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Division III basketball (Posting Up) => Men's Basketball => Region 3 men's basketball => Topic started by: Pat Cummings on March 01, 2005, 07:38:14 PM

Title: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Cummings on March 01, 2005, 07:38:14 PM
FYI

The NCAA in association with D3hoops.com will be webcasting the audio from Thursday's Union/Gwynedd Mercy game.  The audio page on D3hoops will link to NCAAsports.com for the links to the broadcast.  I'll be on the call.  Hope you can tune in.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: j2theb on March 01, 2005, 07:59:48 PM
will any other ll teams have a shot at the postseason, or is the league's aq the only one?
Title: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on March 02, 2005, 08:30:59 AM
That question was put to rest on Monday - Skidmore and Hobart will go to the Upstate ECAC tourney starting tonight.  Hamilton was left out (perhaps they declined?) and RPI disappointingly was uninvited, to an Ithaca team with a .500 record for the 8th and final spot.  The ECAC tourney is a regional only tourney - 8 teams this week in the Upstate - there are 4 regional tourneys, but the 4 winners do not play on.
Obviously Union is the LL's only NCAA bid.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: John "No Nickname Needed" McGraw on March 02, 2005, 11:44:46 AM
Actually Hobart is forced to play Plattsburgh this afternoon in Geneva because their women's team opens up play tonight in the NCAA Tournament against Washington and Jefferson at 7:00pm. So the Plattsburgh-'Bart game is at 3:00pm.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: j2theb on March 02, 2005, 02:39:13 PM
hmm - i think the plays of the week was from the Union-Hobart game.  i saw the highlight from the last shot was shown on the local news last night out here in los angeles.

good luck against the port - go bart!
Title: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on March 02, 2005, 03:05:56 PM
actually it was the Union-Hamilton game where Union's guy hit the three pointer right before the half. Good luck to all the Liberty League teams still playing!
Title: Liberty League
Post by: j2theb on March 02, 2005, 03:15:55 PM
you can catch hobart-bport game updates online at:

http://campus.hws.edu/athletics/hobart/basketball/live/xlive.htm
Title: Liberty League
Post by: j2theb on March 02, 2005, 03:54:58 PM
hobart up 42-40 at the half.  beating bport by 3pters and turnovers so far.  statesmen only shooting 43% from the floor otherwise.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: j2theb on March 02, 2005, 04:25:53 PM
shows you i haven't been paying attention!  hobart is playing plattsburgh!  

hobart currently up 7 with about 6 mins to play
Title: Liberty League
Post by: j2theb on March 02, 2005, 04:51:27 PM
looks like this one's in the books - hobart 88 - plattsburgh 74.  congrats hobart!  

after playing close for most of the game, bart began to run away around 6 mins to play.  never lead by less than 8.

flacke leads the statesmen with 24 pts.  3 other statesmen had double digits in this one (would have had 5 total if mastro got 1 more pt for hobart).  gibbs from platts lead all scorers with 30.

stats of the game (my opinion) -  

plattsburgh - 21.7% (5/23) from 3pts, 20 turnovers committed
hobart - 12 steals, 43.8% (7/16) from 3 pts, 78.1% from the FT line (25/32)

interesting to note that plattsburgh out rebounded hobart 42 to 33 and lost by 14!
Title: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 02, 2005, 07:09:40 PM
Hopefan, it should be no surprise that Ithaca was chosen over RPI.  IC's SOSI was 8.591 to RPI's 8.500, and Ithaca had five games against St. John Fisher and RIT (not to mention Potsdam)when RPI played nobody nearly as good. Both lost by about 7 pts to Buena Vista.

RPI went 1-3 against Clarkson and St. Lawrence. Nobody who does that should go to any postseason, frankly.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on March 03, 2005, 07:28:05 AM
Caz, I'll take your positives with Ithaca, However, can come back with the fact that RPI swept LL tourney winner Union, and swept LL conference winner Hobart.  Ithaca Playing 2 good teams and going 0-5 is unimpressive, RPI beating good teams shows potential.  Unfortunately RPI was horrible against teams they should have beaten this season, so I understand your comment regarding RPI's losses to SLU and Clarkson.  In fact, as I now examine Ithaca's record, about the only feather in their cap was beating Cortland twice - not much else to brag about.  (And their performance last night adds to the argument) Well it's in the past..
Title: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2005, 02:33:38 PM
Just a reminder that the Gwynedd-Mercy/Union game tonight will be webcast by the NCAA using D3hoops.com personnel. http://www.d3hoops.com/audio for more information.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: unbearable on March 03, 2005, 09:31:17 PM
Congrats to Union on their NCAA win! Go Dutchmen.  Now if you could please take out U of R, that would be most helpful.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: Unionbball on March 04, 2005, 02:49:25 AM
Just saw the Dutchmen beat Gwynedd-Mercy 84-70.  Congrats to the other LL teams that won, but Union is the real story tonight.
After what many of you called a lackluster regular season, the Dutchmen have flicked on that switch and  are playing the best ball of their season.  They contained the All American Gaye, and against hit three pointers.  They did not fold under the Griffins pressure, and really controlled throughout.

U of R will provide a true true test
Title: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 04, 2005, 11:31:41 AM
Congrats to Union.....as i said all along they underachieved.....they only lost 1 senior from last year.......yet they struggled all season.

i dont see them beating U of R.  I don't think they have enough weapons.  But I'll be rooting for them.

As for Hamilton, it's clear that there continues to be a problem there.

How does Mike Evans go from making 9 three-point shots in one game (setting a Hamilton record) in the season finale-------------and then hardly play in 2 games in the Libery League Tourney?

A lot of questions up at Hamilton, but not a lot of answers.

Going into next season they would have to be the favorite in the LL.  Only lose 1 senior.  But can they put the pieces together?
Title: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on March 04, 2005, 08:24:33 PM
Congratulations to Union! Great game last night - Gwynedd-Mercy jumps out to a quick 6-0 lead and the Dutchmen outscore them by 20 the rest of the way. The entire team played great including good bench minutes for Rahill, Grimm, Ramey. Fantastic shooting by Cagianello, sound leadership by Murphy, sound all-around games by Bruce, Scordato and Mackey. A true TEAM win. Good luck in Rochester!
Title: Liberty League
Post by: Unionbball on March 05, 2005, 10:25:43 AM
Union lost 2 seniors last year Imbrie Packard and Ryan Freundlich
Title: Liberty League
Post by: interestedparty on March 05, 2005, 11:47:40 AM
Go Union!
Title: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 05, 2005, 01:27:31 PM
well union still underachieved during the regular season.  having returned the players they returned, they should have been 1 or 2 in the league----------but i guess it doesnt matter anymore.  they won the tourney and made it the ncaa's.........we'll see how they do this evening.  i'd think they would lose by 10-15 points.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: Bigdaddy on March 05, 2005, 02:03:20 PM
I think Union will lose by 5....but I hope they win.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: Not In The Bulb on March 05, 2005, 02:35:13 PM
I have no vested interest in either team, but I'll pick UR in this one because a)it's at the Palestra, and b)the UAA is a much better conference than any of the upstate NY conferences. Also, for selfish reasons, I want Sectionals here in Rochester. It'd be a travesty if they were elsewhere with the the way Fisher has played this year.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: BJ on March 05, 2005, 11:40:58 PM
Hey Bulb go read the post in the SUNYAC thread by I think Old Hooper or something like that. He says Sectionals should go through Amherst and backs it up with some interesting stats.

Tell us how Fisher got outscored by 10 in the second half tonight.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: Senator Frost on March 05, 2005, 11:55:05 PM
"With the way Fisher has played." Yes they have played well but Amherst has a better SOSI by a lot. Fisher has won four games in the NCAA (I believe) in the past 10+ years. I believe they have lost 8 (maybe 9) Has anyone in the conference won 2 games in the NCAA Tourney in one year? I don't think Fisher has.
 I am not going to say NESCAC is better than the WIAC but it sure has been a LOT better than the Empire 8 for the past 10+ years.
  SOSI=Amherst12.160  St. John 10.957
 So if the home games are going to be awarded on merit, tell me WHY(?) Amherst shouldn't get it? Your 'Selfish Reason" is the only one that makes any sense to me.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: col on March 06, 2005, 09:14:02 AM
Senator, what does "the past 10+" have to do with merit this year
Title: Liberty League
Post by: bball fan on March 06, 2005, 09:26:42 AM
2 teams in the area, game should be in Rochester or area.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: Senator Frost on March 06, 2005, 09:31:36 AM
10+=is verification of the SOSI. You are right in that by itself it would mean almost nothing. If this were between Amherst and Stevens Point, Stevens fans could make a somewhat persuasive argument that their conference is far better and that the SOSI is misleading.
However, in St John's case it may be shown that St. John and others from the Empire 8 (if there have been any) have consistenly lost to teams in the tourney that NESCAC wipes the floor with.
 I have said that this particular St. John's team looks like it might be special but the objective criteria that has been put in place would indicate that Amherst is a clear choice. (Emotions aside)
 I would take heart if I were in your shoes because it looks as if for the second year in a row, Amherst may have been 'jobbed' by the brackets. All teams from your area would have to travel, but they flew Wittenberg to Bowdoin last year (900+miles) when Bowdoin's numbers were better. If Amherst is not given the same 'deal'I will wonder.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: col on March 06, 2005, 09:46:26 AM
I have no problem saying that Amherst is better than Fisher.  They can mop the floor if they like.  I  have never seen Amherst play, but I feel like the "objective criteria that has been put in place" does not stop at SOSI.  This bracket has two teams from Rochester.  They did not advance this far by luck. UR and Fisher are for real, whether Amherst is better or not.  I'm not even going to be in town for the games AND I consider UR and Fisher "the enemy", but I still can't understand why they shouldn't be hosting these games.

Do you really think the regionals should be held at home for Amherst or are you making the points why they could be?
Title: Liberty League
Post by: Senator Frost on March 06, 2005, 12:58:31 PM
If they had truly clung to the 'travel' concept fine. However they sent teams 900 miles so the 'top' team would host. I am not saying that the numbers are an end all. I am very realistic and hesitant about St. John because they did the same thing to Springfield AT Springfield that Amherst did to Springfield AT Amherst. Only an idiot would not be very impressed with that.
Perhaps I should have chosen better words than 'wipe the floor'. I maybe should have said that Hamilton is 3w 1L with Fisher in the NCAA over the years and I doubt Hamilton has ever beaten more than 1 (If that) NESCAC team in the Tourney. (Past history sort of unofficially confirms the #'S of today)
So speaking honestly-given how important the SOSI is proclaimed to be and given they sent at least 1 team 900+ mile, then yes, I honestly believe Amherst deserves to host.
I know comparative scores are tricky and often do not come out as they seem they should. However, they are still better than 50-50. Therefore I would say that St. John Fisher looks VERY VERY good.  
  Also who says Amherst is a sure thing to get by Rochester?? St. John looks better on paper than Rochester I might add, even without the SOSI. That last game with RIT looks spectacular.
(Not a word I use often)
Title: Liberty League
Post by: oldasdirt on March 06, 2005, 02:20:13 PM
I'm glad somebody mentionned UofR in their post.  That team had an early loss without its point guard who was a preseason all-american pick in Street&Street Magazine(I think).  Amherst and SJF both have pretty big hills to climb.  That being said if the committee is giving the host to Amherst because of SOSI they should have been ballsy enough to give them the top seed too.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on March 07, 2005, 02:27:16 PM
anyone know if Hamilton was invited to the ECAC's?
Title: Liberty League
Post by: Justin on March 07, 2005, 03:05:41 PM
Hamilton doesn't compete in the ECAC's as it's against NESCAC policy. NESCAC schools, as of I believe 2001 were allowed to receive at-large bids to the NCAA's and in-turn this officially ended NESCAC participation in the ECAC's. I understand Hamilton doesn't participate in the NESCAC for basketball; however, they are still bound by NESCAC rules in all sports.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on March 07, 2005, 06:58:17 PM
Justin,

Thanks for the update. Had no idea about the NESCAC restriction on the ECAC's. So if no NCAA for Hamilton then no postseason.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: d-mac on March 08, 2005, 04:41:38 PM
Basketball in Division III at this time of year... is so SWEET!!!
32 teams still have a chance at two national titles... and many teams weren't expected to get this far.
Tonight, a preview of this weekend's Sweet 16 action and preparations for the Final Four... on "Hoopsville"!!!


Wooster, Wittenburg, and Illinois Wesleyan are out of the men's bracket!
So, who in the world is still left in the Men's Road to Salem?
Well... UW-Stevens Point, Amherst, and St. John Fisher.

Trinity (TX) is still alive. Most thought they would be playing IWU on Friday night, instead they face Hanover. Tonight, we will chat with Coach Pat Cunningham about his Tigers. Their road to the Final Four is going to be a tough one.

Then there is John Carrol, who defeated Wittenburg to earn their Sweet 16 berth. Coach Mike Moran seems to have his Blue Streaks team clicking on all the right cylinders, having won the OAC before their run in the NCAA's. We will chat with Coach Moran about his upcoming game against Albion... who got by on what some say is a questionable win over Wooster.

On the women's side, not too many upsets, even though DePauw and Buena Vista were eliminated on their Road to Virginia Beach.

Wesleyan continues to surprise as they took out Staten Island to earn their Sweet 16 game against Springfield. Coach Kate Mullen will join us live on the air to talk about how this season's finish isn't what the Cardinals planned on... and how they're looking to keep dancing.

George Fox will be earning a lot of frequent flyer miles this weekend. Coach Scott Rueck has his Bruins playing very good basketball and will take on St. Benedict, who upset Buena Vista. But how are the Bruins going to handle flying across the entire length of the nation for the game(s)... we will ask Coach Rueck.

And Salem is getting ready for their tenth Men's Final Four. ODAC Commissioner Brad Bankston will join us live on the air to let us know how the preparations are going. How you can get tickets! And what else you can expect and should do while in the great city of Salem (and Roanoke), Virginia.

Oh... and of course we will chat with our regional reporters - Gordon Mann will actually join us in studio. And we will certainly take your questions and comments on the air and try and cover a very busy week of basketball.

So come join us online and LIVE from 8PM - 10PM Eastern!

"Hoopsville": only place where you can listen or chat about Division III Basketball in the nation.

Check out the "Hoopsville" page for information on how you can listen... and be a part of the show.
Title: Liberty League
Post by: Justin on July 29, 2005, 03:27:35 PM
It appears that the Hamilton bball schedule has been posted. Schedule features two exciting new tournaments and a few new non-conference matchups. The tournaments look particularly exciting, and I must say, as a fan, this is the best schedule I have seen in 3 years of watching the Continentals.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on November 09, 2005, 10:52:02 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on how the Liberty League will shape up this year?

Top five teams?
Best players?
Coaches or programs to watch?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on November 27, 2005, 12:02:46 AM
best teams.....

hamilton, hobart, and union.

best coach:  bob montana
worst coach:  tobin anderson

best player:  Giorgi Chavleishvili
                     John Cagianello
                     Tsakane Ngobeni
                     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on November 28, 2005, 02:16:02 PM
Is that true that Hamilton has the worst coach and one of the best teams???  What does Union have to replace Bruce and what are the chances for Skidmore, RPI or Clarkson?

Anyone want to throw out any early season rankings?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on November 28, 2005, 04:43:45 PM
Clarkson played Potsdam even for the first half in the North Country tournament at Clarkson.  Clarkson has a 20 person roster, with nearly everyone back from last year, plus 10 new faces.

In season opening tournament, PG Adam Larkin didn't play, apparently recovering from an injury.  Also sidelined was prize recruit 6'6" 240# Elson Pickering from Frederick Douglass Academy in NYC.

Clarkson badly outrebounded the much smaller Potsdam team, but shot very poorly, and without a true point guard, struggled at times to get the ball inside.  Potsdam actually led by 21 before emptying the bench with about 2:00 to play.

The Knights have a steady stream of 6'4" - 6'6" inside/wing players who give them a lot of length and rebounding.  If you shoot poorly against Clarkson, it could be a long night, because they can rebound from every spot on the floor.

If Larkin and Pickering return to the lineup, the Knights have enough talent to surprise people, especially teams on a two night North Country Swing.

Clarkson plays their annual non tourney game with Potsdam on Thursday night, so we'll know soon how well they adjusted to what they saw in the first contest.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on December 01, 2005, 12:10:52 AM
Union will replace Bruce inside with 6'5 soph Kyle Grimm.  Grimm played more and more minutes as the season went on last year and provices a defensive prescence, and hard nosed rebounding.  Also, in the mold of past Union big men, he has range out to the 3 pt line.

Although they havent gotten major minutes early, Union has a deep freshman class.

When it comes down to it, Caganello, Scordato and Murphy will lead this team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on December 01, 2005, 10:28:58 AM
WEOS will broadcast in game PBP of  Hobart-Ithaca during Hobart Hockey beginning at 4PM on Saturday December 3. www.weos.org on the web or 89.7 FM in the Finger Lakes or 88.1 FM in Ithaca
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on December 01, 2005, 01:41:10 PM
FYI...Next week, in addition to WEOS Radio, UPN-TV in Rochester will broadcast the Hobart-Rochester game next Wednesday night.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter on December 02, 2005, 08:16:14 AM
This is classic. So Hamilton is one of the better teams in the league with one of the worst coaches? I'm wondering how you would measure whether or not someone is a good coach? Just firing from the hip one would think it would have to be wins, correct? Take a look at his DIII record overall, especially in the frozen tundra we call Clarkson. The water cooler argument is going to be that he is a great recruiter and has good players. Well, and once again i'm just spit balling, but I have this feeling that good players won't play for bad coaches, at least not very long- let alone transfer schools for them. If Anderson is such a "bad coach" perhaps we should look at the number of players that have transferred out of his program..................I'm not good at math but the number I keep coming up with is 0. I computed it several different ways and each time I came up with the same number. I think we should sit back and watch the next three years and draw our conclusions from there. I have this feeling in three years no one will even remember how to spell Murhy, oh wait I've already forgot!

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on December 05, 2005, 08:05:18 AM
Shooter,

Tobin Anderson (Hamilton's coach) is a good recruiter (b/c he'll say anything) to get guys to play for him.

Let me also say that your attempt at humor, knocking one of the greatest coaches in Division 3 History, Tom Murphy, is not funny.  Murphy is beloved by his players and also by his peers (something that can't be said of Anderson).

Anderson's success at Hamilton (if one wants to call last season and this season success) is due in large part to the job Murphy did recruiting.  With the exception of Nick Jones and Phil Valenti, the core guys were recruited by the last coach.

When Muprhy left the team, the school interviewed a number of candidates for the job, including Bob Montana (of Union), and it is beyond dispute, that Coach Anderson was not the 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd choice of Hamilton basketball players and alumni.

Coach Anderson would be better served not playing favorites with his Clarkson transfers (Jones and Valenti), as well as the new guys on the roster this year.

If Anderson could just realize how to utilize Ngobeni and give him the minutes that he deserves, I believe Hamilton would be almost unstoppable.  With the combination of Giorgi Chavleishvili  and Tsakane Ngobeni up front, the team would be very hard to matchup with, as well as having Jones in the mix, with Welchons and Peck.

I though Anderson had a poor 1st year at Hamilton, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt this year, and see how he does, but as of now, I'd rather have a few other coaches in the Liberty League leading my team ahead of Anderson.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: John McGraw on December 05, 2005, 07:20:02 PM
***Broadcast Alert***

Tuesday night, the Hamilton Continentals play host to the SUNYIT Wildcats at the Scott Field House. It will be the first trip into the Scott Field House for current SUNYIT Head Coach and former Hamilton Head Coach Tom Murphy. It should be a fantastic night of basketball in Clinton. Pre-game is set for 7:45pm EST with the tip-off at 8:00pm. Time subject to change depending on the length of the women's game before-hand.

http://www.bcmonsters.com
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on December 07, 2005, 02:13:09 PM
Tonight, December 7, Hobart and Rochester square off at Bristol Gym. You can hear it live at www.weos.org or on WEOS, Geneva, at 89.7FM in the Finger Lakes, or 88.1FM in Ithaca. The game is also being broadcast on WYSL AM in 1040 in Rochester www.wysl1040.com. The game is being tape delayed for TV on UPN in Rochester on Sunday Night at 8PM.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on December 07, 2005, 08:33:30 PM
Congratulations to Union beating Williams at their own place. Down by 16 at the half and end up winning by six.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kant_Play on December 11, 2005, 08:35:27 AM
With the win yesterday, Hamilton is now 7 and 0.  Not a bad start to the new season.  Was anybody at the game? 
What does everyone think about the LL now that the first half is almost over, best / worst (player and coach)? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter on December 11, 2005, 06:42:02 PM
I was at the Hamilton game, i think they are a legitimate team.  When IT came back Hamilton answered an showed some leadership and clutch decision making. I truly believe w/ the lineup of Welcons, Tk, Jones, Valenti, and Georgi they can compete with anyone. I really think the new recruits that were brought in didn't miss a beat when they played. I think this team can be something special as conference play begins. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: fpc85 on December 11, 2005, 10:55:14 PM
I heard Roche at Hobart got canned
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2005, 11:28:11 PM
Don't know if that's wishful thinking on your part or what, but in-season coach firings at this level are quite rare.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: fpc85 on December 12, 2005, 09:46:42 PM
yep. He got canned...his assistant is coaching. I think it says alot about the situation
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on December 12, 2005, 10:27:30 PM
any info on why Coach Roche is out??????  potential replacements???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: skifour3 on December 13, 2005, 10:11:15 AM
Is there really any truth to Coach Roche getting fired??? That just doesn't seem right!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on December 13, 2005, 12:56:58 PM
Until you see it in print from the institution, or in media reports (and this would be suspect until confirmed by the former), how about giving this one a rest? There are a lot of reasons the coach could not be on the sidelines, including the obvious, such as illness.

I concur with Pat. At DIII, this would be unheard of, unless it involved a prison sentence, and nothing has been in the papers nor released from Hobart. It would not be the first time at Hobart or at other schools where assistants have filled in for their head coach due to illness or other matters.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter on December 13, 2005, 02:51:20 PM
Hobart's coach has indeed been fired. You can take that to print, Time magazine, USA Today, or the AP wire. Although i agree it is almost unheard of do not underestimate the power of the players when coaching issues surface.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 14, 2005, 02:17:21 AM
While I concede that it's possible, I'm wondering why someone posting from Des Moines, Iowa, has knowledge of the situation.
Title: Hobart Coach
Post by: hooplafan on December 14, 2005, 01:39:29 PM
I haven't seen or heard of anything that would lead me to believe Roche was/has been fired.  There's certainly been nothing mentioned of it in the Finger Lakes Times or Democrat & Chronicle. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter on December 14, 2005, 04:37:14 PM
four years of college ball on the east coast, among other things, but I guess I can't comment unless my url is from new york. I will refrain from further comments.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dewcrew88 on December 15, 2005, 01:51:31 PM
Quote from: Shooter on December 14, 2005, 04:37:14 PM
four years of college ball on the east coast, among other things, but I guess I can't comment unless my url is from new york. I will refrain from further comments.

I would figure that you can post anything you want, as long as you have proof that you post something that is truth.

I'm pretty sure that at least one of the local papers... either the D & C or the Finger Lakes Times or something would have had a breaking story about a college head coach being fired.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on December 15, 2005, 02:26:56 PM
One of the things that bothers me about this fired thread, is the "I heard" is the proof. Well, we were all told there were WMD's in Iraq. Interesting, no one found them and look what happened? Yes, I know that is a stretch, but why make such a claim, just because a coach is not on the sidelines for a game? And credentials of "playing college ball on the east coast for four years" does not make one Hoopsville's version of Deep Throat. If there was traction to the story, the press would have sniffed it out by now, especially the Finger Lakes Times. The D&C is a bit slower on the uptake unless it is inside Monroe County or is Syracuse. Also, you would have seen an official announcement from the college appointing an interim head coach and announcing a search.

I think it is one thing to speculate on who gets into the NCAAs and who does not, or who is a better team that night. It is entirely another to start spreading rumors about someone's career, whether a coach or student.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gobombers15 on December 16, 2005, 03:18:05 PM
Ithaca College's head coach, Jim Mullins, was not on the sidelines for either of Ithaca's games this past weekend. Assistant Gregg Hepler coached the Bombers to their first two victories of the season with victories over SLU and Potsdam after the team started the season with five consecutive losses. Was Hepler the new coach for the Bombers?

No, Mullins was just out of town at a funeral. My point, this is D3(like Pat and others have noted) and in-season firings rarely happen. Family committments, funerals, etc., are honored by coaches more often at this level than they are in Division 1.

Until there is something in writing, I'd refrain from making any assumptions or leaps of faith without substantiation.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on December 26, 2005, 10:47:30 PM
was wandering around the MAC site in the Mid-Atlantic region and a lot of talk going on about teams like Scranton either looking to join the Liberty League or form a new league with a contingent of current LL teams. Schools mentioned included Union, Hamilton, Hobart.  Anyone hear anything on this topic? ??? ???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 27, 2005, 10:16:04 PM
Just a note: Messages from people who post and then delete their username will be deleted.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on December 28, 2005, 12:50:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 27, 2005, 10:16:04 PM
Just a note: Messages from people who post and then delete their username will be deleted.
You mean If Frank or I have to join the witness protection program, we will have our posts expunged? Oh, the inhumanity!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on December 28, 2005, 01:45:34 PM
Quote from: ucaafan on December 26, 2005, 10:47:30 PM
was wandering around the MAC site in the Mid-Atlantic region and a lot of talk going on about teams like Scranton either looking to join the Liberty League or form a new league with a contingent of current LL teams. Schools mentioned included Union, Hamilton, Hobart.  Anyone hear anything on this topic? ??? ???
There is a lot of talk about conference shake ups, after the defections going on in Pennsylvania. In Football, the Liberty League loses associate member Coast Guard this year. It picks up Susquehanna in 2007. That has been talked about already on this board. However, due to the nature of Liberty League schools, there are overlapping league affiliations, even multi-divisions. Rochester plays Football and other sports in the Liberty League, but hoops and soccer in the UAA. Hamilton plays Football in the NESCAC. Some schools don't even have football: Clarkson, Vassar, Skidmore. Hockey isall over the place. Hamilton plays in the Nescac, Skidmore in the ECAC east, Clarkson, RPI, Union and St. Lawrence are DI, Hobart in the ECAC west. Rochester does not have a hockey team. There was talk of Scranton's hockey team joing ECAC West , which may still happen. Currently, they are playing "club" level hockey, while still keeping their NCAA status.
I am not in the loop when it comes to discussions of forming new conferences, but I highly doubt you would see HWS jumping ship to cross the border south too often, and the report mentioned Ithaca in the same conference? I have a feeling that won't happen either. Alfred, Ithaca, and Hartwick are probably a better fit together.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 28, 2005, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: radiomike on December 28, 2005, 12:50:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 27, 2005, 10:16:04 PM
Just a note: Messages from people who post and then delete their username will be deleted.
You mean If Frank or I have to join the witness protection program, we will have our posts expunged? Oh, the inhumanity!

Nah, there was a guy who came in, dropped one post, then deleted his name. Those are who I'm talking about. Long-term posters who are identifiable are not a problem.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on December 28, 2005, 03:26:16 PM
Hope you're not talking about me neither, I'm just being quiet over here reading posts. :)

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on January 06, 2006, 10:06:50 PM
anyone know why 5 hamilton players from the same high school  in Virginia did not play at there game on january 4?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on January 08, 2006, 11:09:10 AM
Nothing would surprise me where Coach Anderson is involved. By the way, any news on why Roche is out as coach at Hobart? Thought he was Liberty League coach of the year last year. And a graduate of Hobart as well.   ???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 09, 2006, 08:56:14 AM
I think everyone who jumped on me when i said that the Hobart coach had been fired owes me an apology. Now as far as Hamilton and the situation there I don't know what is going on. Those five players are Murphy recruits so its anyone's guess. They will need them back against Utica on Tues I can tell you that. Ya that Anderson has only lead them to an 8-0 start, best in six years, and named coach of the month, but yes I'm sure he's still one of the worst coaches in the leauge, cracks me up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: fpc85 on January 09, 2006, 10:47:33 AM
Shooter I didn't jump on you because I knew you were right.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 09, 2006, 11:31:34 AM
I appreciate it fpc, and isn't the point of these postings to be able to state things that are not to the public yet? If we are only going to say things that come out in the paper, why read the posts? I guess different strokes for different folks. Its much like the Hamilton situation, I don't know what is going on but I'd like to be able to read it here first rather than wait for the papers to get on it. Now who has knowledge of what is going on there? They will be ok as long as Nick Jones and Welchons are playing. The Hamilton team goes deep w/ the new recruits, but don't get me wrong TK is a stud so hopefully it was a one game deal and everything will be fine.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on January 09, 2006, 09:37:13 PM
i have come up with 4 possible scenarios regarding the Hamilton situation where 4 players including tk and giorgi were held out of the game on jan 4:
1) recruiting violation
2) high school falsifying records (all same high schgool)
3) some kind of international student violation (all international students)
4) death or sickness of someone at their high school of whom with they were close to
--->too much of a coincidence taht they all broke sort of rule or got introuble
What does everyone think?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 09, 2006, 09:53:56 PM
Quote from: shooters on January 09, 2006, 08:56:14 AM
I think everyone who jumped on me when i said that the Hobart coach had been fired owes me an apology.

Congrats on being right. However, you need to earn credibility around here. If I had a buck for every time someone came on with their first post and threw out a wild rumor, I'd be able to quit my day job and do this site full-time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on January 10, 2006, 09:58:00 AM
So how does everyone thik the league will shape up now that conference play is getting started?  After Union and Hamilton, what teams are capable of winning the league or doing well?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on January 10, 2006, 08:39:07 PM
St. lawrence is young, but freshman are contributing already.  They've played a very tough schedule and have been in most games. 

Clarkson has some talent, played Oswego very tough the other night.  They are big, and very deep.  Had some health problems early in the season, if all their players are available, they will be a problem for some teams, especially those catching them on Saturday afternoon in Potsdam, after a tough contest at SLU the night before.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on January 11, 2006, 01:48:53 AM
w/o tk, giorgi, and ray ray, hamilton will be at best 3rd place. if that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 11, 2006, 12:40:11 PM
Ok from what i've heard the issues aren't w/ tk and giorgi but with ray and some kid that hasn't even suited up before. I guess TK and Giorgi have been told not to play by someone outside the team as to prove a point. To me it makes no sense, especially playing DIII ball, but then again this is not fact just the only thing i've heard so far. I think the Liberty League is down this year so Hamilton will still have a good shot at the title. I think Union will be strong as well as Hobart (players somehow can come out w/ more fire after a coach is let go). Should be an interesting year.
anyone see the Utica v. Hamilton game last nite?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on January 15, 2006, 08:58:19 PM
Quote from: shooters on January 09, 2006, 08:56:14 AM
I think everyone who jumped on me when i said that the Hobart coach had been fired owes me an apology.
I think you missed the point. You could not verify the source and you have still not been correct in your statement. The coach resigned from his position. This is the official record and statement, from the school and the coach. So, unless you have something else in writing, no one will be offering anything up to the rumor mill.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 16, 2006, 02:14:40 PM
Ok Roche didn't coach another game after i made my statement, and if you truly believe that Roche resigned mid season a year after being coach of the year and from the school he graduated from then you truly are missing the point. Please, don't be one of those guys who believes that Stan Van Gundy really didn't want to coach a NBA champion caliber team this year and Pat Riley just stepped in after Stan "resigned."

Now for more information on the league I just heard that TK and Giorgi will be back w/ the Hamilton squad starting tomorrow but because i can't verify my source don't take me seriously but then again check your box scores after Tuesday's game and see if i'm right.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on January 16, 2006, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: shooters on January 16, 2006, 02:14:40 PM
Ok Roche didn't coach another game after i made my statement, and if you truly believe that Roche resigned mid season a year after being coach of the year and from the school he graduated from then you truly are missing the point. Please, don't be one of those guys who believes that Stan Van Gundy really didn't want to coach a NBA champion caliber team this year and Pat Riley just stepped in after Stan "resigned."
I guess if Tony Dungy from the Colts "resigns" you will call it being fired too, even if he wants a change.

A coach takes a leave, and then resigns, and all you have to offer is your unsubstantiated, rumored, statement, with the only credentials to back it up, is that you have had "4 years of college ball on the east coast." Both Coach Roche and the Athletic department at Hobart confirmed the resignation. http://www.hws.edu/athletics/hobart/basketball/showrelease.asp?id=2926
Oh, and there is a big difference between the NBA and DIII, as far as I know. It is not likely a Coach is fired in-season at DIII ever. So, rather than getting egos elevated, how about being accurate, especially when it involves people and their families?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 17, 2006, 12:04:38 AM
Trust me I am accurate but I don't want to get into some juvenile posting war w/ someone I don't know. If you don't think my statements are accurate then that is your business, people state all sorts of things on here i don't agree with or think are accurate but i don't call them out on it, i just read, give my opinion, and move on. I could give you step by step exactly what happened and why but then again w/o me stating that i'm the AD from Hobart no one would believe me. So going forward  I will tell you what is going on and you can read your newspapers and websites and argue w/ me all you want, it makes for good posts. I hope i am not offending others and if so please let me know and I will remove myself from these postings. Otherwise to each their own.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on January 17, 2006, 11:54:25 AM
Quote from: shooters on January 17, 2006, 12:04:38 AM
Trust me I am accurate but I don't want to get into some juvenile posting war w/ someone I don't know. If you don't think my statements are accurate then that is your business, people state all sorts of things on here i don't agree with or think are accurate but i don't call them out on it, i just read, give my opinion, and move on. I could give you step by step exactly what happened and why but then again w/o me stating that i'm the AD from Hobart no one would believe me. So going forward  I will tell you what is going on and you can read your newspapers and websites and argue w/ me all you want, it makes for good posts. I hope i am not offending others and if so please let me know and I will remove myself from these postings. Otherwise to each their own.
The problem is that I don't know you from adam. And neither does Pat nor the DIII folks. Since you aren't the Hobart AD, and not a current player, and you have not divulged your source, it is just speculation. Not fact, not accurate. It is just OPINION, without supporting evidence. In fact, it is just hearsay and always will be. Just the facts, man. And the facts are that the coach resigned. I am moving on, but it is a shame that you want to tear down the reputation of a good coach by sticking with a story that has no traction, but is founded on rumors. If the coach was fired, it would have been reported as such, or even hinted at by the media. It wasn't. Hopefuelly the Statesmen can continue a fine LL season under the interim coach, after splitting this weekend, by beating Hamilton tonight.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 17, 2006, 05:10:48 PM
Hamilton by double digits this evening and no that is not fact but rather a pretty good educated idea, considering they beat everyone by double digits (except Utica w/o two starters) Point taken radiomike i won't mention another word about Roche's firing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: fpc85 on January 17, 2006, 07:25:47 PM
Quote from: radiomike on January 17, 2006, 11:54:25 AM
Quote from: shooters on January 17, 2006, 12:04:38 AM
Trust me I am accurate but I don't want to get into some juvenile posting war w/ someone I don't know. If you don't think my statements are accurate then that is your business, people state all sorts of things on here i don't agree with or think are accurate but i don't call them out on it, i just read, give my opinion, and move on. I could give you step by step exactly what happened and why but then again w/o me stating that i'm the AD from Hobart no one would believe me. So going forward  I will tell you what is going on and you can read your newspapers and websites and argue w/ me all you want, it makes for good posts. I hope i am not offending others and if so please let me know and I will remove myself from these postings. Otherwise to each their own.
The problem is that I don't know you from adam. And neither does Pat nor the DIII folks. Since you aren't the Hobart AD, and not a current player, and you have not divulged your source, it is just speculation. Not fact, not accurate. It is just OPINION, without supporting evidence. In fact, it is just hearsay and always will be. Just the facts, man. And the facts are that the coach resigned. I am moving on, but it is a shame that you want to tear down the reputation of a good coach by sticking with a story that has no traction, but is founded on rumors. If the coach was fired, it would have been reported as such, or even hinted at by the media. It wasn't. Hopefuelly the Statesmen can continue a fine LL season under the interim coach, after splitting this weekend, by beating Hamilton tonight.

I know he "resigned" and I also know there is more to the story as I am sure you know Radiomike. I just hope that both Roche and Hobart can move on in a positive way.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 17, 2006, 10:30:29 PM
Well put fbc, now if everyone wants me to admit i was wrong i will, Hobart BEAT Hamilton this evening when i in fact said Hamilton would win by double digits. I may have to re-evaluate the Hamilton squad as I cannot figure out what happened this evening. I guess if Welchons and TK go a combined 12-32 that might be part of the reason. Nice work Hobart on a quality win this evening, and good prediction radiomike. I am humbled.................

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: casey on January 20, 2006, 10:00:18 PM
Skidmore just beat Hobart 76-75.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 21, 2006, 01:27:47 AM
Huge upset tonite by Skidmore!!! Hobart has to play Union tomorrow, I guess beating Hamilton took everything out of them. I can't believe Skidmore beat them, I need more info! I heard Hamilton beat Union, nice recovery from the Hobart loss!

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on January 21, 2006, 09:36:15 AM
And SLU plays at RPI with both teams playing very well lately...should be an exciting conference.  Can RPI stay
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on January 21, 2006, 09:37:11 AM
in the top tier???  (sorry, premature post)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 21, 2006, 10:17:17 AM
I think the question is can St. Lawrence remain at the top of the league? At 3-0, granted they haven't played anyone but Union, how long will this last. To think that after today Hobart or Union will have 3 losses, 3 more than St. Lawrence is mind boggling. I think RPI is legit, they are big and physical, but my mind is on St. Lawrence guess we will have the answer to both questions when they square off.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on January 22, 2006, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: shooters on January 21, 2006, 10:17:17 AM
I think the question is can St. Lawrence remain at the top of the league? At 3-0, granted they haven't played anyone but Union, how long will this last. To think that after today Hobart or Union will have 3 losses, 3 more than St. Lawrence is mind boggling. I think RPI is legit, they are big and physical, but my mind is on St. Lawrence guess we will have the answer to both questions when they square off.
There is still way too much league play to happen. The Skidmore upset of Hobart, Hobart beating Hamilton, who is 4-1, and RPI and Hobart each have only two losses. Union is 3 losses behind at the moment. This week, with the North Country driving south, the St. Lawrence games at Hamilton and Hobart will be key to the rest of the season, not to mention the Union and RPI matchup on Friday. It would be nice to see both H's win this week!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 28, 2006, 11:08:20 AM
Does anyone have any idea what is going on in the LL?

St. Lawrence is 6-0 in the league (going into today's game against Hamilton), but just 8-8 overall.

Hamilton wins in spite of their coach, I guess that's what tons of talent and a law admissions office will do for you.

Union, Hobart and RPI can't decide if they're going to win or lose. This trio of teams beats a team they should lose to one night, then loses to a team they should beat the next. What gives?

Vassar is 10-6 overall, but just 2-4 in the LL, and they really won't factor into the conference tourney.

And, Skidmore and Clarkson, who really cares about these teams. They haven't made a difference in several years.

Anybody have any reasons why the LL is so weird this year?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 28, 2006, 05:11:02 PM
The liberty league is crazy this year! I agree with all comments made, w/ the exception of the Hamilton situation. I can't believe St. Lawrence is atop the league but thats the way its goes. Right now unless something happens to St. Lawrence/Hamilton its a two horse race to the finish!!!! I find the entire league exciting and can't wait to jump on the scores every weekend to see who beat who. I wish someone would give Anderson down at Hamilton a break, now its because of the law admissions office that they are winning, I think i've heard it all. If they lose its the coaching if they win its the players. I nevered heard a coach get such negative pubicity for winning. Lat time i checked its the coaching that brings in the players hence if they have talent its to the coach's credit. Look at Downs from St. Lawrence, he's no master of the x's and o's but he's winning, all because he has some serious talent coming in. I tip my hat off to Downs and his staff for getting the players! Can't wait to hear the final on this game today!

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ready2play on January 29, 2006, 10:51:59 AM
The only reason good players go to Hamilton to play is because of the reputation that Coach Murphy built for the school. Anderson may be a decent coach, but he's no expert. With one of the best overall records in NCAA history, Hamilton looks like a great place to go for good players and their parents, with its academic prowess. Anderson only got the job, however, because of BS politics at that school. There were much more qualified coaches in the running, but Hamilton chose politically instead of intelligently. Anderson needs a few years to prove he's the reason for kids coming.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 29, 2006, 11:53:40 AM
Hamilton is a great academic school and yes the program under Murphy was solid, I just think the program will jump up into a league of its own w/ the recruiting efforts by Anderson compounded with the fact kids want to go there. Don't get me wrong after the Hobart loss I had my questions about a lot of things but seeing them bounce back and knock off St. Lawrence by 11 and shoot their record to 14-3 I rest my doubts. I understand that there are loyal Murhpy guys and I respect that but I would like people to judge all coaches on the way they perform on the court w/ their record not by some political or athletic alignment. I enjoy posting on this site about the teams and I have yet to hear one post regarding Hamilton's team w/o the mention of how awful Anderson is. I need to get up there and meet this guy for myself.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on January 29, 2006, 12:34:19 PM
anderson makes line changes substitutions as if the players were playing hockey instead of basketball
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ready2play on January 29, 2006, 02:44:55 PM
Ngobeni, Welchons, Peck, Toste are all from Murphy. Chavleshvili, Mandella, Ray-Ray(The Lithuanian) all come from the same high school in VA that Murphy has a connection to.  Further players from that high school should always be credited to Murphy.
Agreed on the wacky substituting method...don't really understand it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 29, 2006, 04:06:11 PM
I know they run a press so i'm assuming that is what is with the substitutions, but again pretty much until Giorgi graduates and no players come from any school Murphy has ever visited will anyone get any credit for the program.....except Murphy. I understand it might be too early (second year) for Anderson to start getting credit for the program but after everything i've heard leading up to this about Anderson I didn't expect these kind of results, especially in year II. Lets see how the rest of the year goes with the Liberty League, can we please talk about other coaches in the league? How about Montana up at Union? Anyone!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ready2play on January 29, 2006, 04:42:33 PM
Montana is a great guy and a great coach (coached under Murphy...sorry, last one). For some reason his teams can never take that last step and take over an entire season. Runs a great program, though. I'd love to see them do well this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 29, 2006, 05:57:59 PM
I've heard Montana is good, I wonder where Roche will end up from Hobart? Here is an interesting question, take the records out and rate the coaches from the LL, does anyone know the guy who took over at Clarkson, they seem to be having some rough times? Clearly I know the only way Anderson will be at the top w/ this group is if it was alphabetical, so we'll just put him at the bottom and save the argument. I'm assuming Montana would be at the top followed by..................

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on January 29, 2006, 08:03:44 PM
Shooters:

I know you like defend Anderson or at least give him the benefit of the doubt, but the guy is a snake.  He isn't respected by other coaches in the league and he's not respected by his players.

His wife is very nice though.  And don't get me wrong when you meet the guy he's very articulate and he knows basketball or he wouldnt have gotten to the point he's at now.

He coached down at 5-Star camp so he meets lots of players and has connections.

No one wanted to hire this guy at Hamilton except the Hamilton Athletic Director who is a bigger snake than Anderson.  The Hamilton players and basketball alumni wanted Bill Geitner from Eastern Connecticut, Montana of Union, or Scott Hicks (formerly of Loyola, MD).

The bball alums and Hamilton players told the AD this and they also told the AD they didnt want Anderson, but the AD hired Anderson anyway.

Anderson's substitutions patterns make no sense.  He doesnt play the best guys on the team.  He favors his players (Nick Jones and Phil Valenti) who both played for him at Clarkson OVER Hamilton players that Murphy recruited and who are better players than Jones and Valenti.

TK and Giorgi are dominant players who should play considerable minutes, but often play less than 20 a game.  Anderson needs to stick to TK, Giorgi, Peck, Welcons, and Jones, without going to deep beyond those 5.   He also hamstrings TK and Giorgi's play and benches them when they actually try to excel and play how they are capable of playing b/c Anderson doesnt like that they arent his guys and doing what he wants.

He also would rather win with his guys (Jones and Valenti) being big contributors than Murphy's guys.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 29, 2006, 10:11:42 PM
actually i wanted to talk about other coaches in the league, and yes you're right i do try to give the benefit of the doubt to Anderson, only because it seems no one else does. i'm a Liberty League guy and after seeing him do what he did at Clarkson why wouldn't he get a job offer at Hamilton? Makes perfect sense to me. Clearly you know more about the situation than i do so I will leave it at that. I know the team is 14-3, and if you are a true Hamilton fan i would think that is what is important, i guess in time he will have all "his" guys so we won't have to worry about that. I truly don't think at 14-3 i need to defend this coach, and I'll tell you what after seeing what St. Lawrence is doing i want to know more about the other coaches in the league, i mean Downs must be doing something right up there. Back to Hamilton for a minute, they were what 15-12 last year and have everyone back this year but some scrub named Evans or something and look at them now, i find the entire thing interesting almost perplexing. Does anyone want to talk about the other coaches in the league or are we going to debate this further?
Title: Hamilton hasn't beaten a good team this season
Post by: bed on January 30, 2006, 01:21:22 AM
Yes, Hamilton is 14-3........and yes........you play the schedule that you have and you beat up those teams that you are scheduled to play..........BUT.......

Hamilton hasn't beaten anybody this year.  There record is inflated.  Anderson has beaten most of the teams he's SUPPOSED to beat!!  Big deal.  He beat 2 of the worst teams in the NESCAC (Middlebury and Wesleyan), beat a bunch of nobodys in non-conference action (most of whom have losing records.....or winning records in sub-par conferences).  Hamilton beat SUNY Brockport, who is decent (basically a .500 team), but not a top team by any stretch.

Who did Hamilton lose to??????    All the GOOD TEAMS it played!!
They lost on the road to Utica College.
They lost at home to Hobart.
They lost at home to Williams.

Is Anderson a good coach?  In my opinion, not yet.  He hasn't proven he can be a big time coach yet.  He hasnt beaten any good teams this year at Hamilton.  At Clarkson, his teams were mediocre.  His substitution patterns don't make any sense (an earlier post mentioned they were like hockey line changes).

In terms of coaches in the UCAA, Bob Montana is the class of the league.  He is the best coach there, but Downs is solid at St. Lawrence, Griffin is a sold veteran at RPI, as is Quattrocchi at Skidmore.

As for Tobin Anderson, he's got a ways to go to be considered in a class with those coaches.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 30, 2006, 05:32:45 AM
When I said Hamilton had a law admissions office, I meant lax. It is a good school with top tier academics, but the admissions office is very relaxed with its standards when it comes to athletes, especially basketball. There are students that get into Hamilton that couldn't get in other places, because they play basketball. Not saying it doesn't happen at other schools, but Hamilton is able to use its academic reputation to entice players to come, then gets players whose academics don't quite match the rest of the student body.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on January 30, 2006, 11:06:06 AM
yeh, welcome to the world of college basketball. vassar has a stronger academic reputation though than hamilton and still fails to get good players. just something to think about
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 30, 2006, 11:56:41 AM
My point was that Hamilton accepts a number of athletes who don't meet the academic standards the other students who attend the college have to meet. I also know this goes on at most places, but standards are lowered quite a lot at Hamilton.

I also know there are a number of Division III schools that, while they cannot give out scholarships, do give out financial aid to athletes that may not necessarily qualify for it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on January 30, 2006, 01:41:52 PM
you could be right, i wouldnt rule anything out. i wouldnt be surprised if shady things occurred behind the scences.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on January 30, 2006, 03:12:01 PM
wow, for a coach who is 14-3, I have never seen such bashing.  And I love this admissions thing.  Murphy never communicated with those people.  HA, why do you think they forced him out.  Interesting angles on here.  I don't know how well Coach Anderson will do at Hamilton, but how many posters on here are Hamilton grads/ex-players.  By the way, this guy Anderson who can't coach, check out his record at Clarkson.  Then compare it to any coach who was there previously.  I believe he had them in the conference tourn. a few times, not to mention some ECAC appearences.  But I forget, he can't coach.  I also love the "this guy is a snake" comment.  Has anyone on here been at his practices, been recruiting with him, or do we have coaches on here who have lost players to him at Clarkson or Hamilton.  Then we proclaim Bob Montana as coach of the decade and list John Q and the RPI guy as solid basketball men.  WOW, I will give ya Montana, nice team, 1 NCAA appearence.  But the other two, nice career records there.  I don't know about his subbing patterns and all that, I guess we will have to wait and see the results at the end, but to claim he is a snake after taking over for Murphy and all of this other junk is flat out FUNNY.  I understand people sticking up for their old coach, just like Bobby Knight type situations, but to take it out on the next guy, who by all accounts has a pretty good career record as a head guy just does not make sense.  BTW, what does is wife being nice have to do with any of this.  Interesting tidbit there as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on January 30, 2006, 04:58:47 PM
I don't know how you can bring admissions into this.  Do you work in Hamilton's admissions office?  How you can judge the difference in basketball player admits and non-basketball admits accurately, especially when compared to other schools, I have no idea.  I think, even though they don't compete in NESCAC for basketball, Hamilton still adheres to their athlete admission policies.  How that compares to other Liberty League schools, I have no idea, but I doubt that it results in some huge discrepency that allows Hamilton to field vastly more talented teams with comparativley low GPAs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 30, 2006, 06:50:45 PM
First of all, I never said Murphy didn't have the same "perks" that Anderson has. He also got some nice assists from the admissions and financial aid offices. I also am not sure about Quatrochi and Griffin among the tops in the league anymore. Skidmore has been near the bottom of the league the last few years, and RPI is hit or miss. I think they both have good career records, but not too much lately. And if you look at their website, Union has two NCAA tournament appearances since the 2001-02 season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on January 30, 2006, 07:29:07 PM
I stand corrected on the Union appearances.  My point was, and you mentioned it, is that I don't believe the new staff isn't getting anything the old staff didn't.  Division III sports are full of these situations, and basically it is up to the school to decide how good they want there programs to be, especially when it comes to financial aid.  And I think it would be safe to assume, that when coach Anderson was at Clarkson, he probably didn't get much help but had that team competitive every year.  Coach Montana has done a great job at Union and always fields competitive teams.  But I will say this, if I am trying to rebuild a program, coach Anderson appears to be a good way to go, especially in respect to the job he did at Clarkson.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on January 30, 2006, 09:42:03 PM
Just to clarify guys...........

I wasn't saying Coach Q and Coach Griffin were amazing coaches.  Someone was asking about coaches in the league so I said that far and away Montana is the best coach in the league.  He has proved that year in and year out making the NCAA and ECAC more than a few times in his tenure at Union.

Coach Q and Coach Griffin are solid veteran coaches who do the best with what they can get at their programs and make the best of what they've got.  RPI and Skidmore don't make basketball their top priority so it's a lot harder for those coaches to be powerhouses year in and year out.   They have earned the respect of their fellow coaches (their peers) about their knowledge of the game and their coaching ability.  Sometimes one's record is not the be all and end all.
I also said that Coach Downs has proven to be a pretty decent coach up at St. Lawrence.  I'd put him right behind Montana right now in best coaches in the league.

Again--------I know some are higher on Coach Anderson than I am, but as I said in an earlier post (i think yesterday).........go easy on his coaching ability and don't draw too much from his record this season.  First, a lot of the star players on the team were recruited by Murphy and still have a better relationship with Murphy than they do with their current coach.  They all want to win, but they don't want to win for Anderson.

Additionally, as I was saying in a prior post and I say again here, Hamilton lost to the best teams they've played this season:  Williams and Utica College.  They also lost to Hobart.  Who did they beat?  Not really anyone that good.  14-3 is a great record, but I would respect Anderson more had he beaten Utica or Williams..........or even beaten Hobart on Hamilton's home court.

Let's see Hamilton win some tough conference games on the road, let's see them win the Liberty League tourney and let's see them beat a team with a winning record that is a good team from a good conference and then I'll give Coach Anderson more respect.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 31, 2006, 07:53:59 AM
Actually, Clarkson and St. Lawrence are similar to Hamilton in their acceptance of players.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 31, 2006, 09:44:51 AM
Thank god there are others on this posting that have a little less salt in their blood. Ok if we are going on the Murphy players crap then the reason they were 15-12 last year is because of Murphy guys too. Can't have it both ways. Actually with that fact pattern then it would seem that the less Murphy guys on the team (last to this) the better the record. Now I'm not gonna sit here and tell you TK and Giorgi aren't legit, they are vital parts of team, no question. (Ray Ray and Mandela aren't currently on the team either). I agree with  the posting that Hamilton hasn't really beaten anyone solid, I mean outside of knocking off the only undefeated team in the league, but yes they lost to Williams, Utica, and Hobart. Utica they were playing w/o four of their players, including two starters, and i have no explanation for the Hobart game. All I can say is lets see what happens tonite at Hobart. As for coaching I didn't want to have to respond to the crazy post regarding Coach Q and Griffin and thank god someone else caught it before i had to respond. And w/ coach Anderson and Clarkson, lets give Coach Anderson not one but two all-americans at Hamilton and see if Clarkson can come into Hamilton's gym and beat them. I believe that is exactly what happened against Coach Murphy in the not so distant past. I would take that challenge further by marking on the calendar the next time Clarkson goes 17-8 (or whatever their record was that year) or perhaps just a winning record. I think it will be a lot further away (if ever) than you think.

I do applaud the last several posts, however, regarding admissions and athletics. Very true stuff coming from all angles. Best was "welcome to college basketball" because this priority to athletes has been going on since the beginning of time and there is no better way to raise money from boosters and alums than by having competitive athletic teams.

Lets see the outcomes tonite from our top four coaches, Montana, Downs, Q, Griffin.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 31, 2006, 10:18:10 AM
Thumbsup,
I'm not clear on how Anderson rebuilt the Clarkson program, but there is no disputing his record there. For Hamilton, though, he brought his top two players with him from Clarkson, boosting Hamilton's program and depleting Clarkson's. As for the average record for Hamilton last year, there was a lot of friction between the new order and old guard. That seems to have worked itself out somewhat this season, and Hamilton's record is better.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 31, 2006, 11:25:31 AM
rjcarter,

Agreed that Anderson cherry picked his top two guys from Clarkson, so very unfair to compare the two teams at this point, and i would agree the friction has wore itself off, no pun intended, I think it will be interesting to see what happens next year as welchons and valenti, both right now playing excellent ball, leave the program. I think that will be the point when Anderson and the Hamilton program truly develops on its own. My question is that someone said Hamilton is beating who they should be right now, I'm not going to quote this but if memory serves me correct they were picked third preseason in the conference, that would mean then they are beating teams they shouldn't be. If and if is all im shooting for, they win the conference, the conference tourney, and head to the NCAAs then I think they might have overachieved just a touch don't you think? Just a thought. Other interesting games tonite for the LL?

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on January 31, 2006, 01:43:19 PM
RJ, Clarkson has an awful history in Basketball.  I believe Anderson is the only coach in the history of the program with a career record there over .500.  Anyone who can get that program competitive is doing a great job.  I agree with the rest of your points.  Basketball is a great game.  Everyone has their own styles, offenses etc.  Their is no one way to get it done, and most coaches obviously believe their way is the best.  Bottom line in D3, coaching isn't the determining factor in having a great program.  Its all recruiting, lots of good coaches can't get players either because of admissions or financial aid.  So the haves may not be the best coaches, but the best recruiters and vice-versa.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on January 31, 2006, 07:48:36 PM
Interesting takes all the way around on UCAA oh..i mean Liberty League coaches.  My take is that Montana is probably the best x's & o's guy in the league.  I guess something has to be said for guys like Coach Q and Mike Griffin at Skidmore and RPI for longevity and RPI seems to be getting better as the year goes on.  whatever your take on Anderson is, I certainly have some thoughts, he is the leader of the pack right now...his guys or not.  I think it will be interesting to see what happens with Hobart, they seem to be all over the place-beating Union and Hamilton, but losing to Skidmore.  Can Wojtylko shed the interm label or does anyone know what could happen there?  SLU is young and good for Downs, which could mean long trips for LL tourney the next couple of years.  Vassar seems to be that spoiler team that could catch somebody sleeping...Don't know much about Dutton, anyone have anything about him?  Clarkson seems like the struggles will continue.  Tough to see a guy like Coach Q struggle at Skidmore...RPI has a lot of seniors, it looks like they have a chance if they can win some home games down the stretch.
I think it will be fun to watch...I think it shakes out with Hamilton, SLU, Union and RPI getting the top four...anyways, I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts as we get closer to the end...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 31, 2006, 11:33:40 PM
Hamilton beats Hobart 66-63
Union beats Skidmore 98-62

No surprises in the wins, though it appears Union may have made some shots tonight. Don't think that game tells us much about the coaching. Meanwhile, Hamilton winning by three tells me there was more coaching involved.

How's that for a John Madden analysis.

Seriously though, Union made like 15 threes against Skidmore, while Hamilton was led by Peck and Giorgi with 14 points each, and TK had 13 points and 10 boards.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 01, 2006, 09:58:27 AM
As a recent grad and former player of Coach Montana, I can tell you there is no superior x's and o's in the league.  His preparation and attention to detail I would argue are up there with any coach in the country.  He recruits the type of players that fit into his system.

Also, as to Coach Andersen, I have heard from very reliable sources (former players of his), that he does have snake like tendencies.  He maniupulates players and is overall not the most approachable of people.  I am trying to be careful with my words, out of respect to the success he has had.

He has great talent, and seems to be putting it together this year.  I saw them play at Union this year, and they were the superior team.  However, Union seems to peak later on, as we saw last year, when they won the conference as the #4 seed... so only time will tell!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 01, 2006, 03:35:17 PM
Unionalum,

I too have heard similar things about Hamilton's coach, but I digress.

Any predictions for this weekend's games?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 01, 2006, 03:47:39 PM
Union will beat Hobart (Union after hitting 15 3's on Tuesday will keep it going)
Union will lose to Hamilton (however, they will beat them when they play for a 3rd time)

To be honest with you, living in Boston now I have only been able to see Union, Hamilton and Hobart play live, so it is difficult for me to make predictions with confidence.

I expect St. Lawerence to win both at home, but I usually am a fan of the ruggedness of RPI teams I have seen in the past, which makes them always prime for an upset.

Hobart, will rebound with a win over Skidmore on Saturday.

I really don't know much about Clarkson.

Hamilton- Skidmore is a hospital game.

To clarify what I was getting at before with Anderson... just an example, he will use an assistant to find out about a player's off the court activity, and then use that against him.

Now I digress as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 01, 2006, 05:06:49 PM
I know this about the Hamilton coach, he doesn't put up with a lot of off the court behavior. I can recall when his D2 transfer and star point guard got caught drinking the night before the conference tourney and he threw him off the team, and could have played him w/o anyone knowing about the situation. I believe he kicked the off guard off as well the next week (D2 transfer as well). I also know he has kicked I believe 4 players off the Hamilton teams in his two years there for conduct unbecoming to an athletic program (just made that name up). That might make some sense why there is this bitterness toward him, because perhaps some of the voices being heard are those who got kicked off. I can tell you it is the complete opposite of the way the program was ran prior. Everyone always liked the substitute teacher who let you do whatever you wanted more. You know I would love to see a post from a player who actually played for Anderson (of course anyone could post claiming that) and hear what he would have to say. I saw that Hamilton shot 20 some shots more than Hobart did last nite, and I read a piece regarding "coaching" must have been the reason for a close game, well players got to hit a few shots too. Look at the stats before you make general statements. Now back to the LL I truly think any team is capable of beating another in this league at any given time. Makes this season that much more interesting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 01, 2006, 05:39:17 PM
I like when coach's have that type of disciplinary nature.  I think that translates onto the court with careless turnovers and defensive rebounding.

I was always impressed with how programs like Williams and Rochester never seemed to beat themselves.

However, in the college arena, it is a fine line between how to discipline college athletes and how to let them live as college students.  These guys are between 18-22, away from home for the first time, and are suppose to "let loose" at times.

This is not an easy distinction to make by any means.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: A Friend on February 01, 2006, 05:44:18 PM
Ok although i'm new to the site its time to break it on down. Does anyone know Dave Paulson? He is the coach of Williams, took them to a national championship, runner up a year after that. Anderson was the top assistant for Dave at LeMoyne. Now I'm not in a love fest w/ Anderson like "shooters" i mean the two must have dated in college or something is all i can figure out. But I don't think a guy like Paulson is going to have this Anderson character around his program if any of the above posts are true. Someone objective should read the postings one by one and listen to how it sounds. It sounds like a bunch of upset kids who didn't make the cut on the kickball team and are upset because the team is doing well without them. He is 15-3 for gods sake, the rest of the league is barely over .500, if I was a fan of any other program in the LL I'd be spreading rumors too. The best thing for you Union/Vassar/Hobart/Skidmore/RPI/SLU/Clarkson fans to do is get this guy out of your league. If i'm the opposing coaches i wouldn't like this young guy (saw on profile he is in early 30s) and wouldn't respect him either. He's taking your recruits, taunting you with them, and then beating you. Actually the best thing that might happen and solve all your issues is if he backs up this year w/ another solid year and heads out of the league. Then Hamilton can get a guy like the guy they really wanted who last i checked is 6-12 or their second choice who hasn't been over .500 in his career. -the coaches i got from someone who posted earlier i just looked up the records. I am going to look into this Hamilton squad further but I'm a Williams guy and seems like he instills the winning formula in his coaching staffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 01, 2006, 07:13:57 PM
Shooters,

Believe it or not, I wasn't taking a shot at Anderson in my post when I talked about coaching. I actually was trying to send a compliment his way.

Let me explain: When there is a game decided by three points, there usually have to be some good coaching moves made to get the W. I didn't check the box score, only read the recap, and didn't attend the game, but I was actually giving Tobin some kudos.

As for the Union-Skidmore game, which I didn't attend or read the box score on either, just the recap, it was a 36-point difference. Not much coaching has to be done when the score gets rolling like that.

I understand you taking me to task for assuming an outcome without doing the in-depth analysis you did. But I think it's only fair for me to take you to task for assuming I was slamming Anderson's abilities because I wrote that I'd heard bad things said about him.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on February 01, 2006, 08:04:53 PM
Friend,

Great take.  That's the general idea I was trying to convey earlier.  I can also attest to the way coach Anderson runs his program.  It is his way or the highway.  Just like Knight, Williams, Paulson,etc.  Very reputable student athletes as well.  Great kids, just like the other programs I am sure.  I also remember that incident when he had to kid the kid off for that team violation.  Think Bobby Huggins or coaches of the like would have stuck to their guns.  Just a thought.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on February 02, 2006, 12:03:12 AM
union alum is exactly right about anderson. trust me i know
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on February 02, 2006, 09:52:52 PM

It looks to be a big weekend for establishing who may come out of the LL this year.  Union goes out for Hobart and Hamilton this weekend...Hobart stole one from U early...Tough weekend for the Dutchmen...RPI goes north for St. Lawrence and Clarkson.  With Hamilton and SLU out in front, Hobart, Union and RPI have a lot to play for this weekend and these games could shake up the log jam in the middle.

As for coaches, to each their own on the thoughts, obviously every coach has his positives and negatives...I am sure if we look at each program we could find something about each coach.  We'll see who puts quality players and x's & o's together over the next couple of weeks to go to the tournament...

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 02, 2006, 10:12:05 PM
Well put UCAA man, and sorry rjcarter if i ripped you prematurely. I guess i read into it wrong. Good work A Friend, isn't that name off a movie?, but i like your thoughts on the coaching and the league, i didn't know Anderson was a Paulson guy, makes that much more sense. I agree w/ UCAA in this should be an exciting weekend for the LL. I truly believe anyone is capable of losing at ANY time and that goes for my Hamilton squad as well. I think Union will give them a run this weekend and as stated the other three teams have a lot riding on the weekend. I have a feeling SLU has at least one more defeat left (outside Hamilton) I predict they drop one this weekend. Lets sit back and enjoy, I wish i could listen to some of these games or at least get an online play by play. Guess thats what i get for being a DIII fan.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 02, 2006, 11:42:03 PM
The league is definately competitive.  It is extremely down this year though.  A lot of poor/mediocre teams in the league.  So a few guys are right---anyone can be beaten at any time.

Hamilton has BY FAR more talent than any other team in the league.  They should easily coast to the league title and win the LL tourney and head to the NCAA's.   There arent many players in the entire LL that could crack Hamilton's starting 5----maybe a handful.

As much as I dislike Tobin Anderson and his coaching, he's got a hell of team and I think anything less than a LL title and 1 or 2 wins in the NCAA tourney would be disappointing for the Continentals.

I never count out Union, b/c as I said earlier Montana is the best coach in the LL and is a good big-time coach---you know Bob will be prepared and have scouted thoroughly and his guys will come to play.

But outside of Union, I don't see anyone beating Hamilton this postseason.  Hobart could be a sleeper, but they are not a big time team in the postseason.

It says here, Hamilton will go places IN SPITE of Tobin Anderson.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 03, 2006, 10:58:02 AM
I agree that Hamilton has the most overall talent, but to say whether there are players in the league who would start for them is overboard.

Cagianello is probably the Player of the Year in the conference, and is threatening Union's alltime scoring record.

Scordato not only scored 34 on Hamilton in last year's Liberty League title game but has won Liberty league guard of the week 2 of the last 3 weeks.

Point guard Murphy has led the conference in assist to turnover ratio every single season so far, and now as a senior he has a chance to do it for a 4th time.

So let's not go crazy, and be blinded by Hamilton's "on paper" talent
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 03, 2006, 11:07:33 AM
I agree Hamilton has a lot of talent, but lets calm down about a few things. First of all I'll take Feane as my point any day over Welchons, especially as of lately. I would take Avitable, and as unionalum says I'll take Cagianello as well.

I can see where bed is going with this and that is now that Hamilton is playing well in order to trash the program some more we are setting expectations just a touch higher, i mean 2 victories in the NCAA or they underachieved? Let me remind you this is a team that was 15-12 last year and outside of a few outstanding freshmen Anderson recruited (Wood) are the same team. They were picked preseason third in the league so lets not just go out there and say if they don't breeze through the season, the LL tournament and two victories in the NCAA they were disappointing. I do agree w/ bed in the fact that the LL is a subpar conference but in some respect makes it that much more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on February 03, 2006, 11:27:19 AM
i will post the hamilton score right after i walk back to my room tonight and tomor
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 03, 2006, 11:27:51 AM
Feane-Welchons is a real good debate.

I'm telling you Scordato might be the most talented kid in the conference when he puts it together.
Avitable comes to play every night, real hardworking kid.  Gets his numbers but not sure I would take him over other guys in the conference.

The big men are down this year with the graduations of Marshall, Flack, Bruce from last year... Georgi is a tough kid.
I saw the Hobart kid this year, i forget his name, but he has some real touch for a kid his size.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 04, 2006, 09:41:37 AM
didn't talke long for my St. Lawrence prediction to come true, nice work by RPI!! Big game today up at Union, should be a barn burner, Montana v. Anderson the best v. the worst according to this site. This should be the last big test for the Hamilton squad and with a victory should pretty much wrap the LL conference title (i better not get ahead of myself). Interesting win last night by Hobart as well. Boy just can't seem to figure that team out. Well good luck today unionalum, can't wait to post after the game one way or the other. (yes i have no life, its true).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 04, 2006, 09:43:21 AM
the hamilton v. union game will be on the radio via the internet, check out hamilton's site if you are interested!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 05, 2006, 12:38:50 AM
Hamilton was impressive yet again.

Here's my question for Shooters or anyone else who's been able to see Hamilton play this season more than one or two times:

        Is there any method to how Coach Anderson is substituting his players?  Is it a random substitution pattern?  Is there a certain rotation he uses depending on any factor(s)?

The reason I ask is based on boxscores and summaries/recaps of games, it appears that some games certain players hardly play or see the light of day off the bench.................and other times, those guys are the leading scorers/rebounders, etc.

I just can't figure out and was hoping someone who's seen the team play more can provide some insight in that area.

No doubt is the team successful and as we all know..........WHEN A TEAM WINS, most don't complain.........but WHEN YOU START LOSING.......things arent always as nice between teammates.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 05, 2006, 11:01:28 AM
Although i haven't seen them play much this year i agree with you on the fact it seems like someone different leads the team every time. I notice that Giorgi didn't play/score much at all yesterday and although i didn't see the box scores i did listen to it on the internet. I know he plays a certain five to start with, lately its been welchons/peck/valenti/giorgi/TK or Jones. Then after a couple minutes of the press he subs in an entire new group w/ Wood/Rogers/jones(or tk) and two others. Sometimes it seems that this group will outplay the starters. I personally have not been on a ball club that presses the entire time but i can only assume that if worked correctly players will need time off the court. Sometimes I wish they would just sit back and play ball but that is not how Anderson runs his program. I also know that last nite Union started a small lineup and therefore i think Anderson went small and didn't use Giorgi much at all. And for all you "Anderson doesn't play Murhpy guys" I did notice Nick Jones came off the bench, I haven't seen that move before, especially w/ the fact Nick is their best shooter by far. Bed, I can't answer much beyond that, I did notice they were down 8 at half and came back to win by 10 in the second half that was impressive.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 05, 2006, 01:08:12 PM
Alright I wasn't able to attend either of the games, but Union is in trouble.   After talking with the guys, the offense has become terribly one dimensional.  They took 36's on Friday night and 28 more on Saturday. Last year at least Bruce was there down low as an option.  This year they are getting nothing inside, and when the shots aren't falling, they dont have a chance
Also rebounding has been killin them.  Hamilton outrebounded them 42-21.  Tough to win games that way.

However, on a positive note, this season wins and losses wise, is eerily similar to last season when they snuck in as the #4 seed, and then shot the lights out at Hobart for the weekend to take the conf. title.

Hamilton truly looks like the class of the league...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: the_prototype on February 05, 2006, 03:30:37 PM
Tom Schneider from RPI is absolutely the player of the year at this point.

Quote from: unionalum on February 03, 2006, 10:58:02 AM
I agree that Hamilton has the most overall talent, but to say whether there are players in the league who would start for them is overboard.

Cagianello is probably the Player of the Year in the conference, and is threatening Union's alltime scoring record.

Scordato not only scored 34 on Hamilton in last year's Liberty League title game but has won Liberty league guard of the week 2 of the last 3 weeks.

Point guard Murphy has led the conference in assist to turnover ratio every single season so far, and now as a senior he has a chance to do it for a 4th time.

So let's not go crazy, and be blinded by Hamilton's "on paper" talent
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 05, 2006, 05:09:52 PM
unionalum,

I didn't realize that Hamilton out rebounded by that big of a number. I was listening to the game and it sounded like Hamilton was getting a ton of offensive rebounds. It also sounded like when Union shot the ball well they controlled the game but once the shots didn't start falling then the game turned around. There was some altercation between the great Montana and the fans at the end of the game, I guess from what someone said he had to be restrained, they caught some of it on the radio before signing off. Did you hear anything about that?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 05, 2006, 11:23:15 PM
I just got a first hand report from one of Union's players about the end of the game. (keep in  mind this is from the point of view of a Union player)
Apparently the Hamilton crowd was as ruthless and vulgar as ever... yelling chants that if i repeated them here, would get me kicked off the server.
After the game, a group of hamilton students approached Union's bench and kept yelling things, including some racist comments to one of union's black players....
Montana went to security nearby and asked them "you have this under control right"... apparently they did nothing and were just very laid back about the whole thing... finally a student about 2 feet from Montana yelled something about his wife, or ex-wife, and Montana kind of snapped on him.

I dont think he ever got to the kid, security, players and parents were all restraining him and no punches were thrown but there was pushing between people.  Sounded like an ugly scene.

Note about the game:  Montana started basically 5 guards, that would explain the lack of rebounding and unbelievable amount of 3pt attempts
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 06, 2006, 12:37:25 AM
shooters,

i just worry that Anderson's substitution patters might plague the team in the playoffs or in a big game (which at this point would be LL playoffs or NCAAs).

how many times have you seen coaches be successful with a rotating lineup like that?  i understand matchups and for example, union playing a small lineup, with a lot of guards, so not playing Giorgi for matchup reasons.  However, one could argue playing giorgi for big minutes and TK would cause defensive fits for a union team with 5 guards.

also, players like to know their roles and know they're going to GENERALLY play X amount of minutes per night.  It sometimes becomes frustrating when the coach tinkers with the lineups on a night-to-night or game-to-game basis AND ALSO..........rotates in 4 or 5 guys at a time.

Perhaps Hamilton's press is the reason for this, but call me old-fashioned or conservative, but i'd rather see a lineup of welchons, peck, jones, TK, and Giorgi with Valenti off the bench and those 6 playing the majority of minutes.  Maybe throw in 1 guy for like 5 minutes or so but if i was TOBIN i would RIDE THOSE 6 as far as they'll take me.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on February 06, 2006, 12:47:30 AM
Tom Schneider would be a great choice from RPI, he has been LL forward of the week 5 times, maybe 6 this week after 30 points vs. clarkson and he is averaging a double-double this season.  Not to mention he seems to be leading RPI back from a poor start...
As for Montana and Hamilton, anybody who has played for an opponent vs. Hamilton knows how bad they can get...I remember being the subject of a few taunts when I played and Montana can have a bit of a hot streak in him as well.

Big games this weekend as Hobart and Hamilton go to RPI and Vassar...I still think Hamilton has another loss in them before the LL tourney, maybe it happens this weekend???

I am sure Union is looking to rebound from this weekend and the buzzer beater at SLU last time, and SLU has to come downstate after its rivalry game with Clarkson (who took vassar to ot and almost knocked RPI off after their big win at SLU)

Another weekend of big games...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: casey on February 06, 2006, 08:49:33 AM
Quote from: unionalum on February 05, 2006, 11:23:15 PM
I just got a first hand report from one of Union's players about the end of the game. (keep in  mind this is from the point of view of a Union player)
Apparently the Hamilton crowd was as ruthless and vulgar as ever... yelling chants that if i repeated them here, would get me kicked off the server.
After the game, a group of hamilton students approached Union's bench and kept yelling things, including some racist comments to one of union's black players....
Montana went to security nearby and asked them "you have this under control right"... apparently they did nothing and were just very laid back about the whole thing... finally a student about 2 feet from Montana yelled something about his wife, or ex-wife, and Montana kind of snapped on him.

I dont think he ever got to the kid, security, players and parents were all restraining him and no punches were thrown but there was pushing between people.  Sounded like an ugly scene.

Note about the game:  Montana started basically 5 guards, that would explain the lack of rebounding and unbelievable amount of 3pt attempts

This also happened at the Skidmore game on Friday night.  A group of Hamilton students, especially one particular student, sat behind the Skidmore bench yelling comments at  the players and coaches.  The student was sitting next to/nearby an administrative security personnel and he was doing nothing, as was the rest of security personnel.  .  After the security was approached the student was finally escorted from the building and within 2 mins returned (without his costume) and was allowed to remain for the game yelling the same rude and vulgar comments.  So it seems that this continued through to the Union game the next day - but was allowed to go to yet a higher level of rudeness and vulgarity! 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on February 06, 2006, 09:33:18 AM
thats home court advantage boys. we yell and scream at everyone
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 06, 2006, 11:30:22 AM
No one is agruing against screaming and homecourt advantage... but post game antics are not part of the game... especially in the fashion that could lead to physical altercations
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dawg Pound on February 06, 2006, 11:22:15 PM
First, the fan at the Skidmore game was simply cheering behind the opposing team's bench.  As Hamilton continued to outclass an embarassingly bad Skidmore team, the coach became angry with the fan and asked the ref to eject him.  The ref promptly did just that and the fan got kicked out.  As the fan was leaving, he was understandly upset and may have said some vulgar things.  He came back and got kicked out within a minute of his return.

As for the events directly after the Union game:  Union's Coach allowed Union to blow a 10 point lead to lose by double digits.  After the game, our fans went onto the court to stay and applaud our seniors for senior night.  One of our fans told Coach Bob to say hi to his wife for him.  Coach Bob obviously took his frustration of a loss out on the fan and approached him screaming "I wish I could be fat, dumb and unathletic and dress up like a clown for games."  (Obviously, Coach Bob wish he could have avoided the responsibility of a loss and become a fan instead.)  Anyways, there were no racial comments made and Coach Bob was restrained.  There was a few pushes and that was about all that happened.  There were no racist comments made.

When one of the other Liberty League teams has enough of a following to have a real home court advantage, you can cheer on your team.  Until then, stay content being a second-tier Liberty League team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 07, 2006, 11:50:16 AM
I thought this message board was for people with an actual interest in the Liberty League.
Hamilton does have the best crowd in the league, but as far as them being the only first tier team, I'd have to take exception.

Union has been to the NCAA's 2 of the past 4 years.  Hamitlon doesn't appear to be the overwelming dominant force you make them out to be.

As for the fan's actions, your bias is getting the best of you, if you think thats all that was said or happened.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 07, 2006, 02:26:33 PM
I would agree w/ unionalum that the last part of that posting was a little uncalled for. The fact that Union was up by 8 proves they are not a second tier team, they have played Hamilton tough twice now, but are in jeopardy of not making the playoffs. Good support by Hamilton fans but please make sure it doesn't cross the line, and although i chuckled at the line used "say hi to your wife" only because i believe he just got divorced, that doesn't make it right to say. Reminds me of Bob Knight when they chanted "who's your daddy" and he went nuts!! Lets all support all LL teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on February 07, 2006, 03:34:30 PM
yeh, there was a racial comment made by the fans. starvin marvin from south park was used to refer to a player on union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gobombers15 on February 08, 2006, 02:20:52 AM
I get the distinct impression we may be seeing a Fisher/Hamilton Sweet 16 game. Are all the Hamilton players back and playing?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 08, 2006, 05:28:30 PM
Thats looking a bit ahead but yes all Hamilton players are playing and playing well. I hope they can run the rest of the table and the conference tourney. I just hope if somehow they don 't get through the LL tournament they can still get an at large bid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 08, 2006, 07:28:43 PM
Who do you guys consider the biggest threat to go into Hamilton and with the tourney, other than Hamilton?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 08, 2006, 10:18:01 PM
I once thought the threat would be Union, and i'm not so sure that still isn't the biggest one. I would say Hobart just because you never know but it looks like they won't even be in the tournament.  I can't say i see SLU or RPI doing anything. I think the best chance will come from the 4 seed whoever that will be. (Union or Hobart)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on February 08, 2006, 11:31:05 PM
The LL tourney should be exciting and Hamilton has to be the odds on favorite to win it.  As far as teams with a chance, it is still hard to say.  Union could certainly pull it off if they were to grab a four seed and have a week to prepare.  I have to say though, RPI has a lot of seniors and if they continue to rebound well-i think they lead the league and Schiender continues to dominate they could be the dark horse.  Likewise, Union has that senior leadership and experience like RPI and they ran the table last year...if they shoot well they could do it again...I have to say that I think Hobart has had too many things to make you wonder this year--coaching change, beating Union twice, splitting with Hamilton, but losing to Skidmore and having to almost "win out" to be there and SLU has a young team that I think is the favorite next year and the year after.  However, if things stay this way, the tourney will be at Hamilton, and that is a great advantage for them for a number of reasons, including those stated in recent posts.
I think when all is said and done we have
Hamilton (1) vs. Union (4)  &  SLU (2) vs. RPI (3)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 10, 2006, 12:41:43 AM
Watch out for Union.

Hamilton will have a huge advantage being at home in their gym, but I think Union as a few guys on their roster (1 in particular) who can really take over a game.  If those guys get hot and start hitting their shots, Hamilton could be heavily tested and beaten.

As I have stated earlier, I just don't like Coach Anderson's substitution patterns with his Hamilton team.  You can't sub guys in and out in big games and bring in 3 or 4 guys every few minutes when something goes wrong.  You go with your bread and butter and the guys that got you there (i.e. your best players).

Union and Coach Montana will follow that maxim.  They will play their guys and if they lose, they lose.  Hamilton gets real cute with their substitution patterns at times and against a veteran team like Union and a coach as seasoned as Montana that could spell:  1) Disaster, 2) Frustration, and 3) UPSET  by the Dutchmen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 10, 2006, 10:28:21 AM
Yes i'm bias...  Union can beat and lose to any team.  Although a lot of people would probably say that is true for most of the teams in the conference it is especially true for them.  Union is very similar to West Virginia... they play 5 guys who can all shoot from the permitere, their offense is heavily based on motion and player's reading the court.
 
You catch them in a bad shootin night and they will have trouble grinding out an ugly victory.  However, if it is one of those nights were they shoot 15-32 from the 3pt line.. then they are tough to beat.  Like West Virginia, they dont value rebounding numbers as highly as maybe RPI does. 

I would argue they have 2 guys who can take over a game... and one of them did just that last year against Hamilton in the championship game.  Hamilton showed me somethin that i had never seen from them last year when they battled back from over 20 down... when they take that attitude to the court, they are tough to beat.

If they were to match up in the first round, i would make the winner of that game the fav for the finals
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on February 10, 2006, 01:55:30 PM
first things first.  Union can't upset anyone if they aren't in the tournament.  They would be dangerous I agree, but the subbing patterns have worked twice already this year.  The subbing does have upside, new fresh players can guard and close out on shooters, Union does not like to put the ball on the ground.  Wearing down teams is what Hamilton likes to do, and their style is very different from anyone alse, so they are hard to play on top of being talented.  If the dutchman get the Conts., I don't like their chances, not deep enough.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on February 10, 2006, 04:11:43 PM
Quote from: bed on February 10, 2006, 12:41:43 AM
Watch out for Union.
Union has to take care of business, just as Hobart does for the next two weeks. Union faces St. Lawrence tonight, as Hobart will next week. If both teams split their weekends, losing to St. Lawrence and RPI, Hobart is the # 4 team. Even if Hobart & Union end up tied, Hobart will get the # 4 spot, due to the head to head. Union is the dark horse looking in at the moment. Interestingly, Hobart gives Hamilton their only conference loss, and loses by three in the rematch. Union lost both games, by ten and by three. Any team is vulnerable this year, and while some look at Hamilton being favored, Any of the top 5 can win the league championship this year. It likely will be Hobart and Hamilton going at it for the rubber game in round one of the LL Tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blockparty on February 10, 2006, 10:40:22 PM
Enough of this Hamilton / Union talk.  What about RPI?  They beat Hobart tonight 75-69 in front of a raucous crowd in Troy.  Schneider had his 1000th point, and a whole lot more.  27 and 21 to be exact, clearly proving he is the only possible selection for Player of the Year.  If he keeps up this level of play, anything short of a unanimous vote for Tom Schneider is highway robbery.

Oh ok, Cagianello padded his stats against joke nonconference teams.  But Liberty League play is what matters, and Schneider has RPI looking like Liberty League champions.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 11, 2006, 02:48:01 PM
Schneider does look like POY, but don't hate on Cagianello.... season on the line last night he poured in 34, for his 6th 30 pts game of the season over second place St. Lawerence.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 11, 2006, 03:52:42 PM
Schneider also could benefit in LL Player of the Year voting by Union having two strong contenders.

Schneider leads the league in scoring and rebounding with 20.8 points and 10.9 rebounds in LL games.

Meanwhile, Union's John Caginello and Brian Scordato are second and third in scoring in league games with 17.2 and 17.1 points per game, respectively. Scordato could be a strong contender due to the fact he also is averaging 7.8 rebounds and 4.3 assists in LL games. Rensselaer's next best player is Zepernick with 10.6 points and 5.1 rebounds per game in LL contests.

As for Union playing a weak non-conference schedule, I'm not sure about that. While Union is just 6-5 in LL play, and RPI is 7-3, the Dutchmen have better regional and overall records than the Engineers. U is 10-7 in the region and 13-9 overall, while RPI is 8-10 in the region and 9-11 overall.

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out, and POY voting could come down to the last few games for each of the teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 11, 2006, 04:53:36 PM
Scordato is also first in the conf in 3pt fg made, percentage, 2nd in the conf in assists, 2nd in assist to turnover ratio... and for a guard to be shooting 57% from the field is remarkable... including .569 from 3.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 11, 2006, 05:28:23 PM
Cagianello is my player of the year right now.  I put Schneider #2.

There are 3 or 4 players on the Hamilton roster better than Schneider, but they just don't get the minutes to put up the points/rebounds that he does b/c RPI's roster has much less talent than Hamilton's roster.

I think John has had a great career at Union and I think he's the Player of the Year as of early February.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 11, 2006, 05:47:09 PM
Union sweeps the weekend!

You Hamilton guys starting to feel a little less confident over there?  Im just kidding, still one more huge weekend ahead. 

New for me, is these audio broadcasts online for Union, just got to hear the game.

Cagianello scored around his average of 22, a kid on Clarkson hit like 6 3's in the final 6 minutes to keep the game close.

RPI and Vassar next weekend, can't wait
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on February 11, 2006, 07:16:47 PM
Hamilton just keeps rolling.  At this point they are going to have to have an awful night, be way off their game for anyone in this league to have a chance.  Just curious, where are the R.P.I. posts now??  Just bustin, but serioulsy, it looks like a race for second place.  Hope the games will be competitive, but right now I just don't see it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blockparty on February 11, 2006, 07:30:31 PM
The RPI / Hamilton game was a great game for 30 minutes, but RPI fell apart late in the second half.  Hopefully the two teams will meet up again in the playoffs...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on February 11, 2006, 10:07:31 PM
made a point to be at RPI and Hamilton and was impressed by both teams.  I sat not too far away from a nice older guy who was writing stats for both teams in a notebook...rpi leading 31-28 at half despite Scheinder having only 2 points.  Left impressed by both teams, and I could see both playing again in play-offs.  I thought RPI had them figured out with the zone defense, it seemed to be working throughtout the first 30 minutes or so, as another post has already said. 
It looked like Hamilton just wore them out, they look to me as though they don't lose as much when they go to the bench as most liberty league teams do. 
Having looked at the schedule prior to the game, both teams came in playing well and on winning streaks. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on February 13, 2006, 02:02:32 PM
Things get interesting this weekend for the # 4 spot. RPI should be 8-4 after tomorrow night, unless Vassar pulls the upset of the year. If they split this weekend, they will still lock up 3rd spot. Should upsets happen, they could be in 4th place. Union must win out in order to insure that they finish 9-5. This will cement their place and a share of 3/4th place.  If they finish 8-6, they have to wait on Hobart, who plays St. Lawrence on Saturday. If Hobart splits this weekend, and Union also splits with RPI, Union loses out of the playoffs, due to Hobart holding the head to head advantage.

So, the games this week are Key for the 3 teams still in the hunt for a playoff spot. Hobart really kept Union alive,  by not beating RPI this weekend. The Statesmen could be 8-4, putting RPI in the tough spot. Oh what could have been! This makes the games up north huge, with Saturday's test a big one for the Statesmen. A Union loss will give Hobart the # 4 spot, unless Hobart drops both games this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 14, 2006, 08:03:47 AM
Vassar beating RPI tonite would hardly be "the upset of the year".  It took RPI 2 ots to beat Vassar at home in January - Rpi lost at Vassar last year.  The Vassar game is huge for RPI - a win virtually clinches a conference tourney berth - They don't want to go into that Saturday game with Union with a spot on the line.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on February 14, 2006, 08:50:40 AM
Yeah, RPI at Vassar tonight is a huge game, a win and RPI is most likely in as the 3 seed.  Not an easy task for RPI, as they always seem to struggle vs Vassar.  Union has to win both this weekend, and Hobart still hasn't convinced me that they are "in" and have to go up north for the final weekend.

Thoughts on postseason awards???
Coach of the Year?
Player of the Year?
Rookie of the Year?
LL Tourney winner?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on February 14, 2006, 10:25:19 AM
Quote from: UCAAHoops21 on February 14, 2006, 08:50:40 AM
Union has to win both this weekend, and Hobart still hasn't convinced me that they are "in" and have to go up north for the final weekend.
Hobart or Union are not "in" at the moment. Union MUST win both games to cement their position. Assuming RPI wins tonight, the scenario is this:

Union & Hobart win both or lose both > Tie records at 9-5 or 7-7 and Hobart is the # 4
                                                               seed due to head to head
Union and Hobart both split> Tie records at 8-6 and Hobart is the # 4 seed due
                                               to head to head.

Union wins both, Hobart loses both or splits
or Union splits, Hobart loses both> Union is # 4 due to a better record.

Union winning both pressures Hobart into winning. Both Union and Hobart play a "weaker" team on Friday, before having challenges on Saturday. A loss on Friday by either team puts more pressure on both for Saturdays contest.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blockparty on February 15, 2006, 12:03:36 AM
RPI pulls out an ugly one against Vassar, 67-63.  A win against Skidmore or Union clinches a playoff berth.

SLU fans better be sweating now, the Red Hawks are rolling.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on February 15, 2006, 12:08:23 AM
Quote from: blockparty on February 15, 2006, 12:03:36 AM
RPI pulls out an ugly one against Vassar, 67-63.  A win against Skidmore or Union clinches a playoff berth.
SLU fans better be sweating now, the Red Hawks are rolling.
SLU is a much better team than the Brewers. RPI needs to take care of business first. They need to get it done with Union, which they didn't do earlier.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on February 15, 2006, 12:11:19 AM
Updated:
Union has to win both this weekend, and Hobart still hasn't convinced me that they are "in" and have to go up north for the final weekend.

Hobart or Union are not "in" at the moment. Union MUST win both games to cement their position.

RPI needs to win at least one game to be in this weekend, and they will likely keep the #3 seed.

Union & Hobart win both or lose both > Tie records at 9-5 or 7-7 and Hobart is the # 4
                                                               seed due to head to head
Union and Hobart both split> Tie records at 8-6 and Hobart is the # 4 seed due
                                               to head to head.

Union wins both, Hobart loses both or splits;
or Union splits, Hobart loses both> Union is # 4 due to a better record.

Union winning both pressures Hobart into winning. Both Union and Hobart play a "weaker" team on Friday, before having challenges on Saturday. A loss on Friday by either team puts more pressure on both for Saturdays contest. The Union - RPI contest looks like a great finale to the regular season.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on February 15, 2006, 12:35:17 PM
Had a chacne to see rpi early in the season and last weekend and just by looking at their results they are clearly the most improved team.  Have to wonder what happened there?
If my math is right, which is questionable at times, is it possible that SLU, RPI, Union, & Hobart all end up at 9-5?  Anyone know the tie-breaking process? 

How about this: 
Player of the Year:  Tom Schneider RPI
Rookie of the Year:  Bella Vonnack SLU
Tourney Champs:  Hamilton
Coach of the Year: Mike Griffin
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on February 15, 2006, 03:04:43 PM
Quote from: UCAAHoops21 on February 15, 2006, 12:35:17 PM
If my math is right, which is questionable at times, is it possible that SLU, RPI, Union, & Hobart all end up at 9-5?  Anyone know the tie-breaking process? 
The scenario would play out only if SLU dropped both games, Union and Hobart sweep, and RPI splits. Under this scenario, Hamilton is #1, Hobart # 2, Union # 3, and RPI #4. SLU would be out. Hamilton as the # 1 seed is the only thing for certain, and the rest are up for grabs between the teams, depending on who wins Friday Night. It likely will have to wait until Saturday afternoon.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dewcrew88 on February 15, 2006, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: UCAAHoops21 on February 15, 2006, 12:35:17 PM
Had a chacne to see rpi early in the season and last weekend and just by looking at their results they are clearly the most improved team.  Have to wonder what happened there?
If my math is right, which is questionable at times, is it possible that SLU, RPI, Union, & Hobart all end up at 9-5?  Anyone know the tie-breaking process? 

How about this: 
Player of the Year:  Tom Schneider RPI
Rookie of the Year:  Bella Vonnack SLU
Tourney Champs:  Hamilton
Coach of the Year: Mike Griffin

I watched (and covered for the local newspaper) Bela (one L not 2) when he played last year for the Canajoharie Cougars , and the few times I saw him play he was dominant, and some of it has carried over to the college ranks at SLU. He definitely deserves to be ROY.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 16, 2006, 03:48:21 PM
It's a big weekend for a few teams in the LL. Hamilton is secure, but the next four teams are all vying for playoff spots. St. Lawrence is probably next most secure, but as a previous poster stated, SLU could be out if they drop both of their games this weekend.

Here's how the games are set:

Friday
Union (14-9, 7-5 LL) at Vassar (11-11, 3-9 LL)
Hobart (11-11, 7-5 LL) at Clarkson (5-18, 2-10 LL)
Skidmore (4-18, 1-11 LL) at RPI (10-12, 8-4 LL)
Hamilton (19-3, 11-1 LL) at St. Lawrence (11-11, 9-3 LL)

I'd pick Union over Vassar, Hobart over Clarkson, RPI over Skidmore and Hamilton over St. Lawrence. Pretty much the teams with the better records, but when it comes down to crunch time, those are the teams I'd say will win.

Saturday
Skidmore at Vassar
Hobart at St. Lawrence
Union at RPI
Hamilton at Clarkson

Vassar over Skidmore, Hobart over St. Lawrence, Union over RPI, and Hamilton over Clarkson.

That would mean -- according to radiomike -- that Hamilton would be the #1 seed, Hobart #2, Union #3 and RPI #4 in the LL tourney.

What are everybody else's thoughts on how this weekend will play out?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blockparty on February 16, 2006, 05:56:52 PM
Union / Vassar is no easy pick... Vassar has a decent guard in Brazell, a former ROY in Avitabile, and a big post playter in Kieffer.  It could be a trap game for Union.

I don't see them winning in Troy either.  It's Senior Day for RPI and they lost a tough one to Union a few weeks back.  I think Union splits or even loses both.

Also, do you think Hamilton will be resting their guys this weekend?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 16, 2006, 07:48:15 PM
Hamilton will not be resting anyone trust me on that. They need to secure at least an NCAA bid and to do that they need an insurance plan and that plan is getting to 21-22 wins (if they lost in LL tourney). I can't see SLU, once the conference leader being bumped out of the playoffs. It should be really interesting.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 17, 2006, 04:30:59 PM
blockparty,
I understand what you're saying, but I think Union has too much senior leadership for Vassar. Of course, if it's a cold shooting night for the Dutchmen it could be a different story. But those guys have been to the postseason the last three years and I think they will be hyped up this weekend because they know they're playing for another postseason chance. I think they have the second best overall record in the league, but they still may need to advance to the LL tourney to get an ECAC bid.

As for the RPI/Union game, that is much tougher to predict. It's in Troy and it's Senior Night, so that gives RPI a bit of an advantage, but I still think Union's seniors have too much to lose.

While they lost both games two weekends ago, they rebounded by winning both last weekend, and Union has been known to close out seasons strong after having a mid-season swoon.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 18, 2006, 09:09:12 AM
Well, 3 out of 4 ain't bad. The big surprise was Hamilton going down against SLU, though Hobart only beating Clarkson by four was mildly surprising as well.

RPI and Union both won going away, which will make today's matchup very interesting.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on February 18, 2006, 12:53:05 PM
Well, it comes down to the final two games of the season.
St. Lawrence will be the # 2 seed. The other 2 teams are vying for spots 3 and 4.

If win by any team of the 3 teams left cements their place into the tourney, it will be determined what place they have on the opposite game. Here are the scenarios:

-------------------------------------------------------
| Winners  |                 Seeds              |
|   - Sat -     #1      #2    #3      #4      | #5
|STL  REN | HAM    STL   REN     HOB     | UNI
|STL  UNI  | HAM    STL   UNI     REN     | HOB
|HOB  REN | HAM    STL   REN     HOB    | UNI
|HOB  UNI |  HAM    STL   HOB    UNI     | REN
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 18, 2006, 06:46:08 PM
Saturday's scores as of 6:30 p.m.

Union 78, RPI 71
St. Lawrence 72, Hobart 69
Vassar 78, Skidmore 55
Hamilton 65, Clarkson 59

I guess I was 3 of 4 right again today, and it was St. Lawrence that tripped me up both days.

According to radiomike's table, Hamilton will be No. 1, SLU No. 2, Union No. 3 and RPI No. 4.

The top two seeds had opposite weekends, with St. Lawrence posting two nice victories (including one over Hamilton), while the Continentals dropped the game against SLU, and squeaked past Clarkson.

The two teams that played the best this weekend -- St. Lawrence and Union -- will now meet in the LL semifinals, and could be the best matchup of the conference tourney.

Early prediction here is for Hamilton to lose in the championship game against the SLU/Union winner. That semifinal is too close for me to call right now.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: samster on February 18, 2006, 07:23:25 PM
Quote from: thumbsup on February 10, 2006, 01:55:30 PM
first things first.  Union can't upset anyone if they aren't in the tournament.  They would be dangerous I agree, but the subbing patterns have worked twice already this year.  The subbing does have upside, new fresh players can guard and close out on shooters, Union does not like to put the ball on the ground.  Wearing down teams is what Hamilton likes to do, and their style is very different from anyone alse, so they are hard to play on top of being talented.  If the dutchman get the Conts., I don't like their chances, not deep enough.
Hamilton likes the 10 to 11 man rotation.  Full court pressure and plenty energy.  Problem is -- they've been hit with the injury bug. For the LL tournament and beyond, they must excel with an 8 to 9 man rotation which includes plenty of bench talent.  Coach Anderson is to be commended.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blockparty on February 18, 2006, 08:03:20 PM
Player of the year is wide open now.  Cagianello ended on a big note, dropping 28 on RPI.  Schneider put up decent numbers, 13 and 7.

I think Schneider is expected to put up 20 and 20 every night and when he doesn't it's shocking.  It almost sucks to have those expectations.

What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 18, 2006, 10:08:30 PM
As I've said on here before:  Cagianello for MVP.

He has had a great season.  He is the kind of player that can take over a game.   He scares teams and can explode at any moment.  He can score a ton of points in a short span b/c of his range and shooting ability.  Schneider is good, Cagianello is better.

I think Hamilton will only get beaten by Union.  Hamilton's got home court and the field house is a hard place to play in big games, b/c the crowd will come out and support the team.  Opposing teams don't like playing there.

But I think Union has the player of the year (Cagianello) and the better coach in Montana to beat Hamilton.   Hamilton SHOULD win the game based on the talent on their roster, but that's why they play the games. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on February 18, 2006, 10:14:17 PM
Agreed that Cagianello is POY. Went head to head with Schneider in a game each team thought they had to win. Cagianello stepped it up. Compliments by the way to the fans and administration at RPI. They reminded me what good sportmanship is all about.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on February 19, 2006, 06:19:53 PM
Bed:  hamilton plays R.P.I in the first round, not Union.  Union will have to beat St. Lawrence which I would not pick as of this point.  I think Hamilton's biggest threat is St. Lawrence not Union.  Just a thought.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 19, 2006, 07:53:29 PM
This is really a nearly identical situation to last season... Union won both games on the final weekend to make the playoffs.  Last season they had to play #1 seed Hobart in their building, and then Hamilton in the finals.

This year as the #3 seed, face SLU, then likely Hamilton.

Union has too much firepower for SLU... they are playing great basketball right now, and Cagianello and Scordato can really get it going at anytime.  They have the senior rock solid point guard in Murphy who doesn't really get the credit he deserves.  Put it this way, he was voted Team MVP last season, with all the same players as this one, plus Bruce.

Hamilton obviously has a tremendous advanatge being the best team and playing at home, but as we know this doesn't always get you to the Dance.  I dont see Union's seniors getting rattled by the crowd either, it would be a great game that I just might have to make the trip from Boston too.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 19, 2006, 09:27:38 PM
Thumbs up,

yeah i realize hamilton plays RPI first.....sorry if i was unclear....what i was getting at was that hamilton could possibly lose to Union.  Really wouldn't surprise me.

i think hamilton has enough to get by RPI.  Hamilton's depth will wear them down.......but i think if hamilton worries too much about the final round and overlooks RPI, RPI can give them a game and keep it close.

i dont see hamilton losing to st. lawrence AT hamilton.  If the game was in Canton, I could see hamilton losing.

i do think union poses a problem for the continentals.  as ive said before, hamilton's depth won't wear down union like that depth wears down other LL teams.  Union is too experienced and well coached and will be ready for the pressure and traps hamilton throws at them.  remember union has seen hamilton twice and should know what to expect.

As a hamilton fan, let's hope tobin anderson comes up with a good game plan and plays HIS BEST players rather than getting CUTE with his rotation and doing his normal, line changes with 3 and 4 guys subbing in at a time.

And as i've said before (sorry to beat a dead horse fellas), hamilton has NOT BEATEN ANYONE THIS YEAR!!!!!!!   They are the softest team ive seen.  Their record of 20-4 is totally inflated.

Remember, the LL is way down this season and they lost to the good teams they played:  Williams and Utica College.  And Williams had a down year this season and wasn't even a top team in the NESCAC.

Union (i know it was early in the year) beat Williams at Williams.

Hamilton should win the tourney, but don't bet the farm on it.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: fpc85 on February 19, 2006, 09:38:44 PM
is hobart in the conf. playoffs
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blockparty on February 19, 2006, 11:19:46 PM
RPI heads into the tournament with a 1-5 record against the top 3 teams.  No one, including members of this forum, thinks RPI has a shot, and that's why they will come out and surprise people.  They have a ton of depth, the underdog mentality, and great coaching.  I don't think they have ever beaten Hamilton on the road, but they are catching the Continentals at the right time.

Schneider, Zepernick, and Johnson are going to make up for their forgettable weekend and I'm predicting an RPI - Union rematch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 20, 2006, 12:34:57 AM
I just don't see RPI beating Hamilton.  I think Griffin is a solid, veteran coach, but I don't think he has the horses to take down Hamilton, especially on the road.  Hamilton beat the Engineers twice this season and I don't see any reason why RPI would beat Hamilton on Friday in the tourney.

As I said earlier, if Union gets by SLU, I think Union has the horses to pull of the upset of the #1 seed.

Anyone, notice the job Tom Murphy (Hamilton's former coach) has done for the SUNY-IT Wildcats this year.  Don't know if anyone follows the SUNY too closely, but Murphy has his team poised most likely for a #4 or #5 seed in the SUNY conference tourney.  Congrats to Coach Murphy who has proven he can win with a team that has a hard time attracting the same caliber of player as Hamilton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red1 on February 20, 2006, 01:57:06 AM
Bed,

As a former Clintonian, I decided to take a look at the Liberty League board (although it was the UCAA when I was in Clinton).  I generally reside in the NESCAC board (and I will leave this board and not return if so requested).

I don't know much about Hamilton's schedule this year, but I did notice something about the teams that are beating the Continentals.  With the expection of the game up in Canton (I don't know what's going on there) the Contintals have lost to good 3pt shooting teams.  Williams is in their second "off year" in a row.  It's "off" for Williams, but solid for most.  Their record is a result of their incredible streakiness.  They shoot 3s constantly and hit lots of them.  They lose when they get cold, or hit a defense that's good at stopping 3s, the same is true for Utica.  They're both in the top 10 in 3pt shooting in the country.

Hamilton will need to overcome this weakeness to win the LL tournament and do well in the NCAA.  Their 60th place 9.389 (as of last sunday) QOWI is not exactly conducive of a class C bid even if they are 4th in the east.

Cheers,
Red1
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 20, 2006, 11:07:40 AM
Red....

Good analysis.  Yes, I should have noted, Williams is having an "off" year for Williams.  Very good point.  That's what i meant.  Williams is still better than most of the East Region.  But the NESCAC has some powerhouses this year and is a much, much better league than the Liberty League.

My point was basically that while Hamilton's record is good, it's not really as impressive b/c of its soft schedule.  It's not the Continentals' fault, but their opposition has been lackluster all season.  And when Hamilton had a chance to beat good teams (Williams and Utica), it couldn't beat them even though Hamilton was playing at home.

I agree that the LL is only getting 1 team in the NCAA's and if Hamilton loses in the tourney, they will be playing in the ECAC's and not the NCAA's.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on February 20, 2006, 07:11:13 PM
If I remember a posting correctly from last year - if Hamilton does not qualify for the NCAA's, there there is no ECAC's either. Thought it had something to do with Hamilton's affiliation with the Nescac for football.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 20, 2006, 08:05:30 PM
I will be at the LL games this weekend so I will take a look at all angles. I agree the LL is down this year but Union did beat Williams and Hamilton beat Union twice so there is some competitiveness (is that a word?) in the teams. Hamilton did play Utica w/o two starters, but yes yes yes I agree the LL is not strong. I would also agree that Hamilton has to win the tourney to get into the NCAA tournament. I think they will have no problem with RPI but I will be on pins and needles for the winner of the SLU/Union game. Should be a good weekend of games! I believe unionalum said Hamilton would be them twice in the regular season but predicted a Hamilton defeat in the tournament by Union. We shall see...............good luck to all LL teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 20, 2006, 10:20:29 PM
Yes, that was my prediction... this season just seems so eerily similar to last.

I talked to a recent Hamilton alum today and asked him the difference between last year's team and this year's.

He said "this team cares" and "this team does not care who scores, everyone just wants to win"

If this is accurate, then Hamilton could be in for a special year, because the talent is certainly there.

The one thing about Union though, that there is really nothing you can do about is if they get it going.  When Cagianello and Scordato are hitting, it doesn't matter what you do or who you throw at them... they are more talented and better basketball players then what you have.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: superman57 on February 20, 2006, 11:24:46 PM
I'm normally an empire 8 poster and a Fisher Student, but if everything that I'm hearing is true than if Fisher and Hamilton meat up again in the tourny, then Fisher should be favored because they are a 3 point shooting team.  Has anyone else seen Fisher play?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 21, 2006, 07:13:23 AM
Fisher never, ever beats Hamilton.  Never happens.  Check the history.  No matter how great or unstoppable Fisher seems in the regular season, and no matter how much Hamilton seems like an inferior team.............doesnt matter come NCAA tourney time.  Hamilton owns Fisher.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: superman57 on February 21, 2006, 09:13:35 AM
really? check your History didn't Fisher beat Hamilton in 2004.  That doesn't sound like never
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bamm on February 21, 2006, 09:42:24 AM
Quote from: bed on February 21, 2006, 07:13:23 AM
Fisher never, ever beats Hamilton. Never happens. Check the history. No matter how great or unstoppable Fisher seems in the regular season, and no matter how much Hamilton seems like an inferior team.............doesnt matter come NCAA tourney time. Hamilton owns Fisher.

March 4, 2004
SJF - 90
@
Hamilton - 83

Never happens.  LOL

Oh, and that was in the NCAA's, too. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gobombers15 on February 21, 2006, 09:48:37 AM
In Hamilton's house, no less.
Title: Ray
Post by: col on February 21, 2006, 10:19:25 AM
bed, ignore that crap.  These are the same guys that say Ray Bryant isn't the best player in the E8.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: John McGraw on February 21, 2006, 11:46:52 AM
St. John Fisher did actually beat Hamilton that year. I was at the game broadcasting for D3hoops.com. I think its a safe bet that these two teams, as long as they win their respective tournaments, will hook up in the second round or in the Sweet Sixteen.

It would be a pretty decent match up this year between Fisher's speed and three point shooting ability against Hamilton's frenetic pacing and height. Either Varsity Gym or the Field House would rock for that one. Fisher being higher in the regional rankings, if they meet in the second round, would host. But, having Cortland in the mix, Hamilton might be sent to Cortland, or could somehow manage to host a sub-regional of their own.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 21, 2006, 12:44:34 PM
You guys are getting way ahaead of yourselves... haven't we learned not to count out the Dutchmen???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 21, 2006, 05:16:44 PM
I think Hamilton has to win the LL tourney to make the NCAA tourney, while Fisher (however unlikely it is) could lose the E8 tourney and still get a bid. Fisher actually has a better chance of winning their tournament than Hamilton.

Both teams are the favorite, and both should win their tournaments based on talent, but how many times have we seen more talented teams lose when it comes to conference tourney time, for example, Hamilton last year.

Seeing that this is the LL board I refrain from my E8 tourney predictions here. For the LL tournament, I think Hamilton will outlast RPI, while I'll go with Union over St. Lawrence. Both teams won both of their contests last weekend, but foor Union it was a matter of winning both to make the conference tournament. St. Lawrence had to not lose both to stay in.

I also think it is tough for one team to beat another three times in one season, and that is the ultimate reason I think Union will edge Hamilton in the conference championship.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on February 21, 2006, 05:37:59 PM
Having watched all four teams that are in the liberty league tourn., I will go with Hamilton big over RPI.  Too much pressure for RPI's guards to handle.  I think the other game will be fun to watch and be very close.  I have St. Lawrence in a tight one over Union.  This could be an unofficial passing of the torch from Union to St Lawrence as being the other team along with Hamilton that will vie for the conference bid each season.  I will take Hamilton by 12 or so over St. Lawrence in the final.  Not really going out  on a limb here, but with all the Union fans picking their team, it almost feels like Hamilton is the underdog here.  Should be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 21, 2006, 08:39:06 PM
i stand corrected.  forgot about the Hamilton loss to Fisher in 04.  My apologies. 

if you look historically (say the last 5 times they've played each other)........many of which were in the postseason...........Fisher hasn't won (as far as i remember EXCEPT for that 04 win.

the point is:  hamilton usually plays in a tougher conference.  this season the LL is down, but in the past Hamilton has not had as good a regular season record and often played at Fisher b/c Fisher had a superb record (sometimes with just a couple of losses for the year) b/c they played in a very, very weak conference.  Hamilton would often come in as the underdog and beat them on their court or at U of R b/c Hamilton was better in big games.   Fisher always played well, but was ultimately worn down.

This season, Hamilton would beat Fisher.  However, I agree, I dont think Hamilton is a lock to get by Union.  I think Union is a tough out in the LL tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red1 on February 22, 2006, 05:01:07 PM
Hamilton has rarely had trouble with Fisher.  When the Nescac was first allowed to go the NCAAs it became a yearly event for Hamilton to travel to Rochester to take on St. John Fisher in the second round, and they'd routinely beat Fisher badly.

Even with the LL down, I doubt that Hamilton, or anyone else in LL has played as weak a schedule as Fisher.  They routinely play 1 or 2 decent teams, get 1 or 2 losses, and at 22-2 or 23-1 get a first round bye.  Then they prove how weak their schedule really is when they get blasted at home by Hamilton or Rochester in the second or third round.  Beating up on a weak subset of teams in an already weak region will get you into the big dance with a good record, but it won't prepare you to play the rest of the teams that make it in who have played an array of strong and weak teams to learn about different styles and skill levels.

Hamilton will likely face Union in the finals of the LL tournament, and they should be able to pull off the victory.  If Union upsets the Continentals Hamilton would still be on the bubble and have a shot at an at large bid, but they're far from a lock.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bamm on February 22, 2006, 05:35:54 PM
The history lesson is great, but the fact is, if anything, the LL is worse than a relatively weak E8 this year.  On top of that, Fisher has played a tougher schedule than Hamilton (Baldwin-Wallace, Randolph Macon, Rochester, Utica twice).  Hamilton played Utica, and they lost (yeah, without a couple players).

Who, exactly, has Hamilton beaten to convince anyone they are a good squad?  They played a relatively average Williams team, at home, and lost.  They lost at home to Hobart.  And they got beat by an average St. Lawrence squad.

What I'm trying to tell you is this:

Quote from: Red1 on February 22, 2006, 05:01:07 PM
Even with the LL down, I doubt that Hamilton, or anyone else in LL has played as weak a schedule as Fisher.

Is crap.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bamm on February 22, 2006, 05:56:55 PM
One more thing to add.  From what I can tell, the Empire 8 is 9-3 against the Liberty League this year.

Once again proving that this:

Quote from: Red1 on February 22, 2006, 05:01:07 PM
Even with the LL down, I doubt that Hamilton, or anyone else in LL has played as weak a schedule as Fisher.

Is complete crap.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 22, 2006, 06:00:50 PM
I think Hamilton rolls this weekend and we'll see what happens w/ the NCAA, I think Fisher is subpar at best.

Someone mentioned a Murphy post on here not that long ago and SUNY -IT. That school and that coach deserve each other so i am glad to see him do well. Thats the caliber of program he should be running so hats off to his season.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bamm on February 22, 2006, 07:18:33 PM
I don't want to sound like a Fisher nut, which I'm not.  I don't think they are top 15 in the country, which is where they are ranked.  I do think they are the best in the region though, and at home against Hamilton -- which, barring an upset this weekend, any NCAA game would be -- I would consider them a favorite.
Title: Shooters
Post by: bed on February 22, 2006, 08:37:40 PM
Why are you down on Coach Murphy?  In your post, you seem to have some anger towards Murphy......anything you care to share??

His record at Hamilton was exemplary.  He is the 4th winningest coach (he may be 3rd right now) all time in wins in Division III history.

From my dealings with him, he always seemed to be one of the most honest, down to earth people I've encountered.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 23, 2006, 03:47:15 PM
This is a Liberty League posting area, not one for Murphy or SUNYIT, I believe there is a section for those postings. I have my reasons, many of which I can't post, but I will try and refrain from any further negative comments. I will be at the conference tourney this weekend so I look forward to some good action. I would like to bring my laptop to the games and keep up w/ the postings but I don't want to be the guy in the gym w/ the laptop so I'll just catch up w/ you guys on Monday and see what shakes out. My predictions is Hamilton over RPI, rather big, then I think it will be Downs and SLU in the final and again i'm taking Hamilton over SLU by about 11. Deep down I would like to see Union there playing Hamilton but I gotta go w/ what I know.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 23, 2006, 10:13:14 PM
Conference Awards just came out
POY- Schneider

1st Team:
Schneider
Cagianello
Scordato
Welchons
Jones

2nd Team:
Avitable
Feane
Grazioli
Ngobeni
Vonnak
White

rookie:  Vonnak
Coach: Downs

Now time to vent....
Cagianello got robbed... head to head last game of the year, for all each team knew, they had to win to get in.  Schneider did nothing, maybe 13 and 7... Cagianello 28.
Cagianello 11 20 pt games, Schneider 7.... 30 pt games Cag- 7.... Schneider 2
Cag shot better from the field even at 50%
He was #7 in steals

i would even argue Scordato was better.
#6 in scoring, #4 in rebounding, #4 in assists
Most 3 pt field goals,  3rd in assist to turn over ratio

This is a travesty
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gobombers15 on February 23, 2006, 10:30:21 PM
Amen, Bamm. The E8 has had its way with the LL this year. To say Fisher is "subpar at best" and "hasn't played anyone" is to display such ignorance for the facts that I almost think you put no research into either one of those dumb assertions, Red.

Fisher lost to the #2 team in the nation when a) they were taking B-W very lightly in the opener, and b) They were missing the best defensive player in the region (Nick Bennett). I can guarantee you that if Bennett was playing in that game, Fisher scores a few more than 79 points and gives up A LOT less than 88. In the loss at R-MC, Fisher got homed pretty badly. If you go back and look at the foul counts in that game it's absolutely atrocious. Even Fisher's radio guy, who is one of the most objective D3 broadcasters I've heard, was going off about it. Furthermore, R-MC fans even came on the E8 boards to say they shouldn't have won that game and they were very lucky.

The loss to Naz was simply a rivalry game. Throw out the records, etc. Very similar to the Union/RPI football game if you needed that for an LL analogy. As Bamm said, Hamilton is the one team that hasn't beaten anyone. Until you have some ground to stand on, I'd be careful of what I say.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blockparty on February 24, 2006, 12:35:33 AM
Union's entire offense revolves around Cagianello coming off of screens.  He's got a great J, but Schneider is a better overall player and athlete.  He does more with less.  A lot of his points come off of offensive rebounds, sometimes his own missed shots.  Take Cagianello off of the Dutchmen and you still have a playoff-caliber team; take Schneider off of RPI and they'd struggle.

How many rebounds did Cagianello average?  How many 20 and 20 games?  How many double doubles?  How many player of the week awards?

Cagianello is tied for Union's scoring record, but that's over four years.  Maybe some of his career stats are better, but the award is player of the YEAR.

It's only a "travesty" because you were pulling for Cagianello from the opening game.  Just man up and admit the better player won.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 24, 2006, 01:10:15 AM
Well, I posted a few days ago it was possible that Caginello and Scordato might split the voting for POY and it looks like that may have happened, as both were 1st teamers. Let me clarify that I DO think Schneider is a great player, blockparty, but if you want unionalum to "man up and admit the better player won," you also must consider the possibility that Schneider won because two players with very similar stats from the same team could have split the voting.

It was also obvious when looking at the all-conference teams that Hamilton has the most talent. Anything less than a LL title should be considered a disappointing season for Hamilton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 24, 2006, 08:01:22 AM
I totally agree with Rjcarter.

Cagianello was POY in my opinion.  I think you can make a case for Schneider.  I wouldn't say Cagianello got "robbed", but I think your analysis of Scordato helping split the vote is accurate, as well as Hamilton's talent.

I think Hamilton beats RPI by double digits at least 8 tonight.  Union-SLU comes down to the final 2 minutes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 24, 2006, 09:46:26 AM
First, I wouldn't be admitting to the "better player" I would be admitting to the player with the better season... the "better player" and "better career" is not in question.

If you think that Union's office revolves around Cagianello, then you have either not seen Union play enough, or don't understand what they are doing out there.

Union's office is constant motion, with each player having an equal opportunity to each spot in their offense.  This is why it is so hard to scout and so hard to defend.  Cagianello gets his points because he is a great player and a great shooter.

I agree with the argument that the two Union players must have split votes, and to say Ive been pulling for Cagianello since day one is 100% accurate.

All I know about PLayer of the Year's, is I want to see where they are at when the stakes are the highest.  We saw where Cagianello was at on Saturday, and we've seen where he is at in the past in both Conf. playoff games and NCAA games.

Where was Schneider?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 24, 2006, 06:41:09 PM
St. Lawrence leads 38-30 at halftime. At one point Union had a 25-17 lead.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 24, 2006, 06:53:42 PM
St. Lawrence
Vonnak 10 pts
Blue 7 pts

Union
Scordato 18 pts 7-11 from field, 4-6 3 pt (moved into 7th place on career scoring list)
Mackey 5 pts
Caginiello 3 pts 1-3 3pt (now 1st on career scoring list)

That's what the announcer just said during halftime

So far caginiello hasn't done much, but it seems like St. Lawrence is keying on him a bit. However, I'm only listening to the game on Teamline, so I don't really know.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 24, 2006, 07:52:02 PM
Union beats St. Lawrence 73-70

No final stats given on the Teamline broadcast, but Scordato probably finished with 30-plus points.

SLU has a heave at the buzzer, but it didn't go.

Union advances to the LL title game Saturday versus the winner of tonight's game between No. 1 Hamilton and No. 4 RPI (probably Hamilton).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 24, 2006, 09:37:44 PM
Mr. Scordato loves the conference tournament!

Hamilton, now we're waiting on you guys, take care of your part.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blockparty on February 25, 2006, 08:46:21 AM
Quote from: unionalum on February 24, 2006, 09:46:26 AM
All I know about PLayer of the Year's, is I want to see where they are at when the stakes are the highest.  We saw where Cagianello was at on Saturday, and we've seen where he is at in the past in both Conf. playoff games and NCAA games.

Where was Schneider?

Where was Cagianello last night?  Granted they won, but 9 and 2 is not a good night for him.  Schneider was the only reason RPI kept it close last night, with 24 and 11, and SIX threes.  Stakes were pretty high last night...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 25, 2006, 11:20:49 AM
LL First Teamer -- Caginello 9 points, Union beats St. Lawrence 73-70
Dutchmen now face No. 1 seeded Hamilton in the LL title game

LL Player of the Year -- Schneider 24 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 threes, St. Lawrence loses to Hamilton 75-63.

I guess I'm over the POY thing, but you are right blockparty, Schneider had a better game against Hamilton Friday than Caginello did against St. Lawrence Friday night.

By the way, Union's Brian Scordato had 27 points, six rebounds, six assists, 6 threes, and his team won. Maybe he should have been POY, he had better totals in points and assists, and he and Schneider tied with six threes apiece.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 25, 2006, 12:03:18 PM
I'll admit maybe I put too much emphasis on that one Saturday game where they played each other.

Cagianello never got it going yesterday, after opening the game with a 3.

Scordato carried Union, much like he did in last year's championship against Hamilton where he scored 34.

I talked to the guys last night, they are fired up.  It's going to be an amazing atmosphere, wish I could be there.

Instead I'm stuck listening to the broadcast online.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 25, 2006, 03:58:19 PM
Hamilton beating Union 54-36 at halftime

Hamilton was 12-20 from three in the first
Union had 7 3s
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 25, 2006, 04:40:58 PM
Hamilton beats Union 107-72 to win the LL title.

The Continentals were ridiculous from the field today, and I have to give the players props for their performance. Hamilton moves on to the NCAA tourney, while Union should get a ECAC bid.

Hamilton was 12-of-20 from three-point range and hit 19 for the game
Welchons 30 pts, 8-of-11 from three-point range
Ngobeni 19 pts
Valenti 17 pts
Jones 11 pts
Peck 10 pts

Union had 7 three-pointers in the first half, not sure what the total was.
Caginello 24 pts
Scordato 14 pts
Madej 11 pts

Anderson was 3-0 head-to-head against Montana this season, but it is easy to go 22-4 when you have talent like that. I look at it more like Hamilton's 5 all-conference players against Union's 3 all-conference players. I know only Caginello and Scordato were named to a conference team, but Murphy also belonged on at least the second team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on February 25, 2006, 05:12:36 PM
Anderson coached them out of the tourny again.  Wait, he won??  Unreal some of the people on here.  Anyway, no big suprise here, the class of the league won, only slight surprise for me was Union beating St. Lawrence.  Thought SLU was better and would have given Hamilton a better final game.  107 points??  Wow, maybe all of that subbing works every now and then.  When Hamilton was at full strength this year, they have been tough, losses came when players were out i.e. Utica (no international kids), St. Law(no Peck, arguably the teams most important player, etc.  I think, with the watered down region, they have a shot to come out of New York.  I can't wait for all of the Fisher support, but they have to win at that level (regional) for me to believe.  Plattsburgh came out the Sunyac, Fisher struggled with R.I.T., and it looks like the Conts may be peaking.  Not gloating much am I (ha).  But seriously, congrats to Toby anderson and Matt Capell, two good guys doing good things at Hamilton and don't forget old man Anderson, the real brains behind the machine there.  Could they be hosting??  We'll see
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blockparty on February 25, 2006, 05:26:16 PM
Quote from: unionalum on February 25, 2006, 12:03:18 PM
I'll admit maybe I put too much emphasis on that one Saturday game where they played each other.

Cagianello never got it going yesterday, after opening the game with a 3.

Scordato carried Union, much like he did in last year's championship against Hamilton where he scored 34.

I talked to the guys last night, they are fired up.  It's going to be an amazing atmosphere, wish I could be there.

Instead I'm stuck listening to the broadcast online.

Well it was a great season.  Good luck to the teams moving on.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 25, 2006, 08:35:14 PM
Thumbsup, I can only interpret the beginning of your post as a shot at mine. I don't believe I ever said Anderson coached Hamilton out of the tournament. I only said with as talented a team as Hamilton is, it would be difficult to not go 22-4 and not win the LL title.

Also, as for the final score, St. Lawrence would have been hard pressed to do anything against a team that 19-of-31 from three-point range for the game (61 percent), 39-of-63 from the field ( 61 percent) and 10-of-12 from the foul line.

Union did shoot 13-of-26 from three-point range (50 percent) and 27-of-56 from the field (48 percent), both of which are pretty decent numbers. However when you run into a team shooting like Hamilton it's pretty hard to keep up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red1 on February 25, 2006, 11:08:36 PM
Does anyone know if those 3pt. numbers were records of any kind?

19 three's in a half (total)
12 three's in a half by a team (Hamilton)
32 three's in a game (total)
19 three's in a game by a team (Hamilton)

Cheers,
Red1


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Red1 on February 25, 2006, 11:18:28 PM
Never mind, I answered my own question.  They're not even close to records.  I forgot about the Grinnell system.  They've made more than double what Hamilton and Union did.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on February 26, 2006, 12:12:28 AM
No shots at anyone.  I still believe St. Lawrence would have got after it more defensively than Union did.  This league has been pretty much the same thing the last 6 years.  Even when Murph was at Hamilton, it wasn't a stellar conference at all in the 2000's.  Murph left the cupboard in great shape, welchons, peck, tk, etc.  but I don't remember too many of those teams putting on performances like this years group, post 2000.  Not a shot at Murph here at all, just trying to give some credit to a staff who at this point should get a first round home game in the NCAA's.  No shots at anyone, all is good.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on February 26, 2006, 12:27:55 PM
Congrats to Hamilton who are the deepest team I have seen in d-III in a long time. Arguably their top ten players could start for any of the LL teams. To RJCarter, agree with you about the Union PG, Murphy, should have been at least second team. Four years running led league in assists/TO, either 1st or 2nd all four years in assists and not even an Honorable Mention is an insult. A true pass first PG rarely is recognized for these honors, points seem to be all that counts. Was last year's team MVP. Recently named All-Academic LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 26, 2006, 03:33:20 PM
Ok i was at the conference tourney this weekend and I have some serious issues with a lot of what has been said on this site regarding coaching. I watched 30 minutes of zone defense by Union in the championship game while Hamilton sat out there and shot pretty much wide open threes. Those folks on this site that think Montana is a great coach I question your knowledge. I would love to hear from Unionalum, because there has to be an explanation here as to why they didn't mix up their defense. They went man for a bit but it was well after Hamilton was leading by 25 plus points. I think many who have posted saying it would be hard for any team to beat Hamilton when they shot 60% from the field, let alone from 3 pt. land, didn't see the looks Hamilton was getting. Most of those 3s were with no defender within 5 ft of them. Hamilton could have won by 60 with the defense Union played, lucky for Union they started subbing in mop up players w/ 7 minutes to go. Union does have some serious shooters themselves but I would agree the POY selection after watching all games this weekend.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 26, 2006, 04:47:13 PM
Alright, not being at the game makes it a little more difficult for me to respond.  With the quality of the broadcast, I was not informed if Union was mixing up their defenses or not. 

Before I address the weakness of the zone two things:
1) Montana has used this zone effectively enough to take his teams to 2 of the past 5 NCAA's
2) Not many teams would shoot 19-31 in an empty gym by themselves

Union's primary zone defense is a rotating box around the "5" or center.
It has its holes, and quick perimeter ball movement, mixed in with a few skip passes, can easily get you aan open 3 pointer
Also, I dont know if Hamilton was doing this but a pass to the high post, and a kick out, also creates wide open three's

Montana coached teams are usually not known for their defense or rebounding.  What makes them successful is their ability to shoot and smart players that don't turn it over.

We saw on Saturday that went Murphy went down, Mackey couldn't handle the ball.  The two backup point guards (one freshman and one sophomore) did not develop enough to earn Montana's trust and so he was forced to use Mackey.

And to you guys defending Murphy, you couldnt be more right.  his stats, turnover/assist ratio and total assist speak for themselves, but he also hit about 3 or 4 buzzer beaters in his career, including the Liberty League semis last year to defeat Hobart.  He goes unnoticed for the most part, but when he's not there is when you truly notice him.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 26, 2006, 06:48:50 PM
I appreciate the response unionalum, i'm not trying to get on union, just wanted an explanation, I mean people all over the stands were questioning the coaching moves. I did take special attention to Hamilton's coach and he seemed to be totally involved and coaching the game. Those who questioned the subbing pattern must not have seen Hamilton play before because they really do go about 10 deep w/o missing a beat. They have a backup point guard who is really good and this guy down low, Wood, can play for a freshman. Someone awhile ago stated that Anderson should play Giorgi and TK more and not favor "his" players. Well I noticed TK got all the time he needed and Giorgi didn't play much but looked out of place on the floor. If you watch Hamilton I noticed that most of the players look to the coach and tell him when they want out, its not the coach pulling the players. If you haven't watched Hamilton play, whether you agree or disagree w/ the subbing patterns and style it sure is fun to watch. The players seem to really enjoy it too, of course hitting everything they put up helps in the "fun" department. Good look in the ECAC unionalum, I'll be pulling for them. On a side note i noticed Union didn't stay around for their second place award like other teams normally do, it seemed kind of well, i don't want to say "classless" but definitely worth noting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 26, 2006, 07:07:38 PM
I don't know Tobin's coaching style as well as some of you guys who have seen them play many times, but it's easy to sub when you're up 20-30 pts... in a close game it is much harder for a coach to make subbing moves.

Also, just asked one of the guys if they stayed... he said no, and said he didn't even know there was one.  (they came in second before, so I dont know how to take this response)... I don't know why they didn't stay, seems unusual.

Some of the guys on the team are some of the more competitive people I have ever met, and they were just in disbelief after the game of what happened.  Wasn't even an upset tone from some of the guys or for that matter even Montana... more like, on somedays there is nothing you can do. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 26, 2006, 07:13:51 PM
Shooters:

I think some of your comments were directed at me, because I was one of the people who questioned:  1) coach anderson; 2) his substitution patterns; and 3) other issues regarding the team and his relationship with the players.

I also know that we will never agree on another topic:  you have issues with former Hamilton Coach Tom Murphy (now at SUNY-IT), while I believe (as do most other coaches around the country) that Coach Murphy is one of the greatest coaches in D3 history.  And you are entitled to your opinion and you have said you have your reasons, and I respect your position.  

We also disagree about Coach Anderson.  I don't think much of him, while you like to sing his praises.  You sound like one of his ex-assistant coaches!!  And we can agree to disagree on Coach Anderson as well.   You're never going to care for Coach Murphy, and it will take me a while to come around on Coach Anderson.

We do agree on some things though:  1) I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would ever run a zone defense (including a matchup, 1-3-1, 2-3, etc.) on this Hamilton team.  On top of that, once Montana saw it wasn't working, why not make an adjustment?  On Saturday afternoon, I'm not sure any defense would've stop Hamilton's ridiculously good shooting.  They looked the best they have all season.........2) Giorgi did look a bit out of step out there.  My sources tell me that Coach Anderson thinks he's still too slow (feet arent quick enough out there), but I disagree.  He didnt' play at all in the 2nd half on Friday and played only 14 minutes on Saturday.  I think he's just out of step, b/c he has been out there consistently enough.  Please don't question his talent, as when Coach Anderson has given him minutes, he's put up big numbers this season.

On another point you raised:  Coach Anderson (and I give him credit for this) has stopped subbing in 4 guys at a time.  He made adjustments.  I respect that.  He also decided to play TK----you are correct on that point.  However, earlier in ths season, he wasn't consistently playing TK, which I can tell you was baffling to other teams and fans alike.

I know you like Nick Jones (he's a former Clarkson guy), but there's no way he's as good as TK.  I know you won't agree with me on this point.  I don't think making the 1st or 2nd All-LL team is the be all and end all.  Both are great players, but I think TK is better.  If he played on RPI or other teams in the league and got consistent minutes all year, he could've been player of the year.

Finally, I can tell you that some of Anderson's players still don't like him or trust him (despite what it may appear to you by watching the games).  Everyone wants to win, so they'll work with him to win, but that doesn't mean they like Coach Anderson.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 26, 2006, 07:16:03 PM
Unionalum:

I would be curious (when you get a chance) to ask some of those Union guys who they think are the best players on Hamilton.  Do they fear Nick Jones more or TK?

To me, Welchons and TK are the two best players on Hamilton.  Jones is one of the softest big guys I've seen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 26, 2006, 07:26:45 PM
I will ask them... but I know for a fact it would be unanimous... Welchons... dropped 38 in last year's Liberty League final, 30 in this one... but I'll find out
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 26, 2006, 08:28:13 PM
Unionalum,

I think Welchons is a tremendous all around player.  He can shoot, drive, etc.

The reason I brought it up was b/c of some on this site posting about how good Nick Jones is..........I mean he's a good player.  But in my mind, Welchons and TK are the best players on the team.

I just don't view Jones as the explosive threat that I see out of Welchons and TK.  Curious to know what the Union players feel regarding TK vs. Jones.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 26, 2006, 08:52:14 PM
Just spoke with 3 of Union's elder statesmen (3 seniors)

1. Welchons  2. TK   3.  Jones

1. Welchons  2.  TK  3. Jones  4. Peck/Valenti

1.  Welchons  2. TK  3. Jones  4. Valenti
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 26, 2006, 08:55:44 PM
Thanks for the info............that's what I would have ranked them too.  Glad to hear the actual players feel the same way.

Even funnier------is that Coach Anderson (on various occassions this season) has told Welchons---------this IS NO JOKE------------Anderson told Welchons to stop shooting so much.   He wanted Welchons to shoot less.

Funny stuff from Tobin.  He's a piece of work.  No wonder the only players that like him are the two guys from Clarkson:  Jones and Valenti.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 26, 2006, 09:10:58 PM
I have a very good friend who graduated from hamilton last year who has confirmed much of what you have said
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2006, 09:33:32 PM
Unionalum is Geppetto's still open, and if they are do they still have amazing food.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 26, 2006, 09:36:58 PM
Of course it's still open, but I would have to say the food at Rupsis far surpasses the food at gepettos'
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: superman57 on February 26, 2006, 09:41:06 PM
Where is Rupsis, is that on Nott street too
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on February 26, 2006, 10:02:39 PM
1549 Carrie St... go pass Mohawk and it's on your left

umm, to add a bball note, just so we don't bore the rest of you guys suffering through this

If TK and Schneider switched spots, what would happen?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 26, 2006, 10:25:39 PM
My point was more directed at TK's talent.  If you put TK on RPI, he would put up better numbers, b/c he would log more minutes and would be "the guy"

Schneider had a great season and led the team b/c he had to......whereas the balance of Hamilton's offense doesnt truly show how good TK really, really is......

Also----b/c of Coach Anderson's unexplicable coaching moves, TK didnt play as much as he should have for the first half of the season.

There was a player years ago for Skidmore, I believe his name was Brian Culkin.  He was a hell of a player.  The kid could score at will.  He won a lot of games on his own----he really had to b/c they didnt have much of a supporting cast at Skidmore.   When you are "the guy" like Schneider, it's easier to put up solid numbers every game b/c you have to............

My point:  TK seems to have been overlooked by Anderson for half the season and hasn't been able to flourish as much as he would have had Coach Murphy still been coaching the team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 26, 2006, 11:47:37 PM
Bed,

At least we agree on a few things and that is comforting. I will not argue nor have i said that Jones is better than TK. I think when TK wants he can be the best player in league, again when he wants. Nick Jones is softer than ice cream, plain and simple. Welchons has had some god awful shooting nights so I can understand why Anderson told him to put away his gun, if you look at Hamilton's 4 losses and the amount of shots Welchons took and his percentages I think most would come to that conclusion. As for the subbing and being up 25, 3 minutes into the game the subbing started and the team was up six, so i don't think the comment about its easy to sub up 25 holds much merit. (that might have been unionalum's comment). I would ask you one question as you again lay into Anderson, does any player like change in their program? Playing for one coach and then another in a four year period has to be tough on any program. I applaud the way the team has played this season and last. My question is when does this player v. coach, who likes who and who doesn't end? Is it after this season? the next? I still haven't met Anderson but made a point to sit on the side where he was coaching and watched a lot of what went on. One of you said i was an assistant of his or something? No, I'm not in coaching, never have been. I played in the East and my sister went to Hamilton so I've been a fan for some time. I saw Utica made it into the tournament, that is questionable at best and looks like NYU played themselves out of a spot. Should be an interesting tourney, seeds come out tomorrow.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 27, 2006, 07:45:00 AM
ECAC's

Manual says 500 or better. overall or divisional

Committee is chaired by Mike Lindberg at Ithaca

Committee includes reps from Fisher (NCAA team), Keuka (likely #1 seed) Rochester (likely team), Fredonia (SUNY rep) & Union (likely team LL rep)

Quick pass would suggest:

Keuka
Oswego
Union
Rochester
Potsdam
Brockport
Ithaca
SUNYIT

Criteria:


Quote
1. Divisional winning percentage, head–to-head results, results against common opponents;
2. Strength-of-schedule to be determined in part by results against teams selected into the
NCAA or already in the tournament; and
3. Regular season conference standings.
Note: The committee must review all criteria above in the order listed. A team may have an
excellent winning percentage; however the strength of schedule and results against teams in the
tournament also must be examined.

Others in the mix:
Alfred (divisional > .500)
RIT
SLU
Buffalo St
Hobart
Vassar (overall >.500)

Will know later today
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on February 27, 2006, 12:06:17 PM
hamilton definately got the shaft with this bracket. amherst in the 2nd round, come on now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: mrmike88 on February 27, 2006, 12:47:56 PM
Some of the Amherst fans are wondering what we did to deserve Hamilton, too.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shea on February 27, 2006, 01:45:08 PM
Noone wants to look ahead to see Amherst waiting for them in the second round, but allow me to make a few points.

1- The purpose of the tournament is to determine a national champion.  In short, to be the best you have to beat the best.  As such, one should expect to play tough teams along the way.  If the Conts are better than the Jeffs, then it shouldn't matter when they meet.  The same holds true if the Jeffs are the better team.

2- Hamilton has had a good run this year and their few losses have often come either on the road or without their full roster.  BUT, Hamilton hasn't beaten any quality teams and I can understand why the committee wouldn't give the Continentals a cakewalk to the sweet sixteen. 

3- One shouldn't look past any team when it comes time to dance.  People have been griping about Amherst in round 2, but Hamilton still has to get the job done at home vs. Plattsburgh.  Conts should win, but I bet Anderson isn't talking to his team about Amherst.

4- Lastly, a question.  Does anyone know anything about how Plattsburgh and Hamilton match up?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Knightstalker on February 27, 2006, 02:30:32 PM
 ECAC Selections  (http://www.ecac.org/feature/feature.asp?id=2816)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: JeffRookie2 on February 27, 2006, 04:15:27 PM
Hey, I'm an Amherst fan coming over from my typical home on the NESCAC boards. Wondering what type of team the Continentals are, who to look out for. How does it work, by the way, that Hamilton is in the NESCAC in football but not in basketball?

For those who may be curious about Amherst, our premier player is John Bedford who plays either the 2 or 3, likes to get in the lane and also has a nice jumper. Also dangerous are power forward Dan Wheeler and point guard Andrew Olson. Pretty much everyone on the team can hit the three, which from what I understand, is very similar to Hamilton. Our biggest weakness, in my opinion, is defending against interior post-up players. Our bench is very deep, we have a d1 transfer who is the third guy off the bench in most games, but can be a big scoring threat once he gets in.

I would really appreciate any scouting you could give me on Hamilton.

Best of luck with Cortland.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shea on February 27, 2006, 04:53:26 PM
Welcome to the LL board, JeffRookie.

Hamilton played a full NESCAC schedule until a few years ago when they became an inaugural member of the UCAA (now the Liberty League).  There were a number of factors for this, but in my opinion the primary one was the fact that Hamilton lacked a travel partner in the NESCAC.  This meant that the Continentals used to travel up to Maine, let's say, and play Colby on Friday night while the Bowdoin coach rested his players and attended the game to scout out the team.  Then the rested Bowdoin team would play Hamilton the next day.  This scenario happened week in and week out for the basketball team and to a lesser extent some of the other teams as well.  I don't think Hamilton wanted to lose its affiliation with the NESCAC because 1- it was a founding member of that league, and 2- it is stronger both athletically and academically than the LL.  If I had my druthers, I'd find a way to keep Hamilton an all-sport NESCAC school, but I'm neither fully informed nor have the power to influence any decision.

In terms of scouting Hamilton, here are a few pointers.  The Continentals start two freshmen, Henry Ciocca and Ryan Cafferty.  Ciocca has excellent hands (strong turnover/assist ratio).  He can't shoot the three, but for a little guy he will surprise you by taking it right to the hoop.  Cafferty is strong on defense in the paint and at 6-7 can consistently put it in if he gets the ball near the paint and doesn't have to dribble.  Keep him boxed out and you'll negate his offensive power.  Jeff Bernardi and Rob Toste are their main shooting guards...Bernardi is deadly from the corners.  Giorgi Chavleishvili plays a lot of minutes as the big man on the floor.  Fairly athletic, nice touch, but can't go left.  Fast for a big guy, he gets a lot of easy buckets via backdoor cuts when Hamilton spreads the defense.  They also have a fairly deep bench, and Welchons, Peck, and Ngobeni will see a bunch of minutes as they rest the starters or if someone gets into foul trouble.

I hope all this info is helpful as you prepare to (hopefully) host the Continentals.  Hamilton has to get by Plattsburgh (not Cortland) first.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: JeffRookie2 on February 27, 2006, 05:03:37 PM
Thanks, sorry about the Plattsburgh/Cortland mixup.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on February 27, 2006, 06:09:22 PM
I don't quite understand this Hamilton schedule thing.  Granted the Liberty League is way down, but lets take a look at their schedule.  Endicott is in the tournament again, a team they beat.  Messiah is in the tournament, a team they beat.  Utica is in and that was a game where they had an excuse (players out) but a tourny team nontheless.  Brockport was a team picked high in their league and in the ECAC.  Sunyit made it to the final, and they are in the ECAC.  They beat Union three times (ecac team), played a non leaguer against Williams, they seem to do pretty well LOL.  Also, Middlebury was undefeated when they played earlier in the year.  Once again, the league was bad, but I think they played a much tougher schedule then say, St. John Fisher.  Do people even look at these things??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 27, 2006, 06:21:35 PM
Did UR indeed decline an ECAC bid, or is it similar to a case like Hamilton last year where they couldn't play in the ECAC's because they are NESCAC members?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 27, 2006, 11:05:33 PM
Shooters:

I wanted to respond to your questions yesterday which i will paste below:

I would ask you one question as you again lay into Anderson, does any player like change in their program? Playing for one coach and then another in a four year period has to be tough on any program. I applaud the way the team has played this season and last. My question is when does this player v. coach, who likes who and who doesn't end? Is it after this season? the next?

I think your questions are good ones and there is no correct answer.  However, I will give you my answer for what it's worth.  You can at least see where I'm coming from and understand why people feel the way that they do about Anderson.  I know he's got some supporters on here like Thumbsup and people like you who don't have a strong opinion.

Playing for different coaches can be tough, yes, but you must look at the way this whole thing was handled by Hamilton.  Hamilton's administration bungled the whole situation by asking Murphy to move on (for reasons most of us will never fully know) and Hamilton asked the players on the team and the basketball alumni who they wanted to see as candidates.  Hamilton made it clear that this input was important and would be taken seriously.

No one and I repeat no one wanted Anderson as head coach.  They actually specifically said they didnt want him.  So what does the AD do?  He hires Anderson (who at the time had already backed out of the job and returned to Clarkson).  Anderson was not well liked by the players, especially those loyal to Murphy.  Murphy recruited the majority of players on the roster and they came to Hamilton to play for him.  Additionally, Anderson was not and remains to more than a few players to be a phony.  He is seen as disengenous to many players.

Now those that like Anderson will say I'm not being fair, etc. etc.  But I'm just telling you the truth (whether you want to hear it or not).  The guy is not well liked.  Now that doesnt mean the players don't play hard for him.  They do.  They are a team.  And you don't have to like your coach, you just give your all when you step out on the court.

So....................to get back to your questions Shooters...........I think if Anderson remains at Hamilton, he will eventually be accepted.  However, I don't think he'll remain there much longer.  I think he is using the job as a stepping stone to a bigger job.  If he does stay at Hamilton, then once he has more of his own players (that HE ACTUALLY RECRUITED) playing for him, he will get past all of this talk.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 28, 2006, 09:12:48 AM
Bed,

I appreciate the response. I guess we will wait for when he has his own players, pretty much next year from  what i can tell on the roster. I think all those players outside of TK (who for the record is their best player) from that high school that Murphy has connections with are a bust. I think they will all leave the program next year (two pretty much already have). That Giorgi guy that someone said was a great player and should get more minutes looked lost in the games I watched. Their player Wood is ten times the player Giorgi looked like out there. If that is true that would leave really only TK from the Murphy era, correct? If Anderson is using this as a stepping stone for a bigger job then he must be a good enough coach to make that step. I will be interested in seeing how it all shakes out, and i wasn't a big Anderson fan until i got onto this site and found everyone bashing him as his team won. It pushed me to do some research on the guy and your right in the end stick up for him. I guess I just find it puzzling as a Hamilton fan why the negativity for winning? Guess that goes with the job. You know what they said in the marketing world for your product, you should either want people to love your marketing campaign or absolutely hate it but don't be stuck somewhere in the middle. I would say using that rationale Anderson is getting a lot of airplay positive/negative at least his name is being known.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on February 28, 2006, 10:49:27 AM
Shooters-

You must love your tools.  I bet you've got your Hilti belt on right now as you parade around your workshop building an "I Love Tobin" sign.

There was never any negativity from Hamilton fans for winning. 

Hamilton SHOULD BE WINNING with the players Anderson has.  He has the best talent in the East.  Going 15-11 a year ago with that group was disgusting.  You have to go all the way back to the early 70's to find a Hamilton team that lost that many games and that was before Coach Murphy recruited anyone! 

The administration will do anything for Anderson to succeed.  They don't want the Hamilton alumni up in arms shouting "We told you so." Therefore, Anderson will get kids in that might not even be accepted at schools like Rochester and Hobart.   

That said, they have a hell of a lot of talent.  But not enough to beat my beloved Pioneers!!!

By the way, comparing Anderson with Murphy is like comparing a Camry with a Bentley.  Do you think Anderson would have taken SUNYIT from the league cellar to the Championship Game of the SUNYAC in ONE YEAR? If I remember correctly, in one year, Anderson had lost more games in a season than Hamilton had lost since the Nixon administation.  McGovern didn't stand a chance in '72 against Richard Milhous Nixon, and neither do your Conts againt UC baby.

Go Pioneers!

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bamm on February 28, 2006, 11:36:44 AM
Anderson has done a nice job this year, and he had to deal with the mid-season undisclosed problems the Conts had.  From the Nixon references I can tell you have trouble letting things go, but it's been a couple years, let's forget about this and cut Anderson some slack.

Quote from: Ulf_Tornstrom on February 28, 2006, 10:49:27 AM
Therefore, Anderson will get kids in that might not even be accepted at schools like Rochester and Hobart.   

Have you checked the average SAT scores for the kids at Rochester?  If you're implying they're not selective, you might want to retract that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 28, 2006, 12:09:43 PM
The midseason issue w/ Hamilton was in the paper last week and it is not an undisclosed situation. Apparently some booster named Ludwig or Ludwick  paid for deposits for players, those same players that came from that high school. From the article they were cleared to play but didn't like the way things turned out or something so didn't play. I am wondering if there might be a connection between this sad booster Ludwig/Ludwick and Murphy? I mean those are Murphy recruits. The part that concerns me is we are talking D3 basketball and boosters, I've never heard of such a thing. Surely this booster guy has better things to do than worry about a D3 program and putting kids at risk from playing D3 ball!! I could see this unfold in a major D1 program or even a strong D2 but this is just borderline stupid.

Good response Bamm, lets just see how things shake out and like I have said previously Hamilton was predicted to finish third in the confernece this year, the real issue is what happened to Hobart who had everyone back and didn't even make the tournament?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on February 28, 2006, 01:09:00 PM
Shooters:

Being a Utican, I read the same article.  Why are you classifying the incoming freshmen of last year and this year from St. Alban's as Murphy's recruits?  Those kids were brought in under Anderson's watch.  Namely this year's freshman Ramunas Rozgys and last year's freshman Giorgi Chavleishvili.   Both brought in under Anderson, not Murphy.  Both are the players the article refers to.

It has been clear to me and to others reading your posts that you are anti-Murphy.  It's actually funny.  You sound like a former Hamiltonian who either got cut by Murphy, sat on the bench disgruntled or didn't even play at all.  Either way, it's sad to see you are using this posting area as a way to get your anger out on a living legend.  Being a Hamiltonian, you of all people should realize how much Coach Murphy did for your school in his 30+ years there.

Bamm:  Rochester and Hamilton are even as far as academics go, so no, I wasn't implying anything.  Other than a recruit who gets rejected at UofR should get the same rejection letter from Hamilton. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 28, 2006, 03:00:04 PM
Ulf,

I don't post many anti-Murphy comments on this site, only when someone else pops off about Murphy on a site designed for LL posts. My question was whether this connection was something Murphy had established? I agree that these recruits Ramunas and Mandela were under Anderson but I bet Giorgi was coming before Anderson got there and he just accepted. After reading the article I have a feeling that the two players quoted won't be back on the team, the center Giorgi will find an intramural team to play on, and no one from St. Albans will be recruited to Hamilton again. I could be totally off, which I have been before, but like I always say lets let things play out.

I do stand corrected that the two players were Anderson's not Murphy's. I don't know what I was thinking there. I guess it will be up to Anderson as to what happens. The good news is from what I can tell of the stats non of them are going to missed if/when they are gone.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 28, 2006, 03:28:06 PM
Although Murphy is the SUNYIT coach, I think his tenure at Hamilton warrants it acceptable for people to post about him on this board as well, especially when it relates to Hamilton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 28, 2006, 04:11:55 PM
I'm fine with that but for each Murphy comment I am entitled to my responses as well. Thats my point. Like I said earlier he belongs at SUNYIT so I will cheer them on there as well. Last time I looked at a great coaching career it doesn't include getting ran out of your school.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: A Friend on February 28, 2006, 04:26:50 PM
Ok I am so sick of hearing about Murphy and his legacy. Can we focus on things going on in the tournament and the season at hand. Someone needs to applaud Anderson because even if he has ALL this talent its takes someone to put it together just ask Phil Jackson. 22-4 is no joke regardless of talent. They bashed him when he started they bashed him when he was undefeated they bashed him when he won the regular season league title and they bashed him after his team embarassed Union in the final. Shooters, like i've said before, sounds like someone romancing Anderson but instead of him sounding like somoene cut from Hamilton, it sounds like everyone else on this site was cut from Hamilton and are bitter at the success. Hamilton is in the NCAA playing Plattsburg then Amherst. I think they have a chance against one if not both teams.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Yankee on February 28, 2006, 04:50:01 PM
You ever wonder why Murphy got fired? It's really REALLY hard (only a few of you will get that) to get fired from a school where you've been a coach for 30 years, won over 600 games, and had what, 15 all-americans? Just ask Bobby Knight all he had to do was choke a kid, head butt players, and throw chairs across the court.  Maybe, just maybe murph has some skeltons in his closet that even all you former players and hamilton alumni don't know about. Well, some of the alumni most know about them b/c after all you did sponsor the alumni scholarship. If you don't know what the alumni scholarship is then you don't have a clue, and you shouldn't be singing Murph's praises. The person who posted on this site earlier about D3 bosters is getting warm. The rest of you are just a bunch of suckers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on February 28, 2006, 05:46:48 PM
Bed, shooters, Rj, etc., you guys formulate fun to read responses back with information that has factual base to it.  Then we get Ulf whatever, who is on a one year bandwagon at Utica.  I would like to see that game again, Utica and Hamilton.  Hamilton played the JV's against them the first time and was up 15 at half.  Nothing against Utica, great season, but come on, the empire 8 is awful.  Anderson was coach of the year at Clarkson, and did beat the Murph in his own dojo twice, so maybe he had a clue on getting kids to play hard for him against a school that has always gotten any kid they wanted to get in.  I am not saying that the current administration isn't helping coach Anderson, but don't for a minute think that Murphy got anything he wanted, especially when he was the AD.  And don't think for a second, that any of those problems that took place this year wasn't backlash from former Murphy boosters.  Let's call a spade a spade here.  BTW, Ulf, Utica has had a great season, nice job down there, don't tarnish it on here with idiotic comments.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on February 28, 2006, 05:58:52 PM
i believe that ramunas rozgys would have been rookie of the year if these events hadnt gone down. bella wouldnt have stood a chance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on February 28, 2006, 11:58:05 PM
There is so much to write about, but let me get out a few main points:

1) Murphy recruited Giorgi and the kid is a hell of a player.  He's not TK, but who is?  TK is a special player.  Giorgi's size and inside presence made him a very impressive rookie last season.  He's raw and yes he's a bit slow.  He has problems with his footwork.  But instead of Anderson working with him (perhaps he will next season when some of his key starters graduate), he chose to not really try and develop Giorgi.  But I'm telling you that this kid is good and if given the minutes next season....I think he could really develop by mid-season next year.  But he's a Murphy recruit, not Anderson.

2) Nobody (well I am not at least......I can only speak for myself) is saying Anderson is a bad coach.  I don't think he's great by any stretch, but he's average at this point in his career.  He's solid.  However, he rubs many people the wrong way and comes across like a snake oil salesman or car dealer.  He may be a nice guy and some on here may like him.  Hey, we all like and dislike players and coaches.  Nothing wrong with that.  We can agree to disagree.

3) Anderson has done a solid job.  I give him credit for having a great season.  However (i.e. that being said), you must look at (as I've said before) who he beat and who he lost to this season (e.g. Williams, Utica, Hobart) AND ALSO the amazing talent on that Hamilton roster.    Those are factors to analyze how great a coach and how great a season it has been for Hamilton.  I think at this point in his career, Tobin Anderson is a decent coach, but one not respected by his peers in the Liberty League, nor by many on his roster.  Does that mean he's a bad coach?  Again, no.  Just means his personality is not that of Monatana, Griffin, Murphy, or Downs, to name a few.

4) The Hamilton Administration had it out for certain people.  The "powers that be" at the school fired a football coach in 1999 who was one of the most successful football coaches in Hamilton history----a man by the name of Head Football Coach Steve Frank.  They didn't like Frank so they got rid of him despite his success.  They brought in a guy a couple years ago named Pete Alvanos (from Swathmore) and they fired him this year----though his record wasn't good, but his players really liked him and enjoyed playing for him even though the team stunk.
          SIMILARLY, Murphy was and is his own man----just like Frank.  They were looking to get Murphy for a couple years (since 1999 really when they forced him to "resign" or "step down" from his position as Athletic Director).  Eventaully they found someone they thought they could use on him.  It was no secret that Murphy had a lot of alumni support from ex-players and families associated with the Hamilton program.  Murphy used that money to pay for trips for his team and other basketball related expenses.  There is nothing, ZERO, zilch wrong with that.
         But many coaches and the New AD were jealous and envious of Murphy's ability to do things for his program (e.g. trips, tournaments, etc.) without having to do the typical fundraising that other programs like softball or lacrosse might have to do to raise that kind of money.   BUT MURPHY was there for 30 plus years so he built up a network and a lot of support to provide for his program b/c people wanted to give back to him and to the new and future players who played bball for Hamilton.
       Allegedly and no one has ever really confirmed the true story, the new AD and others find that Murphy had used of some  of that money  to help pay for something that he shouldnt have really paid for OR that the money was misallocated OR that the money was kept in an account that it shouldn't have been kept in.....................the result???  Those that were out to get the man who had been his own man for so many years and bucked the establishment finally had their excuse or reason. 
      So Murphy left.  Took a year as an Assistant Head Coach and now is back and took his team to the SUNYAC Tourney where they beat the #1 seed Cortland and lost in the Championship Game and then qualified for the ECAC.  VERY VERY impressive to all who are up on D3 bball.

And there hasn't been an alumni basketball game at Hamilton for the last 2 seasons b/c those loyal to Murphy and to the school, feel that Murphy was treated unfairly and that the school showed no loyalty and no class in doing what it did without providing any public explanation to anyone.  Therefore, despite Coach Anderson's desire to have ex-players come back to campus for an alumni game, none will come back to play AND few, if any, give money.  However, you can be sure they will support their old coach at SUNY IT as he tries to continue to build that program.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 01, 2006, 04:38:07 AM
Bed, you hit the nail squarely on the head. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 01, 2006, 07:23:49 AM
Thank you!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Yankee on March 01, 2006, 11:35:30 AM
Who wouldn't support a coach who paid $16k a year for you to go to school out his slush fund aka alumni scholarship.  Hitler had loyal supporter too, doesn't mean he was doing things the right way.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 01, 2006, 11:41:24 AM
Yankee,

What athletes/players are you alleging received this "alumni" scholarship?

Hamilton's admissions office for about the last 10 years really has been strict about allowing athletes (no matter how good) into the school if their academic numbers aren't there.  Hamilton's SAT scores are way up from where they were 10 years ago and the school has continually climbed on the US News and World Report Rankings.

The idea that anyone (including Coach Murphy or Coach Anderson) has a blank check (so to speak) to get "anyone" into the school has no basis in fact or reality.

And there's no way you could prove your assertion that such a scholarship existed.......can you?  Can you show that some students gained admission that shouldn't have?  Yes, every coach has some influence and can make a case to the admissions office, but if the academic numbers arent there, there's no way the kid is getting in the school.

If you have some actual, concrete, specific information, I would love to hear it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Yankee on March 01, 2006, 01:34:45 PM
Check your e-mail.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on March 01, 2006, 02:18:56 PM
Classic Yankee!!!

I wondered why if Murphy was such a legend did he leave w/o a fight, not a lawsuit nothing! It all makes sense now. If there was such a fund and god knows i have no idea but it sounds like others do, then I can see why the AD went out and got a guy who didn't have Hamilton connections, and hence why he didn't listen to the players or alumni on suggestions. How come nobody has posted anything regarding this until after the season was over. It could have helped me in my postings throughout the year, at least given me some ammo to fire back at people. I bet it was even worse when he was the AD and coach.

Bed I do agree with your earlier post, except for the Giorgi comment, I mean unless he is hurt or something he just looks like someone from the Dog Pound out there playing, and he's getting about the same amount of minutes as someone from the Pound. I will wait it out and see what happens next year, perhaps he'll come back ready to play.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shea on March 01, 2006, 03:46:30 PM
Bed,

I think you make some good points, and I also realize that this isn't a football forum, but there really is no comparison between the firing of Frank and the firing of Murphy.  You said of Frank that "they got rid of him despite his success."  Here are Frank's records for his last three years at the helm:

1997: 2-6
1998: 1-7
1999: 0-8

Steve Frank is a great guy and I like him a lot.  While he has certainly had his successes over the years, to put him in the same league as one of the winningest coaches in D3 Basketball history seems to be a bit of a stretch.  Murphy was let go DURING his (long uninterrupted) run of success, not during a dismal downturn.  Coaches aren't hired to be friendly, even at the D3 level.  Alvanos just didn't have the success for which the school was looking.  Oh, and he was brought in from Swarthmore after Swarthmore CANCELLED their football program.  I think it's clear that the administration did want to see Murphy go and worked at it for a few years; the firing of struggling football coaches can hardly be attributed to the same sort of 'politics of personal destruction'.

I do agree with you that Hamilton's coaches can't just get in anyone they want.  It has been my opinion that until a few years ago, it was actually a bit more difficult for Hamilton's coaches to get their athletes in than it was for some of their colleagues in the NESCAC.  Now the NESCAC has a more formalized way of monitoring athletic admits so the playing field is a bit more consistently level, and I believe Hamilton has to abide by NESCAC guidelines in all sports even though it is now primarily a LL participant.  Does anyone have any info on this?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CCsalive on March 01, 2006, 05:13:56 PM
Many are treading on thin ice...it is best to let certain things rest.

To return to bball. If Hamilton gets past Plattsburgh the Conts are in for a BALLGAME against an Amherst squad who brings Adolphe Coulibaly(Brown transfer who scored 11 as a frosh against Missouri on opening night last year) off the bench as their 8th or 9th man. The Jeffs are L.O.A.D.E.D

Hamilton has five to seven players...there's a difference b/w having talented freshmen and depth. Amherst has depth including three all-conference players in NESCAC which is like the Big East compared to the LL. They also have about six guys 6'6" or bigger.

It will be a great match-up...I've seen Amherst twice this season and I know all of Hamiltons players and history...I witnessed TK register a 7.6 on the richter scale as a freshmen when he switched hands in mid-air and through down a lefty, one-handed, "and-one", thunderdunk.  He is a terrible victim of the coaching change, but if Hamilton stays hot, he might be exchanging a shot at all-american for a Final Four birth. But, the odds are with Amherst.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 01, 2006, 05:44:57 PM
What thin ice are you talking about?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 01, 2006, 06:49:03 PM
This whole Murphy/Anderson thing is incredibly tiresome.  Gee, coaches, administrators, alumni, and players not getting along - who would believe it?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Assists12 on March 01, 2006, 08:07:18 PM
Fella's

I have been reading posts all year.  I am a former player for Anderson when I was at Clarkson.  I was there when he took over the job for Walter Townes and turned the program around.  He is tough and comes across as cocky, but he knows his x's and o's and he recruits his ass off, this I know.  He is always looking for players and works hard.  He walked into a tough situation at Hamilton, but as a coach, if you have the opportunity to move up you take it.

No one should be bashing Murph or Tobin.  Coaching is their life.  They both work hard at it and they both are competitors.  I have a ton of respect for Murph and he has proven himself.  I think Tobin walked into a tough situation last year and proved himself this year, and he proved himself at Clarkson turning that program around.  He is the only coach in Clarkson Men's history to lead his team to post season bids and he did this three times.  This year anytime your team goes 22-4, you are doing something right.  And it is not all Murph's guys, Wood, Valentti and Jones are Tobins as everyone knows.  And if you look at the box scores, Nick Jones has come off the bench atleast six times this year.

Now as I said before Tobin can be cocky and truthfully we had our clashes at times, but ones this for sure, while I was at Clarkson every player that played for him did not always like him but they respected him.

Hopefully this nonsense will come to an end.  I like Murph and Tobin, but let's talk about the league and players, and stop beating this no win situation to death, because obviously former Hamilton players or alum are not gonna like anyone that took the job after murph.  It's like Mike Davis at Indiana, it was a not win situation.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: fpc85 on March 01, 2006, 09:26:32 PM
Who is going to be the coach for Hobart?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 01, 2006, 09:43:36 PM
Ithaca upsets Union tonight, 86-83.

A bit of a surprise, though the Bombers shot very well tonight. They also outrebounded Union by about a 2-1 margin.

Ithaca shot 61 percent from the field, Union 55 percent.

For the Bombers, five players in double figures.
Bellis 17 points, Bostic 15, Scanlon 15, Burton 12 and Andruskiewicz with 10 points.

For Union, Scordato had 28 points and 11 assists, and Caginello had 24 points and finished his career with 2,006 points.

Congrats to IC on the win, now they move on to the ECAC semifinals, and will face Brockport, which upset SUNYIT 91-88 tonight. In other results, Potsdam beat Keuka 81-69 and Oswego edged RIT 84-81.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 01, 2006, 11:40:03 PM
I hear what you guys are saying about not beating things to death.....but these days between the tourney selection and the first games have been slow......there will be a lot to talk about if hamilton wins tomorrow and faces amherst.

a couple responses to a couple comments:

1) CC---mr. conn college............as a former hamiltonian, you should know that some of the innuendo and rumors about murphy that have been posted on this site are exagerrations and factually inaccurate.  I dont know what "thin ice" you are talking about, but I take it personally when someone attacks Murphy with rumor mill gossip.  I have no problem defending Murphy b/c he didnt do anything that rose to the level of being forced out by administrators or athletic directors that WERE forced out or ARE about to be forced out.  I did get an email from Yankee..........and it was informative and laid out some interesting points, which I respect, but again, I think we can agree to disagree on some issues.  However, this alumni scholarship business is not accurate.  What is ACCURATE is that Hamilton (like many other NESCAC schools and perhaps those schools in other conferences) will provide more financial aid to certain athletes so that they can get help in affording to attend a college.  This happened at Hamilton and it happens elsewhere.  NO ONE who works in Admissions will ever admit "on the record" that this happens, but it does.  FACT.

2) Shea:  I'm glad you like Steve Frank.  He's a great guy and was a tremendous coach at Hamilton.  Please check out his coacahing record from 1985-1997.  You will find out that it is something like 54-45-1 or something close to that.  He is a good 10-12 games over .500 playing against tough NESCAC opponents.  However, beginning in 1997, Hamilton brought in a new Director of Admissions (who has long since been booted from the school---I believe about 2 years ago or so) and this guy's philosophy was to raise the SAT scores and the rankings, etc.  He cut back on the types of student athletes that Coach Frank and other coaches could get into the school.  As a result, the football team suffered greatly.  Coach Frank didnt all of a sudden FORGET how to coach from 1997-1999, but his hands were tied.
          It was a CATCH-22 situation.  You can't expect him to win games when he can't get the players into the school to compete with Middlebury, Trinity, Williams, Amherst, etc.  BUT if you don't allow him to get those players in, it's not fair to say he's not winning games (i.e. between 1997-1999).  Williams is a much bigger school than Hamilton and was able to hide lower SAT scoring students (e.g. a kid with 1000 SAT's wouldnt affect your median SAT as much at Williams b/c they have hundreds of more students than are enrolled at Hamilton).
          I was not comparing Frank to Murphy or vice-versa..........what I was comparing was the idea that some of the administrators didnt like them both b/c both marched to the beat of their own drum and wouldn't kiss the asses of those that liked being kissed up to........both Frank and Murphy were loyal guys who told it like it and was............and some didnt appreciate that in the Hamilton Power Structure.    BUT AGAIN, Murphy is obviously a much better coach than Frank----I apologize if it sounded like I was saying that.

3) Shooters:  The reason Murphy didn't sue anyone (he had filed a suit)---so that's wrong...........but he dropped his suit upon getting a nice settlement with the school.  They bought out his contract and/or offered him money and I believe there was a confidentiality agreement signed by the attornies and parties not to discuss the terms of the settlement.   BUT USE YOUR COMMON SENSE----do you think Murphy would just step aside without suing unless he was compensated by the school and not allowed to discuss the circumstances of his "resignation"....

4) Assists:  Anderson had some good players up at Clarkson:  I believe three of them were:  Ashton, Fritz, and Saucier.........if memory serves....I might be butchering the names but those guys were good players.  I think your analysis is right on about both coaches.  As I've said before, Anderson will be fine in time whether he remains at Hamilton or goes elsewhere.  But he is cocky, he comes across that way, and he can be your friend one moment and not your friend the next day---and that's hard for some players.  He's a good coach with a different style than Murphy.  I remember one time when Anderson brought his squad to Clinton, and Murphy was yelling at the refs (I love that!!) and the refs gave Hamilton a call (who knows if the foul called on Clarkson was a good call or not) but Tobin yells to the ref, " That's crap, no way, that's Murph for 30 years.  That call is Murphy being here for 30 years."  And that was classic Murph working the officials and the young guy (Anderson) realizing that one day he'd be the veteran getting the calls on his home floor.   SO.........I think your comments were very accurate and very fair.
Title: Amherst-Hamilton
Post by: bed on March 01, 2006, 11:43:26 PM
Not to get ahead of ourselves, b/c Hamilton hasn't beaten anyone yet, but if they do advance to play Amherst.......I agree with CC that it will be tough for Hamilton.

Athletically, the NESCAC----especially at the top of the league (Amherst, Tufts, etc.) are such a different caliber of team than Hamilton sees night in and night out.  The size and strength of the players on the Amherst roster will be tough for the Continentals to handle.

Hamilton has often struggled in the NCAA tourney against bigger, physical opponents:  Trinity, Williams, Cortland---to name a few of the teams Hamilton has to in the NCAA tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unionalum on March 02, 2006, 12:33:02 AM
Union lost in the first round of ecac's tonight at home 86-83
End of the road for:
Cagianello
Scordato
Bonner
Rayhill
Murphy

Dato- 28 pts, 11 assists, 6 rebound, 4 steals
Cag- 24pts... finished with 2006 for his career

I caught the postgame broadcast... I guess during the game they wanted to stop it to honor Cagianello for 2000, he tried to wave them off and keep on with the game (I think Union was in the midst of a run at this point)   Anyway, he said they could do whatever they wanted postgame, but it was time to play.

I got the impression from the broadcasters that they took a quick photo or two, but a tough way to end a season getting upset at home like that.

Goodluck to you Hamilton guys.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on March 02, 2006, 11:58:49 AM
Assists,

I thought your comments made complete and total sense out of this mess on the postings lately. Way to jump in and level things out!! There were days I couldn't stand my college coach either but you deal with it and move on. Anderson will do good things for Hamilton as will Murphy at SUNYIT. Like you said this is their life.

Bed- You seem to present a lot of knowledge on many items at Hamilton so I will accept you know what you are talking about. I question taking a lump sum of money over a lawsuit however involving your legacy and your program. If someone would as me to to step down after 30 years and if I had done nothing wrong you would be in for the fight of your life. It all just doesn't make sense. BUT the games start tonite and like you said we have had some down time so lets talk bball. Sounds like UNION is losing everyone after this season. Too bad they got upset!! Is the Hamilton game on the radio this evening?

Good luck the the Conts!!

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: John McGraw on March 02, 2006, 12:33:52 PM
NCAASports.com will be broadcasting the game tonight from Hamilton. The pre-game show begins at 6:45 PM. The link to the broadcast can be found at...

http://www.ncaasports.com
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on March 02, 2006, 09:01:53 PM
absolute madness in the Plattsburg v. Hamilton game!!!! I was listening and I about fell over, guys from both teams missing two free throws w/ little time left, Plattsburg w/ 1.6 seconds left going to the line down 1 for two shots. GUY MISSES BOTH SHOTS!!!! Nick Jones w/ a huge tip in late in OT, sounded like a great game. Hamilton better enjoy the victory b/c if they think Plattsburg is tough wait til they meet the Amherst, talk about a buzzsaw.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 02, 2006, 09:25:23 PM
Shooters...

I agree----if you can barely get by Plattsburgh, you are unlikely to get by Amherst.  The game also went to OT which might take more out of hamilton.

I predict Hamilton down by about 9-10 at the half and the game never really being within Hamilton's reach to win.  One of those games where maybe they make a run to bring the game from down 13 or 14 to down 7, but they never really get any closer than that.

Amherst is just too tough and physical.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on March 02, 2006, 09:55:24 PM
Even Pat Coleman said that Amherst really doesn't have much in their way coming out of that region, Amherst is just in a better league and have played better opponents night in night out. I wish Hamilton was pushed more this season as far as opponents so they would be prepared for this match-up. I think a 10-15 pts. game would be about right.  I don't have to tell you who i'm pulling for but even I can't post any prediction of a possible upset. Go Conts!

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CCsalive on March 03, 2006, 01:48:21 PM
So much action in the Liberty League room all week and then a great over-time thriller prompts three posts? Yet another reason why the NESCAC is better.

Hamilton should consider an all-nescac schedule. make it a pride thing..."its tougher for us and we still get it done and win" kind of thing...fly to the games...something to make it attractive to the recruits...NESCAC 06-07 will be even better. Hamilton would struggle to finish in the top five.

All said, I've seen Amherst twice this year...I'd give them a 15-point cushion on Hamilton, BUT the Conts are dangerous, they're in a no lose scenerio...they have some ballers who, after surviving round 1, will be fearless. Welchons, in particular, has nothing to lose and has the cojones to pull off soemthing magical. Ngobene and Jones need to strike fear like they are capable of...I wish I could be there...

...I heard the Margaret Bundy Scott Field House was a-ROCKIN!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on March 03, 2006, 02:33:38 PM
And two of the posts were by me, make it three now!!! I agree that either the LL needs to get some better competition or Hamilton should get a stronger non-conference schedule. I heard the game on the radio and it sounded like there was 3,000 people there last night! I can only imagine what it will be like at Amherst, that place crowds them in.  Hamilton usually goes hot then cold then hot again shooting the ball so since they were cold last night I think it will be draino time tomorrow evening. I WISH I COULD BE THERE ALSO! I think if there was a line on the game it would be right about -15, but like it was said anything can happen, especially w/ that careless full court pressure and chaos that happens afterward.  HOpe it is a close game.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shea on March 03, 2006, 02:40:36 PM
I couldn't catch the Hamilton-Plattsburgh game.  Can someone answer the following questions for me?

1.  Hamilton usually plays an up-tempo game and more often than not scores 80+ per game (and 6 times this year 90+).  Did Hamilton slow this one down, or was that Plattsburgh's doing?

2.  Did Plattsburgh go predominantly for zone or man-to-man?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 03, 2006, 05:35:24 PM
Plattsburgh likes to control the tempo.  They often are in the 60's against good teams.  They are not a great outside shooting team, but have a couple of guys who get streaky.  A score in the 60's is not surprising.

Unless the zebras mandate a steady parade to the charity stripe most of Plattsburgh's wins against quality teams came in games where they held the opponents under 70.

That being said, they also can run and gun with the best as their games vs. New Paltz and SUNYIT demonstrated.  I think good SUNYAC coaches recognize their talent and don't want to get into a track meet.  Gibbs-Smith is very fast, I think he's run a sub-22 200m which is national class track speed, so letting him play wide open is a losing proposition.

Plattsburgh plays a mixture.  They have great athletes, so they can play man-to-man, sometimes they go zone, particularly when Hatch is in the game to protect him.  In the Potsdam loss at Plattsburgh, Potsdam frosh Damon Brown lit them up from the arc, and they quickly reconsidered playing zone.

Miller their 6th man, gives them a lot of flexibility, as he's short, but athletic, so he will often play as an undersized four, and move Gorham to the 5.

Gibbs-Smith has the physical gifts to be a 4 or a 3, so he's a mismatch in any event. 



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 04, 2006, 12:04:28 PM
I think the reason there have been so few posts is that many of us didnt see the game, and a lot of us who tend to post here recently (me included) were happy that Hamilton escaped with the victory.

I'm only going to say this b/c I know perhaps it will spark some posts from Shooters and others.......but I'm being totally serious.............I spoke with people who have been around Hamilton basketball all season (and have seen a lot more of there games than me this season) and they said Hamilton had a big lead (double digits----climbing to 12-15 points at times I think)...........and that the coaching, yes you read correctly, the coaching by Tobin Anderson........i.e. poor coaching by Anderson allowed Plattsburgh to come back in the game on the Continentals.  Apparently, Hamilton........as has been the problem all season long...........could not close out inferior teams..........allowing them to hang around, hang around, and then make it a battle down the stretch.

I know I've knocked the guy a lot------or at least presented the arguments why he's not as good a coach as some on this site make him out to be (old Clarkson loyalists included)............but I'm telling you that the perception is that he is not a big time coach and his team can't close people out.   HOWEVER.....as someone who witnessed the Hamilton blowout of Union in the LL finals...........I give him credit for that big win and not letting Union back in..............BUT...........throughout the season that game appears to be more the exception than the rule when it comes to Hamilton closing people out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 04, 2006, 12:07:59 PM
Hamilton keeps it close tonight if................

1) They get out to a good start and keep the crowd out of the game

2) Welchons and TK combine for at least 40 points.....the higher the # the better.

3) Someone else besides those 2 players can make a contribution offensively (e.g Jones, Peck, Giorgi, Valenti).

4) Hamilton must pick it up defensively by using its press effectively, but switching up its defense throughout the game to try to keep Amherst off balance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 04, 2006, 12:32:53 PM
Failing to finish off weaker teams is not something that is new to Hamilton.  When I was there from '94-'95 to '97-'98, I witnessed plenty of games where they appeared to have the game in hand, only to let their opponent make it a nailbiter at the end.  I don't remember anyone blaming the coach then, though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: mrmike88 on March 04, 2006, 01:25:14 PM
Amherst College campus radio station WAMH will have tonight's Amherst-Hamilton game live on the net.  If you can get by the Amherst bias, tune in at 6:45 for pre-game, 7:00 for the tip, http://wamh.amherst.edu/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 04, 2006, 02:28:04 PM
CMK,

Valid point my friend.  You are correct sir.  I do remember more than a couple games where Coach Murphy's teams failed to close people out.

Let's hope the Continentals show up tonight and give a big effort.  If they come out and try their best and just get beaten by a better team, I'll be satisfied with the team and its coach.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 04, 2006, 09:43:22 PM
Pioneer Pride Baby.  UC heads to the Sweet Sixteen. 

How's your "I Love Tobin" sign coming fellas?   Hamilton had their chance at the fifth "Sweet 16" in school history come up short, way short actually, at Amherst.   

Go Pioneers!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on March 06, 2006, 12:01:12 PM
So LL teams are done for the season. 
Some offseason things to look at:
Can Union find guys to take over for Murphy, Scordato and Caginello?
Will Skidmore and Clarkson get any better?
How does RPI replace Schneider and its starting five?
What will Hamilton look like?
How much better will SLU get?
Who gets the Hobart job?

Of course there are many other questions, but I think all of these have a direct impact on how the league looks next year.  Does anyone think there will be more coaching openings?  Transfers? 
I am sure the Hobart job will get lots of attention, but does anyone think any LL coaches or assistants will get a look?
Anyone else have any thoughts or questions I may have missed?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 06, 2006, 01:31:54 PM
In reference to UCAA's offseason stuff:

While Scordato and Caginello provided the scoring punch Union needed, I think they will be the most easily replaced of the three. Don't get me wrong, I don't think any players will be able to step in and replace these two right off the bat, but Union has had a knack for finding shooters.

As for Murphy, he will be the most difficult to replace. Part of Union's downfall in their last two games of the season — aside from Hamilton and Ithaca both shooting over 60 percent for the game, and Hamilton knocking down 19 3's — was when Murphy gt into foul trouble. They don't seem to have anyone who is as confident a point guard as Murphy.

Skidmore has been down toward the bottom of the league for a couple years now, or at least it seems that way, and I don't expect them to climb into contention next season.

Clarkson seems to be below Vassar these days, and Vassar should be better than Clarkson next season as well. Of course, when you're playing at Clarkson you always have the sixth man — the referees — to contend with.

Hamilton will reload to replace its graduates, the school never seems to get too down, and the trend will continue because Anderson can get kids to his school.

I actually expect St. Lawrence to be one of the top teams, at least the top 2, if not the top team in the league next season. They have some really good freshmen, an ability to control the inside and some shooting ability.

Overall, the LL was a pretty senior-laden league, at least as far as the top teams went, and next season should future a much younger group of talent. It should be interesting to see what happens in the offseason.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on March 06, 2006, 02:43:57 PM
I would agree with most of what was said about the offseason. My concern is that if the LL was senior packed this year and lets all be honest it wasn't much of a conference this year will it be worse than this year? I think SLU will be a tough team next year but they lose their good point guard. I think the rest of the breakdowns on the teams are accurate. Someone mentioned Clarkson, my question is how much longer do they go w/ that coach? A few years back that program was respectable and it seemed to find the cellar quite quickly. Granted this new guy needs a couple of years of recruits but I find it very interesting that a team can go that far down in only a few years. As for Hamilton I think they will miss Peck more than anyone is willing to admit. They already have a good point guard in Rogers for next year along w/ i'm sure some recruits at the guard position. I wonder who will take the lead for next year's team, Jones or TK? Seems like neither one really wants to take their game up a notch consistantly. Both have the talent, no questions there. Should be an interesting offseason. If i have any news i will be sure to post accordingly.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: casey on March 06, 2006, 04:39:30 PM
I usually do not post, but I do follow the posts regularly and I wanted to point out a few things about Skidmore. 

UCAAHoops21 asks "Will Skidmore and Clarkson get any better?" and rjcarter8 states "Skidmore has been down toward the bottom of the league for a couple years now, or at least it seems that way, and I don't expect them to climb into contention next season." 

The 2004 and 2005 seasons were very successful for Skidmore College and as cliché as it may sound, 2006 was a "rebuilding" year that did have positive moments for individual players that will be built upon for next season. 

So I would have to answer "Yes, Skidmore can get better."  And Skidmore has not been down toward the bottom of the league for a couple of years now and stranger things have happened – so Skidmore might just "climb into contention  next season." 

Here are the highlights from a few past seasons:

2004 Season
For the first time ever, the Thoroughbreds swept UCAA champion Hamilton College, besting the Continentals in Clinton, 86-83 in overtime, and again at Skidmore, 78-64. Skidmore also swept Hobart and Vassar.

Dana Martin '05 was chosen UCAA Player of the Week three times and ECAC Upstate Player of the Week twice.

ECAC Upstate New York Tournament advanced to the semifinals.

Overall record ..... ...........16-10 (Conference 7-7)


2005 Season – Sweeps of Clarkson and RPI during the regular season.

Second seed in the Liberty League Tournament (second seed), and advanced to the ECAC Upstate NY semifinals for the second straight year.

Ranked regionally throughout the season.

Dana Martin named to the first team, and player of the year.  Had 3 players named honorable mention.

Dana Martin name to ECAC Division III Upstate First Team

Graduated 7 seniors (5 were starters)

Overall Record ...........16-10 (Conference 9-5)


2006 Season –
A "rebuilding" year – a team that started out the season with 10 new players, including 7 incoming freshman (including two who did not play this season due to injuries pre-season) and only 4 returning players (2 sophomores and 2 seniors) who saw limited playing time from the 2005 season.  Skidmore is a team that will continue to strengthen and definitely build during the off season.  And time will tell what the incoming freshman for the 2006-2007 season will bring. 

Overall Record...........   (4-20)   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 06, 2006, 11:30:34 PM
casey,

what about culkin?  the guy was a legend at skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 06, 2006, 11:35:47 PM
Hamilton will be dominant yet again next year DURING THE REGULAR SEASON.

There is no one that can compete with them---though St. Lawrence will finish second.

Hamilton, as others have pointed out, have the PLAYER OF THE YEAR in TK.

He will be a force next year---probably averaging a double-double based on the minutes he will see and another year in Anderson's system.  With Nick Jones back and a few others who have matured on the roster, I look for another 18-20 wins from Hamilton.

However, that won't mean anything, if they don't play tougher non-conference opposition during the year.  As I've pointed out 20 times on here, they lost to a subpar Utica College team and a subpar Williams College team.

Yes, I know Utica is still in the tourney, but they are a joke.  St. John Fisher is also nothing compared to the NESCAC teams.  Hamilton needs to get back to the days when they played tough, NESCAC games (even if only 4 or so) against maybe a combination of Tufts, Trinity, Amherst, Williams, among others.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CCsalive on March 07, 2006, 08:58:22 AM
Bed-nice post. You write, "sub par" Utica College. Are they? I'd like to hear from someone that saw the Hamilton v. Utica College game. Is Utica College better than Hamilton this year? That program is on the rise and Hamilton is in a vulnerable position when you also consider Coach Murph's presence at Suny-IT...I don't think Tobin would be pleased to lose both of those games next year...what used to be courtesy games for Hamilton.

Ironic that TK is getting lots of love of late. In my opinion, it is long overdue...did I tell you guys about the rim-rocking lefty "And-one" dunk his frosh year? Just kidding. Hamilton could use a big man in the Murphy mold of Schantz, Shmiegal, Finley, Smith, Smith, Nelson, Grimmer, etc!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 07, 2006, 11:59:18 AM
I agree with CC.  It's about time the Pioneers got some respect. 

Utica is not a joke. Ray Bryant is better than anyone on that Hill these days.  With the loss of Welchons and Peck, Hamilton might be the 3rd best team in the area next year. 

CC also has a very good point about the state of affairs in Clinton.  One of the best things Coach Murphy was able to do was develop players.  In fact, I believe he developed the most D3 All-Americans in history.   There might be better athletes on the Hill now, but what has your boy Tobin developed the past two years? 

Hamilton's strength of schedule was not there this season and it showed against Amherst.  In the past, Hamilton would play Amherst in the regular season.  Now they play Tobin's alma mater Wesleyan, who might have been the WORST team in New England this season.  Teams Hamilton used to play every year like Amherst, Rochester, Tufts have been taken off the Conts schedule in place of Medaille (4-21), Wesleyan (6-17), and Washington (13-14).  It might get a few early W's, but it doesn't exactly prepare the team for the post-season. 

Utica might not have the history of Hamilton, but they certainly have the local support these days. 

Go Pioneers!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 07, 2006, 07:52:48 PM
Ulf......

whoa......buddy.........tobin is not my boy......by any stretch.  i dont like him.  read about 3/4 of my posts and you will see that much.

i agree with you.  tobin didnt have a strong strength of schedule this season and u are correct.  it showed against amherst.  that's why i said hamilton needs to stop playing teams like middlebury and wesleyan and take on real teams in the nescac even if they go 1-3 for the season against them.

utica is not a great team though.  gotta disagree with you there.  and if you think anyone on utica is better than TK, you are nuts.  TK is a phenomenal talent who would have been player of the year had Murphy still been coaching at Hamilton.  Fisher isnt anything special either.  Utica might give them a game, but both of those teams suffer from the same problem as hamilton-----weak conference schedule and crappy regular season games against sub-par opposition.

but i agree with ulf----as ive said before---tobin isnt a big time coach.  yes, he might have been above average at clarkson, but you are in the major leagues now coach.  you are at hamilton.  you replaced murphy----now try and win like coach murphy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 07, 2006, 07:56:44 PM
CC,

as you a former hamiltonian..........you know how great murphy was and what he meant to the school, the community, and the people.

it's a shame the school treated him in such a manner.  The funniest thing about Hamilton these days is that most former players would root for SUNY-IT against Hamilton b/c of Murphy.

Murphy was the master of the big guys and the All-Americans.  Teke a look at how many former Murphy players and assistant coaches are head coaches or assistant coaches in college basketball today.  Says a lot about Coach Murphy.

Also, take a look at how successful many of Murphy's former players are in the professional world.  That says even more about Murphy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on March 07, 2006, 10:28:02 PM
Here we go again.  Hamilton, the "big leagues".  How many final fours have they been in??  Rochester, now that is the big leagues.  Hamilton has been an above average team in a below average region for the past 15 years.  Big leagues, what a joke.  And don't even start about this professional world stuff.  Why in the hell would someone pay 35000 g's a year to attend Hamilton and become a basketball coach??  But wait, Murph never got any "favors" there, nothing compared to Tobin.  His kids at Clarkson do become professionals, engineers, business leaders, etc. because they didn't get a full ride to attend a d3 school.  They actually had other goals in their educational life.  As for Utica, once again, nice season, ONE SEASON, in a down region.  Good wins, do it for another 10 years and we'll talk.  Cazenovia made the tournament too a couple of years ago.  Granted, this Utica team is better but come on with this.  BTW, TK is a great player, too bad not every night.  Seen way to many games, even with Murph, when he wasn't a factor, especially on D.  Big leagues, WOW.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 08, 2006, 12:25:08 AM
Thumbs Up:  You haven't seen enough games with statements like these.

As the old man in Utica, I have to say you are way off as far as Hamilton basketball goes.  For years I watched in horror as my Pioneers fell time in and time out to the Continentals.  Even when UC went Division I with the legendary NBA Hall-of-Fame coach/player Larry Costello, much to my dismay, Hamilton still upended them.  How many Hamilton teams were ranked #1 in the country or beat the #1 ranked team in the country handily, only to never get a chance to go to the NCAA tournament due to NESCAC rules and regulations that prevented them from doing so? 

Potsdam, North Park, Rochester, Scranton are just a few of the National Champs that Hamilton beat in those days.  Give Jerry Welsh, Mike Neer,  and Bill Bessoir a call if you need specific statistics! Us old foggies remember.  Coach Murphy's best teams were from 1976-1996, and the list of National Champs that fell by the wayside on that Hill is longer than the road to Upsala.   Hamilton wasn't afraid to play anyone and that's why they got better every year.  Just give a call over to Colgate, who I believe Hamilton beat 9 out of the last 11 times the schools met.  Hamilton was the big time, and still could be.  Heck, now they actually can play for something.  Back in the day, Cedric Oliver simply laced them up for pride.  And outside of Ulf Tornstrom, he might have had the best pull-up jumper this side of Utica!  Still haven't seen a D3 or even D2 player that could go like Oliver did back then. 

And by the way, one year?  From what I can tell, Ray Bryant has another game against Hamilton.  And its in Utica.  Could be a long night.  Then again, its nice to see the rivalry back up and running.   Long live UCPB.   Go Pioneers!

Clarkson is a safety school for kids that go to Utica, so GIVE US A BREAK.  I'd bet my last dollar that there are more professionals out of Utica's basketball program than in Clarkson's entire athletic department!!!  What a joke.

Lastly, I'll leave you with a little D3 trivia. Rochester made it to the 1991 Elite 8, before losing to eventual National Runner-Up F&M by 3.  I was at the Hamilton/Rochester game that year.  Hamilton beat them by like 30 that night.  I say like 30, because with about 4 minutes left I went for a cold Matts at Alteri's with a side of sausage and peppers pizza. 

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bamm on March 08, 2006, 08:19:07 AM
Ulf... nice post.  I enjoyed the history lesson.  Only one complaint --

Quote from: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 08, 2006, 12:25:08 AM
Clarkson is a safety school for kids that go to Utica, so GIVE US A BREAK. 

That couldn't be further from the truth.  Clarkson's engineering programs are well-respected and UC doesn't even offer a single engineering major.  They are different schools. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 08, 2006, 09:47:29 AM
Ulf - One Other Oops

Murphy's lifetime record against Jerry Welsh was 1-4.

In '76-77 when Hamilton was ranked #1 in the country, their two losses were both to Potsdam, the second coming at UC in the ECAC finals. 

Oneonta, a team Potsdam had beaten at Oneonta during the regular season, went to the final four, as there was a three way tie at the top of the SUNYAC, and the committee would only give the league two bids.

Murph's only victory was in '81-82, when Welsh, in probably his greatest coaching job regrouped and took a 17-9 team to a second straight National Championship game.

In Welsh's last game at Potsdam in March '91, He defeated an undefeated #1 ranked Hamilton squad, at Hamilton in the ECAC Championship game.

Hamilton didn't play Potsdam again until '04-05 when the Bears beat the Anderson-coached Conts in Clinton on a three pointer by Chris Turner late in overtime.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: casey on March 08, 2006, 10:06:40 AM
Quote from: bed on March 06, 2006, 11:30:34 PM
casey,

what about culkin?  the guy was a legend at skidmore.

Bed - being a top scorer does not equal being a legend!  He scored a lot of points, and that is about it.  Other players that were on the same teams with him, and have played after him, played as part of team - and achieved team goals.  While playing as a team Skidmore was then able to have a player of the year, winning seasons, and players named as players of the week, and to first/second team numerous times. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 08, 2006, 12:43:29 PM
Bear-

Thanks for the stats.   You've proved my point.  And that  point was Hamilton was never allowed to compete in the NCAA tourney when they had their best teams.  Hamilton tassled with Potsdam only 5 times in over 30 years of Hamilton being among the nations best.  Hamilton was always playing the best teams in the country.   Potsdam had some great runs, but the consistency was based on which renegade rolled through town and was able to attend class long enough to hit the hardwood. 

How's Coach Murphy doing against Potsdam these days now that he can get those types of athletes on his squad?

Imagine Hamilton back in the day if Coach Murphy had guys like Leroy Witherspoon, Maurice Woods, and Derrick Rowland.  Ever wonder how those three ended up in the North Country anyway?  And although they were all great, great players, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside of Potsdam that believes they were better players than Cedric Oliver.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 08, 2006, 01:26:01 PM
Hamilton as an institution made a decision not to play in the NCAA tournament.  That's what drives college sports - Intitutional control.  Murph knew that when he took the job.

IMHO, Murph for the most part deliberately avoided Potsdam.  I remember a scrimmage in I think '71 when Murph first started coaching on the Hill, and he brought a team up including Mark Badger among others.  I was keeping the book, and I think every one of the three halves they played was about 50-30 in favor of Potsdam, who was led at the time by current D-I coach Mike Deane. 

Needless to say, Murphy wasn't rushing to schedule Potsdam for a while.  In '76, with Oliver, he did come up to play in Potsdam's tip off tournament and Potsdam won.  In total, he played Potsdam 5 times, three regular season and two ECAC finals.  Scheduling is a two way street.  Potsdam was 262-44 between 1980 & 1990, and Hamilton played Potsdam exactly once in those 10 years, so who was ducking who.  I think I know.

Remember Murph and Welsh both were high school legends in the North Country before they started coaching in college, and were well known to each other.

I did see Cedric Oliver play, and I also saw two 6'4 guys named Fran Demyan and Tom Hutchinson shut him down not once, but twice.  The second game featured future J-D coach Bob McKenney running four corners at the end for the Bears and completely frustrating the Continentals and the capacity crowd at Utica College.  I think Oliver was a fine college player and would have been an all-american regardless of who he played for. 

Given Rowland's time playing professionally, both here and in Europe, I believe he was at least Oliver's equal.  If you were to ask Phil Jackson or George Karl, they would both have good things to say about Derrick, both as a player and a person.

As for the origins of our players, the answer is simple, recruiting is networking. Rowland (8th man on his HS team) showed up at Potsdam because a former player of Welsh's from Massena HS was his coach and told Jerry about him.  Woods played on the same HS (Brentwood LI) team as Rowland and showed up a year later after a JUCO stint.

Witherspoon was one of a long line of Utica ND players to go to Potsdam.  The parade started in the '60's when Whitesboro native Lou LaGrand was Potsdam's head coach and continues to the present.  Russ Finnegan, Bill Merna, Charley Ferguson, Eddie Jachim,  Spoon, Steve Babiarz . . . to Mike Brooks who was a key reserve on last year's elite 8 squad. 

As for Murph's current success, Potsdam and SUNYIT split this year.  SUNYIT made 41 trips to the free throw line in a 83-71 win at Potsdam, Potsdam a week later won 85-52 (that's 33 points for the libbies) at SUNYIT, and then the Bears lost a tough 97-96 OT decision in the SUNYAC first round at Utica. 

Doesn't sound like domination to me.

As for Renegades, who do you refer to?

Bill Merna (Over 500 HS wins, currently undefeated & in the state tourney)
Mike Deane (Coach at Siena, Marquette, Lamar, Wagner)
Pat Donnelly (Highly successful coach at Bishop Ludden)
Ed Jachim (D-III All American, national champion)
Derrick Rowland (D-III All-American, national champion)
Mo Woods (D-III All-american, National Champion)
Leroy Witherspoon, (Only 2X D-III Player of the Year, National Champion)
Tim Welsh (D-I coach at Iona & Providence)
Pony Bullock, (D-III All American, National Champion)
Brendan Mitchell, (D-III Player of the Year, National Champion)
Steve Babiarz (D-III All American, National Champion, all-time leading scorer)
Christian Turner (NCAA Post-Graduate Scholarship Winner, now in med school)
Edane Barton (ESPN Academic All-America, candidate for D-III All-American)

If these folks are renegades, sign me up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bamm on March 08, 2006, 01:42:00 PM
Karma point for thebear. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on March 08, 2006, 02:57:46 PM
Hey Alf, I mean Ulf, because obviously planet Utica is a place none of us has ever been to.  If you would have read my post, I did mention the past 15 years, which was an approximate time as to when Hamilton has been allowed to play in the NCAA.  Before that it is all you, because I have no need or desire to know the history of d3hoops in NY around 1950.  Where as I do agree with some of your points, I cannot let this safety school thing go.  This may have been the most idiotic line I have heard on here yet.  Do we even need to compare the academic integrity of these two schools.  I did not attend Clarkson, but have many friends and colleagues who have, and lets just say I don't here UTICA as another option when they were discussing the other schools they were applying to.  R.P.I, University of Rochester, Cornell, etc., but I really can't remember hearing about Utica college.  I really don't want to bash UC here, there are many good people down there, but GET REAL.  BTW, Clarkson has a 26-20 record lifetime against UC in mens hoops, if you want to discuss history here.  WHOOPS!!!!!! Even the womens sports at Clarkson have dominated UC, not bad for a safety school. But I digress.  As for the professionals coming out of your hoops program versus Clarkson's whole athletic department WOWOWOWOWOW.  Wait, those guys playing noon hoops on the outside courts for 5 bucks a game are professionals.  Clarkson on the other hand has no one in the professional world except about 20 nhl players, two olympians, a general manager (dave taylor) a player personel guy (Bill O'Flaherty) and that is just the d1 program.  I would love to compare starting salaries for Clarkson and Utica grads.  Best of luck though two those great Utica players in the ABA with Clarkson grad Steve Vega.  Also, I wish best of luck to the lineman playing for the Watertown Red and Black semi-pro football league.  More pros for UTICA.  Wait a minute, you may have an edge in pro poker players, considering turning stone is right down the road.  What are you, the Dean of student life there??  If you are then let's compare admissions standards between the two schools.  SAFETY SCHOOL????  Maybe you and Mork from Ork ought to get together and have tea, maybe ride in his egg.  You saw Mork and Mindy didn't you, with your knowledge of history you were around for that.  Don't even bring Potsdam st. into this, Potsdam is on much different plateau from UC.  I refuse to include a program with their history in this BS.  This is it for me, I thought this was a forum for the learned, your just a fan backing a team who has had a heck of a season, hope they get Fisher.  Safety school, great engineering school you have down there. CLUELESS!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Yankee on March 08, 2006, 07:52:26 PM
Nice one thumbs up, and let's not forget about Tim Barcomb who gave up minor league baseball contracts so he could be a brain surgeon.

How about the irony in someone comparing Murp to Welsh, two of the biggest cheaters in the histroy of upstate new york basketball history.(Thumbs up I know your not going to like that). Both of these guys were cheating their pants off way before coach fisher had even thought of fab five.  Actually I think coach welsh invented cheating, just so you idiots on this page know coach welsh used to give out cars like they were candy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on March 08, 2006, 08:00:10 PM
No argument here Yankee, right on with your assessment.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 08, 2006, 11:46:20 PM
Yankee sounds bitter.  Probably couldn't hold Welsh's jock anyway.

Sorry about insulting Clarkson by comparing it to UC.  After all, Utica only offers a Syracuse University degree.  Clarkson is not even close to RPI, U of R or Cornell, so I'm not sure what kind of glue your friends were sniffing if they actually chose to head North over Ithaca, Troy or Rocha.

How sad is your little Liberty League anyway these days fellas.  Your board is being dominated by E8 and SUNYAC banter:)  Must have had a helluva year.




Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: retired12 on March 09, 2006, 12:54:22 AM
Lets not overlook Yankee's comment on Welsh giving away cars.  I would assume you to be an intelligent person, but my assumptions have been wrong before....please explain yourself. (I prefer creditable evidence)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on March 09, 2006, 01:10:20 AM
c,mon Ulf.  I didn't see too many in here bash the empire 8 last year when there one team got beat by a hundred on their own floor.  And you are right about Clarkson in comparison to R.P.I and others.  Clarkson ranks higher than the others on many of their engineering and business programs.  Alright, no more from me, this is pitiful.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 09, 2006, 09:01:53 AM
Quote from: thumbsup on March 08, 2006, 02:57:46 PM
Hey Alf, I mean Ulf, because obviously planet Utica is a place none of us has ever been to.  If you would have read my post, I did mention the past 15 years, which was an approximate time as to when Hamilton has been allowed to play in the NCAA.  Before that it is all you, because I have no need or desire to know the history of d3hoops in NY around 1950.  Where as I do agree with some of your points, I cannot let this safety school thing go.  This may have been the most idiotic line I have heard on here yet.  Do we even need to compare the academic integrity of these two schools.  I did not attend Clarkson, but have many friends and colleagues who have, and lets just say I don't here UTICA as another option when they were discussing the other schools they were applying to.  R.P.I, University of Rochester, Cornell, etc., but I really can't remember hearing about Utica college.  I really don't want to bash UC here, there are many good people down there, but GET REAL.  BTW, Clarkson has a 26-20 record lifetime against UC in mens hoops, if you want to discuss history here.  WHOOPS!!!!!! Even the womens sports at Clarkson have dominated UC, not bad for a safety school. But I digress.  As for the professionals coming out of your hoops program versus Clarkson's whole athletic department WOWOWOWOWOW.  Wait, those guys playing noon hoops on the outside courts for 5 bucks a game are professionals.  Clarkson on the other hand has no one in the professional world except about 20 nhl players, two olympians, a general manager (dave taylor) a player personel guy (Bill O'Flaherty) and that is just the d1 program.  I would love to compare starting salaries for Clarkson and Utica grads.  Best of luck though two those great Utica players in the ABA with Clarkson grad Steve Vega.  Also, I wish best of luck to the lineman playing for the Watertown Red and Black semi-pro football league.  More pros for UTICA.  Wait a minute, you may have an edge in pro poker players, considering turning stone is right down the road.  What are you, the Dean of student life there??  If you are then let's compare admissions standards between the two schools.  SAFETY SCHOOL????  Maybe you and Mork from Ork ought to get together and have tea, maybe ride in his egg.  You saw Mork and Mindy didn't you, with your knowledge of history you were around for that.  Don't even bring Potsdam st. into this, Potsdam is on much different plateau from UC.  I refuse to include a program with their history in this BS.  This is it for me, I thought this was a forum for the learned, your just a fan backing a team who has had a heck of a season, hope they get Fisher.  Safety school, great engineering school you have down there. CLUELESS!!!

hey there, thumbsdown... i don't know what Ulf said to prompt this rambling response... but both schools are good in  their own ways... Clarkson has a great engineering program, D1 hockey, etc. Utica has the Syracuse affliation, a great journalism program (I'm biased  ::) ), and a nice campus.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gobombers15 on March 09, 2006, 11:35:35 AM
Quote from: Ulf_Tornstrom on March 08, 2006, 11:46:20 PM

Sorry about insulting Clarkson by comparing it to UC.  After all, Utica only offers a Syracuse University degree.  Clarkson is not even close to RPI, U of R or Cornell, so I'm not sure what kind of glue your friends were sniffing if they actually chose to head North over Ithaca, Troy or Rocha.

How sad is your little Liberty League anyway these days fellas.  Your board is being dominated by E8 and SUNYAC banter:)  Must have had a helluva year.


Let's think about this for a second. First, I don't think those schools are head and shoulders above Clarkson. Clarkson is a very good school and most who get degrees from there are very intelligent people who will go on to be quite successful. Like someone said, the school has a great business program and a great engineering program.

It's not as good as Cornell, RPI, or UofRochester? So what. You just mentioned an Ivy League school, a school that has one of the best engineering programs in the nation, and a school that is probably one of the top 20 non-Ivy League schools in the country. It's like saying a good steak is not as good as a cut of filet? You're right, but both are very good. Clarkson is nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be. If I told you I went to Tulane would you call me a moron for not going to Duke or Vanderbilt (the only southern schools better than TU)? I think the two cases are fairly analogous.

Getting an SU degree is great, especially in communications, but it's by no means the end-all of degrees. I think you're pretty off-base on this one, Ulf.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: superman57 on March 09, 2006, 01:41:26 PM
Ulf are you insane Clarkson is as good as RPI and a step below Cornell,  and yes Syracuse is a great degree, but when youo get into Utica College yes it's a Syracuse degree but still a step below probably even Fisher,  not that Fisher is the greates school for academics, because it's not,
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on March 09, 2006, 04:43:33 PM
What is going on here? Complete madness. I don't think anyone here wants to hear about programs in the 70s. I agree with several points posted by several people but do we all not have something better to do than talk about Murphy and what school is better than another?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 09, 2006, 09:15:49 PM
Shooters,

Let's talk about how both Hamilton and SUNY-IT will both be powerhouses next season.

I think SUNY-IT competes for the SUNYAC title, while Hamilton will again win the Liberty League title.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 14, 2006, 05:25:41 PM
Now that the aftermath of the LL falling down in the postseason has passed by a couple weeks, anyone have any speculation on why the league had such a poor showing this year?

I know many will say it was a down year, but it was a pretty tight league this season. I'm just surprised at Union's first round exit, and Hamilton's performance in the NCAA's. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 14, 2006, 10:11:28 PM
RJ,

Though it's not a perfect comparison by any stretch.........and people can agree or disagree with me........but I believe the situation with the Librerty League is analogous to the Division I  majors vs. mid-majors and the whole tourny selection...........Let me explain.......

There's a debate in D1 about the at-large bids and the mid-majors and smaller conferences VS. the bigger conferences (e.g. Big 12, Big East, ACC, SEC, etc.) and how many teams should get in.............Dick Vitale, Billy Packer, etc. etc. make the argument that the BEST teams should get those at-large bids and not the mid-majors b/c if you ask anyone who knows anything about college basketball who would win in a 1 game or best of 10 games-------Cincinatti or Hofstra or George Mason-----------everyone knows Cincy would dominate them.  Much like Louisville would too---and they werent even considered for an at large bid.

Long story short...........back to D3...............Hamilton is the best of a weak conference (a mid major, if you will).....whereas Amherst and the top half of the NESCAC are big time teams who are so far superior to the Liberty League or even conferences with St. John Fisher, etc.

So the Liberty League is down and even the good teams like Hamilton and Union can't compete with the big time teams (who are like Power conferences in Division 1).

I think you can go beyond the Liberty League and say you would be hard pressed to find many teams in New York State that are as good as the top teams in New England. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 16, 2006, 12:50:22 PM
Bed,

Good comparison. I agree with you that New England schools always seem to dominate the East region. I know Hamilton is a perennial power in NYS, as Fisher also has become, but they never seem to be able to get over the hump.

I certainly think the LL was down this season, and no team deserved an at large bid from that league. I think my biggest surprise was Union going down in the opener of the ECAC tourney, especially since they were a 2 seed. I guess their inability to defend shots played a big role in their final two losses, letting their two opponents - Hamilton and Ithaca - shoot better than 60 percent from the field. And Hamilton also canned 19-of-31 3-point attempts. I just thought Union was a better team, but Ithaca showed it had a little something in the ECAC tourney didn't they?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bed on March 18, 2006, 09:54:31 AM
Just to throw in yet another Division I comparison, the ECAC is a bit like the NIT tourney, and I think often when teams don't make the NCAA (e.g. Cincinatti or Hofstra, etc.) they take the NIT birth.  Now, some teams may turn it down and not go, which I think some in D3 do also with respect to the ECAC.

But my point is that sometime those D1 bubble teams go to the NIT or a team like Union who really had a good shot to win its conference tourney (LL title) and get an automatic birth, go to ECAC---------------and whether it's the NIT or ECAC, these teams arent fully committed to playing 100% whether consciously or unconciously, while their opponents (e.g. Ithaca) are really keen on winning the ECAC or playing extremely hard.   I think you can also see that from
SUNY-IT (Murphy's team) who also got an ECAC bid, and lost early also.

Union was a solid team this year in the LL, but I think Hamilton was just better.  I think went they went to the ECAC's, they probably just got beaten by a hungrier Ithaca team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gobombers15 on March 18, 2006, 03:30:58 PM
Bed, I don't know how you can say Ithaca was a "hungrier" team. That was a squad that looked extremely lackluster against Utica in the E8 semis. So much so, that many fans, including myself, thought the team had just mailed it in and would make a quick exit from the ECAC's. Union had more seniors than Ithaca and probably should have been the "hungrier" team of the two. It's not like Union was snubbed by the committee. Sure, they had a shot to make the tourney if they beat Hamilton, but they were crushed in that game. They didn't exactly lose that one in heartbreaking fashion. Maybe Union just wasn't as good as they should have been this year. No more excuses.

Union got beat by a team whose coach finally figured out a good rotation (better late than never, I suppose) and was finally hitting their shots. You can't tell me Union didn't want that game. They made a huge push in the 2nd half and even took the lead on Ithaca. I'm sure they weren't sitting there thinking "Yeah, even though we're ahead with a few minutes left, I'd really just prefer this be the last game of my competitive basketball life--I think I'm just going to stop caring." Get serious. Union just couldn't stop Bellis down the stretch and, believe me, the Dutchmen aren't the only team that had trouble with him, as evidenced by his 2nd team all-region status.

Any athlete worth his or her salt wants to compete and wants to win. When I'm playing intramural ultimate frisbee I try just as hard as I did when I was playing in Sectional Finals during my high school days. It's possible they may have just overlooked Ithaca, I don't know. Just don't take the easy way out and say "they didn't care that much about ECAC's," because that's garbage.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 21, 2006, 10:06:55 PM
GB15,

I also do not think Union mailed it in. I think Ithaca just outplayed them in that game. It's possible Union may have looked past them a bit, but Scordato and Caginello both hit for over 20 points, and with their senior starters I don't think any of them wanted to go out like that.

I know how to give credit when credit is due -- IC simply played better than Union in the ECACs. Congrats to the Bombers, by the way, for taking the whole thing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on March 28, 2006, 12:42:42 PM
Anybody have any news on the hobart coaching opening?  Has anyone been named coach yet?  I have been out of the loop for a month and am trying to catch up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on April 29, 2006, 01:19:11 PM
They named the head coach for Hobart and it wasn't the guy from st. john fisher, it was Izzi Metz, an assistant at Cornell and grad of Hobart. I want those people on here and i doubt i'll get a response til fall but those that doubt coach Anderson and his ability to coach to watch the class he brings in this year. Rumor has it he has like three point guards coming that ARE legit, including a D2 transfer. Put any one of them w/ Rogers next year and sit back and watch. I can hardly wait for the season to start!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: juice31skid on June 05, 2006, 03:26:36 PM
what's going on with skidmore's recruiting this year....ANYTHING?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 05, 2006, 03:52:46 PM
We don't usually hear much from Skidmore. Hopefully you can stick around and be our news pipeline this season.

Welcome to the board.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: juice31skid on June 05, 2006, 04:34:35 PM
I'm less tapped in to it in recent years...I graduated in 2000 although I can say that they could recruit a team of apes and have a better season than last year
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Rachel Ray on June 05, 2006, 05:14:58 PM
They got a really good bigman from Holy Name in Worcester.  He will contribute immediately, especially defensively and on the boards.  I forget his first name but his last name is Landford.  He is an excellent shot blocker and will be among the Liberty League leaders as a freshman.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on August 09, 2006, 07:41:39 PM
i saw today that the interm coach at hobart last season, Joe Wojtylko is now an assistant at hamilton...also have noticed that Union and Vassar were looking for new assistants and that Hobart has a brand new staff...anyone know who is in those spots? 
What are everyone's thoughts about how the LL will look this year?
Hamilton loses Welchons, Valenti and Peck, but I hear they have a nice class coming
RPI lost just about everyone that played any real minutes for them, and Union lost some studs...
SLU seems to be in a good spot.
So what do people think?  any news on incoming classes?  coaching changes? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on August 12, 2006, 11:44:32 AM
Your top two teams this year will be SLU and Hamilton without question. Union lost their top players and like you said RPI pretty much is busing in a completely new team. I think with SLU's team of young players will be a tough act to follow and it will be a two horse race b/c Hamilton returns Jones and TK. I've heard that Hamilton has 2 or 3 guards that were recruited that can play right away. They will miss Welcons and his senior leadership. Nice pick up of the coach from Hobart as an assistant for Hamilton. Should be an interesting year. I hope Hobart and Union can return to their teams of the past and become competitive again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thumbsup on September 04, 2006, 09:30:08 PM
Predictions for 06-07

1. Hamilton
2. St. Lawrence
3. Hobart
4. Clarkson
5. Vassar
6. Union
7. R.P.I.
8. Skidmore

Any other predictions??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 07, 2006, 02:26:55 AM
Why should anyone else predict if you got cold feet and deleted yourself from the system?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on September 12, 2006, 08:20:06 AM
Whats up w/ coach Murphy retiring? I figured i would see plenty of posts in here regarding his departure from SUNY IT. What an odd time for a resignation, I am wondering if he didn't get the recruits he thought he might get and shut it down. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on September 18, 2006, 04:17:47 PM
I believe Coach Murphy took another job, maybe as a D-I assistant.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: haterinthehouse on September 19, 2006, 09:21:48 AM
I do believe you are right!  Please read

http://www.wktv.com/news/sports/local/3630381.html

although it doesn't say where Coach Murph moved to
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: lileyes on September 19, 2006, 04:03:46 PM
Northeastern University in Boston
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on September 20, 2006, 11:30:40 AM
I had a question about Karma points. I was wondering how I have a -1. I understand you have to be at a certain level to give them, but what are the criteria for getting them?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on September 20, 2006, 11:33:27 AM
I checked out the Northeastern Web site and found an article about Murphy's hiring.

Here is the link: www.gonu.com/mbasketball/news/murphy091806.htm

Contrary to the TV Web site story, Murphy will not be a head coach, he is going to be an assistant for one of his former players, Bill Coen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: retired12 on October 16, 2006, 08:34:09 PM
Coach Greg Snyder leaves Potsdam State to assist Anderson at Hamilton....Traitor? Yes....but great move for Snyder and Hamilton...I think he will be a great addition to his staff and maybe Hamilton will actually use its atheletes and get out and guard someone
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on October 22, 2006, 01:21:30 PM
Any of you guys excited for the season to start next month. I hope Hamilton makes it back to the Tournament this year. I heard they have about 3-4 new gaurds in their recruiting class this year and one of them might be able to start right off the bat. Also, in other news Rasmunas Rozgys who got caught up in the Hamilton recruiting scandal will be back. I think the loss of Welchons/Valenti/Peck won't be as noticable with the new returners and recruits. Well not as bad as the loss of Smith and Coach Murphy a couple years ago.

Anyone have any predictions for the season?

- C
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on October 27, 2006, 09:39:45 AM
I predict Hamilton to come out of the Liberty League.  They still have a good core and some new good guys coming in.  Talent wise, they're usually the best, and i believe the league will still be weak along with the other upstate NY conf. (E8 & SUNYAC).  Hamilton will likely get out of the liberty league but still does not have the size to compete with the big boys.  Predictions for the East Region:  NYU, UoR, Fisher, Hamilton, and then whatever Suny team brings in good transfers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on October 27, 2006, 02:21:19 PM
I agree, I think Hamilton not only has some good recruits coming in it seems like the program is also attracting good asst. coaches as well. I predict a big year from the conts. and big things from TK and Jones. I've heard that one of their recruits is the real deal and can play right away.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on October 30, 2006, 12:38:20 PM
I hear Union and RPI have some good young players and Hamilton I am sure has a new group of players.  SLU returns a lot of guys too...Anyone hear anything about how practices are going?  Any names for the incoming freshmen that are supposed to be good from some teams? 

It's almost November...games soon
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Raptormania! on November 02, 2006, 01:34:02 PM
What does anyone hear about Vassar this year?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on November 04, 2006, 08:41:41 PM
the ucaa as like to call it will run through slu and hamilton again. slu has a great cast of players back from last year's team including a couple of all league players. hamilton will adjust to a couple of the losses which include all world welchons. i think slu might ruin hamilton's recent run. any reports on scrimmages or games?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on November 06, 2006, 12:12:16 AM
SLU has no chance of bringing the Hamilton reign down. Blasphemous!!

- C
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on November 09, 2006, 12:52:38 AM
Vassar only lost one senior.  They could be a sleeper this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on November 11, 2006, 12:29:46 PM
looking at the d3hoops.com preseason top 25 the only league team to get votes was Hamilton with 8...want to know your thoughts on if that number is too low or too high?  as for me i think it is about right...they did well last year, but lost 3 key conributors and are unproven without that senior leadership...i think jones, tk, and probably harlee wood, along with giorgi will be one of the toughest front lines in the east
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on November 11, 2006, 03:18:14 PM
I have heard that the three guards Hamilton brought in will be instant players, and I think you will see increased numbers from TK and Jones because they will get to see the ball more w/o welchons lauching it every time down the court. I don't know much about Wood but if memory serves me correct he is a little undersized. I look for a big year from Hamilton and I think 8 votes is about right for the time being.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on November 13, 2006, 01:12:27 PM
Are you guys getting amped/pumped for the games this Friday?

If anyone goes to the Hamilton-Hartwick game. I'll be the annoying undergrad heckling the whole game.

- C
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on November 16, 2006, 12:18:35 AM
None of the hamilton freshman are instant players. Trust me, that is a huge overstatment. they are all undersized  hamilton has about 10 players that could start on any other team in the league. tobin will find a way to mess it up with his hockey style substitutions. with this in mind, if tk doesnt get all-american this year due to lack of playing time or motivation which has happened in the past, his college career will be summed up as a huge waste of talent.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot on November 16, 2006, 12:28:19 AM
if hamilton loses to utica again this year, tobin should resign
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 16, 2006, 12:49:30 AM
Woot, no real shame in losing to a Sweet 16 team with an All-Region and potential All-American, is there?  Should be a good battle on the 28th.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on November 16, 2006, 09:29:17 AM
also, hamilton played utica last year without tk and giorgi...they got killed inside by bryant and the boys and having those 2 down there would have definitely changed the landscape of the game both on the offensive and defensive ends of the court
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 16, 2006, 10:32:11 PM
Quote from: d3bballfollower on November 16, 2006, 09:29:17 AM
also, hamilton played utica last year without tk and giorgi...they got killed inside by bryant and the boys and having those 2 down there would have definitely changed the landscape of the game both on the offensive and defensive ends of the court

It would have changed the game yes, but not necessarily for the better. Hamilton was forced to go smaller, and if it wasn't for the insane amount of 3's they hit, wouldn't have had a chance.

UC went into the tournament without a center after losing the only one on the roster in the final two weeks of the season, and blew out a WPI team that had a 6'10 and 6'9 guy on their home court.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on November 16, 2006, 10:51:14 PM
ucgrad- very true, i agree with the fact that having bigger guys doesn't necessarily mean that is better, however, having a guy with tk's skill would have been better...hamilton did hit a lot of 3's, looking at the box score it was 12 to be exact, however, if you add tk in there that would've taken a little pressure off of the guards and defensively there would've been another guy to guard bryant and lucas inside...taking nothing away from utica however because they were a very good team and they might still have won the game...it would've been interesting to see the game with tk and giorgi playing...the game on the 28th should be exciting...although it has lost the local flavor without welchons and cichon
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 16, 2006, 10:56:23 PM
Quote from: d3bballfollower on November 16, 2006, 10:51:14 PM
ucgrad- very true, i agree with the fact that having bigger guys doesn't necessarily mean that is better, however, having a guy with tk's skill would have been better...hamilton did hit a lot of 3's, looking at the box score it was 12 to be exact, however, if you add tk in there that would've taken a little pressure off of the guards and defensively there would've been another guy to guard bryant and lucas inside...taking nothing away from utica however because they were a very good team and they might still have won the game...it would've been interesting to see the game with tk and giorgi playing...the game on the 28th should be exciting...although it has lost the local flavor without welchons and cichon


Those guys will definately be missed. However I don't think that matchup will ever lose it's intrigue. Its been heated for decades. Cichon is an assistant at UC now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on November 17, 2006, 03:12:06 AM
first of all i didn't know you had to be a certain size to be considered instant players. Could I get a certified height level so i know when i can use the word "instant players." I don't know who will be starting for the conts but if it happens to be a freshman for a team that won the league last year I would tend to label the person as an instant player. I do agree that TK has to be an impact player this year, all american might be a stretch, but definitely has to put up some numbers. I will check tomorrow and see if I see a freshman starting and if so i think I will have made my point. I could be totally off base in which I will admit to after tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on November 17, 2006, 05:47:03 PM
im not saying that a freshman wont start because one will tonight, but im just saying that  none of them are instant players. no natural talent.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on November 17, 2006, 10:35:32 PM
Hamilton looked rusty in the first half of the game tonight. Hartwick is a non-team that has only won single digit games for the past several years. They had trouble scoring against them.

As much as I want them to be the Hamilton team from last year, they aren't. I think they greatly miss Phil's forced turnovers and Welchons' leadership.

But they pulled the game out and hopefully they can continue to win.

- C
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCgrad45 on November 17, 2006, 11:37:49 PM
Quote from: alucardz on November 17, 2006, 10:35:32 PM
Hamilton looked rusty in the first half of the game tonight. Hartwick is a non-team that has only won single digit games for the past several years. They had trouble scoring against them.

As much as I want them to be the Hamilton team from last year, they aren't. I think they greatly miss Phil's forced turnovers and Welchons' leadership.

But they pulled the game out and hopefully they can continue to win.

- C

In fairness, I expect Hartwick to be the most improved team in the Empire 8 this season. They have some decent players and they always play hard.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on November 18, 2006, 12:14:34 AM
as far as freshman playing for hamilton...1 in the starting lineup and 2 off the bench...also worth mentioning...i didn't see the game, but from the looks of it tk was in all-american form...24 pts and 14 boards while playing 38 minutes...as people have said all along...if tk gets the playing time and the opportunity, he is one of the better forwards in the east, and definitely could be considered among the nation's best
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on November 19, 2006, 09:54:16 AM
Hamilton looking good and Ray Ray coming off the bench for 20. Good start at 2-0.

Unfortunately, I wasn't at the game but it's always good to see players coming off the bench and putting up some points.

Can't wait for that Utica game. I don't know how competitive it's going to be with Utica trouncing Paul Smith 104-37 on Friday. Hopefully, it will turn out to be a good game.

Until then, Happy Turkey Week. See you after the break!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on November 21, 2006, 01:27:25 PM
Anyone have any Union College hoops news? What's the team look like this year? I know they lost a bunch of scoring and their point guard.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on November 24, 2006, 03:51:08 PM
Hobart's new coach and 2006 team will try for their first victory of the season on Tuesday. Will 3rd time be the charm for Izzi Metz and the Statesmen, after losing the first two games by a total of 7 points, with one game being OT? It would be great to get his first win at his first home game at Bristol Gym.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on November 26, 2006, 11:16:56 PM
Woot you must be smokin something, i wouldnt even consider hamilton the favorite against Utica.  For one they play no Defense, for two, Utica plays much more physical for a blowout.  Hamilton only beat hartwick by 11 points and norwhich by a few.  I guarantee Utica would be both of those teams by more points then that.  However, you cant judge a match up on past games and pt differentials.  Either way, Neither team is going to crush the other, mark my words.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on November 28, 2006, 08:52:37 PM
Hamilton over Utica 68-64
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on November 28, 2006, 09:39:30 PM
Hamilton beats Utica 68-64.

Harlee Wood has a key uncontested drive to put Hamilton up by 4 but then fouls Ray Bryant taking a 3 with 24 seconds left.

TK played a great second half, hitting a 3 to put Hamilton within 1.

The first half Hamilton played like garbage. Utica likes to foul while going for offensive rebounds but they play great defense.

Doug Herring is a great player but he's a little cocky. He came to the sidelines during warm ups to talk to his friends and he enjoys dancing to the home team's warm up music. Great Player.

Overall, it was nice to see Hamilton win. TK played a great game. Hamilton's freshman point guards need to learn to not take ridiculous threes (Dave Alston).

GREAT GAME!

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on November 28, 2006, 11:51:15 PM
Looks like TK is putting up the big numbers early this year! 20 pts in the second half, i take back an earlier comment about him not being all-american material. He has my vote as of right now! Good win for the conts !
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: radiomike on November 30, 2006, 12:10:42 PM
Congrats to Izzy Metz on his first career win last night at Bristol Gym!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on November 30, 2006, 11:32:45 PM
After Hamilton's win over Utica do you expect them to appear in the top 25?


Thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 01, 2006, 07:56:58 AM
I think Hamilton will at least have to get to break undefeated and start strong in league play before they might break into the top 25.  For one thing, they have to at least finally break through and beat a mediocre Williams team, who they never play well against.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 01, 2006, 09:19:07 AM
Quote from: met_fan on December 01, 2006, 07:56:58 AM
I think Hamilton will at least have to get to break undefeated and start strong in league play before they might break into the top 25.  For one thing, they have to at least finally break through and beat a mediocre Williams team, who they never play well against.

I think it is safe to say the only team in the East Region that will be ranked in the top 25 at the break will be U of R.

U of R, Utica, Hamilton, Fisher, and Cortland are the most talented teams in the region IMO.

BTW, great name, Let's go Mets!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on December 01, 2006, 09:29:43 AM
Fisher and Cortland, two of the most talented teams in the East Region....In the famous words of Lee Corso, "Not so fast my friend."

Fisher will be down this year because of guard play and Cortland lost quite a bit from last year. Cortland still has shooters but definitely not the most talented. Do we forget Plattsburgh, who won the SUNYAC last year or even SLU who is undefeated w/win vs. Plattsburgh and returns basically their whole lineup from a second place team last year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 01, 2006, 09:52:35 AM
Quote from: slickyquick on December 01, 2006, 09:29:43 AM
Fisher and Cortland, two of the most talented teams in the East Region....In the famous words of Lee Corso, "Not so fast my friend."

Fisher will be down this year because of guard play and Cortland lost quite a bit from last year. Cortland still has shooters but definitely not the most talented. Do we forget Plattsburgh, who won the SUNYAC last year or even SLU who is undefeated w/win vs. Plattsburgh and returns basically their whole lineup from a second place team last year.


I agree that both teams lost some, but their recruting advantages have netted them great talent again. Mike Lewis, a freshman at Cortland is going to be absolutely nasty. He could start for nearly any team in the region. Having coached him in HS lacrosse and watched him play ball since he was in elementary school, I am aware of the kind of athlete and positive attitude that Cortland got in him. I think he will develop into a great player for them.

I think those two teams and UC will be teams that show what they can do more towards the end of the season. They might have a bit of a slow start because of the youth, but as the season goes on they will get used to playing together and put all together.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCgrad45 on December 01, 2006, 09:54:50 AM
Quote from: rjcarter8 on November 21, 2006, 01:27:25 PM
Anyone have any Union College hoops news? What's the team look like this year? I know they lost a bunch of scoring and their point guard.

I hear 7 new players. Could be a tough year for them, but they always field a quality program.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 01, 2006, 10:47:39 AM
My opinion on the best teams in the East Region......

1. NYU (Only team to be ranked in the top 25)
2. UofR (still a year away, will be a better team in the end of the season, but still better then the region)
3. Hamilton (if keep winning will break top 25 eventually)
4. Utica
5. Whichever Sunyac is the best (Platt, Geneseo, maybe Bport)
6. Fisher (might be up to the top by the end of the season and after they get their chemistry in balance).  Game vs. UofR will tell a lot.
7. Clarkson
8. St. Lawrence
9. Nazareth
10.  Sunyac school (hard to tell with so many teams, and many times the teams are very streaky.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: unbearable on December 01, 2006, 11:21:32 AM
Although I usually stay on the SUNYAC board, I thought I'd throw in the fact that RPI is now 4-1 after dropping their opener in an away tournament at Muhlenburg by two, and has wins over both Williams and Middlebury.  If they beat Connecticut College tomorrow, there's a good chance they make it to January with a record of 7-1.

Also, Clarkson is still undefeated.  Knock their guards all you want; they hit 7 threes in a row in just a few minutes to beat Potsdam the other night.

Should be an interesting year in the Liberty League.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on December 01, 2006, 03:26:42 PM
Fisher Dynasty, I like your rankings except for the end. St. Lawrence is better than Clarkson. SLU beat Clarkson both times last year and both teams return about the same amount of players. Clarkson lost Vitallo, which might help with chemistry but I wouldn't say they are top 10 in the region just yet. I still think their guards are shaky until proven otherwise.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on December 01, 2006, 03:36:20 PM
slickyquick- you say that clarkson is still unproven, i would have to disagree with you slightly because they have beaten potsdam twice, potsdam is down this year, but still talented and their guards have been shooting the ball very well...harrison, vigansky and salanger will be a tough trio to stop...we will know more about clarkson once conference play starts because of their weak non-conference schedule...i think clarkson has a great shot of finishing in the top 3 in the leauge...after hamilton it's a shoot-out between clarkson, st. lawrence, and a much improved vassar team...whichever team has the best record against each other between those 3 teams will most likely finish 2nd in the league barring a major continental collapse
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on December 01, 2006, 04:00:31 PM
I understand were you are coming from when you talk about Clarkson's guards but at the same time aren't those 3 players the same guys that couldn't throw it in the ocean last season during certain times. They could just be playing well. We also must remember that they played Potsdam twice. You know Clarkson and Potsdam players both get up for that game because it is such a big rivalry. I still don't see them finishing in the top 3. What about RPI, they did beat two NESCAC schools. Conference play will only tell...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 01, 2006, 04:26:44 PM
I don't know about RPI - Middlebury may not win a NESCAC game this year and Williams is not the Williams of a few years ago.  I think St. Lawrence will definitely challenge Hamilton this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 03, 2006, 12:57:24 PM
I have to agree with the idea that St. Lawrence is better than Clarkson. St. Lawrence has always fielded a quality team with experienced guards. Unless Clarkson has an amazing Freshman class that I haven't heard about. SLU is a better team. Besides that I agree with your rankings.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on December 03, 2006, 04:56:20 PM
clarkson doesn't have an exellent freshman class...as of yet...but big boy elson pickering has been stepping up big time for the golden knights...18 and 11 in 20+ minutes the other night...the winner of the match up between pickering and vonnek could be the difference in who wins between clarkson and st. lawrence
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 03, 2006, 07:15:48 PM
I havn't seen either team play, just have been reading posts and lookin at the stats.  Looks like RPI may be able to get in their too with there win over Williams.  But all in all, its always tough to tell 1st semester.  Either way, it looks like this season should be interesting as their are no extremely dominate teams like in the past.  It looks like all the upstate leagues are pretty descent. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 03, 2006, 09:23:47 PM
If RPI beat Williams. It'd look mighty bad if Hamilton loses to them when they play them away on 1/23/07.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on December 03, 2006, 11:36:19 PM
somehow i just don't think tk and nick jones will let that happen...tk is playing too well to hang an L to a sub-par williams team and jones will definitely step up after having 2 bad games the previous 2 years including 1 where he didn't score at all...but again i have been wrong and hamilton/ williams is always a great game
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on December 04, 2006, 12:01:47 AM
RPI beat Williams at williams...even if williams is down this year as it seems to be, still a huge win for anybody on the road.  Hamilton should be able to get that win too.  SLU certainly is in the discussion with Hamilton at the top, RPI seems to be much improved over last year...Union looks young...those were the top 4 last year.  I don't know about clarkson and skidmore, but I think Vassar and hobart may slip into the discussion of who wins the LL tourney...

for discussion's sake...
1.  Hamilton
2.  SLU
3.  RPI
4.  Union
5.  Hobart
6.  Vassar
7.  Clarkson
8.  Skidmore
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: BBM on December 04, 2006, 11:31:08 AM
Interesting how it was mentioned that Clarkson gets up when they play Potsdam and how the Clarkson guards shot so well against Potsdam. This past Saturday Clarkson was extremely lucky to beat a hustling Elmira College team at Clarkson. Actually, EC led the entire game until the final minute. EC's guards totally negated those from Clarkson. Clarkson really stuggled from the outside but their size advantage down low wore EC down. If the guards play like this again against teams from their league, it will be a stuggle all year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 04, 2006, 01:19:33 PM
That is interesting.  Elmira could be the worst college team ever assembled, they have been god awful the past few years.  However, I have noticed already, and consistent with the past, Sunyac teams are very streaky, and ya never know what kind of team your going to get on any given day.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on December 04, 2006, 06:57:56 PM
So while Clarkson struggled against Elmira, I was proud of my response about Clarkson guards. They must do it every night to prove to me that will play tough when league play roles around...but a win is a win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 04, 2006, 10:37:43 PM
What do you guys think about how the conference will fair against games against the Empire 8? Does anyone play St. Johns Fisher? Are they as good as last year?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 04, 2006, 11:09:21 PM
I think two Leagues are pretty close this year.  If you take top 4 Fisher, Utica, RIT/Ithaca, Naz and top 4 in Liberty Hamilton, St. Lawrence, RPI and Clarkson itd be close.  I think Hamilton, Fisher and Utica are the 3 best with the others close behind.  This far into the season it is tough to tell who the best is, Hamilton beat Utica but everyone on the posts say that Utica should have won, I know that doest mean much but sometimes the better team doesnt win the game.  Fisher is suspect with their young guards and lack of leadership but its hard not to favor them from the past 2 very good seasons.   Hamilton probably has the most talent, Utica plays the strongest, and Fisher has the best big men.  Down the stretch id have to go with Utica tho, since they play very strong and play extremely good Defense.  We'll be able to see how good Fisher is this thursday against U of R.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on December 05, 2006, 11:19:09 AM
I think everyone is forgetting SLU. They return basically their whole team from last year which finished extremely strong considering they relied on 4 freshmen and 1 sophomore as their main players. They also got two guard recruits that will help with the point duties. They aren't normaly freshmen because one went to prep school and the other is about 21 years old. They should definitely be mentioned as one of the top teams in the region.

I don't know quite yet if we can include Fisher into the top teams this year. I'm not saying that they won't be but their freshmen guards have to mature quickly for them to be successful.  It is tough when you have really good bigs when your guards can't get them the ball.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on December 05, 2006, 12:34:13 PM
Quote from: UCAAHoops21 on December 04, 2006, 12:01:47 AM
RPI beat Williams at williams...even if williams is down this year as it seems to be, still a huge win for anybody on the road.  Hamilton should be able to get that win too.  SLU certainly is in the discussion with Hamilton at the top, RPI seems to be much improved over last year...Union looks young...those were the top 4 last year.  I don't know about clarkson and skidmore, but I think Vassar and hobart may slip into the discussion of who wins the LL tourney...

for discussion's sake...
1.  Hamilton
2.  SLU
3.  RPI
4.  Union
5.  Hobart
6.  Vassar
7.  Clarkson
8.  Skidmore

I don't think Union can rank that high, I'd probably swap them with Vassar. The Dutchmen are 1-2 and lost a ton of talent from last year's team. They are extremely young and inexperienced and just dropped a 76-70 loss to Middleury.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: cu_bball on December 05, 2006, 05:23:48 PM
Everyone seems to be doubting Clarkson's guards..  They werent very good against Elmira but the whole team played pretty poorly.  Big man Elson Pickering is definitly a presence down low and the teams defense has definitly improved.   Freshman Waryn  McCullough is looking pretty good since coming back from the injury and Brandon Linton adds alot of speed of the bench.  One flaw I have noticed is that the team tends to start slow and that will definitly hurt them against the better teams because they will fall behind early and they may not always be able to recover like they did vs. elmira. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on December 05, 2006, 06:18:57 PM
hey does anyone know why  the teams from the liberty league, empire 8 or suny ac ac conferences ever play ranked division III teams? do the coaches not want to schedul ethese out of conference games because they want a better record? or is there a nother reason? b/c you never see like say clarkson playing like virginia wesleyan or even nyu for that matter.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: cu_bball on December 05, 2006, 06:40:06 PM
Id speculate because most of the teams would get beat
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on December 05, 2006, 08:38:09 PM
I'd suspect New York area teams not playing teams in the top 25 because of budget restrictions especially for the SUNYAC schools. It is generally tough for a team like Oneonta to go out to play teams in like Wittenberg or Wooster because it would an extremely long trip and it doesn't benefit teams as much anymore. When I say it doesn't benefit them I mean it doesn't affect their strength of schedule because of the new way the Strength of Schedule works for the NCAA. I believe they only take their in region strength of schedule instead of their overall. So with RPI beating Williams at Williams it is not as big as of a win as we think. Of course, beating Williams on their home floor is a great win for the program but it won't affect their in region SOS.

I'm sure it would benefit teams to play them especially early in the season to see where they stand, but it is really tough budget wise. They aren't exactly working on U of R or NYU budgets here.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 05, 2006, 08:54:30 PM
I'm pretty sure Williams counts as in-region for RPI.  It's only about 30 miles away, and besides, it's listed as in-region on their schedule.  Williams is in-region for Hamilton, too.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 05, 2006, 09:17:02 PM
Hamilton over Wesleyan, 79-76.  Close game all they way.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on December 05, 2006, 09:56:28 PM
That was an interesting score, sounded like Jones and TK took over late in the game. Is Weslyan any good? I know they beat Williams but then again who hasn't this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 05, 2006, 10:12:14 PM
Wesleyan is likely a middle of the pack NESCAC team, below Amherst, Tufts, Bates, and Trinity, but could finish above any of the other five teams.  Pretty good win for Hamilton, but that's a game they should win.  Jones didn't seem to play much at all in the second half until the very end.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 05, 2006, 10:55:25 PM
woot returns.  Some teams schedule ranked teams, but with the league play and the Chase tournament in Rochester, there are a limited number of non-conf games.  Fisher & U of R 2 ranked teams in the past have a hard time scheduling other ranked teams because there isnt any in the Region.  But some 2, Fisher has played Baldwin Wallace, Randolph Macon, Springfield, York PA.  U of R schedules usually a few good teams into their preseason mix Wittinburgh, some UW Wisconsin teams etc, Hamilton travels to the Nescac, and Brockport has gone to calvin and played some Nescac schools but again, a lot of schools only have the budget to make a long road trip once every few years, its a shame. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on December 05, 2006, 10:58:30 PM
no wesleyan is not good at all, but they work together.. not a single player on their team as a spec of athletic ability and most are very unathletic. They are undersized at most positions and have no real stars. Some of the players on the team look like they have been playing basketball for about a month. however, they hustle, have a lot of heart, and seem to be respect their coach and his game plan. the reason why wesleyan almost beat hamilton is beacuse hamilton's tobin anderson was severely out coached by the weseleyan coach. no one on the hamilton team respects or likes their coach and it is is clearly evident on the court. the hamilton team is on a verge of a complete collapse and division. Don't be surprised if hamilton loses alot this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 05, 2006, 11:06:53 PM
Isn't that the same thing that gets said about Anderson and Hamilton every year since he's been there?  And that's a bit harsh on Wesleyan.  They're no playoff contender, but they're not Paul Smiths, either.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on December 06, 2006, 09:39:56 AM
I could be wrong about the in-region games with teams like Williams and what not. What I was saying was a proposal from the NCAA that came about a couple of years ago and I know a couple of coaches weren't too happy about it because playing a team like Trinity or Amherst wouldn't mean a thing for a team outside their region.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on December 06, 2006, 01:24:07 PM
Here we go again with the coaching at Hamilton. Give it a rest already! Woot you clearly are going to say that every team that plays Hamilton has a better coach, or out coached Hamilton or Anderson can't do this or that. Wesleyan must have some talent to go in and beat Williams. Apparently in the last two wins (Utica and Wesleyan) Hamilton won when they were down at half. Bad coaches lose close games, they don't continually win them. In both contests you claim Hamilton was out coached. If that was true then where are the Ws for the other teams? You have now stated that in both games Hamilton was out coached. Now when i hear or use the words "out coached" they always seem to go along with victory. I dont ever hear a winning coach after victory going "man we were out coached this evening" I never hear an annoucer going "I tell you what it was a good victory but they were out coached the entire game" Now when teams lose I hear it all the time. Second year in a row Hamilton starts off with five wins and the coaching is always a problem. 23-5 last year and 5-0 this year already. Clearly you have some bitterness at the coaching at Hamilton. I suspect the coach cut you or you are a Murphy guy. Either way lets go forward and let the results speak for themselves, and I thought they did last year? How many 20 win seasons does Hamilton have to have to validate the program? Lets concentrate on the basketball, the players, and the match ups. What kind of person can honestly state that after a team is 5-0 that they are going to lose a lot of games this year? I don't issue the karma on this site but i'd put you in the negative already!

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: JQV on December 06, 2006, 01:33:10 PM
Quote from: shooters on December 06, 2006, 01:24:07 PM
Here we go again with the coaching at Hamilton. Give it a rest already! Woot you clearly are going to say that every team that plays Hamilton has a better coach, or out coached Hamilton or Anderson can't do this or that. Wesleyan must have some talent to go in and beat Williams. Apparently in the last two wins (Utica and Wesleyan) Hamilton won when they were down at half. Bad coaches lose close games, they don't continually win them. In both contests you claim Hamilton was out coached. If that was true then where are the Ws for the other teams? You have now stated that in both games Hamilton was out coached. Now when i hear or use the words "out coached" they always seem to go along with victory. I dont ever hear a winning coach after victory going "man we were out coached this evening" I never hear an annoucer going "I tell you what it was a good victory but they were out coached the entire game" Now when teams lose I hear it all the time. Second year in a row Hamilton starts off with five wins and the coaching is always a problem. 23-5 last year and 5-0 this year already. Clearly you have some bitterness at the coaching at Hamilton. I suspect the coach cut you or you are a Murphy guy. Either way lets go forward and let the results speak for themselves, and I thought they did last year? How many 20 win seasons does Hamilton have to have to validate the program? Lets concentrate on the basketball, the players, and the match ups. What kind of person can honestly state that after a team is 5-0 that they are going to lose a lot of games this year? I don't issue the karma on this site but i'd put you in the negative already!


Without knowing woot's motivation or, really, anything about Hamilton's coach, I'll just add that winning games doesn't always mean good coaching.  Coach's get a lot of unfair criticism for losses but, also get a lot of undue credit for wins.  It is perfectly plausible for a coach to get outcoached and win a game because he has superior talent.

As I said, I don't know anything about the Hamilton Coach or what he did in any of these games.  I will also add, in the interest of full disclosure, that Coach Murphy recruited me and I always had a lot of respect for him.  All that said, I am not sure you necessarily refuted woot's criticism of the coaching staff simply by pointing out that the team won the game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on December 06, 2006, 04:15:14 PM
jose,

I understand that my point might not be the greatest one on this board, i just get sick of hearing this crap about Hamilton's coach on and on and on. I mean I ask about Wesleyan and i get this crap about how they have no ability whatsoever but they play hard for their coach and play with heart and team basketball and well coached. And then where does that lead us....to this the Hamilton players have no respect for coach Anderson and they don't like him. No offense to anyone but it sounds like my second grader coming in from recess and not getting picked first for kickball. Players transfer in to play for this guy, not transfer away. Vega transferred from Lemoyne to Clarkson when Anderson was there and thats D2 to D3(and Clarkson none the less). Jones and Valenti transferred from Clarkson to Hamilton and last time I checked Jones is still on the squad. Rogers transferred from Conn. College to play for Anderson. I find it very odd that this guy wins, and wins no matter where he goes, and this one salty guy posts on here that Hamilton is on the verge of collapsing and none of the players respect the coach and blah blah blah. I have not met the coach but I know of his record and reputation at Five Star. And for the record I was not saying anything negative about Murphy, just that I know the first year on here after Murphy left there was a lot of hostility on the posts, hence the reference. In short, I wish we could talk about basketball. How did Wesleyan match up w/ Hamiton? What were their styles? Who played well? Are they young or a team of seniors? How effective was the press? How did Hamilton's freshman guards play? Can Wesleyan make a move against the powerhouses in their conference? What to expect next year?

No one on here posts: Did they play with heart? Did they respect their coach? Please capture the mood of each player and how he feels about his respective coach? Are the players and coach getting along and if so are there regular team outings and how many players sit with coach during these outings? If a joke is told, who tells it? Who is the first to laugh and whose laughs are genuine and whose are for courtesy?

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: JQV on December 06, 2006, 04:54:22 PM
Quote from: shooters on December 06, 2006, 04:15:14 PM
jose,

I understand that my point might not be the greatest one on this board, i just get sick of hearing this crap about Hamilton's coach on and on and on. I mean I ask about Wesleyan and i get this crap about how they have no ability whatsoever but they play hard for their coach and play with heart and team basketball and well coached. And then where does that lead us....to this the Hamilton players have no respect for coach Anderson and they don't like him. No offense to anyone but it sounds like my second grader coming in from recess and not getting picked first for kickball. Players transfer in to play for this guy, not transfer away. Vega transferred from Lemoyne to Clarkson when Anderson was there and thats D2 to D3(and Clarkson none the less). Jones and Valenti transferred from Clarkson to Hamilton and last time I checked Jones is still on the squad. Rogers transferred from Conn. College to play for Anderson. I find it very odd that this guy wins, and wins no matter where he goes, and this one salty guy posts on here that Hamilton is on the verge of collapsing and none of the players respect the coach and blah blah blah. I have not met the coach but I know of his record and reputation at Five Star. And for the record I was not saying anything negative about Murphy, just that I know the first year on here after Murphy left there was a lot of hostility on the posts, hence the reference. In short, I wish we could talk about basketball. How did Wesleyan match up w/ Hamiton? What were their styles? Who played well? Are they young or a team of seniors? How effective was the press? How did Hamilton's freshman guards play? Can Wesleyan make a move against the powerhouses in their conference? What to expect next year?

No one on here posts: Did they play with heart? Did they respect their coach? Please capture the mood of each player and how he feels about his respective coach? Are the players and coach getting along and if so are there regular team outings and how many players sit with coach during these outings? If a joke is told, who tells it? Who is the first to laugh and whose laughs are genuine and whose are for courtesy?



The guy probably takes some unfair heat.  Whenever a legend like Murphy gets shown the door in an unceremonious fashion whomever replaces him is going to get blamed for that undeservedly.  Just ask Ron Zook.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 06, 2006, 10:20:58 PM
Actually, Woot is pretty much on target. After talking to the guys on the team after the win versus Wesleyan they were pretty upset with Tobin. Wesleyan played a good game but they are a team that should have been blown out by Hamilton. Wesleyan had no game or any star player. There best scorer was on the bench the whole game and Hamilton barely held on for the win.

If you want to talk about basketball. Harlee Wood had an incredible game. He had a career-high 21 points and was the only one that kept Hamilton close while TK was on the bench. As the Hamilton announcer says, "Hooray for Harlee Wood!".

But my perspective on Tobin's coaching style during the game. I think he wanted to get as many kids in the game as possible and see if they could score and play well. He played lots of kids that normally don't get much playing time. I think he expected to be able to easily beat Wesleyan even with his bench players. I'm just glad that we came out of a sloppy game with a win.

Go Blue!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on December 07, 2006, 04:15:03 PM
hey shooters,
Its easy for tobin to win when he has one of the best players in dIII basketball on his team (TK)  that murphy recruited and a two potential all americans in giorgi and ray (also recruited by murphy). the reason why jones and valenti transferred was to play with two of the best players in the eastern conference at the time in welchons and tk. Tobin is extremely manipulative and promises many things to players he recuits.  If hamilton continues to do well two years from now then i will get on my knees an beg for your forgiveness, shooters
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: JQV on December 07, 2006, 04:17:30 PM
Quote from: woot returns on December 07, 2006, 04:15:03 PM
Tobin is extremely manipulative and promises many things to players he recuits.

Not sure if you are an ex-player or not but this about describes the entire college recruiting process.  I mean, that is how you get kids to choose school A over school B when it is close...right?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on December 07, 2006, 04:17:41 PM
as for wesleyan, some kid named jimmy sheperd kept hitting threes and the team was pretty goofy all around.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 07, 2006, 04:21:34 PM
well put.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on December 07, 2006, 04:24:31 PM
Regardless of what opionons of Tobin are, he has been getting it done. He did well while he was at Clarkson and has done pretty well at Hamilton. He is in a tough situation at Hamilton. Basically it is like living up to whoever replaces Boeheim. No matter how well he does and what type of players he has, he will never be Murphy. How would you feel if you were replacing a legend? It would be tough to walk into the gym everyday and see a bronze plaque of the person he replaced.

Expectations are high for him, as they should be, but people need to take it easy. Everyone needs to give him another year. Don't they that college coaches should have four years so they can bring in their own recruits and establish their program. He is almost there, but don't expect a national championship any time soon.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on December 07, 2006, 04:49:02 PM
woot- jimmy shepard knocking down 3's is nothing new...sheppard can probably be considered one of the better 3-ball shooters in the region (well, northeast and east at least)...i've seen him play a couple times and he was tough every time, very deceptive...but very right about the goofiness of the wesleyan players...just look at tobin anderson, he is goofy, and he went to wesleyan...at least they are keeping the tradition going
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on December 07, 2006, 06:09:39 PM
speaking of the nescac, is anyone else as surprised as I am at Bates being ranked 17th in the nation. They really havent played any powerhouses yet and only beat bowdoin by a point. I know very little about their team. but it appears they are ranked a bit high.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on December 07, 2006, 06:14:54 PM
I just saw this and thought it was really funny. The athletic director of Lincoln made a statement apologizing for their 201-78 win the other night because of bad sportmanship. Does anyone else think this is as ridiculuous as I think it is?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 07, 2006, 06:29:13 PM
In no way could Giorgi Chavleishvili ever be considered a potential all-american.  Regarding Bates, they were very strong in the NESCAC last year and returned just about everyone.  Whether the #17 is justified or not, it will be hard to tell until they play Amherst, Trinity, Tufts, etc.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 07, 2006, 06:32:06 PM
I think the fact that Lincoln's best player was still in the game at the end is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on December 07, 2006, 07:20:36 PM
Giorgi an all american? The guy can't get from one end of the court to the other without someone laughing in the stands. I haven't seen Giorgi play this year but last year he was flat out awful. He couldn't guard a tree on a calm day let alone D3 players. If he ever starts for Hamilton or averages more than five points a game I will get on my knees and beg for your forgiveness. I think Ray can play but neither one of these guys even start for Hamilton. All Americans don't sit on the bench no matter who is coaching. With those comments I now know you have a  serious bias toward Murphy and against Anderson. Next thing you will tell me is that Nick Jones went to Clarkson because of its academics not the coach. Enough. I know where you stand on this issue you know where I stand, lets get back to basketball. Anyone know anything about Middlebury?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 08, 2006, 04:55:01 PM
I just wanted to say that Giorgi averages more than 5 points a game.


## SUMMARY              GP-GS   Min   FG%  3PT%   FT%  R/G  A/G STL BLK PTS/G
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40 Giorgi Chavleishvili      5-2  14.2  .571  1.000 .667   2.0   0.8    1    0    7.4
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 08, 2006, 09:27:29 PM
Middlebury seems like a perennially middle of the road kind of team. I haven't seen them play but through analyzing their stats it is interesting to see that no one averages more than 26 minutes a game. Their highest scorer averages 13.7 points a game and a few people average around 5 rebounds. Their 3-point field goal percentage is decent at around 39%. They have only made the NESCAC playoffs 3 of the last 5 years.

So far this season they have beaten Union but lost to St. Lawrence and Rensselaer. I think Hamilton is going to have a tough time with them tomorrow. Especially, with how they played against Wesleyan the other night. Hopefully, they'll come out with the win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 09, 2006, 10:07:55 AM
Middlebury is another team that Hamilton has to beat.  They are perennial bottom-feeders in the NESCAC.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on December 09, 2006, 03:40:59 PM
Alright I got a little carried away with Giorgi and the 5pts my apologies. Sounds like Hamilton is playing well in the first half, thanks for the breakdown on Middlebury.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 09, 2006, 08:09:21 PM
84-86 Middlebury over Hamilton.

No words can describe how upset I am with this loss. I think we were coached into it by putting players on the floor who couldn't score for most of the second half.

Anyone see the game? Have an opinion?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on December 09, 2006, 09:48:39 PM
once again, middlebury was a team hamilton should have easily defeated. i looked at the stats and found that middlebury shot about 16 more shots than hamilton.....hamilton was outrebounded. horrible defense by hamilton. why they didnt get the ball to tk every possession is beyond me. he was unstoppable. and nick jones is having his worst season in his college basketball career. he should be ashamed with his play. yeh i agree with you, the decisiom to have 5 freshman and sophmore guards out on the floor at once was absolutely ridiculuous.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on December 10, 2006, 09:16:51 AM
First off Middlebury should not have been within single digits let alone win the game. Secondly you can say all you want about the coaching but the bottom line is Hamilton was outplayed. They were absolutely KILLED on the boards, Middlebury got at least three shots for every one of Hamiltons. J. Simpson kept Hamilton in the game and hit two huge 3s and TK fouled out so he couldn't have been in the game at the very end but yes he should get a touch every time down the floor. Ray Ray killed them with late turnovers. Nick Jones better have the flu or be seriously injured b/c at this rate he should probably not even start. Not a good loss for Hamilton but the way they have been playing you could see this one coming. I'm as upset as anyone.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 10, 2006, 12:56:53 PM
I completely agree with you on everything you said. Nick Jones has definitely been more of a liability than a star on the court this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on December 10, 2006, 07:37:24 PM
granted...Nick Jones is having statistically his worst season in college to date...but saying that he is a liability on the floor is ludacris...he is playing 25 mpg and getting 11 and 5 per contest while shooting 50% from the floor...yes, he is tied with tk with most turnovers on the team...but just having a guy like nick who is 6'6" and can play on the wing is a huge asset in D3...Nick has proven that he is a very good player...he just needs to take that next step up to be a great D3 player...he will hopefully break out of his funk (for Hamilton's sake) and I have a feeling that by the time the season ends Jones will be back to typical form, if not better
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 10, 2006, 09:40:35 PM
I don't know what you see in Nick Jones. He's a ball hog who doesn't play with the team. I've been watching him since he came to Hamilton. Have you noticed that he doesn't watch the play when he's on the bench and that he just sits there talking to the people next to him. I get your points and they could be absolutely true. I was glad to see that he hit a big three down the stretch yesterday but his play hasn't been stellar and he hasn't been passing the ball. Hamilton needs to pass the ball and play as a team. The only one who has any right to demand the ball is TK. TK is by far the best player on team. When they went to Amherst last year in the NCAA tournament he was the only one capable of scoring. So... Finally, Jones needs to start playing with the team and TK needs to be more selfish. Jones.... I guess isn't a liability but he needs to start passing the ball.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on December 10, 2006, 10:27:02 PM
No I agree that Nick Jones has the skills to be an awesome player that is what is so upsetting. I will wait and see but he should be dominating and he doesn't seem to be playing with any heart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on December 10, 2006, 11:18:17 PM
cardz-you are definitely right about hamilton needing to share the ball better...they are averaging a little less than 13 assists a game as a team...tk leads the team at 2.5 apg, followed by alston at 2 and jones and simpson at 1.5...hamilton needs to be averaging at least 16-17 assists per game to be a good team consistently...last year they had welchons that could get to the hole if the offense broke down, they had valenti who could knock down an open triple with his eyes closed and they had peck who they could count on to get a board...this year they may not have as much individual talent, but that should lead to them sharing the ball better...right now tk is getting about 15 shots per game...i think if anderson can get him 17-18 shots a game the continentals will be very hard to beat...and also i think the guys need to figure out who the shooters are and who are not...they only have 1 guy who has taken more than 1 3 on the year shooting above 40% and only 2 above 35%...the more inside touches tk, wood and giorgi get down low, the more open looks jones, rozgys, alston, etc will get on the perimeter
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on December 11, 2006, 11:49:00 AM
So SLU is 9-0, Hamilton is 5-1 and RPI and Clarkson are 6-2 so far...

What are everybody's biggest surprises so far???  Is RPI and/or Clarkson good enough to knock off SLU or Hamilton?

Any good stories from the first semester?  If Hamilton is as shaky as some posters say, is SLU the team to beat???

Looking at schedules, Hamilton lost at home to middlebury, Middlebury lost to SLU at SLU, Middlebury beat Union at Union, and RPI beat Middlebury at Middlebury.  Does this say anything about any of the teams???? Just curious
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on December 11, 2006, 11:52:32 AM
Everyone is knocking Nick Jones and I guess to a certain extent there are legit concerns. One thing we need to realize that there is a reason he is a D3 player. If he was a 6'6" athletic wing who brought his "A" game all the time he wouldn't be at Hamilton. He would probably be at a Patriot League school.

Everyone labels these guys as superstars and expects them to be "world killers" everytime they go out on the floor. It just doesn't happen all the time. Not comparing Tyler Hansborough with Jones but Hansborough has been held to single figures twice this year, so that automatically makes him the worst player in Carolina history.

Everyone just needs to settle down and let these kids play instead of getting on everything they do wrong. They aren't scholarship athletes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on December 11, 2006, 12:38:58 PM
great point slick...you also have to factor in that jones and others at hamilton are attending one of the best academic schools in the country...trying to balance school work and basketball is a very tough thing, especially for someone as demanding as tobin anderson
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on December 11, 2006, 02:16:36 PM
cut nick jones a little slack here. first of all, he plays for hamilton college, not duke. its d3 basketball, so at least give him some credit for playin four years out of pure love for the game. no offense to him, but even if he plays at the next level somewhere, basketball probably isnt going to make him rich. maybe he seen these posts of people just killin him and its in his head. just a thought

anyways, back to other topics. what has anyone heard about vassar? the kid avitable is havin another great year - top five in the conference in ppg, rpg, assists, blocks, FG% - and they have a couple scorers at guard this year they havent had in the past to compliment him. is this just vassar beatin up on an easy non-conference schedule again (although they did take Wash U to the wire).

also, does anyone know anything about the freshman coming in at union, skidmore, and rpi?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on December 11, 2006, 03:59:55 PM
i understand what you are saying about nick jones. it is just so frustrating to see someone with so much potential in basketball, waste it like he is. it just goes to show you talent will only take you so far, you must be mentally strong as well.

I think st. lawrence will be the team to beat this year. They looked like a team on the rise last year with that kid bela vonnak. He gave hamilton so much trouble last year and should be able to do the same this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on December 11, 2006, 07:06:23 PM
i dont know about union's freshman but they better be good because their best two players graduated last year in john caginello and that linebacker-looking kid. i wouldn't worry too much about skidmore
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on December 12, 2006, 12:50:28 PM
Union not only graduated Caginello and Scordato (I'm assuming he's the linebacker looking kid?) — both 1,000-point scorers in their careers — as well as their 4-year point guard Chris Murphy who compares to Welchons as far as being a distributor of the basketball.

The Dutchmen are going to have some growing pains this year with a freshman and sophomore-laden team. They are currently 2-3, though the losses have come against Lasell, Middlebury and Williams. Senior Joe Mackey also has been getting on a roll, scoring better than 20 points in each of his last three games.

As for the Hamilton academics issue making it hard for Jones, there is no doubt Hamilton has top-otch academics, but how much of that really impairs its athletes? I know it's not to D-I standards in terms of ease, but athletes usually have mandatory study time built into their schedules and other academic assistance available.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on December 12, 2006, 02:24:34 PM
had a chance to see vassar play new paltz about a week ago, and avitable can do it all - 20pts, 12rbs, 5a, 4blk, 3stls. they also got the kid brazell - had 21 in the second half. if they can get solid play out of their point guards, there gonna sneak up on alot of people.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on December 12, 2006, 04:28:08 PM
just thinking about league play....
What is the toughest trip for teams this year??

If I look at the schedule right, the trips breakdown like this
Clarkson & SLU?
Hamilton & Hobart?
Union & Skidmore?
RPI & Vassar?

The north country is always a tough trip for teams, but if vassar is strong and RPI continues to play well, is it possible that they are the toughest back-to-back games in the LL?

I don't know enough about vassar to proclaim this, but I am wondering what people think
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on December 12, 2006, 06:26:39 PM
i'm gonna take an idea from the E8 message board, if you had to make a team from the 99-00 season to the present 06-07 season with only the best players from the liberty league, who would be on your all first team, second team?

Ill nominate three hamilton alum:
Michael Schantz
Joe Finley
Joe Smith
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on December 13, 2006, 09:40:54 AM
I'd have to add in Aaron Marshall. One of the best players out of the East Region that gets zero respect when it comes to individual accomplishments.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on December 13, 2006, 11:41:49 AM
From Union I'd have to say:

John Cagianello (2002-06) 2,006 career points
Aaron Galletta (1998-01) 1,949 career points

I know scoring a lot of career points isn't the only measure, but these two players were true team leaders and both played in a pair of NCAA tournament games.

Next on Union's list is C.J. Rodgers (1998-01) 1,275 career points, and though his scoring need was offset by Galletta's presence, Rodgers was a force on the boards despite his less than big man size.

The other team I'd put up for consideration are  Brian Scordato (2002-06) 1,354 career points and Devon Bruce (2001-05) 1,169 career points. Both players had scoring pressure alleviated by the presence of Cagianello, but they also knew how to hit the boards.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on December 13, 2006, 11:54:53 AM
yeh id def would agree with caginello
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on December 13, 2006, 01:46:06 PM
how about josh harner...leading scorer for a clarkson team when they put together some of the best years in school history...maybe the biggest recruit tobin anderson has ever gotten...getting a guy to come from houston, tx to potsdam, ny is pretty tough...harner was one of the most pure shooters i have ever seen...i would say he was the best 2 guard in the last 7 years behind cag from union
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Forty 1 on December 13, 2006, 03:14:51 PM
I'd agree that RPI Vasser has the potential to be the hardest back to back this year along with clarkson SLU but i'm not convinced clarkson is that good yet. I think its a very underrated but very important thing that doesn't get talked about much. I think RPI has been hurt in the past when Vasser was real weak and Union the last few years when Skidmore was so bad. Teams spend much more time during the week preparing for  the much btter team often ignoring the bad team completely hoping to win on talent and execution if they are as terrible as some of these teams have been. Also playing a tough team/tough game friday night is a hard thing to bounce back from saturday.

Also use academics as an excuse for Jones performance, everyone is going through the same thing as he is and dealing with it. The last week of school and finals week (usually no games finals week) are tough for most but this is a season of i wouldn't say bad but not living up to potential performances.

The middlebury scores from the 4 or so teams that played them are interesting. I think the gap between the top 2 teams right now is alot closer than many had predicted.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Forty 1 on December 13, 2006, 03:33:18 PM
1st Team
Joe Finley - Ham
Jared Hite - RPI
dana martin - skd
cagianello - Union (although i don't think he would be as successful without the motion and screens union ran for him will still get open looks due from the talent around him)
Don't have a PG now but i would want a better shooter/defender than murphy if i was putting this team together

2nd Team
Joe Corbett - HoB
Joe Smith  -  HAM
SG Paris Moore- RPI (wouldn't be on my actual team because he's not a team player but talent wise should be here)
so SG  Josh Harner - Clark

the 3's and 1's are harder to name (i'm not impressed by dana martin) so would probably end up trying to play 3 big guys with trying to sneak in Tsakani Ngobeni -HAM or Tom Schneider -RPI at the 3 and and an unselfish all around SG to play PG Greg Leone - Ham is first to come to mind but haven't thought much about that
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on December 13, 2006, 04:01:01 PM
Quote from: Forty 1 on December 13, 2006, 03:33:18 PM
cagianello - Union (although i don't think he would be as successful without the motion and screens union ran for him will still get open looks due from the talent around him)
Don't have a PG now but i would want a better shooter/defender than murphy if i was putting this team together



As far as Cag not being as good if he didn't have the offense designed to benefit him, you may be right. However, wouldn't that hold true for other players that have been successful in the league. The best players usually are the keys to the team, so wouldn't it make sense for teams to design offenses — and to a lesser extent defenses — that play to their more talented players strengths?

As for Murphy, not the best shooter/defender, but he was clutch at the line — most of the time — and is one of the best distributors of the basketball in a while. I think he'd at least merit a mention for 2nd team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on December 13, 2006, 04:27:44 PM
another guy to mention is steve vega from clarkson...more of a scoring point guard (about 20 ppg as a senior), but he also had about 4 boards and about 5 assists per game while scoring 20...decent defender from what i can remember too
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 13, 2006, 11:16:06 PM
I got a question for you guys.

Who's the best Freshman in the Liberty League?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Forty 1 on December 13, 2006, 11:52:53 PM


As far as Cag not being as good if he didn't have the offense designed to benefit him, you may be right. However, wouldn't that hold true for other players that have been successful in the league. The best players usually are the keys to the team, so wouldn't it make sense for teams to design offenses — and to a lesser extent defenses — that play to their more talented players strengths?

As for Murphy, not the best shooter/defender, but he was clutch at the line — most of the time — and is one of the best distributors of the basketball in a while. I think he'd at least merit a mention for 2nd team.
[/quote]

I think most of the other players are much better one on one players (not that he's bad) and can be as succesful in a wide variety of offenses when they have the ball. Cag is great catching and shooting off screens and using that to set up pump fakes and 1 dribble pullups  but obviosuly doesn't have the skills to be nearly as succesfful without them. My point being that with that much other talent (especially big guys) around him i dont think he would nearly as many of the kind of looks he's used. I also feel that if we were putting this team together to play other top teams or even other confrences "all star" teams our strength would be inside. Meaning that compared to the rest of the country our big guys (not really curreently but in the past) are much better comparitevely than our guards and thus the offense would revolve around them.



Quote

As for Murphy, not the best shooter/defender, but he was clutch at the line — most of the time — and is one of the best distributors of the basketball in a while. I think he'd at least merit a mention for 2nd team.

I guess i should explain this better, i think he is proabably the best pure pg from this period. Honestly to me there isn't another memorable one. Depending on philophy this may be better for this team given all the talent/scoring already there . However i do not think he is in the top 5, 10 or even 20 players in that period. You will probably think i am undervalueing the role of the PG but i believe that some of the more talented 2's could do almost as good of job running the team and provide some of the things murphy can't.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Forty 1 on December 13, 2006, 11:57:22 PM
Quote from: alucardz on December 13, 2006, 11:16:06 PM
I got a question for you guys.

Who's the best Freshman in the Liberty League?

I haven't seen every team play so this is somewhat based on looking at the stats and others opinions.

I don't think there is a freshman in the league that stands out above any of the good ones getting some minutes and being productive.

I will however say that the freshman with the most potential and who will eventually be the best player is Ricky Philatre (sp?) from RPI. 6'8'' long and athletic by far the most physical gifted and has already shown hes capable of having huge games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on December 14, 2006, 12:06:45 AM
perhaps, the next devean george?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 15, 2006, 02:28:42 PM
What?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on December 16, 2006, 12:39:22 PM
Quote from: Forty 1 on December 13, 2006, 11:52:53 PM


As far as Cag not being as good if he didn't have the offense designed to benefit him, you may be right. However, wouldn't that hold true for other players that have been successful in the league. The best players usually are the keys to the team, so wouldn't it make sense for teams to design offenses — and to a lesser extent defenses — that play to their more talented players strengths?

As for Murphy, not the best shooter/defender, but he was clutch at the line — most of the time — and is one of the best distributors of the basketball in a while. I think he'd at least merit a mention for 2nd team.

Quote
I think most of the other players are much better one on one players (not that he's bad) and can be as succesful in a wide variety of offenses when they have the ball. Cag is great catching and shooting off screens and using that to set up pump fakes and 1 dribble pullups  but obviosuly doesn't have the skills to be nearly as succesfful without them. My point being that with that much other talent (especially big guys) around him i dont think he would nearly as many of the kind of looks he's used. I also feel that if we were putting this team together to play other top teams or even other confrences "all star" teams our strength would be inside. Meaning that compared to the rest of the country our big guys (not really curreently but in the past) are much better comparitevely than our guards and thus the offense would revolve around them.


Quote

As for Murphy, not the best shooter/defender, but he was clutch at the line — most of the time — and is one of the best distributors of the basketball in a while. I think he'd at least merit a mention for 2nd team.

Quote
I guess i should explain this better, i think he is proabably the best pure pg from this period. Honestly to me there isn't another memorable one. Depending on philophy this may be better for this team given all the talent/scoring already there . However i do not think he is in the top 5, 10 or even 20 players in that period. You will probably think i am undervalueing the role of the PG but i believe that some of the more talented 2's could do almost as good of job running the team and provide some of the things murphy can't.



Sorry about my response to this post. I clearly screwed up the quote feature, so I am reposting. This should make more sense alucardz.

Union did have some other weapons, but I'm not sure I understand your big guys comment. The Dutchmen usually have a hard time rebounding against other teams, as their big men are more jump shooters than back-to-the-basket guys.

Bruce was tough on the boards, but last season — Cag's senior year — there was no real go-to rebounder or big guy.

Scordato did pick up some of the slack, but he's wing player not a post presence.

I have no problem with your rationale for saying there are probably more talented 2s that could run the point while giving more options than Murphy. I was just trying to offer up a player that played the point exclusively to fit into the starting five mold.

I also agree that he's not in the top 10 players during that period, but the intangibles he provided Union during his tenure would put him in the top 20 — but that's just my opinion.

As much as replacing Cagianello and Scordato is going to be tough for the Dutchmen this season, Murphy's graduation is leaving Union with a bigger void to fill than the other two.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3lifer on December 16, 2006, 01:33:13 PM
On this conversation about guys who can fill both roles as a scorer and a leader, with regards to this conversation about Murphy...

Tim Welchons is a perfect example of a guy who ran the team but also could fill it up a nightly basis. But with that said Murphy did have a very defined role on that team and that to run a very complex offense, one the most difficult in college basketball.

The combo guard is definitely on the rise in many leagues, because the role of the point guard has changed some over the years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 17, 2006, 11:35:58 PM
Very true, the combo guard is necessary for almost every winning team. You can see it in how kids play the game now. Every kid that plays the point wants to average 15 points and 5 assists and in doing so takes a lot more risks.

But this is a noticeable change from the high school level. In high school the point was primarily run by the short kid who could handle the ball and occasionally make a three. At the college level they need to be able to penetrate, make buckets, and hit the open man. They aren't so much ball handlers but a dual threat along with scoring.

Welchons I thought was a great example in the Liberty League similar to how in the NBA you have Deron Williams, who can put up 28 and 10.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Forty 1 on December 19, 2006, 11:43:27 AM
first semester mvp?

1. Tsakani Ngobeni -  HAM-clearly frontrunner, big numbers and huge on the boards, plus team is probably favorites to win the divison
2. Neal Wesson - RPI - does it all
3. Lawerence Avitable - VAS
4. no one really stands out after this point, tough pick a guy from St. Law because they are so balanced.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on December 19, 2006, 09:09:11 PM
noone can argue with TK right now - hes put that team on his back. but larry avitable is one of the best all around players in the northeast, let alone the liberty league. just look at the stats over his career. if he was playin at a school with a better tradition than vassar, he would be all over this message board. i urge all of you to get out and see him play once before the year is done.
Title: Liberty League recruits
Post by: Bball3 Fan on December 22, 2006, 09:06:50 PM
Any newly committed talent for next year in the Liberty league?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3lifer on December 22, 2006, 09:57:26 PM
Are you talking about 2007-2008? Generally unlike Division I there really isn't an early signing period at the Division III level a lot of it comes down to financial aid which doesn't get done until the spring time. Kids generally decide in April, May, and June at least for sure at the Division III level, so it is fairly early to tell.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on December 28, 2006, 11:32:14 PM
With the opening of liberty league action only a few weeks away, any predictions for the first weekend of games?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 29, 2006, 10:10:18 PM
Hamilton beats Haverford 60-51 in what looked like a sloppy game from the box score. Harlee Wood went 5 for 10 from the free throw line and TK was 0 for 5 from 3pt land. We'll see if they can win the championship game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on December 30, 2006, 11:33:51 PM
Hamilton beats nationally ranked Depauw in OT.

It's about time they get it together for a win over a legit team. What happened against Middlebury?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 31, 2006, 01:40:18 AM
I can never understand why they have such problems with Middlebury.  They do it every two or three years.  DePauw is definitely a good win to go along with the Utica game.  But until they start beating the teams they're supposed to beat consistently by double figures I won't feel confident about this team. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on December 31, 2006, 11:41:32 AM
Good win by Hamilton, someone on this site said there wouldn't be any freshman that were "instant players" well from the two games i've watched Jay Simpson late in the game has taken over (one in the loss to Middlebury only reason it was close was b/c of Simpson) and then yesterday taking complete control at the end. He is a big time player, he might not be putting up huge numbers but he can get to the bucket any time he wants and is distributing the ball to the big men (something that didn't happen last year) TK and Wood are playing really well and even Giorgi looked good yesterday. Once Nick hits his stride this is going to be a pretty good team. Sure there are going to be growing pains but I'm excited with the conference about to begin!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 03, 2007, 12:52:51 PM
what the deal with the hobart bb team these days?

i haven't really kept tabs on them to be honest (i am more of a football and lax guy), but i believe that coach roche had done a good job turning the program around until he resigned/got fired/left the school a couple of years ago.

from the looks of the early results, the team has regressed back to being it's usual sub-.500 standing in the LL.

any thoughts from the BB LLPP?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on January 03, 2007, 07:59:48 PM
Any fans out there that know why Ray Byrant did not play against Clarkson last night?  Another solid win for Clarkson.... who knows could be a sleeper...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 05, 2007, 10:57:58 PM
Even without Ray Bryant that's an excellent win for Clarkson. The Liberty League regular season is going to be fun to watch this year. Hamilton lost to Brockport State today by almost 20. What's with the SUNYAC? They must have pretty good teams. Hamilton struggled to a win against Plattsburgh State in the NCAA tournament last season. Brockport State is 7-1 this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 05, 2007, 11:24:24 PM
That is a pretty impressive onslaught. Hamilton is a talented team that usually is pretty athletic and likes to run similiar to Bport.  After seeing the Bport vs Fisher game, Bport is a team that can beat anybody if they are forcing turnovers and hitting there 3's, however when the shots aren't fallin, they can be beat against just about anybody.  But, needless to say, I'm very surprised they blew out hamilton like that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 06, 2007, 02:43:30 AM
You can say what you want about whatever but to get beat by 20 pts. what an embarassing loss for the conts.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 07, 2007, 02:48:29 PM
I second that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: pg04 on January 07, 2007, 05:30:52 PM
Maybe not as embarrassing as Brockport defeating St. Lawrence by 30 today, 102-72.   Not a good weekend for the Liberty league vs. the Golden Eagles. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 07, 2007, 09:09:02 PM
Now, that Hamilton and St. Lawrence have lost to SUNY-Brockport I am excited for them to play eachother. Clarkson is also having a great season and i can't wait to see them.

What's the story on St. Lawrence and Clarkson? They weren't that exceptional last year...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on January 08, 2007, 01:20:35 PM
i am not excited about anything hamilton does anymore. they should not lose to anyone on their schedule. hamilton players need to have some pride and stop being a bunch of bums. but check out how the minutes were distributed. tk with 16 minutes an jones with 19 minutes?. that is a sin and should result in an immediate resignation from everyone at the hamilton athletic department and a letter of a apology to all the fans for playing like **** and running a ****ty operation.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on January 08, 2007, 06:26:25 PM
Haven't seen St Lawrence but I hear they have everyone back and are relatively deep, though a 30 point loss doesn't seem to bear that out.  Clarkson is senior laden ( they only graduated one player from last years team) and they seem to have gotten more comfortable with the system that 2nd year Coach Stockwell has installed.  They have been shooting the ball well and they seem go get really hot at least once in the second half at the right time.  I agree the league could really be interesting this year.  Hamilton is probably still the favorite but St Lawrence, Clarkson and RPI could challenge.  Hobart and Union are question marks this year, while it seems that Vassar and Skidmore are rebuilding and have the potential to be dangerous.  It should and hopefully will be wide open and exciting.   Brockport must be really strong because their lone loss was to Potsdam after the Bears came back from 19 down to win I believe.  I'll be shocked if Brockport doesn't get some top 25 votes in the next poll.  They certainly deserve them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 09, 2007, 12:36:47 PM
Quote from: b4the3isme on January 03, 2007, 07:59:48 PM
Any fans out there that know why Ray Byrant did not play against Clarkson last night?  Another solid win for Clarkson.... who knows could be a sleeper...

Over on the E8 board they answered the same questions.

Quote from: John McGraw on January 07, 2007, 01:46:15 PM
Re: Ray Bryant

Utica OD story this morning says Bryant is sitting out four games to concentrate on his academics. The writer said yesterday was the second of four that he will not be playing.

The same story says that the two Hartwick starters who were not in the line-up were not playing for disciplinary reasons.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 09, 2007, 01:53:54 PM
Woot,

Apparently TK didn't practice all week or something to that effect with some type of injury. I do agree that they don't seem to playing as a team. I'm not sure I'm excited about this season either.............but we'll see what happens. Maybe they'll pull it together but the St. Lawrence loss definitely restores a little faith in the Hamilton program.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 10, 2007, 02:25:21 AM
To the person from Clarkson who tried to register -- it appears Clarkson.edu is filtering out e-mail to you. Please send me a message from the address you used to register so we can confirm this as a valid address.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: cu_bball on January 10, 2007, 09:56:48 AM
Yeah i think it is definitly filtering out emails to me...i have another email address if that would help
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 10, 2007, 11:54:47 AM
LOL, not you -- someone who tried to register yesterday for the first time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 10, 2007, 01:58:04 PM
Glad to see the start of the LL season. Hamilton beat Hobart by almost 25 points last night. Giorgi had 20 points. I don't understand why Tobin plays him so much. He's not that big and slows down the whole game. But then again that may be why he plays him. Joe Manns and Jay Simpson are some athletic gaurds with speed. I like how they play.

Thoughts about any other teams? Union beat Skidmore the other night. I'm headed back to see Hamilton play Clarkson and St. Lawrence this weekend. They should be some competitive games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 10, 2007, 08:20:47 PM
Quote from: alucardz on January 10, 2007, 01:58:04 PM
Glad to see the start of the LL season. Hamilton beat Hobart by almost 25 points last night.

Ugh.  So much for that big win over #11 Averett.

Coach Izzi's got his work cut out for himself with this squad.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 10, 2007, 08:58:13 PM
Averett isn't ranked anymore. Losing three starters to injuries meant that Averett was a long way from the team that beat Virginia Wesleyan.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 11, 2007, 12:32:20 AM
last night vassar knocked off a tough hartwick team at home despite avitable getting one shot the whole game (foul trouble). brazell and butterworth look like their both for real (20 and 15 respectively) and they combined to hold hartwicks stud (20ppg) to 1-15 from the field.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 11, 2007, 12:51:35 PM
Alucardz,

From what I can gather there are some games that Giorgi can play in and others he cannot. I think the slower paced games he can play and do well but those other games where the tempo is fast paced you won't see much of Giorgi. Those two guards for Hamilton are insane! They are as quick as anyone in the league. It seems that Hamilton is lacking some ability to shoot the ball. Should be an excellent weekend for Hamilton as they will be tested both nights.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 11, 2007, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 10, 2007, 08:58:13 PM
Averett isn't ranked anymore. Losing three starters to injuries meant that Averett was a long way from the team that beat Virginia Wesleyan.

I was basing that reference on the following press release issued by Hobart on 1/6/07:

http://www.hws.edu/athletics/hobart/showrelease.asp?id=3572
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 12, 2007, 12:11:53 AM
Yes, and I'm saying they aren't ranked anymore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gordonmann on January 12, 2007, 02:28:43 PM
FYI for the Liberty Leaguers...

Tomorrow D3hoopsNet will broadcast the showdown between Hamilton and St. Lawrence starting at 3:45 PM (1:45 PM start for the women).

Are the Saints for real and ready to take away Hamilton's status as league favorite?  Or will the Conts defend home court and take one more step toward hanging another banner in Clinton?

Check out the game on www.AllinBroadcasting.com.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: cu_bball on January 12, 2007, 11:26:42 PM
Clarkson Beats Hamilton 65-59
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 13, 2007, 12:04:36 AM
Clarkson beats Hamilton by 6 after being up by 21 in the first half. Hamilton had a second half surge that saw them come within 4 and they could have easily made it all the way back if they hadn't missed some easy layups down the stretch. Nick Jones played a great game while putting on a great press defense. Jay Simpson and Dave Alston played some good ball down the stretch for Hamilton. TK looked a little lost. It seems as if he doesn't have his head in the game right now. Didn't you guys speculate that he could be sick?

Anyways, great win for clarkson EJ Harris is good player and Youngmann is not bad as well. Hamilton needs to respond with a quick win against St. Lawrence tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on January 13, 2007, 06:40:31 PM
Hamilton continues its Jekyll and Hyde act - lose v. Clarkson and beat St. Lawrence.  They just don't seem to have any kind of consistency.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on January 13, 2007, 09:09:33 PM
TK SHOULD GET 25 SHOTS PER GAME MINIMUM, ANYTHING LESS IS A BUST
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 13, 2007, 09:51:41 PM
What's up in LL?

Hamilton loses to Clarkson, the beats St. Lawrence. St. Lawrence beats Hobart, Hobart turns around and beats Clarkson. Meanwhile, Union, 3-7 entering league play, is now 3-0 (albeit one win against Skidmore)after three league road games to start out LL play.

Does anyone know what is going on here?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on January 13, 2007, 10:35:46 PM
What's going on is a lot of mediocrity.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 15, 2007, 10:06:20 AM
Someone else said it on here and i'm going to elaborate a little further. TK is an amazing talent, no doubt but after watching about five of their games I have to tell you this....he could be the biggest waste of talent I've seen in years. He has all the ability in the world but he just doesn't have the hunger. He gets his touches each game and can score at will but for some reason that I can't explain sometimes it seems he doesn't want to do it. He is leading the team in minutes, the ball goes through him on offense, and there are many times he just doesn't get engaged. He has all-american talent with a junior high mentality. He is missing that passion or killer instinct or something. I am happy to see Nick Jones starting to play better, and I think Clarkson played their butts off and Hamilton came out flat the other night, and Clarkson is just good enough that if you don't bring your A game they will get you.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: cu_bball on January 15, 2007, 10:12:37 AM
yeah there is little consistency in the league...seems like teams are preparing for one opponent a weekend
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 15, 2007, 11:38:14 AM
Okay, so the story on TK is that he's been really sick for the past couple of weeks. He's barely been able to talk from what I've heard on campus. Most likely, he's not playing with "hunger" because he can barely eat. I think it's amazing that he's been playing so well while being so out of it.

Clarkson beat Hamilton because we came out flat and they killed us with 3 pointers in the first half. Hamilton did have the ability to win the game if they didn't screw up key possessions and miss some lay ups down the stretch. But the team could learn a lot from that loss because they now know they are capable of playing a full court press for a whole half and overtaking a 20 point deficit.

I'm really happy to see Hamilton run a full court press. I've been wondering for the past two seasons why they never implemented it when down in close games. They have consistently been forcing turnovers when in that defensive set.

On another note, there seems to be a lot parity among LL teams this year. It's surprising to see good teams lose one night to a bad team and beat a stellar team the next night.

Anybody have any thought on this? Is it because a lot of teams are carrying experienced players and very talented freshman? Or what?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 15, 2007, 02:32:58 PM
To continue on my last thought. I don't think it is a lack of consistency but just more parity among the teams. Every team in the LL has similar players and talent except for a couple top notch and bottom feeding teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 16, 2007, 10:45:19 AM
Well, Union is 3-0 -- though that can't last -- and a big part of that is the play of Nick DiMaggio, a freshman guard who's been lighting it up. I don't know his numbers, I just knwo he's been the high scorer the last few games.

The Dutchmen also have been getting good play from senior guard Joe Mackey and junior center Kyle Grimm. But Union has few players with experience, the latter two guys having the most.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on January 16, 2007, 03:35:39 PM
Any predictions for tonights game?

I got St. Lawrence over Clarkson and Vassar over RPI in a nail bitter.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: cu_bball on January 16, 2007, 09:52:13 PM
SLU made Clarkson look bad tonight.....Clarkson ran the same play over and over with the same results...nothing...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 17, 2007, 03:20:44 AM
vassar smacks rpi 63-51. wasnt as close as the score says. when vassar as someone else scorin (tonight butterworth went for 18) they are going to be tough to beat. also, neil wesson may be the most overrated player in the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on January 17, 2007, 12:45:53 PM
I agree... If St. Lawrence and Clarkson aren't careful, Vassar could come out with two wins this weekend away from home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 17, 2007, 03:29:28 PM
definently agree there. vassar always shoots well in st lawrences gym, and this is the best shooting team vassar has ever had. vassar - clarkson games the past few years have been lowscoring slugfests, and i wouldnt expect any different this year.

this weekend is a huge opportunity for vassar to make a statement in the LL. expect them to come out fired up and ready to play both nights.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on January 17, 2007, 04:50:28 PM
I'm not quite ready to jump on the Vassar bandwagon yet.  Their wins have come against teams with a combined records of 40 wins and 69 losses.  Their best win to me looks to be over RPI who is 8-6.  There is an opportunity for a mindset adjustment this weekend but I believe it will be unlikely that Vassar will win 2. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 17, 2007, 07:06:12 PM
Same here... Not on the bandwagon. I know most of the seniors from their team and I don't buy into it. They don't have a winning mentality. Without that they won't get that far even in the Liberty League.

I'm glad to see SLU rebounded from the loss against Hamilton to beat Clarkson the other night. SLU is a solid team this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on January 17, 2007, 11:51:51 PM
the curse of the liberty league rookie of the year continues.

2003-2004: Tk & Jones --->bust
2004-2005: Lawrence Avitable ---->bust
2005-2006: Bela Vonnek ---> Bust so far
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 18, 2007, 12:49:58 AM
woot i definently agree with what you were sayin about vassar, and they havent beaten anyone, but they did take washington u to the wire (now #12 at d3hoops.com). also, they may be the worst coached team in the conference, it always seems other teams are muhc more prepared in their game plans.

the point i was makin is that i think this year may be the team that breaks the losing mentality. theres plenty of talent on the team this year, its just a matter of whether or not coach dutton can do something with it.

one more thing, avitable is not a bust. he almost averages a double double while being top 5 in the conference in steals, blocks and assists. o by the way he shoots 66% from the field. yea, hes a bust.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 18, 2007, 12:44:54 PM
Woot it seems that you have some pent up aggression and rage towards most of the teams and kids in the LL. What happened?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 18, 2007, 07:12:58 PM
From what I can gather is woot has some anger regarding Hamilton and it comes out quite a bit when things don't go exactly right. I mean to say TK is a bust is silly-yes i've said some things about TK and his lack of passion but never anything about his skills, and Jones as well. Neither one of those guys are busts, they can be  two of the top five players in the league (on most nights, some nights not so much).   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 18, 2007, 07:22:57 PM
I hear ya.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 19, 2007, 05:17:12 PM
not banking on it, but hopefully bart gets their 3rd win in a row tonight vs. the skidz.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on January 19, 2007, 10:08:55 PM
Hamilton 79 - Union 59
Hobart 69 - Skidmore 54
No real surprises there
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 19, 2007, 10:19:43 PM
Hamilton won by 20 without TK. That's good to see.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on January 19, 2007, 10:34:48 PM
illness?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 19, 2007, 10:45:52 PM
VC wins on a buzzer beater by butterworth in OT at st lawrence. huge win for the brewers bouncing back from a 13 point halftime deficit.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on January 19, 2007, 11:21:26 PM
Thus far my prediction was right, got a win tonight at St. Lawrence... I am telling you don't sleep on the Brewers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: John McGraw on January 20, 2007, 12:07:56 AM
Lots of Brews make me sleep, does that count?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 20, 2007, 10:14:37 AM
That's a good win for Vassar. But I'm not buying it until they bang out a couple more wins and sit atop the league standings. Let's see how they do against Clarkson today.

TK was most likely out due to illness or maybe Tobin wanted to sit him because they were playing weaker LL teams this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 20, 2007, 10:33:43 AM
Hamilton wins by 20 without TK, now that is a good win, along with a Clarkson and St. Larw loses. I heard that TK wasn't even on the bench. What is the deal now with TK? This make sound stupid and if so don't blast me but perhaps Hamilton could possibly be a better "team" without TK playing? Could the season be better off without him? He just seems to be so up and down and in and out as far as playing. Last year it was the same thing. Granted he has all american talent so why would they be better without him? I know it doesn't sound right but god either play a season or don't. Hamilton has enough players to win ball games. If someone knows more about this situation let me know. I'm not sold on Clarkson St. Law or Vassar- time will tell.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 20, 2007, 01:49:29 PM
predictions for this afternoon - VC over clarkson is a nailbiter, union bounces back to beat hobart, stl lawrence wins handily over rpi, and skidmore beats the spread and loses by 45 to hamilton
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 20, 2007, 02:57:43 PM
I see where you are going with the Hamilton may play better without TK. A definite argument can be made because of the recruits that Tobin has brought in. Tobin's recruits are fast paced, athletic, and lean players. Giorgi and TK along with some others are much slower but capable of scoring. I think the type of game that Tobin would like to see his team play is more conducive without TK.

On the other hand, TK makes Hamilton a team to beat. He has All-American talent and takes Hamilton to the next level when they are in close games. He's able to take it to the hoop at will. In the last 5 games it's hard to see that because TK hasn't been himself with an illness of some sort. By the end of the season the whole team will mesh. The fast paced offense and full court trap defense will blend with TK's aggressiveness and Hamilton will be a much better team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 20, 2007, 06:27:47 PM
Hamilton loses at Skidmore in OT 84-88... ugh!
Hobart loses at Union 72-85
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 20, 2007, 07:40:46 PM
Skidmore beats Hamilton? WTF? I take back any comments about being better than anybody without TK, becuz clearly this Hamilton team has some serious freaking issues! I'm borderline speechless!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on January 20, 2007, 07:52:55 PM
That's easily Hamilton's worst loss in the 12 or so years I've followed them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on January 20, 2007, 08:11:22 PM
Mean while Vassar sweeps this weekend at Clarkson and St. Lawrence.  Any believers yet?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 20, 2007, 10:40:18 PM
keep sleepin on vassar. two ot wins on the longest road trip of the season. sounds like a winning attitude to me. these hamilton fans hatin on the brewers need to focus on their own teams issues.

anyone familiar with the hamilton program can answer this question for me - I haven't seen any hamilton games yet this year, but twice they have been down 20 points in conference and made a comeback pressing all over the court. Why dont they play this style the whole game?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 20, 2007, 11:14:38 PM
To let you guys know. TK wasn't out of the Union and Skidmore games because of an illness. Apparently, his back is hurt pretty bad and Tobin didn't want him to go on the road trip. Instead he wanted him to rest it this weekend and take it off.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 20, 2007, 11:20:48 PM
Vassar is starting to look legit after these last two games. I'm buying it now.

...and I don't know why Hamilton doesn't full court press all game. They lay down the press and force turnovers pretty well when they set up that D. Who knows? Maybe after this last loss they might start playing the press all the time. I think it'd be smart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 21, 2007, 01:56:26 AM
I know this for fact, Hamilton presses for 40 minutes, they don't press here or there and drop back from time to time. IF anyone knows anything about Anderson he presses the entire time. I think if you look at the stats of this game further you will see some borderline insanity. This game should be looked at in a way that should blow anyone who posts/reads anything on this website. It took me a minute and actually I double checked this with two sites.......apparently Hamilton out-rebounded Skid and get this and someone other than me might want to verify this but from what I can see took 84 shots to skidmore's 44!!!! IF this is correct and i think that it is it would mean that Hamilton took 40 more shots than skidmore and still lost the game. 40 more shots, this has got to peak some interest in even the most passive fan. I sit here right now and cannot believe that stat. it is mind boggling! Tell me i'm insane.

back to the press, I think that Hamilton players have little to no heart and only play hard when they absolutely have to. There I said it and also I'm beginning to believe in Vassar, ok? Great weekend for them and the conversation should be what the flying hell happened to Clarkson, they went from hey conference leaders to 1-4 probably sealing their fate in being out of the conference tournament, all in five games. Interesting

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 21, 2007, 09:01:19 AM
Nice stat shooters. I saw the 84-44 FG attempts and was astounded that they lost considering the FG % comparisons weren't glaring.

Also, if they full court press the whole game and I'm not seeing it.  Hamilton must be really bad about implementing it in the first half. Which could be an argument for how Hamilton starts out slow. But compared to the press I see Hamilton play in the first half I've seen better full court presses in some high school games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 21, 2007, 09:03:19 AM
Actually, the FG% were lopsided. Skidmore with 61.4% of shots made and Hamilton 38.1% of shots made.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on January 21, 2007, 11:20:16 AM
Regarding what happened to Clarkson?

I saw Clarkson last week.  Rigg-Reeves, their starting PG was on the bench in civvies.  I believe he's hurt.  He and EJ Harrison make a strong athletic guard combo, but there is a serious drop off in guard quality after them.  It showed against SLU, and continues to show by their weekend results.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on January 21, 2007, 12:42:06 PM
i dont want to say i told you so shooters, but yeh. hamilton will suffer some great losses this year with tobin at the helm.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 21, 2007, 09:25:44 PM
Woot,

I've been patiently waiting for your comments regarding the Hamilton loss, but you can't pin this one on Tobin, He didn't have lifeless TK or his guard Alston. I can pin this on the lack of shooters or shooting that occurred however and that is basically the recruiting/players which is his responsibility. Thanks for the update on the TK situation, but how can TK have back problems, he doesn't play hard enough to pull any muscles. I agree that the loss is a disaster, and that no one can argue. Did you see the stats of the game? Hamilton shot 40 more shots- how is that even possible? One more bad loss (and I don't consider the Clarkson loss a bad one) then I will bow down to your wisdom on Hamilton and their season. Should be interesting to see what happens w/ Williams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 22, 2007, 12:27:16 AM
Did you ever think that TK wasn't playing hard enough because his back hurt in the first place? It wasn't noticeable to you that his scoring dropped by about 10 points a game and his rebounds fell by 5 after the first few games?

Don't be hating on TK.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: cu_bball on January 22, 2007, 12:07:30 PM
Quote from: thebear on January 21, 2007, 11:20:16 AM
Regarding what happened to Clarkson?

I saw Clarkson last week.  Rigg-Reeves, their starting PG was on the bench in civvies.  I believe he's hurt.  He and EJ Harrison make a strong athletic guard combo, but there is a serious drop off in guard quality after them.  It showed against SLU, and continues to show by their weekend results.



Brandon Rigg-Reives has been hurt for about 4 weeks now with a miniscus problem occuring in practice..also hurt is freshman Waryn  McCullough who was a big presence earlier in the year sparking a few 2nd half comebacks...so clarkson has lost the speed and defense of Rigg-Reives and the rebounding and scoring ablility of Waryn  McCullough of the bench that complemented second year/first year player Elson Pickering
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 22, 2007, 12:37:12 PM
Don't be hating on TK? Suit up and play or sit out and get better but dont' play 1/2 ass. And i'm not judging TK on these past couple of weeks I'm talking about his entire career. He should be averaging 25 and 10 period. He did this same crap last year, played well then decided not to play for awhile then he'll come back and play well again. I've been to many Hamilton games this year and the ones where he is "hurt" he's made some athletic plays, i.e. a steal and full court dunk........he's injuries are all upstairs in my medical opinion, but we shall see.

And I think TK has more talent than anyone so its not that i don't think he can play.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 22, 2007, 01:34:52 PM
has anyone else noticed that all hamiltons fans do is hate on their team on these message boards? do you guys even like one person on the team?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 22, 2007, 02:35:40 PM
Yes I tend to hate, I will try and refrain going forward. I just expect perfection as do many other Hamilton posters on here and whether I start the negative or not I certainly join in. I will try and keep my opinions positive but at 10-4 so far i don't see a lot of daylight. We will see if a good win at Williams and a weekend sweep can put me in a better mood. Plus I hate it when woot is right!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 22, 2007, 07:59:40 PM
Shooters I get your points and appreciate your passion. Last year, it was hard for TK to coexist with Welchons at the point and throwing up shots at will. I think what the team is missing most is someone like Staunton Peck, a banger who can do everything up and down the court. Also, he was the only one to follow his shot and look for an offensive rebound on last year's team.

I hate on Hamilton because if I don't there's really not much to talk about. I can't just sit back and only praise my team. That would just be boring and redundant.

To talk about what Hamilton has been doing right lately is easy. Tobin has been getting the freshman a lot more involved. I like the way Dave Alston and Jay Simpson have been picking up their games. Joe Manns has been a little bit jumpy of late and missed a couple of easy buckets. Tim Shaw has been a key player in the last few home games. He shoots the ball well and with his long body is capable of forcing turnovers when Hamilton is running the full court press.

Nick Jones has been picking up his game of late but he's still shooting an abysmal 55% from the free-throw line. Harlee Wood has been committing lots of fouls and needs to be a little less physical. But Harlee Wood has been Hamilton's most improved player this season by far. I like the way he's been playing.

One thing about the Skidmore loss this weekend. Not only did Hamilton out shoot Skidmore by 40 field goals but they also went 9 of 20 from the free throw line.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 22, 2007, 08:05:31 PM
Now to talk about the other teams in the Liberty League.

Vassar is looking like the most improved team this season. Avitabile is definitely first-team All LL.

St. Lawrence is also on the upper tier of LL teams.

I'd say that Hamilton, SLU, and Vassar are the teams to beat this year.

It looks to me like Union's (4-1) conference start is a fluke. What do you think?

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 22, 2007, 08:10:12 PM
Another interesting fact about Vassar, 3 of there 4 losses are to good teams.

L, 74-79 Washington U (14-1)
L, 72-84 Babson (10-6)
L, 69-78 Manhattanville (12-4)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 22, 2007, 10:10:55 PM
alucardz,

I would agree that Union's start is a fluke and would also agree with most of what you have said. The thing I like about Wood is he plays with a passion. If you see Jones and Wood play, they are both very emotional and care a lot about what is going on. They are aggressive (Jones especially of late) and don't sit back and wait for things to happen. I love Simpson at the point and Alston is extremely good as well. I just don't get it with the line up of Wood-Jones-TK-Simpson-Alston they don't beat everyone by 20 pts. I guess part of it is that isn't the line up and TK and Alston have been hurt. I like Ray ray as well coming off the bench. Manns will be a stud before it is over. Also look the free throw percentages for the entire team, there is no reason that it should be THAT bad! I think it shows the kind of commitment or lack there of the players have toward the game. 9-20, if I had a team that shot under 50% they'd be running lines from 6am til 6pm. No excuse for those kind of numbers. I loved Peck and think if we had a couple pecks out there we'd be rolling right along. I also agree with the boards are no fun without a little argument. I kind of rambled on this post but you get the idea.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 22, 2007, 10:38:01 PM
id agree with what you say about the top teams. vassar and slu seem the most comsistent - you know what your going to get from them, and theyll play anybody tough. id say hamilton is the most tanlented but inconsistentst team (obvioously). i think union can beat anybody on any night with their ability to shoot, and i think clarkson can also knock any one in the conference off, if healthy.

what intrigues me most about the conference this year is the parody. 1-7 can all win on any given night, and after skidmores performance saturday.....  its gonna be a fun year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 22, 2007, 11:34:59 PM
indeed, it will be fun year.
Title: Top Team in Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 22, 2007, 11:42:14 PM
I am curious to what the board thinks about who the best team is in the conference. Especially, with how the first several games have exhibited a lot of parity among the teams this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 22, 2007, 11:46:02 PM
I created a poll to see what team you guys think is the best in the conference this year. Follow the link and vote!!

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5066.0 (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5066.0)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on January 23, 2007, 04:08:53 PM
alucardz- how can you ask us to vote after this weekend???  Hamilton loses to Skidz, Vassar sweeps up north in nailbiters, Clarkson in a free fall, who knows maybe Union is the best of the league?!.  I just know that I'm waiting for another weekend b4 I vote.  If Vassar continues its strong showing I may be on that bandwagon but this is the most wide open I've seen this league in a great while!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 23, 2007, 05:28:04 PM
Exactly, that's why I want to know what you guys think after this wacky weekend of games. There's no clear team that's above the rest.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 23, 2007, 05:31:14 PM
Oh, and I forgot to say that Hamilton plays Williams tonight. Let's see how they do...

My prediction is that it's going to be a close game and either team could win.

Anyone else in action today?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 23, 2007, 06:44:04 PM
My prediction is Williams by 10. Unless TK plays then Williams by 10

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 23, 2007, 09:19:30 PM
Williams wins by 2 63-61
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on January 24, 2007, 06:35:25 AM
Hamilton played as bad as possible for the first 25-30 minutes, down 38-21 in early second half - TK didn't make the trip.  Then they suddenly started to play and tied it at 61, only to give up a layup on an inbounds play with 2 seconds on the shot clock and 9 seconds in the game.  They are truly a poor team in the half court offense and besides a few streaky periods, really struggle to put the ball in the basket, despite being vastly more athletic than Williams and killing them on the boards. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on January 24, 2007, 06:11:40 PM
you are prob waiting for me to say something but i wont.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on January 24, 2007, 06:41:17 PM
Here comes the weekend of truth.  Union travels north to take on SLU and Clarkson while Hamilton travels & takes on RPI & Vassar.  If Vassar sweeps this weekend I'm officially on board the bandwagon.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 24, 2007, 08:32:43 PM
I'm with you. If Vassar wins out through this weekend they'll be the team to beat in the Liberty League.

Does anyone else find it weird that a school that was originally a women's college could be the top team in the Liberty League?

Who do you think is going to make the tournament?

I'm putting my money on St. Lawrence, Vassar, Hamilton, and either Clarkson or RPI. I think Union starting (4-1) is a fluke in my book.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 24, 2007, 09:08:36 PM
I was looking through some team stats on the NCAA website. Thought you might find some of these interesting.

St. Lawrence has the 8th ranked Field-Goal Percentage Defense in the nation at 37.6%. New York U. leads the nation at 34.2%.

St. Lawrence is also 4th in Blocked Shots per game at 5.8 a game. Gettysburg leads the nation with 6.8.

Vassar has the 12th best rebound margin at 7.9 per game. New York U. leads the nation with 13.1 more boards a game than their opponents.

This is out of the 380 D-III basketball teams.

Check it out for yourself:http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/ranksummary (http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/ranksummary)



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 24, 2007, 10:42:38 PM
Interesting stats Hoaf, however, sad to say neither of those teams besides maybe NYU will do any damage in the NCAA.  Most of those stats are against bad teams.  For comparison, if you did D1 stats, im sure some of the better small conference schools have better stats then the big conference schools.  Gives no indication on how good a team is in comparison to the rest of the country.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 24, 2007, 11:43:24 PM
No, I know that. I just thought you guys would want that tad of info.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 25, 2007, 10:46:45 AM
I think St. Law and Hamilton are locks. There is no way Clarkson does anything in the tournament, they won't even be in the Liberty League tournament, that is pretty much a lock at this point. My prediction is Hamilton is back to championship form this weekend w/ TK and they sweep the weekend and shut up this Vassar is god talk. BUT if they don't then I might even jump on the Vassar bandwagon.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 25, 2007, 11:14:19 AM
i could sit here and argue with you for hours about whether vassar or hamilton is better, but just look at the records. their only loss is to the team they are in a first place tie with in the LL, and their other three losses are to Wash. U. (#12 in the country) and Babson at the opening tournament of the season at Babson, and to a very underrated manhattanville team on the road. hamilton lost to skidmore .... SKIDMORE.

now that ive run my mouth, im really hopin vassar steps up and sweeps this weekend. should be a great game against hamilton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 25, 2007, 02:06:29 PM
buckets,

no need to argue, we will get the answer Saturday evening, correct? I promise Vassar is going to get a much needed and deserved smacking! Yes we lost to Skidmore, and yes its hard for me to even type that.....but we're talking about Vassar, Vassar.........Vassar? If they win then I'll jump on the bandwagon, but lets all get serious here, I will find it hard to believe that Hamilton will lose to Clarkson, Skidmore and Vassar all in the same season! Let the fun begin!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on January 25, 2007, 03:29:00 PM
If it were a perfect world and to make it really interesting...  Hamilton beats Vassar and Union loses to both Clarkson and SLU. Everybody with 2 losses minimum and let the fun begin, but that being said I think Union splits up north beating Clarkson and losing to SLU and Vassar nips Hamilton at home forcing me reluctantly to jump on the Vassar bandwagon.  In terms of the tournament Vassar, SLU, Hamilton in then a dog fight between RPI, Union, and Clarkson (particularly if Clarkson gets healthy).  Clarkson does need to win twice this weekend to right the ship.  Game against Union is huge for them.  Think they'll be able to hold off Skidmore on Sat. at home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on January 25, 2007, 06:00:24 PM
im a hamilton fan, but im rooting for vassar to win this game. Hamilton doesnt deserve to be in the tournament after losing to skidmore. sorry to be negative, but i dont understand why teams with a long standing history of winning like hamiloton dont hold their coaches and various programs accounatble. given it is dIII, but when hamilton plays st. john fisher in the ncaa tournament, it is a dI atmosphere. coaches need to be held accounatbel by their athletic directors for losing and inner-team turmoil. i dont like how most d3 coaches coach at the same program for minimum 15 years even if they run a mediocre program or run a program where players and coaches are continually fighting. I know the top programs in d1, coaches will get fired if they do not perform year after year or are strongly disliked by players.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on January 25, 2007, 06:38:14 PM
Agreed Woot, there are a number of bad coaches in the E8 that year in and year out do not bring their teams to maximum potential, but yet, never get fired.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 25, 2007, 07:08:19 PM
Quote from: Hoaf on January 24, 2007, 08:32:43 PM
Does anyone else find it weird that a school that was originally a women's college (Vassar) could be the top team in the Liberty League?

Nope - TGP imagines that the high ratio of women to men was a BIG factor in helping out recruiting great players into their program!

::)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 25, 2007, 07:36:12 PM
You think. From my frequent visits to campus. I thought it there was more of the lesbian crowd than straight available women.

Although, a friend of mine has been with a Vassar basketball boy at one point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 25, 2007, 10:29:42 PM
I agree, and I think at Hamilton after I would say a five year period there will be changes if something bad should happen. Again Hamilton will win the league fihish very high and their coach hasn't even had a full amount of time to get his own recruits. He is in his third year and led them to a what 20-5 record in his second year.  Don't quote me on their record last year but it was good including a 30 pt. blowout in conference final. I can be very opinionated but let a coach get his own players in, and i'm not talking about just Hamilton I'm talking in general. Like Clarkson, Hobart, etc. etc. those guys need a good 5-6 years before you can blame the program or the direction of the program on them. And if you want to talk about bad attitudes or playing sub-standard ball go watch Hamilton. It isn't the coaching or the talent its something in between. Personally I think its a tug of war between the players who were there before and the players who Anderson recruited. Once that weeds out i think you will see a better program. Its a theory, not a fact. I just can't see why Hamilton can't win.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 26, 2007, 12:05:07 AM
Good point shooters. I like what you said about getting your own recruits in. I think that's very important to gauge coaching ability. But I don't know if I agree with you about why Hamilton has been playing so poorly.

I think it's mostly just mental. The reason they aren't winning games is that they are playing freshman guards. Tim Welchons gave Hamilton one of their best records in the program history. He was a senior and his leadership and in-game knowledge allowed gave what it needed to win close games. The games that have gotten away from the team this year. I think Jay Simpson and Dave Alston will be great guards in the future but I don't think they are at the same caliber as Welchons was at the point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 26, 2007, 11:04:45 AM
I agree with the fact Hamilton is starting two freshmen and that is part of the problem, experience. I would also say really this team is quite young and that plays a part as well. You have TK, Jones, and Rogers being the only seniors and out of those three there really isn't a team leader. Welchons was that stable force last year. Most of the players are either freshmen or soph. and they will be dangerous as time goes on. I think this team will get better as the year goes on, I know it does seem like it, but that is what i am thinking. I agree that it really is all mental!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on January 26, 2007, 12:03:12 PM
any one know if TK is coming back tonight?  Will he be playing this weekend?  If he is out, this makes this weekend a big one for everyone in the LL
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 26, 2007, 12:17:40 PM
TK is back! I don't know how much he'll play but he will be with the team. I never did hear what his injury was, i think someone on here said a back problem or something.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 26, 2007, 12:43:26 PM
two things: 1 it is ABSOLUTELY not the women that attract players to vassar unless you have a thing for girls with hairy legs. 50% of the guys there are more feminine than most girls.

2. back to basketball, vassar gets lenny holt back tonight from some type of foot or ankle injury (he was in a boot for a while). he started the first few games for vassar before he got hurt. regardless, the little kid with the fro has been playing very well in his place (knockin down threes and taking care of the ball), but they will need holts size to match up with the big guards form hamilton.

tonights predictions? I got clarkson, st lawrence, and vassar defendin home courts, while hamilton goes in and takes their frustrations out on rpi.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 26, 2007, 02:41:53 PM
I agree with 3 of your 4 buckets. I think, though, that Union will be able to get by Clarkson, which has been off its game. Though that outcome could be impacted by the notorious North Country refs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on January 26, 2007, 03:46:16 PM
I also heard it was a back problem for TK and that he supposed to be back tonight - don't know how fully recovered it is though
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on January 26, 2007, 03:50:15 PM
Be Nice

The notorious North Country refs, as you speak, are usually from Syracuse or Utica. 

There are less than a handful of college qualified MBB referees who actually live in Northern NY.

Whoever we get, it's typically no joy for the home team either.

Tough job.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 26, 2007, 05:41:46 PM
To be fair, I haven't actually been to a North Country game in about 4 years, but I know back then there were some absolutely brutal calls toward the end of the game that did not negatively impact the home team. So, that was my basis.

Things certainly could have changed by now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 26, 2007, 10:21:17 PM
Vassar beats Hobart 66-49.  Tyson Brazell with 16 points on 7 of 8 shooting for VC and Lawrence Avitabile adds 14 points and 16 boards.  Mike Manning with 11 for Hobart.

Hamilton over RPI 68-54 despite Neal Wesson's 28 and 7.  Jay Simpson leads Hamilton with 14.

St. Lawrence over Skidmore 71-55.  Very balanced Saints have nobody in double figures and win anyway.

Union nips Clarkson 75-71.  No box yet.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 26, 2007, 10:40:29 PM
dont forget 6 blocks for avitable, and thats only the ones he got credit for.  vassar's defense has been really impressive of late, holdin rpi to 51, hobart to 49, clarkson to 62 in ot. 

three great matchups in tomorrows game against hamilton - avitabile vs tk (if healthy), maybe the two best players in the conference. brazell vs. nick jones. and kieffer vs. giorgi - maybe the two fattest/slowest players in d3 basketball.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 27, 2007, 02:06:13 AM
it looks like Nick Jones did not play for Hamilton. I don't know any reason why he wouldn't play but coming off a 23pt. game I find it odd. Can anyone elaborate on what is going on here? We get TK back and lose Jones, no offense but i'd rather have jones right now the way he is playing than TK who had a solid night w/ six points in 35 minutes of action.  Tk should be scoring six points off rebounds alone. Someone please update me on Nick Jones!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on January 27, 2007, 03:34:02 PM
nick jones of hamilton is out for the year with a torn mcl
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 27, 2007, 06:01:22 PM
Hamilton beats Vassar at Vassar this afternoon behind a solid performance from TK. Nick Jones did not play but he also did not tear his MCL as stated earlier. He will not miss the rest of the season and should be back in a week.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 27, 2007, 09:15:02 PM
Clarkson and St. Lawrence both won today, defeating Skidmore and Union, respectively. St. Lawrence's win gives the LL a logjam at the top, with four teams (St.L, Union, Hamilton and Vassar) all at 5-2 in the league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 28, 2007, 11:13:45 PM
nice win for hamilton w/out nick jones. vassar couldnt handle the press down the stretch after leadin the whole game. looks like no leads are gonna be safe against hamilton this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 28, 2007, 11:33:46 PM
Great weekend for Hamilton Basketball. By not having Nick Jones around the team pulling out two solid wins and probably gained a lot of confidence. I'm glad TK sat out for a week of basketball. His back seemed all bettern after getting the rust off during the RPI game  by rebounding with huge numbers (23 points, 14 rebounds) against Vassar. Also, Hamilton held Avitabile to 8 points. Glad to see the turn around this weekend. It tells you how much Hamilton needs TK.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on January 30, 2007, 02:15:09 PM
Thank God I don't have to jump on the Vassar bandwagon just yet. Who wants to root for team that touts girls with hairy legs as a recruitment factor.  Union is not as bad as a thought.  They have some good young guards that can get hot.  I'd say after this weekend that SLU, Hamilton and probably Vassar are in.  Union is in the drivers seat for the 4th spot by virtue of their close win at Clarkson, but of the teams with the 5-2 record I believe that they are the only team that come back to RPI and Clarkson.  Clarkson plays good defense but their offense was anemic.  Their best players seem to have loss their offensive intensity and instead seem content to pass the ball around the perimeter hoping to get open rather than wanting to get open.  If Clarkson can go 5-2 in the second half and finish .500 they just might sneak into the league tournament and hence get a ECAC bid based on their strong early wins.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on January 30, 2007, 06:54:53 PM
0.01% chance that skidmore wins on friday at hamilton
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 30, 2007, 07:08:04 PM
I'm with you woot. There's no way Skidmore's going to walk out of the field house with win. I'd like to see Hamilton avenge there loss by pouring in 85 points and blowing them out by 40. There's no way Hamilton is going to shoot as poorly as they did the first time around.

After this coming weekend we'll be able to see more clearly who the Liberty League front runner is.

Also, speaking to the poll I created. Do you guys really think Vassar is the team to beat this year?

C'MON!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 30, 2007, 11:26:32 PM
Oh and Nick Jones sprained his MCL. He should be back soon.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on January 31, 2007, 11:37:41 AM
Based on Skidmore's 41-point drubbing at the hands of Union last night (93-52), I would be shocked if Skidmore even came within 20 points of Hamilton, despite the last game between the two.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 01, 2007, 02:03:48 PM
So any team news this week. The board has been rather hush hush lately.

I expect Hamilton to sweep this weekend versus Skidmore and Union. I think that Union's start this year has been rather a fluke. They lost to a lot of mediocre teams early in the season and I don't think they are the real deal.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 01, 2007, 03:24:05 PM
this may sound a little stupid but i can't wait for the skidmore hamilton game. I think this game will set the tone for the rest of the season for Hamilton. I think they'll beat the crap out of them but if they don't then I think there are questions to be answered as to how far this team can go. I also think this game will show if Hamilton wants to show some heart and self respect and beat them like a drum.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on February 01, 2007, 03:27:31 PM
As I do recall, I was getting hounded by almost everyone here on this board after calling Clarkson's guards inconsistent and overrated. Well, look at where we stand now, the Golden Knights are struggling big time and probably will not make the league tourney.

Everyone, please pat me on the back for my glaring observation (I hope you realize this whole post is full of sarcasm).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3lifer on February 02, 2007, 07:09:41 AM
Well people may still feel that Union is having an unexpected run that will stop any day now....and that may happen but too say that there schedule has been mediocre I think is a little strong...

Lasell 11-7 (8-1)
Middlebury 12-7 (2-3)
Williams 10-10 ( 3-2)
D1 Wagner
Gettysburg 7-11 (5-7) agree with this one!
Randolph Macon 11-8 (6-6)
Bates 16-3 (2-3)

Those were the losses heading into the league I agree with the agree with the Gettysburg loss wasn't great however Lasell is the best in their league while not a great league, not a bad loss with basically six freshmen getting heavy minutes, and three losses to "mediocre" NESCAC teams would probably all have a chance in this years liberty league, D1 Wagner well that doesn't make sense along with the Randolph Macon team that again plays in traditionally one of the better leagues in the country at this level.

Granted their is a long way to go but I would say they played one of the stronger non-conference schedules than some of the other teams in the league and so far those experiences have paid dividends to this point in the league (6-2).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 02, 2007, 09:55:17 AM
I don't know if I agree with any of that as far as Union goes. Since when is a team 12-7, 11-8 reflect a strong team and a solid non-conference schedule. I don't think Middlebury is that good, the only good point is Bates, otherwise I would object to much of the rest. They may get the fourth spot in the tournament but i would say it will be a quick exit for Montana and the team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3lifer on February 02, 2007, 11:14:27 AM
The NESCAC and ODAC are better basketball leagues top to bottom on a year to year basis than the Empire 8 and Liberty League. I am not saying that those are good records but the quality of teams is definitely different just my opinion obviously, we are not talking about them playing the any of the Wisco teams or anything but to say that it is a weak schedule is not true based on some of the other teams non conference schedules in the Liberty League. We agree to disagree. Fair enough!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 02, 2007, 11:16:01 AM
I'm with you shooter, just because a team is a little over .500 doesn't mean it's a good team.

Now if you make the argument that Union's freshman guards hadn't come into their own yet. I might buy that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on February 02, 2007, 12:02:39 PM
what does everyone think at the halfway point???

Player of the 1st half?
Rookie of the 1st half?
Coach of the 1st half?

What team will fall from the top 4 & what team will come up from the bottom?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3lifer on February 02, 2007, 12:45:24 PM
Well anyway my last reply to the subject strength of conference was a point I was trying to make and by no means was I saying that because they over .500 that they were good, just simply refuting that it was a week schedule.

On to other topics,

Player of 1st half: TK
Rookie of 1st half: not sure
Coach of 1st half: Chris Downs

Vassar might be the the on to fall, but that may only come down to coaching. They do have a group of players though that play well together and have for a couple of years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 02, 2007, 01:09:39 PM
Bart's LL freefall looks likely to continue tonight vs. Union.  It just doesn't seem like Coach Izzy has the talent to compete with most teams in the league.

However, Bart did sweep the series last season against the Pass the Dutchies on the Left Hand side......but that was last year, not this year.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 02, 2007, 03:23:43 PM
Player of the 1st half: TK I guess, but not by much
Rookie of 1st half: guard from Skidmore
Coach of 1st half: Mike Dutton (how can you go against this team's turnaround?)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on February 02, 2007, 03:50:11 PM
A few things: b4the3isme you are gonna wish that you jumped on the Vassar bandwagon.  Hamilton was lucky to escape Poughkeepsie with a win.  The brewers lead the entire game and only lost because several calls did not go their way including a three point shot the hamilton made with under 3 minutes in the game even though it clearly hit off the 24 second clock.  Secondly, what a wuss that Hamilton coach is.  It is widely known that going to Hamilton is a difficult place to play but you do not see coaches complaining about the fans.  However, when Hamilton enters a raucous gym, the coach complains the entire game about the support the vassar fans where showing their team.  Third, TK is no joke... without him Hamilton would be nothing.  Fourth, with two more wins this weekend Vassar will prove that they are the class of the league dispite all you doubters.  Lastly, Mike Dutton as coach of the year?  I do not think so, he is just blessed with exceptional talent but in terms of x's and o's he is nothing special.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on February 02, 2007, 04:08:51 PM
dd22 - I'm not on there yet...  the Vassar bandwagon yet, that is...  The team that seems to fly under the radar on this map is SLU.  When all the smoke clears I'm of the belief that SLU and Hamilton are the top two and I'm not sure which one is the top dog.  Union is pretty good but not league champion material and Vassar hasn't proven themselves to me totally yet.  If I had to pick a team that backs up it would be Union and a sleeper to sneak into the 4th spot might be RPI.  Clarkson after a promising start in its non-league schedule is stick a fork in them done unless they sweep the table which is unlikely since they only have two home games left. Hobart is too inconsistent to climb and unless something divine happens Skidmore will do well to climb out of the cellar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 02, 2007, 05:17:13 PM
Gonna check out the SLU-Vassar game tomorrow afternoon as part of a Po-Town doubleheader before heading across town to the Marist game.  Will report back with thoughts on the Saints and Brewers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: clearconceit on February 03, 2007, 08:54:21 AM
The Coach of the year is Bob Montana.  Period!
He does more with less talet year in and year out than anyone else.  He could take his x's and beat your o's, and then take your o's and beat his x's.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 03, 2007, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: clearconceit on February 03, 2007, 08:54:21 AM
The Coach of the year is Bob Montana.  Period!
He does more with less talet year in and year out than anyone else.  He could take his x's and beat your o's, and then take your o's and beat his x's.



I have to agree clear. Looking at how many players Union had to replace with freshman and seeing the Dutchmen at 7-2 in the league right now, I'd have to give him the nod.

Of course, that could change if everything comes crashing down the rest of the way. Union's got a tough one today — at Hamilton — plus still games against St. Lawrence and Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 03, 2007, 05:58:30 PM
Ok I will go with Montana but his teams seem to beat up on the little guys and he doesn't seem to be able to get the big wins in the league. His team got drilled by 40 last year in the conference finals. I mean it just seems his teams are just good enough to make it interesting. And as far as talent and coaching goes who gets the credit for getting the recruits? Vassar and Dutton have good players and if he is average coach and gets above average talent and wins games does that equate to being a good coach? I would like to think so. Its like Montana, ok he doesn't have much talent but finds a way to make it competitive, well if he can't recruit good players then how good of a coach is he? I dont know just some thoughts. Hamilton wins in a close game over Montana this afternoon, so its a two horse race w/ St. Lawrence and Hamilton for the top spot. I am still awaiting a vassar score.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on February 03, 2007, 06:15:43 PM
Got a score on that Hamilton/Union game?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on February 03, 2007, 06:17:46 PM
nevermind - 63-58 Hamilton
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 03, 2007, 06:57:33 PM
Glad I went to the Larries-Vassar game today, excellent ending.  SLU wins 83-81 in OT as Tom Wopperer hits a 3 with 3.1 seconds left in regulation to tie it and freshman PG Josh Sharlow sliced through the Vassar defense for the winning bucket with 8 seconds left in OT.  VC couldnt get a shot off at the buzzer.  Sharlow had 21 to lead all scorers while Tyson Brazell had 15for Vassar.  St. Law did a good job doubling Avitabile and erasing him offensively late (still had 14 pts) but he had 3 key blocks after halftime and generally was a big disruption to what the Saints tried to do.  Richard Williams also with 19 for St. Lawrence.  This is a team that's really going to rip up the LL over the next 2 years with most all their key guys being rookies or sophs.

Great atmosphere at Vassar and credit to the students for getting involved and loud.  Also, whoever said their girls were ugly...well I guess their, umm, "recruiting" has improved drastically of late. :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 03, 2007, 09:20:05 PM
Quote from: shooters on February 03, 2007, 05:58:30 PM
Ok I will go with Montana but his teams seem to beat up on the little guys and he doesn't seem to be able to get the big wins in the league. His team got drilled by 40 last year in the conference finals. I mean it just seems his teams are just good enough to make it interesting. And as far as talent and coaching goes who gets the credit for getting the recruits? Vassar and Dutton have good players and if he is average coach and gets above average talent and wins games does that equate to being a good coach? I would like to think so. Its like Montana, ok he doesn't have much talent but finds a way to make it competitive, well if he can't recruit good players then how good of a coach is he? I dont know just some thoughts. Hamilton wins in a close game over Montana this afternoon, so its a two horse race w/ St. Lawrence and Hamilton for the top spot. I am still awaiting a vassar score.



Don't forget to take into account admissions standards and financial aid packaging. Union's are a little tougher than some of the other schools in the league — not all, just some. For example, things may have been a little different in the LL if Welchons had gone to Union instead of Hamilton, had he gotten into Union. Just some food for thought.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 04, 2007, 01:19:06 PM
But considering Hamilton is a better school why would he have every wanted to go to Union. I believe his girlfriend went there but wouldn't that have been the only incentive. Hamilton is ranked #17 by U.S. News while Union is #39. Not only that but Hamilton accepts 10% fewer applicants than Union. Hamilton is by far superior school.

Sorry to say but maybe this will help stir up the rivalry.

Also, I just wanted to state that Hamilton's streak of .500 seasons is up to 33 straight. That's very impressive. The longest active streak is 37 by the New Jersey City University men's basketball team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 04, 2007, 01:24:41 PM
Do you guys honestly still believe that Vassar is the best team in LL after there losses over the past couple weeks?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 04, 2007, 03:58:43 PM
Vassar lost in OT to st. lawrence so I would say if they are a team that could do some damage but no they are not the top LL team. That will be decided this coming weekend up at St. Lawrence. TK played another 30 minutes of action yesterday and logged in an impressive 5 pts. So in his last three games he goes for 6-23-5. Very up and down. i hope they get jones back to pick up these off nights for TK. Should be an interesting weekend for the LL. Welchons wouldn't go to Union thats almost funny. Hamilton was awful again from 3, they need some straight up shooters to run away w/ the league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 04, 2007, 04:12:27 PM
Quote from: shooters on February 04, 2007, 03:58:43 PM
Welchons wouldn't go to Union thats almost funny.

How sure of that are you?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 04, 2007, 04:42:18 PM
TK didn't have an off night. They just aren't giving him the ball. Tobin hasn't made TK a priority on the  team. I don't even think he had a touch in the whole second half. Tobin must not know how to coach when he can't give his best player the ball. Instead he's too busy on developing poor shooting fast and flashy freshman guards. I would just like to see more consistency in the style of play. One night it's Giorgi and TK in the post. The next night it's Dave Alston, Jay Simpson, and Harlee Wood shooting threes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 04, 2007, 05:05:30 PM
Hoaf,

Were you at the game? If so then I will take that as fact but first it was Tobin wasn't playing TK enough now its he doesn't get enough touches. They run mainly motion offense w/ a few sets which means no one is singled out. Now I believe that Union zoned Hamilton yesterday according to the radio and Wood seemed to be fine handling it. I think there were a lot of double teaming of TK which is exactly what i would do if I was playing against Hamilton. Now my issue with Tobin is his continual play of Giorgi. I have no idea how he gets into the game much less stays there. I did see he only played 9 minutes yesterday which is a relief. Hamilton plays an up tempo style of play and Giorgi goes totally against all of it. Now the welchons comment was just a stir the pot comment it had no truth to it, maybe he was going to Union, who knows and quite frankly cares.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 04, 2007, 08:31:19 PM
vassar's two losses this weekend are a result of poor coaching (unbelieveable anyone would even mention mike dutton for coach of the year). case in point - joe davis scores 15 first half point against clarkson and plays three minutes in the second half in a game where vassar's offense was bogged down. also, vassar seems unprepared for alot of games (did not look ready against clarksons zone), and get by because of tremendous talent. they could be something special with a guy like montana who, by the way, is the best scouter in the conference. union will know their opponents offense better than their opponent. he is by far coach of the year in the conference.

one other note - the kid sharlow from st lawrence is unbelievable. he controlled the game against vassar - penetrating any time he wanted against a VERY good on-the-ball defender in tyson brazell. ended up with 21 and 5 dimes (although the assist number should have been higher). 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on February 04, 2007, 11:37:39 PM
I've only seen Hamilton a couple times this year, and one was when TK was out, but whether they are trying to get him the ball or not, there is no way he should only have 5 points in 30 minutes.  Something is seriously wrong here.  I don't care if they're double-teaming him the whole game - the most talented player on the floor should be able to score double figures in a LL game.  If he's still hurt, that's one thing, but if he's healthy, I just don't know.  I have no idea whether to blame the coaching or the player - I only know that Hamilton is far from a smoothly operating machine at this point.  Every game it's something different, with different players disappearing for different games.  They may well win the league and advance to the tournament, but unless they really turn something around in the next week or two, they will be going home very early.  It's too bad, because with the exception of Amherst, the east/northeast is wide open this year and any team that makes it in (within reason) could make a nice run.  I don't see Hamilton doing that at this point though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 05, 2007, 12:35:04 AM
Quote from: bucketsallday on February 04, 2007, 08:31:19 PM
one other note - the kid sharlow from st lawrence is unbelievable. he controlled the game against vassar - penetrating any time he wanted against a VERY good on-the-ball defender in tyson brazell. ended up with 21 and 5 dimes (although the assist number should have been higher). 

I thought he was pretty shaky in the first half, tried to do too much and make plays that just weren't there.  I even said at that time (to nobody in particular) "coach, take #10 out, I think he's shaving points."  2nd half he settled way down and took it over with shooting and passing.  Overall SLU was just far too athletic for Vassar and it was VC's discipline and shooting touch that kept them in it til the end.  I do like Brazell and Avitabile quite a bit, they complement each other well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 05, 2007, 10:56:08 AM
st lawrence controlled the paint, especially down the stretch, where vassar couldnt get d boards. williams had 19 and 10, and whoever 00 is had about 6 blocks and a vicious dunk on avitable.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 05, 2007, 12:18:56 PM
met fan,

That is exactly what I am trying to say! I get so sick of everyone making excuses about TK. First it was he was not playing, then it was he was hurt, now its the offense and the coach. I mean every week he should be "forward of the week" but instead its a blame game or excuse for why he didn't perform. He should consistantly be putting up 20-10, period! If he would just stand under the bucket the entire game he should net 10 off rebounds alone. Giorgi can put up 5pts. in 30 minutes if thats what Hamilton needs. At any rate I will be the first person to tell you Hamilton is not a well oiled machine. They get inconsistent play from a lot of people. I can't wait for Jones to get back and help this team out, apparently its too much work for TK.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 05, 2007, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Hoaf on February 04, 2007, 01:19:06 PM
Hamilton is ranked #17 by U.S. News while Union is #39. Not only that but Hamilton accepts 10% fewer applicants than Union. Hamilton is by far superior school.

Do people still actually base their decisions on where schools are ranked in those magazines?  I got into Hamilton and Middlebury (which Midd guys would probably say is "superior" to Hamilton), but ended up choosing Hobart and loved it. 

In fact, my going to an "inferior" school as Hobart - at least based on these completely subjective rankings - didn't hurt me at all - education or career wise.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 05, 2007, 04:44:01 PM
I would totally base my decision on a school's ranking and reputation. Wouldn't you? Especially, if you grew up in an elitist WASP suburb of NYC where reputation is everything.

Hobart was my safety. Hamilton was my mid-range school. Middlebury was a stretch. I would have gone to Middlebury in second if I had gotten in. Heck! They even have their own ski mountain.

College is everything to a kid when you're surrounded by goal oriented peers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on February 05, 2007, 06:30:02 PM
Where are all of the Vassar guys?  Clarkson and SLU turns them from frontrunner to lets try to make it into the playoffs.  My only prediction that seems to be in jeopardy is Union backing up to RPI.  It seems as though that spot may be reserved for Vassar.  I thought that SLU deserved more props which seems justified now.  Clarkson's win at Vassar kept them on life support, but the next loss pulls the plug.  Haven't seen RPI but they seem to be playing pretty good ball but somehow they always seems to be the perenial bridesmaid.  Either 4 or 5th in the league and never making it to the promised land.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 05, 2007, 06:38:59 PM
Quote from: Hoaf on February 05, 2007, 04:44:01 PM
I would totally base my decision on a school's ranking and reputation. Wouldn't you? Especially, if you grew up in an elitist WASP suburb of NYC where reputation is everything.

Hobart was my safety. Hamilton was my mid-range school. Middlebury was a stretch. I would have gone to Middlebury in second if I had gotten in. Heck! They even have their own ski mountain.

College is everything to a kid when you're surrounded by goal oriented peers.

That is still probably the common wisdom in the elitist suburbs of NYC, as it was the common wisdom of my elitist Connecticut hometown.  Fortunately I guess I was either a) too dumb and/or b) too smart to put much stock into that.

I do recall getting a lot of funny looks when I told folks I chose Hobart over Middlebury. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 05, 2007, 09:21:54 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on February 05, 2007, 06:38:59 PM

That is still probably the common wisdom in the elitist suburbs of NYC, as it was the common wisdom of my elitist Connecticut hometown.  Fortunately I guess I was either a) too dumb and/or b) too smart to put much stock into that.

I do recall getting a lot of funny looks when I told folks I chose Hobart over Middlebury. 

I understand where you're coming from though. Hobart has a beautiful campus and is surrounded by a wonderful lake with lots of wineries. My best friend goes there and he loves it. I understand your reasoning. I think I'm just trying to justify paying 45k a year for an education here at Hamilton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 05, 2007, 10:14:49 PM
I thought you guys might be interested in how our conference has stacked up in the NCAA tournament since automatic bids have taken place. I found this little piece of statistical data in the multi-region topic area.

Quote from: diehardfan on August 04, 2006, 10:00:23 PM
Conference Rankings Based on Past Playoff Records


Rank # Conference NameWin-Loss RecordW-L Percentage
1. Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference27-8 .771
2. Ohio Athletic Conference 17-7.708
3T Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association 16-8.667
3TNew England Small College Athletic Conference 26-13.667
5.Capital Athletic Conference  14-8 .636
6.College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin  21-12.636
7. New Jersey Athletic Conference 15-9.625
8.North Coast Athletic Conference15-10 .600
9. Old Dominion Athletic Conference   17-12.586
10.University Athletic Association14-10.583
11TNew England Women's and Men's Athletic Conference 12-9.571
11T State University of New York Athletic Conference12-9.571
13.Great South Athletic Conference8-7.533
14. Northwest Conference 10-9.526
15TMAC Commonwealth League  9-9.500
15T Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference 7-7.500
15T Massachusetts State Collegiate Athletic Conference  7-7.500
15T MAC Freedom League 7-7.500
19. Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference  10-11.476
20.  American Southwest Conference9-10.473
21. Little East Conference       7-8 .467
22T Centennial Conference   6-7 .462
22T Liberty League 6-7.462
24.Empire 8 6-8.429
25.Midwest Conference    6-9  .400
26T Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference   5-8.385
26TPennsylvania Athletic Conference 5-8.385
26TSouthern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference 5-8.385
29T Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference 4-7.364
29T Skyline Conference   4-7.364
31T Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference 3-6.333
31T North Eastern Athletic Conference1-2.333
33. USA South Athletic Conference3-7.300
34. Independents     3-10.231
35. Great Northeast Athletic Conference2-7.222
36. Presidents' Athletic Conference 1-4.200
37. Northern Illinois-Iowa Conference 1-7.125
38.City University of New York Athletic Conference1-8.111
39T North Atlantic Conference     0-6.000
39T Lake Michigan Conference  0-7.000
39T St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference  0-7  .000
39T Commonwealth Coast Conference  0-8 .000
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 06, 2007, 12:14:05 AM
Looks like the standings from football - pretty much all the top D3 conferences are from/in the midwest.....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 06, 2007, 11:15:22 AM
Quote from: shooters on February 04, 2007, 05:05:30 PM
Now the welchons comment was just a stir the pot comment it had no truth to it, maybe he was going to Union, who knows and quite frankly cares.



First you say, there's no way Welchons would go to union, then you say maybe, followed by who knows and who cares.

The comment wasn't necessarily meant to stir the pot, just a response to Montana not being able to get better quality players than Hamilton.

As for the college rankings, that is overall, not necessarily what the schools' do for admission of athletes. From what I understand, Union doesn't really give much consideration for athletes — except for football and hockey — while other schools' help out athletes in many sports.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on February 06, 2007, 05:49:11 PM
I can only comment from personal experience at Union, that I was told by a coach that a push from the coach turned a wait list to an outright acceptance at Union. A second story from a friend said financial packages got better when a prospect was going to attend a different college.  So I'm not positive that Union totally ignores athletes.  As to the Hamilton vs Union vs Hobart vs Middlebury -of that cast only Middlebury may be able to call itself "far superior".  Having ties to the other three by virtue of relatives attending or having attended all 3 they are all great schools and each have strengths and weaknesses.  For instance Engineering at Hobart and Hamilton were virtually non-existent requiring a 3-2 program where the final 2 years were at different schools, whereas Union has an excellent program within a liberal arts atmosphere.  Hobart has a sailing team which was one guys reason for attending.  Hamilton probably does have the 2nd best "rep" but I wouldn't say by leaps and bounds.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 06, 2007, 06:41:43 PM
Everyone has their points about those schools and I think they are all legit. Let's get back to talking about basketball.

Coach Montana does get my vote for coach of the year. His team didn't look that stellar in their loss to Hamilton over the weekend but I have seen Montana in the past get more out of his players.

TK gets my vote for player of the year. I think he's had the best statistical performance of anyone in the league and except for a couple games, Hamilton has won every game he's played in.

Rookie of the year is up for grabs. I haven't look into the stat sheets enough to come up with my own opinion yet.

I also have a random thought. Do you think any team in the LL could beat Amherst? I was at the Hamilton/Amherst NCAA tourney game last year and there was no competition. With Amherst being in the top spot it got me thinking about how little the LL plays the better teams in the NESCAC (Besides Williams, who usually has a good team). I'd really like to see Trinity, Bates, and Amherst play SLU, Hamilton, and Vassar on a more regular basis. It could get some inter-conference rivalries going.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 06, 2007, 07:00:44 PM
Hoaf -

Why is Hamilton in the LL for BB, but in the NESCAC for pretty much all other sports?

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 06, 2007, 07:11:19 PM
They are in the NESCAC for football, hockey, squash, softball, and baseball.... also a couple more.

The reason they are in the Liberty League is because of travel. The college doesn't like having students traveling to and from Colby, Bates, Bowdoin, or any other team that's 5+ hours a way every other week. It makes no sense to have students drive up to 10 hours to play a team that is in your own conference.

The reason Hamilton is in the NESCAC for other sports is because of alumni and infrequent travel. The football team travels only once a week along with the squash and hockey teams. But the other reason for Hamilton sticking around in the NESCAC is because the alumni fund the teams and they remember playing teams like Trinity and Williams. Also, they deem the NESCAC a more prestigious league in their eyes because of the selectivity of the schools in it.

If any of that makes sense, that's what my understanding is while being a member of the student body.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 06, 2007, 07:21:07 PM
That's what I figured.  Thx!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on February 06, 2007, 07:38:18 PM
Hoaf- I just can't see a LL team beating Amherst, but that being said I could see the potential for 3 teams to get into the ECAC this year.  Obviously there is a lot of basketball before then but the E8 is down this year and SUNYAC is mired in mediocrity with only B-port and Plattsburgh with any bragging rights. Even Clarkson has wins over Utica and RIT this year.  RPI I believe has a win over Williams.  Union with its "overachieving" league record could grab a spot. Vassar too.  Assuming SLU or Hamilton wins the tournament either one of the them should be lock for the ECAC's if they lose I would think.  SLU if they play well for the rest of the season and lose in the final may even get an at large bid to the dance.. I suppose, though it might be more of a stretch, Hamilton might possibly get the same consideration with 6 losses (their final loss coming in the league championship game) but that would be pretty unlikely.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 07, 2007, 09:35:27 AM
I don't think they could beat them either but I'd like to watch some LL/NESCAC basketball that doesn't include sloppy play by Williams or Middlebury.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on February 07, 2007, 02:49:12 PM
For a time in the late 90's, Hamilton played both a full LL and NESCAC schedule in basketball.  The main reason they dropped the NESCAC was because they had no travel partner, which put them at a competetive disadvantage.  For instance, the NESCAC schedule only includes one game against each team, on a Friday/Saturday setup.  Hamilton would travel for their away weekend, say against Tufts and Bates.  Since they had no travel partner, each of those teams would only have one game that weekend, while Hamilton played back to back, with the Saturday game coming against a fresh team.  That was the case every weekend.  Otherwise, the travel isn't that much different than LL weekends in the north country or capital region, especially since there would only be two or three road trips a year without the home and away schedule.  Incidently, in hockey, Bates has no team, so Hamilton has a travelling partner (Middlebury, I think), negating the disadvantage the basketball team faced. 

Regarding Amherst - no LL team would play with them this year.  Hardly any NESCAC teams, or anyone else, have played with them either.  They are by far the class of the East/Northeast this year.  Maybe NYU or Rochester could give them a game, but I don't think they'll have much luck either.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 07, 2007, 08:00:12 PM
Amherst's 23-0 record is really impressive. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 07, 2007, 08:45:16 PM
Thanks for the history. I never really knew Hamilton's past regarding NESCAC play. I find it interesting that they would play in two conferences. How did that work once it got to conference tourney time? Is that what you were saying, that they played a full schedule in both conferences?

I agree with you that no LL team could beat Amherst but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be entertained at local game by watching them play. I wish Amherst would travel to the snow belt once in awhile.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 07, 2007, 09:02:38 PM
The first regional rankings are out. FYI

East Region
1 St. Lawrence 18-3 17-3
2 Brockport State 16-4 15-4
3 Utica 17-3 16-3
4 New York U. 16-4 14-4
5 Rochester 15-5 15-4
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on February 07, 2007, 11:45:15 PM
I'm not exactly sure how they were able to work in both league schedules - there were fewer LL teams at that time, so that helped.  Also, prior to 2001, the NESCAC did not even declare a league champion - they were somewhat famous (or infamous) for listing the league standings alphabetically, so those teams got into the NCAA tournament solely on their record or accomplishments during the regular season.  Hamilton could still get in by winning the LL (or UCAA), though I don't recall exactly when that league tournament started.   Many of Hamilton's best teams came in the 80's and early 90's when, as a NESCAC member, they were prohibited from participating in the NCAA tournament.  That rule didn't end until around '93.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on February 08, 2007, 12:07:20 PM
those rankings are interesting considering hamilton has beaten two of the three teams in the top three. Hamilton plays to the level of their opponents. They can beat any of teh teams in the east but they can also lose to any team in the east. They have had some pretty ugly losses. Ove rteh years though, Hamilton plays extroadinary beter at home and are vulnerable when they play crappy teams on the road.

As for amherst, theyve been dumptrucking people. Literally, they have not had a team come within like 10 points of beating them like all season. If they dont win the diii championship, this year would be a bust.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 08, 2007, 02:28:36 PM
I feel like Hamilton should be in the top five once they get through the regular season. They just haven't played enough regional games to crack the top 5. Hopefully, SLU and Hamilton will make it to the NCAA tourney this year and we can see two LL teams in the dance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on February 08, 2007, 02:50:23 PM
Hoaf I'd love to see 2 LL teams in the dance also but I think for that to happen Hamilton or anyone else  has to beat SLU in the championship game,  I just can't see a pool bid to a LL team with 6 or more losses.  That being said though if 2 teams do get into the dance I could see as many as 5 LL teams in the post season.  Vassar should have a shot at the ECAC downstate,  RPI, Union and potentially even struggling Clarkson and Hobart have chances if they win out.  Clarkson in particular has some real good early non-conference wins and Hobart beat a former ranked team (Alvernia I think) so who knows.  If memory serves me U of R declines to participate in the ECAC if they don't go to the dance so that would open up a space also. The SUNYAC has a bunch of mediocre teams after Brockport and Plattsburg.  E-8 teams for consideration will probably be SJF,Ithaca,&RIT if any of these don't win the tournament.  Utica has a good shot to get in with a pool bid even if they don't win the E8 tourney barring a total collapse.  I am really looking forward to this weekend as things get sorted out.  I'll probably take a ride up north to watch Hamilton vs Clarkson.  There is certainly no love loss between those teams so it should be a good game with talent (Hamilton) prevailing over emotion and desperation (Clarkson).  The Slu Hamilton game on Fri. should be a barnburner too!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 08, 2007, 04:10:39 PM
Quote from: b4the3isme on February 08, 2007, 02:50:23 PM
There is certainly no love loss between those teams (Clarkson/Hamilton) so it should be a good game with talent (Hamilton) prevailing over emotion and desperation (Clarkson).  The Slu Hamilton game on Fri. should be a barnburner too!!!

Indeed!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 08, 2007, 05:02:30 PM
I agree that Hamilton should be top five in the region, they have played how many games without Jones and/or TK, two of the best players in the LL. Also as someone else said Hamilton has beat two of top 3 teams, I just don't understand how everyone is so excited about SLU, I've seen them play and they don't excite me. Hamilton will go up there and get a hard fought victory tomorrow but I would be concerned if/when that happens to watch out for Clarkson the following night. With so much emotion going into the SLU game I could see a coasting mentality if Hamilton wins on Friday. I also think for Hamilton to get into the tourney they have to win the conference tournament, no way they get an at large bid. I say SLU has one more loss before LL tourney and if they don't win the conference tourney then they won't get in either.  Let the games begin!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 09, 2007, 12:53:50 PM
great night of basketball tonight - Vassar at union and st lawrence at hamilton. gonna find out alot about who the top teams are. vassar really needs a win tonight and a sweep this weekend to get back on track - three tough losses in a row, all at home. in the first meeting, vassar couldnt defend unions shooters - 12 threes. hopefully they turn it around tonight. when unions hot they can beat anybody. i think vassar pulls this one out tonight tho, on the back of a huge game by avitable.

is nick jones back yet? if not, i think st lawrence wins tonight - they have three bodies to run at tk, two of whom are just as athletic, and their guard play is infinitely better than hamiltons. with nick jones, its all gonna depend on which hamilton shows up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 09, 2007, 03:19:49 PM
From what I hear Nick Jones should be back for the games this weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if Hamilton drops one or both of their games this weekend. Remember one of their last road trips when they beat Union by 20 and lost to Skidmore in OT. After that I haven't come to expect wins when they go on the road.

Vassar could pop out a couple of wins this weekend versus Union and Skidmore but It wouldn't catch me off guard if Union beats them tonight.

Let's see who wins this weekend and then we can discuss who could host the LL tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 09, 2007, 04:39:36 PM
I expect Hamilton to prevail in both games  this weekend. The have full staff and should be ready to go. I say they beat Clarkson by 20 pts. and take care of SLU by 10. I agree w/ Hoaf though in some aspect and that is anything can happen w/ Hamilton. Is the game on the internet.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 09, 2007, 06:13:17 PM
I just checked on the Hamilton and SLU site. Hamilton's webcasting the Men's Hockey game and I couldn't find anything on the SLU site.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 09, 2007, 10:24:48 PM
Hamilton 76, St. Lawrence 68.

Both teams shot over 50% from the floor.

Hamilton beats #1 in the Region.

TK had 24 pts and 12 rebounds.
Giorgi and Dave Alston had 12 pts.

Richard Williams had 14 pts and 11 rebounds for SLU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 10, 2007, 11:12:50 AM
well I was two points off of my prediction! Good win by Hamilton now lets get revenge on Clarkson this afternoon. From the numbers it looks like Giorgi played well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 10, 2007, 02:58:13 PM
Union lost a close one to Vassar. I don't think Vassar's going to be doing much damage in the conference or tourney this year. Is anyone still on the bandwagon?

I think that Union's a better team than many original thought, the coaching by Montana has been stellar and he gets the most out of his players.

My picks for the conference tournament are Union, Vassar, Hamilton, and St. Lawrence. I think if Hamilton can beat Clarkson today they'll be hosting the tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 10, 2007, 03:24:11 PM
hoaf - i think vassar can do some damage in the LL tourney. the two games between vassar and st lawrence have both been instant classics - both in ot, a couple of buzzer beaters. i seem them ending up as the 2 and 3 seeds (hamilton 1, union 4), and i think that whoever wins that game will give hamilton a run for their money in the final, although if hamilton doesnt make the ncaa's it would be an upset.

vassar definently has the horses to make a run. with brazell finally waking up and playing the way he should be (15ppg in conference play) that gives vassar two legitamite scoring threats from anywhere on the floor. dutton is notorious for being unable to make adjustments in the second time throught he conference tho, so as always coaching is the largest obstacle for vassar making any noise this year.

vassar rpi game on tuesday will be huge. assuming vassar knocks off skidmore, a win by vassar over rpi locks the top four teams into the conference tourney, barring a collapse by union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on February 10, 2007, 06:15:56 PM
hamilton 71   Clarkson 60

High scorer: nick jones with 21
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 10, 2007, 06:19:25 PM
SLU lost to Hobart.... bad weekend for SLU
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on February 10, 2007, 08:45:39 PM
saw the Union vs. RPI game today and came away impressed by both teams.  Union jumped out early making threes but RPI got back in with some really good defense.  This was a great game with RPI holding on to a 74-68 win.  RPI put 5 players in double figures, with some really good inside play and clutch shots.  RPI really took Union out of their stuff.  Very active efforts by both teams and their coaches.  From talking to some people after the game, RPI has vassar tuesday, which is  a huge game for them.  Union finishes at home with Clarkson and SLU this weekend.  May catch Union & SLU before the play-offs. 
I came away really impressed with both teams and think either one is capable of winning a weekend tournament if they get in
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 10, 2007, 09:36:19 PM
The good news is there isn't a lot of SLU supporters on this site, the bad news...........a loss to Hobart! Talk about going from hero to zero, #1 seed in the East to "i can't win a game." Good weekend for Conts, and although my prediction was slightly off it was only wrong in the numbers of winning by. Looks like Hamilton is coming alive at the right time, Jones and TK are playing well and I would think now that Hamilton would start to get some consideration in the East ranking. They've beat SLU twice. I would think Hamilton would be hosting the tournament again this year w/ a complete mess as to who gets in and match ups right now. Big game tuesday
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 11, 2007, 09:02:20 AM
vassar in with a win at rpi tues.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: fpc85 on February 11, 2007, 10:20:07 PM
Quote from: Hoaf on February 10, 2007, 06:19:25 PM
SLU lost to Hobart.... bad weekend for SLU
Good to see aasim Cunningham have a decent year....he deserves it...been through a lot of crap during his time there.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 12, 2007, 10:46:41 AM
i think avitable is the leader for player of the year in the conference as of now. 3rd in points, leading rebounder, 3rd in assists, leading shotblocker, 7th in steals, tied for the lead in fg pct, and playing his best as conference is winding down as opposed to TK, whose stats have been droppin fast. and its not only the stats. he handles the ball as much as any of vassar's guards, and he does so many things well that dont show up in the stat sheet - taking charges, changing shots, attracting a crowd on defense. and he has been unselfish enough to alow other players to step up when he is being taken away - brazell, buttersworth and joe davis have all been brilliant the last month.

and congrats should go out for his 1000th point, scored against skidmore on saturday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 12, 2007, 05:42:09 PM
Quote from: shooters on February 10, 2007, 09:36:19 PM
The good news is there isn't a lot of SLU supporters on this site, the bad news...........a loss to Hobart!

hey we bart fans will take a win - especially one of the big variety - when we can get one.  just have to wonder why bart can't turn in more performances like this one on a more consistent basis?!?!?


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 12, 2007, 06:02:47 PM
We'll see if Hobart can pull another upset tomorrow when they face Hamilton in Clinton, NY.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 12, 2007, 06:40:05 PM
Quote from: Hoaf on February 12, 2007, 06:02:47 PM
We'll see if Hobart can pull another upset tomorrow when they face Hamilton in Clinton, NY.

Given that Bart has only put together consecutive wins only once all season, the odds are pretty good for Hamilton.  Especially since the last time Bart had a "big upset", they lost to the Conts by 24 points.

Still, theoretically the Statesmen could make the LL tourney - if - and that's a huge IF - they win out and Vassar and/or Union lose out.  Not likely either case, but you never know.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on February 13, 2007, 05:15:37 PM
I'm in total shock..  saw both the Hamilton/Clarkson game and the Clarkson/Hobart game.  Based on what I saw of Hobart on Friday there should be no way that they go into SLU and win.  Clarkson pretty much won comfortably.   I never got the feeling that the result of the game was ever in doubt afer the first 5 minutes. Hamilton on the other hand looked very good.  The Continentals came out on fire probably 6 or 7 threes out of their first eight three attempts, leads by 15 at the half.  Clarkson claws back to 7 twice in the second half but Nick Jones provided the answer every time Hamilton needed it. Think Hamilton shot like 56% for the game.  With respect to the Great Pumpkin, the Hobart team that I saw didn't look as good as Union which beat Clarkson by 4 and then they come back and beat SLU which destroyed Clarkson by about 25 the last time they played.  It just goes to show you that you've got to play the games.  Who would ever figure that Hamilton's 2 losses would be to Clarkson and Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: AUPepBand on February 13, 2007, 10:50:33 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on February 12, 2007, 06:40:05 PM
Quote from: Hoaf on February 12, 2007, 06:02:47 PM
We'll see if Hobart can pull another upset tomorrow when they face Hamilton in Clinton, NY.

Given that Bart has only put together consecutive wins only once all season, the odds are pretty good for Hamilton.  Especially since the last time Bart had a "big upset", they lost to the Conts by 24 points.

Still, theoretically the Statesmen could make the LL tourney - if - and that's a huge IF - they win out and Vassar and/or Union lose out.  Not likely either case, but you never know.

Hobart's making a mess of the LL with back-to-back wins over the leaders (SLU and Hamilton) after tonight's 87-86 OT win in Clinton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on February 13, 2007, 11:19:35 PM
hamilton made mike manning look like kobe bryant and John Grazioli like tim duncan. does anyone find it odd that teams taht play hamilton shoot lights out. hobart shot 75% in first half. skidmore shot something like that too when they beat hamilton a couple of weeks ago.

i like hobarts team though, everyone on the team has clearly defined roles and everyone knows who the leaders are. good cohesive group. im actually surprised they havent faired better this year in liberty leagure play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 14, 2007, 12:56:52 AM
vassar clinches a spot in the LL tourney tonight with a win at rpi. hamilton wins the regular season with one win this weekend, but losing both and a sweep by vassar and/or st lawrence gives one of those two the crown.

brazell is looking like a first team all conference player with his recent performances - 20pts and 7brds tonight again. and avitable makes 15pts, 9brds, 4asts, and 3stls so common you dont even realize hes is having as good of a game as he did - made two huge steals for layups down the stretch. its becoming clear that stl, vassar and hamilton are the class of the LL. its gonna be an exciting tourney - i think all three ave the talent to win a game or two in the ncaa tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 14, 2007, 01:01:24 AM
and about rpi, i was at the game, and neil wesson did not impress me. he is the most overated player in the LL. he had 6 turnovers tonight, and made bad play after bad play. the two games against vassar he has looked terrible, no idea how he gets the stats he does against other teams.

#24, the kid gordon, did lok very good tonight. dont know what year he is, but he was very active and made a lot of plays for rpi. hes gonna be a plyer for a while in the LL. does anyone know what happened to the 6'8 freshman philatre rpi has? he was in street clothes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 14, 2007, 06:56:31 AM
woot,

I notice that too about the shooting. I wish someone could give me the stats on open shots or lay-ups due to Hamilton's agressive defense. I have never seen a team that gives up so many open looks. I could see Hamilton losing both games this weekend, I mean how does a team shoot 75 percent from the field in the first half? Those are not contested shots I can promise you that. It should be an interestin tourney thats for sure.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: XVII on February 14, 2007, 02:25:34 PM
Gordon was a medical redshirt last year, so this is his second year of eligibility.  Ricky Philatre is out for the season with a foot, I don't believe he can redshirt.

Anyone know the playoff scenarios for this weekend?

Quote from: bucketsallday on February 14, 2007, 01:01:24 AM
and about rpi, i was at the game, and neil wesson did not impress me. he is the most overated player in the LL. he had 6 turnovers tonight, and made bad play after bad play. the two games against vassar he has looked terrible, no idea how he gets the stats he does against other teams.

#24, the kid gordon, did lok very good tonight. dont know what year he is, but he was very active and made a lot of plays for rpi. hes gonna be a plyer for a while in the LL. does anyone know what happened to the 6'8 freshman philatre rpi has? he was in street clothes.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on February 14, 2007, 02:43:36 PM
nick jones of hamilton did have one of the nicest dunks i have seen in d3 basketball in a long time on tuesday. it was jordanesque!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 14, 2007, 03:02:26 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on February 13, 2007, 10:50:33 PM
Quote from: The Great Pumpkin on February 12, 2007, 06:40:05 PM
Quote from: Hoaf on February 12, 2007, 06:02:47 PM
We'll see if Hobart can pull another upset tomorrow when they face Hamilton in Clinton, NY.

Given that Bart has only put together consecutive wins only once all season, the odds are pretty good for Hamilton.  Especially since the last time Bart had a "big upset", they lost to the Conts by 24 points.

Still, theoretically the Statesmen could make the LL tourney - if - and that's a huge IF - they win out and Vassar and/or Union lose out.  Not likely either case, but you never know.

Hobart's making a mess of the LL with back-to-back wins over the leaders (SLU and Hamilton) after tonight's 87-86 OT win in Clinton.


WOW!  Wouldn't have believed it if I read it elsewhere.

Sounds like Hamilton just ran into a Bart squad that for whatever reason, was just hitting almost all their shots.

http://www.hws.edu/athletics/hobart/showrelease.asp?id=3661
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on February 14, 2007, 03:58:16 PM
Pumpkin u must be flying.  Hobart even if they win out and Union loses out may still have a problem with RPI if RPI loses to Hobart but beats Hamilton.  I honestly don't know which of the 7-7 teams would get in?  That would be a question I'd like answered?  I think the only way it seems that the LL could avoid Hamilton being the champion would be to schedule all of their games against the bottom 3  teams of the league (losses to Clarkson, Skids, and Hobart).  Go figure.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 14, 2007, 04:42:43 PM
Quote from: b4the3isme on February 14, 2007, 03:58:16 PM
Pumpkin u must be flying.  Hobart even if they win out and Union loses out may still have a problem with RPI if RPI loses to Hobart but beats Hamilton.  I honestly don't know which of the 7-7 teams would get in?  That would be a question I'd like answered?  I think the only way it seems that the LL could avoid Hamilton being the champion would be to schedule all of their games against the bottom 3  teams of the league (losses to Clarkson, Skids, and Hobart).  Go figure.

will always take a win over the conts.  they are a quality program and class act.  just sounds like we had "one of those games".

no idea how the tie breaker situations would play out, but realistically bart would need a ton of help to make the final field.  ending this rough year with 10 wins would be an accomplishment in itself.  rpi will be a tough match up, but with back to back wins over the best teams in the league, bart's confidence has to be pretty high.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 15, 2007, 01:05:53 PM
Hobart won't get in the tournament.

That's my little prognostication.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on February 15, 2007, 02:17:21 PM
does hamilton have to win one game this weekend to clinch #1 seed or do they already have it?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 15, 2007, 02:24:05 PM
There is only a one game lead for Hamilton right now so if Vassar beats them this weekend, then they have to win on Saturday against RPI. If Vassar loses Friday, then Hamilton will have clinched because they hold the tie breaker w/ SLU if they lose on Saturday. I think Hamilton wins on Friday and clinches the title.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 15, 2007, 02:33:07 PM
They have to win one game this weekend in order to clinch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 16, 2007, 04:59:13 PM
good luck to bart tonight!  get that 10th win!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on February 16, 2007, 10:13:09 PM
hamilton beat vassar by like 15
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 16, 2007, 11:56:29 PM
bart's on a roll!

http://www.hws.edu/athletics/hobart/showrelease.asp?id=3672
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 17, 2007, 12:48:43 PM
Well that puts a wrap on the conference, I think i was right on Vassar, yes they are a top four team in the league, but that is about it. Hamilton played well and finally shot the ball a little bit. Hobart must have brushed off on them a little.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 17, 2007, 02:33:53 PM
you cant say vassar is a top four LL team and that's it when you consider the fact that they beat st lawrence at st lawrence and lost to them at home after stl hit three at the buzzer to send the game to ot. vassar caught hamilton on a bad night - after they get beat by hobart. outside of avitable, vassar just couldnt hit a shot. nights like that happen.

does anyone know if hobart or rpi still has a chance to get in if union loses, or does union have the tiebreakers? i think hobart has it over union because they knocked hamilton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 17, 2007, 02:39:29 PM
Does it really matter if RPI or Hobart get in the tournament? It's not like they could do any real damage. The winner's going to be either St. Lawrence, Hamilton, or Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 17, 2007, 03:01:19 PM
i know, i was just curious. I wish I could be there for the st lawrence vassar game. i urge anyone who is in the hamilton area to go - they match up very well with each other and both teams know the game. i think it will all come down to whether or not vassar can keep sharlow under control when they played at vassar, he controlled the game - i think he had 21 and 8 dimes or something, and got in the lane whenever he wanted to. if vassar can keep him from going crazy and knock down some shots (never shoot well at hamilton) i think vassar will win.

the battle of the frontline is huge too - especially avitable vs the kid 34 - hes a double double machine. regardless, gonnna be a great tourney, and i think all thre teams can make some noise in the ncaas if given a chance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on February 17, 2007, 03:19:35 PM
LL player of the year: I guess its between TK of hamilton , Avitable of vassar, or grazioli of hobart

Even though i am a hamilton fan, i would give the honors to avitable. He does everything on the basketball court and is a true leader for his team. he brings it every night and can score 25 when his tema needs it or dish out 10 assists if necessary. There is no equal to him in the liberty league when it comes down to versatility on the basketball court.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 17, 2007, 03:34:32 PM
I'm with Woot.

Avitable does everything for Vassar and he deserves the recognition.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 17, 2007, 04:13:49 PM
Quote from: bucketsallday on February 17, 2007, 02:33:53 PM
you cant say vassar is a top four LL team and that's it when you consider the fact that they beat st lawrence at st lawrence and lost to them at home after stl hit three at the buzzer to send the game to ot. vassar caught hamilton on a bad night - after they get beat by hobart. outside of avitable, vassar just couldnt hit a shot. nights like that happen.

does anyone know if hobart or rpi still has a chance to get in if union loses, or does union have the tiebreakers? i think hobart has it over union because they knocked hamilton.

Yes, Hobart did beat Hamilton, but Union swept Hobart, thus giving them head-to-head tiebreaker. As for RPI, I'm not sure (they split), what would happen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 17, 2007, 05:12:11 PM
bart was up 42-25 over vassar at the end of the 1st half.  now up by 20 with about 18 mins to play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 17, 2007, 07:25:35 PM
bart beats vassar by 7....too little too late though.  union wins and snags the #4 seed.  oh well.  nice run by the statesmen to finish up the year.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 18, 2007, 01:53:31 PM
Hamilton's hosting the tournament.

Union, St. Lawrence, and Vassar are also in.

I think anyone could win it. Hamilton has been playing well recently. Vassar has dropped a couple games in a row. St. Lawrence will hold its own.

If SLU loses in the finals I think they could receive an at-large bid.

Hamilton needs to win out in order to make the NCAA tournament.

Thoughts??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 18, 2007, 06:09:26 PM
Ya if SLU loses in finals and go 21-6, they could very easily get an at large bid. I kind of wish Hobart would have made the tourney they seem to be playing some of the better ball in the league right now, but their run came a bit too late. I would agree w/ Avitable as POY but TK is the better player, just didn't happen this season for him for whatever reasons. I would also agree that Hamilton has to win tourney to get bid, and I think they will if they continue to shoot well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 19, 2007, 05:15:25 PM
what does everyone think about for first team all conference.

mine is avitable and brazell, TK, grazioli, mackey and wesson (theres 6 first team spots if i remember correctly).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 19, 2007, 05:40:46 PM
I'd go with TK, Grazioli, and Avitablie on the first team. I don't know who else.

Player of the year is a toss up between Avitabile and TK. I think TK will win out because his team won the LL.

Rookie of the year: Dave Alston over the past two weeks. He's looked amazing and put together some great highlight worthy plays.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 19, 2007, 07:51:10 PM
theres no way tk deserves player of the year over avitable. if anyone saw the second half of the hobart game they would agree with me - he scored 19 pts, handled the ball for vassar, was the point man on the press. he puts up the same amount of points and boards as tk, has more assists, steals and blocks, shoots a better percentage, and is nowhere near as athlecitally gifted as tk. and had to that tk missed time this year.

all that said, i think tk will get it just because he is tk and he plays for hamilton. and nothing against tk, hes a great player and had a great year, but avitable had a helluva year for vassar, and he deserves the recognition. he has turned the vassar program around.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 19, 2007, 08:19:50 PM
But he also doesn't win as much as TK.


<ouch> 

Also, he misses free throws.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 19, 2007, 10:25:11 PM
hoaf - correct me if im wrong, but is this an exact quote from a post you made feb. 17th:
"Avitable does everything for Vassar and he deserves the recognition."

your about as consistent as tk.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 20, 2007, 12:22:18 AM
He does deserve the recognition but he doesn't deserve player of the year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 20, 2007, 11:18:45 AM
i think your right that tk gets it, but he was the third best player in the league this year - especially during conference play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 20, 2007, 02:00:29 PM
3rd best!! Behind who? Avitabile and who else.

TK had 20 and 10 in almost every game he wasn't hurt.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 20, 2007, 02:22:52 PM
I am not as knowledgable about LL basketball as I am in Football, but doesn't Hobart's Grazioli deserve some LLPOY consideration since he finished the regular season as the conference leader in scoring (17.6 ppg)?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 20, 2007, 03:20:07 PM
here is the deal. Tk will get the POY award becuz he put up good enough numbers to earn it and his team won the LL and is playing well right now. If Vassar would have beat Hamilton once or SLU and didn't collapse during the last portion of the season Avitable would have received it. Both players are deserving of the award but it comes down in a close one like this to teams and winning. Now if Hobart would have had a good first part of the season then we could talk about their guy but that just isn't possible.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 20, 2007, 03:50:08 PM
that's true.  in many cases, the poy goes to the best player on the best team in the league, not necessarily the "best player overall".

tk could very well be the best overall, but it certainly helps his candidacy that he's the best player on the best team.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on February 20, 2007, 07:42:19 PM
You guys are crazy.  If you go the the Liberty League webpage and look at conference only stats (its the only fair way to access who had a better season since they played the same conference scedule but different non-conference schedules) you will see the Avitabile leads TK in EVERY statistical catagory accept free throw percentage.  This in mind, I do not know how Avitabile does not deserve the POY award.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on February 20, 2007, 08:30:59 PM
dd22- I have no opinion on the POY award.  I haven't seen Vassar play at all.  I have seen Hamilton play and the day I saw them TK wasn't even their best player- Nick Jones was.   I do however have to say that statistics alone never are the sole criteria for picking a POY.  Certainly again until proven differently Hamilton is the best team in the league when they don't fall asleep against the bottom dwellers (ie: Skidmore, Clarkson & Hobart)- all of which they split with.  Again until you can prove differently, TK has more help on his team from top to bottom.  I believe they have 5 guys in the top 25 in scoring.  That being said TK probably doesn't need or have to put up the same statistical numbers as Avitable (sp).  However his team wins.  Certainly there are guys in the NBA with better stats than Steve Nash but who was the MVP the past 2 years?  Another factor is TK is a senior.  All things being relatively close a senior will probably win over a junior. All that being said I hope Union beats Hamilton after they fall asleep again!!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 20, 2007, 10:15:17 PM
if you wanna forget the stats and say who does more for their team - its avitable. not even close. hes a powerforward that essentially starts the offense for vassar. in terms of an all around player, avitable is the best player in the conference. all that being said - tk has had a great career and had a great year and probably would have been first team all-region and maybe some type of all-america had he not gotten hurt. either way the vote ends up, i think everyone can agree that both players are phenomonal and deserve the award.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 21, 2007, 08:50:47 AM
Quote from: b4the3isme on February 20, 2007, 08:30:59 PM
hat being said TK probably doesn't need or have to put up the same statistical numbers as Avitable (sp).  However his team wins.  Certainly there are guys in the NBA with better stats than Steve Nash but who was the MVP the past 2 years?  Another factor is TK is a senior.  All things being relatively close a senior will probably win over a junior. All that being said I hope Union beats Hamilton after they fall asleep again!!!!!

Good points!!

I like what you said about Avitibile being a Junior and not a Senior I forgot about that. Also, Avitibile does everything for his team but that's only because his team is horrible. Hamilton, as you just said has better players on it than you can find on two teams in the league and because of that TK deserves POY.

Let's just see how both of them play this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 21, 2007, 10:39:23 AM
I think Hamilton will win the LL tourney, it's at their place, which is a significant advantage for the Conts. I also think the LL will only get one team into the NCAA tourney, primarily because the NE region factors into the equation.

There have been several scenarios kicked around about how league tourneys might affect other leagues Pool C bids, but what if neither Hamilton nor St. Lawrence wins the LL tourney? The teams all beat up on each other in this league, though the top two more so. However, Hamilton's three conference losses are to the 5th, 7th and 8th place teams in the LL. St. Lawrence has lost to Hamilton (twice), Vassar and Hobart.

As for the two other teams in the conference tourney — Vassar and Union — they've had some good wins and some of their 6 losses (each have 6) have been close. Vassar has dropped games to Hamilton (twice), Union, St. Lawrence, Clarkson and Hobart. The Brewers have beaten Union and St. Lawrence once each as well.

Union beat Vassar, but lost to St. Lawrence and Hamilton twice, as well as Vassar once. The Dutchmen also dropped four of their last five, including a decision to RPI, making them the weak link of the four. However, Union has shown its capacity to get on hot-shooting streaks, especially during the conference tourney, like a couple years ago when they beat host Hobart in the first game and held off Hamilton in the finals to make the NCAAs.

Any other thoughts on the potential for upsets in the LL tourney?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 21, 2007, 12:52:05 PM
Just thought I'd take a look to see how the Northeast and East region QOWI's stack up aganist each other. It may have been overkill, but I grabbed the top 20 teams in each region, then compiled the combined list to the top 40 overall. It's clear to see the Northeast Region has teams with much higher QOWI than the East Region.

Northeast Region  (Region rank, QOWI, Overall rank, Team, Conference, Region win pct., Region record, Overall record)
1.   11.625 (1) Amherst (NESCAC)   0.958 (23-1)   24-1
2.    10.950 (3) Trinity (Conn.) (NESCAC)   0.850 (17-3)   21-3
3.    10.810 (4) Worcester Polytech (NEWMAC)   0.905 (19-2)   21-2
4.    10.708 (5) Salem State (MASCAC)   0.920 (23-2)   23-2
5.    10.520 (8) Rhode Island College (LEC)   0.880 (22-3)   22-3
6.    10.217 (20) Keene State (LEC)   0.826 (19-4)   22-4
7.    10.125 (25) Brandeis (UAA)   0.750 (18-6)   18-6
8.    9.792 (42) Bates (NESCAC)   0.708 (17-7)   18-7
9.    9.708 (49) Husson (NAC)   0.875 (21-3)   21-5
10.    9.360 (61) Tufts (NESCAC)   0.600 (15-10)   15-10
11.    9.346 (63) Western New England (GNAC)   0.731 (19-7)   19-7
12.    9.292 (67) Babson (NEWMAC)   0.625 (15-9)   16-9
13.    9.250 (69) Bridgewater State (MASCAC)   0.708 (17-7)   17-7
14.    9.190 (72) Colby (NESCAC)   0.667 (14-7)   15-10
15.    8.870 (95) Gordon (CCC)   0.696 (16-7)   19-7
16.    8.800 (97) Elms (NAC)   0.680 (17-8)   18-8
17.    8.800 (98) Lasell (NAC)   0.600 (15-10)   16-10
18.    8.720 (103) Endicott (CCC)   0.600 (15-10)   15-10
19.   8.696 (108) Williams (NESCAC)   0.565 (13-10)   14-11
20.   8.600 (114) Middlebury (NESCAC)   0.600 (15-10)   15-10

East Region (Region rank, QOWI, Overall rank, Team, Conference, Region win pct., Region record, Overall record)
1.    10.400 (10) Brockport State (SUNYAC)   0.840 (21-4)   22-4
2.    10.292 (15) St. Lawrence (LL)   0.792 (19-5)   20-5
3.    10.217 (19) Rochester (UAA)   0.739 (17-6)   17-7
4.    10.208 (21) St. John Fisher (E8)   0.792 (19-5)   20-5
5.     9.870 (38) New York University (UAA)   0.783 (18-5)   19-5
6.     9.762 (46) Hamilton (LL)   0.714 (15-6)   18-6
7.     9.348 (62) Utica (E8)   0.739 (17-6)   18-6
8.     9.190 (71) Plattsburgh State (SUNYAC)   0.714 (15-6)   18-8
9.     8.727 (101) Vassar (LL)   0.636 (14-8)   15-9
10.   8.696 (107) Oswego State (SUNYAC)   0.609 (14-9)   15-11
11.   8.680 (111) Clarkson (LL)   0.560 (14-11)   14-11
12.   8.667 (113) Geneseo State (SUNYAC)   0.583 (14-10)   15-11
13.    8.522 (117) Rochester Tech (E8)   0.565 (13-10)   14-11
14.    8.429 (125) Ithaca (E8)  0.571 (12-9)   14-11
15.    8.391 (127) SUNYIT (SUNYAC)   0.609 (14-9)   16-10
16.    7.917 (160) RPI (LL)   0.500 (12-12)   13-12
17.    7.857 (169) Union (LL)   0.524 (11-10)   11-13
18.    7.773 (174) Alfred (E8)  0.455 (10-12)   10-14
19. 7.727 (178) Buffalo State (SUNYAC)   0.455 (10-12)   12-13
20. 7.708 (181) Hobart (LL)   0.417 (10-14)   11-14

Here are the combined regional rankings based on QOWI. In the event of a tie, and there are a few, I ranked the teams in order of their overall rank.

Combined Regions (Northeast and East)
1. (NE1)   11.625 (1) Amherst (NESCAC)   0.958 (23-1)   24-1
2. (NE2)   10.950 (3) Trinity (Conn.) (NESCAC)   0.850 (17-3)   21-3
3. (NE3)   10.810 (4) Worcester Polytech (NEWMAC)   0.905 (19-2)   21-2
4. (NE4)   10.708 (5) Salem State (MASCAC)   0.920 (23-2)   23-2
5. (NE5)   10.520 (8) Rhode Island College (LEC)   0.880 (22-3)   22-3
6. (E1)   10.400 (10) Brockport State (SUNYAC)   0.840 (21-4)   22-4
7. (E2)   10.292 (15) St. Lawrence (LL)   0.792 (19-5)   20-5
8. (E3)   10.217 (19) Rochester (UAA)   0.739 (17-6)   17-7
tie (NE6)   10.217 (20) Keene State (LEC)   0.826 (19-4)   22-4
10. (E4)    10.208 (21) St. John Fisher (E8)   0.792 (19-5)   20-5
11. (NE7)    10.125 (25) Brandeis (UAA)   0.750 (18-6)   18-6
12. (E5)     9.870 (38) New York University (UAA)   0.783 (18-5)   19-5
13. (NE8)    9.792 (42) Bates (NESCAC)   0.708 (17-7)   18-7
14. (E6)     9.762 (46) Hamilton (LL)   0.714 (15-6)   18-6
15. (NE9)    9.708 (49) Husson (NAC)   0.875 (21-3)   21-5
16. (NE10)    9.360 (61) Tufts (NESCAC)   0.600 (15-10)   15-10
17. (E7)      9.348 (62) Utica (E8)   0.739 (17-6)   18-6
18. (NE11)   9.346 (63) Western New England (GNAC)   0.731 (19-7)   19-7
19. (NE12)    9.292 (67) Babson (NEWMAC)   0.625 (15-9)   16-9
20. (NE13)    9.250 (69) Bridgewater State (MASCAC)   0.708 (17-7)   17-7
21. (E8)        9.190 (71) Plattsburgh State (SUNYAC)   0.714 (15-6)   18-8
tie (NE14)    9.190 (72) Colby (NESCAC)   0.667 (14-7)   15-10
23. (NE15)    8.870 (95) Gordon (CCC)   0.696 (16-7)   19-7
24. (NE16)    8.800 (97) Elms (NAC)   0.680 (17-8)   18-8
tie (NE17)    8.800 (98) Lasell (NAC)   0.600 (15-10)   16-10
26. (E9)        8.727 (101) Vassar (LL)   0.636 (14-8)   15-9
27. (NE18)    8.720 (103) Endicott (CCC)   0.600 (15-10)   15-10
28. (E10)      8.696 (107) Oswego State (SUNYAC)   0.609 (14-9)   15-11
tie (NE19)      8.696 (108) Williams (NESCAC)   0.565 (13-10)   14-11
30. (E11)      8.680 (111) Clarkson (LL)   0.560 (14-11)   14-11
31. (E12)       8.667 (113) Geneseo State (SUNYAC)   0.583 (14-10)   15-11
32. (NE20)   8.600 (114) Middlebury (NESCAC)   0.600 (15-10)   15-10
33. (E13)       8.522 (117) Rochester Tech (E8)   0.565 (13-10)   14-11
34. (E14)       8.429 (125) Ithaca (E8)  0.571 (12-9)   14-11
35. (E15)       8.391 (127) SUNYIT (SUNYAC)   0.609 (14-9)   16-10
36. (E16)       7.917 (160) RPI (LL)   0.500 (12-12)   13-12
37. (E17)       7.857 (169) Union (LL)   0.524 (11-10)   11-13
38. (E18)       7.773 (174) Alfred (E8)  0.455 (10-12)   10-14
39. (E19)      7.727 (178) Buffalo State (SUNYAC)   0.455 (10-12)   12-13
40. (E20)      7.708 (181) Hobart (LL)   0.417 (10-14)   11-14

I know some of these teams will get their conference bids, but there are plenty for Pool C too.

Anyone have any thoughts about Pool C bids after seeing this?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 21, 2007, 01:27:03 PM
Again, TK doesn't have to do it all becuz of his surroundings, but Avitable does. Excellent points all the way around. I'm not a huge TK fan- so it hurts for me to say he'll get it but trust me he will. Now to the tournament, Hamilton hasn't lost to any of the teams in it, period. They always say the third time is the toughest for teams to play each other. Upsets? Anything can and probably will happen this weekend. As many of you know I'm a Hamilton fan but if you want to talk about what kind of upset i'm predicting from a season long analysis, I could totally see Hamilton going home early. I hope not but it could happen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 21, 2007, 02:57:27 PM
Based upon the QOWI rankings it all depends upon who wins their tournaments. I could see almost every team winning their own tournament in the top 15 minus Utica, Brandeis, Bates, and Trinity. That would mean that they would get the bids. If all goes well. If there are any shakeups that would throw everything out of control and most likely, Hamilton wouldn't get a Pool C bid.

There are only 20 Pool C Bids and that would be 5 into the tournament from who I mentioned previously. I would just root for the leaders in all the conferences to win out through their tournaments.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 22, 2007, 11:03:15 AM
congrats to tk for the poy award. but i cant take any of the voting or the awards seriously if dutton is coach of the year. thats pathetic
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on February 22, 2007, 11:56:40 AM
any of you guys gonna go to hamilton to watch the tournament this weekend?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on February 22, 2007, 01:56:46 PM
Man I pray that WPI and Salem St win those weak a$$ conference tournaments like the MASCAC & NEWMAC.  It will frustrate me so much if one of those teams get in with a pool c bid.  Last yr in the dance if you look at it WPI beat the newmac team Bridgewater by 17 and then Utica destroys WPI and their gaudy 23-3 record by 18.  Know its a different year but if you look at one common thread this year Clarkson pounded Castleton St by about 18 or so and Castleton is 9-5 in the MASCAC.  Don't really know as much about the NAC or the LEC but I believe they are not as strong as the Liberty , E8 or SUNYAC. The NESCAC with Amherst, Trinity and Bates is a true power conference but that's the only New England Conference that deserves multiple bids without question.  As for the LL tournament I think the key if the first round.. If Hamilton falls asleep against Union and Union shoots the lights like they did against Clarkson who knows?  If Hamilton doesn't look ahead and takes care of business I think either Vassar or SLU will fall to the Conts with an NCAA bid on the line in front a raucous home crowd.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 22, 2007, 03:37:35 PM
Quote from: b4the3isme on February 22, 2007, 01:56:46 PM
Man I pray that WPI and Salem St win those weak a$$ conference tournaments like the MASCAC & NEWMAC.  It will frustrate me so much if one of those teams get in with a pool c bid.  Last yr in the dance if you look at it WPI beat the newmac team Bridgewater by 17 and then Utica destroys WPI and their gaudy 23-3 record by 18.  Know its a different year but if you look at one common thread this year Clarkson pounded Castleton St by about 18 or so and Castleton is 9-5 in the MASCAC.  Don't really know as much about the NAC or the LEC but I believe they are not as strong as the Liberty , E8 or SUNYAC. The NESCAC with Amherst, Trinity and Bates is a true power conference but that's the only New England Conference that deserves multiple bids without question.  As for the LL tournament I think the key if the first round.. If Hamilton falls asleep against Union and Union shoots the lights like they did against Clarkson who knows?  If Hamilton doesn't look ahead and takes care of business I think either Vassar or SLU will fall to the Conts with an NCAA bid on the line in front a raucous home crowd.

b4, I completely agree. If Hamilton wins its first round game against Union, the Conts will win the tourney. Obviously, they have to win the first rounder to have that chance, but what I mean is that Hamilton will have no trouble in the championship if they make it there.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 22, 2007, 03:59:03 PM
I was on the Hamilton website looking at stats and found it interesting that SLU is 3-3 against tournament field, Vassar is 2-4, and Union is 1-5, meanwhile Hamilton is 6-0, I agree w/ carter if Hamilton gets by Montana then its over.I didn't see anywhere that TK got POY but i knew he would, where is the press release?

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 22, 2007, 04:37:22 PM
I'll be at all the games this weekend. Since I only need to amble down .5 miles from my apartment to the pub and then over to the game.

Oh, and here's the link.

http://www.libertyleaguesports.org/awards/mbasketball  (http://www.libertyleaguesports.org/awards/mbasketball)

Also, does anyone find it interesting that Vassar had the most kids on the All-Academic Team and the only school to didn't have any was Hamilton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bamm on February 22, 2007, 05:56:41 PM
Interesting, yes.  Really surprising?  No.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 22, 2007, 08:27:50 PM
Bamm i agree, those new england conf. are weak (excluding nescac).  There are so many conferences up there as well, itd be a shame if there are a lot of upsets in the conf. tourny's.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on February 22, 2007, 08:42:01 PM
what are the requirements to get on the all-academic team? does anyone know?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3lifer on February 23, 2007, 08:55:05 AM
Does anyone know if tonights games are going to be broadcast on the radio?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on February 23, 2007, 11:00:21 AM
you need a 3.2 or 3.25.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 23, 2007, 03:55:03 PM
Quote from: d3hooperforlife on February 23, 2007, 08:55:05 AM
Does anyone know if tonights games are going to be broadcast on the radio?

I believe this link will work:

http://www.teamline.cc/sportpage?teamcode=1160&eventcode=6
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 23, 2007, 04:16:15 PM
is that just for the hamilton game or for the st lawrence vassar game as well
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on February 23, 2007, 06:17:18 PM
I'm not sure, but I know it will work for the Hamilton-Union game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on February 23, 2007, 08:36:00 PM
Hoaf and other attendees-  saw that SLU probably helped its pool c cause(should it not win tomorrow of course) .  How was the game? Score indicates it was pretty tight.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: maninorangehat on February 24, 2007, 03:40:05 PM
Anyone have a score from Hamilton vs. St. Lawrence??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2007, 04:53:26 PM
Quote from: maninorangehat on February 24, 2007, 03:40:05 PM
Anyone have a score from Hamilton vs. St. Lawrence??

Can't find a men's live stats page and not in a place where I can have audio going, but congrats to the Hamilton women for knocking off SLU on the road and advancing to the dance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 24, 2007, 04:58:45 PM
St. Lawrence comes back late and wins by 1 over Hamilton, 65-64.

Congrats to the Lady Conts for beating SLU!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 26, 2007, 11:45:16 AM
I'd expect both SLU and Hamilton to get an invite to the NCAAs...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on February 26, 2007, 01:06:11 PM
I would just like to say congrats to the Saints and their wonderful run. I saw that Shaver isn't playing a lot and that Augliano didn't play in either game of the tourney. Anyone know what is going on with them?

I'm sure all the teams coming to Larryland won't be ready for the comfort or lack thereof in the North Country.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 26, 2007, 02:30:31 PM
there was practically no chance of Hamilton getting into the NCAAs, and it didn't happen. I will be interested to see what happens next year w/ TK and Jones being seniors. It seemed like they had trouble scoring this year, I mean what is going to happen when talent like this leaves? Hats off to the women's coach, I think he is in his first year, if I were him i'd take off and get a good d3 job somewhere else (mens team). I will be pulling for SLU in tourney so we'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 26, 2007, 04:49:55 PM
Same here. I'd rather have an LL member win out than a NESCAC school or a UW- Steven's Point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 27, 2007, 09:44:36 AM
Predictions for this wkend:
1st Round:

Fisher +11

UofR +7

St. Lawrence +4

Bport +2

Wooster  +7

Centre + 4

John Carrol +6

2nd round:

Fisher vsUofR  - Fisher +1

Bport Vs St. Lawrence - Bport +2

Wooster vs Centre - Wooster+5

lake Erie vs John Carrol - Lake Eirre +4
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 27, 2007, 09:51:05 AM
I think that first round Bport prediction should be a little higher.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on February 27, 2007, 02:12:57 PM
Crazy weekend in the liberty league.  Rather dissapointed in Vassar, they had an opprotunity to beat St. Lawrence but were unable to close as has been there MO all year.  Had a lead in the final minutes but couldnt come up big when needed.  Brazell and Avitabile were impressive again but nobody else really showed up.  Props to St. Lawrence though, they are not an impressive team but they pull out victories.  On another note, Vassar got the #1 seed in the ECAC tournament with RPI and Clarkson also getting in.  Lastly, I was impressed with Hamilton fans, they had a lot of numbers and were very loud and supportive.  They are lucky to have an administration and refs that lets them be so vocal, that would not have been tolerated at many other schools in the conference even though it should be. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 27, 2007, 02:19:53 PM
I"m glad you pointed that out about the fans at Hamilton.

Being a member of the a loud vocal fan and member of the student body i have been disappointed how the administration has handled the "Dawg Pound", which is out loud section right behind the hoop. At one point I believe they were told that they couldn't come to games any more and then they came back later on in the season despite league officials not being happy about it.

Compared to Division I school our fans are nothing. I wish we could have a student section that could do pretty much whatever we want within decency. It disappoints me that LL officials got angered by the "Dawg Pound" in the first place.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on February 27, 2007, 02:30:35 PM
I hear ya on that Hoaf.  Same with our fans the past few seasons have been amazing, until their was the scuffle between Fisher and Naz bball teams, then the fans could no longer stay in the front row.  For the remainder of that year they had to sit up in the rafters, it was pretty rediculous.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on February 27, 2007, 03:28:32 PM
Where are the ECAC invites?  I'm glad we got 3 teams in.  Everyone thinks the LL is the lesser of the three major upstate NY leagues but when Clarkson has wins over Utica, Oswego and RIT I think that says a lot.  I thought that Vassar plays in the downstate ECAC tournament?  Are they in the same one as RPI and Clarkson?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on February 27, 2007, 05:11:41 PM
The vassar website says... Following Vassar is the ECAC Upstate Tournament is No. 2 seed Oswego followed by SUNY IT, Ithaca College, RPI, Clarkson, Rochester Institute of Technology and Hilbert.

And I agree with everyone in terms of the attitude of Liberty League officials.  We should be encouraging fans to support their teams not muting them.  Numerous fans have been removed from games this year and it is too bad.  Compared to many colleges LL fans are very tame.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 27, 2007, 07:45:45 PM
Quote from: DDirty22 on February 27, 2007, 05:11:41 PM
Compared to many colleges LL fans are very tame.

Well said.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 28, 2007, 01:02:56 PM
Interesting bracket for the Upstate teams.  Looks like a veritable "Escape from New York".  My guess is Fisher and SLU meet up in the Sweet 16.  Should be a good one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on February 28, 2007, 02:14:21 PM
I had the same thing with SLU playing Fisher in the 16. I think Fisher would win that game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on February 28, 2007, 05:02:33 PM
dd 22 and other Vassar guys out there.  Will be outright shocked if Vassar doesn't take care of Hilbert tonight. Hilbert's Reinard is a pretty good player I'm told.  Point guard Reyes is OK at best-would not play much in LL in my opinion.  Shooting guard is lefty named Ulfland-  DO NOT LET THIS GUY SHOOT STANDING STILL!!!   Make him put the ball on the floor to get his shots.  Almost all points come on threes ( he put up 41 in a game awhile ago with 11 3's).  Challenge him wherever he is 20 ft 25 ft prob even 30 ft and make him put the ball on the ground.  They will not have an answer for Avitiable.  Clarkson at SUNYIT intrigues me- defense minded Clarkson against run & gun SUNYIT.  We'll see what happens there!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 28, 2007, 11:40:29 PM
Vassar won by 17, the Brewers will host my Ithaca Bombers in the semis on Friday, which is freakin sweet cuz I definitely didn't think I'd get a chance to see IC play in person this season.  Should be a really good game, anxious to see the Lawrence Avitabile vs. Jeff Bostic matchup.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on March 01, 2007, 09:45:32 AM
I'm disappointed that Hamilton doesn't play in the ECAC. I think they could run through the early rounds easily and make a run for the title.

What's the reason they don't?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: John McGraw on March 01, 2007, 11:34:43 AM
Could be any number of reasons as per usual.

Prior to being eligible for NCAA tournament play, Hamilton went to ECACs for almost 20 years, from 1974-75 through 1993-94. Since the first NCAA tournament appearance in 1994-95, they've only gone to ECACs once, and that was in 2000-2001.

This year is only the fourth time that Hamilton hasn't qualified for NCAA tournament play since the mid-90s. 2000-01, 2001-02 and 2004-05 are the other three years that they didn't make it.

I don't see anything wrong with it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on March 01, 2007, 12:38:19 PM
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I would just enjoy watching them play in the tournament.

Glad to hear Vassar won their game. They're a good team when their role players begin to play well. If they don't, they're a two man team with Avitabile and Brazzel.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: lileyes on March 01, 2007, 02:19:32 PM
Hamilton can't be in the ECAC tourny because they are part of the NESCAC
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on March 01, 2007, 05:00:18 PM
I think that U of R has similiar reasons for not playing in the ECAC's if they don't qualify for the NCAA's.  What I was wondering if anyone knows why Geneseo didn't go to the ECAC's?  Certainly they were more deserving than Hilbert and probably a couple of the other teams also?! 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 12:58:47 AM
Hello LLPU peoples, we're collecting previews for each team in the tourney on one of the multiregional boards. If I get them by Friday I may even be able to stick them in one document for people to peruse. A fun little tourney resource of sorts. Would someone here be willing to do one for St. Lawrence for me? Thanks much!

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5147.0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on March 02, 2007, 05:02:44 PM
Diehard- this may sound strange but I think if you need an unbiased objective opinion on SLU ask The Bear over on the SUNYAC board.  He's about 10 miles down the road in Potsdam and his analysis is usually deed spot on.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 02, 2007, 06:24:22 PM
SLU is a suprising team.  They are deep, physically strong, and tough minded.

They have athletes:

Williams - 6-5PF/ Sharlow 5-9 PG

They have basketball players:

Wopperer - SF 6-4, SG Blue 5-7, SG Shaver 6-3, PF Augliano 6-6

They have a big physical wide body in Bela Vonnak who will become another Seth Hauben, 6-6, can shoot, big physical presence in the lane and on the low blocks.

They can score inside or out.  They have the size and quickness to get out on shooters, or challenge shots inside.

They are well-coached, Downs is a Paulsen protege. 

The school has invested in the program.  Indiana (NBA) coach Rick Carlisle's dad, a SLU grad, led a fund-raising drive that significantly enhanced the SLU Gym last year into a very nice state of the art 1500 seat facility.

In the first round, Elms plays in a weak league, but has some talent, I just think the step up in class will be too much for Elms, particularly this far from home.

Second round

I think SLU can handle Williams.  Looking at the who played who, Williams is a similar team in terms of the type of player, and won't scare SLU with their athleticism.  Since their coaches are mentor/master, I suspect they run the same stuff, so there won't be a lot of surprises.

BROCKPORT (See my analysis on the SUNYAC board shortly) beat SLU by 30 earlier in the season.  I think a street-ball athletic team that's very deep like Brockport will give SLU fits, especially if they get an early lead & take the crowd out of the game.  I don't think SLU can run & gun with the likes of Brockport.  If they can get & keep a lead and run a patient half-court game, that's their only chance.

Be back after dinner with a long-delayed preview of Plattsburgh & Brockport on the SUNYAC board.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: woot returns on March 02, 2007, 07:27:11 PM
Hamilton Girls advance to teh second round of NCAA tournament with 58-55 win over mount st. mary. They play 3rd seeded scranton in the second round.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on March 02, 2007, 09:07:00 PM
Bear there's a link to Diehards I'd try to copy and forward to her but I'm computer challenged. The link is at the bottom of her post a few b4 yours. My apologies if you've already accomplised this but since I volunteered your sevices in the first place I want to make sure it gets into the compiled pdf that Diehard may create.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2007, 10:22:30 PM
What's happening in the SLU game against Elms.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on March 02, 2007, 10:23:51 PM
SLU won by about 6 I think after having a lead as large as 18.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2007, 10:33:20 PM
b4the3isme   

Thank you. Figured they would win but thought it would be by more. Must have gotten sloppy after having the big lead.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on March 03, 2007, 01:39:12 AM
vassar advances to the finals of the ecacs with an 84-76 win over ithaca.

avitables lines in the first two games:
23pts, 10rbs, 7asts, blk, 3stls
20pts, 13rbs, ast, 4blks, 5stls

this kid is unbelievable. tk is a great player, but he cant do what avitable does on any given night.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on March 03, 2007, 01:12:55 PM
That's because TK's not on such a poor team as Avitabile. Vassar is doing well in the ECAC but I'm surprised because of how poor they've played when I've been in attendance during LL games this year.

If TK was on a lower caliber team he would be putting up similar numbers. Hamilton has at least 3 or 4 players that he had to share the ball with this year and he still put up excellent numbers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on March 03, 2007, 03:56:13 PM
vassar wins ecacs on two free throws by lenny holt with 5 seconds left.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on March 04, 2007, 01:39:55 PM
Interesting subplot with one of the NCAA Sweet 16 teams. Josh Loeffler, former Hamilton and SLU assistant is the head coach of Stevens Tech. They received an at-large bid after losing in their conference semis. Congrats to him, I'm sure Coach Muprhy and Coach Downs are proud.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on March 05, 2007, 06:01:24 PM
Congrats to Vassar on ECAC win.  I'm pretty sure that every single game in that tournament played out according to seeding, which makes the organizers look like Einsteins. Glad to see some success for the oft maligned LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 08:55:14 AM
B4the3some, on your post in the E8 board. I think Amherst is going to go all the way this year or lose to stevens point, They have soo much fire power its insane, they will most likely face Wooster but ill take amherst by about 5.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on March 06, 2007, 09:16:04 AM
most games haven't been that close with a few exceptions.  tgp expects tighter contests with the sweet 16 upon us.

btw - what happened with slu?  looks like brockport really took it to them.  not even close.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on March 06, 2007, 11:59:23 AM
anyone from the LL going to make the all-region team? i dont really know enough about other conferences to comment, although i would expect tk to make it. im pullin for avitable and grazioli to make it as well, give the LL the recognition it deserves.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on March 06, 2007, 04:57:22 PM
Fish Dyn - I'll take that bet.  Amherst is a great team but I think they are down from previous years and the league is also.  They lost a couple of late league games to Trinity and to Williams in the tournament.  Trinity took an earlier exit from the dance compliments of Brandeis which was a UAA also ran. Williams got beat by Brockport and I think at home early in the year by a LL also ran RPI.  To further compound Brandeis took a seat to Rhode Island that barely got by 14-13 Coast Guard at home.  So my gut feeling is that while that bracket is usually nasty it is not where it has been in recent years.   I still think Amherst comes out of it but once you get them out of their home environment at Salem they'll have problems.  P.S. of the 4 bids the UAA got (Wash U, Chicago, UR & Brandeis) only Wash U is alive and they face UW- st pt this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 05:30:21 PM
I understand your agrument how they have lost as of late and the league is down. However, how do you figure Amherst is down? they only lost 1 key contributor from last years team (bedford).  Everyone else has another year of experience and growth,  not to mention they had an amazing bench to take bedfords place in a second.  Their 6-10 guys could start on any team on the east coast (obviously not all on the same team but a few for each).  I think Wooster talent wise is the only team that compares, however, I dont think they are as deep or as big at the guard spots as amherst.  Also, Woosters starting 4 man has been hurt and is coming off the bench, Just not deep enough in my opinion.  If amherst is shooting well which they usually are they are pretty much unbeatable.  Also, trinity and williams are in their league, league games are much tougher to win, since you play a few times and know the inn's and outs to a tee. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on March 06, 2007, 07:19:42 PM
Fish Dyn- again my arguement stems from the loss of a 3rd team all-american (bedford) who was not only the leading scorer but rebounder as a 6'3" guard, also I'm pretty sure that John Casnocha a 6'6" forward who averaged close to double figures also graduated. I'm pretty sure both were starters for the whole season.  Don't get me wrong other than a NY team I'd love for Amherst to kick some mid-western butt, but they lost some big time players and I can't see them beating Wooster in Salem (should that be the matchup).  In fact should SJF or B-port or even J Car come out of the bracket, for the first time in years, I think, at Salem even one of these lesser teams may have a least a shot at Amherst.  I'm not a Lord Jeff hater by any means, other than B-port & SJF, they are my sentimental favorite as my Dad went there.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on March 06, 2007, 07:26:31 PM
P.S. Fish Dyn I hope everything I said doesn't come true!  I'd love for there to be a BEAST FROM THE EAST!!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 06, 2007, 07:27:19 PM
I didnt notice Casnocha was gone as well, that does hurt a little bit.  Bedford was a hell of a player and his loss does hurt.  I do know that amherst had some very good players come off the bench last year (6'7 transfer from Brown, 6'10 big guy, a very good shooter, and another 6'7 all around good player).  Olsen is one of the top pg's in the country and the team is very well coached.  Should be interesting, I hope to see Wooster play at sjfc then maybe i'll have a better opinion. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: b4the3isme on March 08, 2007, 04:18:22 PM
Fish Dyn- sounds logical to me.  Come back on and give me an opinion!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on March 09, 2007, 02:39:18 PM
any truth to a rumor I heard twice now floating around that Skidmore is looking for a new coach?  I believe the sources that told me, but haven't seen anything...I think there are a few Skidmore posters around here...anybody have some news?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on March 10, 2007, 02:29:19 PM
Anyone think the LL will have anybody on the All-Region team?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 10, 2007, 02:34:38 PM
Quote from: UCAAHoops21 on March 09, 2007, 02:39:18 PM
any truth to a rumor I heard twice now floating around that Skidmore is looking for a new coach?  I believe the sources that told me, but haven't seen anything...I think there are a few Skidmore posters around here...anybody have some news?

I don't know the status of the search process, but I know Coach Q is out at Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on March 14, 2007, 02:18:46 PM
Avitabile first team all region, TK second team. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on March 14, 2007, 03:46:55 PM
guess the region voters gave credit where credit is due. its about time he got the respect he deserves. only player from the conference on first team.

tk where you at homey? oh, my bad, i see you down there on the second team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on March 15, 2007, 10:42:15 AM
It's too bad that the region's voters didn't give credit where credit was due.

Avitibile is not first-team material. Definitely second-team.

TK should switch spots. Vassar has a mediocre team with one good player and a ECAC tourney win doesn't make you a good team.

I've been saying this for awhile, that if TK was on a mediocre team he would put up 30pts with 10 rebounds a game. Much better numbers than Mr. A.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on March 19, 2007, 01:23:45 PM
hoaf - its pretty obvious that you have no clue about vassar. talent is not the reason vassar put up a mediocre record. they had as much talent as anyone in the conference. theyre issue is coaching. dutton is horrendous - they would be better off with you coaching them, trying to throw the games. and im not even kidding.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 19, 2007, 01:44:06 PM
not considering incoming players, who has the most returners and would be predicted to start the LL off in 1st place?  St. Lawrence?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on March 19, 2007, 10:07:39 PM
Quote from: bucketsallday on March 19, 2007, 01:23:45 PM
hoaf - its pretty obvious that you have no clue about vassar. talent is not the reason vassar put up a mediocre record. they had as much talent as anyone in the conference. theyre issue is coaching. dutton is horrendous - they would be better off with you coaching them, trying to throw the games. and im not even kidding.

Hilarious! I had no idea it was the coaching. But how can they be a good team with a slow post player like Will Kieffer slowing down everyone on the court.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on March 22, 2007, 09:31:19 AM
Skidmore job posted on NCAA website, skidmore's website says Q retired...I heard a much different story.  Anybody know who might be in the running for the job?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rjcarter8 on March 27, 2007, 12:32:28 PM
Quote from: UCAAHoops21 on March 22, 2007, 09:31:19 AM
Skidmore job posted on NCAA website, skidmore's website says Q retired...I heard a much different story.  Anybody know who might be in the running for the job?

Not sure about possibilities. What did you hear about Quatrocchi leaving? I know things had been down, but he'd also been there a while.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: lileyes on April 24, 2007, 10:45:09 AM
http://www2.skidmore.edu/athletics/news/details.cfm?ID=905
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on April 24, 2007, 10:50:32 AM
Huh. It's nice to see someone on the Amherst staff get some recognition.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on April 25, 2007, 08:56:45 AM
I thought the job was Andy Goodemote's if he wanted it.  He must of thought that they weren't willing to do the necessary things for the team to be successful. I heard that he still lives in Ballston Spa where his wife is physician.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SBell on May 01, 2007, 04:25:49 PM
Michigan point guard to Rochester ...

http://www.bankhoops.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4133&start=60

Comes from Trevor Huffman's alma mater and a league in Northern Michigan, where by point of comparison three of the other four who joined him on the all-league team will be DI players, and preceding him as the all-league point guard was another DI player.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on August 23, 2007, 02:30:54 PM
any news on the LL yet????Good incoming classes?  Someone from Hamilton needs to confirm that Alston is no longer there?  How about anything from Skidmore?
I am guessing that SLU is the odds on favorite to win, with Hamilton, Union, Hobart, Vassar & RPI all in the mix somewhere
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: slickyquick on August 23, 2007, 07:22:49 PM
Alston is done at Hamilton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on August 24, 2007, 11:55:48 PM
Vassar is returning there top 4 scorers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on August 26, 2007, 11:54:27 PM
vassar just picked up two new assistants .... one is a guy that coached at amherst the last two years, and the other coached at western ct for four years. dont know much else about them. the brewers will be thin up front, but are loaded with perimeter talent - maybe better than stl.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on September 03, 2007, 08:30:40 PM
They have the future conference MVP in Avitabile up front, what else do they need?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebigcat on September 22, 2007, 04:59:38 PM
Not only do they have avitiable, they also have brazell, and expect big things from Joey Davis.  Top 15 in scoring this year.
Title: Skidmore
Post by: tbredshoops on September 29, 2007, 03:05:11 AM
Some news from Skidmore....Harry Zwick went down with a torn ACL during a pick up game this week...its a pretty devastating blow as the tbreds were looking for him to help carry the offensive load...on the upside...Richie "size" Toni returns to the court for his senior season...He might be the biggest surprise player in the league
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on September 29, 2007, 10:55:01 AM
rich toni sucks, he only has a right hand. he wont be a difference maker for skidmore. they had a decent freshmann class last year, any recruits this year? what about other schools ... how are the incoming freshman looking? word is vassar brought in a 2 guard thats solid and will give some good minutes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on October 24, 2007, 01:49:33 PM
Anyone have any news from the first week and a half of practice?  Who looks good?  anyone have any news on how teams are shaping up?  Alston is gone from Hamilton, anyone else missing from last season anywhere else?  SLU has to be the team to beat right now...right?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on November 03, 2007, 08:31:13 PM
I heard Hamilton has a good recruiting class (weird). Apparently some big guy that is suppose to play right away, plus rumor has it Georgi isn't on the team anymore and that can only help them. Should be a good year in the Liberty League with no clear front runner.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on November 11, 2007, 12:34:41 AM
It will be interesting to see if Hamilton can do anything this year.  If they continue to fall behind the pace that Murphy set for so many years, it would be a shame (for Hamilton supporters, at least).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on November 12, 2007, 01:59:19 AM
Saw Clarkson in a exhibition game against a Canadian team Algonquin.   Very sloppy in the beginning, wondered if either team was going to get to double digits by the end of the first half.  Algonquin took nine point lead early in the second half.  Had a really athletic big that played catch with himself on the boards but only shot 7 for 18.  Algonquin also had quick pt guard and one decent shooting guard.  Clarkson plays by committee with several( probably 10 players) getting 15-20 minutes each.  Canadians didn't have the depth so Clarkson came back to win. Elson Pickering could be a sleeper in the league.  If he worked really hard all the time he'd really be a load 6'7" 260 lbs.  Bigs had trouble keeping the canadian bigs off the boards.  Seemed like Clarkson had an unlimited supply of tough hard nosed guards that were interchangeable from 1-3. All Clarkson players did an excellent job down the stretch making their foul shots.  Probably 7for-8 in the last minute, to pull out a 7 point victory.  Don't think they'll have the horses to compete with Vassar or SLU.  Union will also be a tough match up for them.  Haven't seen Hobart or RPI, and we all know that Hamilton will be tough.  Anybody else out there that can give an update?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on November 12, 2007, 01:09:17 PM
Ok, Murphy is gone.........do we have to go there again this year, and how about this and we can keep this post up for later reference, There are no Murphy players left at Hamilton, but lets take a look at the stats and Hamilton has had a better record SINCE Murphy's departure, those are the stats, and they do not lie.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on November 12, 2007, 05:55:26 PM
Shooters- are you sure that Hamilton has had a better record the last 3 years under Anderson than under Murphy??

in Anderson's 3 years Hamilton has gone 15-11, 23-5, and 19-7...that is 57-23...a winning percentage of .757

in the last 5 years under Murphy Hamilton had records of 19-8, 18-9, 16-9, 23-6, and 19-8...a total of 95-40...a winning percentage of .704...and if we look at only the last 3 years under Murphy Hamilton was 58-23...just a shade higher than the 3 years under Anderson

the comparison of Anderson to Murphy is unfair...Anderson is still young and has a lot to prove, but unfortunately when you fire a guy who won over 600 games in 30+ years and has a career winning percentage of .697 that is going to happen

also we have to remember that outside of Nick Jones and a few transfers, the only "Anderson guy" ito play a major role on the team during the last 3 years is Harlee Wood...the guys who carried the team the last few years were Welchons, Peck and Ngobeni (in no particular order)

now we get to see what Anderson can really do now that Hamilton has more or less "officially" become his program since there aren't any lingering Murphy guys still around as you said...all Anderson's guys now...let's see what he can do...personally I think they'll finish 3rd or 4th in the league
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on November 12, 2007, 09:38:18 PM
Anybody seen Vassar or SLU play yet?  How about Hobart, RPI or Union?  Skidmore has a new coach any news from there?  Wondered who looks good? Saw Clarkson but no one else yet..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on November 14, 2007, 11:41:28 AM
Good stats, D3follower!

I think your stats state exactly my point which is the Hamilton program hasn't dropped off since Anderson took over, and for someone to say the program is falling behind the pace Murphy set isn't true at all, in fact it is in the exact shape Murphy left it in, according to the winning percentage. I also agree that lets see what he can do now, it is officially "his" program. I think they will be top three in the league but its gonna be a pretty good year for the Liberty League, a lot of good teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on November 17, 2007, 08:57:11 AM
Clarkson takes Albany Pharm relatively easily.  Frosh Lasita shoots the 3 well scores 15 in 16 minutes.  Rest of team provides balanced scoring. Tough to believe Albany Pharm has 2 wins... not a strong team.  Clarkson faces an athletic Potsdam team in championship which beat Ithaca by going to the boards and tough pressure defense late in a close game.  Ithaca was missing all league player Bostic who is still with football team. Potsdam will be a stern test and probably a better indication as to where Clarkson is.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on November 17, 2007, 04:55:30 PM
vassar and slu are both going to be loaded this year. vassar has alot of guys that cause matchup problems - larry avitable, joey davis and tyson brazell can all play four positions, and all are versatile offensive players. solid point guard combo of lenny holt and danny forcella that complement each others styles very well - forcella is a dead eye shooter, while holt is more of a play maker. butterworth is streaky, but when hes on could be the best shooter in the conference. matt nunn and jon swartz are both good role players, but kyle magnus is the x-factor of this years team. if he can rebound, block shots, and provide a presence in the paint on both ends, vassar could go a long way.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on November 21, 2007, 01:33:59 AM
I'm really anxious to see Vassar this year.  Haven't seen them for years but I believe they could be the team to beat along with SLU.  Hamilton lost a lot to graduation so they may have trouble being the favorite this year.  Hobart beating St John Fisher tonight is also very interesting.  Love to hear about that game.  I always love to see the mighty Cardinals take a little tumble.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on November 23, 2007, 12:19:32 PM
Weird how Hamilton is the only undefeated team in the LL right now, and what about STL with two losses already before we even get started with league play? I was concerned about depth and the ability to score with the Conts, but after putting up 85 and 92 I guess that wasn't a valid concern. It will be interesting to see how the Conts fair against Middlebury, that may be the game that sets the tone for the Conts this year, actually Utica should be a good game as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on November 23, 2007, 01:04:16 PM
Quote from: shooters on November 23, 2007, 12:19:32 PM
Weird how Hamilton is the only undefeated team in the LL right now, and what about STL with two losses already before we even get started with league play? I was concerned about depth and the ability to score with the Conts, but after putting up 85 and 92 I guess that wasn't a valid concern. It will be interesting to see how the Conts fair against Middlebury, that may be the game that sets the tone for the Conts this year, actually Utica should be a good game as well.

Yes, it's true Hamilton is off to an undefeated start, now 3-0, but before you start trumpeting how good the Conts are, a closer inspection of the teams they beat shws a combined record of 2-6. Two of the teams Hamilton beat are winless (Medgar Evers, 85-62, and Emmanuel, 78-74), while Pitt-Bradford (a 92-76 win) is 2-1. Pitt-Bradford beat Morrisville (which is 1-1, with a win over Medgar Evers) and Westminster (Pa.), which is 0-3.

The four-point victory over Emmanuel, which also has lost to a 1-2 Moravian team (82-73) and a 2-1 MIT team (76-70).

I'm not saying Hamilton won't finish in the top 4 in the LL, but its 3-0 record isn't as impressive as it seems.

Just some food for thought.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on November 23, 2007, 04:09:58 PM
Middlebury will be the test.  They should be a strong team this year - probably a top four NESCAC team.  If Hamilton plays them even, it should be a pretty good indicator that they will have a solid season.  I agree though, that you can't tell anything from the teams they have played up to this point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on November 25, 2007, 11:43:35 PM
Clarkson loses 2 over the weekend.  Lost a well played squeeker to Hilbert in OT and got blown out by RIT. RIT looked very good with several freshman contributing.  Clarkson had trouble with the quickness of RIT in the early going and never really got into the game.  Also started slow against Hilbert but battled back from a 9 point half time deficit so send the game to OT but lost by 3.  They will have to take care of the ball better if they want to even contend with the best teams in the LL. Hopefull they can regroup against Caz.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on November 27, 2007, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: with age comes? on November 12, 2007, 09:38:18 PM
Anybody seen Vassar or SLU play yet?  How about Hobart, RPI or Union?  Skidmore has a new coach any news from there?  Wondered who looks good? Saw Clarkson but no one else yet..

Haven't seen them, but Hobart (2-1) just upset E8 favorite SJF 84-80 other night. 

Sr Fwd John Grazioli was named RACA P.O.T.W. for posting his third straight 27-point effort on the Cardinal's home floor, and added a season-high nine rebounds.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2007, 08:47:31 PM
Hobart by 9 at home over Alfred; Salzmann drops 29 for Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on November 28, 2007, 10:35:19 PM
The LL is looking very weak this year.  Not many (maybe not any) good wins so far.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on December 01, 2007, 12:58:47 AM
Hobart win over SJF is a pretty good win if you ask me.  Fisher tonight beat a really good RIT team that I have seen.  And Hobart probably won't even make the ll tournament.  I suspect the frontrunners are Vassar, SLU, Hamilton and Union with Hobart and RPI potentiallly figuring in the mix. Clarkson and Skidmore will have to improve and both are young teams so that could happen too. I can also tell you without question the bottomdwellers of the E-8 (or E-9 with the addition of Stevens) are not as good as Clarkson or Skidmore.  Best of three upsate leagues will probably be SUNYAC. I've seen Potsdam and they were very good (beaten by Oswego tonight though) and I think they would defintely be a tournament team in LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 01, 2007, 09:56:27 AM
Fisher looks to be down this year, at least so far missing a player.  Supposed favorite St. Lawrence is 1-3, losing to a poor Bates team along the way.  Union has yet to impress.  Other contenders like Hamilton and Vassar have piled up wins against truly poor competition, so who knows with them.  Maybe I'll turn out to be wrong, but right now I don't get sense that the LL will be much of a force this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on December 01, 2007, 11:13:50 AM
Agreed


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on December 02, 2007, 01:56:08 AM
We all have our opinions.  Bates was 18-7 last year with a 3-6 record in the toughest conference in the east. Vassar team virtually intact that beat a supposedly very talented Ithaca team last year in the championship game of the ECAC.  Ithaca (a team that beat Hartwick by about 40 points today). The SUNYAC will definitely be the cream but I'm not ready to count out the whole LL yet. Hamilton, Vassar and surprisingly Hobart have all been playing well.  SLU will have to be accounted for by the end of the season. Even last years' dog Skidmore is 3-3.  Worst seems to be Clarkson after a really ugly loss to Cazenovia today, but the team is young and has time to gel.  Not likely to happen vs Plattsburg on Tues though.  Certainly Alfred and Elmira don't look to be particularly strong in E-9 as both have yet to win. RPI has been playing a tough schedule and Union starts slow.  It is a little tough for the players down there now as the school is on break from before Thanksgiving until Jan.  I can't believe there's too much excitiment down there, but they tend to be a second half team and improve when the stiudent body returns.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 02, 2007, 08:29:24 AM
Bates is a totally different team from that one last year.  The non-conference schedule they play also contributes to their normal decent record.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 04, 2007, 10:59:43 PM
rough start for St. Lawrence - won't get much easier with a decent Ithaca team coming up and they get Brockport right out of the break
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on December 05, 2007, 02:56:31 PM
Quote from: met_fan on December 04, 2007, 10:59:43 PM
rough start for St. Lawrence - won't get much easier with a decent Ithaca team coming up and they get Brockport right out of the break

Noticed that as well.  1-4?  Haven't kept up on hoops as much as football, but I always remember the Larries having one of the best hoop programs in the LL for some time.

Also, what's up with a 7-1 Vassar?  Are they that good or are they playing a soft schedule? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on December 06, 2007, 07:38:13 PM
Haven't seen Vassar play but they were pretty good last year (ECAC champs with a victory over a pretty decent Ithaca team) and they pretty much returned their key players intact to this team.  So far this year they may be the favorite over SLU and Hamilton, but the season is young.  Saw Clarkson play a very athletic Plattsburg team pretty well on Tues.  Ended up losing by about 10 or eleven but were up 10 points early before Plattsburg went into a nasty full court zone trap press.  Plattsburg was ranked 11th here last I looked and they do have 2 former "upper division" transfers from Morgan State and Post.  They may have taken Clarkson a little lightly and truly they were never in any danger of losing but Clarkson did improve their play dramatically over recent efforts.  I can't understand SLU except to say that I'm surprised by their poor start.  There is no way I would have predicted a loss to Potsdam State!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on December 06, 2007, 07:53:16 PM
Potsdam SLU game was what D-III basketball is all about.  Neither team led by more than 6, everytime one team got an edge, the other team staged a mini-run & came back.  SLU was hampered by the athleticism of Potsdam's guards, and the press.

End Game was primarily a matter of SLU missing 4 of 6 FT's in the last minute. 

Don't understand why SLU isn't playing better.  They have 9 of their top 10 from last year's NCAA team back.  They have a solid PG in Sharlow, good shooters in Wopperer, Shaver & Hoercher, and both athletes (Williams & Wright) and Wide Bodies (Vonnak & Kurtz) in the post.  Ben Augliano, a 6-6 athletic wing who can also play the post was injured and played sparingly, last year he was a key for SLU vs. Potsdam.

With next two games upcoming vs. Ithaca and Brockport, SLU could be looking at 1-6 out of the gate.  That said, they still have the talent to win the LL.

Statistical oddity - both teams had six players in double figures, in 37 years around D-III hoops, that's the first time I remember seeing 12 players in doubles in a game.

Win for Potsdam was HUGE (to quote Billy Fucillo), they were facing a four game losing streak of their own, heading into conference play, but regrouped and got solid contributions all around to pull out the victory.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on December 06, 2007, 08:21:11 PM
Was hoping to get a comment from the bear!  Very incitful as always.  Did the guards go to the offensive glass well?(that I thought was their key to victory over Ithaca early in the season) of course every Ithaca fan knows that Bostic did not play and could have affected that outcome, but other than Plattsburgh I don't think I've seen more athletic guards this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on December 07, 2007, 12:36:40 AM
Age - you are correct.

Potsdam had 17 O rebs to 22 D Rebs for SLU as they outrebounded the Saints 40-34. Bear guards had 10 of those O rebounds.  6'0 soph Anthony Williams Jr. lead all rebounders with 8 total.  He was All Tournament in the opening NCI at Clarkson, and continues to be a solid contributor for Potsdam. 

That may be SLU's weakness.  Other than Sharlow, they don't have a lot of backcourt athleticism.  They do have big strong guards who are excellent perimeter shooters.  Wopperer is a huge D-III 2 guard at 6-4/210, but quickness is the key in O rebounding.  Williams and Wright are solid athletic post players, but the Saints can't put out a lineup of very quick athletic folks at 1-3.  In the LL they may be OK, but they will struggle against the likes of 'port and Plattsburgh.

Ithaca game will be interesting, as Saints have the size & depth to match up well with Bombers up front.  Key will be kepping Burton in check.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on December 08, 2007, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: shooters on November 23, 2007, 12:19:32 PM
It will be interesting to see how the Conts fair against Middlebury, that may be the game that sets the tone for the Conts this year, actually Utica should be a good game as well.

Just saw the score for the Hamilton-Middlebury game, 73-62 Middlebury. Shooters better hope that game doesn't set the tone for the year, though it is Hamilton's first loss of the season. Looks like poor shooting in the first half did the the Conts in.

Overall, the day seemed to be a weird one for the LL. RPI evened its record at 3-3 with a win over now 4-3 Wentworth Tech; while Skidmore evens its recrd at 4-4 with a loss to 5-3 Westfield State. Meanwhile, Clarkson is now 2-5 with a win over 4-4 Potsdam, and Union (now 3-3) actually beat a now 1-8 So. Vermont. The last score was reversed on the D3Hoops scoreboard, the others apear to check out correctly.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on December 09, 2007, 09:02:18 PM
Buck1053:

I thought Hamilton played them pretty close, a lot closer than SLU did!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on December 10, 2007, 09:04:29 AM
Quote from: shooters on December 09, 2007, 09:02:18 PM
Buck1053:

I thought Hamilton played them pretty close, a lot closer than SLU did!

Hamilton did play them closer than St. Lawrence, which lost by 19, and also than Union, which got whacked by 27 points. RPI lost by less than Hamilton, though, only 9 points.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on December 10, 2007, 04:57:36 PM
So much for Hobart's hot start after last weekend.  Looks like Izzi and Co need to go back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on December 12, 2007, 07:54:03 PM
Clarkson has been playing better as of late.  Game against Potsdam was the best they've played this season, even though Potsdam couldn't seem to make FT's when they needed them.  Ship for Clarkson seemed to straighten out somewhat in the lost to Plattsburgh.  Plattsburgh was definitely the superior team but Clarkson played them tough for a good portion of the game and led by 10 points early until Platt put on a nasty zone trap press. Haven't seen any other LL teams but I'm anxiously awaiting a Vassar sighting.  Have yet to see them and from all reports they seem to be the team to beat now that SLU is struggling a little.  SLU gets a tough Ithaca team, but Ithaca's excellent point guard Sean Burton may not be available after getting knocked out (as in concussion) in the Stevens game. Hamilton will be tough and RPI has probably been playing the toughest schedule so they could have talent too.  Hobart after big wins early seems to be playing inconsistently as of late and Skidmore has already won more games than they did last season.  Looking forward to a entertaining league schedule with potentially a little more parity than in previous seasons.  Union too always proves to come on late. Don't think any team will be a total "walkover" this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on December 27, 2007, 04:19:26 PM
Hobart heading south for the winter?

Daytona Beach?!?!

Nice!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballfollower on January 01, 2008, 12:37:43 AM
Hamilton goes 0-2 at Randolph-Macon...3 L's in a row drops the Conts to 4-3 on the year...trouble brewing in Clinton?? :o
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 02, 2008, 05:56:10 PM
Hobart gets handled easily down in Daytona Beach putting them at 4-6 (5 game losing streak).  Need to start picking up some wins starting with IC on 1/8!

Go Bart!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 03, 2008, 11:14:37 AM
Quote from: TGP on January 02, 2008, 05:56:10 PM
Hobart gets handled easily down in Daytona Beach putting them at 4-6 (5 game losing streak).  Need to start picking up some wins starting with IC on 1/8!

Go Bart!

Somehow, I don't think Ithaca is the medicine for what ails Hobart. The Bombers are just 5-4 overall, but losses include 11-point one at Potsdam at start of season, an 11-point one at Stevens, which is going to win the E8 this year, and a 6-point loss to Ripon at a holiday tourney. Ithaca also lost to St. Lawrence, which is awful this year, but it was only by 4 points in OT and IC was missing their starting point guard and best player in Burton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 03, 2008, 04:52:28 PM
Not only did Hamilton go 0-2 at the tourney they have Brockport this Friday, that is going to be an extremely tough game! I kind of think this tough non-league schedule will help Hamilton during league play, I know I'm biased but I'm trying to be positive, plus STL is 2-6, so that should really be the conversation.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 03, 2008, 04:53:55 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on January 03, 2008, 11:14:37 AM
Quote from: TGP on January 02, 2008, 05:56:10 PM
Hobart gets handled easily down in Daytona Beach putting them at 4-6 (5 game losing streak).  Need to start picking up some wins starting with IC on 1/8!

Go Bart!

Somehow, I don't think Ithaca is the medicine for what ails Hobart. The Bombers are just 5-4 overall, but losses include 11-point one at Potsdam at start of season, an 11-point one at Stevens, which is going to win the E8 this year, and a 6-point loss to Ripon at a holiday tourney. Ithaca also lost to St. Lawrence, which is awful this year, but it was only by 4 points in OT and IC was missing their starting point guard and best player in Burton.

I agree.  IC BB beat us pretty well last year and seem to be playing better team ball than Hobart is so far this season.  Still, Hobart did win the year before so I guess it could go either way.  Seems like after an encouraging start Hobart's either a) not good, b) ran into some good teams or c) going thru an early slump or d) some kind of combo of a-c?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hoops on January 03, 2008, 06:22:20 PM
Quick recruitng thing as I found on a New England recruiting report about a Vermont Native who has commited to Union. I have posted the link below.


http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/news/article/276/Three-More-Division-III-Commitments.php
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 05, 2008, 03:23:20 AM
Shooters-  should think your positive thinking must have rubbed off on the conts with a great win over a highly touted Brockport team (which had all their big guns back).   LL might not be as weak as some have previously indicated by their posts-  Vassar is 7-1, big win for Hamilton,  Union has won 3 in a row and they finally get their student body back next week, even lowly Skidmore now sports a winning record at 5-4.  Not sure what is wrong at SLU but a win over (albeit a Burton-less) Ithaca team is not bad, but the Saints will be marching in by the end of the year to stand up and be counted. RPI has had a tough schedule but will be in the thick of things for a playoff spot. Only Hobart and Clarkson seem to be struggling.  But the Statesmen do have a victory over SJF and Clarkson avenged 20 point loss win a win at Potsdam. Before the league starts I'm going to predict finish order (barring a major injury)

1) Vassar
2) Hamilton
3) Union
4) St Lawrence
5) RPI
6) Skidmore
7) Hobart
8) Clarkson

6-8 are interchangeable and probably will be hard pressed to really contend for a playoff spot.  1&2 could be a real dog fight too but I'm in the mood for Hamilton to be displaced. Union is  better team with the rumored Grimm reinstatement. I trust SLU to right the ship and contend for a playoff spot and RPI just always seems to be in the hunt.  Most improved - Skidmore- let's face it there was no where to go but up. Hobart and Clarkson have to get consistency but each have solid wins so I'm hoping for parity and no "walk overs" like last year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 06, 2008, 12:30:07 AM
Quote from: with age comes? on January 05, 2008, 03:23:20 AM
Union has won 3 in a row and they finally get their student body back next week, even lowly Skidmore now sports a winning record at 5-4.  Not sure what is wrong at SLU but a win over (albeit a Burton-less) Ithaca team is not bad, but the Saints will be marching in by the end of the year to stand up and be counted. RPI has had a tough schedule but will be in the thick of things for a playoff spot. Only Hobart and Clarkson seem to be struggling.  But the Statesmen do have a victory over SJF and Clarkson avenged 20 point loss win a win at Potsdam. Before the league starts I'm going to predict finish order (barring a major injury)

1) Vassar
2) Hamilton
3) Union
4) St Lawrence
5) RPI
6) Skidmore
7) Hobart
8) Clarkson

6-8 are interchangeable and probably will be hard pressed to really contend for a playoff spot.  1&2 could be a real dog fight too but I'm in the mood for Hamilton to be displaced. Union is  better team with the rumored Grimm reinstatement.

Union dropped one today, falling by 11 in the championship game of its tourney today. Saw the note on Grimm, didn't know he needed to be reinstated. I thought he was hurt, what did he do?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Hoaf on January 06, 2008, 09:35:08 AM
Glad to see Hamilton beat Brockport. I'm not too sure that Brockport is that good this year though. Maybe it was just a mediocre team playing another mediocre team.

I think Hamilton is hurting since losing Dave Alston in the off season. Jay Simpson and Harlee Wood have really stepped up this year. The freshman class for Hamilton has being playing well as well.

Glad to see you gave them some credit in your ranking. I think it's pretty close to spot on.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on January 06, 2008, 02:43:21 PM
Vassar Brewers, Early Season Mirage or L.L. Championship Bound??

The Brewers are out of the gate & off to another fast start in 2007-08.
Yet for those who haven't noticed, this has been a fairly typical occurrence over the past 3 seasons where the Brew Crew have come out strong.
In 2004-05 they started the year 6-3, 2005-06 saw more early season success when they came out a red-hot 7-1 before finishing a mere 12-12 (1-3 in over-time affairs), while last seasons team (06-07) that went on to win the ECAC Upstate Championship (Vassar 66- Oswego St 65) and also finish tied with a school record 18 wins overall, began the season 7-3.

This seasons team is obviously fueled by the senior leadership of All-Region player Lawerence Avitable (30- double-doubles in 79 games, scoring in double figures 68 out of those 79 games) and the unsung and severely underrated play of Tyson Brazell, one of the best on ball defenders in the Liberty League, whose offensive game has gotten exponentially better over his 4 years in a Vassar uniform. These two young men will need to show up every night during the Liberty League campaign if they want any chance of coming away with the Liberty League Crown. Their importance to the success of this season simply can not be overstated!

We agree with many posters here that the Brew Crew certainly have their best chance, since becoming a member of the LL, to win it, but we just aren't able to automatically put them in that top spot do to their mediocre play in-league.

If we take a closer look at the Vassar Brewers schedule to date, one could raise a few red flags as to why their fast starts may be a little deceiving.
So far this season (2007-08), the Vassar Brewers (7-1) hold down the third best overall record in the  East Region, putting them behind University of Rochester (9-0) & Geneseo (8-0) . A handful of very good two loss teams including Plattsburgh (8-2) , Nazareth (8-2) , N.Y.U (7-2), Cortland State (7-2), & Oswego (6-2) on their heels.

Vassar began the season by playing a home tournament in which they stumbled in the Championship Game to an upstart Emerson (7-0) team now boasting a perfect record on the season, with quality wins over Wheaton (9-1) and M.I.T. (8-4).
Vassar's first round win came via CUNY Conference Baruch Bearcats (4-9) .

The Brew Crew next traveled to Delaware Valley and defeated the lowly D.V. Aggies (1-9) .

Returning home the Brewers edged a quality Manhattanville (8-3) team 63-61.
This Manhattanville program set a school-record in wins last season with 23, won its first Skyline Conference championship ever, and played in the NCAA tournament.
So far this season the Valiants have invaded the ultra-competitive NJAC Conference three times...coming away with three victories over N.J. City, Rutgers Newark, & Ramapo. 

Next on tap, Vassar played in the annual Hudson Valley Shootout, and when all was said and done collected their 4th straight H.V. Shootout Championship.
In the first round, the Brewers discarded its cross-river foe New Paltz State (3-5) with little trouble . New Paltz's best win this season comes over a very sporadic SUNY Old- Westbury squad.
The championship game showcased the Brewers defeating the Mt St Mary Knights (7-5) , out of the Skyline Conference.
[size=09pt]Tyson Brazell scored 18 points on 8 of 10 shooting from the floor and was named MVP of the Hudson Valley Shootout, it was his second career MVP selection. He was named MVP of the 2007 ECAC Upstate Tournament after scoring 28 points and leading the Brewers to the championship over Oswego State, 66-65.[/size]

The Brewers closed out their first half of the season with wins over other two questionable squads. Vassar defeated CUNY Conference, N.Y.C Tech (4-8) and Independent
So. Vermont (1-9)

Although the players at Vassar are to be commended for the work they have put in to date, with further examination one could state a favorable schedule has certainly helped in that course.
The overall records of the teams the Brewers have played is a combined 13 games under .500 for the season (35-48) , which indicates some soft scheduling.

The Liberty League on a night in,night out basis will provide no scheduling relief.
We need not forget how regular season L.L. champion Hamilton, who lost only 3 games in conference, got tripped up by a hapless Skidmore squad last season. A team that finished a putrid 2-22 on the year.

So let us not be to fast in giving away a L.L. title to the kids from Poughkeepsie yet.  They certainly have the team talent and leadersip to win it all...but they must EARN IT.

The champion of the L.L. this season is going to have to lace up their boots, putting in nothing less than yeoman type work every time they take the floor.

In order to do that...You can never assume it will happen, You must make it happen!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 09, 2008, 10:13:33 AM
Nice win for Hobart ending a 5 game skid:

http://web.hws.edu/athletics/hobart/showrelease.asp?id=4331
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 10, 2008, 03:01:28 PM
Wow have I been out of it for a while.  Vassar?? Good??  I wasn't even aware that they had a basketball team.  So for that reason I still have Ham Tech and the St. Lawrence Larries as the top two teams.  BTW, not only is the Vassar thing a bit of a surprise but some of the teams they played I also have never heard of!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 10, 2008, 03:57:59 PM
Vassar Hamilton next wknd will be the test for Vassear until then lets just hold off on the three page letters that praise their team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 10, 2008, 06:31:29 PM
I was away for the past few days and I return to see that the Liberty League (that everyone seems to think is the weak sister league in upstate NY as compared to the SUNYAC and e-8) went 4-0 with solid wins by Hamilton & SLU and most surprising to me Hobart over Ithaca. 2 wins over b-port and a win over Oswego.  No answers to my post over on the e-8 board as to what gives.  Anybody see the games? :o
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 10, 2008, 07:01:26 PM
shooters - can you ever give vassar any credit? agreed, that post was a little long (and im a vassar guy. wasted five minutes of my life readin that) but cmon, this is essentially the same team that was one possession away from beating washington university (a final four team by the way) last season. ok, they haven't played that tough of a schedule this year, but manhattanville and emerson are both legitamite ncaa contenders. they also get springfield college at home the week before hamilton.

so all in all, yes, that novel about vassar was premature, they still do need to prove to me that they are a top three team in NY state. but before you hate they should also need to prove to you they arent.

basically, im sayin its gonna be a, exciting season in the LL
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 11, 2008, 03:59:16 PM
video from the bart-IC game:

http://web.hws.edu/athletics/hobart/showrelease.asp?id=4335
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 11, 2008, 06:07:21 PM
TGP- thanks for the link.   That was very interesting.  Hadn't seen Hobart at all this year.  Thought that Ithaca might be too tough for them even at home. Nice way to stop a skid.  Good win for the Statesmen and the LL. Saw Clarkson's struggles continue this past weekend in NYC.  Lehman game was theirs for the taking but the team couldn't seem to get a big basket when it needed it. Lehman finishes on a 12-2 run to win by 3.   NYU game was much closer than the final score indicated.  Huge moment in second half when a made Clarkson 3 by Lasita was wiped out by a call away from the play under the basket that I couldn't even begin to understand. NYU is not a tremendous team by any stretch of the imagination.  Barring a major injury I think U of R will handle them by 20.  NYU's bigs are pretty slow and methodical but will not be able to withstand U of R bigs. NYU can and did at the end of the Clarkson game get hot from the outside (even one the plodding bigs had good range). NYU finished on a 17-4 run over the last 4-5 minutes to win by 21.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 13, 2008, 06:08:43 PM
Any predictions on this weekends game in the LL??  Vassar finally gets to play a team that will play five guys at a time... If they want to be considered a contender for the LL they should probably get Hamilton at home, a team that has yet to win a game outside of Utica (won at Utica college). 

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 14, 2008, 02:38:04 PM
Contenental whupping put on the Statesmen by Hamilton.  Only bright spot for Hobart was their frosh putting up 21 pts in an otherwise ugly showing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hoops on January 14, 2008, 09:49:19 PM
Whos the early candidate for POY in the LL.- Brazell, Avitable,Simmons, Grazoli
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 15, 2008, 01:15:29 AM
It's tough to pick a POY before the season starts, but if you had a gun to my head, I'd say if Vassar does well (1st or a strong second) it's Avitabile's to win or lose.  He got strong consideration last year and I don't think they lost much of the cast at Vassar whereas other teams lost more to graduation.  That being said I'm putting my qualifiers on early, there may be some absolute stud transfer or freshman out there that could upset the applecart.  Saw Clarkson play a horrendous game against Elmira (probably their worst effort of the year).  If they don't play with more enthusiam and heart within league play they will be this years Skidmore. Hopefully they can right the ship and be competitive. At least this weekend they face Skidmore and Union at home rather than on the road.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 15, 2008, 12:06:22 PM
First things first, I wasn't "hating" on Vassar I just simply said lets hold off until they play someone, I agree with POY, and Avitable should win it. I really thought Hobart would put up a better fight with Hamilton, they got drilled. This should be a good week for the LL and Friday night's game between Vassar and Hamilton I think will decide the team to beat in the LL this year. I know its early but I think Vassar's light schedule compounded with the fact Hamilton has played some tough teams will equate to a Hamilton victory by 7 pts.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 15, 2008, 08:25:47 PM
I  can't possibly predict the POY until after watching some league games.  When St. Lawrence and Hamilton challenge themselves against quality non league opponents and the Vassars of the world play the teams they play, I pretty much disregard all non league stats. Hobart as well plays a nice non league slate.  With that said, I think there are as many 7-8 guys who could get into that category.  Let's play some games and go from there. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 15, 2008, 10:48:35 PM
Agreed with everything said...... there was a gun to head when I made the prediction you know....  Vassar /Hamilton game looms large early...  Vassar gets Hamilton at home though so I think it's closer than 7 and Vassar wins...by 2 in ot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 16, 2008, 06:40:39 PM
agreed, i think vassar gets this one at home. you also need to factor in experience. hamilton has a lot of young guys, while vassars whole team is juniors and seniors
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 17, 2008, 12:43:56 PM
I think it will be a good game........I like Hamilton's depth, they go about 8-9 deep and if you have seen them they play almost all freshmen and sophmores, if they continue to get this kind of talent they will be scary in a few years. Vassar does have a lot of experience and I'm sure confidence from their success so far this year so it should be a good match up. Hamilton by 7.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on January 18, 2008, 12:37:56 PM
I'll go V.C. by 7 pts. when all is said and done.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 18, 2008, 10:46:45 PM
Nice win for Vassar, a must if they want to have a shot, have to win home games.  Watched Union score 10 points in the first half tonight en route to a 51-41 loss.  Ugly, but Clarkson defended the heck out of Union and Union had no answers.  The ol' dutchman didn't handle ball pressure very well, and the Knights handled them fairly easily.  Larries big over the thoroughbreds, who obviously didn't get out of the gate (ha!). 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 19, 2008, 12:28:37 PM
big win for vc. by all accounts it was a great game, wish i coulda been there.

does anyone know where i can find regional rankings?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 19, 2008, 06:41:24 PM
another 20-something percent shooting day for hobart in a loss.  ugh.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 19, 2008, 07:11:30 PM
clarkson pretty comfy over the breds up in potsdam today.  second day where they got after it on D.  St. Lawrence easy over Union.  Maybe not so easy a trip up north this year??  didn't see much from either Union or skidmore.  Clarkson may have a shot to sneak into the 4 spot for LL post season tourny
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on January 20, 2008, 11:40:07 PM
Quote from: hoops on January 14, 2008, 09:49:19 PM
Whos the early candidate for POY in the LL.- Brazell, Avitable,Simmons, Grazoli

Why would you start talking about POY after the first weekend of league play?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: NYBB on January 21, 2008, 10:24:25 AM
How is Vassar so good this year?  They usually don't produce such quality teams...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 21, 2008, 04:49:06 PM
Must say that Clarkson looked tough on D.  They held Union to 1 for 20 in the first half and 10 points total in the half. Played good defense against Skidmore too.  By far the Knights best outings at home and probably equal to the effort at their only other victory of consequence @ Potsdam.  To win Clarkson must play defense and have everyone healthy. SLU on Tues will be stern test.  Believe Vassar Hamilton and SLU will be in the playoffs at end of the season barring any serious injuries but the 4 th spot should be an absolute dog fight.  Teams will have to win at home and sneak a few on the road.  Already Clarkson who I thought might be 8th has come through with 2 victories against teams they'll be in competition with for that 4th spot so this year willbe very interesting!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 21, 2008, 04:57:16 PM
Quote from: bucketsallday on January 19, 2008, 12:28:37 PM
big win for vc. by all accounts it was a great game, wish i coulda been there.

does anyone know where i can find regional rankings?

Here, but not until the second week of February, when the NCAA releases them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 22, 2008, 03:43:24 PM
Close but no cigar against Vassar.  Not looking good for Hobart (1-8 in last 9 games). ???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 22, 2008, 08:12:47 PM
TGP- have you seen Hobart play?  They are an enigma to me?!  The win over SJF was, I thought, as good a win as they've had in awhile, but they've been pretty bad since early in the season?  Any injuries, doubts of youth, etc.  Haven't seen them play yet so I can't really comment too much but they do puzzle me...

P.S. Anyone up there in the north country I would appreciate updates on SLU vs Clarkson - I can't seem to get the game on the net.... it sucks being virtually computer illiterate..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on January 22, 2008, 08:29:27 PM
St. Lawrence leads Clarkson 27-9 with 8:05 in the first Half.  SLU on a 22-2 run.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on January 22, 2008, 08:50:50 PM
Halftime SLU 36 Clarkson 24
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 23, 2008, 12:03:56 AM
Thanks Bear,   sounds like Clarkson woke up a little bit after that God awful start.  Wife still at work so she was able to get on for the second half so I listenned in on the telephone.  One of these days I'm going to actually learn how to work one of these contraptions properly.  Final I believe was something like 84-69??  Were you there?  It sounded like SLU was always able to keep the Knights just far enough away from a serious challenge..  at least it was more competitive than the Union or Skidmore games..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 23, 2008, 12:27:42 AM
Quote from: with age comes? on January 22, 2008, 08:12:47 PM
TGP- have you seen Hobart play?  They are an enigma to me?!  The win over SJF was, I thought, as good a win as they've had in awhile, but they've been pretty bad since early in the season?  Any injuries, doubts of youth, etc.  Haven't seen them play yet so I can't really comment too much but they do puzzle me...

P.S. Anyone up there in the north country I would appreciate updates on SLU vs Clarkson - I can't seem to get the game on the net.... it sucks being virtually computer illiterate..

Can't say as I have since I live in Los Angeles and haven't been back to Geneva since the late 90s.  I was encouraged by the early returns but the team has been in a free fall since mid-December.  I can only chalk it up to Coach Iz being new to the program and the requisite growing pains that go with bringing in a new system, etc.  Hobart has never really been a "basketball school", but I had hoped with the strong finish in 07 and the good start this year, things may change.  Unfortunately, it looks like another losing season in LL for the Hobart Hoopsters.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 23, 2008, 01:38:14 AM
Well TGP the season is young  (and there's always lacrosse!) ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Chief1101 on January 23, 2008, 08:17:59 AM
Hobart will not have another losing season in the liberty league.. you have to remember, currently they are starting 3 frosh..and about 5 or 6 frosh play significant minutes...grazioli is the best big man in the conference by far, but he needs more help in the front-court..

llewellyn, salzmann, and estep will be all-league selections in years to come..this team is up and coming and im willing to bet they make a run at the fourth spot in the conference tournament..if not, look out next year...


as for the other teams..clarkson has always been good defensively, but has never been able to score..
st.lawrence has and always will be a soft team...richard williams is the softest big man in division 3 basketball and I say this from experience...union is always a fundamentally sound team but they seem to be lacking that big game player this year...skidmore is no longer the laughing stock of the league and they seem to be playing D and they can shoot the 3 ball..RPI has a good big man in Simmons, but he is one dimensional because he does the same move everytime..spin over the shoulder and tries to throw his body into you..Hamilton is always well coached and their starting point guard Simpson is very good..he is a great floor leader and can put up points when he needs too..with Dave Alston leaving the school, he has had to step up and seems to be doing soo..Alston would have been one of the top players in the league this year..As for Vassar, they have had the same squad for a few years now, and Avitable is a quality player along with Brazell and Butterworth..but after this year, its back to square one because all the good players are graduatiing..I can say this now, Vassar will not win the Liberty League tournament..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 23, 2008, 11:12:46 AM
grazioli is the best big man in the conference by far? really? what about larry avitabile? first team all-conference last year, first team all-region last year, the four and best player on the best team in the league, and if that isnt enough take a look at his numbers - second in the conference in scoring at 17.3 (a whopping .3 behind grazioli), first in boards at 9.9 per, and averages 2.5 assists, 2 steal, and 2 blocks (all top five in conference) while shooting 65% from the floor (which leads the conference). check your facts next time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 23, 2008, 11:24:54 AM
and how can you say vassar will not win the LL tourney? especially when we are a whole three games into league play. their only loss this year is too an emerson team with only one loss. granted, they play in the gnac, which im pretty sure is the conference for the deaf and blind, but any team with one loss at this point in the season is doing something right. and if you had any doubts about their record, how is beating hamilton, hobart, and rpi on the road where they are always tough. vassar heads up north this weekend, which is always a tough trip for them (6 1/2 hours is a long way), but they have gona 3-1 the last two years on this trip, sweeping last year. if the last three games havent proved this squad yet, then a good weekend should.

will anyone ever give a vassar team credit, or will a record of 11-1, 3-0 never outweigh the fact it is "vassar".
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Chief1101 on January 23, 2008, 11:40:28 AM
Never said Avitable was not good..he is a great player, but he is not a big man..he is a 3 or 4 man..grazioli is a true 5 and there is not a big man in the league who has a better touch then him..yes we are 3 games into league play, i understand that, but im telling you they will not win the tourney..butterworth is a streaky shooter, they dont have a true pg, brazell is very talented but doesnt seem to have it all there all the time, and avitable is not a scorer..he is a garbage man, a very good one at that who gets buckets around the hoop..he is not a natural scorer..he has tremendously long arms and he is the most active player in the league..but watch, 2nd time around in league play, teams will beat vassar....hobart lost by 20 last year to them at vassar and destroyed them on their homecourt because they took avitable out of his game and butterworth is streaky..you get in butterworth defensively, he can not do anything..

ur right im not up on the stats, but i know basketball..avitable may well be the best all around player in the league, but he is not a scorer..he can not take a game over..he rebs and through rebs (offense/defense), he dominates..

grazioli is a pure shooter who does not miss from 15ft and in..but he does not have a great supporting cast..his 3/4 man are frosh and they are not there yet..give them a few years and hobart will be a top the league..vassar will stink next year...



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 23, 2008, 12:06:35 PM
ill give you that, avitabile is not a "true" big man in the sense grazioli is, but how can you say he cant take over a game when he put up 28 and 14 on grazioli and hobart on saturday? and last year they did not get blown out @ hobart. hobart got out to a big lead, but vassar came all the way back and cut the lead to one, but a couple of bone headed plays cost them. but that game had no bearing on the standings for VC, they were playing STL in the first round of the conference tourney regardless of  the outcome.

and i know basketball too chief. i agree with everything else you said - butterworth IS a streaky shooter, and brazell can be inconsistent, and playing richard williams is like playing a roll of charmin. but brazell does have the ability to take over a game - both offensively and defensively where he may be the best on the bal dfender in the league, and if butterworth is hot, he can carry a team. and vassar is extremely deep this year - they go 9 deep without much of a drop off, which is so important for any team come conference play because teams know each other so well.

i also think that point guard play in general is weak in the conference this year. there is no colby feane in the league year, and i feel like you are discrediting vassars pg's a little. i played with these guys, and holt is not the best shooter but can get in the lane pretty easily which is important when you have a guys that can finish inside and guys that can shoot, but has had health issues his first two years (a bum ankle, mono), and forcella is liek a second coach out there - he knows vassars 'stuff' as well as anyone, and can shoot the lights out - which allows him to get by when he's about four feet tall.

regardless, i think the winner of saturdays game between VC and STL has to be considered the early favorite to earn the auto bid from the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Chief1101 on January 23, 2008, 12:26:18 PM
agreed...pg is down this year, simpson on hamilton might be the best..he is a quality pg that can fill it up if he has too..

llewellyn on hobart will be an all conference player in a year or two..he can score, he is putting up better numbers than colby feane ever did..

brazell is the wild card for that team..he is the best offensive player on that team, but like i said sometimes he is not all there..if he goes, vassar goes..avitable is always there, always 100% and always reliable..if you add brazell into the equation, thats a formiddable team inside and out...


when i said he cant take over a game, i meant that he cant come down the court cross someover, hit a three or take it right to the rack on a consistent basis..i playeg against avitable as well, hes a great player..but past guys like josh harner, nick jones, the shooting guard from rpi a few years back, they can dominate games with a variety of moves..avitable dominates by rebounding and garbage man plays..hey you cant fault that, he still puts up buckets, but that was my point..


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 23, 2008, 12:41:18 PM
i hear you ... and if lleywynn  ( or however you spell it) is better that feane i look forward to seeing him play. and i think we agree on avitabile. a good comparison - michael beasley from kansas state. same kind of player.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hoops on January 23, 2008, 09:57:53 PM
Speaking of Grazoli and Avitable who have both had great careers does either one have a chnace of playing over seas next year?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 24, 2008, 07:42:08 PM
Hoops- both of them have a possibility of playing overseas.  It's all about contacts from what I've been able to see.  I think Hobart has a couple of guys playing overseas now so Grazoli may have a better chance at making contacts.  Avitabile, who definitely has the ability, may not have the connections. Obviously there are different degrees of "playing overseas"-  some play for room, board and "pocket money"- others play for what I would consider big money $100,000 plus.  Both of these players have the ability but probably not to be a "big time" earner, but perhaps an opportunity that most would "die for"- to play for pay.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Chief1101 on January 25, 2008, 08:24:40 AM
Hobart does have connections overseas...Grazioli will definitely get a shot "overseas" because he is the best pure shooter in the league and he is a solid 6'7 and he is getting stronger...Teams overseas look for big guys who can shoot and handle themselves down low..he already has the jump shot and his post moves are getting better each day...Guys like Davidek and Corbett played overseas, and Grazioli is a more complete player then both of them...


Davidek was more athletic, but no one can score better than Graz...You have to remember Graz sat out his first year due to injuries and sickness, but besides that, he has put up great numbers..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 25, 2008, 10:33:43 PM
Saw Vassar against Clarkson tonight.  Surprised by the lack of athletism and shooting from Vassar.  I am sure they may have had an off night, but I really don't see where they are better than Clarkson to be honest.  The Knights got to the rim when they wanted and Vassar had to press and double and did not look good in doing so.  I will reserve judgment on them and see how the do at St. Law. tomorrow, but it could be ugly in favor of the Saints.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebigcat on January 26, 2008, 05:15:51 AM
Vassar has never played well at Clarkson.  Clarkson seems to always get up for Vassar, and they always play tough defense on their home court.  The first day of the North Country is always the hardest for VC because of the 6.5 bus ride that the players have to take before their game.  Expect VC to come out hard with a great effort tomorrow, and estabilish themselves as legit contenders in LL.  Remember, Hamilton lost to Skidmore last year at Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 26, 2008, 10:53:13 AM
Get up for Vassar?? I have seen the last three Clarkson home games and their worst total performance was last night, and they lead the all time series over 2 to 1.  The drive is an issue but basketball teams arrive at venues so early nowm I am not buying that too much.  St. Law. and Clarkson deal with that every trip and have not used it as an excuse.... we'll see today
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 26, 2008, 11:44:52 AM
BTW, what is this Hobart in the pros crap.... Cheese Vigansky from Clarkson is playing pro ball in Europe, nothing against Cheese, but he averaged 8.5 ppg in the mighty liberty league so pro ball in Europe does not exactly remind me of the Chicago Bulls. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 26, 2008, 12:14:02 PM
airball - the bus trip is always tough because you have to sit on it, guys and girls teams, cramped without much leg space. add that to an early morning (they left at 730 am yesterday), and it will always be a tough game.

vassar @ clarkson has always been the one of the ugliest games of the year in the LL (do you remember two years ago when the final was 45-36), but vc has had a knack for bouncing back and playing well against the larries - two straight wins. i think last night was more indicative of the fact that clarkson has a legit contender this year, rather than being a knock on VC.

regardless, gonna be a great game this afternoon - VC by 2 in OT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 26, 2008, 03:00:31 PM
Saw last nights game @ Clarkson too.  I think that Vassar did come out stale in the opening stanza, but they never did seriously challenge Clarkson in the second half even when they did play with more intensity.  Clarkson continues to amaze me with their play of late.  I wasn't sure if they would win 3 league games for the whole season after their effort at Elmira, but here they stand at 3-1.  Vassar will have to play much improved to beat the Larries ( who have now established themselves as a legitimate contender in the league after a horrendous early season).  Unfortunately with the early losses by Hamilton and SLU I'm afraid only the tournament champion has a  shot at the NCAA baring perfection from here on in for the Brewers, Conts, or Larries with a tight loss in the championship game.  Even then chances may be remote.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DDirty22 on January 26, 2008, 04:44:59 PM
Vassar leads SLU 33-31 at half.  Pretty sloppy game and frankly I have not been too impressed by either team.  Check out the game at:

http://www.stlawu.edu/sports/webcast/mbasketball.html
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on January 26, 2008, 04:47:16 PM
In a tightly contested first half of play on the road, the Vassar Brewers lead the St Lawrence Saints 33-31.

St Lawrence jumped out early to a 7-2 lead, the Brewers eventually tied it up at 7, but it was the Saints who held the lead for a vast majority of the 1st half until back to back 3 pointers late in the stanza. The second of which tied Vassar's largest lead (2-0).

Interior Defense,and preventing dribble penetration (from the games I've had a chance to watch Vassar play) remains the Brewers greatest achilles-heel so far this season as opponents seem to get to the rim at will.

At the Half:
Vassar 33
St Lawrence 31



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 26, 2008, 05:46:11 PM
vassar loses 72-67. rough weekend for the brewers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on January 26, 2008, 06:08:37 PM
St Lawrence Saints 72
Vassar Brewers 67

For much of the 2nd Half this game remained contested.
Yet with just under 5:00 remaining, and St Lawrence leading 58-57, the Saints converted a 3 pointer...forced a VC turnover, which turned into an easy transition layup. Then following a  missed 3 point attempt for the Brewers, the Saints again were off and running converting on another easy layup in transition.

The Brewers who relied on long range shooting for a large portion of the game to remain involved, found themselves ice cold from behind the 3 pt. line when they needed it most.
The Brewers went scoreless from the 4:48 marker to a little over one minute remaining in play missing 3 three point attempts in the process.

St Lawrence opened up their biggest lead of the game 67-57 with just over a 1:20 left in regulation.

The Brewers never showed any signs of quitting, and after a layup from Brazell, a missed dunk from St Lawrence, a must 3 ptr from Butterworth, the score was 69-63 with :37 remaining.
VC then forced Saint Lawrence into a turnover, and converted it into a layup with only :27 left (69-65).

But it was the Saints who got some clutch FT shooting from Hoercher to close out the contest.

I have to say I was very impressed with the Saints interior man to man defense,
a defense that didn't put VC into the 1&1 BONUS until about 1:30 or so left in the game.

The Brewers Transition Defense was nothing less than inept getting beat time and time again for easy buckets in the second half. If not getting beat in transition, the VC defense was getting beat to the basket from dribble penetration as the Saints converted plenty of other easy lay-in opportunities.

Hat's off to to the SAINTS, a well EARNED VICTORY!

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 26, 2008, 06:14:17 PM
Clarkson by 5 over RPI.  Much better game today with more flow versus last night's game.  Simmons is a very good player and RPI, from what I saw today, is better than their record.  St. Lawrence holds serve in a tight one, good battle by Vassar.  Day two at home sometimes the home team sleeps a bit after the previous night, maybe why St. Lawrence stuggled a bit today.  I am sticking with my pre-season picks which had Hamilton and St. Law. at the top, only regret is having Clarkson so low, maybe a challenger for the three seed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 26, 2008, 09:50:35 PM
Great weekend for Hobart.  Keep up the good work Statesmen!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 27, 2008, 10:45:27 AM
Airball- agree with your assessment.  I too had Vassar, Hamilton & SLU at the top.  By far the biggest surprise is Clarkson.  I had them last (which if you saw them at Elmira you'd know why), but as I hoped they now have their whole team healthy and are playing rock solid d.  Guess the second biggest surprise is the stumbling out of the blocks by Union.  Montana is a pretty good coach and I'm sure they will start winning games soon, but they better not wait too long.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 27, 2008, 10:49:44 AM
One last thought- Simmons for RPI is the real deal.  He was absolutely excellent yesterday for the engineers. 28 pts 13-18 with 2-2 from the line and solid d too.  He is so controlled and patient on offense.  Never seems to rush a shot.  RPI will surprise if they get a little stronger play from 1-3 and I think will end up in the fight for a playoff spot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 28, 2008, 12:32:09 AM
with age

I don't think you got what you were looking for when you took in the Clarkson-Vassar game Fri. Night. I expected Vassar to handle them by double digits. Must have been that long drive up to our nasty North Country that did them in. I figured SLU would beat them on Sat. and believe the Larries will win the LL as well. I had Vassar as high as #5 in the region but after 2 losses this weekend they're dropping into the 2nd 10. Must have been a long ride back to Poughkeepsie for the Brewers with 2 L's on the record.
I saw SLU play at Plattsburgh St. when they were in the midst of 7 road games out of 8 to start the year. They lost to some decent teams but with most of last years team returning I didn't see a 2-6 start . Fortunately they seem to have righted the ship running off 8 straight  with 3 pretty good wins in there.

I agree that the NCAA's aren't looking good except for the automatic LL bid. But who knows. E8 league might only get 1 bid and Bport also hurt themselves with those losses to SLU and Hamilton earlier this month. Some tables need to be run and then a loss in the conference tournament finals may get 2 LL teams in. But I doubt it's going to happen. Would much rather see the NY teams get those at large bids than teams from out of the region.  The NY short list is UR, Plattsburgh, Brockport , Naz, Ithaca, SLU, and Hamilton. Fisher, Oswego, Vassar, Geneseo and Cortland only get in if they win their respective conf. tourney. I guess Stevens will count as a NY bid even though they're in N J.  Tuesday I'm going to where you were on Friday to take in the Potsdam-Plattsburgh game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Chief1101 on January 28, 2008, 09:37:28 AM
hobart will sneak into the 4th spot or higher in the conference tournament...watch out...


st lawrence is beatable..clarkson is solid, but pickering cant guard grazioli..and that other big lefty guy they have is garbage..



eric viganksy is not good..he has a solid 3 pt shot, but he is scared of the paint...i guess thats why he is in europe becuase most guys over there are soft..he runs his mouth a little too, which I like dont get me wrong, but he wasnt even top 5 forwards in the league lsat year..him and richard williams were neck and neck for the softest big man title in the liberty league..

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 28, 2008, 06:30:52 PM
The point about Cheese vigansky was not that he was a great player, rather than it apparently isn't all that difficult to find "pro" basketball across the globe..  That being said the Hobart players playing pro ball were solid D3 guys, but hardly worth talking about playing at the pro level.  Hell, I was a champion pro speed skater when I lived in Argentina, catch my drift... As for Hobart and the LL playoffs, maybe, but this is the same team that lost eight in a row or something like that, we'll see this weekend.  I don't think there are any guarentees in this league except for Hamilton and St. Lawrence in terms of the playoffs. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 28, 2008, 11:04:34 PM
I agree wih your assessments that SLU and Hamilton are the only locks on playoff spots.  Vassar I believe will also get in.  The fourth is up in the air.  Before the season started I thought it would be Union but stumbling out of the gate like they have it will take a complete turnaround and some luck. Went to watch SLU vs Union women's team and before the men got suited up I watched them interact or should I say watched them ignore each other (each in their own world with IPOD's in their ears). Team chemistry plays a part in these games and I didn't see any strong bonds there. Like to see them right the ship and play to their potential.  Hopefully Montana can get them going in the right direction before its too late.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Chief1101 on January 29, 2008, 08:40:13 AM
airball...


players such as Joe Corbett and Davidek Herron were very successful players overseas...Viganksy is horrendous compared to those two..i understand your point, but dont say that hobart players should not have been at the pro level...corbett and herron were both very sought after players..


i wouldnt even pick up viganksy in a regular pick up game because hes a pretty boy..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 29, 2008, 10:44:03 AM
Talking about playing overseas, its pretty easy to find a place. Do you guys remember Jud Winton from Vassar? He graduated '05, pretty good scorer. He played in Ireland for a couple years - granted, it was pretty much for housing, food, and a little bit of extra cash but it was still pro ball. I doubt anyone from the LL can go over there and get rich playing ball, but I bet its a great experience, and a damn good pick up line.

and chief, you hate SO hard on this message board. bitter much?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Chief1101 on January 29, 2008, 10:49:32 AM
Ha nope...Quite honestly, I think majority of the poeple on this board never played a college basketball game in their life...my opinion tho..


just some of the facts people throw out on this board are outrageous..but i agree with your assessment of overseas basketball...if you can play, you will find a team out there..

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 29, 2008, 11:42:33 AM
No one is hating on Hobart players.  Sought after in the U.S.??  Now that would be a story.  I was merely stating that playing "pro" ball isn't really all that special overseas... BTW, did I mention I was a champion iditaroder for Saudi Arabia??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 29, 2008, 12:22:49 PM
chief - im assuming you played for hobart. when did you graduate, i bet we played against each other for a few years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 29, 2008, 01:40:03 PM
Quote from: bucketsallday on January 29, 2008, 12:22:49 PM
chief - im assuming you played for hobart. when did you graduate, i bet we played against each other for a few years.

Buckets, this post over on the E8 board should answer your question.

"bombersquadron
Second-stringer
Karma: -1
Posts: 50

Reply #4934 on: Today at 01:30:27 pm »   
Hey Chief, I had to do some research and make sure you weren't UCGrad in disguise, since you have such a hatred for Ithaca and Stevens.  But the 'Chief' is actually Kevin "Bobble Head" Riley, a former Hobart player, whose career numbers were 4.2 ppg and 3.5 rpg in four years at Hobart. So "Bobble Head"... I don't think you should come on here and call out Bostic, Ithaca College, or any coaches with your career 43 games played and 181 points. In his freshman and sophomore years the "soft and overrated" Bostic has tripled your CAREER numbers. I don't know why your calling out coaches either, find something better to do with your free time like coach a 4th grade girls CYO team. "

Hope it helps.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 29, 2008, 02:35:23 PM
Apparently, Chief has corrected the previous E8 board post, and I figured out how to actually quote across boards.

Here's his reply.

Quote from: Chief1101 on January 29, 2008, 02:24:39 PM
haha i appreciate that bombersquadron...


kevin "bobble head" riley...thats a good one, been hearing it my whole life...

ill take the heat for the hobart comments, but not the stevens comments..this name is used by different people...but i appreciate the research, you apparently take this sight seriously..


and i didnt attend hobart for 4 years buddy..thanks tho..also played 1 season at hobart...i only was at hobart for 3 years...but ur right, i dont have bostic numbers..



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 29, 2008, 04:20:59 PM
congrats to hobart Senior John Grazioli (St. Anthony's/Melville, N.Y.) tabbed the Co-Forward of the Week, first-year Rob Estep (West York/York, Pa.) Guard of the Week Award, and first-year guard Tim Llewellyn (West York/York, Pa.) named the Rookie of the Week.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 29, 2008, 08:15:47 PM
TGP- will give you a report after this weekend as I plan on watching Hobart for the first time this season.  And just think I'll put my $.02 about playing overseas.  So you think its a piece of cake to play pro ball in Europe.  Consider Sean Murphy RIT grad, numerous league recognitions, solid scorer, tough kid, who won the 3 point contest in an open European try out but did not land a contract.  Oh and by the way made the ABA Buffalo Silverbacks team that I would guess could probably crush most of the (not all) European pro teams. The Silverbacks have plenty of players who caught a "cup of coffee" in the NBA, or got try outs etc. And while I'm on my soap box "Cheese" had about a 3.7 GPA at a relatively tough school, has an excellent 3 point shot that seems to fit in a Eurpoean game, and was at one point last year ranked nationally in FT % I believe, though that is from memory and I'm not inclined to put hours of research to verify it. The point is that you need the contacts and you have to be lucky.  It's an experience that's probably worth the effort for most people who have played and loved the game. And man am I longwinded or what??? ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 29, 2008, 10:20:42 PM
noone said it was a cake walk. anyone that played for a team in the LL or whatever league RIT is in is obviously a pretty good basketball player, especially if they started, made all-league, etc. jud winton averaged somethin like 14 or 15 a game for his career at vassar, and even tho he played most of his career when vc was irrelevant in the league, putting up those numbers means he could play.

do you know the circumstances of murphy's tryouts abroad? was he trying out for a higher league team? also, ABA isnt a stretch for people at this level. dana martin from skidmore played for the vermont team for a while, and he might still be there.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on January 29, 2008, 10:29:14 PM
another thing - vassar barely bears hartwick tonight 58-55 after being down big in the first half. avitabile had 4pts and 3rebs, but brazell played well (18 and 6) and butterworth knocked down four threes and hopefully is getting back on track.

not sure what to make of this, anyone know how good hartwick is this year? i know that theyve been better the last few years. regardless, good teams win when theyre supposed too even when they have an off game.......
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bombersquadron on January 29, 2008, 10:36:30 PM
Quote from: bucketsallday on January 29, 2008, 10:29:14 PM
another thing - vassar barely bears hartwick tonight 58-55 after being down big in the first half. avitabile had 4pts and 3rebs, but brazell played well (18 and 6) and butterworth knocked down four threes and hopefully is getting back on track.

not sure what to make of this, anyone know how good hartwick is this year? i know that theyve been better the last few years. regardless, good teams win when theyre supposed too even when they have an off game.......

Hartwick has one kid that can play, a couple decent players around him, one solid big kid. I was surprised by the final score, that avitabile did have better #s and that they were down that much. Not sure what to make of this Hartwick inflated its record by playing a joke of a non-conference sch. first semester so this surprises me.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 30, 2008, 11:08:55 AM
Congrats to Hamilton, big win over Williams last night.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 30, 2008, 12:21:50 PM
Quote from: with age comes? on January 29, 2008, 08:15:47 PM
TGP- will give you a report after this weekend as I plan on watching Hobart for the first time this season. 

Thx!  +k.  Looks like you picked a good weekend to catch some hoops in Geneva.

Although Clarkson is struggling, they are still tied for 2nd in the current LL standings and SLU is 1st.  Would be great for the Statesmen if they can keep this current win streak going, get to .500 overall, etc.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 30, 2008, 03:54:32 PM
Not so sure that Clarkson is struggling right now having won four of five.  Earlier on they were, but not right now.  However, the road can be an unpleasant place for the upstate teams, it is tough with all of those long bus rides to get ready for the first day games.... oops, I heard this already.  Seriously, if the Knights get one on the road then we can all start believing, and I think they can but obviously have to keep the scores down.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 30, 2008, 04:56:29 PM
Quote from: airball55 on January 30, 2008, 03:54:32 PM
Not so sure that Clarkson is struggling right now having won four of five.  Earlier on they were, but not right now.  However, the road can be an unpleasant place for the upstate teams, it is tough with all of those long bus rides to get ready for the first day games.... oops, I heard this already.  Seriously, if the Knights get one on the road then we can all start believing, and I think they can but obviously have to keep the scores down.

Didn't realize Clarkson was 4-1 in their last 5, just that they were 6-10 overall per the league standings.  Hobart is in a similar boat of only winning 2 of their last 3, so this is a pretty critical game for both teams. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on January 30, 2008, 05:59:49 PM
Clarkson has been playing pretty well as of late.  They finally have a completely healthy team. Keith Murray was out with an injury until beginning of January and has been playing very well for the Knights.  Also the team had 3 or 4 others guys who are contributing out for multiple games during the season with injuries.  Whole team has been healthy since the beginning of the league schedule and surprising the heck out of me.  Agree with Airball, until Clarkson sneaks a win on the road, I still need more convincing.   Hamilton on the other hand with victory over Williams has got me totally convinced.  SLU vs Hamilton game on Fri, to quote a local car dealer, is HUGE!!!!!!! From the looks of things it could either cement SLU as the heavy favorite or throw the race back up for grabs among the elite teams. Should be a fun weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bart1117 on January 31, 2008, 09:42:15 AM
Quote from: bombersquadron on January 30, 2008, 11:29:34 PM
Quote from: Bart1117 on January 30, 2008, 09:33:32 AM
Bombersquad...

So bomber you seem to be a liked dude on this site and I am sure its well deserved, and the "bobble head" comment got you a plus in my book, but if you want to talk about something or if you want to ask me a question, be a man and ask me...dont be a tool and try to start a funny thread over the internet...
One thing I wasnt was soft, so if I feel someone is soft in the LL, I will say it...Stats mean nothing to me when it comes to whether a player is scared of the paint or not...So relax with the comments although extremely funny..Loook forward to some Ithaca comments because I am sure you think they are going to win the National Championship..


I don't think sticking up for my boy Bostic makes me a tool by any means. I wasn't trying to start a funny thread either. I was just stating the facts how i saw them. Sorry you had an injury plagued career, but Bostic is not soft, just because he has a great 15-17 footer and isn't asked to be a back to the basket player doesn't mean hes soft. Bostic cleans up everything for Ithaca inside, and you or whoever called him soft was misinformed. I'm sure there isn't a coach in the E8, LL or sunyac who would turn down Bostic or think he is too soft.

And why do you think i feel Ithaca is going to win the National Championship. I think they are the most talented team since they went to the NCAA's in '02 maybe better. I have never once said or predicted anything about a National Championship, i do think if IThaca get hot going into the E8 tourney they can get on a roll and make some noise in the tournament. But like most teams in the E8, it really depends on what team takes the floor that night.

Anyways hopefully there are no ill feelings, and you have control of your account now and can give us some input as we reach the playoffs.



Straighten this out for Liberty League posters as well...The rest of the quote is on the E8 board...Hobart will be 4th in conference..CHIEF!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 01, 2008, 07:49:39 PM
Some important games around the state tonight,in all 3 leagues. 

SUNYAC

Brockport @ Fredonia         Golden Eagles 79-67

Plattsburgh @ Oneonta      Cards must stay focused win 84-75

Potsdam @ New Paltz         Battle for a playoff spot.  Bears 81-77

Geneso@ Buff. St.               Battle for 3rd in the West.  Geneseo 74-70


Empire 8

St John Fisher @ Elmira       SJF wins 1st road game 74-61

Nazareth @ Stevens            Revenge time & 1st place too Naz 78-76

Hartwick @ Utica                  Must win for Utica  64-55


Liberty League

St. Lawrence @ Hamilton     Both teams on a roll but Hamilton at home 69-67




Huge game in Rochester with Washington U. in town. Winner gets leg up in conference and National rankungs. UR wins this battle 76-70
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on February 02, 2008, 12:15:20 AM
Brewers escape gutsy Dutchmen

Just returned from Brew House and watching Vassar survive the Dutchmen, in a game that could only be described as both sloppy and ugly. Both teams turned the ball over 20+ times (Vassar 22, Union 27) as both team failed to "value the basketball".

It took nothing less than an amazing Brewer run late in the second half of play to survive a gutsy road performance from Union.

It was Vassar however who once again this season decided to attempt and dial up long distance from behind the 3 point arc as the main thrust of their offense, to no avail. Settling time and time again for numerous 3 balls throughout a majority of the contest, the Brewers shot an anemic 2-21 (9.5%) from downtown for the game. It was because of that horrific shooting that the Dutchmen's upset possibility was kept alive almost the entire game.

In my opinion, because the Brewers returned to their truest form of old late in the game by using some blistering ball pressure defense while jumping the passing lanes in the final 4 minutes of the game to turnover Union (erasing a double digit deficit) they were able to turn the momentum of the game back in their favor.
The comeback could also be attributed to the Brewers foregoing the 3 ball late in the contest and wisely turning to their floor leaders Lawrence Avitable (18pts, 7 Off. rebounds, 4-5ft) and Tyson Brazell (22pts, 8-9ft).

Relying heavily on the 1-2 punch from seniors Avitable and Brazell (who continually attacked the rim) in the second half and a monster effort off the bench from Jon Swartz, who came up with 3 critical steals (3-4 fg, 3-3ft, & 5 steals), the Brewers locked down the Dutchmen when they needed to most. After re-securing the lead late, Vassar kept Union at bay with nothing less than spectacular free throw shooting going 16-18 (88.9%) in the second stanza.

Union received a solid effort from junior forward Drew Desmarais (8-14 fg) who certainly came to play and deserves much LL respect.
Also for a majority of the game I was impressed with freshmen point guard Drew Goldstein (5-9 fg) who has a very nice handle and solid court vision in dolling out 5 assists. Unfortunately his youth may have had him feeling some of the late game L.L. pressure as he totaled 10 turnovers in the contest, 3 during the decisive final minutes of play which lead to Vassar scores.

Although this was a very important win for the Brewers, they must vastly improve, as I believe this type of team effort will not cut the mustard versus any of the other L.L. members.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on February 02, 2008, 10:09:19 AM
No surprises last night.  I really believe you will start to see separation, Hamilton and St. Law. for the one and two spots, then Clarkson, Hobart and Vassar for the last two spots.  Could have a below .500 team for the last spot.  For those last three teams you must win at home, does not look like any of them are strong enough to win on the road.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 02, 2008, 11:16:09 AM
Congrats to Hobart's Graz for netting his 1,000th career pts last night!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 02, 2008, 01:31:13 PM
vassar escaped a disastrous loss to union, thanks is large part to tough d down the stretch, forcing steals and getting easy buckets. brewers are in a bit of a funk right now, and pretty beatup right now (even coach dutton has the flu). but like i said before, a win is a win, and good teams win the ones they are supposed even when they dont play well.

wish i could have seen the hamilton stl game. any posters there last night?

and congrats to grazioli and the 1000, as well as an early congrats to brazell from vassar (two points away).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 02, 2008, 02:22:48 PM
Hamilton SLU game was a bit of a mess for the first half but then Hamilton really clamped down in the second half on defense, scary part is their leading scorer Wood didn't play much due to foul trouble. This Hamilton team is the real deal and I think by the time they play in the tournament they will be a force to be reckoned with. They don't really have any superstars, just good athletic players, Simpson is one of the best if not the best guard in the LL, I didn't say best scorers just a really good floor leader. Todays game against Clarkson could get interesting- Clarkson always comes to play against Hamilton. Posters have to agree if Hamilton beats SLU, Williams and Clarkson all in the same week Hamilton has matured into the LL team to beat. Vassar is just what most of us thought going in, a team that played a weak schedule and had an over-inflated record. Yes they beat Hamilton but that won't happen again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 02, 2008, 06:07:45 PM
Well you can ignore my previous message because Hamilton lost to Clarkson today. Shocker but not a total surprise, something about Clarkson v. Hamilton that is just plain weird.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on February 02, 2008, 08:47:26 PM
First I would like to tip my hat to both Brazell (Vassar) and Grazioli (Hobart) for joining the 1000 pt club this week.
Congrats men...great accomplishment!


Although the OlBallCoach couldn't make it to Po-town to watch the Brewers today, the box score clearly indicates a more typical Vassar like approach to taking care of business. The Brewers wisely relied on their super seniors Avitabile and Brazell to lead the way on the offensive end....and they responded in kind, taking 28 of the teams 53 attempts, while converting 12 of Vassar's 23 made FG's.

Jon Schwartz, who came off the bench to spark the Brewers in the second half on defense versus Union last evening, today got a much earned spot in the starting lineup, and with it came up large for Coach Dutton, going 3-4 from the floor, 5-6 from the charity stripe, while also tallying a game high 3 thefts (making his weekend totals 6-8 FG's,8-9 FT's including 8 steals during the LL homestand).

Vassar who had been firing 3's like they were going out of style, took a much more managable 15 three point attempts converting 7 versus the Thoroughbreds.
Senior Dan Forcella capitalized on his 13 minutes of play by going 3-5 from long distance.

VC once again made their opponents pay for fouling them by shooting lights-out from the FT line going 21-24 for an eye popping 87.5%, just one day after netting 18-22 (81.8%) vs. the Dutchmen.

As long as this Brewer team continues to make defense priority #1, they will be difficult to discard at any LL location.

Although the Brewers did what they needed to do to stay in the LL Title hunt we will grant to those who also closely follow this league that this was versus the 2 teams (Union, Skidmore) who currently reside at the bottom of the LL standings.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on February 03, 2008, 03:04:31 AM
TGP- you'd be proud of your team.  Grazioli is very good.  He choses his spots to leak out and in doing so scores many baskets in transition as he easily beats opposing big men down the floor.  That being said within a set offense he has real skills around the basket and uses his 6'7" frame well.  Have seen all the liberty league teams in person except for SLU and by george I'm curing that on Tues barring a Northcountry blizzard and Grazioli and Simmons at RPI are the best big men that I've seen in the league. Both have the potential to be POY if their teams make it into the playoffs.  Rest of the players at 'Bart that impressed me:  Estep- solid business like, excellent rebounder for his size. Not flashy but every coaches dream to have on your team with effort and a good sense of the game. Llewellyn has a lightenning quick explosive first step (as good as I've seen in the league) BUT only to the right.  As he matures and hopefuly works on his game (and his move to the left) he will be an excellent guard in this league.  Was absolutely lights out on free throws to preserve the win vs Clarkson down the stretch.  His size makes him a little vunlerable on zone trap presses if he gets the ball in the corner. I'd say he's about 5'10".  By far the most pleasant surprise for Hobart was McHugh.  He was perfect from the floor 3 for 3 from downtown and 4-4 from the charity stripe to go along with about 5 assists in the win over Clarkson.  Might have to agree with Bart1117 that the Statesmen could sneak into the playoffs as the 4 seed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 03, 2008, 03:39:29 AM
great for vassar to get out of this weekend 2-0. two starters were out for both games with ankle injuries, and avitabile (as well as coach dutton) were dealing with the flu. as olballcoach said, coming out weekend for jon swartz - if they can get consistent play out of him down the stretch like he played this weekend it would be a huge boost. also great to see joe davis and dan forcella get on track, two other key role players. halfway thru league play, its starting to look like the four playoff teams will be clarkson, stl, hamilton, and vassar.  with the parody within those four teams, winning the reg season and hosting the LL tourney will be huge.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on February 03, 2008, 08:17:47 AM
I still would not count out Hobart.  With the majority of their games yet to played at home, they could make a run at Vassar or Clarkson.  Both of those teams are playing well, but neither a sure bet.  All they need is some help, root hard for St. Lawrence and Hamiltont to win out and take care of their head to head with both Vassar (at home) and Clarkson who they handled quite easily.  How about the Golden Knights??  We should check the roster, is this the same team that lost to Caz and Alfred etc..?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on February 03, 2008, 11:57:52 PM
Want to set the record straight.  Clarkson did not lose to Alfred, they did however lose to Caz the college (not the poster over on the e-8 board) who did provide Alfred with their sole victory of the season.  In defense of the Knights they have had injuries which kept out 4 contributing players for multiple games in the non-league season schedule.  However they do continually amaze me.  Against Hobart they sleepwalk for the first 34 minutes of the game (down 20 at one point) put on a press & hit some 3's that brings them back to 6 down with about 1:40 left.  Llewelyn solid at charity stripe to seal win for Hobart.  Against Hamilton, Clarkson played with much greater intensity.  Hamilton seemed a little spent after emotional victory over SLU the night before, especially in the first half.  The second half Knights just hung tough in spite of 36 to 16 advantage in attempts from foul line for Hamilton.  Guess the Knights are doing it with smoke and mirrors??? Just a totally unexpected win.... Agree with Airball that it is way to soon to name playoff teams and everyone better add RPI to the list too.  They are better than their record and I believe will contend especially if they get improved guard play.  Their bigs are really good (especially Simmons).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on February 04, 2008, 10:05:25 AM
AGe, my mistake on Alfred, I meant Hilbert or Lehman or whoever, those teams are pretty much all the same.  I beleive there is way too much of this team came to play or that team didn't stuff on here.  Sometimes, some teams match up better with others and get unexpected results.  That said, the Liberty League isn't nearly as athletic as the Sunyac, hence Clarkson matching up better with inner conference teams.  Take nothing away from the Knights, but their recipe for success is keeping the scores down, and against the Vassars, RPI's, and Unions of the world, they can shut them down and have.  I am sure Hamilton played hard, they just got beat, same as any other game.  That was a big win for them, 502 is more than a one game difference then 4-3 when tie breakers are involved and Hamilton will finish in the top two. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 04, 2008, 12:25:23 PM
Quote from: with age comes? on February 03, 2008, 03:04:31 AM
TGP- you'd be proud of your team.  Grazioli is very good.  He choses his spots to leak out and in doing so scores many baskets in transition as he easily beats opposing big men down the floor.  That being said within a set offense he has real skills around the basket and uses his 6'7" frame well.  Have seen all the liberty league teams in person except for SLU and by george I'm curing that on Tues barring a Northcountry blizzard and Grazioli and Simmons at RPI are the best big men that I've seen in the league. Both have the potential to be POY if their teams make it into the playoffs.  Rest of the players at 'Bart that impressed me:  Estep- solid business like, excellent rebounder for his size. Not flashy but every coaches dream to have on your team with effort and a good sense of the game. Llewellyn has a lightenning quick explosive first step (as good as I've seen in the league) BUT only to the right.  As he matures and hopefuly works on his game (and his move to the left) he will be an excellent guard in this league.  Was absolutely lights out on free throws to preserve the win vs Clarkson down the stretch.  His size makes him a little vunlerable on zone trap presses if he gets the ball in the corner. I'd say he's about 5'10".  By far the most pleasant surprise for Hobart was McHugh.  He was perfect from the floor 3 for 3 from downtown and 4-4 from the charity stripe to go along with about 5 assists in the win over Clarkson.  Might have to agree with Bart1117 that the Statesmen could sneak into the playoffs as the 4 seed.

Thx for the report.  k+

I am bummed Hobart missed a chance to upset SLU this weekend in Geneva.  Sounded like a great game. 

http://web.hws.edu/athletics/hobart/showrelease.asp?id=4392
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on February 05, 2008, 10:19:38 PM
Phew, what a finish at Clarkson tonight, where the Larries pull it out by one.  Wopperer hits a tough 12 footer with 3 seconds left to win it.  Real tough make there.  Clarkson probably deserved a better fate in the last sequence.  Three time St. Law. had shot and Clarkson was fouled on rebounds but the stripes decided to swallow the whistle.  Then Smith gets rebound and swarmed and a jump ball call.  Probably as poorly an officiated sequence as I have seen in a while.  Amazing where they find these guys.  Still, fun game to watch and gutty win for St. Lawrence who now has the inside track on hosting.  I think when you fill up for $40 or more for gas, you get a whistle now.  Offer only valid at Mobil stations.  These same guys called some iffy ones on Sharlow in the first half so I guess if you are bad, be bad all game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on February 06, 2008, 11:47:31 AM
Airball you said it all.  And you are dead spot on.   Great game to watch. SLU has the inside track now as I think they will beat Hamilton at home.  Still have to contend with road games at Vassar & RPI but they definitely have the edge.   Don't know why Clarkson gets such lack of respect from the refs.  I don't recall ever having them shot the same number of foul shots in a game as the opposition.  In the last 2 games the opponents have over double the attempts (56 to 26 if memory serves me). Yesterday SLU shot 20 to Clarkson's 10 and that was a home game.  But its water over the dam now, hopefully Clarkson stiffens adn takes care of business this weekend because the war is not over yet!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bart1117 on February 08, 2008, 10:52:07 AM
Sweep this weekend for hobart...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on February 09, 2008, 01:13:53 AM
Leaders falter SLU, Vassar and Hamilton all lose.  Huge games tomorrow for Bart & RPI.  Winner takes critical step towards playoffs.   Likewise either Hamilton or Vassar will lose 2 this weekend.  Another big game at Hamilton.  Union and Skidmore look to be spoilers and no doubt will spoil for someone before the end of the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on February 09, 2008, 09:39:24 AM
A box score view.....

V.C. played 20 more 3 Balls-For Life (scratch-offs), cashing a mere 6 (30%) ...... in their 1 point loss (57-56) vs. Hobart.

The Bart (49) got 6 less total attempts from the field vs. the Brewers (55), while converting only 1 less of those FG trys (22 vs 23) for the ball game.





Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bart1117 on February 09, 2008, 07:01:33 PM
I called a SWEEP for Hobart..



Didn't I?


they will get 3rd spot now watch..



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on February 09, 2008, 11:56:09 PM
Great call this weekend from Bart1117.....can't hit the bottom of the net any purer than that!

Quote from: Bart1117 on February 08, 2008, 10:52:07 AM
Sweep this weekend for hobart...



V.C. scratched18 more 3 Balls-For Life attempts vs. Hamilton, and in doing so only found 3 winners in the bunch for a lack luster 16.7%.

It ended a weekend of disastrous long range bombing for the Brew Crew that saw them go 9 for 38 (23.6%) from behind the arc.

X out the 3 ball attempts and the Brewers shot a blistering 33-64 (51.5%) from 2 pt range for the weekend.

While I also must also add to this by stating that V.C. went 27-34 from the foul line over the weekend for a red-hot 79.4%.

Can anyone say Bill Murrey (V.C.) in Ground Hogs Day (Liberty League action) ?   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 11, 2008, 03:27:24 PM
Quote from: OlBallCoach on February 09, 2008, 11:56:09 PM
Great call this weekend from Bart1117.....can't hit the bottom of the net any purer than that!

Quote from: Bart1117 on February 08, 2008, 10:52:07 AM
Sweep this weekend for hobart...


hear hear.  nice to see hobart net a weekend sweeper!

and what's this talk about "scratching balls for life?" 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bart1117 on February 14, 2008, 03:47:47 PM
Thoughts on the weekend?...

 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 14, 2008, 04:13:57 PM
what more can you say but bart is playing pretty good ball right now.  finally evened up the record at 10-10 and winning 5 out of 6 (with the one loss by only 2 pts) is great.

huge weekend coming up with road trip to canton and clarkson. 

better pack some snow shovels.

brrrr

oh yeah - kudos to hobart frosh estep for being award the LL co-guard of the week:

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcampus.hws.edu%2Fsportspics%2Faction%2Festep_robert_2.jpg&hash=fcbf8484ac19af7ab41a0ac8af40ecc029b85a9c)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on February 14, 2008, 09:17:06 PM
Huge weekend..  If any team wins 2 in North (other than SLU who is in already) we'll have a second team in (in my opinion).  So we leave it to Hobart, Hamilton & Clarkson to see who wants it.  Conversely if any teams loses 2 in the North (other than SLU - see above) chances will be greatly dampenned but not totally shot.  RPI on the other hand can not afford a 2 loss weekend or we're in a 4 horse race for 3 spots.  Barring a disatrous weekend for SLU I think the gold will be theirs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 15, 2008, 10:36:51 AM
Yes big weekend all around, especially for Hamilton who might be playing without their point guard this weekend. If Hamilton can take back a victory at Clarkson things look pretty good for the Conts in the post season. It should be a dog fight!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on February 15, 2008, 11:12:23 AM
Quote from: Bart1117 on February 14, 2008, 03:47:47 PM
Thoughts on the weekend?...

 

This is a monster weekend in the LL no doubt about that...., one that could very well decide the fates of the 5 teams packed in the middle of league standings from making LL post season play or sitting home and watching it!

Here are my calls for Friday evening affairs........

Hobart @ St. Lawrence - Saints will find the home confines of Burkman Gymnasium much more to their liking in defeating Hobart for the second time this season.
Selection: St. Lawrence

Hamilton @ Clarkson - Knights in-league defense has been nothing less than super so far (giving up only 59.5 per game), yet I'll give the slightest of edges to the Continentals offense to return the favor to Clarkson who defeated them by 10 at M.B.S. Field House.
Selection: Hamilton

RPI @ Union - Union continues to play better as the season has progressed.
But are they playing well enough to up-end RPI, at Viniar Athlertic Center for their 4th consecutive LL win? Slight edge goes to the road team in this one.
Selection: RPI

Vassar @ Skidmore: Albeit on the road, V.C. gets what any doctor would prescribe as a best chance remedy (Skidmore 1-9LL) to cure the back-to-back road losses at Bart and Ham.
Selection: Vassar



"One False Assumption And Logic Will Do The Rest"




 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 15, 2008, 03:18:40 PM
I'll agree that Hobart has a tough task ahead of themselves in trying to beat the Larries on their home court.  It's not impossible, but Hobart going to need their best effort to get it done.

The bright side of a loss is the opportunity to come up with a split on the weekend (and a chance to move into 3rd place in the League):

http://www.libertyleaguesports.org/standings/mbasketball
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on February 15, 2008, 10:18:19 PM
LL Final Scores for Friday Evening Contests:

St Lawrence 69 Hobart 58

Hamilton 59 Clarkson 42

Union 67 RPI 61

Vassar 74 Skidmore 58
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DeckTop on February 15, 2008, 10:21:08 PM
I'm hearing rumors of an illegible player being used by RPI. Anyone else hear anything?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 16, 2008, 04:49:22 AM
The Saints outrebounded Hobart 51-29 led by Josh Sharlow's game-high 11.

cant win if you don't rebound....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on February 16, 2008, 06:04:24 PM
Saturday Afternoon LL Scores:

St Lawrence 72 Hamilton 59

RPI 74  Skidmore 69

Vassar 56  Union 44

Hobart v Clarkson 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on February 16, 2008, 06:20:26 PM
Saturday LL Final Score

Clarkson 75 Hobart 72
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 16, 2008, 11:31:17 PM
Quote from: OlBallCoach on February 16, 2008, 06:20:26 PM
Saturday LL Final Score

Clarkson 75 Hobart 72

DOH!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2008, 12:12:52 PM
Quote from: DeckTop on February 15, 2008, 10:21:08 PM
I'm hearing rumors of an illegible player being used by RPI. Anyone else hear anything?

This guy's name is the most illegible one I can see: Kris Kowalczyk.

If you mean ineligible, however, no idea.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on February 18, 2008, 06:44:14 PM
What a weekend.    Hamilton comes into Potsdam and comes away with victory aided by the fact that Hamilton shoots 48 free throws (not a misprint) on Clarkson's home floor. Clarkson outscored by 22 points from the foul line on their home court in a 59-42 loss. I'm not one to comment on the refs after the fact (and Clarkson did play horrendously) but this crew shouldn't be doing HS JV games let alone college games, but what I say doesn't matter.  I'm sure some other teams will have the "pleasure" soon enough.  So the Knights have to face the hot Hobart Statesman the next day without their leading scorer and rebounder (Elson Pickering) who lay writhing on the floor in the Hamilton game for about 20 seconds in pain before this crew noticed him (how you can miss a 6"7" 235 pound man twitching like a fish out of water for 20 seconds is beyond me-a comment on their eyesight I guess). And as Bart and TGP know Clarkson smoke & mirrors and little bit of Houdini engineers a 75-72 win.  And this just in- Grazioli gets my useless vote for POY.  He was magnificient 12-20 from the floor 8 for 9 from the line numerous rebounds and played many minutes with 4 fouls (Izzi did a lot of offense/defense subbing quite well).  If he wants, he should definitely play pro ball overseas.  The man has skills.  No easy fast break points in this game just nifty back to the basket moves and a soft touch. Statesmen still have viable chance to get into the playoffs but most likely will have to run the table, which means must beat Hamilton tomorrow at home and take care of business against Union and Skidmore at home on the weekend.  RPI has truly difficult task as they too probably will have to sweep remaining 3 games @ Vassar on Tuesday and Clarkson & Saint Lawrence this weekend.  Vassar probably just needs to win 1 of three home games against RPI, Clarkson or SLU to get in.  Clarkson has to win one on the road @RPI or Vassar to have a legitimate shot.  Don't know status  of Pickering but I don't know that the Knights have enough "smoke and mirrors" to accomplish that.  6 teams with legit shots at the playoffs in the final week of the season is pretty awesome. What would be really interesting would be three teams tied for the 4th spot at 7-7 which I think is a possiblity.  I haven't a clue what the tie break would be? That may be my longest post ever so I'll shut up now!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FWS on February 19, 2008, 09:19:30 AM
DeckTop- Re: your 2/15 post.
Apparently, the RPI team was informed of this situation last week.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 19, 2008, 10:03:31 AM
Quote from: with age comes? on February 18, 2008, 06:44:14 PM
What a weekend.    Hamilton comes into Potsdam and comes away with victory aided by the fact that Hamilton shoots 48 free throws (not a misprint) on Clarkson's home floor. Clarkson outscored by 22 points from the foul line on their home court in a 59-42 loss. I'm not one to comment on the refs after the fact (and Clarkson did play horrendously) but this crew shouldn't be doing HS JV games let alone college games, but what I say doesn't matter.  I'm sure some other teams will have the "pleasure" soon enough.  So the Knights have to face the hot Hobart Statesman the next day without their leading scorer and rebounder (Elson Pickering) who lay writhing on the floor in the Hamilton game for about 20 seconds in pain before this crew noticed him (how you can miss a 6"7" 235 pound man twitching like a fish out of water for 20 seconds is beyond me-a comment on their eyesight I guess). And as Bart and TGP know Clarkson smoke & mirrors and little bit of Houdini engineers a 75-72 win.  And this just in- Grazioli gets my useless vote for POY.  He was magnificient 12-20 from the floor 8 for 9 from the line numerous rebounds and played many minutes with 4 fouls (Izzi did a lot of offense/defense subbing quite well).  If he wants, he should definitely play pro ball overseas.  The man has skills.  No easy fast break points in this game just nifty back to the basket moves and a soft touch. Statesmen still have viable chance to get into the playoffs but most likely will have to run the table, which means must beat Hamilton tomorrow at home and take care of business against Union and Skidmore at home on the weekend.  RPI has truly difficult task as they too probably will have to sweep remaining 3 games @ Vassar on Tuesday and Clarkson & Saint Lawrence this weekend.  Vassar probably just needs to win 1 of three home games against RPI, Clarkson or SLU to get in.  Clarkson has to win one on the road @RPI or Vassar to have a legitimate shot.  Don't know status  of Pickering but I don't know that the Knights have enough "smoke and mirrors" to accomplish that.  6 teams with legit shots at the playoffs in the final week of the season is pretty awesome. What would be really interesting would be three teams tied for the 4th spot at 7-7 which I think is a possiblity.  I haven't a clue what the tie break would be? That may be my longest post ever so I'll shut up now!!

I am not certain how the LL would select a #4 seed if several teams end up 7-7 in the conference.  I know that in football the LL has a head to head tie breaker, but this would be tough to apply in a bb instance (especially b/c Hobart spilt their season series with Vassar, Clarkson and RPI).  The LL website is down at the moment, but I'll check back later to see whether or not there's any additional tie-breaker info.

The reality is that Hobart blew it's chance to control their own destiny with the loss to Clarkson.  A win against Hamilton would be huge, but I am not counting on it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 19, 2008, 10:48:30 PM
nice win for vassar tonight against rpi. rpi jumped out to a big early lead 28-15 but vc pressed them and went on a 24-7 run and ended up 1 at the half, then used a 12-0 run at the start of the second. rpi cut it to 3 with about 40 seconds left, but never got closer. the most impressive part of the win is that they did it with avitabile out for the last 30 minutes and kyle magnus, their starting center, in foul trouble the whole game. vc has a bunch of tough athletic wings that can pressure the heck out of you.

another great game for matt nunn and joe davis. and it is too bad sam simmons doesnt have more around him - i really like his game. he has an array of moves down low, he is tough on the boards, and he is strong as an ox.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on February 19, 2008, 11:17:33 PM
With Hobart loss coupled with win over RPI means that  Vassar is in the playoffs.  Why was Avitabile out?  He's too good not to be playing in this big a game!!!   Sick?  Hurt?  Hope not, he's a really good player and a really good person too from what I see.  Now it remains to be seen how the rest of the weekend plays out for the final spot.  We could conceivably have 3 teams at 7-7.  TGP did you have any luck at the website determining tie breakers after head to head?  Anyone else know?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 20, 2008, 10:12:20 AM
Quote from: with age comes? on February 19, 2008, 11:17:33 PM
With Hobart loss coupled with win over RPI means that  Vassar is in the playoffs.  Why was Avitabile out?  He's too good not to be playing in this big a game!!!   Sick?  Hurt?  Hope not, he's a really good player and a really good person too from what I see.  Now it remains to be seen how the rest of the weekend plays out for the final spot.  We could conceivably have 3 teams at 7-7.  TGP did you have any luck at the website determining tie breakers after head to head?  Anyone else know?

Probably sick.  A lot of the Hobart lacrosse starters didn't/weren't able to play in the prior weekend's scrimmage against Colgate, then Colgate went to Denver and got thumped with a lot of their starters out sick too.  Chances are a bug was involved.

I wasn't able to find anything on the LL website about tie breakers, but it is feasible that if the season ends in a 3 way tie for 4th place at 7-7, and all 3 teams split their season series, the next possible tie breaker could be regular season records, and/or PF/PA either overall or against LL opponents.  Right now I hope this favors Hobart since they have the "easiest" road to 7-7 with games against Union and the Skids, while Clarkson and RPI will face each other, then have to face Vassar and SLU, respectively.

The reality is, however, that if Clarkson beats RPI Friday, they are in as the 4 seed and your 08 LL tourney looks like this:

Clarkson vs. SLU
Hamilton vs. Vassar
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 20, 2008, 10:14:16 AM
the tie breaker after head to head is record against the other teams that made the tourney. so stl has already all but clinched home court because even if vassar wins out and stl loses out, they will have split their season series. both teams split with hamilton, but stl swept clarkson and hobart, and (assuming vassar wins out and rpi does not win the fourth seed) vassar split with hobart and clarkson. so if rpi can somehow get the fourth seed and vassar wins out, then they will host because they swept rpi and stl will have split.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 20, 2008, 10:17:29 AM
and avitabile wasnt sick, he got his legs taken out by simmons going for a rebound and landed on his back hitting his head on the floor pretty hard. he has had multiple concussions during his career, and it looks like he may have gotten another one. after he hit, he left the gym and didnt return.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 20, 2008, 12:29:43 PM
Quote from: bucketsallday on February 20, 2008, 10:17:29 AM
and avitabile wasnt sick, he got his legs taken out by simmons going for a rebound and landed on his back hitting his head on the floor pretty hard. he has had multiple concussions during his career, and it looks like he may have gotten another one. after he hit, he left the gym and didnt return.

ouch!  didn't see or read about that.  hopefully avitabile will be ok. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on February 20, 2008, 10:15:50 PM
sully is the best noon player in the liberty league!!!  take that to the bank ricky ro!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 20, 2008, 11:45:47 PM
isnt ricky ro the guy from blue chips that wasnt penny or shaq?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on February 21, 2008, 04:07:09 PM
crazy last two weeks in the LL...very interested in the RPI situation, anyone have more info about it?

I know a lot still needs to be decided, but any thoughts on post season awards?
I think POY is a tough call with Avitable, Grazioli & Simmons all good picks

If Clarkson gets in this weekend, I have to give Coach Stockwell Coach of the Year.

any thoughts??????????
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 21, 2008, 06:54:30 PM
as a vassar guy, I say you still have to give it to avitabile, although since he has been battling injuries and sickness all season he hasnt put up the best numbers. but vc is def havin the best year of the three teams, and he is their best player so..... it will be close, they all can ball.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FWS on February 22, 2008, 06:46:29 AM
How could RPI be in the LL tournament over Hobart when they beat Hobart using an ineligible player?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 22, 2008, 01:50:41 PM
If RPI is using an ineligble player then RPI should forfeit any games they won the player played in. That would be interesting on several different fronts, the 2 games that come to mind are against Hobart and Hamilton. Has it become "official" that an inelgible player was used because if so its kind of a no-brainer, and both Hobart and Hamilton would benefit with another win.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 22, 2008, 04:08:41 PM
the danish guy on the team sat out against vassar on tuesday night, and i know he joined the team half way thru the season. thats a good question because that would be a big difference in hamilton and stl end up tied.

whats the word on pickering? is he still hurt?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on February 23, 2008, 02:02:30 AM
RPI beat Clarkson pretty handily.  Clarkson was awful except for the for first ten minutes of the second half when they actually rallied from down 13 to take a one point lead. RPI came back and went on to win, helped themselves by hitting foul shots down the stretch and by commiting only 6 fouls for the entire game.  Vassar loses to STL.  My understanding of the tie breaker is record against the highest seeded teams in the league, so Hobart is already eliminated because Clarkson has the tie break on them.  RPI on the other hand can finish at 7-7 by beating SLU on Saturday at home.  SLU has no incentive to win so it could be a real possibility.  Clarkson is in if they win....  must beat Vassar at Vassar.  If they do they end up the 3rd seed as they would have swept Vassar.  If Clarkson loses the only way they can get in is SLU beats RPI because RPI at 7-7 would own the tie break over Clarkson by virtue of beating the top seed SLU at home Sat to even their league record.  Pickering did not play against RPI but he did warm up so I don't know what his status is for tomorrow (Sat. vs Vassar)  Vassar is in as the 3rd seed if they win and the fourth seed if they lose. As an addendum to the tie breaker first tie break is head to head and all teams involved split.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FWS on February 23, 2008, 07:39:39 AM
HOW COULD RPI BE IN THE LL TOURNAMENT AFTER ADMITTEDLY USING AN INELIGIBLE PLAYER ACCORDING TO A 2/20/08 TIMES UNION NEWSPAPER ARTICLE?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on February 23, 2008, 09:01:02 PM
The OlBallCoaches Thoughts on Liberty League Awards:

Coach of the Year Award: St Lawrence Head Coach, Chris Downs  
......
This Award is a no brainer for me as the Saints finished 12-2 in the LL, but far more importantly closed out the season with 5 consecutive wins,  while winning 7 of their last 8 (going 5-1 on the road in that span) games.

Player of the Year Award: Vassar Guard: Tyson Brazell  

This award is up for much debate as there are a handful of LL players with a legit shot.

I'll go with Vassar's Tyson Brazell, who had a fabulous all-around season.

Brazell finished as the only Liberty League player ranking in both the Top 5 in scoring (5th)and Top 5 steals (2nd).

Although he ranked high in many other statistical categories (12th in rebounding & 12th in assists) if one takes a close look at the final Liberty League Free Throw stats, Brazell's attempts and FT's made make a statement in themselves. He was able to get to the line far more than any other LL player (81 attempts) and made far more than any other LL player (66), while converting a solid 82% (7th).

While statistics are what coaches usually use to guage MVP's, circumstances must also be thrown into the mix.....and with Vassar down Avitable almost all of the final three conference games, it was the senior leadership of Tyson Brazell who put the Brewers on his back, leading to 2 VC wins.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: sjfcards on February 24, 2008, 02:20:06 AM
Are the LL tourny pairings out yet, or is the season not over yet? From what I can tell it could be a good show.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on February 24, 2008, 10:44:07 AM
Quote from: sjfcards on February 24, 2008, 02:20:06 AM
Are the LL tourny pairings out yet, or is the season not over yet? From what I can tell it could be a good show.

2008 Liberty League Championship
Friday, February 29 and Saturday, March 1
Hosted by St. Lawrence University

Semifinals - Friday, February 29
#3 Vassar vs #2 Hamilton - 6:00 pm
#4 Clarkson at #1 St. Lawrence - 8:00 pm

Championship - Saturday, March 1
Semifinal Winners - 3:00 pm
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 24, 2008, 06:01:37 PM
Tough break for Hobart not squeeking into the LL tourney, but a nice way for the 4 Statesmen seniors to wrap up their careers with a comeback win in Saratoga.

http://web.hws.edu/athletics/hobart/showrelease.asp?id=4450


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on February 24, 2008, 08:26:00 PM
Agreed tough break for Hobart to not make the tourney.  The loss that essentially put them out in my opinion was at Clarkson.  Clarkson did not have their leading scorer and rebounder (Elson Pickering) and they did not have him for the final 2 games at RPI or Vassar either, but somehow managed to squeek out the victory.  It must be said that a win over Hamilton would have put them in too, but Clarkson was the most vunerable.     As far as POY I've already said that Grazioli gets my meaningless vote.  He's the real deal. If he wants to be, a certain pro ballplayer in Europe, in my opinion.  Brazell is a good player but I'm not even sure if he's the best player on his own team.  Avitabile is an extremely hard worker who scores and rebounds exceedlingly well.  Simmons carried his RPI team on his back for virtually the whole season and if they win their last game against SLU they're in the playoffs. Woepper is the heart and sole of the SLU squad that was very deep and talented.  Harlee Wood at Hamilton was the stud for Hamilton and probably will get consideration but being a junior will probably not win.         As far as the annointing of Chris Downs as Coach of the year.  Yes he probably has the inside track, but Adam Stockwell brought Clarkson to the playoffs without a POY candidate, and possibly not even a first team all league candidate.  Pickering will probably be a 2nd teamer.  Linton and Murray may get looks for honorable mention but SLU, Hobart, Hamilton, Vassar, RPI all have first team possibles and possibly even Skidmore and Union may have as many candidates for honors.  That being said, it leaves coaching.  He had 5 of his top 8 players miss multiple games due to injury and they are still playing next weekend so I think he has to be at least considered for Coach of the year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 24, 2008, 09:33:32 PM
agreed. the guy from clarkson should get COY.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on February 25, 2008, 02:44:47 PM
I would have to give the nod to SLU for the tournament...playing at home, Clarkson and Vassar have injury issues to big players (Pickering & Avitable).
I think SLU beats Hamilton to go to the NCAA's. 

Coach of the Year-Stockwell from Clarkson

Player of the Year-Simmons from RPI-had less help and was the focal point of opponents defensive efforts yet still put them in a position to get in postseason

Rookie of the Year-???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bart1117 on February 25, 2008, 04:46:46 PM
Id give Rookie of the Year to Estep from Hobart...


He had a great year but the fact that Llewellyn had a solid year as well, might take some votes from him...I believe Estep won either rookie of the week or guard of the week somewhere near 7 times..thats solid for a frosh!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hoops on February 25, 2008, 05:08:51 PM
i think brazell, avitable, graozli and simmon sall can play overseas it just depends on how good their "connections" are. What do people thinkk the first team and second team willl look like?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: XVII on February 25, 2008, 08:17:16 PM
Simmons is playing next year, because he didn't play as a freshman and is attending RPI in 2008/2009.  Can anyone say back to back POYs?

First team: Grazioli, Simmons, Avitabile, Sharlow, and Wood
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hoops on February 25, 2008, 08:29:19 PM
really wow thats great for him. Not only can he be considered the early POY favorite,  RPI can be considered a legit contender next year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: XVII on February 25, 2008, 10:17:31 PM
Except they are losing all three guards that played any significant minutes: Zullo (transfer from Hamilton), Kowalczyk (transfer from RIT), and Galvin (4 year player).

If the underclassmen guards can't step it up, they'll be in trouble.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hoops on February 25, 2008, 10:28:15 PM
i agree but i expect brion to step up and be a top player next year for them i think he has that ability
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thomashoops42 on February 25, 2008, 11:17:58 PM
will rpi have any fallout from the ineligible player situation?  Also, didn't they lose some other players this year too?
Who are the underclassmen guards?
Simmons is a good start, but if they couldn't get into the playoffs with 3 senior guards, what do they have coming up?

I think Union will be much better next year too
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 26, 2008, 12:52:31 AM
Quote from: XVII on February 25, 2008, 08:17:16 PM
Simmons is playing next year, because he didn't play as a freshman and is attending RPI in 2008/2009.  Can anyone say back to back POYs?

First team: Grazioli, Simmons, Avitabile, Sharlow, and Wood

If simmons is POY he isnt on the first team, aka there are six first teamers i believe. regardless, i think brazell needs to be on that list. he is the best off guard in the conference. avitabile had a tough year with injuries, so although he is prob the best player in the conference, i doubt he gets the award (although tk missed a bunch of time last year and won it) because he didnt have the best year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on February 26, 2008, 04:06:49 AM
This was hard:

POY- Grazioli - Hobart    (Edges out Simmons & Avitabile)

1st Team :  Avitabile - Vassar
                  Simmons - RPI
                  Brazell -  Vassar
                  Wopperer - SLU
                  Wood -  Hamil

This was REALLY HARD:

2nd Team :   Demaris- Union
                     Douglas - Skd
                     Estep - Hobart
                     Pickering - Clark
                     Shaver - SLU (Really struggled between Shaver & Hoercher - SLU but Shaver gets the nod because he's a Sr.

This was nearly Impossible for me:

Honorable Mention:  Simpson - Hamil
                                 Hoercher - SLU
                                 Murray - Clark
                                 Linton- Clark
                                 Grimm - Union
                                 Willimas - SLU (If I only get 5 then Grimm & Williams were tied anyways, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.)

Possible Breakthroughs : Llewellyn - Hobart (Really struggled not putting him higher but for reason to be explained later- did not)
                                         Manns - Hamil
                                         Altimar- Skid
                                         Sharlow - SLU
                                         Wright- SLU
                                         Vonnak - SLU
                                         Goldstein - Union
                                         Rozgys - Hamil
                                         Haviland-Markowitz - Skid
                                         Butterworth - Vassar

SLU guys if they played on lesser teams would all be higher as their stats would probably be better but as they are probably going to win the league I'm sure they are happy where they are.

ROY - Estep (This was my easiest choice and the only no-brainer - unless somebody was watching a different league than me). This is the reason I didn't rate Llewellyn higher- Hobart with POY & ROY somebodies got to wait their turn and Frosh Llewellyn is the guy.

Coach of the year has to come down to two- Chris Downs- SLU or Adam Stockwell - Clarkson OlBall Coach gives a compelling agruement for Downs, 12-2 record, road wins down the stretch, etc I agree with what he said, but I think he had the horses and he rode them home.  He didn't I believe have to deal with multiple injuries and I think everyone expected SLU to be the team to beat.  He did what he was expected to do, Coach the most talented team in the league to victory.  Stockwell on the other hand had to deal with multiple game injuries to 5 of his top eight players.  I had Clarkson picked as last before the season began, but here they are playing this weekend.  They beat every team in the league except SLU (and that was only because of a questionable jump ball call with 4 seconds left and a great shot by Wopperer with 2.9 seconds left) They have been out shot at the freethrow line 211 to 122 by playoff teams (nearly 15 less attempts per game) but they are still playing.  I think Stockwell is the Coach of the Year, but Downs will get it......
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: XVII on February 26, 2008, 10:00:37 AM
Quote from: thomashoops42 on February 25, 2008, 11:17:58 PM
will rpi have any fallout from the ineligible player situation?  Also, didn't they lose some other players this year too?
Who are the underclassmen guards?
Simmons is a good start, but if they couldn't get into the playoffs with 3 senior guards, what do they have coming up?

I think Union will be much better next year too

Underclassmen guards are Anderson, (sophomore), Blakemore, Rashad Simmons, and Rodriguez (all freshman), and whoever they recruit.  Anderson has played 2 years of varsity and is looking to make waves.

I agree that Brion is a stud, let's hope he doesn't hit the sophomore slump.

Also, they do have the freshman Jeremy Bull, who played serious minutes for them as a 3 before going down with an ankle.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: XVII on February 26, 2008, 10:08:09 AM
Quote from: thomashoops42 on February 25, 2008, 11:17:58 PM
will rpi have any fallout from the ineligible player situation?  Also, didn't they lose some other players this year too?
Who are the underclassmen guards?
Simmons is a good start, but if they couldn't get into the playoffs with 3 senior guards, what do they have coming up?

I think Union will be much better next year too

Oh forgot to answer half the question: they lost Rourke, Gordon, and Korbas this year.  The first two were contributors in the front court, basically the first two forwards off the bench, though each had some injury problems.  Korbas was a PG who played some minutes.

I believe there won't be any fallout from Henrik-gate.  If they didn't have to forfeit the LL games, what else would the NCAA do?  It's not like they can lose scholarships.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thomashoops42 on February 26, 2008, 12:26:17 PM
XVII-I was thinking more along the lines of fallout from RPI itself...

Gordon and Rourke were the 2 I was thinking of, I don't know korbas.  Looking at next year, I think SLU stays really tough, as does Hamilton.  I think Hobart gets better, as does Union, RPI, if they get simmons back will be in the mix, but I think they need more, as does clarkson if they want to stay in the top 4.  I think Vassar falls back into the mix after being upper level the last few years.  It will be interesting to see if Skidmore gets any better after having a full year with the new coach
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: XVII on February 28, 2008, 08:54:55 PM
Well Simmons got SCREWED...

Simmons: 16.1 pts
Avitabile: 13.2

Simmons: 8.6 rebs
Avitabile: 8.1

Simmons: 54.7 FG%
Avitabile: 47.4%

Simmons: 5x forward of the week
Avitabile: 4x


Larry had 2 more assists, a lot more blocks, and a lot more help.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on February 29, 2008, 01:44:50 AM
Must admit that I was truly shocked that Llewellyn got ROY over team mate Estep.  Both were high school team mates also, I wonder how recogniction was handled there as well?  Nothing against Llewellyn he is an extremely good player but Estep was the better in my opinion.  As far as POY goes any from the top 3 Avitabile, Simmons , or uninamous selection Grazioli would have been good choices.  Perhaps the coaches felt that Simmons, since he's rumored to be coming back next year, will have his chance then, and chose to give the award to a non-returning Senior. The only first team shocker to me was Wright (I can only assume a huge lobbying campaign to get the senior on the first team). I felt there were several SLU players that played better throughout the year but you've got to like a senior getting honored. I was truly pleased to see Coach Stockwell recognized, he was my choice but I thought that Coach Downs would get the nod based on his 12-2 record. I'm looking forward to some great hoops tommorrow!!       One last question does anyone know why only 4 were honored as 2nd teamers? Last year they honored POY and 4 others on first team and 5 on second team?  Maybe they wanted to cap both teams at 10 total??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on February 29, 2008, 12:12:01 PM
does anyone know if there is any audio or livestats for the games tonight at SLU?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on February 29, 2008, 01:35:56 PM
I'm pretty sure that you can watch it on the STL website.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on February 29, 2008, 04:21:08 PM
Official 2008 LL Awards

Congrats goes to:

Coach Adam Stockwell (Clarkson) for earning Coach of the Year Honors

Lawrence Avitable (Vassar) for earnings Player of the Year Honors

LL First team 2008

F Lawrence Avitabile  Vassar SR Southington, CT
G Tyson Brazell  Vassar SR Salt Lake City, UT
F John Grazioli   Hobart SR Melville, NY
F Sam Simmons  Rensselaer SR Newburgh, NY
F Harlee Wood  Hamilton JR Clinton, MD
F Tyler Wright  St. Lawrence SR Teaneck, NJ

LL Second Team 2008

F Drew Desmarais  Union JR St. James, NY
F Elson Pickering  Clarkson JR Brooklyn, NY
G Josh Sharlow  St. Lawrence SO Norwood, NY
G Jay Simpson  Hamilton SO Fort Washington, MD

Ok, so I wasn't correct in either of my Coach (Downs) or Player (Brazell) of the Year selections.... yet, even if you were to subject me to "water boarding" I wouldn't change my selections.

Best of Luck to all the teams and coaches ( St Lawrence, Vassar, Hamilton, Clarkson) playing this evening at St Lawrence.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hoops on February 29, 2008, 05:22:07 PM
It was really wide open this year 3 or 4 guys could have gotten POY and a couple coaches could have also. First time ina couple years you could have given it to many people and not gotten upset.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 29, 2008, 10:40:10 PM
If the Clarkson website is accurate, the Knights beat SLU at SLU in the LL 4 vs. 1 game 54-48.

This certainly throws another of the regionally ranked teams out the window.

Knights face Hamilton, a 58-57 winner over Vassar tomorrow at 3:00.  Wonder if they will move the game to Clarkson?


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on March 01, 2008, 10:42:23 AM
Why wouldn't the Clarkson website not be accurate.... what is this Dewey beats Truman??  Also, I HIGHLY doubt that the venue would change, especially to the lower seed!!!!  Cmon Bear pick up your game, you are better than that!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 01, 2008, 03:33:47 PM
The only reason I questioned the accuracy of this one, is that the score involved a Clarkson sport other than hockey.

For about a thirty year period, this would have been the height of incredulity to see Clarkson beat SLU in hoops.

If Clarkson wins, they will be 11-16 goin to the dance.

From local radio reports, the game started with a fairly empty gym, guess folks are finally starting to arrive.

Latest score I've heard is Hamilton 27-23 at the half.

Nap time

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 01, 2008, 04:42:26 PM
Final - Clarkson 58 Hamilton 53.

Hell is forming icicles.

Congrats to the Knights for their first NCAA baketball tournament bid.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 08:10:54 PM
When a 16-loss team wins the automatic bid, that says a lot about the quality of teams in the league
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on March 01, 2008, 10:47:15 PM
Quote from: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 08:10:54 PM
When a 16-loss team wins the automatic bid, that says a lot about the quality of teams in the league

Well, Clarkson may have finished with 16 losses, but they were 7-7 in the league. Plus they beat the top seed on the No. 1's home floor and the No. 3 seed. They were a combined 1-3 against those two teams during the regular season, the lone win coming at Hamilton. They were 3-9 before they even got into league play, so maybe the Knights were a team that gelled at the right time.

The LL wasn't that strong a league this year, it's true, but maybe Clarkson had more heart than the other three teams in the conference tourney. How else do you explain SLU folding in the first round game, and Hamilton barely slipping past Vassar only to lose to Clarkson.

Yeah, I know, Vassar was much improved this year, but their 9-2 non-conference record was built on smoke and mirrors. St. Law was 5-7 non-conference and Hamilton had a weak 8-4 non-conference record.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 02, 2008, 12:51:52 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on March 01, 2008, 10:47:15 PM
Quote from: met_fan on March 01, 2008, 08:10:54 PM
When a 16-loss team wins the automatic bid, that says a lot about the quality of teams in the league

Well, Clarkson may have finished with 16 losses, but they were 7-7 in the league. Plus they beat the top seed on the No. 1's home floor and the No. 3 seed. They were a combined 1-3 against those two teams during the regular season, the lone win coming at Hamilton. They were 3-9 before they even got into league play, so maybe the Knights were a team that gelled at the right time.

The LL wasn't that strong a league this year, it's true, but maybe Clarkson had more heart than the other three teams in the conference tourney. How else do you explain SLU folding in the first round game, and Hamilton barely slipping past Vassar only to lose to Clarkson.

Yeah, I know, Vassar was much improved this year, but their 9-2 non-conference record was built on smoke and mirrors. St. Law was 5-7 non-conference and Hamilton had a weak 8-4 non-conference record.

You're making my case for me.  All I was saying is that the league isn't much good this year.  You say 7-7 as if that's a good record.  Clarkson may be hot, but that shouldn't be enough to get past a legitimate #1 seed. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on March 02, 2008, 01:23:12 AM
Time for my $.02.  SLU had head to head wins over B-port, Oswego, & e-8 league title holder Ithaca & Bates.  Hamilton beat B-port, Williams, (and the hot finisher in the e-8 Utica).  Non playoff team Hobart beat St john Fisher a team that lost in the championship game of the e-8 by one point. Call the liberty league weak if you like.  Clarkson had multiple game injuries to 5 of its top eight players. The full team squad was 9-4.  I prefer to think that the liberty league is far more balanced than its given credit for. On the last the week of the season 6 out of 8 teams had legitimate shots at the playoffs and Union was one of the hottest teams of the league for the second half but started out a woeful 0-7, but beat playoff teams SLU, Clarkson & Hamilton in the 2nd half.  I didn't see that type of parity from the Alfred's , Hartwicks, Elmira's, or Fredonia's, Buff State's, or SUNYIT's. I've always said that the SUNYAC is the toughest conference at the top with Platts, Oswego, B-port, Cortland, & Geneseo but top to bottom there are more breather games in both the e-8 and the SUNYAC than there are in the liberty league.  By the way Clarkson's at full strength.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2008, 03:47:45 AM
I'm inclined to agree with the man who just added his $.02. with age comes has probably seen more games involving the LL teams than most of the other posters. His earlier remarks about Clarkson (and I'm talking about weeks ago not a few days) and other teams in the conference  have proven his analysis to be right on the money. Any team no matter who they are is going to struggle when 60% of your team is missing. Now that they are healthy they're finally making some noise. Good for them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 02, 2008, 09:36:57 AM
Quote from: with age comes? on March 02, 2008, 01:23:12 AM
Time for my $.02.  SLU had head to head wins over B-port, Oswego, & e-8 league title holder Ithaca & Bates.  Hamilton beat B-port, Williams, (and the hot finisher in the e-8 Utica).  Non playoff team Hobart beat St john Fisher a team that lost in the championship game of the e-8 by one point. Call the liberty league weak if you like.  Clarkson had multiple game injuries to 5 of its top eight players. The full team squad was 9-4.  I prefer to think that the liberty league is far more balanced than its given credit for. On the last the week of the season 6 out of 8 teams had legitimate shots at the playoffs and Union was one of the hottest teams of the league for the second half but started out a woeful 0-7, but beat playoff teams SLU, Clarkson & Hamilton in the 2nd half.  I didn't see that type of parity from the Alfred's , Hartwicks, Elmira's, or Fredonia's, Buff State's, or SUNYIT's. I've always said that the SUNYAC is the toughest conference at the top with Platts, Oswego, B-port, Cortland, & Geneseo but top to bottom there are more breather games in both the e-8 and the SUNYAC than there are in the liberty league.  By the way Clarkson's at full strength.

Did any LL team beat an NCAA team all year?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 02, 2008, 11:04:34 AM
LL has at least 7 wins against NCAA teams - the 7 conference losses that Clarkson had.

Will look at the LL schedule once the bids come out.  Some possibilities e.g. Hamilton def Williams.
Too hard to figure until the field is settled.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 02, 2008, 11:19:31 AM
Quote from: thebear on March 02, 2008, 11:04:34 AM
LL has at least 7 wins against NCAA teams - the 7 conference losses that Clarkson had.

Will look at the LL schedule once the bids come out.  Some possibilities e.g. Hamilton def Williams.
Too hard to figure until the field is settled.





In league games don't count, I'm sorry......and Williams finished in a tie for sixth place in their league.  I'm a fan of the LL - I just don't see the quality there this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on March 02, 2008, 07:21:38 PM
Congratulations and best of luck to Clarkson U. and Coach Stockwell.  He definitely deserved COY honors!!  Especially after being picked to finish last by some pundits.  According to with age comes?  Coach Stockwell had 5 of his top 8 players miss multiple games due to injury.  No POY, no ROY, no 1st team picks, no one player carrying the team on his back and no "absolute transfer studs".  Just the concepts of honest hard work, team chemistry, control and patience.  Looks like they did "right the ship" and played to their potential.
Even though I agree with met fan regarding the lack of quality and strength in the Liberty League this year, Clarkson seems like the real deal!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Cards7580 on March 02, 2008, 08:06:12 PM
"....When a 16-loss team wins the automatic bid, that says a lot about the quality of teams in the league..."

Back when Plattsburgh went all the way to the final four (1975-76 season) they had about that many losses during the regular season, but were 9-1 in their SUNYAC conference.  The one loss was to Oswego in Oswego with Mike Deane substitute coaching for Norm Law.  I think they lost by 1 point or somewhere in the single digit neighborhood. 

The beat Potsdam at home to win the SUNYAC title in the last conference regular season game.   Brockport was coming off an NCAA final four appearance, Potsdam was just beginning to become a national power, and Oneonta State was an extremely good team also. (1976-77 season Oneonta was 2nd in Division III in the NCAA).  So it all depends on when a team gets hot, and IF their league has a season tournament to determine who goes, well thats the way it goes.  Clarkson is not as bad as their record indicates.  Many of the Plattsburgh players were not shocked when told of Clarkson's win on Saturday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 02, 2008, 08:18:15 PM
Actually 76-77 was Potsdam's worst year under Jerry Welsh.  I think they were 10-16 or something like that.  They had some key graduation losses, then two starters were hurt in the early season and lost for the year. 

They still only lost by a point, and that was the only game Jerry Welsh ever lost to Plattsburgh from 1970 - 1991. - You can look it up.

Bears had been to two NCAA College Division (D-II & III) tourneys in 72-73 & 73-74, then Deane and Bence graduated to dominate the PBA for a number of years.

Potsdam beat #1 ranked Hamilton to win the ECAC's in '77-78, and then began their run of 11 straight NCAA tournaments in 78-79.

P.S. Mike Deane's team just set a school record for wins at Wagner with 22.  They have the best record of any D-I school in the NY/NJ/Ct Metro area.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 02, 2008, 09:37:11 PM
Quote from: Cards7580 on March 02, 2008, 08:06:12 PM
"....When a 16-loss team wins the automatic bid, that says a lot about the quality of teams in the league..."

Back when Plattsburgh went all the way to the final four (1975-76 season) they had about that many losses during the regular season, but were 9-1 in their SUNYAC conference.  The one loss was to Oswego in Oswego with Mike Deane substitute coaching for Norm Law.  I think they lost by 1 point or somewhere in the single digit neighborhood. 

The beat Potsdam at home to win the SUNYAC title in the last conference regular season game.   Brockport was coming off an NCAA final four appearance, Potsdam was just beginning to become a national power, and Oneonta State was an extremely good team also. (1976-77 season Oneonta was 2nd in Division III in the NCAA).  So it all depends on when a team gets hot, and IF their league has a season tournament to determine who goes, well thats the way it goes.  Clarkson is not as bad as their record indicates.  Many of the Plattsburgh players were not shocked when told of Clarkson's win on Saturday.

Clarkson may very well be a good team, but it still does not change my overall opinion of the LL this year.  In fact, outside of Plattsburgh and Rochester, there are a lot of pretty comparable teams all over NY this year, but not many that are capable of making much of a run in the NCAAs. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OlBallCoach on March 03, 2008, 09:39:54 AM
Congrats to Clarkson

Although it's true that they weren't the top team of the LL going into the tourny, one thing for certain they were was the best defensive team in the LL throughout this season.

They held their play true to form, relying on their aggressive defensive style to get the job done, and thus were rewarded with two hard earned victories and a NCAA Tourny Birth.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on March 03, 2008, 02:50:30 PM
Bear, great comeback with the 7 losses to Clarkson.  Keep all that Sunyac stuff out of here baby. Just kidding.  Quick refresher in St. Lawrence basketball history.  I remember when Coach Davis was running the show in the late 80's early 90's and the Golden Knights were holding their own against the Larries. Coach Anderson did okay when he was at Clarkson.  The pre Paulsen/Downs days weren't all that special.  If there was an online course in Potsdam and Plattsburgh hoops I would recommend you and the Cards fellow to teach it.  You guys are amazing with that stuff. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on March 04, 2008, 07:23:02 AM
Best of luck to the only 2 LL teams left standing.  Vassar in the ECACs on Wed. vs. SJF and Clarkson in the NCAAs vs. Kings on Thursday. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bucketsallday on March 04, 2008, 05:58:52 PM
can someone please explain to me how vassar is not hosting a game in the ECAC tourney? ok, you definently cant put them in front of brockport (how did they not make the tournament, by the way?), and 2, 3, and 4 dont even matter that much as they can only host one game since there are only seven teams this year, and the one seed will automatically host the final four, but this team doesnt deserve a home game? they went 18-7, finished tied for second in the LL, and they are the defending ECAC champs. st john fisher was tied for third in the E8, and had a 16-11 record. i may be wrong here, but i was under the impression that ecac seedings were solely based on record.

i dunno. im just getting the feeling that vassar got shafted here.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: MHoops on March 04, 2008, 06:49:32 PM
I thought at first Vassar got the shaft as well, but the ECAC selection criteria (http://ecac.org/championships/team/policies/selection_criteria) is as follows:

The committee will review all of the following primary criteria (in priority order):

1. Divisional winning percentage, head-to-head results, results against common opponents;
2. Strength-of-schedule to be determined in part by results against teams selected into the NCAA or already in the tournament; and
3. Regular season conference standings


Fisher and Vassar's common opponents:

  Vassar split with Hobart W 78-73, L 56-57;  Fisher lost to Hobart 80-84 
  Vassar beat Hartwick 58-55;  Fisher beat Hartwick 69-59, 70-61


I imagine it therefore came down to strength of schedule, which gives Fisher a slight edge.  If Vassar wins Wednesday, then it's a long trip home late Wednesday night followed by another long trip back up to the Rochester area on Saturday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on March 04, 2008, 09:05:24 PM
I think the Liberty League and the SUNYAC suffer from the same malady ( parity ).  The LL had 7 pretty good teams with a real shot to beat each other on any given night. A perfect case in point might well be Union.  They may have been at or near the top of the league for the second half of the season with a 5-2 record and wins against SLU, Clarkson, and Hamilton (all playoff teams). While you get 2 teams in from the LEC Mass-Darmouth & Rhode Island because they don't get beat as often by the lower tier teams. Keene State split with Mass-Dartmouth but got beat at home by SUNYAC doormat New Paltz. Keene also got pounded by Williams by 20 and Hamilton beat Williams.  I'm not saying that Rhode Island & Mass-Dartmouth aren't deserving - they are, but probably no more than SLU or Hamilton, but SLU & Hamilton get beat by the lowly Union's and Clarkson's and don't get the nod.  I think the same can be said for the SUNYAC but the parity is at the top (except for Platts who is in a world of their own), the b-ports, Oswego's, Geneseo's, & Cortland's trade all these losses thereby eliminating a very deserving b-port or any of the above teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Cards7580 on March 04, 2008, 09:20:49 PM
"...Bear, great comeback with the 7 losses to Clarkson.  Keep all that Sunyac stuff out of here baby. Just kidding.  Quick refresher in St. Lawrence basketball history.  I remember when Coach Davis was running the show in the late 80's early 90's and the Golden Knights were holding their own against the Larries. Coach Anderson did okay when he was at Clarkson.  The pre Paulsen/Downs days weren't all that special.  If there was an online course in Potsdam and Plattsburgh hoops I would recommend you and the Cards fellow to teach it.  You guys are amazing with that stuff. ..."

Thanks for the compliment.  I feel that when you talk about Potsdam and Plattsburgh you need to include the other two North Country teams.   St Lawrence and Plattsburgh play at least once every year as does Clarkson.   Neither game is easy to win (at least not the ones I have seen).  All of these teams with the exception of Clarkson have been in the NCAA before. I applaud them for winning despite the odds.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 04, 2008, 09:57:15 PM
Quote from: Cards7580 on March 04, 2008, 09:20:49 PM
The pre Paulsen/Downs days weren't all that special. [quote}

Compliments graciously accepted along with any & all + or - k's.

Actually In my era, Paul Evans [later Navy (David Robinson) & Pitt] had the Saints & he & Welsh used to get tangled up in some epic battles.  The Big Eye in the sky would have had trouble reffing a game with those two going at it.  Than as Cards pointed out, Evans leveraged the happy circumstance of D. Robinson growing 5 inches his freshman year into the Pitt job and hired long-time Plattsburgh head man Norm Law as his top assistant, springing Law from the purgatory of one win against the Bears in about 15 years.

Happy to keep the history lessons, and also enjoy in my dotage watching some very competitive D-III games.

Wish the Cards TV could be streamed the way Oneonta streams all of their games.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on March 05, 2008, 11:59:09 AM
Getting caught up on previous posts and am curious about the RPI brouhaha.  Looks like they lost 4 or 5 players (seems like a significant # in one season) with the most compelling being the ineligible foreign transfer.  I read the Albany Times Union article and apparently the player didn't inform the coach that he had already been on a team in Denmark during the fall.  Sounds like the responsibility was his, not RPI's.   So, to answer thomashoops42 question-any fallout from RPI itself?- I am assuming that if they weren't deemed responsible, there were no consequences.  One other thing I noted from many posts was that their best player had little or no help.  With a 17-18 player roster that seems strange.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thomashoops42 on March 05, 2008, 03:23:40 PM
Interesting points FLYZ5, I guess the question is why are those players leaving?  And the other is how do you have so many players and not have much help for Simmons?  And, I guess, if he really didn't have any real help like many other teams in the LL but still did what he did, maybe he should have been POY.

Are there any RPI posters with insight?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: XVII on March 05, 2008, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: thomashoops42 on March 05, 2008, 03:23:40 PM
Interesting points FLYZ5, I guess the question is why are those players leaving?  And the other is how do you have so many players and not have much help for Simmons?  And, I guess, if he really didn't have any real help like many other teams in the LL but still did what he did, maybe he should have been POY.

Are there any RPI posters with insight?

I've been watching RPI for 4 years and I live with many of the players, so this is all I can deduce from our season:

Players don't quit in the middle of the season, especially large contributors like Gordon and Rourke, unless they coincidentally both had school or family issues, or they don't believe in the system and are bailing out like rats bailing out of a sinking ship (yeah I'm an engineer but I can use similes with the best of the liberal arts students).

After the Henrik incident, it seemed like most of the team quit caring, at least until they found out that they wouldn't have to forfeit their games after all.

The coaching staff cost them the first Hamilton game, which set the tone for the rest of the season.   The bench was T'd up after a not-so-dubious call, and that changed the momentum of the entire game.  Hamilton was on a run, or went on a run right after that.

Coach Griff's refusal to start Rupp and Brion, when they were absolutely playing better than Bull and Philatre, may have led to animosity.  Rupp only started the last three games because Bull went down with an ankle.

Kris Kowalczyk was suspended for the second Union game, which we lost.  He may have made a difference.  I think it was a league suspension for punching a Hobart player on the road.   Didn't see that one, but heard it was reminiscent of when Simmons sucker punched Haviland-Markowitz back in the day.

Finally, after 4 years, I've seen one LL playoff game, which we were blown out in.  I can promise you that RPI doesn't have a monopoly on bad players.  We've had Paris Moore, John Van Schaick, Tom Schneider, Neal Wesson, Sam Simmons, great LL players, but somehow are always fighting to get in.

There's a reason that Hamilton is consistently good and we're consistently mediocre.  It always comes back to leadership.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 05, 2008, 06:47:08 PM
I posted this several days ago in the NESCAC forum:
Take this for what it's worth (which might be nothing), but at the end of this article, a lacrosse/football recruit for Hamilton says Hamilton told him the lacrosse team plans to move to a NESCAC schedule.  If that were to be the case, I wonder if basketball would go the same route.

http://www.salemnews.com/pusports/local_story_053134457.html?keyword=secondarystory
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thomashoops42 on March 06, 2008, 12:42:35 PM
XVII, sounds like you have a lot of insight on the team.  So you think the blame rests on the "leadership"?  I also am curious how Simmons can come back, isn't he listed as a senior?  I am not familiar enough with the situation to know and it sounds like you are.
How do you think RPI will be next year?  Will the leadership be better? Who will step up?  Looking at the stats, Zullo & Kowalcyk are the next leading scorers, at 8.5 & 8 ppg.  Both of them are seniors, so who can score besides Simmons?

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: poker33 on March 06, 2008, 03:10:23 PM
Does anyone know why Hamilton was not selected for the ECAC tourney?  Did they choose not to participate?  It seems with a 17-9 record, better than almost every other team in ECAC, they would have been chosen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: MHoops on March 06, 2008, 05:03:24 PM
Quote from: poker33 on March 06, 2008, 03:10:23 PM
Does anyone know why Hamilton was not selected for the ECAC tourney?  Did they choose not to participate?  It seems with a 17-9 record, better than almost every other team in ECAC, they would have been chosen.

I imagine they either declined or were not eligible due to the 19 week season NCAA rule.   They are not on the list of ECAC declared teams (http://ecac.org/championships/team/mbkb/2007-08/DIII_Men-s_Bball.pdf).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 06, 2008, 06:54:25 PM
Hamilton follows NESCAC guidelines.  They used to only play in the ECAC's.  Once NESCAC decided to play in the NCAA's they took the ECAC off the table, or at least that's what I've been told.

For example in '91, in Jerry Welsh's last D-III game, Potsdam faced an undefeated and NABC #1 ranked Hamilton squad in the ECAC finals, and beat them when their second string point guard, replacing the starter who had been dismissed from the team, went off for 26.  Famous Jim Boeheim quote about that one, the "If Welsh was such a great coach, why did he have a guy who scored 26 against the best team in the country sitting on the bench".!

Welsh won that game, and took the Iona job shortly after.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 06, 2008, 06:55:20 PM
Quote from: poker33 on March 06, 2008, 03:10:23 PM
Does anyone know why Hamilton was not selected for the ECAC tourney?  Did they choose not to participate?  It seems with a 17-9 record, better than almost every other team in ECAC, they would have been chosen.

NESCAC teams don't go the ECACs, and even though Hamilton doesn't currently play a NESCAC schedule in basketball, they still go by the same rules.  That is my understanding, anyway.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: MHoops on March 06, 2008, 07:47:16 PM
Quote from: thebear on March 06, 2008, 06:54:25 PM
Hamilton follows NESCAC guidelines.  They used to only play in the ECAC's.  Once NESCAC decided to play in the NCAA's they took the ECAC off the table, or at least that's what I've been told.

Quote from: met_fan on March 06, 2008, 06:55:20 PM
NESCAC teams don't go the ECACs, and even though Hamilton doesn't currently play a NESCAC schedule in basketball, they still go by the same rules.  That is my understanding, anyway.

Thanks for the clarification.  The team capsule on Hamilton's basketball web site talks about the 10 ECAC Upstate titles that they've won so I had assumed they still participated in the ECAC tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 06, 2008, 08:43:51 PM
Quote from: MHoops on March 06, 2008, 07:47:16 PM
Quote from: thebear on March 06, 2008, 06:54:25 PM
Hamilton follows NESCAC guidelines.  They used to only play in the ECAC's.  Once NESCAC decided to play in the NCAA's they took the ECAC off the table, or at least that's what I've been told.

Quote from: met_fan on March 06, 2008, 06:55:20 PM
NESCAC teams don't go the ECACs, and even though Hamilton doesn't currently play a NESCAC schedule in basketball, they still go by the same rules.  That is my understanding, anyway.

Thanks for the clarification.  The team capsule on Hamilton's basketball web site talks about the 10 ECAC Upstate titles that they've won so I had assumed they still participated in the ECAC tournament.

Yeah - those are from the days (pre-'94 or so) before NESCAC schools could participate in the NCAAs.  NESCAC schools stopped going to ECACs around 2001.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 06, 2008, 08:56:45 PM
It appears Clarkson did not put up much of a fight or represent the LL very well - 30 point loss in the opening round.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 06, 2008, 09:20:30 PM
Clarkson ran into a red hot Kings team. They shot 64.7% from 3 pt. land, nailing 11 of 17. Overall they shot 61.2% from the field hitting 30 of 49 attempts. Tough to overcome. Too bad for the Golden Knights, but with all 5 starters back next year, they may get a return trip to the NCAA's. Congrats are in order for getting their 1st ever bid and winning 2 big games back to back to do so.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Cards7580 on March 06, 2008, 09:35:39 PM
Two Thumbs up

It's not easy being Green and Gold :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on March 07, 2008, 08:41:32 PM
Clarkson did struggle in the first half. Kings has been in NCAA's 3 out the last 4 years (once reaching the elite 8) and the experience showed.  The Knights never seemed to get untracked early and Kings was torrid, knocking down 3's and feeding their big (Sobleski) inside who pretty much scored at will. Magic & Cards if you have connections to Platts these things will help your team. 1) This really is Soboleski's team in half court offense.  Your bigs CANNOT FALL for his numerous ball fakes, head and shoulder fakes etc.  Tell them to stay on their feet until he (Soboleski) jumps and then time the block. They will be much better off and prevent a steady stream of fouls shots as when Soboleski gets players in the air he uses his big body well draws contact, finishes and gets the calls (at least in Wilkes Barre).  Their point guard Cousart is listed at 6'4" (no way) he's really about 6'2" 6'3" tops. He has a "sick" crossover left hand to right and penetrates really well.  He likes to penetrate deep into the paint on the break and dish back out to the 3 (usually on the left wing as you face the basket).  He was particularly effective with that to big Nestiel who shot the lights out against Clarkson (4 of 5 from beyond the arc).  Cousart also likes to drive get people into the air and finish.  He and Soboleski took 13 foul shots each and totaled more than the whole Clarkson team both in attempts and makes.  There was a huge disparity in attempts until almost garbage time in the second half (which was for all intents and purposes virtually the whole second half). Also there was a small guard Dwebeng who came off the bench to shoot the 3 very well too.    But from my vantage point the key for Plattsburgh will be to stop Soboleski (a poor man's Hauben from U o R a few years ago) from dominating down low. DON'T GO FOR FAKES!!!  Limiting penetration from Cousart. and not letting Nenstiel go off from 3. Should be a very good game.  Good luck to the cards!! And congratulations to Clarkson for their late run, they should be proud to have danced!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 08, 2008, 01:58:53 AM
withage,

Thanks for your excellent analysis. Plus k. We pretty much knew it was the Soboleski and Cousart show. Layups from the big guy and drive and dish from the guard. Wondered about that 6' 4" claim also. You provided some details that will certainly help. I've passed your comments along to Plattsburgh's Assistant Coach who is a friend of mine. Hopefully they'll come in handy. Maybe a nice steal on that kickout to the left wing, or a few stuffs early on by our bigs on Soboleski, to get him out of his rhythm.

I left a post for you on the SUNYAC board as well.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hoops on March 08, 2008, 09:50:57 PM
how big is  sobleski that he had to use all those fakes?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Cards7580 on March 09, 2008, 03:44:30 AM
He's listed at 6' 6" 245 lbs.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age comes? on March 09, 2008, 07:33:25 PM
I'd say that was fairly accurate.  He was a wide body, that did not have to use the fakes but did to create contact and draw fouls. About 6'6" 245 lbs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on March 18, 2008, 04:34:58 PM
Quote from: XVII on March 05, 2008, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: thomashoops42 on March 05, 2008, 03:23:40 PM
Interesting points FLYZ5, I guess the question is why are those players leaving?  And the other is how do you have so many players and not have much help for Simmons?  And, I guess, if he really didn't have any real help like many other teams in the LL but still did what he did, maybe he should have been POY.

Are there any RPI posters with insight?

I've been watching RPI for 4 years and I live with many of the players, so this is all I can deduce from our season:

Players don't quit in the middle of the season, especially large contributors like Gordon and Rourke, unless they coincidentally both had school or family issues, or they don't believe in the system and are bailing out like rats bailing out of a sinking ship (yeah I'm an engineer but I can use similes with the best of the liberal arts students).

After the Henrik incident, it seemed like most of the team quit caring, at least until they found out that they wouldn't have to forfeit their games after all.

The coaching staff cost them the first Hamilton game, which set the tone for the rest of the season.   The bench was T'd up after a not-so-dubious call, and that changed the momentum of the entire game.  Hamilton was on a run, or went on a run right after that.

Coach Griff's refusal to start Rupp and Brion, when they were absolutely playing better than Bull and Philatre, may have led to animosity.  Rupp only started the last three games because Bull went down with an ankle.

Kris Kowalczyk was suspended for the second Union game, which we lost.  He may have made a difference.  I think it was a league suspension for punching a Hobart player on the road.   Didn't see that one, but heard it was reminiscent of when Simmons sucker punched Haviland-Markowitz back in the day.

Finally, after 4 years, I've seen one LL playoff game, which we were blown out in.  I can promise you that RPI doesn't have a monopoly on bad players.  We've had Paris Moore, John Van Schaick, Tom Schneider, Neal Wesson, Sam Simmons, great LL players, but somehow are always fighting to get in.

There's a reason that Hamilton is consistently good and we're consistently mediocre.  It always comes back to leadership.   

XVII---Your final point of analysis regarding consistent mediocrity is food for thought.  Most integral parts of a team are variable and fluctuate from year to year while the essential and crucial factors of leadership and guidance are the only components that generally remain constant.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on March 24, 2008, 05:35:40 PM
CONGRATULATIONS to Liberty League student-athletes John Grazioli of Hobart and Lawrence Avitabile of Vassar who have been honored by D3HOOPS & the National Association of  Basketball Coaches. Both Grazioli and Avitabile have been named to the D3HOOPS All-East Region 2nd team and to the NABC  Division III All District East 2nd team.  It's great to see the Liberty League represented.  Kudos to both on exceptional college careers!  Definitely well deserved!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on March 28, 2008, 09:43:47 AM
Legendary Coach Thomas Murphy has been awarded the 2008 NABC Outstanding Service Award.  Beyond question, an exceptionally adroit and dedicated coach, he spent 34 seasons as head coach at Hamilton College with an impressive record of 602-263.  The best part of the story is the measure of his success as meaningfully illustrated in the words of many of the fine and fortunate athletes has has coached over the years - "trusted, respected, mentor, leader, teacher, role model, fair, rare moral character, honest, sincere integrity, honorable, uncompromising values, significant personal regard for his players, believes in the concept of team and one of the finest coaches in the country at any level."  Need anyone say more??  Coach Murphy's legacy embodies the uncommon and genuine spirit of coaching and we congratulate him on this worthy honor!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: basketball on April 02, 2008, 10:05:36 PM
Any word on Recruits ?
I posted one about a Vermonter going to Union earlier. And i found this one of about a shooter from NY going to hamilton,  Ephraim Herskovitz. The link is below.

http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/news/article/273/DIII-Commitment-CatchUp.php
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on April 08, 2008, 12:06:28 PM
If you love d-3 hoops - (to quote gobombers from the E8 boards) "it's never too early to look forward to 2008-09:

1.  HAMILTON     144/404 (Current Massey Rating)
Returning all 5 starters.  Controlled, patient and very athletic.  Great shooting team, young & solid.  Harlee Wood (2009 POY candidate).  The dominant team to beat.  Very well coached.

2.  ST. LAWRENCE   106/404
Returning 4 starters.  Deep, talented and balanced.  Play with intensity.  Effective leadership.  Team-centric.  Coaching staff doesn't seem concerned with inflating any single player's stats.  Worthwhile philosophy if you want to finish at the top.

3.  CLARKSON   274/404
Returning all 5 starters.  Most fun team to watch.  Consistent gritty defense.  Epitomize selfless team play.  Dedicated coach (COY) had to deal with numerous injuries and did so while keeping the team in sync.
Elson Pickering (2009 POY candidate).

4.  HOBART  251/404
Returning 4 starters.  Disciplined team.  Have some experienced underclassmen.  Coach seems to be a knowledgeable strategist.  Should do well.

5.  UNION  300/404
Returning 4 starters.  Should be more competitive and balanced.  Look for improvement.

6.  VASSAR  180/404
Returning 2 starters.  Losses to graduation may be too much to overcome.

7.  RPI  264/404
Returning 2 starters.  Lost significant # of experienced upperclassmen.  Not sure what effect the inopportune ineligible player situation may have had.
Look to rebuild.

8.  SKIDMORE  360/404
Returning 3 starters.  Young, energetic & enthusiastic coach is a huge plus.  Look for needed improvement.

Any Thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: basketball on April 08, 2008, 04:27:21 PM
Whats the situation with Simmons at RPI is he done? or os he coming back? Cause if hes coming back i got a feeling they will be a little higher then 7th. Other then that I agree with your rankings
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on April 11, 2008, 10:40:01 AM
At this point in time, Sam Simmons is intending to return to RPI next year - this comment from an RPI staff member who is an old friend of mind.   HOWEVER, as the statement was put to me, that is not yet a definite.

RPI would be extremely happy to have him return
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on April 23, 2008, 01:44:01 PM
The Eastern College Athletic Conference has announced its 2007-08 Division III Men's Basketball All-Stars. 
Well deserved congratulations go to Liberty League Player of the Year Lawrence Avitable of Vassar for ECAC 1st Team honors and to
Hobart's John Grazioli selected as a 2nd Team All Star.
Respected student-athletes, both Avitable & Grazioli were unselfish & skilled competitors and committed & effective team players.  Each has received many noteworthy and justly earned accolades during their college basketball careers and both will certainly be missed by their respective teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on June 06, 2008, 10:25:13 AM

Any news out of the Liberty League?

Some things I have over heard while out at some aau tournaments-

Tobin Anderson may look to get the Williams job

Chris Downs may be looking at Bates

Union will be much better next year

Skidmore is bringing in a bunch of new players
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on June 06, 2008, 01:02:38 PM
I heard Downs interviewed for the Bates job, also with Anderson's recruiting class as well as his current team I doubt he will be looking elsewhere, but who knows.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Knightstalker on July 15, 2008, 10:50:59 AM
Former RPI point guard  Bob Hurley  (http://www.nj.com/sports/jjournal/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1216103105158280.xml&coll=3&thispage=1)is the new head coach at Stevens.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: tothehole on August 09, 2008, 05:05:10 PM
Any news on the Vassar Coaching position?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on August 09, 2008, 11:25:15 PM
What happened to Coach Dutton?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: tothehole on August 10, 2008, 12:12:00 AM
He's taken an AD position in Maine.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on August 10, 2008, 09:39:32 AM
When did that happen?  There are a few vassar posters on here.  Maybe they will know something.  I would think given their recent success, it would be an attractive job.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gordonmann on August 15, 2008, 06:37:38 PM
A different team (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3537604) will be playing some ball at Skidmore.  I heard they've been picked third in the LL preseason poll.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 15, 2008, 11:23:19 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on August 15, 2008, 06:37:38 PM
A different team (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3537604) will be playing some ball at Skidmore.  I heard they've been picked third in the LL preseason poll.

And even that's being generous.

I read in a Times-Union blog that Union will be playing an exhibition against Siena.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on October 29, 2008, 09:23:40 PM


any news out of Liberty League posters?

There used to be a lot of Vassar posters here, any news on how the team looks with the new coach?

I have heard that Union will be better this year, and I am sure SLU will be good again.

Any news on Skidmore?  RPI?

Who's the team to beat?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on November 03, 2008, 12:30:53 PM
Clarkson should be good, as long as they stay out of injury trouble, as well as SLU, but I think Hamilton will be the team to beat. Word on campus is they have two fresh that shoot lights out as well as a big man that is really good. This in conjunction with all five starters back make them the team to go after.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on November 04, 2008, 08:34:03 AM
Quote from: shooters on November 03, 2008, 12:30:53 PM
Clarkson should be good, as long as they stay out of injury trouble, as well as SLU, but I think Hamilton will be the team to beat. Word on campus is they have two fresh that shoot lights out as well as a big man that is really good. This in conjunction with all five starters back make them the team to go after.

Isn't Hamilton always the team to beat? They always seem to reload, and consistently make the league playoffs. In fact, when's the last time they didn't? I could be wrong, but I think they've been in the top four every year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Thunder on November 10, 2008, 09:47:13 AM
This was dominence right from the get go. Clarkson got what shot they wanted anytime they wanted it. Clarkson ran some nice, patient offence.

Knights Unveil Banners at Halftime of Exhibition Win Versus Algonquin
November 9, 2008

Clarkson hoisted two banners comemorating last year's run to the NCAA Tournament on Sunday. - Photo by Josh Fogarty

Potsdam, NY - At halftime of the exhibition game against the Algonquin Thunder, Clarkson University President Tony Collins and Athletic Director Steve Yianoukos helped honor the Clarkson University Men's Basketball team's 2007-08 run to the NCAA Tournament with the unveiling of a pair of banners. If Sunday's exhibition is any indication, the Golden Knights appear ready to defend that title as the Green and Gold cruised to a 79-59 win over the Thunder at Alumni Gymnasium.

The Knights took little time jumping in front of the Thunder, reaching a double-digit lead early on thanks to their guard play. Senior Brian Salanger (Syracuse, NY), junior Brandon Linton (Queens, NY) and freshman Felix Llanos (Queens, NY) mixed outside jumpers and quick moves to the basket to send the Knights on a 15-0 run and a 20-plus point advantage midway through the half. Clarkson continued to roll on, and held a 44-19 lead at the break.

Llanos led the way with 10 points on 4-for-6 shooting. Junior Keith Murray (Queens, NY) added in seven points and a pair of blocks, while senior James Evans (Hamburg, NY) had a solid first half with five points, four rebounds, and four assists.

The second half saw both teams' defensive efforts break down as quick shots were lofted at both ends of the court, especially by the Thunder. Algonquin scored 40 second-half points, taking 17 more shots in the second half than in the first with the help of 13 offensive rebounds. The Thunder's roll didn't matter much in the end, however, as Clarkson continued to get to the rim with plenty of lay ups along with timely 3-pointers.

Llanos finished with a game-high 15 points in just 18 minutes, going 6-for-8 from the floor, while Linton closed with 12 points. Ryan Smith (Niagara Falls, NY) contributed 8 points and 7 rebounds, and Murray closed with 9 points.

For the Thunder, Luc Minani recorded 12 points and 7 rebounds and Davidson Sanelus added in six points and 10 rebounds.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on November 11, 2008, 10:50:40 AM
Union played an exhibition this weekend as well, though they didn't fare as well as Clarkson.

Here's the story from the Albany Times Union:

Siena sharp in all phases
Saints solid on offense, defense in exhibition

By PETE IORIZZO, Staff writer
First published in print: Sunday, November 9, 2008
LOUDONVILLE — Siena's first on-campus men's basketball game in 10 years was a throwback all right — not to the bygone era when the Saints called Alumni Recreation Center home, but rather to the end of the 2007-08 season.
   
With its offense video game- like and its defense almost air-tight, Siena routed Union, 99-47, in a preseason exhibition held before 1,622 fans Saturday.

Ten days before they open the season at home against Boise State, the Saints looked every bit ready to defend their Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference championship and chase another NCAA Tournament bid. Against an overmatched Division III opponent, the Saints offered a 40-minute highlight reel.

The game was billed as a nostalgic match between two schools that once played at the same level. Instead, it kindled memories of a season ago, when Siena boasted the MAAC's best offense and became a defensive dynamo down the stretch.

Take this first-half play: On a 3-on-1 break, point guard Ronald Moore dished a no-look pass to Kenny Hasbrouck, who then lobbed the ball above the rim for Edwin Ubiles, who finished the alley-oop. The play was all ad-lib, a perfect sign of Siena synchronizing.

"That's just three veterans playing together, sharing the ball and doing what we do well," Moore said. "It's good for the fans, and shows how unselfish we are. It's three years that we've all been starters. We've got great chemistry."

Siena subs and newcomers – the biggest beneficiaries of scrimmages — starred, too. Clarence Jackson led all scorers with 27 points and hit seven 3-pointers. He, too, finished an alley-oop off, one of several Siena dunks straight out of EA Sports.

"They throw me lobs all the time in practice," Jackson said. "When it's up there, I'm going to go get it."

The regulars, who padded the lead with a 28-2 first-half run, were able to enjoy the second-half show. With Siena ahead by 30-plus points, the upperclassmen sat together on the bench, towels on their heads, smiles on their faces. Even coach Fran McCaffery leaned back in his chair and crossed his legs — he enjoyed the view.

"I think you look at this game and you say well we know what Moore, Ubiles, Hasbrouck and (Alex) Franklin can do," McCaffery said. "Well let's find out what some of these other guys can do, because that's going to really help us find our team's identity."

The Saints played without three big men — Ryan Rossiter (legs), Cory Magee (mild concussion) and Josh Duell (Achilles' tendon). It hardly seemed to matter, as the Saints scored 46 points in the paint to Union's 12, blocked seven shots and forced 33 turnovers.

Still, Union never backed down from its bigger, faster opponent. The Dutchmen fell behind by 27 points midway through the first half but cut the deficit to 16 at one point, prompting McCaffery to call timeout and bark at his team as it left the floor.

Junior forward Drew Desmarais led Union with 12 points, and Burnt Hills product Steve Madej, a senior, added 10. The Dutchmen, who begin the season Nov. 22 against Framingham State, trailed for the game's final 36 minutes.

This was Siena's final rehearsal before the regular season, which begins with as much anticipation and expectation as any in the history of the program.

"We have some work to do with the schedule we have coming up," McCaffery said. "But we're making progress."

And here's the recap from the Daily Gazette:

Jackson sparkles in Siena scrimmage against Union
Sunday, November 9, 2008

Text Size: A | A | A
LOUDONVILLE — Clarence Jackson made seven of 10 three-pointers and scored 27 points in just 18 minutes Saturday night to lead Siena past Union, 99-47, in a preseason basketball scrimmage before 1,620 fans at Alumni Rec reation Center.
Edwin Ubiles and freshman Kyle Downey each scored 19 points and Siena's defense forced 33 turnovers with 24 steals.
Siena broke the game open early with a 15-0 run to take a 26-10 lead. Ubiles had back-to-back breakaway dunks to highlight the spurt.
The Saints were playing without Josh Duell and Ryan Rossiter who sat out with injuries. Preseason MAAC Player of the Year Kenny Hasbrouck scored nine points on 4-for-11 shooting, while juniors Ronald Moore and Alex Franklin combined for seven points. Moore had seven steals, six assists and just one turnover and Franklin tied with Jackson and reserve Steven Priestley for the team-lead with six rebounds.
Downey and classmate Owen Wignot also contributed. Wignot, who started, ended with 11 points and three rebounds in 29 minutes. Downey made eight of 14 shots, grabbed five rebounds and dished out three assists in 25 minutes.
Union was led by Drew Desmarais who scored 12 points and had four rebounds. Steve Madej scored 10 points.


Any other exhibition/scrimmage reports floating around? Just curious how teams are doing in the preseason.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on November 20, 2008, 02:20:27 AM
Clarkson played usual gritty determined defense in victory over Morrisville and it was a good thing because offensively team really struggled. Led by 48-33 with about 8 minutes left and had to survive a desperation 3 at buzzer to escape with a 54-52 win.  Ugly win but a ugly road win is almost always a positive.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 26, 2008, 12:03:13 AM
Big night for the Liberty League.

Clarkson edges Plattsburgh State at Plattsburgh 59-58

St. Lawrence downs Middlebury in Canton 84-71

Hamilton beats Emmanuel College on the road 81-65

Skidmore defeats Southern Vermont on the road 76-71

Union travels to Lehman and comes away with a 71-68 win

Hobart only LL team to lose tonight as the fall to a tough Geneseo team 61-53 at home
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on November 26, 2008, 03:20:29 PM
Quote from: magicman on November 26, 2008, 12:03:13 AM
Big night for the Liberty League.

Clarkson edges Plattsburgh State at Plattsburgh 59-58

St. Lawrence downs Middlebury in Canton 84-71

Hamilton beats Emmanuel College on the road 81-65

Skidmore defeats Southern Vermont on the road 76-71

Union travels to Lehman and comes away with a 71-68 win

Hobart only LL team to lose tonight as the fall to a tough Geneseo team 61-53 at home


Will this be the year the LL starts to beat up on teams from other leagues consistently, as opposed to just beating up on each other?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on December 01, 2008, 11:01:57 AM
Saw Clarkson vs Canton.  Game never really in doubt as Clarkson jumps out to a huge lead right from the start.  Canton is still in transition from 2 year program to d3 4 year program and needs a few years to build.  Clarkson shot the ball well but still has not clicked as well as they have in past defensively.  Rematch with Potsdam will be much better indicator if the team has shown improvement.  Win against Plattsburgh was very entertaining but not particularly pretty.  But ugly wins are this team's trademark.  Some new faces at Clarkson may surprise some Liberty League opponents.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on December 04, 2008, 12:23:31 AM
Clarkson played best half of basketball (for the 1st half) vs Potsdam I have seen them play.  Jumped out to a 21 point lead and led by 14 at the half.  Potsdam looked a little rusty from 10 day layoff but did rally late in the game to within 6 points but Clarkson made free throws down the stretch to perserve the win.  Siskavich for Potsdam appeared to sprain ankle in the first half and was limited to 13 minutes which definitely was a factor.  Bears did not shoot as well as they did in first meeting and Clarkson shot much better. Very interested in upcoming game between SLU & Ithaca - 2 of regions elite teams. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on December 04, 2008, 01:39:36 PM
Quote from: with age came? on December 04, 2008, 12:23:31 AM
Very interested in upcoming game between SLU & Ithaca - 2 of regions elite teams. 

I'm not sure it will be that close. Ithaca knocked off UofR by 9 in Rochester's tourney. And I know Hobart isn't the best measuring stick (1-4, though they lost by just 2 to St. John Fisher and 8 to Geneseo) but the Bombers absolutely killed them (118-81) at IC. Ithaca is averaging 90.2 points per game, while giving up 70.3 ppg. St. Lawrence does have a couple of nice wins under their belt (Middlebury and Plattsburgh's usually tough) -- and are averaging 86.8 ppg, while giving up 75.8 -- but it seems like Ithaca may be the class of the region this year.

I'm sure I'll probably wind up eating crow, it usually happens when I make predictions like this, but I've just gotten a feeling about the Bombers when I've seen their games this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on December 04, 2008, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: with age came? on December 04, 2008, 12:23:31 AM
Clarkson played best half of basketball (for the 1st half) vs Potsdam I have seen them play.  Jumped out to a 21 point lead and led by 14 at the half.  Potsdam looked a little rusty from 10 day layoff but did rally late in the game to within 6 points but Clarkson made free throws down the stretch to perserve the win.  Siskavich for Potsdam appeared to sprain ankle in the first half and was limited to 13 minutes which definitely was a factor.  Bears did not shoot as well as they did in first meeting and Clarkson shot much better. Very interested in upcoming game between SLU & Ithaca - 2 of regions elite teams. 

Age, forgot to mention that my beloved Bears shot horribly, around 30% for the game.  Wish I could say it was Clarkson's D, but Bears had an inordinate number of inside shots and open looks that didn't go down.  Clarkson started out on fire, but shot only 22% in the second half.

Siskavich loss was a major factor, he hit two threes in his limited action, and his size was needed to counter Clarkson's bigs.  Potsdam first year Tom Kelso had a strong game, and will be a factor by February.

My reading of the tea leaves says Ithaca is the team to beat in the region. 

Game is at SLU, which means a long bus ride and (prolly) bad weather.  SLU only went 7 deep at Plattsburgh, but they do have 4 days rest before the game. 

Sharlow is a tough physical PG, who's older & stronger than your usual d3 PG, he will be a good matchup with Burton.  Wopperer can bomb you from deep, and Vonnak is exactly the type of big physical post that can get a body on Bostic.  Should be fun to watch.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on December 05, 2008, 10:01:22 PM
Anyone have any idea if Sullivan from Hamilton is hurt, or something else?  Didn't play against Utica and is not in the box score at halftime against Washington tonight.  He is a major part of their team this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on December 09, 2008, 08:21:25 AM
Saw Clarkson vs Elmira game over the weekend.  Typical ugly Clarkson win,  Holds Eagles to 17 1st half points goes up by 17 in the second half holds on to win by 2.   Refs let alot go (2 near brawls in my opinion).  Elmira will not be rolling over for anyone.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on December 09, 2008, 09:27:57 AM
Also noticed that Clarkson big Pickering was on the bench at the end of the game with a ice pack on his left shoulder.  Hopefully isn't too serious, as Clarkson is a much different team without him.  Knights don't play again until New Year's Eve, so hopefully he has time to heal.

Refs at the game were a North Country crew, but Age is right, need to keep heads cool or bad things happen.

Game was at our place due to Clarkson facility overload, December graduation in the gym, Hockey arena is rented out all winter on weekend for youth hockey games.

Clarkson 6-1, SLU 3-1, Potsdam 5-1, been a long time since all three NC teams this solid at the same time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on December 09, 2008, 10:34:42 AM
met fan, Sullivan has an ankle injury or something he isn't expected back until after the break, but agreed he is huge part of Hamilton team, best recruit of Anderson so far so hopefully he gets well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gobombers15 on December 09, 2008, 10:45:21 AM
Shooters, I sent you message. Let me know via personal message or you can send an email to the address in my profile. Thanks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on December 11, 2008, 02:29:20 AM
Good win for SLU & a tough loss for Potsdam.  Time to give SLU some love in the polls.  Victories over Middlebury & Potsdam both of whom got votes (or vote in Potsdam's case) in the top 25 poll.  Only loss is to ranked Urisius.  Word is, but not definite, that Pickering (Clarkson big) should be OK when play resumes. Glad to see that Siskavich is back playing.  I like him alot, has range, soft touch, can go inside or outside and gets his boards. A key cog for the Bears.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: GrassyKnoll on December 11, 2008, 03:45:46 PM
I don't think St. Lawrence's has enough to handle the buzzsaw that is Ithaca. I've seen them play and I just don't know if they're freshman class is mentally tough enough to get ready for the upperclassmen Ithaca can bring and the 'big-game' atmosphere it's likely to have. It looks like they beat them last year at Ithaca in OT, but Burton didn't play. HUGE DIFFERENCE. He's the best player around in region and will have a decided advantage over anyone St. Lawrence tries to throw at him. That being said, I think the game will be very entertaining as both teams can fill it up, and I think Ithaca's assistant used to work for Downs at St. Lawrence which is always fun drama as a subplot. I'm hoping to make it up for the game, but my prediction is IC by 9 with free throws separating a 2 possession game late.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gobombers15 on December 18, 2008, 09:09:16 PM
With Age Came, Shooters--check your messages.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on December 24, 2008, 01:40:43 AM
Grassy you were pretty accurate as Ithaca held on at the end thanks to Burton, but it got down to a point with less than 3 minutes left. See gb15 post. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on December 30, 2008, 01:41:32 PM
What's the deal with Hobart hoops?

Seems like the Statesmen have made great strides in virtually all other men's sports including Soccer (ranked #4 in D3 this season, sweet sixteen), Football (#23 in D3, 6th NCAA berth in 8 seasons), Sailing (perennial national contender) and Lacrosse (winning season last year in D1), etc but basketball is still a <.500 team each year (save 2004 when they went 16-11).

Any insights on why the hoops program seems to languish while others prosper?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 04, 2009, 09:15:01 AM
St. Lawrence defeats Heidelberg 90-79 to win the consolation game of the Buffalo St. Holiday Inn Invitational. Saints never headed as they control game from the outset. Up by 10 at the half, they stretch lead to 22 before settling for the 11 pt. win. Tom Wopperer with 18, Terry Parham with 17,  Bela Vonnak with 14 lead SLU.  Josh Sharlow and Richard Williams each added 11 pts.

Saints have to be disappointed despite winning as they should have been in the Championship game against Buff ST. Saints let one slip away against Widener on Friday night. SLU up by 7, 90-83 allows Widener to go on a 14-3 run in final 2:40 and falls 97-93. Saints with 5 turnovers in last 2 mins.

Hamilton scorched by Middlebury 73-49. Panthers jump out to early lead and never trailed. Up by 13 at the break,  Middlebury, puts the Continentals away with a 15-6 run early in the 2nd half and coasts to the win.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 05, 2009, 11:10:18 PM
Clarkson rallies from 18 down against UR and gets within 1 at 66-65 with 15 secs left only to come up short 71-67. UR goes up 68-65 on 2 Mike Chmielowiec FT's and Knights Brandon Litton's layup cuts it to 1 again. Clarkson fouls and UR makes 1 of 2 with 6 secs. left. Clarkson with 1 last chance turns the ball over and UR makes 2 more FT's to end it. Tough loss for the Knights but shows they can hang with some of the better teams in the East.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 07, 2009, 12:32:56 AM
Good win for Clarkson in 2 ot @ Cortland considering very draining and most likely emotional loss to U of R the night before. Like gb15 said on the east poll board - Clarkson scheduled some tough non-league games with Potsdam, Plattsburgh, U of R, Cortland & Oswego.  Saw St Law on 1/3 and they looked a little flat in victory over Heidelberg.  Hoescher was in street clothes nursing what looked like a leg injury? Anyone know the scoop? Think the team was a little down not finishing off Widener the night before.  True leader for slu in the game was Sharlow.  He made things happen!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on January 07, 2009, 07:25:07 PM
Things seem to be falling apart for Hamilton right now.  Middlebury is pretty good, but they shouldn't lose by that much, and the score from the Conn College game is atrocious. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on January 07, 2009, 07:33:43 PM
Quote from: with age came? on January 07, 2009, 12:32:56 AM
Good win for Clarkson in 2 ot @ Cortland considering very draining and most likely emotional loss to U of R the night before. Like gb15 said on the east poll board - Clarkson scheduled some tough non-league games with Potsdam, Plattsburgh, U of R, Cortland & Oswego.  Saw St Law on 1/3 and they looked a little flat in victory over Heidelberg.  Hoescher was in street clothes nursing what looked like a leg injury? Anyone know the scoop? Think the team was a little down not finishing off Widener the night before.  True leader for slu in the game was Sharlow.  He made things happen!

I think Clarkson is for real, especially if Pickering gets healthy and in shape, Stockwell is a very sharp coach, they play hard D and control the tempo, and they hit the boards real hard.  Hoescher has been out all season, wouldn't be surprised to see him take a medical RS.  Which Sharlow?  Josh the PG, or Garret the PF.  Both have been factors and will be back. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on January 08, 2009, 04:00:27 PM

With the conference about to tip-off, what have we learned so far?

I think SLU is still the team to beat...And with Clarkson off to the start they have had, I think the road to the NCAA might go through the North Country.

I think it shakes out this way

SLU-better talent than the rest
Hamilton-maybe rep carries them, not sure how good they really are yet
Clarkson-physical and tough to beat both Clarkson & SLU back to back
Union-always crafty and seem to have rebounded from down year
Skidmore-young and getting better
RPI-Simmons can't do it all and they never seem to have good guards
Hobart-thought they would be better
Vassar-new coach and lost a lot

what does everyone else think?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 09, 2009, 12:27:44 AM
Bear- Sharlow the PG is the true engine (at least from what I saw)for SLU.  It will be very interesting in the league this year and I think UCAA hoops has it down pretty well,  I am not getting what is going on at Hamilton,  I do not think they lost too much to graduation but they do not seem to be playing very well right now.  Think Hobart is missing Grazioli (who I personally thought was the best player in the league last year). Union seems to have righted the ship from last years awful start.  Skidmore is playing better but I think Hobart will sneek ahead of them & RPI who seems to need someone to complement Simmons. Vassar lost a lot to graduation and may be in the worst position this year. SLU is not quite as talented as last year if Hoescher is out for the year and with the loss of 2 very good seniors. Clarkson virtually intact and with conflicting styles between run & gun SLU & scrappy defensive minded Clarkson it leads to some interesting match ups. The league season will be upon us very soon- I can't wait!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on January 13, 2009, 10:04:08 PM
Hamilton is all over the place this season.  Would not have expected them to beat Williams after some of their recent play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 13, 2009, 10:25:56 PM
magicman over on the east fan poll board said they (Hamilton) have had quite a few injuries.  Maybe they are finally healthy and ready to roll now that we are coming into league play.  Certainly they have had 2 good wins in the past few days-with a run thumping against Hobart and an impressive road win at Williams. Looking forward to this weekends matchups particularly Clarkson at Union which I see as two potential playoff teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on January 14, 2009, 10:31:44 AM
Hamilton is young, and their schedule was absolutely insane up to this point. I believe playing the tough schedule so far has seasoned the team and although their W/L ratio is not good I think they are picking up at the right time. Don't be surprised to see a good run out of Hamilton with everyone back and healthy. Two huge road wins as of late. The liberty league seems to have a lot of depth this year so should be exciting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 14, 2009, 11:07:16 PM
Quote from: met_fan on January 07, 2009, 07:25:07 PM
Things seem to be falling apart for Hamilton right now. 

Can't feel sorry for the Conts with them in 1st in the LL and 7-4 overall.

Especially as Hobart has lost 4 straight to start out the new year and pretty much guaranteed another losing hoops season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 15, 2009, 02:35:47 PM
We got a couple leagues under our belt, but it's hard to get a good read on things thus far.

Here's what's coming up this weekend, which will start to shed a little light on the league, although the second time through always seems to change things up again.

Friday
Vassar (5-6, 0-0 LL) at Hamilton (7-4, 1-0 LL)         
Clarkson (9-2, 0-0) at Union (8-3, 1-1)               
RPI (6-5, 0-0) at Hobart (3-9, 0-1)               
St. Lawrence (7-3, 0-0) at Skidmore   (5-7, 0-1)

Saturday      
RPI at Hamilton               
Clarkson at Skidmore               
Vassar at Hobart               
St. Lawrence at Union

I can never predict scores, and wouldn't even try to, but here are my predictions for outcomes this week.

Friday
Hamilton over Vassar
Clarkson over Union
RPI over Hobart
St. Lawrence over Skidmore

Saturday
Hamilton over RPI
Clarkson over Skidmore
Vassar over Hobart
Union over St. Lawrence (although this one is a real toss-up)

I think Hamilton and Clarkson will roll for both games this weekend, while Union, St. Lawrence, RPI and Vassar split, leaving Skidmore and Hobart coming up short twice.

It seems like Hamilton and Clarkson are the class of the league, followed by St. Lawrence/Union. Skidmore seems to have improved since last season, but still in rebuilding mode, while Vassar and Hobart have tumbled from last year. RPI is middle of the pack, as they have been for the last few years.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 15, 2009, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: TGP on January 14, 2009, 11:07:16 PM
Quote from: met_fan on January 07, 2009, 07:25:07 PM
Things seem to be falling apart for Hamilton right now. 

Can't feel sorry for the Conts with them in 1st in the LL and 7-4 overall.

Especially as Hobart has lost 4 straight to start out the new year and pretty much guaranteed another losing hoops season.

Oh, and I don't feel too badly for Hamilton either. They may not have a 1-2 loss record like normal, but things are clearly not falling apart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 15, 2009, 07:57:45 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on January 15, 2009, 02:35:47 PM

It seems like Hamilton and Clarkson are the class of the league, followed by St. Lawrence/Union. Skidmore seems to have improved since last season, but still in rebuilding mode, while Vassar and Hobart have tumbled from last year. RPI is middle of the pack, as they have been for the last few years.

Thoughts?

I think SLU, Clarkson, and Hamilton will come in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in the league, not necessarily in that order, however I would give the edge to the Saints to end up with the top seed in the LL tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on January 15, 2009, 08:24:25 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on January 15, 2009, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: TGP on January 14, 2009, 11:07:16 PM
Quote from: met_fan on January 07, 2009, 07:25:07 PM
Things seem to be falling apart for Hamilton right now. 

Can't feel sorry for the Conts with them in 1st in the LL and 7-4 overall.

Especially as Hobart has lost 4 straight to start out the new year and pretty much guaranteed another losing hoops season.

Oh, and I don't feel too badly for Hamilton either. They may not have a 1-2 loss record like normal, but things are clearly not falling apart.

In fairness, they were 5-4 and coming off 4 losses in 5 games when I posted that.  Granted, 3 of those games were to very good teams, but they scored 50 against Conn College, which made it just look like things were going very badly.  It's possible they've turned it around now, and the injuries I'm sure played a role, but I'll be more convinced if they register a couple comfortable wins this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 15, 2009, 11:40:23 PM
Think I would agree with Magic a little more than Buck.  SLU still favorite, then Hamilton, Clarkson & Union.  Think that SLU will beat Union this weekend if Union only uses 6 guys like they did in their win versus Skidmore.  SLU runs and runs and if you are playing 40 minutes like several Dutchmen did, it will be tough.  Most intriguing match up to me is Union versus Clarkson and I plan on seeing that one in person. Also think that Hobart may surprise at home but that game will be close- Hobart guards versus Simmons.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: lileyes on January 16, 2009, 09:39:37 AM
Union is 1-0 in the league, not 1-1.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 16, 2009, 12:56:31 PM
Quote from: lileyes on January 16, 2009, 09:39:37 AM
Union is 1-0 in the league, not 1-1.

Yeah, I screwed up when I was writing that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 16, 2009, 11:48:15 PM
St. Lawrence hits the century mark downing Skidmore 102-84. SLU grabs the lead at the 12 min mark of the 1st period and is never headed. Up by 10 at the break 54-44 the Saints stretch their lead to 18 halfway thru the 2nd half and coast from there. Bela Vonnak led 5 SLU players in double figures with 24 pts and 8 reb. Terry Parham had 20 pts and 6 boards, Richard Williams added 15 pts and 11 boards and Josh Sharlow chipped in with 10 pts, 7reb, & 4 asst. Garrett Sharlow also had 10 pts. Skidmore got 17 pts from Jeff Altimar, 14 pts from Jon Douglas and 13 pts from Terron Victoria. SLU had a 49-30 rebounding edge and shot 52.9% from the field, 50% from 3 pt land(10x20) and 83% from the free throw line (20x24). The Saints move to 8-3 overall 1-0 in conference play. Skidmore drops to 5-8 (0-2).  SLU is at Union tomorrow night who moved to 2-0 in conference play by downing Clarkson tonight 71-62. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 17, 2009, 02:56:52 AM
RPI tops Hobart 71-68.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 17, 2009, 03:44:14 AM

4 unbeaten teams in the Conference, will be down to 2 after Sat. afternoon matchups.

SLU at Union        Saints deeper than the Dutchmen, will take this one 91-80

Clarkson at Skidmore     Both teams coming off losses, will go down to the wire Knights over Skidmore 69-65.

RPI at Hamilton      Both teams on 3 game win streak. Hamilton stays hot 73-66.  

Vassar at Hobart   Both teams struggling this year. Vassar with the better record, Hobart playing a tougher schedule. Brewers fall to the Statesmen as Hobart claims this one 74-70.    
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3lifer on January 17, 2009, 08:25:58 AM
I will be interested to see the outcome of the SLU - Union game being that this is a matchup of two different styles Union has done a much better job as of late controlling tempo executing on the offensive end and forcing teams to work defensively and SLU can't put up some points they have all season. This game will probably be decided by tempo being that they are generally on opposite ends of the spectrum.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 17, 2009, 09:32:34 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 17, 2009, 03:44:14 AM

4 unbeaten teams in the Conference, will be down to 2 after Sat. afternoon matchups.

SLU at Union        Saints deeper than the Dutchmen, will take this one 91-80

Clarkson at Skidmore     Both teams coming off losses, will go down to the wire Knights over Skidmore 69-65.

RPI at Hamilton      Both teams on 3 game win streak. Hamilton stays hot 73-66.  

Vassar at Hobart   Both teams struggling this year. Vassar with the better record, Hobart playing a tougher schedule. Brewers fall to the Statesmen as Hobart claims this one 74-70.    

OK, I got 3 of my 4 Friday predictions right, the only wrong one being the Union win over Clarkson.

I'm sticking by my predictions for today -- Hamilton over RPI, Clarkson over Skidmore (which I don't think will be as close as 69-65), Vassar over Hobart and Union over St. Lawrence.

The one I feel least confident about is Union-St. Lawrence, simply because St. Lawrence can score so much and Union doesn't seem to have as much firepower. Maybe if Union played a four corners, like Hartwick used to stay close with Ithaca last night, they can combat the high-powered offense. Of course, Union tends to play more of a halfcourt game anyhow, so that might be enough. It should be interesting to see the outcome here.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 17, 2009, 06:55:54 PM
St. Lawrence nips Union 80-77 on the road to move to 9-3 overall(2-0 conference). Union falls to 9-4 (2-1)

Hamilton tops RPI 67-60 Hamilton 9-4 overall (3-0) Red Hawks drop to 7-6(1-1)

Hobart over Vassar 68-53.  Statesmen go to 4-10(1-2) Vassar falls to 5-8(0-2)

Clarkson over Skidmore 73-60 Golden Knights go to 10-3 (1-1) Thoroughbreds slip to 5-8(0-2)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 17, 2009, 07:30:11 PM
Clarkson down early 17-4 comes back to within 1 at the break down 34-33. Tied at 46 with 11 minutes left the Knights go on a 23-6 run over the next 8 mins. to put the game away. Clarkson places 5 guys in double figures, led by B. Linton with 14 pts, 9 assists, and 5 steals. Keith Murray had 13 pts 7 rebs, Elson Pickering with 13 pts,  George Koduah 10 pts and Felix Llanos also added 10 pts. Skidmore was paced by Gerard O'Shea with 16 pts and Melvis Langyintuo with 11.

Big game for the Knights on Tuesday as they make the short trip down the road to Canton to take on SLU. "with age came" just might have to make the trip up to see that game. ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 17, 2009, 07:55:49 PM
SLU led by 2 freshmen Garrett Sharlow and Terry Parham who combined for 47 pts in their win over Union. Sharlow had 24 pts in just 25 mins. on 7x12 fg, 5x9 3's, 5x5 ft and added 7 rebounds as well. Parham had 23 pts, 14 in the 1st half on 10x19 fg including 2 3's Tom Wopperer also had double figureswith 12 pts. Drew Desmarais led Union with a game high 26 pts. Joey Lokitis with 13, Matt Covucci had 12, and Steve Madej chipped in with 11 as the Dutchmen placed 4 men in double figures.
It doesn't get any easier for Union as they travel to Hamilton for their next game on Jan 23rd.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 18, 2009, 10:23:42 AM
Was anyone at the SLU-Union game Saturday? Watched the Live Stats and looked like Union made some poor decisions at the end (ie. turnovers) that cost them the game. Also it seemed like they went a stretch at the end without being able to score, and Desmarais missed the front end of a one-and-one with like 30 seconds left with Union down 2. It's hard to tell how much of it was St. Lawrence playing better or Union playing worse.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 19, 2009, 02:44:12 AM
Sorry Buck dn see SLU vs Union- was at the Clarkson-Union game and they are two evenly matched teams.   Union does not quite have the depth of Clarkson but Goldstein (I think that is his name) hit some big shots down the stretch while Clarkson went cold.  Demaris is big and uses his body well, Madjei is a good shooter who I think got bailed by the ref's a couple of times.  Will also say this: saw Clarson- Skidmore game and Skidmore has the best freshman recruiting class of any liberty league team I have seen so far this year (Clarkson, SLU, Union & Skimore).  There was plently of time when 3 or more freshman were on the court for Skidmore and they acquited themselves quite well. By the end of the season and going forward they (Skidmore) will be very dangerous.  In my humble opinion they could be a playoff team and potential champion in a year or 2.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 19, 2009, 10:25:02 AM
Quote from: with age came? on January 19, 2009, 02:44:12 AM
Sorry Buck dn see SLU vs Union- was at the Clarkson-Union game and they are two evenly matched teams.   Union does not quite have the depth of Clarkson but Goldstein (I think that is his name) hit some big shots down the stretch while Clarkson went cold.  Demaris is big and uses his body well, Madjei is a good shooter who I think got bailed by the ref's a couple of times.  Will also say this: saw Clarson- Skidmore game and Skidmore has the best freshman recruiting class of any liberty league team I have seen so far this year (Clarkson, SLU, Union & Skimore).  There was plently of time when 3 or more freshman were on the court for Skidmore and they acquited themselves quite well. By the end of the season and going forward they (Skidmore) will be very dangerous.  In my humble opinion they could be a playoff team and potential champion in a year or 2.

What about SLU's freshmen Parham and Garrett Sharlow? They lit up Union (23 points for Parham in 30 minutes of play, 24 points and 7 rebounds for Sharlow in 25 minutes) and rank among the team's leaders. Parham is only sixth in scoring with a 11.6 points per game average, but Sharlow is fourth in scoring with 12.1 points per game and leads the team in rebounding with 8.1 per game.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 19, 2009, 11:02:12 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on January 19, 2009, 10:25:02 AM
Quote from: with age came? on January 19, 2009, 02:44:12 AM
Sorry Buck dn see SLU vs Union- was at the Clarkson-Union game and they are two evenly matched teams.   Union does not quite have the depth of Clarkson but Goldstein (I think that is his name) hit some big shots down the stretch while Clarkson went cold.  Demaris is big and uses his body well, Madjei is a good shooter who I think got bailed by the ref's a couple of times.  Will also say this: saw Clarson- Skidmore game and Skidmore has the best freshman recruiting class of any liberty league team I have seen so far this year (Clarkson, SLU, Union & Skimore).  There was plently of time when 3 or more freshman were on the court for Skidmore and they acquited themselves quite well. By the end of the season and going forward they (Skidmore) will be very dangerous.  In my humble opinion they could be a playoff team and potential champion in a year or 2.

What about SLU's freshmen Parham and Garrett Sharlow? They lit up Union (23 points for Parham in 30 minutes of play, 24 points and 7 rebounds for Sharlow in 25 minutes) and rank among the team's leaders. Parham is only sixth in scoring with a 11.6 points per game average, but Sharlow is fourth in scoring with 12.1 points per game and leads the team in rebounding with 8.1 per game.

My Point is: the entire class.  In all fairness it is probably (definitely) easier to crack a Skidmore lineup than a St Lawrnece lineup.  St Lawrence has 2-3 freshman contributing but really enjoying the advantage of Josh Sharlow who I feel is the true engine of the team.  He plays great defense, runs the show delivers the ball and provides Parham and Garrett Sharlow with looks.  I would suspect Parham who does run the floor very well in particular benefits from the transition baskets.  Temgoua will improve as he learns the game, but the rest of the class either has not had the chance or has not deserved the chance to show much.  Wheareas the Skidmore freshman are providing the the spark.  Gerard O'Shea is among the quickest I have seen (a poor man's Burton), Langyintuo & Oloa are learning the game and contributing. Kyle Clark has a mean streak and toughness that I like.  Terron Victoria has a senior body as a freshman and will get better as he adjusts to the speed of the college game and Brian Lowry is a very competent back up point guard to O'Shea who has a good handle. Hence Skidmore has 6 contributing freshman while St Lawrence has 2-3 who depend on upperclassman more than the Skidmore freshman.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 20, 2009, 10:27:16 AM
Quote from: with age came? on January 19, 2009, 11:02:12 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on January 19, 2009, 10:25:02 AM
Quote from: with age came? on January 19, 2009, 02:44:12 AM
Sorry Buck dn see SLU vs Union- was at the Clarkson-Union game and they are two evenly matched teams.   Union does not quite have the depth of Clarkson but Goldstein (I think that is his name) hit some big shots down the stretch while Clarkson went cold.  Demaris is big and uses his body well, Madjei is a good shooter who I think got bailed by the ref's a couple of times.  Will also say this: saw Clarson- Skidmore game and Skidmore has the best freshman recruiting class of any liberty league team I have seen so far this year (Clarkson, SLU, Union & Skimore).  There was plently of time when 3 or more freshman were on the court for Skidmore and they acquited themselves quite well. By the end of the season and going forward they (Skidmore) will be very dangerous.  In my humble opinion they could be a playoff team and potential champion in a year or 2.

What about SLU's freshmen Parham and Garrett Sharlow? They lit up Union (23 points for Parham in 30 minutes of play, 24 points and 7 rebounds for Sharlow in 25 minutes) and rank among the team's leaders. Parham is only sixth in scoring with a 11.6 points per game average, but Sharlow is fourth in scoring with 12.1 points per game and leads the team in rebounding with 8.1 per game.

My Point is: the entire class.  In all fairness it is probably (definitely) easier to crack a Skidmore lineup than a St Lawrnece lineup.  St Lawrence has 2-3 freshman contributing but really enjoying the advantage of Josh Sharlow who I feel is the true engine of the team.  He plays great defense, runs the show delivers the ball and provides Parham and Garrett Sharlow with looks.  I would suspect Parham who does run the floor very well in particular benefits from the transition baskets.  Temgoua will improve as he learns the game, but the rest of the class either has not had the chance or has not deserved the chance to show much.  Wheareas the Skidmore freshman are providing the the spark.  Gerard O'Shea is among the quickest I have seen (a poor man's Burton), Langyintuo & Oloa are learning the game and contributing. Kyle Clark has a mean streak and toughness that I like.  Terron Victoria has a senior body as a freshman and will get better as he adjusts to the speed of the college game and Brian Lowry is a very competent back up point guard to O'Shea who has a good handle. Hence Skidmore has 6 contributing freshman while St Lawrence has 2-3 who depend on upperclassman more than the Skidmore freshman.

OK, I can see your point about the class overall.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 20, 2009, 11:39:02 PM
St. Lawrence waits 11 months for some payback and crushes Clarkson 93-62. Avenging their loss to the Golden Knights in last Feb. LL tournament the Saints grabbed a double digit lead 4 1/2 mins. in and never looked back. Doubling up Clarkson at the break 52-26, SLU stretched their advantage to 43 at the 11:42 mark and emptied the bench. Saints shot 58% from the field 32x55 and 53% 9x17 from 3 pt land. Josh Sharlow, Garrett Sharlow, and Terry Parham all scored 15 pts and Tom Wopperer added 13 for SLU. Elson Pickering and George Koduah led the Knights with 9 pts each.

With the win the Saints are now tied atop the League with Hamilton at 3-0. Clarkson falls to 1-2

Next up for the Saints is RPI and Vassar on the road this weekend  while Clarkson flip-flops those same 2 teams on Fri. and Sat.


RPI travels to Poughkeepsie and  comes away with a 69-59 win over Vassar College. Big closing 1st half 18-4 run put the Red Hawks up 44-28 at the break. The Brewers got it down to 6 once after a 10-0 run of their own to open the 2nd period but another 12-2 RPI run gave them their biggest lead of the night at 56-40. Vassar could get it no closer than 7 the rest of the way. RPI now 2-1 in LL and Vassar falls to 0-3.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 23, 2009, 10:12:22 PM
St. Lawrence travels to RPI and gets upset 77-72.

Hamilton takes care of visiting Union 72-56.

Clarkson loses on the road to Vassar 75-71.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: organizingmom on January 23, 2009, 10:49:14 PM
Hobart squeaked by Skidmore 61-60 and is now 2-2 in the league and plays Union tomorrow
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on January 23, 2009, 11:25:40 PM
went to rpi tonight to catch SLU and came away impressed by RPI...Looking at their scores they might be a sleeper.  They are tough and they have more than Simmons.  If they play defense like that they are going to be pretty good.  They really slowed down SLU. 

Nobody has really said anything about RPI on the board...Are they going to hold up?

Surprised Clarkson went down at Vassar.  Thought Union would do better at Hamilton, should be some good games tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 24, 2009, 08:52:27 PM
RPI fresh off their upset of SLU on Friday night loses to visiting Clarkson 80-79 in double overtime. Clarkson's Rey Jefferson fouled with 3 seconds left in the game and the score tied at 79 misses the 1st ft but makes the 2nd . RPI turns it over to end it. Elson Pickering has his biggest output of the season(I think) with 26 pts along with 10 rebounds to lead the Golden Knights. Brandon Linton with 19 pts, 7 assists, 2 blks and 3 steals. Jefferson chipped in with 12 pts.  RPI placed 4 guys in double figures led by Sam Simmons with 23 pts, 7 boards, 6 blks, and 4 steals. DJ Blakemore had 18 pts, followed by Tim Rupp and Mike Brion with 11 each.

Double OT seemed to be the order of the day as Union ekes out a 110-108 win over Hobart needing 2 extra sessions to do so. Hobart has a 15-4 run in the final 2 mins of regulation to force OT led by sophomore Rob Estep who scored 10 straight pts during that run and then nailed a 3 with 6 seconds to total 13 of those 15 pts. He finished with a game and career high 39 pts. Hobart also set a school record for 3's with 18 of them. Hobart had the lead in the 1st OT but Union's Joey Lokitis hit's a 3 with 14 secs left to force the 2nd OT. The Statesmen's luck ran out though as Union goes on an 11-2 run to grab control and despite another 10-3 run by Hobart never reliquished the lead. The Dutchmen had 5 guys in double figures led by Drew Desmarais with 27 pts and 13 rebounds. Matt Covucci was next with 21 pts and 10 boards. Lokitis had 21, Drew Goldstein had 20, and Nick Ciresi chipped in with 12. In addition to Estep's 39, Hobart also had 4 other players in double figures. Tim LLewellyn had a double double with 17 pts and 10 assists, and  Mark Bruce had 15 pts. Adam Salzmann and Greg Stern both scored 11.

Hamilton tops Skidmore 81-61 to remain undefeated in conference play and in sole possession of 1st place. Hamilton opened up with a 13-2 lead and never trailed. Cont's had 4 guys in double figs led by Harlee Wood with 14 pts. Patrick Sullivan and Jay Simpson each had 12 and Ephraim McDowell chipped in with 11. Brian Lowry paced Skidmore with 11 pts. Hamilton's 6th  straight win moves them to 11-4 overall, 5-0 in the LL.

St. Lawrence rebounds from their 1st league loss with a 78-72 win over Vassar. Tied at halftime at 43 the Saints grabbed an 8 pt lead but the Brewers hung tough and eventually grabbed the lead at 62-60 with 8:30 left to play. SLU regained the lead for good 68-67 with 5 mins left and hung on for the victory. Saints were led by Tom Wopperer with 27 pts on 13x18 shooting, along with 8 rebounds. Bela Vonnak and Garrett Sharlow were also in double figures with 12 pts each. Matt Nunn scored 20 pts to lead Vassar, followed by Joe Davis with 14 and Brian Butterworth with 11.

Big matchup for 1st place next Friday at St. Lawrence as Hamilton comes to town.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: lileyes on January 24, 2009, 09:09:12 PM
Union played without leading scorer Steve Madej today and he only played 8 mins vs. Hamilton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gobombers15 on January 24, 2009, 10:03:26 PM
Looks like there is a lot of parity in the LL. I could see six teams winning the LL Tourney. Hamilton definitely seems the favorite at this point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 28, 2009, 01:45:47 AM
No doubt about the parity. Clarkson starts season with five road league games in a row and suffers embarrassing loss to Vassar (worst of season in my opinion) and comes back with what may be their best win against a surging RPI that had beaten a very talented St Lawrence team the night before. Those long bus rides must just have drained the north country invaders because I would have reversed the 2 results of Clarkson very easily. Truly think regular season will come down to Hamilton vs St Lawrence with slight edge to St Lawrence.  Union, RPI, Clarkson & maybe even Hobart also will battle for the remaining 2 playoff spots. Skidmore a little too young but watch out in a couple of years- they have the best freshman class I have seen as a whole.  Vassar lost a lot to graduation and will get some wins but I do not think enough to climb into playoff picture.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 30, 2009, 11:28:33 PM
St. Lawrence downs Hamilton 80-67 to claim a share of 1st place in the conference.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 30, 2009, 11:48:55 PM
SLU grabs the lead at 12:47 of the 1st half and never looks back. Up by as much as 12 they settle for a 40-32 advantage at the break. Hamilton hangs in there and cuts it to 48-44 at the 14:44 mark but the Saints go on an 11-0 run to stretch the lead to 15 at 59-44 with 11:38 remaining to play. Open it up to 19 at 74-55 and coast from there. Saints place 4 in double figures led by T. Wopperer with 14, R. Williams 13 pts, 8 reb, G. Sharlow 12 pts, and R. Temgoua with 11. Continentals paced by J. Ciriello with 14, J. Simpson with 13, and D. Harris with 12.

Saints host Hobart tomorrow afternoon at 4 PM while Hamilton visits Clarkson at 4 PM as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 30, 2009, 11:59:56 PM
Clarkson loses at home to Hobart 72-63, as the Statesmen outscore the Knights 27-7 over the final 7 minutes of the game.

G. Koduah scored a career-high 18 points, shooting 8-for-11 from the floor. E. Pickering added 14 points and 7 rebounds, and K. Murray finished with 10 points and 7 rebounds.

Hobart was led by M. Pebole who had a game-high 23 points, going 7-for-10 from the field and 9-for-11 from the free throw line. R.  Estep added 18.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 31, 2009, 12:05:32 AM
Vassar travels to Union and comes away with the upset win 87-80.

Skidmore breaks in the win column at RPI's expense shooting down the visiting Red Hawks in OT 63-62.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: organizingmom on January 31, 2009, 09:02:11 PM
Congrats to the All-Academic Team!
http://www.libertyleaguesports.org/academic/mbasketball
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 31, 2009, 10:55:40 PM
Hamilton takes down host Clarkson 61-44. Continentals grab early lead and never headed. Continentals next at RPI on Feb 6th. Knights host SLU on Tues Feb 3rd hoping to avenge 31 pt pasting 2 weeks ago.

Visiting RPI defeats Union 61-50 to grab sole possession of 3rd place. Dutchmen to host Skidmore on Tues.

St. Lawrence beats visiting Hobart 88-73 as 5 Saints reach double figures. Remains tied with Hamilton for 1st place with 6-1 mark. Hobart next at Vassar on the 6th.

Skidmore at home wins 2nd straight downing Vassar 64-45.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 02, 2009, 05:57:24 PM
An update about a couple games this weekend — both at Union. Point Guard Drew Goldstein went down with a broken nose early in the second half of the game against Vassar, which definitely made an impact in both games. Not sure if both would have been won, but firmly believe there would have been a different outcome in the Vassar game if there hadn't been a backup in there, especially during the OT.

RPI's Sam Simmons was a big part of their win Saturday, he was hard to stop inside.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 03, 2009, 11:25:14 PM
St. Lawrence invades Clarkson and comes away with an 82-75 win. SLU gains lead  4 mins into game and maintains it throughout the 1st half. Knights within 4, 36-32 with 2:45 to go and Saints close out the half with 7-2 spurt to go into the break up by 9 at 43-34. Knights fall behind by 13 early in the 2nd but hang tough and finally come back and tie it up at 62 on a jumper by Brad Linton with 8:44 remaining. Teams trade 3 pointers before Saints go up by 5, 75-70 on 3 pt play by Richard Williams with 2:45 left. Foul and technical foul on Knights Elson Pickering at 2:34 mark and that pretty much sealed it for the Saints, who extend lead to 78-70. Knights had no answer for Tom Wopperer tonight as he goes 10x15 fg, 4x4 3's, 7x7 ft, for 31 pts. Also in double figures is Williams with 12 pts and 7 boards, Ralph Temgoua with 12 pts and 6 boards, and Bela Vonnak with good all around play has 8 pts, 10 rebounds, 5 assists and 2 steals. Knights place 4 players in double figs led by Brian Salanger with 14, and Linton with 11. Pickering and Jon Hood added 10 each.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 06, 2009, 02:17:24 PM
Any thoughts on the weekend? Here are mine:

Tonight
Hamilton   (12-5 overall, 6-1 LL) over RPI (10-8, 4-3 LL)               
Clarkson (11-8, 2-6 LL) over Skidmore (7-12, 2-6 LL)            
Vassar (7-11, 2-5 LL) over Hobart (6-12, 3-4 LL)
St. Lawrence (14-4, 7-1 LL) over Union (11-7, 4-4 LL)         

Saturday
Hamilton over Vassar
Clarkson over Union
RPI over Hobart
St. Lawrence over Skidmore

That would give Hamilton, St. Lawrence and Clarkson 2-0 slates, Vassar and RPI 1-1 marks, and Skidmore, Union and Hobart 0-2 weekends.

If that happens, conference standings would look like this:
St. Lawrence 9-1
Hamilton 8-1
RPI 5-4
Union 4-6
Clarkson 4-6
Vassar 3-6
Hobart 3-6
Skidmore 2-8

If that all played out it would continue to give credence to my belief that Hamilton and St. Lawrence are head and shoulders above the others. I know prior to conference play (or maybe after the first weekend) I thought Clarkson was at the top, but clearly they are not.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 06, 2009, 11:27:48 PM
St. Lawrence places 7 players in double figures as they defeat visiting Union 99-80. Saints up 46-43 at the break. Still up 48-47 at the 18 min mark of the 2nd SLU goes on a 22-6 run to put the game away.

Hamilton travels to RPI and comes away with a 73-68 victory. Down by 6 at the half  the Continentals grab the lead for good, 56-55 with 9:41 left to play and hold off the Red Hawks.

Clarkson downs visiting Skidmore  67-58 as 4 Knights reach double figures. Knights outscore the Thoroughbreds 16-7 over game's final 4 minutes.

Visiting Hobart stops Vassar 51-48 tonight in defensive battle. Brewers up 48-43 with 3:08 to play never score another point as the Statesmen close out the game on an 8-0 run.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 07, 2009, 08:58:41 PM
St. Lawrence defeats visiting Skidmore 83-68. Game of runs as Saints open game with 21-0 run and forge 49-30 halftime lead. Skidmore comes back with a 27-11 run of their own to close within 4 at 61-57 with 10:23 left to play, but Saints turn it on again with 17-0 run to go up 78-57 with 4:30 to go. SLU only has 5 players in double figures tonight led by 3 freshmen. Ralph Temgoua and Garrett Sharlow each had 17 pts, and Terry Parham had 15. The 3 rookies also combined for 19 rebounds. Tom Wopperer had 12 pts and Bela Vonnak added 10 pts and 9 boards. Skidmore was led by Gerard O'Shea with 11 pts.

Big road trip for the Saints next weekend as they travel to Hobart on Friday night and then over to  Hamilton Sat. afternoon which will probably determine the regular season championship and home court for the LL playoffs. Must win for the Continentals to have any chance at the top seed.

Hamilton travels to Vassar and trips up the host Brewers 74-60. Continentals up 38-19 at the break, place 3 in double figures. Patrick Sullivan leads all scorers with 17 pts, followed by Jay Simpson with 16 and Dayne Harris with 11. Brewers were paced by Matt Nunn with 14 Brian Butterworth with 12 and Joe Davis with 10.
Hamilton has Clarkson coming to town on Friday night and can't afford to be looking ahead to that SLU match up on Sat. as the Golden Knights looking for revenge from earlier beating in Potsdam.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 07, 2009, 09:49:54 PM
Clarkson takes care of visiting Union 79-61. Knights open game with 7-0 spurt and are never headed as they take a 37-30 lead at the break. Union get to within 1 at 44-43 with 12:39 left to play but a 10-0 Clarkson run slams the door. Knights stretch lead to 73-58 and coast. George Koduah topped the Knights with 17 pts and 10 rebounds. Brandon Linton had 16 pts, 7 assists, 4 rebounds ,and 3 blocks.
Keith Murray, Jonathan Hood, and Brian Salanger all have 13 points and Murray added 9 boards. Union's Joey Lokitis was the game's high scorer with 21 pts including 5 treys and Drew Desmarais added 17 for the Dutchman.

Knights move into a tie for the 5th spot with Union at 4-6 in league play and they travel to Hamilton on Fri. and Hobart on Sat.

Union also on the road next weekend traveling 1st to RPI Fri. night and then Vassar on Sat. afternoon
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 07, 2009, 10:31:37 PM
RPI solidifies their hold on 3rd place in the conference with a 65-61 win over visiting Hobart. Red Hawks grab early lead and maintain it through the end of the 1st period leading 31-26 at the halfway point. Hobart comes out of the break with a 13-4 spurt to lead for the 1st time at 34-33  and stretch it to 39-35 early on in the 2nd. RPI goes on a 16-2 run of its' own to go up 51-41 with 9:44 left to play.
Still up 10, 57-47 with just over 5 mins left the Red Hawks allow the Statesmen to close to within 1 before Sam Simmons nails a huge 3 pointer with 40 secs left to give the Red Hawks a 61-57 lead and 4 made foul shots account for the final margin.  Simmons led RPI with 22 pts on 9x14 fgs 2x2 3's and 2x2 ft's. Mike Brion added 11 and Tim Rupp 10. For the Statesmen Robb Estep had 22 pts on 7x15 fgs 2x3 3's and 6x8 ft's. Matt Pebole added 20 pts and 5 boards. Hobart falls out of 3rd place tie with RPI into 4th place, a half game up on Clarkson and Union.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 09, 2009, 01:50:09 AM
Do or die time this weekend for the north country pair.  St Lawrence needs to win to solidify top seed and home court advantage and Clarkson must win at Hobart to keep playoff hopes alive.  Playoff picture is pretty murky right now but will probably clear up after the weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Spanky Slazenger on February 10, 2009, 11:35:23 AM
I see that the idiots that work for this site have finally given SLU some votes...  They deserve to be in the top 25 and you guys all know it.  I find it hard to believe they wont make a deep run in the NCAA's.  But then again what do I know....

Firts time post

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 10, 2009, 01:33:51 PM
Quote from: Spanky Slazenger on February 10, 2009, 11:35:23 AM
I see that the idiots that work for this site have finally given SLU some votes...  They deserve to be in the top 25 and you guys all know it.  I find it hard to believe they wont make a deep run in the NCAA's.  But then again what do I know....

Firts time post



Spanky, they certainly seem to be tops in the LL, but Hamilton also has been cruising through their league games. A question I have about St. Law is their close games (moreso in the first part of the league schedule), but I suppose that shows they have character, being able to win the close one.

Also, I think they will have to win the conference tourney to make the big tourney. I don't think the LL can get an at-large bid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Spanky Slazenger on February 10, 2009, 02:33:42 PM
Valid points Bucky...  I do think they will win the conference tourney this year for a couple of reason...

1 - Lots of experience on the floor

2 - They havent had a group like this since the days of Keith Sullivan and we all know what he used to do to RPI,  The only team to beat slu this year.  Im just saying

3 - Three standout Freshmen in Sharlow, Parham, and Ralphy from france... Gives them energy off the bench.

4 -  A 30 year old point guard... I mean how many teams have a guy that graduated in the 90's.... Not many


Truth be told they will only be held back by the lack of a consistent 8th man, no offense to Ben Arraya but I think we will all agree with Andy Hoercher healthy this is a top 20 team without question.


Anyway I guess i will talk with you clowns later because that was the best post I've read on here since 2002....


Spanky
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 11, 2009, 12:08:25 PM
Listen, SLU will get beat this weekend and I agree only one team will move foward and that will be the conference winner. SLU is NOT one of the top 25 teams in country, the LL is weak this year- really weak and SLU is benefiting from this clearly- and they are not blowing teams out which should have every SLU fan alarmed. We will see what happens this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on February 12, 2009, 07:32:57 AM
Quote from: Spanky Slazenger on February 11, 2009, 01:45:18 PM
Shooter, 

Are you Dennis Hopper from Hoosiers????  Because that would explain teh trash you are spewing on this wonderful site...  You are clearly a hamilton homer and anybody that knows anything about SLU Hamilton history knows that in the past decade SLU hasnt had that much trouble with the Queers from Clinton as I refer to them as....  I am also guessing you have no idea that SLU beat Middlebury who i think is 20-3 or some crap and if not for a load shooting by Ithaca in the first half they would have taking them down,  AND THEY HAVE ONE LOSE!!!!!!!!!!

With all that said they probably wont get an at large bid because the people that do the voting dont know dick...  I will give you credit on one point and that is we will see what happens this weekend... G thanks captain obvious....

TATA for now ball breath

Spank

What a wonderful addition to Posting Up
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on February 12, 2009, 12:22:57 PM
This site for a long time has been kind of rocking its posters to sleep....well at least we finally have some color on this site  ;D  The good news is when Spanky grows up he can attend SLU or whatever college he wants to and cheer his team on in person. Perhaps they will have a chess club, or better yet a marching band, perhaps Spanky will get a full scholarship for his tremendous flute playing, whatever the case his parents will be proud. Captain obvious has one more note- regardless of this weekend the only thing that really matters is conference tourny and I think we all can agree that Hamilton and SLU will be there.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 12, 2009, 10:31:20 PM
Hey Guys,

Just received word that Spanky has been booted off and as you can see his crude posts have been deleted. The challenge he issued to do something about it has been met.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: manofgor24 on February 12, 2009, 11:54:17 PM
I have to agree with good ole' spank.  SLU is the real deal this year.  I mean Ithaca lost to a SLU and Plattsburgh grad this summer in the cuse' summer league and they are ranked 8 in the country.  They have to have one of the most consistant frosh classes in the country...stats don't lie.  But hey, what do I know........I didn't graduate from Hamilton.......hence, not a queer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: manofgor24 on February 13, 2009, 12:31:27 PM
I also didnt realize everyone on here is a baby... I mean if you cant take a little sick and twisted humor why are you alive... I for one would like to see spank back on here but there isnt enough gerber bottles in the world to satisfy you infants...  what a joke!!!!!!!!!!!  Look in the mirror... Really LOOK!!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 13, 2009, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 12, 2009, 10:31:20 PM
Hey Guys,

Just received word that Spanky has been booted off and as you can see his crude posts have been deleted. The challenge he issued to do something about it has been met.   

Quote from: manofgor24 on February 13, 2009, 12:31:27 PM
I also didnt realize everyone on here is a baby... I mean if you cant take a little sick and twisted humor why are you alive... I for one would like to see spank back on here but there isnt enough gerber bottles in the world to satisfy you infants...  what a joke!!!!!!!!!!!  Look in the mirror... Really LOOK!!!!!

Don't think its Spanky, but both his and this guy's e-mail addresses are from Salisbury University. I also didn't get to see Spanky's last posting, but I'm glad he got booted. I'm no baby, I don't mind a little sick and twisted humor, but I guess I'd rather have basketball talk than poorly conceived sexual insults spewed across the board.

If I could give karma, I'd give it to whoever dropped the guy from the boards.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 13, 2009, 09:01:49 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 13, 2009, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 12, 2009, 10:31:20 PM
Hey Guys,

Just received word that Spanky has been booted off and as you can see his crude posts have been deleted. The challenge he issued to do something about it has been met.   

Quote from: manofgor24 on February 13, 2009, 12:31:27 PM
I also didnt realize everyone on here is a baby... I mean if you cant take a little sick and twisted humor why are you alive... I for one would like to see spank back on here but there isnt enough gerber bottles in the world to satisfy you infants...  what a joke!!!!!!!!!!!  Look in the mirror... Really LOOK!!!!!

Don't think its Spanky, but both his and this guy's e-mail addresses are from Salisbury University. I also didn't get to see Spanky's last posting, but I'm glad he got booted. I'm no baby, I don't mind a little sick and twisted humor, but I guess I'd rather have basketball talk than poorly conceived sexual insults spewed across the board.

If I could give karma, I'd give it to whoever dropped the guy from the boards.


buck,

I agree with you and that's why last night I simply reported him to the moderator. Within minutes they deleted 3 of his 5 posts, the ones that contained offensive comments and booted him. He apparently isn't familiar with the give and take that's accepted on the D3 posting boards and probably is used to the vulgarity that takes place on other websites. I also spotted the Salisbury e-mail addresses for him and this other guy. Probably his roommate. My advice would be to just ignore their posts in the future and they'll go away.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 13, 2009, 10:19:15 PM
St. Lawrence visits Hobart and comes away with a hard fought 70-65 win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 13, 2009, 10:30:33 PM
Hamilton drops visiting Clarkson 76-62.

Vasser squeaks one out against visiting Skidmore 74-73.

Union visits RPI and defeats the Red Hawks 68-64.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2009, 12:14:01 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 13, 2009, 09:01:49 PM

buck,

I agree with you and that's why last night I simply reported him to the moderator. Within minutes they deleted 3 of his 5 posts, the ones that contained offensive comments and booted him. He apparently isn't familiar with the give and take that's accepted on the D3 posting boards and probably is used to the vulgarity that takes place on other websites. I also spotted the Salisbury e-mail addresses for him and this other guy. Probably his roommate. My advice would be to just ignore their posts in the future and they'll go away.   

Yeah. What I couldn't believe is that someone would post that crap on the message boards, knowing what they do for a living. That's the kind of stuff that can get a lower-level employee fired. Ask the Empire 8 football board about that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 14, 2009, 07:53:31 PM
Big win for St. Lawrence at Hamilton today 75-62. Saints pretty much wrapped up the top seed and home court in the conference tournament with the victory. They host Vassar, then RPI next weekend and would have to lose both games to give the Continentals any chance at the regular season title. Hamilton would also have to win their final 3 games. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2009, 12:23:28 AM
Hobart tops visiting Clarkson 69-66. Statesmen come from 15 down in the 2nd half to deal the Golden Knights a serious blow to their playoff hopes.  Hobart's Tim Llewellyn sets a school record with 11 steals. Interesting, Hobart news release says Llewellyn broke Mike Deane's record of 8 steals set against Alfred on Feb.11th 1970. Only Mike Deane I know of that played ball in NY in 1970 played for Potsdam State, not Hobart. But maybe there were 2 Mike Deanes.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2009, 01:12:47 AM
Vassar hosts Union and crushes the Dutchmen 82-55.

RPI defeats visiting Skidmore 69-63.

Looking more and more like the the LL playoffs will shape up like this:

#1 St Lawrence vs #4 (Winner of Hobart/Union game on Feb. 20th)

#2 Hamilton vs #3 RPI

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 15, 2009, 03:20:56 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 15, 2009, 12:23:28 AM
Hobart tops visiting Clarkson 69-66. Statesmen come from 15 down in the 2nd half to deal the Golden Knights a serious blow to their playoff hopes.  Hobart's Tim Llewellyn sets a school record with 11 steals. Interesting, Hobart news release says Llewellyn broke Mike Deane's record of 8 steals set against Alfred on Feb.11th 1970. Only Mike Deane I know of that played ball in NY in 1970 played for Potsdam State, not Hobart. But maybe there were 2 Mike Deanes.   

One and the same.  Deane played for Hobart '69-70, started every game as a freshman point guard.  Averaged 10 assists/game as a freshman.  Deane transferred after his freshman year to Potsdam, sat out '70-71, and then played 71-74 at Potsdam.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2009, 04:56:47 PM
Quote from: thebear on February 15, 2009, 03:20:56 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 15, 2009, 12:23:28 AM
Hobart tops visiting Clarkson 69-66. Statesmen come from 15 down in the 2nd half to deal the Golden Knights a serious blow to their playoff hopes.  Hobart's Tim Llewellyn sets a school record with 11 steals. Interesting, Hobart news release says Llewellyn broke Mike Deane's record of 8 steals set against Alfred on Feb.11th 1970. Only Mike Deane I know of that played ball in NY in 1970 played for Potsdam State, not Hobart. But maybe there were 2 Mike Deanes.   

One and the same.  Deane played for Hobart '69-70, started every game as a freshman point guard.  Averaged 10 assists/game as a freshman.  Deane transferred after his freshman year to Potsdam, sat out '70-71, and then played 71-74 at Potsdam.

Thanks for the history lesson Bear, I never knew Mike went to Hobart before playing at Potsdam.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 20, 2009, 11:04:03 PM
Big upset in Canton tonight as Vassar College drops St Lawrence 76-65. Saints blow chance to clinch regular season title and fall into a tie with Hamilton who beat Skidmore tonight 64-62. Both teams are 11-2 with SLU holding the head to head tiebreaker over the Continentals. Saints host RPI and Hamilton at Union for regular season finale.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 21, 2009, 02:35:54 AM
Union moves into 4th place as they defeat visiting Hobart 84-73.

Clarkson beats visiting RPI 69-57.

Looks like Union claims the 4th seed with a win against Hamilton. If Union loses and Hobart wins against Skidmore that would create a 3 way tie between Union, Hobart and the winner of the Clarkson-Vassar game.  That would activate the league's multiple step tiebreaker to determine the 4th seed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: organizingmom on February 21, 2009, 09:58:37 AM
Where can I find out how the 3-way tiebreaker works?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 21, 2009, 07:33:35 PM
Quote from: organizingmom on February 21, 2009, 09:58:37 AM
Where can I find out how the 3-way tiebreaker works?

Good question. I tried to find that out myself last night and not a single school website or the LL website had that info. Yet Clarkson, Hobart, Vassar and Union all claimed to be still alive for the 4th seed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 21, 2009, 08:02:34 PM
St Lawrence 82   RPI 75    Saints clinch Regular season title and host playoffs next Friday and Saturday.

Hamilton 56  Union 47     Hamilton #2 seed plays RPI next Friday. Union eliminated.

Skidmore 72  Hobart 59   Hobart eliminated

Clarkson 63   Vassar 59   Golden Knights arise from the dead and claim the final playoff spot and a chance to defend their Tournament title. They take on SLU on Friday.  Clarkson wins 4th seed on 4th overall tiebreaker

Here's a partial write-up from Vassar News release:

POTSDAM, NY — Both the Vassar College and Clarkson University men's basketball teams needed a couple things to go their way in order for either team to clinch a Liberty League playoff spot. But regardless of other results in the league, what remained clear was that Saturday's matchup in the final regular season game of the year was a must-win for both teams. It was Clarkson who picked up the playoff-spot clinching victory, edging Vassar 63-59 at Alumni Gymnasium.

Although Vassar got what it needed in other results – a Hamilton College win over Union College – the Brewers' loss dropped them out of the playoff race with a 5-9 league record, finishing the season 10-15 overall. The Golden Knights moved to 15-10 overall and 6-8 in the Liberty League. Clarkson will face top-seeded St. Lawrence for the second year in a row in the conference tournament's opener at 8:00 pm next Friday in Canton, NY. Despite a tie for fourth place, the Knights got the nod thanks to a sweep of third-seeded Rensselaer, the fourth overall tie-breaker.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 22, 2009, 01:51:15 AM
with age,

Congrats to Clarkson for hanging in there. Don't know if you remember but this is what I said to you back on Feb 1st on the SUNYAC board in response to your post to me:

"I didn't think your Knights would be 2-5 after the 1st half of the league schedule. But as bad as that is you're still only a game out of the 4th and final playoff spot. Needless to say must win situations when you play Union and Hobart again.  With 5 of your final 7 games at home you need to go 4-1 at Alumni Gym and 1-1 on the road. Hobart has 5 road games left  and Union 4 so they both have a real possibility of going 3-4 in the 2nd round robin and both ending up at 6-8 or worse. I think 7-7 will cop the 4th playoff spot. I'll be rooting for you."

So, Union goes 3-4 and Hobart goes 2-5. Clarkson does go 4-1 at home losing only to SLU and the only reason you didn't go 5-2 in the second half of the schedule was that gift the Knights gave Hobart last week. If you win that game you would have grabbed the 3rd seed away from RPI. Would rather have seen the Knights face Hamilton in the semis than SLU. But you're alive and that's all that matters.

Also thebear's Bears ended up as good as I thought they could with a 6 seed.

Alas only the Cardinals end their season but it took a good Brockport 4 game win streak to do us in. Next year we've got all 5 starters back so we'll be looking for some revenge. Young team, hung with everybody, just had trouble finishing games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 22, 2009, 11:37:05 AM
I'm thinking St. Lawrence has to be the frontrunner (I know they are the top seed, so they should be by default, I suppose) to win the LL tourney. I don't think the winner will come out of ther RPI-Hamilton game, and I think St. Lawrence will be able to get by Clarkson.

Other thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 22, 2009, 12:29:28 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 22, 2009, 11:37:05 AM
I'm thinking St. Lawrence has to be the frontrunner (I know they are the top seed, so they should be by default, I suppose) to win the LL tourney. I don't think the winner will come out of ther RPI-Hamilton game, and I think St. Lawrence will be able to get by Clarkson.

Other thoughts?

Didn't Clarkson win the tournament last year with a sub-500 record?  Did anyone else make the NCAA's?  I certainly think SLU wins but,hey...you never know.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on February 22, 2009, 01:43:52 PM
I wouldn't rule out RPI or Hamilton...

RPI played Hamilton tough in two games, and beat SLU once and played them pretty tough from the looks of it this weekend.  Simmons may be the the POY and RPI plays solid defense

Hamilton nearly took the LL regular season title.

I think the winner of that game has a really good chance to win the title

Exciting ending to the regular season with everybody but Skidmore having a chance to get into the championships.

THoughts for awards...
Player of the Year-    Simmons-RPI-they are not a play-off team without him
Rookie of the Year-    tough call, Sharlow from SLU or Sullivan from Hamilton
Coach of the Year-     also tough, could make case for Downs, Tobin or Griffin from RPI
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 23, 2009, 01:41:46 AM
Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on February 22, 2009, 12:29:28 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 22, 2009, 11:37:05 AM
I'm thinking St. Lawrence has to be the frontrunner (I know they are the top seed, so they should be by default, I suppose) to win the LL tourney. I don't think the winner will come out of ther RPI-Hamilton game, and I think St. Lawrence will be able to get by Clarkson.

Other thoughts?

Didn't Clarkson win the tournament last year with a sub-500 record?  Did anyone else make the NCAA's?  I certainly think SLU wins but,hey...you never know.

Ethelred,

Yes, Clarkson won the tournament last year, beating SLU, then Hamilton at SLU's gym. They entered the NCAA tournament with an 11-16 record and lost to Kings College in a 1st round game at Kings. No one else from the LL got in. Only Naz got in from the E8 and only Plattsburgh St. got in from the SUNYAC. Rochester got an at large bid as well, leaving only 4 teams from the East region in the NCAA tourney. Stevens finished the regular season at 20-6 but lost in the E8 semifinals and was relegated to the ECAC's. Hamilton and SLU both ended up 17-9 and stayed home. Brockport St. was in good shape to get an at large bid going into the SUNYAC tournament  but lost badly to Oswego in the semis and also ended up in the ECAC's. Had Stevens or Port made it to the conference final, one or both of them would have probably gotten a bid. They both ended up winning the ECAC's.

We may get more than 4 teams in to the NCAA's this year but could end up with only 3. See my post on the East Region Fan Poll concerning the possibilities.

buck,
Hard to pick against SLU. They have the deepest bench and lots of options. Not many teams have 6 guys in double figures as the Saints do(and a 7th guy averaging 9.3 ppg) and they also have the league's biggest rebounding margin. Playing on their home court and the memory of last year's loss to Clarkson in the semifinals should be all the motivation they need to get it done this year. But as we've seen, anything can happen and they will have to beat both Clarkson and probably Hamilton for a 3rd time to come away with the automatic bid. Not always easy to do that to decent teams. If their shots aren't falling like the Vassar game on Friday night, where they shot 35% and only 5 of 30 from 3 point range,(yikes!) and they don't do a better job defensively, they could wind up on the short end.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 23, 2009, 02:50:06 AM
Hey Magic,  You are quite the prognosticator!!   I truly thought that the Knights were dead after the loss to Hobart but the moon aligned with Mars and Saturn crossed paths with Uranus and they snuck in.  The Knights did play defense like old times this weekend and it showed in their wins. Lower scores and wins.  Held Vassar to 20 in the first half and they (Vassar) came out of the gate on fire.  Also did a good first half job on Simmons from RPI and really pretty much had game in control. This in part was because of foul trouble on Simmon's. Vassar was much better than I expected considering how much they lost to graduation. SLU loss to them proved how quirky the college game is. Josh Sharlow and Woepper really had substandard games and they lose at home.  That being said I believe SLU is definitely the favorite.  RPI is the Simmon's show from what I saw.  Clarkson can be dangerous if play scrappy d and take care of the ball.  Hamilton is talented and have some good wins over Williams for instance. All in all an entertaining weekend when you have 4 teams vying for one spot on the last day of league play!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 23, 2009, 03:15:28 AM
I see you're burning the midnight oil as well. I'm working on my East region poll and my Top 25 poll before I hit the sack. Your Knights are going to really have to buckle down on the defensive end next Friday. Bet Coach Stockwell is looking at the game tape of last Friday's Vassar-SLU game pretty intently.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 23, 2009, 01:22:01 PM
Magic U burned later than me :o...   SLU losing to Vasar was an oddity but that happens when J Sharlow, Woepper, & Parham shoot 2 for 22 from 3 point land and Vassar shoots 57% from beyond the arc.  Sure coach Stockwell will be burning the midnight oil too to see if there is a way to see if the Knights can slow down the Saints.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on February 25, 2009, 02:29:25 PM
Beyond question, I have to agree with UCAAHOOPS' post regarding SLU's Coach Downs as LL Coach of the Year.  Regardless of this weekend's results, Coach Downs & his staff definitely deserve COY honors. Their team centric philosophy has led to a very impressive 6 players averaging in double digits with #7 barely off that mark.  The #1 Saints have had LL Players of the Week 17 times (more than any other team).  They played a tougher pre-league schedule than most LL teams.  They average 16 assists per game, lead the league in offensive & defensive rebounding and seem to be guided by the adage that no one person is bigger than the program-not a player or coach.  Admirable.

POY honors go to SLU's student-athlete Tom Wopperer-6 times LL Guard of the Week & 2nd in League scoring with 16.5.  Plays under control with limited fouls.  Certainly a consummate team player who has been significant in leading his team to a 19-5 record, 1st place and home court advantage for the upcoming playoffs. Also, a member of the 2008-09 LL All-Academic Team.

Have to concur with UCAA again, ROY honors to Hamilton's Patrick Sullivan.  Major contributor as a freshman.  Averages 12 pts/26min.  LL Rookie of the Week 5 times.

Like a phoenix rising maybe with age's Knights will persevere again this year.  Should be interesting!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 25, 2009, 05:11:28 PM
Quote from: FLYZ5 on February 25, 2009, 02:29:25 PM
Have to concur with UCAA again, ROY honors to Hamilton's Patrick Sullivan.  Major contributor as a freshman.  Averages 12 pts/26min.  LL Rookie of the Week 5 times.


While Sullivan is a good candidate for Rookie of the Year, I'd like to also throw Matt Pebole and Garrett Sharlow's names into the mix.

Here are their stats (ranked in order of how I see them stacking up):

Garrett Sharlow (St. Lawrence) 11.6 ppg (3rd on team), .468 fg, .383 3fg, 6.6 rpg (2nd on team) — 3 ROW awards

Patrick Sullivan (Hamilton) 12.3 ppg (2nd on team), .529 fg%, .417 3fg%, 5.1 rpg (2nd on team) — 4 ROW awards

Matt Pebole (Hobart) 10.9 ppg (2nd on team), .498 fg, .378 3fg, 4.9 rpg (2nd on team) — 3 ROW awards

I think I'd be more inclined to go with Sharlow with this, due to the fact he's the third leading scorer on a team that features its top six in double figures in scoring. Plus, he's put up his stats while playing in 24 games (starting only one) at an average of 20.9 minutes a game. Sullivan, meanwhile, is one of three Hamilton players in double figures, starting 20 of 20 games played at an average of 26.4 minutes a game.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on February 25, 2009, 06:23:58 PM
Buck....I really can't disagree with you.  Sharlow is definitely a great choice for ROY.  He was my 2nd pick and it was VERY close.
Also, forgot to mention that Coach Downs' Saints have consistently been ranked 2nd in the NCAA regional rankings right behind Ithaca.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 25, 2009, 06:33:16 PM
Quote from: FLYZ5 on February 25, 2009, 06:23:58 PM
Buck....I really can't disagree with you.  Sharlow is definitely a great choice for ROY.  He was my 2nd pick and it was VERY close.
Also, forgot to mention that Coach Downs' Saints have consistently been ranked 2nd in the NCAA regional rankings right behind Ithaca.

That's one of the reasons why I gave him the edge. He's doing it on a team that is at the top of the region, just behind the 24-1 Ithaca Bombers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 25, 2009, 07:03:02 PM
Quote from: FLYZ5 on February 25, 2009, 02:29:25 PM
POY honors go to SLU's student-athlete Tom Wopperer-6 times LL Guard of the Week & 2nd in League scoring with 16.5.  Plays under control with limited fouls.  Certainly a consummate team player who has been significant in leading his team to a 19-5 record, 1st place and home court advantage for the upcoming playoffs. Also, a member of the 2008-09 LL All-Academic Team.

While I don't think there should be any question about Downs getting Coach of the Year, I'm going to throw a couple other names into the conversation for Player of the Year.

Below are the players I think should be discussed for POY. The statistics are from conference play only, with their league ranking in parentheses. I also noted how many player of the week awards they have won this season.

Tom Wopperer (StL)
15.4 ppg (3), 2.57 apg (10), 6 Guard of the Week awards

Drew Desmarais (Union)
19.5 ppg (1), 6.9 rpg (6), 60.9 FG% (1), 2.62 apg (9), 5 Forward of the Week awards

Sam Simmons (RPI)
19 ppg (2), 7.8 rpg (3), 60 FG% (2), 6 Forward of the Week awards

My pick would be Simmons, followed by Wopperer and Desmarais.

Not only did Simmons win 6 Forward of the Week awards, but he also ranked second in points per game and field goal percentage and was third in rebounds per game. In addition, only one other RPI player earned a player of the week award (Tim Rupp was Guard of the Week once). RPI finished third in the league and I don't think that happens if Simmons isn't around.

While I think Desmarais's league play would put him ahead of Wopperer, the fact that St. Lawrence is first in the league gives Wopperer the edge. Union didn't make the playoffs, moving Desmarais down my list to third.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 25, 2009, 09:35:09 PM
Good discussion.  I would agree that Downs has the inside track on COY.   Personally I am partial to Simmons for POY.  The man is the entire show at RPI whereas Wopperer has a lot more help with the Sharlow's, Parham  Williams etc.   I suspect like last year a great multitude of St Law players will get honored but won't get POY.  I was very wrong last year on ROY I thought Estep was better than teamate Llewellyn so my eye for talent might be suspect, but I found Sullivan to be the best rookie, Sharlow a close second. Another POY canidate has to be Harlee Wood at Hamilton but again he would be 3rd or fourth in my opinion.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on February 26, 2009, 09:36:35 AM
Ironically, it is exactly what with age and buck have said that makes me believe that Wopperer should be POY.
If you base your decision solely on statistics, then the choice would be mindless fodder with the obvious choice not always the BEST choice.  There are many intangibles that should be considered and it certainly depends on what criteria you value in a POY.  In my humble opinion, it is MUCH harder  to obtain impressive stats on a team with a deep bench and 7 players averaging in double figures than on a team where only 2 players average in double digits.
If you are the focal point, the go to guy or the "entire show", then it stands to reason, is inevitable & almost guaranteed that you will probably end up with pretty good stats by season's end.  NOT to take anything away from Mr. Simmons-he is a GREAT player (albeit foul trouble) on a mediocre team.  Conversely, Mr. Wopperer shouldn't be penalized for being a great player on a great team with no one superstar.
As captain of his team, Wopperer has been a dedicated leader, always involving the rest of his teammates.  He is only part of the show, not the "entire show", which, logically, would make it harder to excel.
I guess I am a DIII basketball purist and may come to this discussion from a different vantage point.  Honestly, I am a bit wary of a program with a "one man show" and have to question how that happens, especially at the DIII level (although, fortunately, you don't see it very often).
BOTH players are definitely deserving....the edge goes to SLU's Tom Wopperer.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 26, 2009, 10:48:27 AM
Quote from: FLYZ5 on February 26, 2009, 09:36:35 AM
I guess I am a DIII basketball purist and may come to this discussion from a different vantage point.  Honestly, I am a bit wary of a program with a "one man show" and have to question how that happens, especially at the DIII level (although, fortunately, you don't see it very often).

You think Wopperer, I think Simmons -- I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I was curious about this statement, though, and not quite sure why you'd be "wary of a program with a one man show." I think it probably happens more often than people realize, but it's generally with teams that aren't very good, not ones that are in the conference playoffs. I also think it probably happens more at the DIII level than DII or DI.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 26, 2009, 10:57:10 AM
Flyz5- Truly an interesting point about "not being the only man".  I guess I always envisioned a POY as being someone who a team had to have to do damage (ie: Kobe or LeBron) rather than an excellent player on a well rounded team (ie: Prince on Detriot).  I think we would all agree that without Simmons RPI is not in the playoffs.  He gets double and triple teamed sometimes and he still puts up great numbers. At St Lawrence even if you took Wopperer out of the equation I think that they are DEFINITELY a playoff team and still a contender.  So I guess one has to look at the fact that since St Law is so deep and Wopperer puts up very good numbers as a plus but also the fact that because of their depth you can not concentrate on him soley because the rest of the team will kill you.  It is a 2 edged sword.  All that being said I am sure sure that Wopperer is right where he wants to be (a definite 1st team Allstar) on the best team. And possibly POY too! See Buck has posted oo in response.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 26, 2009, 11:13:54 AM
The LL Awards have been handed out; here's the info from the LL site.

2009 Liberty League Player of the Year -- Sam Simmons, Rensselaer Senior Forward
Simmons was the Liberty League leader in both scoring and rebounding, and also led his team in blocks, steals, minutes per game, field goal percentage, offensive rebounds and defensive rebounds. He was the team's leading scorer in 15 games and leading rebounder in 14. He had 10 or more points 21 times this season and 20 or more 13 times. He was a six-time selection as Liberty League Forward of the Week.


2009 Liberty League Rookie of the Year -- Patrick Sullivan, Hamilton Forward
A four-time Liberty League Rookie of the Week selection, Sullivan ranked fourth in the league in field goal percentage and 11th in overall scoring. He ranked second for Hamilton in both scoring and rebounding and was the top scorer for the Continentals six times, including four of the last six games of the season.


2009 Liberty League Coaching Staff of the Year -- Chris Downs   St. Lawrence
Downs guided the St. Lawrence to its second straight Liberty League regular season title with a 19-5 overall record and a 12-2 conference mark. The Saints led the league in scoring offense, scoring margin, and rebounding margin. He is assisted by Sean Kelly and Mark Bickelhaupt.


2009 Liberty League First Team
F Drew Desmarais -- Union (SR) *
G Josh Sharlow -- St. Lawrence (JR)
F Sam Simmons -- Rensselaer (SR) *
F Harlee Wood -- Hamilton (SR)
G Tom Wopperer -- St. Lawrence (SR) *
* Unanimous Selection

2009 Liberty League Second Team
G Rob Estep -- Hobart (SO)
G Brandon Linton -- Clarkson (JR)
F Matt Nunn -- Vassar (SR)
G Jay Simpson -- Hamilton (JR)
F Richard Williams -- St. Lawrence (SR)

Honorable Mention
George Koduah F (Clarkson), Joey Lokitis G (Union), Steve Madej G (Union), Patrick Sullivan F (Hamilton)

I can agree with the choices (I had advocated for Simmons for POY), but I did think Garrett Sharlow would have merited a HM selection.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on February 26, 2009, 11:52:58 AM
Thanks very much for the info buck.  You and with age were spot on with your POY pick!
Congrats to all the worthy student athletes.  VERY happy to see Coach Downs, Sean Kelly & Mark Bickelhaupt receive COY honors.  Well deserved!!!
Looking forward to an exciting  (& COLD) weekend of basketball.   Can't wait!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 26, 2009, 01:06:16 PM
Quote from: FLYZ5 on February 26, 2009, 11:52:58 AM
You and with age were spot on with your POY pick!


Well, you got the ROY correct. I think the fact that Simmons, Wopperer and Desmarais were all unanimous first team picks means that we were on the right track with all of our picks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 27, 2009, 08:12:22 PM
No. 3 RPI beats No. 2 Hamilton, 64-55 tonight. Does this hurt Hamilton's at large bid at all?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 27, 2009, 11:20:42 PM
St Lawrence defeats Clarkson 88-64 . Pool C bid for Hamilton might have gotten a little shaky with a semifinal loss instead of loss in the championship. Pool C hopefuls don't want to see RPI winning tomorrow afternoon against SLU.

Richard Williams leads the Saints with 25 pts and 9 rebounds.Tom Wopperer has 19 pts 4 assists and 3 steals, while Bela Vonnak added 14 pts and 7 boards.
Brian Salanger with 14 pts and Ryan Smith with 11 topped Clarkson
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2009, 11:38:44 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 27, 2009, 08:12:22 PM
Does this hurt Hamilton's at large bid at all?

Yes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 28, 2009, 11:50:24 AM
While RPI was able to hold off Hamilton, I don't think they have enough firepower to top St. Lawrence today. And, Hamilton's loss in the semifinals means the LL will likely only get one team into the NCAA tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 01, 2009, 01:10:54 AM
Buck after yesterday's butt kicking of Clarkson by ST Law I would have agreed with you.  But as HOT as the Larries were yesterday they turned 5 for 30 COLD AS ICE from 3 point land today. Think they maybe got complacent just like Hamilton did last year when Clarkson knocked off St Law in the first round thinking that the tougher opponent ( Hamilton ) had gotten knocked off.  Yesterday they were absolutely fabulous and today they have to hope the tournament committee thinks they are deserving. I think they are and will be rewarded with an at large. Time will tell.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 01, 2009, 01:46:13 AM
I posted this on the East Region fan Poll board as well.

It looks like the East Region will have 7 bids to the NCAA tournament and are as follows:

1   Brockport St.  Pool A  SUNYAC automatic bid
2   RPI   Pool A Liberty League  automatic bid
3   Medaille  Pool A   Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference  automatic bid
4   RIT/Nazareth winner Pool A  Empire 8 automatic bid
5   SUNYIT/Wells winner  Pool A  North Eastern Athletic Conference automatic bid
6   Ithaca  Pool C  at large bid
7   St Lawrence  Pool C  at large bid

I think Hamilton is going to lose out because of all the upsets today to teams that would have been Pool A bids but have now been relegated to Pool C.( Like Ithaca)
After all the teams that should have been Pool A bids take the Pool C bids instead
that doesn't leave enough Pool C bids left for the East Region to get 3 Pool C's. There are simply too many good teams on the bubble. With 8 regions and only 18 Pool C at large bids there is no way that the East will get 3 of them. St Lawrence could even possibly get knocked out of the picture. The 1 good thing the Saints have going for them is that they will remain #2 in the final Regional rankings that come out later today(Sunday) but will not be seen by the public. No way Hamilton can leap over the Saints as they lost in the LL semifinals and the Saints own 2 head to head wins over them.  So for sure 6 teams but I think the Saints get in to give us the 7 bids. At least it's better than the 4 we had last year.
   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 01, 2009, 05:11:27 AM
It is now several hours after I posted my list of NCAA bids and D3Hoops has just come out with their NCAA projections. Here's the link:

http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/09/projected.htm

As I expected the 7 East Region teams I listed are in and Hamilton gets left on the table. D3Hoops projects a 4 team pod with host Ithaca as a #1 seed facing the winner of the SUNYIT/Wells game. The other game will pit Amherst against Brandeis.

St. Lawrence will host another 4 team pod and face Brockport St. UM-Dartmouth will take on the NAZ/RIT winner.(Which they show as RIT. Pat must have a crystal ball)

RPI is an 8 seed and will travel to #1 seed Richard Stockton.

Medaille is also a #8 seed and will travel to the Cleveland Ohio region and face the #1 seed John Carroll.

The coveted 1st round bye has went to Middlebury.

Remember these are only D3Hoops projections and not the actual selections but they will be very close to the NCAA's picks. However, the placement of the teams could differ considerably.

Middlebury losing to Amherst could have an impact on the bye, with it  possibly going to Ithaca.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 11:53:38 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 01, 2009, 05:11:27 AM
St. Lawrence will host another 4 team pod and face Brockport St. UM-Dartmouth will take on the NAZ/RIT winner.(Which they show as RIT. Pat must have a crystal ball)

We crystal-ball the projections every year, Magicman.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on March 01, 2009, 09:44:12 PM
Congrats to RPI for beating both Hamilton and SLU back to back.  RPI 2-1 on the year vs. SLU.

Anyone at the games that can provide any insight?

with all the upsets hamilton is out-  LL to get 2 teams RPI & SLU
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: larry_u on March 02, 2009, 04:40:16 PM
Can someone post your NCAA team's profiles in here:

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=6299.0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on March 08, 2009, 09:12:35 AM
Was anyone at the Stockton/RPI game? with age?  UCAAHoops?   What happened? Lack of balance/depth, 22 turnovers/20 fouls, a bad night or all of the above?  Seems like they hung tough the first half.  Sure they got dumped sooner than they hoped but at least they danced.
Maybe the RPI coach can share the inside scoop since it looks like SLU will be playing Stockton on Fri.

CONGRATULATIONS to St. Lawrence (22-6) for making the Sweet 16 and representing the LL.  4 players in double digits each night.  Their M.O. all year.  Such a balanced, cohesive, well coached, centric team.  KEY FACTORS once you step off that small stage.
Sounds like Stockton is very similar to SLU with 5 players & the coach receiving post season honors.
Best of luck Saints!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: manofgor24 on March 08, 2009, 12:21:32 PM
I am confused because I thought someone was on here a month or so back saying  that SLU was a top 25 team...  I cant remeber his name but I think he got banned for being awesome and funny...  Any help remembering because it would seem to me that he was right on about SLU and all you geeks on here got offended...

Man
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2009, 07:02:39 PM
For beating Brooklyn and SUNYIT, suddenly St. Lawrence is a Top 25 team? Not sure what's different for St. Lawrence now than last Sunday except they've played two more teams they were supposed to beat ... and at home at that.

He got banned for making crude remarks, not for claiming St. Lawrence is a Top 25 team. Beating two more unranked teams at home, though, is not any more indication of Top 25 caliber.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: manofgor24 on March 08, 2009, 10:29:37 PM
You are right making the sweet 16 is easy and beating those teams was a walk in the park...  Someone should take your computer away
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 12:22:01 AM
I just don't know that beating No. 97 Brooklyn College and No. 157 SUNYIT elevates someone into the Top 25.

I'm sure St. Lawrence is probably better than the 84th-best team in the country that Massey thinks it is, but not Top 25.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 09, 2009, 09:20:08 AM
I think SLU is a top 25 team between 18-25.  Due to their early season losses and prior year records, I dont necessarily think the should be ranked though.  typically it takes a past season success (in the rankings or close) then followed up with another good year to break into the top 25 from the east region.  I do think SLU is a bit underrated though and has a shot at a final 4.  They already beat middleberry the top ranked team in their bracket.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 10:34:33 AM
They certainly have a shot at the Final Four, considering they'd only have to beat one ranked team to get there.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FisherDynasty on March 09, 2009, 02:43:26 PM
exactly, pat i know they create the brackets based on region but how could the committee put all the top ranked teams into one bracket.  Its pretty unbelievable. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 02:45:39 PM
Sigh ... tell me about it.  :-\
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on March 10, 2009, 01:32:55 PM
I pretty much agree with whatever PC says and he is usually right, which is again the case here. If SLU is a top 25 team, they should have walked through the conference tourny which in fact they got beat twice by a team they had no business losing to. I would agree they are a good team, better than i thought they would be and yes they do have a decent chance at making it to the final four, but lets not get too excited over the Saints and keep bringing up the Middlebury game, because Middlebury lasted as long as RPI did......one game.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Spanky Slazenger on March 10, 2009, 03:10:19 PM
It really just goes to show you how people think in this world...  Why would you discount what SLU is doing by saying they havent had to play anyone????  It is so ignorant to think they arent as good as where they are because of competition!!!!!!  last time I checked these teams all make the tournament for a reason they dont just pick teams out of a hat... or maybe they do it certainly wouldnt surprise me...

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Spanky Slazenger on March 10, 2009, 03:10:47 PM
Oh yeah thanks for letting me back on guys... :'(
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2009, 03:29:55 PM
Very few bans are lifetime bans.

Quote from: Spanky Slazenger on March 10, 2009, 03:10:19 PM
Why would you discount what SLU is doing by saying they havent had to play anyone???? 

Why would you discount what other teams who have played anyone in the tournament are doing?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Spanky Slazenger on March 11, 2009, 09:11:37 AM
You stat geeks need to look up SLUs SOS... Pretty sure its 17
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2009, 09:53:47 AM
I think if they weren't 1-2 against RPI, they may well have been in the Top 25 entering the tournament. 22-4 is a much better sell than 20-6.

But now the two games against ranked teams look a lot different too, don't they? The teams St. Lawrence played went a combined 0-2 in the tournament.

The East has three voters -- if none of them was voting for St. Lawrence then I am not going to lose any sleep over it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: GrassyKnoll on March 11, 2009, 02:51:07 PM
Are these "top 25" rankings really to be believed? The final poll (unless there was one that came out the morning the pairings came out that I missed) had Ithaca at #8 and Middlebury at #12 and both those teams lost at home in their first game after having a first-round bye. SLU gets discreidted for wins vs. 2 teams that are ranked low in the polls, but the same SUNYIT team they beat, dropped #13 Elms the night before? I think having the 17th SoS with 22 wins and being alive with 16 teams to play should mean something with regard to "top 25" rankings.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bamm on March 11, 2009, 03:01:34 PM
Ithaca had only two losses when the tourney started (versus SLU's 6).  And oh yeah, they beat SLU in Canton.

Middlebury had only 3 losses and at one point railed off 17 straight.


What, exactly, do you want the guys who vote in the poll to do? 

What the hell is the matter with you guys?  I know most kids who attend St. Lawrence have a screwed up sense of entitlement anyway, but geez.


/joke
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: GrassyKnoll on March 11, 2009, 03:47:01 PM
I'm just questioning the validity of the rankings is all. Ithaca did beat SLU in Canton and Middlebury lost to them. SLU had their own warts with some bad loses, but who does the rankings and who have they seen play? If it's coaches, have they taken the time to watch and evaluate all teams? It seems odd that there can be such an accurate ranking system AND have, consistently, so many teams lose what are. Was SLU really the #28 best team at 18-4, having won 14 of 15 with a top 20 SoS, with 3 of those 4 loses coming to Ithaca home (nationally ranked), Widener neutral (MACC champs and NCAA team), and Ursinus neutral (before Hilton got hurt and ranked #12 in the country). Maybe, I'm just saying it doesn't seem that the rankings are really worth salt and just might be inaccurate in some cases. Hypothetically, would SLU transform from 84 in the Massey to 1 in they won the entire tournament, or is there maybe something that was miscalculated earlier.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2009, 04:59:28 PM
Any readers here who are even thinking they might want to attend the Final Four should enter the City of Salem's contest: Free lodging, free tickets, admission to team banquet and VIP passes:

http://www.d3hoops.com/salemgiveaway/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 12, 2009, 11:29:43 PM
Like most teams SU can have good nights and bad nights.  I do think the east might be slightly underepresented in the polls at same time, lets face it, conferences like the UAA are way superior to any NYS conference. An also ran like NYU or Rochester would be a powerhouse in the Liberty League.  There are some teams in very weak conferences that also get too much love (see Elms- with a loss to SUNYIT).  Another league for them (ie put them in the UAA) I doubt very seriously if they would be .500.  Sometimes you just have to give love for good records and that is the way it is.  All being said if SLU wins at Richard Stockton I think they should be a top 25 team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 13, 2009, 01:46:47 AM
Quote from: with age came? on March 12, 2009, 11:29:43 PM
All being said if SLU wins at Richard Stockton I think they should be a top 25 team.

Absolutely.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 13, 2009, 03:29:41 AM
It's been said that timing is everything. St. Lawrence not being ranked in the D3Hoops Top 25 poll all year is simply a matter of timing. If you look at their season it can easily be explained. They started out the year with a loss and after 7 games stood at 4-3. Nobody gets ranked with a 4-3 record especially teams coming out of the East region. That takes care of the 1st 5 polls. They put together a 6 game winning streak to get to 10-3 by Jan. 20th but lose their next game to RPI. The Saints then go on another 6 game winning streak and on Feb. 7th, I posted this on the Top 25 board:

"St. Lawrence University 16-4, leader of the Liberty League should be added to the watch list. Current win streak of 6, 12-1 last 13 games, owns a win over #16 Middlebury 84-71 and close loss to # 9 Ithaca."

2 days later on Feb.9th, the Week 10 Top 25 poll comes out and St. Lawrence gets 4 votes, the 1st time they've been mentioned all year. They win their next 2 games
and in the next poll garner 23 votes to move into the #28 spot. St. Lawrence at this point is probably a week away from cracking the Top 25. Unfortunately they lose their next game to a 9-14 Vassar team and drop off the radar, losing every bit of love they had accumulated.  Again, timing is the key. If they win that Vassar game their record would have been 20-4 and they probably are ranked #25 in the week 12 poll. Not that it mattered, because the 2nd loss to RPI in the playoffs would have dropped them out of the poll the next week anyway. Making the Sweet 16 is nice but as Pat said they beat 2 teams they should beat. If they had to play a 1st round game against any team from the "Bracket of Death" I'm not sure if they would still be playing. They are a solid team and I hope they continue to advance in the tournament for 2 reasons. I picked them to make the Final Four, and Tom Wopperer is on my fantasy team. Go Saints!!!    

   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 14, 2009, 01:48:11 AM
St Lawrence's season comes to a close as they fall to Richard Stockton 71-68.

St Lawrence almost pulled it out after falling behind by 18 with only 8 minutes to play. Furious comeback falls just short as they get to within 1 at 69-68. With 20 seconds left in the game and Stockton with the ball they take a shot with only 3 seconds left on the shot clock. They miss the shot but come up with the offensive rebound and SLU has to foul with 17 ticks left. Stockton makes both and Saints come down needing a 3 to send it to OT. Don't understand how Ralph Temgoua takes the shot , he was 1 for 6 from the field prior to hoisting up what sounded like an off balance shot that ended the game. Wish it had been Wopperer taking the shot as he had 4 threes and 21 points just in the 2nd half. He finished as the game's high scorer with 26 pts. The Saints well balanced scoring took a hit tonight as Garret Sharlow and Terry Parham failed to score a single point between them, and Tempoua managed only the 1 basket. Bela Vonnak had 19, Richard Williams had 14, and Josh Sharlow added 7.  Tough to beat a team as solid as Stockton on their home court but the Saints certainly showed their heart in mounting their comeback. Congratulations on a fine season.    
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 18, 2009, 05:32:32 AM
Sam Simmons and Tom Wopperer were the Liberty League players selected to the All-East Region Team just announced. Here's the complete list. Congratulations to all.


Men's All-East Region Team
Players were nominated for these awards by the Sports Information Directors at the various schools. All SIDs in the region were given the opportunity to vote.

Player of the Year: Sean Burton, G, Ithaca
Coach of the Year: Jim Mullins, Ithaca
Rookie of the Year: Chad Burridge, F, Oswego State

First team

Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
G Sean Burton Ithaca Sr. Yorkville, N.Y.
G Scott Morton Geneseo State Sr. Syracuse, N.Y.
F Mike Chmielowiec Rochester Sr. Batavia, N.Y.
F Sam Simmons RPI Sr. Newburgh, N.Y.
C Mark Carson Rochester Tech Sr. Voorheesville, N.Y.

Second team

Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
G Corey McAdam Nazareth Jr. Fairport, N.Y.
G Tom Wopperer St. Lawrence Sr. Manlius, N.Y.
F Ryan McAdam Nazareth Sr. Fairport, N.Y.
F David Golembiowski SUNYIT So. Barneveld, N.Y.
C Jeff Bostic Ithaca Sr. Geneva, N.Y.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on March 18, 2009, 11:13:10 AM
Congratulations to St. Lawrence & RPI for post season play.
RPI regrouped and rose from the ashes after last year's regrettable NCAA ineligible player infraction.
Any truth to the rumblings that the RPI coach is stepping down?  Will one of the assistant coaches take over?
Will the LL gain some strength or be even weaker next year?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 19, 2009, 12:36:53 AM
Flyz5- Have not heard anything about Griffin.  Probably would be a nice time to step down as I think RPI will be down next year.  Go out with an NCAA appearance.  As a whole I think the LL was as strong this year as it has been for awhile.  Good parity and six of the 8 teams in the playoff hunt on the last game of the season.  One doesn't know about recruiting but based on returnees I think the league will be slightly down overall next year.   SLU will still be the team to beat but Wopperer and Vonnak are good players that I believe will graduate.  Williams was pretty good too and I believe will be gone, but both Sharlows, Parham and the return of Andy Hoercher from injury will make SLU the favorite.  Hamilton will probably be down slightly as well with the loss of Wood (in particular) and Dumas to a lesser extent but will always challenge.  RPI will be down unless someone vastly improves.  They have been the Simmons show for a couple years and he is gone.  Clarkson will be better.  Loses solid contributors in Salanger & Smith but everyone else returns including 2 POY candidates in Linton & Pickering (if he gets totally healthy). Union will be down but will compete for playoff spot ( though loss of Desmaris & Madej will hurt). Hobart will contend for league title - everyone back, strong underclassman in Estep & Llewellyn -especially if a big steps up and Llewellyn plays slightly more in control. Vassar I believe will be down with loss of Butterworth & Davis ( I would have to pick them as 8 th in the league).  Skidmore - mark my words - will be the most improved team in the league.  They had the best total freshman recruiting class in the league and will be a contender either next year or the following year for certain.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on March 20, 2009, 08:35:43 AM
with age---
you seem to know the most about RPI.  You have mentioned at least 2 or more players from the LL teams that will create a significant loss except RPI.
RPI seems to be the only team across the DII boards where the issue of team imbalance is so extreme.
To quote you---"they have been the Simmons show for a couple of years, he WAS the team, had no other option, the man is the ENTIRE show at RPI, he gets no help, RPI is the Simmon's show, RPI needs someone to complement Simmons and Simmons carried his RPI team on his back for the whole season."
In your humble opinion, how does this happen?  It seems contrary to the NCAA DIII philosophy and strategic plan which incorporates the priorities and important values of teamwork, discipline, ethical competition, respect for others and the overall well being of every student athlete.
Is the problem ineffective/lack of/poor/recruiting/coaching/mentoring/leadership/player development??
Is it all about winning & not about the individual scholar athletes?
VERY interested in your take since you seem more connected to RPI than most.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 23, 2009, 12:29:40 AM
FlyZ- I am not as well versed with RPI as you give me credit for.  I do think that Simmons did dominate the team at RPI.  RPI was an extremely young team with only one other senior a scrappy guard (Perner) who was not really an offensive threat so it could be that next year a more balanced team will emerge, but if you asked me where RPI would have been without Simmons this year I think I could say quite seriously that they would not have made the LL playoffs and finished the season with 6-8 fewer wins.  Simmons was the that important to the success of this team.  There is no other single player in the league whose loss to a team would have affected their outcome so greatly.  Their second option at RPI was a decent swingman (Rupp) but he probably would not start on the St Law team that RPI beat in the league championships. Their other bigs were scrappy (Brion)  &/ or lanky (Philatre) and either could surprise when not in Simmons' shadow.  Guard play really was by committee so I did not get the flavor that there were any standouts. This is not a knock on the coaching staff because honestly winning the league would change my vote for Coaching Staff of the year to Griffin's at RPI.  There was absolutely, "in my mind", no way that RPI would beat St Law on its home court for the the title.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on March 23, 2009, 01:24:24 PM
with age-your response is much appreciated!! I don't think I gave you too much credit.
Not so sure winning 1 game at St. Lawrence should have earned RPI coaching honors.  Did RPI have a great game or did SLU have an off game?  Coaching honors encompass an entire season.  Hands down (no pun intended), the best and most deserving coach won COY.
Glad to see some love for other RPI players who (sort of) contributed.
Yet the issue of gross team imbalance still exists unlike any other DIII program.
RPI had an 18 man roster last year and a 16 man roster this season---a JV feeder team to draw from---and 4 years of recruits since Simmons joined the team (after being recruited, according to their website, by the football program).
How does a team end up depending on one player, who wasn't even a basketball recruit, almost exclusively, for 2 years?
Isn't it kind of incredulous? The numbers just don't add up.
They recruited an ineligible foreign player, ineffective guards and bigs that are overshadowed??
Shouldn't there have been more options, better player development and more effective recruiting?  (3 good reasons why Downs was COY).
Call me crazy but I don't get it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 25, 2009, 12:09:17 AM
flyz- Your points are absolutely valid.  Recruiting, player options, & development - Downs is hands down better.  I guess I have a little different philosopy on COY.  If one includes the above categories there is no question of Downs' merit for COY, but my personal position is what did you achieve with the "hand you were dealt" during the season.  I know you could say that you were in part the cause of "the hand" but I chose to say that once the season has started recruiting from that time forward really can not alter the season, so how did a coach do with what he has in front of him.  Downs just had the horses 2 first team allstars (J Sharlow & Wopperer), a second teamer (Williams) and an unrecognized but deserving in my mind Sr (Vonnak).  In addition he had 2 really good freshman that I am sure were considered for ROY (Parham & G Sharlow). He had the horses, granted possibly because of his own recruiting efforts, and he rode them home.  However Griffin rode a one horse & several ponies team to 2 wins over St Law and a spot in the NCAA's.   He may have relatively accomplished more with comparatively less once the season started and recruitment no longer became a tool for improvement during the course of the season. I think both of our arguements could be made and both are valid. We just chose to look at the criteria for evaluation in different ways. ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on March 25, 2009, 08:25:19 AM
with age-thanks for the insight.
The upshot is that I will never understand how Griffin got his RPI team into the untenable position of such an unbalanced "one horse show".  Makes no sense but who knows--there's always next year and perhaps, a new era.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 30, 2009, 11:36:24 PM
Flyz- Hence my point- what better time to step down.  You have just led you your team to Liberty League Championship and NCAA berth and next year you may be picked for 6th 7th or 8th in the league.  Go out a "psuedo" winner and leave the mess for someone else to solve?? Hey it could be I am all wet about the remaining talent and giving Simmons far too much credit (but I don't think so and only time will tell). ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FLYZ5 on April 02, 2009, 07:36:53 PM
No question-Simmons deserves a lot of credit.  He definitely was Griffin's workhorse. If there's a dearth of remaining talent because someone fell asleep at the wheel, that's certainly not Simmons' responsibility.
I'm not so sure Griffin would consider it a winning exit strategy to "leave a mess for someone else to solve". He seems to be a shrewd coach and I have to give him more credit than that.  Hopefully, he thinks a bit more outside the box because, as you know, with age,(hopefully), comes wisdom.  ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on April 16, 2009, 04:56:52 PM
Any chance the LL looks for someone to replace Hamilton when they leave for the NESCAC full time in two years?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on June 04, 2009, 02:53:54 PM
With Stockwell heading to Oswego, any word on the Clarkson vacancy?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Raptormania! on June 16, 2009, 01:10:13 PM
"Any chance the LL looks for someone to replace Hamilton when they leave for the NESCAC full time in two years?"

Yes. An upgrade. Bard College to the Liberty League, starting in 2011-12. Enjoy conference titles while you still can, Liberty League members.

http://www.libertyleaguesports.org/images/release_0619.pdf
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on June 16, 2009, 09:00:01 PM
Raptormania!  It will be fun to see you on the LL board from now on.....

Who is going to coach for Bard?  Why is coach wood leaving?  You seem to be in the know down there....

Wondering what this does for scheduling for LL????

Vassar and RPI are current travel partners, RIT I guess matches with Hobart for travel, but what about Bard/Vassar and RPI, Union & Skidmore?

Not sure yet about this move, but RIT is solid and I have to think Bard is going to step up with a new coach and more investment in athletics, especially hoops
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Raptormania! on June 16, 2009, 11:40:37 PM
Thanks for the welcome!

Still eager to find out who will be at the helm next- could be a huge opportunity.

Bard clearly will need to step up athletics funding to compete in the Liberty League. However, I don't think they'd take this step if that weren't on the table- I certainly hope not, anyway!

Two games a year against Vassar is also going to be fantastic for on-campus participation. Vassar, for those who don't know, is Bard's arch rival. It's been upsetting not to see the two teams play in recent years.

Bard/Vassar, I assume, have to be likely travel partners.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FROMAFAR on June 17, 2009, 12:16:46 PM
It feels strange writing on this page......  :o I guess I'll be in and out until RIT begins it's LL phase........... but will have to stay close to E-8 as I know the teams and players there now...........  While the Tigers are my heart, I will try to follow both leagues, even when they leave the E-8. I get to see Stevens a bit and will learn more about them this year so I can have an AX over there....I am looking forward to the competition in the LL........ also, interested in upcoming recruiting...
I need you guys to give me some solid info next year, since the gang over at the E-8 posts are really on it....... I expect the same here.... Don't expect too much from me however because What do I know ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on June 29, 2009, 01:23:01 PM
I've been thinking about the new additions to the LL for about a week, trying to make sense of it all. Bard's track record shows that they haven't been competitive, and this move is a good one for them, one that may actually help their programs evolve, as they can show they have made a commitment to sports, somewhat, by joining a league with schools that have been competitive in New York state and beyond.

Still though, while it may be a good move for Bard, I don't see that paying dividends for a while, much like how Vassar's programs have developed (to some extent).

With RIT, there is another issue and that's school size.

Here are the enrollment figures for each of the current LL schools (at least according to the numbers up on the D3hoops.com pages for each of them. I don't know if those numbers are the current figures, but I'm guessing they are pretty close to the truth)

Clarkson — 2,579 full-time undergrads
Hamilton — 1,775
Hobart — 1,866
RPI — 5,170
Skidmore — 2,249
St. Lawrence — 2,068
Union — 2,127
Vassar — 2,377

Bard is listed as having 1,544 full-time undergrads, so they certainly fit the school size profile.
Currently, RPI has roughly double (or slightly more than double, in some cases) the amount of students at most of the other Liberty League schools.

R.I.T., however, has 12,731 full-time undergraduate students, more than double what RPI has. It seems like a pretty big disparity and is similar a NYS Class A high school competing against a Class C school.

I also do not understand why the LL took two teams to replace one. I'm sure they needed to add more than one school to make sure more sports would qualify for an automatic bid, but taking two to replace one certainly upsets the balance in basketball, creating a nine-team league, much like what happened with the Empire Eight when they added Stevens. This creates travel problems, scheduling issues and will negatively impact the team or teams left without a travel partner. Bard/Vassar makes sense, and RIT will likely pair with RIT, which also makes sense for the two westernmost teams. Clarkson and St. Lawrence should continue, leaving RPI, Skidmore and Union (all Albany-area teams) as the odd trio. Union and Skidmore have traveled together, so will that remain and RPI becomes the odd man out or will they take turns traveling with each other.

Regardless, there will be some trips where one team will be playing Friday night/Saturday afternoon against partnered teams that will either have a Friday night or Saturday afternoon game, not two games over the weekend.

Just seems like not a lot of thought went into the decision, particularly on the basketball side of things, which is pretty much what I care about. Or, if there was some thought, not enough.

I'd be interested in hearing what others have to say about the situation.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on June 29, 2009, 01:27:21 PM
Also, any word on Clarkson job yet?

That job is still listed as open on the D3 site (as are the soon-to-be LL member Bard, and Hartwick), and I haven't heard anything floating around about any of these positions.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: btlew on June 29, 2009, 04:42:42 PM
Not sure that the size of a school is as pertinent in college athletics as it is in high school.  In high school, especially at public schools, a larger school gives you that much more of a population pool to pick prospective athletes from.  However, in college, you recruit.

So although RIT may have more students, this only becomes an advantage if they have a significantly higher athletic budget - which I highly doubt is the case.  Given that they have a similar academic footprint as some of the other Liberty League schools ... as well as the common thread of a Division I team that garners the majority of attention on campus, I think their make-up is quite similar to members of this league. 

I do, however, agree that Bard is a reach unless they are ready to start supporting athletics.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3lifer on June 29, 2009, 07:51:54 PM
While school size may not affect your talent pool b/c you recruit your athletes in college it can have a drastic affect on the ease in which institutions can support or provide better committment to athletics facilities, aid, recruiting budgets etc...Now it can be clear what schools make a committment to certain sports there are many schools that commit financial means to their basketball programs that are much smaller than other schools in their conference just that it can be easier for some colleges more than others to support better than others. Now remembering that none of these schools are athletic scholarship schools and that decisions on financial aid are supposed to be based on merit (financial or academic) as it relates to there athletes. Some schools do a better job of packaging their athletes than others thus the debate previously about Alfred being a tough job because of location, but that this is a sleeping giant because it has shown an importance in football through the grapevine heard they want the same committment in basketball.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UCAAHoops21 on June 29, 2009, 09:40:18 PM
Buck....

great stuff on the enrollment breakdown.  Can't wait to see what the scheduling looks like with the RIT/Bard additions.  Strange that the league goes to the extremes with enrollment numbers in the additions.  Would have thought the schools coming in would be in the ballpark with one another...Never knew RIT was so big, will they add football in the LL?  I have to think RIT comes in competitive right away, interested in seeing what impact this has on RPI & Clarkson-probably all look at some of the same kids in recruiting circles.

Still have to think Bard is stepping up athletic program... I don't know anything about Bard other than their recent record and raptormania's great posts...Have to guess that since they are looking for both a men's & women's hoop coach they are looking to upgrade their programs.  Also, on their website they are looking for assistant athletic directors with different responsibilities.  Seems odd that right after they announce the move they have these openings unless they are making changes to be more competitive.  Maybe raptor can get some scoop on these jobs and who is in the mix...

Clarkson should be a good team next year,can't wait to see what they do for a coach.  Solid core group back and they made the play-offs last year.  Between Clarkson, Bard and Hartwick some interesting jobs out there.

Saw on the news a story about RPI's new football stadium and gym...very impressive.  I am sure football and basketball will get a big recruiting bump out of this.  Lots of changes coming for the LL

minor coaching news with LL interest...RPI assistant coach Rich Gilooly is thought to be leading candidate for head coach at Bishop Maginn High School in Albany.  They won a state title not too long ago and he is a teacher there.  Don't know much about him, but my LL people say good things.  thought this is interesting with all the rpi chatter on this board a few pages back
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on June 30, 2009, 10:14:31 AM
Back in the day, RIT was in the same conference as some Libert Leaguers- the old ICAC, in the late 60's and through the 70's, included RIT, RPI, Union, Alfred, Hobart, Ithaca, St.Lawrence, and Clarkson.....   RIT was very competitive in that conference during some of those years  -  in that particular 10 year span, I would guess that RIT, RPI, Union, and St. Lawrence each won conference titles and made the NCAA's--   anybody remember Tracy Gilmore from RIT - mid 70's - good player....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: btlew on June 30, 2009, 01:16:31 PM
It is actually much more recent than that.  Up until the mid 90s, RIT, Hobart, Clarkson, St. Lawrence and RPI were all members of the Empire Athletic Association together, with I believe Hartwick, Alfred and Ithaca.  I think it was around 1996 or 1997 that they all left to join the Liberty League and then the Empire 8 was born.

RIT can come in and be compete right away.  They always seem to have competitive teams - not great teams, but competitive teams.  They had a good run with the Jones kid in the late 90s ... and have probably been to the NCAAs a handful of times since then.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on July 02, 2009, 04:00:29 PM
Quote from: btlew on June 30, 2009, 01:16:31 PM
It is actually much more recent than that.  Up until the mid 90s, RIT, Hobart, Clarkson, St. Lawrence and RPI were all members of the Empire Athletic Association together, with I believe Hartwick, Alfred and Ithaca.  I think it was around 1996 or 1997 that they all left to join the Liberty League and then the Empire 8 was born.

RIT can come in and be compete right away.  They always seem to have competitive teams - not great teams, but competitive teams.  They had a good run with the Jones kid in the late 90s ... and have probably been to the NCAAs a handful of times since then.

I believe you are right about Hartwick, Alfred and Ithaca being members of the EAA, although the Liberty League was originally the UCAA. I think they changed the name of the league around 2001, after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Raptormania! on August 07, 2009, 03:36:51 PM
This is a breaking urgent super-important news alert by Raptormania!.

As Raptormania! celebrates its tenth anniversary, the outlook for Bard basketball has bever looked brighter. By hiring Raptors legend Adam Turner as head men's basketball coach, the Bard Athletics Department has provided the best tenth anniversary present since Larry David's wife gave him permission to have sex with that dry cleaner played by Gina Gershon on Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Read our complete coverage at:

http://www.raptormania.com
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: organizingmom on October 15, 2009, 10:28:50 PM
What are the predictions/comments about the LL this season...good and bad?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: doubleaz87 on October 20, 2009, 10:22:31 AM
Both SLU & Clarkson should be top teams even tho Clarkson has a new coaching staff. Bard should be an easy win for any team in this conference. RIT might make news early so watch out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FROMAFAR on October 20, 2009, 12:34:28 PM
doubleaz.... RIT won't make news this year in LL....... don't rush us.........we still have some business in E-8......... to take care of. ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Raptormania! on October 25, 2009, 11:45:32 PM
doubleaz87, I believe I can guarantee that no Liberty League wins will be at Bard's expense in 2009-10.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: organizingmom on November 07, 2009, 10:57:34 PM
Does anybody know where I can find the webcasting coverage of the LL this season? Last year most of the games were webcasted by Penn Atlantic and there was also Live Stat coverage for most of the games too.
I cannot find either one this season:-(
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on November 08, 2009, 01:22:41 AM
Your best bet is to contact the SID (sports information director) of the home institution for whatever game you want to watch. You can find their contact information on the schools' respective athletics website.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on November 08, 2009, 10:49:16 PM
I agree Clarkson & SLU should be in the mix, though a new coach at Clarkson is a concern.  You never know if new "systems" can mesh with "old"players.  Certainly talent wise both of those teams are strong for the LL.  My early thoughts are that Hobart will enter into the fray also.  Very strong returnees in Estep & Lllwellyn.  Also mark my words oh ye of little faith Skidmore will compete this year.  I have said this before that I thought that Skidmore had the best total recruiting class last year.  RPI will have to replace about half of its offense (Simmons is gone) and may struggle.  Vassar lost key players also as did Hamilton (especially Harlee Wood).  Union has lost a couple of strong players also Demaris & someone else which escapes me right now but will be competitive.  This league has the potential again to be a real "barnburner" with 5 or 6 teams having real playoff shots.  And if someone has managed to recruit an impact freshman all of the above could change. So flying blind here goes the first predictions on this board:   1) SLU 2) Hobart 3) Clarkson 4) Hamilton 5) Skidmore 6) Union 7) RPI 8 ) Vassar. Honestly I think 2-8 could play out just about any way once the season unfolds. The only "sure thing" is that SLU should be the early favorite.  Also I am shocked about the RIT & Bard news.  I always expected Hamilton to bolt they truly only seemed to participate in hoops anyway, but I did not see the RIT move from the e-8 ( the league that couldn't count since it has 9 members).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: nybball on November 09, 2009, 08:47:48 AM
Word from the SUNYIT vs. St. Lawrence scrimmage on Saturday is that SUNYIT beat SLU pretty easily and by a large margin.  SLU is very young and inexperienced.  The starters for each team only played in the 1st and 2nd halves, and SUNYIT won each by over 20 points a piece.
Title: Re: Hamilton roster???
Post by: bmull on November 12, 2009, 10:08:13 PM
Hamilton roster?????
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on November 15, 2009, 07:49:31 PM
Hobart opens up tomorrow against Ithaca.  I actually agree that they will make a splash for two reasons.  First, they return everyone.  The recruiting classes of the past few years are ready to take a big step.  According to their team page, Estep transferred out, but that will free up some guard space for a few athletes who gained experience last year.  Second, Skidmore did have an overall nice recruiting class.  The Statesmen brought in two impact Freshmen this season, however.  CBA's Stefan Thompson will start and a scorer from PA named Davis will get a lot of time.  Those two should make their presence felt for a while.  The LL is wide open.  I expect the Statesmen to push for the top spot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 15, 2009, 10:48:16 PM
Clarkson opens season with a 76-62 win over Cazenovia. Elson Pickering had a double-double with 14 pts and 10 boards, while Keith Murray led all scorers with 19 points going 6 for 6 from the field in the 2nd half. Murray also had 5 steals. Brandon Linton had 13 pts and 6 rebounds and Jonathan Hood added 11 pts and 6 rebounds. Knights next game is Tuesday against SUNY Canton.

In other action today RPI topped Sage 82-62. Ricky Philatre had 16 pts and 16 rebounds to lead RPI. The Red Hawks host Cooper Union College this Friday in the Rensselaer Tip-off Tournament.

Brockport traveled to St. Lawrence and in a mild upset edged the Saints 75-72. Saints missed a 3 at the buzzer that would have forced OT. SLU's Garrett Sharlow was the game's high scorer with 19 pts. Josh Sharlow and Andy Hoercher both added 12 pts. Brockport had 5 guards score in double figures. The Saints next travel to Franklin & Marshall to take on Gwnnedd-Mercy in the 1st round of the Rotary Tipoff tournament.

Vassar opens with a 78-66 win over Endicott. Soph Caleb McGraw scores a career high 37 pts to lead the Brewers. Vassar takes on Newbury College this Friday in the opening round of the Vassar Invitational.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on November 17, 2009, 07:41:17 PM
What happened to my LL pick last night?  Hobart lost their opener to Ithaca at home.  Was anyone there who could fill me in?  It sounds like Ithaca rode some hot hands after the Statesmen jumped out to a early lead!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 19, 2009, 04:15:43 AM
Clarkson moves to 2-0 with a 71-61 home win over SUNY Canton  Tuesday night at Alumni Gym. Elson Pickering with another double-double led the Golden Knights with 18 pts, 12 rebounds, and 3 blocks. Soph Jonathan Hood also had a double-double with 13 pts and 10 boards. Canton's Tony Valentin had a hot hand all night scoring 22 pts in the 1st half and finishing with a game high 36. Clarkson jumped out to a 14-0 lead but Valentin kept his team in the game and the pesky Kangaroos wouldn't go away. Down by 8 at the half Canton fought back to tie the game at 40 and kept it close until the Knights had a 10-0 run to give them a double digit lead with about 8 minutes left to play. Foul shots down the stretch kept Clarkson in control.

Next up for Clarkson at home is crosstown rival Potsdam State at 4 PM on Sat. Nov. 21st .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 21, 2009, 04:16:45 AM
St Lawrence drops their 2nd straight losing to Gwynedd-Mercy 87-77 in the opening round of the Rotary Tipoff tournament at Franklin & Marshall Friday evening. SLU grabbed an early lead of 13-8 after the first 5 mins of play but Gwynedd-Mercy shut the door on the Saints over the next 8 minutes outscoring them 24-0 to take a 32-13 lead before Garrett Sharlowe hit a layup and foul shot to stop the bleeding. SLU closed the gap slightly to trail 46-32 at the break. They continued to cut into the Griffins lead and twice got within 2 possessions at 66-61 with 9:25 left and again at 72-67 with 6:31 remaining but that was as close as they would get.
Garrett Sharlow came off the bench to lead the Saints with 20 pts. Josh Sharlow was right behind with 17pts, including 5x10 from 3 pt land. Andy Hoercher also was hot from behind the arc(4x8) as he scored 16 pts. Ralph Temgoua added 15 pts.
Rebounds and free throws told the story of the game as the Saints were out rebounded by nearly a 2-1 margin, 40-21. The Griffins went to the line 29 times and made 24 while the Saints hit 12 of 17. John Hogga led the Griffins with 26 pts and 10 boards. 

Franklin & Marshall beat New York City Tech 102-40 in the other game. I thought the 2 losers played in the consolation game but both SLU and F&M websites say the Saints are playing F&M. However the SLU score was originally posted wrong on the Friday scoreboard showing an SLU win so that may have triggered a mix-up for Saturday's matchups. Wouldn't surprise me to see SLU playing New York City Tech on Sat.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 21, 2009, 04:44:41 AM
Other LL scores from Friday Night:

Hamilton beat SUNY-Canton 89-56 in the Continentals season opener. Pat Sullivan was the game's high scorer with 18 pts. Eric Benvenuti was 5x10 from the field ((3x5 3's) and totaled 15 pts along with 6 rebounds. Dayne Harris and Ken Click were also in double figures as they both added 10 pts. Tony Valentin led Canton with 17 pts.
Hamilton takes on Ursinus in the Championship game on Saturday at 4PM

Vassar drops Newbury 77-62 in the opening round of the Vassar Tip-Off Tournament. They will now face #5 ranked Richard Stockton in the Championship game on Sat at 3PM. Stockton beat Western Connecticut 88-86 to advance.

Here's the link to game details:
http://www.vassarathletics.com/news/2009/11/20/MBB_1120090328.aspx?path=mbball


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on November 21, 2009, 11:49:56 PM
The Statesmen of Hobart played Alfred in the finals of the Pizza Hut Tournament at Dickinson after beating the hosts in the opening round Friday night.  Sophomore Matt Pebole led all scorers with 19....while the freshmen Thompson and Davis chipped in with 16 and 12.  Alfred won in the championship 53-51 after being down by 9 with 3 minutes to play.  Mark Bruce played a solid game to land on the all-tourney team with Pebole. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 22, 2009, 02:26:08 AM
St Lawrence did play New York City Tech on Sat and not Franklin&Marshall. Probably a good thing as the Saints needed a win and they got it downing the Yellow Jackets 71-41.

SLU is off until Dec 1st when they travel to Plattsburgh State to take on the Cardinals.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 22, 2009, 02:57:52 AM
Clarkson wins the battle of Potsdam as they top their North country rival Potsdam State, 83-62. It was the largest margin of victory in the history of the rivalry.
Clarkson is now 3-0 and looks to extend their Northern New York mastery when they host Plattsburgh State on Sunday Nov 29th at 6PM.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on November 22, 2009, 05:45:49 AM
Quote from: magicman on November 22, 2009, 02:57:52 AM
Clarkson wins the battle of Potsdam as they top their North country rival Potsdam State, 83-62. It was the largest margin of victory in the history of the rivalry.
Clarkson is now 3-0 and looks to extend their Northern New York mastery when they host Plattsburgh State on Sunday Nov 29th at 6PM.

Magic - missed a qualifier here.  It is the largest CLARKSON margin of victory.  I don't have the data base at home, but there are a number of 30+ point margins going in the other direction.

That being said, Pickering is a playa - 6-6 wide body, in shape, good ball skills, can shoot the three.

Bears are seriously undersized, only one player suited taller than 6-2 and he played 6 minutes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on November 24, 2009, 01:52:54 AM
Bear - what happenned to Kelso (big & a kind of nasty attitude) & Lotheridge (sp?) like 6' 11" but needed to get into the weight room? Both of them I thought had potential at the d-3 level. Don't see even of them on the roster?  Seems like Pickering is playing more like his Sophmore year than last year which would be good for the Knights.  He has tremendous capabilities when he is healthy.  He can be a "game changer". I'll check on SUNYAC board too in case you put something over there. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 24, 2009, 02:11:08 AM
with age you're up late tonite. Are you going to be in Potsdam Sunday for the Clarkson- Plattsburgh St game?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hoopmang7 on November 26, 2009, 05:46:05 PM
is no one going to comment on the quick 4-0 start by skidmore, including a pretty impressive winning of the nyu tip off tournament led by tourney MVP and junior standout Jeff Altimar.  The team looks much improved and could compete in the league playoffs. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on November 30, 2009, 03:59:09 PM
Nov. 17    7:00 PM   SUNY-Cobleskill    W, 83-72         
Nov. 21    1:00 PM    at New York University •    W, 80-75   

Nov. 22    3:00 PM   Ferrum @ NYU Tip-Off Tourn.    W, 74-63         
Nov. 24    8:00 PM   Southern Vermont •    W, 110-58

You want to talk about Skidmore, let's look at the wins:

Beat SUNY Cobleskill by 11, 83-72. Cobleskill is currently 1-5, their only win coming against the LL's Union, picked to finish 7th in the league.

Beat NYU by 5, 80-75. NYU is 3-1, but their wins have come against E8 strugglers Elmira and Stevens Tech, and a weak Old Westbury team.

Beat Ferrum by 11, 74-63. Ferrum is 1-4, their only win coming against the E8's Elmira.

Beat Southern Vermont by 52, 110-58. So. Vermont is 2-3, their wins coming against Stevenson (0-6) and Sage (1-3, their win against Albany College of Pharmacy).

I'm not saying that Skidmore's not going to have a good season, and they have certainly gotten off to a good start, but the quality of those wins does not show them to be a juggernaut. We'll see how they fare once they get to the league schedule to see if their wins against a weak non-league slate are smoke and mirrors or the real thing.

Also, when posting on these boards, if you want to be taken seriously, you should consider that others can see your e-mail address and discern pretty easily -- especially when using a school e-mail -- if you are simply a homer or someone with insights. There are plenty of people who post about their schools, but the ones who avoid abuse are the ones who offer a more even-keeled approach to posting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 01, 2009, 05:43:47 AM
SUNYIT moves to 4-0 coming back from an early 21-4 deficit to down Hamilton 82-69. Hamilton hit 9 of their first 10 shots including 3 treys but Wildcats claw their way back with a 21-4 run of their own to tie the game at 25 with 7:00 left in the 1st half. The teams went into the break still tied at 36. Back and forth play for the 1st few minutes of the 2nd until Floyd Thorne layup gives the Wildcats a 41-39 lead they would never relinquish. Up 69-65 with 4 minutes to play Diloo Brown hits back to back 3 pointers sandwiched around a Hamilton miss to extend the lead to 10 with 2:14 left. SUNYIT hit 7 straight free throws down the stretch to close out the Continentals. Brown and David Golembiowski shared the game's high scoring honors with 24 pts each to lead the Wildcats. Brown who came up just short of a rare triple-double  added 12 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals, and a block with only 2 turnovers. Golembiowski's stat line also included 7 boards, 5 assists, 2 blocks, and 2 steals with no turnovers. Thorne chipped in with 16 pts on 4x4 fg, 1x1 3's, 7x10 ft.
Hamilton placed 3 players in double figures led by Dayne Harris with 15 pts and 8 rebounds. Pat Sullivan scored 14 pts and Jay Simpson added 10.
Only the 2nd time Hamilton has lost to SUNYIT in their last 26 meetings.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on December 01, 2009, 08:26:01 AM
Quote from: magicman on December 01, 2009, 05:43:47 AM

Only the 2nd time Hamilton has lost to SUNYIT in their last 26 meetings.

The other time also was under the Tobin Anderson era, I believe. Wasn't it the year Tom Murphy took over the SUNY IT program after having been ousted from Hamilton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: doubleaz87 on December 01, 2009, 10:38:49 AM
Steve Thomas, Chris Ruiz and Plattsburgh really woke up Clarkson on Sunday night as they handed them their first loss. As former Clarkson Coach Stockwell was in attendance, the golden knights nearly got ran out of their own gym. Clarkson looked to be a strong team with plenty of experience looked like a chicken with it's head cutoff as they got killed by more then 20 points in the first half. Is Clarkson really that bad or is Plattsburgh really that good? Who knows, Plattsburgh ended up giving up that big lead as Clarkson got the game within 8 points late. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 01, 2009, 10:17:15 PM
Plattsburgh State holds off St. Lawrence to claim a 90-86 win tonight at Memorial Hall in Plattsburgh.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 02, 2009, 12:42:44 AM
Just back from the Plattsburgh St-St Lawrence game and it was a nail biter. SLU jumped out to an early 14-9 lead but Cards take lead 20-17 at the 10 minute mark of the 1st half and were never headed. Up 34-26 for their largest lead of the half Saints close to within 3 but Steve Thomas hit a pull up jumper with 2 seconds left and the Cards go into the break up 41-36. Saints come out of the break and get within 1, 43-42, 3:10 into the half. Back and forth action with Cards going up by 5 or 6 only to have the Saints come back and close to 1 possession game on 5 occassions until Plattsburgh opens up their largest lead at 64-55 with 10:35 remaining. Again SLU closes to 66-64 and teams trade baskets over the next 7 possessions. Up 72-70 with 4:42 left, the Cardinals get a driving layup by Carl Munnerlyn 1 of 2 free throws from Errol Daniyan, and a midcourt steal and breakaway dunk by Steve Thomas to stretch the lead to 7. Saints Garrett Sharlow drains a three, Cards Danny Tangney with offensive rebound and putback to extend lead back to 6. Jack Conboy layup and Ralph Temgoua putback cut lead to 79-77 with 1:59 remaining. Cards Munnerlyn hits a big 3 pointer but Chris Ruiz called for his 5th foul and Temgoua hits both free throws for SLU to cut lead to 3 with 1:19 left. Daniyan hits 2 foul shots with 23 secs left to start the foul parade that followed. Cards hit 8 of 10 free throws in final 23 seconds to seal the win.
Munnerlyn led the Cardinals with 23 pts on 7x14 fg, 2x2 3's, 7x9 ft. Daniyan added 14 pts on 4x8 fg, 6x8 ft, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks and 2 steals. Steve Thomas also had 14 pts(4x12 fg, 0x3 3's 6x8 ft, 6 boards, 3 steals, and 3 assists. Chris Ruiz was limited because of foul trouble but managed 12 pts and 6 rebounds in 20 minutes. Ketama Brooks added 10 points on 4x5 fg, 2x2 3's.

St Lawrence placed 6 players in double figures led by Garrett Sharlow the game's high scorer with 24 pts on 9x17 fg, 3x6 3's, 3x3 ft and 9 rebounds. Andy Hoercher had 12 pts (4x9 fg, 1x2 3's, 3x3 ft) and a game high 5 assists. Josh Sharlow, Ralph Temgoua, Terry Parham, and Nick Meunier all finished with 11 pts each.

Saints shot 30x70 from the field(42.9%), 4x11 from behind the arc(36.4%), and 22x27 from the charity stripe(81.5%).

SLU falls to 1-3 on the season and travels to Vermont on Thursday Dec 3rd to take on nationally ranked and unbeaten #15 Middlebury Panthers (5-0). Personally I think that ranking is a little too high for the Panthers right now and SLU is probably going to be the best team they have faced this year to date. SLU beat them 84-71 last year and advanced deeper into the NCAA tournament than Middlebury did. Both teams lost their leading scorer from last year, Tom Wopperer for the Saints and Ben Rudin for the Panthers. The Saints also lost Bela Vonnak and Richard Williams which will probably hurt SLU more than the Panthers loss of Kyle Dudley and Matt Westman but SLU is a better team than their record would indicate and it wouldn't surprise me if they pull off the upset. It could be a great momentum builder for the Saints. Here's hoping!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 02, 2009, 12:56:26 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on December 01, 2009, 08:26:01 AM
Quote from: magicman on December 01, 2009, 05:43:47 AM

Only the 2nd time Hamilton has lost to SUNYIT in their last 26 meetings.

The other time also was under the Tobin Anderson era, I believe. Wasn't it the year Tom Murphy took over the SUNY IT program after having been ousted from Hamilton.

buck
That would be correct. Anderson's 1st year as coach was the 2004-05 season and SUNYIT beat Hamilton 75-72 on DECEMBER 7TH, 2004. A day that will live in infamy!! :D ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 02, 2009, 02:41:32 AM
Clarkson loses their 2nd contest of the week to a SUNYAC opponent as they fall at Oswego 60-46. Golden Knights who led briefly in the early going found themselves down by 7 with 5:57 to play in the half. Twice they managed to cut it to 1 before back to back buckets by the Lakers gave Oswegp a 5 pt lead at the break. An 11-4 surge by the Knights to start the 2nd period gave them the lead at 34-33 with 17:20 remaining but it would be the last time Clarkson enjoyed an edge. The Lakers regained the lead at the 16:23 mark and steadily increased it to double figures 48-38 with 10 minutes left to play. The Knights would make a final run to get within 4 near the 5 minute mark 49-45 but 4 straight empty possessions gave  the Lakers a double digit lead with 2:50 left to play. Foul shots provided the final 14 pt margin. Knights had to feel the loss of Rey Jefferson who was injured taking a charging foul in the closing stages of Sunday's game against Plattsburgh St. He left that game with 19 pts at the time of his injury.  Stand out stats in tonight's game: Lakers went to the line 37 times and made 23. Knights only had 18 ft's and made 11. Oswego enjoyed a huge rebounding margin grabbing 19 offensive boards for a total of 54. Clarkson had 13 offensive rebounds for a total of 34. Neither team shot the ball that well with the Lakers 18x52 fg's (34.6%) and only 1x14 (7.1%) from beyond the arc. Clarkson was worse, shooting  14x57 fg's (24.6%) and 7x24 (29.2%) from 3 pt land.  Oswego's Chad Burridge with 15 pts and 11 rebounds was the games leading scorer. The Laker's Hayden Ward also had a double-double with 13 pts and 14 boards. Elson Pickering with 10 pts and 6 rebounds was the only Clarkson player in double figures. Clarkson falls to 3-2 and next will host Morrisville St. this Friday at 7 PM .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 02, 2009, 03:30:03 AM
Hobart with a big win tonight at  #35 St John Fisher. The Statesmen take down the Cardinals 90-83 toppling them from the unbeaten ranks. Hard to figure how they can beat Fisher on the road and lose when they hosted Alfred. Hobart now 3-2 on the season.

Union beats Southern Vermont 78-69 to square their record at 2-2.

Skidmore visits Hartwick and comes away with a 79-71 overtime victory to remain undefeated at 5-0. For the past 10 months with age has been touting their recruiting class last year. It looks like he was right and the Thoroughbreds will be a competative squad. In addition to all those talented Sophomores they have, they added a 6'4" Freshman from South Africa, Sakhile Sithole who is coming off the bench averaging 20 minutes a game, and is the 2nd leading scorer on the team with 13.2 ppg and 5.0 rebounds per game. Against NYU he had 20 pts and 5 boards in 18 min. Thoroughbreds will try and stretch their unbeaten streak this Friday when they host Johnson State in the opening round of the Hilton Garden Inn Invitational.  The other teams are Wells and York.



Vassar falls to New Paltz 75-64 and drops to 2-4 on the year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 02, 2009, 04:29:15 AM
Quote from: doubleaz87 on December 01, 2009, 10:38:49 AM
Steve Thomas, Chris Ruiz and Plattsburgh really woke up Clarkson on Sunday night as they handed them their first loss. As former Clarkson Coach Stockwell was in attendance, the golden knights nearly got ran out of their own gym. Clarkson looked to be a strong team with plenty of experience looked like a chicken with it's head cutoff as they got killed by more then 20 points in the first half. Is Clarkson really that bad or is Plattsburgh really that good? Who knows, Plattsburgh ended up giving up that big lead as Clarkson got the game within 8 points late. 

I prefer to think that Plattsburgh is really that good. :) ;) ;D Seriously though this is a team that last year was in the majority of their games right up till the last few minutes and then inexperience got in the way. Poor shot selection on a crucial trip down the floor, turnover at the worst time, missed free throws during crunch time. You have to remember that 2 years ago Plattsburgh had the best regular season record in the country at 26-2  and was ranked in the Top 10. They lost all five starters off that team. Last year they only had 1 senior on their team and he only played for the 2nd semester. Most nights they started 4 sophs and a jr. They had to learn how to close out games. This year 2 new faces, Steve Thomas, a JC transfer, and Carl Munnerlyn also a JC transfer who was hurt last year and sat out the season have joined returning starters Chris Ruiz, Errol Daniyan, Danny Tangney, and point guard Ketema Brooks. Those 6 average between 20 and 34 minutes a game with 4 more guys adding 8 to 12 minutes a game. The Cardinals have the quickness and athleticism to stay with most anybody. They can come at you with full court pressure on defense and fast break, run and gun on offense. Both Brooks and Munnerlyn can run the point and Ruiz, Thomas, Tangney, and Munnerlyn can knock down the threes. Thomas is only 6"2" but plays like he's 6'6" or more. Ruiz averaged 18.2 ppg last year and was the SUNYAC's 2nd leading scorer. This year Thomas and Daniyan are both over 17ppg and Ruiz is 3rd on the team with 13.0 ppg. Munnerlyn also averages double figures with 12.2 ppg. Daniyan, the teams leading rebounder with 8 per game has turned his free throw shooting around in a huge way. Last year he was below 50% and the team was one of the worst in the country. This year Daniyan is the 2nd best free throw shooter on the team, with a 76.3 average. He's already won 2 games by hitting foul shots in the waning seconds.    Even Brooks, who is usually  pass first and doesn't look to shoot much can get hot and burn you as he did tonight against SLU hitting 4x5 fg with 2 of them 3's. I think the Cardinals have a good chance to reclaim that SUNYAC Championship they held for 3 years in a row before last year's learning experience. However as always the YAC will go right down to the wire and  Oneonta , Cortland, or some other team may beat out the Cards. But I like our chances and I like our chances for next year even more.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: doubleaz87 on December 02, 2009, 03:58:34 PM
Quote from: magicman on December 02, 2009, 04:29:15 AM
Quote from: doubleaz87 on December 01, 2009, 10:38:49 AM
Steve Thomas, Chris Ruiz and Plattsburgh really woke up Clarkson on Sunday night as they handed them their first loss. As former Clarkson Coach Stockwell was in attendance, the golden knights nearly got ran out of their own gym. Clarkson looked to be a strong team with plenty of experience looked like a chicken with it's head cutoff as they got killed by more then 20 points in the first half. Is Clarkson really that bad or is Plattsburgh really that good? Who knows, Plattsburgh ended up giving up that big lead as Clarkson got the game within 8 points late. 

I prefer to think that Plattsburgh is really that good. :) ;) ;D Seriously though this is a team that last year was in the majority of their games right up till the last few minutes and then inexperience got in the way. Poor shot selection on a crucial trip down the floor, turnover at the worst time, missed free throws during crunch time. You have to remember that 2 years ago Plattsburgh had the best regular season record in the country at 26-2  and was ranked in the Top 10. They lost all five starters off that team. Last year they only had 1 senior on their team and he only played for the 2nd semester. Most nights they started 4 sophs and a jr. They had to learn how to close out games. This year 2 new faces, Steve Thomas, a JC transfer, and Carl Munnerlyn also a JC transfer who was hurt last year and sat out the season have joined returning starters Chris Ruiz, Errol Daniyan, Danny Tangney, and point guard Ketema Brooks. Those 6 average between 20 and 34 minutes a game with 4 more guys adding 8 to 12 minutes a game. The Cardinals have the quickness and athleticism to stay with most anybody. They can come at you with full court pressure on defense and fast break, run and gun on offense. Both Brooks and Munnerlyn can run the point and Ruiz, Thomas, Tangney, and Munnerlyn can knock down the threes. Thomas is only 6"2" but plays like he's 6'6" or more. Ruiz averaged 18.2 ppg last year and was the SUNYAC's 2nd leading scorer. This year Thomas and Daniyan are both over 17ppg and Ruiz is 3rd on the team with 13.0 ppg. Munnerlyn also averages double figures with 12.2 ppg. Daniyan, the teams leading rebounder with 8 per game has turned his free throw shooting around in a huge way. Last year he was below 50% and the team was one of the worst in the country. This year Daniyan is the 2nd best free throw shooter on the team, with a 76.3 average. He's already won 2 games by hitting foul shots in the waning seconds.    Even Brooks, who is usually  pass first and doesn't look to shoot much can get hot and burn you as he did tonight against SLU hitting 4x5 fg with 2 of them 3's. I think the Cardinals have a good chance to reclaim that SUNYAC Championship they held for 3 years in a row before last year's learning experience. However as always the YAC will go right down to the wire and  Oneonta , Cortland, or some other team may beat out the Cards. But I like our chances and I like our chances for next year even more.
I can agree they probably are that good and your right they were very young last year. But do remember Chris Ruiz started in some games his freshman year and was looked to last season as the go-to guy. This year it seems like his role has changed a bit and that might be a cause for concern down the stretch if he becomes too laid back. He played a OK first half against Clarkson and then when the game mattered most he stalled out finishing the game 4-13 from the field with 3 turnovers in the second half. I say this but yet I still think he has the potential to be the best player in the conference this season. ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on December 03, 2009, 02:07:00 AM
Hey guys (in particular Magic & Bear) my computer was out for few days.  Went to the Oswego Clarkson game last night.  Oswego won by 14 but it really was a little closer than that for the greater part of the game.  Clarkson shot very poorly and Stockwell's insider knowledge was critical.  That being said I think that Oswego will be very good this year and if they keep what they have and get a solid athletic guard they will really be a force.  I want to tell you their bigs are good.  Burridge is a scorer and good leaper with quickness for a 6'7" sophmore but the real difference maker last night was this "beast of a freshman" Hayden Ward. 8 offensive rebounds, good defense, just a coaches dream in my opinion. Think though they are young they (the Lakers) will compete for playoffs in the YAC.  Stockwell is a good coach and the team works hard.  Little lacking at guard though not bad just not a plus for them yet but their bigs are very good! Think Clarkson will be in the thick of things for the LL (which I think may be down a little this year).  They (Clarkson) were missing a good shooting guard Jefferson who had to sit out the game with an injury.  He has been shooting 50% from beyond the arc and they could have used his touch.  Neutral court I think the game would have been close to the end but Lakers still would have won.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 03, 2009, 06:23:46 AM
Hamilton College travels to Utica College and drops a 60-48 decision Wed. night.
Continentals hold slim 2 pt lead at the half 24-22, but Pioneers quickly grab lead after the break and never look back. Build lead to double digits at the 10 minute mark and extend it to 16 before settling for the 12 pt win. 2nd time in 3 days that Hamilton loses to a team from Utica by double digits as SUNYIT won 82-69 on Monday night. Pat Sullivan with 17 pts and Dayne Harris with 10 lead the Continentals, who once again were plagued by poor shooting. Hamilton falls to 2-3 and next takes on Elmira at home on Tuesday Dec. 8th at 8 PM.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 04, 2009, 04:21:19 AM
St Lawrence travels to Middlebury and drops a 79-57 decision on Thursday night.
Saints down 5 at the half, 33-28 come back to tie it at 35, but the Panthers go on a 15-3 run to break the game open and extend lead to 25. Garrett Sharlow led the Saints with 15 pts and 6 rebounds. Ralph Temgoua added 12 pts and 4 boards.
SLU committed 22 turnovers and only shot 37.5% from the field 21x56. Thought the Saints would be more competative than this. SLU next uo Tuesday Dec. 8th when they host Potsdam State.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on December 04, 2009, 03:08:36 PM
Just wondering what is happening with Hamilton? They got beat by both SUNYIT and Utica, which doesn't necessarily mean anything. But then Union beat SUNYIT, 75-60 last night. I know it doesn't mean Union is necessarily better than Hamilton — in fact I don't think coaches in the league think so — and I never like those sort of arguments, where a D3 team would beat a D1 team just because they beat someone who beat someone else, and so on. But, it does make me wonder if there is something happening with Hamilton. Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?

By the way, things seem pretty screwy with the LL teams. I know it's the non-league slate with many variables in play, but this was the preseason prediction by LL coaches (with first place votes in parentheses, followed by their current record):

2009-10 Liberty League Men's
Basketball Preseason Coaches' Poll
1. St. Lawrence (5) — currently 0-4
2. Hamilton (2) — currently 2-3
3. Clarkson (1) — currently 3-2
4. Rensselaer — currently 3-1
5. Hobart — currently 3-2
6. Skidmore — currently 5-0
7. Union — currently 3-2
8. Vassar — currently 2-4

Again, I know it's early and all, it's just that the top two predicted teams seem to be struggling quite a bit. Just curious about what others are seeing, hearing and thinking.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 04, 2009, 08:25:27 PM
Skidmore falls from the unbeaten ranks as they drop a 77-67 decision to Johnson State College, in the opening round of Skidmore's invitational. Thoroughbreds will take on the loser of the Wells-York game on Saturday afternoon at 1 PM. Don't think Skidmore saw this one coming as the Vermonters were only 1-5 coming into this game. Skidmore falls to 5-1 on the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 05, 2009, 02:23:47 AM
Clarkson downs Morrisville State 71-57 to up their record to 4-2. Golden Knights are now off until January 4th when they travel to Rochester to take on the U of R Yellowjackets. Clarkson reaches double figure lead at 27-15 but only go into the break up 32-26. Extend lead to double digits early on in 2nd period and never let the Mustangs get closer than 10. Keith Murray with 17 pts, Felix Llanos with 13 pts, and Elson Pickering with 10 pts paced the Knights.

D3hoops team pages for both Clarkson and Brockport show them playing a game on Dec 15th at Brockport but schedules on both school's websites don't list that game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 12, 2009, 03:22:56 AM
St. Lawrence, down by 16 against Ithaca College with 9:48 left to play comes all the way back to gain the lead 87-86 with 3:42 left. After 7 more lead changes the Saints miss a 3 point attempt, and turn the ball over on their next possession. Bombers hit 4 straight free throws to claim the victory 101-97. SLU had 5 guys in double figures led by Ralph Temgoura with 24 and Garrett Sharlow with 18. Both Josh Sharlow and Nick Meunier had 15, while Terry Parham added 10. Saints fall to 2-5 and travel to Elmira for a 3 PM Saturday afternoon matchup.

Skidmore travels to Trinity (Conn.) and comes away with an 82-79 road win to move to 7-1 on the season. The Thoroughbreds took the lead 3-2 on a 3 pointer by John Douglas and were never headed, stretching their advantage to 36-10 with 6:41 left in the 1st half. Trinity down by 20 at the break and still down by 23 with 10:05 remaining nearly came all the way back and missed a 3 pointer at the buzzer that would have forced overtime. Skidmore placed 5 players in double figures led by Terron Victoria with 15, Jeff Altimar with 14, and Douglas with 14. Raoul Oloa and Sakhile Sithole both added 10 pts.
Skidmore is now off until Jan. 3rd when they travel to Vermont to take on the Castleton State Spartans.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 13, 2009, 03:14:24 AM
St. Lawrence handles Elmira 89-70, as expected, led by a trio of players in double figures. Ralph Temgoura once again was the high scorer for the Saints,with 20 points on 7x11 fg, and 6x6 ft. Terry Parham had 13 pts and Garrett Sharlow added 11, as the Saints shot 55.75 from the field(34x61). Eleven different players broke into the scoring column as SLU took control early and led by double digits for most of the game. Saints shot 8x15 from behind the arc and 13x19 from the line. SLU record now stands at 2-5 and somewhat disappointing but 4 losses have been on the road all against decent teams. The only game they weren't competitive was on the road against 9th ranked Middlebury, a 79-57 setback. Saints are a young team that should get better as the season progresses and I still think they'll be in the hunt for league honors. They need to take better care of the ball, especially when it's crunch time to turn some of those close defeats into victories. SLU off until Dec. 29th when they take on a decent McDaniel team (4-2)
in the 1st round of the St. John Fisher holiday tournament.  McDaniel already owns a victory over #16 ranked Franklin & Marshall. If the Saints should win that game they will probably play Fisher, if not they will probably play St. Vincent.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 13, 2009, 03:35:40 AM
Union drops to 3-4 on the season as they lose to Western New England 58-56. Next up they go for the Utica sweep as they take on Utica College this Tuesday Dec. 15th. The Dutchmen already own a 75-60 win against SUNYIT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 04, 2010, 08:37:00 PM
Clarkson's Elson Pickering hits a 3 pointer with 6 seconds left to play to tie Rochester at 61 and send the game into OT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 04, 2010, 09:03:05 PM
Big win for Clarkson as the Golden Knights travel to Rochester and come away with a 66-63 overtime victory over the Yellowjackets. Brandon Linton led 4 Knights in double figures with 14. Keith Murray had 12, Elson Pickering 11, and Felix Llanos added 10. Clarkson goes to 5-2 and will host Cortland St. on Wed Jan. 6th.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 05, 2010, 04:44:15 AM
I swear this may be the biggest regular season road win for Clarkson in years. The @ Hamilton win in the 2007-2008 season was big but not like this one in my opinion. Pickering seems to be healthy and playing better this year and Linton & Murray are always pretty solid.  Hood & Llanos seem to be coming of age too.  If they can carry this momentum into the season they will definitely compete in the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 05, 2010, 02:33:42 PM
Quote from: with age came? on January 05, 2010, 04:44:15 AM
I swear this may be the biggest regular season road win for Clarkson in years. The @ Hamilton win in the 2007-2008 season was big but not like this one in my opinion. Pickering seems to be healthy and playing better this year and Linton & Murray are always pretty solid.  Hood & Llanos seem to be coming of age too.  If they can carry this momentum into the season they will definitely compete in the LL.

Newspaper article in Watertown Daily Times said it was the 1st time since the 1982-83 season that Clarkson had beaten Rochester. I was following the game online last night and Clarkson was down 3 in regulation and had about 4 or 5 attempts to tie it up and kept missing until the big bucket by Pickering sent it to OT. Knights were never headed in the extra session. Would love to see them make a good run at the Liberty League title this year. Still think St Lawrence will have a lot to say about that despite their early struggles. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 07, 2010, 04:42:27 AM
Another good win for Clarkson Wednesday night as they take down one of the top SUNYAC teams, Cortland St. 58-54. Here's a post from jdex off the SUNYAC board:

"Cortland bettered at Clarkson 58-54. Knights 25-22 midway and hold slim margin, but for one reversal, throughout second half. RDragons have 54 reb to hosts 32, but shoot 23x68fg, 5x17 3s, 3x9ft. Knights 19x53fg, 6x23 3s, 14x18ft. CSt's P. Oliver 12 pts(5x13fg), 7 rebs in 25'; J. Winter 10 pts(4x6fg, 2x4 3s), 8 trnvrs, 5pf in 23'; B. Nagle 16 rebs, 8 pts(4x8fg) in 33'. Little from M. Lewis. Clarkson gets 13 pts from K. Murray, 12 from F. Llanos, 11 from R. Jefferson."

Knights improve to 6-2 and next travel to Elmira on Saturday Jan. 9th. They wind up the non-conference portion of their schedule with a tune-up against Division I Cornell University on Monday Jan. 11th. The Big Red have turned into The Big Red Machine this year as the Ivy Leaguers own victories over Alabama, UMASS, St Joe's, Davidson, and St. Johns among others. On Wednesday night they barely got beat by #1 ranked Kansas 71-66 and are sporting a 12-3 record. The Clarkson game will be Cornell's final non-con game as they head into Ivy League play. No D3 team has beaten a D1 team yet this season and it looks like the Knights string of upsets will come to an end. But hey, we can dream. They will open conference play hosting Vassar and RPI on Sat and Sun Jan 15th and 16th. Go Knights.

with age,
Cornell game is one you might want to take in if you've got the time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 08, 2010, 02:10:19 AM
Great week for Clarkson with Cortland win also.  Magic you are so right about me getting to Ithaca to see Knights take on Cornell but Monday is a brutal day for me.  If it were any other day I might give it a shot.  Saw the clips of Cornell vs Kansas.  There is no way even a "dreamer or two like us" can hope for a victory.  If you saw the clip a ref looked "the other way" on a Cornell 3 to take the lead with a few seconds left as the defender lunged and hit the shooter's arm.  Cornell is probably a tournament team that may give a high seed a real scare if they keep playing like this.  Think Gilbride (Clarkson's new coach) must have used his "Ivy" connections to get that game. Son's now in Boston and he wants to get up for a game so maybe I'll try to get as far as Potsdam and catch 2.  Your Cards lookto be in the thick of the SUNYAC & I agree SLU will be a contender in the LL before the end of the season.  Think the Knights will be there 2.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 11, 2010, 11:28:46 PM
Here's a link to the game report from the Cornell Web site about their game versus Clarkson tonight.

http://www.cornellbigred.com/news/2010/1/11/MBB_0111100627.aspx

Obviously, there was no big surprise here.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 14, 2010, 01:52:24 AM
Did anyone see what Skidmore did to Union tonight.  I have been saying that I thought that Skidmore had a very good recruiting class but to put the hurt on Union on the Dutchmen's home court really says that Skidmore might be a "contender"!  Move over Marlon Brando!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 14, 2010, 03:55:43 AM
Quote from: with age came? on January 14, 2010, 01:52:24 AM
Did anyone see what Skidmore did to Union tonight.  I have been saying that I thought that Skidmore had a very good recruiting class but to put the hurt on Union on the Dutchmen's home court really says that Skidmore might be a "contender"!  Move over Marlon Brando!!!

with age,

Actually that game took place on Tuesday night but the score was never reported to
D3hoops. Skidmore did put a hurting on them for sure. Union has been all over the place this year. They start out with a loss to 3-9 SUNY-Cobleskill, Beat a decent SUNYIT team, by 15 points that was undefeated at the time. SUNYIT had just come off double digit wins against Utica College and Hamilton prior to playing Union. The Dutchmen then proceed to drop 4 in a row of which the losses to Western New England and Utica by a total of 3 points should have been games they won. They then beat a good Elms team that owns wins over Amherst and Plattsburgh St. So you never know which Union team is going to show up.

And then there's Skidmore. I remember everything you said about Skidmore's freshmen group last year so I've kept a close eye on them all year. When they beat NYU in their 2nd game of that opening 5 game win streak I thought, wise old with age knew what he was talking about. Then came that Johnson State debacle on the Thoroughbreds home court no less to put an end to their streak. That was bad. I mean Johnson State couldn't even beat Canton. The Skidmore sophs must have played like a JV squad in that game. Also a little disappointed with the Castleton St and Norwich loss. I'm guessing this team is a lot like Plattsburgh was last year. They're in every game but are young and make poor decisions when crunch time rolls around. Ponies could very well be sporting a gaudy 10-1 record right now istead of 7-4.They will certainly contend this year for the LL title and with the conference having graduated a ton of talent from last year it's a wide open race. They may or may not win the crown this year but next year and the year after will be Skidmore time I'm sure. About the only thing I can say with any certainty is that Vassar won't make the playoffs. :D   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 15, 2010, 11:15:58 PM
What the hell is happening in the league this year. I am a bit out of the loop this season, but wow. Skidmore absolutely demolishes Union on Tuesday, as magicman and with age noted, and rolls out to a 2-0 league record to continue to show their dominance. Union rebounds with a win over Hamilton by 9.

As it stands now (after Friday night's games), Skidmore, Clarkson and RPI are all 2-0 in the league, Hamilton and Union are both 1-1, and St. Lawrence, Hobart and Vassar are all 0-2. Does anyone have some insight for me, because the way things have gone with LL teams (including their non-conference games) this season are weird.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 16, 2010, 05:04:32 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on January 15, 2010, 11:15:58 PM
What the hell is happening in the league this year. I am a bit out of the loop this season, but wow. Skidmore absolutely demolishes Union on Tuesday, as magicman and with age noted, and rolls out to a 2-0 league record to continue to show their dominance. Union rebounds with a win over Hamilton by 9.

As it stands now (after Friday night's games), Skidmore, Clarkson and RPI are all 2-0 in the league, Hamilton and Union are both 1-1, and St. Lawrence, Hobart and Vassar are all 0-2. Does anyone have some insight for me, because the way things have gone with LL teams (including their non-conference games) this season are weird.

buck,
Not sure where you looked to come up with those conference records, but Clarkson, RPI, St. Lawrence and Vassar have only played 1 conference game so far.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 16, 2010, 10:17:47 AM
Ah, magicman, my bad. I just quickly looked and assumed that none of last night's games had been factored into the standings on the LL page on D3hoops, which is where I came up with that. You are right, only Hamilton, Hobart, Skidmore and Union have played their travel partners so far, so they are the only ones with two games played in the league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 16, 2010, 08:30:58 PM
Clarkson defeats visiting RPI 71-64 to move into sole possession of 2nd place in the Liberty League. Clarkson is now 2-0 in league play and trails Skidmore by a half game. Skidmore, who improved to 3-0 today with a 74-58 win over Hamilton, is the only other team with no conference losses. Thoroughbreds have now disposed of Union, Hobart, and Hamilton, in that order, by double digit wins. Ponies now looking like the team to beat. Both Clarkson and Skidmore are now off until next Friday when the Golden Knights travel to Saratoga for a matchup to determine early league supremecy.

Clarkson upped their overall record to 8-4 today and were led by a pair of players with double-doubles. Elson Pickering with 14 pts and 11 rebounds, got plenty of help from Jonathan Hood's 10 pt, 12 rebound effort. Brandon Linton with solid all around play had 13 pts, 6 assists, 5 rebounds, and 3 steals. Felix Llanos chipped in with 10 pts and George Koduah just missed the team's 3rd double-double with 9 pts and 9 boards. RPI's Eric Anderson was the only Engineer in double figures with 10 pts.   

Close 1st half with several lead changes Clarkson gained 28-22 advantage late but RPI closed to within 3 to trail 28-25 at the break. Clarkson opened up the 2nd with an 8-0 run and went up by 15 to maintain a double digit lead for much of the period. RPI finally got it under 10 with 3:12 left to play, closed to within 4 in the waning seconds but the Knights hit their free throws to close them out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 16, 2010, 08:39:40 PM
Host St. Lawrence downs Vassar 72-52 to claim their 1st league win and now stand at 1-1. Vassar now in lonely cellar at 0-2.

Up and down Union goes down again, this time to visiting Hobart 64-50. Both teams are now 1-2 in league play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 17, 2010, 04:01:34 AM
Buck I agree this league is totally wide open.  The only team that may have a rough season is Vassar and its still early.  One thing is for certain I don't think we will see gaudy 12-2 conference records from St Lawrence and Hamilton this year unless they go on some monstrous streaks.  I have a feeling we could have a lot of teams still in the hunt for the playoffs deep into season. Next weeks games at Saratoga with Clarkson and SLU coming to town will be very interesting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 18, 2010, 03:52:06 PM
Updated Pool C rankings of the East Region from the Pool C board on the Multi-Regional Topics page.
Includes all games through 1-17-10.
Reg #       wp       owp      oowp    RPI     Nat.  Pool        Region  OVR  Conf.     Team
E   001   0.800   0.609   0.534   0.6380   011   C   005     8-2    12-2   UAA      Rochester
E   002   0.846   0.584   0.531   0.6364   012   A   C      11-2    12-2   SUNYAC   Oneonta State
E   003   0.786   0.531   0.561   0.6023   031   A   C      11-3    12-3   E8       St. John Fisher
E   004   0.714   0.546   0.576   0.5955   038   C   020    10-4    11-5   E8       Nazareth
E   005   0.625   0.625   0.503   0.5946   040   C   021     5-3     8-4   SUNYAC   Brockport State
E   006   0.692   0.565   0.555   0.5942   041   C   022     9-4    10-4   UAA      New York University
E   007   0.750   0.551   0.520   0.5927   043   C   024     9-3    12-4   E8       Ithaca
E   008   0.636   0.620   0.484   0.5904   045   C   025     7-4     8-5   SUNYAC   Plattsburgh State

With no Liberty League team appearing on this list it is certain that only the Conference Tournament winner will go to the NCAA's this year.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 21, 2010, 12:13:42 AM
Magic I agree with everything in your statement except the word "certain".  If by some miracle my Knights ever learn to pay a consistent game and quit going 5-28 for 3 point land, run the table in the league, end up at 21-4 (I don't think d-1 game vs Cornell counts???) and then lose in the championship game of the Liberty League tourney, they may get a bid with their U of R win.  If Skidmore hastens my predictions (that they would be a serious contender next year) and instead runs the table, ends up 14-0 in the league and then loses the in the Liberty League Championship - I could see the possibility of a pool c bid.  The only other team that has a shot at that kind of bid would be the same scenario for RPI.  All this mumbo jumbo means - yes very unlikely anybody goes to the dance but tournament champs but not yet quite certain.  SUNYAC is tough and there may be some losses handed out in that league to the leaders. UAA is always crazy tough and I do not think that U of R will stay on top nor that NYU will be there at the end of the season.  The only team that I think I would call the closest to a "shoe in" is St John Fisher.  Think they are the class of the e-8 and will be there in the end.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 21, 2010, 02:06:43 AM
with age,
I was pretty sure when I said that "it is certain" phrase I'd get some feedback from you about it. And I don't disagree with what you said, but I don't think Clarkson or Skidmore will run the table in the LL this year. If they do then yeah, they're right back in it but the East Region will get at the most 2 Pool C bids this year and if the regional leaders get upset in their tournament it'll be slim pickings for a 2nd team in any of the other conferences to get in. It's still too early to even know who the regional leaders will be 5 or 6 weeks down the road. Plattsburgh St. went from 1st to 8th in the proverbial blink of an eye. The possibility also exists that NO East Region team will get an at large bid.

As good as that U of R win looks for Clarkson, the Elmira loss looks just as bad and I'm guessing the Oswego loss won't look great by the end of the year either. And I just noticed that visiting SLU took down the Knights Tuesday evening 53-48. That hurts. Brandon Linton for Clarkson and Garrett Sharlow for SLU each went 0-8 for 0 points. WOW!! I don't think a SUNYAC team will get an at large bid either except possibly Oneonta St. But as you said the league is tough and I'll be surprised if the regular season winner has less than 4 losses.
Skidmore already has a bad loss (Johnson St.), and 2 others that don't look very good. RPI probably has the best Regional record of any LL team right now as none of their losses would be considered a bad loss. It'll be a waiting game to see if any East Region teams can put together some kind of run. St. John Fisher had a great opportunity to move into the rankings this past week but blew it with the loss to Rochester in the finals of the Wendy's Classic on Saturday. Now U of R is on the cusp of cracking the Top 25 but will have to get by Brandeis on the road on Friday. Don't think that's gonna happen. No one else in the East has merited any Top 25 support this year so far. Oneonta St. with a win over #21 William Paterson might get a mention if they continue to rack up the W's but I won't be rooting for them on the 29th when they come to Plattsburgh. ;D   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: WNYHoops on January 21, 2010, 01:12:26 PM
I've been away for some time, but I want to chime into the regional ranking and possible Pool C consideration from the East Region. U of R and Fisher are always getting the publicity. Ithaca last year and Brockport and Plattsburgh in the past too have represented the East well. But I want folks to begin to take notice of schools from the "lesser" leagues in NYS that can play with all the big boys this year. More specifically Wells and SUNY IT from the NEAC and Medaille from the AMCC.

All are East Region members and should be in the discussion for top teams in the region. SUNYIT went to the NCAA's last year and nearly reached the Sweet 16. They return nearly everyone from that team and have one of the top players in the region in Dave Golembiowski. Wells is super athletic with a number of big-time players. They have beaten SUNY IT and will be a good bet to play them again in  the NEAC finals for the league's AQ.

Medaille has very quietly slipped into the Top 25 national ranking, yet get no notice on these boards. Their conference is not real strong, but they do have wins over then 9th ranked John Carroll on the road and an always tough Penn State Behrend. This is another team coming off an NCAA papearance last year nad are loaded with veteran players who understand their roles. If you are not convinced, just ask the St. John Fisher players who scrimmaged them in the early season. I have heard the MAvs had their way with the Cardinals. Keep an eye on all three of these teams heading into Feb.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on January 21, 2010, 04:40:16 PM
Quote from: WNYHoops on January 21, 2010, 01:12:26 PM
I've been away for some time, but I want to chime into the regional ranking and possible Pool C consideration from the East Region. U of R and Fisher are always getting the publicity. Ithaca last year and Brockport and Plattsburgh in the past too have represented the East well. But I want folks to begin to take notice of schools from the "lesser" leagues in NYS that can play with all the big boys this year. More specifically Wells and SUNY IT from the NEAC and Medaille from the AMCC.

All are East Region members and should be in the discussion for top teams in the region. SUNYIT went to the NCAA's last year and nearly reached the Sweet 16. They return nearly everyone from that team and have one of the top players in the region in Dave Golembiowski. Wells is super athletic with a number of big-time players. They have beaten SUNY IT and will be a good bet to play them again in  the NEAC finals for the league's AQ.

Medaille has very quietly slipped into the Top 25 national ranking, yet get no notice on these boards. Their conference is not real strong, but they do have wins over then 9th ranked John Carroll on the road and an always tough Penn State Behrend. This is another team coming off an NCAA papearance last year nad are loaded with veteran players who understand their roles. If you are not convinced, just ask the St. John Fisher players who scrimmaged them in the early season. I have heard the MAvs had their way with the Cardinals. Keep an eye on all three of these teams heading into Feb.

Medaille is getting plenty of respect nationally. hanging in the DIII top 25 and coming in at 66 in the Massey Ratings.  And while the JCU win is a little tarnished, it wasn't at the time.  They are similar to UR in that most of their games are out of region, but I don't think that hurts them too much.  But I could be wrong

Massey has Wells at 205 - pretty much middle of the pack - and SUNYIT at 231.  Their conference is ranked last in the country by Massey.

The reason UR and Fisher "get all the publicity" is because they have been where these schools would like to some day be. 

In all honesty, I don't think you can expect a lot of AMCC or NEAC conference chatter on the E8, SUNY or Liberty League boards, until they start playing some of those schools

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 21, 2010, 11:54:45 PM
WNY Hoops I agree that Medaille deserves respect. MacDonold is a very good coach (former d-1 coach at Canisius in Buffalo) and enjoyed some real success there in years past.  He will be an excellent recruiter in WNY and will get more than his share of local talent. In many respects their game against Colgate says a lot about them.  Anytime a d-3 school can stay that close to a d-1 school that is something.  Colgate while not great is not terrible either (ala New Jersey Institute of Tech).  Wells I know nothing about & the same goes for SUNYIT (except that Golembiowski is the "real deal"!) But that being said I always root for the upstate schools! :D

P.S. Magic baits me into a comment with his "it is certain" comment - you little devil you!!! ;D  Agree with you that RPI probably has the best regional for the LL.  Personally I fully expect that a LL team will be in the rankings by the end of the season, but most likely only the league champion goes to the dance.  I don't see a repeat of SLU circumstances last year this year as a pool c bid for the championship loser. Pool bids to 6+ loss teams in the east are pretty rare I believe.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 22, 2010, 02:06:26 AM
WNYHoops,

I had written up a detailed response this afternoon to your post about Medaille, SUNYIT and Wells and was about 2 sentences from posting it when my computer crashed and I lost the entire post. So I'll try again.
Briefly, I agree that Medaille is a decent team and the reason I didn't mention them in my previous post is I was responding to "with age" and we were basically talking about the Liberty League, SUNYAC, and the E8, along with Rochester  because those were the teams that were ranked in the East Region rankings from the Pool C board at the time. I have Medaille at #23 in the Posters' Poll which I participate in and have been following them all year. Back on Dec. 30th when they beat John Carroll one of the regular posters on D3 Hoops asked me for some info on the team since he knew I was in NY State and I gave a detailed rundown of the team on the Top 25 board. The next D3Hoops poll that came out had Medaille going from 0 votes in week 4 right into the #21 spot in week 5 with 123 votes. After climbing up to #19  the next week they have since slid to the #24 spot after their loss to Pitt-Bradford. Medaille is tied with the 2nd best win percentage in the country but their strength of schedule is the lowest of the East teams that are currently ranked in the Pool C rankings. New unofficial Pool C ranking were posted on Wed. night on the Pool C board and Medaille is currently in 7th place in the East, and 44th nationally. There are only 19 Pool C bids available so they have a ways to go to be in contention for one. The voters in the Top 25 will probably drop them out of the poll should they suffer another loss because of their SOS. And as Ethelred stated that win against John Carroll doesn't look nearly as good now as it did back on Dec. 30th. If Medaille loses another couple of regular season games and doesn't win the conference tournament I don't think they'll get a Pool C bid. Playing in a conference that is ranked 42nd out of 51 is tough to overcome when the other conferences in your region are ranked 19 to 39 places higher. The NCAA will come out with their regional rankings in a couple of weeks and it will be interesting to see where Medaille is ranked, but they have a lot of teams they'll have to climb over.
SUNYIT and Wells as Ethelred pointed out play in the lowest ranked league in the country and both teams have already lost too many games to have a chance at a Pool C. While SUNYIT has beaten teams in the E8, LL, and SUNYAC, they haven't beaten any of the better teams in those leagues and the loss by Wells to Morrisville St. is a killer. I've followed SUNYIT for the past few years as I saw Golembiowski and Diloo Brown (both excellent players) play against Plattsburgh St 2 years ago.
It's also too bad there isn't an AMCC board where fans of those teams can talk up their schools. I went to the board for the NEAC conference and I posted on it a few times but not much chatter there either.  

Hopefully, Medaille and SUNYIT both win their conference tournament because they are the best teams, without a doubt, in my opinion, and the Pool C bid becomes a non-issue for them. As with age said "always root for the upstate schools."    
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: WNYHoops on January 22, 2010, 09:21:30 AM
With age and Magicman, great stuff and thanks.

I guess the point I was trying to make is while I realize this is the LL board, and most people think of Eastern Region basketball being LL, SUNYAC and Empire 8 along with the U of R ... there are a couple other teams in the region who I feel can play with any of the teams from those more "respected" conferences.

Put Medaille and SUNYIT in any conference in the state and I believe they would be in the top 2 or 3 and definitely have a shot at winning a title. The fact they play in lesser leagues hurts their reputation and skews their SOS. But schools from the "upper" leagues will not even schedule them for fear of taking a loss (and if they do get a shot it will normally be on the road).

Don't sell these teams short and they should be in the discussion when talking about the best teams in the Eastern Region. While I agree neither will get Pool C consideration should they loose in their conference tournament (although if Medaille wins out until the post-season they will have a very good ranking by the NCAA regional committee) they both have the ability to win a game or two in the NCAA's if they get the right match-up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 22, 2010, 03:32:10 PM
Quote from: WNYHoops on January 22, 2010, 09:21:30 AM
With age and Magicman, great stuff and thanks.

I guess the point I was trying to make is while I realize this is the LL board, and most people think of Eastern Region basketball being LL, SUNYAC and Empire 8 along with the U of R ... there are a couple other teams in the region who I feel can play with any of the teams from those more "respected" conferences.

Put Medaille and SUNYIT in any conference in the state and I believe they would be in the top 2 or 3 and definitely have a shot at winning a title. The fact they play in lesser leagues hurts their reputation and skews their SOS. But schools from the "upper" leagues will not even schedule them for fear of taking a loss (and if they do get a shot it will normally be on the road).

Don't sell these teams short and they should be in the discussion when talking about the best teams in the Eastern Region. While I agree neither will get Pool C consideration should they loose in their conference tournament (although if Medaille wins out until the post-season they will have a very good ranking by the NCAA regional committee) they both have the ability to win a game or two in the NCAA's if they get the right match-up.

WNYHoops,
I'll agree with you that Medaille would be competitive in the other conferences, but I think SUNYIT would be in the middle of the pack in their old conference this year. Not sure what you mean by saying schools won't schedule them and if they do it's usually on the road. SUNYIT played 3 schools from the SUNYAC, 2 games against the E8, and 2 schools from the LL. That's 7 out of 9 non-conference games against schools from the "upper leagues". 4 were at home 2 on the road and the Oneonta game was a neutral site. Wells played 2 schools from the E8 and 2 from the LL, 2 at home, 2 on the road. Medaille played and hosted Geneseo St. You can only play just so many games out of conference. Oneonta and Cortland beat SUNYIT by 21 and 17 and pretty sure 3 or 4 other SUNYAC schools would beat them as well. As I said before I think all 3 teams are decent, hope Medaille and SUNYIT win their conference, and go to the NCAA's and do some damage. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 23, 2010, 04:51:02 AM
Balanced scoring with 4 players in double figures led Clarkson to a come from behind 74-68 victory at Skidmore Friday night and moved the Golden Knights into a share of 1st place in the LL.

Clarkson was down early 18-5, after missing their 1st  nine field goal attempts. Struggling from the field and turning the ball over 10 times in the 1st half the Knights found themselves down 37-23 at the break. Fortunately, they play two halves in basketball, because as badly as they shot the rock in the opening period (9x37 fg, 1x10 3's), was a far cry from how well they knocked em down in the 2nd. They opened the half on a 16-5 run to cut the Skidmore lead to 42-39 with just over 14 minutes to play. Rey Jefferson's 3 pointer and free throw gave Clarkson it's first lead of the game at the 12:03 mark, 46-44 and after the Thoroughbreds regained the lead at 50-48, Jefferson nailed another trey to give the Knights the lead for good, 51-50. An 8-0 run extended the margin and Clarkson hit their free throws down the stretch to claim the win. The Knights were 16x25 from the field in the 2nd half (64%) and 6x10 from behind the arc (60%) which boosted their field goal total to 25x62 and 7x20 from beyond the arc. For the game they were 17-19 from the line (86.7%) and out-rebounded Skidmore 45-38.

Keith Murray led Clarkson in scoring with 13 pts (5x11 fg, 1x2 3's, 2x2 ft), all coming in the 2nd half and grabbed 6 boards as well. Jonathon Hood earned a double-double with 12 pts (4x10 fg, 4x4 ft) and 11 rebounds. Brandon Linton added 12 pts (3x11 fg, 6x8 ft) along with 6 assists. George Koduah chipped in with 10 pts (4x7 fg, 2x2 ft) and 6 boards. Rey Jefferson finished with 9 pts but 7 of them came in 1:47 when the Knights gained their 1st lead and regained the lead for good.

Skidmore's Terron Victoria was the game's leading scorer with 16 pts (8x12 fg). He also had 5 rebounds and 5 steals. Jeff Altimar was the only other Thoroughbred in double figures with 12 pts (4x11 fg, 2x6 3's, 2x2 ft). Skidmore shot 25x67 from the field and 16x20 from the line, but only 2x22 from 3 point land. That's a stat that'll usually spell defeat.

Skidmore faces another challenge Saturday afternoon as SLU  comes to town for a 4 PM game. Clarkson travels down the road to take on Union at 4 PM.

In other Friday night action Union squeaks by visiting SLU 61-60.

Hamilton in a mild upset beats visiting RPI 55-43

Hobart downs Vassar 76-55

Hey with age and buck:
It may sound crazy but it's not that far-fetched. On Saturday if Union beats Clarkson, SLU beats Skidmore, and Hamilton beats Vassar, those results, along with the winner of the Hobart- RPI game would create a 6 way tie for 1st place in the LL, all with 3-2 records. Saturday will be an interesting day!! :D ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 23, 2010, 06:18:32 AM
In the SLU-Union game the Saints were playing catch up most of the night and came up just short as Union holds on for the 61-60 win. SLU came back from largest deficit of the 1st half 24-17 to close to within 3, 34-31 at the break. After catching Union early in the 2nd and going up 37-36, the Saints once again fall behind by 7 49-42 with 12:52 remaining. An 8-0 SLU spurt regains the lead and after 2 more lead changes the Dutchmen grab the lead for good 57-53 on a Rusmir Dzanko jumper and a Joey Lokitis trey, with 7:19 to go. SLU's Andy Hoercher 3 cuts it to 1, but Dzanko and Lokitis both score while SLU misfires on 3 straight 3 point attempts and Union extends lead to 5 at 61-56. Union fails to score in the last 3:40 of the game, turning the ball over 3 times without ever getting another shot off (which usually means, you lose, in a close game). SLU's Nick Meunier hits a pair of free throws at the 2:52 mark and a basket with 46 seconds left to draw the Saints within 1, at 61-60. After each team takes a timeout the Saints get the turnover they need with 13 seconds left, but Andy Hoercher's shot for the win with 3 seconds on the clock doesn't go down. Tough loss for the Saints. Another game where they are right there at the end but can't come away with a W. Of their 9 losses, 6 of them have been by a total of 19 points and a 7th was to McDaniel 76-70. With just a little bit of luck they could easily be 11-4 or 10-5 instead of 6-9.

Freshman Kyle Miller led the Saints in scoring with 12 pts in 15 minutes on 4x7 shooting, all from behind the arc. Hoercher had 11 pts (4x8 fg, 3x5 3's) and Josh Sharlow added 10 pts (4x11 fg, 2x7 3's), 5 boards and 3 assists. Ralph Temgura chipped in with 12 rebounds, 6 pts and 6 assists.

Union's Lokitis was the games high scorer with 20 pts (8x16 fg, 4x10 3's) along with 6 rebounds. Drew Goldstein contributed a fine all around game with 13 pts (5x7 fg, 3x5 3's), 5 boards, 6 assists, and 3 steals. Kevin Donohue added 10 pts (3x9 fg, 1x4 3's, 3x3 ft). Neither team had many trips to the line (Refs probably in a hurry to get home :D) as SLU was 6x11 and Union was 4x7. SLU totals were 22x52 fg (42.3%), 10x29 3's (34.5%). Union shot 24x55 fg (43.6%) and 9x24 3's (37.5%). SLU won the battle of the boards 36 to 27 but turned the ball over 18 times to 15 for the Dutchmen.

Interesting that SLU is starting 1 senior(Josh Sharlow), 1 junior, 2 sophs, and a freshmen. Next 4 guys off the bench are the only other senior on the team (Horcher) and 3 freshmen. All four subs got 13 to 24 minutes of playing time tonight in a 1 point barnburner. This team should be in good shape for the next couple of years.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 23, 2010, 09:31:47 AM
Based on the way Clarkson is playing and the way Union is playing, I am thinking a double digit win for the Golden Knights. SLU-Skidmore, in the past, would have been fairly obvious in favor of the Saints, but I think the Thorobreds will take this one. Hamilton should beat Vassar and I'd say RPI will go over Hobart.

But the possibilities certainly are interesting magic! It does seem as though the league has some parity this season -- at least up to this point. There isn't a team running away with it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 23, 2010, 04:48:20 PM
Union up by 14 over Clarkson 39-25 at the half. Have the Golden Knights got another big comeback in them?

St Lawrence leads Skidmore 38-31 at the half.  Can 6 teams all end up 3-2 after today? Without some 2nd half comebacks it's looking like a possibility.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 23, 2010, 05:17:05 PM
SLU opens up a a 51-39 lead over Skidmore with 11:23 to play.

Union trouncing Clarkson 60-33 with 10:34 to go.

Hobart leads RPI 40-34 with 15:59 remaining.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 23, 2010, 05:42:02 PM
Final score SLU 74 Skidmore 60. There's 2 teams with 3-2 records.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 23, 2010, 05:43:27 PM
Final Union 78 Clarkson 58. Now there are 4 teams with 3-2 records.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 23, 2010, 06:27:40 PM
Hamilton beats Vassar 58 -37 and the Continentals move to 3-2 in league play.

Hobart and RPI go to overtime and RPI prevails 66-64 and is also 3-2.

Here's my quote from yesterday:

Hey with age and buck:
It may sound crazy but it's not that far-fetched. On Saturday if Union beats Clarkson, SLU beats Skidmore, and Hamilton beats Vassar, those results, along with the winner of the Hobart- RPI game would create a 6 way tie for 1st place in the LL, all with 3-2 records. Saturday will be an interesting day!!  

So, guys is that parity or what? Clarkson, SLU, Hamilton, RPI, Union, and Skidmore are all 3-2. Hobart's 2-3 and Vassar is 0-5. I guessing but I don't think there's another conference in the country, in any division, with that kind of logjam at the top   The SUNYAC is almost as bad except Brockport's double OT win over Plattsburgh (boo, hiss) last night has given them a clear lead in the conference with a 6-1 slate . Cortland and Oneonta next at 5-3 and a 4 way battle for 4th between Plattsburgh, Fredonia, Buff St. and New Paltz at 4-4. With 10 SUNYAC games left it's gonna be a war!!(I hope). Same thing in the LL. Man your battle stations !! ;D :D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 24, 2010, 05:41:24 AM
Magic    slight advantage  -  RPI, who has already taken the north trip to SLU/Clarlson, and the West trip to H&H -   lot of home games left!!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 25, 2010, 10:11:57 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on January 23, 2010, 09:31:47 AM
Based on the way Clarkson is playing and the way Union is playing, I am thinking a double digit win for the Golden Knights. SLU-Skidmore, in the past, would have been fairly obvious in favor of the Saints, but I think the Thorobreds will take this one. Hamilton should beat Vassar and I'd say RPI will go over Hobart.

But the possibilities certainly are interesting magic! It does seem as though the league has some parity this season -- at least up to this point. There isn't a team running away with it.

Just goes to show what I know. Although the way the LL has gone, I guess a 2-2 picks record isn't too bad! LOL

Perhaps the Clarkson-Skidmore tilt on Friday took too much out of both teams, as Clarkson was never in the game against Union, and St. Lawrence was able to hand Skidmore its second straight loss.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 25, 2010, 11:29:22 AM
Quote from: hopefan on January 24, 2010, 05:41:24 AM
Magic    slight advantage  -  RPI, who has already taken the north trip to SLU/Clarlson, and the West trip to H&H -   lot of home games left!!!!!

hopefan,  I can't think of one reason why you might feel that way!! ;D Seriously though, that's a good point. 9 games left, with 6 at home and of the 3 road games, you have last place Vassar. RPI just has to defend home court and the playoffs could well be in Troy this year.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 26, 2010, 02:29:25 AM
Well Magic - except for RPI running the table and losing in the championship game I think we can put "for certain"- only one LL team in the "dance" this year.  Just too much parity and too much inconsistency from all the teams. A six way tie for first in an 8 team league is ludicrous.  I am no mathmatics guru but I am pretty sure that it is impossible to have a larger tie for first after 5 weeks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 30, 2010, 12:39:10 AM
Its official- Only tournament champion goes to the d3 dance (for certain as Magicman says) with RPI's loss at Union.  There is no way a 6 loss team from this conference get a pool C bid.  That being said there could be a multitude of teams eliligible for ECAC tournament if the log jam continues.  I could see 3 or 4 teams not make the LL playoffs and be over .500 on the w & l record for the season.  Vassar providing a lot of wins for people and other teams keep beating each other. A bunch of .500 teams that go to the tiebreakers for the playoffs and the Hamilton's and Hobarts and St Lawrences and Union's snatching spots and that leaving the RPI's,Skidmore's & Clarkson's over .500 and looking for ECAC invites.  Boy do I hope I am wrong and that mathmatically that it isn't possible and that the Knights win out and prove me wrong!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 30, 2010, 01:44:26 AM
Just noticed this its a stretch but possible.  Tomorrow IF: Vassar beats Union, RPI beats Skidmore, Hobart beats Clarkson, & Hamilton beats SLU presto insanity prevails.  Its deja vu all over again (thanks Yogi) - a 6 way tie for first at 4-3 at the halfway mark of the season??!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 30, 2010, 05:16:16 AM
with age,
Yeah, I'm afraid it's turned out like I thought it would with everybody beating up up on each other. Same for the SUNYAC teams. Even the E8 is getting to be that way with Fisher losing at home tonight against Stevens Tech. If this keeps up no East team will get a Pool C. We're just going to hand our at large bids over to the other regions. ODAC in the South has 4 ranked teams. They might get 3 Pool C's from that conference alone. Middle Atlantic and West region are loaded as well. With only 19 at large bids available, if the Conference favorites get upset in their respective tournaments in those regions the East will be on the outside looking in (and we may be even if that doesn't happen). Last year the LL (RPI,SLU), and E8 (RIT, Ithaca) were 2 team conferences whille the YAC (Brockport), NEAC (SUNYIT), and the multi-region AMCC (Medaille) each had only the automatic winner. Unless some East teams run the table from here on out we're in trouble. The 4 top teams in the projected East region Pool C rankings all lost tonight, dropping us further behind the 8 ball. By the way I saw your post over on the Pool C board asking if those rankings were official. To answer your question, no they are not official. They are a projection based on the same criteria the NCAA will use when they come out with their official rankings. KnightSlappy, the poster who does this has taken over from Patrick Abegg, who passed away last spring. Patrick, using this criteria was able to predict with darn good accuracy who was going to recieve the Pool C bids. Also in reponse to the question you posed about the lack of a LL team, look at Medaille, 17-1 in region record and they are not on the list (currently sitting in the 9th spot) because of their SOS, but they've beaten some good teams and are currently #25 in the Top 25 poll. They've been ranked for the past 4 weeks and were as high as #19. It's still too early for the regional rankings to determine anything because so much can happen over the next month, but as I mentioned ealier time is running out and the East teams have to step up and prove they belong in the mix.The 1st set of official ranking will be released by the NCAA this coming Wednesday February 3rd. You can access them on or after that date by clicking on the Regional Rankings link on any D3Hoops team page right below the link to the schools website.

On another topic, My Plattsburgh St. Cardinals finally put it all together tonight and cruised over Oneonta 78-56. Up by double digits early and never looked back. Best game they played all year. I'd sure like them to be the East team that puts it all together. They've got the talent, they just need to play together as a team. With 4 solid scoring options, they need to continue to work the clock and get a better shot than some of the ones they fire up there. Tonight they did that, just hope it sticks.  Don't know where they'll end up this year but the good news is all 4 of those scoring options are back next year and I expect big things from them  With Brockport losing to Cortland we picked up a game on them. Still need some help from someone else and we can't afford any more losses but the last game of the regular season is February 20th and who do we play? You guessed it, Brockport right here in the Burgh. I just hope it's for all the marbles. In this case the marbles being the right to host the SUNYAC tournament.
     
Updated Liberty League Standings after Friday night's action. Went from a 6 way tie for 1st to ONLY a 4 way tie.

       Hamilton  40  Clarkson  53      
       Hobart  57  St. Lawrence  68      
       Union  67  RPI  53      
       Skidmore  81  Vassar  60


Clarkson      4-2  
Skidmore     4-2  
Union          4-2  
SLU             4-2
RPI              3-3  
Hamilton     3-3  
Hobart        2-4  
Vassar        0-6  

If underdogs Hamilton, Hobart, and Vassar, win on Saturday afternoon and RPI holds serve against Skidmore we'd be right back to a 6 way tie once again. Don't think that will happen this week though. I'll go out on a limb and make some guesses.

with age, I didn't see your 2nd post saying this same thing about the 6 way tie, until I posted. But we both agree, it's a stretch. Where's your guesses? ??? ;D :D

Clarkson over Hobart 64-55
SLU over Hamilton 74-66
Union over Vassar 75-63
RPI  over Skidmore 73-70
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 30, 2010, 10:14:09 AM
VERY disappointing loss for RPI vs rival Union   -  hard to figure out the results of these two teams from afar....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 30, 2010, 01:50:49 PM
Quote from: hopefan on January 30, 2010, 10:14:09 AM
VERY disappointing loss for RPI vs rival Union   -  hard to figure out the results of these two teams from afar....

hopefan,
Inconsistency has been the norm for every team in the LL this year. Just when any one  team takes a step forward they promptly go out and stumble in the next outing. Clarkson beats Rochester on the road, then Cortland, in back to back contests and follows those nice wins up with a loss to E8 celler dweller Elmira. Union beats a good Elms team(who has a win over ranked Amherst), and follows that up with a 47 pt loss to Skidmore on Union's home court. Union also has a loss to SUNY-Cobleskill a weak team in D3's weakest conference. Skidmore opens the year with a 5 game winning streak, which includes a win over NYU and proceeds to lose at HOME to a 4-13, last place in their league, Johnson St. Perennial powers, Hamilton and SLU have been up and down all year with both teams currently sporting losing records, although the Saints are starting to get their act together, having won 4 of their last 5. And your beloved RPI Red Hawks, who looked to be the class of the league just 2 weeks ago with a very good 9-2 record(and both losses were to D3 Hoops Top 25 ranked teams, MIT and Middlebury) have now dropped 3 of their last 5 to fall back into the pack. Strange happenings here in Northern NY. Crucial stretch upcoming for RPI starting tonight against Skidmore, followed by Clarkson and SLU next weekend. It's make or break time for the Red Hawks with these 3 games. At least, as you mentioned earlier, all 3 of them are at home, but so wasn't that Union game last night. And in my opinion, all three of the upcoming teams, are better than Union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 02, 2010, 11:50:57 PM
Magic - my Knights are killing me!!  I am thinking about getting to the Hobart and Hamilton games if I can.  I think they need to hear my loud voice!! I was pretty sure that the "cream" would rise to the top with the SLU guys.  The sophmores seem to be getting their legs and the guard, Josh Sharlow, is  steady and good at point.  Also it looks right now that unless Skidmore stumbles badly they will accelerate my prediction and be right in the thick of things this year.  For the Knights its this year or bust I am afraid.  They rely heavily on 3 seniors and do not have any freshman playing any substantial minutes.  It also appears that RPI is headed in the wrong direction.  It is going to be an absolute "barnburner" for that final spot.  Only SLU and Skidmore seem to be in the driver's seat right now.  The rest is a 5 way battle for 2 spots. (At this point I am throwing in the towel for Vassar).  I am in "terror" mode about the east - it could be league champs only in every conference - especially if Brockport and SJF win the tournaments.  Guess I'll have hope that I am wrong again (as I have been often)!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 03, 2010, 03:03:07 AM
St.Lawrence defeats visiting Clarkson 67-62 to retain a share of 1st place in the Liberty League to match Skidmore who also moved to 6-2 Tuesday night with an 83-77 decision over Union in Saratoga Springs.

The Saints improved their overall record to 10-9 marking the 1st time all season they have been over .500. It was their 4th win in a row and 6th out of their last 7, as this young team finally seems to be hitting their stride. 7 of their 9 losses have been in overtime (2 games) or by 4 points or less. SLU came out flying and jumped out to a 10-2 lead that quickly became a 16 point advantage 20-4 with less than 8 minutes gone in the 1st half. They reached their largest lead of the game at 37-18 and 39-20 before Clarkson hit a bucket  to go into the break up 39-22. The Golden Knights didn't fold, however, and started hitting their shots, outscoring the Saints 18-8 to cut the margin to 7 at 47-40 with 12:12 to go. SLU regained the momentum, scoring 6 straight pts and going back up by 13 a minute later. Saints maintained a double digit lead, stretching it back up to 16 with 5:24 left to play, when the Knights made one final push with a 15-2 run. After closing to within 3 at 65-62 with 49 seconds left a Clarkson 3 point attempt to tie at 42 second mark misses and Knights foul but Saints miss free throw giving Knights 1 last chance. Clarkson tries to find a 3 point shooter but Josh Sharlow intercepts the pass and fires it ahead to Terry Parham who makes the layup accounting for the final 5 point margin. Garrett Sharlow was the games high scorer as he led the Saints with 23 pts and 8 rebounds. Josh Sharlow added 10 pts, 4 rebounds. 4 assists, and 3 steals. Clarkson was led by Keith Murray with 16 pts and Felix Llanos with 13 points.  Clarkson falls to 4-4 in league play and 10-8 overall. Clarkson and travel partner SLU are both on the road this Fri and Sat at Vassar and RPI.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 03, 2010, 08:03:20 PM
The NCAA released the first set of Regional Rankings today. Here is the East Region:

East Region
1. St. John Fisher 15-4 16-4
2. Stevens 15-4 15-4
3. New York University 12-5 13-5
4. Medaille 18-1 19-1
5. Rochester 9-5 13-5
6. Nazareth 12-6 13-7

Complete rankings for all regions can be found here:

http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2010/02/03/mens-regional-rankings-feb-3rd/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 03, 2010, 11:16:00 PM
I keep forgeting about Medaille.  I truly think they would be in the pool c hunt even if they do not win their tournament.  However I can see just about all of the other bids allocated to Northeast teams that lose in tournaments late.  Could be very "slim pickings" for the east this year. ::)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 05, 2010, 10:17:39 PM
Hobart absolutely hammers visiting Union tonight 97-47. Hobart hikes Liberty League record to 4-4 and joins a logjam for the 4th and final playoff spot with Hamilton and RPI. The Statesmen are 11-8 overall. Union misses an opportunity to catch Skidmore and has sole possession of 3rd place with a 5-3 LL mark, 9-10 overall. Union travels to Hamilton on Saturday, while Hobart is hosting Skidmore. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 05, 2010, 10:35:10 PM
St Lawrence takes over sole possession of 1st place as they travel to Vassar and come away with an 82-60 win. Saints improve to 7-2 in league play and 11-9 overall. Vassar falls to 0-8, 2-17 overall.

Skidmore, tied with SLU going into this evening, travels to Hamilton and gets handled by the Continentals 64-45. Thoroughbreds drop into 2nd place with a 6-3 record, 13-7 overall. Hamilton evens their league record at 4-4, 8-10 overall, and is now tied with RPI and Hobart for 4th place. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 05, 2010, 11:04:34 PM
Clarkson visits RPI and loses another close game, falling to the Red Hawks 59-53.
With their 3rd league loss in a row the Golden Knights have tumbled into 7th place in the standings with a 4-5 league slate, 10-9 overall. RPI now stands at 4-4 in the Liberty League and 12-6 overall. An important game is on tap tomorrow afternoon in Robison Gym at 4 PM as the 1st place SLU Saints travel to Troy and try to win their 6th straight league game.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: platinumondubs on February 06, 2010, 12:00:03 AM
Robison Gym is closed.... RPI plays in ECAV now
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 06, 2010, 07:17:43 PM
Just got off the phone with old buddy Mike Griffin, coach at RPI,   after last weeks crushing losses at home, needless to say, he was one happy camper after beating Clarkson and St Lawrence this weekend.... RPI is back in it, but a tough weekend next week at Skidmore and Union....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: platinumondubs on February 06, 2010, 09:57:39 PM
RPI beats St. Lawrence today in ECAV and climbs back into the playoff discussion after a sweep of the North Country teams.   They were propelled by an all-around team effort; they have no go-to guy and depend on someone getting hot at the right time.  Griff has them playing good team defense, and they crash the offensive boards very well.  Look for them to split next weekend, probably dropping the Skidmore game, but winning at Union in front of hundreds of rowdy Engineer fans who made the short ride down Route 7.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 07, 2010, 07:09:54 AM
Results on Saturday:

RPI takes down visiting league leader SLU 66-61

Hobart hosts 2nd place Skidmore and wins 85-79

Union rebounds with a win over host Hamilton 58-40

Clarkson visits Vassar and keeps the host team winless 75-60

Updated standings through 2-6-10

1.   SLU                    7-3
2.   Skidmore             6-4
2.   Union                  6-4
4.   RPI                     5-4
4.   Hobart                 5-4
6.   Clarkson               5-5
7.   Hamilton               4-5
8.   Vassar                  0-9
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 07, 2010, 10:55:21 AM
Totally bizarre    Union loses by 50 at Hobart, then comes back to win at Hamilton easily the next afternoon...   Magicman, help!!!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 07, 2010, 01:59:06 PM
The topsy turvy LL continues, RPI sweeping the North Country teams, Hamilton winning big and then getting drilled on their home court (can't wait to see how the Continentals fare in the NESCAC next season), Skidmore continues to lose or win in streaks, Union can't decide whether they are worse than Vassar or a contender, St. Lawrence's big winning streak ends, Clarkson snapping its three-game losing streak and Hobart reeling off three straight victories. Thank goodness for the consistency of Vassar's crappiness.

Quote from: hopefan on February 07, 2010, 10:55:21 AM
Totally bizarre    Union loses by 50 at Hobart, then comes back to win at Hamilton easily the next afternoon...   Magicman, help!!!!!!

I know, right. They also had a 40-point loss to Skidmore at Union, then only lost by a handful at Skidmore this week. Completely unable to figure them out this year.

Quote from: platinumondubs on February 06, 2010, 09:57:39 PM
Look for them to split next weekend, probably dropping the Skidmore game, but winning at Union in front of hundreds of rowdy Engineer fans who made the short ride down Route 7.

Where were the rowdy Engineer fans for their home game against Union when they lost by 14?

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: platinumondubs on February 08, 2010, 08:44:35 AM
Quote
Where were the rowdy Engineer fans for their home game against Union when they lost by 14?

We were there... it was real loud.  Union had a bunch of people there too.  The refs threatened to hit RPI with a technical if the people with noisemakers kept using them.  Also, the refs complained to Griff multiple times about the 20-30 fans sitting in the stands directly behind the Union bench, because apparently you can't yell at another team in Division 3.  During this past weekend's games, the fun police came out and cordoned off the first three rows of bleachers behind both benches.  Makes me wish I went to a D1 school where enthusiasm was allowed.

The Union mothers are such babies... they kept screaming to "shut them up" and "that's unsportsmanlike," when the most that was being said was "you suck."  They should watch the game on TV if they can't handle that.

We ran into Union on one of their good days, and we played as poorly as we have all season.  It's gonna be a much different game Saturday.  RPI will win big.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 08, 2010, 09:38:12 AM
Platinum  -   As an ol time RPI player and good buddy of Griff's who now lives out in the midwest, I appreciate your support  -  your antics sound pretty much like what I see out of the 'rowdies' when I go to Wash U games here in St Louis.   Keep up the good work....  and hey, post more often.... I love hearing what's going on with RPI hoops.....    good luck this weekend....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 08, 2010, 03:39:50 PM
Quote from: platinumondubs on February 08, 2010, 08:44:35 AM
Quote
Where were the rowdy Engineer fans for their home game against Union when they lost by 14?

We were there... it was real loud.  Union had a bunch of people there too.  The refs threatened to hit RPI with a technical if the people with noisemakers kept using them.  Also, the refs complained to Griff multiple times about the 20-30 fans sitting in the stands directly behind the Union bench, because apparently you can't yell at another team in Division 3.  During this past weekend's games, the fun police came out and cordoned off the first three rows of bleachers behind both benches.  Makes me wish I went to a D1 school where enthusiasm was allowed.

The Union mothers are such babies... they kept screaming to "shut them up" and "that's unsportsmanlike," when the most that was being said was "you suck."  They should watch the game on TV if they can't handle that.

We ran into Union on one of their good days, and we played as poorly as we have all season.  It's gonna be a much different game Saturday.  RPI will win big.

Sounds like it will be a good atmosphere, and that the last game had that too. My question had more to do with the fact you seemed to think because the fans will be traveling to Union that will make the difference. Obviously, since you were there for the home game, there is no evidence that fan support correlates with a win.

But, I do support fans right to cheer on their team while insulting the opponent. It seems like more and more these D-III schools have to police things to the point of taking the fun away from the fans. Interesting note about the Union moms, there was a group of St. Lawrence parents complaining about fans at their game at Union when a group of Union alums were yelling at the Saints players and Downs. They were asked to be quiet. Ridiculous.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 10, 2010, 12:19:54 AM
If anybody has the "gall" to go 2 & 0 this weekend I think they are in.   I am putting my money on Hobart.  They seem to be playing very good ball and "holding serve" on their home court. With that prediction I may be putting the "Knights" on the outside looking in.  Hamilton almost has to go 2 & 0 to stay in and I am afraid they will lose at least one, but in this league, this year, nothing is for certain except that you can "stick a fork" in Vassar (they are well done).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2010, 01:25:00 AM
Hobart tops visiting Hamilton 81-67. Statesmen place 5 guys in double figures led by Tim Llewellyn's 17 points. Mark Bruce follows with 13, Matt Pebole has 12 Rezin Davis adds 11 and Stefan Thompson chips in with 10. Hamilton's Patrick Sullivan is the game's high scorer and has a double-double with 20 pts and 10 rebounds. Ken Click adds 16, followed by Ephraim McDowell and Dayne Harris with 11 each.

Hobart and travel partner Hamilton will host Clarkson and St. Lawrence this Friday and Saturday with the regular season crown and all 4 playoff berths still up for grabs among every team but Vassar who has been eliminated from post season play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2010, 11:44:28 PM
New Regional Rankings were released earlier today. Here's the East Region:

Through games of Sunday Feb. 7th 2010

East Region: In-Region Record followed by Overall Record
1. St. John Fisher 17-4 18-4
2. Stevens 16-4 16-4
3. Medaille 19-2 20-2
4. Oneonta State 15-5 16-5
5. New York University 13-6 14-6
6. Nazareth 14-6 15-7

For a complete list of all the regions click on this D3Hoops link:

http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 'gro on February 11, 2010, 10:15:52 AM
Quote from: platinumondubs on February 08, 2010, 08:44:35 AM
Quote
Where were the rowdy Engineer fans for their home game against Union when they lost by 14?

We were there... it was real loud.  Union had a bunch of people there too.  The refs threatened to hit RPI with a technical if the people with noisemakers kept using them.  Also, the refs complained to Griff multiple times about the 20-30 fans sitting in the stands directly behind the Union bench, because apparently you can't yell at another team in Division 3.  During this past weekend's games, the fun police came out and cordoned off the first three rows of bleachers behind both benches.  Makes me wish I went to a D1 school where enthusiasm was allowed.

The Union mothers are such babies... they kept screaming to "shut them up" and "that's unsportsmanlike," when the most that was being said was "you suck."  They should watch the game on TV if they can't handle that.

We ran into Union on one of their good days, and we played as poorly as we have all season.  It's gonna be a much different game Saturday.  RPI will win big.

I don't lurk or post in here (LL Football is the home) but I have to laugh at the comment abount Union player's moms... it was a crybaby union mom that got myself and friends kicked out of ghetto-pettos (geppettoes bar) after RPI beat Union in football a few years ago. Was with a mixed group of RPI and Union alums, and all behaving ourselves, but some of us had the gall to wear RPI clothing to a "Union party". Waaaaa, go fill up your volvo's gas tank on tears.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 11, 2010, 01:04:05 PM
Wish the football room boys would rally and give old bud Griff some support over here!!!!

I get a real kick out of reading your stuff in the football room!!!

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: platinumondubs on February 12, 2010, 11:07:59 PM
RPI loses at Skidmore 92-80 after Skidmore shots 55% from 3 PT.  The refs were horrible both ways, calling 21 fouls on both teams.  They must have bet the over a la Tim Donaghy.  An especially egregious call at the end of the first half when Skidmore clearly carried the ball out of bounds with 1.2 seconds remaining.  One of the zebras swallowed his whistle and time expired.  Griff was justifiably upset.

Game was close at half, but only because RPI had the big advantage in FTs in the first (17 versus 4).

Skidmore's entire offense is drive and kick to Lowry or Altimar.  They won't take it in the paint against RPI's Danny Martin (who should win ROY).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 13, 2010, 05:17:24 AM
Once again the Liberty League teams struggle to win a road game as all 4 visiting squads go down to defeat.

St. Lawrence loses at Hamilton 65-60. Hamilton's Pat Sullivan with scoring honors as he has 21 pts on 8 of 12 shooting from the field. E McDowell added 15 pts. Garrett Sharlow led the Saints just missing a double-double with 15 pts and 9 rebounds. Nick Meunier added 14 pts and Ralph Temgoua chipped in with 13

Clarkson loses at Hobart 85-65. Matt Pebole was the games high scorer with 20 pts and came within 1 rebound of a double-double as he snagged 9 boards. Stefan Thompson followed with 17 pts and Mark Bruce added 12 for the Statesmen. Clarkson scoring leader was Rey Jefferson who came off the bench and hit for 19 pts. Elson Pickering was next with 14 pts and now is only 2 pts shy of 1000 for his career. Jonathan Hood had 10 pts and 7 rebounds.

Union drops visiting Vassar College 67-57. Joey Lokitis had 22 points to lead all scorers, followed by Drew Goldstein with 13 and Matt Covucci with 10. Vassar scoring had Casey Black with 20 pts and Caleb McGraw added 17.

RPI visits Skidmore and falls 92-80. Brian Lowry came off the bench and led a group of four Skidmore players in double figures with 16 points. Jeff Altimar finished with 13 points, while Jon Douglas  scored 10 and Gerard O'Shea added 11 points. The Red Hawks were led by Tim Rupp with 16 points and eight rebounds. Ricky Philatre followed with 12 points and Jeremy Bull added 11.

We're almost where we were a few weeks ago when 6 teams were tied for the lead. Now there's only a 4 way tie for 1st between SLU, Skidmore, Union, and Hobart, all with 7-4 records with 3 games left to play. The possibility exists of a 5 way tie heading into the final game of the season and ending up with a 4 way tie when it's all said and done. What a long strange trip it's been!! Hard to bet against the home teams tomorrow either. Maybe RPI can buck the trend with a win at Union.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: platinumondubs on February 13, 2010, 06:54:15 PM
Well Union is officially a bunch of a-holes.  They kicked two RPI fans out today for rooting for RPI.  Unbelievable.

I'd give you the game analysis, but I was one of the guilty fans.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 14, 2010, 04:39:06 AM
Results from Saturday's Liberty League action.

St. Lawrence wins on the road against Hobart 105-98.

Clarkson travels to Hamilton and comes away with a much needed victory 64-52 to keep their playoff hopes alive.

Union edges visiting RPI 64-59.

Skidmore handles visiting Vassar 74-61.

After Saturday's results three teams are tied for top spot. St. Lawrence, Skidmore, and Union are all 8-4. SLU appears to be in the best position as both the other 2 teams have to travel north next weekend to take on the Saints and Clarkson. SLU is the only team that has clinched a playoff berth. With today's loss Hamilton is out of the playoff picture. If either Union or Skidmore go winless in their final 2 games it's possible that they could go from 1st to 5th and miss the playoffs. Clarkson, Hobart and RPI are still alive for a playoff spot. Clarkson and RPI need to win out to have any chance and still may need help. If Hobart wins their final 2 games they're in. RPI with a Tuesday game at Vassar needs to take care of business there before facing Hobart on Friday.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 14, 2010, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: platinumondubs on February 13, 2010, 06:54:15 PM
Well Union is officially a bunch of a-holes.  They kicked two RPI fans out today for rooting for RPI.  Unbelievable.

I'd give you the game analysis, but I was one of the guilty fans.


Platinum, not that this will make you feel any better, but I witnessed some Union basketball alums nearly get kicked out of the gym during the Union-Clarkson game -- at Union -- because the Clarkson parents were complaining. So, probably the only thing that saved them was the fact they were potential donors, that's kind of how Union rolls. And I know they -- and most likely you guys -- weren't even close to the kind of abuse that Hamilton students rain down upon opponents, the opposing coaches and their fans.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: platinumondubs on February 16, 2010, 10:45:33 PM
RPI smacked Vassar real hard

Playoff scenarios, anyone?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hoopmang7 on February 17, 2010, 02:35:09 PM
anyone have any predictions on coach, player, rookie of the year and all conference teams?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 17, 2010, 05:33:00 PM
New NCAA Regional Rankings for games through 2-14-10.
Here is the East Region:

East Region     In-Region Record   Overall Record
1. St. John Fisher 18-4 19-4
2. Medaille 20-2 21-2
3. Oneonta State 17-5 18-5
4. Stevens Institute 17-5 17-5
5. New York University 14-7 15-7
6. Plattsburgh State 13-6 15-7

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: platinumondubs on February 17, 2010, 06:16:55 PM
Here's my list:
COY - Luke Flockerzi, Skidmore
ROY - Stefan Thompson, Hobart
POY - Joey Lokitis, Union
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 18, 2010, 12:39:13 AM
Went to the Hamilton vs Clarkson game and I can safely say that you are correct Buck about the Hamilton students "giving it" to Ref's and opposing players.  They stand under the basket at one end of the court with a deer head and just roll with it.  It really was entertaining!  I'm a "pretty good heckler" against the refs but I am not even close to being in their league!! Hamilton done in by 2 for 20 from 3 point land and very good interior passing by the Knights.  On the last weekend of the season I believe 4 teams still have a chance at the league title (just insanity). And 6 have a shot at a playoff spot.  (Maybe even 7 as I am not sure of the tie breaks if Hamilton, RPI & Hobart all finish at 7-7 - which I believe is possible if Hobart loses both to RPI & Vassar, RPI loses to Hamilton, & Hamilton also beats Vassar). It might really complicate things if Clarkson ends up at 7 & 7 too by splitting this weekends games with Skidmore and Union.  I am not bright enough to figure it all out. Bottom line is Vassar victory over Hobart is pretty unlikely.  Vassar probably ready to "pack it in" but this season one never knows.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 19, 2010, 06:38:17 PM
Quote from: platinumondubs on February 17, 2010, 06:16:55 PM
Here's my list:
COY - Luke Flockerzi, Skidmore
ROY - Stefan Thompson, Hobart
POY - Joey Lokitis, Union

I'd definitely have to agree on Flockerzi, last to currently first. That's hard to beat.

The POY discussion should probably also include Pebole from Hobart. I know he's a sophomore and Lokitis is a senior, but their stats are similar in terms of scoring and rebounding. Lokitis has a better assist average, and probably has the edge since Union has a better record -- before this weekend -- and the fact he's a guard but is only 0.3 rebounds and 0.4 points per game (in league) behind Pebole.

ROY, I think Thompson is the best choice. The only other name I could think of is Union's Donohue with his recent string of good performances, but he started out slow and his numbers aren't that close to Thompson's.

Quote from: platinumondubs on February 12, 2010, 11:07:59 PM

Skidmore's entire offense is drive and kick to Lowry or Altimar.  They won't take it in the paint against RPI's Danny Martin (who should win ROY).

I'm sorry, but Martin shouldn't even be in the conversation. 3.6 point and 3.2 rebounds per game in league play (4.8 ppg and 3.5 rpg overall) doesn't get you in the conversation. This isn't a slam to RPI or Martin's ability either, just an observation. Also, he's averaging 11.4 minutes per game (9th on the team for league play, 10th overall), so he's obviously little more than a quick-hit space filler.

In comparison, Hobart's Thompson has started 22 of their 23 games, is averaging 28.8 minutes per game, 15.5 points, 3.2 assists and 3.0 rebounds overall. In conference play, he's averaging 14.8 ppg and 3.9 apg.

Even Donohue, who I think doesn't stand up to Thompson has better numbers than Martin. He's started 5 of 12 league games, 25.1 minutes per game, 12.7 ppg, 3.9 rpg and 1.7 apg.

Quote from: with age came? on February 18, 2010, 12:39:13 AM
Went to the Hamilton vs Clarkson game and I can safely say that you are correct Buck about the Hamilton students "giving it" to Ref's and opposing players.  They stand under the basket at one end of the court with a deer head and just roll with it.  It really was entertaining!  I'm a "pretty good heckler" against the refs but I am not even close to being in their league!!

Hamilton has always been that way, it's probably been tamed down a bit in recent years, and the atmosphere is much more exciting for it. I'm tired of the PC BS these days. Schools like Union must not really care if their teams get crowds, because they do their best to clamp down on any sort of fun students might have at the games. I'm not saying it's necessary to let students throw F-bombs around, but to let them heckle the opposing team and coach, or referees won't hurt anything. That's the beauty of playing at home, or it should be, to have an advantage because of the fans. Or for opposing teams to travel well, to try and mitigate the home court advantage.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 19, 2010, 10:31:24 PM
Tonight's game results:

St. Lawrence defeats visiting Skidmore 83-65 and takes over sole possession of 1st place.

Hobart downs host RPI 75-67 and ends the Red Hawks' chances for the conference tournament.

Clarkson keeps their playoff hopes alive as they down visiting Union 68- 53

Hamilton beats host Vassar 71-53 in a game that had no bearing on tournament play.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 20, 2010, 12:32:37 AM
Buck - I have only been to a couple of hoop games at Union so I can not speak from vast experience but I did not see an overt amount of "politeness" or "PC" and though I was never looking for ejections - I certainly never saw any???  Went to about a 100 Volleyball games there and I always felt that the crowds were as loud or louder than most places....I can say that I have never been "spoken to" at any Union contest and I have definitely been addressed at other venues- particularly over my "kid gloves" handling of the refs :D.  Does anyone know the tie-breakers for the LL?  Know that SLU is now in and I believe the #1 seed.  Unless Hobart stumbles badly and loses to Vassar they are in.  Skidmore vs Clarkson is huge tomorrow.  If Skidmore wins they are in.  If Union wins vs SLU they are in.  However if Clarkson wins and Union loses to SLU it leaves Union, Clarkson & Skidmore at 8-6.  Clarkson would own 2 wins vs Skidmore.  Skidmore would own 2 wins over Union & Clarkson and Union would have split. I am assuming that head to head would be the first tie breaker but it might be something else (like victory over the highest seed) in a 3 way tie.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 20, 2010, 01:51:32 AM
with age,
I think you are correct if it is a 2 team tie. Head to head comes first and then how you fared against the top seed, then the 2nd seed and so on. I believe a 3 team tie would be how you fared against the other 2 teams.

St. Lawrence is in and I think you have to assume that Hobart is in as well. Vassar hasn't been within single digits of a win in 22 straight games. Don't see how tomorrow is any different against Hobart.

So that leaves Clarkson, Union and Skidmore fighting for 2 spots. Clarkson has to win or their done. If they do win then both Clarkson and Skidmore finish at 8-6. If Union wins they are 9-5 and are in. That would leave Clarkson fighting Skidmore for the 4th seed and Clarkson wins because of their 2-0 head to head record against Skidmore.

If Clarkson beats Skidmore and Union loses to SLU, you would then have a 3 way tie and then you compare each team's overall head to head record against the other 2. Clarkson would be 3-1 against Skidmore and Union, Skidmore would be 2-2 against Clarkson and Union, and Union would be 1-3 against Clarkson and Skidmore. Clarkson would then be awarded the 3rd seed. Now Skidmore and Union would fight it out for the 4th seed and would revert back to a tiebreaker for 2 teams which would be head to head and since Skidmore beat Union twice they would be the 4th seed and Union would be out.

I'm not 100% positive that this is how it's done in the Liberty League. I think it is but I may be wrong. I went to the LL home page and checked every link I could and didn't find the league handbook which would explain the tiebreakers. This is how it's done in a number of leagues though.  Good luck tomorrow afternoon against Skidmore. I'll be rooting for you. As I'm sure you know, I'll be taking in  the Plattsburgh-Brockport game tomorrow. I thought it was a showdown for all the marbles between us, but Potsdam's big upset tonight over Port means that Oneonta will probably be glued to the Live Stats on Plattsburgh's website praying for a Golden Eagle win, so they can claim the top seed.  The last 3 times Brockport and Plattsburgh have played its went to overtime. Don't want that to happen on Sat. afternoon. I'd like nothing better that to go from next to last,  last year, to first place this year. And I really want to see 3 extra games right here in Plattsburgh.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: platinumondubs on February 20, 2010, 06:20:45 PM
TIM RUPP NAILS A 3 AT THE BUZZER TO BEAT HAMILTON AND SECURE A 7-7 MARK FOR RPI IN LEAGUE PLAY!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 20, 2010, 06:39:49 PM
St.Lawrence secures the top seed in the playoffs with an 89-73 win over visiting Union. Saints go to 10-4 and will host the Liberty League tournament next Friday and Saturday.

Hobart defeats host Vassar 79-61 and secures the 2nd seed.

Clarkson falls to visiting Skidmore 71-57 and loses the chance to win a berth in the LL tournament. With the win Skidmore secures the 3rd seed in the tournament with a 9-5 conference record and will face off against Hobart in the 1st game at St. Lawrence next Friday. Union despite losing today ends up at 8-6 to wrap up the 4th seed and will face SLU Friday in Canton.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 21, 2010, 01:40:19 AM
Hamilton, picked to finish second with two first place votes, ends its season 6-8 in LL play, 10-14 overall. Wow! Think the NESCAC schools are getting excited about the Conts coming?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 21, 2010, 02:33:34 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 21, 2010, 01:40:19 AM
Hamilton, picked to finish second with two first place votes, ends its season 6-8 in LL play, 10-14 overall. Wow! Think the NESCAC schools are getting excited about the Conts coming?
buck,
Is Hamilton's move to the NESCAC going to occur next year? I thought RIT was joining the Liberty League for next season, but over on the E8 board there was an article stating they had 1 more year in the E8, 2010-2011, and then would join the LL. And when is Bard coming?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 21, 2010, 07:06:54 PM
Plagued by inconsistency all season my "Knights" do it again splitting the weekend games and thereby ending their season.  Very difficult to take as they should be better than that.  4 seniors graduate so next season will be even tougher I am afraid.  Skidmore's climb continues as I predicted a long time ago - they did what they had to do - beat Clarkson on its home court on senior night.  My hat is off to them.  3 of last years playoff teams (RPI, Hamilton, & Clarkson) on the outside looking in. As far as Hamilton leaving- I think they would have been about the same place over in the NESCAC - Williams & Middlebury are clearly the superior teams over there and to a lesser extent Colby but the rest were at about Hamilton's speed.  Hamilton will be competitive but will not enjoy the success they had in the Liberty League.  However here in the LL believe me we can not wait for Bard to come aboard.  Number one I love Raptormania and he will be a welcome addition to the board and I doubt at least immediately the Bard team will provide as much competition as Hamilton has in the past.  RIT I think will be a real contender in the league when they join but I still do not understand their bolting from the E-8 (or nine) or whatever number.  So many schools right down the road that create wonderful rivalaries, it just has to be for the hockey, but as fromafar says what do I know?.... ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 22, 2010, 02:54:16 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 21, 2010, 02:33:34 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 21, 2010, 01:40:19 AM
Hamilton, picked to finish second with two first place votes, ends its season 6-8 in LL play, 10-14 overall. Wow! Think the NESCAC schools are getting excited about the Conts coming?
buck,
Is Hamilton's move to the NESCAC going to occur next year? I thought RIT was joining the Liberty League for next season, but over on the E8 board there was an article stating they had 1 more year in the E8, 2010-2011, and then would join the LL. And when is Bard coming?

I also thought the change was coming next season, but apparently it isn't happening until the 2011-2012 season, so there will be one more year of the current configuration.

Also, does anyone else think they should add or cut one more team? I mean, an odd number of teams has been in place for the E8 over the last couple years, but the schedule has been screwy. For example, the last weekend of the season this year featured games on Friday and Sunday ... but none on Saturday. I know there is some travel during the school week, particularly during non-conference play, but once the league season starts it seems like a much better plan to only have two weekday games -- against your travel partner -- and play Friday-Saturday slates.

It also looks like RPI, Skidmore or Union would be the odd team out. These three are all close to each other, and Skidmore and Union have been travel partners. But, RPI has traveled with Vassar, and hour and a half away. However, with Bard joining, they would likely travel with Vassar. And Hobart loses its travel partner in Hamilton, but they are the closest ones to RIT, so they would probably pair up.

I don't know, it seems like the LL kind of goofed things up with the new members.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 22, 2010, 03:01:48 PM
Quote from: with age came? on February 21, 2010, 07:06:54 PM
RIT I think will be a real contender in the league when they join but I still do not understand their bolting from the E-8 (or nine) or whatever number.  So many schools right down the road that create wonderful rivalaries, it just has to be for the hockey, but as fromafar says what do I know?.... ;D

There is no Liberty League hockey, is there? I couldn't find any hockey (other than field hockey) listed on the LL Web site. I know Union, RPI, St. Lawrence and Clarkson all play in the ECAC.

Nonetheless, I also can't understand this move. Perhaps its so they can get away from Fisher and Ithaca in the E8.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 23, 2010, 12:05:30 PM
RPI fans or players  -  how about contacting the RPI SID and get the game winning shot over Hamilton on the Buzzer Beater page of this site   -  this midwest alum would sure like to see it....
Thanks.....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: platinumondubs on February 23, 2010, 08:14:05 PM
It's up now
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 24, 2010, 02:56:09 PM
+1 platinum   I wouldn't have noticed it because the Wisconsin shot is now on the front page   -  What a great play  -  thanks a million!!!!

For anyone else, the shot that beat Hamilton is up, but not on front page  -  go to Buzzer Beater section on right hand side of front page   -  it's in there.....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: platinumondubs on February 24, 2010, 08:38:01 PM
I like Hobart and SLU to win this weekend, and Hobart to win the championship.  Union are frauds, and Skidmore lives and dies by the three.

Hobart has three guys that would start for any team in the conference in Pebole, Bruce, and Llewellyn, and Thompson is no slouch either.

They could easily be 10-4, but the rook' missed a layup at the buzzer when they played RPI and they ultimately lost in OT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 24, 2010, 11:43:33 PM
Final NCAA Regional Rankings have been released. St John Fisher is ranked #1 for the 4th straight week. Plattsburgh St. is the biggest mover going from 6th place into 2nd. Ithaca not ranked in the last poll moves into 4th place. Stevens is the big loser as they drop out of the rankings. Medaille goes from 2nd to 5th.

East Region    In-Region Record    Overall Record
1.    St. John Fisher    20-4    21-4
2.    Plattsburgh State    17-6    18-7
3.    Oneonta State    19-5    20-5
4.    Ithaca    15-6    18-7
5.    Medaille    20-4    21-4
6.    New York University    15-8    16-8
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 25, 2010, 08:51:45 PM
Well, the speculation is over, the Liberty League awards are out:

2010 Liberty League Player of the Year --- Josh Sharlow   St. Lawrence, Senior Guard

A unanimous choice as Liberty League Player of the Year, Sharlow led the Saints to a 10-4 record in Liberty League play and their third consecutive regular season title. He ranks second overall in the Liberty League in assists, third in assist/turnover ratio, and fourth in steals. The 2007 Liberty League Rookie of the Year, Sharlow was a second team selection in 2008, a first team selection in 2009, and is a unanimous first team selection in 2010.


2010 Liberty League Rookie of the Year --- Stefan Thompson   Hobart, Guard

Thompson was a unanimous choice as Liberty League Rookie of the Year, having broken the Hobart record for points in a season as a first-year. He ranks third overall in the Liberty League in field goal percentage and free throw percentage, fourth in scoring, sixth in assists, and 12th in steals. An eight-time selection as Liberty League Rookie of the Week, he hit double figures in scoring in 19 of Hobart's 25 games.


2010 Liberty League Coaching Staff of the Year --- Izzi Metz   Hobart

Metz led the Statesmen to a 16-9 overall record, the program's best regular season record since 2004-05. The 16 wins is the third most in program history. Among those wins is a triumph over East Region #1 St. John Fisher. His Hobart squad also made the Liberty League Tournament for the first time since 2004-05, posting a 9-5 conference mark and tying for second place. The Statesmen finished second in the League in scoring offense, scoring margin, 3FG% defense, steals, turnover margin, and offensive rebounds. Metz is assisted by Russ Phillips, Dennis Pysnack, and Carl Wenzel.


2010 Liberty League First Team
G Jeff Altimar  Skidmore JR Medfield, MA
G Joey Lokitis *  Union SR Norton, MA
F Matt Pebole *  Hobart SO Little Silver, NJ
G Josh Sharlow *  St. Lawrence SR Norwood, NY
F Pat Sullivan  Hamilton SO Madison, NJ
* Unanimous Selection

2010 Liberty League Second Team
F Jon Douglas  Skidmore SR Amherst, MA
F Ricky Philatre  Rensselaer SR Randolph, MA
F Elson Pickering  Clarkson SR Brooklyn, NY
F Garrett Sharlow  St. Lawrence SO Massena, NY
G Stefan Thompson  Hobart FR Syracuse, NY


Honorable Mention: Matt Covucci F (Union), Drew Goldstein G (Union), Brandon Linton G (Clarkson), Tim Llewellyn G (Hobart), Caleb McGraw G (Vassar), Ralph Temgoua G (St. Lawrence)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: platinumondubs on February 25, 2010, 09:45:43 PM
Sharlow?!?!  Unanimously?!?!?

I guess I don't have a vote for a reason.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 25, 2010, 11:39:35 PM
Going purely by their numbers, you could have made a case for Garrett Sharlow or Ralph Temgoua, their stats were about the same as Josh Sharlow. Garrett and Ralph had more rebounds per game, Josh had more assists, but not by that much more than Ralph and they scored the same amount of points per game. Garrett was the team's leading scorer.

Obviously they picked someone from the team with the best record, but not sure why Josh got the call over the other two. Perhaps because he's a senior.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: FISHERMAN on February 26, 2010, 01:03:21 AM
I'm hoping to start up a website in a few weeks time........www.firetobinanderson.com.......hope all you disapointed Ham-Tech grads will check it out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 26, 2010, 01:18:03 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 25, 2010, 11:39:35 PM
Going purely by their numbers, you could have made a case for Garrett Sharlow or Ralph Temgoua, their stats were about the same as Josh Sharlow. Garrett and Ralph had more rebounds per game, Josh had more assists, but not by that much more than Ralph and they scored the same amount of points per game. Garrett was the team's leading scorer.

Obviously they picked someone from the team with the best record, but not sure why Josh got the call over the other two. Perhaps because he's a senior.

buck,
I agree with you, but also because of his 4 year record of excellence. The SLU offense has been run by him for the past 3 years. In his years at St. Lawrence, the Saints have always had a number of scoring options, so he wasn't going to have a conference topping points per game average. He beat you in a number of ways, but his leadership, hustle, and hard nosed play went a long way in making the Saints winners over the past 3 years.
Congratulations to him, to all the players on the LL honors list, and Coach Metz for their well deserved awards.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 26, 2010, 09:28:48 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 26, 2010, 01:18:03 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 25, 2010, 11:39:35 PM
Going purely by their numbers, you could have made a case for Garrett Sharlow or Ralph Temgoua, their stats were about the same as Josh Sharlow. Garrett and Ralph had more rebounds per game, Josh had more assists, but not by that much more than Ralph and they scored the same amount of points per game. Garrett was the team's leading scorer.

Obviously they picked someone from the team with the best record, but not sure why Josh got the call over the other two. Perhaps because he's a senior.

buck,
I agree with you, but also because of his 4 year record of excellence. The SLU offense has been run by him for the past 3 years. In his years at St. Lawrence, the Saints have always had a number of scoring options, so he wasn't going to have a conference topping points per game average. He beat you in a number of ways, but his leadership, hustle, and hard nosed play went a long way in making the Saints winners over the past 3 years.
Congratulations to him, to all the players on the LL honors list, and Coach Metz for their well deserved awards.

Magic, I understand what you're saying, but shouldn't the Player of the Year be based on the efforts of the current year. Not saying that his abilities this season should preclude him, but this year's award shouldn't be based on what he's done in the past three seasons. I don't really have a problem with him winning it, I just hope it was based on what he's meant to St. Lawrence this season not in the past.

As for the coach pick, I really am scratching my head about this one. Yes, Hobart had a good season, an improvement over last year's squad and Metz has done a good job in his time at Hobart. But Skidmore had the bigger turnaround from last season and they have identical record to Hobart (both conference and overall).

Hobart, in the last three years was 7-7 LL, 12-13 overall (2007-08 season, tied for fourth but missed playoffs due to tiebreaker); 5-9 LL, 8-17 overall (2008-09 season, tied for sixth) and 9-5 LL, 16-9 overall this season.

Skidmore was 1-13 LL, 6-19 overall (2007-08 season, finished last); 3-11 LL, 8-17 overall (2008-09 season, finished last), and 9-5 LL, 16-9 overall this season, the same as Hobart.

The only difference this season is Skidmore is seeded second, by virtue of tiebreaker, and Hobart is the third seed. They split this season, Skidmore winning by 15 at home and Hobart winning by 6 at home.

I don't know, it just seems like Skidmore's guy deserved it more
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 27, 2010, 01:31:33 AM
I always liked Sharlow as a point guard and I am happy to see him get the award.  I think he has been the engine for that SLU team for years. Pushes the ball on the break, playing lock down defense, truly providing the intangibles (and non-stat sheet things that make a winning team go).  That being said too often people think they can decide who is the POY from league statistics and I for one am glad that those who voted did not.  I do question Metz over Flockerzi but my guess is that Hobart's strong finish (they have won 8 of their last nine games) and their early season win over #22 St John Fisher on Fisher's home court may have tipped the scales.  ROY seems to have been a foregone conclusion and justified also.  Thompson was a tremendous force. My congratulations to all recipients.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 27, 2010, 02:24:17 AM
Tough call on Saturday afternoon's game pitting St. Lawrence against Hobart. I picked the Saints to win the conference at the beginning of the year and I'm going to stick with them to the end. After starting the season 4-8 and losing a lot of close games they have finished 11-3 and in the process have learned how to win those close ones. It took a while for this team to get it together with all the changes the starting line-up went through after losing the talent they did from last year. Hobart has also finished well winning 8 of their last 9 but that one loss was to the Saints and I think the home court will provibe the Scarlet and Brown with the edge. Saints win in a thriller 78-75.  
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 27, 2010, 02:33:36 AM
I also would like to see the Saints win but boy in recent years their luck at home in championship & tournament games against teams they should beat has not been to good.  (see Clarkson & RPI) That being said SLU over Hobart in a barn burner 82-82 in ot!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 27, 2010, 03:20:06 AM
Quote from: with age came? on February 27, 2010, 02:33:36 AM
I also would like to see the Saints win but boy in recent years their luck at home in championship & tournament games against teams they should beat has not been to good.  (see Clarkson & RPI) That being said SLU over Hobart in a barn burner 82-82 in ot!

Third times a charm?   Three strikes and you're out? I think Josh Sharlow wants to go out with a Liberty League Championship to go along with his Player of the Year award. At least that's what I'm hoping for.

with age , Is that a hedge on your part?   82-82 ??? ??? Or was the barn burner so hot it burned down the barn before the final tie breaking shot could take place?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 27, 2010, 01:28:17 PM
buck,
No big deal and it didn't really make a difference because they played at SLU but   Hobart was the #2 seed and Skidmore was the #3 seed this year. And just maybe that Coach of the Year voting was justified last night when Hobart took the rubber match from Skidmore on a neutral court. Just a thought as I don't have an allegiance to either team. As "with age" stated Hobart was the better finishing team and the victory over Fisher, the region's top ranked team all season long, and the only East team to crack the D3Hoops Top 25 poll (currently #22) certainly helped. Skidmore on several occassions had the opportunity to seize control of 1st place in the standings and failed to do so. Most notably back to back home losses to SLU and Clarkson after starting out 3-0 in league play and then back to back road losses to Hamilton and Hobart two weeks later after they again had moved back into the lead. Hobart, on the other hand had to overcome a poor 2-4 start, that didn't leave them much wiggle room to make the conference tourney and to their credit they did so.       
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 27, 2010, 01:47:34 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 27, 2010, 01:28:17 PM
buck,
No big deal and it didn't really make a difference because they played at SLU but   Hobart was the #2 seed and Skidmore was the #3 seed this year. And just maybe that Coach of the Year voting was justified last night when Hobart took the rubber match from Skidmore on a neutral court. Just a thought as I don't have an allegiance to either team.  

I guess the LL site had the seedings wrong, that's where I got it from.

Metz certainly got the better of Flockerzi last night, and their finish was pretty impressive. I was just using some historical perspective when looking at COY award, about the only one of them that should take the previous year into account.


I also have no allegiance to either team. I do think that SLU will be too much for Hobart this ear, hell Temgoua was their best player last night, although Horcherer and Josh Sharlow did come in close behind him. But Garrett Sharlow only had six points, the Saints just ave so many weapons.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 27, 2010, 02:17:33 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 27, 2010, 01:47:34 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 27, 2010, 01:28:17 PM
buck,
No big deal and it didn't really make a difference because they played at SLU but   Hobart was the #2 seed and Skidmore was the #3 seed this year. And just maybe that Coach of the Year voting was justified last night when Hobart took the rubber match from Skidmore on a neutral court. Just a thought as I don't have an allegiance to either team.  

I guess the LL site had the seedings wrong, that's where I got it from.

Metz certainly got the better of Flockerzi last night, and their finish was pretty impressive. I was just using some historical perspective when looking at COY award, about the only one of them that should take the previous year into account.


I also have no allegiance to either team. I do think that SLU will be too much for Hobart this ear, hell Temgoua was their best player last night, although Horcherer and Josh Sharlow did come in close behind him. But Garrett Sharlow only had six points, the Saints just ave so many weapons.

buck,
You're right they do have Skidmore as the #2 seed. I got it from D3Hoops scoreboard which listed Skidmore at Hobart and the lower seed is always listed as the visitor on a neutral court. It looks like the tiebreaker went in Skidmore's favor because RPI won the tiebreaker over Clarkson for 5th place. RPI and Clarkson split their head to head matchups but RPI split with SLU while Clarkson went 0-2 against the Saints. Then Skidmore won over Hobart because both Hobart and Skidmore were swept by SLU, they both swept Union, and Skidmore was 2-0 against RPI while Hobart was 1-1. If Clarkson had won the tiebreaker over RPI for 5th place then Hobart would have been the 2 seed  because they were 2-0 against Clarkson and Skidmore was 1-1. Whew! Did you get all that. ???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 27, 2010, 02:49:10 PM
I just received word from Plattsburgh St. that the SUNYAC Championship game between Oneonta St and Plattsburgh St will be a live webcast by PSTV this afternoon at 4:00 PM. Here's the link:

http://primelink1.net/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 28, 2010, 12:12:36 AM
St. Lawrence takes the Liberty League Tournament Championship with a 109-90 win over Hobart today and claim the automatic bid to the NCAA tournament.
Saints break open a close game that was tied at 17 with 12:19 left to play in the first half. 5 straight points by SLU's Andy Hoercher triggered a 17-4 Saints run that found the Statemen on the short end of a 34-21 score with 6:20 left to play in the period. Hobart would never get the deficit below double figures for the remainder of the game. The Saints went into the break with a 47-34 lead.
SLU continued to increase their lead in the early stages of the 2nd half and had their largest lead of 20 points with 14:40 left to play. Hobart would twice cut the lead to 10 points but the Saints had an answer every time they tried to mount a comeback. Up by 20 again with 5:53 to go the Saints cruised to the finish line to claim their 1st tournament crown since the 2006-07 season. It also marked the 1st time since the 2005-06 season that the #1 seed captured the title. Hamilton was the last team to do so that year.  Saints had 5 players in double figures led by Andy Hoercher, the games high scorer with 22 points. Hoercher also added 5 rebounds, 4 assists and 2 steals and was chosen to the All Tournament Team. Ralph Temgoua scored 21 points,had a game high 8 rebounds and added 4 assists. he was chosen as the Most Outstanding Player of the Tournament. Nick Meunier who was next in the scorer's parade had 18 points, with 6 boards, and Terry Parham chipped in with 10 points. Senior Captain Josh Sharlow, fresh off his Player of the year honors had 11 points along with a team high 7 assists.

Hobart placed 4 players in double figures with Matt Pebole and Tim LLewellyn leading the way with 19 each. Stefan Thompson added 15 points along with a game high 9 assists, while Rezin Davis contributed 14 points for the Statesmen.
The Saints out rebounded Hobart 46-32. Saint Lawrence will be making their 3rd trip to the NCAA tournament in the past 4 years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 28, 2010, 06:30:18 AM
Here are the teams that it looks like the East Region will send to the NCAA Tournament.


Plattsburgh State---SUNYAC  Automatic Bid
Nazareth---Empire 8  Automatic Bid
St. Lawrence---Liberty League  Automatic Bid
Medaille--- Alleghany Mountain Collegiate Conference  Automatic Bid
SUNYIT/Wells winner--- North Eastern Athletic Conference  Automatic Bid
St John Fisher---Pool C At Large Bid
Oneonta State---Pool C At Largr Bid

Ithaca will come up just short of getting a bid as they would be the next East Region team on the table for consideration.

Last year we had 6 teams make the tournament. This year we will have 7 teams get in. The difference is the SUNYAC only got 1 bid last year while this year they get 2.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bomber3 on March 01, 2010, 10:58:24 AM
SUNYIT @ Plattsburgh
Naz vs Medaille @ Plattsburgh

Brooklyn @ St John Fisher
Brandeis vs St. Lawrence @ St John Fisher

Oneonta @ Franklin and Marshall
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 01, 2010, 11:49:25 PM
Ouch for SLU- nasty match up from the get go and then facing a potential game against StJF on their home court?  Tough tests for young SLU squad.  May they rise to the occasion.  I think I'm going to go over on the YAC & e-8 boards and "stir the pot" and say that I think the ECAC winner will come out of the LL-(sometimes I'm a little evil-hehe!)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2010, 05:07:01 AM
Quote from: with age came? on March 01, 2010, 11:49:25 PM
Ouch for SLU- nasty match up from the get go and then facing a potential game against StJF on their home court?  Tough tests for young SLU squad.  May they rise to the occasion.  I think I'm going to go over on the YAC & e-8 boards and "stir the pot" and say that I think the ECAC winner will come out of the LL-(sometimes I'm a little evil-hehe!)

with age,
Are you planning to take in the SLU game against Brandeis this weekend down there? Or you could always come up to Plattsburgh and stay at my house and watch (hopefully) 2 good Plattsburgh St. games this weekend. Saints will have to be at their best to beat Brandeis but it's possible. They have some chinks in their armor that past Bandeis teams(2 yrs ago ) didn't have.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 04, 2010, 11:19:41 AM
Thanks for the invite Magic but my son may be coming home to celebrate his birthday (he's still up in the air because of work).  Have a buddy whose son is on Medaille (Berkun) smart tough guard just like his old man. Naz - Medaille game could be a real good one.  Think Card - SUNYIT will be close but cards win pulling away at the end by about 10.  Also think the cards handle the next game too if they play to their potential.  If they get to Williams - you have got to play the games....and who knows? If my son wants to we may try to go up and see games at SJF pod. Brandeis is a tough draw for SLU but they are playing pretty well now and they did "take care of business" in LL tournament so I will hope for the best!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 05, 2010, 03:20:19 PM
Quote from: with age came? on March 04, 2010, 11:19:41 AM
Thanks for the invite Magic but my son may be coming home to celebrate his birthday (he's still up in the air because of work).  Have a buddy whose son is on Medaille (Berkun) smart tough guard just like his old man. Naz - Medaille game could be a real good one.  Think Card - SUNYIT will be close but cards win pulling away at the end by about 10.  Also think the cards handle the next game too if they play to their potential.  If they get to Williams - you have got to play the games....and who knows? If my son wants to we may try to go up and see games at SJF pod. Brandeis is a tough draw for SLU but they are playing pretty well now and they did "take care of business" in LL tournament so I will hope for the best!

with age,
You know you're always welcome.

Here's my guesses on tonight's action involving New York teams.

Plattsburgh St. 82    SUNYIT  70
Medaille 76   Nazareth  72
St. John Fisher 73  Brooklyn 65
Brandeis 77  St. Lawrence  68
Oneonta 68  Franklin and Marshall  66

Hope I'm wrong on the St. Lawrence score.

Naz/Medaille is tough game to pick because of Medaille's weak schedule, but they do have an impressive win over John Carroll.

Oneonta with a tough game against D3Hoops #20th ranked Franklin and Marshall  and are the dogs here but the Red Dragons own a win over #10th ranked William Paterson and I think they can get it done here if they play to their potential. 

Time to go get my tickets for the games in Plattsburgh tonight. GO CARDS!!!


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 06, 2010, 12:51:34 AM
Tonights results:

SUNYIT comes to PLattsburgh and downs the Cardinals 71-65. Diloo Brown scorches the nets for 31 points on 11x21 fg, 6x11 3's 3x4 ft. SUNYIT will take on Medaille Saturday evening for the right to go to the sweet 16.

Medaille comes from 11 points down 60-49 with 5:27 to play and gets a basket by Keith Hack with 1 second to go that ties it up and sends it to overtime. Mavericks jump out to a 4 point lead and are never caught as they down Nazareth 78-72

Brandeis downs St. Lawrence 76-64. The Judges are down 5 in the early going but catch the Saints at 17 apiece with 10:24 to play in the 1st. 20-7 run by Brandeis gives them a 13 point advantage and they were never threatened. Brandeis led at one point late in the 2nd by 25 points.

St John Fisher wins a tight one against Brooklyn 60-56. Cardinals end the game on an 11-2 run to advance against Brandeis tomorrow night. Down 54-49 with 4:27 to go Fishers gets back to back 3 pointers from Jordan Koch and Conner Henderson 24 seconds apart to grab a 55-54 lead they would never relinquish.

Franklin and Marshall defeats Oneonta St. 91-77 and will move on to face Merchant Marine on Saturday night. Diplomats break away from a 39-35 halftime advantage to open up a double digit lead with 12:45 remaining in the 2nd half. Red Dragon could never get within shouting distance after that.

 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 06, 2010, 11:31:53 AM
Did not expect SLU to win against Brandeis.  I am shocked that Plattsburg lost to SUNYIT.  Thought Medaille Naz would be a good game and it sounds like a barn burner.  Magic was only off 2 points from that one.  Got to bummed about the cards.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 06, 2010, 04:52:41 PM
Brockport with an 18-0 run midway through the 1st half takes command against Hobart. Golden Eagles turn 11-8 deficit into a 26-11 advantage and coast into the break up 43-28.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on March 07, 2010, 06:51:16 AM
Gonna be an E8-SUNYAC championship tilt in the ECAC Upstate Men's Basketball Championship this afternoon as both LL teams that threw their hats into the ring fell on Saturday, both getting drilled.

No. 2 SUNY Brockport throttled No. 3 Hobart, 86-59; while No. 1 Ithaca drubbed No. 4 RPI, 88-67, to advance.

The championship game will be played at 2 p.m. this afternoon at SUNY Brockport.

Am guessing Skidmore declined/wasn't allowed to play in the ECAC's since they had a better record than RPI. At first blush, also surprised Union wasn't in the ECAC mix, but then realized it was only their league record (8-6) that was better than RPI's (7-7), overall though, the Engineers were 15-9 while the Dutchmen were 12-13.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 07, 2010, 03:33:56 PM
Apparently I could not have been more wrong.  LL teams both ran into buzz saws as Brockport and Ithaca shoot 56% and 65% in the first halves and coast.  Either they were hot or LL teams did not play any defense at all. Though 65% from 3 point land is pretty impressive even without defense. With SJF being eliminated every league & team I follow is toast.  It is pretty sad when I am down to rooting for SUNYIT.....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 16, 2010, 01:06:45 PM
The D3Hoops All Region Teams have just been released.

Corey McAdam of Nazareth College was chosen as the All East Region Player of the Year.

Matt Pebole, sophomore forward from Hobart was chosen to the All East Region First Team.

Stefan Thompson, freshman guard from Hobart was named All East Region Rookie of the Year.

Here is a complete list of award winners from the East Region. Congratulations to all of these outstanding players.

Men's All-East Region Team
Players were nominated for these awards by the Sports Information Directors at the various schools. All SIDs in the region were given the opportunity to vote.

Player of the Year: Corey McAdam, Sr., Nazareth
Coach of the Year: Kevin Grimmer, SUNYIT
Rookie of the Year: Stefan Thompson, G, Hobart

First team

Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
G Corey McAdam Nazareth Sr. Fairport, N.Y.
G Diloo Brown SUNYIT Sr. Harlem, N.Y.
F Matt Pebole Hobart So. Little Silver, N.J.
F Phil Barera Ithaca Jr. Belmont, Mass. 
C David Golembiowski SUNYIT Jr. Barneveld, N.Y.

Second team

Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
G Chris Ruiz Plattsburgh State Jr. Washington Hts., N.Y.
G Darrell Bullock Wells Sr. Chicago, Ill.
F Errol Daniyan Plattsburgh State Jr. Coram, N.Y.
C Juan Paulino Wells Sr. Bronx, N.Y.
C Brian Beckford Oneonta State Sr. Brooklyn, N.Y.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: platinumondubs on March 16, 2010, 01:18:45 PM
No Sharlow, huh?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 16, 2010, 05:18:12 PM
Quote from: platinumondubs on March 16, 2010, 01:18:45 PM
No Sharlow, huh?

Not on that list but St. Lawrence's Josh Sharlow has been chosen to play for the East Team in the NABC Division III All Star Game this Saturday that will take place in Salem, Virginia right before the DIII National Championship game. Corey McAdam from Nazareth has also been chosen for the East squad.
There will be a live video broadcast of the game, with Pat Coleman, Joe Davis and Dave McHugh on the call from Salem. The game starts at 10:30 AM.

Here is a list of the players chosen and the team they will play on:

West Team
Coach: Rick Bowen, UW-River Falls
No. Name School Ht. Hometown
1 Kola Alade Austin College 6-2 Murphy, Texas
3 John Hoch Carroll 5-10 Colgate, Wis.
12 Sean Wallis Washington U. 6-3 Northbrook, Ill.
22 Stephen Fields Virginia Wesleyan 6-2 Hampton, Va.
23 Dustin Mitchell UW-Whitewater 6-9 Lac du Flambeau, Wis.
34 Kyle Meyer Ohio Northern 6-5 Columbus Grove, Ohio
44 Nate Montgomery Whitworth 6-8 Sammamish, Wash.
52 John Mantel Calvin 6-9 Chelsea, Mich.

To be added depending on semifinal results:

No. Name School Ht. Hometown
11  Clay Henson  Guilford  6-2  Glen Alpine, N.C.  
11  Michael Strickland  Randolph-Macon  5-11  Myrtle Beach, S.C.  
20  Matt Moses  UW-Stevens Point  6-2  Fon du Lac, Wis.  
21 Blake Schultz Williams  6-3  Atherton, Wis.  

East Team
Coach: Mike Beitzel, Hanover
No. Name School Ht. Hometown
3 Corey McAdam Nazareth 6-1 Fairport, N.Y.
11 Josh Sharlow St. Lawrence 5-9 Norwood, N.Y.
12 Darnell Braswell DeSales 6-1 Allentown, Pa.
21 Richard Jean-Baptiste Brooklyn 6-4 Queens, N.Y.
32 Adam Choice Colby 6-5 Newport, R.I.
33 Terrell Hollins Brandeis 6-4 Springfield, Mass.
35 Abdoulaye Ouedraogo William Paterson 6-8 Newark, N.J.
40 Kevin Misevicius Cabrini 6-6 Allentown, Pa.

To be added depending on semifinal results:

No. Name School Ht. Hometown
2 Tim Lawrence Randolph-Macon 6-1 Verona, N.J.
15 Tyler Sanborn Guilford 6-9 Elkin, N.C.
25 Evan Sweeney UW-Stevens Point 6-2 Appleton, Wis.
44 Joe Geoghegan Williams 6-8 Cape Elizabeth, Maine
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 18, 2010, 03:10:51 AM
The National Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC) named their All-District and All-American teams today:

Here is the East Region All-District Teams:
*Denotes Player of the Year

First Team                                 Second Team
*Corey McAdam, Nazareth              Keith Jensen, NYU
Josh Sharlow, St. Lawrence               Diloo Brown, SUNYIT
Brian Beckford, Oneonta                    Phil Barera, Ithaca
Keith Hack, Medaille                          Matt Pebole, Hobart
Chris Ruiz, Plattsburg State                Matt Newman, St. John Fisher
Dave Golembiowski, SUNYIT
Coach of the Year: Kevin Grimmer – SUNYIT

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nabc/genrel/auto_pdf/2010D3All-America.pdf

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nabc/genrel/auto_pdf/2010D3All-District.pdf

All-Americans

1st Team
Tyler Sanborn, Guilford, 6-9, Senior, Center, Elkin, N.C.
Blake Schultz, Williams, 6-3, Senior, Guard/Forward, Atherton, Calif.
Ian Franks, Wooster, 6-4, Junior, Guard, Greenwich, Ohio
Dustin Mitchell, UW-Whitewater, 6-9, Senior, Forward/Center, Lac Du Flambeau, Wis.
Marcel Esonwune, York (NY), 6-6, Junior, Forward/Center, Lagos, Nigeria
Darnell Braswell, DeSales, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Allentown, Pa.
Corey McAdam, Nazareth, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Fairport, N.Y.
Steve Djurickovic, Carthage, 6-3, Junior, Guard, Pleasant Prairie, Wis.

2nd Team
Trey Drake, North Carolina Wesleyan, 5-8, Senior, Guard, Emporia, Va.
Noel Hollingsworth, MIT, 6-9, Sophomore, Forward, Salt Lake City, Utah
Kyle Meyer, Ohio Northern, 6-5, Senior, Forward, Columbus Grove, Ohio
Nate Montgomery, Whitworth, 6-8, Senior, Center, Sammamish, Wash.
Abdoulaye Ouedraogo, William Paterson, 6-8, Senior, Forward, Newark, N.J.
James McNally, Franklin & Marshall, 6-6, Junior, Forward, Bridgewater, N.J.
Josh Sharlow, St. Lawrence, 5-9, Senior, Guard, Norwood, N.Y.
John Hoch, Carroll, 5-10, Senior, Guard, Colgate, Wis.

3rd Team
Greg Hernandez, Maryville, 6-6, Senior, Center, Miami, Fla.
Adam Choice, Colby, 6-5, Senior, Forward, Newport, R.I.
Michael McClary, Olivet, 6-5, Junior, Center, Bellaire, Mich.
Tyler Nicolai, St. Thomas, 5-11, Junior, Guard, Minnetonka, Minn.
Richard Jean-Baptiste, Brooklyn, 6-4, Senior, Forward, Queens, N.Y.
Nick Brady, York (PA), 6-2, Senior, Guard, Hanover, Pa.
Brian Beckford, Oneonta, 6-9, Senior, Forward, Brooklyn, N.Y.
Sean Wallis, Washington University (St. Louis), 6-2, Graduate, Guard, Northbrook, Ill.

NABC selects All-Americans differently than D3hoops.  They pick one player from each region for each All-America team.  So the best player in each region is 1st team, 2nd best is 2nd team, and 3rd best is 3rd team.




Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 20, 2010, 12:13:44 PM
East squad wins the All-Star game 109-107 in overtime. Clay Henson of Guilford led the West Squad with 35 points and was the game's leading scorer. Abdoulaye Oeudraogo from William Paterson led the East Squad with 18 points. Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence had a great all-around game, as he made a nice feed to Darnell Braswell for an open layup with 2 seconds left in the game. Braswell was hammered and missed the lay-in but went to the line and made the 2 foul shots that accounted for the winning points. Sharlow scored 10 points, had 5 assists, 4 steals and 2 blocks. Hensen was unconscious as he drained three pointer after three pointer from all over the court. I don't know if they had an MVP for the game but he was clearly it.

Corey McAdam of Nazareth also played well as he scored 8 points for the East Squad, but it seemed to me that the group of players that Corey played with didn't share the ball as well as the group of players that Josh played with. The only time that both Corey and Josh were on the court together was in the overtime period. Good to see both East Region players do well. Both players also had an in game interview with Pat Coleman when they were on the bench between shifts. Pat did get Corey to admit how much he disliked Fisher. ;D  
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 21, 2010, 02:10:48 AM
D3Hoops announced this year's All American Teams prior to Saturday's National Championship Game.

Corey McAdam from Nazareth was named to the second team. He was the only player from the East region who was honored. I was surprised that David Golembiowski of SUNYIT was not on the list anywhere. The Preseason All American list had Golembiowski on the 4th team and McAdam on the list of honorable mention players. After the year Golembiowski and SUNYIT had I fail to see why he was omitted from the post season all american awards.

No surprise for the Player of the Year honors as junior guard Steve Djurickovic of Carthage College won that award. Good chance he'll win it next year as well.


Here is the link to see the complete list:

http://www.d3hoops.com/all-american/menallam10.htm
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 22, 2010, 11:01:21 PM
DIII News publication has announced their All American teams today.

Tyler Sanborn of Guilford was named as the Player of the Year

Corey McAdam of Nazareth was named to the 4th team

David Golembiowski of SUNYIT was named to the 4th team

Honorable Mention
Chris Ruiz of Plattsburgh State
Brian Beckford Oneonta State
Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence
Keith Hack Medaille

Here is a link for the complete list:

http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NAATeam10.pdf
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on May 11, 2010, 02:02:30 PM
So, it appears Luke Flockerzi of Skidmore is going to be the next coach at the University of Rochester, setting in motion another coaching shift in the East Region.

Any thoughts on who would be tapped to replace him at Skidmore? Or thoughts about Flockerzi at UofR?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on May 13, 2010, 11:02:01 PM
buck,

Just learned today that Plattsburgh State Associate Head Men's Basketball Coach Cameron Conover has applied for the Skidmore Head Coaching position. Conover has been at Plattsburgh State for the past 5 years assisting Coach Tom Curle and became the associate head coach several years ago. The Cardinals have been one of the top D3 schools in the state during that time winning 4 SUNYAC titles in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2010. They went to the NCAA tourney in each of those seasons and will probably be favored to win the SUNYAC title again this coming season as they return nearly all of their starting lineup. Conover's time spent under Curle's tutelage should prove invaluable and would make him a good fit for this young Skidmore team. He has his masters degree and at 30 or 31 years old he's a candidate that will probably spend a considerable amount of time in his first head coaching position. Skidmore should challenge for the Liberty League title next year as they return most of their rotation. Hope the Thoroughbreds hire a good coach, whoever that turns out to be, but they sure can't go wrong if it ends up being Conover. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on May 14, 2010, 02:06:01 PM
Thanks Magic. I'm sure there will be lots of applicants for this one. Great location, good academic reputation and reportedly the school is making an investment (good financial aid and extra consideration in admissions) in the program. It will be interesting to see how the coaching carousel continues to spin.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bomber3 on May 17, 2010, 01:27:28 PM
Quote from: magicman on May 13, 2010, 11:02:01 PM
buck,

Just learned today that Plattsburgh State Associate Head Men's Basketball Coach Cameron Conover has applied for the Skidmore Head Coaching position. Conover has been at Plattsburgh State for the past 5 years assisting Coach Tom Curle and became the associate head coach several years ago. The Cardinals have been one of the top D3 schools in the state during that time winning 4 SUNYAC titles in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2010. They went to the NCAA tourney in each of those seasons and will probably be favored to win the SUNYAC title again this coming season as they return nearly all of their starting lineup. Conover's time spent under Curle's tutelage should prove invaluable and would make him a good fit for this young Skidmore team. He has his masters degree and at 30 or 31 years old he's a candidate that will probably spend a considerable amount of time in his first head coaching position. Skidmore should challenge for the Liberty League title next year as they return most of their rotation. Hope the Thoroughbreds hire a good coach, whoever that turns out to be, but they sure can't go wrong if it ends up being Conover. 

He has to be a leading candidate along with Nevada Smith from Ithaca.  Both are up and coming assistant coaches in the East Region and should land head coaching jobs in the near future.  Here is how their resumes stand up:

Nevada Smith:
4 years at Ithaca
76-33 (72.48%) (4 years prior to his arrival IC was a combined 54-53)
One NCAA Appearance , ECAC Championship


Cameron Conover
5 years at Platsburgh
95-47 (66.9%)
Four NCAA Appearances (3 years prior to his arrival Plattsburgh was 37-43)

Very comparable resumes.  Smith has a better record and has done an excellent job recruiting as the team is stacked for the forseeable future (I'm not sure what Plasstburgh has coming back).  Conover's teams have had more postseason success though.  I'm biased because I've seen how Smith changed the Ithaca program so obviously he gets my vote.  Anyone know of other candidates up for the job? Should be interesting to see how it tuns out...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on May 19, 2010, 05:32:23 PM
It will be interesting to see if Skidmore goes with an assistant coach or someone with head coaching experience, because there are sure to be more than a few head guys looking at this one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: trider400t on May 21, 2010, 08:04:04 PM
Quote from: magicman on May 13, 2010, 11:02:01 PM
buck,

Just learned today that Plattsburgh State Associate Head Men's Basketball Coach Cameron Conover has applied for the Skidmore Head Coaching position. Conover has been at Plattsburgh State for the past 5 years assisting Coach Tom Curle and became the associate head coach several years ago. The Cardinals have been one of the top D3 schools in the state during that time winning 4 SUNYAC titles in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2010. They went to the NCAA tourney in each of those seasons and will probably be favored to win the SUNYAC title again this coming season as they return nearly all of their starting lineup. Conover's time spent under Curle's tutelage should prove invaluable and would make him a good fit for this young Skidmore team. He has his masters degree and at 30 or 31 years old he's a candidate that will probably spend a considerable amount of time in his first head coaching position. Skidmore should challenge for the Liberty League title next year as they return most of their rotation. Hope the Thoroughbreds hire a good coach, whoever that turns out to be, but they sure can't go wrong if it ends up being Conover. 

How does somebody apply for a job that isn't posted yet?  I have a friend who's also looking at the position and he was told that they were not accepting applications yet.  This will be a highly sought after job.  The former coach has a lot of returning players.   Didn't Curle apply before?  Do you think they want an assistant?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on May 22, 2010, 01:06:58 AM
Quote from: trider400t on May 21, 2010, 08:04:04 PM
Quote from: magicman on May 13, 2010, 11:02:01 PM
buck,

Just learned today that Plattsburgh State Associate Head Men's Basketball Coach Cameron Conover has applied for the Skidmore Head Coaching position. Conover has been at Plattsburgh State for the past 5 years assisting Coach Tom Curle and became the associate head coach several years ago. The Cardinals have been one of the top D3 schools in the state during that time winning 4 SUNYAC titles in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2010. They went to the NCAA tourney in each of those seasons and will probably be favored to win the SUNYAC title again this coming season as they return nearly all of their starting lineup. Conover's time spent under Curle's tutelage should prove invaluable and would make him a good fit for this young Skidmore team. He has his masters degree and at 30 or 31 years old he's a candidate that will probably spend a considerable amount of time in his first head coaching position. Skidmore should challenge for the Liberty League title next year as they return most of their rotation. Hope the Thoroughbreds hire a good coach, whoever that turns out to be, but they sure can't go wrong if it ends up being Conover.  

How does somebody apply for a job that isn't posted yet?  I have a friend who's also looking at the position and he was told that they were not accepting applications yet.  This will be a highly sought after job.  The former coach has a lot of returning players.   Didn't Curle apply before?  Do you think they want an assistant?

When Skidmore hired Luke Flockerzi 4 years ago he had never been a head coach and that worked out all right. I don't see why they wouldn't go that route again. Unless they get an application from a current or former head coach with a solid resume (which may happen as buck has pointed out) why not go with a top assistant from a winning program. I'd rather see them do that than go with a head coach from a school that hasn't really had much success.

bomber3,
Good comparison between Smith and Conover. Small error though in Ithaca's winning percentage. 76-33 is 69.72%, still pretty good. In reponse to your question of what Plattsburgh State has returning for next year: They return 4 starters which were their top 4 scorers from last year, all of whom averaged double digit ppg. They also have a solid group of recruits coming in and will likely be favored to win their 5th SUNYAC crown in the past 6 years. Conover has been instrumental in recruiting the players that have chosen to attend Plattsburgh State. Plattsburgh had to reload after the 2007-2008 season when they made it to the sweet 16 and went 27-3. The entire starting 5 graduated that year and the following year when they failed to win the SUNYAC title they started 4 sophomores and a freshman. As juniors this year they regained their title and next year could be another outstanding season. Conover's ability to land top prospects has been a model of consistency in the 6 years he has been on the recruiting trail. During their 4 years as SUNYAC champs Plattsburgh has went 87-31 for a 73.7%.            
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bomber3 on May 24, 2010, 09:13:56 AM
Quote from: magicman on May 22, 2010, 01:06:58 AM
Quote from: trider400t on May 21, 2010, 08:04:04 PM
Quote from: magicman on May 13, 2010, 11:02:01 PM
buck,

Just learned today that Plattsburgh State Associate Head Men's Basketball Coach Cameron Conover has applied for the Skidmore Head Coaching position. Conover has been at Plattsburgh State for the past 5 years assisting Coach Tom Curle and became the associate head coach several years ago. The Cardinals have been one of the top D3 schools in the state during that time winning 4 SUNYAC titles in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2010. They went to the NCAA tourney in each of those seasons and will probably be favored to win the SUNYAC title again this coming season as they return nearly all of their starting lineup. Conover's time spent under Curle's tutelage should prove invaluable and would make him a good fit for this young Skidmore team. He has his masters degree and at 30 or 31 years old he's a candidate that will probably spend a considerable amount of time in his first head coaching position. Skidmore should challenge for the Liberty League title next year as they return most of their rotation. Hope the Thoroughbreds hire a good coach, whoever that turns out to be, but they sure can't go wrong if it ends up being Conover.  

How does somebody apply for a job that isn't posted yet?  I have a friend who's also looking at the position and he was told that they were not accepting applications yet.  This will be a highly sought after job.  The former coach has a lot of returning players.   Didn't Curle apply before?  Do you think they want an assistant?

When Skidmore hired Luke Flockerzi 4 years ago he had never been a head coach and that worked out all right. I don't see why they wouldn't go that route again. Unless they get an application from a current or former head coach with a solid resume (which may happen as buck has pointed out) why not go with a top assistant from a winning program. I'd rather see them do that than go with a head coach from a school that hasn't really had much success.

bomber3,
Good comparison between Smith and Conover. Small error though in Ithaca's winning percentage. 76-33 is 69.72%, still pretty good. In reponse to your question of what Plattsburgh State has returning for next year: They return 4 starters which were their top 4 scorers from last year, all of whom averaged double digit ppg. They also have a solid group of recruits coming in and will likely be favored to win their 5th SUNYAC crown in the past 6 years. Conover has been instrumental in recruiting the players that have chosen to attend Plattsburgh State. Plattsburgh had to reload after the 2007-2008 season when they made it to the sweet 16 and went 27-3. The entire starting 5 graduated that year and the following year when they failed to win the SUNYAC title they started 4 sophomores and a freshman. As juniors this year they regained their title and next year could be another outstanding season. Conover's ability to land top prospects has been a model of consistency in the 6 years he has been on the recruiting trail. During their 4 years as SUNYAC champs Plattsburgh has went 87-31 for a 73.7%.            

Yes, they have been on an impressive run the past 5 or 6 years (except that one outlier season).  Plattsburgh has been the class of the SUNYAC since then and Ithaca has risen near the top of the E8 as well.  If one of these two are hired don't expect any drop off this year, especially in a weaker Liberty League (right?).

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on June 05, 2010, 03:35:02 PM
Quote from: magicman on May 22, 2010, 01:06:58 AM
Quote from: trider400t on May 21, 2010, 08:04:04 PM

How does somebody apply for a job that isn't posted yet?  I have a friend who's also looking at the position and he was told that they were not accepting applications yet.  This will be a highly sought after job.  The former coach has a lot of returning players.   Didn't Curle apply before?  Do you think they want an assistant?

When Skidmore hired Luke Flockerzi 4 years ago he had never been a head coach and that worked out all right. I don't see why they wouldn't go that route again. Unless they get an application from a current or former head coach with a solid resume (which may happen as buck has pointed out) why not go with a top assistant from a winning program. I'd rather see them do that than go with a head coach from a school that hasn't really had much success.


The ad just came out for the position about a week ago or so, and it stated they were looking for candidates with head coaching experience, but who knows how this will really shake out. I have heard top assistant through head coaches are angling for this, though only just a few names that are being thrown around on here. Anyone else hearing anything? Are there any former players who might merit consideration?

Quote from: bomber3 on May 24, 2010, 09:13:56 AM

If one of these two are hired don't expect any drop off this year, especially in a weaker Liberty League (right?).



I wouldn't think there would be much dropoff, but I think that goes for any halfway decent coach that would be hired. Don't take that to mean Smith or Conover wouldn't be good choices, I just think they have too good a team coming back for their season not to be a good one.

While I think the Liberty League is a little weaker than it has been, I also think the perception of their weakness may have to do with the fact the balance of power has shifted a little bit. Vassar tried to make a run at it for a few years, but they were unable to accomplish what Skidmore has done over the past few seasons. Not to take anything away from his coaching abilities, but Flockerzi got the position at a great time, as Skidmore -- the institution -- made a commitment to improve the quality of their athletics programs, basketball being a beneficiary. They were able to get more kids in and with better financial aid through various programs. Completely legal and they have taken advantage of that. Good for them. Other schools have not done the same and they are the ones that are flagging in their league status. And the varied coaching changes have shifted things a little. Plus, Hamilton has really found itself struggling at times and is pretty much the lame duck of the league, with the Continentals looking to depart for fulltime NESCAC action soon.

So, there's a bunch of theorizing, but the summary is that I don't think the Liberty League is as weak as everyone (well, a lot of people) thinks it is.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bomber3 on June 07, 2010, 09:40:55 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on June 05, 2010, 03:35:02 PM
Quote from: magicman on May 22, 2010, 01:06:58 AM
Quote from: trider400t on May 21, 2010, 08:04:04 PM

How does somebody apply for a job that isn't posted yet?  I have a friend who's also looking at the position and he was told that they were not accepting applications yet.  This will be a highly sought after job.  The former coach has a lot of returning players.   Didn't Curle apply before?  Do you think they want an assistant?

When Skidmore hired Luke Flockerzi 4 years ago he had never been a head coach and that worked out all right. I don't see why they wouldn't go that route again. Unless they get an application from a current or former head coach with a solid resume (which may happen as buck has pointed out) why not go with a top assistant from a winning program. I'd rather see them do that than go with a head coach from a school that hasn't really had much success.


The ad just came out for the position about a week ago or so, and it stated they were looking for candidates with head coaching experience, but who knows how this will really shake out. I have heard top assistant through head coaches are angling for this, though only just a few names that are being thrown around on here. Anyone else hearing anything? Are there any former players who might merit consideration?

Quote from: bomber3 on May 24, 2010, 09:13:56 AM

If one of these two are hired don't expect any drop off this year, especially in a weaker Liberty League (right?).



I wouldn't think there would be much dropoff, but I think that goes for any halfway decent coach that would be hired. Don't take that to mean Smith or Conover wouldn't be good choices, I just think they have too good a team coming back for their season not to be a good one.

While I think the Liberty League is a little weaker than it has been, I also think the perception of their weakness may have to do with the fact the balance of power has shifted a little bit. Vassar tried to make a run at it for a few years, but they were unable to accomplish what Skidmore has done over the past few seasons. Not to take anything away from his coaching abilities, but Flockerzi got the position at a great time, as Skidmore -- the institution -- made a commitment to improve the quality of their athletics programs, basketball being a beneficiary. They were able to get more kids in and with better financial aid through various programs. Completely legal and they have taken advantage of that. Good for them. Other schools have not done the same and they are the ones that are flagging in their league status. And the varied coaching changes have shifted things a little. Plus, Hamilton has really found itself struggling at times and is pretty much the lame duck of the league, with the Continentals looking to depart for fulltime NESCAC action soon.

So, there's a bunch of theorizing, but the summary is that I don't think the Liberty League is as weak as everyone (well, a lot of people) thinks it is.

It may not weak but it is in somewhat of a transition phase.  Hamilton dominated the league for a long time and is now on the way out the door.  St. Lawrence has been the class of the league the past few years but the top teams haven't been able to put together a season like some of the other East Region teams (Fisher's 20+ win seasons, Plattsburgh, Ithaca, SUNYIT).  There are solid teams in the league but no one has been able to put together a real special run.  (Best record in the league the past few years:  2010 (17-11) 2009 (18-8) 2008 (18-8)).  The league has been more balanced the past few years I guess.

And the Skidmore posting doesn't necessarily say they are looking for someone with head coaching experience but preference is given to those with experience.  Doesn't totally close the door on assistants just they have an uphill battle.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3lifer on June 07, 2010, 01:21:52 PM
I wouldn't be surprised with the hiring of an established assistant coach, a lot of it may have to do with personality fit and how the prospective candidates interact departmentally. Your resume just has to be good enough to get you in the door from there who knows. We have seen head coach movement within the three big leagues in New York Empire 8, Liberty League, and SUNYAC over the past few years but the Skidmore position will likey attract resumes from I would guess 150 applicants at least from assistants at all levels and D3 head coaches. This is not only a desirable college but also location and league.

Anyone hear anything about applicants being contacted, I would think Skidmore would be interested in getting started with the process.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3lifer on June 25, 2010, 07:32:57 PM
Rumors are that the following are finalists for the Skidmore Job...

Joe Burke - Assistant Coach Navy

Ed Silva - Head Coach Elms College

Rob Nugent - Head Coach Washington (MD) College

Mike Rejniak - Assistant Coach Amherst College

This was supposedly as of 6/21/10..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bomber3 on June 28, 2010, 09:24:09 AM
Quote from: d3hooperforlife on June 25, 2010, 07:32:57 PM
Rumors are that the following are finalists for the Skidmore Job...

Joe Burke - Assistant Coach Navy

Ed Silva - Head Coach Elms College

Rob Nugent - Head Coach Washington (MD) College

Mike Rejniak - Assistant Coach Amherst College

This was supposedly as of 6/21/10..
Wow thats a pretty impressive list.

Assistant coach D1 program (not to mention David Robinson's alma mater)
Head coach of D3 team that has gone 24-6, 26-2, and 23-7 the past three seasons
Head coach of D3 team (10+ years experience)
Assisant coach of one of the most prominent D3 programs in the country (lost national championship game several years ago)

Too bad there isn't any East Region representation on the list as there were many well qualified candidates discussed on these boards.  Unless there are some last minute changes this may be one of the last openings before the school year starts.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gordonmann on June 28, 2010, 10:32:42 AM
There's a precedent for Navy Assistants getting Division III head coaching jobs, including Nathan Davis (Randolph-Macon) and Jimmy Allen (Averett).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on June 28, 2010, 10:53:28 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on June 28, 2010, 10:32:42 AM
There's a precedent for Navy Assistants getting Division III head coaching jobs, including Nathan Davis (Randolph-Macon) and Jimmy Allen (Averett).

And Amherst assistant's getting the Skidmore head position.  See:  Flockerzi, Luke
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bomber3 on June 28, 2010, 11:39:09 AM
Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on June 28, 2010, 10:53:28 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on June 28, 2010, 10:32:42 AM
There's a precedent for Navy Assistants getting Division III head coaching jobs, including Nathan Davis (Randolph-Macon) and Jimmy Allen (Averett).

And Amherst assistant's getting the Skidmore head position.  See:  Flockerzi, Luke
Good point.  If I was ranking the four candidates listed I would rank them in the following order (top two are too close to call):

1. Joe Burke (Navy is a solid D1 program and he is the top assistant.  Has 6+ years experience at the D1 level and helped recruit Cornell's class that just graduated)
1a. Ed Silva (Turned Elms around from 2-21 to national prominence and has made NCAAs 5 of the past 6 years)
3. Rejniak (No coaching experience but as it was pointed out earlier Skidmore has liked Amherst assisants before and comes from a top-notch program)
4. Nugent (Has 10+ years head coaching experience but has gone 34-63 the past four years including 5-20 and 4-20 seasons)

My guess is it goes to Burke or Silva since they appear to be ahead of the other two in terms of past success and/or experience but we shall see.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 28, 2010, 04:35:18 PM
Hiring announced: http://www.d3hoops.com/newsitems.php?item=3085
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on September 13, 2010, 12:18:20 AM
Recent SLU grad Josh Sharlowe has just signed a contract to play professionally in England. here's the write-up from Saturday's Watertown Daily Times:

"Former Flyers athlete Sharlow signs pro deal
SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 2010

Former St. Lawrence University and Norwood-Norfolk High School basketball player Josh Sharlow has signed a contract with a European professional team, the London Leopards of the England Basketball League.

Sharlow ended his career with the Saints last year, finishing with 1,044 career points, 492 rebounds and 468 assists. He was the Liberty League Player of the Year and a second-team All-American.

Sharlow is scheduled to leave for his new team on Sept. 18."



I hope Josh does well over there, he was always a pleasure to watch in the Liberty League.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on November 02, 2010, 08:51:08 PM
It's time to get this started for '10-'11.  Predictions for the season?  Teams and players to watch?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: shooters on November 08, 2010, 04:20:35 PM
I like Hobart to have a decent year and downs always has a decent team w slu but he has a lot of holes to fill. Be interesting to see how Hamilton does after last year. My thoughts are they should improve w the addition of some players. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 11, 2010, 06:32:29 PM
D3hoops released their preseason All-American teams today. Only East region player to get mentioned is Dave Golembiowski from SUNYIT who was named to the 4th team. Golembiowski surpassed the 1500 point mark last season and will most likely be one of the few players to top the 2000 point total for his career.



Here's the link to the complete list:  http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/preseason-2011

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on November 15, 2010, 01:16:41 PM
From far away.............I understand RPI got an All Stater from Long Island, Joe Gibbons...   How good is he...will he play as a frosh...  Can he be a big timer at the LL level?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CoachQ882 on November 16, 2010, 08:29:50 PM
I'm a bit surprised no one here as brought the Skidmore Thoroughbreds into the pre-season favorite conversation. Granted they will be ushering in a new coaching regime with Coach Burke, they return everyone from their impressive and talented 09-10 team. Senior Jeff Altimar should shine in a more half court offense and they're deep. Also, look for former bench standouts John Mantas, Raoul and Melvis to get more minutes. This could be a good or bad thing...Only time will tell. Regardless, their freshmen bring size, which is something they'll miss from last year especially given the departures of Bobby Langford and Jon Douglas. Word on the street is Altimar has been lifting heavy this off-season and has put on 10-15 pounds of muscle.

thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 17, 2010, 04:33:09 AM
Liberty League Men's Basketball Preseason Coaches' Poll was released last week and Hobart was the choice to win the conference by a narrow margin over St. Lawrence. Here are the complete results.

2010-11 Liberty League Men's
Basketball Preseason Coaches' Poll
1. Hobart 47 (5)
2. St. Lawrence 42 (3)
3. Skidmore 34
4. Hamilton 32
5. Union 28
6. Rensselaer 21
7. Clarkson 13
8. Vassar 7
(First-Place Votes in Parentheses)

Hard to argue with the top 2 choices as Hobart has their 1st 10 players returning from last year, led by All-American candidate Matt Pebole, and high scoring guard Stefan Thompson. The Statesmen averaged almost 76 ppg last season and about 72 of those ppg are back. Monday night saw the debut of 6'5" freshman forward Richie Bonney who started his Hobart career with a double-double of 10 pts and 10 rebounds in 17 minutes of action. And 6 of those boards were on the offensive glass. The Statesmen opened their season with an 87-64 win over Cazenovia and Bonney's veteran teammates gave him plenty of help. Thompson led the way with 20 pts, followed by Pebole with 14, and Tim Llewellyn with 11.
Hobart will get an early test as they travel to Ithaca on Wednesday night to take on the highly regarded Bombers who are one of the top picks in the E8 conference.

St. Lawrence played a tune up game against Paul Smith's College on Tuesday night as they opened their season on the road with a 92-50 blowout of the Bobcats. The Saints return 7 of the top 10 players from last year including top scorer and rebounder, Ralph Temgoura. Also back is 2nd leading rebounder and scorer, Garrett Sharlow, plus another starter from last years' Liberty League champs, Terry Parham. Nick Meunier, who started in 6 games last year as a freshman moves into the starting lineup along with Jon Goldberg who also saw significant playing time last year as a freshman. Temgoura, Sharlow, and Parham are all juniors, so the Saints entire starting 5 will be back again next year as well. 
Saints entire 13 player roster got into the scoring column against Paul Smith's and 12 players averaged double minutes.

St. Lawrence will travel to Rochester this weekend to take on the UofR Yellowjackets in the Rochester Tip Off Tournament on Friday at 8 PM. They're back at it on Saturday afternoon against the Bobcats from Bates College at 1 PM. These 2 games will give the coaching staff a better idea of where the team is headed and the Saints will then host nationally ranked Plattsburgh St. on Tuesday Nov 30th. I'm going to try and make the trip to Canton for that game as it should be a good one. Last year the Cardinals edged the Saints 90-86 in Plattsburgh.       

RPI opened their season at home with a win over Sage 83-69 on Mon. nite.

Clarkson traveled to Morrisville St. and came away with an opening game 70-66 win on Mon. nite.

Vassar lost at Endicott Mon. nite 70-66.

Hamilton opens up their season on Fri. 11-19 at home against Pitt-Bradford. This will be the last season in the league for the Continentals as they move to the NESCAC league next season. I don't think the Continentals leave with a good feeling. 4th place may be possible and a final LL playoff appearance, but I wouldn't bet on it. They may have gotten a good group of recruits as the roster is showing 6 freshmen. 4 of them are guards from 5'10" to 6'2" and 2 forwards both at 6'5". They lost 3 starters and several top reserves so an infusion of talent is needed. Leading scorer and rebounder Pat Sullivan returns but the big guy can't do it by himself

Union doesn't open their season until Nov. 28th when they host SUNY-Cobleskill. 

Skidmore with a new coach and lots of returning players should challenge the top pair for the LL crown. They open up their season tonight (Wed.) at SUNY-Cobleskill. I really thought they might get it done last year (I did pick the Saints though at the start of the season) but after putting themselves in a good position early on they finished 3-3 in their final 6 league contests, lost the chance to host the tournament and then couldn't beat Hobart in the 1st game of the playoffs up in Canton.  Last year the Thoroughbreds played SLU and Hobart a total of 5 games. They were 1-4 in those games. Both those teams are also loaded again and they didn't have a coaching change. I think 1 of them wins the crown. My head says Hobart, but my heart wants it to be St. Lawrence, so once again that's who I'm going with. Just don't want em to win on Tuesday Nov 30th.           
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 18, 2010, 01:50:08 AM
Skidmore opens the Joe Burke era with a win on the road over SUNY-Cobleskill 79-72. The Thoroughbreds were down at the half 35-31 but Jeff Altimar scored 13 second half pts to lead Skidmore to the winners circle. Altimar finished with a game high 17 pts. Terron Victoria had 14 pts and 5 steals, while Brian Lowry also had double figures with 13.
Next up for Skidmore is another road game at Tufts University on Sat. Nov. 20th at 7 PM.


Hobart traveled to Ithaca tonight for an important early season regional matchup that will look good on the winner's resume. Unfortunately for the Statesmen it will be the Bomber's resume that will get the gold star as they defeat Hobart 95-87. Ithaca won despite not having top scorer Jordan Marcus in the game.
Bombers went up by as much as 12 in the 1st half but Statesmen came back to make it a 1 pt game at the break as Ithaca led 44-43. Back and forth start of 2nd half and Hobart moves in front 50-46 but the Bombers came back and went up by 10, 67-57, with 10 mins. left to play. Ithaca never headed from that point on. Statesmen cut it to 3 a couple of times but got no closer as Bombers hit their foul shots down the stretch. 
Hobart was led by Matt Pebole with 23 pts and Stefan Thompson with 22. Freshman forward Richie Bonney had a double-double of 10 pts and 16 rebounds, while Tim Llewellyn chipped in with 12 pts.
Chris Cruz-Rivas leads 5 Bombers in double figures with 28 points. He also grabbed 10 rebounds.
Both teams made 32 field goals and 18 free throws but the Bombers hit 12 3 pointers to only 5 for the Statesmen.
Hobart should have better luck against the E8 when they host Elmira on Nov. 23rd at 7 PM.

Vassar breaks into the win column with a  62-48 win over visiting Bard. John Donnelly led the Brewers with a double double of 24 pts (7x15 fg, 10x13 ft) and 10 rebounds. Nick Justiz had 19 pts on 6x8 shooting as he nailed 4 threes in 6 attempts. The Brewers next game will be Nov. 23rd as they host Hunter College.

Bard got an audition of what it will be like next year when they join the Liberty League as a full time member. Losing to Vassar by double digits, a team that was picked to finish last in the LL this year, will be a common occurrence with every LL team they face. The only other LL team they play this season is on Dec. 4th when they travel up to Skidmore.  Hope the Raptors plan on doing some serious recruiting.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 24, 2010, 01:38:33 PM
Skidmore wins the longest game in Division III history with a victory on the road over Southern Vermont 128-123 in a SEVEN overtime marathon. Skidmore had 6 players record double figures led by John Mantas with 27 and Gerard O'Shea with 20. Southern Vermont had 4 guys in double figures headed by Taeshon Johnson with 39. Lance Spratling scored 31 for Southern Vermont and played the entire 75 minutes of the contest.

At the end of regulation neither team scored in the final 1:06 after a So. Vermont layup tied the game at 59-59, sending it to OT.

Skidmore goes to the line with 1 second left in OT and down 1. Player misses the 1st and hits the 2nd to force a 2nd OT. Score is now 67-67.

Down 75-72 Southern Vermont hits a 3 pointer with 11 seconds to go and Skidmore misses a jumper to win it and they move to a 3rd OT.

Down 84-82, this time it's Skidmore who hits a jumper with 9 seconds left to tie it up and Southern Vermont misses a 3 at the buzzer as the teams move to a 4th OT.

Up 91-90 Southern Vermont goes to the line and hits 1st ft but misses the 2nd with 8 seconds to play. Skidmore grabs the rebound off the missed ft and makes a layup with 3 seconds left to send it to a 5th OT.

After a Southern Vermont ft ties it up at 100 apiece with 1:19 to play, the period ends with missed shots or turnovers and into OT #6.

Southern Vermont opens up a 6 pt lead 110-104 with 1:54 to play but Thoroughbred's John Mantas hits a 3 with 46 seconds left to make it 110-109. Mountaineers go to the line and hit 2 ft's with 21 ticks left to once again go up by 3, only to have Skidmore's Eli Johnston drain a 3 with 10 seconds to play. Southern Vermont misses a jumper at the buzzer and the marathon continues to the 7th OT tied at 112.

Teams each hit a 2 and 3 pt basket to remain tied at 117 but Thoroughbreds grab a 5 pt lead with 1:55 to go and are never caught. A Mountaineer 3 pointer with 33 seconds left cuts it to 2 at 125-123 and they quickly foul Skidmore's O'Shea. He makes the 1st and misses the 2nd but Mantas grabs the biggest rebound of the game, forcing the Mountaineers to foul him. He makes both foul shots to make it 128-123. Southern Vermont comes down, misses a 3 pt attempt, Skidmore grabs the rebound and the longest game in D3 history is over.

ESPN has a story about the game. Here's the link:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5846042&categoryid=2459792




Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on November 25, 2010, 01:13:45 PM
Wow. Nice clip/plug for D3 Basketball/Liberty League. Dont know how I missed that on ESPN. Thanks Magicman!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 01, 2010, 10:09:13 PM
The Hamilton Continentals lay claim to the Utica area championship by defeating Utica College tonight 71-60. Just 2 days ago on Nov 29th they beat SUNYIT 74-61.
Tonight Hamilton scored the last 11 points of the game to defeat the Pioneers after Utica had come all the way back from an early 15 pt deficit to take the lead.  Tied at 60 apiece with 2:54 left to play, Utica goes 0x6 from the field with 2 turnovers while Hamilton goes 9x10 from the line and 1x2 from the field. The Continentals outshot the Pioneers from the field, 23x51(45.1%) to 23x63(36.5%), from behind the arc, 7x13(53.8%) to 7x18(38.9%), and from the line, 18x25(72%) to 7x11(63.6%). Utica had 16 turnovers, while Hamilton had 10, but the Pioneers did win the rebounding battle 42-30.
Continentals were led by Ephraim McDowell with a game high 22 pts (6x10 fg, 4x6 3's, 6x6 ft) in 36 minutes. Greg Newton had 12 pts (4x7 fg, 1x3 3's, 3x4 ft) and Pat Sullivan added 10 pts (3x8 fg, 1x1 3's, 3x6 ft)

Utica College also placed 3 players in double figures led by Kevin Johnson with 15. James Patterson had 13 and Will Abrams chipped in with 11. The Pioneers suffered their 1st loss of the season after opening up with 3 wins.

Hamilton improves to 4-1 but will have their work cut out for them in their next contest as they travel to face the undefeated and 5th ranked Williams Ephs next Tuesday at 7:30 PM.         
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on December 06, 2010, 03:28:08 PM
Glad to see Hobart in the mix for the LL championship this season.  Disappointed I'll miss them when they travel out to Los Angeles later this month for the Thrivent tourney at CalLu.

Sounds like the Statesmen ran into a hot Yellow jacket team in the Wendy's tourney.  Tough loss, but one they can rebound from this weekend.

Keep the updates coming...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 10, 2010, 09:19:55 PM
Skidmore down 45-41 with 7 minutes to play uses a 12-1 spurt to take control of the game against Trinity (Conn.). Thoroughbreds hit their foul shots down the stretch and come away with a 61-56 win against the visiting Bantams.
Gerard O'Shea led Skidmore and was the game's high scorer with 15 pts. Kyle Clark had 11, John Mantas had 11 and Terron Victoria added 10. Skidmore improves to 6-2 and is now off until January 5th when they host the Norwich Cadets.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 11, 2010, 11:30:37 PM
Hobart travels to Rochester and avenges their 80-77 loss a week ago in the Wendy's Classic, by downing the Yellowjackets 86-78. Down 44-40 early in the 2nd half the Statesmen use a 13-3 run to grab a 53-47 advantage and are never headed. Hobart is up by 7 with 1:30 to go, when Rochester starts the foul parade. Between them, Stefan Thompson and Matt Pebole go 12 for 12 from the line down the stretch to close out Rochester. Thompson led all scorers with 28 pts as he was 5x8 from the field, 2x4 from long distance and a perfect 16x16 from the line. Pebole was close behind with 23 pts (8x13 fg, 3x3 3's, and 4x4 ft), while Rezin Davis was 4 of 5 from downtown for a total of 12 pts.

Nate Novosel led the Yellowjackets with 23 pts(8x11 fg, 7x9 ft).

Hobart improves to 6-2 on the season and the Statesmen are off until December 29th when they travel to Thousand Oaks, California to take on the Cal Lutheran Kingsmen in a holiday tournament.  
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 12, 2010, 04:18:11 AM
Hamilton travels to Elmira and pounds the Soaring Eagles 88-46. No surprises there. the Continentals improve to 5-2 on the year.

St. Lawrence travels to winless Keuka and give the Storm a present as they can't hold onto an 8 pt. lead. Up 49-41 with 9:04 left to play the Saints manage to score 2 points for the remainder of the game. They missed their final 13 shots from the field and turned the ball over twice. Ralph Temgoua's 2 free throws with 6:24 remaining were the final points St. Lawrence would score. At the time it gave the Saints a 51-43 lead, but Keuka would end the game on a 9-0 run, capped by 2 free throws with 8 seconds left. The Saints with 1 last chance to pull out a victory, but turn the ball over to end the game. This has to be a low point in SLU hoops history. I thought this team would be right in the thick of things fighting for a conference title, but after a performance like Saturday night I wonder if they'll even come close to making the LL playoffs. Right now I don't see that happening. SLU falls to 3-5 for the season and are now off until January 4th when they travel to Brockport for a game against the Golden Eagles at 7 PM.       
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on December 13, 2010, 03:03:22 PM
After the whipping they gave us last week, hard to believe this score.

Keuka going into the game was winless, and ranked last out of 412 D-III teams in the country.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 14, 2010, 11:13:16 PM
Union improves to 5-1 as they defeat visiting Utica College 89-80 behind Justin Gallo's 29 points. A fairly even 1st half saw back and forth action that featured 7 lead changes with 4 ties. The largest lead was by the Pioneers at 34-28 and came with 3:47 left in the period. The Dutchmen fought back to tie it up once again, but Utica's Kevin Johnson hits a jumper with 2 seconds left to give the Pioneers a 38-36 lead at the break. It was the last time Utica would have the lead, however, as Gallo was fouled on a 3 point attempt 14 seconds into the 2nd half. Gallo stepped up to the line and made all 3 foul shots to give the Dutchmen a 39-38 lead they would never relinquish. Union outscored Utica 20-8 over the next 7 minutes to take a 56-46 lead and the Pioneers never had a chance for the lead after that. They got it to 76-73 on a basket by Will Abrams with 4:32 left but 2 unanswered buckets by the Dutchmen built it back up to 7 and Union hit 6 of 7 free throws down the stretch. In addition to Gallo's 29 points (10x18 fg, 4x10 3's, 5x5 ft) Kevin Donohue had a solid game with 20 points (7x13 fg, 4x8 3's, 2x2 ft). Evan Croll had 13 pts (5x9 fg, 1x2 3's, 2x3 ft) and Joe Mason had a double-double with 11 pts (5x10 fg, 1x3 3's) and 12 assists.

James Patterson with 22, Kevin Johnson with 17, Almir Gredelj with 11 and Will Abrams with 10 were the leaders for the Pioneers.

Union will now travel south over the holidays to Daytona Beach to play in the Land of Magic classic. They take on St. Scholastica, from Duluth Minnesota on Wednesday 12-29 at 2 PM and the next day face Berry College from Mount Berry Georgia at 4 PM. Berry College is an independent provisional member of NCAA D3.    
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3lifer on December 15, 2010, 06:18:38 AM
A strong start for Union a good win tonight over a Utica team that has had some solid wins during the first semester. Also Union mascot is not the Statesman that would be Hobart. Union's mascot would be the Dutchmen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3lifer on December 15, 2010, 10:42:06 AM
As of right now...heading into a couple of weeks where most teams are idle I would put teams in the following spots:
1. Hobart
2. Skidmore
    Hamilton
    Union
3. RPI
    Clarkson
4. St. Lawrence
5. Vassar

I feel it is somewhat difficult to separate the groupings of teams at 2 and 3 particularly because there hasn't been much difference in the overall strength of schedule. Of course that is only by eye ball test of everyone schedule to date. Hobart has in my opinion played the most rigorous schedule to this point and losses to above average teams have been close. It will be very interesting to see if there are teams that can get some distance early on in the conference schedule. However Union however starts off with 5 on the road in the league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dlippiel on December 15, 2010, 02:38:56 PM
A nice W for the Dutchman over Utica. Seems as if Justin Gallo is carrying his talents from the football field onto the court. Gallo was simply nasty on the hardwood  :) at Hudon Valley Community College before transfering over to Union to play football with his brother. dlip is strating to really get an idea of just how good an athlete this kid is. Good luck to Justin and the Dutchman here in 2010-2011.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 21, 2010, 09:44:18 PM
Matt Pebole was named to the D3hoops Team of the Week on December 14th for his 23 point effort in Hobart's win over Rochester on December 11th.

Phil Barera of Ithaca was also named to the D3hoops Team of the Week for the same period.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 30, 2010, 01:55:42 AM
Clarkson ups their record to 6-2 with a 68-60 overtime win on the road at City College of NY. Rey Jefferson led the Golden Knights with 24 points as he had 6 triples, 6 rebounds, 5 steals and 3 assists. Felix Llanos had 19 points, with 5 boards and 5 assists. Jonathan Hood almost had a double-double with 10 pts and 9 rebounds. The Knights struggled early from the outside hitting only 3 of 14 from beyond the arc in the 1st half, but they nailed 6 treys in the 2nd half and hit their 1st 3 shots in overtime from 3 point land to open a up lead that ultimately became the largest of the game.

Clarkson will next travel to Williamstown Mass. to take on Elms College at the Williams College Tournament on January 2nd at 7 PM. The next day they face Westfield State at 3 PM.

Rey Jefferson and Jonathan Hood were both chosen to the most recent Liberty League Team of the Week. Freshman Marques Charlton was chosen as the Rookie of the Week.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 30, 2010, 02:29:14 AM
Hobart flys to California and does what so many teams from the east do when they go west---lose. The Statesmen drop a 70-65 decision to Cal Lutheran in a game that really wasn't that close.

Hobart got out of the gate slowly and found themselves down by 11 at 16-5, 8 minutes into the game. The 1st half lead grew to 15 before Hobart narrowed it to 10 at the half 32-22. The 2nd half was more of the same as the Kingsmen built a 21 point lead with 9:25 left to play. The Statesmen went on a 21 to 9 spurt to cut the lead to single digits 61-52 with 2:10 remaining but Cal Lu scored 4 unanswered points to build it back to 13 and only some poor free throw shooting by the Kingsmen in the final minute allowed Hobart to close within 5. Stefan Thompson and Matt Pebole led Hobart with 17 and 15 points respectively.
The Kingsmen outshot the Statesmen in all categories, 50% to 37% from the field, 55%to 33% from beyond the arc, and 65% to 52% from the line.

Hobart drops to 6-3 overall and will now take on Gettysburg in the consolation game Thursday evening.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 30, 2010, 03:21:57 AM
Union travels to Florida for the Land of Magic Classic and defeats St. Scholastica in overtime 84-80 as they improve to 6-1 on the season.

On Thursday afternoon they play Berry College to try and make it 2 for 2 in Daytona Beach.

Union's Justin Gallo and Kevin Donohue were both named to the Liberty League's
most recent team of the week.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on December 30, 2010, 09:49:19 AM
Magic...  my local D3 team Webster, beat Berry by 5 last week in a tourney at Sewanee.... Webster is one of the favorites to win the SLIAC (St Louis) conference, a conference justifiably considered to be 'low-level' D3...  a very rare opportunity for me to get a comparison with my old, old stomping grounds.....  Union... great coaches back then... Gary Walters, Bill Scanlon....  and of course Jimmy Tedisco
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 30, 2010, 03:50:03 PM
Quote from: hopefan on December 30, 2010, 09:49:19 AM
Magic...  my local D3 team Webster, beat Berry by 5 last week in a tourney at Sewanee.... Webster is one of the favorites to win the SLIAC (St Louis) conference, a conference justifiably considered to be 'low-level' D3...  a very rare opportunity for me to get a comparison with my old, old stomping grounds.....  Union... great coaches back then... Gary Walters, Bill Scanlon....  and of course Jimmy Tedisco

I saw the result of the Webster-Berry game. Webster still not showing a box score but went to Berry's website and got one. Berry has been competitive in all their games. Their worst loss was by only 6 points 80-74, to your new buddies at Rust University. You're right this will be a good game to make comparisons. I think Union has a chance to make the playoffs for the Liberty League tournament this year, but right now I would rank them as somewhere between 3rd and 5th in the league pecking order.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 30, 2010, 07:00:51 PM
Union completes a successful trip to Florida as they defeat the Berry College Vikings this afternoon 83-62. The Dutchmen improve to 7-1 overall and they're back in action on January 3rd when they host Ramapo College from the New Jersey Athletic Conference in the first round of the Sig Makofski Invitational at 8 PM. UMASS-Dartmouth will play Trinity(Conn) in the other 1st round game at 6 PM. The consolation and championship games will take place on January 4th at 6 PM and 8 PM respectively.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 31, 2010, 12:19:20 AM
Hobart earns a split on their west coast trip as they beat Gettysburg, another eastern team, 67-46. Gettysburg scored the 1st point of the game but Hobart quickly took control of the game with a 15-4 run to go up by double digits and were never headed. Hobart's Stefan Thompson was the leading scorer in the game with 20 points on 9x15 fg, 6 assists, 3 steals and just missed a double-double with 9 rebounds. Matt Pebole did manage a double-double with 16 points and 12 boards. The Statesmen improve to 7-3 overall and will host Potsdam State on January 4th at 7 PM in their final non-conference game of the season before taking on Hamilton to start Liberty League play on January 10th.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 03, 2011, 05:05:07 PM
Former SLU guard Josh Sharlowe is off to a pretty good start playing for the London Leopards Division 1 Professional team in England. Through 9 games Josh is averaging 14.1 points per game. Twice he has scored 20 points in a game, 19 in a game and 17 in another game, leading the team in scoring in all 4 of those games. He's had double figures in 7 of the 9 games he's played in.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 03, 2011, 09:09:34 PM
Union Dutchmen leading #20 Ramapo 45-36 at the half. Union's Justin Gallo with 18 points is the only player on either team in double figures at the break. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 03, 2011, 11:52:38 PM
Big win for the Union College Dutchmen tonight as they beat #20 Ramapo 97-88 to improve to 8-1 on the season. Ramapo managed to get the lead early on and slowly increase it to double figures at 27-17 with 10:37 left in the 1st half. Union powered by Justin Gallo's 18 1st half points outscored the Roadrunners 26-6 over the next 9 minutes to grab their own 10 point lead at 43-33. The Dutchmen went into the locker room with a 45-36 advantage. The Roadrunners came out of the break and slowly trimmed the lead until they tied the game at 58 with 10:20 left to play. Several lead changes and 4 more ties ensued before the Dutchmen down 69-67 went on a 13-3 spurt and Ramapo never came closer that 6 points after that.
Justin Gallo was the games high scorer and led 4 Union players in double figures with 34 points (9x18 fg, 6x12 3's, 10x12 ft). Gallo also had 7 rebounds. Joe Mason scored 21 points (7x15 fg, 1x5 3's, 6x7 ft) with 9 assists and 8 steals. Kevin Donohue had 14 points and Drew Goldstein added 13. Matt Covucci was a force inside collecting a game high 13 rebounds to go along with 6 points and 3 blocks.

Union will try and win their own Sig Makofski Invitational Tournament on Tuesday night at 8 PM as they take on Trinity College who defeated UMASS-Dartmouth earlier tonight 76-68. Ramapo will play UMD in the consolation game at 6 PM

Union will then travel to New York City this Saturday to take on Division I Columbia University at 4 PM in a final tune up before they open Liberty League play and host Skidmore on Tuesday January 11th at 8 PM.

Both Justin Gallo and Joe Mason were named to the Liberty League Performers of the Week team as Union went to Florida and defeated St. Scholastica and Berry College in the Land of Magic Classic at Daytona Beach. Gallo averaged 25.5 pts and 7 rebounds in the 2 games. This was Gallo 2nd time on the league's weekly honor roll this year. Mason averaged 15 pts, 8 assists and 4 steals in the Florida games. He had a then, career best, 6 steals against Berry College, but topped that effort tonight against Ramapo with 8 steals.

I think Union is serving notice to the rest of the Liberty League that they are a team that will certainly be in the mix for playoff consideration. That Skidmore-Union confrontation in 8 days will be interesting.   

   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dlippiel on January 04, 2011, 12:25:15 PM
dlip is very happy for the Dutchman's early season success. Justin Gallo is really playing well right now. dlip wishes the Dutch good luck tonight in the tourney championship and this weekend when they face off against Columbia.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 09, 2011, 03:41:44 PM
Saw Union came close against Columbia yesterday. Anyone know anything about the game other than the stats?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 15, 2011, 04:23:32 AM
Results of Friday night's games.

All the home teams won. Thought Clarkson and Union might pick up road wins but that didn't happen. Surprised at how badly St. Lawrence got beat by RPI.

Hobart wins an important contest with Skidmore as these 2 look to be the early choices to win the regular season crown and host the playoffs.

Skidmore   71   Hobart   76     
   
Union   50   Hamilton   55     
   
Clarkson   54   Vassar   57   
   
St. Lawrence   52   RPI   85     
   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 15, 2011, 10:13:03 AM
Magic...  how bout dem Engineers??!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 15, 2011, 02:54:49 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 15, 2011, 04:23:32 AM
Results of Friday night's games.

All the home teams won. Thought Clarkson and Union might pick up road wins but that didn't happen. Surprised at how badly St. Lawrence got beat by RPI.

Hobart wins an important contest with Skidmore as these 2 look to be the early choices to win the regular season crown and host the playoffs.

Skidmore   71   Hobart   76     
   
Union   50   Hamilton   55     
   
Clarkson   54   Vassar   57   
   
St. Lawrence   52   RPI   85     
   


I think I'll hold off judgment on Skidmore until after today's game against Hamilton, as far as them being in the top 2, though it's clear to see they should expect to be in the conference tourney this year. Hobart seems like they are ahead of everybody else and, if I had to guess, they will probably be hosting the tournament.

It is obvious, however, that teams from the north have taken a tumble from the league's elite. St. Lawrence got throttled by RPI and Clarkson lost to ... Vassar.

Meanwhile, Union, which got off to a hot start and played it close against D-I Columbia, has fallen hard to start the league season.

Hamilton might just get lucky and squeak into the fourth spot in the league in their final season as an LL member. I didn't think that would be the case, but they beat Union last night, and I'm not sure who might squeeze them out of the tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 16, 2011, 01:59:02 AM
Results of Saturday night's games.

Union   68   Hobart   88   Final 
   
Clarkson   60   RPI   66   Final   
   
Skidmore   75   Hamilton   72   Final 
   
St. Lawrence   71   Vassar   56   Final


Standings after this weekend's games

1.   Hobart       3-0

2.   RPI             2-0

3.   Skidmore    2-1

4.   SLU             1-1

4.   Vassar         1-1

6.   Hamilton      1-2

7.   Clarkson      0-2

8.   Union           0-3

   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 16, 2011, 05:03:47 PM
Quote from: hopefan on January 15, 2011, 10:13:03 AM
Magic...  how bout dem Engineers??!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

hopefan,
I think they will make the Liberty League playoffs this year. I guessing they will finish in 3rd or 4th place for the regular season. Of their 4 losses, 2 of them were to highly ranked Williams and Middlebury. When the season started I thought that St. Lawrence, Hobart, and Skidmore would duke it out for the top spot and then Union had an impressive start going 8-1 to enter into the mix. 

Since then however St. Lawrence has been so inconsistent they may not make the playoffs. They lose to 1-10 Keuka, the weakest school in one of the weakest conferences in D3 and yet on January 5th they travel to Oswego and beat the SUNYAC leaders 58-57. That was a day after they barely lost to 2nd place Brockport 75-71 at Brockport. And how do they follow those 2 games? By getting blown out by your Engineers 85-52.

Union is also on a downward spiral and today I discovered that their leading scorer Justin Gallo didn't play the last 2 games and played very little in the game before that. He also is no longer  listed on the roster, and has been deleted from many of their season stats. Haven't heard a word about that. Hoping someone can fill in the details. He was an excellent receiver on Union's football team (3rd most receiving yards in school history, I believe) and didn't play basketball until this year, his senior year. He was averaging over 17 ppg so that will hurt the Dutchmen.

RPI's chances of finishing in the top 4 are definitely improving. I think you'll enjoy checking up on them more this year than you did last year. ;D

Sadly this board is in worse shape than your SLIAC board. Very few posters and not much discussion. I come on when I have time and post results, so keep checking in.
 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 16, 2011, 05:09:34 PM
Thanks Magic.. I may attempt to step up my communications with old buddie Mike griffin and add anything I can find out about RPI....   kind of disappointing about the lack of activity in this room considering it is so entertaining in the LL football room... wish those guys would support the hoops teams too!!..   When I was a b ball player at RPI, the football players came to our parties!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 16, 2011, 05:24:44 PM
Quote from: hopefan on January 16, 2011, 05:09:34 PM
Thanks Magic.. I may attempt to step up my communications with old buddie Mike griffin and add anything I can find out about RPI....   kind of disappointing about the lack of activity in this room considering it is so entertaining in the LL football room... wish those guys would support the hoops teams too!!..   When I was a b ball player at RPI, the football players came to our parties!!!! ;D ;D ;D

It is funny that the LL football posters never seem too interested in hoops. Dlip made a brief appearance when Union was hot, but he has been the only one in the past several years. I guess those guys have so much fun year round on the football board, they just stay there. :(
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 18, 2011, 03:47:04 PM
I am happy to see Hobart's 3-0 start to LL play, but yeah, I generally am more of a football than BB fan.

That said it's great to see the Statesmen off to such a great start.  Embedded in the link below is a youtube clip with Coach Metz's (H98) reactions after beating the Dutch by 20.

Hobart beats Union, Coach's reaction (http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2011/1/15/HBB_0115114358.aspx?path=mbball)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 20, 2011, 10:26:50 PM
Come on Golden Knights- a L to Vassar - not good. Looks to be the year of the Statesmen but I am pretty removed these days.  Figure that excellent recruiting class of 2008 for the Throughbreds may also figure into the final fray.  SLU and Hamilton look down and RPI will always by around in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 22, 2011, 03:01:43 AM
Results of Friday night's games.

Skidmore 65 Clarkson 57
Knights remain winless in league play. Skidmore now tied with RPI for the 2nd spot

Hamilton 73 RPI 66  
Engineers lose a home game to the one team they could least afford to. Now their playoff hopes may come down to the last game of the reguar season when they have to play the Continentals in Clinton.

Saint Lawrence 72  Union 66  
Saints move into 4th place by themselves. Union's freefall continues as they lose their 6th straight game.

Hobart 88  Vassar  57
Hobart takes sole possession of 1st place and is the only unbeaten team in the conference. Vassar will duke it out with Clarkson and Union for the other end of the standings.


Saturday's games: All will start at 4 PM

Hamilton @ Vassar
Hamilton will win this game and could move into 3rd place. Continentals 76-61  

Hobart  @ RPI
Statesmen win but Engineers keep it close. Hobart 81-75  

Union  @ Clarkson
Tough game to pick but I think Clarkson gets into the LL win column here 70-66  

Skidmore   @ St. Lawrence
St. Lawrence could move from 4th to 2nd with a win here. Biggest question is which SLU team will show up. My head says Skidmore as they've been more consistent but my heart say SLU. It's time this team turned their season around. Saints in a barnburner 69-67.





 
 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 22, 2011, 06:49:12 PM
Finally a league win for my Knights.  Props to Magic believe he called every game correctly.  4 for 4!!  The man knows his hoops!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 23, 2011, 06:42:51 AM
Saturday's results:

Hamilton 84  Vassar 44
A bigger margin than I predicted but it's not cool to predict a win by more than 20.  :D

Hobart 83  RPI 75
I had it 81-75. Can't get much closer than that

Clarkson 70 Union 65
Well, I guess I can, I had it 70-66. ;D

St. Lawrence 74 Skidmore 66
Sometimes it pays to go with your heart. I had it 69-67 SLU.  Bigger margin than I thought as the Saints behind a career best 29 points from Ralph Temgoua run away from the ponies. I almost had Skidmore's score though.
Saints use a 15-1 run midway through the 2nd half to turn a 6 point deficit into an 8 point advantage and Skidmore never gets closer than 4 after that. SLU also moves into 2nd place all by themselves.  

Here are the standings heading into next week's action. Top 4 places right now are exactly as the pre-season coaches poll had them ranked. Long way to go yet. 

1.  Hobart                  5-0
2.  SLU                      3-1
3.  Skidmore               3-2  Holds tiebreaker over Hamilton & RPI
4.  Hamilton                3-2  Holds tiebreaker over RPI
5.  RPI                       3-2
6.  Clarkson                1-3
7.  Vassar                   1-4
8.  Union                     0-5

Another battle for 1st place next week as SLU travels to Hobart then Hamilton. Skidmore and RPI will duke it out next Saturday to try and improve their position.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 23, 2011, 08:24:17 AM
Quote from: with age came? on January 22, 2011, 06:49:12 PM
Finally a league win for my Knights.  Props to Magic believe he called every game correctly.  4 for 4!!  The man knows his hoops!!

with age,
My ultimate goal is to nail both ends of a score right on the money. My second goal is to come close on the point spread. Don't think I'll do any better all year than I did with your Knights on Saturday afternoon. Glad to see them get a league win. I saw them play when they came to town against the Cardinals. Solid, scrappy team with good fundamentals, they've been in most every game and the loss to Vassar is probably one that got away and may come back to haunt them. They are starting 2 freshmen now that they don't have their 6'6" senior George Koduah. Don't know if he used up his eligibility or if he got hurt but he hasn't been around in the new year. It leaves them a little short for experienced bigs, and doesn't look good for a top 4 finish for the Knights. Now what's all this stuff about having to root for Oswego. ???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 23, 2011, 09:08:19 AM
After the first 5 (4 for St. Lawrence and Clarkson) league games, it's apparent that Hobart is the class of the LL. Now, St. Lawrence is 3-1, but I'm not sure they belong in elite status yet. I'd still group them in the bunch that's 3-2 -- Skidmore, Hamilton and RPI. Skidmore, I thought, was going to be right there with Hobart, but they stumbled this weekend.

Magic, how would you rank these teams in the LL hierarchy?

Clarkson will pose problems for teams in the second time through the schedule, though it seems like they won't make the top four. Vassar being toward the bottom of the standings isn't that much of a surprise, though.

That Union is at the bottom of the standings -- and winless in the league -- is somewhat surprising, given their 8-2 record coming into league play. But, as was previously mentioned here, Gallo is not on the team anymore, taking his 17 point a game average with him. What also is hurting them is the absence of guard Joe Mason, who apparently hurt his ankle in their game against Columbia and hasn't played in any league contests.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 24, 2011, 06:14:03 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on January 23, 2011, 09:08:19 AM
After the first 5 (4 for St. Lawrence and Clarkson) league games, it's apparent that Hobart is the class of the LL. Now, St. Lawrence is 3-1, but I'm not sure they belong in elite status yet. I'd still group them in the bunch that's 3-2 -- Skidmore, Hamilton and RPI. Skidmore, I thought, was going to be right there with Hobart, but they stumbled this weekend.

Magic, how would you rank these teams in the LL hierarchy?

buck,
I'd rank them pretty much the way the standings are right now. I would probably flip flop SLU and Skidmore though. Earlier I thought St. Lawrence would battle Hobart for the top spot but the Saints have been too inconsistent and the loss of graduated point guard Josh Sharlow has been tough to fill. SLU is averaging almost 11 points per game and 4 assists per game below last year's numbers.
Saints came on strong last year finishing 12-3 in conference games starting with a win over Skidmore on 1-23-10. After Saturday's win over the Thoroughbreds, almost a year to the day later,  they look to repeat that effort but I now think they'll fall short of those goals. Hobart is where I think the LL playoffs will take place this year and the Statesmen have yet to lose at home. LL will only get 1 bid for the NCAA tournament if Hobart wins the playoffs as every other team in the league has no chance for a Pool C bid. If Hobart gets upset in the LL tournament and they continue to embellish that 13-3 record they'll be in the running for a Pool C bid. That's the only scenario that would see 2 LL teams dancing.

Skidmore and SLU will duke it out for 2nd place and 3rd place,with the Saints having a slight edge right now. One thing in Skidmore's favor is the 2 road wins at Hamilton and Clarkson while the Saints only road win is at Vassar. SLU has yet to play Hamilton, Clarkson or Hobart, much less play them on the road as Skidmore has done. Hamilton and RPI will look to gain the final playoff spot but with Hamilton beating the Red Hawks in Troy the other day it clearly puts the pressure on RPI. They have to win that rematch at Hamilton on the last day of the regular season Feb. 19th, would be my guess. Maybe not, because they get real hot, or the Continentals get real cold but I'm betting neither of those things happen. It's Hamilton's last year in the league and they may not go out as the winner but they'll go down fighting. The bottom 3 spots will go to Clarkson, then Union, with Vassar bring up the rear.

That's the way I think it goes down, buck.  What are your thoughts. I know you've followed the league on a regular basis and I respect your imput . Need more of it is all, as this board gets kinda quiet. ;)   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 24, 2011, 10:10:16 PM
C'mon Magic - what did you do with that point for Union?  (Just kidding) Koduah elected to leave the team and focus on graduating.  He could have played.  Son #1 tried to change his mind but could not. Now team will I think suffer inside and pretty much live or die by outside shooting of Llanos and other guards. Hood is strong slasher but at about 6'3" he can not "dominate" a bigger team.  Haven't seen the freshman play so this is solely on last years observations.  If Knights can pull off upset over the Saints tomorrow it will really create an interesting logjam.  However I believe the Saints will win a close game.  As for the league I agree I think Hobart is the clear frontrunner with the next closest competitor being Skidmore. I envisioned that with their recruiting class from 3 years ago.  After that I think playoff teams will be Saints and Hamilton with RPI on the outside.  Loss to Vassar will be Clarkson's bane.  As far as the Laker's - just really like Stockwell alot - I'll root for the Cards in every other game though!! :D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 25, 2011, 08:30:04 PM
Tonight's games
Middlebury      Hamilton      Postponed
The game which had been rescheduled from Jan. 18th because of adverse weather has been postponed again because of an unplayable surface at Hamilton's field house. 

   
Williams      Skidmore      7:00 PM LS
Thoroughbreds take on #6 Williams. This one won't be close as Ephs win by double digits, 82-65.
   
Clarkson      St. Lawrence
North Country bragging rights on the line and Saints not ready to relinquish their supremecy. SLU 72-64 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on January 25, 2011, 09:47:51 PM
Looks like Clarkson shot light out from long range and defeated SLU 63-55

Balance scoring on both sides with 9 players hitting double figures in points.

Clarkson playing small without Koduah for second semester, but picked up a much needed LL road win.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 25, 2011, 11:09:18 PM
Quote from: thebear on January 25, 2011, 09:47:51 PM
Looks like Clarkson shot light out from long range and defeated SLU 63-55

Balance scoring on both sides with 9 players hitting double figures in points.

Clarkson playing small without Koduah for second semester, but picked up a much needed LL road win.

I watched it on live stats. SLU couldn't hit the ocean. Started the game missing their 1st 4 shots and ended the half missing their last 8 shots. Up 16-13 with 6 minutes left in the period they never scored another point as the Knights outscored them 14-0 to go up 27-16 at the break. SLU fought back and finally tied the score at 42 with 7:05 to play on an old fashioned 3 point play by Jon Goldberg. Clarkson would not relinquish the lead however and after 3 more ties the Knights got back to back 3 pointers. First was a triple from Shawn Lasalita, who then stole the ball, resulting in another 3 pointer by Rey Jefferson. Another Lasalita steal, a Clarkson free throw and the Knights opened a 7 point lead with 2:36 to play. Knights hit 7 of 8 free throws down the stretch to seal the victory.
Nate Uline led Clarkson with 14 points and 9 rebounds. Jefferson(4) and Lasalita(3) had 7 triples between them as they both scored 13 points. Marques Charlton had 11 and Felix Llanos added 10. Clarkson had 11 3's to only 4 for St. Lawrence.
Garrett Sharlow led the Saints with 11 points and 11 rebounds. Ralph Temgoua, Nick Meunier, and Jon Goldberg all had 10 points each.

Hobart is happy as their 1st place lead just got bigger. 4 teams with 3-2 records now tied for second, 2 games behind the 5-0 Statesmen.

1 of 2 with my picks tonight as the Knights pull the upset. I did have the correct winning margin of 8 points though. :D

Pretty close with the other game as the final score was Williams 84 Skidmore 61. My guess of 82-65 was 2 points more than the 145 total and the MOV was also in the ballpark.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 26, 2011, 12:37:19 AM
Guess I have to get back on Knight bandwagon!!  Live by the 3 die by the 3.  This is without a doubt the best victory of the season for the Knights and like all of their wins it came against a sub .500 team.  However wins against the Saints are always sweet.  It certainly makes places 2-6 interesting and believe it or not I think the win may keep Union's faint hopes alive.  They have alot of home games left and they are dangerous at home.  I still assume that Vassar will be in the basement.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 26, 2011, 04:51:45 PM
Any predictions on Hobart vs. SLU? 

It's been a few seasons since the Statesmen could be considered "favorites" over the Larries in hoops...

Go 'Bart!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 28, 2011, 08:00:15 PM
Friday night's Liberty League schedule:

St. Lawrence   @   Hobart      8:00 PM
Hard to believe the Saints can roll into Geneva and beat the Statesmen. Hobart stays perfect at home and in league play winning 85-76.     
 
RPI   @   Union    8:00 PM
Union's freefall continues, at least for 1 more game. RPI takes this one 75-66. 

Clarkson  @   Hamilton      8:00 PM
Clarkson tries for back to back conference road wins. Hamilton won't let that happen. Continentals 73-64. 
 
Vassar @  Skidmore      8:00 PM
Vassar waiting for Bard to join the LL. This one won't be close as Brewers are losing to teams with winning records by 30+ points.  Skidmore 86-52.
   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 28, 2011, 09:21:47 PM
Halftime Scores:

Hobart 45 SLU 37

Skidmore 49 Vassar 28

Hamilton 35 Clarkson 32

RPI 35  Union 33




Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 28, 2011, 10:02:57 PM
Final Scores

RPI   65   Union 58

Skidmore  86 Vassar  52     more about this one later

Hobart and St. Lawrence headed to overtime tied at 67

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 28, 2011, 10:12:14 PM
Hamilton defeats Clarkson 63-56.

SLU and Hobart tied in OT at 76 with 46 sec left.

SLU with 4  free throws now up 80-76 with 12 seconds left looks like the Saints will pull off the upset.

Hobart's Thompson goes to the line with 9 seconds left and makes 1st. He misses the 2nd and Hobart gets the rebound and takes a timeout with 6 seconds left. Now 80-77 and Statesmen will try for the game tying 3. Matt Pebole takes it with 4 seconds left misses, Hobart gets the rebound and misses again. Game over. St.  Lawrence wins 80-77.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 29, 2011, 05:09:29 AM
Quote from: magicman on January 28, 2011, 08:00:15 PM
Friday night's Liberty League schedule:

St. Lawrence   @   Hobart      8:00 PM
Hard to believe the Saints can roll into Geneva and beat the Statesmen. Hobart stays perfect at home and in league play winning 85-76.     
 
RPI   @   Union    8:00 PM
Union's freefall continues, at least for 1 more game. RPI takes this one 75-66. 

Clarkson  @   Hamilton      8:00 PM
Clarkson tries for back to back conference road wins. Hamilton won't let that happen. Continentals 73-64. 
 
Vassar @  Skidmore      8:00 PM
Vassar waiting for Bard to join the LL. This one won't be close as Brewers are losing to teams with winning records by 30+ points.  Skidmore 86-52.
   


St. Lawrence 80 Hobart 77   

I had the point total in the ballpark with my 85-76 guess and actually had the Saints winning until I thought about the Saints at Keuka.  I quickly changed my mind.
St. Lawrence continues to prove my assertion that they are the most inconsistent team in the East, if not all of D3. This game had upset written all over it but I just couldn't go with the Saints as much as I wanted them to win and make a race of the LL. After losing to Clarkson at home on Tuesday I had pretty much relegated St. Lawrence to Superman's Bizzarro world of basketball. Tonight's win proves that's where they belong.


RPI 65  Union  58

They each scored about 10 less points than I thought they would, but I had the winner and my MOV was close.



Hamilton 63 Clarkson 56

They each scored about 10 points less than I though they would, but I had the winner and my MOV was close ;D


Skidmore 86 Vassar 52
This score looks familiar. Very familiar!   In fact it's a match!!   :o ;D

This past Saturday when I missed the Clarkson-Union game by a point I told occasional poster  "with age" my ultimate goal was to nail both ends of a score right on the money. Figured that Clarkson game was as close as I would get.  I need to thank 2 players. First, Skidmore's 6'6" Freshman forward Perun Kovacevic who, with 5 seconds left in the game, and Skidmore winning by 36 points, 86-50, proceeded to foul Vassar's 6'8" freshman center Lucas Wager (Coach Burke will get on him for that. :D) Maybe it was the hometown crowd (Lucas plays for Vassar, however he is from Saratoga) or maybe he was just feeling it, but young Mr. Wager who is a 57% free throw shooter went 3 for 3 from the line Friday night, including those all important final 2 foul shots to make this old guy feel like Nostradamus. Thanks guys 8-)         
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 29, 2011, 11:20:18 AM
let's see... RPI crushes SLU

Hobart beats RPI at RPI

SLU beats Hobart at Hobart


yes Magic, bizzarro D3 LL Basketball world   ... and the engineer fans thank the Larries!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 29, 2011, 03:24:57 PM
Saturday's games   All start at 4 PM


Vassar   @   Union
Union's long national nightmare is over(for the time being) as they end their 8 game losing streak. Unfortunately Vassar is in the middle of one that could reach 13 games. Dutchmen down the Brewers 74-57.       
   
Clarkson  @    Hobart
Hobart won't let another one slip away. Statesmen over the Knights 86-72.     
   
St. Lawrence   @   Hamilton
Saints ripe for a fall after sky high win last night. Both teams looking to break out of 4 team 2nd place log jam. I picked the Saints over Hamilton in my pick em league earlier in the week because the schedule said they were the home team. When I found out the schedule was wrong I left the Larries as my pick knowing I'd jinx myself if I switched. Now if I pick them here I'm really gonnna press my luck. Oh well, Saints in another close one 73-70.
       
RPI   @   Skidmore
The other 2 teams fighting for 2nd place. Skidmore at home gets a slight edge over the Red Hawks. Thoroughbreds take this one 68-64.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on January 29, 2011, 04:57:32 PM
I feel like I jinxed the Statesmen....

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 29, 2011, 07:26:16 PM
Final scores from Saturday.

Skidmore 81  RPI  77

Hamilton 59 SLU 56  Maybe a Buzzer Beater here.

Hobart 107   Clarkson 71

Union 84  Vassar 48
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 31, 2011, 11:23:07 PM
The Magicman DOES IT!!   Gets game and score exact... everyday we inch closer to the games not needing to be played (just ask Magic!!) :D  Knights are maddenning and "stick a fork in them" they are done.  What is up with the Saints?? Beaten by Clarkson who loses to hobart by over 5 touchdowns??!!!! and then beats Statemen at Hobart!!!  Something is very wrong with that picture???!!  Still think Saints will be in the playoff picture and RPI will be on the outside.  Hobart Skidmore  and Hamilton will be top 3 and as the Larries (and my Golden Knights from 08 proved) at playoff time it's anybody's bid for the taking (to the d-3 dance that it is).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2011, 03:14:16 PM
First Regional Rankings: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/02/ncaas-mens-regional-rankings/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 04, 2011, 08:02:53 PM
Here's tonight's schedule. All games with an 8 PM start.

Hobart  @    Union      8:00 PM
Statesmen won earlier matchup by 20. This one is a little closer. Hobart 83-69.
   
RPI   @   Clarkson      8:00 PM
RPI needs this game to stay with SLU going into tomorow's showdown with the Saints. Red Hawks win it 78-71.
 
   
Hamilton   @   Skidmore      8:00 PM
Skidmore goes for season sweep over Continentals. I think they get it and win 80-74 
   
Vassar   @   St. Lawrence      8:00 PM
Saints should win by 30. Unless they pull a Keuka. SLU 81-50.

   


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 04, 2011, 09:05:27 PM
Halftime scores for all games.

SLU 37 Vassar 27

RPI 49 Clarkson 41

Skidmore 42 Hamilton 26

Hobart 33 Union 29 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 04, 2011, 10:07:13 PM
Skidmore all over Hamilton 71-55.
Big win for the Thoroughbreds as they open up some daylight in the battle for second and remain only a half game behind Hobart.

RPI defeats Clarkson 73-65.
The Red Hawks are tied with Hamilton for 3rd place both with 5-3 records but Hamilton owns the tiebreaker over RPI at the moment. SLU on the verge of joining them at 5-3. SLU would lose the tiebreaker to both teams.

Hobart beats back a determined Union team 72-64.
Hobart was in a tight battle with last place Union as the Dutchmen were only down 65-64 with 1:45 to play but the Statesmen prevail and pull away for the win.

St. Lawrence beats Vassar 77-56.
Saints make it a 3 way tie for 3rd place. All 3 teams will be in a battle through the last weekend of the season to see which two will grab the final playoff spots. I believe Hobart and Skidmore will claim the top 2 spots.

4-0 with my picks tonight.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 05, 2011, 04:09:46 PM

Today's schedule.

Hamilton  @    Union      4:00 PM
Continentals hoping to rebound from last night's loss to Skidmore. Union looking to recover from tough setback to Hobart. I almost think Union pulls one out here, but I'm going with Hamilton who comes out on top 76-71.   
   
Vassar   @   Clarkson    4:00  PM
Clarkson won't lose another one to the Brewers, will they? No way says "with age" Golden Knights 73-61. 
   
RPI  @    St. Lawrence   4:00  PM
Red Hawks hammered Saints in Troy 85-52. Are they that much better or did SLU have a bad day? I think the Saints get their revenge 72-68.     
   
Hobart   @   Skidmore      8:00 PM
Battle for 1st place fittingly takes place in Saratoga. The Statesmen should feel right at home. Hobart wins a close one 78-75. 
   

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 05, 2011, 04:53:54 PM
Halftime scores:

Clarkson 39 Vassar 18

RPI 31 St Lawrence 30

Hamilton 36 Union 34
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 05, 2011, 05:52:53 PM
Final scores.

RPI 72 St. Lawrence 56     
I had it 72-68 Saints.  At least I had one set of numbers right. Once again the Saints let me down. They soon will let themselves down as they may be on the outside looking in. They just dropped into 5th place and with the Red Hawks owning the season sweep the deficit is even bigger.

Clarkson 67  Vassar 50
I had it 73-61, so I wasn't too far off.

Hamilton 80 Union 71
My score was Hamilton 76-71. Almost nailed it.

Hobart 75 Skidmore 66
I had it 78-75 Hobart. If Skidmore would have been 5 for 20 instead of 1 for 20 to open the game I might have been perfect.


3-1 on the day.   7-1 for the weekend.    18-4  for the year and I think 3 of my losses have been St. Lawrence games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 05, 2011, 08:17:59 PM
Apparently the Hobart-Skidmore game was not at 8 PM since I just got a final score showing Hobart winning 75-66.
Skidmore couldn't buy a basket in the opening stanza as they went 1 for 20 to fall behind 33-5. The half ended with the Statesmen in front 40-15. The Thoroughbreds opened the 2nd half with a 12-0 run to pull within 13 at 40-27 and then made a late run to pull within 5 at 67-62 but that was as close as they would get. Hobart was led by Matt Pebole and Stefan Thompson with 21 and 20 points respectively. Melvis Langyintuo was the high man for Skidmore with 14 points.

Hobart inproves to 8-1 in the conference and opens up a 2 game lead over Skidmore in the loss column. Because Hobart owns a season sweep over Skidmore it's really like a 3 game lead.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 06, 2011, 02:26:03 AM
Think I would have gone bonkers if Knights lost to Brewers for a second time. SLU is so darn frustrating.  Tonights loss probably keeps them on the outside at playoff time. Hobart again proves who is the class fo the league.  Statesmen may have an outside chance at a pool c bid if they run the table and lose in the championship game.  Only way the LL sends 2 to the dance. Most likely we'll never know because Hobart does not look likely to get beat.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 08, 2011, 05:30:59 PM
Only 2 games tonight in the conference.

St. Lawrence at Clarkson 8:00 PM
Saints trying to avoid a Golden Knights sweep. I think the Saints shoot better this time around and come away with a 72-65 win.

Hobart at Hamilton 8:00 PM
The Statesmen look to open up a 2 game lead with 4 to play, and with the tiebreakers firmly in hand would make first place all but assured. Hamilton will play them tough but come up short. Hobart 74 Hamilton 69  
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 08, 2011, 09:47:55 PM
Hobart puts a stanglehold on 1st place as they nip Hamilton 70-67.  I wasn't too far off with my pick as I had it 74-69.

St. Lawrence wins a thriller 68-67 over Clarkson.  I had that one with SLU winning 72-65.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 08, 2011, 11:28:46 PM
Don't know if my Knights are mathematically eliminated but they should be.  Get to play spoiler this weekend for Senior (Alumni) weekend.  Chances are pretty slim for a win against Hobart but they may just play Hamilton and former coach Tobin Anderson tough.  May go up there for the Friday game just to see the Statesmen in action. Certainly they appear to be the class of the LL. Huge weekend for SLU if they can pull off an upset or even 2 they will have a good shot at the playoffs.  Think they have as good as shot at Hamilton as RPI now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 09, 2011, 01:17:58 AM
Quote from: with age came? on February 08, 2011, 11:28:46 PM
Don't know if my Knights are mathematically eliminated but they should be.  Get to play spoiler this weekend for Senior (Alumni) weekend.  Chances are pretty slim for a win against Hobart but they may just play Hamilton and former coach Tobin Anderson tough.  May go up there for the Friday game just to see the Statesmen in action. Certainly they appear to be the class of the LL. Huge weekend for SLU if they can pull off an upset or even 2 they will have a good shot at the playoffs.  Think they have as good as shot at Hamilton as RPI now.

If Clarkson is able to take down Hamilton this week, it would benefit St. Lawrence -- kind of interesting, seeing as they are traditional rivals -- as the Saints are currently tied in the standings. St. Law definitely needs to beat the Continentals, though, as Hamilton won their previous matchup. And I believe those two will battle it out for the final conference tourney spot. I don't know why, it's just a feeling, that Skidmore and RPI will be joining Hobart in the tourney, with Hamilton-St. Lawrence determining the final spot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 09, 2011, 01:46:12 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 08, 2011, 09:47:55 PM
Hobart puts a stanglehold on 1st place as they nip Hamilton 70-67. 

Close but we'll take it.

Go 'bart!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2011, 03:32:29 PM
Newest men's regional rankings are up. Pass it on:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/09/ncaas-2011-regional-rankings-week-2/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 09, 2011, 07:48:01 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2011, 03:32:29 PM
Newest men's regional rankings are up. Pass it on:

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/09/ncaas-2011-regional-rankings-week-2/

#3 in the East?  Sweet....

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 11, 2011, 06:33:49 PM
Four games on tap tonight. They all start at 8 PM.  The D3Hoops scoreboard says the Skidmore-RPI game is a 4 PM start but it doesn't tip off until 8 PM. The scoreboard also shows tomorrow's game of Hobart @ St Lawrence as an 8 PM start when it will tip off at 4 PM as will all of the Saturday games.

Skidmore  @    RPI
Thoroughbreds and Red Hawks battle it out for 2nd place. Skidmore won earlier contest by 4 points. RPI turns the tables 77-74       
   
Union  @    Vassar
Union finally escapes the cellar at the Brewers expense. Union 74-51         
   
Hobart   @   Clarkson
Statesmen must avoid looking ahead to Saturday's revenge match against St. Lawrence. Clarkson has to win out to have any hope of a playoff berth. Hobart will win 87-72.     
   
Hamilton  @    St. Lawrence
Saints fighting for a playoff berth and with Hobart and Skidmore left to play they can't afford to lose this game. Continentals beat the Saints on a buzzer beater off an inbounds steal 2 weeks ago. Don't think they get that lucky tonight. SLU takes the rematch 68-63. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 11, 2011, 11:46:56 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 11, 2011, 06:33:49 PM
Four games on tap tonight. They all start at 8 PM.  The D3Hoops scoreboard says the Skidmore-RPI game is a 4 PM start but it doesn't tip off until 8 PM. The scoreboard also shows tomorrow's game of Hobart @ St Lawrence as an 8 PM start when it will tip off at 4 PM as will all of the Saturday games.

Skidmore  @    RPI
Thoroughbreds and Red Hawks battle it out for 2nd place. Skidmore won earlier contest by 4 points. RPI turns the tables 77-74       
   
Union  @    Vassar
Union finally escapes the cellar at the Brewers expense. Union 74-51         
   
Hobart   @   Clarkson
Statesmen must avoid looking ahead to Saturday's revenge match against St. Lawrence. Clarkson has to win out to have any hope of a playoff berth. Hobart will win 87-72.     
   
Hamilton  @    St. Lawrence
Saints fighting for a playoff berth and with Hobart and Skidmore left to play they can't afford to lose this game. Continentals beat the Saints on a buzzer beater off an inbounds steal 2 weeks ago. Don't think they get that lucky tonight. SLU takes the rematch 68-63. 


Magic, you continue to show you know what's up.

RPI over Skidmore, 65-63. You were a little high on the point totals, but the differential was pretty damn close.

Union 79, Vassar 66 (The scoreboard has this reversed, but I double checked this and Union did indeed win this game to move out of the cellar at Vassar's expense).

Hobart 68, Clarkson 59. The Statesmen continue their dominance of the league.   
      
St. Lawrence 60, Hamilton 53. You had it a five-point differential, it winds up 7.

All four games right and all of your scores pretty close.

This is what the standings look like after tonight's games.
Hobart 10-1
RPI 7-3
St. Lawrence 7-4
Skidmore 7-4
Hamilton 6-5
Clarkson 3-8
Union 2-9
Vassar 1-10

Hobart has pretty much wrapped up the #1 seed, although I suppose some crazy finishes could change that. Just don't think it's going to happen.

RPI remains in a pretty good position, beating Skidmore to give those two a split for the season.

St. Lawrence moves from 5th to 3rd (by virtue of their current tiebreaker lead over Skidmore with a win in their first matchup. The two square off on the final weekend, a Friday night game at Skidmore.) the best improvement in the standings this week.

Hamilton drops into 5th place with their loss tonight. Union and Clarkson are both out of the playoffs but I see at least one of them impacting some team's playoff hunt.

Now, I'm going to try my hand at predicting Saturday's games, though I'm not picking the scores. I'm terrible at that.

Saturday's Games:

Union over RPI     
Clarkson over Hamilton              
Skidmore over Vassar        
St. Lawrence over Hobart
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 12, 2011, 02:36:39 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 11, 2011, 11:46:56 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 11, 2011, 06:33:49 PM
Four games on tap tonight. They all start at 8 PM.  The D3Hoops scoreboard says the Skidmore-RPI game is a 4 PM start but it doesn't tip off until 8 PM. The scoreboard also shows tomorrow's game of Hobart @ St Lawrence as an 8 PM start when it will tip off at 4 PM as will all of the Saturday games.

Skidmore  @    RPI
Thoroughbreds and Red Hawks battle it out for 2nd place. Skidmore won earlier contest by 4 points. RPI turns the tables 77-74       
   
Union  @    Vassar
Union finally escapes the cellar at the Brewers expense. Union 74-51         
   
Hobart   @   Clarkson
Statesmen must avoid looking ahead to Saturday's revenge match against St. Lawrence. Clarkson has to win out to have any hope of a playoff berth. Hobart will win 87-72.     
   
Hamilton  @    St. Lawrence
Saints fighting for a playoff berth and with Hobart and Skidmore left to play they can't afford to lose this game. Continentals beat the Saints on a buzzer beater off an inbounds steal 2 weeks ago. Don't think they get that lucky tonight. SLU takes the rematch 68-63. 


Magic, you continue to show you know what's up.

RPI over Skidmore, 65-63. You were a little high on the point totals, but the differential was pretty damn close.

Union 79, Vassar 66 (The scoreboard has this reversed, but I double checked this and Union did indeed win this game to move out of the cellar at Vassar's expense).

Hobart 68, Clarkson 59. The Statesmen continue their dominance of the league.   
      
St. Lawrence 60, Hamilton 53. You had it a five-point differential, it winds up 7.

All four games right and all of your scores pretty close.

This is what the standings look like after tonight's games.
Hobart 10-1
RPI 7-3
St. Lawrence 7-4
Skidmore 7-4
Hamilton 6-5
Clarkson 3-8
Union 2-9
Vassar 1-10

Hobart has pretty much wrapped up the #1 seed, although I suppose some crazy finishes could change that. Just don't think it's going to happen.

RPI remains in a pretty good position, beating Skidmore to give those two a split for the season.

St. Lawrence moves from 5th to 3rd (by virtue of their current tiebreaker lead over Skidmore with a win in their first matchup. The two square off on the final weekend, a Friday night game at Skidmore.) the best improvement in the standings this week.

Hamilton drops into 5th place with their loss tonight. Union and Clarkson are both out of the playoffs but I see at least one of them impacting some team's playoff hunt.

Now, I'm going to try my hand at predicting Saturday's games, though I'm not picking the scores. I'm terrible at that.

Saturday's Games:

Union over RPI     
Clarkson over Hamilton              
Skidmore over Vassar        
St. Lawrence over Hobart

Buck,
I wish you were right about my predictions but I did get one game wrong tonight and once again it's those darn Saints. Their schedule/results page on their website says they won that Hamilton game 60-53 but in reality they lost to  the Continentals 60-53. Had a bit of a surprise when I saw the D3hoops scoreboard and spotted the Union-Vassar score that had Vassar winning by the 79-66 margin. Glad to see I didn't get that wrong. Anyway the correct  standings are:

1  Hobart  10-1 
2  Rensselaer  7-3 
3  Skidmore  7-4  Owns the tiebreaker over Hamilton 
3  Hamilton  7-4    Owns the tiebreaker over St. Lawrence if needed
5  St. Lawrence  6-5 
6  Clarkson  3-8 
7  Union  2-9 
8  Vassar  1-9

Saints now on the outside looking in. Basically are 2 games behind Hamilton since the Continentals own the tiebreaker over SLU. I believe the 4 teams currently on top are your playoff teams. Bottom 3 teams are already eliminated. Saints have to win out and hope for help, but I think Hamilton wins at least 2 of their final 3 league games to slam the door on the Larries. In fact a win on Saturday by Hamilton over Clarkson, which I think will happen, and a loss on Saturday by St. Lawrence to Hobart, which I also think will happen, and the party's over for the Saints. My Liberty League record now stands at 23-5 and all 5 of those losses were games I picked involving St Lawrence. Picked them to win 4 times when they lost-- to Clarkson, Hamilton, RPI, and Hamilton again. Picked them  to lose against Hobart and they won.     
   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 12, 2011, 03:14:20 PM
4 games this afternoon all at 4 PM.

Union  @    RPI
This rivalry would have been better before the Dutchmen lost key performers. Still, anything can happen when these 2 tangle but I think RPI will win 74-63.       
 
   
Hamilton  @    Clarkson
Clarkson simply playing for pride, hoping to be a spoiler. St. Lawrence is certainly hoping their North Country neighbor will do just that as the Saints need all kinds of help. Hamilton will hear none of that as the Continentals take down the Golden Knights, 67-61.       
   
Skidmore  @    Vassar
Another lopsided loss for the Brewers. When they met 2 weeks ago I had the perfect prediction 86-52. Of course that was in Saratoga. Today in Poughkeepsie it'll be a little closer. Skidmore wins 84-56. I did say a "little" closer.         
   
Hobart   @   St. Lawrence
The Saints been killing me all year, no reason to have that change. I picked Hobart the last time these 2 met and got burned as the Saints won down there 80-77 in OT. I haven't learned my lesson, I'm picking Hobart again, 73-68.
       
   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 12, 2011, 08:42:03 PM
Today's results


Skidmore 60 at Vassar 46
Not as big a margin as I thought it would be. Vassar's progressing or Skidmore's bench got a lot of PT

 
Union 66 at Rensselaer 74
I almost nailed this one as I had it RPI 74-63
 
Hamilton 79 at Clarkson 50
Had the winner just thought it would be a closer game.
   
Hobart 64 at St. Lawrence 66
Once again SLU bites me and spoils my perfect record. Saints fighting like there's no tomorrow as their playoff chance are on life support.


They may be the only team that beats the conference champs, sweeping them no less, and yet not make the playoffs. Best the Saints can do in the conference is 9-5.  Hamilton at 8-4 is pretty much uncatchable. Unless by some miracle visiting Vassar could beat Hamilton next week, the Continentals are going to get a 9th win and that will prevent the Saints from moving ahead of them. Hamilton owns the tiebreaker over SLU by virtue of a season sweep. RPI at 8-3 also has a game left at home against Vassar. They would need to lose that game and their other 2 games in order for the Saints to have any chance of catching them. That won't happen as RPI will get a 9th win and also close out the Saints. Like Hamilton, RPI owns the tiebreaker over SLU with a season sweep. That will leave Skidmore as the only possible team that the Saints may be able to pass and get into the playoffs. Saints have to win both remaining games, against Skidmore and Union. If they do that they get to 9-5, Skidmore is at 9-5 and they Saints would own the tiebreaker over the Thoroughbreds. If however, Hamilton ends up at 9-5 along with SLU and Skidmore that would throw a real monkey wrench into the tiebreaker. If that happens I think (and I'm not positive about this at all) that St. Lawrence by virtue of a better record against the top 2 teams which would be Hobart and RPI (in order for the above 3 teams to all end up at 9-5 RPI has to finish in 1st or 2nd place with a 11-3 or 10-4 record) would end up in 3rd place. Then Skidmore and Hamilton would be left to go head to head. Skidmore wins by virtue of a season sweep and is placed 4th, which would leave the Continentals in 5th place and out of the playoffs. I couldn't find a link to the Liberty League rule book explaining tiebreakers, so I may be all wet with my supposition.

Ended up 3-1 for my picks on the day which makes my overall record 26-6.
 
   

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 14, 2011, 11:48:26 AM
Ugh - what is it with Hobart not being able to beat the Saints this season (not only in basketball but with other sports too)....?!?!?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 14, 2011, 12:30:21 PM
Did go up and check out the Statesmen vs the Knights.  Good scrappy game but Statesmen too much for the Knights.  Pebole is the real deal- good feet, can create for himself, and can step back for a 3 if needed.  Other bigs depend more on feeds and dishes off of drives by the other "motor" for the team Thompson and opportune put backs.  Thompson is quick and reminds me a little of the Josh Sharlow (the old point guard at SLU-though at this point he is not quite as strong or as physical).  He does have good quickness and it is a sweet advantage to have a point guard that shoots 80% from the line down the stretch in close games.  Hobart tries to force the temp by pressing pretty much non-stop.   LLewellyn (I may be mispelling his name) seems to be the one most entrusted to putting ball pressure on the dribbler and he does a good job at this altough offensively he does not seem as aggressive as he was in years past.  It might be that he does not have to be as the team has other options that were not there previously.  I am again amazed at the Saints inconsistency- losing to the Continentals and then beating Hobart.  That team just baffles me. However it does make for a wild and wooley last weekend!! 2 chairs for 3 teams (I am assuming that RPI beats Vassar and gets a spot).  But Hamilton, SLU and Skidmore have a true dogfight coming for those last 2 chairs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2011, 08:02:14 PM
Only 1 game on tap tonight in the League.

Vassar  @ RPI
This will be another double digit loss for the Brewers. RPI looking to move a full game ahead of their closest pursuers. Red Hawks 78-51.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2011, 10:37:36 PM
RPI as expected picks up a win against Vassar 70-50. Red Hawks go to their bench early and often as 15 players saw action and 12 different guys scored. RPI moves to 9-3.  I had it 78-51. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2011, 03:28:58 PM
Week 3 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/16/ncaa-2011-regional-rankings-week-3/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 18, 2011, 02:29:45 PM
Obviously there are two games this weekend to figure out the LL tourney field but I had a (somewhat stupid) question - how is the host determined (i.e., does it go to the #1 seed)?

I am guessing if Hobart wins out this weekend and is the #1 they would host the LL tourney weekend....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 18, 2011, 03:24:49 PM
Quote from: TGP on February 18, 2011, 02:29:45 PM
Obviously there are two games this weekend to figure out the LL tourney field but I had a (somewhat stupid) question - how is the host determined (i.e., does it go to the #1 seed)?

I am guessing if Hobart wins out this weekend and is the #1 they would host the LL tourney weekend....

TGP,
That is correct. The winner of the regular season gets the #1 seed. Right now it's Hobart's to lose. There is no way that the Statesmen will lose to Vassar on Saturday, so the important game is tonight against RPI. Win that game and you host the playoffs, which will be next weekend.  Even if you lose that game you could still host the playoffs if you win the tiebreaker over RPI, or if Hamilton beats the Red Hawks on Saturday. The tiebreaker over RPI (if RPI wins tonight and tomorrow) would be detemined by who finishes in 3rd place. Since Hobart swept both Hamilton and Skidmore, the only way they lose a tiebreaker to RPI is if St. Lawrence should end up in 3rd place. If the Saints come in 3rd then RPI will win the tiebreaker and host. I'm fairly certain that's correct.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 18, 2011, 08:41:50 PM
All teams in action tonight with playoff berths on the line.

RPI   @   Hobart
RPI will try to capture a share of 1st place but I think the Statesmen take care of business and clinch tonight   
   
Clarkson   @   Union
Union will get another win here and tie Clarkson in the standings.       
   
Vassar  @    Hamilton
Hamilton will win this one easily and also go into the playoffs in their final year in the League.     
   
St. Lawrence   @   Skidmore
I think Skidmore will put the Saints out of their misery tonight as the Thoroughbreds clinch a Playoff berth.       
   

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 18, 2011, 09:29:06 PM
RPI 72  Hobart 58 with 9 minutes left!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 18, 2011, 09:40:23 PM
RPI   75 - 64   4:15
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 18, 2011, 09:43:23 PM
RPI 79 - 67 2:56
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 18, 2011, 09:47:56 PM
here3 comes Hobart... 83 - 76    1:39
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 18, 2011, 09:52:10 PM
RPI  87 - 78   0:55
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 18, 2011, 09:55:07 PM
Final RPI  91   Hobart 78   Good win for the Engineers....  looking forward to the tourney...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 18, 2011, 10:33:04 PM
Quote from: hopefan on February 18, 2011, 09:55:07 PM
Final RPI  91   Hobart 78   Good win for the Engineers....  looking forward to the tourney...
It was a good win for the Red Hawks as they tie Hobart for the lead, but I think with St. Lawrence losing tonight Hobart will win any tiebreakers if they end up tied with RPI. RPI must still negotiate Hamilton at Hamilton tomorrow afternoon while Hobart has a guaranteed win against Vassar. Should they both win and finish 11-3, the head to head is even so they look at how each team did against the 3rd place team. IF RPI beats Hamilton the 3rd place team for sure will be Skidmore. Hobart beat them twice, while RPI split with them, so Hobart will become the top seed and host the tournament. RPI needed SLU to come in third to win any tiebreaker against Hobart. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 19, 2011, 02:54:19 AM
Think that Magic is right - that if Hobart wins vs Vassar (which should be very likely) they are the number one seed and host the tournament.  What I think could be interesting is the scenario for 2,3,  & 4 if all end up with 10-4 records which is very possible.  Hamilton is tough at home and RPI may have a "little let down" after road victory in Geneva.  Also think it is likely that Skidmore beats Clarkson to go to 10-4.  Of course I am really rooting for the Knights to pick up the "upset" and become ECAC eligible.  They actually might have a chance to go as there are not many non-playoff teams with winning records this year. SLU does not have a winning record for instance.  Do not think any non-playoff team in SUNYAC has an over .500 record either.  Think e-8 has a few but the tournament needs 4 team so stranger things have happpenned. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 19, 2011, 01:14:21 PM
Ugh - what's with Hobart running the table all season only to skid at the finish????!!!

I suppose all is not lost with the chance to clinch vs. Vassar, but not the way I was hoping the Statesmen would wrap up the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 19, 2011, 05:52:03 PM
66-57 HOB leads with about 6 mins to play...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 19, 2011, 06:04:55 PM
Bart opens a 20 pt lead with about 1 min to go 86-66. 

Congrats to the Statesmen on winning the LL title!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 19, 2011, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: TGP on February 19, 2011, 06:04:55 PM
Bart opens a 20 pt lead with about 1 min to go 86-66.  

Congrats to the Statesmen on winning the LL title!

TGP,
Slight correction. I believe officially they share the title with RPI. ;D  You won the top seed and the right to host. 8-)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 19, 2011, 07:44:02 PM
Final Scores from Saturday's action.

Hobart 86 Vassar 69  Statesmen cliinch the top seed and host the LL tourney

RPI 71 Hamilton 70

Skidmore 83 Clarkson 63

Union 70 St.Lawrence 55
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 19, 2011, 08:49:01 PM
Final Conference Standings

1.   Hobart     11-3          Hobart wins the top seed by virtue of a sweep of 3rd place Skidmore.  RPI split with them.
1.   RPI          11-3
3.   Skidmore  10-4
4.   Hamilton    9-5
5.   SLU          7-7
6.   Clarkson    4-10
7.   Union        3-11
8.   Vassar      1-13




Playoffs next Friday at Hobart.

Skidmore vs RPI at 6 PM

Hamilton  vs Hobart   8 PM

Championship Saturday afternoon at 3 PM
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 19, 2011, 09:42:34 PM
I for one am relieved that SLU missed the tourney.  They had our number this season!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 22, 2011, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 19, 2011, 08:49:01 PM
Playoffs next Friday at Hobart.

Skidmore vs RPI at 6 PM

Hamilton  vs Hobart   8 PM

Championship Saturday afternoon at 3 PM


RPI was picked to win the LL tourney by D3Hoops' "bracketology"

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/21/the-bracketology-scene/

Do you guys think Hobart won't win it on their home court?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 22, 2011, 05:48:03 PM
Quote from: TGP on February 22, 2011, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 19, 2011, 08:49:01 PM
Playoffs next Friday at Hobart.

Skidmore vs RPI at 6 PM

Hamilton  vs Hobart   8 PM

Championship Saturday afternoon at 3 PM


RPI was picked to win the LL tourney by D3Hoops' "bracketology"

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/21/the-bracketology-scene/

Do you guys think Hobart won't win it on their home court?

They really didn't pick RPI to win the tournament. Because they had to make assumptions as to who would be the Pool A winners before they could put forth their picks of who would get Pool C bids they simply gave the Pool A bids to the conference team that had the highest RPI. It turned out that RPI had the highest RPI in the LL. :D

Personally I think that Hobart wins the LL tournament and gets the automatic bid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2011, 05:55:03 PM
Quote from: TGP on February 22, 2011, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 19, 2011, 08:49:01 PM
Playoffs next Friday at Hobart.

Skidmore vs RPI at 6 PM

Hamilton  vs Hobart   8 PM

Championship Saturday afternoon at 3 PM


RPI was picked to win the LL tourney by D3Hoops' "bracketology"

http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/21/the-bracketology-scene/

Do you guys think Hobart won't win it on their home court?

Not our bracketology. Just one we linked to. James -- you gotta read more closely, or at least notice that when you follow the link the web site completely changes!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 22, 2011, 06:12:39 PM
I get that it's not "yours" but it was posted on your site - hence the inference - I did a double after I posted and realized Synder is "separate and distinct" from D3hoops.com.

Regardless of the fact I skimmed over the link b/c I am at work and was only quickly looking at it, I was merely posting the same trying to start some discussion on here b/c I rarely follow basketball, DIII or otherwise and was curious to get a reaction from guys in here who actually know a decent amount about it.

That said I really don't think that this "oversight" is that big a deal, but will note that for future reference, since you obviously take exception to the same.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 23, 2011, 01:59:56 AM
TPG - to answer your question- I have not seen RPI play this year but I do believe Hobart is the best team in the league.  My honest opinion is that Skidmore may give RPI all they handle in the semi-final.  Hobart will, I think, take Hamilton in a fairly tight game at home.  If I were to bet I would consult Magic though and he, I believe, is on record record with liking Hobart to "go to the dance" with the automatic bid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 23, 2011, 03:53:50 PM
Final Regional Rankings are out before Selection Sunday: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 24, 2011, 06:55:50 AM
I should also say that I believe the Liberty League is a one bid league so the tournament winner is probably going to be the only representative doing a "tango." Especially since Ramapo got beat and will likely gooble up one of the Pool C bids.  The more upsets the dimmer it gets for a 2nd dancer for the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2011, 06:19:41 PM
Big night for Hoops fans in New York State. Lets see if I can pick some winners.

SUNYAC Conference

Plattsburgh  vs Buffalo State at Oswego
As mentioned before these 2 teams are about as even as can be.  Last 4 games have been decided by a total of 10 points with 2 of them going to overtime. Flip a coin to pick the winner. I did and it came up Cards, 78-75.

Brockport  @ Oswego
Brockport has a history of handling the Lakers in the semifinals winning 3 of 4 games against them when they've advanced to this point. 2 years ago an 8th seeded Brockport, on their way to the SUNYAC title, beat the higher seeded Lakers in the semis. I think tonight they do it again as they avenge 2 regular season losses. Golden Eagles soar, 72-68

Liberty League

Skidmore vs RPI at Hobart
These 2 teams also played 2 nail biters during the regular season. Red Hawks won at home by 2, Thoroughbreds won in Saratoga by 4. I've always loved  going to the races at Saratoga so I'm picking the Thoroughbreds to take this one 79-75.

Hamilton @ Hobart
Last hurrah in the Liberty League for the Continentals. They'd love nothing more than to leave the league with the Tournamnet Championship. Hobart won't let them do that. Statesmen will have to win a 3rd straight game over Hamilton and the previous 2 were both close contests. Hobart won each game by 3 points. I think they win this one 74-66
     
Heck I might as well try and pick the Empire 8 as well.

Hartwick @ Stevens
Hawks won a close won at home over the Ducks but didn't play well in New Jersey. I think they play better tonight but Stevens will come away with the win.  73-67.

St. John Fisher @ Ithaca
Bombers trying to win their 1st E8 tournament have handled the Cardinals twice this year. I think this is the year they win that elusive crown. Ithaca takes this one 89-80.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on February 25, 2011, 06:48:41 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 25, 2011, 06:19:41 PM
Big night for Hoops fans in New York State. Lets see if I can pick some winners.

SUNYAC Conference

Plattsburgh  vs Buffalo State at Oswego
As mentioned before these 2 teams are about as even as can be.  Last 4 games have been decided by a total of 10 points with 2 of them going to overtime. Flip a coin to pick the winner. I did and it came up Cards, 78-75.

Brockport  @ Oswego
Brockport has a history of handling the Lakers in the semifinals winning 3 of 4 games against them when they've advanced to this point. 2 years ago an 8th seeded Brockport, on their way to the SUNYAC title, beat the higher seeded Lakers in the semis. I think tonight they do it again as they avenge 2 regular season losses. Golden Eagles soar, 72-68

Liberty League

Skidmore vs RPI at Hobart
These 2 teams also played 2 nail biters during the regular season. Red Hawks won at home by 2, Thoroughbreds won in Saratoga by 4. I've always loved  going to the races at Saratoga so I'm picking the Thoroughbreds to take this one 79-75.

Hamilton @ Hobart
Last hurrah in the Liberty League for the Continentals. They'd love nothing more than to leave the league with the Tournamnet Championship. Hobart won't let them do that. Statesmen will have to win a 3rd straight game over Hamilton and the previous 2 were both close contests. Hobart won each game by 3 points. I think they win this one 74-66
     
Heck I might as well try and pick the Empire 8 as well.

Hartwick @ Stevens
Hawks won a close won at home over the Ducks but didn't play well in New Jersey. I think they play better tonight but Stevens will come away with the win.  73-67.

St. John Fisher @ Ithaca
Bombers trying to win their 1st E8 tournament have handled the Cardinals twice this year. I think this is the year they win that elusive crown. Ithaca takes this one 89-80.


Don't know why I haven't asked this before, but why and when did RPI drop Engineers and become Red Hawks?  Was there a Native American tribe (?) named Engineers I didn't know about when I was growing up?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2011, 07:52:19 PM
Skidmore with a mild upset defeats the RPI Red Hawks 76-69. Terron Victoria leads the way for the Thoroughbreds with 17 points. Kyle Clark and Melvis Langyintuo both had 11 points and 9 rebounds while Gerald O'Shea also had double figures with 12 points. RPI was led by Travis Jones with 13 points, Andrew Darst with 11, and Matthew Pooley with 10.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 25, 2011, 08:34:32 PM
Conts up 19-18 with 9:00 to play in the 1st.  Go Bart!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 25, 2011, 08:50:11 PM
Hamilton up 31-26 at the half mostly thanks to Sullivan for the Conts with 18 pts.  Hobart only shooting 28.6% from the field (8-28). 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2011, 09:30:34 PM
Hobart falls behind by double digits 43-33 but has now come back to cut it 2 at 48-46.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 25, 2011, 09:39:31 PM
Hobart trails 54-52 with 2:15 to go....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 25, 2011, 09:51:09 PM
Although Pebole drains a 3 with 35 secs to go to make it 58-57, Hamilton hangs on to win 61-60 on thanks to free throws setting up a 3 vs. 4 seed in the LL tourney final tmw.

Amazing Hobart even stayed in this one being held to 30% (19-62) shooting by the Conts.

What are the chances Hobart gets passed over for a Pool C at 19-7 having lost 3 of their last 4 (not to mention losing to a team on their home court in the league tourney that they swept in the regular season)???

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2011, 10:02:15 PM
Sorry TGP,
I really though Hobart would take care of business today. The chances of Hobart getting a Pool C are really going to depend on how many league favorites get upset and take a number of at large bids away from the teams that need them. Right at this moment Brockport is leading Oswego with 39 seconds left to play, 71-68. If the Lakers get upset, there goes the 1st Pool C bid in the East region to them. Stevens just got upset and they were ranked just ahead of Hobart in the latest regional rankings. Losing in the semifinals instead of the finals is not good. Hobart may have just cost themselves a shot at the NCAA's. Oswego still behind but now it's by 4 with only 10 seconds to go.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2011, 10:10:27 PM
Oswego loses 74-70 and will take the 1st Pool C bid. It may be the only Pool C bid the East gets. Stevens and Hobart are definitely on the bubble and if Ithaca loses to St. John Fisher tonight, if there is a 2nd team in the east to get a Pool C bid, it would be them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2011, 10:34:16 PM
TGP,
Just found out that Ithaca lost as well tonight. There are the 2 Pool C bids that the East will get. Oswego and Ithaca. and Ithaca may be on the bubble. Too bad for the Statesmen because I think they were truly the best team that The Liberty League could send to the dance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 26, 2011, 01:27:19 AM
Liberty League is a one bid League. Unfortunately Hobart will not go.  At this point I am rooting for Skidmore only because years ago I said that they had the best recruiting class and now it is showing.  Probably though Hamilton will ride the wave and win.  If they do win they might as well savor it because it will be their last for quite some time (in my opinion) as they move up to a much tougher and demanding league. In the meantime the Liberty League gets a new "doormat" in Bard. Heck Vassar will definitely be picked next year ahead of Bard and that is scary coming off the season that Vassar has had. :D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 26, 2011, 06:01:12 PM
Skidmore beats Hamilton to go dancing 68-52.  Great effort by first year coach Joe Burke.  Knowing the devious ways the tournament committee works, wouldn't be a bit surprised to see them draw Rochester & their former coach Luke Flockerzi in the first round...Payback is a b***ch

Sorry for Hobart...good team, but too many upsets, and they didn't have the resume out of the league to recover from a first round loss.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 26, 2011, 06:56:27 PM
Quote from: with age came? on February 26, 2011, 01:27:19 AM
Liberty League is a one bid League. Unfortunately Hobart will not go.  At this point I am rooting for Skidmore only because years ago I said that they had the best recruiting class and now it is showing.  Probably though Hamilton will ride the wave and win.  If they do win they might as well savor it because it will be their last for quite some time (in my opinion) as they move up to a much tougher and demanding league. In the meantime the Liberty League gets a new "doormat" in Bard. Heck Vassar will definitely be picked next year ahead of Bard and that is scary coming off the season that Vassar has had. :D

Isn't it nice to know you were right. I remember when you were touting that bunch of freshmen. 8-) Plus k for being so astute. Skidmore dancing for the first time ever. Glad Hamilton didn't win. Hated to see them leave the league with a championship. Good luck to them in the NESCAC, they're going to need it. Hope to see the Thoroughbreds do well in the NCAA's. Wouldn't surprise me if they got sent over to Middlebury. Maybe to Oswego if the Lakers get to host. Now that's a game you'd just have to go see. Your new old coach vs the team you picked years ago. :D ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on February 26, 2011, 09:22:01 PM
Quote from: thebear on February 26, 2011, 06:01:12 PM

Sorry for Hobart...good team, but too many upsets, and they didn't have the resume out of the league to recover from a first round loss.



Yeah, rough end to an otherwise excellent season.  Sure to be a lot of disappointed hoopsters in Geneva.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 26, 2011, 09:49:56 PM
Quote from: TGP on February 26, 2011, 09:22:01 PM
Quote from: thebear on February 26, 2011, 06:01:12 PM

Sorry for Hobart...good team, but too many upsets, and they didn't have the resume out of the league to recover from a first round loss.



Yeah, rough end to an otherwise excellent season.  Sure to be a lot of disappointed hoopsters in Geneva.

I feel your disappointment, as my Plattsburgh St. Cardinals aren't dancing either. Thanks for stopping by the LL hoops board from time to time. Plus K Hope to see you next year as well. ;)

Plus K to you as well Bear.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 27, 2011, 03:54:44 PM
I, too, feel bad for Hobart.  They were the best team in the league this year and just faltered down the stretch a little. Glad to see Skidmore win and Hamilton go out with a loss. It wouldn't feel right to me to have a team "bolt" while on top.  If Skidmore does go to Oswego that would be a trip I'd almost have to make as Magic points out!! :D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 28, 2011, 12:05:56 AM
Quote from: with age came? on February 27, 2011, 03:54:44 PM
Glad to see Skidmore win and Hamilton go out with a loss. It wouldn't feel right to me to have a team "bolt" while on top.

I agree. Especially Hamilton and Tobin Anderson. Haven't been a fan of his since he was with Clarkson and his time at Hamilton hasn't changed that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 28, 2011, 06:50:51 PM
Skidmore will have their work cut out for them in the NCAA's as they draw the Amherst Lord Jeffs for their 1st round game. At least they don't have tp play Amherst on the Lord Jeff's home court. WPI, who plays Bridgewater State in the other game of the pod, is the host for all four teams. Taking down Amherst will be a tall order and would rank as a major upset in the D3 tourney. I fear it won't happen, but I'll be rooting for the Thoroughbreds to win by a nose.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 01, 2011, 03:52:57 AM
Skidmore is facing an uphill battle (mentioned over on the SUNYAC board that I thought they might have to face an "Amherst or the like."  Think Amherst is the clear favorite of that pod BUT you have to play the games! ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on March 01, 2011, 11:27:21 AM
Read that Hobart is hosting the Upstate ECACs.... (http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2011/2/28/HBB_0228112419.aspx?path=mbball)

Statesmen (19-7) vs. Sage (13-12) in the first semifinal - 5 PM ET on 3/5.

Medaille (20-7) vs. Brockport (15-13) in the second semifinal at 7 p.m.

The winners will meet in the championship game at 2 p.m. on Sunday, March 6.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on March 01, 2011, 03:28:50 PM
Quote from: TGP on March 01, 2011, 11:27:21 AM
Read that Hobart is hosting the Upstate ECACs.... (http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2011/2/28/HBB_0228112419.aspx?path=mbball)

Statesmen (19-7) vs. Sage (13-12) in the first semifinal - 5 PM ET on 3/5.

Medaille (20-7) vs. Brockport (15-13) in the second semifinal at 7 p.m.

The winners will meet in the championship game at 2 p.m. on Sunday, March 6.

Is this the first year there have only been four teams in the ECACs? I admit to not having paid much attention to them over the past few years. I remember when there were eight teams in it.

Of course, many schools are not taking part in them anymore, as institutions cut funding to athletic programs. I know of at least a few that will only pay for their squad to take part in one postseason tournament (except for the NCAAs) and they consider the conference tournament to be postseason, meaning they won't let them compete in the ECACs after they've played their conference tournament. Personally, I think it's a terrible thing -- to take that approach -- but then again I'm not handling their budgets.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 02, 2011, 12:56:07 AM
Hi Buck- know that the ECAC has an Upstate and a downstate tournament each with 4 teams so that could be what happened. It is a shame about budgets. I know that a couple of years ago Clarkson lost in the the semi's of the league tournament but was told that the ECAC was not an option.  It was NCAA or nothing.  They  had won the league the year before as the 4th seed for the first Clarkson trip to the dance amd had played in the ECAC the year before that when they did not make the league playoffs but sported a "winning record".  So it seems likely that budget concerns could be the problem.  I've heard tell that sometimes there are limits to the number of games a team can play outside of the NCAA's but it is only something that I have heard on this board a few years ago.    AS FOR THE ECAC games:  think Statesmen win vs Sage and Brockport wins in "a thriller" over Medaille and Hobart wins the tournament in a very competitive game on Sunday. GO LIBERTY LEAGUE!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on March 04, 2011, 08:01:09 AM
Quote from: with age came? on March 02, 2011, 12:56:07 AM
Hi Buck- know that the ECAC has an Upstate and a downstate tournament each with 4 teams so that could be what happened.


There were upstate and downstate ECACs before with eight teams in, but it has now been a few years.

By the way, Hobart should absolutely blow by Sage to get to the title game. As for Brockport-Medaille, I don't think it matters; I think the Statesmen will take it home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 04, 2011, 06:34:25 PM
Skidmore getting pounded by Amherst 55-29 with 12:30 left in the game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 04, 2011, 06:57:41 PM
It's a final as Skidmore's season comes to an end as they lose to #9 Amherst 79-39.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 04, 2011, 10:52:08 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 28, 2011, 12:05:56 AM
Quote from: with age came? on February 27, 2011, 03:54:44 PM
Glad to see Skidmore win and Hamilton go out with a loss. It wouldn't feel right to me to have a team "bolt" while on top.

I agree. Especially Hamilton and Tobin Anderson. Haven't been a fan of his since he was with Clarkson and his time at Hamilton hasn't changed that.

A lot of Hamilton hatred on this board the last page or so...they have been affiliated with the NESCAC for a lot longer than the LL/UCAA.  It's as though people are taking it as a personal insult that they're leaving the league.  It was only a matter of time, as playing different leagues in different sports is not an ideal situation.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 04, 2011, 11:13:00 PM
Skidmore takes one on the chin!! :o  Good season though for the LL champs especially considering a few short years ago they were the "doormat" of the league.  I think they only had 1 league win in the 2007-2008 season.  Ran into a buzzsaw tonight though.  Think Ham,ilton may have a little trouble against that type of competition next year. :D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 05, 2011, 12:13:14 AM
Quote from: with age came? on March 04, 2011, 11:13:00 PM
Skidmore takes one on the chin!! :o  Good season though for the LL champs especially considering a few short years ago they were the "doormat" of the league.  I think they only had 1 league win in the 2007-2008 season.  Ran into a buzzsaw tonight though.  Think Ham,ilton may have a little trouble against that type of competition next year. :D

Clearly they're not at the level of Amherst/Williams/Middlebury at the moment, but they have been in the past, and they already play Williams and Midd every year as it is.  It's not as though the rest of that league lit it up this year.  I don't think the prowess of the basketball team was the deciding factor in that move anyway.  I really don't mean any disrespect to any LL school - they're all great colleges - but you know that the Hamilton administration wants to be affiliated with Williams and Amherst and the like for their academic prestige, and I'm sure how the fate of the basketball team was well down on the list of priorities. They'll likely be a middle of the pack team, much like they've been in the LL recently, anyway.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on March 05, 2011, 01:46:54 AM
Quote from: met_fan on March 04, 2011, 10:52:08 PM

A lot of Hamilton hatred on this board the last page or so...they have been affiliated with the NESCAC for a lot longer than the LL/UCAA.  It's as though people are taking it as a personal insult that they're leaving the league.  It was only a matter of time, as playing different leagues in different sports is not an ideal situation.

Personally, I don't really care about them leaving the league, I just don't like the type of program it is. I didn't like it when Murph was there, though I do give him respect for the powerhouse he built there. Not necessarily the way it was done, but the skills that he applied to do so and do so for a good many years.

As for Tobin, I'm just not a fan. Never have been, never will be and I do think that Hamilton would have better served with a different choice. They've had some success, but also some real disappointments. The program is a mere shadow of what it used to be.

As for Hamilton leaving, it's no surprise. They're making a smart move, the NESCAC is way more attractive and close to Hamilton's academic profile. I also think the Liberty League will have a much different look to it in the next few years, and I'm not just talking about the additions of RIT (why are they adding a 14,000-student school. Ithaca would have been a more logical choice, especially since it could slide right into the vacant Hamilton slot) and Bard (?. Well, at least Vassar will have someone to battle it out with for last place). I think there will be some more changes coming in the next couple of years and it will be interesting to see what the league looks like when the dust settles.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on March 05, 2011, 04:20:52 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on March 05, 2011, 01:46:54 AM
Quote from: met_fan on March 04, 2011, 10:52:08 PM

A lot of Hamilton hatred on this board the last page or so...they have been affiliated with the NESCAC for a lot longer than the LL/UCAA.  It's as though people are taking it as a personal insult that they're leaving the league.  It was only a matter of time, as playing different leagues in different sports is not an ideal situation.

Personally, I don't really care about them leaving the league, I just don't like the type of program it is. I didn't like it when Murph was there, though I do give him respect for the powerhouse he built there. Not necessarily the way it was done, but the skills that he applied to do so and do so for a good many years.

As for Tobin, I'm just not a fan. Never have been, never will be and I do think that Hamilton would have better served with a different choice. They've had some success, but also some real disappointments. The program is a mere shadow of what it used to be.

As for Hamilton leaving, it's no surprise. They're making a smart move, the NESCAC is way more attractive and close to Hamilton's academic profile. I also think the Liberty League will have a much different look to it in the next few years, and I'm not just talking about the additions of RIT (why are they adding a 14,000-student school. Ithaca would have been a more logical choice, especially since it could slide right into the vacant Hamilton slot) and Bard (?. Well, at least Vassar will have someone to battle it out with for last place). I think there will be some more changes coming in the next couple of years and it will be interesting to see what the league looks like when the dust settles.

I don't disagree about Tobin and the current state of the program.  The potential is there for the school, like the hockey team turning around pretty quickly with a new coach and the sustained success of the women's lacrosse team with a very good coach.  Don't know if the basketball team can do it with the current coach.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on March 05, 2011, 11:40:44 PM
Hobart beats Sage, will face Medaille in the ECAC final tmw

http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2011/3/5/HBB_0305112706.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: labart96 on March 06, 2011, 09:09:22 PM
Quote from: TGP on March 05, 2011, 11:40:44 PM
Hobart beats Sage, will face Medaille in the ECAC final tmw

http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2011/3/5/HBB_0305112706.aspx

Congrats to the 2011 Upstate ECAC Champ Hobart Statesmen - 62 pts in the second half!

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hwsathletics.com%2Fimages%2F2011%2F3%2F6%2Frp_primary_ECAC_Champs_HBB_IMG_9633.jpg&hash=dec4c4cb4014900f05e3f222cf75f780aedd6989)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 08, 2011, 01:40:41 AM
Congratulations to the Statesmen!!  A spot of redemption and I believe the all time most wins in a season for the program!! 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on May 06, 2011, 07:07:22 AM
Tobin Anderson is leaving Hamilton for an assistant position at Siena:

http://www.uticaod.com/sports/basketball/x1401928910/Andersons-departure-leaves-Hamilton-looking-for-2-coaches

Any theories on who might be in the running to replace him?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: haterinthehouse on May 06, 2011, 08:45:08 AM
izzy metz from hobart
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on June 27, 2011, 12:02:13 PM
Looks like Hamilton has some finalists for their opening, based on this report from HoopDirt.

Here's what they had to say:

"The search at Hamilton College (NY) is in full swing. It sounds like at least four guys will interview on campus. The names that I've heard are Adam Stockwell (head coach Oswego State), Jim Driggs (head coach Allegheny College – Hamilton alum), Adam Hutchinson (head coach Washington and Lee), and Bill Geitner (head coach Eastern Connecticut – Hamilton alum and former assistant there). I've also heard Northeastern assistant Jim McCarthy's name come up surrounding this gig – he's a Hamilton alum and works at NU for Bill Coen (another Hamilton alum). Also on NU's staff is legendary Hamilton coach Tom Murphy (600+ wins in 34 years). Seems like McCarthy has the connections if he wants it, but I have not heard that he is in the group that will interview on campus."

Here's a link to the post: http://hoopdirt.com/blog/9587244e/daily-dirt-6-27-11/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on July 02, 2011, 10:29:54 PM
Stockwell also has a strong Murphy connection... His father was the stud player for Murphy when he won something like 60 games in a row at the HS level, which paved the way for Murphy to move to the college ranks.  Stockwell has had success at every stop in his career, and will likely get a strong endorsement from Murphy if it comes to that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on July 25, 2011, 05:20:18 PM
Quote from: thebear on July 02, 2011, 10:29:54 PM
Stockwell also has a strong Murphy connection... His father was the stud player for Murphy when he won something like 60 games in a row at the HS level, which paved the way for Murphy to move to the college ranks.  Stockwell has had success at every stop in his career, and will likely get a strong endorsement from Murphy if it comes to that.


Looks like you had the winds sniffed out pretty solidly on this one, Stockwell was named head coach last week.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on July 26, 2011, 07:00:24 AM
Made sense to me all along, but seems he wasn't their first choice, and given the length of time it took, wonder if Oswego countered.  He really left someone a stud lineup with the Lakers, Burridge is a player, and there's two other 6-8 all staters on the roster.

Be interesting to see how he does in the cauldron of the NESCAC, where he def is with the big boys, Amherst, Williams, Middlebury all top 5 contenders.

Wish him well, a class act, and very disciplined.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on July 27, 2011, 09:45:45 AM
Some interesting, or amusing?, or 'pulling our leg'?, writings in the LL football room regarding RPI... considering division 1  !!!!????

If that were to happen, Patriot League here we come!!!   That would really be something...    well, one can dream!!!

Hey, back in the 60's 70's, RPI played Colgate, Army, Cornell.... even beat Cornell once... and were very competitive with Colgate......
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on July 30, 2011, 12:26:30 PM
Just can't see RPI as a D1 school.  They haven't really dominated any sports at the D3 level within their leagues and I would hate to see them overmatched.  With that said, the upgrade in facilities is enticing to the D1 schools and Albany would have a nice three way rivalry with UA, Siena and RPI.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 30, 2011, 01:18:26 PM
Did Albany or Binghamton dominate at the D-III level before moving up? I don't recall that being the case.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on July 30, 2011, 04:15:38 PM
Albany under Doc Sauers was pretty good when I played and coached - beating them in a consolation game in the first NCAA D3 tourney was one of my biggest basketball thrills....  Binghamton, which was referred to as Harper when I played, was not very good... not sure if they ever made the tourney

Moreover, Dominance in Div 3 is not a requirement to move to D1, but rather the commitment to facilities, the ability to attract a higher level of student athlete, the commitment to spend some $ on the teams (not necessarily scholarship $)....   RPI COULD do it at a Patriot League Level, attracting Student Athletes with its Engineering/Science reputation
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on July 30, 2011, 09:21:16 PM
Doc could never win the big one.  Even when he got to the D-III dance and had talent, he couldn't get it done.  That said, Albany was a tough place to place.  The football team, after drinking all afternoon, usually showed up two hours early behind the visiting bench, and I remember one memorable game where Welsh had his players carry their chairs out to the foul line during timeouts.  Visiting teams rarely won at Albany, and you never saw so many flop charges called in your life against the visitors stars.  Turns out a couple of the refs were Sauers golfing partners during the off season.

Binghamton was generally terrible, although they had an upsurge right before they moved up, when the great Dick Baldwin (JUCO legend at Broome Tech, - over 800 career wins) took over the program.

Some of this may be coming from the NCAA.  There are pretty tight shackles on the D-I hockey programs that are D-III in other sports (RPI, Union, SLU, Clarkson), which are becoming increasingly hard to manage.  There are enough marginal D-I programs with football, that RPI should be OK (e.g. MAAC ).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on August 03, 2011, 10:04:33 AM
Good luck to them then.  I still question having three small D1 schools in such a small area.  But, with that said it does not mean all that much to be a D1 school.  Many D3's compete when they cross over against the higher level schools and if you are not a fully funded (scholarships) athletic department then the difference is and can be very small.  NYC has a bunch of small D1's, but, it is the city and those schools are primarily basketball schools with little success in other sports.  The basketball is marginal as well with now only St. John's starting to revive itself some.  The point being (apologize for the ramble), the move to me makes little sense unless the actual talent level increases at the RIP and they get some players for their sports well above what they already have.  Albany can only be split up so many ways with the high school kids coming into college. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: met_fan on August 08, 2011, 01:11:10 PM
Quote from: airball55 on August 03, 2011, 10:04:33 AM
Albany can only be split up so many ways with the high school kids coming into college. 
But how many kids on Albany's and Siena roster are actually local kids?  I would guess most ther is a smattering of local kids, but the impact players are recruited from out of the area.  Don't see why RPI couldn't do that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 08, 2011, 02:04:17 PM
Quote from: met_fan on August 08, 2011, 01:11:10 PM
Quote from: airball55 on August 03, 2011, 10:04:33 AM
Albany can only be split up so many ways with the high school kids coming into college. 
But how many kids on Albany's and Siena roster are actually local kids?  I would guess most ther is a smattering of local kids, but the impact players are recruited from out of the area.  Don't see why RPI couldn't do that.

+1 -- exactly.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on August 09, 2011, 05:44:00 PM
We will see.  Good luck to them if they do...they will need it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on August 23, 2011, 08:46:12 AM
Has Metz left Hobart?  I just heard Mike Neer from U Of R is their new head coach.  Odd....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on August 26, 2011, 02:49:40 PM
Just got a note that Joe Gibbons, who had an outstanding Frosh season at RPI last year, has transferred to Hobart.  Good timing for Coach Neer...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on August 27, 2011, 11:43:00 PM
Metz is off to BC to be the director of basketball operations.  I just love this position.. waiting for Field Hockey to add this as well.  I guess those D1 programs with seventeen people on staff can't handle everything!!  Anyway, also have heard that Jason Leone is heading to Oswego, not a LL move but a guy with former roots in the LL.  D3 is getting a lot like D1 with all of this coaching movement.  Kind of a joke, but, good luck to all of them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SKYLINEBOY on October 18, 2011, 05:18:05 PM
How does everybody think Bard will do in this league this year? They honestly were not as bad as their record was last year, played very competitively with some of the top teams in the skyline. Also, how do you think this league compares to the skyline?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on October 19, 2011, 01:44:51 AM
Quote from: SKYLINEBOY on October 18, 2011, 05:18:05 PM
How does everybody think Bard will do in this league this year? They honestly were not as bad as their record was last year, played very competitively with some of the top teams in the skyline. Also, how do you think this league compares to the skyline?

I'll be surprised if Bard manages to win a game this year in the LL. I think they will be hard pressed to improve upon last year's 2-23 record. Several of the top teams in the Skyline conference could compete in the LL but overall the teams in the LL are stronger from top to bottom. Bard's coach is high on their recruiting class this year but he will need an immediate impact from those recruits to break into the league win column. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on October 19, 2011, 07:50:49 PM
 Any predictions out there?  Looking forward to another great season.  I'm picking the Statesmen again!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on October 20, 2011, 08:00:58 AM
Quote from: OldDanny on October 19, 2011, 07:50:49 PM
Any predictions out there?  Looking forward to another great season.  I'm picking the Statesmen again!

It will be interesting to see if  the Hobart players have to adapt to Coach Neer's style, or if he adapts to what is there.  Which by all accounts is a pretty talented group. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on October 20, 2011, 08:54:29 PM
No doubt.  Coach Metz left a lot of pieces to work with, and I'm sure Coach Neer will know how to put together a winner.  They hound the ball well, and if the younger bigs can replace Salzman on the baseline, they will be a pretty solid defensive team.  Not to mention that they have two of the best scorers in the conference.  They'll be exciting to watch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SKYLINEBOY on October 25, 2011, 03:00:45 PM
I'm not completely disagreeing with you that it will be tough for Bard to win a conference game but would I be surprised that they win one? Absolutely not. If you look at the Massey ratings for St. Joes LI (258) and Mt. St. Mary (232) you see that they are better or right around several liberty league teams. Last year Bard went toe to toe with both St Joes and Mt St. Mary.
Union 226 Vassar 393 RIT 224 Clarkson 277 St. Lawrence 243.
I'm not saying Bard will win a conference game, but to completely count them out seems foolish to me.
I'm looking forward to see how Bard does in this conference this year because as a Skyline Conference fan, I'm really interested to see how our teams compare to Liberty League teams. I wish there were more games between teams from these conferences.


Quote from: magicman on October 19, 2011, 01:44:51 AM

I'll be surprised if Bard manages to win a game this year in the LL. I think they will be hard pressed to improve upon last year's 2-23 record. Several of the top teams in the Skyline conference could compete in the LL but overall the teams in the LL are stronger from top to bottom. Bard's coach is high on their recruiting class this year but he will need an immediate impact from those recruits to break into the league win column.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on October 30, 2011, 08:17:22 AM
Counting anyone out before the season starts seems a little odd, but it's going to be tough for Bard to find a win in conference this year.  The index may have had them close to LL teams, but the reality is that Bard lost badly to the only two Liberty League teams they played.  Bard's only scorers from last season are gone, and although they recruited fairly well, it is tough for Freshmen to score consistently.  The LL is solid, and most of the all-conference players from last year are back.  I do think Bard will be a good addition to the conference, but this year is going to be tough.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballlova on November 06, 2011, 10:16:33 PM
It will certainly be an uphill battle for Bard to compete at a high level consistently seeing that they will be depending on so many of inexperienced players. However, do not count this group out. Their upperclassmen have lost a lot of games over the years and are very hungry to compete with LL teams. In all fairness, though the Skyline gets a bad reputation sometimes for not being a competitive league from top to bottom, Bard will match up better with LL teams this year than the Skyline teams they played last year. Bard's recruiting class brings them a combination of size, strength and speed that they have not had ever probably. In addition, though inexperience will be a factor that plagues their freshmen all year, the fact of the matter is they are all competitors and will not shy away from the competition. To put it more simply, this class of Bard freshmen possess a swagger that their previous recruiting classes have not had. And even though they have size that they have not had in quite sometime, their guards--particularly Francis Arnold (Fr.) and Lamar Powell (So.)--are going to make one hell of a duo in the backcourt, especially on the defensive end. LL guards will not look forward to having to match up against these guys.

There will certainly be bumps in the road but I definitely see Bard winning some LL games this year. In fact, give them a couple of years with this group and they will be competing for a LL championship. Coach Turner is doing an awesome job not only recruiting but also coaching his players. It should be interesting to see the product they put out on the basketball court this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on November 07, 2011, 02:15:48 AM
At least Vassar will have company for the cellar spot.  Misery likes company, isn't that what they say??

And I agree, Vassar is Bard's only chance for a LL win this year, if they can't beat Vassar they ain't beating anyone else.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SKYLINEBOY on November 11, 2011, 10:49:32 AM
Quote from: 7express on November 07, 2011, 02:15:48 AM
At least Vassar will have company for the cellar spot.  Misery likes company, isn't that what they say??

And I agree, Vassar is Bard's only chance for a LL win this year, if they can't beat Vassar they ain't beating anyone else.

Didn't Vassar beat Clarkson last year? If Bard can beat Vassar, they can should be able to play with Clarkson
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballlova on November 14, 2011, 10:34:41 PM
So much Bard hate on these message boards. Coach Turner and his staff have, and continue to, rebuild a once dismal program. It's only a matter of time before Bard is an annual contender in the Liberty League. It probably won't be this year, but I assure you they are not far removed from being LL champs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 25, 2011, 05:23:33 PM
I don't think people hate Bard, lova. They're just pretty realistic about what they've accomplished the past few years and given a move up into a stronger conference, it's hard to have optimism based in fact.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 05, 2011, 06:59:22 AM
This is a copy of a post about Hobart that I placed on the E8 board but thought it was appropriate to show it here as well. Clearly based upon early season results it looks like Hobart will be the team to beat in the Liberty League. No surprise there. Challenges will come from Skidmore, RPI and St. Lawrence, not neccessarily in that order. Union, Clarkson, Vassar, and Bard will round out the bottom 4, probably in that order, although Clarkson and Union will probably fight it out for 5th place.

Hobart has probably been overlooked a bit this season, what with U of R, Buffalo State and Oswego State all being ranked in the D3 Top 25 poll. Even Hartwick has been ranked ahead of them getting 12 votes in the ORV category to a solitary nod for the Statesmen. But Hobart returned a lot of firepower from a 21-7 team that should have went dancing last year. They got upset in the Liberty League tournament and failed to get an at large bid. They did finish their season on a winning note however, as they won the downstate ECAC tournament and coupled with a 6-0 start this year have an 8 game winning streak. They may very well end up being the #1 team in the Regional rankings when it's all said and done. With wins over Ithaca, Fisher, Brockport and now Nazareth to claim the Wendy's title they can't be accused of padding their out of conference schedule with cupcakes. Another big regional contest is coming up this Saturday when they host Rochester at 4 PM.
They are led by 6'6" sr. forward Matt Pebole, a 1st team NABC All Region and Liberty League 1st team All Conference performer last year (15.8 ppg, 5.6 rpg), this year he is putting up 15.8 ppg and 9.2 rpg. He has a chance to finish as Hobart's all time leading scorer.  Close behind Pebole is 5'10" jr guard Stefan Thompson with 15.0  ppg, 4.5 apg,and 3.5 rpg. Completing their triple threat is 6'5" soph forward Rich Bonney with 11.2 ppg and 5.8 rpg. Their starting lineup is rounded out by 6'4" soph guard Joe Gibbons and 6'2" sr guard Greg Stern both averaging around 8 ppg. They feature a solid 10 man rotation and now of course, have long time Rochester coach Mike Neer at the helm. Will be interesting Saturday as Neer goes up against his old club for the first time since his departure from U of R. I think Hobart will win a close one here.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 06, 2011, 07:23:35 AM
Hobart gets some love in the Top 25 poll and moves  into the Others Receiving Votes at #29 with 34 points. If they can get a win over Rochester on Saturday it will probably push the Statesmen into the Top 25 right before they break for the holidays. It will be the first time in several years that a Liberty League team cracked the poll I believe.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on December 07, 2011, 07:42:01 PM
I was surprised that the Statesmen didn't crack the top 25 this week after winning the Wendy's Classic.  They are a win away I'm sure, and with their next three games against Rochester, Drew, and possibly Franklin and Marshall, they could make a statement to move up the rankings in a hurry. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on December 26, 2011, 10:10:08 PM
Been away for awhile and I'm glad to see all my old "teams doing well" - Union, Clarkson, Buff State and Oswego St.  May have to figure out if I can get to Hobart to see a game.  And who knows maybe I can score a ticket to UB vs Buff State.  Don't think it will be close but I always like to see how the d-3 kids stack up!!  What do you think Magicman?  You are my source of knowledge?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 27, 2011, 12:57:00 AM
Quote from: with age came? on December 26, 2011, 10:10:08 PM
Been away for awhile and I'm glad to see all my old "teams doing well" - Union, Clarkson, Buff State and Oswego St.  May have to figure out if I can get to Hobart to see a game.  And who knows maybe I can score a ticket to UB vs Buff State.  Don't think it will be close but I always like to see how the d-3 kids stack up!!  What do you think Magicman?  You are my source of knowledge?

I wondered when you were going to crawl out of the woodwork ;D. I was getting ready to look up your phone number to see if you were still alive. ???  Glad to see you haven't abandoned the boards. You're going to have to spend some time in unfamiliar territory though, as your favorite coach has moved again.

Buffalo State will be in for a long night against the Bulls. This will be the third time in the past 12 years the two teams have met. The last time was December of '09 and UB won 93-65. The time before that was November of '05 and the Bulls won 96-61. I think this one coming up on January 4th will be more of the same and the Bulls will win 94-63. Best showing  of a D3 against a D1 program could be on January 3rd when your (new? old? forgotten?) favorite team of last year, Oswego State takes on Texas-Pan American. I think the Lakers might hang with those guys.   
Look in your Personal Message box as I'm sending one to you shortly.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gordonmann on December 30, 2011, 05:29:47 PM
We had a nice interview with Skidmore coach Joe Burke at the D3hoops Classic. He touched on a lot of things including his ambitions for making the Thoroughbreads into a Top 25 team, his worldwide approach to recruiting and how last year's 7 OT game changed the program.

Check it out here:

http://www.d3hoops.com/classic/2011-12/interviews
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 10, 2012, 10:02:15 PM
Bard on the verge of winning the first Liberty League game they ever play as they lead Vassar 59-57 with 3 seconds left. Vassar with the ball and a timeout.  The Brewers inbound the ball, take a three pointer, miss it, and the Raptors win the game. 8-)  Go Bard.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballlova on January 11, 2012, 12:39:58 AM
In its first and only chance to earn a W in Liberty League play, Bard successfully defeated Vassar 59-57 behind 27 points from Matt Shubert (in his first game this season). Prior to playing an official Liberty League game, Bard endured much criticism from those familiar with the conference, though not so familiar with the strides the men's basketball program at Bard has taken since Coach Turner's takeover. Throughout the entire summer and even this preseason, Bard's basketball program dealt with many doubting their ability to compete in the Liberty League, let alone win. To many, Bard and winning in the Liberty League were as far apart as the Atlantic and Pacific. People used words such as "tough" and "surprised" when Bard and winning were mentioned in the same sentenced. Ironically, one of the Liberty League's most familiar characters (one of Vassar's own) suggested that Bard would not win a game in its first year of Liberty League competition. In retrospect, his comments were inaccurate and asinine. Not only did Bard win its first Liberty League game but it was at the expense of the school he represents. Perhaps he will think more thoroughly the next time he comments on what another school is capable of during competition.

Though surprising to some, Bard showed up in its first Liberty League game and is well on its way to becoming one of the teams competing for conference championships each year. Clearly, the margin was not very significant, however, a win is win. For a program that has been trying to rebuild itself, this is a huge day in the program's history - probably the biggest within the last six or seven years. Why? Bard basketball passed its first test tonight.  Tonight they led for the entire game and managed to pull it out. More importantly, they did so on the road, in Vassar's gym. In their win tonight, Bard proved that they have some character and toughness, qualities that good teams possess. No one played particularly great but they won. In addition, their Freshman PG, Francis Arnold, struggled, which is something Liberty League opponents will not see very often in the upcoming years.

In no way am I stating that Bard will win the Liberty League this year, however, the time has come - Bard is on the rise. It's victories like these that will allow Bard to recruit more talented players and enhance their program. The coaching and instruction are there, now it's just a matter of putting pieces together that will allow them to compete on both a local and national level. Bard is one the rise!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on January 12, 2012, 08:57:01 PM
You called it earlier Lova.  This incoming Bard class has the swagger that earlier recruits didn't have.  It sounds like that showed with a big win on the road in the LL.  Good Work Bard!  I'm anxious to see them later in the season!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 13, 2012, 01:04:04 AM
Vassar, a basketball powerhouse over the previous decade, falls tonight to upstart and national program on the rise Bard Raptors.  Bard, with five preseason Mcdonald's All Americans on their roster, take down the mighty Vassar Brewers who has a national record 89 game home winning streak.  ESPN's Dick Vitale was on hand for the game and had this to say..."Outside of Michigan St. or Kansas I can't think of a tougher road team right now then Bard."

This post is on par with the previous one by D3ballover or whatever the name is.  I would have actually congratulated the Bard Raptors on their victory but all sincerety goes out the window after that post.  You beat Vassar... the mighty Vassar Cadets who last I checked haven't snuck into the top 25 yet.  Give it a rest.  That Vassar win over the Culinary Institute though does bode well for the Raptors... I mean if you can beat the Culinary then...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 13, 2012, 04:40:53 AM
Thanks Magic for the info.  Hectic here - away for awhile.  Amazed Bard got its first win in its first game.  Will be surprised if they get more than 4 league wins this season but I have been known to be wrong before.  Know you Hobart but I think Sk,idmore will be just as good and upperclassman talnet will reign.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3fan33 on January 15, 2012, 02:55:24 PM
Had an opportunity to watch Bard play...certainly a different attitude than one that I competed against in the early 2000's a more consistent level of player than they were able to attract. I commend Coach Turner in his approach to the way his team played the game, however they still have a long way to go with regard to putting the kind of players on the floor that will be able to compete night in and night out in the Liberty League. They hung in there for quite a while against Skidmore and had an even more challenging effort with Union getting the difference to 27 at one point early in the second half.

I will be interested to see over the next few seasons whether they will be able to attract the kind of players that can put them into the top half of the league on a regular basis, while Bard is a strong liberal arts college academically that does not always translate to athletic success because campus life, student life etc...play a huge role in recruiting student athletes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 17, 2012, 12:10:38 PM
Big game tonight for the Knights against Skidmore.  Skidmore shows it can be beaten by RPI.  What happenned there?   Still thing Skidmore is the team to beat- just edging out Hobart.  Clarkson to their credit could sneak into the playoffs and a 0 & 0 record if they keep playing well.  I'll rely on Magiman for the predictions on games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 17, 2012, 07:06:36 PM
Quote from: with age came? on January 17, 2012, 12:10:38 PM
Big game tonight for the Knights against Skidmore.  Skidmore shows it can be beaten by RPI.  What happenned there?   Still thing Skidmore is the team to beat- just edging out Hobart.  Clarkson to their credit could sneak into the playoffs and a 0 & 0 record if they keep playing well.  I'll rely on Magiman for the predictions on games.

Clarkson will have all kinds of problems getting into the playoffs with that 0-0 record. ;D And Magiman hasn't been around for about 2012 years. :D  You need a better proofreader or more accurate fingers, with age. I'm picking Hobart to win the regular season title and get the top seed in the playoffs. Whether they win the playoffs and get the automatic bid is another question, but I think they will be hungrier than the Thoroughbreds this time around after missing the big dance last year.

Regarding tonight's contest I think the Knights will come up a little short and Skidmore will win 74-68.

I'm still waiting for a reply from that personal message I sent you back on December 27th. Don't you read your mail anymore? Or maybe the new format of D3hoops has you stymied? ??? Maybe you didn't get the message?  Please reply.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 20, 2012, 03:57:48 AM
Magic got the message but did not know how to reply on d3 so I used the email address I had with the pc in it. You are turning out to be quite the hoops broker!! 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 20, 2012, 07:45:14 AM
Quote from: with age came? on January 20, 2012, 03:57:48 AM
Magic got the message but did not know how to reply on d3 so I used the email address I had with the pc in it. You are turning out to be quite the hoops broker!!

I thought that might be the problem. I got your email and will be sending a reply later today. Sorry your Knights didn't win the other night against Skidmore.

Skidmore took it on the chin last night against Williams. Got behind by double digits in the first half and then in the 2nd half they came back quite a ways to get within 4 points with around 13 minutes to go. Williams went on a 16-0 run at that point and the Thoroughbreds were also rans. Final score was 76-59.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 20, 2012, 10:16:56 PM
Clarkson defeats Union 82-80 in overtime.

Hobart crushes Vassar 72-40

St. Lawrence beats RPI 100-82

RIT downs Bard 82-51


Modified to correct typo of Clakson score.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballlova on January 20, 2012, 11:13:17 PM
Quote from: airball55 on January 13, 2012, 01:04:04 AM
Vassar, a basketball powerhouse over the previous decade, falls tonight to upstart and national program on the rise Bard Raptors.  Bard, with five preseason Mcdonald's All Americans on their roster, take down the mighty Vassar Brewers who has a national record 89 game home winning streak.  ESPN's Dick Vitale was on hand for the game and had this to say..."Outside of Michigan St. or Kansas I can't think of a tougher road team right now then Bard."

This post is on par with the previous one by D3ballover or whatever the name is.  I would have actually congratulated the Bard Raptors on their victory but all sincerety goes out the window after that post.  You beat Vassar... the mighty Vassar Cadets who last I checked haven't snuck into the top 25 yet.  Give it a rest.  That Vassar win over the Culinary Institute though does bode well for the Raptors... I mean if you can beat the Culinary then...

Airball55, let's not get crazy here. My post clearly stated, that Bard would not be in contention to win the LL this year. In fact, I think I wrote something along the lines of, "In no way am I stating that Bard will win the Liberty League this year, however, the time has come - Bard is on the rise." Perhaps you should improve your reading comprehension skills before responding to posts so vehemently. I mean, Bard struggled tonight and will continue to this season. Nevertheless, they are building a program there that will be very competitive each year moving forward. Coach Turner has established winning culture, which, if you know anything about the history of the program, is really telling of where they are going.

Yours truly
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 21, 2012, 12:54:46 AM
Oh Magic - you made my day!!   The Knights win in OT!   RPI and SLU teams are just a puzzlement to me.  I do not understand how RPI can beat Skidmore and then lose that badly to SLU.  Or is it how can SLU play so well to crush an RPI team that beat Skidmore?  It is a puzzlement (ala Yul Brenner)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on January 21, 2012, 10:31:21 AM
You must be a Dad.  No problems here.  Re-read your post.  Again, I would have congratulated Bard on their first win in LL play against the perennial bottom feeder if you didn't go off.  No worries though.  Good luck the rest of the way Lova.  Have some fun with this.  IN THEIR FIRST AND ONLY LL CONTEST... AFTER CRITICISM.. etc..   You gloated over a win against Vassar... VASSAR.  How about something along the lines of... Congrats to the Raptors, getting the first ever LL win is something to be proud of.  We know that it will be tough from here on out but you can't take that one away.. something like that.  Be humble man, you beat VASSAR.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 21, 2012, 12:08:33 PM
Quote from: with age came? on January 21, 2012, 12:54:46 AM
Oh Magic - you made my day!!   The Knights win in OT!   RPI and SLU teams are just a puzzlement to me.  I do not understand how RPI can beat Skidmore and then lose that badly to SLU.  Or is it how can SLU play so well to crush an RPI team that beat Skidmore?  It is a puzzlement (ala Yul Brenner)

with age,
Inconsistency is the norm this year in all the NY leagues. Clarkson handles a Potsdam State team that beat Utica College yet the Knights lose to Utica college. St Lawrence beats ranked Oswego State, yet loses to Plattsburgh, Clarkson and a not very good RIT team.
Skidmore hangs with #1 Middlebury yet loses to RPI. And RPI loses to Sage yet turns around and beats Skidmore. I could go on and haven't even brought up all the strtange results in the SUNYAC or E8 conferences. University of Rochester with a #7 D3hoops  preseason ranking is barely out of the basement in the UAA league. They knocked Hamilton and Hobart from the unbeaten ranks in a 4 day span yet couldn't beat Nazareth in two tries. And Naz at home couldn't beat Hobart. Crazy stuff this season.

I've watched a ton of games and one thing I'm seeing is a lot of poor officiating. Way too many close games being decided by a whistle instead of a a buzzer beater or outstanding play. I don't usually complain about the refs because I was a referee myself years ago and I know you can't please all the people, all the time. But some of these guys don't have a clue about a blocking foul or an offensive foul. That's my biggest complaint. That and the inconsistency (there's that word again) with the way some of them call a game. Ticky tack fouls one minute and no call the next when a guy gets hammered. I watched a game last week where, with one tenth of a second left in the game and the score tied, a zebra blows his whistle on a rebound of a missed last second shot. Most officials would let overtime decide the outcome, but this guy must have had a hot date lined up. Naturally the "fouled" player goes to the line, makes the first, misses the second, game over. Last night in a 2 point game with 35 seconds to play and the leading team at the line for a 1 &1, player misses the free throw, team that's trailing grabs the rebound and while the rebounding player is in the air he gets slammed by an opposing player and knocked to the floor, 3 feet from the official. So what does he call? Player's arm hit the out of bounds line, when he was knocked down.Turnover, and now the trailing team has to foul. Lead team makes them both and it's now a 2 possession game with under 30 seconds. Of course they went on to win. Watched your favorite coach's team last week. Down 1 with a minute to go they rebound the opposing team's missed shot. Player drives to the hoop, scores, and is fouled. Wait a minute, ref calls an offensive foul. (clearly was a blocking foul) Now instead of leading by 1 and possibly 2 they are still behind by 1. Leading team comes down works the ball for 10-15 seconds and player drives the lane. Your coach's big man never had to move an inch as the ball handler crashes straight into him. Offensive foul, right? Nope, ref (same ref that called the foul on the other end) calls a blocking foul, player sinks both free throws effectively ending your coach's night. There's always a few missed calls, usually they even out over the course of a game, but you can't even them out when they are made in the closing seconds of a tight contest. Some of these guys should retire as well. I've seen some pretty out of shape, overweight guys chugging up and down the court that can't keep up with the game's pace. I think they're older than I am. ;D

The East Region is wide open this year. The only team that I think will go dancing for sure is Oswego State. Even if they get upset in the SUNYAC tournament I think their record at the end of the regular season will get them a Pool C bid. Everything else is up for grabs.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 21, 2012, 02:45:30 PM
Time to make some predictions on the outcome of the League. Maybe it'll get some discussion on this board as it's been relatively quiet this year. This is how I think the regular season will end up.

1.   Hobart     The Statesmen have been my choice to win the top seed since before the opening bell. Nothing in their body of work has changed my opinion. Upset last year in the first round, it probably cost them a shot at a Pool C bid. I don't think they want to rely on that again. I see them hosting the playoffs and winning the automatic bid.

2.   Skidmore    If any team is going to take the Pool A away from Hobart it will be this team. They won the Pool A bid last year but didn't beat Hobart to get it. Hamilton took care of the Statesmen and then The Thoroughbreds took care of Hamilton to go dancing. Skidmore, with that loss to RPI may have to beat Hobart twice to get the top seed. Once, is possible but don't think they'll sweep the Statesmen. So they will need some help, just not sure it they'll get any.

3.  St. Lawrence    SLU is currently a half game behind Clarkson in the standings. The Saints also have to play Skidmore twice and Hobart once more. Clarkson has already played Hobart and Skidmore so they only have two games left against the top pair. Logically it would seem that the Golden Knights have the edge here. Add in the fact that Clarkson has already beaten SLU and that's even more fuel in their fire. So why am I picking the Saints to come in third place? I may be out in left field on this one, but I believe that SLU and Clarkson will both go 0-4  against the top pair. If their is an upset against the top pair I think SLU getting Skidmore in Canton is the best chance of that happening. Clarkson has already lost to Skidmore in Potsdam. That brings me to the 2nd part of the equation. The teams that I think will finish directly beneath SLU and Clarkson. I believe those teams will be RPI and Union. St. Lawrence has already played RPI twice and won both games. They also have a road win against Union. Clakson has to play both RPI and Union on the road and their overtime win against the Dutchmen last night in Potsdam doesn't bode well when they make the trip to Schenectady. Knights get RPI today and still have to make the trip to Troy on the final day of the regular season. And it's entirely possible that the Red Hawks may need that game to make the playoffs themselves. Any team that's got a win over Skidmore and can put up 111 points against Middlebury (what a track meet that game was) can be dangerous at home. Finally the Saints get to play their last 5 games in the friendly confines of Burkman Gym, while the Knights have to play 3 of their last 5 on the road including their final 2 games. If SLU wins the rematch against Clarkson, and they end up tied with say, 10-6 records, I think SLU might win the tiebreaker.

4.  Clarkson     For all of the above reasons. ;)

5.   RPI            The Red Hawks are still in the hunt for a playoff berth. Currently tied with SLU in 4th place they need to finish with a better record than the Saints to claim that position because of their 2 losses to them. They need to root for Clarkson to lose as they will have a better chance of making the playoffs against them. Especially since they get them in Troy for the season finale. Their win over Skidmore gives them a leg up on Clarkson and Union should they finish in a tie with either of those teams and they split their head to head meetings.

6.   Union       The Dutchmen have been an enigma this year. They opened the season losing to Hartwick, 62-61, the E8 champion from last year who returned just about everyone that mattered. Then they reeled off 7 wins in a row, but 4 of those wins came against bottom feeders with a combined 9-53 record. They ended that streak with a win against a decent Hamilton team, to sit at 7-1 entering league play. The team's full of confidence, opening up with 2 league home games, should get off to a good start in LL play right. Wrong! They open with a loss to SLU, well ok it is St. Lawrence, annual contenders for the crown, but they follow that with a loss to Vassar!! At home no less! Now they go to Hobart and just like that they're 0-3. This is eerily similar to their season last year when they opened up with an 8-1 record ( beating 4 of the same teams they did this year during their winning streak) but then right befor league play started they went on a losing streak that carried over into the LL and they ended up losing 8 in a row before a win over Vassar ended that stretch. At least last year ther was a reason for that drastic decline as they lost several of their best players at the start of the 2nd semester. This year that wasn't the case. Just inconsistent. They could still turn things around and challenge for a playoff spot but I don't see that happening. In fact I might have placed them 1 spot to high in my rankings. We'll see.

7.   RIT     I thought before the season began that this newcomer to the league would be in a better position than where I have them spotted. They opened the season with 2 wins over a couple of cupcakes (combined 3-29 record) but then lost 7 out of 9 and the 2 wins were also losing teams. They were welcomed to the league by road losses to RPI and Skidmore but then had their biggest win of the year as they toppled SLU in Rochester. Back to back home losses to Clarkson and Hobart were followed by a win yesterday against Bard. I think the best they end with is a 6-10 conference record and it may not be that good.

8.   Vassar    The Brewers will need to beat Bard to escape the cellar because I don't think they'll beat anyone else. They already have their yearly allotment of upsets with the win over Union. Don't think they thought they'd get upset by Bard. Neither did I. ;D

9.  Bard     Not really expecting the other 1st year member to do much this year. Eyebrows were raised when the news was released that they were joining the league. Going 2-23 last year and 1-17 in the weaker Skyline Conference left many hoop enthusiasts wondering what the conference powers that be, were smoking. Promises were made, recruiting efforts were stepped up, and lo and behold the Raptors win the first Liberty League game they ever play. Is hollywood listening to this? ??? I'm pretty sure those same powers that be, were still lighting, up when they made out this year's schedule. There's a 12.5 % chance that Vassar will be their first league game, but despite those odds, Vassar it was. I think the big shots were looking to shut up all the naysayers that protested Bard's entry over the fact that the League would have a new whipping boy. And so the Raptors started their LL debut in 1st place. Unfortunately they are now in last.  The school does seem to have made an effort to upgrade the basketball program, and it looks like they got some decent recruits. I'm sure that this was something that Liberty League officials were adamant about. It doesn't do the school or the conference any good to have the perennial cellar dweller. The big battle will take place on February 14th in Stevenson Gymnasium when the Raptors host the Brewers for all the marbles. Well all the marbles as far as they're concerned.                 

 

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 21, 2012, 04:21:16 PM
As always you make me chuckle with your wit Magic.  I'm going to agree for the most part except I'm going to wait until after tonights games to pick my league standings.  Think the game that will matter most to me is the RPI game at Clarkson.  Wasn't surprised by close contest against Union (they usually are).  Clarkson I think is vunerable to a good big which Union has.  Think Clarkson guards can handle RPI guards - Llanos in particular is having an excellent season.  Haven't seen Coleman brothers yet but they were and continue to be a "godsend" to the Knights program.  Also think that SLU will get all it can handle tonight from Union (a team with its back to the wall).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 22, 2012, 03:34:17 AM
In a rare feat Liberty League North Country team sweep the weekend.  I'm ready now for my predictions.  Easy - what Magicman said!! ;D    One difference I think that Clarkson will stay ahead of SLU other than that  I'm the same except that for some reason I think Skidmore will tie Hobart for the League.  I think they are just upperclassman laden and I always liked this Senior class.  Hobart is an excellent team too.  Really see a possibility of 2 teams dancing this year.  NESCAC looks really more balanced and with some upsets there it may lead to a fewer number coming from that very strong league.  Midd & Amherst are shoe-ins but all the rest may beat up on each other and furnish too many losses.  Time will tell.  Same with the YAC Oswego is in but the parity has led to alot of losses.  Think Buff St will right the ship but they can not afford too many more losses or they will be under tremendous pressure to win the tournament.  Only other way anyone else in that YAC goes is to win the tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on January 22, 2012, 11:36:57 PM
Quote from: with age came? on January 22, 2012, 03:34:17 AM
Think Buff St will right the ship but they can not afford too many more losses or they will be under tremendous pressure to win the tournament. 

With Age....  I couldn't agree more !!! At the midway point of YAC my beloved BENGALS are 6-3 in conf (13-3 overall). This time, last year, the BENGALS midpoint YAC record was 5-4 (10-5 overall) before going 8-1 in the 2nd half of YAC play. The need a 2nd half this season, like they had last season. (Getting a healthy Justin Mitchell back, this week, will really help too!)

I cant wait to see magicman's SUNYAC predictions! ???

  I'm keeping my fingers crossed! ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 24, 2012, 09:23:49 PM
Let's face it Bengals - Magicman is well named!!  Think your Bengals will be fine.  They are the second best team in the YAC and I think they will prove as the season progresses.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on January 25, 2012, 11:02:25 PM
Quote from: with age came? on January 24, 2012, 09:23:49 PM
Let's face it Bengals - Magicman is well named!!  Think your Bengals will be fine.  They are the second best team in the YAC and I think they will prove as the season progresses.

With Age Came...your next drink is on me!! ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 26, 2012, 12:35:56 AM
Tell you what Bengalsrule I'll come to a Bengals game this season and take you up on that!  We could have both tortured Magic after the "Flattsburg" game but I like him too much.(Notice I'm posting this on the Liberty League board to at least keep it on the down low).  ;D So I'll pick a good one and make a visit!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 26, 2012, 03:20:56 AM
Quote from: with age came? on January 26, 2012, 12:35:56 AM
Tell you what Bengalsrule I'll come to a Bengals game this season and take you up on that!  We could have both tortured Magic after the "Flattsburg" game but I like him too much.(Notice I'm posting this on the Liberty League board to at least keep it on the down low).  ;D So I'll pick a good one and make a visit!

He (Bengalsrule) took much greater pleasure by calling me to personally rub it in. :P  And you can't hide from me over here.

By the way I just typed up a long post to answer your question about Middlebury. I copied it just in case my internet connection screwed up. Well sure enough when I hit, post, the dreaded message "this page could not be found" popped up and my post disappeared. I hit reply again went to the edit link where I had copied it, thought I was going to paste it into the posting box but the entire reponse that I had written was not there in the copy and paste link. I'm too tired so I'll try again tomorrow. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on January 26, 2012, 01:53:38 PM
Quote from: with age came? on January 26, 2012, 12:35:56 AM
Tell you what Bengalsrule I'll come to a Bengals game this season and take you up on that!  We could have both tortured Magic after the "Flattsburg" game but I like him too much.(Notice I'm posting this on the Liberty League board to at least keep it on the down low).  ;D So I'll pick a good one and make a visit!

See u soon. (but dont tell magicman  8-) )  I like magicman too...except next weekend (specifically Feb. 3rd around 8 p.m.) ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 27, 2012, 03:51:51 AM
I'll be looking for the post magicman.  Plus I want some info on how you get the streaming video.  My son and I are going to watch games and try to break them down as he gets himself back in the "coaching gear".   Plus it will be good for him to know about as many teams as possible as he searchs to pursue his dream of coaching.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 27, 2012, 11:13:54 PM
Some big upsets in league play tonight as the top pair both take a tumble losing on the  road. Here's the results:

Hobart 81 at RPI 87

Skidmore 67 at Union 70

St.Lawrence 61 at Vassar 54

Clarkson 83 at Bard 68



Here are the updated standings:

Conference                       Overall



Hobart         6-1                   13-3

Clarkson      5-2                   12-4

Skidmore    5-2                   11-5

SLU            5-4                    9-8

RPI            5-4                     8-9

Union        4-5                    11-6

Vassar      2-5                     6-10

RIT          2-6                     6-11

Bard        1-6                     3-12
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 28, 2012, 01:16:53 AM
Wow you weren't kidding- Hobart and Skidmore go down.  Hobart vs RPI is especially surprising to me.  Union at home is always tough and their good "big" can give people fits though I haven't seen the box score.  Go  Knights!! You now control your own destiny even this early in the season!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 28, 2012, 06:57:45 PM
Results from today's action:

St Lawrence 70 Bard 57

Clarkson 76 Vassar 73

Union 108 RPI 99

Hobart 68 Skidmore 59 


Here are the updated standings through Saturday 1-28:

Conference                       Overall



Hobart         7-1                   14-3

Clarkson      6-2                   13-4

Skidmore    5-3                   11-6

SLU            6-4                    10-8

RPI            5-5                     8-10

Union        5-5                    12-6

Vassar      2-6                     6-11

RIT          2-6                     6-11

Bard        1-7                     3-13
   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 31, 2012, 01:43:25 AM
Wish Hobart had not gotten beat by RPI.  Liberty League needs a "pulse" with d3's top 25.  Bart's losses prior to RPI were only to #8 Franklin & Marshall and U of R .  League has played #1 Middlebury as tough as anybody too.  Skidmore and RPI - both middle of the packs right now each gave the #1 team in the country all they could handle. Know that SOS isn't the best for Hobart either but handled decent Nazareth squad and everyone else in LL with the exception of RPI pretty well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 31, 2012, 10:50:58 PM
A couple of finals in the league tonight.

St. Lawrence edges Clarkson in Potsdam tonight 56-53.

Hobart defeats visiting RIT 79-70

RPI defeats visiting Bard 93-83
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3bballlova on February 01, 2012, 01:00:10 AM
Though they fell short tonight, another valiant effort by a growing Bard Raptor squad. Even though they have lost their last few games versus Clarkson, St. Lawrence, and RPI (tonight), each game has been very competitive. The score of the Clarkson game does not reflect how well Bard played and competed nor does the St. Lawrence score. Tonight versus RPI, Bard was very competitive up until the last couple of minutes when they committed some costly mistakes and turnovers. Nevertheless, this young Raptor squad is growing. In the immediate, depending on such young talent is never ideal, however, these young players are gaining experience and will gel together over time. I am looking forward to seeing a nucleus built around the group of Freshmen they have now, which includes Francis Arnold (PG), Siondueh Burnette (C), and Jose Canario (C). In addition, I am also looking forward to seeing Berk Atuk (F) from Turkey return from his knee injury next year. Bard's got some talent to work with in the coming years and will only get better. Their program is 1-2 pieces away from being a serious dog fight each night they play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 01, 2012, 03:08:10 AM
Here are the updated standings through Tuesday 1-31:

               Conference           Overall

Hobart         8-1                   15-3

Clarkson      6-3                   13-5

SLU            7-4                   11-8

Skidmore    5-3                   11-6

RPI             6-5                    9-10

Union          5-5                    12-6

Vassar        2-6                     6-11

RIT            2-7                     6-12

Bard          1-8                     3-14
   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 01, 2012, 09:33:44 AM
Tough loss for my Knights as SLU returns the favor and beats them on the Knights home court.  Boy what a potential logjam for the 2-4 spots. I haven't done the math but there could be a lot of clubs in the 9-7 range at the end of the season.  Only Hobart is safe.(For now) ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 03, 2012, 11:37:26 PM
Clarkson protects the house with a victory over the visiting RIT squad.  Better bring the A game tomorrow with the Statesmen coming in.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 03, 2012, 11:41:10 PM
Especially considering the Hobart team was UPSET by Saints.  "The plot thickens!!" :o
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on February 03, 2012, 11:54:55 PM
What's thr format in the LL playoffs again??  Top 4, and all the games are played at the site of the regular season champion, correct??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 04, 2012, 12:44:33 AM
Am familiar with this league and you are correct. Only the top four play.  Ties are decided head to head first and in the case of a split I believe it is victory against the highest seed during the season so Saints and RPI with their victories over Hobart (the team I believe along with Skidmore) will win the league will help then most likely with ties. This league will be a dog fight between six pretty good teams with Hobart and Skidmore probably on top and SLU, Clarkson, RPI and Union pounding on each other for 3 and 4.  Would not be surprised if two teams get invited to the ECAC tournament from the Liberty League this year. This is now a one dance league again with the Hobart loss tonight as far as the NCAA go unless somebody runs the table and loses in the league finals.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on February 05, 2012, 12:16:36 AM
I do agree that the LL is only going to get one team in the dance....unless Hobart wins out until the finals.  That would leave the Statesmen at 22-5, which could get them there.  Their body of work doesn't really scream tournament though.  They beat a solid Nazareth, but lost to Rochester and F and M.  Skidmore and Clarkson on the road are good wins, but is it enough?  That may be the only scenario that gets more than one team in.  I'm not sure if any other team has a legitimate chance of playing on except for Hobart, unless they win the league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 07, 2012, 01:52:09 AM
What a great week for SLU.  Barring a complete collapse they have played themselves into a playoff spot with wins against Clarkson and Hobart as well as RIT.  My knights are in trouble.  I can see Union RPI and Clarkson all at 9-7 and if I am right I believe RPI will win the tie breaker because of their win against Hobart.  It may come down to a must win in the last game of the league season at RPI. Of course a win against Union at Union could change that scenario as well as an upset by Bard or Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 07, 2012, 05:51:36 AM
Quote from: with age came? on February 07, 2012, 01:52:09 AM
What a great week for SLU.  Barring a complete collapse they have played themselves into a playoff spot with wins against Clarkson and Hobart as well as RIT.  My knights are in trouble.  I can see Union RPI and Clarkson all at 9-7 and if I am right I believe RPI will win the tie breaker because of their win against Hobart.  It may come down to a must win in the last game of the league season at RPI. Of course a win against Union at Union could change that scenario as well as an upset by Bard or Vassar.

SLU has pretty much clinched 3rd place. The question is can they catch Skidmore for 2nd place. Their final regular season game will determine that as the Thoroughbreds travel to Canton on Feb.14th and the 2nd seed will be on the line.   

Still haven't heard from you regarding this weekend. Did you get my email?   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 08, 2012, 08:43:34 AM
RPI    7-5       @RIT, @Hobart, @Skidmore, vs Clarkson
Clarkson 7-5    vs Vassar, Vs Bard, @ Union, @RPI
Union  7-6      @RIT, Vs Clarkson,  @Skidmore

Remember Union beat RPI 2x,    RPI beat Hobart

For MY RPI guys to get in, can't tie with Union.... Clarkson won't lose to Vassar or Bard   so it looks to me like RPI's tough path in would be beating RIT and either Hobart or Skidmore, Clarkson eliminating Union, and coming down to RPI-clarkson on last day... RPI beats Clarkson, finishing in a tie with them at 10-6, and wins the tiebreaker with the win over Hobart...  of course, what do they earn, a number 4 slot and another game with Hobart.....   VERY tough path for the 'runnin and gunnin' Engineers
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 10, 2012, 02:04:30 AM
Real dog fight for that last spot.  My heart hopes for Clarkson.  But 3 road games against tough opponents will be a difficult task.  Not coming up North this weekend - but I may try to catch tomorrows game at Buff State to see if the Bengals get their "measure of revenge" against Gen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2012, 02:20:32 AM
Quote from: with age came? on February 10, 2012, 02:04:30 AM
Real dog fight for that last spot.  My heart hopes for Clarkson.  But 3 road games against tough opponents will be a difficult task.  Not coming up North this weekend - but I may try to catch tomorrows game at Buff State to see if the Bengals get their "measure of revenge" against Gen.

You picked a fine time to tell me you're not coming to Potsdam tomorrow. I've got us hotel rooms, dinner reservations and a party to attend after the game and you're not coming? :P
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 11, 2012, 12:57:55 AM
Sorry Magic - but I may be bad luck anyway.  Went to watch the Bengals and they lost to Gen even though it was pretty clear they were the better team.  My son kind of wanted his space up there and I have to work tomorrow.  Already have put in way too many hours this week but sometimes you just have to do wehat you have to do.  I've got to make sure I see the Knights before the season ends!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 11, 2012, 01:05:44 AM
Pretty clear to me that season is going to end earlier rather than later with a loss to Vassar.  The Knights have to most likely win out to have a spot in the playoffs.  Wednesday was such a perfect day in athletics for me - got to go to the Sabres thrashing of the Bruins, Duke wins (steals) a game in the last second and Syracuse beats Georgetown in OT!  Then comes Friday and practically every team I care about falls flat to inferior opponents in my d-3 world. :'(
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 11, 2012, 06:45:03 AM
Quote from: with age came? on February 11, 2012, 01:05:44 AM
Pretty clear to me that season is going to end earlier rather than later with a loss to Vassar.  The Knights have to most likely win out to have a spot in the playoffs.  Wednesday was such a perfect day in athletics for me - got to go to the Sabres thrashing of the Bruins, Duke wins (steals) a game in the last second and Syracuse beats Georgetown in OT!  Then comes Friday and practically every team I care about falls flat to inferior opponents in my d-3 world. :'(

Your heart can still hope for Clarkson as RIT did them a favor and beat RPI Friday night 81-76. RPI, Union and Clarkson all tied for final playoff spot at 7-6. Knights just need to suck it up and beat Union, then RPI, next weekend and their in.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 11, 2012, 09:23:53 PM
Liberty league results today.

Hobart defeats RPI 104-89 and wraps up the regular season title and will host the LL playoffs. They are now 12-2 and with games remaining against Bard and Vassar will most likely end up 14-2 in the conference.

Vassar defeats St Lawrence 58-57 in the upset of the weekend. Saints could have put a strong hold on 2nd place today with a win but now will probably have to defeat Skidmore on Valentine's Day to claim the 2nd spot. Hard to figure how a team can beat #18 Oswego State and League Champs, Hobart, yet manage to lose to Vassar in their own gym.  They are now 10-5.

RIT in another big upset topples Skidmore 73-71 giving the Thoroughbreds their 2nd loss of the weekend. They miss an opportunity to reclaim 2nd place. They are now 8-5 and will have to beat St. Lawrence  and win at least of one their remaining games against RPI and Union to get the 2nd seed.

Clarkson downs Bard 82-70 and for the time being is all alone in 4th place with an 8-6 record. With RPI losing 2 games this weekend and falling to 7-7, that helped out the Golden Knights chances a little. Clarkson ends their season next weekend with games at Union, then at RPI. Both of those two teams have to face Skidmore in Saratoga.

Union has played 1 less game and was idle this weekend. They are currently 7-6. They finish at RIT, home against Clarkson, and at Skidmore.

RPI is now 7-7 and ends with a game at Skidmore on Friday before hosting Clarkson on Saturday.  It's possible that all 3 teams could end up with 8-8 records. I'm not sure of the tiebreak scenario with 3 teams. Union and Clarkson would have split their head to head meetings. RPI and Clarkson would have split their head to head meetings. Union has already beaten RPI twice. If it's head to head between all 3 teams combined that would give Union a 3-1 record, Clarkson a 2-2 record and RPI a 1-3 record. If RPI is eliminated then Clarkson and Union would be determined by who beat the higher ranked team in the standings. If SLU finishes in 2nd place that would give the edge to the Knights. If Skidmore finishes in 2nd then Union would win the tiebreaker. RPI and Union could both win out and Union would claim 4th place. Clarkson could win out and they would claim 4th place. Neither Union nor RPI can win out if Clarkson does. RPI can only win 4th place if they win out and Union beats Clarkson and loses their other two games. I think that's correct but if somebody told me I was wrong I probably wouldn't argue.

Both RIT and Vassar with big weekends.
Hard for any team to make the North Country trip and come away with 2 W's as Vassar did this weekend. Even harder when you're one of the lower ranked teams in the conference. The Brewers improve to 4-9 in the conference.

And RIT struggling all year, ends up with back to back wins over RPI and Skidmore to improve to 4-9 in league play. Brendan Harder with a monster game against Skidmore today with a career high 36 points and he also grabbed 15 rebounds to complete a double double. Yesterday's stat line against RPI was pretty fair as well, with 16 points and 12 rebounds to give him back to back double-doubles. He also added 4 assists, 3 steals and 2 blocks. Sounds like Liberty League  Player of the Week to me.

Bard found the North Country inhospitable but at least stayed competitive in both games this weekend. Down by 19 early in the 2nd half against SLU on Friday, the Raptors came back to close within 7 at 42-35. Another SLU spurt built the lead back up and the Saints coasted home 79-59. On Saturday Bard hung fairly close to Clarkson and the final score of 82-70 was better than a number of other LL teams managed when they visited Alumni Gym this year. Bard's record is 1-12 in the conference.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on February 11, 2012, 10:05:18 PM
Vassar defeats St Lawrence 58-57 in the upset of the weekend. Saints could have put a strong hold on 2nd place today with a win but now will probably have to defeat Skidmore on Valentine's Day to claim the 2nd spot. Hard to figure how a team can beat #18 Oswego State and League Champs, Hobart, yet manage to lose to Vassar in their own gym.  They are now 10-5.
---------------------------------

Same way Western Connecticut can sweep Keene state, yet lose games to Plymouth state & Southern Maine 2 of the worst teams in the LEC.  That's what makes basketball great, anybody can beat anybody on any given day.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 11, 2012, 11:43:13 PM
Hadn't noticed that RIT has beat RPI.  Clarkson still has a little hope then.  Strange times this weekend.  Vassar going 2-0 up north.  Skidmore losing.  Very balanced league this year.  Hey Magic - do you think Hobart might get a little love in the D-3 poll this week?  Let's face their Coach has a pretty good pedrigree being at U of R for so many years.  I would think that might count for something.  Saw that Mitchell turned his ankle yesterday but he continued to play after tighenning up his sneaker so I thought he would be OK.  Tough to have them (the bengals) lose 2 over the weekend.  I really hope they get it together and go deep in the YAC tournament but without Mitchell that will be tough.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 12, 2012, 05:57:13 AM
Quote from: with age came? on February 11, 2012, 11:43:13 PM
Hadn't noticed that RIT has beat RPI.  Clarkson still has a little hope then.  Strange times this weekend.  Vassar going 2-0 up north.  Skidmore losing.  Very balanced league this year.  Hey Magic - do you think Hobart might get a little love in the D-3 poll this week?  Let's face their Coach has a pretty good pedrigree being at U of R for so many years.  I would think that might count for something.  Saw that Mitchell turned his ankle yesterday but he continued to play after tighenning up his sneaker so I thought he would be OK.  Tough to have them (the bengals) lose 2 over the weekend.  I really hope they get it together and go deep in the YAC tournament but without Mitchell that will be tough.

Hobart might get some love in the poll but it would be as you said, a little love. The Statesmen with their 19-4 record lack a signature win that would resonate with the pollsters. The only ranked teams that they played, that would give them some credibility had they won, were Franklin & Marshall, who beat them 81-71 and Rochester, who was ranked in the Top 25 back in December, when they met Hobart. The Yellowjackets  beat Hobart in that meeting 72-62. In their other 7 non-conference games which were all wins, the only team with a record better than .500 was Nazareth. The loss to a 10-12 RPI team hurts as well. Maybe if they run the table and finish at 23-4 they might work their way near the top of the Others Receiving Votes category. If a lot of teams currently in the bottom 5 spots in the rankings and most of the teams currently getting votes in the ORV category continue to lose then Hobart might crack the Top 25 in two weeks, but I wouldn't count on it.

Buffalo State has shot themselves in the foot. I think they only go dancing now if they win the YAC tournament. Trying to do that without Mitchell will be hard to accomplish. Mitchell's injury is not his ankle. I'm sure Bengalsrule will be on the SUNYAC board with an explanation. Tough to lose a player of his ability and not feel the pain.

Knights need to take care of business. And they have a lot of hope not just a little. Where's your faith? They don't need any help from anyone else now. Too bad they lost to Vassar, they could have really been in the catbird's seat with a W in that game. Glad you got to see a Buff State game. Too bad you're a jinx. ;D   
   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on February 12, 2012, 10:01:31 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 12, 2012, 05:57:13 AM
Quote from: with age came? on February 11, 2012, 11:43:13 PM
Saw that Mitchell turned his ankle yesterday but he continued to play after tighenning up his sneaker so I thought he would be OK.  Tough to have them (the bengals) lose 2 over the weekend.  I really hope they get it together and go deep in the YAC tournament but without Mitchell that will be tough.

Buffalo State has shot themselves in the foot. I think they only go dancing now if they win the YAC tournament. Trying to do that without Mitchell will be hard to accomplish. Mitchell's injury is not his ankle. I'm sure Bengalsrule will be on the SUNYAC board with an explanation. Tough to lose a player of his ability and not feel the pain.


Mitchells situation won't be known until later this week. Let's keep hope Alive!!

P.s Nice to finally meet With Age :).........Wish we could have done better with you in the arena! :'(
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 12, 2012, 11:27:36 PM
One thing I learned when my son was playing.....there is always hope...his team backed into the playoffs after two tough losses on the last weekend of the season but won the the league beating two very tough teams - one on their home court.  Two things that Bengals are not short of is talent and heart.  Many of those young men have been in far worse situations than this and rose to meet the challenge!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2012, 01:06:48 AM
In Tuesday night's action there were 3 games.

Skidmore defeated St. Lawrence in a barnburner that came down to the last few seconds. SLU on the line with a chance to tie the game and send it into overtime but Saints only make 1of 2 and Skidmore escapes with a 76-75 win.

Saints end their regular season with a 10-6 record. Skidmore is 9-5 with 2 games left to play.

Vassar loses to Bard for the 2nd time this year as they fall to the Raptors 56-55. Go figure. Vassar can travel nearly 300 miles and beat SLU and Clarkson on back to back nights. Yet a short hop away to play the last place team results in a season sweep for Bard.

Union keeps their playoff hopes alive with an 82-73 win at RIT. They are now tied with Clarkson for the 4th playoff spot.

Brendan Harder was not only chosen as a Liberty League Performer of the Week for his big effort in last weekend's games, he was named as the ECAC Upstate Player of the Week. Good for Brendan. After seeing him play as a sophomore several years ago I always thought he was the hardest working player the Tigers had. Nice to see him get his due.

Big finish for this weekend. I think it's possible that 3 teams could end up with a 10-6 record. Not saying they will, just that's it's possible. SLU is already 10-6. If Skidmore beats RPI and loses to Union they will be 10-6. If Union beats Clarkson, then Skidmore they will be 10-6. Clarkson could also end up at 10-6 by beating Union and RPI, but then of course Union couldn't be 10-6. That will be a fun tiebreaker to figure out. Hey "with age" get busy on that for me would you? ;D 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 15, 2012, 11:38:22 AM
Magic... on the other hand.... ever hopeful hopefan, still hoping for alma mater RPI, needs Clarkson over Union, Skidmore over Union, RPi over Skidmore, RPI over Clarkson...

RPI 9-7
Clarkson 9-7
Union 8-8

and RPI gets the tie breaker with the win over Hobart... :o :o :o
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2012, 02:58:57 PM
Anything's possible hopefan, but I think the Redhawks are on the outside looking in. That loss to RIT is gonna come back to haunt them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2012, 03:00:46 PM
New set of Regional Rankings have just been released. Not a lot of changes in the East. The only change was Hobart leapfrogging over NYU.    Here's the East rankings:


EAST                      In Region     Overall
1.   Hartwick               21-2          22-2

2.   Oswego State       19-2          19-3

3.   Hobart                 18-4          19-4

4.   New York U.         18-4          18-4

5.   Medaille               20-2          21-2

6.   Nazareth              16-6          16-8

For the complete list of Regional Rankings, here's the link to the NCAA page:
http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3/regional_rankings
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 18, 2012, 05:55:21 AM
Liberty League action Friday night has determined the 4 playoff contenders.

Union defeated Clarkson 76 to 61

Skidmore beats RPI 102-96

Hobart stops Bard 65-48

Vassar edges RIT 72-69


Union's win over Clarkson, coupled with RPI's loss to Skidmore, gives Union at least the 4th seed with RPI and Clarkson eliminated from post-season play. Union can still finish as the 3rd seed if they defeat Skidmore on Saturday afternoon. That would give SLU the 2nd seed, Union the 3rd seed and drop the Thoroughbreds down to the 4th seed. All three would end up with 10-6 records but SLU would win the tiebreaker as they hold a victory over Hobart and the other 2 both went 0-2 against Hobart. Union would then win the head to head tiebreaker over Skidmore having defeated them twice.

If Skidmore beats Union they would claim the 2nd seed with an 11-5 record, SLU would get the 3rd seed with a 10-6 record and Union would be the 4th seed with a 9-7 record. If Clarkson wins against RPI and ties Union's 9-7 record they will still come in 5th place as they lose a tiebreaker based on Union's earlier victory over Skidmore. Clarkson needed SLU to come in 2nd in order to win a tiebreaker against Union.

I'm thinking that Skidmore will hold home court this afternoon and beat the Statesmen by a score of 74-69.

That will make the matchups for the tournament like this.

#4 Union at #1 Hobart

#3 SLU vs #2 Skidmore   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 18, 2012, 07:35:27 PM
Pretty close with my Skidmore-Union prediction of 74-69 as the Thoroughbreds take care of business and beat Union by a score of
75-63.

Hobart defeats Vassar 69-43 but the score has been posted wrong on the D3 scoreboard.

Clarkson downs RPI 100-78

RIT defeated Bard in overtime 76-73

The matchups for the tournament are what I posted earlier today. Both games will take place on Wed. Feb. 22nd and start at 7 PM

#4 Union at #1 Hobart

#3 St. Lawrence at #2 Skidmore

The Championship game will take place at the highest remaining seed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 21, 2012, 01:43:05 AM
Vassar loss on Alumni weekend was the one that allowed the playoffs to get away for the Knights.  Hope that Clarkson might get the opportunity for a ECAC game!?!  When is that announced?  I can trust Magic to know......  Also saw that Hobart got a very faint amount of love this week.  The League I think as a whole was up in talent this year from last (both Skidmore and Hobart did not lose too much and Clarkson SLU and Union were all better too).  Obviously Hamilton's departure does factor in but overall I though the LL acquitted itself quite well.  Highlight was probably SLU's win over Oswego St so far but there is still time to improve on that!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on February 22, 2012, 06:18:20 PM
Here's the list for declared ECAC teams:

http://static.psbin.com/j/3/ws74l5g5ilg3kp/Declared_Teams_M_Basketball.pdf
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 22, 2012, 08:31:53 PM
Hobart defeats Union tonight 73-53 to advance to the Championship game of the Liberty League. Matt Pebole with 21 points and 10 rebounds for Hobart. Also in double figues for the Statemen are Joe Gibbons with 19 and Stefan Thompson with 14. Union's Kevin Donohue with 13 and Joe Mason with 11.


Skidmore leading St. Lawrence 67-57 with 4 minutes to play in the game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 23, 2012, 12:46:10 AM
Skidmore defeats St. Lawrence 76-67 and will take on Hobart for the LL Championship.

That game will be on Saturday at Hobart with the time to be announced on Thursday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2012, 04:41:54 PM
Skidmore with a 30-28 lead over Hobart at halftime of the LL final.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2012, 06:20:33 PM
Hobart is upset by Skidmore 69-66

Teams in a back and forth 1st half until Skidmore gains the lead with 2:42 remaining in the period and holds on for a 30-28 advantage at the break. Teams exchange baskets through the early going in the 2nd half until the Thoroughbreds break loose from a 34-34 score, with a 10-2 run and grab an 8 point lead. They extended the lead to 11 points on 3 occasions, the last at 53-42, with 10 minutes left in the game. The Statesmen would chip away at that lead and finally caught Skidmore at 61 with 1:30 to go. A three pointer by Skidmore's Terron Victoria on the Thoroughbred's next possession however gave them a lead they would not relinquish. Skidmore hit 5 of 6 free throws down the stretch to keep Hobart at bay.

This marked the 2nd straight year that Hobart has been upset in the conference tournament. With Hartwick losing yesterday and NYU winning today the Statesmen may be missing the NCAA tournamnet once again. There is no way the East region will get 3 Pool C bids. The most we will get is two and we may only get  one. Hartwick I believe is a lock to get a Pool C . If we do get a second one it will be between Hobart and NYU. Hobart moved ahead of NYU in last week's regional rankings but after this week's results NYU may go back in front of Hobart and get that 2nd Pool C bid if there's one there to be had. Tough loss for Hobart and their seniors. I hope I'm wrong and the East somehow gets 3 at large bids but I really don't think that's going to happen. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 25, 2012, 11:19:40 PM
Always liked that Freshman year's class at Skidmore (this year's Seniors) and once again they prove their worth.  Feel bad for Hobart that they have lost at home for right "to dance" 2 years in a row.  I agree with you Magic it is unlikely that they get a "at large" bid so to speak.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on February 27, 2012, 12:38:43 PM
Hobart joins Skidmore in the field.  Surprised the East got 3 bids (Hartwick, NYU & Hobart) at the expense of WPI & Keene state (only team besides Amherst to beat Middlebury this year) who got left out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 27, 2012, 03:08:05 PM
Posted this list of NCAA matchups on the N Y State boards:

The East region comes out smelling roses as Hartwick, Hobart and NYU all recieve a Pool C bid to the dance. The following eight teams from the East Region are all dancing:

Oswego State--Ithaca--Skidmore--Medaille--Morrisville State--Hobart--Hartwick--NYU

Oswego State as I thought gets to host a first round pod with their opponent being the Endicott Gulls who won the Commonwealth Coast Conference Championship in the Northeast Region and got a Pool A bid.

Medaille, winners of the AMCC conference will take on Eastern Connecticut who won the Little East Conference from the Northeast Region, in the other  game at the Oswego site. So all four teams in the Oswego pod were Pool A winners

Hartwick in a bit of a surprise also gets to host a first round pod as they will take on Farmingdale State from the Atlantic Region. The Rams were the winners of the Skyline conference championship.

The other game at Hartwick will feature the #3 ranked team in the country the MIT Engineers. MIT was the champion of the NEWMAC conference and they will take on the winners of the Liberty League, the Skidmore Thoroughbreds.

Ithaca who won the Empire 8 championship will travel to Staten Island to take on the Saten Island Dolphins,from the Atlantic region and winners of the CUNYAC championship. The other game in that pod will have two Northeast Region schools squaring off as Rhode Island College takes on Salem State. Rhode Island College from the Little East Conference received a Pool C bid, while Salem State won the MASCAC championship. 

Hobart will travel to Radnor Pa. home of the #6 ranked Cabrini Cavaliers. The Statesmen will face off against Ohio Wesleyan University who received an at large bid from the Great Lakes Region. The Battling Bishops finished in third place in the North Coast Athletic Conference and bring a 20-7 record into the dance. Host Cabrini will play Castleton State who won the North Atlantic Coference Championship, in the Northeast Region.

NYU a Pool C winner will host the Misericordia Cougars in a first round game. The Cougars, winners of the Middle Atlantic Conference-Freedom are making their first trip ever to the NCAA tournament. The winner of this game will travel to Amherst for a 2nd round matchup. The Lord Jeffs were one of the two teams that received a first round bye. (The other team was Virginia Wesleyan)

The Morrisville State Mustangs, winners of the NEAC championship are making their first appearance in the NCAA tournamnet and will travel to the Middlebury Panthers and face the 4th ranked team in the country.

I don't see a lot of wins here for the East Region. Oswego is a double digit favorite in their matchup against Endicott. NYU will be favored by about 8 points against Misericordia and Hartwick is a slight favorite (5 points) against Farmingdale State.  Morrisville State is a 25 point underdog, while Medaille, and Skidmore are both about 10 point underdogs. Ithaca (+7) and Hobart (+3) won't be favored either but upset possibilities are there. 

Real glad that Hobart got an at large bid. Hope the team can win a few games. Good luck to all the East region teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 28, 2012, 09:47:30 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 27, 2012, 12:38:43 PM
Hobart joins Skidmore in the field.  Surprised the East got 3 bids (Hartwick, NYU & Hobart) at the expense of WPI & Keene state (only team besides Amherst to beat Middlebury this year) who got left out.

I think that Mike Neer has accumulated a lot of good will during his long career, and that probably served him well as the last 8 teams were on the board.  Class guy, excellent coach.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 01, 2012, 01:56:49 AM
Agree with you Bear but another team that is probably pretty upset is Wesleyan.  Let's face it that conference is a beast and the third place team did not get a bid.  Only Middlebury and Amherst dancing from that conference. Pretty shocking, but I'm thrilled for Hobart.  Last years snub may also have been considered.  Team (largely intact)did win the ECAC upstate tournament. I'm predicting a first upset over Ohio Wesleyan but I think the dream stops at Cabrini.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2012, 06:00:54 PM
Skidmore takes on MIT tonight at Hartwick.

I think the Thoroughbreds will find the going tough tonight against the Engineers. Posted line has MIT winning by 12 and I hope that Skidmore doesn't lose by any more than that, but lose they will. MIT has too many weapons and I think they come away with 73-59 win. I hope I'm wrong on this one though.

Hobart vs Ohio Wesleyan

Think the Statesmen can win this game but have a feeling that the Battling Bishops will pull out the victory. Pointspread favors Ohio Wesleyan by 1. I'm going with the Bishops in a close one 72- 68. Hope I'm wrong on this one as well. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2012, 07:14:54 PM
MIT downs Skidmore 62-55. Good game for the Throughbreds against the #3 team in the country. Nothing to be ashamed of here. Another good year for the Saratoga guys. Congratulations on a Liberty League Championship and NCAA appearance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 02, 2012, 09:06:04 PM
Hobart comes through for the Liberty League as they defeat Ohio Wesleyan in a close one 64-60. Go Statesmen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 03, 2012, 02:03:14 AM
No rest for the Statesmen as they take on Cabrini!!  Great win and keep it going!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: BBallers on March 06, 2012, 09:13:26 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 02, 2012, 07:14:54 PM
MIT downs Skidmore 62-55. Good game for the Throughbreds against the #3 team in the country. Nothing to be ashamed of here.
Skidmore played very aggressive.  I watched the game and believe they were too aggressive in at least 2 plays.  The first one was when a Skidmore player initiated contact without going for the ball on an open layup by the MIT player, Mitchell Kates.  It was a clear textbook intentional foul.  The refs called a regular foul to the smiling Skidmore player.  I mentioned to the person next to me that someone from MIT will get hurt under these refs.  The 2nd incident came after a clean (i.e., non-contact) steal by the MIT player, Billy Bender.  The alleged attempt at the ball after the steal by the angry Skidmore player missed by ~4 feet with the Skidmore player's hand going the opposite direction of Bender causing his neck to snap back and an orbital fracture with nerve damage.  With the only senior among MIT's starters out, it almost worked as Skidmore cut the lead from ~14 points down to ~3 points, despite missing a lot of open shots.  This was clearly a case of the 3 referees not being able to control a game.  Players from all teams get amped up during these NCAA games and it is the officials duty to get the obvious calls correct and to protect the players above all else.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 07, 2012, 04:20:23 PM
Ralph Temgoua of St. Lawrence has been chosen by D3 fans to play in the Reese's NABC All Star Game in Salem Virginia which takes place just prior to the National Championship. Temgoua, along with Dylan Richter, from Washington University in St. Louis, were the top two vote getters in nationwide fan voting. Richter received 8337 votes and Temgoua got 7913 votes. Temgoua beat out the 3rd place finisher by 385 votes.
Temgoua will join 2 other East Region players that will be selected as the top 2 players in the East Region by an NABC panel. I believe one of those will be Chad Burridge from Oswego State, who was the East Region Player of the Year last year and I think is the favorite to repeat this year. I think the other player will be from these 4 choices. Matt Pebole Hobart, Andy Stein NYU, Simon Smith Stevens, or Felix LLanos Clarkson. I'm guessing it might be Simon Smith
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 12, 2012, 12:35:57 AM
Yes did see that RalphTemgoua got voted to play in the NABC All Star game.  lways glad to see the Lib League represented in any way!!  Glad you think that a couple of other players have a chance (if it hasn't already been annouced).  Certainly it would be crazy if Burridge isn't named after his career!  Of course it would tickle me pink if Felix was named but he is pretty isolated up there in the North Country so he probably is not that well know outside of the Upstate area.  Peole is only a Junior right?  So his time may be next year.  So that leaves me to guess that Magic will be right (as he is very rarely wrong) with the Simon Smith prediction.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 12, 2012, 03:50:31 AM
with age,
Matt Pebole is a senior. He may get selected based on his 4 year career as he finished this year with 1587 points, good for 5th place on Hobart's all time list. Still no word on who has been selected for the All-Star game on Saturday but it should be announced in the next day or so.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 12, 2012, 06:41:47 PM
D3hoops has announced their All Region Teams. Chad Burridge of Oswego State is the East Region Player of the Year. Three Liberty League players make the 2nd team. Matt Pebole and Stefan Thompson from Hobart, plus Gerald O'Shea from Skidmore. Surprised that the Liberty League Player of the Year, Ralph Temgoua was not named. Clarkson's Felix Llanos, who led the Liberty League in scoring also missed out. East Region and Atlantic Region only get 2 teams as the region has to have at least 40 teams to get a 3rd team named. All other regions get at least 3 teams. Hard to choose only 10 players from so many outstanding ones in the region.

A little surprised that Ithaca gets 2 players named with a 14-14 record. Would of thought Oswego State with their 26-3 D3 record would merit 2 players over the Bombers. Laker's Hayden Ward who averaged almost a double double for the season (15.7 ppg, 9.1 rpg) would have been my choice over a 2nd Ithaca player.

I thought the biggest surprise is that 6'4" forward John Coleman from Clarkson didn't get Rookie of the Year. Here are his stats: 13.5 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 82 assists, 35 turnovers, (for a 3.28 assist to turnover ratio), 17 blocks, and 38 steals. He scored 338 points, shot 64.1% from the field, had 182 rebounds, more than half (94) were on the offensive glass, and averaged 32 minutes a game.

Aaron Nevins is a 5'10" guard from Utica College who was named the Rookie of the Year. Here are his stats. 9.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 91 assists, 61 turnovers, (for a 1.50 assist to turnover ratio), zero blocks, 32 steals. He scored 224 points, shot 39.1% from the field, had 68 rebounds, and averaged 27 minutes a game. I would expect Coleman to be better at rebounding and blocking shots, since he is a forward, but he also was better in the areas that the smaller Nevins should have had the advantage. Coleman had almost as many assists, a much better assist to turnover ratio (more than twice as good) and also had more steals. Neither player was great from the free throw line as Coleman was 24x44 (57.1%) and Nevins was 54x94 (57.4%). Just think the numbers clearly favor Coleman who's team was 16-9 over Nevins who's team was 9-16.   

Here's the East Region:

Men's All-East Region Team
Players were nominated for these awards by the Sports Information Directors at the various schools.

Player of the Year: Chad Burridge, Sr., F, Oswego State
Coach of the Year: Mike Neer, Hobart
Rookie of the Year: Aaron Nevins, G, Utica

First team

Pos. Player                    School                Yr.   Hometown

G John DiBartolomeo      Rochester           Jr.   Westport, Conn.

G Jake Simmons            Buffalo State       Jr.   Rochester, N.Y.

F Chad Burridge             Oswego State       Sr.  Hannibal, N.Y.

F Jared Suderley            Hartwick             So.  Newport, N.Y.

C Andy Stein                 New York Univ.    Sr.  Bethlehem, Pa.



Second team

Pos. Player                    School                 Yr.   Hometown

G Sean Rossi                 Ithaca                 Jr.   Lake Hopatcong, N.J.

G Gerard O'Shea           Skidmore            Sr.   West Sand Lake, N.Y.

G Stefan Thompson       Hobart               Jr.    Syracuse, N.Y.

F Simon Smith             Stevens              Sr.    Cranford, N.J.

F Matt Pebole               Hobart               Sr.    Red Bank, N.J.

C Frank Mitchell           Ithaca                So.   Hillsborough, N.J.

There was a tie for the final backcourt spot


If there was a Third team I would have the following players on it

F Hayden Ward           Oswego State       Jr.
F Chris Ryder              Hartwick              Sr.
F Kyheem Green         Brockport State     Sr.
G Ralph Temgoua       St. Lawrence         Sr.
G Felix Llanos             Clarkson               Sr.
G Sheldon Jones         Stevens                Jr.

Mike Neer returns to the Coaching ranks after a short absence and once again is the East Region's Coach of the Year.

Congratulations to all the Players for an outstanding year.

         
Here's the D3hoops link to every one of the All Region Teams:

http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2011-12/index

 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 13, 2012, 06:41:06 PM
The NABC has released their All District Teams today and Chad Burridge of Oswego State was chosen as the East Region Player of the Year. Ralph Temgoua of St. Lawrence and Matt Pebole of Hobart were named to the First Team. Stefan Thompson of Hobart was chosen for the Second Team.

Jason Leone from Oswego State was chosen as the Coach of the Year.

Here's the complete East Region Teams:

EAST
First Team                                                                        Second Team
*Chad Burridge, Oswego                                                    Mickey Davis, Morrisville State
John DiBartolomeo, Rochester                                            Simon Smith, Stevens Institute of Technology
Matt Pebole, Hobart                                                           Andy Stein, NYU
Jake Simmons, Buffalo State                                              Stefan Thompson, Hobart
Jared Suderley, Hartwick                                                   Hayden Ward, Oswego
Ralph Temgoua, St. Lawrence
Coach of the Year: Jason Leone, SUNY Oswego
*Denotes District Player of the Year

Here's a link for all the regional teams:

http://static.psbin.com/m/l/d7h8zkxpcmawe6/2012_NABC_Division_III_All-District_Teams_and_Coaches.pdf
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 17, 2012, 11:47:34 AM
The NABC has released their All American Teams. Liberty League POY, Ralph Temgoua of St. Lawrence, has been named to the 3rd team. SUNYAC POY Chad Burridge, was named to the 1st team and E8 POY Jared Suderley, was named to the 2nd team. Here's the complete list.

2012 NABC COACHES' DIVISION III ALL-AMERICA FIRST TEAM

DaQuan Brooks, Western Connecticut, 5-10, Senior, Guard, Atlanta, Ga.
Chad Burridge, Oswego State, 6-7, Senior, Center, Hannibal, N.Y.
Chris Davis, UW-Whitewater, 6-6, Senior, Forward, Madison, Wis.
David Krombeen, Hope, 6-2, Senior, Guard, Grandville, Mich.
AJ Matthews, Farmingdale State, 7-0, Junior, Forward, Brooklyn, N.Y.
Tim McCrary, Wheaton (Ill.), 6-6. Senior, Forward, Wilmette, Ill.
Georgio Milligan, Franklin and Marshall, 6-2, Senior, Guard, Spring Valley, N.Y.
DJ Woodmore, Virginia Wesleyan, 6-3, Sophomore, Guard, Virginia Beach, Va.

2012 NABC COACHES' DIVISION III ALL-AMERICA SECOND TEAM

Seth Anderson, Gustavus Adolphus, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Minnesota Lake, Minn.
Tim Brady, Ohio Wesleyan, 6-4, Senior, Forward, Dublin, Ohio
Lance Brown, William Paterson, 6-4, Junior, Guard/Forward, Teaneck, N.J.
Travis Clark, Lake Forest, 6-5, Senior, Post, Evanston, Ill.
Cory Lemons, Cabrini, 5-10, Senior, Guard, Wilmington, Del.
Ryan Sharry, Middlebury, 6-8, Senior, Forward, Braintree, Mass.
Jared Suderley, Hartwick, 6-6, Sophomore, Forward, Newport, N.Y.
Conley Taylor, Christopher Newport, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Newport News, Va.

2012 NABC COACHES' DIVISION III ALL-AMERICA THIRD TEAM

Ray Askew, Albertus Magnus, 6-6, Senior, Forward, Hamden, Conn.
Chris Blees, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 6-5, Graduate, Forward, Carmichael, Calif.
Winston Douglas, Medgar Evers, 6-4, Junior, Guard, Hempstead, N.Y.
Greg Ross, Centre, 6-4, Senior, Forward, Cincinnati, Ohio
Corey Shontz, John Carroll, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Andover, Ohio
Ethan Spurlin, Transylvania, 6-4, Junior, Forward, Stanford, Ky.
Ralph Temgoua, St. Lawrence, 6-4, Senior, Guard, Paris, France
Perry Wright, Widener, 6-3, Senior, Forward, Severn, Md.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on March 19, 2012, 12:58:23 AM
Well Lib league gets some love although Temgoua might have deserved a little more from the various places. Did manage to chose the National Champ in my bracket (the only finanl four team I got right and one of only two eilite 8 teams that I had).  But UW Whitewater p[revailed so as awful as my bracket was it still gave me some pleasure that I managed at least a face saving final choice.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 20, 2012, 12:28:22 AM
Temgoua wasn't nominated for our awards, so we couldn't do more.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SKYLINEBOY on June 05, 2012, 03:52:41 PM
Any recruiting news from this league? I heard Skidmore got some new talent and Vassar got some impact players too
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on October 23, 2012, 09:52:36 PM
I don't have much recruiting news to base this on, but it is time to get the predictions started.  The LL lost some stars that have been fun to follow the past few years!  That saying, there is talent back, and it is sure to make the season exciting to follow! Here are my preseason picks!
     1.  Hobart - surprise!  They have to most proven talent back with 4 starters (3 full time starters) and loads of talent!
     2.  Union - If anyone can beat the Statesmen and win the LL, Union has the best chance. 
     3.  Skidmore - They lost a ton of talent and quickness.  Great program will keep them in the hunt all season.
     4.  St. Lawrence - I could see them 6th on my list, but they'll find a way in!
     5.  Vassar - I like them.  They were young last year and finished strong winning 3 of 5 including two close games up north.
     6.  Clarkson - Easily could end up in the playoffs.  My 4, 5, and 6 teams depend on how they come together as a team.
     7.  RIT
     8.  RPI 
     9.  Bard
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on October 24, 2012, 07:03:06 AM
Danny, not that I know anything about the LL when I'm way out here in St. Louis, but I have a VERY hard time thinking that veteran Coach Mike Griffin and the RPI Engineers will see a dip all the way to 8th place in conference.....I have much confidence that this will be at least a .500 team if not better...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on November 04, 2012, 12:26:13 AM
Agreed- Griffin always has RPI in the hunt.   Think Clarkson may surprise a few this year.  Only losing two seniors with good young talent.  The biggest loss will be Llanos and his nearly 20 a game but the other impact senior (Coleman) actually will play as a grad student as he has eligibility.  So they have 4 starters back from a pretty good team. (and I believe the younger Coleman was Rookie of the year). Am much more excited about their prospects after learning that the older Coleman was there for another year. Hobart will be the favorite I think but after them I think its a "dogfight" for 2,3,&4!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Raptors4Life on November 06, 2012, 12:02:02 AM
I'm sorry guys but none of you really know what your talking about. First of all, it's a toss up for the top 2 spots between Union and Hobart, Hobart has great talent at the top but Union is deeper and stacked 1-10. Both teams should make the NCAA tournament if all goes to plan. 

After that Skidmore and Clarkson have the edge right now for the final two playoff spots. Skidmore has alot of young talent that hasn't been aloud to shine and will surprise many people this year. Clarkson has a solid team coming back and some great freshman. 

After that, it is pretty much even between RPI, Vassar, RIT, St. Lawrence and my Raptors. If I had to put them in order it would be like this:

5. RPI - People will figure out their system more this year than last year so they could easily fall.
6. Bard - Great freshman class will be one year older, very strong front line.
7. Vassar - Similar to Bard, had great freshman class last year, although leading scorer Mrlik is not on the roster
8. St. Lawrence - Graduated alot of talent and didn't bring much in
9. RIT - Graduated top 2 scorers, didn't seem to bring in much
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 07, 2012, 02:57:43 AM
Had a chance to see Union play against Plattsburgh State in a scrimmage over the past weekend. Union returns 8 of their top 9 players from last year's 4th place team. I expected a close game but Plattsburgh outplayed the Dutchmen by a fairly comfortable margin. I know Plattsburgh is better than they were last year but was a bit disappointed by the Union effort in the scrimmage. I'm sure Coach Montana wasn't too pleased by what he witnessed either. Definitely a lot of potential for this team but they didn't have a good day shooting the rock and were outrebounded at both ends of the floor. Defensively they were lacking as Plattsburgh had a lot of inside baskets, a number of them coming off offensive rebounds. Cardinals held the Dutchmen to under 40 points combined for the 1st two 20 minutes sessions.

Keven Donohue is Union's go to guy and will certainly be a handful for any team to contain. The big guy is going to get his points and rebounds and should be an All League 1st team selection come the end of the year. Keith Callies also looked good and exhibited a nice shooting touch. These were the only Union players that scored in double figures as no other Dutchman had more than 6 points. Two freshman that could provide some valuable minutes were 6'2" guard Zack Restifo, who buried a couple of nice 3 pointers, and 6'5"  forward Ray Bethel.

If Union is going to challenge for the conference title this year then they will need to improve considerably off the effort I witnessed over the weekend. I think they will improve, the question is how much? I suppose it's possible that Plattsburgh State is just a real good team and simply outclassed the Dutchmen, but last year these two teams played each other on fairly even terms.  Their 1st three games will be interesting as they take on Hartwick, Hamilton and either NYU or Utica College (I'm guessing Utica College will be their 3rd game in the loser's bracket of Hamilton's tournament). I can see them being 1-2 or 0-3 to open up the season, but I hope I'm wrong. I enjoyed my conversation with Coach Montana before the scrimmage and will certainly be rooting for the Dutchmen to have a good year.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Raptors4Life on November 17, 2012, 11:16:55 AM
Really surprised to see some of the starters for Hobart in their loss. Gibbons only played 8 minutes, wonder if he is coming off an injury or something like that. Hobart seems to be relatively shallow this year. St. Lawrence also opens up with a loss to Mt. St. Marys, not a great start for the liberty league. Vassar wins against a weak polytechnic team and Clarkson opens up with a solid win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: airball55 on November 17, 2012, 07:28:02 PM
Bard...6th??  The Raptors knocked off the mighty College of the Pharmacy (thought that was an all girl school) the other night by 5.  I am all for new teams making a jump in the standings, but, to pick a fledgling program like this over St. Lawrence, R.I.T., etc... is a bit aggressive.  I will give you Vassar, they are traditionally a bottom feeder.  Most people on here try to pick with the minds, not their hearts.  I don't really follow this league to closely but lets not get to giddy yet with a 6th place finish which would require at least 5 wins in the league.  With that said, it would be a nice story if the Raptors made a nice run..but let's beat someone other than the Brewers first. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on November 18, 2012, 08:23:24 AM
Hobart came out of the weekend 1 and 1 after they beat Messiah in the consolation game.  The opening loss was to Dickinson  by three after the Statesmen had a double digit lead early in the second half.   Dickinson's big man went off for 34.  Gibbons and Davis are both nursing ankle injuries.  Thompson and Bonney played well, and Hobart actually showed more depth than I thought they could with the two bigger guards hobbled a bit.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 19, 2012, 03:53:34 AM
Clarkson had a nice win against Ithaca as the Golden Knight's Marques Charlton hit a buzzer beater to down the Bombers 65-63 on Saturday. Four starters had double figures led by Sophomore John Coleman's 14 points and 15 rebounds. Coleman opened the season on Friday with another double-double scoring 24 pts with 12 rebounds in an 84-74 win against Berkeley College (NY). Coleman's brother Jerry was an excellent baseball player for Clarkson and played basketball last year, his senior year, because his younger brother was on the team. He chose to do graduate work this year and because he had a year of eligibilty left is also back on the team to enjoy another season with John. Potsdam natives know the brothers well as they both graduated from Potsdam High School. John was the Liberty League and also ECAC Upstate Rookie of the Year last year and looks to be taking right up where he left off last season.

In addition to John Coleman's double-double in the Ithaca game, 3 other starters hit double figures. Charlton's buzzer beater gave him a total of 13, while Jerry Coleman had 12 and freshman guard Felix Abongo had 10. Both Jerry Coleman and Abongo led the team with 4 assists each. Clarkson returned 4 starters from last year's team and the 6'4' Abongo looks to have claimed the other starting spot right out of high school. 

In Fridays game the same 4 players had double figures. Charlton had 18 pts, 7 rebounds and 5 assists. Jerry Coleman scored 15 pts with 4 rebounds 3 assists, 2 blocks and 2 steals. Abongo was 6x8 from the field, including 2x3 from downtown to total 18 pts and had 6 rebounds. He may be stating a case for the League's Rookie of the Year honors this year if he continues his solid play when the conference games start up.

Clarkson is off to a good start and should be in the hunt for the conference crown. After the 1st weekend of play they certainly have probably the best win of any of the LL teams with their win over Empire 8 defending champion Ithaca. The Bombers are picked by many, to once again, be near the top of the standings.  Berkley College, while not known much in D3 circles as they play in the USCAA division played in the consolation game the next day after their loss to Clarkson and defeated Potsdam State 95-85.

The Golden Knights have a roster of 15 players with 10 returning lettermen and 5 freshmen. However their main weakness may turn out to be a short bench as only 8 players have seen playing time so far. They could also be vulnerable to teams that have a lot of height. The tallest Clarkson rotation player is 6"5'. They do show some taller guys on the squad but it doesn't appear that they will see much action. 

It will be interesting to see how well the Knights do this year in the Liberty League. A lot of teams graduated a ton of talent last year so I think it's a wide open race and will depend a lot on how well the recruiting classes turn out and what, if any, transfers show up on the various rosters.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on November 20, 2012, 11:59:13 AM
Quote from: OldDanny on November 18, 2012, 08:23:24 AM
Hobart came out of the weekend 1 and 1 after they beat Messiah in the consolation game.  The opening loss was to Dickinson  by three after the Statesmen had a double digit lead early in the second half.   Dickinson's big man went off for 34.  Gibbons and Davis are both nursing ankle injuries.  Thompson and Bonney played well, and Hobart actually showed more depth than I thought they could with the two bigger guards hobbled a bit.

Which 3 "bigger guards" were hobbled???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 20, 2012, 07:41:29 PM
Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 20, 2012, 11:59:13 AM
Quote from: OldDanny on November 18, 2012, 08:23:24 AM
Hobart came out of the weekend 1 and 1 after they beat Messiah in the consolation game.  The opening loss was to Dickinson  by three after the Statesmen had a double digit lead early in the second half.   Dickinson's big man went off for 34.  Gibbons and Davis are both nursing ankle injuries.  Thompson and Bonney played well, and Hobart actually showed more depth than I thought they could with the two bigger guards hobbled a bit.

Which 3 "bigger guards" were hobbled???

Bengalsrule needs to wear his glasses when he reads these boards. ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on November 20, 2012, 10:52:35 PM
Duly noted magicman....duly noted! :-[ ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 21, 2012, 02:41:30 AM
Liberty League goes 4-3 in Tuesday's action. here's the results:

Hobart loses to visiting Buffalo State 80-74

Union travels to Hartwick and opens their season by downing the Hawks 62-54

Skidmore hosts Southern Vermont and wins 76-43

RIT defeats Keuka 71-57

Clarkson beats host Morrisville State 78-75

Sage beats host RPI 94-89 in a crosstown rivalry. Has Sage ever beaten RPI before last night?

Vassar loses to host St. Joseph's (Brooklyn) 63-56

Liberty League's out of conference record now stands at 12-8 through Nov. 20th.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on November 21, 2012, 09:51:05 AM
Quote from: magicman on November 21, 2012, 02:41:30 AM
Liberty League goes 4-3 in Tuesday's action. here's the results:

Sage beats host RPI 94-89 in a crosstown rivalry. Has Sage ever beaten RPI before last night?


Hate to say it, but Sage beat RPI last year too...... ??? ???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 21, 2012, 11:25:38 AM
Quote from: hopefan on November 21, 2012, 09:51:05 AM
Quote from: magicman on November 21, 2012, 02:41:30 AM
Liberty League goes 4-3 in Tuesday's action. here's the results:

Sage beats host RPI 94-89 in a crosstown rivalry. Has Sage ever beaten RPI before last night?


Hate to say it, but Sage beat RPI last year too...... ??? ???

Yeah, and if I'd done about 30 seconds of research, I'd have discovered that fact. ::) This is the 4th year that Sage has had a men's varsity basketball team. RPI beat Sage the first 2 years and now Sage has evened the score with wins in the past 2 years. I got a chance to see Sage last weekend as they were in the Cardinal Classic here in Plattsburgh. They were better than I thought they would be. They have a pretty good big man and a decent forward, who played his high school ball 15 miles from Plattsburgh. The big guy Ryan Sager (6'8", 240 lbs) scored 25 against my Cardinals in an 80-62 loss. The forward, Matt Farbotko (6'3", 200 lbs.) had 14. The next day they beat Norwich in the consolation game and Sager was in early foul trouble and only played 14 minutes. Had two fouls in the 1st half and went to the bench. Started the 2nd half got two more quick fouls in the first minute and sat on the pines for the rest of the game. I felt he was victimized by the zebras on several of the calls. He moves pretty good and has a nice scoring touch. The Farbotko kid played an outstanding game and ended up with 17 points and made the all tournament team. Against RPI, Farbotko had  28 points and 5 boards. He now has 890 career points and in the near future will become Sage's first 1000 point scorer. Sager had a double-double of 14 points and 15 rebounds. Sage also has a decent guard, Mason Horne, who had 25 pts and 11 rebounds against the Red Hawks. No reason to feel embarassed by the loss as Sage is a competitive team and will surprise a few teams this year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 26, 2012, 03:32:23 PM
Wendy's College Classic pairings:


http://www.wendyscollegeclassic.com/media/documents/2012/11/MensBracket.pdf
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on November 27, 2012, 02:52:48 PM
My prediction is Hobart vs. Rochester in the finals with Rochester winning.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 27, 2012, 03:19:08 PM
Quote from: 7express on November 27, 2012, 02:52:48 PM
My prediction is Hobart vs. Rochester in the finals with Rochester winning.

I'd have to agree
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on November 27, 2012, 04:23:12 PM
Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 26, 2012, 03:32:23 PM
Wendy's College Classic pairings:


http://www.wendyscollegeclassic.com/media/documents/2012/11/MensBracket.pdf

I wish we had something like this in the Buffalo Area. :-[ Maybe Buffalo State, Hilbert, Medaille, Fredonia, Houghton, Alfred State, D'Youville and Damien (?).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 27, 2012, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 27, 2012, 03:19:08 PM
Quote from: 7express on November 27, 2012, 02:52:48 PM
My prediction is Hobart vs. Rochester in the finals with Rochester winning.

I'd have to agree

I wouldn't count out Nazareth making it to the finals. Just this past week Buffalo St beat Hobart at Hobart and then Naz beat Buff St. in Buffalo. I do agree that the title will probably go to Rochester, though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on November 28, 2012, 04:54:33 PM
Quote from: magicman on November 27, 2012, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 27, 2012, 03:19:08 PM
Quote from: 7express on November 27, 2012, 02:52:48 PM
My prediction is Hobart vs. Rochester in the finals with Rochester winning.

I'd have to agree

I wouldn't count out Nazareth making it to the finals. Just this past week Buffalo St beat Hobart at Hobart and then Naz beat Buff St. in Buffalo. I do agree that the title will probably go to Rochester, though.

I'd have to agree with magicman.. If Naz plays like I witnessed them play Saturday then watchout. In fact I'd pickthe winner of a "potential" 2nd round game between Hobart and Naz, to win it all (Wendys tourney that is) ;).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on November 28, 2012, 09:30:06 PM
Quote from: Bengalsrule on November 28, 2012, 04:54:33 PM
Quote from: magicman on November 27, 2012, 05:56:33 PM
Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on November 27, 2012, 03:19:08 PM
Quote from: 7express on November 27, 2012, 02:52:48 PM
My prediction is Hobart vs. Rochester in the finals with Rochester winning.

I'd have to agree

I wouldn't count out Nazareth making it to the finals. Just this past week Buffalo St beat Hobart at Hobart and then Naz beat Buff St. in Buffalo. I do agree that the title will probably go to Rochester, though.

I'd have to agree with magicman.. If Naz plays like I witnessed them play Saturday then watchout. In fact I'd pickthe winner of a "potential" 2nd round game between Hobart and Naz, to win it all (Wendys tourney that is) ;).

Based on Rochester's 34 point win over Naz, I'd have to go with them in any rematch.  UR/Hobart is different given that this years UR senior class is the last one recruited by Mike Neer.  Emotion could play a part
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 28, 2012, 09:42:24 PM
Rochester defeats RIT 66-59

Hobart scores with 2:03 to go to tie Roberts Wesleyan at 64. Neither team can score in the final 2 minutes and they head to OT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 28, 2012, 10:12:50 PM
Hobart manages to get by Roberts Wesleyan in OT 81-80.

Friday's games:

Semi-finals

Hobart vs Nazareth at Rochester    6 PM

St. John Fisher vs Rochester at Rochester  8PM

Consolations

RIT vs Brockport at Geneseo  6PM

Roberts Wesleyan vs Geneseo at Geneseo  8PM


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on November 30, 2012, 08:08:18 PM
Saw Potsdam beat Clarkson this week.  Somewhat surprised...   The league will interesting this year to say the least.  Still think at the end of the day Hobart will be the team to beat with Union, Clarkson, Skidmore, SLU and possibly RPI fighting for playoff spots.  Just can not see Bard, Vassar or RIT quite in the mix but I have no clue about incoming freshman so that is the wildcard.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on December 03, 2012, 11:47:23 AM
As far as RIT, I agree that they might not be in the mix at season's end, however, I watched them play Rochester tough in the opening round of the Wendy's Classic at Hobart.   RIT is athletic and could win a few games that keep them in the hunt.  I'm not sure if they will be consistent enough to make a playoff run, but they are a team that I wouldn't like to play with something on the line.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 07, 2013, 07:40:57 AM
Now that the league season has started, any impressions from the early slate of games?

Also, why is it that St. Lawrence and Vassar haven't played any league games yet? Clarkson has played one league game and Bard has played two, aren't those squads the St. Lawrence and Vassar travel partners?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 07, 2013, 10:59:20 AM
It does seem unusual that Union would have played three games and St. Lawrence and Bard none. With nine teams, some of the schedule has to be unbalanced, but with the Wendy's/Chase/Rochester area tournament no longer taking place in January, hopefully the LL schedule will balance out.

Perhaps St. Lawrence or Vassar has some sort of conflict with their class schedule or they're on a trimester system or there's something academic that prevented them from playing games this weekend. The travel partners meet midweek this week, however:
http://www.d3hoops.com/conf/LL/Men/2012-13/schedule?confonly=1
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 07, 2013, 04:14:37 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 07, 2013, 10:59:20 AM
It does seem unusual that Union would have played three games and St. Lawrence and Bard none. With nine teams, some of the schedule has to be unbalanced, but with the Wendy's/Chase/Rochester area tournament no longer taking place in January, hopefully the LL schedule will balance out.

Perhaps St. Lawrence or Vassar has some sort of conflict with their class schedule or they're on a trimester system or there's something academic that prevented them from playing games this weekend. The travel partners meet midweek this week, however:
http://www.d3hoops.com/conf/LL/Men/2012-13/schedule?confonly=1

St. Lawrence has been too busy playing in the SUNYAC conference.  ;D Unfortuately the Saints are 0-4 in conference play there. :o Their worst showing against the YAC in maybe... forever. The Liberty League overall is 1-10 against the SUNYAC this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 08, 2013, 12:47:50 AM
Magic, is St. Lawrence down this year? 2-7? And they got beat pretty good by Brockport.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 08, 2013, 03:38:13 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on January 08, 2013, 12:47:50 AM
Magic, is St. Lawrence down this year? 2-7? And they got beat pretty good by Brockport.

buck,
I think the entire league is down this year. The Liberty League lost a ton of good players through graduation and the league has struggled in out of conference play. Union and Clarkson have gaudy records but really haven't played a challenging schedule. I think Hobart is probably the team to beat for the conference title. I believe the only team to get to the NCAA tournament this year will be the automatic qualifier.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 12, 2013, 05:16:26 AM
In Liberty League action on Friday night:

Vassar defeats host St Lawrence 48-47 on a last second buzzer beater.

RPI defeats visiting RIT 105-86.

Skidmore defeats host Union 76-66

Clarkson defeats visiting Bard 75-45.


The standings as of 1-11-13

Hobart            3-0    7-4
Union              3-1    11-2
RPI                 2-1    7-5
Skidmore          2-2    8-5
St. Lawrence    1-1    3-8
Vassar             1-1    5-6
Clarkson           1-2    9-3
Bard                1-3    4-7
RIT                 0-3    4-8
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 16, 2013, 12:07:46 AM

In Liberty League action on Saturday January 12th

Bard 60 St. Lawrence 75
 
Hobart 74  Ithaca 80

Vassar 67 Clarkson75   

RPI 72 Union 90

Rochester Tech 60 Skidmore 83


In League action on Tuesday Jan. 15th:


Jan. 15

St. Lawrence 67 Clarkson 65

RPI 86 Vassar 72


Standings Through games of 1-15:

Hobart               3-0
Union                4-1
St. Lawrence      3-1
Skidmore           3-2
RPI                   3-2
Clarkson            2-3
Vassar              1-3
Bard                 1-4
RIT                   0-4   


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on January 18, 2013, 08:36:01 PM
At the Skidmore Vassar game tonight Vassar leads 35-25 at halftime.  Not sure how the Skidmore men are this year because I only came because I know someone on the women's team, but Vassar could be a tough out this season.  4 of the starting 5 tonight for Vassar were underclasmen, and some of them look like pretty good players.  Vassar not doing well against the Skidmore press otherwise they'd be up by more then 9, but playing good defense.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on January 18, 2013, 09:34:33 PM
Skidmore comes back and wins 64-59, but really impressed with Vassar.  Nobody in the LL better overlook them, because if they do that team is in for a long night.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 19, 2013, 07:01:55 PM
Liberty League action on Friday night:

Union 63   Bard 58

Hobart 65   St. Lawrence 57

Rochester Tech 55    Clarkson 65

Skidmore 64    Vassar  59
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 19, 2013, 07:21:33 PM
Liberty League action on Saturday afternoon:

Union 85  Vassar 74

Clarkson 53 Hobart 52      The Golden Knights survive a last second shot by Hobart's Stefan Thompson and hang on to give the Statesmen their first loss in league play.

St. Lawrence 68  RIT 53

Skidmore 65  Bard 48


The League standings through 1-19:

1.   Union              6-1
2.   Hobart            4-1
3.   Skidmore        5-2
4.   St. Lawrence   4-2
5.   RPI                 3-2
6.   Clarkson         4-3
7.   Vassar            1-5
8.   Bard               1-6
9.   RIT                 0-6
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 23, 2013, 08:17:09 AM
The top two teams squared off last night and Hobart proved to be the dominant team as they defeated host Union 82-70 and bump the Dutchmen out of first place. Hobart improves to 5-1 in the league (9-6 overall) while Union falls to 5-2 in league play (14-3 overall).

Four teams are now tied in the loss column with 2 losses, Union, Skidmore, SLU, and RPI, but weekend matchups involving all 4 contenders could find several teams sliding back in the pack. A 2-0 weekend or 0-2 weekend could make or break the season at this juncture.

Hobart should improve their hold on 1st place this weekend when they host 2 of the lower tier teams as Bard, then Vassar makes the trip over to Geneva.

Union will host St. Lawrence Friday and then travel to Skidmore on Saturday for some 2nd place showdowns.

RPI defeated Bard last night 80-56. The Red Hawks are now 4-2 in conference play and 9-6 overall. A big game on tap for RPI this Friday as they travel to Saratoga to take on the 6-2 Skidmore Thoroughbreds at 8 PM. Another important matchup on Saturday afternoon as they host St. Lawrence at 4 PM.

Skidmore improves to 6-2 in LL play (12-5 overall) as they defeat visiting Clarkson 65-58 Tuesday night. The Golden Knights fall to 4-4 (12-5) The Thoroughbreds move into a 2nd place tie with Union, but do hold the tiebreaker over the Dutchmen. Skidmore will host RPI on Friday and Union  on Saturday.

Clarkson is now in danger of missing the playoffs as they fall into sole possession of 6th place and 2 games down in the loss column to the 4 teams directly above them. They have also lost to those four teams so they don't win any tiebreakers either. They are now off until January 29th when they visit North Country rival St. Lawrence. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on January 27, 2013, 08:20:47 PM
Hobart is definetly the best team in this league led by Stefon Thompson and Richie Bonney, also Coach Neer runs a fabulous Offense. If Hobart wins there Conference tournament they could definetly make a run i think. Union i think is the 2nd best team with a great record but a very very unimpressive SOS. They dont have a Signature win and lost to Skidmore and Hobart 2 of the top 3 teams in their conference.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on January 27, 2013, 08:44:21 PM
Quote from: dcahill44 on January 27, 2013, 08:20:47 PM
Hobart is definetly the best team in this league led by Stefon Thompson and Richie Bonney, also Coach Neer runs a fabulous Offense. If Hobart wins there Conference tournament they could definetly make a run i think. Union i think is the 2nd best team with a great record but a very very unimpressive SOS. They dont have a Signature win and lost to Skidmore and Hobart 2 of the top 3 teams in their conference.

I think it's pretty clear Hobart is the top squad in the LL, Richie Bonney has been nasty this season. He's leading the league in scoring and rebounding. Union is hard to figure out, since they lost to Skidmore at home, but then won at Skidmore yesterday to even up their matchup on the season and slide into sole possession of second place.

St. Lawrence is now fourth, behind Skidmore, but they've beaten them once this season and have a second matchup against them coming up. They also play Union coming up, but they've lost to them once this season, so all they can hope to salvage is a split in that series.

The only other teams that I can see as contenders are Clarkson and RPI, but they may not have enough to crack the top 4. The teams that are out of it are RIT (I thought they might compete a little in the LL when they came over from the Empire 8, but they have largely been a non factor), and of course, Bard and Vassar.

I think it will play out that Hobart is first, Union is second, Skidmore is third and St. Lawrence is fourth.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 07, 2013, 01:27:24 AM
3 Big wins by my Knights put them right back in position.  Hobart win may be the biggest one as I believe that in the case of a split and even record the victory against the highest seed will determine ties.  Of course Clarkson turned the tables on SLU for a change with road win to split their series.  Really thought that the Dutchmen deserved a least a "sniff" in the top 25 (ie: a vote or two) when they were at 17-3.  Just no love to East at all with the only rep I see is Cortland State and U of R.  Second loss to Hobart probably dooms the league to a single bid unless Hobart (or a surprise team) just nips Union In the title game with Union running the table to only have 4 losses.  Even then there may not be enough quality in the eyes of some.  Hopefully I get get some answers from the game and the "fountain of all knowledge" the Magicman! :D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 07, 2013, 03:20:37 AM
Quote from: with age came? on February 07, 2013, 01:27:24 AM
3 Big wins by my Knights put them right back in position.  Hobart win may be the biggest one as I believe that in the case of a split and even record the victory against the highest seed will determine ties.  Of course Clarkson turned the tables on SLU for a change with road win to split their series.  Really thought that the Dutchmen deserved a least a "sniff" in the top 25 (ie: a vote or two) when they were at 17-3.  Just no love to East at all with the only rep I see is Cortland State and U of R.  Second loss to Hobart probably dooms the league to a single bid unless Hobart (or a surprise team) just nips Union In the title game with Union running the table to only have 4 losses.  Even then there may not be enough quality in the eyes of some.  Hopefully I get get some answers from the game and the "fountain of all knowledge" the Magicman! :D

Well, well, well, who is this masked man. Just a couple of weeks to go in the season and he finally makes an appearance. I thought maybe you had left the country or something. You obviously haven't been reading the SUNYAC board or you would have heard me complaining about Union's joke of a schedule. They didn't get a sniff of the Top 25 when they were 17-3 because they didn't deserve it. 4 of my buddies and I could beat half the teams that Union's played this year to get that 17-3 record. To give you an idea of how weak their schedule really is, Massey has them ranked with the 296th worst schedule in the country (out of 412 teams) and it's only that high now because they've played Hobart twice recently. Back when they were 16-2 just prior to the first Hobart game they were ranked with the 332nd worst scedule in D3. If they were in the SUNYAC league this year they would come in about 8th or 9th place and I'm not kidding one bit. To further prove my point the first set of Regional Rankings came out today and Union was nowhere to be found. There's at least 3 other teams that weren't ranked today that are ahead of Union in the pecking order. When was the last time a team in the East from the SUNYAC, Liberty League, Empire 8 or UAA with a 16-3 regional record wasn't ranked? The regional committee I'm sure took one look at Union's Strength of schedule and said no thanks.

We've spoken in the past about comments that one or more of the 3 major NYS leagues was having a down year and usually we've been in agreement that many of those comments were coming from posters that didn't have a clue. This year however the LIberty League is having a down year. An awful lot of talent graduated last year from the league and it's showing up all over the place. Your Golden Knights with a decent record are guilty of the same crime as Union. Their strength of schedule is presently #304, worse than Union's and like Union they are nowhere to be found in the regional rankings. Clarkson lost to Potsdam by a dozen points and Potsdam is in 8th place in our conference and won't finish any higher than that. St Lawrence went 0-4 against the YAC this year and also lost to Potsdam. Their 4 losses were against the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 8th place team in the YAC. The Liberty League's overall record against the SUNYAC was 1-10 and the 1 win was by Skidmore over the last place team Oneonta (2-19) by 3 points, 66-63. The league did have some success against the E8 but most of the wins were the top of the LL  beating up on the bottom the E8. Hobart beat Nazareth and Hartwick, middle of the pack E8 teams, but lost to co-leader Ithaca, and in Geneva, to 6th place Buffalo State in the YAC. The League will only get one bid this year and it doesn't matter who wins the tournament. I just don't see Hobart getting an at large bid if they get upset in the tournament. The regional rankings out today has Hobart in 5th place. Barely ahead of 6th place Geneseo. I think Plattsburgh is in 7th, Oswego is in 8th and Ithaca is in 9th. Any or all of those 4 teams could leap over Hobart if they suffer another loss. I think the SUNYAC and the E8 could get 2 teams in but don't think that the LL will be as fortunate. It's possible if Hobart wins out and loses in the finals of the LL tournament they might squeek out a bid as that would give them a record of 20-7. Depending on what the top seeds in the other conferences do may allow them to sneak in, so I won't rule them out completely. I will rule out every other team in the LL though. Union and Clarkson won't get in unless they win the automatic bid. Their SOS just won't allow it and that's a result of their poor scheduling. For years Clarkson has always played Plattsburgh in a non-conference match up. All of a sudden this year they didn't want to play us. So they replaced Plattsburgh, a team with one of the best SOS's in the East region, with a cupcake.  Clarkson could finish 21-6 if they run the table and lose in the LL finals and then they will say hello to the ECAC's. You get what you pay for!! ;D

I thought I posted last night about the Hobart-Union game along with the standings but remembered I had a computer problem with my connection. I saved my writeup but forgot to post it later on. So I'll post it after I finish this one.

Drop me a personal message with your phone number so I can give you a call and touch base. It's been a long time since we've spoken.       
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 07, 2013, 04:01:06 AM
Quite a ballgame Tuesday night in Geneva as Hobart wins a double overtime thriller against Union 85-82 to complete a seaspn sweep of the Dutchmen and put a big hurt on any chance they may have had to get the number 1 seed. Down 2 games in the loss column Union would now need the Statesmen to lose 3 of their remaining 5 games since Hobart also owns the tiebreaker. With 3 of Hobart's remaining games against the 3 bottom teams in the conference I don't see 3 losses in the Statesmen's future. Plus their two toughest games left against Clarkson and SLU are both in Geneva. I think they finish at the worst 4-1 and possibly will run the table to end up with a 15-1 league record (19-6 overall). If someone other than Hobart wins the LIberty League tournament they will have to do it in Bristol gym.

Hobart trailed from the 10 minute mark of the first period and never caught the Dutchmen until they tied the game at 70 on a free throw by Stefan Thompson with 12 seconds left in regulation. Hobart played some good defense on Union's final possession and the Dutchmen never got a shot off which sent the game into overtime. In OT neither team could do much in the first 2:42 until Union finally got a layup by Matt Petrone. The Dutchmen added 2 free throws after a Hobart miss to go up by 4 points, 74-70 with 1:25 left. 10 seconds later Hobart's Connor Rehbaum hit a big 3 pointer and after a Union turnover Thompson hit a pair of free throws with 45 ticks left to give Hobart their first lead since midway through the 1st half at 75-74. It was short lived one however, as Petrone put the Dutchmen back in front with another layup and one, 24 seconds later. With only 21 seconds left to play Hobart once again turned to Thompson for more heroics and he came through with a jumper with 8 seconds left to tie it again. Union's final attempt from the corner hit the side of the backboard and to double overtime they went. Once again Union got on the board first, as big man Kevin Donohue scored on a layup, but Hobart's Rehbaum one upped him with another trifecta to put Hobart up by 1. After both teams misfired Donohue tied the game with 1 of 2 free throws and after another Hobart misfire, Donohue was fouled again and made both to give Union an 82-80 lead with a minute left to play. Who else but Thompson woud put the dagger in the Dutchmen as he buried a three with 34 seconds left. Union came down and worked the ball to Petrone but he missed a layup and fouled Hobart's Rehbaum on the rebound attempt. Rehbaum made them both with 7 seconds left and Union had an off balance 3 point attempt to tie it at the buzzer but came up short.

Stefan Thompson had a career high 30 points and 5 asists to lead Hobart in both categories. Richie Bonney had 16 points but fouled out near the end of regulation, shifting more of the scoring load onto Thompson. Joe Gibbons had 14 points and 6 rebounds. Connor Rehbaum totaled 11 points with 7 rebounds and 8 of those points came after Bonney fouled out. In fact after Bonney fouled out with 1:11 left in regulation the Statesmen scored 18 points from that point until the end of the game, 10 by Thompson and 8 by Rehbaum. Sean Peer only scored 2 points but in his best Dennis Rodman impersonation grabbed 17 rebounds and was personally responsible for Hobart winning the battle off the glass 43-32. Rezin Davis had 8 points and 4 assists with a pair of 3 pointers off the bench.

Union was led by Kevin Donohue with a double-double of 28 points and 12 rebounds. Terell Winney had 13 points, 2 steals and 2 rebounds. Joe Mason added 12 points 5 rebounds and 6 assists.

For a game that was 50 minutes in length there were relatively few turnovers as Union only had 9 and Hobart even less with 8.

It was a night of records for Hobart as well. Coach Mike Neer became only the 14th coach in Division III history to reach 600 career wins with the victory and is currently in 6th place among active coaches in career wins.

Thompson's 30 point night put him over the 1500 career points mark (1527). He became the 7th player in Hobart history to accomplish that feat.

Bonney's 16 points gave him a total of 1001 career points as he became the 25 Statesman to achieve that mark.

I'm sure it was extra special that they could accomplish these records in a hard fought win against their closest pursuer.

In other league action on Tuesday night:

RPI defeated visiting Vassar 85-76 to improve to 6-5 in league play

St. Lawrence traveled to Skidmore and in a mild upset beat the 3rd place Thoroughbreds 67-61. The Saints have now pulled even with Skidmore in the loss column at 7-5 and only trail by a half game as Skidmore stands at 8-5 with a game in hand.

Here are the complete league standings since the ones on the D3hoops team pages aren't updated because some SID's aren't turning in their team's scores. It's gonna be a dogfight for those 2nd, 3rd and 4th seeds over the next 10 days between Union, Skidmore, Clarkson, SLU and RPI. I know Hobart will be the 1 seed, but the rest are still up for grabs.

2012-13 Men's Standings


Hobart                10-1      14-6
Union                  9-3       17-4
Skidmore              8-5       14-8
Clarkson              7-4       15-5
St.  Lawrence       7-5       9-12
RPI                      6-5       11-9
Vassar                 3-9       7-14
Rochester Tech     2-9       6-14
Bard                    1-12     4-16

If I had to guess what the final regular season standings might look like I'd go with this.

1   Hobart      15-1
2   Union        12-4
3   Clarkson    10-6** 
4   Skidmore   10-6
5   SLU          9-7
6   RPI           7-9
7    it
8   doesn't
9   matter

**Clarkson wins their game against Skidmore on Feb. 12th to split the season series. The Knights win the tiebreaker and the 3rd seed by virtue of their victory over top seeded Hobart.

             
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 08, 2013, 06:21:45 PM
Hey Magic!   Very illuminating!   I knew that the my Knights schedule out of the league was pretty weak but I thought the win over Ithaca gave them some credibility.  Without question the YAC is the beast of the east in d3 however I don't think the e-8 is that much ahead or behind for that matter the Liberty League.  Your points as always are dead spot on about the schedules.  Sometimes I think that coaches think they need to "pad their record" a little bit to get recognition but true recognition comes from beating quality teams not the bottom dwellers. Always liked RPI for that fact as they take a shot at some quality teams every year.  They may get whipped but they take their shot!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 08, 2013, 11:55:02 PM
After tonight what a "logjam"  Hobart and probably Union are in but Skidmore at 8-5 Clarkson and RPI at 7-5 and SLU at 7-6 - that leaves 2 spots up for grabs as they all seem to be playing each other.  Think the next 2 games decide my Knights fate _ RPI tomorrow and Skidmore on Tuesday - both at home. C'mon Knights !  Do the work!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 09, 2013, 07:41:53 AM
Quote from: with age came? on February 08, 2013, 06:21:45 PM
Hey Magic!   Very illuminating!   I knew that the my Knights schedule out of the league was pretty weak but I thought the win over Ithaca gave them some credibility.  Without question the YAC is the beast of the east in d3 however I don't think the e-8 is that much ahead or behind for that matter the Liberty League.  Your points as always are dead spot on about the schedules.  Sometimes I think that coaches think they need to "pad their record" a little bit to get recognition but true recognition comes from beating quality teams not the bottom dwellers. Always liked RPI for that fact as they take a shot at some quality teams every year.  They may get whipped but they take their shot!

The coaches that do this took a course at Syracuse called "Jim Boeheim Schedule Planning 101"...subtitled  "How to Schedule 10 Cupcakes to Obtain a Natonal Ranking". (Just call the coaches of Wagner, Princeton, Colgate, Eastern Michigan, Long Beach State, Monmouth, Canisius, Detroit, Alcorn State, and Central Connecticut.   

Coaches from the East Region that signed up for the course this year were Union, Clarkson and Oswego State. They all aced the course. ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2013, 11:00:29 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 09, 2013, 07:41:53 AM
Coaches from the East Region that signed up for the course this year were Union, Clarkson and Oswego State. They all aced the course. ;D

And they aced the course how? I don't remember any of these teams getting any national ranking :).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2013, 05:32:56 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2013, 11:00:29 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 09, 2013, 07:41:53 AM
Coaches from the East Region that signed up for the course this year were Union, Clarkson and Oswego State. They all aced the course. ;D

And they aced the course how? I don't remember any of these teams getting any national ranking :).

They aced the course by scheduling all those cupcakes they faced. ;D Fortunately the voters of the D3 Top 25 didn't fall for those shenanigans and took their SOS for what it was...very poor. 8-)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on February 10, 2013, 08:44:15 PM
So, I was looking at the regional rankings and the Massey ratings and I was curious about how that all shook out, as the Massey ratings have some teams higher than others, while the regional rankings don't reflect that same lineup. I'm assuming it's because the ratings are through this weekend's games and the rankings came out before that.

EAST                  
1   Rochester (N.Y.)   18-1   19-1         
2   SUNY Cortland   17-2   17-3         
3   Stevens Institute of Technology   15-3   17-3         
4   New York University   13-7   13-7         
5   Hobart   12-6   13-6         
6   SUNY Geneseo   14-6   14-7

Now, U of R is 20-2, having gone 1-1 since the rankings came out. Of course, the loss is out of region, against Wash U today, and the win is out of region as well, correct?
Cortland is 19-3, two wins in region
Stevens is 20-3, with their three wins all in region
NYU is 13-9, both of their losses were out of region, right?
Hobart is 16-6, their three wins are in region
Geneseo is 14-9, and both of their losses were in region.

Now, according to the latest Massey ratings, through Feb. 9, the top 10 teams in East, I believe (don't shoot me if I'm wrong, I don't usually try to figure such things out, but I was curious so I gave it a shot. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though) are:

1) U of R (Massey rating 6, sure to drop with today's loss by 19)
2) Cortland (21)
3) Stevens (48)
4) Hobart (60)
5) Union (74)
6) NYU (75)
7) Plattsburgh (78)
8) Oswego (87)
9) Ithaca (103)
10) Brockport (107)

Geneseo, which was sixth in the regional rankings, was 12th in the East in the Massey ratings at 128, behind Buffalo State which was rated 122nd.

I'm assuming the next regional rankings will have the same top 5, though, since U of R and NYU's games were out of region, right? And my other question is who the 6th team will be in the next rankings? I mean, according to Massey, it would be Union, but since their schedule strength is low, wouldn't Plattsburgh or Oswego seem more likely to get into the top 6?

Again, just curious how this is all shaking out. I appreciate the enlightenment from the much more informed board members.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on February 11, 2013, 12:16:09 AM
Conference games are all in region I thought.  So Rochester's loss to Wash U (and win vs. Chicago) count as in-region.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 11, 2013, 12:23:18 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 10, 2013, 08:44:15 PM
So, I was looking at the regional rankings and the Massey ratings and I was curious about how that all shook out, as the Massey ratings have some teams higher than others, while the regional rankings don't reflect that same lineup. I'm assuming it's because the ratings are through this weekend's games and the rankings came out before that.

EAST                  
1   Rochester (N.Y.)   18-1   19-1         
2   SUNY Cortland   17-2   17-3         
3   Stevens Institute of Technology   15-3   17-3         
4   New York University   13-7   13-7         
5   Hobart   12-6   13-6         
6   SUNY Geneseo   14-6   14-7

Now, U of R is 20-2, having gone 1-1 since the rankings came out. Of course, the loss is out of region, against Wash U today, and the win is out of region as well, correct?
Cortland is 19-3, two wins in region
Stevens is 20-3, with their three wins all in region
NYU is 13-9, both of their losses were out of region, right?
Hobart is 16-6, their three wins are in region
Geneseo is 14-9, and both of their losses were in region.

Now, according to the latest Massey ratings, through Feb. 9, the top 10 teams in East, I believe (don't shoot me if I'm wrong, I don't usually try to figure such things out, but I was curious so I gave it a shot. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though) are:

1) U of R (Massey rating 6, sure to drop with today's loss by 19)
2) Cortland (21)
3) Stevens (48)
4) Hobart (60)
5) Union (74)
6) NYU (75)
7) Plattsburgh (78)
8) Oswego (87)
9) Ithaca (103)
10) Brockport (107)

Geneseo, which was sixth in the regional rankings, was 12th in the East in the Massey ratings at 128, behind Buffalo State which was rated 122nd.

I'm assuming the next regional rankings will have the same top 5, though, since U of R and NYU's games were out of region, right? And my other question is who the 6th team will be in the next rankings? I mean, according to Massey, it would be Union, but since their schedule strength is low, wouldn't Plattsburgh or Oswego seem more likely to get into the top 6?

Again, just curious how this is all shaking out. I appreciate the enlightenment from the much more informed board members.

buck.
See my post on the SUNYAC board in reply to your question.

Also see my post on the East Region Rankings to answer any questions you may have about what constitues a regional game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldDanny on February 12, 2013, 10:01:16 PM
Hobart knocked off RIT tonight to move to 13 - 1 in the LL.  There may have been more league teams at certain times in the past, so this may be wrong, but I think if they win both of their games this weekend they will have the most season wins in Liberty League history!  Certainly not a easy weekend though.  Good Luck Statesmen!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 16, 2013, 07:47:24 AM
Tuned in last night to hear Ted Baker call the Hobart and Clarkson game. 

Statesmen lead for most of the contest with four players getting double digit points.  Thompson lead all scorers with 22.

The win was Hobart's 10th straight which set a team record and locked up the regular season LL title for the Statesmen.

A recap is below:

http://hwsathletics.com/news/2013/2/15/HBB_0215135814.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on February 18, 2013, 02:12:03 AM
Does the Liberty League site have the actual records/tournament right??

According to the standings, both Skidmore and Clarkson finished tied for 4th at 9-7 and each team was 1-1 against the other.  Clarkson was 1-1 against Hobart (Hobart's only league loss) while Skidmore was 0-2, so I figured that would give them the 4th seed, but I guess not as it says Skidmore's got it and is playing Hobart.  Hopefully Magic or someone else can explain what the tiebreaker was.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 18, 2013, 11:57:44 AM
I'll beat Magic to this one.. as an RPI grad I've been following this and received a copy of the LL tiebreaker process.. it has a bit of a switch in its process that gave the tiebreaker to Skidmore... rather than record vs no 1, then no 2 etc, it first looks at the CUMULATIVE record vs all teams ahead of the tied teams... the record vs Hobart, Union and RPI....  Skidmore was 2-4, Clarkson 1-5...   Skidmore gets the spot...  had that finished tied, the next element would have been against 'the ladder', and Clarkson's win vs Hobart would have been the decider....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on February 18, 2013, 02:16:14 PM
Thanks!  +1 to you.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 19, 2013, 12:02:30 PM
This just in from @hwssid / hwsathletics.com:

Richie Bonney named to 2013 Capital One Academic All-America DIII MBB First Team.

www.hwsathletics.com/news/2013/2/19/HBB_0219134545.aspx

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 24, 2013, 05:10:43 AM
Congratulations to Hobart and Rich Bonnie!  Good luck in the NCAA's!!  Hope another Liberty League team gets an ECAC bid ( my understanding is if schools don't indicate their interest formally in the beginning of the season they may not be able to play & I don't think there is a snowballs chance in hell of a Pool C bid)..  Certainly any of the other playoff schools and (maybe an outside chance for Clarkson) would seem to be worthy.  If Clarkson gets a bid I will make every effort to go to my first D-3 game this year as I'm finally feeling a little more healthy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 25, 2013, 01:35:47 PM
Drawing RIC in the first round seems like a raw deal for the Statesmen...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2013, 08:54:48 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on February 25, 2013, 01:35:47 PM
Drawing RIC in the first round seems like a raw deal for the Statesmen...

It is a bit of bad luck that they sent Hobart out on the road. Especially after the NCAA made a big to do about the New Jersey schools not ever getting to host an NCAA event because of the state's gambling issues. Then they go and give Ramapo and Stevens home games by letting them rent some facilities at  New York schools. I think Hobart will have a tough time getting by Rhode Island, a team that has made it to the sweet 16 several times in the past few years. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2013, 11:56:44 PM
As several have said including the committee chair, the New Jersey schools were allowed to put in for hosting sites outside of their state... the committee bracketed not worrying about the hosting situation first and foremost... and in the long run didn't want to punish the students involved for something out of their control. They found a place to host... they deserved to host... they got it.

From what I have learned, Hobart finished sixth in the regional rankings in the final East rankings... RIC was fourth in the Northeast... that is a fair match up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 26, 2013, 02:24:57 AM
Guess all of my teams are done for the season.  Went on the ECAC web site to find out about the upstate tournament and I think that they did not have enough teams to hold one.  Appparently Clarkson and RPI withdrew and most of the other teams that declared are in the "big dance" except for Hartwick. Perhaps Magic or Bengals Rule or Bear or somebody can tell why not one SUNYAC school declared?  Do they have to many games to be able to play?  It makes me sad because I think Clarkson and RPI would have been invited to play if they had remained - though there stilll might not have been enough teams. Any way I'll have to root for Magic's Cards although the winner of the Husson/Cards game faces a daunting task against Amherst (who I have losing to UW Whitewater in the semis).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jdex on February 26, 2013, 09:51:12 AM
Am sure Cortland would have declared for any postseason play. Tis been Coach Span's process through a long tenure. Believe some schools declare and then decide not to participate. Some coaches with young squads usually like extending the season. Some leave it up to the players. Some don't like being thrown the ECAC crums. Many reasons for sure. Seems to us it's always good on the school's resume to say you made the postseason, however small the reward.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 26, 2013, 11:29:32 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2013, 11:56:44 PM
As several have said including the committee chair, the New Jersey schools were allowed to put in for hosting sites outside of their state... the committee bracketed not worrying about the hosting situation first and foremost... and in the long run didn't want to punish the students involved for something out of their control. They found a place to host... they deserved to host... they got it.

From what I have learned, Hobart finished sixth in the regional rankings in the final East rankings... RIC was fourth in the Northeast... that is a fair match up.

If you look at the bracket however it appears as though RIC is a 2 seed and Hobart a 15....

Guess we'll find out Saturday night.  Hopefully HOB can give them a scare like they did to Cabrini, maybe even pull off the (big) upset.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2013, 11:43:10 AM
Division III doesn't have seeding and looking at a bracket you can't determine RIC is #2 and Hobart is #15... because so much of the decisions in the early rounds and further down the bracket have to do with geography and the ability to get teams to a location without using a plane (500 miles or less).

So you look at the first round, the most likely potential of the second round, and so on. If the NCAA spots the chance of unnecessary flights... then the committee is tasked to reexamine what they created. Usually the committees don't get dinged too much because they do take the time to consider the long-range possibilities. So while RIC and Hobart are sitting in where a 2/15 game would be set-up in a "traditional D1 bracket"... this is D3 and that isn't even close to that match up. It is a #6 regionally ranked team (Hobart) vs. a #4 regionally ranked team (RIC).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 26, 2013, 02:05:12 PM
Quote from: with age came? on February 26, 2013, 02:24:57 AM
Went on the ECAC web site to find out about the upstate tournament and I think that they did not have enough teams to hold one.  Appparently Clarkson and RPI withdrew and most of the other teams that declared are in the "big dance" except for Hartwick. Perhaps Magic or Bengals Rule or Bear or somebody can tell why not one SUNYAC school declared? 

Wouldn't be surprised if budgets factored into it.  Most SUNY schools are being squeezed pretty hard financially, and it's hard to justify $5K for the bus, hotel, meals for an ECAC tournament game.

You also have to have above a .500 overall record to qualify. 

That leaves only Geneseo, Brockport, Buff State and Oswego. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Argylebballer on February 26, 2013, 04:17:36 PM
RIC alum here. All friendly stuff, but I don't know much about Hobart. What would you say about the team?
Also anyone here making the trip to Providence this weekend?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2013, 01:07:54 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on February 26, 2013, 11:29:32 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2013, 11:56:44 PM
As several have said including the committee chair, the New Jersey schools were allowed to put in for hosting sites outside of their state... the committee bracketed not worrying about the hosting situation first and foremost... and in the long run didn't want to punish the students involved for something out of their control. They found a place to host... they deserved to host... they got it.

From what I have learned, Hobart finished sixth in the regional rankings in the final East rankings... RIC was fourth in the Northeast... that is a fair match up.

If you look at the bracket however it appears as though RIC is a 2 seed and Hobart a 15....

Guess we'll find out Saturday night.  Hopefully HOB can give them a scare like they did to Cabrini, maybe even pull off the (big) upset.

Yeah, this doesn't read like a D-I bracket, though, especially with the island teams thrown in. I'd think of it like a 7-10 game feeding into a 2 Ramapo or a 6-11 game feeding into a 3 Ramapo.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Argylebballer on February 27, 2013, 06:30:22 PM
Pat you really think RIC is a 6 or a 7 if you think D1 brackets? How would Ramapo be such a metter seed?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2013, 11:05:28 PM
A bracket of 16 generally would have two regions' worth of rankings in it. Ramapo was No. 1 in the Atlantic and RIC was No. 4 in the Northeast. Mid-Atlantic No. 1 is in the bracket as well, as is South No. 2, Mid-Atlantic No. 3 and West No. 4. That's a good number of teams who certainly could be seeded ahead of RIC.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on February 28, 2013, 12:42:39 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2013, 11:05:28 PM
A bracket of 16 generally would have two regions' worth of rankings in it. Ramapo was No. 1 in the Atlantic and RIC was No. 4 in the Northeast. Mid-Atlantic No. 1 is in the bracket as well, as is South No. 2, Mid-Atlantic No. 3 and West No. 4. That's a good number of teams who certainly could be seeded ahead of RIC.

Where do you think a RIC Ramapo second round matchup would take place?? 
Do you know if Ramapo sent in to host at a neutral site (Nyack) for the second and third rounds, or just the first??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2013, 01:00:24 AM
I don't know the details on their hosting, unfortunately. I believe it's safe to say Ramapo is seeded to host, but I don't know if it will be able to.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 03, 2013, 05:30:17 AM
For the 2nd year in a row the Hobart Statesmen suffer a tough overtime loss on the road  to a  highly ranked team . Last year it was a 90-88 overtime loss at Cabrini to the eventual 2nd place Cavaliers who came within 3 points of winnning the National Championship.

This year they traveled to Rhode Island College and lost to the Anchormen 62-59 in overtime. Hobart couldn't hold a 50-48 lead with less than a minute to play and after a turnover with 37 seconds left allowed RIC to tie it up at 50, the Statesmen turned it over on their next 2 possessions and never got a shot off for a chance to win it. Instead RIC had 2 chances to win but missed both of their attempts and the extra period was necessary. The teams traded 3 pointers to open the overtime session and after RIC got another basket, Hobart hit 2 free throws to tie it at 55. But the Anchormen hit another big 3 pointer and once again Hobart turned the ball over and this time RIC made them pay as they scored again for a 5 point lead with 2:53 left on the clock. 2 Hobart layups sandwiched a single RIC free throw to cut the lead to 61-59 with 17 ticks left. Hobart had to foul and the Anchormen made 1 of 2 to make it a 3 point lead. With the clock ticking down Rhode Island chose to foul rather than risk a three pointer for the tie. With only 2 second left Hobart was out of options and after missing the 1st free throw intentionally missed the second but RIC corraled the rebound and the win.

The Anchormen did their homework because they held the Liberty League Player of the Year, Stefan Thompson to a season low 3 points. Richie Bonney led Hobart with a huge game of 22 points and 19 rebounds. Connor Rehbaum scored 13 points and  Rezin Davis had 10 points off the bench. If Thompson can just get half of his ppg average the Statesmen win this one in regulation. Hobart finishes the year with a 21-7 record.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on March 03, 2013, 06:03:40 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 28, 2013, 12:42:39 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2013, 11:05:28 PM
A bracket of 16 generally would have two regions' worth of rankings in it. Ramapo was No. 1 in the Atlantic and RIC was No. 4 in the Northeast. Mid-Atlantic No. 1 is in the bracket as well, as is South No. 2, Mid-Atlantic No. 3 and West No. 4. That's a good number of teams who certainly could be seeded ahead of RIC.

Where do you think a RIC Ramapo second round matchup would take place?
Do you know if Ramapo sent in to host at a neutral site (Nyack) for the second and third rounds, or just the first??

At Morrisville?   ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 03, 2013, 03:02:31 PM
Quote from: Ethelred the Unready on March 03, 2013, 06:03:40 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 28, 2013, 12:42:39 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2013, 11:05:28 PM
A bracket of 16 generally would have two regions' worth of rankings in it. Ramapo was No. 1 in the Atlantic and RIC was No. 4 in the Northeast. Mid-Atlantic No. 1 is in the bracket as well, as is South No. 2, Mid-Atlantic No. 3 and West No. 4. That's a good number of teams who certainly could be seeded ahead of RIC.

Where do you think a RIC Ramapo second round matchup would take place?
Do you know if Ramapo sent in to host at a neutral site (Nyack) for the second and third rounds, or just the first??

At Morrisville?   ;D

Good one Ethelred.  Would have been nice for the Mustangs if they had been chosen to host Rhode Island but we knew the NCAA wouldn't let that one fly.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 11, 2013, 03:39:10 PM
It's that time of year when we can choose a player to play in the NABC All Star Game that is taking place in Salem, Va. this year. Last year East Region player Ralph Temgoua from St. Lawrence was voted onto the team. This year one of the players that can be voted onto the team is SUNYAC Player of the Year, forward Hayden Ward from Oswego State. I urge all the visitors to this board to go to the front page of D3hoops and vote for Hayden. He needs our support as he's way behind the current leaders.

Here's the link:  http://d3hoops.com/landing/index?t=1363029315978

The voting only lasts for 2 days so don't wait to cast your vote. Do it now.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 18, 2013, 07:42:00 PM
The NABC has released their All District Teams for Division III today.

Players from the Liberty League:

Stefan Thompson from Hobart was selected for the 1st Team.

Richie Bonney from Hobart and Kevin Donahue from Union were selected for the 2nd Team

Also:
John DiBartolomeo of Rochester was chosen as the East District Player of the Year.

Coach Tom Spanbauer from Cortland State was the selected as the Coach of the Year

Congratulations to all.

Here's the complete East Region Teams:

EAST
First Team                                                                             Second Team

*John DiBartolomeo, Rochester                                               Richie Bonney, Hobart
Sheldon Jones, Stevens Institute of Technology                        Kevin Donohue, Union
Sean Rossi, Ithaca                                                                 Jason Norsen, St. John Fisher
Stefan Thompson, Hobart                                                       Jake Simmons, Buffalo State
Hayden Ward, SUNY Oswego                                                   Carl Yaffe, NYU
Jesse Winter, SUNY Cortland
Coach of the Year: Tom Spanbauer, SUNY-Cortland
*District Player of the Year

Here's a link showing the complete NABC All District Teams from the entire country:

http://static.psbin.com/z/e/dtmf3oj4do2ttt/2013_NABC_Division_III_All-District_Teams_and_Coaches.pdf
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on April 07, 2013, 05:15:41 PM
Congratulations to Amherst on its d-3 championship!!  Of course I always have my fantasies but the way I look at it - Springfield Pride beat Amherst and Ithaca beat Springfield and Clarkson beat Ithaca - so Clarkson had a team capable of winning the national championship!!!!  At least on a given day!! ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on April 07, 2013, 10:03:04 PM
I must have looked at that game between Clarkson and Ithaca about a dozen times when I was trying to determine if I would draft an Ithaca player for my fantasy team. I wanted to draft Warech in one of the later rounds and didn't think he'd get taken but just before it was my turn to draft in the 5th round another guy took him. But yeah Clarkson, with the win over Ithaca, who beat Springfield, who beat Amherst  has a legitimate claim to #1. ;D Too bad the Knights couldn't beat RPI and get into the LL tournament, though. ???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on April 08, 2013, 02:41:26 PM
And then of course, My Bears, who were undefeated against their St. Lawrence County Rivals also beat Clarkson (by 12), Who 10 days earlier had beaten Ithaca (by 2), Who Beat Springfield, Who Beat Amherst.  And yet the Bears didn't crack the top 6 of the 'yac.

It could drive you Crazy!

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on July 03, 2013, 10:33:17 PM
This came out today, a new coaching opening in the LL. Bob Montana has moved from the sidelines to the administrative ranks, taking on the role of assistant athletic director at Union College.

http://www.unionathletics.com/news/2013/7/2/MBB_0702134335.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on August 05, 2013, 07:55:29 PM
Saw this today on Hoop Dirt:

(BEGINNING OF POST) Union College (NY) is down to as few as four candidates to replace Bob Montana. The names include:

• Pete Durr – Assistant coach Union College. Has been an assistant at Union for three seasons. Also worked as an assistant at Utica.

• Aaron Galletta – Head coach Lasell College. Graduated from Union as the program's all-time leading scorer in 2002 with 1,949 career points. Is 91-99 in 7 seasons at Lasell.

• Chris Murphy – Assistant coach Emory. Another former Union player. Spent two seasons as an assistant at Union after graduation. Has been at Emory since 2009.

• Jamie Snyder-Fair – Assistant coach Yale. Has been at Yale for the past three seasons – before that, he was a DIII assistant at Washington and Lee, and Vassar. Played at Colby College. (END OF POST)


It will be interesting to see if they "keep it in the family" as the first three candidates mentioned all have clear connections to Montana, not sure about the last one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on August 06, 2013, 02:50:40 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on August 05, 2013, 07:55:29 PM
Saw this today on Hoop Dirt:

(BEGINNING OF POST) Union College (NY) is down to as few as four candidates to replace Bob Montana. The names include:

• Pete Durr – Assistant coach Union College. Has been an assistant at Union for three seasons. Also worked as an assistant at Utica.

• Aaron Galletta – Head coach Lasell College. Graduated from Union as the program's all-time leading scorer in 2002 with 1,949 career points. Is 91-99 in 7 seasons at Lasell.

• Chris Murphy – Assistant coach Emory. Another former Union player. Spent two seasons as an assistant at Union after graduation. Has been at Emory since 2009.

• Jamie Snyder-Fair – Assistant coach Yale. Has been at Yale for the past three seasons – before that, he was a DIII assistant at Washington and Lee, and Vassar. Played at Colby College. (END OF POST)


It will be interesting to see if they "keep it in the family" as the first three candidates mentioned all have clear connections to Montana, not sure about the last one.

Buck,
I'm guessing they go with Aaron Galletta, but it's only a guess. I know nothing about the process.

Whoever they hire I hope they play a tougher out of conference schedule than they did last year. Otherwise they'll still be staying at home come NCAA tournament time, with 20+ wins and no conference title.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: buck1053 on August 09, 2013, 03:19:39 PM
The rumor I'm hearing is that Murphy is the choice at Union, though I've found nothing official yet. I will say it's interesting they had three of Montana's guys — Murphy, Galletta and Durr — in the final mix.

As for schedule, don't they usually put that together before the school year starts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on August 09, 2013, 07:36:14 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on August 09, 2013, 03:19:39 PM
The rumor I'm hearing is that Murphy is the choice at Union, though I've found nothing official yet. I will say it's interesting they had three of Montana's guys — Murphy, Galletta and Durr — in the final mix.

As for schedule, don't they usually put that together before the school year starts?


Buck, you are correct. Most schools usually have the majority of their scheduling done by now but many times there are a few non-conference games that they might have to fill, to round it out. Bringing in a new coach as late as they are, Montana may have already completed the schedule, since he's still at Union in the other position you mentioned previously. I was referring to the scheduling the new coach will get to do when he's actually in place, which will be 2013-14. I'll be surprised if Union's strength of schedule this coming season is any better than last year.

Murphy makes sense. Union grad, coming from the UAA conference, which is higher profile than where the other 2 Union grads have assisted. Thought the fact that Galleta was already a head coach may give him a slight edge.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on August 11, 2013, 09:55:08 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on August 09, 2013, 03:19:39 PM


As for schedule, don't they usually put that together before the school year starts?

FYI..  Approximately 70% of D3 schools already have their 2013-14 schedules posted on their Basketball sites....  Union is one of the 30% that is not up yet.....  Those that aren't up yet are likely busy concentrating on Fall sports and haven't got it posted yet, or as suggested, are still looking for their final game or couple of games.
In the Liberty League, Clarkson, Hobart, RIT, and Vassar have full schedules posted, Bard (23 games) and St Lawrence (22 games) are posted but incomplete, and RPI, Union, and Skidmore are not yet posted....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 11, 2013, 01:49:29 PM
Here's what we have for Liberty League schedules:
http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Bard/Men/2013-14/index
http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Clarkson/Men/2013-14/index
http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Hobart/Men/2013-14/index
http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Rochester_Tech/Men/2013-14/index
http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/St._Lawrence/Men/2013-14/index
http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Vassar/Men/2013-14/index

22 games is really light for St. Lawrence, but Bard might try to make do at 23. Guess we'll see.

And because we have so many of the other teams, that means we have a partial schedule for Union:
http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Union/Men/2013-14/index

Once we get 16 games for RPI and Skidmore, the site will display those.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on August 12, 2013, 01:55:42 AM
Bard is showing 24 plus 1 TBA so they will have their 25 games. SLU will have 25 as well, I'm sure they'll add 3 more. SUNY Canton might be 1 (since they played them last year) plus a 2 game tournament somewhere.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on August 15, 2013, 04:58:59 PM
Looks like Union has made their coaching announcement:

http://unionathletics.com/news/2013/8/8/MBB_0808132848.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on September 16, 2013, 12:31:51 PM
It is with a heavy heart that I relate the news of the passing this past weekend of legendary RPI Basketball Coach Bill Kalbaugh. 
Bill Kalbaugh was Head Basketball Coach at RPI from 1953-1983....  I played for him, coached with him, admired him greatly....

http://www.rpiathletics.com/news/2013/9/16/MBB_0916133630.aspx?path=mbball

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/star-gazette/obituary.aspx?n=robert-william-kalbaugh&pid=166956222&fhid=13269#fbLoggedOut
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 16, 2013, 01:14:35 PM
Quote from: ucaafan on August 15, 2013, 04:58:59 PM
Looks like Union has made their coaching announcement:

http://unionathletics.com/news/2013/8/8/MBB_0808132848.aspx

I just wanted to give you a shout-out for your username. I know you've been a poster here since at least 2003 but now it's a throwback reference!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on September 16, 2013, 05:17:57 PM
An oldie but goodie. Pat - you  and your staff do a great job with this site.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 08, 2013, 04:49:07 PM
D3hoops preseason All America team was released today. here are the players from the East Region that were honored:

Jared Suderley            2nd Team    Senior forward from Hartwick

John Ivy                     3rd Team    Senior guard from Brockport State

Richie Bonney             4th Team    Senior forward from Hobart

Here's the link to the complete list of All Americans:  http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/preseason-2014
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on November 17, 2013, 11:02:13 AM
Saw Union play this weekend and honestly they had some Talented players on there squad. thought they shouldve beat Fredonia friday night. they will be a tough out for teams in the Liberty League.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on November 24, 2013, 11:34:49 AM
Skidmore is very good... RIT is 4-0 but i think the Wendys Classic will show how good this team really is.. Coach McVean and Coach Roberts are 2 of my favorite coaches in the region and do a great job with the program. Coach Roberts is a Great future Head Coach. Hobart is pretty good.. i think Skidmore is a little better right now. but Hobart could be better by the end of the year. St Lawrence played a tough game against Oswego and it looks like St Lawrence is talented. Bard is 2-2 and i think they will get better as the season goes along. Clarkson hasnt proven anything really by beating Canton twice and Potsdam once. Vassar is a team im really rooting for, Coach Dunne and Coach Eisner are going to rebuild this program. Big fan of both of them.. Coach Eisner is another great future Head Coach, he is committed to building a winning program and knows what it takes to do so. Union looked okay against Fredonia in the BSG Tournament at Naz, but didnt play well at all against Sage, I think they have 2-3 really talented players, they will be a tough team to handle during the LL Conference.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL! ENJOY THANKSGIVING
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: middhoops on December 08, 2013, 12:59:37 PM
Hi Folks,
Just checking in here, a day or two late I guess, for any buzz on Skidmore.  Drove down to Saratoga from Middlebury yesterday for a great game.  Our team outlasted the Thoroughbreds in a shootout but we all came away from it feeling lucky.  Skidmore is VERY good.
I'm going to be following the Liberty League to see how they fare.  IMO, they have three real impact players in Medunjinan, Merrill and Sanders.  Their beast of a point guard has eaten our lunch two years in a row now.
Can anyone tell me how they are rated going into league play versus the rest of the conference?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 08, 2013, 02:49:11 PM
Quote from: middhoops on December 08, 2013, 12:59:37 PM
Hi Folks,
Just checking in here, a day or two late I guess, for any buzz on Skidmore.  Drove down to Saratoga from Middlebury yesterday for a great game.  Our team outlasted the Thoroughbreds in a shootout but we all came away from it feeling lucky.  Skidmore is VERY good.
I'm going to be following the Liberty League to see how they fare.  IMO, they have three real impact players in Medunjinan, Merrill and Sanders.  Their beast of a point guard has eaten our lunch two years in a row now.
Can anyone tell me how they are rated going into league play versus the rest of the conference?

Hi middhoops,

Not a lot of posters here on the Liberty League board. I've tried to keep it going but some of the regulars from a few years ago have moved on or make very infrequent appearances. I live in the Plattsburgh area and went to college at Potsdam State many years ago. I post primarily on the SUNYAC board since Plattsburgh State is my home team. Attending school in Potsdam and having friends at Clarkson and St. Lawrence  has led me to follow those teams, as I have known players and coaches from those institutions over the years. I am familiar with all the teams in the Liberty League, Empire 8 conference and SUNYAC. I keep fairly close tabs on all the teams in the East region but also follow the D3 action nationwide. I lurk over on the NESCAC board and occasionally post there. I am familiar with you and most of the posters on the board.  In fact I will be in your gym on Jan.7th when Plattsburgh State will take on your Panthers. Perhaps we will get a chance to meet. I plan on arriving in town early to have a nice prime rib supper at the Fire and Ice restaurant and then take in the women's and men's game.

Regarding your question about Skidmore... The Thoroughbreds are, in my opinion, one of the top two teams in the conference. They will battle it out with Hobart for Liberty League honors this year. Hobart is currently ranked in the D3hoops Top 25 at #23, but that's something that happened because of a lack of knowledge on the part of some of the voters and the fact that it's so early in the year. Hobart is not a Top 25 caliber team. They just lost 2 games this week in the Wendy's Classic tournament that involves the 8 schools in the Rochester area. I actually think that Skidmore may be the team that will win the Liberty League.  They opened the season with a win at Rhode Island College and that's never an easy thing to do. Their only other loss was to a decent Babson team on the road and they just had an off night shooting, especially from long range and the foul line. The 3 players that you mentioned are all solid and the Brooks kid, who only had 9 points against Middlebury was the 2nd leading scorer on the team last year averaging over 14 ppg. The biggest problem with Skidmore is they have a very short bench. The starting 5 account for 76 of their 80 ppg average. Hobart has the same problem, not much depth. Good news for the Thoroughbreds is they will return their entire starting 5 next year. St. Lawrence, Clarkson, and Vassar will be in the mix for the other playoff spots. (Only the top 4 make the conference tournament) RIT, RPI, Union and Bard will round out the standings.  Hope this helps. I root for the Panthers for every game except one. Used to watch Coach Brown light it up from downtown when he was a baller. ;D  I'm sure he still can if he gets the urge. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 30, 2013, 01:41:48 PM
Nice pair of wins by Skidmore yesterday and today down at Daytona beach Florida.

Sunday the Throroughbreds defeated FDU-Florham 75-70

Today in a game that just ended the Thoroughbreds took down a decent Carnegie-Mellon team 82-70.

Skidmore improves to 6-2 on the season and will be back in action on Saturday, January 4th when they host William Paterson at 1 PM.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on January 08, 2014, 02:21:01 PM
Impressed with the 8-1 Vassar start so far. Hobart is less talented than Last year but will have as just as good of a record i believe. Credit Mike Neer and the great job he does year after year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 10, 2014, 11:26:59 PM
I guess there's a new Sheriff in town:       Vassar College 71 at  Skidmore 66.

The Brewers and Thoroughbreds were tied at 62 with 4 minutes to play. Vassar made the plays down the stretch to win it as Skidmore misfired on 4 straight possessions. By then it was 68-62 with 41 seconds left. Skidmore narrowed the gap with 2 free throws, fouled Vassar who missed the front end of a 1&1. Skidmore rebounded, missed a 3, rebounded and missed another 3. They had to foul and the Brewers closed the door at the line. Big win for Vassar.

St. Lawrence 79  Union 78    There were 6 lead changes and a tie in the final 3 minutes of this game. Saints hit a bucket with 10 seconds left to take the lead for good. Dutchmen with a layup at the buzzer that wouldn't go down.

Hobart wins the track meet  106-93 over RPI.  Hobart used a 12-0 run starting at the 11 minute mark of the first half to break open a tie game as the Statesmen led at the break 54-44. The Red Hawks closed to within a single possession twice, at 64-61, and again at 66-64, but could never get over the hump. Another 12-0 run made it 78-64, with 10:48 to play, and the Statesmen were never seriously threatened from that point on.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on January 16, 2014, 02:23:13 AM
Even Bard isn't totally terrible this year either.  Can Vassar sustain this for 7 more weeks??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on January 21, 2014, 03:51:11 PM
With the Regional Rankings coming out here soon. Here's how i think they will look like!
1. Brockport State 11-1 Overall 5-0 Conference SOS 60
2. Plattsburgh State 10-3 Overall 4-2 Conference SOS 40
3. Geneseo State 10-2 Overall 4-1 Conference SOS 173
4. New York University 11-3 Overall 1-2 Conference SOS 195
5. Hobart 10-4 Overall 4-1 Conference SOS 179
6. St John Fisher 10-5 Overall 4-1 Conference SOS 189

In contention, Nazareth, Stevens, Oneonta, Hartwick, Oswego State, Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on February 09, 2014, 05:34:49 PM
With Regional Rankings on its way this week heres how I think the East Regional Rankings will look like
1. Brockport
2. Plattsburgh
3. Geneseo
4. NYU
5. Hobart
6. Stevens
I think Nazareth is 7th and Vassar 8th. Main reason I think Stevens is ahead of Naz is because they beat them twice.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 09, 2014, 07:22:07 PM
We heard you the first time Derrick! ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on February 10, 2014, 07:13:36 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 09, 2014, 07:22:07 PM
We heard you the first time Derrick! ;D

Just in case you missed it!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2014, 08:59:38 PM
Quote from: Bengalsrule on February 10, 2014, 07:13:36 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 09, 2014, 07:22:07 PM
We heard you the first time Derrick! ;D

Just in case you missed it!


Bengalsrule,
I think you missed it.  Derrick's last post...the one at 5:34 yesterday, was a copy of another one he posted within a few minutes of that time. So he had 2 posts in a row that were identical. He has since removed one of the duplicates, I believe, before you even noticed that there were identical posts up there. ;D   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on February 10, 2014, 09:05:35 PM
Oops I thought that's what he did here except that he replaced Fisher with Stevens in 6th place!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on February 14, 2014, 09:00:25 PM
So I'm here at the Vassar Skidmore game tonight and the Brewers could really be a contender next year.  Only 2 seniors on roster and 1 hasn't even played in first half.  Of course Skidmore is in same boat (2 seniors only 1 played in first).  Wouldn't be surprised to see a Skidmore/Vassar title game next year.  Vassar leads 40-32 at half, and won the first matchup at Skidmore.  Vassar would go a half game up and own the tiebreaker with a win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2014, 08:12:48 AM
Quote from: 7express on February 14, 2014, 09:00:25 PM
So I'm here at the Vassar Skidmore game tonight and the Brewers could really be a contender next year.  Only 2 seniors on roster and 1 hasn't even played in first half.  Of course Skidmore is in same boat (2 seniors only 1 played in first).  Wouldn't be surprised to see a Skidmore/Vassar title game next year.  Vassar leads 40-32 at half, and won the first matchup at Skidmore.  Vassar would go a half game up and own the tiebreaker with a win.

7,

How do you think Vassar/Skidmore stack up against the top teams in the LEC?.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 7express on February 15, 2014, 09:34:09 AM
Well considering each one has a win against a top 4 team (Skidmore beat Rhode Island College [second place] by 9 on a neutral court, and Vassar beat Western Connecticut [4th place] by 8 at home) I'd say pretty well.  Both of those games were in November, but neither RIC nor Western has changed much since then.  Neither of them looked like they could beat Eastern Connecticut, but each one could probably beat the other 7 teams in the conference.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2014, 03:27:27 PM
Thanks 7. I was wondering if they would be equal to Eastern and thought they might be a step below the Warriors.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on March 07, 2014, 10:58:25 AM
Any chances Hobart surprises Scraton tonight?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: NYHOOPS8 on March 07, 2014, 07:38:04 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on March 07, 2014, 10:58:25 AM
Any chances Hobart surprises Scraton tonight?

Very good chance ;-)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 17, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Here is the D3hoops All East Region Team


Players were nominated for these awards by the Sports Information Directors at the various schools.

Player of the Year: John Ivy, Sr., Brockport State
Coach of the Year: Joe Smith, Morrisville State
Rookie of the Year: Joey Lufkin, G, Hartwick

First team     
Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
G Jordan Prior Morrisville State Sr. Cortland, N.Y.
G John Ivy Brockport State Sr. Rochester, N.Y.
F Brad Ford Nazareth Sr. Victor, N.Y.
F Richie Bonney Hobart Sr. Norwich, N.Y.
F Jared Suderley Hartwick Sr. Newport, N.Y.


Second team     
Pos. Player School Yr. Hometown
G Johnny Mrlik Vassar So. San Francisco, Calif.
G John Coleman Clarkson Jr. Potsdam, N.Y.
F Gordon Lyons Geneseo State Jr. Amherst, N.Y.
F Kevin McMahon Cortland State Sr. Hoosick Falls, N.Y.
F Evan Kupferberg New York University So. Boca Raton, Fla.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 19, 2014, 06:19:46 AM
National Association of Basketball Coaches Announces 2014 NABC Division III All-District Teams and Coaches

*District Player of the Year

East Region

First Team                                                                                                 Second Team

Richie Bonney, Hobart                                                                                John Coleman, Clarkson
Brad Ford, Nazareth                                                                                   Joe Gibbons, Hobart
John Ivy, SUNY Brockport*                                                                     Evan Kupferberg, New York University
Gordon Lyons, SUNY Geneseo                                                                     Kevin McMahon, SUNY Cortland
Jordan Prior, SUNY Morrisville                                                                     Justin Mitchell, Buffalo State
Jared Suderley, Hartwick

Coach of the Year: Greg Dunne, SUNY Brockport

Here's the link to the complete list of All District Teams:
http://www.nabc.org/awards/all_district/2014_NABC_Division_III_All-District_Teams_and_Coaches.pdf
     

A special congratulations to Richie Bonney  from Hobart who was chosen on March 17th as the 2014 Jostens Award Winner.
The Jostens Trophy is emblematic of the top overall student-athlete in Division III basketball.

Here's the link to the story:
http://d3hoops.com/notables/2014/03/fischer-bonney-win-jostens-trophy 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 21, 2014, 05:35:08 AM
The honors continue for some of our East Region players on Thursday, as the NABC released their All American Teams.

Brockport State's John Ivy is named to the 2014 NABC Coaches Division All America First Team.

Richie Bonney of Hobart is named to the All America Second Team.

Jared Suderley of Hartwick is named to the All America Third Team.

Congratulations on the latest post season honors these 3 players have racked up.

Here's the complete list of NABC All Americans:



2014 NABC COACHES' DIVISION III ALL-AMERICA FIRST TEAM
John Ivy, SUNY Brockport, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Rochester, N.Y.
Javae King-Gilchrist, William Paterson, 6-2, Senior, Guard, Teaneck, N.J.
Tyler Peters, Wheaton, 6-4,Senior, Guard, Medina, Ohio
Doug Thorpe, Wooster, 5-9, Senior, Guard, Columbus, Ohio
Tyler Tillema, UW Stevens Point, 6-3, Senior, Guard, Randolph, Wis.
Aaron Toomey, Amherst, 6-1,Senior, Guard, Greensboro, N.C.
Aaron Walton-Moss, Cabrini, 6-1 Junior, Guard, Camden, N.J.
DJ Woodmore, Virginia Wesleyan, 6-3, Senior, Guard, Virginia Beach, Va.


2014 NABC COACHES' DIVISION III ALL-AMERICA SECOND TEAM
Richie Bonney, Hobart, 6-6, Senior, Forward, Norwich, N.Y.
Brandon Gries, St. Norbert, 6-1, Senior, Guard, Kiel, Wis.
Malcolm Heard II, Wilmington, 6-5, Senior, Forward, Wilmington, Ohio
Dan Kornbaum, Augsburg, 6-9, Senior, Post, Little Falls, Minn.
Andre Nixon, SUNY Purchase, 6-3, Senior, Guard, Harlem, N.Y.
Brian Parker, Alvernia, 6-4, Senior, Forward, Chichester, Pa.
Kyle Schleigh, UT Dallas, 6-6, Senior, Forward, Houston, Texas
Darius Watson, Albertus Magnus, 6-5, Senior, Guard/Forward, New Britain, Conn.


2014 NABC COACHES' DIVISION III ALL-AMERICA THIRD TEAM
Mike Garrow, Eastern Connecticut,6-4, Senior, Forward, Terryville, Conn.
Adam Honig, Dickinson, 6-1 Senior, Guard, Chappaqua, N.Y.
Chris Klimek, Washington U-St. Louis, 6-5, Senior, Forward, Inverness, Ill.
Dustin McConnell, Whitworth, 5-11, Senior, Guard, Clarkston, Wash.
Dillon Stith, St. Vincent, 6-5, Senior, Forward, Bedford, Va.
Jared Suderley, Hartwick, 6-6, Senior, Forward, Newport, N.Y.
Larry Thomas, Birmingham Southern, 6-1, Junior, Guard, Atlanta, Ga.
Michael Woods, York (NY), 6-3, Senior, Guard, Brooklyn
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 23, 2014, 05:34:17 AM
D3hoops has released their All America Teams.

Richie Bonney from Hobart was named to the 3rd Team

The 2014 D3hoops.com All-America team

Player of the Year: G Aaron Toomey, Sr., Amherst
Rookie of the Year: F Duncan Robinson, Fr., Williams
Coach of the Year: Pat Miller, UW-Whitewater

First team       
Pos Player School Year Hometown
G Aaron Toomey Amherst Sr. Greensboro, N.C.
G Tyler Tillema UW-Stevens Point Sr. Randolph, Wis.
G Aaron Walton-Moss Cabrini  Jr. Camden, N.J.
F Jared Suderley Hartwick Sr. Newport, N.Y.
C Michael Mayer Williams Sr. Durham, N.C.

Second team       
Pos Player School Year Hometown
G DJ Woodmore Virginia Wesleyan Sr. Virginia Beach, Va.
G John Ivy Brockport State Sr. Rochester, N.Y.
F Jake Davis Emory  Sr.  Cincinnati, Ohio
F Andrew Ziemnik Illinois Wesleyan Sr. Oswego, Ill.
C Dan Kornbaum Augsburg Sr. Little Falls, Minn.

Third team       
Pos Player School Year Hometown
G Xavier Brown Wooster Jr. Bowling Green, Ohio
G Tyler Peters Wheaton (Ill.) Sr. Medina, Ohio
F Kyle Schleigh Texas-Dallas  Sr.  Houston, Texas
F Richie Bonney Hobart Sr. Norwich, N.Y.
C David Langan Wesley Sr. Sayreville, N.J.

Fourth team       
Pos Player School Year Hometown
G Andre Nixon SUNY-Purchase Sr. Harlem, N.Y.
G Trevor Hass UW-Stevens Point Sr. New London, Wis.
G Darius Watson Albertus Magnus  Sr.  New Britain, Conn.
F Duncan Robinson Williams Fr. New Castle, N.H.
F Malcolm Heard II Wilmington Sr. Wilmington, Ohio

Honorable mention       
Pos Player School Year Hometown
G Adam Honig Dickinson Sr. Chappaqua, N.Y.
G Julian Strickland Rose-Hulman Sr. Indianapolis, Ind.
G Brandon Gries St. Norbert  Sr.  Kiel, Wis.
G KJ Evans UW-Whitewater Jr. Beloit, Wis.
F Chris Klimek Washington U. Sr. Inverness, Ill.

Congratulations to all the award winners as so many outstanding players on this list wrap up their college careers. They will be missed.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on March 31, 2014, 01:18:50 PM
Another Great season of Division 3 hoops! As a young kid i feel very happy that i am around these coaches and players who dedicate winter after winter to there teams! I love how Division 3 is a small community like atmosphere especially in the East Region. Was hoping Nazareth would be in the NCAAS and was Heartbroken that these seniors never won an Empire 8 championship or clinched a berth in the NCAA Tournament. Great years are coming with Coach Broderick at the helm.

Enjoyed chatting with everyone on the boards again this year!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on April 13, 2014, 04:39:47 PM
In the news that slipped by me recently.

Greg Dunne from Brockport State was recently named as the winner of the  2014 Glenn Robinson Award which is presented annually to the National Coach of the Year. There were 12 finalists nominated from Division III schools and Greg was chosen as the winner and presented the award on April 4th during the Division I Final Four competition in Dallas Texas.

Nice to see a coach from the East Region grab that honor. Congratulations Coach Dunne  on a great season.

Here's a link to the complete write up: http://www.gobrockport.com/news/2014/3/31/MBB_0331140308.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on May 08, 2014, 12:39:57 PM
Coach Mike Griffin retires at RPI.... thanks for everything my friend

TROY, N.Y. – Long-time Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI) head men's basketball coach Mike Griffin has announced he will retire following a distinguished 30-year career at the helm.

Griffin's retirement is effective May 31 and a national search to find Rensselaer's next head men's basketball coach will begin immediately.

"I have been so fortunate to spend three decades in this wonderful educational environment where intercollegiate athletics are considered important," said Griffin. "Working with talented, dedicated colleagues in the Athletic Department and all around the campus has been a remarkable experience.

"Coaching literally hundreds of RPI student-athletes, sharing winning and losing with them and then watching them move on to successful, productive lives has been an experience to treasure."

"Mike Griffin's time at Rensselaer is marked with incredible successes on the basketball court.  League championships, NCAA bids, Players of the Year and Coach of the Year honors are all part of Mike's resume over the years," said Rensselaer Director of Athletics Jim Knowlton. "But what is even more impressive is the impact that he has had on hundreds of young men during his time as our coach. Mike has provided opportunity for growth both on and off the court. He has helped many to achieve at levels they never thought possible, and that will truly be Mike's legacy at Rensselaer. We are going to miss him dearly."

Griffin was named Rensselaer's 13th head men's basketball coach in August 1984. During his tenure he saw numerous team and individual records set – including his own for most wins in school history – and even more post-season accolades, Hall of Fame inductees and Dean's List student-athletes.

Griffin retires with a mark of 402-382 at Rensselaer, including one season as the head women's coach (1994-95). He guided the Engineers to eight post-season appearances, including three NCAA Tournaments (1991, 1996 & 2009) and he was the league's Coach of the Year five times (1990, 1991, 1995, 1999 & 2011). The Pittsburgh, Pa., native posted at least 20 wins twice and at least 17 victories eight times.

Griffin led the Engineers to the Liberty League Tournament Finals as recently as 2013 when the team won its final seven regular season games and the league semifinal, which was on the road. Just two years prior, he was the Liberty League Coach of the Year after 17 wins and a first place finish in the league's regular season standings.

Other highlights include the 1998-99 season when RPI was first in Division III men's basketball in rebounding margin and third in scoring defense, and 1995-96 when the Engineers were 20-8 and played into the NCAA Tournament's Sweet 16. That came just three seasons after RPI posted a 56-23 mark over the course of three years (1989-90 to 1991-92), in which they won 18 games twice and 20 games once. The 20-win season was 1990-91 when Rensselaer won a school-record 18 straight contests on its way to the NCAA Tournament.

Griffin coached more than 40 All-League honorees, five League Players of the Year, six All-ECAC selections, four D3hoops.com All-Region members and an All-State choice. He is a three-time Marvin H. Anderson Award recipient as Rensselaer's Coach of the Year, as voted on by his peers.

A former assistant varsity coach and the head junior varsity coach at RPI, Griffin returned to Troy from Thiel College, where he was the head coach for one year. Prior to that, he spent six seasons as the head coach at Division I Colgate University.

Griffin played varsity basketball at Columbia University from 1962-65, lettering three years, including two as a starter. He was fourth in the Ivy League in rebounding as a junior and finished second behind only Bill Bradley as a senior, averaging 12.5 per game. He also averaged 8.8 points per game as a senior.

Griffin spent two years at Temple Law School before returning to Columbia for three seasons as the top assistant coach, helping the Lions to three 20-win seasons, a 63-14 mark and an Ivy League Championship. He left Columbia in 1970 to join Kalbaugh at RPI, where he played a major role in recruiting student-athletes who helped the Engineers advance to the NCAA Tournament in 1973, 1975 and 1976 and he was Rensselaer's JV coach, posting a 31-11 record in three seasons.

After leaving RPI in 1973, Griffin made stops back at Columbia and the University of Vermont before landing his first head coaching assignment at Colgate. He spent a year in private business prior to coaching at Thiel, where he was also a member of the Dean of Student's staff.

Griffin has held numerous positions at Rensselaer in addition to head men's basketball coach. Among them were freshman lacrosse coach, a physical education instructor and assistant athletic director.

A graduate of Dormont High School in Pennsylvania and Columbia, where he was a pre-law student with a major in American history, Griffin currently resides in Latham with his wife, Priscilla. They have two grown daughters, Julia, who graduated from Harvard University and now teaches in Ohio, and Emilie, who graduated from Columbia and now teaches in New Hampshire.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Upstate Hoops Dad on June 21, 2014, 03:19:10 PM
Any word on the RPI coaching search? Seems like a very good opportunity for a top program assistant or small school head coach to move up into. . .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Upstate Hoops Dad on June 21, 2014, 03:21:43 PM
Any thoughts on LL incoming Class of 2018 players and potential impact on LL hoop programs? Who looks like the top four teams going into 2014-15?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on July 02, 2014, 05:22:14 PM
Any information about who some of the new talent might be?  Not a lot of press upstate for DIII players
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on July 02, 2014, 08:03:12 PM
http://coachrejbasketball.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/my-top-10-rules-to-landing-that-elusive-coaching-gig/ Coach Mike Rejniak new blog. Very insightful about coaching and D3Hoops! Take a Look!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Upstate Hoops Dad on July 16, 2014, 09:15:07 AM
Lots of coaching changes pretty deep in the summer! Mike Neer with a somewhat surprising (timing-wise. . . in July) retirement, his assistant Russ Phillips gets his first head coaching job at Alfred U., Joe Burke from Skidmore written up as a potential candidate for the vacated Williams College job, RPI job still to be announced.

Seems like a number of programs are going to be hustling to get ready for the start of the season with new coaching staffs in place.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on July 20, 2014, 12:37:39 PM
Well... Williams has announced, so Burke will stay at Skidmore... but good to see he got a chance at the job.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on August 21, 2014, 04:42:13 PM
RPI has hired Mark Gilbride away from Clarkson. He went 75-51 over five seasons there.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Upstate Hoops Dad on August 22, 2014, 08:17:21 AM
I understand the motive for the move to RPI by Mark Gilbride (bigger school, bigger metro area, closer to New England roots) but I was surprised to see a LL coach go for and get another LL job. Isn't that kind of like the manager of the Yankees leaving to be the manager of the Red Sox or is not a big deal? I would think it's tough to coach kids you competed against last year and then coach against kids you recruited the past few years. Sensitive situation but I guess everyone involved just tries to stay professional about it. Still, I gotta think there are some hard feelings at Clarkson particularly leaving them without a HBC less than 2 months before the season starts.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: NJBalla35 on September 06, 2014, 11:22:15 AM
Looks like HoopDirt.com has the four finalists for Clarkson:  http://hoopdirt.com/blog/749dc505/empire-state-dirt/

Apparently they want a young assistant judging by the candidates.

Any thoughts???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Upstate Hoops Dad on September 06, 2014, 04:07:35 PM
Looks like it will be the first HC job for one of these guys. Got to know Jeff Juron at U of R -- he is from Saratoga, NY area and a very sharp guy so Clarkson would be a good spot for him to start a HC career. Hauser might have an edge as a former Clarkson assistant under Gilbride. Lots of coaching changes in upstate NY this year between Alfred, Hobart, RPI and Clarkson but it opens up a bunch of spots and assistants need that to get a shot at HC jobs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ethelred the Unready on September 07, 2014, 11:23:30 AM
Quote from: Upstate Hoops Dad on September 06, 2014, 04:07:35 PM
Looks like it will be the first HC job for one of these guys. Got to know Jeff Juron at U of R -- he is from Saratoga, NY area and a very sharp guy so Clarkson would be a good spot for him to start a HC career. Hauser might have an edge as a former Clarkson assistant under Gilbride. Lots of coaching changes in upstate NY this year between Alfred, Hobart, RPI and Clarkson but it opens up a bunch of spots and assistants need that to get a shot at HC jobs.

Jeff was a senior my son's freshman year at UR.  Great guy from a solid basketball family
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Upstate Hoops Dad on October 06, 2014, 06:32:37 PM
Any pre-season scouting reports from the vets that usually follow the LL?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on October 28, 2014, 04:50:15 PM
Quote from: Upstate Hoops Dad on October 06, 2014, 06:32:37 PM
Any pre-season scouting reports from the vets that usually follow the LL?

Here is my Liberty League Pre-Season Rankings....tough to forecast as there is some serious parity this year which should make for some very exciting games, especially down the stretch:

1. Vassar - After last years out of nowhere 2nd place finish, have to assume they are the favorites considering they brought everybody back. They have a bunch of quality seniors and juniors to go along with several freshman. It should be noted that scoring leader and all-conference first team selection Johnny Mrlik is coming off another knee surgery that will keep him out of first semester games but word is he will be ready to go come conference play. They are really excited about freshman Tony Caletti, unfortunately he plays the same position as 2013-2014 all-liberty league honorable mention PG Erickson Wasyl. Sophomore Elijah Winston (top recruit from last season) will be making his comeback after sitting out all of last year due to a pre-season torn ACL.

2. RIT - Rapidly improving team that just missed the playoffs last year. With Clarkson, Hobart & Skidmore declining, they seem like a natural selection for #2. Bringing back good talent in rising juniors JP Reagan and Kamron Davis.  Rising sophomore Sheldon Clay will be looking to contribute more this season and freshman Jesse Warech will provide some much needed toughness right away.

3. Skidmore - The loss of guard Tanner Brooks really hurts (he transferred to St. Marys in Maryland).  That being said, they still have a ton of talent with Medunjanin, Merrill, Sanders and Kovacevic. All 4 are all-conference level players. Skidmore is the only team that can say they have that many. Unfortunately, the rest of the team lacks experience and Skidmore's reliance on these 4 results in heavy minutes and poor defense. I have not heard much about their incoming class so depending on if they have another impact player coming in they could jump ahead of RIT. Hard to see them finishing ahead of Vassar however.

4. Hobart - This spot was tough. This could be basically any other team in the league here. I'll give it to Hobart because they have players who have "been there". Losing Bonney, Gibbons and Coach Neer definitely hurts and brings them down at least 2 levels. Rehbaum & Blanding will have to step up if they want to keep winning and there is no real reason to think they wont. The rest of the team is very average however. They will definitely be counting on alot of unproven guys.

5. Clarkson - I have them missing the playoffs because of big reasons: They lost Coach Gilbride who was the best coach in the conference  and a very thin team got even thinner with the loss of all conference PG Marques Charlton. Obvioiusly, Abongo and Coleman are 2 of the best players in the conference but they will be relying on a bunch of young guys with a new coach and that unfortunately most likely means no playoffs for them.

6. Union - Great young talent. Hython, Burgess, Weckworth and Firlotte were all freshman and sophomores last year and they all have all-conference potential. Combined with a slew of solid role players and a decent incoming freshman should give them a shot at that #4 spot. The lack of a true big hurt them last year so they will have trouble with teams like Vassar, RIT and Skidmore.

7.  St. Lawrence - Good young core with sophomores Edwards, Kobis and Miller to go along with former all-conference player Brady Condlin. They have 8 freshman on their rosters but I don't know much about any of them. Depending on the level of those guys they could go up or down on this list. Again, spots 4-9 are very interchangeable this year.

8. Bard - A very strong freshman class should get them out of the cellar this year. They will be returning all-rookie team guard Fabean-Scotch as well as strong big man Burnette. Injuries to their bigs derailed their season last year.

9. RPI - While Coach Gilbride performed miracles with Clarkson in the past, I don't think even his magic can get RPI into the playoffs this year. Beyond Tyler Gendron, I'm not sure they have another player who would start on any other team. They will be adding freshman guard Asa Barnhill this year who is very solid but I'm just not sure there is enough fire power here. It will be interesting to see what these guys can do while not running "The System".
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on November 13, 2014, 02:20:57 PM
 :)- Some very impressive observations on this year's Liberty League outlook so thank you, LibertyLeague Guru! Agree that the loss of Tanner Brooks is a big loss for Skidmore but they are a well coached team and should adapt. One thing missing is whether there will be a shooter like Brooks to bring the defenses outside and free up the big men down low. Hopefully Vassar's Mrlik will make a full recovery from his surgery as he is another top LL talent. A few other observations - appears to be a lot of parity this year and some of the teams have very difficult non-league schedules - Union is one example. League also appears to be cornering the market on top young coaching talent. Very impressed with coaches including Burke - Skidmore, Gilbride - now RPI, Murphy - Union, Sweeney - Hobart. Experience is an important commodity in D-III so look for the senior laden teams to be up near the top come tournament time. Good luck to all this season!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2014, 02:36:11 PM
Quote from: ucaafan on November 13, 2014, 02:20:57 PM
:)- Some very impressive observations on this year's Liberty League outlook so thank you, LibertyLeague Guru! Agree that the loss of Tanner Brooks is a big loss for Skidmore but they are a well coached team and should adapt. One thing missing is whether there will be a shooter like Brooks to bring the defenses outside and free up the big men down low. Hopefully Vassar's Mrlik will make a full recovery from his surgery as he is another top LL talent. A few other observations - appears to be a lot of parity this year and some of the teams have very difficult non-league schedules - Union is one example. League also appears to be cornering the market on top young coaching talent. Very impressed with coaches including Burke - Skidmore, Gilbride - now RPI, Murphy - Union, Sweeney - Hobart. Experience is an important commodity in D-III so look for the senior laden teams to be up near the top come tournament time. Good luck to all this season!

That is a throwback name there! Glad you are still around. :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on November 13, 2014, 04:52:13 PM
Too good a site to stay away from. Keep up the great work! :D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on November 17, 2014, 10:32:03 AM
Two surprises over the weekend in the Liberty League.  Vassar loses to Springfield in the finals of the Vassar tournament. While losing to a good Springfield team was not the biggest of upsets, losing by 30+ points at home was not expected. The bigger surprise was Union College winning the NYU tournament over the host Violets with a last second bucket. NYU had won their last five tournaments and was expecting a sixth until Union came through at the end. NYU is ranked second in the UAA conference preseason poll, arguably one of the three toughest conferences in D-III.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on November 17, 2014, 03:48:07 PM
Very surprising indeed. Union can be a matchup nightmare for some teams as they play no traditional big guys and everyone can handle the ball. Hython and Burgess are a tough duo to guard.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on November 18, 2014, 12:05:56 PM
RIT with 2 nice wins in Philly to start the season. I really believe they will be able to contend in the LL along with Vassar. Vassar loses to Springfield by a huge margin in Vassar tip off tournament. Springfield is very good yearly so I wouldn't be worried about Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on November 18, 2014, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: dcahill44 on November 18, 2014, 12:05:56 PM
RIT with 2 nice wins in Philly to start the season. I really believe they will be able to contend in the LL along with Vassar. Vassar loses to Springfield by a huge margin in Vassar tip off tournament. Springfield is very good yearly so I wouldn't be worried about Vassar.

Yeah, 2 good wins by RIT and nice job by Bard beating Swarthmore at the same tournament. Concerning Vassar, they are playing without Mrlik all first semester so it will be interesting to see how they come back tonight against New Paltz after a beat down like that. Without Mrlik, their biggest problems are that they have virtually no versatility and small guards.

Clarkson is looking good as well after 2 quality opening wins. Morrisville was really tough last year so losing to Clarkson by 20 was probably a little surprising for them.

RPI looking better than expected hanging tough against WPI and beating an athletic Berkeley team who they lost to by about 30 last year.

All in all, a great opening weekend for the Liberty League going 10-3.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 18, 2014, 03:42:11 PM
LibertyLeagueGuru,

What's the story with Mrlik? Why is he out for the 1st semester? That will hurt them quite a bit.

dcahill,
Losing to anybody by an 82-44 score is something to worry about unless they are a D1 team. Springfield is usually a decent team but Vassar getting creamed by 38 points at home is troubling.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on November 18, 2014, 04:06:17 PM
Magicman,

Not sure exactly. I just know he is out for all of first semester. He has had a history of injuries, he was out his entire second year at Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on November 18, 2014, 06:40:17 PM
According to Vassar baseball notes where Mrlik pitches is this note - pitched the final two innings against Waynesburg in the opening game of the season, allowing two hits and striking out three as he picked up the save in a 4-2 win...had to have season-ending knee surgery a week later, ending his second season with the Brewer baseball team...should return in 2015 to help anchor a strong pitching staff.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 18, 2014, 06:54:46 PM
Thanks for the replies LLG and ucaafan. I though it might be something like knee surgery but didn't want to speculate. The baseball note pretty much says it all though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on November 19, 2014, 09:29:11 AM
Another good night for the Liberty League, going 3-0 last night against 3 very solid teams. Especially impressed with Hobart's big win on the road at Ithaca. Liberty League is now 13-3 against non-conference opponents.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on November 24, 2014, 03:49:40 PM
Thoughts from this past weekend:

Clarkson is looking impressive as they have been steam rolling everyone they play. Granted, they aren't playing the toughest competition but they look as they haven't lost a beat with new coach Jeff Gorski.

St. Lawrence playing two very close games with elite SUNYAC teams is also impressive. Especially considering they were playing without Kyle Edwards and were starting 3 freshman.

RIT goes undefeated for the weekend again beating SUNY Maritime and D'Youville. RIT is undefeated this season and is showing some real depth in their scoring balance. Freshman PG AJ Horde seems to be a difference maker for them.

Skidmore loses a heartbreaker to Babson in overtime. I checked out the video and it seems like the rebounding foul called at the end of the game was bogus and the awkward ending was just unfortunate for Skidmore. The game has to be taken as a positive for Skidmore though given that Babson is currently ranked #23 in the country.

Bard loses an away game at Lehman by 9. Lehman is a tough team with a lot of athleticism who already have some great wins early on in the season.

Finally, Vassar loses by 20 to Drew. Seems they are having some serious offensive issues without Mrlik. Looks like they are in for a tough first semester without him. Hopefully his return can turn things around once conference play starts up.

One thing that can definitely be said early on in the season is that there are no bad teams in this conference and Skidmore and RIT seem to be the early favorites.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 25, 2014, 06:54:22 AM
Quote from: LibertyLeagueGuru on November 19, 2014, 09:29:11 AM
Another good night for the Liberty League, going 3-0 last night against 3 very solid teams. Especially impressed with Hobart's big win on the road at Ithaca. Liberty League is now 13-3 against non-conference opponents.

LLG,

Hobart's win over Ithaca isn't really that impressive. The Bombers simply aren't very good and haven't been since the 2012-13 season. They came in 8th place last year in the Empire 8 conference with a 2-12 record and overall mark of 7-18. Ken Massey's ratings has them ranked 295 out of 416 teams. They are projected to wind up with a 6-19 record this year. What will be more impressive is if Hobart can come away with a win tonight when they host Buffalo State. Last year the Statesmen beat the Bengals in Buffalo by an 85-83 score. The Bengals won the matchup in Hobart 2 years ago, 80-74. They also played each other back in 08-09, and 09-10 with each team winning at home. So tonight is the 5th meeting in the past 9 years and will give the winner a leg up in the series. The point spread has Hobart favored by a 7 point margin. I think that the Bengals may sneak out of Bristol Gym with a win tonight though. by a score of something like 82-77. I think Hobart has lost more off their team from last year than the Bengals lost from their team. It should be a good game.

By the way what team in the LL is your favorite? I'm partial to Clarkson and SLU as I went to school at Potsdam State many years ago and saw those teams play numerous games over the years. My current team is my hometown Plattsburgh State Cardinals.

Glad to see you are posting here. For several years I tried to keep this board going but didn't have much help. I'm primarlily on the SUNYAC board but I visit the Empire 8 board and this board quite frequently, as well as other boards all over the country. Plus K for your insights. I'll be by from time to time.

Glad to see ucaafan on board as well. Another plus K to you.
     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 25, 2014, 07:43:32 AM
Plattsburgh State with a knock down, drag em out, overtime win, at Skidmore last night. Final score was 60-57.  I traveled from Plattsburgh down to Saratoga to watch the game (couldn't resist with the temperature 62 degrees at the tail end of November) Got to see plenty of old friends and some new ones as well. Did a summary of the game over on the SUNYAC page. You can go there or click on this link to see it should you so desire: http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=625.5910

LibertyLeagueGuru's analysis of Skidmore in his LL preseason Rankings was pretty much spot on. They have those 4 talented returning starters who are all very good but the team lacks any real depth. Pretty much a 7 player rotation. The coach used more than that tonight but when the 8th and 9th guys were on the floor this team was in trouble. Too bad they lost Tanner Brooks to St. Mary's they sure could use him. He's starting for St. Mary's and averaging a shade over 10 ppg for the Seahawks. Thought that Connor Merrill was the best player that Skidmore had last night. Good from long range or smooth inside with some nice soft bank shots. He should have had more touches. He shot 50%...the rest of the team shot 25%.  One thing LLG didn't mention is the addition of Royce Paris a 6' sophomore guard that transferred to Skidmore from Division I Marist. He was the 1st person off the bench tonight and he played 30 minutes...more than 3 of the starters. Medunjanin was in foul trouble, though and that could be why he played more than the 19 minutes per game he was getting in the prior 3 games. He's very quick and can get to the rim but doesn't appear to be that great a shooter. Plattsburgh has some very quick athletic guards and Medunjanin wasn't used to being guarded as good as he was tonight. Neither was Paris. Between them they only scored 14 points. Still I think they could very well win this league. I've seen Clarkson play in person as they scrimmaged Plattsburgh back on Nov. 7th and I've seen SLU play online and Skidmore is definitly more talented than those 2 clubs. Hobart lost a lot, Vassar without Mrlik is in trouble. And who knows if he will be back next semester. They may just get him a medical redshirt and forget about this year. Especially if his return is pushed back even just a little longer. RIT needs to prove to me that they can beat somebody other than the weaker schools in the East Region. Still not a believer although they have a good coach. Should be a fun year in the LL but I think it will be a one bid league. So if you don't win that automatic bid that comes with the tournament championship you won't be dancing this year.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on November 25, 2014, 12:00:11 PM
Quick note about Royce Paris, he is a transfer from Marist but he was not on the team in any capacity. So it is a little misleading to say they have a transfer from "Division I Marist". He was essentially just another student on campus. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 26, 2014, 02:59:00 AM
Quote from: LibertyLeagueGuru on November 25, 2014, 12:00:11 PM
Quick note about Royce Paris, he is a transfer from Marist but he was not on the team in any capacity. So it is a little misleading to say they have a transfer from "Division I Marist". He was essentially just another student on campus.

Interesting about Paris. I was courtside Monday night and several partisans from Skidmore said he was on the team at Marist but didn't get much playing time. hence the transfer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 26, 2014, 07:34:16 AM
Good night for the Liberty League on Tuesday.

Hobart defeats Buffalo State 56-46

Clarkson downs Oswego State 60-54

Union beats Hartwick 88-70

Three good wins there for the Liberty League that will help the League's SOS.

A win that was expected:  RIT defeats Keuka by a 69-47 score.

A loss that was expected: Bard falls to Hamilton by a 60-54 score.

A game that is surprising because of the margin of victory: Vassar is crushed by Western Connecticut  92-51.

A loss that hurts: RPI falls to Sage by a score of 77-65
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on November 26, 2014, 11:14:47 AM
VERY good night for the Liberty League. Hobart seems to have not lost a beat even when losing the conference player of the year, the conference defensive player of the year and a hall of fame coach. Clarkson has absolutely shocked me with their results so far. Same goes for Union. RIT keeps beating up on mediocre competition and Vassar loses big again. RPI losing to Sage was somewhat predictable.

I watched a little bit of the Bard-Hamilton game last night as I wanted to check out freshman Devahnte Mosley. Even though he struggled offensively, he is very very good. Great passer, great rebounder and great one on one scorer. If Bard had made a couple more open shots they would have beat Hamilton. Bard destroyed them on the glass grabbing 16 offensive rebounds to Hamilton's 4. The guards just could not hit a shot all game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on November 28, 2014, 05:19:42 PM
Following up on LLG's observations, I offer a few of my own. Although early in the season, I still expect Skidmore to finish near the top along with Hobart. Skidmore's two losses were to tough competition and by a total of four points. Agree that Clarkson is a real surprise with the new coach coming in just prior to the start of the season. Massey ratings have three Liberty League teams in the top 100 with Hobart 51, Clarkson 57 and Union, another surprise, at 99. They also have the LL rated 16th in conference ranks moving up from 25. But as always, it will take until the league season begins before we can get a true handle on relative team strengths as some of the teams schedule tougher non-league games than others. For example, Union's next six non-league contests have a combined record of 22-3 and two of those losses were recorded by Williams which finished second in D-III last year. Overall the Liberty League looks quite competitive this year and should be a fun season to observe.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on December 12, 2014, 12:47:42 AM
Well Hell's Bell's - I'd better start posting again or Magicman will be left to keep this thing going and be as mad as a wet hen!!  One man on a mission to save this board from extinction!!  Although LL Guru seems to have some good thoughts & UCaa fan helps out too!  Miss going North to those games Magicman - bigtime!!  Number 1 son (you know who) is getting married in January and I'm pretty excited. Also excited about (although somewhat removed from) the Knights start.  Heartbreaker in OT to Elmira but other than that a solid start with a couple of decent wins. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 12, 2014, 05:21:58 AM
Quote from: with age came? on December 12, 2014, 12:47:42 AM
Well Hell's Bell's - I'd better start posting again or Magicman will be left to keep this thing going and be as mad as a wet hen!!  One man on a mission to save this board from extinction!!  Although LL Guru seems to have some good thoughts & UCaa fan helps out too!  Miss going North to those games Magicman - bigtime!!  Number 1 son (you know who) is getting married in January and I'm pretty excited. Also excited about (although somewhat removed from) the Knights start.  Heartbreaker in OT to Elmira but other than that a solid start with a couple of decent wins.

I wasn't sure if you were going to make an appearance this year or not. Every year removed from #1 son's playing days means less and less time spent here on the LL board. Nice to see you stop by. Don't be such a stranger and you can visit the SUNYAC board as well once in a while. ;D

Clarkson did get off to a nice start but the SOS was rather weak. Losing to Elmira, usually a lower level E8 team (although they did make some progress last year) put a halt to the Golden Knights' chances of getting any love in the Top 25 poll. St. Lawrence beat Elmira on the road 72-52, the day after Elmira beat Clarkson in Potsdam. So what does that say about the two neighboring rivals. (I smell a series split this year) :o   

I saw Clarkson play in early November when they came to Plattsburgh and scrimmaged the Cardinals. Plattsburgh won going away in the 2nd half. John Coleman and Felix Abongo are both excellent players. Coleman will be an All Region player this year and may be the Liberty League Player of the Year.

Skidmore is my pick to win this League. They have 3 losses to 3 very good teams and all of them could have been wins with a little luck. The recent loss on the road to Middlebury was one that I still find hard to believe. They handed that game to the Panthers on a silver platter. I watched the game online and there is no way they should have lost, with the lead they had, and the little amount of time left in the game.

SLU taking on Potsdam on Friday. Saints with a 4-3 record are 3-0 against the Empire 8 conference but already 0-3 against the YAC. They would be in 1st place in the E8 and would be in last place in our conference. Go figure. ??? Saints still playing without last year's LL Rookie of the Year, Kyle Edwards.

I think they will have a Deja Vu moment today however, as they came into the Potsdam game last year with an 0-3 record against the same 3 SUNYAC teams that have beaten them this year. They beat Potsdam 69-67 in Canton. Today the game is in Potsdam but I think the Saints, like last year will get their first win against the YAC to end up with a 1-3 SUNYAC record and escape our basement. It should be another close game but the Saints will prevail by a 72-67 score or something like that.

Over here in Plattsburgh we're hoping that the new Clarkson coach will once again put the Cardinals back on their schedule as Adam Stockwell always did. Crazy for the 2 schools not to meet every year when they are only 90 minutes apart.

Glad to hear of your son's impending marriage. I hope he chose wisely and got plenty of advice from the old man.
After all... with age came.....? ;) Plus K my friend.         
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on December 14, 2014, 07:53:38 PM
Impressed with the start Union has had. Beating U of R is always a good win. Interested to see what happens in this league once conference play gets into gear.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on December 30, 2014, 06:50:26 PM
Pleasure seeing the Statesmen down here in FL and meeting Coach Sweeney.

Bummer Hobart couldn't close the door on UWEC. They had several opportunities at the line and elsewhere and just couldn't make the easy baskets.

Seems like a tight knit group of kids and I'm sure they'll learn from this experience down here as they go into league play. This team could be 7-1 if they locked in. Will be curious to see how they fare in LL play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on January 02, 2015, 02:06:35 PM
Excited for tonights tip off of Liberty League Play!! Here are my predictions for tonight:

Union Over Vassar 73-58

St. Lawrence over RPI 65-60

Skidmore over RIT 84-76
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 04, 2015, 10:48:54 AM
Skidmore with the worst overall record of almost every other LL team (only Vassar and RPI with worse records), yet the Thoroughbreds are alone at the top of the conference standings after the first weekend of play. And that 2-0 mark should turn into 4-0 after next weekend's action, making their claim to sole possession of the top spot at least a 3 week affair.

Skidmore, with a few breaks, could just as easily be 8-2 instead of 5-5. They have 3 losses by a total of 5 combined points. They have played the strongest non-conference schedule of all the LL teams which will only benefit them when it gets down to crunch time. Their SOS is currently rated as the 61st toughest schedule out of the 400+ teams in D3. By comparison 6 of the teams in the Liberty League have a strength of schedule rated as follows....206, 290, 308, 335, 379, and 405. Even if you end up with a gaudy overall record, if you don't win the conference's automatic bid, you won't receive an at large bid with an SOS as high as those 6 numbers.

You need to look no further than Union's 2012-13 season...20-6 record, poor SOS,  Plattsburgh State, 19-8 record, one of the strongest SOS's in the East Region. The Cardinals got the at large bid out of the East Region that year. It's hard to be more than a one bid league if the teams in the league don't play a stronger schedule. The non-conference portion of a team's schedule is the only area where there is some leeway and more schools need to upgrade the competition they face in those games.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on January 04, 2015, 06:24:03 PM
Agree with you completely on strength of schedule value. Seems like certain teams load up on less competitive programs during the non-league portion of their schedule (kind of like vanity plates) while those teams that look for the tougher teams to play are better prepared once their league season begins. I felt that Skidmore and Union had two of the most challenging non-league skeds this year and a look at their SOS and you have Skidmore at 61 and Union at 70. Be interesting to see how the records compare come playoff time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 06, 2015, 10:16:19 PM
Well I guess that now that I am the Dad to a married man (yes magic - it happened Saturday) I'll have a little more time to peruse the d-3 schedules.  Anxious to see how Clarkson comes out of the gate after their long lay off...An amazing thing occurred the other day I wrote "Go Continentals" in an e-mail when they (Hamilton) played D'Youville?  Being such a die hard Golden Knights fan I was amazed that I did that but have too many fond memories of Coach Stockwell not to root for him!!  They did edge Hobart at the Statesmen's place which is hard to do.  Looks like Jeremy's little bro is starting to make his own name?? But I think that everyone will agree the LL is not the bear of the league that Hamilton plays in!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on January 08, 2015, 02:04:34 PM
It makes sense for teams that are trying to make a case for an at large bid to play a difficult schedule. Looking at the conference though, it seems only 2 teams really came in with that as a realistic expectation (Skidmore & Vassar). If you think you are going to be having an average or down year, doesn't it make sense to play an easy out of conference schedule?

Observations from the first few games:
Skidmore - Flexed it's muscles in the first weekend sweeping RIT & Vassar. Early on, it seems they are the team to beat and the overwhelming favorite to win the conference. The fact that they swept the weekend without their starting center makes it all the more impressive.

Union - Disappointing first game losing to Vassar at home. But nice bounce back win destroying St. Lawrence. It seems their lack of size was a huge factor vs. Vassar. Could be something to watch for when they go against the bigger Liberty League teams. Then again, they beat NYU who is gigantic.

Vassar - Great first win against Union and went toe to toe with Skidmore. Seemed like they were back and on their way to the a top playoff seed and then they lost to Bard..... It is difficult to gauge exactly how good this team is as they had a disappointing first semester and a great first weekend. Johnny Mrlik is still out, so when he comes back that could really stabilize them as they seem to be inconsistent right now. 

RIT - Expected results from the first weekend beating RPI and losing to Skidmore. Really enjoy watching their freshman point guard, plays with alot of energy and intensity. A bit wild however but undeniably dangerous.

St. Lawrence - Starting 2 freshman and 2 sophomores means they will be inconsistent and will get better as the year goes along. Nice win on the road vs. RPI but obviously losing by 25 to Union wasn't ideal.

RPI - Seems like they have depth issues. They lost Cardenas from last year who was a huge contributor and that really hurt them. Coach Gilbride will have some recruiting to do.

Bard - Defeating Vassar in their first conference game on the road probably opened some eyes around the conference, considering they were picked to be last in the conference and Vassar was selected first. We will see if that was a fluke this weekend as they have a challenging Skidmore/Union back to back on the road.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 21, 2015, 11:25:54 PM
Of course Clarkson seems to be doing alright?  Only league loss is to Skidmore (who is the class of the league it appears).  Think that the Golden Knights are definitely a playoff team barring a disaster (ie: Coleman not being able to play).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on January 22, 2015, 04:48:05 PM
Yes, I thought Clarkson would be decent this year but I am very surprised that they stand 4-1 at this point. They should push their record to 6-1 after this weekend. They assist on over 70% of their field goals which is an amazing stat. Clarkson & Bard are definitely the surprises of the league. Vassar & Union have to be disappointed at this point with their performances. Everyone else kind of is where they were expected to be.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 30, 2015, 01:00:08 AM
No two ways about it Union has been a puzzlement - how a team can have a win over a top 25 team (NYU) and suffer some of the losses they have is amazing.  See that Hobart did Clarkeson and the rest of the League a favor by showing that Skidmore can be beaten.  Still think they will win the League but now Clarkson has a chance to control its our destiny if it runs the table... :D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on February 04, 2015, 10:16:20 AM
Interesting playoff race developing as we get to the final stretch here in February. Hobart, Skidmore and Clarkson are fighting it out for the top 3 seeds with Skidmore having games remaining against both Hobart & Clarkson. RIT, St. Lawrence & Bard are in a tight battle for that last playoff spot with Bard having the ability to control their own destiny with games against both St. Lawrence & RIT remaining. Bard is the only team of the 3 to have a win against any of the top 3 seeds so I believe that gives them the tie breaker against both if they split the season series with both. If I am wrong there, let me know!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 05, 2015, 04:25:36 PM
Liberty League getting interesting, especially with head to head game between Skidmore and Hobart this weekend. Hobart coach has done well in his first year as coach after losing some key players last year. The LL tournament  should be very competitive .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on February 10, 2015, 12:16:55 AM
Quote from: Bartman on February 05, 2015, 04:25:36 PM
Liberty League getting interesting, especially with head to head game between Skidmore and Hobart this weekend. Hobart coach has done well in his first year as coach after losing some key players last year. The LL tournament  should be very competitive .

Call me impressed too with the job 1st year Coach Sweeney has done this year. It appears that he has gotten a handle on LL play and his 1st place standing (tied with Clarkson) with 2 week left till tourney time, shows that his Statemens are getting better as the season progresses. No 1 would have predicted that they would have swept Skidmore a month ago. And split with Clarkson. And yet here they stand. Clarkson at Skidmore on the final day may determine the LL regular season winner, if only as a tie breaker for regular season Champ.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that they win the LL tourney. My little brother, who is Hobart class of '89, would definitely agree!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 10, 2015, 08:12:51 AM
You have to give Coach Sweeney some LLCOTY consideration. Really only 1 of Hobart's 6 losses was by double digits (the 10 pt loss to Clarkson back on 1/9) so they've been in pretty much all their games this season. If they can come away with some wins in this weekend's road trip downstate, l :ok out!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on February 10, 2015, 08:29:50 AM
All conferences are very interesting. Regional Rankings come out tomorrow and i expect 3 LL teams to be in it. Coach Sweeney has done a great job with his Statesmen. Skidmore, Clarkson, and Hobart are all in the mix for number 1 seed in Liberty League come tournament time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2015, 02:34:42 PM
Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/11/first-regional-rankings-released-today/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/11/first-regional-rankings-released-today/)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 16, 2015, 08:02:48 AM
Tough loss downstate by Hobart against Vassar. Can only hope breaking the win streak focuses team to make a run thru the end of regular season and win the LL tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on February 24, 2015, 11:12:40 AM
Liberty League playoffs are set:

RIT @ Skidmore

Clarkson @ Hobart

Gotta think Skidmore will dispatch RIT with ease as RIT does not have a win against any other playoff team.

Clarkson @ Hobart should be a great matchup, almost too close to call.

Seems like it's Skidmore's year though.

Tough ending for St. Lawrence who just had to win one of their final 3 games to make the playoffs. Ended up blowing a 20 point second half lead in one game and losing in overtime in another. Thats gotta hurt.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 25, 2015, 08:22:08 AM
Quote from: LibertyLeagueGuru on February 24, 2015, 11:12:40 AM
Liberty League playoffs are set:

RIT @ Skidmore

Clarkson @ Hobart

Gotta think Skidmore will dispatch RIT with ease as RIT does not have a win against any other playoff team.

Clarkson @ Hobart should be a great matchup, almost too close to call.

Seems like it's Skidmore's year though.

Tough ending for St. Lawrence who just had to win one of their final 3 games to make the playoffs. Ended up blowing a 20 point second half lead in one game and losing in overtime in another. Thats gotta hurt.

Agree Hobart v. Clarkson should be a good one but not so sure it is Skidmore's year if Hobart beats Clarkson. Skidmore's is 0-2 vs. Statesmen. We will see.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2015, 08:57:33 PM
Clarkson defeats Hobart by a 69-59 final score.

Clarkson scores their final 16 points from the foul line as they hit 16x19 in the final 2:21 as Hobart started the foul parade. The Golden Knights led this one from start to finish as they opened up with a 12-4 advantage. The Statesmen cut it to 3 points on several occasions in the first period, but after Hobart's Connor Rehbaum cut a 9 point Clarkson lead to 6 with a hoop and harm with 1:44 left in the half the Knights came back with a John Coleman layup and a jumper by Drew Zlogar to make it a double digit 30-20 Clarkson lead at the break.

Hobart managed to cut the lead to 3 points at 32-29 early in the 2nd half, but Clarkson's Charles McCallister hit a pair of free throws and then drained a 3 pointer to build the lead back to 37-29 with 16:07 left to play. Hobart never got closer than a 2 possession deficit after that and when Zlogar hit another 3 pointer and Coleman followed with another layup on consecutive opportunities the lead was 12 at 51-39 and only 5 minutes left in the game.
Clarkson was deadly from the line to keep the Statesmen from mounting a comeback.

John Coleman led Clarkson with 14 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists, and 3 steals. Dylan Hodownes had 12 points while Charles McCallister had 10 points, 5 rebounds and 3 assists.

Trey Blanding was the game's high scorer with 24 points. He also had 7 steals, 5 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 blocks. Andrew Hoy had 13 points and Connor Rehbaum had 11 points with 5 rebounds.


Clarkson will now face Skidmore on Saturday for the LL Championship
   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2015, 08:58:39 PM
Skidmore doubling up RIT 40-20 at the half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2015, 09:46:13 PM
Skidmore defeats RIT 72-51.

Clarkson at Skidmore for the Championship
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on February 26, 2015, 08:28:58 AM
Tough shooting night for the Statesmen as Clarkson moves on to face Skidmore for the Liberty League championship in Saratoga.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 26, 2015, 09:45:27 AM
Statesmen used up all their threes against Union last week(17-33 v. 4-25 last night). Bad Hobart shooting night but Clarkson played good Defense and showed grit to keep pushing Statesmen back. Disappointing for Hobart but they exceeded realistic expectations this season with great effort by Seniors all season and admirable first season for Coach Sweeney. Congrats to Clarkson as they will give Skidmore all they can handle. Good luck to both teams in the final.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 27, 2015, 01:58:28 PM
Bummer re Hobart but a good first season for Coach Sweeney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 06, 2015, 04:18:18 PM
East Region Teams in the NCAA Tournament tonight.

Oswego State vs Calvin College  at Mount Union College   5:30 PM

Good luck to the Oswego Lakers in tonight's NCAA game. The oddsmakers have made the Lakers a 5 point underdog against Calvin College. Hope Oswego can pull off the upset.

Skidmore College vs Wesleyan University at Johns Hopkins University  5:30 PM

The Thoroughbreds are a slight 1 point favorite here and even though Wesleyan is the NESCAC champions they were only the 6th seed in their tournament. They got hot at the right time but Skidmore has the talent to play with these guys. Hope the Liberty League representatives can win one for the East Region.

#18 WPI at #20 St. John Fisher   7:30 PM

Glad the Cardinals got a home game here. This game matches up 2 teams that are both ranked in the D3hoops Top 25. The point spread favors the Cardinals by a slim 3 points. Fisher needs a big game from Keegan Ryan and Chaz Lott.

SUNY-Cobleskill at William Paterson   7:30 PM

The Fighting Tigers better sharpen their claws because they will have a tough time against the Pioneers from Willie Pat. The oddsmakers have made the Pioneers an 18 point home favorite. Maybe Cobleskill can take a page out of Morrisville's book and pull off the upset of another New Jersey Athletic Conference team like the Mustangs did last year when they knocked off Richard Stockton in the Sweet 16 and the year before that when they beat host Ramapo in the first round. Sure would like to see the NEAC conference take down an NJAC team for the 3rd year in a row. 

Of interest is that the last 2 times William Paterson made the NCAA tournament they were big favorites in the opening round. In 2009-10 a highly ranked 25-2 Willie Pat team, lost in the 1st round to Albertus Magnus when nobody had ever heard of Albertus Magnus. Two years later they were the NJAC champions of the 2011-12 season and again highly ranked. That William Paterson team was 24-3 and played at home against tiny Becker College (enrollment 1299 students) and Becker beat then by a 69-53 margin in the first round. So...hey you never know.         

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 06, 2015, 06:59:16 PM
Skidmore leads Wesleyan 68-60 with 4:20 left to play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 06, 2015, 07:36:37 PM
The Liberty League Champs prevail over the NESCAC Champs as Skidmore defeats Wesleyan 81-66.

Connor Merrill led all scorers with 28 points. Erik Sanders had 19 points, 5 assists, 3 rebounds and 2 steals.
Aldin Medunjanin had 16 points, 6 rebounds, 5 assists and a steal. Martin Bedulskij had a team high 10 rebounds and 8 points.

Wesleyan was led by Jack Mackey with 15 points,6 rebounds and 5 assists. BJ Davis had 14 points and a game high 11 rebounds, while Rashid Epps also had 11 rebounds and 13 points.

Skidmore will play the winner of the Johns Hopkins/Keene State game tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 08, 2015, 01:10:58 AM
Skidmore drops a close one to Johns Hopkins by a 61-58 final score.

The game featured 6 ties and 15 lead changes as it went back and forth the entire game. Skidmore with a chance to tie it at the buzzer but coudn't get the shot to go down.

Nice season for the Thoroughbreds. Congratulations.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 08, 2015, 01:27:18 AM
Forgive me... but I thought it was appropriate that Skidmore played a couple miles from famed Pimlico. The difference... Thoroughbreds tend to only run once while in Baltimore... not twice in a weekend. LOL

Skidmore had a nice game against Wesleyan (I was on hand) and then played well against Hopkins, who I thought would dominate (watched online). Hats off to Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 16, 2015, 04:19:09 PM
D3hoops has released their All Region Teams. Here's the one from the East Region. No surprises here. Too many good players and never enough awards to go around. I could easily come up with 15 more players that deserve to be mentioned for their achievements both on and off the court. Congratulations to all the players on this list, plus all the players and coaches who didn't make this list, for giving me so many hours of enjoyment through this long cold winter here in the North Country. Next season's first practice is only 213 days away. ;) 


March 16, 2015
D3hoops.com 2015 men's All-East Region team



Players were nominated for these awards by the Sports Information Directors at the various schools.

Player of the Year: Gordon Lyons, Geneseo State
Coach of the Year: Rob Kornaker, St. John Fisher
Rookie of the Year: Ian Helps, F, Fredonia State

First team     
Pos.   Player          School       Yr. Hometown
G Aldin Medunjanin Skidmore Jr. New York, N.Y.
G John Coleman Clarkson Sr. Potsdam, N.Y.
F Keegan Ryan St. John Fisher So. Plattsburgh, N.Y.
F Gordon Lyons Geneseo State Sr. Amherst, N.Y.
F Evan Kupferberg NYU Jr. Boca Raton, Fla.

Second team     
Pos.   Player       School       Yr.    Hometown
G Brian Sortino Oswego State So. Fairport, N.Y.
G Zach Mager Oneonta State Sr. New City, N.Y.
F CJ Dunston Lancaster Bible Jr. Elkton, Md.
F Mitch Ford Nazareth Jr. Victor, N.Y.
F Reggie Williams Plattsburgh State Sr. Yonkers, N.Y.

Third team     
Pos.    Player         School        Yr.     Hometown
G Chris Cartwright Buffalo State Sr. Binghamton, N.Y.
G Trey Gordon Gallaudet Jr. Talladega, Ala.
G Connor Rehbaum Hobart Sr. Cheektowaga, N.Y.
G Chaz Lott St. John Fisher Jr. Wynanskill, N.Y.
F Maurice Mills Nazareth Jr. Utica, N.Y.

Here's a link to the complete list of All Region Teams:

http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2014-15/index

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 19, 2015, 01:14:00 PM
Congratulations to the following players from the East Region who, today, were chosen as All Americans by the National Association of Basketball Coaches.

Gordon Lyons senior forward from Geneseo State who was selected as an NABC 1st Team All American

John Coleman senior forward from Clarkson College who was selected as an NABC 2nd Team All American

Keegan Ryan sophomore forward from St. John Fisher College who was selected as an NABC 3rd Team All American

Here' a link to the complete list of All Americans:

http://static.psbin.com/1/5/jqtd9kjc8xjjmf/NABC_Announces_2015_Coaches-_Division_III_All-America_Teams.pdf
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 02, 2015, 11:07:34 PM
The D3hoops preseason All American Teams have been released. Here are the representatives from the East Region.

St John Fisher's 6' 8" Junior forward/center Keegan Ryan was placed on the 2nd team.

Skidmore's Aldin Medunjanin a 6'4" Senior guard was named to the 4th team.

Evan Kupferberg a 6'6" Senior forward from NYU has also been chosen as a menber of the 4th team.

No one else from the East Region was selected. Here is the complete list:

http://d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/preseason-2016
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 12, 2015, 01:37:37 PM
The preseason poll:
http://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2015/11/12/MBB_1112154814.aspx

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 14, 2015, 05:22:25 AM
I think the top 2 of Skidmore and SLU, are probably correct. Not sure I would have Vassar bringing up the rear. I think they might finish higher than a couple of teams listed in front of them. I watched them play Friday night against New Paltz and they could have won that game with a little luck. They gave up an 11 point lead with 16 minutes left to play when New Paltz went on a 17-2 run. The Brewers were down 68-58 with 5:30 left and ended up losing 70-68 and had a chance to win it with a 3 pointer twice in the final 30 seconds. They could surprise a few teams.

The 3rd through 7th spots are fairly interchangeable and will really depend on how well the teams come together with all the young faces in the League this year. It will be easier to sort out after we can see some non-conference results. A number of games will be played against the SUNYAC conference which is always a good indicator of how well those teams that do play YAC schools will fare in Liberty League competition. Both St Lawrence and Clarkson will play multiple games against SUNYAC schools. Hobart,  Skidmore, and Vassar, will also face off against YAC schools by December 12th. A total of at least 10 games will be played between the 2 conferences. At least 6 of those games will be played against the top teams in the YAC as well.

It was good to see Clarkson toughen up their schedule a bit with the arrival of a new coach. Conversely the former Clarkson coach, now at RPI is doing just the opposite by dropping some of the better schools in favor of some lightweights. Vassar is playing an upgraded non-conference schedule as well and Union is scheduling some decent teams this year with the likes of Williams, Wesleyan, and Rochester on their slate. Hobart, St. Lawrence and RIT continue to have a fairly strong non-conference schedule as usual. Skidmore with games against Middlebury, Plattsburgh State, Wooster, UW-Stout, Ramapo and TCNJ has probably the toughest schedule in the LL and I'm guessing, the strongest one that the Thoroughbreds have ever had. I'm looking forward to the Skidmore-Plattsburgh State game on Nov. 23rd which I plan on attending. It marks the 2nd straight year we've traveled to Skidmore and we have the promise of a return visit next year. I hope that happens.

It should be another interesting year in the Liberty League, SUNYAC and Empire 8 conferences. Hopefully we can get more than the 3 teams from last year into the Big Dance this coming year.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 14, 2015, 01:00:16 PM
Skidmore struggling at home against Ithaca as the Bombers take a 42-35 lead into the break.  The Thoroughbreds preseason All American Aldin Medunjanin only got 7 minutes of court time in the first half as he got 2 quick fouls and went to the bench 4 minutes after the game started. He went back into the game at the 11 minute mark and 3 minutes later picked up his 3rd foul. He spent the remainder of the half on the bench. Bombers have 2 players with 13 and 12 points already. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 15, 2015, 06:25:44 AM
Not a good beginning for a team picked to win the Liberty League, losing to a middle of the pack team from another conference on your home court. In fairness to Skidmore however this is the 3rd straight year they have played the Bombers and all 3 games, regardless of the respective team's records, have been close games. But Skidmore was supposed to win this game on Saturday.  The Thoroughbreds were listed as  a 12 point favorite and they had most of that margin early on as they were up 27-16 halfway through the first period. But a funny thing happened on the way to the half....the Bombers didn't roll over. Instead they fought back and grabbed the lead by outscoring Skidmore by a 26-8 margin over the final 9:32 of the period.

The Bombers kept up the pressure as the 2nd half got under way and began to slowly increase their advantage to 13,then 15, and finally a 17 point margin at 58-41 with 14:09 remaining. Each time the ponies would try to rally the Bombers would have an answer and the lead was back to 17, then 18 and finally reached a game high of 19 points at 71-52 with 8:55 remaining. For Skidmore to be within 1 point of a tie game at 85-84 with 25 ticks left on the clock and then have a chance to tie it with 11 seconds left is a credit to the team's ability to  keep on playing hard. Too bad that 3 pointer by Medunjanin didn't go down  with 11 seconds left. I would have loved to watch bonus basketball.  The final score of 90-84 was only because Skidmore committed 2 fouls in the last 5 seconds.

Medunjanin led the Thoroughbreds with 21 points and 5 assists. As mentioned earlier his court time was limited to just 7 minutes in the first half due to 3 fouls. Royce Paris had 15 points, Edvinas Rupkus had 14 and Erik Sanders added 13 points. Sanders also led the team in rebounds with 11.

Mark Chasin led the Bombers with 22 points and Joey Flanagan had 20.Sam Bevan had 18 points while Peter Ezema had 16 points and 11 boards to lead the Bombers in rebounding.  This game could prove to be valuable experience for Skidmore down the road. I just hope it isn't next Monday Nov.21st when my Cardinals make the trip down the Northway for a visit. It was an overtime game last year and I expect the game to be a thriller again this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on November 17, 2015, 12:47:40 PM
Hobart wins against Keuka 77-63. Union with a surprising win against Hartwick, Hartwick looked like they had the best roster in the league coming into this year. RPI beat a Cobleskill team by 29, RIT lost  to Brooklyn by 23 and Goucher by 16. Not a good start for RIT at Case Western tournament. St Lawrence loses to reigning SUNYAC champion Oswego. St Lawrence looks to be a big contender for the LL. Skidmore loses to Ithaca, but I think they will be fine. Clarkson loses to Morrisville. Not sure what to think about Clarkson for this season. Vassar loses a tight 70-68 game to New Paltz. Not sure what to think about the Brewers this year either.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on November 24, 2015, 10:37:12 PM


Re: MBB: State University of New York Athletic Conference
Quote from d3d3d3 on SUNYAc boards Monday
"Skidmore 94, Plattsburgh 69"


Today....
Buffalo State 98, Hobart 78
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 29, 2015, 01:36:58 PM
Hoopsville returns from the Thanksgiving break with plenty to cover.

The season has certainly started with a lot of stuff. Rule changes, upsets, hot and cold starts, and more. That's why we added more Hoopsville shows to start the season! Tonight, we talk to some who have started hot, those with high expectations, and preview the final Wendy's Classic.

Hoopsville hits the air at 7pm ET tonight!

Guests include:
- Mike Daley, Wendy's Classic Director and former Nazareth men's coach
- Keith Bunkenburg, Benedictine men's coach
- Greg Mitchell, No. 16 Hope men's coach
- Abby Pyzik Smith, Lynchburg women's coach

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com (http://www.d3hoopsville.com)
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville)
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville (http://www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville)
SoundCloud (podcast): www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville (http://www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville)

AND our podcast as been approved for iTunes!!! You should be able to find it... but here is a link, just in case: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087 (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 06, 2015, 05:44:07 AM
Nice win by St. Lawrence on Saturday afternoon as they get a bit of revenge for the Liberty League by defeating Ithaca College 88-78. That helps to offset the win that Ithaca posted over Skidmore on opening weekend.

SLU laid a pair of 44's on the Bombers as they outscored them 44-37 in the 1st half and 44-41 in the 2nd. First half was a back and forth affair until the Saints broke free from a 25 all tie to open up an 11 point lead before settling for the 7 point halftime edge. St. Lawrence again went up by 11 early in the 2nd period but the Bombers hung in there and eventually tied the game up at 57 with 11 minutes left to play. The Saints responded to that with a 14-0 run fueled by 5 points from Riley Naclerio and 4 points from Ben Crawford. The Bombers finally stopped the bleeding with a pair of free throws from Matt Flood to cut the lead to 71-59 with 7:28 left in the game. However, the damage was done and the Bombers could get no closer than 10 points the rest of the way.

SLU's Crawford had 25 points and 11 boards for a double-double that claimed game honors in both categories. Kyle Edwards had 23 points and 6 assists while Naclerio tossed in 19 points and grabbed 5 boards. Kyle Kobis added 8 points, 5 assists and 5 rebounds.

Ithaca was led by their entire starting five, as they all reached double figures. Sam Bevan had 20 points and Joey Flanagan had 19. The problem was the Ithaca bench or lack thereof, as they only managed 2 points from the reserves. The Saints managed to scrape together 12 points from their bench. 12 SLU bench points minus 2 Bomber bench points equals a +10 bench points for the Saints....the margin of victory. ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 06, 2015, 06:56:35 PM
Teams are finally settling into the season, but that doesn't mean things have gotten easier. Tonight on Hoopsville, Dave returns from the Wendy's Classic where he talked to those who helped wrap up the historic tournament. He also chats with those showing heir strength early in the campaign and pulling off upsets.

Hoopsville hits the air at 7PM ET! www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/dec6 (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/dec6)

Guests include (in order):

- Guy Kalland, Carleton men's coach
- Bob Quillman, Central Region Reporter
- Jimmy Smith, Texas Lutheran men's coach
- Anthony Ewing, No. 10 Univ. of New England women's coach
- Scott Hemer, SUNY Geneseo women's coach
- Luke Flockerzi, Rochester men's coach
- J.C. DeLass, East Region Reporter

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com (http://www.d3hoopsville.com)
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville)
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville (http://www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville)
SoundCloud (podcast): www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville (http://www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville)

AND our podcast as been approved for iTunes!!! You should be able to find it... but here is a link, just in case: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087 (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on December 17, 2015, 10:54:38 AM
Ithaca makes it official: Bombers are joining the Liberty League ...
http://athletics.ithaca.edu/news/2015/12/17/BB_1217151424.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on December 24, 2015, 03:01:10 AM
Always thought that Ithaca would be a good LL fit...Miss Hamilton being in there but you can't blame for bolting for the league that they did?  But I'll let Magicman tell me what my real opinion is!!??   ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 24, 2015, 03:09:43 AM
Quote from: with age came? on December 24, 2015, 03:01:10 AM
Always thought that Ithaca would be a good LL fit...Miss Hamilton being in there but you can't blame for bolting for the league that they did?  But I'll let Magicman tell me what my real opinion is!!??   ;D

I never try and tell a guy from Beaver River what his opinion is. ??? I agree that Ithaca is a good fit. Now with 10 teams the LL can play a double round robin like the SUNYAC and have 18 league games and 7 non-conference games to make up their 25 game schedule.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 02, 2016, 05:59:03 PM
Skidmore and Hobart will both be 0-1 in the LL when they play Sunday. Bard beat Skidmore, RPI beat Hobart today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on January 03, 2016, 03:47:31 PM
Quote from: with age came? on December 24, 2015, 03:01:10 AM
Always thought that Ithaca would be a good LL fit...Miss Hamilton being in there but you can't blame for bolting for the league that they did?  But I'll let Magicman tell me what my real opinion is!!??   ;D

I don't know how I missed this 1!!!  You definitely know the magicman !!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 04, 2016, 09:15:46 PM
Time to heat up this board again like the Buffalo weather where we don't get snow anymore in November and December! ;D    Go Knights!!  And where did this Bard stuff come from???  Magic please tell me??? lol
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 04, 2016, 09:34:16 PM
P.S. I went to Beaver River but I was from Beaver Falls... ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 05, 2016, 12:57:22 AM
Quote from: with age came? on January 04, 2016, 09:15:46 PM
Time to heat up this board again like the Buffalo weather where we don't get snow anymore in November and December! ;D    Go Knights!!  And where did this Bard stuff come from???  Magic please tell me??? lol

Bard defeats Skidmore in a big upset. No Aldan Medunjanin for Skidmore is certainly not helping. Came back finally for the 2 games out in Vegas but got hurt again in the 1st game back against Ramapo and only played 15 minutes. Has not suited up since then.
You take away your All American point guard and you will feel the pain. The Thoroughbreds need to regroup because they still have enough talent to win the LL without him. I'm hopeful he will be back, in the not to distant future. Why do I care, you ask? Because I drafted him in the 8th and final round  with my last pick in the NCAA Futures Fantasy League. Everybody stayed away because they knew nothing about his injury. I was there when he went down back in November and felt sure he would return, He did, but now is injured again.

Bard has been slowly improving and is no longer the guaranteed win that they used to be. They come to play and will continue to get better. Several decent recruiting classes in the last few years because if they wanted to be more than a bottom feeder in the Liberty League they needed to land some good recruits. Top 4 scorers on the team are either sophomores or freshmen. They have a rotation of 8 players (it was 9 but appear to have lost a decent freshman, I think, over the holidays) and only 1 of them is a senior.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 05, 2016, 09:40:12 AM
The fact that Bard won two LL games on the road last weekend just tells you where the LL is right now. The days of Richie Bonnie, John Coleman ... and now Aldin Medunjanin ... are over until the next great players step forward. So every team in the league looks young, and with Aldin out, every team has hope. Skidmore coach Burke said in an interview that he's certain Aldin's career "isn't over," but that makes you think he's going to be out for quite a while. If he is, the LL is the Wild, Wild West this winter and it's up for grabs. No teams are great, nobody stinks, and maybe everyone will go 8-8.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 07, 2016, 08:51:24 PM
I love it!!! Everybody at 8 and 8 would one interesting tie breaker scenario??? ;D  Reminds me of the .500 Knights beating the Saints and the Hamilton Conts to go to the dance.....oh what lovely memories....back in the day  ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on January 08, 2016, 11:21:54 AM
Quote from: with age came? on January 07, 2016, 08:51:24 PM
I love it!!! Everybody at 8 and 8 would one interesting tie breaker scenario??? ;D  Reminds me of the .500 Knights beating the Saints and the Hamilton Conts to go to the dance.....oh what lovely memories....back in the day  ;)

Sounds like you were at that game?? ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 08, 2016, 10:54:31 PM
Skidmore just lost another home game in-conference, this time to RIT. I'm not sure these are upsets any more.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on January 14, 2016, 09:39:14 AM
Interesting conference season so far. I thought Hobart would have some better results considering they were pretty decent out of conference. Interested to see how they will do this weekend in North Country. Definitely seems like every game is going to be a dog fight this year, no team in the league is great but every team is pretty good.

AJ Horde of RIT seems to be the favorite for conference player of the year right now leading RIT to a 3-0 record while putting up some serious numbers (47 points against Union on Tuesday!).

Also was surprised to see Clarkson beat St. Lawrence on Tuesday. It's almost impossible to predict who will be in the playoffs this year. RPI was very good out of conference this year and looked like a solid pick but they are obviously struggling right now.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 15, 2016, 12:21:09 AM
Could not agree more..everybody is going to go 8 and 8 and let the tie breakers begin???haha ;D  Way to go Knights  - nothing better than beating St Lawrence!!  Biggest shock to me is Skids hitting the "skids" a little??  Thought they would be the one to beat but the season is young??  Shock 1a  -  Bard - nobody is kicking sand in their face anymore!!??

P.S. Hey Bengals- you know dam (misspelled on porpoise) well I was there and it may have been the "purest athletic high" of my life when the Knights beat Hamilton to go to the "dance" for their only time.... ;)  Still watch that game on a DVD copy...proud parent thing!! :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on January 15, 2016, 11:03:45 AM
Quote from: with age came? on January 15, 2016, 12:21:09 AM
Could not agree more..everybody is going to go 8 and 8 and let the tie breakers begin???haha ;D  Way to go Knights  - nothing better than beating St Lawrence!!  Biggest shock to me is Skids hitting the "skids" a little??  Thought they would be the one to beat but the season is young??  Shock 1a  -  Bard - nobody is kicking sand in their face anymore!!??

P.S. Hey Bengals- you know dam (misspelled on porpoise) well I was there and it may have been the "purest athletic high" of my life when the Knights beat Hamilton to go to the "dance" for their only time.... ;)  Still watch that game on a DVD copy...proud parent thing!! :)

I can feel the pride through your post. Damn typo's......I gotta stop posting on my phone, while driving in snowstorms..at night!! ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 15, 2016, 10:18:02 PM
This 8-8 thing could actually come true. Vassar beat Skidmore. Union beat Bard. Clarkson beat RIT. Hobart beat St. Lawrence. Everyone has at least one league win and one league loss. It's madness. And mediocrity.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 16, 2016, 07:15:22 PM
Liberty League standings, through three weeks:

St. Lawrence 3-2
RIT 3-2
Clarkson 4-3
Union 4-3
Skidmore 3-3
Bard 3-3
Hobart 2-2
Vassar 2-3
RPI 1-4
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 18, 2016, 01:20:49 AM
Damn RPI is screwing up the whole 8 and 8 thing!!? ::)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: AUPepBand on January 18, 2016, 09:32:20 AM
Quote from: Bengalsrule on January 15, 2016, 11:03:45 AM
Quote from: with age came? on January 15, 2016, 12:21:09 AM
Could not agree more..everybody is going to go 8 and 8 and let the tie breakers begin???haha ;D  Way to go Knights  - nothing better than beating St Lawrence!!  Biggest shock to me is Skids hitting the "skids" a little??  Thought they would be the one to beat but the season is young??  Shock 1a  -  Bard - nobody is kicking sand in their face anymore!!??

P.S. Hey Bengals- you know dam (misspelled on porpoise) well I was there and it may have been the "purest athletic high" of my life when the Knights beat Hamilton to go to the "dance" for their only time.... ;)  Still watch that game on a DVD copy...proud parent thing!! :)

I can feel the pride through your post. Damn typo's......I gotta stop posting on my phone, while driving in snowstorms..at night!! ;)

Bengalsrule, you know darn well that you'll never let those incidental distractions (or that stupid no texting while driving law) disrupt you from posting. You were born for the boards!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 19, 2016, 05:23:03 PM
AU Pep if I knew how to give out karma I'd do it for that last post!!!  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: AUPepBand on January 19, 2016, 06:49:09 PM
Quote from: with age came? on January 19, 2016, 05:23:03 PM
AU Pep if I knew how to give out karma I'd do it for that last post!!!  ;) ;) ;)

Haha....stick around and keep posting. Once you get past being a "starter," Sir Pat will grant you a magic wand with which you can grant karma (or smite) anyone you please. Meantime, here' some +K for ya.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 19, 2016, 08:56:13 PM
Cool!!!  I wonder if Sir Pat would combine my posts from my previous life as With Age Comes?  (forgot the pass word for that one and had to create a new self??)  At least now I have a new goal in life??!!  More posts!! lol ::)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on January 20, 2016, 10:55:36 AM
Liberty League is completely up for grabs with RIT winning it right now. I think St Lawrence and Skidmore will surpass RIT in the ladder part of conference play and i think Hobart is way better than what there record says, they have struggled but i think they will rally to make the top 4 of the conference tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 21, 2016, 05:48:59 PM
It isn't easy to coach at any level. It is a joy to coach Division III says many a coach. Some enjoy it on their way up the ladder, others on their way closer to retirement, and others as their passion.

Tonight on Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) we talk to many coaches in different aspects of their careers with varying teams who are succeeding on the court and off of it because of what coaching has taught them including facing the challenges no one should face especially off the court.

Hoopsville hits the air tonight at 7:00 pm ET with a jam packed show. Talking to programs who are leading their conferences or in the hunt facing the challenge that not everyone expect them to be competitive. We also talk to a few coaches who are taking care of more than Xs and Os. They are taking care of their team after a horrific circumstance of a player's murder or looking out of their own battling cancer.

You can watch the show starting at 7pm ET tonight right here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/jan21 (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/jan21)

Guests include (in order):
- Scott Hemer, SUNY Geneseo women's coach
- Chris Downs, St. Lawrence men's coach
- Dan Priest, Kenyon men's coach (NABC Coach's Corner)
- Guy Rancourt, Lycoming men's coach
- Amanda Bailey, Luther women's coach
- Jacquie Hullah, Carngie Mellon women's coach

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville (http://www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville)
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087 (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087)

And don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com (http://www.d3hoopsville.com)
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville)
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville (http://www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on January 21, 2016, 06:47:15 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 19, 2016, 06:49:09 PM
Quote from: with age came? on January 19, 2016, 05:23:03 PM
AU Pep if I knew how to give out karma I'd do it for that last post!!!  ;) ;) ;)

Haha....stick around and keep posting. Once you get past being a "starter," Sir Pat will grant you a magic wand with which you can grant karma (or smite) anyone you please. Meantime, here' some +K for ya.

Actually I think you just have to reach a total of 200 posts to be able to give out karma. At least it was the last I knew. So I believe, my friend from Beaver Falls... not Beaver River, you are able to pass out the good and the bad. ;D

with age... just go to Pep's (or mine..hint hint) identity info and click on the word... "applaud"....that's in brackets, if you want to give out the good stuff. Click on..."smite"...in brackets, if you want to damn that sucker to hell, everlasting. Just one click is all you need and you can't give someone good or bad stuff again until 24 hours have gone by. Try it and see if I'm right. You won't see applaud or smite under your identity info because you obviously aren't allowed to give yourself good K. Here's an example using my identity info of what you should be looking at:

magicman
All-American
******
Posts: 8659
Karma: +591/-47
[applaud] [smite]

So yeah, give it a shot, I think you're already good to go. 8-)

Quote from: with age came? on January 19, 2016, 08:56:13 PM
Cool!!!  I wonder if Sir Pat would combine my posts from my previous life as With Age Comes?  (forgot the pass word for that one and had to create a new self??)  At least now I have a new goal in life??!!  More posts!! lol ::)

I think Pat can combine your old identity with your new one. I believe he's done that before to posters that have lost their former selves because of mixups. But you need to ask him to do so. (Wait till he's in a good mood, like after Catholic (his alma mater) has won a game, not today, because they lost to Junita last night) 

PS: I always knew you had a split personality, but didn't know you were reincarnated as well.  ;D


 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ronk on January 21, 2016, 08:14:46 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 21, 2016, 06:47:15 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 19, 2016, 06:49:09 PM
Quote from: with age came? on January 19, 2016, 05:23:03 PM
AU Pep if I knew how to give out karma I'd do it for that last post!!!  ;) ;) ;)

Haha....stick around and keep posting. Once you get past being a "starter," Sir Pat will grant you a magic wand with which you can grant karma (or smite) anyone you please. Meantime, here' some +K for ya.

Actually I think you just have to reach a total of 200 posts to be able to give out karma. At least it was the last I knew. So I believe, my friend from Beaver Falls... not Beaver River, you are able to pass out the good and the bad. ;D

with age... just go to Pep's (or mine..hint hint) identity info and click on the word... "applaud"....that's in brackets, if you want to give out the good stuff. Click on..."smite"...in brackets, if you want to damn that sucker to hell, everlasting. Just one click is all you need and you can't give someone good or bad stuff again until 24 hours have gone by. Try it and see if I'm right. You won't see applaud or smite under your identity info because you obviously aren't allowed to give yourself good K. Here's an example using my identity info of what you should be looking at:

magicman
All-American
******
Posts: 8659
Karma: +591/-47
[applaud] [smite]

So yeah, give it a shot, I think you're already good to go. 8-)

Quote from: with age came? on January 19, 2016, 08:56:13 PM
Cool!!!  I wonder if Sir Pat would combine my posts from my previous life as With Age Comes?  (forgot the pass word for that one and had to create a new self??)  At least now I have a new goal in life??!!  More posts!! lol ::)

I think Pat can combine your old identity with your new one. I believe he's done that before to posters that have lost their former selves because of mixups. But you need to ask him to do so. (Wait till he's in a good mood, like after Catholic (his alma mater) has won a game, not today, because they lost to Junita last night) 

PS: I always knew you had a split personality, but didn't know you were reincarnated as well.  ;D




You mean Joe Willie Namath chats now on D3 hoops?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 22, 2016, 03:21:04 PM
No he was my 3rd cousin's once removed neighbor's Pennsylvania clan...  my clan is from New York ::)  And guess what Magic I believe you may have an additional piece of karma  - now that I am "so powerful"!! ;D

P.S. Pep ur next!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 23, 2016, 06:56:58 PM
Another wild and wacky weekend in the LL. RPI, in last place Thursday, beats SLU and Skidmore. RIT loses to Vassar. Here are the updated conference standings:

RIT 5-3
St. Lawrence 4-3
Hobart 4-3
Skidmore 5-4
Clarkson 4-4
Union 4-5
RPI 3-4
Vassar 3-4
Bard 3-5
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on January 24, 2016, 12:24:29 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on January 23, 2016, 06:56:58 PM
Another wild and wacky weekend in the LL. RPI, in last place Thursday, beats SLU and Skidmore. RIT loses to Vassar. Here are the updated conference standings:

RIT 5-3
St. Lawrence 4-3
Hobart 4-3
Skidmore 5-4
Clarkson 4-4
Union 4-5
RPI 3-4
Vassar 3-4
Bard 3-5

Wow last place is 2 games out of first place??  1 weekend can change anything. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 25, 2016, 05:54:40 PM
Way to go RPI!!!  The road is paved now to everyone with an 8 and 8 record and the best tie breaker scenario in the "history of d-3 basketball" (of course this is completely undocumented and the opinion of me and not the producers of this program?) ::)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ronk on January 25, 2016, 06:04:21 PM
Quote from: with age came? on January 25, 2016, 05:54:40 PM
Way to go RPI!!!  The road is paved now to everyone with an 8 and 8 record and the best tie breaker scenario in the "history of d-3 basketball" (of course this is completely undocumented and the opinion of me and not the producers of this program?) ::)

Go for it! I love tiebreakers. ::) About 10 years ago, the MAC-Freedom had the possibility of five of the 8 teams finishing at 9-5 going into the final week. Only 4 go into the conference tourney to decide the AQ, so one would have been eliminated from the national championship merely by a tie breaker. Thankfully, it didn't play out that way.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on January 26, 2016, 12:11:01 AM
Quote from: with age came? on January 25, 2016, 05:54:40 PM
Way to go RPI!!!  The road is paved now to everyone with an 8 and 8 record and the best tie breaker scenario in the "history of d-3 basketball" (of course this is completely undocumented and the opinion of me and not the producers of this program?) ::)

I must admit....I don't keep up with LL hoops too often, but I'm definitely gonna take a peek, in about 3 weeks, to see whats what in their league standings!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on January 26, 2016, 01:36:39 PM
Bengals its just amazing right now in this league- top to bottom with the parity is pretty cool in a sense now that I'm not quite as invested in my Golden Knights...  still would hope that at their 8 and 8 the tiebreakers would have them in the playoffs...hehe ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 26, 2016, 04:54:55 PM
Prior to Tuesday's games, here are the scoring margin numbers (in conference). Amazing!

Team    Off.     Def.      Margin

RIT       78.6   73.6        5.0
Hobart   65.1   63.6       1.6
SLU       72.0   70.4        1.6
Skid      69.4    69.2        0.2
Clarkson 62.3   62.3       0.0
Union     72.9    73.1      -0.2
RPI         63.3   65.7       -2.4
Bard      66.5     68.9       -2.4
Vassar   63.3     67.0        -3.7
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on January 26, 2016, 08:42:49 PM
Quote from: with age came? on January 26, 2016, 01:36:39 PM
Bengals its just amazing right now in this league- top to bottom with the parity is pretty cool in a sense now that I'm not quite as invested in my Golden Knights...  still would hope that at their 8 and 8 the tiebreakers would have them in the playoffs...hehe ;D

"Keep hope alive"!!! ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dcahill44 on January 27, 2016, 10:57:26 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on January 26, 2016, 04:54:55 PM
Prior to Tuesday's games, here are the scoring margin numbers (in conference). Amazing!

Team    Off.     Def.      Margin

RIT       78.6   73.6        5.0
Hobart   65.1   63.6       1.6
SLU       72.0   70.4        1.6
Skid      69.4    69.2        0.2
Clarkson 62.3   62.3       0.0
Union     72.9    73.1      -0.2
RPI         63.3   65.7       -2.4
Bard      66.5     68.9       -2.4
Vassar   63.3     67.0        -3.7
This is incredible how close everybody is to each other I predict RIT, SLU, Hobart, Skidmore in the playoffs but we will see
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 30, 2016, 06:32:19 PM
Updated Liberty League standings, after the weekend's games:

St. Lawrence 6-3
Skidmore 7-4
RIT 6-4
Hobart 5-5
Vassar 5-5
Clarkson 5-5
Union 5-5
RPI 3-6
Bard 3-8
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 01, 2016, 07:07:59 PM
Come on Bard ...hold up your end of the bargain and win out...  Go 8 and 8 like everybody else (hopefully its still mathematically possible??) ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 03, 2016, 10:09:52 AM
Bard's got 5 games left, so it's still possible!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 03, 2016, 02:23:16 PM
D3hoops column Around the East has a short bit about the tight Liberty League race in an article that just came out today. Here's the link:

http://www.d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-region/east/2015-16/hartwick-shooting
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 03, 2016, 04:33:26 PM
For the third consecutive year, Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) will air for 12 hours as the regular season enters the final four weeks. Dave McHugh will chat with coaches, administrators, student-athletes, and others involved in Division III basketball from around the country. Other guests will include those who have Division III roots or appreciate the division and the game along with the student-athletes who play the sport.

Hoopsville will air from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. (and maybe later) on Thursday, February 4 live from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can see what guests are scheduled, get more information, and watch the show here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/feb4

You can also read the press release about the show: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/hoopsville-marathon-2016

Here is the guest list as we speak. All times are Eastern and subject to change. Additional guests to be added if and when necessary:


   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
TimeGuestSchool
10:15amConnie TilleySt. Norbert (WBB) - WBCA Center Court
10:40amJamie PurdyPeidmont (WBB)
11:00amKeri CarolloUW-Whitewater (WBB) - Nat'l Committee Chair
11:20amBrent PollariSaint Mary's (Minn.) (WBB)
11:40amKent MadsenNo. 21 Wheaton (Ill.) (WBB)
12:00pmRussell LoydRose-Hulman (MBB)
12:20pmKevin BroderickNazareth (MBB)
12:40pmJustin ScottArcadia (MBB)
1:00pmSam HargravesNo. 12 Alma (MBB)
1:20pmLenny ReichMount Union (SID)
1:40pmMaureen WebsterClarkson (WBB)
2:00pmBetsy WitmanYork (Pa.) (WBB)
2:20pmSara LeeDenison (WBB)
2:40pmKlay KneuppelWisconsin Lutheran (MBB)
3:00pmBrian Van HaaftenBuena Vista (MBB) - Nat'l Committee Chair
3:30pmSydney MossNo. 1 Thomas More (WBB)
3:45pmAaron RousellBucknell (WBB) - former Chicago coach
4:00pmTim ShanahanStaten Island (WBB)
4:20Pat CunninghamTrinity (Texas) (MBB) - NABC Coach's Corner
4:50pmBubba SmithSewanee (MBB)
5:15pmBen StrongFormer Guilford All-American
5:30pmKevin ConnorsESPN SportsCenter Anchor - Ithaca alumnus
6:00pmKristen DowlingClaremont-Mudd-Scripps (WBB)
6:20pmAllison ColemanSage (WBB)
6:40pmLandry KosmalskiSwarthmore (MBB)
7:00pmDave NilandNo. 23 Penn State-Behrend (MBB)
7:20pmAaron GallettaLasell (MBB)
7:40pmJohn BaronGwynedd-Mercy (MBB)
8:00pm
8:20pm
8:40pmMelissa HodgdonWheaton (Mass.) (WBB)
9:00pmG.P. GromackiNo. 2 Amherst (WBB)
9:20pmJames Wagner
9:40pmHAPPY HOURFree-for-all of calls, tweets, and fun!

We hope to get at least the full show on a podcast, or several podcast, during the on Friday. You can find it here:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville

And a reminder the Hoopsville Fundraising Project has begun yet again. Please consider helping us cover Division III basketball the way it deserves to be covered. If you can not donate, please don't worry about - we understand. At least share the campaign with anyone you think might be interested: http://igg.me/at/hoopsville-fundraiser/x/6029509

Also, if you know any advertisers interested in promoting their company or products on the show, send them our way: hoopsville@d3hoops.com

Thanks!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 04, 2016, 08:21:55 PM
Thanks for posting the link Magic....know its possible for Bard to be 8-8 but with the remaining games is it possible for everyone to be 8 and 8?  With the schedule remaining and with how each team fares is it possible (for instance if Bard wins all five does that mean someone else must finish 7 and 9 in the league)??  I'm not bright enough to figure that out and I certainly can't write a computer program to figure out? ;D

But I can always wish for it as love as my Knights have advantages in the tie break scenario (or at least a double headed coin??) hehehe
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 06, 2016, 01:48:59 PM
Quote from: with age came? on January 19, 2016, 08:56:13 PM
Cool!!!  I wonder if Sir Pat would combine my posts from my previous life as With Age Comes?  (forgot the pass word for that one and had to create a new self??)  At least now I have a new goal in life??!!  More posts!! lol ::)

You have karma access already -- after 200 posts you get the privilege. There are "applaud" and "smite" buttons under the poster's name for you to use.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 06, 2016, 06:55:40 PM
Vassar and Bard sweep RIT and Hobart. Standings tighten up a bit. After Saturday's games:

St. Lawrence 8-4
Skidmore 7-5
Union 7-5
Vassar 7-5
RIT 6-6
Hobart 5-7
Clarkson 5-7
Bard 5-8
RPI 4-7
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 10, 2016, 01:54:07 PM
Regional Rankings: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/10/first-2016-regional-rankings-released-today/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 10, 2016, 07:03:50 PM
Parity is a bear!!!!  Poor Liberty League....there is  possibility I believe that every team could go 8 and 8 if things play out exactly as needed...RPI must really impress with some home wins down the stretch and St Lawrence has to lose to everyone on the road except for their final home game with  Clarkson in which neither team is really on the road (10 minute drive from Potsdam to Canton)!!  How amazing would that be a whole league at 8 and 8.... the tie break scenario would be incredible!!!!  God I love d3 hoops..no way would you ever have a chance at that in the "power conferences"!!!  But parity means no love in the rankings though St. Lawrence is one of the 3 losses that number 1 regional ranked Plattsburgh has and Liberty League "bottom dweller" has a win over Middlebury which ain't too shabby!!  Here is to parity both the for the good reasons and the bad!!  May the one bid league go on to be National Champion!!! :D ;D ::)  and no haters please as I know I now am armed with the all powerful Karma and Smite tool!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 10, 2016, 07:57:08 PM
Quote from: with age came? on February 10, 2016, 07:03:50 PM
Parity is a bear!!!!  Poor Liberty League....there is  possibility I believe that every team could go 8 and 8 if things play out exactly as needed...RPI must really impress with some home wins down the stretch and St Lawrence has to lose to everyone on the road except for their final home game with  Clarkson in which neither team is really on the road (10 minute drive from Potsdam to Canton)!!  How amazing would that be a whole league at 8 and 8.... the tie break scenario would be incredible!!!!  God I love d3 hoops..no way would you ever have a chance at that in the "power conferences"!!!  But parity means no love in the rankings though St. Lawrence Skidmore is one of the 3 losses that number 1 regional ranked Plattsburgh has and Liberty League "bottom dweller" has a win over Middlebury which ain't too shabby!!  Here is to parity both the for the good reasons and the bad!!  May the one bid league go on to be National Champion!!! :D ;D ::)  and no haters please as I know I now am armed with the all powerful Karma and Smite tool!!!  ;D


There you go I fixed it for you. ;D      Plattsburgh State is 2-1 against the Liberty League this year.

November 17th 2015   Plattsburgh State 83  Clarkson 67
November 23rd 2015   Skidmore 94  Plattsburgh 69
December 1st 2015      Plattsburgh State 77 St.Lawrence 65
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on February 11, 2016, 12:15:01 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 10, 2016, 07:57:08 PM
Quote from: with age came? on February 10, 2016, 07:03:50 PM
Parity is a bear!!!!  Poor Liberty League....there is  possibility I believe that every team could go 8 and 8 if things play out exactly as needed...RPI must really impress with some home wins down the stretch and St Lawrence has to lose to everyone on the road except for their final home game with  Clarkson in which neither team is really on the road (10 minute drive from Potsdam to Canton)!!  How amazing would that be a whole league at 8 and 8.... the tie break scenario would be incredible!!!!  God I love d3 hoops..no way would you ever have a chance at that in the "power conferences"!!!  But parity means no love in the rankings though St. Lawrence Skidmore is one of the 3 losses that number 1 regional ranked Plattsburgh has and Liberty League "bottom dweller" has a win over Middlebury which ain't too shabby!!  Here is to parity both the for the good reasons and the bad!!  May the one bid league go on to be National Champion!!! :D ;D ::)  and no haters please as I know I now am armed with the all powerful Karma and Smite tool!!!  ;D


There you go I fixed it for you. ;D      Plattsburgh State is 2-1 against the Liberty League this year.

November 17th 2015   Plattsburgh State 83  Clarkson 67
November 23rd 2015   Skidmore 94  Plattsburgh 69
December 1st 2015      Plattsburgh State 77 St.Lawrence 65

With age, you should know by now to dot your i's and cross your t's when messing with magicmans Cardinals.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 12, 2016, 06:46:37 PM
Mess with the master and get disaster!!! ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 12, 2016, 10:24:50 PM
Updated after Friday's games:
Skidmore 8-5
St. Lawrence 8-5
Union 8-5
RIT 7-6
Vassar 7-6
Hobart 6-7
Bard 6-8
Clarkson 5-8
RPI 4-9
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 13, 2016, 06:03:40 PM
Cloudy picture gets a little clearer after Saturday. Still SO close, though. Everyone has two games left:

St. Lawrence 9-5
Skidmore 9-5
Union 9-5
RIT 8-6
Vassar 7-7
Bard 6-8
Hobart 6-8
Clarkson 5-9
RPI 4-10
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on February 13, 2016, 10:58:06 PM
Anyone familiar with tie breaker info. Imagine first condition would be head to head but not sure what follows.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on February 14, 2016, 02:06:48 AM
Quote from: ucaafan on February 13, 2016, 10:58:06 PM
Anyone familiar with tie breaker info. Imagine first condition would be head to head but not sure what follows.

In round robin conferences such as Sunyac the next tiebreaker after head to head is record vs common opponents starting with best record on down until tie is broken.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on February 14, 2016, 02:25:54 PM
Thanks for the info. Will let the LL figure it out for me.   ;) ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 14, 2016, 07:49:57 PM
Here are the tiebreakers in the LL:

1.      Head-to-head results;
2.      Cumulative record against all teams with a better record than those
who are tied;
3.      Record vs. conference opponents in descending order;
4.      Best record in Liberty League road games;
5.      Winning percentage vs. common opponents in non-conference play;
6.      Winning percentage vs. all opponents with an end-of-season record of
.500 or above;
7.      Winning percentage vs. all opponents with an end-of-season record of
below .500, and
8.      Coin Flip.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on February 14, 2016, 10:51:09 PM
Good stuff! Can definitely work with that. You deserve karma but I am still working on that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 15, 2016, 01:00:51 PM
Quote from: ucaafan on February 14, 2016, 10:51:09 PM
Good stuff! Can definitely work with that. You deserve karma but I am still working on that.
I'll give him 1 for you and 1 for you too! ;D In fact 1 for everybody on this page.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 15, 2016, 02:33:22 PM
Guess my Knights and RPI are messing up my potential 8 and 8 to all scenario!!   I agree with the Karma dispensation and now that I am armed and dangerous I do believe the d3 cubed dude does deserve more + Karma!!!  Who knew this could be so fun in the middle of a disastrous season for my Clarkson team??? :D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 15, 2016, 05:49:22 PM
Wow I got some positive karma. I'm honored.
So here's the deal. Clarkson, Bard and RPI are out. Vassar can still catch and even pass RIT, and the Brewers swept the Tigers this year so they own the tiebreaker. But if Bard beats Vassar and RIT beats Hobart Wednesday, it's over for Vassar. Hobart, like Bard, can get to 8-8 but would lose tiebreaker with RIT, so the Statesmen are out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on February 15, 2016, 10:38:00 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 15, 2016, 01:00:51 PM
Quote from: ucaafan on February 14, 2016, 10:51:09 PM
Good stuff! Can definitely work with that. You deserve karma but I am still working on that.
I'll give him 1 for you and 1 for you too! ;D In fact 1 for everybody on this page.

Thank you magicman....you shouldn't have! But I'll take it!!!  :-[
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 18, 2016, 07:12:42 AM
Vassar edged Bard last night. RIT lost to Hobart. If Vassar can beat last-place RPI on Sunday, they join Skidmore, Union and SLU in the LL Tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 19, 2016, 04:44:33 AM
Well if you can't "join'em" (the playoffs) you might as well "beat'em" (the playoff teams)...Saints down ...Skidmore's next??  Go Knights!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 21, 2016, 07:01:34 PM
Vassar loses to last-place RPI ... then backs into the playoffs when RIT loses to Union an hour later.

Wednesday's semifinals: St. Lawrence at Union, Vassar at Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 22, 2016, 09:26:06 AM
Good luck to LL tourney participants this year. Hobart had their "playoff like" win by coming back and beating Union this weekend. Oh to have one of those league losses back .... Oh well, young team , optimistic for next year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 24, 2016, 12:53:09 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on February 21, 2016, 07:01:34 PM
Vassar loses to last-place RPI ... then backs into the playoffs when RIT loses to Union an hour later.

Wednesday's semifinals: St. Lawrence at Union, Vassar at Skidmore.

Remember fondly when a certain situation happened like that to my Knights....When it comes to the playoffs everybody is at 0 and 0. ;D
The history of 2008....oh the lovely memories!!! :D  Back then it was a 2 day mini-tournament at the home court of the highest seed...apparently not so anymore?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2016, 02:17:11 PM
Final public regional rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/24/third-ncaa-regional-ranking/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 24, 2016, 08:45:33 PM
LL Semifinals
#1 Skidmore 82, #4 Vassar 71
#3 St. Lawrence 91, Union 85

Final - Saturday
#3 St. Lawrence at #1 Skidmore
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2016, 12:09:54 AM
Quote from: magicman on November 14, 2015, 05:22:25 AM
I think the top 2 of Skidmore and SLU, are probably correct. Not sure I would have Vassar bringing up the rear. I think they might finish higher than a couple of teams listed in front of them. I watched them play Friday night against New Paltz and they could have won that game with a little luck. They gave up an 11 point lead with 16 minutes left to play when New Paltz went on a 17-2 run. The Brewers were down 68-58 with 5:30 left and ended up losing 70-68 and had a chance to win it with a 3 pointer twice in the final 30 seconds. They could surprise a few teams.
The 3rd through 7th spots are fairly interchangeable and will really depend on how well the teams come together with all the young faces in the League this year.

This is my post from November 14th. I think it was pretty close to describing what took place in the Liberty League this season. The only reason the race for the top seed was so close was due to Skidmore losing Aldin Medunjanin in the 4th game of the season. With him in the lineup the Thoroughbreds would have won this  league going away. They could very well have went 16-0 in conference play and most likely no worse than a 14-2 mark.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 25, 2016, 11:04:03 AM
That is incredible.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: with age came? on February 25, 2016, 02:14:04 PM
d3 cubed...you will come to know that they call him the "magicman" for a reason!! :D  The man is incredible in this arena and in many others as well!!  Think this 1 bid league may surprise some people in the big dance!!  Especially if the dance card is filed with Skidmore!!  Have to root for them and the Clarkson women!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 27, 2016, 05:54:04 PM
Unbelievably bad officiating performance for the LL men's final.  Ignore my username, but that was absolutely horrific.  I think the Liberty League should devote all summer to teaching officials what a player control foul is.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 07, 2016, 01:52:51 PM
I'm asking all the people that visit this board to take the time to help get the East Region another player in the All Star game that takes place during the Final Four weekend in Salem Virginia. Go to this link and cast your ballot for Kyle Richardson from Plattsburgh State:

  http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2016/03/nabc-all-star-voting

You may have to click the refresh button if the vote totals already show up. So if they are showing a percentage for each player click refresh. 

You can vote once for each browser you have, so if you have 2 computers vote on each of them. We can only vote from now until noon on Wednesday, soDON'T wait and DO spread the news to your friends.
We need all the help we can muster to get Kyle to Virginia.

You don't have to be a registered user of the D3hoops website. Just pull up the page go to the link and cast your ballot. So get your wives, girl friends, mistresses, sons, daughters, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents and every friend you have, or ever did have, to jump online and vote as well. Kyle will need all the help he can get because the other regions have more schools than our region does.

Thanks for your help. 8-) 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gordonmann on September 19, 2016, 01:31:05 PM
This is a quiet board, but just in case anyone is lurking, we have all the Liberty League men's and women's basketball schedules posted for next season except for Union. If you click on the team pages, they will still default to last season for a little while. But you can get next season's schedules by switching the dates at the end of the URL.

http://d3hoops.com/teams/Skidmore/Men/2016-17/index
http://d3hoops.com/teams/Clarkson/Women/2016-17/index
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 11, 2016, 12:21:02 PM
So who is going to challenge Skidmore this year? They've got a lot coming back, including Medunjanin and Rupkus ... the LL schedule is a grind but who are the challengers for the crown?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 12, 2016, 05:46:10 AM
St. Lawrence returns most of their talent from last year. I expect they will be the top challenger for Skidmore's crown but the Thoroughbreds will, in all likelihood, barring injuries, finish in the top spot once again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 13, 2016, 04:45:09 PM
Believe it not, the 2016-17 basketball season is just days away. But the season can't start without Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) hitting the air!

Tune in tonight starting at 7pm as Dave talks to the two preseason numbers one teams, finds out how the offseason went for the two defending national championships, and touches bases with the men's and women's basketball committee chairs.

Guests include:
- Kevin Vande Streek, men's basketball committee chair and head coach for Calvin
- Bobbi Morgan, women's basketball committee chair and head coach for Haverford
- John Tauer, head coach for No. 10 St. Thomas men
- Dave Hixon, head coach for No. 1 Amherst men
- Jeff Hans, head coach for No. 4 Thomas More women
- Carla Berube, head coach for No. 1 Tufts women

You can watch the show here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/nov13

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 15, 2016, 10:10:03 AM
2016-17 LIBERTY LEAGUE MEN'S BASKETBALL PRESEASON POLL

1. Skidmore, 64 (8)
2. St. Lawrence, 55 (1)
3. Hobart, 48
4. Union, 45
5. RIT, 37
6. RPI, 24
7. Vassar, 22
8, Clarkson, 17
9. Bard, 12

(First-place votes are in parentheses)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on November 23, 2016, 06:44:50 PM
Some familiar names missing from a few LL rosters including Mosley at Bard and 6'10 Grinde of Vassar. Is it due to transfers, injuries, etc?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 24, 2016, 07:39:21 AM
Bard's Mosley transferred to Cabrini. Vassar's Grinde blew out his knee and is a student assistant coach this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on November 25, 2016, 02:52:23 PM
Thank you D3 cubed! :D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 27, 2016, 08:20:00 PM
Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) returns to the air tonight - shortly - at 7pm ET! Join us as Dave McHugh takes a look at yet another crazy start to the Division III basketball season especially on the men's side. Dave will also bring back interviews conducted at this year's #Hoopsville Classic. There will also be plenty of time to answer your questions, so join us!

Guests include (recorded at Hoopsville Classic):
- Josh Merkel, Randolph-Macon men's coach
- Joe Burke, Skidmore men's coach
- Rick Ferry, Albright men's coach

Show hits the air at 7:00 PM ET here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/nov27 #d3h.

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 04, 2016, 04:03:35 PM
Great start to the season for Saints.  Did not expect them to be 6-1 at this point in the season.  Naclerio has made enormous strides this year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on December 04, 2016, 10:55:08 PM
Having seen Alfred up close and personal last Tuesday, I have no doubt that they will finish in the top 4 of Empire 8. A deep and talented team (IMHO) that hasn't gotten too much pub (as of yet) on these E8 boards. Probably because the football team has been kickin butt!   ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 08, 2016, 04:50:19 AM
Quote from: Bengalsrule on December 04, 2016, 10:55:08 PM
Having seen Alfred up close and personal last Tuesday, I have no doubt that they will finish in the top 4 of Empire 8. A deep and talented team (IMHO) that hasn't gotten too much pub (as of yet) on these E8 boards. Probably because the football team has been kickin butt!   ;)

I think you're on the wrong street. The E8 board is a few blocks on the other side of town. ;D This is the LL board.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dlippiel on December 08, 2016, 11:26:08 AM
Hello friends! dlip is usually a FB poster but heading to the Union/Ithaca game this evening. dlip has been wanting to join rlip (his Dad) at some Union BB games for some years now. It ****ing starts tonight  :).

Anyone have any info on Union? Ithaca? dlip would appreciate some insight. Thanks!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on December 08, 2016, 10:13:32 PM
Quote from: magicman on December 08, 2016, 04:50:19 AM
Quote from: Bengalsrule on December 04, 2016, 10:55:08 PM
Having seen Alfred up close and personal last Tuesday, I have no doubt that they will finish in the top 4 of Empire 8. A deep and talented team (IMHO) that hasn't gotten too much pub (as of yet) on these E8 boards. Probably because the football team has been kickin butt!   ;)

I think you're on the wrong street. The E8 board is a few blocks on the other side of town. ;D This is the LL board.

I thought I'd give these guys a heads up too :P :-[ ::)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on December 08, 2016, 10:19:04 PM
Dlip,
Hope you enjoyed the Union game! Read your blog and very moving. Thank you for your service! :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on December 30, 2016, 07:43:22 PM
Liberty League play started today - nothing but crickets out here! No real surprises, though.

Skidmore 76, Vassar 55
RPI 74, RIT 70
St. Lawrence 75, Union 63

Hobart played in a tough tournament and got beat yesterday (85-72 vs. Wooster) and today (85-63 vs. Ohio Wesleyan)

Saturday:
RIT @ Skidmore
St. Lawrence @ RPI
Vassar @ Union
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 31, 2016, 12:02:00 AM
Very pleased with my alma mater's performance this season.  Experienced group playing good team ball.  Only loss so far was to the then #1 team in the country.  Still chuckling a bit at a previous post predicting an easy win for Plattsburgh over us.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 31, 2016, 03:32:34 PM
Weekend sweep for the Saints, 76-63 win over RPI.  Saints are rolling.  Couple tough tests coming up next week with Clarkson and Brockport.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on December 31, 2016, 04:58:33 PM
Yes, impressive weekend for SLU, starting the conference slate 2-0.Those road wins aren't givens in the LL.

Other games:
Union 89, Vassar 66
Skidmore 78, RIT 72
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on January 02, 2017, 10:38:16 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 31, 2016, 12:02:00 AM
Very pleased with my alma mater's performance this season.  Experienced group playing good team ball.  Only loss so far was to the then #1 team in the country.  Still chuckling a bit at a previous post predicting an easy win for Plattsburgh over us.

I wouldn't get too tickled about magicmans predictions. He has been predicting Plattsburgh to win every game they play, since 2011!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 03, 2017, 08:45:54 PM
Kid from Rochester hits two foul shots with less than a second left and the fourth-ranked Yellow Jackets edge RIT, 73-72.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 03, 2017, 10:38:18 PM
Unbelievable game in Canton tonight.  Best SLU game I've ever seen, and up there for best game I've ever seen period.  111-105 double OT win for SLU.  Down 10 with just over 3 minutes left in regulation and Downs dialed up the press.  Forced 3 consecutive turnovers to get the game down to 3 points, and then a game tying 3 with 10 seconds left by Kobis sent it to OT.  Clarkson went up 4 in the first OT but SLU went on a run of their own capped off by a MONSTER dunk by Ben Crawford.  Thought SLU would finish them off but Clarkson drew an and 1 with 8 seconds left to tie it.  Couple big stops in 2/OT from the Saints which led to a game of free throws which sealed the win.  Wow, just an amazing game. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: AUPepBand on January 05, 2017, 09:11:18 AM
Quote from: magicman on December 08, 2016, 04:50:19 AM
Quote from: Bengalsrule on December 04, 2016, 10:55:08 PM
Having seen Alfred up close and personal last Tuesday, I have no doubt that they will finish in the top 4 of Empire 8. A deep and talented team (IMHO) that hasn't gotten too much pub (as of yet) on these E8 boards. Probably because the football team has been kickin butt!   ;)

I think you're on the wrong street. The E8 board is a few blocks on the other side of town. ;D This is the LL board.

Pep reporting in here. Just got back from the football game.....is it basketball season already? Gosh, there used to be a week or so respite between the sports!

Since a very tough Buffalo State team drilled the Saxons at Galanis Arena back in November, snapping a three game win streak, AU went into a depression of sorts and lost four straight including an 87-65 smackdown to a very talented Cal Lutheran team in Thousand Oaks, CA and 65-60 loss to a not-so-great Luther College team in the Cal Lutheran Tourney consolation.

Good news is that after getting back on the ground in New York, the Saxons shot the lights out at Ben Light Gym en route to a 118-79 win over host Ithaca in their E8 opener. AU shot 61% from the field, better than 50% from behind the arc on 14-of-27 shooting with Tyler Seelman leading all scorers with 32.

This weekend will be a double whammy for the Saxons, who host Naz Friday night and Fisher Saturday afternoon. If AU can keep up the hot shooting, perhaps Bengalsrule's remarks warrrant some merit. Time will tell.

On Saxon Warriors!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: AUPepBand on January 05, 2017, 09:14:37 AM
Oops, Pep is headed back over to Empire8 Avenue where he belongs!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on January 07, 2017, 12:02:17 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 05, 2017, 09:14:37 AM
Oops, Pep is headed back over to Empire8 Avenue where he belongs!

Us old guys seem to get confused bout what league is where ;D.  It happens.  I'm hoping that I'm right too!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 07, 2017, 05:39:03 PM
First surprise of the LL season so far ... RPI just beat Skidmore in Saratoga
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: AUPepBand on January 08, 2017, 08:38:43 AM
Quote from: Bengalsrule on January 07, 2017, 12:02:17 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 05, 2017, 09:14:37 AM
Oops, Pep is headed back over to Empire8 Avenue where he belongs!

Us old guys seem to get confused bout what league is where ;D.  It happens.  I'm hoping that I'm right too!

Satchel Paige, when asked by reporters how old he was, replied, "How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?" Haha, Pep just celebrated his 31st birthday....for the 30th time!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on January 08, 2017, 02:39:45 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 08, 2017, 08:38:43 AM
Quote from: Bengalsrule on January 07, 2017, 12:02:17 AM
Quote from: AUPepBand on January 05, 2017, 09:14:37 AM
Oops, Pep is headed back over to Empire8 Avenue where he belongs!

Us old guys seem to get confused bout what league is where ;D.  It happens.  I'm hoping that I'm right too!

Satchel Paige, when asked by reporters how old he was, replied, "How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?" Haha, Pep just celebrated his 31st birthday....for the 30th time!

Plus k buddy!  Happy "31st"!!! Again!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Troy on January 09, 2017, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on January 07, 2017, 05:39:03 PM
First surprise of the LL season so far ... RPI just beat Skidmore in Saratoga

RPI looks good so far.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 10, 2017, 08:58:02 AM
Strange quote from Coach Burke in the Skidmore story after the loss to RPI, making it sound like captain Royce Paris and one of their bench players is hurt for an extended period of time. Does anyone know what happened to these guys in/after the Union game on Friday?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on January 10, 2017, 09:22:10 AM
Quote from: Troy on January 09, 2017, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on January 07, 2017, 05:39:03 PM
First surprise of the LL season so far ... RPI just beat Skidmore in Saratoga

RPI looks good so far.

Welcome to D3hoops!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 19, 2017, 04:38:46 PM
In every season there are surprises. Teams who rise to the top at some point making everyone take a second look at what is going on. For most, it is a matter of making sure they are still around come the midway part of the season. Are they still for real?

On Thursday's night's Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave chats with teams who clearly aren't just start-to-the-season flash-in-the-pans. Some conference races are not shaping up how many expected when the season began and for these squads they are perfectly fine with that.

Don't forget tonight's coverage looks primarily at the East, Mid-Atlantic, Great Lakes, and West Regions, but will also include taking a look at this week's NCAA Convention and other news around Division III basketball.

Hoopsville hits the air live at 7:00 PM ET. You can watch the show on the following link or on Facebook Live: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/jan19. If you are unable to watch the show live, you can catch up On Demand or listen (or download) the podcasts (available when the show concludes).

Don't forget to contribute to the new "Hoopsville Mailbag" segment. Email questions you may have to hoopsville@d3hoops.com. Dave will answer them on air tonight or on a future show.

Guests scheduled to appear (in order of appearance):
- Mike Miller, Messiah women's head coach
- Chris Downs, St. Lawrence men's head coach
- Jon Miller, Hanover men's head coach
- Chris Novak, Bethel men's head coach

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 21, 2017, 05:56:46 PM
Another weekend sweep for the Saints.  Nice finish to the weekend with a 91-73 win over Hobart.  Hobart made 15 threes in last year's matchup at Burkman, good to see SLU control the game from the start.  Big game against Skidmore coming up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 22, 2017, 04:12:10 PM
Quote from: stlawus on January 21, 2017, 05:56:46 PM
Another weekend sweep for the Saints.  Nice finish to the weekend with a 91-73 win over Hobart.  Hobart made 15 threes in last year's matchup at Burkman, good to see SLU control the game from the start.  Big game against Skidmore coming up.
SLU looks very good this year...Statesmen not so much..good luck maybe see you in the tourney...lots for Hobart to improve on
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on January 24, 2017, 12:34:08 PM
Yeah it seems post-Bonnar Hobart Hoops is relatively average program. Hopefully they'll find another gem out there to get them back into NCAA contention like they were a few seasons ago.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 24, 2017, 07:43:57 PM
Absolutely atrocious first half by SLU against Skidmore.  Standing around on defense, forcing horrific shots, Nacliero turning it over at will.  Reality check for this squad, that was some straight up homeless play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 28, 2017, 09:44:15 PM
Nice bounce back weekend for SLU after Tuesday night's stumble at Skidmore.  Weekend sweep against two tough RPI and Union teams.  16-3 right now, if they keep playing steady should be set for an at-large bid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 03, 2017, 10:04:30 PM
Couple upsets tonight.  Hobart beats SLU in Geneva 92-78.  2nd half was the worst defensive performance I've seen all year from SLU.  Gave up 60 points and allowed Hobart to shoot 55%.  I had a feeling that was going to happen.  Hobart always shoots the lights out against us at least once a year. 

Even bigger upset in Annondale as Bard knocks off Skidmore 70-61.  Stifling defensive showing from the Raptors.  Final score not really telling the whole story as Bard had Skidmore at 44 points with about 3 minutes left.  I don't think anyone would have predicted that.  Something was bound to happen with that team seeing as they got a D1 transfer this year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 04, 2017, 12:16:38 PM
Bard's D1 transfer hasn't been on the roster for a couple of weeks. Pretty sure he left school. He played five games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 04, 2017, 02:07:50 PM
After looking at the box score it appears you're right.  I wonder what happened. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 07, 2017, 03:33:10 PM
This year's Statesmen squad may actually be better than I thought. 4 straight wins and 13-8 overall, but they go on the road next two games and six of their eight losses are on the road. Skidmore barely beat Hobart last time around. Will be interested to see if the Hobart Hoopmen can keep the win streak going.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 08, 2017, 06:14:21 PM
Hobart definitely is red-hot right now. This weekend is a real test.

The regional rankings are out. SLU at #2, Skid at #8 ...

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2017, 11:13:07 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on February 08, 2017, 06:14:21 PM
Hobart definitely is red-hot right now. This weekend is a real test.

The regional rankings are out. SLU at #2, Skid at #8 ...

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d3

Skidmore's early season losses have put them in the "win the AQ or they are out" category. Their SOS isn't good enough to get them in at this point. Not if they pick up a seventh loss that would put them in consideration for an at-large bid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 09, 2017, 12:57:18 PM
Good point. But what if SLU, which lost to Skidmore 83-66 the last time they met, can't get the AQ because they can't beat Skidmore in the LL tournament?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 09, 2017, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on February 09, 2017, 12:57:18 PM
Good point. But what if SLU, which lost to Skidmore 83-66 the last time they met, can't get the AQ because they can't beat Skidmore in the LL tournament?

SLU's going to get an at-large bid.  Very tough non-league SOS with a loss to the then #1 team in the country, who are still ranked in the top 10.  They beat a very good Oswego squad on the road as well.  This reminds me of the 2008-2009 team.  Had a lot of wins like this season but couldn't get past RPI in the regular season or in the LL tourney.  Still ended up in the Sweet 16.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 10, 2017, 02:56:28 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 09, 2017, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on February 09, 2017, 12:57:18 PM
Good point. But what if SLU, which lost to Skidmore 83-66 the last time they met, can't get the AQ because they can't beat Skidmore in the LL tournament?

SLU's going to get an at-large bid.  Very tough non-league SOS with a loss to the then #1 team in the country, who are still ranked in the top 10.  They beat a very good Oswego squad on the road as well.  This reminds me of the 2008-2009 team.  Had a lot of wins like this season but couldn't get past RPI in the regular season or in the LL tourney.  Still ended up in the Sweet 16.

SLU is in good shape, but I hardly ever say a team is a lock. Only 4-losses helps, so we are assuming a fifth should they lose in the conference tournament and be in position for an at-large. Their SOS of .534 (as of Sunday; .533 today) isn't bad... it's pretty decent... which will help them stay in the conversation. The problem comes if they lose another game between now and the tournament... adding a sixth loss starts to get dicey. Also, the SOS will probably come down slightly as they finish the season and their early round game(s) in the conference tournament will pull it down as well.

I wouldn't say they will get an at-large bid, but they are in far, Far, FAR, FARRRR better shape than Skidmore who has to win to get in at this point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2017, 03:04:42 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 10, 2017, 02:56:28 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 09, 2017, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on February 09, 2017, 12:57:18 PM
Good point. But what if SLU, which lost to Skidmore 83-66 the last time they met, can't get the AQ because they can't beat Skidmore in the LL tournament?

SLU's going to get an at-large bid.  Very tough non-league SOS with a loss to the then #1 team in the country, who are still ranked in the top 10.  They beat a very good Oswego squad on the road as well.  This reminds me of the 2008-2009 team.  Had a lot of wins like this season but couldn't get past RPI in the regular season or in the LL tourney.  Still ended up in the Sweet 16.

SLU is in good shape, but I hardly ever say a team is a lock. Only 4-losses helps, so we are assuming a fifth should they lose in the conference tournament and be in position for an at-large. Their SOS of .534 (as of Sunday; .533 today) isn't bad... it's pretty decent... which will help them stay in the conversation. The problem comes if they lose another game between now and the tournament... adding a sixth loss starts to get dicey. Also, the SOS will probably come down slightly as they finish the season and their early round game(s) in the conference tournament will pull it down as well.

I wouldn't say they will get an at-large bid, but they are in far, Far, FAR, FARRRR better shape than Skidmore who has to win to get in at this point.

The problem will really come if they can't beat Skidmore.  A loss to end the season and then another in the LL tournament could make things a little more difficult.  But it will also depend on how many upsets happen elsewhere.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 10, 2017, 05:56:22 PM
Last year they split with Skidmore in the regular season with the home team winning both games.  They can beat them, it's just a matter of who shows up to play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 11, 2017, 01:18:31 PM
Skidmore pulled a home win out of their ... hats ... against Hobart last night. They're not playing lights out lately but there's not one team in the league that would look forward to seeing them in a playoff game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 15, 2017, 09:48:11 PM
Another tough win for SLU against a gritty Clarkson squad tonight in Potsdam.  Played well despite Crawford being out for the game.  Hart was unstoppable as usual and Clarkson couldn't miss from 3.  Edwards stepped up to make the big shots and the team had some clutch free throw shooting in the end.  First time in a loooooong time that SLU sweeps Clarkson.  Now at 20 wins going into a home matchup against Skidmore.  Win or lose I think this team is looking good for an at large bid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 17, 2017, 11:24:26 PM
In checking the box score of Skidmore's win over SLU I was amazed to see how many times it said:
GOOD LAYUP by RUPKUS,EDVINAS(in the paint). I counted them and it was 14 times. That was exactly how many field goals he had. That along with his 14x14 effort from the line gave him 42 points. In addition there were 12 other baskets that said GOOD LAYUP (in the paint).  That's a total of 26 layups good for 52 of the 87 points Skidmore scored. I just thought that was a lot considering that Rupkus only scored 10 points against the Saints when they met in Saratoga. The Thoroughbreds won that game with a barrage of 3 pointers (13 of them) and only scored 22 points in the paint.

Maybe the 3rd time will be the charm for the Saints if they meet again in the LL tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 20, 2017, 06:53:41 AM
Playoff pairings set. Hobart at Skidmore, Union at St. Lawrence. Wednesday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 20, 2017, 12:59:06 PM
Hopefully 3x a charm for the Statesmen....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 22, 2017, 08:46:46 PM
Bonus basketball between SLU and Union as they go to overtime tied at 91. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 22, 2017, 09:04:23 PM
Heck of a ballgame in Canton as the Saints and Dutchmen are tied in overtime at 102 with 12 seconds left. SLU with the ball coming out of a time out to try and win it. Edwards takes a 3 pointer with 3 seconds left and it clangs off the front of the rim. Union with the rebound and time out with 1 second left. Union misses a jumper at the buzzer and the teams go to double overtime.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 22, 2017, 09:12:47 PM
That was a brutal loss.  Should be in good shape for an at large bid though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 22, 2017, 09:22:35 PM
St. Lawrence goes down 110-108 as Union's Deshon Burgess buries a 3 pointer with eight tenths of a second left in double overtime. Saints Kyle Edwards missed a 3 pointer with 16 seconds left which set the stage for Burgess' heroics. This was a barnburner of the first order. 26 lead changes and 9 ties. It doesn't get much better than this game in Division 3 hoops.

Burgess had 34 points to lead Union. Three other Dutchmen in double figures. Greg King had 21, Wade McNamara had 16 and Kevin Weckworth with 15.

Riley Naclerio with 34 points and a game high 15 rebounds to lead SLU. Kyle Edwards and Willie Zachary with 22 each. 

Tough loss for the Saints but they still stand a chance of getting an at large bid to the Dance. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 22, 2017, 10:22:45 PM
And Hobart knocks of Skidmore. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2017, 11:28:02 PM

Hobart vs Union for the AQ.  Prize?  Well, luckily Hobart is 501 miles from Christopher Newport, so at least they'll get an impossible matchup closer to home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 22, 2017, 11:47:48 PM
Two losses in the Liberty League tonight as the top 2 seeds Skidmore and St.Lawrence both lose.

St. Lawrence lost in double overtime to Union 110-108 on a last second 3 pointer.

Skidmore was upset by 4th seeded Hobart 70-65.

Skidmore's loss creates  another East Region team that is hanging by a thread, hoping for an NCAA at large bid. With a 19-7 overall record it might be tough to get in. Losing in the semifinal game hurts. Two years ago Plattsburgh State won the regular season SUNYAC crown and lost in the Championship game of the conference tournament, ended up 19-8 and they didn't get an at large bid. A few years earlier when Hamilton was a member of the Liberty League they finished tied with SLU with a 12-2 league record and were 18-7 overall. They lost in the first round of the LL tournament and were bypassed by the committee.

The 3rd set of Regional Rankings came out today and Rochester is still the top ranked team in the East even with a loss in their last game. They lost the automatic bid from their conference to Washington U, so the Yellowjackets will be the first team at the table from the East Region.  St. John Fisher is ranked 2nd in the region and even if they lose I don't think SLU, with their loss tonight, will jump over the Cardinals. If Fisher loses they may be the 2nd team at the table. The best Oswego  or Brockport can be if they don't win the SUNYAC would be 20-7, assuming they win a semifinal game and lose in the championship game. That may be good enough to move them past Skidmore and in Brockport's case if they get to 20-7, move them over the Saints. They own a win over St. Lawrence and could have a stronger SOS than the Saints by selection time with 2 playoff games against the single game SLU had. SLU has a win over Oswego so if the Lakers lose, the Saints will probably stay in front of Oswego. 
There are 21 at large bids this year and 8 regions looking to get them. Some regions will get 4 or perhaps 5 bids, like the New England region as an example. The NESCAC conference could get 4 teams into the NCAA tournament and 5 isn't out of the question. The Midwest region also has a number of teams that will get at large bids. The East Region will be fortunate to get three bids. We may only get two.         
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2017, 07:53:28 AM

Obviously it'll depend on how many upsets we see in the next few days, but I think Skidmore's 6-1 vRRO will really look attractive towards the end of the selection process.  Plus, they're likely going to be on the table for a very long time, so the committee will be very familiar with them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 23, 2017, 12:10:37 PM
I was happy to see Hobart win last night. The video from Skidmore crapped out with about 5 mins remaining, but Live Stats worked. Dougherty had a big night and the team did well in transition. Third time was the charm for the Statesmen to clip the 'Breds and hopefully it'll be the same with Union, who's beaten Hobart 2x but only by about 6-8 points each time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: warriorcat on February 23, 2017, 12:29:36 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 22, 2017, 11:47:48 PM
Two losses in the Liberty League tonight as the top 2 seeds Skidmore and St.Lawrence both lose.

St. Lawrence lost in double overtime to Union 110-108 on a last second 3 pointer.

Skidmore was upset by 4th seeded Hobart 70-65.

Skidmore's loss creates  another East Region team that is hanging by a thread, hoping for an NCAA at large bid. With a 19-7 overall record it might be tough to get in. Losing in the semifinal game hurts. Two years ago Plattsburgh State won the regular season SUNYAC crown and lost in the Championship game of the conference tournament, ended up 19-8 and they didn't get an at large bid. A few years earlier when Hamilton was a member of the Liberty League they finished tied with SLU with a 12-2 league record and were 18-7 overall. They lost in the first round of the LL tournament and were bypassed by the committee.

The 3rd set of Regional Rankings came out today and Rochester is still the top ranked team in the East even with a loss in their last game. They lost the automatic bid from their conference to Washington U, so the Yellowjackets will be the first team at the table from the East Region.  St. John Fisher is ranked 2nd in the region and even if they lose I don't think SLU, with their loss tonight, will jump over the Cardinals. If Fisher loses they may be the 2nd team at the table. The best Oswego  or Brockport can be if they don't win the SUNYAC would be 20-7, assuming they win a semifinal game and lose in the championship game. That may be good enough to move them past Skidmore and in Brockport's case if they get to 20-7, move them over the Saints. They own a win over St. Lawrence and could have a stronger SOS than the Saints by selection time with 2 playoff games against the single game SLU had. SLU has a win over Oswego so if the Lakers lo
se, the Saints will probably stay in front of Oswego. 
There are 21 at large bids this year and 8 regions looking to get them. Some regions will get 4 or perhaps 5 bids, like the New England region as an example. The NESCAC conference could get 4 teams into the NCAA tournament and 5 isn't out of the question. The Midwest region also has a number of teams that will get at large bids. The East Region will be fortunate to get three bids. We may only get two.       

As always, well stated. Last night's results have really put the teams in the East Region in play for some anxious moments between now and Monday. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 23, 2017, 05:57:30 PM
We are midway through what is always the craziest week of the entire season. Teams are already hitting the at-large bubble and that is already popping some other team's hopes of making the NCAA tournament. Upsets are everywhere and it promises to continue.

Tonight on Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave not only recaps the crazy week, but looks ahead at what might happen this weekend. Plus, Dave and others will look at the last regular season Regional Rankings and try and start reading the tea leaves. Just who may be safe and who already is in trouble on plans to be playing in March.

Dave will also talk to a few teams making waves. The Union men's program is in their first conference finals in 11 years and helping turn the East Region on its head. Plus the winner of tonight's York (Pa.) at No. 20 Salisbury men's game will join us live to talk about the game. And a few reports from varying areas along with questions from fans.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show live starting at 7:00 PM ET in the video player above or on our Facebook Live simulcast. If you missed any of the show, you can watch it On Demand or listen to the podcasts located to the right (available after the show is off the air).

We will answer any questions about all of Division III throughout the show. You can also send your questions to the show and have them featured on the Hoopsville Mailbag segment or simply answer immediately on air. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com. You can also tweet them to us.

And please consider helping Hoopsville stay on the air like you might help your public television station. The annual fundraising campaign has less than three weeks remaining, but we are no where close to reaching our goal. Click here for more information:  Hoopsville Fundraising Page (https://igg.me/at/hoopsville-fundraiser-2017)

Guests scheduled (in order of appearance):
- Chris Murphy, Union men's coach
- James Wagner, Atlantic Region Report
- Salisbury or York (Pa.) winning coach

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
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Fundraiser: https://igg.me/at/hoopsville-fundraiser-2017

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Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dlippiel on February 25, 2017, 03:44:49 PM
Let's go Union!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dlippiel on February 25, 2017, 05:39:31 PM
Congrats to the 2016-2017 LL Champion Union College Dutchmen!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 25, 2017, 09:35:06 PM
Quote from: dlip on February 25, 2017, 05:39:31 PM
Congrats to the 2016-2017 LL Champion Union College Dutchmen!

You must be in 7th heaven dlip. A good friend of mine, Joe Cardany, went to Union in the late 70's-early 80's and graduated in 1981 as their all time leading scorer. His record stood for 20 years until a few guys broke his records when the 3 point shot came into play. If they had the 3 pointer when Joe was in college his record would still be unbroken.He was quite happy when I called to tell him that Union was dancing. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 26, 2017, 09:30:17 AM
Quote from: dlip on February 25, 2017, 05:39:31 PM
Congrats to the 2016-2017 LL Champion Union College Dutchmen!
Congratulations to the Dutchmen on winning the LL tournament....I thought Union was a Hockey school ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 26, 2017, 12:37:09 PM
Heartbreaker for Hobart but they have a lot of young talent on that roster, so they'll be back. Good luck to the U in the NCAAs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dlippiel on February 27, 2017, 03:22:25 PM
Quote from: magicman on February 25, 2017, 09:35:06 PM
Quote from: dlip on February 25, 2017, 05:39:31 PM
Congrats to the 2016-2017 LL Champion Union College Dutchmen!

You must be in 7th heaven dlip. A good friend of mine, Joe Cardany, went to Union in the late 70's-early 80's and graduated in 1981 as their all time leading scorer. His record stood for 20 years until a few guys broke his records when the 3 point shot came into play. If they had the 3 pointer when Joe was in college his record would still be unbroken.He was quite happy when I called to tell him that Union was dancing.

Thanks magicman! dlip is super excited for the players, staff, alum, and school! It was a great run (thanks to Hobart taking out Skidmore). dlip certainly did not think his Dutchmen would be able to defeat a solid Hobart squad three times in one year. That says a lot about their drive and focus. dlip really likes Bart and thinks very highly of them. Hopefully the Union players and staff will be able to enjoy the tourney experience!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 27, 2017, 06:43:56 PM
Nice to see my alma mater snag an at-large bid.  Seniors worked hard for it.  Luckily it's not too long of a trip to Rochacha, but it'll be a tough test against SJF nonetheless. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 27, 2017, 09:24:08 PM
Good luck to the LL ballers in the tourney.....how close it was for the Statesmen :'(, but Ponies, Larries and Dutchies all deserved their spots. Get some wins!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 03, 2017, 06:54:24 PM
Skidmore advances in the NCAA Tournament as they defeat New Jersey City by a 75-67 final score.

The Thoroughbreds led for most of the game and had a double digit lead in the 2nd half.

Aldin Medunjanin was the game's high scorer with 23 points. He added 6 rebounds and 5 assists.

Edvinas Rupkus had 20 points, 7 rebounds and 3 assists.

Pat Gallagher also  had double figures with 10 points.

Skidmore will meet the winner of the Babson-Husson game on Saturday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 04, 2017, 01:01:56 AM
Very disappointing finish to the season for this SLU squad.  Controlled the game to about midway through the 2nd half and then just collapsed in the paint defensively.  Allowed almost 40 SJF bench points.  I counted about 12 uncontested layups given up in the 2nd half.  They battled back down 6 to tie it with about 30 seconds left, but committed an HORRIFIC foul at half court with 27 seconds left that set off an implosion.  SJF made the first free throw, missed the 2nd and then SLU turns the ball over in the backcourt.  Another quick foul sent SJF, and they again made the first and missed the 2nd but SLU gave up an offensive board which sealed it. 

Very disappointing way for the seniors to go out.  They had a good season, and outperformed most expectations. This program still has yet to exceed that 08-09 squad.   

Nice to see Skidmore and Union get wins and continue to represent the league!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 04, 2017, 08:19:59 AM
Quote from: stlawus on March 04, 2017, 01:01:56 AM
Very disappointing finish to the season for this SLU squad.  Controlled the game to about midway through the 2nd half and then just collapsed in the paint defensively.  Allowed almost 40 SJF bench points.  I counted about 12 uncontested layups given up in the 2nd half.  They battled back down 6 to tie it with about 30 seconds left, but committed an HORRIFIC foul at half court with 27 seconds left that set off an implosion.  SJF made the first free throw, missed the 2nd and then SLU turns the ball over in the backcourt.  Another quick foul sent SJF, and they again made the first and missed the 2nd but SLU gave up an offensive board which sealed it. 

Very disappointing way for the seniors to go out.  They had a good season, and outperformed most expectations. This program still has yet to exceed that 08-09 squad.   



Nice to see Skidmore and Union get wins and continue to represent the league!


Tough loss,  saw the end and both teams fought hard but also made some stress errors . Home court seemed to help the Cardinals....Liberty League teams showed well....congrats to Skidmore and Union on wins..Skidmore looked very good making last Hobart win over them evidence of a strong league this year. Good luck to the LL remainers
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dlippiel on March 04, 2017, 07:44:47 PM
Dutchmen down by 12 at the half. Dlip is very impressed with The Yellowjackets. Both teams playing tough D and working their collective "asses" off. The difference to dlip is U of R's shooting. They are hitting and Union is not. Very proud of the U though. A whole half left to go in Roc cha cha...Let's go U!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 04, 2017, 08:36:54 PM
And thus ends the Liberty League's run in the tournament.  Skidmore was actually up 5 with about 5 minutes to ago on arguably the best team in the country, but couldn't keep up in the end. 

Valiant effort by Union.  Had it within 6 early in the 2nd half but Rochester's shooting was just too much. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: dlippiel on March 04, 2017, 08:40:57 PM
Congrats to SLU, Skidmore, and Union on their NCAA tourney participation and representation of the LL!

Great season U! Congrats and a heart felt thanks to the seniors!

Best of luck to U of R as they move on. Dlip was super impressed with the Yellowjackets and their shooting. Great basketball team!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: bearnation on March 15, 2017, 01:58:19 PM
Was doing some research about the Championship games in Salem VA.  Came across an all star game they play prior to the finals.  I have lost touch with D3 hoops since I moved south to Myrtle Beach, No D 3 Hoops in SC because they have no D 3 schools.  Plus my Potsdam Bears really have had a difficult run as of late.  Back in the day, I would be going to see the the Bears play for another title.  I noticed the rosters which has a player from Clarkson, Derek Hart who is from Poughkeepsie NY.  Did some research and come to find out he played high school ball at FDR in Hyde Park NY.  I spend 20 plus years of my life in Hyde Park, both kids graduated from there.  Looks like no only will I go to see the finals but also the all star game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 15, 2017, 10:23:30 PM
Quote from: bearnation on March 15, 2017, 01:58:19 PM
Was doing some research about the Championship games in Salem VA.  Came across an all star game they play prior to the finals.  I have lost touch with D3 hoops since I moved south to Myrtle Beach, No D 3 Hoops in SC because they have no D 3 schools.  Plus my Potsdam Bears really have had a difficult run as of late.  Back in the day, I would be going to see the the Bears play for another title.  I noticed the rosters which has a player from Clarkson, Derek Hart who is from Poughkeepsie NY.  Did some research and come to find out he played high school ball at FDR in Hyde Park NY.  I spend 20 plus years of my life in Hyde Park, both kids graduated from there.  Looks like no only will I go to see the finals but also the all star game.

They've been doing the All-Star game since they dropped the consolation game.  It's always a great time with some really talented seniors.  You won't regret it.  Admission comes with tickets for the weekend.  You won't be disappointed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 23, 2017, 12:21:27 PM
not too much longer until hoops season. Caz hopes Ithaca can snap out of the funk the program seems to be stuck in with its move to the LL. Not sure what to expect besides standings chaos...recalling two years ago when it seemed for a while every LL team would finish 8-8 in conference!

2017 LL Tourney MVP Deshon Burgess (Union) was picked by the Erie Bayhawks (Atlanta affiliate) in the 4th round of the G-League Draft over the weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on October 24, 2017, 09:18:55 PM
Nice article on Union's Deshon Burgess being selected by the Atlanta Hawks G-League team. Only one of two D-III players selected.

https://www.unionathletics.com/news/2017/10/24/mens-basketball-former-dutchmen-burgess-drafted-to-nba-g-league.aspx

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 02, 2017, 02:37:54 PM
Skidmore and St. Lawrence also receiving votes in preseason poll:
http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2017-18/preseason
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 10, 2017, 12:44:20 PM
http://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2017/11/9/hobart-chosen-as-2017-18-favorite-in-liberty-league-preseason-mens-basketball-poll.aspx

agree on Hobart being the team to beat, based on returners. Skidmore seems like they'll still be super fun to watch as that Rupkus dude could average 25-30 ppg. RPI has been down a while, but the coaches have them third? Hmm, interesting. SLU fourth would be a really down year for them. Vassar would have to bounce back from a terrible season to reach the prognosticated 5th place, Ithaca 6th seems about right after a lousy final season in the E8. RIT, Union and Clarkson as also-rans seems about right, Union and Clarkson in particular got totally wrecked by graduation. Then Bard...who is Bard.

btw women's race would seem to be compelling as IC and RIT picked tied for 1st only 2 points ahead of Skidmore (who has a returning All-American).

Five days until basketball!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on November 10, 2017, 11:42:51 PM
Edvinas Rupkus, Skidmore guard, has been selected as a D3hoops 2nd Team All American. I'll get to see him play when my Plattsburgh State Cardinals invade the Williamson Sports Center on November 20th at 7:00 PM. Should be an exciting game   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 15, 2017, 06:16:38 PM
GO Bart....opener tonight against the Cardinals.....help me get over football season
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 15, 2017, 07:49:12 PM
Hobart 48....Fisher 32 at the half
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 15, 2017, 09:20:50 PM
Hobart beats #19 St. John Fisher.......87-75...impressive season opener
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 16, 2017, 11:22:30 AM
Pretty strong 4-1 opening night for the Double L, coulda/shoulda/woulda been 5-0 but IC couldn't hold a 9-point lead at Cortland. Bart of course with the big result over ranked Fisher but RPI, Skidmore and Union also cruised respectively over Cobleskill, Castleton and Hartwick. 6'6" D2 transfer Dakpe Yiljep went Beef Moe for Skidmore with 25 and 11 on 10-13 from the floor.

Decent chance at another 4-1 on Friday as only Bard is a real no-chancer at Rochester. Would be impressed if St. Lawrence beats NESCAC Bowdoin on a neutral floor.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 17, 2017, 08:22:41 PM
Watching SLU's opener against Bowdoin.  I can see why these guys lost to the national champs by 4 last year.  They are a gigantic team.  Getting bailed out on the 3 point line, otherwise SLU playing decent defense.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 17, 2017, 09:45:57 PM
SLU loses their opener 80-74 but I was very impressed by this SLU squad.  Lost 2 really good guards to graduation but the freshman backcourt looked very good.  Bowdoin is an extremely strong team and SLU surpassed my expectations for that game by quite a bit. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2017, 11:20:24 PM
Blowout wins for Ithaca and RPI over SUNY Canton and Framingham State, respectively. Clarkson let a double-digit lead get away in a 3-point loss to Bridgewater State across town at Potsdam's gym. Bard kept it within 20 at #16 U of R, which is about all you can ask for.

Tomorrow will see Vassar (at Rhodes) and RIT (home against Wells) join us in the 2017-18 campaign.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 20, 2017, 08:51:53 PM
Skidmore absolutely smoked Plattsburgh 88-62. Looks like it's the Horsies and the Pumpkins at the top of this conference.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 21, 2017, 09:49:49 PM
Hobart beats #16 U of R 70-61. Good overall balanced scoring with Lesko the hot hand tonight. Still 20+ TOs for both teams , so not pretty at times...but Hobart looks fairly deep this year and does what they have to do to win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 21, 2017, 11:23:09 PM
Hobart is legit. Couple tremendous wins to start the fall.

Mixed bag for the rest of the league this evening. RPI blew out Sage and St. Lawrence beat SUNY Canton (who is probably just a tomato can at this point), but you don't like to see Bard, Vassar, RIT and Clarkson getting run off the floor by (respectively) Hartwick, New Paltz, Alfred and Oswego. I thought Vassar would be better than this and I'm getting the distinct impression Clarkson might just be awful.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 22, 2017, 07:35:30 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 21, 2017, 11:23:09 PM
Hobart is legit. Couple tremendous wins to start the fall.

Mixed bag for the rest of the league this evening. RPI blew out Sage and St. Lawrence beat SUNY Canton (who is probably just a tomato can at this point), but you don't like to see Bard, Vassar, RIT and Clarkson getting run off the floor by (respectively) Hartwick, New Paltz, Alfred and Oswego. I thought Vassar would be better than this and I'm getting the distinct impression Clarkson might just be awful.

SUNY Canton was up 20 on SLU at one point in the first half.  They hit almost every shot in the first. Size wise they are as big as a D1 team and have an Aussie 7 footer.  But SLU finally started hitting shots in the 2nd half and ran away with it in the end.  I give props to SUNY for playing an absolutely brutal schedule.   Looks like a pretty big gap after Skidmore and Hobart right now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 22, 2017, 08:52:31 AM
Quote from: stlawus on November 22, 2017, 07:35:30 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 21, 2017, 11:23:09 PM
Hobart is legit. Couple tremendous wins to start the fall.

Mixed bag for the rest of the league this evening. RPI blew out Sage and St. Lawrence beat SUNY Canton (who is probably just a tomato can at this point), but you don't like to see Bard, Vassar, RIT and Clarkson getting run off the floor by (respectively) Hartwick, New Paltz, Alfred and Oswego. I thought Vassar would be better than this and I'm getting the distinct impression Clarkson might just be awful.

SUNY Canton was up 20 on SLU at one point in the first half.  They hit almost every shot in the first. Size wise they are as big as a D1 team and have an Aussie 7 footer.  But SLU finally started hitting shots in the 2nd half and ran away with it in the end.  I give props to SUNY for playing an absolutely brutal schedule.   Looks like a pretty big gap after Skidmore and Hobart right now.

SUNY Canton worked hard to get a schedule that could earn them an NCAA berth - now they just have to win enough to make a case.  It's going to be tough, but they're trying.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 26, 2017, 06:06:17 PM
There is always a large gathering of friends and family around a large table with plenty of food that helps ring in the new basketball season. Many call it Thanksgiving, we tend to call it the second weekend of the Division III season.

And one again the early weeks of the season have not disappointed... nor been lacking surprises.

Preseason Top 25 teams have lost as often as turkeys have been overcooked this holiday week. Teams who have had surprise starts have followed up with continued surprises or more head-scratching results. However, no matter the games and no matter the wins and losses, we are thankful to have the season here and be able to talk about it.

On Sunday's Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave tries to gobble up the leftovers and figure out who was granted their wish after the snap of the wishbone. At the same time, we take the time to recognize a milestone at D3hoops.com: 20 years of being ... D3hoops.com - the home of Division III men's and women's basketball.

Dave also chats with a new dynamic duo in Baltimore. Hope Josh Loeffler and Catherine Bixby are settling into jobs that have seen the same coaches (Bill Nelson and Nancy Funk) in over thirty years.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE starting at 7:00 PM ET (or On Demand) here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2017-18/nov19. You can also listen to the podcast, located to the right, after the show is off the air.

You can also send your questions to the show and have them featured on the Hoopsville Mailbag segment. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com.

Guests include (in order of appearance):
- Pat Coleman, Editor-in-Chief, D3sports.com
- Tim Sweeney, Hobart men's coach
- Josh Loeffler, Johns Hopkins men's coach
- Katherine Bixby, Johns Hopkins women's coach

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2017, 08:38:32 PM
Hobart #19 and Skidmore #20 in the new D3Hoops poll with league play starting this weekend. Very nice.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 01, 2017, 10:12:22 PM
LL Gameday #1 in the books.

RIT 74 at Bard 63 - Tigers with four in double figures and force 24 Raptors turnovers.

Ithaca 78 at Vassar 69 - Peter Ezema scores 20 for the Bombers, Jesse Browne 21 for the still winless Brewers.

at Skidmore 81, St. Lawrence 56 - impressive opening statement for the T-Breds. Rupkus and Yiljep combine for 43.

at Union 67, Hobart 62 - 2017 tournament final rematch goes the same way as the Dutchmen shake off 4-23 3pt shooting to stun the Statesmen.

at RPI 77, Clarkson 66 - Tom Horvat 25 points, 6 steals lead Engineers past Golden Knights.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 05, 2017, 01:40:11 PM
Hobart fell into the ORV column after splitting the weekend but Skidmore rose to #16. Huge test Friday night at home against #2 Middlebury, who plays at home against Plattsburgh tonight.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 05, 2017, 02:08:15 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 05, 2017, 01:40:11 PM
Hobart fell into the ORV column after splitting the weekend but Skidmore rose to #16. Huge test Friday night at home against #2 Middlebury, who plays at home against Plattsburgh tonight.

To be honest, Hobart went 1-2 on the week in the voter's eyes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 05, 2017, 02:13:12 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 05, 2017, 02:08:15 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 05, 2017, 01:40:11 PM
Hobart fell into the ORV column after splitting the weekend but Skidmore rose to #16. Huge test Friday night at home against #2 Middlebury, who plays at home against Plattsburgh tonight.

To be honest, Hobart went 1-2 on the week in the voter's eyes.

oh right, I forgot they lost at Brockport mid-week. The loss to Union isn't great and beating Vassar seems to be borderline meaningless this year, sad to say.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: noonhooper on December 05, 2017, 10:54:19 PM
Tough luck for the Brewers so far this year. They looked like they had something going a few years ago.

Hobart is a strong team with a great coach, I know they will bounce back from a tough week where they may have been ranked too high based on the perception of the teams they beat more than where Hobart is as a team right now. Watch out for them later this year.

Also impressive is that Union has been able to keep competitive after losing an NBDL player!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 06, 2017, 11:48:59 AM
Union should be considerably tougher than the preseason poll indicated. Senior-laden team with good chemistry. That guard Weckworth is dangerous from anywhere on the floor, in the win over Hobart he was only 1-8 from three but when the shot wouldn't fall he drove and got to the line for 12-16 FTs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Libertatem Foederis on December 07, 2017, 10:44:21 PM
LL Power Rankings (Week 1)

1. Skidmore: (6-0 overall & 2-0 in league) Skidmore has been dominating their opponent  by 17.5 points on average a league best.  The non league schedule hasn't really tested them, until tomorrow night when Middlebury makes their way into the Spa.  should be a fun match-up and a good "heat check" for both teams.
2. Hobart: (3-2 overall 1-1 in League) The Statesmen had a tough road trip this past weekend with a split.  The reason I'm holding them in high regard is the schedule they have played so far, and that big win over U of R I think thy will have a good year in the AUU & that win could really help them down the road when LL is looking for At-Large bids in March.  Statistically they don't currently look as strong as years past, but its early & teams are still figuring things out.
3. Ithaca: (5-1 overall, 2-0 in league) The bombers are coming in to the LL after having a few down years in the E8.  They are an unknown and should be fun to watch them and see how they measure up.  So far so good, They split with Cortland which is a solid program in SUNYAC and I respect that win. They swept this past weekend in the mid-Hudson Valley, with a battle @ Bard.
4. RIT: (4-3 overall , 2-0 in league) The Tigers are off to a good start with a medium non-conference schedule, & A big win on the road @ Union this past weekend could be very helpful as LL progresses.  At the moment they could easily be ranked 3rd , not a lot is separating 3-6 @ the moment, but I like their non conference schedule & the W @ Union.
5. RPI: (6-1 overall , 2-0 in league) Great start for the Engineers, statistically they are in the upper tier of the league, however their non conference probably doesn't match-up like the teams above them.  Swept home opening weekend in the LL, but yet to be tested.
6. Union: (3-3 overall, 1-1 in league) Big win over Hobart @ home, & then the classic "let down" game the next day and they let one slip to RIT.  I think this team can out play their pre-season ranking and finish in the middle of the pack.
7. St. Lawrence: (2-5 overall, 0-2 in league) The Saints seem to always play a tough non-conference schedule and use that schedule to prepare them for the LL.  We will see if they continue to grow & get better.  The lose to RPI this weekend i feel was a "tell" that they aren't a top half team yet.
8. Clarkson: (3-4 overall, 0-2 in league) The Golden Knights have one of the weaker non-conference schedules.  We'll see how the win over SUNY Potsdam works out, but that is there best W.  I don't think a lot separates 6-10 in these rankings and they shouldn't , its early and as we progress teams will sort themselves out.
9. Bard: (2-6 overall, 0-2 in league) 2 close games this weekend, a nice double digit win on the @ Sage, we'll see what happens the rest of the way.
10. Vassar: (0-7 overall, 0-2 in league) By far has played the toughest schedule of any LL team.  It will be interesting if that services them well as we start LL play.  I think there is potential for the Brewers but I have to put them in the basement and refer to the Big Tuna "You are what your record says you are."

I hope it stays close between all of them as play continues!

Happy Holidays!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on December 08, 2017, 06:40:38 AM
Quote from: Libertatem Foederis on December 07, 2017, 10:44:21 PM
LL Power Rankings (Week 1)

1. Skidmore: (6-0 overall & 2-0 in league) Skidmore has been dominating their opponent  by 17.5 points on average a league best.  The non league schedule hasn't really tested them, until tomorrow night when Middlebury makes their way into the Spa.  should be a fun match-up and a good "heat check" for both teams.
2. Hobart: (3-2 overall 1-1 in League) The Statesmen had a tough road trip this past weekend with a split.  The reason I'm holding them in high regard is the schedule they have played so far, and that big win over U of R I think thy will have a good year in the AUU & that win could really help them down the road when LL is looking for At-Large bids in March.  Statistically they don't currently look as strong as years past, but its early & teams are still figuring things out.
3. Ithaca: (5-1 overall, 2-0 in league) The bombers are coming in to the LL after having a few down years in the E8.  They are an unknown and should be fun to watch them and see how they measure up.  So far so good, They split with Cortland which is a solid program in SUNYAC and I respect that win. They swept this past weekend in the mid-Hudson Valley, with a battle @ Bard.
4. RIT: (4-3 overall , 2-0 in league) The Tigers are off to a good start with a medium non-conference schedule, & A big win on the road @ Union this past weekend could be very helpful as LL progresses.  At the moment they could easily be ranked 3rd , not a lot is separating 3-6 @ the moment, but I like their non conference schedule & the W @ Union.
5. RPI: (6-1 overall , 2-0 in league) Great start for the Engineers, statistically they are in the upper tier of the league, however their non conference probably doesn't match-up like the teams above them.  Swept home opening weekend in the LL, but yet to be tested.
6. Union: (3-3 overall, 1-1 in league) Big win over Hobart @ home, & then the classic "let down" game the next day and they let one slip to RIT.  I think this team can out play their pre-season ranking and finish in the middle of the pack.
7. St. Lawrence: (2-5 overall, 0-2 in league) The Saints seem to always play a tough non-conference schedule and use that schedule to prepare them for the LL.  We will see if they continue to grow & get better.  The lose to RPI this weekend i feel was a "tell" that they aren't a top half team yet.
8. Clarkson: (3-4 overall, 0-2 in league) The Golden Knights have one of the weaker non-conference schedules.  We'll see how the win over SUNY Potsdam works out, but that is there best W.  I don't think a lot separates 6-10 in these rankings and they shouldn't , its early and as we progress teams will sort themselves out.
9. Bard: (2-6 overall, 0-2 in league) 2 close games this weekend, a nice double digit win on the @ Sage, we'll see what happens the rest of the way.
10. Vassar: (0-7 overall, 0-2 in league) By far has played the toughest schedule of any LL team.  It will be interesting if that services them well as we start LL play.  I think there is potential for the Brewers but I have to put them in the basement and refer to the Big Tuna "You are what your record says you are."

I hope it stays close between all of them as play continues!

Happy Holidays!

Very nice initial post Libertatem... as a long ago Liberty League guy (RPI when it was in the ICAC), I find it interesting to read an objective (I hope) account of what is going on out east... keep up the good work...+1
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 08, 2017, 10:52:15 PM
T-Breds were up 4 at halftime, but in the 2nd half Middlebury showed why they're currently #2 in the nation with 57 points on 58 percent field goal shooting after intermission to win by 15. Tremendous night for Skidmore freshman Noah Meren off the bench with 19 points and 8 boards on 6-9 from the floor, 5-6 from the line in 27 minutes. Still the odds-on LL favorites in my eyes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 09, 2017, 09:43:15 AM

Skidmore will be a lot better in March.  You could see some growing pains, incorporating some of the new players in to the mix.  This was the first real test they faced this year and you could see a bit of nerves and sloppy play.  If Skidmore has just been smarter with passes and hit open layups, it would've been tight down the stretch.  I've been voting Skidmore in or near the Top 10 recently and I think there's no reason to drop them after that game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 13, 2017, 12:51:05 PM
big-time win for the Bombers on the road against #15 Rochester. Riley Thompson hit a three with 1.7 seconds left to break a tie and give IC the 71-68 win. He finished with 19 points on 5-8 three-point shooting as Ithaca overcame 20 turnovers to win its sixth in a row.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on December 13, 2017, 05:57:48 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 13, 2017, 12:51:05 PM
big-time win for the Bombers on the road against #15 Rochester. Riley Thompson hit a three with 1.7 seconds left to break a tie and give IC the 71-68 win. He finished with 19 points on 5-8 three-point shooting as Ithaca overcame 20 turnovers to win its sixth in a row.
Nice win for the Bombers..so Rochester is 1-2 against the LL with the other win by Hobart and a loss by Union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bengalsrule on December 13, 2017, 09:20:18 PM
Quote from: Bartman on December 13, 2017, 05:57:48 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 13, 2017, 12:51:05 PM
big-time win for the Bombers on the road against #15 Rochester. Riley Thompson hit a three with 1.7 seconds left to break a tie and give IC the 71-68 win. He finished with 19 points on 5-8 three-point shooting as Ithaca overcame 20 turnovers to win its sixth in a row.
Nice win for the Bombers..so Rochester is 1-2 against the LL with the other win by Hobart and a loss by Union.

Keep up the good work LL!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 14, 2017, 11:28:54 AM
not basketball related but holy crap, 31-year old RIT grad donates $50 million to his alma mater...boy don't I feel like a worthless bum now being 35 and not exactly having that net worth, haha. And look, the "parent's basement" dumb cliche was actually true in this case!

http://13wham.com/news/local/rit-graduate
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on December 14, 2017, 02:24:46 PM
Rochester opened the season with a win over Bard, so the Yellowjackets are actually 2-2 against the LL, with a game against RIT coming up on Jan. 2.

I saw that RIT story. Incredible. I wonder if the donor was specific about how he wants the money spent. Perhaps Athletics will get a piece of the pie.

The LL looks like Hobart, Skidmore, then everyone else. I was at the Ithaca-Bard game, which the Bombers won in OT. Ithaca is a playoff team for sure.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 14, 2017, 03:00:47 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on December 14, 2017, 02:24:46 PM
Rochester opened the season with a win over Bard, so the Yellowjackets are actually 2-2 against the LL, with a game against RIT coming up on Jan. 2.

I saw that RIT story. Incredible. I wonder if the donor was specific about how he wants the money spent. Perhaps Athletics will get a piece of the pie.

The LL looks like Hobart, Skidmore, then everyone else. I was at the Ithaca-Bard game, which the Bombers won in OT. Ithaca is a playoff team for sure.

The story indicated he earmarked 30 million for some sort of entrepreneurship program/a new library and the other 20 million for the school of computer/information sciences. Pffft, academics. Alabama would have used the money for a 300-foot tall statue of Bear Bryant made out of diamonds.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 16, 2017, 05:21:14 PM
If Chris Downs doesn't stop playing zone I'm not sure I'm going to watch another game the rest of the season.  I am not going to watch this team give up 15 three pointers every single game.  Enough already.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 16, 2017, 05:32:19 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 16, 2017, 05:21:14 PM
If Chris Downs doesn't stop playing zone I'm not sure I'm going to watch another game the rest of the season.  I am not going to watch this team give up 15 three pointers every single game.  Enough already.

St. Lawrence has bigger problems than that as they have just lost their leading scorer and rebounder for the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 16, 2017, 05:41:01 PM
Quote from: magicman on December 16, 2017, 05:32:19 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 16, 2017, 05:21:14 PM
If Chris Downs doesn't stop playing zone I'm not sure I'm going to watch another game the rest of the season.  I am not going to watch this team give up 15 three pointers every single game.  Enough already.

St. Lawrence has bigger problems than that as they have just lost their leading scorer and rebounder for the season.

No s***, but that's not my point here.  Season was a dud with Riley anyways, but now this is just ridiculous to the point of parody.  As an alum I've earned the right to be critical.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 27, 2017, 01:50:32 PM
Quote from: magicman on December 16, 2017, 05:32:19 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 16, 2017, 05:21:14 PM
If Chris Downs doesn't stop playing zone I'm not sure I'm going to watch another game the rest of the season.  I am not going to watch this team give up 15 three pointers every single game.  Enough already.

St. Lawrence has bigger problems than that as they have just lost their leading scorer and rebounder for the season.

Is he going to try to get a medical redshirt?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on December 27, 2017, 02:32:25 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 16, 2017, 05:41:01 PM
Quote from: magicman on December 16, 2017, 05:32:19 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 16, 2017, 05:21:14 PM
If Chris Downs doesn't stop playing zone I'm not sure I'm going to watch another game the rest of the season.  I am not going to watch this team give up 15 three pointers every single game.  Enough already.

St. Lawrence has bigger problems than that as they have just lost their leading scorer and rebounder for the season.

No s***, but that's not my point here.  Season was a dud with Riley anyways, but now this is just ridiculous to the point of parody.  As an alum I've earned the right to be critical.

Bring Back Paul Evans... he brought in good players.... plus he knew how to win up there... keep those North Country officials in your back pocket!!    ;D ;D ;D  (totally in jest)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 27, 2017, 07:43:26 PM
I haven't heard if he's going to red shirt or not.  I wouldn't be surprised if he did.  We had a really good soccer player break his leg 2 years ago and he red shirted and finished up his last season this fall.  I'm not sure what Naclerio is studying though, there are only a few graduate programs at SLU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on December 28, 2017, 02:27:01 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on December 27, 2017, 01:50:32 PM
Quote from: magicman on December 16, 2017, 05:32:19 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 16, 2017, 05:21:14 PM
If Chris Downs doesn't stop playing zone I'm not sure I'm going to watch another game the rest of the season.  I am not going to watch this team give up 15 three pointers every single game.  Enough already.

St. Lawrence has bigger problems than that as they have just lost their leading scorer and rebounder for the season.

Is he going to try to get a medical redshirt?

Yes, I heard from a reliable source that he is going to get a medical redshirt and come back for 1 more year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 04, 2018, 05:37:48 PM
The holidays brought us many presents in Division III basketball. From upsets to impressive performances, many teams made an impression. As a result, there is plenty to recap as Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) returns to the air after the holiday break.

Join Dave as he talks to guests around the country and recaps an incredible few weeks - or tries to recap. From an assistant coach who made a life saving decision, a women's coach who has been fighting cancer without missing time with his team, to coaches around the country who have teams that have many wondering ... just how good are they?

With the midseason return of Hoopsville comes with it some of the more structured aspects of the show. For starters, Thursday nights are dedicated primarily to the East, Mid-Atlantic, Great Lakes, and West Regions for guests. Tonight also sees the season debut of the "WBCA Center Court" which is a segment that allows viewers to learn more about coaches and what they are involved in outside of basketball.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE starting at 7pm ET right here: http://bit.ly/2CoVJhv.

You can also send your questions to the show and have them featured on the Hoopsville Mailbag segment. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com.

Guests include (in order of appearance):
- Justin Smith, Dubuque women's assistant coach
- Brian Newhall, Occidental men's coach
- Guy Rancourt, No. 6 Lycoming men's coach
- Matt Dempsey, Merchant Marine women's coach (WBCA Center Court)
- Jeff Hans, No. 8 Thomas More women's coach
- Joe Burke, Skidmore men's coach

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
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Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 05, 2018, 08:29:26 PM
Downs is KILLING me.  If he doesn't get out of the zone the team is not going to win a single game the rest of the season.  Bard has already made 8 three's and it's not even the end of the first half. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 05, 2018, 08:35:56 PM
Quote from: stlawus on January 05, 2018, 08:29:26 PM
Downs is KILLING me.  If he doesn't get out of the zone the team is not going to win a single game the rest of the season.  Bard has already made 8 three's and it's not even the end of the first half.

Maybe he knows if they play man it will be even worse? Who knows. I know a lot of coaches who tell me they play zone primarily for two reasons - they are really, really good at it (i.e. Syracuse in DI and some others in DIII) ... or their team is incapable of playing good man. That last one for a lot of reasons: match-up issues, size problems, rebounding disadvantages, speed issues, IQ shortfalls, etc.

I don't know why Downs is playing zone, but I usually lean on the coach knowing a lot more than the rest of us about their squad to stick with it.

BTW - if a team is going to shoot that well against the zone, so be it. At least, that is what some coaches would say. They want you to shoot and hope you won't stay hot all game. Kind of like an offense predicated on threes... live by, die by.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 05, 2018, 09:23:25 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 05, 2018, 08:35:56 PM
Quote from: stlawus on January 05, 2018, 08:29:26 PM
Downs is KILLING me.  If he doesn't get out of the zone the team is not going to win a single game the rest of the season.  Bard has already made 8 three's and it's not even the end of the first half.

Maybe he knows if they play man it will be even worse? Who knows. I know a lot of coaches who tell me they play zone primarily for two reasons - they are really, really good at it (i.e. Syracuse in DI and some others in DIII) ... or their team is incapable of playing good man. That last one for a lot of reasons: match-up issues, size problems, rebounding disadvantages, speed issues, IQ shortfalls, etc.

I don't know why Downs is playing zone, but I usually lean on the coach knowing a lot more than the rest of us about their squad to stick with it.

BTW - if a team is going to shoot that well against the zone, so be it. At least, that is what some coaches would say. They want you to shoot and hope you won't stay hot all game. Kind of like an offense predicated on threes... live by, die by.

The issue is they are dying by it.  They are giving up at least 10 three's a game.  I'm not sure there's much to lose at this point.  I never intended to make the implication I knew more than downs, but as an alum and fan of the program it is incredibly hard to watch the same thing every game. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 05, 2018, 09:27:07 PM
I understand the frustration... I just contend that maybe Downs knows that if they go to man, 10 threes will be the least of their problems.

I am totally guessing... just thinking through what might be going on per conversations I've had with coaches. It is interesting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 06, 2018, 05:49:57 PM
Two solid Statesmen road wins against RIT and Ithaca this weekend , they are looking strong for the LL Winter run.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Libertatem Foederis on January 07, 2018, 02:13:05 PM
Liberty League Power Ranking (Week 2)


1. Skidmore : (8-2 Overall & 4-0 in League, Movement: - ) A little shaky , but held on to the #1 spot in the LL.The margin of victory in league is incredible (18.3 PPG) .
2. Hobart : (8-3 Overall & 3-1 in League, Movement: - ) Playing well, and in my opinion treading towards # 1 spot, & perhaps should be a 1B, in this power ranking.
3. Ithaca : (8-3 Overall & 3-1 in League, Movement: - ) Coming into the LL and showing they are top shelf material. Leading the league in scoring (82.3 PPG).
4. RIT : (5-6 Overall & 3-1 in League, Movement: - ) Proving to be a tough defensive team & winning games that way.allowing 2nd fewest PPG (68.3) in the league and 2nd best Def. FG % (39.9%).
5. Union : (4-5 Overall & 1-3 in League, Movement: +1 ) I think they are a "sneaky" 5 spot @ the moment, playing good teams tough.Some could make the agreement they are as high as 4th in the league & i would listen.
6. RPI : (7-4 Overall & 2-2 in League, Movement: -1 ) Middle of the pack @ the moment, 2-0 @ home & 0-2 on the road, 3 home games coming up & a big test on Tuesday with Hobart to see if they below in the conversation with the top tier teams.
7. Bard : (4-7 Overall & 2-2 in League, Movement: +2 ) The raptors are on the move!  Played teams really tough in non-conference look to be a handful for teams and if they maintain injury free could be knocking on the door of the playoffs all season.
8. St. Lawrence : (3-8 Overall & 1-3 in League, Movement: -1) Going to seriously miss 18/8 a game from Naclerio.having said that if anyone can figure it out Coach Downs & 20+ years @ SLU can figure it out.it would be a hell of a season if they can make the 6 spot & the playoffs.
9. Vassar : (2-9 Overall 1-3 in League, Movement: +1 ) Tough schedule paying off and on an upward trend.
10. Clarkson : (4-7 Overall & 0-4 in League, Movement: -2 ) Tough start to league play, having said that they have been on the road the whole time and if they get back home (3-2) perhaps they can salvage the season.

Not a lot of changes for me @ the top, Union might seem high for some but they beat Hobart & took Skidmore to TO on the road, that carries weight for me.  It will be interesting to see the new travel schedule play out, some teams had schedules this weekend that they have never had to deal with before. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on January 08, 2018, 09:26:27 PM
My compliments on your thorough analysis. You are a very welcome addition to this board! :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 09, 2018, 09:41:40 PM
Whoa. Vassar just beat Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 09, 2018, 09:46:41 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on January 09, 2018, 09:41:40 PM
Whoa. Vassar just beat Skidmore.

That is an absolute stunner, and combined with wins tonight by Hobart over RPI and Ithaca over RIT we have a 3-way tie at the top of the LL nearly one third of the way through the conference season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 09, 2018, 09:52:54 PM
With the loss tonight against Clarkson SLU has now given up 132 threes in 12 games.  By all means, continue to play zone.   Nice win for the Brewers, I thought for sure they were going to blow us out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2018, 11:23:20 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 09, 2018, 09:46:41 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on January 09, 2018, 09:41:40 PM
Whoa. Vassar just beat Skidmore.

That is an absolute stunner, and combined with wins tonight by Hobart over RPI and Ithaca over RIT we have a 3-way tie at the top of the LL nearly one third of the way through the conference season.

It looks like they pulled a late-career Kobe on the Thoroughbreds.  Rupkus took every shot he wanted - 32 points in a loss.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: VCFan05 on January 11, 2018, 05:17:11 PM
Hello all, first time poster on this board, been reading for years...

About the Liberty League, I find the parity in the League this year to be quite stunning. Many probably didn't see Ithaca being where they are tied for the conference lead, but here we are. Having seen every team play this season except for RIT, I do think that the overall depth of the conference is the best it's ever been despite the possible absence of a lead dog.

It's pretty obvious also that a team like Vassar is better than their 3-9 record, having played a tough non-league schedule. Their metrics actually have them around a .500 team in expected win percentage, teams just can't continue to shoot the percentages they were against them early in the year. I'd except them to continue to compete for a spot in the conference tournament, especially with three freshmen getting more and more minutes.

The team though I find the most interesting is Bard. Like Vassar, they didn't mess around out of conference play, losing to Trinity big, but losing close games to TCNJ and Hamilton. This team is fast, they play a fun style of basketball and they are very young. If the Raptors can shoot the ball consistently going forward (just .398 right now as a team), they will be tough because they defend the perimeter well and that leads to run outs, and as Sportscenter saw last week, momentum changing dunks.

I still think things will be end up Skid-Hobart at the top, but the next four spots are very much up for grabs. The thing I find weird also, what is with the scheduling? Skidmore is currently on a seven-game conference road trip? What is that about? Guess it evens out with a equally-nice homestand.

Enjoy the weekend of games, looking forward to seeing that Bard-Hobart game, and Ithaca's first trip to North Country.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 13, 2018, 09:28:51 AM
Welcome to the boards, sort of. I'm sure the regulars here would love your continuing input.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: VCFan05 on January 13, 2018, 11:33:36 AM
Thanks Greek! Kinda missed on the Bard game, huh?

This League never ceases to amaze, just never know what you're going to get. Skidmore and Hobart today in Geneva, where visiting jump shots go to die. We'll see if the T-Breds can pull out of this slump, using their overtime win last night to get them going into today's huge game.

Ithaca just continues to roll on, and Union gutted out a win at Clarkson. Weckworth was always a nice complementary piece for Murphy at Union, but he's showing he can be a serious lead guard. He's fun to watch, and even tougher to play against.

And Vassar...down 15 at RPI with less than 7 to play and pulled it out on a late three from Tebay. Allowed just three points over the last 7 minutes, primarily thanks to head coach BJ Dunne switching to a zone. It totally threw the Engineers out of whack, allowing for a comeback. Freshmen are coming along, and if they win today at RIT you'll be in the top four.

Bard-RPI, who knows at this point, right?

Excited about another day of Liberty League hoops.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 13, 2018, 11:33:09 PM
I don't know what's going on with the Liberty League website tonight, they have the Vassar-RIT winner wrong with a wrong score and the Skidmore-Hobart score wrong. Those were actually the scores from the women's games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 14, 2018, 07:02:00 AM
Hobart dominated Skidmore at home last night 89-74, with epic 30 point game from Jamal Lucas. Hobart offense was also well balanced with solid efforts from Dougherty,Dan M and Lescoe. Skidmore is very talented but Hobart was relentless and pushed the ball all night. With Ithaca loss Statesmen in sole possession of first. Long way to go in the season, so celebration should be brief.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 14, 2018, 09:15:57 AM
Liberty League provides the definition of parity in 2017-18. Who the stronger teams are is obvious, but clearly anyone can beat anyone this season.
(Conference records)
Hobart (6-1) with a loss to Union (3-3)
Skidmore (5-2) with losses to Vassar (3-4) and Hobart
Ithaca (5-2) with losses to Hobart and Clarkson (2-5)
RIT (4-3) with losses only to the top 3 (Hobart, Skidmore, Ithaca)
Union (3-3) with a win over Hobart
RPI (3-4) with wins only vs. bottom three
Vassar (3-4) with wins over Skidmore and RPI
Bard (2-4) with wins over Clarkson and SLU
Clarkson (2-5) with wins over Ithaca and SLU
SLU (1-6) with a win over Vassar

The eye test says Hobart is playing better than anyone right now, but nobody would want to sign up to play Skidmore or Ithaca in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Libertatem Foederis on January 14, 2018, 02:17:27 PM
Liberty League Power Ranking (Week 3)
1. Hobart (11-3 Overall , 6-1 in League, Movement +1) : 3-0 this week and crushed everyone, average margin of victory this week was 22 pts! 
2. Ithaca (10-4 Overall , 5-2 in League, Movement +1) : A bad lose to Clarkson, but I still have them moving up going 2-1 this week and Skidmore dropping.
3. Skidmore (9-4 Overall , 5-2 in League, Movement -2) : Skidmore is in a funk, going 1-2 this week barely. easily could have been 0-3
4. Union (7-5 Overall, 3-3 in League, Movement +1) : 2-0 in the north country this week. has not played a game @ home since Dec. 11th & won't until Jan. 19th.  having said that they are 3-2 on this road trip and trending upward.
5. RIT (6-8 Overall, 4-3 in League, Movement -1) : 1-2 this week, playing some tough teams & nearly going 3-0 for the week with a 1 point lose to Skidmore.  leads the league with Overtime games (3), I feel this experience could really pay off later in the year.
6. Vassar (4-10 Overall , 3-4 in League , Movement: +3) : 2-1 with a huge win over Skidmore and following that up with a W over RPI, the biggest mover of the league. The hardest team for me to gauge where they should be on this list.
7. RPI (8-6 Overall , 3-4 in League , Movement: -1) : snapped a 5 game skid with a W of Bard this weekend. a really tough lose to Vassar @ home this weekend.  Up 15 points with 6 & 1/2 to go in the game and lost by 3.  Vassar goes on a 21-3 run to win the game.
8. Clarkson (6-8 Overall, 2-5 in League, Movement: +2) : Clarkson got back home & went 2-1 this week, nearly 3-0 w/ the OT lose to Union. They are home for the rest of the month so they could be a out for Jan.
9. Bard (4-9 Overall, 2-4 in League, Movement: -2) : dropped 2 games this week. They are last in the league shooting the ball (36.1%) & this weekend they shot 34% vs RPI & 33% vs Hobart
10. St. Lawrence (3-11 Overall, 1-6 in League, Movement: -2) : 0-3 this week, & wasn't very competitive any of the games with exception to the Union game.

Really tough power ranking to handicap this week, a lot of movement.  If it happens to continue like this it will be a fun next 2 months! I see the league in 3 tiers , #1 : 1-3 (Hobart, Ithaca, Skidmore) @ the moment I think they are in a group by themselves.  #2 4-6 (Union, RIT , Vassar) not a lot separating them & Vassar is on the move we'll see if they can maintain it.  #3 7-10 (RPI, Clarkson, Bard , SLU) I think RPI is the best of this group, I think Vassar is the key for them to either move up or stay.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: VCFan05 on January 15, 2018, 09:35:51 AM
Great rankings!!

After this weekend, it would appear that Hobart is the best team in the conference right now. Their ability to score in so many different ways, and the length that they have on the wings allow them to pretty much dictate a lot during games.

There are so many teams in this conference that I'm just not sure about. RPI gives up a 15-point lead with seven minutes to go at home to Vassar, and then RIT comes back from down seven with six to play to beat Vassar at home. To be honest, I watched some of that second half, and Vassar looked tired at the end of the game. Having to play at RPI, and then travel to RIT the next day? Yikes.

Ithaca going 1-1 in North Country isn't bad for their first trip there, it's a tough one. Union though, not a problem for them, who continue to fend off the "They lost everyone" argument coming into the year. Clarkson, I'm a big fan of Higgins. He is a very good player, and can score a ton of ways. When they have him and Canary on the floor together, they can be tough to stop.

Big weekend coming up around the middle of the standings, and things are sure to shake up after Friday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 15, 2018, 01:28:46 PM
Libertatem,
     Thanks for your rankings and perspective. This should be an interesting race and very interesting tournament at the end of the season. As a Hobart fan , I am very happy with Coach Sweeney and the team chemistry this year....we will see if they can maintain the current pace. Having seen both Skidmore and Ithaca live, these are talented D3 squads and grouping them as the top LL tier makes sense.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 16, 2018, 12:23:01 PM
I thought Hobart might get some points in the Top25 poll, but not even a sniff. However Rochester is No. 25 with the same 11-3 record and Hobart beat them h2h...oh well, winning the LL should really be the focus for now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 16, 2018, 09:54:38 PM
Bard 83, Union 81 F
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 17, 2018, 04:38:01 PM
Love the new Vassar posters -- welcome, folks!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: VCFan05 on January 19, 2018, 10:25:13 AM
Another big weekend of Liberty League hoops is upon us! Wild game at Bard Tuesday, neither team really shot it well but the pace of that game according to the box score looks dizzying!

Looking at the schedule of games, I think Friday night's games to watch are Skidmore at Bard and the tilt in Ithaca. RPI needs the game more than Ithaca, and they match up pretty well with the Bombers and IC is just 3-3 in its last six games. Bard knocked off Skidmore last year at home, so you'd think that the T-Breds would like some revenge. That game is going to be fun to watch I'm sure, who's got the stopwatch on seconds per possession, I'm going under 12 for each team. Rogers is fun to watch, here's wondering if the Raptors' length gives the Rupper some problems. Probably not, he's so good. Vassar and Union could be an exciting one too, Union back at home for the first time since December 11.

Saturday, Ithaca and Skidmore obviously looks like the best game, but I'll be watching Vassar-Bard. Locally rivalry which has meant more to Bard recently, but this game has serious playoff implications on it. Contrasting styles, let's see which one wins out. Tough trip to North Country for Hobart and RIT, splits up North are always welcomed especially with CU starting to put it together.

Enjoy everyone!

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 19, 2018, 10:39:54 AM
Quote from: VCFan05 on January 19, 2018, 10:25:13 AM
Another big weekend of Liberty League hoops is upon us! Wild game at Bard Tuesday, neither team really shot it well but the pace of that game according to the box score looks dizzying!

Looking at the schedule of games, I think Friday night's games to watch are Skidmore at Bard and the tilt in Ithaca. RPI needs the game more than Ithaca, and they match up pretty well with the Bombers and IC is just 3-3 in its last six games. Bard knocked off Skidmore last year at home, so you'd think that the T-Breds would like some revenge. That game is going to be fun to watch I'm sure, who's got the stopwatch on seconds per possession, I'm going under 12 for each team. Rogers is fun to watch, here's wondering if the Raptors' length gives the Rupper some problems. Probably not, he's so good. Vassar and Union could be an exciting one too, Union back at home for the first time since December 11.

Saturday, Ithaca and Skidmore obviously looks like the best game, but I'll be watching Vassar-Bard. Locally rivalry which has meant more to Bard recently, but this game has serious playoff implications on it. Contrasting styles, let's see which one wins out. Tough trip to North Country for Hobart and RIT, splits up North are always welcomed especially with CU starting to put it together.

Enjoy everyone!
VCFan.....+k for your updates
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 19, 2018, 10:10:30 PM
Bard 63, Skidmore 58 F
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 20, 2018, 11:01:39 AM
Very impressive win by Bard, especially clawing back after Skidmore built a decent lead....beware of Bard
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 20, 2018, 12:42:29 PM
Quote from: Bartman on January 20, 2018, 11:01:39 AM
Very impressive win by Bard, especially clawing back after Skidmore built a decent lead....beware of Bard

(Giant spit take for comedic effect)

Welcome back to LL Thunderdome, gang.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 20, 2018, 05:47:54 PM
Vassar 73, Bard 67 F
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Libertatem Foederis on January 21, 2018, 11:45:49 AM
Liberty League Power Rankings (Week 4)

1. Hobart : (13-3 Overall & 8-1 in League, Movement: - ) 2-0 this weekend in the north country, Best Win: @ Ithaca by 10 , Worst Lose: @ Union by 5.  1/2 half thru the league & average margin of W by 13.3 PPG, clearly a cut above the rest.
2. Ithaca : (12-4 Overall & 7-2 in League, Movement: - ) 2-0 this weekend @ home, Best Win: RIT by 16 , Worst lose: @ Clarkson by 13.Have won 4 of their last 5 and probably kicking themselves for dropping one against Clarkson.This Friday they get another shot @ the Statesmen & it should be a good one!
3. RIT : (8-8 Overall & 6-3 in League, Movement: +2 ) 2-0 this weekend in the north country, Best Win: @ Union by 3 Worst Lose: Skidmore by 1 in OT.  The Tigers have sneaked up to the 3 spot, looking at their results with a workman type manner beating the teams they should, and doing it in a different way then years past with a much slower pace. 
4. Union : (9-6 Overall & 5-4 in League, Movement: - ) 2-1 this week, Best Win: Hobart by 5 & Worst Lose: @ Bard by 2.  The Dutchman have won 5 of their last 6 & have a testing schedule ahead of them next weekend.  (Skidmore & Ithaca Both Home)
5. Vassar : (5-11 Overall & 4-5 in League, Movement: +1 ) 1-1 this weekend on the road, Best Win: @ Bard by 7 & Worst Lose: SLU by 1.  If the Brewers are going to make a run the time is now, next 3 games will be against the bottom half of the league going 3-0 will go a long way to making the conference tournament.
6. Bard : (6-10 Overall & 4-5 in League, Movement: +3 ) 2-1 this week @ home.  Best Win: Union by 2 Worst Lose: @ RPI by 5.  I mentioned last week how poorly Bard has been shooting, taking a snap shot of their last 3 games: Union (W) 47% , Skidmore (W) 33% , Vassar (L) 39% .  its not perfect but its an improvement. 
7. Skidmore : (9-6 Overall & 5-4 in League, Movement: -5 ) 0-2 this weekend on the road.  Best Win: Union by 11 in OT Worse Lose: @ Vassar by 8.  The spiral continues with no end in sight, taking a snapshot of their last 3 games they can't score like they have been (67.6 PPG) & having trouble getting stops (78.6 PPG).  shuffling down 5 spots is a lot, but i think i was perhaps giving them the benefit of the doubt the past few weeks that they could turn this around (which they very well may with the talent they have) and ranking them higher than i should.
8. RPI : (8-8 Overall & 3-6 in League, Movement: -1 ) 0-2 this weekend on the road. Best Win: Bard by 5 Worse Lose: @ Skidmore by 20.  This is quite a skid for the Engineers 1-7 in their last 8.  I don't see it getting much better until their start scoring more 70+ points a night or holding teams down in the 50's.
9. Clarkson : (6-10 Overall & 2-7 in League, Movement: -1 ) 0-2 this weekend @ home: Best Win: Ithaca by 13 Worst Lose: RPI by 11.  The Golden Knights aren't dead yet!  I give them a sliver of hope here in the 2nd half 8 wins (6 more) in conference might get you that 6th spot in the tourney.
10. St. Lawrence : (3-13 Overall & 1-8 in League, Movement: - ) 0-2 this weekend @ Home, Best Win: @ Vassar by 1 Worst Lose: @ Clarkson by 28.  I don't foresee the Saints pulling out of this, It appears it will be small , moral victories from this point further and hoping that guys continue to develop and improve for next year.

Halfway thru league play I thought it would be a good time to do Best/Worst look.  I feel confident with the top 2 & the bottom 2, 3 thru 8 I think anything can happen in the next 4 weekends. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 21, 2018, 02:51:28 PM
L-F..thanks for your analysis and updates. I am surprised by the Skidmore slump, they seem to have become deflated after the loss to Hobart because they were really up for the game and were totally engaged and had high energy. I watched pieces of the losses this weekend and they have lost focus and the energy level is down. Looking forward to the Hobart basketball alumni weekend and especially the Ithaca game. A big game and critical for both teams and the eventual #1 seed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: VCFan05 on January 22, 2018, 11:11:19 AM
Another frantic weekend of LL hoops, but nothing really crazy happened in terms of results with the possible exception of the Skidmore-Bard game.

It seems to me at this point of the season that teams are sorting themselves out, and things are getting somewhat predictable. For instance, when Bard shoots well, they normally win. When Vassar gives up less than 68 points, they're 4-1 in conference play. The team I'm continually impressed by is Union, Murphy does a very nice job with that program. As you'd expect from an alum, he takes a lot of pride in what they do there, and they play very tough. 2nd in PPG allowed and 3rd in PPG offensively will definitely get you more wins than not. They continue to surprise everyone, except maybe themselves.

The second half through should have some twists and turns, but looking at the upcoming schedules you have to like Skidmore to get back into the rhythm of things. They don't leave the Capital region for their next seven games, playing at Union and RPI this weekend before five straight home games in Williamson. They could easily win their next seven games and then this little hiccup would be totally forgotten. What's not good for the League is that Hobart is in Bristol for 7 of the final 9 games this year. Hard to imagine them not hosting the tourney this year.

No mid-week action this week, so enjoy another weekend coming up. Game to watch for sure is Ithaca-Hobart Friday night, like to see how Thompson plays against the length on the wings of Hobart. Sneaky game to watch is Union-Skidmore in Viniar, can Weckworth get some help like this weekend when King was great or will he have to take 26 shots like he did in a loss at Bard? VC takes the tough trip to the tundra to battle SLU and CU, and RIT with a tough road swing at RPI and then having to huff it back to Geneva to take on either a confident or pissed off Hobart after Friday's game vs. IC.

Enjoy everyone!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on January 23, 2018, 12:39:01 PM
Nice to see my alma mater off to such a good start.

Hobart is billing this weekend as an "Alumni" one, so it sounds like many past Statesmen MBB players will be in Bristol Gym to cheer on this year's team. IC and HOB have impressive win streaks going on at the moment. One of them will be broken Friday night.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 25, 2018, 02:50:31 PM
Still no votes in the Top 25 for the streaking Statesmen. Perhaps a win over Ithaca will change that, or if Ithaca wins maybe they are deserving....need some LL representation
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 25, 2018, 04:44:15 PM
Believe it or not... I think it is hard for teams to be noticed this year. There are a TON of teams with similiar, initial, resumes. Two to three losses and not much else that jumps out. I know last week I spent considerable time going around to see if I had missed anyone because suddenly teams who weren't part of the conversation are entering it thanks to being steady and others not being.

Hobart's resume is okay... not great. The win over SJF in any of the last few years would stand out more than this year. The win over Rochester is nice, but coming in early November I am not sure how voters are reading into that now. The losses to Brockport and Union won't help sway any voters, despite Brocpkport having a decent record (plenty of questions about how good is the SUNYAC this year). The loss to RMC isn't bad, but it is another loss to a team that if Hobart is a Top 25 team they should have beaten. Otherwise, nothing else tells us anything.

Sure a win over Ithaca would help.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 27, 2018, 08:16:05 AM
Nice win 99-89 by Statesmen over  the Bombers last night, actually were up by 17 with 3:57 left. Lucas scores his 1000th and Hobart 50pct shooting and +9 rebounding. Perfect scenario for an RIT upset win tonight  if Hobart celebrates too much.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 28, 2018, 11:28:52 AM
Convincing wins over Ithaca and RIT by Hobart with pretty big crowds this weekend.  Hoping the Statesmen resume getting better than okay and might get noticed. I still think the resume is better than #22 Rochester.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on January 29, 2018, 10:23:14 AM
Pretty sure UofR will drop out after b2b Ls this weekend. Could see the Statesmen crack the Top 25, as 15 wins is significant, but they didn't receive a single vote in the last poll, so it may take them another week or two. All that matters is they can keep this 9 game W streak alive. The schedule is set up favorably. I could see them go into the final regular game vs. Union 21-3, but they'd need to avoid looking ahead.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 29, 2018, 01:09:07 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on January 29, 2018, 10:23:14 AM
Pretty sure UofR will drop out after b2b Ls this weekend. Could see the Statesmen crack the Top 25, as 15 wins is significant, but they didn't receive a single vote in the last poll, so it may take them another week or two. All that matters is they can keep this 9 game W streak alive. The schedule is set up favorably. I could see them go into the final regular game vs. Union 21-3, but they'd need to avoid looking ahead.

The 15-win plateau isn't as great this year as in most years... because a LOT of teams are at that plateau right now... a lot of historically good programs have picked up losses in competitive conferences and lot of programs like Hobart are having better-than-expected/average seasons. As a result... it is a muddled mess to try and really figure out who are Top 25 teams and who aren't right now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 29, 2018, 10:19:42 PM
Looks like even if Hobart wins out the voters don't see them as top 25 as 10 points and 35th overall probably reflects a less competitive view of LL nationally. I guess we need to win conference, then the LL tournament and a couple of wins in NCAA to get to top 25... Whatever, it is an exciting season and I hope we keep winning......Go Bart...a fun team to watch
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 30, 2018, 09:12:38 PM
Quote from: Bartman on January 29, 2018, 10:19:42 PM
Looks like even if Hobart wins out the voters don't see them as top 25 as 10 points and 35th overall probably reflects a less competitive view of LL nationally. I guess we need to win conference, then the LL tournament and a couple of wins in NCAA to get to top 25... Whatever, it is an exciting season and I hope we keep winning......Go Bart...a fun team to watch

Wait... what? How are you extrapolating what here? Hobart has ten points (35th overall isn't a thing, by the way) and you are figuring if they win out they won't be in the Top 25? Do you also know how every other team in the country will perform between now and Feb. 25?

It isn't a vacuum, Bartman. It isn't plug and play. It isn't anywhere close to that simple.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gordonmann on January 30, 2018, 09:52:55 PM
Maybe. The voters cast ballots for Hobart earlier in the year

http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2017-18/week-1

As Dave notes, Hobart's prospects for returning to the poll depend on whether the Statesmen keep winning and what happens to the teams in front of them. So far this season there are plenty of Top 25 votes up for grabs every week on the men's side.

From a larger perspective, Hobart's problem is that its best wins (Rochester and SJF) are over teams that are basically off the national radar and the three losses, while they came early in the season, are to three unranked teams. Often voters ask themselves the questions, "Who's their best win? What are there losses?" Hobart's in a tough situation because no one in the LL provides that high quality win that grabs voters' attention, especially with Skidmore's struggles.

From that perspective, Hobart needs to keep racking up wins to climb the rankings. But the votes will likely be there for a return if the Statesmen do that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 31, 2018, 08:48:08 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 30, 2018, 09:12:38 PM
Quote from: Bartman on January 29, 2018, 10:19:42 PM
Looks like even if Hobart wins out the voters don't see them as top 25 as 10 points and 35th overall probably reflects a less competitive view of LL nationally. I guess we need to win conference, then the LL tournament and a couple of wins in NCAA to get to top 25... Whatever, it is an exciting season and I hope we keep winning......Go Bart...a fun team to watch

Wait... what? How are you extrapolating what here? Hobart has ten points (35th overall isn't a thing, by the way) and you are figuring if they win out they won't be in the Top 25? Do you also know how every other team in the country will perform between now and Feb. 25?

It isn't a vacuum, Bartman. It isn't plug and play. It isn't anywhere close to that simple.
Glad to see my tongue in cheek trolling got some attention. I have an appreciation for the complexity of rating these teams, as  Division 3 is extremely difficult to poll with the limited inter-league play. I am an unapologetic cheerleader for Hobart and the Liberty League in all sports and have fun doing so. So please take my posts in the spirit they are intended. I think the LL has some depth this year as evidenced by the RPI performance against Hobart last night, resulting in a close contest down the stretch, but I do think Hobart is improving and has some great chemistry with a great young coach.  I certainly yield to your broad knowledge of D3 basketball when it comes to the complexity of national rankings, but I will speak up where I think my team/League needs some attention ;). Go Bart!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on January 31, 2018, 09:41:40 AM
Quote from: Bartman on January 31, 2018, 08:48:08 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 30, 2018, 09:12:38 PM
Quote from: Bartman on January 29, 2018, 10:19:42 PM
Looks like even if Hobart wins out the voters don't see them as top 25 as 10 points and 35th overall probably reflects a less competitive view of LL nationally. I guess we need to win conference, then the LL tournament and a couple of wins in NCAA to get to top 25... Whatever, it is an exciting season and I hope we keep winning......Go Bart...a fun team to watch

Wait... what? How are you extrapolating what here? Hobart has ten points (35th overall isn't a thing, by the way) and you are figuring if they win out they won't be in the Top 25? Do you also know how every other team in the country will perform between now and Feb. 25?

It isn't a vacuum, Bartman. It isn't plug and play. It isn't anywhere close to that simple.
Glad to see my tongue in cheek trolling got some attention. I have an appreciation for the complexity of rating these teams, as  Division 3 is extremely difficult to poll with the limited inter-league play. I am an unapologetic cheerleader for Hobart and the Liberty League in all sports and have fun doing so. So please take my posts in the spirit they are intended. I think the LL has some depth this year as evidenced by the RPI performance against Hobart last night, resulting in a close contest down the stretch, but I do think Hobart is improving and has some great chemistry with a great young coach.  I certainly yield to your broad knowledge of D3 basketball when it comes to the complexity of national rankings, but I will speak up where I think my team/League needs some attention ;). Go Bart!

I think one of the complicating factors is that there are far more conferences in basketball (?46) compared to football (?29).  If Hobart was leading the LL in football by 3 games, like the BBall team is, I am sure they would crack the top 25 in football.  Although having two teams from the Centennial Conference (Swarthmore and F&M) seems a little suspect.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 31, 2018, 11:23:26 AM
Why is the Centennial suspect? Swarthmore showed in the last few years they are for real. The Liberty hasn't really shown much on the national stage in several year. The East Region, in general, hasn't shown much. Skidmore has been the only team to carry the torch and they haven't been able to get out of the first weekend for a variety of reasons. The Mid-Atlantic has been far more competitive. Only thing suspect, in my opinion, is F&M as they haven't shown as much strength. They are in the same category as Hobart for me so far... on the radar, but not on my ballot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 31, 2018, 11:45:23 AM
In last 11 years, the Centennial has gone 27-17 in the NCAA playoffs, while the Liberty League has gone 8-14. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Libertatem Foederis on January 31, 2018, 08:11:21 PM
Liberty League Power Ranks (Week 6)
1. Hobart : (15-3 Overall & 10-1 in League, movement: - ) 2-0 this weekend and on a 9 game winning streak. To be cute, they haven't lost a game in 2018!  Complete dominance of the league, ave. margin of victory is 14.5 in league.  aside for injury I think its safe to say they will be playing the final weekend of LL play.
2. Union : (11-6 Overall & 7-4 in League, movement: +2 ) 2-0 this weekend and on a 4 game winning streak as well as winning 7 of their last 8.  Coach Murph has done a great job with this squad and if I recall didn't think the Dutchman got much love in the Pre-season coaches poll.....picked to finish 8th...
3. Ithaca : (12-6 Overall & 7-4 in League, movement: -1 ) 0-2 this weekend, but a tough 0-2 playing @ Hobart & @ Union.  Dropped to 3rd in my rankings but could easily be a 2B team.  Looking at the remainder of Ithaca's schedule , they have a chance to be in the drivers seat with their last 4 being at home starting 2/9 against: Clarkson, SLU , Bard , Vassar.  I would be surprised if they don't finish out strong.
4. RIT : 8-10 Overall & 6-5 in League, movement : -1 ) 0-2 this weekend on the road, both bad loses by 18 to RPI & 29 to Hobart.  only one more road game left of 7, so as long as they take care of business @ home it should be a strong finish for the Tigers.
5. RPI ; (10-8 Overall & 5-6 in League, movement: +3 ) 2-0 this weekend @ home.  The Engineers have been Yo-Yoing all league play.  next 3 are big tests for them (@ Hobart , Union , Ithaca) .  The Top 3 in my opinion, if they can steal 1 game is a stretch. 
6. Clarkson : (8-10 Overall & 4-7 in League, movement: +3 ) 2-0 this weekend.  they have done well @ home going 4-2 this month.  The bad news they are on the road for 5 of their last 7 & their 0-4 on the road in league play.
7. Vassar : (5-13 Overall & 4-7 in League, movement: -2 ) 0-2 this weekend in the North Country & a tough go of it as a whole on this extended road trip. Have played their last 6 games on the road and have gone 2-4.
8. Skidmore : (9-8 Overall & 5-6 in League, movement: -1 ) 0-2 this weekend, and on a bad 5 game losing streak.  it has been a really bad Jan.  Feb. has to be better!
9. Bard : (6-12 Overall & 4-7 in League, movement : -3 ) 0-2 this weekend and have dropped 3 in a row.  doesn't have an easy Feb. ahead with games against Hobart, Ithaca & Union
10. St. Lawrence : (5-13 Overall & 3-8 in League, movement : - ) 2-0 this weekend!! Good for the Saints this weekend! On the road for the next 4, but some life out of Canton!
A little late with this having it be mid-week, but life happens.  A lot of movement again this past weekend, Should be interesting to see how the southern teams respond.  The only thing I'm confident about is the next 2 weekends should be fun to watch and anything can happen!  Enjoy the games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Libertatem Foederis on January 31, 2018, 08:53:57 PM
I wanted to jump in on this Top 25 Discussion, I'm looking at this from a different perspective, non the less worth considering.  The Top 25 in D3, its a fun thing to do, and by all means you want it to reflect the best teams in country.  This is very very hard to do in my opinion with their being so many teams and those teams stretching the spectrum of talent.  The curve of talent is much longer than D-2 or D-1.  Programs with full-time coaches playing programs with part-time coaches, the refs vary from doing only D-3 games to across the board D-1-2-3 to refs that in some areas of the country and primarily doing High School games and picking up a D-3 game on the weekends.  The spectrum is so broad at the D-3 level it makes making a Top 25 incredibly difficult.  At the same time for D-3 basketball junkies this can be really fun and the debate is a good thing.  I'm of the belief that b/c of this board spectrum the Top 25 can carry no real weight in the process for the tournament which is the ultimate goal & then you see what can happen from there.  Its fun to talk about but doesn't mean anything.  When regional committees gather I would be very surprised if the Top 25 ranking ever gets discussed let alone mentioned.  The at-large bids are not being determined by whether a team was ranked or not ranked.   For those that are disappointed that their team haven't cracked the top 25 yet, i'm confident in saying that it won't effect them making the tournament as an at-large if it comes to that. 


A good case in point is the Top 25 ranking the last week of Feb. before the Tournament started last year.  The Final Four consisted of:   Babson was #3, Williams NR , Whitman #1 , & Augustana NR (had just fallen out of the Top 25) .  Thats a really good Top 25 to have 2 ranked in the top 4 and make it, but b/c the spectrum is so large its a hard thing to do.  Its not the end all be all if they aren't in the Top 25, they can still have a very very successful season.


I hope everyone enjoys Feb.  should be fun to watch across all of D-3.


LF



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 31, 2018, 10:57:51 PM
Quote from: Libertatem Foederis on January 31, 2018, 08:53:57 PM
I wanted to jump in on this Top 25 Discussion, I'm looking at this from a different perspective, non the less worth considering.  The Top 25 in D3, its a fun thing to do, and by all means you want it to reflect the best teams in country.  This is very very hard to do in my opinion with their being so many teams and those teams stretching the spectrum of talent.  The curve of talent is much longer than D-2 or D-1.  Programs with full-time coaches playing programs with part-time coaches, the refs vary from doing only D-3 games to across the board D-1-2-3 to refs that in some areas of the country and primarily doing High School games and picking up a D-3 game on the weekends.  The spectrum is so broad at the D-3 level it makes making a Top 25 incredibly difficult.  At the same time for D-3 basketball junkies this can be really fun and the debate is a good thing. I'm of the belief that b/c of this board spectrum the Top 25 can carry no real weight in the process for the tournament which is the ultimate goal & then you see what can happen from there.  Its fun to talk about but doesn't mean anything.  When regional committees gather I would be very surprised if the Top 25 ranking ever gets discussed let alone mentioned.  The at-large bids are not being determined by whether a team was ranked or not ranked.   For those that are disappointed that their team haven't cracked the top 25 yet, i'm confident in saying that it won't effect them making the tournament as an at-large if it comes to that. 


A good case in point is the Top 25 ranking the last week of Feb. before the Tournament started last year.  The Final Four consisted of:   Babson was #3, Williams NR , Whitman #1 , & Augustana NR (had just fallen out of the Top 25) .  Thats a really good Top 25 to have 2 ranked in the top 4 and make it, but b/c the spectrum is so large its a hard thing to do.  Its not the end all be all if they aren't in the Top 25, they can still have a very very successful season.


I hope everyone enjoys Feb.  should be fun to watch across all of D-3.


LF

The Top 25 has NOTHING to do with regional rankings or national committee/selections. It doesn't in DIII men's basketball, women's basketball... or ANY NCAA sport. Even D1 it isn't a criteria factor. No NCAA sponsor tournament (where the NCAA hands out a trophy) does Top 25 polls play a role in ... anything.

The regional advistory committees and the national committee have a very specific items in their primary and secondary criteria that they are to follow. That criteria is very specific and also limited to some degree. Top 25 voters have no limitations or criteria to follow specifically.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Libertatem Foederis on January 31, 2018, 11:11:29 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 31, 2018, 10:57:51 PM
Quote from: Libertatem Foederis on January 31, 2018, 08:53:57 PM
I wanted to jump in on this Top 25 Discussion, I'm looking at this from a different perspective, non the less worth considering.  The Top 25 in D3, its a fun thing to do, and by all means you want it to reflect the best teams in country.  This is very very hard to do in my opinion with their being so many teams and those teams stretching the spectrum of talent.  The curve of talent is much longer than D-2 or D-1.  Programs with full-time coaches playing programs with part-time coaches, the refs vary from doing only D-3 games to across the board D-1-2-3 to refs that in some areas of the country and primarily doing High School games and picking up a D-3 game on the weekends.  The spectrum is so broad at the D-3 level it makes making a Top 25 incredibly difficult.  At the same time for D-3 basketball junkies this can be really fun and the debate is a good thing. I'm of the belief that b/c of this board spectrum the Top 25 can carry no real weight in the process for the tournament which is the ultimate goal & then you see what can happen from there.  Its fun to talk about but doesn't mean anything.  When regional committees gather I would be very surprised if the Top 25 ranking ever gets discussed let alone mentioned.  The at-large bids are not being determined by whether a team was ranked or not ranked.   For those that are disappointed that their team haven't cracked the top 25 yet, i'm confident in saying that it won't effect them making the tournament as an at-large if it comes to that. 


A good case in point is the Top 25 ranking the last week of Feb. before the Tournament started last year.  The Final Four consisted of:   Babson was #3, Williams NR , Whitman #1 , & Augustana NR (had just fallen out of the Top 25) .  Thats a really good Top 25 to have 2 ranked in the top 4 and make it, but b/c the spectrum is so large its a hard thing to do.  Its not the end all be all if they aren't in the Top 25, they can still have a very very successful season.


I hope everyone enjoys Feb.  should be fun to watch across all of D-3.


LF

The Top 25 has NOTHING to do with regional rankings or national committee/selections. It doesn't in DIII men's basketball, women's basketball... or ANY NCAA sport. Even D1 it isn't a criteria factor. No NCAA sponsor tournament (where the NCAA hands out a trophy) does Top 25 polls play a role in ... anything.

The regional advistory committees and the national committee have a very specific items in their primary and secondary criteria that they are to follow. That criteria is very specific and also limited to some degree. Top 25 voters have no limitations or criteria to follow specifically.


D-mac, thank you for chiming in, I think this is really important for fans to be aware of this. The Top 25 is a fun thing, and I'm sure people at D3hoops work hard to make it as accurate as they can.  When the committees start meeting soon this is how the tournament takes shape.


Feb. will be fun, it always is.


LF
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2018, 11:28:21 AM
Just to give everyone a better understanding of the timeline... the regional and national committees have already started meeting.

They conducted mock rankings this week (Wednesday for the national committee; Tuesday for the regional) to be accurate. Next week will be the first official rankings.

We talked to both committee chairs on yesterday's Hoopsville Marathon. You can find when we talked to them and the video broadcast here: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2017-18/marathon

Worth listening to even those who know this stuff from learning it over the years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 05, 2018, 09:14:27 AM
The LL Tourney will be fun this year as all the top teams seem to have ebbed and flowed during the season. Hobart may have a hot hand now but one cool shooting night and anyone in the next group can take advantage. Case in point was Hobart beating Skidmore last year when Skidmore was #1,I am sure they would like to return the favor. Should be fun.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gordonmann on February 05, 2018, 11:23:28 PM
This one goes out to you, Bartman. :)

http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2017-18/week10
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 06, 2018, 07:18:07 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 05, 2018, 11:23:28 PM
This one goes out to you, Bartman. :)

http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2017-18/week10
+K Gordonmann for the alert and What a great surprise! Thanks to the voters for the recognition of the efforts of Coach Sweeney , his staff and the entire team to date.....this ranking is well earned while the early season ranking seemed  a bit premature.....now the rest of the league gets to take a shot at a ranked team and Skidmore gets the first shot on Friday ......looking forward to the competition ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 06, 2018, 10:57:57 AM
Nice recognition for the Statesmen and Coach Sweeney.

Looking like things are headed towards that final regular season game vs. Union for LL tourney seeding, but Hobart can't afford to take their foot off the gas as it's AQ or bust.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 06, 2018, 02:15:59 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on February 06, 2018, 10:57:57 AM
Nice recognition for the Statesmen and Coach Sweeney.

Looking like things are headed towards that final regular season game vs. Union for LL tourney seeding, but Hobart can't afford to take their foot off the gas as it's AQ or bust.
Hopefully we the Statesmen can sew it up before then!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 06, 2018, 02:22:28 PM
The winner of the LL tourney gets the AQ. Hobart could go 21-3 in regular season and not make the tourney if they don't win the tourney.

Wouldn't be surprised if Hobart had to play Union twice (final reg season game and for LL title).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 06, 2018, 02:36:38 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on February 06, 2018, 02:22:28 PM
The winner of the LL tourney gets the AQ. Hobart could go 21-3 in regular season and not make the tourney if they don't win the tourney.

Wouldn't be surprised if Hobart had to play Union twice (final reg season game and for LL title).

To be honest, I would be pretty surprised if Hobart ends up 21-4 or 22-4 and doesn't make the NCAA tournament. They currently have a .535 SOS and their non-conf SOS is a .593. Those are solid numbers. If they only lose in the conference tournament, I don't see any reasons... as of now... they still wouldn't be in the NCAA tournament.

The key is taking care of business between now and the LL tournament.

We will know a bit this week with regional rankings and then know a lot better next week with Week 2's rankings.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 06, 2018, 02:53:40 PM
That's reassuring, I figured there would be Pool C type bids like FB, but I don't really know it as well for MBB.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 06, 2018, 02:57:01 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on February 06, 2018, 02:53:40 PM
That's reassuring, I figured there would be Pool C type bids like FB, but I don't really know it as well for MBB.

Do yourself a favor and lower your stress... don't even think about FB outside of FB. Football has a lot of reasons for tight Pool C consideration. Basketball gets tight as well, but when you have far more teams playing the sport and thus far more at-large opportunities (20+), the discussions are far different. We know, pretty much, who the slam dunk choices will be and they usually encompass half the at-large choices. The rest are tough and challenging to decide, but we understand the process so well that we usually don't miss more than one (we being Hoopsville and D3hoops.com). The process is even different than FB - for example, we don't have the previous tournament experience even a factor for any part of the selections or bracketing. :)

Trust me when I say, we will be talking a lot about the process on Hoopsville and the boards. The multi-regional boards has a Pool C thread where we talk a lot about it. This area has an East Region thread that I think we have talked about the process as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Libertatem Foederis on February 06, 2018, 03:57:54 PM
Liberty League Power Rankings (Week 7)


1. Hobart : (18-3 Overall & 13-1 in League : Movement: - )  3-0 this past week, RPI gave them a test @ home, but other than that it was a breeze week for the statesmen.  I can't overstate that the margin of victory is staggering (+15.9) with the next team being Skidmore @ +3.3 !!
2. Union : (12-7 Overall & 8-5 in League : Movement: - ) 1-1 this past week.  The road ahead looks favorable 3 of the next 5 games @ home and against the bottom of the league.
3. RPI : (12-9 Overall & 7-7 in League : Movement: +2) 2-1 this past week and they clearly handled the test of last week & are on the move! jumping 5 spots in the past 2 weeks.  Going 4-1 against the top part of the league & getting what appears to be some solid support from other than the usual guys.
4. RIT : (9-11 Overall & 7-6 in League) 1-1 this past week, RIT was able to stop the bleeding w/ a win against the Saints, but this year that does not hold as much weight.  A favorable scheduled heading down the stretch with 4 of 5 games @ home and a mix of teams on either end of the talent spectrum.  There is no reason they shouldn't be able to hold things together.
5. Ithaca : (12-8 Overall & 7-6 in League : Movement: -2) 0-2 this past week part of a 0-4 skid. The hard part of the schedule is over, 4 of the next 5 @ home & the 4 opponents are @ the bottom of the league.  Time will tell if they can right the ship in time for the tournament.
6. Skidmore : (11-8 Overall & 7-6 in League : Movement: +2) 2-0 this past week.  The conundrum of the league...  I feel confident in saying they could finish in the 6th spot make the playoffs and win it all....or not make the playoffs... Feb. 9th Hobart comes to town.  Could be a great game, could be a blow out....
7. Clarkson : (9-11 Overall & 5-8 in Conference : Movement: - ) 1-1 this past week.  Of the next 5 games they have beat Ithaca already & SLU, Union had to go to OT to beat them so I'm not counting them out of that that game either.  finishing 8-10 or 9-9 is a possibility and making the playoffs.
8. Vassar : (6-14 Overall & 5-8 in League : Movement: -) 1-1 this past week.  They have their work cut for them, 3 of their last 5 are on the road & against the top of the league.  I think the magic # to make the playoffs is either 8-9 wins to early to tell, but they need to go 3-2 or 4-1 down the stretch to have a chance.
9. Bard : (6-14 Overall & 4-9 in League : Movement: -) 0-2 this past week.  5 game skid, but all tight 1 or 2 possession games, the won't be easy wins for anyone down the stretch.
10. St. Lawrence : (5-15 Overall & 3-10 in League : Movement: -) 0-2 this past week.  If they can get a split this weekend on the road & Bard continues to slide, I'm pulling them out of the basement!


Calmest week to date as far as movement goes in my eyes.  RPI has had a great 2 weeks moving up the board nicely.  The league continues to be in flux, Hobart is the clear #1 & then 2-7 I feel anything can happen!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gordonmann on February 06, 2018, 04:39:25 PM
The Liberty League received almost as many Pool C bids last year as a conference (two) as football offers to everyone combined. That should make you feel better. :)

http://d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2016-17/conference-tournaments/index

By the way, is that username the latin translation of Liberty League? If so, that's really clever.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 06, 2018, 05:53:06 PM
Did I hear Latin?.....who says it is a dead language.....Semper Ubi Sub Ubi(Always where under where...especially under your uniform)......Liberty leaguers possess much ancient knowledge........ego amare Libertatem Foederis basketball!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gordonmann on February 06, 2018, 06:45:45 PM
Ha! Semper Ubi sub ubi!

The only thing I remember from high school Latin.  Well, and I can conjugate girl. Puella, puellae, puellae... :)

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ronk on February 06, 2018, 06:54:18 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on February 06, 2018, 06:45:45 PM
Ha! Semper Ubi sub ubi!

The only thing I remember from high school Latin.  Well, and I can conjugate girl. Puella, puellae, puellae... :)

You may be treading in dangerous water. ::)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 06, 2018, 09:52:24 PM
Wow. Down 2 with 3.7 seconds left at Skidmore, Vassar throws three-quarter court pass to 6-10 guy, he passes off to freshman guard who gets fouled shooting a three at the buzzer. He sinks all three with triple zeroes on the clock. Vassar wins.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 07, 2018, 09:11:48 AM
Great win by Vassar. Can Vassar make it to the playoffs? Which Skidmore team will show up when hosting Hobart on Friday?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 07, 2018, 04:48:49 PM
Congrats to the Statesmen for #1 in first week East Regional Ranking....just keep winning!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 07, 2018, 05:42:09 PM
Men's first regional rankings this season: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 07, 2018, 06:08:38 PM
Takes a little pressure off of having to run the table, but I'd like to see the Statesmen keep their foot on the pedal all the way into the NCAA tourney. Don't think they've ever advanced past the 2nd round. Maybe this is the year, but have to TCB vs. Union once (and probably twice in the LL tourney) to have a shot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2018, 12:23:06 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on February 07, 2018, 06:08:38 PM
Takes a little pressure off of having to run the table, but I'd like to see the Statesmen keep their foot on the pedal all the way into the NCAA tourney. Don't think they've ever advanced past the 2nd round. Maybe this is the year, but have to TCB vs. Union once (and probably twice in the LL tourney) to have a shot.

I wouldn't say it takes the pressure off at all... we see very wild swings between Week 1 and Week 2 regional rankings once vRRO and other factors are taken into account that weren't in Week 1's work. Hobart may not be #1 next week (hypothetical). There is also positioning oneself for hosting one or two weekends of games. Top two ranked in each region usually get that opportunity (outside of other factors that could change that).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 09, 2018, 06:17:12 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2018, 12:23:06 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on February 07, 2018, 06:08:38 PM
Takes a little pressure off of having to run the table, but I'd like to see the Statesmen keep their foot on the pedal all the way into the NCAA tourney. Don't think they've ever advanced past the 2nd round. Maybe this is the year, but have to TCB vs. Union once (and probably twice in the LL tourney) to have a shot.

I wouldn't say it takes the pressure off at all... we see very wild swings between Week 1 and Week 2 regional rankings once vRRO and other factors are taken into account that weren't in Week 1's work. Hobart may not be #1 next week (hypothetical). There is also positioning oneself for hosting one or two weekends of games. Top two ranked in each region usually get that opportunity (outside of other factors that could change that).
I think Hobart  needs to win out to Host in the NCAA, anything less than that will give an excuse to leave them on the road as LL is not a top conference , although maybe a loss to Union and winning the LL Tourney could still give them a host shot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 10, 2018, 07:06:01 AM
If you can't beat em, pull the fire alarm....

One of the more random stories I can remember from any Hobart game over the past 25 some years....

http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2018/2/9/hobart-basketball-25-hobart-tops-skidmore-for-13th-win-in-a-row.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 10, 2018, 03:13:07 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on February 10, 2018, 07:06:01 AM
If you can't beat em, pull the fire alarm....

One of the more random stories I can remember from any Hobart game over the past 25 some years....

http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2018/2/9/hobart-basketball-25-hobart-tops-skidmore-for-13th-win-in-a-row.aspx
I was wondering why the live stats were frozen for quite awhile. Didn't really help Skidmore ::)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 11, 2018, 11:14:39 AM
we could be headed for a complex tiebreaker situation for the #6 seed. Skidmore and RPI are tied, split with each other and have the exact same results vs. all teams in the league.

They each finish with the North Country trip next weekend; if both sweep, get swept, or split with wins against the same opponent, we've got a situation. If they do a reverse split, then the advantage goes to the one that beats Clarkson. I can't find the tiebreaker information on the LL website like the Empire 8 has.

Technically it's a 3-way tie for 5th with Vassar, but the Brewers went 4-0 vs. Skidmore and RPI, so they would currently have nothing to worry about. On the other hand, they finish on the road against Hobart and Ithaca; an 0-2 weekend could very well finish Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Libertatem Foederis on February 11, 2018, 03:34:43 PM
The Last Spot for the Tournament : Skidmore - Vassar - RPI

3 way tie for 5th .  The interesting thing if Im seeing this correctly Vassar has swept Skidmore & RPI this season, so as I see it all they have to do is mirror (2-0 , 1-1 , 0-2)  one of the other 2 teams and they leap them for that spot. 


All 3 teams are on the road.  With Vassar having the toughest schedule (Ithaca & Hobart) .  RPI & Skidmore are in the north country .  Clarkson is playing well in my eyes and could have a great chance to play spoiler for someone. 


LF
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2018, 03:46:46 PM
Quote from: Bartman on February 09, 2018, 06:17:12 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2018, 12:23:06 PM
Quote from: ITH radio on February 07, 2018, 06:08:38 PM
Takes a little pressure off of having to run the table, but I'd like to see the Statesmen keep their foot on the pedal all the way into the NCAA tourney. Don't think they've ever advanced past the 2nd round. Maybe this is the year, but have to TCB vs. Union once (and probably twice in the LL tourney) to have a shot.

I wouldn't say it takes the pressure off at all... we see very wild swings between Week 1 and Week 2 regional rankings once vRRO and other factors are taken into account that weren't in Week 1's work. Hobart may not be #1 next week (hypothetical). There is also positioning oneself for hosting one or two weekends of games. Top two ranked in each region usually get that opportunity (outside of other factors that could change that).
I think Hobart  needs to win out to Host in the NCAA, anything less than that will give an excuse to leave them on the road as LL is not a top conference , although maybe a loss to Union and winning the LL Tourney could still give them a host shot.

The last few years the men's basketball committee has tried hard to give the top two regional ranked teams hosting opportunities no matter what conference they come from.

It doesn't always work for a lot of reasons:
- Dual women's hosts (this year, women have priority the opening weekend)
- Geography challenges
- Extra hosts in unforeseen places (see Texas or Georgia)

They also do have who they consider the Top 16 teams in the country (by NCAA criteria standards) and there are always extenuating circumstances. We will know Hobart's position a bit better this week when we get the Week 2 Regional Rankings.

If they finish ranked in the top two spots, they are in terrific shape to host...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 11, 2018, 09:22:25 PM
Hobart , Plattsburgh State  and Cortland were all victorious this weekend...Rochester continues to drop with a loss to Carnegie Mellon...Hobart should stay on top of the regional rankings this week....hopefully they will stay focused this weekend at home prior to LL Tourney against Vassar and Union.....students and town will be out supporting the winning streak this weekend
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2018, 10:41:24 PM
Using this as an opportunity to remind people, the RACs and national committee start from scratch every week. Just because a team is 1, 2, 3, 4 whatever doesn't mean they start there and then a conversation is had about if they should stay or move up or down. It all starts from scratch.

I suspect Hobart will stay in first as well, but remember also that other data like Results versus Regionally Ranked Opponents (vRRO) is now taken into account and that brings with it a ton of new information. I suspect Rochester will drop, but their SOS always helps them.

I haven't dived deep into the information to really know how the rankings may work out this week.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 13, 2018, 01:16:03 AM
Hobart moves up to #21 in latest poll.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: AUPepBand on February 13, 2018, 08:55:13 PM
Alfred came from behind to edge regionally ranked Nazareth, 89-87 tonight at Galanis Arena. Trailing 81-72 with 2:12 remaining, the Saxons went on a 17-6 run as the Golden Flyers shot only 6-of-12 from the free throw line and failed to score a field goal. The Saxons went 7-of-8 at the line down the stretch and had a key steal on the inbounds pass with 9 seconds remaining after Nick Schmidt had hit four straight free throws to pull AU to within 87-86.

Following a Naz timeout, AU ran an inbounds play that left Schmidt alone in the corner, who nailed the trey to give AU the 89-87 lead with 7 seconds remaining. Naz rushed down the court and threw up an errant shot, AU garnered the rebound and the miracle win was celebrated with fans rushing the court.

The Saxons (16-6, 10-4 E8) have games remaining at Utica (14-9, 9-5 E8) Friday, Feb. 16 and at Hartwick (8-15, 5-9 E8) Saturday, Feb. 17.

The loss snapped a 7-game win streak by Naz (18-7, 13-3) and may have cost the Golden Flyers the #1 seed and home court in the E8 tourney, depending on what Stevens (18-5, 12-2 E8) does against Elmira and Utica.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2018, 02:01:36 PM
Week 2 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 14, 2018, 06:10:14 PM
(https://frinkiac.com/meme/S02E05/593851.jpg?b64lines=IE9oLCBteSBHb2QhIFRoZSBJc290b3Blcwogd2luIGEgZ2FtZSEgVGhlIElzb3RvcGVzCiB3aW4gYSBnYW1lIQ==)

gonna post this over here on the men's board where someone might actually see it, but a genuine congrats to Bard women's basketball and head coach Casi Conelan-Dobbins, who ended a 63-game losing streak Monday night by beating Purchase 63-54 in non-conference action. The Raptors had not won a game since December 12, 2015 at Elms or at home since December 2, 2015 against CCNY.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 14, 2018, 06:40:19 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2018, 02:01:36 PM
Week 2 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-second
Hobart stays No.1 in basketball, and is No.5 in NCAA East RR  for hockey....could be some playoff action in Geneva...just keep winning
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on February 15, 2018, 10:46:40 AM
Quote from: Bartman on February 14, 2018, 06:40:19 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2018, 02:01:36 PM
Week 2 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-second
Hobart stays No.1 in basketball, and is No.5 in NCAA East RR  for hockey....could be some playoff action in Geneva...just keep winning

So I am posting here, rather than one of the "general" sites, there is some very complicated math going on (RPI, SOS, VRRO...).  It looks to me that Hobart needs to win the league tournament to get the NCAA bid.  If they lose during the tournament, despite a high winning percentage, the SOS of the LL will lower their overall ranking.  This seems to me an unfortunate error where computer rankings may not always pass the "smell test".  Regardless, just keep winning and you control your own destiny....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2018, 12:49:36 PM
Oline79 -- while pessimism is always a reasonable course of action, I think Hobart is just fine if they have four D-III losses on Selection Sunday. A .528 SOS isn't awesome, but it's definitely acceptable. Just three games vs. regionally ranked teams, and just one of them a win, might mean that they wait a while before getting selected, but I feel Hobart is in if it loses in the LL tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 15, 2018, 01:50:29 PM
Dave mentioned the same earlier. Statesmen will have a tough task of beating Union 2x in a row (reg season finale and in the tourney), but it's not impossible. This team is on quite a run.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on February 15, 2018, 02:18:16 PM
Does make me feel better, we are going to make the trip to Geneva on Saturday to see the season finale.  It is a double edged sword to have the tournament determine the automatic bid for lower ranked leagues.  It certainly keeps everyone interested to the end, but does damper the regular season champion.  The Ivy League finally succumbed to the pressure last year and instituted a season ending tournament. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2018, 11:11:25 PM
Quote from: Oline79 on February 15, 2018, 02:18:16 PM
Does make me feel better, we are going to make the trip to Geneva on Saturday to see the season finale.  It is a double edged sword to have the tournament determine the automatic bid for lower ranked leagues.  It certainly keeps everyone interested to the end, but does damper the regular season champion.  The Ivy League finally succumbed to the pressure last year and instituted a season ending tournament.

Ha... pressure? Ivy League finally realized how much money was able to be brought in and decided to do a season ending tournament.

BTW - only one league in the entire NCAA doesn't have a playoff and they are in DIII: UAA.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 16, 2018, 10:37:31 AM
As an RPI Basketball Alum, tough for me to get very excited regarding this year's team... to work their way into a decent position for the conference tourney, then to lose to Bard and Vassar... BARD AND VASSAR... are you kidding me??  Well I guess times have changed... a lot...

Well as I look at the RPI site, at least the basketball team has a better record than the hockey team... and as I view videos of games, I must say the new facility looks beautiful, not that the old '87 Gym didn't provide us with some home court advantage....

Guess I'll stick to Midwest and Great Lakes regions hoops.. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on February 16, 2018, 11:01:55 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2018, 11:11:25 PM
Quote from: Oline79 on February 15, 2018, 02:18:16 PM
Does make me feel better, we are going to make the trip to Geneva on Saturday to see the season finale.  It is a double edged sword to have the tournament determine the automatic bid for lower ranked leagues.  It certainly keeps everyone interested to the end, but does damper the regular season champion.  The Ivy League finally succumbed to the pressure last year and instituted a season ending tournament.

Ha... pressure? Ivy League finally realized how much money was able to be brought in and decided to do a season ending tournament.

BTW - only one league in the entire NCAA doesn't have a playoff and they are in DIII: UAA.

Trying to be nice, it was obviously financial pressure!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 16, 2018, 12:58:56 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2018, 12:49:36 PM
Oline79 -- while pessimism is always a reasonable course of action, I think Hobart is just fine if they have four D-III losses on Selection Sunday. A .528 SOS isn't awesome, but it's definitely acceptable. Just three games vs. regionally ranked teams, and just one of them a win, might mean that they wait a while before getting selected, but I feel Hobart is in if it loses in the LL tournament.
This team has the spread of talent to survive the poor shooting performance of one or two of the starters, which I think is why they have weathered the opponent comebacks in a few of the games recently.I have confidence that they should win out and win the tournament, but in basketball you never know because on any given night you can go cold and the Vassar ,as an example, can rain 3 s. This a great team to watch(at least for D3) as they play so well as a team on both offense and defense. Hoping the streak continues this weekend...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 16, 2018, 01:42:48 PM
Quote from: Oline79 on February 16, 2018, 11:01:55 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2018, 11:11:25 PM
Quote from: Oline79 on February 15, 2018, 02:18:16 PM
Does make me feel better, we are going to make the trip to Geneva on Saturday to see the season finale.  It is a double edged sword to have the tournament determine the automatic bid for lower ranked leagues.  It certainly keeps everyone interested to the end, but does damper the regular season champion.  The Ivy League finally succumbed to the pressure last year and instituted a season ending tournament.

Ha... pressure? Ivy League finally realized how much money was able to be brought in and decided to do a season ending tournament.

BTW - only one league in the entire NCAA doesn't have a playoff and they are in DIII: UAA.

Trying to be nice, it was obviously financial pressure!!

+1 -- exactly
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2018, 01:56:30 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 16, 2018, 01:42:48 PM
Quote from: Oline79 on February 16, 2018, 11:01:55 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2018, 11:11:25 PM
Quote from: Oline79 on February 15, 2018, 02:18:16 PM
Does make me feel better, we are going to make the trip to Geneva on Saturday to see the season finale.  It is a double edged sword to have the tournament determine the automatic bid for lower ranked leagues.  It certainly keeps everyone interested to the end, but does damper the regular season champion.  The Ivy League finally succumbed to the pressure last year and instituted a season ending tournament.

Ha... pressure? Ivy League finally realized how much money was able to be brought in and decided to do a season ending tournament.

BTW - only one league in the entire NCAA doesn't have a playoff and they are in DIII: UAA.

Trying to be nice, it was obviously financial pressure!!

+1 -- exactly

Well, maybe pressure for the athletic departments to generate more revenue, but no Ivy actually has financial pressure. If they really didn't want to do it, money wouldn't have been a problem.  I suspect they just liked the excitement and exposure (and the extra money doesn't hurt, even for the haves).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 16, 2018, 09:48:42 PM
Fantastic effort by Vassar but Hobart hangs on to win 79-74 at Bristol for their 15th straight. Vassar bigs were very effective and gave Hobart fits. Union looks hot, so should be a good ending to the regular season tomorrow night. If Hobart has any chance to win a few games in the NCAA tourney competitive games from the Liberty League will only help them play under pressure down the line.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Libertatem Foederis on February 17, 2018, 12:51:36 PM
LL Playoff Picture


# 1 Seed:


Hobart - LOCKED


# 2 Seed:


Union - LOCKED
- A win or lose they have the tie breaker with RIT & Ithaca (they split with both) of which I'm assuming its best record vs top of the league (Hobart) of which they are the only team the LL to beat them.

# 3 Seed & # 4 Seed:

RIT
- A Win & an Ithaca lose- Both Ithaca & RIT win or lose.....your guess is as good as mine how this gets figured out, they split this year & share the same results against the 2 teams ahead of them.

Ithaca
- A Win & a RIT lose- Both Ithaca & RIT win or lose.....your guess is as good as mine how this gets figured out, they split this year & share the same results against the 2 teams ahead of them.

# 5 Seed & 6 Seed:
What a mess..... fun thou

RPI
- Win & their in. Beat the Golden Knights today and they are either 5th or 6th , but they are in.
- Lose to the Golden Knights and it gets complicated. potentially a 4 way tie between Clarkson, Skidmore , & Vassar ... Vassar as swept them so if they lose they need Vassar to lose as well to keep their playoff hopes alive.

Skidmore
- Win & their in. SLU is on tap.
- Lose , & they like RPI need Vassar to lose as well to get in or at least give themselves a chance.

Vassar
- Win & RPI or Skidmore loses and they will take their spot b/c they will share the same record & they swept both teams this year.

Clarkson
- I put them here, but I don't think them can get in regardless of what happens.  If they win & everyone else loses (RPI , Vassar , Skidmore) they have a 3 way tie & skidmore swept them this year, & RPI split w/ Clarkson , but split with skidmore...and i think that will give them the edge .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Libertatem Foederis on February 17, 2018, 05:56:27 PM
I think this will be the layout for the LL Tournament



#4 Ithaca           #1 Hobart         
#5 Vassar          #4 or #5 Winner


#3 RIT               #2 Union
#6 Skidmore      #3 or #6 Winner


Vassar jumps RPI with their lose to Clarkson in OT & jumps Skidmore for the #5 spot b/c they have equal records jump swept them this year.



Should be a good one.


LF
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 17, 2018, 06:12:16 PM
Hobart 15 game winning streak ended by Union. Hobart had a poor shooting night and double the turnovers from last night. Union deserves a hard fought win as their leading scorer did not play. Hobart really needs the tournament next weekend ....home court advantage , no excuses. Should be some good games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Libertatem Foederis on February 17, 2018, 07:05:57 PM
CORRECTION

#5 Skidmore 9-9

#6 Vassar 8-10

I think Vassar gets in over Clarkson, but let see what the commish does...

LF
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Libertatem Foederis on February 17, 2018, 07:07:50 PM
Clarkson did beat Union.... They just might get them in over Vassar. 

LF
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 17, 2018, 07:31:36 PM
I think since Vassar and Clarkson split their 2 games, the tie breaker reverts to the overall record(including out of conference...at least that is the rule for LL Football to determine the NCAA bid if there is a multi team tie ) , I could be wrong but I think it would go to Clarkson in that case as they have the better overall record.
Correction: I was incorrect.....tie breaker went to Vassar and they have the 6 th seed for the tourney, congratulations to all qualifiers
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 18, 2018, 11:47:38 AM
I had a bad feeling the Statesmen would drop the regular season finale. Gotta win it to get in it now boys.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on February 18, 2018, 08:34:12 PM
Took awhile to figure out who was going to get the final spot in the LL playoffs and congrats to Vassar. Very interesting season and never expected the double figures in losses for Skidmore. St. Lawrence a bit easier to understand once Naclerio went down. Clarkson finished strong and just missed getting the final spot. Hobart lived up to its preseason billing finishing first as was predicted back in November in the LL coaches survey. Biggest surprise had to be Union which was predicted 8th of 10 and then locking up a second place slot. Coach Sweeney is doing a very good at Hobart but the Union coach really got the maximum out of his players. Good luck to all in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 19, 2018, 11:50:42 AM
Out of curiosity, what was the criteria for Vassar getting in over Clarkson....I get that RPI had the worst 3 way tie record of the three, but I am wondering what the formula was for Vassar ? Good luck to all the teams in the playoffs....anything is possible .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 19, 2018, 01:07:55 PM
Quote from: Bartman on February 19, 2018, 11:50:42 AM
Out of curiosity, what was the criteria for Vassar getting in over Clarkson....I get that RPI had the worst 3 way tie record of the three, but I am wondering what the formula was for Vassar ? Good luck to all the teams in the playoffs....anything is possible .

Vassar went 3-1 vs RPI and Clarkson
Clarkson went 2-2 vs. RPI and Vassar
RPI went 1-3 vs. Clarkson and Vassar

therefore, Vassar gets the spot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 19, 2018, 05:17:51 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 19, 2018, 01:07:55 PM
Quote from: Bartman on February 19, 2018, 11:50:42 AM
Out of curiosity, what was the criteria for Vassar getting in over Clarkson....I get that RPI had the worst 3 way tie record of the three, but I am wondering what the formula was for Vassar ? Good luck to all the teams in the playoffs....anything is possible .

Vassar went 3-1 vs RPI and Clarkson
Clarkson went 2-2 vs. RPI and Vassar
RPI went 1-3 vs. Clarkson and Vassar

therefore, Vassar gets the spot.
Got it, thanks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 19, 2018, 08:08:40 PM
Wow, a close loss to the #2 in the LL ,Union, and Hobart drops out of the top 25 rankings as well as a bunch of other 20-25 ranked teams who suffered losses. Plattsburgh St. will take over the #1 ranking in the region as they take Hobart's place in the Top 25. I thought Hobart didn't have to win the LL Tourney to get in, but now I am worried. Gotta play well this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2018, 02:00:55 PM
Quote from: Bartman on February 19, 2018, 08:08:40 PM
Wow, a close loss to the #2 in the LL ,Union, and Hobart drops out of the top 25 rankings as well as a bunch of other 20-25 ranked teams who suffered losses. Plattsburgh St. will take over the #1 ranking in the region as they take Hobart's place in the Top 25. I thought Hobart didn't have to win the LL Tourney to get in, but now I am worried. Gotta play well this weekend.

Bartman - that statement is incorrect. The Top 25 has nothing to do with the rankings. Hobart could very well stay ahead of Plattsburgh (not looking at data to make a claim). The regional rankings and Top 25 don't always agree. You can look around every week and find examples.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 20, 2018, 05:50:32 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2018, 02:00:55 PM
Quote from: Bartman on February 19, 2018, 08:08:40 PM
Wow, a close loss to the #2 in the LL ,Union, and Hobart drops out of the top 25 rankings as well as a bunch of other 20-25 ranked teams who suffered losses. Plattsburgh St. will take over the #1 ranking in the region as they take Hobart's place in the Top 25. I thought Hobart didn't have to win the LL Tourney to get in, but now I am worried. Gotta play well this weekend.

Bartman - that statement is incorrect. The Top 25 has nothing to do with the rankings. Hobart could very well stay ahead of Plattsburgh (not looking at data to make a claim). The regional rankings and Top 25 don't always agree. You can look around every week and find examples.

Hobart will probably stay ahead of Plattsburgh in the regional rankings next week even with the loss to Union. Hobart has the same number of losses as Plattsburgh and 1 more win. They also have a slightly better Strength of Schedule. I'll be surprised if Plattsburgh moves into the top spot. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 20, 2018, 10:05:55 PM
RIT edges Vassar at home by 5, Skidmore knocks off Ithaca at the Bulb by 6, Rupkus went fully buck wild with 39 points.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 20, 2018, 10:32:55 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2018, 02:00:55 PM
Quote from: Bartman on February 19, 2018, 08:08:40 PM
Wow, a close loss to the #2 in the LL ,Union, and Hobart drops out of the top 25 rankings as well as a bunch of other 20-25 ranked teams who suffered losses. It is my opinion that Plattsburgh St. will take over the #1 ranking in the region as they take Hobart's place in the Top 25. I thought Hobart didn't have to win the LL Tourney to get in, but now I am worried. Gotta play well this weekend.

Bartman - that statement is incorrect. The Top 25 has nothing to do with the rankings. Hobart could very well stay ahead of Plattsburgh (not looking at data to make a claim). The regional rankings and Top 25 don't always agree. You can look around every week and find examples.
Thanks for your attention , you actually interpreted my comments incorrectly, I am not uninformed on these matters,  I know the regional rankings are independent from  the top 25 vote....it was just my prediction/opinion, but I also considered the teams results against ranked opponents(Plattsburgh is 3-3 and Hobart is 1-2) ....if Hobart keeps their #1 RR, I will be happy, but happier if they win the next 2 games against some good LL teams

Congratulations to RIT and Skidmore for their wins tonight. Rupkus was unconscious tonight with 39 and a killer 3 at the end.  Looking forward to the games in Geneva this weekend
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 12:21:14 PM
Bartman, when you say a team will take over the top spot in the regional rankings and follow it with "as they take Hobart's place in the Top 25" it can misunderstood you think there is a correlation. The sentence makes it seem the two are connected. You didn't state anything about regional rankings until the last post... thus the confusion of what you are actually saying initially.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 02:41:25 PM
The NCAA men's basketball regional advisory committees released their third set of rankings, and as expected, the Atlantic Region was among those getting shuffled. Here's the full list: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-third

(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdnak1.psbin.com%2Fimg%2Fmw%3D600%2Fmh%3D600%2Fcr%3Dn%2Fd%3D4ima3%2Fdinflo07zg1qa2ww.jpg&hash=686d8e036c15a7019bc8f4723e2af35008adc158)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 21, 2018, 04:29:26 PM
Hobart does keep the top spot in the Regional Rankings over Plattsburgh State. Biggest change was Brockport moving ahead of Cortland into the 3rd spot,  but that was to be expected after the Brockport win over Cortland last Saturday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 22, 2018, 11:24:36 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 12:21:14 PM
Bartman, when you say a team will take over the top spot in the regional rankings and follow it with "as they take Hobart's place in the Top 25" it can misunderstood you think there is a correlation. The sentence makes it seem the two are connected. You didn't state anything about regional rankings until the last post... thus the confusion of what you are actually saying initially.
I edited my post to say "In my opinion", I hope you approve. I will move on and promise to be more precise in my language , meine buchung administrator.
.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on February 25, 2018, 05:20:37 PM
Congratulations to Union on winning back to back Liberty League Championships with their double digit win over Skidmore today. Reached the finals with another double digit win versus RIT yesterday and shooting over 50% from the field in both games. Was curious how a team was ranked 8th in the preseason poll so a look at their website showed they had lost more than 55% of their scoring and 51% of their rebounding to graduation. With those numbers I would have ranked them 8th as well. Combination of excellent coaching, peaking at the right time, playing consummate team ball all contributed to this impressive achievement. Well done Dutchmen and best of luck in the NCAA tournament.  Footnote - hope Hobart gets a Pool C bid, Coach Sweeney and the team deserve it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 25, 2018, 06:11:25 PM
now that's what I call.................................................

(raises sunglasses dramatically)

double dutch

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 26, 2018, 09:52:07 AM
Quote from: ucaafan on February 25, 2018, 05:20:37 PM
Congratulations to Union on winning back to back Liberty League Championships with their double digit win over Skidmore today. Reached the finals with another double digit win versus RIT yesterday and shooting over 50% from the field in both games. Was curious how a team was ranked 8th in the preseason poll so a look at their website showed they had lost more than 55% of their scoring and 51% of their rebounding to graduation. With those numbers I would have ranked them 8th as well. Combination of excellent coaching, peaking at the right time, playing consummate team ball all contributed to this impressive achievement. Well done Dutchmen and best of luck in the NCAA tournament.  Footnote - hope Hobart gets a Pool C bid, Coach Sweeney and the team deserve it.
Agree, well deserved by the Dutchmen. No question they played the best at the end of the season when it counts. Hobart could not shoot in last two games against Union and Skidmore, simple as that.
Losing in the first round in your own gym was a bummer. Glad Union won as RIT players were a bit presumptive when Hobart lost. Hopeful Hobart gets a bid, but going from a chance to host an NCAA game to biting your nails to get in is a big swing.....if they get in Coach Sweeney will need them to bounce back strong. Good luck to the Dutchmen, and I will be snacking on my nails today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 26, 2018, 01:30:38 PM
Hobart is staying home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ITH radio on February 26, 2018, 01:34:45 PM
Didn't deserve a bid after ending the season the way they did, unfortunately
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 26, 2018, 01:39:02 PM
Heartbreaking not getting in. They had two of their worst shooting games in their last two games in close losses to Union and a fired up Skidmore team(Hobart upset them in the LL tourney last year, so it was payback time).I said after they lost to Union, they had to win the LL tourney , and I guess I was right.  Great Hobart team, bad timing with the losses.....kind of a LL snub with Brockport (although we did lose to them) and Springfield getting in. Ouch. Well, Hobart has the entire team except one senior next year....this will certainly motivate them between now and next season. Good luck to Union, our sole representative this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 27, 2018, 02:01:43 PM
on a more positive note, shout out to the women of Liberty League hoops for putting three teams in their NCAA Tournament. Skidmore won the Pool A bid out of the #1 seed, meaning both RIT and Ithaca earned true Pool C spots, no bubble busters. Apparently St. Lawrence was relatively close to the bubble as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 27, 2018, 03:24:07 PM
Good luck to the ladies
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 02, 2018, 06:23:42 PM
Union MBB down by 11 at the half against Jersey City..... an obvious athletic advantage to the Jersey boys...Union will need to hit foul shots and many 3s in the 2nd half to win this one....LL hanging by a thread
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 02, 2018, 07:29:42 PM
Great second half for Union as Jersey City falls apart for final 76-72 Union...go LL
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 02, 2018, 10:10:46 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 27, 2018, 02:01:43 PM
on a more positive note, shout out to the women of Liberty League hoops for putting three teams in their NCAA Tournament. Skidmore won the Pool A bid out of the #1 seed, meaning both RIT and Ithaca earned true Pool C spots, no bubble busters. Apparently St. Lawrence was relatively close to the bubble as well.
RIT and Ithaca win, Skidmore out. LL won 3 of 4 NCAA games, including Union MBB win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 03, 2018, 06:49:48 PM
#8 Tufts was too much for Ithaca, but congrats to the RIT women on the big road W over TCNJ, the Tigers advance to their first Sweet 16.

Positive vibes going out to the Union Dutchmen tonight in Plattsburgh!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mike Rejniak on March 12, 2018, 11:23:23 AM
​Dear D3 Faithful ;D,
     I have read many of your posts throughout the years and even met some of you in person, but for those who I haven't met, let me introduce myself: my name is Michael Rejniak and I have spent over 14 years coaching Division 3 basketball and love what our division has done and continues to do for  the sport of basketball. One of the greatest things about Division 3 basketball is the brotherhood that we all have with one another (coaches and players alike). My wish is to showcase the talents of D3 on a national stage in The Basketball Tournament (TBT).  You may have heard me speak about this on the Hoopsville Marathon with Dave McHugh of D3hoops.com (at the 6:11 mark). The TBT is a national tournament that is televised in July/August on ESPN after the NBA season is over. My goal is to put forth an all-star D3 team (current players are ineligible) and have them compete in this tournament to take on Former D1 / semi-pro's to prove that D3 deserves the same respect as other NCAA divisions. The team is mostly complete with former student-athletes from all over the country competing. Once the roster is complete we will be sure to release it through d3hoops. Former Babson College National Champion Matthew Droney '17 will also be assisting me on this journey.

How YOU can help our former elite D3 basketball players

While the end prize of this tournament is a monetary prize, being a D3-lifer, the goal is not the money (we all know that's not why we get into coaching), the goal is to bring an end to the stigma of Division 3 basketball, an awareness of how talented our student-athletes are and that we can compete (and win) against the best. We do need to raise funds for an entry fee, travel, meal and housing expenses for the athletes. In order to do this, we are conducting a crowd-funding campaign through GoFundMe to help make this a reality. These athletes need your support! Just think -- if every Division 3 school donated just $10, we will have raised over $4,000!!!! The link to the GoFundMe Page is below and please SPREAD THE WORD and email me with any questions/concerns at WeAreD3TBT@gmail.com. Thank you in advance for your support and Dave and I look forward to this "D3 Dream Team" taking the court this summer.-Mike Rejniak

Support "We Are D3" In The TBT
https://www.gofundme.com/WeAreD3TBT (https://www.gofundme.com/WeAreD3TBT)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on April 27, 2018, 11:00:08 PM
SLU just recruited someone who I think will be the tallest player in program history.  6'11" shot blocker from Loomis Chafee.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 08, 2018, 12:41:51 PM
Preseason poll:

https://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2018/11/7/hobart-selected-as-unanimous-favorite-in-2018-19-liberty-league-preseason-mens-basketball-poll.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2018, 04:12:27 PM
No surprises.  Hobart and Skidmore both had really disappointing finishes to their seasons, they'll be out for blood.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 10, 2018, 10:29:53 AM
Union popped the cork on 2018-19 LL men's basketball with a 67-64 win at Hartwick last night. McNoble didn't play but freshman** Mike Concannon went for 17-10-6 in his debut.

RIT opens today in TIGER WAR at Cobleskill and Skidmore starts this afternoon at home against Muhlenberg.

**I'm not calling them "first years", this isn't f---ing Hogwarts
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 10, 2018, 10:35:40 PM
RIT let a 2nd half lead get away from them but a 2nd chance bucket by Coby Adekanbi with 35 seconds left gave them a win at Cobleskill. The other Tigers (Fighting Tigers actually) had a three for the win on the final possession that didn't fall.

Skidmore took advantage of a 30-8 free throw disparity to hold off Muhlenberg by 6. Noah Meren scored 23 for the Thoroughbreds.

LL is back in action Tuesday for a couple North Country Derbies (Plattsburgh at Clarkson; St. Lawrence at Potsdam) as well as RIT's home opener against Rochester and Bard's season opener at Hartwick.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 12, 2018, 02:20:37 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 10, 2018, 10:29:53 AM
Union popped the cork on 2018-19 LL men's basketball with a 67-64 win at Hartwick last night. McNoble didn't play but freshman** Mike Concannon went for 17-10-6 in his debut.

RIT opens today in TIGER WAR at Cobleskill and Skidmore starts this afternoon at home against Muhlenberg.

**I'm not calling them "first years", this isn't f---ing Hogwarts

+1 😂😂😂
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 13, 2018, 08:33:55 PM
nearly but not quite Top 25 Rochester thrashes RIT 68-43 at Clark Gym. Not great.

Clarkson is getting extremely Patron-ized by Plattsburgh and will lose, down 20 with less than 6 minutes to go. Hardly an unexpected outcome by any means though.

St. Lawrence down 6, halftime at Potsdam. Bard in the process of getting blown off the floor at Hartwick. Rough night for the LL.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on November 13, 2018, 10:05:51 PM
TROY, N.Y. – Freshman Mike Concannon of the Union College men's basketball team got his collegiate career off to a good start this week, earning Liberty League Rookie of the Week honors, the conference office announced on Monday.

The freshman guard had a double-double in his collegiate debut, going for 17 points, 10 rebounds and six assists to lead Union to a 67-64 win over Hartwick on Friday night. The freshman had eight points, five rebounds and five assists just in the second half of the win, including a key rebound and two subsequent free throws with 13 seconds remaining to secure the three-point victory.

Union has a couple of impressive first and second year players to complement seniors McNoble and Laing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 14, 2018, 09:12:58 PM
Skidmore lost to Plattsburgh 83-75 up north. Rupkus and Meren combined for 42 points, but getting dominated on the glass and only being able to create nine Cardinals turnovers was the recipe for getting beat.

LL teams will look to end this 5-game OOC losing streak on Friday when St. Lawrence and Clarkson are in action, joined by the season openers for Hobart, Ithaca, RPI and Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2018, 08:30:52 AM
at Vassar 101, New Rochelle 88 - it's only CNR but it's always fun to score a hundo. 5 in double figures for the Brewers with 24-12 for Grinde and 23-7 for Durham.

Hobart rallied to edge Stevens 68-65 on a late bucket with 23 seconds left; Tucker Lescoe scored 23 for the Statesmen.

Clarkson got clocked by Westfield State. Former VC coach BJ Dunne picked up his first win at Gettysburg at the expense of Ithaca. RPI lost to Utica. St. Lawrence's game against Ursinus was postponed 1 day due to the snowstorm.

Another not very good day for the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 17, 2018, 12:09:15 PM
Good work on the game reviews. They don't go unnoticed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 17, 2018, 07:44:17 PM
Much better showing by SLU today against a solid Ursinus squad.  92-83 win and led the entire game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2018, 08:01:00 PM
St. Lawrence 92, Ursinus 83 (at Scranton) - five Saints in double figures, Dom DeRegis with 19 off the bench. SLU looking like their old selves.

RIT 72, at Wells 54 - 20/8/4 for Will Atkinson against a probably poor Express squad

Bard 78, Rhode Island College 68 (at Dean) - nice out of region win for the Raptors against previously 3-0 RIC. Alijah Rue 22-7-4; Armando Dunn double-double.

RPI 75, Waynesburg 52 (at Hilbert) - Tom Horvat scores 21 in a needed bounce-back win for the Engineers.

Ithaca 80, Albright 78 (at Gettysburg) - Bombers hang on in a nailbiter, freshman Skylar Sinon forces a turnover with 2 seconds left. Riley Thompson 26 points, 7 rebounds.

Hobart has a huge OOC opportunity tonight at Franklin & Marshall and the Statesmen are up 5 early.
--------------------------------------------------
Clarkson gets squished by Gordon. I think Clarkson might probably suck.

Vassar lost at home to Penn State Abington. Bromfeld and Grinde went 20-26 from the floor. All other Brewers were 8-38. Yikes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 17, 2018, 11:23:41 PM
Hobart blew a double digit lead and lost by one at F&M. That's gonna sting in March.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 18, 2018, 10:36:38 AM
I thought it was interesting that St. Lawrence really hammered home a "Two year plan" in their season preview and also in the off-season. It hleps to have a healthy Naclerio.

Clarkson season outlook:
1. They may not be very good this year
2. Not sure how competitive they'll be
3. They have some work to do
4. They might probably suck
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 18, 2018, 08:22:55 PM
St. Lawrence fell on the road to a probably very good Scranton today while Bard with a road win at Dean to win that tournament.

Eight games Tuesday before we break for Thanksgiving.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 20, 2018, 09:34:30 PM
Mount St. Vincent 71, Vassar 66
St. Lawrence 94, Canton 71
#9 Hamilton 97, Bard 88
Oswego 80, Clarkson 60
Alfred 88, RIT 76
Hartwick 81, Skidmore 72
Hobart losing big to Rochester
RPI blowing out Sage
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 21, 2018, 01:14:59 PM
Bard's loss was better than either of those two wins. We're not exactly tearing it up in OOC play, looking extremely 1-biddish.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 21, 2018, 04:36:31 PM
Wow, Hartwick beats Skidmore.   I was not entirely impressed with them, perhaps Ursinus and Scranton are much better teams than I thought. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: NEPAFAN on November 21, 2018, 08:29:39 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 21, 2018, 04:36:31 PM
Wow, Hartwick beats Skidmore.   I was not entirely impressed with them, perhaps Ursinus and Scranton are much better teams than I thought.

Is Skidmore good?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on November 21, 2018, 09:12:23 PM
Skidmore is very sound. All American candidate in Rupkus, soph Meren scored 39 in last game, excellent coach in Burke. Voted to finish second in LibertyLeague poll.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 24, 2018, 08:28:59 PM
Union beat NVU-Lyndon (fka Lyndon State) 101-59 at home after only being up 8 at halftime. The Dutchmen scored a GSW-esque 62 in the second half. They will play Westfield State tomorrow in their tournament championship game.

RPI down 6 to unbeaten Montclair State in the 2nd half at the U of R tournament.

EDIT: RPI can't get a three to drop on the final possession (they went 12-34 from beyond the arc) and loses 76-73 to MSU. Engineers get Elmira tomorrow in the consolation game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 25, 2018, 11:00:47 PM
Union beat Westfield State and RPI beat Elmira. 5 OOC games on deck for Tuesday and we start league games on Friday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on November 27, 2018, 05:45:24 PM
TROY, N.Y. – After earning All-Tournament Team honors at the Sig Makofski Invitational over the weekend, freshman Mike Concannon of the Union College men's basketball team picked up his second straight Liberty League Rookie of the Week award on Monday afternoon.

Concannon had another good weekend to start his collegiate career, averaging 12.0 points, 6.5 rebounds and 5.0 assists per game in helping Union to its first Sig Makofski title since 2012. The freshman hit 7-of-11 shots for 16 points to go with seven rebounds and five assists in a win over Northern Vermont University-Lyndon on Saturday, then added eight points, six rebounds and five assists on Sunday in the title-game win over Westfield State University.

Through three games, the freshman ranks second on the team by averaging 13.7 points per game, while also leading the team with 16 assists and 23 rebounds in a team-high 33.3 minutes per contest.

Concannon and the Dutchmen will look to keep their undefeated record intact this weekend, when Union kicks off Liberty League play on Friday at 7 p.m. against preseason favorite Hobart College in Geneva.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 27, 2018, 10:15:47 PM
0-5 night for the LL in its final pre-conference showcase. Good grief. I give up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 30, 2018, 07:47:35 PM
I cannot wait for this Skidmore team to graduate everyone this year.  I am so damn sick of watching SLU allow them to shoot 60% from the field literally every single time they play each other. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 30, 2018, 08:49:51 PM
Skidmore shoots a ridiculous 64% from the field.   I guarantee they won't come close to shooting like that the rest of the season.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 30, 2018, 09:33:23 PM
at Ithaca 87, Vassar 68; Riley Thompson 27 points on 5-7 from distance. IC up 22 at halftime and cruised in.

Bard 83, at RIT 58; Armando Dunn 21 and 9 to lead 4 in double figures. The Raptors...might actually be a thing.

RPI 96, at Clarkson 84; balanced scoring and 29-13 FTA disparity lead Engineers.

at Hobart 73, Union 66; Statesmen shake off cold night from three to finally get one over on the Dutchmen.

Skidmore 83, at St. Lawrence 67; Noah Meren 28 points/7 assists, as mentioned above Skid shot the lights out.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 01, 2018, 10:58:14 AM

You guys see them more than me - is my memory off or is Noah Meren significantly bigger this year than last?  They have him with the same height/weight numbers as last year, but we all know that means nothing.  It feels like he left campus a skinny freshman PG and returned a full-on power forward, but he's still got the handle.  If it weren't for the hair, I wouldn't have even known he was the same guy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 01, 2018, 08:37:34 PM
Bard wins at Ithaca and Vassar wins at Hobart for a pair of surprising road results.

Bard 2-0
Skidmore 2-0
Hobart 1-1
Ithaca 1-1
RPI 1-1
St. Lawrence 1-1
Union 1-1
Vassar 1-1
Clarkson 0-2
RIT 0-2
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on December 03, 2018, 10:22:45 AM
Who in the hell is this Riley Thompson tearing it up for Ithaca so far? Did he come out of nowhere or was this expected? He doesn't exactly impress physically but his scoring numbers and shooting percentages are insane. Any thoughts by those who have seen him this year or in the past?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 03, 2018, 09:14:10 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on December 03, 2018, 10:22:45 AM
Who in the hell is this Riley Thompson tearing it up for Ithaca so far? Did he come out of nowhere or was this expected? He doesn't exactly impress physically but his scoring numbers and shooting percentages are insane. Any thoughts by those who have seen him this year or in the past?

his numbers aren't far off what he did last year, he was 42 percent from three, dunno if he's gonna keep shooting over 50 percent from distance all year. What do I know, the one game I saw Thompson play in person last year, he missed every shot he took.

Ithaca always has some non-descript guard put up video game numbers on a .500 team. It's the Jim Mullins Way.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 04, 2018, 09:53:31 PM
Ithaca beat Wells, RPI smashed UCLA wow holy sh- (listens to earpiece) I'm sorry, I'm being told it was MCLA

Hobart beat Brockport for I think the LL's first win over the SUNYAC this season, yikes, better late than never I guess

St. Lawrence gets a conference win over Cllllllllllarkson
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on December 10, 2018, 08:52:35 PM
Geez. Union just lost to MCLA. That's the same MCLA that RPI hammered by 37 a couple of weeks ago.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on December 11, 2018, 09:10:10 PM
Ithaca really putting it on No. 13 Rochester ... up 18 with nine minutes left.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on December 12, 2018, 06:23:04 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 03, 2018, 09:14:10 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on December 03, 2018, 10:22:45 AM
Who in the hell is this Riley Thompson tearing it up for Ithaca so far? Did he come out of nowhere or was this expected? He doesn't exactly impress physically but his scoring numbers and shooting percentages are insane. Any thoughts by those who have seen him this year or in the past?

his numbers aren't far off what he did last year, he was 42 percent from three, dunno if he's gonna keep shooting over 50 percent from distance all year. What do I know, the one game I saw Thompson play in person last year, he missed every shot he took.

Ithaca always has some non-descript guard put up video game numbers on a .500 team. It's the Jim Mullins Way.

I looked at his numbers from last year......................far from "non-descript" as a sophomore....................... they made him a captain, as a junior, this season. He might just make one of the all league teams at this rate.

He also had 17 points (on 7-11 shooting against that very lengthy and supposedly tough Rochester defense) last night as Ithaca crushed the #13 team in the country, 85-70. I was not impressed by Rochester even a little bit. I need to go look at who they've beaten this year to justify the #13 ranking heading into the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on December 21, 2018, 10:57:25 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on December 10, 2018, 08:52:35 PM
Geez. Union just lost to MCLA. That's the same MCLA that RPI hammered by 37 a couple of weeks ago.

That certainly hurt...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 02, 2019, 10:13:13 AM
The previews are over. The real Liberty League season starts this weekend. Who are the contenders? Pretenders? Here's a snapshot after first semester.

Skidmore 3-0  5-3
Bard        2-0  6-3
SLU         2-1  5-5
RPI          1-1  6-3
Union       1-1  4-3
Ithaca      1-1  5-4
Hobart     1-1  4-5
Vassar     1-2  5-5
RIT          0-2  2-6
Clarkson   0-3  1-9
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 02, 2019, 10:09:25 PM
I really do not know how the league will shape out.  Skidmore and Hobart are literally the same teams from last year and they both had really disappointing finishes to their seasons,  and so far have not really impressed.  Bard is playing well but I'm not sure how they will hold up in the league, but I think they will compete for a playoff spot.  Union is always a threat but that atrocious loss to MCLA still has me scratching my head.     As for my alma mater, I really just don't know.   If Naclerio can stay consistent we'll compete for a playoff spot.  We have to shoot better as well.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on January 03, 2019, 11:22:36 AM
Quote from: stlawus on January 02, 2019, 10:09:25 PM
I really do not know how the league will shape out.  Skidmore and Hobart are literally the same teams from last year and they both had really disappointing finishes to their seasons,  and so far have not really impressed.  Bard is playing well but I'm not sure how they will hold up in the league, but I think they will compete for a playoff spot.  Union is always a threat but that atrocious loss to MCLA still has me scratching my head.     As for my alma mater, I really just don't know.   If Naclerio can stay consistent we'll compete for a playoff spot.  We have to shoot better as well.

You and dlip both...hopefully the Dutch respond and don't let that poor loss define their season. Good for MCLA on that W. Going to be an interesting heart of the season coming up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 04, 2019, 08:57:26 PM
Friday's scoreboard

SLU 82, Bard 77
Clarkson 82, Vassar 74
Hobart 71, RIT 62
Ithaca 89, Union 74
Skidmore 70, RPI 69 (on a foul shot by Rupkus with zeroes on the clock)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 05, 2019, 01:09:36 PM
Thoroughbreds out of the chute fast, but still anyone's race. Hoping the Statesmen can defend at home against the Bombers today, if not ,the preseason hype as the favorite to win the LL could be just that, hype. Hobart went 3-19 from downtown last night but still beat RIT, they can't do that against the Bombers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 05, 2019, 06:22:32 PM
Hobart(3-1) men  beat Ithaca(2-2) in a close one 89-86, with some great performances by a number of players on both sides. Hobart may have won the game, but Ithaca is a solid team and should be in the conference tournament at the end of the year. Skidmore(5-0) is still leading the pack with a 90-83 win over Union , while SLU(4-1) keeps pace with a 70-62 win over Vassar. The race is starting to take shape, but plenty games to go.
William Smith beat the Ithaca women in OT, for a nice doubleheader win at Bristol gym. Mia Morrison with 23 points and 21 rebounds.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 05, 2019, 06:37:43 PM
Saturday
Hobart 89, Ithaca 86
Clarkson 89, Bard 85
RPI 80, RIT 67
Skidmore 90, Union 83
SLU 70, Vassar 62

Standings
Skidmore      5-0  7-3
SLU              4-1  7-5
Hobart          3-1  6-5
RPI               2-2  7-4
Bard             2-2  6-5
Ithaca           2-2  6-5
Clarkson        2-3  3-9
Union            1-3  4-5
Vassar           1-4  5-7
RIT                0-4  3-8

Maybe it's stating the obvious, but the LL isn't great this year. It'll be a very competitive regular season, a wild playoffs ... and one NCAA bid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 05, 2019, 08:30:46 PM
Agree with your comments triple d3 with a -2 OOC for the LL. Although a great conference and playoff battle, then probably one and done in the NCAA.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 05, 2019, 09:44:43 PM
It's bizarre how Hobart and Skidmore have regressed.   2 years ago they were the teams to beat and had a core group of players play together for 3 or 4 years.   Just shows how hard it is to play with a target on your back.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on January 07, 2019, 11:04:46 AM
One big factor to Hobart's mediocre showing is the loss of last year's Rookie of the Year, Dan Masino.  He has been out since the 4th game of the year, not sure of his injury or status, but that is  a huge loss.  Captain Jamal Lucas was also out for the entire month of December, but came back this weekend with 16 and 24 point games, future may be getting brighter for the Statesmen!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 07, 2019, 04:08:11 PM
In addition to Oline's injury report, they lost Matt Walsh for the season to injury and he was the fifth leading scorer and a strong rebounder at 6-5". In addition ,the top four scorers did not miss a game last year....so with Massino out on crutches (not sure of return), Jamal out in the beginning and Matt Walsh out for the year, we lost three of the top 5 scorers for much of 2018. The team is pretty deep, so I expect them to step up since they have all seen more playing time, but there was quite a bit of adjustment earlier in the season. Skidmore still looks pretty strong at 5-0, so don't see much fall off there. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on January 08, 2019, 06:28:06 AM
Skidmore plays Yale tonight on ESPN 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 or something. Best of luck to the Thoroughbreds on their venture into the ranks of D1 basketball.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 08, 2019, 09:12:35 PM
Yale 88, Skidmore 59
Union 80, St. John Fisher 78 (on a 3 with 3 secs left)
Ithaca 78, RIT 61
RPI 83, Hobart 78
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 09, 2019, 09:58:34 AM
Hobart loses another close one. Turnovers are their biggest problem. Now that Masino is out for the season with an ACL, we need to have the ball handling /concentration improve to have a chance to stay in the hunt. RPI is another team that has improved since last year. Although Skidmore was thumped by Yale last night, they looked good at times . Skidmore had all of their top 5 scorers back and added Skoric, a 6-10" 225 pound Freshman that is now their 3rd highest scorer while only averaging 18 mpg, they will remain the favorite this season. Hopefully Hobart will make the tournament and figure things out by then. Lots of games to play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 11, 2019, 08:47:15 PM
Friday scores
SLU 72, Ithaca 71 (Naclerio four-point play with two secs left)
RPI 71, Vassar 60
Hobart 76, Bard 68
Union 86, Clarkson 76
Skidmore 70, RIT 59
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 11, 2019, 08:47:54 PM
Unbelievable win tonight by the Saints in Ithaca.  One of the best comebacks in recent history.  SLU got off to a hot start but the Bombers started to find their stroke and had a 10 point lead at halftime.  At one point in the 2nd half Ithaca was up 19 and looked to be coasting to an easy win.  SLU chipped away and got the game within 9.   Got some much needed stops but still had to foul and Ithaca started hitting free throws.  When the game was within 6 Ithaca missed a front end of a 1 and 1 and several more free throws which SLU took advantage of.   Down 3 with 2 seconds left Naclerio hit a clutch 3 while getting fouled.  Completed the 4 point play and SLU won by 1.   What a finish. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on January 12, 2019, 08:53:20 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on January 08, 2019, 09:12:35 PM
Yale 88, Skidmore 59
Union 80, St. John Fisher 78 (on a 3 with 3 secs left)
Ithaca 78, RIT 61
RPI 83, Hobart 78

Dlip saw this, it was great. Fisher was feisty and wouldn't let Union get much separation throughout the game. After last night Union has 2 nice W's in a row. Hopefully they can build on this.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 12, 2019, 06:00:47 PM
Saturday's scores
Hobart 64, Skidmore 52
Ithaca 71, Clarkson 58
Bard 68, RPI 54
Vassar 70, RIT 55
SLU 73, Union 65

Standings
SLU      6-1  9-5
Skid     6-1  8-5
Hobart  5-2 8-6
RPI       4-3 9-5
Ithaca   4-3 8-6
Bard     3-3  7-6
Union    2-4  6-6
Vassar   2-5  6-8
Clarkson 2-5 3-11
RIT        0-7  3-11
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 12, 2019, 06:04:10 PM
Another great win for the Saints today against a good Union squad.   Great way to cap off a weekend road sweep.  This team has made some great strides.  We were picked to finish in the bottom rung of the LL and even Downs had pretty low expectations of the team.  Getting a lot of good production in the paint from Miner and Jefferey. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 12, 2019, 06:12:06 PM
Great effort by Hobart tonight against the Thoroughbreds with a dominating second half performance( although Skidmore was pretty flat). Colin Dougherty played like league MVP with 28 points tonight. It looks like the top teams are Skidmore, SLU and Hobart, and the good news for Hobart is that they still have 2 games remaining with SLU and one left with Skidmore. Still lots af Bball to play as Union , Ithaca and RPI will have a lot to say...also credit to Bard with the win over the Engineers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 13, 2019, 08:33:49 AM
For all RPI basketball alum who still follow the Engineers  (I do)... just very hard to understand the current goings on.. win a couple of important games to get back into the conference race... then lose, never in the game,   to.... BARD..... BARD?????     UGH....   54 points???   16 in a half???
Bring back Griff and the system.....

I guess times change....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 15, 2019, 09:54:46 PM
Tuesday
Vassar 77, Skidmore 65 (lost by 40 up there last month)
Bard 82, Union 77 (Bard down 15 in second half)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 16, 2019, 08:52:59 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on January 15, 2019, 09:54:46 PM
Tuesday
Vassar 77, Skidmore 65 (lost by 40 up there last month)
Bard 82, Union 77 (Bard down 15 in second half)
Congrats to Vassar and Bard...a very competitive LL season.The Canton crew stands alone at the top. ...so far
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on January 16, 2019, 10:34:00 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on January 15, 2019, 09:54:46 PM
Tuesday
Vassar 77, Skidmore 65 (lost by 40 up there last month)
Bard 82, Union 77 (Bard down 15 in second half)

Union...ugggh...dlip turned it off at the half to hit the hay fairly confident his beloved Garnet (who were dropping threes like wildfire) would handle business. Guess they didn't. Props to Bard for not packing it in and fighting back. Maybe this also explains more about the earlier loss to MCLA. That the Dutchmen are just inconsistent and haven't found their footing yet.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on January 16, 2019, 01:38:25 PM
Almost half way through conference play and only one big surprise so far: St. Lawrence......Really didn't expect Naclerio's return to have this level of impact, although they do have a stellar freshmen class as well. Considering how rough of a season they had last year as well as a couple of impact outbound transfers, this is definitely a surprise.

Hobart is playing as well as you can expect considering what their injuries. Even without those guys, they should have enough talent to finish with a top 2 seed. Skidmore has had a rough stretch here but I expect them to turn it around. It feels like outside of RIT, any team has the ability to be beat anyone else on any given night, should be an exciting second half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 16, 2019, 02:57:11 PM
Naclerio has had a big impact but the biggest surprise is Chris Miner.  He has played extremely well this year at center.  He's blocked a lot of shots, rebounded well and most importantly been a threat offensively down low.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 17, 2019, 05:05:09 PM
Sh(n)owdown between  SLU and Hobart this weekend ......can SLU keep the mojo and stay on top or has Hobart settled into a groove post injuries to tie it up ?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 17, 2019, 06:20:20 PM
This is always an interesting matchup.  Hobart used to shoot the lights out in one of the 2 games just about every single year with the exception of 2016 when SLU had their best season in almost a decade.  SLU's bigs have been playing extremely well the last 2 weeks, but Hobart has some decent length and can match up well. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 18, 2019, 08:43:23 PM
Friday

Union 65, Vassar 60
RPI 82, Ithaca 79
SLU 55, RIT 54 (4-point play by Naclerio with 25 secs left the difference - he finished with 7 points)
Skidmore 77, Bard 66
Hobart 78, Clarkson 67
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 18, 2019, 08:44:12 PM
Unbelievable.  SLU wins on another 4 point play by Naclerio.  RIT had time for a full possession unlike Ithaca but got nothing.   I don't know how SLU pulled that one out.    RIT is clearly much better than their record shows.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on January 19, 2019, 01:07:32 PM
Union vs RPI basketball games, both men's and women's, postponed until Tuesday 1/22 due to the impending snow storm.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 19, 2019, 02:56:24 PM
HWS games with SLU postponed as well
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 19, 2019, 05:37:48 PM
Saturday

Skidmore 75, Ithaca 66
Bard 73, Vassar 67
Clarkson at RIT, ppd TBA
SLU at Hobart, ppd to Tues
Union at RPI, ppd to Tues

Standings
SLU   7-1  10-5
Skid  8-2   10-6
Hob   6-2   9-6
RPI   5-3   10-5
Bard  5-4   9-7
Ith     4-5  8-8
Union  3-5  7-7
Vass    3-7 7-10
CU      2-7  3-12
RIT      0-8  3-12
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 22, 2019, 08:45:16 PM
St. Lawrence 73, Hobart 62 (Hobart never led - at home)
Union 72, RPI 69 (at RPI)

Standings heading into weekend

SLU     8-1    11-5
Skid    8-2     10-6
Hob    6-3     9-7
RPI     5-4     10-6
Bard   5-4     9-7
Union  4-5    8-7
Ith      4-5    8-8
Vass    3-7   7-10
Clark   2-6   3-12
RIT     0-8    3-12
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 22, 2019, 09:05:45 PM
Another solid win tonight for my alma mater in Geneva.   Got off to a hot start on both ends of the court but Hobart started hitting 3's to end the first half to make it within 8.  They came out firing from beyond the arc to start the half but SLU kept answering with jump shots.   Very impressed with the team's defensive resiliency to get some key stops the final 8 minutes to open up the lead a bit off a spark initiated from a Karera dunk.    This has been a very pleasantly surprising season as everyone including myself had us finishing in the bottom tier at the start of the campaign.   

Hobart is still a solid team even with the injuries.   A little too reliant on the 3 ball I think, but I guess it doesn't matter if they can keep the 3PG% consistently high.   You can tell their injuries are hurting their inside game.   The rematch in Canton should be a good one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on January 23, 2019, 11:53:06 AM
Things are starting to get interesting in the middle of the pack, looks like this playoff race will go right down to the last weekend. Not even Hobart at this point is guaranteed a spot. Looking ahead at schedules it looks like Bard has the most favorable schedule with just 3 away games left while RPI, Ithaca and Union have 4 away games left including 2 away weekends. Hobart has a really really tough schedule coming up with 7 of their final 9 games on the road. Vassar and Clarkson at this point have most likely played themselves out of a playoff spot. They would need 2 of the above teams to collapse to have a shot.

Huge game on Saturday as Union plays at Ithaca (and tough weekend for Union as they play at Skidmore the night before).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 23, 2019, 02:58:41 PM
Quote from: stlawus on January 22, 2019, 09:05:45 PM
Another solid win tonight for my alma mater in Geneva.   Got off to a hot start on both ends of the court but Hobart started hitting 3's to end the first half to make it within 8.  They came out firing from beyond the arc to start the half but SLU kept answering with jump shots.   Very impressed with the team's defensive resiliency to get some key stops the final 8 minutes to open up the lead a bit off a spark initiated from a Karera dunk.    This has been a very pleasantly surprising season as everyone including myself had us finishing in the bottom tier at the start of the campaign.   

Hobart is still a solid team even with the injuries.   A little too reliant on the 3 ball I think, but I guess it doesn't matter if they can keep the 3PG% consistently high.   You can tell their injuries are hurting their inside game.   The rematch in Canton should be a good one.
Congrats to SLU on the win, they got off to a fast start and played very strong on defense. You were kind to Hobart, they played like ****, no excuses for injuries. The last 5 minutes when they had a chance to get back in it, they were turning it over and taking some poor shots. SLU was the better team , and frankly, they have my vote over Skidmore right now. If Hobart wants to get back in it, they need to STOP the TOs and drive to the basket better and either make the close in shots, get fouled or kick it out for open threes...they have plenty of three point shooters , but SLU was cheating towards the three line and the Hobart offense was not running enough effective plays close in. It is too bad they are missing a couple of their Bigs, but Edens Fleurizard has really stepped up this year, although he is used to having a complementary Big and we just don't have it this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on January 23, 2019, 03:37:35 PM
In a game postponed from last Saturday to last night, the Union Dutchmen remained in the LL race by defeating RPI in Troy 72-69. The Dutchmen used hot shooting, 25/46 54.3%, 13/23 56.5% on 3's to just hold RPI at bay.  Union has a crowd favorite shot blocker coming off the bench. Rhonda Eseyade a 6'8" soph from Lagos, Nigeria via Bergen Catholic has seemingly a 7+ footers wingspan and quick jumping ability. Something you don't see that much in the LL. He comes in the game, hustles, blocks shots and generally disrupts the opponents inside game. Often changing what they're trying to do on offense...and he's only going to get better. The Dutchmen are beginning to get the confidence they need to make another LL championship run. Tough games at Skidmore and Ithaca await this weekend.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 25, 2019, 08:33:24 PM
17-64 shooting performance against Vassar earns SLU its biggest egg of the season.  That was atrocious. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 25, 2019, 08:54:45 PM
A bit surprising to see St. Lawrence lose to Vassar. Such a strange league.

Scores
Skidmore 78, Union 67
Bard 73, Clarkson 49
Hobart 92, Ithaca 81 (huge late rally)
RIT 70, RPI 68
Vassar 70, SLU 49
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 26, 2019, 07:25:44 AM
This league is wide open, just get into the tournament and anything can happen. Hobart was as good at the end of the Ithaca win last night as they were bad against SLU on Tuesday. THE top 3 teams are all even against each other so far.....I take back my earlier comment that SLU was better than Skidmore......very bad SLU loss against Vassar , a team with a losing record that is 3-2 against the top 3 teams....pretty much says everything about league parity this year
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 26, 2019, 05:54:34 PM
Saturday
Skidmore 81, RPI 50
Hobart 65, RIT 60
Clarkson 80, Vassar 55
Ithaca 85, Union 69
SLU 53, Bard 46

Standings
Skid     10-2    12-6
SLU       9-2     12-6
Hob       8-3     11-7
Bard      6-5     10-8
RPI        5-6     10-8
Ithaca    5-6     9-9
Union     4-7     8-9
Vassar    4-8     8-11
Clark      3-7     4-13
RIT        1-9     4-13
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 26, 2019, 07:48:40 PM
What an embarrassment for RPI.  Losing to Union, losing to last place RIT , losing by 31 to Skidmore....I was led to believe by the glowing preseason write up from Coach Gilbride that this team was going to be a contender for the Conference championship. Instead, it appears to me to be a team that has quit even before February has been reached. VERY DISAPPOINTING.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on January 26, 2019, 07:58:20 PM
Crazy results

Bard beats Clarkson by 24
Vassar beats SLU by 21
SLU beats Bard by 7
Clarkson beats Vassar by 25

SLU beat Clarkson by 5 at SLU,

????
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 29, 2019, 03:20:24 PM
Bard at Union PPD tonight due to the snow. Until a couple minutes ago, it looked like the women were going to play but the men weren't, which didn't make a lot of sense to me, but now both games are postponed which is the smarter decision.

Hobart (and William Smith) still scheduled to play tonight at RPI.

UPDATE: Bard-Union will go tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 29, 2019, 08:37:14 PM
Down 19-5 halfway through first half, Hobart wins at RPI, 66-55. Engineers' leading scorer Horvat DNP
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 30, 2019, 01:48:50 PM
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Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 30, 2019, 09:38:47 PM
Bard 90, Union 72 (Bard scored first 20 points of the game, was up 37 in second half)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on January 31, 2019, 03:06:26 PM
Fun game last night in Union, Bard really showed what they can do when they put everything together. Previous performance against St. Lawrence showed that they are vulnerable against bigger teams with length. Bard is 7-1 against the 5-10 seeds and 0-4 against the top 3. Updated standings:

Standings
Skid     10-2    12-6
SLU       9-2     12-6
Hob       9-3     12-7
Bard      7-5     11-8
Ithaca    5-6     9-9
RPI        5-7     10-9
Union     4-8     8-10
Vassar    4-8     8-11
Clark      3-7     4-13
RIT        1-9     4-13

Absolutely huge game on Friday night for Union against RPI. If they win, they move into playoff position and secure the tie-breaker over RPI due to previously beating them @RPI. RPI on the other hand has a tough weekend coming playing at Union and then having to travel to Ithaca the next day. Lots of fun games on Friday with Hobart playing at St. Lawrence with the winner having the upper hand for a top 2 seed, a Bard-Vassar rivalry game and a must win game for Ithaca home against a powerful Skidmore team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 01, 2019, 07:12:20 PM
RPI vs Union hoops... used to be the big rivalry game of the year.. not a full house, but pretty darned near... I turn the game on tonight, the stands behind the team benches might have 20 fans.... what a shame...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on February 01, 2019, 07:54:30 PM
Skidmore is getting monkey stomped at the half up at Ithaca, 55-33. Skidmore has an insane height advantage but you wouldn't know it. Meren and Rupkus have COMBINED for 10 first half points. Ithaca has 10 steals. Skidmore has 14 turnovers. Ezema has 17. Flood has 11 and Thopmson is battling through an injury and has 10. The Skidmore players are yelling at each other. Let's see what Burke and the boys figure out in the locker room at halftime. If I wasn't watching it with my own eyes, I would never believe this first half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on February 01, 2019, 08:56:12 PM
Congrats to RPI for that win tonight at U. Engineers made some big 3's when they needed to and Union just couldn't hit the shots they needed to. Dlip also wants to note that the Engineers seemed to not only be playing against Union but the officials as well. Props for keeping their composure and battling through.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 01, 2019, 09:07:47 PM
SLU with the rare season sweep of Hobart and moves back into 1st after Skid gets a beat down by Ithaca.   DeRegis got scorching hot from 3 to give SLU the 2nd half momentum. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 01, 2019, 09:11:20 PM
I think the Saints just took over first place as they beat Hobart tonight 72-58.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on February 02, 2019, 12:11:37 PM
Quote from: hopefan on February 01, 2019, 07:12:20 PM
RPI vs Union hoops... used to be the big rivalry game of the year.. not a full house, but pretty darned near... I turn the game on tonight, the stands behind the team benches might have 20 fans.... what a shame...

There was a Division I hockey game between Union and Cornell right next door plus RPI had a home hockey game vs. Colgate. There are only so many Union/RPI fans locally that are willing to go out on such a cold night.  Especially with all the games also available on streaming video.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 02, 2019, 06:40:45 PM
Saturday
SLU 80, RIT 65
Skid 83, Bard 72
Vassar 61, Union 55
Hobart 70, Clarkson 61
Ithaca 89, RPI 85 (OT)

Standings
SLU     11-2   14-6
Skid    11-3    13-7
Hob     10-4    13-8
Bard    8-6      12-9
Ith       7-6     11-9
RPI      6-8      11-10
Vass    5-9       9-12
Union   4-10    8-12
Clark    3-9     4-15
RIT      2-10   5-14
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 03, 2019, 06:27:47 AM
Quote from: UfanBill on February 02, 2019, 12:11:37 PM
Quote from: hopefan on February 01, 2019, 07:12:20 PM
RPI vs Union hoops... used to be the big rivalry game of the year.. not a full house, but pretty darned near... I turn the game on tonight, the stands behind the team benches might have 20 fans.... what a shame...

There was a Division I hockey game between Union and Cornell right next door plus RPI had a home hockey game vs. Colgate. There are only so many Union/RPI fans locally that are willing to go out on such a cold night.  Especially with all the games also available on streaming video.

Thanks, Bill.....fantastic scheduling by the AD's of both schools, eh???   As I used to say, who goes to the Basketball games?  The people who couldn't get tix for the hockey games...  SAD
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 03, 2019, 09:12:33 AM
I don't think there's anything they can do about it. Pretty sure the LL locks you into the 6/8 window on Friday and 2/4 on Saturday with ECAC hockey going at 7.

I imagine the same thing happens at SLU and Clarkson, plus whenever the men's hockey team is on the road in the league, usually the women are at home, so still a conflict. RIT games in AHA/CHA can't be much different either, not to mention HWS and Skidmore in D3.

Particularly in Union's case, lamenting that a D1 hockey team that may well make the NCAAs this year and won a natty 5 years ago is a more interesting draw than a D3 basketball team near the bottom of its conference is, well...whaddaya gonna do.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on February 04, 2019, 03:14:15 PM
For anybody who follows more closely than me, I see Thompson from Ithaca is second in the Liberty League in scoring. Have other teams not figured out how to defend him or does he have a secondary strength other than 3 point shooting? Thanks!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 05, 2019, 06:26:26 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on February 04, 2019, 03:14:15 PM
For anybody who follows more closely than me, I see Thompson from Ithaca is second in the Liberty League in scoring. Have other teams not figured out how to defend him or does he have a secondary strength other than 3 point shooting? Thanks!
I have only watched him against Hobart, but he is a very exciting offensive player. Hobart did not really stop him but tried to limit his 3 point attempts( 2-12 against Hobart in 2 games on 3PT), but he figured out how to score 51 points in 2 games on 20-40 shooting and 9-11 from the line. Ithaca as a team has 2 great players in Thompson and Ezema, but Hobart is deeper and out rebounded the Bombers 85-52 in the 2 games , but Ithaca protected the ball, with a 20-39 advantage in turnovers over the 2 games. Hobart had to shoot over 50% in both games to beat IC to overcome their slippery fingers and errant passes. Both games were  fast paced and Riley seems to be the catalyst...a really fun player to watch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on February 05, 2019, 09:50:54 PM
Quote from: Bartman on February 05, 2019, 06:26:26 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on February 04, 2019, 03:14:15 PM
For anybody who follows more closely than me, I see Thompson from Ithaca is second in the Liberty League in scoring. Have other teams not figured out how to defend him or does he have a secondary strength other than 3 point shooting? Thanks!
I have only watched him against Hobart, but he is a very exciting offensive player. Hobart did not really stop him but tried to limit his 3 point attempts( 2-12 against Hobart in 2 games on 3PT), but he figured out how to score 51 points in 2 games on 20-40 shooting and 9-11 from the line. Ithaca as a team has 2 great players in Thompson and Ezema, but Hobart is deeper and out rebounded the Bombers 85-52 in the 2 games , but Ithaca protected the ball, with a 20-39 advantage in turnovers over the 2 games. Hobart had to shoot over 50% in both games to beat IC to overcome their slippery fingers and errant passes. Both games were  fast paced and Riley seems to be the catalyst...a really fun player to watch.

thanks Bartman!! I still can not get my head around how the Bombers blew out Skidmore, with the insane size differential and basically shutting down both Meren and Rupkus!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on February 06, 2019, 12:36:35 PM
Exciting final couple of weekends here in the LL. Here are the playoff races in progress:

1) Skidmore and St. Lawrence battling for the #1 seed and the right to host the semi-finals and finals. These 2 teams play in the final game of the regular season. That game will likely decide who hosts. Hobart also plays Skidmore this weekend so they have an outside chance to jump in the mix here too but they are likely locked into that #3 seed. However, if both Hobart and St. Lawrence beat Skidmore then Hobart likely takes over the #2 seed.

2) Bard and Ithaca for the #4 seed and the right to host in the first round. This will almost for sure be decided in the Bard/Ithaca matchup next weekend at Bard. Bard has already beaten the Bombers once this season so a win would secure any kind of tie break scenario. Alternatively, it Ithaca wins they would win a tie break due to their win against Skidmore. If I'm not mistaken this would be Bard's first ever playoff appearance in the LL (from the looks of it....it will be their first playoff appearance across ALL sports).

3) RPI vs. Vassar for #6 seed. Vassar is playing at RPI this Saturday and again, that will likely decide this. With a win, Vassar would have the tie break due to their win over St. Lawrence (they have also beaten Skidmore and Hobart.....surprising that their record isn't better). Union has a very outside shot to get to the #6 seed as well but it seems they are reeling with 5 straight losses.

Good luck to every team in the final 2 weeks!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 06, 2019, 04:15:39 PM
Here are the first rankings for the men this season: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 07, 2019, 03:36:12 PM
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Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 08, 2019, 08:59:19 PM
SLU with their worst performance of the year combined with Union's best results in a Dutchmen win in Canton.  SLU's best players shot an atrocious percentage and Union dominates with points off the bench.  Union playing like a team gunning for a playoff spot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 08, 2019, 09:08:35 PM
Friday
Skidmore 79, Hobart 71
Union 70, SLU 61
RPI 84, Bard 77
Vassar 75, RIT 73
Ithaca 97, Clarkson 67

SLU     12-3   15-7
Skid     11-3   13-7
Hob      10-4   13-8
Ith        9-6     13-9
Bard     8-7      12-10
RPI       7-8      12-10
Vass     6-9      10-12
Union    5-10    9-12
Clark     3-11    4-17
RIT        2-12    5-16
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on February 09, 2019, 08:25:50 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on February 08, 2019, 09:08:35 PM
Friday
Skidmore 70, Hobart 71
Union 70, SLU 61
RPI 84, Bard 77
Vassar 75, RIT 73
Ithaca 97, Clarkson 67

SLU     12-3   15-7
Skid     11-3   13-7
Hob      10-4   13-8
Ith        9-6     13-9
Bard     8-7      12-10
RPI       7-8      12-10
Vass     6-9      10-12
Union    5-10    9-12
Clark     3-11    4-17
RIT        2-12    5-16

Unfortunately, I think Hobart lost 79-71
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 09, 2019, 09:13:58 AM
Sorry about that. Fixed typo
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 09, 2019, 05:58:30 PM
Saturday
Hobart 83, Bard 80
SLU 84, Ithaca 72
RPI 66, Vassar 54
Skid 81, RIT 59
Clarkson 69, Union 66

SLU   13-3   16-7
Skid   13-3   15-7
Hob    11-5   14-9
Ith      9-7    13-10
RPI     8-8     13-10
Bard    8-8    12-11
Vass    6-10   10-13
Union   5-11   9-13
Clark    4-11   5-17
RIT      2-13    5-17

I believe the playoff field is set - but not the seedings. Vassar can't catch Bard or RPI because they lost all four of those games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 09, 2019, 07:15:40 PM
Gotta congratulate Bard on qualifying for the Liberty League tournament for what I believe is the first time...in any sport...ever.

Well done Raptors!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on February 11, 2019, 12:03:08 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on February 09, 2019, 05:58:30 PM
Saturday
Hobart 83, Bard 80
SLU 84, Ithaca 72
RPI 66, Vassar 54
Skid 81, RIT 59
Clarkson 69, Union 66

SLU   13-3   16-7
Skid   13-3   15-7
Hob    11-5   14-9
Ith      9-7    13-10
RPI     8-8     13-10
Bard    8-8    12-11
Vass    6-10   10-13
Union   5-11   9-13
Clark    4-11   5-17
RIT      2-13    5-17

I believe the playoff field is set - but not the seedings. Vassar can't catch Bard or RPI because they lost all four of those games.

Disappointing Saturday for the Dutchmen after a nice win of SLU on Friday. Ugghhh
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2019, 03:22:57 PM
The second week Regional Rankings have been released: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 13, 2019, 04:25:58 PM
I'm the furthest thing from an expert on regional rankings and DIII bracketology, but these rankings are intriguing giving the stakes the next few weekends.  I wonder what happens if SLU beats Skidmore on the road to finish the season (barring a win at RPI which is not guaranteed by far) and Cortland drops another game, considering they lost to New Paltz after these rankings were finalized.   I feel like SLU has too many bad losses to overcome a road win at Skidmore and a win in the conference tournament to get an at large bid, vice versa for Skidmore.   I can't see Naz getting an at large bid with their schedule, so does the YAC suck up all the at large oxygen this year?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 13, 2019, 05:43:26 PM
One thing for sure is that Hobart must win the LL tournament to get in. If they do, it will probably weaken the chances for St. Lawrence and Skidmore to get an at-large bid( not the LL strongest year). Everybody is fully capable of being upset by anyone in the tournament, although I am still bullish on the Saints in the end. It should be a fun tournament after this weekend. I would not count out Bard, they are pretty feisty.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 13, 2019, 05:57:53 PM
Quote from: Bartman on February 13, 2019, 05:43:26 PM
One thing for sure is that Hobart must win the LL tournament to get in. If they do, it will probably weaken the chances for St. Lawrence and Skidmore to get an at-large bid( not the LL strongest year). Everybody is fully capable of being upset by anyone in the tournament, although I am still bullish on the Saints in the end. It should be a fun tournament after this weekend. I would not count out Bard, they are pretty feisty.

You're more bullish than I am.  This has been a great season but we've always struggled in the LL tournament, even the year we made the Sweet 16.   I agree on the point about Bard, they shoot the ball well and if they get hot anything can happen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 13, 2019, 06:40:12 PM
SLU has head to head losses against the #1 [Oswego 18pts] #2 [Plattsburgh 29 pts] and #6/7 [Potsdam 13 pts] SUNYAC teams.  SLU has to win the LL or they are probably done, too many great [NESCAC] teams in the  East/NE pod for anyone but the winner of the LL to get a bid.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on February 14, 2019, 08:58:44 AM
 A question for the LL Basketball fans (I am much more familiar with football), what is the consensus that NESCAC has 4 teams in the national top 25, and LL has zero.  Fair assessment of talent?  I know there are very few chances for the leagues playing each other ( I think Bard played Hamilton early in the season), but what is the consensus on overall basketball talent. Certainly in football, there would never be a chance of having 4 NESCAC schools ranked ahead of a the entire LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on February 14, 2019, 09:38:24 AM
Quote from: Oline89 on February 14, 2019, 08:58:44 AM
A question for the LL Basketball fans (I am much more familiar with football), what is the consensus that NESCAC has 4 teams in the national top 25, and LL has zero.  Fair assessment of talent?  I know there are very few chances for the leagues playing each other ( I think Bard played Hamilton early in the season), but what is the consensus on overall basketball talent. Certainly in football, there would never be a chance of having 4 NESCAC schools ranked ahead of a the entire LL.

The NESCAC has 3 or 4 teams in the Top 25 more years than they don't. Some years they have had 5 teams in the Top 25 and usually have at least 3 teams in the NCAA tournament. The LL isn't having a great year but even if they were 2 teams would be the most the LL would see in the Top 25, but usually it's just one. Hobart and Skidmore have made the poll in the past few years, sporadically. Don't think anyone else has.  Even SLU, in the year they made it to the Sweet 16, didn't crack the Top 25.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on February 14, 2019, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: magicman on February 14, 2019, 09:38:24 AM
Quote from: Oline89 on February 14, 2019, 08:58:44 AM
A question for the LL Basketball fans (I am much more familiar with football), what is the consensus that NESCAC has 4 teams in the national top 25, and LL has zero.  Fair assessment of talent?  I know there are very few chances for the leagues playing each other ( I think Bard played Hamilton early in the season), but what is the consensus on overall basketball talent. Certainly in football, there would never be a chance of having 4 NESCAC schools ranked ahead of a the entire LL.

The NESCAC has 3 or 4 teams in the Top 25 more years than they don't. Some years they have had 5 teams in the Top 25 and usually have at least 3 teams in the NCAA tournament. The LL isn't having a great year but even if they were 2 teams would be the most the LL would see in the Top 25, but usually it's just one. Hobart and Skidmore have made the poll in the past few years, sporadically. Don't think anyone else has.  Even SLU, in the year they made it to the Sweet 16, didn't crack the Top 25.

Magicman, I completely understand your answer.  Again apologize for my lack of knowledge of the individual teams, but what about the talent level?  As we all know, in the D3 world it is impossible to make an objective determination of the  "best" teams, there are just too many teams that will never play each other (or even have common opponents).  So my question is, is the NESCAC simply a self fulfilling prophecy were "The NESCAC has 3 or 4 teams in the Top 25 more years than they don't. Some years they have had 5 teams in the Top 25 and usually have at least 3 teams in the NCAA tournament", or is the talent level on the court so far ahead of the LL (and the E8 for that matter), that they truly deserve 3-5 teams in the top 25 as opposed to one team from LL on occasion.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 14, 2019, 11:35:15 AM
NESCAC vs. LL 2018-19

Middlebury 71, Skidmore 54
Hamilton 92, Ithaca 77
Hamilton 97, Bard 88
Williams 87, Union 70
Trinity 69, Clarkson 53
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on February 14, 2019, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on February 14, 2019, 11:35:15 AM
NESCAC vs. LL 2018-19

Middlebury 71, Skidmore 54
Hamilton 92, Ithaca 77
Hamilton 97, Bard 88
Williams 87, Union 70
Trinity 69, Clarkson 53

That answers my question.  Thanks
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2019, 12:10:05 PM

I talked to one (non-NESCAC) coach this year who said he thought Connecticut College would be in the top half of the E8 this year - and I don't think they won a single game in the NESCAC.  It's pretty loaded right now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 15, 2019, 08:13:04 AM
The NESCAC has always attracted better top talent than the LL for basketball, although I think saying the Camels could be in the top half of the E8 is a stretch. The OOC records of the NESCAC teams are all over .500 except for the 10th and 11 th place teams in almost every year. One of the weaknesses of the LL is the lack of recruiting real Centers , and the best NESCAC teams seem to attract 6'8" to 6'10" athletic centers over the years. In addition to better length, the speed of the NESCAC games also seems to be a difference. I love the competition in the LL but the NESCAC as a league, is on the next level.....this comparison does not hold true for football ,IMO, but unless they compete in the national playoffs we will never know.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 15, 2019, 03:15:12 PM
Similar comparisons for soccer as well. There's a reason why NESCAC has won 3 titles in the last 4 years. They suck up a lot of Pool C oxygen since their conference is so strong.  It's the reason why Ithaca missed out this past season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 15, 2019, 05:30:51 PM
If you were a parent, of a 6-6 to 6-10 smart, decently athletic kid, who while a good player, wasn't getting a lot of Mid-Major D-I love, and had decent grades.  If a top 50 liberal arts college recruited that kid, most of those schools have nice endowments, and probably special talent admissions, and possibly scholarships; not to mention great alumni conenctions, then of course that kid is going to go to either the NESCAC or the UAA...  Is a student athlete going to have better post college career opportunities going to a Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Wash U, Emory, or Middlebury vs. riding the bench at Siena or Iona, on probably less than full scholarship.

Hmmm. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 15, 2019, 07:49:21 PM
 SLU with another atrocious performance for the first game of a weekend set, getting blown out by RPI at halftime.  Went a full 8 minutes without scoring a field goal at one point.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 15, 2019, 08:42:37 PM
Turnovers, terrible rebounding and offensive fouls kill SLU as they drop a terrible game against RPI.   Got it within 6 to start the 2nd half after being down 14 and then fouled a 3 point shooter that gave RPI all of the momentum back for the rest of the half.  Terrible loss, and that does it for home court advantage as we're definitely not beating Skidmore tomorrow.   Hard to be upset this season when you look at last year's record but this was a bit of a dud to end the season dropping 2 games against Union and RPI
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 15, 2019, 09:27:22 PM
Friday

Ithaca 87, Bard 83
Skidmore 65, Clarkson 46
Union 85, RIT 64
RPI 67, SLU 60
Vassar 104, Hobart 101 (2OT)

Skidmore will play SLU with the regular season title on the line in Saratoga on Saturday. The winner hosts the semifinals and championship game next weekend.

This locks Bard into the #6 seed and Hobart into the #3, so it'll be Bard at Hobart on Tuesday in one quarterfinal. Yes, Ithaca can tie Hobart in the standings, but Hobart swept Ithaca, and that's the first tiebreaker.

The #4 and #5 will be Ithaca and RPI, but we won't know where until after Saturday's games. If Ithaca wins at Vassar, they are the #4 and will host RPI Tuesday; if Ithaca loses and RPI beats Clarkson, RPI will be the #4 on the strength of wins over Hobart and SLU (Ithaca and RPI split - second tiebreaker is record vs. teams above you in the standings).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 15, 2019, 09:30:07 PM
If SLU wins tomorrow (which I highly doubt happens), why would we win the league title?  What's the tie breaker?  We'd be tied on head-to-head and thus by default on record against teams above you in the standings.  What's the 3rd tiebreaker?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 15, 2019, 10:07:28 PM
It would be because SLU swept Hobart, the #3 seed (record vs. conference opponents in descending order)

So if it's any consolation to you, SLU knew going into tonight's game that it didn't matter. It's Saturday that matters.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 15, 2019, 10:50:48 PM
kinda great that both the men's (SLU at SKID) and women's (IC at Vassar) #1 seeds will be decided head to head on the last day of the regular season. The commish has to be happy about that.

Not sure about that IC-RPI tiebreaker as posted above. I believe if RPI wins and Ithaca loses, then it depends on the outcome of the Skidmore-SLU game. If Skidmore wins to claim the #1 seed, then Ithaca's win over Skidmore gives them the #4 seed. If the Saints win to take the #1 seed, then RPI gets the #4 seed since they beat them and IC did not.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 15, 2019, 11:08:39 PM
If RPI and Ithaca finish tied at 10-8... RPI owns tiebreaker (2-4 cumulative record vs. teams with better record; Ithaca is 1-5)
1. Head-to-head: split
2. Cumulative record against all teams with a better record than those who are tied:

RPI (2-4):
-Skidmore (L,L)
-St. Lawrence (L,W)
-Hobart (W,L)

Ithaca (1-5):
-Skidmore (L,W)
-St. Lawrence (L,L)
-Hobart (L,L)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 15, 2019, 11:15:23 PM
of course, leave it to the LL to have a tiebreaker format nobody has ever seen used before anywhere.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 15, 2019, 11:28:30 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 15, 2019, 11:15:23 PM
of course, leave it to the LL to have a tiebreaker format nobody has ever seen used before anywhere.
+K, lol
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 16, 2019, 09:18:53 AM
Quote from: Bartman on February 15, 2019, 11:28:30 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 15, 2019, 11:15:23 PM
of course, leave it to the LL to have a tiebreaker format nobody has ever seen used before anywhere.
+K, lol

undoubtedly constructed by an RPI Engineer....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 16, 2019, 05:53:03 PM
Free throws are going to cost SLU home court advantage.  No one to blame but themselves
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 16, 2019, 06:03:25 PM
Massive choke job by SLU to lose the league title and home court advantage.  Up 6 with a minute and they missed 3 free throws including the front end of a 1 and 1.   Missed 6 free throws in a row.   Absolutely terrible.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 16, 2019, 06:16:12 PM
Saturday

Skidmore 65, SLU 54 (OT)
Bard 62, RIT 54
Ithaca 89, Vassar 62
Hobart 76, Union 74
RPI 78, Clarkson 64

Playoffs
Tuesday
#6 Bard at #3 Hobart
#5 RPI at #4 Ithaca

Saturday at Skidmore
Bard/Hobart winner vs. #2 St. Lawrence
RPI/Ithaca winner vs. #1 Skidmore

Sunday at Skidmore
Semifinal winners
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: LibertyLeagueGuru on February 16, 2019, 06:26:51 PM
Not 100% but I think LL re-seeds after the first round. So if Bard were to beat Hobart then they would play Skidmore as the lowest remaining seed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 16, 2019, 06:35:34 PM
Quote from: LibertyLeagueGuru on February 16, 2019, 06:26:51 PM
Not 100% but I think LL re-seeds after the first round. So if Bard were to beat Hobart then they would play Skidmore as the lowest remaining seed.

I'm pretty sure you're right.   This year in soccer SLU was the 1 seed and played #4 Hobart in the semifinal after they beat #5 Vassar.  Ithaca was the 3 seed and played #2 RPI in the semis as they beat the 6th seeded Skidmore. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 16, 2019, 06:44:20 PM
This from the league office:

First-Round Games (Tuesday, February 19)
#6 Bard at #3 Hobart, 8 p.m. (part of M/W doubleheader)
#5 RPI at #4 Ithaca, 7 p.m.

Semifinals (Saturday, February 23 – at Skidmore College)
2:00 p.m. - #4/#5 winner vs. #1 Skidmore
4:30 p.m. - #3/#6 winner vs. #2 St. Lawrence

Championship (Sunday, February 24 – at Skidmore College)
2:00 p.m. – semifinal winners
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 20, 2019, 03:11:28 AM
Ithaca 88, RPI 74
Hobart 89, Bard 72

Saturday
Hobart vs. No 2 SLU
Ithaca vs No 1 Skidmore
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on February 20, 2019, 03:26:16 PM
Quote from: thebear on February 15, 2019, 05:30:51 PM
If you were a parent, of a 6-6 to 6-10 smart, decently athletic kid, who while a good player, wasn't getting a lot of Mid-Major D-I love, and had decent grades.  If a top 50 liberal arts college recruited that kid, most of those schools have nice endowments, and probably special talent admissions, and possibly scholarships; not to mention great alumni conenctions, then of course that kid is going to go to either the NESCAC or the UAA...  Is a student athlete going to have better post college career opportunities going to a Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Wash U, Emory, or Middlebury vs. riding the bench at Siena or Iona, on probably less than full scholarship.

Hmmm.

My third largest client (I've got over $12 million of his assets) is an Iona graduate, so I have a different look at these types of things having hired and fired people, and managed tjhe assets of folks from all different types of institutions of higher learning, from the on paper, "elite" colleges and universities, to run-of-the-mill state schools. But specific to your question, substitute the Patriot League as a mid-major option, for Siena and Iona.

Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette, Boston U, Colgate, American, along with West Point and the Naval Academy are all very much on par with the NESCAC schools, the service academies probably even more so, if he/she can cut the mustard. Certainly the Ivies, as a D-1 Mid-major conference speaks for itself, nor would he go wrong at mid-major schools such as Binghamton, Duquense, George Washington, Fordham, Hofstra, William & Mary, Drexel and Rider. If he's right on the cusp of mid-major love...................I hope that his coach is working hard on his behalf as their are a lot of excellent schools with solid basketball programs, especially in the Northeast. Have you considered (or been told to consider) a PG year? A good friend of mine has a son who was a four year starter at PG for Villanova. He's on an NBA roster and might stick for years as a glue guy. The younger son lit it up in high school and was getting offers, but a smidge below where they all had hoped. He is doing a PG year. He's bigger, stronger, quicker and the offers have come from schools that weren't around a year ago. It's going to save dad about $220K+ depending on his final decision. Good luck to your boy!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 03:38:02 PM
The third public NCAA Division III regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-third
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 23, 2019, 02:42:02 PM
SLU looks pretty well done for.  Can't hit a shot to save their lives against Hobart, and teams rarely beat a team 3 times in the same season.   Very disappointing final 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 23, 2019, 03:39:40 PM
And as I fully expected, SLU ends their season with a pathetic wimper.   What an extremely disappointing finish to what was a great turn around season.  The seniors did not show up the last 2 weeks of the season.  All started when they blew a 6 point lead with less than a minute left against Skidmore.    Hobart seniors showed the SLU seniors how it's done.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 24, 2019, 09:05:32 AM
Happy to see the Statesmen with a chance today to avenge last year's 63-60 loss to Skidmore in Geneva in the LL tournament to end a great 21-5 regular season without an expected NCAA appearance. Perhaps it is the Statesmen's turn for a road upset and an NCAA berth. We will see. Great game by the seniors as they tamped down any spurt by the Saints. I have to admit I was not optimistic against the length of SLU as they played tough D against Hobart in the earlier games. Tables were turned today as the Saints had a bad shooting day and the Hobart team came out fired up with a "will not be denied" look in their eyes( I took an unplanned drive to see the game live and the Statesmen had quite the fan support for a road game).
  Hopefully the intensity will continue today against Skidmore, and the Statesmen can even the score a year later in the Horses' house.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: With Age Comes Wisdom? on February 24, 2019, 10:40:28 AM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on February 20, 2019, 03:26:16 PM
Quote from: thebear on February 15, 2019, 05:30:51 PM
If you were a parent, of a 6-6 to 6-10 smart, decently athletic kid, who while a good player, wasn't getting a lot of Mid-Major D-I love, and had decent grades.  If a top 50 liberal arts college recruited that kid, most of those schools have nice endowments, and probably special talent admissions, and possibly scholarships; not to mention great alumni conenctions, then of course that kid is going to go to either the NESCAC or the UAA...  Is a student athlete going to have better post college career opportunities going to a Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Wash U, Emory, or Middlebury vs. riding the bench at Siena or Iona, on probably less than full scholarship.

Hmmm.

My third largest client (I've got over $12 million of his assets) is an Iona graduate, so I have a different look at these types of things having hired and fired people, and managed tjhe assets of folks from all different types of institutions of higher learning, from the on paper, "elite" colleges and universities, to run-of-the-mill state schools. But specific to your question, substitute the Patriot League as a mid-major option, for Siena and Iona.

Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette, Boston U, Colgate, American, along with West Point and the Naval Academy are all very much on par with the NESCAC schools, the service academies probably even more so, if he/she can cut the mustard. Certainly the Ivies, as a D-1 Mid-major conference speaks for itself, nor would he go wrong at mid-major schools such as Binghamton, Duquense, George Washington, Fordham, Hofstra, William & Mary, Drexel and Rider. If he's right on the cusp of mid-major love...................I hope that his coach is working hard on his behalf as their are a lot of excellent schools with solid basketball programs, especially in the Northeast. Have you considered (or been told to consider) a PG year? A good friend of mine has a son who was a four year starter at PG for Villanova. He's on an NBA roster and might stick for years as a glue guy. The younger son lit it up in high school and was getting offers, but a smidge below where they all had hoped. He is doing a PG year. He's bigger, stronger, quicker and the offers have come from schools that weren't around a year ago. It's going to save dad about $220K+ depending on his final decision. Good luck to your boy!
jmcozenlaw u took the words right out of my mouth...  great schools, great connections, and still maybe a chance to play at the dome or the garden or the palestra??  You can't teach 6'10" ... lol  ( Might have added Holy Cross to your list?)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2019, 05:05:15 PM
Skidmore beat Hobart easily to win the LL title. At least we'll send our best team out there, even if it's our only one.

Still hoping for 3 bids from the women's side, btw. Ithaca auto, RIT should be solid at-large and I'm still thinking Vassar has a chance, even if their own website doesn't. VC's recap of the semifinal loss to RIT had a decided air of finality to it that seemed a tad cynical to me.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 24, 2019, 07:06:09 PM
Congrats to Skidmore, they left no doubt today .  You deserve the NCAA spot and have the best chance to represent the LL this year! Good luck.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on February 25, 2019, 02:57:56 PM
I like the first round draw of MIT for Skidmore.  Nice test of LL team vs one of the better teams in NE
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 25, 2019, 03:33:49 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2019, 05:05:15 PM
Skidmore beat Hobart easily to win the LL title. At least we'll send our best team out there, even if it's our only one.

Still hoping for 3 bids from the women's side, btw. Ithaca auto, RIT should be solid at-large and I'm still thinking Vassar has a chance, even if their own website doesn't. VC's recap of the semifinal loss to RIT had a decided air of finality to it that seemed a tad cynical to me.

Vassar women indeed in. Somebody edit that gamer!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 27, 2019, 01:57:56 PM
Liberty League postseason awards:
https://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2019/2/25/liberty-league-announces-2018-19-mens-basketball-awards.aspx

Rupkus is just an amazing player (so clutch) and he's apparently an amazing student, too. Impressive. Skidmore just wears everyone out. First it was Medunjanin. Then Rupkus. It'll be Meren for the next two years. And the careers of these great players always overlap. Great job by Burke.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 27, 2019, 05:12:56 PM
Congratulations to all of the All League selections. Great careers from Hobart Seniors Colin Dougherty and Jamal Lucas. Good Luck to Skidmore this weekend .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 01, 2019, 03:58:57 PM
Good luck to Skidmore ....beat MIT!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2019, 07:18:53 PM
welp, time for WBB/spring sports/waiting for football season
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 01, 2019, 07:25:07 PM
Skidmore made a run late in the game to get it to 12, but MIT was a force on the offensive boards. 

Will be interesting to see how next year shapes up.  There's a lot firepower graduation this year with Skidmore losing a core group, as does Hobart and SLU. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 02, 2019, 08:22:08 AM
The LL will lose some special talent to graduation, hopefully the recruiting efforts this year will replenish the talent. Skidmore gave it a go but MIT showed what a ranked team looks like.....message to the LL coaches.....recruit, recruit, recruit
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: With Age Comes Wisdom? on March 04, 2019, 08:11:25 AM
Quote from: Bartman on March 02, 2019, 08:22:08 AM
The LL will lose some special talent to graduation, hopefully the recruiting efforts this year will replenish the talent. Skidmore gave it a go but MIT showed what a ranked team looks like.....message to the LL coaches.....recruit, recruit, recruit
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

It can be done..see how former LL Coach Stockwell at former LL school Hamilton has achieved success!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on April 24, 2019, 01:53:52 PM
Hoopsville/McHugh reporting that Hobart is looking for another coach. Sweeney headed to Conn College ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CCHoopster on April 25, 2019, 11:24:47 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on April 24, 2019, 01:53:52 PM
Hoopsville/McHugh reporting that Hobart is looking for another coach. Sweeney headed to Conn College ...

Anyone think Izzi Metz would consider a return? I think the assistant should get the first interview.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: gordonmann on April 25, 2019, 05:47:40 PM
He has done a nice job at Wilkes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on April 25, 2019, 07:16:12 PM
Quote from: CCHoopster on April 25, 2019, 11:24:47 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on April 24, 2019, 01:53:52 PM
Hoopsville/McHugh reporting that Hobart is looking for another coach. Sweeney headed to Conn College ...

Anyone think Izzi Metz would consider a return? I think the assistant should get the first interview.

would Leone, [also U of R grad] follow a similar path to Stockwell, and having established bonafides at a SUNY School, move to the private sector, where there are more recruiting assets?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 26, 2019, 03:03:56 PM
Quote from: thebear on April 25, 2019, 07:16:12 PM
Quote from: CCHoopster on April 25, 2019, 11:24:47 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on April 24, 2019, 01:53:52 PM
Hoopsville/McHugh reporting that Hobart is looking for another coach. Sweeney headed to Conn College ...

Anyone think Izzi Metz would consider a return? I think the assistant should get the first interview.

would Leone, [also U of R grad] follow a similar path to Stockwell, and having established bonafides at a SUNY School, move to the private sector, where there are more recruiting assets?

Leone could certainly be interested. I haven't talked to him ... but if he wants to challenge himself, I think that's an option. I think it's an option for a lot of schools. That said, I think Hobart has shown that the region has a larger problem with recruiting. Staying in the region and going from a state to a private school could really be a significant challenge ... it might keep some coaches from being interested.

Per the Metz idea, I don't see why he wouldn't be interested, either. I know he has been in the running for a few jobs the last few years. I can't remember if he has turned any of them down .. but he's been in the mix.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 26, 2019, 03:27:11 PM
I don't know how long it takes to vest in the State of New York pension system (and this is an assumption that there is one) but that may also be a factor.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on April 26, 2019, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 26, 2019, 03:03:56 PM
Quote from: thebear on April 25, 2019, 07:16:12 PM
Quote from: CCHoopster on April 25, 2019, 11:24:47 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on April 24, 2019, 01:53:52 PM
Hoopsville/McHugh reporting that Hobart is looking for another coach. Sweeney headed to Conn College ...

Anyone think Izzi Metz would consider a return? I think the assistant should get the first interview.

would Leone, [also U of R grad] follow a similar path to Stockwell, and having established bonafides at a SUNY School, move to the private sector, where there are more recruiting assets?

Leone could certainly be interested. I haven't talked to him ... but if he wants to challenge himself, I think that's an option. I think it's an option for a lot of schools. That said, I think Hobart has shown that the region has a larger problem with recruiting. Staying in the region and going from a state to a private school could really be a significant challenge ... it might keep some coaches from being interested.

Per the Metz idea, I don't see why he wouldn't be interested, either. I know he has been in the running for a few jobs the last few years. I can't remember if he has turned any of them down .. but he's been in the mix.

Are you suggesting that it is harder to recruit to a Private institution in NY, than a state school?  Are you basing that on tuition cost??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saratoga on April 26, 2019, 03:46:49 PM

The New York state pension system is probably the best & most solvent in the country.

AAAA rated.

10 years to vest.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 27, 2019, 12:03:37 AM
Quote from: Oline89 on April 26, 2019, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on April 26, 2019, 03:03:56 PM
Quote from: thebear on April 25, 2019, 07:16:12 PM
Quote from: CCHoopster on April 25, 2019, 11:24:47 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on April 24, 2019, 01:53:52 PM
Hoopsville/McHugh reporting that Hobart is looking for another coach. Sweeney headed to Conn College ...

Anyone think Izzi Metz would consider a return? I think the assistant should get the first interview.

would Leone, [also U of R grad] follow a similar path to Stockwell, and having established bonafides at a SUNY School, move to the private sector, where there are more recruiting assets?

Leone could certainly be interested. I haven't talked to him ... but if he wants to challenge himself, I think that's an option. I think it's an option for a lot of schools. That said, I think Hobart has shown that the region has a larger problem with recruiting. Staying in the region and going from a state to a private school could really be a significant challenge ... it might keep some coaches from being interested.

Per the Metz idea, I don't see why he wouldn't be interested, either. I know he has been in the running for a few jobs the last few years. I can't remember if he has turned any of them down .. but he's been in the mix.

Are you suggesting that it is harder to recruit to a Private institution in NY, than a state school?  Are you basing that on tuition cost??

Nope ... I am saying that recruiting in New York in general has gotten more difficult. There have been a variety of reasons, but I have had many conversations with NY coaches who talk about the challenges and how much has changed in the last decade or so. It has result in less national contenders than in the past (to say it simply; maybe too simply).

The success of schools, like Hobart, has waned. I don't think that is because of the coaches or their recruiting. I think things in NY (and slightly beyond) have changed. Teams don't seem to be getting the same talent, or depth of talent, they used to get in the past. The talent also may not be as deep in the state, either. More and more New York schools are now recruiting in a much larger footprint as a result as well.

That all said, Leone seems to have found some solid consistency at Oswego. They always seem to be at least in the SUNYAC conversation and pop up on the Top 25 nearly every year. While I am sure a job like Hobart is hard to resist, I think the recruiting to that school would be radically different. Not because of tuition costs, but because the type of players, compared to Oswego, are very different. That is just my opinion. I could be dead wrong ... but that's based on many conversations with many current and former coaches in that region.

Of course, it isn't like Leone is unfamiliar with all of this. I am not trying to speak for him - again, I haven't talked to him. He and the rest know this region pretty well.

I am also not considering the tuition game and such - because it is a game and I know full well how that's working for both sides.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: nyhoopstalk on May 02, 2019, 08:35:41 PM
I have watched my fair share of NY/NJ hoops for awhile now and I must say the quality of New York high school hoops in general has declined. The talent isn't as spread out as much and you see many of the borderline D1 guys you used to see falling to the D3 ranks ending up at prep school. Another issue is you see alot of top D3 prospects in NY end up at NESCAC schools and not going to the SUNY/CUNY schools. A NY kid going to a LL school in NY may not be as enticing anymore when you factor in the price of some of these schools and the packages that some of these NESCAC and SUNY schools can offer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on May 03, 2019, 08:27:15 PM
In my Humble Opinion, SUNY Schools are getting kids that don't qualify academically/can't afford [after financial aid] NESCAC/LL/Empire 8 Schools.  e.g. Hamilton [only NY NESCAC School] total cost of attendance $56,935 for 2019-2020.  St. Lawrence [LL] $70.630, Ithaca College [E8] $62,757, SUNY Potsdam $24,113. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on May 03, 2019, 08:30:58 PM
Quote from: saratoga on April 26, 2019, 03:46:49 PM

The New York state pension system is probably the best & most solvent in the country.

AAAA rated.

10 years to vest.

Having just retired, 10 years to vest for health insurance, but pension only maxes at age 62.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on May 05, 2019, 05:35:24 PM
Quote from: thebear on May 03, 2019, 08:27:15 PM
In my Humble Opinion, SUNY Schools are getting kids that don't qualify academically/can't afford [after financial aid] NESCAC/LL/Empire 8 Schools.  e.g. Hamilton [only NY NESCAC School] total cost of attendance $56,935 for 2019-2020.  St. Lawrence [LL] $70.630, Ithaca College [E8] $62,757, SUNY Potsdam $24,113.

Hamilton College:Tuition: $55,970
Room: $7,850
Board (Meals): $6,510
Student Activity Fee: $560
Total Comprehensive Fee: $70,890

I didn't want to let them off too easy....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 06, 2019, 06:57:05 AM
Quote from: Oline89 on May 05, 2019, 05:35:24 PM
Quote from: thebear on May 03, 2019, 08:27:15 PM
In my Humble Opinion, SUNY Schools are getting kids that don't qualify academically/can't afford [after financial aid] NESCAC/LL/Empire 8 Schools.  e.g. Hamilton [only NY NESCAC School] total cost of attendance $56,935 for 2019-2020.  St. Lawrence [LL] $70.630, Ithaca College [E8] $62,757, SUNY Potsdam $24,113.

Hamilton College:Tuition: $55,970
Room: $7,850
Board (Meals): $6,510
Student Activity Fee: $560
Total Comprehensive Fee: $70,890

I didn't want to let them off too easy....

That's actually an incredibly reasonable room and board package.  I'm surprised it's so standard.  I guess all the fluff gets built into tuition, huh?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 08, 2019, 11:18:11 PM
Not sure if anyone saw this yet but Paul Grinde from Vassar is grad transferring to Clemson as a preferred walk on.   Great news for him.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on May 09, 2019, 08:48:13 PM
Skidmore star Noah Meren leaving for Brown.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: nyhoopstalk on May 22, 2019, 08:46:07 PM
The Liberty League is going to look very different next year with the departures from Skidmore and Hobart. The LL could be wide open.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 23, 2019, 10:37:25 AM
Quote from: nyhoopstalk on May 22, 2019, 08:46:07 PM
The Liberty League is going to look very different next year with the departures from Skidmore and Hobart. The LL could be wide open.

For one hot second I thought you were saying Skidmore and Hobart are leaving the league, and I was wondering how that could be possible on such a short time frame. Then I realized you were talking about individual players graduating. :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 23, 2019, 02:16:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 23, 2019, 10:37:25 AM
Quote from: nyhoopstalk on May 22, 2019, 08:46:07 PM
The Liberty League is going to look very different next year with the departures from Skidmore and Hobart. The LL could be wide open.

For one hot second I thought you were saying Skidmore and Hobart are leaving the league, and I was wondering how that could be possible on such a short time frame. Then I realized you were talking about individual players graduating. :)

Considering the news you and I have been working the last few years ... I absolutely went in the same direction you did. LOL
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: nyhoopstalk on May 23, 2019, 06:07:53 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 23, 2019, 10:37:25 AM
Quote from: nyhoopstalk on May 22, 2019, 08:46:07 PM
The Liberty League is going to look very different next year with the departures from Skidmore and Hobart. The LL could be wide open.

For one hot second I thought you were saying Skidmore and Hobart are leaving the league, and I was wondering how that could be possible on such a short time frame. Then I realized you were talking about individual players graduating. :)


Sorry! Yes, I was referring to players graduating and also Hobart losing their head coach.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on May 26, 2019, 05:06:59 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 23, 2019, 02:16:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 23, 2019, 10:37:25 AM
Quote from: nyhoopstalk on May 22, 2019, 08:46:07 PM
The Liberty League is going to look very different next year with the departures from Skidmore and Hobart. The LL could be wide open.

For one hot second I thought you were saying Skidmore and Hobart are leaving the league, and I was wondering how that could be possible on such a short time frame. Then I realized you were talking about individual players graduating. :)


Considering the news you and I have been working the last few years ... I absolutely went in the same direction you did. LOL

You and the Guru getting jumpy! ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 28, 2019, 02:14:57 PM
Quote from: magicman on May 26, 2019, 05:06:59 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 23, 2019, 02:16:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 23, 2019, 10:37:25 AM
Quote from: nyhoopstalk on May 22, 2019, 08:46:07 PM
The Liberty League is going to look very different next year with the departures from Skidmore and Hobart. The LL could be wide open.

For one hot second I thought you were saying Skidmore and Hobart are leaving the league, and I was wondering how that could be possible on such a short time frame. Then I realized you were talking about individual players graduating. :)


Considering the news you and I have been working the last few years ... I absolutely went in the same direction you did. LOL

You and the Guru getting jumpy! ;D

Honestly, yes. I've gotten calls or texts randomly from some people where I have taken a deep breathe before answering ... because alarm bells start going off. Luckily, most of those calls of late have not been of that kind of nature ... but it has been those kinds of calls or texts the last few years that have led us down some crazy roads.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 31, 2019, 09:38:46 PM
I think Union will end up having a strong season next year.   They were on the cusp this season but have some young players that started to contribute at the end of this season.  Skidmore still should be pretty good but they are definitely not a lock for first.  I'm pretty low on Hobart, but anything can happen.  I really don't know what to think about my alma mater SLU.  We lose some pretty good seniors, but we also had a lot of young contributors this year including the LL rookie of the year.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on June 02, 2019, 09:29:41 AM
Ithaca should also be strong in the Liberty League next season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 02, 2019, 02:20:17 PM
Not quite sure I'm sold on Ithaca yet.  They lose Ezema and Flood, the former being extremely hard to replace.  Thompson is back but he can be streaky.  They are a young team and could end up near the top but I'm not sold quite yet.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: nyhoopstalk on June 03, 2019, 09:34:52 PM
Quote from: stlawus on May 31, 2019, 09:38:46 PM
I think Union will end up having a strong season next year.   They were on the cusp this season but have some young players that started to contribute at the end of this season.  Skidmore still should be pretty good but they are definitely not a lock for first.  I'm pretty low on Hobart, but anything can happen.  I really don't know what to think about my alma mater SLU.  We lose some pretty good seniors, but we also had a lot of young contributors this year including the LL rookie of the year.

I would not be surprised to see Bard and St. Lawrence in the top 4 next year. Bard may have the best backcourt in the league next year. Not sure if that is an indictment of the LL or a compliment to Bard. St. Lawrence should have some good, young talent back next year as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 20, 2019, 04:36:06 PM
Excellent recruiting class this year for SLU.  I was originally bearish on their prospects this year but I think they'll be competing or a LL regular season title.    Ithaca returns their top 2 scorers so right now I think they're favored.   Hobart loses some all time greats but still bring back Lescoe and Fleurizard.   You can never count out Skidmore,  but with Rupkus, Meren, Ta, Byrne and Yiljep leaving that's quite a tall task to replace.     When I watched Union play at the end of the season last year they were very impressive and I was shocked at their record.  They don't lose much and could turn some heads this year.  Same goes for Bard.      RPI loses Horvat and I'm not sure they'll improve much.  Until RIT proves us otherwise they won't be making noise.  Clarkson returns most of their scoring but they are very inconsistent.  I could see them finishing .500 in the league.   It will in all likelihood be a rough year for Vassar.   They lose Grinde and Seff and graduated practically all of their size. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 21, 2019, 07:33:36 AM
Some news on the Bard front. The entire starting five are gone. Three graduations and two transfers. Back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 21, 2019, 11:13:48 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on October 21, 2019, 07:33:36 AM
Some news on the Bard front. The entire starting five are gone. Three graduations and two transfers. Back to the drawing board.

not great, Bob
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 21, 2019, 03:07:03 PM
Bard athletics just can't catch a break.  The soccer team was on the rise a few years ago and then the coach tragically passed away, and now hoops loses a strong guard foundation that had upset teams like Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 24, 2019, 02:54:05 PM
I don't know how typical it is to lose this many good players in one off-season, but here's the All-League guys from 2018-19:

ALL-LIBERTY LEAGUE FIRST TEAM:
Colin Dougherty, Sr., G, Hobart (graduated)
Tom Horvat, Sr., G, RPI (graduated)
Noah Meren, So., G, Skidmore (transferred)
Riley Naclerio, Gr., F, St. Lawrence (graduated)
Edvinas Rupkus, Sr., G, Skidmore (graduated)

ALL-LIBERTY LEAGUE SECOND TEAM:
Peter Ezema, Sr., F, Ithaca (graduated)
Jamal Lucas, Sr., G, Hobart (graduated)
Justyn Rogers, So., G, Bard (transferred)
Alijah Rue, So., G, Bard (transferred)
Riley Thompson, Jr., G, Ithaca

ALL-LIBERTY LEAGUE HONORABLE MENTION:
Sebastian Alderete, Jr., G, Ithaca
Ben Crawford, Sr., F, St. Lawrence (graduated)
Patrick Mahoney, So., F, RPI
Alex Seff, Sr., G, Vassar (graduated)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 24, 2019, 05:01:36 PM

Looks like Ithaca is sitting pretty.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on October 24, 2019, 05:08:47 PM
d3d3d3,

Do you know who Noah Meron will be playing for?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 24, 2019, 05:09:09 PM
Quote from: magicman on October 24, 2019, 05:08:47 PM
d3d3d3,

Do you know who Noah Meron will be playing for?

Ivy League.  Brown, right?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on October 24, 2019, 05:12:03 PM
Yes, I just went back a page and saw that d3d3d3 had posted back in May that he was leaving for Brown. Thanks, Ryan and thanks d3d3d3.  plus K.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 24, 2019, 05:46:11 PM
Meren will sit this season out. Eligible for the 2020-21 season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 24, 2019, 10:19:19 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 24, 2019, 05:01:36 PM

Looks like Ithaca is sitting pretty.

this season will test the irresistible force/unmovable object hypothesis vis-a-vis IC men's basketball. Despite all the other teams but his being wiped clean of All-Stars, will Jim Mullins still find a way to finish .500? Probably!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 26, 2019, 08:20:58 PM
My way too early preseason rankings:

1. Ithaca
2. SLU
3. Hobart
4. Skidmore
5. Union
6. RPI
7. Clarkson
8. RIT
9. Bard
10. Vassar
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 07, 2019, 02:06:27 PM
2019-20 LIBERTY LEAGUE MEN'S BASKETBALL PRESEASON POLL

1. Ithaca, 76 (5)
2. Skidmore, 70 (2)
3. Hobart, 66 (3)
4. Union, 57
5. St. Lawrence, 50
6. RPI, 41
7. Clarkson, 33
8. Vassar, 26
9. RIT, 22
10. Bard, 9

(First-place votes are in parentheses)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2019, 06:27:54 PM
With so much roster turnover I don't see any reason to complain about these rankings.   Any one of the top 5 teams in that list can win the league IMO.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 08, 2019, 08:32:10 AM
Hartwick at Union and Becker at Bard get the LL 2019-20 men's hoops season rolling tonight.

Union should win at home as Hartwick's best days seem to be behind it; Bard will at least get some kind of baseline for its young and small roster against what was a pretty poor Becker team a year ago.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 08, 2019, 10:08:50 PM
Union wins by 9; Bard falls by 5 in OT. The Raptors only played 7 guys and I think I saw they only have 10 total. Hoo boy.

Jackson Mannix, who feels like he's been at Union since 2008, scored 17 to lead the Dutchmen past 'Wick.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 12, 2019, 01:12:32 PM
5 games on tap tonight where 5-0 ought not to be out of the realm of possibility.

Potsdam at St. Lawrence
Union at St. John Fisher
Clarkson at SUNY Canton
Skidmore at Hartwick
Wells at RIT
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on November 12, 2019, 04:39:42 PM
Bears at SLU, last year Bears prevailed 90-77 at Jerry Welsh Gymnasium.

Scene shifts to Burkman Gym at Canton tonight.

SLU loses three starters, Naclerio, Crawford and Miner, plus top outside shooter Dom DeRegis

Potsdam loses three starters, Langley, Onabor, and Kane.

Hope to be there, should be an interesting game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 12, 2019, 05:50:44 PM
Injuries to both centers for SLU tonight, if Potsdam wins this game it will be in the paint.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 12, 2019, 06:54:06 PM
SLU gave up 63 points. In the first half ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 12, 2019, 06:56:12 PM
Potsdam taking advantage of open shots against the zone.  SLU injuries are also killing them in the paint. Both 6'10" centers are out for this game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 12, 2019, 07:41:27 PM
Hicks injured early in the 2nd half cements a brutal start to the season.   Both centers already injured and the team's best player gets injured to boot. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 12, 2019, 07:57:57 PM
Nice win for Potsdam, lights out shooting in the first half win the game.  SLU very banged up, would have liked to seen this game at full strength.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 12, 2019, 08:56:05 PM
Canton 60, Clarkson 52
Potsdam 84, SLU 74
Union 89, St. John Fisher 71
Hartwick 66, Skidmore 56
RIT 79, Wells 70
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on November 12, 2019, 09:39:02 PM
Nice win for Union [my graduate alma mater] over preseason Top 25 [or so] SJF.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 12, 2019, 09:41:50 PM
I was very impressed with Union last year.  I have no idea why their record was as bad as it was.   They beat SLU at Burkman and then lost to Clarkson which knocked them out of LL playoff contention. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 13, 2019, 08:43:50 PM
Hobart rallies for an impressive road win at NYU, 80-76
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 15, 2019, 10:31:54 AM
November 15 games, let's get neutral y'all

Bard vs. Trinity (Conn.) - at UMass Dartmouth
Ithaca vs. Oswego - at Elmira
Vassar vs. Fredonia - at Nazareth
Clarkson at Alfred State
RPI vs. Rutgers-Newark - at Westfield State

if the LL went 2-3 the other night when I thought 5-0 was possible, then tonight this crapshack may go 0-5.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on November 15, 2019, 05:28:24 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 15, 2019, 10:31:54 AM
November 15 games, let's get neutral y'all

Bard vs. Trinity (Conn.) - at UMass Dartmouth
Ithaca vs. Oswego - at Elmira
Vassar vs. Fredonia - at Nazareth
Clarkson at Alfred State
RPI vs. Rutgers-Newark - at Westfield State

if the LL went 2-3 the other night when I thought 5-0 was possible, then tonight this crapshack may go 0-5.

Trinity NESCAC should prevail over Bard
Oswego brings back 3 starters and adds a D-I xfer and a wide body
Vassar should prevail over Fredonia
Clarkson lost to Canton the other night, Alfred State is a similar team
RPI on a neutral court should have the edge.

I would say 2-3, Magic will have a more thorough analysis.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 15, 2019, 07:39:22 PM
Early returns aren't good. Yikes:

Trinity 93, Bard 74
Oswego 85, Ithaca 80
Vassar down 10 with 3 mins left vs. Fredonia
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on November 15, 2019, 07:45:22 PM
I'm seeing 62-54 Vassar with 9 seconds left.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on November 15, 2019, 07:48:54 PM
But apparently the hosts have screwed up the rosters, so it is Fredonia 62- Vassar 54 with :07 left.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on November 15, 2019, 08:02:27 PM
Final Fredonia 64 Vassar 56
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 15, 2019, 09:30:39 PM
Clarkson 73, Alfred State 65
Rutgers-Newark 61, RPI 58 (RPI up 29-16 at half)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 15, 2019, 09:52:31 PM
how does this conference just keep getting worse every year?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on November 16, 2019, 11:42:12 AM
Part of the Problem is that the LL is five [RIT, Union, RPI, SLU, Clarkson] D-I hockey schools [that's the major revenue sport] with a bunch of D-III programs that have some degree of success regionally.  They also have Ithaca which is a Big PE school and has a perennial D-III football power.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 16, 2019, 03:51:24 PM
Stevens 67, Skidmore 55
Husson 80, Bard 68
Ithaca 86, Elmira 56
Vassar 72, Hunter 66
Westfield State 78, RPI 52
RIT up 20 at half over D'Youville
Clarkson plays later
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on November 17, 2019, 09:38:55 PM
What an embarrassing opening weekend for RPI....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 19, 2019, 07:21:31 PM
Still injuries to the SLU front court.  Won't know how good this team is until they're healthy.   Although I will say, it may be that some of these guys are suspended.   Freeman and Huntley didn't look injured last week, and they're shooting around in warm ups (although not playing) and don't appear as if anything is wrong with them.   Karera is definitely still injured but the rest of these guys actually don't look hurt.   Still, until Freeman plays we won't know how good this team actually is.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 19, 2019, 08:47:21 PM
Downs is absolutely killing me with this zone.  This is a winnable game against Plattsburgh and the zone is losing it.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 19, 2019, 09:11:32 PM
If Downs plays man to man he's likely 2-0 against 2 decent teams right now instead of 0-2.  The zone is absolutely KILLING the season.   They've given up 23 threes in 2 games.   This is ridiculous.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 19, 2019, 09:23:56 PM
Brockport 75, Hobart 74
Ithaca 77, Cortland 74
RPI 80, Cobleskill 60
Plattsburgh 89, SLU 84
Oswego 80, Clarkson 72
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 19, 2019, 09:36:49 PM
In 2017-2018 SLU went 5-20 and allowed on average almost 11 threes a game.   So far through 2 games they've allowed 23 threes.   This team is miles better than it was 2 years ago, so I won't call it a wash yet especially since both 6-10 centers have yet to play, but this is honestly ridiculous.  I'm not naive enough to think SLU potentially could have got an at-large bid going into this season, but these are 2 games they should have won that would have helped their resume.  I simply do not understand the point of cutting your nose to spite your face in order to lose 2 games you should have won. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 19, 2019, 11:35:29 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on November 19, 2019, 09:23:56 PM
Brockport 75, Hobart 74
Ithaca 77, Cortland 74
RPI 80, Cobleskill 60
Plattsburgh 89, SLU 84
Oswego 80, Clarkson 72

woooooo double jug wooooo

(hand to ear) I'm being told the Bomber women also defeated the Scarlet Lizards. Triple Jug Baybeeeeee wooooooo
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on November 20, 2019, 11:13:51 AM
Who is this Riley Thompson going off for Ithaca? He doesn't look like a physically imposing player but the stats look like he is a handful!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 20, 2019, 11:44:17 AM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on December 03, 2018, 10:22:45 AM
Who in the hell is this Riley Thompson tearing it up for Ithaca so far? Did he come out of nowhere or was this expected? He doesn't exactly impress physically but his scoring numbers and shooting percentages are insane. Any thoughts by those who have seen him this year or in the past?

I imagine he's the same guy he was when you asked the exact same question nearly exactly 1 year ago. Curious.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 20, 2019, 12:29:27 PM
OUCH
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on November 20, 2019, 01:27:02 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 20, 2019, 11:44:17 AM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on December 03, 2018, 10:22:45 AM
Who in the hell is this Riley Thompson tearing it up for Ithaca so far? Did he come out of nowhere or was this expected? He doesn't exactly impress physically but his scoring numbers and shooting percentages are insane. Any thoughts by those who have seen him this year or in the past?

I imagine he's the same guy he was when you asked the exact same question nearly exactly 1 year ago. Curious.

Oh Caz, you are a cutiepie aren't you. I got squatta from this board a year ago (you have far too much time on your hands to go back a year and check a chat board............yick) and I guess that I will get squatta again this year, especially from you.

I was asking the question again as Ithaca is thought of very highly in the decent LL this year. Compared to the studs and their body types who moved out (some up a level or two), the question came after checking the boxscores and looking at his stat line.

Also, if you must know, an assistant coach of a team that you should know very well made a similar comment to my question. Watching the kid in warmup's, you'd never think he'd do much damage. I wanted the perspective of a LL basketball genius such as yourself.........but won't hold my breath. ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on November 20, 2019, 01:29:51 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on November 20, 2019, 12:29:27 PM
OUCH

OUCH?? I do the love the all caps second stringer (I smell a millenial). But OUCH is reserved for those who went and stayed long TVIX (might be way over your head).....................and those who have the time on their hands to go back a year on a LL board (when they didn't know enough to answer it the first go round).

THAT is OUCH........and YICK. ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 20, 2019, 01:57:16 PM
You're coming after me for laughing about this? It's hilarious. He made a fool out of you. Maybe you should (1) be upset with him, (2) stop trying to get everyone to talk about a player you clearly have a connection to, or (3) ignore it because there's no response that will make it seem like you're not a Riley Thompson fanboy.

That said, Riley Thompson is a very good player. One of the best players in the league this year. Does that make you feel better? Can you stop now? Or do you need to ask us all again who he is, where he came from, and aren't we amazed that he can do it even though he's not very tall?

PS: I'm 56.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 20, 2019, 02:14:11 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 03, 2018, 09:14:10 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on December 03, 2018, 10:22:45 AM
Who in the hell is this Riley Thompson tearing it up for Ithaca so far? Did he come out of nowhere or was this expected? He doesn't exactly impress physically but his scoring numbers and shooting percentages are insane. Any thoughts by those who have seen him this year or in the past?

his numbers aren't far off what he did last year, he was 42 percent from three, dunno if he's gonna keep shooting over 50 percent from distance all year. What do I know, the one game I saw Thompson play in person last year, he missed every shot he took.

Ithaca always has some non-descript guard put up video game numbers on a .500 team. It's the Jim Mullins Way.

OK then sweetheart, here's how you were answered the first time, are you good now, you complete psychopath?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on November 22, 2019, 01:41:58 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 20, 2019, 02:14:11 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on December 03, 2018, 09:14:10 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on December 03, 2018, 10:22:45 AM
Who in the hell is this Riley Thompson tearing it up for Ithaca so far? Did he come out of nowhere or was this expected? He doesn't exactly impress physically but his scoring numbers and shooting percentages are insane. Any thoughts by those who have seen him this year or in the past?

his numbers aren't far off what he did last year, he was 42 percent from three, dunno if he's gonna keep shooting over 50 percent from distance all year. What do I know, the one game I saw Thompson play in person last year, he missed every shot he took.

Ithaca always has some non-descript guard put up video game numbers on a .500 team. It's the Jim Mullins Way.

OK then sweetheart, here's how you were answered the first time, are you good now, you complete psychopath?

Get back to work Caz and put those investigative skills to use that can help all of mankind.........................vs. just line your own pocket with riches Remember to tithe though...........or it's all worth nothing in the end. :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 22, 2019, 10:12:31 PM
Nice win for Hobart tonight against Baldwin-Wallace.   BW is nowhere near as good as they were last year but they're still a solid team in a pretty good conference.   BW didn't have much of an answer to defend the drive and were forced to chuck up a lot of bad shots due to good Hobart defense.     

RPI wins a tune-up game against Mount St. Mary's, but they'll have to show us a lot more than a blowout win against a Skyline opponent. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 23, 2019, 08:11:15 PM
Hartwick 68, Vassar 59
Middlebury 73, Skidmore 56
St. John Fisher 80, RIT 70
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 26, 2019, 03:14:14 PM
This SLU zone will be the death of me.  10 minutes left and Canton had made 15 threes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 02, 2019, 09:26:32 PM
Excellent win tonight for SLU over Oswego.   Still gave up 3's but they cut down on the terrible unforced turnovers and shot much more efficiently.   One of the better wins of the last few years.   That's the SLU I've been expecting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on December 03, 2019, 11:59:38 AM
First time in a while that there are no LL teams in the Top 25 or RV category. (On the women's side, too.) Conference play starts this weekend:

Friday
Hobart at Skidmore
SLU at RPI
Ithaca at Bard
Clarkson at Union
RIT at Vassar

Saturday
RIT at Skidmore
Clarkson at RPI
SLU at Union
Hobart at Bard
Ithaca at Vassar
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: nyhoopstalk on December 04, 2019, 08:58:45 AM
I am not sure what to make of the LL this year but Hobart has had the best non-conference portion of the year of every other LL team thus far. Good wins over St. John Fisher, Rochester and Baldwin Wallace make me believe they are fully capable of winning the league this year. Early test at Skidmore will be telling. Skidmore may be better than their record after playing some tough teams to start.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 06, 2019, 08:10:33 PM
Absolutely atrocious first half by SLU against RPI.  At least 10 unforced turnovers.   Beat a ranked team and then come out playing their absolute worst game of the year thus far.   Mirror image of the game at RPI last year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 06, 2019, 09:04:07 PM
SLU just had their worst performance in at least 10 years.  There is absolutely no excuse for a performance like that coming off a win against Oswego.   Brick after brick after offensive foul after offensive foul after turnover after turnover.   I do not think RPI went more than one possession without scoring the entire 2nd half.  Just terrible. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on December 06, 2019, 10:40:43 PM
Hobart really put the squeeze on Skidmore. On the road, no less.

Hobart 67, Skidmore 43
RPI 91, SLU 54
Ithaca 85, Bard 68
RIT 77, Vassar 73
Union 74, Clarkson 57
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 07, 2019, 05:59:17 PM
This SLU team is driving me absolutely nuts.  Giving up 16 threes to Union..  Something needs to change.  That is now 78 threes allowed through 6 games, good for 13 allowed on average.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on December 07, 2019, 07:02:24 PM
Union, Hobart, Ithaca and RPI start conference play 2-0

RPI 72, Clarkson 50
Hobart 73, Bard 53
Skidmore 72, RIT 47
Union 97, SLU 84
Ithaca 103, Vassar 80
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on December 07, 2019, 07:12:37 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 07, 2019, 05:59:17 PM
This SLU team is driving me absolutely nuts.  Giving up 16 threes to Union is absolutely pathetic.  Something needs to change.  That is now 78 threes allowed through 6 games, good for 13 allowed on average.

I watched the game and what caught my attention was the play of St. Lawrence's #11 Lucas Hicks. He had 29 points and 13 rebounds and seemed to be the best player on the floor. Not really surprising as a couple of years ago Hicks was starring for Shenendehowa high school on a team with former NYS Mr. Basketball Kevin Huerter (Maryland, NBA Atlanta Hawks) as they won a NYS AA Championship. Hicks abruptly left Shen his senior year with an apparent discipline disagreement issue and I hadn't heard his name since.  Many times in high school with Huerter getting all the attention, Hicks became the go to guy and seemed to be a D1 prospect to me. St. Lawrence has found a good one in Hicks.

* Note...Lucas Hicks' father is Scott Hicks who played at my Alma mater Vernon-Verona-Sherrill high school, was John Beilein's first recruit at LeMoyne and became head coach at both UAlbany and Loyola,MD.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 07, 2019, 07:35:35 PM
Hicks had offers from West Point and Columbia, as well as an America East school I think. thankfully Downs' connection to his father helped land him.

Union has always been a thorn in SLU's side.  They impressed me last year at Burkman.  Manley is a very tough guard and if they can keep shooting like that all season they'll content for a LL title.   I am just very frustrated watching a SLU team with a lot of potential give up hoards of threes.  As I've said before, I'm still reserving judgment until we get the players that are out for a variety of reasons back into the lineup, especially Hoffman.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on December 07, 2019, 09:42:18 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 07, 2019, 07:35:35 PM
Hicks had offers from West Point and Columbia, as well as an America East school I think. thankfully Downs' connection to his father helped land him.

Union has always been a thorn in SLU's side.  They impressed me last year at Burkman.  Manley is a very tough guard and if they can keep shooting like that all season they'll content for a LL title.   I am just very frustrated watching a SLU team with a lot of potential give up hoards of threes.  As I've said before, I'm still reserving judgment until we get the players that are out for a variety of reasons back into the lineup, especially Hoffman.

Speaking of players out. Union starting guard Mike Concannon did not play this weekend. I'm not sure if it was injury related. That gave Mike Manley opportunity and he certainly stepped up with by far his best career game. I hope everyone is healthy when the Dutchmen take the North country trip in February. The LL is unpredictable as usual and seems wide open.

Union has a very balanced attack. They've played 4 games, won them all, and have had 4 different players lead the team in scoring.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on December 07, 2019, 10:35:17 PM
Concannon out with what I believe is a high ankle sprain. Union does look pretty deep this year with a young roster.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on December 08, 2019, 06:10:25 PM
Hey Caz......................that not even 6'0", 150 pounder put up back-to-back 25 point games this weekend. Yikes!!! Do I smell a possible first team Liberty League announcement come March? ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 10, 2019, 09:13:18 PM
I am simply at a loss for words with regards to this SLU team.  15 threes allowed against Clarkson, which makes two straight games allowing 15 threes. They have allowed 93 threes in 7 games, which averages out to 13 a game.  Downs apparently thinks this kind of shooting is unsustainable, so he'll continue to play zone while the team sets an NCAA record for threes allowed in a season.   The season is already practically a wash.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on December 10, 2019, 09:51:46 PM
Rochester 68, Ithaca 63
Hobart 75, Union 53
Clarkson 81, SLU 78

Rochester scored the last 10 points of that game
Hobart continues to play great defense
SLU yielding 89 ppg
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: RalphyReinbeck on December 10, 2019, 09:55:51 PM
Hi stlawus. I think you're dwelling on the 3s this season, and the zone defense isn't the only story for the Saints. Yes, they've given up a lot of 3s. But look at tonight's box score: SLU turned the ball over 20 times to Clarkson's 7. That's 13 extra possessions in a three-point game! (And 12 total since SLU had one more OREB than Clarkson.) Through 7 games, the biggest problems for SLU are their turnovers, their negative OREB margin, and their FT shooting. The truth is even after tonight, the Saints shoot it at a better clip than their opponents, both from 2FG and 3FG (and thus defend at a better rate, too). But they've taken *way* fewer total shots because they're getting out-rebounded--those early injuries hurt--and they're turning the ball over. Between OREBs and TOs, they've given their opponents 76 (!) extra possessions through seven games. They've shot worse from the FT line, too. Against Plattsburgh, they missed 9 FTs and lost by 5. Ouch.

Not sure what the reasons are, but after two months of practice, the Saints' staff has chosen zone for a reason. Isn't it possible they'd have a harder time matching up? I do think the 3 has become so integral to the game that most teams can knock down a bunch on any given night; in fact tonight, if Clarkson had made 13, the Saints would have won. But would 13 be an acceptable number? You claim that an average of 13 is too high. The problem isn't only the 3s but rather the extra possessions that lead to the 3s. 

Back in 2016-2017, when the Saints won 20 games, six of those wins came in games where they gave up 10 or more 3s to the opponent. Across those six games, they committed 15 fewer turnovers while surrendering 12 extra offensive rebounds. They won all six games with only three extra possessions. This season, through seven games, they've allowed 76 extra possessions and lost six of those games. Sounds about right. And to be honest, I don't remember if that group a few years back played mostly zone or man. But they were solid four-year players who took care of the ball on offense and could probably defend well in either system. 

I think we're seeing a young team trying to find its way. Every single minute of the season has been played by FR, SO, or JR players. They've been in six of seven games, and after the Oswego win, there was no doubt these guys can both play well and grind with good teams. Maybe they don't need to do it differently; maybe they just need to do it better. We'll see.

Go Saints!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 10, 2019, 10:03:15 PM
You make good points, I know the turnovers are really hurting them, but these threes just drive me nuts, especially when I look at the box scores of our opponents in their next games when they shoot at or below 20% from three (yes the zone will inflate numbers but still).  It is indeed a young team, and I say it every game that I am still reserving full judgment until the full team is available.  Karera would be extremely useful out on the wing defending the 3, and Hoffman will be able to alter a lot more shots in the center of the zone.  Jeffrey has played well, but Hoffman is a tree with a very long wingspan.   I also think Karera is the only one actually injured, I'm starting to think the other 3 players are suspended for the first semester.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on December 10, 2019, 11:16:53 PM
Union apparently stayed on the bus early against Hobart. The Dutchmen fell behind right from the tap and shot a dismal 15/55, 27.3%  :o for the game in losing 75-53. The only possible positive...Mike Concannon returned to the line-up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on December 30, 2019, 03:51:55 PM
Union went south, Daytona Beach 12/28,29, for games against Lycoming and Mt. Union and poor shooting again was the biggest problem. Against Lycoming the Dutchmen shot only 26%, 18/69 and a dismal 19.4%,6/31 from behind the arc in a 64-54 loss.
The next day they shot better, 40.4%, but still not good enough in a 78-65 loss to Mt. Union. A home game against always strong Williams is next before getting into the LL schedule. Since shooting is the supposed strength of this team there must be improvement for the Dutchmen to contend for a LL post season spot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 30, 2019, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on December 30, 2019, 03:51:55 PM
Union went south, Daytona Beach 12/28,29, for games against Lycoming and Mt. Union and poor shooting again was the biggest problem. Against Lycoming the Dutchmen shot only 26%, 18/69 and a dismal 19.4%,6/31 from behind the arc in a 64-54 loss.
The next day they shot better, 40.4%, but still not good enough in a 78-65 loss to Mt. Union. A home game against always strong Williams is next before getting into the LL schedule. Since shooting is the supposed strength of this team there must be improvement for the Dutchmen to contend for a LL post season spot.

How convenient Union goes cold in all of the games following their shooting performance against SLU >:(   

In all seriousness Union should still be fine as far as league play goes. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 04, 2020, 06:36:46 PM
Ithaca gets bailed out by 3 point shooting to win a close game against a fairly weak Moravian.   

Hobart is clear and away the top team right now.  We'll really know where they stand after playing Ursinus today, who took the #1 team right down the wire last month. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on January 06, 2020, 09:36:26 AM
Quote from: stlawus on January 04, 2020, 06:36:46 PM
Ithaca gets bailed out by 3 point shooting to win a close game against a fairly weak Moravian.   

Hobart is clear and away the top team right now.  We'll really know where they stand after playing Ursinus today, who took the #1 team right down the wire last month.

Thompson goes off for 36 against a much bigger and far more athletic Montclair State team. Dagg!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 06, 2020, 08:43:52 PM
In the only LL action of the night SLU beats Elmira 74-71 on the road.   Closed out the final 10 minutes with a 23-7 run.   Very nice game from Chris Jeffrey.   Key block late in the game and a huge offensive rebound on a missed FT that led to a layup.   Hicks shoots poorly but still ends up with 16/11/7.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on January 08, 2020, 09:47:48 AM
LL BBall fans, I have way more knowledge of the D3 football world than roundball, can someone help me out on why so little love shown to LL teams in the national poll?  Hobart 9-1, 3-0 with win over Rochester, received only 10 total votes? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 08, 2020, 10:49:57 AM
Rochester is not ranked, and the rest of the teams play in conferences much stronger than the LL. The CCIW, WIAC, NESCAC etc all have more quality teams and also play equally or harder OOC schedules.  Hobart is the top LL team but it is only comparable to the 3rd or 4th best team in the NESCAC.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on January 08, 2020, 10:53:34 AM
Hobart should be ranked by all objective criteria.

In the two computer rankings they are 15th http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/p/division-iii-mens-basketball-efficiency.html#predictions, and 21st https://www.masseyratings.com/cb/ncaa-d3/ratings

I think their SID needs to do a bit more to get the word on to the voters.

Their only loss is a 1 pointer at #60 Brockport, who the current favorite in the SUNYAC. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2020, 11:02:49 AM
Quote from: thebear on January 08, 2020, 10:53:34 AM
I think their SID needs to do a bit more to get the word on to the voters.

In all honesty, this has basically no impact on voters. The resume speaks for itself. Give it time and if the present trend continues, I'm sure voters will pick up on it. They are at least getting noticed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 08, 2020, 02:16:48 PM
Hobart's resume is more than a win over Rochester and what "computer ratings" say.

They also have a loss to Brockport. As a voter, I guess I should vote for Brockport before Hobart ... but then I need to consider Rochester ... and then ... forget it, I give up. (FYI - I voted for Rochester because of their result against Swarthmore and Hobart's result v Rochester was 11/26 ... a lot has changed since then. I do have Hobart on my radar, as Pat knows full well.)

Also, the schedule isn't all that compared to a lot of teams in the Top 25.

NYU (6-4) - nothing to gain here
Brockport (7-2) - loss as mentioned
Baldwin Wallace (7-4) - under-performing unfortunately
Rochester (9-2) - good win for Hobart
SJF (5-6) - not helping
Skidmore (3-7) - really not helping
Bard (0-9) - conference game that hurts
Union (5-3) - not telling anyone much
Ursinus (7-4) - could be a good win, but need to see more from Bears
Catholic (4-8) - first year head coach with a program that has faltered of late

53-49 overall opponent's record ... that's just okay. Not sure why the computers love them (other than data from last year, D1 games that can't be eliminated, etc.).

Again, I have Hobart on my radar, but I decided to wait to see how they do against RIT, Ithaca, and RPI first. Conference won't help them a ton, but those games will help voters understand what Hobart really is as a program.

And Pat is right ... SIDs "lobbying" for their teams isn't exactly the best way to tackle it. I know Hobart's SID pretty well and he wouldn't do that anyway (and the list is private as well except for those of us who reveal our ballots). However, when an SID lobbies me for their team ... I take it with a grain of salt. If they lobby too often, it can actually be a deterrent personally.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 09, 2020, 01:29:33 PM
The league just isn't great this year, something all of us have been saying from the start. All of the best players graduated or transferred. And even when the league is "great," it usually means one or two teams slide into the poll in the 18-25 range. Here are the recent results of the LL teams in the NCAA Tournament:

2019: Skidmore lost to MIT first round
2018: Union beat NJCU, lost to Plattsburgh second round
2017: Union beat Wesleyan, lost to Rochester second round
Skidmore beat NJCU, lost to Babson second round
SLU lost to St. John Fisher first round
2016: Skidmore beat F&M, lost to Tufts second round
2015: Skidmore beat Wesleyan, lost to Johns Hopkins second round
2014: Hobart beat Scranton, lost to Morrisville State second round
2013: Hobart lost to RIC first round

This may help explain why, at 9-1, the computers like Hobart but the voters not so much.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 09, 2020, 06:38:17 PM
I think SLU in 2009 is the last LL sweet 16 appearance.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on January 10, 2020, 10:03:28 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on January 09, 2020, 01:29:33 PM
The league just isn't great this year, something all of us have been saying from the start. All of the best players graduated or transferred. And even when the league is "great," it usually means one or two teams slide into the poll in the 18-25 range. Here are the recent results of the LL teams in the NCAA Tournament:

2019: Skidmore lost to MIT first round
2018: Union beat NJCU, lost to Plattsburgh second round
2017: Union beat Wesleyan, lost to Rochester second round
Skidmore beat NJCU, lost to Babson second round
SLU lost to St. John Fisher first round
2016: Skidmore beat F&M, lost to Tufts second round
2015: Skidmore beat Wesleyan, lost to Johns Hopkins second round
2014: Hobart beat Scranton, lost to Morrisville State second round
2013: Hobart lost to RIC first round

This may help explain why, at 9-1, the computers like Hobart but the voters not so much.

I thought that Thompson (36 against Montclair State a few days ago) was still at Ithaca....................and not graduated or transferred ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 11, 2020, 12:05:36 PM
If Ithaca beats Hobart today, I might start to believe they're legitimate. Having 20 years of experience with the Jim Mullins experience, however, I won't hold my breath.

Legitimate relative to the East Region, of course, which is practically JV compared to the rest of D3. Oops, sorry, I said the quiet part out loud again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 11, 2020, 05:48:32 PM
Hobart put the squeeze on Ithaca on the road, 74-65. Ithaca was averaging almost 90 ppg. Impressive from the Statesmen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 11, 2020, 05:55:20 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on January 11, 2020, 05:48:32 PM
Hobart put the squeeze on Ithaca on the road, 74-65. Ithaca was averaging almost 90 ppg. Impressive from the Statesmen.

As I was saying...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on January 12, 2020, 09:44:36 AM
With 2 nice league wins this weekend, does Hobart crack the top 25?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on January 13, 2020, 05:33:59 PM
Well I will keep pounding  for some LL love in the top 25.  Hobart WP .914, SOS .543/ Amherst WP .714, SOS .555......How does one get ranked 22 and the other "also ran", unless historical success remains a strong influence?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 13, 2020, 05:41:38 PM
Voters aren't really looking at numbers in terms of SOS, but the teams actually on the schedule. Each week, every voter gets a list of every team that a Top 25 candidate has played, with that team's record. The D3 SOS is great for at-large discussions but not for the Top 25.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2020, 05:50:17 PM
Quote from: Oline89 on January 13, 2020, 05:33:59 PM
Well I will keep pounding  for some LL love in the top 25.  Hobart WP .914, SOS .543/ Amherst WP .714, SOS .555......How does one get ranked 22 and the other "also ran", unless historical success remains a strong influence?

I voted for Hobart for a second week this week, ahead of Amherst this time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on January 13, 2020, 06:12:36 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 13, 2020, 05:41:38 PM
Voters aren't really looking at numbers in terms of SOS, but the teams actually on the schedule. Each week, every voter gets a list of every team that a Top 25 candidate has played, with that team's record. The D3 SOS is great for at-large discussions but not for the Top 25.

Gotcha...Amherst went 1-2 this week, Hobart 2-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 13, 2020, 06:18:41 PM
Quote from: Oline89 on January 13, 2020, 06:12:36 PM
Gotcha...Amherst went 1-2 this week, Hobart 2-0

The voters also know exactly who the three games were against, though, and don't just boil it down to a win-loss total.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on January 13, 2020, 08:02:13 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 13, 2020, 06:18:41 PM
Quote from: Oline89 on January 13, 2020, 06:12:36 PM
Gotcha...Amherst went 1-2 this week, Hobart 2-0

The voters also know exactly who the three games were against, though, and don't just boil it down to a win-loss total.

Fair enough, thanks for the explanation.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 13, 2020, 11:33:35 PM
To Pat's point about SOS ... that number is also all over the place right now especially when conference action hasn't even turned the corner into the second half of most double-round robins. It is an equation the NCAA committees have for at large sections... most of us voters know what it means, but it doesn't mean anything to how good a team really is.

As Pat said, we look at a lot of things. I debated Hobart, but I still kept them off for a little longer. I just need to see more.

And to Ryan's point ... I'm not voting for Amherst and haven't for several weeks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on January 14, 2020, 05:29:17 PM
Hobart has shown to be the class of the league so far but has a tough road game at Union tonight. The 11-1, 5-0 Statesmen took a hard fought 76-74 victory over the Dutchmen 6-4, 3-2 when they last met in Schenectady. Union will have to shoot lights out to have a chance this time around.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 14, 2020, 09:21:55 PM
Union takes down Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 14, 2020, 09:23:56 PM
Nice win for Union tonight.   That's the Union I saw against SLU.   Ride or die with the 3, but when it works, it works.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 15, 2020, 06:57:10 AM
So I watched RPI beat Union, union started out awful, had a comeback, but couldn't catch up...

Hobart beat Ithaca

now Union beats Hobart?

Who is left undefeated and in 1st place???   The old alma mater, RPI!!!... Who wudda thought????

Seems they still have 2 with Hobart, 2 with Ithaca.... let's wait and see...   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 15, 2020, 08:49:34 AM
Quote from: UfanBill on January 14, 2020, 05:29:17 PM
Hobart has shown to be the class of the league so far but has a tough road game at Union tonight. The 11-1, 5-0 Statesmen took a hard fought 76-74 victory over the Dutchmen 6-4, 3-2 when they last met in Schenectady. Union will have to shoot lights out to have a chance this time around.
Congrats to the Dutchmen, very timely buckets every time Hobart charged back. Hobart has had problems with self inflicted turnovers all year, but their tenacious defense , streak shooting and game focus have kept them in the win column except for the 2 losses this year. A nice balance of experience and first years giving a nice look into potential success in the future. First year HC and ex Statesmen star Steph Thompson has them excited to play for the program and the word is recruits love Steph, so we might stain the success. So hat tip to Union for last nights win, but I am excited for Hobart basketball for this year and the future. +k to UFAN Bill for linking the LL Football board( and the recent odd discussions) to LL Bball .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on January 15, 2020, 02:04:11 PM
Great, gutsy win by the Union Dutchmen last night. After losing by 22 to Hobart in Geneva on Dec. 10th where they shot a dismal 15/55, 29.3% from the field and 3/19, 15.8% from behind the arc the Dutchmen were much better on the home floor. They battled through the Statesmen's tenacious defense and hit 13 of 32 from three, 40.6%. They also played tough D of their own forcing 17 Hobart turnovers.

A key contributor to the Union effort was a new name in the rotation. Sophomore big man 6'9" 225# Chris Loviscolo.  Loviscolo is a DI transfer from Holy Cross who just became eligible in January. Loviscolo spent a year at Holy Cross playing for Union Hall of Famer, coach Bill Carmody, after playing at Don Bosco Prep in NJ with Union Guard Mike Concannon. The addition of Loviscolo and their big win over Hobart makes the Dutchmen a definite threat in the Liberty League.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on January 15, 2020, 02:25:53 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on January 15, 2020, 02:04:11 PM
Great, gutsy win by the Union Dutchmen last night. After losing by 22 to Hobart in Geneva on Dec. 10th where they shot a dismal 15/55, 29.3% from the field and 3/19, 15.8% from behind the arc the Dutchmen were much better on the home floor. They battled through the Statesmen's tenacious defense and hit 13 of 32 from three, 40.6%. They also played tough D of their own forcing 17 Hobart turnovers.

A key contributor to the Union effort was a new name in the rotation. Sophomore big man 6'9" 225# Chris Loviscolo.  Loviscolo is a DI transfer from Holy Cross who just became eligible in January. Loviscolo spent a year at Holy Cross playing for Union Hall of Famer, coach Bill Carmody, after playing at Don Bosco Prep in NJ with Union Guard Mike Concannon. The addition of Loviscolo and their big win over Hobart makes the Dutchmen a definite threat in the Liberty League.   

Wow, a 6'9" transfer is huge (pun intended).  Did he have to sit out a season, similar to football, when dropping from D1 to D3?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2020, 02:32:12 PM
You do not have to sit out a season when moving from D-I to D-III, regardless of sport. If you were eligible at your previous school, you are eligible immediately at the D-III school.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on January 15, 2020, 02:37:50 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2020, 02:32:12 PM
You do not have to sit out a season when moving from D-I to D-III, regardless of sport. If you were eligible at your previous school, you are eligible immediately at the D-III school.

Understood...Loviscolo was on the Holy Cross roster at the beginning of this season. He played 1 minute in their opener at Maryland 11/5.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on January 15, 2020, 03:18:27 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2020, 02:32:12 PM
You do not have to sit out a season when moving from D-I to D-III, regardless of sport. If you were eligible at your previous school, you are eligible immediately at the D-III school.

That's right, its the other way.  Can't go from D3 to D1
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2020, 03:26:53 PM
Right. It's so someone can't so easily be enticed away by a scholarship offer and we don't end up with D-III being a developmental squad for D-I.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 16, 2020, 11:09:28 AM
League leading RPI at Hobart on saturday. Should be a great game as teams jockey for first place and Home Court in the LL tournament. Hobart has 8 of their remaining LL games at home, hopefully they will use the advantage down the stretch. Early results indicate a tight race with no team  clearly separating themselves quite yet ( Union and Ithaca are also strong contenders ). If RPI beats Hobart on saturday we could see some separation, so this January game is key for both teams. However, it looks like RPI, Hobart, Ithaca and Union could all gain momentum and have enough talent to win the LL tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 17, 2020, 09:23:01 PM
SLU blows another game late because no one can take care of the ball at the top of the key.  Ithaca shoots 10% from three, SLU turns it over 8 more times than Ithaca.  That's your game and the story of the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 17, 2020, 09:44:43 PM
Quote from: Bartman on January 16, 2020, 11:09:28 AM
League leading RPI at Hobart on saturday. Should be a great game as teams jockey for first place and Home Court in the LL tournament. Hobart has 8 of their remaining LL games at home, hopefully they will use the advantage down the stretch. Early results indicate a tight race with no team  clearly separating themselves quite yet ( Union and Ithaca are also strong contenders ). If RPI beats Hobart on saturday we could see some separation, so this January game is key for both teams. However, it looks like RPI, Hobart, Ithaca and Union could all gain momentum and have enough talent to win the LL tournament.

RPI comes back from a horrendous 1st half at RIT, down double digits... to win by double digits...

Bartman, I'll be surprised if Hobart doesn't win pretty easily tomorrow...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 18, 2020, 05:14:26 PM
RPI has Hobart on the ropes, up 8 with 5:30 to go, would be 12 in a row for the Engineers if they hang on.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 18, 2020, 06:01:51 PM
Wow, I apologize... RPI with the win... a very good win... curious what RPI record for wins in a row is....  I really didn't see this coming...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on January 18, 2020, 06:04:54 PM
The Union Dutchmen showed their depth this weekend in completely dominating Bard and Vassar for their fourth straight win in a week.. All 16 suited up roster players saw action with 15/16 scoring in each game. One could only say that the Dutchmen are feeding their confidence for the remainder of the LL season. They've got a tough one next.. at Ithaca on Friday..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 18, 2020, 06:05:36 PM
Props to RPI.  Lost a lot of firepower from last year.  Hobart hitting a bit of a wall with poor shooting, but their defense will keep them in games.  Union having a quietly strong season.   They looked good when I saw them last year so I'm not surprised they're 6-2.  4 teams at 2-5 battling for the 6th spot.  SLU beats Skidmore today for the first time in 4 years.  Going to be an interesting final 5 weeks. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 19, 2020, 08:22:56 AM
Congrats to RPI for remaining undefeated in the LL . Hobart v. RPI first half was pretty sloppy with defensive focus by both teams. Second half was similar to Union game for Hobart where shooters go cold and RPI surges when necessary. Hat tip to RPI for coming into Bristol Gym and leaving with first place.....Statesmen will look to return the favor in Troy and in the tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 25, 2020, 06:01:51 AM
RPI winning ugly... but winning nonetheless... scrambles to hold off Vasser rally.... stays undefeated in LL, continues winning streak...

Can they conceivably win at Ithaca today????   If so, all those hockey fans better start coming to the basketball games instead (or too)...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 25, 2020, 07:37:33 PM
sonuvagun they did it.... RPI beats Ithaca.... AT Ithaca... hats off to the tute.... keep it going!!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 25, 2020, 07:56:14 PM
RPI really doesn't have a very strong schedule, but as Parcells said, you are what your record says you are.  Barring some 2nd half disaster, RPI should be sitting pretty for Pool C if they don't win the LL tourney.  We'll know for sure when the regional rankings come out, but there still a lot of basketball to play until then.   Good defense goes a long way. 

Ithaca, Hobart and Union will be duking it out for the top 4, and there will be quite the slog for the last 2 spots between Skidmore, Vassar, SLU, Clarkson and RIT.      SLU is reeling from injuries right now, I was surprised they didn't lose by much more today against Hobart.  Jeffrey and Hicks are out of action and that is simply too much to overcome, so it was nice to get the W against RIT yesterday.  Big game Tuesday against Clarkson. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 25, 2020, 08:48:00 PM
Hobart will probably have the stronger CV for Pool C than RPI, so that might be our best shot at two LL teams dancing this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 26, 2020, 12:46:38 PM
RPI looks like the host for the LL tourney with 2 game lead. Hobart has slight schedule benefit with 6 of 8 at home and only 2 games with top 4 remaining @ RPI and Ithaca at home. I dont think the second tier of the league will upset anyone, but a bad shooting night or injuries can change that. Not a tremendous difference in the top 4 teams , but hoping that Hobart can fine tune down the stretch as underclassmen improve. Should be a well contested tournament, most likely in Troy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 28, 2020, 09:18:11 PM
SLU steals one against Clarkson.  Down 10 for most of the game, just weathered Clarkson's hot 3 point shooting the first 30 minutes and then went on their only run of the game to take the lead.   Hicks finally back into form with 22 after tweaking his leg last weekend.  Jeffrey returns for 11 pts and 9 rebounds.      Despite the plethora of injuries this year SLU somehow is clinging to the last playoff spot.  Very proud of this squad to not give up. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 29, 2020, 12:12:35 PM
Looking forward to match up with Ithaca against Hobart at Bristol this Friday. Key game for the Statesmen to stay on track to have a chance for positioning and success in the LL tournament . 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 29, 2020, 09:34:31 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=4w24l/es7kvekeakkuc1v8.jpg)

Time for a marathon!

Thursday, Hoopsville will be on the air for at least nine hours in the 7th Annual Hoopsville Marathon Show.

This year's show will feature coaches, administrators, and many others around Division III to give us a sense of the season to date and what is to come. There is only a month or so left in the regular season, so there is plenty to talk about.

For more information about the show and its impact, click here.

The show's guest list is below with a rough idea of when they were scheduled to appear during the live show.

The marathon is also a chance to fundraise of the show. Many fans of Hoopsville ask often how they can give to the program so we can continue doing our work into the future. In the first few years of the Marathon, the fundraising side was an important aspect. However in the last few years, we have shyed away from fundraising as we tried to find other means to financially run the program. After requests from many, we are do have a few ways fans can contribute.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the entire Marathon show LIVE in the video player above. We will effort to turn around podcast episodes of the entire show. They will be available to the right (after the show is off the air).

Guests appear on the Hoopsville Hotline presented by BlueFrame Technology.

And don't forget to interact with the Dave and guests. You can use the social media option to the right and even email (dave.mchugh@d3sports.com) questions to the show.


When it comes to the game of basketball, we love celebrating not only the student-athletes in Division III, but also those who help carry the game forward sometimes outside of the spotlight.

Sunday on Hoopsville, we celebrate those who have made the game of basketball, especially at DIII, so great. Coaches who continue to excel in different parts of the country and programs who play for more than just themselves.

Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Thursday's Marathon Show in the following ways:
- Main page: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville
- Show page: http://bit.ly/2GBqAuZ (or www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2019-20/marathon)
- Facebook Live Simulcast: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
- YouTube Simulcast: www.youtube.com/d3hoopsville
- Team1 Sports: www.team1sports.com/Hoopsville/
- Team1 Sports app (https://team1sports.com/) (Android TV, Amazon Fire, Apple TV, Roku) - you will either find it under the "live" section or search for the Hoopsville channel

All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.

If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to dave.mchugh@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options.

Hoopsville Marathon Schedule
Timing approximate and subject to change

























Time (ET)GuestSchool/Institution
12:20 p.m.Jim CalhounSt. Joseph's (Conn.) men's coach
12:40 p.m.Pat JuckemNo. 11 WashU men's coach
1:00 p.m.Brian MorehouseNo. 3 Hope women's coach
1:20 p.m.Lauren BusalacchiRipon women's coach
1:40 p.m.Ryan HylandJohn Jay men's coach
2:00 p.m.Dan DutcherNCAA VP for Division III
2:40 p.m.Karin HarveyMontclair State women's coach, Women's National Committee chair
3:00 p.m.Adrienne ShiblesNo. 2 Bowdoin women's coach
3:20 p.m.Kate PearsonCabrini women's coach
3:40 p.m.Matt GilbrideRPI men's coach
4:00 p.m.Sam AtkinsonGallaudet Associate AD for Comm., Men's National Committee Chair
4:20 p.m.Matt DonohueCatholic women's coach
4:40 p.m.Charles KatsiaficasPomona-Pitzer men's coach
5:00 p.m.Jon HerbrechtsmeyerNo. 5 Bethel women's coach
5:20 p.m.Chris CarideoWidener men's coach
5:40 p.m.Dave HixonAmherst men's coach (sabbatical)
6:00 p.m.Tricia CullopWBCA Board President, Toledo women's coach
6:20 p.m.Alex RicheyNo. 18 Oglethorpe women's coach
6:40 p.m.Jody MayAlbion men's coach
7:00 p.m.Dave MacedoNo. 18 Virginia Wesleyan men's coach
7:20 p.m.Melissa KuberkaSt. John Fisher women's coach
8:00 p.m.HOOPSVILLE HAPPY HOUR A gaggle of some of the shows friends - to be announced
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on January 31, 2020, 09:54:10 PM
Union overwhelmed RIT 85-68 tonight to move to 11-6 overall, 8-3 in the Liberty League. The Dutchmen shot 31/60, 56.75% and 14/31, 45.2% from behind the arc. All 17 members of the deep roster saw playing time. Tomorrow afternoon the 8-0 at home Dutchmen will host LL leader RPI. The 16-2, 11-0 Engineers beat Union 61-50 in Troy on 1/10.  It should be a battle.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 31, 2020, 10:07:55 PM
Ithaca called for a foul with less than a second left on an offensive rebound, Hobart makes both free throws to win by one

ouch
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on January 31, 2020, 10:36:34 PM
Gotta swallow the whistle there. There is no foul on that play
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 31, 2020, 10:39:09 PM
Yeah Ithaca got screwed there I think. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on January 31, 2020, 11:06:15 PM
It happens. The key is how you respond from here. Great effort without their leading scorer but can't dwell on a missed call.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 31, 2020, 11:12:38 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 31, 2020, 10:07:55 PM
Ithaca called for a foul with less than a second left on an offensive rebound, Hobart makes both free throws to win by one

ouch
Anyplace to see a video of the last play?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2020, 09:45:16 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 31, 2020, 10:07:55 PM
Ithaca called for a foul with less than a second left on an offensive rebound, Hobart makes both free throws to win by one

ouch

I've seen those calls a lot more this year - I wonder if refs have been instructed to call actual fouls on end of clock plays.  There are a lot of over the back situations (which seem to be called more often in the middle of games, as well) that probably should be called.  You don't want ticky-tack stuff, but if a foul legitimately harms one team's chances, you have to call it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 01, 2020, 10:05:41 AM
Can't find the video anywhere, but the Ithaca story said a Hobart rebound was tipped out toward the foul line, and Lescoe caught it and shot it in the same motion, and was fouled with 0.8 left.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 01, 2020, 10:24:21 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on February 01, 2020, 10:05:41 AM
Can't find the video anywhere, but the Ithaca story said a Hobart rebound was tipped out toward the foul line, and Lescoe caught it and shot it in the same motion, and was fouled with 0.8 left.

That's exactly why I hoped to see video... the recap didn't match what was written here....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 01, 2020, 02:54:09 PM
Quote from: hopefan on February 01, 2020, 10:24:21 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on February 01, 2020, 10:05:41 AM
Can't find the video anywhere, but the Ithaca story said a Hobart rebound was tipped out toward the foul line, and Lescoe caught it and shot it in the same motion, and was fouled with 0.8 left.

That's exactly why I hoped to see video... the recap didn't match what was written here....
Saw the game live and it was a great game. Tucker Lescoe caught the rebound in the middle of about 4 or 5 players grabbing for the rebound, he quickly took a shot and was fouled. It was legit with time remaining whether a second or .8 . Ithaca played a great game but they lost fair and square when Lescoe nailed his 2 foul shots. Everyone will get another shot at tournament time. Hobart dominated the boards but lost the TO stat by 10 as IC only had 4 TOs all game. A fantastic D3 game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 01, 2020, 05:51:09 PM
Just when I think SLU starts playing better they go -30 on the boards against Vassar who get more offensive rebounds than SLU's total rebounds.   Year after year this team gets completely outclassed by Vassar no matter the quality of each other's team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 01, 2020, 05:59:26 PM
Hobart gets 2 wins this weekend , but 25 turnovers against RIT as Dan Messina is out.....Hobart can dominate the boards but turnovers will kill them.  RPI stays undefeated with another strong win against Union,,,,RPI keeps 2 game lead on the field.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on February 02, 2020, 02:08:43 PM
Great Basketball...RPI again proves it's Top Dog in the Liberty League by beating a game Union squad 85-79. The Engineers shot lights out 33/56, 58.9%...8/14 from 3 while Union countered shooting 29/58, 14/28 in a game that had 12 lead changes. I think a rematch is destined in the LL tournament where it will be tough for RPI to beat a team 3 times in a season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 05, 2020, 08:20:10 AM
RPI getting points in Top 25 poll(should be in Top 25) and Hobart gets a voter as well. If RPI finishes first , and Hobart wins tournament we could get 2 teams in NCAAs, of course Ithaca and Union have the skills to disrupt this outcome. Fun to watch the last 3 weeks and tournament unfold.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2020, 11:15:09 AM
Should RPI be in the Top 25? Maybe, but which win is the one that stands out and makes it obvious?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2020, 11:21:31 AM

I had 37 teams in consideration for my Top 25 ballot this week.  RPI was definitely among them.  I think their record is comparable to a team like Pomona-Pitzer that I dropped from my ballot this week - both clearly strong teams that have done well with the schedule they have, but lacking a real signature win to vault them above others.  Continuing to run the conference slate will certainly keep them in the hunt all the way to March, though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 05, 2020, 12:23:57 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2020, 11:15:09 AM
Should RPI be in the Top 25? Maybe, but which win is the one that stands out and makes it obvious?

The Engineers have won 17 in a row, after dropping two games in a season opening tournament to #112 Rutgers-Newark and #140 at Westfield State.

The Liberty League is down this year, They have 6 teams [of 10] ranked in the 300's and 400's by Massey.  They are ranked 26 out of 43 autobid conferences - I doubt they will get two bids even with an upset of the top seed in the conference tournament.

RPI's two quality wins are at Hobart [Massey 38] and at Ithaca [Massey 66].

As noted elsewhere on these boards, their non-conference schedule isn't loaded with teams in the top 100. Their non-conference opponents have a record of 77-63, and an average Massey of 235.  RPI is centrally located and within reasonable distance of a large number of quality non-conference opponents in both the Northeast and Atlantic regions.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 05, 2020, 01:24:17 PM
RPI's NCAA SOS is currently a .498. That may continue to slide downward as they continue conference action, though there is a chance it holds steady. Their non-conf SOS is .518 (unofficially on these numbers).

I am not sure the Liberty League is guaranteed two bids on the premise that RPI is upset. RPI isn't exactly going to have any Results versus Regionally Ranked Opponents - maybe one if they are lucky in the East Region rankings.

Their criteria is going to be borderline. Last year La Roche and Centre had similar numbers and didn't make the tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 05, 2020, 01:42:41 PM

Hobart is in a better Pool C position than is RPI, but it would still be very questionable.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 05, 2020, 01:50:27 PM
This RPI alum fully understands... I shudder each year I see RPI's schedule... remembering when we played Williams, Middlebury, Rochester, Plattsburgh, Brandeis, MIT seemingly every year, as well as Colgate and Cornell, and of course the Capital District Tourney vs Union, Siena, and Albany State..And in my senior year, gasp, a trip to DC to play Georgetown!!!  These games exposed us to so much, are my memories of playing college basketball, that today's RPI teams miss with the watered down schedule drawn up for them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 07, 2020, 03:48:16 PM
Ithaca at RPI postponed... nasty weather in upstate NY... I remember those days... Glad I'm retired in Florida!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 07, 2020, 08:57:31 PM
SLU played a good first half but got stymied by Hobart's defense in the 2nd half.  Hobart shot well in the 2nd half as well.   Again, if SLU doesn't have the injuries they have they might actually compete for the whole game.   Well played by Hobart. 

The Statesmen bench needs to cool it though, their antics are going to cost them if they keep that up the rest of the season, especially if they get an at large bid and take that show on the road.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 07, 2020, 10:12:27 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 07, 2020, 08:57:31 PM
SLU played a good first half but got stymied by Hobart's defense in the 2nd half.  Hobart shot well in the 2nd half as well.   Again, if SLU doesn't have the injuries they have they might actually compete for the whole game.   Well played by Hobart. 

The Statesmen bench needs to cool it though, their antics are going to cost them if they keep that up the rest of the season, especially if they get an at large bid and take that show on the road.

you've whetted the appetite.. tell us about the antics....,
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on February 07, 2020, 10:28:31 PM
Quote from: hopefan on February 07, 2020, 03:48:16 PM
Ithaca at RPI postponed... nasty weather in upstate NY... I remember those days... Glad I'm retired in Florida!!!

The weather has cleared so they're playing Sunday after playing a tough one at Union tomorrow. The Dutchmen completely demolished Skidmore tonight 93-45. Union is very good at home where they usually shoot lights out. A trying trip for the Bombers for sure. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 07, 2020, 10:34:05 PM
Quote from: hopefan on February 07, 2020, 10:12:27 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 07, 2020, 08:57:31 PM
SLU played a good first half but got stymied by Hobart's defense in the 2nd half.  Hobart shot well in the 2nd half as well.   Again, if SLU doesn't have the injuries they have they might actually compete for the whole game.   Well played by Hobart. 

The Statesmen bench needs to cool it though, their antics are going to cost them if they keep that up the rest of the season, especially if they get an at large bid and take that show on the road.

you've whetted the appetite.. tell us about the antics....,

If you're familiar with Amherst soccer then that's what they remind me of.   Everyone likes to see an animated bench, but they get too carried away.   Over the top trash talk and showmanship, especially directed at individual players.   They got a technical when they played in Canton, and probably should have got at least 3.  Pull that against a team of similar or better quality in their own house come tournament time and that is just asking for a beat down.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 07, 2020, 11:39:18 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 07, 2020, 10:34:05 PM
Quote from: hopefan on February 07, 2020, 10:12:27 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 07, 2020, 08:57:31 PM
SLU played a good first half but got stymied by Hobart's defense in the 2nd half.  Hobart shot well in the 2nd half as well.   Again, if SLU doesn't have the injuries they have they might actually compete for the whole game.   Well played by Hobart. 

The Statesmen bench needs to cool it though, their antics are going to cost them if they keep that up the rest of the season, especially if they get an at large bid and take that show on the road.

you've whetted the appetite.. tell us about the antics....,

If you're familiar with Amherst soccer then that's what they remind me of.   Everyone likes to see an animated bench, but they get too carried away.   Over the top trash talk and showmanship, especially directed at individual players.   They got a technical when they played in Canton, and probably should have got at least 3.  Pull that against a team of similar or better quality in their own house come tournament time and that is just asking for a beat down.

I hate that stuff... wish officials would be courageous enough to call T's each occurrence until it stopped... and the coaching staff can also be faulted for not toning it down... supporting your teammates from the bench does not have to include degrading or taunting the opposition...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on February 09, 2020, 01:37:19 PM
In a hotly contested fight for 3rd place in the Liberty League the Ithaca Bombers ultimately came out on top 93-82. A quick 16 point run with the Bombers hitting everything, 9/13 from 3 in the 1st half, gave Ithaca a 49-41 midway lead but the Dutchmen fought back in the second half and actually took a seven point 68-61 lead with 9:07 left. From there though the Dutch went cold, they live and die by the 3. I'm not sure why coach Chris Murphy sat his big men...6'8' Rhona Eseyade played only 3 minutes ??? and backups Laud and Loviscolo 5 and 3 respectively. With a 2nd half lead rather than slow it down and work the ball inside the Dutchmen continued to run and gun to defeat ::). I contend fatigue was a factor for the Union guard's late poor shooting. A virtual replay of a game against RPI last week. >:( Late, great free throw shooting sealed the deal for Ithaca.

This pretty much sets the top four seeding for the LL tournament with RPI at 1, Hobart 2,Ithaca 3 and Union 4th. Ithaca tries to end the RPI 18 game winning steak today at RPI.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 09, 2020, 03:39:31 PM
Ithaca was up 18 at halftime, coughed up the lead and yet won it anyway 62-60 at RPI. Jake Mitchell the winning bucket with 28 seconds left.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 09, 2020, 08:41:49 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 09, 2020, 03:39:31 PM
Ithaca was up 18 at halftime, coughed up the lead and yet won it anyway 62-60 at RPI. Jake Mitchell the winning bucket with 28 seconds left.
Thank you Bombers, great game gives RPI their first LL loss setting up a duel in Troy between Hobart and the Engineers for a possible first place tie. IF Hobart can grab the win on the Engineer's court Friday, not sure how the tiebreaker would work, but will worry about that if earned at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ithaca798891 on February 10, 2020, 09:35:15 AM
Great win for IC, which has somewhat quietly found itself in great position for a 20-win season for just the seventh time in school history.

The Bombers close the year with four home games, and will be strong favorites in each.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on February 10, 2020, 10:27:25 AM
Two great environments at Union and RPI.  Not easy to get two road wins back to back. Kudos to Ithaca.  Talented, competitive, passionate players on all three squads.  D3 Hoops is alive and well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on February 10, 2020, 10:52:56 PM
Quote from: footballfan911 on February 10, 2020, 10:27:25 AM
Two great environments at Union and RPI.  Not easy to get two road wins back to back. Kudos to Ithaca.  Talented, competitive, passionate players on all three squads.  D3 Hoops is alive and well.

Welcome to the board 911...hope to see you posting on the Liberty league football board as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 12, 2020, 03:14:56 PM
Regional rankings released:

https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SLUFaithful on February 13, 2020, 10:37:57 AM
Quote from: stlawus on February 07, 2020, 10:34:05 PM
Quote from: hopefan on February 07, 2020, 10:12:27 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 07, 2020, 08:57:31 PM
SLU played a good first half but got stymied by Hobart's defense in the 2nd half.  Hobart shot well in the 2nd half as well.   Again, if SLU doesn't have the injuries they have they might actually compete for the whole game.   Well played by Hobart. 

The Statesmen bench needs to cool it though, their antics are going to cost them if they keep that up the rest of the season, especially if they get an at large bid and take that show on the road.

you've whetted the appetite.. tell us about the antics....,

If you're familiar with Amherst soccer then that's what they remind me of.   Everyone likes to see an animated bench, but they get too carried away.   Over the top trash talk and showmanship, especially directed at individual players.   They got a technical when they played in Canton, and probably should have got at least 3.  Pull that against a team of similar or better quality in their own house come tournament time and that is just asking for a beat down.

As a parent of a SLU player, I usually have to fight my own bias towards any and all things involving the Saints. However, after hearing that a player  told the bench and coaching staff to "suck his d___" repeatedly, I can't help but understand the reaction (even if over the top) by the Statesmen bench. At the end of the day, the best way we could have shut them up would have been a W, oops.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 13, 2020, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: SLUFaithful on February 13, 2020, 10:37:57 AM
Quote from: stlawus on February 07, 2020, 10:34:05 PM
Quote from: hopefan on February 07, 2020, 10:12:27 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 07, 2020, 08:57:31 PM
SLU played a good first half but got stymied by Hobart's defense in the 2nd half.  Hobart shot well in the 2nd half as well.   Again, if SLU doesn't have the injuries they have they might actually compete for the whole game.   Well played by Hobart. 

The Statesmen bench needs to cool it though, their antics are going to cost them if they keep that up the rest of the season, especially if they get an at large bid and take that show on the road.

you've whetted the appetite.. tell us about the antics....,

If you're familiar with Amherst soccer then that's what they remind me of.   Everyone likes to see an animated bench, but they get too carried away.   Over the top trash talk and showmanship, especially directed at individual players.   They got a technical when they played in Canton, and probably should have got at least 3.  Pull that against a team of similar or better quality in their own house come tournament time and that is just asking for a beat down.

As a parent of a SLU player, I usually have to fight my own bias towards any and all things involving the Saints. However, after hearing that a player  told the bench and coaching staff to "suck his d___" repeatedly, I can't help but understand the reaction (even if over the top) by the Statesmen bench. At the end of the day, the best way we could have shut them up would have been a W, oops.

Yikes, in that case ignore what I said.  I have a feeling I know who did that.  But yea a W would have assuaged and negative feeling, but Hobart is a very well rounded and experienced team. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 13, 2020, 04:58:23 PM
Quote from: SLUFaithful on February 13, 2020, 10:37:57 AM
Quote from: stlawus on February 07, 2020, 10:34:05 PM
Quote from: hopefan on February 07, 2020, 10:12:27 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 07, 2020, 08:57:31 PM
SLU played a good first half but got stymied by Hobart's defense in the 2nd half.  Hobart shot well in the 2nd half as well.   Again, if SLU doesn't have the injuries they have they might actually compete for the whole game.   Well played by Hobart. 

The Statesmen bench needs to cool it though, their antics are going to cost them if they keep that up the rest of the season, especially if they get an at large bid and take that show on the road.

you've whetted the appetite.. tell us about the antics....,

If you're familiar with Amherst soccer then that's what they remind me of.   Everyone likes to see an animated bench, but they get too carried away.   Over the top trash talk and showmanship, especially directed at individual players.   They got a technical when they played in Canton, and probably should have got at least 3.  Pull that against a team of similar or better quality in their own house come tournament time and that is just asking for a beat down.

As a parent of a SLU player, I usually have to fight my own bias towards any and all things involving the Saints. However, after hearing that a player  told the bench and coaching staff to "suck his d___" repeatedly, I can't help but understand the reaction (even if over the top) by the Statesmen bench. At the end of the day, the best way we could have shut them up would have been a W, oops.
I did not attend this game and hope this type of behavior does not repeat itself, on either side.  Hobart's new coach has a pretty good reputation, and I was surprised to hear of the incident, as the basketball program hasn't had much drama in the past.  Now the the old lacrosse teams from the 70's and 80's that threw Lake Trout at opponents, that was totally indefensible, but the trout was pretty good eating afterwards. +k for accuracy in reporting to the SLU parent.

Now back to basketball. RPI(#2 in RR) and Hobart(#3 in RR) lining up tomorrow night in Troy for a key game pre tournament. GoBart   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 14, 2020, 09:26:28 PM
Vassar with the upset against Union.   Vassar is a lot better than their record but they match up well with Union as they slow the tempo and are very bulky in the paint.

SLU sweeps Skidmore for the first time since 2012-2013 to stay in playoff contention, at least for 12 hours.   Quite the battle for the final playoff spot these last 3 games. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 15, 2020, 12:06:59 PM
Congratulations on the RPI win over Hobart last night and essentially securing the #1 seed thru the LL tournament. Hobart played well until the last 5 minutes .I noticed some limping by some of the Hobart players as they toughed out a very physical game against the Engineers. The tournament should be hard fought with the next group of LL teams hoping for a run. RPI has shown they can finish games , but they have had issues getting started.  The Engineers are the clear favorite for an NCAA berth with Hobart and Ithaca with high hopes as well. Never count out Union despite last night's loss. Should be fun.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on February 16, 2020, 11:23:49 AM
Hey Caz...................ten 3 pointers in one game??? Doesn't the other team scout at all? ;)

Outside shot at Liberty League Player of the Year?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 19, 2020, 01:17:12 PM
Week 2's Regional Rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 19, 2020, 05:25:59 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 19, 2020, 01:17:12 PM
Week 2's Regional Rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-second
So, RPI #2 and Hobart#3 behind Brockport. If both Hobart and RPI stay undefeated until the LL championship, what are the odds the LL gets 2 teams in the dance? Based on history it seems unlikely, but just hoping.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 19, 2020, 06:21:16 PM
RPI currently is 3-1 vs. Regionally Ranked Opponents, while Hobart is 3-3.  Both have pretty easy last weekend schedules before the LL tournament.

If Hobart were to make it to the finals of the Liberty League, I suspect they are in the tournament barring a huge rash of upsets in conference tournaments. They have a very strong non-conference schedule and a rare win over U of Rochester this year.

RPI looks like they are in as long as they make it to the conference finals. 

I could see Hobart being viewed by the NCAA as a logical team to be in a pod hosted at Brockport, and RPI might even get to host a pod if it wins the LL title, as there are a ton of New England teams close by. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 19, 2020, 11:58:24 PM
Remember, teams won't be selected because they make a better pod situation... the selections will take place then they will deal with bracketing.

But the East is a bit weak right now when you look at things from the national perspective. These resumes may look good to rise to 2 and 3 in the region, but nationally they don't hold up as well. There will be upsets and Pool C bids will get gobbled up by locked teams. That means less wiggle room. I'm not that confident LL can get two teams in the tourney with those resumes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 20, 2020, 07:45:34 AM
I see that Titan Q has Hobart in as the #9 at large team, assuming they hold form and get to the finals of the LL tournament, I would think they are a pretty solid pick.  They beat Rochester head to head and he has Rochester at #17 which is probably bubble out. A lot can happen with conference tournament upsets etc.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 20, 2020, 09:53:48 AM
RPI generally never schedules anybody with a pulse, but you have to wonder if shoo-in Coach of the Year Mark Gilbride will end up kicking himself for not doing so.

Probably not though, if/when RPI falls to Hobart in the LL finals and doesn't get selected at 23-4, he'll just rant and vent online about how unfair it all is and how his program was screwed. Coaches are all the same.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 20, 2020, 10:24:00 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 20, 2020, 09:53:48 AM
RPI generally never schedules anybody with a pulse, but you have to wonder if shoo-in Coach of the Year Mark Gilbride will end up kicking himself for not doing so.

Probably not though, if/when RPI falls to Hobart in the LL finals and doesn't get selected at 23-4, he'll just rant and vent online about how unfair it all is and how his program was screwed. Coaches are all the same.
The LL tournament has not been kind to the teams with the best records, so as a Hobart fan I am not counting the chickens. Ithaca is certainly capable of winning(especially if Riley and friends are on) and Union seems to respond at tournament time. This weekend is a tune up for what should be a pretty good tournament. I think RPI could easily lose at home in the first game to Union, the same way Hobart did two years ago to Skidmore. That Hobart team was one of the best teams ever at 16-2 in conference and 21-5 overall, but lost to Union in a meaningless game at the end of the season by 3 and lost to Skidmore by 3 in the first tournament game on their home court, when the starting 5 shot less than 30% for the night. That team paid for the season ending by not making the tournament. You might be right that RPI could suffer a similar fate, especially to their motivated rival.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 22, 2020, 06:17:18 PM
SLU made the playoffs.

Tournament Seeds:
1. RPI (17-1)
2. Hobart (15-3, swept Ithaca)
3. Ithaca (15-3)
4. Union (12-6)
5. Vassar (7-11)
6. St. Lawrence (6-12) **

** Tiebreaker for 6th seed:
6t. St. Lawrence, 4-2 vs. RIT (1-1), SKD (2-0), CLK (1-1)
6t. RIT, 3-3 vs. SKD (1-1), SLU (1-1), CLK (1-1)
6t. Clarkson, 3-3 vs. RIT (1-1), SKD (1-1), SLU (1-1)
6t. Skidmore, 2-4 vs. RIT (1-1), SLU (0-2), CLK (1-1)

Pairings
Tuesday
St. Lawrence at Ithaca
Vassar at Union

Saturday
St. Lawrence-Ithaca winner vs. Hobart at RPI
Vassar-Union winner at RPI
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 22, 2020, 06:25:12 PM
Wait, SLU made the LL tourney?   I feel like the LL tie breaker criteria changes every year or I simply do not how it works.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 22, 2020, 06:27:19 PM
Guess your season isn't over!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 22, 2020, 06:31:29 PM
Tucker Lescoe hits 12 of 19  beyond the arc on Senior Night at Bristol Gym against Skidmore. What a way to end your home court career. The Statesmen are ready for the LL tournament, let's earn it!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 22, 2020, 06:42:10 PM
I will not be sorry to see Lescoe go after this year.   One of the smoothest strokes I've seen from a LL player in recent years.   I thought we were finally rid of a Statesmen sniper when Drescher graduated, little did I know. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2020, 10:57:02 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 22, 2020, 06:25:12 PM
Wait, SLU made the LL tourney?   I feel like the LL tie breaker criteria changes every year or I simply do not how it works.

This seems pretty straightforward as d3d3d3 broke it down. Four teams tied, so you start by figuring out who had the best record against the other three. No need to go further as that breaks the tie.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 23, 2020, 08:30:37 AM
Quote from: stlawus on February 22, 2020, 06:42:10 PM
I will not be sorry to see Lescoe go after this year.   One of the smoothest strokes I've seen from a LL player in recent years.   I thought we were finally rid of a Statesmen sniper when Drescher graduated, little did I know.
I don't blame you, when Tucker feels it there is no place on the court that he won't chuck one up, like last night when quite a few were 10 feet beyond the arc with the same smooth stroke followed by a mighty swish...Hobart's all time mega distance chucker........good luck to the Saints in the tournament...you just need a three game win streak to the NCAAs...you never know
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on February 23, 2020, 06:40:57 PM
Love watching Lescoe and Thompson from Ithaca in warmups and then during the game. They both have seemingly unlimited range. Fun to watch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on February 23, 2020, 07:34:12 PM
Quote from: footballfan911 on February 23, 2020, 06:40:57 PM
Love watching Lescoe and Thompson from Ithaca in warmups and then during the game. They both have seemingly unlimited range. Fun to watch.

Thompson has a green light starting around 30 feet...................like Curry, Lillard and Trae Young. I'm guessing First Team All Liberty with an outside shot at Player of the Year. Nobody on the planet would have called that when he stepped on to campus a few years ago.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2020, 10:07:20 PM
RPI cracks the poll at #24 directly behind Brockport. 1 vote for Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 25, 2020, 08:20:22 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 24, 2020, 10:07:20 PM
RPI cracks the poll at #24 directly behind Brockport. 1 vote for Hobart.
Congrats to RPI......expecting wins by Ithaca and Union tonight setting up a very competitive tournament this weekend
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: D3RetiredHooper on February 25, 2020, 09:19:07 AM
Hobart should be rooting hard for Ithaca tonight! 

If Hobart does happen to lose in the LL finals to RPI but beats Ithaca for a 3rd time on the way there, Ithaca being regionally ranked greatly enhances Hobart's resume.  Hobart's resume looks a lot better 4-4 Results v RRO's as opposed to 1-4 Results v RRO's (depending if Ithaca ends up being regionally ranked in the final rankings of the East).

They will probably need that added boost to help their low SOS when it comes to having a Pool C opportunity (.508 according to Matt Snyder's page prior to conference tourney play this week).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ithaca798891 on February 25, 2020, 09:27:44 AM
Quote from: D3RetiredHooper on February 25, 2020, 09:19:07 AM
Hobart should be rooting hard for Ithaca tonight! 

If Hobart does happen to lose in the LL finals to RPI but beats Ithaca for a 3rd time on the way there, Ithaca being regionally ranked greatly enhances Hobart's resume.  Hobart's resume looks a lot better 4-4 Results v RRO's as opposed to 1-4 Results v RRO's (depending if Ithaca ends up being regionally ranked in the final rankings of the East).

They will probably need that added boost to help their low SOS when it comes to having a Pool C opportunity (.508 according to Matt Snyder's page prior to conference tourney play this week).

I don't know if Ithaca stays regionally ranked if they lose again to Hobart. They were 8th in the last go round, and playing Vassar (11-14, probably 11-15), Bard (0-24), and St. Lawrence (8-17 if they lose to IC) will drag down their SOS.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 25, 2020, 01:34:09 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on February 25, 2020, 09:27:44 AM
Quote from: D3RetiredHooper on February 25, 2020, 09:19:07 AM
Hobart should be rooting hard for Ithaca tonight! 

If Hobart does happen to lose in the LL finals to RPI but beats Ithaca for a 3rd time on the way there, Ithaca being regionally ranked greatly enhances Hobart's resume.  Hobart's resume looks a lot better 4-4 Results v RRO's as opposed to 1-4 Results v RRO's (depending if Ithaca ends up being regionally ranked in the final rankings of the East).

They will probably need that added boost to help their low SOS when it comes to having a Pool C opportunity (.508 according to Matt Snyder's page prior to conference tourney play this week).

I don't know if Ithaca stays regionally ranked if they lose again to Hobart. They were 8th in the last go round, and playing Vassar (11-14, probably 11-15), Bard (0-24), and St. Lawrence (8-17 if they lose to IC) will drag down their SOS.
Agree, I think Hobart and Ithaca need to win the tournament to get in. I'm thinking the LL has one ticket in, although Hobart and Ithaca are worthy of a slot based on talent, just not based on the RRO,SOS,bla bla bla stuff. Makes the tournament even more meaningful. Let's face it, the LL is a fun league and the top four teams are solid, but getting to a final four is really not in the cards. Winning the LL would be awesome enough for me.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2020, 02:41:17 PM
The Week 3 men's regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-third
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on February 25, 2020, 03:43:10 PM
Union opens the LL playoffs tonight versus Vassar at home. This is significant because the Dutchmen have been a much better home team(9-2) than road team(6-7) this season. The Brewers shocked Union in Poughkeepsie 60-55 on Valentine's Day after Union had completely dominated them earlier 99-73 in Schenectady. The difference?...Simple...shooting. The Dutchmen shoot much better at home. Look for Union to hit their 3's tonight and move on to face RPI Saturday.

Now it gets interesting. In recent weeks the top seeded Engineers have struggled to prevail over LL foes, squeaking by Vassar, Union, Hobart...even Clarkson, RIT and St. Lawrence gave them all they can handle AND Ithaca ended their impressive 18 game winning streak. Did they peak too early? One things for sure their first round game against either Vassar or Union will be a dog fight. It's hard to beat anybody three times in a season.

On the other side of the bracket Ithaca should have no trouble with St. Lawrence setting up the 2 vs 3 battle with Hobart, in Troy.  The Bombers dropped both games to the Statesmen regular season BUT they will come into this neutral sight game on a 9 game winning streak.  Should be very hard fought.

This should be another great Liberty League Tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 25, 2020, 05:25:00 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on February 25, 2020, 03:43:10 PM
Union opens the LL playoffs tonight versus Vassar at home. This is significant because the Dutchmen have been a much better home team(9-2) than road team(6-7) this season. The Bears shocked Union in Poughkeepsie 60-55 on Valentine's Day after Union had completely dominated them earlier 99-73 in Schenectady. The difference?...Simple...shooting. The Dutchmen shoot much better at home. Look for Union to hit their 3's tonight and move on to face RPI Saturday.

Now it gets interesting. In recent weeks the top seeded Engineers have struggled to prevail over LL foes, squeaking by Vassar, Union, Hobart...even Clarkson, RIT and St. Lawrence gave them all they can handle AND Ithaca ended their impressive 18 game winning streak. Did they peak too early? One things for sure their first round game against either Vassar or Union will be a dog fight. It's hard to beat anybody three times in a season.

On the other side of the bracket Ithaca should have no trouble with St. Lawrence setting up the 2 vs 3 battle with Hobart, in Troy.  The Bombers dropped both games to the Statesmen regular season BUT they will come into this neutral sight game on a 9 game winning streak.  Should be very hard fought.

This should be another great Liberty League Tournament.
Ufan, good luck to the Dutchmen. I hope you don't bring that ANNOYING cannon inside the gym for every basket ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 25, 2020, 08:36:22 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on February 25, 2020, 03:43:10 PM
Union opens the LL playoffs tonight versus Vassar at home. This is significant because the Dutchmen have been a much better home team(9-2) than road team(6-7) this season. The Brewers shocked Union in Poughkeepsie 60-55 on Valentine's Day after Union had completely dominated them earlier 99-73 in Schenectady. The difference?...Simple...shooting. The Dutchmen shoot much better at home. Look for Union to hit their 3's tonight and move on to face RPI Saturday.

Now it gets interesting. In recent weeks the top seeded Engineers have struggled to prevail over LL foes, squeaking by Vassar, Union, Hobart...even Clarkson, RIT and St. Lawrence gave them all they can handle AND Ithaca ended their impressive 18 game winning streak. Did they peak too early? One things for sure their first round game against either Vassar or Union will be a dog fight. It's hard to beat anybody three times in a season.

On the other side of the bracket Ithaca should have no trouble with St. Lawrence setting up the 2 vs 3 battle with Hobart, in Troy.  The Bombers dropped both games to the Statesmen regular season BUT they will come into this neutral sight game on a 9 game winning streak.  Should be very hard fought.

This should be another great Liberty League Tournament.

SLU gave Ithaca a lot of trouble tonight.  Went down 12 and then tied it.  A couple shots thrown up toward the end of the shot clock by Ithaca went down which gave Ithaca a 4 point lead which SLU wasn't able to overcome.   Very proud of this SLU squad to hold Thompson to 1-7 shooting and not give up on the road against a tough opponent.  A young and banged up squad (existing injuries and leading scorer playing injured tonight) giving Ithaca a scare at home is not the worst way to end your season.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on February 25, 2020, 08:57:54 PM
Well the Liberty League's Final Four is set and it's the four best teams for sure. Union withstood some poor 1st half shooting to gradually put Vassar away late, 72-62. After going only 2/12 from behind the arc in the 1st half they hit 4/8 in the 2nd. They also made 11/13 free throws to hold off the Brewers. Mike Concannon was stellar with a career high 26 points to lead the Dutchmen.

Get the cannon ready for Saturday.  ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 26, 2020, 10:01:11 AM
Congrats to Ithaca and Union for making the LL tournament semi's....one of the better fields in a long time. Hobart v. Ithaca will be Hobart's tough defense and deliberate offense(a few well screened Lescoe 3 balls as necessary) against a very active Ithaca offense(Riley Thompson leading) . Rebounds, turnovers and shooting accuracy will determine the outcome with Hobart having the advantage in rebounds , but if they have TO bug, it will be Ithaca advantage unless Lescoe bails them out...should be a great game. Any RPI-Union game is a natural grudge match.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ithaca798891 on February 26, 2020, 11:27:10 AM
Survive and advance. The Bombers are in win or go home mood, so there's no points for style. IC got the W, and that's all that matters to me. A 21-5 season thus far, just fantastic, NCAAs or not
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2020, 11:29:31 AM

Ithaca looks very strong.  They're playing probably better than everyone else right now.  I'd love to see them win just for the drama it will cause in selections.  RPI and Hobart both have resumes to be considered, if not get in.  Three LL teams would make things interesting, for sure.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on February 26, 2020, 12:42:39 PM
SLU always seems to make it tough for the Bombers with their zone d and deliberate offense. (last game at Ithaca was an anomaly IMO). Almost like a box and 1 at times up top last night. The future looks very bright for SLU with the young talent they have. 

Looking forward to seeing both semifinal games this weekend. These 4 teams are talented and well coached and even if only 1 team gets in, that does not take away from all that they have accomplished this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 26, 2020, 05:44:37 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on February 26, 2020, 11:27:10 AM
Survive and advance. The Bombers are in win or go home mood, so there's no points for style. IC got the W, and that's all that matters to me. A 21-5 season thus far, just fantastic, NCAAs or not
Beating the Bombers for a third time will be tough.....I think whichever team wins, beats RPI or Union, IMO.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: D3HoopsStan on February 26, 2020, 06:23:49 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2020, 11:29:31 AM

Ithaca looks very strong.  They're playing probably better than everyone else right now.  I'd love to see them win just for the drama it will cause in selections.  RPI and Hobart both have resumes to be considered, if not get in.  Three LL teams would make things interesting, for sure.

Any chance Ithaca gets an at-large if they beat Hobart, but lose in the finals? That would leave them at 22-6 (on a fairly weak strength of schedule though).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 26, 2020, 07:39:24 PM
Bombers are ranked 8th right now in the East region,

They have one win and five losses against Regionally Ranked Opponents.

If they win Friday and lose Saturday, they will be 2-6 against RRO. 
They could move ahead of the semi losers in the SUNYAC.

At least one of Potsdam, Oneonta, Oswego that are regionally ranked ahead of them will also advance to the SUNYAC conference final. 

The only SUNYAC team that's a for sure bid is Brockport ranked #1 in the region.
 
If one of the three other SUNYAC teams above upsets Brockport, then SUNYAC will absorb a Pool C.  Potsdam has beaten Brockport [by 16 in Potsdam], and led in the last 30 seconds at Brockport, losing by 3.  Oswego took them to overtime last weekend before losing in Oswego. But at Brockport, beating the Eagles is a tall order.

There are four East conferences with autobids - SUNYAC, Liberty League, Empire 8, and NEAC - which may be a Pennsylvania School.

Everything I've seen says that as long as RPI makes it to the Liberty League final, they will probably get a Pool C.

U of R is ranked 4th in the region with a game against Emory left in Rochester.  If Rochester wins that they are probably in via Pool C due to a very strong schedule and being UAA. 

I humbly submit that,  like the non-Brockport SUNYAC schools, the Bombers have to win their conference tournament to get a bid to the NCAA's.
   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2020, 08:56:34 PM
Quote from: D3HoopsStan on February 26, 2020, 06:23:49 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2020, 11:29:31 AM

Ithaca looks very strong.  They're playing probably better than everyone else right now.  I'd love to see them win just for the drama it will cause in selections.  RPI and Hobart both have resumes to be considered, if not get in.  Three LL teams would make things interesting, for sure.

Any chance Ithaca gets an at-large if they beat Hobart, but lose in the finals? That would leave them at 22-6 (on a fairly weak strength of schedule though).

No.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: D3HoopsStan on February 26, 2020, 09:44:55 PM
Quote from: thebear on February 26, 2020, 07:39:24 PM
Bombers are ranked 8th right now in the East region,

They have one win and five losses against Regionally Ranked Opponents.

If they win Friday and lose Saturday, they will be 2-6 against RRO. 
They could move ahead of the semi losers in the SUNYAC.

At least one of Potsdam, Oneonta, Oswego that are regionally ranked ahead of them will also advance to the SUNYAC conference final. 

The only SUNYAC team that's a for sure bid is Brockport ranked #1 in the region.
 
If one of the three other SUNYAC teams above upsets Brockport, then SUNYAC will absorb a Pool C.  Potsdam has beaten Brockport [by 16 in Potsdam], and led in the last 30 seconds at Brockport, losing by 3.  Oswego took them to overtime last weekend before losing in Oswego. But at Brockport, beating the Eagles is a tall order.

There are four East conferences with autobids - SUNYAC, Liberty League, Empire 8, and NEAC - which may be a Pennsylvania School.

Everything I've seen says that as long as RPI makes it to the Liberty League final, they will probably get a Pool C.

U of R is ranked 4th in the region with a game against Emory left in Rochester.  If Rochester wins that they are probably in via Pool C due to a very strong schedule and being UAA. 

I humbly submit that,  like the non-Brockport SUNYAC schools, the Bombers have to win their conference tournament to get a bid to the NCAA's.
   

Makes sense. Thanks!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on February 26, 2020, 09:59:55 PM
Solid analysis and I'm sure you are spot on. As I have said, all of these teams have talented players and are well coached. These kids are true student athletes. If only one team makes it to the tournament, so be it. Nothing to be ashamed of.  Shout out to all the seniors and their families on great careers. Looking forward to a great weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 27, 2020, 09:13:50 AM
Quote from: footballfan911 on February 26, 2020, 09:59:55 PM
Solid analysis and I'm sure you are spot on. As I have said, all of these teams have talented players and are well coached. These kids are true student athletes. If only one team makes it to the tournament, so be it. Nothing to be ashamed of.  Shout out to all the seniors and their families on great careers. Looking forward to a great weekend.
+k, ditto that
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 29, 2020, 03:46:46 PM
RPI handles Union by 20; Bombs and Barts coming up next in a little bit
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 29, 2020, 06:21:41 PM
Ithaca holds off Hobart second-half charge and gets to the title game, 80-72. Sinon scores 36 for Bombers; Lescoe 2-for-17 from the field, five points for Statesmen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on March 01, 2020, 12:15:25 PM
Congrats to RPI for putting it to the Dutchmen in the 2nd half. Union just keeps losing close games in the same manner. When things get tough they try to out gun their opponents rather than defend them. Live by the three, die by the three.

RPI killed them underneath getting 44 points in the paint fueled by 16 offensive rebounds. I don't know what the plus/minus for long armed, quick jumping 6'8" shot blocker Rhona Eseyade was, but I'd bet that Union scored more than they gave up while he was in there. He definitely shows his presence. Sadly that's not the direction Union takes. Eseyade played only 14 minutes.  ???

The Dutchmen return almost everyone next year, Maybe they can figure out how to finish. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 01, 2020, 04:09:18 PM
Nice win by Ithaca to take down RPI 80-69 in overtime.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 01, 2020, 04:22:12 PM
Quote from: Bartman on February 26, 2020, 05:44:37 PM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on February 26, 2020, 11:27:10 AM
Survive and advance. The Bombers are in win or go home mood, so there's no points for style. IC got the W, and that's all that matters to me. A 21-5 season thus far, just fantastic, NCAAs or not
Beating the Bombers for a third time will be tough.....I think whichever team wins, beats RPI or Union, IMO.
Congrats to the Bombers on a well deserved OT win and the LL Championship. Unfortunately, I was right about beating IC for a third time....going 2-1 against the champs doesn't get the Statesmen much unless there is an outside chance of getting 3 LL teams in the tourney....obviously RPI has earned it despite losing today, but thinking the Statesmen just missed way too many shots on Saturday, but you can always hope. Good luck to the Bombers in the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2020, 04:25:54 PM
Sebastian Alderete 28-11-4 in the title game, that's kinda good.

Hooray we win hooray...now we wait to see where IC goes and if Hobart and/or RPI join them.

and the IC women won the LL over Vassar on a Grace Cannon bucket with 6 seconds left; truly everything has come up Milhouse on this day
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on March 02, 2020, 01:02:08 AM
Alderete was huge all game and Thompson slammed the door shut in OT. Two seniors who have had fantastic careers on south hill. Great way to go out with a league championship.Would be nice to see 3 Liberty League teams playing next weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ithaca798891 on March 02, 2020, 08:50:05 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2020, 04:25:54 PM
Sebastian Alderete 28-11-4 in the title game, that's kinda good.

Hooray we win hooray...now we wait to see where IC goes and if Hobart and/or RPI join them.

and the IC women won the LL over Vassar on a Grace Cannon bucket with 6 seconds left; truly everything has come up Milhouse on this day

The Cannon basket actually came with .3 seconds to go. Livestats had it wrong, but there's video on IC's athletics Twitter feed. Just a fantastic weekend for IC hoops
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 02, 2020, 09:11:09 AM
Quote from: Ithaca798891 on March 02, 2020, 08:50:05 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on March 01, 2020, 04:25:54 PM
Sebastian Alderete 28-11-4 in the title game, that's kinda good.

Hooray we win hooray...now we wait to see where IC goes and if Hobart and/or RPI join them.

and the IC women won the LL over Vassar on a Grace Cannon bucket with 6 seconds left; truly everything has come up Milhouse on this day

The Cannon basket actually came with .3 seconds to go. Livestats had it wrong, but there's video on IC's athletics Twitter feed. Just a fantastic weekend for IC hoops

true, saw that last night and just didn't edit my post...heck of a weekend. Plus the two track titles and the wrestling and women's lax beat the Scarlet Lizards on the road.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 02, 2020, 11:46:53 AM
The D3hoops gurus have Hobart getting in as the last Pool C. I'm not holding my breath, but it would be pretty cool to get 3 LL Teams in the tournament. We'll find out shortly.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 02, 2020, 01:12:54 PM
Hobart got in.   Very tough draw with St. Joe's but I'm as surprised as anyone to see them get in.  In a year where we all thought the LL was down we still managed to get 3 teams in.  Good luck to all.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on March 02, 2020, 01:25:41 PM
Wow, three LL make the dance!  I like Hobart's draw better than RPI's
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 02, 2020, 01:52:09 PM
Quote from: stlawus on March 02, 2020, 01:12:54 PM
Hobart got in.   Very tough draw with St. Joe's but I'm as surprised as anyone to see them get in.  In a year where we all thought the LL was down we still managed to get 3 teams in.  Good luck to all.
I think Hobart had a good resume and having beaten IC ,the LL Champ , twice probably helped, but it was by the skin of their teeth, no doubt. Hobart first year coach Steph Thompson against Hall of Famer Jim Calhoun at the birthplace of basketball in Springfield, Mass.. Our seniors get a second chance because the taste of the loss to the Bombers was not good, especially going 2-19 past the arc .....hopefully our shots will fall on Friday and we can beat  Calhoun and company.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on March 02, 2020, 07:33:27 PM
WOW... The Liberty League with 3 teams in the dance. What do you have to say now "d-mac" ?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2020, 07:37:58 PM
He probably says something similar to what he said last night on the mock selection show, when we decided to put Hobart in the field, making it three LL teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on March 03, 2020, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2020, 07:37:58 PM
He probably says something similar to what he said last night on the mock selection show, when we decided to put Hobart in the field, making it three LL teams.

Pat.................after that comeback, we will hear the sound of crickets chirping from UFanBill (who obviously didn't watch the show the night before) ;)
Title: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 03, 2020, 12:29:49 PM
Now that the LL has three teams in the dance, and the ire of the other bubble teams, it will be interesting to see how the LL teams do . Ithaca is pretty hot and if they show the defense they showed in the LL tournament and get production out of their scorers, they could surprise the field . RPI is very steady and will win with defense and team scoring. Hobart needs to show St. Joseph our best defense and a hot Tucker Lescoe....  if Tuck is hot and we can set effective screens we can beat St Joe's...or rely on Messina drives(watch the TOs) and Meshanic and Fleurizard on the inside .....a tough draw if you believe the national polls, but since we were probably the last team off the board, beggars can't be choosers. Good luck to all. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 03, 2020, 12:51:55 PM
Remember there are 23 AQ's with Massey ranks lower than Hobart, so while likely the last pool C team, but not the lowest ranked team in the tournament.

What is interesting is that Hobart's coach is 29 years old, and Calhoun is 77, literally old enough to be his grandfather.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 03, 2020, 01:22:55 PM
Quote from: thebear on March 03, 2020, 12:51:55 PM
Remember there are 23 AQ's with Massey ranks lower than Hobart, so while likely the last pool C team, but not the lowest ranked team in the tournament.

What is interesting is that Hobart's coach is 29 years old, and Calhoun is 77, literally old enough to be his grandfather.
Players gotta play, but certainly a good experience for Hobart's young coach, Stefan Thompson .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on March 03, 2020, 03:20:29 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on March 03, 2020, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2020, 07:37:58 PM
He probably says something similar to what he said last night on the mock selection show, when we decided to put Hobart in the field, making it three LL teams.

Pat.................after that comeback, we will hear the sound of crickets chirping from UFanBill (who obviously didn't watch the show the night before) ;)

"Crickets"?...Hardly, that's not the way I roll. True, I did not watch the mock selection show...probably would have if Union had a path to the tourney. A week ago d'mac scoffed at the notion that anyone other than the LL champ would make the tourney, so he's the one that ate crow. I'm happy that he listened and reassessed his position  ...late.

I'm a staunch defender of D3 sports...NYS teams in general and the Liberty League in particular. Others (and I admit d'mac is much more of a basketball expert than me) have a bias against NYS teams and athletes in general. I thought this Liberty League board would be the place to express my opinion. "We" will continue to hear chirping from me alright. I thought that was what this is all about ???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 03:42:32 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on March 03, 2020, 03:20:29 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on March 03, 2020, 09:42:50 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2020, 07:37:58 PM
He probably says something similar to what he said last night on the mock selection show, when we decided to put Hobart in the field, making it three LL teams.

Pat.................after that comeback, we will hear the sound of crickets chirping from UFanBill (who obviously didn't watch the show the night before) ;)

"Crickets"?...Hardly, that's not the way I roll. True, I did not watch the mock selection show...probably would have if Union had a path to the tourney. A week ago d'mac scoffed at the notion that anyone other than the LL champ would make the tourney, so he's the one that ate crow. I'm happy that he listened and reassessed his position  ...late.

I'm a staunch defender of D3 sports...NYS teams in general and the Liberty League in particular. Others (and I admit d'mac is much more of a basketball expert than me) have a bias against NYS teams and athletes in general. I thought this Liberty League board would be the place to express my opinion. "We" will continue to hear chirping from me alright. I thought that was what this is all about ???

Ha ... you think I have a bias ... keep trying.

A few weeks ago I didn't think the resumes in the Liberty League would stand up nationally. I was also still trying to get a read on how the committee(s) was evaluating criteria. There was a subtle shift this year (which may have started last year) where some of the other main criteria were standing stronger against numbers like SOS than they had in the past. As we moved closer to this past weekend, the Liberty started to look stronger thanks in part to the Week 3 Regional Rankings and what we saw in other regions in terms of numbers. Gaudy resumes (SOS wise) with not so hot WL% where being tamped down a bit and those with stronger cases in other categories were being held higher than we have seen in the past.

I didn't "listen" to you or anyone else around here. Your opinion certainly isn't going to change my thinking or outlook. That happens when I start to see more from the committees in regional rankings and in the MANY conversations with MANY people on committees and elsewhere which revealed a slightly different way things were being looked at.

I'll add, I don't think there were a lot in the East Region that were confident a third Liberty League team could come out - at least based on my conversations. We picked Hobart dead last and I suspect the national committee did as well (though, that can't be confirmed). Hobart's resume was ... iffy.

Oh by the way, a LOT of things can change "late" due to so many different data points changing. So my opinion changed from a few weeks ago until Sunday ... yep. It happens. I don't hide from that. (For the record, I also have tended to go to bat for resumes that include lesser SOS numbers and strong WL% because I'm not a fan of teams being rewarded for playing incredibly tough schedules, but unable to win more than about 2/3s of their games).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on March 03, 2020, 04:36:33 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on February 16, 2020, 11:23:49 AM
Hey Caz...................ten 3 pointers in one game??? Doesn't the other team scout at all? ;)

Outside shot at Liberty League Player of the Year?

Congrats to all of the All League selections, especially the seniors.  Could have seen Alderete or Thompson winning POY in addition to Mahoney.  All 3 had great seasons.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on March 03, 2020, 07:33:16 PM
Quote from: footballfan911 on March 03, 2020, 04:36:33 PM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on February 16, 2020, 11:23:49 AM
Hey Caz...................ten 3 pointers in one game??? Doesn't the other team scout at all? ;)

Outside shot at Liberty League Player of the Year?

Congrats to all of the All League selections, especially the seniors.  Could have seen Alderete or Thompson winning POY in addition to Mahoney.  All 3 had great seasons.

I would have gone (1) Thompson; (1a) Alderete and (2) Mahoney for POY.

Ithaca will certainly miss both of them, but the cupboard is far from empty. They should be solid next season, especially with the big guy back and healthy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on March 03, 2020, 08:38:52 PM
Co players of the year for Thompson and Alderete would not have surprised me. All 3 are very solid players and had great seasons. The one stat that was surprising to me was how many foul shots Thompson took on the season. Twice as many attempts as Alderete and at an 85% clip(not bad for a 5'11" guard). Alderete had a better % from the field and rebounded at a better clip than Mahoney. Mahoney led a 17-1 first place team. Tough call. I'm sure it was close.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on March 04, 2020, 08:59:49 AM
Quote from: footballfan911 on March 03, 2020, 08:38:52 PM
Co players of the year for Thompson and Alderete would not have surprised me. All 3 are very solid players and had great seasons. The one stat that was surprising to me was how many foul shots Thompson took on the season. Twice as many attempts as Alderete and at an 85% clip(not bad for a 5'11" guard). Alderete had a better % from the field and rebounded at a better clip than Mahoney. Mahoney led a 17-1 first place team. Tough call. I'm sure it was close.

All great points!! Thompson did open up the floor a bit for Alderete, as they covered him starting at about 30 feet. It is pretty incredible that Thompson was second in the league (and led the league at 86%) in free throw attempts. It shows that he not only threatened teams from deep, but that he was not afraid, at about 160 pounds soaking wet, taking it to the rim.

I'm sure that it was a close call between the three of them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ithaca798891 on March 04, 2020, 03:08:44 PM
One thing to remember with FTA is that they can be influenced by late-game fouls.

Thompson, for example, went 6-for-6 from the line in the last 1:12 of the LL Title Game, the first ones being shot with the Bombers up by 5. He went 4-for-4 in the last 54 seconds against Hobart, the first ones coming with IC up 7.

Those points count like all the rest on the scoreboard, but they're more driven by other teams' desperation and you having the ball than anything you're doing on offense.

That could push the scales in a tight race like this one
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on March 04, 2020, 03:31:25 PM
Shooting close to 90% from the line overall and 100% when the opponent is in foul mode will definitely inflate a players numbers, I'll give you that.  ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on March 04, 2020, 05:11:32 PM
Although.................with defenses the ilk of Hobart and RPI, I'm trying my damnedest to deny Thompson the ball and not let the league's #1 free throw shooter get to the foul line. I saw many games where he had no issue taking it to the rim...............and taking the beating from time to time for doing so. :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on March 05, 2020, 08:28:08 PM
Anyone with thoughts/predictions on the 1st round matchups ?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 06, 2020, 05:20:07 PM
RPI puts one W on the board for the LL, squeaking past NEC 58-57. Tufts (probably) or West Conn (probably not) tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on March 06, 2020, 05:42:29 PM
Quote from: footballfan911 on March 05, 2020, 08:28:08 PM
Anyone with thoughts/predictions on the 1st round matchups ?

Predictions?? Thompson will outscore D-I transfer, Danny Ainge's son. Thompson is getting to the rim almost at will, as stated previously. We need Sebastian to step up and play like a First Team Liberty League player. He looks way out of whack!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 06, 2020, 07:29:54 PM
Hobart wins! RPI wins! Ithaca wins! The selection committee WINS!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on March 06, 2020, 07:36:15 PM
LL goes 3/3 in first round!  Ok hoop experts, best first round ever for the league?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 06, 2020, 09:33:53 PM
big time attababies to the Bombers, Staties and 'Neers...proud night for the League of Liberty!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 06, 2020, 10:22:09 PM
LL in the sweet 16 , one day away
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2020, 12:23:36 AM
Quote from: Oline89 on March 06, 2020, 07:36:15 PM
LL goes 3/3 in first round!  Ok hoop experts, best first round ever for the league?

Don't have records by conference like that but I would think it has to be.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on March 07, 2020, 05:37:49 AM
Congratulations to the Liberty League for 3 wins in the NCAA Tournament on Friday.

The East Region had 6 teams in the Dance. Hobart, Ithaca, RPI, Brockport, Penn State- Harrisburg, and St. John Fisher.

Our region went 5-1 with only Fisher losing. Hopefully we can get a few teams into the Sweet 16 but they all have tough matchups today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on March 07, 2020, 07:00:52 AM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on March 06, 2020, 05:42:29 PM
Quote from: footballfan911 on March 05, 2020, 08:28:08 PM
Anyone with thoughts/predictions on the 1st round matchups ?

Predictions?? Thompson will outscore D-I transfer, Danny Ainge's son. Thompson is getting to the rim almost at will, as stated previously. We need Sebastian to step up and play like a First Team Liberty League player. He looks way out of whack!!

Facts on Thompson. Kid doesn't back down. Alderete came on strong in 2nd half and Sinon slammed the door in OT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on March 07, 2020, 10:32:01 AM
Quote from: footballfan911 on March 07, 2020, 07:00:52 AM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on March 06, 2020, 05:42:29 PM
Quote from: footballfan911 on March 05, 2020, 08:28:08 PM
Anyone with thoughts/predictions on the 1st round matchups ?

Predictions?? Thompson will outscore D-I transfer, Danny Ainge's son. Thompson is getting to the rim almost at will, as stated previously. We need Sebastian to step up and play like a First Team Liberty League player. He looks way out of whack!!

Facts on Thompson. Kid doesn't back down. Alderete came on strong in 2nd half and Sinon slammed the door in OT.

You're correct, Thompson backs down from nobody................that's why he is Caz's favorite player ;) .I saw Landry (sitting in the stands behind the Babson bench) shaking his head a few times during the first half when Thompson was killing it. I don't think that it's a reach to say that Swarthmore will have a few things up their sleeves for him!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2020, 10:35:23 AM

In fairness, Crewe Ainge isn't really a scorer, but Ithaca prevailed when it mattered.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on March 07, 2020, 10:53:10 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2020, 10:35:23 AM

In fairness, Crewe Ainge isn't really a scorer, but Ithaca prevailed when it mattered.

........................BUT, something did get him a D-I scholarship to a school who will be playing tonight for their conference championship and an AQ to the dance.

Don't tell me his last name was the sole reason ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2020, 10:55:34 AM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on March 07, 2020, 10:53:10 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2020, 10:35:23 AM

In fairness, Crewe Ainge isn't really a scorer, but Ithaca prevailed when it mattered.

........................BUT, something did get him a D-I scholarship to a school who will be playing tonight for their conference championship and an AQ to the dance.

Don't tell me his last name was the sole reason ;)

He's a very good PG, just not looking to score primarily.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on March 07, 2020, 12:22:32 PM
Ainge is a very solid PG. Enjoyed watching him play. Jaworski is very talented along with Coolahan. Very enjoyable game to watch no matter who you were rooting for. Great local Philly story on Coolahan and Thompson playing together all the way back to kindergarten. Came full circle for those two. Great night for  the Liberty League no matter what today brings. Pulling for RPI, Hobart and Ithaca 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on March 07, 2020, 05:35:21 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2020, 10:55:34 AM
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on March 07, 2020, 10:53:10 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2020, 10:35:23 AM

In fairness, Crewe Ainge isn't really a scorer, but Ithaca prevailed when it mattered.

........................BUT, something did get him a D-I scholarship to a school who will be playing tonight for their conference championship and an AQ to the dance.

Don't tell me his last name was the sole reason ;)

He's a very good PG, just not looking to score primarily.

Agree Ryan!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Oline89 on March 07, 2020, 09:18:28 PM
What a finish for the Statesmen!  Sweet 16!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 07, 2020, 09:21:08 PM
Way to go Statesmen!   Very impressive showing in a hostile environment.    RPI and Ithaca put up valiant efforts, nothing to be ashamed of. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 07, 2020, 11:00:14 PM
great efforts by IC on the road against #1 Swat and by RPI at Tufts. Major congrats to Hobart on the Sweet 16!

I wonder if Hobart will get the opportunity to host Christopher Newport. I think CNU should host their women's sectional (putting the men on the road) and Amherst should forfeit any rights to host next weekend since they closed the doors to fans yesterday and today...but that's just me talking.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2020, 12:57:11 AM
The host sites for the men's Sweet 16 have been released: https://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2020/bracket and game times: https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2019-20/ncaa-tournament?date=2020-03-13 and https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2019-20/ncaa-tournament?date=2020-03-14
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 08, 2020, 07:39:50 AM
Attended the game last night. Could't pass it up after seeing the team beat a very athletic Jim Calhoun St.Joe squad. The Springfield crowd was very loud and the Statesmen looked a bit overwhelmed at the start, but then settled down and played their team game in a hostile environment. Hobart fans almost matched the volume of the Pride fans. A few inappropriate maternal references by just a few Pride fans while Hobart left the court at halftime motivated the Statesmen who came back strong midway through the second half( archived on Springfield Athletics for D3 basketball fans). No. 22, Jake Ross for Springfield is an incredible D3 talent and almost scored half of the Pride points, but Hobart team defense stepped up big in the second half and with 7 seconds left Dan Messina( grandson of Rochester NBA player Al Messina and son of ex Hobart star) calmly took an inbounds pass, streaked down the court and scored the winning basket. The seniors were disappointed to not win the LL tournament, but the drama of getting off the bubble for an NCAA berth and beating a Hall of Fame coach friday and a great  Springfield College team at the birthplace of basketball is a  "once in a lifetime" feat. Rookie coach Thompson gave appropriate credit to his great coaching staff Smiley and Pysnack and the interviews on Springfield College You Tube demonstrate maturity beyond his 29 years . If I were Christopher Newport I would not want to play Hobart right now.
    RPI and Ithaca may have ended great seasons last night with valiant efforts, but the LL is still very much alive with a very resilient Hobart Statesmen team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on March 08, 2020, 08:49:45 PM
Congrats to Hobart. The Bombers gave a great effort in a hostile environment. Went toe to toe. There were definitely some tight butt cheeks in that gym. The head coach was clearly concerned as he was up and berating the officials on almost every trip down the floor. Great careers for Alderete, Thompson and Mitchell come to an end. One thing that has become concerning is crowd behavior after the final horn. It is one thing to berate and heckle the players during the game. That is part of college basketball and adds to the games. It is quite another for students to get in the faces of the opposing team when they are walking to the locker room mere seconds after their season and careers come to an end. Homophobic comments. Comments questioning their manhood, etc. Is that what we have come to as a society?  Be loud, go crazy during the game, and then have respect for all of the combatants after the final whistle. I have seen much too much of this the last couple of years and Saturday night was over the line. We need to be better than this.

Congrats also to RPI. Great season.

Future is bright for the Liberty League.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on March 08, 2020, 08:52:30 PM
Thanks for your game report Bartman. Congratulations to the Statesmen. I'm hoping they can continue their run. Also, nice job to RPI and Ithaca. The Liberty League once again makes it's mark in D3 sports.

Now I'm looking looking forward to a very competitive LL baseball season which starts soon. :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 08, 2020, 11:21:14 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=6w8mk/1suiql8xe7b8ab8p.jpg)

What an opening weekend of the NCAA tournaments? Upsets a plenty. Gyms closed to fans. Incredible finishes. And so much more. Sunday night on Hoopsville we tried to cover it all.

The show started with extensive information on decisions surrounding COVID-19. We discussed decisions by Johns Hopkins and Amherst to close their doors to fans for the first weekend's games. We also had reactions and statements on the choice to return to Amherst this coming weekend for the Sectionals in women's basketball and the college's decision to, once again, ban fans from attending.

We also talked about the incredible stories coming out of the tournament of how teams are moving on and how seasons came to a sudden and emotional finish. 

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Pat Coleman, Editor-in-Chief, D3hoops.com
- Todd Raridon, No. 11 North Central (Ill.) men's coach
- Jackson Meshanic (sophomore) & Stefan Thompson (coach), Hobart men's team (Frank Rossi interviews)
- Greg Dunne, No. 18 Brockport men's coach
- Andy Rang, No. 23 Trine women's coach
- Pat Manning, Williams women's coach
- Bob Quillman & Ryan Scott

Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Sunday's show On Demand in the following ways:
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Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 11, 2020, 10:05:12 AM
Quote from: UfanBill on March 08, 2020, 08:52:30 PM
Thanks for your game report Bartman. Congratulations to the Statesmen. I'm hoping they can continue their run. Also, nice job to RPI and Ithaca. The Liberty League once again makes it's mark in D3 sports.

Now I'm looking looking forward to a very competitive LL baseball season which starts soon. :)
Thanks Ufan...We need some LL support , similar to our support of Union in the Football playoffs...You've gotta like the second chance that the team got by making the NCAA tournament. This is a special team that can lock down on defense but has enough offensive weapons to win either from 3 point land or down low. I think they have a chance to win every game with solid rebounding , defense and overall toughness both physical and mental...they just need to limit turnovers and avoid cold shooting spells...first time ever in sweet sixteen, hope we make it past CNU for the elite eight..GOBART
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 12, 2020, 05:30:41 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=73mrs/m6gg5jcihb76rihu.jpg)

And with that, the 2019-20 seasons have come to a sudden end.

What a week it has been in college basketball. Exactly a week ago, as we hit the air, the first signs that COVID-19 was going to impact the NCAA Tournaments was seen. Since then, it has been a whirlwind.  

Tonight on Hoopsville, we try and make sense of one of the stranger finishes in history for NCAA events. What started with isolated closings of gyms for games ends a week later in all games being called off through the rest of the academic year.

We will chat with those who were preparing for games on Friday and hear their reactions to the seasons coming to a close so quickly.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Michelle Ferenze, No. 10 Whitman women's coach
- John Krikorian, Christopher Newport men's coach
- Cheri Harrer, No. 9 Baldwin Wallace women's coach

Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Thursday's show LIVE starting at 7:00 p.m. ET in the following ways:
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Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 12, 2020, 05:31:20 PM
So disappointing that NCAA cancelled the tournament. Hobart made it all the way to the sweet 16 and the way we were playing , I think we had a decent shot at beating CNU. Oh well, great season for Hobart, RPI and Ithaca going 4-2 combined in the tournament. I think the LL should get some respect next year. Thanks to the Statesmen for a great season and to the Seniors for 4 years of giving it your all....we will miss  you. Our team will be in good hands and I expect us to win the LL next year ;D as long as this damn virus is gone.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: footballfan911 on March 12, 2020, 07:05:48 PM
Well said Bartman. It was such a great weekend for the LL. What a sucker punch for Hobart, but especially for the Seniors who won and thought their dream was still alive. Hobart, Ithaca, RPI all had great seasons. Congrats to them as well as all the Seniors on great careers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 16, 2020, 06:15:51 PM
Hobart was ranked #20 in the final D3.com poll after defeating excellent teams from St.Joseph(CT) and Springfield. Congratulations to Coach Stefan Thompson and a great Statesmen team. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: jmcozenlaw on March 17, 2020, 01:08:35 PM
First Team All-East Region!!!!

Hey Caz........waddup? :) :) :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 19, 2020, 04:57:02 PM
Coach Thompson goes from East Rookie of the year in 2010 as Hobart's starting point guard to Coach of the year in 2020...an amazing Statesman....if you are a HS player just short of the D1 world, come play for Coach Thompson and become one of the Statesmen  ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 19, 2020, 09:48:38 PM
Looks like Hobart loses Lescoe, Fluerizard and Allen while RPI loses Wayland and Davis. I looked at last year's preseason poll and was shocked RPI was picked 6th(?) and they won the league by two games. Granted, Ithaca, picked 1st, beat them twice, once in the regular season and once in the conference tournament. Ithaca loses their top two guys in Thompson and Alderete, I believe.

So, is it RPI's to lose next year??
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 10, 2020, 04:53:16 PM
Jim Mullins retired today; Sean Burton promoted to head coach at IC.

https://twitter.com/BomberSports/status/1248714470463025153
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on April 13, 2020, 09:27:34 PM
Ithaca loses some firepower along with Mullins retiring, but I bet they'll be fine with Burton at the helm.  They won't miss too big of a beat.    Next year is going to be interesting.   RPI and Hobart should be top dog, and Union only loses one player.  I can't imagine Skidmore will be as poor as they were this year.   My alma mater did not have a great season but they were quite young and affected by injuries all year, including one who was supposed to be the starting center.   Doesn't hurt to have the last 2 LL rookies of the year in the starting squad next season.    I'd keep an eye out for Clarkson next year too.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Smitty Oom on April 14, 2020, 09:51:49 AM
Quote from: stlawus on April 13, 2020, 09:27:34 PM
Ithaca loses some firepower along with Mullins retiring, but I bet they'll be fine with Burton at the helm.  They won't miss too big of a beat.    Next year is going to be interesting.   RPI and Hobart should be top dog, and Union only loses one player.  I can't imagine Skidmore will be as poor as they were this year.   My alma mater did not have a great season but they were quite young and affected by injuries all year, including one who was supposed to be the starting center.   Doesn't hurt to have the last 2 LL rookies of the year in the starting squad next season.    I'd keep an eye out for Clarkson next year too.

It really should be an interesting battle in LL next year. A lot of good teams with quite a bit returning! Same goes with the SUNYAC, the east looks like it will be pretty strong, which is fun to see.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on April 14, 2020, 11:59:10 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on April 14, 2020, 09:51:49 AM

the east looks like it will be pretty strong, which is fun to see.

Just like the old days... eh Magic, Bear? ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: magicman on April 15, 2020, 07:17:47 AM
Quote from: hopefan on April 14, 2020, 11:59:10 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on April 14, 2020, 09:51:49 AM

the east looks like it will be pretty strong, which is fun to see.

Just like the old days... eh Magic, Bear? ;) ;) ;)

It would be, hopefan. Both the Liberty League and the SUNYAC could have multiple teams go dancing next year. I just hope there is a next year in college basketball. :(
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: nyhoopstalk on April 15, 2020, 08:51:53 AM
Quote from: stlawus on April 13, 2020, 09:27:34 PM
Ithaca loses some firepower along with Mullins retiring, but I bet they'll be fine with Burton at the helm.  They won't miss too big of a beat.    Next year is going to be interesting.   RPI and Hobart should be top dog, and Union only loses one player.  I can't imagine Skidmore will be as poor as they were this year.   My alma mater did not have a great season but they were quite young and affected by injuries all year, including one who was supposed to be the starting center.   Doesn't hurt to have the last 2 LL rookies of the year in the starting squad next season.    I'd keep an eye out for Clarkson next year too.

I believe this infusion of youth will propel Ithaca to becoming a major player in the LL/East Region for years to come. Between the campus and facilities at Ithaca, there is plenty of reason for top D3 prospects to consider playing basketball for the Bombers. I believe recruiting took a bit of a step back the last couple of years there; maybe this will inject some life into their recruiting efforts.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on April 15, 2020, 01:23:57 PM
Ithaca is definitely a beautiful campus and located with some great scenery.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 26, 2020, 03:03:29 PM
Nice to see some more local talent commit to SLU.    https://www.nny360.com/sports/highschoolsports/high-school-basketball-macaulay-brothers-commit-to-st-lawrence-university/article_fb363596-002a-505f-bceb-c154db0769f1.html    I was hoping Downs would try to recruit them but I thought they might get some lower end D1 offers or get snagged by Coach Bechtel at Potsdam.   One hallmark of any good SLU team in the past has usually been a local face or two on the roster.  Bardeschewski in '98, Sharlow, Shaver and Augliano in '07, J. Sharlow, G. Sharlow and Parham in '09 and '10 etc.

There's a pretty big haul of fresh faces coming into Canton next year.  Now at least 4 newcomers next year by my count, not including the minimum of 2 that were part of this season's recruiting. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 08, 2021, 09:10:30 PM
Some Liberty League action tomorrow night with Clarkson making the trip to Burkman Gymnasium.   I've had my guesses as to how many players SLU would have for this year and I was largely right.  There are only 8 players on the roster.   Several players that did not get much playing time last year which is what I thought would be the case.  2 starters from last year, with Hicks being the most notable roster inclusion.   He did a post grad year though so I can see why he wouldn't want to take a whole year off.  With the amount of recruits coming in next year there is going to be a pretty big roster next season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 26, 2021, 08:26:54 PM
Sean Burton resigns from IC effective immediately, per The Ithacan. That seems less than great.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 26, 2021, 08:35:23 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on April 26, 2021, 08:26:54 PM
Sean Burton resigns from IC effective immediately, per The Ithacan. That seems less than great.

He never coached a game, right?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on April 26, 2021, 09:39:43 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 26, 2021, 08:35:23 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on April 26, 2021, 08:26:54 PM
Sean Burton resigns from IC effective immediately, per The Ithacan. That seems less than great.

He never coached a game, right?

unblemished in any way 0-0 career record
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on May 24, 2021, 08:00:34 PM
IC's new head coach is Waleed Farid, head coach for the past 4 seasons (plus the 1-game 20-21 not-exactly-a-season) at Hartwick.

In my head he had won a lot of games there but looks like it was mostly his predecessor that did the winning. In fairness, almost nobody in any sport can win at Hartwick. Hopefully he can do a little more with a little bigger budget program.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 29, 2021, 02:24:38 PM
I totally missed it a few weeks ago, but looks like even SLU got in on the transfer portal action.   Niagara walk-on Will Engelhardt will suit up for the scarlet and brown this coming season, a great get by Downs. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 18, 2021, 06:54:30 PM
Getting close to that time folks.  Practices start up in just under a month.   Should be quite an interesting and entertaining season.   Many teams have their schedules up already.    One thing I have noticed is that Dan Masino from Hobart is now at Rochester as a grad student.   An unfortunate covid year casualty for the Statesmen as Hobart fans do not need to be reminded at how critical a piece to their team Masino was. 

RPI is likely the favorites to start.  They lost 2 starters but still have arguably the best player in the league (assuming Mahoney returns this season as he was a senior last year). 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 01, 2021, 10:12:17 PM
Not much chatter on here yet so I'll try and start things off this season with my way too early preseason prediction:

1. RPI
2. Hobart
3. SLU
4. Union
5. Ithaca
6. Skidmore
7. RIT
8. Vassar
9. Clarkson
10. Bard
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 04, 2021, 07:53:23 AM
Dan Masino will be a big loss. I presume Hobart didn't have a graduate program for him?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 06, 2021, 07:48:04 PM
So what is the mask policy for DIII games in NY?  Keuka and Hobart no masks, Alfred-Brockport are wearing masks, Union and Hartwick are wearing masks.   Is this an institution rule? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 06, 2021, 09:42:32 PM
it's going to vary institution by institution and you're just going to have to get used to it.

3-0 start for the LL as Bard, Hobart and Union all record road wins. Bard with the opportunity to make it 2-0 tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 06, 2021, 09:46:55 PM
Caz is right: Each institution can decide what the rules are on their campus. At most Liberty League schools, the players don't have to be masked, but the fans do. And these institutions make those decisions based on what the COVID numbers are both on campus and in the communities the campuses are in.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 06, 2021, 09:49:33 PM
I have no issue with institutions making the decision.  I thinking it was possibly a state public health thing until I saw the Hobart game. I'm grateful there are even games being played, I do not mean to come across as a crazy person here.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 06, 2021, 10:04:17 PM

There's also some NCAA guidance with regards to teams that have unvaccinated players. I doubt that's an issue in NY, but it could be for teams in other parts of the country.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 06, 2021, 10:23:23 PM
I know it was only Keuka but Chandler Owenby for Hobart looks lean and mean.  This guy's going to give the league some problems.   Long wing span with some serious athleticism.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 12, 2021, 08:15:29 PM
A decent Friday night thus far for the Liberty League with RPI, Hobart and SLU all notching wins.   An "off" night for Mahoney and RPI still handles business.  They are definitely the default favorites at the moment.   

SLU's D-I transfers put in some nice work tonight by accounting for half of the team's scoring.  Trent Adamson looks like to be a force in the post this year, he's added some bulk and is smooth as ever under the rim.  19 and 12 for him tonight.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 13, 2021, 04:06:34 PM
Gritty win for SLU against a decent Alfred side that was 3-0 heading into today's game.   An ice cold first 12 minutes in the 2nd half saw SLU's 9 point lead at half evaporate into an 8 point lead for Alfred.  SLU chipped away to force overtime and clutch free throw shooting from the Niagara transfer PG gives SLU the win.  Nice to see the team start strong after a 2 year absence. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 13, 2021, 07:04:02 PM
Mixed bag for the Liberty League today.   RPI with a really nice win at Naz after trailing most of the game.  As I said before they are the default LL favorites at the moment.  Hobart never even competed with Oswego who blew the doors off to start the game and Hobart could not get back in the game.   Skidmore with a nice win at Stevens, are the Thoroughbreds back?   Ithaca destroys Alfred State with the type of offense we've come to expect from the Bombers.   As I mentioned before SLU gets a nice win against Alfred to go 2-0 on the weekend.    Union has a mediocre performance against Lasell.   Union playing small to start the year as it appears Lovisolo has an injury.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on November 13, 2021, 10:13:22 PM
The Skidmore Stevens game was AT Skidmore.  Stevens had 2 starters back from their 2019-20 Sweet Sixteen team. Skidmore shot 26% from the floor, but converted 17x19 from the stripe for the win.  The two squads combined for 11x48 [23%] from the arc.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 13, 2021, 10:26:35 PM
I was just going off the Liberty League website which on the schedule says the game was played in Hoboken.  The box score does say it was played in Saratoga which I was too lazy to look at.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 14, 2021, 10:46:43 AM

We had it at Stevens in our system, too - I had to switch it.  Makes me think they changed the venue recently.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 14, 2021, 12:16:27 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 14, 2021, 10:46:43 AM

We had it at Stevens in our system, too - I had to switch it.  Makes me think they changed the venue recently.

Yes they did because Stevens volleyball is hosting a regional this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 15, 2021, 01:07:47 PM
RPI 2-0
SLU 2-0
Bard 2-0
Skid 1-0
Hobart 2-1
Ithaca 1-1
Union 1-1
RIT 0-1
Clarkson 0-2
Vassar 0-2

Games of interest (to me) this week:
Tues Brockport @ Hobart
Tues Potsdam @ Skidmore
Weds Cortland @ Ithaca
Fri SLU @ Potsdam
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 16, 2021, 09:23:31 PM
4-2 night for the Liberty League.  Skidmore plays a great 2nd half with hot shooting to erase a 14 point 1st half deficit against Potsdam.  RPI has no issue with Delhi.   Vassar gets back up to speed with a blowout against Hartwick.   SLU handles Plattsburgh at home sans Luke Hicks.  The Cardinals never had the lead at any point.  Plattsburgh entered the game winning 10 of the last 11 against SLU.

Clarkson actually put up a decent fight against Oswego on the road.  Very disappointing result for Hobart against Brockport.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on November 18, 2021, 11:20:29 AM
I didn't realize Andrew Geschickter, one of St. Lawrence's top players from two years ago, transferred to Ithaca until just now. Doesn't look like he's been putting up the numbers at IC that he did at SLU, but should be a useful piece down the line.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on November 18, 2021, 05:00:40 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on November 18, 2021, 11:20:29 AM
I didn't realize Andrew Geschickter, one of St. Lawrence's top players from two years ago, transferred to Ithaca until just now. Doesn't look like he's been putting up the numbers at IC that he did at SLU, but should be a useful piece down the line.

Yes and SLU picked up two Niagara transfers, 6-7 Will Englehardt who is leading the Saints in scoring at 20+, and adding 8 boards, and 5-11 PG Trey Syroka who is averaging 17 ppg and shooting 91% from the stripe, and is getting 8 FT attempts a game.  Two nice adds.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 19, 2021, 10:08:11 PM
4-0 night for the Liberty League.  Most surprising result was Skidmore hammering Plattsburgh in Plattsburgh.  The Cardinals were dominated from the opening tip. 

SLU moves to 4-0 with a win at Potsdam.   First half had few stoppages but then fouls really ramped up in the 2nd half.   The transfer portal still doing SLU good as both transfers score 16.  SLU is getting great PG play with Syroka slashing through opponent defenses thus far.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 29, 2021, 09:37:53 PM
RPI getting a well deserved top 25 ranking this week.   League play starts this week.  LL looks like it could be quite the slug fest this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2021, 08:42:59 AM
Slug fest?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 30, 2021, 03:57:23 PM
Yep, good catch on the typo.  I guess I was going with either slog or slug fest and came up with an erroneous idiom in the confusion.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 03, 2021, 09:13:09 PM
A nightmare offensive performance earns SLU its first loss.  You're not going to win a lot of games missing 8 free throws and giving your opponent 12 extra possessions on top of missing numerous open layups.   Clarkson surprisingly plays Skidmore close.   Biggest result by far is Vassar beating Ithaca.   The trip to Poughkeepsie has bitten many Liberty League teams over the years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 04, 2021, 06:35:02 PM
Perhaps Vassar is significantly better than I expected.  An impressive sweep of Ithaca and Hobart.  We knew Ithaca and Hobart would be down a bit but I did not think they would be that down.  Still very early for both of them to right the ship, however. 

Very good win for SLU today.   Things looked pretty dire after they went down 16 in the 2nd half but they finally started hitting shots while Skidmore cooled down.   Stormed back to win by 1 in a place they have lost many games in recent years.  Really good bounce back after yesterday's game, especially while having to play without Luke Hicks who remains injured.

RPI cruising at this point.   They are a complete team in all facets of the game.  The Engineers are poised to make a pretty good run in the NCAA tournament if all things hold.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on December 05, 2021, 10:50:31 AM
Ice Bear was very pleased with the Dutchmen victory over Clarkson yesterday in Shocktown. Clarkson seems to be really down this year but the Dutchmen were opportunistic, moved the ball well, and made plays both in the paint and behind the arc.

Ice was impressed with the play of Dutchmen Soph Edward Baptiste. Ice says the kid was quick and made some nice plays while on the court. Ice is looking forward to watching more Union basketball this season. Let's go U!

Ice also wanted to mention that he was impressed with the play and shooting of Shen (Clifton Park, NY) grad Sr Chris Hulbert for the Golden Knights. Ice says he made a couple beautiful, and Ice may add, highly contested threes that were just beautiful.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 07, 2021, 09:58:45 PM
Vassar improves to 3-0 in league play with wins against Hobart, Ithaca and Union just as we all expected.   Zach Johnson solidifying himself as one of, if not the best rebounder in the Liberty League.

Ithaca probably quite disappointed dropping tonight's game against UR.  Led most of the game only to lose in OT.  Despite having a size disadvantage at every position IC was too quick for UR most of the night and forced a lot of turnovers.   Some bad shots in the end cost them.  Having a hard time figuring Ithaca out. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 07, 2021, 10:08:25 PM
Vassar, good at men's basketball? What in the name of Lawrence Avitabile is going on around here?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 08, 2021, 09:48:47 PM
RPI with an expected 30 point win over Bard tonight to move to 7-0.

SLU has to grind it out against Clarkson to move to 6-1.   I thought Clarkson was better than their record when they played Oswego relatively tight in Oswego, and that proved true tonight.  SLU still hurting a bit offensively with Luke Hicks still out with an injury, but the route 11 rivalry game is frequently a tight matchup.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on December 09, 2021, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 08, 2021, 09:48:47 PM
RPI with an expected 30 point win over Bard tonight to move to 7-0.

SLU has to grind it out against Clarkson to move to 6-1.   I thought Clarkson was better than their record when they played Oswego relatively tight in Oswego, and that proved true tonight.  SLU still hurting a bit offensively with Luke Hicks still out with an injury, but the route 11 rivalry game is frequently a tight matchup.

Ice Bear saw some bright spots for the Golden Nights in their game against Union as well. Ice says they certainly have some kids who can compete.

Ice is really hoping the U plays Williams tough tonight and pulls the upset. Ice Bear says with the loss to what really seems to be a quality Vassar team this game could get the Dutch some momentum moving forward having a win on the road against a very quality opponent. Let's ****ing go U!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 09, 2021, 06:49:07 PM
Quote from: Ice Bear on December 09, 2021, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: stlawus on December 08, 2021, 09:48:47 PM
RPI with an expected 30 point win over Bard tonight to move to 7-0.

SLU has to grind it out against Clarkson to move to 6-1.   I thought Clarkson was better than their record when they played Oswego relatively tight in Oswego, and that proved true tonight.  SLU still hurting a bit offensively with Luke Hicks still out with an injury, but the route 11 rivalry game is frequently a tight matchup.

Ice Bear saw some bright spots for the Golden Nights in their game against Union as well. Ice says they certainly have some kids who can compete.

Ice is really hoping the U plays Williams tough tonight and pulls the upset. Ice Bear says with the loss to what really seems to be a quality Vassar team this game could get the Dutch some momentum moving forward having a win on the road against a very quality opponent. Let's ****ing go U!

Every time I've watched Union the last 3 or 4 years I've come away very impressed.  Maybe it's just because the Dutchmen have had SLU's number during that time span, but I've always thought this current crop of Union players could beat anyone.   A win tonight would put some serious respect on the Liberty League.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on December 09, 2021, 07:41:18 PM
Ice Bear says Union getting thumped down 20 at half...Ice says they're lucky they were even able to whittle it down to that. Ice Bear says Williams shooting daggers from 3 and exploiting Union's Swiss cheese D (Ice thanks Clyde for that). Ice says Union just really struggled shooting the ball and fell too ****ing far behind. Ice appreciates their fight though and the Dutchmen have not given up. Ice says with that being said this one is pretty much in the books. Ice is quite impressed with Williams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on December 09, 2021, 08:34:33 PM
Ice Bear says Union loses by 22 to a much better shooting team in Williams. Ice Bear says the Ephs have some talented players who are both tough in the paint and behind the arc. Ice says congrats to Williams on the win and the 8-0 record. Ice is proud of the heart Union showed never giving up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 12, 2021, 06:22:26 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=40wx5/mbexwhcrlqcil3kt.jpg)

For some programs, the start to the 2021-22 season has been better than expected. For others, it has been recording breaking.

On Sunday's edition of Hoopsville, we chat with coaches of programs whose teams are off to strong starts. Some of those starts might have been expected, but not all of them.

We chat with Heidelberg and RPI men's basketball program plus York (Pa.) and No. 7 Trine women's programs.

You can watch the show LIVE (or on demand) here: https://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2021-22/dec9

We are also simulcasting on our Facebook Live page (www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville))

Guests List (order subject to change):
- Heidelberg men's coach Andy Bucheit
- York (Pa.) women's coach Betsy Witman
- #7 Trine women's coach Andy Rang
- RPI men's coach Mark Gilbride

Hoopsville is hosted by Dave McHugh from the NABC Studios. It is presented by D3hoops.com and thanks to our partners at the WBCA and BlueFrame Technology.

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Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on December 15, 2021, 11:00:53 AM
Ice Bear already wishing his beloved Garnet had at least one more game to watch before the 30th...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deiscanton on December 27, 2021, 12:04:40 PM
Tweet just sent out from Brandeis Athletics at 11:47 AM Eastern Monday, December 27--

Due to a number of positive COVID-19 tests, this Thursday's Union game at Brandeis will not take place as scheduled on that day.  As of now, the game has been postponed to a future date to be determined.

Union has updated their men's basketball schedule to reflect the postponement of the Brandeis game:  unionathletics.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule/2021-22 (http://unionathletics.com/sports/mens-basketball/schedule/2021-22)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on December 27, 2021, 06:32:09 PM
Yep, and Skidmore's trip to California has been called off. We can expect more of this as students return to campuses ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on December 29, 2021, 07:37:39 PM
Dom Black and Patrick Mahoney not in the lineup for unbeaten RPI as they play Oswego in a tournament. It's early yet but it's not going well ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 29, 2021, 08:23:37 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on December 29, 2021, 07:37:39 PM
Dom Black and Patrick Mahoney not in the lineup for unbeaten RPI as they play Oswego in a tournament. It's early yet but it's not going well ...

Pretty unfortunate for RPI.  They really missed Mahoney's perimeter defense in this game, and obviously his scoring prowess. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on December 30, 2021, 10:48:36 AM
On further review:

Noticed that freshman PG Akhee Anderson (former NYS Class B HS player of the year) was a DNP for the Lakers yesterday in their win over RPI
.
Starter Jordan Brown 16 mins/gm was also a DNP.

It seems the very talented Jeremiah Sparks morphed into a point forward.

Lakers are second in the country in Scoring defense at 54.7 ppg.  Def have an old school style.

As noted RPI was missing some pieces, but Lakers were also down 2 starters.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 30, 2021, 02:45:12 PM
Good catch bear, I didn't notice that until checking the box scores last night.  Brown is also Oswego's 5 man, so it evened out in the end, still we would have liked to see both teams at full strength.

I saw Anderson play for Greenport in the 2019 NYS final four who lost in 3 or 4 overtimes that also saw current Scranton guard Jack Lambert break Adonal Foyle's final four single game scoring record.  Anderson transferred to Center Moriches the following year who lost Lowville and the Macaulay twins in the 2019 class B final four, and was likely going to be a rematch in 2020.   Definitely some interesting story lines about to clash in the next week.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 30, 2021, 02:46:00 PM
Good catch bear, I didn't notice that until checking the box scores last night.  Brown is also Oswego's 5 man, so it evened out in the end, still we would have liked to see both teams at full strength.

I saw Anderson play for Greenport in the 2019 NYS final four who lost in 3 or 4 overtimes to Cooperstown that also saw current Scranton guard Jack Lambert break Adonal Foyle's final four single game scoring record with 56 points.  Anderson transferred to Center Moriches the following year who lost Lowville and the Macaulay twins in the 2019 class B final four, which was likely going to be a rematch in 2020.   Definitely some interesting story lines about to clash in the next week.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 03, 2022, 05:35:16 PM
SLU never gets off the bus and earns their second loss @Oswego.   Every time they made a small run Oswego would throw in a 27 footer.  Careless turnovers and butter fingers on the defensive rebounding end gave Oswego about 15 extra offensive possessions which is a death sentence against a team with that quality.   They have to clean it up before the weekend @Vassar because the last time they played Vassar had more offensive rebounds than SLU had total.

All things considered I did not expect SLU to be 7-2 at this point, they have definitely improved.   With RPI having a similar fate against Oswego I think it's safe to say there won't be any pool C bids coming from the LL.   Although they do say this every year.


Also good to see Clarkson get a win against Plattsburgh.   They are definitely better than their record.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on January 03, 2022, 06:07:11 PM
I thought it interesting that several pieces were missing from both Clarkson and Plattsburgh's lineups.

Clarkson was missing Miles-Ferguson 15ppg, one of their top 3, and Plattsburgh was missing Conteh and Rodriguez each around 10 ppg. Clarkson on a 2 game win streak.

I thought Oswego did a great job against the SLU zone, I guess a school that close to Syracuse is quite familiar with how to attack that zone. 

The rebounding differential [Oswego 38, SLU 22] was a bit shocking to me.

Hamilton used an early second half surge to down Geneseo 75-65.

Medaille at Brockport was ppd.





Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 04, 2022, 05:24:34 PM
Down a starter Ithaca gets blown out at Cortland.  Ithaca won this game by 9 earlier in the season.

Skidmore put up a good effort at Middlebury but fell just short.  Skoric and Sobel was an entertaining matchup. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on January 04, 2022, 05:58:23 PM
AJ Lawton with 9 treys on the afternoon for the Dragons. Grunder added 23 pts, 14 rebounds.

Only player missing for Ithaca who played in the first game was Sikoryak. 

Cortland was missing 2 starters, Edwards and Cam Williams, so this is really a shocking outcome. 

Bombers were Massey 115, while Cortland was Massey 237. Going in Ithaca had been favored by 4.5.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 04, 2022, 07:36:18 PM
Definitely some odd things at work in the SUNYAC.   Ithaca suffered some major personnel losses going into this year, but have had a few good wins and should have beat Rochester.  SUNYAC just may be that much better this year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 05, 2022, 01:52:05 PM
RPI is on COVID pause. Not playing Union or Ithaca this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on January 07, 2022, 12:58:47 PM
Ice Bear is hoping his beloved Dutchmen have a strong showing against SUNY POLY. Ice Bear says after the homogenization the Dutchmen went through at the hands of a very solid Williams squad the Dutch could certainly use a positive to start the second half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on January 07, 2022, 04:05:13 PM
SUNY Poly could be a handful, they have a very good big in 6-6 Josh Gregory who is averaging 24 pts & 9 rebounds.  They also have 6-8 Jesse O'Dell who has already posted a triple double this year. They played a very good Nazareth team to a one point decision, and beat arch rival Utica who was 6-1. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 07, 2022, 07:52:51 PM
Only 2 games on the docket tonight.  Clarkson loses a tough one at Vassar.  I keep saying that they are better than their record and this game further proved it. 

As long as I can remember the Bard/Vassar roadtrip has been a tough out for SLU and tonight was no different.  SLU never gets into an offensive rhythm as Bard played a scrappy fast paced game and stayed in the game due to Elliot Harris shooting 5 of 10 from 3 in the second half.  11 missed FTs certainly did not help.  Trent Adamson had a rare off night finishing under the rim but is making a case for LL defensive player of the year with another 5 block game.  Nonetheless, they got the win. 

Vassar presents a very tough matchup for SLU tomorrow.  Zach Johnson is arguably the league's best rebounder and had 11 offensive rebounds the last time these two teams played.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on January 08, 2022, 04:03:42 PM
Ice Bear is very happy with the Dutchmen's 20 pt W today over SUNY POLY out in Utica today. Ice thinks this is exactly what the Hooping Garnet needed to start the second half of the season. Next up looks to be Vassar at home this Tuesday.

Congrats Coach Murphy on your 100th win at the U!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 08, 2022, 05:41:47 PM
Extremely porous 2nd half defense and awful FT shooting earns SLU a loss at Vassar just as I thought would happen since SLU never matches up well with them. Just a brutal final 10 minutes that saw Vassar go 11-14 in one stretch that included all of those points coming directly under the basket.    It is inexcusable to give up 44 points in the paint when you have that much length under the rim.  Vassar now undefeated in the league at 5-0.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 10, 2022, 04:44:51 PM
So I'm sure pretty much nobody expected Vassar to be 9-2 and first place in the Liberty League with a 5-0 record with wins against Ithaca, Hobart and SLU.  Shows you how much we knew (or didn't rather) after losing last year to covid.    If they're healthy RPI is still the favorite, but there's some more competition this year at the least.  I still think Ithaca is dangerous in the sense that they can beat anyone with their offense.  SLU is having a decent year but their PG has hit a bit of a first year wall which is having a noticeable effect.  Downs not being able to coach last weekend certainly didn't help. 

The most disappointing season so far is without a doubt Hobart.  The departures of Lescoe and Masino have really hurt the Statesmen.   They have the coaching to right the ship, and I highly doubt they spend more than one season in the dregs of the LL. 

I have said for the last 3 years that Union is also a dangerous team if they play to their potential and remain consistent.  They have a history of getting hot in the end and wrecking everyone else's season. 

Skidmore is also an interesting case.   They have the biggest starting 5 in the league, and have lost a few games that they should have won.  They played a very close game on the road against a very good Middlebury squad.   I can definitely see the Liberty League cannibalizing itself the next 2 months which unfortunately will likely result in the league losing some bids.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on January 12, 2022, 10:52:44 AM
Ice Bear says huge ****ing win for the Dutchmen last night at the Viniar Athletic Center in Schenectady! Dutch went down 16 early and battled back to win the game 79-65. Huge win for the U and brings them to 3-1 in the LL. Ice isn't sure if Union is consistent enough to make a run here but they couldn't have started the second half of the season better. Ice looks forward to their game Friday at RIT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 14, 2022, 09:16:29 PM
I don't really know what the thinking is behind SLU's offensive game plan, but they need to make changes ASAP or else they are going to start losing a lot of games.   High volume low % shots early in the shot clock while committing careless turnovers is going to play you right out of the Liberty League tournament.   The last 2 SLU opponents shot 23 more FG attempts combined.  Defensively they are fine, but they have started the 2nd half of almost every game making only 1 or 2 field goals in the first 8 minutes.



Vassar are becoming the comeback kings, as the last 3 games they've played they were down by a decent margin in the 2nd half only to come back to win. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on January 15, 2022, 12:01:36 PM
Ice Bear says another nice win for the Dutchmen last night at RIT. Some very clutch plays down the stretch and a couple more when it really counted. This evening Union heads to Pumpkinland to face the 3-7 (O-3 LL) Statesmen. Ice is a bit worried about this game after his U has won a few in a row. The Bear's Garnet has to play some sound ball this evening to avoid handing the Pumpkinheads their first LL W. The Bear says...

Let's Go U
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 15, 2022, 05:52:18 PM
Lots of upsets today.  Clarkson finally gets something to show for their efforts with a win against Ithaca.  It was not sustainable for Vassar to keep coming back late in the 2nd half and they finally go down to RIT.  Hobart comes up clutch at the end defensively to get their first league win against Union. 

And of course the only non-upset was SLU losing to RPI.  SLU's offensive horror show continues with a pathetic 41 point performance.  That's 81 total points on the weekend.   Again, they are sound defensively but the turnovers are going to keep costing them.  RPI with an astounding 30 points off turnovers today to only 7 for SLU.  That's your game. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on January 18, 2022, 12:02:29 PM
Ice Bear sighs...tough loss at the hands of Hobart. Ice knows this team is a bit inconsistent but he loves their effort and play. Ice Hopes for a solid effort and outing at Bard this Friday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 18, 2022, 08:59:42 PM
Skidmore gets back into the win column with a W against Hobart.  They've had some bad luck and I think they can beat anyone if their starters all play consistently.  They have the biggest starting 5 in the league by far.

RIT with a great effort against Ithaca to almost achieve the comeback but they fall short.  They were down 13 with 2 and a half minutes left and got it to within 1.

SLU puts together their first real complete game of the season with a 78-52 win @ Clarkson.   Clarkson was coming off a solid win against Ithaca but SLU's defense remained stalwart while the offense finally clicked.   SLU shot 65% in the first half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on January 20, 2022, 12:56:30 PM
Quote from: stlawus on January 18, 2022, 08:59:42 PM
Skidmore gets back into the win column with a W against Hobart.  They've had some bad luck and I think they can beat anyone if their starters all play consistently.  They have the biggest starting 5 in the league by far.

RIT with a great effort against Ithaca to almost achieve the comeback but they fall short.  They were down 13 with 2 and a half minutes left and got it to within 1.

SLU puts together their first real complete game of the season with a 78-52 win @ Clarkson.   Clarkson was coming off a solid win against Ithaca but SLU's defense remained stalwart while the offense finally clicked.   SLU shot 65% in the first half.

Ice Bear says nice W for SLU stlawus, the Bear congratulates you and the Saints. Ice thinks that was just what the Saints needed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 20, 2022, 06:09:12 PM
Thanks Ice Bear, another big weekend for the Saints and everyone else for that matter.   If the Dutchmen play to their potential against Bard and Ithaca they can put some cushion on their league record.  I say it every year, Union can be the most dangerous team if they play consistent.  It's a big if, but we've seen countless times Union get hot in the 2nd half of the year to wreck the rest of the league's seasons.

Biggest matchup of the weekend is Vassar @ RPI.   Are the Brewers for real?  Or are they playing above their skis?   Friday might tell us. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 21, 2022, 10:41:15 AM
Hobart COVID issues - they are NOT going to Clarkson or St. Lawrence this weekend, website says. And the beat goes on ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on January 21, 2022, 10:46:39 AM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on January 21, 2022, 10:41:15 AM
Hobart COVID issues - they are NOT going to Clarkson or St. Lawrence this weekend, website says. And the beat goes on ...

Ice Bear sighs with an...Ugh. Ice is sorry to hear this d3d3d3. Ice says it just keeps going... :(
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 21, 2022, 10:56:44 AM
Note also the Vassar-RPI game is being played at Siena with no spectators allowed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 21, 2022, 09:58:59 PM
Crazy night in the Liberty League.  RPI finally goes down.  It's safe to say Vassar is legit.  They put the screws to the Engineers from the opening tip. 

Bard wins in 2 OT in a back and forth exciting game with Union.   Thought for sure Bard was cooked when they missed 2 FTs at the end of the first OT. 

RIT beats SLU with a shot with 1 second left.   Really clutch shot that was contested.   SLU lost that game because they got absolutely nothing out of the PG position.   Wasted one of the best defensive performances of Trent Adamson's career, as he had 13 rebounds and 6 blocks.   RIT went into a zone in the 2nd half which to their credit worked really well as SLU kept bricking the same shot at the high post which led to 8 or 10 straight points for RIT.   


Only game that was somewhat expected was Ithaca winning at home against Skidmore.  Skidmore actually led for most of the game but ran out of gas at the end. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 22, 2022, 09:15:28 PM
We're a ways off from the Liberty League tournament, but does anyone know if the league reseeds after the first round?   It would basically better to be a 6th seed than a 4th seed since if you win the first round game you would play #2 instead of #1 if they didn't reseed. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ronk on January 23, 2022, 12:24:36 AM
 Generally, it should be easier to win that 1st round game as the 4th seed facing the 5th seed at home rather than as the 6th seed facing the 3rd seed on the road, if games are played at the home of the higher seed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on January 24, 2022, 10:44:51 AM
Ice Bear says tough weekend for his beloved Basketball Garnet. Ice was pleased with the effort, especially against Bard where the Dutch simply wouldn't go away. Ice loves the effort and resilience this team shows at times. Ice thinks they could be a problem against a higher seeded team come LL playoff time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 25, 2022, 10:36:29 PM
Odd league this year.   Hobart drops 100 on the road against RIT tonight.   Other results were expected though, as RPI gets back to their old selves and wins in Ithaca.  Bard made a nice comeback against Skidmore but fell short. 

One non-league game with SLU playing a previously postponed matchup against SUNY Canton.   Would be nice if SLU could play with that type of offense on a consistent basis.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 28, 2022, 11:42:30 AM
BIG weekend for RPI as they host Union and Ithaca... critical for both Ithaca and Union as they both battle for conference tourney position...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 28, 2022, 09:28:29 PM
Really good win for RPI tonight against Union.  Dominating win without Mahoney.  The Engineers' pack line defense was stifling.

Seems like every game Ithaca plays they play poorly for 30 minutes and then don't miss in the final 10 minutes to pull away.   

Greg Skoric falls 1 rebound short of a 20/20 against RIT who had no answer for him.   Skidmore could make a run.

Most surprising result tonight was definitely SLU getting the win against Vassar in a game of first team to score 50 wins. Despite the scoreline it was a pretty entertaining defensive battle.  Trent Adamson has blossomed into a great player.   The travel monster has claimed several upsets in the SLU-Vassar matchup, most notably in the 08-09 and 18-19 seasons, and now this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 29, 2022, 09:30:46 PM
St. Lawrence lost at home to Bard? I can hear stlawus grinding his teeth from here.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 29, 2022, 09:49:56 PM
Much teeth grinding was had.  Although I called that one in my head halfway through the first half.  Started the game poorly and you could see it coming.  Bard shot the ball well though.   Most of their threes were contested.  You can see how they almost beat Vassar.   Still a brutal loss for the Saints, as a win there would have given them some cushion in the standings.    Every bad loss from SLU has stemmed from inconsistent point guard play.   Unforced turnovers from the position in the 2nd half allowed Bard to stay in the game.    However, I did have them pegged to go 1-1 this weekend, just not with a win against Vassar and a loss against Bard.    I really had no idea what to expect with this year's SLU team given the amount of roster turnover since the last full season.  They're about where I thought they would be at this point, but it's still a bit disappointing given the 2 losses in the final seconds at home against 2 subpar teams.

It's RPI's race to lose at this point.  I'm not sure what Mahoney's deal is, but RPI beating Ithaca without him is a good sign for them going forward assuming he misses time.   Vassar smoked RPI the last time but I don't see that happening again.

Assuming Bard and Clarkson remain at the bottom, the standings race looks like it might really heat up in the next 3 weeks.  Pretty big log jam between 4th and 8th place with Hobart getting some wins, and Ithaca is no lock at 3rd place especially since they have to play RPI again.   



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 29, 2022, 11:41:37 PM
no, Ithaca played RPI twice this week. They finish with: at Union and Skidmore, home to CU/SLU, at RIT, home to Bard and Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 30, 2022, 01:21:00 AM
Good catch, must have just read the schedule wrong.   Does make the remaining schedule easier.   Union and Skidmore are complete wild cards, but I can see the Bombers winning out, with maybe a loss against Vassar. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on January 31, 2022, 12:02:13 PM
Quote from: stlawus on January 30, 2022, 01:21:00 AM
Good catch, must have just read the schedule wrong.   Does make the remaining schedule easier.   Union and Skidmore are complete wild cards, but I can see the Bombers winning out, with maybe a loss against Vassar.

Ice Bear agrees with this statement wholeheartedly. The mother****ing Bear has not been able to get a read on his beloved Garnet all season. They can be dangerous and shoot the ball well at times, and others, get run out of the gym by a team they may have been able to beat a day before. Ice Bear says inconsistency is just who they are. Ice loves them no matter what.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 31, 2022, 12:24:22 PM
is Hobart going to make up its scratched weekend in the North Country, and what about the Skidmore-RIT game from December that somehow never got re-scheduled?

I can see not worrying about games that won't impact the conference tournament (like Hartwick-Keuka in the E8), but these three seem kinda vital to who gets in and who doesn't.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 31, 2022, 05:12:45 PM
Hobart is making up their game against SLU next Tuesday and Clarkson next Wednesday.    Have no idea about Skidmore-RIT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 31, 2022, 07:17:17 PM
Quote from: stlawus on January 31, 2022, 05:12:45 PM
Hobart is making up their game against SLU next Tuesday and Clarkson next Wednesday.    Have no idea about Skidmore-RIT.

thanks. I suppose, as a certain recently departed rock star would say, two out of three ain't bad.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2022, 02:40:48 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 31, 2022, 12:24:22 PM
is Hobart going to make up its scratched weekend in the North Country, and what about the Skidmore-RIT game from December that somehow never got re-scheduled?

I can see not worrying about games that won't impact the conference tournament (like Hartwick-Keuka in the E8), but these three seem kinda vital to who gets in and who doesn't.

Other conferences in similar situations have changed their conference tournament to invite everyone, figuring that they would just let everyone in and decide it that way rather than create tiebreakers for these one-off scenarios. No idea whether the LL will follow suit, but a number of conferences have, including the NESCAC.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 01, 2022, 03:14:08 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2022, 02:40:48 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 31, 2022, 12:24:22 PM
is Hobart going to make up its scratched weekend in the North Country, and what about the Skidmore-RIT game from December that somehow never got re-scheduled?

I can see not worrying about games that won't impact the conference tournament (like Hartwick-Keuka in the E8), but these three seem kinda vital to who gets in and who doesn't.

Other conferences in similar situations have changed their conference tournament to invite everyone, figuring that they would just let everyone in and decide it that way rather than create tiebreakers for these one-off scenarios. No idea whether the LL will follow suit, but a number of conferences have, including the NESCAC.

certainly a good idea for leagues that have lost a lot of games to cancellations. If the LL ends up playing 98 of 99 scheduled MBB contests and all 99 women's games (as they are knock on wood on track to do), I don't think they'll let, say, Bard into the playoffs just for that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 01, 2022, 04:45:29 PM
Liberty League ADs have agreed that to be eligible for the tournament, a team must have played 13 of the 18 conference games minimum. I don't think anyone is going to have trouble hitting that number. Hobart is currently the low team with eight going into tonight, but they've got nine left on the schedule.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 01, 2022, 07:30:06 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on February 01, 2022, 04:45:29 PM
Liberty League ADs have agreed that to be eligible for the tournament, a team must have played 13 of the 18 conference games minimum. I don't think anyone is going to have trouble hitting that number. Hobart is currently the low team with eight going into tonight, but they've got nine left on the schedule.

Does that mean every team that has played at least 13 conference games makes the tournament, or does the conference tournament remain at 6 teams with all 6 having had to play 13 conference games?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 01, 2022, 08:49:29 PM
It means six teams will be in the playoffs - but none that didn't play at least 13 conference games.
Union is burying RPI. Mahoney not in the lineup ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 01, 2022, 09:22:51 PM
RPI comes almost all the way back but Union survives for the 69-67 upset. Home teams go 3-0 on the night with Bard beating Clarkson and Skidmore defeating Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 01, 2022, 09:25:42 PM
Union almost chokes it away.  Ice Bear was probably clenching his posterior in that final minute but his beloved Garnet held on.    Johnny Angbazo is probably going to think twice now about doing a pull up on the rim when his team is down 9.   Good bounce back win for Union after a 5 game losing streak.  RPI was completely out of it without Mahoney, an extremely uncharacteristic 22 turnovers including 2 really bad ones by Dom Black in the final minute.   

Skidmore puts on an offensive show against Hobart to reach a quiet 6-4 in the league.  Starting to look like we might have our 6 conference tournament teams barring a strong finish from RIT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on February 02, 2022, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: stlawus on February 01, 2022, 09:25:42 PM
Union almost chokes it away.  Ice Bear was probably clenching his posterior in that final minute but his beloved Garnet held on.    Johnny Angbazo is probably going to think twice now about doing a pull up on the rim when his team is down 9.   Good bounce back win for Union after a 5 game losing streak.  RPI was completely out of it without Mahoney, an extremely uncharacteristic 22 turnovers including 2 really bad ones by Dom Black in the final minute.   

Skidmore puts on an offensive show against Hobart to reach a quiet 6-4 in the league.  Starting to look like we might have our 6 conference tournament teams barring a strong finish from RIT.

Ice Bear almost regurgitated a seal stlawus...he was ecstatic that the U was able to hang on though and get that quality W after a pretty disheartening couple of weeks. Ice Bear says defeating RPI in anything is very enjoyable (however the Bear really respects RPI across the board and has lost his hatred of them that stemmed from when he was a cub) and Ice really didn't think the Dutch were going to be competitive against the Engineers last night. Ice bears sighs as he's reminded again how he just can't get a read on the Dutch.

Ice also is thankful for this win as last night he was going back and forth between the basketball game and the hockey game where his Dutchmen were embarrassed at home by a first year D1 team in LIU. While LIU has some quality transfers (including an excellent former D3 player from UMass Boston) and some impressive speed the Dutch didn't even show up.

Ice is looking forward to the LL playoffs as they may certainly provide some fireworks (and heartburn) for all of us. Ice wishes everyone a great day.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 04, 2022, 09:32:23 PM
I was going to comment that there weren't any upsets tonight as it looked like RPI was going to finish off Skidmore in regulation but the Thoroughbreds close out regulation to tie and seal the win in overtime.   I've said before that Skidmore is a team to keep an eye on, and now they've won 5 in a row.   Big matchup tomorrow between them and Ithaca.  RPI had Mahoney back for that game, but their lack of depth is starting to hurt them down the stretch.     

Vassar now leads the league just like everyone expected them to at this point in the season. 

RIT has a chance to be a pest down the stretch.   They're now in the 6th spot with Union's loss tonight. 

I guess technically SLU beating Hobart is an upset according to Massey, but record wise it wasn't.  Luke Hicks finally playing like his old self as SLU closes out the game on a 21-4 run. 

Congratulations to Chris Downs, as tonight's win against Hobart was his 350th victory. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 05, 2022, 06:49:58 PM
What a game at Skidmore, where Ithaca snaps the Thoroughbreds' streak in triple OT. At Vassar, RPI wins by three but Mahoney went down in a heap after hitting a huge shot with 1:10 left. He didn't return.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 05, 2022, 08:19:56 PM
Wow do I feel like an idiot.  I had the Ithaca-Skidmore live stats up and closed them out when Skidmore was up 8 in the last 2 minutes.  Once the SLU game was over I went and got pizza and am just learning I missed a double OT game.    We might be in for a wild ride the next few weeks, the standings could change dramatically.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 06, 2022, 06:24:26 PM
That Mahoney injury looked pretty bad.   Non contact injury that made him go down in an instant.   I hope it's not an achilles. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 08, 2022, 05:42:34 PM
RPI and Ithaca included in the first set of regional rankings.  Ithaca is a bit of an interesting selection, lost to Vassar and has 2 losses against RPI who Vassar has a road win against.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 08, 2022, 08:07:17 PM
Hobart beat St. Lawrence in the first of four games this week for the Statesmen. Mahoney not in the lineup for RPI; game vs. Bard starting 40 minutes late because the refs didn't show up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 08, 2022, 08:52:31 PM
Beach ball sized offensive egg laid by SLU tonight.  All credit to the Statesmen who played great D and couldn't miss in the 2nd half.   Skidmore and Union has some pretty major standings implications.  As d3d3d3 mentioned Mahoney not in the lineup with a walking boot.  I really hope it's not a long term injury.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 09, 2022, 02:32:20 PM
Hobart cruised by Clarkson this afternoon.

RIT COVID issues. They're not going to Vassar or Union this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 09, 2022, 05:40:23 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 06, 2022, 06:24:26 PM
That Mahoney injury looked pretty bad.   Non contact injury that made him go down in an instant.   I hope it's not an achilles.

Sorry to report that I received an email today from Coach Gilbride that confirmed RPI senior tore his Achilles....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 09, 2022, 06:09:18 PM
Quote from: hopefan on February 09, 2022, 05:40:23 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 06, 2022, 06:24:26 PM
That Mahoney injury looked pretty bad.   Non contact injury that made him go down in an instant.   I hope it's not an achilles.

Sorry to report that I received an email today from Coach Gilbride that confirmed RPI senior tore his Achilles....

Absolutely devastating to hear.  Best player in the Liberty League, just an awful way to end his career.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 09, 2022, 06:15:38 PM
Tough for him and his team, see that he is listed as a fifth year student on their website.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 09, 2022, 09:33:43 PM
RIT-Union back on the schedule, Monday in Schenectady. RIT-Vassar is cancelled and one has to presume Skidmore-RIT is never gonna get rescheduled either. Lame.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on February 10, 2022, 12:11:38 PM
Quote from: hopefan on February 09, 2022, 05:40:23 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 06, 2022, 06:24:26 PM
That Mahoney injury looked pretty bad.   Non contact injury that made him go down in an instant.   I hope it's not an achilles.

Sorry to report that I received an email today from Coach Gilbride that confirmed RPI senior tore his Achilles....

Ice Bear says this is awful. Ice says he feels badly for Mahoney. The Bear says he is a great player!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 12, 2022, 05:54:46 PM
Despite the Mahoney injury RPI keeps chugging along and are in good position to host the tournament with 2 relatively easy games left on their schedule.   

If Vassar wins out and RPI drops a game Vassar will host, as they defeat a shorthanded Skidmore squad today.

Hobart has put together a nice past few weeks and are definitely in contention to make the LL tournament.  Should beat Bard again but they have a few tough games remaining. 

Very unfortunate for Skidmore to lose several top scorers this weekend due to covid protocols, a couple wins would have likely locked them into top 4. 

Best offensive performance by SLU thus far as they edge out Ithaca by a point in a very chippy game. They were down 18 in the first half, great coaching job by Downs.  Probably the last time the Ithaca broadcast team will speculate a game already being over with 8 minutes left in the first half.

Some pretty harsh words for the refs from the IC head coach at the end of the game that were very audible.  Not going to do yourself any favors with the refs going forward when it's your first year coaching in the league. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2022, 03:47:50 PM
Week 2 Regional Rankings - which are ranked now: https://d3hoops.com/notables/2022/02/men-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 15, 2022, 03:55:16 PM
I'm not really getting Ithaca still being regionally ranked. What's the reason they are in ahead of Vassar?  Vassar has a few bad losses but so does Ithaca.   Vassar has an equally strong win @RPI compared to IC's win @Susquehanna.  Vassar also won the only head-to-head matchup thus far.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2022, 03:58:53 PM
Ithaca's numbers are FAR better than Vassar's...

Ithaca SOS: .543 ... non-conf SOS .606 ... vRRO 0-3
Vassar SOS: .4836 ... non-conf SOS .413 ... vRR0 none

There is nothing in those numbers alone (though, non-conf SOS is secondary) that indicates Vassar should be ahead of Ithaca other than a slight advantage of WL%.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 15, 2022, 04:47:28 PM
Ithaca's best win in region is @Skidmore.  Vassar's is @RPI.   I'm far from an expert in these matters but it seems like quality wins should matter a bit more.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2022, 07:08:34 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 15, 2022, 04:47:28 PM
Ithaca's best win in region is @Skidmore.  Vassar's is @RPI.   I'm far from an expert in these matters but it seems like quality wins should matter a bit more.

Those kinds of things are not discussed, unless those quality wins happen to be over regionally ranked teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2022, 08:05:19 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 15, 2022, 04:47:28 PM
Ithaca's best win in region is @Skidmore.  Vassar's is @RPI.   I'm far from an expert in these matters but it seems like quality wins should matter a bit more.

We don't know what is or isn't considered ... and earlier you were talking about looking more at losses ... which committee members will tell you there is no metric to measure at all.

But when the difference in SOS numbers are THAT significant ... and the WL% isn't that large a difference, the team with the strong SOS is going to be noticed. And Ithaca has NO results versus regionally ranked opponents. NONE. Even though Ithaca has three and they are all losses... it speaks to their schedule. Vassar's schedule is basically non-existent. One game here or there in Vassar's favor isn't going to overcome these issues (Skidmore isn't ranked).

Furthermore, Ithaca is ranked 7th ... it isn't saying much. They aren't getting an at-large position from that spot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 15, 2022, 08:45:14 PM
DISREGARD EVERYTHING I'VE SAID ABOUT THE RESULTS VERSUS REGIONALLY RANKED OPPONENTS!!!

I just got done talking to the committee chair and the data we think is vRRO is NOT.

I explained it more here: http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.msg2036389#msg2036389

How that impacts the argument for Vassar and Ithaca ... I don't know. The SOS and non-conf SOS is still valid. That still strongly favors Ithaca. The fact Ithaca wouldn't be in the tournament as an at-large is still valid. Whether Vassar should have a stronger argument ... remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 15, 2022, 09:38:49 PM
Ithaca has a win against Susquehanna who are regionally ranked in Region 5.  I would think that would count as a win against a RRO.  However, that seems to be their only win against a RRO.  Vassar has wins against RPI and Ithaca, which would obviously be 2 wins against RRO.  Both teams have some bad losses, but I can buy the argument about SOS.  Does any more weight go into wins against an RRO in your own region, or is a win against an RRO standard across the board?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2022, 11:14:16 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 15, 2022, 09:38:49 PM
Ithaca has a win against Susquehanna who are regionally ranked in Region 5.  I would think that would count as a win against a RRO.  However, that seems to be their only win against a RRO.  Vassar has wins against RPI and Ithaca, which would obviously be 2 wins against RRO.  Both teams have some bad losses, but I can buy the argument about SOS.  Does any more weight go into wins against an RRO in your own region, or is a win against an RRO standard across the board?

Wins in region help, but really all regional wins are calculated and evaluated ... it depends on where they are ranked as well. Wins against higher ranked teams will be viewed better than wins against lower ranks, especially lower ranks this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on February 18, 2022, 09:17:01 PM
Wow. Vassar loses to Hobart. Union loses to Clarkson. Skidmore loses to St. Lawrence. It was an eventful evening.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 18, 2022, 09:31:35 PM
Make it 2 straight games SLU wins by a point with their opponent having the last shot.  At the tender age of 30 I worry my vascular system will be unable to continue handling these games!    Massey predicted a 65-63 win for SLU, and the final result was 65-64.  Sometimes the computers are spot on

Tons of scenarios now after tonight's results.    The game that Skidmore and RIT haven't made up also have some big implications as it appears they are not going to make it up.   

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 18, 2022, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 18, 2022, 09:31:35 PM
Make it 2 straight games SLU wins by a point with their opponent having the last shot.  At the tender age of 30 I worry my vascular system will be unable to continue handling these games!    Massey predicted a 65-63 win for SLU, and the final result was 65-64.  Sometimes the computers are spot on

Tons of scenarios now after tonight's results.    The game that Skidmore and RIT haven't made up also have some big implications as it appears they are not going to make it up.   

RPI guaranteed to host the semis and finals in an empty gym. Very cool, not totally f***ed up at all.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 18, 2022, 10:24:29 PM
too bad I can't attend the Vassar at Ithaca doubleheader tomorrow. Women's winner takes the regular season title; men's winner earns a bye to the semifinals.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 18, 2022, 11:33:51 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 18, 2022, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 18, 2022, 09:31:35 PM
Make it 2 straight games SLU wins by a point with their opponent having the last shot.  At the tender age of 30 I worry my vascular system will be unable to continue handling these games!    Massey predicted a 65-63 win for SLU, and the final result was 65-64.  Sometimes the computers are spot on

Tons of scenarios now after tonight's results.    The game that Skidmore and RIT haven't made up also have some big implications as it appears they are not going to make it up.   

RPI guaranteed to host the semis and finals in an empty gym. Very cool, not totally f***ed up at all.

Backfired on them for men's soccer.   You'd think someone in the administration would finally get a clue but they continue to act like they know more than the CDC and local health departments.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 19, 2022, 06:27:26 PM
The field is set.  Unfortunately for the Ice Bear the Dutchmen are the odd man out.  Ithaca ends up sneaking ahead of Vassar to get the first round bye.   Vassar will play Hobart and SLU will play Skidmore. 

Props to the Engineers for finishing the season strong without Mahoney to wrap up the Liberty League regular season title.  They did not seem to miss a beat down the stretch.   

Also great job by the Hobart coaching staff and players to extend their season.   Things looked really dire for the Statesmen a month ago, but they won 6 of their last 8 to get the last spot in the LL tournament. 

Very happy with the way SLU played this weekend to get the 4th seed.  Union has had their number the last few years, but they played as good of an offensive game today as I've seen them play all season.  Luke Hicks finally seems to be over his injury woes and Trent Adamson is dominating inside on both sides of the floor. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 19, 2022, 08:41:54 PM
relieved to see that ultimately the two games RIT didn't play had zero relevance on the final standings and seeding.

hearing whispers that the doors will in fact be open at RPI next weekend to supporters of Ithaca, Vassar/Hobart and SLU/Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: tony/troy on February 22, 2022, 02:37:42 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 19, 2022, 08:41:54 PM
relieved to see that ultimately the two games RIT didn't play had zero relevance on the final standings and seeding.

hearing whispers that the doors will in fact be open at RPI next weekend to supporters of Ithaca, Vassar/Hobart and SLU/Skidmore.

Appears Not. Not even for OUTDOOR baseball tomorrow or lacrosse over the weekend. Neither OUTDOOR event is likely to gather even 100 spectators and yet no "external" spectators are allowed. 100 or less not allowed at a baseball facility with a large viewing area and ditto for lacrosse played in a stadium holding over 5,000!!!. As hard as it may be to comprehend for those not from this area, just can't make up the stuff these people come up with. Doubt even the people who write WWE storylines could get there!!!

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 22, 2022, 05:16:43 PM
Quote from: tony/troy on February 22, 2022, 02:37:42 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 19, 2022, 08:41:54 PM
relieved to see that ultimately the two games RIT didn't play had zero relevance on the final standings and seeding.

hearing whispers that the doors will in fact be open at RPI next weekend to supporters of Ithaca, Vassar/Hobart and SLU/Skidmore.

Appears Not. Not even for OUTDOOR baseball tomorrow or lacrosse over the weekend. Neither OUTDOOR event is likely to gather even 100 spectators and yet no "external" spectators are allowed. 100 or less not allowed at a baseball facility with a large viewing area and ditto for lacrosse played in a stadium holding over 5,000!!!. As hard as it may be to comprehend for those not from this area, just can't make up the stuff these people come up with. Doubt even the people who write WWE storylines could get there!!!

I highly doubt that baseball game is even happening, lacrosse 50-50. Big snow coming.

EDIT: didn't read closely enough to note baseball was moved up from Saturday to Wednesday. Oops.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 22, 2022, 11:24:20 PM
Just back from Burkman where SLU's season came to an unceremonious end with a poor offensive effort against Skidmore.   5-34 from the field in the first half :o :o    Had a feeling something like that would happen, almost felt pre-determined with the whole it's hard to beat a team 3 times mantra.  SLU missed plenty of open layups but Skidmore was dialed in defensively.

I don't mean to come off as sour grapes but that was an awful display of coaching from Joe Burke.   Whined, complained and stomped around after 90% of the calls in the game.  That was a bit embarrassing for someone who is one of the premier coaches in the league.  It's unfortunate for the players as every single player on Skidmore was classy and showed no bad sportsmanship.

I see Vassar escaped with a narrow win over Hobart. Unless several players regress next year one would assume they will be a preseason favorite as they return everyone.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 23, 2022, 06:11:27 PM
fans will be allowed at RPI this weekend, per their website. Mask and show your card.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 26, 2022, 03:43:38 PM
Skidmore smokes RPI.  They were up 10 pretty much the whole game and pulled away at the end.  RPI's lack of depth really hurt them this game, but I don't know if it would matter. Skidmore continues to shoot the ball well and play good defense.   One would assume RPI is still a pool C team, but who knows at this point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 26, 2022, 08:42:07 PM
I think RPI is done. Their resume as usual is pretty thin gruel. A one point win over Nazareth is all that separates them from being absolute no-chancers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 27, 2022, 08:08:13 PM
Looking back at my old posts I picked Vassar to finish 8th.  Shows you how much I know.    I doubt anyone expected them to be top 3, however.   Great season for the Brewers winning their first ever Liberty League title. They led for almost the entire weekend and played well balanced basketball.   Best of luck to them next weekend and let's hope they represent the Liberty League well!     

RPI is likely a pool C pick, but you never know. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 27, 2022, 09:02:59 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 27, 2022, 08:08:13 PM

RPI is likely a pool C pick, but you never know.

Drew Pasteur, who is a stats professor at College of Wooster, says Rensselaer should get the 12th out of 20 Pool C. Bids, He gets about 92% of the Pool C bids correct.

It also looks like Oswego, ranked 16th, could wind up hosting a first weekend pod because of a central location, you can bring teams from New England, PA, and Ohio there. [Might never get home with the snow, but hey].
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: WPI89 on February 28, 2022, 02:16:26 PM
Hey folks - looks like WPI v Vassar.  WPI had a really strong regular season and I was personally hoping for an "easier" matchup than a hot Vassar team.  WPI is a super disciplined, good inside-out game.  When they hit 3s they can beat anyone (not earth-shattering news there), tenacious 3/4 court D, 7 deep can score double figures.  But they can go into offensive lulls.

Good luck - let me know if you need any recommendations in Worcester if you are going.  I will be there Saturday if we are fortunate enough to get by Vassar. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2022, 02:17:47 PM

Is Lowther going to be back?  Big difference maker for WPI one way or the other.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: WPI89 on February 28, 2022, 02:19:21 PM
Yes, Ryan - coach B used him semi-sparingly in the conference championship - he had 23 against Emmerson.  I do not believe any setbacks - he should be good to go - if not the full 40 - a significant portion.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 02, 2022, 10:34:59 PM
I feel like Kevin Ryan Mee and the Vassar coaching staff got shafted.   In a vacuum it makes sense that RPI's staff gets the COY honors due to being regular season champs, but those were the expectations for that team.  Absolutely no one thought Vassar would finish 3rd in the league coming off an 11-15 season in 19-20. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SpringSt7 on March 02, 2022, 10:43:33 PM
Ryan Mee got shafted too.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 03, 2022, 12:34:47 AM
Wow what a flub on my part.  Was reading up Williams on another tab and had Kevin App on the brain apparently  ??? ???

At least, that's the excuse I'm rolling with.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 04, 2022, 07:56:51 PM
Liberty League 1 for 2 in the first round.  Vassar was just outmatched at every position.  WPI completely neutralized their inside out game.   

RPI had a very good win by holding a 90 PPG Nichols to 58.  And this is still all without Mahoney. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 05, 2022, 09:40:29 PM
Great win tonight for RPI in a hostile environment.  That was a textbook RPI performance.  Shut down Wesleyan's center and forced a ton of turnovers.   Way to represent the Liberty League.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 06, 2022, 11:33:50 AM
Quote from: stlawus on March 05, 2022, 09:40:29 PM
Great win tonight for RPI in a hostile environment.  That was a textbook RPI performance.  Shut down Wesleyan's center and forced a ton of turnovers.   Way to represent the Liberty League.
+k for recognizing RPI on this fairly inactive board. I'm checking in as a disappointed Hobart fan that is still stuck on the win over Springfield before the disappointing Covid shutdown. Having watched all of the LL teams this year, RPI plays very well as a"team" that deserved a slot despite not winning the LL tournament. I think they have a good chance to get past WPI. Go LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 06, 2022, 01:05:40 PM

+k for recognizing RPI on this fairly inactive board. I'm checking in as a disappointed Hobart fan that is still stuck on the win over Springfield before the disappointing Covid shutdown. Having watched all of the LL teams this year, RPI plays very well as a"team" that deserved a slot despite not winning the LL tournament. I think they have a good chance to get past WPI. Go LL.
[/quote]

Interesting factoid - WPI lost at Wesleyan [one of two losses] in November by 24 giving up 80 points. They also beat Vassar, which won RPI's league; by 19 in the tournament.  RPI defense is ranked #3.  Sound defense usually travels well in the tournament.  That being said; the prize for winning the third round game is #1 Randolph-Macon on their home court.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 07, 2022, 08:11:23 PM
Quote from: Bartman on March 06, 2022, 11:33:50 AM
Quote from: stlawus on March 05, 2022, 09:40:29 PM
Great win tonight for RPI in a hostile environment.  That was a textbook RPI performance.  Shut down Wesleyan's center and forced a ton of turnovers.   Way to represent the Liberty League.
+k for recognizing RPI on this fairly inactive board. I'm checking in as a disappointed Hobart fan that is still stuck on the win over Springfield before the disappointing Covid shutdown. Having watched all of the LL teams this year, RPI plays very well as a"team" that deserved a slot despite not winning the LL tournament. I think they have a good chance to get past WPI. Go LL.

This board used to be fairly active.  Even just 3 years ago there was a good amount of posting from various folks on here.  I wonder why it stalled so much.  It had slowed down quite a bit the season before the pandemic hit.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 11, 2022, 06:17:32 PM
Great effort from RPI but they fall short a point.  Ran a good inbounds play for the final shot that would have given them a great look but the pass was broken up.    Excellent season for the Engineers and represented the league well.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 12, 2022, 11:03:27 AM
Quote from: stlawus on March 11, 2022, 06:17:32 PM
Great effort from RPI but they fall short a point.  Ran a good inbounds play for the final shot that would have given them a great look but the pass was broken up.    Excellent season for the Engineers and represented the league well.
Great RPI season and effort yesterday. The college with the most draconian Covid shutdown rules had the best Football and Basketball seasons. Perhaps isolating the teams brought them together more.... :o
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 23, 2022, 07:54:05 PM
I've seen lots of discussion of other leagues with regard to returning players, so I figure I'll do the same with the LL. 

RPI loses Mahoney, Memmelar, and Black.  That's a lot of firepower and defense.  This is assuming Black and Memmelar do indeed graduate, you can't be sure at this point.  The few players that stepped in at the end in Mahoney's absence played well, and they are extremely well coached.  That's a lot to replace, but I see no reason to believe RPI won't be battling for a top 4 spot.

Ithaca loses 2 of their starting guards along with leading scorer Radovich.  They have a couple young contributors returning, but losing Sinon and Radovich will hurt.

Vassar returns all 5 starters.   It will be interesting to see if there will be any regression next year or if they will take another step. 

SLU loses Hicks who started off and on throughout the season, mainly due to injury.  He came on at the end of the year and shot the ball well.  SLU played 5 first year/freshmen this past season, and the Macaulay twins improved significantly by the end of the year.  Adamson and Engelhardt will be the senior leaders from a scoring standpoint, and Miles Davis will be the #1 defensive option as he's dramatically improved since his first year.   I expect SLU to be competing for a Liberty League regular season title next year.

Skidmore loses one starter.  They could be very dangerous next year.  Skoric has improved every single year and they have several high volume scorers returning.  They had the biggest team in the league last year and can score from everywhere on the court.  Skidmore will likely be competing for a regular season title.

Hobart loses 2 starters including a multi year starter in Lesure.  But they bring back a lot of firepower including Meshanic.  They will likely greatly improve on their record next year as they bring back the LL ROY.

I have no idea about Union.  They have been very inconsistent the last few years.  Losing Manley and Noone will hurt.  If Concannon comes back next year that will help, but I am not going to assume he will yet. 

RIT returns mostly everyone including their top scorers.  Kevin Ryan has developed into a scoring threat in the post, but RIT was very poor defensively last year.   They were the 2nd best offense but worst defense.  Their scoring kept them in some games like @Ithaca, but defense was their downfall.  Unless there is dramatic defensive improvement they will be battling for the last playoff spot.

Bard returns basically everyone.  They have some good shooters and their coach seems decent enough, but until they prove otherwise I don't see them in the upper half of the conference. 

I said all year that Clarkson was much better than their record showed.  They lost several close games and beat Ithaca.  If Swedberg was healthy all year I think they win a few more games.   They will be hurt with Hulbert graduating (assuming he does indeed graduate) but return a nice core with Gearhardt and Fravel.  Fravel can hang with any big in the league.   Clarkson could be able to compete for the last playoff spot.

Again, please keep in mind most of this is tentative, as there is no way to know if the players I mentioned are actually graduating or taking a 5th year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 25, 2022, 02:36:28 PM
Good work, stlawus +1
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on April 07, 2022, 08:14:35 PM
Currently covid positive, so I have some time on my hands to post a list of known recruits for next year.  Incomplete list obviously, will be a work in progress.

RPI:

Dylan Matchet 6'2" G, Choate MA


Ithaca:

Gavin Schauder 6'8" F, Spring-Ford PA

Cole Wissink 6'4" G, Chesire CT




SLU:

Chris Downs Jr, 6'6" F, Canton NY


Hobart:

Niko Lutz 6'7" F/C, Brockton MA


Union:

Kidder Lindley 6'4" G, Pitsford-Mendon NY


No known recruits for Vassar, Skidmore, RIT, Bard and Clarkson. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on April 14, 2022, 06:08:01 PM
Quote from: stlawus on April 07, 2022, 08:14:35 PM
Currently covid positive, so I have some time on my hands to post a list of known recruits for next year.  Incomplete list obviously, will be a work in progress.

RPI:

Dylan Matchet 6'2" G, Choate MA

Zisi Blades 6'4" G, St. Thomas More CT


Ithaca:

Gavin Schauder 6'8" F, Spring-Ford PA

Cole Wissink 6'4" G, Chesire CT




SLU:

Chris Downs Jr, 6'6" F, Canton NY

Alexi Twahili, 6'4" G/F, Uganda/New Hampton NH


Hobart:

Niko Lutz 6'7" F/C, Brockton MA


Union:

Kidder Lindley 6'4" G, Pitsford-Mendon NY


No known recruits for Vassar, Skidmore, RIT, Bard and Clarkson.

Names in bold denote new additions to the recruiting table
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on April 27, 2022, 08:52:40 PM
Quote from: stlawus on April 14, 2022, 06:08:01 PM
Quote from: stlawus on April 07, 2022, 08:14:35 PM
Currently covid positive, so I have some time on my hands to post a list of known recruits for next year.  Incomplete list obviously, will be a work in progress.

RPI:

Dylan Matchet 6'2" G, Choate MA

Zisi Blades 6'4" G, St. Thomas More CT


Ithaca:

Gavin Schauder 6'8" F, Spring-Ford PA

Cole Wissink 6'4" G, Chesire CT




SLU:

Chris Downs Jr, 6'6" F, Canton NY

Alexi Twahili, 6'4" G/F, Uganda/New Hampton NH


Hobart:

Niko Lutz 6'7" F/C, Brockton MA


Union:

Kidder Lindley 6'4" G, Pitsford-Mendon NY


RIT:

Joe Harrington 6'6" F, Lancaster NY


No known recruits for Vassar, Skidmore, Bard and Clarkson.

Names in bold denote new additions to the recruiting table
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on April 30, 2022, 11:09:01 PM
Quote from: stlawus on April 27, 2022, 08:52:40 PM
Quote from: stlawus on April 14, 2022, 06:08:01 PM
Quote from: stlawus on April 07, 2022, 08:14:35 PM
Currently covid positive, so I have some time on my hands to post a list of known recruits for next year.  Incomplete list obviously, will be a work in progress.

RPI:

Dylan Matchet 6'2" G, Choate MA

Zisi Blades 6'4" G, St. Thomas More CT


Ithaca:

Gavin Schauder 6'8" F, Spring-Ford PA

Cole Wissink 6'4" G, Chesire CT




SLU:

Chris Downs Jr, 6'6" F, Canton NY

Alexi Twahili, 6'4" G/F, Uganda/New Hampton NH


Hobart:

Niko Lutz 6'7" F/C, Brockton MA


Union:

Kidder Lindley 6'4" G, Pitsford-Mendon NY


RIT:

Joe Harrington 6'6" F, Lancaster NY


Clarkson:

Aydin Kocak 6'5" F, St. Andrew's RI


No known recruits for Vassar, Skidmore, and Bard.

Names in bold denote new additions to the recruiting table
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 09, 2022, 02:18:12 PM
Quote from: stlawus on April 30, 2022, 11:09:01 PM
Quote from: stlawus on April 27, 2022, 08:52:40 PM
Quote from: stlawus on April 14, 2022, 06:08:01 PM
Quote from: stlawus on April 07, 2022, 08:14:35 PM
Currently covid positive, so I have some time on my hands to post a list of known recruits for next year.  Incomplete list obviously, will be a work in progress.

RPI:

Dylan Matchet 6'2" G, Choate MA

Zisi Blades 6'4" G, St. Thomas More CT


Ithaca:

Gavin Schauder 6'8" F, Spring-Ford PA

Cole Wissink 6'4" G, Chesire CT

Laurence Brady 6'4" F, Canterbury CT




SLU:

Chris Downs Jr, 6'6" F, Canton NY

Alexi Twahili, 6'4" G/F, Uganda/New Hampton NH


Hobart:

Niko Lutz 6'7" F/C, Brockton MA


Union:

Kidder Lindley 6'4" G, Pitsford-Mendon NY


RIT:

Joe Harrington 6'6" F, Lancaster NY


Clarkson:

Aydin Kocak 6'5" F, St. Andrew's RI


No known recruits for Vassar, Skidmore, and Bard.

Names in bold denote new additions to the recruiting table
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 14, 2022, 11:28:09 PM
Going through some of the LL team twitter pages, I did some digging to see if some players listed as seniors this year are actually graduating or will be returning for a 5th year.   On RPI's page they honored 4 seniors for senior day and it seems like they are all leaving, and that included Mahoney, Black and Memmelar.   Will definitely be some massive losses for them.  Given Gilbride's coaching pedigree, it is likely they still have a solid team next year but I would not be surprised if they slipped a bit.

As it stands (on paper at least), I think the pre-season top 4 is in no particular order Vassar, Skidmore, SLU and Ithaca.   Again, RPI could definitely be in there ahead of Ithaca.   I include Ithaca because they are up there every year and while losing some significant scoring, they had several first year players make contributions.

Vassar to me is a wild card.  While they are coming off a LL championship and return every single starter, it's impossible to tell if this year was an outlier or if there will be regression since we're not used to seeing that program in the top echelon of the league.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on May 15, 2022, 07:24:19 AM
Nice work stlawus +1
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on May 26, 2022, 11:37:01 AM
Hey stlawus.  RPI recently announced their recruits.  The two you had and three more.


https://rpiathletics.com/news/2022/5/25/five-sign-mens-basketball-celebratory-letters.aspx

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 26, 2022, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: Jersey42 on May 26, 2022, 11:37:01 AM
Hey stlawus.  RPI recently announced their recruits.  The two you had and three more.


https://rpiathletics.com/news/2022/5/25/five-sign-mens-basketball-celebratory-letters.aspx

Thanks for the link.  Several teams have been doing this in the last week, I hope more LL teams do the same.  SLU is slowly posting their full class on IG, I've periodically checked other teams but so far this is it.  I'll post SLU's full class when it's out in the next week or so, but there at least 4 known recruits.  This likely means more roster turnover as there was only 1 player lost to graduation on a 15 player squad.  It's been at least 10 years since Downs went with more than 15 players, and he's made cuts most years (as I imagine most coaches do).  So unfortunately some guys are on the chopping block, especially if there's more than 4 recruits.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 28, 2022, 07:41:39 PM
We're pretty devoid of content these days so I figured I'd post this.  https://www.2adays.com/schools?utf8=%E2%9C%93&sport_id%5B%5D=&conference_id%5B%5D=94&division_id%5B%5D=&commit=Submit

Discovered this site yesterday.  Provides reviews of coaches by players.  It's definitely not the best way to gauge the quality of coaches, but given there's nothing going on I figured it might be interesting to the folks on here as to what some people say about the league's coaches.  I provided a link that filtered in only Liberty League schools, so you can just click on each school and find reviews for the men's basketball coaches or whatever sport you're curious about.   Some coaches have more reviews than others, and some schools don't have reviews for their hoops coaches at all, but it'll kill some time if you're starved for Liberty League basketball content.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 15, 2022, 06:03:55 PM
I came across some archived Usenet NFL message boards over the weekend, all of them from the mid to late 80s.  It was interesting seeing the discussions then as they happened in real time, and it kind of inspired me to go through the early days of this board.  I should have done this before, as the past few hours have been quite entertaining since it's like stepping in a time machine.   The first 2 or 3 years of this board was mainly Hamilton focused and at least half of the discussion featured people fighting over whether or not Tobin Anderson was a good coach.  Here we are more than 15 years later and Anderson is starting his first year in the Division I ranks after a decade of extreme success at St. Thomas Aquinas.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ronk on August 16, 2022, 11:11:45 AM
Quote from: stlawus on August 15, 2022, 06:03:55 PM
I came across some archived Usenet NFL message boards over the weekend, all of them from the mid to late 80s.  It was interesting seeing the discussions then as they happened in real time, and it kind of inspired me to go through the early days of this board.  I should have done this before, as the past few hours have been quite entertaining since it's like stepping in a time machine.   The first 2 or 3 years of this board was mainly Hamilton focused and at least half of the discussion featured people fighting over whether or not Tobin Anderson was a good coach.  Here we are more than 15 years later and Anderson is starting his first year in the Division I ranks after a decade of extreme success at St. Thomas Aquinas.

I did this with the MAC-Freedom board yesterday; yes, entertaining. Goes back to 2006 with some NY schools(St Lawrence) & Scranton contemplating forming a new league - ended up being the Landmark conference(w/o St. Lawrence). Constant pointed chats among 10 or so fans of Scranton, Kings and Wilkes regarding the teams,players,coaches,student bodies, then the changes of what remained in the MAC vs Scranton leaving for the new conference; Pat Coleman's 10000th historic post
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 23, 2022, 05:13:54 AM
Can't confirm yet but it appears Luka Radovich will be returning for another season with Ithaca.  Definitely changes the calculus for the league's upcoming season.  LL shaping up to be pretty strong this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 21, 2022, 12:24:19 PM
Some schedules are out and I've been piecing together the remaining ones.  I noticed that Elmira does not have SLU scheduled this year which I am happy about, and now just discovered that SLU will be playing Williams.  Major non-conference schedule upgrade to say the least.  I'm sure Declan Porter getting a chance to play in his hometown played a small part in that scheduling decision. 

SLU's never had really had super soft schedules, but it seems Downs is tailoring the schedule this year in accordance with the selection committee's criteria last year that rewarded losses to really good teams over inflated win %.   Williams also has RPI and Vassar on their non-con docket, so the presumed top part of the LL are all trying to get in on the SoS action.


As an addendum, it appears that Ithaca is returning a lot more next year than I expected.  Looks like both guards from last year are back for an extra year along with Radovich.  League will be as strong as it's been in quite some time.  Out of Vassar, SLU, Skidmore and Ithaca, there is a combined loss of 2 starters from last year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Stretch4 on October 06, 2022, 06:19:45 PM
RPI Roster question ... I see RPI has its 2022-23 roster posted and I see both Mahoney and Black listed on the roster as Grad Students. I get Black as he was frosh in 18-19 with a Covid year in 20-21, so this would be his fourth year. Can someone please explain how Mahoney has a year of eligibility left.  He has played 4 seasons at RPI ... 17-18, 18-19, 19-20 and 21-22 (Covid year in 20-21). Did he qualify for some type of medical redshirt or some other exemption?  Maybe rules have changed and I am just not up to speed on them, but it seems like his eligibility should be up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 06, 2022, 06:46:41 PM
I'm totally confused how that works and I stopped asking because I was still confused and it hurt my head. In the past, it was 5 years to complete 4 years of playing. They just basically added a year to get 4 years of playing, completely discounting the covid year, whether you played or not. Now it's 6 years to get 4 years of playing (covid would be your "5th" year since it doesn't count). So, I don't know how someone can get a 5th year of playing in (6th with covid).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 06, 2022, 07:10:49 PM
A lot of times the initial rosters include guys from the previous year by default, doesn't mean they are still on the team.  However, the fact that the roster does not include other seniors from last year like Memmelaar does lead me to believe those 2 are back, which once again changes the calculus for the league.  Mahoney would still be coming off a major injury so who knows if he'll be at 100%.    If those guys are back that means between RPI, Skidmore, Vassar, SLU and Ithaca there are a combined 3 starters lost to graduation from last season  :o
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 06, 2022, 08:36:20 PM

Based on the stats listed on his roster bio, Mahoney should not be eligible to play again.  He played four full seasons (sitting out the COVID year).  15 games is too many for a medical redshirt.

Black should have a year remaining.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 06, 2022, 09:00:16 PM
He's not coming back. I asked him.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 06, 2022, 10:16:49 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on October 06, 2022, 09:00:16 PM
He's not coming back. I asked him.

Thanks for the info Greek.  Can you ask Black? lol
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 12, 2022, 11:09:37 PM
Thanks to Ryan Scott for the news on Reese Swedberg grad transferring to WPI.  I was wondering if he would be coming back for a full year this season for Clarkson, would have been a big return for them.   He was starting to find his legs by the end of the season, not easy to come back from a broken leg at that size.  He will be greatly missed by the Golden Knights.  Interesting note that former SLU great Riley Naclerio joined the WPI staff this year as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 26, 2022, 12:29:32 PM
RPI and Ithaca getting some love from voters in the D3hoops.com preseason Top 25:
https://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2022-23/preseason
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on October 27, 2022, 09:10:44 AM
Quote from: stlawus on October 06, 2022, 10:16:49 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on October 06, 2022, 09:00:16 PM
He's not coming back. I asked him.

Thanks for the info Greek.  Can you ask Black? lol

Dom is Back in Black.

https://rpiathletics.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/2022-23
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 27, 2022, 02:37:48 PM
I noticed that a week or so ago, but the roster has been up long enough to officially confirm it.  They'll have a good core returning and will hope Eugster plays as well as he did in Mahoney's absence at the end of the year.  Probably fair to have them ranked in the top 25 to start the year, but I think Memmelaar's departure will have a bigger effect than some might expect. 

Now that we got the rosters (for the most part) I'll do a preview of how I think the league stands going into the season.

Since Ithaca has everyone back I would assume they'll be picked 1 or 2.  They were not very consistent last year, with some bad losses to teams like Clarkson and near misses against teams like RIT.  Their scoring will keep them in most games but they had defensive matchup issues against teams that had athletic forwards.   If you can't get stops against them though they are going to win most games and will wear you down with their speed.

I see Burke is complaining about his first years' defense on twitter already, but Skidmore wasn't really expected to get production from younger players given their senior heavy rotation is back.  We'll find out if their run at the end of last season with a full squad is indicative of that group's play overall going forward.   Skoric is a matchup nightmare for most teams which is exacerbated by Skid's two good shooters in Eichelberger and Kupstas.

I've said it numerous times but Vassar is just a straight up wild card.  They have everyone back and are reigning league tournament champs, but I would not be shocked to see some regression.  They needed a 3/4 court baseball pass catch, turn and shoot off the backboard at the buzzer to beat Hobart to advance to the LL semis last year.  They did get some good wins against the top of the league, but probably should have been swept by SLU and only got a split with RIT.   We'll see if they take another step forward, if any of them read these boards I just gave them some bulletin board material I guess. 

Now for my attempted unbiased assessment of the Scarlet and Brown, I think this squad should at least be top 4 and should be aiming to get a first round bye.  Winning the league outright might be a stretch, but they have a good group returning.  They're probably the biggest team in the league next to Skidmore and have a good mix of seniors and younger players.   SLU lost some ugly games last year at the buzzer to teams like RIT and Bard, and that had a lot to do with the shooters going cold at inopportune times.  They were second only to RPI in opponent FG % so defense was never an issue, their downfall was usually long offensive cold streaks. SLU has a really good freshman in the first year class who I suspect will get a lot of playing time due to his defensive prowess.

Hobart had a really poor start to the season last year but caught fire in the 2nd half to claim the last playoff spot.  They have the reigning LL rookie of the year returning along with one of the league's best in Jackson Meshanic.  They've always been a great rebounding team that shoots well, a lot just depends on their younger players from last year developing more.  I would not be shocked if they ended up in the top 3.

Those 6 teams will likely be battling it out for the top 4 spots again like last year.  RIT has a couple good freshman but they were simply too poor defensively last year, but will definitely have a shot to make the LL tournament.   Union is the one team I don't have a good grasp on yet, but if they don't return Manley, Concannon and Noone they will be in a rebuilding year.   Clarkson and Bard were not great record wise last year but they did get some good wins and were no easy out.  It's unfortunate Clarkson couldn't keep Swedberg for a 5th year (he'll be with WPI) but they still return a nice core. 


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 30, 2022, 09:01:24 PM
UAlbany 71, Skidmore 69
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on October 30, 2022, 09:08:23 PM
Quote from: d3d3d3 on October 30, 2022, 09:01:24 PM
UAlbany 71, Skidmore 69

Yikes for UA. They're not going to be very good this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 30, 2022, 09:38:09 PM
Albany were missing some guys and Skidmore does have a good team, but the expectations for UA probably drastically dropped even lower than they originally were. 

Depending on the matchup Skidmore is a tough given their size.  They have more size than a lot of D1 teams.  Their only issue this season is going to be depth. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: names jaismith on October 31, 2022, 01:27:10 PM
UA drops to 4th in LL preseason poll
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on November 02, 2022, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 27, 2022, 02:37:48 PM
I noticed that a week or so ago, but the roster has been up long enough to officially confirm it.  They'll have a good core returning and will hope Eugster plays as well as he did in Mahoney's absence at the end of the year.  Probably fair to have them ranked in the top 25 to start the year, but I think Memmelaar's departure will have a bigger effect than some might expect. 

Now that we got the rosters (for the most part) I'll do a preview of how I think the league stands going into the season.

Since Ithaca has everyone back I would assume they'll be picked 1 or 2.  They were not very consistent last year, with some bad losses to teams like Clarkson and near misses against teams like RIT.  Their scoring will keep them in most games but they had defensive matchup issues against teams that had athletic forwards.   If you can't get stops against them though they are going to win most games and will wear you down with their speed.

I see Burke is complaining about his first years' defense on twitter already, but Skidmore wasn't really expected to get production from younger players given their senior heavy rotation is back.  We'll find out if their run at the end of last season with a full squad is indicative of that group's play overall going forward.   Skoric is a matchup nightmare for most teams which is exacerbated by Skid's two good shooters in Eichelberger and Kupstas.

I've said it numerous times but Vassar is just a straight up wild card.  They have everyone back and are reigning league tournament champs, but I would not be shocked to see some regression.  They needed a 3/4 court baseball pass catch, turn and shoot off the backboard at the buzzer to beat Hobart to advance to the LL semis last year.  They did get some good wins against the top of the league, but probably should have been swept by SLU and only got a split with RIT.   We'll see if they take another step forward, if any of them read these boards I just gave them some bulletin board material I guess. 

Now for my attempted unbiased assessment of the Scarlet and Brown, I think this squad should at least be top 4 and should be aiming to get a first round bye.  Winning the league outright might be a stretch, but they have a good group returning.  They're probably the biggest team in the league next to Skidmore and have a good mix of seniors and younger players.   SLU lost some ugly games last year at the buzzer to teams like RIT and Bard, and that had a lot to do with the shooters going cold at inopportune times.  They were second only to RPI in opponent FG % so defense was never an issue, their downfall was usually long offensive cold streaks. SLU has a really good freshman in the first year class who I suspect will get a lot of playing time due to his defensive prowess.

Hobart had a really poor start to the season last year but caught fire in the 2nd half to claim the last playoff spot.  They have the reigning LL rookie of the year returning along with one of the league's best in Jackson Meshanic.  They've always been a great rebounding team that shoots well, a lot just depends on their younger players from last year developing more.  I would not be shocked if they ended up in the top 3.

Those 6 teams will likely be battling it out for the top 4 spots again like last year.  RIT has a couple good freshman but they were simply too poor defensively last year, but will definitely have a shot to make the LL tournament.   Union is the one team I don't have a good grasp on yet, but if they don't return Manley, Concannon and Noone they will be in a rebuilding year.   Clarkson and Bard were not great record wise last year but they did get some good wins and were no easy out.  It's unfortunate Clarkson couldn't keep Swedberg for a 5th year (he'll be with WPI) but they still return a nice core.

Union has posted it's '22-'23 Roster (https://unionathletics.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/2022-23) and Manley, Concannon, Noone and Chris Lovisolo (6'9" but more of a outside presence) are all back as 5th years. Leading rebounder Tami George is gone but the Regis brothers are back to lend hustle and experience. The boards could again be an issue for this pesky bunch of sharpshooters as they have no real postman  None of the four first years are over 6'5''. Look for them to surprise some people but also to fall flat when their shots aren't dropping.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 02, 2022, 01:25:48 PM
I noticed that Caporale is not on Union's roster.  He was their only real inside presence last year and would have been a senior this year.  Wonder what happened.  As you mentioned Lovisolo is back but his playing time was inconsistent last season due to his defense.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 08, 2022, 03:07:38 PM
Preseason poll announced https://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2022/11/8/vassar-selected-as-liberty-league-preseason-favorite-in-mens-basketball.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2022, 01:48:26 PM
.500 night to open things up for the league last night.    Ithaca probably disappointed to drop the home opener to Cortland.  Cortland has the best player in the SUNYAC and last night it showed.  Ithaca was down Sinon, but Cortland did well defensively given Ithaca's scoring prowess. 

Clarkson played a very even game with Plattsburgh, not sure how either team will fare this season but a pretty entertaining game nonetheless. 

RIT doesn't look much different from last year in the sense that they have the ability to score.  Adding Fox to the starting lineup looks to boost their rebounding this year.  As always, the thing they have to concentrate on is defense. 

Hobart was surprising last night.  They looked like the Hobart teams of old.  Dominant on the glass, efficient scoring and good PG play.  They put the screws to SJF right from the opening tip.  Fisher brings back their top scorers from last year as well.  Maybe if the Statesmen turn things around this season we'll get Bartman back in here!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 11, 2022, 06:18:14 PM
I just took a peek at Vassar's opener, against Stevens ... and I couldn't help but notice that reigning LL POY Zach Johnson is not playing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 11, 2022, 06:43:15 PM
No Johnson for Vassar and Concannon still not in action for Union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 11, 2022, 09:18:19 PM
Hobart played a great 30 minutes against Oswego but the Lakers' depth wore them down in the end.

Vassar escaped a close one against Stevens sans Zach Johnson.

Ithaca drops another one.  Not much defense from the Bombers so far.

Good start for Bard. 

Skidmore doesn't play great against New Paltz and benefited from bad FT shooting from the Hawks, but NP does have a good team. Skid starts 6'11", 6'7", 6'7", 6'3" and 6'.  Very few teams have that type of size.

Still gotta wait a while for the Saints to start their action.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 12, 2022, 10:36:40 AM
Skidmore coach on Twitter this morning asking for prayers for Greg. I assume he means Skoric. Does anyone know what happened?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 12, 2022, 10:48:00 AM
He went down in the 2nd half but he got back up and seemed like he was walking it off. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention and it was a much worse injury.   The full game is on YouTube, I'll take another look.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 12, 2022, 12:13:08 PM
with 3 minutes left Skoric went up for a ball at half court and had his knee bent at a very concerning angle on the way down.  He walked off the court on his own but went straight to the locker room and didn't return.  Really hope it's not an ACL or anything long term.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ice Bear on November 14, 2022, 07:51:26 PM
Ice Bear says 0-2 Union leads D1 UAlbany 30-29 at half. Ice says it won't last as UAlbany is just too big and strong but certainly a valiant effort from Ice's beloved Garnet thus far.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 15, 2022, 10:28:07 PM
Greg Skoric not on the bench or with the travel party for Skidmore's game against Hartwick tonight, seems indicative of a serious injury which is extremely unfortunate.

Clarkson hung around with Oswego for 30 minutes but ran out of gas.

RPI had close game with SUNY Delhi for most of the game, only pulled away a bit in the last 5 minutes. 

Ithaca did what they usually do and scored a lot of points but they kept letting Keystone back into the game and made it a few possession game until the end.  Ithaca now back on track a bit with a 2 game win streak.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 16, 2022, 10:30:42 PM
Liberty League and SUNYAC continues to beat up on each other with both leagues getting a win tonight.  Hobart had a pretty unlucky night with their point guard having an off shooting night against Brockport.   Seems like every Brockport team of the last 15 years is the exact same in terms of team profile and style of play.

SLU opens up the season with a good win @Plattsburgh.  Plattsburgh is clearly better than last year, but it's hard to tell how they'll end up this season.  Young SLU forwards stepped up tonight with Engelhardt and Adamson in foul trouble for most of the game.   Big test against a good Bears squad Friday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 17, 2022, 09:59:10 AM
There will be another good LL vs. SUNYAC game on Friday at Bard, when Vassar plays New Paltz. It was a four-point win for the Brewers last year - but Zach Johnson's status could determine the outcome of that game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 18, 2022, 09:52:22 PM
Even still without Zach Johnson Vassar had no issue with New Paltz tonight.   

Bard shot the lights out in the 2nd half to blow out MSM.  3PT shooting is going to be the Raptors' strength this season. 

Clarkson goes on a late run to pull away from SUNY Canton. Thought the Roos had that one.

SLU moves to 2-0 with a route 11 victory against Potsdam.  The Macaulay twins' offseason seems to have paid dividends, they are noticeably stronger and are almost impossible to stop going to the rim.

Solid night for the Liberty League.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 19, 2022, 10:51:41 AM

If Skoric is out for Skidmore for any length of time, this could really be Vassar's conference to lose.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 19, 2022, 11:36:56 AM
I heard that Skoric's injury isn't as bad as feared, and that he will likely be back second semester. I also heard that Zach Johnson's issue is a meniscus which comes and goes, and they're trying to manage it and get him to second semester as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 19, 2022, 08:59:52 PM
Not really sure why we're already playing conference games but Skidmore really felt Skoric's absence today as Hobart pounded them pretty good.  Jackson Meshanic already putting together a potential LL POY campaign.   

Vassar wins again to go to 3-1 sans Zach Johnson. 

RIT currently playing very well against SJF at the half, we'll see if it holds.

In the blink of an eye RPI is already 5-0.  Liberty League is going to be facing a huge test in the next 10 days as both RPI and SLU will be playing Williams.   SLU was in control for most of the game against SUNY Canton, was up 30 and pulled the starters while Canton proceeded to press full court the remainder of the game with their starters.   Don't really get that but a W nonetheless.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 22, 2022, 09:46:53 PM
Great win tonight for Hobart against Rochester.  The Statesmen took down UR in soccer this fall and now add basketball to their collection on the year.   Liberty League looking pretty good this year at the top.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 27, 2022, 03:45:09 PM
What a battle for the Saints today against one of the best teams in the country.  Stat sheet will show free throws were costly but the Ephs had SLU winded trying to keep up with them the whole game. One of the best defensive performances I've ever seen from a SLU squad.  This is the most happy I've ever been after a loss.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 02, 2022, 09:46:16 PM
Pretty crazy night in the Liberty League with both Vassar and RPI winning at the buzzer.  Almost an upset in Canton but Downs pulled off one his better coaching jobs in recent years to get the W against a Union team that's much better than their record. This was the first game the Dutchmen have played with their full squad, and all the fifth year players finally saw the floor together. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 03, 2022, 06:07:33 PM
Pretty big let down for SLU to drop a game at home to Skidmore, Skidmore made a lot of clutch three's which ended up being the difference. 3 threes with time expiring on the shot clock, about as clutch as it gets. 

Vassar also disappoints as Hobart gets revenge from yesterday.  RPI right back on track to lead the league as we go into the last week of games before Christmas break.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on December 03, 2022, 08:35:11 PM
Box score says Zach Johnson played 10 minutes for Vassar, all in the first half ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 10, 2022, 09:01:48 PM
Have a few more games before the break, but as it stands it looks like RPI and everyone else.  RPI definitely looks different than last year's team, but it's not really mattering as they are stacking wins.   Right now their win against Western New England is shaping up to be highly useful come February.   

Vassar still seems to be a good team, there has not been much regression given the fact they've been pretty solid without Johnson.  He still looked a bit hampered against Union but I'm sure he'll get back up to speed. 

Hobart has the ability to beat anyone as Jackson Meshanic is player of the year as it stands.  Typical Hobart, punishing rebounding efforts and points in the paint.  Hobart is vulnerable with certain matchups and are a bit top heavy, but they are on a good track right now. 

I'm sure they'll be using this as bulletin board material but Ithaca is probably the most disappointing so far.  They return literally everyone but sit at .500.  Radovich is playing like his normal self, but the Bombers are getting inconsistent play from a large portion of their rotation.  Liam Spellman shot 42% from 3 last year, and so far this season he's shooting 26%.  Former SLU starter Andrew Geschickter is now low in the depth chart getting only 11 minutes per game after starting most of last year.   The good news for the Bombers is they've been playing without Skylar Sinon, so his return to the lineup will definitely give them a boost on both ends of the court.  Seems like he'll be good to go for the start of the 2nd semester, but we'll have to see. 

Skidmore probably will take 4-4 given they've played without Skoric for the last month (who made his return against Middlebury on Friday).  Skidmore has the individual talent to win the league, as Kupstas will score from anywhere on the court (just ask SLU) and they have a ton of size to give them extra possessions off the glass.  They are a team that will not have a lower than 50/50 shot of winning against any Liberty League opponent, so if you have an off night they will punish you. 

The "surprise" of the first half would be Clarkson, but I am not really surprised.   Their record was not good last year but they were competitive against most teams, and this year they are winning those jump ball games.   They played phenomenal defense against SLU, holding the Saints scoreless for a full 8 minute stretch in the 2nd half.  Every time SLU tried to penetrate the Knights completely sealed off any attempt at the basket.  Clarkson's defense will definitely present challenges for the top half of the league. 

SLU is probably a bit disappointed being 5-3 at the break, but they ended the first half on a high note today burying 15 of 30 three point attempts against Geneseo which was a major market correction from the Clarkson game.   There wasn't a whole lot they could do against Skidmore, as Skidmore threw in 3 contested threes as the shot clock expired including one off one foot.  Kupstas was red hot in that game, just one of those times where the other team could not miss.    SLU has shown what their defense can do against a team like Williams, so they will need their offensive effort to be more consistent to take down the likes of RPI, Vassar and Hobart etc.  A big part of the Clarkson loss was too much individualism on the offensive end trying to play hero ball, and today against Geneseo they had 20 assists in a full team effort.   6'10" Andrew Cowan's return to the lineup in the 2nd semester will be a welcome addition.

RIT is definitely happy to be 5-3, but so far no marquee win.  They played RPI pretty close, but like every year their defense will be the difference in making the league playoffs or not. 

Bard played a great game against Ithaca, and I expect to see them upset a few teams in the league like they do most seasons. 

Unfortunately for Ice Bear, the Dutchmen are reeling as they remain winless.   They brought back several 5th year players but are just not getting the defensive effort needed to win games.  Concannon is still noticeably affected by his injury from last year and Manley can't do it by himself on the offensive end every night. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 11, 2022, 09:44:36 AM
Nice work, stlawus +1k
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 14, 2022, 07:34:50 PM
Brutal game for Hobart to lose today against BW.  Was in control for most of the game, only give up a three at the buzzer to force overtime.  Statesmen proceed to lose on another three at the buzzer. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 30, 2022, 11:44:05 PM
Not a great start for the Liberty League after the break.  Skidmore lost a pretty bad game against below .500 Suffolk (although they did beat ONU today). Vassar dropped a contest to W&L (who has a solid team) and squeaked out a win against 2-10 TCNJ.  Seems like Zach Johnson has finally returned to the starting lineup. 

Skidmore lost a pretty bad game to below .500 Suffolk (although they did beat ONU today) in a game that should have been won but the Thoroughbreds acted like they already had the game won and got bit in the end.  Skidmore did play a tight game with top 10 John Carroll today but they also committed some costly late game mistakes to prevent them from getting a marquee win.   

Clarkson finished the weekend with 2 disappointing losses as well after riding high from their 5-3 record heading into the break.

Union loses to 387th Massey ranked Mount Saint Vincent.

Bard loses to 412th Massey ranked Curry.


Monday/Tuesday will be the last chance for the league to get premium non conference wins with Vassar taking on Williams and SLU hosting Oswego at home who are coming off a great win on the road against Utica. 

There were several players in the league who missed most or all of the first semester due to injury so hopefully everyone gets back healthy after the break.  Ithaca has been without starting guard Skylar Sinon and SLU has been without starting center 6'10" Andrew Cowan along with backup point guard Andy Downs.   As previously mentioned Zach Johnson appears to be back in Brewers' starting lineup.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 06, 2023, 09:17:54 PM
Strange night in the Liberty League.  Union was up double digits most of the game against Skidmore and cruised to an easy win.  Skidmore had the size advantage at every single position but the Dutchmen refused to miss shots.  Great win for the Garnet. 

Once again, Clarkson almost pulls it out, this time losing an OT nail biter against Vassar.  The Knights are going to be a tough out for everyone in the league. 

As everyone expected, RIT wins at Hobart.  Massey gave the Tigers a 17% chance to win that one.   As usual, scoring has never been an issue for RIT, it was always their defense that caused their downfall.  Tonight RIT clamped down and kept Meshanic relatively quiet.  RIT winning those types of games could throw a huge wrench in the LL picture. 

The only "normal" game tonight was SLU's win over Bard.  Even then, that was not a typical game.  Bard has always given SLU trouble at Burkman, and for about 30 minutes tonight it was no different.   Credit to Bard's coach, he had a game plan and stuck with it.  Bard applied full court pressure the entire game, never taking a play off.  To SLU's credit they didn't panic and just waited for the Raptors to wear down and then pulled away at the end sparked by a fast break dunk from Trent Adamson. 

Ithaca gets a really good win @RPI.  RPI's lack of depth showed in this one, but the Bombers played equally tough defense and kept feeding the hot hand that was Logan Wendell.  Coming off Sportscenter #1 play against Hamilton, Logan Wendell lights up the Engineers with a 29 point performance. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 07, 2023, 07:32:21 PM
Rough weekend for Clarkson and Hobart.  Seems like Clarkson just didn't have the legs after the OT loss last night to Vassar. 

Great weekend for Ithaca who get a road win against RPI and steal one from Hobart.  Skidmore also was lucky to get out with a win against RIT who are definitely disappointed with a weekend split, a testament to the improvements of that program under Coach McVean.

Solid weekend for SLU as well.  Defensive battle today with Vassar.  Aside from a throw away layup at the buzzer, SLU did not allow a field goal in the last 6 minutes or so.  The zone is getting a big boost from the return of 6'10" Andrew Cowan who bothered the Brewers in the post all game. 

League play is now ramping up, things are going to get pretty interesting if the trends hold.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 13, 2023, 11:20:16 AM
stlawus (Larriesguy)... as a long ago RPI player and Asst Coach... I appreciate your writeups... Keep them coming!!!

Note, when I played 69-71   conference was ICAC (Independent Collegiente Athletic Conference)... 6 teams RPI, Union, St. Lawrence, Clarkson, Hobart, Alfred....  We won the Conference my Soph year, winning at Union in decisive game... after that Tedesco came along, Union probably won it my junior, Senior years
Of Course Skidmore, Bard, Vassar were women's schools back then... RIT, Ithaca joined us later to make an 8 team conference in the 70's
D3 didn't exist until 3 years after I graduated (1974)...we were "college division" when I played
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 13, 2023, 11:36:22 AM
Bard was never a women's college. Vassar began enrolling men in 1969 and Skidmore in 1971.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 13, 2023, 03:26:39 PM
Quote from: hopefan on January 13, 2023, 11:20:16 AM
stlawus (Larriesguy)... as a long ago RPI player and Asst Coach... I appreciate your writeups... Keep them coming!!!

Note, when I played 69-71   conference was ICAC (Independent Collegiente Athletic Conference)... 6 teams RPI, Union, St. Lawrence, Clarkson, Hobart, Alfred....  We won the Conference my Soph year, winning at Union in decisive game... after that Tedesco came along, Union probably won it my junior, Senior years
Of Course Skidmore, Bard, Vassar were women's schools back then... RIT, Ithaca joined us later to make an 8 team conference in the 70's
D3 didn't exist until 3 years after I graduated (1974)...we were "college division" when I played

For a minute I was beginning to think everyone left this board, glad to know someone else keeps tabs on here!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on January 13, 2023, 03:54:11 PM
Quote from: hopefan on January 13, 2023, 11:20:16 AM
stlawus (Larriesguy)... as a long ago RPI player and Asst Coach... I appreciate your writeups... Keep them coming!!!

Note, when I played 69-71   conference was ICAC (Independent Collegiente Athletic Conference)... 6 teams RPI, Union, St. Lawrence, Clarkson, Hobart, Alfred....  We won the Conference my Soph year, winning at Union in decisive game... after that Tedesco came along, Union probably won it my junior, Senior years
Of Course Skidmore, Bard, Vassar were women's schools back then... RIT, Ithaca joined us later to make an 8 team conference in the 70's
D3 didn't exist until 3 years after I graduated (1974)...we were "college division" when I played

Good to hear from you hopefan. We've exchanged pleasantries before. Stlawus is the only current regular contributor to this LL basketball page and I too thank him for that. I read this thread once or twice weekly and contribute infrequently as I'm primarily a football guy never missing a home game and traveling a couple of times a season. I do follow ALL Union sports and usually show up at a hoop or hockey game or two as well as a few baseball and lacrosse games each spring. It's a function of whether I get my old body moving that day. The convenience of streaming has contributed to my laziness. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 14, 2023, 06:45:45 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 13, 2023, 11:36:22 AM
Bard was never a women's college. Vassar began enrolling men in 1969 and Skidmore in 1971.

Good point Caz... my mistake.... Let's just say Bard wasn't on the college basketball NCAA map back then....
Caz, would you be able to research when each of those schools started playing D3hoops, and when they joined the current LL teams in conference?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 14, 2023, 07:26:45 AM
Bard joined the NCAA in 1992 and the Liberty League in 2011-12
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 14, 2023, 10:34:27 AM
Vassar joined NCAA Division III in 1980 and the LL (UCAA at the time) in 2000. Skidmore doesn't have this kind of history info easily accessible on their website, but based on their "championship history" page they have been in the conference since at least the mid-90s.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 14, 2023, 06:07:52 PM
Pretty crazy day in the Liberty League.  Hobart beats Union on a buzzer beater identical to the one that knocked them out of the league playoffs last year against Vassar.  I wonder what the odds are of a league having 2 games in 2 seasons that feature a 3/4 court baseball pass from the baseline, catch turn and shoot bank shot at the buzzer, featuring the same team in both.  I imagine they are low.

Skidmore follows up a great road win against Vassar by losing to Bard.  Really great win for the Raptors, they were in control for pretty much the entire game.  They had a significant size disadvantage and were without who I think is their best player.   It would be great for the league for Bard to continue to improve like they have.

Vassar found a way to get it done against another much improved LL squad in the RIT Tigers.  Zach Johnson is still clearly struggling with his injury but he is still making a difference in the post.

Ithaca is now finding their groove notching their 6th straight win in another dominant offensive performance.  The veteran presence of the Bomber squad is paying off.  They have 4 fifth year graduate students who are putting their experience to good use. 


I could write a very long paragraph describing my elation of SLU beating RPI for the first time since 2018, but I'll keep it short.   After a disastrous 2nd half against Ithaca last night, the Scarlet and Brown follow up with a dominant defensive performance earning them a crucial road victory, against a ranked opponent no less.  Trent Adamson is playing his way into the DPOY conversation with a 5 block effort today.  According to Massey SLU had a 12% chance of winning today.  Never tell me the odds!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 14, 2023, 11:36:03 PM
Any video of the buzzer beater?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 14, 2023, 11:52:42 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on January 14, 2023, 11:36:03 PM
Any video of the buzzer beater?

https://twitter.com/HWSAthletics/status/1614427781219160067?t=06zCkcL9ctwC0gdZCuwmog&s=19
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on January 15, 2023, 12:38:23 PM
That one is ESPN worthy!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on January 15, 2023, 01:23:44 PM
It was No. 9 on ESPN's Top 10 Plays this morning ... but they referred to the player as "Meshanic Jackson," lol
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 16, 2023, 08:22:30 PM
As it looks like IC's coach is starting to settle in, I'm reminded of Sean Burton's brief tenure as head coach.  He never got a chance to coach a game and I think most Bomber fans would agree he's on the Mount Rushmore of Ithaca basketball.   A big "what if".
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 17, 2023, 11:57:13 PM
Another great performance by Bard tonight despite the end result.  As I mentioned before the league will greatly benefit from a competitive Raptor squad. They also have a lot of players returning next year so they might be building something here.

Becoming very apparent that Mason Memmelaar was RPI's anchor over the past few seasons.   In my opinion their offensive woes are directly attributed to his graduation.  Aside from being a great scorer and rebounder he was an excellent passer.  RPI still has a great team and of course should not be underestimated.  Even with an inconsistent offense their suffocating pack line defense is going to give them a chance to win pretty much every game. 

We'll probably start to get a good sense of how the league will sort out after this weekend's slate of games.   RPI will be at Vassar and Skidmore, and Skidmore will have a chance to showcase their flashy offense against the league's top offense in Ithaca.   SLU will have a tough road test @ RIT and Hobart. 

Interesting dynamics are currently at play.  Half the league is very strong offensively and then there are teams like SLU and RPI who are in the top 5% nationally when it comes to defensive statistics.   The ole unstoppable force meets and unmovable object adage.    Ithaca is probably the most consistent offense, but similar to Skidmore I wonder about the sustainability of their shot selection.  It worked out for them in 2020 when Riley Thompson was bombing 35 foot threes all the way to the 2nd round of the NCAA tourney.  They're still shooting at a high clip right now, but several games I've noticed that they're making step backs, fade aways and desperation heaves with the shot clock expiring.  So far they've made most of them, but it's something to keep an eye on as the season progresses.   All of this applies to Skidmore as well, and we're already seeing them get bit with losses to Union and Bard. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 20, 2023, 09:43:00 PM
I know the midwest leagues and NESCAC/UAA get all of the attention in d3hoops, but man the Liberty League is insane this year.  Another great night of hoops.  Vassar and RPI battle to 2 overtimes with Vassar prevailing.  Skidmore point guard gets fouled 30 feet from the basket with 0.1 seconds left down 2 and proceeds to make all 3 free throws to knock off league leader Ithaca.   SLU and RIT featured 10 lead changes and 15 ties with the Scarlet and Brown prevailing with clutch 3 point shooting down the stretch.   Clarkson stormed back against Hobart after being down 15 and almost nicked the Statesmen in a very entertaining offensive game.   Even Bard got in on the action with a big come back win against Union.   

Best part is we get to do it again tomorrow!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 21, 2023, 06:19:13 PM
I wish the LL schools were more active in posting box scores and game stories so we could have these details to work with. We have been pushing harder with the LL and E8 and MAC this year to get more content and we have been getting some, but not RPI-Vassar, not SLU-RIT ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 21, 2023, 06:28:16 PM
Nice 4 win home streak for Hobart.  Good win for them today against SLU.  SLU is offensively challenged but Hobart played really good defense. SLU is still a year away from putting it all together. So goes Jackson Meshanic, so goes Hobart.  Don't even think Rupkus was as dominant a player as Meshanic is.  He's a machine in the paint.  Hobart needs to take advantage of his last slate of games here, he'll leave a big hole in that program for a while much like Rupkus did at Skidmore. 

No surprises today after a wild Friday.  RPI and Ithaca both get much needed bounce back wins.  Bard hung around with Vassar in the first half who were without Zach Johnson again, but Vassar continues to take care of home court. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on January 27, 2023, 09:25:24 PM
It happened...Just as most thought it inevitable, the struggling Union Dutchmen seniors got their feel good win of the year tonight with a 68-57 upset of arch rival RPI. It's been a tough season for the Dutchmen but tonight they put all the pieces together. Nice to see. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 27, 2023, 11:29:49 PM
Union the only home team to win tonight, and the least likely to do so. Ain't that some sh**.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 28, 2023, 08:47:40 AM
Looks like the Statesmen are putting it all together at the right time with a great road win over the Bombers last night and a 5 game win streak. I've been following Hobart Hockey mostly( #2 in D3 at 18-2) this season and kept an eye on basketball since Jackson Meshanic and his brothers are fun to watch. Now I've got to concentrate on both. Coach Thompson "13 (Captain of the LL Champs in 2013)  has really matured and hopefully will keep the winning streak going into the playoffs. The LL BB Playoffs are always a great competition, but the Statesmen have come up short the last few years. I'm hoping Jackson's Senior year will be a special year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 29, 2023, 03:52:38 PM
Can't remember a year like the one we're having up to this point.  The top 6 teams all have a shot at winning the regular season just over halfway through.  Major standings implications Tuesday night when SLU and Clarkson face off for the only midweek matchup.  SLU is hoping to get to 8-4 after sweeping @Bard/Vassar for the first time in 6 years, and Clarkson is hoping to rattle off wins to get to the last playoff spot.  Clarkson played a phenomenal defensive game against the Saints in December, very much looking forward to this matchup in 2 days. 

The drawback to the league being so competitive is that it's pretty much cannibalized itself.  Don't really see any pool C scenarios right now.  Ithaca would probably be the only regionally ranked team if the rankings were released today, and they would likely be #7.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 30, 2023, 03:09:28 PM
Quote from: stlawus on January 29, 2023, 03:52:38 PM
Can't remember a year like the one we're having up to this point.  The top 6 teams all have a shot at winning the regular season just over halfway through.  Major standings implications Tuesday night when SLU and Clarkson face off for the only midweek matchup.  SLU is hoping to get to 8-4 after sweeping @Bard/Vassar for the first time in 6 years, and Clarkson is hoping to rattle off wins to get to the last playoff spot.  Clarkson played a phenomenal defensive game against the Saints in December, very much looking forward to this matchup in 2 days. 

The drawback to the league being so competitive is that it's pretty much cannibalized itself.  Don't really see any pool C scenarios right now.  Ithaca would probably be the only regionally ranked team if the rankings were released today, and they would likely be #7.
Agree with your analysis totally . Pretty much a cannibal scene all the way through the LL Tournament. Any one of the top 6 teams could get hot in the tournament and make it into the NCAAs. No Pool C this year. It will be fun for one team and agonizing for the other 5.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 30, 2023, 10:30:36 PM
I think the league dynamics are a reflection of the experience on each of the top 6 teams.  Ithaca starts 4 seniors which include 3 5th years and a 4th as a first option off the bench  Hobart starts 3 seniors which includes a 5th year player in Jackson Meshanic.  A fully healthy Vassar starts 5 seniors, they are currently starting 4 seniors and a junior.  Skidmore starts 4 seniors which includes a 5th year in Skoric.  RPI starts 4 seniors and a junior which includes 5th year Dom Black.  SLU is the youngest of the group, normally starting 2 sophomores, 2 seniors (no 5th years) and a back and forth starting option between a senior and 2 other sophomores.  It's no surprise that all these teams at the top have the records they do with the experience they have. 

I have been wrong many times before, but I think next year there will be a "reset" of sorts across the country.  What I just described applies to most, if not all of the top teams this season.  That's not unique to this season, but with the vast majority of impact covid year players getting cycled out after this season I get the feeling d3 hoops will be a different landscape next year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on January 31, 2023, 10:19:15 AM
Quote from: stlawus on January 30, 2023, 10:30:36 PM
I think the league dynamics are a reflection of the experience on each of the top 6 teams.  Ithaca starts 4 seniors which include 3 5th years and a 4th as a first option off the bench  Hobart starts 3 seniors which includes a 5th year player in Jackson Meshanic.  A fully healthy Vassar starts 5 seniors, they are currently starting 4 seniors and a junior.  Skidmore starts 4 seniors which includes a 5th year in Skoric.  RPI starts 4 seniors and a junior which includes 5th year Dom Black.  SLU is the youngest of the group, normally starting 2 sophomores, 2 seniors (no 5th years) and a back and forth starting option between a senior and 2 other sophomores.  It's no surprise that all these teams at the top have the records they do with the experience they have. 

I have been wrong many times before, but I think next year there will be a "reset" of sorts across the country.  What I just described applies to most, if not all of the top teams this season.  That's not unique to this season, but with the vast majority of impact covid year players getting cycled out after this season I get the feeling d3 hoops will be a different landscape next year.
+k for analysis. Lots of 5th and even 6th years on teams that will fade next year. Just glad to see the athletes competing since the shutdowns were devastating for so many of them. This season will be a gem as far as pure competition with such parity.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2023, 12:54:11 PM
Quote from: Bartman on January 31, 2023, 10:19:15 AM
Quote from: stlawus on January 30, 2023, 10:30:36 PM
I think the league dynamics are a reflection of the experience on each of the top 6 teams.  Ithaca starts 4 seniors which include 3 5th years and a 4th as a first option off the bench  Hobart starts 3 seniors which includes a 5th year player in Jackson Meshanic.  A fully healthy Vassar starts 5 seniors, they are currently starting 4 seniors and a junior.  Skidmore starts 4 seniors which includes a 5th year in Skoric.  RPI starts 4 seniors and a junior which includes 5th year Dom Black.  SLU is the youngest of the group, normally starting 2 sophomores, 2 seniors (no 5th years) and a back and forth starting option between a senior and 2 other sophomores.  It's no surprise that all these teams at the top have the records they do with the experience they have. 

I have been wrong many times before, but I think next year there will be a "reset" of sorts across the country.  What I just described applies to most, if not all of the top teams this season.  That's not unique to this season, but with the vast majority of impact covid year players getting cycled out after this season I get the feeling d3 hoops will be a different landscape next year.
+k for analysis. Lots of 5th and even 6th years on teams that will fade next year. Just glad to see the athletes competing since the shutdowns were devastating for so many of them. This season will be a gem as far as pure competition with such parity.

There are still two classes of students who get an extra year of eligibility due to COVID and who've had two years to plan for it.  I don't think we'll see the tailing off of 5th year students just yet.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on January 31, 2023, 01:43:05 PM
I didn't say we'd see the end of 5th years, I said that I think we'll see most of the impact Covid year players cycle out.  ::)  These are players I previously referred to like Jackson Meshanic who were impact players before covid hit.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 03, 2023, 09:45:18 PM
Statement game for RPI tonight taking down Skidmore.  Skidmore had a long run to open the 2nd half but the Engineers got it together and won rather comfortably.   They may be "down" but they are still a Mark Gilbride coached team with some great players. 

While the odds are against them, it's great to see Clarkson not give up on the season and play with great effort here in this last stretch.  They're 3 games out but have an outside shot to make a run at the end to get the last spot.

More props to Union tonight for giving Ithaca everything they could handle.   The percentages at halftime indicated Ithaca would start making shots and they did.  Similar to Clarkson it's also great to see Union not give up despite a less than stellar record.  They had a really good chance to win that one. 

Vassar is "quietly" handling business to go up to 2nd place without their best player. 

Very proud of the SLU squad tonight winning a tough one against a red hot Hobart in OT.  Similar to Clarkson earlier in the week the Saints went on a 7 minute cold stretch in the middle of the 2nd half.  They got a huge defensive boost from 6'10" Andrew Cowan and kept LL player of the year front runner Jackson Meshanic completely scoreless for the remainder of regulation.  Meshanic would only get one FT in OT.  Definitely one of Downs's better coaching jobs in recent memory.

Standings didn't get any clearer tonight, every game is critical. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 03, 2023, 11:33:41 PM
4-way tie for 3rd after tonight and they're all 3 games clear of Clarkson on the outside looking in with 5 games to go. I won't even begin looking at tiebreakers until after the RIT at Ithaca game Tuesday night - when the whole league will have exactly 4 games remaining.

Ultimately I'm fairly certain we have our six LL tournament teams already, it's just a question of seeding. Union was mathematically eliminated tonight and Bard now needs to run the table over its last 5 and also get quite a bit of outside help.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: hopefan on February 04, 2023, 10:20:16 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 03, 2023, 11:33:41 PM
4-way tie for 3rd after tonight and they're all 3 games clear of Clarkson on the outside looking in with 5 games to go. I won't even begin looking at tiebreakers until after the RIT at Ithaca game Tuesday night - when the whole league will have exactly 4 games remaining.

Ultimately I'm fairly certain we have our six LL tournament teams already, it's just a question of seeding. Union was mathematically eliminated tonight and Bard now needs to run the table over its last 5 and also get quite a bit of outside help.

Thank goodness it's a 6 team conference tourney.. if it were only 4, devastating for 2 left out....  will be fun to follow next 2 weeks
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 04, 2023, 11:02:15 PM
Clarkson now only 2 games back after beating Hobart in OT.  Hobart had won 6 straight coming into this weekend but the NoCo road trip got to them. 

I've given up trying to figure out Skidmore.  Also a bad road trip for them, but they still loom in a playoff spot with potential to beat anyone.

RPI built off of last night's performance to vault back up to a tie for 2nd place.  If the Engineers start to score like they have recently they are going to be very hard to beat.

Excellent weekend for SLU.  Thought they would have a down game after a very physical OT game the night before but they put on their best performance of the season. 52-18 at halftime which allowed the 2nd and 3rd units to get some valuable experience.   Big congratulations to Trent Adamson who reached the 1000 point milestone today.  He'd easily be in the top 10 in scoring for the program if not for the covid year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 07, 2023, 09:22:58 AM
Quote from: stlawus on February 04, 2023, 11:02:15 PM
Clarkson now only 2 games back after beating Hobart in OT.  Hobart had won 6 straight coming into this weekend but the NoCo road trip got to them. 

I've given up trying to figure out Skidmore.  Also a bad road trip for them, but they still loom in a playoff spot with potential to beat anyone.

RPI built off of last night's performance to vault back up to a tie for 2nd place.  If the Engineers start to score like they have recently they are going to be very hard to beat.

Excellent weekend for SLU.  Thought they would have a down game after a very physical OT game the night before but they put on their best performance of the season. 52-18 at halftime which allowed the 2nd and 3rd units to get some valuable experience.   Big congratulations to Trent Adamson who reached the 1000 point milestone today.  He'd easily be in the top 10 in scoring for the program if not for the covid year.
Congrats to SLU for the overtime win over Hobart. TOs was the key...18 for Hobart and 8 for SLU, both lead the league at the bottom and the top for this stat. Jackson M had 8 turnovers as SLU defenders swarmed all over him, as he looked a bit lethargic either because of health or the relentless SLU defense. Hobart loses to Clarkson the next night with the same turnover/OT loss outcome. Hobart has no chance in the tournament unless they solve the TO problem. When they play tough like they did on the road in Ithaca and hold on to the ball, their skills carry the day ,otherwise it will be a short tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 07, 2023, 03:27:22 PM
In fairness to Meshanic he was the only reason Hobart had a chance to win against SLU.  Made several tough shots and kept them active under the rim.  Patrick Walker didn't play in that game for some reason which also has an effect. Walker did play in the Clarkson game though but that loss can also be attributed to fatigue.  The rebounding prowess of the Statesmen will give them a good shot against anyone. They might have stumbled a bit last weekend but that's often a difficult road trip. I expect them to make it to the LL semifinals.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 07, 2023, 03:52:54 PM
Good point about Walker, but the turnovers are still maddening. If our HC could suit up for the rest of the season at point guard , we'd sail through the rest of the LL schedule. I'm sure he could still drive and dish and Jackson would be well fed. Oh well, we lost a few to graduate school and transfer that would have strengthened this year's squad. Dan Cook is the leading scorer for St. John Fisher and Dan Massino is getting his MBA at Rochester and a solid starter for the Yellowjackets. I still love to look at Massino's winning basket against Springfield in the last NCAA Tournament game before the world was shutdown.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 07, 2023, 04:36:38 PM
Looks like RPI's solid weekend performance earned them a spot in the regional rankings over Brockport. Assumed Ithaca would be in and they are.   This is all academic, however, as there won't be a pool C from the league barring extreme circumstances at play over the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on February 09, 2023, 04:25:51 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 07, 2023, 04:36:38 PM
Looks like RPI's solid weekend performance earned them a spot in the regional rankings over Brockport. Assumed Ithaca would be in and they are.   This is all academic, however, as there won't be a pool C from the league barring extreme circumstances at play over the next few weeks.

OK but...Could the NCAA be searching for a way to keep a LL team relevant for a Pool C? Your comment about RPI superseding Brockport for a spot on the initial Regional Rankings sparked me to check just how the rest of Region 3 shakes out; notably the SUNYAC. Curiously Cortland is RR'ed while Brockport is not, even though the Golden Eagles spanked Cortland in their most recent matchup by 24 and also hold the only SUNYAC win over Oswego St. It seems Brockport is getting no respect while RPI is still riding the wave of their 2022 finish? While I would love to see the LL get a Pool C, ranking of all D3 teams is highly subjective. Regional ranking are sure to change in the coming weeks as always but I'll be watching this closely. Thanks stlawus.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 09, 2023, 05:06:32 PM
Brockport has a sub .500 SOS and Cortland's is about 40 points higher.   While the rankings are alphabetical I would bet RPI is the last ranked team in the region which is still far away from a pool C spot.  RPI is likely in due to SOS as well, and while it isn't that high it's still above .500.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on February 09, 2023, 06:36:21 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 09, 2023, 05:06:32 PM
Brockport has a sub .500 SOS and Cortland's is about 40 points higher.   While the rankings are alphabetical I would bet RPI is the last ranked team in the region which is still far away from a pool C spot.  RPI is likely in due to SOS as well, and while it isn't that high it's still above .500.

Ah the old SOS ::)...Strength of Schedule is my least favorite way to compare teams. Interestingly the SOS link on D3hoops.com (though unofficial and anothers opinion) shows Brockport(5th) ranked ahead of Cortland(6th) and RPI (9th) I find this more accurate...http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/p/division-iii-mens-regional-rankings.html ... Overall I hate that the NCAA committees often give more weight to statistics than the "eye test" or sometimes even head to head. Fortunately conferences have tournaments that usually sort things out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 09, 2023, 07:00:07 PM
No arguments from me.  I've long criticized the over reliance of SOS across all sports.  It's contradictory to the philosophy of division III.  They say they want to encourage in-region competition but at the same time say that you need a strong schedule which means teams with more money and resources are at an advantage since they can more easily schedule games against strong teams in different regions.  So which is it?   "But we need criteria to select at large bids!"  No one said there shouldn't be criteria, but be honest about the division III philosophy if you're going to use division I models.  Can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 10, 2023, 09:02:14 AM
Quote from: UfanBill on February 09, 2023, 06:36:21 PM
Ah the old SOS ::)...Strength of Schedule is my least favorite way to compare teams.

And if you dig deeply into the strength of schedule metric, you find that there is a lot of randomness built in. 

Coaches and AD's can control who they schedule - subject to budgets, geography, and a little thing called academics (schools want to play schools deemed to be of "similar" academic quality, hence the UAA/NESCAC challenge). 

The coaches can't control how their opponents perform during the season, and they can't control how their opponents "opponents" perform during the season.  So basically SOS puts 75% of the weight on how your opponents and your opponents "opponents" did and only 25% on how well you played against your schedule.

In the case of Rochester and Oswego, they have non-conference SOS's [according to Snyder] Oswego - .707, Rochester - .612.  Against common opponents, Oswego is 3-1 (played Geneseo 2x), Rochester is 2-1.  Oswego's average margin in their 4 games is 18 points, Rochester's is +7 against the same teams.  Problem - sample size is small. 

One solution is for Rochester to invite Oswego to play in their tournament, This year their SUNY sacrificial lamb was Fredonia who is 2-19. 

The other interesting factoid in all of this is that Oswego's coach, Jason Leone, is a Rochester grad.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 10, 2023, 09:23:03 AM
plus there's the fact that UofR only plays 14 league games so they have 11 OOC games to craft a good schedule. E8/LL/SUNYAC have 18 league games (the other region 3 conference, the Skyline, plays 16 conference games, but most of those teams stink anyway, and the halfway decent squads use up their OOC dates on local CUNYAC/CSAC teams in significant part).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 10, 2023, 10:44:50 AM
While it is exciting to get an NCAA berth, I think the Liberty League has some nice parity among the member teams resulting in some great competition. Realistically our basketball teams will likely meet the "next level" in D3 and , like our football teams, will ultimately hit the superior competition wall after , hopefully, a couple of tournament wins. For me, it's all about winning the Liberty League tournament in basketball or the regular season in football. Anything beyond that, like Hobart basketball's little run before the pandemic in 2020 , or Ithaca's run in football last year, is icing on the cake.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on February 10, 2023, 06:05:11 PM
Speaking of Rochester and their dual league status...How is it they get to pick and choose which sport they're going to play in which league? They are charter members of the Liberty League where they play major sports football, baseball and track but not soccer, lacrosse or basketball. That's on the men's side. In women's sports their lacrosse teams does play in the LL along with softball, field hockey and women's track and field. Always seemed odd

Then there's this...
The NCAA recently revamped their Region designations to more clearly reflect geographical and league affiliations. (I think) ::) BUT...the league Rochester plays in for basketball, the UAA, has teams in multiple regions. Doesn't the NCAA use Regional Rankings, specifically the top 8 in each region, to draw from for Pool C selection? In looking at the basketball members of the UAA incredibly all eight of the UAA teams rank in the top 8 of their respective regions according to this week's Regional Rankings linked to D3hoops.com...http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/p/division-iii-mens-regional-rankings.html ...Brandeis is #6 in Region 2. Rochester #1 in Region 3. NYU #4 in 4. Emory #4 in 6. Case Western and Carnegie Mellon #3,4 in 7 and Washington U and Chicago #1 and #8 in Region 8! Does this mean if all these rankings hold up the UAA will have multiple teams under Pool C consideration in 6 different regions? Do I have something wrong? Now I know that the UAA has an AQ and that it's likely to only have one Pool C but just getting "on the board" on tournament selection day is a significant achievement right? No wonder Rochester is content playing basketball in the UAA not the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 10, 2023, 10:48:03 PM
Buzzer beater for Skidmore tonight results in 4 teams at 9-6 going into tomorrow's slate of games.  RIT got thrashed in 5 straight games and then win easily against Vassar.   Excellent win for SLU tonight, if they made their free throws they would have won easily.   Learned that Trey Syroka isn't actually a senior as I thought he was after transferring with Engelhardt from Niagara last season.  Certainly changes the calculus for things in the league next year with SLU bringing back every starting guard, but as for now let's all just enjoy the ride.  Next 3 games for the top 6 can create a ton of playoff scenarios.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 11, 2023, 04:17:20 PM
Looks like SLU has taken over from Hobart as the "hot" LL team since their OT win over the Statesmen. Whichever team has the hot hand in the LL tournament should take it. Home court will be an advantage , but not necessarily with this group.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 11, 2023, 06:07:05 PM
St. Lawrence beats Ithaca in OT. That's enough outta you Saints, please chill out before the playoffs, thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 11, 2023, 06:26:15 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 11, 2023, 06:07:05 PM
St. Lawrence beats Ithaca in OT. That's enough outta you Saints, please chill out before the playoffs, thanks in advance.
SLU is a streak breaker these days. And they seem to like OT. Ithaca needs to be careful with Vassar next weekend, but the Bombers are looking good despite the loss to SLU tonight. However the loss tonight probably hurt the LL chances to get a second team in, assuming someone other than IC wins the tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 11, 2023, 07:00:01 PM
Playoff atmosphere at Burkman today.  Seniors rose to the occasion on senior day.  Miles Davis averages like 2 points a game and hit clutch shot after clutch shot in the 2nd half, and had the game clinching rebound in overtime. Big time 3 from Will Engelhardt at the end of OT to win the game as well.  Best game I've seen at Burkman in years given the stakes.    Ithaca's coach also complains about literally every single call.  That gets old really fast.

Watch out for Skidmore.  They've won 2 crucial games in a row and get 2 more games at home.  SLU has to travel to Saratoga next week, I can easily see the Thoroughbreds being the next team to get hot. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 11, 2023, 09:56:52 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 11, 2023, 07:00:01 PM
Playoff atmosphere at Burkman today.  Seniors rose to the occasion on senior day.  Miles Davis averages like 2 points a game and hit clutch shot after clutch shot in the 2nd half, and had the game clinching rebound in overtime. Big time 3 from Will Engelhardt at the end of OT to win the game as well.  Best game I've seen at Burkman in years given the stakes.    Ithaca's coach also complains about literally every single call.  That gets old really fast.

Watch out for Skidmore.  They've won 2 crucial games in a row and get 2 more games at home.  SLU has to travel to Saratoga next week, I can easily see the Thoroughbreds being the next team to get hot.
Agree ......Methinks he doth protest too much ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on February 12, 2023, 12:01:59 PM
Does anyone know the tiebreaker rules for seeding the LL tournament? The six teams have been determined, but there are lots of potential ties with conference records.
Here is where I think things stand going into the final weekend:

(https://i.postimg.cc/sfByXb8Y/LL-Basketball-Records.jpg)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 12, 2023, 02:20:02 PM
I believe the tie breakers after head-to-head is record against common opponents above you in the standings, followed by h2h against common opponents below you.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 13, 2023, 01:00:01 AM
Recruiting is also starting to pick up.  Looks like the Liberty League is loading up on central NY talent. 

RIT just got a commitment from Lowville's Brody Brown.

Hobart secured a commitment from Alex Moesch out of Chittenango.

Ithaca picked up one of the top point guards in the region, Jaylon O'Neil, from Central Valley Academy. Yoav Regev from Worcester Academy will also be heading to Ithaca. Originally from Tenafly so the Bombers continue to mine their New Jersey pipeline.

SLU just landed one of the best shooters in the region, Brayden Shepardson, from West Canada Valley. SLU also got a commitment from Colton Suriano, 6'4" F from New Hartford. Would be nice to get his teammate Zach Philipkoski as well but that's probably a long shot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 17, 2023, 09:41:29 PM
With a win tomorrow Ithaca clinches the regular season title and home court throughout the playoffs.

For a minute it looked like SLU was going to go from 2nd to 5th but the finest performance of Trey Syroka's career and the best coaching job by Downs this season gives them a crucial road victory at Skidmore.  That performance should have sealed defensive player of the year honors for Syroka.  He's now at 67 steals for the season, and as far as I can deduce the record for steals in a season for the Liberty League is Tom Horvat's 74, followed by 70 from Peter Ezema.  67 steals is now the program record, as Syroka's 66th steal broke Josh Sharlow's record of 65.

As it stands SLU has the tie breaker against RPI and so I believe SLU can finish no lower than 3rd.  Hobart split with SLU and I don't know their tie breaker off the top of my head so I suppose Hobart can theoretically finish 2nd after tomorrow. 

Vassar is really reeling from the loss of Zach Johnson to injury.  But the Brewers have the senior leadership to steal a win tomorrow and/or make a run through the league tournament. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on February 18, 2023, 11:54:32 AM
Here are the standings with season series records after last night.

(https://i.postimg.cc/P5ZRwBv0/LL-Basketball-Records-217.jpg)

This will all be moot after 6:00 pm today, but I have taken a shot at how the standings will shake out based on this afternoon's games. I assume if two teams are tied and one swept the season series, that breaks the tie.  I still cannot figure out what happens if the tied teams split the season series.  Thanks stlawus for your insights, but I believe in any of these situations both teams will have the same record against common opponents above and below them in the standings.
There was a lot of parity in the league this season.  While the host team will be the favorite in the league tournament, I think any of the top five can win it.  Vassar without Johnson is a longshot at best.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 18, 2023, 12:14:37 PM
Quote from: Jersey42 on February 18, 2023, 11:54:32 AM
Here are the standings with season series records after last night.

(https://i.postimg.cc/P5ZRwBv0/LL-Basketball-Records-217.jpg)

This will all be moot after 6:00 pm today, but I have taken a shot at how the standings will shake out based on this afternoon's games. I assume if two teams are tied and one swept the season series, that breaks the tie.  I still cannot figure out what happens if the tied teams split the season series.  Thanks stlawus for your insights, but I believe in any of these situations both teams will have the same record against common opponents above and below them in the standings.

       
  • ITH - ITH loses and SLU wins - T1 with SLU.  Otherwise 1.
  • SLU - SLU wins and ITH loses - T1 with ITH.   SLU loses and HOB wins - T2 with HOB.  Otherwise 2.
  • RPI - RPI wins - 3. RPI loses - 4.
  • HOB - HOB wins and SLU loses - T2 with SLU.  HOB wins and SLU wins - 3. HOB loses and SKD loses - 4.  HOB loses and SKD wins - T4 with SKD.
  • SKD - SKD wins and HOB loses - T4 with HOB.  Otherwise 5.
  • VAS - 6
There was a lot of parity in the league this season.  While the host team will be the favorite in the league tournament, I think any of the top five can win it.  Vassar without Johnson is a longshot at best.

table should say Vassar is 0-2 vs Hobart.

Ithaca and St. Lawrence have clinched byes; IC is the 1 with a win or SLU loss. Saints need a win and Vassar to beat IC.

Hobart at RPI winner gets the 3 seed. RPI would be the 4 with a loss; if Hobart loses they probably need Skidmore to also lose in order to be the 4 seed and host the Thoroughbreds on Tuesday. If Hobart loses and Skidmore wins, that tiebreaker would go all the way down to at least RIT and Union. Expectation is RIT finishes 1 up on Union as they play Bard while Union finishes with St. Lawrence...but stranger things have happened. Vassar is 6 no matter what and taking a bus ride to either Troy or Geneva (winner of HOB@RPI).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on February 18, 2023, 12:47:28 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 18, 2023, 12:14:37 PM

table should say Vassar is 0-2 vs Hobart.

Ithaca and St. Lawrence have clinched byes; IC is the 1 with a win or SLU loss. Saints need a win and Vassar to beat IC.

Hobart at RPI winner gets the 3 seed. RPI would be the 4 with a loss; if Hobart loses they probably need Skidmore to also lose in order to be the 4 seed and host the Thoroughbreds on Tuesday. If Hobart loses and Skidmore wins, that tiebreaker would go all the way down to at least RIT and Union. Expectation is RIT finishes 1 up on Union as they play Bard while Union finishes with St. Lawrence...but stranger things have happened. Vassar is 6 no matter what and taking a bus ride to either Troy or Geneva (winner of HOB@RPI).

You are right, I missed Vassar 0-2 vs Hobart  :(

Help me more with the tiebreaker rules (unless there is a link somewhere).

For example, if HOB and SLU end up tied at 12-6 and they split the season series, what gives SLU the tiebreaker? They were both 1-1 against ITH.  Do you look at their records against the next team in the standings and see if there is a difference?  If not, do you keep going down the standings looking for the first difference?  If this is the way it works, SLU at 2-0 over RPI is ahead of HOB at 1-1 over RPI. If not, how does it work?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on February 18, 2023, 02:54:54 PM
Quote from: Jersey42 on February 18, 2023, 12:47:28 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on February 18, 2023, 12:14:37 PM

table should say Vassar is 0-2 vs Hobart.

Ithaca and St. Lawrence have clinched byes; IC is the 1 with a win or SLU loss. Saints need a win and Vassar to beat IC.

Hobart at RPI winner gets the 3 seed. RPI would be the 4 with a loss; if Hobart loses they probably need Skidmore to also lose in order to be the 4 seed and host the Thoroughbreds on Tuesday. If Hobart loses and Skidmore wins, that tiebreaker would go all the way down to at least RIT and Union. Expectation is RIT finishes 1 up on Union as they play Bard while Union finishes with St. Lawrence...but stranger things have happened. Vassar is 6 no matter what and taking a bus ride to either Troy or Geneva (winner of HOB@RPI).

You are right, I missed Vassar 0-2 vs Hobart  :(

Help me more with the tiebreaker rules (unless there is a link somewhere).

For example, if HOB and SLU end up tied at 12-6 and they split the season series, what gives SLU the tiebreaker? They were both 1-1 against ITH.  Do you look at their records against the next team in the standings and see if there is a difference?  If not, do you keep going down the standings looking for the first difference?  If this is the way it works, SLU at 2-0 over RPI is ahead of HOB at 1-1 over RPI. If not, how does it work?

You are correct. The SLU sweep of RPI is the deciding factor, if 2 teams are tied and split, compare results from the top down.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 18, 2023, 06:01:26 PM
With RPI winning the tie breaker over Skidmore we end up with:

1. Ithaca
2. SLU
3. Hobart
4. RPI
5. Skidmore
6. Vassar

Hobart will be highly motivated against Vassar given what happened last year, this year the Statesmen get the game at home. 

Ithaca handled Vassar with relative ease to clinch the regular season.  Four 5th year players and several seniors certainly benefited the Bombers this season.  They are extremely tough at home and now get all remaining playoff games at Ben Light. 

SLU finishes the regular season winning 6 straight.  5 of these games the Scarlet and Brown were Massey underdogs.  One of Downs' best coached seasons that I can remember.  Union seniors put up a great performance in their last games wearing the garnet.  I just kept waiting for their outside shooting percentages to go down but they hit shot after shot. 

RPI and Skidmore should be a good one, they match up pretty well and RPI will also be looking for some revenge after last year's playoff performance against the Thoroughbreds. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 18, 2023, 06:25:00 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 18, 2023, 06:01:26 PM
With RPI winning the tie breaker over Skidmore we end up with:

1. Ithaca
2. SLU
3. Hobart
4. RPI
5. Skidmore
6. Vassar

Hobart will be highly motivated against Vassar given what happened last year, this year the Statesmen get the game at home. 

Ithaca handled Vassar with relative ease to clinch the regular season.  Four 5th year players and several seniors certainly benefited the Bombers this season.  They are extremely tough at home and now get all remaining playoff games at Ben Light. 

SLU finishes the regular season winning 6 straight.  5 of these games the Scarlet and Brown were Massey underdogs.  One of Downs' best coached seasons that I can remember.  Union seniors put up a great performance in their last games wearing the garnet.  I just kept waiting for their outside shooting percentages to go down but they hit shot after shot. 

RPI and Skidmore should be a good one, they match up pretty well and RPI will also be looking for some revenge after last year's playoff performance against the Thoroughbreds.
Nice summary, and a good tournament to look forward to. I think Hobart and RPI should make it to the final four, but not without some drama.. Ithaca will be the favorite at home, but I think any of the final four could get hot and take it. I know Hobart will not be intimidated having won at Ithaca this year, but they'll have to get by a hot SLU team to make it to the final by limiting turnovers. RPI always seems to have the capacity to defend well under pressure and could surprise Ithaca. It certainly will be entertaining.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on February 18, 2023, 06:38:21 PM
Not that the outcome matters regarding an off year for Union, but how does the Home Team have 0-0 free throws versus St. Lawrence 18-25 ???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 18, 2023, 07:10:04 PM
Quote from: ucaafan on February 18, 2023, 06:38:21 PM
Not that the outcome matters regarding an off year for Union, but how does the Home Team have 0-0 free throws versus St. Lawrence 18-25 ???

All of Union's shots were from 12+ feet.  Even their points in the paint were shots with one foot in the paint from the elbow.  It was pretty impressive how they kept making them, but they did not go inside at any point in the game.  Glad to see ucaafan back from a 3 year hiatus!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ucaafan on February 18, 2023, 08:59:51 PM
Good to be back and appreciate the welcome! Looking forward to a better year for the Dutchmen and wish the Saints good luck in the playoffs!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 18, 2023, 11:39:50 PM
Anyone have thoughts on league awards?  I think it will be as follows:

Player of the year:  Jackson Meshanic, Sr, Hobart.
Defensive player of the year: Trey Syroka, Jr, SLU.
Rookie of the year: Calvin Mader-Clark, Bard.
Coach of the year: Chris Downs, SLU.

First team:

Dom Black, Gr, RPI.
Jackson Meshanic, Sr, Hobart.
Trey Syroka, Jr, SLU.
Luka Radovich, Gr, Ithaca.
Tautvydas Kupstas, Sr, Skidmore.

Almost the same as last year with the exception of Syroka.

2nd team:

Trent Adamson, Sr, SLU.
Logan Wendell, So, Ithaca.
Kevin Ryan, Sr, RIT.
Avni Mustafaj, Sr, Vassar. 
Riley Greene, Sr, Skidmore.

Honorable mention:

Greg Skoric, Sr, Skidmore.
Skylar Sinon, Gr, Ithaca.
Blake Gearhart, Sr, Clarkson.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 23, 2023, 08:08:52 AM
RPI and Hobart move on as expected. As far as the finals, I think all four teams have a decent chance.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 24, 2023, 10:21:47 PM
The old adage of "it's hard to beat a team 3 times in one season" came to fruition tonight with RPI upsetting the Bombers at the bulb.  Ithaca played right into RPI's hands defensively.  Not sure about the foul strategy by the Bombers at the end.  A great run for that group.  They graduate four 5th year players who all had great careers.  Seems like 2 seniors on this team will be back for a 5th next year.

I had that game streaming from my phone as I of course was at Burkman tonight for the other semi final.  What a phenomenal game and excellent representation of division III basketball.  15 ties and 6 lead changes with back and forth action most of the night.  Percentages were going to favor SLU in the 2nd half as Trent Adamson missed about 5 wide open layups in the first half and the Saints went into the break 0 for from 3.  The crowd was definitely the best I can remember since the Saints hosted a first round pod in 2009.  Crowd was just as loud and raucous tonight as it was that weekend.   

I really feel for Jackson Meshanic.  He put everything he had left into that game.  He looked like he got injured the 2nd play of the 2nd half and he fought through it making step back after step back.  What a great career for who should be the Liberty League player of the year this season.   After the game it was hard seeing him coming to grips with acknowledging the end of his Hobart playing days, but I commend him for his career and being such a pleasure to watch the past 5 years.  Well played to the Statesmen. 

RPI will be wanting to put that old adage to the test again as SLU won both regular season matchups. The Saints will need to play a perfect game, the Engineers have got a taste and now want the whole thing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 24, 2023, 11:59:44 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 24, 2023, 10:21:47 PM
The old adage of "it's hard to beat a team 3 times in one season" came to fruition tonight with RPI upsetting the Bombers at the bulb.  Ithaca played right into RPI's hands defensively.  Not sure about the foul strategy by the Bombers at the end.  A great run for that group.  They graduate four 5th year players who all had great careers.  Seems like 2 seniors on this team will be back for a 5th next year.

I had that game streaming from my phone as I of course was at Burkman tonight for the other semi final.  What a phenomenal game and excellent representation of division III basketball.  15 ties and 6 lead changes with back and forth action most of the night.  Percentages were going to favor SLU in the 2nd half as Trent Adamson missed about 5 wide open layups in the first half and the Saints went into the break 0 for from 3.  The crowd was definitely the best I can remember since the Saints hosted a first round pod in 2009.  Crowd was just as loud and raucous tonight as it was that weekend.   

I really feel for Jackson Meshanic.  He put everything he had left into that game.  He looked like he got injured the 2nd play of the 2nd half and he fought through it making step back after step back.  What a great career for who should be the Liberty League player of the year this season.   After the game it was hard seeing him coming to grips with acknowledging the end of his Hobart playing days, but I commend him for his career and being such a pleasure to watch the past 5 years.  Well played to the Statesmen. 

RPI will be wanting to put that old adage to the test again as SLU won both regular season matchups. The Saints will need to play a perfect game, the Engineers have got a taste and now want the whole thing.
Great summary of 2 fantastic games. I was hoping that Jackson Mechanic's final game would be played in Geneva Sunday for a LL title, and it was so close to happening. Congratulations to the Saints for getting another OT win over Hobart, as neither team quit all night. RPI had a big lead on the Bombers but they fought back valiantly, however, the better coached team won the day as RPI showed great poise down the stretch, especially nailing foul shots while Ithaca fans were allowed to swirl jackets and towels just under the basket practically on the baseline.It should be a great FINAL game in SLUTown. I'm expecting another close exciting game to end this uber competitive LL season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: saint_forever on February 25, 2023, 11:15:24 AM
Was at the game in Burkman. I would be surprised to know of another atmosphere in D3 better than that last night. Proper fan sections cheering for their team. Should be another madhouse on Sunday. RPI will be playing SLU and their fans.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 26, 2023, 04:37:46 PM
Defensive showdown today at Burkman.  Looked like SLU was going to run away with it in the 2nd half but RPI held SLU scoreless for the final 8:30 of regulation.  SLU returned the favor by shutting RPI out in overtime.  Between the end of the first half and overtime SLU held RPI scoreless the final 10:30.   Great game, even better atmosphere.  SLU have been Massey underdogs in 7 of their last 8 games and won all of them.  This team also loves playing overtime.   

Credit to the Engineers for a great season.  They are one of the best defensive teams in the country for a reason.  Very well coached and well disciplined.   If Dom Black makes the front end of the 1-and-1 in overtime to make it a one possession game it might have resulted in a different outcome, but that's the benefit of playing at home with a first round bye.  If the roles were reversed Black makes that most times. 

Very happy to see the Saints extend their season. 13 years since the last league championship.  Not bad for a team picked to finish 6th.

 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 27, 2023, 07:50:06 AM
A fitting ending to the LL season, with an OT win by the Saints over RPI, the most disciplined team in the LL. The SLU fans were so lucky to not only win, but have both playoff OT wins on their court. D3 basketball at its absolute best, just playing for the love of the game. Good luck to the Saints in the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 27, 2023, 02:51:39 PM
I thought SLU would get sent to Rowan or Stockton and to the land of the Ospreys they go.  Doesn't get any easier with UMW, but hopefully we get a good game!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on February 28, 2023, 07:07:26 PM
So as expected the LL did not sniff an at large, Pool C,  tournament bid. I'm not claiming anyone earned one BUT...

Three weeks ago (2/10) I uncovered what I thought was an abnormality and potential head scratcher. It involved the Regional Rankings and how one conference, the UAA had numerous teams ranked thus opening the door for them to have multiple teams picked as Pool C participants. I just checked the tourney bracket and sure enough in addition to the UAA champion Case Western Reserve they also had 4 additional teams make the field....NYU,Emory,Washington U and Rochester.  :o Of course the one that jumps out to Liberty League fans is the Yellowjackets, somehow chosen despite their 6-8 league record and the fact that they lost 6 of their last 9 games!  BTW in games versus LL opponents this season Rochester was 1-1 beating Ithaca and losing to Hobart. Do you have a comment Bartman?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on February 28, 2023, 08:02:26 PM
I'm stuck at home on medical recovery so have a bit of time on my hands.

Apparently this NCAA committee [of which U of R's coach is a member, but has to sit out when his team is at the table] has been told to consider the entire body of work, not "how you are doing lately"?

They were 6-8 in the UAA, but 10-1 against their non-conference schedule which included a couple of wins over teams in the tournament [Neutral vs. St. John Fisher,  Home vs Middlebury] but also had that loss at Hobart.  They played Geneseo, St. John Fisher, Nazareth, Hobart, Ithaca, and RIT from Region 3.

In total AQ & Pool C, New York State had 10 of the 64 teams in the tournament.

Oswego St, Rochester, Utica, NYU, Hamilton, St John Fisher, St Lawrence, SUNY Delhi, Baruch & Farmingdale St

I suspect they were one of the last Pool C teams in the field.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 28, 2023, 08:30:45 PM
Quote from: thebear on February 28, 2023, 08:02:26 PM
I'm stuck at home on medical recovery so have a bit of time on my hands.

Apparently this NCAA committee [of which U of R's coach is a member, but has to sit out when his team is at the table] has been told to consider the entire body of work, not "how you are doing lately"?

They were 6-8 in the UAA, but 10-1 against their non-conference schedule which included a couple of wins over teams in the tournament [Neutral vs. St. John Fisher,  Home vs Middlebury] but also had that loss at Hobart.  They played Geneseo, St. John Fisher, Nazareth, Hobart, Ithaca, and RIT from Region 3.

In total AQ & Pool C, New York State had 10 of the 64 teams in the tournament.

Oswego St, Rochester, Utica, NYU, Hamilton, St John Fisher, St Lawrence, SUNY Delhi, Baruch & Farmingdale St

I suspect they were one of the last Pool C teams in the field.

No matter how much folks insist that this has no influence, I will never believe it and there is literally nothing you can say to convince me otherwise.  Just because he's not in the room doesn't mean there isn't at the very least some psychological influence on the rest of the committee.  Don't try to wiz on my leg and tell me it's raining. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ronk on February 28, 2023, 08:53:37 PM
 And, even prior to the Pool C selections that you are discussing, the RAC for region 3 had 4 of its 5 members seemingly affected by what that regional ranking would be, which is keystone to the subsequent pool C deliberations. Only the rep from Union would have been unaffected by the deliberation; did he do the regional ranking by himself? I emailed this question to Hoopsville but it wasn't voiced to the committee chair Sunday or Monday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2023, 11:20:23 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 28, 2023, 08:53:37 PM
And, even prior to the Pool C selections that you are discussing, the RAC for region 3 had 4 of its 5 members seemingly affected by what that regional ranking would be, which is keystone to the subsequent pool C deliberations. Only the rep from Union would have been unaffected by the deliberation; did he do the regional ranking by himself? I emailed this question to Hoopsville but it wasn't voiced to the committee chair Sunday or Monday.

As I understand it, typically RACs consider 2 or 3 teams at a time, not the whole slate.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ronk on February 28, 2023, 11:53:32 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2023, 11:20:23 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 28, 2023, 08:53:37 PM
And, even prior to the Pool C selections that you are discussing, the RAC for region 3 had 4 of its 5 members seemingly affected by what that regional ranking would be, which is keystone to the subsequent pool C deliberations. Only the rep from Union would have been unaffected by the deliberation; did he do the regional ranking by himself? I emailed this question to Hoopsville but it wasn't voiced to the committee chair Sunday or Monday.

As I understand it, typically RACs consider 2 or 3 teams at a time, not the whole slate.

Yes, even if so, any combo of 2 or 3 teams would affect all but 1 of the RAC members; arguing for any team would be an argument against your own team. I don't have in a dog in this fight; my school has an AQ. Just wondering about the procedure and consistent application of the procedure for all of D3, men and women.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: names jaismith on March 01, 2023, 07:57:16 AM
I've said this elsewhere.  The process for selecting Pool C is dumb. Use conference tournaments (+UAA champ) to guarantee every conference access.  After that some reliable statistical measure like Massey to pick Pool C.  Not perfect but it would be a way better tournament
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 01, 2023, 08:47:00 AM
Actually Drew Pasteur has done this exact thing, He's a stats professor at Wooster, he used Snyder, D3Hoops, and Massey and then applies his own statistical methods [ELO, margin of victory etc.]

I believe he got 19 of 20 Pool C's right this year, even with the upsets in conference tournaments, only miss was picking Guilford over U of R for what was probably the last pool C team. 

The D3 Hoops gang on their show picked Rochester as did the committee and also got 19 of 20 right.

I think the committee did a fairly good job this year on Pool C, esp with the conference tournament upsets.

That being said, it must be a tough pill for Guilford with three of their losses to the #1 seed by 13, 3, and 7 points, and all of their 6 D3 losses to top 50 teams who are in the tournament.  They also played D-I Davidson in a game that was not considered an exhibition. Rochester had some really bad in conference losses late in the season. Guilford also beat Emory, who swept Rochester, which for some reason the committee overlooked.

Watching the tournament since the 1960's - The D-I committee clearly uses a "what have you done lately" method of looking at Bubble teams, but apparently the D-3 committee looks at the whole body of work, including early season results before a team may have "jelled".
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SpringSt7 on March 01, 2023, 02:35:04 PM
Drew Pasteur's Pool C picks are a prediction of who the committee will pick and uses their primary criteria in doing so. To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't come out and said that the committee's selection process is the best way to do so.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 02, 2023, 12:25:21 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on February 28, 2023, 07:07:26 PM
So as expected the LL did not sniff an at large, Pool C,  tournament bid. I'm not claiming anyone earned one BUT...

Three weeks ago (2/10) I uncovered what I thought was an abnormality and potential head scratcher. It involved the Regional Rankings and how one conference, the UAA had numerous teams ranked thus opening the door for them to have multiple teams picked as Pool C participants. I just checked the tourney bracket and sure enough in addition to the UAA champion Case Western Reserve they also had 4 additional teams make the field....NYU,Emory,Washington U and Rochester.  :o Of course the one that jumps out to Liberty League fans is the Yellowjackets, somehow chosen despite their 6-8 league record and the fact that they lost 6 of their last 9 games!  BTW in games versus LL opponents this season Rochester was 1-1 beating Ithaca and losing to Hobart. Do you have a comment Bartman?
Hobart beat the Yellowjackets and was a great indication of the strength of the LL, although the cannabalization this season didn't help. I do think the UAA is a overrated . I think if Ithaca made it to the finals and SLU beat them, the Bombers had a chance at a pool C. Unfortunately everyone else had to win the LL tourney to get in. The only team that Hobart played in the region that was clearly a step above was Oswego. Good luck to the Saints.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 03, 2023, 05:28:55 PM
St. Lawrence getting absolutely stomped out. This conference needs to get a lot better. We're far behind even our friends in the E8 and SUNYAC at the kiddie table in Region 3.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 03, 2023, 05:43:00 PM
Tough way to end the season for sure, but this team is 2 seasons removed from an 8 win campaign.  Would have liked the game to be more competitive, but sometimes it's the luck of the draw with opponents come tourney time and they drew a bad one.  Mary Washington starts three 5th year players and they certainly played like a veteran team.  Definitely a reason why they gave RMC their only loss of the season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 06, 2023, 05:01:43 PM
Saw a comment on the NESCAC board about players lost to graduation.  I tried this last year and let's just say my predictions did not work out.  With the covid year it's impossible to tell.  That being said, there are players we know are not coming back from an eligibility stand point.   

Ithaca:  Loses four 5th year players in Sikoryak, Sinon, Radovich and Warech.   That's a lot of production on both ends of the court to replace.  Sikoryak has been their point guard for years, Radovich is a two time LL first team player, Warech is one of their best shooters and Sinon is far and away the team's best defender.    I know they have 2 seniors this year who will return for a 5th year next season (Spellman and Stern) and they have some nice pieces coming back as is (most notably Wendell), so they'll probably be ok next year.  Still, that's a lot to replace. 

SLU:  All seniors technically have a covid year but I don't foresee any returning.  Unlike RPI and Ithaca, SLU doesn't have the graduate school apparatus like those schools do so it's a lot harder for athletes to exercise the 5th year.  They've had some over the last year or 2, but there is only 1 graduate program which limits the options. Technically there are options to attend graduate school across route 11 at Clarkson (I know football players have done this), but as it stands I predict all seniors on this year's squad will graduate.    They still bring a good deal back including the starting back court, so I expect them to compete for the top next year as well.  One more summer for Andrew Cowan should solidify him as the starting center, and from there it's only a question of who starts at the 4 (or fourth guard).  Carter Storey was a good 6th man this season so there's a good chance it will be him. 

RPI loses Dom Black, who as everyone knows won 3 straight defensive player of the year awards.  RPI started a lot of seniors this year but again, with all of them having an extra year of eligibility who really knows if some or any are actually graduating.  No matter what, given Gilbride's coaching prowess I would expect RPI to compete for a league title next year.

Hobart loses Jackson Meshanic.  This will probably be the biggest single graduation impact in the league. Hobart is a solid team, but Meshanic was the guy.  They were clearly a different team when he was out of the game.  If his younger brothers keep developing then that would greatly help the Statesmen out.  That being said, I would not be surprised to see Hobart have as good of a year next season or even improve next season.  There are seniors on the team, but all have eligibility.   They always recruit well so I'll never count them out.

Skidmore is a wild card.  Skoric is out of eligibility as is his backup in Stratts.   Will definitely be hard to replace that much rim protection and rebounding.  However, the younger brother was a freshman this season with as much size, so we'll see how he develops.  If he can even come close to playing like his brother the Thoroughbreds will be set in the front court for quite a while.  Kupstas is a senior but has eligibility remaining.  I know he has pro aspirations, so I'm not sure if he comes back or moves on to the next phase of his playing career.   Greene is a senior with eligibility so again, it's impossible to know if he leaves or stays.  Basically, Skidmore is a wild card.  They had some great wins this season but also some bad losses.  Lack of depth really hurt them, so I suspect Burke is trying to get as many seniors back for next year as he can. 

Vassar was the one prediction I got right.  I said several times that I wouldn't be surprised to see them regress, as it's common for teams to do so after having unexpectedly good seasons the year before.   A lot of this can be attributed to Zach Johnson's injury, but they had a few players not put up the same numbers, most notably from a 3PT shooting perspective.   All 5 senior starters have another season of eligibility, but Vassar is similar to SLU with regard to its graduate options so who knows what will happen.

RIT has a decent amount of seniors with eligibility remaining, and with RIT's graduate apparatus they all have several options for a 5th year.  I was a bit disappointed with RIT this year, they started decently and brought back a good number of veterans but like most years their defense let them down.   They have a few solid underclassmen so they'll be hoping this summer yields some development.

Clarkson was another team that probably underachieved.  They managed to sweep SLU this season which was big, but otherwise lost games they shouldn't have.   Beating Hobart was a good achievement, but Hobart had just played an OT game against SLU the night before.   Both times I saw them against SLU I was very impressed with their defense, but those defensive efforts were not replicated the rest of the season.  They were a really good 3PT shooting team, but just too inconsistent on the defensive end (aside from when they played SLU).   They have a lot of seniors and Clarkson has a pretty big graduate school system so it's possible for them to return.   The Bear teaches over there so maybe he has some insight into their situation.

Union also underachieved given their returning players.  They started four 5th year players, all who could shoot lights out on any given night.  They managed to beat RPI which showed they had the experience to beat anyone, but that ended up being an outlier.  Concannon clearly was not at 100% with his knee injury from last year, and didn't finish the season.  I didn't even see him on the bench against SLU the last game of the regular season.  Lovisolo had high pedigree but never really seemed to put it all together until the very end.  If he had another year left he could do some serious damage but him, Concannon, Manley and Noone are all out of eligibility.  They do have this year's rookie of the year who is a strong inside presence and also bring back Baptiste, but that's a lot of experience to lose.

Bard is definitely a program on the upswing.  Really solid 3PT shooting team and a decent rebounding team given their size mismatches under the rim.  They bring back a lot of players next year, including who I felt should have been the rookie of the year in Calvin Bader-Clark.  He's a true wing player with great size.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on March 06, 2023, 06:53:10 PM
In a follow-up to a post I made last week...Rochester, who was thought by some (me) as questionable as to their credentials to be a Pool C pick, blew a 16 point halftime lead and lost to Nichols 74-71 to be quickly eliminated. 2 of the other 4 UAA in the field also lost their openers. The two first round winners lost in the second round. Something we're familiar with here...KARMA?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 06, 2023, 07:03:46 PM
Just wait until next year when a 14-11 Rochester hosts a first round pod
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2023, 01:12:03 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on March 06, 2023, 06:53:10 PM
In a follow-up to a post I made last week...Rochester, who was thought by some (me) as questionable as to their credentials to be a Pool C pick, blew a 16 point halftime lead and lost to Nichols 74-71 to be quickly eliminated. 2 of the other 4 UAA in the field also lost their openers. The two first round winners lost in the second round. Something we're familiar with here...KARMA?

I mean, all of the NESCAC teams lost in the first weekend as well, so I guess indict the entire NESCAC as well?

It was relatively well understood in a lot of D-III circles that the NESCAC and the UAA were both deep but that neither one necessarily had a Final Four team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on March 08, 2023, 07:47:28 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2023, 01:12:03 PM
Quote from: UfanBill on March 06, 2023, 06:53:10 PM
In a follow-up to a post I made last week...Rochester, who was thought by some (me) as questionable as to their credentials to be a Pool C pick, blew a 16 point halftime lead and lost to Nichols 74-71 to be quickly eliminated. 2 of the other 4 UAA in the field also lost their openers. The two first round winners lost in the second round. Something we're familiar with here...KARMA?

I mean, all of the NESCAC teams lost in the first weekend as well, so I guess indict the entire NESCAC as well?

It was relatively well understood in a lot of D-III circles that the NESCAC and the UAA were both deep but that neither one necessarily had a Final Four team.

To answer your question...I believe the system that rewards 4 or 5 teams in a conference while excluding regular season champs that unfortunately get upset in their tourney is what should be under scrutiny.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2023, 07:36:12 AM
Also,  Rochester was up 20 on Nichols in the second half. Hard to argue they were out of place in the tournament. There have definitely been years where big conference teams who got in late didn't look so good that would illustrate the point better.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deiscanton on March 09, 2023, 08:51:17 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2023, 07:36:12 AM
Also,  Rochester was up 20 on Nichols in the second half. Hard to argue they were out of place in the tournament. There have definitely been years where big conference teams who got in late didn't look so good that would illustrate the point better.

Correction-- Rochester was up 20 on Nichols with 5:10 left in the first half. (UR up 35-15).  UR was up by 16 at halftime (46-30), but Nichols cut the 16 point deficit to single digits with 10 minutes to go in regulation and tied the score at 63-63 with 5:34 left in regulation.

Based on Matt Snyder's net efficiency ratings system coming into the contest, the game between Rochester and Nichols was expected to be close.  Not a surprise that Nichols won the game, but maybe a surprise that Nichols was down by 20 points in the first half to begin with.

Also, on the D3Hoops Datacast Episode 28 mentioning chances of UAA teams to make it to the "Final Four" this year only gave Rochester a 4% chance to make it to Fort Wayne to start with.  NYU had a 19% chance to make it to Fort Wayne at the beginning of the tournament but was upset by Lancaster Bible in the first round. 

Credit the parity of the entire field of teams that made it in to the NCAA tournament this year as the reason why all of the NESCAC and the UAA teams in the field were eliminated by the end of the second round this year-- for the first time since NESCAC teams were first allowed to compete in the NCAAs back in the 1993-94 season.

Rochester, by performance over the entirety of the season, and not just performance in February, had earned the right to at least lose in the postseason on the court by a team outside the UAA this year rather than having a board decide artificially that UR did not belong in the field based on criteria that the DIII Championships Committee did not give the Men's Basketball Committee permission to consider.  (Performance over last 10 games-- you cannot consider this exclusively for basketball without doing this for other team sports as well.-- plus applying this criteria diminishes the importance of winning in the first half non-conference games in November and December in the basketball season by giving greater weight to conference games in January and February.)

Applying the criteria as given can have the side-effect of excluding other tournament-caliber teams who could win a game or two in the NCAAs if picked, but that is spelled out in the NCAA DIII Basketball-Prechampionship Manuals going into the process.

In addition, all 3 teams who knocked out Pool C teams with a winning pct under .667 going into the NCAAs (Hope in 2016-17 (def. UW-Oshkosh), St. Thomas (MN) in 2018-19 (def. UW-La Crosse), and Nichols (def. Rochester) this season) made it to the Sweet 16.  However, if Nichols defeats Stockton on Friday, the Bison will be the first of those 3 teams to make it to the Elite Eight, as the other two teams (the Dutchmen and the Tommies) lost in the round of 16 in previous tournaments.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 09, 2023, 11:12:22 AM
Twas a long time ago, but in 1982, defending National Champion Potsdam, was somehow selected for the field with a 16-9 regular season record, won 3 games on the road to get to the Final Four, and won the semi-final vs. Brooklyn at Calvin before running into future NFL player Pete Metzelaars & Wabash in the championship game. 

The regional games were decided by one and two points, and the national semi by one point.

Just says, you never know who can get hot and make a run. 

The most losses by a d3 champion is 6 by Wash U in the 2008 tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 14, 2023, 03:36:10 PM
A well deserved Region 3 POY honor for Jackson Meshanic.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 15, 2023, 08:40:31 PM
Is Tobin Anderson the first former Liberty League/UCAA/ICAC coach to win a division I tournament game since Paul Evans?  Trying to think back to who coached in the UCAA days and can't come up with anyone who made the jump and/or won a tourney game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on March 16, 2023, 08:40:48 AM
Quote from: stlawus on March 15, 2023, 08:40:31 PM
Is Tobin Anderson the first former Liberty League/UCAA/ICAC coach to win a division I tournament game since Paul Evans?  Trying to think back to who coached in the UCAA days and can't come up with anyone who made the jump and/or won a tourney game.

Paulsen made the jump, made the tournament at Bucknell twice, but don't see that he ever won a game.

Mike Deane was a former D3 coach who has won tournament games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on March 17, 2023, 09:33:33 PM
How bout the former Clarkson and Hamilton guy Tobin Anderson, incredible!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: UfanBill on March 20, 2023, 08:40:46 PM
Quote from: stlawus on March 15, 2023, 08:40:31 PM
Is Tobin Anderson the first former Liberty League/UCAA/ICAC coach to win a division I tournament game since Paul Evans?  Trying to think back to who coached in the UCAA days and can't come up with anyone who made the jump and/or won a tourney game.

Former Union player Bill Carmody '72-'75 started his coaching career as an assistant at Union before moving on as an assistant to Gary Walters at Providence and Pete Carril at Princeton. He followed Carill as head coach at Princeton in 1996 where the Tigers made the tournament twice in 1997 and 1998, winning a game in '98. He became the head coach at Northwestern 2000-2013 going to four straight NITs while being slighted for the NCAAs. He then became HC at Holy Cross and took the Crusaders to the Big Dance his first year 2016. Quite a career. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 23, 2023, 08:31:01 PM
Suppose it's time for an updated commit list. 

Ithaca-

Yoav Regev, 6'5" F, Worcester Academy MA
Jaylon O'Neal, 6' G, Central Valley Academy NY
Jose Padilla, 5'11" G, Newton North HS MA
Alex Penders, 6'5" F, Foxborough HS MA


SLU-

Colton Suriano, 6'4" G/F, New Hartford HS NY
Brayden Shepardson, 6' G, West Canada Valley HS NY
Troy McPherson, 6'1" G, Brighton HS NY


Hobart-

Alex Moesch, 6'1" G, Chittenango HS NY


RPI-

Patrick White, 6'6" F, Tabor Academy MA
TJ Halloran, 6'4" G, Westfield HS NJ
PJ Scalisi, 6'3" G, Monsignor Farrell HS NY
Andrew Deppe, 6'5" F/C, Hopedale HS MA

Skidmore-

Dillon McCafferty, 6'3" G, East Chapel Hill HS NC
Aidan Roy, 6'1" G, Mamaroneck HS NY
Charlie Fantom, 6'4" G, Wilbraham & Monson Academy MA
Jack LaGarde, 6'7" F, Nashoba HS MA

Vassar-

Collin France, 6'4" G/F, University School of Nashville TN
Kale Elmhorst, 6'6" G/F, Lakeland HS FL
Kreekor Karageuzian, 6'1" G, St. Ignatius Prep CA


Clarkson-

Ben Phillips, 6'7" F/C, Ballston Spa HS NY


RIT-

Brody Brown, 6'4" G, Lowville Academy NY


Union-

Matthew Garside, 6'2" G, Kings Park HS NY
Aidan Duffy, 6'6" F, Portsmouth Abbey School, RI


Bard-

Elijah Looney, 6'4" G, Trinity Valley HS TX



As always, this list is incomplete.  Feel free to add if you know others.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on April 26, 2023, 01:48:53 PM

Vassar
Shea Fitzgerald, 6'1" G, Cathedral Catholic (San Diego, CA)


RPI is also expected to return two freshman from last year who never got off the injured list
Chris Faughnan, 6'5" F, Our Lady of Lourdes (Poughkeepsie, NY)
Nate Boateng, 6'7" F, Fordham Prep (Bronx, NY)


People have told me that Union commit Matt Garside is a player. Big time scorer against good competition and Suffolk county player of the year (Newsday).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on April 26, 2023, 10:16:50 PM
Garside's tape looks pretty good.  Union needed a recruit like him, they lose four 5th year players and most of their scoring.  They bring back the LL ROY so hopefully they are back on the right track. 

Lots of good players inbound for next year.  Ithaca has a great point guard recruit, as does Skidmore.  RPI pretty much never has sub par classes. 

Still some unknowns as far as returning players.  All of Vassar's starters have one more year of eligibility but it remains to be seen if any of them use it.  Harder for them since Vassar doesn't really have a graduate program apparatus.    RPI is guaranteed to lose Dom Black, and their remaining seniors have the extra year.  Easier for them since RPI has an extensive grad system, but again who knows if they play one more year. 

Kupstas is in the portal for Skidmore, and they lose the older Skoric and Eichelberger.  Quite a bit to replace but as I said they have a pretty good class coming in. 

Hobart is a bit of a wild card.  Losing Jackson Meshanic is going to leave a major hole in the program.  But it's still Hobart, you can never count them out even in a year where they seem to be rebuilding.  For all we know the younger Meshanics will take a huge step forward.  The same can be said for Ithaca.  They also lose four 5th year players which includes one of the league's best players in Radovich.  They are bringing back 2 5th year players for next year, and as I said have a great point guard recruit. 

SLU's in a pretty good spot, especially if the Macaulay twins improve even more than they have already.  Expectations will be high, but being the defending champs they'll have a target on their back which changes the dynamic.  Not unusual for successful teams returning a lot of players to come up short the following season.  I thought they were in a pretty good situation before the transfer news, but now there's reason for genuine optimism.  Whether it materializes remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on May 03, 2023, 12:08:19 PM
Now that all of the NYSSWA all state teams are out, here are where the Liberty League recruits (based on slawus' list) ended up on the various teams.  This may have little bearing on their college production, but some may find it interesting.  If I did not miss something, all but one made at least honorable mention.

Ithaca-
Jaylon O'Neal, 6' G, Central Valley Academy NY  (Class B 1st Team)

SLU-
Colton Suriano, 6'4" G/F, New Hartford HS NY  (Class A Honorable Mention)
Brayden Shepardson, 6' G, West Canada Valley HS NY  (Class D 2nd Team)
Troy McPherson, 6'1" G, Brighton HS NY  (Class AA 11th Team)

Hobart-
Alex Moesch, 6'1" G, Chittenango HS NY  (Class B 3rd Team)

RPI-
PJ Scalisi, 6'3" G, Monsignor Farrell HS NY  (Class A 1st Team)

Skidmore-
Aidan Roy, 6'1" G, Mamaroneck HS NY  (Class AA Honorable Mention)

Clarkson-
Ben Phillips, 6'7" F/C, Ballston Spa HS NY  (N/A)

RIT-
Brody Brown, 6'4" G, Lowville Academy NY Lowville  (Class B 15th Team)

Union-
Matthew Garside, 6'2" G, Kings Park HS NY  (Class A 2nd Team)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 08, 2023, 11:05:44 PM
Tautvydas Kupstas is heading to division II, will be playing for West Florida next season.  Great player who more than earned a chance to play a level up.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 23, 2023, 01:04:21 PM
Former Saint player and assistant coach Corey Begley was just announced as the new HC at Washington College.  The Downs coaching tree continues to grow.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on May 23, 2023, 01:07:56 PM
Bard head coach Mike Lenahan to Willamette of the NWC.

https://www.wubearcats.com/sports/mbkb/2022-23/releases/20230519mo8jvs
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bearcat Press on May 25, 2023, 08:31:58 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on May 23, 2023, 01:07:56 PM
Bard head coach Mike Lenahan to Willamette of the NWC.

https://www.wubearcats.com/sports/mbkb/2022-23/releases/20230519mo8jvs

Hi everyone; Willamette alum here.  We don't see teams from the Liberty League very often out in Oregon, so I was wondering if any of the folks on this board could give me some insight on what we're getting in Coach Lenahan.  I see his record at Bard was only 15-35, but I also see that the team was 0-24 the year before he arrived.  How would you all assess the rebuilding job he did?  (For context, we haven't had a winning season in 15 years ourselves, so he's in for a big rebuild here too.)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 25, 2023, 10:02:45 PM
Bard was a lot more competitive with him.  Even with their record they were never an easy out, every team regardless of standings had to bring their A game because they could punish you.  For most years that was not the case with Bard. They shot a lot of threes under Linehan and were a lot more uptempo than previous Bard teams.   He seemed to get a lot out of his players who also seemed to enjoy playing for him. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bearcat Press on May 26, 2023, 06:36:21 PM
Quote from: stlawus on May 25, 2023, 10:02:45 PM
Bard was a lot more competitive with him.  Even with their record they were never an easy out, every team regardless of standings had to bring their A game because they could punish you.  For most years that was not the case with Bard. They shot a lot of threes under Linehan and were a lot more uptempo than previous Bard teams.   He seemed to get a lot out of his players who also seemed to enjoy playing for him.

That's great to hear. Thanks!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on June 09, 2023, 01:45:40 PM
RPI posted their commit list yesterday.  It includes the four mentioned by stlawus back in March plus two more for a total of 6.
https://rpiathletics.com/news/2023/6/8/six-sign-mens-basketball-celebratory-letters.aspx (https://rpiathletics.com/news/2023/6/8/six-sign-mens-basketball-celebratory-letters.aspx)

That makes 11 recruits over the past two years, and I believe everyone but Dom Black from last year still has eligibility.  I have no knowledge of who may or may not return.   
RPI usually has a fairly large roster, but I can't see them keeping a 22 players  ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 09, 2023, 06:00:07 PM
Didn't see this earlier in the week.  Out with a Liberty League alum on the Conn College staff, in with another.  Pat Mahoney joins the Camels on the bench for next season.  https://camelathletics.com/news/2023/7/5/conn-college-hires-mahoney-as-mens-basketball-assistant.aspx

Great opportunity for Mahoney.  Sweeney of course has a lot of familiarity with him from his time at Hobart. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on July 29, 2023, 10:37:39 AM
Bard makes a hire. Third HC in four years for the seniors:

https://bardathletics.com/news/2023/7/27/mens-basketball-david-sloan-named-head-mens-basketball-coach.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on September 29, 2023, 06:26:07 PM
With the start of the season less than six weeks away, here is what I believe to be the out of conference opponents for all of the LL teams. With the exception of Bard, every team will play (or potentially play) one or two NCAA tournament teams from last season.  Bard does play D1 Columbia.

Bard
SUNY Delhi
@ Columbia
@ Hudson Valley Classic - Mount St Mary
@ Hudson Valley Classic - SUNY New Paltz
Albany College of Pharmacy
@ Old Westbury
@ Oglethorpe Tournament - Oglethorpe
@ Oglethorpe Tournament - Belhaven

Clarkson
Plattsburg State
@ Hilbert Tournament - Hilbert
@ Hilbert Tournament - Allegheny or Lancaster Bible
@ Oswego State
@ SUNY Potsdam
Vermont State Lyndon
SUNY Canton

Hobart
@ St John Fisher
Morrisville State
Brockport
@ Rochester
Wells
@ Florida Sunshine Shootout - Immaculata
@ Florida Sunshine Shootout - St. Scholastica

Ithaca
@ Cortland
@ Hamilton
@ Bridgewater State Tournament - Bridgewater State
@ Bridgewater State Tournament - WPI or Johnson & Wales
Utica
Rochester
@ Carnegie Melon

RIT
@ Wells
@ Crosstown Shootout - St. John Fisher
@ Crosstown Shootout - Nazareth
Alfred State
RIT Tournament - Gallaudet
RIT Tournament - Elmira
Rochester

RPI
@ Oswego State Tournament - Keuka College
@ Oswego State Tournament - Oswego State or SUNY Poly
@ SUNY Poly
@ SUNY Delhi
SUNY Cobleskill
@ Utica Classic - Connecticut College
@ Utica Classic - Utica or Colby Sawyer

St. Lawrence
@ SUNY Potsdam
Plattsburg State
@ Williams Tournament - St. Joseph's (LI)
@ Williams Tournament - Williams or Worcester State
@ Oswego State
SUNY Geneseo

Skidmore
SUNY New Paltz
@ SUNY Potsdam
@ Emmanuel Tournament - Wesleyan
@ Emmanuel Tournament - Emmanuel or Endicott
Hartwick
@ Middlebury

Union
Mount Saint Vincent
@ Sarah Lawrence
@ SUNY Cobleskill
Union Tournament - Elms
Union Tournament - Hartwick or SUNY Maritime
Farmingdale State

Vassar
Gallaudet
Haverford or SUNY Purchase
Williams
@ Hudson Valley Classic - Mount St. Mary
@ Hudson Valley Classic - SUNY New Paltz
@ Western Connecticut Tournament - The College of New Jersey
@ Western Connecticut Tournament - Western Connecticut State
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ronk on September 29, 2023, 07:06:53 PM
 A worthwhile effort on your part - may possibly spread to others doing the same with their favorite conference. Interesting from an strength(weakness) of schedule perspective.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 29, 2023, 07:40:45 PM
Thanks for the compilation, that no doubt took some time to compile. 

From a tentative standpoint Ithaca likely has the top SOS and Union has the weakest.

Hard to believe it's almost October already.   No rosters have been posted yet so it's hard to make a definitive prediction.  However, I've been able to put bits and pieces together for some teams.   It seems that Angbazo is back for a 5th year for RPI which definitely helps.  I think the Engineers will have another solid season, probably at least top 3.  Losing Black will hurt but there's one or two very good first years coming in.

I thought Ithaca would be returning Spellman and Stern for 5th years but it appears that both have moved on.  That leaves one starter returning for the Bombers.  Not ready to say it's a rebuild year since you can never count the Bombers out.

Skidmore graduated all but one starter, which includes Kupstas.  Time will tell how their incoming class shapes out.

Vassar it seems graduated literally every single senior from last year which included basically the entire starting rotation.

All SLU seniors graduated including 2 starters.  2 transfers incoming for the Saints, one who will likely immediately slot in for Engelhardt's spot, and on paper is an upgrade at the stretch 4.

Hobart actually just posted their roster, and looks like they graduated all seniors eligible for a 5th year this season.  Big shoes to fill with the graduation of Jackson Meshanic.

Union lost quite a few 5th years who did most of the scoring, and it appears Justin Regis also graduated.  The Garnet have the league rookie of the year returning along with at least one solid incoming recruit.

Not sure if Clarkson has any 5th year returners, but they do bring back some good players like Dalgety.  2nd leading scorer Ryan Miles-Ferguson might be coming back for a 5th but no confirmation.  Would like to see the Golden Knights put together a consistent slate of performances this season, they have the ability to beat anyone with their defense and 3 point shooting.

RIT, I just don't know even if they bring back 5th years. Until they play defense I don't think you can count on anything until proven otherwise. 

Bard brings back a lot including who I thought should have been rookie of the year.  Another coaching change so we'll see how they handle that.  Bard has had a couple good seasons in years past, but were never a threat to beat any team in the league like they are now.  There is no easy out in the Liberty League these days.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on September 29, 2023, 09:37:05 PM
for Bard, the Columbia game is an exhibition (real game for Columbia) and they are playing Russell Sage not Albany Pharmacy.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on September 30, 2023, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on September 29, 2023, 09:37:05 PM
for Bard, the Columbia game is an exhibition (real game for Columbia) and they are playing Russell Sage not Albany Pharmacy.
Good catch on Pharmacy/Sage. I started pulling this together several weeks ago when Pharmacy was listed on the schedule.  I missed the update to Sage.
Even though neither Bard or Columbia lists the game as an exhibition, what you say makes total sense.  If I remember correctly, the D3 limit is 25 games.  A real game would put Bard one over.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: ronk on September 30, 2023, 10:24:55 AM
 As an exhibition game for Bard, the Columbia game will take the place of one of their 2 allowed preseason scrimmages.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: warriorcat on September 30, 2023, 11:12:57 AM
Just an additional data point for St Lawrence on their OOC schedule.  They will definitely face an NCAA tournament team in their second game at the Williams Tournament because Worcester State was an NCAA team last year  It would be either Williams or Worcester for SLU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on September 30, 2023, 12:14:24 PM
Here is an updated list.  No guarantees that I did not miss something else.

Bard
SUNY Delhi
@ Columbia (exhibition)
@ Hudson Valley Classic - Mount St Mary
@ Hudson Valley Classic - SUNY New Paltz
Russell Sage
@ Old Westbury
@ Oglethorpe Tournament - Oglethorpe
@ Oglethorpe Tournament - Belhaven

Clarkson
Plattsburg State
@ Hilbert Tournament - Hilbert
@ Hilbert Tournament - Allegheny or Lancaster Bible
@ Oswego State
@ SUNY Potsdam
Vermont State Lyndon
SUNY Canton

Hobart
@ St John Fisher
Morrisville State
Brockport
@ Rochester
Wells
@ Florida Sunshine Shootout - Immaculata
@ Florida Sunshine Shootout - St. Scholastica

Ithaca
@ Cortland
@ Hamilton
@ Bridgewater State Tournament - Bridgewater State
@ Bridgewater State Tournament - WPI or Johnson & Wales
Utica
Rochester
@ Carnegie Melon

RIT
@ Wells
@ Crosstown Shootout - St. John Fisher
@ Crosstown Shootout - Nazareth
Alfred State
RIT Tournament - Gallaudet
RIT Tournament - Elmira
Rochester

RPI
@ Oswego State Tournament - Keuka College
@ Oswego State Tournament - Oswego State or SUNY Poly
@ SUNY Poly
@ SUNY Delhi
SUNY Cobleskill
@ Utica Classic - Connecticut College
@ Utica Classic - Utica or Colby Sawyer

St. Lawrence
@ SUNY Potsdam
Plattsburg State
@ Williams Tournament - St. Joseph's (LI)
@ Williams Tournament - Williams or Worcester State
@ Oswego State
SUNY Geneseo

Skidmore
SUNY New Paltz
@ SUNY Potsdam
@ Emmanuel Tournament - Wesleyan
@ Emmanuel Tournament - Emmanuel or Endicott
Hartwick
@ Middlebury

Union
Mount Saint Vincent
@ Sarah Lawrence
@ SUNY Cobleskill
Union Tournament - Elms
Union Tournament - Hartwick or SUNY Maritime
Farmingdale State

Vassar
Gallaudet
Haverford or SUNY Purchase
Williams
@ Hudson Valley Classic - Mount St. Mary
@ Hudson Valley Classic - SUNY New Paltz
@ Western Connecticut Tournament - The College of New Jersey
@ Western Connecticut Tournament - Western Connecticut State


edit - Added Hamilton and SUNY Delhi as 2023 NCAA tournament teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 30, 2023, 10:09:37 PM
Nicely done everyone. Scooby snacks for everyone!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 24, 2023, 06:27:24 PM
Well it's almost that time.  Board was not as active last season as it usually is, but wondered if anyone had preseason thoughts in terms of league polls, rosters etc.   League lost quite a bit due to graduation last spring, so league's fairly open from my perspective.  Would imagine SLU and RPI will be picked in the top 3 since they bring back the most.  Ithaca lost a ton, Vassar lost every single starter, Hobart lost 3 starters including the league POY and Skidmore lost 4 starters.     RPI has Angbazo back for a 5th year and should still be solid.  Losing Dom Black hurts but I can't imagine their defense suffers much if at all. 

SLU loses Trent Adamson and Will Engelhardt.  Adamson was an offensive and defensive threat and Engelhardt was clutch down the stretch last year.  SLU is hoping the few transfers pick up where those guys left off.  SLU will have the entire backcourt back which will help matters.

Will be curious to see how Clarkson fares.  Beat SLU twice last season and could have won some games against good competition (played Oswego incredibly close for 30 minutes) due to good defense and 3 point shooting.  They have a 5th year back in Ryan Miles-Ferguson and Dalgety is a very solid player. 

Can't imagine it gets much worse for Union after last season.  They lose a lot of scoring but have a pretty good incoming class and reigning league ROY. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on October 25, 2023, 05:33:55 PM
I believe only three of the All Liberty League players from last year are returning. Angbozo and Syroka are definite and I understand that Kevin Ryan is enrolled at RIT so I assume he will play.

ALL-LIBERTY LEAGUE FIRST TEAM
Trent Adamson, Sr., F, St. Lawrence
Dom Black, Gr., G, RPI
Tautvydas Kupstas, Sr., G, Skidmore
Jackson Meshanic, Sr., F, Hobart
Luka Radovich, Gr., F, Ithaca

ALL-LIBERTY LEAGUE SECOND TEAM
Jonny Angbazo, Sr., F, RPI
Riley Greene, Sr., G, Skidmore
Avni Mustafaj, Sr., G, Vassar
Trey Syroka, Jr., G, St. Lawrence
Logan Wendell, So., F, Ithaca

ALL-LIBERTY LEAGUE HONORABLE MENTION
Blake Gearhart, Sr., G, Clarkson
Jack Rothenberg, Sr., G/F, Vassar
Kevin Ryan, Sr., F, RIT
Greg Skoric, Sr., C/F, Skidmore
Patrick Walker, Sr., G/F, Hobart


edit - Logan Wendell returning, Kevin Ryan not returning
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2023, 07:40:08 PM
Wendell is back for Ithaca, he's only a Jr.   He's the only Ithaca starter that's returning.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on October 25, 2023, 07:49:19 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 25, 2023, 07:40:08 PM
Wendell is back for Ithaca, he's only a Jr.   He's the only Ithaca starter that's returning.
Good catch.  The Liberty League all league release mixed up both the position and class for Wendell and Radovich.  I only noticed part of the mistake.

https://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2023/2/27/liberty-league-unveils-2022-23-mens-basketball-awards.aspx (https://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2023/2/27/liberty-league-unveils-2022-23-mens-basketball-awards.aspx)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: thebear on October 25, 2023, 09:49:04 PM
Nice Job, You have inspired me to do the same for the SUNYAC.

Two notes:  SUNY Delhi made the tournament last year from the NAC, and Hamilton from the NESCAC - so I believe should be in red.

Thanks for all the hard work.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on October 25, 2023, 11:28:59 PM
Quote from: stlawus on October 25, 2023, 07:40:08 PM
Wendell is back for Ithaca, he's only a Jr.   He's the only Ithaca starter that's returning.
Quote from: thebear on October 25, 2023, 09:49:04 PM
Nice Job, You have inspired me to do the same for the SUNYAC.

Two notes:  SUNY Delhi made the tournament last year from the NAC, and Hamilton from the NESCAC - so I believe should be in red.

Thanks for all the hard work.

I was able to modify the the two posts.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 01, 2023, 06:33:42 PM
Looks like everyone has their rosters up besides Skidmore.  Thought RPI would bring back more 5th years than just Angbazo but he's the only one, so they have 2 starters returning from last year.   No Kevin Ryan for a 5th year at RIT either, and the other big man they played last year transferred to Case Western.   League got pretty decimated by graduation losses now that the rosters are in. Looks like the coaching change affected Bard as well since a couple key underclassmen from last year are not on the roster.

I've compiled a list of teams and the amount of starters lost from last season:

Vassar- 5
Ithaca- 4
Skidmore- 4
RPI- 3
Bard- 3
Union- 3
Hobart- 3
RIT- 2
SLU- 2
Clarkson- 2

60% of starters from last season have either graduated or moved on.  Some teams are rough figures as starting lineups changed, but for the most part it's accurate.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: mrhoopfan on November 07, 2023, 12:57:48 PM

Watched Vassar vs Yale exhibition match. A pretty much expected blowout by Yale (Vassar lost a ton from last year), but I left impressed with Vassar's two freshman guards from California, Fitzgerald and Lee. Both kids can should have an impact this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2023, 01:09:55 PM
If my math is correct, first post after a 13 year absence?  The more the merrier on here!     And agree w/r to Vassar. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: mrhoopfan on November 08, 2023, 10:01:56 AM

Returning players who I think will take a leap/more prominent role this year and be among the better players in the league:

Gavin Schauder- Ithaca
Dylan Matchett- RPI
Kenny Wilburn- RIT
Finn Cork- Clarkson



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on November 08, 2023, 10:53:29 AM
With several teams in action tonight and all of the rosters finally posted, here is a list of newcomers I found.  I included anyone listed as a freshman and a couple of sophomores who did not play last year due to injury and a few transfers I found.  If anyone knows of others, I will be happy to update the list.  Good luck to all.

* Updated with a few transfers and players who missed last season as a freshman.

Bard
Azikiwe Cuffy-Scott, Fr, G, 6-1, Brooklyn, N.Y. / Eastside Community
Misha Pryshchepa, Fr, F, 6-4, Kyiv, Ukraine / Dzherelo

Clarkson
Matt Toscano, Fr, G, 6-0, Katonah, NY / Fox Lane
Steve DeRegis, Fr, G, 6-0, Jamesville, NY / Christian Brothers Academy
Casey Montesano, Fr, G, 6-1, Penfield, NY / McQuaid Jesuit
Mark Munro, Fr, G, 6-1, Lisbon, Portugal / Hoosac School
Tyler Sanders, Fr, G, 6-1, Woodcliff Lake, NJ / Pascack Hills
Braeden Burns, Fr, F, 6-4, Jamesville, NY / Christian Brothers Academy
Ben Phillips, Fr, F, 6-7, Ballston Spa, NY / Ballston Spa

Hobart
Sam Pisanelli, Fr, G, 6-0, Pittsford, N.Y. / Pittsford Sutherland
Alex Moesch, Fr, G, 6-3, Chittenango, N.Y. / Chittenango
Jean Marc Togodgue, So, F, 6-5, Salisbury, Conn. / Salisbury School *
Dorian Paki, Fr, F, 6-7, Staten Island, N.Y. / St. Joseph by-the-Sea

Ithaca
Jaylon O'Neal, Fr, G, 6-1, Ilion, N.Y. / Central Valley
Jose Padilla, Fr, G, 6-1, Newton, Mass. / Newton
Evan Cabral, Fr, G, 6-2, Hackensack, N.J. / Don Bosco Prep
Alex Penders, Fr, F, 6-5, Foxborough, Mass. / Foxborough
Yoav Regev, Fr, G, 6-6, Tenafly, N.J. / Tenafly

RIT
Luke Granto, Fr, G, 6-0, Buffalo, NY / Canisius
Brody Brown, Fr, G, 6-3, Lowville, NY / Lowville
Zac Ditzel, Fr, G, 6-4, Rochester, NY / Fairport
Mihail Bossev, Fr, F, 6-5, Sofia, Bulgaria / Anglo-American School of Sofia
Nolan Smith, Fr, F, 6-6, Honeoye Falls, NY / Honeoye Falls-Lima

RPI
Yechiel Stewart, Fr, G, 6-2, Loganville, GA / Millbrook School
PJ Scalisi, Fr, G, 6-3, Staten Island, NY / Monsignor Farrell
TJ Halloran, Fr, G, 6-3, Westfield, NJ / Westfield
Chris Faughnan, So, F, 6-5, Hopewell Junction, NY / Our Lady of Lourdes
Harrison Neil, Fr, F, 6-5, Warwick, NJ / Warwick Valley
Andrew Deppe, Fr, F, 6-6, Hopedale, MA / Hopedale
Pat White, Fr, F, 6-6, Lakeville, MA / Tabor Academy
Nate Tawiah-Boateng, So, F, 6-7, Bronx, NY / Fordham Prep.

Skidmore
Nick Padilla, Fr, G, 5-8, Harlem, NY / Dwight School
Aidan Roy, Fr, G, 6-2, Larchmont, NY / Mamaroneck
Hakeem Daphnis, Fr, C, 6-3, Randolph, MA / Noble and Greenough School
Dillon McCafferty, Fr, G, 6-4, Chapel Hill, NC / East Chapel Hill
Siraj Saker, Fr, G/F, 6-4, San Francisco, CA / Urban School of San Francisco
Charlie Fantom, Fr, G, 6-5, Norwell, MA / Wilbraham & Monson Academy
Ethan Madeiros, Fr, F, 6-5, Hamilton, Bermuda / Millbrook School
Jack LaGarde, Fr, F/C, 6-8, Stow, MA / Nashoba Regional

SLU
Brayden Shepardson, Fr, G, 6-0, Little Falls, N.Y. / West Canada Valley
Troy McPherson, Fr, G, 6-0, Rochester, N.Y. / Brighton
Caden Mirliani, Fr, G, 6-1, Canton, Mass. / Canton
Lenny Buddington III, So, G, 6-2, Albany, N.Y. / Christian Brothers *
Colton Suriano, Fr, F, 6-5, New Hartford, N.Y. / New Hartford
Adam Dudzinski, So, F, 6-8, Syracuse, N.Y. / West Genesee *
Gop Arop, Sr, , 6-8, Syracuse, N.Y. / Bishop Grimes *

Union
Sam O'Toole, So, G, 6-1, Grafton, Mass. / The Winchendon School *
Tanner Tedesco, Fr, G, 6-1, Voorheesville, N.Y. / Cheshire Academy
Cameron Perez, Fr, G, 6-2, Bethel, Conn. / Immaculate
Jaden Jauregui, Fr, G, 6-2, Wallingford, Pa. / Strath Haven
Matthew Garside, Fr, G, 6-3, Kings Park, N.Y. / Kings Park
Christian Dufort, So, F, 6-5, Saratoga Springs, N.Y. / Saratoga Springs *
Jack Plesser, Fr, F, 6-5, Fairfield, Conn. / Fairfield Warde
Aidan Duffy, Fr, F, 6-7, North Kingstown, R.I. / Portsmouth Abbey
Brendan Reid, Fr, F, 6-7, Hamburg, N.Y. / St. Francis

Vassar
Avery Lee, Fr, G, 6-1, Los Angeles, CA / Palisades Charter
Shea Fitzgerald, Fr, G, 6-1, San Diego, CA / Cathedral Catholic
Kreekor Karageuzian, Fr, G, 6-2, San Francisco, CA / Saint Ignatius College Prep
Myles Stewart, Fr, G, 6-2, Chicago, IL / Depaul College Prep
Eric Zhang, Fr, G, 6-3, Lutherville-Timonium, MD / Dulaney
Collin France, Fr, G, 6-4, Brentwood, TN / University School of Nashville
Kale Elmhorst, Fr, F, 6-4, Lakeland, FL / Lakeland
Sebastian Medina, Fr, F, 6-4, Rye, NY / Rye
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 08, 2023, 02:09:01 PM
As for SLU Adam Dudzinski is a sophomore transfer from D2 Saint Rose and senior Gop Arop is a transfer from OCC who didn't play last year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on November 08, 2023, 02:31:54 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 08, 2023, 02:09:01 PM
As for SLU Adam Dudzinski is a sophomore transfer from D2 Saint Rose and senior Gop Arop is a transfer from OCC who didn't play last year.
Thanks.  I found a few more from other schools too.  Before I post a revised list, I have two questions on St. Lawrence.
Others I have found
Hobart, Jean Marc Togodgue, So. , F, 6-5, Salisbury, Conn. / Salisbury School  (injured last year)
Union, Sam O'Toole, So., G, 6-1, Grafton, Mass. / The Winchendon School (manager)
Union, Christian Dufort, So., F, 6-5, Saratoga Springs, N.Y. / Saratoga Springs (transfer from Ithaca)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 08, 2023, 02:36:21 PM
Arop as far as I'm aware is a senior, just listed incorrectly as a sophomore. Forgot about Buddington, he is a sophomore newcomer from Lehigh.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on November 08, 2023, 02:55:22 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 08, 2023, 02:09:01 PM
As for SLU Adam Dudzinski is a sophomore transfer from D2 Saint Rose and senior Gop Arop is a transfer from OCC who didn't play last year.
Quote from: stlawus on November 08, 2023, 02:36:21 PM
Arop as far as I'm aware is a senior, just listed incorrectly as a sophomore. Forgot about Buddington, he is a sophomore newcomer from Lehigh.
Thanks.  I updated the original post.  Changes have an * next to them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 08, 2023, 09:03:07 PM
Really solid opening win for Hobart against the defending Empire 8 champs.  SJF brought back most everyone that played a role in their 2nd half run last season, so very good W for the Statesmen who had to replace a lot of players.

Also good to see Clarkson get an opening win against Plattsburgh, their returning experience could give them a lift.

As far as I can tell, tonight was the largest margin of victory by SLU over Potsdam since at least 1968 which is how far the archive goes back on their website.  Adam Dudzinski is going to be a matchup issue for a lot of teams.


Also props to Union for starting things on the right track, doesn't feel right not having a competitive Union so hopefully they've turned things around.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Jersey42 on November 10, 2023, 08:45:13 PM
RPI opened their season with an 89-70 victory of Keuka in the first round of the Oswego tournament.  I did not see the broadcast, but hopefully I will get a chance to watch a replay.  From a look at the the box score, here are a few observations:
Tomorrow they face #6 Oswego in what will be a very tough test for a young Engineer squad.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 10, 2023, 08:53:10 PM
I watched the game.  RPI looked like they were going to win by 60, they were up 35-10 to start the game.  Keuka got it back within 9 at halftime, and had it within 4 early in the 2nd half before getting worn down by RPI.  Keuka had pretty much no size and RPI exploited that pretty well. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2023, 10:05:21 PM
Pretty good night for the Liberty League.  Only losses were against top 25 teams, and both were competitive games.  Clarkson played Oswego tough last year for 30 minutes before running out of gas, glad to see them put up a very respectable performance against the Lakers tonight.  Vassar also was pretty competitive with Williams. 

3-1 against the SUNYAC and all wins not very close.  Looked like Hobart played a physical game against Brockport shooting 35 free throws.  SLU with the largest margin of victory over Plattsburgh since 2001.  Adam Dudzinski has been a matchup nightmare in both games so far.  Hamilton turned the ball over 19 times against Ithaca who are a somewhat surprising 2-0.  Not totally shocked given that their opponents suffered serious graduation losses but that also applied to Ithaca as well.  Their top scorer returning from last year taking a step forward with 2 straight 20 point games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 18, 2023, 03:39:15 PM
SLU's hanging with Williams after a half, which is encouraging.  They had some major offensive regression against St. Joseph's yesterday, but their defense has traveled so far.   SLU is one of the few teams that can match Williams' size but the Ephs are doing well to get it into the paint for their big men who are making good shots.    Hope the Saints can stay competitive.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 18, 2023, 04:53:08 PM
SLU was 4 minutes away from a major upset but Williams stifled the SLU offense to force overtime and prevail.  Thought there were some absolute BS home cooking calls made against SLU that included an offensive foul at a critical moment, but you still have to put the ball in the hoop in the end.  Of course a guy off the bench goes 5 for 5 from three.  SLU proved they can hang with the best.  SLU probably wins if Syroka doesn't have an extremely uncharacteristic off game.   Doesn't get any easier having to play Oswego in 9 days.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 18, 2023, 10:21:04 PM
Bard beats New Paltz  ??? ???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: nescac1 on November 19, 2023, 08:11:41 AM
Thoughts on St. Lawrence - incredibly smart and tough on defense. Get back incredibly well and give nothing in transition.  Adjust well for opposing personnel.  The zone gives up pretty good three point looks on the wings and corners (which Williams did a poor job of hitting other than McGraw who feasts on those).  Very hard to drive to the hole successfully between the big guy and all those bodies in the paint. 

Offensively St Lawrence did a good job getting points in transition but really struggled at times to convert in the half court offense.  I was surprised they didn't run more stuff through Dudzinski.  Williams had no one to match up with him given the guys we are missing up front, he is so long, can shoot, drive and pass.  But there were possessions he barely touched the ball even though there was not an a great matchup for him. Everytime he was aggressive I was very nervous.  He should have a big career for SLU.  With only one senior starter SLU should be a top tier LL team for two years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 19, 2023, 09:03:15 AM
SLU should be fine for a few years, but losing the floor general Syroka after this year will hurt a bit.  They are prone to giving up open looks but Williams moved the ball better than most teams. There was one possession in particular in the second half where I counted about 5 or six passes in the span of 3 seconds.  Half court offense has been an issue the last few years, so a big and physical team can take advantage of that like Williams did.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: mrhoopfan on November 19, 2023, 09:32:35 AM
Quote from: stlawus on November 18, 2023, 10:21:04 PM
Bard beats New Paltz  ??? ???

Bard defends alot better this year, kudos to the new coach. Previous years they ran a press that led to a ton of open layups. Liberty League should be VERY interesting this year. No cupcakes.....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: nescac1 on November 20, 2023, 04:03:06 PM
Gotcha, stlawus.  Always hard to make an assessment of a team based on one game (although you did a very good job breaking Williams down both here an on the NESCAC board)!  Syroka apparently didn't have his typical game, just like some Williams guys were better or worse than usual.  But I do like the Macaulays, they are both tough two-way players who can beat you in a variety of ways (especially Gavin who played way bigger than his size), Cowan seems like a guy who is still reaching his upside and will only get better over the next year plus, and as I noted I am a big fan of Dudzinski's potential as well, that foursome all looked very good and nice for you that none are seniors. 

Good luck against Oswego -- they are looking like a true top-tier national title contender this year!

P.S. Syroka has another year of eligibility if he chooses to use it, right?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 20, 2023, 04:15:07 PM
This is Syroka's final year.  He was a freshman at Niagara in 2019-2020 and I believe took the covid year off.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: nescac1 on November 20, 2023, 04:25:47 PM
Ahh, gotcha. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 27, 2023, 07:44:01 PM
Another great effort by SLU against a top 10 opponent on the road.  2nd game in a row a team's 6th man comes off the bench and throws in 5 threes to win them the game.  SLU's size bothered Oswego all game, but the chucked in threes from 28 feet and solid defense made the difference for the Lakers.  Holding Sparks and Anderson to a combined 9 of 28 is no easy effort.  But Oswego held the Macaulay twins to a combined 3 of 17 so all credit to the Lakers.

A testament to Downs' coaching is the development of 6'10" Andrew Cowan.  Guys that size in dIII are usually long term projects and Cowan was no different.  Came in as a freshman a bit unbalanced and clunky, but he's blossoming into a legit big man with a good offensive game and tremendous rim protecting prowess.   He altered a lot of shots that the Lakers are used to scoring uncontested.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 01, 2023, 09:21:08 PM
Pretty typical chaotic first weekend.  RPI blitzes SLU, which I was not entirely surprised about given what happened last year, but every year there's a game where SLU's opponent has a three point shooting performance that probably won't be replicated the rest of the season.  RPI played great defense forcing Syroka to resort to hero ball antics which always leads to a SLU loss, and tonight was no different.

RIT almost came back from a pretty big deficit but Bard got them by a basket.  Same goes for Clarkson who are now 5-1 after a back and forth battle with Skidmore.  Vassar misses some brutal free throws at the end to lose to Ithaca.  Union showed life for a half but Hobart was too much. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on December 01, 2023, 11:03:04 PM
Moving on from Hobart football to basketball and hockey season. Pleasantly surprised by Hobart's potential after watching their undefeated start to the season. Tonight they completely dominated the second half against Union on the road. Vassar tomorrow night
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 02, 2023, 06:09:13 PM
Hobart is getting the wins and shares the top spot with a 2-0 league record.  They're playing with fire a bit by relying on 2nd half comeback wins of late, but wins are wins and you take them any way you can.

What a trip for Clarkson, sweeping Skidmore and RPI.  I've said the last two years that Clarkson has the ability to compete with anyone, they just weren't consistent about it.  They've found consistency now with some 5th year players and excellent 3 point shooting.   RPI left in their starters for extended minutes last night against the SLU bench when the game was already over.    Saw some heavy legs for the Engineers today.  Wonder if Gilbride is regretting that move now.  It's always nice to get revenge on the team that beat you 3 times the year before which included the conference championship game, but you'd think one would be a bit more cognizant of the fact you're playing a back to back.    High stakes game in hand Wednesday with Clarkson visiting SLU.  Can't wait.

And how about the Raptors.  2-0 in the league after an OT win against Ithaca today.  If Bard is beating Ithaca then the league should be on notice that this is not a downstate road trip of old.

Trey Syroka's 7 steal performance gives SLU their most comfortable win against Skidmore in close to 10 years.  Skidmore's freshmen look like they're going to develop into solid players, but they still lack depth much like last season.  Good bounce back win for the Saints after yesterday.  As I previously mentioned, Wednesday is shaping out to be a pretty good route 11 rivalry game.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on December 06, 2023, 09:39:05 PM
It's a Bard world and we're all just living in it, apparently
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 06, 2023, 10:28:16 PM
With Ithaca beating Rochester rather handily I wonder what new and creative ways the UR coach-I mean committee chair will come up with to get them in this year.

Looks like Skidmore's youth cost them at Vassar tonight, following along on live stats they looked like they were up most the game and then lost by a possession in the end. 


SLU-Clarkson was a typical North Country rivalry game.  Extremely physical and tenacious defense.   Clarkson coach was working the refs the whole game which was pretty annoying, especially when they let Clarkson get away with everything in the first half.   Clarkson is definitely passing the eye test, great defensive team than can shoot threes from anywhere.  Everytime SLU pushed the lead to 9 or 10 Clarkson would throw in a 3 way behind the arc at the top of the key.   Depth could be an issue but so far they look the part.    Clarkson had no answer for Andrew Cowan who had the best game of his career with an 18pt 13reb performance which included a huge offensive board in the final minute.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on December 09, 2023, 09:40:11 PM
Attended Hobart-RPI game as Hobart goes to 7-0. Both teams were pretty fast and athletic, played good defense and shot well at times ,but not exactly "lights out". Very impressed with Aidan Rodgers improvement over last year as PG, he's fast, got a few steals , hit a couple of 3 pointers when RPI started to get back in the game. Carter Meshanic is not his brother  Jackson but is very solid. Healy rounds out the top 3 scorers and has a nice game and is ice on the line. Moesch, a Freshman, had 17 points in 18 minutes with 7 rebounds and should be getting more playing time. This team needs to gel more, but I was impressed with its potential. I think they were picked for third, which seems about right, but I think they will improve over the season and could make it to the NCAA tournament if they keep improving and stay healthy .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on December 19, 2023, 03:14:03 PM
Couple commitments have been landed by the league.  From what I can gather so far:

RPI- Tucker Tharpe, 6'6" F, Champlain Valley Union HS VT
Skidmore- Will Ameden, 6'4" F, Burr & Burton Academy VT
Bard- Aiden Dunlap, 6'5" F, The Gunston School MD
Ithaca- Michael Porter, 6'2" G, Scituate HS MA
SLU- Pat Mulholland, 6'2" G, Natick HS MA
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 20, 2024, 04:17:20 PM
We are back just in time for the conference tournament, excellent timing on the d3hoops staff part. 

One of the more wilder Liberty League seasons that I can remember.  I'll try to pack in all my observations in a hopefully not too long winded post.

We saw this year in division 1 just how insane the home and away splits were, and that was no different for the Liberty League.  Hobart and SLU who finished 1st and 2nd respectively, were a combined 23-0 at home this season.  The tie breaker ended up coming down to the h2h results against Union.  Hobart was definitely a great coaching job by Stefan Thompson.  They lost the league player of the year from last year but still put together a very impressive 20-5 regular season.  They don't do anything out of the ordinary, they just don't really make any mistakes.  The Statesmen are a great rebounding team like always but played timely defense and got clutch 3 point shooting, especially from one of the league's better first year's in Alex Moesch.

SLU finished with the same exact regular season record as last year, and as previously mentioned missed out on the 1 seed due to tiebreakers.  They played with a target on their backs being the defending champs, and like Downs said in preseason pretty much got everyone's best game, especially on the road. The story this year for the Saints was their patented 2-3 zone defense.  SLU is 4th in the nation in scoring defense and #1 in the country in opponent field goal percentage. The other part of the story for SLU is transfer Adam Dudzinski.  "Dudz" was a cold blooded assassin from the perimeter this year, shooting 54% from three, good for tops in the nation. At 6'8" playing the wing he is a true unicorn in world of division 3, and the Saints are very lucky to have him.

RPI was also a bit of a surprise, but at the same time not completely shocking due to the coaching prowess of Gilbride.  Like every year the Engineers' pack line defense carried them throughout the season finishing top 10 in the country in scoring defense.  They got a lot of leadership and experience this year from graduate student Johnny Angbazo, and have some really nice first years that are only going to get better.  Nate Tawiah-Boateng who missed all of last season due to injury looks like he's also going to keep blossoming. 

Union was a huge shocker in my opinion. Chris Murphy would definitely deserve coach of the year.  They lost a slew of seniors and 5th years from a team that finished 2nd to last in the previous season.  There were several key players on this year's team that barely played the previous seasons but exploded onto the scene this year.  This includes Luke McGarrity who shot a gaudy 45% from three.  Union scored 91 points at home against RPI and got extremely clutch 3 point shooting at home against SLU to give them 2 big wins against the top of the conference.

RIT was also another excellent coaching job.  From not making the playoffs last year to a tiebreaker position at 5th place this year.  McVean really revamped the Tigers defense this year, as they greatly improved on that end and got typically excellent perimeter scoring to complement it. RIT's forwards were particularly impressive on the offensive end from the games I saw, shooting a very high percentage.

Bard: Coach Sloan also has an incredibly strong case for coach of the year.  Bard was dead last the previous season, and had a shot at 4th place if not for tie breakers.  Senior leadership was the name of the game for the Raptors, as their experience paid heavy dividends.  Elliot Harris is one of the best 3 point shooters in the country and Rowan Heinze has some of the best post moves I have seen on a Liberty League center in quite a long time. The Raptors defense dramatically improved under Sloan and has kept them in most games. 

Now for the bottom 4 of the conference.  I've rambled quite a bit so I'll keep this a little more concise. 

Vassar's finish was not particularly surprising as they lost all 5 starters from last season.  The Brewers do have a very impressive first year in Shea Fitzgerald and still got some really good wins this season including at home against SLU and a sweep of RIT.   

Clarkson was a bit disappointing.  Some really good wins against teams like Hobart and RPI, but just not consistent enough to bring things across the finish line. They are very well coached and will likely have both the league player and rookie of the year in Ryan Miles-Ferguson and Braeden Burns, respectively.  Depth seemed to be the biggest issue for the Golden Knights this season.  Ferguson's loss will hurt but the remaining 4 starters will be back. 

By normal standards this would have been an extremely disappointing season for Ithaca, but it's not really too surprising given their personnel losses from last year.  A ton of 5th years and seniors that all had a lot of playing time is extremely hard to replace at this level.  Like every year their offense was one of the best,  but they just weren't consistent enough on defense.  Couple promising first years on this team so I'd expect them to be back in the thick of things next year.

It was a very long and adversity filled season for Skidmore. Aside from losing almost every single starter from last year, Coach Burke had a house fire right before the season started, and the Thoroughbreds lost potential rookie of the year Charlie Fantom for the season only a few games in.  They had other injuries to the starting lineup that was already filled with first years and sophomores.  To Coach Burke's credit, in the penultimate game of the season at SLU I did not see a team that was dejected or feeling sorry for themselves, they still looked like a team that enjoyed each other's company and played hard to the end.  It was a tough season but Skidmore is only going to keep improving. 

Award predictions:

COY: Chris Murphy, Union. Sloan could easily get it as well.

POY: Ryan Miles-Ferguson, Gr, Clarkson
ROY: Braeden Burns, FY, Clarkson
DPOY: Trey Syroka, Sr, SLU

First team:

Ryan Miles-Ferguson, Gr, Clarkson
Logan Wendell, Jr, Ithaca
Adam Dudzinski, So, SLU
Trey Syroka, Sr, SLU
Johnny Angbazo, Gr, RPI

2nd team:

Tristan Wennersten, Sr, Ithaca
Pat Healy, Jr, Hobart
Rowan Heinze, Sr,  Bard
Isaiah Washington, Sr, Hobart
Braeden Burns, FY, Clarkson

Honorable mention:

Shea Fitzgerald, FY, Vassar
Lazaros Panagiotounis, Sr, Bard
Matt Caggiano, Sr, RIT


 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 20, 2024, 09:01:38 PM
Both home teams win tonight.  Good comeback win for RIT to get their first playoff win in a long time. 

Bard's lack of playoff experience was quite evident tonight against RPI.  Not a great shot selection in the 2nd half, but RPI played very solid defense. 

So on Friday we have a somewhat local rivalry matchup with Hobart taking on RIT and RPI heading right back up to SLU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 23, 2024, 08:47:47 AM
Stlawus, thanks for restarting the discussion in time for the playoffs. I've been very happy with the job Coach Thompson has done this year as this is the "tightest"Hobart  team we have seen recently. After losing Jackson M, he had a real challenge to mold this team , which plays as a well balanced squad and does not give up.
 As far as the tournament is concerned, anything can happen. Relying on defense(SLU is excellent) is a good strategy as well as ball possession , but I've noticed each of these teams can have a cold shooting night , and when that happens, they struggle. As far as Hobart, they will get their rebounds but they must defend well and hopefully have a good shooting tournament. They are good from the foul line which is always tournament friendly, and when Healy and Moesch hit their threes this is a tough team to beat.I'd love to see a Hobart -SLU final at Bristol, but any of the final four teams could come away with the tourney title. Good luck to the SLU boys tonight. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 23, 2024, 08:48:03 PM
Fitting that both home teams win tonight.  Hobart in control wire to wire shooting at an extremely high clip.  Last year's run to the semis paid dividends, looked like some of that experience was at play tonight. 

Things looked pretty dicey to start for the Saints tonight with RPI jumping out to a 17-4 lead, but SLU's defense wore the Engineers out and exploded to a double digit lead in the 2nd half.  Extremely physical game, plenty of blood and bruises in this one. 

Total tossup Sunday as far as I'm concerned, I would not be shocked with any sort of result as far as margin of victory.  In a vacuum the loser on Sunday would have had a decent shot at the bubble, but alas, this year is not in a vacuum with some of the conference tournament upsets so far. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 23, 2024, 09:12:02 PM
Hobart fans were pumped tonight , the most noise I've heard in years. They played defense, shot well when they needed to and rebounding was sound. RIT had a ton of fans but not much to cheer for as Hobart dominated almost all night. I think Hobart stands will be packed Sunday with Colleges and Geneva fans(entry is free). The Statesmen are ready to play the Saints and even though Hobart has home court, I think SLU defense might be a challenge for the Statesmen. It should be a great game and I'm expecting a close exciting contest that will be a heartbreaker for the loser.
   Great weekend with Hobart hosting the LL basketball, the reigning NCAA D3 Hockey Champs have a NEHC playoff game tomorrow. Also, Cornell lax on Tuesday in Ithaca ....This is a great sports time as Winter sports wind down and Spring sports begin.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 25, 2024, 04:03:59 PM
Home and away splits were the story of the season, and it was fitting that it was the main factor today.  Nothing but kudos to the Statesmen for defending home court.  They made the tough shots that kept SLU at arms length the whole game.   Most SLU losses the last 3 years were a result of poor free throw shooting, and while that was not the only reason it was a big reason today.   The Statesmen forced SLU to take low percentage shot attempts all game, and SLU repeatedly took their bait.  There was a brief window of opportunity with about 2:30 left for SLU, but multiple bricks and missed free throws sealed it. 

Well played to Hobart who were poised and never panicked and used home court to great advantage. Nothing but a tip of the cap to the Statesmen and I wish them the best of luck next weekend.  The Liberty League has gotten the shaft in NCAA selections the past few years as far as first round opponents, so hoping Hobart gets a good draw. Commentator for Hobart is good but I really don't know why he thinks Hobart will host, but I'd definitely love that to be the case.   

Still a great season for SLU.  Hard to repeat in this league, and they played well despite the targets on their backs.   Future is still bright for this group, they bring back 4 starters and still have a decent amount of freshmen and sophs coming back along with a veteran starting core.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 25, 2024, 05:17:09 PM
Quote from: stlawus on February 25, 2024, 04:03:59 PMHome and away splits were the story of the season, and it was fitting that it was the main factor today.  Nothing but kudos to the Statesmen for defending home court.  They made the tough shots that kept SLU at arms length the whole game.   Most SLU losses the last 3 years were a result of poor free throw shooting, and while that was not the only reason it was a big reason today.   The Statesmen forced SLU to take low percentage shot attempts all game, and SLU repeatedly took their bait.  There was a brief window of opportunity with about 2:30 left for SLU, but multiple bricks and missed free throws sealed it. 

Well played to Hobart who were poised and never panicked and used home court to great advantage. Nothing but a tip of the cap to the Statesmen and I wish them the best of luck next weekend.  The Liberty League has gotten the shaft in NCAA selections the past few years as far as first round opponents, so hoping Hobart gets a good draw. Commentator for Hobart is good but I really don't know why he thinks Hobart will host, but I'd definitely love that to be the case.   

Still a great season for SLU.  Hard to repeat in this league, and they played well despite the targets on their backs.   Future is still bright for this group, they bring back 4 starters and still have a decent amount of freshmen and sophs coming back along with a veteran starting core.   
Great game to watch as a Statesman fan, as they win the LL title for the first time in 10 years. SLU has some great talent but were behind rather early that put them in a hole. Hobart moved the ball well on offense to counter the long arm defense of SLU and Hobart played one of its better games defensively as they were aggressive from the start. Having home court in a game like this is critical as the Hobart athletes/fans showed up in big numbers to support Bball . I think every hockey player was there, as they should pack the Cooler for the Conference Championship next Saturday against Skidmore.
    I wore the same orange Hobart sweatshirt I wore to the Springfield game we won in the NCAA tourney before Covid shut us down, and it brought luck again. I'm sure we'll get a lousy pairing for the tournament and I'd be surprised if we get a home game as the LL usually gets screwed....but we'll find out tomorrow.
    Great turnout by the SLU fans today, they should be proud of the team and their program. Today was just not their day, but I'm sure they'll be ready to go next year, and probably be the favorites.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 26, 2024, 09:36:30 AM
I watched portions of the D3hoops show yesterday and they are projecting a Hobart matchup with Newport News in the first round which would be ironic since Hobart was scheduled to play NN in 2020 after they beat Springfield before the Covid shutdown. We'll see what the committee actually determines.SLU was one of the last few teams eliminated from PoolC , so it looks like just one team from the LL .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on February 26, 2024, 01:58:41 PM
CNU it is. They are not the CNU of last year but still a tall task for Hobart who will be up for the challenge. Two years in a row the LL will play the C2C in the first round. Also given Stockton's selection with 10 losses it suffices to say I am completely done with this committee. Can't wait for it to be a completely new group of members.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2024, 02:00:15 PM

I'll most likely be at Widener Friday - it's the closest site to my house - would love to meet any/all of you who make the trip!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 27, 2024, 07:48:00 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2024, 02:00:15 PMI'll most likely be at Widener Friday - it's the closest site to my house - would love to meet any/all of you who make the trip!
Ryan, thanks for all your work at D3hoops. Four years ago I went to Springfield to see Covid eliminate Hobart from the tournament after they beat a #14 and a #17 ranked St.Joes(CT) and Springfield in 2 exciting games. Interestingly, our next opponent was going to be CNU. Well four years later we finally get to play them. While LL basketball might not be expected to do much in the NCAAs, this Hobart team could surprise this pod. They rebound well, played energized defense against SLU and can be a streaky team from behind the arc. Coach Thompson is a Hobart grad that was a great point guard and has done a fantastic job with the talent this year. Hopefully the Widener rims will be kind to them.
  I won't see you in PA, because we've been fortunate with our Winter sports this year and I'll be attending the Hobart Hockey NEHC Championship game in Geneva as we hopefully advance and repeat as National Champions.
  Have a great weekend and hopefully my Statesmen will surprise you.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on February 28, 2024, 10:45:44 AM
Congrats to the All Liberty League :

ALL-LIBERTY LEAGUE FIRST TEAM:
Jonny Angbazo, Gr., F, RPI
Adam Dudzinski, So., F, St. Lawrence
Pat Healy, Jr., G, Hobart
Ryan Miles-Ferguson, Gr., G, Clarkson
Logan Wendell, Jr., G, Ithaca
 
ALL-LIBERTY LEAGUE SECOND TEAM:
Avery Eugster, Sr., F, RPI
Carter Meshanic, Jr., G/F, Hobart
Lazaros Panagiotounis, Sr., G, Bard
Trey Syroka, Sr., G, St. Lawrence
Triston Wennsersten, Sr., G, Ithaca
 
ALL-LIBERTY LEAGUE HONORABLE MENTION:
Brock Bowen, Jr., G, RIT
Chase Dickens, Jr., G, RIT
Aidan Rodgers, Jr., G, Hobart
Shea Fitzgerald, FY, G, Vassar
Tanner Tedesco, FY, G, Union

Also to Coach Thompson and his staff for being named Coaches of the Year. Let's beat CNU!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on March 01, 2024, 12:05:21 PM
Good luck to my Statesmen tonight against CNU. Just like four years ago nobody is picking you.....then you won the first 2 games only to be shut down by COVID. Good Defense, Ball Control, accurate shooting from the field and on the line and don't be intimidated by their BIGS. GOBART!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 05, 2024, 02:54:34 PM
2nd year in a row the LL champ gets paired with a C2C team and bows out in the first round. Statesmen started slow but looked like they were going to make a game of it. CNU's experience was just too much.  Despite all the noise about their personnel losses and problems they were poised down the stretch and played their way to the 2nd weekend. Nothing for Hobart to hang their heads about. A great season that surpassed expectations given the loss of Jackson Meshanic.  They'll lose a couple starters but should be fine for next year. Like SLU this year they'll get everyone's best game next year which is an added challenge. I foresee Hobart, SLU and RPI being top 3 preseason favorites again next season
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 13, 2024, 10:09:12 PM
Plenty of LL players to go around in the all-region teams.  Angbazo gets LL player of the year and NABC Region 3 first team but no honors on any of the 3 teams on d3hoops.com, what a shocker /s. Glad to see Ryan Miles-Ferguson get his due in the all region selections as well as getting the chance to play in the all star game. 

Now that the dust has settled, I'm thinking the top of the standings next year could very well be the same 3 teams from this year in any order.  RPI losing Angbazo will hurt, but they still have a good amount of impressive underclassmen.  Hobart is losing their glue guy and best defensive player in Washington along with center Lucey, but otherwise bring back everyone else.  SLU losing Syroka will also hurt given his defense and ball handling, but they bring back all the remaining 4 starters.   That's tentatively at least, since you never know with the portal action especially as it relates to Dudzinski's stellar season and player profile.

This year definitely had some of the most parity I've seen, especially as it related to home and road splits.  SLU and Hobart were a combined 26-0 at home, don't know if the top two teams ever ran the table at home before.  There were surprises like Union who got production out of players in their senior year who hadn't done much their first 3 years, along with Bard making the playoffs with a new coach.  I was not shocked to see Ithaca take a step back, they lost a ton of 5th years and seniors from last year. One of the downsides of having 5th year players is that you can miss out on recruits that you might normally get, so I'm interested to see what Ithaca does next year one season removed from an uncharacteristic down season.

Clarkson is losing the league's leading scorer, but still bring everyone else back including who I thought should have been rookie of the year. We saw this year that Hobart losing the league's leading scorer from last season had no effect, so if Clarkson can add some depth pieces it would be extremely disappointing if they miss the playoffs again next year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 21, 2024, 03:37:25 PM
Completely missed the announcement of McVean's retirement a few days ago.  40 years, what a run.  Don't know if you'll ever seen someone at one institution for that long again.   RIT has to now replace both the men's and women's HC position.  Should be a pretty sought after job.