Conference changes

Started by hopefan, May 01, 2008, 11:25:46 AM

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smedindy

More D2 carnage - Notre Dame de Namur is suspending athletics and may close. So the *death* watch is on for D2 and D3 schools that a private and tuition dependent.

They weren't a very competitive school so D3 PNW or Cali schools may grab some of their athletes.

jmcozenlaw

Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 01, 2020, 01:00:12 PM
Great stuff here, JM -- reminds me of when you had that Mid-Atlantic site way back in the day!

Keystone is the one which added football.

Arcadia had been on the list for the AEC.

I'd be amused by Stevens coming to the Landmark. They were a founding member, and their president even leaked the announcement, and then Stevens left very early on in the process, allowing Scranton an opportunity to join.

Thanks Pat!! By the way.................Dave, you, Ryan, Gordon and Bob were awesome on the Hoopsville shows this year. That '5 box' is a biatch though. ;)

You are correct about Keystone. I might have been confusing them with Clarks Summit when I mentioned the 'Christian' school.

Arcadia continues to get overtures and I think that they are the first, if any do, of the MAC schools to move on. The AEC would be a decent fit. Eastern would be much more of a natural, given their profile and the proximity to Cabrini.

I think that the only way that Stevens winds up in the Landmark is if there is a departure and they are the most natural fit.

Of course, none of this factors in what happens if we have a few MacMurray's out this way (I could see a couple of MAC schools follow suit). I also wonder what would happen in a Doomsday scenario, as the CDC is now saying that this will "be with us" for the next 18 - 24 months..........on top of others now jumping in Kirk Herbstreit's recent comments.

The financial hit in hoops without the conference(s) and the national tournament was one thing, a big thing.................but, IF there is no college football this coming season, the financial hit would be exponentially greater............AND the two combined would be massive!! The mother ship up at Happy Valley, like most big time college programs, is funded through football. What is the trickle down to all of the other (outside of men's basketball and wrestling) non-revenue generating sports? What is the impact on all of the numerous PSU satellite campus?

We might be heading down a Conference Roulette path in the next couple of years, the likes of which we've never seen.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


I guess we don't really know what college campuses will be up for yet, but I do think there's plenty of time for sports to be back in the fall (and probably summer).  Once the testing gets caught up and those in charge have confidence we've crested and understand where the most serious outbreaks are, you're going to see pro sports coming back without fans.  We'll almost certainly have some pretty serious restrictions for a year or more, but there's almost no way we aren't on the downswing, in terms of medical capacity, by the fall.

With the number of schools reliant on tuition coming in, they're going to find a way to get students on campus, and, if they're there, they'll find a way to do athletics.  We might not get to see games in person, but the numbers we have now would have to plateau for months for the stay at home orders to still be necessary then.  I guess it would be good for everyone if that happened, but mathematically it's pretty unlikely.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

I am going to do this Sager style, so I apologize in advance LOL

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Dave - Thanks for the very thorough response!!

NEAC: To answer someone else's question here, the NEAC will go down to one division. Not everybody is happy, but they realize it's what has to happen, at least for now. I'm hearing that Lancaster Bible (after a couple of failed attempts, primarily self inflicted wounds though) is desperately looking to leave the NEAC. I also wonder if St. Mary's is regretting and/or can back out of their decision to move to the NEAC. It looks like there might be a better option or two for them when the conference roulette dust settles. The NEAC will be down to 8 with the 4 departing schools and if LBC is successful, now we're at 7. Morrisville would love out but there is no natural NY fit as of today. Does this eventually become the PA version of the WIAC or a modified WIAC, with primarily PSU satellite schools and a few other non-PSU schools? Sam Atkinson knows one hell of a lot more than me, although he probably can't go on the record at this point. My guess.....Lancaster Bible to the CSAC within 3 years.

When I made calls to SMC about their move to the NEAC, I was surprised at what I deemed to be either naive thinking or misunderstanding of the landscape. I don't think either they did their homework and research or they bought the spin being sent their way which was completely erronious. I can't remember what I have said on air or not, but they were under the impression the NEAC would be growing (knowing who would be leaving; already announced) back into a 12-member, division split conference (saving SMC eventually on travel since they wouldn't have to head north all that often). I was blunt: who do you think they are bringing in? -silence- Then a response about a few names. I shot down each one of them because I knew that IF those institutions were leaving their respective conferences, they would NOT be headed to the NEAC. That they had several stops along the way, as it where. (I am not going to name the institutions, because it is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.) At the same time, I explained who else was going to leave in the near future - ones I knew and ones my hunch was stronger than just a guess.

One of those leaving will be LBC as you indicated. However, I think the move, likely to the CSAC (I can't say too much based on convos I've had off the record), will be in far less than three years. If it takes 18 months to announce I would be shocked. My feeling is a year at the most, but more likely by next fall. Granted, our current situation leaves things more up in the air and could change the timeline for a lot of things.

NEAC is running into problems that its last commissioner allowed to fester. First, far too big geographically (remember, miles in this area don't matter as much as traffic, time on the road, and weather). Plus, the NEAC has a number of institutions who are financially weak (i.e. Wells). I think they lose more of the privates and as I've indicated I think Morrisville State is looking for another option. They have to be after the others defected.

I also don't think there is any more PA state schools coming. I know you keep referencing the small, non-athletic or juco like state schools shifting to four-year and becoming DIII institutions, but every time I check this with those in the know throughout the state the more I think this isn't happening. If it where to develop, it is probably ten years from fruition and we would have to see some concrete moves well beforehand. Those moves just aren't showing up.

And I don't think you need to worry about Sam Atkinson ... Gallaudet has to figure out what they want to do moving forward and I don't think the NEAC is where they stay. They have tried for years to leave the conference to no avail, but that doesn't mean it stays that way.

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
MAC: I've got several long time connections here and Dave's comments about a couple of proximate conferences being potential landing spots for departing schools makes sense given what I am hearing. Arcadia is an easy one, given that they had one foot out the door two years ago before backing out of a move (I forget if it was to the AEC or CSAC). DeSales has been quietly looking for a while and has actually been engaged in some quiet conversations with one conference in particular. They did a feasibility study looking at adding football and it was shot down. Messiah is also sniffing around, but does not know what would make better sense at this point. Lastly, the MAC is fully aware of their schools that are either looking around or have been approached and as a result.........they have a few potential "replacements" on speed dial so to speak. As an example, if King's/Wilkes/Miser all stay together in the MAC, the Christian school (whose name escapes me at the moment........right up the turnpike from those three) that recently added football is a target as well as another school or two that I won't mention here, but could be guessed quite easily. Two more MAC tidbits to watch out for, later rather than sooner, unless their is a lot of upheaval in the MAC..................and I will very briefly mention it below:

Much of what you indicate I have heard as well. I have wondered if DeSales was going to leave, but I also know they turned down overtures from the AEC group as it was forming. I don't know if they would look to that group again or not. I could see DeSales leaving ... and I could see them staying put especially since the Freedom is gaining strength.

Arcadia keeps popping up, but I'm just no longer biting on the bait. Yes, they were in the original group for the AEC. Then they were waiting as they found a new president. Then they were out. Then they were back in. Then they were waiting. Then they were back in. And then they were out at the last minute. I've been told they are frustrated at the spending in the conference, BUT they have also increased their own spending. Leaving would seem odd, but they are on my list of "possibles." I just have to see more real info before I am willing to buy into the rumors I hear from time to time.

I agree that if Messiah wants to leave, they have few options. Maybe the Landmark, but this is where the ego of the Landmark becomes a problem (as I've said in other places). The conference thinks their set-up is the best and they won't want someone powerful like Messiah coming in and rocking the boat. That said, they need a Messiah to help raise the profile of the conference because otherwise the Landmark will continue to remain in the middle of the road. They just haven't lived up to the expectations now ten years on - and many are admitting that publicly now.

I'm not buying the MAC has schools on speed-dial. First, they like to say this and said the same thing when the Landmark was formed ... but then took nearly the entire two-year grace period to find members to avoid any AQ problems. They had schools on speed dial, they forgot how to make calls. That shouldn't have taken two years. There are only a limited number remaining as well especially those who want to have a chance at conference glory ... rather than enter a jam packed group and try and fight through.

I also think it is okay if the MAC loses a few members. Yes, they have two divisions and they both have to be above 7 members for their AQs, but that is where the wiggle room sits. I think the idea of being so big is what has hurt the MAC over the years and is one of the biggest reasons (outside of the "haves and have nots" division amongst the schools) schools leave the conference. I don't think it would be a big deal if the conference was eight on each side (though, smaller sports could be affected) while maintaining it's football strength. (Being so big also results in a LOT of voices, opinions, and such all in the mix; that can end up bruising egos, feelings, and toes.)

BTW - the MAC has a "no financial penalty" clause for anyone leaving in less than two years. For many this might seem strange, but the real reason is so they can switch conference structures between the Commonwealth and Freedom easily. However, what it does create is that schools could jump at literally the last minute giving institutions plenty of time to debate any decisions to depart.

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Landmark: Stevens (will leave it at that, as brief as I could be) :)

I agree with Pat .. I'd be shocked if this were to happen. First off, they just moved in the Freedom this academic year. If this was realistic, they would have gone straight to the Landmark. The LC also has to be open to the idea (they have been stuck with the idea they are okay in terms of numbers, which I think is a naive premise). Also, Stevens was courted to join the CAC before deciding to go to the Freedom (travel certainly a factor). All of that gives me conference in saying: Stevens isn't going to leave the Freedom suddenly especially for the Landmark. They were an original member of the Landmark and they were essentially booted by the rest of the presidents the moment it was to be released (there is a story about a presidential meeting that Stevens refused to participate in that was supposedly to discuss something about Stevens - different versions depending on who you talk to - and Stevens was punted). If they showed up in the Landmark, I would be shocked.

Landmark is more likely the destination of ... well look at schools and see who you think is a "like-minded" one and you can develop a list yourself. :) But again, they have got to get out of their heads that eight members in these very trying times (both because of COVID-19 and because of constant conference movement created basically by the Landmark) is where they need to sit. They missed a chance to grow to ten a few years ago, despite the efforts of their commissioner I believe, so they now have to be more proactive ... which I am not sure they can be without a kick in the rear.

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
AEC: Would love to add Eastern

Yep ... and Arcadia would always have a place here if they wanted.

Goucher would also be a school the AEC wouldn't mind adding. However, for that to happen those in Towson need to think more about their student-athletes than the "glory" of finally figuring it out (despite numerous signs of more challenges) and winning somewhere in the distant future. (I have my personal opinions on this, but those who need to know somewhat know this already.)

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM

Last question, I'm pretty friendly with a couple of people down at Bob Jones and they have shown interest (I believe they are in the beginning stages at this moment) in becoming a part of NCAA D3, and like Lancaster Bible, it gives them the opportunity to stay in the NCCAA and get involved in their regional and national tournaments........unless they were to win their conference tournament and get an AQ. They are adding sports (baseball and softball were delayed by a year) and are looking at lacrosse and a couple of others. They are also in solid shape financially and have some nice facilities. Their gym is top notch (not in a Hope kind of way, nor in comparison to Wesley/Eastern/Manhattanville/DeSales either) and other non-athletic facilities are as well.

Dave, given where they are in Greenville, SC, is there a "natural" geographic conference for Bob Jones somewhere down the road?

I've been under the impression Bob Jones is headed to the USA South when they fully enter DIII. IF they are not actually brought into the USA South, the only place I think they land would be the CAC/ACAA merged group - at least until they get their footing and can get into either the splinter group of the USA South or the actual USA South (less likely).

The CAC/ACAA group will be that transitioning-like conference for a number of DIII members like Bob Jones (and one in the Philly area from what I've learned).

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Last question, do you see Hood as a long term member of the MAC, especially if they are eventually the only non-football member? I'm not hearing anything here, just a question.

I have no indications they are leaving. They have been rumored for awhile to depart back for the CAC, but I was told (not by those at Hood, though) there was no chance. They do seem like an outlier, but with the changes to the Commonwealth, that is less the case than it was previously. I don't know where else they would go as they are too far away for the CSAC and I don't think they fit with the AEC make-up.

So Hood remains in the Commonwealth is how I see it.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 05:35:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 01, 2020, 01:00:12 PM
I'd be amused by Stevens coming to the Landmark. They were a founding member, and their president even leaked the announcement, and then Stevens left very early on in the process, allowing Scranton an opportunity to join.

Thanks Pat!! By the way.................Dave, you, Ryan, Gordon and Bob were awesome on the Hoopsville shows this year. That '5 box' is a biatch though. ;)


How do you mean "biatch?" It was less than FOX, MSNBC, and CNN puts on the air. LOL

Production wise, it was a challenge to say the least. LOL

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 05:35:50 PM
Of course, none of this factors in what happens if we have a few MacMurray's out this way (I could see a couple of MAC schools follow suit). I also wonder what would happen in a Doomsday scenario, as the CDC is now saying that this will "be with us" for the next 18 - 24 months..........on top of others now jumping in Kirk Herbstreit's recent comments.

The financial hit in hoops without the conference(s) and the national tournament was one thing, a big thing.................but, IF there is no college football this coming season, the financial hit would be exponentially greater............AND the two combined would be massive!! The mother ship up at Happy Valley, like most big time college programs, is funded through football. What is the trickle down to all of the other (outside of men's basketball and wrestling) non-revenue generating sports? What is the impact on all of the numerous PSU satellite campus?

We might be heading down a Conference Roulette path in the next couple of years, the likes of which we've never seen.

I made a prediction at the beginning of the year that 6-12 schools would close ... but that was before COVID-19. Now I think it will be 15-20 at least. Yes. It will have an impact.

College football won't impact DIII all that much. Remember, there is NO money from D1/FBS football into the NCAA. Not a penny. That money goes to the conferences and schools involved (thus the complaints from the non-Power 5 that they keep getting left out of the playoff when they have legit teams to participate).

So, there is no money to be lost to the NCAA as a whole until we get back to next March Madness. They have already lost whatever money they were to lose per TV contacts and such. (Some of the deals with ESPN and others are also not huge money generators; more like trade outs like women's basketball).

And the PSU satellite's I think are budgeted on their own. I say that mainly because DI money can't cross over to other divisions. For example, JHU lacrosse money and budget cannot impact the DIII athletics (separate budget). Sure, there was a new field put down for lacrosse that impacts football, soccers, field hockey, etc., but have you noticed that was not a field designed primarily for football, but actually lacrosse? One of the rare field-turfs that doesn't have football as the primary design/lines.

I think DII and DIII survive a college football change more than others ... but we are four-plus months from pre-season even starting and give months from the first games ... let's get down the road a bit more before we jump on that bridge - there are others to cross first.

As for the Conference Roulette - we have been there for at least as long as the Landmark Conference has existed. Things had been relatively quiet and stable ahead of that move (small movements). The creation of the Landmark continues to ripple not only in the Atlantic/Mid-Atlantic, but has been rippling through the East, Northeast, Great Lakes, and South ... and the idea of these moves has been felt in the rest of the country.

Roulette is where we have been for nearly 15 years. :)
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Oh, the idea that this COVID-19 will be with us for 18-24 months ... remember, H1N1 is still with us ten and a half years after it popped up. These viruses don't go away. We have to get the vaccines and anti-virals up along with treatments. Then the virus becomes a secondary thought once we have immunity and abilities to prevent and treat. :)
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
I am going to do this Sager style, so I apologize in advance LOL

Not quite sure how I should take that. ;)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

jmcozenlaw

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
I am going to do this Sager style, so I apologize in advance LOL

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Dave - Thanks for the very thorough response!!

NEAC: To answer someone else's question here, the NEAC will go down to one division. Not everybody is happy, but they realize it's what has to happen, at least for now. I'm hearing that Lancaster Bible (after a couple of failed attempts, primarily self inflicted wounds though) is desperately looking to leave the NEAC. I also wonder if St. Mary's is regretting and/or can back out of their decision to move to the NEAC. It looks like there might be a better option or two for them when the conference roulette dust settles. The NEAC will be down to 8 with the 4 departing schools and if LBC is successful, now we're at 7. Morrisville would love out but there is no natural NY fit as of today. Does this eventually become the PA version of the WIAC or a modified WIAC, with primarily PSU satellite schools and a few other non-PSU schools? Sam Atkinson knows one hell of a lot more than me, although he probably can't go on the record at this point. My guess.....Lancaster Bible to the CSAC within 3 years.

When I made calls to SMC about their move to the NEAC, I was surprised at what I deemed to be either naive thinking or misunderstanding of the landscape. I don't think either they did their homework and research or they bought the spin being sent their way which was completely erronious. I can't remember what I have said on air or not, but they were under the impression the NEAC would be growing (knowing who would be leaving; already announced) back into a 12-member, division split conference (saving SMC eventually on travel since they wouldn't have to head north all that often). I was blunt: who do you think they are bringing in? -silence- Then a response about a few names. I shot down each one of them because I knew that IF those institutions were leaving their respective conferences, they would NOT be headed to the NEAC. That they had several stops along the way, as it where. (I am not going to name the institutions, because it is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.) At the same time, I explained who else was going to leave in the near future - ones I knew and ones my hunch was stronger than just a guess.

One of those leaving will be LBC as you indicated. However, I think the move, likely to the CSAC (I can't say too much based on convos I've had off the record), will be in far less than three years. If it takes 18 months to announce I would be shocked. My feeling is a year at the most, but more likely by next fall. Granted, our current situation leaves things more up in the air and could change the timeline for a lot of things.

NEAC is running into problems that its last commissioner allowed to fester. First, far too big geographically (remember, miles in this area don't matter as much as traffic, time on the road, and weather). Plus, the NEAC has a number of institutions who are financially weak (i.e. Wells). I think they lose more of the privates and as I've indicated I think Morrisville State is looking for another option. They have to be after the others defected.

I also don't think there is any more PA state schools coming. I know you keep referencing the small, non-athletic or juco like state schools shifting to four-year and becoming DIII institutions, but every time I check this with those in the know throughout the state the more I think this isn't happening. If it where to develop, it is probably ten years from fruition and we would have to see some concrete moves well beforehand. Those moves just aren't showing up.

And I don't think you need to worry about Sam Atkinson ... Gallaudet has to figure out what they want to do moving forward and I don't think the NEAC is where they stay. They have tried for years to leave the conference to no avail, but that doesn't mean it stays that way.

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
MAC: I've got several long time connections here and Dave's comments about a couple of proximate conferences being potential landing spots for departing schools makes sense given what I am hearing. Arcadia is an easy one, given that they had one foot out the door two years ago before backing out of a move (I forget if it was to the AEC or CSAC). DeSales has been quietly looking for a while and has actually been engaged in some quiet conversations with one conference in particular. They did a feasibility study looking at adding football and it was shot down. Messiah is also sniffing around, but does not know what would make better sense at this point. Lastly, the MAC is fully aware of their schools that are either looking around or have been approached and as a result.........they have a few potential "replacements" on speed dial so to speak. As an example, if King's/Wilkes/Miser all stay together in the MAC, the Christian school (whose name escapes me at the moment........right up the turnpike from those three) that recently added football is a target as well as another school or two that I won't mention here, but could be guessed quite easily. Two more MAC tidbits to watch out for, later rather than sooner, unless their is a lot of upheaval in the MAC..................and I will very briefly mention it below:

Much of what you indicate I have heard as well. I have wondered if DeSales was going to leave, but I also know they turned down overtures from the AEC group as it was forming. I don't know if they would look to that group again or not. I could see DeSales leaving ... and I could see them staying put especially since the Freedom is gaining strength.

Arcadia keeps popping up, but I'm just no longer biting on the bait. Yes, they were in the original group for the AEC. Then they were waiting as they found a new president. Then they were out. Then they were back in. Then they were waiting. Then they were back in. And then they were out at the last minute. I've been told they are frustrated at the spending in the conference, BUT they have also increased their own spending. Leaving would seem odd, but they are on my list of "possibles." I just have to see more real info before I am willing to buy into the rumors I hear from time to time.

I agree that if Messiah wants to leave, they have few options. Maybe the Landmark, but this is where the ego of the Landmark becomes a problem (as I've said in other places). The conference thinks their set-up is the best and they won't want someone powerful like Messiah coming in and rocking the boat. That said, they need a Messiah to help raise the profile of the conference because otherwise the Landmark will continue to remain in the middle of the road. They just haven't lived up to the expectations now ten years on - and many are admitting that publicly now.

I'm not buying the MAC has schools on speed-dial. First, they like to say this and said the same thing when the Landmark was formed ... but then took nearly the entire two-year grace period to find members to avoid any AQ problems. They had schools on speed dial, they forgot how to make calls. That shouldn't have taken two years. There are only a limited number remaining as well especially those who want to have a chance at conference glory ... rather than enter a jam packed group and try and fight through.

I also think it is okay if the MAC loses a few members. Yes, they have two divisions and they both have to be above 7 members for their AQs, but that is where the wiggle room sits. I think the idea of being so big is what has hurt the MAC over the years and is one of the biggest reasons (outside of the "haves and have nots" division amongst the schools) schools leave the conference. I don't think it would be a big deal if the conference was eight on each side (though, smaller sports could be affected) while maintaining it's football strength. (Being so big also results in a LOT of voices, opinions, and such all in the mix; that can end up bruising egos, feelings, and toes.)

BTW - the MAC has a "no financial penalty" clause for anyone leaving in less than two years. For many this might seem strange, but the real reason is so they can switch conference structures between the Commonwealth and Freedom easily. However, what it does create is that schools could jump at literally the last minute giving institutions plenty of time to debate any decisions to depart.

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Landmark: Stevens (will leave it at that, as brief as I could be) :)

I agree with Pat .. I'd be shocked if this were to happen. First off, they just moved in the Freedom this academic year. If this was realistic, they would have gone straight to the Landmark. The LC also has to be open to the idea (they have been stuck with the idea they are okay in terms of numbers, which I think is a naive premise). Also, Stevens was courted to join the CAC before deciding to go to the Freedom (travel certainly a factor). All of that gives me conference in saying: Stevens isn't going to leave the Freedom suddenly especially for the Landmark. They were an original member of the Landmark and they were essentially booted by the rest of the presidents the moment it was to be released (there is a story about a presidential meeting that Stevens refused to participate in that was supposedly to discuss something about Stevens - different versions depending on who you talk to - and Stevens was punted). If they showed up in the Landmark, I would be shocked.

Landmark is more likely the destination of ... well look at schools and see who you think is a "like-minded" one and you can develop a list yourself. :) But again, they have got to get out of their heads that eight members in these very trying times (both because of COVID-19 and because of constant conference movement created basically by the Landmark) is where they need to sit. They missed a chance to grow to ten a few years ago, despite the efforts of their commissioner I believe, so they now have to be more proactive ... which I am not sure they can be without a kick in the rear.

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
AEC: Would love to add Eastern

Yep ... and Arcadia would always have a place here if they wanted.

Goucher would also be a school the AEC wouldn't mind adding. However, for that to happen those in Towson need to think more about their student-athletes than the "glory" of finally figuring it out (despite numerous signs of more challenges) and winning somewhere in the distant future. (I have my personal opinions on this, but those who need to know somewhat know this already.)

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM

Last question, I'm pretty friendly with a couple of people down at Bob Jones and they have shown interest (I believe they are in the beginning stages at this moment) in becoming a part of NCAA D3, and like Lancaster Bible, it gives them the opportunity to stay in the NCCAA and get involved in their regional and national tournaments........unless they were to win their conference tournament and get an AQ. They are adding sports (baseball and softball were delayed by a year) and are looking at lacrosse and a couple of others. They are also in solid shape financially and have some nice facilities. Their gym is top notch (not in a Hope kind of way, nor in comparison to Wesley/Eastern/Manhattanville/DeSales either) and other non-athletic facilities are as well.

Dave, given where they are in Greenville, SC, is there a "natural" geographic conference for Bob Jones somewhere down the road?

I've been under the impression Bob Jones is headed to the USA South when they fully enter DIII. IF they are not actually brought into the USA South, the only place I think they land would be the CAC/ACAA merged group - at least until they get their footing and can get into either the splinter group of the USA South or the actual USA South (less likely).

The CAC/ACAA group will be that transitioning-like conference for a number of DIII members like Bob Jones (and one in the Philly area from what I've learned).

Quote from: jmcozenlaw on April 01, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Last question, do you see Hood as a long term member of the MAC, especially if they are eventually the only non-football member? I'm not hearing anything here, just a question.

I have no indications they are leaving. They have been rumored for awhile to depart back for the CAC, but I was told (not by those at Hood, though) there was no chance. They do seem like an outlier, but with the changes to the Commonwealth, that is less the case than it was previously. I don't know where else they would go as they are too far away for the CSAC and I don't think they fit with the AEC make-up.

So Hood remains in the Commonwealth is how I see it.

Dave, thanks for your thoughts, the time and the detail. It was excellent as a stand alone, but in the absence of actual sports..........it was poetry!!

Oh, the "biatch" was fully meant as a compliment...............and I loved how Ryan couldn't stop himself from laughing as someone would become a small box, oblong box and huge box!! :)

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Yeah ... I finally decided Wirecast doesn't like me cropping and resizing the boxes, so while it doesn't look as good, I had to go with the normal shapes. I think I might spend some of my down time (and I have a lot of it right now) creating the look I want in photoshop and then just insert the videos behind essentially a cutout look. :)

Glad someone likes what I write. I did a bit less of of it this year for a lot of reasons one of them being I figured people didn't really read what I wrote anywhere I wrote it.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

iwumichigander

Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 02, 2020, 06:24:13 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 02, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
I am going to do this Sager style, so I apologize in advance LOL

Not quite sure how I should take that. ;)
Not even close D-Mac!  Must be a full page or more; and lacking length, must have obscure quotes that only a Sager could pull from the Netherlands of this site.  Lacks sufficient subtle sarcasm that readers after scrolling through subsequent posts go "Oh, I get that!"  But, very good try.  Keep practicing but then "It's only practice"

kiko

In addition, the word count on that post was only 2,332.  When you run this through Massey's secret formula, it translates into .532278 Sager units.  Gregory's replies typically extend to at least 3.14 Sager units as he runs circles around the original poster's logic.

Unfortunately, we also can't round this up and give credit for one Sager unit.  Everyone knows that Sager units are not rounded up, but rather carried out to the sixth decimal place (unless we are discussing Paradisio Dante, in which case they are carried out to nine decimals).

Greek Tragedy

I have no doubt that in the past, Sager has typed a message and when he hit "post" there was an error because he exceeded the character limit.
Pointers
Breed of a Champion
2004, 2005, 2010 and 2015 National Champions

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TGHIJGSTO!!!

augie77

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 04, 2020, 11:44:55 AM
I have no doubt that in the past, Sager has typed a message and when he hit "post" there was an error because he exceeded the character limit.

That's when his "posts" are turned into "chapters".   ;D

Ralph Turner

Quote from: kiko on April 04, 2020, 02:50:47 AM
In addition, the word count on that post was only 2,332.  When you run this through Massey's secret formula, it translates into .532278 Sager units.  Gregory's replies typically extend to at least 3.14 Sager units as he runs circles around the original poster's logic.

Unfortunately, we also can't round this up and give credit for one Sager unit.  Everyone knows that Sager units are not rounded up, but rather carried out to the sixth decimal place (unless we are discussing Paradisio Dante, in which case they are carried out to nine decimals).
Consulting the Official Handbook, they may be taken out to 6 or to 9 decimals. However Sager units are like Pool B and Pool C bids. They are truncated to the integer.
He gets a "0".   ;)

jmcozenlaw

Lancaster Bible is getting a little closer to an announcement regarding their departure from the NEAC. Men's Hoops also might have a VERY interesting transfer.............a higher level player, wanting a different type of education and environment. Those who remember their 27-1 season from a couple of years ago.............this guy is bigger and quite a bit better than CJ Dunston. He also might take a year away on a mission, which is also up in the air given the state of things right now. If Morrisville can find a dance partner, St. Mary's can quickly back out and if there aren't any other PSU schools looking to move (not the whole group.........just one or two to allow the NEAC to survive for now), this could be the end of the NEAC.