MBB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

Started by steelyglen, February 15, 2005, 09:11:21 PM

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hasanova

Quote from: donho on January 26, 2010, 04:39:40 PM
Hope the Jackets take care of business with W+L. Don't get caught looking ahead.
Looking at other games for wednesday I am thinking Lynchburg could give VWC some problems.
The Quakers also have a Wednesday trap game - Roanoke for us.  The Quakers blew away RC in Greensboro last week, but the Maroons have been our historical nemesis.  It would be easy to look ahead to Ashland on Saturday, but here's hoping they don't!

stillfamily

Coach Dean hands down COY if EMU keeps it up. POY won't go to Trawick unless they come back and finish top 3 in ODAC. He may turn in great nights, but if you put Sanborn, Henson, Phillips on that team with no surrounding cast you can inflate "their" numbers as well.  These players would easily play more minutes, shoot more shots and score more pts. These guys are doing it on elite teams with great surrounding casts. I also can't leave Fields out of the discussion. He is top notch for sure!!  With that being said, BC must win to have a POY. Look at all the POY's in the past decade or more, my guess is none of them came from a team that didn't finish top 3.
exodancer-
big players step up in big games. George Johnson had a bad game or games against BC. Every game is a big game, this is more of a rivalry game. A BIG game for EMU was when they played Macon the number 1 team in the nation and George went for 25pts. shooting 50% 3's. I would say thats stepping up in a big game. All this talk about his poor games vs. BC I hope he goes for 30 against BC next time.
Best wishes to Quantrell Simmmons. I hope he has a speedy recovery.

FISHTANKFAN

I agree with BIGRIPS77....I don't believe that VWC is out of the running yet....still a lot of basketball to play and the Marlins have beaten Guilford and RMC and a 3 point loss to EMU could be a 3 point win next time... I never count VWC out...I think back on last years ODAC tourney ..going in as a 6th seed if I remember correctly..and coming out the ODAC champs....That is what is great about ODAC basketball..take nothing for granted until the last shot has gone through the hoops....  On the COY issue...Kirby Dean is indeed on the short list and very worthy to be COY..but 2 more weeks of basketball will tell me which Coach gets my nod...

donho

  If the season would end right now and COY was based on games played to this date one would have to look at the whole picture that has been delivered by Coach Davis at Macon. Of the non-league games played, only one team (Ithink) has a losing record at 7-10. The other teams they have hung a L on are this week's #4 and #24. Plus two other teams that have recieved votes thru-out this season. Every team in the ODAC has at least one loss.
   One other thing to consider, if you noticed a couple days ago I responded to a post concerning All-ODAC teams. I gave my top six, and not one of them is from R-MC. Coach Davis is doing one hell of a job(IMHO) without the help of any outstanding players. Don't get me wrong they are not chopped liver, just no ,Hensons,Sanborns,Fields, Philips or Trawicks in the bunch.
   

Llamaguy

Quote from: deanslist on January 25, 2010, 07:36:16 PM
exodacer,

You said, "I dont think EMU has anyone who could be POY. Fields, Sanborn, Hinson, and Trawick are my top 4 but I dont think the Eagles will finish in the top 4 of the league." So are you saying it is just a two man race between Sanborn and Fields?

I read the article in the Daily News Record too this morning. I understand that BC has won 4 straight over EMU but, I don't see anything wrong with Johnson being confident about the return game at EMU in February. What do you expect him to say, well I think we'll have another poor shooting night and I'm afraid we'll be on the losing end. Plus, you don't really know how the reporter framed the question to Johnson during the interview.

Anyways, even though EMU lost at BC on Saturday the positives I see about the rematch for the Royals are it took a career night by Trawick (36 points) and about 10 points above his average from Jake Johnson (21 points) to win by 6. Plus I don't see the Runnin' Royals shooting that poorly from the 3 point line the rest of the season. In addition, it shows the depth EMU has this season on the offensive end that your First Team All ODAC player from a year ago as sophomore had an off shooting night and only lose by 6 on the road. As an EMU fan and looking at our  basketball history, it is nice to see our guys have confidence. Go EMU!

Lost by 6, but were down 14 with under 2 minutes to go. The game wasn't that close in the last 5 minutes. The only reason it was in the balance was due to a ton of foul shots missed by BC (30-48 made) and a late 3 by Crawford. I do like EMU's chances in the rematch for sure. Kirby graduated from my Alma mater so I will be pulling for him down the stretch in the ODAC.  ;)
"The Dali Llama"

Bridgewater Football 1980,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005 ODAC Champions!

algernon

Quote from: algernon on January 25, 2010, 12:54:19 PM
Quote from: bigrips77 on January 25, 2010, 09:55:44 AM
First, I think all four ODAC teams will stay within the Top 15  (Guilford #2, VWC #9, R-MC #10, EMU #13).

I agree, but think they'll all be within the Top 12:  Guilford #2, VWC #7, R-MC #8, EMU #12.

Quote from: hasanova on January 26, 2010, 09:20:07 AM
Poll's out:  2, 7, 9 and 11 - GC, VWC, RMC and EMU, respectively.  The best I've ever seen the ODAC - nice!

bigrips77:  Our predictions were pretty close to perfect! ....  :)

algernon

#11001
COY - Kirby Dean is a heavy favorite.  Although Nathan Davis has done a GREAT job, I think that he has inherited a very fine team -- recruited and trained by Coach Rhoades -- and must continue to show over the next few years that he is able to take a team he's been given and keep it at a solid level.  On top of that, if I thought it was a tough decision between the two coaches, I'd have to look at the fact that Dean's team beat Davis' team by 23 points when they played each other.

Coach Macedo -- excellent, as always, but the ODAC can't give it to him every year.

Coach Palumbo -- If Guilford wins out, it's hard not to give it to him again .... except for what Kirby Dean's accomplished at EMU.

Coach Vick -- If the Tigers finish strong while playing so many freshman, then Tiger fans can certainly hope that next year's recruiting class will be as strong as this one has been .... and that Coach Vick has a COY award coming to him at some time in the next couple years.  We're impressed by how well the Tigers have played against the #2, #7, and #9 teams in the country!

algernon

Quote from: bigrips77 on January 26, 2010, 09:08:16 AM
Quote from: hasanova on January 25, 2010, 11:08:22 PM
Just my opinion, but I think VWC's already shot themselves in the fin with losses at GC and EMU (head-to-head losses to the two teams that still only have one ODAC loss each).

You may be right when it comes to VWC not being able to pass Guilford since they've already played each other twice, but I think the Marlins actually have the most room for growth in the standings right now.  They have a road game at EMU and a home game vs. R-MC still on the schedule.  EMU only gets Guilford and R-MC once each, and the same thing applies for Guilford who only plays R-MC once this year.  While that may make it easier for the three other teams to traverse their way to Salem, I take the approach that it keeps VWC in control of its own destiny at the moment.

If VWC wins their last 7 games (a tall order for any ODAC team), they have a very reasonable shot at being the #1 seed in the ODAC tournament.  It would only take a loss by Guilford to EMU, RMC, HSC, or someone else, plus maybe a loss by EMU to Guilford, HSC, B'water (again) or someone else and the Marlins would win the #1 seed, maybe as a result of the point system ....   

ODACHOOPS

Algernon I don't have "loyalties" to anyone....I'm not insinuating that Harrison George is going to transfer to the ACC and I never said he would transfer Division 1 either, both assumptions on your part.  I couldn't care less what the freshman of the year history is for the past 20 years, obviously it's not a common move for D3 players to transfer to higher level programs, that's obvious.  My comment was "I would be shocked if Harrison George stayed at HSC for all 4 yrs."   Only time will tell..

Hasanova: Of course you would take Trawick on your team, bet you wouldn't start him over Bonner and Henson though.  He doesn't play for Guilford so obviously your not going to pick him as POY or even best guard in the ODAC.  That I am sure would go to Henson in your mind.  If anyone didn't pick a 6'10 250lb+ All-American big man at the DIII level as their "first pick" they are crazy.  However after him Trawick is clearly the 2nd pick and that is if we are using your "draft system."  Bridgewater isn't better then 6-9 because like I said before, they aren't that good! They are an average team with 1 super star on it.  The fact that he is dominating the ODAC on an average team while every other team is out to stop ONLY him is why he is the POY thus far. Teams that play GCQ have to focus on three guys - Henson can play off Sanborn, Bonner can play off Henson, Sanborn can play off both! - while teams that play BC need to stop just one - and he is still lighting up the league!

ODACHOOPS

Still Family...I disagree with you.  You put Henson, Phillips, Sanborn on that same exact Bridgewater team and none of them have the "inflated" numbers that you are arguing Trawick has.  Neither Henson nor Phillips (although both good players) have the ability to go one-on-one, create their own shot and rise up and hit contested shot after shot. Henson isn't neither as athletic as Trawick and Phillips isn't near as skilled and Trawick shoots the ball just as well as both of them. Sanborn may be the one exception due to his superior height on the DIII level, but even then Bridgewater has to have the guards to get him the ball as well as to demand such attention as Henson and Bonner do now that prevent teams from doubling Sanborn in the post.

Let's flip this around...Trawick on Guilford's team.  Consider what he is doing now for an average team with no supporting cast and his number's would be through the roof if you put him on say a Guilford, with the supporting cast they have to compliment one another. 

Brian Hamilton

Quote from: stillfamily on January 26, 2010, 06:34:04 PM
Look at all the POY's in the past decade or more, my guess is none of them came from a team that didn't finish top 3.

Actually, I think a few did come from teams that were not in the top 3.  The two I can think of are:

Justin Call at Emory &Henry
Kyle Williford at Bridgewater

You are correct that most usually come from top tier teams, but not always.  The year Call won HSC fans were disappointed because Jeff Monroe had a very good year as well and thought that he should have won because he played on a team that was 1st or 2nd in the conference (may have been tied with Macon).  So don't dismiss someone just because the team isn't great.  If the stats are convinving enough, they could be given the award.  Having said that, I think Trawick has an uphill battle ahead if he is going to win it.  His stats are not so overly impressive that he stands out.

hasanova

Quote from: ODACHOOPS on January 27, 2010, 08:11:02 AM
Still Family...I disagree with you.  You put Henson, Phillips, Sanborn on that same exact Bridgewater team and none of them have the "inflated" numbers that you are arguing Trawick has.  Neither Henson nor Phillips (although both good players) have the ability to go one-on-one, create their own shot and rise up and hit contested shot after shot. Henson isn't neither as athletic as Trawick and Phillips isn't near as skilled and Trawick shoots the ball just as well as both of them. Sanborn may be the one exception due to his superior height on the DIII level, but even then Bridgewater has to have the guards to get him the ball as well as to demand such attention as Henson and Bonner do now that prevent teams from doubling Sanborn in the post.

Let's flip this around...Trawick on Guilford's team.  Consider what he is doing now for an average team with no supporting cast and his number's would be through the roof if you put him on say a Guilford, with the supporting cast they have to compliment one another. 
Is there a different Clay Henson that you've seen play besides the one I see play a dozen times a year?  If anyone has the ability to "go one-on-one, create their own shot and rise up and hit contested shot after shot," it's Clay Henson.  

Actually, if Trawick played with any two of the three Guilford players you cite (Henson, Bonner and Sanborn), his numbers would probably go down.  When everyone scores 15-20 ppg, no one usually gets 30-35.  If Henson played on the "exact same BC team" that's Trawick's supporting cast, he would carry the same heavy load that Dom carries - and he'd also be scoring more than the 18.7 ppg he has now (just behind Sanborn's 19.0 ppg).

Look, Trawick's a great player - everyone (including me!) says so.  He's just not the first player in the league any coach would take to start a team.  You're right, any DIII coach would salivate at the chance to get Tyler Sanborn as the nucleus for his team.  Now, does that mean Dom Trawick's the 2nd player chosen?  I still respectfully say no.

HSCfan

What a fun debate...Player of the Year vs. Most Valuable Player! As has already been stated, Player of the Year tends to mean "best overall player" while obviously, Most Valuable Player refers to that player who, if taken away from his team, would generate the most negative impact.

Tough to determine, but I would guess if you polled ODAC coaches, they would say that the one player who strikes the most fear is Dom Trawick. Why? Because he can do what he did to EMU - and he has done it many times in the past. He truly elevates his team to new heights, a team that by all other standards is very very average in the ODAC. His game is complete, and while his skills are nowhere close (trust me, not suggesting any physical resemblance here!), his impact to his team is very similar to what Michael Jordan did with the Bulls. Now, BC is not winning titles, but like Jordan, Trawick elevates the level of play of his teammates, and when he must, has the uncanny ability to put the team on his shoulders and carry it to a win. In a way, he IS the best player in the ODAC (when you take into account his athletic ability + shooting touch + rebounding ability + post-up game + will to win) AND the Most Valuable to his team when compared to any one other player in the league.

Now, all of this is coming from an outsider looking in from afar, but it is an interesting debate. The age old facts suggest that the POY will come from a top-tier team in the league, and when it boils down to it, maybe you cannot argue that because those teams are where they are due to the great play of individuals. Still, it will be fun to see what happens when the winner is announced!

My "outsider-looking in picks" (not predictions):

POY: Trawick, BC - For his entire career, he has carried the Eagles and so often come through when its counted with 30-plus point games. Truly a terror to have to prepare for because his skill set is so diverse (plus is he not a mirror image of Dwyane Wade??). This is not a career achievement award, I understand that, but in my opinion, he is the best there is in the league.

COY: Dean, EMU - Slowly but surely, Kirby has turned little ol' EMU into a national power. How did he do it? By staying true to his philosophies as a coach, slowly getting his kids to believe, and then arming them with the confidence that yes, they can beat anyone even though they may not have the size, the highly-touted players, or the tradition of some other ODAC powers. They are fun to watch and a team that can truly beat anyone on any given night. And boy are they explosive!

ROY: "Homer Pick!" George, HSC - Eventually, he will develop into a walking double-double (he almost already is) and he is the athlete that the Tigers have been missing the past several years. If only Turner King had one more season...do you think teams would like to see a King, George, Jessee combo? With Ward running the point for the future, this will be an athletic team that can shoot the rock. But for now, George, in my opinion, is the league's top rookie.

HSCfan

Quote from: hasanova on January 27, 2010, 09:47:15 AM
You're right, any DIII coach would salivate at the chance to get Tyler Sanborn as the nucleus for his team.  Now, does that mean Dom Trawick's the 2nd player chosen?  I still respectfully say no.

Wouldn't it be fun to start on ODAC Fantasy Basketball League? ;D

I sure wouldn't want the first pick, since I think I could get a couple of picks in the first round and a second round selection from Hasanova for Sanborn at No. 1 ;)

FISHTANKFAN

Algernon    Just for the record  Coach Macedo has been honored only ONCE in his 10 years as a head coach of VWC as COY of the ODAC.  He has been honored by many other associations however many times.  I just checked his coaches profile on the VWC site.  He is probably one of the best coaches the ODAC has ever seen in his short tenure in the ODAC yet this honor has escaped him except for the year he won the national title in 2005-06.  Again this year , he has proven himself, taking a young team from a 17-13 record last year to a 16-2 record this year.  Macedo, along with Coach Davis, Palumbo and Dean all deserve consideration this year. I agree that Coach Dean is leading the pack at this moment but I would not leave out the other coaches until the regular season is over.