2013 Division III NCAA Tournament

Started by Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan), May 11, 2012, 07:58:58 AM

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Titan Q

It looked so empty in there it was kind of embarrassing as a D3 fan.  I'm on record as being a huge Salem fan, and I think that staff does an amazing job, but it might be time to find a new venue. 

Gregory Sager

Bob, I'm not so sure it's Salem's fault as much as it may be the fault of the odd format. I think that sac has a point; a lot of fans might've been sitting on their hands in terms of setting aside this weekend for a long road trip when the whole point is that they might have to -- get to, actually -- make two such road trips on consecutive weekends.

And I say that as someone who's never been all that convinced that Salem is an ideal location. I just think that this is an anomalous year, and that it's hard to compare it to other years.
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madzillagd

Being a first time watcher, I was a bit surprised at how empty it was. I was at the Idaho state championships the past two years watching the nephew and there was at least 2-3K at every game and 8k for the finals.  I realize this wasn't the finals but I figured you'd get more than 1500 for the games when there is 8 teams there.

As for the location, I can't speak to the experience at all but as a fan in Sacramento it would have cost me $1200 and 9 hours to get there.  18 hours of travel for 1 guaranteed game was a bit too much to bite off. Would be nice if it was a bit more accessible a location for folks flying in from the West.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: madzillagd on March 22, 2013, 10:53:04 PMWould be nice if it was a bit more accessible a location for folks flying in from the West.

No offense, but a lot of us have been arguing for years that the geographic locales to which they should be catering are the midwest and the northeast. That's where the two largest clumps of D3 schools are located. Somewhere in western Pennsylvania or northern Ohio would be ideal. Any decent-sized (but not too big) venue, really, located between Erie and Toledo.

Put a Final Four in a town like that, and it's within driving distance for the vast majority of D3 fans.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

madzillagd

My point was that it would be nice if it was a short distance from a major airport, regardless of where it is in the country.  From where I was coming - to go on Southwest (the cheapest) would have taken 2 layovers and the closest airport was 180 miles away - so a 3 hour drive once I landed.  Or I could fly on Delta/United/etc. and get to Roanoke after 2 layovers and at the cheapest $1200.  Stick it near a major airport in the Midwest or NE and it cuts the travel time in half and the cost in half. 

woosterbooster

Why, Greg, Wooster would be glad to host! :)

Another thing about the numbers today in Salem; the broadcasters made mention of the fact that they did not clear the gym, even between games two and three.  So, there is at least some overlap in the numbers; even if they're not cooked, a fair amount of people are being counted twice, or more.

When I was down there two years ago, the crowds were pretty good, much larger than what they appeared to be today.  Pretty disappointing.  I thought they'd do well with eight teams going to Salem, and actually wondered if they could handle the numbers.  Turns out that even at Wooster they wouldn't have half filled the joint.

Gregory Sager

I think that at some point a few years ago in one of these Multi-Regional Topics rooms we actually studied all of the potential available arenas in northeastern Ohio. The proximity to Cleveland Hopkins Int'l Airport would be a nice bonus for the likes of madzilla and, in this year's case, Texas-based fans of the Cru.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

John Gleich

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2013, 10:59:26 PM
Quote from: madzillagd on March 22, 2013, 10:53:04 PMWould be nice if it was a bit more accessible a location for folks flying in from the West.

No offense, but a lot of us have been arguing for years that the geographic locales to which they should be catering are the midwest and the northeast. That's where the two largest clumps of D3 schools are located. Somewhere in western Pennsylvania or northern Ohio would be ideal. Any decent-sized (but not too big) venue, really, located between Erie and Toledo.

Put a Final Four in a town like that, and it's within driving distance for the vast majority of D3 fans.

It also doesn't help that there were ZERO ODAC schools in the Elite 8. That could have bumped up the whole conference's interest... and the overall attendance.
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Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Titan Q on March 22, 2013, 10:20:36 PM
It looked so empty in there it was kind of embarrassing as a D3 fan.  I'm on record as being a huge Salem fan, and I think that staff does an amazing job, but it might be time to find a new venue.

Bob - I really don't think this anything to do with Salem... it has EVERYTHING to do with a drawn out schedule and an odd format. In fact, the NCAA and others have been so impressed with how this is going in general (not necessarily attendance) that there are serious talks about looking at an Elite 8 Weekend with a champion at the end.

However, I am in NO way surprised by the attendance for the same reasons stated: when two of these teams head on to Atlanta... people want to set aside their financial committeemen to that endeavor.

If anything, this weekend may have cemented Salem being D3 men's basketball's home because they have made this event seem seamless and easy.
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Pat Coleman

Attendance is paid attendance. 1,629 people paid for tickets to today's session. Nobody said they were all here at the same time. Clearly they weren't.

Agreed that the attendance never looked good, but taking fewer people and spreading them over four games and 10 hours isn't likely to look as good as two games and four hours.
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AO

Pat or Dave, has any other city/conference put in a seriously considered bid lately?  I can't guarantee that a final four in the Twin Cities, Chicago or Boston would be a whole lot better, but it would be fun to at least try another site every twenty years.

cciwrabblerouser

#431
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2013, 10:24:22 PM
Bob, I'm not so sure it's Salem's fault as much as it may be the fault of the odd format. I think that sac has a point; a lot of fans might've been sitting on their hands in terms of setting aside this weekend for a long road trip when the whole point is that they might have to -- get to, actually -- make two such road trips on consecutive weekends.

And I say that as someone who's never been all that convinced that Salem is an ideal location. I just think that this is an anomalous year, and that it's hard to compare it to other years.

i was going to say the exact same thing, but mr. sager beat me to it.  the format does not lend itself to big crowds in salem.  that's why i wondered out loud if going this direction was a good idea or not.

the posted attendance figures may very well have been tickets sold, but too many of those people came disguised as empty seats.  and to send eight teams to salem for anything less than the national championship just make sense when all of yesterday's game would normally be played at on-campus sites, in front of packed houses filled with rowdy and passionate fans.

well, hopefully this one-year experience will be thoroughly evaluated before the powers-that-be decide to do something like this again.

as for locations -- may i suggest columbus or pittsburgh.  one advantage of heading to salem is that the weather is less likely to be nasty in central virginia that it is further north...and certainly cleveland or anywhere close to lake erie could have disastrous results.  that's a tough question -- and i don't blame the good people of salem for the poor turn-out.  they are NOT hosting the national championship this year!

woosterbooster

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2013, 01:48:50 AM
Attendance is paid attendance. 1,629 people paid for tickets to today's session. Nobody said they were all here at the same time. Clearly they weren't.

Agreed that the attendance never looked good, but taking fewer people and spreading them over four games and 10 hours isn't likely to look as good as two games and four hours.

1629 paid admissions over the course of the whole day?  That's horrible.

As for Columbus, Ohio, I'd personally love it, and a great unused facility now sits open all winter: St. John's Arena at Ohio State.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

I am not aware of any serious bids. There was scuttlebutt a few years ago that I think a Texas location had put in a bid or was considering it, but I didn't hear more about that and Salem's bid keeps getting renewed with some ease.

No one at Salem and no one else will disagree that location per transportation is no ideal, but that seems to be outweighed by all of the positives Salem brings to the table.

I will not rehash so many things about this conversation, but I will say, Wooster Booster, that St. John's Arena is not the type of place or location the NCAA is going to consider. 5,000 seat facilities are great... anything bigger is overkill... and being on a D1 campus seems a bit backwards.

Finally, I will leave you on this. I have been amazed this weekend how coaches, players and others talk about Salem like Omaha in the D1 baseball tournament. Even though there is no title here, everyone talks about the fact that the goal is always to get to Salem - not the final four or whatever - and that the city, the venue, etc. are the goal at the beginning of the season... and winning in Salem is important... and seeing Salem... playing in Salem... everything is Salem. Just something I wanted to share.
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Greek Tragedy

Not only am I in the minority here, but I'm probably the only one who thinks this...made easier because Stevens Point wasn't in the Elite 8.  I'm not sure how a fan CAN'T attend the Elite 8.  You get SIX games in addition to an all-star game in just TWO days.  I honestly don't understand when I did attend the Final Four, that fans from other teams didn't stick around or come early to watch the other game...even when their team lost.  It's a great opportunity to see some quality basketball. Yeah, they are totally bummed that their team didn't make the Final, but, especially if you are the 2nd game, why not come early?  You drove or fly all that way, get your money's worth.  And this year, with three extra games, it's tough not to attend.

Yes, on the flip side, you are spending money here instead of the possibility of going to the Final and seeing a Championship hoisted.  But when money comes into play, and what I get for that money spent, I'd almost be tempted to go to Salem and see SEVEN games than spend nearly the same amount and see one championship game.  I would also think this way if Stevens Point was in the Elite 8. 
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