MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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veterancciwfan

Carroll back is good for football as scheduling 3 nonconf. games is not that easy. I think Carroll has lacrosse, not sure. It's good academically. Basketball will not follow the previous Friday at Carroll, Sat. at Carthage format that existed. I imagine that IWU and Millikin will play Saturday road games in Waukesha and Kenosha and vice versa. Making the conf. tournament will be tougher. I really enjoyed the video for the 5'7" NPU recruit. Looks like an exciting player. Hey, maybe he will have a growth spurt like Dylan Overstreet did after he arrived at IWU.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: veterancciwfan on April 24, 2014, 09:57:11 PM
Carroll back is good for football as scheduling 3 nonconf. games is not that easy. I think Carroll has lacrosse, not sure.

Scheduling football has gotten easier now that the league is on track to basically take it out of the hands of the individual coaches and put it into their collective trust by scheduling league-to-league challenges. The first one (CCIW vs. MIAA) takes place starting next fall, and will soon be followed by a CCIW vs. IIAC challenge as well. So it's not as though adding Carroll is going to make things easier for football scheduling purposes. In fact, it might make it more difficult.

As for lacrosse, yes, Carroll has both men's and women's lacrosse -- which brings the CCIW that much closer to adopting both as league-sponsored sports.

Quote from: veterancciwfan on April 24, 2014, 09:57:11 PMIt's good academically. Basketball will not follow the previous Friday at Carroll, Sat. at Carthage format that existed. I imagine that IWU and Millikin will play Saturday road games in Waukesha and Kenosha and vice versa.

Is that for certain? Are you getting that straight from the horse's (i.e., Dennis Bridges's) mouth?

Quote from: veterancciwfan on April 24, 2014, 09:57:11 PMMaking the conf. tournament will be tougher.

The arrival of Carroll might be the perfect opportunity to get the league's braintrust to revisit the tournament idea long advocated by regulars here: Expand it, or get rid of it.

I was amused by the part in the video clip from Wisconsin Today in which the Carroll AD said that the CCIW's Chicagoland schools might regret adding Carroll to the league, because the school now intends to start recruiting in Cook and the collar counties. Hey, bring it on, dude! I don't think anyone's shaking in their shoes at the thought of a private school in suburban Milwaukee siphoning off all of the good local talent now that it has the CCIW logo emblazoned on the wall of Van Male Field House.

Quote from: veterancciwfan on April 24, 2014, 09:57:11 PMI really enjoyed the video for the 5'7" NPU recruit. Looks like an exciting player. Hey, maybe he will have a growth spurt like Dylan Overstreet did after he arrived at IWU.

Overstreet, shmoverstreet. I'm holding out for a Michael Harper growth spurt. ;)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Titan Q

Article from the Pantagraph about the addition of Carroll...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/carroll-to-rejoin-cciw-in/article_8ca52824-2ec2-54ef-9f3d-4f1a3f167219.html

I had heard a couple months ago that Carroll and St. Norbert were joining the CCIW.  With Carroll now in, I'd expect that 10th team mentioned in the article to be SNC.

From what I've heard, this is mostly about getting a Pool A bid for lacrosse.

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: Titan Q on April 25, 2014, 07:56:02 PM
Article from the Pantagraph about the addition of Carroll...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/carroll-to-rejoin-cciw-in/article_8ca52824-2ec2-54ef-9f3d-4f1a3f167219.html

I had heard a couple months ago that Carroll and St. Norbert were joining the CCIW.  With Carroll now in, I'd expect that 10th team mentioned in the article to be SNC.

From what I've heard, this is mostly about getting a Pool A bid for lacrosse.

Does anyone know: IF the CCIW does add a tenth team, would they plan to the retain the full round-robin in football?  Having anything less is potentially unfair, and leaves the possibility of two teams tying at 8-0.  On the other hand, I would hate to see going down to just one non-con game a year - everyone's SOS would be stuck real close to .500, and you never see new competition (especially if they retain the CCIW-MIAA challenge).

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Titan Q on April 25, 2014, 07:56:02 PM
Article from the Pantagraph about the addition of Carroll...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/carroll-to-rejoin-cciw-in/article_8ca52824-2ec2-54ef-9f3d-4f1a3f167219.html

I had heard a couple months ago that Carroll and St. Norbert were joining the CCIW.  With Carroll now in, I'd expect that 10th team mentioned in the article to be SNC.

From what I've heard, this is mostly about getting a Pool A bid for lacrosse.

My sources tell me that the CCIW presidents are not that close to adding a tenth school. And St. Norbert is a problematic candidate, inasmuch as it significantly expands the league's geographic footprint. It's three and a half hours from NPU and Elmhurst to DePere, WI (if the traffic is good), 3 3/4 from Wheaton, an even four hours from NCC, and the three downstate schools are five (Augustana), five and a half (Illinois Wesleyan), and six and a quarter hours (Millikin) from SNC. That's a lot of time spent on buses rather than in classrooms or the library.

St. Norbert's a good candidate in some ways, but if it was a good enough candidate, it likely would've gone in alongside Carroll.

And from what I've heard, adding Carroll is about more than simply getting Pool A bids for men's and women's lacrosse, although they enter into it.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

bopol

Carroll...putting a little more "W" in the CCIW.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 25, 2014, 08:36:31 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on April 25, 2014, 07:56:02 PM
Article from the Pantagraph about the addition of Carroll...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/carroll-to-rejoin-cciw-in/article_8ca52824-2ec2-54ef-9f3d-4f1a3f167219.html

I had heard a couple months ago that Carroll and St. Norbert were joining the CCIW.  With Carroll now in, I'd expect that 10th team mentioned in the article to be SNC.

From what I've heard, this is mostly about getting a Pool A bid for lacrosse.

Does anyone know: IF the CCIW does add a tenth team, would they plan to the retain the full round-robin in football?  Having anything less is potentially unfair, and leaves the possibility of two teams tying at 8-0.  On the other hand, I would hate to see going down to just one non-con game a year - everyone's SOS would be stuck real close to .500, and you never see new competition (especially if they retain the CCIW-MIAA challenge).

I can't possibly imagine the CCIW abandoning a full round-robin, and the scheduling equity that it guarantees for everybody in the league, for something as ephemeral as strength of schedule.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

NCF

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 24, 2014, 09:18:31 PM
Carroll looks like they will be much more competitive than they were the first go-round.  Still, I've long thought that 8 teams was the perfect conference size.  So I have mixed feelings about this.
completely agree with the eight team conference size. No need to add a team at this point.
CCIW FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
CCIW  MEN"S INDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: TOTAL DOMINATION SINCE 2001.
CCIW MEN'S OUTDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: 35
NATIONAL CHAMPIONS: INDOOR TRACK-'89,'10,'11,'12/OUTDOOR TRACK: '89,'94,'98,'00,'10,'11
2013 OAC post season pick-em tri-champion
2015 CCIW Pick-em co-champion

AndOne

Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 25, 2014, 09:21:11 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on April 25, 2014, 07:56:02 PM
Article from the Pantagraph about the addition of Carroll...

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/carroll-to-rejoin-cciw-in/article_8ca52824-2ec2-54ef-9f3d-4f1a3f167219.html

I had heard a couple months ago that Carroll and St. Norbert were joining the CCIW.  With Carroll now in, I'd expect that 10th team mentioned in the article to be SNC.

From what I've heard, this is mostly about getting a Pool A bid for lacrosse.

My sources tell me that the CCIW presidents are not that close to adding a tenth school. And St. Norbert is a problematic candidate, inasmuch as it significantly expands the league's geographic footprint. It's three and a half hours from NPU and Elmhurst to DePere, WI (if the traffic is good), 3 3/4 from Wheaton, an even four hours from NCC, and the three downstate schools are five (Augustana), five and a half (Illinois Wesleyan), and six and a quarter hours (Millikin) from SNC. That's a lot of time spent on buses rather than in classrooms or the library.

St. Norbert's a good candidate in some ways, but if it was a good enough candidate, it likely would've gone in alongside Carroll.

And from what I've heard, adding Carroll is about more than simply getting Pool A bids for men's and women's lacrosse, although they enter into it.

Rather than distance from the CCIW schools, my sources tell me that St. Norbert has another significant obstacle.
Take a look at the following chart:

School, location, city population, nickname, year founded, religious affiliation, enrollment, year joined the CCIW.

Augustana College   Rock Island, Illinois
(39,684)   Vikings   1860   Private/Lutheran (ELCA)   2,513   1946

Carthage College   Kenosha, Wisconsin
(99,738)   Red Men   1847   Private/Lutheran (ELCA)   2,374   1946

Elmhurst College   Elmhurst, Illinois
(43,298)   Bluejays   1871   Private/United Church of Christ   2,748   1946

Illinois Wesleyan University   Bloomington, Illinois
(74,975)   Titans   1850   Private/Methodist   2,113   1946

Millikin University   Decatur, Illinois
(81,500)   Big Blue   1901   Private/Presbyterian   2,118   1946

North Central College   Naperville, Illinois
(144,560)   Cardinals   1861   Private/Methodist   2,167   1946

North Park University   Chicago, Illinois
(2,853,114)   Vikings   1891   Private/Evangelical Covenant   1,814   1962

Wheaton College   Wheaton, Illinois
(55,676)   Thunder   1860   Private/Evangelical Protestant   2,282   1946

What is missing is the word "Catholic" in the Religious Affiliation column. Until recently, several of the conference schools had a problem with a Catholic institution being admitted to the otherwise Protestant conference. My sources advise this attitude, entertained not totally, but in large part at the presidential level of the member institutions, may have softened recently due to a change in administration at many of the schools. However, while the number of schools adamantly opposed mainly on religious grounds may have decreased over the last couple or few years, there is still a rather forceful element not entirely comfortable with the admission of a member institution that is Catholic in its religious orientation.

Believe what you want. When I first heard this theory, I didn't put much stock in it at all. However, those with whom I spoke, at more than one school, are in the know when it comes to goings on around the conference, particularly within the athletic realm of things. I'm merely reporting what I've heard. Form your own opinion.  :-\   ;) 


Gregory Sager

What administrators at more than one CCIW school have told me is that the reason why Catholic affiliation is problematic for a potential CCIW school is because the Chicagoland area not only has a heavy Catholic population but also two thriving and very strong high-school athletic conferences' worth of Catholic schools, the Chicago Catholic League and the East Suburban Catholic Conference.

It's a significant obstacle for Benedictine's potential admission to the CCIW; with BU's outstanding sports facilities and ideal location in the heart of CCIW recruiting territory, the Bennies could potentially parlay their Catholic affiliation into becoming the dominant CCIW athletic school. (The other obstacle for BU is that North Central just doesn't want its' neighbor down the street to join us, no way, no how.) This is less relevant to the other Catholic-affiliated D3 school in Chicagoland, Dominican University; as far as I know, Dominican has never expressed any interest in CCIW membership. Nor would it be a viable candidate, since it doesn't sponsor football and (to the best of my knowledge) is unlikely to in the near future.

The Catholic thing might be an issue for admitting St. Norbert into the CCIW, but I'm not sure if it's that much of an issue. DePere, Wisconsin is a long ways away, and SNC hasn't traditionally done heavy athletic recruiting in Cook and the collar counties. There's usually a sprinkling of Chicagolanders on Green Knights rosters, but they're a pretty small minority. Would joining the CCIW give SNC enough of an inroad into Chicagoland to start recruiting ESCC and CCL student-athletes in earnest? Maybe, but it's questionable.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

kate

Couldn't help checking out these last few posts, and God help us (no pun intended), if we start to segregate colleges & universities by religion for athletic leagues.  In my opinion, college is the time to broaden your experiences (all kinds) rather than stifle them.  No "like minded".  I think the only factors that should determine D3 leagues are enrollment of the school and miles separating said schools.  Just how I've always felt about this.

sac


NCF

Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 26, 2014, 06:24:11 PM
What administrators at more than one CCIW school have told me is that the reason why Catholic affiliation is problematic for a potential CCIW school is because the Chicagoland area not only has a heavy Catholic population but also two thriving and very strong high-school athletic conferences' worth of Catholic schools, the Chicago Catholic League and the East Suburban Catholic Conference.

It's a significant obstacle for Benedictine's potential admission to the CCIW; with BU's outstanding sports facilities and ideal location in the heart of CCIW recruiting territory, the Bennies could potentially parlay their Catholic affiliation into becoming the dominant CCIW athletic school. (The other obstacle for BU is that North Central just doesn't want its' neighbor down the street to join us, no way, no how.) This is less relevant to the other Catholic-affiliated D3 school in Chicagoland, Dominican University; as far as I know, Dominican has never expressed any interest in CCIW membership. Nor would it be a viable candidate, since it doesn't sponsor football and (to the best of my knowledge) is unlikely to in the near future.

The Catholic thing might be an issue for admitting St. Norbert into the CCIW, but I'm not sure if it's that much of an issue. DePere, Wisconsin is a long ways away, and SNC hasn't traditionally done heavy athletic recruiting in Cook and the collar counties. There's usually a sprinkling of Chicagolanders on Green Knights rosters, but they're a pretty small minority. Would joining the CCIW give SNC enough of an inroad into Chicagoland to start recruiting ESCC and CCL student-athletes in earnest? Maybe, but it's questionable.
Not every kid who attends  a Catholic school is Catholic. Some want to play in the CCL Blue because of the reputation. Having a Catholic school in the CCIW would not hurt the other schools as good players want a good program, period.
CCIW FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
CCIW  MEN"S INDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: TOTAL DOMINATION SINCE 2001.
CCIW MEN'S OUTDOOR TRACK CHAMPIONS: 35
NATIONAL CHAMPIONS: INDOOR TRACK-'89,'10,'11,'12/OUTDOOR TRACK: '89,'94,'98,'00,'10,'11
2013 OAC post season pick-em tri-champion
2015 CCIW Pick-em co-champion

bopol

Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 26, 2014, 06:24:11 PM
What administrators at more than one CCIW school have told me is that the reason why Catholic affiliation is problematic for a potential CCIW school is because the Chicagoland area not only has a heavy Catholic population but also two thriving and very strong high-school athletic conferences' worth of Catholic schools, the Chicago Catholic League and the East Suburban Catholic Conference.


This is seriously the dumbest thing I have read on the internet in a few days. 

The problem, as we all know, is that the Catholic men and women at this institutions would force the fine Protestants at the other CCIW institutions to fall in love with them and then they would marry (in the Catholic Church, of course) and all their children would be raised Catholic, bringing the dissenting Protestants back to the One True Church in a few generations.

That's why we can't have a Catholic college in the CCIW.

Titan Q

6-7 F Gordon Behr from Wheaton Academy committed to D2 Hillsdale.  (His name came up here a while back as a potential Wheaton recruit.)