Luther gymnasium improvements announced
https://luthernorse.com/news/2023/11/10/general-luther-college-receives-2-million-gift-from-birkestrand-family-for-regents-center-renovations.aspx[/img]

That would be worth a road trip up to Decorah.  Those renderings look nice. 

I was curious to see how the penalty yard numbers correlated to what was being discuss on here about perceptions around the league. From the stats on the NCAA website I was able to find number of penalties and penalty yards per game (I work very early mornings and often have nothing to do).

Central - 36 - 36.3 yds/g
BVU - 38 - 36.3 yds/g
Coe - 41 - 41.4 yds/g
Luther - 52 - 47 yds/g
Wartburg - 59 - 47 yds/g
Simpson - 51 - 51.2 yds/g
NWU - 63 - 60.4 yds/g
ud - 67 - 65.5 yds/g
Loras - 64 - 69.6 yds/g

My first takeaway from this was there must be something in the Dubuque water that causes penalties but I think that will require further investigation. Other than that I think it would be fair to say that ud gets penalized more than the other top teams in the league. Now I think it would be an interesting debate to see why that is the case. Obviously I have a very biased view on this *pulls my purple and gold shaded glasses over my eyes* so I would tell you that in my experience as a player and a fan that the team up the street from Loras was always seen as an undisciplined team, but I think that it would be more helpful to see these numbers over the past few years to see if this is a trend and then, if it is why is this the case?

I would imagine every fan will have a different theory and would be able to jumble numbers around to "prove" their point. 

I have been convinced in the past UD was getting screwed by the refs.  Then I took a long look in the mirror and realized, these officials are getting paid damn near nothing and are doing it for the love of the game and don't need me yelling at them from the sidelines.  (that was after the 2019 Wartburg game that I did some soul searching).  I also realize as fans all of us will think at different times the refs are biased and not calling things fairly for their team. That is the nature of the game. 

I think fandom colors things so you see what you want to see.  Someone can point out something they saw a team do and how that is awful and a fan of that team can point out something they saw your team do that was exactly the same so therefor your team is the one that is awful.  Zweifel didn't shake hands...Willis stormed all the way out to the hash marks and grabbed an official on the shoulder...Helminiak spiked his headset into the ground while yelling at the officials.  Player X did this...Player Y did that.  It goes on and on. 

One thing I have been curious about in regards to penalties are if teams that are losing badly get a pass on calls.  A few times the last couple of seasons I have seen an o-line player tackle a d-line player while the ref is watching and no flag comes out.  My suspicion is "the game is out of reach, lets just get out of here".

I will agree UD can be an undisciplined team.  Something my son-in-law and I talk about right before kickoff of every game is you can count on 2 or 3 stupid plays from UD.  A late hit out of bounds, block in the back on a kickoff.  Things like that.  Those are things UD is guilty of, the refs spot that, and rightly throw the flag.  Frustrating to watch and it hasn't been cleaned up.  In that case you can say UD is an undisciplined team.   Where I get frustrated at times, is all...and I mean ALL teams, whether it is players or coaches get on the refs from time to time.  Too often, I feel that refs will throw unsportsmanlike penalties when a UD player tries to argue his case when compared to other teams.  But like has been noted on here, as fans we can see things through blue or purple, or orange tinted glasses.

Quote from: doolittledog on November 06, 2023, 01:28:06 pm

Quote from: DriftlessDuhawk on November 06, 2023, 12:53:18 pm

Quote from: doolittledog on November 06, 2023, 10:46:36 am

Thank you MediaGuy.  Sometimes I figure I'm looking too closely as a fan and am not seeing things as a neutral would see it.  Your comments align with what I was seeing.  And the ref had barely got the words out over the PA and they all took off in a sprint to get out of thre.  To further note what I think what you were getting at, Dubuque sure seems to get personal foul penalties that other schools never seem to get called against them.  I'm talking about simple things like throwing your arms up in the air gets flagged.  Dubuque got a 4th quarter unsportsmanlike  penalty on a player talking to the ref at the same time a Coe player was at the Dubuque sideline taunting anyone near him while the rest of the Coe team was huddled up on their sideline. Coe didn't get flagged while Dubuque did.  It gets frustrating to see one team held to a different standard as others.

I can confidently tell you that the league office is very well aware of how ud plays the game of football and is actively looking for unsportsmanlikes and personal fouls. Not saying that it is every player in the program but they have developed a reputation over the years and the coaches in the rest of the league have voiced their opinions about the matter. I have heard from people at multiple schools in the league that they have been reached out to by the head official at the league office prior to playing ud saying that they will be calling the game tighter due to the nature of these games. Do with that information what you will...

Perhaps that explains the number of times I have watched an official staring at an opposing player taunting a UD player and when the UD player shoves them away a flag flies and UD gets penalized.  You can't have 2 sets of rules.  That is disturbing that the league office is doing this.       

Not trying to pick a fight here, but while I did say that I was critical of "how" the play got called on Saturday, I do think it was the right call.  As to your comment about having 2 sets of rules.  I have been around the ARC since the late 90's and I have only seen a few "unsportsmanlike" things that stand out.

I will preface this by saying I understand Wartburg's coach was ejected from a game while leading by 30+ points and I don't think that was very sportsmanlike, but Wartburg and their HC should have a little extra "monitoring" of the sideline to make sure those types of things don't happen again. 

Incident 1: Last play of first half of Wartburg game in 1999, Wartburg leading comfortably, and their starting QB was hit late out of bounds on Wartburg sideline.  General pushing and shoving ensues but is under control from 2 officials there...The ENTIRE opposing team left their sideline headed  to Wartburg's side of the field in what I can only assume is an effort to start a fight.  Coaches from both sides have to physically restrain players from a physical fight at halftime. 

Incident 2: Wartburg homecoming in 2012, Wartburg and visiting team play a tight game, which Wartburg wins on a missed field goal to end the game.  Afterwards, visiting head coach runs toward the locker room actively avoiding shaking hands with the Wartburg coaches.  Wartburg HC chases visiting coach down to shake hands, verbal confruntation ensues.

Both times the visiting team was University of Dubuque, under different head coaches, and possibly different Athletic Directors...so maybe there's a bit of an earned reputation that comes from the program as a whole and not just a hot-headed coach or player.
 
I'm sure there have been times in the past that other teams have thought that Wartburg, Central or Coe have had problems as well.  But when I chat with other people in the ARC...Coaches, SIDs, Media, (not fans) about who is the least disciplined, and sportsmanlike in the ARC, it seems that everyone I've talked to says UD. 
 
So wondering why UD seems to be treated differently, kind of sounds like the parents of the disruptive kid in class, blaming the school board for their kid always being sent to the principal's office. 

Maybe that kids needs a bit more discipline at home so the school doesn't have to do it for you.

Not trying to poke the bear, just giving you a non UD perspective.

I appreciate this.  I have said before I have blue tinted glasses. 

When talking about UD, as for 1999, that is a long time ago.  Different coach, different AD, different lots of things. 

As for that 2012 UD/Wartburg game, At the end of the game we were upset with Zweifel when we saw him walking away and thought he should have done better.  He said later he wished he had handled it better.  I have never seen him do that since that game, but for having done it that time, 11 years later he still gets called out for it.   

Here we can also get into perceptions.  Often on here Wartburg has been described as a team with swagger.  UD as out of control. From that 2012 UD/Wartburg game, UD TE Miles Hookstead, after getting tackled into the Wartburg bench was put into a bear hug and not let back onto the field by a Wartburg player.  In full view of the ref that did not throw a flag.  I was watching from the UD stands.  Also in that game after the majority of calls against the Knights the refs would get surrounded by Wartburg players yelling.  There was twice that F-bombs were dropped that we could hear.  No flags.  This was brought up on this board back then.  For fans of one team their players are passionate, for fans of the other team they are unhinged and out of control.       

 

 

Quote from: doolittledog on November 05, 2023, 01:52:52 pm

Interesting game at Dubuque yesterday.  Game goes into overtime.  Dubuque makes a field goal to take a 3 point lead.  Dubuque makes a stop on 4th down to make what they thought was the winning stop.  After the players are all on the field celebrating, the officials throw a flag for illegal substitution.  On the next play, Coe running back gets tackled and fumbles.  The ball goes into the endzone and is recovered by Coe.  The official right there immediately signals the runner was down and motions for 2nd down.  The officials announce, the call on the field is the runner was down.  The officials then huddle, and come out of the huddle and say the call on the field is a Coe fumble, Coe recovers in the endzone, Coe wins.  Then the whole crew sprinted off the field. 

Devastating end to the game.  Even as a Dubuque fan, I think that was bad officiating.

I was watching that game on the internet and you could see the side judge make 3 separate calls on the last play.  It really reminded me of the interception/TD a few years back when the NFL officials were on strike.  I think in the end it was the right call, but it seems officials are in a hurry to make a signal instead of getting it right the first time.  The side judge first signaled touchback (waved his left arm up and down) saying the ball was fumbled out of the endzone.  then he immediately marked the spot of the fumble and signaled "2" with his hand calling it down at the 1 and 2nd down.  Then after a short officials meeting the referee ruled it a touchdown.

I think it is easier for the crowd to accept if you throw your beanbag to mark the spot of the fumble, then immediately meet as a crew to make sure you get the call right.  At least that way there isn't the emotional rollercoaster of going through 3 different calls.

And on a side note, I have officiated at the high school level in the past, and it seems like officials have such thinner skin than they had 10-15 years ago.  The rules used to be pretty simple, don't show up the officials, don't attack them personally, and don't use a few magic words.  Other than that you were good talking to an official from the sideline.  Also it seems like officials are waaaay to worried about the crowd than they should be.  When I officiated, I was barely aware there was a crowd at all, it's not my job to listen/react to them.  I've just noticed some officials looking over their shoulders at the crowd when they're getting critical or glaring at the pressbox if there is a scoreboard/clock issue. 

When it comes down to it, everyone has a job to do.  Players play, coaches put their kids in the best position to win (which includes riding the officials from time to time) and crowds support their team (with cheers or boos from time to time).  Its not always easy, but when everyone just does their job, we can all go home proud of a good game and with the respect earned.

Thank you MediaGuy.  Sometimes I figure I'm looking too closely as a fan and am not seeing things as a neutral would see it.  Your comments align with what I was seeing.  And the ref had barely got the words out over the PA and they all took off in a sprint to get out of thre.  To further note what I think what you were getting at, Dubuque sure seems to get personal foul penalties that other schools never seem to get called against them.  I'm talking about simple things like throwing your arms up in the air gets flagged.  Dubuque got a 4th quarter unsportsmanlike  penalty on a player talking to the ref at the same time a Coe player was at the Dubuque sideline taunting anyone near him while the rest of the Coe team was huddled up on their sideline. Coe didn't get flagged while Dubuque did.  It gets frustrating to see one team held to a different standard as others.   

Interesting game at Dubuque yesterday.  Game goes into overtime.  Dubuque makes a field goal to take a 3 point lead.  Dubuque makes a stop on 4th down to make what they thought was the winning stop.  After the players are all on the field celebrating, the officials throw a flag for illegal substitution.  On the next play, Coe running back gets tackled and fumbles.  The ball goes into the endzone and is recovered by Coe.  The official right there immediately signals the runner was down and motions for 2nd down.  The officials announce, the call on the field is the runner was down.  The officials then huddle, and come out of the huddle and say the call on the field is a Coe fumble, Coe recovers in the endzone, Coe wins.  Then the whole crew sprinted off the field. 

Devastating end to the game.  Even as a Dubuque fan, I think that was bad officiating. 

Final 2 weeks of the season.

11/04/2023

Coe @ Dubuque  1pm
Wartburg @ NWU  1pm
Simpson @ Loras  1pm
BVU @ Central  1pm
-----------------------
Lyon @ Luther  1pm

In the Stan Zweifel era at UD, Dubuque is 9-5 against Coe and has gone 8-2 over the last 10 games against the Kohawks.  Dubuque has gone 6-1 at Coe, with that only loss back in Stan's first year back in 2009.  BUT, Dubuque is 3-4 against Coe when the games are played in Dubuque.  This years game is in Dubuque.  I'm hoping to see Dubuque even their home record against Coe while moving their over record to 10-5 during the Zweifel era.       

Big week for ARC games

10/28/2023
Loras @ BVU  1pm
Luther @ Coe  1pm
Central @ Wartburg  1pm
Dubuque @ Simpson 4pm

I suspect most eyes will be on Central/Wartburg for the battle at the top of the conference.  Luckily, after everybody gets to watch their team play, they can tune into the Dubuque/Simpson game at 4pm