MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

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Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: augie77 on March 18, 2020, 07:44:51 PM
Does anyone really believe Johns Hopkins made a rash decision devoid of well-considered medical considerations?

No.  I just think they weren't honest about what they were doing or why.  That may also have prudent - those JHU folks are pretty smart - but it was a lose-lose PR situation.  In the end, not saying "we're worried about Yeshiva fans who may unknowingly transmit the virus," was probably better than saying it, but better doesn't make it right.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

augie77

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 18, 2020, 09:59:31 PM
Quote from: augie77 on March 18, 2020, 07:44:51 PM
Does anyone really believe Johns Hopkins made a rash decision devoid of well-considered medical considerations?

No.  I just think they weren't honest about what they were doing or why.  That may also have prudent - those JHU folks are pretty smart - but it was a lose-lose PR situation.  In the end, not saying "we're worried about Yeshiva fans who may unknowingly transmit the virus," was probably better than saying it, but better doesn't make it right.

If they took the better of two courses, where did their reaction fall short?  What would be "right".

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: augie77 on March 18, 2020, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 18, 2020, 09:59:31 PM
Quote from: augie77 on March 18, 2020, 07:44:51 PM
Does anyone really believe Johns Hopkins made a rash decision devoid of well-considered medical considerations?

No.  I just think they weren't honest about what they were doing or why.  That may also have prudent - those JHU folks are pretty smart - but it was a lose-lose PR situation.  In the end, not saying "we're worried about Yeshiva fans who may unknowingly transmit the virus," was probably better than saying it, but better doesn't make it right.

If they took the better of two courses, where did their reaction fall short?  What would be "right".

Sometimes there is only the best of numerous bad choices.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

augie77

That's the truth.  It just didn't seem right beating up Johns Hopkins for their proactive approach.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

No one beat on them for taking a proactive approach ... but as one who lives in Maryland I knew right away their reason wasn't valid. As one person close to the situation described it to me, the Maryland cases (which were first reported the night before the games) gave Hopkins a "convenient cover" for their decision to shut the doors to the games.

No, they couldn't figure out if the Yeshiva fans were coming from New York area or had any contact with those who had come back positive for the virus. They also couldn't tell if anyone else had been exposed or if anyone had had the virus and could easily transmit it. But they couldn't determine that with 2100 fans at a lacrosse game who are sitting close to one another, not practicing any social distancing, hanging out at pre-game tailgates, or even at the concession stands getting something to eat. They didn't know where the visiting fans were coming from either. And in the bathrooms who knows if anyone is infected and standing near someone gets them infected. Just because it was an outdoor game (as was baseball that weekend) didn't suddenly make that cause or the threat different. It just doesn't.

On top of that, NO other event in Maryland followed Hopkins' lead ... including the state high school wrestling championships which were being held IN the county (near DC, not near Hopkins) and University of Maryland which had a big-time men's basketball game at home (near the country where the infected cases were located; and where fans were very likely to be coming from) that same weekend. Maryland's governor (who has been doing a very good job throughout all of this) didn't call for events to be shutdown as of yet due to the three cases. He certainly mentioned that it needed to start being considered. But the Maryland cases at the time were isolated and didn't need to be a reason for shutting things down in general.

Now, add in that you are unsure about fans coming from New York? I get it. There now becomes an unknown from a far bigger threat.

Side note: after the Yeshiva game, they disinfected the gym. All of us had to get out of the gym for at least an hour. However, after the second game, I was in the gym for a long time doing an interview and further work. I was one of the last to walk out well over an hour after the game ended. There were no signs or indications they planned to disinfect the gym. If they were going to wait for the next day (let's say that was the plan), it would have been too late.

I didn't and don't have a problem with Hopkins closing the doors for due diligence. My problem was their reasoning didn't stand up to both the reality, their actions, nor the plan. Everything but the press release pointed to Yeshiva (including the nearly 90 minute delay to the first game) and their cases. And sending out a press release about it at 11:15 PM that night is also a way to duck the reality. They knew it was too late for media to cover that fact. They knew for HOURS prior that was the decision and waited until all the nightly local news programs had gotten out of their coronavirus coverage and out of their first blocks of news (basically in weather and thus into the back-end of their shows with no one around to handle a major announcement) to say they were closing the doors.

As an aside, I do NOT blame or have issues with most of those in the Athletics Department. I know this was a higher administration decision. The others were simply messengers or caught in the middle. That sucks for them - many of whom I know. I have said from the beginning, they aren't the ones who should take the heat. It is the ones who supposedly know how to handle these things including being honest with the public ... who seemed to not live up to their own standards in this case.

Just explain the reasons (all if necessary, especially if there is more than one). Take the heat for that and be in the right. Don't try and point in a different direction that doesn't hold up to reality and end up being questioned for either overreacting (which they weren't) or not telling the entire truth.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

WUPHF

I am sorry, but you still have offered no evidence that Johns Hopkins misled, intentionally or otherwise, the public. Just speculation.

For the one person close to you who point out that the cases in Maryland were reported on Thursday night, is it possible that the new before the general public?  It seems to me that they were likely to be among the first to know.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

Quote from: WUPHF on March 20, 2020, 01:46:04 PM
I am sorry, but you still have offered no evidence that Johns Hopkins misled, intentionally or otherwise, the public. Just speculation.

For the one person close to you who point out that the cases in Maryland were reported on Thursday night, is it possible that the new before the general public?  It seems to me that they were likely to be among the first to know.

It's not a court case.  There's no evidence.  Everything points to them singling out the team coming from NYC (which is also what Amherst did the same weekend).  In hindsight, that was almost certainly the right thing to do, for both schools.  They simply chose not to say it - which is also fine.  They likely concluded (again, speculation), that making the general statement about MD cases would be less disruptive to Yeshiva and cause less panic - also probably true.

I think both Dave and I have no concluded JHU probably did the best thing they could, but that still doesn't make it less dishonest.  They prioritized public response and general safety over clarity and honesty.  Sometimes you have to do that.  It doesn't sit well with me, but I respect their decision.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

WUPHF

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."
Christopher Hitchens

kiko

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 19, 2020, 02:09:47 PM
No one beat on them for taking a proactive approach ...

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 19, 2020, 02:09:47 PM
On top of that, NO other event in Maryland followed Hopkins' lead ... including the state high school wrestling championships which were being held IN the county (near DC, not near Hopkins) and University of Maryland which had a big-time men's basketball game at home (near the country where the infected cases were located; and where fans were very likely to be coming from) that same weekend. Maryland's governor (who has been doing a very good job throughout all of this) didn't call for events to be shutdown as of yet due to the three cases. He certainly mentioned that it needed to start being considered. But the Maryland cases at the time were isolated and didn't need to be a reason for shutting things down in general.

Two paragraphs apart in the same post.

Titan Q

#52959
Two questions...

#1 - Who is the CCIW favorite in 2020-21 -- Elmhurst or Illinois Wesleyan?

Elmhurst (25-5, 11-5)
In end-of-year rotation...
G - Jake Rhode, 5-11/160 Jr. (20.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 4.1 apg)  1st Team All-CCIW
F - Derek Dotlich, 6-3/215 Sr. (15.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg)  2nd Team All-CCIW
F - Lavon Thomas, 6-5/260 Jr. (13.5 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 2.0 apg)  2nd Team All-CCIW
G - Jay Milletello, 6-4/215 Jr. (8.9 ppg, 5.9 rpg)
G - Dominic Genco, 6-3/180 Jr. (7.1 ppg, 2.8 rpg)
G - Wesley Hooker, 6-2/175 Fr. (5.3 ppg, 2.9 rpg)
G - Nick Perry, 5-11/180 Jr. (4.5 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 2.5 apg)
C - Ebrahim Jobe, 6-9/210 Jr. (4.5 ppg, 5.1 ppg)
F - Hunter Merritt, 6-4/215 So. (2.7 ppg)
F - Jonathan Zapinski, 6-6/215 Fr. (2.3 ppg)


Illinois Wesleyan (19-9, 11-5)
In end-of-year rotation...
G - Peter Lambesis, 6-4/195 So. (12.3 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 3.4 apg)  2nd Team All-CCIW
G - Keondre Schumacher, 5-11/175 So. (12.0 ppg, 1.7 apg)
F - Doug Wallen, 6-5/210 Jr. (11.2 ppg, 5.6 rpg)
F - Matt Leritz, 6-7/235 So. (10.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg)  1st Team All-CCIW
G - Cory Noe, 6-2/175 So. (8.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg)
C - Alex O'Neill, 6-9/245 Sr. (2.5 ppg, 2.1 rpg)
G - Colin Cheaney, 6-4/190 Jr. (2.1 ppg)
F - Cody Mitchell, 6-7/205 Fr. (2.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg)
G - Bernie Coderre, 6-4/200 Sr. (1.0 ppg)

Returning from injury...
G - Grant Wolfe, 5-11/185 Jr. (18.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 3.6 apg)
G - Luke Yoder, 6-0/170 Fr. (10.4 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 2.3 apg)  CCIW Freshman of the Year
F - Charlie Bair, 6-7/220 Jr. (9.0 ppg, 8.3)


#2 - Where should these teams be ranked in the 2020-21 D3hoops.com Preseason Top 25?



Gregory Sager

Quote from: augie77 on March 21, 2020, 09:48:24 AM
https://www.nwherald.com/2020/03/19/basketball-jacobs-grad-crishawn-orange-returns-home-from-overseas-league/ag0l2kz/?fbclid=IwAR15hbLD0TYrG_lE73xLVRxJZ0_V9MxjuYTxYFkiDVf3r1gwcMzGLoRgYFM

Here's an update on Augustana grad Crishawn Orange who is back from playing professionally in Tbilisi in the European country of Georgia.

Nice article, but the writer ought to stick to the subject of basketball, or else improve his fact-checking skills. Georgian is not only not similar to Russian, it isn't even an Indo-European language like Russian or English. It's in a completely different language family.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

WUPHF

Not to mention that fact Georgia is an Asian nation.

Culturally, Georgia is much closer to Eastern Europe than most of Asia though.

Georgia does have a Russian speaking minority and the players may have studied Russian prior to 2008 when the two nations went to war over a few break-away provinces.  Chances are good the players understand some but not all of the Russian for these reasons...

21 points and 8 rebounds is impressive in any league, but I am not surprised to see those stats.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)


Georgia is in Europe for FIFA purposes.  Probably fair to call it a transitional nation.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: kiko on March 21, 2020, 12:09:38 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 19, 2020, 02:09:47 PM
No one beat on them for taking a proactive approach ...

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 19, 2020, 02:09:47 PM
On top of that, NO other event in Maryland followed Hopkins' lead ... including the state high school wrestling championships which were being held IN the county (near DC, not near Hopkins) and University of Maryland which had a big-time men's basketball game at home (near the country where the infected cases were located; and where fans were very likely to be coming from) that same weekend. Maryland's governor (who has been doing a very good job throughout all of this) didn't call for events to be shutdown as of yet due to the three cases. He certainly mentioned that it needed to start being considered. But the Maryland cases at the time were isolated and didn't need to be a reason for shutting things down in general.

Two paragraphs apart in the same post.

Different points ... I am not beating them for closing the doors ... AGAIN.

I had a problem with their honesty and the reasoning for the decision. They said "we have cases in Maryland" but their actions where "we don't know about Yeshiva and their cases, and the Maryland cases are just our cover."

Again ... I didn't even have a problem with them closing the doors at the time. As I have said on these boards and on air MANY times (and even said to others in person), closing the doors and saying it was because of Yeshiva and the unknown contact with reported cases ... it would have sucked, but I would have understood and gotten it. However, they closed the doors and said "there are cases in Maryland." While then conducting business as usual everywhere else on campus, only disinfecting the gym after the Yeshiva game, and other facts.

As Ryan stated, I understood the decision and I was disappointed ... but my problem was with the reason given. Those two things CAN exist together. They do NOT have to be mutually exclusive. It is like saying "I support police and the work that they do, but I also hold police to a higher standard and will call them out if they do wrong." You can do both.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.