FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

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HScoach

Quote from: desertraider on January 09, 2018, 04:58:49 PM
On the best teams from each OAC school - are we including Wilmington?  ;D

Bluestreak66 - I see the logic on selecting the 2016 team but the 2002 team would have rolled them. Yes, 2002 jcu got rolled by Mount but that was a GREAT Mount team: Adamson, Pugh, Knapp, Sirianni, Kern, Caponi, Clum, Campbell, Spisak, Dillard. 2016 Mount was a bit down and jcu got lucky (sorry but they still needed a last second prayer). Point is jcu 2002 had Arth at QB and as much as it pains me to say it - Arth was an absolutely incredible QB that would have picked apart the 2016 version.

I agree with 2002 over 2016.   That 2002 was scary good before Arth got hurt and they limped into the playoffs.  Arth almost, and I mean ALMOST, carried JCU past some of the better Mount teams.  2001 was 33-30, 2000 was 41-31 and who can forget the 3 OT thriller when Arth was a freshman in 1999.   Those JCU teams were really good and capable of a lengthy playoff run if Mount wasn't in their way. 
I find easily offended people rather offensive!

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.

WRMUalum13

Quote from: HScoach on January 10, 2018, 12:16:57 PM
Quote from: desertraider on January 09, 2018, 04:58:49 PM
On the best teams from each OAC school - are we including Wilmington?  ;D

Bluestreak66 - I see the logic on selecting the 2016 team but the 2002 team would have rolled them. Yes, 2002 jcu got rolled by Mount but that was a GREAT Mount team: Adamson, Pugh, Knapp, Sirianni, Kern, Caponi, Clum, Campbell, Spisak, Dillard. 2016 Mount was a bit down and jcu got lucky (sorry but they still needed a last second prayer). Point is jcu 2002 had Arth at QB and as much as it pains me to say it - Arth was an absolutely incredible QB that would have picked apart the 2016 version.

I agree with 2002 over 2016.   That 2002 was scary good before Arth got hurt and they limped into the playoffs.  Arth almost, and I mean ALMOST, carried JCU past some of the better Mount teams.  2001 was 33-30, 2000 was 41-31 and who can forget the 3 OT thriller when Arth was a freshman in 1999.   Those JCU teams were really good and capable of a lengthy playoff run if Mount wasn't in their way.

Yes, don't confuse achievement with talent. The 2016 team certainly achieved the most, but it doesn't automatically make them the best

WRMUalum13

Quote from: HScoach on January 10, 2018, 12:08:36 PM
Quote from: bluestreak66 on January 08, 2018, 09:58:38 AM
Now that the season is over, I was thinking it might be kind of fun to identify the best team in the history of each OAC school! I'll let you Mount folk figure that out lol, but I'll start with JCU. I'd say it would have to be the 2016 team. They reached the semis in 2002, but that season, they were rolled by Mount twice. in 16, they came within a touchdown of heading for Salem. There were also some good teams in the 50s, but they didn't achieve the same post season success as the 2016 team.
For BW, it would have to be 1978, aka, the only year BW football as done anything haha!
Any others?

I know you asked for only the best team, but that's too easy to do with Mount since 1997 is a runaway train.   So I took the liberty of doing an even dozen.   Here's my 2 cents on the top Mount teams that I've seen since 1992 when the run to the top began:

1.   1997 - by a wide margin.  Lead by 4-year starter Bill Borchert, best QB to ever play at Mount.  His senior year was 61 TD's / 2 INT's.  The first of the great receiving corps with Knestric & Gollate out wide.  Defense led by junior MLB Jason Hall, the best of the best LB's in Mount history.  A true game changing LB who was regarded as the best in the conference, even over London Fletcher of Washington Redskins fame.

2.   2008 – Kmic was the most prolific RB in NCAA history. Micheli won the Gagliardi and was throwing to a NFL receiver in Cecil Shorts.  Kmic finished '08 with 2,790 yards / 43 TD.  Micheli completed 75% of his passes with 36 TD's.

3.   1993 – Jim Ballard won the first Gagliardi Award and is the Webster's definition of swagger.     70.1% completion / 4,572 yards / 54 TD's / 14 INT's.  Wasn't the pure athlete at QB that Borchert was, but he had a gun for an arm and ice in his veins.  IMHO, the greatest of the great leaders in Mount in history.  Had one of the top 5 WR's ever in Ed Bubonics and the best ever TE in Rob Atwood.  Defense was led by some guy named Mike Hallett who had 111 tackles, at DT.   Though most forget about him, Jim Gresko rushed for 1,517 yards/16 TD and caught 71 passes for 638 yards/11 TD's.  That was a scary good offense.

4.   2007 – Micheli & Kmic as juniors with Pierre Garcon as a senior.  Great team that came within a fumble in the freezing rain of a 4th title in a row.

5.   2001 – Great backfield of Gagliardi winning TB Chuck Moore and Dan Pugh, who won it the next year.   Defense was led by Matt Campbell, probably the best DE in Mount history.

6.   2015 – very good team that turned it up a few notches come playoff time.   Rose to the occasion along the O and D lines when it mattered most.   Logan Nemeth broke thru at RB to become Kmic-like and T Scott played with poise at QB.   Best player on the field was DT Tom Lally, who arguably was the best DT in Mount history.  At least most productive DT.

7.   2012 – very talented, senior dominated team across the board except for super sophomore Kevin Burke at QB.  Would be higher on list if they had better line play.  Good up front, but not great. 

8.   1996 – see the 1997 team, only as juniors

9.   1992 – The 1993 team as juniors dominated the semi-final at LaCrosse but turned it over 5 times on a frozen field.  Great team that came back in 1993 with an undying focus to win the first title.

10.   2002 – Led by Gagliardi winning RB Dan Pugh, 2,303 yards / 6.0 avg / 41 TD's, the '02 Raiders cruised to the title with a punishing ground game and a QB (Rob Adamson) that didn't get to show off his big arm due to the dominating ground game. 


11.   2017 – Great WR corps made the offense go, but line play and RB's were average.   Defense stepped up when needed to win a title but too inconsistent to be any higher on the list.

12.   1998 - Least talented to win a title.  Very young team lead by a stud MLB (Jason Hall) and a bunch of kids that would end up great players.  Won a ton of close games that they had no business winning.

If 1998 was the "least talented to win a title" that would make 2005 and 2006 more talented by default. What do you have against those two teams :(

HScoach

^See what happens when you get old!   I've revised my list to a Top 15.   Thought about doing all of them since 1992 but that made my head hurt.....
I find easily offended people rather offensive!

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.

WRMUalum13

Quote from: HScoach on January 10, 2018, 12:08:36 PM
Quote from: bluestreak66 on January 08, 2018, 09:58:38 AM
Now that the season is over, I was thinking it might be kind of fun to identify the best team in the history of each OAC school! I'll let you Mount folk figure that out lol, but I'll start with JCU. I'd say it would have to be the 2016 team. They reached the semis in 2002, but that season, they were rolled by Mount twice. in 16, they came within a touchdown of heading for Salem. There were also some good teams in the 50s, but they didn't achieve the same post season success as the 2016 team.
For BW, it would have to be 1978, aka, the only year BW football as done anything haha!
Any others?

I know you asked for only the best team, but that's too easy to do with Mount since 1997 is a runaway train.   So I took the liberty of doing a Top 15.   Here's my 2 cents on the top Mount teams that I've seen since 1992 when the run to the top began:

Here's my 2 cents on the top Mount teams that I've seen since 1992 when the run began to the top:

1.   1997 - by a wide margin.  Lead by 4-year starter Bill Borchert, best QB to ever play at Mount.  His senior year was 61 TD's / 2 INT's.  The first of the great receiving corps with Knestric & Gollate out wide.  Defense led by junior MLB Jason Hall, the best of the best LB's in Mount history.  A true game changing LB who was regarded as the best in the conference, even over London Fletcher of Washington Redskins fame.

2.   2008 – Kmic was the most prolific RB in NCAA history. Micheli won the Gagliardi and was throwing to a NFL receiver in Cecil Shorts.  Kmic finished '08 with 2,790 yards / 43 TD.  Micheli completed 75% of his passes with 36 TD's.

3.   1993 – Jim Ballard won the first Gagliardi Award and is the Webster's definition of swagger.     70.1% completion / 4,572 yards / 54 TD's / 14 INT's.  Wasn't the pure athlete at QB that Borchert was, but he had a gun for an arm and ice in his veins.  IMHO, the greatest of the great leaders in Mount in history.  Had one of the top 5 WR's ever in Ed Bubonics and the best ever TE in Rob Atwood.  Defense was led by some guy named Mike Hallett who had 111 tackles, at DT.   Though most forget about him, Jim Gresko rushed for 1,517 yards/16 TD and caught 71 passes for 638 yards/11 TD's.  That was a scary good offense.

4.   2007 – Micheli & Kmic as juniors with Pierre Garcon as a senior.  Great team that came within a fumble in the freezing rain of a 4th title in a row.

5.   2001 – Great backfield of Gagliardi winning TB Chuck Moore and Dan Pugh, who won it the next year.   Defense was led by Matt Campbell, probably the best DE in Mount history.

6.   2015 – very good team that turned it up a few notches come playoff time.   Rose to the occasion along the O and D lines when it mattered most.   Logan Nemeth broke thru at RB to become Kmic-like and T Scott played with poise at QB.   Best player on the field was DT Tom Lally, who arguably was the best DT in Mount history.  At least most productive DT.

7.   2012 – very talented, senior dominated team across the board except for super sophomore Kevin Burke at QB.  Would be higher on list if they had better line play.  Good up front, but not great. 

8.   1996 – see the 1997 team, only as juniors

9.   1992 – The 1993 team as juniors dominated the semi-final at LaCrosse but turned it over 5 times on a frozen field.  Great team that came back in 1993 with an undying focus to win the first title.

10.   2002 – Led by Gagliardi winning RB Dan Pugh, 2,303 yards / 6.0 avg / 41 TD's, the '02 Raiders cruised to the title with a punishing ground game and a QB (Rob Adamson) that didn't get to show off his big arm due to the dominating ground game. 

11.   2006 – younger version of 2007.

12.   1998 - Very young team lead by a stud MLB (Jason Hall) and a bunch of kids that would end up great players.  Won a ton of close games that they had no business winning.

13.   2017 – Great WR corps made the offense go, but line play and RB's were average.   Defense stepped up when needed to win a title but too inconsistent to be any higher on the list. 

14.   2000 – solid in all phases, but not dominant other than Chuck Moore.   

15.   2005 – offense with limited QB play that caught lightning with Kmic as a freshman in the playoffs.

A little surprised 2014 didn't sneak on your top 15. The most prolific offense in all of college football ever. TOs penalties and inexperienced coaching did them in in the championship game, but I still believe they were better than UWW that year.

HScoach

I'm not high on the '14 team for a few reasons:

1.  inexperience in coaching staff.   Not as bad as '13, but still not good.
2.  offensive stats inflated by horrible OAC
3.  sub-standard defense.

They were much better than 2013, but I felt all season that they weren't good enough as a team to seriously compete for a title.  It's tempting to rank '14 higher than I think they should be because of how much better they were over '13, but the '13 might be the worst Mount team I've seen since the early 90's.   If not the absolute worst, they're fighting for it with the '04 team.
I find easily offended people rather offensive!

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.

WRMUalum13

Quote from: HScoach on January 10, 2018, 05:04:32 PM
I'm not high on the '14 team for a few reasons:

1.  inexperience in coaching staff.   Not as bad as '13, but still not good.
2.  offensive stats inflated by horrible OAC
3.  sub-standard defense.

They were much better than 2013, but I felt all season that they weren't good enough as a team to seriously compete for a title.  It's tempting to rank '14 higher than I think they should be because of how much better they were over '13, but the '13 might be the worst Mount team I've seen since the early 90's.   If not the absolute worst, they're fighting for it with the '04 team.

Very good points! I just remember how well that offense ran when it clicked, that high tempo style was just brutal against lesser competition and Burke ran the zone read better than I've ever seen it done. And to be fair to 14, they put up some big scores against playoff opponents as well, so you can't entirely blame a down OAC.

However, the coaching inexperience was huge. And that high tempo style unfortunately played into UWWs game plan in the stagg. Mount would either score in 90 seconds or punt, and their poor defense never got a rest. I think TOP was like 40 20 uww in that game.

emma17

That 2014 offense was tough to stop, partly because it had the playground element with the best kids on the block. Burke on the read, Namdar blazing down the sideline pulling DB's with him leaving Scott wide at the line of scrimmage to catch the underneath stuff Burke would throw on the run. Nemeth had a good day as the UWW D was stretched and stressed.
Ahhh, those were the days.

Dr. Acula

Quote from: HScoach on January 10, 2018, 12:08:36 PM
Quote from: bluestreak66 on January 08, 2018, 09:58:38 AM
Now that the season is over, I was thinking it might be kind of fun to identify the best team in the history of each OAC school! I'll let you Mount folk figure that out lol, but I'll start with JCU. I'd say it would have to be the 2016 team. They reached the semis in 2002, but that season, they were rolled by Mount twice. in 16, they came within a touchdown of heading for Salem. There were also some good teams in the 50s, but they didn't achieve the same post season success as the 2016 team.
For BW, it would have to be 1978, aka, the only year BW football as done anything haha!
Any others?

14.   2000 – solid in all phases, but not dominant other than Chuck Moore.   


I'd throw in Marino as dominant too.  School record 110 catches for 1600+ yds on a team whose next leading receivers after him were Moore and Pugh.  He was the passing game for an offense that lead D3 in scoring.

merlecanlas

Quote from: HScoach on January 10, 2018, 12:08:36 PM
Quote from: bluestreak66 on January 08, 2018, 09:58:38 AM
Now that the season is over, I was thinking it might be kind of fun to identify the best team in the history of each OAC school! I'll let you Mount folk figure that out lol, but I'll start with JCU. I'd say it would have to be the 2016 team. They reached the semis in 2002, but that season, they were rolled by Mount twice. in 16, they came within a touchdown of heading for Salem. There were also some good teams in the 50s, but they didn't achieve the same post season success as the 2016 team.
For BW, it would have to be 1978, aka, the only year BW football as done anything haha!
Any others?

I know you asked for only the best team, but that's too easy to do with Mount since 1997 is a runaway train.   So I took the liberty of doing a Top 15.   Here's my 2 cents on the top Mount teams that I've seen since 1992 when the run to the top began:

Here's my 2 cents on the top Mount teams that I've seen since 1992 when the run began to the top:

1.   1997 - by a wide margin.  Lead by 4-year starter Bill Borchert, best QB to ever play at Mount.  His senior year was 61 TD's / 2 INT's.  The first of the great receiving corps with Knestric & Gollate out wide.  Defense led by junior MLB Jason Hall, the best of the best LB's in Mount history.  A true game changing LB who was regarded as the best in the conference, even over London Fletcher of Washington Redskins fame.

2.   2008 – Kmic was the most prolific RB in NCAA history. Micheli won the Gagliardi and was throwing to a NFL receiver in Cecil Shorts.  Kmic finished '08 with 2,790 yards / 43 TD.  Micheli completed 75% of his passes with 36 TD's.

3.   1993 – Jim Ballard won the first Gagliardi Award and is the Webster's definition of swagger.     70.1% completion / 4,572 yards / 54 TD's / 14 INT's.  Wasn't the pure athlete at QB that Borchert was, but he had a gun for an arm and ice in his veins.  IMHO, the greatest of the great leaders in Mount in history.  Had one of the top 5 WR's ever in Ed Bubonics and the best ever TE in Rob Atwood.  Defense was led by some guy named Mike Hallett who had 111 tackles, at DT.   Though most forget about him, Jim Gresko rushed for 1,517 yards/16 TD and caught 71 passes for 638 yards/11 TD's.  That was a scary good offense.

4.   2007 – Micheli & Kmic as juniors with Pierre Garcon as a senior.  Great team that came within a fumble in the freezing rain of a 4th title in a row.

5.   2001 – Great backfield of Gagliardi winning TB Chuck Moore and Dan Pugh, who won it the next year.   Defense was led by Matt Campbell, probably the best DE in Mount history.

6.   2015 – very good team that turned it up a few notches come playoff time.   Rose to the occasion along the O and D lines when it mattered most.   Logan Nemeth broke thru at RB to become Kmic-like and T Scott played with poise at QB.   Best player on the field was DT Tom Lally, who arguably was the best DT in Mount history.  At least most productive DT.

7.   2012 – very talented, senior dominated team across the board except for super sophomore Kevin Burke at QB.  Would be higher on list if they had better line play.  Good up front, but not great. 

8.   1996 – see the 1997 team, only as juniors

9.   1992 – The 1993 team as juniors dominated the semi-final at LaCrosse but turned it over 5 times on a frozen field.  Great team that came back in 1993 with an undying focus to win the first title.

10.   2002 – Led by Gagliardi winning RB Dan Pugh, 2,303 yards / 6.0 avg / 41 TD's, the '02 Raiders cruised to the title with a punishing ground game and a QB (Rob Adamson) that didn't get to show off his big arm due to the dominating ground game. 

11.   2006 – younger version of 2007.

12.   1998 - Very young team lead by a stud MLB (Jason Hall) and a bunch of kids that would end up great players.  Won a ton of close games that they had no business winning.

13.   2017 – Great WR corps made the offense go, but line play and RB's were average.   Defense stepped up when needed to win a title but too inconsistent to be any higher on the list. 

14.   2000 – solid in all phases, but not dominant other than Chuck Moore.   

15.   2005 – offense with limited QB play that caught lightning with Kmic as a freshman in the playoffs.

2007 and 2014 are two of the bigger disappointments for me.  Great teams, but just hurt themselves.

emma17

^^
Yeah, that's sort of what happens when you run into a wall.

merlecanlas

Quote from: emma17 on January 11, 2018, 03:53:23 PM
^^
Yeah, that's sort of what happens when you run into a wall.

why is an Oshkosh fan talking about the greatest Mount Union teams?

emma17

Quote from: merlecanlas on January 11, 2018, 03:57:58 PM
Quote from: emma17 on January 11, 2018, 03:53:23 PM
^^
Yeah, that's sort of what happens when you run into a wall.

why is an Oshkosh fan talking about the greatest Mount Union teams?

Right.
I'd have to say your 2017 team is much better than your 2010 and 2011 teams.

WRMUalum13

Quote from: emma17 on January 11, 2018, 03:53:23 PM
^^
Yeah, that's sort of what happens when you run into a wall.

Merle's got a point though, the fumble right before half was a result of a uww play but it was self inflicted, because they should have been running out the half instead of Throwing the ball around. It was the type of panicked play calling mounts opponents usually fall into when they fall behind.

Yes UWW resulted in a lot of the bad plays, but there were quite a few unforced errors like the above mentioned play

emma17

Quote from: WRMUalum13 on January 11, 2018, 05:52:26 PM
Quote from: emma17 on January 11, 2018, 03:53:23 PM
^^
Yeah, that's sort of what happens when you run into a wall.

Merle's got a point though, the fumble right before half was a result of a uww play but it was self inflicted, because they should have been running out the half instead of Throwing the ball around. It was the type of panicked play calling mounts opponents usually fall into when they fall behind.

Yes UWW resulted in a lot of the bad plays, but there were quite a few unforced errors like the above mentioned play

Blah, blah, blah. For cry eye, don't you Mt fans hate it when nearly every team you beat has a similar "but only" story? The fumble before half resulted in a field goal for UWW. Not the game changed you'd like it to be. I seem to remember UWW missing a chip shot field goal later in the game.
Did UWW play a perfect game? Did they have any unforced errors themselves? I seem to remember the great UWW QB missing a super easy screen pass in the fourth that would have had been a TD.
Your young coach wasn't to blame for the 80 yard screen pass TD that happened after UWW fell behind. Rather, it was incredibly determined UWW players making blocks all over the field. Mt scored 34 points that game, but gave up 43.