MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Started by miac newbie, February 17, 2005, 03:57:25 PM

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GoldandBlueBU

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 06, 2019, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on April 05, 2019, 09:10:57 PM
The people who are plugged into the football programs on the football thread seem to think this is almost a done deal and UST has already been making arrangements for their post-MIAC era.

It definitely is one way to get rid of the ridiculous 20 game conference schedule...

I think with this now out in the open .. the vote could easily go a different direction and this gets scuttled. Nothing angers me more in this division than presidents and others who suddenly want to change the rules and kick someone out ... because they won't own up and realize their lack of effort in their own athletics department is the real problem.

I kind of share that opinion - if things had been kept quiet, and those pushing for UST to be out had been able to keep their group tight and committed I think it would have had a better chance.  Now that it's public, I feel like there will be enough uproar about the downsides of kicking them out to splinter the group of ouster-backers.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: txg on April 07, 2019, 09:36:21 PM
I could be wrong, but I think this whole thing could have been avoided if the football coach didn't go out of his way to humiliate a bunch of 19- and 20-year-olds, I guess because his assistant coach took a head coaching job?  I think it is entirely football driven.  It's not like St. Thomas dominating in multiple sports is a new phenomenon.

Huh ... everyone does realize St. Thomas was NOT the only team to defeat those opponents by basically the same scores, right? And with what facts can you show that indicate the "coach went out of his way to humiliate a bunch of 19- and 20-year olds?" His assistant coach is your conjecture?

Just FYI - there are enough actual facts to prove otherwise. That UST took the foot off the gas pedal. A final score does NOT reveal how a game was actually played - or better WHO played in it and for how long.

I am doing my best not to lose my mind and really say what I want ... but sufficite to say: some people have their priorities completely screwed up and can't look at their own homes and understand why they are in the situation they are in.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Miacman4040

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 08, 2019, 02:27:09 PM
Quote from: txg on April 07, 2019, 09:36:21 PM
I could be wrong, but I think this whole thing could have been avoided if the football coach didn't go out of his way to humiliate a bunch of 19- and 20-year-olds, I guess because his assistant coach took a head coaching job?  I think it is entirely football driven.  It's not like St. Thomas dominating in multiple sports is a new phenomenon.

Huh ... everyone does realize St. Thomas was NOT the only team to defeat those opponents by basically the same scores, right? And with what facts can you show that indicate the "coach went out of his way to humiliate a bunch of 19- and 20-year olds?" His assistant coach is your conjecture?

Just FYI - there are enough actual facts to prove otherwise. That UST took the foot off the gas pedal. A final score does NOT reveal how a game was actually played - or better WHO played in it and for how long.

I am doing my best not to lose my mind and really say what I want ... but sufficite to say: some people have their priorities completely screwed up and can't look at their own homes and understand why they are in the situation they are in.

What bothers me the most is how the presidents of the schools will most likely make this decision without listening to their coaches and ADs. I guarantee not one MIAC basketball coach, player, or fan base wants St Thomas out of the league despite their hatred for the Yankees of Minnesota. Rivalries would get destroyed, national relevance would disappear at a time when the MIAC was beginning to see more of it, competition would fall, and a historic conference would weaken. MIAC basketball programs are very old and very proud (Especially Hamline) and it would be a shame to see that history tainted by such a short-sighted decision.

However, if St Thomas envisions moving out of D3, now is the time to do so.

SUMMIT!!!!!

Quote from: Miacman4040 on April 08, 2019, 04:44:44 PM
However, if St Thomas envisions moving out of D3, now is the time to do so.

UST's core values totally reflect those of Division III --- they have always been in sync with the philosophy and spirit of Division III.  I guess some schools' administrators are willing (eager?) to cut off their nose to move up one slot in the football standings.  Maybe if some schools' coaches recruited football-sized football players (not 5'10, 165 lb d-linemen), they wouldn't get hammered as badly as they do by the top 4-45 teams in the league. Most of the teams on the "0" end of those blow outs have been on that end for decades

And lest we forget, they are wanting to eject the THIRD PLACE team-- what do they have planned for the first & second place finishers? tar & feather?  The sheer cowardice & pettiness of it just reeks.  And the egg on the MIAC's collective & competitive face nationally will hang there for a long, long time.
After the game, the king and pawn go into the same box.

Italian proverb

jamtod

Quote from: miacmaniac on April 08, 2019, 05:21:12 PM
Quote from: Miacman4040 on April 08, 2019, 04:44:44 PM
However, if St Thomas envisions moving out of D3, now is the time to do so.

UST's core values totally reflect those of Division III --- they have always been in sync with the philosophy and spirit of Division III.  I guess some schools' administrators are willing (eager?) to cut off their nose to move up one slot in the football standings.  Maybe if some schools' coaches recruited football-sized football players (not 5'10, 165 lb d-linemen), they wouldn't get hammered as badly as they do by the top 4-45 teams in the league. Most of the teams on the "0" end of those blow outs have been on that end for decades

And lest we forget, they are wanting to eject the THIRD PLACE team-- what do they have planned for the first & second place finishers? tar & feather?  The sheer cowardice & pettiness of it just reeks.  And the egg on the MIAC's collective & competitive face nationally will hang there for a long, long time.

Yes, however, have you forgotten that one time in a 6-3 football game, St Thomas had the gall to successfully complete a 2-pt conversion on a behind the back pass?

And also that time they rang up 97 on the Oles by throwing deep with the first team stumbling into the endzone with a 4th string senior linemen.

Miacman4040

Quote from: miacmaniac on April 08, 2019, 05:21:12 PM
Quote from: Miacman4040 on April 08, 2019, 04:44:44 PM
However, if St Thomas envisions moving out of D3, now is the time to do so.

UST's core values totally reflect those of Division III --- they have always been in sync with the philosophy and spirit of Division III.  I guess some schools' administrators are willing (eager?) to cut off their nose to move up one slot in the football standings.  Maybe if some schools' coaches recruited football-sized football players (not 5'10, 165 lb d-linemen), they wouldn't get hammered as badly as they do by the top 4-45 teams in the league. Most of the teams on the "0" end of those blow outs have been on that end for decades

And lest we forget, they are wanting to eject the THIRD PLACE team-- what do they have planned for the first & second place finishers? tar & feather?  The sheer cowardice & pettiness of it just reeks.  And the egg on the MIAC's collective & competitive face nationally will hang there for a long, long time.

I only meant it would be a convenient time for them to leave the MIAC on their own terms instead of getting booted, I wasn't insinuating that they don't belong in D3. Relax.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Everyone needs to remember a few things ... a school can't just decide to leave for DII. They have to have a conference home BEFORE they can even apply to DII ... let alone be accepted. And anyone thinking about D1 (which I already read one article SMH) ... you have to be in DII first.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Smitty Oom

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 09, 2019, 08:12:12 PM
Everyone needs to remember a few things ... a school can't just decide to leave for DII. They have to have a conference home BEFORE they can even apply to DII ... let alone be accepted. And anyone thinking about D1 (which I already read one article SMH) ... you have to be in DII first.

The thing, though, there is a natural fit for them geographically in the NSIC with Augustana (Sioux Falls) leaving for D1. NSIC presumably wants to keep their even 16 team, 2 division conference. Thats why the hypothetical talking point of them leaving for DII seems to have some validity behind it, from the outside.

Greek Tragedy

Pointers
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2004, 2005, 2010 and 2015 National Champions

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TGHIJGSTO!!!

sac

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2019, 09:22:54 AM
So there's no D2 independents?

There are 6

Bluefield State, WV
Oakland City, IN
Salem, WV
Puerto Rico-Bayamon
Puerto Rico-Maraguez
Puerto Rico-Rio Piedras

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2019, 09:22:54 AM
So there's no D2 independents?

Technically not allowed - at least besides who they have. A program must have a conference "sponsor" for their application to DII.

It is one of the reasons, I am told, that Rowan has been unable to apply to DII (apparently some interest). No conference is interested in having them. At least that is the story relayed to me.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

tomt4525

6'3" Eagan SF, Ben Kozemzak, has committed to UST.

AO

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2019, 06:57:55 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2019, 09:22:54 AM
So there's no D2 independents?

Technically not allowed - at least besides who they have. A program must have a conference "sponsor" for their application to DII.

It is one of the reasons, I am told, that Rowan has been unable to apply to DII (apparently some interest). No conference is interested in having them. At least that is the story relayed to me.
The NCAA told the same thing to Liberty before giving them a waiver to be an FBS independent.  I'm guessing they think this policy might not hold up very well in court.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: AO on April 18, 2019, 07:33:58 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 10, 2019, 06:57:55 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 10, 2019, 09:22:54 AM
So there's no D2 independents?

Technically not allowed - at least besides who they have. A program must have a conference "sponsor" for their application to DII.

It is one of the reasons, I am told, that Rowan has been unable to apply to DII (apparently some interest). No conference is interested in having them. At least that is the story relayed to me.
The NCAA told the same thing to Liberty before giving them a waiver to be an FBS independent.  I'm guessing they think this policy might not hold up very well in court.

I'm guessing the d1 bylaws aren't as explicit as the d2 process - I'm not even sure you can apply without a conference acceptance.  I know one school that's tried to get into d2 from the NAIA four times and no conference will have them.  It's pretty much a non-starter, although I'd love to see where a lawsuit goes.  The NCAA hasn't been coming out to well in those of late.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Yeah ... DII has a restriction that you must have a conference membership available when you apply to DII ... so that ain't happening.

Quote from: AO on April 18, 2019, 07:33:58 PM
The NCAA told the same thing to Liberty before giving them a waiver to be an FBS independent.  I'm guessing they think this policy might not hold up very well in court.

Let's start with this: don't use "NCAA" as if those in Indy made some kind of decision that was counter to what normally happens. All decisions are membership decisions. So, DI membership gave Liberty a waiver to be an FBS independent. Also, Liberty was a D1 institution already. Things are usually done differently for institutions that are already members of said division rather than entering as a non-member. (Not that it is that unique: Notre Dame is an FBS independent.)

But that is also completely different than what DII has for rules. Each division has its own set of membership rules (so do different sports depending on number of participants). Just because one division does one thing does NOT mean it translates or relates to another division. So, the Liberty example isn't relevant when talking about DII membership.

It probably isn't relevant when talking about DI membership. As it has been told to me on multiple occasions, no school is going to be granted DI membership without having been at DII first. Considering the DII process (from actual start at a school to finish) is likely a five year process ... and because DI won't likely take an institution that hasn't spent more than just the grace period in DII ... I tend to feel any DIII member who has DI aspirations has to figure they have a 10-15 year timeline in front of them before they would be accepted into DI. IMO.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.