Mid-Atlantic Region

Started by Mid-Atlantic Fan, August 29, 2017, 02:44:32 PM

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Falconer

On a happier note, other than West I thought the player of the game (for the Falcons) was Luke Groothoff. I lost count of how many times he defused plays as they were developing, or even after they had developed. He's fast, nimble, and terrific in the air--perhaps the best Falcon in that regard defensively since the great Hayden Woodworth.  When he guarded Tueno man-to-man in the second half (and sometimes on set plays in the first half) he almost totally shut him down, often by denying him the ball through the air or by stealing it from his feet. I have not seen this year a better all-around defender, except for Vetger at Calvin. If Groothoff gets even better with experience, he will probably be in that category sooner or later. It was prudent to move him back to CB from the MF last night: the Falcons really needed him.

Falconer

Quote from: Shooter McGavin on October 18, 2018, 10:36:54 AM
There was one strike that West had off the cross bar in the first half that was a rocket and I believe someone already mentioned this earlier. That was a well hit ball and half a yard down and its a wonder goal. I do agree that they are starting to rely a little much on him. What happens when he has an off game in NCAA's? Do they survive? That I do not know but at this rate he may not have an off game!  ;D
The Falcon's dependence on West to finish is certainly concerning; it's hard to think that he will continue to score in every single game, even though his numbers against three top teams (JHU, Lycoming, MSU) are truly impressive (7 goals)--if they can't stop him, who can?

On his second goal last night, Ruiz Plaza could probably have kept the ball himself and gotten off a shot inside the box, but obviously he didn't hesitate to pass it to West, who wasn't yet fully open. Now, granted, Plaza has always been a reluctant shooter--far too much so, IMO, since he hits rockets pretty much from anywhere--but given how hot West has been all year, why not let him finish the play?

The real question for the Falcons is, what happens to the front line next year? They lost two AA attackers from last fall, so West has been the obvious go-to man this year. An even bigger question looms for next year, when they will lose West and three more SR offensive threats, namely, Alejos (LF), Ruiz Plaza (MF), and Justin Brautigam (MF). They can all score in situations and will be sorely missed. There just isn't all that much behind them. The answer could involve putting Luke Groothoff up front somewhere, but that leaves an enormous hole defensively. It will be a tough call. Perhaps another of the newcomers will step up, someone like Luke Kukolios (missed the Lycoming game)or Darryl Daniels (who got a solid 15 minutes in the second half). Time well tell.


blooter442

Falconer, it's interesting to not only hear you use the word "target" for center forward/central striker/etc. but also hear McCarty use that exact vernacular in that article about West. It very much makes sense — I'm not being critical of it — but I'd just never heard that used to describe that position before hearing it from two Messiah folks in a short span of time.

daddyEzK

Quote from: Christan Shirk on October 17, 2018, 03:59:48 PM
MID-ATLANTIC REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - October 17, 2018

Rank

School
. Div. III .
Record
. Div. III .
SOS

 . R-v-R .
. Overall .
Record
. Prev. .
Rank
1.
Messiah
12-0-2
0.591
--
12-0-2
--
2.
Johns Hopkins
10-3-1
0.629
--
10-3-1
--
3.
Eastern
10-2-1
0.587
--
10-2-1
--
4.
Franklin and Marshall
10-2-2
0.618
--
10-2-2
--
5.
Dickinson
9-3-2
0.579
--
9-3-2
--
6.
Haverford
7-4-0
0.626
--
7-4-0
--
7.
Gettysburg
7-4-1
0.579
--
7-4-1
--
8.
Lebanon Valley
7-4-1
0.570
--
7-4-1
--
9.
Lycoming
12-1-1
0.516
--
12-1-1
--
10.
Swarthmore
8-5-1
0.600
--
8-5-1
--

A lot of respect for the Centennial Conference on this poll.  Ooops, there I go being a homer again...

Mr.Right

Which means the top teams in the Centennial will have TONS of ranked Wins if those middle of the road Centennial teams stay ranked...That bodes well for Haverford

rudy

with the weak SOS and loss to Messiah last night it appears Lyco will have to win the conference tournament to make NCAA. That seems harsh given they are probably better than majority of teams that will get a berth. Wonder why they played a relatively weak schedule.

lastguyoffthebench

The Centennial should have two at large bids.    Will be interesting how the rest of the season plays out. 

MACC   Messiah over Lyco
MACF        Eastern over Manhattanville
CSAC           Keystone over Cairn
LAND    E-town over Drew
NEAC           PSU-Abington over Morrisville St
CC           JHU over

Pool C:  F&M
Pool C:  Haverford
-----------------------------
Just missing out:  Dickinson, Lycoming

Dickinson has two incredibly tough matches at Haverford and vs JHU.   Even though they are sitting at 5-1-1, they could potentially fall to the #4 or #5 seed and have a play-in game for conference post-season.

Dickinson 5-1-1 10-3-2
Haverford 5-1-0 8-4-0
Johns Hopkins 5-2-0 11-3-1
Franklin and Marshall 4-1-2 11-2-2
Gettysburg 4-3-0 7-5-1
Swarthmore 3-3-1 8-6-1




lastguyoffthebench

Quote from: rudy on October 18, 2018, 12:42:35 PM
with the weak SOS and loss to Messiah last night it appears Lyco will have to win the conference tournament to make NCAA. That seems harsh given they are probably better than majority of teams that will get a berth. Wonder why they played a relatively weak schedule.

Lycoming typically plays one UAA school a year, and one or two Centennial.  Perhaps Centennial schools dropped them from the schedule? 

paclassic89

#623
Here is the Top 15 regional ranking if the selection committee used an RPI system similar to college bball.  Just another interesting perspective

MID-ATLANTIC REGION (PACLASSIC89 RPI) RANKINGS
Rank  School             RPI
1.      Messiah          .676
2.      F&M               .660
3.      JHU               .659
4.      Eastern          .642
5.      Haverford       .629
6.      Dickinson        .613
7.      Lycoming .       610
8.      Swarthmore    .602
9.      Gettysburg      .591
10.    LVC                 .584
11.    Drew               .573
12.    Neumann        .561
13.    Catholic           .550
14.    Moravian          .549
15.    Washington College .542

1970s NESCAC Player

Quote from: blooter442 on October 18, 2018, 12:24:54 PM
Falconer, it's interesting to not only hear you use the word "target" for center forward/central striker/etc. but also hear McCarty use that exact vernacular in that article about West. It very much makes sense — I'm not being critical of it — but I'd just never heard that used to describe that position before hearing it from two Messiah folks in a short span of time.

The term "target" for a central striker has been around for decades.  It refers more to the player's role, rather than location on the field.

blooter442

Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 18, 2018, 01:37:16 PM
The term "target" for a central striker has been around for decades.  It refers more to the player's role, rather than location on the field.

I get that — just never heard it used before.

Mr.Right

Quote from: paclassic89 on October 18, 2018, 01:22:47 PM
Here is the Top 15 regional ranking if the selection committee used an RPI system similar to college bball.  Just another interesting perspective

MID-ATLANTIC REGION (PACLASSIC89 RPI) RANKINGS
Rank  School             RPI
1.      Messiah          .676
2.      F&M               .660
3.      JHU               .659
4.      Eastern          .642
5.      Haverford       .629
6.      Dickinson        .613
7.      Lycoming .       610
8.      Swarthmore    .602
9.      Gettysburg      .591
10.    LVC                 .584
11.    Drew               .573
12.    Neumann        .561
13.    Catholic           .550
14.    Moravian          .549
15.    Washington College .542


That is very interesting....Could you do that for the New England region when you have some time? I am curious

Flying Weasel

Quote from: blooter442 on October 18, 2018, 01:41:03 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 18, 2018, 01:37:16 PM
The term "target" for a central striker has been around for decades.  It refers more to the player's role, rather than location on the field.

I get that — just never heard it used before.

Yeah, I am probably familiar with the term because I'm a long-time Messiah fan.  When I first started hearing it used, it seemed odd to by used for Messiah because, without any prior awareness of what it was meant to convey, the term "target" conjured up images of a tall, strong forward who was good in the air and thus the target of longballs and crosses--the classic English center-forward.  But I would come to understand that it meant something quite different.

A target forward doesn't have to be good in the air, because the target can be and preferrably should be their feet. Their role is to get free of their defender (or at least hold off the defender), and be an outlet (or target) to play into. So they need to be comfortable receiving the ball from all different angles and knowing when to turn and attack space and when to hold the ball up, shield the ball away from defenders, and wait for support to come or runners into the box.

For Messiah, Matt Bills (2000-2003) was the perfect "target" forward.  He was great making himself available with his back to goal, was very hard to dispossess, and he was equally good at scoring himself as he was distributing the ball to teammates in and around the area. With the capable players around him, defenses had their hands full not knowing if he'd turn and have a go himself or would find a teammate to finish the play off, either option very dangerous and needing to be fully respected.

Nick West isn't utilized in a strict target role.  He's proven to be strong and able to play with his back to goal in the center of the pitch (much better than some of us anticipated), but with his blazing speed, he's still regularly moving into space and wide areas with the team regularly sending balls in behind the defense for him to run onto or looking to get him the ball where he can run at defenders.

Bills, for me, was a better classic "target", but West's speed means he has other ways to beat you.  And it's good he does because, unlike Bills who was surrounded by so many capable goal-scorers, he's having to carry the scoring load.  In Bills' most prolific season, 2002 (Messiah's 2nd national title season), his 29 goals accounted for 28% of the Falcons goals, or looking just at just the regular season his 19 goals represented 24% of their goals.  West currently is responsible for 47% of this year's goals, basically double that of Bills in the regular season.

So I too am concerned about the lack of distribution in the Falcons scoring this season.  If West has an off game or one of the better teams they will face in the NCAA's has a defense that can shut him down, where are the goals going to come from?  Who can you depend on to step up?  In 2002, Messiah had nine players, yes nine, who tallied 5 to 10 goals (not including a CB who was leading the Falcons in scoring the previous season before being moved to the back) to compliment Bills' haul.  Someone was going to come through if a team focused too much on making sure Bills didn't beat them.  At this point of this season, you couldn't fault opponents for ganging up on West and taking their chances with someone else beating them.  Of course, West's speed makes containing him a bit more challenging than a classic target.  And Messiah clearly has a lot of talented players around West and more than not Messiah would find another way to win, but in a single-elimination tournament it only takes one game and it's over.  What makes me less nervous is that the Falcons almost always elevate their game in the NCAA tournament, both collectively and individually with some players playing to their potential in ways only occasionally seen in the regular season, some just finding a new gear or level, some just being more consistently on.  The Falcons so often save their best for last.

What was really special about Bills' 2002 season was his post-season run that saw him scored in every game from the conference semifinal through the national semifinal, 7 straight games, a streak that included
• six game-winning goals
• scoring the game's first goal four times and last goal four times
• scoring the game's lone goal twice (both in regulation)
• scoring two sudden-death overtime goals
•  NCAA wins over these heavyweights (at that time): Johns Hopkins (17-2-0), Salisbury (15-2-2), Greensboro (16-4-0), Drew (21-1-1) and St. Lawrence (16-1-3). 
It took his regular season tally of 19 goals to 29 total as he ran roughshod in the conference playoffs and then was absolutely clutch in the NCAA tournament. For me, until we see what West does in the post-season, Bills' season is the gold-standard at Messiah.  West is having one of the best goal-scoring regular seasons.  As a Messiah fan, here's hoping he can keep it going in the post-season à la Bills.  Now that would be extraordinarily special.

Mid-Atlantic Fan

Quote from: daddyEzK on October 18, 2018, 12:28:46 PM
Quote from: Christan Shirk on October 17, 2018, 03:59:48 PM
MID-ATLANTIC REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - October 17, 2018

Rank

School
. Div. III .
Record
. Div. III .
SOS

 . R-v-R .
. Overall .
Record
. Prev. .
Rank
1.
Messiah
12-0-2
0.591
--
12-0-2
--
2.
Johns Hopkins
10-3-1
0.629
--
10-3-1
--
3.
Eastern
10-2-1
0.587
--
10-2-1
--
4.
Franklin and Marshall
10-2-2
0.618
--
10-2-2
--
5.
Dickinson
9-3-2
0.579
--
9-3-2
--
6.
Haverford
7-4-0
0.626
--
7-4-0
--
7.
Gettysburg
7-4-1
0.579
--
7-4-1
--
8.
Lebanon Valley
7-4-1
0.570
--
7-4-1
--
9.
Lycoming
12-1-1
0.516
--
12-1-1
--
10.
Swarthmore
8-5-1
0.600
--
8-5-1
--

A lot of respect for the Centennial Conference on this poll.  Ooops, there I go being a homer again...

This has nothing to do with respect........the NCAA regional rankings are all numbers driven. Welcome to the boards rookie.  ;)

Mid-Atlantic Fan

Quote from: rudy on October 18, 2018, 12:42:35 PM
with the weak SOS and loss to Messiah last night it appears Lyco will have to win the conference tournament to make NCAA. That seems harsh given they are probably better than majority of teams that will get a berth. Wonder why they played a relatively weak schedule.

Looking at their schedule it looks like they had a relatively tough schedule again before the season started and I remember someone even commenting in this thread that this year's schedule was harder than the previous season. Looking at a few that stand out as a big drop from last year are Geneva, Susquehanna, Scranton, and Christopher Newport. Last season those teams combined for 44 wins. This season they have combined for just 18 wins. I think right there is the answer as these teams who are typically strong performers and NCAA tournament contenders have not had good seasons thus far. With that said, Lycoming's SOS will rise significantly after playing Messiah the other night probably to the .535 range at least from just that game. They also have LVC left and potentially Messiah again so I think their SOS will continue to rise as playoffs approach.