FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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Pat Coleman

Quote from: wally_wabash on February 08, 2019, 12:50:08 PM
Quote from: ThunderStruck2010 on February 08, 2019, 12:34:16 PM
- Long time reader, first time poster. -


Wheaton has announced the hiring of CJ Nightingale as their new defensive coordinator. Nightingale is a former Wheaton CB who was the linebackers coach at Indiana Wesleyan University in 2018.

CJ replaces JJ Clark who departed for - oddly enough - Indiana Wesleyan University. 

https://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2019/2/8/cj-nightingale-named-defensive-coordinator-for-the-thunder-football-program.aspx?fbclid=IwAR21EnJ3SGVu-yPbduags4VhvF8TE_RMrwNHHXILnahpQCVMTJPiYPU_jl4

Any future draft picks or cash considerations as part of this trade?

Someone probably receives a home scrimmage to be scheduled later. And a bag of balls.
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Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

formerd3db

Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2019, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on February 08, 2019, 12:50:08 PM
Quote from: ThunderStruck2010 on February 08, 2019, 12:34:16 PM
- Long time reader, first time poster. -


Wheaton has announced the hiring of CJ Nightingale as their new defensive coordinator. Nightingale is a former Wheaton CB who was the linebackers coach at Indiana Wesleyan University in 2018.

CJ replaces JJ Clark who departed for - oddly enough - Indiana Wesleyan University. 

https://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2019/2/8/cj-nightingale-named-defensive-coordinator-for-the-thunder-football-program.aspx?fbclid=IwAR21EnJ3SGVu-yPbduags4VhvF8TE_RMrwNHHXILnahpQCVMTJPiYPU_jl4

Any future draft picks or cash considerations as part of this trade?

Someone probably receives a home scrimmage to be scheduled later. And a bag of balls.

Hey Pat:

A bag of balls is a good thing!  Always good to have those!  :)

Hope you and family are doing well and surviving this crazy winter weather pattern.
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

AndOne

Quote from: devildog29 on February 06, 2019, 05:11:31 PM
Quote from: 79jaybird on February 06, 2019, 03:21:57 PM
Well, being married to a Prof at EC, I see/hear some tidbits.  Plus, my experiences on and off the fields at EC,  I have always felt this-   Elmhurst likes the "showers" that come with having athletics, but reality is athletics will ALWAYS be a "We have it just to have it" kind of repor.  You don't go to Elmhurst for Athletics.  You come to Elmhurst for a great Education and oh by the way, if you like to play (X sport), we have a team you can join.   

So you have a half*** approach towards athletics,  plus geographically it is often too close to home (backyard) for a stud recruit, so they choose other schools,  creates a double whammy.  Look at Nathan Wallick a few years back.  A stud from Elmhurst, but chose Millikin.  As I recall, Elmhurst really lobbied hard to get him.

President Cureton did not value athletics like we all would like to see.  Ray liked sports, and pushed hard to get Lacrosse (because of his native am ancestry).   Van Aiken while still in his infancy is showing signs that he is going to be a proponent of athletics.

This is also why IMO, I was hoping to see a HC with some experience who knows how to deal with the top level Admin obstacles that frequently come into play.   

Jaybird, I just don't get this 'too close to home' argument as it doesn't seem to hurt NCC at all.

Devil,

While many NCC rosters are stocked with suburban Chicago kids, you might be surprised at the number of times NCC's proximity to other suburbs actually works against them. Granted, the advantages of being located in Naperville certainly overshadow the disadvantages. However, there are more instances than you probably guess where being located in Naperville actually works against the Cardinals. I think there are a lot more kids that have the desire to spread their wings and expand their horizons than many people think. I myself was one. I went to high school 12 miles from Naperville, but there was absolutely zero chance I would have chosen NCC. I wanted to go go someplace I hadn't been before, and even though I loved my parents, I really wanted to get out from under their protective wings and start charting my own way a little more. And while many kids don't go really far from home, many go more than a couple of hours away, and do so purposely.
I'm not very familiar with suburbs other than Naperville where I live, but there if you listen to Naperville kids (and I'd bet many other suburbs as well) you would hear a good number say things like "I've lived in Naperville my whole (or almost whole) life. I'm tired of seeing the same scenery every day, of shopping in the same stores (even though Naperville has tons), of eating in the same restaurants (also tons), of having the same places to hang out, and even of seeing the same people (even friends) every day." As examples, I can look out my windows and see the houses of 5 kids who are currently in college who were HS athletes. 1 goes to school in IL (2 hrs away), 1 in KY, 1 in IN, and 2 in MO. None of them considered staying local for college.
Going one step further, just off the top of my head, I can site 3 cases of Naperville kids not only getting out of town in recent years, but landing at a school that I believe is dear to your heart. Naperville Central HS is a few blocks down the street from North Central. However, in fairly recent years, I know of not 1, but 2 football linebackers from Naper Central who not only landed at IWU, but who were stars there. And before that there was a kid that NCC recruited heavily who was an all conference player in both basketball and baseball that ended up in Bloomington. His parents were ready to write NCC a check in a minute, but the kid wouldn't hear of it. He told us basically what I stated above about kids wanting to "escape" from Naperville. And while Bloomington is only 111 miles away, it surely isn't just 3 blocks down the street!
Happens more often than you think.  ;)

Also—Someone prev mentioned the frequency with which North Central rosters are populated by suburban Chicago kids. Well, duh! Chicago is the 3rd most populated area of the country. Even if many suburban kids want to fly the local scene, there are always still many times more that, for a variety of reasons, exercise a desire to remain local. In fact, there are still so many that favor staying local that the sheer numbers of such kids basically muffle the stories of the kids who take the opposite approach as did the 3 I referenced above—again, all of which NCC would have loved to have had.  :)

devildog29

Quote from: AndOne on February 08, 2019, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: devildog29 on February 06, 2019, 05:11:31 PM
Quote from: 79jaybird on February 06, 2019, 03:21:57 PM
Well, being married to a Prof at EC, I see/hear some tidbits.  Plus, my experiences on and off the fields at EC,  I have always felt this-   Elmhurst likes the "showers" that come with having athletics, but reality is athletics will ALWAYS be a "We have it just to have it" kind of repor.  You don't go to Elmhurst for Athletics.  You come to Elmhurst for a great Education and oh by the way, if you like to play (X sport), we have a team you can join.   

So you have a half*** approach towards athletics,  plus geographically it is often too close to home (backyard) for a stud recruit, so they choose other schools,  creates a double whammy.  Look at Nathan Wallick a few years back.  A stud from Elmhurst, but chose Millikin.  As I recall, Elmhurst really lobbied hard to get him.

President Cureton did not value athletics like we all would like to see.  Ray liked sports, and pushed hard to get Lacrosse (because of his native am ancestry).   Van Aiken while still in his infancy is showing signs that he is going to be a proponent of athletics.

This is also why IMO, I was hoping to see a HC with some experience who knows how to deal with the top level Admin obstacles that frequently come into play.   

Jaybird, I just don't get this 'too close to home' argument as it doesn't seem to hurt NCC at all.

Devil,

While many NCC rosters are stocked with suburban Chicago kids, you might be surprised at the number of times NCC's proximity to other suburbs actually works against them. Granted, the advantages of being located in Naperville certainly overshadow the disadvantages. However, there are more instances than you probably guess where being located in Naperville actually works against the Cardinals. I think there are a lot more kids that have the desire to spread their wings and expand their horizons than many people think. I myself was one. I went to high school 12 miles from Naperville, but there was absolutely zero chance I would have chosen NCC. I wanted to go go someplace I hadn't been before, and even though I loved my parents, I really wanted to get out from under their protective wings and start charting my own way a little more. And while many kids don't go really far from home, many go more than a couple of hours away, and do so purposely.
I'm not very familiar with suburbs other than Naperville where I live, but there if you listen to Naperville kids (and I'd bet many other suburbs as well) you would hear a good number say things like "I've lived in Naperville my whole (or almost whole) life. I'm tired of seeing the same scenery every day, of shopping in the same stores (even though Naperville has tons), of eating in the same restaurants (also tons), of having the same places to hang out, and even of seeing the same people (even friends) every day." As examples, I can look out my windows and see the houses of 5 kids who are currently in college who were HS athletes. 1 goes to school in IL (2 hrs away), 1 in KY, 1 in IN, and 2 in MO. None of them considered staying local for college.
Going one step further, just off the top of my head, I can site 3 cases of Naperville kids not only getting out of town in recent years, but landing at a school that I believe is dear to your heart. Naperville Central HS is a few blocks down the street from North Central. However, in fairly recent years, I know of not 1, but 2 football linebackers from Naper Central who not only landed at IWU, but who were stars there. And before that there was a kid that NCC recruited heavily who was an all conference player in both basketball and baseball that ended up in Bloomington. His parents were ready to write NCC a check in a minute, but the kid wouldn't hear of it. He told us basically what I stated above about kids wanting to "escape" from Naperville. And while Bloomington is only 111 miles away, it surely isn't just 3 blocks down the street!
Happens more often than you think.  ;)

Also—Someone prev mentioned the frequency with which North Central rosters are populated by suburban Chicago kids. Well, duh! Chicago is the 3rd most populated area of the country. Even if many suburban kids want to fly the local scene, there are always still many times more that, for a variety of reasons, exercise a desire to remain local. In fact, there are still so many that favor staying local that the sheer numbers of such kids basically muffle the stories of the kids who take the opposite approach as did the 3 I referenced above—again, all of which NCC would have loved to have had.  :)

I don't dispute this anecdotally.  There will always be those who want to get away from home for school.  I do, however, dispute the notion this is the norm.  As Sager pointed out, more times than not, proximity is a benefit, not detriment.  If anything, NCC shows a coaching staff and administration that supports the program are much more important than proximity. 
Hail, Hail, the gang's all here, all out for Wesleyan!

formerd3db

Quote from: devildog29 on February 08, 2019, 05:11:36 PM
Quote from: AndOne on February 08, 2019, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: devildog29 on February 06, 2019, 05:11:31 PM
Quote from: 79jaybird on February 06, 2019, 03:21:57 PM
Well, being married to a Prof at EC, I see/hear some tidbits.  Plus, my experiences on and off the fields at EC,  I have always felt this-   Elmhurst likes the "showers" that come with having athletics, but reality is athletics will ALWAYS be a "We have it just to have it" kind of repor.  You don't go to Elmhurst for Athletics.  You come to Elmhurst for a great Education and oh by the way, if you like to play (X sport), we have a team you can join.   

So you have a half*** approach towards athletics,  plus geographically it is often too close to home (backyard) for a stud recruit, so they choose other schools,  creates a double whammy.  Look at Nathan Wallick a few years back.  A stud from Elmhurst, but chose Millikin.  As I recall, Elmhurst really lobbied hard to get him.

President Cureton did not value athletics like we all would like to see.  Ray liked sports, and pushed hard to get Lacrosse (because of his native am ancestry).   Van Aiken while still in his infancy is showing signs that he is going to be a proponent of athletics.

This is also why IMO, I was hoping to see a HC with some experience who knows how to deal with the top level Admin obstacles that frequently come into play.   

Jaybird, I just don't get this 'too close to home' argument as it doesn't seem to hurt NCC at all.

Devil,

While many NCC rosters are stocked with suburban Chicago kids, you might be surprised at the number of times NCC's proximity to other suburbs actually works against them. Granted, the advantages of being located in Naperville certainly overshadow the disadvantages. However, there are more instances than you probably guess where being located in Naperville actually works against the Cardinals. I think there are a lot more kids that have the desire to spread their wings and expand their horizons than many people think. I myself was one. I went to high school 12 miles from Naperville, but there was absolutely zero chance I would have chosen NCC. I wanted to go go someplace I hadn't been before, and even though I loved my parents, I really wanted to get out from under their protective wings and start charting my own way a little more. And while many kids don't go really far from home, many go more than a couple of hours away, and do so purposely.
I'm not very familiar with suburbs other than Naperville where I live, but there if you listen to Naperville kids (and I'd bet many other suburbs as well) you would hear a good number say things like "I've lived in Naperville my whole (or almost whole) life. I'm tired of seeing the same scenery every day, of shopping in the same stores (even though Naperville has tons), of eating in the same restaurants (also tons), of having the same places to hang out, and even of seeing the same people (even friends) every day." As examples, I can look out my windows and see the houses of 5 kids who are currently in college who were HS athletes. 1 goes to school in IL (2 hrs away), 1 in KY, 1 in IN, and 2 in MO. None of them considered staying local for college.
Going one step further, just off the top of my head, I can site 3 cases of Naperville kids not only getting out of town in recent years, but landing at a school that I believe is dear to your heart. Naperville Central HS is a few blocks down the street from North Central. However, in fairly recent years, I know of not 1, but 2 football linebackers from Naper Central who not only landed at IWU, but who were stars there. And before that there was a kid that NCC recruited heavily who was an all conference player in both basketball and baseball that ended up in Bloomington. His parents were ready to write NCC a check in a minute, but the kid wouldn't hear of it. He told us basically what I stated above about kids wanting to "escape" from Naperville. And while Bloomington is only 111 miles away, it surely isn't just 3 blocks down the street!
Happens more often than you think.  ;)

Also—Someone prev mentioned the frequency with which North Central rosters are populated by suburban Chicago kids. Well, duh! Chicago is the 3rd most populated area of the country. Even if many suburban kids want to fly the local scene, there are always still many times more that, for a variety of reasons, exercise a desire to remain local. In fact, there are still so many that favor staying local that the sheer numbers of such kids basically muffle the stories of the kids who take the opposite approach as did the 3 I referenced above—again, all of which NCC would have loved to have had.  :)

I don't dispute this anecdotally.  There will always be those who want to get away from home for school.  I do, however, dispute the notion this is the norm.  As Sager pointed out, more times than not, proximity is a benefit, not detriment.  If anything, NCC shows a coaching staff and administration that supports the program are much more important than proximity.

Without question, you guys know the situation there, of which I do not.  However, I will say that this does happen quite often at other college communities (I can give you several examples in the MIAA-many good players, who don't receive scholarship offers, simply do not want to stay at their local hometown, home area college and enroll at other MIAA schools-of course, there are other factors often involved with that as well).  Also, anecdotal or not, anecdotal examples cannot be discounted at all because those are real situations that happen and not a figment of any person's imagination who it happens to.  I have always had a problem with anecdotal being discounted in anything (this includes in medicine and many studies in that discipline today) as while, of course, one looks for an overall trend in whatever the subject is, unless the incidents that happen are isolated and extreme single numbers, they are a reality and cannot be discounted in any way.  I understand what your point is in looking at trends, but I also agree with Mark and Devildog in what they are relating.  Anyway, good discussion!  Interesting to hear about each person's own experience and/or knowledge of those who have gone through that decision process.     
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

devildog29

Anecdotal is, of course, real on the individual, micro level.  I'm merely saying that the anecdotal is the minority and in aggregate, shouldn't be a detriment. 
Hail, Hail, the gang's all here, all out for Wesleyan!

AndOne

Devil,

Regarding kids who want to get away for school you stated, "I do, however, dispute the notion that this is the norm."
Did I really say wanting to get away is the norm?

I said, "Even if many suburban kids want to fly the local scene, there are always still many times more that, for a variety of reasons, exercise a desire to remain local." Also, as far as kids who do stay local, I said "the sheer numbers of such kids (who stay local)............................."

Do those 2 statements really sound like I'm saying kids who want to get away to school are the norm? I'm just honestly having a hard time seeing that's what I said. I really don't even think I even implied that is the case let alone directly stated it. Am I wrong?

devildog29

Quote from: AndOne on February 08, 2019, 06:13:43 PM
Devil,

Regarding kids who want to get away for school you stated, "I do, however, dispute the notion that this is the norm."
Did I really say wanting to get away is the norm?

I said, "Even if many suburban kids want to fly the local scene, there are always still many times more that, for a variety of reasons, exercise a desire to remain local." Also, as far as kids who do stay local, I said "the sheer numbers of such kids (who stay local)............................."

Do those 2 statements really sound like I'm saying kids who want to get away to school are the norm? I'm just honestly having a hard time seeing that's what I said. I really don't even think I even implied that is the case let alone directly stated it. Am I wrong?

I wasn't specifically addressing nor disputing you.
Hail, Hail, the gang's all here, all out for Wesleyan!

formerd3db

#36683
Quote from: devildog29 on February 08, 2019, 06:19:09 PM
Quote from: AndOne on February 08, 2019, 06:13:43 PM
Devil,

Regarding kids who want to get away for school you stated, "I do, however, dispute the notion that this is the norm."
Did I really say wanting to get away is the norm?

I said, "Even if many suburban kids want to fly the local scene, there are always still many times more that, for a variety of reasons, exercise a desire to remain local." Also, as far as kids who do stay local, I said "the sheer numbers of such kids (who stay local)............................."

Do those 2 statements really sound like I'm saying kids who want to get away to school are the norm? I'm just honestly having a hard time seeing that's what I said. I really don't even think I even implied that is the case let alone directly stated it. Am I wrong?

I wasn't specifically addressing nor disputing you.

Come on Devildog, calm down. :)  Regardless of whether you were addressing him or not, both of you are just sharing your own opinions on this topic of discussion, which, of course, anyone can and is welcome to do so here on any of the boards.  There is nothing wrong with that even if there are differences of opinion or "disputes" among us to use your term. That's what these boards are for, otherwise, none of us should bother with this/post anything.  As I said, this was a good discussion (legit topic as well.)
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

Gregory Sager

I think that we're all saying the same thing, just in different ways:

1) Proximity is an overall asset in recruiting, because most high schoolers choose a college close to home; but
2) Since there will always be a certain number of high schoolers who actively seek to "go away to school" or who choose a school located a substantial distance from home for reasons unrelated to proximity, there will always be athletics prospects who run counter to the trend described in #1.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

formerd3db

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2019, 07:55:37 PM
I think that we're all saying the same thing, just in different ways:

1) Proximity is an overall asset in recruiting, because most high schoolers choose a college close to home; but
2) Since there will always be a certain number of high schoolers who actively seek to "go away to school" or who choose a school located a substantial distance from home for reasons unrelated to proximity, there will always be athletics prospects who run counter to the trend described in #1.

Well said, good post, Gregory.  Agreed!
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

AndOne

The point being that the vast majority will always be choosing schools close (within 100 miles or so) to home, but that there are more kids than many people realize who choose schools farther away.

Also, as formerd3db very accurately states the whole purpose of these boards is to be able to express opinions which sometimes will naturally be met with disagreement by other posters. The problem is that often times rather than articulating the basis for their disagreement, other people who aren't interested in hearing any opinion other than their own just resort to dinging the other person. Just for stating that I think a lot more kids want to go away to school than many people realize (and backing up that assertion with 3 specific instances that I'm aware of) three people, who don't even have the guts to indicate why they might disagree, zinged me. I didn't insult, demean, or in any way criticize either any institution or individual. Just stated an opinion about a pretty mundane subject. Unfortunately, thats all it takes for some people. Kind of ridiculous.

Mr. Ypsi

AndOne, until your negative karma reaches 3200+, kwitcher bitchin'!  (The great majority of mine came from being the sole liberal on the late, unlamented Politics board.  Since Pat didn't count posts there for posting totals, it seems pretty unfair that it DID count for karma totals.)

Gregory Sager

Chuck, I had always thought that you racked up all of those karma smites because other posters were envious of your good looks. ;)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Mr. Ypsi

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 08, 2019, 11:15:00 PM
Chuck, I had always thought that you racked up all of those karma smites because other posters were envious of your good looks. ;)

Of my brains or personality, conceivably (though doubtful).  Of my looks, not even Quasimodo is envious. :(

I'm like the standard joke about Garrison Keillor: "His looks are just made for radio."