FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

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Dr. Acula

Quote from: hsbsballcoach7 on February 14, 2018, 01:46:02 PM
Quote from: Kira & Jaxon's Dad on February 14, 2018, 10:49:21 AM
Quote from: hsbsballcoach7 on February 14, 2018, 10:35:44 AM
Another one of the RBs I really liked, Zeke Tulloch, changed and is going to Robert Morris. Bigger schools are going after UMU recruits....just goes to show that we are recruiting high level talent.

Wait, guys have "committed" to D3 Mount Union and now are switching and signing Letters of Intent to go to bigger schools?!?!?!?!?!? Gasp! How did they get released from their Offers/Commitments before signing at the new schools?

<sarcasm intended>

Always amusing to see players Tweet about D3 Offers and commitments.

Nobody is saying that they're binding contracts.

I know exactly what your saying, but I just think it's ironic that guys that "commit" or say they're going to attend UMU and are more recently getting better financial offers from bigger schools. At least they better be getting a better financial package. I deal with this all of the time for my own players. They all want to be D1 baseball players, but don't realize that they'll be recruited over and really given very little help money wise (a baseball team can only offer 11.7 total scholarships). I try to get guys to be sold on a school and team playing style/playing time. A D2 or even D3 (with academic and grant money) can offer a similar financial package. If you're truly good enough to move on to the professional level, they will find you. Heck UMU has had guys play professional baseball and basketball recently too, so it's not just football. All I'm saying is that I hope these kids aren't switching schools just because it's a D2 or FCS program.

On that note, former players were poking fun at these HS players claiming "offers" from UMU. Tre Jones and BJ Mitchell tweeted at VK wanting to know where their offers were...haha (For those unsure, those former players know that they weren't supposed to get an "offer", just making a joke).

I just coach summer ball, but I feel your pain.  Parents in all sports are unrealistic, but baseball parents are often in fantasy land.  I'm quick to point out (over and over) when the best kids ahead of their kids on their HS team end up at Otterbein, Witt, OWU, etc.  Kind of like "Are you seeing a pattern here?  The kids who are stars on your HS team are ending up in D3.  Do the math."     

jknezek

I coach soccer at early youth levels but I had to do a presentation to some 13 and 14 year old parents for the area wide Birmingham United Soccer Association. The presentation was nominally about getting parents to behave better, but to do it in a way that didn't feel like we were yelling at them. So I couched it as an introduction to college soccer. I started talking all about the differences between D1, D2, D3, where some of the area schools fall (you wouldn't believe how many parents don't know the SEC doesn't sponsor Men's Soccer), and so on. I talked about the elite camps and the sponsored soccer academies and select teams. And then we got to the fun part.

I explained there are about 3MM registered youth soccer players with U.S. Soccer (there are about 2x that number on unregistered teams, but these are primarily rec and church league clubs for young kids). Of those 3MM registered, about 85% are between 8 and 15. Assuming that 2.55 million players is spread evenly among those ages, that is about 318,750 players per age year. There are 205 D1 men's programs and 335 women's. Each has about 25 players. That is 13,500 D1 college players. Spread over 4 years (let's assume very little red-shirting for simplicity), and you get about 3375 D1 players per year. Now we know you get about twice as many first years as seniors, though probably not on scholarship, so maybe 6000 full or partial scholarship or walk on spots for first years in D1.

About 1.8% of the registered 13/14 year olds stand a chance at being on a D1 team as a first year. Generously speaking.

I went through all the math and then I stood up there and looked out at them and asked them, after doing the numbers, how many thought their kids would be part of that 1.8%. About half raised their hands. In that room of about 500 parents, representing about 300 kids, I told them they'd be lucky to have 6 kids play D1. And that maybe 1 or 2 would get a full, 4 year ride.

I looked out at a rather subdued group of parents at that point and told them that I didn't do this to change their expectations, we all hope for the best for our kids, but to change their attitudes. Their kids playing in BUSA wasn't about them getting scholarships or money for college. It was for fun, for exercise, to learn the game, to learn to work with a team, and to learn how to win and lose properly, just like any other team sport. And the more they yell and scream at their kids, the coaches, the refs, all because they think it will help their kids to get to that elusive 1.8%, the more they ruin the lessons that are much more important for their kids to take away from the game.

Interestingly, I had several parents speak rather sharply to me after the presentation. Somehow I think the point was lost on more than I'd hoped for. There is no helping youth sports parents...

joelmama

Very nice analysis jknezek.  That is about the reaction I would expect.  Everyone thinks their kid is the exception.

jknezek

Quote from: joelmama on February 16, 2018, 11:53:38 AM
Very nice analysis jknezek.  That is about the reaction I would expect.  Everyone thinks their kid is the exception.

Yes. I'm lucky my boys are still littles and I enjoy coaching them, just like my dad coached me. I hope they keep playing, even thought it means I'll eventually have to hand them off to someone else, but my eldest, my daughter, has already given up soccer for Taekwondo. Even knowing what I know, I was sad when she gave up my favorite childhood sport and when I called my dad he laughed and said he felt the same when I gave up baseball, but that it wasn't about me now or him then. Sometimes perspective is helpful. I hope I gave those parents some. It seems like too many youth sports parents are desperately in need of perspective...

HScoach

Quote from: joelmama on February 16, 2018, 11:53:38 AM
Very nice analysis jknezek.  That is about the reaction I would expect.  Everyone thinks their kid is the exception.

That's where I feel like I excelled as a parent.   I had no grand illusions of my 3 kids being anything more than me athletically.   Just your average white kid that couldn't run/jump/shoot nor could I hit a curve ball.   But I did have a pissy attitude to go along with being a strong as an ox farm boy.   Which explains why I was a center/D-tackle in football and wrestled.   My physical attributes, or more accurately my LACK of physical attributes, eliminated any real opportunity but my attitude made me perfect for the line of scrimmage and the wrestling mat.

Unfortunately neither of my boys would even consider football or wrestling so I was stuck watching them play soccer without the physical traits needed to be competitive.  At least my daughter was a swimmer so I did bet to experience the wrestling-like joy of sitting in a hot, smelly arena for 6 hours to watch your kid compete for 6 minutes.....
I find easily offended people rather offensive!

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.

jknezek

Quote from: HScoach on February 16, 2018, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: joelmama on February 16, 2018, 11:53:38 AM
Very nice analysis jknezek.  That is about the reaction I would expect.  Everyone thinks their kid is the exception.

That's where I feel like I excelled as a parent.   I had no grand illusions of my 3 kids being anything more than me athletically.   Just your average white kid that couldn't run/jump/shoot nor could I hit a curve ball.   But I did have a pissy attitude to go along with being a strong as an ox farm boy.   Which explains why I was a center/D-tackle in football and wrestled.   My physical attributes, or more accurately my LACK of physical attributes, eliminated any real opportunity but my attitude made me perfect for the line of scrimmage and the wrestling mat.

Unfortunately neither of my boys would even consider football or wrestling so I was stuck watching them play soccer without the physical traits needed to be competitive.  At least my daughter was a swimmer so I did bet to experience the wrestling-like joy of sitting in a hot, smelly arena for 6 hours to watch your kid compete for 6 minutes.....

This is great. I have no illusions about my kids. One of my boys might be a bit more athletic than I was, the other one a bit less. Keep in mind W&L's soccer coach basically sat me down after I practiced for a year and told me that it most likely wasn't going to happen. So despite playing for an elite h.s. team and club team and some select teams, I couldn't make a decent at the time (better now) DIII team.

Taekwondo sounds a lot like swimming and wrestling, except it's 99% practice and about 3 competitions per year that take 6 minutes a piece. On the upside, there are lots of belt ceremonies to reward the practice and my daughter can kick above her head and punch through a 1 inch thick board at 8 years old. She's also well coached on practical defense. I won't even have to give a Dad speech when she starts dating (though it probably won't stop me). There's piece of mind in knowing she'll be able to take care of herself.

Kira & Jaxon's Dad

I teach/coach at a mid-sized High School in Florida (1,300 students grades 9-12).

We opened in 2010 so we are finishing our 8th year.

In that time we have had Two Athletes sign at the D1 Level (out of all of our sports) and One Walk On.

One was a Women's Soccer Player who NEVER suited up for our school.  She only played Club Soccer.  Signed at FSU, won a National Championship as a Freshman, then transferred to LSU.

Another was a Men's Golfer who played at University of North Florida.  Not a top level D1 school but he used it to earn his degree.

The third is a football player who went to JC in Mississippi for two years and then walked on at USF this year.  He actually ended up starting on Special Teams and getting a few carries at RB and a few series at LB.

We do have a Senior Baseball Player this year who has committed to Ole Miss.  Although he is projected to be picked in the top three rounds of the MLB Draft, so he may end up not attending College.  He actually attends a local Charter School that does not offer athletics so he is allowed to play for us (his zoned public school).  Great Kid, taking Dual Enrollment Classes at the Local State College and will graduate with a +4.0 GPA and already have earned his Associates Degree.

Most Kids/Parents nowadays don't realize how unique it is to actually have the opportunity to play at the D1 Level.

As far as Football Players from my school.  We have had two who have actually completed (or about to complete) their Four Year Degrees playing College Athletics.  One was a WR and Track kid who ended up being a Two-Time All American Decathlete at the NAIA Level.  The other played 3 years of Football (one year out for injury) at the US Coast Guard Academy.  We have sent others to NAIA schools (not as many D3 Schools in the SE and kids don't want to go that far away) and most come home after a semester or two.
National Champions - 13: 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2012, 2015, 2017

HScoach

#55282
During my years coaching high school football at a mid-size Ohio rural school, we had 2 kids with serious athletic ability above and beyond anyone else. 

One was a stud basketball, football and baseball player that did NOTHING in any of those sports until the 1st day of practice for that sport.  He instantly was the best player on the field/court for us and any of our opponents as soon as he stepped forward.   He was only 6'-3" so basketball wasn't a legit path for him at the next level.   He had the ability to play D1 football if he chose that path, but a 95 MPH fastball left handed made his decision quite easy.   Went from HS straight to the minor leagues, pitched in the majors as a reliever for a few years before elbow issues ended his career.   Kid was physically gifted beyond anything that I thought was possible.

The second kid was a TE and DE for us that was bigger and faster than anyone we played.   This was back in the early 1990's before 6'-4', 240 lbs with wheels was a normal thing.   Unfortunately he thought school was optional and barely graduated, though he was plenty smart enough to do well.  Shockingly <sarcasm added> no one would waste a scholarship on such an academic risk and he never went to school or played beyond HS.   I saw him a couple years after graduation and he had continued to grow into a 6'-5', 270 lb mass of muscle after working construction for a couple years.   That kid had the physical size and speed to be a serious DE at the major college level but he wasted an opportunity to chase that dream by screwing around in HS.   Unfortunately his story gets repeated over and over again across the nation. 

Coached a lot of kids with the desire to work themselves into being really good HS players, but only a couple were blessed with the physical size and speed to go along.
I find easily offended people rather offensive!

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.

Dr. Acula

Quote from: jknezek on February 16, 2018, 11:45:19 AM
Interestingly, I had several parents speak rather sharply to me after the presentation. Somehow I think the point was lost on more than I'd hoped for. There is no helping youth sports parents...

+K for the entire post.  Good stuff.

On this bolded part...I was floored.  Last summer was my first time coaching since 2002.  Things are much different than I remember.  I recall specifically being appalled at a tournament down in Cincy watching parents (several sets) screaming at the umpire from right behind the backstop.  Not like "Cmon blue you missed that one" I'm talking vicious stuff.  It was a 10U game.  10 year olds!!  I couldn't believe that people would act like that period, let alone in front of your kids and in public.  It's 10 year old baseball for crying out loud.

MUC57


Jknezek

Saw on an earlier post about your love affair with soccer (futbol).
I never played and, in fact, never heard of it growing up. (Regular readers of this board know I'm old).
When I lived in California, my son played in high school and also did some refereeing. During one game, he had to red card a coach and a parent. Kept swearing and yelling other obscene comments. The teams were made up of, I forgot exactly, 7-9 year olds. Interesting how parents have to live vicariously through their kids. I' m sure you know all about that!
I also followed the San Jose Earthquakes in the old NASL. Got to watch Pele, Franz Beckenbauer, Georgio Cinalia (sp) and many other top players. The Earthquakes had the great George Best on their team. Many people, especially those in Europe, believe the former Manchester United player was the greatest ever, even better than Pele!
Now, did I tell you about the time I had several drinks at the San Jose airport with George Best? Oh, well, I had several drinks at the San Jose airport with George Best. Older people, like myself, are really impressed when I tell them that.
So what's the point of all this? I have no idea. Just wanted to talk soccer. I really enjoy watching it, almost as much as football.
Still enjoy reading your posts. A voice of sanity on a sometimes crazy board!⚽️⚽️⚽️⚽️⚽️⚽️
I'm old! I get mixed up and I forget things! Go Everybody! 🏈 ☠

jknezek

Quote from: Dr. Acula on February 16, 2018, 02:58:12 PM
Quote from: jknezek on February 16, 2018, 11:45:19 AM
Interestingly, I had several parents speak rather sharply to me after the presentation. Somehow I think the point was lost on more than I'd hoped for. There is no helping youth sports parents...

+K for the entire post.  Good stuff.

On this bolded part...I was floored.  Last summer was my first time coaching since 2002.  Things are much different than I remember.  I recall specifically being appalled at a tournament down in Cincy watching parents (several sets) screaming at the umpire from right behind the backstop.  Not like "Cmon blue you missed that one" I'm talking vicious stuff.  It was a 10U game.  10 year olds!!  I couldn't believe that people would act like that period, let alone in front of your kids and in public.  It's 10 year old baseball for crying out loud.

This was the kind of stuff we were trying to cut out. I don't think my speech worked all that well. I'm not sure any speech will. People are absolutely insane. And it's not just team sports or popular sports. My daughter beat a boy at a taekwondo tournament last year and his father was screaming at the judges the whole match. I couldn't tell you if the judges were doing something wrong since I barely understand the rules even after 2 years of watching, but I do know his attitude was despicable.

hsbsballcoach7

Quote from: jknezek on February 16, 2018, 04:08:43 PM
Quote from: Dr. Acula on February 16, 2018, 02:58:12 PM
Quote from: jknezek on February 16, 2018, 11:45:19 AM
Interestingly, I had several parents speak rather sharply to me after the presentation. Somehow I think the point was lost on more than I'd hoped for. There is no helping youth sports parents...

+K for the entire post.  Good stuff.

On this bolded part...I was floored.  Last summer was my first time coaching since 2002.  Things are much different than I remember.  I recall specifically being appalled at a tournament down in Cincy watching parents (several sets) screaming at the umpire from right behind the backstop.  Not like "Cmon blue you missed that one" I'm talking vicious stuff.  It was a 10U game.  10 year olds!!  I couldn't believe that people would act like that period, let alone in front of your kids and in public.  It's 10 year old baseball for crying out loud.

This was the kind of stuff we were trying to cut out. I don't think my speech worked all that well. I'm not sure any speech will. People are absolutely insane. And it's not just team sports or popular sports. My daughter beat a boy at a taekwondo tournament last year and his father was screaming at the judges the whole match. I couldn't tell you if the judges were doing something wrong since I barely understand the rules even after 2 years of watching, but I do know his attitude was despicable.

I'm glad our program isn't the only ones dealing with parents like this!!! Our program has had some pretty good athletes with 5 D1 guys, 3 D2 and a bunch of D3 level players in the last 10 years. The issue is when a parent sees his little Johnny playing well or better than the D1 kid, they always think little Johnny should be getting a D1 offer. Difference is that little Johnny focuses on baseball only, is 4 inches shorter, 30 pounds lighter and plays 2nd base as opposed to SS or 3rd. The other issue we run into are the kids that think Clemson is "in contact" with them (they DID view their highlight tape once), but have never heard from a Clemson coach, but Walsh, UMU, Capital, etc have viewed multiple times and want them badly. This kid hits .280 (against very good HS competition), but a D1 kid should dominate or look good no matter who is against them. It also never helps that this kid throws his helmet and complains that there is too much pressure on him. Fortunately, there are only a couple of those every so often, but those kids expectations are so high for a D1scholarship, that they don't even give D3 a look because of ego (most of the time). This has been my point with big Stark County school kids coming to UMU for football bc they think they'll play right away....it is D3 after all. Then most quit after a season if they even make it that long. I don't consider myself old (graduated HS this century),but it's the way kids are being raised for sure!

I hope this non football post doesn't offend, but I think it relates to the majority of kids playing sports these days. Many parents are trying to live through their children and want what is "best" for them. Even I'd this includes paying $2,000 for winter training, and $5,000 for a summer team each year....is that worth your kid quitting in a couple of years anyway? Another reason I'm nervous for pay to play schools, those parents paid for their kid to b on the team, so they must play, right?

At all levels and all sports, playing time MUST be earned!

emma17

On the other side of the over zealous parents living vicariously through their kids, I think many parents today are afraid to motivate/push/set reasonable expectations for their kids because they don't want to be viewed as that over-bearing parent.

Desertraider

The parent/kid thing is an interesting discussion. Previously it was discussed that athletes may get swayed to D2 so they can say they are on "scholarship". I think the parents are more likely to push a kid that way so they can brag to their friends that Jr got a scholarship. Even some that go D3 will argue the school is "giving him more because they wanted him so bad". I remember arguing with a guy at a Mount game (in the bookstore of all places) because he was telling everyone in ear shot (yet talking to no on in particular) that "Mount gave my boy a full ride". No matter what was said he kept shouting it "no he is getting a full ride to play here". He even said that if he wasn't getting a full ride he would have told him to take the full ride from Ashland. Parents living vicariously through their kids really suck. Not because they believe, but because the won't listen to reality. Its always about their kid. Call it the Krapdashian Theory or the Big Baller Theory of Irrelevance (as the kids level of social/athletic relevance diminishes, the parents boasting about said kids importance increases by a factor of 10).

BTW: I won't say the kids name on here (the Mount parent) but I followed his career after his Dad's boasting. He never started a game, only made 1 playoff roster, didn't play as a Senior, and I never heard his name called on radio, TV or in the Stadium. Just a parent boasting about their kid.  Oh and the Krapdashian Theory / Big Baller Theory of Irrelevance is both made up and spot on.
RIP MUC57 - Go Everybody!
National Champions: 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2012, 2015, 2017
The Autumn Wind is a Raider!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzEYK_XjyLg
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raiderpa

I have always felt that boasting on one's kid is a sign of insecurity.  I had three kids, all average or just above average athletically, good enough to play and enjoy sports.  I felt it my responsibility to introduce them to various sports and let them choose.  It worked out ok. They played, had fun, my wife and I enjoyed watching and I worked with them on things that may have been weaknesses in their games.  Both daughters hung up softball, when they were possible future varsity starters because they said that coaches and parents were taking things too seriously and it wasn't fun like it was. Son was decent four year starter on an average soccer team and a jv basketball player as a junior, and had fun.

I took 13 girls(two my daughters) to a summer softball league under the following conditions:
No practice ever.
Sunday doubleheaders with equal playing time for all...we kept track.
No errors, k's or mistakes criticized only supported to not worry about it.
No parent interference, only support.  No parents would criticize umpires.  (gave parents these rule in writing)
We had no defeats in two summers, I turned girls away who wanted to play to keep roster small.  Not one girl quit.
I see the girls now, almost 20 years later and they still say it was the best of times.  Was for me.
Most kids just want to have fun.