BB: WIAC: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Started by BDB, December 30, 2005, 09:19:54 AM

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Just Bill

Quote from: janesvilleflash on May 06, 2008, 06:28:08 AM
It appears one of the suspended players was a freshman. I'm thinking if my team voted against me playing, I'm looking for a new team to play for next year.
If the team has rules and the players on the team support the enforcement and consequences of breaking those rules, that's a team I'd be proud to be a part of.
"That seems silly and pointless..." - Hoops Fan

The first and still most accurate description of the D3 Championship BeltTM thread.

janesvilleflash

Quote from: Just Bill on May 06, 2008, 11:58:07 AM
Quote from: janesvilleflash on May 06, 2008, 06:28:08 AM
It appears one of the suspended players was a freshman. I'm thinking if my team voted against me playing, I'm looking for a new team to play for next year.
If the team has rules and the players on the team support the enforcement and consequences of breaking those rules, that's a team I'd be proud to be a part of.

If there was a vote, that would seem that the coach left the door open for them to play. The guys must not be liked or respected by their team mates. I don't see how else you could take it.
If you can't ignore an insult, top it; if you can't top it, laugh it off; and if you can't laugh it off, it's probably deserved.

Just Bill

I take it as the players had enough respect for the guys who didn't break the rules, to enforce punishment on the guys who did.  I'm sure the rule-breakers didn't like it, but then they shouldn't have broken the rules.  If a suspended player would like to transfer to a program with no accountability to your teammates, then by all means, please go.

Assuming team rules were broken, as a Point fan I'd be far more disappointed if they let them play.
"That seems silly and pointless..." - Hoops Fan

The first and still most accurate description of the D3 Championship BeltTM thread.

xyz123

Agreed Just Bill.  If you have rules, you better follow them, or why have them?

This discussion came up with the wife last night and she was of the opinion that most coaches, given the situation, would find some excuse or way around any team rule to have their best players available for these big time games.  I think its extrememly impressive that they stuck with their team rules and enforced their suspensions. 

janesvilleflash

Maybe what I don't understand is that if the rule was that they couldn't play, why would you have a vote. Wouldn't it be cut and dried? Having a vote tells me the rule allowed for them to play, and the players said no. Maybe someone can explain it so even a dope like me can understand. I don't condone breaking or even bending rules, I just have never heard of rules being voted on before.
If you can't ignore an insult, top it; if you can't top it, laugh it off; and if you can't laugh it off, it's probably deserved.

ballboy

I think the benefit of having a vote is that then they are directly disciplined by their teammates, which has more power and meaning than just having consequences of a rule. I do not believe that they are disliked or not respected, but rather that their teammates respect those who do follow the rules. I have a greater respect for Pointers coach now, as I am reminded that D3 athletics (and athletics in general) are not only about winning the game, but about creating an environment that helps young adults mature into successful people later in life.

In regards to the comment of xyz123, I agree with the wife that in many cases the coach would find an excuse, but those would primarily be in positions where the only goal for the team (and the coach) is to win (IMO). I am glad to see that the coach, program, and team were able to see that some things are more important than winning. And my hope is that those individuals learned a valuable lesson about accountability that undoubtedly will remain with them forever. I hope they accept the challenge to stay at that school, and work to earn the respect of their teammates, and their coach back (and I hope that their teammates and friends allow them the chance to earn that respect, and not just blame them for their season). Besides, you never know what is the one thing that may pull a team together in order to make a run to the big dance.

Bronko7

Quote from: xyz123 on May 06, 2008, 12:43:24 PM
Agreed Just Bill.  If you have rules, you better follow them, or why have them?

This discussion came up with the wife last night and she was of the opinion that most coaches, given the situation, would find some excuse or way around any team rule to have their best players available for these big time games.  I think its extrememly impressive that they stuck with their team rules and enforced their suspensions. 
Your wife is awesome she hit the nail on the head, but the fact that Coach Bloom put the punishment in the players hand is a harsher penalty then if he just says "you're done for the weekend" peer disaproval is a great motivator.

szlongball

Former Pointer Jordan Zimmerman makes his AA debut tonight in Harrisburg, PA.

OshDude

Sounds like Bloom either got really lucky or had the votes (or the ears and minds of the leaders, who can influence the team) before the decision was passed to the team.

My question is, what would Bloom do had the players voted to allow them to play? What would that say about his authority or his team rules in general? I'm leaning toward he knew what the outcome of the vote would be. Like others said, it means more to be cast aside by teammates than your coach. Statement opportunity, statement made IMO.

That said, c'mon ... you can root for the Titans ;). There are some good folks who follow and play on that team.

szlongball

Quote from: OshDude on May 06, 2008, 03:21:16 PM
Sounds like Bloom either got really lucky or had the votes (or the ears and minds of the leaders, who can influence the team) before the decision was passed to the team.

My question is, what would Bloom do had the players voted to allow them to play? What would that say about his authority or his team rules in general? I'm leaning toward he knew what the outcome of the vote would be. Like others said, it means more to be cast aside by teammates than your coach. Statement opportunity, statement made IMO.

That said, c'mon ... you can root for the Titans ;). There are some good folks who follow and play on that team.
Sorry Oshdude, you seem like a great person, but it doesn't take away from the fact that Fadness got a three game suspension and Bloom is done for the year(as I would think the kid from Superior). But Good Luck anyway to Oshkosh. May the best team win and hope everyone plays clean.

OshDude

And if you play dirty, please do so with Hooters girls.

BaseballFan

Quote from: xyz123 on May 06, 2008, 12:43:24 PM
Agreed Just Bill.  If you have rules, you better follow them, or why have them?

This discussion came up with the wife last night and she was of the opinion that most coaches, given the situation, would find some excuse or way around any team rule to have their best players available for these big time games.  I think its extrememly impressive that they stuck with their team rules and enforced their suspensions. 

I would disagree with that but thats my own opinion hoping coaches would do that. I know I have benched my best player for acting out and I would like to think most coaches would do the same but just dont know if they would.

cubs

Quote from: szlongball on May 06, 2008, 03:39:57 PM
Sorry Oshdude, you seem like a great person, but it doesn't take away from the fact that Fadness got a three game suspension and Bloom is done for the year(as I would think the kid from Superior).
Now in NO WAY am I trying to downplay the above incident, however some of you are making it sound like Bloom was this HUGE part of the Pointer team.  

He had a whopping four hits in 24 at-bats (good for a .167 BA) on the season, hadn't thrown out a base runner in six steal attempts, and for the most part started one out of every four games.  He was likely third on the depth chart behind Coe and Warwick and as the season winds down, his playing time would have probably been even more limited as coaches are more apt to put their top players out there on a more regular basis.

Now if this would have happened to Coe would it have been a bigger deal?  I hope not, however the loss would have been much more severe to the POinter's post-season chances.
2008-09 and 2012-13 WIAC Fantasy League Champion

2008-09 WIAC Pick'Em Tri-Champion

szlongball

Quote from: cubs on May 06, 2008, 07:34:50 PM
Quote from: szlongball on May 06, 2008, 03:39:57 PM
Sorry Oshdude, you seem like a great person, but it doesn't take away from the fact that Fadness got a three game suspension and Bloom is done for the year(as I would think the kid from Superior).
Now in NO WAY am I trying to downplay the above incident, however some of you are making it sound like Bloom was this HUGE part of the Pointer team.  

He had a whopping four hits in 24 at-bats (good for a .167 BA) on the season, hadn't thrown out a base runner in six steal attempts, and for the most part started one out of every four games.  He was likely third on the depth chart behind Coe and Warwick and as the season winds down, his playing time would have probably been even more limited as coaches are more apt to put their top players out there on a more regular basis.

Now if this would have happened to Coe would it have been a bigger deal?  I hope not, however the loss would have been much more severe to the POinter's post-season chances.
Yes, Bloom was number 3 on the depth chart, but he was still a part of the team. And he probably wouldn't have seen much playing time. And because Superior isn't in the playoffs, I guess that makes it okay to take out players that aren't a huge part of the team. And before you think I am picking on you I'm not.  No one has the right to intentionally injure a player from the other team, I don't care if it is a starter or a 4th stringer. The fact is Fadness is a key player, and he gets off with a 3 game suspension. And if this happened to Coe, you can bet it would have been a HUGE deal.
side note to Oshdude-cute response.

cubs

Quote from: szlongball on May 06, 2008, 11:45:29 PM
Quote from: cubs on May 06, 2008, 07:34:50 PM
Quote from: szlongball on May 06, 2008, 03:39:57 PM
Sorry Oshdude, you seem like a great person, but it doesn't take away from the fact that Fadness got a three game suspension and Bloom is done for the year(as I would think the kid from Superior).
Now in NO WAY am I trying to downplay the above incident, however some of you are making it sound like Bloom was this HUGE part of the Pointer team.  

He had a whopping four hits in 24 at-bats (good for a .167 BA) on the season, hadn't thrown out a base runner in six steal attempts, and for the most part started one out of every four games.  He was likely third on the depth chart behind Coe and Warwick and as the season winds down, his playing time would have probably been even more limited as coaches are more apt to put their top players out there on a more regular basis.

Now if this would have happened to Coe would it have been a bigger deal?  I hope not, however the loss would have been much more severe to the POinter's post-season chances.
Yes, Bloom was number 3 on the depth chart, but he was still a part of the team. And he probably wouldn't have seen much playing time. And because Superior isn't in the playoffs, I guess that makes it okay to take out players that aren't a huge part of the team. And before you think I am picking on you I'm not.  No one has the right to intentionally injure a player from the other team, I don't care if it is a starter or a 4th stringer. The fact is Fadness is a key player, and he gets off with a 3 game suspension. And if this happened to Coe, you can bet it would have been a HUGE deal.
Once again, please don't put words in my mouth.....

Anyway, I think it is out of line for anyone to say that Fadness' intent was to injure someone on either play.  If it was, my guess is only Fadness and those close to him would know. 

Who is to say that his intent wasn't to break up a double play against Superior?  (I wasn't there so I don't know the exact situation.)  How is it any different from a play at 2nd base?  NCAA rules state the runner needs to slide right to the base, (there is no "still reach the bag rule" like there is in MLB.)  I've seen some pretty vicious slides at 2nd base over the years, and people weren't calling "bloody murder."  The middle infielders know they need to get "clear" of the runner if they want to get a throw off.  Wouldn't the same go for a catcher at home?
2008-09 and 2012-13 WIAC Fantasy League Champion

2008-09 WIAC Pick'Em Tri-Champion