MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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Augie15

Augie was led by Ebel and Benning with 18 a piece and Orange and Wofford with 17 a piece. Rhode finished with 34 for Elmhurst

kiko

Elsewhere:

Carthage 79, Carroll 66 at the Cheddar derby matchup in Kenosha

Wheaton 68, Millikin 62 at the Griz, with Aston Francis tallying 33 and 10 boards

duckfan41

Wheaton wins 68-62 down in Decatur. Wasn't able to watch, but was able to see the box at the half and boy was Francis on fire.

Francis: 33 points and 10 rebounds
Anthony: 12 points
Adom: 9 points and 6 rebounds (4 offensive)
Eichelberger: 7 points and 6 rebounds

For the Big Blue...
Both Fishers with 12
Cunningham: 10 points and 11 rebounds
Henry: 8 points and 8 rebounds

The first half was all Wheaton, the second half seemed to be a whole lot more of a grind with both teams scoring less than 30 points after a high scoring first half. Solid conference win on the road, and now it's time to gear up for another one at Elmhurst on Saturday.

GoPerry

Quote from: Augie15 on January 09, 2019, 09:59:06 PM
Final in Elmhurst. Augie 92 Elmhurst 79

With the Thunder in Decatur, I opted for the considerably shorter drive to Faganel.  Augie is a very impressive team with a whole bunch of weapons.  If it wasn't Ebel it was Benning.  Not Benning then Orange or Wofford or Simon off the bench.  Baines stayed with the zone pretty much the whole game and the Vikings shredded it shooting 58% from the field, 52% (13-25) from three.  I give the 'Jays a lot of credit for hanging in however, almost coming back from a 21 pt deficit.  A wide open 3 could've brought them to within 5 with about 2:30 left, but it didn't go down and that was it.  Rhode was terrific leading all scorers with 34 and all rebounders with 7.  I thought Jeremy Ireland looked very uncomfortable against the big Viking front line of Martin, Benning and Ferguson.

A pretty big crowd tonight, half of which were Augie fans.  The entire scorers table side was dressed in blue/gold.

AndOne

#49594
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2019, 06:37:11 AM

I've seen good portions of three NCC games and lesser portions of several others.  I'm just not sure they've shown the consistency to be ranked right now.  I have voted for them this year and I think they've got the talent to be there - results matter going forward.

As for IWU, I actually moved them up in my last ballot.  I thought they looked better losing to Whitman and UWSP than they did in their other losses (and most of their wins, for that matter).  I think that team is good - they were playing well early and seemed to have regained form over the break.  I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt right now.

It's still a crap shoot until conference plays evens things out, anyway.  You could have four CCIW schools in your ballot easily or it could be four NESCAC schools - or some combination of both or many fewer.

Well, I certainly hope you saw a good portion of last night's NCC @ IWU game. I hope some of the other Top 25 voters did too. If not, IWU has it on demand. You all can watch the whole thing, not just a good portion. IWU doesn't lose a whole lot of games at the Shirk Center. However, NCC has now handed them 4 of their last 12 home losses, with the 4 now occurring in the last 4 consecutive years. Pretty long odds against any team doing that.

As far as Top 25 voting, last week the #10, 15, 16, 18, 24, and 25 teams all lost. Last night #8, 9, 10, 13, and 19 lost. Who are all these supposedly top teams? How are they getting all those votes. And who is voting for them?

NCC had already beat Wheaton who got votes. Now they've beaten IWU who also received votes in the current poll. And this is with 2 senior starters recently lost for the year. Yet NCC can't even make the OTV? And yes, I know last night's game was after the current poll was voted.
But, BEFORE the current poll;
* Massey had NCC at #28
* Poster Fantastic50 had them 5th in the Region
* John Gleich had them 4 Regionally
* Even a couple of IWU fans who are prolific CCIW posters were surprised the Cardinals didn't receive any votes.
What are these people seeing that voters aren't? Maybe last night will open some eyes. As I said, its on demand. Take a look.  :)

iwu70

AO, I'm one of the posters who thought NCC should be getting some support for the top 25.  I assume they will now.

IWU just can't finish games . . . very sad, troubling.  Up by 13 in the first half, up 8 with 2 minutes to go and you still go down.  No joy in Titanland for sure.

Something not right when Grant Wolfe gets 6 rebounds and Alex O'Neil gets 2, scores 2 points against a vertically-challenged, relatively small NCC line-up.  Again, poor perimeter D against the trey, with NCC making 14. 

Wolfe, Bonnett, Wallen and Rose again with pretty good games, but not enough support from the rest of the Titans. . .

At 9-6, 2-4, not much of a resume for conference or for post-season, at this point.  Given the talent, disappointing. 

IWU'70


79jaybird

It's J-Term  (January Term) at Elmhurst so the college is only like 1/3 of the student body.   Augie always draws well because many of their roster's family are in the Chicago burbs and (EC/WC/NC) are all close enough to have them warrant a trip.  Helps that the Vikings are off to another great year,  so IMO not a surprise there was a large contingent of Blue & Gold faithfuls.

Not a bad showing by Elmhurst  Just two teams operating at different levels. But, I do like what I see out of Baines. 
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lmitzel

Quote from: AndOne on January 10, 2019, 03:48:13 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2019, 06:37:11 AM

I've seen good portions of three NCC games and lesser portions of several others.  I'm just not sure they've shown the consistency to be ranked right now.  I have voted for them this year and I think they've got the talent to be there - results matter going forward.

As for IWU, I actually moved them up in my last ballot.  I thought they looked better losing to Whitman and UWSP than they did in their other losses (and most of their wins, for that matter).  I think that team is good - they were playing well early and seemed to have regained form over the break.  I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt right now.

It's still a crap shoot until conference plays evens things out, anyway.  You could have four CCIW schools in your ballot easily or it could be four NESCAC schools - or some combination of both or many fewer.

Well, I certainly hope you saw a good portion of last night's NCC @ IWU game. I hope some of the other Top 25 voters did too. If not, IWU has it on demand. You all can watch the whole thing, not just a good portion. IWU doesn't lose a whole lot of games at the Shirk Center. However, NCC has now handed them 4 of their last 12 home losses, with the 4 now occurring in the last 4 consecutive years. Pretty long odds against any team doing that.

As far as Top 25 voting, last week the #10, 15, 16, 18, 24, and 25 teams all lost. Last night #8, 9, 10, 13, and 19 lost. Who are all these supposedly top teams? How are they getting all those votes. And who is voting for them?

NCC had already beat Wheaton who got votes. Now they've beaten IWU who also received votes in the current poll. And this is with 2 senior starters recently lost for the year. Yet NCC can't even make the OTV? And yes, I know last night's game was after the current poll was voted.
But, BEFORE the current poll;
* Massey had NCC at #28
* Poster Fantastic50 had them 5th in the Region
* John Gleich had them 4 Regionally
* Even a couple of IWU fans who are prolific CCIW posters were surprised the Cardinals didn't receive any votes.
What are these people seeing that voters aren't? Maybe last night will open some eyes. As I said, its on demand. Take a look.  :)

I caught maybe the last minute and a half since the women's game was done ridiculously early (I started with about 2:15 to go down seven and I switched away before seeing that Pollack had hit a three to pull the Cards back within five and came back). I know Q was tweeting about how the Titans had found ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but it was still kind of mind boggling to see how that game ended. I wasn't thrilled with when Pollack took the go-ahead three, but he was open, and, well...

The thing that still really shocked me in real time was on the ensuing Titan possession. Brady Rose had a wide open layup... and just missed it.
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voxelmhurst

I can't add much that hasn't been said about Augustana/Elmhurst. As much as I would have loved to see an upset (Elmhurst did get Grey to tear his jacket off about 10 minutes in), it wasn't to be. Augustana playing like a Top 3 team in the nation. They shot over 75% in the first half, including 9-12 from downtown. I'm glad Elmhurst at least fought back and got a 21 point deficit down to 6 in the second half, and made it a game again. Two teams operating at different levels, as Jaybird said.

Gregory Sager

#49599
I watched the archived NCC @ IWU game last night after coming home from the crackerbox, because I don't seem to be capable of taking a night off from CCIW men's basketball even when my team isn't playing. ;) It was an interesting game to watch.

Vis-a-vis Mark's (AndOne's) complaints:

Quote from: AndOne on January 10, 2019, 03:48:13 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 08, 2019, 06:37:11 AM

I've seen good portions of three NCC games and lesser portions of several others.  I'm just not sure they've shown the consistency to be ranked right now.  I have voted for them this year and I think they've got the talent to be there - results matter going forward.

As for IWU, I actually moved them up in my last ballot.  I thought they looked better losing to Whitman and UWSP than they did in their other losses (and most of their wins, for that matter).  I think that team is good - they were playing well early and seemed to have regained form over the break.  I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt right now.

It's still a crap shoot until conference plays evens things out, anyway.  You could have four CCIW schools in your ballot easily or it could be four NESCAC schools - or some combination of both or many fewer.

Well, I certainly hope you saw a good portion of last night's NCC @ IWU game. I hope some of the other Top 25 voters did too. If not, IWU has it on demand. You all can watch the whole thing, not just a good portion. IWU doesn't lose a whole lot of games at the Shirk Center. However, NCC has now handed them 4 of their last 12 home losses, with the 4 now occurring in the last 4 consecutive years. Pretty long odds against any team doing that.

As far as Top 25 voting, last week the #10, 15, 16, 18, 24, and 25 teams all lost. Last night #8, 9, 10, 13, and 19 lost. Who are all these supposedly top teams? How are they getting all those votes. And who is voting for them?

NCC had already beat Wheaton who got votes. Now they've beaten IWU who also received votes in the current poll. And this is with 2 senior starters recently lost for the year. Yet NCC can't even make the OTV? And yes, I know last night's game was after the current poll was voted.
But, BEFORE the current poll;
* Massey had NCC at #28
* Poster Fantastic50 had them 5th in the Region
* John Gleich had them 4 Regionally

No offense to Ken Massey, Drew Pasteur, and John Gleich, but they're hardly expert witnesses in terms of who the d3hoops.com pollsters should or shouldn't be voting for at New Year's Day. As I said a few days ago, Massey ratings are only now reaching the point where each team's data has accumulated sufficiently for the ratings to really mean anything, and Drew and John are merely speculating about how regional rankings would shake out at this point, which is a completely different issue than which teams should be in the Top 25 poll and which ones shouldn't.

The fact of the matter is that the Cardinals really hadn't put together much of a résumé prior to last night. As I said, the only impressive win that the Cards had was over Wheaton on the road. Well, that changed last night. Illinois Wesleyan does not have a good record, but the Titans still enjoy some residual respect from the pollsters because they've lost so narrowly to so many good teams. The Cards beat them in their own house, so NCC should get to enjoy the largesse allotted to IWU to this point by the pollsters. Of course, if thoroughly ordinary Millikin beats the Titans in the Griz on Saturday, all bets are off as to whether there will be any fund of goodwill left for IWU from the pollsters for the Cardinals to cash in in next week's poll.

Quote from: AndOne on January 10, 2019, 03:48:13 AM* Even a couple of IWU fans who are prolific CCIW posters were surprised the Cardinals didn't receive any votes.
What are these people seeing that voters aren't? Maybe last night will open some eyes. As I said, its on demand. Take a look.  :)

The other issue that I talked about regarding the Cards and their lack of love from Pat's Top 25 braintrust is that the injuries to two of NCC's starters left the pollsters wondering if and how Todd Raridon would be able to overcome those personnel losses. Remember, the Top 25 poll is a graded estimate of the relative strength of the country's top teams. In spite of that 12-3 record, there were legitimate concerns on the part of the pollsters regarding NCC's ability to cover for the losses of Chang and Bronec; even though they were role players, they were experienced role players for a team that didn't use a deep rotation to begin with.

Well, some of those pollster's questions are now being answered. Tommy Koth, who has heretofore not been an offensive force throughout his career, is averaging 16.3 ppg in the three games NCC has played since we last heard "Auld Lang Syne", and he's shooting really well. Matt Cappelletti's doing enough at the offensive end to remind people that he's capable of a breakout night every time that he takes the floor, and the law firm of Clausel, Pollack, and Jones seems to have at least one of them step up on any given night.

More to the point, if Aston Francis wasn't looming over the entire league right now, Connor Raridon would be a legitimate contender for MOP. That guy does more things to help his team win than any player in the league who doesn't hail from Tyler, TX. His ability to know where the double teams thrown at him were coming from, and to accordingly distribute the ball to the teammate left open, was one of the two key elements in North Central's victory last night (Tommy Koth's shooting being the other). Raridon not only had thirteen assists -- it's been well over a decade since anyone's had more than thirteen assists in a CCIW game, and that period includes Stevie D.'s entire career at Carthage, and, of the four or five instances in which someone has reached a baker's dozen worth of dimes in a league game, Raridon now has two of them -- he had an astonishing 13:2 a:to ratio. Plus, he seemingly guarded just about every Titan except Grant Wolfe or Brady Rose at one point or another, and did an effective job no matter to whom he was assigned. Every pollster needs to take notice of Connor Raridon and the things that he can do to help his team win on any given night.

I can't speak for Ryan, Pat, or D-Mac, but to me it's pretty obvious that North Central is affirmatively answering those questions and, at least for the next poll, should be considered a bottom-half-of-the-Top-25 team on everybody's ballots.

Quote from: iwu70 on January 10, 2019, 04:00:15 AMSomething not right when Grant Wolfe gets 6 rebounds and Alex O'Neil gets 2, scores 2 points against a vertically-challenged, relatively small NCC line-up.

First of all, North Central doesn't have a "vertically-challenged, relatively small" lineup, Mark. In terms of last night's Cardinals starters, Connor Raridon is 6'6, Matt Cappelletti is 6'5, Blaise Meredith is 6'4, Tommy Koth is 6'3, and Alex Jones is 6'0. That is not a small quintet. The two reserves who saw almost the entire allotment of NCC's minutes off of the bench last night were Will Clausel, who is 6'4, and Mike Pollack, who is 6'3. That's not a small septet, either. If anything, it's somewhat tall for a D3 team. Even IWU PBP man Eric Stock noted last night that, aside from the position of center, NCC is tall.

Second, Alex O'Neill only saw twelve minutes of action last night. Add to that the fact that, as a center, he's almost entirely dependent upon guards feeding him in the low post in terms of getting touches, and it's hard to blame him for only scoring two points. IWU's guards don't seem to be too interested in post entry passes, or at least not nearly enough to use their bigs effectively. But this all takes place against the backdrop of the rest of the CCIW campaign, in which O'Neill came into last night's game averaging less than half a game's worth of minutes in IWU's five previous league contests. He got plenty of time against other teams with big centers (Carroll and Augustana, for example), not so much against everybody else. Ron Rose notes that having O'Neill means that he gets a mismatch in his favor in the low post on offense most nights, because most teams don't have true centers anymore -- certainly not 6'9 behemoths like O'Neill. But the flip side of that coin is that O'Neill has to guard a smaller, quicker player at the other end of the floor, so the mismatch goes the opposite way defensively. Rose insists that his bigs are quick enough to cover smaller players, even the ones that like to spend time on the perimeter, but they don't seem to be earning the confidence he expresses in them. In fact, Rose really isn't backing up his statement in terms of his rotations; he's put small (by IWU's standards) lineups on the floor an awful lot this season. IWU's big men -- O'Neill, Bair, Baker, and Leritz -- accounted for only 52 out of 80 minutes allotted to the C and PF positions last night. He basically used swingman Doug Wallen as his power forward for a good chunk of the game.

Bottom line, you can't score when you don't get touches. And you can't get touches when you're not in the game. And you won't stay in the game if you can't guard anybody because you lack the mobility to do so.

Quote from: iwu70 on January 10, 2019, 04:00:15 AMAgain, poor perimeter D against the trey, with NCC making 14.

Poor perimeter D was not the problem for IWU last night. The problem was that: a) Tommy Koth was on fire from beyond the arc last night, even when he had hands in his face; and b) Connor Raridon victimized seemingly every double team that was thrown at him by Ron Rose.

Quote from: lmitzel on January 10, 2019, 11:45:56 AM
I caught maybe the last minute and a half since the women's game was done ridiculously early (I started with about 2:15 to go down seven and I switched away before seeing that Pollack had hit a three to pull the Cards back within five and came back). I know Q was tweeting about how the Titans had found ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but it was still kind of mind boggling to see how that game ended. I wasn't thrilled with when Pollack took the go-ahead three, but he was open, and, well...

The thing that still really shocked me in real time was on the ensuing Titan possession. Brady Rose had a wide open layup... and just missed it.

While it's true that the last two minutes of their games have been absolutely toxic for the Titans this season with regard to how they've performed, focusing solely on that gives short shrift to North Central's really superlative effort in that last two minutes last night. Explaining the ending of last night's game at Shirk is a two-way street.

As for Rose's layup attempt, I think that the shot was actually tougher than it may have seemed. He was coming in at an angle that wasn't aimed at the rim, he was moving at full speed, and he didn't have time to adjust his body. That's frequently a recipe for a oblique shot that'll go too hard off the glass, and that's exactly what happened.

What shocked me was that four seconds later, after Meredith's two FTs, Rose missed his first free throw and made the second, when it should've been the other way around.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

Quote from: 79jaybird on January 10, 2019, 10:23:16 AM
It's J-Term  (January Term) at Elmhurst so the college is only like 1/3 of the student body.   Augie always draws well because many of their roster's family are in the Chicago burbs and (EC/WC/NC) are all close enough to have them warrant a trip.  Helps that the Vikings are off to another great year,  so IMO not a surprise there was a large contingent of Blue & Gold faithfuls.

Augustana is traveling really well this year. Their turnout in the crackerbox dwarfed that of IWU, which typically brings the most opposing fans into NPU's gym.

Quote from: 79jaybird on January 10, 2019, 10:23:16 AMNot a bad showing by Elmhurst  Just two teams operating at different levels. But, I do like what I see out of Baines.

There's a lot to like there. Elmhurst isn't quite a Top 25 caliber team, but the 'jays are clearly exceeding everybody's expectations for them. I think that EC has a very good shot at hosting a first-round CCIW playoff game this season.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

GoPerry

Quote from: voxelmhurst on January 10, 2019, 12:19:51 PM
I can't add much that hasn't been said about Augustana/Elmhurst. As much as I would have loved to see an upset (Elmhurst did get Grey to tear his jacket off about 10 minutes in), it wasn't to be. Augustana playing like a Top 3 team in the nation. They shot over 75% in the first half, including 9-12 from downtown. I'm glad Elmhurst at least fought back and got a 21 point deficit down to 6 in the second half, and made it a game again. Two teams operating at different levels, as Jaybird said.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2019, 12:59:31 PM

There's a lot to like there. Elmhurst isn't quite a Top 25 caliber team, but the 'jays are clearly exceeding everybody's expectations for them. I think that EC has a very good shot at hosting a first-round CCIW playoff game this season.

The Jays stuck with them for some long stretches, but over 40 mins they just couldn't sustain it.  Another reinforced thought for me was that Wheaton really has a tough one this Saturday.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: GoPerry on January 10, 2019, 02:15:00 PMAnother reinforced thought for me was that Wheaton really has a tough one this Saturday.

It'll clearly be the CCIW's marquee game of the night on Saturday.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

voxelmhurst

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2019, 02:22:45 PM
Quote from: GoPerry on January 10, 2019, 02:15:00 PMAnother reinforced thought for me was that Wheaton really has a tough one this Saturday.

It'll clearly be the CCIW's marquee game of the night on Saturday.

Coincidentally, the game will actually be played in the evening as Elmhurst hosts the Al Hanke wrestling invitational earlier that day. 7:30 scheduled tip - now a rarity for Elmhurst after they moved Saturday women's and men's home games to 2pm and 4pm tip-offs a few years back),

Glad this one gets flexed into primetime. 

AndOne

#49604
Quote from: iwu70 on January 10, 2019, 04:00:15 AM
AO, I'm one of the posters who thought NCC should be getting some support for the top 25.  I assume they will now.

IWU just can't finish games . . . very sad, troubling.  Up by 13 in the first half, up 8 with 2 minutes to go and you still go down.  No joy in Titanland for sure.

Something not right when Grant Wolfe gets 6 rebounds and Alex O'Neil gets 2, scores 2 points against a vertically-challenged, relatively small NCC line-up.  Again, poor perimeter D against the trey, with NCC making 14. 

Wolfe, Bonnett, Wallen and Rose again with pretty good games, but not enough support from the rest of the Titans. . .

At 9-6, 2-4, not much of a resume for conference or for post-season, at this point.  Given the talent, disappointing. 

IWU'70

Yes, I know 70, and we appreciate your support.  ;D

I also agree with your comments about 6'9" Alex O'Neill. Greg Sager pointed out that he didn't play a whole lot of minutes, and that when he is in the game, the IWU guards don't seem to have much interest in throwing him the ball. That may be true, but that's at least partially O'Neill's fault. Unlike Wallen (at least last night), O'Neill doesn't seem very aggressive or physical. At 6'9" and 245 pounds, it appears he either isn't capable or just isn't much interested in establishing a strong low post position. As to the IWU guards not throwing him the ball, maybe it's becsuse he usually isn't in a position to do much with it when he gets it. Also, and this goes to the aggressiveness factor, how often does he demand the ball, either by positioning or vocally? He appeared rather unsure of himself and timid last night. His approach seemed rather like a tiptoe through the tulips instead of a physical athletic competition. Give him a ukulele and some longer hair and you'd have a good impersonation of Tiny Tim. 6'7" Charlie Bair, a rebounding demon who I have liked since high school, wasn't really any better, while blowing a couple of very close in shots. In fact, IWU didn't really get much of anything from the trio of O'Neill, Bair, and Jason Gregoire. Gregoire seemed confused at times. Like he really wasn't sure of what he was doing on offense, due in large part to NCC's defense or, especially, on defense. He played better defense against the IWU cheerleaders than he did against the Cardinals, and fouled out after only 16 minutes of action, during much of which he was more helpful to the Cardinals than the home team.

As far as NCC getting poll votes, I'm certainly not advocating any upper tier type positioning. However, considering what they've accomplished, especially lately, despite the season ending loss of two senior starters, it does seem something in the range of 18-22 shouldn't be a pipe dream. Also, as I believe Ryan Scott has indicated, the voters like Ws and NCC has 13 of them. And I'm the first one to say yes, many of those Ws have come against less than stellar competition. But if Ws, in and of themselves, are the eye candy pollsters like, then there looks to be enough candy scattered around to equate to some votes.  ;)