BB: WIAC: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Started by BDB, December 30, 2005, 09:19:54 AM

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OshDude

Quote from: szlongball on May 30, 2008, 01:11:15 AM
Oshdude
   Got to disagree about the use of Ruebens like he was used this year. For whatever reason he was unavailable for the regional tournament. I think having him available would have made a difference for Oshkosh. Neither Gerl nor Ruebens were a factor in helping Oshkosh get to the promised land. I would rather have 4 solid pitchers and a relief specialist as opposed to a guy that gets run out to pitch all the time. It looks good for making all conference, etc. But you want to win at the end of the season when it counts. Doesn't do a lot of good if he is great throughout the regular season and is unable to pitch when you really need him at tournament time. So I will say that using him like Lechnir did was a big mistake. He is very talented and I would hate to see something go wrong and end a possible great career at Oshkosh. Whitewater had the right idea and they finished 3rd in the nation. Point had the potential but not the drive that it needed. That's just my thought on the subject though.

Your reasoning is short-sighted. Oshkosh would not have won the regional with a win over St. Thomas or Carthage. The gamble was to get through UST with a committee (if needed) and have a mismatch with Rube in the next game. It obviously didn't work and the result was 0-2, but in hindsight that UST game was lost on a check-swing blooper, a 10-hopper and Lonnie Robinson. Would Rube have shut out UST, like would have been necessary? Maybe, but I doubt it. The regional was probably lost after the CC game. Hard to get through a tourney after starting 0-1. But after that loss, do you try to map out a strategy to win the whole thing or try to get one win? I agree that the winning strategy was to save Rube and hope for the best against UST. Burning Rube by throwing him against Robinson is the same as conceding the regional IMO.

Whitewater did well because it had better pitching and better hitting than UWO (and almost every other team, for that matter). UWO got one bad inning from Ryno thus a loss, a well-pitched game from a committee but a loss to a sharper Robinson and nearly zero hitting in either game. If UWO wins either of those games, Rube throws in a possible mismatch in Game 3 (4-6 IP) and is in the consolation driver's seat with Rube available the rest of the way. That's how UWO had to play it to win. After that loss in the opener, it was boom or bust. UWO went bust, but I understand the gamble.

And getting to the promised land had more to do with Gerl and Rubens. Suggesting that how they were used was the reason behind not reaching the finals is not fair. They were a huge part in getting to where UWO ended. Oshkosh just wasn't good enough to get to the finals. Placing the blame on how Rubens was used doesn't make any sense. Take a step back from the final UWO overall team result and tell me how Lechnir used Rubens over the course of the season was anything short of genius. Then tell me how many games you think UWO would have won in using Rube as a starter for more than the biggest games of the year, which he did start and did win most of them.

There's a good chance that you will never see the reasoning my way, but try. Using Rube nearly every game is nontraditional and very effective if you give it a chance.

What does the bolded part mean?

supermiac

Hm... maybe they should have used their ace against Carthage then...

OshDude

Quote from: supermiac on May 30, 2008, 05:39:25 PM
Hm... maybe they should have used their ace against Carthage then...

Lol ... like I wrote, I probably won't convince anyone ...

Demmin was their "ace" starter. Having Acevado face a LHP makes sense, no? Point being, if Ryno couldn't beat CC (his best matchup) UWO wasn't going to win the regional. Ryno didn't. UWO didn't. Burning Rube in one game, whether it be against Husing or Robinson, probably was not a good idea. I think people are under the impression that UWO had four awesome, consistent SPs.

Bronko7

Have to agree with Oshdude on this one. At some point the guys that pitched that weren't Rueben, would have had to. I believe Lechnir thought that they were going to out score UST even with L Ron pitching. If that game is a close situation I am 1000% sure Ruebens would have been on the mound. And then been able to pitch again later in the tourney. Lechnir wasn't hoping for a miracle he was hoping for guys to get through the line up a time or two and hopefully have a chance to win with Ruebens and still be able to use him.

dukes

In my opinion UWO should have taken a different approach to the tournament in general. The way it was set up, if they lose, they have to play the winner of the 1v6 matchup. Being they didnt have 4 quality pitchers who could win a regional game, so you say, they should have went with a committee in the first game. If you win, you still have your top 2 to get you to the championship. If you lose, you have your top guys to face St. Thomas as it was. They had a good lineup because realistically even if they would lose the first game, they only had to win 3 to win the tourney.

And I agree with the fact that you play to win the tourney, not just a game here or there. Look at the way that St. Scholastica used their pitching staff. Throw one of your top 2 against UWW, lost. Throw about you number 5 or 6 against the number 6 team and pretty much pitch by committee. If they lost that, you would be saying the same thing that they didnt use a major league prospect in the tourney, but they played to win.

As far as the way he was used all year, that is a bit debatable. There are pros in cons to it both ways. On the one hand, yes, Ruebens did get them many wins in big situations throughout the year. On the other hand, perhaps it would have been more beneficial if someone else could have proven they could get a bit win during the year, build some character and confidence, and then be able to step up and win a regional. If whenever you have a big game, or big situation, your top dog pitches so you get the win, then what is the attitude when he is not pitching?


Quote from: szlongball on May 30, 2008, 01:11:15 AM
I would hate to see something go wrong and end a possible great career at Oshkosh.

And I am just assuming, but I think the point that is made by this is injury. You train your body a certain way, to be able to endure a certain type of stress. The way it sounds he was used goes against some of that logic. I was the same way...I could throw every day if it was a big game, but it is a coaches responsibility to be aware of that. Just because he seems like he has a rubber arm, doesnt mean he does...

WLCALUM83

Doug Coe saw some action with the Windy City Thunderbolts, going 1 for 3 in his debut:

http://www.frontierleague.com/2008scores/wcy5290.html

supermiac

Quote from: OshDude on May 30, 2008, 05:52:39 PM
Quote from: supermiac on May 30, 2008, 05:39:25 PM
Hm... maybe they should have used their ace against Carthage then...

Lol ... like I wrote, I probably won't convince anyone ...

Demmin was their "ace" starter. Having Acevado face a LHP makes sense, no? Point being, if Ryno couldn't beat CC (his best matchup) UWO wasn't going to win the regional. Ryno didn't. UWO didn't. Burning Rube in one game, whether it be against Husing or Robinson, probably was not a good idea. I think people are under the impression that UWO had four awesome, consistent SPs.
No I completely understand that UWO wasn't as deep as other teams in the regional in terms of pitching. Yet, when everything is added up in the end, Ruebens was not used for a single inning. It must be very unsettling not only for Ruebens AND his teammates knowing that their supposed "ace" (which is what I've been hearing all year) was not given a chance. You can't simply "play for next year" come playoff time. What great disadvantage is it for Osh Kosh to pitch their #3-5 in the 3rd game anyways? It's certainly better than sitting at home watching the next round. Again, I fully understand the risk Lechnir was taking by not pitching him; but that doesn't make it right. There were several instances in the first two games for UWO when they could have used Ruebens to try to shut down Carthage and USt. They could have used him in the 3rd inning (I think) against CC, when Carthage piled up several runs. And they could have used him in the last 3 innings against USt to prevent them from scoring any insurance runs. Nonetheless, after hearing so much about him, I was disappointed not to be able to see him pitch.

OshDude

Quote from: supermiac on May 30, 2008, 09:18:53 PM
Nonetheless, after hearing so much about him, I was disappointed not to be able to see him pitch.
You can always head to next year's regionals ... on the rest, we can agree to disagree, I guess.

szlongball

Oshdude
  Not sure how that part got into bold. It was not intentional. I would just hate to see him develope any type of injury, because i think is VERY good. The point is that if Ruebens was used so much throughout the season, he should have been able to pitch in the regional. He pitched back to back days in the WIAC, so why was the regional different? And I agree that WW had the solid hitting and good pitching to get to the World Series. That is the point I was trying to make. They didn't just rely on 1 pitcher most of the time. It still is a team sport and you need to have a well balanced team to be successful. Jordan Zimmermann was a huge part of Point's team last year, but he also swung a mean bat. There were still 4 other pitchers on the team that contributed wins though, thus it was not just the Jordan Zimmermann show. Oshkosh still is one of the top 3 teams in the WIAC and I don't see that changing anytime soon. We have the right to disagree, just need to look at both sides. The last 4 appearances in the WS have been between WW and Point. Outside of WW relying on just 2 pitchers when they won it all in 2005, it seems that the 2 teams have relied on at least 4 good pitchers(at least through regionals). And I didn't mean to say that not using Gerl or Ruebens in the regional was the reason UWO lost. But if so much is based on their performances, I don't think that is fair either. Obviously there were other factors at play in UWO's lack of success.

badgerwarhawk

I didn't think Oshkosh's pitching was really the problem in the regional tournament.  They could have won with the pitching they got.  But when your teammates hit .167 and score 4 runs in two games even the best pitchers may not be enough.
"Just think twice is my only advice."

Mr. Downtown

I'm just wondering if people really thought Oshkosh could win the regional?

Cause last time I checked, on how the last 3 years have went, if its Play-Off time and its a UW-Oshkosh Men's athletic team they're probably not going to win...

I can't explain what is going on when Oshkosh teams have as much talent (or in some sports, more) and don't even come close to the success as Whitewater. Grr.

Maybe that explains why we finished 4th in both the Men's and Women's athletic WIAC scores and 5th overall.

Wait... 4th + 4th = 5th?


badgerwarhawk

It isn't that difficult to figure out how 4th + 4th = 5th, Downtown.

Here's how it works.  In men's sports they score 9 sports but use on the top 5 for each school because not all schools have programs in all 9 sports.  In women's sports they score 10 sports and use 7 for the same reason. 

4th + 4th = 5th because the LaCrosse men (3rd) outscored your men (4th) by 3.5 points and your women (4th) only outscored LaCrosse (5th) by .5 point.  Consequently when you add the two, LaCrosse moves ahead of you in the overall standings by 3 points.   

I can see why you slipped to only a regional winner in your senior year.  :D  ;) ;)  j/k


"Just think twice is my only advice."

Bronko7

Nice to see a little Warhawk, Titan banter. I believe Oshkosh certainly could have won that regional. Whitewater was strong though, it would have taken a lot of offense to compete with them. Oshkosh will be the team to beat next year! Returning everyone, but Hendricks. That is a good start to any season. Also they get Fadness back behind the plate which certainly won't hurt defensively or on the offense side.

badgerwarhawk

I doubt, hitting .167, that they could have.   Had they hit like they did during the regular season it might have been a different story.  But they didn't and it killed them.   The pitching was good enough to win if it had had some support.

"Just think twice is my only advice."

cubs

Quote from: Mr. Downtown on June 04, 2008, 10:18:12 AM
I'm just wondering if people really thought Oshkosh could win the regional?

Cause last time I checked, on how the last 3 years have went, if its Play-Off time and its a UW-Oshkosh Men's athletic team they're probably not going to win...

I can't explain what is going on when Oshkosh teams have as much talent (or in some sports, more) and don't even come close to the success as Whitewater. Grr.
Name a sport where Oshkosh has had more talent than a fellow WIAC team....  They had the least amount of pitching of the top three teams in the WIAC this season, yet were still in the race for a WIAC Title up until the last week of the season.

It gets REALLY annoying listening to you continually cry about UWO's lack of post-season success.  If you don't like it, than stop watching!!!
2008-09 and 2012-13 WIAC Fantasy League Champion

2008-09 WIAC Pick'Em Tri-Champion