Should the Stagg Bowl find a better site or stay in Salem, Va.

Started by K-Mack, November 27, 2006, 01:14:17 AM

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K-Mack

Here's another recurring topic that comes up a lot. Instead of repeating ourselves all over the place, I think it's a good idea to ground this discussion here on Post Patterns. Next time someone suggests a venue, we say here are the reasons people like Salem ... now what'chu and your city got?

Cut-and-pasted from the Daily Dose last week:

QuotePurple Crush Says:
The 20th of November, 2006 at 4:29 pm

Food for thought. Why not play the Stagg Bowl in a warmer climate, larger city, and central part of the country. I think the turnout would be much better. If played in a big city football lovers would show up just to watch the game even if they had no ties to the program.

Quotesabretooth tiger Says:
The 20th of November, 2006 at 4:39 pm

I nominate the Rose Bowl to host the Stagg Bowl. A great warm-up for the Grandaddy of them all, and no so big as to garner a fight from the neighbors. I'd be happy to help in the process!

Live from Pasadena, CA where it is 85 degrees and sunny.

sabretooth

Quotesabretooth tiger Says:
The 20th of November, 2006 at 4:40 pm

Make that "not so big."

QuoteHScoach Says:
The 20th of November, 2006 at 4:41 pm

Salem, VA is the perfect host. Most of D3 is located east of the Mississippi and located in cold weather states. While a December game in Florida might be nice, I'm not sure how many fans it would draw from the participating schools when 90+% of the D3 towns would be too far away to drive?

QuoteBucksFan Says:
The 20th of November, 2006 at 4:48 pm

^^^^^^What he said!

QuoteD3Keith Says:
The 20th of November, 2006 at 7:58 pm

PurpleCrush,
Not to dis, but you're harping on two old-news points here.

(skips 1st not-relevant-here point):

2. "Host the Stagg Bowl in a warmer climate."

Been done. It was in Bradenton, Fla. for years and then Phenix City, Ala.

Problem with that is it's not near any D3 schools. No fan base nearby. And unless you can drive or the school organizes a charter, flying to the Stagg Bowl is a tough thing to do on less than a week's notice.

Salem is a willing host that does a great job with the game for the size it is. I don't think, outside of moving it to Collegeville or Alliance, you'd really guarantee a bigger crowd anywhere else.

I also think you're wrong on the big city point. It seems to me small places where there's nothing else in town garner more interest for D3. CUA gets lost in D.C., Hopkins does in Baltimore. I don't remember huge crowds at Occidental (L.A.) or even this weekend in Pittsburgh (Carnegie Mellon). There's lots to do, but the general populous is interested in the big pro or college teams.

D3 tends to draw people with ties to the school, except in small towns where the team is also a source of local pride and/or the thing to do in town.

From my experience, anyway ...

QuoteD3Keith Says:
The 20th of November, 2006 at 8:03 pm

As far as Salem,
I've never heard anyone say it's broken, so why fix it?

And as far as logical D3 places to move it, like Ohio, New York, N.J., Illinois, Minnesota or Wisconsin ... well, none of those sound like much warmer climates than Salem, Va., even though Salem isn't balmy and 70 degrees in December.

But few are the teams coming to the Stagg Bowl from warm climates, so this is the best replication of a regular game, except for the teams not used to grass.

The thing is, there's a lot of behind-the-scenes work that goes into putting the game on, and Salem has the size, the proper venue and experience, and it does get treated like the big game in town when it's there.

I think they contract the game on 2-year cycles, but I've never even heard rumblings of another place putting in for the Stagg Bowl.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
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and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack

I have recently heard one rumbling of another division possibly wanting to bring its championship to Salem. I was not sworn to secrecy, but that's all I know. Except for the Division, which you out there have a 50-50 shot at guessing anyway.

Good thing there's no D3 competition or I'd be a fool for posting this. Not that it's my "scoop" anyway.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack

More from last week's Dose:

QuoteD3Keith Says:
The 20th of November, 2006 at 8:09 pm

Sorry for the triple post on this:

The history of the game and its sites are here:

http://www.d3football.com/playoffs/

Not sure how believable the attendance numbers that end in 00 are, but I don't think there are many discernable statistics trends. Looks like the Stagg Bowl has always generated a crowd of less than 10,000, and its somewhat tied to how close the teams are to the venue. (Salem is a day-trip from MUC, and it would be wise to keep it that way).

Also interesting to note the two games in Ohio, even though they were during the Augie years, didn't draw all that well.

FWIW.

Quoterms1217 Says:
The 21st of November, 2006 at 2:20 am

(edited here)

Keith:

You are right, Salem is the perfect place for the championship game. We had a great time at the UHMB - Linfield game. It's not so small and not to big and the folks there do put on a very good show.

If it ain't broke why fix it?

QuoteCam08 Says:

The 21st of November, 2006 at 7:08 am

ISN'T THERE A DOME SOMEWHERE IN D3 COUNTRY THAT COULD HOST STAG BOWL.

QuoteSeanGOP Says:
The 21st of November, 2006 at 9:51 am

Keith,

Awesome! Thanks.

I tend to agree with the smaller city to host the Stagg Bowl. We don't want to get lost in all the action of a big city. We want to be THE game in town. The players deserve the attention, and quite frankly, so do the fans.

All I know is that it is a long 45 (or so) weeks after the Stagg Bowl until the next season kicks off.

Quotebeltoncru Says:
The 21st of November, 2006 at 10:58 am

D3Keith,

Are there any thoughts about having the Semi-Finals games at the Stagg Bowl?

Seems like a neutral site would be fair to match-up the final 4 teams. With all the money the NCAA saves on matching up the ASC teams in the first round (complaint) - they should be able to afford the possilby 2 extra flights.

Quotetje Says:
The 21st of November, 2006 at 10:59 am

Cam08: I have been to two Stagg Bowls in 2000 and 2003. Everything about the hosting was done well. There is little to complain about with Salem except the weather. It was terrible both times I went. There are domes which could be used and where the game could still be the center of attraction. However, from a previous post of mine, suggestions along these lines are not well accepted here. I think people like the way things run at Salem and it is more convenient that other places which may have a dome.

QuoteD3Keith Says:
The 23rd of November, 2006 at 12:52 am

To the questions asked of me earlier:

I think the Stagg Bowl would play fine in another city similar to the size of Salem that's willing to give it the attention and put in the work it needs to make it run smoothly.

I agree with Cam08 about domes though. I like the purity of the Stagg Bowl, being outdoors and on grass.

I don't mean to crush anyone suggesting a change of venue, I just think it can be a risky proposition to switch to someone that doesn't know what they're doing necessarily, when Salem hosts championships for football, basketball, baseball, volleyball ... they know how to get it done.

I don't have any problem with how the games go in Salem now, so I'm not a big advocate for change. I suppose you could find a more interesting place to host, but the lack of distractions (aside from the planned stuff) is good for the teams.

It plays well in town, it's a good distance from a lot of D3 but not impossible to reach. I think that's big for fans. Pat always says Columbus, Ohio is the geographical center of D3, I don't think he means mathematically, just that Columbus is a decent trip from just about everywhere. May be the home of the D3 empire someday 

Some people think the Stagg Bowl should find a home in Ohio. I'm sure as soon as it does, it'll be another bunch of Linfield-UMHB type of games 

Quoterepete Says:
The 23rd of November, 2006 at 6:58 pm

I've been to Staggs in Phenix City (once) and Salem (twice) and can't say enough about the folks in Va. Great hosts and they make both teams and their fans feel special even if the rest of the country is watching "Battle of the NFL All-Stars Wives."

There's a dedication to doing it well there, plenty of intangibles, and I think — as keith noted — there's a bit of risk in a move.

Quotekirasdad Says:
The 24th of November, 2006 at 10:24 am

RE: Kieth:
" I like the purity of the Stagg Bowl, being outdoors and on grass. "

Isn't Salem putting down FieldTurf soon?

QuoteMountguy Says:
The 24th of November, 2006 at 2:54 pm

Having been to Salem in 93,97,98 I can say its all first class. The people down there are fantastic. I still remember in 93 it was cold and windy, the folks were very apologetic about the weather. We had to remind them that being from Northeast Ohio we were used to this type of weather. Like the saying goes...If it aint't broke don't mess with it.

Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

runyr

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."  Confucius

ScheckDiesel

I went to the Stagg Bowl last year, and I didn't have a problem with the stadium.  The weather was cold, but I'm from UWW and we play our two final playoff games in freezing weather, so it wasn't a big deal.  The trip was about 20 hours I think, which wasn't horrible.  For the facility itself, I liked the feel of it, with the brick walls and the appropriate seating arrangements with the bleachers on opposite sides of each other.
Overall, I think it's a good spot to watch a championship game. 

Ain't broke, don't fix it!

patcummings

Salem is a fabulous location and I wouldn't be surprised if D2 moves its championship game there as well.  I believe Salem Stadium is adding artificial turf for 2007 which would make it an easy host for two games in two weeks.  A significant amount of work for Carey Harveycutter and his countless staff, but another money maker for the region.

They do a heck of a job year in and year out and I look forward to going back in a few weeks.

K-Mack

Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack

Quote from: patcummings on December 03, 2006, 02:59:00 PM
Salem is a fabulous location and I wouldn't be surprised if D2 moves its championship game there as well. 

I-AA is the one I heard is interested. Makes sense geographically, I guess, the same way it does in D3. A lot of conferences in the East, mid-Atlantic and Midwest and even South that would be a managable drive from Titletown, Va.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
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and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

Llamaguy

Quote from: K-Mack on December 04, 2006, 12:59:24 AM
Quote from: patcummings on December 03, 2006, 02:59:00 PM
Salem is a fabulous location and I wouldn't be surprised if D2 moves its championship game there as well. 

I-AA is the one I heard is interested. Makes sense geographically, I guess, the same way it does in D3. A lot of conferences in the East, mid-Atlantic and Midwest and even South that would be a managable drive from Titletown, Va.

I would question if it is big enough to host the Division 1 subbracket Final. Don't know totals every year but I think there were like 22,000 + in Chattanooga when JMU won it's Nat'l Championship.

Also how would the ESPN deal workout? Traditionally the D1-BCS has a Friday night final with D2 and D3 both on Saturday. Unless they move one to the following weekend, I wonder how they could pull that off in Salem?
"The Dali Llama"

Bridgewater Football 1980,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005 ODAC Champions!

K-Mack

I don't know the details at all, and I don't think anything public has been said or finalized, I think they were just exploratory.

But yeah, the math doesn't work out at 22,000 > 9,000 now does it?

Is there a Roanoke Bowl I don't know about? Or maybe one of Va. Tech's practice fields?
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

frank uible

Since 1997 the DIAA championship game has been held at Chattanooga in a stadium whose capacity is 20,000. During that period for those championship games the attendance has ranged from a low of 12,360 to a high of 20,052. These figures are contained in the Official 2006 NCAA Records Book.

Jonny Utah

Im for putting the game in Miami or Tampa and having the 1-AA (or division formally known as 1-AA), d2 and d3 game at the same site.  Id even consider that an annual trip if you through some clinics in down there. 

Fact is Im not going to Salem unless Ithacas playing, but I would definitly consider Florida.

Llamaguy

Quote from: frank uible on December 04, 2006, 05:07:54 AM
Since 1997 the DIAA championship game has been held at Chattanooga in a stadium whose capacity is 20,000. During that period for those championship games the attendance has ranged from a low of 12,360 to a high of 20,052. These figures are contained in the Official 2006 NCAA Records Book.

Thanks for the followup. I was a little off but the numbers still don't work for Salem. Most if not all D1-sub schools have bigger stadiums than Salem's. If it got moved there it wouldn't stay long just based on capacity.
"The Dali Llama"

Bridgewater Football 1980,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005 ODAC Champions!

Ralph Turner

Quote from: K-Mack on December 04, 2006, 12:57:32 AM
Quote from: runyr on December 03, 2006, 04:06:58 AM
Salem would be better if they built something like this  ::):
http://www.stadiumsofnfl.com/nfc/UniversityofPhoenixStadium.htm

You think they can do that in the 10,000-seat variety?  :)

I have a University of Phoenix campus just up the road.

Where are they going to put that?  Build it over US Hwy 75? (North Central Expressway for you Dallasites)  :D

'gro

Chattanooga has the DI-AA game locked up in 2007 with an option for 2008.  Avg attendance of 15,500 in chattavegas.

Neither Chatt or Salem has a geographic advantage over one another. Teams like Georgia Southern, Delaware, James Madison, and Montana have played in the championship the last few years.

As always gro votes for the AA, II, and III football weekend extravaganza in a 20,000+ seat stadium... in Bradenton florida. One game friday night, double header on saturday, Buccaneers on Sunday... perfect.