D3 Recruiting

Started by Another Mom, August 10, 2019, 04:41:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Another Mom

Quote from: EB2319 on January 17, 2020, 10:19:53 AM

So, how's it going?

So far, so good, I believe. My son cast a wide net and so there are many coaches to juggle. It is a time consuming process!

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Couple of things of note:

- as noted, there are official and unofficial visits. Official visits in DIII also include at least one meal voucher for student and sometimes family (each school may have its own limitations) and can be an overnight stay. I always get lost on this, but I think sometimes some of the travel expenses are covered ... but don't quote me on that. An unofficial visit basically is the prospective student is on site and can interact with the team, but the coaches and team can't pay for anything at all. It is all on the student and their family.
- "practices" while recruits are on campus, especially for any "official" visit. As noted, the coaches cannot participate and the practices cannot be formal too organized ("tryouts" in DIII are strictly forbidden and any changes to those rules have been shot down several times in recent NCAA Conventions where DIII institutions vote on these things). The liability kind of disappears when it is just students getting together to kick the ball around and such. And no recruit should feel pressure to participate either. A 'report' back to coach about the recruits is also a gray area. While certainly a coach and players may talk about recruits, I do not believe there can be any report about their skills and such as it can be misconstrued into a tryout.

This has come to a head in DIII mainly thanks to UW-Stevens Point men's basketball in recent years. They were found guilty of illegal practices AND illegal practices, with coaches involved, with at least 11 recruits. As a result, UWSP got rid of "official" visits for at least four years for the program plus a lot of other sanctions from the school and the NCAA (Division III decides it's own punishments to be clear).

One other note, no high school player will receive a commitment from a coach their junior year for the reasons already mentioned (admissions is a major role in DIII), but also because recruits can't even be talked to until January 1 of their junior year - though rereading the DIII Manual, that may have changed in the last year to the end of their sophomore year (the rules went through a rash of changes and I honestly lost track). So, juniors are players DIII coaches are just starting to learn about and talk to .. it is hard to make any commitments to them at that point. But as also pointed out, there are so many things that can derail any commitment, even one made by a student.

But a DIII commitment by a coach doesn't mean much anyway. In DI, that commitment comes with saying they have a slot on the team because the coaching staff has rationed out scholarship money of some kind. So that D1 is committing their resources, literally, to that student. In DIII, coaches don't have money to promise and they technically could take any student who walks on campus to play. Their commitment of whether they will play once any tryouts or cuts are made.

I hope that makes sense. The DIII experience is supposed to be less pressure across the board for all parties. It would be nice if DI would take some of DIII's rules and applied them (like no contact until junior year) as I think it would help students' lives in high school be less hectic and more enjoyable.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Another Mom

D3 coaches can be in touch with prospective players before their junior year. In fact I *thought* d3 had no restrictions (unlike D1 which can contact after June 15 after sophomore year). Several d3 coaches were in conversation with my son his sophomore year.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Another Mom on January 17, 2020, 03:41:58 PM
D3 coaches can be in touch with prospective players before their junior year. In fact I *thought* d3 had no restrictions (unlike D1 which can contact after June 15 after sophomore year). Several d3 coaches were in conversation with my son his sophomore year.

It may be face-to-face or not allowed at all. I really need to check back into it. There are restrictions. It wasn't that long ago DIII couldn't talk to a student until they finished their junior year - not kidding.

I'll double-check, because like I said a lot has changed in the last few years. I do know their are restrictions ... here is the bylaws stright from the the DIII Manual:

Quote13.1 Contacts and Evaluations.
Recruiting contacts with a prospective student-athlete (or the prospective student-athlete's relatives or guardians) by institutional staff members and/or representatives of the institution's athletics interests are subject to the provisions set forth in this bylaw.
13.1.1 Contactable Prospective Student-Athletes.
13.1.1.1 High School Prospective Student-Athletes.
In-person, off-campus recruiting contacts shall not be made with a prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete's relatives or guardian(s) until the prospective student-athlete has completed his or her sophomore year in high school. U.S. service academy exceptions to this provision are set forth in Bylaw 13.15.1.

The trick being contact that isn't in person. That is the gray area I need to brush up on because it has become a gray area for me at least.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

#19
I checked with a coach - non-face-to-face conversations, recruiting can take place prior to their junior year. Just to clarify.

I am not a fan of that ... but that is a topic for another time.

UPDATE: I may have gotten ahead of myself. If a student calls a DIII coach/program, the coach can pick up the phone and chat. However, a coach cannot initiate a conversation with a student-athlete prior to their junior year. And that is June 15 following their sophomore year.

So, any convos prior to that point after their sophomore year, the coach cannot start. It has to be started by the student.

I'm not sure what convos your son had, but if a DIII coach or the staff is reaching out to your son prior to June 15 after his sophomore year even if it is by phone ... it is a violation. "It must be a sequence of student initiated conversations," according to one coach I've spoken with for clarification.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Flying Weasel

Disclaimer: I have no personal insight into the recruiting process or rules besides my ability to read the D-III Manual.

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 17, 2020, 04:04:14 PMI checked with a coach - non-face-to-face conversations, recruiting can take place prior to their junior year. Just to clarify.

I am not a fan of that ... but that is a topic for another time.

UPDATE: I may have gotten ahead of myself. If a student calls a DIII coach/program, the coach can pick up the phone and chat. However, a coach cannot initiate a conversation with a student-athlete prior to their junior year. And that is June 15 following their sophomore year.

So, any convos prior to that point after their sophomore year, the coach cannot start. It has to be started by the student.

I'm not sure what convos your son had, but if a DIII coach or the staff is reaching out to your son prior to June 15 after his sophomore year even if it is by phone ... it is a violation. "It must be a sequence of student initiated conversations," according to one coach I've spoken with for clarification.

So where in the D-III Manual do these restrictions come from? The articles you quoted specifically mention "in-person, off-campus recruiting contact".  It does not mention in-person on-campus contact or phone calls or electronic correspondence.  It also does not mention a specific date, just "completion of sophomore year".  Is there somewhere else in the Manual that the restrictions you are mentioning are covered? Are there official clarifications or interpretations provided outside the D-III Manual?

I'm not trying to be argumentative because as I said, I know very little about recruiting.  I'm just trying to make sense of what you are saying in light of what I read (and don't read) in the D-III Manual.  For example, I wasn't finding any mention of who initiates contact in the Manual, and that being the difference between whether it is permissible or not.

Here are some other articles in the Manual that are somewhat related.

Quote13.02.10 Telephone Calls. All electronically transmitted human voice exchange (including videoconfer-
encing and videophones) shall be considered telephone calls. All electronically transmitted correspondence (e.g.,
electronic mail, facsimiles, instant messaging, text messaging and social networking websites) shall not be consid-
ered telephone calls.
       13.02.10.1 Timing of Telephone Calls. There are no restrictions on the timing of telephone calls to pro-
       spective student-athletes. See Bylaw 13.1.3 for information on permissible callers.
13.02.11 Electronic Transmissions. Any electronically transmitted correspondence (e.g., electronic mail,
Instant Messenger, private communication through social media platforms, text messages or facsimiles) may be
sent to a prospective student-athlete (or his or her parents or legal guardians) provided the communication is
private between only the sender and recipient (e.g., no use of public chat rooms, message boards, public commu-
nication through social media platforms). An enrolled student-athlete may send private electronic correspondence
(e.g., electronic mail, Instant Messenger, private communication through social media platforms, text messages
or facsimiles) to a prospective student-athlete for recruitment purposes.
       13.02.11.1 Timing of Electronic Transmissions. There are no restrictions on the timing for sending pri-
       vate electronic correspondence (e.g., electronic mail, Instant Messenger, text messages or facsimiles) to prospec-
       tive student-athletes.

Quote13.1.3 Telephone Calls to Prospective Student-Athletes. An institution may permit a student-ath-
lete, a staff member, or a representative of athletics interests to telephone a prospective student-athlete at the insti-
tution's expense at any time, provided the call is only for the purpose of recruitment and is with full knowledge of
the athletics department (see Bylaw 13.02.5.1).

Another Mom

Most were initiated by my son when he shared his tournament schedule.  One coach called him in 9th grade but thought he was a junior, so it was an innocent mistake.

Another Mom

Here's my latest observation: some coaches/programs are super enthusiastic and some more guarded. Obviously sometimes that indicates a lower level of interest, but sometimes I think it just reflects that some programs are better at recruiting.  If the coach says flattering things/is enthusiastic of course the player will feel more enthusiastic about the program! Would guess that means those coaches are more likely to get the recruits they want. I notice that the things needed to be a good recruiting program are thought and effort,  something any coach can do.

It's the more highly ranked programs that are doing this, which is counterintuitive,  those are the programs that could be more picky,  I would think.

I should offer to consult with coaches when this is all over (kidding! -- sort of:-)  )


s0ccerM0mma

I am not sure if this should be its own thread but I am curious whether coaches are cancelling recruiting travel due to the Coronavirus. My DS's team is scheduled to be at the Las Vegas Showcase this weekend and the organizers are claiming no coaches - and very few teams -  have pulled out. We will likely  stay home regardless but I'd like to get information from a source other than the tournament director. D3 coaches listed as attending on the website include Amherst, Connecticut College, Case Western, CMU, Colby, Colorado College, Kenyon, Middlebury and on and on. Any honest insights appreciated.

College Soccer Observer

https://playersshowcase.com/ 

Tournament cancelled.  Most organized soccer events in the country have been suspended.  DA Academy and USYS Conference events suspended for at least a month.

Another Mom

The NCAA has also banned all in person recruiting.

I wonder if this current situation means coaches will have to make decisions with less information (ie no spring showcases or ID camps).

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Another Mom on March 14, 2020, 09:13:53 AM
The NCAA has also banned all in person recruiting.

I wonder if this current situation means coaches will have to make decisions with less information (ie no spring showcases or ID camps).

DI has canceled all in-person recruiting. I do not believe DIII has made a decision on that. There was tweet earlier today from DIII's VP about the fact that many national media (*cough* ESPN *cough*) were taking DI decisions as if they were NCAA-wide, which is inaccurate.

Tweet: https://twitter.com/ddutcher2000/status/1238871357875724295
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Vasoccer757

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 14, 2020, 01:47:59 PM
Quote from: Another Mom on March 14, 2020, 09:13:53 AM
The NCAA has also banned all in person recruiting.

I wonder if this current situation means coaches will have to make decisions with less information (ie no spring showcases or ID camps).

DI has canceled all in-person recruiting. I do not believe DIII has made a decision on that. There was tweet earlier today from DIII's VP about the fact that many national media (*cough* ESPN *cough*) were taking DI decisions as if they were NCAA-wide, which is inaccurate.

Tweet: https://twitter.com/ddutcher2000/status/1238871357875724295

Whether DIII follows suit or not may-be a moot point as most club and high schools have halted most activities. I guess this will open the door to some inventive in-person recruiting tactics by the schools that are able to keep working.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Vasoccer757 on March 16, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 14, 2020, 01:47:59 PM
Quote from: Another Mom on March 14, 2020, 09:13:53 AM
The NCAA has also banned all in person recruiting.

I wonder if this current situation means coaches will have to make decisions with less information (ie no spring showcases or ID camps).

DI has canceled all in-person recruiting. I do not believe DIII has made a decision on that. There was tweet earlier today from DIII's VP about the fact that many national media (*cough* ESPN *cough*) were taking DI decisions as if they were NCAA-wide, which is inaccurate.

Tweet: https://twitter.com/ddutcher2000/status/1238871357875724295

Whether DIII follows suit or not may-be a moot point as most club and high schools have halted most activities. I guess this will open the door to some inventive in-person recruiting tactics by the schools that are able to keep working.

DIII has never had a recruiting calendar based primarily on the fact that there are so many part-time coaches (especially assistants) or those who have other responsibilities within the department or outside the job altogether. Thus, a calendar would be a real challenge.

I believe this decision revolved around much of the same. If schools individually (or conferences) want to shut this stuff down, that is on them for sure ... with the understanding how it could impact them in the future. Granted, many things may be shutdown as you mentioned ... but I believe this decision sticks with the DIII thinking that schools and conferences can make their own decisions on stuff like this.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Another Mom

If there are no summer ID Clinics or other events, as may be the case, what do you think will happen with the rising seniors  (class of 2021)? I'm guessing that coaches will have to make decisions using the information they already have. Thoughts?