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pumkinattack

Hobart is Purple & Orange (Cuse stole our Orange) as well. 

Widener's HC, Ike Collins, was an assistant at Hobart for a bit (I remember him from my days there, he had to work with an excellent RB - Mark Logan, who got displaced as a JR by an even better FR - Keith Brandon, and performed that difficult task very well).  That could be a storyline on that one. 

NCF

C'mon, everyone knows the "real" Stagg Bowl takes place in the semi's this year if Mount plays UMHB. ;D
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Frank Rossi

Quote from: pumkinattack on November 27, 2012, 10:32:10 AM
Hobart is Purple & Orange (Cuse stole our Orange) as well. 

Widener's HC, Ike Collins, was an assistant at Hobart for a bit (I remember him from my days there, he had to work with an excellent RB - Mark Logan, who got displaced as a JR by an even better FR - Keith Brandon, and performed that difficult task very well).  That could be a storyline on that one.

Or that Jasper Collins, WR for Mount Union, is Ike's nephew and is a Geneva native... :)

MonroviaCat

Quote from: newcardfan on November 27, 2012, 10:54:14 AM
C'mon, everyone knows the "real" Stagg Bowl takes place in the semi's this year if Mount plays UMHB. ;D
That's what we were saying back in 2005 when #2 Whitewater was sent to #1 Linfield in the quarterfinal game.  Whitewater won the shootout (we call it "The Game"), went on to destroy Wesley in the Semifinals and then.....lost to Mt. Union in the Stagg Bowl......
Go Cats!

K-Mack

#2674
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 27, 2012, 11:09:42 AM
Quote from: pumkinattack on November 27, 2012, 10:32:10 AM
Hobart is Purple & Orange (Cuse stole our Orange) as well. 

Widener's HC, Ike Collins, was an assistant at Hobart for a bit (I remember him from my days there, he had to work with an excellent RB - Mark Logan, who got displaced as a JR by an even better FR - Keith Brandon, and performed that difficult task very well).  That could be a storyline on that one.

Or that Jasper Collins, WR for Mount Union, is Ike's nephew and is a Geneva native... :)

It's almost like ... we should write a feature story on that! (see the front page)

I did have the same Round of 8 thought as you Ralph.

The UW-O going out to Linfield angle as UW-W did has been floated as well and should be mentioned a little bit in a feature this week.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack

Quote from: middlerelief on November 24, 2012, 06:58:26 PM
I think kudos are in order to the D3football.com community.

Clearly the process you guys have in place to construct your Top 25 Polls works - just noticed that of the 8 remaining teams, they are comprised of rankings 1-7, and 9.

Not too bad!

Appreciate that.

As Pat noted on the podcast, it sets up almost like a bracket would if we got these eight teams and seeded them now. 1-4 are at home.

at No. 3 vs. No. 5
at No. 4 vs. No. 7
at No. 2 vs. No. 6
at No. 1 vs. No. 9

Some of those props should go to the committee too, as HScoach mentioned.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack

Quote from: K-Mack on November 26, 2012, 05:45:21 PM
The real reason I came by to post is because I promised a UW-Oshkosh parent some good Portland/McMinnville recommendations, but it can't hurt to ask the greater audience what they'd point someone towards if they were spending their Christmas fund to fly from Oshkosh to Oregon for a D-III game. Help out if you can:

QuoteBooked the flight last night on Expedia. We had to fly into Seattle to make the budget work and drive down, but we have two half days in Portland and McNinnville, and would love any local suggestions. As I said we are on a tight budget, as this is our xmas money, as my son is a senior, and I won't miss his potential last game. So any diners type restaurants or family restaurants? I can't handle fast food, but I love the little family joints.

I asked Catdome Alumni to weigh in, but anyone familiar with Portland or McMinnville, chime in.

I definitely gave some Widener folks some Alliance pointers, but mostly it was that there's not a whole lot to do there. They were booked at the Super 8!

Here's what I originally said:
I asked Ryan, who runs CatdomeAlumni, to give me some suggestions I could pass on to you. I've been to Portland twice -- it's a great dining out city -- and McMinnville/Linfield once. The school is about 45 minutes into Oregon wine country, not quite to the coast (which is great Beach in the summer, but that's neither here nor there).

Portland has a cool food truck scene, and VooDoo donuts are to die for. Try to get some of those while in town. I'm asking now about Seattle, Portland and McMinnville and I'll get back to you. I have family out that way as well so hopefully I'll point you toward something good.

Some stuff from my sister, who swears she's not a Portland expert:
We went to The Original which was a diner that is pretty cool. The put fruit loops on their pancakes and weird hipster stuff like that. McMinemins are always pretty neat places too. There are a few of them around the Portland area. Apizza Scholls and Pok Pok are supposed to be super good, but I cannot attest. We also did a lot of the food carts when we went a few years ago.  Portland is kinda known for that. Portland City Grill is a nicer restaurant  but has a decent happy hour with an amazing view of Portland. Hope that helps!

Me:
I went to Pok Pok and that Greek place with the spider that you took me to years back. Already recommended the food trucks and VooDoo Donuts. Thanks, this will help.

Her:
Oh yeah, how did I forget Voodoo donuts!  You should tell them to go to Vodoo II -- the wait lines are shorter.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 27, 2012, 09:30:42 AM
Quote from: K-Mack on November 26, 2012, 06:59:15 PM
Here are the potential Stagg Bowls and my snap judgment storylines to seeing those two names paired together, if I had one:

Mount Union vs. Linfield: <---- Been a long time coming.
Mount Union vs. UW-Oshkosh <---- Oshkosh playing the role of UW-Whitewater.
Mount Union vs. Hobart            (In other years, this would be the "East" Regional final in the Round of 8)
Mount Union vs. St. Thomas <---- All purple, all the time.
UMHB vs. Linfield <---- 2004 rematch.
UMHB vs. UW-Oshkosh <---- Holy offense Batman. Great QBs. Maybe the matchup I want to see?
UMHB vs. Hobart              (Is the East really this good?  Texans want to know!)
UMHB vs. St. Thomas        (Still purple!)
Wesley vs. Linfield <---- rematch of last year's Round 2; I know Linfield wants another shot.
Wesley vs. UW-Oshkosh             (Another version of Wesley versus the WIAC)
Wesley vs. Hobart <---- rematch of last year's Round 1.
Wesley vs. St. Thomas <---- Both semifinal losers from last year break through.
Widener vs. Linfield <---- A gajillion passing yards.
Widener vs. UW-Oshkosh     (MAC/East Region back in the Stagg Bowl. Reminds you of the 1990's.)
Widener vs. Hobart <---- East Region prevails, Frank Rossi drools with glee Bowl
Widener vs. St. Thomas      (Widener has a 1977/1981 Stagg veteran re-union gala on the night before the game.)   

I thought of story lines for the rest.  C'mon fans, weigh in!
I was trying to write a "catchy" headline for K-Mack's mythical Final Fours, but (47 + 72 = 119) to (7 + 17 = 24) is only a few banana peels shy of a quintuple monkey-stomp!

Of course UMHB gets to go to Alliance next week so we will see. UMU only put a double monkey stomp on JHU.

K-Mack

There is no defending the East's performance today, and the future for it breaking through is pretty bleak since Hobart and Widener had performed as well as anybody coming in.

The new era of breaking up the overloaded West and North brackets means somebody's going to have to go beat an elite playoff team on the road in a shocker.

I tried to judge these teams on what they'd done, but clearly I should have gone safe with the picks and just relied on history of conference strength.

Updated potential matchups:
Mount Union vs. UW-Oshkosh <---- La Crosse in the 90s, Whitewater in the 2000s, is it Oshkosh's decade to be the WIAC team to beat Mount Union?. (also play them, then win at Linfield, then 2 years later win Stagg Bowl)

Mount Union vs. St. Thomas <---- Larry Kehres, genius coach vs. budding genius coach.

UMHB vs. UW-Oshkosh <---- Holy offense Batman. Great QBs. Maybe the matchup I want to see? (same tagline as last week) ... Least expected final since ??? W&J/Albion?

UMHB vs. St. Thomas <---- The other purple meat. New champion.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
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and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

Pat Coleman

Someone was always going to have to go on the road to beat a team -- it's just that now it has to be in the quarterfinals instead of the semis.
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K-Mack

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 01, 2012, 09:22:49 PM
Someone was always going to have to go on the road to beat a team -- it's just that now it has to be in the quarterfinals instead of the semis.

Yes, point clarified by my editor.

I don't really have a problem -- and I think I've been consistent on this over the years -- with a team having to play other top teams a round early, or on the road. At least it's not decided by the polls and computers. There's a chance to earn it, and while it might be rare, we've seen teams topple powerhouses.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack

Reposted from the OAC boards. I wrote a little essay on being a D-III "pundit" and what the view is like from my seat. It belongs here more than anywhere else, as it's practically an ATN item, and this is where the most reasonable D-III fans tend to post, and I think you all might enjoy it if you have some time you're REALLY looking to kill:

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 01, 2012, 10:30:20 PM
Quote from: HScoach on December 01, 2012, 10:17:47 PM
Quote from: rscl70 on December 01, 2012, 09:25:01 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 01, 2012, 09:05:00 PM
Quote from: rscl70 on December 01, 2012, 08:23:52 PM
This was the team all the pundits said would give Mount a game.

Huh? Who are these pundits? Or do you consider 52-14 a game?

Pat's take: Mount Union 52, Widener 14: I don't see Widener being able to slow down the Mount Union offense, which Burke has been running at a high level all season. The Purple Raiders might not run well but they won't have to this week, I don't think. The Haupt-to-Davis connection should be good for a couple of scores but not enough on a consistent basis to beat a team such as Mount Union.

Well, maybe only one pundit....."Keith's take: Mount Union 35, Widener 21: Let me say this up front: Widener deserves to be here. Having seen them play, they're more than just a sacrificial lamb for the Purple Raiders. They will score some points and put some pressure on Burke. This is the best team Mount Union has played all season, and the 25-point margins of victory floating around on the message boards sell the Pride a bit short."

Well, that one pundit thinks he knows way more about Mount than he actually does from watching a few games on STO.  I understand that D3.com, and the nation as a whole, is really sick of Mount being Mount, but his apparent agenda of looking for issues/shortcomings within this team is clouding his judgement.

Anyone that compares Kevin Burke to Zac Bruney hasn't been watching very closely or is trying to talk himself into something that isn't there.  The accuracy of that comparison ends with both being white, short guys that played QB for Mount.  The more accurate comparison would be Bill Borchert.  Yes, THAT Bill Borchert.

I'm not crazy enough to think that this Mount team is unbeatable, but it's good.  Even by Mount standards.  The only team in 20 years that I thought was untouchable was 1997, but even that team needed a late INT against Allegheny to survive a playoff game.  Whether this team plays well enough to beat MHB will be determined in a week, but this much I know, it's going to take either a complete collapse by Mount or a really good opponent to knock them out.

And in terms of Widener being the best team Mount has seen?  At least in regards to what we saw today, Heidelberg and Baldwin Wallace both have much, MUCH better defenses.  And John Carroll has a better QB and a better overall passing game.  And all three played Mount tougher.  And you can add Franklin to that list too. 

I'll give Widener credit that Anthony Davis is a stud WR, and their secondary was good, much better than I expected, but that's where it ended.  Mount was better at every other position, including QB.

I've never known Keith to have an agenda like that. Keith can come here and explain what he was thinking, but I'm sure it's not that he has some agenda against Mount Union. Besides, Keith knows that him saying it doesn't actually make it so. :)

Quote from: skunks_sidekick on December 02, 2012, 12:32:25 AM
Pat....over the now many years Keith has dialed down his rhetoric, but yah...somewhere down there he does still have a negative agenda against Mount.  He can't help it.  It's not mean......it's not obvious (anymore)......and it's not blunt.  But...on occasion..it's there.  It may just be that he is trying to be so fair or so balanced that he leans the other way by instinct. 

After getting to know Keith ("know" meaning chatting with him for a few minutes at a few Stagg Bowls), I really don't think he has an intentional agenda.  But,  I think subtly it comes out at times.  Again...maybe more trying to be fair to the extreme.

Yah Keith....we are talking about YOU.   ;)

And if you decide to come to town next weekend, please come to our get together Friday night.

I'll be totally honest with you guys.

You can talk about me all you want. I had my day as a player and wouldn't trade it for the world. I have never made the games about me and never will, but I also accept that with the role of columnist and analyst, I become the face of the game to some, the guy people love to prove wrong to others. This happens to me literally every week several times a week, between my e-mail and Twitter, etc.

I'm indifferent to it. I wouldn't even be here replying -- I'd be doing my final Lambert vote and reading through the Gagliardi packet, since I didn't want to vote until after today's games were played. But Pat mentioned it to me and said I should come reply. And if it wasn't HSCoach and skunks_sidekicks, guys I've met and whose opinions I respect and have built a name on the boards over the years, I probably wouldn't even bother with the reply.

You can call that big-timing if you want. I just think we have become so busy as we have added features over the years, with the podcast growing from 10 minutes to over an hour weekly, and the Triple Take and play of the week and the column -- and us still having families and full-time jobs -- that there just isn't time to sit on the message boards and reply to everyone who thinks they got slighted or proved me wrong or whatever. Usually I only hit the boards over at general football and the ATN boards, and of course, Twitter. Ninety-five percent chance if you reply to this, those are the only ways I'll see it. I'm gonna cc this to the ATN board for my own amusement.

I have many jobs with the site, but primarily I'm the national columnist and an analyst on the podcast and Twitter. Mostly what I do is look at things from the the bird's-eye view -- not from the perspective of rooting for one particular team, but rather trying to piece together the 239-piece, coast-to-coast puzzle that is D-III football.

In doing that, and being one of the fortunate few people who has seen games from Mount Union to St. John's to UW-Whitewater to Linfield to Wesley to Mary Hardin-Baylor and to 80 other places in between, I have gained some knowledge that I feel is my job to share with those of you who are following one team every Saturday. My area of expertise is explaining to fans where their team and conference fits into the national picture and the overall puzzle, and educating fans on #d3fb. Everywhere I go, fans and coaches and administrators and players stop me and tell me how much they appreciate me and Pat and everyone else. I remember going down to the hotel lobby in Lancaster, Pa. to buy a newspaper with a four-inch blurb on the Franklin & Marshall trip in 1997, and together, those things remind me that we are providing a service that's of value to people. When I see friends who have met on the message board travel and met up and make friends and share mutual respect, that's what fulfills me as far as doing this.

[Cont'd next post]
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack


As far as being the guy who picks the most games right, I couldn't care less. I mean my pride makes me care a little bit, but the picks are forgotten not long after game week and it's on to the next one. As they should be. It should never be about the picks; it's about the games and the players and the experience.

Truth be told, I don't even like doing them. I think it toes the line between being objective and affects relationships -- albeit in a minor way -- that I've developed with players and coaches because of the work we put in.

But people LOVE the picks. Triple Take gets eaten up every week. It's great for starting conversation about that week's slate of games, and in that sense, it provides value and I'm happy to do it.

I'm not sure it's even appreciated for what it is, which we often try to explain: During the season it's taking a 120-game Saturday and giving fans something to look at besides their team's game. During the playoffs, it's setting the expectations so that we know a surprise when we see one. Our opinions aren't infallible and they aren't always right, but we have a pretty solid track record, and we do take some delight in that.

Mostly I think people just like seeing their team's name in lights. I don't really think most fans care about respect as it is earned, they just want to see us fawn over their team. Which is fine. I am biased as all hell when I read about my NFL team, and I get mad when national people who don't follow it as closely as I do don't know the intracacies that I know because I'm a die-hard. But I'm also in the unique position of understanding what it's like trying to follow 32 teams and be an expert on them all. There's no way they can match the guy who reads every tidbit about his one team. But you can still get a pretty good sense from just putting in some work to know all 32 teams.

Now take an NFL beat guy's job and multiply that by 7.5. Then take away all the media access and endless camera angles and archived video, and you have my job. Try to get to know 239 teams to a degree where you can speak publically about them without making a fool of yourself.

So when you say I formed my opinion by only watching a few games on SportsTimeOhio, well no duh. I'm not the team broadcaster who gets to watch all 13 games plus get little tidbits from fellow alums in town. I have a loosely organized network of very kind folks who slide me info, help me out when I ask and correct me when I'm wrong, but the beat reporter and local radio guy still has value because he knows the team more intimately than I ever will.

Name me the other national D-III columnists or analysts who subscribe to the D-III package so they can watch the games on STO. Take all the time you need ... I'll wait.

I'm comfortable with my analysis because I put the work in. As long as I'm not full-time at this, it'll never be as much as I want. Truthfully, I only had time to watch most of the Heidelberg game. I watched the first quarter plus of Baldwin-Wallace because that wasn't an STO, it was during a Saturday when a gajillion other games were going on. I watched parts of the Capital and Johns Hopkins games. I have Widener DVRing in a couple hours here. I also watched dozens of other games from dozens of other teams this year.

You can't do my job and be scared to be wrong. If you skim over everything else I wrote, just understand that. I'm paid -- I actually do get paid -- to have opinions and analyze. A lot of the things I say end up being proven wrong, and some aren't even all that accurate at the time I say them. It happens, but I'm comfortable with it as long as what I am saying is based on something legitimate. Some work that I've done to look at what other people don't have time to look at because they have jobs and lives and they come to D3football.com for the service of me doing it for them. The only time I get frustrated with myself is when I say something empty, but I'm proud to say I really limit that, and of course don't do it ever on purpose. Pat and I during the preseason Kickoff pow-wows are often challenging each other to say "Grove City ranked No. 140? Why?" And then we make each other justify it.

So we may be wrong, but we're not going to say things just to say them. And to that end, I haven't seen anyone outwork us at what we do.

Does a coach who watches game video 450 times a year have a better understanding of a particular player/team/conference's weaknesses than we do? Sure. But we've got a baseline understanding of the other 26 conferences and 229 teams he pays almost no attention to.

It's a give and take.

Zac Bruney and Kevin Burke are similar in body type. They are also both mobile quarterbacks, were highly successful in high school in Ohio and to me have a gamer edge to their play. At the time I was asked to make the first comparison, it was on the spot and I didn't have a good answer. I didn't think Smeck or Jorris or Adamson or Piloto fit at all. Micheli was what came out, but there is probably no player I have covered that I hold in higher regard, so I didn't think Burke was ready for that praise yet. When it came back up, I thought Bruney was closer. Not perfect, but better than Micheli.

I was still a player for Borchert and Ballard. I watched each of them play -- 93 or 96 on TV because I was interested in Rowan, and 97 because I worked the Stagg Bowl as a player volunteer. I don't really know those guys games that well, if you say that's the comparison, you know better than me.

In a few weeks here ESPN is going to send Clay Matvick or somebody to cover the game. Whoever they send will be a million times more polished than me in the broadcast booth. But ask him or her who Rob Adamson is.

I might not know everything about Mount Union, but you could do a lot worse. And one of the reasons I don't know everything is because my job is to know a little bit about 239 teams, not to know one inside out.

I have an agenda. It's to share all the things I've picked up along the way with our listeners and readers.

Truthfully, with the exception of some ODAC biases that predate my work here, I don't root for D-III teams. The way I see it, I'm going to the Stagg Bowl either way. All I want to see is a great game that represents all that's great about D-III well.

I have made a lot of friends along the way, but that's not my job. My job is not to tell you the things you want to hear about your team. Of course I have critical things to say. That IS my job. Sometimes I say them in really dumb ways, like writing that JCU column from that angle in 2002 or saying that Burke was battling for the QB job when he's really held it all year this year and I was confusing last season's QB struggles for UMU with this season's. I make mistakes, and when I can, I correct myself.

But I'm never going to apologize for not being a homer for your team, whether your team happens to be Mount Union or anyone else. I go to bat for Mount Union a jillion times a year too when people say UMU needs to move to D2, or suggest Larry isn't winning with D-III athletes or within the D-III rules. Sometimes people can't accept that he does it better. And takes advantage of the inherent advantages of being a perennial playoff team.

Part of me being in the middle is saying things that are uncomfortable, but are ultimately rooted in either truth, or something that looked true at the time.

One of my weaknesses is that I see a lot of the good in teams, and because I see, say, Widener play really well the week before, you all are able to see just a MAC champion and can safely say Mount Union will soundly beat them. But I see a team that played outstanding defense against Salisbury's triple option and a WR that had a 200-yard game. It's hard for me to make sense of how that team that looks so good in front of my eyes is going to get beat by 50 points the following week.

I did base the pick on some sound thinking. Picking a score similar to Heidelberg's was not really outlandish; I'd do it again, and I bet if Widener and Heidelberg played, it would be a good game. The game today obviously got away from the Pride, and special teams were a huge factor, which I did not anticipate. I do think Widener had some players who could make plays against Mount Union. I did think UMU was ultimately better. Picked a 35-point output and two-TD spread. Perhaps having watched the parts of games this season where UMU struggled has put me more in tune with their few struggles and less with their overall dominance.

Sometimes though, I think I just don't have perfect predictive powers. The games are played, and we learn things that we didn't know before. Certainly I was wrong with my Widener pick, and I learned a lot from today's game.

I don't mind taking the heat here, even with me picking the correct team to win. Ultimately the pick was way off. My UMHB-Wesley and Oshkosh-Linfield picks were much closer to correct. In a few weeks, none of us will remember any of it, only what happened. And that's what's important. The picks, the analysis are ways to help us make sense of game day, but ultimately everything revolves around what happens on Saturdays. Anything said in advance is at best an educated guess. What happens on the field are the absolutes.

Everyone's a genius with the benefit of hindsight. Whaddya gonna do? Life goes on, more games are played the next week, and more people are going to claim they get motivated by proving me wrong. If that's what you need, more power to you. I don't mind, I'm just here to enjoy the games, educate the masses with mostly good and occasionally not-so-good info, and to write about it in really long form.

TL; DR but ah well, too late.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

Ralph Turner

Great post, K-Mack.+1! The way you rattled off the UMU QB's was impressive.

I can't rattle off the Dallas Cowboy QB's that easily, but then there have been a lot of them that I want to forget!  :P

Knightstalker

Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 02, 2012, 09:00:33 AM
Great post, K-Mack.+1! The way you rattled off the UMU QB's was impressive.

I can't rattle off the Dallas Cowboy QB's that easily, but then there have been a lot of them that I want to forget!  :P

That is because there are only three worth mentioning and only two of them won Super Bowls.  The three are Dandy Don, Roger Staubach and Troy Aikmen.  All the rest are just cannon fodder.

"In the end we will survive rather than perish not because we accumulate comfort and luxury but because we accumulate wisdom"  Colonel Jack Jacobs US Army (Ret).