Author Topic: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference  (Read 3735900 times)

Offline Charlie

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18975 on: January 12, 2022, 12:00:34 pm »
The Globe and MA in general tends to skew very heavy towards public school recognition---many of the top prep schools do not garner the attention that the private schools in places like NYC, DC, and Philly do so it seems they get mostly ignored. Regardless, I think it is still useful for highlight NESCAC recruits, which is all nescac1 was trying to do.

I don't know what the average roster size in the ISL is but I do know that the commitment to football varies a TON from the top of the league to the bottom of the league, so whatever that metric it, it wouldn't be very useful. I would guess there are some top teams that are in the 60-70 range. Conversely, I remember a story where a team had to cancel its season because they didn't have enough bodies to finish it.


Makes sense just viewed a bunch of kids who were All Stars but should have been ranked Top 10.  I think they get over shadowed again because the school and more importantly Coaches do not promote the kids.

Side Note did people hear the Spring League for High School Football is going into its second year. I was able to Catch a few of the games last year. The level of play was awesome they did so many smart things , Current and former College Coaches Coach teams and 13 kids last year from the league teams went D1 and around the same number went D2 & D3.

Glad to see everywhere else in country has spring ball

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18976 on: January 12, 2022, 01:32:58 pm »
The Globe and MA in general tends to skew very heavy towards public school recognition---many of the top prep schools do not garner the attention that the private schools in places like NYC, DC, and Philly do so it seems they get mostly ignored. Regardless, I think it is still useful for highlight NESCAC recruits, which is all nescac1 was trying to do.

I don't know what the average roster size in the ISL is but I do know that the commitment to football varies a TON from the top of the league to the bottom of the league, so whatever that metric it, it wouldn't be very useful. I would guess there are some top teams that are in the 60-70 range. Conversely, I remember a story where a team had to cancel its season because they didn't have enough bodies to finish it.

Yea I think a place like St. Sebastian's or Belmont Hill have about 50+ varsity players on their rosters.  Roxbury Latin probably 30+.  Nobles in the 40+ range.

Will be interesting to see how Catholic Memorial will be handled in the future.  They are changing the HS football landscape that's for sure.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 01:36:11 pm by Jonny Utah »

Offline Charlie

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18977 on: January 12, 2022, 01:39:00 pm »
The Globe and MA in general tends to skew very heavy towards public school recognition---many of the top prep schools do not garner the attention that the private schools in places like NYC, DC, and Philly do so it seems they get mostly ignored. Regardless, I think it is still useful for highlight NESCAC recruits, which is all nescac1 was trying to do.

I don't know what the average roster size in the ISL is but I do know that the commitment to football varies a TON from the top of the league to the bottom of the league, so whatever that metric it, it wouldn't be very useful. I would guess there are some top teams that are in the 60-70 range. Conversely, I remember a story where a team had to cancel its season because they didn't have enough bodies to finish it.

Yea I think a place like St. Sebastian's or Belmont Hill have about 50+ varsity players on their rosters.  Roxbury Latin probably 30+.  Nobles in the 40+ range.

Will be interesting to see how Catholic Memorial will be handled in the future.  They are changing the HS football landscape that's for sure.

I think Catholic Memorial should be in D1 anyway. The MIAA has such a screwed up methodology of how they rank teams. No reason they should be D2

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18978 on: January 12, 2022, 01:48:09 pm »
The Globe and MA in general tends to skew very heavy towards public school recognition---many of the top prep schools do not garner the attention that the private schools in places like NYC, DC, and Philly do so it seems they get mostly ignored. Regardless, I think it is still useful for highlight NESCAC recruits, which is all nescac1 was trying to do.

I don't know what the average roster size in the ISL is but I do know that the commitment to football varies a TON from the top of the league to the bottom of the league, so whatever that metric it, it wouldn't be very useful. I would guess there are some top teams that are in the 60-70 range. Conversely, I remember a story where a team had to cancel its season because they didn't have enough bodies to finish it.

Yea I think a place like St. Sebastian's or Belmont Hill have about 50+ varsity players on their rosters.  Roxbury Latin probably 30+.  Nobles in the 40+ range.

Will be interesting to see how Catholic Memorial will be handled in the future.  They are changing the HS football landscape that's for sure.

I think Catholic Memorial should be in D1 anyway. The MIAA has such a screwed up methodology of how they rank teams. No reason they should be D2

100%.  I have a conspiracy theory that the MIAA (who if you notice is always sprinkled heavily with former Catholic School administrators) is afraid at some point the publics are going to say "enough is enough".  CM has taken over the Boston City pop warner program and has about 20 coaches who help out and get kids whenever they can. 

 Some sports can do the Super 8 thing (baseball and hockey) and I think that relieves some of the tension, but football is going to be an issue soon.

Offline BigKat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18979 on: January 13, 2022, 10:27:56 am »
Most of these post season lists in Mass are popularity contests-many kids on the Herald and Globe lists will never play another down of football ( which is fine btw). The closest thing to almost having it nailed every year is the Super 26 all state team. The majority of those kids had legit years and careers.

Offline The Mole

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18980 on: January 15, 2022, 11:43:17 am »
Just finished the Dick Farley book. If there is a better advocate for Division III and NESCAC in this work, I would love to read it. Enjoyable and easy read. I got a signed copy, nice little surprise. SPOILER ALERT: stop here if you plan on reading or have not yet.

Quick takeaways:

RECORD: HC overall 114-19-3, started 5-5-1 (26% of all his career losses as HC), 6/19 to Trinity, went 128 games without back to back losses--equivalent to 16 seasons then, never lost a game in Maine, 29-4-1 in Little 3 games., every player that he recruited and played 4 years and graduated left with at least one perfect season, incredible....
RECRUITING: focused on multi-sport athletes (like himself and other coaches at school), competed a lot with Ivy & Patriot, if a prospect sent video he would watch at least 5 minutes (no HUDL/Twitter then!), would be brutally honest with recruits (something lacking today across all sports and divisions), would call Ivy coaches to see if they had any recruits not high on their list he should consider, Junior Nights at various hotels and gold clubs all over NE and as far west as Buffalo and south as Philly--was eliminated after no in person recruiting allowed (mentioned Middlebury did this as well).
COACHING TREE: pretty impressive list of former players and assistants at various levels from HS to NFL: Dicenzo, Whalen, Ludwig all at Wesleyan, James Perry at Brown, Dave Clawson at Wake Forest, Kevin Gilmartin at Salve Regina, Dave Caputi at Middlebury-- list goes on and on...
ROSTER SIZE: was not a fan of the 75 roster limit, felt it was done to help the more geographically removed Mane schools, this eliminated the freshmen team, coincidentally that has not appeared to have any impact on those schools (discussed before on the board about that being relaxed to 90ish since Covid).
OPPORTUNITIES TO LEAVE: loved coaching both track and football, interviewed at Bowdoin & Hamilton as assistant under Bob Odell and was not offered jobs--they were hesitatant to hire someone without HC experience (they still have not figured it out), Dartmouth and Princeton talked to him about assistant jobs--he did not want to give up coaching track and did not want to coach football year round, Dartmouth & Harvard came back and discussed HC jobs with him--had a search member at Dartmouth tell him Williams was a better gig as it was top 1 or 2 with Amherst in NESCAC while Dartmouth was at best 4th behind Harvard, Princeton & Yale (surprised him), 3 things he did not like about the Ivy jobs: year round focus on football and recruiting, fundraising for the program and pay level (another surprise), also was told if he wanted the Harvard job he would have to campaign for it and call in favors, etc. He had zero interest in that...staying worked out fine...

I am leaving a lot out as there were plenty of other golden nuggets in there. I had the pleasure of meeting him in 2002 while my alma mater Fordham had a then I-AA playoff game at Northeastern. The aforementioned Dave Clawson was Rams HC and Farley was there to watch. Coincidentally, I was there with my former roommate whose father Larry Glueck, was my HC at FU. He had coached at Penn under Bob Odell at Penn and was an assistant at Harvard for 13 years under Joe Restic (and received those calls about what kids Harvard could pass along to him) so he knew Farley very well. We watched whole game with him, it was a real treat, he was a character, very affable. In retrospect, a true highlight for me as I read the book.

Apologies for the long post, really enjoyed the book. I highly recommend it!!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 01:55:36 pm by The Mole »
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Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18981 on: January 15, 2022, 01:23:59 pm »
Just finished the Dick Farley book. If there is a better advocate for Division III and NESCAC in this work, I would love to read it. Enjoyable and easy read. I got a signed copy, nice little surprise. SPOILER ALERT: stop here if you plan on reading or have not yet.

Quick takeaways:

RECORD: HC overall 114-19-3, started 5-5-1 (26% of all his career losses as HC), 6/19 to Trinity, went 128 games without back to back losses--equivalent to 16 seasons then, never lost a game in Maine, 29-4-1 in Little 3 games., incredible....
RECRUITING: focused on multi-sport athletes (like himself and other coaches at school), competed a lot with Ivy & Patriot, if a prospect sent video he would watch at least 5 minutes (no HUDL/Twitter then!), would be brutally honest with recruits (something lacking today across all sports and divisions), would call Ivy coaches to see if they had any recruits not high on their list he should consider, Junior Nights at various hotels and gold clubs all over NE and as far west as Buffalo and south as Philly--was eliminated after no in person recruiting allowed (mentioned Middlebury did this as well).
COACHING TREE: pretty impressive list of former players and assistants at various levels from HS to NFL: Dicenzo, Whalen, Ludwig all at Wesleyan, James Perry at Brown, Dave Clawson at Wake Forest, Kevin Gilmartin at Salve Regina, Dave Caputi at Middlebury-- list goes on and on...
ROSTER SIZE: was not a fan of the 75 roster limit, felt it was done to help the more geographically removed Mane schools, this eliminated the freshmen team, coincidentally that has not appeared to have any impact on those schools (discussed before on the board about that being relaxed to 90ish since Covid).
OPPORTUNITIES TO LEAVE: loved coaching both track and football, interviewed at Bowdoin & Hamilton as assistant under Bob Odell and was not offered jobs--they were hesitatant to hire someone without HC experience (they still have not figured it out), Dartmouth and Princeton talked to him about assistant jobs--he did not want to give up coaching track and did not want to coach football year round, Dartmouth & Harvard came back and discussed HC jobs with him--had a search member at Dartmouth tell him Williams was a better gig as it was top 1 or 2 with Amherst in NESCAC while Dartmouth was at best 4th behind Harvard, Princeton & Yale (surprised him), 3 things he did not like about the Ivy jobs: year round focus on football and recruiting, fundraising for the program and pay level (another surprise), also was told if he wanted the Harvard job he would have to campaign for it and call in favors, etc. He had zero interest in that...staying worked out fine...

I am leaving a lot out as there were plenty of other golden nuggets in there. I had the pleasure of meeting him in 2002 while my alma mater Fordham had a then I-AA playoff game at Northeastern. The aforementioned Dave Clawson was Rams HC and Farley was there to watch. Coincidentally, I was there with my former roommate whose father Larry Glueck, was my HC at FU. He had coached at Penn under Bob Odell at Penn and was an assistant at Harvard for 13 years under Joe Restic (and received those calls about what kids Harvard could pass along to him) so he knew Farley very well. We watched whole game with him, it was a real treat, he was a character, very affable. In retrospect, a true highlight for me as I read the book.

Apologies for the long post, really enjoyed the book. I highly recommend it!!

Great post Mole.  We need more like this.

My father played at Northeastern and I remember that Fordham game well.  Don Brown's last game at NU.  Also made me think of Tim Murphy taking the Harvard job after building things at Cincinnati.  Signed a 5-year deal in 1993 for 75K a year at Harvard (I think he got an actual house with it but I'm not that sure).  Cincinnati at the time was paying about 125K a year.  I knew someone who coached at Harvard in the mid 1990s.  He said one of the worst parts of the job was that every year the coaching staff had to sit in front of a group of alumni and watch them break down the Yale game for them and they could ask questions.  I believe they still do that but it seems Murphy has gotten the better of them since 1993. 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 01:26:31 pm by Jonny Utah »

Offline The Mole

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18982 on: January 15, 2022, 04:47:48 pm »
Thanks JU. Farley mentioned that in the book--to afford a home "near" Harvard would have been an hour plus drive. He was from Danvers so felt obligated to go through the process. Turned out OK for he and Murphy. Williams gave him a 5 year contract which allowed him to buy a home at a lower mortgage rate and he lived next to campus and walked to work every day.


Just finished the Dick Farley book. If there is a better advocate for Division III and NESCAC in this work, I would love to read it. Enjoyable and easy read. I got a signed copy, nice little surprise. SPOILER ALERT: stop here if you plan on reading or have not yet.

Quick takeaways:

RECORD: HC overall 114-19-3, started 5-5-1 (26% of all his career losses as HC), 6/19 to Trinity, went 128 games without back to back losses--equivalent to 16 seasons then, never lost a game in Maine, 29-4-1 in Little 3 games., incredible....
RECRUITING: focused on multi-sport athletes (like himself and other coaches at school), competed a lot with Ivy & Patriot, if a prospect sent video he would watch at least 5 minutes (no HUDL/Twitter then!), would be brutally honest with recruits (something lacking today across all sports and divisions), would call Ivy coaches to see if they had any recruits not high on their list he should consider, Junior Nights at various hotels and gold clubs all over NE and as far west as Buffalo and south as Philly--was eliminated after no in person recruiting allowed (mentioned Middlebury did this as well).
COACHING TREE: pretty impressive list of former players and assistants at various levels from HS to NFL: Dicenzo, Whalen, Ludwig all at Wesleyan, James Perry at Brown, Dave Clawson at Wake Forest, Kevin Gilmartin at Salve Regina, Dave Caputi at Middlebury-- list goes on and on...
ROSTER SIZE: was not a fan of the 75 roster limit, felt it was done to help the more geographically removed Mane schools, this eliminated the freshmen team, coincidentally that has not appeared to have any impact on those schools (discussed before on the board about that being relaxed to 90ish since Covid).
OPPORTUNITIES TO LEAVE: loved coaching both track and football, interviewed at Bowdoin & Hamilton as assistant under Bob Odell and was not offered jobs--they were hesitatant to hire someone without HC experience (they still have not figured it out), Dartmouth and Princeton talked to him about assistant jobs--he did not want to give up coaching track and did not want to coach football year round, Dartmouth & Harvard came back and discussed HC jobs with him--had a search member at Dartmouth tell him Williams was a better gig as it was top 1 or 2 with Amherst in NESCAC while Dartmouth was at best 4th behind Harvard, Princeton & Yale (surprised him), 3 things he did not like about the Ivy jobs: year round focus on football and recruiting, fundraising for the program and pay level (another surprise), also was told if he wanted the Harvard job he would have to campaign for it and call in favors, etc. He had zero interest in that...staying worked out fine...

I am leaving a lot out as there were plenty of other golden nuggets in there. I had the pleasure of meeting him in 2002 while my alma mater Fordham had a then I-AA playoff game at Northeastern. The aforementioned Dave Clawson was Rams HC and Farley was there to watch. Coincidentally, I was there with my former roommate whose father Larry Glueck, was my HC at FU. He had coached at Penn under Bob Odell at Penn and was an assistant at Harvard for 13 years under Joe Restic (and received those calls about what kids Harvard could pass along to him) so he knew Farley very well. We watched whole game with him, it was a real treat, he was a character, very affable. In retrospect, a true highlight for me as I read the book.

Apologies for the long post, really enjoyed the book. I highly recommend it!!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 06:40:57 pm by The Mole »
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Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18983 on: January 16, 2022, 09:50:00 am »
Thanks for the recommendation. I've got to order that book.

Offline Charlie

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18984 on: January 22, 2022, 06:14:47 pm »
Thanks for the recommendation. I've got to order that book.

Wow a great deal of changes in the D3 Landscape. Basically it allows NESCAC to increse or havean out of conference game along with Spring ball practices. Could this be the time where NESCAC adjusts there scheduling for this or allow winner to go on in D3 playoffs ?

Offline HSCTiger74

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18985 on: January 23, 2022, 01:15:26 pm »
Thanks for the recommendation. I've got to order that book.

Wow a great deal of changes in the D3 Landscape. Basically it allows NESCAC to increse or havean out of conference game along with Spring ball practices. Could this be the time where NESCAC adjusts there scheduling for this or allow winner to go on in D3 playoffs ?


   I’ve got to give you credit for persistence, Charlie. You’re going to keep flogging this horse until it decides to go ahead and move, aren’t you?
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Offline Charlie

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18986 on: January 23, 2022, 02:47:38 pm »
Thanks for the recommendation. I've got to order that book.

Wow a great deal of changes in the D3 Landscape. Basically it allows NESCAC to increse or havean out of conference game along with Spring ball practices. Could this be the time where NESCAC adjusts there scheduling for this or allow winner to go on in D3 playoffs ?





   I’ve got to give you credit for persistence, Charlie. You’re going to keep flogging this horse until it decides to go ahead and move, aren’t you?

Just did not know if new rules would create any type of change thats all.

Offline muleshoe

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #18987 on: January 24, 2022, 05:19:50 pm »
2022 NESCAC Schedule released! https://nescac.com/calendar.aspx?path=football&start=9/17/2022&end=11/12/2022

Surprisingly, the CBB got a shakeup with Colby-Bates on 10/1 and Bates-Bowdoin on 10/15. Colby-Bowdoin remains the last week of the season.