FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

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sigma one

#28275
badgerwarhawk, et al.  It seems early to discuss the Monon Bell, but since you've asked . . .Up to 1932 and the beginning of the presentation of the Bell, Wabash led the series 19-16-3.  The three ties were all 0-0 (1909, '11, '19).  The first Bell Game was also a 0-0 tie, as was the next tie, in 1935.  So the first five ties in the all-time series were all 0-0.  It was a different game in those days.  Wabash leads the entire series 58-53-9, and the Bell Game series 39-37-6.  Fourteen of the first 28 games (up to 1932) were shutouts, nine by Wabash and 5 by DePauw.
     Wally, I really value your knowledge of Wabash football history.  There is a reference on the DPU site that  the initial rules stipulated that in case of a tie each school would have the Bell for six months.  Since the first game was a tie, neither team took possession  After that, I've never heard that the time with the Bell was ever split. Perhaps someone can clarify--wabashsid?   This is a point of Bell history worth knowing for certain.   I don't know what happened in '35 when the teams again tied 0-0; was the Bell awarded to each team for six months?  Wabash won in '34.  Did they keep the Bell in '35 for the whole year?  The next tie was not until 1956, so there is a lot of time in there for the rule to be changed, if indeed at some point it was.  But the '35 game may be crucial to the point.   If it was split, six months each after the 1935 tie, maybe  at some time in the intervening years the schools decided that the previous year's winner would retain possession.  I've never heard this, however.   
     My favorite curiosity about the Bell series is that the first DPU team to win possession of the Bell, in 1933 by a score of 14-0, was coached by Gaumey Neal, a Wabash alumnus (class of 1920).  That DePauw team was undefeated and unscored upon that year.  Wabash won the next year, 1934, breaking a long DPU  consecutive game winning streak.   Cheers.


ADL70

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wally_wabash

#28278
Quote from: sigma one on July 31, 2014, 05:08:36 PM
     Wally, I really value your knowledge of Wabash football history.  There is a reference on the DPU site that  the initial rules stipulated that in case of a tie each school would have the Bell for six months.  Since the first game was a tie, neither team took possession  After that, I've never heard that the time with the Bell was ever split. Perhaps someone can clarify--wabashsid?   This is a point of Bell history worth knowing for certain.   I don't know what happened in '35 when the teams again tied 0-0; was the Bell awarded to each team for six months?  Wabash won in '34.  Did they keep the Bell in '35 for the whole year?  The next tie was not until 1956, so there is a lot of time in there for the rule to be changed, if indeed at some point it was.  But the '35 game may be crucial to the point.   If it was split, six months each after the 1935 tie, maybe  at some time in the intervening years the schools decided that the previous year's winner would retain possession.  I've never heard this, however. 

I consulted the Monon Memories to try and get an answer.  The 1935 clip doesn't say what the fate of the Monon Bell was after the tie.  There aren't any clues in the 1934 clip either, other than we know that Wabash won 7-6 and had possession of the Bell headed into 1935.  Now, in the 1936 clip, there is a line in the voice over (at about 41 seconds) that says "three men made sure the Bell would stay at Wabash".  So, the Bell either took its six months at Wabash prior to the game, the Bell never left Wabash after 1935, or the narration is just kind of generalizing (less likely, because Ken Owen did a fantastic job with these and this sort of detail, ownership of the Bell, isn't something to be glossed over).  Speaking of, Ken Owen might actually be a guy who can definitively answer the question. 

I'm kind of leaning toward thinking that there was actually never a shared custody situation with the Monon Bell, but there's still some reasonable doubt about what happened with the trophy after 1935. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

wally_wabash

Preseason All-Americans!

Cody Buresh of Wabash is the only NCAC name on the list (1st team defense).  The QB/WR combo of Nance and Walker from H-SC are named to the second team offense. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

sigma one

Wally, I lean the way you do--that there was never a time when the Bell was shared following a tie.  But that 1935 tie may have been the only time it could have happened.  I hope someone will point Ken in this direction.  As you note, he may know the definitive answer.

Li'l Giant

Man, you know the season is close when it's time to purchase Kickoff. So exciting.
"I believe in God and I believe I'm gonna go to Heaven, but if something goes wrong and I end up in Hell, I know it's gonna be me and a bunch of D3 officials."---Erik Raeburn

Quote from: sigma one on October 11, 2015, 10:46:46 AMI don't drink with the enemy, and I don't drink lattes at all, with anyone.

wally_wabash

Quote from: Li'l Giant on August 03, 2014, 01:47:03 PM
Man, you know the season is close when it's time to purchase Kickoff. So exciting.

Super close.  I think the team reports in 10 more days. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

AUPepBand

Pep is back in Mayberry after racking up over 2100 miles in seven days on his 2001 PT Cruiser Limited Edition, including stops/visits in Indiana in Vincennes, Bicknell, Bruceville, Worthington, Greencastle, Crawfordsville, West Lafayette, Lafayette, Westfield and Richmond.

Despite his loyalties to Alfred University, were Pep offered a lucrative position as a pep band director at a D3 college in Indiana, Pep would seriously consider it. Pep felt right at home among the Hoosiers and thoroughly enjoyed every stop along the way.

Indiana wants me....   8-)

On Saxon Warriors! On to Victory!
...Fight, fight for Alfred, A-L-F, R-E-D!

DPU3619

Quote from: sigma one on August 01, 2014, 03:00:42 PM
Wally, I lean the way you do--that there was never a time when the Bell was shared following a tie.  But that 1935 tie may have been the only time it could have happened.  I hope someone will point Ken in this direction.  As you note, he may know the definitive answer.

I've always thought the same thing. I was always told that the previous owner of the Bell always kept it for the entire year after a tie.

1837Tigers

Quote from: wally_wabash on August 01, 2014, 11:47:49 AM
Quote from: sigma one on July 31, 2014, 05:08:36 PM
     Wally, I really value your knowledge of Wabash football history.  There is a reference on the DPU site that  the initial rules stipulated that in case of a tie each school would have the Bell for six months.  Since the first game was a tie, neither team took possession  After that, I've never heard that the time with the Bell was ever split. Perhaps someone can clarify--wabashsid?   This is a point of Bell history worth knowing for certain.   I don't know what happened in '35 when the teams again tied 0-0; was the Bell awarded to each team for six months?  Wabash won in '34.  Did they keep the Bell in '35 for the whole year?  The next tie was not until 1956, so there is a lot of time in there for the rule to be changed, if indeed at some point it was.  But the '35 game may be crucial to the point.   If it was split, six months each after the 1935 tie, maybe  at some time in the intervening years the schools decided that the previous year's winner would retain possession.  I've never heard this, however. 

I consulted the Monon Memories to try and get an answer.  The 1935 clip doesn't say what the fate of the Monon Bell was after the tie.  There aren't any clues in the 1934 clip either, other than we know that Wabash won 7-6 and had possession of the Bell headed into 1935.  Now, in the 1936 clip, there is a line in the voice over (at about 41 seconds) that says "three men made sure the Bell would stay at Wabash".  So, the Bell either took its six months at Wabash prior to the game, the Bell never left Wabash after 1935, or the narration is just kind of generalizing (less likely, because Ken Owen did a fantastic job with these and this sort of detail, ownership of the Bell, isn't something to be glossed over).  Speaking of, Ken Owen might actually be a guy who can definitively answer the question. 

I'm kind of leaning toward thinking that there was actually never a shared custody situation with the Monon Bell, but there's still some reasonable doubt about what happened with the trophy after 1935.

Hi Wally,

First, thanks for the kind words!  And it always makes me happy (for the rivalry, not for me) when I learn that someone is enjoying the MMs.

I was probably working on the '30s in 2006-07, so my brain is foggy on some aspects, but everything I read/consulted (mainly newspaper clips from the era) suggested that only the '32 game had issues with who should get the Bell.  I'm pretty certain (but may be wrong) that from '33 on the winners got it and kept it all year.  But I'll ask some others who may have a different take.

I hope everyone's enjoying the summer, and I know we're all jonesing for some football. 

Thanks again,

Ken

1837Tigers

From Bill Wagner:

According to the November 18, 1935, edition of The DePauw, Wabash kept the bell after the tie.

AUPepBand

Pep had always wondered what a Monon Bell was but never wanted to be "that guy" who asked the dumb question. While traveling about Indiana last week, it helped to learn that the Monon was the name of a prominent Indiana railway. Pep may be a slow learner, but at least he's still at it.  ;)

On Saxon Warriors!
On Saxon Warriors! On to Victory!
...Fight, fight for Alfred, A-L-F, R-E-D!

wally_wabash

Brilliant!  Thanks for chiming in, Ken. 

Quote from: AUPepBand on August 05, 2014, 11:44:55 AM
Pep had always wondered what a Monon Bell was but never wanted to be "that guy" who asked the dumb question. While traveling about Indiana last week, it helped to learn that the Monon was the name of a prominent Indiana railway. Pep may be a slow learner, but at least he's still at it.  ;)

On Saxon Warriors!


Pep- you'll probably never find a shortage of people here that think you're "that guy" for asking about the Monon Bell.  We love that thing...we're happy to talk about it any time, any place.  Ask away!
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

sigma one

Thanks, 1837Tigers.  I think this clears it up.