Is 32 teams the right size for the playoffs, and will it stay that way?

Started by K-Mack, October 12, 2007, 11:31:26 AM

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DuffMan

So at what point (not considering length of the play-offs) does it become too many teams?  We're looking at roughly 13% of teams making the playoffs right now.  Does that seem like too few or too many?  I think some of the "specialness" of the playoffs is that there's not a lot of players that can say they've been a part of it.  I'd hate to see the pride and mystique diluted.

A tradition unrivaled...
MIAC Champions: 1932, 1935, 1936, 1938, 1953, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1971, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1982, 1985, 1989, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2021, 2022
National Champions: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003

Ralph Turner

Actually the NCAA (D-3) expanded the playoff ratio in almost all sports from 1:7.5 to 1:6.5 (up to bracket limits of 32 and 64 depending on the sport) roughly about 2 years ago.  That was what prompted the expansion of the football brackets from 28 to 32.

In the "Future of Division III" study document and proposed legislation, there have been calls to shorten the season by 10% and possibly eliminate the national playoffs.  Other factors noted in the "Future of D-III" is that the division is growing so big that   the playoff brackets cannot handle the playoff ratio that is desired.  The proponents of the de-emphasized role of athletics are counting on the MIAC to join them in the new division.  In a letter back to the NCAA, the MIAC actually said "Whoa, are you so sure that this is a good thing?"

I have not seen any calls to return or restrict the funding for a playoff ratio to a smaller playoff field.

However, I speak for the consensus of D-3 schools that we will accept a voluntary position by St John's to forgo any post-season play, so as to keep the pride and mystique in the playoff experience.   ;D

DuffMan


A tradition unrivaled...
MIAC Champions: 1932, 1935, 1936, 1938, 1953, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1971, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1982, 1985, 1989, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2021, 2022
National Champions: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003

smedindy

With an expanded D-3 membership comes expanded playoffs. "The good old days" were rather unfair, when a 10-0 team could be excluded from the playoffs by a vindictive opposing coach.

HScoach

Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2007, 06:58:41 PM
However, I speak for the consensus of D-3 schools that we will accept a voluntary position by St John's to forgo any post-season play, so as to keep the pride and mystique in the playoff experience.   ;D

So when does the petition to get Mount Union to join arms with SJU get passed around the nation?
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Teamski

Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2007, 06:58:41 PM


In the "Future of Division III" study document and proposed legislation, there have been calls to shorten the season by 10% and possibly eliminate the national playoffs.  Other factors noted in the "Future of D-III" is that the division is growing so big that   the playoff brackets cannot handle the playoff ratio that is desired.  The proponents of the de-emphasized role of athletics are counting on the MIAC to join them in the new division.  In a letter back to the NCAA, the MIAC actually said "Whoa, are you so sure that this is a good thing?"


That would really suck if they eliminated the playoffs.  You figure that teams aspire to some sort of worthwhile venture in football and to take away the possiblity of a national championship would be counter to everything the sport stands for.  We already have enough complaints about the bowl system for 1A schools.  Imagine if we took those away!

IMHO, the 32 team field is just about the right size for the number of schools.  15 games is what it takes a team to win the DIII national championship, 2 more than a 1A school to win the BCS (or just 1 more for some conferences with championships). 

I guess I'm looking at it from a fan's point of view, but to take away a national championship would be to delegitamize DIII football as a whole.   It might as well be highschool football with state championships....Oh, never mind, there wouldn't be a championship at all.  Just a black void at the end of the season.   >:(

-Ski
Wesley College Football.... A Winning Tradition! A Coach Mike Drass Legacy.

Teamski

Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2007, 06:58:41 PM
  Other factors noted in the "Future of D-III" is that the division is growing so big that  the playoff brackets cannot handle the playoff ratio that is desired.  

What about the creation of a divisional system that allows the movement of teams between divisions, the same sort of system used in the UK?  Instead of basing teams on school size, base them on ability.  For example, the top 3 teams in DIII would move up to DII at the end of the season and vice versa.  You can create 5 divisions, spreading out DII, DIII teams out and shortening the playoffs for each division.  Just a thought.

I know that both UWW and MU could very well move up to DII without a problem!!!

-Ski
Wesley College Football.... A Winning Tradition! A Coach Mike Drass Legacy.

Knightstalker

Too difficult to make happen, you get into Scholarship issues and all that other fun garbage.  Plus you have other programs that would be on a different level and the NCAA has eliminated that from all but a handful of programs that are grandfathered in.

"In the end we will survive rather than perish not because we accumulate comfort and luxury but because we accumulate wisdom"  Colonel Jack Jacobs US Army (Ret).

DuffMan

Quote from: Teamski on November 02, 2007, 04:14:55 PM
I know that both UWW and MU could very well move up to DII without a problem!!!

UWW lost to a very mediocre to poor Saint Cloud State team this year.

A tradition unrivaled...
MIAC Champions: 1932, 1935, 1936, 1938, 1953, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1971, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1982, 1985, 1989, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2021, 2022
National Champions: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003

janesvilleflash

Right, but they have come a long way since then. They would smoke them now.
If you can't ignore an insult, top it; if you can't top it, laugh it off; and if you can't laugh it off, it's probably deserved.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: Teamski on November 02, 2007, 04:14:55 PM
Instead of basing teams on school size, base them on ability.

Teams aren't split up by school size now, either.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

smedindy

Quote from: Teamski on November 02, 2007, 04:14:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 01, 2007, 06:58:41 PM
  Other factors noted in the "Future of D-III" is that the division is growing so big that  the playoff brackets cannot handle the playoff ratio that is desired.   

What about the creation of a divisional system that allows the movement of teams between divisions, the same sort of system used in the UK?  Instead of basing teams on school size, base them on ability.  For example, the top 3 teams in DIII would move up to DII at the end of the season and vice versa.  You can create 5 divisions, spreading out DII, DIII teams out and shortening the playoffs for each division.  Just a thought.

I know that both UWW and MU could very well move up to DII without a problem!!!

-Ski

Some D-3 schools are larger than D-1 schools, so it's not size. It's an institutional decision if they really want to feed the scholarship money machine. Plus there are many other sports to think of in this decision as well, not just football. Mt. Union in D-2 football, fine. But Mt. Union as a D-2 in other sports - not so good.

Plus, Mt. Union would have to restructure their fundraising and their endowment to support even limited scholarships. They don't pull in a huge amount of unrestricted dollars ($1 million annual fund) and their endowment is only $130 million. While that may seem a lot to some D-3 schools, to compete for students in a highly competitive Ohio market and maintain a modicum of competitiveness in D-2 would require an outlay of funds that they may not have at their disposal now.

UWW is a state school, and has typical state school funding issues I assume. They don't have very robust fundraising nor endowment. So they're at the mercy of the state if they want to change their athletic paradigm.

So it's just not that simple.

Teamski

Gotcha.  I didn't know when scholarships kicked in.  Thanks for the education!  I am indeed a newbie! ;)

-Ski
Wesley College Football.... A Winning Tradition! A Coach Mike Drass Legacy.

DuffMan

Quote from: janesvilleflash on November 02, 2007, 06:50:22 PM
Right, but they have come a long way since then. They would smoke them now.

Well, as long as we're just making totally unsubstantiated claims, UW-Stout 56, UWW-7. :D

A tradition unrivaled...
MIAC Champions: 1932, 1935, 1936, 1938, 1953, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1971, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1982, 1985, 1989, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2021, 2022
National Champions: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003

janesvilleflash

If you can't ignore an insult, top it; if you can't top it, laugh it off; and if you can't laugh it off, it's probably deserved.