FB: Liberty League

Started by admin, August 16, 2005, 04:58:34 AM

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IC798891

Quote from: XREDDRAGON77 on March 06, 2024, 11:48:31 AMJust seems bizarre when your post season is beyond 50% of the duration of your regular season.



Agreed.

unionpalooza

Quote from: IC798891 on March 06, 2024, 11:36:51 AMUltimately, I just don't know how I feel about a six-week postseason — acknowledging that no one will likely play an actual 6th game in the playoffs. I know it gets at the access ratio problems, but it also makes the football playoffs, which is already D3s longest NCAA playoff relative to the length of the regular season, even longer. So while it some ways it brings it more in line with the rest of the division, in other ways to moves it further apart.

I'm also not really sure it's in line with the D3 philosophy.

Yes, more playoff bids for more student athletes is a positive. But D3s philosophy statement emphasizes conference championships and providing opportunity broad based athletics participation, and this merely adds at large bids while extending a season in a way that could impact on multi-sport participation among football players, even if it's not a question of "the longer football season literally cuts into my track schedule" but just the general physical wear and tear, and overall commitment to a bigger football footprint.

It seems pretty obvious it's going to happen, so I'm just kind of shouting at the rain. But that's what the offseason is for anyway

It's definitely a little weird, but I've basically come to the view that D3 college football is a just a strange outlier altogether - twice the kids of any other sport (and at some schools, 3 or 4x), hundreds of schools but the ability to play no more than 10 games a regular season, etc.  There are no real good solutions to reconcile a tournament format with standard D3 principles.  A 40-team format will be a serious boon to the LL (as most years there is a LL team that's in ~5-12 in the Pool C hierarchy), so ultimately I'm for it.  But I'd frankly prefer that they stick with 32 and get rid of all the AQs altogether, and seed the best 8 teams in each of four regions.  You don't get the best 32 teams that way, but you don't today, and you'd at least get closer, and it's a lot easier to make credible at large distinctions between teams in a region than across the country.  So basically, go back to the 1990s, but double the number to expand access and reflect the growth in number of programs.

stlawus

I'm hoping sometime in the near future SLU will be relevant to these conversations again. It's been a tough stretch the past few years. The team has played some tough teams really close on occasion during this time, but hasn't had the depth. With the millions being poured into facility upgrades the last year I think there will be some improvements on the recruiting side. I've seen with my own eyes the recruiting process this winter and while I'm about as biased and conflicted as possible, they looked like pretty good recruiting pitches. They obviously included the aforementioned facilities investments, which combined with the looming enrollment cliff seems to be a two birds one stone thing for attracting talent and retaining a healthy campus enrollment.

In the context of SLU football history (at least relative to my age) anything near a .500 record would normally be seen as a success. We were quite spoiled in the Raymond years. I'm a big fan of Coach Puck, especially after all the personal adversity him and his family have endured the last few years. The staff have seen the standards for success in the Liberty League with the usual perennial powers of Ithaca, Union, Hobart etc so I'm optimistic SLU football is on track to rebuild into a competitive program again.

IC798891

Quote from: unionpalooza on March 06, 2024, 08:02:27 PMBut I'd frankly prefer that they stick with 32 and get rid of all the AQs altogether, and seed the best 8 teams in each of four regions. 

This is, for better or worse, a complete non-starter for D3 I would suspect. Conference championships are sacrosanct.

Someone on one of the other boards actually suggested the opposite. Get to a point where you can get rid of the at-large bids. 32 conferences, 32 AQs. Get rid of the inconsistent at-large process that seems to please no-one.

Yes, your tournament will be 'weaker'. Yes, it will be 'unfair' to teams in some conferences. But it is the closest thing to the core of D3

IC798891

Quote from: stlawus on March 06, 2024, 11:23:43 PMI'm hoping sometime in the near future SLU will be relevant to these conversations again. It's been a tough stretch the past few years. The team has played some tough teams really close on occasion during this time, but hasn't had the depth. With the millions being poured into facility upgrades the last year I think there will be some improvements on the recruiting side. I've seen with my own eyes the recruiting process this winter and while I'm about as biased and conflicted as possible, they looked like pretty good recruiting pitches. They obviously included the aforementioned facilities investments, which combined with the looming enrollment cliff seems to be a two birds one stone thing for attracting talent and retaining a healthy campus enrollment.

In the context of SLU football history (at least relative to my age) anything near a .500 record would normally be seen as a success. We were quite spoiled in the Raymond years. I'm a big fan of Coach Puck, especially after all the personal adversity him and his family have endured the last few years. The staff have seen the standards for success in the Liberty League with the usual perennial powers of Ithaca, Union, Hobart etc so I'm optimistic SLU football is on track to rebuild into a competitive program again.

I have to be honest, I was stunned by SLU's dropoff. They weren't just a one year wonder. They had a really strong four year run and then it just went away. Was it just an especially strong group of players who all graduated after 2016?

stlawus

It was definitely an unusual and extraordinary talented class of 2016 and 2017. Chyron Brown-Wallace was about as good a player I've ever seen at the division III level and Leondre Simmon was a force in the secondary.  There was plenty of talent to go around but those two guys were difference makers. Simmon was a dual sport athlete and decided against playing basketball his senior year since he had a longshot yet legitimate opportunity for a pro stint somewhere at some level.  His last two years coaches said he would have easily played division I with that talent had he been developed further as a high school prospect.

unionpalooza

Quote from: IC798891 on March 07, 2024, 11:25:41 AM
Quote from: stlawus on March 06, 2024, 11:23:43 PMI'm hoping sometime in the near future SLU will be relevant to these conversations again. It's been a tough stretch the past few years. The team has played some tough teams really close on occasion during this time, but hasn't had the depth. With the millions being poured into facility upgrades the last year I think there will be some improvements on the recruiting side. I've seen with my own eyes the recruiting process this winter and while I'm about as biased and conflicted as possible, they looked like pretty good recruiting pitches. They obviously included the aforementioned facilities investments, which combined with the looming enrollment cliff seems to be a two birds one stone thing for attracting talent and retaining a healthy campus enrollment.

In the context of SLU football history (at least relative to my age) anything near a .500 record would normally be seen as a success. We were quite spoiled in the Raymond years. I'm a big fan of Coach Puck, especially after all the personal adversity him and his family have endured the last few years. The staff have seen the standards for success in the Liberty League with the usual perennial powers of Ithaca, Union, Hobart etc so I'm optimistic SLU football is on track to rebuild into a competitive program again.

I have to be honest, I was stunned by SLU's dropoff. They weren't just a one year wonder. They had a really strong four year run and then it just went away. Was it just an especially strong group of players who all graduated after 2016?

SLU's rapid rise and fall seems to perfectly coincide with Raymond's recruiting prowess, so I've always assumed that was the main driver.  Per stlawus, you also can't overstate the impact of just a few major difference makers.  (For example, the 2022 and 2023 Union teams were actually very similar in terms of talent, even though records were 6-4 v. 9-2.  The main difference in 2023 was the return of Jimaar Edwards at nose, who was a transformational player on defense.)

I think SLU has a tough road ahead.  Puck's a good coach, and last year's team struck me as 4 or 5 better O and D linemen from being a .500 squad.  But it's very hard to get today's 18-year olds to move up to the middle of nowhere on the Canadian border.  Watching the admissions trends these days, it's amazing how much student preferences have shifted towards "cool" locations.  Just look at the Boston schools - their acceptance rates have absolutely plummeted as demand for a college experience in Boston has rocketed.  This trend also does Union, RPI, and UofR no favors, though is doesn't seem to have been much of an obstacle in athletics so far.

stlawus

I don't disagree with that assessment as it specifically pertains to football, but SLU has done well in other sports under the same circumstances.  The soccer team keeps bringing in players from California and Florida, lacrosse still recruits at an elite level and basketball has not been affected at all.  Different dynamic for football since the talent pool in NY and New England is not great, so the current established programs are getting the better talent that's left over in this region. 

It all goes back to what I said about the investment in facilities, "if you build it they will come" etc. 

stlawus

I could just be huffing the hopium but it seems like recruiting this year for SLU has been revamped.  Just got a really solid QB commit who also had an offer from Endicott.  If SLU is getting guys to come here instead of a now perennially strong program like Endicott maybe things could be on the up.  Also on the heels of getting a 6'4" 200lb 1st team all state WR from VT.  Of course, competition in VT is not the same elsewhere but getting the cream of the crop is still a step in the right direction.  Think they made the right hire in Zach Mallard to be the new DC since he's already securing a pretty solid class.

Hawks88

Huntingdon fan from Alabama here and you guys definitely made a great hire with Mallard. We love Zach from his time here. Very nice young man with great enthusiasm and is great with the players. I will be keeping an eye on your games when I can and be pulling for you. Have a great season.