D3 vs. NAIA

Started by Ralph Turner, August 28, 2005, 10:32:37 PM

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K-Mack

Week 8
BV 41, Waldorf 0
No. 11 Wesley 42, Webber Intl 13
at SOU 40, No. 3 UMHB 28

not sure of the home/aways of the top two, but no one seems to mind. :)
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
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Ralph Turner

Quote from: K-Mack on October 29, 2008, 12:50:15 AM
Week 8
at BV 41, Waldorf 0
No. 11 Wesley 42, at Webber Intl 13
at SOU 40, No. 3 UMHB 28

not sure of the home/aways of the top two, but no one seems to mind. :)
;)

K-Mack


Forfeits knock NW Oklahoma out of NAIA playoffs
    ALVA, Okla. (AP) — Northwestern Oklahoma State will not play its scheduled NAIA quarterfinal game at defending national champion Carroll College on Saturday after discovering that three players were academically ineligible.
    Northwestern forfeit its regular-season games against Bacone and Texas College as well as a postseason game against Friends (Kan.) University because the players competed in those games while ineligible.
    The school said the unidentified players dropped classes during the fall semester that reduced their course load below 12 hours, which is not allowed by the NAIA.
    "Our university community is saddened and embarrassed by the actions we were forced to take today, but we will never compromise the integrity of this university," university president Janet Cunningham said in a statement.
    "Everyone at Northwestern is accountable for ensuring that we follow NAIA rules and institutional policy to the letter."
    Cunningham apologized to the opposing schools involved in the forfeited games, especially Friends, and said a task force would be formed to look into eligibility issues in the athletic department and prevent further compliance problems.
    "I also feel for our players and coaches who will not be allowed to continue their season. They have worked very hard to get to this point but I am confident they understand that we are doing the right thing," Cunningham said.
    Carroll athletic director Bruce Parker said there will be no quarterfinal game, and the Montana school will advance to the semifinals because of the forfeit. The Fighting Saints have won five of the last six NAIA titles, have a 27-game winning streak and are the top-ranked team in the playoffs.
    Northwestern Oklahoma State won its only national title in 1999 and also lost to Carroll in the 2003 title game.
    The NAIA planned to have its National Eligibility Committee review a report from Northwestern Oklahoma State and determine whether any additional sanctions are necessary.
    "It is our understanding that earlier today Northwestern Oklahoma's internal monitoring system detected a violation of NAIA rules and once learning of the violation the administration immediately contacted NAIA officials," NAIA president Jim Carr said in a statement.
    "I know this is a difficult time for the administration, coaches and players but would like to recognize the integrity of the university's administration for taking responsibility to do what was right."
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
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and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

Ralph Turner

Props to President Cunningham, and I hope that the coaches, the senior athletic compliance/administrator and faculty rep can install a system that prevents that from happening in the future.

I know that coaches are dealing that issue on a perennial basis, as student-athletes "drop the ball" and don't work to stay eligible.

Foss

Interesting. Since their postseason victory is forfeited, why not allow the team they "defeated" (Friends, Kan.) to compete against Carroll College? (who incidentally doesn't need anymore help in winning another NAIA title) I understand game film would be received mid-week, but if overnighted today both universities would have had it by tomorrow. Both would be at an equal disadvantage by not getting the tapes earlier in the week. I imagine cost might have something to do with it since in addition to the expenses for Friends, the NAIA is also possibly looking at cancellation fees for NW Oklahoma. Anyway, just kind of seems like a waste that they don't attempt to allow the school who played by the rules to advance, especially when this was discovered relatively early in the week.
A packed student section behind an end zone cheering on guys they will actually see in class on Monday is almost as cool as The Streak.

Foss

This partly answers my question. This from the Friends University Athletic website:

The National Administrative Council (NAC) of the NAIA determines the process of competition when violations are reported.  In this instance, after discussion with Friends University administration and the NAIA, it was decided that Carroll College would receive a bye through the quarterfinals of the NAIA national playoff football series.

"It is regrettable that this occurred," said Friends University Athletic Director Joe Zimmerman.  "I know our players and coaches would have embraced an opportunity to continue the season."


A packed student section behind an end zone cheering on guys they will actually see in class on Monday is almost as cool as The Streak.

K-Mack

I was asked about this, so I thought I'd wrap up the season's final numbers. We were updated through Week 9:

QuoteWho are those guys?

Tracking Division III against competition from other classifications:

vs. NAIA (0-1 in Week 9, 26-13 in 2008)
Minn.-Morris at Waldorf
East Texas Baptist at Azusa Pacific

Week 10
Minn.-Morris 20, at Waldorf 0
at Azusa Pacific 33, ETBU 21

Week 11
at Newport News 37, Southern Va. 14
Trine 34, at Ky. Christian 12

That works out to 29-14.

Since NNA technically is not a D3 (for our purposes, we group them with D3 because they play in a D3 conference), we should subtract their 1-2 record against UVa.-Wise, Webber Int'l and Southern Va. to be more accurate.

So that's 28-13 for 2008.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack

From the offseason e-mail & reply files:

Quote----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob"
To: keith@d3football.com
Subject: DIII vs NAIA

Keith—

I was hoping you could help me out.  I had a discussion with a friend this weekend regarding the quality of football in DIII vs. NAIA.  He felt because NAIA offers scholarship money that the football must be of higher quality.  I told him based on my experience that wasn't the case.  I thought at one time I saw on the D3football site that you posted the annual W-L record of DIII schools vs. NAIA.  At any rate, I couldn't find it and wondered if you know the season records for the past several years head-to-head.  Any info would be a big help.  Thanks in advance.

Bob

Hey Bob,
Sorry I don't get a chance to check D3 e-mail much during the offseason.

I think 2005 was much closer to .500, but the inter-classification record the past three years is pretty undeniable:

23-8 in 2006
21-9 in 2007
28-13 in 2008

There are a couple caveats, I think. First, there are about 235 D3 schools and 90 NAIAs, so almost by definition we're made up of a wider range of schools. But the second thing I think is pretty important. Even though Division III can't give athletic scholarships and its general financial aid profile to athletes must be within 4% of what it gives the student body, a good number of Division III schools are very stable institutions with either state support, such as in Wisconsin, N.Y. and N.J., or are private schools with long histories and active alumni bases. Having the support of the NCAA, which makes quite a bit of money from the March Madness TV deal, makes life a lot easier on Division III athletic departments than their similarly-sized counterparts in NAIA.

Also, NAIA teams are allowed 24 scholarships. You know it takes much more than 24 players to field a football team, so the size of those scholarships aren't going to match up to full tuition. In the cases of a Division III school that's well-established, it can come close to or match that money in academic-based or need-based aid, and then use what might be perceived as a superior degree or superior facilities, etc. to make a compelling case.

Hope that helps,

Keith McMillan
National Columnist & Managing Editor
Keith@D3football.com
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

doolittledog

Quote from: K-Mack on March 30, 2009, 02:42:52 PM
I was asked about this, so I thought I'd wrap up the season's final numbers. We were updated through Week 9:

QuoteWho are those guys?

Tracking Division III against competition from other classifications:

vs. NAIA (0-1 in Week 9, 26-13 in 2008)
Minn.-Morris at Waldorf
East Texas Baptist at Azusa Pacific

Week 10
Minn.-Morris 20, at Waldorf 0
at Azusa Pacific 33, ETBU 21

Week 11
at Newport News 37, Southern Va. 14
Trine 34, at Ky. Christian 12

That works out to 29-14.

Since NNA technically is not a D3 (for our purposes, we group them with D3 because they play in a D3 conference), we should subtract their 1-2 record against UVa.-Wise, Webber Int'l and Southern Va. to be more accurate.

So that's 28-13 for 2008.

If they went 1-2 wouldn't that work out to 28-12?

WIplayer

Sorry I'm posting this in several places, but is there a message board for the WIAC?  I can't find one.

Ron Boerger


K-Mack

Quote from: doolittledog on March 30, 2009, 06:20:52 PM
Quote from: K-Mack on March 30, 2009, 02:42:52 PM
I was asked about this, so I thought I'd wrap up the season's final numbers. We were updated through Week 9:

QuoteWho are those guys?

Tracking Division III against competition from other classifications:

vs. NAIA (0-1 in Week 9, 26-13 in 2008)
Minn.-Morris at Waldorf
East Texas Baptist at Azusa Pacific

Week 10
Minn.-Morris 20, at Waldorf 0
at Azusa Pacific 33, ETBU 21

Week 11
at Newport News 37, Southern Va. 14
Trine 34, at Ky. Christian 12

That works out to 29-14.

Since NNA technically is not a D3 (for our purposes, we group them with D3 because they play in a D3 conference), we should subtract their 1-2 record against UVa.-Wise, Webber Int'l and Southern Va. to be more accurate.

So that's 28-13 for 2008.

If they went 1-2 wouldn't that work out to 28-12?

YES!

I probably should update 2007 and 2006 (and if I can find 2005) and subtract NNA too.
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
Nastradamus, Triple Take
and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

K-Mack

#207
2009 Week 1 ... later for the cleaning up.

vs. NAIA (30-14 in 2008)
No. 2 UW-Whitewater at Dickinson State (Dakota Athletic Conference) W 38-3
Bethel, Tenn. (Mid-South Conference) at UW-Eau Claire W 21-7
Anderson at Taylor (Mid-States Football Association) L 31-16
Newport News at Malone (Mid-States Football Association) L 35-19
Southwestern Assemblies (independent) at Austin W 38-7
Bacone (Mid-South Conference) at Louisana College W 56-21

Dickinson ranked 15th and Malone 25th in the CSTV NAIA coaches' poll

Also:
Minn. Morris at Trinity Bible (S.D.) W 49-0
Former author, Around the Nation ('01-'13)
Managing Editor, Kickoff
Voter, Top 25/Play of the Week/Gagliardi Trophy/Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year
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and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

BoBo

#208
UWW had no trouble with NAIA Midland Lutheran College (Fremont NE) 58-0. In a game that wasn't as close as the score indicates  :D, Jeff Donovan was 10-13 & 5 TD's (he and the other starters only played the first half (48-0 at that point).  MLC total offensive amounted to 92 yards.  In 2 games vs scholarship NAIA opponents, the UWW defense has allowed a grand total of 201 yards and 16 first downs.
I'VE REACHED THAT AGE
WHERE MY BRAIN GOES
FROM "YOU PROBABLY
SHOULDN'T SAY THAT," TO
"WHAT THE HELL, LET'S SEE
WHAT HAPPENS."

Ralph Turner

#209
Week #2 for Keith to clean up later...    ;)

Bethany WV 41 Ky Christian 33
#2 UW-Whitewater 58, Midland Lutheran
VA-Wise 48, Newport News 0
Buena Vista 16, Peru St 14
Millsaps 27 Belhaven 10
Concordia-Moorhead 43 Valley City State 28
Rhodes 47 Haskell Indian Nations 16
UW-LaCrosse 49, Azusa Pacific 24
UW-Stout 24 Jamestown 14
Huntingdon 45, Faulkner 12
Cumberlands KY 55 Mississippi College 26
Shorter GA 42, LaGrange 19
Howard Payne 23, Southwestern Assemblies 17
#3 Mary Hardin-Baylor 42 Southern Nazarene 7
Minn-Morris 21 Dakota St 20

Corrections appreciated...