Pool C

Started by Pat Coleman, January 20, 2006, 02:35:54 PM

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John Gleich

Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2018, 12:33:09 PM
Quote from: Oline79 on February 20, 2018, 10:36:52 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2018, 10:27:02 AM
Quote from: Oline79 on February 20, 2018, 10:04:08 AM
Quote from: fantastic50 on February 20, 2018, 08:42:03 AM
Do we know whether non-conference games against conference opponents will count toward a team's non-conference strength-of-schedule?  For example, Amherst, Williams, and Wesleyan each play one another home-and-home, but only three of those six games count toward the NESCAC standings.  My working assumption is that such games would not be considered for ncSOS, but that's just a guess.  Dave or Pat, any word from the committee on this?

How exactly does a conference opponent qualify as a non-conference game?  Sorry for my ignorance.
I assume by mutual consent of the 2 teams with notification of/approval by/acknowledgment from the conference office depending upon conference bylaws. It happens not infrequently in the "island" areas of D3 (ASC, NWC and maybe the SCIAC) and occasionally in the WIAC for football.

This sounds like a scrimmage, hopefully these kind of games have no effect on rankings.  Really screwy, since I believe part of the RPI ranking takes into account home vs away wins.  Winning on the road is "worth" more, I believe.
Respectfully, I went to the WIAC football site and randomly clicked on a team's schedule for the season and found this. UWEC played UWRF twice in 2011. The first game was "non-conference".

http://www.d3football.com/teams/UW-Eau_Claire/2011/index

The WIAC did that for cost reasons... because scheduling was so difficult, they were having to travel really far.
UWSP Men's Basketball

National Champions: 2015, 2010, 2005, 2004

NCAA appearances: 2018, '15, '14, '13, '12, '11, '10, '09, '08, '07, '05, '04, '03, '00, 1997

WIAC/WSUC Champs: 2015, '14, '13, '11, '09, '07, '05, '03, '02, '01, '00, 1993, '92, '87, '86, '85, '84, '83, '82, '69, '61, '57, '48, '42, '37, '36, '35, '33, '18

Twitter: @JohnGleich

Greek Tragedy

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2018, 01:45:58 PM
While the NESCAC teams mentioned are conference opponents, the conference schedule has them only play once. Thus as I am to believe, their second games against fellow conference mates are considered non-conference games and should be considered part of the non-conf SOS. For those curious, this would apply to the Amherst, Wesleyan, Williams group and the Bates, Bowdoin, Colby group.

I can certainly check, but I do not see why non-conference games against conference opponents should be excluded from that measurement. They choose to play those teams a second time in non-conference play.

Just curious. Does it have to be the 2nd game as the non-conference game? Would there be any kind of advantage if Amherst and Williams played their non-conference game 1st? I haven't looked at the schedule closely, but if the conference game is a home game for Amherst, would the non-conference game automatically be an away game for them?
Pointers
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2004, 2005, 2010 and 2015 National Champions

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nescac1

#7472
Amherst, Wesleyan, and Williams always play one home and one away game, with one being a league game, one being a non-league game.  Same for Bowdoin, Colby and Bates.

Wesleyan and Williams always (I believe, at least in recent memory) play one non-league game in the first semester, and that game regardless of who hosts will always be the non-league game.  Whenever a CBB game is played in the first semester, that game, likewise, will be considered the non-league game.

I do not believe that for Williams-Amherst or Wesleyan-Amherst, however, the order is always the same.  For example this year, the second Williams-Amherst game counted in the league standings, but the first Wesleyan-Amherst game counted in the league standings.  There may be some pattern (e.g., the game that "counts" alternates between host schools from year-to-year) to all of this, but none that I can recall offhand.  I am pretty sure that the league and the schools would want to make it fair so that each Little Three and CBB school, over a period of years, gets an equal number of home and away games that "count" against each opponent.  There is no way for example that Amherst would always be playing at home vs. Williams in the conference game. 

John Gleich

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2018, 09:31:17 AM
If those games count as non-conference, I would think they count in the ncSOS. A few years ago (could be 10 or more), Stevens Point played a rare non-conference game against Oshkosh and then played them twice in conference and then again in the WIAC tournament.

2003-04

https://static.wiacsports.com/custompages/mbasket/Results/200304MenBasketballStandingResult.htm

Mon
12/22/03
UW-Stevens Point 63, UW-Oshkosh 55 (non-conf)
Las Vegas, NV

Wed
1/21/04
UW-Stevens Point 68, UW-Oshkosh 53 (conf)
Stevens Point

Tue
2/17/04
UW-Stevens Point 63, UW-Oshkosh 61 (conf)
Oshkosh

Thur
2/24/04
UW-Stevens Point 70, UW-Oshkosh 59 (conf tournament)
Stevens Point

The conference tournament game was game 2 in a 9-game winning streak that won the first National Title.


Ironically, we lost to Superior (the 7 seed) at home during the final conference game of the year which broke a string of 4 straight WIAC titles (Rich Melzer-led River Falls won the title and broke a 50+ year conference title drought). And Stevens Point just lost to Eau Claire (the 7 seed) during the final conference game of the year...  ;) ;) ;)
UWSP Men's Basketball

National Champions: 2015, 2010, 2005, 2004

NCAA appearances: 2018, '15, '14, '13, '12, '11, '10, '09, '08, '07, '05, '04, '03, '00, 1997

WIAC/WSUC Champs: 2015, '14, '13, '11, '09, '07, '05, '03, '02, '01, '00, 1993, '92, '87, '86, '85, '84, '83, '82, '69, '61, '57, '48, '42, '37, '36, '35, '33, '18

Twitter: @JohnGleich

Gregory Sager

Hope and Calvin used to play each other in the local Grand Rapids tournament all the time. In fact, in 2007 the two rivals played each other five times: once in the Grand Rapids tournament, twice in regular-season play, once in the MIAA tourney, and then again in the D3 tourney.

I think that the year before they had played each other four times, which meant that they had faced each other nine times in the space of two seasons.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 20, 2018, 05:17:35 PM
Hope and Calvin used to play each other in the local Grand Rapids tournament all the time. In fact, in 2007 the two rivals played each other five times: once in the Grand Rapids tournament, twice in regular-season play, once in the MIAA tourney, and then again in the D3 tourney.

I think that the year before they had played each other four times, which meant that they had faced each other nine times in the space of two seasons.
Calvin's 2007 schedule:

11/25   vs. Hope •   Final   L, 76-54 (Pre-conference)
1/13   vs. Hope * •   Final   L, 65-62
2/7   at Hope * •   Final   W, 77-71
2/24   at Hope •   Final   W, 78-76  MIAA Tourney
3/3   at Hope   Final   L, 80-64  NCAA

fantastic50

Not a whole lot of bubble games tonight. Keene State and Nichols both get through must-win games. Illinois Wesleyan loses their regular-season finale to North Central, and looks a lot less safe now.

Greek Tragedy

Quote from: fantastic50 on February 20, 2018, 09:59:20 PM
Not a whole lot of bubble games tonight. Keene State and Nichols both get through must-win games. Illinois Wesleyan loses their regular-season finale to North Central, and looks a lot less safe now.

IWU and NCC battle again on Friday in the conference semis. If IWU loses, they're out. If NCC wins again, they may jump in at the end of the Regional Rankings next week.
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Titan Q

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2018, 10:32:51 PM
Quote from: fantastic50 on February 20, 2018, 09:59:20 PM
Not a whole lot of bubble games tonight. Keene State and Nichols both get through must-win games. Illinois Wesleyan loses their regular-season finale to North Central, and looks a lot less safe now.

IWU and NCC battle again on Friday in the conference semis. If IWU loses, they're out. If NCC wins again, they may jump in at the end of the Regional Rankings next week.

There is no next week, Greek.  Just tomorrow's regional ranking, and then Selection Sunday.

I believe North Central will jump into the Central rankings tomorrow.

smedindy

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 20, 2018, 05:17:35 PM
Hope and Calvin used to play each other in the local Grand Rapids tournament all the time. In fact, in 2007 the two rivals played each other five times: once in the Grand Rapids tournament, twice in regular-season play, once in the MIAA tourney, and then again in the D3 tourney.

I think that the year before they had played each other four times, which meant that they had faced each other nine times in the space of two seasons.

If that was hockey, there'd be some shenanigans. Misconducts abounding and all....

toad22

Quote from: smedindy on February 20, 2018, 10:40:16 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 20, 2018, 05:17:35 PM
Hope and Calvin used to play each other in the local Grand Rapids tournament all the time. In fact, in 2007 the two rivals played each other five times: once in the Grand Rapids tournament, twice in regular-season play, once in the MIAA tourney, and then again in the D3 tourney.

I think that the year before they had played each other four times, which meant that they had faced each other nine times in the space of two seasons.

If that was hockey, there'd be some shenanigans. Misconducts abounding and all....

Williams and Amherst have never played each other 5 times in a season. 5 times is crazy by any measure. They have, however, played each other 4 times at least 4 times, the fourth time in the season being in the NCAA tournament semifinals twice. That is crazy enough.

kiko

#7481
Quote from: Oline79 on February 20, 2018, 10:36:52 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2018, 10:27:02 AM
Quote from: Oline79 on February 20, 2018, 10:04:08 AM
Quote from: fantastic50 on February 20, 2018, 08:42:03 AM
Do we know whether non-conference games against conference opponents will count toward a team's non-conference strength-of-schedule?  For example, Amherst, Williams, and Wesleyan each play one another home-and-home, but only three of those six games count toward the NESCAC standings.  My working assumption is that such games would not be considered for ncSOS, but that's just a guess.  Dave or Pat, any word from the committee on this?

How exactly does a conference opponent qualify as a non-conference game?  Sorry for my ignorance.
I assume by mutual consent of the 2 teams with notification of/approval by/acknowledgment from the conference office depending upon conference bylaws. It happens not infrequently in the "island" areas of D3 (ASC, NWC and maybe the SCIAC) and occasionally in the WIAC for football.

This sounds like a scrimmage, hopefully these kind of games have no effect on rankings.  Really screwy, since I believe part of the RPI ranking takes into account home vs away wins.  Winning on the road is "worth" more, I believe.

I am pretty certain that even if Amherst and Williams scrimmaged, it would not really be a scrimmage.

I work with someone who played on the Amherst woman's team a couple of moons ago.  She mentioned to me a few weeks ago that the Amherst women had just beat Williams, so she was pretty jazzed.  I looked up how Amherst was doing this year, as I don't especially follow the woman's game, and discovered they were undefeated and ranked #1.  But that wasn't the headline, and in fact didn't merit a mention.  The headline was "we beat Williams".  And that more or less said everything that needs to be said about the rivalry.

HOPEful

Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 20, 2018, 10:43:09 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2018, 09:31:17 AM
If those games count as non-conference, I would think they count in the ncSOS. A few years ago (could be 10 or more), Stevens Point played a rare non-conference game against Oshkosh and then played them twice in conference and then again in the WIAC tournament.

In 2007 Calvin and Hope played each other in a non-conference tournament, then twice in the regular season, then once in the MIAA tournament, then once in the NCAA Tournament. That was... not great.

I believe I am correct in remembering that they played 9 times between the 2006 and 2007 seasons.

Oh, but we got to file into Aurora's Thorton Gymnasium for the season's 5th rivalry game. A smaller, not quite as nice, much further away gym than say... Caledonia High School :)
Let's go Dutchmen!

2015-2016 1-&-Done Tournament Fantasy League Co-Champion

fantastic50

Just 5 days until selections!  Just a few teams whose Pool C status is in doubt are in action tonight.

Locks & near-locks
100% (A) UW-Platteville (20-3, 12-2 WIAC, SOS 0.574, 5-2 vRRO, CE#2) 68% A, proj. 0.840 / 0.579 / 6-3
100% (C#1) Hamilton (22-3, 7-3 NESCAC, SOS 0.567, 4-2 vRRO, NE#1) 22% A, proj. 0.846 / 0.573 / 6-3
100% (A) Whitman (24-0, 16-0 NWC, SOS 0.509, 6-0 vRRO, WE#1) 76% A, proj. 0.962 / 0.524 / 6-1
100% (A) Williams (19-5, 7-3 NESCAC, SOS 0.587, 6-4 vRRO, NE#3) 31% A, proj. 0.760 / 0.596 / 6-5
100% (C#2) Wesleyan (20-5, 7-3 NESCAC, SOS 0.583, 6-3 vRRO, NE#2) 17% A, proj. 0.769 / 0.590 / 8-4
100% (C#3) Wooster (21-5, 14-4 NCAC, SOS 0.559, 6-2 vRRO, GL#2) 16% A, proj. 0.778 / 0.565 / 7-3
100% (A) Wittenberg (23-2, 16-2 NCAC, SOS 0.524, 5-2 vRRO, GL#1) 65% A, proj. 0.889 / 0.532 / 5-3
100% (C#4) Marietta (21-5, 14-4 OAC, SOS 0.557, 4-4 vRRO, GL#4) 36% A, proj. 0.786 / 0.568 / 6-5
100% (A) Augustana (20-5, 12-4 CCIW, SOS 0.566, 4-3 vRRO, CE#3) 49% A, proj. 0.778 / 0.571 / 6-4
100% (C#5) Middlebury (19-6, 7-3 NESCAC, SOS 0.585, 4-6 vRRO, NE#4) 0% A
100% (A) Eastern Connecticut (22-3, 13-1 LEC, SOS 0.530, 4-1 vRRO, NE#5) 71% A, proj. 0.852 / 0.536 / 4-2
100% (A) Cabrini (22-3, 16-2 CSAC, SOS 0.530, 3-2 vRRO, AT#2) 53% A, proj. 0.852 / 0.538 / 3-3
100% (C#6) New Jersey City (19-7, 13-5 NJAC, SOS 0.568, 5-4 vRRO, AT#1) 0% A
100% (A) John Carroll (21-5, 14-4 OAC, SOS 0.534, 5-2 vRRO, GL#3) 48% A, proj. 0.786 / 0.544 / 7-3
100% (A) Swarthmore (21-4, 15-3 CC, SOS 0.528, 3-3 vRRO, MA#4) 42% A, proj. 0.815 / 0.538 / 4-4
100% (C#7) Johns Hopkins (21-4, 15-3 CC, SOS 0.525, 3-3 vRRO, MA#2) 37% A, proj. 0.808 / 0.536 / 4-4
99% (A) St. John's (22-2, 19-1 MIAC, SOS 0.518, 3-1 vRRO, WE#2) 62% A, fin 100% C, semi 99% C
99% (C#8) York (Pa.) (21-4, 14-4 CAC, SOS 0.523, 3-1 vRRO, MA#1) 24% A, fin 100% C, semi 99% C
99% (A) Christopher Newport (20-5, 14-4 CAC, SOS 0.534, 3-1 vRRO, MA#5) 52% A, fin 100% C, semi 99% C
99% (C#9) Whitworth (22-3, 14-2 NWC, SOS 0.514, 2-3 vRRO, WE#5) 18% A, fin 100% C, semi 95% C

Strong contenders
98% (C#10) Emory (20-4, 11-2 UAA, SOS 0.523, 3-2 vRRO, SO#1) 0% A
92% (C#11) UW-Oshkosh (19-6, 9-5 WIAC, SOS 0.548, 4-3 vRRO, CE#4) 11% A, fin 100% C, semi 97% C, qtr 69% C
91% (A) Albright (19-5, 12-4 MACC, SOS 0.542, 3-1 vRRO, MA#3) 54% A, fin 99% C, semi 84% C
89% (C#12) St. Olaf (19-6, 15-5 MIAC, SOS 0.535, 3-3 vRRO, WE#3) 16% A, fin 99% C, semi 81% C
82% (A) Plattsburgh State (20-4, 17-1 SUNYAC, SOS 0.520, 3-3 vRRO, EA#2) 61% A, fin 98% C, semi 64% C

Bubble-in
79% (A) Hobart (21-4, 16-2 LL, SOS 0.525, 1-2 vRRO, EA#1) 69% A, fin 85% C, semi 70% C
65% (C#13) UW-Stevens Point (17-8, 11-3 WIAC, SOS 0.604, 5-5 vRRO, CE#5) 14% A, fin 84% C, semi 46% C
65% (A) Ramapo (19-6, 15-3 NJAC, SOS 0.538, 3-5 vRRO, AT#3) 50% A, fin 99% C, semi 36% C
62% (C#14) Illinois Wesleyan (19-6, 12-4 CCIW, SOS 0.547, 2-4 vRRO, CE#6) 18% A, fin 91% C, semi 48% C
61% (A) Springfield (18-7, 12-2 NEWMAC, SOS 0.556, 4-2 vRRO, NE#6) 44% A, fin 84% C, semi 37% C
59% (A) Randolph-Macon (18-7, 12-4 ODAC, SOS 0.549, 4-3 vRRO, SO#2) 39% A, fin 89% C, semi 58% C, qtr 11% C
57% (C#15) Franklin and Marshall (20-5, 14-4 CC, SOS 0.523, 2-3 vRRO, MA#6) 16% A, fin 99% C, semi 44% C

Bubble-out
47% (C#16) Gwynedd Mercy (20-5, 15-3 CSAC, SOS 0.512, 3-3 vRRO, AT#5) 25% A, fin 89% C, semi 3% C
42% (C#17) Loras (19-6, 12-4 IIAC, SOS 0.542, 1-2 vRRO, WE#7) 29% A, fin 55% C, semi 5% C
41% (A) Salem State (22-3, 12-0 MASCAC, SOS 0.509, 1-2 vRRO, NE#10) 73% A, fin 53% C, semi 27% C
41% (C#18) Brockport (19-6, 14-4 SUNYAC, SOS 0.530, 3-3 vRRO, EA#4) 27% A, fin 61% C, semi 5% C
40% (C#19) MIT (20-5, 10-4 NEWMAC, SOS 0.528, 2-3 vRRO, NE#9) 34% A, fin 69% C, semi 13% C
34% (C#20) Amherst (17-7, 7-3 NESCAC, SOS 0.565, 4-5 vRRO, NE#8) 30% A, fin 71% C, semi 11% C
34% (A) LeTourneau (22-3, 16-2 ASC, SOS 0.498, 1-3 vRRO, SO) 33% A, fin 69% C, semi 17% C, qtr 1% C
32% (C#21) Sul Ross State (19-4, 14-3 ASC, SOS 0.510, 2-0 vRRO, SO#3) 31% A, fin 82% C, semi 16% C, qtr 4% C
29% (A) Maryville (Tenn.) (18-5, 14-2 USAC, SOS 0.525, 1-2 vRRO, SO#5) 51% A, fin 58% C, semi 19% C, qtr 7% C
22% (C#22) Keene State (18-8, 11-3 LEC, SOS 0.563, 2-5 vRRO, NE#7) 20% A, fin 34% C, semi 3% C

Fringe contenders
18% (C#23) Tufts (17-8, 6-4 NESCAC, SOS 0.581, 2-7 vRRO, NE#11) 0% A
15% (A) Nichols (23-3, 16-2 CCC, SOS 0.509, 0-1 vRRO, NE) 59% A, fin 24% C, semi 7% C
8% (C#24) Ripon (17-6, 14-4 MWC, SOS 0.525, 1-2 vRRO, CE) 31% A, fin 18% C, semi 3% C
6% (C#25) North Central (Ill.) (17-7, 11-5 CCIW, SOS 0.545, 3-4 vRRO, CE) 25% A, fin 15% C

Longshots
4% (C#26) Baldwin Wallace (18-8, 11-7 OAC, SOS 0.545, 4-5 vRRO, GL#6) 7% A, fin 22% C
3% (C#27) Methodist (17-5, 12-4 USAC, SOS 0.515, 1-1 vRRO, SO#7) 19% A, fin 6% C
3% (C#28) Augsburg (18-7, 13-7 MIAC, SOS 0.526, 2-3 vRRO, WE#6) 7% A, fin 20% C
2% (A) Nebraska Wesleyan (21-3, 13-3 IIAC, SOS 0.500, 1-1 vRRO, WE#4) 59% A, fin 2% C, semi 2% C
1% (C#29) UW-River Falls (16-8, 7-7 WIAC, SOS 0.576, 2-6 vRRO, CE#8) 4% A, fin 15% C

Greek Tragedy

Quote from: Titan Q on February 20, 2018, 10:39:25 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2018, 10:32:51 PM
Quote from: fantastic50 on February 20, 2018, 09:59:20 PM
Not a whole lot of bubble games tonight. Keene State and Nichols both get through must-win games. Illinois Wesleyan loses their regular-season finale to North Central, and looks a lot less safe now.

IWU and NCC battle again on Friday in the conference semis. If IWU loses, they're out. If NCC wins again, they may jump in at the end of the Regional Rankings next week.

There is no next week, Greek.  Just tomorrow's regional ranking, and then Selection Sunday.

I believe North Central will jump into the Central rankings tomorrow.

Technically, there is another one though, just released after the brackets are announced? Also, are they moving the selection process back to Sunday or is it still Monday?

I suppose NCC did beat Wheaton, who was regionally ranked, so they could get in, but they also lost last week as well. River Falls also went 1-1, losing to regionally ranked Platteville. I'm not sure any of those three, Wheaton, NCC and River Falls are good enough to get a Pool C bid no matter what happens this week.
Pointers
Breed of a Champion
2004, 2005, 2010 and 2015 National Champions

Fantasy Leagues Commissioner

TGHIJGSTO!!!