FB: New Jersey Athletic Conference

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Bartman

Quote from: wesleydad on December 16, 2017, 11:46:31 AM
Got back from the Stagg Bowl and saw 2 teams playing a game at a different level than anyone in the east does.  The speed is different and we knew that, but the execution of game plans to stop other superior teams is in my opinion the difference.  You also have to have the athletes to execute the game plans and these 2 teams have them all over the field, not just in 5 or 6 or so positions and that will always make it tough for the East and in the end most of D3 to compete for a national title.
Totally agree with you Wesleydad and congrats for braving the elements. I wish the east could always have our own bracket because it determines the best regional team(although Frostburg may argue that). I really think it is almost impossible for the East to recruit the level of athletes at all positions to really compete with the top 2-3 teams nationally...but it will be fun trying. This years Brockport team is about as good as the East gets and they had their chances against UMHB, but in the end , the best team won the Stagg, although if I were an Oshkosh fan I would be hitting my head against the wall for losing a 35-7 lead against UMU in the semi's. I actually think Oshkosh was the #2 team in the end, as UMHB was too one dimensional.
Good luck to the Wolverines and the NJAC next year.
"I never graduated from Iowa, but I was only there for two terms - Truman's and Eisenhower's."
Alex Karras
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."
Max McGee
"I love football. I really love football, As far as I'm concerned, it's the second best thing in the world".
Joe Namath

Teamski

Quote from: Bartman on December 16, 2017, 02:04:53 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 16, 2017, 11:46:31 AM
Got back from the Stagg Bowl and saw 2 teams playing a game at a different level than anyone in the east does.  The speed is different and we knew that, but the execution of game plans to stop other superior teams is in my opinion the difference.  You also have to have the athletes to execute the game plans and these 2 teams have them all over the field, not just in 5 or 6 or so positions and that will always make it tough for the East and in the end most of D3 to compete for a national title.
Totally agree with you Wesleydad and congrats for braving the elements. I wish the east could always have our own bracket because it determines the best regional team(although Frostburg may argue that). I really think it is almost impossible for the East to recruit the level of athletes at all positions to really compete with the top 2-3 teams nationally...but it will be fun trying. This years Brockport team is about as good as the East gets and they had their chances against UMHB, but in the end , the best team won the Stagg, although if I were an Oshkosh fan I would be hitting my head against the wall for losing a 35-7 lead against UMU in the semi's. I actually think Oshkosh was the #2 team in the end, as UMHB was too one dimensional.
Good luck to the Wolverines and the NJAC next year.

When you have a team like UMU recruiting a large portion of their athletes from Florida, you can't compete with that level of athleticism.  Most DIII teams tend not to recruit like a DI program.

-Ski
Wesley College Football.... A Winning Tradition! A Coach Mike Drass Legacy.

Bartman

Quote from: Teamski on December 16, 2017, 06:56:32 PM
Quote from: Bartman on December 16, 2017, 02:04:53 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 16, 2017, 11:46:31 AM
Got back from the Stagg Bowl and saw 2 teams playing a game at a different level than anyone in the east does.  The speed is different and we knew that, but the execution of game plans to stop other superior teams is in my opinion the difference.  You also have to have the athletes to execute the game plans and these 2 teams have them all over the field, not just in 5 or 6 or so positions and that will always make it tough for the East and in the end most of D3 to compete for a national title.
Totally agree with you Wesleydad and congrats for braving the elements. I wish the east could always have our own bracket because it determines the best regional team(although Frostburg may argue that). I really think it is almost impossible for the East to recruit the level of athletes at all positions to really compete with the top 2-3 teams nationally...but it will be fun trying. This years Brockport team is about as good as the East gets and they had their chances against UMHB, but in the end , the best team won the Stagg, although if I were an Oshkosh fan I would be hitting my head against the wall for losing a 35-7 lead against UMU in the semi's. I actually think Oshkosh was the #2 team in the end, as UMHB was too one dimensional.
Good luck to the Wolverines and the NJAC next year.

When you have a team like UMU recruiting a large portion of their athletes from Florida, you can't compete with that level of athleticism.  Most DIII teams tend not to recruit like a DI program.

-Ski
Ski, this is true, UMU can pitch "come to Mount Union and be part of a Championship"(especially if you were passed on by the D1 recruiters), that is why the Oshkosh results were note worthy this year with almost entirely Wisconsin boys with a few border crossers from Illinois.
"I never graduated from Iowa, but I was only there for two terms - Truman's and Eisenhower's."
Alex Karras
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."
Max McGee
"I love football. I really love football, As far as I'm concerned, it's the second best thing in the world".
Joe Namath

WRMUalum13

Quote from: Bartman on December 17, 2017, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: Teamski on December 16, 2017, 06:56:32 PM
Quote from: Bartman on December 16, 2017, 02:04:53 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 16, 2017, 11:46:31 AM
Got back from the Stagg Bowl and saw 2 teams playing a game at a different level than anyone in the east does.  The speed is different and we knew that, but the execution of game plans to stop other superior teams is in my opinion the difference.  You also have to have the athletes to execute the game plans and these 2 teams have them all over the field, not just in 5 or 6 or so positions and that will always make it tough for the East and in the end most of D3 to compete for a national title.
Totally agree with you Wesleydad and congrats for braving the elements. I wish the east could always have our own bracket because it determines the best regional team(although Frostburg may argue that). I really think it is almost impossible for the East to recruit the level of athletes at all positions to really compete with the top 2-3 teams nationally...but it will be fun trying. This years Brockport team is about as good as the East gets and they had their chances against UMHB, but in the end , the best team won the Stagg, although if I were an Oshkosh fan I would be hitting my head against the wall for losing a 35-7 lead against UMU in the semi's. I actually think Oshkosh was the #2 team in the end, as UMHB was too one dimensional.
Good luck to the Wolverines and the NJAC next year.

When you have a team like UMU recruiting a large portion of their athletes from Florida, you can't compete with that level of athleticism.  Most DIII teams tend not to recruit like a DI program.

-Ski
Ski, this is true, UMU can pitch "come to Mount Union and be part of a Championship"(especially if you were passed on by the D1 recruiters), that is why the Oshkosh results were note worthy this year with almost entirely Wisconsin boys with a few border crossers from Illinois.

Just to play devil's advocate Mount Union recruits like a D1 program partially out of necessity. They have a lot more competition for highly talented local guys than a school like UWO does.

For example:

There are 2 division 2 schools in the same county as Mount Union (Walsh and Malone)
There's another division 2 school within 1.5 hours of Mount Union (Ashland)
There's an FCS school less than 1 hour away (Youngstown State)
There are 2 MAC schools less than 1 hour away (Kent and Akron)
There are 2 OAC rivals within 1.5 hours (JCU and Baldwin Wallace)

Sure, Mount doesn't recruit directly against FCS or FBS schools but I can imagine they lose a lot of talented walk ons to them. Kevin Burke was told he could walk on at a MAC school, but luckily he chose D3.

I'm not saying recruiting nationally doesn't give Mount an advantage it does, and they are able to do it, becuase of their legacy and national exposure on ESPN etc. However, I think it's important to put their position in context. If Brett Kasper or Dylan Hecker played High school ball in Northeast Ohio and they wanted to play college football at a local level think about how many options they'd have compared to in Wisconsin.

wesleydad

Quote from: WRMUalum13 on December 17, 2017, 01:02:40 PM
Quote from: Bartman on December 17, 2017, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: Teamski on December 16, 2017, 06:56:32 PM
Quote from: Bartman on December 16, 2017, 02:04:53 PM
Quote from: wesleydad on December 16, 2017, 11:46:31 AM
Got back from the Stagg Bowl and saw 2 teams playing a game at a different level than anyone in the east does.  The speed is different and we knew that, but the execution of game plans to stop other superior teams is in my opinion the difference.  You also have to have the athletes to execute the game plans and these 2 teams have them all over the field, not just in 5 or 6 or so positions and that will always make it tough for the East and in the end most of D3 to compete for a national title.
Totally agree with you Wesleydad and congrats for braving the elements. I wish the east could always have our own bracket because it determines the best regional team(although Frostburg may argue that). I really think it is almost impossible for the East to recruit the level of athletes at all positions to really compete with the top 2-3 teams nationally...but it will be fun trying. This years Brockport team is about as good as the East gets and they had their chances against UMHB, but in the end , the best team won the Stagg, although if I were an Oshkosh fan I would be hitting my head against the wall for losing a 35-7 lead against UMU in the semi's. I actually think Oshkosh was the #2 team in the end, as UMHB was too one dimensional.
Good luck to the Wolverines and the NJAC next year.

When you have a team like UMU recruiting a large portion of their athletes from Florida, you can't compete with that level of athleticism.  Most DIII teams tend not to recruit like a DI program.

-Ski
Ski, this is true, UMU can pitch "come to Mount Union and be part of a Championship"(especially if you were passed on by the D1 recruiters), that is why the Oshkosh results were note worthy this year with almost entirely Wisconsin boys with a few border crossers from Illinois.

Just to play devil's advocate Mount Union recruits like a D1 program partially out of necessity. They have a lot more competition for highly talented local guys than a school like UWO does.

For example:

There are 2 division 2 schools in the same county as Mount Union (Walsh and Malone)
There's another division 2 school within 1.5 hours of Mount Union (Ashland)
There's an FCS school less than 1 hour away (Youngstown State)
There are 2 MAC schools less than 1 hour away (Kent and Akron)
There are 2 OAC rivals within 1.5 hours (JCU and Baldwin Wallace)

Sure, Mount doesn't recruit directly against FCS or FBS schools but I can imagine they lose a lot of talented walk ons to them. Kevin Burke was told he could walk on at a MAC school, but luckily he chose D3.

I'm not saying recruiting nationally doesn't give Mount an advantage it does, and they are able to do it, becuase of their legacy and national exposure on ESPN etc. However, I think it's important to put their position in context. If Brett Kasper or Dylan Hecker played High school ball in Northeast Ohio and they wanted to play college football at a local level think about how many options they'd have compared to in Wisconsin.

Ski, I just dont think that is true.  I do not believe they recruit a large part of their team from Florida.  I did not look at the roster, but I figure most of the team is from Ohio.  They have an edge when it comes to brand recognition, but to marginalize their success to kids from Florida is wrong.  They are better based on many things; the coaching staff seldom gets out coached, the players are team oriented and give up personal stats for the good of the team, teams are intimidated by the name, they are more disciplined than most teams, etc.  If the only reason they are winning more than others is because they recruit kids from Florida than I would think more teams would do it.  There are good players all over the country, getting them to perform at the top level is what separates the best from the rest.

WRMUalum13

^ the vast majority of players are still from Ohio

Teamski

Quote from: WRMUalum13 on December 17, 2017, 02:01:55 PM
^ the vast majority of players are still from Ohio

A quick count.  64 of their players are from out of state.  Of those 14 are from Florida.  That is pretty big.  I know Wesley has quite a few out of staters due to how small the state of Delaware is; 3 counties' worth of talent.  UMU's reach is pretty far.  And yes, success breeds success but they definitely have scouts out.  I don't don't go with the competition talent leak issue of being in Ohio.  The WIAC has the same problem and they are able to churn out some serious teams.  UMHB has to deal with Texas and just about all of their players are from in state.

-Ski
Wesley College Football.... A Winning Tradition! A Coach Mike Drass Legacy.

WRMUalum13

#11707
Quote from: Teamski on December 17, 2017, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: WRMUalum13 on December 17, 2017, 02:01:55 PM
^ the vast majority of players are still from Ohio

A quick count.  64 of their players are from out of state.  Of those 14 are from Florida.  That is pretty big.  I know Wesley has quite a few out of staters due to how small the state of Delaware is; 3 counties' worth of talent.  UMU's reach is pretty far.  And yes, success breeds success but they definitely have scouts out.  I don't don't go with the competition talent leak issue of being in Ohio.  The WIAC has the same problem and they are able to churn out some serious teams.  UMHB has to deal with Texas and just about all of their players are from in state.

-Ski

Wisconsin has 1 d2 school in the entire state. There are 3 within 90 minutes of Alliance, There are 0 FCS schools in Wisconsin but there's 1 60 minutes from Alliance. It just seems like they don't face
the same recruiting challenges.

I'll concede that UMHB might have similar challenges to Mount but then recruiting in state isn't as impressive when your state is the second largest in the country.


wesleydad

Quote from: Teamski on December 17, 2017, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: WRMUalum13 on December 17, 2017, 02:01:55 PM
^ the vast majority of players are still from Ohio

A quick count.  64 of their players are from out of state.  Of those 14 are from Florida.  That is pretty big.  I know Wesley has quite a few out of staters due to how small the state of Delaware is; 3 counties' worth of talent.  UMU's reach is pretty far.  And yes, success breeds success but they definitely have scouts out.  I don't don't go with the competition talent leak issue of being in Ohio.  The WIAC has the same problem and they are able to churn out some serious teams.  UMHB has to deal with Texas and just about all of their players are from in state.

-Ski

Ski, it that is true and I trust your leg work, I am surprised by that total.

WRMUalum13

Quote from: wesleydad on December 17, 2017, 07:25:56 PM
Quote from: Teamski on December 17, 2017, 07:04:38 PM
Quote from: WRMUalum13 on December 17, 2017, 02:01:55 PM
^ the vast majority of players are still from Ohio

A quick count.  64 of their players are from out of state.  Of those 14 are from Florida.  That is pretty big.  I know Wesley has quite a few out of staters due to how small the state of Delaware is; 3 counties' worth of talent.  UMU's reach is pretty far.  And yes, success breeds success but they definitely have scouts out.  I don't don't go with the competition talent leak issue of being in Ohio.  The WIAC has the same problem and they are able to churn out some serious teams.  UMHB has to deal with Texas and just about all of their players are from in state.

-Ski

Ski, it that is true and I trust your leg work, I am surprised by that total.

That's also total roster not playoff roster, not sure what the total amount is but for mounts playoff roster 67 are from Ohio and 32 are out of state.

Teamski

Quote from: WRMUalum13 on December 17, 2017, 07:32:26 PM/quote]
That's also total roster not playoff roster, not sure what the total amount is but for mounts playoff roster 67 are from Ohio and 32 are out of state.

True, but teams like UMU (or any DIII team really)  aren't going to play a lot of Freshmen or Sophomores that are redshirting or otherwise waiting to get on the two-deep roster.   The proportion of out of state is still proportional. 

Top performers for MU in the final:

Nick Brish: Michigan
Justin Hill: North Carolina
D'angelo Fulford: Florida
Michael Videl: Florida
Jawanza Evans-Morris - Florida

Not knocking UMU, just saying that they have the ability to scout like a DI team..... Pierre Garcon was a Floridian as well....

-Ski
 
Wesley College Football.... A Winning Tradition! A Coach Mike Drass Legacy.

WRMUalum13

Quote from: Teamski on December 17, 2017, 10:32:03 PM
Quote from: WRMUalum13 on December 17, 2017, 07:32:26 PM/quote]
That's also total roster not playoff roster, not sure what the total amount is but for mounts playoff roster 67 are from Ohio and 32 are out of state.

True, but teams like UMU (or any DIII team really)  aren't going to play a lot of Freshmen or Sophomores that are redshirting or otherwise waiting to get on the two-deep roster.   The proportion of out of state is still proportional. 

Top performers for MU in the final:

Nick Brish: Michigan
Justin Hill: North Carolina
D'angelo Fulford: Florida
Michael Videl: Florida
Jawanza Evans-Morris - Florida

Not knocking UMU, just saying that they have the ability to scout like a DI team..... Pierre Garcon was a Floridian as well....

-Ski


Fair enough. My point was really only to say that they have a harder job recruiting top talent in state than many folks give them credit for. Also Hill is from Ohio, but went to prep school in NC.

thewaterboy

Quote from: WRMUalum13 on December 17, 2017, 10:49:11 PM
Quote from: Teamski on December 17, 2017, 10:32:03 PM
Quote from: WRMUalum13 on December 17, 2017, 07:32:26 PM/quote]
That's also total roster not playoff roster, not sure what the total amount is but for mounts playoff roster 67 are from Ohio and 32 are out of state.

True, but teams like UMU (or any DIII team really)  aren't going to play a lot of Freshmen or Sophomores that are redshirting or otherwise waiting to get on the two-deep roster.   The proportion of out of state is still proportional. 

Top performers for MU in the final:

Nick Brish: Michigan
Justin Hill: North Carolina
D'angelo Fulford: Florida
Michael Videl: Florida
Jawanza Evans-Morris - Florida

Not knocking UMU, just saying that they have the ability to scout like a DI team..... Pierre Garcon was a Floridian as well....

-Ski


Fair enough. My point was really only to say that they have a harder job recruiting top talent in state than many folks give them credit for. Also Hill is from Ohio, but went to prep school in NC.
I mean maybe initially they had trouble recruiting in Ohio. But with the reputation they have created, I think it is safe to say they have surpassed pretty much everyone except Kent State, Akron, and Youngstown State in the region. IMO, if I were a perspective football player in Ohio and could not go D1, Mount Union would be on the top of the list. Malone, Walsh, other D2s and 3s, do not offer the football pedigree that Mount does. Mount is nationally renowned. Not many schools at the D2, NAIA or D3 levels can say that. Recruiting in Ohio isn't that hard for Mount in today's times.

continental

And you are virtually guaranteed between 56-60 games in a 4 year career...can't even sell that at Ohio State.

Pat Coleman

Quote from: thewaterboy on December 15, 2017, 09:42:18 PM
Looking at the d3football All-Americans. I'm surprised that Matt Gono is only a third teamer. First team according to the Associated Press and according to this website (http://www.draftcountdown.com/nfl-draft-ranking/2018-offensive-guard-rankings/), he is ranked the 10th best NFL prospect at the guard position.

Also a little surprised to see nothing for EJ Lee. He's ranked 7 in the nation in rushing yards, beating out everyone except Valdivia, Wilcox, Breece, and Smith. He also has 25 rushing touchdowns, fewer than only Smith and Valdivia.

You're citing total rushing yards for Lee. He did play a couple more games than most running backs. In yards per game, he was 14th.
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