MBB: Northwest Conference

Started by The Show, March 06, 2005, 08:40:16 PM

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A Buc Forever

All this talk about where WW should be ranked, are they legit, why don't they play better teams, etc. is getting tedious. Let's get some info on this board. Was glad to hear from McHugh that he thinks PLU's record is legit and that they are playing well. However, does anybody know why?  It doesn't look like they have any great additions to their roster.  Is it just guys getting older and playing better?  Can we get a report from PLU land?

Pacific has some decent wins and the losses have been to legit teams.  Will they finish in the top 4?

How is UPS looking this year?  Will they compete for a playoff spot or will they be the best of the rest?

What happened to LC?  Are they really going to finish in the bottom half of the league? 

LF and Willamette--these programs used to compete at the top of the league. What is going on?

Exactly how bad is Portland Bible and why do NWC like beating them up so much?

(509)Rat

Whitworth up 54-46 at the half

A Buc Forever

Solid win by WW. Love this team. Very deep and quick.

Pinecone_Curtain

Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 06, 2016, 01:24:39 AM
Solid win by WW. Love this team. Very deep and quick.

Yeah Logie could just rotate guards through to keep them fresh throughout the game. WW has 4 guards who would start for any team in the conference--and most D3 teams nationally (Love, Staudacher, Grant & Roach). Really nice weapon when facing a team that presses so much, plus Valle and Julian can handle the ball too. WW is too disciplined and veteran to turn the ball over a ton vs. the press (only had 11 TO's tonight). A big team that can push them around inside is the team that will beat WW. These teams meet back up February 2. Should be a good one in W2. Last year WW laid an egg down there, hopefully they come to play this year.

(509)Rat

Whitman probably played their best game all year. Statistically, the biggest difference in this game is that a higher % of Whitworth's shots were from 3 and of those, they converted at a higher %. A small edge on the boards, and more assists were about the only other major categories that Whitworth led. Whitman's bench even scored more points than Whitworth's which was probably the most surprising to me since I thought the back-up Whitworth guards made a much bigger impact than anyone subbing in for the Missionaries.

The headline should read "Whitman plays best game of season and still can't beat Pirates."

We won't know what Logie could have built from scratch, but you can't ask for much more. He continues to out-coach Bridgeland and that's all he has to do in this league. Anyone else remember those idiot UPS fans who tried to convince themselves and everyone else that Lunt was fantastic and they weren't winning only because they had Bridgeland's players? Where did they all go?

89Pirate

The question for Blackhawks is this:

Did Whitworth beat a team making us worthy of our #2 ranking?  Or just beat the team he loves?

Whitman is a good team, and I foresee them A) ranked and B) in the Conf Tourney and C) probably an at-large at the end, so don't worry be happy !

It was a fun trip to Vegas last week as well  :)

A Buc Forever

Rat and other long time observers of NWC basketball,

Are these the two most talented teams in the conference at the same time since it went D3?  I did not see UPS in the Chase Curtis days and I know WW and LC had some good teams then.  The current WM is very athletic and fun to watch. Like Pinecone says, we have 4 guards that would start on any team in the country and I think Sears is under-appreciated--and that is not even talking about Valle and Jurlina. I thought it was a great game last night. Looking forward to the rematch.

To give you some perspective on Roach, my younger son's friend did not start on Roach's AAU team. He's averaging 18 for Pomona Pitzer. 



(509)Rat

Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 06, 2016, 01:29:08 PM
Rat and other long time observers of NWC basketball,

Are these the two most talented teams in the conference at the same time since it went D3?  I did not see UPS in the Chase Curtis days and I know WW and LC had some good teams then.  The current WM is very athletic and fun to watch. Like Pinecone says, we have 4 guards that would start on any team in the country and I think Sears is under-appreciated--and that is not even talking about Valle and Jurlina. I thought it was a great game last night. Looking forward to the rematch.

To give you some perspective on Roach, my younger son's friend did not start on Roach's AAU team. He's averaging 18 for Pomona Pitzer. 

I think the 03-04, 05-06 and 08-09 UPS teams are up there (we all know 03-04 was the best right Blackhawks?), and I still don't know if the Michael Taylor team that lost to Wooster wasn't the best team Whitworth has had, ever (just went cold against a very good team, on their home court, at the wrong time). I certainly think this is Whitman's best team since Bridgeland got there. He might not have anyone as good as David Michaels, but as a whole I think they are much better. I think this is Logie's best team as well, with 2011-12 (Lasisi and Friedt's last season) being the main competition. Overall gaurd play is better this year, they have forwards that match up with Loofburrow limiting his effectiveness from 3 IMO, and Sears could at least body Felix which no other team was able to do anytime I saw him play in his last 2 seasons.

Pinecone_Curtain

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 06, 2016, 03:03:41 PM
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 06, 2016, 01:29:08 PM
Rat and other long time observers of NWC basketball,

Are these the two most talented teams in the conference at the same time since it went D3?  I did not see UPS in the Chase Curtis days and I know WW and LC had some good teams then.  The current WM is very athletic and fun to watch. Like Pinecone says, we have 4 guards that would start on any team in the country and I think Sears is under-appreciated--and that is not even talking about Valle and Jurlina. I thought it was a great game last night. Looking forward to the rematch.

To give you some perspective on Roach, my younger son's friend did not start on Roach's AAU team. He's averaging 18 for Pomona Pitzer. 

I think the 03-04, 05-06 and 08-09 UPS teams are up there (we all know 03-04 was the best right Blackhawks?), and I still don't know if the Michael Taylor team that lost to Wooster wasn't the best team Whitworth has had, ever (just went cold against a very good team, on their home court, at the wrong time). I certainly think this is Whitman's best team since Bridgeland got there. He might not have anyone as good as David Michaels, but as a whole I think they are much better. I think this is Logie's best team as well, with 2011-12 (Lasisi and Friedt's last season) being the main competition. Overall gaurd play is better this year, they have forwards that match up with Loofburrow limiting his effectiveness from 3 IMO, and Sears could at least body Felix which no other team was able to do anytime I saw him play in his last 2 seasons.

No question 10-11 was WW's best team in the D3 era, but two best in the NWC at the same time? This year is right up there with 05-06 IMO. Some of those UPS teams with Antwan Williams, Zach McVey, Chase Curtiss & Jason Foster were so tough, but WW had a pretty solid team at the time too (Williams (future league MVP)/Pecht (the league MVP)/Jones/Young).

On a different note, I wish there were some Pacific and PLU posters here. Pac might be a bit of a let-down game for both Whits, and they've looked pretty good this year. It wouldn't totally surprise me if PAC knocks off one of the Whits this weekend. PLU is also bringing some heat early this season--what's up with them?

TryMeTeam

#6384
Quote from: A Buc Forever on January 06, 2016, 01:29:08 PM

On a different note, I wish there were some Pacific and PLU posters here. Pac might be a bit of a let-down game for both Whits, and they've looked pretty good this year. It wouldn't totally surprise me if PAC knocks off one of the Whits this weekend. PLU is also bringing some heat early this season--what's up with them?

Been watching and reading for some time, but not much to report on from my OR teams.  With all the talk dominating on the Whits, it is pretty boring for an OR fan. 

LF, GF and Will, well, they are pretty boring too, going a combined 11-21 and 0-6 in league.  Enough said.

LC is definitely down, but I am not ready to count them out yet.  They have struggled getting to figure their team out after the loss of key players, but are ready to make some noise.  I see them as a possible challenger for the 4th spot if they can get going soon.

Pac is probably the most improved team in the league this year.  I have only seen them once live and once on the net, but they now have an inside presence (lacking for the last...ever), actually looking to get the ball inside.  Their guards are much more athletic and they are fun to watch. 

LC is down, Pac is unproven, kind of hard to get on here and spar with you guys!

A Buc Forever

TMT,

Good to hear from you. I agree it's sad how low the Oregon schools have sunk lately.  Not sure what is going on.  I agree with what Playball says about LF, they don't seem to be recruiting players that can compete in the NWC.  Hopefully the league gets a little more balanced in the next few years.  It used to be almost impossible for WW to win all their road games in Oregon.  Now the Oregon schools can't beat WW even with the 5 on 8 advantage.  ;D






blackhawks4

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 06, 2016, 06:07:27 AM
The headline should read "Whitman plays best game of season and still can't beat Pirates."

Haha...keep 'em above the belt, Rat.  Anytime you allow a team to shoot 57% from the floor, its NOT your best game.  By the way, WW deserved to shoot every bit of 57% from the floor (I actually think I made the exact same statement last year).  WW took the free buckets (layups and wide open jumpers) when WMN tried to force tempo, when WMN was in zone--it was just ugly, and when WMN tried to play man-to-man, WW was patient until WMN made a mistake.   WMN plays a high risk/high reward game, and I thought that played into WW's strength.  WW is composed and hard to rattle.  They were patient and let WMN's defense beat themselves.  57%.

Quote from: (509)Rat on January 06, 2016, 06:07:27 AM
We won't know what Logie could have built from scratch, but you can't ask for much more. He continues to out-coach Bridgeland and that's all he has to do in this league.

Logie is impressive.  Very impressive.  His team plays with such discipline.  But he needs to take this team to the Elite 8, and dare I say the Final 4 before the major kudos come.

It took Bridgeland only 3 years at UPS to win the conference, and I don't think anybody on the board thought it would take Bridgeland 6 to still be chasing his first...but he also is taking what used to be the laughing stock of the NWC to from worst to well...2nd for the last 3 or 4 years.

Best teams in NWC in recent memory--I think you have to say the Scott Davis L & C teams (I think '00--thought they were final 4 but maybe elite 8), UPS Bridgeland led elite 8 team (i think it was Curtiss, McVey, Williams--i think they beat D1 Riverside that year too???), & Michael Taylor WW team.

Quote from: 89Pirate on January 06, 2016, 10:58:20 AM
The question for Blackhawks is this:

Did Whitworth beat a team making us worthy of our #2 ranking?  Or just beat the team he loves?

Pirate, we can't beat the horse anymore.  No.  They are not worthy of #2.  They beat WMN, a top 25 team.  Segway, this is a good Whitworth team (better than the last few years).  They have 3 first-teamers, but I truthfully do think they lack "star-power."  Don't get me wrong, all 3 of them are solid...very solid. The whole team is solid.  I just worry about their ability to beat somebody who doesn't make mistakes, like the midwest/east coast, big grind it out teams.

blackhawks4

#6387
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 02, 2016, 12:03:28 PM
An ambitious NWC coach who can get the money together for such a trip could fly into Chicago or Cleveland or the Twin Cities, pick up three really good opponents over a four- or five-day stay, and both get a feel for how midwestern D3 hoops is played and possibly burnish his team's Pool C credentials.

Sometimes I really wonder what this board would do without the amazing ideas I throw out, but this one might take the cake.  How about we make Whitworth play their game at Whitman, but then we just give them 12 wins for the rest of their conference games??  Lets face it, nobody else has a chance.  All the travel money saved by WW not playing goes into a GoFundMe account, which can be utilized for a Whitman/Whitworth road trip to Wisconsin and somewhere back east next year.  With his free time, Logie can start scheduling the games now.

Big Remaining Questions
1.  Will WW go undefeated? My gut says I think it benefits them to lose at WMN.  Just, in the event that you believe in statistics, if these two teams line up 3 times, are the odds there that they win all 3?
2.  Can WMN  run the table? Or, will somebody get them?  Whitman hasn't established that consistent untouchable dominance on a night-in-night-out basis like WW has.  But in my opinion, WMN has to run the table to get a share of the title.
3.  PLU? I'm confused.

Lastly, while fresh in everyone's mind, how about the Whitman players? McDonald in my opinion is the best scorer in the league.  If I need a bucket, he's the guy I would want with the ball.  I am mystified that he only took 6 shots against WW? 

Tim Howell is looking like a first teamer.  Evan Martin is consistent.

Whitman also has a freshman, Austin Butler, who fills up the stat sheet.  He is hands-down the best individual defender I have seen in recent years.  He locks up offensive players. Great rebounder too.  He's a triple-double threat--as a 6'3" guard

D O.C.


Pinecone_Curtain

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 06, 2016, 11:01:50 PM
Sometimes I really wonder what this board would do without the amazing ideas I throw out, but this one might take the cake.  How about we make Whitworth play their game at Whitman, but then we just give them 12 wins for the rest of their conference games??  Lets face it, nobody else has a chance.  All the travel money saved by WW not playing goes into a GoFundMe account, which can be utilized for a Whitman/Whitworth road trip to Wisconsin and somewhere back east next year.  With his free time, Logie can start scheduling the games now.

Big Remaining Questions
1.  Will WW go undefeated? My gut says I think it benefits them to lose at WMN.  Just, in the event that you believe in statistics, if these two teams line up 3 times, are the odds there that they win all 3?
2.  Can WMN  run the table? Or, will somebody get them?  Whitman hasn't established that consistent untouchable dominance on a night-in-night-out basis like WW has.  But in my opinion, WMN has to run the table to get a share of the title.
3.  PLU? I'm confused.

Quote from: blackhawks4 on January 06, 2016, 09:39:47 PM
By the way, WW deserved to shoot every bit of 57% from the floor (I actually think I made the exact same statement last year).  WW took the free buckets (layups and wide open jumpers) when WMN tried to force tempo, when WMN was in zone--it was just ugly, and when WMN tried to play man-to-man, WW was patient until WMN made a mistake.   WMN plays a high risk/high reward game, and I thought that played into WW's strength.  WW is composed and hard to rattle.  They were patient and let WMN's defense beat themselves.  57%.

Logie is impressive.  Very impressive.  His team plays with such discipline.

Unlike WW against WM, I think I'm a little bit rattled. Blackhawk made a lot of sense tonight in just about everything he posted. What gives?  ;D

Seriously though, Blackhawks Big Remaining Questions are pretty accurate, as is his analysis of the WW vs. WM game. In some ways, WM's style plays right into WW. It takes a disciplined team to beat the press, and WW is the only night-in and night-out disciplined team in the league. In fact, I can only think of maybe 1 or 2 TO's due to the pressure last night.

I actually disagree that this is Bridge's best team in W2. Maybe it was just an off night, but WM never really seemed to threaten the Pirates. WW had a pretty comfortable lead all game except for that one run early in the 2nd half. Even when WM tied it, WW then went on a big run to cruise the rest of the way.

WM lays an egg every year somewhere unexpected, so PLU has to be the favorite for that this year right? Meanwhile it's hard to see any team in the NWC beating WW (except maybe @WM) because even when WW doesn't shoot well, they always are tough on the defensive end.

It would be great to see the Whits travel back to the midwest to take on some of those powers. There are direct flights from Spokane to Chicago, and a bunch of great teams are within 3 hours from Chicago (Calvin, Hope, Benedictine, Trine, Augustana, Elmhurst, and Chicago). Why not set up a little yearly tournament where one year WW & WM go to play 2 or 3 of those schools, then in the odd years those schools reciprocate? This almost seems too easy.