SLIAC

Started by watchdog, March 08, 2004, 02:18:32 PM

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NO RESPECT

Jdoug and Hopefan, you make a good point, but maryville is a great team, and the players listed are great players that play on decent teams. Is the award best player or best team player?
Defense is a full time job, and not a part time practice.

DukeDevil

Laughable. Maryville's average margin of victory is +26 over conference opponents including 35 & 42 point wins over the #4 team Blackburn, 21 & 41 point wins over #3 Fontbonne and 14 & 19 point wins over #2 Greenville, and yet Coach Dubb you do not think they have a single player worthy of your top 5 list? 

In addition, let's take a look at how your selections did against the top team in the conference, I believe a fairly strong measure of a player's POY worthiness:

Banal - 5-17 fg's (29%) 5 to's
Gardner - 8-31 fg's (26%)  18 to's
Lowe - 6-20 fg's (30%) 7 to's
Speers - 6-17 fg's (35%) (although did have 10 rebs)
Shipley - 12-31 (39%) 13 to's
Fisher - 16-22 (73%) 21 rebs

Based on these numbers, perhaps Fisher is a legitimate or the only candidate, but I do not see any numbers posted by the other players which make them worthy of POY.  I am not proposing Wilhelm or Wemlinger deserve the POY award, but given the teams dominance, surely they are worthy of top 5 consideration.

hopefan

I would say the MOP is indeed the best player - my comment was more to wonder if one of the Maryville ladies didn't belong in a list of 5, and on the first team all conference, as compared to being the individual MOP

lets look at some numbers - conference games

player   team  min/game   pts/game   reb/game   asst/game   assist/to

Speer    Prin       31                14             11               1.9               .7

Shiply   BC          32               14                6                1.3              .4

Fisher     EC        37                18              14               1.1               .3

Gardner  EC         38               13               4                 2.4              .5

Banal      GC         27               14               3                1.1               .5

Lowe      Mac        35               18               5                 1.4              .2

Wemliger  MU       24               13               5                  2                 1.3


while the numbers are similar in most instances - note
1) extend Wemliger's numbers to 32 minutes per game reather than the 24 she gets, and her scoring is at 17  -  extend it to the 35 that Lowe gets, and she's at 19 - extend it to the 37 or 38 that the EC ladies get and she's over 20

2) also check out the assist to Turnovers ratio   Lowe is LOW - why?  because she leads the conference in turnovers - BY FAR - with 104!!  And who is second - Gardner with 78.....


Just by the numbers, I'm inclined to say the BEST player in the conference is a tossup between Fisher, Speer, and Wemlinger....

The only thing not to be liked in Florida is no D3 hoops!!!

NO RESPECT

Again, I say that Maryville TEAM is the best, which also includes team defense! No one is knocking any player from Maryville, as we all know that they can play, but when I hear POY, I look at a player that can take over the game at any point. and it's one of four people:

Speer, Lowe, Fischer and Shipley.

If you replaced one of these four with either of those two MU players, what would their numbers be with other great players around them? Do you think the MU players would put up better numbers not having the supporting cast.

This in no way is to be taken as disrespect, as MU is the cream of the crop. And they have many quality players, and yes, one or both of those young ladies could easily be 1st team all conference. That was not the argument.
Defense is a full time job, and not a part time practice.

jdoug2

I'm not saying someone from Maryville should be player of the year, but someone on that team has to be a top 5. And there is no way someone with one conference win can be P.O.Y.  My vote would be for Fisher.

I'm not putting Fontbonne in Maryville's class, but both teams keep their individual stats down by limiting minutes. I think Heather Mc Allister is Fontbonne's best player. She average just over 10 pts and 7 reb but only plays 21 minutes. She also plays lock down defense.
Go GRIFFINS

sully309

I believe Maryville deserves and will get some representatives on the all-conference teams, but as far as the Player of the Year discussion goes, I have to believe the conversation begins and ends with Nicole Fisher. I've noticed several posted try to logically play this out, and they all end up with the same name. I think it's good to discuss things like this, but I've seen every team, most of them twice and that's my conclusion.

D3Hoops recognized her as 3rd team all-region last year even though the conference didn't name her player of the year. The award should go to the best player in the league. Sure, players should be given some credit for helping their team win, but isn't someone doing that by putting up 18 and 14 a game? Fisher has been amazingly consistent all year. If you want to look at how she did against the best teams, look at the combined stats in the 2 Maryville games:

Fisher: 16-22 FG, 44 pts, 21 reb
Wilhelm: 2-10 FG, 9 pts, 9 reb
Wemlinger: 6-19 FG, 14 pts, 6 reb

Maybe it's because I've been lucky enough to see her play over 50 times, but it's not an accident that the best players on opposing teams always have bad nights against her. Shipley was 8-for-27 in 2 games, Speer was 6-for-16, and you can see the Maryville stats above. All players are very good, which is why I mention them. It is out of the ordinary for them to be held to these numbers, so let's give credit to the defense they are facing.

I don't buy into the notion that Speer gets little support from her teammates. Bushong is a good shooter, McDaniel is a nice player inside and Wheeler did some nice things as a guard.

I hope also that Brittany Gardner and Brandi Payne are considered as well. They have been troopers all year.

OK, so you're probably wondering who would be on my 1st team. Well, I don't get to vote on these things officially, but mine would look like this:

Fisher (Eureka) (POY)
Bergheger (Maryville)
McAllister (Fontbonne)
Banal (Greenville)
Speer (Principia)

NO RESPECT

There is no way that Lowe and Shipley should be left off of this list!
Defense is a full time job, and not a part time practice.

hopefan

the conversation makes me wish I had paid more attention during the season...  I do have a high amount of respect for Eureka SID's thoughts in that he has seen all teams twice given his position....
The only thing not to be liked in Florida is no D3 hoops!!!

NO RESPECT

Let's wait and see what the coaches in the SLIAC think, since they will get the last laugh. Big game for several skools today.

Defense is a full time job, and not a part time practice.

furbug

#564
Webster won today 71-68 in double overtime over Eureka. Congratulations are due both teams and coaches, however, for a gutsy, hard fought game in which both teams were playing hard to win just for pride. Nice to see.  :)

hopefan

Holy Mackeral!!!   I was told by Yjack that the Eureka coaching staff was pretty upset over the officiating at their game at Webster - I just looked at the boxscore and can see why...

Webster 18 fouls, Eureka 29
Webster 41 free throws attempted, Eureka 12
Eureka had 9 more Field goals than Webster and still lost......

Eureka's Nicole Fischer was one of several to foul out - must have been on the bench quite a bit in foul trouble - got only 6 field goal attempts, and made all of them!!!!
The only thing not to be liked in Florida is no D3 hoops!!!

d3hooper

Very Proud to see Webster come out and win yesterday.  I dont know if the refs were bad or if there were just a lot of fouls happening. Never take a win from a team and blame refs. Webster played hard as did Eureka and Webster came out on top. You can blame refs all year long on questionable calls, yesterday one team was more aggressive, the other shot more 3's. Of coarse you will have more fouls called when another team is more agrressive.

Katy Meyer for new comer of the year!!!!  Wake up guys

y_jack_lok

#567
Quote from: hopefan on February 24, 2008, 11:02:52 AM
Holy Mackeral!!!   I was told by Yjack that the Eureka coaching staff was pretty upset over the officiating at their game at Webster

What I said was that Eureka's head coach was extremely upset about the fifth foul called on Nicole Fisher and that one of the assistant coaches stepped in to keep her from getting a technical. From my angle I couldn't really judge the call, but the coach had a much better look at it than I did, so she may have been justified in being upset, especially given that it was her best player fouling out at the end of a close game.

However, I agree with our guest, d3hooper, that in spite of the foul discrepancy, the officials were not the reason for the outcome of the game. Eureka did commit quite a lot of obvious fouls and the officials did ther job and called them.

hopefan

Yjack, D3hooper  -  If I'm being accused, I DID NOT say the officials cost Eureka game, I just said I was told the coach was upset, and by looking at the FTA discrepancy and FG discrepancy, I can see why.....
The only thing not to be liked in Florida is no D3 hoops!!!

y_jack_lok

Hopefan, would I accuse you of anything? Of course not! I was just clarifying that the situation I described to you was specifically related to the 5th foul against Nicole Fisher. I never said that the entire Eureka coaching staff was upset with the officiating in general -- altough they could have been, given the stats you cite. But I stand by my observation that "Eureka did commit a lot of obvious fouls and the officials did their job and called them."