BB: General New England Discussion

Started by Paul Heering, February 14, 2007, 06:14:24 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

kscer

Trinity should be #1, but there is a prejudice against NE teams because our season's so short and what real baseball players would play in NE. Going 27-0 is a huge accomplishment.

Pat Coleman

They are different voter bodies. In general, we keep our voters very well informed on all of our polls, D3hoops.com, D3football.com and D3baseball.com, and with the exception of the women's basketball coaches poll, we come up with different results than any other poll.

And I think we've done fairly well for ourselves in general. Obviously, with D3baseball.com's poll being new this year, it's tough to make too much of a call on our poll's track record, but we do come out every week, which helps. :)
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Quote from: old 40 on September 25, 2007, 08:23:57 PMLet's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

ECSUalum

Quote from: C2islegit on April 22, 2008, 09:11:52 PM
Rick, I agree with your at-large predictions, and it should be interesting to see how the Little East plays out. Personally I think Keene St. will take it, and they will be the only team from the conference to make the N.E. tourney.

Kscer, I am also looking forward to seeing how these tournaments play out. A lot of teams are going into the postseason hot (Trinity, Babson, EConn, Amherst etc.) The NEWMAC tourney starts tomorrow and it will be interesting to see how Wheaton and Babson do.

Lastly, EConn just got worked by Trinity 17-2. I think it is a joke that Trinity isn't number 1 in the land. They are undefeated and beating up on powerhouses. And, EConn being a 20-11 now, should NOT be in the top 30, and currently they were according to the ABCA. Anyone know the difference between the 25 coaches in the D3baseball poll and the ABCA coaches? Let me know.


Probabably because Trinity has not experienced the likes of Chapman, Carthage, Cortland State, orTexas Tyler.  They will have to earn #1 when and if they reach the D-III National Tournament, just like everyone else.

I suspect the Coaches know a bit more than you, re who should be in the top 30.

ECSU had an off night tonight and the Bantams did not see thier best pitching. besides when your all American pitcher is hurt, (Gilblair), it makes it tough to be as competitive.

Lastly, THIS SEASON IS NOY OVER YET!!!! ;)

dubbc

C2,
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, babson is very very good this year and seem like they might have the pitching depth for the first time to matchup with wheaton in the tournament.  Their lineup is very deep and when they are locked in they can all be very tough outs.  The biggest problem ive seen with them in a tournament type atmosphere is they tend to be very high low which we all know doesn't get your very far.
My point was that there are so many quality teams coming out of the northeast this year that in my opinion babson will have to win the NEWMACs to sure up a spot.  I certainly could be wrong though  The committee takes in region wins very seriously and it just doesn't seem they have that many of them.  Granted they could lose and then beat RIC USM and tufts and make a VERY strong case for an at large.  But you're right this is the first year in a while that going into the tournament Wheaton is not the clear cut favorite.  Should be very exciting to see how it plays out.


On another note i was very surprised on how easily Trinity handled eastern at eastern.  I wish trinity had more big in region games vs the powers to be but you can't argue with what they've done, they're clearly the favorite right now.

C2islegit

Thanks to all for the replies.

Just to clarify, I wasn't questioning the knowledge of the coaches voting on the polls, I was just wondering the differences in the groups of coaches from the two different polls.

ECSU, I know EConn didn't throw their front end pitching, but that was still a huge statement made by Trinity. I guess Trinity will have to earn their respect if they did make the World Series, similar to the way Wheaton earned that respect to years ago when they made the final game of the Series.

Also, I think the D3baseball poll is even more accurate than the ABCA. It's great that it comes out weekly too.

Dubbc, how do you know so much about Babson's line-up and pitching...just curious. Thanks.

Rick Vaughn

EConn and Trin both threw mid-week guys.  It's not like Gilblair would have thrown that game anyways so don't use that excuse.  Eastern is a terrific hitting squad, but it will be next to impossible to duplicate their success from the last two seasons because their pitching and defense are clear cut weaknesses this year.  And without pitching and defense you can't win when in the tournament.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: Rick Vaughn on April 23, 2008, 12:20:30 AM
EConn and Trin both threw mid-week guys.  It's not like Gilblair would have thrown that game anyways so don't use that excuse.  Eastern is a terrific hitting squad, but it will be next to impossible to duplicate their success from the last two seasons because their pitching and defense are clear cut weaknesses this year.  And without pitching and defense you can't win when in the tournament.
The key is that you believe that both threw mid-week guys.

It is your mid-week guys who are pitching the fourth game in the double-elimination  Regionals.

The game counts in the minds of voters who are trying to figure out which team has more pitching depth to scale the lofty heights of the Top 10 or Top 5.

Ralph Turner

#442
Quote from: kscer on April 22, 2008, 09:26:51 PM
Trinity should be #1, but there is a prejudice against NE teams because our season's so short and what real baseball players would play in NE. Going 27-0 is a huge accomplishment.
WRONG!  There is no prejudice against northeast!  You have no grounds that make that rant!

The rolling season that is D-III baseball makes the interim polls a dramatic work in progress.  The early season is filled with South and West Region teams showing their stuff.  By mid-April (now), you are finally getting to see what the traditional powers, from the traditional areas in the north and northeast, are rolling out.

Stringing together several 5-0/6-0 weeks conveys solid bullpen depth.  In the South and West, you wait for weeks to find the hiccups and the ugly losses.  In the north and northeast, they roll like overwhelming tides.  By the time that you are seeing records of 25-3 or better from a known quantity with past playoff history or a conference with past playoff history, then you can confidently see that teams will jump dramatically.  Just being in the Top 10 means that a voter thinks that that team is going to Wisconsin.  UW-Oshkosh jumped in the polls last week.

1   Chapman (14)   28-3  603    1     West
2   Carthage (3)   26-1    569       2     Central
3   Cortland State (3)  27-3  567    4   New York
4   Salisbury (1)  36-2  546    3        South
5   Trinity (Conn.) (3)   27-0  543  5  New England
6   Johns Hopkins   27-4 472    8    Mid-Atlantic
7   Wooster   29-5 462   9               Mid-East
8   Texas-Tyler (1)   33-7 420     6     West
9   UW-Oshkosh   20-5 344    16  Midwest
10   RPI   25-4  332  10                      New York
11t   New Jersey   25-6  327    7     Mid-Atlantic
11t   Kean   27-8  327    12               Mid-Atlantic
13   St. Thomas   19-5  280     15    Midwest
14   Keene State   24-5 277     19    New England
15   Pomona-Pitzer   27-7 252    11   West
16   UW-Whitewater   18-4 247    20   Midwest

In the top 16 teams, we see all 8 regions represented.  In the last 8 seasons, since the start of the Pools, the champions have come from the Mid-Atlantic twice, the West twice, the Midwest twice, the Mid-east once and New England once.  (The last champion from the South was NCWC in 1999;  from New York, Ithaca in 1988; from the Central, I don't see one.)

I think that the Top 25 voters have done a great job of figuring out the teams that are having the quality years.  The top 5 are strongly positioned.  There are 57 votes between #1 and #5.  In a perfect Top 25, where #1 gets all 25 first-place votes for 625 points, and the perfect #2 gets all 25 second-place votes for 600 points, ..., #5 should get all twenty-five fifth place votes for 525 points; #1 and #5 should be 100 votes apart.  Trinity is stronger than the "perfect #5" with 543 votes.

#6 and #7 are close; then there is #8.  #9-"#12" are bunched, and #13 - #16 are grouped together.

ECSUalum

Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 23, 2008, 01:45:18 AM
Quote from: Rick Vaughn on April 23, 2008, 12:20:30 AM
EConn and Trin both threw mid-week guys.  It's not like Gilblair would have thrown that game anyways so don't use that excuse.  Eastern is a terrific hitting squad, but it will be next to impossible to duplicate their success from the last two seasons because their pitching and defense are clear cut weaknesses this year.  And without pitching and defense you can't win when in the tournament.
The key is that you believe that both threw mid-week guys.

It is your mid-week guys who are pitching the fourth game in the double-elimination  Regionals.

The game counts in the minds of voters who are trying to figure out which team has more pitching depth to scale the lofty heights of the Top 10 or Top 5.


Rick, Ralph,

Your absolutley right about mid week guys.  In fact Esposito pitched last years 14-3 ECSU win over Trinity.  Pitching depth and defence at the .960-.970 level, ( ECSU had a 5 error game last night) is critical for any team to be successful and advance deep into ther NCAA regional/ national tourneys.

No doubt, Trinity has a great team this year,and will have a VERY good shot at the first NESCAC D-III National  Championship and will be rooting for them if a LEC team does not get in
Must admit i was a bit frustrated last night, 1) could not get the stream off of ECSU radio, 2) a post about where ECSU should be ranked in the polls 3) the score, embarrassing  >:(

KSCfan

Ralph- great post about the top 25 polls, very good information that i never knew.  I feel that the New England region this year will be very tough for any of the top three teams to win.  Right now i feel that the top three in New England are
1. Trinity
2. Keene
3. Wheaton

All of three of these teams have pitching, defense, and hitting.  i really feel that it is going to be tough for any of these three teams to win the NE region, and i feel that whoever does has a legitate shot at winning the Ship in Wisconsin.  Ralph, last year Westfield State got shipped to the NY regional, and the year before that Eastern got shipped out there, only to win it.  How does the commitee determine if a NE team gets shipped out, and is there anyway of telling who might get sent out this year?

Ralph Turner

kscfan,

One thing that I want to look at is the records by conference in the playoff since the onset of the Pool system.

I think that the power conferences will be Little East, SUNYAC (Cortland), NJAC, Capital, UAA and WIAC.

With respect to seeding the brackets, I think that

1)  they look at the in-region seeding,
2)  they look at the 500-mile radius as to where they can ship a team to a regional site and save on a plane fare, and
3)  they try to avoid overloading a region with conference teams, when shipping a conference #2 team to another bracket may forestall the conference members meeting "too early".

The committee can do that in New England and Mid-Atlantic Regions.

KSCfan


JustAFan

While Trinity's Bayer hasn't been used as a weekend starter this year (although he has closed several weekend games) I think he's got the second best stuff on the Trinity staff, right behind Kiely, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Decker use him in place of Barnard as either the 2d or 3d starter come tournament time. Remember a few years back when Kiely went from never starting a weekend game to starting and winning a couple of games in the regionals, if memory serves me.  My point is that Eastern didn't see any old weekday starter last night.  And there are very few teams that can trot out a closer of the caliber of McGrath on a weekday, either. Anyone who says that Trinity is going to fall off next year because of the 4 senior pitchers they're losing doesn't appreciate how much hidden pitching talent is still left in the Trinity bullpen just waiting their chance for an opportunity to get some innings.

I'm still scratching my head over the fact that 3 of the top 5 teams in the DIII poll lost games last week, while Trinity did not, and yet Trinity did not move up even one position.  Sounds like several voters have more than one blind eye when it comes to losses suffered by certain teams. But Trinity did get some love in the ABCA poll released yesterday, moving up to #2.


kscer

Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 23, 2008, 02:20:56 AM
Quote from: kscer on April 22, 2008, 09:26:51 PM
Trinity should be #1, but there is a prejudice against NE teams because our season's so short and what real baseball players would play in NE. Going 27-0 is a huge accomplishment.
WRONG!  There is no prejudice against northeast!  You have no grounds that make that rant!
Ralph. I did not mean to imply that the rankings on this board are prejudiced towards anyone. I think you guys go all the way to get an as unbiased view as possible. I apologize if it was taken that way. However, there exists at all levels of play, from tee-ball to major leagues, the feeling that kids who grow up and play in New England just could not be good at baseball. I am not saying that it is evident on D3baseball.com., but it is in the baseball world.

Ralph Turner

Quote from: kscer on April 23, 2008, 04:27:00 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 23, 2008, 02:20:56 AM
Quote from: kscer on April 22, 2008, 09:26:51 PM
Trinity should be #1, but there is a prejudice against NE teams because our season's so short and what real baseball players would play in NE. Going 27-0 is a huge accomplishment.
WRONG!  There is no prejudice against northeast!  You have no grounds that make that rant!
Ralph. I did not mean to imply that the rankings on this board are prejudiced towards anyone. I think you guys go all the way to get an as unbiased view as possible. I apologize if it was taken that way. However, there exists at all levels of play, from tee-ball to major leagues, the feeling that kids who grow up and play in New England just could not be good at baseball. I am not saying that it is evident on D3baseball.com., but it is in the baseball world.
Thanks for the clarification.  That is a new one on me.

I have visited the midwest and the northeast, for extended periods in the summer four times.  My impression was that the kids were so excited to be playing baseball, that they were consumed by it.

In Texas, we have year-around ball, but we also have the Texas Strangers, currently 7-14 and 5 GB.  At that pace, the Strangers will finish 54 games below .500 and 38 GB.  You have the Bosox and the Yankees.  Wanna trade.  Better yet , can you light a cigarette by snapping your fingers?  ;)

I think that the New England baseball is the best at its level in D3, (versus D-II or D-I.)

Let's see how the NEWMAC, NESCAC and LEC finish.

:)