MBB: Ohio Athletic Conference

Started by Scots Hoops Fan, March 14, 2005, 09:32:28 AM

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sac

Terrible news out of Muskingum.
http://www.zanesvilletimesrecorder.com/story/news/local/2017/12/21/crash-closes-portion-interstate-70/974094001/

Scored his 1000th career point yesterday, prayers to his family and teammates.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Very sad news... we published a short time later: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2017/12/muskingum-student-death (taking info from the Zaynesville paper).
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

gordonmann

Let's put something a little happier at the top of this page.

Here's a good story about one of the all-time greats in the OAC and Division III basketball. This should brighten up the mood for Otterbein fans and maybe everyone else, too.

http://d3hoops.com/columns/around-the-nation/2017-18/gibbs-barkley-abroad

Onward on, John Carroll

During Hoopsville yesterday, Dave and Ryan seemed to agree that John Carroll is a team that simply tries to outscore its opponents and whose defense is lax and unable to get a stop when it needs a stop.  I see things through, admittedly, "Blue and Gold glasses" from time to time but I think that is completely inaccurate.   I feel like JCU plays excellent in-your-face defense from baseline to baseline and that its defense causes the pace of play to be so fast and results in typically high scoring games. I do not think that JCU is a team that tries to get more shots up than its opponents or takes a "3 for 2" approach. I think they just play extremely quick and extremely hard and force the pace of play.  They don't want to beat teams 100-98 . . .they want to put up a bunch of points AND shut you down defensively.

Admittedly, that full-court press will result in some easy ones at the other end from time to time but not that often.  In fact, I feel like their transition from the press to the half court defense has been better this year than it has been for many years. 

Let me know, as an OAC fan who watches us play annually, if you agree with me or if you think Dave and Ryan are more accurate.  Those comments irritated me but, of course, I could be wrong/could be a homer.

sac

I saw them play in December against Hope, I didn't find them particularly great in half court defense.


One measure is eFG%  (FG +(.5(3ptFG))/FGA,  JCU defensively allows opponents to shoot 51.1%, that's probably above average to the good side  (as an example Hope is a bad defensive team and gives up 56%), but I think most defenses we would call "great" are under 50%.


JCU's defensive  turnover rate is very high, perhaps one of the highest in D3, as of last week they were getting their opponents to turn the ball over 25% of possessions.  Normal is around 18% for D3.    Trouble with turnover rate, is you really don't get a high rate without pressing so its difficult to know how much is from pressing, how much is from half court defense.  Having watched them, most is probably from pressing.

JCU is tough because of the style, pace, the constant pressing, pressure and traps.  The waves of substitutions.  JCU's pace is almost 90 possessions per game, thats running up and down the floor almost 40 times more than a "normal" game.  They also do attempt a lot of 3's at 31 per game.  Maybe not "3 for 2", but its a high number of attempts.


It would probably take breaking down JCU on film to really figure out how good their half-court defense is because box scores won't tell you what was transition and what was a true half court possession very well



Fifth and Putnam

Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on January 22, 2018, 09:36:35 AM
During Hoopsville yesterday, Dave and Ryan seemed to agree that John Carroll is a team that simply tries to outscore its opponents and whose defense is lax and unable to get a stop when it needs a stop.  I see things through, admittedly, "Blue and Gold glasses" from time to time but I think that is completely inaccurate.   I feel like JCU plays excellent in-your-face defense from baseline to baseline and that its defense causes the pace of play to be so fast and results in typically high scoring games. I do not think that JCU is a team that tries to get more shots up than its opponents or takes a "3 for 2" approach. I think they just play extremely quick and extremely hard and force the pace of play.  They don't want to beat teams 100-98 . . .they want to put up a bunch of points AND shut you down defensively.

Admittedly, that full-court press will result in some easy ones at the other end from time to time but not that often.  In fact, I feel like their transition from the press to the half court defense has been better this year than it has been for many years. 

Let me know, as an OAC fan who watches us play annually, if you agree with me or if you think Dave and Ryan are more accurate.  Those comments irritated me but, of course, I could be wrong/could be a homer.

Having seen JCU a number of times this year, I think it's a mix of both. JCU is extremely difficult to play against. You know coming into the office you're going to face 40 minutes of full court press and they know full well they're going to give up some easy baskets from time to time doing that. They also score a ton of baskets turning teams over before crossing the timeline and converting easy layups. I don't know how many times I have seen JCU score 5-6 points in a 10 second span off that press, and if you don't have steady ball handlers who can work the ball up the court...things can avalanche on you in a hurry.

I don't agree with the notion that JCU attempts to outscore opponents and are lax on defense. I think their style and pace of play lends to more points being scored by both teams.


Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on January 22, 2018, 09:36:35 AM
During Hoopsville yesterday, Dave and Ryan seemed to agree that John Carroll is a team that simply tries to outscore its opponents and whose defense is lax and unable to get a stop when it needs a stop.  I see things through, admittedly, "Blue and Gold glasses" from time to time but I think that is completely inaccurate.   I feel like JCU plays excellent in-your-face defense from baseline to baseline and that its defense causes the pace of play to be so fast and results in typically high scoring games. I do not think that JCU is a team that tries to get more shots up than its opponents or takes a "3 for 2" approach. I think they just play extremely quick and extremely hard and force the pace of play.  They don't want to beat teams 100-98 . . .they want to put up a bunch of points AND shut you down defensively.

Admittedly, that full-court press will result in some easy ones at the other end from time to time but not that often.  In fact, I feel like their transition from the press to the half court defense has been better this year than it has been for many years. 

Let me know, as an OAC fan who watches us play annually, if you agree with me or if you think Dave and Ryan are more accurate.  Those comments irritated me but, of course, I could be wrong/could be a homer.

Let me clarify - it's not that I don't think JCU plays defense, I'm yet unclear if they play enough defense to be a real contender on a larger scale.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Onward on, John Carroll

Fair enough, Ryan. I would say this, though.  In watching this team for nearly two decades, I become most concerned in close games not with their ability to get a stop when they need it, but rather, to get a bucket in the half court offense when they need one or when they are forced into their half court offense due to the pace of the game or the situation in the game (e.g. out of a time out or a side out situation of another kind).  I think their defense is very good both full court and half court.

F&P makes a great point also.  The pace of play leads to so many more possessions.  In essence, John Carroll's 90-80 wins or 95-88 losses are like most teams 75-70 wins or 78-72 losses.  The points are just coming faster not because of a lack of quality defense but, rather, because of the style of defense dictating the quicker pace.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2018, 01:35:20 PM
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on January 22, 2018, 09:36:35 AM
During Hoopsville yesterday, Dave and Ryan seemed to agree that John Carroll is a team that simply tries to outscore its opponents and whose defense is lax and unable to get a stop when it needs a stop.  I see things through, admittedly, "Blue and Gold glasses" from time to time but I think that is completely inaccurate.   I feel like JCU plays excellent in-your-face defense from baseline to baseline and that its defense causes the pace of play to be so fast and results in typically high scoring games. I do not think that JCU is a team that tries to get more shots up than its opponents or takes a "3 for 2" approach. I think they just play extremely quick and extremely hard and force the pace of play.  They don't want to beat teams 100-98 . . .they want to put up a bunch of points AND shut you down defensively.

Admittedly, that full-court press will result in some easy ones at the other end from time to time but not that often.  In fact, I feel like their transition from the press to the half court defense has been better this year than it has been for many years. 

Let me know, as an OAC fan who watches us play annually, if you agree with me or if you think Dave and Ryan are more accurate.  Those comments irritated me but, of course, I could be wrong/could be a homer.

Let me clarify - it's not that I don't think JCU plays defense, I'm yet unclear if they play enough defense to be a real contender on a larger scale.

Same here... I wasn't saying they don't play defense, I'm saying they don't seem to play enough defense to stop teams when they need to. They allow a LOT of points for a team that is that aggressive and thus, seem to have to outscore opponents instead of getting key stops. They lost to an average-at-best Hope squad and allowed Hope to pour in over 100. That is suspect to me.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

sac

Bad reasoning......Hope is actually a good offensive team, having scored over 85 points in 9 games.  Hope is a poor defensive team.  JCU had a tough day shooting the ball, fell behind and wound up sending Hope the FT line  41 times.   18 in last 10 minutes as they attempted to extend the game.


Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: sac on January 22, 2018, 06:52:32 PM
Bad reasoning......Hope is actually a good offensive team, having scored over 85 points in 9 games.  Hope is a poor defensive team.  JCU had a tough day shooting the ball, fell behind and wound up sending Hope the FT line  41 times.   18 in last 10 minutes as they attempted to extend the game.

I was using just one example.. but if JCU is that good a team... they hold Hope under 100. I think that is a fair comment to make. And JCU could have a tough day shooting, but they need the defense then to hold a team in check. I am not sure your comments are strengthening JCU's case.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

sac

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 22, 2018, 08:13:48 PM
Quote from: sac on January 22, 2018, 06:52:32 PM
Bad reasoning......Hope is actually a good offensive team, having scored over 85 points in 9 games.  Hope is a poor defensive team.  JCU had a tough day shooting the ball, fell behind and wound up sending Hope the FT line  41 times.   18 in last 10 minutes as they attempted to extend the game.

I was using just one example.. but if JCU is that good a team... they hold Hope under 100. I think that is a fair comment to make. And JCU could have a tough day shooting, but they need the defense then to hold a team in check. I am not sure your comments are strengthening JCU's case.

Not the way that game was played, there were 87 possessions.  It was a pretty close game all the way until Hope hit a hot streak at the same time JCU hit a cold patch, deficit got too big and they started fighting back and extending the game which led to a lot of Hope's points being scored without the clock moving and getting relatively easy layups because JCU was forced to gamble excessively in the backcourt press..

  If JCU shoots its season average from the floor, they win.  Defense wasn't why JCU lost that game is all I'm saying.


Fifth and Putnam

JCU made us all look a little silly defending their defense today, giving up 112 points to Muskingum.

sac

John Carroll attempted 30 more shots than Muskingum.  Muskies shot with an eFG% rate of 68% :o

Onward on, John Carroll

Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on January 27, 2018, 06:53:31 PM
JCU made us all look a little silly defending their defense today, giving up 112 points to Muskingum.

I was thinking the same thing as I watched the Live Stats.