until then it was a very even game (and perhaps tilting towards Buffalo State -- who were fast and committing people forward). From then, Buffalo State had to attack more and left big spaces in midfied.  It was intense, and not as foul-laden as I'd expected.  But, the straight red to Buffalo State kid (who, sadly, went out of his way to stomp on a Hobart kid after the ball played away) limited what they could do.  Buffalo State had the better run of play for last 30 minutes, but did not have enough creativity to push past 10 Hobart players behind the ball.  Two great great saves by Buffalo State keeper kept score to 2:0.  The crossbar saved Hobart twice: the first from going behind 1:0, the second from having game tied 1:1. Hobart is stout on defense, but steady pressure on goal is problematic.

Moving on to today's affair, it will be interesting to see if the physicality of Hobart can offset Messiah's play.  It appears that Messiah struggle against physical teams (e.g., Lycoming), and Hobart disrupts fluid teams (e.g., Vassar).  My sense is that refs allow players a bit more leeway to play in tournament games, which will not benefit Messiah at first.

First goal wins this (as Hobart has had trouble coming back when down -- against lesser opponents -- and Messiah won't get two by Hobart's defense). Curious to see how fatigue, cold, and a mediocre turf surface contribute to the game. My head says Messiah will score first, and my heart stays with Hobart. Today, I'm going with heart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rudy on November 12, 2017, 11:35:05 AM
Quote from: Part_Bart on November 12, 2017, 10:16:29 AM
Quote from: sideshowbob on November 11, 2017, 10:36:13 PM
Great 2-0 win for Hobart over buff state. Tough draw against Messiah tomorrow.

Hobart's goal in the first half (a corner to far post and a header past defender by #26) changed the game.  Until then it was a very even game (and perhaps tilting towards Buffalo State -- who were fast and committing people forward). From then, Buffalo State had to attack more and left big spaces in midfied.  It was intense, and not as foul-laden as I'd expected.  But, the straight red to Buffalo State kid (who, sadly, went out of his way to stomp on a Hobart kid after the ball played away) limited what they could do.  Buffalo State had the better run of play for last 30 minutes, but did not have enough creativity to push past 10 Hobart players behind the ball.  Two great great saves by Buffalo State keeper kept score to 2:0.  The crossbar saved Hobart twice: the first from going behind 1:0, the second from having game tied 1:1. Hobart is stout on defense, but steady pressure on goal is problematic.

Moving on to today's affair, it will be interesting to see if the physicality of Hobart can offset Messiah's play.  It appears that Messiah struggle against physical teams (e.g., Lycoming), and Hobart disrupts fluid teams (e.g., Vassar).  My sense is that refs allow players a bit more leeway to play in tournament games, which will not benefit Messiah at first.

First goal wins this (as Hobart has had trouble coming back when down -- against lesser opponents -- and Messiah won't get two by Hobart's defense). Curious to see how fatigue, cold, and a mediocre turf surface contribute to the game. My head says Messiah will score first, and my heart stays with Hobart. Today, I'm going with heart.

It will be interesting to see how Hobart approaches this game. Will they play Messiah straight up or try to pack it in and hope to get a score off free kick or corner where Messiah is more prone to let up a goal.  Basically a bend but don't break approach? Looking at stats against Brandeis Hobart outshot them 18-10 so they do not appear to have sat back in that game. a 2-1 loss. I presume Brandeis was favored in that early season game.  So I don't think we will see a stat line like yesterday Messiah game. 25 shots to 3. We'll see soon enough.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Falconer on November 12, 2017, 06:53:27 PM
Messiah and Hobart have met only once, in the 2010 season opener in Grantham. Hobart dominated the game, outshooting the Falcons 19-10, winning 2-1 and knocking future POY Josh Wood out for the season. A very, very bad night for the Falcons, despite good showings by some freshmen.

Hoping for a better outcome tonight.

Buffalo State and Messiah also have an interesting history. Specifically, a great Haitian player at D1 Buffalo State (Jean-Arnold Tassy) later coached D3 Buffalo State and sent both of his highly talented sons to play at Messiah. Jake Tassy (older) was extraordinarily shift with the ball. I rank him with Dan Wagner (not the Dan Wagner who went into coaching) as the two flashiest Falcons I've ever seen. Chris Tassy was FAST, probably capable of under 50 seconds at 400 meters. Also very tall and highly skilled. An AA forward.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 13, 2017, 08:22:35 AM
Congratulations to the Statesmen for the win against Buff State and for a gutsy , intense performance against Messiah last night....Messiah is obviously a highly skilled side, but the Statesmen almost pulled it off on some chances.....my complements to both teams on keeping this fan on the edge of his seat the whole game...good luck to Messiah the rest of the way
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rudy on November 13, 2017, 10:30:57 AM
Quote from: Bartman on November 13, 2017, 08:22:35 AM
Congratulations to the Statesmen for the win against Buff State and for a gutsy , intense performance against Messiah last night....Messiah is obviously a highly skilled side, but the Statesmen almost pulled it off on some chances.....my complements to both teams on keeping this fan on the edge of his seat the whole game...good luck to Messiah the rest of the way

Hobart was very disciplined and organized. Definitely did what they had to do and came close to pulling out the win . Messiah  missed golden opportunity in first half as described well in the Hobart game recap.  But boy did Hobart come out on fire for the 2nd half putting Messiah on their heels.  A good 10 minute stretch where Messiah could not keep possession and Hobart took it to them.  Glad to get out of Buffalo with that win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 13, 2017, 08:09:57 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 13, 2017, 10:30:57 AM
Quote from: Bartman on November 13, 2017, 08:22:35 AM
Congratulations to the Statesmen for the win against Buff State and for a gutsy , intense performance against Messiah last night....Messiah is obviously a highly skilled side, but the Statesmen almost pulled it off on some chances.....my complements to both teams on keeping this fan on the edge of his seat the whole game...good luck to Messiah the rest of the way

Hobart was very disciplined and organized. Definitely did what they had to do and came close to pulling out the win . Messiah  missed golden opportunity in first half as described well in the Hobart game recap.  But boy did Hobart come out on fire for the 2nd half putting Messiah on their heels.  A good 10 minute stretch where Messiah could not keep possession and Hobart took it to them.  Glad to get out of Buffalo with that win.

Credit to Messiah for absorbing the pressure and imposing themselves on Hobart the last 20 minutes.  Credit to Hobart for staying true to its approach -- attacking the ball in midfield, chasing hard, absorbing pressure with the back line and holding mids, and hoping somehow to score a goal. It could have gone either way.

Next year awaits!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 08:25:19 PM
I missed this match but am curious how many real threatening chances that both teams had? This would have been a matchup of 2 completely different styles so I wanted to catch the game but was unable to. Any detailed game reports or highlights?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 13, 2017, 09:07:18 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 08:25:19 PM
I missed this match but am curious how many real threatening chances that both teams had? This would have been a matchup of 2 completely different styles so I wanted to catch the game but was unable to. Any detailed game reports or highlights?

Happy for others to comment, but from where I stood:

Messiah had lots of time on ball: they work for speed advantages on the wings, diagonal passes off central defenders, and when they get frustrated, pump long balls and hope.  Hobart was able to deflect these pretty effectively (though the effort wore at the back line and that was a factor, late).
In the first half, Messiah showed lots of energy and control in the middle of the field. They generated a few half-chances off of corners and often looked threatening as they started their attack but often fizzled in the offensive third with more passing than attacking.

In the second half, their ball control, speed, and willingness to push numbers forward began creating more seams.
Messiah began the half with a good shot to low corner that came from a set piece. Following this, they had to deal with Hobart's pressure and did not do much.
Then, in the last 20' Messiah created three good chances -- a high ball that went to the GK, a driving low shot that seemed to get in but was not ruled a goal, and shot off the the missed clear/scrum that won it. So, four solid shots and a few more half chances

Hobart sat back more than I'd seen, waiting for Messiah to come to mid-line before chasing. 
Their forwards and wings chased well and often disrupted the passing and ball control. In the first half Hobart had several counter attacks that began as midfield take-aways and ended up as half chances.

In the second half, Hobart took it to Messiah for about 15 minutes and created three great chances, including a header (or was it a shot, I don't remember) that went off the post and seemed like it went in, but was not ruled a goal; a zinger that went jusssst wide after a corner was partly cleared, and a play off a direct kick. So, three solid shots and a few more half chances.

Messiah are a great side, more complete a team than Rochester and Brandeis (fellow sweet-16ers).
This said, my homer eyes say that once Hobart adjusted to the realities of Messiah's speed and size, it was an even game, well played.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rudy on November 13, 2017, 09:27:57 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 08:25:19 PM
I missed this match but am curious how many real threatening chances that both teams had? This would have been a matchup of 2 completely different styles so I wanted to catch the game but was unable to. Any detailed game reports or highlights?

I think Hobart write up captures all the dangerous chances pretty accurately.  In particular first half West got behind defense and was one on one with goalie.  Goalie maybe did enough to force him to push the shot just wide..but I thought for sure that would be a goal.   This team has been resilient all year and found ways to win. Similar to how Tufts always seems to find a way to pull out the win ... including this past weekend in PKs.  So many timely goals this year they are the cardiac kids.

http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2017/11/12/hobart-soccer-9-falcons-get-late-goal-to-top-statesmen.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rudy on November 13, 2017, 10:17:05 PM
Bart, is Hobart roster always so large? I counted 34 on current roster. That's rather large.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 10:56:32 PM
Wow..After reading the recap Hobart's season ended with 40 seconds left in regulation. That is a real tough way to end. Besides a strange loss at Utica and a GK error to lose to Cortland, Hobart had not lost since the 1st weekend of the season to Brandeis. A great season for Hobart and to go without a loss in the LL is exceptional. Had the LL done better out of conference than they would have gotten maybe 2 Pool C's in such a weak year overall for bubble teams. Congrats to Hobart on a fin season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 14, 2017, 07:18:49 AM
Quote from: rudy on November 13, 2017, 10:17:05 PM
Bart, is Hobart roster always so large? I counted 34 on current roster. That's rather large.

I think they have expanded the roster for several reasons. Their pressing style means more subbing.
Their physical play seems to lead to more injuries. It is likely hard to be sure exactly how many of the recruits will actually matriculate. 

A quick check of other LL teams shows Union (35), RPI (33), RIT (31) andSkidmore (31) all with large rosters.  Clarkson lists 30, the rest roster 26-28.  I'm guesstimating that most teams lose two to three players a season due to injury, and a few more likely miss several games IN season for injuries.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Falconer on November 14, 2017, 09:15:28 AM
Quote from: Bartman on November 13, 2017, 08:22:35 AM
Congratulations to the Statesmen for the win against Buff State and for a gutsy , intense performance against Messiah last night....Messiah is obviously a highly skilled side, but the Statesmen almost pulled it off on some chances.....my complements to both teams on keeping this fan on the edge of his seat the whole game...good luck to Messiah the rest of the way

Yes, indeed, Hobart played an excellent game and nearly pulled it off. Both teams had a couple of terrific scoring opportunities that they failed to convert. Hobart dominated in stretches, Messiah in others. One of the ways to beat Messiah's one-touch game is to use lots of pressure, and that's what Hobart did--and very cleanly. They are talented, and they implemented their style with diligence, intelligence, and discipline. They absolutely belonged in the tournament and almost made the Sweet Sixteen. Congratulations to the Statesmen for a highly successful season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on November 14, 2017, 10:43:06 AM
Hobart represented the LL well, beat Buff St (3rd best SUNYAC team) and held their own against a good Messiah side. Last year they won the Regular Season for the first time since 2008, and this year repeated a Regular Season title adding the LL Playoff Championship and a good showing in the NCAA. Something is brewing there and wouldn't be surprised to see them outdoing themselves again next season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rudy on November 14, 2017, 10:58:41 AM
Quote from: Kick-grass on November 14, 2017, 10:43:06 AM
Hobart represented the LL well, beat Buff St (3rd best SUNYAC team) and held their own against a good Messiah side. Last year they won the Regular Season for the first time since 2008, and this year repeated a Regular Season title adding the LL Playoff Championship and a good showing in the NCAA. Something is brewing there and wouldn't be surprised to see them outdoing themselves again next season.

I noticed they had a few new England prep school players on the roster. That's a good way to get some talented international players as well. I wonder if they have a history of recruiting these players in just more recently.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on January 09, 2018, 04:06:29 PM
Hobart is a class program and will be quite a challenge for the rest of the league for years to come with their solid recruiting and coaching staff.
The Statesmen held their own and out played messiah for major parts of their game in the dance.

Team just needs consistent scoring and it will be tough to move them from atop the league standings.

Going undefeated in the league throughout the playoffs is not done often and they managed that feat with their feet.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on January 09, 2018, 04:07:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P86wWY077qY&t=1394s

St. Lawrence University Saints Football Circa 2000 (Defending Champs).

For Old School Saints and classic fans.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on January 10, 2018, 03:34:56 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on January 09, 2018, 04:07:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P86wWY077qY&t=1394s

St. Lawrence University Saints Football Circa 2000 (Defending Champs).

For Old School Saints and classic fans.


Ah the old video system at the beginning of the decade...Forgot about all that..Good Stuff Saint..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on January 10, 2018, 04:09:18 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on January 10, 2018, 03:34:56 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on January 09, 2018, 04:07:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P86wWY077qY&t=1394s

St. Lawrence University Saints Football Circa 2000 (Defending Champs).

For Old School Saints and classic fans.


Ah the old video system at the beginning of the decade...Forgot about all that..Good Stuff Saint..

Thanks Mr. R.
I will dig into the archives and try to locate the classic Williams @ SLU 1998 clash of the Titans on a brisk fall afternoon.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on January 11, 2018, 05:05:18 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on January 10, 2018, 04:09:18 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on January 10, 2018, 03:34:56 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on January 09, 2018, 04:07:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P86wWY077qY&t=1394s

St. Lawrence University Saints Football Circa 2000 (Defending Champs).

For Old School Saints and classic fans.


Ah the old video system at the beginning of the decade...Forgot about all that..Good Stuff Saint..

Thanks Mr. R.
I will dig into the archives and try to locate the classic Williams @ SLU 1998 clash of the Titans on a brisk fall afternoon.


Saint u wuld be my hero if you culd find video of that game. "A brisk fall afternoon"?????...lmao IT WAS A BLIZZARD...I just assumed there was no video of that game because of the year and the weather...I have said this many times but IMO that Elite 8 matchup of Williams at SLU in 1998 was the 2 best teams in the country that year. That game was the Final in my mind..After watching the 1998 NCAA Final 4 the other 3 teams were NO MATCH for SLU and Williams that year..Of all the dispoointments Williams have had in the NCAA Tournament over the years I really think 1998 was the worst..After "surviving" in Canton,NY that year Williams flat out should have won the 1998 NCAA Championship. 1st of all they should have hosted the Final 4 not OWU. They lost 1-0 to OWU on a bad GK'ing error by GK Ryan Spicer( Yes for all you political followers that is Sean Spicey's brother) and just could not score against OWU..They had them pinned in all game and were frustrated time and time again. The talent level was not even comparable. I mean they beat 1998 SLU who IIRC had basically the same team come back in 1999 the year they went undefeated and won the 1999 NCAA Championship and were absolutely unstoppable. Just a shame but it is what it is...Still I would love it if you could dig up that masterpiece...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on January 11, 2018, 07:37:18 PM
Saint---Seriously not trying to rub it in but maybe ask Durocher while you are on this other mission if he has a copy of the video of another classic 2004 NCAA Sweet 16 game between SLU v Williams which Williams were lucky to hold on and win in OT. 2 VERY good teams that day as well. That year was the year that Williams happened to catch SLU in one of their worst times in program history when a SLU player(sorry do not remember his name)was found dead the same week of the game. Just an awful situation and you could tell SLU's players were seriously distracted but even still they had numerous chances to win that match...Of course after such a great win by Williams over SLU on Saturday, Williams proceeds to dominate and lose to Geneseo St in the Elite 8. IIRC they had a goal called back but just another disappointing NCAA loss for Williams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on January 12, 2018, 07:44:27 AM
Wee needed to drop that game against Williams to have the PAIN necessary to win a title.
Williams is a class, class program.
They went to the finals in 1993 and then won it all in 95.
Infact I think the Seniors we played in Canton 98 were freshmen when Williams got their crown and it showed.
They played like Champions on the road against a team boasting a good defense and a future MLS starting goalie and came out on top.
Williams should have def won the title that year.
They were talented enough to do it.
I think that when a good team feels enough pain in a loss, it helps them go to the next stage themselves (@least in the 90s) :
Pistons got pissed after losing to the Celtics and then got their Chip.
Bulls got mad about losing to Bad Boys, then got their Chip.
Williams got theirs after heart breaking loss in Finals 2 yrs before.
SLU won the year after the epic battle against Williams in Quaters at home.
Messiah won a year after losing a heart breaker to to SLU in Quaters at home
Richard Stocton won 2 years after being hit hard by Wheaton in the Final 4.

Our game is 2 percent physical and 98 mental :)
In 98, SLU had just lost its 3x AA midfielder to season ending injury, but you are Right Mr. R.
The formation and personel adjustment  changes for the Williams game were kept for 99.

I will make it my mission to get that 98 game, seems I only have regular season games that year.
The SLU program has been taping games since early 90s.
Our film and scouting sessions were a big part of what the team did.

The 2004 game from what I hear was a classic also.
After my time though.
Two great teams battling in a game that tested them both.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on January 12, 2018, 08:55:50 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on January 11, 2018, 05:05:18 PM.After "surviving" in Canton,NY that year Williams flat out should have won the 1998 NCAA Championship. 1st of all they should have hosted the Final 4 not OWU. They lost 1-0 to OWU on a bad GK'ing error by GK Ryan Spicer( Yes for all you political followers that is Sean Spicey's brother) and just could not score against OWU..They had them pinned in all game and were frustrated time and time again. The talent level was not even comparable.

Thank you for this trivia gem, Mr. Right! 

"It was the biggest attendance of any match in NCAA Division III history. Period."  ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on January 25, 2018, 12:53:53 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on January 12, 2018, 08:55:50 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on January 11, 2018, 05:05:18 PM.After "surviving" in Canton,NY that year Williams flat out should have won the 1998 NCAA Championship. 1st of all they should have hosted the Final 4 not OWU. They lost 1-0 to OWU on a bad GK'ing error by GK Ryan Spicer( Yes for all you political followers that is Sean Spicey's brother) and just could not score against OWU..They had them pinned in all game and were frustrated time and time again. The talent level was not even comparable.

Thank you for this trivia gem, Mr. Right! 

"It was the biggest attendance of any match in NCAA Division III history. Period."  ;)

The funny thing is Ryan who is Spicey's brother is like the nicest kid you could ever meet. Super laid back and a tremendous athlete.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on January 25, 2018, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on January 25, 2018, 12:53:53 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on January 12, 2018, 08:55:50 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on January 11, 2018, 05:05:18 PM.After "surviving" in Canton,NY that year Williams flat out should have won the 1998 NCAA Championship. 1st of all they should have hosted the Final 4 not OWU. They lost 1-0 to OWU on a bad GK'ing error by GK Ryan Spicer( Yes for all you political followers that is Sean Spicey's brother) and just could not score against OWU..They had them pinned in all game and were frustrated time and time again. The talent level was not even comparable.

Thank you for this trivia gem, Mr. Right! 

"It was the biggest attendance of any match in NCAA Division III history. Period."  ;)

The funny thing is Ryan who is Spicey's brother is like the nicest kid you could ever meet. Super laid back and a tremendous athlete.

Ryan was the goalie for the back-to-back RI state champion Barrington HS (my hometown) teams from 1996-97, which were probably the best HS teams in RI history.  Those Barrington teams also had Brian Purcell (1980 birth year) who was a member of the 1997 U-17 U.S. World Cup squad.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on January 25, 2018, 04:29:02 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on January 25, 2018, 12:53:53 PM

The funny thing is Ryan who is Spicey's brother is like the nicest kid you could ever meet. Super laid back and a tremendous athlete.

That is too funny. They didn't have any trouble spelling his name in the Williams newspaper, did they? ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on April 09, 2018, 03:27:56 PM
Clarkson will have a new head coach this Fall. Great way to start some talk about the Liberty League 2018 season. What are some predictions and insights on the teams this Fall?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on May 23, 2018, 02:23:49 PM
I will have my predictions in a week or two when it is clear who exactly will be showing up on campus.

In the meantime, here is the schedule for the Scarlet and Brown in 2018

https://saintsathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on May 24, 2018, 12:57:23 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on May 23, 2018, 02:23:49 PM
I will have my predictions in a week or two when it is clear who exactly will be showing up on campus.

In the meantime, here is the schedule for the Scarlet and Brown in 2018

https://saintsathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc


Saint,


No offense but for a program like SLU that was unafraid to play anyone anywhere that schedule is weak sauce. Where did Plattsburgh St go? Ok they are in the Oneonta tournament but not playing Oneonta. SUNY Canton, Alfred, Heidelberg and most likely two very average teams in the Oneonta tournament. I only see Cortland as a good non-conference game on that schedule.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on May 24, 2018, 02:05:18 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on May 24, 2018, 12:57:23 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on May 23, 2018, 02:23:49 PM
I will have my predictions in a week or two when it is clear who exactly will be showing up on campus.

In the meantime, here is the schedule for the Scarlet and Brown in 2018

https://saintsathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc


Saint,


No offense but for a program like SLU that was unafraid to play anyone anywhere that schedule is weak sauce. Where did Plattsburgh St go? Ok they are in the Oneonta tournament but not playing Oneonta. SUNY Canton, Alfred, Heidelberg and most likely two very average teams in the Oneonta tournament. I only see Cortland as a good non-conference game on that schedule.
No offense taken.
Infact I pretty much side with your assessment. I do believe we are playing Oneonta though.
I would have liked to see a bit more competitive schedule and one or two more non-conference games as well.
This will be a big year for the boys.
We have an all time Saint in his senior year and a pretty deep  senior class, after last season though, I don't want to get my hopes up too much.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 26, 2018, 11:00:13 PM
I think SLU would have schedule a few more non-conference games but the current financial situation for the university is, let's say, less than ideal.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on May 29, 2018, 02:36:57 PM
Starting the 2018 season talk early.  Good.  This is a league that needs a revival after attaining one quality non-conference win last season for the entire league, Hobart's first round NCAA victory.  Of course that needs to be balanced with their loss to E-8 doormat Utica.  Perhaps you all can provide some insight on recruiting.  Ithaca and Vassar have posted their classes on their soccer twitter threads.  Ithaca is bringing in 15!!!!!  I am not familiar with any of the players coming into Ithaca or Vassar but perhaps some of you do as well as how some of the other teams are doing recruiting wise.  I wonder how many Clarkson recruits followed Coach Taylor to his alma mater. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on May 29, 2018, 02:46:25 PM
Interesting point about Coach Taylor's recruits. I wonder as well.

I know that SLU plans on bringing a few more than normal.
I think part of this is being weary of injuries that has affected the team in big ways recently.

The team will sink or swim on seniors as I have said before, but I would say this will likely be Coach Tosh's best recruiting class (on paper) since he has been at the helm.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on May 29, 2018, 03:02:26 PM
Saint:  At least on paper SLU has the most quality in its returning players with the two teams ahead of them, Hobart and Vassar, having lost some impact seniors.  Do you have a link to, or names of, the SLU recruits.  The Ithaca players have some USSDA experience while it looks like the Vassar players have none.  Not to be an USSDA snob but I think it is one important gauge of the strength of a recruit. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldNed on May 29, 2018, 03:33:44 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on May 29, 2018, 02:36:57 PM
Starting the 2018 season talk early.  Good.  This is a league that needs a revival after attaining one quality non-conference win last season for the entire league, Hobart's first round NCAA victory.  Of course that needs to be balanced with their loss to E-8 doormat Utica.  Perhaps you all can provide some insight on recruiting.  Ithaca and Vassar have posted their classes on their soccer twitter threads.  Ithaca is bringing in 15!!!!!  I am not familiar with any of the players coming into Ithaca or Vassar but perhaps some of you do as well as how some of the other teams are doing recruiting wise.  I wonder how many Clarkson recruits followed Coach Taylor to his alma mater.

Your post made me curious about Ithaca as one of my son's old teammates plays there, and I took a look at their twitter feed a bit.  Apparently Ithaca tied both D1 transitioning to D3 Hartwick and D1 Cornell 1-1 in spring games this year - great results for them, even if they were spring games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on May 29, 2018, 03:39:25 PM
I am not sure SLU has posted names in the last few seasons.
I think this might be the preference of our new head coach. Not sure I disagree with the approach.
Should be a diverse and international group of kids from what I am hearing.
Saints have always been an international team so its good to get there again.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on May 30, 2018, 06:07:34 AM
I would not be surprised if Clarkson lost a few recruits, but I would be surprised if many followed Coach Taylor.  I know the recruiting class that Coach Taylor assembled was his most geographically diverse with a couple players from the west coast.  I think it would be more likely that they would find another school closer to home than jump to Plattsburgh.  Clarkson is a very good school academically and is in the top tier for National Universities while Plattsburgh is in the bottom half for Regional Universities.  I just don't see a lot of players (unless they are solely focused on soccer) jumping from a highly rated private university to a lower tier state university, especially if you have to pay out of state tuition.  Also, the primary majors at each school don't align very well so I am not sure how easy it would be maintain the same major if they already had decided on one.  I have not met the new coach yet, but will see if I can get an idea of what has changed with regard to the incoming class if I do get the chance.  Also, a lot of these recruits would have likely been identified as juniors, when the new coach was an assistant to Coach Taylor, so they may already have some familiarity with him.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on May 30, 2018, 03:17:19 PM
All good takes.  Coach Taylor has such an infectious personality so I was curious.  There are certainly significant differences between the schools.  I spent a little more time looking at Ithaca's class.  Two transfers in addition to the 15 recruits, a Division 1 redshirt from Binghamton who has some USSDA experience, and Manhattanville's second leading scorer last year as a freshman.  Don't know how you integrate 17 new players.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on June 18, 2018, 05:28:29 PM
Clarkson's recruits are identified in their twitter feed.  No one familiar to me. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 09, 2018, 11:58:07 AM
Fortunately I have no problem talking to myself.  Thanks to Coach Clinton and RPI for scheduling the best opening day match in the LL, an away night game against Rochester.  After not making the playoffs last year the Engineers will have a chip on their shoulders.  Hobart's pre-season Portugese friendlies do not bode well for the rest of the league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 09, 2018, 08:41:59 PM
I'll be your Huckleberry.

I  agree RPI did have a mysteriously off year, but I expect them to get in this year.
I also agree that Hobart might be a bit too hot still for the rest of the league, we shall see.
SLU is coming into the season after a down year, but might have the best senior class in the last few years as well.

Is it pre-season yet?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 10, 2018, 11:46:18 AM
Almost.  With 5 returning all league players including 3 first teamers SLU has an edge over the rest of the league.  Can they keep up the the Hobart horde approach to soccer is the question.  With wave after wave of fresh legs Hobart was able to outlast many a team last year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 19, 2018, 03:05:59 PM
Hobart is by far the team to beat this season.
I should be noted that this team went undefeated in league play all the way through the playoffs which they won.

It is also my belief that they gave Messiah all they could handle last year.

Looking for a really good season overall in the league as Skidmore and RPI will look to bounce back and RIT and Vassar will get better as well.

My sources tell me that SLU has a solid recruiting class coming in, including the team's first Brazilian (if memory serves me right).


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 20, 2018, 05:47:30 PM
Hobart's freshmen are now posted.  With 28 coming back not much room so a small class.  At least one with DA experience.  It seems that Hobart and Ithaca have the strongest recruiting classes of the schools that have identified their recruits. Don't know about Skidmore and RPI bouncing back.  Skidmore loses one of the top scorers in the league and RPI had difficulty scoring all last season.  I agree RIT improves but Vassar has some big holes in the midfield to fill.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on August 28, 2018, 10:56:25 AM
Clarkson, Vassar and Bard rosters are up. Clarkson has eight freshmen, Vassar added 10, and Bard has 11.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 28, 2018, 04:50:53 PM
SLU's roster is up as well.  Tosh went international this year. 
Title: R5 e: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 29, 2018, 11:51:16 AM
Looks like Tosh is going to move to the Hobart horde approach to soccer given a 16 member first year class.  If you can't beat them....  I don't know how you convince 16 players, including many internationals, to come to a program with 9 returning starters including 5 all league players and a total roster size in the mid-30's.  Kudos on what must have been an excellent recruiting pitch.  Last year it appeared that physical size mattered, this year roster size.  There is also an emphasis on multi-sport players.  Historically some of the most impactful LL players have played multiple sports in HS.  This wouldn't be true for USSDA recruits but they are few and far between in this year's LL recruiting classes.
Title: Re: R5 e: Liberty League
Post by: Falconer on August 29, 2018, 02:08:29 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 29, 2018, 11:51:16 AM
Looks like Tosh is going to move to the Hobart horde approach to soccer given a 16 member first year class.  If you can't beat them....  I don't know how you convince 16 players, including many internationals, to come to a program with 9 returning starters including 5 all league players and a total roster size in the mid-30's.  Kudos on what must have been an excellent recruiting pitch.  Last year it appeared that physical size mattered, this year roster size.  There is also an emphasis on multi-sport players.  Historically some of the most impactful LL players have played multiple sports in HS.  This wouldn't be true for USSDA recruits but they are few and far between in this year's LL recruiting classes.

Same story (without foreign players) is true for Lycoming and (with foreign players) NPU. Their rosters are just huge, with tons of freshmen. It certainly seems to work for them, but it's hard for me to comprehend at the basic human level. Why would a guy want to stay with a program where he just doesn't get to play--I mean, not at all? Do most of those guys get meaningful minutes? How many of them (say) get to play in the latter part of the first half, with their team up just one goal? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on August 29, 2018, 02:25:25 PM
The SLU roster of internationals is really only 2.  The rest, while "from" abroad, attended US high schools.  Not as hard a sale if they're already here and want to stay here. 
Title: Re: R5 e: Liberty League
Post by: TyWebb on August 29, 2018, 02:30:30 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 29, 2018, 11:51:16 AM
Last year it appeared that physical size mattered, this year roster size.
I second your comment on roster sizes. I was perusing some rosters of teams where I know some of the incoming players. I was surprised to see the large size of their freshmen class: Keene St - 24, Babson -15, F&M - 14, Dickinson - 12, Gordon - 12 just to name a few. I'd be curious to hear from those who have followed D3 soccer more than me if roster sizes are expanding in general or this is just particular teams restocking from attrition?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on August 30, 2018, 07:48:04 AM
Ithaca: 33 on roster, 15 freshmen
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on August 30, 2018, 11:26:53 AM
Back in my day, we carried high 20's, but not all traveled and a few didn't even dress at home. But they were "on the team".  Our HS teams today are no different - varsity carrying 25, JV 27, Freshman 28.  As a coach, I don't know how you manage a training session with those numbers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 30, 2018, 02:43:53 PM
I guess there is no more time to wait before making league predictions.

Now we have  a 6 team LL Playoff field, I see it playing out like this.

#6- RPI- I picked them to make it last year and they did not, I just cannot see this program missing out on the playoffs in back to back years.

#5- Ithaca- Getting back two big pieces on offense who missed basically all last season should help, also they have a year to become adjusted to what is required in this tough league.

#4-  Vassar- Could be a tough year for the Brewers, but thier pedigree and recent form over the past few seasons means they wont drop any further than this.


#3- SLU- Cannot recall the Saints ever having this big a recruiting class, this should help them to bounce back after a seriously dissapointing , by their standards, season last year. Also have perhaps the best player in the league back for his senior year.

#2- RIT- This team seems to be hitting new heights. Had a bad start last season yet lmost turned it around at the end.


#1- Hobart- I feel like it has to be unanamous after such an incredible performance last year, but teams will be gunning for them this year.


Apologies to Skidmore, as I had RPI edge them by a hair.


Bard, Clarkson and Union will compete, but I just dont think they will have enough to make top 6.

Would love for one or two of them to prove me wrong, then the season would really be crazy.
Title: Re: R5 e: Liberty League
Post by: BillWill on August 31, 2018, 08:42:06 AM
Quote from: TyWebb on August 29, 2018, 02:30:30 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 29, 2018, 11:51:16 AM
Last year it appeared that physical size mattered, this year roster size.
I second your comment on roster sizes. I was perusing some rosters of teams where I know some of the incoming players. I was surprised to see the large size of their freshmen class: Keene St - 24, Babson -15, F&M - 14, Dickinson - 12, Gordon - 12 just to name a few. I'd be curious to hear from those who have followed D3 soccer more than me if roster sizes are expanding in general or this is just particular teams restocking from attrition?

As a reference, F&M had 12 freshman on roster last year. Four never played and did not return. They currently list only six sophomores on current roster. 50% attrition.
Title: Re: R5 e: Liberty League
Post by: soccerfan111 on August 31, 2018, 08:56:31 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 29, 2018, 11:51:16 AM
Looks like Tosh is going to move to the Hobart horde approach to soccer given a 16 member first year class.  If you can't beat them....  I don't know how you convince 16 players, including many internationals, to come to a program with 9 returning starters including 5 all league players and a total roster size in the mid-30's.  Kudos on what must have been an excellent recruiting pitch.  Last year it appeared that physical size mattered, this year roster size.  There is also an emphasis on multi-sport players.  Historically some of the most impactful LL players have played multiple sports in HS.  This wouldn't be true for USSDA recruits but they are few and far between in this year's LL recruiting classes.

An outside perspective makes me think that Toshack was either influenced by admissions (bring all of these kids in) or wasn't as active recruiting and decided to bring all of them in. Doing the latter, he can then trim down through kids quitting or cutting after the season.

From 2017's roster, there were 6 student-athletes that didn't return from the previous season (that could have). This is not all on Toshack but he needs to get guys that are going to stay 4 years. At the division 3 level (magnified at SLU b/c of location/academics/conference), it is important to get recruits that are a good fit for the program and will stay.

2016 to 2017- 14 out of 26 ; 12 did not return (1st year with Toshack's recruits having a chance to return)
2015 to 2016- 19 out of 23 ; 4 did not return (Toshack's first coaching year)
2014 to 2015- 21 out of 24 ; 3 did not return
2013 to 2014 - 22 out of 23; 1 did not return
2012 to 2013 - 16 out of 22 ; 6 did not return (3 of the 6 were rising SRs)
2011- to 2013 - 19 out of 24 ; 5 did not return

I'm rooting for them to turn it around this year. The trend isn't going the right way and need a big year to get the ship heading the right direction.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 31, 2018, 09:15:22 AM
RPI brings in a class of 12 with 4 freshman goalies that are 6'4 190 clones of each other.  With a returning junior starting captain goalie I just don't get it.  Maybe one of these 4 will get significant minutes over the next couple of years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 31, 2018, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 31, 2018, 09:15:22 AM
RPI brings in a class of 12 with 4 freshman goalies that are 6'4 190 clones of each other.  With a returning junior starting captain goalie I just don't get it.  Maybe one of these 4 will get significant minutes over the next couple of years.

Agreed that is overkill but I imagine RPI's returning GK's job is not very safe for Clinton to bring in 4 GK's. When I saw RPI last year I was not impressed by their keeper all that much. That being said for RPI to get back to the top of the LL and even NCAA's they have to have the best GK in the league. In Clinton's system like Wesleyan in Nescac it us imperative to have a serious GK back there. In Wesleyan and RPI's best seasons they had amazing keepers who would keep their respective teams in games by making incredible saves and sometimes making 15-20 saves in games v top competition. With RPI heading to UR tonight we will see soon enough. If UR would stop charging $ to stream games I would have tuned in a bit tonight.

I agree with Saints predictions and agree RIT finished the year strong but not sure they are #2 just yet. Hobart should be #1 but Griffin teams tend to fade when big expectations are levied on them. I agree Skidmore and Clarkson will drop off. Ithaca will jump up but my surprise pick just a bunch will be Union
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 03, 2018, 11:22:29 AM
Liberty League squads went 15-4-1 on opening weekend. Not too shabby. Half of those losses belong to RPI.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on September 03, 2018, 12:22:42 PM
I watched Vassar clobber the defending Skyline champ (and preseason #1 pick) Mount Saint Mary 4-0 on the road last evening. Vassar had about 97 percent of the possession it seemed like, and was bigger/faster/stronger/deeper/more skilled at all 11 positions.

The Skyline is not a strong conference at all, granted, and MSMC looked kinda awful, but Vassar seems pretty good. They have Manhattanville next, probably another trouncing, but 3 of their next 4 are against solid opponents - we'll learn about the Brewers then.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 03, 2018, 02:13:56 PM
I think Hobart's 1-0-1 start is a really good sign. They have brought back much of the talent that won the LL in 2017. The Salisbury W and St.Mary's draw are a good sign as they are both usually decent teams and more importantly Hobart usually starts slow under Griffin. It would be nice to see them rolling into conference play. Both Skidmore and Union lost to New Paltz State who have either really improved and maybe get to the Top 4 in the SUNYAC(SUNYAC Coaches did not predict that in their pre-season poll) or Skidmore and Union will be dropping off. We knew Skidmore graduated 2 studs that cannot be replaced right away so they would drop out of the Top 6 but I thought Union would be able to compete for that 6th Play-off spot. They still could I suppose but with Clarkson getting 2 HUGE wins this weekend over very average teams to start 2-0-0 I think they will jump both Skidmore and Union in 2018. Clarkson I thought might struggle a bit with their coach leaving but they were so young last year and did not graduate much if anything from their LL Playoff appearance in 2017 maybe they will make a go of it this season with the former Coach's recruits.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 03, 2018, 02:25:24 PM
I forgot RPI...Predictably they start 0-2-0 and were shut out in both games..They had 13 SOG Total in the 2 games and their opponents had 11. They did lose to 2 tough teams in Nazareth and Rochester but some things just never change. If RPI cannot get the ball in the net again this year their results will not change from 2017
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 03, 2018, 05:18:00 PM
Mr. Right--Good to have your insightful comments back again.  At this point we still don't have a clue about the overall strength of the league.  RPI played only ranked team and lost a heartbreaker.  Sometimes teams respond to such adversity by crushing their next opponent, others collapse in dismay.  RPI chose the latter.  As you noted RPI's strength has never been scoring goals which explains why they recruited 4 goalies???!!!! If the SUNYAC pollsters are right a bottom half team put two losses on mid-level LL teams.  Nothing much heard from the SLU crowd after a season opening two wins because against each opponent they were two goals worse than Clarkson.  Agree after last season's start that Hobart's start is encouraging.  Other than Hobart all of the remaining undefeated LL teams are still question marks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 04, 2018, 10:28:49 AM
Thanks...Out of curiosity I took a look at New Paltz roster and some highlights and they seem to me to be a decent outfit. They have been scoring goals at an impressive clip and I believe their #10 has 4 goals in 3 games already. They will play NYU and Vassar before SUNYAC play begins. They win those 2 games and they will start to get on their conference foes radar. Defensively it seems they leak goals so they need to clean that up but scoring 11 goals in 3 games against decent competition always gets my attention.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on September 04, 2018, 11:04:27 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 04, 2018, 10:28:49 AM
Thanks...Out of curiosity I took a look at New Paltz roster and some highlights and they seem to me to be a decent outfit. They have been scoring goals at an impressive clip and I believe their #10 has 4 goals in 3 games already. They will play NYU and Vassar before SUNYAC play begins. They win those 2 games and they will start to get on their conference foes radar. Defensively it seems they leak goals so they need to clean that up but scoring 11 goals in 3 games against decent competition always gets my attention.

I agree on your assessment of New Paltz so far this year.  They can be a hit or miss side, but are located in an ideal spot, with tons of excellent players within roughly an hour radius:  Hudson Valley, LaGrange, Capital District, etc.  Not everyone can go to Vassar, RPI, Union, Skidmore, or play D-1, so some years they are going to have a strong roster.  The Capital District has (or had at the beginning of this decade) a very strong U-23 summer league (in which one of my sons played for Bethlehem Knights), and the depth and quality of college age soccer players is/was impressive.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 04, 2018, 11:14:48 AM
Agreed..The Capital District has always been a soccer hotbed and you are correct that New Paltz should be able to get some pretty good players. The coach has also been successful as he started the program at Sage and after 5 years got them into the NCAA'S. He assisted former Williams GK Eric Watson when he was Head Coach at New Paltz 10 years ago in what was a some very strong New Paltz sides. Watson left for the Utica job and turned them around as well but has since disappeared since leaving Utica. Maybe he switched careers? Not sure
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on September 04, 2018, 11:21:40 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 04, 2018, 11:14:48 AM
Agreed..The Capital District has always been a soccer hotbed and you are correct that New Paltz should be able to get some pretty good players. The coach has also been successful as he started the program at Sage and after 5 years got them into the NCAA'S. He assisted former Williams GK Eric Watson when he was Head Coach at New Paltz 10 years ago in what was a some very strong New Paltz sides. Watson left for the Utica job and turned them around as well but has since disappeared since leaving Utica. Maybe he switched careers? Not sure

Did Watson's successor at Utica end up at Endicott?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 04, 2018, 01:51:40 PM
As a member of the SLU crowd, I will say that the team played well this weekend overall.  Controlled possession like they usually do.  The performance of this team this year will obviously rely on the veterans, as Dede and McNamee had a very good weekend.  The backline had a good game against Heidelberg, but struggled a bit against Alfred.  The backs looked fine, but I'm still a bit worried about CB when it comes to the counter.  The squad is deep this  year so we definitely haven't seen all the squad has to offer.  The freshman Zaccolaro impressed and I think he will play a big factor.  Augustine notched a nice goal so I hope he can keep pace this year.  He's started strong in years past and then tapered off halfway through the season.   Ultimately, like most years, if the team avoids any major injuries they will compete.  I still think Hobart is the team to beat.  Big game against Oneonta on Friday so I think we'll get a good sense of the squad after that one. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 04, 2018, 11:53:25 PM
Totally agree.
You cannot judge the SLU team until after the weekend game against Oneonta.

The senior class had a good weekend and will need to continue to do the same for the team to be good this year.

I thought it was interesting that Dede scored what I think is his 11th or 12th collegiate goal over the weekend and atleast 10 of those were game winners or game tying goals. In addition to being a dominant player he scores timely goals.

Clarkson really surprised me. I did not have them as making the LL playoffs but I might have to reassess aftter their start.

I dont think they have the most challenging schedule, but I look forward to what they will give the league this year.
RPI not looking too good at the moment, but that could change with a good weekend.

Union was rocked by New Paltz, but it is much better to lose to a good team than beating CupCake University 10-0 before conference play begins.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 05, 2018, 12:24:50 PM
Hope some Saints fans can give me some info on something I have noticed going thru their roster. I am very curious on #19 Soph Sam Sapner. Looks like a starting defender since his arrival last year but IMPRESSIVELY he was named a Captain as a SOPH. That is something I have not seen IN YEARS. You would see this sometimes in the 80's and early 90's or maybe on very weak teams where a SOPH might be their best player. St.Lawrence is a different animal and are such a solid program so for them to name this kid a Captain say's A TON about this kid. He must be a tremendous leader. Comments on him if any of you know this kid or at the very least what is he like as a player? 

BTW big weekend for SLU going down to Oneonta. Should be a good predictor of SLU's 2018 season and a good prep for Conference play. If they can beat Oneonta on the road that could be their biggest and most important win in a couple years.

One more thing I noticed SLU is playing 15 games this season. This seems like less games in years past. Anything on this?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 05, 2018, 08:25:50 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 05, 2018, 12:24:50 PM
Hope some Saints fans can give me some info on something I have noticed going thru their roster. I am very curious on #19 Soph Sam Sapner. Looks like a starting defender since his arrival last year but IMPRESSIVELY he was named a Captain as a SOPH. That is something I have not seen IN YEARS. You would see this sometimes in the 80's and early 90's or maybe on very weak teams where a SOPH might be their best player. St.Lawrence is a different animal and are such a solid program so for them to name this kid a Captain say's A TON about this kid. He must be a tremendous leader. Comments on him if any of you know this kid or at the very least what is he like as a player? 

BTW big weekend for SLU going down to Oneonta. Should be a good predictor of SLU's 2018 season and a good prep for Conference play. If they can beat Oneonta on the road that could be their biggest and most important win in a couple years.

One more thing I noticed SLU is playing 15 games this season. This seems like less games in years past. Anything on this?

As for Sapnar he played like a veteran last year as a freshman.   He was rather aggressively recruited and now we see why.  I noticed that he was a bit more special than most freshman during the game against Oneonta last year.  He's big, fast and composed on the ball.  The squad has been kind of starved for a true leader the last year or two and he simply filled a void with his hunger and determination.   He reminds me of Dan Hunt.   

As for the schedule, I'm pretty sure it has a lot to do with the budget.  The university's finances are not in the best shape right now, or at least they weren't during the last spring semester.  There was a huge donation made for Appleton renovations but I don't know if it's done anything to assuage the trepidation over the overall budget. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 04:19:55 PM
Big goal for SLU to go up 1-0 on Oneonta...Scrum off a corner and a failed clearance was all it took. Can they hold this?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 07, 2018, 04:20:59 PM
Should have had one before that.  Dede had a really nice shot on goal off a free kick but it looked like the keeper just got a piece to push it off the post.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on September 07, 2018, 04:30:47 PM
I like the looks of this SLU team, but man oh man does Oneonta play direct.  U-G-L-Y.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 04:36:01 PM
Ref calling it tight which favors SLU...Hate that set piece going backwards...get it in the box
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 04:39:48 PM
I always get the feeling SLU is in a 3-1-3-3 with a diamond but they all interchange so well it is really tough on the stream to see what they are playing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on September 07, 2018, 04:59:31 PM
I don't understand this Oneonta keeper Giordanno. Appears to have been pretty highly touted coming out of high school.  Spends freshman year at Loyola, Sophomore year at Buffalo and then transfers yet again to Oneonta Junior year.  What's the end game here? Clearly soccer was/is his priority. To each their own I guess.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:03:54 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on September 07, 2018, 04:30:47 PM
U-G-L-Y.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqn7vXeVCLE

Couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 05:14:46 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on September 07, 2018, 04:59:31 PM
I don't understand this Oneonta keeper Giordanno. Appears to have been pretty highly touted coming out of high school.  Spends freshman year at Loyola, Sophomore year at Buffalo and then transfers yet again to Oneonta Junior year.  What's the end game here? Clearly soccer was/is his priority. To each their own I guess.

How tall is he? He looks 5'9 at best but maybe its the stream
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on September 07, 2018, 05:18:04 PM
SLU looking calm and confident in possession, but the wheels fall off in the final third. Too many hopeless balls over the top. Also, it's pretty clear that they're not adjusted to the turf. Hopefully they trained on it this week, but maybe not.

On another note, Dede is class. Clearly a cut above most of the others in the field.

Hot take here, but this Oneonta bench almost reminds me of an Amherst team. Bad look.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 07, 2018, 05:19:16 PM
Quote from: SandyMac on September 07, 2018, 05:18:04 PM


Hot take here, but this Oneonta bench almost reminds me of an Amherst team. Bad look.

I don't think we're quite there yet, especially after 2013.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 05:22:53 PM
Oneonta starting to grow into the game..Still not many dangerous chances yet...Isn't this where SLU was giving up goals last year...See if 2018 is a different beast
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:29:26 PM
Was just about to say that I am impressed by SLU playing it out from the back. Then the 'keeper takes a nice big hoof.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:31:58 PM
PK to Oneonta. Kid made the most of it but it was a silly foul.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:32:52 PM
Saved!

Not a great hit, but good reactions by the 'keeper.

Background comment on the SLU goalie "that's the first penalty he's saved in three years."
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on September 07, 2018, 05:33:20 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on September 07, 2018, 04:59:31 PM
I don't understand this Oneonta keeper Giordanno. Appears to have been pretty highly touted coming out of high school.  Spends freshman year at Loyola, Sophomore year at Buffalo and then transfers yet again to Oneonta Junior year.  What's the end game here? Clearly soccer was/is his priority. To each their own I guess.

Maybe relevant to the spirit of D3 discussion???  The bouncing around that we see with some frequency in D3 for the apparent sole purpose of pursuing soccer "careers" seems quite germane.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:34:39 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 07, 2018, 05:33:20 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on September 07, 2018, 04:59:31 PM
I don't understand this Oneonta keeper Giordanno. Appears to have been pretty highly touted coming out of high school.  Spends freshman year at Loyola, Sophomore year at Buffalo and then transfers yet again to Oneonta Junior year.  What's the end game here? Clearly soccer was/is his priority. To each their own I guess.

Maybe relevant to the spirit of D3 discussion???  The bouncing around that we see with some frequency in D3 for the apparent sole purpose of pursuing soccer "careers" seems quite germane.

To be fair I thought Buffalo and Loyola (MD) were D1 so maybe he figured out that D3 was a better fit?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 05:37:04 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:31:58 PM
PK to Oneonta. Kid made the most of it but it was a silly foul.

Silly foul and a VERY LAZY foul...That kid should get a chewin out after the game...Didn't even try to tackle him legitimately
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on September 07, 2018, 05:37:47 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:34:39 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 07, 2018, 05:33:20 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on September 07, 2018, 04:59:31 PM
I don't understand this Oneonta keeper Giordanno. Appears to have been pretty highly touted coming out of high school.  Spends freshman year at Loyola, Sophomore year at Buffalo and then transfers yet again to Oneonta Junior year.  What's the end game here? Clearly soccer was/is his priority. To each their own I guess.

Maybe relevant to the spirit of D3 discussion???  The bouncing around that we see with some frequency in D3 for the apparent sole purpose of pursuing soccer "careers" seems quite germane.

To be fair I thought Buffalo and Loyola (MD) were D1 so maybe he figured out that D3 was a better fit?

Right, but still a lot of chasing around for soccer....and could be wrong, but seems even more common for GKs which I can understand a little better because even a really good GK can get stuck behind another one and never see the field (unlike field players).

In general, 3 or more transfers seems to underscore how much importance given to soccer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 05:41:13 PM
Great turn by Oneonta #4 at top of box and he lost defender but then skied it
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 07, 2018, 05:42:21 PM
Moving Crouse from CB to striker paying dividends already. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 05:43:48 PM
Harmless long ball should have been easily cleared by Oneonta #15 who is a senior. He absolutely makes a hot mess out of that and SLU gets the 2nd goal. 2-0 SLU about 10 left...This is a big time win for SLU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:45:45 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 07, 2018, 05:37:47 PM
Right, but still a lot of chasing around for soccer....and could be wrong, but seems even more common for GKs which I can understand a little better because even a really good GK can get stuck behind another one and never see the field (unlike field players).

In general, 3 or more transfers seems to underscore how much importance given to soccer.

Makes sense.

As an aside, when I decided to transfer, I was told, "this is it! You only get one!"

Quote from: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 05:43:48 PM
Harmless long ball should have been easily cleared by Oneonta #15 who is a senior. He absolutely makes a hot mess out of that and SLU gets the 2nd goal. 2-0 SLU about 10 left...This is a big time win for SLU.

Yeah clumsy mistake. I think he thought he had more time than he did. Big win indeed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 07, 2018, 05:47:44 PM
Western Connecticut is having its way with Union so far, leading 3-1 at the half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on September 07, 2018, 05:51:46 PM
Big moment from Smith there, who I hope steps up and continues the tradition of SLU keepers having a strong senior year. Happy to see it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on September 07, 2018, 05:53:14 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on September 07, 2018, 05:47:44 PM
Western Connecticut is having its way with Union so far, leading 3-1 at the half.

Tough to watch for a former Union parent, when from ~ 2006-12, they were perennially in the top 2 or three in the league.  My son played in multiple LL championship games while he was there.  Looks like recruiting has fallen on tough times . . .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 07, 2018, 06:35:55 PM
Union is a mess and SLU picks up what eluded the LL all last year--a quality preseason win.  I was particularly impressed with their patience and how everyone worked back on defense.  At the end of this weekend we should have a good gauge on most of the teams. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on September 07, 2018, 07:22:57 PM
Maybe Oneonta is going to be down this year?  They're not off to a great start at 1-1-1, although their schedule is absolutely brutal.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 07, 2018, 07:42:34 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on September 07, 2018, 07:22:57 PM
Maybe Oneonta is going to be down this year?  They're not off to a great start at 1-1-1, although their schedule is absolutely brutal.

I've seen them twice so far this year (v SLU and Stevens) and my impression is that they seem to lack the spark they have had in recent years (of course SLU and Stevens might have had something to do with that!).  Coach Byrne always has a solid team, so I wouldn't write them off yet. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 08, 2018, 03:25:35 PM
0-0 draw between SLU and Plattsburgh.  Very even game.  SLU had the better first half and Plattsburgh the better 2nd half.  SLU had a chance or two in extra time but a 0-0 draw is a fair result.  I'm surprised Plattsburgh has only won 1 game, they look solid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 08, 2018, 03:35:47 PM
I expected a tough game today from Plattsburgh.
After yesturdays defeat to UMASS, I knew they would play this game to win.

That's the tough thing I think for coaches is not getting consistent effort from players.

A big part of winning is playing each and every game just as hard.

Had Plattsburgh put the same effort in, they would be in much better shape now.
Hopefully this is a turnaround point in their season.

As for SLU, they had a good weekend, but disappointed I'm sure not to win the game.

The SUNYAC will be tough this year.

Next up for St. Lawrence is Cortland, so it doesn't get easier.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 08, 2018, 03:37:24 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 08, 2018, 03:35:47 PM
I expected a tough game today from Plattsburgh.
After yesturdays defeat to UMASS, I knew they would play this game to win.

That's the tough thing I think for coaches is not getting consistent effort from players.

A big part of winning is playing each and every game just as hard.

Had Plattsburgh put the same effort in, they would be in much better shape now.
Hopefully this is a turnaround point in their season.

As for SLU, they had a good weekend, but disappointed I'm sure not to win the game.

The SUNYAC will be tough this year.

Next up for St. Lawrence is Cortland, so it doesn't get easier.



AMEN.....Consistent efforts game to game is KEY
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 12, 2018, 11:51:47 AM
Clarkson joins SLU and RIT in the regional rankings ...

http://unitedsoccercoaches.org/web/Rankings/College_Rankings/NCAA_DIII_MEN/web/Rankings/NCAA/DIII_MEN.aspx?hkey=8152a37c-dcf4-4681-b87d-1404b6d21915
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 12, 2018, 07:43:13 PM
RPI and Oneonta underway....RPI in a 4-2-3-1 and so far looks to be an even game. Neither team with any good looks as of yet
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 12, 2018, 08:52:24 PM
0-0 RPI v Oneonta 60th minute...Been tuning in and out but RPI has hung with Oneonta all game. Honestly when i have tuned in there has not been many chances for either team. I will say if RPI sits with 6 in a 4-2-3-1 they have proven to me they are going to be tough to break down this year. This is definitely an improved RPI side compared to 2016 and 2017. If they play defensively like they have tonight they are easily a Top 6 side in the LL. I would say they even have a shot a competing for the title but I have not seen any other LL teams in 2018 besides SLU. SLU has more skill and talent than RPI but that does not mean they will be able to break them down and score.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 12, 2018, 08:57:46 PM
I will say not sure about RPI's GK just yet but they are 2-2-0 with a 1-0 loss at UR and a 2-0 loss to Nazareth who have been down the past few years but years ago they used to have a strong side. Box score of the Nazareth side was RPI outshooting Nazareth 19-7 and losing 2-0 so maybe a little unlucky there bu looking closer I noticed Nazareth's 1st goal was "off a GK bobble" which is never great to read in a box score. GK has not really been tested tonight from what I have seen and yes I know Oneonta is not quite as strong this year as in years past but still a very respectable scoreline so far for RPI.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 12, 2018, 09:05:06 PM
Perfect...After all that love for RPI, Oneonta secures a ball at midfield play a little 1-2 and with speed down the flank they get service into the box..RPI defender caught glaringly BALL WATCHING and Oneonta striker steps right up and taps it in....GK no chance..1-0 Oneonta about 20 minutes left...No we might get an idea if RPI has anything in the tank and on the field to get a goal back. In the past couple of years RPI has not had anything close to resembling a striker that can score goals so I am not expecting much....Adam Clinton will be going NUTS when he sees the video of his CB stranding and watching the ball while the Oneonta striker calmly taps the ball in the back of the net...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 12, 2018, 09:25:37 PM
RPI ties it up 1-1 about 15 minutes left...Frosh Striker #12 Billy Chissoe takes advantage of an Oneonta defender one-timing a long ball by RPI backwards toward his net and Chissoe gets a hold of the ball at the top of the box takes a touch with his left foot away from a defender and RIPS it with his left foot into the panel...Nice strike especially if that kid is not left-footed...1-1
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 12, 2018, 09:55:44 PM
Game ends 1-1 RPI v Oneonta....Pretty fun game to watch and very even match...Solid result for RPI
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 12, 2018, 10:45:05 PM
SLU has had considerable success against RPI over the years but they have never been easy games.  RPI always puts up a fight.  Clinton has them in good shape and there is no such thing as an easy match against them.  Most of SLU's wins against them have come off of goals in the first half and then having to defend the rest of the game to hold them off.    With the way Clarkson and Ithaca are playing I think the LL might be more competitive than I originally envisioned.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 13, 2018, 06:42:47 PM
Potsdam 2, Hobart 1

Game-winner was an own goal in 83rd minute
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 14, 2018, 12:57:49 PM
First league game today.  Game could decide the last playoff spot even at this early date.  Ithaca, SLU and Clarkson have had the most impressive preseasons to date.  Nice to see the LL getting results against opponents like Oneonta and Hamilton.  Totally agree that the league will be extremely competitive and there easily could be a 2 or 3 loss team taking the regular season title.  Let the fun begin.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 14, 2018, 07:56:58 PM
Skidmore leading by a goal heading into the second half.
I agree, neither team can afford to drop this one really.

The league is very competitive this year.
Someone who normally makes it in will be left out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 14, 2018, 08:52:41 PM
BIG SAVE by Skidmore's GK on a dangerous free kick by Union right outside the box...Not sure who took that for Union but it was a nasty strike...Good save by Skidmore GK as they are up 2-0 late in the game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2018, 03:32:40 PM
Very poor performance by SLU today so far.   Cortland is obviously a top team, but SLU has absolutely no sense of urgency.  Defense caught ball watching in the 1st minute to concede and now a missed PK to boot.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2018, 03:35:44 PM
And that seals it.  Very nice run by Cortland to get past the defense and a nice finish.  Definite disparity between these teams.  SLU will have a rough go of it if they are this lackadaisical in the regular season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2018, 03:42:44 PM
Not sure if I agree.
This was a good game by SLU.
They are controlling the possession and were unfortunate to let in an early goal and missing a penalty which could have changed the momentum big time.
Credit just has to go to Cortland... so far... an experienced team who weathered the storm well and took their chances.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2018, 03:46:14 PM
Agree to disagree then, fair enough.  I thought SLU was outmatched.  Had a few chances and if that PK was converted that would have obviously changed things, but I felt like Cortland played well and SLU didn't.  Could just be one of those games where one team gets all the bounces.  I'm sure Tosh will re-organize things for Union next week. 

And as I say this SLU  nicks one back. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2018, 03:54:25 PM
Ignore everything I said Saint of Old!  My pessimism got the best of me.  Gritty equalizer that started from the back with Callahan.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2018, 03:57:58 PM
What a final 5 minutes to this game.  Right after SLU equalizes Cortland misses a golden opportunity and in the ensuing play SLU barely misses a nice 20 yard strike that goes just over the bar. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2018, 04:17:38 PM
And Cortland wins it in OT.  Dumb, dumb foul to give away at the top of the box to set up that free kick.  Can't be too upset since they were down 2-0 with 12 minutes left and they equalized, but still a silly foul to give away in an area like that.  SLU showed grit and determination but Cortland was just a bit better.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 17, 2018, 11:06:21 AM
Bad weekend for the Liberty League elite.  Hobart's horrible start puts them in a must win league tourney or out of the dance scenario.  So much for bounce from summer tour abroad.  Dede's penalty miss costs St. Lawrence big time.  Vassar's lack of urgency and quality finishing gives Oneonta a weekend break.  Coach Taylor takes no prisoners against his former team.  RIT goes 0-1-1 and RPI can't build on their Oneonta tie.  As league games begin in earnest Vegas has as a clear favorite based on the pre-season-- the Ithaca Bombers.  Their Manhattanville transfer has helped them go undefeated preseason.  Congrats.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 18, 2018, 08:32:03 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 30, 2018, 02:43:53 PM
I guess there is no more time to wait before making league predictions.

Now we have  a 6 team LL Playoff field, I see it playing out like this.

#6- RPI- I picked them to make it last year and they did not, I just cannot see this program missing out on the playoffs in back to back years.

#5- Ithaca- Getting back two big pieces on offense who missed basically all last season should help, also they have a year to become adjusted to what is required in this tough league.

#4-  Vassar- Could be a tough year for the Brewers, but thier pedigree and recent form over the past few seasons means they wont drop any further than this.


#3- SLU- Cannot recall the Saints ever having this big a recruiting class, this should help them to bounce back after a seriously dissapointing , by their standards, season last year. Also have perhaps the best player in the league back for his senior year.

#2- RIT- This team seems to be hitting new heights. Had a bad start last season yet lmost turned it around at the end.


#1- Hobart- I feel like it has to be unanamous after such an incredible performance last year, but teams will be gunning for them this year.


Apologies to Skidmore, as I had RPI edge them by a hair.


Bard, Clarkson and Union will compete, but I just dont think they will have enough to make top 6.

Would love for one or two of them to prove me wrong, then the season would really be crazy.
After 3 weekends, I am still sticking to my guns.
Clarkson is tempting me to squeeze them in, and I may after the weekend, but they have to pass their first league test first.
Hobart is puzzling, but still think they will be there at the end.
Skidmore sitting prettiest of all with 3 league points in the bag.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 18, 2018, 09:47:23 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 18, 2018, 08:32:03 PM
Hobart is puzzling, but still think they will be there at the end.

Tonight, Hobart outshot Cortland, but lost 1-0 and fell to 1-4-1 on the year.  The pattern of the past few years continues...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 19, 2018, 06:32:17 AM
That makes no sense.
They are playing a strong schedule, but now their backs are definitely against the wall.

Without a tournament title they wont be dancing this year.
Which is a shame, Hobart had an amazing year in 2017 and gave Messiah ALL THEY COULD HANDLE in the dance. Shame if they are having an off year, but a positive thing for other top LL teams perhaps.

This might just be a one bid league yet again this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 22, 2018, 03:53:21 PM
Awful 1st half performance by SLU against Union.  Union capitalized off a nice header off a corner.  They then sat back and comfortably absorbed all pressure.  SLU quite literally spent the remainder of the half passing back and forth among the back line.  The still have not been able to defend set pieces since Copeland graduated. 

On a side note, is it just me or is Box Caster getting worse every year?  I have not been able to watch a single game without at least 50 interruptions and stoppages.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 22, 2018, 05:09:51 PM
After a poor 1st half showing the SLU captains put on a class 2nd half performance.  Dede took over the game and is already making a strong case to repeat as LL player of the year.   Union was rather technically sound and I can definitely see them getting results this season despite their record. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 22, 2018, 07:28:16 PM
Great win by the Saints.
Even better was Hobart/Skidmore/Ithaca/Clarkson all getting a point and no three today.
Vassar had a great day as well edging RIT 1-0 and from the looks of the statistics totally dominating the game.


League is shaping up the way I thought it would so far.

Still might be a one bid league, but better than last season either way.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 25, 2018, 01:14:46 PM
While most teams have only played one league game, the winner of the LL depends on one question, can SLU get the Vassar monkey off its back?  Saint, you are right, Vassar's win was the most impressive of the weekend.  Total domination of a highly touted opponent.  SLU and RPI's have asterisks as they played the two weakest teams in the league, Bard and Union.  Skidmore and Hobart are not much better.  Ithaca and Clarkson are destined for the playoffs but will be behind SLU and Vassar.  Vassar will start 3-0 and SLU better make sure it doesn't put two Union first halves together before they play the Brewers or they will be looking up. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 26, 2018, 09:52:47 PM
Lightning delay in Annondale but Vassar having a tidy first half against Bard, comfortably up 2-0.   They have a very strong team.   Hobart nicked a 1-0 win at RIT, a win they desperately needed to get things on track.  SLU utilized Sandy to the max today against Clarkson to get a nice 2-0 win.  Clarkson had a few chances, as Smith had a very nice reaction save in the first 5 minutes and then a shot off the post in the second half.   SLU however completely controlled possession and kept Clarkson moving by frequently switching fields and throwing Clarkson off their game.  Got a bit lucky with an own goal, but SLU had built a lot of pressure up to that point.  Zaccolaro is having a very impressive start to his SLU career.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 26, 2018, 10:55:37 PM
Big win for Hobart as after a draw with Skidmore they should find themselves in the Top 6. RPI lost to at Williams today 2-0 but they showed well going into halftime 0-0 and with a couple opportunities to get a goal. 2nd Half they began to fade a bit but on an unfamiliar grass field they were ok. They did not look as good as they did against Oneonta a week or so ago but they are a Top 6 side. SLU and Vassar are #1 and #2 and that leaves 2 spots. Skidmore is already 1-0-1 and are playing better than I expected although I have not seen them this year. I have seen Ithaca and while they looked shaky defensively against Hamilton they are in my Top 6. I totally get Clarkson was ranked just last week but I am not sure they get in but it could be between them and Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 29, 2018, 11:02:44 AM
Big game in the LL today with Ithaca travelling to SLU.  I have seen both teams play once this season. I give the advantage to SLU as they have 1 or 2 more game changers than Ithaca but Ithaca is a hard working bunch and will not back down. Right now the LL is a 2 bid league to the NCAA's as Ithaca is 6-0-2 with wins at Hamilton, v Brockport and a key draw with Cortland. Should be a great game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 29, 2018, 05:26:07 PM
Sloppy, sloppy performance by SLU today.  I was honestly expecting more from Ithaca, but Sandy is always a difficult place for teams to play no matter their strength.  Way too many giveaways by the SLU midfield and backline.  Ithaca's CB were solid, however.     Vassar with another win now puts them in 1st.  They've played the cupcake part of their schedule but wins are hard to get in the LL and they've made the most of their opportunities so far. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 30, 2018, 05:58:07 PM
Got to watch the second half of Vassar-Union tilt. and second half and overtimes of SLU-Ithaca match.  Love this time of year.  Vassar is living off of excellent defense, and set pieces, and Saturday was no exception.  Even though they haven't played a LL team with a win yet, the absolute smothering of RIT's then vaunted offense put everyone on notice.  If there is any offense in the LL that can beat the Vassar defense it is SLU's.  From what I saw yesterday Vassar has the edge going in.  Despite speed and size up front, and an excellent playmaker in the middle in Dede, SLU has trouble connecting.  This is true from the back to the front.  While Dorney is a returning all LL player who has been honored as player of the week this year, his touch was abysmal and he, like the rest of the defense, repeatedly gave the ball away.  Even Dede cost SLU in another big game failing to finish a cross in the last minute of regulation that would have given SLU the win.  Combined with the Cortland PK failing, his misses have cost the Saints two big wins.  From its first win against West Conn Vassar has feasted on giveaways.  The corner kick leading to the goal against Union also stemmed from a Union giveaway in the back.  If SLU doesn't clean up the sloppiness you noted they will be looking at an at-large bid at best. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 01, 2018, 07:33:55 AM
Big weekend for Hobart.
These guys will be a tough out despite their bad non-league schedule.
Completely opposite for the Bombers who sit undefeated on the year and outside the playoffs if the post season began today.

Comes down I think to three teams (Clarkson,Ithaca,RPI) fighting for two spots I believe.

Best player in the LL is who it was last year and maybe since 2014.The Saint #6 is special and having an amazing year despite a few bad bounces.

We will see how the rest of the year shakes out but seems like Vassar has been the top team in the league... so far.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2018, 12:08:12 PM
Hobart has 5 of their last 7 games at Home to end their season but the 2 Away matches are at SLU and at Vassar. I think Ithaca will easily get in the Top 6 with only 2 games played to date. I was a little surprised they did not get a victory at Clarkson but it can be tough to play up there. I would not count RIT out just yet as they still have to play Bard and Union. They have SLU at Home this weekend but the key games they MUST Win are at Home v RPI and Skidmore right after the SLU match.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 03, 2018, 07:27:37 AM
I thought that Ithaca v. Clarkson game was played at the home of the Bombers.
Either way, yes, those two teams have a good shot at making it.

RIT has to turn it around as well.

Looks like the championship game will be held at Vassar.
Very impressed with them so far.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 03, 2018, 10:40:37 AM
One note that might be worth mentioning about Vassar. They replaced the turf on their main field this summer. Only this time, they didn't put soccer lines on it - just field hockey and lacrosse.

So last week they rained out a men's game against Wesleyan, and last night they rained out a women's game against Bard.

If they host, let's hope it doesn't rain.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 04, 2018, 05:18:01 PM
Ahh the agony and ecstasy of Wednesday nights in the middle of the LL season.  Skidmore with a massive last second victory over Williams puts itself in a position to be a top 2 team if it can beat Vassar at home this weekend.  Will the euphoria lead to a energized unit or a emotionally drained one, only time will tell.  New Paltz' win over Cortland makes Skidmore's loss to New Paltz more acceptable to committee members as well as Vassar's win over New Paltz more appealing.  The pain felt by SLU is best demonstrated by the post loss silence on this board.  Reading the story on the game Tosh seems just as content with trying to achieve a second consecutive player of the year award for his midfielder as with motivating his players to reach the dance.  This was a sub-500 team they lost to and the score would have been 4-2 if RPI's 90th minute shot had been a few inches below the crossbar.  If SLU doesn't make the NCAA playoffs with its 5 returning all LL players and the "best" player in the league over the past few years, there is going to be major consternation among the staff, supporters, and especially those 20 or so players who don't see a minute of playing time every game.  Ithaca may be attempting to try to accomplish what Union attempted last year, an undefeated non-conference schedule followed by a league schedule with no wins.  They should beat Bard easily but they have to be very frustrated with their start after having the best preseason performance of any LL team.  Hobart is thinking been there, done that, and will do it again.  Who cares about preseason if you run the table in league.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 04, 2018, 07:04:24 PM
SLU simply has not been able to replace Copeland and is still reeling from the effects of him graduating.   That was an extremely disappointing performance.  RPI actually looked like a good team even with SLU playing as poorly as they did.    The centerbacks have not been good enough, as their horrible first touches are killing the team.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 06, 2018, 11:18:30 AM
Big day in the LL.  5 head to head contests including some very intriguing games.  SLU v. RIT--can a struggling Saints team win on the road against a desperate RIT squad whose vaunted offense has disappeared and whose playoff hopes will be dashed with a 0-4 start?  Hobart v. Clarkson--can Hobart continue its league domination for a second year in a row against Clarkson's best team in years? Union v. RPI--Can Union save its season and another year of irrelevance by avoiding an 0-4 start while RPI hopes it didn't use up three games worth of goals in its huge win against SLU? Ithaca v. Bard--If Ithaca loses this battle of winless teams in league will its coaching staff look to bring in another 16 recruits next year and will it share the last 16 with hapless Bard? Skidmore v. Vassar--In a battle of stingy defenses which team's set play will propel it into a top two spot.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 06, 2018, 03:24:47 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 04, 2018, 05:18:01 PM
Ahh the agony and ecstasy of Wednesday nights in the middle of the LL season.  Skidmore with a massive last second victory over Williams puts itself in a position to be a top 2 team if it can beat Vassar at home this weekend.  Will the euphoria lead to a energized unit or a emotionally drained one, only time will tell.  New Paltz' win over Cortland makes Skidmore's loss to New Paltz more acceptable to committee members as well as Vassar's win over New Paltz more appealing.  The pain felt by SLU is best demonstrated by the post loss silence on this board.  Reading the story on the game Tosh seems just as content with trying to achieve a second consecutive player of the year award for his midfielder as with motivating his players to reach the dance.  This was a sub-500 team they lost to and the score would have been 4-2 if RPI's 90th minute shot had been a few inches below the crossbar.  If SLU doesn't make the NCAA playoffs with its 5 returning all LL players and the "best" player in the league over the past few years, there is going to be major consternation among the staff, supporters, and especially those 20 or so players who don't see a minute of playing time every game.  Ithaca may be attempting to try to accomplish what Union attempted last year, an undefeated non-conference schedule followed by a league schedule with no wins.  They should beat Bard easily but they have to be very frustrated with their start after having the best preseason performance of any LL team.  Hobart is thinking been there, done that, and will do it again.  Who cares about preseason if you run the table in league.   
Saints playing a good game so far.
Very patient and very calm on the ball in midfield.

I must admit that I bleed red, but my opinion as the SLU #6 as the best player in the leaguesince day 1 is not a homer call.
The kid oozes class.

Saint seniors must help him lead the team to where theywant to be this season though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 06, 2018, 04:12:36 PM
Predictable results today in LL....Union with an upset of RPI keeps their season alive...Skidmore continues the solid defense as they are scoreless with Vassar in OT rn....That would be another solid result for Skidmore if they can get a draw or even a Win
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 06, 2018, 04:16:35 PM
Jeez...Skidmore with 2 LEGIT chances to Win this game over Vassar....A couple 2v1's come up just empty....As typing Vassar takes advantage of a Skidmore giveaway and Vassar cracks the crossbar...Game is completely stretched just like the Skidmore v Williams game a couple days ago...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 06, 2018, 04:34:16 PM
Skidmore gets a bit of their own medicine as Vassar scores to beat Skidmore 1-0 with about 10 seconds left off a corner and failed clearance...Skidmore got Williams a couple days earlier but get burned today...Futbol is a funny game,,,That is a very tough loss as that would have been a Draw v a ranked opponent and a loss of 1pt in the standings plus a 3pt gift to Vassar...Very tough
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 06, 2018, 06:53:31 PM
Ref gets an assist in the 3 point gift to Vassar as soft second yellow puts Skidmore down a man for about 50 minutes. To live and die in the 109th minute.  Skidmore's keeper should be defensive player of the week even with the loss.  He went 219 minutes without giving up a goal and then the soccer gods took away in the same way they had giveth.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on October 09, 2018, 01:29:33 PM
First time post here although have read D3 Boards for a few years with interest. Just wanted to note that with the victory over Clarkson on Saturday Coach Griffin secured his 200th win at Hobart College. Don't know how many active D3 coaches have that many wins with the same program, at least in the North East, but it must be a relatively small group.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TyWebb on October 09, 2018, 02:00:35 PM
Quote from: Red Dog on October 09, 2018, 01:29:33 PM
First time post here although have read D3 Boards for a few years with interest. Just wanted to note that with the victory over Clarkson on Saturday Coach Griffin secured his 200th win at Hobart College. Don't know how many active D3 coaches have that many wins with the same program, at least in the North East, but it must be a relatively small group.

Two that jump out at me are Coach Skip Roderick from Elizabethtown and Jon Anderson of Babson. Their team's played each other for what I believe was the first time in their careers
earlier this season. There were a combined 900+ victories on the sideline that evening but fittingly the game ended in a 0-0 tie.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 09, 2018, 02:12:46 PM
Quote from: Red Dog on October 09, 2018, 01:29:33 PM
First time post here although have read D3 Boards for a few years with interest. Just wanted to note that with the victory over Clarkson on Saturday Coach Griffin secured his 200th win at Hobart College. Don't know how many active D3 coaches have that many wins with the same program, at least in the North East, but it must be a relatively small group.

A very cursory search in the Hobart sphere revealed Guinn at Union, Jennings at Vassar, and Apple at Rochester.

Now imagine 700+....that's Jay Martin at OWU.  500+ was a big deal for Coven at Brandeis just a couple of years ago.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on October 09, 2018, 02:24:59 PM
700 wins (let alone 500) seems nearly unattainable, and simply incredible. That would be, say, 15 wins a season for over 45 years!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on October 09, 2018, 02:29:36 PM
Some great data here, though it is 2 years old.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_soccer_RB/2017/2016coaches.pdf
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 09, 2018, 02:30:03 PM
Quote from: Red Dog on October 09, 2018, 02:24:59 PM
700 wins (let alone 500) seems nearly unattainable, and simply incredible. That would be, say, 15 wins a season for over 45 years!

You almost nailed it.  This is his 42nd season.  Making the post-season virtually every year with decent to very good NCAA runs doesn't hurt either.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on October 09, 2018, 02:40:31 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on October 09, 2018, 02:29:36 PM
Some great data here, though it is 2 years old.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_soccer_RB/2017/2016coaches.pdf

This does have great data and shows the remarkable careers these coaches have. Seems to be overall wins and not necessarily all at one school. Griffin is close to 300 I believe but just hit the 200 milestone for his current institution.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 12, 2018, 12:39:31 PM
Massive weekend in the LL should give us a good idea of how this thing will all play out for 2018. Big Fri/Sat doubleheader for every team starting today. The game of the weekend will be tomorrow with Vassar at SLU that depending on how Hobart does this weekend could decide the LL Regular Season Champion. Vassar did beat SLU twice last season both Home and Away. Hobart has 2 games at Home this weekend against Union and RPI and if they continue to play like they have the past couple weeks they should Win both of those games. They have not conceded a goal in 3 weeks but still look to be struggling scoring goals against organized compact defenses. RPI should present a possible problem on Saturday but I think Hobart can sneak a goal and shutdown RPI. Ithaca has been nationally ranked for a few weeks now and are 8-1-3 with a couple good results but are only 1-1-2 in the LL with the only Win being against Bard. I think we have 3 teams in Vassar, SLU and Hobart that are sitting in a real solid spot and are ahead of the rest of the pack. Even though Skidmore is 2-1-1 and have a couple decent results I still cannot put them into the Top shelf of the league because they are closer to the pack and have a difficult road trip this weekend. Basically you have 4 teams fighting for 3 berths. If you are not ready to give up on RIT and Union you have 6 teams fighting for 3 spots. I mean RIT is only 5 points out of 6th Place so if they beat RPI and Skidmore at Home this weekend they are right back in the hunt. Union's victory over RPI last weekend gives them a fighting chance with Bard still left on their schedule however Union is the type of squad that would come out flat v Bard and not Win...If Clarkson could get a Draw v Vassar today they would have Bard tomorrow and pick up 4 pts this weekend but Clarkson has struggled with Vassar in recent memory going 1-5-1 the past 7 years but the one Win over Vassar was at Home in 2014.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 12, 2018, 06:53:56 PM
Just going off of some quick glance box scores so correct me if I have the vibe of these games wrong but........


--Ithaca dominates Skidmore scoring on a PK and adding an insurance goal while only allowing Skidmore 1 SOG all game and beating them 2-0. Skidmore is such a different team away from Home.

---RIT snags its first conference win over RPI 2-1. Looks like a typical RPI match with 8 total SOG for both teams. RIT went into halftime up 1-0 but RPI came out 2nd Half and evened things up before RIT got the GW'ing goal in the 70th minute. Looks like it was an even game but RPI is leaking goals this year more than years past. RIT right back in the race for 5th/6th with that win but they realistically need another Win tomorrow because if Skidmore beats them they not only get 0 pts they give a team they are chasing 3pts.

----Clarkson with a bit of a shocker with a Win in OT over Vassar at Home 1-0. Stats show an open game that I would not of predicted but Clarkson had 9 corners and 5 SOG. Maybe Vassar looking ahead to SLU tomorrow?

----SLU beats Bard 2-0 and out shoots them 23-3. Bard had 1 SOG all game...Still it would be a 3 horse race to Win the league if Vassar beats SLU tomorrow.

-----Hobart defeats Union 1-0 to continue its good form the past few weeks as they have now won 5 games in a row. Union was held to 2 SOG but I am uessing they were well organized defensively and frustrated Hobart on the day as Hobart did not get the GW'ing goal until the 83rd minute.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 12, 2018, 07:11:00 PM
Never understood why Union doesn't do better.  Another school I liked a lot touring around colleges.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 12, 2018, 07:40:16 PM
Union needs a tougher non-league schedule simple as that.

What a Friday in the LL.

Clarkson's win over Vassar is definitely the result of the day. Clarkson now with one foot in the playoffs.
Hobart with both feet fully planted and should be playing in November after a rough start to the year.

Should be a barn burner in Canton tomorrow between Vassar and SLU.
Winner might get a bye along with Statesmen.

RIT is still alive!!
RPI is still alive!!
Skidmore should be in but must play better to avoid a #6 seed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 13, 2018, 12:57:03 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 12, 2018, 07:40:16 PM
Union needs a tougher non-league schedule simple as that.

This is actually not the answer, although I do agree that tougher opposition always helps.  For whatever reason, recruiting has dropped off since 2005-2010.  Union won the league circa 2006, and was in back-to-back LL conference championship games in 2008 and 2009 (losing 2-1 to Hobart in 2 OT).  They had an All-American (Sebastiaan Jansen) in 2012. If the program can attract that caliber of player again, it will compete for LL titles.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 13, 2018, 09:06:55 AM
I agree that Jansen (Along with Beek from Skidmore and Gorman from SLU) are the most dangerous strikers in the LL over the last generation.


One amazing player or even 2 is not enough for Union to turn it around.

I would point to a team like Alfred, who got beaten up a lot early in the non-league season, but because of scheduling a few big boys early on the team was acclimated to stronger competition.

I could be wrong, but I feel lie acclimating to competition happens more in soccer than any other sport.
Your team gets used to a certain level of competition and the better players will rise and adapt.

This is why I think, many of the big boys play D1  teams in preseason etc, just to get used to a faster pace, sharper passing and quicker brain speed for their players before the season starts.

If you play cupcakes (too many) then similarly, the team will adapt downwards, even good players will get into bad habits. Wingers wont close space quickly and wont get punished against bad teams and hen face a squad whose #3 will switch quickly over the top quickly and boom, you are down 1-0 in the first minute of the game.

I have a lot of respect for Union, and with their shock win over RPI they are not done yet, but they have players to compete.
They are not getting blown out by LL competition, just losing by the odd goal, so therefore the talent gap is not where a Bard is right now.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 13, 2018, 10:41:45 AM
Union had a quality striker after Jansen, Carl Faber ended his career with 28 goals, 11 more than Beek.  Faber probably is in the top ten of all LL career goal scorers along with Jansen.  I think Saint and others are right--it is the schedule.  You can't be prepared for a grueling LL slate playing low echelon DIII teams.  On a different note, yesterday's result for Vassar is a nightmare.  With Bard as Vassar's travel partner SLU gets to play 21 and coast while Vassar loses to a quality side in overtime.  If SLU dominates today it is because of Vassar's heavy legs from a grueling back to back, with an assist to SLU from the weakest sister in the league.
'
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 13, 2018, 04:45:01 PM
Perfect weekend for SLU.  Played a great game today against Vassar to secure 6 points on the weekend while RPI took down Hobart rather comfortably 2-0.  That is the RPI that showed up against SLU.    Good weekend for Clarkson as well, as they control their fate for a playoff spot. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 13, 2018, 10:51:11 PM
Crazy day in the league today.
RPI will get in.
Vassar are in despite loss, but must battle SLU and Hobart for the right to finish top 2.
Hobart stumbles against a LL foe for the first time since 2016 but at 5-1-1 still likely to win the league
Clarkson should get in. Brilliant season so far by their new coach.
RIT now off life support but still in critical condition.
SLU fighting Hobart for the top spot it seems.
Skidmore still has a chance but must start winning soon.
Ithaca has the best record in the league but only the 4th best record in the league.
Union not mathematically out yet, but...
Bard can hold its head up with solid performances and will still seek a league scalp before this thing is wrapped up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 17, 2018, 02:41:02 PM
Big mid-week LL battle today with Skidmore travelling 3 hours for a 7pm kickoff at CLarkson. Monster game for both teams but more important for Skidmore IMO. Interesting because IMO you have 4 teams battling for the last 2 Playoff spots. Since RIT found some life this past weekend with Wins over Skidmore and RPI they are right in the mixer especially with winnable games against Union and Bard still on the schedule. Skidmore still has SLU at Home but Skidmore plays well at Home and IIRC they usually play SLU tough on that turf. Clarkson has 2 road matches after tonight's final league Home game as they will travel to RPI and Union. Skidmore does not play very well on the Road but they have a funny way of getting pts in these type of games. They are well coached and tough to break down so I expect a tight match tonight. Skidmore needs at least a draw which I think they can get. Normally, in Skidmore's position I would say this is a MUST WIN especially with SLU on Saturday but they finish with Bard. All I know is that 5th/6th Place is going to be tight which is all we wanted before LL went to 6 teams.

BTW those 2 losses by Vassar to Clarkson and SLU this past weekend were killers. All of a sudden they went from an NCAA bubble team to losing out on a bye in the LL...They still have Hobart, Ithaca and RPI and while I expect them to bounce back it is a shame one weekend can kill all your Pool C hopes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 20, 2018, 11:16:49 AM
Another huge Saturday in the LL.  Burning questions include:  Can RPI take down another highly rated LL side in Ithaca and better its chances of avoiding missing the playoffs two years in a row; Can SLU avoid OT with Skidmore, a team that has lived and died there; Can Vassar obtain a win against a team in the top half of the LL; Can Hobart repeat its 2017 run to the LL regular season title by beating Vassar and then SLU next Saturday; Can Bard steal a win; Can Clarkson recover from a devastating OT loss midweek at home to Skidmore after it had just entered the East Region's top 10?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 20, 2018, 11:39:25 AM
I thought Clarkson outplayed Skidmore for 60 minutes and grabbed a 1-0 lead in the process but then tried to sit on its lead and it woke Skidmore up. Skidmore has SLU today at 3pm and then Bard so I think not only do they qualify for the LL Playoffs if they beat SLU today they have a shot at slipping into the East Regional Rankings even with a shockingly low SOS. They would have I think without looking 3-4 Wins v Ranked.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 20, 2018, 02:02:45 PM
Skidmore regretting that last second goal to Vassar.  RIT padding its stats against Bard. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 20, 2018, 02:47:31 PM
Big day!
SLU v. Skidmore is a huge game.
Skidmore were tourney finalists in 15 and 16 and made it in the tourney last year as well.
You can never count them out.
Clarkson has been surprisingly good, I did not have them making the tourney and they still might not, but a very good season regardless of how this plays out.

Both RIT and RPI have a good shot of making it in with RIT the slight edge after winning the Alpjhabet derby 2-1 earlier in the year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 20, 2018, 05:00:33 PM
Vassar had a much needed win at home against Hobart.   Hard to figure either of those teams out.  Vassar controls their fate with a game in hand and could sneak a 2nd place finish and potentially a 1st place finish depending on the SLU-Hobart result next week, but getting 6 points off of RPI and Ithaca is a tough task.  Either way that was a very big win for them. 

SLU did what they needed to do today.   Nice goal midway through the first and then kept possession the rest of the game.  They seem to be finally gelling as a team.   Charlton Kelly has had a very nice season thus far, and has been a very good asset at striker.   Skidmore away is never an easy task. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 20, 2018, 05:40:55 PM
Hobart's offense is feeble.  There is a reason their leading scorer has 3 goals.  If RPI score against Ithaca holds, the only chance of two dancers coming out of the LL are if SLU makes the final after beating Hobart and loses, or if Vassar runs the table til the final and loses a close one.  I don't see SLU getting a bid if they lose their first playoff game after beating Hobart, but perhaps Mr. Right has a take on that.  If Vassar's next loss is the LL playoff final can they get in with 5 losses?  Maybe Mr. Right can chime in on that as well.  Other than Vassar and SLU, no other team has any hope of a Pool C bid.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 20, 2018, 07:33:47 PM
gonna cross-post this here, just because I think it's so incredible that this more widely read forum should see it.

----------------------------------------------------

WSOC - Vassar beat #7 William Smith 1-0 on the road today, handing the Herons their first Liberty League loss in six seasons. WS had won 54 consecutive conference matches and was 65-0-1 against LL opponents (66 if you count an NCAA win over Ithaca when IC was in the E8) since 9/28/12. It's also the first conference L for the Herons at home in 15 years (10/24/03 to Union).

Congrats to the Brewers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2018, 06:37:28 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 30, 2018, 02:43:53 PM
I guess there is no more time to wait before making league predictions.

Now we have  a 6 team LL Playoff field, I see it playing out like this.

#6- RPI- I picked them to make it last year and they did not, I just cannot see this program missing out on the playoffs in back to back years.

#5- Ithaca- Getting back two big pieces on offense who missed basically all last season should help, also they have a year to become adjusted to what is required in this tough league.

#4-  Vassar- Could be a tough year for the Brewers, but thier pedigree and recent form over the past few seasons means they wont drop any further than this.


#3- SLU- Cannot recall the Saints ever having this big a recruiting class, this should help them to bounce back after a seriously dissapointing , by their standards, season last year. Also have perhaps the best player in the league back for his senior year.

#2- RIT- This team seems to be hitting new heights. Had a bad start last season yet lmost turned it around at the end.


#1- Hobart- I feel like it has to be unanamous after such an incredible performance last year, but teams will be gunning for them this year.


Apologies to Skidmore, as I had RPI edge them by a hair.


Bard, Clarkson and Union will compete, but I just dont think they will have enough to make top 6.

Would love for one or two of them to prove me wrong, then the season would really be crazy.
With one week left in the regular season, I am going to hold firm with these and change my name to Soccerdamus if the seedings actually play out like this.

I thought SLU might finish top 2 with the senior class as deep as it is, but I told myself it was a homer call.

Didn't predict such a rough start for RIT and had them much higher.

The thing about RPI is that you just canot count them out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 21, 2018, 07:19:15 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 21, 2018, 06:37:28 PM
I thought SLU might finish top 2 with the senior class as deep as it is, but I told myself it was a homer call.

SLU in the top 2 of the LL?  Not a homer call at all!  My projections for the LL always start with SLU at the top and then proceed downward from there.  It appears that the Saints have broken the "Vassar curse" that Deutschfan identified (3 losses to Vassar from 2000-2013 and 3 losses to Vassar from 2014-2017), the picture is especially rosy! 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 23, 2018, 07:11:22 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on October 21, 2018, 07:19:15 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 21, 2018, 06:37:28 PM
I thought SLU might finish top 2 with the senior class as deep as it is, but I told myself it was a homer call.

SLU in the top 2 of the LL?  Not a homer call at all!  My projections for the LL always start with SLU at the top and then proceed downward from there.  It appears that the Saints have broken the "Vassar curse" that Deutschfan identified (3 losses to Vassar from 2000-2013 and 3 losses to Vassar from 2014-2017), the picture is especially rosy!
Tough year last year for sure.
Same as 2009.
Similar to 1997
Seems that once a decade the boys have a difficult season. Really cannot complain as a program considering we are normally a dancing team.

I think it simply took the boys a season or two to transition to a new Coach.
Like Coach Durocher, Tosh loves the possession game, but there are slight nuances in playing styles.
Still Saint football with passing at the core.
I think Tosh and Durocher believe in the same philosophy of how the game should be played.
They developed this philosophy together almost 3 decades ago.

The Saints still need to focus and have to take care of business against an equally hungry Hobart team.

Hobart is seeking its 3rd straight league title. Yes. Third straight.
That program deserves alot of rrespect for how well they have done over the past few seasons (sometimes getting overlooked for well deserved NCAA bids).
Ditto for Vassar who were tourney finalists last year and could win league this year again with two wins.

These two programs unfortunately now have to win the tourney in order to dance.
Saints might have to as well.
Time will tell.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 24, 2018, 05:54:48 PM
RPI gets it done at Vassar and is likely looking at a home playoff game.  Odd season for them, but they got the wins they needed.   Bit of a disappointing 2nd half for Vassar as they looked like they were going to finish in the top 2.    SLU just needs to draw with Hobart at Sandy to wrap up the league title, but that is MUCH easier said than done as Hobart is going to jump out of the gate looking to pounce.  Should be a great game. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 24, 2018, 06:33:36 PM
Saint:  With RPI's win over Vassar you are looking like soccerdamus.  Two conceivable pool c's, Ithaca and SLU.  If Vassar beats Ithaca at home on Saturday then there will be one.  If they lose to Ithaca Saturday Vassar likely is in the 5 spot.  Three hours ago they could have finished first.  League is very competitive again this year.  Today's game was a very bad result for a Vassar team that normally is very tough at home.  Given that the regular season champ gets homefield for the semis and finals, Saturday's bout between Hobart and SLU is huge.  Smart money says the rest of SLU's pre NCAA games are at home. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 24, 2018, 09:32:53 PM
I agree Deutschfan:
Ithaca might get a pool C indeed.
SLU's loss to RPI I thought was the only game they were outplayed this year.
RPI is a difficult team to play.
Beating Vassar on grass (penalty save) come from behind v. SLU, shutting out Hobart and Ithaca shows that these guys are for real.

Dissapointed tjough as RPI should have a much better record if they only had consistent effort.
They proved that they are a top team in the league.
RPI can still finish second concievably.
Hobart can finish First or second concievably.
SLU can finish first or second concievably.
Vassar can still finish second concievably.
Skidmore can still make the playoffs.
RIT can still make the playoffs.
Clarkson can still make the playoffs.
Ithaca has made the playoffs and can still finish second concievably.

Wow.
What a season!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 25, 2018, 11:52:58 AM
If Bard can't get a result against Skidmore the 4 teams on the outs are set including the very talented RIT squad and a 10 win Clarkson team that had been regionally ranked.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2018, 01:47:14 PM
I have followed / watched the Liberty League for years but have seen some teams a ton more than others. This league is such a solid league and it is just a shame that it has been a 1 and maybe 2 bid league the past 5-7 years. The LL deserve the AQ and 2 Pool C's most years as they are such a competitive league especially with the addition of Ithaca and RIT. I think these Head Coaches who probably get together at the end of the year for their yearly meeting NEED to figure out what the problem is getting teams IN and improving teams non-conference schedules / results and other issues. I mean I would say because of the parity these teams tend to beat each other up BUT the addition of Bard has really killed every teams SOS year after year. Right now they have 2 teams ranked in the East Regional Rankings but with Vassar free-falling losing 3 of their past 4 league games I would expect them to drop out especially if they lose in the LL Playoffs. I think the problem is some LL schools like Clarkson, Skidmore, Union and Ithaca MUST schedule some better teams and get some results. Clarkson has a bit of a disadvantage because of geography but SLU does it and has a decent SOS. Skidmore needs to drop some of the WEAK schools on their schedule as they do play Plattsburgh and Williams but MCLA and a couple others need to go. The other issue is just getting results in these non-conference games. RPI beats Oneonta but then goes to Williams and looked AWFUL as I think they had 2 SOG all game. They beat SLU, Vassar etc but then lose to Potsdam and Nazareth. RPI schedules very tough games every year but they need consistency. Ithaca beats Hamilton, Brockport and draws Cortland but then schedules and beats teams like Wells, Elmira, Oswego and Alfred and count Bard and that is why they are not Regionally Ranked. I understand they play those schools because of history and geography but it has killed them this year with a .517 SOS. Ithaca has some great Wins this year and SHOULD be ranked but those schools have really dragged their SOS so far down that it will not matter. POINT---Some teams need to beef up the schedules, some teams need consistency non-conference( do not even get me started on Hobart), some teams might have to travel a bit farther and a team like Bard MUST improve because they were on the right track and then BOOM they are right back to where they started before McCabe was hired. Their Head Coach is Brandon Jackson a former Midd player and is very young and was McCabe's assistant because of the ties with McCabe at Midd but I am not sure he is ready for prime time here. Bard might need to go in a different direction.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TyWebb on October 26, 2018, 10:22:41 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 25, 2018, 01:47:14 PM
Their Head Coach is Brandon Jackson a former Midd player and is very young and was McCabe's assistant because of the ties with McCabe at Midd but I am not sure he is ready for prime time here. Bard might need to go in a different direction.

When my son was looking at schools, Coach Jackson made a hard push for him. We really like and respect Coach Jackson. He seems deeply committed to trying to make Bard a respectable soccer program and we felt he knew his stuff. In the end, my son chose another school for his particular academic pursuits and the social feel. Bard has a different vibe that may not fit a lot of alpha type soccer players.  Ultimately, it may be more about Bard than the coach as to whether this program can ever reach respectability in the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 26, 2018, 10:32:37 AM
Quote from: TyWebb on October 26, 2018, 10:22:41 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 25, 2018, 01:47:14 PM
Their Head Coach is Brandon Jackson a former Midd player and is very young and was McCabe's assistant because of the ties with McCabe at Midd but I am not sure he is ready for prime time here. Bard might need to go in a different direction.

When my son was looking at schools, Coach Jackson made a hard push for him. We really like and respect Coach Jackson. He seems deeply committed to trying to make Bard a respectable soccer program and we felt he knew his stuff. In the end, my son chose another school for his particular academic pursuits and the social feel. Bard has a different vibe that may not fit a lot of alpha type soccer players.  Ultimately, it may be more about Bard than the coach as to whether this program can ever reach respectability in the LL.

Makes a lot of sense....and akin to my take on what makes recruiting hard at Oberlin....and to a lesser degree at Wesleyan.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 26, 2018, 12:00:09 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 26, 2018, 10:32:37 AM
Quote from: TyWebb on October 26, 2018, 10:22:41 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 25, 2018, 01:47:14 PM
Their Head Coach is Brandon Jackson a former Midd player and is very young and was McCabe's assistant because of the ties with McCabe at Midd but I am not sure he is ready for prime time here. Bard might need to go in a different direction.

When my son was looking at schools, Coach Jackson made a hard push for him. We really like and respect Coach Jackson. He seems deeply committed to trying to make Bard a respectable soccer program and we felt he knew his stuff. In the end, my son chose another school for his particular academic pursuits and the social feel. Bard has a different vibe that may not fit a lot of alpha type soccer players.  Ultimately, it may be more about Bard than the coach as to whether this program can ever reach respectability in the LL.

Makes a lot of sense....and akin to my take on what makes recruiting hard at Oberlin....and to a lesser degree at Wesleyan.

What's interesting about Wesleyan is that it has had excellent football teams for a while.  Doesn't quite fit the prototype as an "artsy" school.  I don't think the school vibe has been hurting Wesleyan soccer recently; perhaps Coach Wheeler has just not worked as hard as may be needed, or has lost some of his previous touch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 26, 2018, 12:13:23 PM
Quote from: TyWebb on October 26, 2018, 10:22:41 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 25, 2018, 01:47:14 PM
Their Head Coach is Brandon Jackson a former Midd player and is very young and was McCabe's assistant because of the ties with McCabe at Midd but I am not sure he is ready for prime time here. Bard might need to go in a different direction.

When my son was looking at schools, Coach Jackson made a hard push for him. We really like and respect Coach Jackson. He seems deeply committed to trying to make Bard a respectable soccer program and we felt he knew his stuff. In the end, my son chose another school for his particular academic pursuits and the social feel. Bard has a different vibe that may not fit a lot of alpha type soccer players.  Ultimately, it may be more about Bard than the coach as to whether this program can ever reach respectability in the LL.

One of my sons played in the Liberty League, and Bard joined while my son was playing.  Despite its geographic location (which makes it a logical league member), I always felt that Bard was not a good fit with the rest of the league, and clearly, Bard is at a big recruiting disadvantage compared to other Liberty League schools.  Bard will struggle ever to make the league playoffs IMO.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 26, 2018, 01:48:29 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 26, 2018, 12:00:09 PM
I don't think the school vibe has been hurting Wesleyan soccer recently; perhaps Coach Wheeler has just not worked as hard as may be needed, or has lost some of his previous touch.

I don't want to go too far afield from the LL, but I don't think Wesleyan's lack of recent recruiting success is due to a lack of effort on Coach Wheeler's part. I can't think of any NESCAC coach who is more ubiquitous on the camp and showcase circuit. The recruiting white board in his office has many of the players who wind up at other top NESCACs, so I suspect that the difficulty in reeling 'em in may have more to do with the current competitive state of the program or the relative appeal of the school to soccer players than to Coach Wheeler's recruiting activities.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 26, 2018, 02:00:17 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on October 26, 2018, 01:48:29 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 26, 2018, 12:00:09 PM
I don't think the school vibe has been hurting Wesleyan soccer recently; perhaps Coach Wheeler has just not worked as hard as may be needed, or has lost some of his previous touch.

I don’t want to go too far afield from the LL, but I don’t think Wesleyan’s lack of recent recruiting success is due to a lack of effort on Coach Wheeler’s part. I can’t think of any NESCAC coach who is more ubiquitous on the camp and showcase circuit. The recruiting white board in his office has many of the players who wind up at other top NESCACs, so I suspect that the difficulty in reeling ‘em in may have more to do with the current competitive state of the program or the relative appeal of the school to soccer players than to Coach Wheeler’s recruiting activities.

I see the schools I mentioned on a continuum....first Bard, then Oberlin, then Wesleyan.  I'm least familiar with Bard and have kids who considered the other two.  Isn't Bard the school with two locations that takes 14 and 15 year old geniuses like the brilliant young journalist, Ronan Farrow?  And year, I don't think of Wesleyan as "artsy" and environmental as Oberlin but similar in terms of political activism and I presume the only NESCAC where one sees chalking and the like.

P.S.  Yes, Farrow started at Bard at Simon's Rock and transferred to regular Bard College where he graduated with a degree in philosophy at age 15.  Then went to Yale Law School.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 26, 2018, 02:38:50 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on October 26, 2018, 01:48:29 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 26, 2018, 12:00:09 PM
I don't think the school vibe has been hurting Wesleyan soccer recently; perhaps Coach Wheeler has just not worked as hard as may be needed, or has lost some of his previous touch.

I don't want to go too far afield from the LL, but I don't think Wesleyan's lack of recent recruiting success is due to a lack of effort on Coach Wheeler's part. I can't think of any NESCAC coach who is more ubiquitous on the camp and showcase circuit. The recruiting white board in his office has many of the players who wind up at other top NESCACs, so I suspect that the difficulty in reeling 'em in may have more to do with the current competitive state of the program or the relative appeal of the school to soccer players than to Coach Wheeler's recruiting activities.

Thanks Ommadawn.  I have no reason to doubt what you say, as it is consistent with what I have been told and with what I observed while my other son was a recent NESCAC player (through 2014), when Wesleyan was consistently one of the top 4 in the league.  My post should probably have stated that I "do not know whether the school vibe has been hurting Wesleyan soccer recently."
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 26, 2018, 05:01:41 PM
I don't recall anyone suggesting that Bard was a bad fit for the Liberty League after McCabe was named Coach of the Year and the striker Shenberger made First Team All-Liberty. But then McCabe died ... in April of 2016. So it's been 2 1/2 years since he passed. C'mon.

Bard IS a ball and chain on everyone's SOS. It's NOT good for the league. But I don't think it'll always be that way. It took a few years for McCabe to get them even sometimes competitive; it'll take Jackson a few years as well.

The question of why the Liberty League isn't getting two bids is as simple as looking at the results this fall. It's not Bard's fault Vassar's lost three of its last four. Or that Hobart lost to RPI and Vassar. Or that Ithaca didn't show up against RPI. Or that some teams don't schedule tough squads in non-conference play.

Let's remember: Bard did not pursue the Liberty League. The Liberty League pursued RIT and Bard, and snubbed Ithaca and Naz. (Then they sheepishly went back to Ithaca when the football problem arose.)

Bard's recruiting disadvantage began mostly with facilities, but since joining the LL, they've built a $2.1M baseball facility, and they just added turf for lacrosse/soccer this past spring. Also, much of the challenge, as it is with Vassar, is finding kids who qualify academically in a very challenging educational environment.

Bard won't relent on its academic standards, nor will Vassar. Vassar's making it work, but it didn't happen overnight. It won't happen overnight for Bard, either. Especially considering the architect of the program suddenly died.

Vassar's men's soccer LL record, after joining in 2005
0-5-2
2-5-0
1-3-3
2-5-0
3-3-1
1-5-1
4-3-1
5-1-2
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 26, 2018, 05:22:38 PM
Great post...+k
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 26, 2018, 06:41:23 PM
While I agree with most of what you all say especially d3d3d3 I just think there is a big difference between McCabe and Jackson...McCabe was around the Midd program for like 20 years and in Coaching for god knows how long and Jackson is younger than Midd's current Head Coach Alex Elias. I would give him a better chance to succeed at Midd but this Bard situation for all the issues that you have mentioned NEEDS a veteran presence especially recruiting and the like. Bard can be very tricky to recruit to and you NEED tons of contacts and networks to give kids a bit of a nudge...but just my opinion and I will be first to admit if Bard wins the league in the next 3 years but I am not seeing anything that resembles a champion just yet.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 26, 2018, 10:07:47 PM
You're absolutely right. I think the hiring of Jackson had more to do with keeping a devastated team together at the time. Bard does require a special recruiter. Maybe he's not it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 27, 2018, 02:31:15 PM
Skidmore up 2-0 on Bard already midway thru the 1st Half so it looks like curtains for RIT(who is losing to Union 0-1), Union and Clarkson.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 27, 2018, 02:33:15 PM
Hobart in a tight 4-2-3-1 trying to somehow get a result at SLU on a nice rainy day...I suppose looking for a counter, a win and the title...SLU just needs a draw to host.....BUT Vassar is up 1-0 on Ithaca and if that holds they will move into 2nd Place and get the all important bye.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 27, 2018, 02:42:43 PM
SLU gets the opening goal late in the 1st Half off a set piece. Nice dangerous serve into the box had the Hobart GK come out and punch the ball right to a SLU player in the box who found himself wide open and took the ball off his chest and calmly ripped it into the net...Nice finish...1-0 SLU
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 27, 2018, 02:47:50 PM
That goal for SLU was perfect for the neutral fan as Hobart has come out of its shell late in the Half and look to be on the attack. They will certainly press forward all 2nd Half and could end up seeing some more goals in this one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 27, 2018, 02:52:31 PM
and just like that.......Hobart gets one back before the Half 1-1......Tough angle to score on and I could not tell if the SLU GK could have done better on that one but it was a rip....I would Hobart keeps the pedal down instead of going back into a shell 2nd Half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TyWebb on October 27, 2018, 02:58:58 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 27, 2018, 02:52:31 PM
and just like that.......Hobart gets one back before the Half 1-1......Tough angle to score on and I could not tell if the SLU GK could have done better on that one but it was a rip....I would Hobart keeps the pedal down instead of going back into a shell 2nd Half.

Mr. Right you called it, that goal didn't take long! I rewound the feed at the end of the half and the GK looked to be in a good position slightly out from the near post. Patrick just made a nice shot to the far post. Perfect placement imho.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 27, 2018, 03:01:17 PM
Halftime in the LL:

Skidmore v Bard  4-0
Union v RIT         1-3
SLU v Hobart       1-1
Vassar v Ithaca    1-0
RPI v Clarkson     0-0     RPI does not have a shot yet. They need a Win to get the tiebreaker over Vassar unless Ithaca can come back and get a Draw.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 27, 2018, 03:46:10 PM
SLU takes a 2-1 lead with about 15 minutes left...Beautiful counter after a Hobart giveaway in SLU's Half...The counter ended up being a 3v3 but SLU attacker dragged over the CB and a cagey run by another SLU player in the box and careless defending by Hobart defender who lost his man in the box which is inexcusable and the kid slotted it home...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 27, 2018, 03:49:30 PM
Well Union and Bard threw in the towel 2nd Half as RIT is up 5-1 and Skidmore up 6-0 respectfully. Clarkson holding RPI 0-0 and they have to be kicking themselves for losing that Home match to Skidmore as they were in control of that game until Skidmore got the tying goal and then finished Clarkson off in OT. Clarkson was relying on Bard to pull an upset of Skidmore and that is like relying on NSN to have a disruption free broadcast.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 27, 2018, 03:54:04 PM
Hobart again putting pressure on SLU as soon as they fall behind...Here is an idea why not come out and play like this from the get go....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TyWebb on October 27, 2018, 03:57:06 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 27, 2018, 03:46:10 PM
SLU takes a 2-1 lead with about 15 minutes left...Beautiful counter after a Hobart giveaway in SLU's Half...The counter ended up being a 3v3 but SLU attacker dragged over the CB and a cagey run by another SLU player in the box and careless defending by Hobart defender who lost his man in the box which is inexcusable and the kid slotted it home...

I did a quick rewind and think the SLU scorer may have had his right foot in an off-sides position, but it was very close. I tend to agree with you that it was careless defending to lose a man in that situation.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 27, 2018, 04:09:06 PM
After a testy start to the league, SLU really turned it on the rest of the season.  I honestly did not expect a regular season title, but they really meshed well and played as a team.  When Hobart pressed they got lots of chances, I don't know why they weren't going for maximum pressure the whole game. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 27, 2018, 05:57:16 PM
Vassar up 3-0 at Ithaca in the 65th minute when the roof caved in. IC draws a penalty, converts it and goes on to score 3 times in the final 10 minutes to win 4-3. The big winner of all that was RPI, which moved up to the 2 seed after its 5th straight shutout win.

6) Skidmore at 3) Ithaca
5) Vassar at 4) Hobart

HOB/VC at 1) St. Lawrence
2) RPI vs. IC/SKID
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 27, 2018, 06:40:11 PM
What a crazy ending in Ithaca.  On the verge of Pool C elimination and down 3 in the second half Ithaca potentially saves its dance ticket after the greatest collapse in Vassar soccer memory, if not history.  Ithaca scores 4 unanswered goals, 3 in the last 10 minutes, against a Vassar team that started league with 4 shutouts and whose goalie was the ECAC Defensive Player of the Month for September.  Can't imagine that ride back from Ithaca to Poughkeepsie.  Some other craziness.  The League's two leading point scorers, by far, are on teams that did not make the playoffs.  Both of them deserve first team recognition and player of the year consideration, although a POY from a team that doesn't make the playoffs probably never happens.  The team that perhaps is playing the best soccer right now, RPI, has 8 losses.  Hats off to the SLU seniors who get a great deal of credit for bringing the title to Canton.  Bard's collapse is now complete--1 league goal scored, 33 league goals given up.  More on Bard later.  If Ithaca can get to the playoff finals, or SLU doesn't win out, LL should get two tickets.       
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 27, 2018, 06:49:31 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 27, 2018, 06:40:11 PM
What a crazy ending in Ithaca.  On the verge of Pool C elimination and down 3 in the second half Ithaca potentially saves its dance ticket after the greatest collapse in Vassar soccer memory, if not history.  Ithaca scores 4 unanswered goals, 3 in the last 10 minutes, against a Vassar team that started league with 4 shutouts and whose goalie was the ECAC Defensive Player of the Month for September.  Can't imagine that ride back from Ithaca to Poughkeepsie.  Some other craziness.  The League's two leading point scorers, by far, are on teams that did not make the playoffs.  Both of them deserve first team recognition and player of the year consideration, although a POY from a team that doesn't make the playoffs probably never happens.  The team that perhaps is playing the best soccer right now, RPI, has 8 losses.  Hats off to the SLU seniors who get a great deal of credit for bringing the title to Canton.  Bard's collapse is now complete--1 league goal scored, 33 league goals given up.  More on Bard later.  If Ithaca can get to the playoff finals, or SLU doesn't win out, LL should get two tickets.     

Yes, that must be a horrible ride back.  Amazing comeback.  Amazing collapse.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 27, 2018, 09:18:08 PM
Brilliant season overall in the league.
I think that most would agree that the best 6 teams got in.


I think that there will be a few more surprises before its all said and done.

SLU needs another win I think to guarantee dancing this season.

No one wants to play surprise #2 seed RPI.
They are experts at beating good teams and can count SLU, Oneonta, Vassar, Hobart and Ithaca among thehir 2018 scalps so far.


Ithaca coming into post season both hot and on an emotional high after a crazy comeback win.

Hobart will be dissapointed in how the league season finished up but will still think they can dance and confident of winning the tourney.
Skidmore will be happy to make the post season and had absolutely no mercy against an overmmatched Bard who played their best game of the league away to SLU.


Vassar will be out for vengeance, against Ithaca or whoever is in their path the rest of the way.


On the Outs

Tough one for Clarkson, but they fought till the very end

RIT left it for late and it became too late.

Union has to do better next year.

Bard goes back to the drawing board to figure out a better game plan for a very tough league.

No matter how this thing works out, I hope we have two dancers in November.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on October 27, 2018, 10:14:45 PM
Saints played extremely well today and deserved the win as they were the better side. Looking forward to the tournament....anything can happen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 28, 2018, 11:11:13 AM
My player of the week--Jon Kyriakidis of Ithaca.  Last year he scored the winning header goal for Manhattanville against Vassar in the 96th minute.  This year he has the winning header for Ithaca against Vassar in the 87th minute.  How often does that happen in D3 that a player gets winning goals against the same team in consecutive years playing for a different side? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 28, 2018, 12:09:17 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 28, 2018, 11:11:13 AM
My player of the week--Jon Kyriakidis of Ithaca.  Last year he scored the winning header goal for Manhattanville against Vassar in the 96th minute.  This year he has the winning header for Ithaca against Vassar in the 87th minute.  How often does that happen in D3 that a player gets winning goals against the same team in consecutive years playing for a different side? 

Agreed.
And plus K for great research as well on this kid.
He also scored the winner against Ithaca earlier in the week, I believe off a header as well.
The Bombers are a traditional power and seem to be ready after getting back two key players lost last year to injury.


This Johnnie K kid seems like he will cause headaches for people in the post season.

Vassar should have recruited him hard after last season.
They already knew first hand how good he was.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2018, 12:30:07 PM
Thanks Saint.  Good luck to SLU this weekend.  Yesterday's games, in conjunction with last year's first round results demonstrate the importance of getting that 3 or 4 seed.  Since the LL went to a six team format no road team has won in the first round.  Yesterday Skidmore had to travel on a school day more than 4 hours to Ithaca, and Vassar more than 5 hours to Geneva.  Skidmore held on for one half, Vassar couldn't last that long.  Vassar's defense was a total enigma this year.  Their goalie is excellent and made some great saves against Hobart.  But for him, and Hobart falling asleep after a goal, the score could have been 6-1.  Vassar also has last year's DPOY.  Yet they gave up 8 goals in their last two games.  One thing I noticed watching yesterday was that Vassar's midfield and forwards just don't play defense.  Maybe they were exhausted or downhearted from the Ithaca result.  They now have 10 months to find their defense again.  SLU should take notes on yesterday's game as Hobart's offense has awakened.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2018, 12:37:44 PM
Yea pretty solid result for Hobart scoring 4 Goals against Vassar but without having watched the match I am guessing Vassar was pushing #'s forward and Hobart got a couple that way but maybe I am wrong. Either way I think the rematch of this past weekends match between Hobart at SLU should produce the LL Champion. SLU should be an NCAA lock either way and I am hoping Hobart has learned its lesson from Saturday and NOT sit in that defensive shell until conceding a goal. If they come out wanting to Win the match they can do it. Personally, I think Hobart is an NCAA team so I am hoping they can win the LL title and we can have two very solid LL sides in the NCAA Tournament. Ithaca has to many holes defensively IMO and RPI I still think is a year away. RPI can win this thing the way they play but I would rather see Hobart make a run.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on October 31, 2018, 02:12:23 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 31, 2018, 12:30:07 PM
Thanks Saint.  Good luck to SLU this weekend.  Yesterday's games, in conjunction with last year's first round results demonstrate the importance of getting that 3 or 4 seed.  Since the LL went to a six team format no road team has won in the first round.  Yesterday Skidmore had to travel on a school day more than 4 hours to Ithaca, and Vassar more than 5 hours to Geneva.  Skidmore held on for one half, Vassar couldn't last that long.  Vassar's defense was a total enigma this year.  Their goalie is excellent and made some great saves against Hobart.  But for him, and Hobart falling asleep after a goal, the score could have been 6-1.  Vassar also has last year's DPOY.  Yet they gave up 8 goals in their last two games.  One thing I noticed watching yesterday was that Vassar's midfield and forwards just don't play defense.  Maybe they were exhausted or downhearted from the Ithaca result.  They now have 10 months to find their defense again.  SLU should take notes on yesterday's game as Hobart's offense has awakened.     

One interesting aspect of Hobart's "home field advantage" yesterday was they actually played on the turf football field because grass field unplayable. Two of Hobarts best games this year were on that field, their dominant 3-0 win over Ithaca and yesterday. Vassar had a long trip either way however. Don't think Hobart goals were due to Vassar pushing forward and being stretched and one Vassar goal may not have actually been a goal, so a good result for Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 31, 2018, 02:17:57 PM
Looking at that box score ... is that one of Hobart's starting backs who picked up two yellows in the second half? So he will sit vs. SLU, right?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on October 31, 2018, 04:16:04 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on October 31, 2018, 02:17:57 PM
Looking at that box score ... is that one of Hobart's starting backs who picked up two yellows in the second half? So he will sit vs. SLU, right?

Don't think anyone was sent off in the game so assume this is typo on statistics.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 02, 2018, 02:25:31 PM
As the playoffs wind up LL will be issuing its end of season awards.  POY is a toss-up.  If it could be by committee it would be
Kelly, McNamee, and Dede.  A case can be made for any one of these.  So, I am punting for now awaiting playoff performance even though that shouldn't enter the equation.  DPOY in my mind is easy, although probably controversial.  Logan Leppo, sophomore goalie for 0-9 Bard, posted the largest number of saves in LL history--by far.  He had 17 in one game.  He was the tin duck in the shooting gallery and thrived.  I haven't seen a field defender who wasn't overly generous in giving balls away to the other team, SLU's defenders included, and perhaps especially.  Therefore Logan gets my vote that doesn't count.  All eyes this weekend on Coach Clinton to see if RPI can pull a rabbit out of the hat.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 03, 2018, 01:19:12 PM
Hobart cam back from 2-1 down to force OT with SLU....2-2 late in the first OT....Hobart's season on the line here and SLU is in no matter what but could help their seeding by winning LL....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2018, 01:20:42 PM
You really think SLU is in no matter what?  I thought we'd be on the margins if they didn't win the tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 03, 2018, 01:21:48 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 03, 2018, 01:20:42 PM
You really think SLU is in no matter what?  I thought we'd be on the margins if they didn't win the tournament.

Nah....Ur all set....Only worry would be the low SOS but as long as they do not lose this match I think they are fine...Who is going to pass the in the East? Doubtful NYU will as they are 0-0 with Brandeis and not much time left....New Paltz already lost a week ago and Oneonta lost to Cortland...Oneonta should be very worried right now as they are on the bubble and probably the wrong side of it...Their collapse at Cortland just killed them....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 03, 2018, 01:31:51 PM
SLU wins it on a header off a corner kick in 2OT!  Pool C aspirants can breathe a little easier now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 03, 2018, 01:32:48 PM
What a CLINICAL finish by the SLU player...That is an absolute beast of a header as that was like a pro's header....Failed clearance by Hobart off the corner and a nice ball into the back of the box just got finished to end Hobart's season in the 106th minute....3-2 SLU and they will get the winner of Ithaca/RPI.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2018, 01:48:32 PM
Despite the weather conditions that was a great game all around.  Hobart came out pressing and capitalized off a deflection from a punched ball by the keeper.  Set piece to equalize for SLU late in the first and another great finish off a run by Kelly similar to a few goals he scored in the regular season.  Hobart tied it up off a VERY nice volley midway through the 2nd.  That was hit perfectly.   SLU was a bit unlucky with the red card as the field conditions played a role in Crouse sliding Sol Campbell style into the Hobart keeper.  He was studs up though and you can't really let that go.      SLU has never fared well in penalties so I was a bit nervous about that, but another great goal off a set piece sealed the deal.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 03, 2018, 03:12:47 PM
At the risk of breaking out a lovefest, let me say its a great day to be a Saint.
The boys have turned it around this season and are starting to look like they are getting there.

Not sure what happened last year.
I think a mix of bad luck and a bit of a lack of depth, both of which have been cleaned up a bit this year.

As for awards, I think that SLU #6 has clinched it with two assists in the semi final game.

Kid was ROY as a freshman then POY as a Jr. and could win tourney POY this season.
Just an unbeleivable talent and great leader.
Tough to make it on the AllTime SLU starting 11 but I think this kid has
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 03, 2018, 06:44:41 PM
Bombers score on a rebound with 3 minutes left in the first overtime to knock off RPI 1-0 and advance to the finals, yaaaaaay
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 03, 2018, 07:24:11 PM
Congrats Saint and all Saints' fans.  Great final tomorrow.  Teams with the two best records who tied the first time around.  Both made the final with last second heroics and both will dance barring a total shaft of Ithaca by the committee if they lose.  Glad to see two LL teams likely to make the tournament.  Looking forward to some NESCAC/LL matches in the Dance.  Ithaca already has a NESCAC pelt along with 6th place Skidmore against NESCAC tourney finalist Williams.  Make us proud. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 03, 2018, 07:49:59 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 03, 2018, 07:24:11 PM
Congrats Saint and all Saints' fans.  Great final tomorrow.  Teams with the two best records who tied the first time around.  Both made the final with last second heroics and both will dance barring a total shaft of Ithaca by the committee if they lose.  Glad to see two LL teams likely to make the tournament.  Looking forward to some NESCAC/LL matches in the Dance.  Ithaca already has a NESCAC pelt along with 6th place Skidmore against NESCAC tourney finalist Williams.  Make us proud.

Thanks Brother.
I agree with you that both Ithaca and SLU should be dancing this year regardless of the outcome, but now that Oneonta (Tied/Out Penalties), Cortland and Rochester ( Tied/out in Penalties) have also gone and will likely get the Pool C, I am sure both coaches  are going into this telling their players they need another win.


LL should get two teams, the league deserves nothing less, as I think all four teams that play today would have danced with anyone in the country.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 03, 2018, 08:02:37 PM
Just a word for Seniors from Hobart and RPI.
As someone who saw his career end on the SLU soccer field as well.

Hats off to an impressive Hobart senior class:
These boys had a very good and underrated and unrecognized run in the league.

They won the regular season title in 2016.

Won the regular season and Tournament in 2017.

An NCAA team in 2017 who gave the eventual champions ALL THEY COULD HANDLE in 2017 and almost got a win, who knows what would have happened next, maybe a deep run to the promise land themselves.

These boys came in in 2015 and quickly established their program as a powerhouse in the league and an elite LL team.

The true shame is that this class did not finish their careers in the dance.

For almost 3 seasons 2016-2018 they could not be touched in the league.
Have a whole lot to be proud of and leave their program situated well.

RPI are Giant Slayers.

They were the most dangerous team in the league this year, I for one am glad that we are not facing this team.

Beat Hobart 3-0
Beat RPI 3-0
Beat SLU 3-2 (Would have been 4 had the last shot of the game not bounced off the crossbar).
Beat Oneonta.
Beat Vassar 2-0 on the road.
These guys are an NCAA team, they just lost too many games to mediocre teams.
Today, they dominated a quality Ithaca team and were unfortunate not to win.
Hats off to Coach Clinton who did a masterful job this season and is by far one of the best coaches/tacticians in the league.

RPI Seniors should also be proud of thier body of work over the years.

This proud program missed the playoffs last year, and seniors had to set things right which they did in 2018 with one hell of a run.

I say again, the LL had 4 teams this year worthy of dancing, unfortunately the committee is unlikely to reward them all.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 03, 2018, 10:27:36 PM
+ k to Saint of Old for recognizing the Hobart and RPI players. The Statesmen gave it their all today and all season. The last two senior classes were special , for sure. Good luck to the Saints tomorrow and in the tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on November 04, 2018, 06:45:58 AM
+k to Saint as well, he is truly a class act and I greatly enjoy his passion and insight.

I have watched the boards all season and not had a chance to post, but with my extra hour from daylight savings today I finally made the time.

The Liberty League looked to take a step forward this year as a conference and appears to be gaining strength.  It was also a little odd in that there were only 3 draws all season, two less than Skidmore alone managed last season.
There have been a lot of great stories in the league – SLU's continued strength and return to form after having a legendary coach leave the sideline, to the return to power for Ithaca (who's mid-1990's teams were stellar) and Hobarts rise to being a consistent threat to make the tournament – has been great to see.  But I think in some ways the re-emergence of Clarkson has gotten lost in the shuffle – so I wanted to take a little time, as an alum, to give it some credit.

While Clarkson didn't manage to break into the top-6 in the league like they did last season I think they made another substantial step forward. I think many expected them to drop off after Coach Taylor moved on to Plattsburgh, but I think this season showed continued growth for a program that once produced a Final Four team and badly wants to compete at a higher level.  Clarkson finished at 10-6-1 with it being the first 10 win season in 17 years.  I know the out of conference slate wasn't stellar, but this is still a tremendous achievement.  I also think that the loss of Aidan Subra to injury after only fie games hurt the teams momentum as he was having a very special year – with points in all five game from 2 goals and 5 assists.  As Clarkson has rebuilt over the past 5 or so years it has been an inconsistent process, with the 2016 team being the first to hit .500 by playing great defense. That team managed to hold opponents to 13 goals over a 16 game slate, but relied solely on counter attacking and were almost doubled up in shots.  The 2017 team built off the strength at defense and looked to open the offense up a little more and took a step forward with their first LL tournament berth.  This season saw the return to an excellent defense conceding a program record low of 10 goals but without the compromise of bunkering in.  Clarkson actually went the entire season without being outshot by an opponent with only Plattsburg and SLU equaling there shot totals.  They could stand to put a few more on frame, but the trend is certainly moving in the right direction. 

A few folks have mentioned the strength of schedule for out of conference, and I know it has been challenging for Clarkson to get solid opponents to bolster this.  Clarkson and SLU used to play nearly an identical schedule; however over the past 7-8 years it looks like that alignment has weakened as Potsdam looks to be Clarkson primary travel partner out of conference, which doesn't help SOS.  I would hope that Clarkson and SLU could eventually upgrade the quality of opponents in their start of season tournament and potentially tie themselves together for a weekend to bring in some higher caliber opponents.  To be honest, Clarkson alone can't draw a strong team with a home and home due to the geography and other constraints, but a weekend with SLU/Clarkson should be a draw for a few higher quality sides that would love a shot at adding SLU to their RvR totals. 

I think Clarkson appears to have absorbed the coaching change well and hopefully can look to the future with optimism.  They lose a few very good seniors but look to have the depth developed to continue to move forward.  Saint mentioned seasons that seem to occur every decade or so and listed 1997 as one for the Saints – I see shades of 1997 for Clarkson as well.  Clarkson was an excellent side in '97 and was off to a great start, including beating national top-5 Ithaca early in the season, before a few key injuries in the midfield slowed the offense.  The team lost each of its last three league games 1-0 in OT (just as this years team did) and never lived up to its potential, seeing 10 seniors graduate.  The 2018 team then came out and had one of the finest seasons the program has seen, giving SLU one of the best matches I've ever seen in the second round of the NCAA's before succumbing to a 1-0 OT loss.  Hopefully, the 2019 Clarkson team can take a page from that great team and move the program forward again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2018, 07:34:41 AM
I appreciate it Brother Knight.

Your passion shines through as well.

Clarkson's revival did not escape me at all.
That new young coach has "it", whatever it is, his players clearly play for him and he has the makings of a talented squad that will only get better.

I thought earlier this year that the Route 11 weekend trip was making teams worry a lot just like it did a while back.

Vassar, a great team, had a beautiful season going before they made that trip this season.
Clarkson will be really good in years to come if they continued. I did not have them making the playoffs, but after 10 games I was tempted to change that prediction. I didn't know about the loss of a key player, that definitely will hurt a season.

You are bringing me back now my friend with the 97 reference.
That was a strange year. We lost our first 2 games.
Won the league title, won the ECAC playoffs, but it just still felt like a rough year.

I think the year you referenced in your post was 1998 not 2018.
Wow what a NCAA game between Clarkson and SLU.
Instant Classic!!!
It seems in 1998 we were destined to go up against the best teams in the country during the tourney.
A tough Plattsburgh, a determined talented Clarkson and Williams, who I thought would win it all that year.
Back then Clarkson and Williams were just coming off final 4 runs a few seasons earlier and Plattsburgh were undoubtedly a power in the region.

People dont get that for the alumni, this is where its at.
Watching these games/seasons and cheering for the boys enjoying games.
While we were playing there was no time to 'enjoy" these games or seasons, it was a battle, constant war and competition and fights wo win games. These boys have to play their part in these wars now and then enjoy it down the line knowing they were a part of building the brotherhood we all enjoy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on November 04, 2018, 08:45:44 AM
You're correct I did mean 1998.  That was back when there was no AQ and the East region got 4 teams – 3 of which (Clarkson, SLU and RPI) came from the LL predecessor UCAA.  It would be nice for the LL to get back to that kind of representation. 

I didn't recall how SLU ended their season in 1997 and it does surprise me that they were as successful as they were in terms of results.  We played them mid-season and I perceived it as a down year by their standards.  The 1997 SLU matchup was one of the highlights of my career.  Clarkson didn't have a goalkeeper coach back then. But, as a testament to how great a person coach Durocher is, he allowed Mike Toshack (current coach and former MLS keeper coach) to come over to Clarkson once a week and train our keepers.  With the game tied 1-1 in the second overtime, SLU played a diagonal ball into the box on the ground and SLU's striker was in behind our defense.  The striker used the angle of the pass to touch a shot towards the upper corner from about 14 yards out.  I'm sure I remember it being much better a save than it actually was but it was destined for the upper 90 before I pushed it over the crossbar to preserve the tie.  When I was getting up I looked over toward the SLU bench and saw Durocher mockingly hitting Toshack.  After the game Durocher said Tosh's privileges were revoked, but true to form Tosh was there the next week to train the keepers from his rivals team.  While Clarkson and SLU were always rivals back then (and still would be if we could get back to getting a result at least once a decade) I always felt a strong sense of brotherhood with them and truly enjoyed playing amongst many of the great saints players.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2018, 02:25:55 PM
For those of you getting a sandwich during the LL final halftime, check out the Colby-Williams pks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2018, 02:43:04 PM
St.Lawrence takes a 1-0 lead over Ithaca early 2nd Half and bubble teams can breathe easier for now. I just tuned in so I do not know how Ithaca has played today but I actually thought they would concede a few goals today. Ithaca has had problems defending when I have seen them this season but I have not seen them in a couple weeks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2018, 02:44:39 PM
Ithaca has been solid.  At least as solid as you'd expect someone to play on Sandy.  They've defended well and until that goal SLU hadn't generated any real chances.   Kelly has had a tremendous season and that goal was 100% a product of his run down the right flank.   SLU has retained a ton of possession but again, until that goal hadn't done much up to that point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2018, 02:55:12 PM
WOW...Ithaca draws even 1-1 on a fantastic header from a beauty of a cross...GK was left with no chance...1-1 about 29 minutes left...

BTW...Where are the guys that usually announce SLU stream?? These two are about as dour as listening to an insurance summit.....DUDE from the gut and give us some emotion.....damn
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2018, 02:56:41 PM
SLU doesn't have regular commentary.  It's done by students who cycle in an out due to graduation and what not. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2018, 02:58:06 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 04, 2018, 02:56:41 PM
SLU doesn't have regular commentary.  It's done by students who cycle in an out due to graduation and what not.

OK....but usually they have guys who are into it...IDK it is what it is......
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2018, 03:02:17 PM
SLU and Ithaca drew 0-0 in the regular season and it says both teams had about 16-20 Shots each but amazingly Ithaca had 3 SOG and SLU 2 SOG so not a ton on net...Entertaining game here though as it is starting to get stretched with both teams maybe starting to get a little leg heavy...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2018, 03:31:53 PM
Ithaca was very fortunate to get by RPI who dominated in every statistic but the one that counts.  Very resilient bunch.  I thought SLU would carry the day with ease today with all of their offensive firepower.  Credit to both sides for a really entertaining game. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2018, 03:38:42 PM
True that....Especially because all the pressure is on Ithaca as they must advance IMO...SLU is in anyhow and probably hosting for the 1st/2nd Round no matter what....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2018, 04:06:14 PM
SLU has traditionally been pretty awful at PKs, but either way hopefully both of these teams get bids.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2018, 04:09:03 PM
They look pretty clinical so far...2 for 2 GK had no chance...not to mention SLU GK with 2 Huge saves...Ithaca on its last leg

UPDATE: SLU GK another save....3 saves and Ithaca is finished....Good news for the Saints if they go to PK's in the NCAA's as they looked clinical today...3rd kicker was a bit unlucky but he crossed his body and hit it a bit to weak but still 3/4 is solid...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2018, 04:13:31 PM
SLU exercises their PK demons by winning the shootout.  Mike Smith was PHENOMENAL.  He's always been good on penalties, in fact he saved one against Oneonta earlier in the year that would have been an equalizer.   Ithaca deserves a bid but with NESCAC sucking up a lot of Pool C oxygen I don't know how it will play out. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2018, 06:42:26 PM
Congrats all you Saints fans.  Smith played out of his mind in the PKs and despite the early votes for tournament MVP, he should get it.  If Ithaca doesn't get in the system is totally fubar. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 05, 2018, 01:17:56 AM
Great day to be a Saint.
Something about this very special senior class I tell you.
More on the Saints later.

Ithaca IMO has to be in the Tournament.
A team that Played 20 games and lost 2 is a tournament team (Especially since they avenged one of those losses in the post season).
Bombers also went undefeated against ranked opponents as well.
The LL should have 2 bids as some conferences are expecting 4/5.

I think all 4 teams that played the LL Tourney this weekend are dance worthy teams, but Ithaca's consistency and quality is what a Pool C should be predicated on.
If they dont get in many Bombers, LL fans and just people wanting to watch the best teams will be quite upset.

Only time will tell.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 05, 2018, 01:15:35 PM
Pretty brutal draw for SLU. Rochester is one of the toughest places to play in the East Region. Fortunately, this squad looks to be more comfortable on turf than in years past. If SLU gets out of that pod, the rest of the field should watch out...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 05, 2018, 01:22:32 PM
I thought we'd be hosting.  Oh well.  To be the man you've got to beat the man.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 05, 2018, 01:24:31 PM
NESCAC gets six (!) teams in. We get one. Ithaca is not invited.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 05, 2018, 03:22:24 PM
That is soooo whack.  Big picture, how does the LL compete with the NESCAC or UAA for recruits when one out of 9 LL teams get in each year and over half of the UAA and NESCAC teams get in?  Now it certainly didn't help the LL this year to have the two semi-finalists finish with .500 records.  Williams selection over Ithaca is simply befuddling.  Ithaca beat the only NESCAC team it played, and didn't lose to a ranked team.  NESCAC's run in the playoffs last year was close to a total bust.  So much for my stream of consciousness.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on November 05, 2018, 04:06:55 PM
I have to say I am disappointed that Ithaca didn't get a chance to represent the LL in the tourney, but I did try to take a step back and try to see this from another (possibly less biased) point of view.  At first I thought it was ridiculous to give the NESCAC 6 bids, but in looking at the brackets for the last 10 years here is the tale of the tape for LL vs. NESCAC:

-Sweet 16 Teams: LL = 4 ; NESCAC = 19
-Elite 8 Teams: LL = 0 ; NESCAC = 13
-Final Four Teams: LL = 0 ; NESCAC = 8
-Finalist Teams: LL = 0 ; NESCAC = 3
-Championships: LL = 0 ; NESCAC = 3

My take away was that it is possible that in the eyes of the selection committee that respect is earned and based on the LL performance over the past 10 years I think I can make a case for why the NESCAC can get 6 while LL only gets 1.
I don't like it, but maybe the best way to change the minds is for a few deep runs into the tournament – So SLU – you're our only hope right now – Do us proud!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheGreenKnight920 on November 05, 2018, 04:15:21 PM
Quote from: CU_GKnight on November 05, 2018, 04:06:55 PM
I have to say I am disappointed that Ithaca didn't get a chance to represent the LL in the tourney, but I did try to take a step back and try to see this from another (possibly less biased) point of view.  At first I thought it was ridiculous to give the NESCAC 6 bids, but in looking at the brackets for the last 10 years here is the tale of the tape for LL vs. NESCAC:

-Sweet 16 Teams: LL = 4 ; NESCAC = 19
-Elite 8 Teams: LL = 0 ; NESCAC = 13
-Final Four Teams: LL = 0 ; NESCAC = 8
-Finalist Teams: LL = 0 ; NESCAC = 3
-Championships: LL = 0 ; NESCAC = 3




My take away was that it is possible that in the eyes of the selection committee that respect is earned and based on the LL performance over the past 10 years I think I can make a case for why the NESCAC can get 6 while LL only gets 1.
I don't like it, but maybe the best way to change the minds is for a few deep runs into the tournament – So SLU – you're our only hope right now – Do us proud!


Well, yeah, when the NESCAC gets a ridiculous amount of bids every year, they will eventually end up with higher win totals than conferences that usually only send the AQ. It's a broken "good-'ole-boys" system. When you have one-loss teams that are snubbed for a middle of the pack NESCAC or UAA team, red flags should be raised. At some point, losses have to matter.

As someone who is obviously bitter about this, I am definitely rooting for the LL to make noise in the tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 05, 2018, 05:27:42 PM
the Hamilton, Brockport and Cortland results were nice, but IC has to schedule better going forward. Alfred, Alfred State, Elmira and Wells are rancid and Oswego is "meh" at best. Gotta think that's why the Bombers were left out, ultimately.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 05, 2018, 05:36:30 PM
4 bids for LL women's soccer, btw. William Smith the regular season and tournament champion via Pool A, plus C's for Ithaca, RIT and even 9-7-1 Vassar, making its NCAA Tournament debut.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 05, 2018, 08:11:23 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 05, 2018, 05:27:42 PM
the Hamilton, Brockport and Cortland results were nice, but IC has to schedule better going forward. Alfred, Alfred State, Elmira and Wells are rancid and Oswego is "meh" at best. Gotta think that's why the Bombers were left out, ultimately.


AGREED...I said this a week ago but Ithaca has to get rid of some of these former Empire 8 rivals/opponents.....They are geographically convenient but there are to many of them. One or two more games with maybe an Oneonta OR just dropping 2 of those teams and not adding anyone else..It would be better to play 2 less teams rather then beating Alfred State and Wells. I will say Ithaca Head Coach Kyle Dezotell had a reputation back in his Norwich days to play about 3-4 games against HORRIBLE teams. It was 3-4 more games that he should of played. Almost like he was padding the Wins for his team to show his clueless AD what a fantastic final record they would achieve.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 05, 2018, 09:21:08 PM
it really is dumb. So many at least quasi-useful possible OOC opponents within a few hours of campus. Oneonta, Geneseo, Lyco, Naz, Fisher, Scranton...but no, let's keep playing paste-eaters like Elmira, who we joined the LL specifically to get away from.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 05, 2018, 09:37:56 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 05, 2018, 09:21:08 PM...but no, let's keep playing paste-eaters like Elmira, who we joined the LL specifically to get away from.

LOL, now this brings back a few memories.  Now, when did the glue stick replace paste in kindergarten anyway?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 06, 2018, 09:26:06 AM
I think it might be a good time for  the LL coaches to get together and figure out why they are a one bid league and ways in which they could remedy this situation.
Many great points have been made as to why the league has not received at large bids, the best I think was the sub par record of LL teams when they do dance in terms of making deep runs.

While this point sounds convincing, it has flaws as each season should be judged on its own merits and what this particular senior class and team have done this year.
Also using the past to make predictions is unfair as it cheats THIS CURRENT team of their chance to make their own history and improve upon the past teams accomplishments.


After more thought, I still think that Ithaca should have received a bid.

I also think that had they not received a bid, Williams, Rochester, etc would be very upset.
If I were an Oneonta supporter I would also be upset.
The point is, the only way to be sure is to not leave it up to someone else's view of your quality.

Good news is that Ithaca know they are a very good team and will want to come back even more determined to make things right.
The LL is a very very tough league, and to make it to the final in their second year is extremely impressive.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 06, 2018, 10:21:01 AM
Don't want to beat a dead bomber but...  Hero Sports has the LL with the 4th highest ranking behind UAA, NESCAC and NEWMAC.  They forgot to put SLU in the LL or we could be third, and without Bard definitely would be.  MIAC, and Centennial, lower ranked conferences, receive 4 and 3 bids respectively.  NEWMAC only received 1 as well. If there is any credibility to Hero's methodology, the favoritism shown some leagues this year is stark.  Now it didn't help that SLU was the highest ranked team and won the tourney.  If SLU loses in PKs we have two bids.   If either Hobart or RPI show pre-season we have multiple bids.  Maybe this is payback for the two years that the NCAA gifted bids to LL teams that didn't make the conference tournament.  Doubtful but one good injustice deserves another.  Anyway, Ithaca took it in the shorts and I am hopeful that SLU makes a run.  They were done no favors by the committee going to Rochester, although UR is a team they should regularly schedule.  In fact all the LL coaches should solicit more games with UAA and NESCAC teams.    SLU graduates a bunch of key players making RPI and Ithaca early favorites for next year.  Interestingly, the teams with the two of the largest rosters made the finals.  The Hobart horde model marches on.  Not to be redundant with an earlier comment about recruiting but the LL becomes a very hard sell with huge rosters and few bids.       
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on November 06, 2018, 10:51:23 AM
Saint – it seems like you and I are thinking about this in similar ways.  I would like to throw out a general question for thought to everyone.

I completely agree that each TEAM's performance should not carry from season to season as the team changes each season.  However, I think there may be some merit to considering the CONFERENCE's performance in the recent past, especially as a means of equating things that aren't easily compared.  It seems to make sense that if the goal is to put the best teams in the tourney then past performance by the conference may have merit. 

If you look at a conference like the Skyline who gets their AQ (and no consideration for Pool C beyond that) and promptly gets destroyed by a top seed resting its starters in the tourney. If a Skyline team had an undefeated regular season champion that lost in a shootout of their conference championship I don't see any value in looking to them as a Pool C as their conference has never shown itself to be competitive in the tourney.

On the opposite side of the coin, a conference like the NESCAC has shown that they have the ability to go deep with several different teams, so I would think that this track record should be considered if you want to put the best tournament field together.

I don't know much about St. Norberts, and I do hear what GreenKnight is saying, but at the end of the day I think it is valid to look to how their conference has fared in the past when stacked up against tournament caliber teams.  The quality of conferences does fluctuate from year to year, but I don't think they change that quickly.  So, if their conference is 0-10 in the tournament (I have no idea what the record is and don't have time for research) over the past decade then I would say that past performance has shown that having a high win% hasn't translated to tournament success.  However, a team like Williams (or other NESCACs) usually has a lower win% but a lot of success in the tournament historically.  If that were the case I would defer to the team from the conference that has shown the ability to win games against tournament caliber teams.

I think at the end of the day I can see merit to using the relative success of conferences in previous tournaments as a barometer of how they are likely to perform if given a chance in the current season and when comparing teams with much different resumes.  What do others think about this rationale?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 06, 2018, 01:01:43 PM
All-Liberty League ...

https://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2018/11/6/liberty-league-announces-2018-mens-soccer-awards-dede-named-player-of-the-year.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 06, 2018, 01:48:24 PM
SLU does want to play UR more regularly but UR always throws a fit over scheduling games back to back.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on December 01, 2018, 08:21:21 PM
Very happy for the SLU #6 and his selection as a first team All American.
The man is an all time Saint.
He came in as a replacement for a great #6 Seyfe Broak and improved upon near perfection in the position.During his 4 years in the league, he was one of the best #6, 7, and 8 and sometimes 10.
His will be big shoes to fill, as will 7,14,4,24,29 and the other seniors, including a goal keeper who helped the program get over its penalty shootout jinx.

Also big shout out to the Ithaca #1 who was selected a deserved AA.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on December 01, 2018, 09:48:56 PM
Hey Saint,

Any Saints playing Pro? Semi-Pro right now??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on December 02, 2018, 11:17:02 AM
A few from back in the late 90s early 00s were in the pro ranks.

Our big goalie was in the MLS for quite a while.

I think a recent(ish) number #10 who hails from MA was playing pro in Germany as well.

Really hoping that 6 and 7 or others from this years squad pursues a pro career.

urprisingly, guys who played with me who I thought would make good pros didnt choose it and vice versa...
Gotta just gve these things a shot while you can.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2018, 11:33:03 AM
Agreed....So DeMello is still playing? I was hoping you would say that because the kid was a stud and he was one player I always felt bad for with that injury in 2012 in his Senior year...Really liked his game....How bout Ryan Caruth? Did he ever play....I can think of a few others...Cannot remember the kids name but the tall blond striker who was nasty...anyhow
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 02, 2018, 11:42:56 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2018, 11:33:03 AM
Agreed....So DeMello is still playing? I was hoping you would say that because the kid was a stud and he was one player I always felt bad for with that injury in 2012 in his Senior year...Really liked his game....How bout Ryan Caruth? Did he ever play....I can think of a few others...Cannot remember the kids name but the tall blond striker who was nasty...anyhow

Spoke to DeMello's dad about a year ago and he was playing in a lower professional division in Europe.

With regard to the blond striker, are you thinking of Brendan Gorman or someone who played earlier than he?  If Gorman, he did the ACL twice during his SLU career, and I don't think he returned after the second one.  Prior to that, he was playing PDL in the summer for Ottawa Fury.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on December 02, 2018, 12:06:05 PM
Gorman and Mello actually played together at SLU.
Very strong combination...
Unfortunately one or both of them kept getting hurt.

Carruth was another player who had his career cut short by injuries.
He had a short pro career before recurring injuries (that started from SLU) cut it short.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on December 02, 2018, 12:35:46 PM
I know Gorman was a nasty player but no I am talking about a striker that played at SLU probably after Saint and before Caruth...I cannot remember his name for the life of me...I also could have my time periods screwed up. Yes I know none of that was very helpful...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on December 02, 2018, 01:24:30 PM
You are referencing the Enigma wrapped in a puzzle that transferred from UConn.
#14 during Carruth's era, very good player.
Played his HS ball at Choate as well.
Good finisher, very speedy kid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 02, 2018, 01:38:38 PM
Saint, just sent you a PM.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on December 05, 2018, 11:14:55 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2018, 11:33:03 AM
Agreed....So DeMello is still playing? I was hoping you would say that because the kid was a stud and he was one player I always felt bad for with that injury in 2012 in his Senior year...Really liked his game....How bout Ryan Caruth? Did he ever play....I can think of a few others...Cannot remember the kids name but the tall blond striker who was nasty...anyhow

DeMello is not paying anymore. Back stateside.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on December 10, 2018, 06:07:49 AM
I have a question for a few of the folks who've been around a while and seen SLU play over the past 20+ years. I have had this nagging feeling about the program over the past few seasons and wanted to get others thoughts.  This question is not meant to antagonize or be critical in any way of the program as I have tremendous respect for the coaching staff over the years and many of the players.  The past few posts about past Saints in the pros brought this back to the front of my consciousness.

I played against SLU from 1993-1997 and also spent a lot of time with their players as I had some friends that played there, even playing at their fieldhouse a number of times in the off season. I also followed them closely through 1999 when I moved to NC. By the way – good thing the final four was last weekend as Greensboro had a foot of snow this weekend and we don't do snow removal don't here.  I then picked up watching them again about 7 or 8 years ago when their games were streamed and I couldn't bear to watch the product Clarkson was putting on the field – so I became a reluctant Saints fan.  So much so that my son (who was 5 or 6 at the time) had SLU losing in his make-believe penalty kick shootouts.  Thank you, Mike Smith for exorcising that demon.

Since starting to watch them after a 10+ year gap, I noticed a few things seemed to have changed from the way I remember them.  It seemed as though the Saints had lost their intense attack first mentality.  In the mid/late 1990's, while playing the same "total football" style that they are known for, they had a ruthless aggression to take defenders on. It seems like the more recent teams are more complacent and are happy to knock the ball around until they get there one opportunity to take on a player and try to beat them.  I just think what made those teams leading up to the National Championship in 1999 so special was that they played total football but actually looked to get a team in a slight mismatch and then take the player on and have a run at goal.  I just don't see that same "eye of the tiger" (for any Rocky enthusiasts out here) mentality from the recent teams.

Hearing Saint of Old talk about Dede as an all-time Saint rings a little hollow with me.  No disrespect to Mr. Dede (as I think he is a truly gifted player and has a great season and career) but I just don't see him stacking up against some of the greats from the mid-1990's-early 2000's.  As a keeper I had the opportunity to play against the likes of Manny Brito, Andre White, Danny Annan and Ryan Carruth with players like Ali Montacer and Jamal Ballantyne being just a step below them (or maybe I only saw them in their early years before they truly blossomed as players).  With those players I was scared to death any time they received a ball with their back to the goal in my end of the field.  I just don't get that feeling watching any of the current lot of players, including Jethro. To me, with a little bit of pressure from behind, 99% of the time the current players will look to go backwards with the ball. I just wanted to get anyone else who has seen them over the same time periods thoughts on this to see if what I was seeing had any validity.  This, to me, explains the drop off from the years where they struck fear into any other team in the country, to being just another talented team.

Also, for arguments sake, if I had to put together an all-time Saints XI team (regardless of position but with some balance) it would be Greg Sutton, Nick Hillary, Franco Bari, Harry Copeland, Ali Montacer, Jamal Ballantyne, Sam DeMello , Ryan Carruth, Manny Brito, Andre White and Danny Annan with Andrew Bednarsky and Cris Napolitano (who was one of the most underrated players I've ever seen) being the last ones left off.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TyWebb on December 10, 2018, 10:34:34 AM
Quote from: CU_GKnight on December 10, 2018, 06:07:49 AM
Also, for arguments sake, if I had to put together an all-time Saints XI team (regardless of position but with some balance) it would be Greg Sutton, Nick Hillary, Franco Bari, Harry Copeland, Ali Montacer, Jamal Ballantyne, Sam DeMello , Ryan Carruth, Manny Brito, Andre White and Danny Annan with Andrew Bednarsky and Cris Napolitano (who was one of the most underrated players I've ever seen) being the last ones left off.

CU_GKnight thanks for the history of SLU soccer. It prompted me to go to the SLU men's soccer page and look at the all-time records after reading your comments.  One name you mentioned that jumped out at me was Manny Brito. Manny has coached my sons at the club level on a few occasions. I had no idea he had such a storied career at SLU and had played first division football in Portugal for Academica. Manny is a true gentlemen and has always been someone I respect highly in the soccer profession. SLU can be proud of him as one of their own.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on December 10, 2018, 01:00:52 PM
Quote from: TyWebb on December 10, 2018, 10:34:34 AM
Quote from: CU_GKnight on December 10, 2018, 06:07:49 AM
Also, for arguments sake, if I had to put together an all-time Saints XI team (regardless of position but with some balance) it would be Greg Sutton, Nick Hillary, Franco Bari, Harry Copeland, Ali Montacer, Jamal Ballantyne, Sam DeMello , Ryan Carruth, Manny Brito, Andre White and Danny Annan with Andrew Bednarsky and Cris Napolitano (who was one of the most underrated players I've ever seen) being the last ones left off.

CU_GKnight thanks for the history of SLU soccer. It prompted me to go to the SLU men's soccer page and look at the all-time records after reading your comments.  One name you mentioned that jumped out at me was Manny Brito. Manny has coached my sons at the club level on a few occasions. I had no idea he had such a storied career at SLU and had played first division football in Portugal for Academica. Manny is a true gentlemen and has always been someone I respect highly in the soccer profession. SLU can be proud of him as one of their own.
Our great African Striker.
This guy still holds the record for most goals in one single season ever (16) since 1996 his senior year
Granted, he had another AA, Andre While feeding him but still every impressive, it will be a great Saint who ends up breaking that record. God knows many of us have tried and failed. He is an absolutely amazing player, and more importantly a kind and caring person.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on December 10, 2018, 01:13:38 PM
Quote from: CU_GKnight on December 10, 2018, 06:07:49 AM
I have a question for a few of the folks who've been around a while and seen SLU play over the past 20+ years. I have had this nagging feeling about the program over the past few seasons and wanted to get others thoughts.  This question is not meant to antagonize or be critical in any way of the program as I have tremendous respect for the coaching staff over the years and many of the players.  The past few posts about past Saints in the pros brought this back to the front of my consciousness.

I played against SLU from 1993-1997 and also spent a lot of time with their players as I had some friends that played there, even playing at their fieldhouse a number of times in the off season. I also followed them closely through 1999 when I moved to NC. By the way – good thing the final four was last weekend as Greensboro had a foot of snow this weekend and we don't do snow removal don't here.  I then picked up watching them again about 7 or 8 years ago when their games were streamed and I couldn't bear to watch the product Clarkson was putting on the field – so I became a reluctant Saints fan.  So much so that my son (who was 5 or 6 at the time) had SLU losing in his make-believe penalty kick shootouts.  Thank you, Mike Smith for exorcising that demon.

Since starting to watch them after a 10+ year gap, I noticed a few things seemed to have changed from the way I remember them.  It seemed as though the Saints had lost their intense attack first mentality.  In the mid/late 1990's, while playing the same "total football" style that they are known for, they had a ruthless aggression to take defenders on. It seems like the more recent teams are more complacent and are happy to knock the ball around until they get there one opportunity to take on a player and try to beat them.  I just think what made those teams leading up to the National Championship in 1999 so special was that they played total football but actually looked to get a team in a slight mismatch and then take the player on and have a run at goal.  I just don't see that same "eye of the tiger" (for any Rocky enthusiasts out here) mentality from the recent teams.

Hearing Saint of Old talk about Dede as an all-time Saint rings a little hollow with me.  No disrespect to Mr. Dede (as I think he is a truly gifted player and has a great season and career) but I just don't see him stacking up against some of the greats from the mid-1990's-early 2000's.  As a keeper I had the opportunity to play against the likes of Manny Brito, Andre White, Danny Annan and Ryan Carruth with players like Ali Montacer and Jamal Ballantyne being just a step below them (or maybe I only saw them in their early years before they truly blossomed as players).  With those players I was scared to death any time they received a ball with their back to the goal in my end of the field.  I just don't get that feeling watching any of the current lot of players, including Jethro. To me, with a little bit of pressure from behind, 99% of the time the current players will look to go backwards with the ball. I just wanted to get anyone else who has seen them over the same time periods thoughts on this to see if what I was seeing had any validity.  This, to me, explains the drop off from the years where they struck fear into any other team in the country, to being just another talented team.

Also, for arguments sake, if I had to put together an all-time Saints XI team (regardless of position but with some balance) it would be Greg Sutton, Nick Hillary, Franco Bari, Harry Copeland, Ali Montacer, Jamal Ballantyne, Sam DeMello , Ryan Carruth, Manny Brito, Andre White and Danny Annan with Andrew Bednarsky and Cris Napolitano (who was one of the most underrated players I've ever seen) being the last ones left off.
I have to give you a plus K even though you publicly disagreed with me regarding a certain #6 my friend.
Ali ended up being a three time AA, but in my opinion was one of the best players on the team and league since his freshman year.
Ryan had a great career that was shattered by injuries, much like Sam and Gorman a decade later.
I think your post speaks a truth that could only be completely understood by someone who has worn the Scarlet and Brown, or followed the program closely for quite a while.
First, you are spot on with your assesment of Chris Napalitano. Dude was a worker and a player.
It is difficult to play with reckless abandon  on offense offense, but I agree, this was the rule and not the exception in years past, while still remaining under control and possesing for a majority of the game.
There were many mantras during the Saint run that started around 94.
"Eat the Food" (Win the Championship)
"On the Jog"  (No walking permitted at practice, at any time".
"Here we go Blue"
The one that I think we might have to focus on is "Posses and Penetrate".
We are still possesing quite well, but the penetration is key to success.

I do think that we are working towards this, and with  a big class, more than likely, coming in this will be the goal to go harder forward and less negative passes.

All that being said, I have to congratulate the new coaching staff on a good season and once again winning the league and tourney double.
As seen in the Brockport loss though, the team has to play more consistently up the field, or risk giving up more goals like the one that ended our season.

As for the #6...
I feel like he would have been used a bit differently had he played a decade or 2 ago, and also, not many players, from memory have won back to back league MVPs in program history.

I did predict he would do that since his first game with the team, so I might be a bit biased in my opinion and view of the kid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on December 10, 2018, 03:15:52 PM
I didn't intend to throw shade on #6's accomplishments as they are impressive and well deserved, nor did I intend to question your assessment of him. 

Looking back on it I seem to be transitioning into the old man category where I start everything with "When I was a kid...." But was curious if anyone else had noticed that they had seemed to play more complacently without the desire to take on a player they were most likely much better than and just push it back to a supporting player.  It is also hard to get a grasp for the game on video as opposed to in person and my perspective playing the game as a keeper was much different than the sideline cam offers.  My general sense on video was that Dede didn't seem to be as dangerous a player as some of the programs past greats.  It seemed that while Dede was always capable of moments of brilliance he could be contained for large portions of games.  Some of the players I mentioned, especially Brito and White were dangerous every time they touched the ball and you never felt like you could contain them when playing against them.

As for Ali I will be the first to admit it may not be the most reliable assessment and may have been relative to the situation.  Thinking back I think he may have been the one to score the goal on me in 1997 off a corner.  It may have been relative as I would say it would be clear that after dealing with Many and Andre for 4 years and them leaving as seniors, playing against Ali Montacer a handful of games into his freshman campaign may seem like a step down.  I never really saw him beyond 1997 and the first two NCAA tourney games in 1998 (where I don't remember him standing out), but he certainly garnered the accolades and i'm sure was as good as billed.

TyWebb - I have played against a lot of great players, but I have seen very few players with the skill and tenacity of Manny Brito.  I saw him do things I have seen very few other players at any level be able to do, and some of the goals he scored were truly remarkable world class strikes.  Also, as was mentioned, the few times we did interact outside of soccer he was a consummate gentleman.  I'm glad to hear he is still involved in the game and passing on his insight to the next generation of players.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 30, 2019, 01:53:11 PM
Not as caught up on my Saints as I normally am due to being very busy these days, but I am hearing that the International flavor is coming back to Saint Nation.

Our International players have long been a big part of the program. There is  a promising young Brazilian lefty already on the squad as well.
A much younger team this year after graduating a very good senior class who had an amazing 4 year run.

Looking forward to seeing what RPI, Vassar and the rest of the Boyz in the league will have as well.
This league should have had 3 teams  dancing last year and might this year depending on how the non-league season plays out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 11, 2019, 12:14:11 PM
Ithaca and Hobart have decided to up the ante on their SOS and schedule opening weekend games with Messiah and UAA squad NYU. A great way to gauge the strength of the league early with the hope that more than one invite is extended in November.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 23, 2019, 08:09:56 PM
Bard will be very strong in 2 years.
You heard it here first.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TyWebb on August 24, 2019, 08:31:37 PM
Saint that's a big statement. Is it your believe in the new coach or have they brought in some better talent this year? Bard has really struggled to get any traction in the Liberty League. Even three or four years ago when they fielded somewhat competitive teams (by Bard's standards), I don't think they ever won more than a game in the LL.  I've kept on eye on Bard because Former head coach Jackson saw my son play in a tournament and made a pretty strong push for him. The school wasn't a good fit, but what a nice setting the campus has there on the Hudson.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 25, 2019, 02:16:52 PM
I think it is as you mentioned, they have a very nice campus, great location and more importantly a coach with an established pipeline and record of winning now on board.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 26, 2019, 03:31:23 PM
Saint--if your prognostication is correct Bard better have a crackerjack freshman class.  They are already starting behind the 8 ball with only 15 returning players in a league which, based on last year's results, rewards a legion approach to soccer.  Hobart, at the other extreme has 28 returners.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 27, 2019, 07:19:20 AM
28 WOW.
During my playing days I dont remember our entire squad ever being more than 25 players.

Things and times sure do change.

I think Bard will now have an established pipeline with NYC players.
It is all about reputation of the coach in this game.
More than any other sport, the team will copy the coach's demeaner and personality.
I think that now the league will really be competitive from top to bottom.
There is really not a bad team.  RPI and Vassar have won it before and are seemingly always strong in league play.
Hobart is a top tier team in the league and Ithaca, despite being a new comer to the league in 17 were just one penalty make away from being champions last season.
Hard to say that a team that won the double and played in the NCAA last season have to improve, but they must.
To have any hope of having National prominence this year, SLU has to cease an desist with possessing the soccer ball in its final third of the field.
"Possess and Penetrate" must become the ethos once again for this team.
The playing with the ball in the back FOR NO APPARENT REASON is the reason the seniors went home early last year and they will again unless the team becomes more fluid and penetrates with possession UPFIELD.
Anyway, my point is that this league will be fun to watch and should have atleast two teams dancing (I hope).
The Bombers should have really got an invite last season, but hoping it will inspire them to go for more in 2019.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 29, 2019, 10:40:30 AM
Skidmore hits the roster size jackpot so far at 38 followed closely by SLU at 36 and Hobart at 35.  Those are crazy numbers. To have over 2/3 of your players on the sidelines at all times has got to be demoralizing for those players who will rarely see the pitch. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 29, 2019, 11:36:15 AM
I really dont see a need to go over 30 honestly.

Call me old school  if you want, but in soccer 30 is good enough and thats counting 3 goalies.
Even if you lose 2-3 plaers to injury.
I mean if you cannot get into your squads 30 man team then it means you did not show the coach enough to include you or the coach just does not think you did... this is coming from a person who was  right there with you as well at one point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 30, 2019, 11:37:06 AM
The Skidmore coaching staff must have heard you.  Their 38 man roster two days ago is now done to 30.  In terms of season predictions, I have Hobart first with 12 returning seniors and Ithaca second with impact players returning across the pitch.  It is appropriate that these two squads square off with Messiah this weekend.  It will provide a good sense of the overall strength of the league.  For SLU to return to the dance will require a coaching miracle given its losses to graduation.  For all the excitement of winning the league title, one and done with that group of seniors was a major disappointment.  While I didn't think it was possible, Union's non-conference schedule is even softer than it has been in previous years.  The plus for me in looking at their schedules is that I learn the names of colleges I never knew existed.  I expect RPI and RIT in the 3 and 4 spots but based on the past few years for the LL to get more than two berths in the dance would require divine intervention.  After that I have SLU and Vassar getting the last two spots in the LL tourney with Clarkson looking to be the spoiler.  Let the games begin.       
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on August 30, 2019, 01:05:47 PM
Going off on a slight tangent, Hartwick's move to D3 continues to be interesting.  Their roster has only 16 players, including 10 freshman. I suspect they won't be much trouble for STLU, or even Bard for that matter.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 30, 2019, 03:04:03 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 30, 2019, 11:37:06 AM
The Skidmore coaching staff must have heard you.  Their 38 man roster two days ago is now done to 30.  In terms of season predictions, I have Hobart first with 12 returning seniors and Ithaca second with impact players returning across the pitch.  It is appropriate that these two squads square off with Messiah this weekend.  It will provide a good sense of the overall strength of the league.  For SLU to return to the dance will require a coaching miracle given its losses to graduation.  For all the excitement of winning the league title, one and done with that group of seniors was a major disappointment.  While I didn't think it was possible, Union's non-conference schedule is even softer than it has been in previous years.  The plus for me in looking at their schedules is that I learn the names of colleges I never knew existed.  I expect RPI and RIT in the 3 and 4 spots but based on the past few years for the LL to get more than two berths in the dance would require divine intervention.  After that I have SLU and Vassar getting the last two spots in the LL tourney with Clarkson looking to be the spoiler.  Let the games begin.       

Extremely intelligent post.
I do agree that any team who finishes ahead of the Bombers will win the league.
There is nothing in sports more dangerous than a pissed off team.
Ithaca knew they were an NCAA team last year and they did not get an invite.
They cannot take out their frustrations on the Dance Committee but they can on the league... and I can see them doing that.

I do disagree on your assessment of the Saints and any other team based on graduating players, the game has evolved to the point where freshmen are coming into the league and playing like grown men.
I thought SLU's last African Soccer King #6 Jethro Dede was the best player in the league his entire 4 years at SLU.
He did get back to back POY of the league his Sr and Jr years, cannot recall another player doing this off the top of my head.
Another African King was Dan Annan who captained the team to a National Championship in the late 90s was also a gem of a player. Annan continued the legacy of fellow West African Mani Brito who still owns the scoring record from the 1996 season.
In between those 2 we had perhaps our greatest African General Macky Diop who led the team to a Final 4 in 2002 and perhaps would have led them to the promiseland had he and the other great player on that squad (Shawn Watson) Macky played with a smile on his face literally. I have never seen anyone (Besides Ronalldhino) do that had not missed the crucial semi at home v. Messiah....
Anyway, there is yet another African star donning the Saint midfield this year who might join the tradition of players I just mentioned.

I see SLU getting the first or 2nd seed based on the above.

Hobart is always strong and they will be 3rd
Skidmore will be disappointed by last year and make a push for 4th
Vassar will finish 5th. They have some talented upperclassmen who have been giving it to the league since freshman year.
6th place is tough but the alphabet soup of RIT and RPI will be fighting it out with the edge going to RPI who always seem to win the games they must down the stretch.

Bard will be there next season and Clarkson are still a year or two away.
What a league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 30, 2019, 09:20:34 PM
Hobart 1, #5 Messiah 0. Look at you, Statesdudes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on August 31, 2019, 11:36:41 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 30, 2019, 09:20:34 PM
Hobart 1, #5 Messiah 0. Look at you, Statesdudes.
Inspired by the new branding 🤣. Seriously ,Coach Griffin gets the most out of his players, and is a great coach to play for. Beware Liberty League, the Statesmen are back this year!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 31, 2019, 01:50:40 PM
St. Lawrence 2-0 down at home and playing the ball through the Goal Keeper.

Is this a joke... This style of soccer will lose many games.
PLAY FWD... The concept is not difficult.
Not sure if these boys dont understand that the point of the game is to go fwd and score or not??? NO one cares about possession unless it results in goals. Jeesh.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 31, 2019, 02:24:33 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 31, 2019, 01:50:40 PM
St. Lawrence 2-0 down at home and playing the ball through the Goal Keeper.

Is this a joke... This style of soccer will lose many games.
PLAY FWD... The concept is not difficult.
Not sure if these boys dont understand that the point of the game is to go fwd and score or not??? NO one cares about possession unless it results in goals. Jeesh.

Very frustrating.  Bad first touch let us down as well.  To be fair to Otterbein they looked decent, didn't make a lot of mistakes.   But after last year's tournament lost against Brockport you'd think we'd "tighten that **** up", in the words of Aaron Boone.    Also, Clarkson might be better than I thought.  2 impressive wins this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 31, 2019, 02:26:43 PM
The entire league is good his year.
RPI wins
Hobart Beats Messiah
Ithaca wins.

Could be a long year  unless some changes begin to be made.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on August 31, 2019, 05:40:59 PM
Statesmen go 2-0 with a 2-1 double OT win over  NYU . Both Ithaca and Hobart go 2-0 against Messiah and NYU .....LL Power!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Domino1195 on August 31, 2019, 06:52:24 PM
Quote from: stlawus on August 31, 2019, 02:24:33 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 31, 2019, 01:50:40 PM
St. Lawrence 2-0 down at home and playing the ball through the Goal Keeper.

Is this a joke... This style of soccer will lose many games.
PLAY FWD... The concept is not difficult.
Not sure if these boys dont understand that the point of the game is to go fwd and score or not??? NO one cares about possession unless it results in goals. Jeesh.

Very frustrating.  Bad first touch let us down as well.  To be fair to Otterbein they looked decent, didn't make a lot of mistakes.   But after last year's tournament lost against Brockport you'd think we'd "tighten that **** up", in the words of Aaron Boone.    Also, Clarkson might be better than I thought.  2 impressive wins this weekend.

Watched most of the game - but not getting 2,3 goals in the first - they had chances - and then Otterbein getting that fluky first goal seemed to rattle SLU. Second half I thought they lost patience and tried to force things.

But shocked at the result.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 31, 2019, 07:01:42 PM
Kudos to Hobart and Ithaca for putting the LL back on the national map with honorable mentions to RIT and Clarkson.  Last time LL had 3 bids was 2012.  Not out of the question now but what is unthinkable is that the LL could receive 3 bids and SLU not be one of them.  The Otterbein result at home is a horrible result.  Clarkson had the better of Otterbein and despite Coach Tosch propping them, Otterbein will be a middle of the pack OAC team this year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerfan111 on September 02, 2019, 10:40:09 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 31, 2019, 01:50:40 PM
St. Lawrence 2-0 down at home and playing the ball through the Goal Keeper.

Is this a joke... This style of soccer will lose many games.
PLAY FWD... The concept is not difficult.
Not sure if these boys dont understand that the point of the game is to go fwd and score or not??? NO one cares about possession unless it results in goals. Jeesh.

I hear you Saint of Old. Even at the highest level this weekend (Manchester United vs  Southampton), Southampton's best chances were when Man United would try and play out of the back when they were under pressure. There is a very fine line (but a very big difference) between playing out of the back under significant pressure and playing out of the back under so-so pressure. I don't understand the infatuation with wanting to play possession in your own defensive third. The risk vs. reward isn't there. Yes, playing good soccer and keeping the ball is the way to go, but do it in the middle of the field and the attacking third. If nothing is on, play it long into a 1v1 situation and go from there. Worst case, get up the field and win it back on the other half. It's extremely frustrating to watch (at any level) and I hope the Saints figure out that connecting the most passes doesn't win a game. You win by going forward. The genius of the and is keeping the all and penetrating.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on September 03, 2019, 05:13:12 AM
Since roster size had been mentioned here and a few other threads talked about playing time, I found the box score for Clarkson's games quite interesting. In a pair of tight wins (2-1 and 2-0) they played 28 different players, 26 got more than 20 total minutes and only 5 had more than 100 minutes on the weekend.  I'm not sure that it means anything, but I did find it to be interesting...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 03, 2019, 11:43:50 AM
I admit in the heat of the moment my comments  may have been a bit overly blunt, but after a wile there is not much one can do but to call it out.

Generally speaking it was a mixed bag for the Saints over the weekend.
We have a quality player who can replace Dede if he works hard as he has his entire career up to this point.

The style of play is baked in at this point and has been evolving for 5 years now, so complaining about that wont do much good or change anything.

My concern is that I am waiting to see a few very talented players  who have played in this team for more than a season at this point sometimes 2 to make that next step.
The seniors will play like seniors, thats never a concern. When these boys see the end of the road a fire always gets lit under the a$s.

The sophomore and junior classes must step up and produce. This year will mean alot for the program and really show where the future is headed.
The boys are all quality players but already after 1 weekend there is very very little room for error at this point.

This league has teams like HOBART/ITHACA and now Clarkson  making a serious push with a good goalie and backline.

I am looking forward to a great season from the boys in red and will try to be much more reserved  and objective in my analysis, but it is very very tough to do sometimes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 03, 2019, 01:04:39 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 03, 2019, 11:43:50 AM
The seniors will play like seniors, thats never a concern. When these boys see the end of the road a fire always gets lit under the a$s.

That's not always the case. I've followed D3 sports for four decades, and what I've observed is that some seniors play exactly the way that you described, while others do the exact opposite -- they appear to be coasting or disengaged. That's because senior year for a kid at a D3 school is the year in which he or she focuses in on the next major step in life coming up after graduation, be it the first real job, applying for graduate school, relationship decisions (up to and including engagement and an impending wedding), etc. For the vast majority of D3 student-athletes, there is no professional sports career on the horizon to strive towards, and thus no athletic future that drives present performance, aside from whatever in-season goals he or she has. D3 student-athletes are getting ready for life, not for a possible paycheck as a pro jock. And senior year can be so overwhelming with that impending transition that it can mentally crowd out the sport the student-athlete plays.

Admittedly, this is typically less of a problem with fall-sport student-athletes, including soccer players, than it is with winter- and spring-sport student-athletes. But I've still seen plenty of soccer players tune out a bit (or even a lot) in their senior seasons, and it's usually not hard to figure out why.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on September 03, 2019, 01:16:54 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 03, 2019, 01:04:39 PM
But I've still seen plenty of soccer players tune out a bit (or even a lot) in their senior seasons, and it's usually not hard to figure out why.

Maybe it's sometimes due to the coach being an a*hole.  Or maybe the coach decides to insert 4 new starters into a team that was 15-5 the previous year and was returning 10 starters. And maybe one of those new players is the son of a school administrator who is just not that good, and now you've got 4 new players ruining the team chemistry. And just maybe, the seniors get fed up with the whole thing.

Just a possible reason ;-)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 03, 2019, 04:02:46 PM
That sounds like a remarkably specific hypothetical example. :D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 04, 2019, 01:19:49 PM
Yes EB, that hypothetical sounds awfully real.  The two games of the week next weekend are SLU/Oneonta and Vassar/Stevens.  These are must win games for both LL teams if they have any hope of a NCAA wildcard.  SLU's loss to Otterbein has put them in a hole with highly ranked Cortland in their future.  Vassar doesn't have the SOS SLU does, and also has been missing their top scorer for the past three years in their first two games.  Hopefully for the Brewers he returns for Stevens and thereafter.  Interesting call for offensive player of the week.  The League chooses an Ithaca midfielder with two goals, one being a deflection off a clearance, versus a Skidmore forward with 5 goals and a Union forward with a season worth of points in his first two games.  Kudos to the LL who I have criticized sometimes in the past for their choices.  Showing against some of the nation's toughest teams is far more significant than scoring oodles of points against the meek and weak, imho.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 04, 2019, 03:39:40 PM
 EB's post proves that IF NOT  for the senior(s) he refers to getting  screwed... they would be ready to ball their senior year.
I get the point that as a senior the major life transition around the corner will take the attention of many players.
I think that our game is different.
There are many of us who grew up loving that little round thing as much as life itself.
Soccer to many of us is not just a sport, and as opposed to winding down and looking to transition our senior year we try so very hard to squeeze every ounce of playing game time/time with the boyz/locker room time etc out before our careers end.

True story, the last game of my junior year my team won a National championship and my senior captain began weeping like a small child.
@first I thought it strange since we just climbed the mountain and his last memory as a player would be as a winner.
A year later I realized that the most important word in the last sentence was "LAST".
It hurts hard to hang it up, and i think innately the seniors, or most seniors get this.

For most of us here Senior year was perhaps our best... maybe not in minutes played or points scored, but atleast effort given... which is maybe the most important part of soccer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 07, 2019, 04:04:49 PM
3 minutes into this SLU Oneonta game and I'm channeling my inner Saint of Old.  I'm going out my mind watching us play the ball backwards.  We had the ball just on the edge of Oneonta's final third and passed backwards. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 07, 2019, 04:18:07 PM
Gonna be a long season for this SLU squad. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 07, 2019, 04:18:38 PM
Its starting to become hard to watch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 07, 2019, 04:22:36 PM
The Red Dragons literally sliced us open to score that last goal.
I dont get it... We do not play with any sort of offensive mind set and yet get carved up so easily on D.

I have to simply stop commenting because I am just very very disappointed at this point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 07, 2019, 04:25:34 PM
We're playing 3 at the back but midfielders were not tracking back on that goal. Now in the last 2 minutes we possess going forward and get 2 shots on goal.   What a concept.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 07, 2019, 04:38:58 PM
80% of Saint passes are backwards.
Teams have figured this out and simply sit back and pick us off...
Strikers dont make imaginative runs because they know the ball will simply be passed back.

If your #1 constantly has more touches than your #7, $10 and #8, then your team has a PROBLEM.
This soccer wont work.
Im done, signed off.
Its a joke in Canton right now.
Sad to say.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 07, 2019, 04:39:22 PM
For the first time in 6 years I am turning off a SLU game before halftime.   This is simply atrocious and Toshack's stubbornness to change anything has cost us a season before league play even started.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 07, 2019, 04:41:22 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 07, 2019, 04:38:58 PM
80% of Saint passes are backwards.
Teams have figured this out and simply sit back and pick us off...
Strikers dont make imaginative runs because they know the ball will simply be passed back.

If your #1 constantly has more touches than your #7, $10 and #8, then your team has a PROBLEM.
This soccer wont work.
Im done, signed off.
Its a joke in Canton right now.
Sad to say.
I said what I just did before the 3rd goal and that is exactly how they just scored...
If I can see it, why cant the players and coach????
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 07, 2019, 04:57:30 PM
Quote from: stlawus on September 07, 2019, 04:39:22 PM
For the first time in 6 years I am turning off a SLU game before halftime.   This is simply atrocious and Toshack's stubbornness to change anything has cost us a season before league play even started.
First time in 28 years Saints down 3 goals at the half...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 07, 2019, 05:11:20 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 07, 2019, 04:57:30 PM
Quote from: stlawus on September 07, 2019, 04:39:22 PM
For the first time in 6 years I am turning off a SLU game before halftime.   This is simply atrocious and Toshack's stubbornness to change anything has cost us a season before league play even started.
First time in 28 years Saints down 3 goals at the half...

That's literally my life span.   Woof.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on September 07, 2019, 05:47:34 PM
Hobart lost to William Paterson less than a minute into OT, ouch

looks like Bard lost 1-0 to SUNY Canton on an own goal, again ouch

Skidmore up to +9 GD on the season with a 3-0 clean sheet against Fisher

Union pumped in five to rout Manhattanville
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 08, 2019, 07:32:26 AM
I will continue my Grumpy old Saint demeanor I have began the 2019  season with:

Union has to play better competition.
When you have a difficult league it is good to play people from PA/SUNYAC or NESCAC as preparation for the league season. Doing the same thing each season will bring the same results.

Bard should be much better this year and in years to come I think. Canton has been improving as a team each year.
No shame in losing to them in OT.
Hobart will be good, they are rarely a team that has very few losses for some reason, but they remain very dangerous when it gets cold.
Skidmore might have something to say in the league.
They were finalists in 16+17 before taking a slight step back last season.
I still would consider them a top tier team in this league as they always come to play.

Is it too late to amend our league predictions :} ?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 08, 2019, 06:23:02 PM
Not a.good weekend for the Liberty League as most of the matches against quality opponents go the other way with some losses to inferior opponents as well. Plattsburgh's goalie gifts Hobart the championship game which they then cede to a mediocre William Paterson. Clarkson fouls its way out of a contest with Brockport. Vasser loses its goalie to a red in a lackluster tie with Manhattanville and his replacement lets in Stevens only shot on goal for the loss. Ithaca lets the Merchant Marine set sail and SLU looks like the mediocre team it is in its loss to Oneonta. Union and Skidmore are still undefeated with a huge asterisk.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 12, 2019, 03:12:29 PM
Saint.....Watched the incredible documentary about Nick Hillary on HBO...Had no idea the full story behind it but if anyone wants a look into our f'd up criminal justice system they should take a look....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 12, 2019, 03:30:35 PM
News and Notes:


-I thought RPI battled well in a 2-1 victory over Williams last night. They showed better than the past few years IMO. They still struggle in all the same areas but have enough talent to keep them in every game they play the rest of the way.

-BTW---If the LL only gets 1-2 teams into the NCAA's no one should put more blame at Jeff Guinn's doorstep..Even for him , that schedule is ridiculous and only brings the whole league down.

-We all saw the improvement from Ithaca the past 2 years but now everything seems to be coming together for Kyle Dezotell's squad. Some really nice non-conference Wins along with a loaded schedule of tough games. This is an NCAA team if they continue at this pace. I am starting to think Middlebury and really Saward made a big mistake in not giving its former player a real look at the job when it opened. Dezotell had way more experience than Elias and I am sure was slighted over not getting a look. However, he and Saward must not have been that close also I think there was   an incident that happened when Dezotell was at Norwich. Either way Dezotell is proving that when given the support by administration and having the size of an Ithaca certainly helps but he is now building a winner.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 12, 2019, 03:40:38 PM
Mr. Right--welcome back.  As usual you and Saint are right, the Hillary prosecution was a travesty.  There was also a good Netflix documentary on the Central Park Five wrongly pursued by a Vassar grad prosecutor who ultimately left their Board of Trustees.  As a NESCAC and Liberty expert I want to get your take on Williams.  I watched the Tufts game and thought they looked very good against the National champs.  Last night they gave up two goals to RPI, one a ridiculously bad giveaway by a defender, and the second the result of bad marking and a lost defender.  Is Williams and therefore RPI for real or did they overachieve against Tufts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 12, 2019, 03:50:26 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 12, 2019, 03:40:38 PM
Mr. Right--welcome back.  As usual you and Saint are right, the Hillary prosecution was a travesty.  There was also a good Netflix documentary on the Central Park Five wrongly pursued by a Vassar grad prosecutor who ultimately left their Board of Trustees.  As a NESCAC and Liberty expert I want to get your take on Williams.  I watched the Tufts game and thought they looked very good against the National champs.  Last night they gave up two goals to RPI, one a ridiculously bad giveaway by a defender, and the second the result of bad marking and a lost defender.  Is Williams and therefore RPI for real or did they overachieve against Tufts?

Well Williams plays well at Home usually but they just do not have the players they once had. Until they get some serious game changers this is the future of Williams Men's Soccer. You are correct there defending as been horrible. #17 Peollini(name issue) was awful. horrible mistake..loss of concentration on both goals...nothing new..my prediction is both teams will win some games they are not supposed to and more importantly lose games they are supposed to Win. RPI and Williams look like 2 roller coaster teams that will need to bust every game to get results.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 12, 2019, 04:39:58 PM
You are so dead on about Union's schedule.  To put things in perspective, they dropped 6 goals on Anna Maria but that was actually a good showing by Anna Maria who had given up 9 and 8 goals the two games before.  At the beginning of the week Union's Massey Rating went down 5 rankings after a two win weekend.  Their SOS is worse than over 300 d3 teams.  Despite being the only 5-0 team in the LL, they were shut out of the first set of Eastern Region rankings so the coaches are aware of their cupcake tilts.  Union previously was a power in what seems to be a lifetime ago.  How times change. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 12, 2019, 06:21:38 PM
Massey SOS:
Bard 326
Union 341
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: nescacfan94 on September 12, 2019, 08:36:22 PM
Union is a hockey school. Before that, it was a football school, and prior to that, a hockey school. And I know a few things about the way the coach recruits. Let me just say that it does not surprise me that they struggle to be just mediocre. As a point of personal curiosity, when were they a 'power' on the soccer field?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 13, 2019, 07:23:27 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 12, 2019, 03:40:38 PM
Mr. Right--welcome back.  As usual you and Saint are right, the Hillary prosecution was a travesty.  There was also a good Netflix documentary on the Central Park Five wrongly pursued by a Vassar grad prosecutor who ultimately left their Board of Trustees.  As a NESCAC and Liberty expert I want to get your take on Williams.  I watched the Tufts game and thought they looked very good against the National champs.  Last night they gave up two goals to RPI, one a ridiculously bad giveaway by a defender, and the second the result of bad marking and a lost defender.  Is Williams and therefore RPI for real or did they overachieve against Tufts?
Indeed.
Welcome back MR, not as much fun or controversy without you :)

You are right Fan, that entire 8 year journey Hillary had to take was atrocious. I am happy to see that not only is the truth told about his frame-up but perhaps people will be more open minded and not simply be  accepting sheep for the "powers that be".
As for this season... I really love that little rivalry between Williams and RPI.
Williams has always been a team I respect a lot.
Maybe because they are a championship team who have additional final fours under their belt, but just a quality program from everything I have seen or read a very deep and strong brotherhood exists among the alumni, which is the ultimate test for a program.
RPI is such an unpredictable team.
On every given year they can  win the league or fall short.
@4-1 not looking bad right now.

Union might run the table and win the Liberty League, but if they dont then there will again be complaints that the cupcake non-league season does not help when things get real.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 14, 2019, 10:17:27 AM
Big challenge for SLU and Vassar today—beat national powers or lose all chance of Pool C bids.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 14, 2019, 04:55:57 PM
SLU plays their best 44 minutes and 30 seconds of soccer of the last 3 years but concedes a penalty with 19 seconds left.   Ugh.  Still a step forward from last week. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 14, 2019, 04:58:48 PM
Very disappointing.
Crazy how much better a team plays when they attack on the front foot and not try to be soooo cute and passing around in the back and GK all game long.

Best half of the year agreed, but cant lose concentration like that at all...
Something is just off, not the right level of concentration or imagination in the final 1/3.
Perhaps I am getting more critical, but I expect a lot from this team.
Without expectation there is no dissapointment.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 14, 2019, 05:25:31 PM
Big surprise.
Saints sloppy in the back give up a goal.

This defense is leaking goals like crazy, I dont get it....
Fix the defense then build going forward.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 14, 2019, 05:32:46 PM
I spoke too soon.   I think the days of expecting us to be an almost automatic Pool C every year are over.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 14, 2019, 05:34:13 PM
It was always about playing good football... once you stop doing that ... this is what happens to a program.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 15, 2019, 10:27:51 AM
I was curious after reading the posts about SLU's overplaying in the back so I watched Stanford v Denver Friday night for perspective before watching the Cortland game. Even one of the top D1 programs is not trying to do what SLU is, emulate Barcelona with short, tight passes around their 18. SLU doesn't have the talent nor does Stanford. When Stanford plays it around the back they always have space and when they give it away the giveaway happens in the opponent's half. SLU's first goal was a total Cortland miscue but at least the Cortland player was trying to switch the field when giving the assist to SLU. Beside the Cortland result it was also a bad day for SLU as Bard won its first game against Hartwick by the same 3-0 score that SLU attained. When SLU and Bard are reaching similar outcomes that is a bad sign.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d4_Pace on September 15, 2019, 02:29:46 PM
while your point is valid stanford is actually known for not playing the best brand of soccer amongst the elite d1 programs. Their coach was at UNC Charlotte beforehand and was always pretty direct then. Wake Forest and UNC probably play the most pure possession style akin to SLU
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2019, 12:27:56 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 15, 2019, 10:27:51 AM
I was curious after reading the posts about SLU's overplaying in the back so I watched Stanford v Denver Friday night for perspective before watching the Cortland game. Even one of the top D1 programs is not trying to do what SLU is, emulate Barcelona with short, tight passes around their 18. SLU doesn't have the talent nor does Stanford. When Stanford plays it around the back they always have space and when they give it away the giveaway happens in the opponent's half. SLU's first goal was a total Cortland miscue but at least the Cortland player was trying to switch the field when giving the assist to SLU. Beside the Cortland result it was also a bad day for SLU as Bard won its first game against Hartwick by the same 3-0 score that SLU attained. When SLU and Bard are reaching similar outcomes that is a bad sign.


Yup...SLU has been known over the years for this. Same with Ray Reid and UCONN in its heyday. Almost possessing to the point of over possession. However, Durocher was a Coach who new how to tweak enough tactically to not blow everything up but make a couple quick fixes to solve his opponents. I have not watched SLU enough but everytime I tune in it seems they are just forcing these 10 ft square balls in their own defensive 3rd to be able to build out of the back, EVEN after teams have pressed, picked their pocket and scored. Well like you said the past few seasons they have not had the talent to effectively do this OR the willingness to change and either give his wingback more options or give his wingback the freedom to hoof the ball long if he feels harried. It is almost like sometimes the defender feels like if he does start hoofing a couple times he will get sacked. If that is actually the case then we are talking about a ton of unnecessary stress om his players.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on September 16, 2019, 01:44:57 PM
Coach Griffin at Hobart reaches 300 career wins on Saturday with 3-0 win over Geneseo. He reached 200 Hobart wins last year. Great coach who runs a really good program.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 17, 2019, 07:31:49 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 16, 2019, 12:27:56 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 15, 2019, 10:27:51 AM
I was curious after reading the posts about SLU's overplaying in the back so I watched Stanford v Denver Friday night for perspective before watching the Cortland game. Even one of the top D1 programs is not trying to do what SLU is, emulate Barcelona with short, tight passes around their 18. SLU doesn't have the talent nor does Stanford. When Stanford plays it around the back they always have space and when they give it away the giveaway happens in the opponent's half. SLU's first goal was a total Cortland miscue but at least the Cortland player was trying to switch the field when giving the assist to SLU. Beside the Cortland result it was also a bad day for SLU as Bard won its first game against Hartwick by the same 3-0 score that SLU attained. When SLU and Bard are reaching similar outcomes that is a bad sign.


Yup...SLU has been known over the years for this. Same with Ray Reid and UCONN in its heyday. Almost possessing to the point of over possession. However, Durocher was a Coach who new how to tweak enough tactically to not blow everything up but make a couple quick fixes to solve his opponents. I have not watched SLU enough but everytime I tune in it seems they are just forcing these 10 ft square balls in their own defensive 3rd to be able to build out of the back, EVEN after teams have pressed, picked their pocket and scored. Well like you said the past few seasons they have not had the talent to effectively do this OR the willingness to change and either give his wingback more options or give his wingback the freedom to hoof the ball long if he feels harried. It is almost like sometimes the defender feels like if he does start hoofing a couple times he will get sacked. If that is actually the case then we are talking about a ton of unnecessary stress om his players.
And the church says Amen.

Good football is possession football.
During my time and I am sure after the mantra was "Possess and Penetrate".

Now I have seen more Pick 6s watching these games than ever.
Defenders do seem afraid to go long, and going long becomes predictable.
Good to see that other soccer brains are realizing what I do, that deep possession does wayyyyy more harm than good, especially once teams press high and leave a security blanket in the back you have no hope which is what good teams will do.

What is worse however is that imagination/ingenuity and creativity gets lost in your midfielders and strikers because they have so few opportunities to run at defenders when you use this style.
I have said already that the team #1 and #2  and #3 (position wise) has the ball wayyyyy more than the #7, #10 and #8. Not sure how you have great success at the college level, but I may be wrong.

I will always support this program, but more than anything I want to see these young players EXPRESS themselves play with PERSONALITY and TRY THINGS.

Take the above with a grain of salt, I may just be a overly passionate.... This thing is hard to maintain success at the top of college soccer but if it aint broke... why change it so radically?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 17, 2019, 02:49:38 PM
Not to be the consummate Union basher, but, another regional ranking out and the only 7-0 team in the region is left out.  Two years ago Union went undefeated in non-conference games and only won one conference contest.  Deja vu all over again.  As to SLU, they have some very skilled players in the midfield, although they are missing a truly dangerous striker.  Their leading scorer previously was a defender.  Getting 2 goals against each of the Red Dragon sides is an excellent accomplishment and if they clean up the back they are going to do serious damage in the league games.  The have to win it all to advance.  It could be worse, Vassar is averaging less than a goal a game as its two returning all League offensive threats are not playing.  Have to sympathize with Coach Jennings' predicament in trying to get production out of freshmen and sophomores.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 17, 2019, 03:04:18 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 17, 2019, 02:49:38 PM
It could be worse, Vassar is averaging less than a goal a game as its two returning all League offensive threats are not playing.  Have to sympathize with Coach Jennings' predicament in trying to get production out of freshmen and sophomores.

After losing their two center backs from last year to graduation, I thought Vassar might struggle defensively.  The unexpected loss of Baliat and Mrlik has been devastating, though, and will make the LL season an uphill battle for the Brewers despite the early success of their young back line.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 17, 2019, 05:46:19 PM
Quote from: Red Dog on September 16, 2019, 01:44:57 PM
Coach Griffin at Hobart reaches 300 career wins on Saturday with 3-0 win over Geneseo. He reached 200 Hobart wins last year. Great coach who runs a really good program.
One of the great coaches in the league.
Watch out for these guys this year.
4 minutes away from beating Cortland... Freat Coach and quality program.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 17, 2019, 05:55:35 PM
Hairy last few minutes but Hobart hangs on for a second top tier pelt and pretty much assuring a Pool C unless a total league collapse.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 17, 2019, 06:04:36 PM
And RPI scores in the final minute of regulation to equalize, then in OT to beat Oneonta
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 17, 2019, 06:22:56 PM
With the Williams win RPI also looking really good for a Pool C.  If Ithaca wins the tournament, or anyone other than Hobart or RPI, there should be 3 bids this year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 18, 2019, 12:43:43 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 17, 2019, 06:22:56 PM
With the Williams win RPI also looking really good for a Pool C.  If Ithaca wins the tournament, or anyone other than Hobart or RPI, there should be 3 bids this year.

I think that dropping the Red Dragons like Hobart and RPI did was amazing, but I would keep the champaigne cork on for a Pool C bid however.
The problem , as I see the LL this year is that the top six will beat each other up a bit and I dont see a team with 3-4 losses getting a bid without winning the LL Tourney or atleast making it to the final.
I do think both RPI and Hobart are in the best position (and are the only teams with realistic pool c  aspirations right now) but it is wayyyy too  early to guarantee a 3 team league in the dance.
I see 2 tops.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 19, 2019, 04:33:01 PM
Oh I think those Wins will be huge for both RPI and Hobart come November. I mean you have 3 teams Ithaca, Hobart and RPI who ALL have at least 2 LEGIT wins and its not even Sept 20th. All 3 teams also will end up with SOS's I would guess .585-.605 depending on how badly Bard and Union kill the 3's SOS. Now this is the year the LL gets 2-3 bids IMO maybe 4...The makeup is already there for those 3 to get Pool C's and a SLU or someone else winning the conference tournament. Just a hunch. Skidmore just does not have the strength of schedule or legit Wins as of yet to be considered in the conversation. If RPI, Hobart and Ithaca can avoid beating each other up they should be fine. Basically getting Draws instead of losses and Wins instead of Draws.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 20, 2019, 10:21:15 AM
LL kicks off tonight between two undefeateds with the league's leading scorers.  Yawn.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 20, 2019, 05:03:09 PM
BIG BIG Test for Union.
In terms of confidence they need to win this one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 21, 2019, 07:42:17 AM
Great work by Union!!!!!
This team is now 8-0 and not just against cup cakes.
They could be a real problem for the Liberty League and means that SLU/Vassar or another annual league participant might be bumped out.
It is just one league win, but in the way they did it (3-2) against a nemesis will do wonders for confidence.
Again, CONFIDENCE is the most important ingredient of a soccer player or soccer team.

I like Union, they are a program who have had some great players over the years and seem due to have a nice era going right about now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 21, 2019, 11:41:14 AM
Yes Union just shut us all up for now...I agree they are an interesting team to follow through the years. I will say I am not totally shocked by Union defeating Skidmore last night...All these LL games are going to be tight as this league is starting to show its muscle this year. Atleast the TOP/Middle of the league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 21, 2019, 02:05:11 PM
Hobart and UR just opening up and both teams look PUMPED..Both teams with tons of energy to start and looks like it will be a physical bloodbath
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 24, 2019, 02:13:50 PM
Ithaca makes jump from No. 21 to No. 12 in the latest poll; RPI makes jump from not ranked to No. 15:

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 24, 2019, 06:44:25 PM
They are ranked 1-2 in the region as well.  Skidmore dropped out of the regional rankings after the loss to Union.  Union is number 10 but will drop out as soon as they lose their first game which imho will be against Vassar.  Skidmore out statisticed (not a word) Union everywhere but in the score line.  Union is still ranked in the 300s in strength of schedule.  If they beat Vassar, other than Bard, I don't see another win.  For me the surprise team so far is RIT.  I thought they would be much more impactful.  Clarkson gets a redemption victory against Plattsburgh which must have been a bitter pill for Coach Taylor.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 25, 2019, 07:35:56 PM
You'd think an engineering school like Clarkson would be able to figure out how to set up a live stream
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 25, 2019, 08:07:11 PM
Exactly.
Very poor form.

RPI on the other hand always brings it with their coverage.

On a different note.
Very impressed with the new African star for the Saints.
Quality Quality player.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 25, 2019, 08:10:36 PM
Is he the first Saint from Zimbabwe?    He's racking up numbers on the stat sheet. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 25, 2019, 08:54:51 PM
He might be... he does, as I have said before, joined a few all-time great Saints from the continent.
Mani Brito (top single season  scorer in team history)
Dan Annan (Former National POY)
Macky Diop (Maybe the most naturally talented player of the bunch)
Jethro Dede (back to back league POY, who dominated the league 4 straight years).

This kid will fit into the above players seamlessly, I saw that since he was still in HS.

We need all our talent to step up around him.
Including left sided players who pushed up one this season to give the team some scoring punch. They must pick it up since this is Senior year.
Talented South Americans who have already had a season to acclimate and need to start scoring goals to go with assists at this point.
Defenders that had excellent 2018 seasons and have to brush off whatever has affected them and lead this team as they know they can and tighten it up in the back.
Seems to me that SLU has always found a key striker that leads the line with class and talent after being written off as someone who would not cut it.
We really need that guy to step up this season to have any hope of saving this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 25, 2019, 09:00:22 PM
So SLU plays for 90 minutes and uses 3 subs.
Have been doing this for the entire year.

Clarkson plays 8 subs (one of who gets the goal to equalize in the 88th minute).

Is it just me or is it not a smart thing to consider using more than 3 subs since the rules allow this to be done?
Would a fresher team not have the energy to close down and not let up goals late in games or run out of gas?
If there are only 14 players with the ability to play at this level, then does that not speak to recruiting preparation?

I am just trying to understand if I am  understanding soccer correct or just getting a bit more grumpy as the years go by...

This thing is hard. It is difficult to run a program and keep it at the top  and easy to talk smack on a keyboard, but seems to me that common sense has to start kicking in at some point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 25, 2019, 10:13:54 PM
Saint I feel your pain and understand your concern.  SLU has 36 on the roster and routinely plays 14.  Doesn't do much for development of the 22 bench sitters or their desire to stay another winter in Canton.  Hobart played 24 in their close win over RIT.  SLU is not going to survive the Statesmen legions.  SLU and Vassar have the longest streaks of winning seasons in the LL.  There is a decent chance that both will wind up with losing records this year and a very decent chance that the loser of their fixture will break their winning string.  One common denominator explaining the change of fortune for both programs is their loss of last year's talent.  SLU graduated a whole bunch of quality seniors while Vassar's two strongest offensive players, who were to be seniors this year, are not playing. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on September 26, 2019, 07:39:33 AM
Playing 24 is equally as harmful as 14. Where's the incentive for the starter to play like your position is on the line? Where's the incentive to work hard in training if you're know you're going to play anyway?

I think there's a balance - probably somewhere around 16.  Starters need to be pushed and know there's someone ready to take their spot.  Subs need to push themselves to get better so they can earn playing time. Build a competitive training environment, carry that over to game playing time, and you'll get the best that your players have to offer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on September 26, 2019, 02:52:54 PM
Vassar losing at home to one of the for-profit Berkeley College teams is...woof. At least it doesn't count in terms of selections or SOS calculations because it's not an NCAA Division III opponent...but I re-iterate, woof.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 28, 2019, 11:58:40 AM
Big game today Saints fans.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 28, 2019, 01:05:23 PM
I would say a big game for RPI as well. I would think a Win would get them ranked and SLU just neds league Wins right now. The Hobart match to me as well is big because this is where Hobart sometimes tends to crash and burn just when everything is looking REALLY good.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 28, 2019, 02:34:44 PM
Frustrating to watch this type of soccer from SLU.
Still dont get why the goal keeper always has more touches and time inpossesion than the center mid.

PLAY FORWARD SAINTS.
PLAY THE BALL FORWARD!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 28, 2019, 03:10:58 PM
Even though it's harsh, it has to be said.  Toshack is clueless. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 28, 2019, 03:39:19 PM
SLU had the ball in RPI's half, then played 3 passes back to the keeper who then kicked the ball right at the RPI striker leading to a goal.    Tell what the definition of insanity is again?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 28, 2019, 04:45:43 PM
Woofers 1, Union 0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 28, 2019, 09:20:33 PM
Quote from: stlawus on September 28, 2019, 03:10:58 PM
Even though it's harsh, it has to be said.  Toshack is clueless.
The team will finish with a sub .500 record for the first time in a Quarter Century.
The job of a soccer coach is extremely hard.
That is why great coaches who have won championships like Durocher:
1. Listen to his former players when they offer good recruits.
2. Nurture pipelines that quality players come from and not ignore them.
3. develop a bench so that even when good players graduate you are not starting from scratch and rebuilding, but instead can reload.
4. Understand that when you are starting players for 2 1/2 years who are simply not meeting the required standard it may be time to try someone else in that spot.

This season is done, Many people who are observant knew this from the first game of the year.
The question is will anything change in Canton as far as actually listening to former players or bringing back things that worked for the program in the past, or will the Saints go the way of Bethany and Middlebury.
Former champions who no longer seriously compete on the national or even regional stage.
Only time will tell.

It is a lot easier to talk smack from a keyboard than to coach a top program, but I simply for the life of me cannot understand why any coach would attempt to totally change a program that was a national power annually competing for a championship.

Many people were not too sure about the change to playing style or training methods, but were willing to stay quiet and continue with support as long as the results were positive.
These results are not positive.

In the last two games SLU has been out shot and out played by Clarkson and RPI.
Watching the games, I wonder if these players have ever played together before.
There is no rhythm, no communication, no leadership and players seem to think that 10 back passes will equal a goal.

The passing and the program are going in one direction BACKWARDS.
I am amazed that no one else seems to see or realize this.

On a separate and more positive note.
Good for RPI!
Coach Clinton is absolute class.
He has painstakingly built a quality program that always competes year in year out whatever the talent base is.
He is a quality coach who inspires his team.

RPI will get in
Hobart will get in
Ithaca will get in
So will 3 other teams, and I dont think SLU will be among them.

This is bad, bad soccer, negative soccer... back passing soccer constantly playing through your goalie is a recipe for disaster.
The kid should concentrate on giving up 14 goals in 8 games as opposed to trying to be Messi from the GK position!
What else can I say... without expectation there is no disappointment.

I cannot watch this anymore.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 28, 2019, 09:58:18 PM
You're quite correct that it's easy to criticize from the position of internet spectator.   We have no idea what is actually happening between the players and coach in training and on the sidelines.   However, this program is rather storied as you mentioned.  Until this year the dynamic for many of us fans was that going into every game we were the favorite 90-95% of the time.   If we won, well that just figured, if we lost, it was a blip and/or a great performance by the opposition.   That has now changed for the opposite.  If that's not enough to prompt a change from the coach then I don't know what will. 

I transferred to SLU in the fall of 2013, and was able to watch an extremely exciting first season as a student spectator that culminated in a sweet 16 run that came a shot off the post short of an elite 8 appearance.   The next 2 seasons were much of the same, and the feeling was a base line of a 2nd round/sweet 16 appearance by default every year for the program.  All of that changed in 2016 when the coach had his first year with players he recruited.  We didn't even make the LL tournament, and probably should have not received an at large bid.  Even then, most of the heavy lifting that year came from Durocher's recruits.   

It is sad to see, and I am hopeful that the ship will right itself, but I do not think that will be any time in the near future considering we are losing games in the same exact method game after game.

Props to RPI though.  Clinton can be a pain to watch but his passion is contagious with his players and it reflects on the pitch.  He's really the only coach that hasn't had much trouble on Sandy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on September 29, 2019, 07:01:34 AM
Saints fans I certainly understand your pain.  As a former Clarkson player who played when teams were good enough to compete regionally and occasionally nationally it is hard to watch a program decline.  I am sure it is even harder to see as storied a program as SLU in this decline.  I pointed out this trend toward more possession and back passes last year and I think it has continued to degrade this season.  At Clarkson the decline came from a lack of resources and support from the institution, which I doubt is the case at SLU with Durocher as the AD.  Setting all of the legal issues that came later for Nick Hillary aside (which is hard as I do believe it was a great miscarriage of justice, but necessary for this conversation) he was the wrong coach for the program at the wrong time.  Nick may be a very good coach, but he was not the right fit for Clarkson soccer at that time.  He came in and changed the entire program to emulate the Saint Way, removing nearly all of the Clarkson traditions and practically ignoring alumni.  As a financial supporter of the team he wouldn't even take the time to return my phone calls.  I understand being a coach is hard, but there are a lot of challenges that coaches (especially young ones) fail to see.

I think it is interesting to see how hard it is for teams that have had long runs of success to maintain the level when a coaching legend moves on.  Mike Toschack is a great coach and I was coached by him before he moved into the MLS roles he held after I graduated.  Similarly, Chris Taylor was the perfect coach to turn the Clarkson program around but has struggled at Plattsburgh replacing a legend in Chris Waterbury.  But I think in both these cases the new coach has a very different style than the previous coach and it is going to take time to restart that winning cycle and I think unfortunately you have to go through some dark times to come out the other side.  Based on what I have seen in other sports (Dean Smith at UNC basketball, Steve Spurrier at Florida Football, Bobby Bowden at FSU football and Frank Beamer at VT football) it usually has the coach following the legend take the program down and then be replaced with a coach who can elevate the the program back to the top (working for UNC and Florida but not yet for FSU and VT).  I don't think D3 soccer is at the same level where you would move on from a coach without the same level of success, but I could be wrong.  I do think in his 5th season Tosh needs to possibly make some changes to his thinking to be successful.  Coach Taylor at Platsburgh deserves a few more seasons before you can judge his program as I think the change in styles between him and Waterbury is more drastic.  We also can't forget that SLU is less than a year away from winning both the regular season and LL tournament.

I also think this shows how hard it is to stay on top for an extended period of time and how expectations can possibly get carried away. SLU has still had success in the past 4 years by going to 3 NCAA tournaments.  It is just the lack of success at the tournament that is hard to take for fans and alums so used to deep runs in the tournament.  As great as it is to see Clarkson finally not get run off the pitch by SLU, I do hope that Tosh and SLU find the answers and return the program to prominence.  I hope that your dark times don't last as long as Clarkson's did. I just hope that Clarkson can gain some traction and move the program forward. Despite a few bad results I see some great steps forward for the program and hope they can make a few waves in the Liberty League this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 29, 2019, 08:05:08 AM
Thanks for your encouraging Post Knight.
Unfortunately I do not share the optimism for the program that you do.
As for Clarkson, they had a good win yesterday and should get in the program.

Infact I think the top 6 as it stands now will remain the same come November.
If Vassar makes it, no one will want to play them.

I disagree with your point about former Saint player who coached Clarkson.
He may not have been the right fit, but when racist local police try to convince your 19 year old players to lie about your whereabouts during practice in order to wrongfully convict you with the support of an ignorant population... it is near impossible to run a program after that point.

SLU supporters will never ever be satisfied with making the tourney 3 out of four years when  the team is playing unwatchable soccer.

I played Clarkson several times during my career and it was always one of the HARDEST games of the year.
In the last 20 years however, the Golden Knight program has been like you said on a downward turn because of non-investment and maybe the coach seeing this just not trying as hard.
A program with several losing seasons has to be turned around so it makes sense to change a lot about it in order to accomplish this (never a good idea to not have a good relationship with ALUMNI, the backbone of any program).

SLU is a different animal.
When a program has had tremendous success including yearly NCAA and 4 undefeated seasons a National championship and almost annual conference titles, changing everything is almost insanity.

That is enough from me however, my point here is not to be negative or take confidence away from current Saints, but to remind them that we are a program that never had success by constantly passing the ball back to our goal keeper and hope that he hits a miraculous cross field pass to an open striker.  IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

HOBART are very impressive, head coach just passed the 300 win mark and has a tremendous young staff to assist him in building a real power. Hobart was always one of those teams who brought the fire every year, you could beat them if you were better, but wont be parking the bus against anyone, will punch with anyone and go toe to toe.
CLARKSON sitting at number three might finally get to host a league playoff game this year.

RPI just showed how strong they are by spanking SLU at home and moving to a 9-1 record.

Ithaca feels like they should have won it last year and will be righting that this year if they get the home field.

Union just had a tough loss, but with a good record and some offensive punch should sneak in over a talented SKIDMORE squad.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 29, 2019, 12:26:58 PM
It could be worse. D1 Akron, a perennial powerhouse, sits at 0-7.  They brought in a team psychologist and then lost in overtime to Cornelll.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 29, 2019, 01:37:52 PM
No doubt this is causing a stir in a community like Canton. The Head Coach HAS to be feeling the pressure daily(who wouldn't be) and what makes everything even worse is Durocher is right down the hall as the AD. I mean if his health is better now he is young enough to return to the sidelines....just sayin...moving on
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on September 30, 2019, 06:48:28 AM
Saint-
I agree that SLU is a different animal than nearly any other program due to their dominance and puts them in rare air with a handful of other programs throughout the country who have done similar things at different times. I was just trying to point out that rebuilding the program due to the coaching change may have a slightly different look for SLU.  Some teams fall off the map while trying to rebuild - I was just wondering if 11-12 wins and one and done in the tournament with a down year or two sprinkled in is what SLU may look like as it rebuilds with greater successes to come in the future.  I don't think it fair to any coach to have them come in and tell them to run the program exactly as the predecessor did.  Tosh needs some freedom to develop the program as he sees fit, but should also do it in a way that respects the history and traditions of the program.  The real question to ask is whether Tosh is the right guy to get the program back to its position as a national contender year in and year out.

What I find interesting is the change in the way the program is talked about on these boards.  Prior to this year there appeared to be an unwillingness to criticize the program too heavily and an effort to not go against the program.  Now with the further regression this season I am seeing the frustration start to percolate outward beyond those in the program.  This is a red flag to me as it is the start of the coach losing alumni support - and as you mentioned the support of the alumni is the backbone of the program.  Having seen this same thing happen at Clarkson (and many other places if you follow college football or basketball) and it can push a team to a point where you need more than a rebuild - you need a reboot.  Again, the question is whether Tosh is the right guy for the job - if so, then the alumni need support him and find ways to work with him to improve the situation.  If not, work to find ways to support the program and don't walk away as many others have at other institutions.  Walking away or voicing problems publicly doesn't do anything to advance the program and in many ways sets it back.  My only advice is to find positive steps that can be taken to help the program move forward not backward as the tradition of the SLU program is too great to let fall.

I don't want to belabor the conversation on Nick as I don't think we'll ever agree, but did want to clarify something from my prior post.  When I said it was a miscarriage of justice I meant that it was a complete miscarriage of justice for all involved.  The Phillips family didn't get any justice for their son and Nick was put through an unthinkable ordeal with no facts to support the accusations against him. As for him as a coach I agree the last 2 years were completely untenable and shouldn't be a judge for him as a coach.  However, I think it is important to note that the murder occurred at the tail end of his 3rd season at the helm and they were on their way to a program low 9 goal season.  He had also eroded all support from the programs alumni by that time.  These three years are where I judge his performance and like I said, I just don't think it was the right choice for Clarkson at the time.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 01, 2019, 10:03:21 AM
Hobart not cracking the Top 25 but Messiah jumping over them even after they beat Messiah earlier in the year should make the Hobart staff nice and cheery this morning. They are 8-2-0 with wins over Cortland and Messiah. I will admit the rest of the Wins are weak sauce but his schedule is not bad.

Winner of today's Ithaca/Hobart match will win the league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on October 01, 2019, 11:02:36 AM
Hobart and Ithaca both beat Messiah and NYU. Hobart beat Cortland while Ithaca tied Cortland. Both teams lost a game to a mid-table team. Hobart lost to #18 URoch 1-0. It can probably be argued that Ithaca's out of league schedule has been weaker than Hobart's.

Ithaca is ranked 11, Hobart is......... unranked. Can anyone explain this? (I imagine this question has been posed many times over many years and is unanswerable).

Upcoming game is certainly match of the week. Last years result was a pretty dominant 3-0 win in the rain by Hobart, see what happens in the rain tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on October 01, 2019, 11:50:10 AM
Quote from: Red Dog on October 01, 2019, 11:02:36 AM
Hobart and Ithaca both beat Messiah and NYU. Hobart beat Cortland while Ithaca tied Cortland. Both teams lost a game to a mid-table team. Hobart lost to #18 URoch 1-0. It can probably be argued that Ithaca's out of league schedule has been weaker than Hobart's.

Ithaca is ranked 11, Hobart is......... unranked. Can anyone explain this? (I imagine this question has been posed many times over many years and is unanswerable).

Upcoming game is certainly match of the week. Last years result was a pretty dominant 3-0 win in the rain by Hobart, see what happens in the rain tomorrow.
Red Dog, +k for the analysis. Time for the Statesmen to become mudders again tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 01, 2019, 12:00:16 PM
Other ranking weirdness in the East Region. RPI is left out while Union goes up two notches after a one loss week. RPI should be numero uno.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 01, 2019, 03:57:35 PM
The absence of RPI in the USC regional rankings suggests that RPI has not paid their USC dues.  Teams are not eligible to be ranked if they aren't current with their dues, and players are not eligible for All-Region/All-American honors if their team has not paid their dues.  At least that's how it used to be.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on October 02, 2019, 10:35:55 AM
So, today we find out if Ithaca's ranking is legit as they face the Statesmen overlooking Cayuga . The rain threat has diminished to 30% chance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 03, 2019, 09:06:17 AM
Ithaca's legit because their goalie is a stud. Best to grace the LL in quite a while. I am putting him on my all LL, USSDA and deutsche team of former and current LL players. Hobart's keeper should not have allowed that free kick from the right side of the box and that was the difference.  Skidmore trying to do what Union almost accomplished a couple of years ago and go undefeated in non-conference and lose all their LL games. They will have to find a way to lose to hapless Bard which will be difficult.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on October 03, 2019, 09:44:39 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 03, 2019, 09:06:17 AM
Ithaca's legit because their goalie is a stud. Best to grace the LL in quite a while. I am putting him on my all LL, USSDA and deutsche team of former and current LL players. Hobart's keeper should not have allowed that free kick from the right side of the box and that was the difference.  Skidmore trying to do what Union almost accomplished a couple of years ago and go undefeated in non-conference and lose all their LL games. They will have to find a way to lose to hapless Bard which will be difficult.
Totally agree on the Ithaca goalkeeper. Hobart tested him in the first 45 and and he met every challenge. Hobart had the better of play early, but the Ithaca goaltender was a huge difference. Congrats to Ithaca, and hopefully the Statesmen will have another shot at Ithaca.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on October 03, 2019, 10:00:50 AM
Hobart possessed the ball more and ended up with more shots, more shots on frame and more corners, but could not find enough quality shots. It certainly could have gone either way but Ithaca found a way to win and that is what goes in the books. Ithaca coach and players appeared to display some less than sportsmanlike behavior which as the spouse of an Ithaca grad was disappointing. Hope they are not aiming to become the Amherst of the LL. :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 04, 2019, 10:23:58 AM
These teams will ore than likely meet up again in the Finals (Unless RPI says otherwise).
Really good to see a competitive Liberty League with several teams in the National conversation.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 05, 2019, 09:29:05 AM
SLU can steal one today.  Ithaca due for a let down and is offensively challenged. Their keeper though is nails. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 05, 2019, 02:27:11 PM
Toshack clueless again.  He's getting out coached in literally every single game.  Program is being ruined right before our eyes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 05, 2019, 03:25:46 PM
This Ithaca crowd is atrocious.   I'm all for trash talk, but these people are nuts.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 05, 2019, 03:57:15 PM
More of the same from SLU, season's been over for a while now anyways.   

I'll be pulling for anyone but Ithaca the rest of the season, however.  That crowd is a horrible representation of the Liberty League. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 05, 2019, 06:04:05 PM
can you provide some examples of what was said and/or done by Ithaca fans (IC students, I'm assuming)?

Not trolling here, I didn't see any of today's match.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 05, 2019, 06:48:56 PM
Sounded like students.  A lot of personal insults towards the players, many of which were directed towards SLU players' body characteristics.   Again I'm all for competitive ribbing but these guys went far over the line.  Reminded me of an Amherst game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 07, 2019, 09:22:29 AM
RPI trying to do what SLU did in 2015 and Vassar did in 2016–ride the back of a freshman to the promised land.  Hobart has to be concerned about a goal-less two games and Ithaca gets business done in two games they likely had circled on their calendar since last year. Although only one point for Clarkson's tie with Hobart but it must be a huge confidence builder. They have turned their defense around after the Brockport debacle. For SLU and Union their next fixture is huge as the loser likely won't make the top six.  Vassar is now playing without all three of their returning all LL players. Has to be disappointing for the team and the staff. Skidmore keeps its slim playoff hopes alive with a win over depleted Vassar. RIT takes out a season of frustration on Bard in a stat padding blowout.  Assuming Clarkson gets fourth playoff spot, a lot of teams fighting for the last two road playoff games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 08, 2019, 03:37:17 PM
I must say the positive thing about your club's season being done in September is that you can enjoy and appreciate the soccer being played in the league.
We have three teams in the LL that can realistically make a play Nationally this year.

Hobart is always a tough team, but they seem to have gelled a bit earlier this season than normally.
Seemed to have already faced their toughest test in the league and should be a Pool C if they can avoid a melt down and make atleast the conference Semis.

Ithaca has 10 wins already and they have the best goalie in the league. When you have a good GK you can  climb the mountain with a  bit of luck on your side.

The thing I like about the Bombers is that they were planning for more than NCAA last season, and I am sure they are planning for more than a quick dance this season as well.

RPI is strong. What else can you say about this well coached program. I dont think any team in the league wants to face RPI in an elimination game.
It has been a while since they won the entire league as well so they are very hungry.

Clarkson is still undefeated after 4 games in the league.

Vassar at 2-1 is doing very well considering they are playing with a very depleted squad.

Union/RIT/ still alive and in OK shape  with a shout for the last  spot all with one win and only 3 games played and Skidmore got a very important win to stay alive with an outside shot as well.

Tough season so far for Bard, but this is a league without sympathy. I think they are rebuilding and with their new coaching staff will become a much better program in a couple years.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 09, 2019, 04:30:46 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 08, 2019, 03:37:17 PM
I must say the positive thing about your club's season being done in September is that you can enjoy and appreciate the soccer being played in the league.
We have three teams in the LL that can realistically make a play Nationally this year.

Hobart is always a tough team, but they seem to have gelled a bit earlier this season than normally.
Seemed to have already faced their toughest test in the league and should be a Pool C if they can avoid a melt down and make atleast the conference Semis.

Ithaca has 10 wins already and they have the best goalie in the league. When you have a good GK you can  climb the mountain with a  bit of luck on your side.

The thing I like about the Bombers is that they were planning for more than NCAA last season, and I am sure they are planning for more than a quick dance this season as well.

RPI is strong. What else can you say about this well coached program. I dont think any team in the league wants to face RPI in an elimination game.
It has been a while since they won the entire league as well so they are very hungry.

Clarkson is still undefeated after 4 games in the league.

Vassar at 2-1 is doing very well considering they are playing with a very depleted squad.

Union/RIT/ still alive and in OK shape  with a shout for the last  spot all with one win and only 3 games played and Skidmore got a very important win to stay alive with an outside shot as well.

Tough season so far for Bard, but this is a league without sympathy. I think they are rebuilding and with their new coaching staff will become a much better program in a couple years.
Maybe the Saints will make a bit of noise yet.
Two freshmen scoring all the goals.
The positive thing is that this is still a very young team with room to grow for most of the players.

I could quible with benching a 6 foot 7 inch junior with 2 seasons under his belt for a 5 foot 9 inch freshman, but I am making an effort to keep it positive the rest of the way.
These boys including the gk are very young and will improve.

Some jerseys are very HEAVY... These boys might just need time to get adjusted to the college game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 09, 2019, 05:11:41 PM
One thing I've come to agree with Toshack on is goalkeepers.   I was very skeptical when he named Roethel the starter and he had a tremendous year.   I felt the same about Smith and he played as good as any Saint keeper of the last 15 years.   This freshman has an incredibly strong leg and distributes well, so this is the one part of the season I will try to remain positive about.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 09, 2019, 05:43:30 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 30, 2019, 03:04:03 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 30, 2019, 11:37:06 AM
The Skidmore coaching staff must have heard you.  Their 38 man roster two days ago is now done to 30.  In terms of season predictions, I have Hobart first with 12 returning seniors and Ithaca second with impact players returning across the pitch.  It is appropriate that these two squads square off with Messiah this weekend.  It will provide a good sense of the overall strength of the league.  For SLU to return to the dance will require a coaching miracle given its losses to graduation.  For all the excitement of winning the league title, one and done with that group of seniors was a major disappointment.  While I didn't think it was possible, Union's non-conference schedule is even softer than it has been in previous years.  The plus for me in looking at their schedules is that I learn the names of colleges I never knew existed.  I expect RPI and RIT in the 3 and 4 spots but based on the past few years for the LL to get more than two berths in the dance would require divine intervention.  After that I have SLU and Vassar getting the last two spots in the LL tourney with Clarkson looking to be the spoiler.  Let the games begin.       

Extremely intelligent post.
I do agree that any team who finishes ahead of the Bombers will win the league.
There is nothing in sports more dangerous than a pissed off team.
Ithaca knew they were an NCAA team last year and they did not get an invite.
They cannot take out their frustrations on the Dance Committee but they can on the league... and I can see them doing that.

I do disagree on your assessment of the Saints and any other team based on graduating players, the game has evolved to the point where freshmen are coming into the league and playing like grown men.
I thought SLU's last African Soccer King #6 Jethro Dede was the best player in the league his entire 4 years at SLU.
He did get back to back POY of the league his Sr and Jr years, cannot recall another player doing this off the top of my head.
Another African King was Dan Annan who captained the team to a National Championship in the late 90s was also a gem of a player. Annan continued the legacy of fellow West African Mani Brito who still owns the scoring record from the 1996 season.
In between those 2 we had perhaps our greatest African General Macky Diop who led the team to a Final 4 in 2002 and perhaps would have led them to the promiseland had he and the other great player on that squad (Shawn Watson) Macky played with a smile on his face literally. I have never seen anyone (Besides Ronalldhino) do that had not missed the crucial semi at home v. Messiah....
Anyway, there is yet another African star donning the Saint midfield this year who might join the tradition of players I just mentioned.

I see SLU getting the first or 2nd seed based on the above.

Hobart is always strong and they will be 3rd
Skidmore will be disappointed by last year and make a push for 4th
Vassar will finish 5th. They have some talented upperclassmen who have been giving it to the league since freshman year.
6th place is tough but the alphabet soup of RIT and RPI will be fighting it out with the edge going to RPI who always seem to win the games they must down the stretch.

Bard will be there next season and Clarkson are still a year or two away.
What a league.
Well, atleast I was right about the African Star :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 10, 2019, 11:54:13 AM
Saint:  Thanks for that trip down memory lane.  I really missed on RIT, and Vassar playing without its three top returners was unexpected.  SLU's win over Union gives them the tie-break and if they beat Vassar they are looking good to get in the playoffs as they have played two of the top three sides this year.  It is coming down to the big three, Clarkson, and then everyone else but Bard.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 10, 2019, 03:51:08 PM
Hey, its hit or miss with these boyz these days Fan.
The league is definitely going through an evolution.
RIT is a Jekyl and Hyde team I have always said, never know what you will get with these boyz.

Clarkson is looking good, but still loads of soccer to play and they have little room for error.

Hobart is a lock for the league tourney but cannot lose again before the semis to have a shot at Pool C.

Ithaca and RPI are almost lock for both.

Look for the horses to make a late run!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 12, 2019, 02:20:26 PM
Toshack ain't it.   Need a better staff as well.  Steinrotter is ok but the rest of the staff is nowhere near the caliber of the Durocher years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on October 13, 2019, 08:42:08 AM
Watched the Hobart Statesmen beat Vassar yesterday 3-0. Great unselfish team play. Looking forward to the LL tournament assuming Hobart stays healthy and playing at this level.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 13, 2019, 10:49:39 AM
Hobart got 29 into the game. Awesome. Binjo is having a great campaign. In many ways this is the year of the defender in the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 13, 2019, 02:55:58 PM
How bout Clarkson leading the LL this late in October? Did anyone catch the 1-0 upset over Ithaca? Did they park the bus and counter? Or how did it play out? Either way  we could see 4 LL Teams ranked in the Top 25 for the first time maybe ever??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on October 13, 2019, 03:58:28 PM
Perhaps even more surprising was RPI tie with Skidmore given Skidmores struggles so far. No doubt Clarkson is legit after tie with Hobart and win over Ithaca. All four to teams have a credible / plausible path to winning the regular season if chips fall the right way for them. Friday's RPI Hobart game is significant and the RPI Ithaca game on the last day of the regular season could decide things. RPI only team left that has not faced any of the other top four.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 13, 2019, 04:05:15 PM
I don't know as historically a Draw in an RPI / Skidmore match would probably be close to EVEN money no matter what season..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 15, 2019, 03:03:06 PM
RPI moves up to No. 9 in this week's poll; Ithaca falls to No. 16. Hobart receiving votes ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 16, 2019, 11:17:56 AM
Eight meaningful LL matches this weekend discounting the Bard fixtures. Will RPI's 80th minute heroics continue?  Is Ithaca getting a deja vu feeling after its loss to Clarkson puts a Pool C bid in jeopardy?  Whose streak of winning seasons will run out, SLU's, Vassar's or both?  Can Clarkson win in Poughkeepsie and stay undefeated in League?  Can Hobart get back into the top 25 by beating RPI?  So many questions????
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 18, 2019, 04:35:06 PM
RPI goes up on Hobart 1-0 about 20 min in on a nasty hip check in the box by Hobart's Senior #3 Left back. Total bonehead play that any Hobart alum 20 years ago would be proud of..Not the Hobart of today as that was pure stupidity. RPI's #21 calmly buries the PK. RPI in a solid block of six and look very organized defensively in their 4-2-3-1. Hobart has had some moments and have had some nice combination play in midfield and then out to the flanks. Hobart has some skill in midfield but have looked uninspiring up top as of now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 18, 2019, 05:55:01 PM
Toshack has now achieved the first .500 minimum season since 1992.   

What a disaster. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 19, 2019, 11:03:23 AM
Given Vassar's results against Hobart and SLU no way SLU beats Hobart. It will be a sub .500 year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 20, 2019, 02:16:54 PM
Since SLU nation is in silent mourning, a weekend update to myself. RPI takes care of business and has a pool c even if they don't win league which they should. Clinton's staff receives and richly deserves staff of the year. Another, small blemish for Ithaca but they start to add up. The Bombers effectively ruined Vassar's season last year coming from a three goal deficit to win and the Brewers are waiting to return the favor in Poughkeepsie. Clarkson misses on two first half breakaways and it likely costs them the LL regular season championship and a pool C.  Hobart soundly beaten in Troy also trashes their pool C hopes. When Vassar lost the last of its 3 returning LL players their destiny was as spoilers. Have been great at it ending Union's unbeaten streak, SLU's streak of winning seasons, and now Clarkson's chance for. a regular season title and pool C. Lookiing forward to wrecking Ithaca's year. Skidmore keeps its slim playoff hopes alive while SLU is pretty much dead. Union again will go undefeated in non-conference and not make the LL playoffs. At least their players have some nice personal stats as door prizes. Fittingly Bard's best showing in league will be against Union. Don't know what happened with RIT. A team that showed so much promise two years ago and flaming out. It will be interesting to see come awards time whether the lower echelon teams like RIT, Union and SLU receive a disparate share of the awards due to reputation or feasting on weaker teams.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2019, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 07, 2019, 04:38:58 PM
80% of Saint passes are backwards.
Teams have figured this out and simply sit back and pick us off...
Strikers dont make imaginative runs because they know the ball will simply be passed back.

If your #1 constantly has more touches than your #7, $10 and #8, then your team has a PROBLEM.
This soccer wont work.
Im done, signed off.
Its a joke in Canton right now.
Sad to say.

I knew this would be a bad season since week one.
I guess when you have been playing/watching something for almost 30 years you see the signs.
Last season's playoffs were ended when we tried playing that fancy stuff in the back, got picked off and got kicked out the tourney for the first time (or second) in the first round.
No need to keep beating a dead horse.
I will always support this program and the coach no matter what.
I just wish everyone starts realizing once again what made the program great in the first place and it was not backward passes allowing good teams to reset, pick you off and score easily.

The coach knows the game and has the ability to turn it around, but the team needs better recruiting and more internal competition.
If you are starting for 3 years in midfield and have yet to score a goal or an assist, then you should feel the competition breathing down your neck for that spot. This way you might up your game.
Same goes for each position on the team.
This is how good teams function, otherwise practices get soft (because bench guys think they are destined to stay there and starters get fat and lazy) and the first time real pressure gets applied in games (since its not happening at practice) is in games which leads to pick 6s.
You cannot give up pick 6s in soccer, yet we do all too often.

On a positive note, and just to play Saints' advocate.
We are still alive.
The team can still avoid missing the dance, as well as avoid a sub .500 record which would be the first in about 30 years.

Players need to have some pride in the shirt, in themselves and play harder!
Do NOT PASS BACKWARDS unless there is not a good pass forward or sideways Soccer 101.
This way you will encourage strikers to make those runs through the channels with the hope of getting the ball. If not those runs are not made and the play becomes stagnant... slow, predictable and you will NEVER break down a good team.

In other news.
Clinton should get COY at RPI.
Best coach in the league by far this year.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on October 21, 2019, 05:51:14 PM
I feel your pain Saint. Son's HS is a SLU clone. Coach preaches possession for the sake of possession.  There is no attack. They have 1 striker who is asked to play with back to goal. Opponents have learned to park the bus because they know there is no penetration coming. He refuses to budge on his tactics, even when losing.

He doesn't sub, so his players are gassed midway through the second half.  Starters know they play entire games, and bench players know they won't see the field, so there's no incentive to work hard in practice and fight for a position. Now granted, the team is having a stellar season, but it's because he has a ton of talent.  Soooo frustrating to watch, but they keep winning, so at least there's that.

But to your point - if they recruit well, good players will be successful regardless of coaching shortcomings.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Christan Shirk on October 23, 2019, 04:21:09 PM
EAST REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - October 23, 2019

Rank

School
. Div. III .
Record
. Div. III .
SOS

 . R-v-R .
. Overall .
Record
. Prev. .
Rank
1.
RPI
13-1-1
0.559
--
13-1-1
--
2.
Oneonta State
13-2-0
0.577
--
13-2-0
--
3.
Ithaca
11-2-2
0.560
--
11-2-2
--
4.
Hobart
10-4-1
0.591
--
10-4-1
--
5.
Skidmore
6-4-4
0.576
--
6-4-4
--
6.
Plattsburgh State
8-6-0
0.573
--
8-6-0
--
7.
Cortland State
7-5-2
0.579
--
7-5-2
--
8.
Vassar
7-5-1
0.575
--
7-6-1
--
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 24, 2019, 10:41:04 AM
Thanks Christian. While a big LL fan I don't understand Rochester's exclusion to Vassar's inclusion. Rochester beat 2 of the ranked teams, Hobart and Vassar, and has a better overall record. Vassar lost to Skidmore and Hobart, and other than unranked Clarkson does not have a win over a quality opponent—sorry SLU and Union. Perhaps Mr. Right who is good with these numbers can solve the puzzle.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Domino1195 on October 24, 2019, 12:14:16 PM
Look at the data sheets - Vassar's SOS .575 vs UR .542.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on October 25, 2019, 12:52:45 PM
Current Massey Ratings

                  Rank   SOS

RPI
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on October 25, 2019, 12:59:07 PM
Previous post incomplete - apologies

Current Massey Ratings

            Rank  SOS

RPI        12      54
Hobart   37      37
Ithaca    43      88
Clark.     101    94
Skid.      102    70
Vassar    142    110
SLU        150    76
Union     161    208
RIT        165    51
Bard       355    228

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 25, 2019, 03:57:12 PM
Based on the Massey Ratings Rochester's SOS is 42, or stronger than any of the LL teams except Hobart, who they happened to beat.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 25, 2019, 04:53:53 PM
And I would expect Rochester to jump into the rankings once RvR comes in next week (unless of course they go winless down the stretch).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2019, 04:32:01 PM
Vassar reminds us that revenge is a dish best served cold and the ghosts of last year's NCAA snub are haunting Ithaca this halloween weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 29, 2019, 02:22:34 PM
An unexpectedly huge game tomorrow between RPI and Vassar.  If Vassar wins its last two LL games it is the regular season champ and will host the semis and finals, a ridiculously implausible scenario from the commencement of league play as Vassar is without its three best returners from last year and has one senior starting.  If Vassar beats RPI in Troy I am changing my vote to Coach Jennings for COY honors.  Vassar is a true anomaly.  It has crazily high academic admission requirements even for athletes and is a school that prides itself on the arts as much as or probably more than athletics.  It should be Bard, which has a similar vibe, and slightly less strict admission requirements, and yet it is not, it is one of the most successful programs in the LL over the past decade.  In other news, SLU could lose to Hobart and still make the playoffs with a losing record in league.  Its offense is now reliant on the defense to score goals.  Clarkson's tie against RPI was huge as it punched their ticket to the LL playoffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 29, 2019, 05:15:44 PM
Great summary as usual Fan.
RPI and Coach Clinton are probably a lock for a Pool C with just one more win, no matter what happens in the League mini dance.
Clarkson has a lot to be proud of.

Basically SLU
RIT and Skidmore are fighting for the 6th and final playoff spot.

As a fan, I guess you have to be happy if your playing your last regular season game and still have something to play for, but thats tough for a program that  saw the NCAA as a given.

Vassar if they win the league should also get huge props for a season of accomplishments without big guns.

The Bombers and the Statesmen had amazing starts but slowly blew their chances of a Pool C with too many blemishes down the stretch...
Either of them can still win the Tourney and are maybe favorites along with RPI to do so regardless.

What I will say is that any one of the 6 teams in the League Tourney could possibly win the whole thing regardless of which 6 end up making it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Christan Shirk on October 30, 2019, 02:40:46 PM
EAST REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - October 30, 2019

Rank

School
. Div. III .
Record
. Div. III .
SOS

 . R-v-R .
. Overall .
Record
. Prev. .
Rank
1.
RPI
13-1-2
0.570
5-0-1
13-1-2
1
2.
Oneonta State
15-2-0
0.554
3-1-0
15-2-0
2
3.
Hobart
12-4-1
0.566
5-2-0
12-4-1
4
4.
Ithaca
11-3-2
0.557
3-1-2
11-3-2
3
5.
Rochester
9-5-0
0.553
2-3-0
9-5-0
--
6.
Vassar
8-5-1
0.584
1-2-0
8-6-1
8
7.
Clarkson
8-4-3
0.545
4-1-2
8-4-3
--
8.
Skidmore
6-5-4
0.579
2-2-2
6-5-4
5
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 30, 2019, 09:36:19 PM
Wow RIT takes down Ithaca in double OT. Bombers 1-2-1 down the stretch here with RPI next on Saturday.
RPI 2, Vassar 0 in the other game tonight
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on October 31, 2019, 09:23:15 AM
So if Hobart beats SLU on Saturday, how likely is a Pool C bid based on regional ranking?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on October 31, 2019, 09:58:55 AM
I am not an expert in these matters so others will know more. However, based on SOS, record and where NCAA regional rank puts them they probably will at least get consideration if they close out strong and do OK in tournament. If they win on Saturday they will get the first round bye.

Ithaca probably will not given last nights outcome. RIT can be a dangerous team. Some strong attacking players - two good goals last night. They could be a presence in the league tournament if they get in.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on October 31, 2019, 10:05:08 AM
Ah yes, the LL tournament, getting a first round bye and getting to finals is probably necessary, but I would think losing to SLU will then require a tournament win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2019, 10:12:11 AM
SLU only gets in if it beats Hobart on the road and Vassar beats RIT on the road.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 31, 2019, 11:04:35 AM
Just looking at the East Regional Rankings (without putting it in the context of the other 7 regional rankings) and thinking about the numbers usually needed to get an at-large berth, the only team looking good for an at-large berth is RPI.  Hobart's and Ithaca's current SOS would be at the low end for at-large selections and there's no guarantee their SOS will improve much with the conference tournament games as playing RIT, SLU and Vassar would actually hurt their SOS. With RIT yesterday and RPI this weekend, Ithaca will get a slight SOS bump, while Hobart's SOS will drop from finishing the regular season with Bard and SLU, and that will probably put the two on equally footing in the SOS column.  Hobart has a solid advantage in Results vs. Ranked, but that could change some depending who enters/exits next week's regional rankings.

It's amazing how at mid-season, the Liberty League looked very, very good to have three tournament teams, and now it's quite possible it's just RPI if they win the tournament. Neither Hobart or Ithaca has played their way out of an at-large berth yet, but there's little margin for error left, especially for Ithaca.  Now, an Ithaca win over RPI Saturday would certainly change the complexion of things, as would a Hobart loss to SLU.  For the outsider/neutral it's a very intriguing/interesting situation in the Liberty League.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 31, 2019, 11:24:33 AM
Five teams in, one spot left:

1. RPI (20 points), clinched regular season title and will host semifinals/championship
2. Hobart (16 points)
3. Vassar (15 points)
4. Clarkson (15 points)
5. Ithaca (13 points)
In contention for final spot:
6. RIT (12 points)
7. St. Lawrence (10 points)

-RIT qualifies with a win, a tie OR St. Lawrence tie or loss

-St. Lawrence qualifies with a win AND an RIT loss (RIT and Ithaca both own head-to-head tiebreakers over SLU in 2-way ties with 13 points)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 31, 2019, 02:29:51 PM
GREAT season.
Great Season.
Perhaps the best in LL in the last decade or so.
Tough coming from a SLU fan, but we are all fans of the game first and foremost.
All these boys hitting the field each week have much much to be proud of I think.

ARE U NOT ENTERTAINED!!!!??

As stated above it is a race between SLU and RIT for that last spot.

I think whoever gets it, this League Tourney could be won by any 1 of the 6 teams which is saying alot for the competitive nature of our league and can only help the teams that do end up dancing this season.

Let the games begin.

Only Big games are played in November!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 01, 2019, 08:48:26 AM
Ithaca has to be in flat out panic mode right now. Started out the year strong with nice results but NYU has underperformed and Messiah was banged up with injuries so even those results look tainted. From what looked like a lock to now the definition of a bubble team...will the Bombers be snubbed again? 11-4-2 with RPI left and they have only won once in the last 5 games (1-3-1). This is not the trend you want heading into playoffs...if they lose to RPI I think they need the automatic bid to get in.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 01, 2019, 10:12:52 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 01, 2019, 08:48:26 AM
Ithaca has to be in flat out panic mode right now. Started out the year strong with nice results but NYU has underperformed and Messiah was banged up with injuries so even those results look tainted. From what looked like a lock to now the definition of a bubble team...will the Bombers be snubbed again? 11-4-2 with RPI left and they have only won once in the last 5 games (1-3-1). This is not the trend you want heading into playoffs...if they lose to RPI I think they need the automatic bid to get in.

On paper, before the season started, I expected a very good season from Ithaca--a potential Top 10 team.  After seeing them play Messiah opening weekend, I wasn't as convinced because despite all the key players Messiah was missing (and having less than a week to adjust to some of those losses), I thought Messiah was the better team in that game even though they lost.  And after NYU struggled mightily for the first 3+ weeks of the season, that win didn't really tell us anything. 

Nevertheless, it's quite the change of outlooks from the start to the end of October.  And if they lose to RPI, then I think the only way to stay on the bubble would be to win twice en route to the Liberty final, and preferably getting Clarkson instead of Vassar in the quarterfinals due to the SOS impact.  Results against teams ranked next week are there to stay, but not sure there's any realistic changes in the rankings that would help Ithaca's RvR.  Skidmore could drop out, but that eliminates a tie, not a loss.  They would want Clarkson or Vassar, who they lost to, to drop out.  Vassar plays RIT, Clarkson plays Union to close out the regular season, and losses in those games could make them vulnerable to be overtaken in the rankings.  Vassar's RvR will go from 1-2-0 to 2-4-0 with the RPI loss this week, the early season loss to Rochester and win over Clarkson now counting.  Vassar's SoS will stay the highest or near the highest in the region having played RPI this week, even if that is counted by RIT's drag on their SoS.  Clarkson will lose their win over Plattsburgh St. from their RvR, going from an impressive 4-1-2 to good 3-1-2, and their SoS will fall having played awful Potsdam St. midweek.  Ithaca is losing the tie with Cortland St. from their RvR giving them a 3-1-1 record heading into the Liberty tournament.

Needless to say, a win over RPI tomorrow would be huge for them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 01, 2019, 10:34:13 AM
Excellent analysis. If Ithaca loses to RPI tomorrow and doesn't win the tourney they will be a six loss team. Tough to get in with 6 losses.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 02, 2019, 05:18:50 PM
Deafening silence on a big day in the LL.  I am starting to get the sense that SLU fans make up the vast majority of this board.  Anyway, Vassar tries to help SLU out by scoring a penalty in the 88th minute to tie RIT and then beating them in overtime.  By then it was too late.  SLU had lost in overtime to Hobart despite going a man up in regulation.  The decades of non-losing seasons comes to an end as does SLU's 2019 campaign.  Ithaca comes up big late against RPI and keeps its Pool C hopes alive.  However, due to Vassar's win, they are now playing all their remaining LL games on the road.  Clarkson puts an exclamation point on the theme that they are still alive and Union ends the season with one of its most prolific scorers in school history having never played in a LL playoff game and with an undefeated non-conference record that now means nothing. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SaintsgoMarching on November 03, 2019, 12:55:17 AM
Congratulations to Hobart who were clearly the better team and deserved to win today.  I really enjoyed watching them play this year... Hiring Bednarsky was the smartest thing they could have done and his work in recruiting is starting to show. I imagine he was thrilled for the victory and also a little bit disgusted with the lack of quality in his alma mater.  I'd like to see AB get a crack at the SLU job one day.  I believe he would do great things at SLU.

And congratulations to the six teams heading to the Liberty League tournament. I enjoyed watching the teams play some damn good footie this year!  Just not my alma matter!  St. Lawrence looked like a team that doesn't really belong in post season.  As much as it pains me to say that, this is time for a  gut check for coaching staff and players.  I played at SLU and have always been a fan of the program. It's hard not to. We built a giant and had BIG success for two decades.  And from the outside looking in it feels as though the DNA of the program has been altered - and not for the better.

Yet I realize my view is limited to watching live-streamed games and thus it's impossible to really know what's going on in the program. I'm just a fan now, and my opinion means little.  But it was shocking to see the level of this year's SLU product. Obviously we SLUnationals hate to see the program take a dip.  Has the bar been lowered?  There is Sibanda and he has real quality. But he is out there on an island at a completely different clip than anyone else and in his absence the team was absolutely lost today.  The team showed very little understanding and there was not enough quality going forward to impact the game. What happened to the Caribbean connection? The California, Colorado and Arizona connection?  The west African connection?  What happened to the NYC connection? MLK High School? Has this coach utilized the recruiting networks that were built over three decades by Bob Durocher and his many talented assistant coaches or is he not honoring the past pipelines that sent so many Division I caliber players to St. Lawrence over the years?  Can someone shed some light please?   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2019, 01:45:21 AM
I'm only a recent alumnus and did not play for the program but have watched and followed the team closely for years now.   Recruiting is most definitely an issue, as are the tactics.   There is some international flair on the team right now, but just within the last 5 to 6 years the guys from San Diego, NYC and the likes have still not been replaced.  Toshack's insistence at playing out of the back has cost this team the past two seasons, as Brockport won the tournament match last year by capitalizing on back passes, and at least half of the losses this year occurred due to similar circumstances.   The 3 at the back simply does not work in this system.   Durocher always had a great back line with the LB and RB contributing to the offense.  Those days seem long gone now.    There are still no pure strikers on the team.     Until this season this program would enter every year with at least a 2nd round or Sweet 16 expectation.  That's been negated in rather rapid fashion.     Like you said, none of us actually know what is happening in the locker room and on the field, but man is it a bummer to see.   Toshack was an assistant coach on the 99 squad and coached in MLS as well, there is no way he doesn't have access to the blue chip recruiting pipelines.  Baffling. 

Anyways, the Liberty League has caught up, and credit goes to the teams that made the LL tourney this year.   Right now Clinton is far and away the best coach in the league right now, and Clarkson seems to be on the right path that once led them to glory in the early 90s. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on November 03, 2019, 07:37:07 AM
It has been a great LL season so far.  I don't tend to write a lot during the season and like to sit back and observe. I think the programs at RPI, Vassar and Clarkson have a lot to be proud of, but a lot of soccer is still to be played. Many thought early on that it was Ithaca and Hobart that were the class of the league, but these other programs showed the depth of the league. RPI and Vassar have their shots at a second LL Championship and I hope to see Clarkson get its first.  As a Clarkson alum I know I am biased, but I think this is a very special team and can be dangerous in the playoffs if they can score some goals. I think most people have discounted the progress Clarkson has made over the past 4-5 years and I am glad it is now beginning to show through.  I had the opportunity to spend a couple days with the team recently and was thoroughly impressed with the way the program is being run.  All of the players are class acts and the coaching staff does an incredible job of motivating players.  Clarkson has developed a very strong defensive team over the past few years and has had some very strong keepers.  Now they are beginning to play with confidence and play forward without having to just defend and counter. Having Ithaca in the quarters is a tough draw, but I think this team is confident and believes in themselves.  Only time will tell how the rest of the season plays out.  Regardless of the results this team should be extremely proud of itself and the way they have turned this program around and put it back into the conversation about the best teams in the LL.

I don't think anyone can dispute Clinton as coach of the year as it is well deserved.  Carter Lincoln also deserves a lot of credit for the work he has done at Clarkson and his accomplishments are pretty impressive for such a young coach. The other player at Clarkson that I think needs some recognition is Ian Roeloffs in goal.  He has made timely saves and is the difference between 4th place and being out of the playoffs.  I know the Ithaca keeper gets a lot of press and accolades, but if I had to build a team for a tournament run I would take Ian every day of the week and twice on Sunday.  I hope he gets the recognition that he deserves when the LL selections come out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2019, 12:26:40 PM
Great year in the LL.
Looking forward to the playoffs and watching the 6 teams that fought hard and are there because of tehir hard work.
Special mention to RIT (battled hard all year and earned a spot at the very end).
Vassar has had a great season with some special wins and Clarkson has not gone over the hump and could win this entire thing.

I think any one of these teams can win actually.
My hope is that we have atleast 2 teams dancing as a league this season.

SLU has had a bad season like any other program.
I think that the SLU fans should continue to support their team and hopefully things can be turned around with a few changes and better recruiting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 04, 2019, 01:29:19 PM
Tuesday
#6 RIT at #3 Vassar, 11 a.m.
#5 Ithaca at #4 Clarkson, 4 p.m.

Saturday
Ithaca-Clarkson winner at #1 RPI, 4 p.m.
RIT-Vassar winner vs. Hobart at RPI, 6:30 p.m.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SaintsgoMarching on November 04, 2019, 02:16:38 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 04, 2019, 12:26:40 PM
Great year in the LL.
Looking forward to the playoffs and watching the 6 teams that fought hard and are there because of tehir hard work.
Special mention to RIT (battled hard all year and earned a spot at the very end).
Vassar has had a great season with some special wins and Clarkson has not gone over the hump and could win this entire thing.

I think any one of these teams can win actually.
My hope is that we have atleast 2 teams dancing as a league this season.

SLU has had a bad season like any other program.
I think that the SLU fans should continue to support their team and hopefully things can be turned around with a few changes and better recruiting.


I would like to know what has happened to those long standing pipelines SLU used to get players from?  Does Toshak not reach out to the old alumns who used to send players to Canton?  The current group of players looks a full notch below the standard of the program.  I.E. not good enough to wear that shirt.

SAINT OF OLD - please shed some light.  You seem like a knowledgeable alumni with still close connections to the program. I used to help the program out with players, Durocher would call me all the time to ask about kids in my area.  But the current head coach has not contacted me once to ask about players in my zone...  I wouldn't care if he was recruiting SLU quality players, but he is clearly not. The current crop of players is lacking.  This is a 5 year re build process in my opinion. We will be an average mid table team until the current group of players graduate and phase out. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on November 04, 2019, 02:33:06 PM
RPI becomes the first non Hobart/SLU regular season winner in 8 years since Vassar in 2012.

SLU 18,15,14,13
Hobart 17, 16
Vassar 12

A lot of concern being expressed about St Lawrence, but they still have the most recent era regular season championships. Not sure it is possible to win the league every year and current D3 recruiting is very competitive. I think it is fair to say that there are a lot of good teams in the LL where excellent players want to play and some very fine schools that students want to attend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 05, 2019, 10:31:09 AM
RIT might just continue this improbable journey and advance to the Semi final.

There is no room  for anyone to falter in these playoffs, except for RPI.

I am rooting for anyone but RPI to win, not because I dont like and respect the program, but because I would really like to see 2 teams from this conference in the dance and RPI will more than likely get an at large regardless of how they finish in the league tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 05, 2019, 11:20:39 AM
it's like watching EPL on Saturday mornings on NBCSN, only it's the Liberty League and following live stats at the office on a Tuesday.

Goal Tigers! Garno header in the 18th minute. 1-0 to RIT.

Reason for the early start btw - Vassar women also hosting today (against Union) and have to get both matches in before dark.

EDIT: Vassar equalizes in the 25th. About 10 minutes left before halftime now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: NoSuchThingAsOffsides on November 05, 2019, 01:02:14 PM
long time/first time

I haven't been able to catch as many matches this season and have just been watching out of the corner of my eye but RITs fullbacks seem a bit rough. To their credit I think they have sucked Vassar into their game but wouldn't be shocked if either one gives the game away here.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 05, 2019, 01:43:10 PM
1-1 final and RIT advances on penalties. Both teams made their first three kicks, each missed the 4th, final round Vassar no good and RIT buries it to move on to Troy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 05, 2019, 05:20:36 PM
Clarkson with an early 2nd half goal and leads 1-0 with about half an hour remaining. This would be an incredibly disappointing end to a Bombers season that looked like it was going to be special.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 05, 2019, 05:56:55 PM
Ithaca loses.  A great win against RPI with a bunch of losses surrounding it.  Clarkson should move past them in the rankings along with Hobart and RPI.  Is Ithaca done?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 05, 2019, 06:57:36 PM
The Ithaca coach says:

We have had a remarkable season with four wins over Top 25 programs and believe that we stand an excellent chance at a Pool C bid on Monday," said Dezotell. "We have been in the top four in our region and top 25 in the country all season. We will be ready when the call comes."
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 05, 2019, 07:30:48 PM
Those are the positives from the coach. Negatives are 1-3 in last four games, 5th in league, one and done in tourney, and 2 losses to the Clarkson team that has a claim to their spot in the next regional rankings. Also abysmal road record where they would be in the dance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 05, 2019, 07:31:27 PM
I think Ithaca's goose is cooked.  I am far from an expert on tournament selections but I think they at minimum they need RPI and Oneonta to win the LL and SUNYAC tourneys in order to have a chance.  Year in year out LL gets shortchanged due to NESCAC sucking up Pool C oxygen (usually for good reason).   I'd love to see Clarkson win the LL tournament (is this sacrilegious as a SLU alum??).   That program has had a phenomenal turn around and it'd be great to see the North Country represented in the tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on November 06, 2019, 05:45:57 AM
Stlawus - coming from a Clarkson alum we'll take any support we can get.  I have said a few times I've actually become a big fan of SLU over the past decade and have a lot of respect for their program.

I am also not an expert, but I have trouble seeing a path to the tournament for Ithaca. I don't see how you can put Ithaca ahead of Clarkson in the rankings at this point. Clarkson is 9-1-3 since their week long debacle in early September (loses to Brockport, Geneseo and Utica).  They have beaten Ithaca twice and have draws with RPI and Hobart with the only loss being on the road to Vassar as they began to round into form. The early season win against Otterbein is also looking much better, especially if they maintain their regional ranking in the midwest.  If Plattsburgh has a good showing in the SUNYAC tournament then that could be another quality win for Clarkson.  It will be interesting to see how the committee looks at the three loses against mediocre teams early in the season versus their resume over the past 6 weeks.

I think RPI and Hobart should be locks for the tourney and Clarkson likely has some work to do to get a Pool C. I would think a shootout loss against RPI or a win in the semis would make them a very viable Pool C if they were to lose the AQ in the final. If Clarkson is ahead of Ithaca in the rankings then I don't see any chance for Ithaca making it as the LL getting 4 teams in is not very likely given the SOS of the region.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 06, 2019, 09:22:29 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on November 05, 2019, 06:57:36 PM
The Ithaca coach says:

We have had a remarkable season with four wins over Top 25 programs and believe that we stand an excellent chance at a Pool C bid on Monday," said Dezotell. "We have been in the top four in our region and top 25 in the country all season. We will be ready when the call comes."

Ithaca is done. Rochester will jump them and Clarkson has a shot as well depending what happens down the stretch. The Messiah win early in the year doesn't look as strong due to the injuries they faced and the recent form has been troubling. 2-4-1 in last 6 is not the kind of form you want to see when making a playoff and NCAA push and I don't believe the committee will value it either. Last year's resume might have been slightly stronger and if there were 2 more teams last year like this year they would have been in but I think they will certainly come up short this year. Wrong side of the bubble for me right now. The 2 losses to Clarkson has done them in as I don't see how they can be ahead of Clarkson in the rankings at this point. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on November 06, 2019, 12:30:42 PM
Not sure Ithaca has beaten 4 top 25 teams. It looks like Messiah and RPI would be the two teams that fall into that category.

Looking across all the NCAA region rankings, the top group of teams in the east have some of the lower SOS numbers. In terms of the Liberty League is this in part due to playing Union and Bard? Does anyone know how much teams with low SOS reduce their opponents SOS? Is it minimal or significant? Top LL sides this year did their best to schedule demanding games including good SUNYAC teams, NESCAC and UAA etc. but it still seems hard to build their SOS up. Just curious.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Christan Shirk on November 06, 2019, 02:12:57 PM
EAST REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - November 06, 2019

Rank

School
. Div. III .
Record
. Div. III .
SOS

 . R-v-R .
. Overall .
Record
. Prev. .
Rank
1.
RPI
14-2-2
0.576
6-2-2
14-2-2
1
2.
Ithaca
12-4-2
0.562
3-2-1
12-4-2
4
3.
Rochester
11-5-0
0.567
4-2-0
11-5-0
5
4.
Hobart
13-4-1
0.561
3-3-1
13-4-1
3
5.
Vassar
9-6-1
0.592
2-4-0
9-7-1
6
6.
Oneonta State
15-2-0
0.551
0-1-0
15-2-0
2
7.
Cortland State
8-6-3
0.581
1-3-1
8-6-3
--
8.
Clarkson
10-4-3
0.527
3-1-2
10-4-3
7
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 06, 2019, 02:36:08 PM
maybe the committee didn't yet take yesterday into consideration? Seems hard to justify.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 06, 2019, 02:37:44 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 06, 2019, 02:36:08 PM
maybe the committee didn't yet take yesterday into consideration? Seems hard to justify.

Like all other rankings, these are based on results thru Sunday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 06, 2019, 02:50:58 PM
With Ithaca's win over RPI, they were always going to at least hold their position or overtake Hobart.  What we weren' t thinking about was Oneonta State who, with SUNYAC rivals Plattsburgh and Cortland dropping out of the rankings last week, would have their RvR go from 3-1-0* to 0-1-0. (* I think Oneonta's 3-1-0 RvR last week was incorrect and should have been just 2-1-0).  Ithaca is in better shape then we thought, but who knows what happens with the remaining games and how the rankings will shake out after Sunday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on November 06, 2019, 03:36:58 PM
Are results from the week of league tournaments factored into final NCAA selection criteria?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 06, 2019, 03:51:19 PM
Yes, the rankings they will do Sunday night/Monday morning will incorporate the results from Monday, Nov. 4 thru Sunday, November 10.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 06, 2019, 07:01:48 PM
Based on these rankings Ithaca is in for sure as are Hobart and RPI. Clarkson will have to get the AQ which should give the LL 4 spots—an unprecedented result.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 09, 2019, 10:46:52 PM
Clarkson and Hobart through - each game went to PKs
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 10, 2019, 09:31:40 AM
Clarkson is the feel good story of the year. RPI is a.definite Pool C but has to be worried about its offense. No goals in the last two games and their freshman phenom has been shutout for three. Things change when defenses catch on to a one-dimensional offense. If Clarkson wins today does the LL get three Pool Cs?  Even if they don't is Clarkson still in the running although they have been done no favors in the regional rankings?  Amherst's loss means they are slotted for a Pool C and Rochester's tie with Emory likely gets them one as well. Oneonta getting the AQ may it is the only Sunyac team in the dance opening space for more LL teams.  Does Vassar have any chance at all with its mid-level third regional ranking and strong SOS combined with an early tournament exit due ro a home tie to a team with an overall losing record? Help me Obiwan Kenobi. You are my only hope.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 10, 2019, 05:33:32 PM
Congratulations to the Statesmen and Clarkson for a well fought championship match. Hobart wins 2-1 but Clarkson gave it everything they had. Go Statesmen, 2 titles in 3 years!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 10, 2019, 07:04:22 PM
2 possibly 3 teams representing the LL this year in the tourney.   Very nice effort by Hobart today coming back from a 1-0 deficit as a result of a spectacular free kick by Clarkson.  Hobart isn't the flashiest team but they make very few mistakes and capitalize on their chances. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on November 11, 2019, 05:42:12 AM
Clarkson's run came up a little short, but I am hoping they did enough to get a pool C. At this point I am worried that they may come up a little short again.  I think the key may come down to what happens at the bottom of the East rankings as much as the top. I can't see Cortland holding on to a top 8 spot after losing again to Oneonta in the SUNYAC semi's which would mean Ithaca loses a tie in the RvR dropping back to 3-3-0.  If Plattsburgh can move into that 8th spot it would give Clarkson another RvR win and push them to 4-2-3 with neither Vassar or Ithaca having played them. I think that could be enough to push them past both Vassar and Ithaca and into the mix for one of the last pool C's.  I could also see Skidmore move back into the #8 spot which would give Clarkson a W, Ithaca a draw and Vassar another L in the RvR which could improve Clarkson's outlook.  The last scenario that could play out if things go right is that Clarkson and Otterbein could both be on the board at the same time and Clarkson would have a win in H2H.  I'm hoping I'm right and some of these come to pass and get them a pool C.  Regardless of the outcome I can say I am extremely proud of the Clarkson program and everything they have done this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 11, 2019, 10:34:38 AM
Quote from: CU_GKnight on November 11, 2019, 05:42:12 AM
Clarkson's run came up a little short, but I am hoping they did enough to get a pool C. At this point I am worried that they may come up a little short again.  I think the key may come down to what happens at the bottom of the East rankings as much as the top. I can't see Cortland holding on to a top 8 spot after losing again to Oneonta in the SUNYAC semi's which would mean Ithaca loses a tie in the RvR dropping back to 3-3-0.  If Plattsburgh can move into that 8th spot it would give Clarkson another RvR win and push them to 4-2-3 with neither Vassar or Ithaca having played them. I think that could be enough to push them past both Vassar and Ithaca and into the mix for one of the last pool C's.  I could also see Skidmore move back into the #8 spot which would give Clarkson a W, Ithaca a draw and Vassar another L in the RvR which could improve Clarkson's outlook.  The last scenario that could play out if things go right is that Clarkson and Otterbein could both be on the board at the same time and Clarkson would have a win in H2H.  I'm hoping I'm right and some of these come to pass and get them a pool C.  Regardless of the outcome I can say I am extremely proud of the Clarkson program and everything they have done this season.

Yes, if Clarkson could get a 4th win versus a ranked opponent, that would give them a good shot.  If you haven't read Jim Hutchinson's article on D3soccer.com https://d3soccer.prestosports.com/columns/jim-hutchinson/2019/womens-pool-c-early breaking down the women's at-large selections over the past 8 years as they releate to the major metricts of win pct., SOS, and RvR, you should.  Who knows how closely the men's side is to the women's side, but for the women, four ranked wins virtually guarantees selection (only 1 of 47 women's Pool C teams with 4 wins WvR over that time period did not get selected).

For personal reasons would love to see Clarkson selected, but I do not see how Plattsburgh State would move ahead of Vassar in today's rankings.  Hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 11, 2019, 10:36:14 AM
A lot to be proud about and I feel your frustration. The d3 soccer prognosticators have Clarkson behind Ithaca, a team they beat twice, and 9 win Vassar. Clarkson didn't lose to the top ranked team in the region. They lost in Poughkeepsie but they haven't played a good game in Poughkeepsie in a decade.  I would think total win percentage is still important.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 11, 2019, 02:16:28 PM
nice to see the Bombers got in and RPI is hosting, but if Clarkson feels salty about not making it, especially over an IC team they beat twice, I certainly won't tell them they're wrong.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 11, 2019, 03:36:36 PM
Looking at some of the decisions reminds me of the human factor, rather than the number crunching, behind the choices. Trinity is hosting not due to this year's performance but rather its and its coach's legacy of excellence. The committee choose Ithaca in part to right last year's wrong. Maybe Clarkson will get that benefit next year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Christan Shirk on November 11, 2019, 03:46:16 PM
EAST REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - November 11, 2019

Rank

School
. Div. III .
Record
. Div. III .
SOS

 . R-v-R .
. Overall .
Record
. Prev. .
Rank
1.
RPI
14-2-3
0.580
6-2-2
14-2-3
1
2.
Rochester
11-5-1
0.571
4-3-0
11-5-1
3
3.
Hobart
14-4-2
0.562
5-3-1
14-4-2
4
4.
Ithaca
12-5-2
0.564
3-3-1
12-5-2
2
5.
Oneonta State
17-2-0
0.557
4-1-0
17-2-0
6
6.
Vassar
9-6-2
0.582
2-3-0
9-7-2
5
7.
Clarkson
11-5-4
0.556
4-2-3
11-5-4
8
8.
Plattsburgh State
11-8-0
0.585
1-6-0
11-8-0
--
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on November 11, 2019, 08:11:20 PM
Can anyone attempt to explain this ranking?  I'm guessing that Christian only posting an individual ranking in one thread may mean he was left scratching his head as well...  I know I am biased towards Clarkson, but I just don't see how you get Ithaca three spots higher.  How does a team that finishes 5th in the league during regular season and get knocked out before the semi-finals of the tournament end up at #4 in the region?  Their only quality win out of conference was against a depleted Messiah in the first week of the season.  Is a win over Messiah worth that much? At the end of the day I can accept Clarkson didn't make it in and that this is what can happen when you put your destiny in the hands of the committee.

How do you explain Oneontas ranking? Having watched all of these teams in the past week I think they have a legitimate claim to being the #1 team in the region and end up at #5 with a potential match up with Messiah in the second round.

I just would like someone to explain how you can justify this bracket because I can't come up with any rational explanations myself.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on November 11, 2019, 10:31:47 PM
One thing I've noticed throughout the past few years is that soooo much emphasis (too much in my opinion) is placed on SoS. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 12, 2019, 12:50:32 PM
Congrats to RPI/Hobart and Ithaca.
The Bombers deserved to get in... atleast last season they did and this seems like it evened out quite well.
RPI was a lock no matter what. Glad to see them hosting on that Turf.
Hobart are champs and hopefully they can make a deep run.

I will be rooting for all these teams.

Really feel bad for Clarkson, hopefully they will be back in the thick of things next year fighting for a Pool C spot or an automatic bid and this was not just a one year super season... What a season they had. Almost pulled it off against all odds.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 18, 2019, 04:54:08 PM
Just have to send on my big ups to the RPI squad .
They really did this league proud.
Also they have a chance to make a really deep run in the Tourney now as well.

What is most impressive is that RPI is a sweet 16 team that is extremely young and led by freshmen.

The above is the best sentence a club can have said about their program.

Looking forward to much continued deserved success for coach Clinton and his boyz.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on November 19, 2019, 04:08:01 PM
Agreed re: RPI. They looked good against Middlebury, more on front foot and controlled much of second half and overtime, just couldn't manage to score. While many point to Messiah injuries in August, Hobart and Ithaca have already beaten them, so hopefully the LL can go 3-0 v Messiah this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on November 19, 2019, 05:04:59 PM
Apologies in advance, but I have to chuckle at the sky is falling comments from the SLU crew. You guys make it sound like you're on the path to becoming Bard.  Of your 8 losses this year, 5 were by 1 goal, 4 were to then-top20 teams, and 4 were to eventual tournament teams.  And yes you made some pretty brutal mistakes - as most teams do - but you weren't terrible.  You can't have a 12-3-3 season every year.  Have faith boys. Things will turn around.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SaintsgoMarching on November 19, 2019, 08:26:05 PM
Much respect to the RPI men's soccer team.  Bravo! I love watching this team play.

As a former SLU player and fan, it feels a little weird to say this, but I love the way RPI play the game.  They remind me of the SLU of old.

And a big kudos to Ithaca and Hobart who both had tremendous seasons and much to be proud of.

My condolences to Clarkson - they absolutely deserved to be in the dance. And the way they were playing down the stretch would have made them a very tough draw for any team in the NCAA Tournament.

Looking around the league, there is no reason to believe that SLU will be able to regain the top spot in the conference any time soon. It will take them at least 5 years to rebuild the program.

Good luck to RPI and coach Clinton! I expect them to go toe to toe against Messiah and believe they will come out on top!  Prediction - RPI (3) - Messiah (2) OT
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 22, 2019, 12:16:55 PM
Gotta agree with RPI.
Not sure they will get over the Messiah monster this weekend, but if they do there is no reason to think this team cannot go all the way to the promised land.

This is what Soccer overall and D3 soccer is all about.
Its not necessarily the success, but the journey to get to that success thats the key.
Clinton built his team year by year and is always comeetetive and at the top of the league and finally the break through.

These guys have freshmen leading them so dont think this is a one year thing... I see this team being regional and maybe even National power for years to come.
This game against Messiah is the biggest in program history and I would not bet against these guys at all.

Well done Engineers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 23, 2019, 09:37:14 AM
Looking forward to LL season sweep of Messiah today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rudy on November 23, 2019, 09:42:37 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 23, 2019, 09:37:14 AM
Looking forward to LL season sweep of Messiah today.


If RPI can pull it off then they deserve all the credit. This is not the same Messiah team from opening weekend so it won't be easy. Looking forward to the game! Anyone here attending the game besides me?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 23, 2019, 10:54:33 AM
Quote from: rudy on November 23, 2019, 09:42:37 AM
Looking forward to the game! Anyone here attending the game besides me?

ETA 11:35 am
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 23, 2019, 10:59:04 AM
Damn...i should of gone today...I know NSN is going to screw us toiday
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 23, 2019, 04:04:38 PM
LL 3 -  Messiah 0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Falconer on November 23, 2019, 04:17:44 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 23, 2019, 04:04:38 PM
LL 3 -  Messiah 0
Big ouch, but you can fairly say it. Congratulations to RPI, who in OT won a highly entertaining, unusually well played, dead even game. A few inches this way or that way, and either team wins before OT. The PK looked like a good call.

Messiah definitely missed Reid Ruark, who started at DMF all season but received some sort of ankle or lower leg injury vs Oneonta last week. I noticed they made a further adjustment at halftime, putting Jake Loop-Kent at CB and moving Adam Cole forward, where he played very effectively. A tough way to go out, but I'm glad it wasn't on PKs. If RPI gets past Amherst on that small field in what might be a torrential downpour tomorrow, I say they win it all.

Messiah will lose to graduation two top notch defenders, one of whom I predict finally gets his AA citation (Cooper Robbins), plus the keeper and the very dangerous winger Micah Fitz. But, the current FR and SO classes are loaded with talent. I don't know yet what's coming in next year, but I do know the Falcons did not get their most highly sought recruit, who chose D1 Maryland over Messiah. (His two brothers were Falcons, so Messiah truly was in the running for an extraordinarily gifted recruit.)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 26, 2019, 12:42:04 PM
In Praise of RPI.

I am absolutely proud of the way this team represented theLL.
I think the season was a huge success and something the program will build on.
As an Old Saint, I can recall losing a Quater Final Game the team thought it should have won to a former champion from the NESCAC.

That type of thing can inspire a Very young team playing good football for a very good Coach.

Saying all of the above should have Saint fans and the rest of the league really worried because I see the foundation for great success being laid right now at RPI.

Teams will have big problems with them next season after the confidence and hunger they will have going forward.
The most important thing for a player or team is confidence followed closely by hunger.
RPI has more of that than they ever have as a program and now the future is extremely bright with a coach that wont allow them to rest on what they have done, but keep pushing towards the pinnacle.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on December 06, 2019, 11:42:23 AM
RPI has a great foundation and has a bunch of returning impact players for next year.  Ithaca and Hobart will graduate a bunch of quality seniors so time will tell for those programs.  As we saw again this year a newcomer can make a huge difference in the success of a team.  Finally, I am sometimes perplexed by the league and regional awards.  This year what I don't understand is how a team that finished third in the league and sixth in the region didn't have one player make first or second team LL (sorry HM doesn't count--see NESCAC) or receive any regional recognition.  Vassar's coaching staff should be applauded for almost making the Dance with, according to the league's and region's coaches, no player worthy of all star team status. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red Dog on December 06, 2019, 12:11:23 PM
As the final four plays out this weekend a shout out to the LL representative on the woman's side, William Smith, who play this afternoon. Great to see LL soccer in the national spotlight. It is also worth recognizing Hobart & William Smith Colleges for winning both sides of the LL championships this year which is a great achievement for the institution.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on December 06, 2019, 03:59:39 PM
The ladies from William Smith have been balling now for quite some time.
They have already reached the pinnacle and won national championships and now they will likely add more.

Big shout out to these girls and hats off to them for being a National Powerhouse representing the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on June 30, 2021, 01:31:06 AM
2020 was a lost year and it is time to start early for 2021 on this last day of June.  Some LL schedules already out.  Kudos to Hobart for demanding fixtures.  Two strong UAA teams and Cortland along with a Buffalo State team with 15 wins in 2019  are some excellent non-conference tests.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 02, 2021, 08:29:56 AM
It is the Big Reset Nationally.
The head coach of the kings of the country and the top dog in D3 soccer during this era has moved to Harvard, so nationally it might be wide open. We all know that a change of head coach can have a drastic impact on a program, unless you are Messiah ofcoarse and decide to not fix what is not broken.
It may be the same reset after covid regionally, and definitely for the LL.
I see 4 teams really gunning for the title of top dog in the conference this year and Hobart leads the list, so I am happy that they are proactive.
Hobart has some great returning talent, a good recent and mid-term history, great coach and a very good assistant,AB7, who  has dominated the league and country before with his skills, and now is becoming a master tactician.
The Bombers will also have a good run and in only the 3rd year in the LL has made it to the dance and competed very hard for the league and tourney title.
RPI is always there, they are so very well coached and a model program, you know Clinton has used this time off to really fine tune his machine and get the boys where he wants them.
Vassar earns this spot over my dark horse (RIT) because they are simply consistent. Year after year they will compete.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 03, 2021, 04:14:35 PM
Saint--Glad to see you survived the pandemic.  Hopefully all of the regulars on the board came through relatively unscathed.  I like your predictions but you left out your alma mater.  I think it is very difficult to predict this year until we see the rosters.  A lot depends on whether seniors who would normally have graduated this spring actually return to school.  The sole All American from 2019 would have been a senior at RPI during 20-21.  Whether Bisson graduates and doesn't stay at RPI as a grad student will have a big impact on that team.  Indeed all of the universities offering large menus of graduate degrees will have an advantage keeping seniors with a year of eligibility than the liberal arts colleges with no graduate programs.  Also, with the demise of the Development Academy, and the pandemic, recruiting of players starting in the fall must have been a real crap shoot.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 04, 2021, 07:45:33 AM
Fan, how are you Brother.
Glad to see you made it out on the other side as well.
Hats off to these boys representing the LL.
They can honestly say that they overcame more off field distractions than any of us ever did.
It also means, instead of listening to old timers like us saying "it goes fast" they actually know this as a fact.

I never overlook my beloved boys in Canton. 

I hope they can bounce back and have a good year.  This is just a very tough and competitive league top to bottom right now.

I might do a write-up on what I see happening this season, but I am sure that whoever comes out of the LL will do the league proud.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 04, 2021, 04:18:05 PM
We won't know until the rosters are posted, but I too am wondering if there were any seniors in the league that took a semester off last year in order to play this upcoming fall.   Soccer benefits from the fact that it is in one semester so you wouldn't have to take an entire year off to save your eligibility.   I say this because a significant amount of players on the SLU basketball team took the entire year off which would lead one to believe players around the league would likely have taken the spring semester off in order to play this fall.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 07, 2021, 07:32:05 PM
That's a really good point.  There may be some very large rosters or some disappointed freshman.  On a different subject, and this was already addressed on the schedules thread, Union has outdone itself in putting together an out of conference schedule that may have the lowest SOS in league history.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 08, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Union does this every year and I continue to be baffled why.   It appears like they try to rely on the league SOS to help them or they think the only chance they have of making the tourney is to win the league tournament.  They have not been particularly competitive in that regard so you would think you would at least try to schedule some potential good wins in the case you did have a good league showing but fell short in the tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 08, 2021, 03:28:28 PM
Yeah, kinda like playing around  with the ball in the back forever, without purpose and getting pressed,  picked on and scored on time and time again.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 08, 2021, 07:36:31 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on July 08, 2021, 03:28:28 PM
Yeah, kinda like playing around  with the ball in the back forever, without purpose and getting pressed,  picked on and scored on time and time again.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

You know how to twist the knife fellow Saint.   Sadly, what you said is completely accurate about our squad.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 13, 2021, 10:57:53 PM
I'm sure it will be better this year after the players and coaches have watched all of the European National Teams do the same thing in Euro 2020.    Kudos to Ithaca for a very respectable OOC schedule including Cortland, Stevens, Hamilton's return to Liberty League action, and away at Lycoming.  I am certain they tried to schedule a pharmacy or culinary arts school but there is just too much demand for those opponents.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 13, 2021, 11:00:46 PM
I'm sure it will be better this year after the players and coaches have watched all of the European National Teams do the same thing in Euro 2020.    Kudos to Ithaca for a very respectable OOC schedule including Cortland, Stevens, Hamilton's return to Liberty League action, and away at Lycoming.  I am certain they tried to schedule a pharmacy or culinary arts school but there is just too much demand for those opponents.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 14, 2021, 04:13:57 PM
Yea that's a very respectable schedule for Ithaca.  SLU's isn't out yet but I know at least 4 OOC games are Buff State, Potsdam/Canton (these 2 teams are the on the schedule every year) and Oneonta.  For a while they went without playing Oneonta but the last few years they've resumed the fixture which I am happy about.  Buff State has also had some really good teams in recent seasons.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 27, 2021, 05:30:38 PM
SLU schedule is up.  Very happy with the non-conference schedule.  Buff State, Oneonta and Cortland are all tough teams and Geneseo is usually no easy feat.   The usual NoCo matchups with Canton and Potsdam, and what should be a winnable game against Hartwick but who knows with them anymore, especially with the way SLU played in their last season.   Disappointed to see only a scrimmage against Plattsburgh, that's usually a good non-con matchup.  SLU usually scrimmages a D1 team which is on the schedule again this year against Shapiro's Harvard squad. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 31, 2021, 06:51:04 AM
Brother Saint.
You prove that the best thing about college soccer and this site is indeed the fans. The guys who will support the team no matter what.

I will always support the team, but also have to acknowledge that the last losing season SLU had before last year was 1992.

I feel old saying this but 1992  was almost 30 years 3 decades ago. The team won a Chip, but 30 years of not just winning football but good football.

It all starts with good football. There are those who think only results matter and that is true to a point, but people remember the Dutch team of 74 and the Brazil team of 82 not because they won but the football was always pristine.
The football must be good first and foremost before any thought of winning can be had.

SLU soccer is made from two things that work hand in hand Aggression and Skill.  Sounds simple but hard to pull off.

Wishing the boys the best this season as always.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 02, 2021, 02:09:01 PM
One factor weighing on where things shake out this year for all the teams is whether they have seniors who would have graduated in spring 2021 holding over.  There were 13 All Liberty League players who were juniors during the 2019 season.  At least it is clear that one, Skidmore's Stanley Langyintuo, a first teamer, decided to graduate and try to play post college.  Two teams, Ithaca and Hobart have posted their 2021 rosters not including freshman.  Both have holdovers.  The most impactful are Jonathan Kyriakidis from Ithaca and August Martini from Hobart.  Some big names still up in the air.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on August 04, 2021, 01:54:13 PM
RPI and Ithaca included in the Top 25 released by the United Soccer Coaches today:

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 06, 2021, 07:43:02 PM
Much respect to these 2 league powers.
RPI has always been class class class. Clinton is a top coach and GETS THE MOST OUT OF EVERY TEAM which is how you judge a coach.
The top notch talent wont be there year in year out but the real coaches are able to maximize potential which is what Clinton always does. That last deep run he made was so very much deserved for the program. He might just Engineer something this year.

The Bombers took to a very tough league like fish to water had a nice dance the last season as well. Historic programs that have been good for  very long time and having a resurgence is what football is all about.

Both these programs know though that its where you are ranked at the end of the season that truly matters.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 26, 2021, 11:39:28 AM
Saints 2021 roster is posted.  SLU had 10 juniors on its 2019 team including Captain and 2018 all LL player Sam Sapnar, as well as a pretty impressive Spanish midfielder.  They are all gone.  The only 2021 senior has no apparent college playing experience.  This year, like 2019, could be another work in progress. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 26, 2021, 01:44:12 PM
The senior you mention is a transfer from Old Dominion, but your point still stands.  They have another transfer from Seton Hall in the squad that might help a bit, but after 2019 ( a season that had a lot of roster turnover) I am not going to raise my expectations.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 26, 2021, 02:15:55 PM
Good catch St. Law.  I should have googled him as his biography on the SLU website was blank.  He is not quite the player he was at Old Dominion.  At ODU he was 6'1 165, and now he is 5'11 160.  It is funny how some schools, especially D1, tend to exaggera
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: StellaArtois on August 26, 2021, 10:54:05 PM
Hobart has a new coach on their staff
https://hwsathletics.com/news/2021/7/15/hobart-soccer-pasic-hired-as-hobart-soccer-assistant-coach.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 27, 2021, 12:27:30 PM
D1 Xferrs do not have a good track record at SLU but for a few.
I wish the young man luck.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

SLU had its first losing season in 30 years last season. Looking more like Arsenal lately more than the AJAX model the team was built and sustained on.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 28, 2021, 08:13:37 AM
Where are they playing the SLU / Harvard scrimmage? Sometimes they choose a field halfway for both schools. You would think SLU will be making the trip to Cambridge but sometimes Ivies cannot find scrimmages because they start so late compared to other D1s.

Anyway do we have a time / location for that match?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 28, 2021, 01:08:31 PM
Let us know about the game if you get there Mr. Right.  It should be interesting.  Coach Tosch loses 10 seniors to a covid marred season, and Harvard has won 5 games total in the past 3 seasons, including no wins in 2019--an unbelievably embarrassing record for arguably the finest college in the world and one who should have its pick of the Jordan Morrises that are out there.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 28, 2021, 01:51:38 PM
The SLU scrimmage against Harvard will be at 7 PM on Harvard's home field.   I was hoping there would be a stream somewhere but I don't think there will be. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 30, 2021, 10:24:24 AM
Clarkson posts roster. Unlike SLU it retains 3 Jr starters from its 2019 team that almost made the NCAA tourney including Mack Walton and Brandon Bahr. Two of these players are listed as grad students. Clarkson is loaded for a redux.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 30, 2021, 11:51:21 AM
RPI also posts.  League should be afraid, very afraid.  Not surprising that Coach Clinton who is loved by his players would retain all of his elgible stars.  All American Trevor Bisson, and First Teamer Michael Harten return as 5th years.  POY Josh Gaudiano instead of perhaps seeking greener D1 pastures returns for his second season.  Perhaps Mr. Right can chime in on this--how difficult will it be for Williams to beat RPI in its first game after RPI already has two games under its belt?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 31, 2021, 05:21:51 PM
I am going to continue to blog with myself until the SLU fans can get past their early season dread, see the light at the end of the tunnel (although likely not this year's tunnel) and start contributing again.  Last year I predicted that Hobart would win it all, and since I was right, i will be presumptuous enough to share my predictions for this year:
1) RPI--loaded from back to front
2) Hobart--word on the street is that they have more than enough new talent to replace their graduates
3) Vassar--last year was one win away from winning league regular season and did it with scotch tape and twine (at least judging by the LL awards).  This year coach Jennings will find a way again and game with Clarkson with decide who is 3rd or 4th.
4) Clarkson--hasn't beaten Vassar in Poughkeepsie since 2010 and will not change this year
5) Ithaca--Not enough up top to be top tier in this defense oriented league
6) SLU--Making the playoffs will be noteworthy given their losses to graduation
7) RIT--Having been shut out of the NCAA since joining the LL, the school with the largest enrollment should have the horses but doesn't
8) Bard--Makes it out of the cellar because Union's pre-conference schedule makes it unprepared to compete
9) Union--Pre-conference schedule is simply an embarrassment


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 31, 2021, 05:37:36 PM
Oops, forgot Skidmore which slips in after RIT as it loses its best offensive threat to the covid lost season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 31, 2021, 07:05:53 PM
I don't disagree with any of those predictions on paper.  But as the saying goes, nothing is played on paper.   There's nothing else to base these predictions on, so you pretty much have to go with them, I just think everyone missing a year will result in some weird happenings by the end of the season.   Many a time a team that was considered to be "loaded" ended up floundering and teams that had no expectations flourished.  This could be exacerbated by the fact no one has played in 2 years.  And no this not me trying to cope with the SLU prognostications lol.    Ultimately RPI has some of the best coaching, as does Hobart so they have an advantage for a season like this even if they didn't have the personnel. 

I'm just grateful that there's a chance for me to be upset because that means a season is being played.  While we all have our fandoms and predictions, the fact that there is a season is most important, and hopefully results in the league having a great showing come tournament time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 01, 2021, 06:49:22 PM
Lots of LL action tonight, I'll be tuning into Hobart and Clarkson primarily.   Hopefully a great start to the season!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 01, 2021, 07:06:36 PM
Great game to tell us where two of the top teams in the league stand.
Sooo very happy for these boys.
This is what they love this is what we love.
Playing the games, competing.

We all took this thing somewhat for granted, but the absence has made the heart grow fonder for watching the game we love played by the men who love the game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldNed on September 01, 2021, 08:44:32 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 31, 2021, 05:21:51 PM
I am going to continue to blog with myself until the SLU fans can get past their early season dread, see the light at the end of the tunnel (although likely not this year's tunnel) and start contributing again.  Last year I predicted that Hobart would win it all, and since I was right, i will be presumptuous enough to share my predictions for this year:
1) RPI--loaded from back to front
2) Hobart--word on the street is that they have more than enough new talent to replace their graduates
3) Vassar--last year was one win away from winning league regular season and did it with scotch tape and twine (at least judging by the LL awards).  This year coach Jennings will find a way again and game with Clarkson with decide who is 3rd or 4th.
4) Clarkson--hasn't beaten Vassar in Poughkeepsie since 2010 and will not change this year
5) Ithaca--Not enough up top to be top tier in this defense oriented league
6) SLU--Making the playoffs will be noteworthy given their losses to graduation
7) RIT--Having been shut out of the NCAA since joining the LL, the school with the largest enrollment should have the horses but doesn't
8) Bard--Makes it out of the cellar because Union's pre-conference schedule makes it unprepared to compete
9) Union--Pre-conference schedule is simply an embarrassment

Not a good opening day for Vassar, losing 3-1 to Western Connecticut. Box score indicates Western Connecticut had a player red carded in the 26th minute just after they went up 2-0.  Vassar had a man advantage until the 78th minute when a Vassar player was red carded, too.  Not only did Western Connecticut hold the line while playing a man down, they managed to score another to make it 3-0 before a late Vassar goal. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on September 01, 2021, 09:10:50 PM
I watched some of that Vassar game.  They had some glaring holes, but I think WCU deserves credit.  They showed a lot of individual skill and were able to create several good counterattacking opportunities.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 01, 2021, 10:20:49 PM
I am sticking with my early calls even though Vassar looked hapless at times blowing an unbeaten streak in opening games that lasted more than a decade, while RIT potted 4 against Brockport.  West Conn dominated even at a man down and deserve props.  The most awe-inspiring LL soccer performance of the day belonged to William Smith who dropped a dime on Oneonta from 39 shots.  Incredible.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 04, 2021, 12:47:51 PM
Saint--if you are watching the game you must be dying.  Buffalo State gifts a goal to SLU on a pass back to the keeper and then SLU gives up an own goal on an easy pass back to its keeper. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 04, 2021, 02:45:24 PM
The yearly injury bug already affecting SLU.  Best player is in a walking boot.   Good to win that game but Buff State played down a man most of the 2nd half.   First half it was the typical pass back to the keeper BS that has stunted the team and resulted in an own goal, but 2nd half they eschewed that strategy for possession going forward.  Not really a revolutionary concept.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 05, 2021, 05:03:31 AM
Big wins for SLU and WCONN...RPI striker is the real deal...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 05, 2021, 07:04:36 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 04, 2021, 12:47:51 PM
Saint--if you are watching the game you must be dying.  Buffalo State gifts a goal to SLU on a pass back to the keeper and then SLU gives up an own goal on an easy pass back to its keeper.
Saw the highlight. SLU actually scored 4 Goals.

The worst own goal I have ever seen.
Someone is telling these boys they need to play the ball in the back and use the goalie alot. It wont work.Hasnt worked ina  few seasons. Cost us ncaa games recently, cost us getting to the league tourney recently... Yet miraculously.  First game of the year, the center back nonchalantly passes the ball in the goal expecting the goalie to be there when there was NO reason to do so.

Y are you passing to the goalie from the top of the box, with a defender closing??? What bad thing can possibly happen.

Soccer is a simple game. Not hard to understand, with simple phrases. "Possess and Penetrate' the teams motto seems to have been replaced with "make sure goalie has more touches than striker"

Happy for the win. Proud of the boys, but does not look like style of play is changing this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 05, 2021, 09:59:02 PM
Decent day for the LL with a 5-2 Sunday.  Hobart looking pretty good thus far. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 08, 2021, 09:04:06 PM
A bit shocked by the RPI-Williams result, but such is the life of having a target on your back while facing a team with few expectations.  Just because Williams had some adversity doesn't mean they're still not a powerhouse.   

Not too upset with SLU's performance against Canton.   Team has some injuries but are scrapping their way to some wins.  A lot more possession going forward tonight which is nice to see.  Canton parked a dump truck in the first half and I thought I saw their backs get a little winded towards the end of the 1st.  Sure enough, early in the 2nd half SLU caught them flat footed on a nice head on flick for a breakaway for the game winner.

Big test this weekend in Oneonta.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 11, 2021, 04:36:31 PM
It is unbelievable how bad SLU's first touch is against Hartwick right now.   This would be a really bad loss.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 11, 2021, 05:56:57 PM
A well deserved loss for SLU at Hartwick.  Outclassed in every facet of the game.  No sense of urgency the entire game and terrible first touches resulting in Hartwick regaining possession the whole match.   Did not even come close to threatening the 2nd half.  Injuries are no excuse for this performance.  Oneonta is going to destroy them tomorrow if this is repeated.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 11, 2021, 06:18:47 PM
Overall a very mediocre day for the Liberty League.  Hobart loses to a going in sub-500 Geneseo squad.  Ithaca ties a sub-500 Fisher team.  Clarkson gets beat up by an Oneonta team excited to play SLU tomorrow and SLU as noted doesn't show up against Hartwick.    On the bright side, Skidmore and RIT remain undefeated, the real RPI finally shows up at home, and Vassar breaks an 11 game losing streak to Stevens motivated by the announcement of the retirement of their long time coach.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 11, 2021, 06:22:03 PM
RPI is definitely the cream of the crop.   Hobart has had some close games but I thought they looked really strong.  Geneseo result is surprising.   RIT is getting wins and their schedule isn't even that soft, could be the dark horse this season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 11, 2021, 07:08:53 PM
Had no idea deutschfan......Strange time to announce it but congrats go out to him for such a successful career and maybe he can get one more NCAA run.

https://www.vassarathletics.com/news/2021/9/10/general-andy-jennings-announces-retirement-as-vassar-head-mens-soccer-coach.aspx

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 11, 2021, 07:33:23 PM
Mr. Right--sooo glad you made your way back to our board.  I was thinking the same thing about the timing.  Vassar like many schools looks to ED to lock in the newcomers for the next season.  From a recruiting standpoint unless a long time assistant is taking over the reins I would think that a September announcement would be a definite damper on at least that season's recruiting.  Of course if Vassar makes a run to the NCAAs to give Coach Jennings a great going away present that would certainly help recruiting.  On a slightly different subject, as a NESCAC/Williams alum is Williams 3 goals better than RPI who on paper seems to be the top team in the LL this year?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 11, 2021, 07:39:55 PM
Also, what happened to Coach Guinn at Union?  After 24 years, a new interim in the 3rd game.  Maybe he decided if his team couldn't score 10 against Anne Marie it was time to call it a day.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 12, 2021, 03:51:50 PM
A great start by SLU against Oneonta gets squandered by yet another poor decision to play the ball backwards which leads to an Oneonta equalizer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 12, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
I am going to be the glass half full here with regard to SLU.  They played much better against a much better team than yesterday.  Granted the first goal they gave up was a defensive giveaway and the second a stupid defensive foul right outside the box leading to a set play score.  I thought the ODU transfer showed some skill and if they can start getting more goals from the forward players, and stop playing keep away in the back, they should be in every LL game.  This week demonstrated that there is a lot of parity in the LL this year and SLU has as much chance being in it at the end as anyone.  That being said, and given the parity, the Hartwick loss really took them out of NCAA at large contention as I suspect they will have at least 3 league losses if they are not champions.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 14, 2021, 06:16:46 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 11, 2021, 07:33:23 PM
Mr. Right--sooo glad you made your way back to our board.  I was thinking the same thing about the timing.  Vassar like many schools looks to ED to lock in the newcomers for the next season.  From a recruiting standpoint unless a long time assistant is taking over the reins I would think that a September announcement would be a definite damper on at least that season's recruiting.  Of course if Vassar makes a run to the NCAAs to give Coach Jennings a great going away present that would certainly help recruiting.  On a slightly different subject, as a NESCAC/Williams alum is Williams 3 goals better than RPI who on paper seems to be the top team in the LL this year?

RPI followed it up with a 5-1 shellacking of Plattsburgh so I think in particular this season we are going to see some wild games and wild results that will leave us scratching our heads.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 14, 2021, 06:18:27 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 11, 2021, 07:39:55 PM
Also, what happened to Coach Guinn at Union?  After 24 years, a new interim in the 3rd game.  Maybe he decided if his team couldn't score 10 against Anne Marie it was time to call it a day.


Yes but he is still on the roster so I do not think he left the program. Another odd set of events but maybe he needed personal time but had he been let go I think they would have stripped him of his title?? I don't know either
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2021, 09:23:20 PM
Liberty League looks like it's going to be a wild ride this season.   Vassar shutting out New Paltz who have started strong and then Hobart losing again, this time to Cortland.  Hobart looked extremely dangerous the first 3 games  I watched them play.  Cortland was down the last season they played but look to be right back to their old ways.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 16, 2021, 01:05:06 PM
After an ignominious start, Vassar looks like it will make Coach Jennings final season a memorable one.  Given Brandeis' travails, arguably the only truly quality win the LL has had non-conference is Vassar's 2-0 result against Stevens.  New Paltz, although regionally ranked, did not look imposing at Gordon yesterday, and much of its reputation may have been the result of a 3-0 drubbing of Union which is a program in seeming disarray.  RPI's tie with Oneonta is also a quality result but alas it was a tie, and the jury is out on Plattsburgh.  We will know more this weekend when Vassar visits Plattsburgh, and Coach Jennings and Coach Taylor reunite.  But for the fact that Coach Taylor played at Plattsburgh, making it unlikely he would leave, he would have been a top tier candidate for the Vassar Head Coach position.  Ithaca is circling the drain due to an inability to score (previously predicted) and much of Hobart's talent is young leading to wildly varying results.  I still think Hobart will be challenging RPI at the end unless Vassar decides to win one for the Gipper.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 18, 2021, 12:28:25 PM
Love replying to myself. Some great games today—a day where NCAA at large dreams are made or broken for Hobart, Ithaca, RIT and Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 18, 2021, 03:02:40 PM
Tough losses for RIT and Ithaca.  RIT is definitely not a fluke, they are quality.   Vassar up 1 at the half against a very enigmatic Plattsburgh squad.  SLU is an entirely different team with Sibanda back in the lineup.  Just glancing at the scoreline you would not think so but today's win against Potsdam was an immense improvement over last weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 18, 2021, 04:56:28 PM
Enigmatic is the perfect word for Plattsburg and today they were on the wrong side of the spectrum.  Ithaca was dominating Cortland.  After a ranked start to the year they are now automatic bid or done.  You are right about RIT.  They have had some tough results.  SLU's leading scorer is a defender.   If they are going to make an impact that has got to change.  Vassar is doing it with defense and every game has a new offensive hero.  That makes for great team chemistry.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 18, 2021, 06:30:03 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on September 18, 2021, 04:56:28 PM
Enigmatic is the perfect word for Plattsburg and today they were on the wrong side of the spectrum.  Ithaca was dominating Cortland.  After a ranked start to the year they are now automatic bid or done.  You are right about RIT.  They have had some tough results.  SLU's leading scorer is a defender.   If they are going to make an impact that has got to change.  Vassar is doing it with defense and every game has a new offensive hero.  That makes for great team chemistry.

Reynolds is still listed as a defender but he plays at the 9.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 18, 2021, 09:31:43 PM
He was a defender in high school and in college until this year.  He is doing a nice job at the 9 but experientially he is still a defender.  Hobart lays an egg at Rochester.  Rochester scores 6 goals on 6 shots on goal.  Cross another LL team off the potential at large bid list. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on September 19, 2021, 07:02:59 PM
Skidmore (Horsenal? Tottenham Horsespur? Horseton Villa?) beats #8 WPI on the road, 1-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 21, 2021, 07:39:56 PM
Just back from the SLU-Cortland game.  I suppose I should be disappointed, but it's hard to be after that match which was quite entertaining.   Cortland is clearly a quality squad.  I was quite impressed with #7 who caused havoc down the left flank and #6 who was as rock steady a CB as I've seen in recent years.   SLU was just snake bit all game.  Hit the cross bar in the first 30 seconds and whiffed on the follow through.    Cortland took over for the remainder of the first half but did not threaten much outside of 1 shot where SLU's keeper had to make a decent save.   Things opened up a bit the 2nd half where Cortland threatened but never really got a quality shot on goal.    Overtime was a much different story.   I'm not sure if the road trip affected Cortland or SLU is in much better shape as SLU looked much more fit in OT and had the Cortland midfielders pretty gassed.  Reynolds hit the post and then Sibanda hit the cross bar which was a bad omen as Cortland nabbed the game winner off a corner in the 2nd overtime.   

An entertaining match for sure.  Cortland was quality but SLU also got rather unlucky.  Plenty positives to take away from that one.   

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 22, 2021, 09:40:02 AM
Saw the highlights of the game and your right it looks like it was an entertaining up and down game where fitness and luck wins out. D3 soccer at its best especially on a 120 x 80. How could you not want to play futbol on a field like that? I will say SLU was very unlucky but I love how they are not afraid of showing the opponents winning goal on their highlights. Looking at the final play of the game it just looked like Cortland wanted the ball more on that corner. In the 105th minute fitness does matter because I saw a ton of ball watching by SLU players on the corner and they were man to man. Sometimes that can happen because of fatigue. Solid fitness=A ready to react mentality all game. Mind control can be a numbing experience.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 22, 2021, 10:30:46 AM
Saints get a breather against Union who just tied MCLA. Huge week for RIT with Hobart today and Vassar Saturday. Hobart has to figure out how to rebound from a 6-0 drubbing by UR. RIT played UR close but they can't take the defending champs for granted. Vassar game has huge regional implications. Vassar will want to avenge RIT's knocking them out in the first round of the last LL tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 22, 2021, 06:45:25 PM
A pretty even game between Hobart and RIT.  Overall Hobart might have been a bit better, but a result for RIT given the OT red card.   Skidmore loses to Ramapo who I don't know enough about, but for all the hype Skidmore has been getting that result should be disappointing.    Vassar gets a 1-0 result to keep up their winning ways. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 25, 2021, 05:44:21 PM
Skidmore coming back down to earth after dropping a home contest to Hobart.

RPI takes care of business late.

RIT seems to be legit, no easy feat beating Vassar who are still a strong squad.

SLU gets a 3-2 win with what is now a typical late game winner.  I thought they were unlucky to give up the equalizer off of what I felt was a weak PK call.    Sibanda making up for the crossbar misses against Cortland by earning a brace.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 25, 2021, 06:40:12 PM
SLU's breather wasn't a breather and Bard shows it is ready to leave the cellar against the overall favorite.  Vassar proves it is a much better home team than road team and Hobart has a nice recovery week after the UR shellacking.  Still have RPI and Hobart 1-2 at the end of the regular season.  RIT gaining the tie-breaker against Vassar may now be the potential 3 spot.  Most disappointing team of the season for me so far is Clarkson. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 29, 2021, 11:20:10 AM
Game of the day--SLU v. RPI.  SLU trying to gain some credibility and momentum.  RPI trying to preserve an at large-bid.  Matchups include the two most dangerous offensive players in the league.  Should be fun to watch. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 29, 2021, 11:56:34 AM
Great to see a tradition of African Saints continue.
An argument can be made that over a generation of Great Saints have hailed  from the motherland and have done the league and their school proud.

King Britto
King Annan
King Diop
King Dede
King Sibanda

The beat goes on and the tradition continues... in one sense atleast.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 29, 2021, 03:54:48 PM
Having a brace against arguably the weakest team in the league after missing a ton of opportunities the game before does not qualify Sibanda quite yet for coronation or Sainthood so to speak.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 29, 2021, 06:00:09 PM
Meanwhile, Hobart losing again this time to Ithaca.   Very strange league thus far. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 29, 2021, 06:01:10 PM
Just thinking of this November 2019 post I made after RPI made their dominant run in NCAAs

Quote from: Saint of Old on November 26, 2019, 12:42:04 PM
In Praise of RPI.

I am absolutely proud of the way this team represented theLL.
I think the season was a huge success and something the program will build on.
As an Old Saint, I can recall losing a Quater Final Game the team thought it should have won to a former champion from the NESCAC.

That type of thing can inspire a Very young team playing good football for a very good Coach.

Saying all of the above should have Saint fans and the rest of the league really worried because I see the foundation for great success being laid right now at RPI.

Teams will have big problems with them next season after the confidence and hunger they will have going forward.
The most important thing for a player or team is confidence followed closely by hunger.
RPI has more of that than they ever have as a program and now the future is extremely bright with a coach that wont allow them to rest on what they have done, but keep pushing towards the pinnacle.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 29, 2021, 06:34:36 PM
Three 1-0 games.  It is that time of year again. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 29, 2021, 07:12:59 PM
Toshack now has the honors of losing to RPI twice in a row at home for the first time since 1971.  Durocher lost a total of 5 games to RPI in his entire career.  Toshack has lost 4 in 6 years.   Shows that RPI has now solidified themselves as the top Liberty League team while at the same time exemplifying the decline of SLU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 30, 2021, 12:22:09 AM
Toshack has also lost to Vassar and Hobart 4 times in the past 6 games.  SLU, Hobart, Vassar and RPI have dominated the LL's NCAA appearances over the past decade.  For SLU to be impactful these are the current perennial powerhouses SLU needs to beat. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 02, 2021, 04:22:47 PM
I chose to remain optimistic if not delusional about this SLU season but that's over.  When every single player's first instinct with their first touch is to go backwards then that means this team has been coached to ignore the things that made the program successful in the past.   I'm afraid this is the program's foundation going forward barring a drastic overnight change.  The signs were there when the usual recruiting pipeline began to be eschewed. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 02, 2021, 06:33:57 PM
I feel your pain. I have seen a lot of SLU soccer matches over the years. I have never seen them dominated like Ithaca dominated them in the 2nd half of today's game—and Ithaca is not a great team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 02, 2021, 07:51:39 PM
Only threatened maybe once.  That was the complete opposite of what I saw against Cortland.  Again, every player's first touch instinct is to go backwards.   Made worse by the rambunctious crowd, nothing more annoying that playing into a crowd's hands like that.  Used to be the complete opposite.    Not like it matters much.  RPI, RIT and Vassar are the cream of the crop this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 06, 2021, 06:50:28 PM
Is Clarkson's athletics website not loading for everyone else?   Trying to stream the game obviously but the site isn't working.  I don't know if it's just on my end or affecting everyone else.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 06, 2021, 06:54:33 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 06, 2021, 06:50:28 PM
Is Clarkson's athletics website not loading for everyone else?   Trying to stream the game obviously but the site isn't working.  I don't know if it's just on my end or affecting everyone else.

not just you, me neither
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 06, 2021, 10:28:49 PM
In the only LL action on the night SLU halts their skid with a 3-0 win at Clarkson.   Decently even game but Clarkson did not get many good shots on net.   SLU's first touch was miles better than it has been recently as it was responsible for all 3 goals. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 08, 2021, 06:43:10 AM
LL Standings going into Columbus Day wknd-----Next Weekend is the big back to back weekend of the season.

RPI           3-0        7-1-2
Ithaca       3-0        5-4-3   
RIT           2-0-1     7-2-2   
Hobart      2-1-1     5-4-1   
Vassar      2-1         8-2-0   
St. Law     2-2        6-5-0
Skidmore   1-2        6-4-0   
Union        0-3        4-4-1   
Bard         0-3        4-5-0    
Clarkson   0-3        2-6-2   



Friday, October 8, 2021 Men's Soccer

Union at RPI

Saturday, October 9, 2021 Men's Soccer

Skidmore at Vassar
Hobart at Clarkson
Bard at Ithaca
RIT at St.Lawrence
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 08, 2021, 07:50:58 PM
RPI has now won 3 straight league games by scoring in the last 10 minutes.  Either a testament to their fitness and skill or a stat that is due for regression.  So far it seems the former.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 09, 2021, 08:53:37 AM
Two biggest games today are Vassar v. Skidmore and SLU v. RIT.  Both Vassar and SLU have followed the same pattern so far in league, they have lost to teams with winning records and beaten teams with no wins.  For Vassar to maintain a legitimate shot at an at large they have to avoid stumbling against the Skidmores and Clarksons of the league, and pick up at least two wins against RPI, Ithaca, Hobart, and SLU.  SLU has no chance at an at large and the goal for its season is to make the playoffs, renew its streak of winning seasons, and have a miracle playoff run.  RPI is clearly not dominating teams scorewise which makes one wonder whether, like in 2019, they are ripe for a playoff upset. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 09, 2021, 03:52:30 PM
Quite the shocker in Potsdam as Clarkson blitzes Hobart 3-0.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 09, 2021, 04:02:15 PM
Hobart's evil twin that was trounced by Rochester shows up again. Not a good day so far for top of the table. Vassar goalie gifts Skidmore the equalizer going into 2nd half and SLU thoroughly dominating RIT. Will see if it holds.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 09, 2021, 04:22:51 PM
SLU-RIT getting chippy with a bunch of yellows coming from a SLU equalizer off a PK.   RIT is probably justified in being upset but SLU had literally the same exact call go against them earlier in the year against Union.  I wonder if it's a point of emphasis thing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 09, 2021, 06:02:44 PM
Perhaps Ithaca had bad luck at the start of the season?   Vassar probably disappointed with a draw at home to Skidmore.  Still can't believe the Clarkson result.   SLU went from domination in the first half to imploding in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half but escaped with a draw.  Ostensibly the toughest part of their schedule is finished and like deutschfan said they have to hope to claw up the standings a bit and hope to make a run.   Could be some late season chaos in the league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 10, 2021, 08:54:42 AM
Vassar has to be disappointed.  But for pk miss and horrible goalie mistake it should have been 2-0. Hardest part of their schedule still to come.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 13, 2021, 09:09:01 PM
Big back to back weekend with the top 3 games being RPI v. RIT, RPI v. Hobart, and Vassar v. SLU.  Picking Hobart and SLU in upsets because SLU and Hobart get to cruise by winless teams in the Friday game while RPI and Vassar have potential dogfights in their Friday tilts, especially RPI.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 14, 2021, 07:33:55 AM
Great point!
I think that RPI will pull it off because Clinton is probably planning for this and will have the boys ready for the toughest battle of the year in all likelyhood.
SLU has a 50/50 shot simply because they have the best player in the league King Sibanda.

I try to be as objective as  I can here about the Canton boys,  but this guy plays the game with a class not normally seen in any soccer player.
He's a Maestro but also clinical.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 14, 2021, 11:38:01 PM
SLU is clearly a step behind the usual level of talent this season, but they still have not played a game yet with the full lineup available.   I don't know if it would have made a difference but one has to wonder.   SLU at Bard as also never been a gimme, could be a dangerous trap game. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 15, 2021, 07:26:01 AM
I say it every year and it seems it might be true this season... Bard will sink a ship or 2.
I recall a Saint team of assassins' including Provost/Copeland and company almost dropped points to a good Bard team.

Big weekend for everyone though.
RPI still has a shot at an at-large which is a big deal and everyone else fighting for top 6.

The COMPETETION.

This is what we missed last season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on October 15, 2021, 08:01:29 AM
Don't sleep on 4-0 Ithaca.  With the exception of the recent pounding of Bard and 2-0 win against SLU, every game this season has been a 1 goal affair. They're battle tested, have won 4 straight, and have two winnable games this weekend at Skidmore and Union.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 15, 2021, 05:59:45 PM
deutschfan with the extremely prescient prediction.  Hobart cruises, RPI loses. Vassar barely escapes Clarkson.  Bard played a scrappy 2nd half against SLU but Tosh rested a lot of guys in the 2nd half.  Skidmore currently putting up a good fight against Ithaca.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 15, 2021, 06:15:07 PM
Late Vassar goal against run of play as Clarkson misses a couple of 1v1s with the goalie in the second half.  An 0-2 home weekend would put a serious dent in RPI's at large aspirations as RIT will likely jump them in the next regional rankings.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 16, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
SLU centerback and senior captain whiffs a clearance off of his hand for a PK to put SLU down at half 🤦‍♂️
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 16, 2021, 02:41:56 PM
Lifeless performance by SLU against Vassar.  Hobart playing even with RPI and so far Skidmore has the major upset bid going.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 16, 2021, 05:50:05 PM
So much for prescience. I thought SLU would at least show up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 19, 2021, 09:04:57 PM
RPI with a prime opportunity to get some pool C cushion with a win against Montclair St but they drop the home contest 1-0.  Even game, however.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 23, 2021, 07:06:04 PM
Deleted a previous post as I mistakenly believed the playoff field was set.  Did not realize that many teams have 2 games remaining and not 1.   There is potential for maximum chaos in the next week. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerfan111 on October 24, 2021, 09:02:48 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 16, 2021, 05:50:05 PM
So much for prescience. I thought SLU would at least show up.

Been watching SLU for awhile and it's disappointing seeing the level of this program continue to drop each year. Current regime better figure out how and where to recruit or this program will be a mediocre Liberty League team, year in and year out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 24, 2021, 11:38:31 PM
Quote from: soccerfan111 on October 24, 2021, 09:02:48 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 16, 2021, 05:50:05 PM
So much for prescience. I thought SLU would at least show up.

Been watching SLU for awhile and it's disappointing seeing the level of this program continue to drop each year. Current regime better figure out how and where to recruit or this program will be a mediocre Liberty League team, year in and year out.


For some reason the current staff has eschewed the usual recruiting pipeline.   NYC, San Diego, Colorado/AZ, Caribbean, Toronto and players from West Africa have always been the soul of great SLU teams.   One big CB has been a key to success as well.    Go through any team of Durocher's and you'll find plenty of players that match the aforementioned profile.  Toshack has the connections but thus far has completely ignored the aspects the gave SLU its reputation.  You would think Toshack would want to continue that pipeline considering the last NYC based player that Toshack coached was a 1st team All American and 2 time LL player of the year.   It shows you just how well oiled a machine Durocher had running when he was at the helm.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2021, 09:44:55 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on July 31, 2021, 06:51:04 AM
Brother Saint.
You prove that the best thing about college soccer and this site is indeed the fans. The guys who will support the team no matter what.

I will always support the team, but also have to acknowledge that the last losing season SLU had before last year was 1992.

I feel old saying this but 1992  was almost 30 years 3 decades ago. The team won a Chip, but 30 years of not just winning football but good football.

It all starts with good football. There are those who think only results matter and that is true to a point, but people remember the Dutch team of 74 and the Brazil team of 82 not because they won but the football was always pristine.
The football must be good first and foremost before any thought of winning can be had.

SLU soccer is made from two things that work hand in hand Aggression and Skill.  Sounds simple but hard to pull off.

Wishing the boys the best this season as always.
I wrote the above of July of this season, before a single pre-season ball was kicked... could have been a couple seasons ago...
I figured I would just repost instead of chiming in.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SaintsgoMarching on October 25, 2021, 11:13:47 AM
Toshak has driven the program into mediocrity because of his arrogance. He thinks he can do it better.  He has burned bridges with key alumni who used to lovingly recommend players and help recruit players. The California, Colorado, Arizona kids came from key alumni who were coaches in those areas. Tosh has burned the bridge with those guys and they don't have any interest in helping. The Caribbean and West African connection came from guys in NYC and New England with ties to Martin Luther King high school and other pipelines. Toshack has burned that bridge as well. So what's left for him - average and soft New England boarding school kids who are mediocre at best and lack the real desire and passion that has been a hallmark of the program for nearly three decades. It is truly sad to see the state of this once great program. And as a former player I can hardly even stomach watching games any more... There is nothing special about SLU soccer anymore and I don't think under the current coach they will every rise to national prominence. And to think, Duroucher could have hired Brendan Murphy. And if he had hired Murph - SLU would be a perennial power for years to come.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 25, 2021, 01:27:39 PM
The thing that puzzles me about the SLU situation is that the downward trend has happened with AD Durocher at the helm as Coach Toshack's boss.  So presumably everything that has transpired has been with Durocher's approval and blessing.  I can see taking a "hands off" approach with one's former program, but this seems like even more than that given the program's former prominence.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2021, 03:12:44 PM
 I have no doubt Durocher has operated under a hands off approach when it comes to the program, as a micromanagement environment is not conducive for anyone.  But something has to give at some point.   It's not a surprise that the players who aren't originally from New England like Sibanda and Reynolds are the players who have carried the team.  But a team is still only as good as the summation of its total parts, and as SaintsGoMarching has pointed out the rest of the team is mostly made up of NEPSAC/NEPSA players.  There are plenty of good players from that league, and Durocher was able to nab the best of the best from that group (DeMello, Copeland etc) but now they're getting scooped up elsewhere.    I'll always be a SLU homer and will watch every game possible but it's pretty depressing seeing the product now compared to just a short while ago.  Sandy used to strike fear in every opponent, and now they are giving up goals on Sandy at will.    Who knows, maybe the ship gets righted but thus far I have not seen any indication that the approach will change for the better.   I doubt Toshack gets the boot, but one has to wonder if someone else could get things back to where they were.   All time Saint great Andrew Bednarsky is currently an assistant at Navy (current Patriot League contenders) following a very successful stint at Hobart, and there are multiple other Durocher acolytes still involved with the game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 25, 2021, 04:49:23 PM
These three games will decide the top two seeds with byes going into the LL tournament:  Ithaca v. RIT, RPI v. Vassar, Ithaca v. Vassar.  Hobart v. SLU is inconsequential to the question of who will be 1-2 at the end of the regular season but the game does pit the two most inconsistent teams in the LL, and the loser of that game could easily be jumped by Skidmore who finishes with Bard and Clarkson.  In that case either the former LL champ Hobart will miss the cut, or SLU will miss the six team tournament for the second year in a row--either scenario is mind boggling.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 26, 2021, 08:53:59 AM
The Saints still have a great shot because they have the best player in the league.

I think that all other things being equal (which I'm not quite sure it is) the mentality of elite players will be the difference maker.

We will see how it shakes out.

My favorite SLU season was back in 05' when we were counted out and ended up somehow making the dance and even sunk a yellow submarine en route to a nice run.

Different time period/team I know, but the possibility is always there with some talented players on the roster.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 26, 2021, 03:41:59 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 26, 2021, 08:53:59 AM
The Saints still have a great shot because they have the best player in the league.

I think that all other things being equal (which I'm not quite sure it is) the mentality of elite players will be the difference maker.

We will see how it shakes out.

My favorite SLU season was back in 05' when we were counted out and ended up somehow making the dance and even sunk a yellow submarine en route to a nice run.

Different time period/team I know, but the possibility is always there with some talented players on the roster.

'08 had similar vibes.   

Some LL action tonight with RIT and Ithaca playing for seedings. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 27, 2021, 06:25:52 PM
SLU clinches a LL playoff spot with tonight's 0-0 result between Clarkson and Skidmore.    Hobart is in with a win or draw, Skidmore is in with a win and Hobart loss. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 27, 2021, 06:50:42 PM
NCAA Regional Rankings are out and put Vassar ahead of RPI.  RPI has stronger strength of schedule but has no wins against ranked opponents.  If Vassar prevails tonight RPI could be nudged out of a Pool C.  Vassar has been much stronger at home than on the road while RPI has lost two of its last 3 at home.  Vassar's D has been nails and RPI has a much more prolific offense.  Tossup. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 27, 2021, 09:36:51 PM
Vassar is officially a team of destiny.  In the last 4 games it has been outplayed in three of them and yet has a 3-0-1 record in those 4 games.  Coach Jennings retirement year is a victory parade as Vassar puts a serious dent in RPI's Pool C chances.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 27, 2021, 09:51:35 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 08, 2021, 07:50:58 PM
RPI has now won 3 straight league games by scoring in the last 10 minutes.  Either a testament to their fitness and skill or a stat that is due for regression.  So far it seems the former.

And now it seems like we're seeing some mean regression.   They're now dropping one goal contests instead of winning them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 27, 2021, 10:51:48 PM
Even though RPI is going to win the league again they are not the team they were in 2019 despite returning the vast majority of their skill players including ones who stayed a 5th year.  Josh Gaudiano is no longer a secret and more than half of his goals have come in non-conference blowouts.  Trevor Bisson was an offensive force as a defender his first three years including 6 goals in 2019.  He has one this year.  Home field throughout the playoffs doesn't mean much if you are losing at home. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 27, 2021, 11:14:46 PM
Hard to play with a target on your back. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 30, 2021, 10:02:18 AM
Last day of regular season.  Still some interesting questions. Will Hobart make the tournamen?  Can Clarkson redeem an otherwise disappointing season by obtaining a result against RPI in its last game?Can Bard who has played teams close pull out a win?  Who prevails in a game to decide one of the two top spots—Vassar v. Ithaca?  Vassar pretty much assured itself a Pool C bid by beating RPI.  Admirable turnaround after season opening loss to West Conn that now seems forever ago. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SaintsgoMarching on October 30, 2021, 03:36:02 PM
Wow what a goal from Sibanda... Glad I tuned in to see the magic.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SaintsgoMarching on October 30, 2021, 03:38:17 PM
Mogul is a baller too...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 30, 2021, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 29, 2021, 11:56:34 AM
Great to see a tradition of African Saints continue.
An argument can be made that over a generation of Great Saints have hailed  from the motherland and have done the league and their school proud.

King Britto
King Annan
King Diop
King Dede
King Sibanda

The beat goes on and the tradition continues... in one sense atleast.

Sibanda is class man, I knew it the first 10 seconds I saw him play... will be a great Saint like his African Brothers before him.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 30, 2021, 04:12:45 PM
RPI clinches the regular season.  Vassar with a disappointing result against Ithaca resulting in Ithaca getting the first round bye.  As it stands Hobart is in the final spot but a SLU win knocks them out and puts Skidmore in.   

Despite a comical sequence of events resulting in a Hobart goal SLU turned it on and have had the better part of this game so far.  As mentioned, Sibanda playing like the machine he is.  That puts him at the top of the goal scoring table in the league despite having played 4 fewer games than the next highest goal scorer. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 30, 2021, 04:21:39 PM
Quote from: SaintsgoMarching on October 30, 2021, 03:38:17 PM
Mogul is a baller too...
The #7 Tradition continues.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 30, 2021, 05:01:29 PM
I am slightly entertained by the Hobart play-by-play guy managing to pronounce "Zoccolaro" a different way every time he says it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SaintsgoMarching on October 30, 2021, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 30, 2021, 04:21:39 PM
Quote from: SaintsgoMarching on October 30, 2021, 03:38:17 PM
Mogul is a baller too...
The #7 Tradition continues.

He's like a cross between Nick Mangee and the OG #7 Howard Beckford aka Mani T.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 30, 2021, 05:27:21 PM
Just a note on the Statesmen today.
I saw guys who gave it their absolute all today and left it on the field.
A well coached group who played hard.

We saw a few guys on the ground at the end of the game crying and just exhausted, sad, tired, angry after 4 years of blood sweat and tears. Those seniors should really be feeling pride.

Many of us have been there with you and know how it feels, but eventually the good memories will be there.

Over the past 4years these boys have put Hobart on the regional map with Bigtime National wins and Post season runs thrown in there.
The league dance will be a bit less entertaining without these boys from Geneva, but for the boys who will be back, remember this pain and us it for fuel going forward.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 30, 2021, 05:30:19 PM
So the two teams from the 2019 LL final don't make the tournament. SLU gets a redux at Gordon and has to hope that they show this time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SaintsgoMarching on October 30, 2021, 05:37:35 PM
Unlucky for Hobart who did well to equalize in the second half to force overtime.

Gamewinner by Sibanda who shows his class in a big moment.

Can't say I'm not happy to see SLU play spoiler and end Hobart's season, but my hat's off to the Statesman as they played very well in long stretches and were the better team in many ways.

SLU will have to be much better if they want to have a chance to make a run in the conference tournament. They run out of ideas and get stuck on one side of the pitch or overplaying the central channel too often. They do not have a #9 who can hold the ball with his back to goal.  Reynolds does his best and is good running at guys, but not as a target. And the other #9 they had up top today is just not quite at the level. Looks to be an athlete but not a footballer and so most attacking movements ended at him anytime an entry pass was played to him back to goal.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 01, 2021, 08:31:34 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 30, 2021, 05:30:19 PM
So the two teams from the 2019 LL final don't make the tournament. SLU gets a redux at Gordon and has to hope that they show this time.
Wow man, this is a great point. I forgot that Clarkson made the final last season (2019).
Goes to show that when you get a chance to take the chip you have to grab it with both feet!

RIT Skidmore should be a very good game going to the hungrier team.
Both teams should be confident going in.

We are now in post-season play and confidence is the currency on which performance is traded.

SLU v. Vassar
SLU could be road warriors, but then again they did give up an early goal against Hobart with an UNNECCESARY BACK PASS TO THE GOALIE YET AGAIN!!!!!
Vassar has been the better team this season, and have the added incentive of sending off an all-time great coach into the sunset with one last Dance.

All things being equal (which they are not Vassar has the edge) the best player on the field will step up to the plate and SLU's Craque should have them edge this one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 01, 2021, 08:58:38 PM
Saint—excellent thoughts. I picked SLU the last time due to the Bard advantage and SLU disappointed sleepwalking the second game of the weekend. The "best" player in the league wasn't even the best player on his team that day. That honor went to a freshman which bodes well for SLU's future. Vassar has not dominated a game since the last time they played SLU. I am loathe to pick SLU again—once burned twice wary. I am going with RIT. Skidmore backed in and should have taken care of business against Clarkson. While RPI deserved its number 1 seeding it is a shame that the semis and finals will be played once again on a lackluster turf pitch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: NoSuchThingAsOffsides on November 02, 2021, 09:38:33 AM
Guinn is out at Union - https://unionathletics.com/news/2021/10/29/guinn-moves-on-from-mens-soccer-coaching-position.aspx

Looks like it was announced the day before the final game vs RIT... does anyone know if he was actually removed before that game or may the story was just not scheduled to drop correctly?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 02, 2021, 12:28:37 PM
He hasn't coached this season.  Seems like a late formal announcement.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 02, 2021, 12:49:46 PM
The article alludes to this fact:

QuoteIn his final season of competition in 2019, Guinn guided Union to one of the best starts in program history, as the Dutchmen won their first eight games to match his 2007 squad for the most consecutive victories to start a season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deiscanton on November 02, 2021, 01:23:08 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 02, 2021, 12:49:46 PM
The article alludes to this fact:

QuoteIn his final season of competition in 2019, Guinn guided Union to one of the best starts in program history, as the Dutchmen won their first eight games to match his 2007 squad for the most consecutive victories to start a season.

Andrew Knight (Union class of 2013), who has served as an assistant under Guinn, coached Union this season as the interim head coach.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: NoSuchThingAsOffsides on November 02, 2021, 02:17:44 PM
I guess that is what happens when I'm not able to pay much attention throughout the year and try to catch up quick towards the end... I saw the note about 2019 but with the odd timing of the article wasn't sure what to think of it. Must have been on a leave of absence for the year and then made it official?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 02, 2021, 04:37:03 PM
SLU picked a great time to play their best game of the year.  Vassar barely got any good chances, with the best being a garbage time PK that was saved.   Sibanda rose to the occasion as did the seniors on the back line.   The only blemish on the day was Da'Vaughn Anderson picking up his 5th yellow at the end of the game which means he'll be out against RPI.  Luckily for the Saints some young wingers have been playing well.

I wonder what this does for Vassar's pool C chances.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 02, 2021, 05:15:21 PM
That is an excellent question.  My guess is they still get in because they are 4-1-1 against ranked teams and a loss to an unranked team seems to have less of an impact on one's stead in the selection committee's mind than a ranked loss, as counter-intuitive as that seems.  However, they have been dominated their last two games at home and would be crawling into the playoffs as a road team probably going against one of the better NESCACS or a Cortland or Montclair State.  Their last strong performance was against SLU who you note really turned it around and was impressive today.  SLU still has to win out to play after this weekend, but if they play like today they have a shot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ConnAlum on November 02, 2021, 05:52:41 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 02, 2021, 05:15:21 PM
That is an excellent question.  My guess is they still get in because they are 4-1-1 against ranked teams and a loss to an unranked team seems to have less of an impact on one's stead in the selection committee's mind than a ranked loss, as counter-intuitive as that seems.  However, they have been dominated their last two games at home and would be crawling into the playoffs as a road team probably going against one of the better NESCACS or a Cortland or Montclair State.  Their last strong performance was against SLU who you note really turned it around and was impressive today.  SLU still has to win out to play after this weekend, but if they play like today they have a shot.

Yeah you're right, that does sound counter-intuitive. Hypothetically if you had a team with the same exact record and same or very similar SoS, but Team A RvR = 2-2 and Team B RvR = 2-0 (but with two other losses v. unranked teams)....would the selection committee favor Team B? Or how would that work
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 02, 2021, 06:02:16 PM
And now Skidmore with the upset.  Tough tests for SLU and Skidmore Saturday but they are 2 teams coming in hot!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 02, 2021, 06:04:48 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 02, 2021, 05:15:21 PM
That is an excellent question.  My guess is they still get in because they are 4-1-1 against ranked teams and a loss to an unranked team seems to have less of an impact on one's stead in the selection committee's mind than a ranked loss, as counter-intuitive as that seems.  However, they have been dominated their last two games at home and would be crawling into the playoffs as a road team probably going against one of the better NESCACS or a Cortland or Montclair State.  Their last strong performance was against SLU who you note really turned it around and was impressive today.  SLU still has to win out to play after this weekend, but if they play like today they have a shot.

I have Vassar at 3-1 on RvR...how did you get to 4-1-1?

11-4-2   SoS probably around .580-.585. 

It is counter-intuitive but I doubt the loss even if ranked would move the needle much.  Although the extra loss does still hurt, as 11-4-2 versus 12-4-2 or 13-4-2 is getting dicey with so many teams having sky-high SoSs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 02, 2021, 10:15:11 PM
Your right.  Some teams have moved in and out.  Assuming RIT stays ranked, RIT is their only ranked loss unless West Conn moves up.  Hobart has dropped out so the tie comes off.  Maybe Ithaca moves up. Their ranked wins are New Paltz; RPI. Manhattanville, and perhaps Stevens.  Judging from the press release after the game the Vassar staff believes their season is over.  If RPI runs the table it is difficult to see another LL team getting a pool C if Vassar doesn't.  Skidmore's and SLU's wins wiped out the teams with the two best Pool C chances. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 03, 2021, 03:23:32 AM
So LL has:

SLU at RPI   11am
Skidmore v Ithaca  1:30pm

Even with Vassar losing 2 games in a row who is going to jump them in the Regional Rankings? Oneonta has been eliminated from the SUNYAC tournament. RIT is out of LL tournament. The only two teams that could jump Vassar are RPI and New Paltz and Vassar beat both teams in the head to head. If I were Vassar I would be rooting against New Paltz and RPI this weekend. I think they sneak in as a Last 4 in / First 4 out team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 05, 2021, 08:37:16 AM
Excellent per usual.  New Paltz loses its semi-final to Oswego who is having quite a run and the post game article says that New Paltz's season is done.  Vassar sits at number 2 in the region.  Even if RPI wins out its wins will be against unranked opponents and it will maintain its abysmal RvR ratio.  If RPI stumbles, its season may be over.  Judging by the lack of quality results in non-conference games overall, the league's national impact declined from 2019 and I don't believe whoever goes to the dance will be staying very long.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LL_Alum on November 05, 2021, 04:43:17 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 05, 2021, 08:37:16 AM
Excellent per usual.  New Paltz loses its semi-final to Oswego who is having quite a run and the post game article says that New Paltz's season is done.  Vassar sits at number 2 in the region.  Even if RPI wins out its wins will be against unranked opponents and it will maintain its abysmal RvR ratio.  If RPI stumbles, its season may be over.  Judging by the lack of quality results in non-conference games overall, the league's national impact declined from 2019 and I don't believe whoever goes to the dance will be staying very long.

I don't know I think that the LL scheduled pretty well, but a number of non-conference opponents who usually perform well had down seasons. UofR, Brandeis, Plattsburg, Oneonta once they fell off the map in the SUNYAC, Williams etc. all had down seasons. I think what will really hurt the league is the bevy of favorites in other conferences who have gone down. I think that's pushed Vassar to the wrong side of the bubble.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 05, 2021, 04:52:39 PM
Vassar Coach really deserves to go out with a dance.
The guy seems to be a class act.

There are no fairytales in football though... Greatest player of all time was escorted off the field by a nurse (and he wasn't hurt)  to end his career.
Platini looking at charges... Again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 06, 2021, 12:13:59 PM
Complete domination by RPI over SLU except on the scoreboard. Maybe SLU can weather the storm.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LL_Alum on November 06, 2021, 12:19:11 PM
Chance that appeared out of nowhere. Just checked and RPI is now in danger of losing 3 straight LL semis after getting a top-2 seed and a first round bye. Should be a fascinating last 35! I will say SLU is not a team I'd like to try and come from behind on. All that possession can get really tiring as you chase the game, and them, around the field.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 06, 2021, 02:01:29 PM
What a win for SLU!  Sometimes all it takes is a little momentum.   RPI pressed pretty hard the last 15 or 20 minutes or so in the 1st half which SLU took advantage of early in the 2nd half when RPI got a little greedy pushing their back line up resulting in the first goal.    Weathered the storm and got some good goalkeeping to seal the upset.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2021, 03:41:28 PM
I can't believe it, SLU does it.  3 conference tournament wins against 3 teams that beat them in the regular season.  Hats off to Coach Toshack.  Many including myself were critical a month ago, but he stuck to his game plan and it paid off.   A truly great run that hopefully continues.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 07, 2021, 03:53:02 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 30, 2021, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 29, 2021, 11:56:34 AM
Great to see a tradition of African Saints continue.
An argument can be made that over a generation of Great Saints have hailed  from the motherland and have done the league and their school proud.

King Britto
King Annan
King Diop
King Dede
King Sibanda
The beat goes on and the tradition continues... in one sense atleast.

Sibanda is class man, I knew it the first 10 seconds I saw him play... will be a great Saint like his African Brothers before him.
Firstly, not quite sure who is now off the all-time SLU starting 11, but someone in the middle (Maybe one of his Brothers named above) has to make way for Marvin Sibanda.

Secondly, great work to Coach Toshack and his coaching staff. One thing done by great coaches is to make an adjustment after getting beat.
I dont think its a coincidence that Coach Toshack out maneuvered every coach that beat him within the last month when he got a chance.

Thirdly, good win. Boys should celebrate and be happy, as should the coaching staff, but we are still St. Lawrence, we should be dancing this time of year. We have to start cleaning up silly mistakes like using the #1 as a #4/10 when not necessary.
The one goal we conceded this weekend is proof that playing Goalie/Quaterback has its downsides.

Since we are here, why not clean up what needs to be and keep this thing going.

Again big props to the boys from Saint Nation with special props to MT and MS!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: midwest on November 07, 2021, 04:36:49 PM
Wow, congrats to SLU, what an amazing conference tournament run! Hope it continues, as SLU has such a great soccer tradition. My kid went through recruiting a few years ago, and played against Dede etc., such a talented group of players. Although my kid did not get an offer from SLU and went elsewhere, I've kept an eye on the program and am happy to see the turn-around in the conference tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2021, 06:35:22 PM
Sibanda's 25 points so far this season is the most by a Saint since all time program great Andrew Bednarsky's 26 points in 2013.  Sibanda also missed the first 5 games of the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldMCGuy on November 07, 2021, 07:48:24 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 30, 2021, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 29, 2021, 11:56:34 AM
Great to see a tradition of African Saints continue.
An argument can be made that over a generation of Great Saints have hailed  from the motherland and have done the league and their school proud.

King Britto
King Annan
King Diop
King Dede
King Sibanda


The beat goes on and the tradition continues... in one sense atleast.

Sibanda is class man, I knew it the first 10 seconds I saw him play... will be a great Saint like his African Brothers before him.


With a name like Sibanda he must be from the province of Matabeleland in Zimbabwe.  I was born (long before Sibanda) in Gwanda Zimbabwe and played soccer for Messiah (also long ago).
Congratulations to Mr. Sibanda and the SLU nation.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 07, 2021, 08:15:03 PM
First, major props to St. Lawrence for so many reasons.  The coaching staff lost all of their seniors to the Covid season.  Their D1 transfer was not productive given his pedigree.  They turned a defender, Robert Reynolds, into the leading assist man in the Liberty League.  They went on the road as a 5 seed and swept the then number 2 team in the East Region, the LL regular season champ on their home turf, and the number 2 regular season team in the final.  From their nadir in Poughkeepsie to the zenith at Troy it has been a wild ride and whatever happens in the dance they will be back next year.  My picks for the LL awards (as if anyone cares) which I believe are based on the regular season and that caveat would only affect one of my picks: Player of the Year (and first unanimous first teamer since 2015)--Marvin Sibanda (I know--too easy).  Defensive Player of the Year--This is tough as the goalies were good but I also saw head scratching mistakes from them--RIT's Adam Wuest who contributed 4 goals.  For best FY it is Max Mogul. While he doesn't have the numbers like former best FYs including Jansen, Kelley, Mrlik, and Gaudiano, he was the glue that held the SLU team together in the games I watched.  Finally, for Coaching Staff if the playoffs were considered clearly St. Lawrence deserves the award.  Based on the regular season, and this is not a retirement gift, I would give it to Coach Jennings and his staff.  Vassar may be the only pool C based on its preseason and regular LL season accomplishments with no offensive standouts.  Coach Jennings and his staff got the most out of all of his players.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 08, 2021, 02:02:11 PM
Wow. No at-large bids from the LL
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 08, 2021, 02:11:23 PM
Thought Vassar was in.
Overall, this leaguegets very little respect for how good it really is.

I heard an interview from the SLU Skip and he basically said SLU won because the team  got hot at the right time, but in this league it is tough and anyone can win.

If that is the case then RPI/Vassar should have had atleast a chance.  Seems the league is seen as a one dance league unlike SUNYAC or a certain goldclad school.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on November 08, 2021, 02:21:27 PM
The entire LL should schedule Rochester as an out of conference game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 08, 2021, 02:27:14 PM
Vassar was the league's only hope and despite having an excellent r v r, and a number 2 regional ranking before their last two games, the two home losses at the end doomed them as I'm sure the Committee is looking for end of year signs of life even though all the Pool Cs are being invited after losses except for those where there is no league tournament.  Don't know how Rochester gets in and how they jumped Vassar in the East.  Unlike 2019 where Ithaca and Hobart started with wins over Messiah, the LL teams had very few quality non-conference victories.  It will be interesting when the awards come out.  If they are based on regular season performance, RPI's staff may be chosen, yet they (along with the 2019 finalists Hobart and Clarkson) had a very disappointing year, probably the most disappointing in terms of underperforming.  Unlike SLU, their 5th years came back in force.  On paper they were the league's strongest team by far.  If they win at home against Vassar, or SLU in the semis, they likely get a bid, yet they couldn't finish despite dominating both opponents.  Soccer is cruel that way. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: College Soccer Observer on November 08, 2021, 02:27:59 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 08, 2021, 02:11:23 PM
Thought Vassar was in.
Overall, this leaguegets very little respect for how good it really is.

I heard an interview from the SLU Skip and he basically said SLU won because the team  got hot at the right time, but in this league it is tough and anyone can win.

If that is the case then RPI/Vassar should have had atleast a chance.  Seems the league is seen as a one dance league unlike SUNYAC or a certain goldclad school.
I'm sure RPI, the regular season champ, losing 5-2 to Williams, the 8th place NESCAC team, did not help the league profile.  Also Vassar beat Mt. St. Mary's 2-1, while Middlebury beat the same team 6-0. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d4_Pace on November 08, 2021, 02:55:09 PM
The final regional rankings are up on the NCAA site and it looks like Rochester ended up 2nd in the region with Vassar at number 4.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 08, 2021, 03:12:57 PM
Quote from: Ejay on November 08, 2021, 02:21:27 PM
The entire LL should schedule Rochester as an out of conference game.

SLU has tried to keep UR on the schedule as part of a weekend North Country fixture but they always throw a fit over having to play back to back.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SaintsgoMarching on November 08, 2021, 03:32:34 PM
Hats of to SLU. Great job to win the league.

To be candid I did not expect they had enough quality to pull it off, and I was pleasantly surprised.   For two decades it has been an expectation for SLU to win the league every year and anything less was absolutely unacceptable. So forgive me if I don't congratulate the post man every time he delivers my mail. This is what the program should expect every year. Anything less is unacceptable and a massive failure. Think Tom Cruise in the Last Samurai. 

Unfortunately, and I think soon to be revealed, this SLU team is average at best and those that keep insisting that the Liberty League is a great league are a bit off in my opinion. There is a massive difference between the NESCAC, NJAC, SUNYAC, UAA when compared to the Liberty League. Sibanda is a good player, and Mogul has potential to be something. But aside from that, average all the way around.

If SLU can get past Washington College, which will be no small errand, I expect we will see just how average this team is when they face the hired guns at Montclair State. A multi goal drubbing would not surprise me in the least.

Now, if SLU can pull off a run in the NCAA Tournament, I would be delighted. Don't get me wrong. 

As for the future of SLU soccer, if Toshak wants to separate from the pack and restore SLU as a nationally prominent program, he will need to reinvigorate the pipelines that have brought Division I caliber players from the West Coast, the Caribbean and Africa to sunny Canton, NY.  And for him to do that he will need to attempt to rebuild some of the burned bridges with key alumns around the country who have lost interest in helping the program. He's got his work cut out for him. And if he continues to rely on NE Boarding School kids, we will remain woefully mediocre for years to come.

But as for now, here we go Blue!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 09, 2021, 10:36:09 AM
All-Liberty League, POY, etc.

https://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2021/11/8/liberty-league-reveals-2021-mens-soccer-awards-st-lawrences-sibanda-tabbed-player-of-the-year.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 09, 2021, 11:05:08 AM
RIT rookie looks dangerous, if they get his some help the Tigers can roar for a while in the league.

Good call on player of the year, the man's feet speak for themselves.

Really good to see the RPI boys get rewarded for a great year and good performances.

Could be tough on RPI next season unless they reload after losing so many good pieces of the team.

Coach of the Year definitely deserved. Clinton has always been a class act and good coach.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 09, 2021, 01:59:18 PM
Saint:  I totally agree that Coach Clinton is a marvelous coach and a great human being.  That being said, given what his staff had to work with RPI's year was majorly disappointing and my vote would still be with SLU's or Vassar's staff.  Ithaca has to be bummed by the recognitions.  They finish 2nd in the league and receive no first teamers and one second teamer. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 09, 2021, 09:05:58 PM
I agree with you on  Ithaca.
Their seniors had the heart ache of losing a shootout their freshman year at Sandy, then losing senior year at RPI.
To their credit they had a good dance in  2019 and overall the Bombers have been doing quite well.
Losing a coach but making it to two tourney finals in 3 seasons in a very tough league.
I dont think it would surprise anyone to see them in the mix come next season.

RPI staff really deserves it. I think anyone who can win the LL regular season title is a NCAA team as well.
The problem that RPI had was maybe underestimating SLU, I know Clinton like Jennings respects the Saint program, but after beating them so easily earlier in the season I think  teams were caught a bit off guard over the last 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 09, 2021, 10:06:53 PM
Totally agree that there was a bit of over confidence by Vassar and RPI given their earlier wins.  League ate its own this year when it came to NCAA bids.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 12, 2021, 09:16:40 PM
Calvin shows the Rochester Emperor has no clothes-- 4-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2021, 07:58:23 PM
With Washington College handling Montclair St at Montclair it's safe to say that SLU lost to a quality team.  SLU played a much better 2nd half but WC were extremely disciplined in the back and had a great keeper that stifled any good chance.  There is no shame in losing to that squad who are on the hunt for another perennial power scalp next week at Tufts. 

All in all it was a good finish to the season for the squad who made a nice run at the end.   It's unfortunate the seniors didn't get to experience victory in the NCAA tournament, but they were able to hang their hats on a LL title run. 

However, it should still be said that it is a basic expectation for this program to make the tournament, and SLU should be the ones breaking hearts in the early rounds.   I hope Toshack is hitting the recruiting trail hard and fast, as the program needs more top to bottom quality.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 15, 2021, 02:50:25 PM
The expectation this year was that SLU wouldn't make the dance and in that regard they exceeded expectations and deserve kudos.  As to making an impact once there, the expressed sentiment on the board was that they would be one and done, and a two goal loss with a red card was consistent with their inconsistent play all year.  SLU has not won a tournament game since 2015 with better teams than this one so to get back on track needs some major retooling.  Overall it was a down year for the league.  Given Stevens almost taking out Tufts on Sunday, Vassar's 2-0 win over Stevens was the league's best showing against a quality non-conference opponent.  RPI's loss to Williams was the most telling and should have put everyone on notice that we were in for a rough year.  I drank the RPI kool-aid as well as many others including the ECAC voters who named the same 2 RPI players their offensive and defensive players of the month for both September and October.  Given that the RPI keeper was anywhere from the 3rd-5th best keeper in the league, and RPI's forward finished with a grand total of 7 goals, there were probably some other worthy candidates out there.  In the end, RPI couldn't finish.  In its last two losses to Vassar and SLU, other than an own goal, it scored no goals on 47 shots.  Given SLU's relative youth I see them as the pre-season favorite next year as last year's holdovers and grad students on other teams finished their eligibility.  I hope the LL teams schedule a lot of quality opponents and show against them.  Happy Holidays all.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 15, 2021, 09:28:54 PM
Deutschfan, excellent and objective analysis as usual.
Yes, SLU started playing with the intensity of old, but not the much else resembling their old self.
RPI just had a rough year man, you are right that Williams loss said a lot in hindsight since Williams never quite took off after that either.
Credit to RIT for makinga step
Skidmore for squeezing in there and Vassar who are the one team in the league that can honestly feel hard done for not getting the at large.
The league seems to have 2 tiers at the moment  with 6 teams in one and 3 in the other.
Not sure if there is much separation and anything can really happen next season.

For the LL atleast this was perhaps the craziest, most unpredictable and therefore fun (to the non-die hard fans) I can recall since...  well ever.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: The Mole on February 24, 2022, 07:51:49 PM
Asking for a friend..

Potential SA inquiring about teams in league that employ a "wingback" formation. Disclosure: I have no clue what this means as soccer is not my sport. Any other place or resource that could be researched to find this out?

Thanks in advance, appreciate any guidance on the subject. Posting this to the league threads that have shown mutual interest.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on March 02, 2022, 08:04:14 AM
He should consider this league for sure.
You have competition and quality.
6  different teams could have easily won the championship this year.

As to your specific question, having the skills required to play wing back will be needed at this stage regardless of whether or not the teams play that way.

I am old school, but when I played we had 2 different formations we would use, atleast the first couple years, so many coaches today will have that as well.

Your game must be flexible. If you can pass it run it and shoot it like Roy Keane says you will fit in.

Best to find a culture you enjoy and focus on that. The coaches in this league are stable and have been around for a while (Vassar will have someone new) but a quality program.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 03, 2022, 09:32:29 PM
Looks like Vassar is hiring Jonathan Hood.  He is no stranger to the Liberty League, as he was Toshack's assistant at SLU for Tosh's first 3 seasons.  A very solid hire for the Brewers. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kuiper on March 04, 2022, 02:03:34 PM
Quote from: stlawus on March 03, 2022, 09:32:29 PM
Looks like Vassar is hiring Jonathan Hood.  He is no stranger to the Liberty League, as he was Toshack's assistant at SLU for Tosh's first 3 seasons.  A very solid hire for the Brewers.

It can't be easy to replace someone who was at the program for 41 years (including being Athletic Director for a 14 years in the middle).   Jennings likely touched every part of that program from players, to facilities, to everything in-between.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on March 06, 2022, 01:42:48 PM
Thats  why you do it with a young man who can build a legacy himself with support of the school.

This coach clearly has great mentors who has shown him what it is about. Worked and attended programs with championship roots.

I wish him luck... not too much, but you know what I mean :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 09, 2022, 07:54:16 PM
We're a ways off from the start of the next season, but I figure I'll try to stoke some discussion.  Anyone have predictions for next year in terms of standings?   I have SLU glasses on obviously, but one would have to think they'll get quite a few first place votes.  They lose some defenders and Reynolds, but Sibanda is back who is good enough to make up any loss.   Max Mogul came on the 2nd half of the season and played a crucial role in the Saints run through the LL tournament, and he'll only be a sophomore next season.  Couple defenders will be lost to graduation so that aspect remains to be seen.   

RPI loses quite a bit to graduation, though you can never count them out with Clinton running the show.  Gaudiano seemed to have been figured out last season, so a lot is riding on his performance.

Ithaca loses a good deal, and Vassar will lose some impact players as well.  They do have some goal scorers returning next season, so they will likely be up there at the start. 

A team to look out for in my opinion is RIT.  Some really good young players who will be looking to take another step forward. 

I am hoping Toshack is hitting the recruiting trail hard in the offseason!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on March 09, 2022, 08:08:46 PM
The program that intrigues me now is Union.  Union has a lot going for it as a school, and now with a new coach (and hopefully new philosophy) I would not be surprised if they were consistent contenders within the next 2-3 years. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 09, 2022, 09:08:37 PM
Only if they finally strengthen their schedule.  If they keep scheduling the usual slate of cupcakes they'll never make the leap.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on March 09, 2022, 10:38:17 PM
That's the "new philosophy" I was referencing.  I assume new coach will be interested in upgrading from Albany Pharmacy, which would make them a legit option decent recruits.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on March 10, 2022, 08:01:14 AM
Union is in a tough spot, but a little hard work and knee (elbow)grease should do the trick with anew coach getting good support.
Problem in this league is that it is so tough to break out out of the bottom half to the to the top half, and even harder to be elite and possibly win the league.
Best example was Clarkson a few years back who played well for a season or 2 and made a final, then fell back the season after that.
Clinton and Jennings held on to the upper half of the league with RPI and Vassar  and are coaches who at this point can rinse and repeat with a tried and proven formula.
There is also Skidmore to contend with who run like horses and are always going to be fighting for top half.
Hobart since the 90s are at the top end of the league and not going anywhere with a super experienced coach as well.
SLU showed that even on a REALLY bad season they can have a flashback and destroy people.

That means Union will have to overcome atleast 2 of the above5 teams to get to where they want to be, top half and consistently challenging. It can be done, but will take very hard work.
This is an extremely competitive league. Unfortunately, Idont think it gets the respect it deserves... normally 1 bid and at times 2 to the dance, but some good football is played and the competition is always high.

Last season was a perfect example.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on March 10, 2022, 09:13:22 AM
Being in a tough spot isn't unique to Union.  As you noted, the league is extremely competitive so there are no guarantees of year-over-year success.  Look at Vassar as an example.  Since 2012, they've finished:
1st - 1x
2nd - 2x
3rd - 2x
4th - 2x
5th - 1x
6th - 1x

With a new coach and new philosophy, there's zero reason Union can't be competitive with the top of the league. I liken them to Gettysburg who isn't ever the consensus #1 team in the Centennial, but they're certainly a good enough team to compete at the top of their league.  Under new management, Union should find themselves in a similar situation.  They will never be the runaway favorite in the Liberty, but within 2-3 years they should no longer be a 2-7 bottom feeder. The school has a lot going for it outside of soccer, so improvements on the field will definitely make it a more attractive option for recruits.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on March 10, 2022, 04:59:59 PM
Yes. Jennings had that program as a constant threat to the teams up North. Tough place to go and play.
I feel like Vassar are securely and consistently at the top end of the league though... maybe just my perception.
Great points on Union though. The one thing I know is that the alumni is a passionate group and will be helping out in the transition.
You really only need to finish 6th in the league ad you have a shot at dancing, like SLU showed last year.
Clarkson and RIT are there fighting the same fight and Bard wont be sleeping forever either... like Union it has a nice campus and good reputation to attract quality talent.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 27, 2022, 11:27:22 PM
Not much going on these days obviously, but I see that Marvin Sibanda is starting for the Arkansas Wolves in the NPSL for the summer season.  Hopefully he gets some good experience and turns it into a phenomenal year for the Scarlet and Brown!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldNed on June 07, 2022, 03:52:02 PM
Hey Liberty League guys,
my son is going to be a grad assistant coach for a Liberty League team for the next 2 years, so I'm going to try to become much more familiar with the ins and outs of the LL.  I've mostly followed New England teams up to now, but I had nephews who played at RPI and I know St. Lawrence has Sibanda so they've got a good shot to get back to the tournament next year.  Who else should I be looking out for, both as far as teams and players in the LL next year?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 07, 2022, 04:00:33 PM
I'd keep an eye on RIT.  They have the reigning LL rookie of the year in Jaden Longdon and the Tigers had a very solid season.  They return a pretty good core this year as well.   

I expect RPI to be down a bit given the amount of seniors and 5th years they had last season, but their coaching staff should keep them competitive.

Hobart is always a team to watch.  They had some bad luck last year, but had several freshman and sophomores on the All Liberty League teams last season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 08, 2022, 09:35:56 PM
Schedules are starting to trickle in.  Clarkson, Hobart and Vassar with their full schedules up.   SLU's isn't up yet but so far they have SUNY Potsdam, SUNY Canton and Plattsburgh on the non-con docket.    I would assume Cortland and Oneonta will be on there as well, which leaves 2 or 3 more non-con games.     Last year the rest of the league had all the schedules posted around mid July.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on June 25, 2022, 08:05:46 PM
Didn't know y'all would be starting so early.  Glad to see the preseason banter.  It will be interesting to see Union's schedule and whether the new regime changes the approach of its predecessor.  I never understood Coach Guinn's scheduling strategy.  While pre-league patsies might make for early wins and accolades, Union was woefully unprepared for league competition.  Guinn had an excellent sideline presence and generated team excitement on the field.  Unfortunately the league results were abysmal, especially in the past few years.  I was surprised by Vassar's hire of Coach Hood.  I thought they would replace Coach Jennings with someone with college level head coaching experience.  Vassar's results over the past decade have placed them in the top echelon of Liberty League teams, and given the academic prestige of the school, its head coach position is a plum job.  I also assumed that if Vassar promoted an assistant coach it would be one that was home grown as opposed to coming from one of their top rivals.  It will be interesting to see how it turns out, especially against SLU.  When Coach Taylor left Vassar for Clarkson in 2014 he won his first game against his mentor. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on June 26, 2022, 02:35:19 PM
If there is one thing we can all agree on new regimes is that they are unpredictable.
Wishing the young coach good luck.

Vassar have indeed cemented themselves as a power in the league.

This leaves Clinton from RPI as the most experienced coach in the league.

Jennings was a powerhouse, and I dont think he gets quite the credit he deserves. He built the Vassar program, brick a brick and had them always competing for a title or going deep into the league tourney with a couple dances thrown in for good measure.
He is a class act and will leave huge shoes to be filled. The gap in talent in down state and upstate is huge, ask any of the CUNY schools, yet Jennings always had Vassar competing at the very top.

SimpleCoach should do a feature on him. Great service for 2 decades including being an Athletic Director  and seeing it from a bigger side.

As for the league, I have not seen this much parity in a long time or ever. The 5th place team who did not play that well ended up in the dance after winning the Tourney. A top contender loses their coach after a couple decades at the helm. Skidmore always a threat RIT always a threat, same for Hobart... this league is wide open and will likely beat each other up again, leading to just a single NCAA bid going to the luckiest team playing the best ball at the business end of the season.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 26, 2022, 04:32:19 PM
I am going to differ from my Laurentian brother and predict that the league will be top heavy with 2 or 3 teams and then everyone else. The league has been snubbed in Pool C in recent years (Ithaca in 2018 comes to mind) so I don't know if I'll go as far as to say 2 teams will make the dance, but I get the feeling there won't be as much parity.    This take will most likely age like milk, but I'm sticking with it. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on June 29, 2022, 01:25:50 PM
It's a technicality but I'd argue that TJ Kostecky at Bard is the most "experienced" coach in the Liberty League ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 29, 2022, 04:04:59 PM
SLU schedule now up.  Exactly the same as last year but with an additional non conference game against Plattsburgh.   Buff State, Cortland, Oneonta and Geneseo are usually all solid teams and have played some really good games with SLU in recent seasons.   Glad to see a full slate of 17 games. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on June 30, 2022, 09:41:18 PM
I totally vacillate between Saint's parity view and St Law's two or three top team take.  St. Lawrence should have had a down year in 2021 and made a miracle playoff run.  Reynolds had a breakout year offensively and if he returns as a grad student SLU has to be the front runner with Sibanda as the best offensive player in the league.  The two most disappointing teams last year were RPI, the regular season champ, and Hobart, who was loaded on paper and didn't make the playoffs.  RPI's season was a fail because it was a team that had the players to make a deep run in the NCAA tourney as it had in 2019.  Their late season losses to SLU and Vassar kept their ticket unpunched.  Hobart's leading scorer Matias Matic, the South American product, is not listed on their 2022 roster.  That is a huge loss.  I am curious whether Josh Gaudiano is coming back or will seek greener pastures at a D-2 school like UCSD or a D-1 school.  Gaudiano had one of the three best offensive seasons for a freshman in the past decade, joining Charlie Kelley at Hobart and Mattie Mrlik at Vassar with 20+ point inaugural seasons.  Kelley did not return to Hobart after his first year.  Mrlik had strong family ties to Vassar which probably made transferring out of the question.  Gaudiano certainly would have been enticed by a bunch of 5th years coming back for a dream season that never materialized.  Bottom line, I think it is 50-50 whether he is back.  Vassar has the best returning goalie but will need a scorer to step up.  They have never made the NCAA tournament without a 20 point player.  Bottom line, I don't know which Saint is right but I may have a stronger view when I see the final rosters. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 30, 2022, 10:17:58 PM
I don't foresee Reynolds coming back, but it would be a welcome surprise if he did.   Like most years, SLU was hit with the injury bug last season with Miles Levy (captain) and Sam Pijpers (winger) both missing more than half of the season.  If they are healthy I think they they have a shot of collectively replacing Reynolds' production.    A big factor for SLU is going to be Max Mogul taking the next step.  He had a great final third of the season as a freshman.   

Of course, it goes without saying, Sibanda will be the X factor.   Toshack says that he can be even better, and Sibanda is currently tearing it up in the NPSL right now for the Arkansas Wolves.  He's scored some absolute banger free kicks lately.   

This is the first year in a long time I have absolutely no idea about their incoming recruiting class.  D3soccer seems to have more or less shut down so their recruiting portal has not been updated since last year.  Usually I can piece together the recruiting classes through keyword searches on twitter and Google but still nada for the upcoming season. 


I said it in another comment but I think RIT has a good shot at being one of the top 3 teams.  They return a good young core, with the reigning ROY and several freshman who made the all league teams. 

With regard to Hobart, not only is Matic not on the roster but neither is Mick van Timmeren who was LL honorable mention last season.    They do have former Saint great Rob Brandell as an assistant though, nice to see his coaching career still continuing.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 01, 2022, 08:38:16 AM
Brandell is a boss man.
One of my all-time favorite Saints. Good to see him at Hobart.
Hobart always gives it to you every season. Hobart has been coming hard at SLU and playing us straight up since the 90s. A team and culture I really respect.
I think a couple freshmen are going to really surprise a few people soon.

What we miss though are those 1 or 2 guys on each team that are not freshmen, but decided that this year they will start playing football.
They could be Sophomores or even Juniors. Guys who for whatever reason (time to settle, get accommodated with food or weather, broken hearted last season, finally college fit) want to play and have that anger of not playing the year or two before. Those guys are on the roster, good enough to ot get cut, but did not fulfil their potential.

Heck, you could be one of those guys reading this.

If RIT, SLU, RPI have one or two of these guys, it could be a good season for those teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 12, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
Union's schedule is up, and it does not appear that the new coaching regime intends to immediately change the non-conference strength of schedule philosophy.   The usual slate of Sage, Lasell and MCLA are still fixtures for the upcoming season, along with Plymouth State.   New Paltz and Oneonta are obviously better tests, but Union has played New Paltz most years anyways. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 14, 2022, 07:39:04 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 12, 2014, 12:14:06 PM
Only 4 Qualify for League Tourney

2013 Standings
SLU
RPI
Skidmore
Vassar

2014  Top 6 (Predictions in no particular order)

HOBART
A couple dissapointing seasons, but a good freshman class and continued growth should  put them in the hunt for a post season birth or even Dance expectations.

UNION
2013 was close, but no cigar in terms of post season after starting the year on a 11 game unbebaten streak. Must beat 2 of last seasons league opponents to have a chance at qualification. Union is a good squad, but must play better non-conference schedule in order to better prepare for a tough league.

VASSAR
A consistently strong team over the last decade. Made NCAA and advanced in both '11 and '12.
Vassar also have an AMAZING record against every other team in the Leauge. Four ties in league play last year however, almost saw them fail to qualify. They are well coached and are looking to make another forward step. Back to back years of not dancing will not help their cause.

RPI
Another team that Danced and danced well in '11 and '12, but failed to make the NCAA in '13.
Beaten in the League semi-final by Skidmore last season, RPI still had a relative succesful year, including beating final 4 participant, Williams. It will be a tough season for the well coached RPI however, as many teams in the league have improved dramatically and ready to take the spot that now belongs to RPI. 

SKIDMORE
The most improved team in the league.
These boys have recreated the SLU formula of stifling defense and Jamaican/African flair up top.
They are the only team in the league to beat St. Lawrence in '12 and '13.
Made it to last seasons league tourney final, and were perhaps unlucky not to get an at-large invitation to the NCAA's. Teams will underestimate Skidmore to their peril this year.
They are the real deal. Potent offense and extremely hungry after last season's dissapointment.

St. Lawrence

The boys in red have had a good run since 2010.
Won league in 10,11 and 13, adding the Tourney in 10 and 13 as well.
This year however, will be the toughest yet, after losing a 4 year starter/All American at the center of midfield. This team has struggled with injuries the last few years, and will hope for a healthy year.

Close but no Cigar:

RIT
Good team, but will not win more than 3 league games, and more is needed.

Clarkson
Not good enough for the league. With new coach and everything going the right way, maybe an average team by 2017.

Bard:
Three years into the building process, and Bard are still a work in progress. Should hope for competitiveness in a good leaggue and attempt to attract the pieces needed to improve.
It is difficult to enter a good league and find success. Just ask Hamilton, no one has heard from them in NESCAC in 4 years.

Thoughts?

The more things change, the more they remain the same it seems.
The above is the first post on this thread. Take note of what I said (8 years ago) about what Union needed to do to advance in the league. Happy the new regime is taking note. This can only make us a more competitive league overall and help Union fulfil its potential.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 08, 2022, 06:08:48 PM
Took a walk along the SLU trails this morning, Sandy MacAllaster Field looks as pristine as it's ever been.  Got me pretty excited for the upcoming season.  Teams report to pre-season next week, and the season starts in 3 weeks.  Will be here before we know it!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 11, 2022, 12:03:38 AM
We won't know for sure until we see the product on the field but it appears Toshack is going back to some of the roots of SLU soccer with the incoming freshmen class.  A big 6'4" CB is on the way along with a right back/winger originally from Kenya with a very high soccer pedigree.  Hopefully the whole league is upping the recruiting ante, the upcoming season is likely to be very competitive as is.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 11, 2022, 08:20:25 AM
I think SLU had a 6 4' centerback for about 15 years running. Watson/Laird/Copeland et al.
They were all All-Americans, but all needed year or 2 years to sort out their feet in the system.

We have not missed with the African Players:
Britto/Annan/Maky/Dede/#33 are all not just all-time Greats, but SLU legends every single one was/is the best player in the league (I would need more space for the SLU Jamaicans).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on August 11, 2022, 02:58:30 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 11, 2022, 08:20:25 AM
I think SLU had a 6 4' centerback for about 15 years running. Watson/Lairid/Copeland et al.
They were all All-Americans, but all needed year or 2 years to sort out their feet in the system.

We have not missed with the African Players:
Britto/Annan/Maky/Dede/#33 are all not just all-time Greats, but SLU legends every single one was the best player in the league (I would need more space for the SLU Jamaicans).

To be fair, most of the time it took for those guys to "sort out their feet in the system" was because the system itself changed from a  3-4-3 to 4-3-3.  I think it became pretty obvious that while that style center back is very helpful, it's best to have them as part of a back 4 with a quicker and more agile CB next to them.  Hopefully Tosh has that up his sleeve!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 13, 2022, 01:34:51 PM
Actually for players like Copeland it took a couple of years for the touch to catch up with the physicality.  I remember many really ugly balls coming out of the backfield during Copeland's first couple of years.  On a different subject, my guess is that Robert Reynolds comes back.  I checked linked in on 2 seniors (I have joined the 21st Century) who were important playmakers their squads last year, Reynolds and Quinn Tunnell who was a first team selection for Vassar.  Tunnell it appears has forgone his last year of eligibility to join PIMCO, one of the most successful investment firms in the world.  Reynolds, on the other hand lists SLU related jobs relating to sports other than soccer.  He is such a dyed in the wool Saint I suspect he is going to return.  It is a testament to SLU that they can recruit a player from Dana Point, subject him to winters on the Canadian border, and have him love it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 19, 2022, 08:43:57 PM
Fan, as usual, you know what you are talking about.
In fairness it takes most players a couple seasons to sort out their feet in college, so for 6 foot 5 guys its really no surprise.

I think SLU will have a good year this season.
The league had a chance to really end the SLU dominance last season and allowed them to win the league from 5th spot (a few seasons ago, they would not even have made the league tourney)

Now you have a Saint team that has won 2 of the past 3 league tourneys despite not having the best year and what could have been an all-time bad season in 2021.

The mentality of these boys are very strong, it had to be to make the dance, but now they have the gasoline that programs and players runs on: CONFIDENCE.

Does not hurt that a top 5 All-time Saint is on the roster as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 19, 2022, 11:04:59 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 19, 2022, 08:43:57 PM
Fan, as usual, you know what you are talking about.
In fairness it takes most players a couple seasons to sort out their feet in college, so for 6 foot 5 guys its really no surprise.

I think SLU will have a good year this season.
The league had a chance to really end the SLU dominance last season and allowed them to win the league from 5th spot (a few seasons ago, they would not even have made the league tourney)

Now you have a Saint team that has won 2 of the past 3 league tourneys despite not having the best year and what could have been an all-time bad season in 2021.

The mentality of these boys are very strong, it had to be to make the dance, but now they have the gasoline that programs and players runs on: CONFIDENCE.

Does not hurt that a top 5 All-time Saint is on the roster as well.


You said it, not me!

Thing about this season is that SLU still has a good amount of high quality returning players, many whom are still in their 2nd or 3rd year.    As for the rest of the league, it's still a bit of an unknown.   I still maintain that RIT is the team to look out for, as they have the reigning ROY and a few players returning that received all conference honors.  RPI lost a lot, it's pretty hard to immediately replace the production from 5th year players. 

SLU always had the ability last year, the home game against Cortland proved that.  It was just a matter of getting everything in synch and getting hot at the right time.      By the looks of it, this year's recruiting class is shaping up to be one of, if not the strongest yet under Toshack.     

I've had many a prediction backfire on me on this site (don't look at my Liberty League basketball preseason standings predictions), but I'm going to have to agree right now with Saint, as it's usually a good bet to side with the best #7 in program history.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 20, 2022, 02:09:21 PM
Last year was the year for the league to leave SLU in the dust.  It graduated its seniors while teams like RPI kept them as grad students.  To SLU's great credit they found a way.  This year I agree that SLU and RIT will be the top two teams with SLU taking the honor if Reynolds returns.  RIT has an advantage from its preseason trip to Costa Rica.  I believe these types of bonding experiences lead to successful seasons.  Best first game this year--RPI v. Montclair State.  Both are nationally ranked preseason (although RPI's ranking is very generous considering its graduation losses) and Montclair likely returns Amer Lukovic with 17 goals as a freshman and a First Team All American slot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 24, 2022, 06:05:19 PM
Went to the SLU scrimmage today against Concordia (coached by all time Saint great Greg Sutton).  I try not to take too much away from a scrimmage, but Max Mogul looks like he's taking the next step.  Concordia had no answer for him.  Not all first team players played today, and in the 2nd half the young players had some miscommunications in the back that led to a Concordia goal.  I am not familiar with the level of competitiveness for Concordia, but they seemed like a pretty good squad.  One injury late in the 2nd half to who I think will be a starting defender for SLU, as he took a pretty hard tackle to the ankle and had to be taken off.  He'll probably miss some time.   

Nice to get a first taste of the upcoming season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Another Mom on August 24, 2022, 06:34:05 PM
My son played on a team with Max Mogul. He is very talented,  and I am happy to hear he's flourishing at St. Lawrence!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 24, 2022, 09:39:13 PM
Would have loved to see the reunion between the SLU Coach T and Sutts.
They both joined the Saint family about  a quarter century ago and both stood out by shutting out. Sutts owes  alot of success in his career (MLS/National Team) to Tosh and SLU owes them both. Sure both Canadians were happy with the kick abooooot.

Max is a good player and a kid that radiates when you meet him in person as well. He will be a great Saint when it is all said and done. He just has to stay CONFIDENT and concentrate on improving every single time he plays. Amazing potential.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 27, 2022, 07:10:31 PM
Vogel was the best SLU player on the field during the first SLU-Vassar game last year. Agree with Saint that his potential is sky high.  Vassar just posted its roster. Top recruit appears to be a 6"3 centerback with a DA and family pedigree. Vassar hopes that he is Zander Mrlik reincarnated and if even close he will add to a formidable back unit anchored by the league's best goalie. Tunnell does not appear on the roster as predicted. Is Reynolds back for SLU?  Predictions are due before Thursday students and Reynolds presence is going to affect my hierarchy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 27, 2022, 08:58:33 PM
No Reynolds for SLU.    He will be greatly missed.    The Dutch striker who was injured last year is now playing the 9, and in SLU's second scrimmage yesterday evening he bagged 2 goals so he will be succeeding Reynolds in that position.  I hope he picks up where Reynolds left off!   From a selfish standpoint I hope deutschfan keeps the Saints low on his list, put the pressure on everyone else!  ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 28, 2022, 07:57:11 AM
Any true Dutchman will fit into an Ajax team.

Saint Maxima and #33 are going to dictate  how far SLU go this year.

I want to see the rest of the league though. I obviously have a team close to the border close to my heart, but really want the LL to get more respect as a whole.

I think as a league we are wayy better than we get credit for.
RPI just had a deep run, Hobart had one just a few seasons ago.
Vassar is always there or there abouts and SLU is usually dancing.

Unfortunately this seems to be a 1 bid league for a while when realistically and in fairness the league should have 2 teams at minimum dancing like our Brothers in the SUNYAC.

I understand that it is about SOS/Head to Head/ Streaks at the end of season/record against winning teams/Many other variables, but it seems the league does not get the respect it deserves.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on August 28, 2022, 02:53:03 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 28, 2022, 07:57:11 AM

I obviously have a team close to the border close to my heart, but really want the LL to get more respect as a whole.

I think as a league we are way better than we get credit for.
RPI just had a deep run, Hobart had one just a few seasons ago.
Vassar is always there or thereabouts and SLU is usually dancing.

Unfortunately this seems to be a 1 bid league for a while when realistically and in fairness the league should have 2 teams at minimum dancing like our Brothers in the SUNYAC.

I understand that it is about SOS/Head to Head/ Streaks at the end of season/record against winning teams/Many other variables, but it seems the league does not get the respect it deserves.

Agree that the league is underrated and should get at least two teams to the NCAA tournament annually.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 28, 2022, 08:16:21 PM
Still have my eye on RIT.  Young team with some quality players, and they just got back from a trip to Costa Rica and dispatched Nazareth in their final preseason scrimmage.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 29, 2022, 11:59:44 AM
Without Reynolds I give RIT the top spot at least in the regular season.  Calling the playoffs, especially after last year, at this juncture is like flipping coins.  As for putting the pressure on SLU, last year I had them barely making the playoffs and RPI winning league--that was right until the playoffs.  Hobart was an enigma last year and still is. RPI's lineup is up.  Kept two grad students including First Teamer (with an asterisk when you compare his stats with second teamer Reynolds) Silva.  Also they have added a 6'2 forward from NE who scored 7 goals in a high school game.  However, many a prolific high school scorer has come into this league only to learn that college soccer is a whole different world.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jknezek on August 29, 2022, 12:44:44 PM
Anyone interested in participating in the D3soccer Fan poll this season?

If you are interested in participating, I will run the poll again if we get enough pollsters. My only caveat is that if you agree to participate you try your best to do it every week so that things are consistent. Also, you try to be on time because it's no fun for anyone if I have to track you down every week and pester you to get your votes in.

Unless someone has a better idea, I'll run it the same as last year with the same deadlines, so the poll will include games that start before Sunday at midnight EST and will be due to me before Tuesday EST at midnight and I will try to post on Wednesday.

I will not do a preseason poll. I hate them. They set up a ton of positional bias and, especially with 400+ teams in D3, there simply is no way to do a good one. The first poll will be based on games played prior to 9/11 and will be due to me on 9/13. That gives us roughly 2 weeks of games to start making judgements.

If you are interested, and I realize we about 2 weeks out, please send me a PM. I hope we get our pollsters back from last year, as they did an excellent job, but if you want to join in, I'm always open to more!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 31, 2022, 07:07:35 PM
Tomorrow is opening day and as I have been wrong so many times before in my predictions I have no ego left and no trepidation about doing it again.  Some general thoughts--1) SLU's squad has a very international flavor and it will be interesting to see if that changes the style of play; 2) It seems like most of the teams recruited a big, tall center back; 3) Ithaca keeps three seniors as graduate students, two of whom were significant contributors last year; and 4) From what I have heard about SLU's and other teams' pre-season scrimmages, a lot of people are making a major impact for the first time making it difficult to handicap the field. Just one of many excuses I keep in my back pocket when it all goes south.  And the predictions are--1) RIT-should win it all and even if not should make its first NCAA appearance since joining the league; 2) SLU-if the foreign players gel look out; 3) RPI- I think Gaudiano's third year will be more like his first than his second which helps make up for all of the graduation losses; 4) Vassar-their defense will keep them in every game; 5) Ithaca-still will be looking for a consistent scorer; 6) Hobart-a dismal season last year but a dead cat bounce will be limited by the loss of their best player; 7) Skidmore-still more of a spoiler than a dancer; 8) Clarkson-always better than Bard and Union; 9) Bard-a sentimental choice; and 10) Union-schedule still has some major softness and even if it didn't it will take a while for the players to up their game against better competition.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 31, 2022, 07:52:00 PM
RIT actually has a lot more coming back than I initially thought.  They had some real solid wins last year as well, including one against RPI.  Skidmore got them twice which was a major outlier but not unsurprising given their youth.  I do not expect RIT to drop games like that this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 31, 2022, 09:25:01 PM
I am not putting too much confidence in RIT because they had an overseas trip.
I think the bonding and playing against unorthodox competition can help a team, but can also be overblown.

I rate them highly because I think it just might be their time.
SLU have their history
Vassar has had some great years, Clinton and his RPI boys just had a memorable year to go with a few more.
Hobart was flying high a few years back and might be again,  but RIT never seem to have had that run.
Always playing well, but under achieving since the inception of the LL that is.

They are also playing on the Coach DOUG MAY field this year.
For those that dont know, Doug May is the GOAT the GOATS think is the GOAT.
Had an a major impact on RIT/Nazareth and many coaches plying their trade over the past few decades. A true icon.

Those boys will be playing with an extra fire this season and are returning some ballers.
I too have them finishing #1.

#2 is very tough. I think that RPI gets the nod due to who they are returning
SLU is in at #3 as they are defending champs and really could have been 2 as well.
Hobart will finish #4 and surprise a few people along the way. Ithaca at 5 but could win the tourney as well and Skidmore 6.

This will be an interesting season and as we have seen last year anyone who makes the tournament has a shot at dancing.





Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 01, 2022, 09:20:07 PM
I said it already about the Zulu Saint.
Top 5 all time, and that is after just 2 seasons and Top 5 is being very very conservative.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 01, 2022, 09:51:46 PM
That goal by Sibanda was at least 35 yards out.  Looks like his NPSL experience is already paying dividends, as he banged in several similar free kicks for the Arkansas Wolves this summer.  I'm going to have to get to as many games in person as I can this year, what a treat it is to watch him play for the Scarlet and Brown.  Don't know when SLU will have a player like him again in the future.

SLU wasn't perfect (seems like a tradition for the start of the season to be marked by several injuries to starters) but the possession game had Geneseo dogging it a bit in the final 20 and got their back line caught up a bit too high leading to the 2nd goal.  The 2 recruits I mentioned in an earlier post look like a nice CB pair, not many mistakes on their part.

RIT let one get away from them, pretty brutal finish in them giving up a goal with 30 seconds left to lose the lead.  Their attacking players look really good though, they'll bounce back.

RPI gets a pretty good result with a scoreless draw @Montclair.  Only 2 shots on goal between both teams, with both going to Montclair.   That was a textbook Adam Clinton coached game, their floor is pretty high this year.

Looks like Bard is going to get the W.  Their coach has really high pedigree, I hope Bard rights the ship this season.  Couldn't ask for a better start on their part.

Union also with a scoreless draw.  Don't know what to make of the Dutchmen yet. 

Hobart cruises against Keuka.  Not the best competition but if Hobart gets some confidence, rest of the league better look out.

Vassar had a pretty pedestrian performance against West Conn.  They lost that game in the opener last year as well, so I doubt this is the real Vassar. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 02, 2022, 08:57:32 AM
Football is like a Piano,  You Need 8 Men to Carry It And 3 who can Play the Damn Thing.

That quote by Shankly makes sense to everyone who has played the game. I think the LL team (or2) that fits that phrase best will be dancing later this year.

Liked what I saw from SLU, playing football but not holding possession in the backline longer than necessary.  Also a revolutionary technique of using a point guard in football.

RIT looked good with a couple piano players themselves.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 02, 2022, 07:39:46 PM
Saint I love your passion.  I hope Sibanda is the next coming.  An excellent season and a free kick do not quite raise one to all time saint status but I hope for Saint fans that the saint comes marching in.  Comment about Vassar was accurate--very pedestrian effort.  Best player on the field was a freshman center back for West Conn, number 23, who is going to be a star.  RPI's tie was odd because the best player on each side did not take the field, Gaudiano, and a sophomore returning All American number 10 for Montclair State.  If for some reason Gaudiano's absence extends to the league season RPI is in a world of hurt.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 02, 2022, 08:13:14 PM
Right back at you Deutschfan.
Never said he was all-time Saint status, that group is maybe a good 22,am squad... I said he was top 5 (At minimum)

No over reaction man.
I told People Dede was the best player in the league before he kicked the first ball for SLU and he left as back to back league MVP.

This kid is even better.

First Saint in history to top score in his first two seasons (and scoring is not really what he does).
Already a league MVP and just really getting started.

There are players and then there are players.
Levels to football. This man is not normal.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 03, 2022, 09:36:46 PM
A day marked by goalkeeping errors.  Skidmore's 5th year and 2021 LL 2nd team keeper made a poor distribution error in the last 20 seconds of the game that led to a WPI equalizer.   RPI's 5th year keeper had 2 mistakes that led to the Engineers dropping a game against the Beacons. 

Clarkson and Bard get 2 good wins, great start for both teams.

Ithaca-TX Lutheran was perhaps the most boring game I've ever watched. 

SLU plays a pretty entertaining game with Buff St resulting in a 2-2 draw.  SLU had some severe bad luck, shot went off the post in the first 10 seconds of the game and they hit the post 3 more times.  Buff St is a really good team, however.  In my opinion they will be competing with Cortland and Oneonta.   They are a great passing team that knows how to possess and penetrate.   SLU will be happy to get away from turf for the next game, and hopefully start to get some injured players back in the lineup.

With all of these draws already piling up around the country I am going to be very interested to see how it affects regional rankings and Pool C bids.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 04, 2022, 12:27:36 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 28, 2022, 07:57:11 AM
Any true Dutchman will fit into an Ajax team.

Saint Maxima and #33 are going to dictate  how far SLU go this year.

I want to see the rest of the league though. I obviously have a team close to the border close to my heart, but really want the LL to get more respect as a whole.

I think as a league we are wayy better than we get credit for.
RPI just had a deep run, Hobart had one just a few seasons ago.
Vassar is always there or there abouts and SLU is usually dancing.

Unfortunately this seems to be a 1 bid league for a while when realistically and in fairness the league should have 2 teams at minimum dancing like our Brothers in the SUNYAC.

I understand that it is about SOS/Head to Head/ Streaks at the end of season/record against winning teams/Many other variables, but it seems the league does not get the respect it deserves.

Saint Maxima and the Smooth one are indeed taking the team on their shoulders this season. Buff State will also hurt people this year.
Early days yet, but these SUNYAC v. LL games are fun to watch.
Hope both leagues are well represented at the dance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 05, 2022, 08:40:45 PM
Skidmore ends the long weekend with a nice win over UMass Boston, a team coming off a win against RPI at Troy.  Only two unblemished teams after the first weekend are Clarkson and Bard.  Not a good statistic for pool c bids.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 06, 2022, 08:10:05 AM
Yes. 2 games and no wins are not good statistics to start the season out on, unless you have a Casamero and Antony joining the team soon.
Still sticking to my predictions for now, but this league will likely beat other up pretty well so it is extremely important to not drop games in the non-conference schedule unless you plan on definitely winning the tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 07, 2022, 08:09:33 PM
Vassar getting back on track with their 2nd straight win.  Big test this weekend against Stevens. 

RPI continues to feel the pain from Gaudiano's absence.  Unlucky to not at least draw with Manhattanville, but another dropped contest for them.  Manhattanville seems to have a pretty decent team, as they drew with Stevens earlier.

SLU tied the program record for goals scored in a 9-0 victory against the crosstown rival Roos.  Optimal scenario for the Saints as they pulled the starters at halftime, need all the recovery time they can get for a really tough matchup this weekend at Oneonta. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 08, 2022, 07:58:34 AM
That 9-0 win was the biggest since 1969 and Coach Bob Goodwin coached team on his way to building the first SLU powerhouse era.
I have always said Coach Goodwin had many Good wins.

RPI looks like they have to win this league tournament at this point, but still early days yet.

Vassar and their new coach looks to be getting it going.

Union lost to Oneonta 3-0 and good for them. Playing strong teams is exactly what Union failed to do for the past decade which hurt them in the tough  LL.

This season is sure looking to be interesting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 10, 2022, 10:18:52 AM
We will see how the strategy of scheduling creampuffs before your toughest non-conference game works out for SLU and Vassar today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 10, 2022, 04:54:08 PM
Really good win for Clarkson at CNU.  One of the best wins for that program in quite a while. 

   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 10, 2022, 06:14:16 PM
Great Great Game.
One of the best soccer games I have seen in a while.
The Queen's passing meant no premier league this week, but these boys did not disappoint.
SLU v. Oneonta.
Perhaps the 2 biggest names in the region for the past 20 years (Factoring in my bias).
Even game first half (with a slight edge to SunyO) but SLU went down 2-0 first half to a very clinical Oneonta team.

That advantage flipped (slightly) to SLU in the 2nd half even though they went down 3-1 in the second half.
SLU came back to 3-2 in the 2nd half with just a disrespectful flick in the penalty box by the African Saint who was once again worth paying money to watch in this game.


3-2 SUNY Oneonta.
I think both teams were well tested and had a much different experience than their past game.

Oneonta got SLU in 2011 Sweet16 game by a 1 goal margin as well and perhaps were the best team left in the dance after that and just didn't win the whole thing which went to Ohio Weslyan and Dr.J that year I think.

Both teams maybe learned something tonight but congrats to the Dragons on this one.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 10, 2022, 06:16:28 PM
SLU made a game of it, but like pretty much every year against Oneonta set pieces cost them.  Team could have easily rolled over but they stayed with it.    Oneonta starts around 8 seniors and they showed it, very few mistakes with lots of team chemistry.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 10, 2022, 06:27:04 PM
Strange start to the year. Clarkson and Bard only unblemished LL teams after a week and a half.  RIT and RPI winless making their pool C chances almost nil only 3 games in.  I totally over-estimated the benefits of RITs pre-season trip abroad and I thank Saint for putting the right perspective on it earlier.  Oneonta is a tough place to play to begin with and the defensive errors in the first half sealed the deal for SLU.  SLU needs a result against Cortland or its Pool C chances start circling the drain as well. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Chargers96 on September 10, 2022, 06:38:33 PM
Saw the Clarkson - CNU game in person.  Field heavily tilted in CNU's favor nearly the entire game.  Clarkson pounced on a defensive miscue.  Clarkson keeper and defense withstood tons of pressure.  CNU 21 shots to 6.  Hit the post and a major shout for a penalty not given.  But credit to Clarkson's defense for keeping the ball out of the net.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 11, 2022, 01:50:16 PM
Not sure what Clarkson did to appease the soccer gods but they are fully on their side right now.  Another 1-0 win against a very good team for the Golden Knights, this time as a result of an own goal from a whiffed back pass.  Clarkson could have easily packed it in but they played the whole game.  Something's brewing over in Potsdam.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 11, 2022, 01:57:13 PM
That is indeed correct.
Clarkson has started the season with 4 consecutive 1-0 wins.
Not just that but they have Canton on their schedule next and can very likely enter LL play at 6-0.

Still not convinced until I see them against league competition, but hats off to a perfect start to the season.
4-0 impressive.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 11, 2022, 06:20:14 PM
The 1977 Undefeated D1 Champions v. The 1999 Undefeated D3 Champions.
A good match up of Upstate NY schools.

SLU was coming off a tough 3-2 defeat against a good Oneonta team and Hartwick just lost 2-0 to Hobart the day before.

Hartwick struck first with a nice play down the left side for a 1-0 lead.

2 Quick goals by SLU #10 and another nice finish from a counter had St. Lawrence up 3-1 at the half.

Hartwick played well 2nd half and pulled one back with a penalty with 25 minutes or so to go in the game.

Game ends 3-2 in favor of Saints.

3-1-1 on the season not too bad a start, but the real test is always the Liberty League.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 11, 2022, 06:59:34 PM
Fatigue definitely set in during the 2nd half.  Lot of squad rotation with young players getting action in the 2nd half as well.   Certainly a better result than last year, as the game started to look like it was mirroring the 2021 result.  Tosh has said in the post game recaps that the team has a never give up attitude, and they did well to respond.

Did not predict Skidmore thumping Haverford, great result for them.  Hobart ran into the Oneonta buzz saw, that team is going to make a deep run.   

Ithaca not having a good start, but you can't expect them to play like that in league play, they will be ready.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 14, 2022, 10:05:25 PM
Solid win for Vassar today against New Paltz.  New Paltz have been having a good season. 

Clarkson keeps rolling.  Still need to see them in league play but they have the results and confidence. 

Seems like a rebuilding year for Ithaca. 

Bit of a disappointing result for SLU tonight, the injury and crossbar gods continue to be against them.  Thought SLU should have had a penalty at the end, from where I was sitting it looked like a foul (as did the Potsdam center back).    By my count there's still 4 first team players out with injuries.  Going to need all the rest they can get for Cortland next week.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2022, 08:03:23 AM
Looks like the Bomber class that came in 2018 was real class.
That year, first year in the conference I think,  they made it to the finals and lost in Canton on heart breaking penalty kick shootout.

The year after that, if memory serves, they missed the league title again, but got an at-large bid to dance.

Covid struck them in 2020.

Last season, made it to the league finals again and fell short against SLU.

Losing classes like that can really affect a team. Unless you reload along the way with a great class or a  couple dominant players you can get hurt.

I am not writing off the Bombers just yet though, last season this time Saints were basically where they are now, but were able to sneak into the tourney and win the whole thing in order to dance.

Clarkson and Bard top the league, Ithaca and RIT bottom.
This is not your Grandfather's Liberty League.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldSoccerGuy on September 15, 2022, 12:59:22 PM
Vassar totally outplayed NP in the first half in all facets of the game. Vassar outworked and held their shape must better than NP in the first half. Vassar ran the same two patterns of play and all half with very good results.
NP had ZERO SOG in the first half

Second half was mostly NP but partially due to Vassar sitting back.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 15, 2022, 02:02:25 PM
Yes NP didn't show up in the first half. Hard to believe they got a result against NYU. Vassar needed a win against a regionally ranked opponent to keep pool c hopes alive. They also need a result this weekend against Montclair who now has their sophomore All American back. It is unfathomable that Ithaca would score 1 goal in 5 games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 17, 2022, 04:10:45 PM
Hobart pretty much dominated UR today, really great win for them.   Given the history of the selection committee this UR loss will be treated like a win for them. 

Vassar and Skidmore both drew first blood, but neither could pull out the win.  Still a decent road result for the Thoroughbreds.

You can say what you want about Bard's strength of schedule, but they are winning which will go a long way for their confidence come league play.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 17, 2022, 05:23:38 PM
Hobart's win against Rochester is the League's best to date and given the remaining non-conference fixtures, the League's best non-conference win for the year.  Vassar's third loss becomes a pool c backbreaker.  Only once has a 5 loss LL team received a Pool C, Ithaca in 2019, who sported two non-conference wins over ranked teams including Messiah.  Last year Vassar was snubbed with 4 losses, so even that number doesn't necessarily get you intp the dance.  Because of the tournament, all the Pool C candidates will get a post season loss.  So realistically, unless you have a crazy good regular season conference record, you need to try to come out of pre-season with one loss.  That's why the Cortland game is so huge for SLU.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 20, 2022, 08:07:06 AM
Ithaca got that Pool C in 2019 after a heart breaking 2018 PK tourney final loss and a team that should have probably danced that year staying home.

I agree with those that say U of R seem to be darlings of the committee, but all you have to do is what Hobart did.

League shaping up quite differently than what most of us envisioned, which is why we love this game so much. It is drama: Plot twists, new interesting characters becoming leading men after having just supporting roles in past seasons.

SLU v. Cortland should be enjoyable. Last season it turned out to be a great game that the Saints dropped in OT. In hindsight, one of their better games last season before a strong finish to the season.

Looks like Bard and especially Clarkson will make some noise this season. The one down side for the Golden Knights is that they go form having no big expectations and having fun, to now, feeling like the season is lost if they fail to make the league tourney, which will still be a difficult thing to do. It only feels more likely now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 20, 2022, 02:32:11 PM
As of Sept. 20, Clarkson is the only LL men's soccer team getting any love in the poll:

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 20, 2022, 09:12:19 PM


https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/
[/quote]
SLU v. Cortland was indeed an enjoyable game.
Saints did a good job staying compact throughout.
I think having a player who can be as good attacking as defending gives an advantage in really tight games like this.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 20, 2022, 09:28:04 PM
Despite Mogul out with an injury, the Saint attack was pretty on point tonight.  Sam Peacock has been a revelation on defense.  He missed the first 5 games, had a good debut against Potsdam and tonight completely bottled up Cortland's very talented #7.    Really nice knuckling free kick by Cortland to open things up, but SLU didn't let up. 

Pretty solid night for the Liberty League.  Union gets a W. Clarkson gets their 5th 1-0 win and are off to their best start since 1990.   Vassar shuts out regionally ranked Manhattanville (yes I know not official regional rankings) on the road and then you have SLU knocking off nationally ranked Cortland on the road. 

RIT gets the first league win of the year against Hobart.  Statesmen are impossible to figure out right now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 20, 2022, 09:28:54 PM
RIT beats Hobart 2-0

This makes the league a bit more interesting.

Looks like that Costa Rican trip is paying dividends :)

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 21, 2022, 07:27:39 PM
Really nice win for SLU.  Bit scary in second half with ball settled at Cortland forward's feet six yards out and only the goalie to beat but the keeper instinctually went the right way and an easy near post finish is turned into a game saver.  Vassar's defense will always keep them in the mix (I think I've already said that).  Saturday game between Vassar and RIT is huge.  Although Saint didn't have Vassar making the playoffs it will be a true test for both teams.  How Hobart whacks Rochester and then lays an egg against RIT is beyond me but that is why you play the game. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 21, 2022, 08:12:50 PM
RPI trailing TCNJ at home
Skidmore, still with just 1 loss beating Ramapo at home 2-0.
The more games you watch the more unpredictable the league becomes.
That RIT win over Hobart might just be a sign of things to come and proof that this league will just beat each other up.
Is it too late to switch our top 6 picks?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 21, 2022, 10:30:54 PM
In the words of Carole King, it's too late baby.  I am really curious why Gaudiano is not playing for RPI.  Such a shame if it is one of those freakish pre-season injuries that cost a player a year or sometimes even more.  RPI could really use him.  He had such a phenomenal freshman year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 24, 2022, 09:22:19 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 31, 2022, 09:25:01 PM
I am not putting too much confidence in RIT because they had an overseas trip.
I think the bonding and playing against unorthodox competition can help a team, but can also be overblown.

I rate them highly because I think it just might be their time.
SLU have their history
Vassar has had some great years, Clinton and his RPI boys just had a memorable year to go with a few more.
Hobart was flying high a few years back and might be again,  but RIT never seem to have had that run.
Always playing well, but under achieving since the inception of the LL that is.

They are also playing on the Coach DOUG MAY field this year.
For those that dont know, Doug May is the GOAT the GOATS think is the GOAT.
Had an a major impact on RIT/Nazareth and many coaches plying their trade over the past few decades. A true icon.

Those boys will be playing with an extra fire this season and are returning some ballers.
I too have them finishing #1.

#2 is very tough. I think that RPI gets the nod due to who they are returning
SLU is in at #3 as they are defending champs and really could have been 2 as well.
Hobart will finish #4 and surprise a few people along the way. Ithaca at 5 but could win the tourney as well and Skidmore 6.

This will be an interesting season and as we have seen last year anyone who makes the tournament has a shot at dancing.
Well, since I cannot change my predictions, I will be holding on strong and make excuses until all the above teams are mathematically eliminated from top 6.  Clarkson might make us all look bad, they have played 6 games and conceded 0 goals, but they have to do it in the league and in the LL you can take many Ls if you are not careful. Big weekend for RPI,RIT and SLU. All the alphabet teams will be pushed very hard this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 24, 2022, 10:22:35 AM
Predictions for today's games:
Vassar 0, RIT 0
SLU 3, Union 1
RPI 1, Bard 0
Skidmore 2, Hobart 1
Clarkson 1, Ithaca 0

Vassar/RIT is a tossup. If RPI loses season is effectively over. Clarkson brings best defense against worst offense. Hobart's bad twin returns.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 24, 2022, 03:10:14 PM
Vassar made RIT look terrible. So many balls to nowhere by RIT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 24, 2022, 05:37:56 PM
Vassar completely owning RIT was not on my bingo card to say the least.  Vassar has pretty good home field advantage with that nice grass field though, much different beast than turf. 

RPI took care of business, albeit with 2 penalties but a W is a W.

Clarkson probably a bit disappointed with their result but they record their 7th shut out. 

Skidmore got punched in the mouth early by Hobart but still got a result. 

The Dutchman stays hot for SLU and notches his 6th goal in the last minute to take down Union. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 24, 2022, 08:19:48 PM
St.Lawrence 1 Union 0


The Dutchman sinks the Dutchmen

Is it just me?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 28, 2022, 07:00:40 PM
It took 8 games into the season, but someone finally scored on Clarkson.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 28, 2022, 09:11:38 PM
Vassar all alone in 1st after dispatching Bard. 

Clarkson finally goes down.  Skidmore having a pretty nice go of it so far.  Only one loss to a pretty good team.

SLU played pretty poorly but still got a result.  I wonder if the RPI student section will now think twice about heckling a player that proceeds to tie the game up a minute later.    SLU has to be happy to finally get back home.   Almost all road games on turf takes a toll.


Feels like anyone can beat anyone.  Going to be an exciting October.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldNed on September 29, 2022, 08:17:32 AM
Quote from: stlawus on September 28, 2022, 09:11:38 PM
Vassar all alone in 1st after dispatching Bard. 

Clarkson finally goes down.  Skidmore having a pretty nice go of it so far.  Only one loss to a pretty good team.

SLU played pretty poorly but still got a result.  I wonder if the RPI student section will now think twice about heckling a player that proceeds to tie the game up a minute later.    SLU has to be happy to finally get back home.   Almost all road games on turf takes a toll.


Feels like anyone can beat anyone.  Going to be an exciting October.

Yeah, student section was a bit rough at times.  Even the RPI sideline guy had to admonish them for going over the line with one of their rants.

I was at the St. Lawrence/Union game and at RPI last night and I thought the SLU offence was much better with Max Mogul in the mix, but they do seem to have some defensive lapses.  Curious as to why they have Marvin Sibanda playing mostly on defense - anyone have any insight?  It looks like he has a cast or other type of covering on his arm, so perhaps that factors into the mix?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 29, 2022, 10:09:56 AM
Saint Maxima definitely makes us stronger in attack.
Sibanda plays point guard not defense or mid. Last night much more defensive correct. He is a player who can step when necessary though. I think injuries forcing some adjustments at the moment, but big teams don't have that excuse. Squad should be able to cover.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 29, 2022, 08:43:37 PM
Mogul is a difference maker, but he's still making his way back from an injury he picked up against Potsdam.  There are still quite a few injuries including one of the CBs, but like Saint said good teams have depth and adapt and overcome.  SLU is vulnerable to counter attacks like the one they conceded on the 2nd goal because they play their outside backs pretty high so a well placed pass in transition can be devastating. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 01, 2022, 06:43:39 PM
Vassar keeps taking care of business to remain alone at the top.

Skidmore gets another statement win with a late game winner @ RPI, this Thoroughbred team is dangerous. 

Clarkson with yet another 1-0 victory, the Golden Knights are for real. 

SLU gets their depth tested against Ithaca but pull out the 1-0 victory.  I can see how Ithaca has allowed so few goals despite their record, they defended very well. 

Wednesday will be one of the most high profile and high stake games between SLU and Clarkson in recent history.   Game is big enough that I managed to get Stlawus Senior off the golf course that day to head to Sandy MacAllaster instead.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 02, 2022, 06:44:15 PM
League appears wide open except for a few stragglers.  Vassar has great defense and a balanced attack with Keker playing the 9 (transformed from a defender when first recruited--love that), and Fauth as a 10 with a great engine.  Vassar is still a question mark because their three league wins include two of the weakest teams in the league, and RIT, who on that day was the weakest team in the league.  RIT needs to spend a couple weeks just on keeping possession off a throw.  SLU's record is by the skin of their teeth including this weekend's own goal win against Ithaca (unfortunately for Ithaca it doesn't count in their team goal scoring column or they would be up to 4 goals in 8 games--Ithaca is in the running for fewest goals in a season by a LL team), and a last minute win against bottom tier Union.  I agree Skidmore has shown best given its competition so far and how the games between SLU, Vassar, and Skidmore play out will likely decide the regular season champion.  Clarkson has not demonstrated the offensive punch that I think is necessary to win the league.  However, looking at the scores this Saturday no team is playing like an offensive juggernaut so maybe Clarkson can average a goal a game and win it. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 02, 2022, 09:15:46 PM
Agree with everything you said.
Saints have been winning games closely, but they have not been outplayed all year (in my opinion).
I have spent the past few seasons going crazy watching too much possesion in the back, but they cleaned this up big time.
The Wednesday tilt Route 11 Bowl between SLU and Clarkson is shaping up as a battle between two solid defensive teams.
Clarkson has given.up.1 goal in 9 games.
Wow.

I also agree that Skidmore looks.to be the class of the league so far as well.

I say it every season, but Bard will surprise a couple league foes this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 04, 2022, 10:17:44 PM
Union thoroughly outplayed Plattsburgh tonight.  They only lost 1-0 to Vassar (on the road) and SLU (last minute goal), and played Oneonta scoreless for a half, nice for them to finally get a good result. 

Hobart gets smoked at home to Cortland.   The Statesmen are this year's LL enigma.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 05, 2022, 06:02:26 PM
It ends 1-1 in Canton between Clarkson and SLU.
Looks like Clarkson's ranking is legitimate.
That team will surely make the league tournament and mess up my predictions for the year.
They might even finish top 3.
I wonder how the committee will look at ties for a possible Pool C team.

St. Lawrence has played 11 games and lost 1 but they have 4 ties and with no OT this season, ties are not as rare as they used to be.

League is looking very open now and as someone said above, seems like anyone can beat anyone.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 05, 2022, 06:33:00 PM
A much stronger offense in the second half of the SLU Clarkson game with Marvin moving up.  What a surprise the he missed a penalty kick with one minute to go.  He usually never misses those.  Hopefully Mogul will be back soon to ignite the offense.  SLU was the better team.  Clarkson uses a ton of subs to keep on the ball and disrupt their opponents.  I dont see them at the top of the table.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 05, 2022, 06:47:03 PM
I was impressed with Clarkson, they made very few mistakes and were good going forward.  As the previous poster mentioned, SLU missed two golden opportunities in the final minute and are probably disappointed to not get 3 points.  Clarkson was definitiely the better team in the first half, but they were tired out in the 2nd half and SLU got the better of the half in my opinion.  Rest of the month is shaping up to be an entertaining finish for the league.   

I also agree that they are missing Mogul, looked like he picked up a knock against RPI. He is the fastest player on the field in every game and is a very smooth finisher. They are also missing McDougald as well who was one of their better players last year.  He got stepped on his ankle in a preseason scrimmage and has still yet to make his debut.    It's basically a yearly tradition for the injury bug to affect SLU.  Can't really remember a season where it hasn't had an impact.   Everyone has injuries though, have to rise above it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 05, 2022, 07:07:42 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on October 05, 2022, 06:33:00 PM
A much stronger offense in the second half of the SLU Clarkson game with Marvin moving up.  What a surprise the he missed a penalty kick with one minute to go.  He usually never misses those.  Hopefully Mogul will be back soon to ignite the offense.  SLU was the better team.  Clarkson uses a ton of subs to keep on the ball and disrupt their opponents.  I dont see them at the top of the table.
Welcome aboard Saint-Dad.
I am looking forward to your thoughts as the weather gets colder.

Clarkson can be tricky this season, as one who initially underestimated them, it is clear to see why they dont give up many goals.
The culture is hard working.
Still, they have to maneuver a very difficult league and desperate teams going forward so who knows.

I have always said that the Saint10 is more of a point guard than any other position, he runs the game the way he wants to run it... slows it down/speeds it up.
We are all human.  I know from experience that missing a penalty in the dying moments of a SLU home game infront of our fans is a tough thing. I think this kid has the confidence to know that the entire Saint nation knows he will make the next one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 05, 2022, 07:21:10 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 05, 2022, 07:07:42 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on October 05, 2022, 06:33:00 PM
A much stronger offense in the second half of the SLU Clarkson game with Marvin moving up.  What a surprise the he missed a penalty kick with one minute to go.  He usually never misses those.  Hopefully Mogul will be back soon to ignite the offense.  SLU was the better team.  Clarkson uses a ton of subs to keep on the ball and disrupt their opponents.  I dont see them at the top of the table.
Welcome aboard Saint-Dad.
I am looking forward to your thoughts as the weather gets colder.

Clarkson can be tricky this season, as one who initially underestimated them, it is clear to see why they dont give up many goals.
The culture is hard working.
Still, they have to maneuver a very difficult league and desperate teams going forward so who knows.

I have always said that the Saint10 is more of a point guard than any other position, he runs the game the way he wants to run it... slows it down/speeds it up.
We are all human.  I know from experience that missing a penalty in the dying moments of a SLU home game infront of our fans is a tough thing. I think this kid has the confidence to know that the entire Saint nation knows he will make the next one.

Stlawus Senior was at the game with me, and he had a completely unbiased view of the teams as this is his first time watching either of them.  He agreed that Clarkson seems deserving of their ranking and never gave the ball away.   He also said 10 is clearly the best player on the field and impressed him immensely.   He thought it was unusual but smart to play him like SLU does in the "point guard" style that Saint mentioned.   

And yes, welcome aboard Saint Dad.  The more the merrier, as sometimes it seems like me and Saint are talking to the walls in here!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 05, 2022, 07:42:05 PM
Deutchfan drops loads of knowledge on here as well man!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 05, 2022, 07:43:47 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 05, 2022, 07:42:05 PM
Deutchfan drops loads of knowledge on here as well man!

How could I forget the Deutschfan!!! Many apologies to Deutsch, guy knows his stuff and keeps the conversation stoked.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 06, 2022, 09:04:12 PM
Thanks for the props.  The Clarkson-SLU game was an enjoyable watch of two excellent teams.  I do miss overtimes.  There is nothing like the pressure and jubilation attendant to two sudden death (victory to be politically correct) periods. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hopkins92 on October 07, 2022, 11:48:52 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 06, 2022, 09:04:12 PM
Thanks for the props.  The Clarkson-SLU game was an enjoyable watch of two excellent teams.  I do miss overtimes.  There is nothing like the pressure and jubilation attendant to two sudden death (victory to be politically correct) periods.

I always thought the description is all about perspective. Your team is up 3-0 and loses 4-3... that's a catastrophic loss for you... It's miraculous for the other side.

So...sudden victory or death is in the eye of the blessed/damned.

:D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 07, 2022, 12:15:22 PM
SLU seems to be more offensive minded in the second half of their games.  Take a look at these stats.
(not including Canton game)
                                   first half          second half
SLU/Opponent (goals)       6/6                    11/6
win-loss-tie (by half)        2-2-6                  5-1-4  (only loss was in 2nd half was to Hartwick, a game they won)

Last 6 games (goals)         3/3                     5/2     
win-loss-tie                     1-1-4                 3-0-3

What do you all think about why this has occurred?  Random? They're tactics change?  Never say die attitude?  I have my thoughts.  Curious what everyone else thinks.  Note that SLU scores more in the second half but the opponents do not.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 07, 2022, 01:16:40 PM
I think it's a combination of things.  They've given up goals early in the first half which leads me to believe that's a tactical issue and thus they adjust.   I also think it's a result of SLU's possession style and tremendous fitness levels.  In the Clarkson game I noticed that despite the frequent substitutions Clarkson looked tired in the last 15 minutes and SLU did not seem fatigued at all.  Partly why I do miss OT, in the Durocher years SLU won a lot of OT games due to being in great shape, and that was during the back to back league play days where that dynamic was more prevalent.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 07, 2022, 02:58:45 PM
That is because in Coach Durochers time he trained his footballers like they were from Rocky fighters, catching chickens and riding bikes . Tried to turn them into machines. Only team I recall ever matching our  (fitness level) when I played was a team called Norwich, a military school full of well drilled athletes. Fitness is big in football. It's not like Fifa where you hit the triangle button and get players to move fast. Everyone socks when they are tired. The trick is to train your body to not become tired.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on October 08, 2022, 07:10:29 AM
It's been a while since i've posted but have been a long time lurker on the site. 

I think the reason that SLU is better late in games is not necessarily that they have better fitness than all other teams (although often they probably do). It has more to do with their possession style of play where they let the ball do the work.  Defending against a team that is constantly moving the ball requires two main things, discipline and fitness.  When you tire and the fitness breaks down the discipline declines even more rapidly.  With today's technology I would bet that if both Clarkson and SLU wore GPS trackers you would have found that the Clarkson players likely ran 20% more than the SLU players and likely at greater exertion rates.  I think this is why SLU is so dangerous late in games, their style simply wears other teams out.

As a former player for Clarkson I do want to throw a few things out there.  I think this years team deserves a lot of credit and may or may not deserve their current ranking. I think they deserve to be where they are in the polls (or at least in the RV category nationally) right now.  Whether they have overachieved and will regress is the question. Currently they have a lot of positives and a few areas that haven't yet developed.

Going back to preseason prognostication I would have agreed that having them outside the top 6 was appropriate based on last season, but I think some of the reasons people would put them their is more due to an over reliance on their performance in the early 2000's/2010's with some of the recent successes seen as outliers.  This is where I disagree (mostly with Saint of Old) that Clarkson is a bottom tier team that can win a game or two against Bard or Union. I think this also greatly dismisses the job that Carter Lincoln has done while at Clarkson (both as an assistant and head coach). Carter was an assistant in 2015 and 2016, left for year and came back as head coach in 2018.  I don't think he gets nearly enough credit for how well he can get a team to defend.  He got to Clarkson in 2015 and in the off season worked on team defending and in 2016 they allowed 13 goals (0.81/gm).  When he left they went to 22 (1.22) in 2017 but then once he returned they allowed 10 (0.59/gm) in 2018 and 16(0.80/gm) in 2019 on a team that lost the LL championship game on an own goal. In 2021 (no 2020 season) they struggled allowing 24 goals (1.5/gm) and had 4 games with the result decided in the last 2-3 minutes of the game.  I would see 2021 as the outlier for a team that has steadily progressed under Carter Lincoln. Now in 2022 they have conceded 2 goals in 10 games so I think it is safe to say that this is a program that is starting to show that they can defend with 3 or 4 seasons in the past 5 with a goals against under 1.

Back to this years team.  I haven't been able to see as many games as I would like as I am coaching during most game times.  I did see them play both games at CNU/VA Wesleyan and they are a well organized team that plays their system very well.  They currently haven't found a consistent threat on the offensive end and will likely live or die going forward on their ability to find players to step up and put the ball in the back of the net.  This lack of a consistent offensive threat would support them regressing to the mean and dropping a few more games and finishing mid-table in LL.  But on the opposite side, one thing that I think is overlooked is that they have gone on this run with many of the key pieces being freshman who are just starting to become fully comfortable at the college level.  Both keepers are freshman and are legit - look for them to be future stars in the LL.  They start freshman as their primary central defender and ball distributing center midfielder and both are very skilled players who will make themselves known far and wide if they continue to progress at the same rate.  They have also been getting a few goals from a freshman striker who seems to be showing signs of emergence as that offensive threat.  This freshman class is clearly a gem and if Carter builds on them with another few classes this will be a program to watch.

I hope they maintain their current defensive form and find a consistent offensive threat or two and earn a spot atop the league and avenge the tourney snub from 2019 (yes i'm still bitter on that one).  Also glad the conversation has picked up some on this thread.  Look forward to hearing more and letting the rest of the season play out as it looks like a wide open filed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 08, 2022, 01:52:03 PM
Nice post CU.  Agree CU was robbed in 2019 and that based on their freshman class their future is so bright they have to wear shades.  Game of the day Skidmore v. Vassar.  Fast fact--Vassar hasn't lost at Saratoga since 2008.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 08, 2022, 02:17:39 PM
Howler from Skid's 5th year keeper to put Vassar up  :o
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 08, 2022, 04:01:21 PM
Maybe the defensive player of the week went to his head, but the first goal given up by Skidmore's keeper was absolutely atrocious goaltending.  A slow ground ball that rolls through his hands.  The gift allows Vassar to secure a tie.  Between the Clarkson/SLU tie and this one we have learned zilch about which of the four teams atop the LL is the best. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 08, 2022, 05:05:05 PM
So a few different thoughts from all of you about fitness levels and some tactical adjustments.  CU had an excellent take where SLU's possession game wears their opponents down.  These reasons as well as the kids at SLU are tough and work hard not to lose.  They just don't give up.  Coach Tosh seems to love these kids and they respond for him and each other.   But I feel that the main reason is as stlawus stated is tactical.  I believe that they want to possess and limit risk.  They will forego lower percentage chances of through balls, passes over the top, or even putting direct kicks from distance into the box.  Once the second half moves along and SLU needs a goal, they take more chances.  This results in more direct play, more scoring opportunities, more goals, but exactly the same amount of goals conceded.  I'd like to see them put more pressure on their opponents from the start.  SLU has an excellent offense.  Pipers can score from the 18, Miles and Saint Maximus are as dynamic and dangerous as any players in the conference.  When Marvin moves forward, he can set up his teammates with precision through balls or score himself, and the freshman Ryan (6) is a tough scrappy player who is causing problems for the defense, especially on fast breaks.  I think they have the best offense in the conference.  For SLU, I think the best defense may be their offense.  Don't get me wrong, their defense has been good, and Woelfinger has been an excellent goalie and leader, but I think if they are more aggressive in the first half, they will score, and it will make things much easier on them, will force their opponents to open up their game, which will give SLU the opportunity to score even more with what I believe is an explosive offense.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 08, 2022, 05:58:03 PM
Great observation Saint Pop.
Saints were just outshot 19-8 by RIT and still won 4-0.

They dont shoot just to shoot or attack without purpose.

Coach Tosh has a good vibe going in the camp.

That game against Vassar coming up will tell us where both teams are.

I have always had a lot of respect for Clarkson. When I played, every team in the league made the 1- step to play CU and SLU on Route 11.
No one wanted to ever play CU. Kids like the Secko brothers were pure Ballers.

I had CU outside my top 6 mainly due to their recent run in the league (except 20109).
In 2019 the committee gave Ithaca the at large bid (because Bombers got snubbed in 2018).

Dont get me wrong, the start that CU has is impressive, and I agree with their national ranking is well deserved.
Still, it isa very difficult league we are in. CU started the season 7 games shut out everyone, but have given up a goal in 3 straight LL games.
There are also other tough tests coming up against desperate teams who need points to qualify in the league.

League still wide open, but those  last two #5and  #6 spots is going to be crazy this year for who will get in.
If you get in, you can win.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 08, 2022, 06:08:48 PM
It will be interesting to see how the route 11 fixtures next weekend play out.  Last year SLU made the trip downstate and burned themselves out by scraping out a very tough 2-1 win against Bard.  They had no legs against Vassar the following day and played perhaps their worst game of the year.   I've seen this happen not only in soccer but also in basketball as SLU has played some of their worst games of the last 10 years @Vassar in hoops.  Now Vassar/Bard are making the trip up for the back to back fixtures. I get the feeling the Saturday games are going to be grinders.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 09, 2022, 01:19:35 PM
Bard's status as Vassar's traveling partner has always been a ball and chain for Vassar doing the back to backs with SLU and Clarkson.  The Bard game is generally a gimme for SLU.  Bard has finished last in every year it has been in the league.  It has not won a league game since 2016 and has three league wins in its history.  That Bard was able to challenge a mediocre SLU team last year that made a miraculous league run with a ton o luck, especially in the RPI game where it was outshot 23-8 and out possessed about 70-30, does not change the general dynamic that Vassar is at a significant disadvantage when it plays SLU in the second game of the back to back.  This will especially be true this year where Vassar's first game will be against an excellent Clarkson team.  In many past years the Clarkson side did not represent near the challenge that it will next week.  If Vassar runs the gauntlet next weekend it deserves to win league and the teams that make the semis can enjoy playing on one of the most idyllic grass pitches in the country at Gordon.  Saturday's matchup between two SLU coaches will be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 09, 2022, 02:27:13 PM
I guess I never really put into perspective how bad Bard has been in men's soccer.  3 wins and 86 losses in the league, ouch.   They are a great fit academically, but men's soccer isn't the only sport where they have struggled in.   Vassar took a few years to get their feet under them when they joined, but it's been over a decade now with Bard.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 09, 2022, 07:16:48 PM
Bard is going to shock someone this season.
I don't know who and I  hope it's not the Saints but they will punch someone. It is tough. Bard had a coach trying to build up the  program a while back who suddenly and sadly passed away suddenly.
This is also a very difficult league and switching leagues is tough. Hamilton just finding themselves in NESCAC and they have been there for a decade or so.... I think the fact that the LL is mostly a 1 bid and sometimes rarely 2 bid league really has ppl underestimate the strength on the LL. Bard will get better and the entire league will be better as a result. They do beat quality non-league opponents, but football is 90% confidence, as an individual and as a team
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 10, 2022, 01:31:08 PM
Definitely an advantage for SLU this year with Clarkson being a strong team, especially compared to Bard.  Hopefully SLU will come out attacking against Bard and put a few on the  board in the first half in order to rest the starters and be ready for Vassar the following day.
Weekly rankings come out tomorrow.  Any predictions?  I assume Cortland will move to number 1 in the region.  Will SLU move to 2 ahead of Oneonta?  Brockport now has a big lead in the SUNYAC.  Will SLU reach the top 25 nationally?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 10, 2022, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on October 10, 2022, 01:31:08 PM
Definitely an advantage for SLU this year with Clarkson being a strong team, especially compared to Bard.  Hopefully SLU will come out attacking against Bard and put a few on the  board in the first half in order to rest the starters and be ready for Vassar the following day.
Weekly rankings come out tomorrow.  Any predictions?  I assume Cortland will move to number 1 in the region.  Will SLU move to 2 ahead of Oneonta?  Brockport now has a big lead in the SUNYAC.  Will SLU reach the top 25 nationally?


I doubt SLU cracks the top 25 but might receive votes.  Never underestimate Rochester staying high in the regional rankings.  I could see SLU at 2 but Oneonta still has the head to head result, although that still didn't stop Cortland being above SLU despite SLU having the head to head result, a road win no less (Cortland does have a tougher schedule).    Brockport definitely cracks top 4.    Manhattanville might sneak in again.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 10, 2022, 06:45:36 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 10, 2022, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on October 10, 2022, 01:31:08 PM
Definitely an advantage for SLU this year with Clarkson being a strong team, especially compared to Bard.  Hopefully SLU will come out attacking against Bard and put a few on the  board in the first half in order to rest the starters and be ready for Vassar the following day.
Weekly rankings come out tomorrow.  Any predictions?  I assume Cortland will move to number 1 in the region.  Will SLU move to 2 ahead of Oneonta?  Brockport now has a big lead in the SUNYAC.  Will SLU reach the top 25 nationally?


I doubt SLU cracks the top 25 but might receive votes.  Never underestimate Rochester staying high in the regional rankings.  I could see SLU at 2 but Oneonta still has the head to head result, although that still didn't stop Cortland being above SLU despite SLU having the head to head result, a road win no less (Cortland does have a tougher schedule).    Brockport definitely cracks top 4.    Manhattanville might sneak in again.   
I honestly hope SLU does not crack the 25 poll. My best case scenario is that they are #3 in the region with a shot at an atlarge without actually being in the top 25.
All the national ranking does is put a target on your back.
I dont think that the programs that have won it care too much about the ranking, for everyone else it is kinda cool to get ranked 1 or in the top 10, but then again, that comes with the added pressure as well.
Clarkson were ranked nationally for a good part of the season and it caused them to face some extra fire I'm sure.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 11, 2022, 01:05:00 PM
Looks like SLU got the number 2 spot in the region.  Hopefully they can do well this weekend and stay up.  Brockport finally gets on the top. And as stlawus said, SLU got some votes for top 25.  If they win them both this weekend, I assume they will show up.  Either way, a great showing so far this year.  Looks like a couple of nice days forecasted for both days as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 12, 2022, 10:18:39 AM
On the Vassar/Bard thing - and I admit I'm a Bard guy - Vassar and Bard didn't enter the Liberty League at the same time. Vassar joined in 2000-01, Bard joined in 2011-12. That said, Bard's three wins in this many years is horrible.

Vassar had many lean years in those first 10 in the LL - and in 2012 went 4-3-1 in conference play and pulled off a pair of upsets to win the league title. That changed everything for the Brewers.

I think Bard has the right coach in place, and even though this year's roster is probably the best they've put out there, that doesn't mean W's in the Liberty League. It's a painfully slow process but they'll get there with this guy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 12, 2022, 04:29:57 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on October 12, 2022, 10:18:39 AM
On the Vassar/Bard thing - and I admit I'm a Bard guy - Vassar and Bard didn't enter the Liberty League at the same time. Vassar joined in 2000-01, Bard joined in 2011-12. That said, Bard's three wins in this many years is horrible.

Vassar had many lean years in those first 10 in the LL - and in 2012 went 4-3-1 in conference play and pulled off a pair of upsets to win the league title. That changed everything for the Brewers.

I think Bard has the right coach in place, and even though this year's roster is probably the best they've put out there, that doesn't mean W's in the Liberty League. It's a painfully slow process but they'll get there with this guy.


Kostecky's pedigree is second to very few.  If there is someone to build a sustainable competitive program it's him.  Last year Bard had a really good season in baseball, so it's clear that it's not for a lack of resources/facilities etc.  Men's basketball has gotten a lot better since their early days as well (no I'm not still upset Bard beat SLU at the buzzer last year I swear), so I see no reason why men's soccer can't right the ship.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 12, 2022, 07:38:44 PM
Anything less than 4npoints fornClarkson this weekend could be really bad news for their qualification hopes.
Vassar and SLU 4 poi ts might mean solidifying a Semi Final spot.
Skidmore horses look like they are at the races this season. Unknowns are Ithaca, RPI, Hobart. RIT and Union still in with a shot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 13, 2022, 01:15:28 PM
Saint:  I know you have been pulling for the Raptors for many years with the hope that they start moving up the table.  It continues to be difficult.  In 2015 they were supposed to be in the running for an ECAC post season bid if they could just reach .500  They had the two leading scorers in the league that year.  Bard just needed to prevail in their last game against Vassar--they lost 5-0.  Clarkson and SLU have three points for sure this weekend and one or both will have four or more barring a Vassar sweep.  If Vassar does win out they will be in the driver's seat.  My current prediction for bottom 4--Bard, Union, Ithaca who can't score goals, and RIT for being the most under-achieving team since I don't know. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 14, 2022, 03:53:41 PM
I think that RIT is going to get that 6th spot over Clarkson.
I know my man Golden Knight will kill me for saying this, but I just dont think CU has figured out the league yet.
Maybe after today I have to eat my words, but hey thats football.
RIT has come back to earth, and there is still time for them to right the ship, if not then no more overseas trips in the near future.

Hobart and RPI seem to be in a similar boat, no one doubts they will get into the tourney, but no one knows just how good they are either once they get there.
Skidmore is a different animal, a horse, they are fighting Vassar and Slu for league dominance.
We will know a whole lot more after this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2022, 04:51:40 PM
Based on today's first half my prediction was right—Vassar and Clarkson in a sogfight and SLU having a walk in the park. Vassar will have to play smart, gutty soccer to get a result tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 14, 2022, 06:40:20 PM
As an outsider, today's results in the LL across the board strike me as very disappointing...and not just because of all the draws, but rather no one stepping up and standing out.  Like who other than maybe SLU is truly deserving of a Pool C?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 14, 2022, 07:39:36 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 14, 2022, 06:40:20 PM
As an outsider, today's results in the LL across the board strike me as very disappointing...and not just because of all the draws, but rather no one stepping up and standing out.  Like who other than maybe SLU is truly deserving of a Pool C?
I can see that point of view, but also consider that this is a league of parity through atleast the top 8 teams.
I still think that the LL should be atleast a 2 bid league.
Everyone is also starting to become desperate.
RPI, Skidmore and Hobart suddenly getting caught up in the scrum, Vassar might join them unless they win at SLU tomorrow.
Clarkson in a must win tomorrow.
Union and RIT  is still alive.
St, Lawrence also has 4 ties on the season and a few more blemishes would take them out of Pool C conversation unless they win the league tourney.

I think the fact that the 5 Seed won the tournament and went to the dance last season tells you just how tough this league really is.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 14, 2022, 08:02:17 PM
I hope you're right, Saint.  I'd love to see the LL get 3 bids.  But there are different kinds of parity, and I'm not sure this one is the good kind.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2022, 08:18:38 PM
I have to agree with Paul on this one.  None of today's results were impressive.  SLU gives up 2 goals to Bard at home in a one win victory.  Obvious trap game but still...  Vassar ties Clarkson, a team that Saint picks will not make the LL tourney.  Skidmore ties due to an own goal by Ithaca (whose own goal against SLU led to a SLU win).  And these teams are the best of the lot.  That being said, tomorrow's Vassar-SLU game has the makings of a classic.  SLU Head Coach v. SLU former Assistant.  SLU can basically clinch the regular season title with a win.  Likewise, a Vassar win gives them the head to head for teams with strikingly similar records at this juncture.  Two great midfielders in Sibanda and Fauth.  I shudder to think what a tie does if the end of the regular season standings come down to tie-breakers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 15, 2022, 08:02:12 AM
Saint Maxima always has that extra little bit of speed and quickness that a player in the #7 shirt should.
I have predicted that Bard will bite someone this year, was almost SLU last night.  They will be pumped for the game today against Clarkson.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on October 15, 2022, 09:12:18 AM
As far as Clarkson and their chances, I don't take exception to Saint. I think Clarkson is largely a work in progress who played above their current abilities early in the season and is capable of winning or losing (or more likely drawing) against any team in the league on any given day.  I think they got the few bounces this year that they didn't get last year.  Clarkson is largely a solid defensive team that is difficult to break down. I don't see them as a park the bus style team who only tries to hold on and hope for a counter attack goal.  I feel as though they try to play teams straight up with an emphasis on getting players back behind the ball when they lose possession. They currently lack an established goal scorer or offensive threat with top 2 scorers having 4 pts each and next 2 having 3 pts each.  The questions isn't can they defend, but can they score enough to win (and not draw) games.  I agree this is a must win for them as based on previous seasons it takes 11-13 points to make the LL tourney and without OT it may push closer to 11 going forward (2021 had 8 ties in LL and after 6 games we have 10 already in 2022).  With 6 pts in 6 games I would say they need to win 2 of next 3 (Bard and Union at the bottom of the table being the next 2 games) to have a good shot.  going 1-0-2 may do the trick depending on number of draws while 1-1-1 would likely put them on the wrong side of the line.

As far as not having figured out this league, I can't say I agree.  I think they have figured out what they need to do to be a consistent mid-league team and are experiencing the ups and downs of establishing themselves in that space. I think Clarkson has traditionally (late 80's through 2000 and then in the past 6-7 years) been a solid team who every once in a while gets a special player or group of players that pushes them higher (Larry Martin, Mike Kirmse, Matt Nachman, Secko's, Michael King, James Homan, Ian Roeloffs, etc.) for a season or two. I think they have shown a lot of growth over the past few years and have had some very good teams (such as 2019). I think they have clearly separated themselves from Bard and Union at the bottom and I see them pushing themselves into a group with Skidmore, RIT and possibly Ithaca (post coaching change) of teams who have had stints toward the top of the league but no long term success. To me this is a big leap forward when you compare it to the 2000-2015 teams.  I think they have the right staff in place and better support from the university to establish themselves as a mid-tier team and work towards establishing the winning tradition that moves them towards the top.

With regard to LL and the NCAA tournament I see it as league with a lot of parity (as someone noted, not necessarily in a good way) that gets inconsistent results against out of conference foes.  I think you could put the middle part of this league against the middle part of most leagues (except maybe NESCAC and UAA) and get good results due to the depth of the league.  The LL just doesn't have the clear top of the table team that many leagues have.  Without an established front runner it keeps everyone in the mix.  I think in some ways this hurts - for a league like the MAC, Messiah is a clear tourney team and then the conversation falls to who is the potential next team to contend for a tourney nod.  With the LL it is jumble all season long with multiple teams being able to make a case for a bid. I also think results in the NCAA's matter.  If the LL champ regularly went to the final four then I think more teams would get the benefit of the doubt, but if we don't see many LL teams playing the second weekend it support the one bid notion. I think this  is the case with the SUNYAC where Oneonta (and to a lesser extent Cortland) elevate the the league to a potential 3-4 bid conference.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 15, 2022, 10:07:59 AM
^^^^^^I don't have a rooting interest here, but I totally appreciate this post.  Straightforward, detailed and most importantly exceedingly honest and fair.

I think the conference to analyze in terms of bids from the LL perspective is the Centennial.  My gut reaction is that the Centennial generally has been stronger at the top and in the middle of the pack in comparison with the LL.  Hopkins and F&M typically have been at the top with cameos of various lengths by other teams towards the top like Haverford a few years ago, Muhlenberg a while back, and Dickinson, Swat and Gettysburg from time to time.  BUT, is the Centennial five bids to one bid better than the LL?  No, I don't think so.  In my recollection the cmte usually has been pretty generous with the Centennial and especially last year with five bids with UAA also getting five and NESCAC only four.  For another comparison closer to home for me the NCAC usually gets two and sometimes three bids.  Over the last decade the NCAC with Kenyon and OWU probably has been better at the very top (and now Denison is making a push), but once you get past those three I would say the LL top to bottom is stronger than the NCAC.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 15, 2022, 04:19:20 PM
Fairly even game between SLU and Vassar.  Yet another game where SLU hits the crossbar in the final 10 minutes.  Wind was ridiculous, can't remember a game with such extreme wind conditions. 

Great result for RIT today given RPI's stumble against Hobart.  Hobart now sitting in 3rd place. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 15, 2022, 10:37:30 PM
I agree with stlawus.  It's good to see McDougald and Mogul (Saint Maximus) back in action.  It only took them 14 seconds to combine for the goal against Vassar today.  Quite some nifty footwork and through ball by Mogul to see Mcdougald through for a nice finish.   It's also important for the team to be deeper, especially with the Friday then Sunday conference championship and potential NCAA weekend.  SLU was giving Bard a little too much respect in my opinion.  With SLU's strong offense I would love to see them attack more often, especially over the top to the wings as they seem to be open as their opponents get sucked in to SLU's possession game from the back.  Marvin can set these up beautifully.  It looks like it will come down to the last couple games with 5 teams still in the running to win the conference.  Note the new format of the conference tournament this year with number 1 and 2 seeds hosting the semifinal on Friday, with the final at the highest remaining seed on Sunday.  A very strange call in the closing minutes of SLU Vassar game today.  Mogul was taken down and ref points to the spot, only to have a discussion with AR and overturned.  All this with no VAR!  Was looking forward to watching Marvin bury it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 15, 2022, 10:44:49 PM
It looked like Toshack is still easing Mogul and McDougald back in given their injuries.  Both were subbed off with 15 minutes left in the first half and again in the 2nd half, only for Mogul to come back on when Campbell cramped.  Can't disagree with the decision, as both still look to be about 80-90%.  A full week before the next game should get them back to full speed. 

There are quite a few scenarios in the next two weeks.  SLU ultimately controls most of their fate, but it could come down to a tiebreaker with Vassar and also SLU's result against Hobart on the final day of the regular season.  Skidmore is going to be out for blood next week after today's result, and Hobart continues their enigmatic season setting themselves up as a dangerous wild card.  Skidmore can't overlook Union on Wednesday. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 16, 2022, 08:27:42 PM
How did Skidmore get dragged back into the war for qualification?
To me it seems like 3 spots might already be locked, but still 5 teams fighting for 3 spots.

Just a reminder that the 5th seed won last year so if you are good enough to make the tourney then you are good enough to win.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 17, 2022, 03:14:29 PM
Union and Bard are out.  Everyone else has a shot for the tourney and it appears SLU, Vassar and Hobart are fighting for the top spot.  SLU and Hobart control their own fate.  If Hobart wins out it picks up wins against SLU and Vassar.  Whether the most mercurial team in the league can put together a run has yet to be seen.  SLU can't be happy with Vassar result.  Playing at home against a gassed Brewer squad who were able to come from behind Clarkson by scoring a header off a corner, SLU allows Vassar to do the same to them.  SLU went into an 89 minute, 46 second scoring drought after picking up a goal in the first 14 seconds.  A second quick goal effectively ends the game but it was not to be.  I think the recalled second half penalty was because the ball had crossed the endline before the foul was committed, thus SLU was awarded a corner.  Can't assume Marvin makes the penalty--see Clarkson/SLU box score.  Will be interesting to see how the NCAA selection committee views all of these ties. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 18, 2022, 11:40:45 AM
Some good comments Deutschfan.  Strangely, re the penalty called back, I heard it was originally called a hand ball and that was overruled by the AR, saying he touched it with his head. The entire play was strange.  I never saw anyone dive for the ball on the ground with their head before.  And you brought up corner kick.  What do you all think of how SLU plays their corners?  They seem to go short every time.  Even direct kicks go short and not in the box, unless the game or half is coming to a close.  Contrarily, all three goals against SLU this weekend came from either a corner or long direct kicks into the box.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 19, 2022, 11:53:40 AM
Skidmore v Union tonight.
This could be a tricky game for Skidmore. Theybreally need these three points to get themselves back in the thick of playoff conversation.  Union and Bard must be relishing their potential spoiler role for the remainder of the season. Clarkson/RPI/RIT/Clarkson all hoping that Skidmore drops 2 or three points today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 19, 2022, 03:13:09 PM
SLU, Clarkson and Vassar making the regional rankings.  Not really a major surprise.   Thought Hobart would get in there ahead of New Paltz or Rochester, if they keep stringing wings together they will be.  Although Rochester is pretty much impossible to knock out of the RRs even if they only had 1 win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 19, 2022, 07:49:20 PM
Skidmore not taking  any chances... actually, looks like they are taking all their chances!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 20, 2022, 02:55:39 PM
Pretty impressive game for Skidmore.  Strange results this year.  SLU squeaks by Union, 1-0.  Skidmore beats Union 6-0.  SLU beats RIT 4-0.  Skidmore loses to RIT 2-0.  It should be quite a game this Saturday.
Re SLU, my concern is Marvin.  I believe he got his hand injury in the Union game.  If you take away his two penalty kicks and the direct kick at the RPI game, he has one shot on goal with 18 shots from the Union game on(all conference games).  No goals and one assist.  It seems that he is being used in more of a defensive roll this year, but with 18 shots and only one on goal, I'm assuming the hand is somehow playing a roll.  Hopefully he heals and gets back on track.  With just two conference games remaining, now is the time for him to get his shot back.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 20, 2022, 03:01:52 PM
Marvin looked dangerous in the 2nd half against Vassar, his hand may be affecting him but his ball skills still looked the same.  Ironically last year Reynolds had the same issue and he almost seemed to play better with a cast on his hand.  SLU has always had tough games at Skidmore, it will be a very difficult test.     Hobart and Vassar is also a very high stakes game as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 20, 2022, 08:38:37 PM
Will be very interesting to  to see how both Skidmore and Union respond to their last game.
Skidmore and their star man will look to make a statement against SLU.  Neither team can really afford a loss if they want to be seriously considered for a possible Pool C.

Union plays a Clarkson in need of a win and not looking to get yet another tie. This is also a matter of pride for Union. They are a better team than what showed up midweek and this is a perfect opportunity to prove it.

This will go down as one of the tightest seasons in league history before its all said and done.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 22, 2022, 10:12:30 AM
Two huge games today—SLU/Skidmore and Vassa/Hobart. Skidmore and Hobart both on the outside looking in at the regional rankings. While SLU has the best record they also have a very soft SOS so they are vulnerable there.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 22, 2022, 01:59:59 PM
Howard Mendel.
I have to say in just 45 minutes I have found my favorite play by play man hands down.
He really had me at hello, but the man is respectful of the game and players, witty, articulate, passionate, definitely a Bard fan but does not over do it and most of all positive with regards to the team and the project being created at Bard.

Bardians should be proud.

As for the game. The Bard team is giving as good as it gets.
This is what college football is all about.
Pride.
These boys are playing for the alum, their families and themselves and are leaving it all out there.
Bard wants their first league win since the shootout at the OK Coral and RIT were many people's pre-season favorites (including mine) dont want to see the season end during the regular season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 22, 2022, 02:49:26 PM
Saint you are so sentimental. Hobart is dominating Vassar in a scoreless game. I am sure coach reminded the Statesmen that their fate is in their hands.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 22, 2022, 02:52:14 PM
Spoke too soon. Vassar picks up a late first half goal 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 22, 2022, 05:11:29 PM
Congrats to St. Lawrence.  Only way they don't win league is if they lose to Hobart and Vassar beats both Ithaca and RPI.  Heartbreak for Clarkson.  Gives up two goals in last 10 minutes to lose 4-3 to lowly Union.  They will be out of next week's regional rankings, they lose any hope of a Pool C, their crazy good defensive statistics take a major hit, and they put their LL tourney spot in jeopardy.  About as bad a 10 minutes as you can have.  The premonitions that Clarkson might implode were right on.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 22, 2022, 05:25:31 PM
Vassar now has 4 straight draws.  Hobart is playing like a typical Griffin coached team, might stumble a bit the first half of the season but his coaching prowess keeps them in the mix come the end of the year.

Agreed on Clarkson, that was brutal loss.  2 quick goals to take the lead and then implode.   

The final 2 playoff spots are up for grabs.  RPI needs a win to secure a spot, so that midweek game could be tricky for Vassar.

The good news for SLU is that they finally look healthy with McDougald and Mogul seemingly now at 100%. The added bonus for today's game was that Tosh managed the minutes of the midfield and strikers as they have a non-con game against Plattsburgh Tuesday.  Absorbed a lot of Skidmore pressure, but secured the 3 points with a fresh squad going forward.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 22, 2022, 05:56:41 PM
Hats off to St. Lawrence. These young men deserve  alot of credit.
The job is no where done yet, and all they have really done is set expectations high, and must deliver.

Over the past few seasons, I have not been shy about voicing concerns, but  playing 15 games and only losing 1 (on the road by a goal to Oneonta)  is not bad.
There are three things that have led to this team's success so far.

1. the 2021 season- No way these guys should have won the league and make it to the dance as a 5th seed, but they managed to do it. That late season charge to the title did a lot for the team's overall confidence.

2. Coach Tosh has been in the liberty league longer than anyone. He started in the league the year BIG dropped his Ready to Die LP.
He has a firm grip on the league and showed it with that 2021 run.

3. They have the only CADAM I have ever seen in the league. The Saint 10 plays the (Center Attacking Defensive Attacking Midfielder) role.
Kid is not only the best player in the league, but is sacrificing big parts of his game to help the team.

Trying to not get overly sentimental and just spit facts, but a real good bunch of Saints here.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 23, 2022, 12:52:30 AM
Well said Saint of Old.  And yes, Marvin has been playing more of a defensive roll this year but is also very dangerous on the offense.  He controls the game.  The only thing he seemed to be unsuccessful at today was getting a yellow card.  More of the Saints are stepping up.  Peacock is tough on defense.  Shane Hauck and Antonio Rogliano get on the scoreboard.  And with Mogul and Mcdougald back to health, they have a rotation that keeps the players fresh, especially with tenacious first year Ryan Campbell proving himself in Mogul's absence.  My only concern is set pieces.  The last three games saw four goals against SLU on set pieces (none in the run of play), versus 6 goals for SLU in the run of play (none from set pieces).  With Cortland losing to Oneonta, we may see SLU number one in the region and top 20 in the national poll.  Will two wins this week guarantee them a pool C if they stumble in the conference tournament?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 23, 2022, 01:12:30 AM
When it comes to the Liberty League there is no such thing as a pool C guarantee.  Many an expected pool C berth has gotten the shaft over the past decade.   2 wins would certainly bolster the resume, but a loss to a low seeded team in the conference tournament could make them sweat. 

Good point on set pieces, I was thinking about that today.  Probably the team's most glaring weakness.  SLU fans aren't used to seeing that given the days of Copeland and Laird winning practically every set piece ball for the better part of a decade.

I still see Cortland atop the regional rankings given their blowout of Brockport on the road.  Hobart likely supplants Clarkson's spot. 

And as always, never underestimate Rochester's ability to remain high in the regional rankings no matter their record.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on October 23, 2022, 01:45:18 PM
Man I really wish I could watch Rochester play....it is to far of a drive and I can't afford it either
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldNed on October 23, 2022, 02:11:15 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on October 23, 2022, 01:45:18 PM
Man I really wish I could watch Rochester play....it is to far of a drive and I can't afford it either
They've got 3 remaining games, all away, so you should have a chance to catch Rochester play as it appears all 3 will be streamed:

Oct 28 (Fri) 5:00 pm
at Case Western

Oct 30 (Sun) 11:00 AM
at Carnegie Mellon

Nov 5 (Sat) 11:00 AM
at  Emory University
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2022, 06:05:17 PM
Tidy little 3 game win streak for RIT to vault into 4th place for now.  They get Union next which we now know will be no easy out given that the Dutchmen seem happy to play spoiler.   RIT could be getting hot at the right time. 

In non-con play SLU gets about as optimal a result as they could have hoped for.   Rested the top dogs and still came away with a 3-0 win against a decent Plattsburgh side.  Managed the game well in the 2nd half to keep the clean sheet.  I can see how Plattsburgh came back on Cortland, they have a few impressive players and of course have a coach who is no stranger to the Liberty League.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2022, 07:29:44 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 31, 2022, 09:25:01 PM
I am not putting too much confidence in RIT because they had an overseas trip.
I think the bonding and playing against unorthodox competition can help a team, but can also be overblown.

I rate them highly because I think it just might be their time.
SLU have their history
Vassar has had some great years, Clinton and his RPI boys just had a memorable year to go with a few more.
Hobart was flying high a few years back and might be again,  but RIT never seem to have had that run.
Always playing well, but under achieving since the inception of the LL that is.

They are also playing on the Coach DOUG MAY field this year.
For those that dont know, Doug May is the GOAT the GOATS think is the GOAT.
Had an a major impact on RIT/Nazareth and many coaches plying their trade over the past few decades. A true icon.

Those boys will be playing with an extra fire this season and are returning some ballers.
I too have them finishing #1.

#2 is very tough. I think that RPI gets the nod due to who they are returning
SLU is in at #3 as they are defending champs and really could have been 2 as well.
Hobart will finish #4 and surprise a few people along the way. Ithaca at 5 but could win the tourney as well and Skidmore 6.

This will be an interesting season and as we have seen last year anyone who makes the tournament has a shot at dancing.

One game to go (mostly) and only 3 teams safe. Wow.

1. SLU*
2.Vassar*
3. Hobart*
4.RIT
5.Skidmore
6. RPI
Clarkson HAS to beat RPI
That Clarkson RPI game will be the game of the season for sure on Saturday. Loser of this game might have to start planning for 2023.
Ithaca HAS to beat Vassar and hope
Union Got a taste of the spoiler role last week against Clarkson and loves it. They would love to beat RIT and spoil their season while getting a second league upset.
Speaking of spoilers. Bard could prove me right and potentially end Skidmore's season with a win as well.

Lots going on here folks! It will be a wild ride.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 26, 2022, 03:29:53 PM
Regional rankings are a bit perplexing.  These will likely change some next week, but it seems like SOS is pretty much the only factor being used these days.  The championship manual should be updated to reflect this, because looking at the RRs across all regions it's clear no one is valuing results vs common opponents and W%.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: paclassic89 on October 26, 2022, 03:33:56 PM
I've been complaining about the SOS issue for years.  It also seems to be inconsistent across regions.  It's frustrating  >:(
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 26, 2022, 07:13:40 PM
SLU IN (Could be 1st or 2nd seed)
Vassar IN (Could be 1st or2nd seed)
Hobart IN
RIT IN
Skidmore IN (Well, Basically In)
RPI (SWEATING)
CLARKSON (SWEATING)
ITHACA (LUCKY  to be SWEATING)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2022, 07:57:20 PM
It is cool and appropriate that the league title will be decided on the last day of the regular season. Even though Ithaca is the site of perhaps the worst collapse in Vassar soccer history in 2018 losing 4-3 after leading 3-0, and even though Ithaca's win last year in Poughkeepsie seriously dented Vassar's Pool C hopes, I expect Vassar to beat the Ithaca barely scoring bombers on Saturday.  It seems that the fact that about 80% of Vassar's league goals are off of set services in the box still hasn't caught the attention of their LL opponents or there would be better marking all around.  See today's RPI game.  SLU will need a result against Hobart to win league.  For how many years has that been true?  This SOS issue must be very frustrating for SLU faithful.  Vassar loses all three games against top 25 opponents and seems to have been rewarded for the losses.  It is certainly possible that given SLU's current Regional Ranking they will not get a Pool C especially if they pick up an early tourney loss.  How Rochester, and Vassar, currently can be ranked ahead of SLU is quite perplexing.  Finally, Saint still has a chance for the Daily Double, picking RIT to finish 1st and then not making the tournament, and picking Vassar not to make the tournament and then winning the league.  Love you Saint!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 26, 2022, 08:15:39 PM
Big oversight on not having Vassar in the top 6.
You just thought that with a new coach, maybe it would be rough at the start to replace a Vassar Icon.

RIT will make the tourney, I think a few other commentors on here had quite high expectations of them as wall after their team bonding overseas trip...

My other picks seem to be doing well, although RPI might have issues at the end.

With the way Pool C seems to be shaping up, this is rapidly becoming the Patrick Henry ("Give me Liberty or Give me Death") league in the eyes of the committee.

This RPI v. Clarkson game is going to be the most entertaining game to watch all year.

Fan, I do remember that 4-3 game you speak of. Classic liberty league game for the ages that one.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2022, 08:21:10 PM
Yes, I live in a glass house when it comes to RIT.  I really thought they would have a leg up and they proved me way wrong. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 26, 2022, 08:33:46 PM
I just wish the NCAA would be upfront with the criteria.  What is the point of publishing a manual that says SOS, results vs common opponents and win% should all be considered when only SOS drives the rankings?  Certainly SLU needs a few more wins, but this is why I always complain about Rochester.  They share a win with SLU @ Cortland, but besides that what result does Rochester have that puts them above SLU?   They tied RIT who SLU beat 4-0 on the road.   Again, I recognize that these rankings are fluid as there's another few rounds, but if the committees are going to only care about SOS then they need to be transparent about it.

As for Saturday, Ithaca has defended pretty well at home so Vassar will need to be on their A game.  Hobart has always played SLU tough at Sandy.  The last 4 games in Canton have been 1 goal affairs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2022, 09:29:08 PM
StLaw--I feel your pain.  If SOS is the be all and end all the NCAA should say so.  SLU's current ranking makes no sense.  I agree with Saint that RPI/Clarkson is going to be a Donnybrook bringing back memories of 2017 when an overtime Clarkson goal kept RPI out of the LL tournament.  Of course this year we won't have such excitement as the powers that be took OT away from us. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 27, 2022, 10:29:39 PM
Deutschfan, it seems that SLU and Vassar choose different ways to score.  You said that Vassar has scored 80 percent of their goals with service into the box off of set pieces.  I think that SLU has not scored a goal this year on a set piece into the box, although they have scored with service into the box in the air along the run of play.  Most recently with two balls to the head of the ferocious freshman Ryan Campbell.  Also against Union, Marvin sent a long ball into the box with time running out that found the feet of Graber to Pipers.  In the last 10 games SLU has scored 20 goals, one on a PK and the other 19 in the run of play.  Their opponents have only scored 3 goals in the run of play and 5 on set pieces.  19-3 in favor of SLU in the run of play, and 5-0 in favor of their opponents on set pieces (not including PKs).  The main reason SLU has zero is that they don't attempt service into the box, whether a corner kick or a direct kick on the offensive third.  Many times they just recycle.  I believe that Marvin and Miles are two of the best in the conference at service into the box (if they played the ball there) and Campbell has shown his heading prowess.  And with the scoring talents of Pipers, Mogul, and the aggressiveness of Rogliano, I believe they would have had five goals (or more) to match their opponents.  In todays soccer, professional teams are hiring set piece coaches.  Here is hoping Toshak has something up his sleeve to surprise his LL opponents and eventually in the NCAA tournament.  He has done an amazing job with the boys.  If you add the set piece component to this team, I believe they can go all the way to Greensboro.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 27, 2022, 11:38:08 PM
Vassar doesn't have the offensive depth that SLU has with a few tall target players up front for set pieces and Fauth as an effective attacking midfielder.  Sibanda's offensive capabilities from a defensive mid position, as well as the open field capabilities of SLU's attacking players, give SLU the attacking edge.  I really like Sibanda especially given all of the points he could put up if he were a 10 or a 9.  Saint is right about him.  Yet, if Vassar beats Ithaca and Hobart beats SLU, Vassar will win league.  If so, they will have done it with their defense.  Despite the multiple player of the week accolades for SLU's keeper, I am more impressed with Vassar's.  As for Greensboro, as you point out, an effective set piece game is crucial in high level soccer and SLU needs to work on it. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 29, 2022, 03:58:39 PM
So SLU and Vassar finish 1-2, both undefeated with Sibanda and Fauth appropriately getting the game winners.  Both should be locks for Pool Cs (knock on wood). 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 29, 2022, 04:15:34 PM
Congrats to SLU for winning the league.  I hope you are correct deutschfan regarding both SLU and Vassar being locks.  If they face each other in the final and either Cortland or Oneonta win their league tournament, then I think they both will be "dancing."  It was nice to see SLU playing more direct today with Marvin moving up.  If Pipjers was on target today it could have been a lot more.  It looks like they will be playing the winner of the RPI vs RIT game.  RPI gave SLU one of their toughest games this season and SLU was lucky to come out with a tie.  Deutschfan, you mentioned the numbers that Marvin could put up in the 9 or 10 position.  He had 7 shots, 5 on goal, and one goal today.  It will be interesting to see where he plays on Friday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 29, 2022, 04:21:59 PM
Pretty impressive that SLU's coach, and a former SLU assistant go undefeated in League.  First time in Vassar's LL history.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 29, 2022, 07:56:56 PM
Tournament Schedule:
First Round – Tuesday, November 1
#6 Hobart at #3 Skidmore
#5 RIT at #4 RPI

Semifinals – Friday, November 4
#4/#5 winner at #1 St. Lawrence
#3/#6 winner at #2 Vassar
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 29, 2022, 08:29:53 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 19, 2022, 08:43:57 PM
Fan, as usual, you know what you are talking about.
In fairness it takes most players a couple seasons to sort out their feet in college, so for 6 foot 5 guys its really no surprise.

I think SLU will have a good year this season.
The league had a chance to really end the SLU dominance last season and allowed them to win the league from 5th spot (a few seasons ago, they would not even have made the league tourney)

Now you have a Saint team that has won 2 of the past 3 league tourneys despite not having the best year and what could have been an all-time bad season in 2021.

The mentality of these boys are very strong, it had to be to make the dance, but now they have the gasoline that programs and players runs on: CONFIDENCE.

Does not hurt that a top 5 All-time Saint is on the roster as well.
I just knew SLU would have a good year. Any team that should have not even made the league tourney last year but confidence is a hell of a thing!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldNed on October 29, 2022, 08:47:03 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on October 29, 2022, 07:56:56 PM
Tournament Schedule:
First Round – Tuesday, November 1
#6 Hobart at #3 Skidmore
#5 RIT at #4 RPI

Semifinals – Friday, November 4
#4/#5 winner at #1 St. Lawrence
#3/#6 winner at #2 Vassar

Anyone know the game time for the semifinal at SLU on Friday Nov 4?  I'm thinking of heading up from the Hartford CT area if the game isn't too early.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 29, 2022, 08:59:51 PM
GAME TIMES: Default start time for weekday games is 2:30 p.m. (games on unlighted fields). Daylight saving time ends Sunday, Nov. 6, and sunset for Nov. 4 is approximately 5:45. Teams with unlighted fields (both SLU and Vassar) should plan accordingly, allowing time for full overtime and penalty kicks. Default time for games on lighted fields is 4 p.m., but can be adjusted by mutual agreement.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldNed on October 30, 2022, 10:53:39 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on October 29, 2022, 08:59:51 PM
GAME TIMES: Default start time for weekday games is 2:30 p.m. (games on unlighted fields). Daylight saving time ends Sunday, Nov. 6, and sunset for Nov. 4 is approximately 5:45. Teams with unlighted fields (both SLU and Vassar) should plan accordingly, allowing time for full overtime and penalty kicks. Default time for games on lighted fields is 4 p.m., but can be adjusted by mutual agreement.
Thank you!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 30, 2022, 11:13:41 AM
LL should prepare themselves that SLU and Vassar could end up looking light on ranked wins.  A number of teams, including others with very similar resumes, could be impacted by something as seemingly small as Plattsburgh and New Paltz flipping in terms of being regionally ranked.  Would help SLU and hurt Vassar.  Would also give Drew another ranked win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 30, 2022, 11:24:28 AM
I think with an 11-1-5 record in the regular season.
Only loss being a 3-2 away defeat on the road to Oneonta puts SLU in good shape after beating Cortland on the Road and Plattsburgh and a few other quality teams St. Lawrence should be good for a Pool C regardless.
I know we are not U of R but a guy can have hopes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 30, 2022, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 30, 2022, 11:24:28 AM
I think with an 11-1-5 record in the regular season.
Only loss being a 3-2 away defeat on the road to Oneonta puts SLU in good shape after beating Cortland on the Road and Plattsburgh and a few other quality teams St. Lawrence should be good for a Pool C regardless.
I know we are not U of R but a guy can have hopes.

I agree SLU is deserving...probably Vassar too.  I've had SLU in my top 25 for several weeks.  I'd feel better tho if Plattsburgh gets regionally ranked and SLU gets up to two ranked wins.

As for UR, they're down 1-0 at CMU with more than a half to go, but a loss today might put UR out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 30, 2022, 02:02:39 PM
My predictions for the first round games for what it is worth.  RPI prevails over RIT (having watched RIT against SLU and Vassar I can't imagine them getting a result) and Hobart over Skidmore.  While Skidmore has the league's leading scorer, they also have one of the softest goalies.  But for a gift to Vassar, and two SLU rebounds that should have been covered up, Skidmore would be hosting a semifinal.  The semifinal matches are toss-ups.  Hobart just tied Vassar at Poughkeepsie in a very even game and I expect a redux.  The RPI/SLU contest will be a barn burner.  SLU ruined what RPI planned to be a beautiful NCAA run last year led by a bunch of 5th year grad students.  The revenge factor in this game is huge.  If Hobart and RPI made it to the final the LL could have anywhere from 1-3 bids.  I agree with Paul Newman that it is best not to count NCAA chickens even though SLU should be really safe and Vassar is getting there. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 30, 2022, 02:55:55 PM
Quote from: stlawus on June 26, 2022, 04:32:19 PM
I am going to differ from my Laurentian brother and predict that the league will be top heavy with 2 or 3 teams and then everyone else. The league has been snubbed in Pool C in recent years (Ithaca in 2018 comes to mind) so I don't know if I'll go as far as to say 2 teams will make the dance, but I get the feeling there won't be as much parity.    This take will most likely age like milk, but I'm sticking with it.


Close enough, I'll chalk it up as a W on my part!      Only regular season wise, as everyone else has said anyone can get hot in the playoffs.   Deutsch is down on RIT but they've been playing much better lately, I think they'll give RPI a good game with upset potential.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 30, 2022, 03:16:00 PM
Wishful thinking Law. I think SLU would much rather face the team it waxed in the regular season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 30, 2022, 04:07:26 PM
Agreed Deutschfan, RPI is the team to worry about.  They would love to return the favor to SLU after last year.  I'm still hoping SLU takes a corner kick.  I may be beating a dead horse, but I believe they will at least get through the first weekend of the NCAAs if they decide to put corners and free kicks into the box.  With Marvin up front, they played over the top more.  It was nice to see them mixing it up with long diagonal balls to the wings.  Mogul causes a lot of problems when he gets the ball on the wing.  He is pretty much unstoppable when he gets the defender 1 v 1.  Should be an exciting weekend of soccer, hopefully all in Canton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 30, 2022, 04:49:52 PM
Revenge is a dish best served cold.  Vassar also was knocked out of a Pool C by SLU last year but if Vassar and SLU meet in the Final my guess is that they both are in the Dance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 30, 2022, 05:28:36 PM
I looked again, and while I'm sure I'm missing something...

Plattsburgh is not gonna replace New Paltz...NP has the better record, much better SoS, and same RvR of 1-3-1.  I suppose Platt could edge out Clarkson but I'm not sure the numbers work there either.  So, assuming NP stays ranked and Platt isn't...Vassar has a RvR of 1-3-2 or 1-3-1 (if tie with Clarkson drops off.  SLU has a RvR of 1-1-1 which would be 1-1-0 if Clarkson falls out.  SLU has the better record and Vassar has the better SoS. 

The problem (or one of them) with those RvRs is that puts them in that cluster of teams in the NESCAC and elsewhere with very average looking records but equal or higher SoSs and more ranked wins by at least 2 wins.  If Vassar loses their semi they finish 9-4-4 or in final 10-4-4 (presuming not advancing on a draw or "winning" semi on a draw).  Hamilton is 8-4-4 with virtually same SoS and RvR of 3-5-1 (losing another tie assuming Wes drops out).  So two more ranked wins and a larger number of ranked games.  There are at least a handful of other teams around the country with very similar resumes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 30, 2022, 05:32:49 PM
I'll just add that for one of them to get a Pool C the other needs to get the AQ.  If they both fail to get AQ I would guess at least one stays home and very possibly both.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 30, 2022, 09:11:05 PM
The Hamilton comparison is an excellent one.  Other than New Paltz which is a lower regionally ranked team, if it even remains regionally ranked, Vassar has no wins against ranked opponents.  Alternatively Hamilton has wins against Midd, and the two past National Champions Conn and Tufts.  Also, Hamilton has never been to the NCAA tourney since it joined the NESCAC.  Will there be a sentimental aspect when Hamilton is evaluated?  My hope is that there is room enough for both.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LL_Alum on November 01, 2022, 05:14:31 PM
The ref in the RPI-RIT match is having an absolute nightmare... completely misses an RIT player haul an RPI CB down in the box to get open for a cross . Also just generally has completely failed to keep the game under control.

In other news, my stomach is about halfway up my throat right now
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LL_Alum on November 01, 2022, 05:30:27 PM
Quote from: LL_Alum on November 01, 2022, 05:14:31 PM
The ref in the RPI-RIT match is having an absolute nightmare... completely misses an RIT player haul an RPI CB down in the box to get open for a cross . Also just generally has completely failed to keep the game under control.

In other news, my stomach is about halfway up my throat right now

And RIT get a second off a free kick after a horrible call for dangerous play. Unless something drastic happens here, RPI loses their 4th straight LL playoff game in either ET or PKs and has their first losing season since 2006
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 01, 2022, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 30, 2022, 02:55:55 PM
Quote from: stlawus on June 26, 2022, 04:32:19 PM
I am going to differ from my Laurentian brother and predict that the league will be top heavy with 2 or 3 teams and then everyone else. The league has been snubbed in Pool C in recent years (Ithaca in 2018 comes to mind) so I don't know if I'll go as far as to say 2 teams will make the dance, but I get the feeling there won't be as much parity.    This take will most likely age like milk, but I'm sticking with it.


Close enough, I'll chalk it up as a W on my part!      Only regular season wise, as everyone else has said anyone can get hot in the playoffs.   Deutsch is down on RIT but they've been playing much better lately, I think they'll give RPI a good game with upset potential.

Hmmm....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 01, 2022, 05:48:32 PM
Ok, I will eat crow on the RIT/RPI result.  My view was clouded by SLU and Vassar's earlier beat downs of RIT.  I should have put more weight on the fact that RPI hasn't won a home playoff game since 2014 and the last two times they hosted as the No.1 seed they lost in the semis.  I believe this is good news for SLU but what do I know.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 01, 2022, 06:27:56 PM
I just saw LL Alum's earlier posts.  He/she is absolutely right that the dangerous play foul that was called in the second overtime was incredibly soft.  That being said, the service into the box was excellent and RPI's goalie failed to punch the ball or otherwise intercede in the connection.  RIT's fans were far more vociferous than the RPI fans.  I don't know if that was a function of where they were sitting versus the camera or if they were that much more vocal.  They will certainly be traveling to Sandy to cheer RIT on.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 01, 2022, 06:43:34 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 01, 2022, 06:27:56 PM
I just saw LL Alum's earlier posts.  He/she is absolutely right that the dangerous play foul that was called in the second overtime was incredibly soft.  That being said, the service into the box was excellent and RPI's goalie failed to punch the ball or otherwise intercede in the connection.  RIT's fans were far more vociferous than the RPI fans.  I don't know if that was a function of where they were sitting versus the camera or if they were that much more vocal.  They will certainly be traveling to Sandy to cheer RIT on.

I think you got that reversed, the RPI student section were the ones jeering the whole game.  I heard a few clap backs from RIT fans but that was the RPI crowd.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 01, 2022, 06:53:05 PM
My bad.  I thought I heard a bunch of pro-RIT fans and there was a dude with a RIT flag.  I could be 0-2 in my predictions.  Hobart defender shanks a clearance and league's leading scorer finishes the mis-hit.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LL_Alum on November 01, 2022, 07:08:18 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 01, 2022, 06:27:56 PM
I just saw LL Alum's earlier posts.  He/she is absolutely right that the dangerous play foul that was called in the second overtime was incredibly soft.  That being said, the service into the box was excellent and RPI's goalie failed to punch the ball or otherwise intercede in the connection.  RIT's fans were far more vociferous than the RPI fans.  I don't know if that was a function of where they were sitting versus the camera or if they were that much more vocal.  They will certainly be traveling to Sandy to cheer RIT on.

oh absolutely correct on the analysis of the play, the alum side of me chose to ignore that part :))
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 01, 2022, 07:52:51 PM
RIT Costa Rico trip really paying  dividends.
Hats off to Coach Clinton, once again maximizing the talent he had to make another post season.
RIT v SLU
Throw everything out, this is a new season.
SLU knows well how dangerous a 5th seed can be and will be ready.

Vassar v.Skidmore
Skidmore looks good and Vassar has not been beat in the LL all season. I think it ends here for Vassar and Skidmore moves on to the championship game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 01, 2022, 08:23:34 PM
So LL Alum—What is the intel on where Gaudiano was this season?  Saint, I hope you're wrong about the Vassar/Skidmore result but since I am 0-2 in playoff predictions I am not going to proffer a different scenario. I think the Skidmore/Vassar game is a play-in game for the Dance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 01, 2022, 08:53:39 PM
I think you might be right as to the winner dancing.
I do think Vassar has a better shot at this point though.

This league deserves at least 2 bids to the dance. I will keep beating that drum because it is true.

RIT could shock us all and not shock us all at the same time by winning the entire thing and sinking the hopes of all other Pool C hopefuls.
We will see.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 02, 2022, 02:55:09 PM
At least Rochester is out of the RRs but SLU is still behind Vassar despite a better win % and more wins against RR opponents.  Pretty much confirms SoS is the only thing being considered.   Does seem like if SLU and Vassar both make it to Sunday the league should get 2 bids, but we say this most years and it doesn't happen.  However, both games Friday will be tough and I would not be shocked to see chaos.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 02, 2022, 03:26:02 PM
SLU faithful....looks like you are in good shape.  By my count, SLU is now up to 3 ranked wins...Vassar has none or maybe one and multiple ranked losses.  Anyway, obviously Vassar is not the only opponent if it comes to Pool C but the 3 ranked wins with the winning pct record makes SLU much more competitive with teams in other regions in the same range.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 02, 2022, 04:04:30 PM
Yes Paul Newman.  The RR is confusing in that this weeks rankings takes into consideration last weeks ranked teams.  So without any games being played, SLU would most likely move ahead of Vassar with their 3-1-2 record vs RR teams  (they were 1-1-2 based on last weeks teams).  Vassar is 1-2-3 vs current teams in RR.  1-2-1 vs last week.  So you can see that the rankings, based on last weeks records against RR's are similar.  SLU's is much better based on this week and set up well for next weeks rankings.
The LL is deserving of two teams in the tournament. I therefore predict that the winner of the Vassar vs Skidmore game is in the tournament and the other is out.  SLU should be in with a win over RIT.  It gets complicated if both Skidmore and RIT win.  If Skidmore wins tourney, I think SLU will be chosen over Vassar.  If RIT wins, then it's Skidmore.  Of course this all assumes that either Cortland or Oneonta win their division.  Sounds complicated.  Best thing to do is to just win!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 02, 2022, 04:09:36 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on November 02, 2022, 04:04:30 PM
Yes Paul Newman.  The RR is confusing in that this weeks rankings takes into consideration last weeks ranked teams.  So without any games being played, SLU would most likely move ahead of Vassar with their 3-1-2 record vs RR teams  (they were 1-1-2 based on last weeks teams).  Vassar is 1-2-3 vs current teams in RR.  1-2-1 vs last week.  So you can see that the rankings, based on last weeks records against RR's are similar.  SLU's is much better based on this week and set up well for next weeks rankings.
The LL is deserving of two teams in the tournament. I therefore predict that the winner of the Vassar vs Skidmore game is in the tournament and the other is out.  SLU should be in with a win over RIT.  It gets complicated if both Skidmore and RIT win.  If Skidmore wins tourney, I think SLU will be chosen over Vassar.  If RIT wins, then it's Skidmore.  Of course this all assumes that either Cortland or Oneonta win their division.  Sounds complicated.  Best thing to do is to just win!

Yes, winning cures all, lol. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 02, 2022, 05:31:25 PM
OK, I won't bother you guys anymore here, but I am very confident about SLU now....if I've calculated right, SLU for RvR is 3-1-1 and they could drop to 3-2-1 if they lose the final.  So they either lose to RIT and remain at 3-1-1, win and lose final and end up 3-2-1, or win AQ.  A draw and PKs could change the numbers just a little but won't impact the three wins.  I guess the downside is they can only get a 4th win by winning the AQ but then you won't care. 

If Skidmore loses to Vassar they go from 1-2-4 to 1-3-4.  If they win and lose the final to RIT, they would be 2-2-4 (or 2-3-4 if RIT won whole thing and got ranked in the final ranking).  Skid doesn't have enough margin on SoS to overtake SLU imo given significantly better winning pct and RvR for SLU.  If Vassar loses to Skid they end 1-4-3 or if beat Skid and lose final to RIT then 2-4-3 (or 2-5-3 if RIT got ranked).  Imo SLU edges Vassar in that scenario although it might be tight.  So seems like worst case scenario for SLU is Vassar beating Skid but losing AQ IF SLU loses to RIT. 

Bottom line I think it's going to be SLU and Vassar unless Skid wins the AQ and then everyone can sweat out what happens with another bid which one of them will definitely get (or definitely should get).

2nd bottom line....SLU needs to advance past RIT to get RIT out of the picture.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 03, 2022, 09:10:08 PM
Big games on tomorrow.
4 teams in the baby dance like it used to be back in da day.
SLU v RIT
I heard a rumor that the SLU coach was gonna  have the Saint #10 play Goal Keeper and distribute from the back.

RIT is strange, if they win the league no one would be surprised and everyone would.be surprised at the same time.
I think this game goes to overtime and Saints use the home team advantage and pushes through.

Vassar v. Skidmore
I have been going against a very good Vassar team all year so why stop now.
I think Skidmore gets this one with one of the best strikers around since Adam Beek.

Skidmore v SLU final.

This is one year that predictions have to come with an asterick however.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 04, 2022, 02:56:13 PM
Is the SLU video choppy for others with a delay on the commentary?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2022, 03:14:34 PM
For some reason this season they decided to use a feed off a monitor instead of using the direct feed.  No idea why.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2022, 03:27:17 PM
Says alot about how evenly matched this league is when both semi-finals are tied goalless at half.
Skidmore holding tough at Vassar and RIT playing very well at Sandy.
2nd half will be tough on RIT considering they played only a few days ago, but then again, SLU did the job from 5th seed last year so you never know.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 04, 2022, 05:08:08 PM
Wow Skidmore gets past Vassar in PKs. That 6-6 Skidmore keeper saved three PKs
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2022, 05:44:56 PM
Saint you called the winners. Nice. Will NCAA snub a Vassar team that had zero league losses?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2022, 05:56:58 PM
Great game between SLU and RIT.  Definite playoff atmosphere.  Full and engaged crowd along with quality play.  Probably the best defensive effort by SLU this season.   RIT crowd was a nice group of people, passionate about their team/sons but very courteous to everyone around them.   My opinion of the Tigers went way up today. 

Seems like a tale as old as time with Skidmore clawing and scratching their way through the league tournament to reach the final.   Should be a tremendous game Sunday.  Weather might be iffy so I foresee another defensive slog. 

Being so high in the RRs you'd think Vassar should be a pool C.  There have been snubs but RPI got one a few years back despite missing the league tournament, as did SLU.  One would think Vassar is in the same spot since their SOS is not going to go down much.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2022, 06:30:27 PM
Here are the potential finals outcomes and Paul Newman can perhaps assist us here. SLU wins; SLU wins in penalty kicks, Skidmore wins, and Skidmore wins in penalty kicks. In each of these scenarios who gets the pool c (s)?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 04, 2022, 07:26:01 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 04, 2022, 06:30:27 PM
Here are the potential finals outcomes and Paul Newman can perhaps assist us here. SLU wins; SLU wins in penalty kicks, Skidmore wins, and Skidmore wins in penalty kicks. In each of these scenarios who gets the pool c (s)?

First of all, I am just a guy running my mouth on a chat board.  There are others who are "experts" at this sort of stuff but they may not chime in.

That said....SLU is in, period.

Vassar and Skid BOTH suffered from not winning today because they both desperately needed a ranked win.  Otherwise, they both have a similar number of ranked draws.  If Skid beats SLU it's Skid and SLU.  If SLU wins, I think Vassar stays ahead of Skid because Vassar already was ahead and they have the superior SoS.  Nothing really should change between those two if Skid loses to SLU or fails in PKs.  BUT, I think the scenarios with Skid losing or failing to advance very possibly (likely?) leave both Vassar and Skid out. 

I will qualify to this extent as I haven't carefully scanned every possible bubble team (or who may become a bubble team that seemed secure before).  IF the last couple of spots only involve teams with one ranked win and don't have a really strong SoS then that may put Vassar in play, but again, Vassar's one ranked win is not a great one.

SLU smartly scheduled Oneonta and Cortland and that produced a good ranked win.  I will say SLU is VERY fortunate Hobart held on at the bottom of the rankings.  I know some of you may view Hobart differently, but compare that to Bowdoin losing Conn Conn and Wesleyan as ranked wins.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2022, 09:46:49 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 04, 2022, 05:44:56 PM
Saint you called the winners. Nice. Will NCAA snub a Vassar team that had zero league losses?

That is indeed impressive that Vassar has come through this league playing 10 games without losing a single one.
That alone should get them in the dance.
Problem is there are so many good SUNYAC and UAA teams who will also had great seasons.
First thing Vassar must hope is that SLU wins it all, if that happens, I give them a more than likely chance to get a bid.

Again, this league does not get the props it deserves so who knows.
It is the Patrick Henry "Give me Liberty, or give me death" league.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2022, 09:58:19 PM
Thanks Paul and Saint.  Appears that Vassar is totally on the bubble and if Skidmore wins, unless the NCAA wants to give the league 3 bids, on the wrong side of it.  UAA has an advantage in that its teams are in many different regions as well as its historic strength.  From a recruiting standpoint, not only do the UAA teams have incredible academic prowess, they also have the attraction, at least for some players, of traveling as much or more than a D1 program.  Knowing you are going to play in Chicago, NYC, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, etc. is a pretty cool prospect for an 18 year old.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 05, 2022, 08:09:41 AM
What a final we have on our hands.
Not sure I want to go anywhere near a prediction on this one, not sure if any of us can.

Experience has taught me that in finals, it is not the best team that will win, but the hungriest.
Sunday we will see who the hungrier team is.

History v. History
Skidmore has a chance to make history. They have had some amazing teams over the years, especially during the first part of the last decade.
For some reason they never really get over the hump and have not danced as much as Hobart/RPI/Vassar or Ithaca.
This is their chance, with an all-time goal scorer. (I love the speedy #7s).
In all fairness as well, the league would benefit from having 2 dancers and SLU seems to have  maybe almost locked up an At-Large.

SLU is also representing history.
St. Lawrence has been giving it to them since the 70s, took the entire decade of the 80s off then came back in the 90s.
These boys (especially seniors) want to write their own page in the book of Saints.
I am sure the coach is telling them they need to win to dance.

@ the risk of being overly sentimental, both groups of seniors deserve to dance this season.
This senior class is maybe the most resilient in league history. Came in as freshmen and tried to find their footing in the college game. Sophomore year (Most important in many aspects) was blown up by Covid. As Juniors, they had to re-establish themselves as leaders in the team and now this.

We all had crazy 4 year careers, but this is next level for these boys and now they are at a point where they can have silverware and a chance at dancing in November.

Good luck to both teams. May the hungrier team win.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on November 05, 2022, 08:27:45 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 04, 2022, 09:58:19 PM
Thanks Paul and Saint.  Appears that Vassar is totally on the bubble and if Skidmore wins, unless the NCAA wants to give the league 3 bids, on the wrong side of it.  UAA has an advantage in that its teams are in many different regions as well as its historic strength.  From a recruiting standpoint, not only do the UAA teams have incredible academic prowess, they also have the attraction, at least for some players, of traveling as much or more than a D1 program.  Knowing you are going to play in Chicago, NYC, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, etc. is a pretty cool prospect for an 18 year old.

Vassar also better hope Hopkins takes care of Muhlenberg in the Centennial final.  Should the Muhles win, that would be two Pool C's coming out of that conference (Hopkins, F&M). And remember, Muhlenberg already drew with Hopkins just a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LL_Alum on November 06, 2022, 10:21:22 AM
I hope the Saint fans won't get too mad at me for putting the inevitable jinx on... but I'm expecting a comfortable Saint victory today. 2-0 would be my specific prediction. I've been very impressed by SLU this year. In the years I was playing it always felt as if SLU was one of the best teams we saw all year, with fantastic individual players, yet as a side they connived at their own self-destruction, or were prone to switching off for individual moments of games which led to goals. This year it seems to have come together and they seem to have found the ability to grind out a close result.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 06, 2022, 12:21:26 PM
Let's put the women and children to bed and go hunting for dinner boys!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 06, 2022, 12:48:45 PM
My pick is SLU as well.  Skidmore is fortunate to be here.  Hobart made two huge defensive gaffes or that game would have gone to OT.  Vassar had 16 corner kicks in the 0-0 game with Skidmore.  Skidmore's goalie did come up huge in pks.   SLU can man mark number 7 and the rest will fall into place.  I am becoming less and less optimistic that the LL will get a second team into the dance.  A Skidmore loss eliminates them from consideration based on strength of record and lack of ranked wins.  With New Paltz losing in the first round of the SUNYAC, Vassar may have no ranked wins.  When teams like North Park and Kenyon don't get automatic qualifiers those are two teams that are locks for Pool Cs reducing the number of spots available.  Despite the great year SLU is having without sustaining a LL loss, it was not a dominant team with numerous ties and close wins.  Vassar didn't have a LL loss either, and while a good team, it is even farther away from being a dominant team.  If faced with a Wesleyan or Hamilton, two teams with very precarious Pool C status, I don't think there is a question that Vassar would not prevail against either.  So I am bummed about the LL NCAA prospects.  Hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 06, 2022, 01:01:00 PM
Vassar can't lose the New Paltz win as any team ranked in week 3 or 4 counts...athough it is a lower ranked win compared to a, say, Brockport that has wins over Oneonta and Cortland.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 06, 2022, 01:08:14 PM
Thanks Paul.  West Conn's PK loss in the finals also concerns me.  They are 20-0-2 and beat Vassar at Poughkeepsie and yet pundits are suggesting that West Conn won't get a bid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 06, 2022, 02:53:25 PM
Congrats, Saints Nation!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 06, 2022, 03:55:26 PM
Sibanda was on another level today.  Overheard more than one Skidmore fan praising his talent.  He's a special player, and that's putting it lightly.  I'm glad I got to every home game this year to see him play.

As for the game, it was all SLU in the first half but Skidmore played a much better 2nd half.  Skid keeper made some great saves.  This stretch of games has been the best SLU has played this year. 

On a side note, about 80% of the crowd today showed up more than halfway through the 1st half, most of them students.  Heard many of them asking each other if they saw the first goal.  Well maybe if you were here even 5 minutes into the game you would have seen it.  I guess I don't understand the calculus of coming to the game that late.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 06, 2022, 03:59:36 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 02, 2022, 08:13:14 PM
Right back at you Deutschfan.
Never said he was all-time Saint status, that group is maybe a good 22,am squad... I said he was top 5 (At minimum)

No over reaction man.
I told People Dede was the best player in the league before he kicked the first ball for SLU and he left as back to back league MVP.

This kid is even better.

First Saint in history to top score in his first two seasons (and scoring is not really what he does).
Already a league MVP and just really getting started.

There are players and then there are players.
Levels to football. This man is not normal.

I recall saying this earlier in the season and some questioned my analysis of the player, but the Saint #10 is a different type of animal.

First Saint to play top score for the team his first 3 years and has been the best player in this league for 3 years in a row.
Amazing Player, and a very humble human being.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 06, 2022, 04:26:03 PM
Great win with Sibanda taking over the game.  Maybe the Saints are in contention to host the first round.  That would be the cherry on the sundae. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 06, 2022, 07:10:41 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 06, 2022, 12:48:45 PMWhen teams like North Park and Kenyon don't get automatic qualifiers those are two teams that are locks for Pool Cs reducing the number of spots available.

That's probably true for the Kenyon/OWU result as OWU probably doesn't get an at-large berth if they lost, but the North Park/North Central result didn't cost anyone a Pool C berth because both were locks and it was merely a question of which one got in a an AQ and which as at-large.  Not to mention that North Central had the better win pct., slightly higher SOS, higher RvR win pct. whic is why they were ranked #2 in their region one spot ahead of North Park. 

Similarly, the CNU/Mary Washington result didn't cost any Pool C hopefuls because Mary Washington was a pretty safe bet for a Pool C berth anyway.  I also don't think a Pool C berth was lost due to ONU not winning the OAC tournament (John Carroll was probably getting an at-large anyways) and Montclair State getting beaten in the NJAC final (Rowan with another loss would have had an iffy win pct., but the SOS and RvR was probably enough). 

Babson or Stevens or Messiah losing, now that would have cost Pool C hopefuls a berth.  But looking it all over, I think this year only one Pool C berth was lost due to an unlikely conference champion that wasn't going to get picked otherwise (Muhlenberg taking the Centennial AQ with Hopkins short-changing Pool C hopefuls).  That's better than most years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 07, 2022, 08:38:34 AM
Agreed re Sibanda.  He moved up to even another level today.  Took a shot from midfield that even had a chance.  Just completely controlled the game.  Poised, smart, perfect weight on his passes.  Favorite plays of the day were the first goal, where Mogul did an amazing flick move over the defender, exploding to the by line, and then feeding Sibanda with a back pass into the penalty area.  Of course the second goal where Sibanda, aware of time left in the game, exploded up the field, feeding Levy on the wing and then receiving the ball back in the penalty area for the finish.  Perhaps the best short passing that this team can do with control, that you don't see other teams in the LL do, was when Rogliano bobbed and weaved and passed and then almost finished, except for the excellent save by the Skidmore keeper, Bobby Strats.
Just an exciting game.  The best I've seen SLU play this year.  Can SLU get through the first weekend? Can SLU host without lights?  I believe they deserve the honor.  And I think this team has the talent, drive and confidence to make a run in the NCAAs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: College Soccer Observer on November 07, 2022, 09:14:56 AM
Lights are not a requirement.  Many schools have hosted recently without lights.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 07, 2022, 09:44:23 AM
Thank you.  Looks like SLU has a good chance in that case.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 07, 2022, 09:54:58 AM
SLU has been hosting NCAA since Johnny was a boy.
Hosted 2002 Final 4.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 07, 2022, 10:38:55 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 07, 2022, 09:54:58 AM
SLU has been hosting NCAA since Johnny was a boy.
Hosted 2002 Final 4.

If it wasn't for the snow and having to move the games to the field hockey astroturf, having the Final Four in Canton on Sandy would have been great!  Unfortunately, the snow and astroturf, is probably to blame for not getting the highly anticipated Messiah-Trinity match-up in the final.  Though different styles, those were two high-octane attacks and everybody knew they were the two best teams in the country.  Hayden Woodworth, Matt Bills, et al. for the Falcons.  Josh Smith, Josh Card and company for the Tigers. So disappointing it didn't happen.  Trinity didn't have footwear to play on the slick, snowy/icy astroturf and rumor had it that the Saints lent turf shoes to the Tigers.  Besides just not being close to accustomed to playing in freezing temps, it was much harder for the Tigers to play their urgent, high-velocity attacking game on the smaller field with footing an issue and the ball skimming on the astroturf at a pace to challenge even their speedy forwards. Messiah's more controlled, short-passing game--given how good they were at it--wasn't as impacted by the conditions and they looked very good, especially in the semifinal against the hosts.  Otterbein, the surprise team at the Final Four, had that guy with the outrageously long throw-in which, if memories serves, did lead to the game-winner versus Trinity.  It as annoying because any throw-in past midfield, he'd come take it which made for lots of waiting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 07, 2022, 10:46:04 AM
St.Lawrence playing without its 2 best players Sweeper and Defensive Mid against Messiah didn't help either.
Oh the history of it all.
Either way Messiah and SLU semi was a match up that was a classic. Even more so at the time for D3 supremacy really in 2002
Messiah returned the favor from quarter final in 1999 giving SLU a home loss.
Great times for D3 soccer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slu888 on November 07, 2022, 11:23:39 AM
SLU will not be hosting.....Cross Country Regional, Home Football, and Home Hockey on Saturday

Not enough hotel rooms open in an hours drive....per NCAA

Hope they don't put us in Amherst's Regional
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 07, 2022, 11:27:23 AM
I'm not sure I was aware at the time that the Saints were missing those players.

Otterbein had beaten Wheaton in OT in the Elite 8 and had eliminated Ohio Wesleyan on PKs in the Sweet 16. If one of those two had made the Final Four instead, it would have been a historical heavyweight (OWU or Wheaton both with titles in the previous 5 years) and a recent heavyweight in SLU (with undefeated '99 title) challenged by the new heavyweights in Messiah and Trinity. A changing of the guard, so to speak. The snow and all makes for great stories, especially for those of us who made the trip there, but it mooted the quality of the soccer played and kept us from seeing MacAllister field in all its glory (I think all but Otterbein would have loved to have played on such a spacious field).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2022, 11:32:58 AM
Quote from: slu888 on November 07, 2022, 11:23:39 AM
SLU will not be hosting.....Cross Country Regional, Home Football, and Home Hockey on Saturday

Not enough hotel rooms open in an hours drive....per NCAA

Hope they don't put us in Amherst's Regional

Unfortunate but makes sense. Hotels were the reason SLU didn't host the first two rounds in 2011.  There are more hotels in Canton and Potsdam now though, but I guess it's still not enough.

Nice to see another new contributor, who apparently has the inside info!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 07, 2022, 12:10:51 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 07, 2022, 11:27:23 AM
I'm not sure I was aware at the time that the Saints were missing those players.

Otterbein had beaten Wheaton in OT in the Elite 8 and had eliminated Ohio Wesleyan on PKs in the Sweet 16. If one of those two had made the Final Four instead, it would have been a historical heavyweight (OWU or Wheaton both with titles in the previous 5 years) and a recent heavyweight in SLU (with undefeated '99 title) challenged by the new heavyweights in Messiah and Trinity. A changing of the guard, so to speak. The snow and all makes for great stories, especially for those of us who made the trip there, but it mooted the quality of the soccer played and kept us from seeing MacAllister field in all its glory (I think all but Otterbein would have loved to have played on such a spacious field).

Yes. 2 all-time great Saints Macky Diop and Shawn Watson, both out Injury and suspension. Dont get me wrong, Messiah are always worthy Champs, but would have loved to see that game with both teams full strength. At the time the game was for d3 supremacy.
99 v 2000 Champs.
Messiah returned the favor from 99 with a road win .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 07, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Who is the last LL player to score a hatrick in a conference Final?
No one that I can remember.
If  it walks like a goat talks like a goat...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2022, 01:52:56 PM
Super happy for Vassar, about time the league gets some more respect.

According to the archives SLU has played Roger Williams in the tournament before (in the ill fated 2004 first round weekend).  Will be a tough test no doubt, the CCC is a pretty good conference. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 07, 2022, 02:29:11 PM
Am very happy for Vassar as well.  Should get into the tournament if you go undefeated in the Liberty League.  I feel for West Conn given they went 20-0-2 and beat Vassar and got no love.  Very tough draws for SLU and Vassar.  While the LL has had recent success against Roger Williams, Babson is a tough first round out in Brunswick, ME for Vassar and then the next rounds are against arguably the two best NESCAC teams and arguably two of the top teams in the nation on their home fields.  Amherst's players are HUGE.  Sibanda will be dancing among the redwoods.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 07, 2022, 03:08:28 PM
I agree totally Western Connecticut deserved an at large bid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 07, 2022, 04:13:48 PM
Montclair beat Vassar at Poughkeepsie and they are left out as well.  Strange how these things play out.  Last year Vassar is passed over with similar rankings and SOS as this year, and this year the teams that beat them are passed over.  The more I think about SLU's and Vassar's draws the more I realize how terrible they are. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slu888 on November 07, 2022, 06:23:36 PM
Agreed...how does the committee put SLU in the Amherst regional?  Makes no sense.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2022, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: slu888 on November 07, 2022, 06:23:36 PM
Agreed...how does the committee put SLU in the Amherst regional?  Makes no sense.

Tradition mostly
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 07, 2022, 06:33:46 PM
SLU and Amherst has quite the history in the NCAAs.
Many games hosted at Canton and in MA.

SLU v. Williams 1998 Quarter Final is one of the classic NCAA d3 games.

Something tells me these 13-1-5 teams will meet again in this years dance, but obviously St. Lawrence would have to handle business against a good Roger Williams team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: College Soccer Observer on November 07, 2022, 06:44:23 PM
Where should they have gone?  The other two parts of the bracket has one Quarter where Messiah is the top seed and includes NYU, Williams, Calvin, Kenyon, and Washington and Lee.  The other quarter of the bracket is Cortland St, Stevens, Middlebury, Christopher Newport, and Hopkins.  Chicago's part of the bracket was probably not an option geographically as it includes all the California, Texas, and upper Midwest schools.  There are no easy draws.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2022, 06:47:40 PM
Yea I'm not really hung up on it.  It was unlikely they were going to send them to Oneonta for the first round after having played each other already.    The only other spot they could have landed was the Bowdoin regional, but would you rather take your chance playing RWU and possibly Amherst or play Babson in the first round?   Don't see where else they should have been put.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 07, 2022, 06:48:56 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 07, 2022, 02:29:11 PM
Am very happy for Vassar as well.  Should get into the tournament if you go undefeated in the Liberty League.  I feel for West Conn given they went 20-0-2 and beat Vassar and got no love.  Very tough draws for SLU and Vassar.  While the LL has had recent success against Roger Williams, Babson is a tough first round out in Brunswick, ME for Vassar and then the next rounds are against arguably the two best NESCAC teams and arguably two of the top teams in the nation on their home fields.  Amherst's players are HUGE.  Sibanda will be dancing among the redwoods.

Sibanda will be on the ground.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 07, 2022, 06:51:34 PM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on November 07, 2022, 06:44:23 PM
Where should they have gone?  The other two parts of the bracket has one Quarter where Messiah is the top seed and includes NYU, Williams, Calvin, Kenyon, and Washington and Lee.  The other quarter of the bracket is Cortland St, Stevens, Middlebury, Christopher Newport, and Hopkins.  Chicago's part of the bracket was probably not an option geographically as it includes all the California, Texas, and upper Midwest schools.  There are no easy draws.

I think they'd gladly switch with Cortland.  SLU went from dreams of hosting to going to Amherst.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 07, 2022, 06:56:04 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 07, 2022, 06:48:56 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 07, 2022, 02:29:11 PM
Am very happy for Vassar as well.  Should get into the tournament if you go undefeated in the Liberty League.  I feel for West Conn given they went 20-0-2 and beat Vassar and got no love.  Very tough draws for SLU and Vassar.  While the LL has had recent success against Roger Williams, Babson is a tough first round out in Brunswick, ME for Vassar and then the next rounds are against arguably the two best NESCAC teams and arguably two of the top teams in the nation on their home fields.  Amherst's players are HUGE.  Sibanda will be dancing among the redwoods.

Sibanda will be on the ground.
Football is more of a mental game than a physical one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 07, 2022, 06:59:02 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 07, 2022, 06:56:04 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 07, 2022, 06:48:56 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 07, 2022, 02:29:11 PM
Am very happy for Vassar as well.  Should get into the tournament if you go undefeated in the Liberty League.  I feel for West Conn given they went 20-0-2 and beat Vassar and got no love.  Very tough draws for SLU and Vassar.  While the LL has had recent success against Roger Williams, Babson is a tough first round out in Brunswick, ME for Vassar and then the next rounds are against arguably the two best NESCAC teams and arguably two of the top teams in the nation on their home fields.  Amherst's players are HUGE.  Sibanda will be dancing among the redwoods.

Sibanda will be on the ground.
Football is more of a mental game than a physical one.

Sibanda will be the best player on the field (maybe by far).  Do you think Amherst will have a game plan?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 07, 2022, 07:01:09 PM
Do you think SLU will have one as well?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 07, 2022, 07:06:43 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 07, 2022, 07:01:09 PM
Do you think SLU will have one as well?

They damn sure better, lol.  And I'll be rooting like crazy for them.  I've been very pro-SLU all year, so there's that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 07, 2022, 07:09:01 PM
Over the years there have been some great battles.
Amherst have won most but each NCAA game is always entertaining.
We will see what happens and if SLU even gets to the 2nd round, but this is a different type of SLU team than before.
Similar, but different.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldMCGuy on November 07, 2022, 09:43:23 PM
As am Old Messiah Guy from Zimbabwe, I look forward to meeting you and Sibanda in Greensboro
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 07, 2022, 09:51:42 PM
Every man have a right to decide his own destiny...

I am sure you and the Saint#10 have loads in common man. Best of the Motherland mixed with American higher education.
Great combination.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slu888 on November 08, 2022, 07:12:31 AM
RWU is no walkover for SLU...they have kept a clean sheet 11 times this year.

If they do advance, Amherst will physically try to dominate......huge size advantage. 

Just bummed they couldn't host in Canton!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 08, 2022, 07:25:50 AM
I agree with all you say, but if there is any Saint team in the past 10 seasons that can do a job on the road, its this one.
Dances are strange man, sometimes the teams you think you will play get upset. You just have to give it to whoever you are facing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldNed on November 08, 2022, 09:44:50 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 07, 2022, 07:01:09 PM
Do you think SLU will have one as well?

Absolutely, SLU will have a plan.  My son is the grad assistant for SLU so I know they'll strategize and come up with something.  As an added bit of history, Amherst knocked my son's team out of the tournament his senior year.  I just remember the atrocious condition of the grass field (it rained the day before) and I'm hoping it's not a bog out there on Saturday/Sunday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 08, 2022, 10:39:34 AM
Liberty League honors for 2022

Coaching staff of the year: SLU

Player of the year: Marvin Sibanda, SLU

Defensive POY: Ben Woelfinger, SLU

Rookie of the year: Ryan Campbell, SLU


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 08, 2022, 11:15:07 AM
stlawus and Saint, any filtering I do is not just about you guys.  I actually think we all do it and most of the times that's probably a good thing.  This will surprise some since I tend to get myself in trouble a few times a year.  Like many here you get used to the players (posters) and you develop a feel for them and their trigger spots.  I complain about the karma system but it probably is a good guardrail to at least make us pause from time to time.  Getting old is a mixed bag....I like not caring as much and feeling "more free" but on the other hand getting old means I don't care as much when maybe I should.  Once one gets caught up in an argument or back and forth it can be hard to extricate oneself from it, and as SC is trying to counsel me, some little micro-battles are really not worth the trouble.  I definitely have some regrets from some encounters over the years, most notably that involved the intersection of OWU and Kenyon, which was weird because the ONLY time my foil and I had any issue at all was when our allegiances were most directly in play.  Otherwise, he was always very generous and fair with Kenyon and I believe I did (and continue to do) the same with OWU.  It becomes a visceral-level thing that even if I wanted to do differently if I had it to do all over again I'm guessing I wouldn't be able to.  Even for very bright, accomplished, and relatively stable folks, once you get caught up in a vortex with someone or a few others extricating oneself is not necessarily easy to do.

I am very happy for you guys about SLU doing so well this season.  And I am very interested to carefully watch Sibanda for a full game.  I hope they do get a shot with Amherst.  Saint's point about having played Oneonta and Cortland is a good one.  I am interested in how you all think SLU will approach playing such a physically huge team on what usually is described as a small and/or narrow field where space could be tough to find and the grass will look nothing like gorgeous Sandy.

There are always some phenomenal 2nd round matches (like in addition to others already mentioned North Central vs St Olaf if it happens should be superb), and having at least one pod playing Fri-Sat instead of Sat/Sun is good for viewers being able to catch more games.

One thing I don't like about powerhouse 2nd round matchups happening earlier than they should is that people most remember a team losing in the 2nd round instead of how well they competed or whatever or who they played.  And then chants of overrated or 'choke' sometimes come through. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 08, 2022, 11:35:05 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 08, 2022, 11:15:07 AM
stlawus and Saint, any filtering I do is not just about you guys.  I actually think we all do it and most of the times that's probably a good thing.  This will surprise some since I tend to get myself in trouble a few times a year.  Like many here you get used to the players (posters) and you develop a feel for them and their trigger spots.  I complain about the karma system but it probably is a good guardrail to at least make us pause from time to time.  Getting old is a mixed bag....I like not caring as much and feeling "more free" but on the other hand getting old means I don't care as much when maybe I should.  Once one gets caught up in an argument or back and forth it can be hard to extricate oneself from it, and as SC is trying to counsel me, some little micro-battles are really not worth the trouble.  I definitely have some regrets from some encounters over the years, most notably that involved the intersection of OWU and Kenyon, which was weird because the ONLY time my foil and I had any issue at all was when our allegiances were most directly in play.  Otherwise, he was always very generous and fair with Kenyon and I believe I did (and continue to do) the same with OWU.  It becomes a visceral-level thing that even if I wanted to do differently if I had it to do all over again I'm guessing I wouldn't be able to.  Even for very bright, accomplished, and relatively stable folks, once you get caught up in a vortex with someone or a few others extricating oneself is not necessarily easy to do.

I am very happy for you guys about SLU doing so well this season.  And I am very interested to carefully watch Sibanda for a full game.  I hope they do get a shot with Amherst.  Saint's point about having played Oneonta and Cortland is a good one.  I am interested in how you all think SLU will approach playing such a physically huge team on what usually is described as a small and/or narrow field where space could be tough to find and the grass will look nothing like gorgeous Sandy.

There are always some phenomenal 2nd round matches (like in addition to others already mentioned North Central vs St Olaf if it happens should be superb), and having at least one pod playing Fri-Sat instead of Sat/Sun is good for viewers being able to catch more games.

One thing I don't like about powerhouse 2nd round matchups happening earlier than they should is that people most remember a team losing in the 2nd round instead of how well they competed or whatever or who they played.  And then chants of overrated or 'choke' sometimes come through.
This is all, and always will be a friendly forum man. What is the use if we cannot pull each other's leg from time to time and the passion encourages good debate and great points. Its a game of confrontation, nothing wrong with differing with each other even strongly, so long as we can all shake hands at the end of the game (argument) and appreciate the battles.
The beauty of the forum is not just cheering your team, but favorites you have come torespect a great deal along the way. For me it is Wheaton (Ill), Plattsburgh, Williams.
Who cannot appreciate teams like Kenyon, Amherst, Tufts, Calvin. Even when we critique or talk about these teams its because we deep down appreciate who they are and what they have done.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 08, 2022, 04:49:01 PM
Will Amherst switch to their turf field if the grass becomes too wet and chopped up?  I hope so.  Amherst plays in the air.  SLU on the ground.  The better the conditions the better for SLU.  They can control the ball.  I'm sure Amherst can as well, but the worse the conditions, the better the chances for Amherst, not that they need any help.  This will be SLU's opportunity to show D3 soccer what kind of team they have.  Sibanda will show why he deserves to be div 3 soccer player of the year, or at least first team all american.  And if Mogul, Levy, and Pijpers are all healthy, I expect them to demonstrate to all of the schools who decided not to recruit them the opportunities they missed.  I'm waiting for Mogul to completely return to form since his injury.  I believe he showed that he is getting close to 100 percent against Skidmore with a tutorial of a flick, run to the byline and feed to Sibanda.  Now I'd like to see him get the confidence to put the ball in the net.  I would favor SLU against almost anyone at home.  It will be difficult on a chopped up narrow field for them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 08, 2022, 05:09:32 PM
Let's worry about Roger Williams first.  Can't look ahead, that game will present plenty of challenges.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 08, 2022, 06:40:16 PM
Maybe someone on the SLU squad between now and the weekend can develop a flip throw.  Then again, hopefully not as that strategy makes the beautiful game far less beautiful.  SLU's sweep of the awards was well deserved.  Never to hesitate to throw in my two cents, I would have liked to see a joint award with the Vassar coaching staff--a remarkable job for a first year coach replacing a legend.  Also, there hasn't been a unanimous first team selection since 2013, and that includes a player like Jethro Dede who was a first team All-American his senior year.  Unless the LL has forgotten how to use the asterisk key, the notion that Sibanda wasn't unanimous is a travesty, not quite a West Conn travesty, but still pretty bad.  Finally, Hobart who made the playoffs, and was regionally ranked at one point, had no one on the first or second team.  That also is pretty whack. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 08, 2022, 08:33:42 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on November 08, 2022, 04:49:01 PM
Will Amherst switch to their turf field if the grass becomes too wet and chopped up?  I hope so.  Amherst plays in the air.  SLU on the ground.  The better the conditions the better for SLU.  They can control the ball.  I'm sure Amherst can as well, but the worse the conditions, the better the chances for Amherst, not that they need any help.  This will be SLU's opportunity to show D3 soccer what kind of team they have.  Sibanda will show why he deserves to be div 3 soccer player of the year, or at least first team all american.  And if Mogul, Levy, and Pijpers are all healthy, I expect them to demonstrate to all of the schools who decided not to recruit them the opportunities they missed.  I'm waiting for Mogul to completely return to form since his injury.  I believe he showed that he is getting close to 100 percent against Skidmore with a tutorial of a flick, run to the byline and feed to Sibanda.  Now I'd like to see him get the confidence to put the ball in the net.  I would favor SLU against almost anyone at home.  It will be difficult on a chopped up narrow field for them.

Just looking at numbers in the NCAA Stats Marvin Sibanda is ranked 63rd with 11 goals and tied at number 57 for total points with a total of 28.  When I looked Roger Williams Javi Beltran 11 goals and 7 assist giving him 29 points.  What are you using to say Sibanda will be the best player on the field?  I do not know either of these players so I am inquiring what you used as your criteria to make such a statement.

inquiring minds want to know!  You claim he should be considered for D3 Player of the year?  IMO there are many players ahead of him for the D3 player of the year that play the same position.  First team might even be a stretch for the 57 placed player.

See list below:
                                                                        gp      g   assist  pts
1   Joseph Thongsythavong   Norwich   Sr.   17   21   10   52
2   Victor Naci        St. Joseph's (Brkln)   So.   16   23   3   49
-   Enrique Hernandez      LaGrange   Sr.   17   21   7   49
4      Matt McDonald                Messiah   Sr.   20   21   6   48
5   John Cronnolly         Dominican (IL)   So.   16   22   3   47
6   Ander Castillo               Medaille   So.   17   21   3   45
-   Nathan Donovan    Wis.-Eau Claire   So.   20   19   7   45
-   Marcos Vila                  Luther   Sr.   20   16   13   45
9   Luis Green              Texas Lutheran   Sr.   16   19   6   44
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 08, 2022, 08:53:14 PM
Coach, you seriously don't think you figure out POY or Midfielder of the Year or whatever by scrolling down a scoring list.  You know one player on that list.  You're sure the others should also be 1st team AA?  And what about the three ahead of your guy?   And why the pointed intensity on this?  Guy said he looked forward to more people getting a better idea about their whole team and Sibanda.  Made sense to me.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 08, 2022, 09:12:18 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 08, 2022, 08:53:14 PM
Coach, you seriously don't think you figure out POY or Midfielder of the Year or whatever by scrolling down a scoring list.  You know one player on that list.  You're sure the others should also be 1st team AA?  And what about the three ahead of your guy?   And why the pointed intensity on this?  Guy said he looked forward to more people getting a better idea about their whole team and Sibanda.  Made sense to me.

PN I was just asking for what he saw to make the statement.  I do not know them.  I do disagree with you my player of the year is not on the list.  Sorry for your misinformation.  I never stated my POY. 

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 08, 2022, 09:16:08 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on November 08, 2022, 09:12:18 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 08, 2022, 08:53:14 PM
Coach, you seriously don't think you figure out POY or Midfielder of the Year or whatever by scrolling down a scoring list.  You know one player on that list.  You're sure the others should also be 1st team AA?  And what about the three ahead of your guy?   And why the pointed intensity on this?  Guy said he looked forward to more people getting a better idea about their whole team and Sibanda.  Made sense to me.

PN I was just asking for what he saw to make the statement.  I do not know them.  I do disagree with you my player of the year is not on the list.  Sorry for your misinformation.  I never stated my POY.

The player I think will make a good run at the POY is on SC's list but he was not listed on my copied list...  :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 08, 2022, 09:26:46 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on November 08, 2022, 09:12:18 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 08, 2022, 08:53:14 PM
Coach, you seriously don't think you figure out POY or Midfielder of the Year or whatever by scrolling down a scoring list.  You know one player on that list.  You're sure the others should also be 1st team AA?  And what about the three ahead of your guy?   And why the pointed intensity on this?  Guy said he looked forward to more people getting a better idea about their whole team and Sibanda.  Made sense to me.

PN I was just asking for what he saw to make the statement.  I do not know them.  I do disagree with you my player of the year is not on the list.  Sorry for your misinformation.  I never stated my POY.

So then what was the point of posting the list?  The way it read sounded an awful like you were using the list to discredit Sibanda...and that impression only grew when you next made reference to 57 and whether he should even be first team. Is it relevant or is it not? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 08, 2022, 09:37:38 PM
Realistically the chances of Sibanda being POY are almost nil.  Typically the POY comes from a top 10 team that makes a deep run into the NCAA playoffs.  There was never any talk about Jethro Dede, who is similar in many ways to Sibanda, being POY during his senior season even though his finals heroics gave SLU the LL Championship and he ultimately made 1st team AA.  SLU's early exit from the dance quashed any discussion if any had even arisen.  If Sibanda has a hattie or brace against Amherst his stock will go majorly up but that still won't make him a favorite with all the crazy stats generated by Messiah offensive players, and Chicago's easy draw to the semis with a bunch of players contributing to their Terminator like composure.  If Sibanda gets shut down, which happened against a number of LL foes of far less caliber than Amherst, or the teams SLU might play thereafter, and SLU takes the concomitant loss, that will be the end of the discussion.  That is assuming of course that SLU beats RW, which I assume will happen but on Amherst's small pitch marking someone like Sibanda is a lot easier than when he has room to run.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 08, 2022, 10:06:23 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 08, 2022, 09:37:38 PM
Realistically the chances of Sibanda being POY are almost nil.  Typically the POY comes from a top 10 team that makes a deep run into the NCAA playoffs.  There was never any talk about Jethro Dede, who is similar in many ways to Sibanda, being POY during his senior season even though his finals heroics gave SLU the LL Championship and he ultimately made 1st team AA.  SLU's early exit from the dance quashed any discussion if any had even arisen.  If Sibanda has a hattie or brace against Amherst his stock will go majorly up but that still won't make him a favorite with all the crazy stats generated by Messiah offensive players, and Chicago's easy draw to the semis with a bunch of players contributing to their Terminator like composure.  If Sibanda gets shut down, which happened against a number of LL foes of far less caliber than Amherst, or the teams SLU might play thereafter, and SLU takes the concomitant loss, that will be the end of the discussion.  That is assuming of course that SLU beats RW, which I assume will happen but on Amherst's small pitch marking someone like Sibanda is a lot easier than when he has room to run.

Thanks for your insight.  I am fairly unfamiliar with LL and Marvin Sibanda. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 08, 2022, 10:53:45 PM
Hopefully Marvin and SLU will make a run and then everyone will know about Marvin Sibanda, and some of the other players on this exciting team.  I agree that Marvin needs a lot to happen to even be considered, but I'm hoping that SLU gets by RW so they will see what they can do against one of the best teams in the country on their field.  Hopefully it will be moved to turf so it can be a real soccer game if the grass turns to crap.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 08, 2022, 11:36:04 PM
Not going to comment at this stage of the season about any particular player. Let's just say no player on SLU is up to the standard of POY. Then we will have the feet talk for themselves.
I can.look at a player for 2 minutes and trust that eye test more than any Stat sheet can show.
I will say that when you see class you know class.
When you see a player  you have never seen before you remember him despite 0 goals and 0 assists.
Now is the time for the best, the very best to show who they are. I am confident the man being discussed will do just that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on November 09, 2022, 06:57:51 AM
N'Gola Kante has scored 2 goals in 53 appearances for France. How does he keep getting selected? ::)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 09, 2022, 08:04:03 AM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on November 08, 2022, 10:53:45 PM
Hopefully Marvin and SLU will make a run and then everyone will know about Marvin Sibanda, and some of the other players on this exciting team.  I agree that Marvin needs a lot to happen to even be considered, but I'm hoping that SLU gets by RW so they will see what they can do against one of the best teams in the country on their field.  Hopefully it will be moved to turf so it can be a real soccer game if the grass turns to crap.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Marvin as I am not familiar with his game.  Good luck to SLU
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 09, 2022, 08:09:06 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 08, 2022, 11:36:04 PM
Not going to comment at this stage of the season about any particular player. Let's just say no player on SLU is up to the standard of POY. Then we will have the feet talk for themselves.
I can.look at a player for 2 minutes and trust that eye test more than any Stat sheet can show.
I will say that when you see class you know class.
When you see a player  you have never seen before you remember him despite 0 goals and 0 assists.
Now is the time for the best, the very best to show who they are. I am confident the man being discussed will do just that.

Like I said earlier I am unfamiliar with Marvin.  So after reading your reply I looked him up on the SLU page and found this about him.

Sibanda played soccer and competed in track and field at the Taft School... He earned high school All-America honors and was named New England Soccer Journal Midfielder Of The Year during his senior year... He was a three-time Connecticut Soccer All-State, was a team captain and represented Zimbabwe on the Under-20 Men's Soccer National Team at the Cosafa Cup in 2018.

You are correct he will mostly like pass the eye test when I watch him play in the NCAA's.  Thanks for sharing this information.  Much appreciated!  :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: paclassic89 on November 09, 2022, 08:15:22 AM
Quote from: Ejay on November 09, 2022, 06:57:51 AM
N'Gola Kante has scored 2 goals in 53 appearances for France. How does he keep getting selected? ::)

Yeah but Kante type of players don't win the Ballon D'or...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 09, 2022, 08:20:36 AM
Does anyone know if Marvin Sibanda will be returning to SLU for his 5th year due to COVID 19 season?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 09, 2022, 09:01:26 AM
He is 24 years old.  I expect him to go pro.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 09, 2022, 09:06:03 AM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on November 09, 2022, 09:01:26 AM
He is 24 years old.  I expect him to go pro.

Is he looking to play overseas or in the US?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 09, 2022, 09:49:45 AM
Coach, not to belabor this (while belaboring this) but now you've acknowledged three times that you were/are unfamiliar with Sibanda since your initial pretty aggressive foray.

Couple of points...

I didn't say who you thought should be POY, so no misinformation there.  I simply noted that you only really knew one player on the list you posted that you still haven't explained why you posted it if indeed you actually don't think it has relevance for POY....and if you do believe it has relevance, then how your POY pick avoids your own criticism that you applied to Sibanda....which went even further because you suggested that specifically as a result of him being #57 that was evidence he maybe shouldn't be a first team AA either.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d4_Pace on November 09, 2022, 09:53:39 AM
Not to hijack the thread, but I know we really wanted to sign Marvin at Tufts while I was coaching. He is an incredible player. It would have been quite the midfield trio last year with him Aroh and Van Brewer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 09, 2022, 09:59:32 AM
Last point for now....if your guy is Groothoff who ironically is a guy one of your fellow Falcon fans has just very recently lamented may not get a fair shake re:
POY because of the deference that often goes to scoring, then I would add this...

I personally don't know about either to say who is better.  I know enough to trust that Groothoff is one of the best and possibly the best player in D3.  I also have not watched Sibanda a ton.  But it's interesting what they share....which is that their teams use them in multiple ways and however seems most advantageous is a particular game.  So if I am understanding correctly, both sometimes DCM, sometimes OCM, and probably occasionally striker.  I'm guessing they share many of the same traits.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 09, 2022, 10:02:21 AM
Quote from: d4_Pace on November 09, 2022, 09:53:39 AM
Not to hijack the thread, but I know we really wanted to sign Marvin at Tufts while I was coaching. He is an incredible player. It would have been quite the midfield trio last year with him Aroh and Van Brewer.

I think Van Brewer may have been one of the most underrated players in recent years. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 09, 2022, 10:59:05 AM
Quote from: d4_Pace on November 09, 2022, 09:53:39 AM
Not to hijack the thread, but I know we really wanted to sign Marvin at Tufts while I was coaching. He is an incredible player. It would have been quite the midfield trio last year with him Aroh and Van Brewer.

That is interesting...thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 09, 2022, 11:02:16 AM
Dear PN since I knew nothing about Marvin the only thing I had to look at is stats.  If you are reading the comments it is exactly what I wanted to learn there was nothing wrong with explaining the only information I had to learn more information.  I hope this helps you PN
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 09, 2022, 11:12:20 AM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on November 09, 2022, 11:02:16 AM
Dear PN since I knew nothing about Marvin the only thing I had to look at is stats.  If you are reading the comments it is exactly what I wanted to learn there was nothing wrong with explaining the only information I had to learn more information.  I hope this helps you PN

It helps only if you can now see the massive inconsistency and hypocrisy in your initial post, which now in hindsight, frankly seems bizarre because of how far you went with that take while fully aware that your own pick would fall prey to the exact same critique.  Or are you not referring to Groothoff?

Instead of giving your take about someone you knew absolutely nothing about except for posting a list of top scorers that you seemed to think meant something, you could have simply asked "Hey guys, this Sibanda kid must be pretty good.  Would you mind telling me a little more about him?"

And sorry, I apologize in advance.  I seriously struggle with blatant hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 09, 2022, 11:57:29 AM
This isn't a total change of subject but looking at Marvin's pre-college credentials and having seen him play in person and on video how does he end up at SLU?  And that is not a diss on SLU as it is not a question of why SLU over another D3 school but rather how did he end up D3 especially given that high school background.  He clearly was a huge recruiting coup for Coach Tosch.  I have the same question for Giammattei at Amherst who was twice D3 player of the year.  Good size, top scorer in the USSDA, how does Coach Serpone convince him to go D3 v D1.  Certainly Giammattei had D1 opportunities coming out of high school, and if he had some flaw in his game that made him unattractive to a Stanford, Notre Dame, UCLA, or other top program with academics similar to Amherst, certainly he could have had a roster spot at one of the Ivies.  I am really curious what the sales pitch was for both these players as to why they should not go D1 especially if both have professional aspirations.  Giammattei is at MD now but why start D3? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d4_Pace on November 09, 2022, 12:00:17 PM
My understanding in regard to German is that he committed to Amherst fairly early in the process before he had his monster senior year in the development academy. So it seems like he was a bit of a late bloomer and by the time those bigger programs came in for him, he chose to honor his commitment to Amherst.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2022, 12:07:28 PM
Sibanda was going to go D1 but had an eligibility issue.  He started high school rather early back in Zimbabwe so in combination with that and his time at Taft there was a weird issue where he'd only have 2 years eligibility at division 1. Why there is a difference between D1 and D3 in that regard I do not know, but that was why he ended up D3.

As for how he ended up at SLU, there are a lot of SLU alumni on the staff at Taft. Several teachers and administration members are SLU grads. Many a Taft player has ended up at SLU over the years due to the alumni connection.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 09, 2022, 12:28:05 PM
I love this board.  Some vexing inquiries answered in minutes. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 09, 2022, 12:37:08 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 09, 2022, 12:07:28 PM
Sibanda was going to go D1 but had an eligibility issue.  He started high school rather early back in Zimbabwe so in combination with that and his time at Taft there was a weird issue where he'd only have 2 years eligibility at division 1. Why there is a difference between D1 and D3 in that regard I do not know, but that was why he ended up D3.

As for how he ended up at SLU, there are a lot of SLU alumni on the staff at Taft. Several teachers and administration members are SLU grads. Many a Taft player has ended up at SLU over the years due to the alumni connection.

That makes a lot sense.  I am looking forward to watching SLU and him during the NCAA's.  Thanks
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Fitz@615 on November 09, 2022, 12:42:33 PM
As a parent of a D-3 player who had D-1 offers, some kids would rather play for 4 years and it not be such a pressure cooker, especially when it comes to the dog eat dog mentality of some D-1 programs. Furthermore, with so many older internationals coming over now and playing D-1, a kid might get some PT early but then never see the field again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: MNBob on November 09, 2022, 01:33:04 PM
Quote from: Fitz@615 on November 09, 2022, 12:42:33 PM
As a parent of a D-3 player who had D-1 offers, some kids would rather play for 4 years and it not be such a pressure cooker, especially when it comes to the dog eat dog mentality of some D-1 programs. Furthermore, with so many older internationals coming over now and playing D-1, a kid might get some PT early but then never see the field again.

I've always been curious how colleges use their scholarship money. With the limited number of scholarships is it more common for D1 schools to offer partial money to many players or focus on starters and then no money for the rest of the roster. What was your son's experience?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 09, 2022, 01:40:38 PM
There are numerous reasons a D1 player would go to a D3 school.  Facilitating a professional career in soccer will not be one of them.  If the player has professional aspirations, and is the top scorer in the country's best youth proving ground, or is one of the top high school prospects who plays for his country's national team, there is likely an unusual circumstance that leads them to a D3 program.  In German's and Marvin's case there was.  Looking at USL and MLS rosters, the number of D1 players listed diminishes every year as internationals take their place.  I watched Didier Drogba at a USL game--he is the 4th leading scorer in Chelsea's history.  Getting a spot as a D3 player is an extreme long shot.  There is more hope to play semi-professionally for a lower division team abroad than here in the United States for a D3 player, but these opportunities are also rare.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 09, 2022, 03:11:37 PM
On a different subject, as there is another LL team dancing, what do people know about Babson and Vassar's chances against it.  Vassar has lived off of defense and set pieces.  Babson has a ton of wins and routinely plays NESCAC teams, Brandeis, MIT and other Northeast powers.  I know very little about the teams in their conference and their strength. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2022, 03:14:30 PM
Massey has the game pretty even, which seems about right.   Babson has had injuries but I don't know if those players are back.  NEWMAC was down a bit this year when it looked like at the beginning they would have a strong season.  But Babson has the coaching pedigree which gives them a bit of an advantage.  I could see 1-0 either way.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 09, 2022, 03:17:07 PM
^^^^^Agree.  Not a Babson expert but the Bowdoin grass field should suit both of them, and I would predict a tight 1-0 game either way with decent chance goes to PKs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 09, 2022, 03:20:11 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on November 09, 2022, 09:06:03 AM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on November 09, 2022, 09:01:26 AM
He is 24 years old.  I expect him to go pro.

Is he looking to play overseas or in the US?
I don't know.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Sibanda trained with the Columbus Crew 2 last spring, I imagine if he does get a chance at a pro career it will start in MLS Next Pro or another 3rd/2nd tier league.   It will certainly be difficult to make it, but I think he's proven he deserves a shot. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: futbolfan on November 09, 2022, 05:13:53 PM
Babson will handle Vassar, 2-0 prediction.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 09, 2022, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 09, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Sibanda trained with the Columbus Crew 2 last spring, I imagine if he does get a chance at a pro career it will start in MLS Next Pro or another 3rd/2nd tier league.   It will certainly be difficult to make it, but I think he's proven he deserves a shot.

That must have been a great experience for him.  What is his major at SLU?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2022, 06:51:11 PM
He's a global studies major and by all accounts is an exceptional student.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 09, 2022, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on November 09, 2022, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 09, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Sibanda trained with the Columbus Crew 2 last spring, I imagine if he does get a chance at a pro career it will start in MLS Next Pro or another 3rd/2nd tier league.   It will certainly be difficult to make it, but I think he's proven he deserves a shot.

That must have been a great experience for him.  What is his major at SLU?

What prompted you to ask about his major?  I don't think I've seen anyone ask that question about any particular player all season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on November 09, 2022, 08:46:29 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 09, 2022, 06:51:11 PM
He's a global studies major and by all accounts is an exceptional student.

That is awesome my one son was a business major and my other is currently a Chemistry major.  It is one thing I think D3 soccer has over the other Divisions.  These player are definitely student athletes, not athletes that are students.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 11, 2022, 10:18:50 AM
Shout out to former Vassar Asst. Coach and star midfielder Ross Macklin as he attempts to help guide CMU today over Calvin. Tall task.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 11, 2022, 06:02:56 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on November 11, 2022, 10:18:50 AM
Shout out to former Vassar Asst. Coach and star midfielder Ross Macklin as he attempts to help guide CMU today over Calvin. Tall task.
Hopefully his former Vassar team will have a better day tomorrow than CMU had today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 11, 2022, 08:29:24 PM
The Calvin game wasn't pretty for a CMU fan.  However, some of the Calvin goals were works of art.  The Calvin/Kenyon matchup, like the SLU/Amherst matchup that I foresee will be quite the display of excellence in D3 soccer. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 12, 2022, 01:10:19 PM
Well at the end of the first halves in Amherst and Brunswick I had dreams of sugarplums in my head as well as SLU playing Husson and Vassar playing Merchant Marine on Sunday.  Alas, reality set back in. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 12, 2022, 04:28:44 PM
Well done Saints.
This teammis very very hard to beat.
Hats  off Roger Williams!
Very good team!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 12, 2022, 04:30:17 PM
Great save from the WolfFingers!

Had memories of 1998  during that shootout.
Lets not do that again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: paclassic89 on November 12, 2022, 04:30:58 PM
Evenly played match.  Lots of chatter about the potential matchup with Amherst and almost got tripped up in the opening round.  Survive and advance
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 12, 2022, 04:35:34 PM
Quote from: paclassic89 on November 12, 2022, 04:30:58 PM
Evenly played match.  Lots of chatter about the potential matchup with Amherst and almost got tripped up in the opening round.  Survive and advance
No one who knows football supporting the Saints overlooked RWU
They proved to be a big team.
Only 1 game at a time to do this thing.
Saints have historically done better in the Dance after a tougher first round. All this means is we go again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 12, 2022, 04:36:08 PM
If I had one of those mobile EKG things it would be telling me to go to the hospital.  This was why all week I said RWU would not be a pushover.  Very disciplined team defensively but they didn't bunker down.  Quite an entertaining match and it's a shame PKs had to decide it.   Survive and advance.

Can't watch Vassar because they have to move PKs to the turf field.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 12, 2022, 04:43:14 PM
And Vassar wins in PKs!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 12, 2022, 04:46:20 PM
Well Done LL.
2 teams in the Final 32.
Like I said over and over like a broken record.
This league does not get enough respect.
Those 2 teams RWU and Babson are extremely good teams as well.

Special shout-out to Coach Hood and the Vassar people around here.
The hiring committee obviously went with a great choice of a young, hungry yet experienced coach to take over from a legend.

Kinda like they did at SLU back in 1990 when Coach Goodwin left, but I digress.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 12, 2022, 05:01:11 PM
Results tomorrow can gain the league huge respect.  Both Vassar and SLU going an extra 20 on the road is not going to help but the adrenaline rush associated with two PK victories (especially for SLU when a kick save denied RWU the win) can overcome the tired legs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 12, 2022, 05:03:10 PM
Only one energy source runs a team bus come November. CONFIDENCE
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 12, 2022, 05:49:44 PM
All SUNYAC and Liberty League teams advanced today
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 12, 2022, 06:59:28 PM
Another 2nd round matchup between SLU and Amherst. Woelfinger will be riding high after today's heroics.  Has the makings of another classic.  Here we go SAINTS
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 12, 2022, 10:46:17 PM
I'm hearing the game will be on the grass tomorrow at Amherst.  Hopefully it will be in decent shape as SLU plays on the ground and Amherst in the air.  I hope SLU will be physically up for the challenge tomorrow after the long game with only 3 subs used. 
SLU's shots were just off today.  Sibanda had his chances but was usually over the crossbar.  The men of the match were Ben Woelfinger and Max Mogul, who beat his man every time in the wing but just couldn't connect any of the crosses into the net.  The surprise and bad call of the day was when Saint Mogul broke away and was taken down from behind just outside the box.  An easy red card.  Ref claimed that the defender touched the ball but video showed he didn't come close.  SLU looking for ref to make some calls tomorrow if/when Amherst gets physical. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 13, 2022, 11:10:58 AM
It doesn't appear that Amherst has the game listed for live video streaming. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 13, 2022, 11:21:31 AM
They seem more concerned about making sure the fire alarm goes off at the SLU hotel at 4am.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: paclassic89 on November 13, 2022, 11:37:31 AM
Quote from: SandyMac on November 13, 2022, 11:10:58 AM
It doesn't appear that Amherst has the game listed for live video streaming. Any ideas?

Yep, not seeing it on NSN yet.  If for some reason this game isn't streamed, that would be a travesty.  3.75 billion endowment and can't get a stream up smh
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 13, 2022, 11:37:54 AM
According to the SLU soccer instagram the game is on grass. From the short clip the field looks to be in ok shape, we'll just have to see how it all plays out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 13, 2022, 11:53:03 AM
Livestream also just added
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 13, 2022, 01:43:21 PM
Nightmare 1st half in Amherst.  Perhaps a blessing there is no video. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 13, 2022, 01:54:38 PM
And if you tell someone that SLU outplayed Amherst they would doubt you are say you are biased, but goals win matches.
Should be a fun 2nd half
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 13, 2022, 02:00:43 PM
Amherst has definitely hit their stride in these past few weeks.  Great squad under Serpone this year, hope the Saints can make a game of it in the 2nd half but there's no shame losing to a team like this.  SLU could have definitely played better, but it will be hard for anyone to beat Amherst if they play like this going forward.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 13, 2022, 02:01:42 PM
There is video now so you can replay the highlight and lowlights.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 13, 2022, 03:02:57 PM
All good things come to an end.  Disappointing finish, but a great season from the Saints.  Full credit to Amherst for a great performance.  They managed the game well in the 2nd half.   Sibanda cannot be replaced but the future is bright for the Saints.  All eyes now on Vassar!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slu888 on November 13, 2022, 07:19:08 PM
Tough result but the writing was on the wall a bit....huge and physical (and talented) Amherst squad, small field, SLU coming off a Shoutout win and had to play 21 hours later...

Hoping we save a few extra hotel rooms in Canton so the boys can host next year!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 13, 2022, 07:21:52 PM
I still don't know how there aren't enough hotel rooms in the radius given that Potsdam and Canton have several hotels now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: brewer_faithful on November 13, 2022, 09:39:51 PM
Those Vassar boys should be proud of their dance. New Coach, losing 2 of 3 all-league players from last season, and no true goal scorer returning yet they managed to finish unbeaten in the league and go toe-to-toe with 2 nationally ranked teams in the dance.

With no seniors graduating and more time to work with the new coach,  these boys should be primed for a breakout season in 2023. Should be fun to watch!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: nescacfan94 on November 14, 2022, 09:37:22 AM
Quote from: brewer_faithful on November 13, 2022, 09:39:51 PM
Those Vassar boys should be proud of their dance. New Coach, losing 2 of 3 all-league players from last season, and no true goal scorer returning yet they managed to finish unbeaten in the league and go toe-to-toe with 2 nationally ranked teams in the dance.

With no seniors graduating and more time to work with the new coach,  these boys should be primed for a breakout season in 2023. Should be fun to watch!

Saw both games. Vassar was very impressive this weekend. That team, if it comes back intact with a few 1st year additions, will do great things next year. They were gifted a penalty in the slop in Maine yesterday, and the result was the right one imho, but Vassar was right there, on short rest on the road after a tough game the day before.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 14, 2022, 09:51:49 AM
Vassar is quality and their first year head coach HOODwinked everyone he faced in conference and will keep doing just that.
I think the confidence a young team gets from dancing is immeasurable and Brewers will be a difficult group for a while to come. Definitely cemented tbeir status as a big team in the LL and region this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 14, 2022, 12:14:56 PM
Quote from: slu888 on November 13, 2022, 07:19:08 PM
Tough result but the writing was on the wall a bit....huge and physical (and talented) Amherst squad, small field, SLU coming off a Shoutout win and had to play 21 hours later...

Hoping we save a few extra hotel rooms in Canton so the boys can host next year!
It's a little late but doesn't this also come down to foresight and optimism from the AD?  With a scheduled home football, hockey and hosting regional cross country event, was there ever a chance?
Does SLU think they can do it again next year?  If so, the AD should limit the home games at SLU for the first weekend. The soccer team would have been a favorite to get to the second weekend rather than a huge underdog at Amherst.  Really a shame to miss out on that deserved honor.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 14, 2022, 12:57:54 PM
No guarantees with hosting even if you do a good planning for it.

They most likely would have had to beat out both Amherst and Oneonta to host.  Babson finished #1 in Reg 2 and still had to go to Bowdoin and play Vassar first round.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 14, 2022, 01:17:14 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on November 14, 2022, 12:14:56 PM
Quote from: slu888 on November 13, 2022, 07:19:08 PM
Tough result but the writing was on the wall a bit....huge and physical (and talented) Amherst squad, small field, SLU coming off a Shoutout win and had to play 21 hours later...

Hoping we save a few extra hotel rooms in Canton so the boys can host next year!
It's a little late but doesn't this also come down to foresight and optimism from the AD?  With a scheduled home football, hockey and hosting regional cross country event, was there ever a chance?
Does SLU think they can do it again next year?  If so, the AD should limit the home games at SLU for the first weekend. The soccer team would have been a favorite to get to the second weekend rather than a huge underdog at Amherst.  Really a shame to miss out on that deserved honor.
Losing socks man. It really does. I think that the boys are on the upswing. The program has been great for a long time and good programs don't have the benefit of rebuilding but have to reload while making the dance each year. That being said, SLU is a program that will be hitting them harder in the next 5 years than it did the previous 5.
Coach has found his feet and playing a style of football that can win  NCAA games and go very deep with some luck. The team learned and grew tremendously this season and has some great Saints coming back to push us even further.
Cannot blame the AD for this one, no one alive is more responsible for putting the Saint program where it is than the current AD. If there is anything that can be done to help this team I assure you he would likely be on board.
Great to have your voice all season long Saint Dad.ooking fwd to watching your boy even.more in seasons to come.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2022, 02:20:14 PM
Being a even-numbered year with men having hosting priority the first weekend, Amherst was going to be the host as the highest seed in their pod (and their quadrant overall).  Whether St. Lawrence bid to host or not wouldn't have mattered. 

Whether St. Lawrence bid to host or not, in theory, should not have impacted where the Saints were placed in the brackets as the bracketing should be completed before they start looking at hosting assignments. I'm not sure I can completely 100% believe that potential hosting options aren't in the back of their minds when forming the brackets, especially out west, but I can imagine it's minimal.  So I wonder if the committee determines who are their top 16 seeds (based on the selection/ranking criteria) and, to the extent that geography cooperates, gives them each their own 1st/2nd Round pod.  Looking at this year's brackets and the first/top teams in each pod bracket which corresponds to the highest seed in that pod, and comparing those teams to the final Regional Rankings and data, it seems very plausible that those are the committee's top 16 seeds.  St. Thomas was the highest seed in their pod but did not host--could be because they did not bid to host or because of something the committee found unsatisfactory about their field/facility/hosting capabilities.  And of all the pod top seeds, St. Thomas would also be the most questionable to have been among the top 16 seeds nationally.  Babson or St. Lawrence might have been the 16th seed nationally, but geography meant someone out west needed to host a pod of west teams (there were five Region X teams in the field, and they weren't going to fly them all to separate pods). 

So who knows, St. Lawrence may have been the 16th seed and if not for the west being without a top 16 seed, might have had their own pod (and avoided Amherst) even if they couldn't host due to not having put in a bid.  Now that's just a mental exercise and speculation on my part, and to be honest I'd guess Babson would have been ahead of St. Lawrence in the seeding and more likely to have been the 16th seed if St. Thomas was not among the top 16. Either way, St. Lawrence likely was very close to having their own pod, but when they didn't get that, geography/travel and trying to keep conference rivals separated as long as possible  (I don't think any pod has two teams from the same conference) resulting in the Saints being handed a tougher 2nd round opponent than their seeding would have otherwise earned them. 

Regardless of teams' seeding or WLT records, to have had the best shot of advancing to the Sweet 16, Messiah would have probably been better off with any of nearly 80% of the teams in the tournament over Williams.  But that's who they got.  Not all paths to the Final Four are equal, and sometimes you get a favorable path, other times not.  Champions have to win and overcome whatever they're faced with, and this year the Falcons didn't do that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kuiper on November 14, 2022, 02:39:53 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2022, 02:20:14 PM
Being a even-numbered year with men having hosting priority the first weekend, Amherst was going to be the host as the highest seed in their pod (and their quadrant overall).  Whether St. Lawrence bid to host or not wouldn't have mattered. 

Whether St. Lawrence bid to host or not, in theory, should not have impacted where the Saints were placed in the brackets as the bracketing should be completed before they start looking at hosting assignments. I'm not sure I can completely 100% believe that potential hosting options aren't in the back of their minds when forming the brackets, especially out west, but I can imagine it's minimal.  So I wonder if the committee determines who are their top 16 seeds (based on the selection/ranking criteria) and, to the extent that geography cooperates, gives them each their own 1st/2nd Round pod.  Looking at this year's brackets and the first/top teams in each pod bracket which corresponds to the highest seed in that pod, and comparing those teams to the final Regional Rankings and data, it seems very plausible that those are the committee's top 16 seeds.  St. Thomas was the highest seed in their pod but did not host--could be because they did not bid to host or because of something the committee found unsatisfactory about their field/facility/hosting capabilities.  And of all the pod top seeds, St. Thomas would also be the most questionable to have been among the top 16 seeds nationally.  Babson or St. Lawrence might have been the 16th seed nationally, but geography meant someone out west needed to host a pod of west teams (there were five Region X teams in the field, and they weren't going to fly them all to separate pods). 

So who knows, St. Lawrence may have been the 16th seed and if not for the west being without a top 16 seed, might have had their own pod (and avoided Amherst) even if they couldn't host due to not having put in a bid.  Now that's just a mental exercise and speculation on my part, and to be honest I'd guess Babson would have been ahead of St. Lawrence in the seeding and more likely to have been the 16th seed if St. Thomas was not among the top 16. Either way, St. Lawrence likely was very close to having their own pod, but when they didn't get that, geography/travel and trying to keep conference rivals separated as long as possible  (I don't think any pod has two teams from the same conference) resulting in the Saints being handed a tougher 2nd round opponent than their seeding would have otherwise earned them. 

Regardless of teams' seeding or WLT records, to have had the best shot of advancing to the Sweet 16, Messiah would have probably been better off with any of nearly 80% of the teams in the tournament over Williams.  But that's who they got.  Not all paths to the Final Four are equal, and sometimes you get a favorable path, other times not.  Champions have to win and overcome whatever they're faced with, and this year the Falcons didn't do that.

On St. Thomas, I'm sure they didn't even put in a bid to host a game because they don't have an on campus field and don't control the fields they use, which are available for rental when not in use by their primary tenants.  Their primary home field is Houston Sports Park, which is the training site for the MLS Houston Dynamo and the NWSL Houston Dash or, when that's unavailable, Aveva Stadium, which is a 4000 seat stadium at the same complex that is outfitted for the local Major league Rugby team, the Houston SaberCats.  The fields and facilities are fine, but not great when you don't know for sure if you are getting the automatic bid (and have no guarantee of a Pool C bid) until the day before the DIII selections occurred.  Since they put the Region X pod last year at Pacific Lutheran, I assumed they placed it at Mary Hardin-Baylor, which has great on-campus facilities, just to rotate it between Texas and the Northwest (given that there were two teams from each of those areas and only one from Southern California and the SCIAC).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 14, 2022, 03:27:34 PM
I definitely would have preferred to see SLU go down to Franklin and Marshall instead of Cortland.  The extra hour and 20 minutes would have been worth it.  Although I get it has to do with the regions.  But we definitely deserved it over Cortland.  They got a great draw and are an excellent team. Glad to see the SUNYAC teams doing well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 14, 2022, 05:12:02 PM
Brewer faithful welcome to the board.  Need to balance out the SLU tribe.  A number of the impact seniors like Fauth and Wnorowski and Lane have a year of eligibility left due to the lost COVID year.  What makes you think they will return?  A couple actually came back for a 5th year in 2021.  Vassar doesn't have a graduate school and putting aside financial aid its tuition is one of the nation's most expensive.  It would be nice to see them return after the great run Vassar had but as RPI found out in 2021 and 2022 having fifth years doesn't necessarily translate to success. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 15, 2022, 11:48:22 AM
Welcome Brewer.
Many of us Saints tend to gather over here where it is safe. You can get beat up on the BigDance board for stating what you think is a benign non threatning opinion :)

I am sure all the LL coaches are finalizing next seasons class as we speak.  The best recruiter might just win it all next season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hopkins92 on November 15, 2022, 11:52:40 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 15, 2022, 11:48:22 AM
Welcome Brewer.
Many of us Saints tend to gather over here where it is safe. You can get beat up on the BigDance board for stating what you think is a benign non threatning opinion :)

I am sure all the LL coaches are finalizing next seasons class as we speak.  The best recruiter might just win it all next season.

C'mon now... You had plenty of support.

:D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 15, 2022, 12:04:50 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 15, 2022, 11:48:22 AM
Welcome Brewer.
Many of us Saints tend to gather over here where it is safe. You can get beat up on the BigDance board for stating what you think is a benign non threatning opinion :)

I am sure all the LL coaches are finalizing next seasons class as we speak.  The best recruiter might just win it all next season.

On this front, it does seem like Toshack is now back to utilizing some of the recruiting tactics that have come to define the program.  NYC connection has started to come back a bit, the Toronto recruiting roared its head this season, the tall NE CB is here for another 4 years and next year a pretty high prized recruit from Orlando will be making his way to Canton.     

Vassar has a major California recruiting pipeline which paid them dividends this season, and I know Hood was hitting that trail this summer to get guys for next year.  Highly unlikely they regress much next season, if at all.  As Saint has said, confidence does a program wonders and the Brewers started a good amount of underclassmen this year who have now tasted that success and will be hungry for more.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 15, 2022, 07:39:13 PM
Vassar has been mining and finding gold nuggets in California for over a decade.  It will be interesting to see if/when there will be a recruiting boost.  After Vassar made the second round in 2012 (after their beat of Tufts motivated Tufts to win multiple national championships) their class beginning in 2013 was good but not as great as the following year when they enrolled multiple players with USSDA experience.  My surmise is that next year's class is pretty much set and the positive effects of taking Bowdoin to PKs won't be on full display until 2024.  Also helping Vassar are US News righting a wrong and moving back it back up the LAC standings, and the failure of highly rated LAC schools like Hamilton, Wesleyan, Swarthmore, Carleton and Haverford to make the playoffs and cancellation of Claremont's season due to hazing (in case the good Californians wanted to stay home).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: brewer_faithful on November 16, 2022, 09:54:23 AM
Thank you for the welcomes! Agree with a lot of what was said - I am not the most well-versed in the recruiting game. Although I agree with stlawus and others that next year's recruiting class is likely already being finalized as the ED1 application was due yesterday for Vassar. So any recruiting rewards might not come to fruition until next year as the new coach will have time to get his boots on the ground. I do hope he continues to search nationally as it has served Vassar well in the past - as others have pointed out California seems to be a goldmine.

As I said before I heard through the grapevine that Vassar's seniors would be returning for the Covid eligibility year. I believe they might have taken a gap year during the pandemic - if true 2023 recruiting class would likely be small. Assuming Hood is planning on bringing in more with the 2024 class - given this years results.

Vassar AD has to be happy - her recent hires have resulted in great seasons for mens bball & now soccer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 20, 2023, 06:21:29 PM
Man, the the SC Clinton and Tosh interviews have me itching for next year already.  I'm pretty dialed in with the d3 shooty hoops right now in the bustling metropolis of the North Country, but all this season recap stuff has me already looking forward to the 2023 soccer season.

Brewer Faithful has given some indication that a few Vassar seniors might be back, but we won't know for sure.  They were supposed to have a few back this season but they didn't return.  Same applied to RPI.  Regardless, Vassar still had a lot of underclassmen which in combination with their great finish to the season will no doubt be one of the teams to beat next season.

You can't really replace Sibanda for SLU, the kid is in his own class. I don't know if the program will have a player like him for a while.  However, the Scarlet and Brown return a lot of firepower next season.  2 seasons of Liberty League success can give a confidence boost large enough to overcome some talent gaps, if there are any.  I've got a bit of a look at the incoming recruiting class, and it definitely appears that Tosh has found his recruiting stride.  There's an all-NEPSAC Class A recruit coming to Canton.  Pretty good company to be in. This year's squad featured 2 all-NEPSAC class A alums-  Sam Peacock and Marvin Sibanda, 2 major keys to the team's recent success.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on January 25, 2023, 01:43:28 PM
Quote from: stlawus on January 20, 2023, 06:21:29 PM
Man, the the SC Clinton and Tosh interviews have me itching for next year already.  I'm pretty dialed in with the d3 shooty hoops right now in the bustling metropolis of the North Country, but all this season recap stuff has me already looking forward to the 2023 soccer season.

Brewer Faithful has given some indication that a few Vassar seniors might be back, but we won't know for sure.  They were supposed to have a few back this season but they didn't return.  Same applied to RPI.  Regardless, Vassar still had a lot of underclassmen which in combination with their great finish to the season will no doubt be one of the teams to beat next season.

You can't really replace Sibanda for SLU, the kid is in his own class. I don't know if the program will have a player like him for a while.  However, the Scarlet and Brown return a lot of firepower next season.  2 seasons of Liberty League success can give a confidence boost large enough to overcome some talent gaps, if there are any.  I've got a bit of a look at the incoming recruiting class, and it definitely appears that Tosh has found his recruiting stride.  There's an all-NEPSAC Class A recruit coming to Canton. Pretty good company to be in. This year's squad featured 2 all-NEPSAC class A alums-  Sam Peacock and Marvin Sibanda, 2 major keys to the team's recent success.

Do you have the names of some of the recruits that are coming in and where they played their high school ball?  Would love to see maybe look them up and see some highlights of their play.  Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 25, 2023, 06:02:31 PM
Looks like there are 5 so far committed to SLU.  I'm sure there are folks that linger on these boards so if I'm wrong feel free to correct me, but as it stands it looks like the 5 are:

Eric Edmonds, midfield, Proctor Academy NH
Griffin MacGillivray, midfield, Phillips Exeter Academy NH.
Nicholas Petrone, midfield/forward, Paramus Catholic NJ
Gustav Scheibler, CB/RB/LB, Dawson College, Quebec
Henry Brown, midfield, Trinity Prep, Orlando FL
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on January 26, 2023, 12:07:39 AM
Quote from: stlawus on January 25, 2023, 06:02:31 PM
Looks like there are 5 so far committed to SLU.  I'm sure there are folks that linger on these boards so if I'm wrong feel free to correct me, but as it stands it looks like the 5 are:

Eric Edmonds, midfield, Proctor Academy NH
Griffin MacGillivray, midfield, Phillips Exeter Academy NH.
Nicholas Petrone, midfield/forward, Paramus Catholic NJ
Gustav Scheibler, CB/RB/LB, Dawson College, Quebec
Henry Brown, midfield, Trinity Prep, Orlando FL
Thank you for this info. It is always nice to see what is coming in. The YouTube video of Sheibler looks nice and he has good size. Couldn't find much info on Brown or Petrone. I am sure there are other recruits that will be coming. Any info you can give when they do will be appreciated. Thanks for posting these guys.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on January 26, 2023, 06:15:59 PM
Quote from: kevdog on January 26, 2023, 12:07:39 AM
Thank you for this info. It is always nice to see what is coming in. The YouTube video of Sheibler looks nice and he has good size. Couldn't find much info on Brown or Petrone. I am sure there are other recruits that will be coming. Any info you can give when they do will be appreciated. Thanks for posting these guys.
[/quote]

My guess is Petrone played academy only (TSF) - Paramus Catholic is terrible. They're lucky to win 3 game a year.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKIPNLJ9jIM
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 26, 2023, 10:29:41 PM
I think you're right.  I'm sure it's common in other states but I've noticed that a lot of the top soccer players in NJ don't play HS soccer, they're club only.  Years back the kicker for the Fair Lawn HS football team was part of the Red Bull academy system. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SimpleCoach on January 27, 2023, 06:50:11 AM
Quote from: stlawus on January 26, 2023, 10:29:41 PM
I think you're right.  I'm sure it's common in other states but I've noticed that a lot of the top soccer players in NJ don't play HS soccer, they're club only.  Years back the kicker for the Fair Lawn HS football team was part of the Red Bull academy system.

Very true.  You also see that if kids commit early enough to a school, they drop out of the academy so they can play High School soccer.    Stupid rule if you ask me.

SC
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 14, 2023, 09:32:06 PM
Quote from: stlawus on January 25, 2023, 06:02:31 PM
Looks like there are 5 so far committed to SLU.  I'm sure there are folks that linger on these boards so if I'm wrong feel free to correct me, but as it stands it looks like the 5 are:

Eric Edmonds, midfield, Proctor Academy NH
Griffin MacGillivray, midfield, Phillips Exeter Academy NH.
Nicholas Petrone, midfield/forward, Paramus Catholic NJ
Gustav Scheibler, CB/RB/LB, Dawson College, Quebec
Henry Brown, midfield, Trinity Prep, Orlando FL
Dennis Argueta, midfield/forward, Fox Lane HS, Bedford NY

Late addition in bold to next year's SLU squad.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on February 21, 2023, 11:56:42 AM
To All Saints,

Senior Shane Hauck has put together a tape of all the goals from the 2022 season on YouTube. Some unreal goals and sequences of play throughout the video, a great representation of the style of play SLU plays. Hope everyone has a watch.

I have attached the link in this post:

https://youtu.be/F_a9GOvpiPk




Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 07, 2023, 03:28:34 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 14, 2023, 09:32:06 PM
Quote from: stlawus on January 25, 2023, 06:02:31 PM
Looks like there are 5 so far committed to SLU.  I'm sure there are folks that linger on these boards so if I'm wrong feel free to correct me, but as it stands it looks like the 5 are:

Eric Edmonds, midfield, Proctor Academy NH
Griffin MacGillivray, midfield, Phillips Exeter Academy NH.
Nicholas Petrone, midfield/forward, Paramus Catholic NJ
Gustav Scheibler, CB/RB/LB, Dawson College, Quebec
Henry Brown, midfield, Trinity Prep, Orlando FL
Dennis Argueta, midfield/forward, Fox Lane HS, Bedford NY

Late addition in bold to next year's SLU squad.

Add another all NEPSAC first teamer to next year's SLU class.  Parker Sinclair, GK, Westminster School, CT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on March 08, 2023, 06:52:52 AM
Most exciting for any fan of a program is watching to see which of the new boys turns out to be a legend.

We want them all to write their own page in the book of Saints.

Some might catch fire and pen an entire chapter like Dede, Sibanda and  Reps and Smooth before them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on April 06, 2023, 02:00:57 PM
Midfielder of the Year and another 1st team AA added to Marvin Sibanda's collection.  I've watched most SLU games over the past 10 years beginning with my time as a student, and not since DeMello have I seen a player that was so clearly a major step above the rest. Hope to see him flourish with the Portland Timbers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Newenglander on April 07, 2023, 08:26:36 AM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on January 27, 2023, 06:50:11 AM
Quote from: stlawus on January 26, 2023, 10:29:41 PM
I think you're right.  I'm sure it's common in other states but I've noticed that a lot of the top soccer players in NJ don't play HS soccer, they're club only.  Years back the kicker for the Fair Lawn HS football team was part of the Red Bull academy system.

Very true.  You also see that if kids commit early enough to a school, they drop out of the academy so they can play High School soccer.    Stupid rule if you ask me.

SC
Its a foolish rule and one that isn't evenly enforced amongst the clubs - that is a frustration and a separate thread on its own ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SimpleCoach on April 07, 2023, 10:10:15 AM
Quote from: Newenglander on April 07, 2023, 08:26:36 AM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on January 27, 2023, 06:50:11 AM
Quote from: stlawus on January 26, 2023, 10:29:41 PM
I think you're right.  I'm sure it's common in other states but I've noticed that a lot of the top soccer players in NJ don't play HS soccer, they're club only.  Years back the kicker for the Fair Lawn HS football team was part of the Red Bull academy system.

Very true.  You also see that if kids commit early enough to a school, they drop out of the academy so they can play High School soccer.    Stupid rule if you ask me.

SC

Its a foolish rule and one that isn't evenly enforced amongst the clubs - that is a frustration and a separate thread on its own ;)

Don't get me started....

SC.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on April 09, 2023, 07:40:37 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 01, 2022, 09:20:07 PM
I said it already about the Zulu Saint.
Top 5 all time, and that is after just 2 seasons and Top 5 is being very very conservative.


I remember saying the above about Marvin Sibanda in pre-season and got a bit of pushback from some.
Fact is, I saw the kid was this good the first 3 minutes I watched him play.
Some players its just easy to see.

As for SLU, it reminds me when we had 15 years of 6 foot 6 inch  center backs including Laird and Copeland.
That 6 position has had Seyfe Broak/Jethro Dede and Sibanda for the last dozen years, every one of them pure CLASS.

Looking forward to what comes next and wishing the African Saint #33/#10 all the best.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SimpleCoach on April 09, 2023, 09:54:43 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on April 09, 2023, 07:40:37 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on September 01, 2022, 09:20:07 PM
I said it already about the Zulu Saint.
Top 5 all time, and that is after just 2 seasons and Top 5 is being very very conservative.


I remember saying the above about Marvin Sibanda in pre-season and got a bit of pushback from some.
Fact is, I saw the kid was this good the first 3 minutes I watched him play.
Some players its just easy to see.

As for SLU, it reminds me when we had 15 years of 6 foot 6 inch  center backs including Laird and Copeland.
That 6 position has had Seyfe Broak/Jethro Dede and Sibanda for the last dozen years, every one of them pure CLASS.

Looking forward to what comes next and wishing the African Saint #33/#10 all the best.

Clearly don't have the SLU history, etc., but I've been a fan and think he could have been D3 POY since I first saw him last year.  He is a couple levels above most every other player I have seen.

A Blessed Easter to All!

SC.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerpapa on April 10, 2023, 10:49:27 AM
Have never seen him play.  Searched google and saw Hudl highlights from 2022.   May be a good/great player but in the first 60 seconds my scouting report would say push him right.....he is the most one footed player I have seen in a long time....with that being said he is excellent with his left and thus easily compensates for lacking a right foot.  Very smooth/confident on the ball with great vision
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on April 10, 2023, 11:13:44 AM
Quote from: soccerpapa on April 10, 2023, 10:49:27 AM
Have never seen him play.  Searched google and saw Hudl highlights from 2022.   May be a good/great player but in the first 60 seconds my scouting report would say push him right.....he is the most one footed player I have seen in a long time....with that being said he is excellent with his left and thus easily compensates for lacking a right foot.  Very smooth/confident on the ball with great vision

Sibanda does not lack a right foot, but rather is so dominant he is able to play how he wants. Anyone who watches him in game realizes he can go both ways, and does it often. If he was truly so one-footed I am sure someone would have shut him down, yet every team he played would probably agree they had no answer for him. The best player in the country. Left and right.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerpapa on April 10, 2023, 12:02:21 PM
Like I said I am not discounting him as a player and I said only based on Hudl highlights.....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on April 10, 2023, 12:41:20 PM
Don't think anyone is wrong here.  He has a dominant left foot but still is fully capable of using his right.  That doesn't mean someone won't be able to game plan for that and continuously force him right.  Whether it actually results in him playing poorly is one thing, as Saint Forever correctly pointed out he can still use his right.  He'll definitely have to take some time to get acclimated to this at the next level, but he is fully capable of adapting.  All I know is that I'm glad I got to every home game this year as it will probably be a while until we see someone like that on Sandy again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerpapa on April 10, 2023, 12:46:47 PM
Like I said Hudl "highlights" only show left foot - first 2 minutes with one touch to right foot.....Wish I could have seen him play in person - great control, vision etc (Based on hudl highlights
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on April 12, 2023, 10:02:06 PM
The Clarkson head coach position is currently being advertised.  I wonder where Carter Lincoln is off to. A bit surprising given their relative success last season.   Aside from hockey there is rarely any long term coaching tenure at Clarkson.  The baseball and softball coaches are really the only current coaches who have been coaching for a sustained period of time.  The university has invested more in athletics in recent years, but they are still well short of the rest of the league.  Their academics speak for themselves, but I wish they would do more in the athletic department. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on April 14, 2023, 12:50:17 PM
Quote from: stlawus on April 12, 2023, 10:02:06 PM
The Clarkson head coach position is currently being advertised.  I wonder where Carter Lincoln is off to. A bit surprising given their relative success last season.   Aside from hockey there is rarely any long term coaching tenure at Clarkson.  The baseball and softball coaches are really the only current coaches who have been coaching for a sustained period of time.  The university has invested more in athletics in recent years, but they are still well short of the rest of the league.  Their academics speak for themselves, but I wish they would do more in the athletic department.

Hearing Carter has taken the assistant coaching job at Syracuse.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on April 14, 2023, 07:19:54 PM
Good for him.  If they sustain their current level of success he can leverage that into a really good head coaching job. Unfortunate for Clarkson to lose another coach after only a few years.  Chris Taylor looked like he was about to turn things around before getting the Plattsburgh job.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on April 15, 2023, 09:24:52 AM
Yes, Carter will be taking the Assistant Coach position at Syracuse. While I am sad as a Clarkson alum, I am truly excited for Carter and grateful for everything he has done for the Clarkson program, both as an assistant and as the head coach.  He is truly a very gifted coach and even better person.  Being in his very early 30's I think it is a great move for him and I don't think it is out of the question to see him walking the sidelines of a higher tier D1 school in 15-20 years.  It is sad for Clarkson in that he really was building a program.  Having suffered through the Dark Ages of Clarkson Soccer getting Chris and the Carter have finally given us some hope of better things to come.  And the need for the University to do more for the athletics department has never been clearer.  For whatever reason, beyond hockey, it isn't even an afterthought to the administration. I hope we are able to make another good hire but I fear unless things change we are in the cycle of hiring a bright young talent, who after a few years sees that there is no support at the school and gets a great opportunity to move up elsewhere.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on April 15, 2023, 11:08:12 AM
Quote from: CU_GKnight on April 15, 2023, 09:24:52 AM
Yes, Carter will be taking the Assistant Coach position at Syracuse. While I am sad as a Clarkson alum, I am truly excited for Carter and grateful for everything he has done for the Clarkson program, both as an assistant and as the head coach.  He is truly a very gifted coach and even better person.  Being in his very early 30's I think it is a great move for him and I don't think it is out of the question to see him walking the sidelines of a higher tier D1 school in 15-20 years.  It is sad for Clarkson in that he really was building a program.  Having suffered through the Dark Ages of Clarkson Soccer getting Chris and the Carter have finally given us some hope of better things to come.  And the need for the University to do more for the athletics department has never been clearer.  For whatever reason, beyond hockey, it isn't even an afterthought to the administration. I hope we are able to make another good hire but I fear unless things change we are in the cycle of hiring a bright young talent, who after a few years sees that there is no support at the school and gets a great opportunity to move up elsewhere.

Look no further than men's basketball.  Within the last 20 years Clarkson has had Tobin Anderson, Jason Leone, Adam Stockwell and Mark Gilbride on their staff, almost all who were the head coach.  None of those guys stayed very long because of a lack of support, and now look at all the success they've had.   Maybe the new AD will change the philosophy.  After all, her husband is the longest tenured coach at the university, so they know it takes time and support to sustain success. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on April 16, 2023, 08:13:15 AM
Quote from: stlawus on April 15, 2023, 11:08:12 AM
Quote from: CU_GKnight on April 15, 2023, 09:24:52 AM
Yes, Carter will be taking the Assistant Coach position at Syracuse. While I am sad as a Clarkson alum, I am truly excited for Carter and grateful for everything he has done for the Clarkson program, both as an assistant and as the head coach.  He is truly a very gifted coach and even better person.  Being in his very early 30's I think it is a great move for him and I don't think it is out of the question to see him walking the sidelines of a higher tier D1 school in 15-20 years.  It is sad for Clarkson in that he really was building a program.  Having suffered through the Dark Ages of Clarkson Soccer getting Chris and the Carter have finally given us some hope of better things to come.  And the need for the University to do more for the athletics department has never been clearer.  For whatever reason, beyond hockey, it isn't even an afterthought to the administration. I hope we are able to make another good hire but I fear unless things change we are in the cycle of hiring a bright young talent, who after a few years sees that there is no support at the school and gets a great opportunity to move up elsewhere.

Look no further than men's basketball.  Within the last 20 years Clarkson has had Tobin Anderson, Jason Leone, Adam Stockwell and Mark Gilbride on their staff, almost all who were the head coach.  None of those guys stayed very long because of a lack of support, and now look at all the success they've had.   Maybe the new AD will change the philosophy.  After all, her husband is the longest tenured coach at the university, so they know it takes time and support to sustain success.
Clarkson is a big program. Was in the final 4 in the early 90s and dropped some amazing ball till early 00s with the Secko Brothers et al..

I feel really bad for the kids. The young athletes who have to deal with all the changes in coaching.
Many of us were fortunate enough to play for one coach during our careers.
The most important thing in the Coach-Player relationship is trust. Players have to earn it and Coaches have to earn it from players as well.
Not having a consistent coach, one who recruited you, or has guided, seen your development or built a bond with you is tough.

Departing coach might have a certain style of play/player that he prefers (which might be you) and the incoming coach has totally different attributes he prefers. This is difficult for people who play for Chelsea  and Man United, it is very difficult for the average student athlete, who must now impress and gain the coach of someone new half way through his career.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SimpleCoach on April 16, 2023, 08:20:02 AM
Am just curious, what is it about Clarkson that makes it difficult to retain a coach?  Don't know enough about the school to know.

SC.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on April 16, 2023, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on April 16, 2023, 08:20:02 AM
Am just curious, what is it about Clarkson that makes it difficult to retain a coach?  Don't know enough about the school to know.

SC.

Resources/support from the athletic department.  It's not that Clarkson doesn't care about their athletics, they just don't match the level of resources devoted to the department compared to the rest of the league.  I'm pretty sure the pay for coaches is well short of their league counterparts as well.  Add on to all of that is the state of the facilities.  They are really lacking in that aspect.  The best facilities are Cheel Arena, but as mentioned hockey is really the only sport that gets the full attention and devotion.  They have the worst gym in the Liberty League, and while their soccer complex is a decent turf field, there's barely any seating and it's right off a congested traffic area.  I hadn't been to a basketball game at Clarkson in a while until last winter, and forgot how dire the state of their athletic complex/offices were.  The place has obviously not had any sort of renovation or upgrade in years. 

It's baffling because their engineering counterparts in Troy are the total opposite.  RPI has incredible facilities and they take care of their coaches by giving them lots of resources and support.   I don't see why Clarkson can't do it if RPI can.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on April 16, 2023, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on April 16, 2023, 08:20:02 AM
Am just curious, what is it about Clarkson that makes it difficult to retain a coach?  Don't know enough about the school to know.

SC.

Well Coach Willie ran the program from the early 1990s to 2009.
As of the early 2000s the program started to have a bit of a downward stretch, coinciding with the switch from UCAA to Liberty League.

Then there was a change in Coach that is well documented in New York Times/Dateline and HBO Documentary Specials.

Coach Taylor took over in 2014/15 and was doing amazing work, but when his Alma Mater came calling after the retirement of the great 400 game winning coach Chris Waterbury.
This most recent Coach was actually quite talented and from the work he was doing it was always going to be difficult for the Golden Knights to hold on to him.
The best teams in the Liberty League have consistent Coaches.
SLU's Coach Tosh seems like he just got there but is coming up on a decade.
Clinton from RPI is pushing a quarter century.

Young Coach Hood from Vassar started with a bang and was arguably COY candidate. Will be tough to hold on to as well.

I rate the Clarkson program highly, and wish it success.
First thing is getting the right coach to begin that process.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on April 16, 2023, 04:15:38 PM
I think there are a variety of reasons that Clarkson struggles to retain talented coaches or invest meaningfully in their athletics department.  I don't as much think it is the fault of the athletics department itself but the larger university administration. I think the University under funds athletics and then there is little flexibility to cut funding for hockey so there just isn't much left for D3 sports.  I think the fallacy at Clarkson is that hockey it is a "revenue" sport as it draws 2600/gm for men, but on 450/gm for women.  But with season tickets being less than $200 and 18 mens and 18 womens scholarships and much greater travel demands i can guarantee it is not generating positive revenue.

The D3 side went into decline in the early 2000's when they hired an AD whose sole goal was to be a D1 AD.  So he put everything into hockey to show how he could "run a D1 program" and three years later he left for a D1 job and the D3 sports were decimated and going through what we refer to as the Dark Ages.  Willie (understandably) left soon after for SLU and an upgraded position on the skiing side.  Nick did what he could with what there was available.  There has been a little bit of a shift back towards D3 over the past 8-10 years and the new AD comes from the D3 side of the house so I think there will be modest gains.  But without a desire to prioritize the Athletics from the University Admin I don't see us making up any ground (and likely losing ground) to the rest of the LL over the next decade as our trajectory is just at a flatter rate. 

I think the truth is that Clarkson is kind of the outlier when it comes to the Liberty League and comparison to RPI is easy to make, but they are very different schools.  Clarkson has the lowest endowment in the LL at slightly under $200M (RPI is 5x at slightly over $1B) and very much has a blue collar student body that matches their motto of "A workman thats needeth not to be ashamed".  While it is an excellent school academically, it is not an exclusive school as it has an acceptance rate around 75% and the average cost to attend is about 1/3 the sticker price.  Generally it attracts middle class students who graduate and get good jobs and give a little bit of money back each year.  It doesn't have large benefactors or a means of generating an increase in funds.  I think it is a stable university, but it is feeling the challenges of being a private university located in a rural area north of the arctic circle.  Relative to the rest of LL it is certainly not at the same level financially and as a result the overall budget is smaller.  With a smaller pie you get a smaller piece for athletics.  I think the administration could do a lot more for the Athletics program (especially the D3 side) but I don't think they see it as a priority, it is just a necessary evil (expense) of being in the college business.

I think there is an ideal coach for Clarkson out there, but it likely someone who is a little bit older and has a desire to move into the administrative side of athletics and work toward an AD position (similar to the Bob Durocher career arc).  They need to be someone who loves the North Country and the quaintness of life in Potsdam who can work with the limitations of what they have.  Carter was an extremely talented coach and I know truly loved his job (most of the time anyway) and just being a coach.  I think he was driven by things that were bigger then Clarkson and he holds himself and everyone around him to a high standard.  I think it was inevitable that an opportunity to take the next step towards a higher role in the profession would come and I am excited for him that it did.

Personally I would love to see Simple Coach interview him on his way out because I think he is too good a coach and person not to leave that legacy behind for the rest of D3.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 11, 2023, 06:56:16 AM
Looks like Vassar's Eric Wnorowski is using his extra year to move up to division I and play at the College of Charleston. CofC soccer has been in the news of late with program alum Troy Lesesne getting appointed interim head coach for the NY Red Bulls.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on May 11, 2023, 09:42:14 PM
Skidmore captain Ethan Kilmnick is taking his 5th year at D1 Sacred Heart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Racoon72 on May 12, 2023, 04:21:33 PM
CU_GKnight makes some excellent points regarding Clarkson's soccer program. But I believe the ADs at Clarkson have no interest in mentoring young enthusiastic coaches into becoming successful and long standing coaches, unless (of course) they are part of the hockey program. Coach Lincoln was one win away from having the best win/loss record of any coach who ever wore the green & gold over the past 65 years. He and Coach Taylor resurrected the program from the ashes of the 1990s/early 2000s. Former President Tony Collins was an avid fan of D3 sports and fully understood the benefits of fielding competitive D3 teams. I believe his departure will also (unfortunately) have a negative affect on fund raising from D3 alumni and for future capital improvement projects, other than Cheel Arena.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 12, 2023, 05:33:17 PM
Good to see new faces on this board.   Clarkson has a new AD so hopefully things change a bit for the better.  The lacrosse team created a buzz this spring so maybe it will spill over in to the entire department with the change in regime. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Racoon72 on May 14, 2023, 12:58:58 PM
The first test for the new AD will be the quality and experience level of the coach she hires to replace Coach Lincoln.  The second test will be whether she can assemble enough maintenance repair money to replace the 15-year old soccer/lacrosse turf on Hantz Field.  Most of the discretionary maintenance money that built up over the past 10 years was used to pay for the overrun costs of the last Cheel Hockey Arena upgrades. From 2018 through 2020 Clarkson had planned on spending $40 million on the upgrades.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Racoon72 on May 19, 2023, 02:00:14 PM
The Clarkson University Athletic Department announced the hiring of Augusto Lima as the next head coach for the Golden Knights' Men's Soccer program for the 2023-24 season.  Lima replaces coach Carter Lincoln, who accepted a job as an assistant coach for defending Division I National Champion Syracuse University a few weeks ago.

Lima brings Division I and Division III experience to Clarkson, having most recently served as an assistant for Northeastern University in 2022, where he served as recruiting coordinator and goalkeeping coach. Prior to his time with the Huskies, Lima spent a season at University of Rochester as the team's top assistant for the 2021 campaign when the Yellowjackets reached the NCAA Tournament, and he also two seasons as recruiting coordinator and assistant coach for Bucknell University for two seasons (fall 2019, spring 2021).

Lima spent six years in Selinsgrove, PA, as he was a four-year member of the Susquehanna University Men's Soccer team and then spent two more years as assistant coach. The team's starting goalkeeper in his junior and senior season with the River Hawks, Lima started 27 games and posted a 1.20 goals against average in nearly 2500 career minutes, making 102 saves and collecting 11 wins and nine shutouts.

A 2016 graduate of Susquehanna University with a degree in Business Administration, Lima has a United Soccer Coaches Goalkeeping Level 3 Diploma and a United Soccer Coaches Federation D License. A native of Campinas, Brazil, Lima is fluent in English and Portuguese, and is also highly proficient in Spanish.

I wish the team much success under this new leadership!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kuiper on May 19, 2023, 02:57:49 PM
Quote from: Racoon72 on May 19, 2023, 02:00:14 PM
The Clarkson University Athletic Department announced the hiring of Augusto Lima as the next head coach for the Golden Knights' Men's Soccer program for the 2023-24 season.  Lima replaces coach Carter Lincoln, who accepted a job as an assistant coach for defending Division I National Champion Syracuse University a few weeks ago.

Lima brings Division I and Division III experience to Clarkson, having most recently served as an assistant for Northeastern University in 2022, where he served as recruiting coordinator and goalkeeping coach. Prior to his time with the Huskies, Lima spent a season at University of Rochester as the team's top assistant for the 2021 campaign when the Yellowjackets reached the NCAA Tournament, and he also two seasons as recruiting coordinator and assistant coach for Bucknell University for two seasons (fall 2019, spring 2021).

Lima spent six years in Selinsgrove, PA, as he was a four-year member of the Susquehanna University Men's Soccer team and then spent two more years as assistant coach. The team's starting goalkeeper in his junior and senior season with the River Hawks, Lima started 27 games and posted a 1.20 goals against average in nearly 2500 career minutes, making 102 saves and collecting 11 wins and nine shutouts.

A 2016 graduate of Susquehanna University with a degree in Business Administration, Lima has a United Soccer Coaches Goalkeeping Level 3 Diploma and a United Soccer Coaches Federation D License. A native of Campinas, Brazil, Lima is fluent in English and Portuguese, and is also highly proficient in Spanish.

I wish the team much success under this new leadership!

Given all the challenges faced by the soccer team based on the earlier posts in this thread, plus the late timing for the search, that is a fantastic hire for Clarkson Men's Soccer.  Lima was a really strong and ambitious recruiter, most recently at Northeastern and Rochester.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 20, 2023, 08:55:52 PM
Couple schedules have been posted.  One that stands out so far is Union's.  Total opposite non-conference slate compared to the Guinn years.   The Garnet have Oneonta, Western New England, Williams, New Paltz and UMass Boston on the non-con docket  :o
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: brewer_faithful on May 23, 2023, 11:20:48 AM
A great surprise to see so much off-season activity on these boards! Not much I can add to the Clarkson discussion although there seems to be endless Liberty League coaching connections. They need to advertise it as a lifelong job, like SLU, Vassar, RPI, Hobart, etc. and pick the right candidate. Look for someone who wants to work their for life, not just a coach who is looking at the school as a stepping stone.

As stlawus already pointed out, I was a bit early in my post-season prediction as Vassar will not be returning all of its seniors. I've heard through the school that Wnorowski and Lane will be leaving the program while the rest of their seniors, including Fauth, will stay for 2023 season. Apparently Wnorowski has already drawn interest in the US professional soccer world from his play at Vassar and during summer in USL2, supposedly taking the opportunity at CofC to gain more exposure.

In 2022 the Brewers had a top 10 SOS out of all teams in the final regional rankings. Based on a sneak preview I was given, their schedule is only getting more difficult. Sounds like there will be a wider spread of competition including more NESCAC, NJAC, SUNYAC, etc. Gonna be a quite the test for Hood in his second season, just hoping he can improve from last season!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 23, 2023, 12:59:05 PM
Fauth returning provides a big boost obviously, on top of what was already returning.  The league didn't do preseason predictions last year but at this point I'd be confident in saying SLU and Vassar would be picked 1st and 2nd in either order.  SLU loses some great players including Sibanda, but there's still a lot returning.  Several key players missed extended parts of the season last year due to injury as well.  2 first years were thrown into the back line last season and noticeably improved throughout the whole campaign, I think if the Saints have success this season it will be due to the back line resuming the program's old ways.  Hard to tell obviously until we see things in person, only 3 months away!

Seems to me that Vassar is finally starting to mold into the same program profile as the NESCACs/Centennials in that the school reputation is finally selling itself to the upper tier group of players.  Not that Vassar was ever a bad program, but being similar to the aforementioned schools they never really seemed to consistently attract the type of players that ended up there on a yearly basis.  Now they are truly a national program and it can only continue to improve the quality of the league.

Of course, this is all academic, who knows what program is lying in the weeds waiting to pounce on the upcoming season.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 12, 2023, 04:54:23 PM
Almost summer so we're all off doing our usual summer activities but given it's a Monday afternoon with not much going on I figure I'll stoke some discussion.

SLU's incoming class now up to 9.  On paper there are 6 lost to graduation, but an additional 3 players on the roster does not necessarily mean that the roster size this upcoming season will be identical to last.  I do wonder if the roster gets trimmed down, it happens most seasons.   

Saint has mentioned that Tosh has found his sea legs, which I can't really disagree with.  This year's incoming class has the usual pedigree the program has come to expect.  3 players in particular I think will make an immediate impact.  I sometimes think back to what Saint of Old said last year in that the league had a chance to bury the Saints at the end of 2021 but Tosh and the squad flipped the script and started something going forward.  Reminds me of the mid to late 2000s Durocher teams, who did not have spectacular success in terms of win % but nonetheless made league and NCAA tournament runs as a result of teams not burying them when they had the chances.  That in turn reinvigorated recruiting and elevated the Saints in the last 5 years of Durocher's tenure.

I've rambled too much on the Saints, so I'll mention the rest of the league.  Vassar has brought in a good class as well, as Hood is maintaining the Andy Jennings connections by bringing in a very wide ranging national class.  They'll be picked 1st or 2nd, as they have Fauth for a final year who was the engine to the Brewer midfield last season.  Wnorowski leaving might hurt, but added experience on the back line could alleviate his absence.

I'm curious about RIT.  It appears they're bringing back around half of last year's senior class for a 5th year so their experience could pay dividends.  They made a late run last season and with Dickersbach returning (don't quote me, I'm not 100% positive) they could make some noise.

RPI is the wild card.  They're always good, and last year was an anomaly.  They lose impact players, but there is a chance Gaudiano comes back next season.  He wasn't mentioned in any graduation posts so one would assume he'll be playing next year.  Clinton is one of the better coaches in the league, and they always bring in a good class. 

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on June 12, 2023, 10:04:28 PM
Quote from: stlawus on June 12, 2023, 04:54:23 PM
Almost summer so we're all off doing our usual summer activities but given it's a Monday afternoon with not much going on I figure I'll stoke some discussion.

SLU's incoming class now up to 9.  On paper there are 6 lost to graduation, but an additional 3 players on the roster does not necessarily mean that the roster size this upcoming season will be identical to last.  I do wonder if the roster gets trimmed down, it happens most seasons.   

Saint has mentioned that Tosh has found his sea legs, which I can't really disagree with.  This year's incoming class has the usual pedigree the program has come to expect.  3 players in particular I think will make an immediate impact.  I sometimes think back to what Saint of Old said last year in that the league had a chance to bury the Saints at the end of 2021 but Tosh and the squad flipped the script and started something going forward.  Reminds me of the mid to late 2000s Durocher teams, who did not have spectacular success in terms of win % but nonetheless made league and NCAA tournament runs as a result of teams not burying them when they had the chances.  That in turn reinvigorated recruiting and elevated the Saints in the last 5 years of Durocher's tenure.

I've rambled too much on the Saints, so I'll mention the rest of the league.  Vassar has brought in a good class as well, as Hood is maintaining the Andy Jennings connections by bringing in a very wide ranging national class.  They'll be picked 1st or 2nd, as they have Fauth for a final year who was the engine to the Brewer midfield last season.  Wnorowski leaving might hurt, but added experience on the back line could alleviate his absence.

I'm curious about RIT.  It appears they're bringing back around half of last year's senior class for a 5th year so their experience could pay dividends.  They made a late run last season and with Dickersbach returning (don't quote me, I'm not 100% positive) they could make some noise.

RPI is the wild card.  They're always good, and last year was an anomaly.  They lose impact players, but there is a chance Gaudiano comes back next season.  He wasn't mentioned in any graduation posts so one would assume he'll be playing next year.  Clinton is one of the better coaches in the league, and they always bring in a good class.

Do you know how the other 4 recruits that coming in to SLU. I know that you posted some of the recruits in earlier posts. Also wondering who are the 3 recruits that you think are going to make an immediate impact. I was wondering where the Northwood School AA Thebe Moseburgh(spelling) and Amityville AA Roberth Perez went to college. I read about them but couldn't find where they decided.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 12, 2023, 10:41:15 PM
Quote from: kevdog on June 12, 2023, 10:04:28 PM
Quote from: stlawus on June 12, 2023, 04:54:23 PM
Almost summer so we're all off doing our usual summer activities but given it's a Monday afternoon with not much going on I figure I'll stoke some discussion.

SLU's incoming class now up to 9.  On paper there are 6 lost to graduation, but an additional 3 players on the roster does not necessarily mean that the roster size this upcoming season will be identical to last.  I do wonder if the roster gets trimmed down, it happens most seasons.   

Saint has mentioned that Tosh has found his sea legs, which I can't really disagree with.  This year's incoming class has the usual pedigree the program has come to expect.  3 players in particular I think will make an immediate impact.  I sometimes think back to what Saint of Old said last year in that the league had a chance to bury the Saints at the end of 2021 but Tosh and the squad flipped the script and started something going forward.  Reminds me of the mid to late 2000s Durocher teams, who did not have spectacular success in terms of win % but nonetheless made league and NCAA tournament runs as a result of teams not burying them when they had the chances.  That in turn reinvigorated recruiting and elevated the Saints in the last 5 years of Durocher's tenure.

I've rambled too much on the Saints, so I'll mention the rest of the league.  Vassar has brought in a good class as well, as Hood is maintaining the Andy Jennings connections by bringing in a very wide ranging national class.  They'll be picked 1st or 2nd, as they have Fauth for a final year who was the engine to the Brewer midfield last season.  Wnorowski leaving might hurt, but added experience on the back line could alleviate his absence.

I'm curious about RIT.  It appears they're bringing back around half of last year's senior class for a 5th year so their experience could pay dividends.  They made a late run last season and with Dickersbach returning (don't quote me, I'm not 100% positive) they could make some noise.

RPI is the wild card.  They're always good, and last year was an anomaly.  They lose impact players, but there is a chance Gaudiano comes back next season.  He wasn't mentioned in any graduation posts so one would assume he'll be playing next year.  Clinton is one of the better coaches in the league, and they always bring in a good class.

Do you know how the other 4 recruits that coming in to SLU. I know that you posted some of the recruits in earlier posts. Also wondering who are the 3 recruits that you think are going to make an immediate impact. I was wondering where the Northwood School AA Thebe Moseburgh(spelling) and Amityville AA Roberth Perez went to college. I read about them but couldn't find where they decided.

Looks like Hobart got a recruiting coup as the Northwood student newspaper says that Mosehathebe is headed to Geneva next year.   Perez on the other hand is headed to NC State.  Mosehathebe likely starts as a first year given his pedigree, but even if he doesn't he'll probably be giving the rest of the league headaches the next 4 years.

The added recruits to the list from my first post are 2 GKs, Parker Sinclair from Westminster CT (first team all NEPSAC) and a local product Evan Widrick from South Jeff NY.     The other 2 are midfielder Dennis Argueta from Bedford NY (NY Soccer Club) and CB/LB Baker Diaz from Brooklyn (FC Copa).    I think there's a pretty good chance MacGillivray, Petrone and Brown make an impact this upcoming season.  For all I know they could not get a single minute next season and I end up looking like an idiot, but they were top targets and committed fairly early in the process and all play positions where SLU needs to replace in the starting lineup or for immediate depth.  Most of the incoming class played for MLS Next and ECNL clubs, which is the case for a lot of schools but historically been the type of talent SLU is supposed to attract.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on June 12, 2023, 11:30:53 PM
Quote from: stlawus on June 12, 2023, 10:41:15 PM
Quote from: kevdog on June 12, 2023, 10:04:28 PM
Quote from: stlawus on June 12, 2023, 04:54:23 PM
Almost summer so we're all off doing our usual summer activities but given it's a Monday afternoon with not much going on I figure I'll stoke some discussion.

SLU's incoming class now up to 9.  On paper there are 6 lost to graduation, but an additional 3 players on the roster does not necessarily mean that the roster size this upcoming season will be identical to last.  I do wonder if the roster gets trimmed down, it happens most seasons.   

Saint has mentioned that Tosh has found his sea legs, which I can't really disagree with.  This year's incoming class has the usual pedigree the program has come to expect.  3 players in particular I think will make an immediate impact.  I sometimes think back to what Saint of Old said last year in that the league had a chance to bury the Saints at the end of 2021 but Tosh and the squad flipped the script and started something going forward.  Reminds me of the mid to late 2000s Durocher teams, who did not have spectacular success in terms of win % but nonetheless made league and NCAA tournament runs as a result of teams not burying them when they had the chances.  That in turn reinvigorated recruiting and elevated the Saints in the last 5 years of Durocher's tenure.

I've rambled too much on the Saints, so I'll mention the rest of the league.  Vassar has brought in a good class as well, as Hood is maintaining the Andy Jennings connections by bringing in a very wide ranging national class.  They'll be picked 1st or 2nd, as they have Fauth for a final year who was the engine to the Brewer midfield last season.  Wnorowski leaving might hurt, but added experience on the back line could alleviate his absence.

I'm curious about RIT.  It appears they're bringing back around half of last year's senior class for a 5th year so their experience could pay dividends.  They made a late run last season and with Dickersbach returning (don't quote me, I'm not 100% positive) they could make some noise.

RPI is the wild card.  They're always good, and last year was an anomaly.  They lose impact players, but there is a chance Gaudiano comes back next season.  He wasn't mentioned in any graduation posts so one would assume he'll be playing next year.  Clinton is one of the better coaches in the league, and they always bring in a good class.

Do you know how the other 4 recruits that coming in to SLU. I know that you posted some of the recruits in earlier posts. Also wondering who are the 3 recruits that you think are going to make an immediate impact. I was wondering where the Northwood School AA Thebe Moseburgh(spelling) and Amityville AA Roberth Perez went to college. I read about them but couldn't find where they decided.

Looks like Hobart got a recruiting coup as the Northwood student newspaper says that Mosehathebe is headed to Geneva next year.   Perez on the other hand is headed to NC State.  Mosehathebe likely starts as a first year given his pedigree, but even if he doesn't he'll probably be giving the rest of the league headaches the next 4 years.

The added recruits to the list from my first post are 2 GKs, Parker Sinclair from Westminster CT (first team all NEPSAC) and a local product Evan Widrick from South Jeff NY.     The other 2 are midfielder Dennis Argueta from Bedford NY (NY Soccer Club) and CB/LB Baker Diaz from Brooklyn (FC Copa).    I think there's a pretty good chance MacGillivray, Petrone and Brown make an impact this upcoming season.  For all I know they could not get a single minute next season and I end up looking like an idiot, but they were top targets and committed fairly early in the process and all play positions where SLU needs to replace in the starting lineup or for immediate depth.  Most of the incoming class played for MLS Next and ECNL clubs, which is the case for a lot of schools but historically been the type of talent SLU is supposed to attract.
Thank you for the information. I was hoping that SLU would get Mosehathebe. He could be a problem for the next 4 years. SLU has always had a dominant player for years and I guess sometimes I just take it for granted we will have one but we will see how they do in the field.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 13, 2023, 01:05:41 AM
Nice to have another SLU poster in here, didn't know you were a scarlet and brown fan. We're growing in numbers on this board it seems.

I too was hoping they'd snag Mosehathebe, but there's a lot we don't know going down behind the scenes. It's not unusual for HS AA's to end up in dIII, but you'd rather have them than not. Myles Palmer is another HS AA without an announced destination.  He's from Fairport and SLU has mined that area in the past getting guys from UR's backyard so I imagine he was recruited as well. He's not on UR's commit list so you never know.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on June 13, 2023, 12:58:10 PM
Quote from: stlawus on June 13, 2023, 01:05:41 AM
Nice to have another SLU poster in here, didn't know you were a scarlet and brown fan. We're growing in numbers on this board it seems.

I too was hoping they'd snag Mosehathebe, but there's a lot we don't know going down behind the scenes. It's not unusual for HS AA's to end up in dIII, but you'd rather have them than not. Myles Palmer is another HS AA without an announced destination.  He's from Fairport and SLU has mined that area in the past getting guys from UR's backyard so I imagine he was recruited as well. He's not on UR's commit list so you never know.
Palmer was another guy I was hoping we could get. Another kid was the Northwood Prep player Junior Happi. I read a little about him and from what I read he appears to be very good. I know that Coach Tosh wants to build his own program away from Durocher. Just wish he would have kept up some those ties Durocher with schools MLK, Beacon and some of the other perennial hood soccer schools. Maybe he has and they want to go elsewhere. Like you said we don't know what goes on behind clew doors and I don't know Coach Tosh at all. I know Durocher though and yes I am SLU fan. I try to keep up with what is happening. That is why it is nice to have you and others on this board for some insight with players and recruits. Thank you for doing that and thanks to all the others who provide info. It is appreciated.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 13, 2023, 01:15:49 PM
The ties are still there, Mogul came through the Beacon pipeline I believe.   A lot of those schools these days are sending their players to prep schools.   Recruiting has changed a great deal even just within the last 5 years or so, especially when it comes to clubs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Another Mom on June 13, 2023, 04:48:52 PM
Max Mogul was at The Millbrook School and played club with Black Rock in their now discontinued prep academy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on June 16, 2023, 08:21:14 AM
Saint Maxima will have to step up his game even more next year to fill the shoes of the Craque on the team.
I think he has the ability to.
One of the best#7s the program has had and he has been bringing it since his freshman year.

Like everyone else, I am excited to take a look at the new crop of Saints and Statesmen Brewers etc... that is always the best part of the upcoming season.

I am more interested however to see who explodes onto the scene. That player who has been playing bad or ok, or not playing at all, who decides enough is enough and sets the league on fire.
This could be their junior or even senior year coming up, but their confidence is now where it needs to be.

I'm hoping that one or 2 Saints explode in the 23 season and write their name in the Book of Saints.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Racoon72 on June 20, 2023, 01:02:34 PM
Quote from: stlawus on May 12, 2023, 05:33:17 PM
Good to see new faces on this board.   Clarkson has a new AD so hopefully things change a bit for the better.  The lacrosse team created a buzz this spring so maybe it will spill over in to the entire department with the change in regime.

If you go to Indeed.com to look at current job openings at Clarkson, you will find a 11/22 review left by a former employee of the University.  IMO, the culture of the University plays a huge role in the success of the athletics programs at a University and the engagement of alumni.  Here is his review:

"Clarkson University is going through a dark season. They are financially struggling due to extremely poor accounting practices and unsuccessful recruiting of students. The culture is defined by a few very dictatorial leaders at the top of the organization who micromanage administrative staff and leave most employees paralyzed, unable to do their jobs because of fear. There are major culture clashes and resentments between the three campuses which cause poor decision making. The university does not work through conflict well, avoiding face to face discussions and going around people instead of discussing the conflict directly. There is a large amount of bureaucracy that makes it difficult to efficiently do work. Many good people have left the organization due to the culture and low pay, which further adds to the inability to work effectively. In general, they are not replacing the people who leave.

Feedback for improvement is not welcomed but instead met with defensiveness and retribution. This is all very sad because the university does have good work to do, has great potential, and there are some people of good character who work there."
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on June 25, 2023, 04:10:40 PM
Just FYI,
Some of the Liberty League teams have posted their schedules for next year. SLU, RIT, Skidmore(?) and maybe Bard have not. Hobart looks like they have difficult non league games from the teams that were good last year. RPI has a strong non league scheduled also. I know SLU will be playing Canton, Plattsburgh, Potsdam, Cortland, and Oneonta for some of their non league games. Well at least that what it says on the teams respective schedules. I know there is thread already for schedules but I am not great at copy and pasting into threads.
Title: Endowment Fund Ranking
Post by: Racoon72 on July 04, 2023, 02:35:42 PM
We all know the quality, comfort and availability of athletic facilities often plays a role in a new recruit's decision to play D3 soccer at a university.  I thought it was interesting to rank the current Liberty League universities by the strength of their 2022 endowment funds.  I believe Clarkson is struggling to solicit former D3 alumni in supporting their overall endowment fund and capital project campaigns. Just my 2 cents ...

RIT         1248 million
Vassar     1196 million
RPI.          864 million
Union        498 million
Skidmore  427 million
Bard         412 million
Ithaca       357 million
St. Law     353 million
Hobart      231 million
Clarkson   217 million
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shamrock on July 04, 2023, 03:09:15 PM
Divide that endowment number by the number of full time students you have on campus.  If the per student number exceeds a student's annual tuition, you're in good shape.  If it's below annual tuition, you've got work to do.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Racoon72 on July 04, 2023, 04:37:46 PM
Excellent point! 

In Clarkson's case their endowment in 2021 was $240 million, with a full time enrollment of 3953 and an average tuition of $56,258.  That would provide $60,713 of endowment $$ per student. OK status, but not by much.

But Clarkson's 2022 endowment dropped by 10% to $217 million.  If full time enrollment and average tuition stayed the same, then that would now provide $54,895 of endowment per student. Less than average tuition.  That situation would cause cost cutting measures to be imposed across the university and a delay of capital spending, especially for D3 athletic programs/facilities.

Obviously, "they have work to do!"  A new university President and a new AD, makes a quick financial turnaround that much more challenging!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 04, 2023, 06:26:43 PM
Clarkson facilities really are lacking.  20 years ago SLU saw the writing on the wall when it came to recruiting and facilities and basically overhauled the entire athletic facility apparatus.  Admittedly it helped that they had and still have alumni that donate generously to fund these projects, but I'd argue that the current state of the art facilities is a big reason why they've been able to maintain enrollment and athletic competitiveness in the age of covid.  I graduated in 2015 and still use the facilities and trails several times a week, mainly due to how nice and well maintained they are.

Aside from Cheel, Clarkson doesn't really have much to sell recruits on aside from the academic prowess of the school (which is substantial).  Walking through the Alumni Gym complex this past winter I was actually shocked at how poor the facilities were, it gave off 80s Soviet bloc vibes.  The soccer field seems decent enough but could use an upgrade, but the main thing about that complex is that there is barely any seating.  Clarkson has alums with the financial prowess that SLU donors have, so I see no reason why they can't also devote the necessary resources to get up to par with the rest of the league and division III for that matter.  The new AD regime might have all this in mind, so hopefully things start to change.  Except for SLU/Clarkson games I always root for Clarkson teams. The school is a big part of the North Country community and I'll always be equally interested in the success of the university as I do SLU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 17, 2023, 05:35:08 PM
Everyone's schedules are now up. Lot of the same from last year.  Can't see any real non challenging out of conference schedule aside from Bard.   Good to see Vassar get Middlebury, it's not often Liberty League teams play the NESCAC in the regular season.

As it stands the most intriguing matchups seem to be Hobart vs JHU and UMW, Vassar vs West Conn, MSU and Middlebury, SLU vs Cortland and Oneonta and RPI vs UMW and Oneonta.

Still not ready to make preseason predictions given there are some unconfirmed roster implications.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on July 17, 2023, 06:39:03 PM
Quote from: stlawus on July 17, 2023, 05:35:08 PM
Everyone's schedules are now up. Lot of the same from last year.  Can't see any real non challenging out of conference schedule aside from Bard.   Good to see Vassar get Middlebury, it's not often Liberty League teams play the NESCAC in the regular season.

As it stands the most intriguing matchups seem to be Hobart vs JHU and UMW, Vassar vs West Conn, MSU and Middlebury, SLU vs Cortland and Oneonta and RPI vs UMW and Oneonta.

Still not ready to make preseason predictions given there are some unconfirmed roster implications.

St. Lawrence use to play Hamilton and Middlebury on a regular basis back in the early 90's.  In fact Durocher's first 3 games as a HC was against the defending Division III champion Elizabethtown and a final 4 Division 1 Vermont.  Of course they also played in one of the best division 3 school league in nation with RIT, Ithaca, Hobart, and Clarkson as one of them being ranked in the top 5 and the others in the 10-20.  Plattsburgh St. was also on their schedule who were very good.  I think Williams plays RPI this year or they have in the past.  I am glad that the Liberty League and NESAC are plyaing against each other.  Could be a very interesitng upcoming season.  Best of luck to all the teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 17, 2023, 07:14:59 PM
Hamilton of course used to be in the league. SLU-Hamilton was always a great matchup.  Saint of Old still has open wounds as a result of the Continentals, but Durocher usually got the best of them.  The Saints are 26-19-10 all time against them, with lion's share of the wins coming under Durocher's tenure.   Overall I suspect Hamilton likes being an exclusive NESCAC member but one has to think they would be better off in the Liberty League. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on July 17, 2023, 08:14:32 PM
I new that. I just hope Hamilton's field (probably is) is bette than it was in the early 90's. It was hard as a rock. It basically was just a carpet rolled over cement. Very little cushion and was like playing on sandpaper. Have you heard if SLU has any other late players coming in for next year? Thanks for keeping the rest of us any news that you hear about SLU and the Liberty League. It is appreciated.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 17, 2023, 08:41:31 PM
Haven't heard anything about late first year commits aside from the presumed 9 incomers.   Haven't seen much if any transfer action with the rest of the league, there's usually at least a few.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 18, 2023, 02:45:15 PM
Quote from: stlawus on July 17, 2023, 07:14:59 PM
Hamilton of course used to be in the league. SLU-Hamilton was always a great matchup.  Saint of Old still has open wounds as a result of the Continentals, but Durocher usually got the best of them.  The Saints are 26-19-10 all time against them, with lion's share of the wins coming under Durocher's tenure.   Overall I suspect Hamilton likes being an exclusive NESCAC member but one has to think they would be better off in the Liberty League.
Don't get me started on Hamilton.
I was 4-1 against them in my career but that 1 loss is tough after 60 games without one.
Hamilton could be back on track after finding their feet in NESCAC. They had a great start last season but had a bad run at the worst possible time. Not that I feel sorry for them ofcoarse :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 18, 2023, 02:47:05 PM
Quote from: kevdog on July 17, 2023, 08:14:32 PM
I new that. I just hope Hamilton's field (probably is) is bette than it was in the early 90's. It was hard as a rock. It basically was just a carpet rolled over cement. Very little cushion and was like playing on sandpaper. Have you heard if SLU has any other late players coming in for next year? Thanks for keeping the rest of us any news that you hear about SLU and the Liberty League. It is appreciated.
Kevin, you sound like you were a  part of the Goodwin Era.
Coach Goodwin had many Good Wins!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on July 18, 2023, 03:49:58 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on July 18, 2023, 02:47:05 PM
Quote from: kevdog on July 17, 2023, 08:14:32 PM
I new that. I just hope Hamilton's field (probably is) is bette than it was in the early 90's. It was hard as a rock. It basically was just a carpet rolled over cement. Very little cushion and was like playing on sandpaper. Have you heard if SLU has any other late players coming in for next year? Thanks for keeping the rest of us any news that you hear about SLU and the Liberty League. It is appreciated.
Kevin, you sound like you were a  part of the Goodwin Era.
Coach Goodwin had many Good Wins!
Close. I was part of the transition from the Goodwin era. Basically Coach Durocher first 4 years. They were some lean times.Coach D was rebuilding the program back up. We had some talent but other teams collectively were just better. 93 team is when the program started to really turn it around. I am glad Coach D made the program the way it is and Coach Tosh has continued it. Hope it will be for a long time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 18, 2023, 07:35:23 PM
Quote from: kevdog on July 18, 2023, 03:49:58 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on July 18, 2023, 02:47:05 PM
Quote from: kevdog on July 17, 2023, 08:14:32 PM
I new that. I just hope Hamilton's field (probably is) is bette than it was in the early 90's. It was hard as a rock. It basically was just a carpet rolled over cement. Very little cushion and was like playing on sandpaper. Have you heard if SLU has any other late players coming in for next year? Thanks for keeping the rest of us any news that you hear about SLU and the Liberty League. It is appreciated.
Kevin, you sound like you were a  part of the Goodwin Era.
Coach Goodwin had many Good Wins!
Close. I was part of the transition from the Goodwin era. Basically Coach Durocher first 4 years. They were some lean times.Coach D was rebuilding the program back up. We had some talent but other teams collectively were just better. 93 team is when the program started to really turn it around. I am glad Coach D made the program the way it is and Coach Tosh has continued it. Hope it will be for a long time.
Good stuff Kev
Got it. You played with Scott Wycall/Chris Rose  and them boys.
Just before the Mani/Dre Era began.
I have always said the 93 and 94 teams were 2 of ny favorites man.
You guys laid the foundation and did most of the hard lifting for us to re-emerge after a 15 year hiatus from the top.
Much respect
Durocher did 25 years overall and more than anything he built it up.
Not easy to go from Bad to Good to Great and then stay there for 20 straight years.
Like you I really love watching these young men do it each year.

I think Coach Tosh has found his sea legs in the conference which is good news for us and bad news for everyone else.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on July 18, 2023, 11:11:30 PM
Yes played with Wycal/ Chris Rose. Rose was my away roommate. Just a great guy and really good player. Mani and White were freshmen when I was a Sr. That was a great recruiting class that started to put the program on the map. I believed you played in the glory days of the program. In the late 90's early 2000 if I am not mistaken. Would have loved to watch those teams played. It is nice to watch these young men play now and I try to watch as many games as I can. It is a little difficult being on that I live on the West Coast so any info on our alma mater is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 19, 2023, 01:21:42 AM
I get most recruiting info from instagram (as much as I'd like to be thought of as being "plugged in") and it appears that RPI is bringing in a whopping 15 players.  Doesn't necessarily mean every player will make the team but I can't remember a Liberty League team bringing in a class that big.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Racoon72 on July 20, 2023, 02:42:01 PM
Quote from: stlawus on July 17, 2023, 05:35:08 PM
Everyone's schedules are now up. Lot of the same from last year.  Can't see any real non challenging out of conference schedule aside from Bard.   Good to see Vassar get Middlebury, it's not often Liberty League teams play the NESCAC in the regular season.

As it stands the most intriguing matchups seem to be Hobart vs JHU and UMW, Vassar vs West Conn, MSU and Middlebury, SLU vs Cortland and Oneonta and RPI vs UMW and Oneonta.

Still not ready to make preseason predictions given there are some unconfirmed roster implications.

What ???????   Clarkson sure is playing some really, really, really, really soft pre-Liberty League matches!  Five of their matches are with such powerhouses as SUNY Canton, Russell Sage, Castleton, Morrisville State and North Country Community College (who were outscored 25-0 in their last 5 matches).  Strength of schedule kept Clarkson out of being selected as an at-large NCAA team in 2019.  Does the new AD think this approach will get Clarkson back to the NCAAs?  ARGH !!!!!!!!   So frustrating if you are a devoted Clarkson soccer alumni! C'MON MAN !!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 26, 2023, 06:47:01 PM
Nice to see the board ramping up early with some new SLU contributors as if there weren't enough already! :)  Clarkson is now competing with Union and Bard for the scheduling the most cupcakes.  It is quite a perplexing strategy.  It means the school has to win the automatic bid to the NCAA tourney or they never get there.  It is also means that your recruits know they are going to a school that will never make a national impact thereby causing quality players to look elsewhere.  In contrast to Clarkson's schedule I am tres impressed with Coach Hood's fixtures at Vassar.  West Conn who should have made the tourney last year, Brandeis in Waltham, Montclair on the road, and, in the middle of league, a home invite to Middlebury.  All of these schools should be in the mix for bids next year.  My guess is that one of the ways you keep your 5th years around is by setting a challenging schedule involving travel and some storied programs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on August 01, 2023, 03:47:51 PM
Liberty League shut out of this preseason Top 25:
https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on August 01, 2023, 04:23:57 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on July 26, 2023, 06:47:01 PM
Nice to see the board ramping up early with some new SLU contributors as if there weren't enough already! :)  Clarkson is now competing with Union and Bard for the scheduling the most cupcakes.  It is quite a perplexing strategy.  It means the school has to win the automatic bid to the NCAA tourney or they never get there.  It is also means that your recruits know they are going to a school that will never make a national impact thereby causing quality players to look elsewhere.  In contrast to Clarkson's schedule I am tres impressed with Coach Hood's fixtures at Vassar.  West Conn who should have made the tourney last year, Brandeis in Waltham, Montclair on the road, and, in the middle of league, a home invite to Middlebury.  All of these schools should be in the mix for bids next year.  My guess is that one of the ways you keep your 5th years around is by setting a challenging schedule involving travel and some storied programs.

You should check Union's schedule this year; it's actually a fair upgrade from recent seasons.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 01, 2023, 07:11:51 PM
Looks like the rankings are just a rehash of the final rankings from last year, which is normal. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 01, 2023, 08:30:35 PM
Yes, rankings are not a surprise and if they considered 2023 lineups sans first years it is unlikely that LL would have a top 25 team.  SLU lost its best player by far.  Vassar loses a stud keeper and never gets preseason respect anyway.  Kudos to Union's one year new coaching staff for scheduling some quality teams and I can't be critical of them for keeping their arch rival Albany Pharmacy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 02, 2023, 01:06:57 PM
SLU always losing its best player. We lost Chris Rose and got Mani/Dre. Lost Mani/Dre and got Dan Annan. Lost Annan got Reps Ballantyne and a bunch of Jamaicans. Lost the Jamaicans got Macky Diop. Lost Diop got Steve Watson, then Gorman/Demello/Seyfe Broak/Dede and then Sibanda.
The next few names on this list is just waiting to hit them this fall!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on August 02, 2023, 04:07:42 PM
That is the one thing about SLU is they always seem to get a great player whose skill level is beyond anyone else in the league. I hope they get one this year. I was really hoping they would have gotten the Thebe Moseburgh( spelling ?) All-American kid from Northwood but it looks like he is going to Hobart. From what I have read he could be the next great player in the Liberty League. Time will tell though for everyone and if somebody will step and take that role for SLU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 02, 2023, 07:04:08 PM
Mosehathebe will likely be a great player, but SLU is bringing in some highly talented individuals.  A good sized striker in the mold of SLU strikers of old, CAM that was first team class A NEPSAC and a winger that had a lot of D1 looks (along with plenty of other incoming players with high pedigree.)     Less than a month until the season begins!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on August 03, 2023, 03:12:27 PM
Union Garnet Chargers?
https://www.union.edu/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bubbabeans on August 03, 2023, 04:11:48 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on August 03, 2023, 03:12:27 PM
Union Garnet Chargers?
https://www.union.edu/

It beats Union iPhone Chargers  :-\
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Racoon72 on August 05, 2023, 12:17:43 PM
When you review the Liberty League soccer schedules for 2023, several of the Liberty League ADs include the "Liberty League Championship Tournament" as part of their published schedules.  The Clarkson AD has decided not to list the LL year end championship tournament in the official 2023 Clarkson soccer schedule.  So frustrating the Clarkson AD does not set the expectation that Clarkson will participate in the year end tournament by including it in their schedule!!!  She does, however, include the ECAC year end tournament for the Clarkson's men's and women's hockey teams. Setting high goals and expectations at the beginning of each season is an important part of progressing any sports program. C'MON MAN !!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kuiper on August 07, 2023, 12:06:10 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on August 03, 2023, 03:12:27 PM
Union Garnet Chargers?
https://www.union.edu/

Turns out that Union might have just gone with Garnet, but Swarthmore actually has a trademark on Garnet as a nickname (which likely would cover another DIII school in the same general vicinity at a minimum), so that's why they decided to add another word after Garnet to avoid any legal issues and ultimately chose "Chargers"

https://www.d3playbook.com/p/presidents-council-review

Quote» I Did Not Know That. Union considered just changing name to Garnet, but, and I quote, "another liberal arts college in the East (Swarthmore) has trademarked the use of the word "Garnet" by itself as its nickname. As such, we have decided to not use it in that fashion."
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 14, 2023, 03:40:29 PM
Hobart's roster is up.  They have a second HS All-American in their entering class in addition to Mosehathebe, Keegan Mulroony.  An assortment of other high school impact players.  They return as a grad student Nolan Fiero, a Seton Hall transfer from a couple years ago.  He looked like he could set the League on fire after having a brace against then 7th ranked Rochester but didn't score a goal the rest of the season.  My take on Hobart is that they are going to come out with a chip on their shoulder.  They were inconsistent throughout last season and flamed out in the LL playoffs.  Even though they made the playoffs the League coaches didn't see fit to name any of their players first or second team all league selections. (As people may know from earlier posts I subscribe to the UAA and NESCAC approach that only first and second teamers should be named otherwise based on last year's LL selections it appears that SLU's water boy might be up for honorable mention in the future--9 all league players is a tad much for a team who won league on the final day of the regular season.)  We may not know how good Hobart is until they play in the Hopkins invitational unless someone on this board can give a scouting report of the Stevens' scrimmage.  My guess is they will be in the title hunt this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 14, 2023, 05:12:03 PM
I agree with the take on Hobart.  The roster seems fairly bloated and it's not unusual for players to be listed as returners by default but then the roster gets revised and they're not their anymore, but I suspect most are on the roster.   With no overtime you don't necessarily need all the goals anymore, but that was Hobart's main problem last year.  No true goal scoring threat.  They have the coaching though and it's rare for them to be out of it more than a year or 2. 

But as always, you never know until we see everyone in action. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 15, 2023, 01:06:32 PM
Ithaca's roster is also up.  11 freshman, of which 6 are ECNL competitors and most come from top clubs.  This has been Ithaca's recruiting practice in the past--look to USSDA and top clubs.  On paper the strategy makes a lot of sense and yet in practice?  Last yeat was abysmal.  In 2019 Ithaca made the dance and beat Messiah to get there.  Two seasons later (2020 was dark due to covid) they miss the playoffs, win only 3 games and score only 11 goals.  Unless there is a freshman goal scorer among the newbies with the prowess of a Gaudiano, or Kelly or Mrlik it is going to be another long season for Ithaca. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SimpleCoach on August 15, 2023, 02:18:03 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 15, 2023, 01:06:32 PM
Ithaca's roster is also up.  11 freshman, of which 6 are ECNL competitors and most come from top clubs.  This has been Ithaca's recruiting practice in the past--look to USSDA and top clubs.  On paper the strategy makes a lot of sense and yet in practice?  Last yeat was abysmal.  In 2019 Ithaca made the dance and beat Messiah to get there.  Two seasons later (2020 was dark due to covid) they miss the playoffs, win only 3 games and score only 11 goals.  Unless there is a freshman goal scorer among the newbies with the prowess of a Gaudiano, or Kelly or Mrlik it is going to be another long season for Ithaca.

Well.... you can hear from him directly on the season ... this is hot off the presses.

Garret Eldridge of Ithaca College (https://youtu.be/-lkW7Tlmlxc)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Newenglander on August 15, 2023, 03:09:13 PM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on August 15, 2023, 02:18:03 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 15, 2023, 01:06:32 PM
Ithaca's roster is also up.  11 freshman, of which 6 are ECNL competitors and most come from top clubs.  This has been Ithaca's recruiting practice in the past--look to USSDA and top clubs.  On paper the strategy makes a lot of sense and yet in practice?  Last yeat was abysmal.  In 2019 Ithaca made the dance and beat Messiah to get there.  Two seasons later (2020 was dark due to covid) they miss the playoffs, win only 3 games and score only 11 goals.  Unless there is a freshman goal scorer among the newbies with the prowess of a Gaudiano, or Kelly or Mrlik it is going to be another long season for Ithaca.

Well.... you can hear from him directly on the season ... this is hot off the presses.

SC - Booing MLS Next players? Ouch

Garret Eldridge of Ithaca College (https://youtu.be/-lkW7Tlmlxc)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SimpleCoach on August 15, 2023, 04:13:05 PM
Quote from: Newenglander on August 15, 2023, 03:09:13 PM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on August 15, 2023, 02:18:03 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on August 15, 2023, 01:06:32 PM
Ithaca's roster is also up.  11 freshman, of which 6 are ECNL competitors and most come from top clubs.  This has been Ithaca's recruiting practice in the past--look to USSDA and top clubs.  On paper the strategy makes a lot of sense and yet in practice?  Last yeat was abysmal.  In 2019 Ithaca made the dance and beat Messiah to get there.  Two seasons later (2020 was dark due to covid) they miss the playoffs, win only 3 games and score only 11 goals.  Unless there is a freshman goal scorer among the newbies with the prowess of a Gaudiano, or Kelly or Mrlik it is going to be another long season for Ithaca.

Well.... you can hear from him directly on the season ... this is hot off the presses.

SC - Booing MLS Next players? Ouch

Garret Eldridge of Ithaca College (https://youtu.be/-lkW7Tlmlxc)

No, I was booing Penn Fusion.....

SC
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 15, 2023, 06:08:38 PM
Simple Coach--I am sooo impressed.  What a great interview of Coach Eldridge.  Comes off as a very likable guy.   I think that there a couple of reasons why a D3 coach would trash MLS Next (formerly USSDA) players.  First, they rostered some that didn't pan out, or they tried to recruit some and they were shut out.  In Ithaca's case it may be a combination of both.  This year's incoming class likely committed to Ithaca before the debacle that was the 2022 season.  If will be important from a recruiting standpoint to start strong and create the impression that 2022 was an anomaly.  The Rochester scrimmage will be very important to this team.  While scheduling Cortland immediately before Bard doesn't seem crazy given Bard's permanent station at the bottom of the LL table, the Hamilton road fixture immediately after SLU and before a road game at Clarkson is ambitious.  Caesar had ambition.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 15, 2023, 07:45:06 PM
Can't confirm yet but it seems like SLU is going to have 1 or 2 5th year returners this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 15, 2023, 07:51:18 PM
You have to remember the Bombers have a relatively new coach. Their former coach is now at the helm at Tufts.  The league is tough man. RPI is always there as is Vassar. RIT and Skidmore can beat every team in the league and Clarkson at home is never an easy game. SLU is starting to get that old swagger back so not an easy thing to have a successful LL season.  Big connection between Ithaca and SLU. Our patriarch Coach  Durocher  is an Ithaca legend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on August 16, 2023, 02:42:33 PM
Quote from: stlawus on August 15, 2023, 07:45:06 PM
Can't confirm yet but it seems like SLU is going to have 1 or 2 5th year returners this season.
I thought I heard Coach Tosh saying that the goalie was coming back in an interview with Simple Coach but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 16, 2023, 04:42:59 PM
He's one that I'm referring to. He was listed as class of 2024 so it tracks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on August 18, 2023, 11:55:56 AM
Felt like making a prediction chart for the league this year. Bias towards the Saints for sure.

1. Vassar
2. SLU
3. RPI
4. Hobart
5. Skidmore
6. Ithaca
7. Union
8. Bard
9. RIT
10. Clarkson

I see Bard picking up a win this year for sure. Coach TJ has gotten that group better every year. Clarkson bottom, SLU bias aside I think the turnover of coach will hurt them. Vassar stays strong, but SLU right behind, could be another case of ties making the difference. Player of the Year: Max Mogul.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 18, 2023, 04:56:11 PM
Not a bad prediction, butnI have to quibble with the Golden Knights at the bottom of the league and RIT at #9.
Tigers have been a solid team in the league for years.
Normally these guys make the post season and are a difficult out. Coach has been there for a while now as well. Underestimate RIT at your own risk.
I am interested to see what RPI bring to the table this season.
Last season, for them, was a sub par year, but I don't see them not doing well this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on August 19, 2023, 11:50:45 AM
I like your predictions as well.  Losing basically the entire midfield and one of the top players in the country may slow SLU down.  Important to find that starting 3 in the middle.  Any ideas of who will be starting there?  I can see McDougald and maybe Peacock moving up from defense?  Apparently there are a number of good recruits as well.  Max Mogul player of the year?  What makes you think that?  I know he missed a number of games last year with an injury.  Are you thinking he will be moving to the ten position to turn SLU into a more attacking team?  He sure likes to go downhill.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 19, 2023, 01:55:51 PM
Doubtful Peacock moves up, he's a pretty elite defender.  Had a nagging injury all last year so he couldn't get a long run of games in it seems.  McDougald likely slots into the CAM position.  He also had an injury last season and missed more than half the year, but once he came back he was one of the team's best players.  He's technically a 5th year player this season since he took the covid year off so he'll likely be a player the team will lean on. i think one of the incoming first years will start in the midfield. 

Team scored a lot of goals last year, but if there is success this season I think it will be on the back of the defense like teams of old.  They started two freshman most of the season last year who both dramatically improved as the season went on and gained valuable experience.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on August 19, 2023, 08:36:57 PM
I think Baker was also injured for most of the season and he was solid on the right side of the defense his freshman year. I was wondering if their were any transfers from other schools that came in who might be impactful if there were any.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Racoon72 on August 21, 2023, 11:30:52 AM
Clarkson has bolstered it's offense by bringing in a Section IIA Player of the Year and another All-State forward who had a goal and/or assist in every game he played in 2022.  They also added an All-State and 2-time All-CNY defensive back.  Those who underestimate Clarkson will be very, very sorry!  GO TECH!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on August 21, 2023, 04:43:23 PM
Quote from: kevdog on August 19, 2023, 08:36:57 PM
I think Baker was also injured for most of the season and he was solid on the right side of the defense his freshman year. I was wondering if their were any transfers from other schools that came in who might be impactful if there were any.

No transfers as far as I know.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on August 21, 2023, 09:15:26 PM
SLU put their roster up. Two things I noticed is Marco Wong was not listed. Don't know what happened but I thought he was solid last year especially when some of the starters went down with injury. Also there was no assistant coach listed but voluntary assistant. They also added a player, Bruno Mokumbi. Don't anything about or where he played.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 21, 2023, 09:32:18 PM
The grad assistant last year got an assistant job with Vermont within the last month, don't know if they'll replace or not.  Noticed Wong not on the roster either. Sometimes guys get injured in the offseason, but don't know if that's the case.  There are 5 not on the team that were on the roster from last season.   Mocumbi is an international from Mozambique. The first year midfielders are ballers though, I'd bet on one of them starting. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on August 21, 2023, 10:04:25 PM
Quote from: stlawus on August 21, 2023, 09:32:18 PM
The grad assistant last year got an assistant job with Vermont within the last month, don't know if they'll replace or not.  Noticed Wong not on the roster either. Sometimes guys get injured in the offseason, but don't know if that's the case.  There are 5 not on the team that were on the roster from last season.   Mocumbi is an international from Mozambique. The first year midfielders are ballers though, I'd bet on one of them starting.
Thanks for the info. Yeah sometimes players get injured in the off season. Maybe this Mocumbi can be the next great African that SLU always seems to get. Wishing for the best for all the incoming freshmen  and hope they enjoy this time on the field and off. It goes by way to fast. I also noticed that on the Hobart roster that they put out that Theo Mosenburgh, AA from Northwood is not listed. I hope he is doing ok. From what I read about him he seems like a nice kid and really good player.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 21, 2023, 10:44:40 PM
Mosehathebe not being on the roster is curious.  He was on the roster list a week ago.  I don't want to speculate, could just be an error and he's on the team but who knows. Although the group photo the team posted to their Instagram does not appear to feature him.    Northwood has turned into a pretty solid program, most of their players play at a pretty high level.  Junior Happi was coveted by all the top D3's but he's playing at Cal State Dominguez.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on August 22, 2023, 12:13:08 AM
Yeah it is curious because I saw that too a week ago. Who knows what happened but I hope everything is ok with the kid. Northwood appears to be a solid program and I was hoping SLU could get Junior Happi but he went elsewhere. Oh well. Looking forward to the new season and see what these lads have.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 22, 2023, 08:03:56 AM
A new African Saint is exactly what the Doctor ordered. Waiting on the next great Jamaican Saint but this new baller will join what has been football royalty from the Mother continent playing for SLU.
Brito/Annan/Diop/Dede/Sibanda and the beat goes on.
I recall watching Sibanda for 2 minutes and thinking GOAT.
He went on to be top 10 in scoring history/2x League MVP and AllAmerican/3× team leading scorer, all in only 3 years (because of covid)
Big shoes to fill, but the beauty of this thing is watching new exciting players.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 22, 2023, 07:29:07 PM
I will get out my picks and pans once all the rosters are posted, as well as go where others have now gone to pick a player of the year.  For both of those tasks it is important at least for me to know whether Ibrahim is playing for Skidmore, or Gaudiano is playing for RPI.  In the meantime a trivia question--what family has a son rostered on Vassar and a son rostered on SLU?  Maybe that came up last year but I didn't notice.  I have always found it strange when brothers or sisters wind up on rival college teams that may play each other multiple times in a season.  Leaves the parents and other family members in a tough spot as to whom to root for.  At least when the Van Brewers played Travis was at Tufts and Hayden was at Vassar.  That was a really successful D3 soccer family!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 22, 2023, 08:20:22 PM
The Fauths, of course.  The SLU Fauth was a late preseason addition to the SLU roster last year, I think he might have been a walk on.   Hopefully he follows the same trajectory as his brother, who developed a significant amount over the course of his career.  On one of the away broadcasts for a SLU game last year the father was sitting right behind the camera as he provided some musings about the tuition costs for sending his sons to Vassar and SLU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 23, 2023, 01:53:57 PM
Perhaps in the words of the band Styx "I've got too much time on my hands" but I was intrigued about Aidan SLU Fauth's choice of college given his brother Owen's attendance at Vassar so I learned a little bit about him.  And while I usually am trying to put a damper on all the SLU effusiveness on this thread, when SLU is choosing poster boys Aidan should be one of them.  He comes out of Keene H.S. in the top 10 (rather than 10%) of his academic class in addition to playing basketball, captaining the soccer team, and being an all state soccer honorable mention.  He wins the RPI award as the top math/science student in his high school class which means if he goes to RPI he gets $30k a year.  He could have taken the money and walked on there if not recruited, and probably would have been a recruited athlete at Union and certainly Bard.  Academically he could have gone to most of the NESCACs and Centennials where he could also have tried to walk on.  Of course he could have joined his brother at Vassar.  Yet, with all these options, he chose SLU, which was likely the hardest school in the LL to walk on for soccer and he succeeded.  I hope some day some SLU student reporter interviews Aidan and he shares his thought process on school selection and kudos to SLU for attracting students of his caliber.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 23, 2023, 03:18:59 PM
Now I have to follow this kid's career.
Nice post fan.
I appreciate the knowledge you drop on these threads. We are all biased in our own way... loving football, D3 and especially the boys playing for our Alma Mater, but none of it works without knowledgeable posters who can take out emotion and drop some facts like you just did and normally do.

This kid reminds me of National Finals MVP for SLU back in Tha day, Codename 2000.

2000 was a walk on who singlehandedly kept thr entire soccer team's GPA respectable all by himself.

He was also an accomplished tennis player in college and became a real rock star as an attorney.
After being a walk on and on the bench his first 3 years, he became a starter and leader in 1999 and scored an amazing goal in National Finals after helping us to a shutout in the Elite 8 and Final 4.

Hoping this young man has a similar trajectory.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 23, 2023, 06:00:08 PM
Totally agree and here's hoping that we get to see the Fauth brothers play against each other in the Liberty League Finals.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on August 23, 2023, 07:31:26 PM
SLU starting 11?
Any predictions?  I'll take a shot.
GK
Ben Woelfinger
Defense
Jeremy Ogango
Will Baker
First year Baker Diaz
Jackson Malary?  Is he healed?
Midfield
Mike McDougald
Sam Peacock
Max Mogul or Owen Lillis
Offense
Ryan Campbell
Sam Pijpers
Max Mogul or Kyle Graber



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on August 23, 2023, 07:47:23 PM
Looks like Bruno Mocumbi is not on the roster anymore.  I went to see an updated roster and he was not listed any more.  Maybe he just wants to concentrate on his academics which I applaud.  Doing anything extracurricular in college takes time and dedication.  Hope everything is well with him.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 23, 2023, 07:59:00 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on August 23, 2023, 07:31:26 PM
SLU starting 11?
Any predictions?  I'll take a shot.
GK
Ben Woelfinger
Defense
Jeremy Ogango
Will Baker
First year Baker Diaz
Jackson Malary?  Is he healed?
Midfield
Mike McDougald
Sam Peacock
Max Mogul or Owen Lillis
Offense
Ryan Campbell
Sam Pijpers
Max Mogul or Kyle Graber
There is a man who follows the program.
Not a bad bet for the starting 11, but I do think a couple more freshmen will force their way on to the starting team, if not now, then in the very near future.

Hope young Jackson is ready to give us a great year.
I played with his old man, the great Styles, he could drop a 30 yard diagonal from his left back position and hit a winger in perfect stride on a consistent basis.
Love to see the next generation writing their own pages in the Book of Saints.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 23, 2023, 08:45:17 PM
We're probably annoying the rest of the non SLU folks on here, but this is one of the best times of the year so I'll partake.  I'll throw a starting XI prediction out. 



                            Pijpers

Graber                                           Mogul

          MacGillivray           McDougald

                            Lillis                         

Casner       Malary           Peacock       Ogango
                       
                        Woelfinger
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on August 23, 2023, 11:21:51 PM
Quote from: stlawus on August 23, 2023, 08:45:17 PM
We're probably annoying the rest of the non SLU folks on here, but this is one of the best times of the year so I'll partake.  I'll throw a starting XI prediction out. 



                            Pijpers

Graber                                           Mogul

          MacGillivray           McDougald

                            Lillis                         

Casner       Malary           Peacock       Ogango
                       
                        Woelfinger
Flip Ogango with Peacock and replace Casner with Baker and I really like. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 24, 2023, 11:46:40 AM
Interesting to note that Kev and StLaw don't have Ryan Campbell, last year's freshman of the year, in their starting XI.  If they are right it will probably be the first time in LL history that a returning FY player of the year is not a starter.  In Campbell's case he wasn't a full time starter last year either--in fact he started less than half the games he played in.  Unless last year had like the worst LL freshman class ever there certainly had to be at least a full time starter who was an impact player and who could have been honored.  If not, it is amazing how the quality of last years freshman class had fallen. The LL has had some great FYs over the years--Gorman, Kelley, Jansen, Mrlik, Gaudiano, Dede just to name a few. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on August 24, 2023, 03:03:24 PM
Ryan became a key player for the Saints the second half of the year with his breakout game coming at RPI with a clutch goal in the final minutes to give SLU a tie.  I expect him to be a starter and a key part of the Saints offense. He is a very tough player and great in the air with his head. 
The question mark for this team are the three midfielders.  A couple freshmen may get involved off the bench, but quality and experience are with McDougald.  Owen Lillis should see a lot of time as well.  But I think the key moves would have Peacock moving up as defensive mid with his quality defense and ball control and Mogul moving to CAM with his playmaking ability and quickness in getting ball back in the middle.  You then can start both Ryan and Graber on the wings with Pijpers as the striker.  Newcomer Brown can come off the bench to help on offense.
The defense should still be solid with Freshman Diaz, Baker, Jeremy and Malary.
With this lineup and hopefully some improved bench players, I can see this team being a high powered scoring team that won't give up many goals.  Without the right three in the middle, I see a frustrated offense with an overworked defense.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 27, 2023, 01:18:51 PM
RPI's roster is up after an extremely disappointing year for Coach Clinton (who I deeply admire) and his staff.  A losing season after retaining three grad students including Brezak, their 4 year starter at goalie, and Silva, their leading scorer with perhaps a record number of pks in a season.  One reason for the disappointment was the loss to injury of Gaudiano, who had the best first year since Gorman at SLU many moons ago.  I thought it was 50-50 whether Gaudiano would return or go D-1.  He still has 2 years eligibility and it would be like a Juco transfer to a Socal school like UCI or UCSD that has great graduate programs.  Perhaps one of the knowledgeable posters on this board can explain the general absence of Juco transfers to D3 schools.  One reason may be Gaudiano's love of Coach Clinton (I get it) and a "Be true to your school like you would to your girl" mentality.  Another may be that soccer injuries are difficult to come back from during the next year.  The absence of touches and the lasting physical effects are two reasons.  Looking at the 2023 roster RPI is a hot mess.  In addition to losing their longtime goalie and leading scorer they have recruited 15 freshmen.  Presumably some of them don't make the final squad but there they are 1 week before the first real game. (I just tried to access the roster to confirm my math and it has been taken down.  Maybe the coaching staff has reconsidered some of the 15 names.)  I am predicting another tough year for RPI.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 27, 2023, 04:15:59 PM
As far as the lack of JUCO transfers in the league, I think a lot of it comes down to demographics.  All Liberty League schools offer good aid and scholarship opportunities, but if you don't come from a family of significant means and don't have the grades to get scholarships then you're probably facing a significant cost to attend.   Often times players go to a JUCO school because of grades, and while it doesn't mean they'll have bad grades in JUCO, when you combine that factor with the JUCO pool comprising of many players slotted to transfer to D1 along with the aforementioned dynamics, the pool for potential Liberty League transfers is reduced quite a bit.   

As for RPI, I think they'll either be similar to last season or at the top.  They had some bad luck last year, but a part of that I think was still a correction from 2021.  They had a good 2021 regular season but won a lot of games 1-0 which was just not sustainable (Clarkson learned that last season as well).  That carried over a bit last season.   They're usually not out of it for long though and still bring back a few 5th year players.     I did not think their 5th year keeper last season played well, and while you can't count out experience there's a chance they are better off this year at the position. 

Skidmore broadcast their scrimmage against Oneonta the other day. Ibrahim is there as expected, but Oneonta had the better of them the first half.  I didn't watch the 2nd half but I assume they mixed and match lineups like most teams do in scrimmages.   

SLU wrapped up a preseason trip to Ottawa where they played St. Francis Xavier and Carleton.  It's odd how the Canadian teams treat those games like non-conference matches on their schedule whereas they are scrimmages for SLU.  Good competition either way, will be excited to see the team in action this Friday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 27, 2023, 06:09:38 PM
I agree with you that in the past cost was a barrier for Juco transfers.  However, some schools like Vassar have followed the Ivies, University of Chicago and others that basically give you a free ride if you come from a family with an annual income under a certain level.  I would think that the coaches from schools like Vassar would look for players from low income families that can get a great education for little cost.  Thanks for the update on Ibrahim.  For those who picked Max Mogul to be this season's LL POY that is a way long shot.  First, I agree that he will be playing outside mid.  I can't remember an outside midfielder winning the award.  Second, there are too many better returning players including SLU's keeper.  The top 5 players last year were Sibanda, above everyone else, and the next three in whatever order were Ibrahim, Fauth and Woelfinger, and then Vassar's keeper Wnorowski.  The middle three are back.  You add Gaudiano to the mix and it makes it a bridge too far for a junior returning LL honorable mention.  In terms of picking between Ibrahim, Fauth, Woelfinger or Gaudiano--if Gaudiano is fully recovered then flip a coin.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 28, 2023, 08:44:27 AM
I love Saint Maxima. His game is very good and his IQ is quite high. He came in as a quality player, much like former #7 Andrew Bednarsky from back in the day. Switching from out wide to the middle is not an easy thing at this level, and without him wide we also lose alot.
History tells us that players have dominated this league from out wide as well. Especially those ones with speed to burn.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on August 28, 2023, 01:09:10 PM
We will see if Mogul has a breakout year.  I expect with the loss of some of SLU's best players a new leader of the midfield and offense will emerge. Mogul will cause a lot of problems for the oppositions defense and I expect Saint Maximus to cause them fits as he moves positions from left wing to right wing to CAM.  He will be explosive wherever he is.  He will have a target on him I expect.  But with his passing ability he will be able to find Pijpers and incoming striker Brown, who I am expecting to score a lot of goals.  We will also see if Ryan Campbell will continue to improve on his freshman season and become a goal scorer. Peacock and McDougald will hopefully stay healthy and control the middle. With a tall striker, Campbell who is good in the air, and a 6'3" freshman Diaz who may be starting at defense, we may see a different approach to corner kicks this year as they may be able to be a force in the air in the penalty area. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 28, 2023, 02:01:43 PM
I am not questioning Max's skills.  I remember watching him in 2021 when SLU lost 2-0 to Vassar in the league regular season.  Max was the best SLU player on the pitch that day.  Crazy that that was the last LL game SLU has lost.  Speaking of Vassar, they return 9 of 11 starters with the only question mark being goalie.  They are loaded.  People may forget that there were two teams that didn't take a loss last year in LL play, SLU and Vassar, and that there was only one team in the year of ties that didn't lose a league or NCAA game, and that was Vassar. After Sibanda, Fauth was the best midfielder in the league.  The Vassar recruiting class was not huge, and oddly has no California players (Bard in contrast has 3).  The most interesting addition is Jackson Allen who had an unbelievable senior year tallying over 100 points.  He is big and seemingly would be the perfect partner for Duncan Keker up top.  There haven't been many dynamic duo forwards in the LL.  The last two were probably at Bard in 2015 with Shenberger and Byrne who were the two leading scorers in the league that year.  Why Allen lands at a D3 school instead of a D1 program like nearby Seth Curry's school means that there is probably some aspect of his game that needs significant development.  However, if his impact is close to what he accomplished in high school Vassar is going to be very scary.  I don't want to be overly optimistic for Vassar and Allen.  Soccer can be cruel.  In 2012 Vassar brought in one of its best HS recruits, Ivan Shapiro, a highly touted forward with USDDA and Regional ODP experience who was going to be a twin threat with Tom Wiechert.  Sadly, Shapiro never played in a game.  If Allen can be a force with Keker up front Katie bar the door.  Last year a large portion of Vassar's goals came on set plays.  They did not score a goal from the run of play in the LL tournament or the NCAA tournament.  I think they will be better at scoring from the run of play this year and will take the league for the first time since 2016.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 28, 2023, 03:21:24 PM
One thing I'll be paying attention to is the recruiting side of things as it pertains to 5th years.  One has to wonder if all these schools that have been retaining 5th years, especially schools that are not very conducive to 5th year players in terms of grad program apparatuses, will start missing out on recruits.  Have players who would normally commit moved on to a different school or entirely different league?  Time will tell.   It's had an effect on the basketball side of things, as this year SLU has a very talented transfer coming in who fell through the division I cracks as a result of rosters being full due to 5th year players.     With soccer the roster sizes are more fluid so maybe this dynamic won't play out, but it's something I'll be keeping my eye on. 

As for deutsch, soccer is indeed a cruel sport.  I would not be shocked to see predictions play out as expected, but I would not be shocked if one or both of SLU and Vassar disappoint this year and someone else burns through the league.   I wouldn't bet on it at this point, but with all the variability that you see year to year it could certainly play out in the LL.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 28, 2023, 05:30:11 PM
The recruiting issue is a valid and interesting take.  I don't know how to explain RPI's roster which is up again-4 Grad students and 16 freshman.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 28, 2023, 09:17:37 PM
Deutschfan,
I think we both an appreciation for the talents of Coach Clinton.
I believe this guy is class and a very good coach.

It would not surprise me if he makes a run with his group, even though most in the league might not expect him to.

This team tied SLU last season 2-2  and had the Saints on the ropes for large parts of that game.
Last season I really think they got unlucky with a few results.

My sleeper team is RIT, I think this team is good, well coached and will sneak up on a few people.
Vassar are slight favorites in my book because of reasons mentioned  previously.
Hungry young team, and coach is a great combination.

Cant wait for this season to start.
Will be very difficult to pick a top 6 this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 29, 2023, 01:50:56 PM
Coach Clinton is a gentleman with a tremendous on-field demeanor and soccer knowledge.  I can see why 16 freshmen would want to play at RPI.  Assimilating that size of entering class is going to be a challenge.  In terms of predictions, I think the top three are easy and each can make a case for a preseason number one choice--Skidmore, St. Lawrence and Vassar.  Skidmore has the top returning goal scorer, St. Lawrence returns the top goalie, and Vassar returns the top midfielder.  I also think the bottom 2 are straightforward--Bard and Union.  It is going to take a while for Bard's California recruits to make an impact, and for Union to benefit from stiffer preseason competition.  I like your call on RIT and would slot them 4.  RPI could be anywhere from 8 to 5 depending on Gaudiano's injury recovery.  I really liked Simple Coach's interview of the Ithaca Coach but he left out one important question--how is Ithaca going to score goals this year?  I have the malaise continuing and would put them in the bottom 4.  For me Clarkson and Hobart are the biggest wild cards but one or both should make the playoffs.  Those are my predictions.  I am ready to have egg on my face.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Crossit4fun on August 29, 2023, 05:31:14 PM
My sons squad (New Paltz) scrimmaged RPI last week and RPI did not look as strong  as last year when we scrimmaged them. It was a good match overall. Recognizing it was just a scrimmage, they played 3x30's the first third was primarily both squads started. RPI definitely subbed more in the second third and the last third was all non-starters.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 30, 2023, 10:01:57 AM
Thanks for the scouting report on the scrimmage and congrats to your son. NP is an up and coming program with 3 back to back LL contests this year. What's your scouting report on the team as a whole?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Crossit4fun on August 31, 2023, 07:56:04 AM
NP have a very good back 4 this year and a good GK the strength of the squad.
Midfield is solid not spectacular but getting better. Have one really good MF and a couple with potential. Forwards lack size. Lack a true Striker they had a transfer in this year that flashes some skill need to see more. Last few years NP struggles to score goals.
They moved the around really well against RPI much better than in the past.
If they can play the season the way they did the first 45 min against RPI they will
Be improved.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 31, 2023, 08:14:08 PM
So RPI has one of the more intriguing LL openers tomorrow traveling to VA to play Mary "We Knocked Amherst out of the NCAA Tournament after Amherst thrashed SLU" Washington. If RPI puts up a good fight it will be a harbinger of positive things to come.  West Conn gets to prove at home that last year's win over Vassar was no fluke and remind last year's NCAA voters that their exclusion was a mistake.  Union starts its new era of scheduling tough non-conference fixtures with a really tough non-conference fixture--Oneonta.  Props to Union whatever the score.  Clarkson gets to renew its acquaintance with its old coach Chris Taylor on the road in another contest that will tell a lot about a team's future prowess in the Liberty League.  Finally, Brockport and RIT, coming off of strong years, try to break the tie that started last year's season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 31, 2023, 08:27:32 PM
Not sure that 4-2 can ever be classified as a "thrashing", but I agree with all other points made.
That Mary team is quite something I think.
They really announced themselves last year and played some good football all tournament.

I think Union does deserve props for going against a regional power to open the season. I think guys on this board were making this suggestion as long as I can remember.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 31, 2023, 08:31:21 PM
LL Prediction

1. Vassar
2.SLU
3. RIT
4. Hobart
5. RPI
6.Skidmore
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 31, 2023, 08:41:34 PM
Will not be in attendance for tomorrow's SLU game due to funeral services for an immediate/close extended family member, I wish all Liberty League teams the best of luck in tomorrow's fixtures and hope for a great season for all involved!  (as long as it's not at SLU's expense of course). 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 31, 2023, 09:44:16 PM
Brother Saint, you have my condolences man. I cannot imagine the shock and then the pain you are feeling.

I know I speak for everyone here and in Saint Nation that our heart goes out to all your  loved ones and wishing you strength and peace in this very difficult time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 31, 2023, 10:15:40 PM
My condolences as well from a fan wo greatly respects the Saint nation even when tweaking them every once and a while.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on August 31, 2023, 11:19:22 PM
My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 01, 2023, 06:50:18 AM
My condolences STLAWUS to you and your family.  Looking forward to more of your posts in the near future. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Crossit4fun on September 01, 2023, 11:55:56 AM
Quote from: stlawus on August 31, 2023, 08:41:34 PM
Will not be in attendance for tomorrow's SLU game due to funeral services for an immediate/close extended family member, I wish all Liberty League teams the best of luck in tomorrow's fixtures and hope for a great season for all involved!  (as long as it's not at SLU's expense of course).

God bless peace to you and your family
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Crossit4fun on September 01, 2023, 11:57:55 AM
One of Brockport best players hurt his knee near end of season not sure he will be healthy to start the season

Quote from: deutschfan on August 31, 2023, 08:14:08 PM
So RPI has one of the more intriguing LL openers tomorrow traveling to VA to play Mary "We Knocked Amherst out of the NCAA Tournament after Amherst thrashed SLU" Washington. If RPI puts up a good fight it will be a harbinger of positive things to come.  West Conn gets to prove at home that last year's win over Vassar was no fluke and remind last year's NCAA voters that their exclusion was a mistake.  Union starts its new era of scheduling tough non-conference fixtures with a really tough non-conference fixture--Oneonta.  Props to Union whatever the score.  Clarkson gets to renew its acquaintance with its old coach Chris Taylor on the road in another contest that will tell a lot about a team's future prowess in the Liberty League.  Finally, Brockport and RIT, coming off of strong years, try to break the tie that started last year's season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Golden_Fan on September 01, 2023, 01:55:55 PM
As far as I know, he is fit and ready to go. Watch out for his brother as well.

Quote from: Crossit4fun on September 01, 2023, 11:57:55 AM
One of Brockport best players hurt his knee near end of season not sure he will be healthy to start the season
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 01, 2023, 04:37:42 PM
So far a day of biblical simile--the last will be first and the first will be last--Bard wins 3-1 and Vassar goes down early 2-0 on two horrific defensive plays. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 01, 2023, 05:18:33 PM
i hope that SLU doesn't go back to the style of play of the keeper having a lot of touches but so far Woeflinger has had a lot.  There were times when they could have easily attacked Genesoe's defense but played it backwards. Lots easier when watching then playing.  Need toget more men in the box though. Hopefully the 2nd half can lead to some goals with all of this possession. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 01, 2023, 05:35:57 PM
Overall I thought SLU looked pretty good in the first half.  I like that they're attacking more with their corner kicks, bringing in Baker Diaz from defense to go for headers in the box.  First year Baker Diaz is looking very good.  Peacock strong in the middle.  Max Mogul had 5 shots, but was over the frame too many times, almost scoring on a diving header at the end of the first half.  I'm expecting SLU to finally break through as they get more confidence and hopefully take more risks in the attacking zone.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 01, 2023, 08:15:21 PM
Overall I thought it was an average game although Mogul had a nice opportunity that would have have been a sensational goal at the end of the 1st half. Diaz in the back was solid and very composed for a freshman. Brown did all right but I think he was little surprise that just because you get touched doesn't mean you're going to get the foul. He is young, so hopefully he can get better. Seems like they had more juice when Pijper, Campbell, and Oglech, came in. I like how Campbell plays. He gets the ball and attacks the defense. This puts the defense on their heels and it's not fun.  I thought McDougald played steady. He appeared to get frustrated with some of his passes weren't going where he wanted them but that will improve.  Peacock was solid and just does the little things.  Baker as well was solid.
The one thing that they are missing is that dominate player who is head and shoulder above everyone else. Before they had Sibanda and Dede, but this year they don't have one of those guys. It's early but so maybe someone will step up and be that player.  The other thing that I have noticed is open field tackles in the offensive third. For some reason, Durocher's team were really good at that and they would quickly change the attack. The season is early so hopefully they fixed the stuff they need and start scoring some goals.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Crossit4fun on September 01, 2023, 09:29:36 PM
Quote from: Golden_Fan on September 01, 2023, 01:55:55 PM
As far as I know, he is fit and ready to go. Watch out for his brother as well.

Quote from: Crossit4fun on September 01, 2023, 11:57:55 AM
One of Brockport best players hurt his knee near end of season not sure he will be healthy to start the season
Good to read he is back, never want to see a college player hurt.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 02, 2023, 01:49:56 PM
A very inauspicious start for the Liberty League, 2-4-3, with Bard and Hobart getting the only wins against lower tier programs.  My top three teams Vassar, Skidmore, and SLU manage to score one goal total, a soft penalty for Vassar at that, and Vassar hasn't scored in the run of play now in 4 games.  Woelfinger saves SLU against a team they normally own, Coach Tosh leaves 14 players on the bench, and last year's LL rookie of the year doesn't start.  RIT and Brockport will have to wait til next year to break their tie and RPI travels to Virginia to get shellacked by Mary Washington.  Clarkson loses to its former coach on a keeper mistake in the last 5 minutes (can't defend against keeper error) but at least Union can find solace in playing Oneonta close.  The worst loss was Vassar's.  Other than goalie they returned their entire defense from last season.  The first two goals were on giveaways, and the backbreaker was a penalty after a defender steamrolled a West Conn forward in the box.  They started a sophomore goalie over a junior and senior, and he does not inspire confidence.  Fauth was without a shot other than the gratuitous penalty.  Vassar put 17 players on the field, West Conn played 24.  This is the third year in a row Vassar has lost to West Conn after a 7 game win streak.  The 2021 loss probably cost them a NCAA bid. Vassar was able to avoid the same fate by going undefeated in League last year.  West Conn is going to be a RR team and unless Vassar repeats its last year's league success their season is already on the brink.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 03, 2023, 09:19:07 AM
Re the SLU first game vs Geneseo, we see that the strength right now is the defense. As Deutschfan points out, Woelfinger saves the day.  Ogango came off the bench and played very well on defense, even delivering a beautiful ball to Mogul, who's diving header would have been on the highlight reel for years to come.  I expect Ogango to get the start going forward along with first year Baker Diaz who played all 90 minutes.  Diaz has great foot skills.  He and Malary are about 6'3" and they go forward on corner kicks which created chances.  I'd like to see them treat some direct kicks on the opponents side the same way and bring them up (just as Amherst did to them in the NCAAs last year).  Will Baker seems fit and injury free as the fourth defender.  Peacock has moved up to midfield and his ball control is needed there.  Hopefully he can stay injury free.  McDougald also played well, although I'd like to see him take more chances on the attacking side of the field.  The midfield needs to improve as they gave the ball away too many times.  Hopefully the team is a bit deeper than the first game showed, only using 4 substitutes, with first year Arguetta coming on only because of Peacock's injury.  Ryan Campbell showed a lot as a substitute.  Last year's LL rookie of the year attacked the defense and made them retreat, opening up opportunities.  I expect to see Campbell starting going forward, or at least playing a lot more than 36 minutes today.  Coach tried a few different options at striker.  Newcomer Henry Brown showed promise, but between he and striker Pijpers, they had one shot between them.  They had the most success on offense when Mogul (who I didn't expect to play striker) spent some time there and received a through ball that he could have converted as well as the already mentioned delivery from Ogango.  Mogul seemed to play 3 or 4 different positions, attacking many times from the left.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him at CAM more during the game.  This would also enable Campbell to get more playing time.  He is needed on the pitch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 03, 2023, 10:28:02 AM
Geneseo's beatdown of Skidmore was a huge plus for SLU. It shows Geneseo is a quality side. For Skidmore it bodes another year of a middling overall record that will prevent it from ever receiving an at large bid which it hasn't in forever.  Often the bridesmaid, never the bride. Ithaca's scoring woes continue. League has now played 11 games and it is 2-5-4. That should improve today as Vassar should easily handle MSM. Cortland is a monster game for SLU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 03, 2023, 01:57:27 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what happened to Griffin MacGiviliary?  Is he injured?  I thought we would see a lot more of him playing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 03, 2023, 03:01:14 PM
Thanks to all for the offers of condolences.


Complete self destruction for SLU today. They were the better team the first half and didn't give Cortland anything but like what often happens in these games, did not bury two good chances.


Completely unnecessary hand ball for the PK, which followed up with an error of old. #5 has good size and foot skills but was a bit shaky at times unfortunately gave the game away with the team's obsession of back passing that doomed the team before Covid.   He knows he made a mistake and I feel for him, definitely a learning moment.  Woelfinger played like a first year, extremely timid on 50/50 balls and was directly responsible for the 3rd goal.

Mogul was the only player who thought that the object of the game was to score goals, as Pijpers had his back to goal all game and continuously dropped to the midfield.

Unless this is a fluke or they clean it up, this squad is in for a rude awakening next weekend in Oneonta. I would normally think pool C chances were done and dusted but since the committee thinks SOS is the only criteria that matters who knows anymore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 03, 2023, 03:17:12 PM
Agree.  I think #5 was in due to his height but he looked very timid when the ball was played to him and his touch was not that good, imo.  i dont't what he was thinking on that 2nd goal.  The PK was just a dumb mistake and to make matters worse made the Saints play with a man down most of the 2nd half.  Not a good recipe arainst a team like Cortland.  The third goal was just a bad pass from Woeflinger.  I can see where he wanted to go but he missed it and the Cortland player buried it in the net. This might hurt SLU chances for at-large bid.  I thought SLU was had more chances in the 1st half.  Mogul hit the crossbar and Lillis just missed after a great run by Mogul.  Diaz continues to be composed and solid back there.  Oliguachhad a nice game until he got tired.  Peacock and Baker also.  It seemed it was very hot and humid in Canton as a lot of the players were getting tired especially if you are a man down.  Hopefully things will get better next week.  They are going to have fine a way to score or it could be a long season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 03, 2023, 03:38:48 PM
Surprised to see Hobart drop a 3-1 game also, this one to Muhlenberg. League is off to a slow start, but it's happened before. 

I agree with Kevdog about Diaz. He does not play like a first year, he has an air of confidence and swagger about him. The heat wasn't great and there was no cloud cover so the elements could have played a factor for the defense, but the first half they were very sharp.

And again I'd normally think that even though it's 2 games, pool c is over but I can't say that anymore given the fact that the committee doesn't care about losses anymore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 03, 2023, 07:35:24 PM
Sorry St. Law you came from one funeral to view another at Sandy.  I will let the Saint standard bearers carry the commentary on today's game.  Muhlenberg's humbling of Hobart just demonstrates what a sad state Keuka soccer is in.  I am totally on the Bard band wagon now.  They were cracking shots from way out today like defender Kotlowitz's bomb after two dribbles about 35 yards out for the game winner.  Both weekly honors should go to a Bard player.  Ibrahim and Pastor-Valverde's brace, and Keker's hat trick generated more points than any Bard player but the goals were meaningless in their respective games.  Moreover, besides being at the top of the LL table right now, Bard has the bestest team photo with everyone smiling, and two of the prettiest coeds (hope the word coed is still politically correct) acting as support staff.  Who wouldn't want to play at a school where the players are happy, the staff is beautiful, Chevy Chase is an alum, and you are on the Hudson.  No wonder west coast players are looking to come to Bard.  Speaking of west coast, Duncan Keker enters some rarified air at Vassar with his hat trick joining in the past decade Nano Pereira, Tom Wiechert, and Mattie Mrlik.  All of these players are Californians.  My Vassar trivia for the day.  One other thing about Vassar's 8-0 win over undermanned Mount Saint Mary's, why is the coaching staff letting players take shots in a 7-0 contest with less than 10 seconds left in a game?  Nearby Mount Saint Mary will carry a grudge for oh, about a century.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 03, 2023, 07:40:06 PM
I was actually going through Bard Soccer's instagram account and a few months ago there was a pic of Kostecky and Chevy Chase at an alumni event.  Maybe they are actually using him as a recruiting pitch lol.  Certainly wouldn't hurt to try.  A competitive Bard team would do wonders for the league's strength of schedule. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 03, 2023, 08:22:49 PM
Chevy Chase not only attended Bard, but he was on the soccer team. A Nov. 2, 1964 clip from the Bard Observer (which I can't attach because it says the uploads folder is full) says he scored twice in a 7-5 loss to Marist, and scored the only goal in a 4-1 loss to Union early in the season that fall.

(The clip says Bard lost its first four games to Nyack Missionary College, Marist, Union and Army JV. Hartwick was next on the schedule.)

That said, seeing him at graduation this spring was unusual. He's never been a big donor, but one of his homes is in Woodstock, which is 10 miles from the Bard campus, so maybe there's hope with that relationship.

Another pair of guys who didn't want to come back to Bard? Donald Fagan and Walter Becker of Steely Dan. When they were undergraduates, they formed a band called "The Leather Canary," and their drummer was ... Chevy Chase.

It's true:
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/how-chevy-chase-almost-became-steely-dans-drummer/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 03, 2023, 09:37:46 PM
Soccer is a game of inches and capitalizing on mistakes.  SLU missed two goals in the first half by inches.  Perhaps the scorcher by Mogul off the top post actually bounced in the goal and then out.  And the Owen Lillis shot set up with some fancy footwork and good vision by Mogul beat the goalie but missed by a couple of inches. Could easily have been 2-0 at the half.  In the second half, Mogul tried to take things into his own hands with a great run from the left byline, winning a penalty kick and connecting on it.  It was after that when Cortland capitalized on three SLU mistakes.  Handball in the box for a red card penalty kick.  Played a man down for 40 minutes in the heat.  Weak back pass to Woelfinger, and then a Woelfinger pass to the opposition.  Each mistake built on the previous.  This shows how these games can be decided by an inch here and a mistake there.  Both went against SLU today.  Hopefully SLU will find another scoring threat besides Mogul.  The other 4 forwards have a total of 3 shots in the first two games.  Mogul has 9.  Maybe Mcdougald.  Big weekend coming up. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Racoon72 on September 04, 2023, 11:48:08 AM
A very interesting start to the Liberty League season!  The results of several games came down to a handful of unfortunate miscues.  I believe discipline and decision making "in the moment" will play a major factor in the standings this year.  Red cards by emotion players, can ruin the momentum of even the best team.  Defensive miscues can be very demoralizing to offenses trying to mount a comeback.  Hopefully all Liberty teams will learn from the mistakes of their fellow league players and the rest of the season will provide competitive contests filled with spectacular goals and saves!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 06, 2023, 09:24:02 PM
3-0 night for the League.  Union's 3-1 win over WNEU the best by far.  WNEU are a perennially competitive team and were CCC finalists last season.  Time will tell if Union has improved but a reasonably close performance against Oneonta and 3-1 win tonight is a good start. 

Vassar has drubbed who they were supposed to thus far, need to see more of them against better competition.

Clarkson will certainly take their 1-0 win over Morrisville given how dominating they were through the run of play. Their goal bounced off of 2 or 3 Morrisville defenders as well as the keeper, but a goal is a goal.  The Golden Knights were unlucky to not bury a few more.  Gotta win the games you're supposed to which Clarkson did.

SLU might feel a little better about the Cortland game after Cortland smokes Manhattanville tonight.  SLU was in control of that game until the red card.  I might just be coping though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: brewer_faithful on September 07, 2023, 07:29:15 AM
This Vassar team is back on track. After a disappointing game to open up against West Conn - these boys have put up 13 goals in two games. As others said results need to come against better opponents so this weekends game should be a good test. Very excited to see how the boys do in the coming weeks before conference games start.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 07, 2023, 08:59:34 PM
Was looking forward to watching Bard tonight but it seems lightening had other ideas.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on September 07, 2023, 09:08:21 PM
Quote from: stlawus on September 07, 2023, 08:59:34 PM
Was looking forward to watching Bard tonight but it seems lightening had other ideas.

I live just over the river from Bard and this was one of the most intense lightning storms I've ever seen here. They couldn't have even started until maybe an hour from now (9:07 pm as I post) if they were lucky, and there may have been storm damage to contend with.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 08, 2023, 08:45:17 AM
I see that Marvin Sibanda did not turn pro and is using his final year of eligibility to play at Oklahoma Wesleyan, an NAIA division 1 school ranked in the top 20.  I wish him the best.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 08, 2023, 03:09:41 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on September 08, 2023, 08:45:17 AM
I see that Marvin Sibanda did not turn pro and is using his final year of eligibility to play at Oklahoma Wesleyan, an NAIA division 1 school ranked in the top 20.  I wish him the best.
My man has started all three games and has already registered an assist.
Crazy how a player can spend only  3/4 of his eligibility at a storied program and still leave firmly entrenched in the #SLUGOAT debate.

Wish him all the best.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 08, 2023, 03:37:46 PM
I am glad that Sibanda is doing well.  Wish he use that last year of eligibilty to play for SLU but understand that he needs to move on.  Hope Tosh can find that next great player or someone needs to step it up.  It seems they always find that player who above everyone else.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 08, 2023, 04:51:10 PM
I knew something was up when this spring the USL 2 team Little Rock Rangers announced Sibanda was on the team.  That's mostly a collegiate summer league.  It's a lot harder to play an extra year at a school like SLU when you don't have a full scholarship and there's no real graduate program apparatus.   Vassar has a similar situation but I'm pretty sure several of their 5th year players took semesters off, which comes with its disadvantages (and advantages I suppose).   It's why I'm looking forward to the covid year players cycling out so we will have a good understanding of eligibility as well as the playing field being level again. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 08, 2023, 10:19:38 PM
While the transitive property of soccer is very erratic, tonight's RIT result against Geneseo puts its LL opponents in this ranking:  1) RIT; 2) SLU and 3) Skidmore. I feel your pain about Sibanda.  Playing in the middle of nowhere for a NAIA program that won't do anymore for his professional aspirations than playing a 4th season at SLU. There are plenty of D1 programs who would have given him money and would him far greater exposure than a NAIA school.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 08, 2023, 10:28:45 PM
I do not think he was eligible to play D1, since he only had 2 years eligibility to play D1 if he matriculated to a D1 program as a first year. 

NAIA has some really good programs, but he was limited in his 5th year options.  At least with NAIA he likely has a full scholarship. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 09, 2023, 07:06:58 AM
Quote from: kevdog on September 08, 2023, 03:37:46 PM
I am glad that Sibanda is doing well.  Wish he use that last year of eligibilty to play for SLU but understand that he needs to move on.  Hope Tosh can find that next great player or someone needs to step it up.  It seems they always find that player who above everyone else.
I think they may have that player this year.   Let's see if he can put a couple in the net today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 09, 2023, 09:59:08 AM
Thanks St Law. I was thinking about the Amherst POY who spent his graduate year at Maryland. on a different subject, Vassar heads to Waltham for an interesting UAA tilt. Brandeis had some great NCAA runs pre covid and last year flamed out in the UAA.  The last time these teams met was in the second round in 2012 after Vassar had dispatched a Tufts team that would win a national championship the next year. The game against Brandeis was an up and down affair with great chances on both sides. In the last minute Sam Ocel broke Vassar's hearts. I hope this year's Vassar team can even the score, although the Brandeis squad does not look to be the same stature as the 2012 team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 09, 2023, 03:57:39 PM
Somehting must be wrong with the feed for the Hartwick/SLU game because it is not coming up and the live stats still say it is pre game.  Anyone else having this problem?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 09, 2023, 04:02:18 PM
I just got a stream come up momentarily, seems like there must have been a delay. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 09, 2023, 04:02:56 PM
Quote from: stlawus on September 09, 2023, 03:59:49 PM
Yea they crapped the bed on this one it seems.  Unless there is a delay, but there is 0 communication from Hartwick right now about any of it so there's no way to know.

Honestly, this has been the worst season for streaming I've seen thus far and we're only 2 weeks in.  It was more reliable 10 years ago when it was still a fledgling enterprise for most schools.  The parents of these kids likely plan out their weekend to be able to stream these games, I'm sure they are thrilled with the situation.
Yeah I thought maybe it was the weather but I checked the Oneonta game and the weather seemed to be fair.  Your right. It was much better 10 year ago.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 09, 2023, 04:03:30 PM
And oh lord do we have the uniform I've been waiting for.  Saints are decked out in a fresh brown kit.   I've wanted to go back to the browns, at least as an alt uniform, for quite some time. 

(deleted a previous comment since it aged like milk on the surface of Mercury)  Oneonta moved their game up an hour, and with this game being delayed it makes me think there might be some lightning.  There have been several games cancelled due to lighting this week, and Vassar had their game in Boston delayed because of it today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 09, 2023, 06:14:40 PM
It's the year of the implosion for SLU.  Another horrific defensive miscue costs them.  You simply never see a SLU opponent regardless of quality make the mistakes this team makes.  Penalty was also blasted into the Catskills.  They've pretty much erased any pool C chance and it's only 3 games in.   If they want any hope of pool C they have to beat Oneonta, and given the history of this team in Oneonta it's not a bet I would take. Vassar is far and away the class of the league right now.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 09, 2023, 06:34:33 PM
Quote from: stlawus on September 09, 2023, 06:14:40 PM
It's the year of the implosion for SLU.  Another horrific defensive miscue costs them.  You simply never see a SLU opponent regardless of quality make the mistakes this team makes.  Penalty was also blasted into the Catskills.  They've pretty much erased any pool C chance and it's only 3 games in.   If they want any hope of pool C they have to beat Oneonta, and given the history of this team in Oneonta it's not a bet I would take. Vassar is far and away the class of the league right now.
Yup.  The ball got tangled up in Diaz's feet.  I feel sorry for the kid but that is the breaks of the game.  Got a nice assist on the goal but unfortunately he got two of them today.  I still like the kid. Hopefullly he can bounce back.  SLU dominated the game but they lack imagination in the offensive third and they need to attack quickly when the ball is switch.  They have numbers up and too many times I see the guy stop and pull up and then play it back.  That PK is still traveling to the Catskills and probably to the Berkshires.  That was not well taken.  Again they do not have that player that is above everyone else.  Maximus was no where to be seen today.  Does anyone know what has happened to McVillary(spelling).  I was anticpating he be a valuable contributor to this team but he has not played yet.  Is he hurt, sick? Hopefully this team can turn it around or it will be a long season.  This is a game they should have won.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 09, 2023, 07:07:25 PM
There are a few players out due to injury or something else, maybe he has something going on.

Hobart is going through similar pains that SLU is experiencing, as one of their CBs whiffed a clearance leading to the game winner for Mary Washington.

RPI also not playing very inspired right now with a 0-0 draw against a seemingly resurgent Plattsburgh. 

Clarkson won another game they were supposed to.

Skidmore, I just don't know.   Don't know what to think of the league until we start seeing some head to head matchups.  Either everyone is simply getting up to speed and having bad luck, or these teams are simply not high quality.   Truth probably lies somewhere in between.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 10, 2023, 12:07:20 AM
Agreed, a tough loss, I mean tie, for SLU.  First of all, I wish Sam Pijpers well as he was taken by ambulance to the hospital after the last play of the game resulted in a head collision with a Hartwick player. 
Pijpers started the scoring but couldn't finish on a beautiful run by Mogul, showing off his quickness and speed, who fed Graber who laid a perfectly weighted drop bass to Pijpers.  His shot unfortunately went over the crossbar.  As mentioned by stlawus and kevdog, his pk to win the game had the same misfortune.  I was surprised that the coach didn't have Mogul take it as he completed the last one with ease.
Hartwick put one man on Mogul for the entire game.  Mogul played in the middle today and with the added attention given to him, Graber, Ryan, Pijpers and Brown saw the ball more. 
The aggressive Brown drew the penalty.   
I Dont believe Griffin is hurt.  It's coaches decision not to play him right now. That may change soon.  Lillis seemed to get banged up today.  We will see if he gets back on the pitch tomorrow. 
Graber played well but needs to adjust his corner kicks to be lower liners. His popups were easy pickings for the goalie.  Oneonta will be tough, especially on short rest with many players playing all 90 today and Pijpers seems unlikely to play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 10, 2023, 09:17:09 AM
Yes.
We all wish the Dutchman well.
He has had a really strong start to the season. These boys are still adjusting to playing without an All-Time great Saint in their ranks. This is very hard to do. Not since the 97 season (PostDre/Manny) has the team had to adjust to such a massive loss of individual talent. These boys have been playing well, defending as a team and still undefeated this season with 11 men playing despite going up against good competetion. This is how the guitar players develop hard fingers that allow them to play well for longer periods.
I have all the faith in this team and Coach to have a good season. We just need a game or two more to get the red train rolling right!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 10, 2023, 02:32:12 PM
SLU-Oneonta moved up to 3 PM for any interested parties.

Hobart seems to have a very enigmatic start to the season every year, would not be surprised to see them defeat JHU.

Union will be looking to build upon their good start, they had a good draw yesterday against New Paltz and could have scored a few more goals.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 10, 2023, 02:55:28 PM
Someone was asking why the SLU Hartwick game was postponed yesterday.   Apparently a referee go pulled over by the police and that delayed him.  Today they start early. Perhaps they are trying to beat the rain. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 10, 2023, 03:51:24 PM
SLU better get this midfield figure out or it will be a long 2nd half. I understand no Pijper, Peacock and a don't think I saw Baker in there but they are just getting beat to the ball.  If I was Tosh I would be looking for a big target man that can hold the ball up front and can score goals but that is a lot easier said than done. Woeflinger has kept them in the game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 10, 2023, 03:59:56 PM
Pijpers injured.  Brown got injured 8 minutes into the game. So both true strikers out.

Peacock injured 2 minutes into the game, with Baker seemingly having his minutes managed as a back to back wouldn't be great for him after his return from a major ankle injury. Peacock's replacement also got injured. 

Team is having to make due here.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 10, 2023, 04:17:52 PM
SLU is reeling from injuries, but Oneonta got the softest penalty I have ever seen.  Hard enough as is, impossible to overcome home cooking like that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 10, 2023, 05:06:53 PM
Piling up for SLU.  Tons of injuries, poor performance, bad luck, you name it. Plenty of time to turn it around, but this is just not going to cut it right now.   

Hobart also reeling down 1 to JHU right now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 10, 2023, 05:09:01 PM
Quote from: stlawus on September 10, 2023, 04:17:52 PM
SLU is reeling from injuries, but Oneonta got the softest penalty I have ever seen.  Hard enough as is, impossible to overcome home cooking like that.
That sure was especially since Oneonta was knocking the SLU players around hard in the 1st half and the ref let it go.  I liked Campbell at striker position more than Brown. It seemed like the team was just going through the motions today. I know that it was back to back games but that is what the NCAA tournament is like.  Also this is how it was back in the 90's.  One thing about Durocher teams that no one can argue is they were in great shape. There were two shoes in your locker- your cleats and your running shoes.  Your running shoes wore out before your cleats though. Hopefully the boys can get rested and recoup from their injuries before league play in 2 weeks. Defensively I think SLU is doing very well just have to figure out how to score some goals.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 10, 2023, 05:09:25 PM
These back to back games in division 3 soccer are difficult on a team, especially one who only plays a few subs.  I don't think div 1 soccer has back to back.   Minutes will need to be managed for Vassar bard weekend.  Silver lining is more kids got some experience.  There is also no pressure for a pool C pick.  Only conference games and tournament matter now so I expect to see more subbing in the coming non conference games.  Without Will Baker, Henry Brown, Sam Pijpers, Sam Peacock.  These two games every year early in the season with a short bench are tough on the kids.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 10, 2023, 05:18:32 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on September 10, 2023, 05:09:25 PM
These back to back games in division 3 soccer are difficult on a team, especially one who only plays a few subs.  I don't think div 1 soccer has back to back.   Minutes will need to be managed for Vassar bard weekend.  Silver lining is more kids got some experience.  There is also no pressure for a pool C pick.  Only conference games and tournament matter now so I expect to see more subbing in the coming non conference games.  Without Will Baker, Henry Brown, Sam Pijpers, Sam Peacock.  These two games every year early in the season with a short bench are tough on the kids.
[/quote

I agree and I know that time has change but these games definitely prepare you of how tournament time is like.  Like I said this is how they use to do it due to traveling cost I believe.  Exceed was your friend back then. Durocher would make you drink it after the first game.  Think carbo loading.  I know that he is a freshman but Brown has not really impressed me that much.  Myabe my expectations were high for him.  I like Campbell better in his place. Very impress with Diaz though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 10, 2023, 06:39:22 PM
SLU still has a chance to avoid this being another 2019.  Based on the League's performance so far, this could be one of the weakest overall in memory.  There hasn't been a win against an upper echelon quality team in the first two weeks of the season.  Vassar stands out because it has scored a lot of goals against weak opponents and was 14 minutes away from beating Brandeis when nature intervened.  Based on what I saw of that game Brandeis will be a cellar dweller in the UAA again this year.  RIT may be quality as it had a good win against Geneseo but I thought Geneseo was decent because it tied SLU and beat Skidmore.  Now I don't know.  Hard to bemoan the Oneonta result when SLU has zero shots on goal--can't win without them. SLU has six returning all-league players if you count McDougald from 2021, including DPOY and ROY. That is the most of any team in the league. 0-2-2 with ties against two very average teams is very disappointing, bad luck and injuries not withstanding.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 12, 2023, 11:39:16 PM
Restricted to live stats because of Paywall U but a pretty decent performance by RIT tonight. Down 2-0 pretty quick and took the lead late in the game. Unfortunate to give up a very late equalizer, but showed that their crosstown rivals are not at a level above them.

RPI looked better but I still don't know about them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 13, 2023, 06:12:19 PM
RIT looks like the class of the league.  Almost got a W against Rochester in the first point gained by a LL team against a quality opponent.  It doesn't help that RPI and Hobart had to deal with the top ranked team in the nation.  RIT may make its first NCAA appearance since joining the LL.  Saint was right in his preseason assessment of them.  Horrible loss for Vassar at home today against another RR team.  Unless they can obtain a miracle result at Montclair, and against Middlebury at home, their Pool C hopes are pretty much toast.  There won't be many opportunities to play regionally ranked opponents in league games given the league's pre-season futility.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 13, 2023, 09:06:31 PM
RIT has a lot of 5th years so it appears their experience is paying some early dividends.   Very surprised by the Vassar result.  Union managed a tie at New Paltz over the weekend, Vassar was at home. Stats seem fairly even too.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Soccer BTN on September 14, 2023, 09:53:45 AM
RIT started slow against a much more organized UR. Conceded early and struggled to maintain any meaningful possession. Questionable PK given as the UR player was going down before contact and was possibly outside of the box. However, referee decisions are absolutely part of the game so fair play to UR's Santi Ponce Ocampo for forcing the referee to make a call.

The combination of Dickerbach, Pottle, Donahue, and Price gave this team a real threat going forward. UR's defenders struggled with Dickerbach's size and created space for others to operate 1v1. Price was a marked man - UR kept the same defender on him regardless if he switched sides. Have to wonder if it was fitness or something else that forced him off a few minutes after scoring the go-ahead goal in the 85th - it was his replacement that conceded the free kick that led to UR's equalizer.

This game should pay dividends for RIT down the stretch as they responded well to keep the game from getting away early. Two late goals but they will need to be better at closing games down the stretch. For a program that was a serious contender in the 1980s under the late Head Coach Doug May, RIT hasn't made it back to the NCAA Tournament since 2004. Maybe they take advantage of the rest of the LL being down compared to years past.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Recon on September 14, 2023, 11:24:49 AM
All true... RIT is legitimate contender- they are an experienced team and at times displayed a relentless attack. If they can clean up some things in the back, they will challenge for the LL title. That said, constant light rain and slick conditions made it difficult for each side's defense. Also of note, UR's attack is much improved with multiple weapons lurking around the box. The first penalty was iffy, but there was a second take down in the box that was a clear penalty- the referee was not going to award a second in the half. RIT plays Vassar at home the last game of the season which could have large implications. For now, RIT will be riding a wave of confidence.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 14, 2023, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: Soccer BTN on September 14, 2023, 09:53:45 AM
RIT started slow against a much more organized UR. Conceded early and struggled to maintain any meaningful possession. Questionable PK given as the UR player was going down before contact and was possibly outside of the box. However, referee decisions are absolutely part of the game so fair play to UR's Santi Ponce Ocampo for forcing the referee to make a call.

The combination of Dickerbach, Pottle, Donahue, and Price gave this team a real threat going forward. UR's defenders struggled with Dickerbach's size and created space for others to operate 1v1. Price was a marked man - UR kept the same defender on him regardless if he switched sides. Have to wonder if it was fitness or something else that forced him off a few minutes after scoring the go-ahead goal in the 85th - it was his replacement that conceded the free kick that led to UR's equalizer.

This game should pay dividends for RIT down the stretch as they responded well to keep the game from getting away early. Two late goals but they will need to be better at closing games down the stretch. For a program that was a serious contender in the 1980s under the late Head Coach Doug May, RIT hasn't made it back to the NCAA Tournament since 2004. Maybe they take advantage of the rest of the LL being down compared to years past.
Shout out to Doug May... one of if not the best Coach to do it in these parts or nationally. RIT and Nazareth can testify to how great of a Coach he was. Count myself lucky to have played against a Doug May Coached team... He is the Coach the the Great coaches call GOAT
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 14, 2023, 12:40:49 PM
Yes Doug May was one of the greats if not the greatest.  Had the chance to play against his teams who were dominate nationally.  Usually ranked in the top 5 in country. He told some officials that SLU was one of the best shapes teams that he has ever seen. Said their outside backs kept on overlapping throughout the games they played which frustrated their forwards cause they had to chase them. His teams skill level and organization were top level.  He was truely a classy coach and individual.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Crossit4fun on September 14, 2023, 02:42:17 PM
Observations from the Vassar - NP match you would not get from the stats. NP scored with 5 min left header off a free kick that just dropped luckily under cross bar.

Vassar dominated the play in the first 20 minutes. They had several close in chances just roll wide. Vassar had many more quality chances to score in fist half and ad the edge in quality chances in second half but much closer than first half. Biggest difference was the NP GK was the star of the show made three BIG time saves in the first half that normally all three you would expect find the back of the net. He had two more in the second half as well. Vassar GK made a couple of very nice stops as well one off a free kick just outside the box.

Vassar MF #10 and Forward #2 had their way with NP Starters most of the fist half. After both teams subbed a couple of players in the fist half NP played better and generated some pressure. Have to give NP some credit for not folding and not giving up but luck just not on Vassar's side.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 16, 2023, 01:48:39 PM
Hope College shows there is hope for any team in any game.  Their goalie stood on his head as it sounds like the New Paltz goalie did.  It reminds me of when in 2011 Vassar was playing No. 1 and unbeaten SLU in the semis of the LL tourney.  Grimme stood on his head and stopped 15 shots leading to a penalty kick win for Vassar.  Interesting game today in Montclair pitting the leading scorer in the nation against the leading scorer in the LL.  It will be intriguing how Vassar marks Montclair's former freshman All-American.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2023, 10:58:53 PM
New Paltz might be the real deal, Skidmore struggling out of the gate. 

Union a bit unlucky, but they are a lot more competitive this year and Plattsburgh seems to be getting back to their winning ways.

RIT probably disappointed to draw with SJF but all bets are off in rivalry games.

UR avenges their loss to Hobart last year by running them off the field.

More props to Bard for a perfect record so far.

Ultimately a draw with Brockport isn't the worst thing, but like deutsch has said Ithaca has some questions about goal scoring.

Good result for Vassar on the road at MSU.  Scored a pretty good goal to open things, but MSU is too good to not equalize.

Lots of injuries/players resting for SLU but they take care of business against their route 11 rivals.  Very impressed with Henry Hart who got his first collegiate start filling in for some injured players.  Mogul continues to prove to be SLU's best player. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 16, 2023, 11:50:30 PM
SLU finally ends their streak of bad luck.  No injuries and they score a goal and get the clean sheet.  Sure, they could have and maybe should have had one or two more, but they looked good back on their home field and some players filling in really stepped up.  Owen Lillis moved to left back and played an excellent game.  Jeremy Ogango was terrific playing center mid sending some beautiful diagonal long balls to the wings (Graber and Mogul).  Mike McDougald played a lot more aggressively, taking more risks in the opponents half.  Henry Hart and Dennis Arguetta are looking a lot more comfortable out there.  With one non-conference game remaining against Canton, I hope they can get out to a big lead in the first half in order to see some more players come off the bench so they can get some experience before conference games begin in a week.  Would love to see how first year Griffin MacGillivray looks on the field.  Max "Magic" Mogul continues to create on the field, sometimes when there seems to be no room at all.  He seemed to slow in the second half before he came out.  Hopefully Max can keep his energy up as they need him.  Hoping to see Jackson Mallary, Sam Peacock, Sam Pijpers, and Ryan Campbell returning from their injuries soon. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 17, 2023, 12:16:51 AM
SLU played nice today. Should have had some more goals if it wasn't for some great saves from Potsdam players saving the ball off the line. Ogangbo and Diaz seems to be a nice combination back there. They are both steady, solid players.  I would love for some of the other players to take on some of the defenders especially when they are on the offensive third on the sidelines like Mogul does. I think some of them do have the ability and worse case is SLU gets a corner out of it. Arguleta appears to being getting comfortable. Hope it continues. I wish someone would just sit down with Brown and tell him that you are not going to get the call every time you get touch. This ain't high school any more so stop looking at the ref with your arms out. At one time the ref just looked at him and shook his finger and head no. He is young so hopefully he will learn. Hope to see all the injure players back soon. League play starts next week.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Crossit4fun on September 17, 2023, 09:24:01 PM
Watched about 35 min of the Ithaca / Brockport match. Brockport created more chances and had the better of the play but Ithaca did generate a couple of chances.

Skidmore are in shambles, totally dominated by NP. Skidmore had trouble connecting passes when they got across midfield which was not too often.

Oneonta hosts NP Wednesday will be a measuring stick match for NP.

Quote from: stlawus on September 16, 2023, 10:58:53 PM
New Paltz might be the real deal, Skidmore struggling out of the gate. 

Union a bit unlucky, but they are a lot more competitive this year and Plattsburgh seems to be getting back to their winning ways.

RIT probably disappointed to draw with SJF but all bets are off in rivalry games.

UR avenges their loss to Hobart last year by running them off the field.

More props to Bard for a perfect record so far.

Ultimately a draw with Brockport isn't the worst thing, but like deutsch has said Ithaca has some questions about goal scoring.

Good result for Vassar on the road at MSU.  Scored a pretty good goal to open things, but MSU is too good to not equalize.

Lots of injuries/players resting for SLU but they take care of business against their route 11 rivals.  Very impressed with Henry Hart who got his first collegiate start filling in for some injured players.  Mogul continues to prove to be SLU's best player.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 19, 2023, 09:35:39 PM
Union has nothing to be ashamed of after their performance against Williams.  2 goals off of some really bad luck.

Good to see Clarkson keep up their winning ways.

As far as I can tell Canton scored their first ever goal against SLU tonight, good shot that just hung in the air and snuck under the crossbar.  Aside from that, pretty cynical performance from the Roos.  They played a 4-6 formation it looked and the coach seemed to mainly care about keeping the scoreline respectable than actually trying to get a result.  Nice to see some young Saints step up tonight. Henry Hart had a great rip to open things early in the game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 19, 2023, 10:46:35 PM
Stlawus, I agree that it looked like Canton just parked the bus in order not to lose again 9-0 like last year.  But I have to give the Canton coach and his players more credit.  They knew they were outmatched so they tried to prevent SLU from scoring and look for counters.  They almost tied it at 2-2 in the second half.  They double and triple teamed Mogul but had no answer for him at the spot.  SLU moved the ball around well and will hopefully be prepared for a big opening game against RPI at home on Saturday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 19, 2023, 10:59:54 PM
The Roos certainly had a chance or two to get back in it in the 2nd half, I just found it odd they rarely tried to get out of their final third even when they got the ball.  This has sometimes been a tricky fixture for SLU, as often times all bets are off in local rivalry games.    An interesting contrast between the teams is that it appeared Canton had absolutely 0 injured players, whereas SLU has a hefty amount.  From the sounds of it at least some of them will be back for RPI this weekend. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 20, 2023, 10:29:12 AM
I believe SLU has four players out with concussions.  Hopefully we will see some of them back this weekend if they are ready. I was disappointed that SLU wasn't able to get a lead early so coach would be confident enough to see how some of his other players fare, especially in the midfield.  They actually subbed the least amount all year against their weakest opponent.  Edmonds brought a lot of energy to the game when he came in. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 20, 2023, 09:08:56 PM
Owen Fauth is proving to be Vassar's MVP for the second year in a row.  Against Montclair his assist generates Vassar's only goal.  Today his assist and goal bring Vassar back from a 1-0 deficit to defeat Drew in New Jersey.  Let the League games begin. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 20, 2023, 09:15:10 PM
You can talk about Bard's strength of competition until the cows come home but you can't change the fact they're 5-0.  York beat them 2-0 last year, and they returned the favor tonight to say the least.  41 shots to York's 0. 

Good win for Vassar on the road, easily their best so far.  They're not dominating anyone of note yet and definitely are a different team without Wnorowski but that head to head result against Drew could prove useful come ranking season.   If New Paltz and West Conn have good seasons Vassar will have a good SOS since they have also played Montclair and have Middlebury on the schedule.   

Speaking of SOS, right now SLU is on pace to have an equal or greater SOS than Vassar given that Oneonta, Cortland, Plattsburgh, Geneseo and Hartwick continue to rack up wins.  We'll see how things stand in a month, but a much different SOS story for SLU this year thus far.

Ithaca once again struggles to find the net getting boat raced at Cortland.  I do think Ithaca is better than last year but they look like they'll struggle again trying to find goals against good teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 20, 2023, 10:51:48 PM
We will see how Bard does in Liberty League play.  41-0 in shots?  11-0?  Game stops after 77 mins?  Is 11-0 a mercy rule of was it because York didn't have enough players to continue?  I think they started with only 10 players.
Re SLU, can strength of schedule help if you are winless against those strong teams?  Seems like SLU will have to win the tournament to go to the NCAAs. I like their chances. 
Big test vs RPI.  Young players have been getting sone good experience because of injuries. This will help the team as the season moves on and players return from injuries (mainly concussions).   Hopefully the team's 4 goal performance, which was one more than the first 5 games combined, will give them the confidence to continue to score. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 20, 2023, 11:05:56 PM
Last year proved SOS was way more important than wins. Vassar did not have any wins of note but remained ahead of SLU in the regional rankings until the last week solely due to SOS. SLU had a win @Cortland but Vassar still remained ahead until SLU won the AQ. The only win Vassar had against a regionally ranked opponent last year was against New Paltz who were the last regionally ranked region 3 team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: paclassic89 on September 20, 2023, 11:28:59 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on September 20, 2023, 10:51:48 PM
We will see how Bard does in Liberty League play.  41-0 in shots?  11-0?  Game stops after 77 mins?  Is 11-0 a mercy rule of was it because York didn't have enough players to continue?  I think they started with only 10 players.

According to the box score they only played with 10 for the entire 77 mins.  Really weird since they have 17 on the roster according to the website.  I don't remember ever seeing something like this before in a D3 game
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hopkins92 on September 21, 2023, 09:43:53 AM
COVID??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 21, 2023, 10:14:19 AM
York is a CUNYAC school located in Brooklyn, and many of those players have jobs. So if you look at their box scores, they always have enough players and a few subs at home, and barely have enough guys and no subs when they go on the road.

None of it really matters. If Bard is a paper tiger, it'll be obvious at Ithaca on Saturday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on September 21, 2023, 10:38:21 AM
York is in Jamaica Queens not Brooklyn but otherwise spot on. Medgar Evers (which is in Brooklyn) has had similar issues and perpetually struggles particularly in women's soccer and volleyball just to field teams. I've seen MEC only bring 7 for WSOC, for example. York women's squads also tend to have major numbers problems.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 22, 2023, 12:25:45 PM
For the first time like ever for me I look at a slate of Liberty League fixtures and would not be surprised by any team obtaining a result.  There are no gimme games on Saturday.  If Bard is not a paper tiger then this league's parity is pretty remarkable.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 22, 2023, 12:35:52 PM
I agree.   But I'm expecting RIT and Vassar to fight it out with SLU and RPI challenging. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 23, 2023, 08:38:07 AM
RPI v SLU  is maybe the best Alphabet derby in the league with all due respect to RIT.  This game will tell these two experienced and good coaches exactly where their team is and what type of season to expect.
St. Lawrence got off to a bit of a slow start but seem to be righting the ship just before the LL season begins.
RPI got an early wake up call first game of the season playing one of the best teams in the country and have steadily improved as well.

I give a slight advantage to the home team on their home field.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Racoon72 on September 23, 2023, 02:07:54 PM
Quote from: saint_forever on August 18, 2023, 11:55:56 AM
Felt like making a prediction chart for the league this year. Bias towards the Saints for sure.

1. Vassar
2. SLU
3. RPI
4. Hobart
5. Skidmore
6. Ithaca
7. Union
8. Bard
9. RIT
10. Clarkson

Clarkson bottom, SLU bias aside I think the turnover of coach will hurt them. Vassar stays strong, but SLU right behind, could be another case of ties making the difference.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On August 23rd I wrote, "Those who underestimate Clarkson will be very, very sorry!  GO TECH!"

Well, the halftime score of the Clarkson - RIT game is Clarkson 2 - RIT 0.  Former coach Carter Lincoln prepared the CU boys for a great season during their Spring European trip and the new coach is managing a great group of talented players.

Looking forward to seeing some great soccer this season!  GO TECH!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kuiper on September 23, 2023, 03:37:22 PM
Quote from: Racoon72 on September 23, 2023, 02:07:54 PM
Quote from: saint_forever on August 18, 2023, 11:55:56 AM
Felt like making a prediction chart for the league this year. Bias towards the Saints for sure.

1. Vassar
2. SLU
3. RPI
4. Hobart
5. Skidmore
6. Ithaca
7. Union
8. Bard
9. RIT
10. Clarkson

Clarkson bottom, SLU bias aside I think the turnover of coach will hurt them. Vassar stays strong, but SLU right behind, could be another case of ties making the difference.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On August 23rd I wrote, "Those who underestimate Clarkson will be very, very sorry!  GO TECH!"

Well, the halftime score of the Clarkson - RIT game is Clarkson 2 - RIT 0.  Former coach Carter Lincoln prepared the CU boys for a great season during their Spring European trip and the new coach is managing a great group of talented players.

Looking forward to seeing some great soccer this season!  GO TECH!

Clarkson 2 - RIT 1

Nice win, but to add to the above I wanted to emphasize that Coach Lima was a great hire for Clarkson and not just as a caretaker for the former coach's players.  Before he was at Northeastern, he spent a year or so at Rochester and recruited many strong players there.  He's really good at identifying the best traits of a player and finding the ways to utilize them.  I'm sure he'll do well at Clarkson even if institutional support isn't as strong as at other schools in the league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 23, 2023, 04:29:56 PM
Great win for Clarkson, no two ways about it.  Road victory over a team expected to compete for the LL title.  Clarkson doubled RIT up on shots and shots on goal.  I've noticed that 2021 LL ROY Jaden Longdon is no longer on the RIT roster, he transferred closer to home to play for PSU Harrisburg.   Can't wait to watch Clarkson and SLU play under the lights in Potsdam in 10 days.   

Union has been playing very well despite their results, and that showed today with a shut out of Vassar.  Looks like they made the right coaching hire to replace Guinn.   Who could have guessed that playing tough non conference games prepared you for the top teams in the league like Vassar.   Very happy for the Garnet today.    Vassar's next opponents better be ready because the Brewers are going to come back with a vengeance I think. 

Ithaca finds their goal scoring by giving Bard their first loss.  I don't think Bard is as bad as the scoreline indicates, but that's the first real competition for them.  Ithaca quietly putting together a solid start to the season.   They are very tough to play on their home field. 

Hobart stole one at Skidmore, excellent win for the Statesmen.  Skidmore is reeling, they are clearly having a hard time replacing Kilmnick who helped get them to the LL championship game.

SLU put together a solid game today getting their first home win against RPI since 2017.  Took advantage of a bad mental error by RPI who stopped the clock with 3 seconds left on a free kick giving McDougald the chance to blast a beautiful free kick into the net.  McDougald has gotten closer and closer on free kicks this season and finally got one.    Very impressed with first year Henry Brown today, he is getting so close to bagging one.  Had great hold up play, vision and passing.  Good recruiting on Tosh's part.  Woelfinger also played like the reigning DPOY, was a vacuum on crosses and made the big saves.

Gaudiano was neutralized for the most part, Will Baker had him pretty well bottled up.  Clinton was not happy at all during that game, very frustrated with his midfield.  RPI does look like they have technical quality of years past but seem to lack speed which prevented a lot of counters and vertical play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 23, 2023, 05:26:09 PM
I thought SLU played solid as well. The jury is still out for me on Brown. I don't think he is a back to the goal type player but more of heads on type player. Maybe due to injuries that is where Tosh has to player him. Love to see more of Campbell. He gets the ball and takes guys on, putting defenders on their heels.Diaz, Ogulach, and Baker were solid back there and Woeflinger was commanding his box. Made a great save at the end of the game to preserve the win. Argueleta was also solid today. Nothing great but was at the right place at the right time. Hart impressed me today. This was top notch competition he was facing. Hustle and very composed on the ball. Touch seemed to be better. Looks like he is gaining the confidence.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 23, 2023, 05:34:49 PM
I always find it interesting the contrast of viewpoints that come from people who see the game in person and those who stream.  Neither is wrong, but you can pick up things in each scenario you might not pick up the other way.  Campbell is a good player, but he's still getting up to speed as he lost the ball quite a bit today.  In person Brown just seemed solid, made great weighted passes and had a good touch but YMMV.  Fully agreed on Hart though, he was a last minute addition to the roster last year as a first year, it's clear that he's developed.

Best player for RPI in my view was their center back Kedy Nana.  I was shocked to find out he's a first year.  He has great size and never mistimed a tackle.  He'll be a rock solid anchor back there for the next 4 years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 23, 2023, 06:01:04 PM
Kudos for Union as they get first LL payoff from their schedule upgrade.  It was also their first win over Vassar since 2015.  As for Vassar one has to wonder whether the decision to finish the Brandeis game on Thursday was a pyrrhic victory.  On Wednesday the team did a four hour roundtrip to Drew and pulled out a victory in the last ten.  On Thursday the team does a 7 hour round trip to Brandeis to play a second half where there are up 2-0.  Obviously the staff thought they would close out 1-4-2 Brandeis but with all that travel and game time it just may be that the Vassar players were all running on tired legs for their 4th road contest in a row at Union.  Moreover, given the emphasis on SOS in making pool C decisions it is possible that the W against Brandeis will actually hurt them as it looks like Brandeis will be trying to avoid the bottom of the UAA table.  Anyway, as I have said, this year is up for grabs--the teams with the two best preseason results against UR and MSU go down in their LL openers.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 23, 2023, 06:49:42 PM
Quote from: stlawus on September 23, 2023, 05:34:49 PM
I always find it interesting the contrast of viewpoints that come from people who see the game in person and those who stream.  Neither is wrong, but you can pick up things in each scenario you might not pick up the other way.  Campbell is a good player, but he's still getting up to speed as he lost the ball quite a bit today.  In person Brown just seemed solid, made great weighted passes and had a good touch but YMMV.  Fully agreed on Hart though, he was a last minute addition to the roster last year as a first year, it's clear that he's developed.

Best player for RPI in my view was their center back Kedy Nana.  I was shocked to find out he's a first year.  He has great size and never mistimed a tackle.  He'll be a rock solid anchor back there for the next 4 years.

Your right. It is easier in person than on stream. You are at the mercy of the video person so your assessment of Brown might be better than mine. You're right the RPI center back was impressive and I too looked him up. He is only a freshman but very solid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 26, 2023, 10:58:07 PM
It's nice to see SLU making the rankings this week after winning three in a row.  Their defense is doing very well.  In the 5 games the Woelfinger has started, they have not let in a goal from the run of play with 11 men on the field.  They also have shutouts in 3 of those 5 games.  They haven't been performing as well on offense.  Hopefully Mogul will find some room on the wing against Ithaca and some of the other forwards will finish.  Peacock is needed in midfield.  Hopefully he will be healthy enough to return.  Things are moving in the right direction but expect another 1-0 game this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 27, 2023, 03:08:25 PM
A big next 3 days for the RPI team.
Playing top 12 side Oneonta today and what seems like a resurgent Union team on Saturday. This all following a tough game against SLU last weekend. I think RPI will be there at the end playing in the tournament. Team looks solid in attack and defense and obviously going with a strong schedule playing some of the best teams in the country outside of conference.  Could be a surprise score against the Red Dragons but either way RPI should be good.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Coach Jeff on September 27, 2023, 03:09:59 PM
Thanks I will try and catch some of the game today...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 27, 2023, 06:00:26 PM
Bard gets their first league point since September 30th, 2017.  At Vassar, no less.  Even had a few chances to go ahead in the last 10 minutes. 

RPI never really threatened against Oneonta.  Same problem that affected them against SLU, they have no speed on the flanks. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 27, 2023, 10:14:03 PM
Clarkson sitting at 6-1.  Took advantage of some defensive mistakes while at the same time hitting very nice long balls into the box.   Time will still tell, as they started similarly last season against better competition, but to do it again with a new coaching staff is quite remarkable.  It's always good to get the midweek league result with the quick turnaround for the weekend matchup. 

Hobart also with a very solid result on the road against Ithaca.  I really don't know what to make of Ithaca or Hobart for that matter, but Hobart already has 2 league wins against 2 teams they tied last year.

SLU has the full week of rest but now have to play against an Ithaca squad looking to rebound.   If the team was playing poorly I would have been concerned by now, but having watched them dominate Cortland until the red card and seeing Cortland (and Oneonta) dismantle everyone, I never really felt particularly worried about the early results.    A slip up this weekend changes that calculus though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 28, 2023, 07:20:27 AM
Quote from: stlawus on September 27, 2023, 10:14:03 PM
Clarkson sitting at 6-1.  Took advantage of some defensive mistakes while at the same time hitting very nice long balls into the box.   Time will still tell, as they started similarly last season against better competition, but to do it again with a new coaching staff is quite remarkable.  It's always good to get the midweek league result with the quick turnaround for the weekend matchup. 

Hobart also with a very solid result on the road against Ithaca.  I really don't know what to make of Ithaca or Hobart for that matter, but Hobart already has 2 league wins against 2 teams they tied last year.

SLU has the full week of rest but now have to play against an Ithaca squad looking to rebound.   If the team was playing poorly I would have been concerned by now, but having watched them dominate Cortland until the red card and seeing Cortland (and Oneonta) dismantle everyone, I never really felt particularly worried about the early results.    A slip up this weekend changes that calculus though.
Said like a ma who knows his team and has followed them for decades :)
I actually agree, the season starting off with 2 losses is not a big deal. Ending a season with 2 losses is fatal. The boys have been playing well this season even in games they have not won, importantly in those games they have gotten used to playing as a new unit and new generals have taken control out there on the battle field. Saint Maxima seems very comfortable in his role and Mac14 is running the middle and his confidence is very high at the moment which the entire team is feeding off.
Young Jeremy in the back is playing more like a senior than a sophomore. He does not make mistakes often, and is blessed with that pure speed to make up for it.
All that being said, the team will go as far as#1 Goldfinger takes them this season.
The Ithaca game is always a big one with all the shared historical connections, but the mid week Clarkson game will be BIG for both teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 28, 2023, 10:51:29 AM
ithaca will not score a goal against the Saints. only question is will the Saints scrape one up to get the win. Clarkson and Vassar will show SLU's true mettle. Vassar is in some uncharted territory here. They finish the week with Skidmore, one of the league's weakest, but then face a potential 3 loss week with Middlebury, SLU and Clarkson. Starting 0-1-1 against two of the bottom four teams in the league does not bode well despite their regional ranking.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 30, 2023, 07:16:09 AM
Saint of Old.  I certainly agree with your assessment.  Jeremy continues to improve with each game.  On offense as well with his beautiful floating long balls out to the wingers.  The goal off the set piece for Mac14 continued to improve his confidence.  It would be nice to see him and Saint Maximus hook up more, with Mac14 taking more risks going forward.  And like you said, Woelfinger continues to get better and stronger since his one difficult game vs Cortland. Defense is solid.  They have the potential to get the offense going.  Brown is relentless and Pijpers will hopefully get his powerful shot on target.  Perhaps Ryan will get things going.  But someone will emerge.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 30, 2023, 10:27:36 AM
Does anyone have the skinny on Skidmore's Ibrahim?  15 goals last year snd hasn't played since the third game. It would be a shame if he were lost for the season and his absence explains why Skidmore is in the cellar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 30, 2023, 01:59:08 PM
Bard up on RIT at half. Anybody's league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 30, 2023, 04:00:43 PM
Right now it looks like Hobart's league to lose.  Already 3-0 in the league.  SLU played absolutely rancid in the 1st half at Ithaca, letting Ithaca dictate everything and giving them everything they want in midfield.  Very similar to the last time they played at Ithaca, just 0 game plan and getting beat to every 50/50 ball.

Vassar barely hung on to Skidmore and Union is on the upswing with another good win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 30, 2023, 04:49:37 PM
After today SLU has the honors of having the worst single game performance by a Liberty League team in league play so far.  All credit to Ithaca who had a game plan of pressing SLU which worked for 90 minutes.  SLU made absolutely 0 adjustments and let Ithaca push and body them around all game and win every tossup.  An incredible stat from the game was that SLU had literally 0 shot attempts in the 2nd half.   SLU also better start thinking about changing their throw in philosophy because I think they turned it over after 95% of the game's throw ins.  That was absolutely woeful. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on September 30, 2023, 04:57:29 PM
sWell there is saying that "the will to win will beat the skill to win."  That is what happened in the Ithaca/SLU game.  Ithaca was beating them to the ball all the time and it looked SLU lacked heart and was going thru the motions.  That will not get it done especially in this league.  If they continue to play like this, they will be home for the playoffs.  Still don't know why Campbell is not playing. He is the reigning rookie of the year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 30, 2023, 05:11:54 PM
I agree with your assessment stlawus.  It was horrendous.  SLU tries to move the ball around and work it upfield.  Unfortunately without Peacock in the midfield, the only midfielder who has control of the ball is Macdougald. And half the time he plays the ball back.  They can't seem to keep the ball more than a few passes.  No creativity on throw ins.  Direct kicks in opponents side of the field go back to their own goalie.  Besides a play early in the game we didn't see much from Mogul.  They need to find a way to get him the ball or he needs to come get it.  They left the goal scorer all alone on that header.  They need to do something about that midfield or start playing over them.  Dismal performance. I thought they may come out if it with a tie when Pijpers made an excellent run from midfield but he didn't pull the trigger.  All in all the worst performance of the year by far.  Expect their opponents to follow Ithaca's game plan. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on September 30, 2023, 05:30:47 PM
Quote from: kevdog on September 30, 2023, 04:57:29 PM
sWell there is saying that "the will to win will beat the skill to win."  That is what happened in the Ithaca/SLU game.  Ithaca was beating them to the ball all the time and it looked SLU lacked heart and was going thru the motions.  That will not get it done especially in this league.  If they continue to play like this, they will be home for the playoffs.  Still don't know why Campbell is not playing. He is the reigning rookie of the year.
Campbell came to school a little out of shape.   Then got a mild concussion.  Now an injury to his leg.   I agree.   They could use a healthy Campbell. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 30, 2023, 06:03:00 PM
How about Union winning at RPI?! And Bard was up twice in that game at RIT but yielded a horrible equalizer late
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 30, 2023, 07:58:05 PM
Union were the better team too, thoroughly outplayed RPI on their home turf.  Major props to Bard, haven't had more than 2 points in a season since 2016, and got them off 2 very good teams.   Could see some tiebreakers at play come end of the regular season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2023, 05:57:15 PM
Vassar might have got some luck on their 2nd goal as it looked it a potential hand ball, but it counts nonetheless.  2 goals off 2 corner kicks to rescue a draw against Middlebury.  Set pieces have carried the Brewers the past 2 years, they continue to remain a force on dead balls. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 03, 2023, 06:43:41 PM
Have to hand it to Vassar--went back to last year's playbook to get the draw.  They have been down to Drew, Skidmore, and Middlebury and found a way to salvage a 2-0-1 record keeping their slim pool C chances alive.  Kudos to them.  Also, it is nice to know that the Liberty League plays at a very high level across the board.  When Vassar can tie one of the top NESCAC squads, and Bard can tie Vassar, then by the transitive property of soccer results Bard is as good as any NESCAC team. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 03, 2023, 10:06:44 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on September 30, 2023, 05:11:54 PM
I agree with your assessment stlawus.  It was horrendous.  SLU tries to move the ball around and work it upfield.  Unfortunately without Peacock in the midfield, the only midfielder who has control of the ball is Macdougald. And half the time he plays the ball back.  They can't seem to keep the ball more than a few passes.  No creativity on throw ins.  Direct kicks in opponents side of the field go back to their own goalie.  Besides a play early in the game we didn't see much from Mogul.  They need to find a way to get him the ball or he needs to come get it.  They left the goal scorer all alone on that header.  They need to do something about that midfield or start playing over them.  Dismal performance. I thought they may come out if it with a tie when Pijpers made an excellent run from midfield but he didn't pull the trigger.  All in all the worst performance of the year by far.  Expect their opponents to follow Ithaca's game plan.
Saints got outworked.
Tough sentence to type or admit but that is what happened in Ithaca, they just wanted it more.
No problem losing a game, it happens but as a team we should always give that effort. These things can happen and I'm sure the boys will be back, but it is time to start picking it up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on October 04, 2023, 08:53:59 PM
Other than the Clarkson commentator having the mic literally in his mouth for half the game, great win for SLU. Clarkson back to reality after starting non-conference hot (as always). Big win for SLU!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 04, 2023, 09:56:58 PM
Great game, great atmosphere.  Raucous Clarkson student section and they also had the pep band.   That was definitely the most technical I've ever seen Clarkson play against SLU, which is a testament to the improvements of the program. 

They say you play how you practice, which is how SLU got their goal.  In warmups Eric Edmonds was drilling one touch shots into the upper and lower corners, don't know if I saw him miss.   On the goal he got practically the same exact type of touch he was getting in warmups and sure enough, put his head over the ball and drilled it.  Goal was a product of Henry Brown's run, so a very good freshman to freshman link up to get the game winner.

As I said Saturday, right now the league is Hobart's to lose as they get yet another win to vault up to 4-0.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 05, 2023, 08:58:54 AM
I have to agree Stlawus.  Erik Edmonds brings a ton of energy off the bench.  He has a powerful shot and stays over the ball where many of the players on both sides of the field were skying the ball over the crossbar.  The goal came on hustle from the two freshmen as Brown ran through the ball and the defender for the steal while Edmonds anticipating this sprinted downfield and got himself in position for the loose ball in front.  Goals don't come easy and sometimes its takes making those runs over and over.  Brown and Edmonds had the energy and will.  It also came when they played more direct.  I love SLU's possession game but hope they can mix it up with some long balls to the offense for these type of opportunities as well as opening up the defense.  And with the speed of Mogul, Edmonds, and Brown, they will have opportunities.  Seven shots in their last two games will not bring many victories, even though their defense has been terrific.  Welcome back Peacock. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 06, 2023, 07:12:44 AM
I missed the SLU v. CU game, but from the stats and people I have spoken to, sounds like Clarkson played great.  Moving the ball really well and creating some chances from going side to side and then back middle.

I think that the young season tells us that this LL is very strong from top to bottom. I cannot recall when there has ever been much parity in the LL and I have been following the LL before it was called the LL.

Where there is extreme parity there will always be a lack of clarity.

At this point only the most prescient forecaster will still have their pre-season predictions intact. I feel bad for the dude who had Clarkson last :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 07, 2023, 05:08:52 PM
Vassar rescues a point against Hobart.  Vassar scored yet another corner kick goal to tie things up at 1. 

Union is taking care of business, that program has made some huge strides which is beneficial for the league.

Not really sure what RPI is doing, disappointing by their standards.

Clarkson also gets burned again by another improved squad in Ithaca, big matchup between them and Union next week. 

SLU will take the 3 points against RIT.  Not much going on in the first half, largely due to the weather.  Brutal wind and rain, but that let up at halftime and the Saints took over.  Not sure why Peacock started at LB but once he moved back to the midfield in the 2nd half things opened up for SLU offensively. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on October 07, 2023, 05:27:29 PM
Tale as old as time: Clarkson and RIT burning out in the league after starting hot in non-conference. RIT only had a chance whenever SLU wanted to give them one, which again, is typically how SLU concedes. If SLU can grab 4 points from next weekend, playoffs are essentially locked up. Hobart vs. SLU to end the year seems to be lining up to be the title decider, as it usually is. Excited for the SLU boys, but a lot of season left. Side note, I said it before the season, but I want to double down: Bard WILL win one of their last 4, and looking at who those opponents are, it will have massive implications to league positioning and postseason birth.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 08, 2023, 10:15:46 AM
Definitely a tale of two halves for the Saints.  The first half SLU was even more passive when it comes to being direct than normal.  They would get a direct kick in the final third and rather than sending it into the box or doing something creative with a winger, they would pass back to a midfielder who in turn would pass back to Woelfinger who may then boot it up field where it lands approximately where the direct kick was originally taken.  I just don't understand.  One of the midfielders on SLU played the ball back more in the first half than he did forward.  These were usually the only way RIT had their chances.  I'm a fan of "the beautiful game" but you don't get points for passing the ball around.  You score goals by taking risks going forward.
I'm not sure what happened at halftime, but things certainly changed.  I think it was more than the weather.  Yes Peacock was needed in the middle, freshman Edmonds was again on the wing bringing his energy, McDougald started attacking more, and Jeremy was playing more like a wing back, making runs and trying to hook up with Mogul.  It was great to see them work together.  Then finally Pijpers was back to where we like to see him, on the end of a beautiful run and pass by Mogul for a deadly strike.
They'll have a tough match against Vassar Friday, and will hopefully be able to recover for Bard as the bench is used less and less.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 08, 2023, 02:48:22 PM
Possession with a purpose. It is ok to possess the ball but you don't get the win by time of possession. There is a saying be safe in your third but take chances in their third. I wish SLU would shoot more from outside the box. Too many times that want that nice pass. You don't have have the nice goal. Sometimes a deflection is nice one too. It doesn't matter how it goes in the net. Plus it will open things up because now the defense will not sit back and has to challenge the shooter. As a coach once said nothing pays off like good shooting though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 08, 2023, 06:20:51 PM
This year I've been trying to track injuries for all teams in the league to see who's been impacted the most. 

I am not sure if he's injured so this would only be speculation, but if he is injured it seems Kamal Ibrahim is the highest impact individual injury.  15 goals last year and so far only played 3 games for Skidmore, and still had 2 goals in those games. 

Vassar seems to have had quite a bit of injury good fortune, as all of their top players have played or started just about every single game.  Same goes for Hobart who have not seemed to have much if any major impact from injuries.   

Looks like Ithaca have had a few minor injuries, but no one has missed extended time, which would partially explain their improvement this season. 

RPI looks to have had a few injuries, but otherwise all their top players seem to have been available.  Very odd season for them.

By the numbers Clarkson looks to be the overall healthiest team in the league so far, with 7 players starting all 10 games.  I think I saw maybe one player not suited up against SLU earlier this week.

Union is similar to Clarkson and all high impact players have played every game give or take 1 or 2. 

SLU unsurprisingly have had a good amount of high impact injuries.   Pijper missing a few games and now Campbell out for what will probably be at least a few weeks if not more.  CB Jackson Malary has also been out most of the season and Sam Peacock missed a string of games and had to be removed early in one of two others.   A pretty highly touted freshman winger also looks like will miss the entire season without having played a single minute. 

So all in all it looks like Vassar, Ithaca, Union and Clarkson have been the most healthy.  SLU and Skidmore likely the least from a pound for pound standpoint.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 08, 2023, 07:05:58 PM
STLAWUS, Why do you think SLU has so many high impact injuries the last few years?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 08, 2023, 07:11:38 PM
Who is the highly touted freshman winger that is out for SLU?  Having Campbell out does hurt and so does Malary not being in there. Hopefully they can get healthy and come back.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 08, 2023, 08:11:15 PM
Saint_Dad, honestly, I think it's more bad luck than anything.   Most of these guys have had contact injuries or tweaks due to artificial turf (Peacock at Oneonta).   In the Durocher days it was always soft tissue or ACL injuries (oh what the 2011 season could have been), now it seems to be simply bad luck as a result of contact.  Last year most of the injuries were ankle injuries due to hard tackles as well. 

kevdog, it is my understanding that Petrone is an absolute baller who had D1 looks/offers.  Impossible to say how much he would have played but at the very least would have added depth.  I think he's out for the whole year.

Luckily for SLU Ogango and Diaz have made a nice CB pairing to alleviate the Malary injury.  Would have been nice to have Malary this upcoming weekend for set pieces as Vassar is absolutely murderous on corner kicks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 08, 2023, 09:46:05 PM
Stlawus, thanks for the info. I thought was Petrone but was not sure. Thanks for all the inside info. It is appreciated
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 08, 2023, 10:06:30 PM
I think the Oneonta Hartwick weekend is a tough one at the beginning of the season.  The long trip playing on both grass and turf Back to back has ended with injuries for top players the last two years. I think they'd be better off with a few home games from lesser teams instead.  More kids could get a look and they would score some goals which will help with confidence on and off the field.  With everyone getting to play, the team will also be more unified and will help team morale.  Less injuries, more wins, more confidence, team morale.  They sacrifice some SOS.  But if they're losing and getting hurt, SOS doesn't matter much. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 08, 2023, 10:13:10 PM
Well you'd think that but last year showed that having a good SOS was enough to alleviate losses and a lack of big wins. 

I do agree that they should change that weekend up every now and then, at the very least get a home game against Oneonta for once.  I know they go down there because it's an easy schedule plug since it's Oneonta's annual tournament, but seems a bit unfair to let Oneonta only play home games against you for the better part of a decade.   Last regular season home game against them was in 2011 (and unfortunately last game overall was against them at home that year).    In those days SLU always made the first weekend the hardest, frequently bringing up Rochester with another good team like Stevens or Oneonta, but they were at least at home.  You don't get SOS points for road wins (unlike d3 basketball which is absolute BS).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 09, 2023, 12:23:30 AM
SLU use to play in the Rochester tournament otherwise known as the Flower Tournament. Usually played against U of R and then another high rank team but Rochester stop playing SLU and from what I heard the reason why was they did not want to get beat by them but who knows.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 09, 2023, 12:52:52 AM
Rochester stopped playing SLU mostly because they didn't want to play SLU and Clarkson back to back. They wanted their UAA type schedule with Friday and Sunday.  The first weekend isn't even back to back any more, it's now mostly Thursday/Saturday so who knows anymore. It wasn't a very lopsided rivalry as UR did win some games but SLU definitely put some thumpings on them over the years.  Saint of Old was apart of one those beat downs. I'd also be willing to bet Apple is still upset over the 2005 sweet sixteen matchup when a "down" SLU team still beat them on their field when UR was 16-0 going into that game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 09, 2023, 09:40:38 AM
Quote from: stlawus on October 09, 2023, 12:52:52 AM
Rochester stopped playing SLU mostly because they didn't want to play SLU and Clarkson back to back. They wanted their UAA type schedule with Friday and Sunday.  The first weekend isn't even back to back any more, it's now mostly Thursday/Saturday so who knows anymore. It wasn't a very lopsided rivalry as UR did win some games but SLU definitely put some thumpings on them over the years.  Saint of Old was apart of one those beat downs. I'd also be willing to bet Apple is still upset over the 2005 sweet sixteen matchup when a "down" SLU team still beat them on their field when UR was 16-0 going into that game.
U of R were always a good team and quality program... Rochester/Hobart/Plattsburgh from the SUNYAC were always teams up for a challenge and would always try to play the game to win.
That 2005 season is one of my all time favorite Saint squads.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 09, 2023, 11:47:41 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 09, 2023, 09:40:38 AM
Quote from: stlawus on October 09, 2023, 12:52:52 AM
Rochester stopped playing SLU mostly because they didn't want to play SLU and Clarkson back to back. They wanted their UAA type schedule with Friday and Sunday.  The first weekend isn't even back to back any more, it's now mostly Thursday/Saturday so who knows anymore. It wasn't a very lopsided rivalry as UR did win some games but SLU definitely put some thumpings on them over the years.  Saint of Old was apart of one those beat downs. I'd also be willing to bet Apple is still upset over the 2005 sweet sixteen matchup when a "down" SLU team still beat them on their field when UR was 16-0 going into that game.
U of R were always a good team and quality program... Rochester/Hobart/Plattsburgh from the SUNYAC were always teams up for a challenge and would always try to play the game to win.
That 2005 season is one of my all time favorite Saint squads.
Those teams were always good and actually was recruited by them but decided to go to SLU and don't regret it.  I had some friends that play on the Plattsburgh team who encourage be to go there but academically I was looking for something else.  Coach Waterbury is great coach and guy.  the one thing that turned me off about was the trimester and Coach Durocher is great sales person, lol.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 09, 2023, 12:02:43 PM
Pound for pound I doubt there were few if any better recruiters than Durocher.  Every year he convinced guys to leave 300 days of sunshine in San Diego to come up to play in the North Country elements.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 09, 2023, 12:18:55 PM
His last recruitng class says it all. 2 High School All-Americans, a top 33 player from NJ, a 20 goal scorer from Kiski, and very good player from PA Ausitn Dilts who didn't pan out after his freshman year. Yes he could recruit.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 12, 2023, 09:28:23 PM
So I assume that the lack of chatter about tomorrow's SLU v. Vassar game is due to trepidation on the SLU fans' part about the outcome--and rightly so.  Vassar has tied two of the top 10 teams in the country showing it can play with anyone, SLU does not have that distinction.  Vassar has, in Owen Fauth, the best and most prolific offensive player in the league.  I thought he would be the offensive player of the week this week with two assists against number 3 Middlebury, and an assist against League leading Hobart.  3 integral points against a top team in the nation and the top team in League in Hobart.  Instead, the award was gifted to the Dutchman who disappeared in the first game against Clarkson and had a goal on two shots against league winless RIT.  A Union player was also dissed given that he had two game winning goals in two games.  However, it has not been unusual for SLU players to get more of their share of honors than perhaps deserved.  In the last 5 seasons ending in 2022 SLU's regular season record (and year end awards are based on regular season performance) was 26-11-8.  Vassar's was 27-10-8.  During that same time SLU had 32 players with all league honors and Vassar had 21.  Given those statistics Vassar's coaching staff should have been honored every year since they clearly have obtained the best regular season results from inferior players.  Unless SLU has spent all week defending corner kicks final score tomorrow, Vassar 1, SLU 0. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 12, 2023, 09:45:38 PM
I have to agree that I thought the offensive player of the week award was soft, but it was a huge goal and a great run and shot by the Dutchman.  The award to Woelfinger was well deserved.  Regarding this weekend, it has the potential to be a total loss for SLU, where with a short bench, they use their energy all up on Friday, and have a two loss weekend.  Hopefully Peacock will be able to play as he was a key part of the midfield last weekend.  Perhaps SLU will bring in Owen's brother to stop him?  I'm sure he has experience covering him.  Vassar seems like the more complete team and will be deeper.  SLU is happy to play them fresh on Friday.  SLU can surprise with some quick goals early.  Watch for Mogul and Pijpers to hook up once again.  I'm looking forward to watching the best and most prolific offensive player in the league tomorrow.  We will see what color jersey he is wearing at the end of the game! :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 13, 2023, 10:00:05 AM
Awards are always subjective man.
Also, regardless of the record football at its root is the eye test.
People are going to always judge players differently.
The record of a team "regular season" is not a test of the ballers on that team. When you play against the best then you will see real quality rise to the top.
As for today's game. The winner will get that automatic bye along with Hobart perhaps. Not making predictions, but like I said, when the best play the real talent will show itself.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 13, 2023, 05:57:34 PM
Another horror show road performance costs SLU valuable points.  Decent 1st half performance, and then in the 2nd half went right back into pass it backwards and give the ball away mode.  Counted 3 times early in the 2nd half where SLU had tons of space going into the final third and passed it backwards or sideways.      Were begging for it conceding corner after corner to Vassar's high pressure that paid dividends when SLU made the mistake Vassar was waiting them to make.   It really is incredible how every opponent scores because SLU self destructs in their own third.  This is a game you could have turned off the second Vassar scored because there was no chance SLU was going to get a chance after.   Vassar makes hardly any mistakes and never gives the ball away, a very stark contrast to how SLU performs against good road opponents.

Anyways, league is starting to tighten up with Union winning their 4th straight league game and RPI pulling one out of the hat to beat Hobart.  Union is for real, a very efficient goal scoring team that seems to have got the right coach.

Starting to think whoever has home field advantage will win the league tournament.  Hasn't been a guarantee in some years, but it seems like this might be one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 13, 2023, 06:21:05 PM
St. Law--Spot on analysis.  Especially in the second half SLU was no threat at all.  Who totally shanked the last free kick from about 24 yards out with 6 seconds left?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 13, 2023, 06:25:53 PM
McDougald, who had his worst game of the season.  Same exact spot he scored a free kick against RPI, but that shank was a predetermined outcome. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 13, 2023, 09:45:30 PM
Stlawus, that was a dead on assessment. Tosh needs to get on the recruiting trail and get some big strong players. Vassar players were just outmuscling the SLU players. You are right they go backwards a lot. I am all for playing possession but there were times that they could easily attack but just passed it back or to the side. Someone needs to tell them it doesn't matter how pretty it looks as long as you score more than the other team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 14, 2023, 12:57:09 AM
Sone pretty good assessments here. Vassar pressured and SLU didn't adjust. Vassar started covering behind the ball knowing that SLU would go backwards. Second half Vassar made adjustments and just said "go ahead, play the ball from the back, we will bring the entire team up."  SLU couldn't bring the ball up, would lose it and Vassar finally scored, while SLU's only offensive threat just waited upfield the second half. I felt bad for McDougald, slipping in the final play of the game, but the rest of the game he seemed to be more interested in playing the ball backward rather than taking a risk playing the ball forward to arguably the best player out there on the field, perhaps in the entire Liberty League.  Owen Fauth from Vassar looked good as well.  Definitely a leader on the field. I think Vassar can go places this year and SLU has to decide if they want to play to score goals and win a game, or just play to not lose the ball. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2023, 09:57:56 AM
SLU faithful have to get over the notion that SLU has the best field player in the LL. This was the second game this season where SLU did not have a shot on goal. Playing the ball back is not conducive for sogs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 14, 2023, 10:23:55 AM
I agree with you Deutschmark. SLU does not have the best player on the field or even in the league. I have said all along this season that SLU doesn't have that player that they are accustomed to that is just better than everyone else like they had in years past.  SLU better start figuring it out or they are going to have to win the tournament to get into the dance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Another Mom on October 14, 2023, 10:24:28 AM
Is it the Dad of "the best player in the LL" that's making these claims?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2023, 10:56:33 AM
Maybe it's the mom.:) Kev—SLU has no chance of making the Dance unless they win the LL tourney. They are unranked in region, and have no wins against currently regionally ranked opponents.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 14, 2023, 12:25:44 PM
Agreed.  SLU has zero chance to make the dance unless they win the LL tournament.  That's if they make it in the LL tournament.  And no shots on goal won't get them anywhere.  Woelfinger and the defense keep them in every game.  The midfield and defense also eventually will be the reason for the goal they give up.  I haven't seen SLU get more aggressive until they go down a goal.  In my opinion they need to start playing as if they're down a goal from the start. Perhaps skip the midfield more.  And re the winger, Vassar certainly keyed on him, fouling him 7 or 8 times with 3 yellows on those fouls. A good ref protected the players.  Owen Fauth was the best field player out there today.  Woelfinger continues to be the top goalie in the league.  I give Bard a shot today if SLU makes an early mistake.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 14, 2023, 04:27:45 PM
What a difference 24 hours makes. 

Hobart inched closer to a regular season title.  Good bounce back after a disappointing loss to RPI yesterday. 

And how about the Golden Knights.  6 point weekend in the tough downstate road trip.   Major props to Clarkson's coach for not sitting back against Vassar and taking it to them the the whole game.   Goal was a good strike but Vassar is probably missing Wnorowski as that was a near post shot he would have had a chance to stop.    After a good showing against SLU yesterday Vassar is now is danger of not getting a home playoff game and are on the danger line of making the playoffs. The good news for Vassar is that the trend line favors them against Ithaca, as Ithaca's last 8 games have been: LWLWLWLW.  My highly unscientific analysis would say Vassar has a good shot win next Saturday. 

Could have easily been a let down game for SLU but the youth showed their prowess today.  Freshmen Saints accounted for 3 goals and 2 assists.  Not a total loss for the Fauth family today, as Aidan Fauth got his first career goal.  I'm quite amazed Mogul has been as durable as he has this season, he is getting absolutely wrecked by hard fouls every single game. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on October 14, 2023, 08:07:17 PM
SLU looked good against Bard today. Don't let the record be a reflection of Bard. A side that showed they can create chances and if not for some unlucky knock downs and bonehead moves, they had moments they looked they could score. Eric Edmonds and Henry Brown working non-stop up top, great to see that sort of work rate. Jeremy Ogango stood out as the best player for SLU today. Mogul continues to beat his man 8/10 times. I can't quite understand the hype for Vassar. SLU played poorly and Vassar still hardly created anything. The LL is about getting hot at the right time, this 5-0 win today could be the start of the fire for SLU, excited for them going forward.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 14, 2023, 08:11:53 PM
Wednesday's game between Union and SLU has massive standings implications.  A winner from that game is in good shape to get a first round bye, a loser will be battling for the last 4 spots.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 14, 2023, 11:43:21 PM
Something about this Henry Brown lad really has me thinking he will do BIG things for the Scarlet and Brown.
He comes from a solid program. Has a good work rate and is young and hungry. He needs to keep that hunger and he will be an all-time Saint.
Boys had a good weekend.
I can understand the frustration with back passes, even if we have a quarter back playing goalie, but this is not your Daddy's Saints.
The Tosh Saints do not wear you out with flair and speed, not as quick  from defense to attack as the old school, but he builds his teams for the post season. Boys get stronger as the year goes. SLU beats teams that beat them early in the year because by November it is a different team. They play a possesion and are a team that is hard to beat when the temperature drops.

There is a reason why Tosh is maybe the only Coach to win a LL Championship by winning 3 tourney games as underdog.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 15, 2023, 01:02:28 AM
For those who were waiting to see Griffin MacGillivray for SLU, he finally had his debut.  He played 15 minutes in the midfield and seemed like he's been on the field all year.  Composed, making quick passes, and getting an assist to Aidan Fauth.  I'm not sure why we haven't seen him all year, but I expect we will see him in every game going forward.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him making the starting team before the year is out.  The added attention that players like Oganga, Edmonds, and Brown will receive should reduce the times that Mogul will get double and triple teamed.  I think he drew about 5 or 6 yellow cards and about 10 fouls this weekend.  Just being beat up.  Yesterday's ref did a better job trying to protect the players. If SLU can beat Union and Skidmore at home, they will be playing Hobart for the regular season title.  The Plattsburg game is meaningless.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 15, 2023, 01:15:16 AM
For me the jury is still out on Brown. I know he is young and will learn but I wish when he gets touch he doesn't always complain to the refs with his arms out. You are not going to win points with the ref when you do that. I love his work rate but think he might be playing out of position. Right now I don't think he is that hold/back to the goal forward. Love to see him more on the wing as I believe he has the speed to blow by people. I hope you are right and he becomes one of the all time great player for SLU.  I feel like this team doesn't have that go to player like years past but they have different players coming up big which is a good sign.  I think the one problem that you have when you have a tradition of winning like Durocher had and Tosh has is people expect you to win.  It's a good problem to have but we sometimes forget that it's tough to do year in and year out because you have a bullseye on your shirt. I hope these guys can make a run but as we all know a 3 peat is very difficult to do in any sport.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 18, 2023, 11:45:07 AM
I wanted to chime in on the match of the day (only match)  The SLUnion bowl.
Before we get there it looks like Vassar has to beat Ithaca on Friday to avoid a must win game against RPI who might also be playing for their lives in that match up.
This league is super tight with only RIT and Bard looking to be completely out of it.

Union is on fire this season and I am sure the Saint fans are happy to be on Sandy today.
Goldfinger is one of the best goalies I have seen from the program in a while.
Kid can really be seen as having an Era as the SLU #1. He has improved each year and that Penalty win in NCAA's has really put his confidence at a new level.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 18, 2023, 06:02:13 PM
An uncalled clear cut penalty leading to a corner and goal for Union results in a tie in the only game of the day. That's the way it goes in this sport sometimes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 18, 2023, 07:31:38 PM
One team will win the tournament and everyone else will take the rest of the Fall off.  First set of NCAA Regional Rankings came out today and no LL teams made the cut. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 20, 2023, 03:59:18 PM
What is so far the Liberty League goal of the season rescues Vassar's season.  What a hit by #8 Hall, took a cross at the top of the box with 2 touches and still hit it on the volley into the upper 90.  From being down 1-0 to up 2-1 in the span of 2 minutes.  Fauth assisted on both.   Sets up a major showdown Wednesday with RPI needing a win to leap Vassar for the last playoff spot.   Ithaca was the better team in the first half, but let Vassar dictate the rest of the game.  A win for them would have put them in the driver's spot for the top seed.  Still possible, however.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 20, 2023, 05:29:39 PM
He hit a bomb.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 20, 2023, 06:10:01 PM
As has been mentioned, a lot of parity this year. 8 teams still looking for 6 spots.  Hobart, Union, and SLU control their own destiny toward a top two finish for the bye and home field. The Hobart/SLU could be the match for the conference title to end the season. Pretty much a big game for 8 teams tomorrow. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 20, 2023, 07:54:05 PM
SLU will also be without McDougald tomorrow due to yellow card accumulation.  From what I've heard he's played through an ankle injury all season, so some rest might do him some good. Hobart would obviously rather win but they have tiebreakers against most teams besides SLU, so a win would guarantee a bye and at least one home game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 20, 2023, 08:41:24 PM
What an incredible goal by #8 on Vassar. Wish it hadn't come at the expense of the Bombers, but can't even be mad at it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 21, 2023, 09:00:30 AM
Quote from: stlawus on October 20, 2023, 07:54:05 PM
SLU will also be without McDougald tomorrow due to yellow card accumulation.  From what I've heard he's played through an ankle injury all season, so some rest might do him some good. Hobart would obviously rather win but they have tiebreakers against most teams besides SLU, so a win would guarantee a bye and at least one home game.
Without McDougald perhaps we will see McGivalry make another appearance.  SLU needs to find a midfield that can control the ball and move the ball forward to their potentially explosive offense.  They just need more chances up top. Oganga has been a big force coming from the back. 
Hobart may have some tie breakers, but if Union and SLU win out, they will not be getting a first round bye.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2023, 04:50:23 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 14, 2023, 11:43:21 PM
Something about this Henry Brown lad really has me thinking he will do BIG things for the Scarlet and Brown.
He comes from a solid program. Has a good work rate and is young and hungry. He needs to keep that hunger and he will be an all-time Saint.
Boys had a good weekend.
I can understand the frustration with back passes, even if we have a quarter back playing goalie, but this is not your Daddy's Saints.
The Tosh Saints do not wear you out with flair and speed, not as quick  from defense to attack as the old school, but he builds his teams for the post season. Boys get stronger as the year goes. SLU beats teams that beat them early in the year because by November it is a different team. They play a possesion and are a team that is hard to beat when the temperature drops.

There is a reason why Tosh is maybe the only Coach to win a LL Championship by winning 3 tourney games as underdog.
Just saying...I have studied these boys for about 30 years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 21, 2023, 05:21:08 PM
What a difference the 10 makes!
No McDougald, no Peacock, and the midfield never looked so aggressive.  A forward thnking midfield with Mogul moving to center attacking mid and boy did he attack and move the ball quickly to the wingers and almost an early through ball to the striker.  And talk about the striker, the scrappy Brown had a lot more chances as the mid-field kept pushing forward and making plays that put the ball in the box. And Brown took advantage.  Graber had his game of his career on senior day.  Pijpers got back on the scoreboard with his head receiving a long cross into the box.  This is how SLU can play and put up some goals.  It looks like Toshack has some decisions to make with McDougald coming back and hopefully Peacock as well.  It seems that Mogul will be spending time at the 10, perhaps alongside Peacock and McDougald.  Now that's a strong midfield.
It was the first time I can remember where the ball did not continue to go backward, instead putting pressure on the defense and at that point its just a numbers game.  More chances at goal equals more goals.
I'm not sure of tie breaking rules, but If SLU beats Hobart, there is potential for a 3 way tie with Union for first.  If Union doesn't win out, then Hobart and SLU play for first.  Great ending for the Liberty league.  And then on to the playoffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2023, 05:30:04 PM
Great point about the excitement of eventual winner and overall parity. As you mention, SLU/Hobart/Union have the best records but Vassar is quite a team and Hobart and RPI can beat anyone. Ditto for Ithaca who beat SLU and Clarkson.
Trouble here is, all this beating up on each other will mean that there is no Pool C for the league which means every team MUST win the league to advance.
This League  Tourney will be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 21, 2023, 06:13:51 PM
I'm fairly certain that Union cannot win the league if they win out, as Hobart has the tie breaker over them and you compare results from the top down which would give SLU the tie breaker over them if they were tied on points.  Hobart just needs a result against SLU and they win the regular season.

As everyone else said, the last week should provide some great entertainment.  Any team in the last 5 spots right now have the opportunity to finish in 2nd.   Vassar and RPI will be playing for survival this coming Wednesday, should prove to be a great game.

I've been saying throughout the season that Henry Brown has been acclimating and getting closer and closer to bagging some goals, and today proved just that.  He's very fun to watch in person, as he's always putting himself in position to receive long and through balls and has a very graceful first touch.  Great recruiting on Tosh's part. Graber lost his starting spot to freshman Eric Edmonds and instead of getting discouraged put his head down and got a goal and assist today. 

RIT was without their best player and still got a really good win against Union who disappointed after rescuing a point midweek at SLU.  RPI's two best players got goals against Clarkson.  Their freshman centerback scored the 2nd goal, and he was by far the most impressive player on the field when I saw them play SLU a month ago.  More excellent recruiting from Clinton.

Bard didn't get a result but they showed how far they have come under Kostecky.  Scored 2 goals on the road against the first place team. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 21, 2023, 07:26:27 PM
 Brown has been impressive lately and is growing on me. One thing for a goal scorer to be in the right place at the right time and Brown puts himself in position to do that. It's tough to see on video his play off the ball as you are relying on videographer. I liked Ogabo in the middle of the defense. He is all over the place and has the speed to cut off passes. SLU appeared to move the ball crisper today but it was little difficult since the feed was a little choppy on my end. Perhaps because of the weather.

The center back from RPI is very impressive. I too thought he was the best player on the field when SLU played them. Next week should be very interesting. The only thing is I think whoever wins the league tournament will be the only Liberty League rep in the NCAA tournament. I hope I am wrong but don't see the committee given another team a pool C bid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 21, 2023, 07:50:30 PM
Feed was choppy due to the setup they use.  Same thing happened last year, it's the Hudl software or something.  Main reason why I try to get to all the home games in person since streaming is never a guarantee. 

There will be no pool C from the Liberty League.  No teams were ranked last week.  If SLU beat one of Cortland or Oneonta they would have had a shot to be in the rankings as they have a good SOS.  But with the SUNYAC having a great year and Rochester always being in the rankings even if they lose every single game it's AQ or bust for the Liberty League. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 24, 2023, 06:37:11 PM
Admirable effort by RIT today.  They are eliminated and are playing for pride, and had Ithaca on the back foot the whole second half.  Numerous chances to take the lead and didn't give up. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 24, 2023, 09:01:03 PM
Does anyone know how the Liberty League does tie breakers because at the end of the season there could be a 3 way tie for first place with SLU, Hobart, and Union if SLU and Union win their final games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 24, 2023, 09:34:10 PM
Tie breakers are head to head followed by results from the top down. If all 3 of those teams are at 19 points then SLU wins the league since they have the head to head tie breaker over Hobart and top down result against Hobart compared to Union who lost to Hobart. (SLU and Union h2h is irrelevant since they tied).  Hobart has the head to head over Union so they would finish ahead.

Had to rewrite this about 5 times because there are so many scenarios that it's easy to get confused.  I believe SLU can finish no lower than 4th.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2023, 08:11:40 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 31, 2023, 08:31:21 PM
LL Prediction

1. Vassar
2.SLU
3. RIT
4. Hobart
5. RPI
6.Skidmore

Right now, as we stand, this is a .500 batting average.

One can look at this as an old fogie, picking tourney teams from a historical basis without taking into account the trajectory, recruiting or finer points of a team.

On the other hand, it could just be that this is a very competitive league where the team many people thought would win the league gets bumped out of a top 6 qualifying spot.

Or it might be both :)

Big game todayfor Vassar!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 25, 2023, 09:28:21 AM
I would have never thought in my wildest dreams that Union could finish 2nd and Vassar might not even make the league tournament but here we are.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 25, 2023, 10:30:19 AM
Quote from: kevdog on October 25, 2023, 09:28:21 AM
I would have never thought in my wildest dreams that Union could finish 2nd and Vassar might not even make the league tournament but here we are.

As some long-time posters may be aware, Union was a perennial top 3 LL squad from approx. 2005-2013, with a league title, an NCAA appearance, multiple LL finals appearances, many all conference players, and at least one AA.  In only two years, Coach Brown has done a commendable job recruiting, upgrading the SOS, and reestablishing a winning culture.  Union is a very attractive school with many fine athletic programs, including D-1 hockey (2014 NCAA Champions), so it is only appropriate that they re-join the top of the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 25, 2023, 11:01:29 AM
Union is much improved with some good first year players.  They should be at or near the top of the table for years to come.  Hobart has an outside chance for a pool c spot if they win Saturday and lose in the finals.  It's possible.  But I see SLU winning at Hobart this weekend with the awakening of their offense.  SLU's defense has been tough all year, with the only game giving up more than one goal being to top 20 team Cortland, with only 10 men on the field.  If SLU is able to pull off the victory Saturday, they will be tough to beat at home in the playoffs. If they do, I expect SLU to go to the NCAA's for a third year in a row.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2023, 11:36:17 AM
At the risk of sounding like Gary Nevelle, making the NCAAs should be an expectation of any big team.
Things can happen in any season, but a minimal goal should be dancing.
I dont think SLU has missed the dance 4 times in the last quarter century if my math is correct .

Either way, as has been said above, teams are improving, from Bard to Clarkson and Union and like Man United is finding out success is not a given when other teams have quality recruiting pipelines and resources that they did not have before.

Thant being said, Tosh builds his teams for November and SLU v. Hobart historically happens in late October.

Anything can happen on Saturday, but the 6th seed in the conference can win the entire thing so the next two weeks should be fun to watch.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter McGavin on October 25, 2023, 12:21:57 PM
2nd ranking prediction

Region 3
1. Cortland
2. Oneonta
3. Brockport
4. Rochester
5. Buff St
6. New Paltz
7. Hobart

Others: Plattsburgh, SLU
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 25, 2023, 12:44:54 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 25, 2023, 10:30:19 AM
Quote from: kevdog on October 25, 2023, 09:28:21 AM
I would have never thought in my wildest dreams that Union could finish 2nd and Vassar might not even make the league tournament but here we are.

As some long-time posters may be aware, Union was a perennial top 3 LL squad from approx. 2005-2013, with a league title, an NCAA appearance, multiple LL finals appearances, many all conference players, and at least one AA.  In only two years, Coach Brown has done a commendable job recruiting, upgrading the SOS, and reestablishing a winning culture.  Union is a very attractive school with many fine athletic programs, including D-1 hockey (2014 NCAA Champions), so it is only appropriate that they re-join the top of the LL.
They use to be very good in the 80's and early 90's. Union is top notch school and their coach has done very well in bringing them back to respectability.  It should be interesting the next few years to see if they continue this trajectory of being in the top 6 year in and year out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Crossit4fun on October 25, 2023, 12:49:03 PM
I'll guess...

Region 3
1. Cortland
2. Oneonta
3. Brockport
4. New Paltz
5. Rochester
6. Buff St
7. Hobart

Others: SLU, Geneseo
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 25, 2023, 12:49:52 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 25, 2023, 11:36:17 AM
At the risk of sounding like Gary Nevelle, making the NCAAs should be an expectation of any big team.
Things can happen in any season, but a minimal goal should be dancing.
I dont think SLU has missed the dance 4 times in the last quarter century if my math is correct .

Either way, as has been said above, teams are improving, from Bard to Clarkson and Union and like Man United is finding out success is not a given when other teams have quality recruiting pipelines and resources that they did not have before.

Thant being said, Tosh builds his teams for November and SLU v. Hobart historically happens in late October.

Anything can happen on Saturday, but the 6th seed in the conference can win the entire thing so the next two weeks should be fun to watch.
Your right that it should be the expectations and I think that we SLU fans expect it every year becasue we are so use to it. Durocher and Tosh have built a winning tradition.  The problem is that when you do this it is expected every year but that is good problem to have.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2023, 01:49:15 PM
Quote from: kevdog on October 25, 2023, 12:49:52 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 25, 2023, 11:36:17 AM
At the risk of sounding like Gary Nevelle, making the NCAAs should be an expectation of any big team.
Things can happen in any season, but a minimal goal should be dancing.
I dont think SLU has missed the dance 4 times in the last quarter century if my math is correct .

Either way, as has been said above, teams are improving, from Bard to Clarkson and Union and like Man United is finding out success is not a given when other teams have quality recruiting pipelines and resources that they did not have before.

Thant being said, Tosh builds his teams for November and SLU v. Hobart historically happens in late October.

Anything can happen on Saturday, but the 6th seed in the conference can win the entire thing so the next two weeks should be fun to watch.
Your right that it should be the expectations and I think that we SLU fans expect it every year becasue we are so use to it. Durocher and Tosh have built a winning tradition.  The problem is that when you do this it is expected every year but that is good problem to have.
Crazy indeed that the entire SLU Coaching history since 1962 can be summed up by what would have been the all-time greatest REGGAE/ROCK and ROLL concert of all time:
"2 Bobs and a Mike"

Consistency and tradition.

Coach (Bob) Goodwin had many good wins.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Christan Shirk on October 25, 2023, 03:19:17 PM
REGION III - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - October 25, 2023

Rank

School
. Div. III .
Record
. Div. III .
SOS

 . R-v-R .
. Overall .
Record
. Prev. .
Rank
1.
Cortland State
13-2-2
0.597
5-1-2
13-2-2
Y
2.
Oneonta State
12-2-2
0.586
1-2-2
12-2-2
Y
3.
Brockport State
9-2-5
0.579
2-1-3
9-2-5
Y
4.
New Paltz State
9-2-4
0.584
1-2-2
9-2-4
Y
5.
Rochester
7-2-5
0.581
1-1-2
7-2-5
Y
6.
Buffalo State
10-3-3
0.556
1-3-1
10-3-3
Y
7.
Plattsburgh State
7-3-5
0.559
0-2-3
7-3-5
Y
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2023, 07:54:01 PM
Stop if you've heard this before:  Vassar takes a 1-0 lead into halftime from a goal scored off a corner
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 25, 2023, 08:02:13 PM
Saint Mogul takes a terrible PK but makes up for it with a nice goal. Brown is playing very well. Growing on me. Defense was a little shaky in the beginning but improved. Diaz not as composed as he usually is nor as sharp with his passes. Maybe having an off game and hopefully that will change in the 2nd half. Counterattack is looking dangerous
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2023, 08:07:06 PM
Diaz got hurt against Skidmore.  Looked like he got spiked in his calf.  Probably lingering a bit.

Offense is definitely a lot better, Saint Dad was right on that. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 25, 2023, 08:20:02 PM
RPI ties it up with Vassar 1-1.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2023, 08:55:55 PM
If I was a Plattsburgh underclassman I'd be pretty upset with Plattsburgh's coach.  Completely meaningless game for both teams, Plattsburgh has no realistic expectation for Pool C yet in a totally meaningless game Taylor plays the Plattsburgh starters for the whole 90 in what seemed to be a face saving operation to make the record look better.    He even threw the GK up on a free kick at the end.  What for?  You are ranked 7th in the regional rankings and will be out next week.   That was cynical.   Maybe I'm just reading into it too much.   SLU subbed out the entire 10 outfield players for 10 underclassmen that included almost all sophomores and first years and played admirably in their first string of extended minutes. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2023, 09:05:14 PM
What is the deal with Vassar?  Did they just greatly overperform last season?  Was Wnorowski a much more important piece than we all thought?  They're lucky they get to play RIT the last game of the season because otherwise they would be cooked like a Christmas goose.

RPI could finish as high as 2nd now with a win against Ithaca and a SLU and Union draw or loss. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2023, 09:45:20 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 25, 2023, 09:05:14 PM
What is the deal with Vassar?  Did they just greatly overperform last season?  Was Wnorowski a much more important piece than we all thought?  They're lucky they get to play RIT the last game of the season because otherwise they would be cooked like a Christmas goose.

RPI could finish as high as 2nd now with a win against Ithaca and a SLU and Union draw or loss.
Don't sleep on RIT, I have been saying for more than a decade that they are the Jekyl and Hyde of the league.
They can beat ANYONE.
RiT is also playing for pride and tonprove that they are no paper tiger.
I would not want to play this team for survival  if I were Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2023, 10:15:13 PM
I didn't mean to imply that RIT is a guaranteed win for Vassar, just that they are the 2nd to last team in the league.  If given the choice would Vassar want to play Hobart, SLU, RPI, Union or Ithaca the last game of the season, or RIT?  I think the choice would be clear.   Of course RIT can beat them, they have proven to be tough to beat in the final stretch of the season but for Vassar that is someone they would rather play the last game of the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 26, 2023, 12:02:35 AM
Was great to see SLU continue with that awakened offense in the first half with the starters.  The main difference seems to come with Mogul and his quick transitions from midfield, scoring the first and setting up the second.  Brown has been using his strength, speed and hustle to create chances, drawing a penalty kick and getting both assists.  This is not a team that will be held to just one goal anymore.  I'm expecting a 3-1 victory up at Hobart.  It should be exciting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 26, 2023, 07:05:00 AM
Quote from: stlawus on October 25, 2023, 10:15:13 PM
I didn't mean to imply that RIT is a guaranteed win for Vassar, just that they are the 2nd to last team in the league.  If given the choice would Vassar want to play Hobart, SLU, RPI, Union or Ithaca the last game of the season, or RIT?  I think the choice would be clear.   Of course RIT can beat them, they have proven to be tough to beat in the final stretch of the season but for Vassar that is someone they would rather play the last game of the season.
Good analysis, but Vassar just lost on the road andnhavebtheir next game on the road. RIT ends their season well, by well, ending Vassar's season. It is an "if my season ends tonight so will yours" mentality.  One of the strangest years in the LL and the fun has not even started yet.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2023, 09:33:35 AM
I have to agree with Saint on this.  RIT, at home, is playing for pride, the chance to keep Vassar out of the LL tourney, and an opportunity for some late redemption in a season that started so well by getting a result against a team that tied two of the best teams in the nation.  Vassar needs a win or they are out with Clarkson having the head to head tie break.  However if they make the tourney this could be a SLU redux from 2021.  Like SLU in 2021 Vassar has, imho, the best field player in the league.  Fauth not only has the most points but he has put the team on his shoulders to come back in multiple games, Ithaca being the latest.  It is true that he gets a bunch of assists because he takes the corner kicks but there is a definite skill and art to that.  If Fauth and Vassar miss the LL tourney then the question is whether the league is willing to give its highest award to someone whose team's season ended in October?  As to coaching staff of the year, for me that is easy.  RPI has worked a miracle going on a late win streak to secure a playoff bid after an atrocious start with 16 newcomers.  Hats off to Coach Clinton and his Assistants.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 26, 2023, 11:47:50 AM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 26, 2023, 09:33:35 AM
I have to agree with Saint on this.  RIT, at home, is playing for pride, the chance to keep Vassar out of the LL tourney, and an opportunity for some late redemption in a season that started so well by getting a result against a team that tied two of the best teams in the nation.  Vassar needs a win or they are out with Clarkson having the head to head tie break.  However if they make the tourney this could be a SLU redux from 2021.  Like SLU in 2021 Vassar has, imho, the best field player in the league.  Fauth not only has the most points but he has put the team on his shoulders to come back in multiple games, Ithaca being the latest.  It is true that he gets a bunch of assists because he takes the corner kicks but there is a definite skill and art to that.  If Fauth and Vassar miss the LL tourney then the question is whether the league is willing to give its highest award to someone whose team's season ended in October?  As to coaching staff of the year, for me that is easy.  RPI has worked a miracle going on a late win streak to secure a playoff bid after an atrocious start with 16 newcomers.  Hats off to Coach Clinton and his Assistants.
i agree with you about Coach Clinton but I am also going to have to say that the Union coach and his assistants have done a very good job of turning their program around this year to make the LL tourney compare to previous years.  It is going to be wild weekend.  I was almost going to say that Union and Clarkson can do with what Austria and West Germany did in the 1986 WC and just pass the ball around since they are already in the tournament but forgot that Clarkson has to win to stay off Vassar. I  bet the coaching staff from Vassar and Clarkson will keep a close on on both games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2023, 01:36:49 PM
Kev:  You are right about Union's coaching staff.  It should be a co-award this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 26, 2023, 02:27:23 PM
If Hobart wins the league I'm quite sure their coaching staff will get the award since they would have gone from 6th to first. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2023, 06:11:10 PM
That would be the safe choice, not the enlightened one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 26, 2023, 09:41:11 PM
I hate it when they give the COY to the coach of staff from a team that was expected to be good. Hobart overachieved? RPI? If we're being honest, many were picking Union to finish just ahead of Bard. My vote goes to Union, and I think it's a no-brainer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 28, 2023, 10:37:00 AM
Anyone willing to take a crack at predicting the order of the final 6?  Since my preseason number 1 is on the verge of not making the playoffs I am sitting this one out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 28, 2023, 11:54:22 AM
Want to go with my heart but given SLU's road performances I'll go with my brain.

1.Hobart
2.Union
3.SLU
4.RPI
5.Vassar
6.Ithaca
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 28, 2023, 12:03:02 PM
Would make two good rematches in the first round. Vassar probably didn't appreciate the RPI fans singing "Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey ey goodbye at the end of their last game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 28, 2023, 12:07:19 PM
There is no stopping SLU with their new high powered offense and stingy defense.  They will now score multiple goals per game while still giving up only one per game with Woelfinger in the goal (and 11 men on the field) look for them to make an NCAA run. 

SLU
Hobart
Union
RPI
Vassar
Ithaca
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 28, 2023, 02:20:02 PM
Thus far it does not look like SLU has any desire to go forward with the ball.  They are a ticking time bomb giving up a goal with the back passing nonsense.  Every free kick so far has gone backwards.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 28, 2023, 02:24:32 PM
Called that one.  More self destruction on the road for SLU.  Now that RPI is up they are on track for a 4th place finish.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 28, 2023, 02:46:40 PM
Mac14
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 28, 2023, 02:57:17 PM
Enormous senior moment for McDougald to keep SLU in it.  Best set piece taker for SLU in over a decade, if not longer.

RPI and Union are up.  Union in 2nd place as it stands.   Exciting 45 minutes in store.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 28, 2023, 03:46:05 PM
LL is nuts.
I give up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 28, 2023, 03:54:31 PM
SLU is being out played. They are playing like the Laid Back Larry. Getting beat to the ball. It's like they have no heart. If they play like this they will be 1 and done in the LL tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 28, 2023, 04:07:23 PM
And as I suspected, SLU's horrid road performance travels with them and costs them a bye.  They only won one true road game all season and that was against last place Bard.  A tie would have given them the 2 seed, instead they cough it up and end up in 4th place having to play RPI.  Even if they do advance, I think their goose is cooked because you'll likely have to play any top 3 team on the road.   

They took the lead because they possessed and penetrated.  As soon as they went up, right back to pinging it around and getting beat to the ball everywhere.    This team needs the weight room bad, almost every team muscles them off of every 50/50 ball.


Hobart and Union get byes. 

Ithaca will play Vassar
SLU will host RPI
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on October 28, 2023, 04:14:00 PM
Does SLU not get a bye, swear they do?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 28, 2023, 04:15:16 PM
No, they are in 4th place. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 28, 2023, 04:25:40 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 28, 2023, 04:07:23 PM
And as I suspected, SLU's horrid road performance travels with them and costs them a bye.  They only won one true road game all season and that was against last place Bard.  A tie would have given them the 2 seed, instead they cough it up and end up in 4th place having to play RPI.  Even if they do advance, I think their goose is cooked because you'll likely have to play any top 3 team on the road.   

They took the lead because they possessed and penetrated.  As soon as they went up, right back to pinging it around and getting beat to the ball everywhere.    This team needs the weight room bad, almost every team muscles them off of every 50/50 ball.


Hobart and Union get byes. 

Ithaca will play Vassar
SLU will host RPI
Yup they were getting beat to every 50/50 ball and absolutely was getting outmuscled on every play.  Hobart show what can happen when you shoot the ball from outside the box today although all 3 goals were impressive.  SLU wants the pretty goal with passing it in but some times taking shots from outside will loosen up the defense.  Defensively they need to learn how to hold on to leads.  Hats off to Hobart. They deserve the win and the league. Hats off to all the teams that made the LL tournament.  There will be only one team that will be going dancing and that is the team who stands at the end.  Best of luck.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 28, 2023, 06:56:14 PM
While I have been Fauth propping all year Madsen won the POY award today.  I have to go with the best player on the best team rather than the best player on a team that sneaked into the playoffs. A goal by RIT or a second goal by Clarkson and Vassar would be home for the year.  As to physicality, you are right on.  SLU's chances of a three-peat are slim.  Ithaca overpowered SLU in their last game and Ithaca is not a physically imposing team.  I haven't seen Union play but they beat Vassar who is a physically imposing team, and RPI just outmuscled Vassar earlier this week.  Vassar didn't allow SLU a shot on goal in their last game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 29, 2023, 11:01:29 AM
I sense and share the frustration from the SLU fans as the team seems to turn on and off from game to game and throughout the game.  They play their best soccer when they go down a goal, playing with a purpose to actually score a goal rather than to see how many passes they can complete, usually going the wrong direction.  Some of the players seem to either have a lack of confidence or a fear of failure.  They work hard to get the ball to the opponents side of the field only to be taken down with hard fouls.  Their opponents are instructed to do this because their is no downside.  SLU won't bother taking the direct kick into the box.  They will just pass the ball backwards a couple times to their goalie who will then take a kick and land it right where their direct kick was awarded.  SLU took four shots from the run of play.  One was on goal. You can't score if you don't shoot. 
Hobart demonstrated how to play on a shorter and narrower field than SLU's home turf.   They put every free kick into the box. Some that were from their own half. They shot the ball from outside the 18, with two amazing goals from that distance.
When SLU went down they woke up and went forward.  Once they got the lead they went backwards and didn't continue to put on any pressure.
If SLU wakes up on Tuesday and beats RPI at home, as I expect they will, they must bring a different mentality back to Hobart for all 90 minutes. 
Regarding ROY, Brown made a strong statement.  Hobart did their best to try and take defensive player of the year away from Woelfinger. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on October 30, 2023, 09:56:03 PM
Any predictions for Liberty league playoffs?
Here are my predictions.  A bit biased.
SLU over RPI.  2-0
Vassar over Ithaca.  2-1

SLU Over Hobart 3-2
Vassar over Union. 2-1

SLU Over Vassar.  2-2.  Pks.  4-3
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 31, 2023, 12:00:44 AM
Although I am biased towards SLU I don't think they 3 peat. It is very hard to do especially when you have a target on your back and everyone is gunning for you.

SLU over RPI 1-0
Vassar over Ithaca 1-0

Hobart over SLU 2-1
Vassar over Union 1-0

Hobart over Vassar 2-1

Vassar scores all their goals on set pieces or thrown in the box. I hope I am wrong but like I said it is very difficult to 3 peat.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2023, 02:17:15 PM
Since Vassar is the lowest seed and Hobart the highest wouldn't Hobart play Vassar in the next round if Vassar beats Ithaca?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 31, 2023, 02:21:29 PM
Quote from: deutschfan on October 31, 2023, 02:17:15 PM
Since Vassar is the lowest seed and Hobart the highest wouldn't Hobart play Vassar in the next round if Vassar beats Ithaca?

the LL doesn't re-seed after the 1st round in any sport, they keep the bracket 1-4-5/2-3-6.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2023, 02:50:42 PM
So why in 2021 did 6rh seed SLU play 1st seed RPI after beating 3rd seed Vassar?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 31, 2023, 02:59:06 PM
SLU was 5th seed
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 31, 2023, 03:19:38 PM
SLU is pretty well cooked barring a drastic change in philosophy and tactics. They continue to think whoever makes the most passes backwards and sideways win the game. RPI's outside backs cannot keep up with SLU's speed but it doesn't matter since SLU passes themselves out of every chance. They've wasted over 5 minutes taking throw ins and goal kicks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2023, 03:21:14 PM
St. Law—u r right. For some reason my recollection was that SLU made its miraculous run from the 6 spot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 31, 2023, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 31, 2023, 03:19:38 PM
SLU is pretty well cooked barring a drastic change in philosophy and tactics. They continue to think whoever makes the most passes backwards and sideways win the game. RPI's outside backs cannot keep up with SLU's speed but it doesn't matter since SLU passes themselves out of every chance. They've wasted over 5 minutes taking throw ins and goal kicks.
So the same old same old. I have never seen a team that passes the ball back as much as SLU. Possession with purpose is their mantra but the name of the game is how many goals one scores; not how pretty it is. There are times when the SLU player could turn and take guys on but instead play it back. They have the speed to blow by these backs but rather pull up and play it back so the defense can set up. It's like a fast break on basketball game and pulling up for three pointer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 31, 2023, 03:31:56 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 31, 2019, 01:50:40 PM
St. Lawrence 2-0 down at home and playing the ball through the Goal Keeper.

Is this a joke... This style of soccer will lose many games.
PLAY FWD... The concept is not difficult.
Not sure if these boys dont understand that the point of the game is to go fwd and score or not??? NO one cares about possession unless it results in goals. Jeesh.
As you can see, some of us have been making this point for atleast 4 years.
Look, this Saint team is not the Saint team who will attack attack attack like when some of us old timers played. The boys are coached to hold possession maybe at the price of penetration. I dont love it, but it is what it is and you just have to support the team and the boys.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 31, 2023, 04:22:55 PM
And SLU's goose is finally cooked. If they played in the first half like they did in the 2nd they probably live to see another day. That intensity should feature in every single game not the last half of the last game of the  season.  RPI defended very well blocking numerous shots off the line but SLU took way too long using speed to their advantage.   They lost a lot of games on the margins and this game was no different. Well played to the Engineers who now have a lot of confidence going forward.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 31, 2023, 04:23:18 PM
Tough way to go out for the senior class.
RPI is a class program. No shame at all losing to them.
We go again boys.
Next season begins now as tough as that is to hear.
This pain will fuel hungry Saints next year.
First season without Dede/Sibanda was always going to be tough but we will be back stronger.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: College Soccer Observer on October 31, 2023, 04:24:09 PM
Ithaca with a late winner to move past Vassar 2-1.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 31, 2023, 04:43:45 PM
Who would of thought that the two teams predicted to finish in the top 2 of the league have their seasons ended on the same day.  Just goes to show that anything can happen.  There is no way these two get a pool C bid. Vassar has a better shot than SLU but that is very slim to nil.  Tosh needs to get on the recruiting trail and get some stronger, faster players because as Stlawnrce mention in a previous post, the SLU players seemed to get muscled off the ball a lot this year.  Love to get a foward like Gorman in here who could score goals and have hold up play.  Love to get a guy Laird or Copeland in the back who is big , skilled and a terror on set pieces.  Finally , finding a player like a DeMello, Dede, or Sibanda who can take over games by themselves or opposing teams have to account for at all time.  i know it is harder said than done but they sue to have a pipeline from the Rochester, NYC, NJ, CT, MA, CA regions.  I thought we could open that pipeline with MLK where Dede played but unfortunately it did not come about.  Lastly for the love of god, please play poession with a purpose and pentrate.  Attack the defense. Get them on their heels.  I believe this team can come back strong next year. Looking forward to seeing who Tosh will be brining in or transferring. It is a great school with a great tradition of soccer. Hope it can continue being that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 31, 2023, 05:42:41 PM
Vassar has 0 chance, no team is getting a pool C from the Liberty League.  You have to be in the top echelon of the regional rankings to have a shot, not a single Liberty League team has been regionally ranked.  Hobart might tomorrow but they'll be towards the bottom.

As Saint said, this is not unusual for SLU in the year after a major graduation loss.  The league has gotten better top to bottom as well.  I heard a few weeks ago Tosh is going to recruit from Europe this offseason.  At least I think that's what I heard, was admittedly more of an eavesdrop on my part during a game.   Today was the first time I've ever heard him get after the team as he's normally positive and encouraging.  It worked to an extent since they ramped up the intensity in the 2nd half.   They're really going to miss Woelfinger, his presence in the box is immeasurable and just look no further than Vassar to see a team deal with the loss of a tremendous keeper.   Good news for SLU is that most of the offensive output returns as well as the entire back line.  Just gotta get some players some development in the offseason and bring in some guys that can make a difference.  2 first years also missed the whole season due to injuries, so as Wenger often said "it's like a new signing". 

Any RPI fan reading all our griping could understandably come to the conclusion that us SLU fans think we lost more than RPI won and I just have to say that is not the case.  RPI deserves all the credit.  If they defend like they did today by clearing almost every chance in the middle of the box it will be a long day for Hobart.  I was glad I was able to see Clinton while walking back to my car to offer a quick congratulations in person, as I fully agree the guy is a class act.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on October 31, 2023, 06:09:00 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 31, 2023, 05:42:41 PM
Vassar has 0 chance, no team is getting a pool C from the Liberty League.  You have to be in the top echelon of the regional rankings to have a shot, not a single Liberty League team has been regionally ranked.  Hobart might tomorrow but they'll be towards the bottom.

As Saint said, this is not unusual for SLU in the year after a major graduation loss.  The league has gotten better top to bottom as well.  I heard a few weeks ago Tosh is going to recruit from Europe this offseason.  At least I think that's what I heard, was admittedly more of an eavesdrop on my part during a game.   Today was the first time I've ever heard him get after the team as he's normally positive and encouraging.  It worked to an extent since they ramped up the intensity in the 2nd half.   They're really going to miss Woelfinger, his presence in the box is immeasurable and just look no further than Vassar to see a team deal with the loss of a tremendous keeper.   Good news for SLU is that most of the offensive output returns as well as the entire back line.  Just gotta get some players some development in the offseason and bring in some guys that can make a difference.  2 first years also missed the whole season due to injuries, so as Wenger often said "it's like a new signing". 

Any RPI fan reading all our griping could understandably come to the conclusion that us SLU fans think we lost more than RPI won and I just have to say that is not the case.  RPI deserves all the credit.  If they defend like they did today by clearing almost every chance in the middle of the box it will be a long day for Hobart.  I was glad I was able to see Clinton while walking back to my car to offer a quick congratulations in person, as I fully agree the guy is a class act.
Besides Petrone whot was the other freshman that missed time.  Was it Scheibler?  Replacing Woelfinger will be tough but I think Charalambus is up for the task. He looked pretty good against Plattsburgh.  Hope Tosh can find some players.  Durocher was a master at finding players that could play D1 but wanting to come play at SLU.  His last recruiting class (2015 freshmen class) was very good one to leave Tosh with.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 31, 2023, 06:32:42 PM
Petrone is one of those D1 types and Scheibler had a concussion that kept him out for the whole season, apparently he also impressed in preseason before getting concussed.  League is going to lose quite a bit after this year.  RPI started several graduate students as does Hobart.  Vassar loses Fauth and some seniors, Ithaca started a handful of 5th years and grad students, Union loses a bit on defense and their best player is a senior (albeit with optional 5th year) but is otherwise in decent shape.

Fully agree with the recruiting comments, but recruiting has changed quite a bit since Durocher left.  Also have to be mindful of the looming enrollment cliff in a couple years with an already dwindled high school population.  Fewer kids, more or less the same amount of schools and an entirely different club/academy landscape.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2023, 07:13:20 PM
Well I too had Vassar and SLU 1-2 at the beginning of the season.  This is my Vassar post mortem.  In the games I saw I didn't witness any glaring keeper mistakes.  Rather, when they gave up goals it was because the defense just got beat.  The West Conn game was a harbinger of that.  Offensively, they got it done when Fauth did but otherwise no other player stepped up offensively.  Keker has 7 goals but they were less than impactful, three from the St. Mary's blowout, and no game winners in league.  Fiske finished great feeds from Fauth.  Allen, the NC fy coming off a 100 point senior high school season started in 17 games at central mid-field, played over 1300 minutes and had zero points on the year.  College soccer is definitely harder than high school.  Losing Fauth next year is somewhat like SLU losing Sibanda this year although they closed their careers in very different ways due to Sibanda being a much better player--especially in the League tournament.  This is no knock on Fauth as Sibanda was one of a kind.  It will be interesting to see how many Vassar players return as 5th years.  The tuition is not inexpensive and barely making the playoffs with a first round exit has to be extremely disappointing, especially having played Middlebury and Montclair even.  However, it has been a number of years since Vassar had a run in the LL Tourney.  I'm sure that Fauth and the rest of the team and coaching staff believed they would be dancing again this year with 9 starters returning.  Next year is much more of a question mark.  Maybe players will stay because they feel they have unfinished business or they are loyal to the school.  It is easy to be fond of the institution when everyone on campus has a smile on their face.  In the end that is probably what counts the most.       
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 31, 2023, 07:21:43 PM
Agree on all points, but you can't discount the intangibles from a goalkeeper like leadership and organizing a defense.  It's why I think SLU will really miss Woelfinger, he's always communicating and putting guys in the right spots.  Wnorowski was no different. 

Vassar basketball experienced the same thing last year that the soccer team experienced this season.   I always thought the LL championship run by Vassar hoops in 21/22 could see some major regression the following season despite them returning all 5 starters, and while they had an injury that's what happened in the end.  Vassar was a great team last year no doubt, but now you have to wonder if some of it was over performance and this year was regression.  In fairness, you can say this about most teams every season but when you bring back 9 starters and you get a much different end result one has to wonder.

In retrospect, many folks myself included greatly underestimated the loss of Miles Levy for SLU.  Of course, Sibanda was in a class of his own but Levy came close to challenging SLU's single season record for assists last year.  I always have high expectations for SLU but I'm not completely surprised at their end result given the loss of 2 midfielders of that caliber.  I get that it's easy to make comparisons but I think sometimes SLU fans look back and think the Durocher years were sweet 16 seasons every single season, but like many coaches he also had ebbs and flows. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 01, 2023, 11:31:26 AM
 I don't think either SLU or Vassar overacieved in a remarkable 2022 season where two teams went through conference without a loss. Your thoughts about SLU's midfield are dead on. Levy was an unsung hero in the shadow of Sibanda. For Vassar this year's demise was not a function of player loss or injuries. I think it was fatigue.  They were a different team in the second half of their home win against Ithaca as opposed to yesterday. Yesterday's tilt was the third game in less than a week at Troy, Rochester and Ithaca. Playing Middlebury is admirable but scheduling them mid-league is questionable and going mid-league for a second trip to Waltham for a meaningless result made no sense to me. The back to back weekend is also always strenuous when the second game is against an opponent who plays Bard. Fatigue doesn't explain every loss like West Conn when they couldn't defend or put a corner kick in play but I think it was a major factor late.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on November 01, 2023, 12:03:51 PM
Marco Wong another unsung hero of the SLU team. While is efforts were hardly ever truly appreciated, he did so much in breaking pressure and tracking ground. An extremely underrated player in the SLU 2022 team. Missing Toni Rogilano is also a big gap. Rarely got beat, and got forward so often. The SLU 2022 team was special, and frankly, if the first 15 minutes at Amherst went differently, I think they would have had a real chance at the Ship. All hypotheticals of course, but something to ponder. Tosh needs to be particular in his recruiting for next year, potentially go back to the Durocher roots of NYC and internationals. With a league that is dwindling in quality, the only way to attract top talent is to sell the prospect of a NCAA run. The SUNYAC is no better of a league than the LL, but it seems those top teams of Cortland and Oneonta constantly have NCAA experience as a selling point to recruits. Sad for the graduating seniors of this year, but excited for the years to come, SLU is a remarkable program, and like many others on this board, I have a real sense of pride in the future of it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Soccer BTN on November 01, 2023, 12:09:07 PM
In response to the SLU fans that have voluntarily voiced their frustrations throughout the season - I do hope that you can view the games with some sort of pride. They keep the ball well, play in 1-2 touches and do well to keep their opponents chasing for stretches of the game. You can understand the frustration with the lack of dangerous chances to show for their possession, but constantly questioning the gaffer's tactics does no good for the players or the team's success. It also does no good for your blood pressure...and I doubt that anybody can afford to add more stress into their lives these days!

You have to think that there has been a shift in D3 soccer that has been even further highlighted with recent changes to the OT rules. In years past, a team that plays the style that SLU does would greatly benefit from having an extra 20 minutes to find a game winner. A team that has spent the better part of 90 minutes chasing their opponent would be content with sitting back and looking to hit on the counter - and you rarely find teams that consistently find success playing "not to lose" rather than "playing to win." We would love to think that D3 soccer can be played the same way that we see on TV at the highest levels, but the name of the game is creating dangerous chances and denying chances - which you have to say RPI did a phenomenal job of getting numbers back, staying compact, and being brave in the box.

Tosh clearly does a good job coaching his players to follow what he believes is the way to play - keeping the ball. Whether or not this is the style that will take SLU as far as their fans would like is a different discussion. If he changed his tactics to neglect possession and create as many chances as possible, I am sure there would still be complaints about the style. Tosh has done well recruiting in the past and all you can do is hope that this fuels his hunger to repay the faithful alumni.

All in all - glad that a fanbase has so much representation on these boards. Reading your posts gave context as I watched their games that I might not have tuned in to without your presence here.

As for the remainder of the LL tournament - what are the predictions for Hobart vs. RPI & Union vs. Ithaca?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 01, 2023, 12:20:41 PM
It was a tough and disappointing end to the season, although they left it all on the table in the final half.  I believe they had about 15 shots in the second half alone.  Their average for the season was about 10 shots per game.  It was great to watch them play with purpose although they couldn't get it done in the final third.  Missing Levy in the midfield was big, as well as Marco Wong, who continued to improve with every game last year.  Unfortunately he didn't come back for his senior year.  The midfield will get a makeover next year with Pijpers, Peacock and McDougald graduating.  Jeremy Ogango's position on the field moved forward and wouldn't be surprised to see him as a midfielder next year.  The way SLU plays, the midfield is the most important group as they play possession.  Many teams just skip the midfield and kick long balls.  They actually seemed to have the most success when they played the ball over the top yesterday, as the speed of Mogul and Edwards, and the toughness of Campbell, Brown and Graber, enabled them to complete many of those long passes.  I feel good about next year and the commitment that Tosh makes to playing his game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 01, 2023, 12:21:16 PM
Oh don't worry, I don't take things too seriously, but you made several good points. You're dead on about the OT change, SLU used to love playing in OT, lost very few games in the extra stanza. As far as questioning tactics, you're pretty much right on all points, and as I said yesterday while having high expectations it's not realistic to put a lot of pressure on the program to make deep runs every single year even given the team's history. For as much as I've criticized the back passing the style of play is second to none, especially when you watch most other games and see lots of back to front. On the whole they were still a very young team and I'm quite confident in their near and long term future. Tosh is unquestionably the man to lead the program for hopefully many years to come.


As for predictions, I would love to see RPI do what SLU did in 2021 and make a run from the 5th seed, but I'm thinking Hobart gets that one. RPI had to block a lot of shots off the line against SLU and struggled to keep possession. I think with Hobart's ability to score from anywhere that makes that a near impossibility to replicate.

Ithaca has won 2 straight games after being down a goal, so despite having to travel I think they win to get to the final.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 01, 2023, 12:32:06 PM
Saint Dad, great point about Ogango. He looked really good in a holding midfielder position yesterday.  He's sneaky fast and has excellent ball control. With Scheibler ready for next season I would think he would slot in to Ogango's previous CB role. Would make a good sized CB pairing between him and Diaz.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Christan Shirk on November 01, 2023, 04:29:45 PM
REGION III - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - November 01, 2023

Rank

School
. Div. III .
Record
. Div. III .
SOS

 . R-v-R .
. Overall .
Record
. Prev. .
Rank
1.
Cortland State
13-2-2
0.596
4-1-2
13-2-2
1
2.
Oneonta State
13-2-3
0.582
1-2-3
13-2-3
2
3.
Brockport State
9-2-5
0.580
2-1-3
9-2-5
3
4.
Rochester
8-2-5
0.579
1-1-2
8-2-5
5
5.
Buffalo State
11-4-3
0.563
2-3-1
11-4-3
6
6.
New Paltz State
9-3-4
0.584
1-3-2
9-3-4
4
7.
Hobart
10-5-2
0.571
1-4-0
10-5-2
--
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 01, 2023, 04:54:25 PM
Thanks Christian.  I hope you regale us with your Pool C insights this year even though I don't foresee a LL team obtaining a Pool C bid.  Hobart as the current number 7 in the region probably is out of luck if it doesn't win the tournament, especially sitting on 5 losses already, and with a 1-4 RvR which will not improve in the upcoming tournament games.  There will be some interesting bubble teams including last year's NCAA runner-up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 03, 2023, 10:27:08 AM
So I get that the SLU crowd is still in mourning. However it is time to pick the semis. Ithaca ends Union's Cinderella season and Hobart learns from the second half of the SLu/RPI game and dominates at home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 03, 2023, 12:39:01 PM
Still mourning. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2023, 01:26:39 PM
I also think Hobart keeps up their winning ways.  I'll take Union advancing on PKs 5-3 after a scoreless regulation and OT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 03, 2023, 01:53:59 PM
I'll go with union over Hobart.  It all seems like a coin flip. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2023, 03:23:26 PM
RPI scored 7 minutes and 52 seconds into the game against SLU.

They scored 7 minutes and 50 seconds into the game against Hobart.  Honestly they should be up 3-0 right now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Soccer BTN on November 03, 2023, 03:43:03 PM
Incredible equalizer by Connor Koschineg. Hobart starting the second half much better after losing Madsen in the 1st half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2023, 03:46:12 PM
It should not be sustainable for Hobart to score all these wonder goals every single game but they continue to do so.  RPI regretting not burying their chances in the first half.  I really have not seen a team score goals like this across a long stretch of games before this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2023, 04:00:30 PM
In 2021 RPI was loaded with 5th year experience, had nothing to show for it in the end.

This year RPI has a good amount of 5th year experience, and are finally getting dividends.  2 goals from Gaudiano.  If RPI defends like they did against SLU in the second half for these last 25 minutes they'll finally get over the semi final hump that's plagued them for several years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2023, 05:02:54 PM
Late heroics from Madsen and 5th year Fierro send Hobart into the finals.  Madsen sacrificed his right leg for the result.   Great run for RPI, were oh so close to pulling off another upset. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 03, 2023, 07:21:24 PM
Nice call on the Union/Ithaca overtime prediction and since shootouts are always a coin flip no demerits in picking Union.  The games today reminded me how exciting OTs are and that the rule change has been a detriment at least to the fans.  Gaudiano tried to put the game away all by himself in the first half and almost did.  Between the Covid year and his injury year he could come back as a sixth year in 2024.   He currently leads the LL in goals and points, and as he has proven to have recovered from his injury I would not be surprised if he found a D1 home for his final year of eligibility.  Madsen's OT game winner solidifies his POY credentials.  My guess is Perugini from Union gets the FY award and Woelfinger gets DPOY for second year in a row.  If Brown wins newcomer of the year with fewer goals, points, and gw goals than the leading scorer from the number 2 team in the league then there should be an investigation.  Hobart should take the final with relative ease.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 05, 2023, 03:47:48 PM
Tale of two halves as the first half had on us on pace for the most boring Liberty League final in history.  Ithaca was just flat and Hobart capitalized on every single mistake.  Congrats to the Statesmen, their 5th year leadership was extremely evident during league play and the playoffs.  Also doesn't hurt to have a former SLU great on the coaching staff  ;)  Given their location they might be able to avoid a NESCAC in the first round, but you never know.  Maybe they get sent to the Cortland pod?  Not unusual for the committee to stack NY teams in one pod.    Madsen is still injured yet he still scored today, and their best defender got injured against SLU and hasn't played since but it hasn't slowed them down at all.  They have a definite home field advantage with their smaller dimension grass field, but I could see them upsetting a top dog.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 05, 2023, 03:54:20 PM
Hobart puts a 4 spot on the board in the second half and wins with relative ease.  Kudos to Ithaca who got past two very good teams in Vassar and Union to get to the final.  Another one bid year for the LL with SUNYAC likely getting 3 and maybe 4.  St Law alluded to this before that recruiting in the future is going to become harder and harder.  SUNYAC has the advantage over LL teams of much lower tuition and easier admission standards.  For excellent students who can afford higher tuitions NESCAC is the gold standard with the UAA and Centennial following behind.  Hobart is a very deserving champion who put together a great late season run and whose top recruit didn't play a game.  Whatever happened to their high school All-American that everyone wanted?  Watching Madsen limp off after his goal was like watching Kirk Gibson limp around the bases in the World Series.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 05, 2023, 03:59:52 PM
Hobart had 2 HS AA's come in this year, but only Mulrooney was on the roster.  Mosehathebe is the player you're referring to, and he was on the roster for about 3 days to start the season before being deleted.  Maybe an injury?  Although he wasn't in any of the team pictures that were posted on social media when students returned to campus so who knows. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 06, 2023, 04:12:07 PM
Not an easy draw for Hobart.  SUNYAC ends up with only 2 bids--more teams will need to change their name to Red Dragons.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 06, 2023, 04:27:01 PM
Brockport's loss in the semi's along with Rochester's win over Emory, ended Brockport's hopes for an NCAA bid.  Only two at large bids from region 3.  I thought they may give one more, especially with the performance of Cortland, Oneonta, Vassar and SLU last year.  I believe they all won the first round with the SUNYAC schools advancing to the second weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 06, 2023, 04:32:55 PM
Like basketball last year, a good amount of good teams left out due to several bid thieves.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on November 06, 2023, 04:46:54 PM
Probably slightly biased, and I understand cost and geography play a big role, but it feels as though teams on the east coast, specifically the northeast get screwed over in these draws. Teams such as St. Olaf, UChicago, Calvin get a free run to the sweet 16 as the AQ's from that region are so poor. I understand to win the whole thing you have to play good sides eventually, but it just feels west coast and Midwest teams have an easier start of the journey. Hobart draws CWRU, to then basically play Cortland. Those are two tough games right off the bat. Vassar last year had to beat a good Babson team and then played Bowdoin.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kuiper on November 06, 2023, 05:51:42 PM
Quote from: saint_forever on November 06, 2023, 04:46:54 PM
Probably slightly biased, and I understand cost and geography play a big role, but it feels as though teams on the east coast, specifically the northeast get screwed over in these draws. Teams such as St. Olaf, UChicago, Calvin get a free run to the sweet 16 as the AQ's from that region are so poor. I understand to win the whole thing you have to play good sides eventually, but it just feels west coast and Midwest teams have an easier start of the journey. Hobart draws CWRU, to then basically play Cortland. Those are two tough games right off the bat. Vassar last year had to beat a good Babson team and then played Bowdoin.

I understand the sentiment, but I just thought I would jump in from the western region perspective.   

This year, the gripe from the teams in Region X is that Colorado College is the only team that has to fly across multiple time zones to Atlanta to play in a pod with three teams who are all in close proximity who have no time zone adjustment, while Pacific Lutheran is the only team that has to fly across multiple time zones to a different climate in Minnesota to play in a pod with three teams in close proximity who have no time zone or weather adjustment.  Plus, Occidental has to fly halfway across the country to San Antonio to play three teams in close proximity and is going to probably feel like they were dropped in the middle of the feud between the Hatfields and the McCoys.  Moreover, I doubt either Trinity and St. Thomas are thinking they got off easy being slated to play each other for a third time in a little over two weeks, and a week after playing a brutal double OT game, if they both advance in the first round (while the brackets in every other region are structured to avoid teams in the same conference playing each other in the first two rounds).  There will be one team from Region X in the Round of 16 automatically from the San Antonio pod, but it may be a blood bath (quite literally) for the teams to get there.  And, to top it off, the Region X teams always have to travel the farthest for that Round of 16 game and often with both time zone changes, weather adjustments, and a quick turnaround between long flights for those teams that had to fly far for the first round of games.  It sure doesn't feel like the west coast teams have an easier path to advance in the tournament.  If anything, the odds are always stacked against them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ron Boerger on November 06, 2023, 06:03:57 PM
Quote from: Kuiper on November 06, 2023, 05:51:42 PM
Quote from: saint_forever on November 06, 2023, 04:46:54 PM
Probably slightly biased, and I understand cost and geography play a big role, but it feels as though teams on the east coast, specifically the northeast get screwed over in these draws. Teams such as St. Olaf, UChicago, Calvin get a free run to the sweet 16 as the AQ's from that region are so poor. I understand to win the whole thing you have to play good sides eventually, but it just feels west coast and Midwest teams have an easier start of the journey. Hobart draws CWRU, to then basically play Cortland. Those are two tough games right off the bat. Vassar last year had to beat a good Babson team and then played Bowdoin.

I understand the sentiment, but I just thought I would jump in from the western region perspective.   

This year, the gripe from the teams in Region X is that Colorado College is the only team that has to fly across multiple time zones to Atlanta to play in a pod with three teams who are all in close proximity who have no time zone adjustment, while Pacific Lutheran is the only team that has to fly across multiple time zones to a different climate in Minnesota to play in a pod with three teams in close proximity who have no time zone or weather adjustment.  Plus, Occidental has to fly halfway across the country to San Antonio to play three teams in close proximity and is going to probably feel like they were dropped in the middle of the feud between the Hatfields and the McCoys.  Moreover, I doubt either Trinity and St. Thomas are thinking they got off easy being slated to play each other for a third time in a little over two weeks, and a week after playing a brutal double OT game, if they both advance in the first round (while the brackets in every other region are structured to avoid teams in the same conference playing each other in the first two rounds).  There will be one team from Region X in the Round of 16 automatically from the San Antonio pod, but it may be a blood bath (quite literally) for the teams to get there.  And, to top it off, the Region X teams always have to travel the farthest for that Round of 16 game and often with both time zone changes, weather adjustments, and a quick turnaround between long flights for those teams that had to fly far for the first round of games.  It sure doesn't feel like the west coast teams have an easier path to advance in the tournament.  If anything, the odds are always stacked against them.

Then we had the women's basketball round of 16 just last year where three of the four sectionals were in Massachusetts (https://d3hoops.com/notables/2023/03/sectional-hosts-announced) and the team that had the best qualifications to host had to fly over 1000 miles to play in one of them so the NCAA could save money, because that and not "fairness" is the primary criteria when travel expenses get factored in.  You (O.P) have no idea what being screwed over is when it happens to the island teams year in, year out, in numerous sports.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on November 06, 2023, 07:35:53 PM
I can understand that the travel is difficult, I don't doubt that plays a factor in performance, but I am sure if you asked the majority of Northeast team is they would rather fly to Illinois to play a team like Lake Forest in the first round, they would take it every time. I also think that while travel can be used an excuse for performance one way it also serves as a motivator in others. Travelling together, eating together, solely focused on the game has you more times than not mentally prepared. Kids aren't flying in on Friday night for a Saturday morning game. Again, I don't discredit that travel can hurt teams. My bottom line is one side of the bracket is significantly deeper than the other. Top teams are top sides in all the regions, but the difference between playing a NESCAC second round and not is big.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerpapa on November 07, 2023, 09:52:06 AM
Looking at the brackets where are the weaknesses you point to?  Are there any potential beyond the first round that you see?  I dont think so.....The glory of the NCAA tournament (November Madness) is that it is a true "national championship" with all conferences getting a bid.  There will always be first round games that may not be competitive on paper but everyone likes a cinderella.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: regionxfan17 on November 07, 2023, 12:23:58 PM
Another way to look at this is that on the left side of the bracket, there are only 4 first round matches between teams that are each ranked in their region, and 3 of those involve teams ranked 6 or 7 in their region.  The remaining 12 first round matches are between a ranked team against an unranked AQ.

By comparison, on the right side of the bracket, you have twice as many first round matches between ranked teams (8). Only 8 involve a ranked team facing an unranked AQ.

Putting aside the refrain that "anything can happen," the bracket is somewhat imbalanced by this measure, no?


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2023, 12:58:49 PM
Deutsch isn't going to be happy with the all league selections.  Fauth POY and Brown ROY.  Brown also got first team honors.   I will say from a very biased perspective he adjusted midway through the season and seemed to figure things out, I was pretty impressed by him.  Hopefully he keeps developing, on track for a great career. 

I am surprised Kedy Nana only got honorable mention, to me he was at least a 2nd teamer.  One of the better players I saw all season.   Perugini did get first team honors though, him and Brown the only first years among mostly seniors and 5th years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 07, 2023, 01:19:09 PM
Never one to be shy about my year end awards comments.  Congrats to Owen Fauth who proved that you can be the player of the year on a 6th place team.  He certainly was the most valuable player to Vassar as their fate rose and fell with his personal performance.  I thought Madsen would receive the award given Hobart's regular season championship but Fauth is a worthy recipient.  As for Brown as ROY--given Union's second place finish, I believed the coaches would have gone the Union direction instead of adding to SLU's historical overabundance of year end and weekly honors.  Awarding Brown First Team as a freshman is a bit over the top as well.  Was he really better than Mogul (who was perpetually double or even sometimes triple teamed) or Price or Keker, or .... I recall in the past that the last place team would not be represented but RIT getting shut out is bizarro.  Price was one of the leading scorers in the league.  He did get a red card in the last two minutes of his last frustrating game against Vassar but banishing him???  He was second in shots, was tied for the lead in regular season goals, and third in regular season points.  How does McDougald with all of 10 points on the season merit 1st team honors when Price goes unrecognized?   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2023, 01:22:17 PM
I think a lot of it comes down to the eye test.  Price had the good stats and I would have no issue with him being a first teamer, but McDougald's free kicks did a lot of heavy lifting for SLU.  Union's coach, Clinton and Griffin all saw him place perfectly hit free kicks in the back of the net at critical moments.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 07, 2023, 01:50:22 PM
St. Law--you were right about my reaction and you are right about the appeal of a bend it like Beckham free kick.  That said, it takes a lot more work scoring from the run of play than hitting a dead ball.  Anyway, numbers don't typically lie and 10 points for a first team forward is a meager amount.  Still don't know how RIT gets shutout.  I am happy for Fauth.  He is extremely bright and the decision to come back for a fifth year at Vassar was likely not an easy one.  Good for him.  There have only been a handful of Vassar players with multiple 20 point seasons.  His two great years put him in the top echelon of Vassar midfielders historically.  He will be greatly missed next year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 08, 2023, 06:01:04 AM
How do the coaches make their decisions on how to vote?  Do they base it on the one game that they see their opponent?  Do they base it on that game plus conference game stats?  Or look at overall stats as well?  McDougald was mentioned as having a 'meager' 10 points for a forward.  He is a midfielder and had 9 points in the conference games, which put him fifth overall in the league, a few points ahead of Owen Fauth.  He also had two game winning goals in those 9 conference games. Henry Brown also saved most of his scoring for conference games, with 12 of his 14 points coming in those 9 games.  Mogul was just the opposite, with only 2 of his 12 points in conference games.  The coaches saw tape and stats and began double and triple teaming him which slowed him down.  He was involved in a lot of goals where no assist was awarded.  I noticed that NESCAC awards two assists on a large percentage of goals.  I haven't seen that much in the Liberty League.  Although Mogul may be the top player on the team, you can understand why his teammate was picked over him.  It was pretty simple, the top 3 forward scorers in Liberty league games were first team.  Madsen, Brown, and Gaudiano.  McDougald was the second highest midfield scorer.  There just was not a lot of goals in Liberty League games. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 08, 2023, 03:50:22 PM
I have alluded to this in the past when I commented on the Dutchman being offensive player of the week for scoring 1 goal in a two game week, or when I listed the statistics showing that SLU had 30% more end of year honorees than Vassar during a time frame that Vassar had the better regular season record.  Whatever the reason for SLU's disproportionate bounty it continued this week.  SLU finished 4th in League, lost its home tournament opener, and ended the season a game over .500.  It had 5 1st or 2nd team honorees (honorable mention I don't count), and two players of the year.  Union, who finished 2nd in League had 2 honorees, and Ithaca who finished 3rd, and thoroughly handled SLU in its game this year, had 1.  As you note, there were not a lot of goals scored this year and under those circumstances you would think that the defense would be rewarded with honors, especially for a team like Ithaca who were low scoring but whose defense kept them in most games. Alas...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on November 08, 2023, 04:31:40 PM
I have to agree with Deutschfan about this.  I was very impressed with Outbridge from Hobart and thought he should have received the ROY instead of Brown. Brown did grow on me as the season went on. He has high work rate and scrappy.  Hope he doesn't have a sophmore slump next year and that he comes back.  Sometimes those Canton winters can get to some people especially for some who are not use to it.  Kady Nana only getting a honorable mention was wrong in my book.  The games i saw, he appeared to be one the best player out there at times.  i think some of the SLU players got their all star selections based on their reputation from last year.  Looking forward to see the recruits Tosh brings in and hope Hobart can make a strong run in the tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 09, 2023, 10:14:23 AM
I agree with some of the statements by Deutschfan and Kevdog, but the coaches are voting and I don't think there is a conspiracy for SLU or against other teams.  It's a relatively small sample size and sometimes individuals stand out.  I have to disagree with Kevdog's comment that  some of the SLU players got their all star selections based on their reputation from last year.  Pijpers was first team last year.  Nothing this year.  Campbell was ROY last year, nothing this year.  Graber honorable mention last year, again, nothing this year.  What reputation did McDougald have from last year, playing half the season and not on any list?  Henry Brown had no reputation as a first year.  You can make an argument for two other first years, but Brown was tied for the league lead in points (and led all FYs).  Oganga (nothing last year) is a sophomore and improved a lot this year and deserved the second team award.  The only two players from SLU that appeared on last year's list was Woelfinger (first team and defensive player of the year) and Mogul (honorable mention).  Were you referring to one or both of them getting their all star selection from their reputation from last year?  Woelfinger was defensive player of the week for many weeks and led the league in saves, shutouts, goals against average, saves per game, both in and out of league games.  He lived up to his reputation.  And Mogul arguably could have been first team over Brown based on the eye test, but statistics certainly favored Brown.  I join you Kevdog, in seeing improvement next year and wishing Hobart (and Cortland and Oneonta) a good performance in the NCAA's.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on November 09, 2023, 03:28:56 PM
I thought McDougald was 1st or 2nd team last year. Woeflinger definitely deserves to be defensive player of the year.  As far as Mogul i guess my expectations were very high for him. I was extremely impressed with him last year and he was destroying people last year going down that left flank. Although it was very hard to see on video becasue you are at the mercy of the videographer, but I guess he was double and triple team. ( It is easier to see in person).  I know that this will take his stats away as I don't think they were as good as last year.  That is why I think he made the 2nd team based on his reputation of being great player and someone that you need to contain.  I was thinking that he made make a run for player of the year when the season started.  I am hoping that Tosh gets some recruits to relieve the those double and triple teams that Mogul sees.  He is very fun to watch but I can see where opposing coaches might want to take Mogul away and let someone else beat them.  I think that is the respect that other coaches have for his ability even though his stats didn't show it this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2023, 04:10:34 PM
I got to all but 1 SLU home games this year, and it's actually a bit understated how much opposing teams keyed in on Mogul.  Doubled every game is not an exaggeration, he also got fouled away from the ball constantly.  His stats were ok but to me was very clearly one of the top 2 players for SLU this season.  He caused havoc in the 2nd half against RPI when they weren't double teaming which showed how good of a player he is.   I actually thought he looked even better against Plattsburgh when they played 4-4-2 and put him in that secondary striker/playmaker role. 

SLU is going to need a midfielder to step up next season or bring in someone that can make a day 1 impact.  Doesn't need to score goals, just be that anchor that can dictate play.  There are no known commits at the time, but I do know SLU is making a push for a highly talented midfielder in the NEPSAC, but that means all the usual good teams will be after him as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on November 09, 2023, 04:29:22 PM
Stlawus, I agree with you. They need someone can dictate the play like they had last year with Sibanda. We may never see someone like him again but he did take alot of pressure off his teammates. Do you know who the talented midfielder in the NEPSAC that they are trying to recruit?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2023, 04:41:53 PM
I'll DM you, don't want to put any public pressure or speculation on anyone that doesn't want it at this point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on November 09, 2023, 04:46:17 PM
Yes that true. Thanks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 10, 2023, 11:41:27 AM
Just want to send my best wishes to Hobart as they battle on the national stage.
It is always a shame when we don't get at least 2 dancers out of the LL, but that is also a testament to the fierceness of our league.

Hoping Hobart puts it on a few people to show them that the region and league is deserving of much respect.

The entire team and especially the seniors should be extremely proud of what their hard work has achieved and there should be much more to come!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 10, 2023, 12:26:58 PM
Genuine question about the dearth of bids for the LL this year and in recent years...

I think many agree that the LL is a very good conference with strength that extends towards the bottom (aside from Bard in the past and a down spell for Union that ended this year).

What do you LL experts think accounts for the variance with other conferences that are strong pretty much across the board like NESCAC and UAA and even Centennial in terms of accumulating the preferred stats and getting bids or even being considered in the mix to get bids?  How do NESCAC and UAA teams perennially have high SoS, partly off playing each other, and end up with so many bids?  If the LL suffers because the teams in it beat each other up too much then why does that dynamic not transfer in the same way compared to these other conferences?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: College Soccer Observer on November 10, 2023, 12:52:20 PM
I will take a stab at it from the NESCAC point of view. The 4 Nescac teams that got bids were Midd, Amherat, Conn, and Tufts. Midd and Conn did not lose a game in the regular season. Amherst lost to Babson and Conn. Tufts lost to Midd and Amherst. The rest of the league did not beat them up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 10, 2023, 01:11:16 PM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on November 10, 2023, 12:52:20 PM
I will take a stab at it from the NESCAC point of view. The 4 Nescac teams that got bids were Midd, Amherat, Conn, and Tufts. Midd and Conn did not lose a game in the regular season. Amherst lost to Babson and Conn. Tufts lost to Midd and Amherst. The rest of the league did not beat them up.

That may help explain this year but there are other years where NESCAC is more jumbled especially after the top couple of spots and they've still gotten 4-5 teams in.  And we often hear the same refrain from NESCAC followers that its teams face the murderer's row that is the NESCAC....teams from NESCAC and UAA also often have records that are 9-4-4 or 8-5-2 and they get bids.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 10, 2023, 01:36:13 PM
One also could argue that at least at the presumed top end of LL the teams play a tougher non-conference schedule than NESCACs with the possible exception of Amherst (and there's only so much you can milk Montclair and Babson).  Yes, I know NESCAC has a week less to play but the argument often is that just playing each other is enough (but for whatever reason that doesn't work for LL).

Hobart -- Muhlenberg, Mary Washington, Hopkins, Rochester, Buffalo St

SLU -- Geneseo, Cortland St, Oneonta St, Plattsburgh

Vassar -- West Conn, New Paltz St, Montclair St, Drew, Brandeis, Middlebury

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 10, 2023, 01:46:18 PM
PN, I've wondered the same thing often, but never did a deep dive to try to develop a theory.  And I won't be doing it at this moment either.  What I will say . . .

(1) It's hard to compare the Liberty League to the UAA because of how the UAA is spread across so many regions.  Not to mention, the UAA has simply been a stronger conference in recent memory.

(2) The NESCAC over the past decade or so has become the strongest conference in the nation and far ahead of all but the UAA (and maybe the Centennial in some years).  That in and of itself makes a comparison between the two conferences less insightful, but another big/significant difference is that the NESCAC dominates their region while the LL has to share Region III honors with the SUNYAC and Rochester with their perpetual tournament berth.  This simply means that there are fewer teams genuinely fighting for a spot in the rankings and at-large berths in Region I and it's dominated by NESCACs.  What this means is that the NESCAC schools can pick up more wins and ties versus ranked opponents and can do it just be playing their conference schedule (and playoffs).  With the SUNYAC in their region, LL teams have much fewer chances for these crucial wins/ties against ranked teams unless they schedule SUNYAC schools and besides Oneonta and Cortland, who knows which other SUNYACs will be ranked in a given year (just like how would you know which LL teams would be most beneficial to have on your schedule ahead of time).  I imagine if you took the top 7 teams that missed getting ranked in Region III, they would be on the whole better than the next seven in Region I, but for Region III and LL teams, having a deeper region (even if not as strong at the top) provides no benefit to their RvR, but it does add additional risk of picking up blemishes.

(3) I think the better comparisons/contrasts to look into are with the Centennial, MIAC, SUNYAC, also the NCAC (and this year the OAC).

Sometimes I wonder if it's a matter of too much parity within the league each year instead of just over time.  In other words, would it be better if just 2-4 LL teams rose to the top in any given season.  It's great that from year to year different programs can be successful, but if too many are good but not great in a given year and beat up on each other, it hurts your chances in a region shared with the SUNYAC.  Without actually studying data, I have the sense that most of these other conferences (1) don't typically have as many teams in the mix year-in, year-out and (2) don't have as much or as quick turnover of who the top teams are from year to year.

If someone did a deep dive, you'd need to look at out-of-conference scheduling league-wide versus those other conferences.  The Region III schools have less scheduling options (with no schools to the north or west) than Region IV and V schools, but Region VIII schools (home of the MIAC) has the issue of distance.

Well, I don't have the time or energy to really dig into it even though it has fascinated and perplexed me over the years.  Well, I'm just rambling and talking off the top of my head FWIW.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 10, 2023, 01:51:14 PM
What's that quote from Jack Nicholson in The Departed?  "And if I can slander my own environment, it makes me sad".  Simply put the Liberty League is a step below the NESCAC and UAA on the whole.  While the top half/two thirds of the league generally plays a decently strong schedule, the difference between it and the NESCAC/UAA is that the Liberty League loses more of those games.  So while they'll get the SOS they don't get win %, the RR wins and head to head comparisons.  When it comes time for the league to cannibalize itself it results in teams losing regionally ranked criteria that a NESCAC or UAA would otherwise keep. 

The furthest a LL team has got in a decade or so is RPI's elite 8 run in 2019.  Other than that, it's usually been a sweet 16 or lower run for Liberty League teams.  A great league that I'm proud to be a fan of, but the Liberty League will always have those slight recruiting disadvantages compared to the NESCAC and UAA which creates the dynamic I just explained.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 10, 2023, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 10, 2023, 01:46:18 PM
PN, I've wondered the same thing often, but never did a deep dive to try to develop a theory.  And I won't be doing it at this moment either.  What I will say . . .

(1) It's hard to compare the Liberty League to the UAA because of how the UAA is spread across so many regions.  Not to mention, the UAA has simply been a stronger conference in recent memory.

(2) The NESCAC over the past decade or so has become the strongest conference in the nation and far ahead of all but the UAA (and maybe the Centennial in some years).  That in and of itself makes a comparison between the two conferences less insightful, but another big/significant difference is that the NESCAC dominates their region while the LL has to share Region III honors with the SUNYAC and Rochester with their perpetual tournament berth.  This simply means that there are fewer teams genuinely fighting for a spot in the rankings and at-large berths in Region I and it's dominated by NESCACs.  What this means is that the NESCAC schools can pick up more wins and ties versus ranked opponents and can do it just be playing their conference schedule (and playoffs).  With the SUNYAC in their region, LL teams have much fewer chances for these crucial wins/ties against ranked teams unless they schedule SUNYAC schools and besides Oneonta and Cortland, who knows which other SUNYACs will be ranked in a given year (just like how would you know which LL teams would be most beneficial to have on your schedule ahead of time). I imagine if you took the top 7 teams that missed getting ranked in Region III, they would be on the whole better than the next seven in Region I, but for Region III and LL teams, having a deeper region (even if not as strong at the top) provides no benefit to their RvR, but it does add additional risk of picking up blemishes.

(3) I think the better comparisons/contrasts to look into are with the Centennial, MIAC, SUNYAC, also the NCAC (and this year the OAC).

Sometimes I wonder if it's a matter of too much parity within the league each year instead of just over time.  In other words, would it be better if just 2-4 LL teams rose to the top in any given season.  It's great that from year to year different programs can be successful, but if too many are good but not great in a given year and beat up on each other, it hurts your chances in a region shared with the SUNYAC.  Without actually studying data, I have the sense that most of these other conferences (1) don't typically have as many teams in the mix year-in, year-out and (2) don't have as much or as quick turnover of who the top teams are from year to year.

If someone did a deep dive, you'd need to look at out-of-conference scheduling league-wide versus those other conferences.  The Region III schools have less scheduling options (with no schools to the north or west) than Region IV and V schools, but Region VIII schools (home of the MIAC) has the issue of distance.

Well, I don't have the time or energy to really dig into it even though it has fascinated and perplexed me over the years.  Well, I'm just rambling and talking off the top of my head FWIW.

Thanks, FW.  Very helpful, especially imo the highlighted portion above.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 10, 2023, 01:55:56 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 10, 2023, 01:51:14 PM
What's that quote from Jack Nicholson in The Departed?  "And if I can slander my own environment, it makes me sad".  Simply put the Liberty League is a step below the NESCAC and UAA on the whole.  While the top half/two thirds of the league generally plays a decently strong schedule, the difference between it and the NESCAC/UAA is that the Liberty League loses more of those games.  So while they'll get the SOS they don't get win %, the RR wins and head to head comparisons.  When it comes time for the league to cannibalize itself it results in teams losing regionally ranked criteria that a NESCAC or UAA would otherwise keep. 

The furthest a LL team has got in a decade or so is RPI's elite 8 run in 2019.  Other than that, it's usually been a sweet 16 or lower run for Liberty League teams.  A great league that I'm proud to be a fan of, but the Liberty League will always have those slight recruiting disadvantages compared to the NESCAC and UAA which creates the dynamic I just explained.

Also helpful...and btw it was never my intention to suggest that LL is on the level of NESCAC or UAA but more to address the refrain heard from NESCAC and LL folks at times that their own conference is their worst enemy...although in the case of NESCAC the opposite seems to hold for the most part.  For you LL folks, that's tough to the extent that it is true that you have a very competitive conference (among yourselves) without getting much benefit out of it (in terms of rankings, bids, etc at least).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 10, 2023, 02:03:59 PM
I have a math phobia, and this is slightly off-topic, but my sense is that some schools are masters at perennially scheduling one of the top two out of the weakest conferences as a way to boost or mitigate SoS...but the schedules of those teams that include the 2-15 teams in their conference also figures in.  I do know that a couple of 1-16 or 3-14 teams on the schedule can do a lot of SoS damage.  And sometimes you just don't know.  You could have Centre the year the make the Final Four or a subsequent season where they are below .500.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 10, 2023, 02:09:26 PM
All that said (and to be honest I'm not sure of the data bears out that Region III teams have a harder time piling up ranked win/ties), probably the biggest question to answer is why are the SOS among Region III ranked teams general and significantly lower than Region I/NESCAC schools.  And that's why I said any deep dive needs to look at non-conference scheduling between the different conferences (in additional to how differently the conference schedule that you can't control does or doesn't widen the gap).  In other words, do the bottom teams in the NESCAC schedule tougher non-conference schedules (the OOWP contribution to SOS) to help compensate for their lower winning pct. (the OWP portion of SOS) than the bottom teams in the Liberty League.  IIRC, Union's schedule has been considered embarrassingly weak over the years and that impacts the SOS of the teams that play them.   If the bottom LL teams have similar win pcts. to the bottom NESCAC schools, but generally play weaker schedules, that all impacts their opponents' SOS.

Again, just thinking out loud.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerpapa on November 10, 2023, 02:12:43 PM
How is SoS even calculated?  Historical? 

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 10, 2023, 02:34:03 PM
Quote from: soccerpapa on November 10, 2023, 02:12:43 PM
How is SoS even calculated?  Historical?

You multiply your opponents' win percentage by 2/3 and multiply your opponents' opponents win percentage by 1/3, then add the two values together.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 10, 2023, 03:10:17 PM
I agree with a lot of what's been written already.
Nescac is just better.   They are also much deeper.  I could argue that 5 of SLUs starters from last year could have started on Amherst's team.  I could also argue that 6 players from Amherst's bench could have started on the same SLU team.  Look at conn college roster.  Almost 40 players.  Perhaps there will be a few on the transfer portal. 
As was mentioned, there is one top conference in region 1.  Liberty league shares with Rochester and SUNYAC.   That's 3 spots gone.  The most that the liberty league or Sunyac can expect to get in the NCAAs is 2.  Sunyac came close to 3 this year.  And if they can't get three this year, I don't see it happening any year.  Perhaps with Rochester and the LL having a bad year.  My conclusion is to not be overly concerned about SOS as pretty much the only way a LL team can make the tournament with an at large bid is coming in first or second in the league and losing in the final of the tournament. In fact I think SLU should get rid of the Hartwick Oneonta back to back weekend at Oneonta and replace it with a home weekend against weaker opponents.  Oneonta weekend always ends up with injuries.  Home weekend against weaker opponents would give team confidence and allow all players to show if they can play during the season.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 10, 2023, 03:28:13 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 10, 2023, 02:03:59 PM
I have a math phobia, and this is slightly off-topic, but my sense is that some schools are masters at perennially scheduling one of the top two out of the weakest conferences as a way to boost or mitigate SoS...but the schedules of those teams that include the 2-15 teams in their conference also figures in.  I do know that a couple of 1-16 or 3-14 teams on the schedule can do a lot of SoS damage.  And sometimes you just don't know.  You could have Centre the year the make the Final Four or a subsequent season where they are below .500.

Any bubble team needs to weed their schedule of the 2-15-0 and 3-14-1 teams in their non-conference schedule to give themselves a fighting change.  Those opponents kill, kill, KILL one's SOS.  In my opinion, unfairly so.

If the current SOS computation is to remain in place versus undergoing a major overhaul, that I still strongly believe in and propose a modification to place a floor on the OWP.  Any opponents' record below .400 (or .425 or .450) for SOS computational purposes should be taken as .400 (or .425 or .450).  Bad teams are bad teams, and after a certain point, the difference in the probability of a win/risk of a loss is irrelevant for teams deserving of consideration for an at-large tournament berth.  What the threshold should be would require some parametric studies and experimentation applied to past seasons.  But I think that would be a huge improvement in the current SOS computations.  Who knows, maybe Western Connecticut gets in last year with such a threshold in place.  Imagine if non-conference opponents John Jay 5-11-2 (.333), Westfield St. 3-10-5 (.306), Pratt 1-12-3 (.156), and Trinity-CT 1-11-3 (.167) were all treated as .400 teams for SOS.  Those teams killed a SOS that already started low due to their conference affiliation.  But should a win over GNAC's Rivier 6-8-3 (.441) speak any more to a team's qualification to participate in the NCAA Tournament than beating Pratt? For me those games are irrelevant and distinction between them shouldn't be made.  Or take Middlebury's opener in 2022, Skyline midtable Mount St. Mary 8-6-4 (.555).  Did that game prove that Middlebury was more worthy of a tournament berth than Western Conn?  The Pratt game alone was approximately a 13 pt. drain on West Conn's SOS.

     West Conn GP = 22, West Conn's SOS = .518, Pratt win pct = .156, Pratt OWP = .436
     Average contribution to West Conn's SOS  =  SOS / GP  =  .518 / 22  =  .024
     Pratt contribution to West Conn's SOS  =  1/GP [2/3 OWP + 1/3 OOWP]  =  1/22 [2/3(.156) + 1/3(.436)]  =  .011
     .024 - .011 = 0.013 diff.

If a .400 bottom threshold was applied, Pratt's adjusted contribution to West Conn's SOS would have been .020 or a mere 0.006 drain on their SOS instead of 0.013.  That would have lifted West Conn's SOS from .518 to .523.  Apply this to all their sub-.400 opponents and maybe their SOS climbs into the mid-.540's or higher which combined with their pristine 20-0-2 record might have gotten them in.

Now, that doesn't mean teams shouldn't schedule intelligently and challenge themselves more if they want to become tournament participants, but this would mitigate the impact of the horrible teams' in your own conference and any non-conference opponents that do even worse than expected.

Whether a similar cap on the high end would be beneficial or not, I've never decided.  For example, any win pct. over .900 (or .875 or .850) is treated as .900 (or .875 or .850) for computing SOS.  I would want to play around with the impact of that more before campaigning for such a change.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 10, 2023, 03:31:14 PM
Quote from: Saint_Dad on November 10, 2023, 03:10:17 PM
I agree with a lot of what's been written already.
Nescac is just better.   They are also much deeper.  I could argue that 5 of SLUs starters from last year could have started on Amherst's team.  I could also argue that 6 players from Amherst's bench could have started on the same SLU team.  Look at conn college roster.  Almost 40 players.  Perhaps there will be a few on the transfer portal. 
As was mentioned, there is one top conference in region 1.  Liberty league shares with Rochester and SUNYAC.   That's 3 spots gone.  The most that the liberty league or Sunyac can expect to get in the NCAAs is 2.  Sunyac came close to 3 this year.  And if they can't get three this year, I don't see it happening any year.  Perhaps with Rochester and the LL having a bad year.  My conclusion is to not be overly concerned about SOS as pretty much the only way a LL team can make the tournament with an at large bid is coming in first or second in the league and losing in the final of the tournament. In fact I think SLU should get rid of the Hartwick Oneonta back to back weekend at Oneonta and replace it with a home weekend against weaker opponents.  Oneonta weekend always ends up with injuries.  Home weekend against weaker opponents would give team confidence and allow all players to show if they can play during the season.   

Responding to the red bolded part in the quote above . . .

RPI got an at-large bid in a year in which they missed out on the Liberty League playoffs.  SOS and RvR made that possible.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on November 10, 2023, 03:38:28 PM
The NESCAC is also simply better at recruiting students for school. Some of the top liberal arts schools in the country, naturally attracting top athletes who are also drawn in by the excellent athletics record. During my time at school, I could never understand how conferences like the Centennial get so many bids. Not that those schools are not good teams, but truly not good enough to warrant the amount of bids they did. Last year Vassar and SLU won their first round games, and got bounced by two top 10 teams in the country at that time, yet the league continues to get little respect. SUNYAC getting two bids while the LL is weird as most LL schools beat SUNYAC schools apart from Cortland and Oneonta. I do think both those teams deserved at-large bids, no doubt, but Brockport struggled with St. John Fisher, and were a controversial bubble team. In my opinion, SLU needs to schedule a couple games out of region in non-conference. I understand playing in region helps your regional ranking, but why not bolster SoS by playing a few team out of region. Save a game against Potsdam and play a Babson or Hamilton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ejay on November 10, 2023, 03:46:48 PM
is SOS published anywhere?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: coach analytics on November 10, 2023, 03:52:34 PM
Quote from: Ejay on November 10, 2023, 03:46:48 PM
is SOS published anywhere?

It's on the backup sheets of the NCAA regional rankings page....see the PDFs at the bottom. It contains data on every team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: kevdog on November 10, 2023, 04:21:03 PM
Quote from: saint_forever on November 10, 2023, 03:38:28 PM
The NESCAC is also simply better at recruiting students for school. Some of the top liberal arts schools in the country, naturally attracting top athletes who are also drawn in by the excellent athletics record. During my time at school, I could never understand how conferences like the Centennial get so many bids. Not that those schools are not good teams, but truly not good enough to warrant the amount of bids they did. Last year Vassar and SLU won their first round games, and got bounced by two top 10 teams in the country at that time, yet the league continues to get little respect. SUNYAC getting two bids while the LL is weird as most LL schools beat SUNYAC schools apart from Cortland and Oneonta. I do think both those teams deserved at-large bids, no doubt, but Brockport struggled with St. John Fisher, and were a controversial bubble team. In my opinion, SLU needs to schedule a couple games out of region in non-conference. I understand playing in region helps your regional ranking, but why not bolster SoS by playing a few team out of region. Save a game against Potsdam and play a Babson or Hamilton.

SLU use to play teams out of conference.  SLU use to play in the Flower Tournament hosted by Rochester that would bring in teams who either won the national championship the year before or was in the Final 4.  SLU also use to play Rochester, Hamilton (although they were in the same league back in the late 90's), and Middlebury but not any more.  The colleges that make up most of the Liberty League use to be in a league that was one of the top Division 3 league in the nation with RIT and Ithaca leading the way.  RIT was consistently rated in the top 5 back in the early 90's I believe and Clarkson went to the final 4 in 93 I believe.  I don't think NESAC schools were allowed to compete in the tournament until 1993 when Williams College hosted it and was in the final.  I just think that it is the evolving landscape of college soccer. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Crossit4fun on November 11, 2023, 01:20:47 PM
I agree in past years that was likely the case that LL was better than SUNYAC but not this year. Brockport drew against Ithaca (0-0).

These were somec of the middle of the pack SUNYAC teams

New Paltz beat Vassar, Skidmore and drew against Union (beat RPI in a friendly as well)
Plattsburgh beat Union & Clarkson and drew against SLU and RPI
Buff State lost to Hobart (2-3)

SUNYAC conference were very strong this year.  They had 4 or 5 teams in Region  III  rankings all season.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 11, 2023, 03:50:09 PM
Hobart's keeper let them down today, 1 goal off a bad rebound and the 2nd on a ball that was shot right at him more or less.  Watched the replay to see if it took a deflection but that was straight on goal. If the keeper just stood where he was it was a routine save.    The Statesmen did well to get it back within 1 off a defensive error.  This game showed how much Hobart used home field advantage in their LL run.  Their pitch is pretty small and Hobart used that to press and force pressure.   Seemed like they tried doing the same but with Cortland's pitch being bigger Case really hurt them on counter attacks. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 11, 2023, 07:37:38 PM
Right on per usual. No defense for goalie error. It happens at all levels. Check out the highlights of the Indiana-Michigan men's semifinal if they are around. Michigan's keeper gives up two rebound goals.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 28, 2023, 05:08:29 PM
3 LL players make first team all region
4 make second team
5 make third.
Interesting thing is two first team LL players did not even make third team all region while a couple second team LL and an honorable mention LL make all region.

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/2023-NCAA-D3-Men-All-Region-Teams.pdf
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerpapa on November 28, 2023, 05:15:12 PM
Obviously can have the debate about USC rankings/awards but....

Usually, conference awards are based on conference play and this award is related to the whole years "portfolio" of play (or should be).

Not sure of LL conference works.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint_Dad on November 28, 2023, 05:19:38 PM
Agreed.  Just pointing it out.  Mogul led his team and was involved in a lot of the scoring at the beginning of the year in the non-conference games.  Henry Brown did all of his scoring in the conference games.  He was left off of all region while Mogul was second team all region.  So makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 20, 2024, 10:12:17 PM
Since we're back up figure I'd do an updated commit list. 

Hobart-

Brady Leitner, D, Somers HS NY
Jake Hans, GK, Livingston HS NJ/STA Soccer
Will Hudson, GK, Kent School CT

Union-

Michael Lewis, D, Bridgton Academy ME
Alex Vittal, F, Belmont Hill School MA/Boston Bolts

Ithaca-

Kyle Sredniawski, M, Kings Park HS NY
Parker Giles, GK, Monroe-Woodbury HS NY/Tobar Futbol Academy
Emmet Enriquez, M/F, Denver South HS CO/Rapids Youth Soccer Club

SLU-

Grant Gilmer, Wingback/M/F, Mira Costa HS CA/Beach ECNL
Tommy Maidment, CB/CDM, Nichols School NY/WNY Flash
Kyle Reddish, M/CDM, Needham HS MA

Vassar-

Ken Hoang, M/F, Bergen Catholic HS NJ
Josh Lee, F, Liberty HS PA/FC Delco
Quinn Davidson, GK, Mamaroneck HS NY
Jack Staples, Summit HS NJ

Clarkson-

Dylan Nahas, F, Gardner-Webb University
Hudson Lewis, M, Erksine College

Bard-

Devin James, F, Hoover Vestavia HS AL

Skidmore-

Rowan McLear, GK, Beaver Country Day MA/IDA Valencia


*No currently known recruits for RPI and RIT
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 25, 2024, 05:15:54 PM
One more for SLU.   Ben Dietrich, CM/D, Newton South HS MA/New England Surf. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 17, 2024, 07:36:54 PM
From the sounds of it, although it wasn't 100% clear, it appears Josh Gaudiano won't be using his final year of eligibility at RPI that he has due to his medical redshirt.  In Clinton's interview with Simple Coach he made it seem like he wasn't coming back, which will hurt since he ended up having a very solid season. Always have to expect them to be competitive though, and I really liked their freshman CB Nana when I saw him in person 2 times.   RPI and SLU probably had the most youth last year in terms of minutes played, so there might be someone on one or both teams taking that next step next season.  SC interviews are giving us all our d3 soccer fix this time of year.