NESCAC

Started by LaPaz, September 11, 2011, 05:54:52 PM

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Nutmeg

I tend to agree. While some USSDA teams are stronger than others, most are stronger than the next club level and play better competition.....

PaulNewman

The Tufts GK played for Bolts DAP for 1 or 2 years max.  Spent most of his youth club career with a regular fairly high level non-DAP team.  No question that a DAP player is probably a good to very good player and a pretty safe bet, especially for D3.  It is certainly a resume enhancer and no doubt catches the eye of D3 coaches and helps kids get a nice jump and foot in the door in terms of recruitment.  May help in getting some kids a boost with admissions at tougher schools.  Coaches like to talk about how their programs are attracting DAP players.  That said, DAP status does not necessarily tell you a lot about a kid's hunger going forward or provide a guarantee that a school is getting someone who will be an impact player.  And DAP certainly wasn't created to be a breeding ground for D3 players.

Would be interesting to take the two All-American lists and see how many were part of DAP and how many were not.

MENESCACFAN

Certainly doesn't tell you about hunger, but what does?  I think you summarize it by saying a USSDA player is a safe bet and likely a good to very good player.  It is also true that a USSDA consistently practice and plays against better competition.  It is also a recruiting status symbol if you will to attract those kids widely perceived as D1 territory. 

If you use the All-American lists for all 3 divisions would be interesting yes.  Silly just to use D3 though.  The division attracts less USSDA players, so there will be less in the Al-American team proving not much at all.  In D1, I expect the vast majority to be USSDA.

PaulNewman

No question about D1.  Probably 85% or more are from DAP.  But most of us here are more interested in D3, correct?  When DAP players are choosing D3 and/or those choosing D3 are coming from the bottom 1/3 or bottom half of DAP rosters that's when I think the motivation of the player is a little more complicated.  And in New England especially there tends to be significant overlap between DAP and the New England prep school scene.  And I agree that the training and competition are better.  That said, I've seen DAP kids who have peaked and are using the DAP status to some extent to access a good D3 school.  Not all of them turn out to be studs even in D3.

MENESCACFAN

We are interested in D3 yes, but realize D1 is a higher level of competition.  So when things like level of player come up D1 a very relevant comparison.  To suggest a player is on the bottom third of a USSDA roster is more unmotivated than a top end non-USSDA player holds no weight at all for me.

Not all turn out to be studs, but I do not understand the resistance to the train of thought that USSDA is superior to non-USSDA.  All question marks (motivation, not all pan out) are not USSDA problems, they are teenage kid problems.  I would guess every NESCAC school wants USSDA kids very year, and many D3 teams can't touch them.

PaulNewman

I have no problem acknowledging that DAP is superior, and for those seeking D1 it is a no-brainer and arguably a necessity.  The question I have for D3 is to what extent it is overkill and a status symbol for players and D3 coaches.  DAP was never intended to be a bridge to Bowdoin or Middlebury.  But it is being used by some percentage of DAP participants for that kind of purpose, especially in New England.  Nothing wrong with that I suppose, and no question that those players are going to have an edge heading into their frosh years.  They are going to benefit from a more than fair look from their college coach, but in the long run they still have to produce.  The coach isn't going to just keep playing you based on your resume.  I think that's all I meant by motivation.  Kids have to produce, and you can't always predict how all of the new experiences and opportunities of college are going to impact the soccer piece.

Corazon

Of course USSDA is a higher level. It is the highest level in US youth club soccer. I can not believe there are people who think other New England club teams can beat Bolts or Seacoast U18 Academy. That notion simply boggles the mind.

Of course, not every Academy player will be an impact player at the D3 level but if you see that they  are a starter or get considerable playing time at the U18 level, very high likelihood they'll be an impact player in the NESCAC before they graduate. I've seen many, many USSDA games as well as quite a few club games in New England and you simply can not compare the 2 levels. There are some very good players who do not play Academy for various reasons but you can not compare club vs Acadmy teams. They simply are not close.

Corazon

Most USSDA players go D1. Almost every USSDA player has D1 options. They may not be the right ones, but most have multiple D1 options. When my older son was going through the recruiting process, we only targeted a few Ivies and NESCAC.  Most incoming D1 interest were from schools we viewed as non-starters. Not too much incoming NESCAC, but once we made contact, he pretty much had his pick. What we also encountered was that his Academy club tried heavily influencing him into going D1 regardless of academic fit. They could not fathom voluntarily going D3. This is what the NESCAC coaches are competing with.

Corazon

Of the three incoming New England based USSDA players, I've seen 2 play several times and know them pretty well through reputation (I'm a year removed from intimately knowing this class).  I fully expect both Mitchell (Colby), a creative midfielder/winger and Stevens (Tufts), a rugged defender, DM Type, will be impact NESCAC players, perhaps even right away. I have not seen Weatherbie play much (except a couple of times in prep school) but believe he is pretty solid too.

Brother Flounder

Quote from: NCAC New England on February 14, 2015, 09:04:11 AM
The Tufts GK played for Bolts DAP for 1 or 2 years max.  Spent most of his youth club career with a regular fairly high level non-DAP team.  No question that a DAP player is probably a good to very good player and a pretty safe bet, especially for D3.  It is certainly a resume enhancer and no doubt catches the eye of D3 coaches and helps kids get a nice jump and foot in the door in terms of recruitment.  May help in getting some kids a boost with admissions at tougher schools.  Coaches like to talk about how their programs are attracting DAP players.  That said, DAP status does not necessarily tell you a lot about a kid's hunger going forward or provide a guarantee that a school is getting someone who will be an impact player.  And DAP certainly wasn't created to be a breeding ground for D3 players.

Would be interesting to take the two All-American lists and see how many were part of DAP and how many were not.

Agreed

Brother Flounder

Quote from: MENESCACFAN on February 14, 2015, 09:09:40 AM
Certainly doesn't tell you about hunger, but what does?  I think you summarize it by saying a USSDA player is a safe bet and likely a good to very good player.  It is also true that a USSDA consistently practice and plays against better competition.  It is also a recruiting status symbol if you will to attract those kids widely perceived as D1 territory. 

If you use the All-American lists for all 3 divisions would be interesting yes.  Silly just to use D3 though.  The division attracts less USSDA players, so there will be less in the Al-American team proving not much at all.  In D1, I expect the vast majority to be USSDA.

Agreed

Nutmeg

There are some D3 USSDA players that are better than some D1 USSDA players that opt to play for various D3 schools that are religious or highly recognized educational institutions. And, it doesn't matter where you played youth for heart and hunger as that generally comes from within....

Nutmeg

I also would like to know how many USSDA players were on the National Champion, Tufts, just for curiosity sake.... Does anyone know?

Nutmeg

Quote from: MENESCACFAN on February 14, 2015, 12:05:54 AM
Not sure about the Boston Bolts comment.  The Tufts starting goalkeeper came from that academy.  If you read through D1 commitment pages, it is very obvious the better college players are coming from the USSDA system.  While there are exceptions, the concentration of talent is far higher and therefore kids are more college ready in most cases.  Seacoast recently produced freshman starters at Northeastern and Dartmouth.

Also agree on this.....

Jump4Joy

Quote from: Nutmeg on February 14, 2015, 04:49:44 PM
I also would like to know how many USSDA players were on the National Champion, Tufts, just for curiosity sake.... Does anyone know?
Off the top of my head, the MA DAPs include: Greenwood, Miele, Kramer, Santos