MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Started by miac newbie, February 17, 2005, 03:57:25 PM

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Cav-J

So not many results from this past weekend that helped to clarify much in the MIAC. Probably the most telling game was SMU 14 point win over Concordia. The others didn't offer much insight.

This week will help to make things more clear..

Carleton and Concordia: Both team are in the bottom half. My guess is that Carleton will establish itself as one of the middle of the pack teams while the Cobbers keep falling to the bottom few.

UST and Augsburg: So I think we all agree that the MIAC is a 3 horse race but I am wondering if is is a 2 horse and 1 Booker race. I see UST winning and Augsburg being a good team but not in the class as SJU and UST.

St. Olaf and Hamline: : Like the Carleton and Concordia game I think we are going to see St. Olaf establish itself in the middle group and Hamline continue to drop to the bottom 3.

SJU and Gustavus: SJU is a top 2 team and Gustavus is in the middle of the pack.

SMU and Mac: So, I am biased but SMU needs this win not only to establish itself as being part of the middle group but I think SMU is actually closer to Augsburg than it is to the middle group. The SMU and SJU was one of the weirdest officiated games I have ever seen. SJU shot 44 free throws while SMU shot 17. SJU was in the double bonus before 10 minutes in each half. One referee called 22 of SMU's 31 fouls, sent Raheem Anthony to the bench because his shirt was untucked in the back and kicked Eli Cave from game for a Phantom comment [said referee was pulled from the SMU/Concordia game this past Saturday]. SMU was down 7 with 3 minutes left when that happened. I think people see Mac in the bottom group but I see Mac in the middle. Good coaching, good solid role play and a superstar player.. I think SMU wins by 15.

The team I really want to know more about is Bethel but they have a non-conference game this week.

Can't wait for MIAC things to heat up after winter break.
Go Cards.

bball1122

A few thoughts of my own - haven't been to as many MIAC games so far this year, and, well, life gets busy.

Based on what I've seen, it clearly is a three horse race this year, with the Tommies looking like the class of the league so far.  I will disagree with the previous statement - I actually think Augsburg is more of a threat to St. Thomas this year than St. John's is.  The Johnnies are good, probably an NCAA tournament team, but I think Booker is the best MIAC player in a long time (this isn't news, I know) and his supporting cast this year is very solid.  Carik is an all-league player, Mulligan and Mitchell can get hot, and Streeter is a solid addition to the frontcourt.  In addition, I really, really like the freshman duo of Joe Palmer (younger brother of Chris Palmer, former star at SMU) and Bradley Winter.  The game at Augsburg Wednesday will be a great early season showdown.

After those three, I think the next group is some combination of SMU, Bethel, Olaf, and GAC, though if GAC keeps turning it over like they have they won't win enough to make the playoffs (the more I think about it, I'm not sure they belong in this group.  Their guard play just isn't very good, though Malo is a start and Guse is a very skilled (and large) player).   SMU is good (as I predicted they would be last year), but they aren't particularly close to any of the top three teams in the league.  Coach Fano has done a nice job bringing in some guards that can apply defensive pressure, and Cave is a very good MIAC player (though it seemed as though he earned both technicals against the Johnnies (and they were down 12 at the time of the second T, not 7 (the game was over))).

Carleton, Concordia, Hamline, and Mac round out the league, and I think I would agree that Carleton has the best chance to move up to the above group.  They're young, and not deep, but Hanson has been a very solid player in this league for awhile and Beckler will be a multi-time selection to the all-conference team.  Lots of turnovers though, and they really don't shoot many threes at all.   Wide range of outcomes for them.   Mac - they're better than they have been, but I still don't see more than five league wins for them.  I'm still scratching my head at the fact that they only brought in one freshman this year. 

All in all, I think the league is down some this year.  The top three are good, very good, NCAA tournament good, but after that, it's a pretty big drop off, and I don't know how good the last one or two playoff teams will be.  As always, can't wait to be proven wrong!

Drake Palmer

Nice posts  CJ & BBall1122!

I'll add my thoughts as well...

Like everyone else, I'm curious to see how the entire league plays out.  Obviously, the youngish SMU club looks to be much improved, and the younger Anthony looks like he'll be a nice addition to the Redbird squad.

Forgetting the top three teams for a minute – UST, SJU, & AUGS, two of the teams that have me puzzled are the Bethel Royals, and STO Oles. Both teams have some nice upper-class leadership to build around, Granger Kinglund, & jack Jenson for Bethel, Troy Diggins, Noah Beck, & Dom Bledsoe for STO.  I thought both teams would be strong 3-5th place type teams but it seems both teams are searching for their identity.

The Redbirds had a nice win over STO at home and knocked off the Oles 80-74.  Then, the Oles went on the road to Arden Hills and crushed what everyone thought would be a good Bethel team that was selected by the coaches to finish 4th in the preseason poll.  The score was 92-64 for STO and it wasn't much of a game after the first half.  So, I started to think, perhaps STO just had a bad game against SMU and they would bounce right back. So the Oles traveled to Mpls last Wednesday where Booker Coplin and the rest of the Auggie squad crushed STO 85-57.  And mind you, they did this without their second best player, Matt Carik, who did not play. However, Carik was back in the lineup for the Auggie win over Carleton on Saturday.

It's too bad SJU was missing Jubie Aladie when they played Neb Wesleyan.  I think we might have a better sense of how these teams - SJU, AUG, & UST stack up against each other.

We'll get to find out how Augsburg & UST compare when they meet this Wednesday at Si Melby Hall. This should be a very compelling early season clash. Based on what I saw from the Auggies last week, they could match up real well with the Tommies. From a size (smallish), quickness, and athletic perspective, Augsburg & UST nearly mirror each other, plus the Auggies have Mr "Do everything" Booker Coplin. 

As BB1122 pointed out, Augsburg does have a bit of size waiting in the wings. I don't tend to think of Augsburg as Big Man University, but they've quietly turned out some very nice forwards over the years. Devean George, Dan Kornbaum, Collin Olmscheid, and now they have another post player who could potentially be mentioned as a serviceable, if not good post – 6-10 James Streeter. He's a junior college transfer who could be a force this time next year.  Good athleticism, and quickness for a guy his size, nice post moves, and displayed a deft touch from the wing. It will be interesting to see how much he develops over the next two years.  For starters he needs to practice "chinning" the ball so smaller guards don't rip him like they did once or twice last week.  Dawgs also have a 6-7 FY post Brad Winter, who shows a lot of potential and could merit some looks for the MIAC All FY team.  Obviously Raheem Anthony at SMU will be considered, along with Isaac Tessier & Jeremy Beckler at Carleton.

Speaking of FY talent, UST has their own FY wing, 6-5 Will Engels who looks like the real deal.  Should be a great match on Wednesday between the Dawgs & Tommies. I'll have to get my popcorn early and check this game out.  ;)

"If anything here offends, I beg your pardon. I come in peace, I depart in gratitude." ;)

Smitty Oom

Drake, do not forget Nate Albers for STO as well, in the upper classman discussion. Loved all the posts here!

Definitely an odd start to the season for most of the teams. I am really excited for tomorrows game at Si Melby, think I will be able to make it in person, hopefully it is just as good as the playoff game these two teams had last year!

Cav-J

I went to see Bethel early in the season vs. Steven's Point. They were much smaller than years past and I didn't think that they would be worthy of the preseason 4th spot the coaches predicted. I did think [basked on their returning players] that they would be better than they have showed so far.

Beside the lost to SMU, St. Olaf almost lost to North Central University [who is not 2-7]. The final was 70-67 and SO did not look good and that same look was present when the Oles lost to SMU. Something is just not right.

So I agree with Drake.

It is early and really almost anything can happen [Mac beat Augsburg last year] so we will have to see. Can't wait to decompress after tomorrow's games.
Go Cards.

GoldandBlueBU

My take on this BU team (I've only watched online so far) is that they'll make the playoffs, but are very unlikely to be a threat to any of the top 3 throughout the season.  Novak teams have tended to get better as the year progresses, so I think they'll improve, but I expected more out of Kingland and Jenson, who are, IMO, what their pre-season #4 was built on.

Very cool to see St. Mary's with a pulse and more this year!  Good for the MIAC...

jamtod

I think I've got the wife convinced to let me skip the kids' bedtime routine and head over to Augsburg tonight, if anybody else will be there.

Drake Palmer

#19882
Good, but not great ballgame at Si Melby tonight with the Tommies coming out on top of Augsburg 89-81.  Not quite as much fun since the lead didn't change hands multiple times like last year's OT thriller which the Tommies also won.  Playing the Tommies, death by a 1,000 paper cuts. Tough, hard nosed ball club.  Augsburg is going to get better and better too as the season progresses.

Quote from: Drake Palmer on December 10, 2019, 01:28:26 AM

Forgetting the top three teams for a minute – UST, SJU, & AUGS, two of the teams that have me puzzled are the Bethel Royals, and STO Oles. Both teams have some nice upper-class leadership to build around, Granger Kinglund, & jack Jenson for Bethel, Troy Diggins, Noah Beck, & Dom Bledsoe for STO.  I thought both teams would be strong 3-5th place type teams but it seems both teams are searching for their identity.

The Redbirds had a nice win over STO at home and knocked off the Oles 80-74.  Then, the Oles went on the road to Arden Hills and crushed what everyone thought would be a good Bethel team that was selected by the coaches to finish 4th in the preseason poll.  The score was 92-64 for STO and it wasn't much of a game after the first half. ...

The big surprise of the night came from one of the MIAC's Jekyll & Hyde Twins, the Bethel Royals.  The other Jekyll Hyde team being St Olaf.   ;) The Royals went on the road tonight and beat previously undefeated & 18th ranked UW Stevens Point 64-46. What??  ??? ;) An unusual season remains unusual.  Perhaps we'll find out if the Royals are beginning to hit their stride when they host 10th ranked UW Platteville on Saturday.

https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2019-20/boxscores/20191211_2j1j.xml?view=boxscore!   
"If anything here offends, I beg your pardon. I come in peace, I depart in gratitude." ;)

GoldandBlueBU

Yes - count me as extremely surprised at last night's result!

As you noted - a chance comes on Saturday to prove that it wasn't a fluke!  Not that I'd expect them to win, but if they can beat UWSP by 18, and have a competitive game against Plateville, then perhaps my expectations are a bit low.

Cav-J

So, I was at the SMU and MAC game on Wednesday. Both teams seem to be rising. I said it before that I think MAC is more of a middle of the pack team rather than the bottom. I see SMU right below the UST/SJU/Augsburg tier closer to Augsburg than to the middle. [Just my thought/hope so far. Obviously we will know more in January].

Here was the different between MAC and SMU.

Both top players had ok games. It was clear that Henningsfeld and Cave were to focus of each team's defensive strategies. JH had 0 points in the first half and finished with 15 points on 14 shots. Had 8 rebounds, a few blocks.. Good game in a vaccuum but probably below expectation especially if they want to win.

Eli Cave had 19 points [on an efficient 9 shots-about 6-8 shots fewer than he is used to taking] 7 rebounds, 1 block, 4 steals and defended Jackson most of the game [JH did not defend Cave]. Relative quiet night for Cave but effective and intangible..

If we decide that those two negated the other [I think both are worthy of 1st team MIAC consideration] then it boiled down to the other players.

MAC's bench played a total of 23 minutes and had 8 points.
SMU's bench played 74 minutes and had 28 points.

Each team has a star. In fact most teams in the MIAC have at least a notable player, but not all teams have a bench.

Carleton and MAC have 5 guys with more than 28 minutes/game.
GAC/Hamline/SJU/SO have 3 guys with 28 minutes or more
Augs/Beth/Conc/ have 2
SMU has 1
and UST has 0.

I wonder what will happen to the teams who have so many kids with big minutes [and to be honest I am not sure what big minutes means. I just saw a natural break at 28/29]. The MIAC season is a grind. It gets long and old [and there are weeks with 3 games]. My feeling is that we will see teams fade because of tired legs and bodies.

Just some random thoughts on my break at work.
Go Cards.

Drake Palmer

Hey all, when the basketball posts have slowed to a crawl on our board and you're looking for a bit of online entertainment, might I suggest the D3football MIAC board, followed, by the irreverent, and occasionally wildly humorous Liberty League football board. Earlier this year they were debating the merits of using "Time of Possession" in football to determine a team's success, but now they've turned to the stock market, number of Fortune 500 companies, et al to determine a football team's success.  ::) ;D ;D

Here's a peek:

Quote from: Machiavelli on December 14, 2019, 09:09:59 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on December 14, 2019, 06:46:09 PM
Quote from: Machiavelli on December 14, 2019, 06:09:07 PM
Math says if you post the same sh!t on every message board, at least one person might read half of it. Math also says even if you post the same sh!t on every message board, still no one gives a flying fvck. Math is also my game.

Oh little Mach, you wouldn't know real math (and Algebra I is not "real math") if it came up and smacked you in your face. We can put math to the test any day, with real money and not just pocket change. Winner take all. $100K in a portfolio starting Jan 2 and let's go throughout the year. Math says that you don't have the balls, nor the funds...........even on just this one board. Remember, you were the clown who said "DelVal would get destroyed by NCC". No, that was Muhlenberg, at home. So that was your ****, just last week, on not one, but two boards. By the way, you get no head start nor points in our contest. I went to Swarthmore before it became as difficult to get into as an Ivy or NESCAC school, so I spot you squatta!! You in Machy?? ;)

Holy FREAKING Amazing!

Did you just challenge me to a Stock Market-off on a Division 3 Football message board? I drastically underestimated just how golden your contributions are(and more importantly how much your future value holds) to this message board. You just gained instant admission to the pantheon of the best EVER posters. Incredible stuff.

For the record, I actually admitted I undervalued Delaware Valley's Football Team last week. I do understand that whole admitting you were incorrect about something is a foreign subject to the land of arrogant, pretend to be elite, boners of the world like you and all. I love calling total tool nut  douchebags, 'boners' by the way. It makes me laugh. I like to laugh.

Swarthmore. Good for you. Am I supposed to be super impressed or something? Is that the big mic drop? Great school. I rarely sh|t on any colleges about education(in real life) cause does it ever REALLY reflect someone's ability for success? Not really. But do you even know what message board you're in?

Anyway, just because I want/need more of your content...sure! I'm in for $100K!!! Let's do it. Why not. Show me the way boner face. (I'm actually quite content in my current financial situation at the moment by the way, so that last comment is satire, I'm not interested, but please please PLEASE continue to tell us how awesome and rich and smart you are forever. Btw, what do you bench? What are you repping out at these days??? Asking for a friend.)

Quote from: unionpalooza on December 15, 2019, 09:16:21 AM
Quote from: Machiavelli on December 14, 2019, 09:09:59 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on December 14, 2019, 06:46:09 PM
Quote from: Machiavelli on December 14, 2019, 06:09:07 PM
Math says if you post the same sh!t on every message board, at least one person might read half of it. Math also says even if you post the same sh!t on every message board, still no one gives a flying fvck. Math is also my game.

Oh little Mach, you wouldn't know real math (and Algebra I is not "real math") if it came up and smacked you in your face. We can put math to the test any day, with real money and not just pocket change. Winner take all. $100K in a portfolio starting Jan 2 and let's go throughout the year. Math says that you don't have the balls, nor the funds...........even on just this one board. Remember, you were the clown who said "DelVal would get destroyed by NCC". No, that was Muhlenberg, at home. So that was your ****, just last week, on not one, but two boards. By the way, you get no head start nor points in our contest. I went to Swarthmore before it became as difficult to get into as an Ivy or NESCAC school, so I spot you squatta!! You in Machy?? ;)

Holy FREAKING Amazing!

Did you just challenge me to a Stock Market-off on a Division 3 Football message board? I drastically underestimated just how golden your contributions are(and more importantly how much your future value holds) to this message board. You just gained instant admission to the pantheon of the best EVER posters. Incredible stuff.

For the record, I actually admitted I undervalued Delaware Valley's Football Team last week. I do understand that whole admitting you were incorrect about something is a foreign subject to the land of arrogant, pretend to be elite, boners of the world like you and all. I love calling total tool nut  douchebags, 'boners' by the way. It makes me laugh. I like to laugh.

Swarthmore. Good for you. Am I supposed to be super impressed or something? Is that the big mic drop? Great school. I rarely sh|t on any colleges about education(in real life) cause does it ever REALLY reflect someone's ability for success? Not really. But do you even know what message board you're in?

Anyway, just because I want/need more of your content...sure! I'm in for $100K!!! Let's do it. Why not. Show me the way boner face. (I'm actually quite content in my current financial situation at the moment by the way, so that last comment is satire, I'm not interested, but please please PLEASE continue to tell us how awesome and rich and smart you are forever. Btw, what do you bench? What are you repping out at these days??? Asking for a friend.)

C'mon Mach, everyone knows the best portfolio managers do most of their marketing on D3boards.com.  Though the big hedge fund guys know the real action is on the women's volleyball board.  There was a dude in the Great Lakes Region bragging about his long gamma/vega neutral trading play just last week.  Said he went to Carleton.

;D

"If anything here offends, I beg your pardon. I come in peace, I depart in gratitude." ;)

bball1122

Looks like the Johnnies have added a talented mid-season transfer:  Mitchell Plombon, a St. Cloud native who was at Winona St. last year as a redshirt and started the season with the Warriors.   

https://gojohnnies.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/mitchell-plombon/13026

He was highly recruited by the Johnnies (and Tommies I believe) out of high school but chose the D2 route.   Another big body to add to an already talented frontcourt for SJU.  And he's got some bounce:   https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/22891729

Smitty Oom

Quote from: bball1122 on December 21, 2019, 12:35:47 PM
Looks like the Johnnies have added a talented mid-season transfer:  Mitchell Plombon, a St. Cloud native who was at Winona St. last year as a redshirt and started the season with the Warriors.   

https://gojohnnies.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/mitchell-plombon/13026

He was highly recruited by the Johnnies (and Tommies I believe) out of high school but chose the D2 route.   Another big body to add to an already talented frontcourt for SJU.  And he's got some bounce:   https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/22891729

He was recruited by about nearly D2 school in the NSIC. He is definitely skilled/athletic enough to make a big impact. Heard through the grapevines the motor/drive is what holds him back at times. Hopefully Coach McKenzie can groom him and create a prosperous role for him, much like he has done with one of the most dominant MIAC players currently and another NSIC D2 transfer, Lucas Walford (11.6ppg, 65% FG, 12 rpg).

Smitty Oom

One of the best D3 hoops related story this year has to be the growth and transformation of Freddie Gillespie as a standout starting center for the #6(!!) Baylor Bears. For those that do not know, he spent his first years at Carleton. He was definitely an athletic and size standout in the MIAC, but he spent his first couple years getting his legs underneath him after a fairly injury riddled HS career. He decided to bet on himself and go down to Baylor where he redshirted a year and worked his way into a scholarship. This article is a good one about his interesting journey through NCAA hoops.

Anyways - he is currently averaging 8.9 pts on 54% shooting, 8.8 reb (leads the team), 1.5 steals and 2.4(!!) blocks per game (also leading the team). Quite the impressive stat line on any D1 team, much less the #6 team in the nation! Not quite similar to the route Duncan Robinson took, as he was elite as a D3 player taking his team to the Final Four, but that just makes it even more surprising.

Drake Palmer

Happy New Year all!

Just starting to get caught up on some scores from over the holidays...

Hamline went a respectable 1-1 over the break with a win over Baruch & 5 pt loss to UW Whitewater.

STO played UW Eau Claire tough in a 76-70 loss.

Gusties roughed up in their 0-2 trip out west to the SCIAC.

The Redbirds lost two tough games in Illinois to Wheaton from the CCIW, and Dubuque from the ARC.  Cav-J, any idea why Raheem Anthony didn't play?  He may have been able to provide a little board work in those games.  Eli Cave played well and was selected to the All Tournament team in the Wheaton Holiday tourney.

Earlier in December, Augsburg went 2-0 in their trip down to Puerto Rico, while SJU went 2-0 on their western trip through the NWC conference.

"If anything here offends, I beg your pardon. I come in peace, I depart in gratitude." ;)