FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 05:19:08 AM

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hazzben

The irony is if UST goes to the WIAC, it only solves a problem for the well endowed schools who were struggling to compete on the field. For schools whose reason for TomToss was enrollment related, UST will still be in MN and would still be a D3 school.

Tommie/Johnnie would survive as well, but in a diminished capacity.

My money is still on a painful move up a division or two.

WW

I don't know whether to take the WIAC guy at his word or not. Does Stout, LC, EC or especially RF really want more recruitment competition on the western front, now coming from within the league? UST just doesn't seem to fit.

jamtod

Quote from: WW on May 16, 2019, 04:48:42 PM
I don't know whether to take the WIAC guy at his word or not. Does Stout, LC, EC or especially RF really want more recruitment competition on the western front, now coming from within the league? UST just doesn't seem to fit.

Does the recruiting competition outpace the expanded reach for those WIAC schools? I'm not sure how much they have for inroads into the Twin Cities market already (several do, especially Stout and EC I think).

GoldandBlueBU

How would travel to the WIAC compare to the NSIC?

WW and Oshkosh are both over 4.5 hrs from UST, Stevens pt at 3.5...not so bad for football, but for other sports that adds up.


WW

Quote from: jamtoTommie on May 16, 2019, 04:56:10 PM
Quote from: WW on May 16, 2019, 04:48:42 PM
I don't know whether to take the WIAC guy at his word or not. Does Stout, LC, EC or especially RF really want more recruitment competition on the western front, now coming from within the league? UST just doesn't seem to fit.

Does the recruiting competition outpace the expanded reach for those WIAC schools? I'm not sure how much they have for inroads into the Twin Cities market already (several do, especially Stout and EC I think).

They already recruit heavily in TC. A quick count of the UWRF football roster shows 46 Minnesotans, so at a glance, I don't think adding UST will expand their reach beyond what they already try to grab. And the common complaint from the western part of Wisconsin is that they lose all the local quality kids to nearby D2s that don't exist around Whitewater or Oshkosh. UST would seem to provide a private D3 opportunity for western Wisconsin kids who want family too see them play along with private school benefits. Not sure how many kids that would affect, but seems to me it would draw a few more out of the UW system than it would draw in.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: hazzben on May 16, 2019, 04:26:21 PM
The irony is if UST goes to the WIAC, it only solves a problem for the well endowed schools who were struggling to compete on the field. For schools whose reason for TomToss was enrollment related, UST will still be in MN and would still be a D3 school.

Good point.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

gbpuckfan

Quote from: OldAuggie on May 16, 2019, 04:09:12 PM
Quote from: UWO Titan 78 on May 16, 2019, 03:34:28 PM
I don't know if it is a realistic option, but I'd welcome St. Thomas to the WIAC. From a football standpoint it would help scheduling a lot. It would help on the hockey front too. I wish Oshkosh would add hockey, but that's not going to happen.
Add UST and one more and you have the AQ status for hockey. Stevens Point looked dominant this year wow.

Northland leaves the NCHA for the WIAC this fall in hockey


https://wiacsports.com/news/2018/4/5/wiac-announces-addition-of-northland-college-for-mens-and-womens-ice-hockey.aspx

St. Norbert College Green Knights
NCAA D3 Hockey National Champions 2008, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2018
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OldAuggie

Quote from: gbpuckfan on May 16, 2019, 09:16:01 PM
Quote from: OldAuggie on May 16, 2019, 04:09:12 PM
Quote from: UWO Titan 78 on May 16, 2019, 03:34:28 PM
I don't know if it is a realistic option, but I'd welcome St. Thomas to the WIAC. From a football standpoint it would help scheduling a lot. It would help on the hockey front too. I wish Oshkosh would add hockey, but that's not going to happen.
Add UST and one more and you have the AQ status for hockey. Stevens Point looked dominant this year wow.

Northland leaves the NCHA for the WIAC this fall in hockey


https://wiacsports.com/news/2018/4/5/wiac-announces-addition-of-northland-college-for-mens-and-womens-ice-hockey.aspx
Forgot about that! If UST joins the conference, the WIAC gains the AQ in hockey, adds a good athletic program and Augsburg and UST can continue to build thier hockey rivalry. Maybe. 
MIAC champions 1928, 1997

retagent

My take is that those recruited by WIAC schools in MN are from a bit different pool than those recruited by MIAC schools. Private, high cost college vs Public, lower cost schools. I also think, as I've stated before, St Thomas would like to keep its niche as an academically more elite college than a public college, whose mission is to educate a larger more diverse group. Without looking closely, I would also guess that WIAC colleges have a wider choice of majors than does UST and other MIAC schools.

wally_wabash

Quote from: hazzben on May 16, 2019, 04:26:21 PM
The irony is if UST goes to the WIAC, it only solves a problem for the well endowed schools who were struggling to compete on the field. For schools whose reason for TomToss was enrollment related, UST will still be in MN and would still be a D3 school.

Tommie/Johnnie would survive as well, but in a diminished capacity.

My money is still on a painful move up a division or two.

Diminished?  I don't know.  It kind of depends on how the programs and fan bases react to the teams being in different leagues.  When DePauw left the ICAC after the 1997 season to join the SCAC, obviously the Monon Bell game continued on, but it was different.  Attendance remained high, helped in great part by Wabash entering a golden age for the program beginning about 2001 and DePauw momentarily becoming a playoff level team in the late 2000s- BUT, the games were definitely different.  I can't speak for everybody, but for me it definitely felt like a lot of the years between 1998 and 2012 (when DePauw joined the NCAC and reunited in a conference with Wabash) the game was a backdrop for a large reunion event.  Not that that is a bad thing (some of my favorite days during those years were reuniting with old friends and classmates at early morning Monon Bell tailgates), but the game itself felt kind of exhibitiony a lot of the time.  Now that the teams are back in a league together and both teams are pretty good (capable of contending for league championships at least), there's a little more juice back into what actually happens on the field. 

So Johnnie-Tommie can certainly survive a UST move to the WIAC and even be the attendance juggernaut that it has been, but it'll probably feel different.  Not bad, just different. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

TheChucker

#92440
Yes, with UST hypothetically in the WIAC, the Tommie/Johnnie game would be diminished from its level over the past decade. Along with its long history, that game has recently been a key to deciding the MIAC champion (since Caruso) thus increasing its popularity. Without the conference title on the line, it could be a glorified exhibition game. Still important to fans, but not as important as now.

For all you older SJU & UST alums, was the game anywhere near that big of a deal in the 1990s and before when UST wasn't vying for the title? From my perch in Moorhead in the 1980s, it didn't seem as big as now (when UST wasn't the perennial contender and SJU was) ...but I wasn't personally involved.

WW

Quote from: retagent on May 17, 2019, 08:19:08 AM
My take is that those recruited by WIAC schools in MN are from a bit different pool than those recruited by MIAC schools. Private, high cost college vs Public, lower cost schools. I also think, as I've stated before, St Thomas would like to keep its niche as an academically more elite college than a public college, whose mission is to educate a larger more diverse group. Without looking closely, I would also guess that WIAC colleges have a wider choice of majors than does UST and other MIAC schools.

Yeah, they're just different. I don't see it happening. Besides, WIAC has long functioned as a brand extension of the UW education system as a whole, not just a cluster of sports teams. There would be multi-level resistance.

SaintsFAN

AMC Champs: 1991-1992-1993-1994-1995
HCAC Champs: 2000, 2001
PAC Champs:  2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016
Bridge Bowl Champs:  1990-1991-1992-1993-1994-1995-2002-2003-2006-2008-2009-2010-2011-2012-2013 (SERIES OVER)
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miac952

I really don't see the WIAC happening. Way too many differences in strut

I have nothing to base this on, but I suspect the reason the whole vote was squashed in April was for UST to get their ducks in a row and set a glide path out of the MIAC. There probably had been some planning on it previously, but unlikely that they were ready to move so soon. I would anticipate this to be a lengthy departure (2 -4 years). If the MIAC isn't willing to do that, the school Presidents in the C.O.L may find themselves in a court tussle. Taking Auggie's (not the C.O.L Augie) spot in the NSIC seems most probable if there were odds on this thing.

DuffMan

Quote from: TheChucker on May 17, 2019, 11:15:25 AM
For all you older SJU & UST alums, was the game anywhere near that big of a deal in the 1990s and before when UST wasn't vying for the title? From my perch in Moorhead in the 1980s, it didn't seem as big as now (when UST wasn't the perennial contender and SJU was) ...but I wasn't personally involved.

I played from '99 - '02.  It was still a big game, but moreso for the fans.  In those years, we were always most hyped for Bethel and Concordia.

A tradition unrivaled...
MIAC Champions: 1932, 1935, 1936, 1938, 1953, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1971, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1982, 1985, 1989, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2021, 2022
National Champions: 1963, 1965, 1976, 2003