FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

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wally_wabash

Quote from: fishermba on January 12, 2017, 12:27:00 PM
To an interested coach, what's a better job... BW or JCU?

Is this a trick question?
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

fishermba

Not a trick. I would assume JCU by a wide margin but didn't know if I was missing something. Maybe the pay at BW was a ton more.

Dr. Acula

Looks like the block RAIDERS on the jersey is coming back.  I'm a big fan of that little nod to tradition.

New purple jersey

wally_wabash

Quote from: fishermba on January 12, 2017, 01:33:35 PM
Not a trick. I would assume JCU by a wide margin but didn't know if I was missing something. Maybe the pay at BW was a ton more.

Ah good.  I thought I was the one missing something. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

Onward on, John Carroll

Quote from: wally_wabash on January 12, 2017, 01:54:47 PM
Quote from: fishermba on January 12, 2017, 01:33:35 PM
Not a trick. I would assume JCU by a wide margin but didn't know if I was missing something. Maybe the pay at BW was a ton more.

Ah good.  I thought I was the one missing something.

I don't know that it is that obvious.  I am partial to JCU but when I look at BW, I think they have a great, tradition-rich stadium, a nice following and a fine reputation to which to recruit.  I think JCU has a slightly better academic reputation but, at the end of the day, it's not elite or even close to on par with Wooster, Denison and Kenyon.  They both have similar budgets, support facilities and access to the same talent pool(s).  At the end of the day, they are both jobs where, 24 out of the last 25 years and until Mount comes way down the mountain, you need to go 9-1 to make the playoffs and in order to win your conference you need to have a nationally relevant program.  That is a tall order. 

fishermba

How much of JCUs search is "let's post the job and see who applies" vs "actively go out and recruit a new coach that intrigues you"???

Onward on, John Carroll

Quote from: fishermba on January 12, 2017, 02:30:08 PM
How much of JCUs search is "let's post the job and see who applies" vs "actively go out and recruit a new coach that intrigues you"???

No idea. However, I would say that targeted searches, while popular at high end high schools and big time colleges, are less effective at D3 colleges due to the fact that very few, if any, D3 schools will break the bank to get someone they want.  In short, they cannot appear to be to eager because, at the end of the day, the job is the job and the salary is the salary and the budget is the budget.  Unless you are going after a D3 assistant or a VERY young (READ:  low on the salary scale) high school coach, you start running into wage compression issues with people. 

When Mount was hiring Fuline as basketball coach a few year back (out of Jackson High School), I know they targeted him and put together a package that was 15-20% than they were paying Lee Hood.  It was still not what he was making at Jackson.  Same thing when JCU hired Regis, after not being able to lure Chuck Kyle from Ignatius, they looked at Thom McDaniel from McKinley and while there is a dispute as to whether JCU would have ultimately offered the job, Thom's salary expectation was 5 figures out of JCU's comfort zone.

So, in short, I am sure there were some calls made but this is not a situation where you can pick your guy and "go after him."  You don't have enough bullets in your gun.

wally_wabash

Quote from: fishermba on January 12, 2017, 02:30:08 PM
How much of JCUs search is "let's post the job and see who applies" vs "actively go out and recruit a new coach that intrigues you"???

The sense I get is that it's a bit of both.  Most ADs (the good ones, for sure) will have a short list of people that they would call should one of their coaching jobs come open.  Certainly you post it and do the whole "national search" thing, because you never know 1) that anybody on your short list would apply/accept or 2) who else out there might be interested. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

Dr. Acula

Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on January 12, 2017, 02:13:23 PM
Quote from: wally_wabash on January 12, 2017, 01:54:47 PM
Quote from: fishermba on January 12, 2017, 01:33:35 PM
Not a trick. I would assume JCU by a wide margin but didn't know if I was missing something. Maybe the pay at BW was a ton more.

Ah good.  I thought I was the one missing something.

I don't know that it is that obvious.  I am partial to JCU but when I look at BW, I think they have a great, tradition-rich stadium, a nice following and a fine reputation to which to recruit.  I think JCU has a slightly better academic reputation but, at the end of the day, it's not elite or even close to on par with Wooster, Denison and Kenyon.  They both have similar budgets, support facilities and access to the same talent pool(s).  At the end of the day, they are both jobs where, 24 out of the last 25 years and until Mount comes way down the mountain, you need to go 9-1 to make the playoffs and in order to win your conference you need to have a nationally relevant program.  That is a tall order.

One advantage JCU does have is the Catholic angle.  They have been able to take advantage of that in many sports for years to get not only local parochial kids, but often times kids from places that BW may not recruit normally.  For example, I know they've had some good baseball players from Catholic schools in Chicago and Boston.  Not that it's a deal maker, but it's a nice asset to add to an already impressive list. 

Also, you didn't mention the school colors.  Massive advantage JCU.   ;D

gizzmo13

is there a cap to what a d3 coach can make a year?

Pat Coleman

No -- no caps like that in any sport at any NCAA level.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Onward on, John Carroll

Quote from: gizzmo13 on January 12, 2017, 04:10:56 PM
is there a cap to what a d3 coach can make a year?

They are capped only by their budgets which are usually tight due to the fact that athletic departments rarely are able to generate significant ticket revenue or fundraising dollars even in the major or "revenue" sports like football and boys basketball. 

Dr. Acula

Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on January 12, 2017, 02:45:00 PM
Quote from: fishermba on January 12, 2017, 02:30:08 PM
How much of JCUs search is "let's post the job and see who applies" vs "actively go out and recruit a new coach that intrigues you"???

No idea. However, I would say that targeted searches, while popular at high end high schools and big time colleges, are less effective at D3 colleges due to the fact that very few, if any, D3 schools will break the bank to get someone they want.  In short, they cannot appear to be to eager because, at the end of the day, the job is the job and the salary is the salary and the budget is the budget.  Unless you are going after a D3 assistant or a VERY young (READ:  low on the salary scale) high school coach, you start running into wage compression issues with people. 

When Mount was hiring Fuline as basketball coach a few year back (out of Jackson High School), I know they targeted him and put together a package that was 15-20% than they were paying Lee Hood.  It was still not what he was making at Jackson.  Same thing when JCU hired Regis, after not being able to lure Chuck Kyle from Ignatius, they looked at Thom McDaniel from McKinley and while there is a dispute as to whether JCU would have ultimately offered the job, Thom's salary expectation was 5 figures out of JCU's comfort zone.

So, in short, I am sure there were some calls made but this is not a situation where you can pick your guy and "go after him."  You don't have enough bullets in your gun.

You're exactly right on the young HS coach thing.  That's a great point.  You start moving up the scale in the HS ranks then all of a sudden a D3 school is fighting with one hand tied behind their back.  Take the Fuline example, not only is he not making more salary, but he is also almost certainly paying more for his benefits and he is also walking away from STRS pension.  That's a lot of things the D3 school has to overcome, especially if the candidate has a family.

Onward on, John Carroll

Quote from: Dr. Acula on January 12, 2017, 04:29:12 PM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on January 12, 2017, 02:45:00 PM
Quote from: fishermba on January 12, 2017, 02:30:08 PM
How much of JCUs search is "let's post the job and see who applies" vs "actively go out and recruit a new coach that intrigues you"???

No idea. However, I would say that targeted searches, while popular at high end high schools and big time colleges, are less effective at D3 colleges due to the fact that very few, if any, D3 schools will break the bank to get someone they want.  In short, they cannot appear to be to eager because, at the end of the day, the job is the job and the salary is the salary and the budget is the budget.  Unless you are going after a D3 assistant or a VERY young (READ:  low on the salary scale) high school coach, you start running into wage compression issues with people. 

When Mount was hiring Fuline as basketball coach a few year back (out of Jackson High School), I know they targeted him and put together a package that was 15-20% than they were paying Lee Hood.  It was still not what he was making at Jackson.  Same thing when JCU hired Regis, after not being able to lure Chuck Kyle from Ignatius, they looked at Thom McDaniel from McKinley and while there is a dispute as to whether JCU would have ultimately offered the job, Thom's salary expectation was 5 figures out of JCU's comfort zone.

So, in short, I am sure there were some calls made but this is not a situation where you can pick your guy and "go after him."  You don't have enough bullets in your gun.

You're exactly right on the young HS coach thing.  That's a great point.  You start moving up the scale in the HS ranks then all of a sudden a D3 school is fighting with one hand tied behind their back.  Take the Fuline example, not only is he not making more salary, but he is also almost certainly paying more for his benefits and he is also walking away from STRS pension.  That's a lot of things the D3 school has to overcome, especially if the candidate has a family.

Fuline does get the free college tuition at Mount (and at those colleges with reciprocity) for his many children which is a nice benefit, but, at the end of the day, his kids were so young, I wonder if that felt like a real benefit.  You are able to purchase 5 years of private schools experience and credit it to STRS (though it is not cheap) so if Fuline wanted to go back, he should not stay past his 5th year at Mount (which may be this season). I think BW had a coach come from public schools and then go back and I have to imagine that STRS played a role in that decision.

Retirement aside, and focused only on salary, if you are at a large public school district, you have a Master's Degree and you have 12-15 years experience (making you between 34 and 37 years old), between a coaching stipend and a teacher salary, you are likely making $75,000, give or take $10K.  That is a lot of dough and that is not even counting camp and in-house league money which, I assume, can be considerable at a place like Jackson where affluent parents line up from a young age to get in the good graces of the program and them men who run it.

While many people would be surpised, that is a lot more money than most every D3 coach out there.  I assume Steve Moore at Wooster might make $75K-$85K and clean up a little bit on his camps but I cannot think of another D3 hoops coach that I would bet makes more than that.  I could be wrong but I would guess the average salary in the OAC would be in the $55K-$65 range.

raiderpa

What about affluent boosters ponying up bucks for coaches?  I know some major schools have foundations or the like that pay for a football scholarships or teaching positions, i.e.. department heads, which save general budget monies.
Wonder if any smaller school has approached the issue with "sponsoring" coaching salaries?