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Posting Up (Division III basketball) => Men's Basketball => West Region => Topic started by: Oxy'03SalemPavers on March 10, 2005, 12:17:44 pm

Title: MBB: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Oxy'03SalemPavers on March 10, 2005, 12:17:44 pm
92, Duque gets my nod as well for the best post player ever in the SCIAC, which undoubtedly puts him into any discussion as the best player ever.  What I respect the most about him is that, like Song, he was the center-piece to helping his school overcome historical shortcomings in the SCIAC.  Popovich was like Newhall, coaching in the SCIAC for about a decade and always coming up a little short, until Duque arrived.  But I give Song a slight nudge because unlike Duque, he got his team to the Elite 8.  Duque only lead his team in '89 to the round of 32.  But they beat a nasty CS San Bernardino team to get there.  Kats has never been past that.  

But if we were going to open the lid past '94 there are some other legit names to throw into the two other names from CMS Todd Thomas & Chris Greene CMS (next tier down has guys like Bellaire, Albrecht, Keister, M Johnson, was Newhall from mid 80s or mid 70s?, I think he put up some nasty numbers in the set shot era).
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacisfun on March 10, 2005, 01:23:57 pm
For the record, Avedian was on the '01 team, and yes, he did ride the pine while Muth and Co. were dominating. Interestingly, Hodges was a starter on that team. Not a bad lineup-three guys who were first team sciac at some point in their career, two second-teamers, and a POY riding the bench
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: fosheezie on March 10, 2005, 02:53:28 pm
Oxyfan-

Hold up, let me clear what I was trying to say.  Don't get me wrong, Song was a bad dude.  I don't doubt his talent.  And that Oxy team was very good, they did work hard, and had the smarts to back it up.  If I had to pick someone on that team to be the MVP, I would have to go with Finn.  He did it all, bounded, could shoot, take it strong, and usually played d against bigger opponents.

And Pavers, Song over Duque.  Are you crazy?  If Popovich is telling Tim Duncan that Duque was the best player he ever coached, then you know Duque was the real deal.  I don't even know if Song was the best on that Oxy team.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Oxy'03SalemPavers on March 10, 2005, 03:52:41 pm
Fo, you bring up good points.  Results are what has me taking Song over Duque.  It's like taking Christian Laetner over Grant Hill.  Or is Song more like Hurley...

And you are also right that it is debatable whether or not that should be Finn or Song.  Without one of those guys on the team, and a couple of other guys on that squad, we wouldn't even be talking about them as being on a best ever list.  They all made each other play at a higher level.  But I stick with my statement that Song was THE difference maker for that team.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Rayburn on March 10, 2005, 09:21:19 pm
Sciacisfun -  

How could Hodges have been a starter on the '01 team?  That would have made this season his 5th.  Did he redshirt 2001-02?  I dont remember him playing then.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Scandihoovian on March 11, 2005, 11:20:44 am
Hodges had a redshirt year in their someplace, it was either 01-02 or 02-03.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mike Brandt on March 11, 2005, 06:12:52 pm
It had to be 01-02, I remember playing against him in 02-03.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 16, 2005, 07:30:23 pm
Surprise, Surprise, Surprise.....another SCIAC individual left off the All-Region Team.  Two of the best forwards in the West Region......Hodges and Jolly dont even get a sniff.  Nah...there is no bias.  Just like Avedian was left off last year.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2005, 09:59:47 pm
Sciacguru, perhaps if the SCIAC SIDs exercised their right to vote they might get someone on the team.

Eight SCIAC schools. Two SCIAC ballots. Direct your anger at the voters, not us.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Scandihoovian on March 17, 2005, 10:50:51 am
Pat-

I'm curious with only two SCIAC ballots how the conference got a player on the women's team (Valerie Pina from CLU)?  Do fewer SIDs from the western region vote on the women's side?

(Message edited by SCScandihoovian on March 17, 2005)
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 17, 2005, 12:39:58 pm
Ok, THIS YEAR, the SIDs didnt exercise their right to vote.  But I cant see that this year would be different from last, as you had Shivers on 2nd team, and no mention of Avedian.....the POY.  Your excuse....."we vote on a traditional All-Region Team"...2 guards, 2 forwards, and a center.  You cant tell me a player who averaged 25 pts and 7 rebounds, and POY, is not deserving.  So you have 12 SIDs in the WIAC, and really only 5 in the SCIAC (that are full time).  Of course, 6 players from the WIAC will be nominated.  Dont you think that is a bit skewed??  I would think from your GRAND position you would be able to look through that.  Nah, no bias.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 17, 2005, 01:38:14 pm
My mistake....9 wiac schools.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Oxy'03SalemPavers on March 18, 2005, 12:58:20 am
Guru,  if we didn't go out in the first round every year we could get more votes than what we get from the handful of SIDs from our conference who we can find at the beach to send in a vote.  Why would the rest of the country listen to us?  If our talent was on par with the best in the country we would win at least SOME games.  When we get to Salem we will validate our talent level and then some.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: jbergman on March 18, 2005, 12:58:42 pm
Does anyone have any information about incoming frosh for the SCIAC next year?
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 18, 2005, 01:41:22 pm
Oxy....if that is the case....did anyone from your illustrious Elite 8 team make the all-Region team?
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Oxy'03SalemPavers on March 19, 2005, 01:57:18 am
Rebasso not being an All-American was a real joke that should have resulted in Oxy's SID being fired.  I think Oxy's SID didn't even turn in a vote that year.  But it would have taken more than that vote.  I mean, is it unheard of for a school to lobby for votes for a player?
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 19, 2005, 03:26:26 am
Guru, I don't understand why you are shouting at me about it. I didn't select the All-Region team this year, last year, the year before or the year before that.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: wildcat1144 on March 19, 2005, 08:44:35 pm
Sciacguru,

If you are asking Oxy if any one made the all-region team from the Elite 8 football squad then the answer is yes:

1st team:
Ted Helgert, OL, Sr.

2nd team:
Mike Bryant, LB, So.

3rd team:
Zac Sadowski, RS, Sr.

...and Bryant was named a 3rd team All-American by d3football.com
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on March 22, 2005, 02:55:00 pm
There is no doubt that Avedian should be on that list, he tourched defenses for 3 straight years.

Congrats to Michael Reich from CC, for 1st Team All-Region, and HM All-American.  It is always good to see a PV guy do well!
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacisfun on March 22, 2005, 06:21:10 pm
i have no doubt that if CLU would have done better this year, Hodges would have been on the all-region. But...they didn't. and yes, he was gone for the 01-02 season--he didn't go to CLU that year.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: artestes on March 25, 2005, 11:20:54 am
Hey Bergman, word on the street is that Cal Tech just got a D1 transfer from Cal Berkley... He's 5'6", 125 lbs, and can calculate the gravitational wingspan of a sophoclone in less than 4.3 seconds.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: jbergman on March 28, 2005, 09:34:11 pm
ARTestes - Yeah, I heard the same rumor. They're dancin' in the streets in Pasadena...maybe it's goodbye to that 1 for 72 slump they've been in.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Oxy'03SalemPavers on March 30, 2005, 11:05:29 am
Is his name William Hung?
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 30, 2005, 09:01:27 pm
Nah, Hung is going to Oxy
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Scandihoovian on April 14, 2005, 10:20:41 am
Does anyone have any more info on the possibility of a three team mini tournament at season's end?
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Michael Morris on May 18, 2005, 08:22:58 pm
it's been a month somebody should say it, NO there will not be any tournament at the season's end. It costs money, SCIAC games are free to get into, this will lead the schools to lose money. More importantly it probably won't lead to a second bid so what's the point other than making it so that teams 2 and 3 don't have to discipline themselves to play consistently all season.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Michael Morris on June 22, 2005, 02:54:02 pm
Congratulations to Coach Lowery. Here's to a PP vs. PU tournament matchup, Go get'em Coach!  

http://goboxers.pacificu.edu/mbx/news/062005.htm
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 04, 2005, 02:22:48 am
Congratulations to the team members of Deep Impact at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology on the successful mission.

That was truly a spectacular moment in history.
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on July 06, 2005, 08:48:17 pm
Now, if only the Caltech hoops team can shoot as well at a stationary target. :-)
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Scandihoovian on July 08, 2005, 04:21:30 pm
Just thought the board might like an update on the construction of the new Sports and Fitness center at Cal Lu.  You can watch construction live at http://ww2.clunet.edu/building_clu/
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: artestes on August 02, 2005, 02:38:15 pm
almost as exciting as watching grass grow!!!
Title: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Scandihoovian on August 14, 2005, 11:28:29 pm
Artestes-

I'm glad you looked!

We're looking forward to having the hens in for a visit.  They'll be so distracted with the good lighting and lack of dead spots that they won't realize they're down by twenty :-)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on August 16, 2005, 10:49:14 pm
Hmmm, Cal Lu by 20 over the Hens...you must be thinking of the Pomona-Pitzer women's team AKA The Girls School For Blind, cause we both know With the Men's team that won't happen.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on August 21, 2005, 12:46:06 pm
The Hens have had some rough times up in Thousand Oaks (I think they've won once in the last 6 years).  I'm sure that there isn't a team in the SCIAC that will miss the old CLU gym after this season.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on August 21, 2005, 03:15:57 pm
Cal Lu will miss it. They may have an easier time recruiting, but everyone loves to play in a new gym. Once the old one goes so does their home court advantage.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on August 22, 2005, 02:01:31 am
Pomona-Pitzer's 2nd leading scorer G Chaz Turner TRANSFERS TO CMS


Here's something more interesting then hearing about Cal Lu's gym for the rest of the board. Comments....
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on August 23, 2005, 12:14:37 am
What year is Turner?

Will anyone at PP deign to talk to him anymore?

Will he be even more confused when he plays in the new CLU gym for the first time?  ;D

Seriously, seems like it might help CMS more than it hurts PP, Kats system seems like it adjusts well to the loss of a big talent - for example, even when Lloyd had an off game that was no guarantee that PP would be easier to beat.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: artestes on August 24, 2005, 03:05:03 pm
Turner's gonna be a junior. Apparently he left due to issues with PP's coach. I cannot believe he would transfer to CMC of all places... at least go to la verne or oxy chaz!

PP better be unstoppable up front this year though... ALLoyd was balling with D1 players all summer and Wexler-Berron played in the D1 Kenner League at Georgetown on a team with all the Gtown players.

Should be an interesting season.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on August 25, 2005, 08:17:59 pm
Last five years, CLU holds a 6-4 advantage over P-P.  Which includes a CLU 64-42 victory back on Jan. 30, 2002.  So CLU can beat the hens by 20!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on August 26, 2005, 02:05:58 pm
There's a little love for the D3 & SCIAC way of things in this morning's LA Times sports section.  You do need to read all the way through to the end of the article where Pomona's Katsiaficas and Oxy's Widolff are quoted.

go to:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/usc/la-sp-seniors26aug26,1,2936787.story?coll=la-headlines-sports&ctrack=1&cset=true
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 10, 2005, 02:01:52 pm
Hi all, I just wanted to drop in and introduce myself.

I am a HUGE D3 basketball fan, who has been to games all over the nation, and posts here WAY too much, and I will be moving to somwhere between LA and San Diego in October.

I know I've posted here several times before, so I hope that I am not a total stranger, but I am definitely looking forward to getting to know the area, its teams, and you guys in the next few years. I am also definitely looking forward to spreading the d3basketball-love-through-cookies in a new area.   :D

Since I've seen a lot of midwest and east coast basketball in the last few years, maybe my presence out here will be a good source for comparison between the various regions since I know that this part of the country often feels very ignored.   ;)

So... which team should I support? I was sorta thinking CalTech... Hehe...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 10, 2005, 04:41:40 pm
Well, April,

That (supporting Cal Tech) would be a tough job, but SOMEBODY ought to!  ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 10, 2005, 04:50:15 pm
lol chuck... you would respond to my post before a fellow southern californian  :P

they would be fun to support, actually... d3sports to the max... sure they don't win a ton, but would you like to see their current science projects, IQs or SAT scores?  :o ;)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 10, 2005, 05:13:31 pm
So what takes you to such a far-flung outpost of D3 - new job?  Checking out other conferences is now gonna be a time-and-finance nightmare!

I submit that "they [Cal Tech] don't win a ton" is already the shoo-in, hands-down winner for the prestigious "All-time Posting Up Understatement" award!  ;D

And does this pretty well guarantee you'll be standing me up (again!) at the MIAA-CCIW challenge?

BTW, since thunderstorm season is nearly over, I MAY drop the syllogism sometime, but Sandy is still pretty steamed that you don't seem to have done all you could to get rid of that 'hostile and offensive' nickname!  ;)  Though as the (overly) friendly dog she is, she is even MORE steamed that she never got a chance to jump on you and lick your face!  :(
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on September 14, 2005, 11:44:57 am
Ok DieHard-

Welcome to SoCal!  I think you'll find this board will heat up quite a bit once the season starts.  Here's a quick rundown for you so that you can start figuring out who you might want to root for:

Cal Tech: The ultimate underdog
Redlands: Fun and Gun - The "Grinnell System" gone wild (although most of the teams in the conference have figured out how to beat the system)
Whittier: Perennial underacheiver, every few years they hint at breaking through
LaVerne: Could be the next up and comer
CLU and CMS: Always in the hunt, both play good disciplined ball, usually one or both finishes just short of the title or occasionally wins it
Oxy: Always strong as well, separated from CLU & CMS by the fact that they have broken through and made a recent run to the Elite Eight
Pomona - Pitzer: Consistently among the 2 best teams in the conference and often the conference champ, but to the chagrin of the entire board they almost always fall flat in the first round of the tournament

Again - welcome to Southern California!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 15, 2005, 01:21:49 am
Thanks!

Well definitely not Whittier or Redlands, since my team is gonna play them both this season! (Single game against Redlands, Whittier christmas tourney)

I enjoy disciplined ball, esp if that means the hoosier style discipline, ie. consistant good passing leading to great open shots. I think good passing is hot.  :-*

Honestly, I'd probably prefer to cheer for the team that has the best academic team, as long at the basketball is good enough that it is enjoyable to watch.

I am not wholly a stranger to this board... I lurked often in the past few seasons, and have posted on occasion... so I know how intense the board can get during the season... esp those who are ticked that the SCIAC isn't getting the attention from Pat that they think they deserve.  ;)

I'll look forward to diving more deeply into the fray as the season approaches.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on September 16, 2005, 02:34:03 pm
Hello Soon-to-be-SoCaller,

If you want to cheer for the team with the best academics; you'd probably be best off with P-P.  But, I think you should cheer for the Kingsmen...I am biased, but they have a lot of upside.  Great coaching staff both on and off the court, new facility will help the recuiting greatly, and a nice community of Thousand Oaks.  I played at CLU 2000-2003, and couldn't have had a better overall experience. 

I look forward to getting your nation-wide perspective on our SCIAC conf.

Let me know if you need any info on the area, basketball or otherwise related.
 :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on September 16, 2005, 05:16:37 pm
Castle raises a good point...You might want to cheer for Cal Lu just based on the fact that their posters were the first to respond to your request in a friendly manner  :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 17, 2005, 01:15:22 am
Castle raises a good point...You might want to cheer for Cal Lu just based on the fact that their posters were the first to respond to your request in a friendly manner  :)

 :D Maybe... though you guys are getting early cool points for sure. :)

Did I mention I was going to be living in Temecula? That's quite a hike to make to visit my "home" team in the league!


Let me know if you need any info on the area, basketball or otherwise related. :)

Lol.... I could probably come up with tons of random questions related to where I am moving, but I'll probably just stick to basketball questions.

Which team has the classiest fans? Best fan base? Being the Wheaton girl that I am, I'm not really the hugest fan of teams whose fans are all drink and think the "bull----" cheer is really creative. And I don't necessarily care about atmosphere, as long as the basketball is good, but it's easier when I don't stand out like a sore thumb because I just got really excited about a really good rebound or play or pass or trey or something.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: John Gleich on September 17, 2005, 02:26:22 am
Hmm.. April, What's the matter with the "Bull Horn" cheer... ? :P
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on September 17, 2005, 11:05:07 am
PS, I thought that she was referring to the "Bull Ride!" cheer. You know, the one with which the crowd implies that the referee in question is such a fair arbiter that they collectively believe that he has the ability to become a rodeo judge.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 17, 2005, 11:24:41 am
lol... are you guys just trying to get me to curse?  :-\ :P
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on September 17, 2005, 12:11:39 pm
I suppose those cheers would actually be fairly creative...

My new CA friends, ignore these crazy people, I love em to death, but the fact is that they are just suffering the lingering effects of diehardfan cookie withdrawl or something  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on September 17, 2005, 09:58:19 pm
April,

I never got any cookies.  >:(

When will this oversight be corrected, now that you are relocating far out of most of d3 territory?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on September 19, 2005, 02:18:32 am
If you want to see 'good' basketball the 3 teams to watch on any given night are Pomona-Pitzer, CMS, and Cal Lu. That said here are the Pre-season SCIAC predictions...(the records don't quite add up but each is a ball park guess for every team)
PP (13-1)
CMS (11-3)
Oxy (10-4)
La Verne (9-5)
Cal Lu (9-5)
Whittier (7-8)
Redlands (5-9)
Cal Tech (0-14)

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Petey Fan on September 19, 2005, 09:36:33 pm
   PP wll miss Turner but they have a Frosh guard , Petey Kass... He'll be a crowd fave pronto. Great passer...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on September 19, 2005, 11:30:47 pm
What's the fan support like at the various SCIAC gyms?  I've been to a game at Cal Tech, where the players outnumbered the fans, and a game at Oxy, which was rollicking, but was a tournament game (vs. Aurora), so I figure it doesn't provide a true measure of the usual support level.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on September 20, 2005, 03:19:53 pm
The fan support is usually pretty good, with the exception of games that are played when students are away.  SCIAC conf. games are great @Redlands, @CMS, @CLU, @OXY, @PP.  La Verne games can be interesting, only if the team is good...Whittier can't fill the gym...Cal Tech games are hard to watch. 

My favorite places to play were @Redlands, @CMS and at my beloved CLU "castle"...because the fans are right up on the court and it gets so loud.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on September 26, 2005, 03:12:00 pm
I know some of you will find this update annoying, but some of us are pretty fired up that they've started putting the roof on the new "castle".

Go to:

http://ww2.clunet.edu/building_clu/video_large.php

Hard to believe it's the final season in Boston Garden West...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on September 26, 2005, 06:28:33 pm
Wow, that new facility is going to be nice!

No more dead spots, no more hitting the roof, no more can't host a playoff game; but the games of horse are going to suffer.  The famous: over the pipe, don't hit the roof, and in.

Scandihoovian - 'boston garden west'  that is hilarious.

I will definetly have to catch a few games this year - Westmont on Dec. 10 should be a good game.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on September 26, 2005, 08:20:50 pm
Thanks, Castle - but I can't claim it totally as my own.  I think the idea started with one of the PP posters, possibly DJ Hyphen.

Die Hard-

I know Thousand Oaks is a long drive from Temecula, but you can be our number one road fan when we play out at PP, CMS, LaVerne and Redlands :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on September 29, 2005, 12:01:39 am
BTW-

I was checking out the CLU Sports site (http://ww2.clunet.edu/sports/m_basketball/index.php) tonight and noticed they have the new roster posted.  Hodges will be missed, but it looks like they did successfully recruit some new big men.  Nice to see - helps feed the preseason optimism  :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on September 30, 2005, 02:07:22 pm
It looks like the CLU coaching staff was busy last year; bringing in 5 freshmen from out-of-state...CO, WA, NV, AZ, OR.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on October 04, 2005, 06:40:57 pm
Here are my predictions for '05-06...
CMS 10-4
La Verne 9-5
P-P 9-5
OXY 9-5
CLU 8-6
Redlands 6-8
Whittier 5-9

La Verne has a very explosive backcourt, but I think CMS will have too much defense and experience and will win a close SCIAC race.  P-P, OXY, and CLU will need some surprises to win this year.
 
POY should be between Greenlee & Hollo.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on October 05, 2005, 11:22:20 am
Interesting thoughts Castle, I hope the Kingsmen are better than 8-6 this year although they're young and I know CMS, PP and LaVerne will be tough.

Unless I'm mistaken, it's 10 days until practice starts...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on October 05, 2005, 02:17:29 pm
Castle, your predictions only add up to a composite record of 56-42, leaving 14 losses (and no wins) unaccounted for. 

Also, you left out CalTech.

Oh.

(as Emily Litella)  Never mind.   :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on October 05, 2005, 02:45:05 pm
David-

Thanks for sharing your stream of consciousness with us - great for a laugh on a Wednesday morning.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 05, 2005, 08:07:34 pm
I know Thousand Oaks is a long drive from Temecula, but you can be our number one road fan when we play out at PP, CMS, LaVerne and Redlands :)

An interesting thought... I guess it just depends on how controversial I want to be?  ;)

Castle, your predictions only add up to a composite record of 56-42, leaving 14 losses (and no wins) unaccounted for.

Also, you left out CalTech.

Oh.

(as Emily Litella) Never mind. :D

David, you're terrible! Don't be dissing me new team!  >:( :P :D

Cal tech, Wheaton with all our player losses, who will have a worse record next year?  :o

Incidentally, hi from Cali!  :) :) :)

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 05, 2005, 10:23:50 pm
April,

I'd say that's a pretty easy pick!  As long as Bill Harris* is around, they could lose ALL their 'returning' players each year and still beat Cal Tech (and probably North Park)!  Though if the 'extra' losses they appear to have suffered prove true, they may be looking at 6th or 7th in CCIW.

*I'd say that CLEARLY the 3 best coaches in the CCIW are Bosko (I have no idea how to spell or pronounce his full name - the NP national-title guy, now at Carthage), Trost, and Harris - and I have no idea in which order to put them.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on October 06, 2005, 01:23:39 pm
Castle,
P-P 9-5??? Come on, you've got to be kidding. There are better odd of them going 14-0 then 9-5 and finishing in a tie with La Verne. CMS strong Defense and experience, they have less experience then PP and with only 4 returnees who played big minutes back, one of whom is a shooter and a weak defender, where do you come up with that...awful picks awful
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on October 06, 2005, 03:51:59 pm
bballfan2-

We'll have to wait and see about the predictions.  At least mine predictions total the correct amount; unlike yours which totals 64-49...?  And how does Whittier go 7-8?

You might be right about the experience of PP, but I think the loss of Lloyd and Terrance will be the main factor.  For CMS the key will be Parsons and Taylor-both returning all-league players.

Either way it will be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Petey Fan on October 06, 2005, 09:00:53 pm
  Regarding PP-- Lloyd is back. He was granted another year because of medical redshirt...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on October 07, 2005, 03:06:42 pm
Which year did he get a medical redshirt?

He's a great player, but I wouldn't have been disappointed not to see him again...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 09, 2005, 02:34:37 am
Right, so, uhm, my new buddy and housemate went to California Lutheran, played soccer there, and was even the captain her senior year I believe.... so, I guess that whole debate is decided in your favor guys! Go uhm... what is your guys mascots again? (don't worry Pat, I do still remember where one can find that)  :D ;) ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on October 09, 2005, 05:05:26 pm
Castle,

I stick by my final standing predictions and if you read the post right before them, I acknowledge that those are just ball park records and that I wasn't going to take the time to balance them out.  That said, the loss of Norman-Terrance is a big one for the sagecocks, but Petey Fan seems pretty confident about his new guy, so hopefully that will pan out.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on October 10, 2005, 05:20:58 pm
DieHard-

The CLU men's teams are called the Kingsmen.  Your housemate, however, was a Regal - that's the problem with nicknames chosen pre-women's athletics.

You're coming to a conference with some classic nicknames, in addition to the Kingsmen and Regals you have:

Sagehens
Poets
Athenas
Stags
Leopards (or Leos)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 14, 2005, 08:26:47 pm
Hello! Hello Hello Hello Hellooooo...

Lol... practice has started! What's going on peoples?  :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on October 18, 2005, 12:45:57 pm
How about the Tournament expanding, 11 more bids for teams that had good seasons, but didn't win thier conference.  Probably won't help SCIAC teams much, unless somebody finishs second w/20+ wins.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 18, 2005, 04:48:37 pm
well, we do know that the chances are better that before... that's not nothing!

it's sure going to make things interesting, whatever happens!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: fosheezie on October 24, 2005, 08:47:02 pm
Oh yes, it is that time again....I can smell it, or is that the horrible odor coming from Coach Dains drawers over at Cal Lu.  Yes, practice is underway, and that diabolical genius Katmandu is busy over at P-P creating a monster.  I saw that someone predicted a 9-5 conference record for the Cocks.  Are you smoking something...Kat would never let that happen, especially with the frontcourt they have.  If they don't too big headed my boys Sexy Wexy, Al "Lew Alcindor Jr." Lloyd, and "Mr. Ohio" Tom Hollow, will run it.  As for Turner leaving PP, hey, Kat is a tough cookie to play for, he will tell you when you mess up, some guys can handle it, some guys can't.  Some guys hate him, but the dude gets results and he is a hell of a coach, so you can't disagree with the facts.   ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on October 25, 2005, 02:54:48 pm
Fosheezie...you are right PP will be tough, especially the Big's.  I did predict them to be 9-5, but that was before I heard Lloyd was coming back.  With him, PP has to be the favorites.  I do recall PP going 6-8 (9-16 overall) in '02-'03 - so don't order your rings yet.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on October 25, 2005, 07:14:51 pm
Oh yes, it is that time again....I can smell it, or is that the horrible odor coming from Coach Dains drawers over at Cal Lu.

It could be the smell of bile from another PP first round gag job  ;)

Fear not Fosheezie, I know the hens will be tough - especially with all that talent in the frontcourt.  It will be fun to watch them match up with all the young big kids the Kingsmen brought in.

How much help will Turner be for CMS?

Does anybody know if Oxy reloaded?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on October 26, 2005, 09:22:22 pm
last i heard, PP might not have one of their key players this year...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on October 26, 2005, 11:28:16 pm
Hyphen-

Other than Turner?


Thought I'd also mention that CLU has updated the look and feel of it's sports website:

www.clusports.com

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on October 27, 2005, 06:45:15 pm
yup, but i don't want to speak on it unless it's official
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on October 28, 2005, 12:01:19 am
Hello again everybody.  I've been busy on the football site but just wanted to drop in at the start of this season for bball.  Pomona recieved some votes, but what is this about a player going across the street to CMS...I wonder how many times that has happened for even a non-athlete?  Seems...interesting.

PC, is the #28 team in your poll Southwestern (AZ)? 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 28, 2005, 02:27:41 am
No, it's the Southwestern Pirates of Georgetown, TX, co-champions of the SCAC with their archrival Trinity (TX) last season. Southwestern (AZ) is an NCCAA school.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 29, 2005, 12:22:07 am
When we got Pomona-Pitzer's preseason info for the Top 25 voters, they said Kamau Norman-Terrence and Chaz Turner were not coming back from last year.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on October 29, 2005, 04:52:00 am
yeah, luckily, the rumor I heard ended up not happening...so scratch that last post, thankfully
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 01, 2005, 11:38:54 am
okay, I'm dying here... are there any scrimmages for SCIAC teams this week or anything??  :-[ :o :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on November 02, 2005, 01:32:07 pm
all I can find for this week is :  OXY @ Utah State on Friday (ex.) and Redlands @ UC-Riverside on Saturday (ex.).
                                               
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on November 03, 2005, 12:48:47 pm
DieHard-

That Redlands - Riverside one is in your neck of the woods.  It would provide you with some early exposure to "the system" which is way more entertaining to watch against a non-SCIAC opponent.  Most of the conference schools have figured out how to deal with it.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: digs on November 04, 2005, 02:11:59 pm
diehard,

Since you may never get to see an actual Grinnell game you should definately go to the Redlands/UC Riverside game.  The first meeting of 2 system teams!!!  JeffP would be so jealous.   (Scones and coffee are not provided however.)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on November 04, 2005, 05:33:21 pm
digs-

Riverside runs the system?

I did not know that.  What happens when two system teams play each other?  It seems like it might negate many of the perceived strategic advantages.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: TeeDub on November 04, 2005, 06:17:27 pm
I don't think UCR runs the system....I suspect it will be more LMU style.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 04, 2005, 06:53:28 pm
Thanks guys!  :)

I saw that Redlands game in their sched... just wondering if anyone knew about any scrimmages or anything, which would obviously not be published.

Anyhow, the season is almost here!  :) :) :):-*
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on November 04, 2005, 10:52:51 pm
Utah State beat Oxy 55-36. Oxy played a great first half. They were ahead most of the half, and with 1 second left went up by one. Then a great pass and a great shot left Oxy going to the locker down by one. Not bad at all.

Then the dreaded second half . . . the ugly, ugly second half. Oh well.

Any report from Redlands? Did they put up 150 and lose by 30 again?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on November 04, 2005, 10:56:17 pm
Yeah, sorry about that score I posted. I was looking at the wrong score from the stats page.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on November 07, 2005, 11:30:02 am
Oxy always impresses me with their non-conference play...yeah, so they got drilled in the 2nd half...at least they hung with em for half of it.  Utah State won't be as good as last year's NCAA team, but they're still solid. 

The strange part to me is that Oxy has played D1 and NAIA opponents tight for the past 5 years or so, but they never seem to really build on that and carry it over to SCIAC (save for their undefeated year of course)

anyway, PP played Chapman on Friday...no word on how they looked though.  [white guy in horror movie] i'll have to investigate [/white guy in horror movie]
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on November 07, 2005, 12:34:08 pm
Claremont, PP & Oxy can further our cause here in the pre-season with victories against Wash U, Augsburg & Amherst.  Step up boys. 

Looks like the league gets a little better this year top to bottom. 

Oxy hanging by one in the first half and losing by under 30 at Utah State is legit.   Fair question about their historical inability to build on early season momentum. 

Preseason predicted order of finish:

1.  PP - Kats
2.  CMS - slightly better than PP but will lose 2 road games that Kats will win;  transfer factor will make the rivalry game even more significant, if he can get past nerves CMS could sweep PP
3.  CLU - could surprise folks with stacked freshmen
4.  Oxy/LV tie - Greenlee will put up #s, Oxy too good to get swept by anyone but need to show that they can win on the road
5. Redlands - system will continue to punish non-conference opponents
6.  Whittier - better talent than this spot but have to show an ability to be the Big 3
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 08, 2005, 01:06:23 am
With all the exhibitions and out of region contests, Oxy only has a 16 game schedule this year. Kind of makes a Pool C bid unlikely.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on November 09, 2005, 01:46:42 pm
Roop-

I think we've got bigger fish to fry as a conference before we start getting a pool C bid.  This year's champ getting a couple of victories to start the tourney would go a long way.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 09, 2005, 06:58:28 pm
Claremont, PP & Oxy can further our cause here in the pre-season with victories against Wash U, Augsburg & Amherst.  Step up boys.

Those are regular-season games, not pre-season games. The regular season starts on November 18, not whenever the conference portion of the slate begins.

Also, Augsburg doesn't belong in the category of potential SCIAC prestige wins that includes Wash U and Amherst. The Auggies went 9-16 last season, and 9-16, 11-14, 10-15, and 12-13 before then, going back from 2003-04 to the 2000-01 season. And they have a brand-new coach this year who will no doubt be instituting a new system and feeling his way through the first few games of the season.

Beating the Auggies is important for Pomona-Pitzer and CMS, because Augsburg is a fellow West Region team, but it would hardly be a reason to break out the champagne and fine china.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 09, 2005, 08:43:06 pm
lol! And the 783 times that Greg will lay down the smack for violators of -the whole "pre-season-vs-pre-conference" issue starts already!  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2005, 09:06:22 pm
April,

You must have miss-counted - it was 864 last season! ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 10, 2005, 07:42:12 am
lol! And the 783 times that Greg will lay down the smack for violators of -the whole "pre-season-vs-pre-conference" issue starts already! :D :D :D

Gotta start somewhere, right?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on November 10, 2005, 12:26:00 pm
It's OK - over on the football board they've started the annual who qualifies for a Pool B vs Pool C discussion.   :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 10, 2005, 05:44:51 pm
lol... oh, yah, that's always fun  :-\ ::)

I'm with Pat, don't discuss things that can be found on his website... it's really annoying, and shows that you lack major researching skills.  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 10, 2005, 10:57:43 pm
Gotta start somewhere, right?

Yes, and I am very honored that you started with my new home board... (bows) :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 11, 2005, 04:21:37 am
I'm with Pat, don't discuss things that can be found on his website... it's really annoying, and shows that you lack major researching skills. :D

I kinda like it when Pat has to explain something for the umpteeth time ... or he has to direct somebody to something that can be easily found on this website with two or three minutes' worth of looking. I can almost hear his world-weary sigh as he types.  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 11, 2005, 11:41:55 pm
I kinda like it when Pat has to explain something for the umpteeth time ... or he has to direct somebody to something that can be easily found on this website with two or three minutes' worth of looking. I can almost hear his world-weary sigh as he types.  :D

Hehe... yeah, don't tell him (since you know, he's never going to read this or anything) but I find it sorta funny.  :D

The season is almost here!! Woo!  :-*
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 17, 2005, 01:36:21 am
Be sure to head over to the Multi-Regional Topics Board and select your team for the new Survivor Pool!  :D

You might actually win something!  ;D

Deadline is Friday before the first game's tipoff
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: RFB on November 17, 2005, 05:19:10 pm
UC Riverside 162  Exibition
Redlands      123
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on November 17, 2005, 08:42:04 pm
shocking
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2005, 12:43:00 am
I kinda like it when Pat has to explain something for the umpteeth time ... or he has to direct somebody to something that can be easily found on this website with two or three minutes' worth of looking. I can almost hear his world-weary sigh as he types.  :D

Hehe... yeah, don't tell him (since you know, he's never going to read this or anything) but I find it sorta funny.  :D

The season is almost here!! Woo!  :-*

Took me a while to get here. Football playoffs starting and all. :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on November 21, 2005, 02:25:38 pm
It was a tough opening weekend of play for the SCIAC.  Conference goes 0-5 against D3 opponents.  Whittier lost to Williams and Bowdoin in MA.  Redlands lost both games in VA, allowing 148 and 142 points.  CLU lost to Edgewood.  Whittier gave Williams; who lost in the NCAA final two years ago, a good game-but lost 84-80.

OXY 2-0, CMS 1-0, PP 0-1, La Verne 0-1...noticed that Lloyd didn't play in the PP game.  Notable newcomers - Slade(PP-Fr.) had 8pts. in loss to Vanguard.  Acerboni (CLU-So.) and Miller(CLU-Fr.) started in both games for CLU.

Washington U. and Augsburg will be in town this Fri/Sat. to play CMS and PP...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: digs on November 21, 2005, 02:46:52 pm
Is anybody out there??   The season has started (or preseason as we like to say to get a rise out of Sager).

It is so quiet out here that Diehard fan, who calls this her new "home site," has resorted to going to other sites and disparaging "west coast" basketball.  In the future can you keep her busy out here.   :)   (just kidding April)

I see on the Lee Fulmer Schedule at Redlands that he Apprentice School of Newport News VA is scheduled to compete.  Just wondering...does Donald fire a player after each loss?  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 21, 2005, 03:06:46 pm
Seriously digs, I can't get any of these people to talk!  :'(   :D

j/k castle, I appreciate the summary... I've been so crazy busy with my cousin's graduation from boot camp I haven't had time to make it to games this weekend  :-[

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on November 21, 2005, 05:16:07 pm
SCIAC fans, I'm disappointed at our conference coming out of the first weekend.  Redlands & Whittier didn't do anything to help our cause nationally.  I guess I got a little too excited when Whittier looked competitive against Williams Friday night (even though Williams is down they are still Williams).  Then they roll over Saturday night.  And Redlands gets blown in 2 games. 

Pomona's loss won't hurt us because it was to another S. Cal. NAIA school that nobody cares about.  Kats has plenty of time to work out the kinks and scout his opponents to death so he gets another banner.  He also can advance his less than impressive non-conference DIII record in the next several weeks.  Kats is the best we have and he needs to get his boys to do better outside of our conference both against the snow-birds and in the tourney.

Oxy, Cal Lu & Claremont can help too. 

Will someone please step up and break this vicious cycle.



   
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on November 21, 2005, 08:45:03 pm
PP's loss is a little disappointing cause they were up two and just needed a stop...but unfortunately some help shifted around and Vanguard's shooter was left open for the game winning three.  Then PP had some trouble getting off a shot in the final few seconds...big shout to the clock operator who allowed Vanguard to scout the play Kats drew up cause he forget to start the clock....that good ol home court disadvantage

and yeah...Lloyd was out...and will be for some more games  :-\
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on November 23, 2005, 08:41:52 am
One of the reasons PP tends to struggle in pre-season/non conference games early on is that there are typically some juniors studying abroad, who don't return until Spring semester.  Not sure if any players are gone now, but that's usually the case.  Hoops is one of the few sports that spans two semesters, so players go in the Fall and come back in time for conference play.  It means that they're a little behind, but that's the way it goes at PP.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on November 23, 2005, 03:54:22 pm
Here's a thought, 1 or 2 SCIAC teams will make the tourny, that will sort itself out, until then why doesn't everyone stop whinning about past performances or lack of respect and just go enjoy the free basketball. 

As for PP a couple of tough losses to 2 decent teams, Brown's out as is Lloyd they'll be back, but Pomona's still dangerous without them. Once they get back, you guys can all come out and watch something special. 

Sidenote * West coast whiner * may be the perfect name

PP will be in Salem '06, barring further injury.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on November 23, 2005, 04:57:37 pm
BBf, I like how you think.  You might be the first Sagecock ever to mention that type of a goal for your program.  Most PP fans look to find excuses for why PP hasn't won a game west of the Mississippi in post-season play or outside of regional play-ins for that matter. 

How about you bring two Ws home to us this weekend and show some fools outside of Cali that we know how to ball.  W-B will be the MVP, tell him to showcase his skills against some of midwest travelers. 

 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciac_is_fun on November 24, 2005, 02:19:54 am
does anyone know where minney from clu is?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: fosheezie on November 24, 2005, 02:23:25 pm
So P-P is O-2, with losses to NAIA Vanguard and D2 UCSD.  No need to worry.  That is how Katmandu always starts the season.  He intelligently schedules some tough games in preseason to expose weaknesses, work on them, and then play better once league opens up.  He cares less about preseason wins, its all about league.  And yes, Lloyd is out, but he'll be back, trust me, the guy is a gamer, he will be back when it counts.....SCIAC play.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on November 24, 2005, 02:52:00 pm
My, my.  Two references to the "preseason" in one post.  Greg Sager is probably choking on his candied yams!   :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 25, 2005, 12:22:41 am
My, my. Two references to the "preseason" in one post. Greg Sager is probably choking on his candied yams! :D

I lay off the candied yams, DC. It's all about the mashed potatoes and biscuits for me.

But ... yeah, since I don't like to disappoint, and as long as you're going to give me a lead-in like that, I might as well unleash my canned speech. Here goes:

It's not the preseason anymore, pomonaalum and fosheezie. The regular season started last Friday. These games count towards a team's record. The word you're looking for is "non-conference", not "preseason".
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 25, 2005, 03:05:17 am
The truth is out.  I now realize how the great Greg Sager has so many posts!  Everytime someone says preseason, he has to respond and scold them! lol  ;D

And by the way Mr. Sager, you gotta go with the brown sugar yams, and mashed potatoes of course!   :P  Hope you belonged to the clean plate club and got your apple and/or pumpkin pie.  Apple is my choice, with a little vanilla ice cream on the side.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 25, 2005, 07:44:55 am
The truth is out. I now realize how the great Greg Sager has so many posts! Everytime someone says preseason, he has to respond and scold them! lol ;D

It's in my contract. You think this HOF status is free?

And by the way Mr. Sager, you gotta go with the brown sugar yams, and mashed potatoes of course! :P Hope you belonged to the clean plate club and got your apple and/or pumpkin pie. Apple is my choice, with a little vanilla ice cream on the side.

I don't take to people exotifyin' the humble tuber Ipomoea batatas with unnecessary additives, Tom. Give me a plain dollop of sweet potatoes with a little good ol' fashioned butter on top for moisture, thankyouverymuch. Leave the candy and the brown sugar for the kiddies. The staple itself has enough flavor as it is; there's a reason why they call it the sweet potato, after all.

I am always a proud member of the Clean Plate Club on the last Thursday of November. My dessert was apple pie a la mode (vanilla ice cream), capped with a rousing win in Trivial Pursuit ('60s edition) over my hosts and the other guests. A splendid Thanksgiving. Hope yours was, too.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: digs on November 25, 2005, 08:40:58 am
Hmm....

Greg wins at Trivial Pursuit...who would have thunk it!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: fosheezie on November 27, 2005, 11:55:59 pm
Its all preseason to me.   This isnt D1 here.  The selection committee is so picky with us westerners that the main goal for the majority of SCIAC coaches is to prepare themselves for league play and then win league.  You could play some patsies, go undefeated in "preseason", lose two games to a team that goes undefeated in league and still wind up at home during the tourney.  So yes, these games are not as important as league games.  Thanks again Greg, happy holidays!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 28, 2005, 01:33:12 am
It's not a matter of relative importance that makes these games regular season rather than preseason. Nobody thinks that a non-conference game is as important as a conference game. The SCIAC is certainly not unique in that regard; everybody shares that sentiment. Rather, it's a matter of the calendar (the regular season starts on the third Friday in November) and the recordbook (these games count; just check out Pat's team pages if you don't believe me).

Besides, non-conference games played against West Region opponents are a lot more important than you're letting on, Fosheezie. They're not just garden-variety non-conference games. Pomona-Pitzer's and CMS's wins over Augsburg mean one more win in the in-region W-L pct. category looked at on Selection Monday. And the upcoming games SCIAC teams are playing against the likes of George Fox and Whitworth could have even bigger repercussions.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on November 28, 2005, 12:03:47 pm
does anyone know where minney from clu is?

He is out with medical problems; probably won't return to action.  Tough break for Minney, he could have had a big season...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 28, 2005, 12:26:13 pm
Hello all,

First time SCIAC poster, long time D3'er.  My D3 knowledge stems from me playing all four years at a small D3 in illinois and working with the same team for three years after that.  

over the weekend I was very excited to see the show (Redlands)which has been called Grinell West vs. CU.  I have played against "the sytem" and my former coach has even been quoted in USA Today describing it as mice running out of a box (or something like that).  What i saw this weekend was what i expected in the scoring but the actual style of play was a little different.  The first thing i noticed is that the 3 ball was not as implemented for redlands as i thought it would be (or as grinell uses it).  also the level of play (again for redlands) wasnt very high.  i am going to assume that this years redlands team just isnt very good (25 is a player, and they have one other shooter but that is it).  The game was still entertaining, as CU seems to be playing very well right now ( have seen them 3 times now), and the teams combined for like 250, but the level of play from redlands was sub par.  is this year's team just not very good or is this what you expect to see from the bulldogs.  

i have also seen oxy this year and i would put them in the top 5 of the MWC.  the midwest conference is a top heavy conference comprised of teams from illinois(4) Wisconsin(5) and Iowa(1).  the dominant team in the past few years has been LU who has a an all american forward and last week beat #2 in the nation osh kosh.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on November 28, 2005, 03:45:19 pm
Scot, welcome.  Thanks for the input.  We generally like to sit quietly over here in our bottom-tier conference and just talk a lot of junk back and forth about our usually very competitive conference.  Sagers & PC are always lurking nearby to put us in our place in the DIII landscape in the event that the occassional pop-off (myself on occassion included) starts to think that we are better than we are. 

Any chance you can share with us some perspective about your alma mater, a very SCIAC-like liberal arts insitution.  Folks in our conference, from coaches down to former players, think that national success is something that is beyond our institutional capabilities.  Is there a top-to-bottom focus on the success of the basketball program at Wooster?  How is it that Wooster has been able to rise up to the top of the top tier? 

And for the rest of the SCIAC fans, based on early season indicators, it looks like another long year for the SCIAC and a very short post-season. Carthage beats Concordia.  Weakest NAIA team in league Vanguard beats PP PP and LV.  CLU loss to Edgewood.  UR gets bombed back east.  Oxy piling up Ws against La Sierra. 
 
Kats will rule the SCIAC again with 7 teams battling for second.  Unless he gets lucky with a first round against a Colorado College or equivalent, PP will lose by 15-20 points in the first round.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on November 28, 2005, 07:15:37 pm
Isn't it a little early to be writing off the SCIAC?  As for my alma mater specifically, won't the results of Oxy's upcoming outings against William Jessup and Azusa Pacific may be able to shed some light?  APU is highly ranked in NAIA and William Jessup beat UC Davis in an exhibition . . . so does this mean anything?  I'm mainly a football fan looking to broaden my horizons, feel free to educate me.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on November 28, 2005, 07:45:18 pm
From his comments, I believe that "Old Fighting Scot" is a Monmouth College Scot, not a Wooster Scot.  However, I happen to be both a close follower of the Wooster program and a soon-to-be SoCal denizen (I'm on the long road west right now), I'll take a stab at your questions. 
Any chance you can share with us some perspective about your alma mater, a very SCIAC-like liberal arts insitution.  Folks in our conference, from coaches down to former players, think that national success is something that is beyond our institutional capabilities.  Is there a top-to-bottom focus on the success of the basketball program at Wooster?  How is it that Wooster has been able to rise up to the top of the top tier? 
I'm not quite sure what you mean by a "top-to-bottom focus," but whatever you mean I think Wooster has it.  Men's basketball is very important to Wooster, to the administration, the alumni, the students, and the townsfolk.  (Football is, of course, more important, since it is Ohio, but that's neither here nor there.)  The men's basketball program does not suffer from a lack of resources, has very good facilities, and great fan support.  Wooster's coach (Steve Moore, now in his 19th season) is one of the best X's-and-O's coaches in the country, and is positively revered by his current and former players.  Put that all together and you get a steady supply of top-quality (for D3) players (success breeds success) and relative success on the national scene.

Wooster has not really "risen" to the top of the top tier, in two ways.  On the one hand, you could say that they're not there: they've only made the Final Four one time, 3 years ago, and never got beyond the Sweet Sixteen until about 1999.  But on the other hand, you could say that Wooster has always been at the top of the top tier:  Wooster is the second-winningest program all time in D3 (trailing conference rival Wittenberg University by about 100 games, and essentially tied with Illinois Wesleyan), and has had three coaches with 300+ wins (only Kansas and Utah can also say that).  Basketball success is a long, long tradition at Wooster, and a great source of pride.

I'm not sure how that would apply to SCIAC schools, being a SCIAC novice.  I'm interested in learning more about the SCIAC as I get to some games with Diehardfan this season.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 28, 2005, 08:33:53 pm
Greg wins at Trivial Pursuit...who would have thunk it!

Too true! Glad that all those random facts are useful for some other thing besides impressing the ladies, Greg.  :D ;) :P

the level of play from redlands was sub par.  is this year's team just not very good or is this what you expect to see from the bulldogs.

Folks in our conference, from coaches down to former players, think that national success is something that is beyond our institutional capabilities.

And for the rest of the SCIAC fans, based on early season indicators, it looks like another long year for the SCIAC and a very short post-season. Carthage beats Concordia.  Weakest NAIA team in league Vanguard beats PP PP and LV.  CLU loss to Edgewood.  UR gets bombed back east. Oxy piling up Ws against La Sierra.
 
Kats will rule the SCIAC again with 7 teams battling for second.  Unless he gets lucky with a first round against a Colorado College or equivalent, PP will lose by 15-20 points in the first round.

 :( :-\ :'( :-[

The idea of institutional capibilities is a complex one... why do you, and others think that you are incapable?

I'm interested in learning more about the SCIAC as I get to some games with Diehardfan this season.

Woo!  ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 28, 2005, 09:18:24 pm
David,

You TOO are moving to LaLa land!  I fear I will NEVER meet two of my favorite posters (you and April)!

Of course, I was at Wheaton for the MIAA-CCIW showdown last year - it was YOU guys who stood ME up!  IF we never meet, let that be on your conscience! ;) ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 29, 2005, 12:02:04 am
Awww... chuck, we'll meet soon, don't you fret. You are one of my top priorities of those I haven't met.  :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on November 29, 2005, 12:10:47 am
Chuck, you could always come to LA, you know.  You wouldn't be the first Michigander to visit the Southland.  I realize Los Angeles is not Ypsilanti, but then again what is?  Come visit and I'll use my HOF status to get you good seats at a CalTech game.   :D

[Three totally lame jokes in four sentences--a new P.U. record?]

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 29, 2005, 12:38:13 am
David,

I did make it out to LA in 1972 - geez, did they mess up a perfectly nice desert! ;)

Besides, I have a brother in the Bay area - would I be allowed to visit LA?

CalTech TICKETS?  Isn't that an oxymoron?

Oops, only three gags in three lines - you win. ;D  [Wait a second, you had 3 in 4 - I win!]

P.S., can you remain a d3 Hall-of-Famer if you move to a place where there are almost no d3  teams?  (You may have to point out that the Cabonney Rule was shattered!)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 29, 2005, 12:58:16 am
[Too true! Glad that all those random facts are useful for some other thing besides impressing the ladies, Greg.  :D ;) :P

Ladies are impressed by trivia mavens? Gee, I must've missed that memo.  ::)

The idea of institutional capibilities is a complex one... why do you, and others think that you are incapable?

He doesn't, April. West Coast Whiner is the The Artist Formerly Known as Oxy '03 Salem Pavers. Ever since he first appeared in the SCIAC room about three or so years ago (he was "George Bush" back then) he has relentlessly championed the proposition that the SCIAC is an underrated league in overall D3 terms and that SCIAC teams are capable of going to the Final Four and even the title game if they would only allow themselves to approach March with a more positive mindset. He's made me the bete noire of this room (Pat as well) for pointing out the lack of success that the SCIAC has had historically, both in the tournament and against the snowbirds from elsewhere around D3 who fly into SoCal every November and December and more than hold their own in SCIAC gyms. But I actually do respect his bulldog tenacity on the SCIAC's behalf, and his devotion to the league and to this room in particular.

What he was doing in that post you cited is called "sandbagging", or "pulling a Lou Holtz". Given his past history in this room, I'm pretty sure that he actually does think that the '06 SCIAC champs (he appears to be banking on Pomona-Pitzer at this point) can make a run in March if they believe in themselves. Your trust-filled tendency to accept the words of others at face value has once again led you down the garden path, April.  ;) I was hoping that David's arrival in SoCal would help shield you from the ceaseless cynicism and dripping irony of Posting Up habitues such as West Coast Whiner, but David assures me that he will only make things worse.  :D

Awww... chuck, we'll meet soon, don't you fret. You are one of my top priorities of those I haven't met. :)

Words not to be taken lightly, Chuck. The number of people April likes who have green clothing in their closets is not nearly as big as it used to be.  ;)

P.S., can you remain a d3 Hall-of-Famer if you move to a place where there are almost no d3  teams?

We in the HOF consider this to be missionary work on David's part, Chuck.  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 29, 2005, 01:11:39 am
Awww... chuck, we'll meet soon, don't you fret. You are one of my top priorities of those I haven't met. :)

Words not to be taken lightly, Chuck. The number of people April likes who have green clothing in their closets is not nearly as big as it used to be.  ;)

P.S., can you remain a d3 Hall-of-Famer if you move to a place where there are almost no d3  teams?

We in the HOF consider this to be missionary work on David's part, Chuck.  :D

Along with the omitted parts of the post, pure genius (though I have almost NOTHING green in my closet - my wife says it just doesn't go with me! [do I need a new wife? ;)])  I 'applaud'!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 29, 2005, 11:52:46 am
I am indeed a living breathing Monmouth College Fighting Scot, relocated to the I.E.  Dont know much about Wooster but i can tell you all you want to know about the MWC.......
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on November 29, 2005, 04:28:16 pm
GS is too good.  You are actually wrong, however, about any hidden optimism on my part.  Your barrage of cold-hard facts have gotten to me.  I no longer believe that a SCIAC team, especially PP this year, can do anything more than maybe win a game in the Tourney.  I used to look at the talent at Wooster, Wittenberg, Carthage, Amherst, Catholic, Hopkins, and think that on neutral floors the talent of those teams would not result in the kind of record that we have seen from the SCIAC in the post-season.  I now don't believe that.  Talent wins games more than coaching and I've come to see that my analysis was flawed.  My new theory is that as dominant as Pomona has been in this conference, they at best have 1 starter out of their first 5 of any recent championship team that could start on any team in Salem in the past 10 years.  There may be a team or two that would have 2 start for one of those teams, but the other three would be the 9-12 men.  The second 5 is comprised of what mostly would be JV players at elite D3 schools. 

Stats don't lie and I'm going to stop beating on a drum about how schools like Pomona and Claremont shouldn't accept Williams & Wooster being national programs while they are kings in a bottom-tier conference.  I understand too that nobody really cares in Claremont or for that matter anywhere else in the SCIAC.   Institutional apathy and widespread acceptance of mediocrity.  Trust me, there isn't an administrator at Pomona, Pitzer or Claremont who emailed the coaches last weekend asking them what is needed to help them compete with a very young and up and coming Washington U. 

But having said all that, I'm not going to let OFS come in here and talk about Oxy being the 5th best program in their conference.  You have to show us something to back that up.  I think a couple of years ago when Oxy played Aurora in the Tourney, a team that beat Monmouth by 20 that year,  Oxy handled them a 20 point loss.  Granted, that was a couple of years ago but I still think Oxy or for that matter, any of the SCIAC's big 3, would fare well against a MWC team. 

Redlands is not representative of the conference.  They have a fun system but you are right about the talent issues, which also get exposed by pretty much every SCIAC team.
 

       

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on November 29, 2005, 04:44:00 pm
I think that Oxy and Pomona are slated to play Amherst and Whitworth at the Oxy Classic on Jan. 2 and 3.  The results of those games may be a good indicator of SCIAC quality this year and the the potential depth of a SCIAC run into the playoffs . . .

or not . . .   :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on November 29, 2005, 08:23:12 pm
Last year I gave the SCIAC ADs and SIDs a year reprieve from criticism because I was so pleased with the redesigned conference Website.  That was then...

Do any SCIAC schools pay for SIDs or is it a student work-study program.  Actually, it can't be the latter because then that would actually be a creative solution to tight budgets and we would probably have a resource with some value.  We are at the end of November and there are ZERO stats, scores and data posted about 2005-06 SCIAC basketball.  Any reason why?

Hats off to Oxy, Cal Lu, Whittier/Redlands, in that order, for at least moving their content into the proper season.  Oxy has the best Website in my view for their hoops program and Cal Lu's is also good, but not as robust.  Nice of Pomona and Claremont to care enough about their teams this season to put up timely, fresh material...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 30, 2005, 12:02:49 pm
But having said all that, I'm not going to let OFS come in here and talk about Oxy being the 5th best program in their conference.  You have to show us something to back that up.  I think a couple of years ago when Oxy played Aurora in the Tourney, a team that beat Monmouth by 20 that year,  Oxy handled them a 20 point loss.  Granted, that was a couple of years ago but I still think Oxy or for that matter, any of the SCIAC's big 3, would fare well against a MWC team. 

Redlands is not representative of the conference.  They have a fun system but you are right about the talent issues, which also get exposed by pretty much every SCIAC team.

MC was 2-14 in the conference that year.  Very much so a very bad MWC team that year.  that MC team had lost 7 seniors from the previous year, and had one of the worst records in MC history.  not a very good example.  this years oxy could not have beaten last year's MC (MC finished 5th in the MWC last year) and this years MC (though i havent seen them play) should be better than last years team. 

Also i wasnt really trying to smite oxy.  in the MWC the top 4 teams make the conference tourney and like last year there are usually 5 or 6 teams that are in contention for the title every year.  Oxy is good enough to contend for the MWC title within the 5 or 6 teams that usually do, but they did not impress me enough to proclaim them a top tier team.  if you didnt know, two unranked MC teams have beaten two top-15 wiac schools within the last week.

I agree Oxy has a very good athletic website, one of the best I've seen...... ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on November 30, 2005, 01:50:34 pm
OFS, appreciate the disagreement.  Glad to see your early-season success against the powerful WIAC. 

A conference tourney should help the SCIAC.   If it helps gets our teams a 1st round win every now and then it will be a success.  Oxy's run several years ago gave me some hope but our conference performance the past 2 years has brought me back to earth.   
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on November 30, 2005, 05:54:42 pm
There are usually complaints on this board about SCIAC teams not travelling to other parts of the country.  Caltech just completed a three game trip to Texas.

At least they have the right idea. 8)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on November 30, 2005, 11:33:06 pm
Pavers/Whiner (it's gonna take me a while to get used to the new handle)

Have you seen the new CLU Sports website?  It's a nice upgrade.

www.clusports.com

The SCIAC page continually suffers from broken links on the front page.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on December 01, 2005, 03:05:23 pm
Definite improvement at CLU Scandi.  Someone did good work there.  Maybe it is a sign of things to come.  With the new facility, maybe CLU will use the Mo' to bring in some better than SCIAC-level talent and make another tourney run.

Got the below from a Blog griping about Pac-10 leadership, or lack thereof.  Pretty harsh but justified.  Comparatively, the Pac-10 in football, like the SCIAC in every significant sport, particularly basketball, is a red-headed step child to the rest of the country.  I'll acknowledge that it is definitely justified by our non-conference DIII performance, particularly in the post-season.  But as a fan I find it difficult to accept mediocrity and being a bottom tier conference.   I don't believe anyone has ever raised an excuse that should be bought (lack of $; administrative & campus-wide athletic apathy; recruiting challenges; too much sun; regional isolation).   

SIDs, ADs, Administrators and others in the SCIAC who are in positions to influence SCIAC athletics, please substitute your name and title for Mr. Hansen.   


"Mr. Hansen represents:

A history of weak leadership;

Demonstrated nonfeasance;

A lack of accountability;

A feeble-minded and incompetent administrator;

A Commissioner who places his purely political and personal motives ahead of the best interests of the Conference; and

A prime example of one biding their time until retirement by esting on their laurels." 

 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 02, 2005, 12:11:36 pm
Chapman vs. mud scripps tonite at redlands, both teams won convincingly yesterday, anyone have any idea how this one will go?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on December 03, 2005, 05:18:42 pm
CMS will win by 9-14, in a well played game by both teams. The Difference will be CMS's pressure on the ball on D, and ball movement on offense.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on December 04, 2005, 01:26:53 pm
Well it looks like I was wrong, Champan by 7. In my defense I don't have the whole story but CMS had a player quit at HALFTIME, unusual to say the least. Maybe some of those circumstances caused the L.

Either way PP looked solid against Hope, if they keep it up against La Serria and Biola, that would be a great stepping stone for them as they approach league play.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on December 04, 2005, 05:27:49 pm
CMS had a player quit at HALFTIME, unusual to say the least.

 :o  :D details?
Title: RE: CMS losers against Chapman, Redlands continues to avoid playing basketball
Post by: bballfan2 on December 04, 2005, 10:48:29 pm
Word around here is that Saunders, their center, was unhappy that he wasn't playing, and argued with the coach about it during the first half.  Some how that lead to him walking off the bench during the first half, changing clothes, and leaving mid game. I wish I had more percise details, or a tape of it.

Any redlands have any thoughts on their team now that they've started 1-6? Still think they should use that system or should they try a more conventional route?...Oh well, at least after their next game they should be 2-6.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on December 05, 2005, 10:55:20 am
hahaha that's hilarious that a CMS dude quit mid-game...that's a new one.  i've seen it happen mid-practice (...Cutch :D), but never during a game.  Looks like he's no longer listed on their website...Saunders was the SCIAC Mark Madsen anyway...well, without the hustle.  and the dancing ability.


It's a bad sign for Redlands if they can't even get wins before the conference...these are the game they usually get by either beating up on weak opponents or surprising teams that aren't used to the system.  If they can't win now, SCIAC's gonna eat them up
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 05, 2005, 11:18:34 am
Redlands....

the problem with redlands is not the system it is the lack of players able to play in the system.  I saw redlands against Chapman (i know believe CU may be one of the better D3 teams in America, definitely top 25) and they just didnt do anything to validate playing the system.  i havent seen the stats but they couldnt have shot more than 30 treys.  What?  the system only producing 30 treys..  If you are going to give up the layups you need to counter with the three ball, what gives.  The most glaring thing is that it looked like redlands only had two guys that had any business shooting the ball from 3.  you cant play the system w/o shooters....  thats like drinking coffe without a cup....  It aint the system that is making Redlands lose, its the lack of talent.  I have seen three different teams run "the system" and i have played against the original.....  It works if you have talent Redlands doesnt......

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 05, 2005, 11:32:06 am
Chapman University....

I know this isnt the Independent board, but b/c of the proximity to the rest of the Sciac i believe it should be ok for me to talk about CU here.  Chapman is as good a D3 team as i have seen in my time around the division (going on 8 years).  The get production inside and out.  Have one of the best scorers in all of D3 (carney).  they have solid big men and all five positions rebound well.  the one concern of CU is that they are not ver deep at the guard spot.  they have had two injuries there and are one more away from potentially having a serious problem.  Wheatley is the backbone of the team, Carney can flat out take over games and brown can fill it up with the best of them.  CU will be a team to reckon with come mid february.  CU plays La Verne on Wednesday that seems to be another good test....
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on December 05, 2005, 12:14:26 pm
Do any Oxy fans know what schools are coming to the Oxy classic on Jan 2. ?
Btw, Any players that have to play a game after New Years needs to be commended. I used to go to the Classic when I was at Oxy just to add some support, even though there would only be about 75 05 100 fans at the game. I hope that there will be more people at these games..   
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on December 05, 2005, 04:13:14 pm
BE, the Classic has Pomona, Amhert and Whitworth.  Should be some good games.  Just scored a ticket to the National Championship game (note West Coast haters and Midwest football whiners:  the Left Coast is in the process wrapping up a 3rd straight national championship ) so I look forward to being one of the 50 folks in attendance at the Rock for a game.  Those snowbird games with nobody in the crowd are fun games.   No real pressure, just who is going to step up and ball.  Amherst's talent should set them apart but it will be fun to see if Pomona or Oxy can keep it under 10 against a top 10 team.  

I hope that Oxy's, Pomona's and Pitzer's Presidents, ADs and heads of Admission come watch those games against Amherst.  Newhall & Kats may pull some rabits out of a hat, but everyone will see the tremendous talent gap.  It will be nice for the apathetic SCIAC leaders to see up close and in person that elite liberal arts institutions can have elite athletic programs.     

SCIAC looks weak this year and in disarray.  Should be Kats walking away.     

 
     
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 05, 2005, 07:56:00 pm
WCW,

Were you talking d1 fb (if so, don't underestimate Texas - that should be a shoot-out!), or (being a d3 bball board) did you decide to claim UWSP (which is several hundred miles closer to the Atlantic than the Pacific, despite being in the West Region)? ;)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on December 05, 2005, 09:05:59 pm
Mr. Y, although I can mistake a fact or two I would never miss something that bad.  Of course I am talking about the gridiron and the Might Trojans.  Not discounting Texas, which has a better shot than Oklahoma did last year.  First Wooden, then Showtime, then Shaq, then the Trojans.  Dynasties have a way of popping up on the West Coast.   Not likely to happen in the SCIAC in any sport but a guy can dream.  At least we have the option to piggy-back as a fan onto a D1 program through graduate school. 

War Time
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 05, 2005, 09:52:29 pm
OK, just checking! ;)

We've got the Pistons (who ended Showtime ;D), and the Red Wings (and UM in '97).  Unfortunately we also have the Lions and Tigers! :'(

I notice you don't have an NFL team - want the Lions?  Cheap?!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on December 06, 2005, 02:16:47 pm
OFS, You are right about Champan.  They are looking really good so far...going back to last year they have won 18 in a row.  Although I have not seen them play this year; they look to be a veteran team with good leader, Carney.  I look for them to win 21-23 games and get a NCAA bid.  Lincoln will be CU's toughest opp. at the IND post-season tourney, which is in Santa Cruz this year.

Not sure if Chapman can match the run the '02-'03 OXY team that went on...time will tell.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on December 06, 2005, 02:49:32 pm
The only thing that will hurt Chapman's Tourny hopes if you're right is that they play at least 7 games against teams that are almost guaranteed victories. Home/Aways with La Serria, UC Santa Cruz, and West Coast Baptist. A game against Cal Tech. Also if whittier and La Verne don't do well in sciac that will hurt their strength. When I see their schedule I think they need at least 23 wins to be a guaranteed bid come tourny time.  They might do it though, they've looked good so far
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on December 06, 2005, 06:38:08 pm
Oxy is 5-0 and is going up against NAIA top ranked Azusa Pacific tonight at APU.  Should be interesting. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on December 06, 2005, 08:58:28 pm
Sabertooth, APU is just too tough for the SCIAC right now - or any DIII team for that matter.   Did you watch them in the finals last year on t.v.?  They would win against a lot of mid-major D1s.  A couple of DIII teams could maybe give them games, but nobody in the SCIAC.  This was the 2nd best team in NAIA last year, and they are better this yearr. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 06, 2005, 09:16:41 pm
Lincoln will be CU's toughest opp. at the IND post-season tourney, which is in Santa Cruz this year.

If you mean Lincoln University of PA, ranked #23 in this week's d3hoops.com poll, they won't be at Santa Cruz.  The independent tournaments are regional, and Lincoln would be playing in one back east.  Chapman's opponents at Santa Cruz figure to include Colorado College and Nebraska Wesleyan.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 06, 2005, 10:29:53 pm
aww.... and here I was hoping that this post would say that you are now a cali resident like myself  :-\
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on December 06, 2005, 11:57:27 pm
Azusa Pacific 89
Oxy 71

Oxy cut the lead down to 5 points in the 2nd half, then the game was over as they wore the Tigers down.

APU 9-20 from 3 point range. 

We had no guard play.  Inside, Betty had 25, Phillips had 20.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 07, 2005, 01:23:01 am
The only thing that will hurt Chapman's Tourny hopes if you're right is that they play at least 7 games against teams that are almost guaranteed victories. Home/Aways with La Serria, UC Santa Cruz, and West Coast Baptist. A game against Cal Tech. Also if whittier and La Verne don't do well in sciac that will hurt their strength. When I see their schedule I think they need at least 23 wins to be a guaranteed bid come tourny time.  They might do it though, they've looked good so far

The number of overall wins Chapman (or any other team, for that matter) has will have no bearing whatsoever upon whether or not the Panthers get a ticket to the big dance. It's regional wins that matter, not overall wins. Also, keep in mind that Chapman is an independent, and thus a Pool B contender. As those of us who follow the D3 scene are well aware, the bar is set a lot lower to get a Pool B bid than it is for Pools A and C.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on December 07, 2005, 10:42:23 am
Westcoast----

Thanks for the update on the games. I think the scehdule looks good for the classic. And your right these games will make up for down time before the BIG FOOTbaLL game in pasadena. I know that i will be heading to the rock to work out and catch some good BBAll games. And your right, i hope that more people attend the games during the holidays. Thanks for the info.


 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on December 07, 2005, 11:48:24 am
David Collinge...Thanks for the in info on the independents tourneys.  That improves CU chances of making the dance.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on December 07, 2005, 06:18:19 pm
Quote
We had no guard play.  Inside, Betty had 25, Phillips had 20.

Oxy had no guard play because the frontcourt doesn't remember it has a backcourt.  How many times have you seen the big guys kick the ball back out?

Oxy's not going to kill you with the guard play. But Oxy won't win unless the guards get more of a chance.

The frontcourt is obviously Oxy's bread and better. It's just too bad they're not well-coached. Give this front court to Kat and they might even impress the non-west coast DIII fans.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on December 07, 2005, 09:11:14 pm
Brian Newhall is a fine coach, thank you very much.  Oxy is lucky to have him.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on December 07, 2005, 11:22:15 pm
Quote
Brian Newhall is a fine coach, thank you very much.  Oxy is lucky to have him.

We're going to have to disagree on that one. I think we could get validation for both views by taking a poll of former players and basketball fans alike.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on December 08, 2005, 12:41:52 am
Couldnt stay away long......but calling the only coach in SCIAC history to go 14-0 and go to the Elite 8 a bad coach will stir up everyone....including folks like myself who are not Oxy fans.  Newhall can coach, and gets the best from his players.  I am not going to read much into the statement from someone that ONLY played JV for Newhall or was it that you were the 15th man and he could only take 14 to Buena Vista for the Elite 8??
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on December 08, 2005, 10:29:36 am
To borrow from a different sport, Mike Ditka went 15-1 and won a Super Bowl . . . once. He's out of coaching now for a reason.

Your claim is that a one-time event in a conference that never had such an event is reason enough to crown him a good coach. Go ahead with your belief. I don't buy into it.

For me, what makes a good coach is running a solid program in which players leave having learned more about the game and having developed more skills than when they entered. Development shouldn't happen solely on self-study by the players. Also, coaches should be good game managers and understand their players. They should be good communicators and talk with the players.

Again, if you still insist Newhall is all that, I think you're not watching carefully.

I'll just assume that you haven't seen good programs before. So, I'll take your comments with a grain of salt. SCIAC devotees have such large chips on their shoulders, it's seems difficult for them to accept that one of their own might be flawed. You don't have to go out of state to look at good programs. Go to one of Kat's practices. You'll be enlightened what some good coaching and a good program looks like.

There. I've given an example from SCIAC. Hope that makes you feel better.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: fosheezie on December 08, 2005, 12:19:15 pm
Katsiaficas for Heisman :o
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on December 08, 2005, 01:00:57 pm
I would have to agree with sciacguru on this one.  Newhall might not be the best coach in league...but he has been with OXY for 18 years and 250 victories, that has got to stand for something.

 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on December 08, 2005, 01:29:22 pm
Quote
Newhall might not be the best coach in league...but he has been with OXY for 18 years and 250 victories, that has got to stand for something

Who have those victories been against? An average of a tad under 14 wins per season may be how you judge a coach. I'd add, though, that player development should also be in the mix.

However, let's stick with wins alone: CalTech (x2), Redlands (x2), Whittier (x2) are usually gimmes. That puts you at 6. Home wins against PP, La Verne, Cal Lu, and CMS puts you at 10. The biannual La Sierra bashing gives you 12, and add another 2 non-league games at gimmes gives you a total of 14.

If you're happy with such a record, fine. Most Non-SCIAC folks would view 18 years of this as mediocre at best. And mediocre in the SCIAC isn't something to hang your hat on.

But I'd advise you look at the players and how they develop. How much is attributable to Newhall? What coaching decisions has he made, what tactics has he used, what lineup changes, defensive changes has he made that have you that enthralled with him? I just don't get it.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on December 08, 2005, 02:11:00 pm
samiam, apparently you had some bad experinces with Newhall.  I can't comment to much on player development or any off-court coaching, but I will say the Song got a lot better over his career.  Also, I recall Newhall making some real good coaching moves.  For example, couple years ago OXY at CLU; Avedian had 23 points at half and CLU lead.  Newhall put Rebasso on Avedian in the second half; Z scored only 6 points and OXY went on to win by 3.

I also don't agree that Redlands and Whittier; or home games agianst PP, CMS, CLU are gimmmies.  I am not enthralled with Newhall's coaching; just think that he is a decent coach.  I would like to see you win at Buena Vista in March?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 08, 2005, 02:26:28 pm
If redlands is not a gimme this year, i hate to see the talent of the team they beat....
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on December 08, 2005, 02:45:36 pm
This Redlands could be called gimmies, but not every year.  OXY beat RU by 4, and lost to RU by 12 last year...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 08, 2005, 04:22:31 pm
i'll give you that castle.  i cant believe that redlands is this bad every year, and besides i have only seen them in one full game, and a half of another....
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on December 08, 2005, 05:57:16 pm
Good points, castle. Perhaps I was too adamant about Newhall. "Decent" may be a good term for him. I've definitely seen worse.

I think what's frustrating for me as a basketball fan (not an Oxy fan) is watching the potential of the frontcourt. These guys are quite good. I think some "slightly-better-than-decent" coaching would do wonders. I think they would wind up in Buena Vista in 2006.

I might also have been too harsh about Whittier . . . well, maybe in some years. However, I do disagree with most here about Redlands. While they are not at the CalTech level, you can't run that type of offense without playing solid defense. They've been 5-9, 6-8, and 5-9 in SCIAC play the last three seasons. If you lose to them, it's probably because you have problems making layups. And this year? Talk about coaching disasters: if you don't have the personnel for your program, maybe you should change the program or style. That's more philosophical rather than cut and dry, I know. But sheesh. A program predicated on the quick 3-pointer without any 3-point shooters? Yikes.

Sorry for causing any ill-will on the board. I'll try to be more positive next time.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 08, 2005, 06:21:28 pm
I think what's frustrating for me as a basketball fan (not an Oxy fan) is watching the potential of the frontcourt. These guys are quite good. I think some "slightly-better-than-decent" coaching would do wonders. I think they would wind up in Buena Vista in 2006.

It's not likely that Buena Vista will be hosting a sectional this season. The Beavers graduated their top six scorers from last season; the two leading scorers on this year's team (which is 1-3 at this early juncture) are freshmen, Andre Wagner and Brian Fogleman. The Beavers are a strong enough program that the cliche "reload, not rebuild" is an apt one for them. Still, my guess is that it's far more likely that, in the event a SCIAC team manages to get past Puget Sound (the presumptive NWC rep) in the opening weekend, it'll have to go to the Twin Cities (St. Thomas) or Waverly, IA (Wartburg) for the westernmost sectional.

Sorry for causing any ill-will on the board. I'll try to be more positive next time.

Aw, c'mon. I was enjoying not being the villain on this board for a change.  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on December 08, 2005, 06:24:44 pm
Quote
Aw, c'mon. I was enjoying not being the villain on this board for a change.

You can keep the role. The perks aren't worth the trouble.

I imagine I'll be villainous again once I see more ball in January. Then I'll be contrite, then villainous, then contrite.

I should probably see a therapist.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on December 08, 2005, 07:30:59 pm
CMS has a big weekend up in the Northwest.

CMS at George Fox (5-1) on Friday.  CMS at Pacific on Saturday - Lowery has Pacific at 4-2 (they went 5-20 last year).  SCIAC can help SCIAC with a win or two.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 08, 2005, 08:37:22 pm
Sorry for causing any ill-will on the board. I'll try to be more positive next time.
Aw, c'mon. I was enjoying not being the villain on this board for a change.  :D

As a Cal Tech fan, I feel pretty safe from being a villain  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on December 09, 2005, 02:54:47 pm
SamIAmHeadedtoTherapyBecuaseICantGetPas tBeingCutfromOxy'sJVTeam,

Bro, glad you recognize your problem.  Therapy may help.   Sometimes in life you have to let things go.  If you went to Oxy undoubtedly you can look forward to other things in your life. 

But leave Newhall alone.  The coaching staff at Oxy is top notch.  Hennacy & Hall have won pretty much everywhere they have gone, including Oxy.  Newhall is the captain of the ship and is a well-regarded coach.  As SCIAC fans we all owe that staff kudos for helping us all with an Elite 8 run, a great game against UNLV, beating CS Fullerton, competing well against Utah State and generally playing as good against non-conference opponents as anyone in the conference. 

Can't develop players?  You have to be kidding me.  Don't make me rattle off names.   Every SCIAC school has guys who come in and for one reason or another, don't make it in the programs.  Usually it is more mental than anything else.  Look at the cat from CMS who walked out on his team this year.  Newhall's problem has never been coaching or player development.  In both of those areas he is as good as anyone.  His problem is generally our conference's problem, tough to recruit good enough ballers to make real headway in the post-season.   Newhall over the years has ally has 1, maybe two studs, then a bunch of guys who they coach something out of - but are outmatched against their counterparts at real DIII powers.  If he could get 3 or 4 studs, like Kats usually does, and less bozos like you, then we would see something special at the Rock.  Similarly, if Kats could get 1 or 2 more studs on top of his usual 3 or 4, I think he could make a deep run.  He is certainly as good of a game coach as you'll find in DIII.



   
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on December 09, 2005, 03:00:42 pm
Quote

As a Cal Tech fan, I feel pretty safe from being a villain  :D

Shoot - I thought you'd pledged your allegiance to Cal Lu (we're young this year and could use the support  :) )

Big game for the Kingsmen tomorrow night vs. Westmont.  Final matchup vs. the evil empire from Montecito in Boston Garden West.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on December 09, 2005, 04:46:36 pm
scanidihoovian,

I wish I could be there for that one...definetly make a couple before the end of the season.  You might have "use the force" to take down the Warriors.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: digs on December 09, 2005, 05:05:14 pm
I have a theory (that I'm sure all of you and Greg Sagar will find holes in)... 

Most of the top D3 programs have a roster made up mainly of in-state (or neighboring state) players.  There are exceptions (Williams, etc.), but even at schools that have a national student body, the team's roster has a strong regional flavor (Lawrence, Wooster). 

In thinking about this I thought of a couple of problems for SCIAC schools.  1.  Even though many of these schools have a national student body it seems that the top kids going to D3 schools have a tendancy to stay local.  2.  When I lived in SoCal I do not remember HS basketball being a big thing.  I didn't go watch any games, but it seemed that volleyball, football, baseball, soccer and even track were a bigger deal.  I doubt many people from Illinois, Indiana, etc. would say there was a bigger HS sport than basketball--maybe football, but track? get real.   I am concluding that the tallent level in SoCal is not as deep as in the midwest and I assume, the east.  This means that the coaches in the SCIAC may have less D3 level kids in their most likely recruiting base.  This leads to less talent to go around and ultimately less talent on the court.

We all know that a good portion of how good a coach is (at least in number of wins and national success) relys on the ability of the athletes he has to coach.  Thus I am giving a huge out to all of the SCIAC teams and coaches and saying that if some of the coaches that are criticized on this site were to move to a different part of the country they might have completely different fortunes.

Ok this is just a theory and I realize that there are many arguements against it, but I thought I'd throw it out for everyone to ponder.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on December 09, 2005, 05:20:52 pm
Quote
The coaching staff at Oxy is top notch.

Everyone should be allowed one delusion in life, Whiner. If you want the above statement to be your delusion, so be it.

If you had the opportunity to go to college, I would suggest you go back and take that course in logic you must have missed. It might help you out in both life and here on the board.

If you already took such a class, go back and demand that they refund your tuition. You were not well served.

Case in point: I don't think Newhall's a good coach. The only scenario you can think of is that I'm a frustrated ex-player. Good lord, please don't tell me you do any work that requires high-level thinking.

The world is full of small people who think in binary terms: not this, must be that. Well, Binary Man, enjoy your limitations. But be prepared to be called out on your narrow, ignorant diatribes.

Again, it goes to show how petty the SCIAC is if one good season out of 18 demands I give respect to someone who takes decent players and underachives. Maybe that's the way you like coaches in Southern California. The rest of us demand a little more from our AAU and high school coaches, let alone someone who is supposed to be running a college program.

Getting back to your mindset--and I don't have finger puppets to explain it to you, so maybe you can understand if I speak in your either/or world view: Since you support Newhall, you must be one of his current players who got lots of playing time. Ergo, you think you got better under him and he taught you well. Gee, I must be right. I used Whiner's logic.

Get out of SCIAC once in while. Heck, come out east and we'll show you some eighth grade AAU teams that can beat anybody the SCIAC wants to send out.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 09, 2005, 05:28:37 pm
It's hard to prove your theory empirically, Digs -- there's a million other factors such as demographics, institutional support, etc., that need to be taken into consideration as well -- but there may actually be some truth to it. I've said in this room more than once that SoCal natives often have a difficult time understanding just how close basketball comes to being a religion in the midwest. It's not just the Hoosiers myth, either, although the basketball-crazed milieu in small towns that was at the heart of that movie is still very much a part of the landscape. In urban areas, the passion for hoops is just as strong, particularly in black communities. In suburban areas it's lessened only by comparison, not by degree.

It's this passionate devotion to the game that is at the heart of the midwest's dominance in D3 basketball. I grew up in the northeast, and I can tell you unequivocally that the devotion to the game is not as strong there as it is in the heartland.

If the resources are there, I don't think that SCIAC coaches would be hurt by attempting to recruit midwestern kids as well as the local ones they already pursue. The huge (and often decisive) advantage that SoCal schools have over their counterpart institutions up here in the tall corn is weather. Right now we're under about a foot of snow here in Chicago, and across the lake in MIAA country they're already digging themselves out of about three or so feet of the white stuff. On the other hand, I'm willing to bet that I could walk across the Whittier or Cal Lutheran campuses in a t-shirt and a pair of shorts right now. In fact, I just checked www.weather.com and discovered that it's 71 degrees and sunny in Los Angeles. Don't think for a moment that every 17-year-old kid in Wisconsin or Indiana or Iowa whose mother has ordered him outside to shovel the driveway isn't painfully aware of this sort of thing.

If I was a good high-school ballplayer in the midwest who had a yen to go away to school rather than go someplace local, I'd certainly give a thought to going someplace warm.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on December 09, 2005, 05:30:11 pm
Hey digs:

I like your thoughts. I think they might hold some validity. However, Los Angeles basketball--including AAU, summer leagues, and high school--has been growing in popularity for years. I've noticed this as a former resident and as a basketball fan away from the state for a years. I've watched some of these kids kick butt in national tourneys (these kids usually wind up in JCs or DI though).

If most people stay local (and I don't know that they do), the population base for SCIAC to draw from is huge. What is the LA area up now 9 - 10 million people? There are more colleges and universities in SoCal, so that would have to be taken into consideration too.

It could be that small towns have a higher percentage of kids who are more gifted and who stay locally, but that would have to be a whopping differential to be true.

All in all, like most things: I don't know. But it's a interesting theory. Thanks for the post.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on December 09, 2005, 05:33:30 pm
So Samiam


If you're back east, how do you have any personal knowledge about Newall, the Oxy program or the SCIAC other that what you read on the boards?  You seem awfully embittered toward Newhall for someone who has no first hand experience . . . or am I being binary? :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on December 09, 2005, 05:35:42 pm
And . . . as I posted on the football boards . . . Oxy loses a lot of its recruits to the UC system based on costs . . . good athletes who could contribute at D3 schools but decide to go to a big public university to save the ducats and who play intramurals rather than incur the cost of a residential small liberal arts college experience.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on December 09, 2005, 05:55:04 pm
Quote
You seem awfully embittered toward Newhall for someone who has no first hand experience . . . or am I being binary?

Not binary in the least. I don't have anything against Newhall. Someone posted something about the kids not being able to do something or pull out a win or something. I think I just responded that the frontcourt was fine; they just needed some adjustments and more coaching. It was a specific Oxy statement because coaches seem to get a free pass around here.

I'm not a fan of Oxy or anyone in the SCIAC. I love basketball though and have roots in SoCal. So I keep an eye on lots of schools.

If you like, I'd be happy to share my comments about Smith or Dow. Geez, you SCIAC guys really have the stereotypical short man's complex.

Again, apologies for ruffling feathers. I thought I was just stating something that was obvious . . . which is about all I'm capable of stating. I'm not that smart. And if I know someone's not a great coach, you can be sure most everyone else already knows it.

I'll go back to lurking now. Enjoy the season. I hope it goes well for all the schools and fans.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on December 09, 2005, 06:00:18 pm
SamIAmAJVPlayerWhoWasBetterThanThe3Guys atMyPositionThatNewhallPlayedAheadofMe,

Lots of folks like you carry hefty loads on their backs for years about missed opportunities.  Life ain't about blame bro.  Leaders learn how to accept personal responsibility.  There was a reason you never started; you weren't as good as the guys ahead of you.  And we can see from your posts that mentally you are soft.  It wasn't the coaches fault that you weren't as good as the other guys.  

I could go into detail about several guys in any given year who the staff at Oxy made better.  I'd rather not, however, because nobody on the board here really cares.  The people on this thread are fairly knowledgeable and don't deal with JV personnel issues.    

If you want to hate on Newhall, get a ticket, fly back, and tell the coaches to let you get a run against the JV team.  I'll make sure it is video-taped then I'll put it on a blog where folks here can download it and see the truth for themselves.  



Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 09, 2005, 06:13:52 pm
The geographic scope of the basketball team and that of the student body in general are unrelated concepts, at least among the decent hoops programs.  The latter is only relevant to the former if students "go out" for basketball, which really isn't the case at any school I have any knowledge of.  The admissions department, with their relatively vast web of alumni and other contacts, recruit nationally or even internationally.  The basketball coaches tend to recruit close to home, places where the assistant in charge of recruiting can get to for a Friday night game.  Those kids who do come from far away to play for a program like Wooster or Lawrence tend to recruit themselves; that is, the take the initiative to contact the coach, send game films, etc.  Or at least that is my impression.

I certainly think there must be plenty of talent in the LA Basin to fill out the rosters of all the universities, colleges, and JUCOs around here.  SoCal high school basketball may not be the be-all end-all that it is in Indiana and (to a lesser extent) Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, etc. (football-first states), but I doubt that there's a significant talent gap (if there is any at all) between these states and the Golden State.

I realize that doesn't answer your question, and maybe even tends to support the SCIAC-coaches-are-suspect arguments of samiam (who, BTW, lost his only karma point for his smart-alecky post).  I reserve judgment on the coaching out here until I have seen some of it firsthand.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on December 09, 2005, 06:17:17 pm
Wait a sec. I lost a karma point? Shoot. How many do I need before I get a free pizza?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on December 09, 2005, 06:38:17 pm
Whiner, I can't respond to your latest post because I don't think they'll take credit on my karma account.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on December 09, 2005, 06:51:50 pm
Thoughts?

if you're trying to say that the high school basketball talent pool in southern california is weak, i really don't know what to tell you.  that's absurd man
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on December 09, 2005, 07:38:53 pm
Schools like Pomona, Claremont & Oxy pull most of their student bodies nationally anyway so even if So Cal had a small pool of talent (which it definitely doesn't - note that when Carthage won the national championship their stud was from the OC), then they still should be able to pull some kids from elsewhere.  Pomona always has - as has Claremont.  Not really Oxy or anyone else - although Redlands used to have good success pulling out of AZ.  I think it was DJ who correctly pointed out a few years ago, however, that in So Cal the SCIAC schools have many other regional competitors (lots of NAIA & DII teams, in addition to mid-tier DI programs).   

But at the end of the day I think it comes down to closing skills, effort, creativity & dollars.  Pomona should really always have the best talent because it is the best school.  If they are able to get someone in, the close is less difficult for them because the school is so great.  For every 5 targeted guys that Kats is able to get in to Pomona, I would be surprised if he can't get commits from a majority of them.  The same goes to a slightly lesser degree with Claremont.  Everyone else has a tough, tough sell.  Big $ for degrees at lower ranked schools. 

But I'll be that folks from other regions will point to similar issues elsewhere.  It is the classic liberal arts issue.  Amherst, Williams, Wooster, Puget Sound - all have nonetheless found ways to consistently bring in plenty of horses.         

 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 09, 2005, 08:10:33 pm
note that when Carthage won the national championship their stud was from the OC) 

 ???

I don't think that's ever happened, at least not in D3.  I'm not sure who you are thinking of.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on December 09, 2005, 09:16:06 pm
My bad - I was thinking about Gibbs from Otterbein.  Superstud from Cali. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 09, 2005, 09:44:18 pm
Quote

As a Cal Tech fan, I feel pretty safe from being a villain  :D

Shoot - I thought you'd pledged your allegiance to Cal Lu (we're young this year and could use the support  :) )

Big game for the Kingsmen tomorrow night vs. Westmont.  Final matchup vs. the evil empire from Montecito in Boston Garden West.

Lol... it is still early. I'm sure my allegiences can be bought.  :D

Thoughts?

if you're trying to say that the high school basketball talent pool in Southern California is weak, i really don't know what to tell you. that's absurd man

Yeah, I doubt that seriously. Jon Steven, probably the most talented player Wheaton has had in my time following hoops, was from Yorba Linda.

In fact, I just checked www.weather.com and discovered that it's 71 degrees and sunny in Los Angeles. Don't think for a moment that every 17-year-old kid in Wisconsin or Indiana or Iowa whose mother has ordered him outside to shovel the driveway isn't painfully aware of this sort of thing.

If I was a good high-school ballplayer in the midwest who had a yen to go away to school rather than go someplace local, I'd certainly give a thought to going someplace warm.

Yeah, the weather is pretty nice here. You could always comes visit me Greg.  :D ;)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 10, 2005, 12:27:48 pm
My bad - I was thinking about Gibbs from Otterbein.  Superstud from Cali. 

Gibbs was from Columbus, OH.

SoCal high school basketball may not be the be-all end-all that it is in Indiana and (to a lesser extent) Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, etc. (football-first states), but I doubt that there's a significant talent gap (if there is any at all) between these states and the Golden State.

DC, Illinois is very much a basketball-first state, not a football-first state. And that's an across-the-board (urban, suburban, rural) reality. It's true of Iowa and Wisconsin as well.

I don't know if there is a talent gap or not between SoCal and the midwest in terms of prep basketball. I tend to doubt it. But I would not be at all surprised if the average skill level is higher in the midwest, where the "gym rat" phenomenon is a way of life and the lack of outdoor recreational possiblities for one-third of the year tends to give kids tunnel vision with regard to the sport.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on December 11, 2005, 01:56:28 pm
I saw #1 ranked Illinois Weslyan play yesterday and they abosulutely dominated Wash U (St. Louis).  They are big, fast, and can shoot the lights out.  Their point guard made a couple of passes that were unreal.  It was an 8 point game at the half, but IWU dominated the first 5 mins of the 2nd half and the game was over.  They sent wave after wave...

If I'm not mistaken, this is the same Wash U team that beat Pomona and Clarmeont a few weeks ago by 10 points, or so...

As hard as this is for me to admit, having lived in the midwest, the east coast and SoCal, I can say now that the talent gap between the top teams here in the midwest (especially if IWU is any indication) is huge. 

When IWU took the court for warmups, it was evident that they would beat any SCIAC team by at least 20+ points.  Oh, if we could get some of these midwest studs for a visit to SoCal...

A side note...There must have been close to 350 IWU supporters who made the trip.  It was impossible to tell that it was a Wash U home game, save the logo on the court.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on December 11, 2005, 04:43:13 pm
When they took the court for warm-ups?....yeah ok, and you're Jerry West. What's your thinking, oh my look at how that 6'4" player made a fluid left handed lay-up and now he hit 2 catch and shoot 3's in a row. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're wrong about them beating any team by 20+...I'd say more but I haven't watched them play. You probably didn't see the Wash U game's here though either. Wash U was lucky to get 2 W's, both games could have gone either way. CMS actually misses a freethrow to win with about 10 seconds left.

What I do know is: Oxy played Azusa within 20, PP's played UCSD tight, and that the quality of play for most teams changes dramatically between Thanksgiving and Christmas so comparing a team playing in December to a team playing in November is pretty much a waste of time if the team's any good.

Maybe you'll get to see the games between OXY, PP and Amherst those will be a much better indication of where teams are.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 11, 2005, 05:01:35 pm
When they took the court for warm-ups?....yeah ok, and you're Jerry West.

Hmmm...Jerry West.  Born and raised in West Virginia.  More evidence of a talent gap?  :D

IWU is hardly representative of the quality of player at the better midwestern D3 programs.  Messrs. Dauskas, Amelianovich, and company are by all accounts special players who could be playing for some lower-echelon D1 programs.  It's not that any one of them is the best thing since sliced bread so much as it is that there's so many of them together at one time.  They are the exception.  The general case is that a top-tier midwestern team will have a very good player at post or wing, another at point, and a solid, well-coached supporting cast.  And frankly that describes the "Oxy Salem Pavers" of a few years ago; Finn Rebasso was as good a player at the D3 level as I have ever seen.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2005, 05:34:18 pm
The only thing that will hurt Chapman's Tourny hopes if you're right is that they play at least 7 games against teams that are almost guaranteed victories. Home/Aways with La Serria, UC Santa Cruz, and West Coast Baptist. A game against Cal Tech. Also if whittier and La Verne don't do well in sciac that will hurt their strength. When I see their schedule I think they need at least 23 wins to be a guaranteed bid come tourny time.  They might do it though, they've looked good so far

The number of overall wins Chapman (or any other team, for that matter) has will have no bearing whatsoever upon whether or not the Panthers get a ticket to the big dance. It's regional wins that matter, not overall wins. Also, keep in mind that Chapman is an independent, and thus a Pool B contender. As those of us who follow the D3 scene are well aware, the bar is set a lot lower to get a Pool B bid than it is for Pools A and C.

Greg, the Pool B bar is lower than Pools A and C, but so far, I see Maryville and Lincoln as strong contenders for the first 2 of the 4 Pool B bids.

The NIIC is back in Pool B this year, but the conference seems to be weaker than in the last few years.   An inconsistent Bethany is trying to make some noise.

Chapman has 12 in-region games.  I can easily see them going 10-2 in the West Region (a possible loss to George Fox or an off-night vs. someone else.)  The critical factor for Chapman will be getting some lucky breaks on the QOWI numbers of their opponents, like lots of teams falling 10-10 (a 12-13 QOW point win) instead of 9-11 (a 10-11 QOW win) or a Chapman opponent eking out a 12-6 in-region record (14-15 QOW point win) instead of 11-7 (a 12-13 QOW point win).

The UC-Santa Cruz wins will pull their QOWI down.  I wonder if Chapman might not need 2 more in-region wins from a "D3Independents" post-season tournament to boost the winning percentage.

As for the Playoffs, I can see Southern California as being one of the 3 team brackets.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on December 11, 2005, 06:05:29 pm
bball fan2,

I may have been exagerrating a bit, but it was clear during warmups...from the sheer size, strength and speed aspect...that they were a superior team...I would just say that I was impressed.  December, January, or March, this team was pretty damn good.

I am in no way downing the SCIAC.  Anyone on this board knows where I stand...I'm just saying that "if" IWU played any of our teams...it wouldn't be that pretty.



Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 11, 2005, 06:53:46 pm
bball fan2,

I may have been exagerrating a bit, but it was clear during warmups...from the sheer size, strength and speed aspect...that they were a superior team...I would just say that I was impressed.  December, January, or March, this team was pretty damn good.

I am in no way downing the SCIAC.  Anyone on this board knows where I stand...I'm just saying that "if" IWU played any of our teams...it wouldn't be that pretty.





No one should take that as a 'shot' at the SCIAC.  The IWU team IS special this year (while it is WAY too early to be thinking such thoughts, I admit that I've been wondering how they rank among the all-time d3 teams)!  As David Collinge noted, while no player is a top-notch all-timer (though Adam Dauksas DID outplay Dee Brown [last year's Big Ten POY] in their exhibition game), the combination of Dauksas, Amelianovich, the Jones twins, the Freeman twins, etc., all at the same time is AMAZING. 

Basically, NO one comes out of the CCIW without a loss, but I stated (before the season) that IWU had a 10% chance of running the table (including the national tourney) - I've now upgraded this to 25%.  Yesterday they apparently felt that WashU was uncomfortably close at -9 (shortly after half-time) - they promptly went on a 21-0 run!

Yes, whether or not these guys can run the table (or could beat all SCIAC teams by 20+), they are NOT to be confused with usual good teams in the Midwest (or anywhere).
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 11, 2005, 07:47:09 pm
IWU has 2 players who would start at Illinois State, the Division 1 team a mile down the street and member of the Missouri Valley Conference.  Coaches at ISU have told me that 6-3 All-American point-guard Adam Dauksas and 6-6 All-American wing Keelan Amelianovich would start for the Redbirds without question.  This duo would start for a lot of mid-major D1 teams, as ISU is.  6-7 junior post player Zach Freeman (17.3 ppg, 8.0 rpg) is probably the most talented of the 3 and could play for plenty of D1's as well (had a full-ride to D1 Murray State actually).

The 2005-06 IWU squad is a special team...maybe the most talented IWU squad I have seen in 16 years around the program.  And in that stretch IWU has won 8 CCIW titles, made 3 trips to Salem, and won one national title (1997).  We will see how it plays out and if the talent leads to a trip to the Final Four.  (The 1994-95, 1995-96, and 1996-97 teams were right there talent-wise.)

I agree that one should not gauge the caliber of midwest play by watching IWU...this Titan team is a couple notches above other good teams in the region.  I'd caution someone the same way when discussing any legit top 5 team - in other words, it wouldn't be fair to use Wooster or Wittenberg either.   IWU's combination of size and athleticism (both were really on display yesterday at Wash U) is something you just don't see much in Division III.  It has been a treat to watch this group play.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 11, 2005, 07:53:59 pm
As for the Playoffs, I can see Southern California as being one of the 3 team brackets.

The special Thursday/Saturday three-team brackets seem to be designed with the west coast and your Texan compatriots in mind, Ralph.

Nice breakdown of the Pool B situation vis-a-vis Chapman. I hope you're going to be tracking this in the Bumblin' B's room again -- I get the feeling that the people who follow those teams really aren't on top of the nuances of the QOWI system.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: 1992 on December 11, 2005, 09:01:30 pm
Tough weekend for Claremont.  Didn't do the SCIAC much good for them to go up to the Northwest and drop two.

Lowery seems to have Pacific improving, all the time he spent under Kats couldn't have hurt.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: digs on December 12, 2005, 10:14:36 am
Thoughts?

if you're trying to say that the high school basketball talent pool in southern california is weak, i really don't know what to tell you. that's absurd man

In my original statement I said " This means that coaches in the SCIAC may have less D3 level kids in their most likely recruiting base."   

I was not talking about high end talent.  I was also not talking about the talented kid who either can't go to a D3 school financially or academically or the talented kid that would rather go to USC because of the big school draw.  I was talking about the kid with talent that would more than likely seriously consider a D3 school.

I feel that there are more of these kids in the midwest.  We have abundant talent in the cities (Chicago, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, etc.), but also have a lot of small town kids with the skills to make an impact at d3.  These small town kids are also the ones that have been highlighted in the local paper for years for their athletic abilities, so they have grown to like the "fame" that athletics bring them.  They can continue this fame if they go to college x, y or z rather than going to the Big state schools and not playing. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on December 12, 2005, 10:45:36 am
^^i can see that...but it's such a pointless arugment/analysis to make, because there's absolutely no way of proving which area has more Johnny Jumpshooters than the other.

I think each school in the SCIAC has its own recruiting issues, but for the two traditional powers, CMS and PP, it's really a combination of high academic standards and low emphasis by the administrations.  Pomona is literally one of the hardest schools in the country to get in to...and potential athletes don't get much, if any, advantage over the other applicants.  Theoretically, they should have an advantage by using Pitzer's lower standards (although, of course, those standards are still decent and higher than the rest of SCIAC, save CMS and Cal Tech...and probably equal to Oxy).  However, Pitzer's administration couldn't care less about athletics...they're too busy fleecing their students for every nickel and dime they can get, in a lame attempt to improve their now outdated facilities.  That said, it's obvious that the best chance to improve PP's recruiting is to utilize the unique situation the two schools are in.  These days, PP only gets one or two kids from Pitzer even playing on the team...and with the notable exception of Martin a few years ago and now Knowles, they're rarely impact players.  (**i've since been reminded that some of PP's best players over the years...Quinett, Hewitt, Lange, Duque, and the SCIAC version of JKidd, none other than Pacific's current coach, Lowery...all were Pitzer guys.  But I'm referring to the last 6 years or so.**)


Anyway...word is that Crumley, the shooter from CMS, decided to quit the team on their NW road trip.  Although he never had as much of an impact as expected, he was still one of the best shooters in the league and a big player for them.  With Saunders, the poor man's Matt Geiger, quitting a few weeks ago, and Zazulia last year...what's goin on over at CMS?  I'm waiting for Turner to try to transfer back to PP  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 12:38:27 pm
Why West Coast D3 is sub-par to the midwest.....

I grew up in the riverside area, played college ball in the midwest, coached h.s. ball in the midwest and here is my take......

The biggest reason for SoCal D3's not competing at the same level of midwestern D3's is directly attributed to the Number of NAIA and Division 2 programs in SoCal.  I played at Monmouth College in Monmouth, Il a very small town in west central illinois.  From MC there was only one NAIA school within an hours drive, Bradley and Illinois State were the only two D1's within 2 hours drive and there were less than 5 (estimate b/c i can not remember exactly) JuCo's within a two hours drive.  in Contrast there are three Major D3 conferences in a 2-3 hour radius that all have nationally ranked teams playing in them CCIW, MWC, SLIAC and the NIIA is also close enough for rural kids to know about.  In illinois specifically one you get out of chicago there is literally nothing else in the state.  And chicago doesnt even have a major college basketball program, unless you want to count Depaul.  In illinois if you are not good enough to play at U of IL. then you go to Southeastern CC or you go D3. 

In Socal if you cant go to USC or UCLA, then you go to one of the hundreds of Juco, which are all heavily nationally recruited b/c of the talent level.  if you dont want to go the juco route then you go to one of the seemingly hundreds of NAIA schools or D2's in the area.  The point is that the "basketball scholarship" or the myth of the full ride is what drives Socal kids away from D3's and towards "the money."  Anyone who thinks that there is more "talent" in any sport, Especially bball, in a state outside of Cali is crazy.  Kids in the midwest go to D3 schools b/c that is the extent of their options.  kids in Cali, specifically socal, do not go to D3's b/c someone is always willing to offer kids the obligatory "bball scholarship."

NAIA institutions are the deathkill to Socal D3's......
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on December 12, 2005, 05:59:00 pm
Thanks for the input OFS, good stuff.  DJ, always has good insight.  But I'm left after reading your email with a big, "I hear you, but find a way."  Coach K is a great, great coach.  Pomona is a great school.  Throw in the unique 5 college campuses, a freak or two at Scripps and the outstanding facilities and Pomona should be able to compete with Amherst, Williams & the  smartest Wooster players.  Heck, Pomona offers a compelling opporunity to the kid getting losely recruited by a low Ivy.   Pull some strings and have Baldwin drive over from the beach to talk to Kats and his staff.  "Hey guys, it takes brass balls to sell the SCIAC.  I could go out tonight, with the leads you have, and bring in 2 all-americans."

 CMS offers a similar compelling opportunity. 

Oxy is screwed because its academic standards are higher than its stagnant academic standing supports.  Redlands, well, tough to sell the IE.  CLU, might turn some things around with the new facility.  Not sure how much the admin will play ball at CLU but they have an opportunity.  Whittier, nice facility but expensive and why go there if you can go somewhere else?  LV, the tent? 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on December 12, 2005, 11:51:51 pm
Also, So Cal has no D3 state schools that I know of other than UCSC, who seems to not care about being bad, this means every kid that goes to a SCIAC school needs 40G or to get a good aid package. That said, it's that's the same with NESCAC schools like Williams, or Amherst, but they also get slots for players which PP doesn't. 

That said I know of kids that have turned down scholarships to come to school in the SCIAC, and kids that have turned down Pomona to go play in the NAIA, which if you figure look at estimated future income is probably an awful decision regarless of expense. 

My belief is that if the top 3 SCIAC schools we'll say OXY, PP, and Cal lu historicly played a season in the mid-west that the better compitition would lead to better play, and they'd be competitive.

Get Cal tech out of the conference, bring in Chapman, UCSD should go D3 again, and come over as well (they're a HORRIBLE D2 team), Redlands should be put on league probation until they decide to play real basketball and be competitive.

The schools should hire ONE person to be incharge of press release, it's not hard they could have a budget to hire an intern at each school if they needed help with a few write ups. Oh and all SCIAC schools should have slots, it makes a big difference if every year you can get 2 kids with an 1100 (old sat system i know) and a 3.2gpa.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 13, 2005, 12:24:04 am
Also, So Cal has no D3 state schools that I know of other than UCSC, who seems to not care about being bad, this means every kid that goes to a SCIAC school needs 40G or to get a good aid package. That said, it's that's the same with NESCAC schools like Williams, or Amherst, but they also get slots for players which PP doesn't. 

bbf - you raise some interesting points.  However, the cost issue is a challenge for the majority of D3 privates schools, so I don't see that as a unique factor to the SCIAC.  Plus, with the depth of talent in CA I find it hard to believe that there aren't quality student athletes for your programs to recruit. 

Just as an aside, two of the top five scorers in the NWC have California ties.  Heu-Weller went to CMS and Curtiss is from Santa Barbara.  And as the PP program well knows, two seasons ago it was a CA-native back court of four players that pushed the Loggers over the Sagehens - Cross, Glynn, Curtiss, and Mendoza - in the NCAA's.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 13, 2005, 12:59:11 am
My belief is that if the top 3 SCIAC schools we'll say OXY, PP, and Cal lu historicly played a season in the mid-west that the better compitition would lead to better play, and they'd be competitive.

Competitive where? The midwest is a vast area as far as D3 is concerned, covering two whole regions (Midwest and Great Lakes) and parts of two others (West and South). Even if we're just talking about the Midwest Region proper, there's a huge spectrum there in terms of competitive levels -- ranging all the way from the CCIW (which by common acclamation is the second-best league in D3 after the WIAC in terms of overall strength) down to the SLIAC (which is probably one of the weakest leagues in D3). That's a huge range just within one region.

The biggest reason for SoCal D3's not competing at the same level of midwestern D3's is directly attributed to the Number of NAIA and Division 2 programs in SoCal. I played at Monmouth College in Monmouth, Il a very small town in west central illinois. From MC there was only one NAIA school within an hours drive, Bradley and Illinois State were the only two D1's within 2 hours drive and there were less than 5 (estimate b/c i can not remember exactly) JuCo's within a two hours drive. in Contrast there are three Major D3 conferences in a 2-3 hour radius that all have nationally ranked teams playing in them CCIW, MWC, SLIAC and the NIIA is also close enough for rural kids to know about. In illinois specifically one you get out of chicago there is literally nothing else in the state. And chicago doesnt even have a major college basketball program, unless you want to count Depaul. In illinois if you are not good enough to play at U of IL. then you go to Southeastern CC or you go D3.

In Socal if you cant go to USC or UCLA, then you go to one of the hundreds of Juco, which are all heavily nationally recruited b/c of the talent level. if you dont want to go the juco route then you go to one of the seemingly hundreds of NAIA schools or D2's in the area. The point is that the "basketball scholarship" or the myth of the full ride is what drives Socal kids away from D3's and towards "the money." Anyone who thinks that there is more "talent" in any sport, Especially bball, in a state outside of Cali is crazy. Kids in the midwest go to D3 schools b/c that is the extent of their options. kids in Cali, specifically socal, do not go to D3's b/c someone is always willing to offer kids the obligatory "bball scholarship."

NAIA institutions are the deathkill to Socal D3's......

Sorry, OFS, but there's a lot of misinformation in your post. First, keep in mind that it's dicey to compare the number of institutions of higher learning (at whatever levels) between two areas of the country without taking demographics into consideration. Southern California -- or, to be more precise, Santa Barbara, Ventura, Los Angeles, Orange, and San Diego counties, and the western fringes of San Bernardino and Riverside counties -- is one of the most densely-populated regions of the United States. The midwest, which covers a much broader area, is by contrast very sparsely populated. The area that you speak of in particular around Monmouth College, western Illinois, is sparsely-populated farm country (and what little population is there is shrinking). Right there your argument takes an apples-and-oranges turn for the worse.

Next, you're underestimating the number of jucos in the area. There are 26 NJCAA Region IV (northern Illinois) junior colleges, and 19 NJCAA Region XXIV (central and southern Illinois) junior colleges, and except for the ones in Chicago proper all of them recruit the entire state. Just take a look at the rosters of Sauk Valley, Blackhawk, Rock Valley, Kankakee, etc.

Chicago doesn't have only one D1 school. It has four within the city limits alone (DePaul, Loyola, Illinois-Chicago, and Chicago State), and two more within the greater metro area (Northwestern and Northern Illinois, although DeKalb is a bit of a stretch in terms of delineating the outer rim of the metro area). Schools from all across the country recruit in the Chicagoland area, because it's such a hotbed of prep hoops -- and that includes such other Illinois D1s as the University of Illinois, Eastern Illinois, Illinois State, Western Illinois, Bradley, and Southern Illinois.

Illinois has plenty of other four-year scholarship programs as well. Perhaps the best D2 conference in the entire country, the Great Lakes Valley Conference, has three members within the Land of Lincoln: Lewis, SIU-Edwardsville, and Quincy. There are two NAIA Division 1 conferences that have members within the state, the Chicagoland Collegiate Athletic Conference (Olivet Nazarene, Robert Morris - Chicago, St. Xavier, Illinois Tech, and St. Francis) and the American Midwest Conference (McKendree and Illinois-Springfield), and an NAIA Division 2 conference (Judson, Trinity International, and Trinity Christian). There's also an up-and-coming USCAA program that grants basketball scholies: Robert Morris - Springfield. Usually, although not always, the NCAA D2 and NAIA D1 programs beat out the local D3 schools for recruits -- which stands to reason, since they can give athletic scholarships and the D3 schools can't.

If you're talking about the greater midwest, then your comments about NAIA competition are even more off the mark. The midwest has no fewer than ten NAIA-2 leagues, as well as parts of two others. Southern California has one. The midwest has two NAIA-1 leagues. Southern California has one. Also, there are four full NCAA D2 leagues within the midwest, and the greater part of a fifth. Southern California has about a half-dozen state schools that are D2 members.

Such statements as, "In Illinois, if you're not good enough to play at the University of Illinois, then you play at Southeastern CC or you go D3," and, "Kids in the midwest go to D3 schools because that is the extent of their options" are just plain wrong.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on December 13, 2005, 04:43:06 am
OFS......I am right there with you on your statements.  The NAIA and D2 schools drastically hurt the SCIAC schools.  Look at Westmont, they just took it to CLU, but they and Concordia, barely got by the 2nd or 3rd best team in CCIW with Carthage.  From what I understand, AZUSA is legit, but I dont think any other team in the GSAC would finish 1st or 2nd in the CCIW.....this year.  But what it boils down to is the administration.  Yes, UPS has and is having success with SoCal players....but what you need to remember is that the NWC was once a national power conference in athletics as NAIA.  And that has carried over while being D3.  You can thank Linfield for that.  So the administration has continued to make athletics a priority or an important aspect of student life at their particular institutions.  Look at all of UPS teams (except football)....they all are successful because their administration allows it to be....and by administrtation....I mean financial aid and admissions by direct order of the president.  Those two offices in the SCIAC couldnt tell the difference between a football and a basketball and wouldnt care to either.  Basically, if an institution's president attends athletic events for enjoyment rather than to host alumni, then there is a pretty good chance the team's will be successful.  So next time you are at a SCIAC event.....any athletic event....look for the president.  I betcha UPS' and Illinois Wesleyan's president are around.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 13, 2005, 05:26:45 am
Look at Westmont, they just took it to CLU, but they and Concordia, barely got by the 2nd or 3rd best team in CCIW with Carthage.

In the interest of accuracy, I should point out that Carthage actually split with Concordia-Irvine. The Californians won the first contest by three points, while their Wisconsin-based counterparts took the rematch three days later by fourteen points. Westmont beat Carthage, 72-69 in overtime, in between the two contests between Carthage and Concordia-Irvine.

The early consensus is that Carthage is a middle-of-the-pack squad in the CCIW this season and not the second- or third-best team, although this is based upon early and thoroughly inconclusive evidence. They certainly haven't been playing like world-beaters since they returned from Hawaii.

From what I understand, AZUSA is legit, but I dont think any other team in the GSAC would finish 1st or 2nd in the CCIW.....this year.

That's very hard to say with any degree of accuracy or verifiability. Carthage is a bit of a mess right now, but nobody who follows the CCIW denies their talent. And yet they certainly did not dominate either Westmont or Concordia-Irvine. And I'd say that Azusa Pacific is a lot more than merely "legit"; they're currently ranked fourth in the nation in NAIA-1. The evidence provided by Carthage does sort of support your statement, but what I'm saying is that that evidence is meager -- especially in light of the fact that the CCIW has yet to play a single conference game.

Yes, UPS has and is having success with SoCal players....but what you need to remember is that the NWC was once a national power conference in athletics as NAIA. And that has carried over while being D3. You can thank Linfield for that.

... except that the NWC has not established itself as a national power conference in D3 basketball, which is the only sport germane to this discussion.

The NWC has been a D3 league for six years now. Not counting the games played between NWC members, the league has mustered a 6-6 record in the D3 tournament over those six years, with an overall point differential of +11. They have no Final Four appearances, and one Elite Eight appearance, in those six seasons. But take away their wins over the SCIAC's representatives, and the NWC's D3 tourney record falls to 3-6, with an overall point differential of -44. The six teams that beat the NWC reps? UW-Stevens Point in 2000, Chicago in 2001, Carthage in 2002, Gustavus Adolphus in 2003, UW-Stevens Point in both 2004 and 2005 -- all midwestern teams. The only team from the tall corn to succumb to an NWC team thus far is UW-Oshkosh, which was beaten by Lewis & Clark, 79-71, in the 2002 Midwest/West sectional semis.

The NWC has a long way to go to establish itself as a national power conference in D3 basketball.

You guys are certainly much more familiar than am I with the whys and wherefores of the SCIAC's inability to secure institutional support for its basketball teams. I have to say that I've enjoyed reading your hypotheses. I've learned a lot about the SCIAC institutions (mostly regarding their administrations' indifference to athletics) through this room.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on December 13, 2005, 11:02:18 am
Quote from: Random Poster
The sky is blue.

Quote from: Gregory Sager
Your post reeks of misinformation.  In the interest of accuracy, I should point out that the sky itself is not blue.  In actuality, light moving through the atmosphere combines with molecules in the air to scatter blue light back to your eyes.  Keep in mind that this same Blue Light program has traditionally performed very poorly in the NESCAC, only once winning the conference (the vaunted 1973 team led by Johnny Jumpshooter, a native of Ventura, CA by the way...a talent SCIACGuru no doubt remembers  ;)).  This year, the early consensus is that Blue Light is again performing poorly.  Nobody denies their talent, but the evidence provided in snowbird games played below the 37th parallel, on odd numbered Wednesdays, with AM start times, during Republican presidencies, indicates they have not been as impressive as you SCIAC posters may otherwise assume.  Perhaps your own lack of success in the tournament (may I remind you that the SCIAC is the D3 equivalent of the Big West conference at the D1 level...we scoff at your putrid existence) has clouded your ability to objectively look at the facts.  Such flippant statements as "the sky is blue" do not accurately tell the full story and diminish the hours of hard work Pat and myself have spent to operate this website.  I'm glad I can bombard every nether region of this board with longwinded posts to shine light on the historical and statistical framework that you may have overlooked. 

Oh...and Fosheezie... :-*
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on December 13, 2005, 01:46:55 pm
Oxy's past president, and current interim president, have been big sports fans and attend the games.  That does not mean that Oxy, or should, admit students who don't make the grade and set them up for failure.  It's damn hard to graduate from Oxy and it would be a disservice to the young man or woman who was admitted due to athletic talent if s/he didn't have the academic chops to succeed as well.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 14, 2005, 05:22:23 am
ROTFL, DJ Hyphen!  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on December 14, 2005, 07:02:31 pm
 :D just messin with you man
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 14, 2005, 09:35:12 pm
Yeah, I know. And it was a hilarious sendup. Well played, sir!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on December 14, 2005, 10:39:32 pm
Hyphen - That was hilarious  ;D

Sager - you're a good sport  :)

Now if I only knew what ROTFL meant I'd be in good shape  ???
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 14, 2005, 11:19:44 pm
Rolling On The Floor Laughing.

The 'T' is optional.

An alternative is ROFLMAO; I'll leave you to ponder the MAO part.  :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 15, 2005, 08:26:43 am
:D :D :D :D

And here I was, just thinking about the very fact that it would be so easy to make up a quote by someone, but someone beat me to the joke! :'(
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 15, 2005, 08:28:41 am
The SCIAC has done quite poorly in the preseason this year.

Actually Greg, it's the non-conference season... these games count, especially now that there are the extra Pool C bids.  ::) :P :D

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 11:54:18 am
My belief is that if the top 3 SCIAC schools we'll say OXY, PP, and Cal lu historicly played a season in the mid-west that the better compitition would lead to better play, and they'd be competitive.

Competitive where? The midwest is a vast area as far as D3 is concerned, covering two whole regions (Midwest and Great Lakes) and parts of two others (West and South). Even if we're just talking about the Midwest Region proper, there's a huge spectrum there in terms of competitive levels -- ranging all the way from the CCIW (which by common acclamation is the second-best league in D3 after the WIAC in terms of overall strength) down to the SLIAC (which is probably one of the weakest leagues in D3). That's a huge range just within one region.

The biggest reason for SoCal D3's not competing at the same level of midwestern D3's is directly attributed to the Number of NAIA and Division 2 programs in SoCal. I played at Monmouth College in Monmouth, Il a very small town in west central illinois. From MC there was only one NAIA school within an hours drive, Bradley and Illinois State were the only two D1's within 2 hours drive and there were less than 5 (estimate b/c i can not remember exactly) JuCo's within a two hours drive. in Contrast there are three Major D3 conferences in a 2-3 hour radius that all have nationally ranked teams playing in them CCIW, MWC, SLIAC and the NIIA is also close enough for rural kids to know about. In illinois specifically one you get out of chicago there is literally nothing else in the state. And chicago doesnt even have a major college basketball program, unless you want to count Depaul. In illinois if you are not good enough to play at U of IL. then you go to Southeastern CC or you go D3.

In Socal if you cant go to USC or UCLA, then you go to one of the hundreds of Juco, which are all heavily nationally recruited b/c of the talent level. if you dont want to go the juco route then you go to one of the seemingly hundreds of NAIA schools or D2's in the area. The point is that the "basketball scholarship" or the myth of the full ride is what drives Socal kids away from D3's and towards "the money." Anyone who thinks that there is more "talent" in any sport, Especially bball, in a state outside of Cali is crazy. Kids in the midwest go to D3 schools b/c that is the extent of their options. kids in Cali, specifically socal, do not go to D3's b/c someone is always willing to offer kids the obligatory "bball scholarship."

NAIA institutions are the deathkill to Socal D3's......

Sorry, OFS, but there's a lot of misinformation in your post. First, keep in mind that it's dicey to compare the number of institutions of higher learning (at whatever levels) between two areas of the country without taking demographics into consideration. Southern California -- or, to be more precise, Santa Barbara, Ventura, Los Angeles, Orange, and San Diego counties, and the western fringes of San Bernardino and Riverside counties -- is one of the most densely-populated regions of the United States. The midwest, which covers a much broader area, is by contrast very sparsely populated. The area that you speak of in particular around Monmouth College, western Illinois, is sparsely-populated farm country (and what little population is there is shrinking). Right there your argument takes an apples-and-oranges turn for the worse.

Next, you're underestimating the number of jucos in the area. There are 26 NJCAA Region IV (northern Illinois) junior colleges, and 19 NJCAA Region XXIV (central and southern Illinois) junior colleges, and except for the ones in Chicago proper all of them recruit the entire state. Just take a look at the rosters of Sauk Valley, Blackhawk, Rock Valley, Kankakee, etc.

Chicago doesn't have only one D1 school. It has four within the city limits alone (DePaul, Loyola, Illinois-Chicago, and Chicago State), and two more within the greater metro area (Northwestern and Northern Illinois, although DeKalb is a bit of a stretch in terms of delineating the outer rim of the metro area). Schools from all across the country recruit in the Chicagoland area, because it's such a hotbed of prep hoops -- and that includes such other Illinois D1s as the University of Illinois, Eastern Illinois, Illinois State, Western Illinois, Bradley, and Southern Illinois.

Illinois has plenty of other four-year scholarship programs as well. Perhaps the best D2 conference in the entire country, the Great Lakes Valley Conference, has three members within the Land of Lincoln: Lewis, SIU-Edwardsville, and Quincy. There are two NAIA Division 1 conferences that have members within the state, the Chicagoland Collegiate Athletic Conference (Olivet Nazarene, Robert Morris - Chicago, St. Xavier, Illinois Tech, and St. Francis) and the American Midwest Conference (McKendree and Illinois-Springfield), and an NAIA Division 2 conference (Judson, Trinity International, and Trinity Christian). There's also an up-and-coming USCAA program that grants basketball scholies: Robert Morris - Springfield. Usually, although not always, the NCAA D2 and NAIA D1 programs beat out the local D3 schools for recruits -- which stands to reason, since they can give athletic scholarships and the D3 schools can't.

If you're talking about the greater midwest, then your comments about NAIA competition are even more off the mark. The midwest has no fewer than ten NAIA-2 leagues, as well as parts of two others. Southern California has one. The midwest has two NAIA-1 leagues. Southern California has one. Also, there are four full NCAA D2 leagues within the midwest, and the greater part of a fifth. Southern California has about a half-dozen state schools that are D2 members.

Such statements as, "In Illinois, if you're not good enough to play at the University of Illinois, then you play at Southeastern CC or you go D3," and, "Kids in the midwest go to D3 schools because that is the extent of their options" are just plain wrong.

Greg you cant start an argument by yourself.  I specifically noted my location in west central illinois and in socal, specifically riverside county area b/c that is what i am familiar with.  You my friend are way off in your argumentation.

First there are no major college basketball programs in chicago.  That is a fact unless you think depaul is a major basketball program.  I did not say chicago doesnt have any D1 programs.  hell riverside has a d1 team, what does that mean, absolutely nothing!!!

Next you talk about Juco's in Northern Illinois (only reputable town in area is Rockford) Central (peoria, bloomington and springfield- all towns smaller than riverside) and southern illinois (carbondale is 6-8 hr drive from chicago and the closest metropolitan area is 5 hrs. away in Missouri (stl))  so when i say there is nothing in the state outside of chicago, i was once again CORRECT.  Also in comparing college options do i need to talk about the (what i thought was obvious) difference between juco's and midwestern d3's academically?  Once a kid realizes he isnt major D1 potential, generally he looks for a good academic choice.  you talk about the D2 conference in illinois.  ha, Lewis is usually ok, but Edwardsville and Quincy are both seen as no better than the D3 schools in the area.  When i was at MC my junior year we were up 5 with two minutes left at Edwardsville.  we finished .500 in D3 competition that year.  point being that d2 conference may be good overall but two of the three illinois teams for lack of vocabulary generally suck...  Good D3 very or very bad D2.  hmmm...

So, no i wasnt talking about the greater midwest, only illinois.  i talked specifically about west central illinois b/c that is what i know, and please do not confuse what i am saying as opinion.  I only talk about facts, disagree if you like but look at my tag and you will see what i believe....

you guys are great ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 15, 2005, 12:47:58 pm
[...](carbondale is 6-8 hr drive from chicago and the closest metropolitan area is 5 hrs. away in Missouri (stl))[...] 

By horse and buggy, maybe.  Carbondale is less than 100 miles from St. Louis.  If you start by backtracking to I-57, you can get there in 2 hours. 

A misstatement of this magnitude casts doubt on the veracity of the rest of your "facts."
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 01:07:17 pm
ill give you 3 hours  ;)  i may have mis estimated a bit.  unless you go ; to siuc there is not much reason to go to carbondale, thus i never have.....
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 16, 2005, 04:06:45 am
Greg you cant start an argument by yourself. I specifically noted my location in west central illinois and in socal, specifically riverside county area b/c that is what i am familiar with. You my friend are way off in your argumentation.

"In Illinois, if you are not good enough to play at the University of Illinois, then you go to Southeastern CC or you go D3."

"Kids in the midwest go to D3 schools because that is the extent of their options."

Do those words look familiar to you? They should ... they're yours. You posted them in this room on Monday. And they're absurd. They leave the Land of Exaggeration in the rear-view mirror, and run a red light straight into downtown Wrongville.

Yes, you specifically noted your ties to Monmouth and to the Inland Empire. And, having done that, you proceeded to make generalizations about the entire state of Illinois, and, beyond that, the entire frickin' midwest. I'm not way off in my argumentation. I'm rebutting your arguments with points about the exact same geographic areas that you addressed in your first post.

First there are no major college basketball programs in chicago. That is a fact unless you think depaul is a major basketball program. I did not say chicago doesnt have any D1 programs. hell riverside has a d1 team, what does that mean, absolutely nothing!!!

Uh, excuse me ... DePaul is not a "major basketball program"? This will come as quite a shock to the other schools of the Big East, which welcomed the Blue Demons into their league this season. Unless you don't think that the Big East is "major basketball", either. And if 6-1 Loyola isn't a "major basketball program", either, then Purdue has a lot of explaining to do as to why they lost to a minor basketball program the other day. Unless Purdue and its Big Ten brethren aren't "major", either. And then there's Illinois-Chicago, which has beaten Georgia Tech (ACC), Mississippi (SEC), and Northwestern (Big Ten), all within the last three weeks. Unless those leagues aren't "major", either. Wait ... we've already covered the fact that the Big Ten isn't "major". Sorry.  ;D

Your arbitrary judgments about "major"ness aside, your statement, "what does that mean, absolutely nothing!" begs the original question in context. In your original post you dismissed Chicagoland's various D1 programs out of hand right before your sentence about the U of I, Southeastern CC, and D3. Clearly, then, you're strongly implying that DePaul, Loyola, UIC, Northwestern, etc., are at the back of the line when it comes to recruits. And you could not be more wrong about that. If one of those schools wants a player and one of Illinois' D3 schools wants that same player, the D1 team gets him. Plain and simple. In other words, where D3 is concerned, the existence of those schools means a lot more than "absolutely nothing."

Next you talk about Juco's in Northern Illinois (only reputable town in area is Rockford) Central (peoria, bloomington and springfield- all towns smaller than riverside) and southern illinois (carbondale is 6-8 hr drive from chicago and the closest metropolitan area is 5 hrs. away in Missouri (stl)) so when i say there is nothing in the state outside of chicago, i was once again CORRECT.

First of all, have you ever been to Rockford? There's nothing reputable about the town at all.  ;)

Second, what part of the words, "There are 26 NJCAA Region IV (northern Illinois) junior colleges, and 19 NJCAA Region XXIV (central and southern Illinois) junior colleges" did you not understand? Shall I type them out in big letters? Underlined? Would you like me to babelfish them into another language, or act them out with finger puppets? Let's try again. The state of Illinois has 45 jucos that have basketball teams. I don't care if most of those schools are out in the middle of cornfields somewhere. Their distance to large towns is completely irrelevant. They exist, they have basketball teams, and they draw basketball players from all across the state. Look at the rosters posted on their websites if you don't believe me. F'rinstance, North Park lost out on two recruits this year that chose rural Illinois jucos; one went to Spoon River CC and the other went to Sauk Valley CC. Both schools are located way out in farm country. And both of those recruits are city kids; in fact, they were Chicago Public League players. Conversely, NPU picked up a kid from Hamilton, IL (a hamlet in west central Illinois, right on the Mississippi River) who played for a year at John Wood CC in Quincy.

Location and distance are irrelevant. These jucos offer scholies to basketball players, and kids from all over the state use them.

Also in comparing college options do i need to talk about the (what i thought was obvious) difference between juco's and midwestern d3's academically? Once a kid realizes he isnt major D1 potential, generally he looks for a good academic choice. you talk about the D2 conference in illinois. ha, Lewis is usually ok, but Edwardsville and Quincy are both seen as no better than the D3 schools in the area. When i was at MC my junior year we were up 5 with two minutes left at Edwardsville. we finished .500 in D3 competition that year. point being that d2 conference may be good overall but two of the three illinois teams for lack of vocabulary generally suck... Good D3 very or very bad D2. hmmm...

First mistake: "Once a kid realizes he isn't major D1 potential, generally he looks for a good academic choice." Wrong. Some players put strong academics at the top of their list, but most will go wherever they can get a ride at a four-year school, or sustain their potential to get a ride at a four-year school. And that's where the jucos come in. They showcase players for four-year schools who're looking to add experienced recruits; most of the four-year schools in question offer scholies (D1, D2, NAIA). Yes, some juco players are there to get their grades up. But your sweeping generalization dismisses out of hand a large percentage of juco players, who happen to be decent students who are merely looking for a second chance at getting offered a ride at a four-year institution.

Second mistake: "Lewis is usually OK, but Edwardsville and Quincy are both seen as no better than any of the D3 schools in the area." Bzzt. Wrong again. Both teams made the D2 national tournament last season. SIU-Edwardsville is 9-1 this season. The Cougars went 23-9 last season and finished 15-5 in the GLVC, which as I said is the toughest league in all of D2. The SIUE team you played was an indie, and it was a pretty rock-bottom D2 indie at that. Notice the past tense in that last sentence. Since the Cougars hired coach Marty Simmons and joined the GLVC in '02 they've drastically improved their program. You need to update your knowledge, OFS. And Quincy? Currently 5-2, following on the heels of an 18-11, 14-6 GLVC season in '04-'05. Again, your take on them is badly off-target.

Can a D3 team win out for the services of a player who is also being wooed by one of these Illinois D2s? Yes. Will it happen most of the time? Absolutely not.

So, no i wasnt talking about the greater midwest, only illinois. i talked specifically about west central illinois b/c that is what i know,

Once more, with feeling:

In illinois if you are not good enough to play at U of IL. then you go to Southeastern CC or you go D3.

Kids in the midwest go to D3 schools b/c that is the extent of their options.

And, lest anyone think I'm aping Diehardfan's trick of altering quotes, check out for yourself that OFS wrote these words last Monday, timestamped 12:38:27 EDT.

and please do not confuse what i am saying as opinion. I only talk about facts, disagree if you like but look at my tag and you will see what i believe....

I am not confusing what you're saying as opinion, because it isn't opinion. It's simply wrong. It's an erroneous statement of facts.

As for your tag, I admire your self-confidence. What a shame that it's so badly misplaced in this instance.  :D

ill give you 3 hours  ;)  i may have mis estimated a bit.  unless you go ; to siuc there is not much reason to go to carbondale, thus i never have.....

It's two hours and 16 minutes via I-57 and I-64, according to MapQuest. Dunno, though, maybe D1 uses Microsoft Streets & Trips, just like D3. Is that where you got your three-hour estimate, OFS?  :D

Now look what you've made me do. I've gone on and on with one of this room's longest posts of the year, and I've regurgitated enough trivia to get my butt lined up in DJ Hyphen's crosshairs again. Curse you, OFS!  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on December 16, 2005, 05:28:04 am
I'll be Ok, I'm sorry I'll be honest, I don't really care about the sciac vs the nation debate; it will never be resolved on the board and posts about it are completely subjective unless the teams have played that season.

However, I do want to note that for the first time in years we don't have a redlands poster popping off about how they're going to win sciac. And I just want to say Redlands should change it up and play basketball. Currently, Redlands is awful there system at this point teams would rather play cal tech then them because against cal tech you're still playing basketball, not some glorified lay up drill, against dirty players, who take cheap shots, flop, and cry to the referees all game about how fast they make a 5 second call, or what's a charge.  I can't wait to see if they still claim to have the best fans in sciac when they're losing.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: digs on December 16, 2005, 10:01:33 am
  From MC there was only one NAIA school within an hours drive.

It has been a while but how far is it from Monmouth to the Quad Cities?  St Ambrose.  Or to Mount Pleasant IA, Iowa Wesleyan.  These have got to be close.

I am probably wrong on these 2... For those of you who are unfamiliar with the area the only thing within a hours distance of the great city of Monmouth is a store called Farm King. :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: digs on December 16, 2005, 10:12:06 am
I almost forgot... great post DJ.  One of the all time greatest!!!

Greg--imitation is the highest form of flattery.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 16, 2005, 12:01:21 pm
St. Ambrose in Davenport is the closest, it will take you a lil over an hour normally, and since the area probably has about a foot of snow on the ground by now maybe more....

Greg i am sorry that you didnt understand what i meant about major d1 basketball programs in chicago.  Depaul is the best team of that group, and they have not had anything to do with any national bball conversation since mark aguirre (sp).  Irvine beat stanford, does that mean they are a big time d1 program?

I am happy to hear quincy and edwardsville are doing well this and last year, good for them.  i will reiterate that i have mainly been speaking from my personal experience and i have been washed up for a long time.  Good to know someone can rebound, better than i could.  siue was last in the national tourney in 89 and quincy seems to have never been any good (i cant find a winning record on their site);D

As far as you preaching about juco rosters.  You almost helped me prove my point.  Kids who cant go to U of I (metaphor for major D1 in the midwest) Generally will look toward Southeastern CC (metaphor for good illinois jucos) or D3 (Illinois has three very good D3 conferences)

You are correct in saying kids normally follow the money.  I am just trying to explain to you that If a kid knows he isnt big time, most will look to a program where they will be able to play on a good team and be great.  D3 schools from the CCIW and MWC always get kids like this, that is why they become dominant.  A good D3 program doesnt have D3 talented kids, they have D1 caliber (talent) kids that are too short, too skinny, or too nice.  But also too smart (grades, career goals past basketball) to waste time at a Juco.

In California the next best thing to D3's is NAIA (going back to how all this got started, before you threw your hissy fit...)  In my estimation the best D3 programs in America Would easily rival the very best Scholarship NAIA schools.  if the playing level was the same, but one school can offer you money and the other cant, you will follow the money.  In Cali, NAIA's play on the National Level regularly.  In the midwest (specifically)Illinois, D3's play on the National Level regularly. 

My point, In Socal there are many more NAIA or Juco options (that will compete nationally) than there are D3's.  In the midwest there are many more D3's that will compete on the National Level than there will be NAIA or Juco.  But yes you always have your few exceptions.  Feel free to take 3 hrs. cutting and pasting and pointing out the very few....

Really how long did your last post take? ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on December 16, 2005, 05:50:24 pm
Quote
Do those words look familiar to you? They should ... they're yours. You posted them in this room on Monday. And they're absurd. They leave the Land of Exaggeration in the rear-view mirror, and run a red light straight into downtown Wrongville.

I thought we were still trying to figure out how to get to Carbondale.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 16, 2005, 06:08:11 pm
"If one of those schools wants a player and one of Illinois' D3 schools wants that same player, the D1 team gets him. Plain and simple."


Greg, sometimes D3 programs land student-athletes who get recruited by D1 schools.  D3hoops.com 1st Team All-American  Adam Dauksas, for example, was recruited heavily by Illinois-Chicago.  Dauksas went to a UIC home game where there were about 1900 people in the stands of an 8000 seat arena.  I remember Adam talking about that visit as a freshman at IWU when we interviewed him on WJBC.  He said something to the effect of, "Neither team had anyone who could make a 15 foot jumpshot and neither team really ran any offense...it was just one-on-one ball."  (I think that UIC team won the Horizon League and went to the tourney actually.)   Then Adam visited IWU where the 2600 seat Shirk Center was jam packed with about 3000 for a CCIW game, the band was playing, the student section was crazy, etc..  

When Adam commited to IWU, I wrote the following for IWUhoops.com...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/recruiting2002a.html#dauksas

Some quotes from that piece...

* "It is just a great school, with a great basketball environment.  I feel honored to have a chance to carry on the tradition that is already established."  

* "I was lucky to get a lot of D1 looks, but in the end I just felt more comfortable as a person at Illinois Wesleyan," said Dauksas.  "The level of play in the CCIW is as good as in many small Division 1 conferences, in my opinion."

Trost echoed those thoughts.  "Many of the really talented CCIW players can play at a higher level...sometimes Division 3 is just a better fit though. Adam is going to get a great education at Illinois Wesleyan, and he is going to be a vital part of what we're doing from day one. At some of those D1's he'd probably be asked to sit for two years. Adam wants to play basketball."  


* "I want to win CCIW Championships, and have a chance to win a national championship," he said.  "I consider myself a winner, and I am really looking forward to my career at Illinois Wesleyan."


For pure basketball reasons and many non-basketball reasons, Adam Dauksas decided to attend IWU over D1's like Illinois-Chicago, Chicago State, and Colgate and the D2 full-rides he had, like St. Joe's (Indiana).  I'm with you on 99% of what you are saying here, but not on that statement as-is.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 16, 2005, 07:02:17 pm
Quote
Do those words look familiar to you? They should ... they're yours. You posted them in this room on Monday. And they're absurd. They leave the Land of Exaggeration in the rear-view mirror, and run a red light straight into downtown Wrongville.

I thought we were still trying to figure out how to get to Carbondale.

La la la-la la la la la la
Do you know the way to Carbondale?
I've been away so long
I ended up on Wrongville Trail.

Do you know the way to Carbondale?
I'm going back to find
hoops of some kind in Carbondale.

Illinois' a great big cornfield
No place there to play D1 or 2.
Takes a week, maybe two, to get to St. Lou.
Weeks turn into years, how quick they pass.
And all the stars that never were
are driving Deeres for ADM.

I've got lots of friends in Carbondale.
La la la-la la la la la la
There'll be lots of hoops in Carbondale.
La la la-la la la la la la
Do you know the way to Carbondale?
La la la-la la la la la la

 :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 16, 2005, 07:39:19 pm
David.. you have too much time on your hands... you seriously need to go to a basketball game with me, and eat my six spice oatmeal rasin cookies... oh wait... you're already going to do that!  :D

Gooo Cal Tech!  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 17, 2005, 03:46:32 pm
Bob, you could've spared us the commercial for your alma mater. I knew that Dauksas was an exception. I could name other exceptions as well who've played for other CCIW schools. It's beside the point. The issue at hand is that OFS has dismissed out of hand the Chicagoland D1 programs with regard to recruiting Illinois players, and he was completely wrong in doing so.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 17, 2005, 03:58:52 pm
How would I know you realized Dauksas and other past CCIW players were exceptions based on your statement, "If one of those schools wants a player and one of Illinois' D3 schools wants that same player, the D1 team gets him. Plain and simple"??
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 17, 2005, 04:42:20 pm
Greg i am sorry that you didnt understand what i meant about major d1 basketball programs in chicago.  Depaul is the best team of that group, and they have not had anything to do with any national bball conversation since mark aguirre (sp).  Irvine beat stanford, does that mean they are a big time d1 program?

You still don't get it. In fact, you've completely changed the thread of your argument. In your original post you dismissed the other D1 programs in the state as a part of your general argument that, in Illinois, it's the Illini, Southeastern CC, and then D3. This has nothing to do with how far those D1 programs have made it in the D1 tournament. That's an irrelevant matter. This discussion is about recruiting in the state of Illinois, and whether or not there is any competition with D3 programs in the state for good high school players. Stay on point, please.

Oh, and DePaul is a Big East team. Northwestern is a Big Ten team. I don't care if neither has been deep into March Madness since the Aguirre era; those teams are "big time" by any stretch of the imagination, simply by dint of the leagues in which they participate. End of story.


I am happy to hear quincy and edwardsville are doing well this and last year, good for them.  i will reiterate that i have mainly been speaking from my personal experience and i have been washed up for a long time.  Good to know someone can rebound, better than i could.  siue was last in the national tourney in 89 and quincy seems to have never been any good (i cant find a winning record on their site);D

Doesn't matter. This is a present-tense discussion, and now you're falling back on past tense. You derided SIUE and Quincy in the present tense in your original post. You were wrong.

As far as you preaching about juco rosters.  You almost helped me prove my point.  Kids who cant go to U of I (metaphor for major D1 in the midwest) Generally will look toward Southeastern CC (metaphor for good illinois jucos) or D3 (Illinois has three very good D3 conferences)

Oh, so now Southeastern CC is a metaphor? That's rich! "Hey, Mom and Dad, I got offered a free ride from Southeastern Community College! I'm gonna play for the Fighting Metaphors!" :D

Illinois kids who can't go to the U of I will look in a hundred different places: Other Illinois D1s, Illinois D2s, Illinois NAIA programs, out-of-state D1s, out-of-state D2s, out-of-state NAIA programs, jucos of all shapes and sizes and locations, even out-of-state D3s (Jason Kalsow, anyone?), as well as Illinois D3s. I don't care if Southeastern CC has now magically become a "metaphor for good Illinois jucos", because your reductionistic argument is as wrong now as it was when you first posted it.

Oh, and Illinois doesn't have three good D3 conferences. It has one excellent conference (the CCIW), one pretty good conference (the MWC, and it needs to be said that most of the good MWC programs -- Lawrence, Ripon, and Carroll -- are in Wisconsin), one fair-to-poor conference (the NIIC, which is now in its final year of existence), and one truly awful conference (the SLIAC, which it shares with Missouri).

You are correct in saying kids normally follow the money.  I am just trying to explain to you that If a kid knows he isnt big time, most will look to a program where they will be able to play on a good team and be great.  D3 schools from the CCIW and MWC always get kids like this, that is why they become dominant.  A good D3 program doesnt have D3 talented kids, they have D1 caliber (talent) kids that are too short, too skinny, or too nice.  But also too smart (grades, career goals past basketball) to waste time at a Juco.

You could've stated that "play on a good team and be great" platitude without throwing in erroneous specifics about college basketball in the Prairie State, and I probably would've left it alone. A few points, though:

* The MWC is a pretty good D3 conference. It's not a dominant one. And, again, the overwhelming balance of power in that league is north of the Lombardi-Halas Line.

* "D1 caliber (talent) kids that are too short, too skinny, or too nice" is an oxymoron. Recruiting takes everything into consideration: Height, build, skills, temperament, etc. D1 coaches will sometimes take a player who is deficient in one area, because they feel they can augment that deficiency via redshirting or whatever. But if you've got top-notch skills for, say, the center position but you're 6'6", 220 instead of 6'9", 245, you're not a D1 player. You're a D3 player.

* Lots of good D3 players started out at jucos. I could introduce you to a few of them who have national championship rings on their fingers.

In California the next best thing to D3's is NAIA (going back to how all this got started, before you threw your hissy fit...)  In my estimation the best D3 programs in America Would easily rival the very best Scholarship NAIA schools.  if the playing level was the same, but one school can offer you money and the other cant, you will follow the money.  In Cali, NAIA's play on the National Level regularly.  In the midwest (specifically)Illinois, D3's play on the National Level regularly.

No hissy fit here. I don't hiss, and I don't have a cat or inflatable tires to act as a substitute. ;)

The best D3 programs would easily rival the best scholarship NAIA programs if the playing level was the same ... well, yeah, and if we all were born with wheels instead of legs we could all just ride to the grocery store without using cars.  :D

Sure, in SoCal NAIA-1s are nationally competitive, and in the midwest D3s are nationally competitive. But are you familiar with the term, "Correlation does not imply causation"?

My point, In Socal there are many more NAIA or Juco options (that will compete nationally) than there are D3's.  In the midwest there are many more D3's that will compete on the National Level than there will be NAIA or Juco.  But yes you always have your few exceptions.  Feel free to take 3 hrs. cutting and pasting and pointing out the very few....

You've completely missed the point if you think that I was simply trying to come up with some exceptions to your original statement. The point is that your argument in toto -- in Illinois it's U of I, then Southeastern CC, and then D3, and that kids in the midwest go D3 because that's the extent of their options -- was completely wrong. What I was offering wasn't "exceptions"; it was a mountain of evidence proving that your theses were off-base.

Again, with regard to Cali NAIA-1s and midwestern D3s, correlation does not equal causation.

As for cutting-and-pasting, how else was I to deal with your argument? Put your quote all in one block and then rebut it all in one block? That's much harder to follow. Besides, how often on Posting Up do I have the chance to practice "fisking" somebody?  ;D

Really how long did your last post take? ;D

About an hour, all told. This one was much briefer in terms of the amount of time it took to construct.

How would I know you realized Dauksas and other past CCIW players were exceptions based on your statement, "If one of those schools wants a player and one of Illinois' D3 schools wants that same player, the D1 team gets him. Plain and simple"??

You wouldn't. It was an overstatement on my part. I should've used the same with-very-few-exceptions caveat that I used for Illinois D2s when talking about non-Illini D1s in the state. That was my fault. I just didn't see the reason to post a chunk of the Illinois Wesleyan program guide while pointing it out.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on December 17, 2005, 05:08:15 pm
Quote
La la la-la la la la la la
Do you know the way to Carbondale?
I've been away so long
I ended up on Wrongville Trail.

Burt and Hal would be proud.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 17, 2005, 05:28:08 pm
Burt and Hal would be proud.

David must be keeping my kind of hours, because it looks as though he's had exposure to one too many late-night Dionne Warwick infomercials.

Still, it was a nice job, DC. You're quite ably filling that Weird Al Yankovic niche that Posting Up has had vacant for so long. This one ranks right up there with your flurry of rendered holiday carols from last year on CCIW Chat -- or was that two years ago?

I eagerly await your adaptation of some Leonard Cohen standard to musically address the do-Calvinites-whine fracas between Calvin and Hope fans on the MIAA board.  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 17, 2005, 06:30:06 pm
David must be keeping my kind of hours, because it looks as though he's had exposure to one too many late-night Dionne Warwick infomercials.

Hmmmm.  And here I thought your night-shift job was to police Posting Up.  I didn't know you also monitored late night TV.  Tough job, but somebody's gotta do it!  ;)  I'm looking for work, maybe you can send me Ron Swanson's number?   :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 18, 2005, 10:44:20 am
"I just didn't see the reason to post a chunk of the Illinois Wesleyan program guide while pointing it out."


I posted direct quotes from a player that had to do exactly with the topic at hand...recruiting, and specifically why players make the decisions they do. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2005, 06:55:59 pm
Does the Lombardi-Halas line run at the border or does it include the southern Wisconsin locales that tend to lean towards the Bears? (And before you dismiss that, I've seen it in person.)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on December 19, 2005, 02:32:29 pm
Oxy beat Chapman 65-60 on Saturday night, bringing the Tigers to a 6-1 record having their sole loss to top ranked NAIA Azusa Pacific.  Let's hope this bodes well for the Orange and Black.  The upcoming games against Whitworth (Jan. 2) and Amherst (Jan. 3) look even more exciting.

Go Oxy.

Io Triumphe!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on December 19, 2005, 04:23:46 pm
Tigers have a chance to put the SCIAC back  on the map against Whitworth & Amherst.  I would say that would make them an automatic Top 20 but realize that for any great victory by either Oxy or Pomona that weekend to actually mean something, somebody in the SCIAC would actually have to type up a game summary and shoot it to someone.   Seeing how we are at the end of December and the SCIAC Website is still stuck on '04-05, I'm not holding my breath.  Maybe Amherst or Whitworth will send their SIDs to the games and we can piggyback off their competence. 

PC, are there any worse conferences than the SCIAC from a sports information perspective?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 20, 2005, 05:37:00 am
Pat,

The Lombardi-Halas line isn't very specific because it has more to do with the State you work in rather than the State you reside in.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 20, 2005, 06:53:19 pm
I was looking at the Massey Statistical ratings just now and I thought I'd share with you guys, because it made me sad, I I thought maybe you could all be sad with me...

Top Ten DIII Conferences

44 Wisconsin IAC
45 Ill & Wisc
48 UAA
60 NESCAC       
64 IIAC
65 OAC
67 HCAC
69 MWC
72 MIAA
73 CAC

Bottom Ten

CCC
SCIAC
UMAC
CUNYC
NEAC
PrAC
NAC
PAC
GNAC
SLIAC

Out of 41 conferences... that makes us... 33rd. Sigh...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 20, 2005, 07:27:00 pm
I wonder how much of the SCIAC's rating is dragged down by the anchor that is CalTech? 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 20, 2005, 10:58:56 pm
Maybe Amherst or Whitworth will send their SIDs to the games and we can piggyback off their competence.

The Whitworth SID does a great job, and also happens to be the NWC lead sports information person.  If he is not at the games himself, I am confident that either the Whitworth site, http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Index.aspx  or the NWC site http://www.nwcsports.com/  will have stats and a game recap for the Oxy and PP games.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on December 21, 2005, 12:23:45 pm
I must agree with other posters that are excited about the upcoming holiday classic at Oxy. I know that the tigers will do well in these games. These games will be my first games to see the B-Ball team in action. So i do expect to see all those tall kids dunking on the shorter competition. I only hope that they can play defense though.



Sabertooth--will u be attending the games....
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on December 22, 2005, 04:13:39 pm
Btw----Happy holidays. Hope to see most of you guys at the upcoming Oxy Classic. It should be great times to watch these schools play.......Hope everyone stays safe
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: old_hooper on December 29, 2005, 10:18:23 pm
browneagle have you seen the roster for Amherst?  They may have the tallest roster that either PP or Qxy will see this year.  They are a very big DIII team.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on January 03, 2006, 01:23:25 pm
Big Game tonight: #4 Amherst at OXY.

Oxy's only loss is to Azusa...who is a top 5 NAIA team.  Meanwhile, Amherst has rolled to 8-0 with an average margin of victory of almost 25 points.  It is not a regional game, but it would a huge boost to the SCIAC if Oxy can keep it close, or maybe even pull the upset.  It will be a tall task for the Tigers, considering that 5 of Oxy's 8 wins have come against Pacific Union, La Sierra and West Coast Baptist; and Amherst just held PP to 42 points on 28% shooting.

Good luck Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 03, 2006, 06:08:38 pm
Big Game tonight: #4 Amherst at OXY. [...] It is not a regional game [...]

Wait a minute, let me check Streets & Trips to see if it's within the 200 mile limit...
Let's see...
Nope.  :)

But if the "regional while they're on semester break" proposal is enacted by the NCAA, holiday tournament games like this one will begin to "count," even if the schools are 2,922.5 miles apart, as these two are.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on January 04, 2006, 12:12:08 am
#4 Amherst 60
Oxy 61

2:41 left in the 2nd half.

GO TIGERS
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on January 04, 2006, 12:17:07 am
#4 Amherst 62
Oxy 67

1:30 left in 2nd half

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on January 04, 2006, 12:25:12 am
#4 Amherst 68
Oxy 73

FINAL.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 04, 2006, 01:54:42 am
(first posted in Top 25 room)
Great game at the Rock tonight.  Oxy took it to Amherst throughout the first half, as Amherst looked lost on offense the whole time, and at the other end had no answer for Sam Betty, Oxy's 6'7" junior wing with great instincts in the paint.  Oxy's sophomore point Gemayal McBride simply owned Amherst's point (soph. Andrew Olson), which helped keep the Lord Jeffs in an offensive funk for 20 minutes.  But Olson hit a big NBA 3-pointer with 0:01 in the half to reduce the Oxy lead from a disheartening 9 to a manageable 6.

In the second half, Amherst executed much better, and a couple of ticky-tack fouls on McBride forced him to spend a good part of the half on the bench.  Oxy had plenty of chances to put the game away, but kept missing free throws, and Amherst ground their way back to a tie.  That's when Oxy stepped up the defensive pressure, began to out-hustle the Jeffs, and started hitting free throws.  The game was still in doubt right up to the last two possessions, but Oxy's defense kept Amherst at bay and pulled out the victory.

This game might have come out differently on a neutral court, but I'm willing to say that the better team won tonight.  Certainly the best player on the floor, at least at the offensive end, wore Tiger white--that being Sam Betty.  As long as Amherst failed to deny the entry pass, he pretty much did whatever he wanted inside: drive left, drive right, pull up jumper, dish back out. 

As for Amherst, while they are a quality team who showed a lot of poise in their comeback, there is no way that they deserve the #1 vote they are getting.  Of the teams I have seen, IWU and Wooster are clearly better, and UW-Stout, St. Thomas, Puget Sound, and (obviously) Occidental are right in the mix with the Lord Jeffs.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 04, 2006, 03:55:10 am
First time on Posting Up... I've been on the football boards for a short time.

Collinge - Great post, that summed up the game.  Oxy pulled a couple of big wins this week vs. Whitworth and Amherst (a strong squad).  Sam Betty was unstoppable in the first half, but the Tigers went away from him in the second and questionable foul calls let Amherst back in the game.  Good perseverence from the team and a great win.

Tigers move to 9-1 and are looking strong.

Oxy opens conference play at La Verne on the 11th.

This game might have come out differently on a neutral court, but I'm willing to say that the better team won tonight.

I thought there was a great showing at the game for the Tigers, especially since the students are still enjoying there semester break.  Can't wait till the first home game once the rest of the Tigers are back at school!

Loving the D3 Hoops season already
Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: digs on January 04, 2006, 09:46:03 am
Great win for Oxy...

Redlands with a win over the CCIW too.  I guess they have more tallent than OFS led us to believe.  What's up????  Diehard?  Anyone?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Hoosier Titan on January 04, 2006, 10:00:46 am
Digs,
Wheaton, traditionally a CCIW power, is down this year due to graduation and a key player or two deciding not to play.  They haven't been picked to finish in the top half of the CCIW.  They will undoubtedly be back in the future.

Most expect this year's CCIW race to be between IWU, Augustana, Elmhurst, and North Central.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 04, 2006, 10:17:40 am
Great win for Oxy...

Redlands with a win over the CCIW too.  I guess they have more tallent than OFS led us to believe.  What's up????  Diehard?  Anyone?

Redlands won a home game vs. a team from chicago over christmas break that is picked to finish 6th in their conference.  Yea, my bad digs, i guess i have totally underrated Redlands..... ???
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 04, 2006, 10:19:19 am
nice win for Oxy...looks like they're the favorite in the league so far
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 04, 2006, 12:02:05 pm
Is there a season preview/outlook available on d3hoops?  I know there is one for d3football. 

Just wondering, I was interested in reading up on some of the teams around the conference as well as the national picture.

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on January 04, 2006, 01:51:19 pm
Congrats to OXY for getting the SCIAC some respect...now who was saying that Newhall can't coach???
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 04, 2006, 02:12:44 pm
Digs, Wheaton, traditionally a CCIW power, is down this year due to graduation and a key player or two deciding not to play.

Wheaton has 12 people on our roster right now. Only 11 played last night. That is a pretty short bench to play a team like Redlands. It was almost as much the fact that we didn't have enough bodies, as it was that all the bodies we have are soo young!

Only one guy on our team got significant minutes last year... significant being 19... we returned none of our starters. This is who we lost last year from our playoff team, in terms of minutes played... 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9 (one of the boys tied for ninth is currently injured). Just let that sink in for a moment.... yeah. I still love em though, and they will probably be better by the end of the season.

Jordan Kemper, the guy who scored 38 for Wheaton last night, in only 28 mins (foul trouble) has always been one of my favorite Wheaton players, but only played 5mins per game last year. Another of favorite current Wheaton players, is Johnnie Standard (whom I've been hearalding since his time in JV games!) and he was our second leading scorer till he got injured in the Benedictine game this year.

With two of our relatively experienced players either out or with significantly fewer minutes than normal, on top of all out losses last year, and the other playing an INSANE 39mins for this type of basketball (Tony is my hero!)...

I am hesitant to say all that, because I thought Redlands put in a great performace last night.... really hitting some huge treys at huge moments when I was just starting to feel like we had a comfortable lead. Hull and Pelo were insane from behind the arc. I really enjoyed watching the game, even though I am more of a "patient offense" sorta person. I was also glad to see that Redlands had decent fan support despite the fact that the campus was still on break. I'll definitely be back for more games this season.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on January 04, 2006, 02:23:26 pm
Quote
now who was saying that Newhall can't coach???

Uh . . . that'd be me. However (uh oh, here he goes again), just for clarity's sake, I don't believe I ever said that Newhall couldn't coach. I just said the players would benefit from better coaching. All I meant to say is that Oxy's front court is impressive and, from what I've seen, could have handled even the Aggies, had the coaching been more consistent.

Of course, maybe those players wouldn't even be at Oxy, were it not for Newhall. So, what do I know?

This was a great win for Oxy, and I think Newhall did a fine job this time.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on January 04, 2006, 04:15:12 pm
I question those who thought that Oxy was slowed by bad calls.  Oxy got a nice little hometown boost from this SCIAC crew as Amherst was out of fouls six minutes into the second half.  This means nothing except that it made me laugh, but Amherst coach Hixon turned to me at one point and asked if the ref had a son on the Oxy team.  Hixon does get credit for working the refs for the fourth fould on McBride, though.

That said, what a nice win for Oxy.  They frustrated a very game Amherst team and withstood a big rally.  It had the whiff of 2003 to it.  Pomona, though, looked pretty strong as Lloyd and W-B are back for, what, their 9th years each?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 04, 2006, 08:26:10 pm
I question those who thought that Oxy was slowed by bad calls. Oxy got a nice little hometown boost from this SCIAC crew as Amherst was out of fouls six minutes into the second half.

This is quite true; the foul calls in the second half were lopsided in Oxy's favor.  Any advantage gained was offset at least in part by the poor free throw shooting on the part of Oxy.  Amherst may have suffered from foul trouble, for all I know; I do believe that their #41, who was guarding Betty, was in foul trouble, but since he was not very effective anyway I don't see that as a problem.

Although most of the fouls were called on the Jeffs, the two cheap second-half fouls called on McBride had a huge impact on the game.  With him either on the bench or in the game but sagging off of the ball handler, Amherst was able to get into their offense with much more ease, and that was a big factor in their comeback. 

I never complain about officials, and I won't start now.  I appreciate what they do; in short, they make our game possible.  But last night was an example of how a foul disparity on paper may not have translated into an advantage/disadvantage situation.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 04, 2006, 11:24:52 pm
I feel like I was misunderstood, the game is never in the officials hands.  I felt a few of the calls, namely against McBride, were ticky-tacky.  Amherst mauled the Tigers under the boards, some call it hustle, I call it missed calls. 

Either way, great game for the Tigers, nothing was decided by the officiating.  Sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 05, 2006, 01:11:02 am
Is there a season preview/outlook available on d3hoops?  I know there is one for d3football. 

Just wondering, I was interested in reading up on some of the teams around the conference as well as the national picture.

Yep, we do previews on hoops too. We get a similar amount of SCIAC participation on both sites.

http://www.d3hoops.com/preview.php
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 05, 2006, 03:32:28 pm

Yep, we do previews on hoops too. We get a similar amount of SCIAC participation on both sites.

http://www.d3hoops.com/preview.php

Thanks Pat, I'm guessing that it is SCIAC SID's responsibility to provide D3 hoops with a preview (and that is why there isn't a preview for any SCIAC team except Redlands).
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 05, 2006, 04:36:38 pm
Alright all.  Back from the Southland after watching the Tiger Classic and the National Championship at the Rose Bowl.  Two nights of great games, glad I made the trip.  I have to admit that Amherst 20 point blow out over PP had me thinking about yet another blown opportunity in the SCIAC's quest to get out of the bottom tier of DIII hoops conferences.  Oxy's hard-fought W over a pretty good Whitworth team (before the tournament I thought they would be a lock for 2nd place in the NWC and be right there for a bid) gave me hope.  PP looked excellent against Whitworth.  Their D frustrated the strength of Whitworth, outside shooting.  Yet further proof that if you give Kats the oppornity to scout an opponent, nobody is better at taking away what teams are good at. 

Oxy's game against Amherst was just what I expected it to be, a winter game in So Cal where crowds are never factors and you get to see some great DIII ball.  Contrary to what folks have said here, nobody had any crowd advantage.  Amherst probably brought almost as many people as showed up for Oxy.  And throughout the game the loudest cheering was coming from both benches. 

But those who were there were treated to a great game.  Hats off to Oxy's coaching staff for their defensive adjustments.  The great shooting that we saw from Amherst against Pomona was negated.  They simply didn't get many open looks.  Oxy's 2 big men played like studs all night.  Rebounding well and running a clinic on catching the ball in the post and being able to score with a mid range J or  drive with either hand.  Betty should and will get All-America votes if he could eliminate his mental funks that prevent him from showing up every night.  The kid was hands down the best player on the floor.  Super solid play at the other positions by Oxy most of the night.  Oxy's kids believed from the minute that the ball went up that they could not only play, but beat this team.  The W wasn't a fluke.  What a great victory for Oxy and for the entire SCIAC. 

Now, having said all of that, I will try to bring everyone down to earth again.  PP is STILL the team to beat.   Don't let the Amherst game fool you.  Just as sure as they are to lose the first round game, they will win the 3 close games in the SCIAC that you need for a banner.  PP has back to back titles,four all conference guys in Lloyd, Hollo, Wexler-beron and Knowles.  But even if they didn't they have Kats, the King of the SCIAC.  CMS and Oxy are right there nose and nose for 2nd (see CMS road wins at pt loma and westmont).   

Oxy had a great, great win for us.  A great statement for our conference that possibly our 3rd best team can play better than the 4th ranked national team.  Oxy is absolutely fearless outside of the conference and has been for several years.  New mantra at Oxy should be "Anywhere, anytime - as long as it isn't a road game in the SCIAC."   


 


   
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 05, 2006, 07:43:57 pm
Contrary to what folks have said here, nobody had any crowd advantage.  Amherst probably brought almost as many people as showed up for Oxy. 

I felt Oxy had a great showing, especially a couple days after the New Year.  Amherst fans, while in pretty good numbers, were silient the majority of the game (maybe they were shocked by the Tigers  ???).  The students come back in a couple weeks and both the team and Coach Newhall appriciate the significant amount of support they get at home and on road trips.  Last year Newhall provided buses for students to a good portion of the Tigers away games, giving them a nice fan base while away from home. 

Oxy had a great, great win for us.  A great statement for our conference that possibly our 3rd best team can play better than the 4th ranked national team.  Oxy is absolutely fearless outside of the conference and has been for several years.  New mantra at Oxy should be "Anywhere, anytime - as long as it isn't a road game in the SCIAC."   

I think OXY is in a great position to do big things in conference this year, 3rd place is an understatement of their potential.  However, the Tigers do tend to fall apart on the road... let's see how they do at La Verne this week.

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 05, 2006, 08:05:40 pm
Oxy had a definite crowd advantage.  It wasn't a big crowd, and a fair number of Amherst fans were in attendance, and the key cheerleaders were the bench players, all of this is true.  But the fact remains that the place was electric and very pro-Oxy in the last 5 minutes of the game.  The Oxy bench would start a cheer of "De-Fense (clap, clap)" and the crowd would respond.  The Amherst fans, by contrast, were pretty quiet.  In fact, a far smaller crowd brought by Puget Sound to Westmont last week was much louder and more enthusiastic than the mostly quiet Amherst fans.  I'd be flabbergasted if the Oxy players didn't agree that the crowd's enthusiasm was a factor in their late-game play.

I only saw the one game of the Oxy Classic, so I can't comment on how Oxy compares to other SCIAC teams.  But the simple fact that Oxy beat Amherst by 5 a day after Amherst beat P-P by 19 raises a reasonable inference that Oxy is the better team.  Fortunately, it'll be settled on the floor and not left to debate.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 05, 2006, 08:27:54 pm
Those who were there were making noise, but it didn't seem like that many people were there.  Lots of empty spaces.  Having said that, I do agree that for a winter break game, it was nice to see more than just parents in attendance.  If DJ is right and nobody cares about hoops at PP other than the CMS game, then Oxy has created a unique SCIAC culture.  There seems to 'rock star' effect (DIII style) at Eagle Rock.   Good to see.  

I also agree that Oxy clearly has the potential to beat Kats as well as CMS.   I'd bet that the Amherst coach would be surprised if Oxy didn't beat Amherst.  The thing is, the PP team that shows up against Oxy, against CMS & against CLU, will be much better than the team that showed up against Amherst.  Just like the Hens showed against Whitworth.  Only a great coach could get a team to overcome a whipping like that in less than 24 hours.  

Why PP can't play better against national teams continues to puzzle me.  Nothing highlighted that more than the Amherst game.  Had that game been on the road, DJ and other PP fans would be on the thread talking about how hard it is to win away from home.  It wasn't.  Was it Oxy playing at home?  Oxy's loud 50 fans in my opinion just weren't enough to give Oxy that much more of an advantage.   So why the blow out?  

My theory: the CMS & Oxy tourneys are part of Kats's development strategy.  His major focus in those games are in giving his kids an opportunity to play in two gyms that will be important to them in a couple of weeks.  Does he play to lose?  Never.  I just think that he uses the pre-season to build, tinker and prepare for those 3-4 close SCIAC games.  Historically it always works for him.  Look at the banners.  

Unfortunately, a 20 point beating by an Amherst team that Oxy beats the next night will definitely hurt his team against a more talented Puget Sound team.   If Amherst beats them by 20, what is Puget Sound going to think when the Hens roll into Tacoma?  

 

    

    
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 06, 2006, 10:32:48 am
 Had that game been on the road, DJ and other PP fans would be on the thread talking about how hard it is to win away from home.

 ??? huh?  Why are you including my name in that specifically?  Obviously I do think it's hard to win games on the road, but when have I used that as an excuse for losing a game?

but anyway, I'm not sure why PP struggles against some of the national teams every now and then...but i do know that the vast majority of the emphasis there is placed on league games.  That's what the players get up for the most, while other SCIAC teams seem to get up more for playing non-conference games.  Actually, without any statistical research on this (sup Sager), it seems like both CMS and PP seem to lose more of these than perhaps they should, while schools like La Verne, Whittier, and Redlands play better out of conference than in.  Of course, Oxy is leading the way with both their non-conference schedule and their impressive play in those games.  Like someone mentioned though, it seems they ALWAYS lose a game on the road that they shouldn't in league and that comes back to bite them.  If you want to beat out PP, CMS, or CLU, you might be able to survive a road loss to one of those schools, but you certaintly can't do that AND drop one at La Verne

As for league, like I mentioned a few posts back, I would assume Oxy's the favorite, but I have no doubt that my PP boys will be contending as always.  I'll actually be down there to root them on in the always brutally tough home game vs. Cal Tech and the usual cakewalk that is CMS.  Oh wait, i think i got those mixed up
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 06, 2006, 12:18:49 pm
Check out some of the posts in the Amherst thread.  Folks over there are talking about tough West Coast programs like Oxy & Pomona.  I can't believe what I am seeing.  I love it.  Thanks Oxy. 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 06, 2006, 05:53:45 pm
Check out some of the posts in the Amherst thread.  Folks over there are talking about tough West Coast programs like Oxy & Pomona.  I can't believe what I am seeing.  I love it.  Thanks Oxy. 

Yeah, it's nice to see if you're a SCIAC fan. But keep in mind that Amherst and Williams fans are in constant CYA mode, because those two fan bases are absolutely merciless towards each other. To read the NESCAC room, you'd think that neither team ever played an unworthy opponent out of region. Nobody will admit to it, because it gives the other team's fans an edge in their endless arguments.

Also, while the NESCAC has some really top-notch programs, let's keep in mind that they play in a substandard region. There's not a whole lot of perspective there in terms of gauging the talent in other regions. And I doubt that anyone who posts in that room was actually in Cali watching the Lord Jeffs play this week.

I'm not badmouthing Oxy's win over Amherst. It is certainly a very gaudy and much-needed feather in the cap of the 2005-06 SCIAC. I'm just saying that you should take the banter about Oxy and PP in the NESCAC room with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 06, 2006, 06:06:38 pm
I will GS, good points.  But can you get Oxy some love in the next votes for Top 20?  They were #4 and although there is probably merit to what you said about their region, Amherst is a very good team capable of going on another deep tourney run.  Can't the One L to the NAIA D1 runner up and current #2 team and the Whitworth/Amherst wins get us back on the list?  Folks are voting Hanover in there with 4 losses and 2 other teams have 3 losses.  We understand that we don't play many games against other D3 teams so it is hard for the rest of the country to gauge us.  But how about some love? 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 06, 2006, 06:24:18 pm
Oxy's release for the Amherst game.

http://www.oxy.edu/x4705.xml

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 06, 2006, 06:28:41 pm
Alas, WCW, I don't have that kind of clout.

I can, however, make a few predictions. The win over Amherst will suitably impress enough voters to get Oxy a lot more than their current modest total of 11 points in the Top 25 poll. Look for them to move up in the next poll into the top five or so in the Others Receiving Votes category (i.e., about #30 or so if you extend the Top 25 downward to number every team that gets a vote). The other prediction I would make is that Pat Coleman would respond to any pleas to give Oxy some love with something along the lines of, "The Tigers are only 3-0 against D3 competition, since LaSierra is a probie that doesn't count -- nor should they, since they're easily one of the worst teams in the country. And 7-4 Whitworth and 8-6 Chapman just aren't good enough to bolster the rep of Oxy all by themselves alongside Amherst, especially since the win over Whitworth was only by one point in the Oxy gym."

Me, I'd at least give some thought to voting Oxy into my #25 slot, although I wouldn't promise anything without a closer perusal of the other teams at the top of the ORV list. But I know how Pat and the voters think; they put a lot of stock in how a team plays against D3 comp, and Oxy just hasn't played enough D3 teams to date. It's the same syndrome that Hope usually fights every season.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 06, 2006, 06:54:32 pm
Appreciate the insight.  The curse of being isolated and not having a travel budget.  Same thing happened a few years ago with Oxy went the entire year without a D3 loss until the Elite 8.  Couldn't get much love then, although PC at least was paying attention.  PC, one win is one win but please think of us kindly.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 06, 2006, 10:30:48 pm
I will GS, good points.  But can you get Oxy some love in the next votes for Top 20?  They were #4 and although there is probably merit to what you said about their region, Amherst is a very good team capable of going on another deep tourney run.  Can't the One L to the NAIA D1 runner up and current #2 team and the Whitworth/Amherst wins get us back on the list?  Folks are voting Hanover in there with 4 losses and 2 other teams have 3 losses.  We understand that we don't play many games against other D3 teams so it is hard for the rest of the country to gauge us.  But how about some love? 



How about you wait for the poll to come out before you complain about it? I would say it's likely Occidental will be in the Top 25, which is pretty good for a team that basically only played Pacific Union (twice), La Sierra (twice) and West Coast Baptist up until the day after the last vote.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 06, 2006, 10:39:28 pm
I guess that means Pomona-Pitzer and CMS have to be ranked too, since they're as good or better than Oxy, per WCW.  Gonna be a historic week for the SCIAC!  :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2006, 10:45:23 pm
I guess that means Pomona-Pitzer and CMS have to be ranked too, since they're as good or better than Oxy, per WCW.  Gonna be a historic week for the SCIAC!  :)

Now, now, David - remember that you are not living in Ohio anymore!

Your weather may be warmer, but your new 'cohorts' may be colder! ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 07, 2006, 09:24:25 am
How about you wait for the poll to come out before you complain about it? I would say it's likely Occidental will be in the Top 25, which is pretty good for a team that basically only played Pacific Union (twice), La Sierra (twice) and West Coast Baptist up until the day after the last vote.

You really think that Oxy is going to crack the Top 25, Pat? That means leapfrogging a lot of teams. More importantly, it means that there has to be a certain number of spaces opening up at the bottom of the Top 25, and it's hard to see many possibilities for that. First of all, North Central gets first dibs on a Top 25 space ahead of Oxy, because the Cards are undefeated and just beat #1 Illinois Wesleyan on the Titans' home floor (this assumes that the Cards win at Aurora tonight, of course). Second, what teams are going to fall out of the Top 25? Ohio Northern and tonight's Hanover/Bluffton loser are the only two certainties that I can see, with St. John Fisher the only team in the bottom five playing tonight that has a real chance at an upset loss (@ Hartwick), although I can see Elmhurst plummeting out of the Top 25 from the #16 spot if they lose their second game this week at Augie tonight.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Titan Q on January 07, 2006, 10:04:40 am
I gotta believe #16 Elmhurst is out, Greg.  The voters have been appropriately patient with the 'jays after the losses @ #6 Hope, @ UW-Platteville, and  @ #5 Albion, but with a home loss to unranked Millikin Wednesday, I just can't see many voters sticking with them.  Of course, EC does play @ #13 Augustana tonight...if they win that one, they'd have to weigh "great win" vs "bad loss."
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 07, 2006, 11:15:31 am
I gotta believe #16 Elmhurst is out, Greg.  The voters have been appropriately patient with the 'jays after the losses @ #6 Hope, @ UW-Platteville, and  @ #5 Albion, but with a home loss to unranked Millikin Wednesday, I just can't see many voters sticking with them.  Of course, EC does play @ #13 Augustana tonight...if they win that one, they'd have to weigh "great win" vs "bad loss."

I agree, on the condition that Elmhurst loses tonight. If they beat Augie on the road tonight, I think that that cancels out the home loss to Millikin in the minds of the voters.

Any way you look at it, though, it's hard to envision more than three teams dropping out of the Top 25. North Central is a shoo-in for one of those three spots. Not that I'm entirely disagreeing with him at this point, but I'd like to read Pat's explanation as to why he thinks Occidental is going to get one of those two (at most) other spots.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 07, 2006, 03:17:35 pm
It's a long day today, I think other things can happen that would affect Top 25 spaces. For example, Lincoln just lost to Lebanon Valley on a neutral floor, which could yo-yo them out. Rochester's loss last night will drop them off some people's ballots, though not necessarily out of the Top 25 entirely. Catholic lost this week, as did Ramapo, which will cost them some of their votes.

The key facet will be whether the voters see this as more a function of Occidental being underrated or Amherst being overrated. There are facets of both, in my opinion, of course.

One other team that needs to be made room for, potentially, is Wilmington. There might be enough upheaval this week to prompt some voters to re-evaluate their ballot entirely.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2006, 03:20:34 pm
Pat,

I gotta type faster - you beat me to the punch!

#21 Lincoln's loss will presumably open up another slot in the top 25.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 07, 2006, 06:03:02 pm
Yup ... but as Pat mentioned, 12-1 Wilmington has knocked off two ranked teams in the past week, Ohio Northern and Baldwin-Wallace. Given the strength of the OAC, I gotta think that the voters are going to take a serious look at giving the Quakers some love in the next poll. And 11-0 NYU may duplicate that feat tomorrow with a home win over #19 Carnegie-Mellon, following on the heels of their victory over #18 Rochester last night.

In other words, Oxy's not the only team under the radar that's been burnishing their credentials this week.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dewcrew88 on January 07, 2006, 09:15:48 pm
In this week's Sports Illustrated, there is a great column by Rick Reilly about Caltech... they haven't won a SCIAC game in 21 years? Wow. :o
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 07, 2006, 09:46:45 pm
In this week's Sports Illustrated, there is a great column by Rick Reilly about Caltech... they haven't won a SCIAC game in 21 years? Wow. :o
Wow is right, I had no idea their streak of mediocrity was that impressive.  Seems like their due, perhaps I'll reconsider my affiliation and root for Cal Tech this year  ???

Looks like I'm in for a long season...  :-\
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 07, 2006, 11:33:20 pm
mediocrity

Uhm, I don't think that's the right term. :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 08, 2006, 12:01:59 pm
Oh no Pat, it's the right term.

Mediocrity

n 1: ordinariness as a consequence of being average and not outstanding [syn: averageness] 2: a person of second-rate ability or value
3: Cal Tech Athletics
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 08, 2006, 06:08:03 pm
There is hardly anything ordinary about that performance.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 08, 2006, 11:18:38 pm
Touche Pat, touche.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 09, 2006, 08:47:40 pm
How about you wait for the poll to come out before you complain about it? I would say it's likely Occidental will be in the Top 25, which is pretty good for a team that basically only played Pacific Union (twice), La Sierra (twice) and West Coast Baptist up until the day after the last vote.

You really think that Oxy is going to crack the Top 25, Pat? That means leapfrogging a lot of teams. More importantly, it means that there has to be a certain number of spaces opening up at the bottom of the Top 25, and it's hard to see many possibilities for that. First of all, North Central gets first dibs on a Top 25 space ahead of Oxy, because the Cards are undefeated and just beat #1 Illinois Wesleyan on the Titans' home floor (this assumes that the Cards win at Aurora tonight, of course). Second, what teams are going to fall out of the Top 25? Ohio Northern and tonight's Hanover/Bluffton loser are the only two certainties that I can see, with St. John Fisher the only team in the bottom five playing tonight that has a real chance at an upset loss (@ Hartwick), although I can see Elmhurst plummeting out of the Top 25 from the #16 spot if they lose their second game this week at Augie tonight.

Oxy does in fact crack the top 25, at #24.  (No love for Pomona-Pitzer or CMS, however.  :D)  Debutantes #12 North Central, #17 Wilmington, and #23 UW-Whitewater (not really a deb, as the Warhawks were in the preseason and Week 1 polls) came in ahead of Oxy, but there were five teams that dropped out to make room: Ohio Northern, Hanover, and Elmhurst, as mentioned above, as well as Lincoln and Rochester. 

Congratulations to the Oxy Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on January 09, 2006, 09:03:47 pm
Way to go Tigers!!

Let's hope we keep it up with the league opener against LaVerne this Wed (at Claremont) and against Cal Lu at home on Saturday.

Io Triumphe!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 09, 2006, 09:08:57 pm
Let's hope we keep it up with the league opener against LaVerne this Wed (at Claremont) and against Cal Lu at home on Saturday.

 ???  Why is this; does LaVerne not have a home court? 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on January 09, 2006, 10:16:13 pm
http://www.pomona.edu/magazine/pcmwin05/FSpopovich.shtml

See link for interesting article on Poppovich by Bill Plaschke, with a lot of references to his Pomona days, from the Pomona Magazine.  Good read.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 09, 2006, 11:29:53 pm
Let's hope we keep it up with the league opener against LaVerne this Wed (at Claremont) and against Cal Lu at home on Saturday.

 ???  Why is this; does LaVerne not have a home court? 

Not sure, I'm going to the game and I was actually surprised to hear it was at CMS.  Any Leopards on the board that might have an answer?

And congrats to the #24 Occidental Tigers, let's keep it up guys!  ;D

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on January 10, 2006, 12:00:58 am
Quote
does LaVerne not have a home court?
The Super Tents structure is still under renovation, I think.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 11, 2006, 04:04:04 pm
Anyone going to the Oxy / La Verne game tonight??

Be there or be square, me and some compadres should be at a bar near the campus to pregame.

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on January 11, 2006, 05:19:16 pm
Opening night of SCIAC play; this season looks to be a two-team race between PP and OXY, with CMS being the dark-horse...

Game of the Night:

Whittier at PP.  PP has won the last four meetings; but the Poets have won three in a row and they play tough at PP(losing by a combined 8 points last two years).  Prediction PP by 5.

CMS by 6 @Redlands (CMS won by 21 @Redlands on Dec.3)
OXY by 11 vs. LV @CMS (LV's website shows that the supertent won't be ready until middle of Feb.)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on January 11, 2006, 05:57:20 pm
The tent is in fact being renovated.  We were going to broadcast but when we found out it was at CMS, we said no -- logistical nightmare doing a game there (Unless someone can tell me that the gym is wi-fi'd now).
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 11, 2006, 07:22:19 pm
We were going to broadcast but when we found out it was at CMS, we said no -- logistical nightmare doing a game there (Unless someone can tell me that the gym is wi-fi'd now).

that gym is just awful in every aspect
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on January 11, 2006, 07:30:29 pm
Does anyone know if LV will broadcast tonight's game against Oxy? I know they do some games. (No offense, tigersports; you know I'd be listening to you if you were broadcasting tonight.)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 11, 2006, 08:39:02 pm
If there are any posters here who follow NATIONAL d3 bb, I appeal to you to check out Posters' Poll on the Multi-Region board.  We have started a poll (NOT intended to compete with the official d3hoops.com poll!); I think discrepancies between the 'real' poll and our poll could generate some lively conversations.

In the first poll (Tuesday) there were no voters west of Texas, and a heavy midwestern (geographical, not Midwest Region) bias.  I've appealed to both DC and diehardfan to reconsider their decisions not to participate, but in case that doesn't work, anyone else?!

As stated on the thread, I DO reserve the right to disallow overly 'homerish' ballots (5 teams from the SCIAC in the top 20 ain't gonna cut it!), but I intend to invoke that right only in EXTREME cases.  Oxy ended up the equivalent of 27th - think they should have been higher?  Vote!  (But, PLEASE, only those who DO follow d3 nationally.)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on January 12, 2006, 01:55:14 am
Oxy beats La Verne tonight, 68-56, moves to 10-1.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Tom Brady on January 12, 2006, 11:54:11 am
Hey guys and gals.  Check out the newest issue of Sports Illustrated and read rick Rileys column in the very back.  SCIAC and Cal tech gettin some love.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 13, 2006, 12:27:34 am
Pretty good game by the Tigers last night against a decent La Verne squad.  Oxy was in complete control in the first half going into the break with a comfortable lead.  The Leopards made a valient effort in the second half but fell short.

The Tigers advance to 10-1.

Good luck to Oxy on Saturday against the Kingsmen, I guarantee they'll be markedly better than La Verne.

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 13, 2006, 12:30:35 am
Also, a great call by Tom Brady.  The article in SI is funny and it gives the SCIAC some facetime.  Make sure to check it out.  It is the issue with Vince Young on the cover (January 9 edition).
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 13, 2006, 03:10:04 pm
Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville) listeners got a good discussion of this back on Tuesday night.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 13, 2006, 11:46:52 pm
If there are any posters here who follow NATIONAL d3 bb, I appeal to you to check out Posters' Poll on the Multi-Region board.  We have started a poll (NOT intended to compete with the official d3hoops.com poll!); I think discrepancies between the 'real' poll and our poll could generate some lively conversations.

In the first poll (Tuesday) there were no voters west of Texas, and a heavy midwestern (geographical, not Midwest Region) bias.  I've appealed to both DC and diehardfan to reconsider their decisions not to participate, but in case that doesn't work, anyone else?!

As stated on the thread, I DO reserve the right to disallow overly 'homerish' ballots (5 teams from the SCIAC in the top 20 ain't gonna cut it!), but I intend to invoke that right only in EXTREME cases.  Oxy ended up the equivalent of 27th - think they should have been higher?  Vote!  (But, PLEASE, only those who DO follow d3 nationally.)

Before the weekend games scroll this even further, wanted to appeal again for one or more west coast voters.  In the inaugural poll there were two voters from the West region, but both were WIAC - I've studied enough geography to be PRETTY sure that Wisconsin is pretty far from the west coast!!  If you follow d3 nationally, please check out the Posters' Poll thread on the Multi-Region Board.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 15, 2006, 02:41:49 am
rumor has it that yet ANOTHER cms player has quit...this time it's Turner

so after leaving PP and then CMS, the question looms...will Oxy receive his transfer app?  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on January 15, 2006, 09:18:03 am
?????

Quote
Pomona-Pitzer 57, Caltech 48
Jan 14, 2006

PASADENA, Ca — Pomona-Pitzer wins hard-fought defensive battle to defeat Caltech 57-48. Trailing by 8 at the half, 25-17, Caltech immediately fell behind by 10 on a basket by Ed Wexler-Beren (20 points). Caltech slowly responded over the next 6-plus minutes, finally forging a tie 33-33 at 13:22 on a three by Chris Yu. Pomona again pulled away with Wexler-Beren fueling the Sagehen offensive push to lead by 9 at 8:51. At 6:53, Evan Flagg's jumper made it a ten point deficit.

Caltech rallied on more time. A Scott Davies successful three was followed by a three from Jordan Carlson (15 points) at 1:58 as the shot clock expired to pull the Beavers to within 3, 51-48. Pomona called time-out. On the ensuing possession, the Sagehens used some clock before Jabarri Reynolds hit a back-breaking three pushing the lead back to 6. Missed three-point attempts by Caltech on the next two possessions and Pomona made their free throws for the final margin.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 15, 2006, 10:13:55 am
Wow. Caltech was within three points of one of the SCIAC's top two teams with less than two minutes left in the game? Of all the stories in D3 yesterday, that one may actually be the most dramatically improbable. Congrats to Roy Dow & Co. on a tremendous moral victory.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on January 15, 2006, 01:50:50 pm
Oxy beat Cal Lu 70-42 moving its record to 11-1 on the season.

Io Triumphe!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on January 15, 2006, 02:03:29 pm
I was surprised early in the year when the U of Dallas did not crush Cal Tech in Dallas.  But the scores of other Cal Tech games seemed to be more in line with the past. 

It looks like they can't be taken too lightly.  I haven't had a chance to read the SI article yet, but maybe Cal Tech is looking for more ink. :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 16, 2006, 01:17:22 pm
PP by 10 over Cal tech?  Did Kats send his JV team?  This year's PP team is shaping up to be an interesting story (beaten by a young Wash. U team, embarrassed by Amherst and a 10 point W over Cal tech).  Only solid W thus far is against a deflated Whitworth.  My early season prediction nonetheless stands, another banner year for Kats.  Too much talent on that team for Kats not to find a way to squeak out another banner.   Knowles has D2 potential and WB, Lloyd are also 1st teamers.  Any of those 3 could be MVP.   WB isn't as talented as the other two but never has an off night.  Maybe the coaches will vote to let all 3 split it. 

Real dog-fight will be for second.  CMS, Oxy and my sleeper LV will fight it out.  Why the smack on Oxy?  Kids haven't shown like Kats's boys that they can show up for the key 4 road games that you face.  If they voted awards off home performances Betty would be an All-American.  But unfortunately for him they don't and you have to be able to both bring it and show poise on the road.  PP always has and they will again this year - although based on how mediocre they are playing they too will take two lumps on the road in the SCIAC this year.   Whittier still has its annual big upset in the waiting.  Could be PP again.  Cal Lu will beat some folks at home.

 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on January 16, 2006, 08:56:04 pm
Oxy moves to up to # 19 from 24 in this week's top 25.

Eat'em up Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on January 17, 2006, 02:51:15 am
Whiner, "Could be PP again"? Whittier lost both to PP last year, but I do agree LV is a dark horse.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on January 17, 2006, 01:58:20 pm
LV a sleeper?  They better come alive pretty quick with games @CLU and vs.PP this week...not to mention that they only have 1 true home game on the schedule.

OXY has a chance to prove that they can play on the road this week...@Whittier and @Redlands.  Game of the week is PP @CMS, PP has won the last two games at Ducey.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 17, 2006, 08:05:38 pm
Should be a very good game between PP & CMS.  Winner will move into the front-runner seat in my mind.  The Stags have been getting better and that game is always close.  Oxy can send more messages this week that they are not faking the funk with Ws on the road.   Lots of good basketball left.     

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 18, 2006, 12:58:57 am
Wins on the road this week will a great boost for the already high hopes of every one here in Eagle Rock, the Tigers have been playing solid ball and I hope to get to see them at Whittier... Unfortunately Redlands is just too damn far, guess I'll have to wait till their three point side-show of a team comes to play the Tigers at home.

Go #19 Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on January 18, 2006, 03:42:35 pm
WestCoastWhiner writes:  "The winner [of the PP CMS hoops match] will move into the front-runner seat in my mind."

Really?  Given the pre-league results . . . and the national rankings . . . you somehow don't see Oxy as the presumed SCIAC front runner?

Not sure I understand that.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 18, 2006, 06:46:31 pm
yeah, i don't see how Oxy isn't the frontrunner

 :D @ Turner quitting before he faced PP...that woulda been fun to see
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 18, 2006, 08:48:44 pm
The transfer quit?  Someone has to give the skinny on that.  2nd player to pull something like that at CMS this year.  Yet they pulled together once through the adversity...

Oxy gets the national rank it deserves for its non-conference play.  But we are in the SCIAC here, land of Kats.  As a historian, I can't put Oxy on a pedestal until they prove something.  It's kind of like picking Tennessee to win the SEC.  Yeah they can play and yes they are well coached but in a conference with Florida and even a down Kentucky team, you would be foolish to say that Tennessee is the front-runner.  Better analogy is Maryland and Gary Williams.  It took him going all the way before folks in the ACC started looking at that program as more than a mid-tier ACC team.   

Now that is the last time anyone will hear me ever talk about the SCIAC in the same sentence as the ACC.  We are more like the Soutland Conference considering our bagels in the Tourney. 

Until Oxy proves something, I stick with the Big 3. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on January 18, 2006, 10:53:59 pm
Should be ain interesting game in the band-box, junior high gym that is Ducey.  Though watching from the upstairs "balcony" was always fun.  Looks like Lloyd didn't play in the last game against CalTech - is he still hurt?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on January 19, 2006, 12:26:25 am
No. 19 Occidental 63, Whittier 43
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 56, Pomona-Pitzer 42
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on January 19, 2006, 12:26:51 am
Now, as a Maryland native...

I do have to point out that since Gary Williams got to College Park in 1989, the Terps have made the tournament 11 of the last 12 seasons and he is  2nd on the all-time wins list behind Lefty at Maryland.

I believe they have 7 or 8 Sweet 16 appearances and 2 Final Fours, along with the championship in 2002...

He has done a marvelous job of turning the program around after Bob Wade and Len Bias left the program (tragically) in shambles.  He is the 5th all-time winningest coach in the ACC.

Granted, you have the traditional powers of Duke and UNC in the ACC, but I don't know if anyone would consider the Terps a mid-level ACC team...

Granted, I am biased, but I am biased towards my Oxy Tigers too.  I don't think you can argue against our ranking, regardless of how we have done in the past.  Didn't we just beat LV and CLU and Whitworth and Amherst?  We'll see when we go up against PP, but I don't think anyone can stop Betty down low.

Just like in football, give us some love.  In that way, we are similar to the Terps.

(The Oxy-Whittier game should be about ending right now, scores?) 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on January 19, 2006, 12:27:54 am
Add Whittier to the list.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 19, 2006, 03:32:51 am
20 point win at Whittier is a nice statement for Oxy.  Team looks like it is improving.  3 games in, I'm not prepared to jump on the bandwagon.  I need to see if they can overcome a tough Redlands crowd and most importantly, bring it against the SCIAC Duke & UNC next week.  I agree with you OF21 that when Betty shows up, he should get All-American votes.  The kid is special.  I'll look to see if he can continue to silence the doubters who don't think he will show up every night, like the great ones do. 

Someone give a report out of CMS.  Haven't seen a blowout by any SCIAC team over the Hens in a long, long time, let alone the Stags.  Especially in light of the Turner turmoil and the Hens bringing back not just everyone but 3 1st teamers.  I still think Kats is too great and their talent is too good not to turn it around.  But dang, that one hurts.

Off topic but OF21, on your GW point, I agree he is a great, great coach.  That is undisputable.  As an ACC fan, its obvious that the Terps are always a notch below UNC & Duke.  They certainly can beat them on any given night, especially at home, but like Oxy, they haven't found the way to win those 2 key road games that mean everything.  In the ACC GW has 1 ACC title in 17 years & I think only 1 ACC Tournament title in that same period).  Not exactly the stuff of a conference power.  Check Duke & UNC in that same period.  Fortunately for Terp fans, 3rd or 4th place in the ACC gets you in the Tourney, where Gary's great coaching finds Ws - well, it never hurts to have 3 or 4 future NBAers as well. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 19, 2006, 04:57:33 am
just cause i'm bored:

PP = Duke
CMS = UNC
Oxy = Maryland
CLU = Wake Forest
Whitter = NC State
La Verne = Georgia Tech
Redlands = Florida State
Cal Tech = Virginia



anyway, bad loss for PP tonight...this team is struggling mightily offensively...they're going to have to step that up and rely on great defense (a Coach Kat staple) if they want to win league.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on January 19, 2006, 10:41:47 am
Nice win for CLU last night over LaVerne  - although neither team shot the lights out...  It's great to see the Kingsmen continue to play hard and smart even with all the preseason health problems (especially losing Minney for the season).  I guess I expected a lot more out of LaVerne this year.  They were coming on strong at the end of last season and it didn't seem like they were going to lose that many key players to graduation.

I'm getting a kick out of the whole SCIAC-ACC comparison - especially hyphen's full conference breakdown (apparently Cal Tech needs to find their Ralph Sampson).  Having said that, I've got to think that this year the Tigers are the conference front runner.  I know that in the past they've had trouble winning down the 210 but I get the sense that this year may be different.  PP is struggling now (I'm not ruling out a turn around) and CMS seems strong but not dominant.  CLU has the aforementioned experience problems, and although you never know what might happen when the Tigers make their last trip to Boston Garden West my sense is that we'll all be pulling for the Tigers to represent the SCIAC well in March.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 19, 2006, 11:51:56 am
i take it back...Cal Tech isn't even Virginia...i'm downgrading them to Clemson
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 19, 2006, 03:31:20 pm
DJ, as usual, your knowledge is evident.  The only thing I would add is that Clemson is fighting out of the cellar and has things on the upswing.  Cal tech doesn't even belong in the SCIAC. 

Look, I respect the effort by those kids but someone has to explain to me why their participation in the conference isn't a reflection of the institutional opposition to athletics at Oxy, CMS, PP, Whittier & Redlands.  Great pub for them in SI but all the same, let them be an independent.  I understand they need to be in the league to keep their NCAA status but what is the value add for everyone else in the conference?  Why wouldn't serious consideration be given to replacing them with Chapman?  What do we lose by that move?  From my perspective we gain a school that isn't that far off from some of the existing SCIAC schools in terms of academia, costs, size, mission.  And we lose a school that has negative emphasis on sports and has no desire to field competitive teams.   Then again, maybe that is true for all of the SCIAC schools.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on January 19, 2006, 03:46:17 pm
Quote
I understand they need to be in the league to keep their NCAA status but what is the value add for everyone else in the conference?

The main reason: they'll all graduate and become our bosses. Thus, let's end this discussion now or else they'll give us poor marks in our yearly reviews.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on January 19, 2006, 06:02:20 pm
The football board pretty much ran the whole course of this discussion, starting on about page 87.  I think this link might work:

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=3702.1290

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on January 21, 2006, 02:53:53 pm
Oxy at Redlands tonight . . . keep the streak!

Eat'em up Tigers
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 21, 2006, 05:54:16 pm
Looking forward to see a good game tonight!  Redlands is always entertaining to watch, even when they're having a down year.

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on January 22, 2006, 08:14:28 am
Oxy over Redlands 112-92 to move to 13-1 (4-0 SCIAC)
CMS over Caltech 59-49 (what is with the close scores this year with Caltech?)
PP over La Verne 77-66
CLU over Whittier 76-60

Oxy dukes it out with CMS on Wednesday for sole conference lead. Should be a great game.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 22, 2006, 04:10:39 pm
Tigers really turned it on in the second half and Redlands went ice-cold from 3-point range. 

Sam Betty posted a season high 47 points, an Occidental record, he was in complete control of the game and scored at will (which has become a common theme).
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 22, 2006, 05:45:01 pm
there should be a separate record book for games with Redlands
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Tom Brady on January 22, 2006, 09:33:29 pm
There should also be someone at Cal Lutheran stepping in and stop letting their fans act the way they do.  Maybe I am old school but their fans (students) showed absolutely no class last night.  I actually went to the game (which was my first in many years) and left early when the students started turning around and yelling at the Whittier fans.  Too bad a good game had to end (at least for me) the way it did.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Kingsmen1981 on January 23, 2006, 05:30:48 am
I have been going to Kingsmen games and games all over the sciac for many years and the students at the cal lu games are the loudest and most energetic fans I have ever seen.  The home court advantage these kids are giving the Kingsmen is an advantage no other team in the sciac has.  It would be a shame  to not let these kids yell and scream on the sideline.  The students even brought a young man who I know personally who is disabled and has expressed to me being with these gentlemen and cheering on the sidline has been a "Top 10 highlight of my LIFE"  I'm sure Daniel  Kuntz will make the decision to keep the "Best fans in DIII basketball" inside that gym. 
As for the chanting at the Whittier fans all I heard was a "Drive Home Safely" and a "Just Like Football" chant but my old ears may have missed something.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 23, 2006, 09:54:41 am
actually, the Redlands fans usually give their team the best support, although definitely not in any sort of classy way....if they actually had a decent team to root for, it'd be crazy over there

That's why it's better to have your road game at Redlands to be as late in the year as possible...cause after they beat up some unsuspecting teams and scrubs in preseason, they usually enter SCIAC with a fairly decent record.  The fans are always all into it...until the first few SCIAC games bring them back down to reality and the buzz on campus fizzles.  Then by the end, half the Redlands players think the program should revert back to normal ball, and they struggle down the stretch.  it's like clockwork
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on January 23, 2006, 12:15:27 pm
Hyphen-

Your Redlands take is dead on - I was there in mid-February last year and the students who were there quickly lost interest when the game took over the usual pattern.  The players seemed much more frustrated than they had earlier in the season in the game at CLU - at which point I think they were 9-3 or something and still optimistic about the season.

As for the CLU students, in my two chances to observe them this year I've been glad to see such a high level of positive energy, absent of the kinds of personal attacks and disparaging remarks that have become standard issue in D1 student sections across the country.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on January 23, 2006, 02:03:12 pm
Remember when Greenlee from La Verne was talking trash before going to La Verne as a transfer 3 years ago.  I just thought about that after looking over the weekends scores.  Good times.  He and La Verne are both doing a wonderful job backing up the talk.

Oxy is definitely the team to beat at this point. Can't argue with an undefeated DIII record so far.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on January 23, 2006, 02:34:05 pm
I was at the Whitter/CLU game and I didn't think that the CLU fans were too bad...just the usually things that you would here on the road.

Big week for OXY(who will probably move to #18); facing CMS and PP...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on January 23, 2006, 02:44:05 pm
Where did Greenlee transfer from?  I was intrigued to see him sit for 5-6 of the last 10 minutes of a close game at CLU on Wednesday (I think he had two fouls at the time).  It's hard to tell what's going on there...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 23, 2006, 04:41:26 pm
Nobody ever came on here to detail what happened at CMS with Turner.   Big win over PP in his absence but losing that talent off the bench hurts. 

Betty is bringing it.  Other than the guy from CLU, I think it was Avedian, I think that was one of the biggest outputs against the lay-up giving Redlands system.  I listened to the last 15 minutes of that game and Betty must have had about 5 dunks in a row.  I'll give it him for showing up on the road.   If he keeps showing up like that I'm prepared to change my moniker to "Betty for All-America".

Lots of hoops left.  Expect good performances from Oxy this week.  They hold it down in the Rock pretty well.  Ask Amherst.    

 

 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on January 23, 2006, 04:44:30 pm
Anyone have any idea what happened to Sasich at Oxy?  He's no longer listed on the team roster.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 23, 2006, 04:50:38 pm
I'll give it him for showing up on the road.   If he keeps showing up like that I'm prepared to change my moniker to "Betty for All-America".

Betty is a stud.  I think he is one of the best that I have seen come through the SCIAC.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on January 23, 2006, 05:24:52 pm
Betty is bringing it.  Other than the guy from CLU, I think it was Avedian, I think that was one of the biggest outputs against the lay-up giving Redlands system. 

I think it was Hodges who had something like 54 against Redlands on 24-25 shooting.  I know he had two big games against the Bulldogs last year.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on January 23, 2006, 05:40:37 pm
It was Hodges from Cal Lu that took it to Redlands.  But honestly each of the top teams in the SCIAC has someone that takes it to Redlands.  With the luxury of preparing for "the system" that they run, the good SCIAC coaches are able to break it down and get layups or shots within 5 feet.  Thats why you see shooting percentages against them above 70%...often. 

What I heard about Turner at CMS was that he felt he wasn't "fitting" in with his teammates.  Whether this is his excuse this time is hard to know.  I suppose it would be difficult to transfer across 6th St. to your bitter rivals and join their team.  But again maybe the problem this whole time wasn't with the people at PP or those at CMS.  Maybe this issue is with Turner. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 23, 2006, 07:55:00 pm
what do you mean, "maybe" the issue was with Turner.  It's clearly with him.  The proverbial T.O. of the SCIAC, except change the exceptional talent to above average.  A waste of explosive scoring ability, but a cancer to any squad really

and just to add in to the Redlands defensive prowess, wasn't it our golden boy Chris Wight who dropped 64 on em or something?  Tweety must have been ballin that day :D I think he had the highest point total...with Hodges 2nd
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on January 23, 2006, 08:29:30 pm
Hodges had 63 pts the 1st game and 52 the 2nd game.
http://www.d3hoops.com/tow/05/jan16.htm

It was Shivers that had 57 pts on 17 3 ptrs against Whittier.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 23, 2006, 08:34:01 pm
yeah my bad, i was way off on Tweety...just checked the redlands archived, he didn't do nearly as well as I remembered.  Props to Hodges
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 23, 2006, 10:20:30 pm
Anyone have any idea what happened to Sasich at Oxy?  He's no longer listed on the team roster.
Apparently his knees are shot, so he's done.  Good player for Oxy, but the Tigers are still pretty deep and get it done long enough to give our starters a good rest.

Two big home games for Oxy this week, and its the first week back for classes... the student body should be in full force!

Go Tigers
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Eye of da TIGER on January 23, 2006, 10:24:20 pm
Hold on one minute.......... In my very unbiased opinion i believe that the Oxy Tigers have the best crowd support!!!!! Almost the entire football team goes to bball games both home and away.  And for those of you who think your crowd is loud and crazy just wait till the Tigers come to town or you come to the Rock!!!  I understand why some of you think its rude and not very classy, but come on its college basketball.  As an athlete myself, there is nothing like playing in a rowdy stadium.  It makes the game more fun when it seems like everyone is actually interested in the game.  So there you have it, my vote for best crowd and fan support goes to the Oxy Tigers, and for those of you who disagree, just wait to see what we are wearing when you play the Tigers!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 24, 2006, 01:55:31 am
CLU, Redlands, Oxy all have good home court advantages.  PP's late arriving crowd at half last year against Oxy (word must have trickled around campus that Oxy rolled in with its loud football team fans and the kids dropped their espressos, put on their JCrew sweaters and rolled to the gym), helped their squad blow open a close game with the Tigers.  So when needed, PP can definitely represent as well.  Bigger question than who has the better crowd is who has the most clever crowd.  And here, I give it up to the half dozen Techie fans.  Can't ever forget seeing once sign "Take it to the Hole" then a picture of the mascot.  Somehow that passed the sensors.  Good thing there were more players on the court than fans. 

Turner doesn't realize but he just added some skeletons to his closet that will stay there a while.  Transfer to CMS then quit?  Got to be tough to live that down.  Two failed schools.  Hope he has some other postives in his life and sees the big picture.  Why in the earth would he transfer to CMS?!?  Just to stick it to his boys?  That would be about the last SCIAC school I would have picked for him.

 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 24, 2006, 03:45:37 am
And here, I give it up to the half dozen Techie fans.  Can't ever forget seeing once sign "Take it to the Hole" then a picture of the mascot.  Somehow that passed the sensors.  Good thing there were more players on the court than fans. 

a few years ago, Cal Tech actually had a little cheer squad thing going (and you thought Duke had the ugliest cheerleaders :-\ ), and my favorite cheer was easily:  "Beaver fever...snatch it up"

[banya] that's GOLD Jerry! [/banya]
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Howlinwolf on January 24, 2006, 12:16:18 pm
The enegy level of fans can turn a well contested game into a truly exciting experience for players and spectators. More props to SCIAC schools that create such an atmosphere.
However, there is a line that can be crossed, and an "anything goes" philosophy that encourages crass, unimaginative, "junior high" cheers is both boring and classless. It reflects poorly on the individuals and the college they represent. Any bozo can scream "bull****"  Too often the object is to denigrate opposing players, refs' calls, etc. rather than to really get behind  one's own team. Sure, get into the opposing team's head, but do it with clever cheers. 
Raise the bar AND the volume. The fans that do will distinguish themselves from the rest.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on January 24, 2006, 12:18:18 pm
My vote for best atmosphere would be PP @ CMS.  Ducey is tiny, hot and loud when those teams meet.  CMS @ PP can be pretty good as well, the bigger gym negates the additional capacity in terms of atmosphere.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 24, 2006, 03:16:09 pm
Doesn't seem like this issue is going to be easily settled, I can say I'll definitely be at the majority of the SCIAC games this year... So I'll going to go ahead and appoint myself to figure out which fans are the best. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on January 24, 2006, 09:16:39 pm
Oxy moves to #16 in the newest national top 25 poll!!!

Go Tigers!
Io Triumphe!

Keep it up boys!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on January 25, 2006, 01:21:16 am
Those of you that can't make it Wed or Sat, be sure to listen at oxybroadcast.com.  We're also podcasting now.  Subscribe at http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=120004382. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on January 25, 2006, 11:53:29 am
Doesn't seem like this issue is going to be easily settled, I can say I'll definitely be at the majority of the SCIAC games this year... So I'll going to go ahead and appoint myself to figure out which fans are the best. 

Thanks, Oswald - that's big of you  ;)

I obviously have my own biases, but I have to say that the best SCIAC fans I've ever seen at an away game was when CLU played CMS at Ducey with the SCIAC title on the line in 2002.  That crowd changed the game.  I would agree with pomona alum that larger gyms sometimes kill the atmosphere.  I'm looking forward to the new facilities at CLU, but I also know that the new building will make it much more difficult to generate a big homecourt advantage.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: artestes on January 25, 2006, 10:49:08 pm
Turner should just transfer to Cal Tech so he can get the number of shots up that he deserves.

It's a good thing coach kats played Turner as a freshman above me as a senior. That seems to have  paid big dividends for everyone... i'm not bitter or anything
Title: Tonight
Post by: Howlinwolf on January 26, 2006, 01:17:24 am
Oxy squeaked out a 52-48 win over the Stags in front of a boistrerous home crowd to run their conference record to 5-0. A few well-timed three's and intensified defense made the difference.
Large Oxy student rooting section made a difference, Enthusiastic, vocal, but classy. Grest atmopshere, especially for a weekday game. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 26, 2006, 04:06:23 am
Turner should just transfer to Cal Tech so he can get the number of shots up that he deserves.

It's a good thing coach kats played Turner as a freshman above me as a senior. That seems to have  paid big dividends for everyone... i'm not bitter or anything

 :D ahahhaha...word.



PP beat CLU in a close one last night, so i think they're one game back behind Oxy
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on January 26, 2006, 11:41:19 am
Hyphen-
Can you (or anyone who was there) give a quick rundown on last night's CLU-PP game?  Was it close the whole way?  The young Kingsmen continue to play tough - historically Cal Lu has a tough time at PP.  I'm looking forward to the Hens' final visit to their favorite gym in the SCIAC. ;D

Tigersports-
I caught the last part of your broadcast last night - you guys do a nice job.  Sounds like a good game with a great atmosphere.  I agree with OxyBob, Oxy will have a challenge on their hands at CMS.  Is it too early to start the "will we get two teams in if they are both 13-1" discussion?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 26, 2006, 03:21:30 pm
Artestes, ROTFLMAO.

SCIAC has another interesting race.  CMS wasn't giving up their place on the mantle easily.  Oxy grinding out a close win is testimony to their evolution.  Historically the Big 3 win those games.  Kudos to the Tigers for trying to be poor students of history and for getting the SCIAC national recognition in both football & hoops.  Newhall and his staff have done a great job this year.  Thanks guys. 

Having said that, my prediction stands.  PP will come out on top.  Kats and his boys will come in hungry this weekend.  They will be even better prepared for Oxy than CMS.  Listening to the last 4 minutes last night Oxy played NOT to lose.  If CMS can glove Betty, PP certainly can.   Remember, PP still has the best guard, my prediction for MVP Wex-Bar, the second most talented athlete after Betty in Lloyd, a shooter and a solid big guy down low.  Plus, PP will expect to win.   

My guess is that Oxy's tentativeness displayed at the end of the CMS game carries over into Saturday and we have a 3 way tie for first heading into next week.  Crowd & defense will make it close but Knowles & WB will get 35 points between them.  Would certainly make for an interesting second half.





 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 26, 2006, 08:00:33 pm
^^you really think Betty is a better athlete than Lloyd?  I'm gonna have to disagree on that one man

Scandihoovian, I didn't see the PP/CLU game, but apparently it was a hard fought, physical game throughout...and PP just made the plays down the stretch to win it.  CLU made their living from 3, hitting like 12 of them to stay in the game
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: old_hooper on January 26, 2006, 08:42:13 pm
The CLU-PP game was a close one all the way through.  CLU had the lead most of the game but the Sagehens had a nice little run with about 5 minutes left on some CLU TOs that put them up by 5.  Knowles got a steal and could have easily laid it up but pulled and nailed a 3.  That seem to be the momentum turner in the game and CLU played catchup the rest of the way.  A questionable call on another TO by CLU at the end that looked like it should have been a jump ball with about 12 seconds left and PP was awarded a timeout and the ball.  Good game by CLU that had PP on the edge of their seat all night.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on January 27, 2006, 12:02:34 am
Actually there were 3 questionable calls down the stretch.  With a loose ball under CLU's basket being awarded to Pomona when it was clearly off Beron......LLoyd getting away with a push on a missed Hollo FT and putting it back.....then the jump ball/time out (where 2 of the 3 refs called it a jump).

Granted immediately after the Lloyd push....I think the ref gave CLU a makeup call when Beron blocked a shot, but called it a foul and they made 2 FTs after it.  But going back to the fan issue....after the block all 20 PP fans...yelled B***S****!!!! And the CLU fans were called crass?!?!?!

But I do believe that the CLU youth was served as they couldnt get that key stop down the stretch.  But they will be good.  Their 6'7 freshman center is big and athletic, and their guard play with the 2 sophs (Iniss/Arciboni) is very solid.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 27, 2006, 12:27:53 am
Is it too early to start the "will we get two teams in if they are both 13-1" discussion?

Always too early to start that discussion, considering the conference schedule is only part of the season.

13-1 is irrelevant. Regional record is.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 27, 2006, 04:51:26 am
But going back to the fan issue....after the block all 20 PP fans...yelled B***S****!!!! And the CLU fans were called crass?!?!?!

eh, this chant is completely normal and accepted these days.  I hear it bleed through the mics every game that's broadcast on ESPN or FSN.  I'm not saying it's "classy," but it's so standard now that it's not a big deal to me

besides, who ever claimed PP fans were classy?  The best atmosphere in SCIAC is unquestionably the CMC/PP games at Ducey...which includes non-classy behavior from fans (and parents) on both sides.  To quote Stephen A...Quite frankly, it's a beautiful thing.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2006, 09:28:10 am
eh, this chant is completely normal and accepted these days. 

I can think of more than a few campuses where it is considered neither normal nor acceptable. I've seen it chanted with no repercussions suffered by the students who were doing it -- but I've also seen students thrown out of the gym for chanting it.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 27, 2006, 09:33:25 am
well, at the D1 level, it's completely standard.  At the D3 level, I expect officials would have a tough time if more than say 15 people were doing it...if it's a handful, I can see them being asked to leave if they don't stop after a warning or two.  You'd have to be pretty belligerent to get tossed from a SCIAC game...at worst, some school official might come over and try to get the crowd to stop...but again, that's only if it's a handful of people.  If you have 15+, I doubt anyone would do anything for the BS chant...maybe the SCIAC's more liberal than some of the leagues you're more familiar with
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2006, 10:19:06 am
well, at the D1 level, it's completely standard.  At the D3 level, I expect officials would have a tough time if more than say 15 people were doing it...if it's a handful, I can see them being asked to leave if they don't stop after a warning or two.  You'd have to be pretty belligerent to get tossed from a SCIAC game...at worst, some school official might come over and try to get the crowd to stop...but again, that's only if it's a handful of people.  If you have 15+, I doubt anyone would do anything for the BS chant...maybe the SCIAC's more liberal than some of the leagues you're more familiar with

Yeah, it could be a cultural thing. Most of the midwestern D3 schools are small-town institutions, and a lot of the games promote a family atmosphere. Lots of impressionable small kids everywhere, lots of older people, and lots of administrators nervously standing in the doorways wondering if the students are going to get out of hand. Plus, the more religiously-oriented schools would never stand for the barnyard epithet chant even if a hundred visiting students were doing it. Even the schools whose religious affiliations are nominal take great pains to present themselves as models of institutional decorum. In the gyms of several midwestern leagues (in particular the league with which I'm most familiar, the CCIW), the league and/or NCAA code of fan conduct is either read aloud before a game or printed in the game program.

D1 schools are irrelevant to this issue. Theirs is a completely different culture.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on January 27, 2006, 12:02:47 pm
With few exceptions, SCIAC games are not "family affairs" - there is little to no support from the communities.  The reasons for this are varied and numerous...What fans are there are made up of students, faculty/staff, and some parents of players.  That's about it.  Few small kids, etc.

Not a value judgment, just a statement of fact.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 27, 2006, 12:17:36 pm
(and I believe at all SCIAC gyms)

nope, not at all

also, being a dj, i always paid attention to the music the schools played during the games (hip-hop obviously...aside from the painfully out of place rock at CMC)...and I definitely remember numerous times Oxy didn't use clean edits.  Personally, i couldn't care less...but if they're so concerned about promoting a family atmosphere, someone might want to remember to grab the radio edits

although generally speaking, officials, staff, parents, etc. (aka old white people) struggle to hear anything but the most obvious explicit lyrics...so it's fairly moot
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on January 27, 2006, 01:31:20 pm
Thanks for the compliment, Scandi.  We enjoy doing the games.    As for the comments from DJ Hyphen, as a guy that listened to indie rock and psychedelia back in my college days (and still do, though the indies I listen to were indies back then and crust old white guys now), I must say I just don't get the hip-hop thing.  Is this really what the majority of college kids listen to?  Man, what happened to going to some dive club on Sunset and checking out some obscure band from Austin or Phoenix or something.  (I guess that officially makes me a 40 year-old white guy).   Bottom line, though I don't offend easily, I really don't want to hear n----r or m----th---r while I'm getting ready for the game.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on January 27, 2006, 02:29:47 pm
Thanks for all the insight on the CLU-PP game everyone.  Like I said, I'm already looking forward to the rematch.

I know this is unrelated to basketball, but might be of interest to some of the people on this board who are fans of Sparky Anderson and  Ernie Harwell.  CLU's dedicating it's new baseball field tomorrow, here's a link to the article:

http://www.venturacountystar.com/vcs/co_valley/article/0,1375,VCS_166_4420308,00.html
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 27, 2006, 03:15:17 pm
I can think of more than a few campuses where it is considered neither normal nor acceptable. I've seen it chanted with no repercussions suffered by the students who were doing it -- but I've also seen students thrown out of the gym for chanting it.
Quote

And I've seen a 70+ year old man thrown out, tomato... tomatao
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 27, 2006, 03:17:42 pm
I'm of the mind that most anything should go at basketball games, I understand the idea of family atmosphere... but if the guys on the team (any team) wanted a nice quiet gym to play some ball in while their mom watched they'd play at the YMCA. 

Fan support, especially from the student body is important to any sport, good luck censoring them.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 27, 2006, 04:41:59 pm
Kerr incident will go down as the worst display of fan behavior outside of European futbol in recent memory.   Az St. will never live that down.

Fan involvement has to be supported, even with some kids pushing the boundaries.  Personally, I'm just glad folks at SCIAC schools care outside of the Claremont-PP battle & Saturday nights at CLU/Redlands.   

DJ, Lloyd is a pimp and deserved the MVP last year.  WB will take it from him this year, ala Bush-Leinhart.  Knowles wants it too.  Betty is the better athlete but he hasn't proved in the conference that he is in Lloyd's league as a player.   Betty was an outstanding football player for Oxy prior to joining the hoops team and has already registered at least 2 of the top 10 greatest dunks ever by a SCIAC player.  Stepping away from football has clearly opened up his game.  Having said that, Betty's performance against CMS prevents me from jumping on his bandwagon yet.  We'll see whether he has the mental fortitude and poise to put himself on Lloyd's level. 

But speaking of Lloyd, with all of that talent and ability, he may go down as the most disappointing out-of-conference performer ever.  Puget Sound, Trinity, Amherst.  Dang.     


 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 27, 2006, 06:18:56 pm
>>I'm of the mind that most anything should go at basketball games<<

I most respectfully disagree with my esteemed Oxy colleague. Arizona State vs. Steve Kerr comes to mind as an example of "anything goes" gone ugly. Home fans should be encouraged to enthusiastically support their team, to respect their opponents, who are their guests, and always exhibit good sportsmanship in their words and actions.

OxyBob

I looked up the Kerr incident, I'd never heard that story before, maybe some of you have a few years on me... that's absolutely atrocious, no fan with any respect for the game, players, or themselves could ever sink to that level.  So consider my previous statement ammended to include the terrible things said by ASU
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 27, 2006, 06:58:17 pm
Is this really what the majority of college kids listen to?  Man, what happened to going to some dive club on Sunset and checking out some obscure band from Austin or Phoenix or something.  (I guess that officially makes me a 40 year-old white guy).   Bottom line, though I don't offend easily, I really don't want to hear n----r or m----th---r while I'm getting ready for the game.

Well the players don't mind, and the students don't, but obviously the other people in the building don't want to hear the dirty edits of the tracks...so I was always surprised that nobody said anything when they used the non-radio version.  I think the strangest pre game music I heard was at Biola, who apparently can't play rap music...so they just play the instrumentals.  Weird, to say the least

But anyway, yes, the majority of college kids, and likewise the majority of young people in the country, listen to rap music, at least partially.  Rap comprises most of the Top 40 these days, and pop radio plays a ton of rap...more than ever before.  If you want to get into the reasons behind that, you could write books...but basically, old rich white men market the 'taboo' stereotypical image of young black youth, making millions off suburban kids everywhere and ****ing up the future of the black community at the same time.  It's pretty effective for them
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 27, 2006, 07:11:21 pm
DJ, Lloyd is a pimp and deserved the MVP last year.  WB will take it from him this year, ala Bush-Leinhart.  Knowles wants it too.  Betty is the better athlete but he hasn't proved in the conference that he is in Lloyd's league as a player.   Betty was an outstanding football player for Oxy prior to joining the hoops team and has already registered at least 2 of the top 10 greatest dunks ever by a SCIAC player.  Stepping away from football has clearly opened up his game.  Having said that, Betty's performance against CMS prevents me from jumping on his bandwagon yet.  We'll see whether he has the mental fortitude and poise to put himself on Lloyd's level. 

But speaking of Lloyd, with all of that talent and ability, he may go down as the most disappointing out-of-conference performer ever.  Puget Sound, Trinity, Amherst.  Dang.       

hmm...i'd be willing to say Lloyd has a few of the greatest dunks in SCIAC history too, along with some of the more incredible blocks I've ever seen.  A bunch of sportscenter top 10 worthy plays if they had happened at the D1 level.  As for that second statement, sure he hasn't had the greatest games in those 3 match ups...but with such a small sample set, you really can't make any definitive statement like that.  Especially to say "ever"...come on now
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on January 27, 2006, 07:58:49 pm
Betty is far and away the best player in SCIAC now, regardless of athleticism.  He is the best player on the best team.  This result of the game this weekend will determine that....if PP ever comes out of their zone.  Yes, Lloyd was voted the MVP of the SCIAC last year....but he was no where near the best player LAST YEAR.  Hodges, Jolly, Taylor should have been strong considerations.  But to say that a guy who averaged 10-12 pts in a season was the best player....come on.  But he sure is making a run at it this year.  He was a stud in the CLU game, but I still dont think he is better than Betty.

And for Betty being an outstanding FOOTBALL PLAYER, I would have to disagree.  He was the Jerome Bettis of Oxy football.  Put him in on the goal line and throw it up.  Because the guy has 3 TD's on 3 catches doesnt make him a great FB player.  It makes him a great situational player.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 27, 2006, 08:38:40 pm
Outstanding in the sense that he wasn't there just to have a uni on.  The kid added value.  Lloyd would get hit and take a while to get up.

Doesn't matter how many Lloyd averaged last season.  12 ppg in PP's system equates to about 20 in everyone else's. 

But you may be right about Betty.  Until the CMS game he has been playing as if he is one of the best players in the country.  His game from the pinch and the wing has seemed unstopable at times.  But to get gloved in a big game raises a big question mark in my mind.  Everyone is entitled to a less than spectacular game, even MVPS - but against the 2 time defending champs, Betty has to bring it to be considered in that camp. 

DJ, I'll put money down that Betty has had 3x Lloyd's dunks this year. 

I have no doubt that Lloyd has had some monsterous plays but I'll stick with Betty.  The guys has the size to dunk on 2 at a time. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 27, 2006, 09:16:30 pm
word, the dunking argument is pretty pointless, cause last i checked, we don't have a SCIAC tv package.  So the incredible plays that both Lloyd and Betty have made have only been seen by a handful, and rarely has one person seen both.  Tough to compare the almost 'urban legend' of some of these plays, that will surely grow over years from "a monster windmill fast break dunk" to lefty 360's in traffic.

Hopefully they'll both be able to put on a show this weekend....with my Hens pulling out the big win
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 27, 2006, 10:23:00 pm
And for Betty being an outstanding FOOTBALL PLAYER, I would have to disagree.  He was the Jerome Bettis of Oxy football.  Put him in on the goal line and throw it up.  Because the guy has 3 TD's on 3 catches doesnt make him a great FB player.  It makes him a great situational player.

Which is what the Tigers needed him for.  As a matter of fact, Sam actually would make his own playcard to go in his wrist band prior to game time with one word written on it... FADE.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 28, 2006, 02:49:15 am
And I've seen a 70+ year old man thrown out, tomato... tomatao

Wow, a septuagenarian chanting the barnyard epithet at a basketball game? That would almost be worth the price of admission, just for the man-bites-dog spectacle of it all.

I'm of the mind that most anything should go at basketball games, I understand the idea of family atmosphere... but if the guys on the team (any team) wanted a nice quiet gym to play some ball in while their mom watched they'd play at the YMCA. 

Fan support, especially from the student body is important to any sport, good luck censoring them.

Huh? How do you equate disallowing the BS chant with a "nice, quiet gym"? I could show you lots of gyms here in the midwest where nobody chants that, either by choice or by edict -- and yet the crowd is as loud as all get-out and the student section is intense and in-your-face.

In fact, the common rule of thumb for a lot of student sections is that the BS chant simply demonstrates a lack of wit on the part of those who use it.

Don't equate the family-atmosphere thing and the lack of vulgarity by the students with a lack of noise, intensity, or ire directed at opposing players and/or refs.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Howlinwolf on January 28, 2006, 01:34:39 pm
I've already posted pointedly on this subject. Any yahoo can chant an expletive. It's unnecessary, unbecoming, and unoriginal. Equating bursts of "BS" with  fan enthusiasm is just plain faulty logic.
Those fans who stand out from the rest are full-throated and clever. If they're college fans, esp. at SCIAC schools, then act like it, and distinguish your college from the supposed masses that can't find other words to express their support (or displeasure).

Nice shot of Betty on front page of D3 Hoops.


Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on January 28, 2006, 02:47:06 pm
With few exceptions, SCIAC games are not "family affairs" - there is little to no support from the communities.  The reasons for this are varied and numerous...What fans are there are made up of students, faculty/staff, and some parents of players.  That's about it.  Few small kids, etc.

Not a value judgment, just a statement of fact.

If the SCIAC games are not "family affairs," then why does Redlands have games titled "Bring a kid to a game night," or why does CLU have youth basketball games at halftime???  If you were ever to go to another conference game other than PP vs CMS, you would see that the communities are in attendance at SCIAC games.  Regardless....the BS chant is unwarranted....always.

And for once....I agree 100% with Sager.....excellent posts/opinions.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on January 28, 2006, 02:53:01 pm
We'll have the game tonight at 7.30 at oxybroadcast.com.  Both teams better bring it.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on January 28, 2006, 02:55:33 pm
"Doesn't matter how many Lloyd averaged last season.  12 ppg in PP's system equates to about 20 in everyone else's. "

Then Jeremiah Martin would have averaged 45 ppg in 2000/2001 somewhere else?  Didnt he avg 18-20 ppg for 2 years???  What about Eric Lund in 1997 (MVP) who averaged 8 ppg...guess he was the best player in SCIAC that year too.  Or what about FoSheezie...he was MVP that averaged 9 ppg???  You are right....the MVP in SCIAC does designate the BEST player in SCIAC.

I am not knocking Lloyd's importance to that PP team, his versatility take so much pressure  off Beron and Knowles and gives them that 3rd scorer which they desperately needed for SCIAC, but in regards to last year.....he was not the BEST player in SCIAC regardless of his MVP award.

I think Coach Kats is a good enough coach, that if he has a guy that has the capability of averaging 20+ pts, he finds a way to make it happen.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 28, 2006, 03:16:44 pm
Guru, your missing the system aspect run by Kats.  No player is ever featured.  I would guarantee that Kats wouldn't trade Lloyd for anyone else in the conference AND that Lloyd would get 18 ppg for Oxy.  It boils down to shots.   Difficult for a player in that system to consistently put up lots of shots.  Can't argue with the results, Kats dominates the conference.  They should have put a picture of him on the front page and not Betty.   Performance against Amherst by Betty brought him a lot of attention and until CMS he has backed it up.  It didn't seem to me that he did enough in that game to influence the game in other areas.  Thankfully for Oxy, Phillips brought it as did the Euro and Oxy's perimeter D.  PP has 3 guys tonight who all could be MVP but will play for the W and not to put up numbers.  Should be a great game.  Heck, you have to love that we got a photo on the cover of the Site.  X factors are Oxy's Euro and WB.       

DJ, I stick with my statement about Lloyd out of conference.  Kid has had opportunities but fades away.  He should have one more chance this year to either lose the title as the worst big-game out of conference SCIAC stud or solidify it. 

That squeaky sound you hear may be the tightening of cheeks at the Rock.   

 



 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on January 28, 2006, 03:20:54 pm
Guru, your missing the system aspect run by Kats.  No player is ever featured.  I would guarantee that Kats wouldn't trade Lloyd for anyone else in the conference AND that Lloyd would get 18 ppg for Oxy.  It boils down to shots.   Difficult for a player in that system to consistently put up lots of shots.  Can't argue with the results, Kats dominates the conference.  They should have put a picture of him on the front page and not Betty.   Performance against Amherst by Betty brought him a lot of attention and until CMS he has backed it up.  It didn't seem to me that he did enough in that game to influence the game in other areas. 

If no players are ever featured....then why has Knowles taken 175 shots, Beron at 220 and the next highest is Porter with 68....nah...they dont feature their players.  I guess Evan Flagg....who starts....is handcuffed by Kats.

http://www.physical-education.pomona.edu/mens/basketball/stats/2006/teamcume.htm#TEAM.IND
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on January 28, 2006, 03:29:36 pm
All things considered....tonight's game should be good.  I hope to make it as the CLU/Redlands track meet is too far.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 28, 2006, 07:35:56 pm
I just checked out The Daily Hen Sports Update, and found these disturbing entries, among others:

"Alex Lloyd scored 19 points and Ed Wexler-Beron added 16 points as the Sagehen's held on for a 65-62 win over Cal Lutheran."

"David Knowles led all scorers with 24 points and six assists as the Sagehen's defeated the Leopards of Le Verne 77-66."

Attention: Editor! Sagehens. La Verne. Geez, did someone from Redlands write that copy?

OxyBob

Don't you mean someone from Redland's?   :D

I might be at Oxy for the game tonight (I still haven't decided); if I come, I'll be wearing a "Wooster" sweatshirt.  Look me up if you like; I'd like to meet you.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Eye of da TIGER on January 28, 2006, 08:23:36 pm
Well its time to put the women and children to bed ......... cuz we are ready for Oxy vs Pomona!!!!! My boys and I are pregaming right now and I'll tell you what the student body is coming out to support its #16 team in the nation.  Tonights crowd is going to be loud, crazy and extremely CLASSY!!!!!!  Good luck to Pomona cuz they are stepping into the Tiger den.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 29, 2006, 12:33:41 am
The Pomona fans evidently chanted "Safe-ty Schoo-ool" at the Oxy fans tonight.  :D That's a much more clever cheer than "Bullsh--."   

Oxy hangs on to win, 53-52.  Maybe Whiner will agree that the Tigers are the current favorites now.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 29, 2006, 01:03:39 am
The few PP fans in attendence were clever but I felt like the OXY fans got it going right back against them!  Great win for the Tigers, both CMS and PP will be tough games on the road.

Good luck next week OXY!

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on January 29, 2006, 01:06:13 am
"Safety School" was usually reserved for CMC...
What's up with the 'Hens offense this year, is Lloyd still not 100%?  And what's with the report of no working game clock?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on January 29, 2006, 01:33:44 am
I was lucky enough to take in the Pomona/Oxy game tonight and as the score indicated (53-52 Oxy) it was a very close game.  I'll go ahead and actually say that Pomona played a better game overall than did Oxy. Without the GREAT game of Connor Whitman, Oxy would have lost by 5-10 points.  In addition to the clock being out and a very old substitute put in play, the referees were not at the top of their game tonight. 

I'd say for the most part the calls were bad on both ends, but there was one play specifically that was atrocious and unfortunately it came to play a very important part in the game.  About halfway through the second half, Kostic caught the ball straight away above the 3-point line with 2 seconds remaining on the shot clock.  He then shot an airball, but one of the other Oxy players caught the ball and completed a reverse layup.  Sadly the clock read "0" while Kostic's shot was in midflight, but because of the clock situation the buzzer was being controlled manually by an Oxy student.  The refs, obvoiusly paying little attention to the game at this point, credited Oxy with the bucket, which I believe put them up by 5 at the time. 

Pomona as usual had a pretty evenly spread offense with Ed Wexler-Beron playing a good game and leading the Hens.  Betty was held in check most of the game, though he did come through with a few big baskets down the stretch.  Gyan Alexander, the lone freshman on the Oxy squad, got significant minutes and though he didn't do much on offence, he was a game changer on defense putting significant pressure on many of the Sagehen guards.

The chants were pretty standard.  The "Safety School" chant was pretty good because the Oxy fans had nothing to return with.  There were a few lower class chants from the Oxy students, such as "You are ugly." Not very clever, but not all that unexpected at a game like this either.

The turnout was great though.  This was a great atmosphere for a basketball game for both teams and really made me want to get back out there on the court with my Sagehens. The away games at Claremont and at Pomona are going to be very tough for Oxy.  I'm starting to feel that this Oxy squad is getting the same breaks that the 2002 team did when they went 14-0.  Something special could be going on in Eagle Rock.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on January 29, 2006, 01:36:56 am
Oh yeah I wanted to add to one of the other debates on this board...the most athletic in SCIAC.

Lloyd has been playing for less than a month and is bound to have ups and downs during his acclimation.  Its pretty sad to see people bash him after he's had 2 significant knee injuries (and surgeries) during his career.  He can still get up. He can still block shots and dunk. He's still a game changer. 

Alex Lloyd as a freshman was one fo the most athletic guys the SCIAC has likely ever seen.  So I'm turning back the clock and giving him the title as most athletic due to what he was and what he still is!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on January 29, 2006, 02:17:24 am
I'm not going to dispute the fact that Pomona may be a "safety" school for some Oxy students...I have a slightly different take on it...read on.

For me, Pomona wasn't even an option as my grades weren't even close to what they required out there off the 210.

For what it's worth, Oxy challenged me academically beyond my wildest expectations and I think I turned out okay.  I have heard a rumor that once you are admitted to Pomona, maybe the workload isn't as difficult as they want you to graduate and keep their #'s high?  I could be wrong, you would have to ask my brother, PomonaAlum. 

I think Pomona and Oxy offer its students (at least when I was in college) two vastly different experiences academically and socially. 

The one thing I do know is that there is no such thing as Leo's Taco Truck anywhere but in Eagle Rock!

A one point win is a one point win.  Apparently, we are so inept at Oxy that we can't even operate a clock.... ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on January 29, 2006, 02:20:25 am
Maybe its time for a rich Oxy alum to donate some ca$h to the athletic department for some much needed facility upgrades. 

I would do it, but since I didn't go to Pomona, I don't know what having $ is like...I only know that having "The Drum" and a one point win feels pretty damn good.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 29, 2006, 02:36:42 am
A safety school is what you apply to to make sure you get into some college somewhere. In case you think you aren't going to be admitted to the places you really want to go.

Mine was St. John's. :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 29, 2006, 02:53:34 am
Don't send my boy to Harvard, the dying mother said.
Don't send my boy to USC, I'd rather see him dead!
But send him to ol' Oxy, 'tis better than Cornell
And rather than Pomona, I'd see my boy in ... Scripps!

We have our own version at NPU:

Don't make my boy a Buckeye, the dying mother said,
Don't send my boy to OSU, I'd rather see him dead,
But send my boy to old North Park ... far better than Purdue,
A fighter for the blue and gold, a Viking through and through.

Every year the male contingent of the NPU Choir sings it as a kickline in the spring concert held at the CSO's Orchestra Hall in downtown Chicago.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 29, 2006, 03:16:28 am
Good insight from the attendees.  I tried to log on for the first 15 minutes of the game and experienced technical difficulties so ran out for a medium-rare filet order.  Thanks for the input those of you who attended.   Haven't seen the stat sheet so I'm going to assume that this win goes to Oxy's coaches & student body.  Getting that kind of big production out of a sophomore (who played some good games last year ), and has been a solid contributor this year but by no means a dominant force, implies that Oxy may have more weapons than folks think.  This clearly isn't just the Betty show.  

Oxy proved me wrong, barely, but nonetheless proved something to this confessed Kats-fan (at least within the confines of SoCal).  I'll also give Betty the nod for MVP (50% of the award anyway).  Home games against CLU (interesting loss against Redlands tonight), Redlands & LV give them an opportunity to continue to improve as a relatively young team (especially at guard).   Snooze on any given night and this thing can shift back to Kats in a hurry.  Still, with PP facing Whittier, Redlands & LV on the road, they too have to avoid the snooze factor.  CMS is looking strong, except for the little payback game for the Hens.  

The thing to remember is that this thing isn't over yet.  It still can get interesting.  Glad to see that the cheeks stayed loose enough at the Rock for the better team to win.  Again, credit to the staff & the student body.  PP brought something and they responded.  

Good creativity by the Hen fans in attendance.  Fear not Tiger faithful, Duke doesn't always win the ACC either and I'm pretty sure most of their students can get into UNC.  Maybe the Oxy football team will bring a big drum and bang on it the entire game to remind the Hen faithful of their football failings.  It would be a nice way of tying the two sports together (winner banging the drum all game long on the hardwood). 

 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on January 29, 2006, 04:27:05 am
For my loyal listeners, I apologize.  My computer just said to me, "you're not going to broadcast the first half tonight."  Tried rebooting several times and finally did a system restore to last Thursday.  Probably more than you wanted to know.

Great game, great atmosphere, though I thought some of the PP students got a little ugly behind me, but nothing too untoward.

It's hard to judge who's good and who's not in a game like this.  It was not aesthetically pleasing but you could tell that both teams wanted the game really badly.

To me, the entire league comes down to who can win at Cal Lu.  They host each of the top 3 in the second half.  Of course, the team between Oxy, CMS and PP that wins on thhe other's floor likely wins the conference, but given the way thesegames went in the first half, that's going to be hard to do.

As for a safety school, I guess just about every school is someone's safety school.  That is, Princeton is probably a safety school for Harvard.  Oxy, though, hardly qualifies as the classic safety school.  I can think of a lot of local schools to which that would apply.

Anyway, the second half is now available in podcast for those that care.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 29, 2006, 05:02:08 am
To me, the entire league comes down to who can win at Cal Lu.  They host each of the top 3 in the second half. 

I think that is an unbelievable call, Cal Lu is always a tough school to play at, Occidental will be ready and believe me their student following will be right behind them!

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 29, 2006, 09:56:13 am
North Park University?! What a coincidence. That was my safety school.

Uh huh. Fifty dollars says you never even heard of North Park until you saw one of my posts. My alma mater is much too obscure to be a safety school.  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on January 29, 2006, 10:21:05 am
My take is that there is probably not a lot of crossover in terms of applications between Pomona and Oxy, or Pitzer and Oxy for that matter.  At least not when I was in school...things may have changed a bit now, but I think the type of student that the schools attract is a bit different too.  Common overlaps with Pomona would places like Stanford, Carleton, Williams, etc...not sure about safety schools - maybe a UCLA or UCSD for someone from CA...as far as academics, you definitely do have to work hard, and like most liberal arts schools, there's nowhere to hide with small classes.  Getting through and graduating isn't that hard, but getting through with a good GPA does take a bit of work.

Only seen Lloyd play a couple of games, back a few years ago (Wexler-Barons Fr year, and it was already apparent that he would be quite good)  Back then, Lloyd was very athletic, and a bit out of control on the offensive end, but you could definitely see the explosiveness.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 29, 2006, 12:22:11 pm
I like to think that the "safety school" chant was meant tongue-in-cheek, the kind of banter that goes on between two academically superior schools.  I can imagine my Wooster compatriots chanting that at their Wittenberg adversaries, but not at Mt. Union; it's a matter of respect.

Speaking of safety schools, somebody tipped off Bill Plaschke to the fact that Caltech has intercollegiate athletics, and he wrote a fawning (if shallow) piece about Roy Dow and the Beaver program, which appears on the front page of today's LA Times sports section:

Humble Pi (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-plaschke29jan29,1,6860576.column?coll=la-headlines-sports&ctrack=1&cset=true)

It's a little condescending, but I'll take whatever exposure I can get.  Of course, you still have to search the page 15 Scoreboard section with a microscope to find a Caltech score (Whittier 75, Caltech 48), and you won't even find the more important Oxy/Whittier score there or anywhere else in the paper... ::)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 29, 2006, 12:44:40 pm
Here's the LTE I wrote to the Times in response.  Since they'll never publish it, I thought I'd at least put it here:

Quote from: David Collinge
Thank you for highlighting the college basketball program at Caltech.  As a devoted follower of NCAA Division 3 sports, I always appreciate it when I see positive publicity for these great student-athletes who understand what intercollegiate athletics are supposed to be about.  However, it is ironic that it would be the LA Times that publishes this story, since your newspaper has practically non-existent coverage of the Div. 3 league that plays in and around Los Angeles, the SCIAC (of which Caltech is a member.)  One has to search today's scoreboard page for the only mention of Caltech's score, and wouldn't even find there the result of the thrilling game for first place in the conference, won by Occidental College, 53-52, over Pomona-Pitzer.  Puff pieces are great, but we'd prefer actual news coverage.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: El Tigre on January 29, 2006, 01:22:28 pm
The chants were pretty standard.  The "Safety School" chant was pretty good because the Oxy fans had nothing to return with.  There were a few lower class chants from the Oxy students, such as "You are ugly." Not very clever, but not all that unexpected at a game like this either.

I post on the football site, but first time posting on the hoops page!

mr_rayburn,
I want to disagree with your statement.  Having sat in the student section for the tigers and assisted in starting most of the chants ... we never began chanting "You Are Ugly."  It was actually the PP fans who began chanting when our cheerleaders game out to perform.  Then later the cheerleaders came back out and they began chanting "Your Still Ugly."  The oxy section has tried to be more classy and thus far has done a good job of it. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on January 29, 2006, 01:47:00 pm
I think that Plaschke's "Humble Pi" piece (link in post 452 above) is great and a must read for those who participate in the "why doesn't Caltech leave the SCIAC" debate.

go tigers
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on January 29, 2006, 02:41:03 pm
Given the alleged academic superiority to which Pomona grads lay claim, I'm sure that they actually chanted "you're still ugly."

 ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on January 29, 2006, 03:01:42 pm
At least Oxy has cheerleaders...if someone ever tried at Pomona, there would probably be candlelight vigils in protest.  Though up until the 50s or 60s, the football team used to weigh and "measure" all of the freshman girls.  How times have changed...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 29, 2006, 03:44:04 pm
I have to say one more time, great win last night for the Tigers.. and good showing by their fans. 

On a side note, John Wooden was at the game last night, front and center.  Too bad we couldn't get him to lead a chant.  :D

Good luck at Cal Tech Tigers, they've made a habit of only loosing by 10 points this year so let's make sure it doesn't get any closer than that.

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 29, 2006, 04:52:48 pm
Was Plascke there, too?  No? 

John Wooden appreciates D3 hoops.  Sparky Anderson appreciates D3 hardball.  Maybe the media should get a clue.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 29, 2006, 05:19:50 pm
Great to see out Board so alive.  For a conference trying to come out of the DIII armpit, the passion on this Board is a sign of things to come.  

Also glad some folks here came on to join me in my quest to get SCIAC Administrations to give a hoot about teams they field.  Oxy has been one of the worst.  The fact that their coaching staff can field a top 20 team, in a conference with an embarrassing past outside of conference, and facing the genuine lack of support from anyone at the school who isn't paying tuition, speaks volume for their abilities and drive.  I tip my hat to them.  

Let me get back on the soapbox:

1.  How hard is it to task an SID with spending 15 minutes writing up a game summary and then another 15 posting it, emailing it & calling in the box score to the LA Times?  What?  Worried about providing this to a men's sport and not the women?  Then do the same thing for the women, they deserve it too.  Not doing those MINIMAL tasks that are part of any college SID's job responsiblities, represents incompetence.  The SIDs at Pomona & Oxy should be embarrassed.  Why don't you two folks care?  Unpaid interns in your positions would care more and produce more.  But SIDs are only as good as their leaders.  Our ADs need to be people who identify clear paths to supporting nationally competitive sports and well-respected Athletic Departments.  Hire the right people, set the right expectations and execute.     
2.  Is it that difficult for the conference to actually do something with the conference Website basketball section?  Last year the SCIAC launched a Website and I was peachy happy.  This year, whoever was in charge must have gotten fired because a total of less than 60 minutes has been spent on the basketball info.  
3.  The word out of Pomona is that Oxy was helped by non-functioning clocks, friendly refs & favorable record keeping (can anyone confirm the accuracy of the final score?  Folks in Claremont aren't sure if the final score shouldn't have been PP by 2?)
4.  I may have figured out why Cal tech is in the league.  Secretly, every SCIAC Admin wants to be able to field a team like Cal tech.  No expectations, kids play just to have fun and get relief from studies, team budgets can be under $10k.  
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on January 29, 2006, 08:13:02 pm
 DJ, Lloyd is a pimp and deserved the MVP last year.  WB will take it from him this year, ala Bush-Leinhart.  Knowles wants it too.  Betty is the better athlete but he hasn't proved in the conference that he is in Lloyd's league as a player.   Betty was an outstanding football player for Oxy prior to joining the hoops team and has already registered at least 2 of the top 10 greatest dunks ever by a SCIAC player.  Stepping away from football has clearly opened up his game.  Having said that, Betty's performance against CMS prevents me from jumping on his bandwagon yet.  We'll see whether he has the mental fortitude and poise to put himself on Lloyd's level. 

Is he on the same level now?  17 pts on 7-14 shooting  and 8 rebs against a zone vs. Lloyd's 9 pts on 4-13 shooting and 4 rebs?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on January 29, 2006, 10:12:49 pm
WestCoastWhiner writes:  "Also glad some folks here came on to join me in my quest to get SCIAC Administrations to give a hoot about teams they field.  Oxy has been one of the worst."

That may have been true the decade of the 90's, aka the "Slaughter Era" but it has not been true since then.  The past president, Ted Mitchell was a great friend to athletics and attended many contests in all sports.  The current interim president, Kenyon Chan is continuing in that tradition and is an even more enthusiastic fan.  The administration that has been in place since 1999 has been very friendly to athletics.

I think that the performance of Oxy's football and basketball programs in those years is self- evident.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on January 29, 2006, 10:47:43 pm
Having sat in the student section for the tigers and assisted in starting most of the chants ... we never began chanting "You Are Ugly."  It was actually the PP fans who began chanting when our cheerleaders game out to perform.  Then later the cheerleaders came back out and they began chanting "Your Still Ugly."  The oxy section has tried to be more classy and thus far has done a good job of it. 

I didn't want to really say anything further on this subject, but couldn't let this just pass.  You are flat out wrong about the "you are ugly" chant. I was sitting on the Oxy side and heard it clearly directed at a specific Pomona-Pitzer player.  Let's end it at that.

I did not hear the Pomona fans chanting that the Oxy cheerleaders are ugly, though I wouldn’t put it past them.  I think it’s funny that any schools in the SCIAC have cheerleaders at all.  I know Pomona doesn't and that is not necessarily a bad thing.  It's pretty sad when everyone in the crowd has to hold their breath when the cheerleaders do a routine and hope that no one crashes to the floor.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 29, 2006, 11:13:54 pm
Guru, you were right about Betty.  I'm on the bandwagon.  He obviously influenced the game in other areas last night and that is what the great ones do.  If he shows up on the road in the 2nd half of league (something he didn't do last year), as promised, I'll change my name to Betty for All-American.  Little things make the difference.  Whether Oxy can win it and then avoid the whipping at UPS all depends on Betty's ability to continue to do the things outside of scoring that help his team win.  

OxyBob, the Hens always reflect Kats, tough kids who play right and always represent the school well.  Having said that, I am sure that losing never sits well with them, considering their conference dominance under Kats.

I'm going to lob a gentle criticism at my boy Kats.  Nobody is better at defense & defensive adjustments.  His achilles heel is a slight unwillingness at the offensive end to make adjustments.   Maybe that is what kills him the most in the post-season.  Give him Oxy's assistants and PP might be going to Salem this year.   Oxy scores consistently against everyone (UNLV, CS Domingues, Azuza P, Amerst).  Lloyd would have been posted up against smaller men in the Oxy system and Oxy's cheery assistant would have yelled some friendly suggestions to Knowles to stop jacking up so many treys.

Sabertooth, Oxy's football & hoops programs are getting it done in spite of apathy up and down the chain in the Administration - starting with the AD and running to the President.  If the Admin is so friendly to athletics why is the gym falling down and amongst the worst in the SCIAC; why do the coaches run around before the game setting up the facilities - do you make them wash practice gear there too?  I've already spoken about your horrible marketing & SID work.  Friendly in what way?  Be thankful Oxy has great staffs in their hoops & football programs because without them, Oxy wouldn't be much different than Cal tech.  

Folks need to understand that getting to Salem requires turning some of this apathetic, just try to be competitive in conference crap on its head.    
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on January 29, 2006, 11:25:09 pm
I don't know much about CLU's loss at Redlands, but my best guess comes down to the fact that the Kingsmen are so young this year and made too many mistakes of the variety that "the system" depends on.  I expect a very different outcome when the Bulldogs come to Thousand Oaks.

I also agree with the notion that winning at Cal Lu may be the key for Oxy/PP/CMS as they try to win the conference.  It has not been unusual in recent years for CLU teams to beat at least two of the three at home.  The Kingsmen strike me as the kind of team that would love to make a difference in the conference race, these games provide the perfect opportunity.

For the record, I once had some very insensitive PP fans infer that the only thing a CLU degree is good for is flipping burgers.  The nerve  ;D  I'm enjoying watching the Oxy-Pomona rivalry ratchet up - from my perspective they're both great schools.  I was thrilled when CLU got the chance to join a conference with the likes of Oxy & Pomona and leave behind the GSAC (Cal Baptist, Vanguard, Point Loma, APU; standard GSAC pre-game prayer: "Dear Lord, help us smite the heathen Lutherans upon the hardwood without incurring any injuries...")   Oh well, enough said and back to work...

Hey, buddy, you want fries with that?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on January 30, 2006, 01:23:53 am
The refs for Saturday night SCIAC games are consistently average, at best.  Listen to TigerSports on his broadcasts and he will give you his two cents about the Wednesday night refs vs. the Saturday night refs.

As far as our lack of admin support, I can only hope that that has changed since when I was there (Slaughter Era).  If you didn't know this about Slaughter...who can blame him, he came to Oxy from the University of Maryland and the Len Bias tragedy...would you be supporting athletics if a scandal had just blown up in your face?

Now that I am here in STL, and I have said this before, the SID at Wash U does an amazing job preparing pre and post game notes.  They have full PDF versions available on their website prior to the game and links to post game reviews a few minutes after the final buzzer.  I can only speak for Wash U, but I'm sure most other top notch D3 schools/conferences are just as competent.  Maybe Mr. Holmes needs some help in Eagle Rock. 

Visit STL and see all the NCAA banners hanging from the Wash U rafters...mostly for women's sports, but the entire operation is wonderful.  They even have cheerleaders whom the crowd holds their breath for, not for their looks but also for their lack of skill. 

I can only say this so many times, it's time for our conference to step it up.   I'll admit, the gym at Oxy is a sad excuse for the #16 (and hopefully moving up) team.

It's late, forgive me.  I still love Oxy, I just wouldn't get married there  ;)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 30, 2006, 01:38:41 am
>>OxyBob, the Hens always reflect Kats, tough kids who play right and always represent the school well.  Having said that, I am sure that losing never sits well with them, considering their conference dominance under Kats.<<

You're the one who brought up the clock, the referees and the scorekeeper as reasons for Pomona's loss, not me. None of those excuses kept Pomona from winning the game last night.

OxyBob

You should use the quote function. All you have to do is hit the quote button on someone's post. Then you need to make sure you don't type your own post inside the two {quote} tags.{/quote}
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sagecock on January 30, 2006, 04:04:39 am
You're the one who brought up the clock, the referees and the scorekeeper as reasons for Pomona's loss, not me. None of those excuses kept Pomona from winning the game last night.

OxyBob

I'm going to have to call you on that one.  No one is denying that Oxy played a hell of a game, but to deny that the officiating had nothing to do with it is a cop-out.  In a 1-point game, a blown call does in fact change the game.  The lack of a call on the shot-clock violation was terrible.  2-points right there that go the other way, PP walks away with the victory.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 30, 2006, 04:08:45 am
Shouldn't have let it come down to that.

If either school had bothered to post a box score of this game I might be able to point to other things that could have contributed to the final result. But alas, neither school has a box up. Oh well.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on January 30, 2006, 08:22:53 am
Quote

I'm going to have to call you on that one.  No one is denying that Oxy played a hell of a game, but to deny that the officiating had nothing to do with it is a cop-out.  In a 1-point game, a blown call does in fact change the game.  The lack of a call on the shot-clock violation was terrible.  2-points right there that go the other way, PP walks away with the victory.
Quote

Though I was not at the game, I am sure there were a few blown calls which hurt both teams.  In a one point game, a lot of variables come into play.  If Oxy made a few more 1+1 foul shots, the game would have turned even more in our favor.  If, that's the operative word.

As far as the scorekeeping and clock, nobody is denying that it is horrible for something as important as the clock to go out in a game of that magnitude.  The clock doesn't even go out in the high school games I coach, and believe me, I am talking about low-level high school basketball.

Maybe Chan or other administrators were at the game and were embarrased by the failures.  From the looks of it, we had a full house on Saturday night...hopefully someone was paying attention, maybe Jon Wooden?  ;D, and will realize that the entire gym needs to be remodeled...

We shall see what happens in Round 2...@CMS and @ PP.

For now, be weary of Caltech next.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on January 30, 2006, 08:26:33 am
Shouldn't have let it come down to that.

If either school had bothered to post a box score of this game I might be able to point to other things that could have contributed to the final result. But alas, neither school has a box up. Oh well.

I don't know what it takes for Oxy to do this.  I say, hire a work-study student who loves sports and have them do this for them.  I'm sure Oxy spends a lot of money on glossy promotional brochures highliting the beatuiful campus, etc directed at it's prospectives...This, right here is free exposure!  You would think after you guys put Betty on the front page they'd show you some love (and respect) and call/fax/email a box to you.

Maybe someone important trolls these boards...then again, I could be dreaming/screaming about the same things year after year.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 30, 2006, 10:24:47 am
http://www.physical-education.pomona.edu/mens/basketball/stats/2006/P-P-OXYY.HTM

here's the box

I suppose the thing that made the difference, and only Rayburn has brought up, is that Connor Whitman looks like he absolutely dominated from outside.  In a game where both teams struggle to score 50, he drops 25.  That's domination...and I don't care how on fire he was, it's pretty inexcusable for someone to hit 6 three's in a game that low scoring.  You might want to put a body on him in the zone and tell your guards that he's a shooter.  Even if he hits 2 deep ones with a hand up, you can't give up 6...come on now.

He drops 25, Betty drops 17, and that's it...that's all the scoring they could muster...but yet, it's enough since PP continues its horrible offensive production this year.  If there's only 2 scoring threats, and one's a shooter, how do you not force the ball out of his hands or force tougher shots?  Maybe someone who was there can tell me if he was Kobe-like, cause I just don't see how that can happen. 

The next thing that jumped out at me from the box (aside from horrible free throw shooting from both sides) is that Hollo took only one shot (and missed) in 27 minutes.  That's just not going to cut it, regardless of the reasons why it happened.  It seems like Hollo's struggling a little bit this year, after being one of the better big men in the league the past few years.  At 6'8" and the D3 level, he can be a valuable asset, just like he has been in the past.  Wasn't he a 2nd teamer last year?  Definitely need to get more shots and production out of him in 27 minutes...especially in a game that close


Anyway, congrats to the Tigers for defending home court.  PP will have to take things one game at a time and hope for some help, but Oxy has some tough games coming up so the race is far from over.  Also, despite the board being dominated by Oxy/PP talk, CMS is quietly looking very strong...with only their own close call loss to Oxy.  Plus they host the next match up...but of course, there's the PP rivalry game before that.  Regardless, a great race right now with Oxy, CMS, and PP leading the way, and CLU looking to play spoiler
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on January 30, 2006, 12:02:58 pm
Thanks for posting the link to the box, hyphen.  I'm amazed that the two teams were a combined 12 of 28 from the line - and without Knowles 4 for 4 effort they would have been 8 for 24 (an amazing 33%). :o

I haven't looked at any other Oxy box scores - are they always in a pretty strict 7 man rotation like the one Newhall used Saturday?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on January 30, 2006, 12:50:43 pm
Of course one play does not make or break a game.  There are 50 other plays in a game that could have gone one way or the other to affect the flow and outcome at the end.  That being said it is unfortunate in a game of this magnitude when there are certain plays that are clearly blown and in retrospect might have caused the game to flow a bit differently.  Pomona has been shooting free-throws TERRIBLY this season.  Had they been able to hit a respectable 70% during this game they would have pulled it out. 

It looks like Pomona has about 3.5 consistent scorers.  David Knowles and Ed Wexler Beron are always going to be threats on the offensive end.  Alex Lloyd has been the third most consistent threat since coming back from early season knee surgery. The other scorer I saw on Saturday was David Brown.  He too is coming back from an early season injury (broken ankle I think) and made some clutch shots during the game.  If all 4 are clicking Pomona should win if only 2 of 4 are on then it'll be a very tough game.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on January 30, 2006, 01:41:00 pm
New Question:

I'm curious how many of the posters on this board actually played college basketball and if so at what level (and school). 

I played D3 for Pomona (if you didnt already know that).
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 30, 2006, 01:49:03 pm
The officiating NEVER decides the outcome of a game.  The game's outcome is decided by the two teams, and how they play given the environment in which they play.  Officiating is part of that environment.  If it's raining, you run more and pass less.  If the wind is blowing out, your rely more on your sinker to induce ground balls.  If the refs are not calling fouls underneath, you play more aggressively in the paint.  How you deal with the conditions presented goes a long way towards determining whether you win or lose.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on January 30, 2006, 02:22:25 pm
New Question:

I'm curious how many of the posters on this board actually played college basketball and if so at what level (and school).

I played at CLU...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 30, 2006, 03:05:21 pm
New Question:

I'm curious how many of the posters on this board actually played college basketball and if so at what level (and school). 

I played football at Occidental
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on January 30, 2006, 03:09:15 pm
Oswald or Eye of Da Tiger,

A few pages back, someone mentioned bringing "The Drum" or its equivalent to the game in Pomona...and beating it the entire game.  You think either one of you could arrange for that?

I don't know if the refs would have a problem with a drum beating the whole game (or at least when Pomona has the ball), but it would be funnier than any cheer Oxy or Pomona could come up with.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 30, 2006, 03:32:32 pm
Unfortunately, artificial noise makers are a violation of NCAA rules... just ask us Wheaties, who aren't allowed to use sheets of metal, to simulate our mascot, the Thunder.  :'(
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on January 30, 2006, 03:37:08 pm
Whether you played or not doesn't make any difference in defining the quality of your posts.  You either know the game or you don't.  

My Hope JV teams would have a few SCIAC banners.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 30, 2006, 03:54:11 pm
P.S. to PC: I knew about the quote feature. My posting style is habit.

Well, when you do it this way we don't always know who you are quoting or how to find the original post. Quoting the way the software is set up provides both.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on January 30, 2006, 05:47:42 pm
Hey WCWhiner - I'm not saying that non-players can't contribute to this chat. I was just curious how many of the talking heads on this board have actually been through a SCIAC season or even a game like the Pomona/Oxy or PP/CMS games. 

Talk away.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: old_hooper on January 30, 2006, 06:28:55 pm
New poll out and Oxy has climbed to #12.  They are now the highest ranked team in the Western Region.  They still have not lost to a DIII school yet.  Next couple weeks will be interesting and if they can win out which I think they have the talent to do, the seedings for tournament may have them in a very intersting position.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on January 30, 2006, 07:02:06 pm
OXY #12, Puget Sound #13...I am a little surprised that OXY jumped over UPS this week...that gap could get wider with UPS playing their next 4 on the road, and OXY getting Cal Tech and LV this week. 

Good chance to see OXY host another tourney game; but their work is not done with the three hardest conf. road games still ahead.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on January 30, 2006, 07:10:49 pm
i played at Pomona-Pitzer...kinda  :D.   at least i had courtside seats for every game
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on January 30, 2006, 08:11:29 pm
Oswald or Eye of Da Tiger,

A few pages back, someone mentioned bringing "The Drum" or its equivalent to the game in Pomona...and beating it the entire game.  You think either one of you could arrange for that?

I don't know if the refs would have a problem with a drum beating the whole game (or at least when Pomona has the ball), but it would be funnier than any cheer Oxy or Pomona could come up with.


I'd love to, but like it was mentioned noise makers are against the rules.  That and those who've had the pleasure of seeing the drum know, sorry P-P players, its really old and fragile.  So beating on it for a basketball game wouldn't be a good idea.

Congrats to the #12 Occidental Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on January 30, 2006, 09:57:02 pm
It's too bad Pomona's best FB teams in the last 10 years or so occured when they were out of SCIAC for football.  Then admissions standards get tightened in a power struggle with the admin, the team goes back into SCIAC, go figure.

As far as Kat's offense, reminds me a bit of a Big 10 team like Wisconsin or Indiana. A lot of movement, a lot of screening, not a lot of quick shots or individual play.  Depends more on system than individual...When it's clicking, it can be really good, but it can also be really ugly.  He's had some really good wings and some good guards, but not necessarily a dominant big guy.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on January 31, 2006, 01:57:34 pm
It's too bad Pomona's best FB teams in the last 10 years or so occured when they were out of SCIAC for football.  Then admissions standards get tightened in a power struggle with the admin, the team goes back into SCIAC, go figure.

PP football teams were "good" because they were able to schedule the weakest teams in D3.....Colorado College, UPS, Lewis and Clark, and Oberlin(??)...and not having to worry about a conference schedule.  Masters College experienced this in basketball when they went from independent to the GSAC.  They were able to schedule patsies, then only have to get up for 1 big game every 2 weeks.  Now they dont have time to rest as they have a big game every night.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on January 31, 2006, 04:54:18 pm
New Question:

I'm curious how many of the posters on this board actually played college basketball and if so at what level (and school). 

For the record, I was a legend at Cal Lu. I think my coed intramural 3 on 3 team won two or three championships  ;D

It is interesting to know who played and where, so thanks for asking.  And while I think it's interesting I tend to agree with WCW.  There are insights unique to having played the game in the SCIAC, but that does not make it an essential requirement for making a valuable contribution to this board.  I do enjoy the comments from those who have recently played in the conference, and I also enjoy the takes of some of the longer term observers as well.  It's a good mix.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on January 31, 2006, 05:01:34 pm
PP also had some very good teams then with Jack Ramirez at QB - my memory is a bit hazy, but a couple of years the team lost only 1 or 2 games - close one to Asuza Pacific one year, Trinity in another.  There were a number of patsies like Colorado College or Oberlin, but also played a lot of the SCIAC teams with blowout wins over CMC, etc.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on January 31, 2006, 06:42:35 pm
Is Oxy's #12 national ranking the highest EVER for a SCIAC team? My SCIAC history is not as strong as it is for some of you. 

I gotta love the press (front page of d3hoops) that this is getting the league, but sad to say if Amherst was not on their schedule and at the time undefeated, Oxy would just barely have broken into the top 25.  Moot point I suppose. I wonder if they'll jump into the top ten after victories over a tough Cal Tech team and a homeless La Verne.  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on January 31, 2006, 08:35:18 pm
Ok Bob. My point was to say that without beating a solid east coast team, they wouldnt have gotten the resepect that they have and that they deserve. I wasn't knocking them at all, but there have been other very good teams, how about the 2003 Oxy team that went 14-0, that have not risen as quickly or as high as this year's team.  In fact, I'm gonna go ahead and say that 2003's undefeated team would beat this years team.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on January 31, 2006, 09:13:43 pm
Ok Bob. My point was to say that without beating a solid east coast team, they wouldnt have gotten the resepect that they have and that they deserve. I wasn't knocking them at all, but there have been other very good teams, how about the 2003 Oxy team that went 14-0, that have not risen as quickly or as high as this year's team.  In fact, I'm gonna go ahead and say that 2003's undefeated team would beat this years team.

I think you may be right.  Finn and Song were amazing.  We'll see how this team stacks up in a few more weeks.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 31, 2006, 09:29:45 pm
Is Oxy's #12 national ranking the highest EVER for a SCIAC team? My SCIAC history is not as strong as it is for some of you. 

The short answer is 'YES.'
The D3hoops.com poll has been in existence since the beginning of the 1999-00 season.  In that time, Occidental is the only SCIAC team to be ranked.  The Finn-Song ("I can't seem to forget you/Your Finn-Song stays on my mind" ;D) team of 2002-03 was #14 in the final poll of that season.  The following year, the Tigers reached the bottom of the poll twice in midseason.  This year's Oxy squad has now been ranked in four consecutive polls, and the current ranking of #12 is the high-water mark, both for Oxy and for any California-based D3 team.  Cal Lu, CMS, P-P, and Redlands have received votes (as have Chapman and, once upon a time, UCSD), but none have as yet cracked the top 25.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on January 31, 2006, 09:45:59 pm
Is Oxy's #12 national ranking the highest EVER for a SCIAC team? My SCIAC history is not as strong as it is for some of you. 

I believe that CLU's team in 94 or 93 was ranked in the top 10.....and maybe even #1 with a 19 game win streak.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on January 31, 2006, 10:32:36 pm
Ok Bob. My point was to say that without beating a solid east coast team, they wouldnt have gotten the resepect that they have and that they deserve. I wasn't knocking them at all, but there have been other very good teams, how about the 2003 Oxy team that went 14-0, that have not risen as quickly or as high as this year's team.  In fact, I'm gonna go ahead and say that 2003's undefeated team would beat this years team.

I agree, rayburn.  I think a lot of voters in other regions remain sceptical about SCIAC schools unless they've beaten a traditional power from outside the west coast.  I think it's equally fair to say that Oxy's football win over Concordia in 2004 did much to boost their ranking in 2005.  Not saying the rankings were undeserved, just throwing out a little support for rayburn's "half baked scheme...

I haven't seen this year's Oxy team yet, but they don't seem as dominant as the 2003 version.

David:  Your killing me softly with finn-song ;)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Howlinwolf on February 01, 2006, 01:51:07 am
2003 Tigers line-up was stronger, I believe, but perhaps not quite as deep as the current squad. For those with good memories, you'll remember that squad didn't necessarily dominate in individual SCIAC games, but they had the gumption to run through the conference undefeated. There were a scad of close games. The win at Redlands was one of the most improbable ever - down by 30, and leading only once, at the game's end.
The difference between '03 and '05 is the dimunition in the quality of the conference. It isn't as strong, top to bottom, as it was three seasons ago.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2006, 02:57:13 am
Ok Bob. My point was to say that without beating a solid east coast team, they wouldnt have gotten the resepect that they have and that they deserve.

If they had beaten a Top 10 team, regardless of where said school was based, it would have done the same.

What you guys probably don't realize is that there is very little support for Amherst as a Top 5 team. There were multiple voters with Amherst in the teens. If this were two years ago and Amherst had gotten off to that start, they'd probably have been No. 2, getting five or six first-place votes. But Top 5 status notwithstanding, most were not sold on Amherst. That's why they dropped so many slots despite losing a tight game on the floor of a quality opponent 3,000 miles away.

Occidental, to that time, had beaten whom exactly? La Sierra twice, Pacific Union twice. Lost to Azusa Pacific, but that only proved they were not as good as APU (no surprise there).

Beating Whitworth alone would have gotten Occidental on the road to the Top 25.  Beating Amherst made it happen, but so would have beating Puget Sound, or even Trinity (Texas).
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 01, 2006, 09:19:30 am
Since I don't think Oxy will be playing Trinity (TX) or UPS any time soon, we'll have to take what we can get in terms of our home wins against a slightly overrrated (at that time) Amherst and Whitworth.

All is moot if Oxy wins out in Round 2 of SCIAC play, which I think they are definitely capable of.  Road games at CMS and PP back to back towards the end of the season will have a great deal of importance as to who represents our league.  Perhaps PP, CMS and Cal Lu will beat up on eachother before that time.

X marks the spot on our backs.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 01, 2006, 12:44:02 pm
Folks are jumping the gun here.  Oxy hasn't won ANYTHING yet.  We are all grateful for the well-deserved (from the Left Coast at least) national recognition.  I'm glad the Oxy fans are jumping on the board.  But keep in mind that Claremont & Pomona both are eagerly awaiting rematches at their place.  In the latter look for 25 points from Knowles &  19 from Lloyd.  PP will get CMS back for the whipping across the street and then be in a position to beat Oxy to possibly force a playoff.  That assumes Oxy can beat all of the Big 3 on the road.  History would seem to argue that they won't be even to win any of them, let alone all 3.  And that my friends, would mean what I have been saying all along, look for Kats to hang another banner.

Oxy did what it was supposed to: beat Redlands on the road, beat Whittier, beat LV, then hold down the home court against the Big 3.   Now comes their opportunity to show that they actually deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the '03 Oxy squad.  But anyone at the PP or CMS games will tell you that they need to put in some work before that happens.  I'm on the Betty bandwagon and he can get them there.  But he'll have to do it by getting 12 boards, 5 assists, 3 blocked shots & 12 points, not 25 points.  Those teams are both too afraid & smart to play him straight up.  Scoring 25 against double teams will play right into their hands. 

Sometimes its tough to be in the driver's seat. 



 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 01, 2006, 03:05:22 pm
You crack me up, Bob.  Either you've got me pegged as a straight up Oxy hater (which I'm not - but I could be in denial) or you just have an excess of anti-Cal Lu venom you need to get out of your system and I provide you the opportunities to do so...

You're right - I'll have a better idea regarding the quality of this year's Oxy team after they come to Thousand Oaks.  But for now I'll stick to my opinion that a team that holds on for two close wins at home against CMS and PP is not quite as strong as the Oxy team I recall from 2003 that handled everybody in the conference (both home and away), including a CLU team that was much stronger and more experienced than this year's version.  I may well be wrong, I'd love it if this year's Oxy team proved to be better than the 2003 team and went deeper into the post season.  I just think it's still open for debate.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 01, 2006, 03:24:58 pm
Wow OxyBob......
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed....or didnt get any last night....RELAX!!!!!!!!!!!

Scandi is one of the most supportive SCIAC posters, who just so happens to have ties to CLU, and he certainly doesnt ridicule any SCIAC team like you have done.

Heaven forbid, if he were to say that he doesnt think this year's team is as talented as a team that went to the Elite 8.  If you are to bash someone bash the voters who still have Amherst ranked higher than the tigers.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 01, 2006, 06:24:40 pm
OxyBob just blew a fuse.  He'll be good.  Hoovian & OxyB are SCIAC fans at the end of the day. 

But let me bring you folks down to earth.  Having watched my boys at Hope play this year & Oxy/PP, there is still a big talent gap between the SCIAC & the elite in DIII.  Look at the background of most of the players at Hope and even the hated Calvin.  These schools are going after all-state & all region players.  I like some of the talent in the SCIAC but top to bottom there really isn't much of a comparison.  Take a look at Hope's gym and tell me where you would go if you got a letter from a SCIAC school.  And that doesn't even touch W S-P, who even in a down year may be able to field a team with their 10-15 folks who could compete at the top of the SCIAC. 

From what I can tell Alexander, Zach Miller from CLU, Slade from PP and Gipson from WC are the 4 best freshmen in SCIAC.  Nothing against them, but in other leagues these guys would either not get minutes or be on JV.  I loved what Alexander &  McBride did to the over-hyped guard at Amherst and they definitely can D, dribble & pass, but to be Salem-type players they need a year or two of making 100 3s a day.   

I'm not sure how the SCIAC can bridge the gap.  I think that it always has a handful of guys who would do well in even the best DIII conferences.  But it isn't getting out of the cellar until the talent discrepancy is addressed.   

OxyB, this year's Oxy team has had a great year.  We are all fans.  But before you put them in the Song, Finn, Keheo-something camp, let's see what they can do on the road.  Those fools were straight ballers. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 01, 2006, 07:36:21 pm
I'll stick to my opinion that a team that holds on for two close wins at home against CMS and PP is not quite as strong as the Oxy team I recall from 2003 that handled everybody in the conference (both home and away)

not that it really matters, but if i remember correctly, that undefeated Oxy team won those two PP games by a combined 3 points.  I might be off on that, but they were definitely very close games...so this year's team winning close ones vs. CMS and PP isn't really that much different than the path the '03 team took
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 01, 2006, 09:21:49 pm
I'm pretty sure Wooster has a 100% graduation rate, and they send a fair amount of their players to graduate school.  (The highest GPA in last year's graduating class belonged to our starting center, a math major, and the point guard is going to finish in the top half-dozen or so this year.)  And no Wooster player has ever gone to the NBA as anything other than a spectator.  And we have delusions of D3 grandeur. 

Bob, I think what you quote Coach Newhall as saying is true for a great many D3 programs, including many who compete for the national title.  Running an academics-first program is not an institutional barrier to success.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 01, 2006, 10:06:57 pm
Well said, David.

I can't confirm that IWU has a 100% graduation rate, but I am sure it is awfully close to that if it isn't!  Likewise, we don't send players to the NBA (except Jack Sikma, before we joined d3!), though like Wooster, I'm sure, we HAVE had players continue bball careers in Europe or elsewhere.  But we send FAR more players to grad school than to any professional league.  (AND, of course, playing professionally does not rule out grad school (or law school, med school, etc.) after the career is over.)

But your point was that academic excellence and bball success are NOT mutually exclusive (especially at the d3 level), and in that you are absolutely correct.  Using high academic standards as an excuse for failure to compete athletially is a cop-out.  (Not that anyone was doing that directly, but several posts seemed to hint at it.)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on February 01, 2006, 11:15:18 pm
It would be interesting to see the academic profile of hoops players in the SCIAC, NESCAC, UAA and some of the other conferences.  Like has been mentioned here before, I think some of the Midwestern schools with good academics may have some inherent advantages over the SCIAC schools in keeping good players/good students close to home.  Then you have the likes of Emory, Wash U, etc - with a lot of $$$ and a large enrollment...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Skander on February 01, 2006, 11:19:44 pm
11
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 02, 2006, 12:42:01 am
Final from Pasadena:

Oxy 80
Cal Tech 66

An unfortunately close game against the Beavers, but Oxy's lead was never in danger.  I might have a biased view, but I thought the officiating was terrible.  Either way, a win is a win.

Home game vs. La Verne for the Tigers on Saturday.

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on February 02, 2006, 01:10:22 am
It seems like Cal Tech is actually getting better.  They have played the top 4 conf. teams somewhat tough at home this year; losing by avergae of 13pts.  What happened to the 30-40 blowouts each night?  Maybe it is just that the players have a hard time to get up for a game against the beavers.  Whatever it is teams better beware becuse the techies will win a game sometime, I am just not sure when.  Maybe when LV and Whit go to CT on the last week of the season?  Doubtful.

CMS beat CLU by 10. :(

Also, #6 and #11 go down in close games tonight.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 02, 2006, 04:43:21 am
I also went to the game out at Thousand Oaks.  Tough choice between that game and PP/Redlands, but I decided to make the long haul in hopes that it would be a more competitive game than it actually was.  I also wanted to see a game in that gym one more time, since apparantly it's being replaced after this season.  Taylor was money as usual - CalLu had no answer for him.  For whatever reason the student section was all over Miles from the opening tip, which did not do the Kingsmen any favors.  The game actually was not as close as the score indicated, IMO.  Had Borengasser been able to make his lay-ups, it would have been closer to twenty.  He seems to psyche himself out occasionally.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on February 02, 2006, 11:36:07 am
Pomona over Redlands 118-87.  Doesn't look like Wexler-Baron played.  Pomona didn't attempt a 3 all game.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on February 02, 2006, 11:59:45 am
PP hits over 74% from the field; needless to say I don't think the Redlands system is working.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on February 02, 2006, 01:18:20 pm
I'll start it here...Jordan Carlson (Cal Tech) for 1st Team!

15 pts. against P-P
24 pts. against CMS
21 pts. against La Verne
29 pts. against Oxy

The last person I remember getting on any level of All League from Cal Tech was Jonathan Bird who I believe was 2nd Team a few years ago.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 02, 2006, 01:22:18 pm
I only caught the last 10 minutes of the CLU-CMS game (it was tied when I got there but CMS quickly started to pull away), and the one thing I would add to Bob and KC's astute observations is that CMS' size and quickness on the perimeter made things very tough for the Cal Lu guards down the stretch.  I was very impressed with the Stags defensive intensity.  The kinds of offensive opportunities the Kingsmen took advantage of in wins over LaVerne and Whittier were non-existent down the stretch.

The refs really let them play on both ends, so the style of play was fairly physical.  I'm curious, was this also the case in either of Oxy's games w/ CMS or PP?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on February 02, 2006, 01:24:09 pm
I think one of the Oxy women a few years ago was named MVP, even though her team was in last place.  This kind of thing would never happen in D1.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 02, 2006, 03:16:58 pm
Amen Ypsi & Collinge.  The SCIAC Admins all fake the funk, trying to hide behind a commitment to academics as an excuse for athletic apathy and nominal/token support for athletics.  That position is offensive to every other NCAA DIII institution.  Furthermore, it is just plain wrong.  To compete nationally the SCIAC doesn't need to throw away admissions standards or screw up their budgets.  Balancing budgets is always difficult, and with limited resources difficult decisions have to be made.  I think every SCIAC Administration is being short-sighted and missing the value proposition of athletics. 

Look at the great ink the Oxy football team got this year in LA.  For an institution clinging to being a 1st tier U.S. News & WR school, having the LA Times run a feature on it, while referencing its 'elite' academics & special atmosphere, is worth more than any $250k marketing campaign their Admin could spend.   It was great for potential students, alums, had to make faculty & existing students feel pride, and undoubtedly boosted the school's profile.  In 2003 the Oxy men's team brought similar high profile positive press for Occidental. 

From hearsay I've calculated that outside of PP, every SCIAC school spends between $50-$100k less than Amhert, Williams & Wooster, not to mention Wash U and their conference counterparts.  I'm not talking about public schools, just private liberal arts institutions.  I don't think that comparison would be fair. 

Finding that money isn't impossible at any SCIAC institution.  If you are too afraid of the internal political implications of simply re-directing funds to athletics then direct some heavyweight fundraising efforts to athletics.  Other schools find the money and not everyone who does has an endowment like Amherst or Williams. 

My view is that those SCIAC schools that want to continue to pay for a head coach and give peanuts outside of that to their programs should seriously consider moving to the club sport level.  Otherwise the SCIAC will always present to the nation second-rate athletic programs.   And second-rate anything at institutions striving for excellence should be unaccepted.   Oxy, CMS, PP, CLU, Whittier, they all seem to treat athletics like something that allows them to check a box in the balance of power game.  "Well, we compete in the NCAA."  If they take that approach to athletics it is easy to understand why SCIAC institutions are slipping in national rankings.  Such strategic short-sightedness & indifference to third tier perceptions can't be isolated to only athletics.     

And let me preempt anyone who would throw out Oxy's football & basketball success as a response.  Sources tell me that each of those teams has great coaches who have found creative ways to do more with less.   I'd be willing to bet good money that out of the top 25 teams right now, all of them but maybe 1 have bigger basketball budgets than Oxy.   Same goes for Oxy's football program.  I have to believe that Oxy's football budget fell somewhere in the bottom half of the schools in the final top 25 pool. 








Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 02, 2006, 04:19:26 pm
OxyB, your comment suggests that you buy the line that a liberal arts school has to lower its standards to compete nationally.  That excuse is nothing more than a subterfuge for deeper institutional issues.  Nobody else in DIII accepts it and you shouldn't either.  Williams, Wooster & Amherst are all higher ranked than Oxy and have a commitment to elite athletic programs.   Pomona should be embarrassed that it hasn't had a trip to Salem.  CMS should be committed to rising up the basketball chain as fast as their school did up the national rankings in the past 20 years.  Redlands & Whittier should realize what a great differentiator having national-level athletic teams would give them.  CLU should use the momentum of the new facilities to create THE west coast athletic powerhouse.  La Verne should stack the deck and then try to run the table like Stewart tried.  And CT, they should host the best intramural tournament in the country. 

 

 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on February 02, 2006, 04:24:01 pm
I'll put forth a few things on the academics "vs" sports issue at hand.

1)  The NESCAC schools are obviously located in New England, an area that is sports-mad.  Quite a few of those schools have built strong sports traditions.  My guess is that the average student at a Williams or Amherst is more of a "sports fan" than the average student at a Pomona or Oxy.  Having visited both Williams or Amherst, they were more traditional almost prep-school like...and indeed, New England and the Mid-Atlantic has a large share of prep schools that probably send a lot of their kids to the "Little Ivies."  These prep schools, like Groton, Exeter, Andover, Lawrenceville, Peddie etc are great academically - but, they also stake a lot of their repuation on their sports prowess.  If nothing else, their alumni demand it.  So, in a sense, the NESCAC schools athletic programs may be an extension of this prep school mentality.

2)  The SCIAC schools suffer from being in a terrible area for sports - both collegiately and professionally.  There is too much else going on.  My experience at Pomona was that a large number of local students would head home for the weekends, while others would head to San Diego, Vegas, Joshua Tree, etc.  There are very few other small, liberal arts colleges in major metropolitan areas.  Swarthmore and Haverford come to mind as exceptions, and their sports programs are nothing to write home about.

This is not to say that it's the way it should be, just my perspective.  It always amazed and dissapointed me that the library could be more crowded than the gym on the night of a big game, but it's the truth.  It's not something that can be changed overnight, and it's a bit of a chicken-egg kind of thing in terms of attracting high caliber student athletes.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: RFB on February 02, 2006, 04:39:53 pm
Redlands basketball has had many good athletes in the program over the years, the problem is the coach. Gary Smith is a good guy and very knowledgable in the game of basketball. But he should have handed off the program fifteen years ago. I am confident that bringing in a new coach and a traditional basketball system would do wonders for Redlands basketball. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on February 02, 2006, 05:17:42 pm
WestCoastWhiner:

The east coast schools you reference have vastly bigger endowments.  Oxy's annual giving is only now reaching the same level as Claremont and Pomona for the same reasons that athletics faltered in the 90s . . . no financial support . . . if you don't invest in your alumni, the alumni won't invest in you.

At any rate, perhaps you've forgotten, or never knew, that Oxy put a million dollars last year into a new football field and and press box.  Oxy just broke ground on a new dorm.  The next big athletic expenditure will be a new pool and hopefully a student fitness center.  There are lots of areas at Oxy that require investment, not just athletics.

Athletics gets its due at Oxy, and has since Slaughter left.  But its "due" is in proportion to the resources available in an in light of all of the competing interests and constituencies of a small, liberal arts college.

If you want to have a gym named "WestCoastWhiner" and have a few million bucks laying around, I can put in in touch with the right people.

And to a different query from a different poster, no, I didn't play basketball . . . football and rugby were my college sports.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 02, 2006, 06:38:12 pm
SaberApologist, the moves you mention by Oxy seem to be mandated balance of power moves that were a decade coming.  Oxy's field was no longer in the top half of the conference.  Its weight room is still in the bottom tier.  I have no doubt that the track is fine because the school would be crazy to ignore  historically how a quality track gets them 'fringe' benefits by being so close to downtown (ala Olympics use).  Without those moves Oxy would have worse fields than Pomona, soon to be Cal Lu, CMS & arguably Whittier.  Tough stuff to accept for the SCIAC's historical football heavyweight.  Pitzer & Scripps might start to rival you pretty soon, and all they have are some grassy fields.   Oxy's pool & gym are falling apart.  Your weight room is still rumored to be as good as La Verne's.  Student fitness center?  Welcome to something other schools grasped in the 90s.  I'd guarantee that something that seemingly insigificant has tipped the balance in favor of some other school for some applicants. 

I'm glad Oxy is starting to invest in its people & facilities.  But hurry up because you have an elite-level basketball coaching staff, good momentum in two big sports & your alums are coming out of the woodwork - an indication that people care.  Your window won't be open forever. 

And Wooster has a bigger endowment than Oxy?  Shocking.  What the heck have you guys been investing in?  Beach front real-estate in Arizona?  Back in OxyBob's day Oxy used to have a nice endowment. 

But I'm not arguing for new facilities.  Too big of a leap.  Plus, PomonaAlum brings up some great points, no SCIAC school will ever support a facility like Hope has.  But how about Oxy and other SCIAC schools at least find $25k in the annual budgets for their basketball programs.       

      

     
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 02, 2006, 06:49:26 pm
To my mind, there are lots of reasons why SCIAC teams don't compete on a national level in football and basketball, and most of those have been expressed on these pages.

1.  There is virtually no coverage in the mainstream media.  I suspect that Linfield's and Whitworth's exploits at least get an article in the Portland and Spokane papers whereas here it only happens if the team never loses or never wins.  There is also no radio coverage of any teams other than UOR football (though CLU and Oxy do internet broadcasts  ;D).  I don't think this is anyone's "fault" as there are dozens of sporting events on a given weekend night in LA that have crowds of 300 or so.  (That said, the the SID's could do a better job of getting the word out.)

2.  There is a great deal of competition for the athlete here that is not quite good enough to play at the D-I level.  For football, there are about 30-40 Jucos around, and scholarships offered from APU.  For hoops, there are about 6-8 D-II schools around, 8 NAIA schools (that's 80 scholarships for non-DI players just in NAIA).

3.  The lack of coverage and location in a major metropolis also contributes to an apathy among students and administration that leads to a lack of an expectation of excellence in athletics which causes programs to "settle."

4.  Last, I'm not sure anyone outside of this board really cares about national recognition on the DIII level.   Most of the fans at the game and the less than ardent supporters don't get bent out of shape if their team doesn't compete at a high level.  Does anyone at Pomona, other than a few people, care that Kats has flamed out of most of the tournaments he's been in? 

In short, I think "commitment to athletics" is way down the list of culprits as to why the SCIAC doesn't compete nationally.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: The Roop on February 02, 2006, 07:02:56 pm
Ahhhhhhhh. There speaks my close personal friend OxyBob. You knew I'd have to "give it back" at some point.

Did "your day" involve a loss in the 1980 Regionals to a team from the midwest by chance ??
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on February 02, 2006, 07:56:19 pm
'SaberApologist?"

Geez, I thought that providing accurate information was something of use to folks who wish to banter . . . at least so that people can offer offer informed comment.

OxyBob . . . are you old enough to remember coach Lefler?

sabretooth
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sagecock on February 03, 2006, 12:54:29 am
OxyB, your comment suggests that you buy the line that a liberal arts school has to lower its standards to compete nationally.  That excuse is nothing more than a subterfuge for deeper institutional issues.  Nobody else in DIII accepts it and you shouldn't either.  Williams, Wooster & Amherst are all higher ranked than Oxy and have a commitment to elite athletic programs.

I don't think you can dismiss the notion of standards entirely fromt eh picture however.  While there certainly are elite academic institutions that also have elite level athletic programs, there are only a limited number of athletes who can meet those standards.  Amherst and Williams do an excellent job of attracting many of those athletes, however, they have some advantages over SCIAC schools such as slots.  If you can guarentee a kid he's going to be admitted a week before that kid will hear from a SCIAC school it makes for a pretty tough decision.

I will admit there is a fundemental lack of committment to athletics at many of the SCIAC schools, however, I honestly the academic component plays a far greater role then you're giving it credit for.  Anecdotal evidence: Colin McNeil and Derek Turbin's first choice?  Pomona.  Did either one of them get in?  No.  Academics make a difference, to claim otherwise is ignoring the evidence.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 03, 2006, 02:51:04 am
Sage, does it feel good being in the female canine seat to Amherst & Williams?  Or, do you take the approach like Bowdoin & Swarthmore that what happens in athletics is insignificant?  I know that you wouldn't be posting here if the complete whipping that Amherst laid on the Hens at Oxy didn't sting.  Win a banner this year and you'll still ask Katz this summer, "Coach, congrats on another great year.  But what HAPPENED against Amherst???"  Let your feelings known that when in Rome, we have to act like Romans, not Beavers.  There is no nobility in spankings. 

Pomona's problem is that you have been blessed with too good of a coach.  His SCIAC success has lulled an already apathetic administration into believing that their system works and is fine.  No need for slots.  A couple of Admission wins now and then at Pomona, a couple here and there at Pitzer, and Kats is reloading with some banners.   

I think Pomona will eventually be forced to rethink its approach to this issue.  It won't be another perra feminino slap to Amherst, Williams, or some other top 10 competitor.  I think the change will be forced by some other SCIAC school deciding to really invest in their program.  Oxy keeps knocking on the door.  CMS has some ballers too.  One of those Admins is going to jump on the bandwagon.  Let Oxy or CMS have some real success in the Tourney, get great press about being elite liberal arts schools with serious students and student-athletes who are amongst the best in the country, and folks who never cared at Pomona will start to care. 

         
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 03, 2006, 09:22:12 am
I believe that Oxy is already beginning to get that "good" press by way of its football and basketball teams.  Though Oxy may not be on the academic level of Pomona, I don't think the school makes any apologies for who and what it is. 

It will always be difficult for small liberal arts colleges on the west coast to compete with the east coast/new england schools.  I believe that my brother (PomonaAlum) and I are the ONLY students ever to leave our prep school in Maryland and head west.

I have several friends who work in CA high schools and they seem to think that the trend is for top-notch west coast kids who want the liberal arts experience to head east to schools like Williams, Amherst, Bates, Bowdoin, etc.   

Being here in St. Louis now, it makes me wonder how a school like Wash U competes for those same students.  The campus here definitely has a distinct east coast vibe with a lot of NY/NJ kids.  Athletically at least, I have to believe that Wash U gets a few "slots", no?

A side note...Apparently, a new wireless scoreboard and shot clock system was approved by President Chan and will be installed shortly.  One step at a time.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on February 03, 2006, 09:41:42 am
I read somewhere that Pomona was about the embark on a renovation of the Rains Center.  Not sure what it all entails.  To me, a nice facility, but on the sterile, institutional side.

I do know that it's a constant tug-of-war on between admissions and the athletic department to get kids into school.  Part of the problem at Pomona is the "success" of the school in terms of applicants, test scores, etc - and to be sure, it's a great institution.  However, this success on the surface may limit the institutional appetite for changing the formula to include a higher profile athletic program.  As long as the students and alumni are happy with the academics, there will be little push for change.

In terms of endowment, Pomona really lags its peer schools - there's really a lack of ability to "think big."  On the other end, Wash U recently embarked on a $1.5 billion fundraising campaign, which they completed early and went over the goal easily.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 03, 2006, 11:56:35 am
Whiner has been plugging Hope's new facility so I went to their website to take a look.  Here's a link to a great panoramic picture from opening night:

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/announce8.html

It takes a while to fully load - but it's worth the wait.
There's some other good pictures in a "dedication photo gallery" as well.

FWIW the new Cal Lu facility will have a similar feel.  I don't think there's going to be seating behind the baskets - which would be fun - but the practice gym is in an entirely different room which eliminates the need for the huge curtain.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 03, 2006, 12:31:56 pm
(http://www.hope.edu/img/fieldhouse/05ddevosconstruct145.jpg)

I mean, who wouldn't be jealous of such a fine facility?  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 03, 2006, 05:03:22 pm
Whiner has been plugging Hope's new facility so I went to their website to take a look.  Here's a link to a great panoramic picture from opening night:

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/announce8.html

It takes a while to fully load - but it's worth the wait.
There's some other good pictures in a "dedication photo gallery" as well.

FWIW the new Cal Lu facility will have a similar feel.  I don't think there's going to be seating behind the baskets - which would be fun - but the practice gym is in an entirely different room which eliminates the need for the huge curtain.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT....that is dope as ****!  First off, tight picture...the 360 was great.  Secondly, look at the fan support...the only thing I've seen close to that in SCIAC is CMS/PP.  Third, that facility just looks great.  Some Oxy fan should get on the photoshop job and change all the "Hope"s to "Oxy"s and email it to the administration.  That's what they should strive for
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 03, 2006, 05:32:59 pm
I agree, hyphen, the fan support is awesome.  Great student turnout and a lot of multi-generational community support.

After further exploring the Hope website I need to make a couple of corrections to me previous post.  Apparently Hope can seat upwards of 3,000 for basketball, so the sideline seating at the Cal Lu gym (my understanding is capacity will run about 2,000) will have fewer rows in addition to the aforementioned lack of seating behind the baskets.  Also the facility behind the curtain at Hope is not a practice gym but instead a somewhat dedicated volleyball venue.  I say somewhat because it likes like they can set up hoops there as well if needed.

I wonder what they're cooking up at Calvin?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 03, 2006, 07:14:11 pm
That is a pretty sweet picture.  DJ, you're right about photoshop, but what if we just sent the picture in as it is...wouldn't that make any administration drool over what could be?

I was looking for some people of color in the picture  ???
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 03, 2006, 08:07:18 pm
Funny thread here: http://d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=121 about overworked SIDs.  I have one thing to say to all of those SIDs, "Guys, send your resumes in to the SCIAC."  You will make less, but your 50 hour workweeks will be things of the past.  Try 5 hour work weeks.  And demanding bosses, productivity, attention to detail, fughit aBout it.  Just show up when you want.  Go to the pool, catch some rays, read a good book, relax a bit. 

 



Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 04, 2006, 10:10:29 am
I'll start it here...Jordan Carlson (Cal Tech) for 1st Team!

15 pts. against P-P
24 pts. against CMS
21 pts. against La Verne
29 pts. against Oxy

The last person I remember getting on any level of All League from Cal Tech was Jonathan Bird who I believe was 2nd Team a few years ago.


I'd have to agree.  Any other opinions on mid-season all-conference teams? I think mine would be as follows:

Player of the (1/2)Year:  Sam Betty, OXY

1st Team:
Miles Taylor, CMS
John Parsons, CMS
David Knowles, PP
Ed Wexler-Baron, PP
Aaron Gibson, WC
Jordan Carlson, CTU

2nd Team:
Zach Phillips, OXY
Connor Whitman, OXY
Manny Maceira, CMS
Alex Lloyd, PP
Chad Acerboni, CLU
Amir Mazarei, UR

MVP would be Taylor if CMS had beaten Oxy.  Noticeably missing is Greenlee from La Verne - he's been having a down year.  Hopefully he can pick it up in the second half.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 04, 2006, 10:25:17 am
My bad on last post. I keep wanting to call  Marcus Gibson "Aaron" (looks like someone I know).  Maybe first team a little much - he definitely looks like best freshman player I've seen in the SCIAC for a while, though.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2006, 11:39:15 am
There are very few other small, liberal arts colleges in major metropolitan areas.  Swarthmore and Haverford come to mind as exceptions, and their sports programs are nothing to write home about.

There are a lot more of them than you think in D3. New York City has dozens of D3 schools within an hour's drive of the city limits, and an entire league based within it. Boston, likewise, has D3 schools thick on the ground. Cleveland, Washington, Philly, Baltimore ... you name it, they all have small liberal arts colleges. St. Louis has an entire D3 league named after it, with about half the schools in the metro area proper and the other half out in the southern Illinois cornfields not too far away. The Twin Cities are home to over half of the MIAC schools. Chicago has about a dozen D3 schools either in the city proper or in the suburbs, and the only one of them that isn't a small liberal arts college is the University of Chicago.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2006, 11:58:06 am
To my mind, there are lots of reasons why SCIAC teams don't compete on a national level in football and basketball, and most of those have been expressed on these pages.

1.  There is virtually no coverage in the mainstream media. 

That excuse doesn't fly, because virtually no D3 schools get mainstream media support -- unless you're talking about the media in rural areas or in small cities. Some schools in the latter environment get nice, regular coverage in their local papers, often with a specific beat reporter dedicated to them (Wooster, Hope, and Illinois Wesleyan all come to mind, because their supporters on Posting Up often link to the stories in those papers, but I'm sure that there are others). But if you're under the impression that a major metropolitan daily or a big-market TV station outside of SoCal covers a D3 school or schools regularly, think again. Chicagoland-based schools are lucky just to get their line scores printed in the agate in the Chicago Tribune or Chicago Sun-Times, and I can count on one hand all of the sports features focusing on a D3 school that have appeared on an evening newscast here in the Windy City -- and I was around for three of North Park's five national championships.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2006, 12:13:23 pm
I wonder what they're cooking up at Calvin?

Calvin has no need to keep up with the Van Joneses as far as competing with Hope's new facility is concerned. The Knights play in a beautiful 4,500-seat fieldhouse right there on the Calvin campus. In fact, it was the site of the D3 men's basketball Final Four for a bunch of years back in the eighties and early nineties.

I was looking for some people of color in the picture  ???

The lack of black players and/or students in some MIAA schools has been a chronic source of discussion in that conference's Posting Up room over the years. As far as fans go, however, there isn't exactly a substantial number of African-Americans in western Michigan outside of Benton Harbor from which Hope could draw fan support. Holland, MI, where Hope is located, is only 2.5% black, according to the last U.S. census. The local minority, as in a lot of small midwestern cities, consists of recent Hispanic immigrants who work in local factories or do unskilled labor. They make up between a fifth and a quarter of Holland's population -- and I doubt that a lot of them are much inclined to be big Hope men's basketball fans.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on February 04, 2006, 06:11:18 pm
Great stuff Sager; you really know your hoops!

The top three SCIAC teams should walk away with W tonight; PP has the toughest game @Whittier.

Nationall tonight:  #1 vs. #2; #4 vs. #6.  I'm sure that the Hope facility will be rocking tonight.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 04, 2006, 06:55:15 pm
Thanks Sager - maybe I didn't look hard enough but I had a hard time finding info on the Calvin facility on their website.

I'm looking forward to watching the ever improving Beavers tonight at Cal Lu - I'd love for them to break the streak, just not against the Kingsmen  :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 04, 2006, 07:41:53 pm
Good points, Sager, especially since I sacrificed explanation for brevity.  If you're in a major (i.e., top4-6) metro area, you will get no coverage.  However, if you are in a smaller, though still major market (i.e., one or more pro teams, like Portland), you will get at least some mention on page 5.  Cal Lu and Redlands are outliers in this league and they get some coverage and it might not be a coincidence that they are league powers in football.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 04, 2006, 07:43:47 pm
Don't forget to listen tonight to oxybroadcast.com.  Hopefully, my computer cooperates  :-[
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on February 04, 2006, 10:10:29 pm
SCIAC schools are basically small, liberal arts schools.  All D3 schools don't necessarily fit that bill....

Baltimore has Goucher, what else - maybe Villa Julie?  Hopkins is not a small, liberal arts school.

As for St. Louis, Wash U is about as far from a small liberal school as there is.  There's Webster, McKendree and a couple others, but nothing much of note.  So, there's UChicago, but again, a bit research university.  Same with Emory, Carnegie Mellon, Rochester, etc...in the UAA.

Bates, Bowdoin, Colby, Williams are all in small towns.   Tufts isn't a small, liberal arts school.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 04, 2006, 10:29:54 pm
Small liberal arts schools in major metropolitan areas, just off the top of my head.

Cleveland: Oberlin, Baldwin-Wallace, John Carroll
Chicago: North Park, Elmhurst, North Central, Wheaton, Aurora
Atlanta: Oglethorpe
St. Louis: Webster, Fontbonne
Memphis: Rhodes
Columbus: Capital, Otterbein, Ohio Wesleyan

There's plenty more...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stag4Life on February 05, 2006, 01:14:54 am
CMS defeats Redlands 128-70.  Redlands' lowest offensive output in at least 5 years(longest I could check back).  Mani Maciera led the Stags with 30 points and dunked on a Redlands player so hard and high that he actually looked like Tracy McGrady out there, it was unbelievable.  Miles Taylor also contributed with 15 points, 15 rebounds, and 13 assists, can u say MVP? 

Occi was upset by La Verne at home tonight so the Stags and Occi are now tied in first place, should make for a very interesting final six games in the SCIAC.

GO Stags!

-- Stag4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 05, 2006, 01:51:19 am
An interesting score out of Eagle Rock.  Just by listening, it appears the Laverne shot the ball extremely well. 

This tightens things up considerably in the league.  Now, does Oxy drop out of the Top 25?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2006, 09:05:13 am
Nah. It usually takes two bad losses in a week for a team to drop as many as 10 spots, let alone the 14 it would take for Oxy to drop all the way out.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 05, 2006, 10:24:41 am
Wow, that La Verne-Oxy score is definitely a surprise.  I went to Whittier  thinking that would be the only competitive game on the schedule.  It was a great game, played in front of a VERY small crowd.  There were probably less than 75 people in the stands.  Pomona could have put the game away in regulation, but poor free-throw shooting by Hollo and Lloyd kept the Poets in it.  Whittier's guards also came up with some clutch 3's when they really needed them.  Lloyd carried Pomona for most of the night - Wexler Baron wasn't a factor and didn't seem to get many touches in regulation.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 05, 2006, 12:17:29 pm
CMS defeats Redlands 128-70.  Redlands' lowest offensive output in at least 5 years(longest I could check back).  Mani Maciera led the Stags with 30 points and dunked on a Redlands player so hard and high that he actually looked like Tracy McGrady out there, it was unbelievable.  Miles Taylor also contributed with 15 points, 15 rebounds, and 13 assists, can u say MVP? 

Occi was upset by La Verne at home tonight so the Stags and Occi are now tied in first place, should make for a very interesting final six games in the SCIAC.

GO Stags!

-- Stag4Life

Welcome to the board!  It's nice to have a CMS poster in the room...

I'm not surprised that CMS held the Bulldogs to such a low total, as I mentioned previously they looked very tough defensively against the Kingsmen.

I am very surprised that LaVerne beat Oxy in Eagle Rock.  Maybe the Leos just had a real tough shooting night in Thousand Oaks, but they appeared to be having some serious offensive problems against the Kingsmen.  It's not a done deal but Oxy's loss seems to put CMS in the driver's seat - they hold home court against the Tigers and even a loss to PP at the Rains center leaves them in a tie for the title.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 05, 2006, 01:59:25 pm
The Oxy-La Verne game was a surprise to a lot of us, La Verne shot the ball extremely well.  Knocking down big shot after big shot. 

The Tigers will have to regroup and run through the teams they play for the remainder of their schedule.  I still don't think we've seen this Oxy team playing at it's full potential.

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 05, 2006, 04:30:16 pm
With Pomona losing at Whittier, it looks like they are pretty much out of the race.  The Oxy-CMS game should determine the champion but it looks like Pomona could still affect the outcome with home games against both teams.  Also, many spoilers remain that could throw the whole SCIAC for a loop as Whittier and La Verne did last night. 

Does anyone have any more info about the two upsets and how they happened, perhaps some box scores.  Here is the CMS-Redlands Box Score if anyone was interested: http://cms.claremont.edu/team/men%27sbasketball/05-06/UR-CMS.HTM

Also, did anyone else see the dunk that Mani Maceira had last night, I think it was by far the play of the year in the SCIAC.

-- Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 06, 2006, 01:41:36 am
Betty posterized a Redlands guy, but it's hard to rate dunks based on descriptions. 

PP now has three losses.  They need a stumble by Oxy or CMS plus a home sweep of those two AND a win at Cal Lu.  Not impossible but I'd rather be Oxy or CMS.

Oxy did not play badly.  Brought their B game.  Laverne has unbelievable talent; I would say their talent level is mid-level GSAC.  However, they just can't seem to put anything together, losing against smart, tough opponents.  They're a lot like the Cal teams in the Bozeman era.  Interesting to see what role they play down the stretch, especially given that they may get some real home games.

Agree that CMS is in the driver's seat and Taylor is my MVP (sorry, WCW, call it man crush, if you will).   CMS will have a toughie at PP, but so does Oxy.  The game at Ducey, before about 41 CMS diehards, will likely decide the whole thing.  Hate to hate, but my dough is on CMS.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 06, 2006, 03:07:38 am
So, I know this is premature, but, I've been sitting here trying to figure out how many playoff games Oxy might be able to host. (with a QOWI like theirs, and their in region record, they have a great chance at a Pool C, even if they totally fall apart for the rest of the season)

One major factor is gym size... and I can't find this information at all for Oxy. How many people does Oxy's gym hold?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 06, 2006, 04:24:51 am
The game at Ducey, before about 41 CMS diehards, will likely decide the whole thing. 


Are you trying to talk sh*t or something.  I guarantee that CMS will have just as many fans, if not more, then Oxy had when CMS visited them.

-- Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 06, 2006, 10:10:28 am
  Laverne has unbelievable talent; I would say their talent level is mid-level GSAC.  However, they just can't seem to put anything together, losing against smart, tough opponents.  They're a lot like the Cal teams in the Bozeman era. 

having played with some of those dudes over the years in open gyms, I've always thought the same thing.  La Verne's had some good athletes and quality players, but they generally get torn apart by better coached teams.  The flip side of that equation is that every now and then, their talent comes out to shine and they can knock off one of the top tier schools.  They've even done fairly well nationally, even though they lose most of those games (not unlike most SCIAC teams though).  I remember a PP game a few years ago where La Verne absolutely shot the lights out and pretty easily beat one of the better teams of the past 5 years.  Of course, in the end, they seem to finish around .500 every year
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 06, 2006, 12:48:06 pm
So, I know this is premature, but, I've been sitting here trying to figure out how many playoff games Oxy might be able to host. (with a QOWI like theirs, and their in region record, they have a great chance at a Pool C, even if they totally fall apart for the rest of the season)

One major factor is gym size... and I can't find this information at all for Oxy. How many people does Oxy's gym hold?

Oxy hosted a playoff game against Aurora a few years back, so their gym clearly meets whatever standard the NCAA requires.  (Presuming, of course, that the scoreboard clocks work.)  I don't know what the capacity is, but they have a full set of bleacher stands along both sides of the court, maybe 25 or 30 rows high?  No seating behind either end line.  It's not huge, but it's big enough, and it's quite an atmosphere when it's full.

It would help Oxy's case if Chapman were to get a Pool B.  (I haven't been paying attention to the Bumblin' B's, so I don't know if this is possible.)  The NCAA's aversion to travel might lead to a Southland Sectional if there's two local teams available.  Throw in  the one NWC representative, probably UPS, and maybe a Texas team, and you have one of those Friday/Saturday opening quartets.  That'd be big fun!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 06, 2006, 12:56:29 pm
Dang, my boy Kats was tagged.  I'll give it up to the Poets and the Leopards.  I expected both of them to get at least 1 W against the Big 3, and Whittier is becoming something of a thorn in PP's side.  Either PP's kids don't bring it against them or the Poet kids refuse to give the Hens deference on the court.  Either way, the Poets continue to have some success against the King of the Hill.  Wow.  Look for the Hens to treat their CMS game as their defining moment, their NCAA Tournament game.  More is at stake in that game than the 5 college campus bragging rights.  Too many winners on that team for them to want to go down on the books as such a huge disappointment.

La Verne may have brought it but Oxy's recent cheek tightening undoubtedly contributed.  Oxy has been suffering from having a target on their back (the Big 3 coming after the new kid on the block getting more national attention than they ever did; the bottom 3 coming after them to show that national attention or not, it is still just Oxy, not PP, CMS or CLU & most importantly, the Oxy players starting to fall in love with themselves and forgetting the type of work and focus it took to get them there in the first place).

CMS moves into the driver's seat.  Even with an L at PP, it looks like they will run the table.  And until Oxy shows me something, I'm going to say what folks are thinking, even Oxy fans, that the Tigers might not have the mental fortitude of champions.  Call it peaking too early, call it failing to improve, call it players stopping to believe in what the coaches are saying, call it cheek tightening, whatever you want.   I recognize that it is early to say it but the Tigers could very well be done.  CMS is the only team improving week in and week out - and that is the stuff of champions.    

But from a SCIAC perspective I'm a little frightened by that because CMS, like PP, suffers from Big 3-itis, mysterious illness that causes excessive cheek tightening out of the friendly confines of So Cal.
 





Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 06, 2006, 05:11:31 pm
Stag 4 Life, I was talking sh*t.  I was at the last two Oxy/CMS games at Ducey and though 41 is light and meant for exaggeration (e.g., Keith Richards is 138) it wasn't that much more by any significant degree of magnitude.  The stands were maybe 1/3 full for those games, and that's just the lower ring.   I think just about every poster on this board would agree that the only time anyone piles into Ducey or Voelkel is when they're playing a cross-campus rival.  Now, CMS may have some people pour in for the Oxy game because the team has a chance to dance.   That said, if there was a reliable way to measure things, I'd bet you on your guarantee and call it my "lock of the week" (complete with lock sound effects).   

I've been announcing these games for 7 years now and the best non-playoff SCIAC crowds I've seen were Redlands/Oxy (at Courier) in '04 and Oxy/Pomona last week.  All other roadies (except for maybe one Cal Lu) were very sparsely attended.  We've done a total of six at the CC's and there was never even one that was close to half capacity. 

Bottom line is that the LAST thing a CMS booster should be arguing is that they get great crowd support for a non-PP game.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on February 06, 2006, 05:54:49 pm
New Top 25:

OXY down to #18...UPS #11, Wartburg #23.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 06, 2006, 06:11:18 pm
See you there Bob

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 06, 2006, 07:40:51 pm
Bottom line is that the LAST thing a CMS booster should be arguing is that they get great crowd support for a non-PP game.

I will argue. I do not know how accurate these statistics are, but I found numbers for attendance at the earlier Oxy-CMS game and it was listed at 525 then I looked at the most recent CMS home game for which there were statistics which was La Verne and there were 512 people.  I am not saying we get as much or the most fan support but you should keep your mouth shut and stop talking sh*t.  If your assumptions were correct(theyre not btw), then the Oxy-CMS undefeated battle should have had way more than it actually had and a "non-playoff" "non-crossstreet" game at CMS should have had much less. 

-- Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 06, 2006, 08:44:04 pm
 :D :D :D @ believing the numbers that are put in the box score for attendence...those are NEVER accurate in SCIAC play...hopefully CMS has more people at games these days than I remember, but the fan support there (in terms of numbers) has traditionally been pretty average.  No diss Stagfan, just a fact.  This year, you guys are in the driver's seat though, so get the word out on campus and make sure everyone's behind the squad.


I'll be attending the PP/Cal Tech game on Wednesday and the big rivalry game on Saturday vs. CMS.  I expect my PP boys to come out amped up and it to be a great game...can't wait.  Who else will be in the building?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 06, 2006, 09:40:37 pm
DJ-
I'll be there Saturday night, but first I'll be at Whittier Wednesday to see if the Poets can pull off the back-to-back upsets.  Being a Sagehen fan, you got to be pulling hard for CMS to lose (even more so than usual).  This could be Pomona's best chance at getting back in the SCIAC race.  If Whittier wins and CMS beats OXY next time, PP still controls their own destiny.

I would expect a much more lopsided score when Pomona plays Cal Tech this time.  I think Cal Tech has shown they've improved enough for teams to actually prepare for them in the second round.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 06, 2006, 09:54:22 pm
Stag, you first apparently need to take a course in respectful discourse.  I would think that someone with your educational credentials would not stoop to fourth-grade recess commands.   I never once directed anything like that your way.

That said, you will note that my data came from last year and the year before.  If people are packing Ducey this year, then it's about time because they sure weren't there the last two years.   (And that team sure deserves good fan support).   If that's the case,  it's therefore my mistake for extrapolating last year's data to this year's team.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 07, 2006, 01:48:06 am
Stag, you first apparently need to take a course in respectful discourse.  I would think that someone with your educational credentials would not stoop to fourth-grade recess commands.   I never once directed anything like that your way.

That said, you will note that my data came from last year and the year before.  If people are packing Ducey this year, then it's about time because they sure weren't there the last two years.   (And that team sure deserves good fan support).   If that's the case,  it's therefore my mistake for extrapolating last year's data to this year's team.

I don't think I started the "fourth-grade recess commands."  Your sarcastic comment about "41 CMS Diehards" merely incited me.

Anyways, the fans will be in full force against Oxy and so will the Stags.

--Stags4Life

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sagecock on February 07, 2006, 04:40:21 am
:D :D :D @ believing the numbers that are put in the box score for attendence...those are NEVER accurate in SCIAC play...hopefully CMS has more people at games these days than I remember, but the fan support there (in terms of numbers) has traditionally been pretty average.  No diss Stagfan, just a fact.  This year, you guys are in the driver's seat though, so get the word out on campus and make sure everyone's behind the squad.


I'll be attending the PP/Cal Tech game on Wednesday and the big rivalry game on Saturday vs. CMS.  I expect my PP boys to come out amped up and it to be a great game...can't wait.  Who else will be in the building?

I'll definitely be at the Cal Tech game, though I will not be my normal dynamic self given that heckling Cal Tech is akin to fixing the Special Olympics in terms of moral validity.

Quick note on CMS/PP attendence, if any SCIAC school claims that a third of their student body (outside of rivalry games, i.e PP-CMS, PP-Oxy, etc..) showed up to a game they are clearly lying.  I know what 500 people look like, and it is not the 12 drunk guys in the first row.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 07, 2006, 11:00:43 am
I say let's agree to move past the fan debate.  Bottom line is that outside of PP-CMS, the SCIAC will always have at best mid-tier DIII hoops support.   Everyone here has covered all of the reasons for that and it just has to be recognized that the SCIAC schools have distractions that its cornfed cousins don't have.  Yes, from a hoops perspective you have to be a little jealous.  Watch a game at Hope and you have to get excited about basketball.   Take your two semesters of sun and get good enough to make the lack of crowd support not hurt you.   The SCIAC's big school neighbors in the Pac 10 have made it happen, and nobody is saying that playing in Pullman is like going to Ann Arbor. 

Talent is a cure for Big3-itis.

 

 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Tom Brady on February 07, 2006, 11:52:07 am
I am looking forward to the OXY/Cal Lu game.  I hope the fan support is good from OXY, which I am sure it will be.  The football players at Cal Lu have become fond of yelling things at the other teams players as of late, even refering to them as "Poop".  Even if Cal Lu does pull off the big upset, at least they won't be able to use the dumbest line ever....."Just like Football".  Safe travels to all.  If you look for me, I will be the guy hididng under the bleachers cause I am embarrassed about the gym (but only for a few more months).
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Tom Brady on February 07, 2006, 12:32:22 pm
I am guessing it was a few of them.  They are probably the same idiots that called a kid a "Doushe Bag" and started the "Bull Sh**" chant in a gym that only holds about 200 people.  Smart bunch up this way. ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on February 07, 2006, 12:46:59 pm
I'll be right there with DJ Hyphen at the Pomona/CMS game on Saturday. It really is too bad that Chaz Turner had to quit the CMS team prior to the 2 games against Pomona. Nonetheless it should be a good game. Hopefully the Pomona team that came to play against Oxy will show up against CMS on Saturday.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 07, 2006, 05:00:26 pm
If anyone can do IM's from their phone or send emails from the same, we would greatly appreciate any updates you could give us while we do the WC/Oxy game.   (We will also return in kind reports from our game).  Our contact info is at oxybroadcast.com.  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 07, 2006, 06:33:04 pm
Rick (Tom?)-
I agree - I thought the "Purple Pit" was much more clever and creative earlier in the season.  Lately they seem in need of rejuvenation...  I'm a little disappointed you're embarrassed about the gym - I've found it much easier to think of it as charming and full of character since they broke ground for the new one  ;)

Bob and Oswald-
Glad you guys are coming out to the game.  I'll try and stop by to introduce myself tomorrow night if I get a chance to make it for part of the game.  That is if it's not too hard to make it through the Cal Lu fans storming the court in celebration of a Kingsmen victory ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Tom Brady on February 08, 2006, 12:08:19 pm
Yes Scandi, this is Tom.  I changed my name for baseball season.  Sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 08, 2006, 02:18:55 pm
I know this is outside of the D3 community, but after going to the USC-Arizona game last week at the Sports Arena (which would arguably be amongst the worst gyms in the SCIAC ;) ) I checked out USC's new Galen Center which is scheduled to open next fall.  I think many of you might enjoy taking a look at it.  If you click on the virtual seating diagram link it takes you to an interactive page where you can see interior views from each section.

http://usctrojans.collegesports.com/facilities/usc-galen-center.html
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 08, 2006, 05:20:31 pm
$70M for that fine gigantic facility at SC.  $22M for Hope field house.
$29M for CLU's complex.  $16M for Rains.   LV getting updates.  Whittier needs updates.  Redlands, CMS & Oxy need new gyms.  Capital campaign time folks.  I have to believe that if Hope can pull off a $100M+ cap campaign that those schools can as well.  I'm sure it won't be easy.  Nothing worth having ever is.  

 

  



 
 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 08, 2006, 06:46:04 pm
I am looking forward to the OXY/Cal Lu game.  I hope the fan support is good from OXY, which I am sure it will be.  The football players at Cal Lu have become fond of yelling things at the other teams players as of late, even refering to them as "Poop".  If you look for me, I will be the guy hididng under the bleachers cause I am embarrassed about the gym (but only for a few more months).


ISmart bunch up this way. ;D

Maybe they arent the most creative with their cheers.....but they are smart enough to spell "referring" and have much pride in their gym.  So you can stay under the bleachers!!!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on February 08, 2006, 09:53:05 pm
When the Sports Arena first opened there was an Attendance Sign that changed as fans entered.  I always thought that was cool.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 09, 2006, 12:42:22 am
The score that is posted for the CLU/Oxy game is wrong.....flip the score and Oxy won.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 09, 2006, 12:53:42 am
whats the correct score?
i hope you're right guru!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 09, 2006, 12:56:58 am
ok, made a phone call.  had a little elevated blood pressure....then found out oxy won.  on the front page, it looks as though clu did a good job in posting a press release, they just got the score reveresed, as guru said.

good night from the midwest.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 09, 2006, 01:03:34 am
So for the non-telepathic among us, that makes the final score
Occidental 58
Cal Lutheran 45

Press Release (http://www.d3hoops.com/releases.php?release=45432)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2006, 01:33:34 am
Sheesh. You know, a couple weeks ago we added a confirmation screen to the score posting process, so before the score goes up, you get a look at the score you are reporting, in nice huge type. So if you post a wrong score, it's because you weren't paying attention.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 09, 2006, 01:39:26 am
Saw a good game out at Whittier tonight.  In the end, Claremont's defensive pressure was a little too much for the Poets.  Whittier actually had the ball with a chance to tie at the end of the game, but they were unable to get an open 3 and Miles Taylor blocked the shot.  He once again showed why he's the best all-around player in the conference.  He just seems to want it more than anyone else out there.

Whittier started strong and had the lead much of the first half.  The turning point in the game was with about 4 minutes left in the first half.  Gibson for Whittier was picked as he drove to the basket, then reacted with what the refs called an intentional foul.  A couple seconds later the refs added a technical (not sure if this was on Gibson or the coach) for arguing the call.  Claremont had just gained a 4 point lead, and the four subsequent free throws pushed it to 8.  Whitter never led again, and Gibson was benched from that point until about 9 minutes left in the game.

Scalmanini had definitely become one of the top coaches in the conference, IMO.  He's got his team playing better overall team basketball than anyone else in the conference.  Their defensive intensity is the best I've seen in a while.  Hopefully for Stags fans, they can keep the Scalmanini/Connor Henry combo there a while.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Eye of da TIGER on February 09, 2006, 02:18:32 am
Oxy Bob speaks nothing but the truth.  We only traveled about 22 due to a week filled with sr comps and tests, yet we still had as many students as Cal Lu.  If they even believed that they had the best fans in the SCIAC they are now left off that list.  The only thing their students could respond with to many of the Oxy chants was "You're gay, You're gay, You're gay" and "C*CKIDENTAL!" Good win for the Tigers, and keep it classy out there in Thousand Oaks!!!!

Ps. Oxy Bob we were looking for you in the stands, next time stop by and say what up!!!!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 09, 2006, 02:25:49 am
TIGER and Bob,

I'm with you on a great game.  Oxy's D in the first half drove me nuts, but they sealed up the middle and got tough to take the lead, and keep it, in the second half.

The away mob that came had an awesome time, and had tons of energy... good news is it's one of the last times we'll visit the Kingsmen Thousand Oaks Middle School Gymnasium. 

Congrats to the Cal Lu fans, we now all know that we're "gay" and where we go to school.... thanks for the cheerleaders, they were great.

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: El Tigre on February 09, 2006, 02:34:02 am
Thanks OxyBob ... I wish we could have had more people, but like Eye of da Tiger said there is a lot going on this week.  I mean we had four econ majors that made the trip and have MFATs this Saturday.  Great game from both Cal Lu and Oxy, but as we all know oxy came out on top like they should.  Got a little scared here and there but never lost faith in my tigers.  

As for the Cal Lu/Oxy fans debate ... tonight the award goes to oxy.  We had about half as many people there as they did and was able to over power them the whole game.  They sure do get an E for effort, but between stealing our chants and using less then classy chants they lost some respect.  

Some big games this weekend ... hope everyone comes out in full force because you know oxy will with a home game against the "purple poets!"  See you at the game OxyBob.  Stop by the unofficial officials and say hello.  I will have a large tiger print hat on.

Eat'em up Tigers!


Eat'em up Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: El Tigre on February 09, 2006, 03:10:48 am
OxyBob I know you said you were going to wear a grey Occidental sweater, but by chance were you wearing a black Occidental t-shirt ... because if so I think I saw you.  Hey if you ever want one of our stylish ref jerseys ... let us know!  We will even but OoxyBob as your nickname!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 09, 2006, 03:13:51 am
Eye of da TIGER:

>>Ps. Oxy Bob we were looking for you in the stands, next time stop by and say what up!!!!<<

I was standing up and yelling right in back of you guys the entire game. Nicely done getting the CLU cheerleaders to high-five you as they passed by. I guess that qualifies as a hand job.

OxyBob

Those girls are good at what they do! ;)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 09, 2006, 04:32:49 am
Don't look now, SCIACers, but there's a solid chance that your league could sneak a second team into the big dance via the Pool C route -- in spite of the fact that only one SCIAC team (Occidental) currently ranks among the top hundred teams in D3 in the Quality of Wins Index list that Pat Coleman updates every two or three days.

This is how the NCAA's initial West Region rankings looked when they were released yesterday:

rank, team, regional record, overall record
1. Occidental (9-1, 16-2)
2. Puget Sound (12-1, 17-3)
3. UW-Stout (14-3, 17-4)
4. UW-LaCrosse (16-5, 17-5)
5. Wartburg (16-3, 17-4)
6. Willamette (13-2, 14-6)
7. Carleton (13-4, 16-5)
8. UW-Whitewater (11-5, 15-5)

There isn't another SCIAC team within shouting distance of these rankings. Not only do the other two contenders have inferior West Region records (CMS was 9-5 at the time the rankings were released yesterday, 10-5 now, while Pomona-Pitzer was 7-3, now 8-3), but as I said, neither has a QOWI that's worth a second look.

So, then, what chance does the SCIAC have of getting in a second team, you ask? It's because Oxy is #1 in the region. A number one ranking means that they have some breathing room if they drop a game ... like, say, the game a week from Saturday @ CMS. The Tigers could easily survive a loss in their rematch with the Stags; their #1 ranking in the region rests not only upon their gaudy regional record (now 10-1 after last night's win over Cal Lutheran) but upon their QOWI, which ranked among the top ten in the nation according to Pat's last QOWI list.

And if a win over Oxy is part of a CMS run to the title, with the Stags finishing 13-1 in the SCIAC and Oxy going 12-2, the league's Pool A automatic bid goes to a team that would otherwise have no shot via Pool C (CMS) -- but Oxy would be sitting pretty in the Pool C sweepstakes with a 14-2 West Region record, a high QOWI, and probably a slot in the West Region rankings that'd range somewhere between third and fifth. With 18 Pool C slots available this March, I'd like the Tigers' chances under those conditions.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 09, 2006, 08:27:57 am
I'm looking at possibly being back in LA the first week of March.  If Oxy makes the tournament and IF we are lucky enough to host a first round game...does anyone know the dates of Round 1?

Right now, American has a 198 roundtrip flight from STL-LAX.  I figure, if we take care of business, all's well.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 09, 2006, 11:14:14 am
Sounds like a good win last night for Oxy.  The Kingsmen have impressed me with their ability to hang tough with the top teams in the conference, but again, as was the case against CMS, their youth and lack of depth seem to hurt them during the last 5-7 minutes of the game.  I was hoping it would be a different story when it was still tied with 7 minutes left...

During the parts of the broadcast I caught it sounds like Betty was very impressive - it's a tough assignment to ask anyone, let alone a freshman, to guard him.  I'm sure the Oxy-CMS rematch will be a good one.

As for the "Purple Pit", well, I defended them here earlier in the season but I'm done taking up their cause.  I've seen much worse over the years, but I am disappointed that they've degenerated to the point where they can't seem to figure out that once you cross the line to a place where the best you can come up with is an inference about your opponent being gay you've lost the battle.  It is about being classy, clever and enthusiastic, and on that score I commend the Oxy students who made the trip. 

Despite the loss, I remain excited about what the future holds for this Cal Lu team.  With two exceptions (Bush and Lepiashanski), they're all freshmen and sophmores and they're still playing the top SCIAC teams tough.  It's exciting to think that Minney might be able to rejoin this group next year.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: El Tigre on February 09, 2006, 12:43:47 pm
It is about being classy, clever and enthusiastic, and on that score I commend the Oxy students who made the trip. 

Thanks scandihoovian,
Yea ... I am not going to lie and say that in past years Oxy used to act in the same manner as Cal Lu did last night, but we have been working with Newhall and the administrators at Oxy to change the culture at Occidental and prove that quality academics and quality athletics can go hand in hand.  So far this has worked out ... we have an insane amount of students coming out to the basketball games, with the football team leading the pack.  Just this week we were acknowledged in the Oxy newspaper:

    "Members of the Oxy Football Team have become the unofficial cheerleaders of the Men's Basketball Team, flooding the stands and leading the crowd in roaring songs and coordinated chants.  Dressed in their referee-like jerseys or black uniforms (we have all other students wear all black), Oxy Football players have made the "Black Hole" into an intimidating and energizing force."

I challenge any school to come out and compete with us!

I won't be at the Whittier game. My wife is demanding a night out, and she doesn't think dinner at Casa Bianca, followed by the Oxy-Whittier game, culminating in a trip to Tommy's, qualifies as an acceptable date, spoil sport that she is.

OxyBob,
Are you kidding me ... you can take me out anytime you want!  You know if that’s the case we do have a new sushi restaurant that opened up next to yellow liquor and I heard it is really good and classy, but I understand and we will try a step it up a notch to make up for the loss.  Hopefully, we will have a chance to talk sometime before the end of the season.  Maybe Eye of da Tiger, Oxy Oswald, you and I can meet before a game for a beer or two!

Eat'em Up Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Tom Brady on February 09, 2006, 12:51:12 pm
Bob-  That handjob line is classic.  Well done my friend.

All of the Oxy fans that made the trip should feel pretty darn good about yourselves (and I know you do).  You guys made the "Purple Pit" guys look pretty stupid.  I guess the whole "your'e gay" one was okay (with my sense of humor) but on the whole, yuo guys were awsome.  I loved the shirts and the overall enthusiasm.  It will be even cooler next year when the fans are on opposite sides of the court (I think).

Either way, I give you all props for showing support for Oxy.  I knew it was only a matter of time until the whole "just like football" chant came out.  I thought it was great when you guys came back with "41-9".  Man, maybe I am turning into a closet Oxy fan....nahhhh
One question though.  Did the CLU guys chant "Lets go outside"???  I thought I heard it, and if so, that is just plain bad.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Tom Brady on February 09, 2006, 12:54:00 pm
El Tigre and all the other guys in the striped shirts last night, I only have one thing to say to all of you.......Well done my friends.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 09, 2006, 01:53:09 pm
Don't look now, SCIACers, but there's a solid chance that your league could sneak a second team into the big dance via the Pool C route -- in spite of the fact that only one SCIAC team (Occidental) currently ranks among the top hundred teams in D3 in the Quality of Wins Index list that Pat Coleman updates every two or three days...

And if a win over Oxy is part of a CMS run to the title, with the Stags finishing 13-1 in the SCIAC and Oxy going 12-2, the league's Pool A automatic bid goes to a team that would otherwise have no shot via Pool C (CMS) -- but Oxy would be sitting pretty in the Pool C sweepstakes with a 14-2 West Region record, a high QOWI, and probably a slot in the West Region rankings that'd range somewhere between third and fifth. With 18 Pool C slots available this March, I'd like the Tigers' chances under those conditions.

Well put Sager, I wasn't sure of the facts but I had a sneaking suspicion that this could happen.  If both teams got in under this scenario would Oxy be seeded higher than CMS?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 09, 2006, 02:05:41 pm
Don't look now, SCIACers, but there's a solid chance that your league could sneak a second team into the big dance via the Pool C route -- in spite of the fact that only one SCIAC team (Occidental) currently ranks among the top hundred teams in D3 in the Quality of Wins Index list that Pat Coleman updates every two or three days...

And if a win over Oxy is part of a CMS run to the title, with the Stags finishing 13-1 in the SCIAC and Oxy going 12-2, the league's Pool A automatic bid goes to a team that would otherwise have no shot via Pool C (CMS) -- but Oxy would be sitting pretty in the Pool C sweepstakes with a 14-2 West Region record, a high QOWI, and probably a slot in the West Region rankings that'd range somewhere between third and fifth. With 18 Pool C slots available this March, I'd like the Tigers' chances under those conditions.

Well put Sager, I wasn't sure of the facts but I had a sneaking suspicion that this could happen.  If both teams got in under this scenario would Oxy be seeded higher than CMS?

The seeding would be dependent on the enumerated factors (in-region record, QoWI, record against other ranked teams, etc.) and could go either way, especially since they'd have split the head-to-head games. 

But more to the point, since there'd be two SoCal teams in the draw (and perhaps three, if Chapman is able to sneak a Pool B), it's a lead-pipe cinch that there'd be first-round games at one site or the other.  Remember, the NCAA is travel-cost-phobic, and they'd be positively giddy about the possibility of having two (or three) SoCal teams not flying. 

I doubt even the NCAA would pair up CMS and Oxy in the first round, sending the winner to someplace like Puget Sound for a second round game.  Therefore I'd anticipate one of these new-this-year first/second round quartets to be played either at CMS or Oxy, with Puget Sound (or other NWC rep) and Chapman or a Texas team filling out the draw.

So the question may not be "which is the higher seed?" so much as "which has the better facilities?"  I've been to Oxy several times, and it's fine; and we know the NCAA agrees, since they sent Aurora out there a few years ago.  I've not been to CMS; do they have tourney-appropriate facilities?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 09, 2006, 02:14:07 pm
hey, just wanted to say i enjoy the camraderie you oxy fans bring to this board, i wish all the sciac teams were as well represented

anyways, i was just wondering, what is the QoW1 thing you guys are talking about?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 09, 2006, 02:16:42 pm
QOWI is the Index that measures Quality of Wins.

As for the CMS facilities, I think the NCAA might encourage them to host up the street in the Rains Center.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 09, 2006, 02:23:57 pm
anyways, i was just wondering, what is the QoW1 thing you guys are talking about?

As scandihoovian says, it's Quality of Wins Index.  This is one of the factors enumerated by the NCAA in its selection process.

How to calculate QoWI (http://www.d3hoops.com/faq.php?question=35) (from the site FAQ.)

How the QoWI calculations figure into the selection process (http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=125) (from the Daily Dose.)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: El Tigre on February 09, 2006, 02:44:55 pm
One question though.  Did the CLU guys chant "Lets go outside"???  I thought I heard it, and if so, that is just plain bad.

Rick Vaughn,

Thanks for the support ... not going to lie but we have a great time at every game!  Yes your Cal Lu guys did chant, "Let's go outside" but we exited on different sides of the gym.  When we got outside they were standing out there in a group holding up their hands provoking us to fight I guess, but I knew it was their football team and I thought they just wanted to see our huge sparkling SCIAC Champion ship rings, which we were all wearing!!! To see look at Eye of da Tigers picture...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 09, 2006, 03:28:23 pm
Man, maybe I am turning into a closet Oxy fan....nahhhh

Rick,

I haven't gotten a real sense of committment to any team in particular, are you a Cal Lu man or just a D3 Hoops fan?

We'd be glad to have you on our sideline.

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 09, 2006, 04:07:30 pm
The Board is ALIVE!!!  Encouraging for us LTPs.  Oxy's solid win at CLU (young but still part of the Big 3) has me wondering whether Oxy is turning the corner and going to get away from playing not to lose.   Similarly, a good but close win by CMS has me wondering whether that was the first indication of some slight cheek tightening in Claremont.       

Nothing will loosen Claremont up more than a female canine slap by Kats Saturday night.  Hopefully Kats is going to stick with his 3 big guns and hasn't abandoned them because of their disappointing season.  Those 3 have not lived up to the hype, but I wouldn't abandon them.  They have done too much for the Program and PP can still force this thing into a 3-way tie.  Keep riding your horses King.

I know Miles is having a great year and is justifiably being looked at by folks as the MVP, but don't expect Knowles to be scared of him.  As Betty found out, there are enough good players in this conference that when people start talking about you being the man, everyone starts looking forward to guarding you and taking away what you do well.  I like how Betty is now adjusting his game and exploiting the weaknesses the openings that are caused by the focus on him.  His boards and assists are up.  Oxy will be tough to beat if Oxy & Betty have figured that out. 

Welcome to the front-runner seat Miles.  May I introduce you to David Knowles.  Mr. Knowles was the annointed best guard in the SCIAC coming into the year and he is glad that he gets a chance to play against the kid who took his throne.   

   
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 09, 2006, 05:25:34 pm
That sounds good and all, but in the Pomona-CMS game, Taylor and Knowles dont ever really compete against eachother.  Knowles still might be the best guard in the SCIAC, but Miles Taylor is the best all-around player, probably tabbed a forward.  Winterbottom will be guarding Knowles all night while Miles will be down low against Hollo and other Pomona big men.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 09, 2006, 06:32:08 pm
The members of CoSIDA, the College Sports Information Directors of America, today have selected their Academic All-District Teams, sponsored by ESPN the Magazine.  La Verne's Jason Greenlee (3.89, Accounting) was named to the First Team All-District, making him a nominee for Academic All-American.  Named to the second team were Miles Taylor of Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (3.60, Economics) and Amir Mazarei of Redlands (3.44, Accounting).  Congratulations to these outstanding scholar-athletes!

Men's Academic All-District Teams (http://www.cosida.com/formpdfs/mb06acad.pdf)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 09, 2006, 06:56:43 pm
El Tigre,
Did you say that there is a new sushi restaraunt next to Yellow Liquor?  Wow, times have changed in just a few short years since I graduated.

I know there are now a whole bunch of new coffee houses and such...Jamba Juice, Starbucks, etc along Eagle Rock Blvd.

When I was there we had smog check places...ha.  As long as The Capri, The Bucket, Troy's, Leo's tacotruck and OK Chinese are still there, I'm good. 

Will I even recognize the place when I return to L.A.?

To all the football players who were at the game...did Cal Lu really use the "just like football" chant on you?  That doesn't make sense...?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 09, 2006, 07:28:56 pm
Did you say that there is a new sushi restaraunt next to Yellow Liquor? 
...
As long as The Capri, The Bucket, Troy's, Leo's tacotruck and OK Chinese are still there, I'm good. 
...
To all the football players who were at the game...did Cal Lu really use the "just like football" chant on you?  That doesn't make sense...?
There is and I've heard nothing but good things about it, high quality sushi and reasonable prices.  And all your favortie restaraunts are still here, don't worry. 

And no they didn't do the "Just like football chant,"  Oxy led that chant all the way home...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sagecock on February 09, 2006, 08:00:44 pm
After watching the Cal Tech-PP game I've got nothing but love for those Techers.  Having missed them last season due to being abroad, it was great seeing them field a team with actual athleticism, or as there website puts it:

"Caltech has always had a fine intercollegiate player, perhaps two, on the roster but never a plethora of riches in talent with formal interscholastic basketball background"

I'm suprised that they havn't won a game this year, if only due to the fact that someone HAS to have a bad game sometime.  All the luck to the Beavers finishing SCIAC...who knows, maybe they'll take someone out this year...

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 10, 2006, 11:58:53 am
What up SCIAC board? First time poster, long time reader. It's been great watching these boards get hotter and hotter these last few weeks.


OxyFan21-

            As Oswald said, the favorites are still there but I'd suggest Dave's Chillin  N' Grillin, right next to the Starbucks on Colorado. BEST sandwiches in town.

Sagecock-

            I would say that those Techers have surprised many fans of the SCIAC, namely us Oxy fans after one of them (his name escapes me)  put down 29 on our team! Does anyone know who they lose this year? It's so weird talking about if Cal-Tech loses anybody because it usually doesn't matter but like the Cock has already mentioned, the techers are due and I'm just hoping it comes against P-P or CMS and not my Tigers.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: El Tigre on February 10, 2006, 01:29:47 pm
Wow, times have changed in just a few short years since I graduated.

OxyFan21,
Yep ... like Oswald said I also have heard nothing, but good things.  The rolls are large and really tasty.  Things have been changing around here lately.  Along with Jamba and Starbucks we also got a Cold Stones, a Quiznos, and a Rite Aid in the same area. If you want some book BBQ you can also go to Dante's ... I recommend their bbq chicken sandwich.  Now if you go south on Eagle Rock Blvd there is a new Chinese food place called House of Joy!  The food is a little high but the portion and food is worth it.  Eagle rock is change for the better ... you might not recognize the new places, but all the favorites are right where you will remember!

Eat'em Up Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: RFB on February 10, 2006, 03:56:13 pm
With all the changes that are happening in Eagle Rock, I was wondering if they have done anything about the nasty stench that comes with the neighborhood? Eagle Rock is hooded out, don't try to make it look all great. They should rename it Vato Rock.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 10, 2006, 07:22:30 pm
Dont' be jealous because you've never heard of a Rite Aid, Jamba or clean air.  Go back to your death hole in the middle of nowhere and quit trying to knock us. 

Maybe make a visit this Wed. and you can tell us of the new improved look of Vato Rock, mind the pot holes apparently we also host the new training ground for city workers!  ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 10, 2006, 07:56:05 pm
RFB,

None of us have ever said that one could mistake Eagle Rock for Malibu, West L.A., Burbank or even Glendale, for that matter.  I don't think anyone at Oxy would want it to be any different.  I wouldn't really clasify Eagle Rock as being "hood" though. 

It's good to know that The Rock still has all my old favorites.

I've never been to the 909, so I can't comment on your neck of the woods. 

Please pick me up a Cranberry Craze, if possible.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on February 10, 2006, 08:43:01 pm
I can't believe that someone who went to school the far Inland Empire is actually talking smack about anywhere else in the LA region.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 10, 2006, 10:09:22 pm
I've never been to the 909, so I can't comment on your neck of the woods.


OxyFan21-

           You're not missing anything out in the 909 except maybe a first-hand view of a declining Basketball program. And just about everything we flushed out of Eagle Rock.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on February 10, 2006, 10:35:20 pm
LaVerne, Pomona & CMC are also in the 909....
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 10, 2006, 10:43:20 pm
LaVerne, Pomona & CMC are also in the 909....

Add 3 declining FB programs to my last post  :D. Just kidding. To be honest, I had no idea those schools were in the 909. Although the bus rides out to CMS and P-P are always a bit long, nothing is worse than having to go deep into the armpit of America.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 10, 2006, 11:13:19 pm
lol... we are trashtalking about PHONE AREA CODSE???  :D

My area code is 951 :P
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on February 10, 2006, 11:34:48 pm
Okay, I'm going to speak up for Redlands. I loved the town when I use to visit there. Wonderful downtown, great amphitheater, and a beautiful public library.

Now, San Bernadino and Riverside? Not so much.

I use to work in Pomona, and the memories I have of the town are probably marred by the lousy job. Eagle Rock is okay.

I imagine you can find something nice about any town. Well, except maybe Riverside.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 11, 2006, 02:10:15 pm
Some huge games tonight in the SCIAC. P-P vs CMS should have an excellent turn out, it being cross-campus rivalry weekend.  Should CMS fall and Oxy handles Whittier the way they did the first time the teams met, the Tigers would move back into the driver seat in the SCIAC and would control their own destiny with some huge road games at CMS and P-P, not to mention a home game next week against Redlands.

Look for a big game from Betty and Phillips tonight. Betty went for 26 and 6 the first time against the Poets while Phillips went for 13 and 4.  It seems that SCIAC teams may have found a way to keep Betty from putting 20 on them (doubling in the paint, keeping him far from the basket).  He's averaging 16 ppg over the last 5 games after going for 27ppg in the 5 games before that.  With teams seemingly slowing Betty down, Phillips and company have picked up the slack and put up big numbers of their own. Phillips is one of the SCIAC's most aggressive and efficient rebounders and Whitman showed against P-P that he can hit the big shots if too much focus is given to Betty/Phillips in the paint.


Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 11, 2006, 08:53:50 pm
Okay, I'm going to speak up for Redlands. I loved the town when I use to visit there. Wonderful downtown, great amphitheater, and a beautiful public library.

Public library.... that's awesome man, thank god.  Who knows where I would have done my reading.  Sounds like Redlands is the Mecca of the Western United States.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 11, 2006, 09:14:25 pm
I'll be heading out to the CMS-PP in about an hour.  Tough to say how this one's gonna go, as usual.  Pomona needs this game more - their season's done if they lose.  Right now though, I think Claremont is the better team.  And considering the way they handled Pomona the first time, with Taylor not even having a very big game, they would seem the favorite.  Parsons was huge last time though; it would be tough for him to duplicate that performance.

Like WCW said on an earlier post, I think Knowles will have a big game -  maybe like Parsons did in the first game for Claremont.  One thing I can't understand, whatever happened to Thomas Hollo? He sems to have fallen off the face of the earth his senior year.  It doesn't seem possible now that he was first team all-SCIAC a year ago.  He did absolutely nothing against Claremont the first game, and he's been Shaq-like in his free-throw shooting.
If he can play like the Hollo of old tonight, I would give the edge to Pomona.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 12, 2006, 12:45:57 am
CMS defeated Pomona 58-51(im not sure if that buzzer shot counted) in front of a raucous crowd at Pomona's Gym.  The atmosphere was the best I have seen in a few years.  The game was close the whole game but CMS led the entire game and their great defense and clutch free throw shooting pulled it out in the end.

With CMS up 1 and the ball with just over a min remaining, Pomona got a stop and a rebound.  As they brought the ball up the court, Miles Taylor pokes the ball from behind into Dan Winterbottom's hands who passes to John Parsons for a dunk to give CMS a three point lead with 50 some seconds remaining.  On the ensuing possession, Pomona is not able to get a shot up against the Stag D and the play results in a shot clock violation.  The Stags now have the ball and a 3 point lead with 35 seconds left.  John Parsons converts 3 of 4 and Mani Maceira converts 2 of 2 free throws in the final 35 seconds to secure the win.

Pomona is done. the look on their seniors' faces was STAGgering but they fought hard and gave it all they had.  The Stags are the better team and look like they are on their way to their first SCIAC championship in four years.

Great Game!!!!

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 12, 2006, 01:23:09 am
HUGE crowd helped the Tigers overcome a 39-33 halftime deficit to come back and win 65-59 in the Rock. The crowd got louder in the second half and Whittier's shooting dropped significantly. Great win at home for the Tigers in front of two basketball HOF inductees. Phillips had another huge game, posting 16 points and grabbing 13 boards (including 5 offensively). Whitman continued to hit from down-town, including 2 in consecutive possessions to put the Tigers up for good in the second half. Both players hit their free throws, going a combined 10-12 (each going 4-6). Betty was relatively cold from the floor but hit his free throws to finish with 8 and 7 bounds.

Many props to Fanning and Farlough from the Poets. They kept their team in the game.



Way to pull one out Tigers, keep this momentum going!!!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 12, 2006, 01:29:02 am
There was a capacity crowd at Caltech tonight, complete with glee club and pep band (as well as a magnificient doe-eyed brunette beauty sitting almost next to me :-*, but I digress), to see the Beavers make a valiant effort but fall to Redlands by 21, 109-88.  I was surprised to see how well the Techsters' legs and stamina held up under the crazy onslaught that is the Arsenault System.  By the end of the game, I think the Caltech players actually looked fresher, which helped account for their charging back from about 30 down to about half that margin before succumbing.  Caltech actually outscored (and generally outplayed) the Bulldogs in the second half.  Academic All-District star Amir Mazarei, who has a very nice stroke from long range, led all scorers with 34.  Jordan Carlson scored 21 for Caltech, but I think that was more a product of the high score than any great play on his part.  The player of the game for the Beavers was senior point Day Ivy, who was all over the floor tonght.  Caltech was victimized by some sloppy passing in the first half and bricked layups all night, but Redlands also got a hand on a lot of those passes, and picked up nearly every first-half loose ball.  Their 25 point halftime lead was too much to overcome.  But it was a fun game, and the crowd was really into the game; a major change from the other two times I have been to Pasadena.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on February 12, 2006, 11:45:58 am
Okay, I'm going to speak up for Redlands. I loved the town when I use to visit there. Wonderful downtown, great amphitheater, and a beautiful public library.

Public library.... that's awesome man, thank god.  Who knows where I would have done my reading.  Sounds like Redlands is the Mecca of the Western United States.


Maybe you should publish a book with your ideals and philosophy, Oswald.  It might make the reader long for such classics "The Autobiography of Tara Lipinski", or "Political Insights from Miss America".

"I received the fundamentals of my education in school, but that was not enough. My real education, the superstructure, the details, the true architecture, I got from the public library."  - Isaac Asimov

"You must live feverishly in a library. Colleges are not going to do any good unless you are raised and live in a library every day of your life.  There’s no use going to school unless your final destination is the library."  - Ray Bradbury

"Democracy depends on an informed population. And where can people get all the information they need? At the Library."  - Elliot Shelkrot

Now see what your ignorance has caused? I just lost a karma point.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 12, 2006, 02:47:37 pm
HAHA I realize that librarys are there to expand our knowledge, my point was that everywhere has a library.  And I mean everywhere. 

Thanks for the words of wisdom though.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: fosheezie on February 12, 2006, 06:43:55 pm
Very disappointed in the PP hoops team.  I thought they had all the pieces going in to repeat.  Knowles, Wexler-Beron, Hollo, Lloyd, and most importantly Kats.  I know Kats is doing everything he can to motivate the troops and Knowles is playing well, but the frontline is disappointing.  The stat line from last night's CMS game says it all.  If you can't get up for that game, something is wrong.  Pick it up guys, you're seniors, show some pride.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on February 12, 2006, 10:14:39 pm
HAHA I realize that librarys are there to expand our knowledge, my point was that everywhere has a library.  And I mean everywhere. 

Thanks for the words of wisdom though.

Alright, I'll get off my high horse. Sorry. I would blame it on getting up on the wrong side of bed, but I think it was the same side I arise from each day.

Anyway, my original point was to point out that every place has good and bad in it. I remember Redlands, however, as a beautiful small city--in a not-so-beautiful surrounding. And, for a small city, there was a lot of culture in it.

I would go to Redlands for some arts and entertainment. I'd stay in Eagle Rock for food though. I never found a Leo's equivalent in Redlands.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 13, 2006, 11:00:45 am
Very disappointed in the PP hoops team.  I thought they had all the pieces going in to repeat.  Knowles, Wexler-Beron, Hollo, Lloyd, and most importantly Kats.  I know Kats is doing everything he can to motivate the troops and Knowles is playing well, but the frontline is disappointing.  The stat line from last night's CMS game says it all.  If you can't get up for that game, something is wrong.  Pick it up guys, you're seniors, show some pride.

I don't think it's a lack of pride...but I do agree that the front line didn't perform their best for the CMS game.  Hopefully the big 3 up front will be able to finish up strong, they have all been huge players for PP over the past 4 years.  Speaking of another senior, I gotta shout out Evan Flagg for playing a great game against CMS...granted, he hasn't been a huge threat offensively this year, but he's contributing all the intangibles real well...he played some serious lockdown D on Parsons and Taylor this past game (both of them had their success when he was switched off them). 

Watching that game firsthand was great, as the rivalry is as big as ever...although I think CMS players/fans might want to count up the SCIAC championships over the last 15 years before they talk too much smack.  Get it done this year and I'll congratulate though, they definitely have a solid team.  Maceira absolutely BEASTED on PP...first time seeing him...Brian Skinner lookalike (taylor = casey jacobsen by the way)...he was all over the tip ins on the offensive glass.  Him and Jolly were great JC finds for them...strange route for a SCIAC school to go, but more power to em.

PP fans might be in for a long year next year...we'll be rebuilding and my boy Dave will have to do his best Kobe impersonation.  I'm thinking 25 ppg might have to happen for them to stay in games.  It's clear that he's more talented than any other guard in SCIAC, and an additional 2 inches/20 pounds and he would have been small D1 probably (although I assume you could say that for most of the top SCIAC players over the years).  He played the whole game against CMS, and never seemed to wilt under the full court pressure, dismantling it with ease every time up...40 minutes, 0 turnovers...VERY impressive for handling the ball as much as he did.  Next year will be a test though, he should see every sort of gimmick defense until one of the underclassmen takes some of the scoring load

anyway, hopefully PP finishes strong and perhaps helps out CMS by beating Oxy?  We'll see
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 13, 2006, 11:17:57 am
PomAlum, rare season for Kats.  Clearly the bigs have been disappointing but this same squad won two in a row.  CMS is better.  Oxy has had the best year.  But PP had everyone back and getting swept by CMS?!?  That isn't acceptable in a down year, let alone in a year where the Hens have the best talent.  Kats will reload.  They need to find someone like that one kid who got the MVP a few years ago but averaged only about 10 a game.  He was the glue and he never would have let the team perform like that.  

7 days and this thing will be decided.  Hats off to both CMS & Oxy.  The former squad has overcome some serious adversity and has salvaged the season.  The W against P. Loma & Westmont were turning points.  Great job by a coaching staff.  The season could have easily gone the other way.     

And Oxy has given us all a season to be proud of.  They put our conference on the national stage and knocked on the door of the top 10.   Newhall & staff have been the only coaching staff in the past several decades who have refused to believe the belief outside of our fishbowl conference that the SCIAC is a bottom-tier hoops conference.   Are they content to be able to tell everyone that they got some fun ink, spanked Amherst, competed with Utah St. and Azuza, and got as highly ranked as #12?  I hope for their sake that aren't because their system and their bigs gives Oxy a real chance to do some more damage.  

7 day season for CMS & Oxy.  Expect them both to bring it.   CMS has the MVP and the edge, and maybe that will give Oxy enough of a chip on their shoulder to overcome the adversity you face on the road. 

How good would a SCIAC Tourney be this year? 

SamiAm, you write too well for this thread.  Are you an Amherst fan who developed a respect for the SCIAC in your time last month in the Rock? 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on February 13, 2006, 12:32:39 pm
Quote
SamiAm, you write too well for this thread.  Are you an Amherst fan who developed a respect for the SCIAC in your time last month in the Rock?

That's very kind of you, WCW. But, no, I'm just an ignorant fan of basketball at any level. I do, however, have an affinity for the SCIAC and Oxy in particular.

That said, I'm a bit disappointed in the Oxy play of late. It seems that each team is bring its A game to Eagle Rock and Oxy is just hanging on. I think they have the capability to put a team away in the 2nd half, but they sure haven't been doing that.

Obviously, you can't argue with the record. But it's going to be interesting--and nerve racking--to see how they handle this next week. At CMS and at PP. Sheesh.

As a SCIAC fan, it would be nice to see two representatives in the post-season, a scenario that means CMS wins over Oxy. As a selfish Oxy fan, I sure would like them to win out.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on February 13, 2006, 02:29:29 pm
Congrats to the tigers for their recent rank for west-coast teams and to the other teams that are upthere as well.

Anyways, I have been reading these post and catching up on the outcomes of games. Sounds like a lot of teams are having a heck of a season and doing well as the regular season comes to an end.

Just hearing out the sagehens, the stags and tigers battling it out for the top inside gyms full of excited fans just give me goose bumps. All these teams have come a long way since their first games. Should seem interesting if the SCIAc can send two teams into post-play and have them end up past the sweet 16.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 13, 2006, 06:00:18 pm

That said, I'm a bit disappointed in the Oxy play of late. It seems that each team is bring its A game to Eagle Rock and Oxy is just hanging on. I think they have the capability to put a team away in the 2nd half, but they sure haven't been doing that.

I think that Oxy has yet to play their best team game.  Unfortunately, one of the better games they played as a team came when the other team(La Verne) wouldn't miss a shot and the Tigers fell in a close one. In Oxy's (and CMS') defense, it's a tough place being atop the conference with a bulls-eye on your back.  Every team brings their A game and it's difficult to play to your absolute potential everytime you go out there. However, I think that Oxy has handled this "slump" exactly the way any coach would want them to;  When teams have been able to slow down Betty/Phillips in the paint, Whitman and McBride have been able to hit the big shot and when it's not working from the perimeter, Oxy's big men and the defense take control.

Is there any team in the SCIAC that goes as deep in their lineup as Oxy? The next 4 (Marvin, Alexander, Mills, Kostic) could be starting/getting huge minutes on any other team in conference; all average about 12 mpg for Oxy. Any thoughts?

What's the MVP race looking like? First of all, who votes for it? And if Oxy wins out and Phillips continues to be Oxy's backbone with teams doubling and slowing down Betty, you think Phillips and Betty would split the vote and someone from P-P or CMS would be crowned MVP? Who are the favorites?

Can't tell you how excited I am for this weeks games. Redlands at home will be a blast. I'm hoping can repeat his 47 point outing against the Dawgs; this time in front of a home crowd.  P-P and CMS are obviously the games that get the attention but Redlands can come out and put 110+ on anyone.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 13, 2006, 07:15:05 pm
the coaches vote...and, in my opinion, the only logical people in the race right now are Betty and Taylor...whichever team ends up winning league, that player will probably win POY
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on February 13, 2006, 07:37:16 pm
I think that Oxy has yet to play their best team game.

I agree. I wish they would play a bit better so I wouldn't get so dang nervous toward the end of each game.

You're right about La Verne that night too. I think at one point they were shooting 60%; unbelievable.

And as far as depth, I'm really impressed with Oxy's bench. It's a talented team, with a good mix of experience and up-and-coming players.

This is going to be a nerve-racking and fun week.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 13, 2006, 09:51:44 pm
High-minded ideals for small minds, apparently.
OxyBob

Hey Oxy Bob,

Get off your high horse.  Oxy and their fans are not pure at heart.  In fact, at times, they are worse than any fans in the SCIAC....especially at other events.  I have witnessed women's volleyball matches at Eagle Rock where your beloved FB players have been absolutely brutal in their commments that go against Oxy's "Equity" cornerstone:

Respect for and the practice of justice, fairness and integrity—the belief that no attribute such as race, ethnicity, gender, religion, socioeconomic status, sexual orientation, age or physical ability should impair anyone’s access to or enjoyment of any feature of Occidental College.

Where women are scared to walk out to their vans after a match.  I dont think this falls under the Community cornerstone either:
"Students, faculty, staff, alumni and friends of the College all empowered to help create and sustain a campus environment characterized by a spirit of mutual respect and cooperation based upon our common vision and shared values."

I am not condoning what the CLU fans have said, but I am sick of reading how the Oxy FB players/fans are golden boys and are the mold of what fans should be.  So before you start degrading people's intelligence, read YOUR SCHOOL'S MISSION STATEMENT and follow through.

"Thus equity necessarily entails welcoming the presence of all forms of diversity into the pursuit of excellence."  - (look familiar Oxy Bob?)

So lets get back to talking hoops and cheering to get 2 (maybe 3) teams in the tourney (Oxy & CMS) with Chapman as a pool C.  It would be nice to wreck some havoc and get some respect for the SCIAC.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 13, 2006, 11:34:09 pm
Get off your high horse.  Oxy and their fans are not pure at heart.  In fact, at times, they are worse than any fans in the SCIAC....especially at other events.  I have witnessed women's volleyball matches at Eagle Rock where your beloved FB players have been absolutely brutal in their commments ...

I am not condoning what the CLU fans have said, but I am sick of reading how the Oxy FB players/fans are golden boys and are the mold of what fans should be.  So before you start degrading people's intelligence, read YOUR SCHOOL'S MISSION STATEMENT and follow through.

I don't know the History of past football teams cheering at other events here at Oxy but I can say with the upmost confidence that NO current FB player would have been present at the events you claim to have witnessed. If any of them were, shame on them but not the entire Oxy fanbase.  I think the reason why Oxy's fans are getting the whole "what a fan should be" thing is because they truely are just great fans. Oxy fans travel better than any other fans in the SCIAC and did the same last year.  Heaven forbid that there are fans that are constantly Loud, Proud and most importantly (El Tigre's favorite word) Classy. The crowd at Rush Gymnasium is a main reason why Oxy is 18-2 the past 2 seasons at home (with the one loss against La Verne this year and a loss against Trinity (CT) in 2004).
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 14, 2006, 12:51:29 am

I don't know the History of past football teams cheering at other events here at Oxy but I can say with the upmost confidence that NO current FB player would have been present at the events you claim to have witnessed. If any of them were, shame on them but not the entire Oxy fanbase. 

It only takes a small number to hurt the whole of the group....and the fans to which I am referring (see how to spell that word Rick Vaughn?) were FB players....not this year...but the last 2 years, when I was present.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: El Tigre on February 14, 2006, 11:17:27 am
Quote
I have witnessed women's volleyball matches at Eagle Rock where your beloved FB players have been absolutely brutal in their commments that go against Oxy's "Equity" cornerstone.
Quote

sciacguru,
I will come out and take this one.  I have been a football player for the past four years.  I was in attendance at the game you are referring to.  I truly apologize for the years because we were really bad, but those seniors have long since left.  Not saying that the actions of my fellow players were in any way right, but that was two years ago and we are doing a lot to change that aspect of how we act.  As Liger said we are trying to be classier and so far I think we have done just that.  This year’s seniors (21 to be exact) are doing a lot to change how people view us and the rest of our school.  We have been commended by our Athletic Director, Dean of Admission, Faculty, Alumni, and to be honest representative from other schools.  I guess what we are trying to say is rather then merely that we are the best at oxy is that oxy is setting an example of how student support should be portrayed at an athletic event.  I think if you came out to a basketball game today you would be beside yourself at how we have changed the way business is dealt with on and off the court.

OxyBob,
Trust me we are doing everything in our power to get as many people to this Saturdays game as we can.  Oswald, Eye of da Tiger and I have some tricks up our sleeve that we think will work in getting people to go.  I hope to see you there this Wednesday against Redlands.  Hey if you want to ride the party bus to CMS this weekend we can put you on the list.  j/k … hope to talk to you this week.

Eat'em up tigers!!!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 14, 2006, 01:49:25 pm
Guru-
Dead on about the huge damage a few louts can do to the reputation of a larger group.  I was at a high school game on Friday where two members of the other school's student body took it upon themselves shoot the moon in front of 1500 people of all ages.  Not only did they demonstrate a gross misunderstanding of the correct time and place for what can be a classic comedic move  ;) they seriously damaged the reputation of their school, which has taken great strides to try and overcome a reputation as the "third" high school in the district. 

As for the game itself...
Can anyone shed any light on why CMS seems to have improved so dramatically over the last month or so?  I'm trying to figure out how this Stag team, who has been very impressive throughout the conference schedule, lost twice to a Chapman team that struck me as decent but not outstanding (recent loss to Santa Cruz)?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 14, 2006, 01:54:34 pm
Can anyone shed any light on why CMS seems to have improved so dramatically over the last month or so?  I'm trying to figure out how this Stag team, who has been very impressive throughout the conference schedule, lost twice to a Chapman team that struck me as decent but not outstanding (recent loss to Santa Cruz)?

I'll be listening for insight on the rise of Claremont, but I'd also love to hear any theories on the decline of Chapman.  Early in the year, they looked like THE team in the west, starting off 8-0 and looking strong...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 14, 2006, 03:50:41 pm
OxyBob, you and all of the Tiger fans are walking on pins and needles, waiting for the proverbial shoe to drop.  I'm not challenging your analysis, just calling out that your squad is 18-2 and been a solid figure in the top 20 for all of conference play. 

All you Oxy folks need to have more confidence in your players & coaches.  Those kids are winners.  The conference is good this year and it is largely in my view due to everyone watching what someone outside of the Big 3 has done, Oxy, and realizing that if Oxy can do it, maybe they aren't as far off as the inner demons told them they were.  Everyone can play with Oxy and they know it.  

Redlands, CMS & PP will bring their A games, just like they did in the first meetings.  But these kids at the Rock are winners who keep playing like champions.        
                   



Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 14, 2006, 09:23:57 pm
My take after reading a good and lively board:

An Oxy loss followed with a win at PP probably gets Oxy in.  Tough to leave out a 22-3 team that is 15-2 in region.

Even IF CMS beats Oxy, they are not home free as they are at Laverne two days later.  ULV is the third best team in the conference right now and, from what I hear, they will be able to play at home.  (I heard this from a player, but was wondering if anyone had an update).

CMS's early in-region losses will hurt if they don't beat Oxy.

I think it's setting up for the March 3-4 regional to be in SoCal.

Be listening tomorrow!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 15, 2006, 02:30:55 am
I'm glad to see the subject of rude fan behavior at games has been brought up. There's one particular sickening display of it that I've seen numerous times this season, just about every time I've gone to watch Pomona play an away game (or even home against CMS).  The chants if "You are ugly!" directed at certain reigning Player of the Year makes me sometimes wish Alex would lose his cool and show these terds what ugly really looks like.  Luckily for them, he outwardly does not seem to be bothered by it.  That guy has had to put up with garbage about his looks every season I've watched him play (all four, or five if you include the year he was hurt).  That kind of attack is much more personal than chanting that someone is gay (they probably don't know if they player's gay or not, and chances are he's not).  I'm sure Alex realizes he's not never going to be on the cover of GQ so if you want to get on him about his game than leave it at that.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sagecock on February 15, 2006, 03:30:39 am
Laverne will be hosting home games I'd assume for the rest of the season (PP will be there this wednesday for sure...that or the players have been misled)

And really, all the "you are ugly" chant demonstrates is a fundemental lack of creativity.  As top academic schools SCIAC fans should really come better prepared then that. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 15, 2006, 08:13:55 am
"You are ugly", or "you are gay" are both entirely classless and completely out of line.

Let's score 200 tonight!  ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 15, 2006, 12:37:55 pm
KC, tell Lloyd to give Redick a call and he'll understand that how to turn that into a positive.  Personally, I heard 3 CMS coeds commenting after hearing that chant at the CMS game that they don't know where it comes from because they think he is kind of cute. 

A guy at Maryland had a shirt on that read in the front "JJ, I'm going to name my first child after you" and on the back it read "So I can beat him every day".  

 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 15, 2006, 12:50:59 pm
My take after reading a good and lively board:

An Oxy loss followed with a win at PP probably gets Oxy in.  Tough to leave out a 22-3 team that is 15-2 in region.

Even IF CMS beats Oxy, they are not home free as they are at Laverne two days later.  ULV is the third best team in the conference right now and, from what I hear, they will be able to play at home.  (I heard this from a player, but was wondering if anyone had an update).

CMS's early in-region losses will hurt if they don't beat Oxy.

I think it's setting up for the March 3-4 regional to be in SoCal.

Be listening tomorrow!

Good points, tigersports.  While I do think CMS will prevail on Saturday, part of the challenge for both CMS and Oxy is the Saturday-Monday twist at the end of the SCIAC schedule.  Seems like both PP and ULV are playing well enough to win on Monday, especially given the short preparation/recovery time.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 15, 2006, 01:16:18 pm
A guy at Maryland had a shirt on that read in the front "JJ, I'm going to name my first child after you" and on the back it read "So I can beat him every day".  

while that got the headlines, this pic is the all time classic:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/cgoldens/2.jpg
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 15, 2006, 03:09:37 pm
That is just classic and creative
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 15, 2006, 04:18:40 pm
Quote
Not only did they demonstrate a gross misunderstanding of the correct time and place for what can be a classic comedic move   they seriously damaged the reputation of their school, which has taken great strides to try and overcome a reputation as the "third" high school in the district. 

oops...that and streaking will get you registered as a sex offender that will stay with you the rest of your life nowadays.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 15, 2006, 08:56:16 pm
Should be an exciting game out in the Rock tonight. Let's hope Oxy can handle the system the way they did in the first meeting. Redlands stayed hot in the first half but cooled in the second. I'm hoping for a blow out for a few reasons: 1 Oxy needs the win to build momentum heading into CMS, 2 I would like to see Oxy be able to use some/more of their bench to save some legs for the looong weekend ahead and 3 Betty's dunks in the first game were unreal and I can't get enough of huge dunks on Redlands.

Just want to know what other people on this board think but who are the best fans in the SCIAC? Obviously I'd be bias to place Oxy at the top (which I am and would), but what do you all think? Top to bottom ...

1) Oxy
2) CMS/P-P (They are all the same anyways, although i think this weekend CMS is going to pack the place)
3) Redlands
4) Cal-Tech ( A band in a gym that holds 75?! Awesome)`
5) Whittier
6) La Verne


Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 15, 2006, 11:09:44 pm
Havin trouble with the oxy broadcast anyone?  I can't get it.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on February 15, 2006, 11:24:24 pm
Havin trouble with the oxy broadcast anyone?  I can't get it.
I can't get it either. Rats.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 15, 2006, 11:29:36 pm
Just got word that there will be no broadcast tonight.  Craig's son broke his leg in a scooter accident.

Any updates would be greatly appreciated.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on February 16, 2006, 12:42:45 am
Games so far:

Cal Lutheran 77, Whittier 67
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 75, Caltech 37 (sounds like a score from last year)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 16, 2006, 12:49:01 am
Score from the Rock

Oxy - 120
Redlands - 126

Tough loss for Oxy.  Questionable calls at crucial times by the black and whites, but Redlands got hot towards the end of the second half and Oxy couldn't keep up.  The Tigers missed crucial free throws down the stretch that would have pulled them within 4 or 5.

Amir Mazarei was absolutely lights out for Redlands.  
He dropped 57 points on the Tigers and was 13 for 23 from 3pt range and 12 for 13 from the line.  

Huge games for Oxy this weekend, the Tigers will have to win out.

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 16, 2006, 12:50:28 am
CMS defeated Caltech 75-37 at Ducey Gymnasium.  Caltech hung tough in the first half similar to the first meeting, the score was 23-23 with a few min left in the first half.  From then on out, CMS dominated. The score was 35-25 at halftime and shortly into the second half, the entire bench was unloaded.

John Parsons led the Stags with 17 points on 4-5 from 3pt land and 6 assists.  Dan Winterbottom added 10 points on 2-4 from 3pt.

Saturday Night is the night and it should be freaking rocking at Ducey Gymnasium. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 16, 2006, 12:51:30 am
Saturday Night is the night and it should be freaking rocking at Ducey Gymnasium. 

See you there!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 16, 2006, 01:04:45 am
WOW, that's a shocker out of Eagle Rock.  This means that a win on Saturday should just about wrap up the SCIAC for the Stags and Occi must win to force a playoff the next Saturday assuming the teams win out after that.

Regardless, Saturday is gonna be great.  See you there, Oxy fans!

-- Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 16, 2006, 01:24:59 am
UNBELIEVABLE!

I have never seen a performance quite like the one Amir Mazarei put on tonight for Redlands.  The guy was absolutely unstoppable.  I wasn't there when Shivers dropped 63 on Whittier a couple of years ago, but even that was against an inferior team, in a game they won by 30.  Oxy knew he was going to get the ball, they knew he was going to shoot it, but there was nothing they could do to stop him.  His range knew no boundaries tonight.

I almost talked myself out of going to the game at Eagle Rock tonight, thinking it wouldn't even be competitive.  I would have been kicking myself if I had.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on February 16, 2006, 01:25:18 am
I was just at the Oxy - Redlands game in Eagle Rock.  It was a very tough loss for the Oxy squad. They were up 10 with about 7 minutes to go in the game.  Then Amir Mazeiri really turned it on.  He put on the best shooting performances I HAVE EVER SEEN! I played against him 2 years ago and he has been one of, if not the best player, at Redlands since stepping foot on the campus, but tonight he was unconscious.  Oxy was doing whatever they could to stay in front of him.  Give the game ball to Amir, he deserves it.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 16, 2006, 02:31:10 am
Sad day.  Those at the game talk to me and tell me how the kid was lighting it up was driving, launching three's, doing anything he wanted.  57 against Oxy which has some young kids who can play D.  Hard to believe.   LV lights it up against them, now Redlands.  Those kids at Oxy are going to be haunted by that for a long time.  57?!?  I don't care if he was pulling from half court, get a stop.  Fortunately for them they have 3 more opportunities to show that they can guard someone without them having a career night against them.  This thing is ALL CMS.  Oxy's kids need to accept that they can win out and still not get a bid (probably not mathematical but a reality they should accept).  Too bad for them and the SCIAC.  Those Oxy kids have had such a great season for their school and really all of the SCIAC.  I hope they can realize the weight is off their shoulders and they can get back to playing like they have something to prove - like they did against Amherst and all of pre-league.  Those kids deserve to finish with their heads held high. 

Then Oxy and all of us can gear up for cheering for the Stags to shed the Big3-one and done-itis. 

       

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2006, 03:04:52 am
Oxy's kids need to accept that they can win out and still not get a bid (probably not mathematical but a reality they should accept).

Not true, WCW. First of all, if they win out it means that they'll have swept CMS and will thus get the Pool A bid via their head-to-head sweep of the Stags. Head-to-head is the SCIAC's first tiebreaker, isn't it? It's everybody else's.

But even if Oxy loses to CMS on Saturday, I think they'll still be alright for a Pool C bid if they then close out the regular season with wins over Pomona-Pitzer and Caltech. Keep in mind that Oxy's currently #1 in the West Region as of Wednesday morning's second NCAA regional ranking. That gives the Tigers an awfully big cushion. And the cushion was enhanced even more this evening by the fact that Buena Vista, which is having an uncharacteristic losing season, rose to the occasion and beat #4 Wartburg.

It's going to take more than one bad night against Redlands to bring Oxy to the brink of the cliff.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 16, 2006, 03:16:35 am
I was under the impression that tiebreakers did not matter in the SCIAC and if there was a tie, then there would be a one-game playoff on Saturday Night at a neutral location.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 16, 2006, 03:19:35 am
You can't do much when you shoot 74% and a single opposing player puts 57 down on your defense. I think there was one point in the game where Redlands hit 6 or 7 3's in a row with Mazarei hitting about 5 of them. Outstanding performance. Redlands as a team shot 64 3-pointers and hit 28 (43%). At one point in the first half, they were shooting 70% from behind the arc. The hardest part about this loss was the fact that Redlands actually shot far worse in the second half than the first (34% and 53%, respectively). The difference in this game were the free throws. Redlands hit 23-25 to Oxy's dismal 12-25 outing. Oxy's big men had huge games themselves as Betty and Phillips had 71 points and 18 boards between them and shot an astounding 34-40 (85%) from the floor and 3-6 from the line.

Here's hoping the Tigers become Road Warriors these next few games ... Still a ton of basketball to be played.


And a one-game playoff would be the sweetest thing ever to happen in SCIAC.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 16, 2006, 03:31:04 am
Even if there was a one-game tiebreaker, losing it wouldn't seriously damage Oxy's Pool C chances. They'd end the year 14-3 in the West Region, with a pretty decent QOWI, and they'd still be ranked somewhere in the middle of the region.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 16, 2006, 09:26:59 am
I hope Sager is right.  It certainly would be great to get 2 SCIAC teams into the postseason.  A tough road ahead.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 16, 2006, 11:33:31 am
Redlands win over Oxy certainly makes things more interesting in the conference race, and I hope Sager's right about the possibilities for two SCIAC teams in the playoffs.  Redlands big win, even though it seems to have been primarily the product of an amazing individual shooting performance, unfortunately provides further encouragement for Gary Smith to keep running the system.

Should a playoff be necessary, I would like to offer up Boston Garden West as a neutral site - wouldn't it be a great way to send the WWII aircraft hanger out in style?  :)

Finally - it's good to see the Kingsmen keep hanging tough with a win at Whittier, it would be nice to win the last two home games in the old gym.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 16, 2006, 11:58:08 am
Redlands big win, even though it seems to have been primarily the product of an amazing individual shooting performance, unfortunately provides further encouragement for Gary Smith to keep running the system.

That and the win over Cal Lu earlier this year....
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 16, 2006, 12:54:56 pm
True enough Jordis - although this year's CLU team is not quite as strong as last year's.  The last men's game in the old gym is against Redlands on Monday night - I'm thinking the Kingsmen will set the record straight.  After all, the Redlands players are usually thrown a little out of whack when their 3s start hitting the ceiling...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 16, 2006, 02:26:33 pm
I guess the Oxy fans couldnt help the Tigers win at home this time?!?!?!

Hopefully someone nominates Amir for Team of the Week....averaging 46 pts (57 vs Oxy, 47 vs Laverne, and 34 vs CIT) with 36 3s over 7 days.

LaVerne was able to sustain 14 3s from Amir, and still pull out the victory.  So who didnt contribute for Oxy???
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Tom Brady on February 16, 2006, 02:40:47 pm
Scandi-  I love the idea of the neutral site being in T.O.  That is about as neutral as it gets, but they would probably do it in Whittier.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 16, 2006, 06:10:19 pm
I guess the Oxy fans couldnt help the Tigers win at home this time?!?!?! ...

So who didnt contribute for Oxy???

No fans can stop a guy that scores 57, unfortunately.  It wasn't a matter of who wasn't contributing, Oxy has 4 players in double digits with a few others scoring 8 or 9. One of the most glaring stats of the game was Whitman's non-shooting. How does your best shooter only get 3 shots off the entire game? Obviously, Redland's press defense prohibited any outside shooting (Oxy shot a total of 3 from downtown) and why take outside shots when you can pass down low for an easy basket nearly every possession. And I'm going back to it because it cost them the game but Oxy really bit it hard from the free-throw line. You just have to make them count when a team puts you on the line 25 times.

Who nominates players for team of the week?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 16, 2006, 06:58:16 pm
^^the best shooter thing doesn't really make any difference...the rules go out the window when you play Redlands and each team normally has a designated 'deep' guy to rack up all the points against them.  The only player/team I can remember actually willing to settle for 3's against them and do reasonably well with it was La Verne and Greenlee in particular lighting them up from deep.  So you NEVER need to shoot from outside to beat Redlands...that doesn't seem to be any sort of problem with Oxy's outcome.  The FT shooting however, sounds directly responsible.  But still, remember that even against Redlands, 120 points is PLENTY...they lost because they gave up about 20 more than Redlands should score cause Mazerei pulled a Kobe
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 16, 2006, 07:12:29 pm
Mazerei pulled a Kobe
Can't wait to see him in the League
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 16, 2006, 07:35:39 pm
Redlands big win, even though it seems to have been primarily the product of an amazing individual shooting performance, unfortunately provides further encouragement for Gary Smith to keep running the system.
That and the win over Cal Lu earlier this year....

Nice response Jordis...since those are their only non-Cal Tech wins in conference.

>>The only player/team I can remember actually willing to settle for 3's against them and do reasonably well with it was La Verne and Greenlee in particular lighting them up from deep.  So you NEVER need to shoot from outside to beat Redlands...<<

If this is true then you didnt see the Whittier vs Redlands stat line....
http://www.redlands.edu/prebuilt/pdf/athletics/2006basketball_mens/ur-wc.htm
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 16, 2006, 08:04:37 pm
Nobody seems to have responded to this point, but I believe the one-game tiebreaker in the SCIAC only comes into play if the two tied teams split head to head games. If one team swept the other, the AQ is theirs.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 16, 2006, 08:56:31 pm
DJ is dead-on.  Scoring was not a problem for Oxy.  Their guards getting lit up Kobe-style was.  Like A Walker said, "Ain't no way some dude is getting that many off against me, I'd clothesline him."  Said from a guy who has the lateral quickness of a Sumo wrestler.  

Like I said, Oxy's guards are going to be having dreams about that for a long time.   I'm thinking about changing my name to "UsemeLikeI'maGuardFromOxy".    

I can hear Kats talking to his players at half if his backcourt was getting bombed like that:

Kats: Sagehen teams have put up more banners than anyone.  We own this League. How many titles have you guys won? Two?!? You think that is something?!?  You see, pals, this thing is bigger than you. And you guys walk in a gym and expect them to rollover because it says Pomona on your jersey?  Nice guys? I don't give a sh#!. Good students? F you -- go back to Honnold and find a desk!! You wanna play here? Guard someone!! (to Knowles) You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse? You can't take this -- how can you take the abuse you get playing the Stags at their gym?! You don't like it -- leave. I can go out there tonight with our JV team and defend those Redlands guards! Tonight! Can you? Can you? Go and do likewise! A-I-D-A!! Get mad! You sons of female canines! Get mad!! You know what it takes to win in this league?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 16, 2006, 09:07:06 pm
Nobody seems to have responded to this point, but I believe the one-game tiebreaker in the SCIAC only comes into play if the two tied teams split head to head games. If one team swept the other, the AQ is theirs.

Pat,

I dont think that holds true for the SCIAC.  Both teams are considered SCIAC champions but the AQ goes to the winner of the tie breaker game.  Back in 98/99 for the women's side, CLU beat PP both times, but both were 10-2 and they had a tie breaker game for the AQ.

http://cms.claremont.edu/sciac/98-99/women'sbasketball.htm
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 16, 2006, 09:14:33 pm
  Both teams are considered SCIAC champions but the AQ goes to the winner of the tie breaker game.

I couldn't care less how the conference chooses to define "title" winners, just the AQ. Automatic qualifier. Bid to the tournament.

If the SCIAC wants to award that automatic bid based on best one out of three, hey, that's its right. But if one team sweeps the other head to head, why should that 0-2 team get a bid to the NCAA tournament by winning one of three?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 16, 2006, 09:18:58 pm
  Both teams are considered SCIAC champions but the AQ goes to the winner of the tie breaker game.

I couldn't care less how the conference chooses to define "title" winners, just the AQ. Automatic qualifier. Bid to the tournament.

If the SCIAC wants to award that automatic bid based on best one out of three, hey, that's its right. But if one team sweeps the other head to head, why should that 0-2 team get a bid to the NCAA tournament by winning one of three?

Well Pat, how you care or feel really isnt relevant here, now is it???  Now you understand how the great administrators (presidents) of the SCIAC think.... in particular about athletics.  The other great thing about the SCIAC basketball rules/regulations deals with PP/CMS.  If the schedule comes out and PP/CMS play each other when their students are not back from break.....another schedule must be created, so it works out that they play when the students are back.  Nice little asterik there.  The SCIAC is a bit screwy to say the least.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 17, 2006, 12:11:07 am
>>The only player/team I can remember actually willing to settle for 3's against them and do reasonably well with it was La Verne and Greenlee in particular lighting them up from deep.  So you NEVER need to shoot from outside to beat Redlands...<<

If this is true then you didnt see the Whittier vs Redlands stat line....
http://www.redlands.edu/prebuilt/pdf/athletics/2006basketball_mens/ur-wc.htm

 :o nah i didn't see that originally...that's insane shooting by Whittier...so that makes 2 times I've seen teams decide to shoot 3's and handle Redlands...but my main points still remains, it's completely unnecessary

oh, and pardon me for not checking the box of a Redlands/Whittier game :D...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 17, 2006, 01:15:57 am
Nice historical citation, Guru.  I did not know that about the SCIAC playoff. 

Well played.

Hyphen - I wouldn't have checked the Whittier Redlands box either but I'll give Guru props again for the research skills...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Howlinwolf on February 17, 2006, 10:26:46 am
A question for the SCIAC pundits: Does Oxy have a legitimate shot at CMC on Saturday? Seems the Stags are peaking and the Tigers are sagging. If so, what will it take for Oxy to triumph?

An aside. Speaking of fan chants, one of the worst of the non-vulgar lot is "overrated." In essence you're broadcasting to your team that they haven't played especially well; rather, the team that was favored just isn't that good. Nice way to deflate the effort of your own squad. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 17, 2006, 11:50:29 am
^^true, it's like when Villanova knocked off UCONN a few days ago and their fans rushed the court...i know it's a big win, but yall were #4 in the country and actually ranked higher than the Huskies in RPI...settle down and don't look so surprised


anyway, of course Oxy can win.  CMS is good, but they're nowhere near some legendary 72-10 Bulls type squad...Oxy needs to keep Maceira off the boards and Parsons from having a big game.  Taylor's really good, but he won't beat you by himself.  Betty obviously has to have a monster game as well.

that said, after the CMS/PP game, I had CMS winning out and taking league...and that was before Oxy/Redlands
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 17, 2006, 12:47:04 pm
A question for the SCIAC pundits: Does Oxy have a legitimate shot at CMC on Saturday? Seems the Stags are peaking and the Tigers are sagging. If so, what will it take for Oxy to triumph?

As the DJ said, of course Oxy can win.  The key to Oxy's win against CMS at home this year was the defense that held the Stags to 48 points (Lowest output of the season?). Oxy controlled the tempo of the game and held on in the end with free throws. CMS is extremely difficult to play at home (anywhere, really) and Oxy knows that as well as anybody. I think if the Tigers are going to leave CMS with a victory, 3 things need to happen. 1) Again as Hyphen said, Betty needs a huge game. Something like 20 and 8. 2) Phillips needs to board like a mad man. Although I'm not entirely sure how good of a rebounder Maceira is but Taylor is #1 in conference in RPG, with Phillips right behind him. The Tigers MUST pull down more offensive boards than the 5 they did against Redlands and keep CMS from getting anywhere near the 15 offensive they gave up to the Bulldogs. If Redlands can cash in on those extra chances, CMS can. And 3) Defense, defense, defense. We've seen the polar extremes of Oxy's D this season, the intense D that held CMS to 48 and P-P to 52 and the D that gave up 82 to La Verne and about 1000 points to Mazerei.

Does CMS have anyone that can consitently hit 3's? It seems that the weakness of the Oxy D is found on the perimeter. Both Redlands and La Verne were setting screen after screen to set up looks for thier shooters so look for CMS to do the same.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 17, 2006, 02:24:48 pm
Oxy has a chance, but it will be extremely tough.  CMS is undefeated at home this year, as Oxy was before Wednesday night.  The gym should be rocking.  I think it has potential to be close to a CMS-Pomona type game from what I hear.  Occi seems to be bringing to busloads of students and the CMS crowd will definitely be there along with the usual alumni from both sides.  Should be a great one.  Hope to see you all there. GO CMS!

-- Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 17, 2006, 02:25:56 pm
Check that, apparently both SCIAC losses have been at home for Oxy this year, quite surprising.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2006, 02:31:10 pm
Well Pat, how you care or feel really isnt relevant here, now is it??? 

Agreed, but it doesn't keep it from being stupid. :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 17, 2006, 03:31:20 pm
Agreed, but it doesn't keep it from being stupid. :)
You just summed up the SCIAC.......

As the DJ said, of course Oxy can win. The key to Oxy's win against CMS at home this year was the defense that held the Stags to 48 points (Lowest output of the season?).  The Tigers MUST pull down more offensive boards than the 5 they did against Redlands and keep CMS from getting anywhere near the 15 offensive they gave up to the Bulldogs.

I believe CMS only scored 43 against Whittier (15 pts in the 2nd half)  Its tough to get O boards when you shoot 74% or get fouled.  But you are right on keeping CMS off the glass, which Oxy does a great job.  But more importantly, Oxy must keep them out of the paint on their cutting game.

oh, and pardon me for not checking the box of a Redlands/Whittier game :D...
No problem....if I didnt, I couldnt represent my handle then, could I? ;D

And to talk about impressive dunks.............OH MY!!!!! :o

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 17, 2006, 04:37:01 pm
great pic...here's another recent one...from someone slightly above the Sciac level:

edit:  aw it won't let me hotlink, nevermind...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Howlinwolf on February 17, 2006, 08:46:06 pm
Thanks to the "pundits" who posted opinions on the pending Tiger-Stag match-up. No matter the outcome, Ducey should be electric.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 18, 2006, 06:30:42 pm
I find myself wondering how big Ducey is?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 18, 2006, 06:55:59 pm
I think Ducey can hold around 1300 seated people but the Pomona-CMS games sometimes approach 1400-1500 because of the standing room areas.

-- Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 18, 2006, 11:55:38 pm
56-52 cms, 1.43 left
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 18, 2006, 11:58:38 pm
58-52, 22.1
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 19, 2006, 12:03:46 am
62-55 CMS Final
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 19, 2006, 01:06:36 am
so CMS wraps up league right?  it was pretty much a forgone conclusion after beating PP last week anyway.  congrats to them, hopefully Oxy can still make the tourney as an at large
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 19, 2006, 01:12:25 am
I wouldn't say it was a forgone conclusion, but CMS took care of business tonight defeating Occidental in front of a packed Ducey Gymnasium.  The gym was rocking from the tip and the game did not dissapoint.  The game was close the entire way but similar to the Pomona game, CMS held a small lead throughout and pulled it out with their great defense and some costly Oxy turnovers in the end. 

The nets were cut down at  Ducey Gymnasium as the Stags clinched the CO-Championship tonight.  They must win one of their next two games to become the outright champions and earn an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament.

Great win for the Stags.  Mani Maceria came up huge with a big 2-handed dunk on Sam Betty and maybe even another Tiger around there.  He hit numerous 15 foot jumpshots as Zach Phillips was sagging off him for some reason.  These jumpers were the Stags main offense in the final 5 min.  John Parsons and Miles Taylor also led the Stags as Parsons controlled the offense and Taylor was unstoppable in the post fouling out Kostic late in the game.  For Oxy, Phillips had a big game and Connor Whitman hit a few big threes to keep Oxy in it late.  Betty was solid but did not have a huge MVP caliber game.  In the end, the  Stags pulled it out as they have done all of the SCIAC except for their lone loss.  Congrats to the SCIAC Champion STAGS!

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 19, 2006, 01:37:17 am
Here's the Box: http://cms.claremont.edu/team/men%27sbasketball/05-06/oxy-cms.htm#GAME.BOX

As far as the All-SCIAC teams go, I would say Taylor gets MVP with Parsons and Maceira getting first team nods.  The other two starters, Winterbottom and Borengasser, will probably end up on the second team.  Anyone else have predictions for the entire league?

I am hoping Occidental can take care of business next week so we can get two SCIAC teams in the tournament.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2006, 02:10:57 am
This only clinches a tie for the title -- Oxy could win out and finish 11-3, with CMS losing out and finishing 11-3, forcing a playoff.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sagecock on February 20, 2006, 01:17:09 am
Following saturday's PP-CLU game I'm glad to report that Cal Lu's fans remain some of the classiest in the SCIAC.  Improving upon their inventive "you are gay" chant began during the Oxy game, Cal Lu's fans took a page from another religious institution and began chanting "Brokeback Mountain" at Pomona's Tom Hollo while he was shooting freethrows.  It's reassuring to know that Cal Lu fans are watching the news and staying abrest of current social debates.

http://www.kirotv.com/sports/7011667/detail.html?rss=sea&psp=sports

As always, you stay classy Cal Lu

p.s.  Looking foward to the Oxy-PP game tommorow night, hopefully the Hens can bring it and pull down a 2nd place finish for this season
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 03:18:32 am
Alright, I gotta ask -- is there a reading problem in Southern California?

I ask because this week I got two e-mails and a phone call from readers asking why we didn't note Amir Mazerei's 57 points and Redlands' win against Occidental on the front page.

Of course, we did note it on the front page, about an hour after the game was over, in fact.

Tonight I got an e-mail from a Claremont-McKenna student asking why we hadn't posted CMS' win against Occidental on the front page. And of course, we did post it on the front page, mere minutes after the game ended!

What is the deal, people? Is it too much to read the front page before complaining??
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 20, 2006, 10:37:30 am
Excellent game played by CMS to clinch a share of the SCIAC Saturday.  They truly proved they are the best team in the conference.  My respect for Scalmanini as a coach has continued to grow over the last few years - this year he got  more out of his players than anyone else.  This is his first conference title with players he recruited solely ('02 seniors Donlan & Co. had been recruited by Coach Wells).  He also seems to be a really cool guy, going out of his way to say "hello" or "thanks" to the fans before or after a game.

Nice effort by Phillips in the Oxy loss.  He seemed to want it more than the rest of his team combined - probably because he's a senior and won't get another shot.  Glad that he won it at least once with the 2003 squad.

I was very impressed with the Oxy turnout Saturday, and with the way they handled themselves.  In my opinion, they are overall the classiest, most knowledgeable and most supportive fans in the conference.  If Oxy Bob or any any other Oxy poster has influence in this, they are to be commended.

BTW, nice summary of the game itself, Stags4Life.  I would have posted my own but there was really nothing much I could add to what you posted.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Howlinwolf on February 20, 2006, 05:02:29 pm
Good call, K.C., regarding the Oxy fans. I concur. Credit must go to the student "ringleaders" of the Oxy cheering section.  They set the standard, and they've been incredible representatives of Oxy all year. My hats off to them. While the CMS crowd chipped in with their "BS" and "Claremont rejects" chants, the Oxy fans maintained their poise and class. Good students, good people.

An Oxy win tonight may insure double SCIAC inclusion in the playoffs. Hope they bring their 'A' game.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 20, 2006, 05:52:43 pm
I am sitting here anxious for the game tonight @ PP.  When the schedule first came out, I noticed the @ CMS, @ PP matchups towards the end of the year.  Two trips to Claremont in two days is never easy, regardless of what's at stake.

Win tonight first, then win vs. Caltech on Thursday.  The   Caltech game cannot be overlooked either. 

GO TIGERS!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 20, 2006, 06:23:24 pm
I was very impressed with the Oxy turnout Saturday, and with the way they handled themselves.  In my opinion, they are overall the classiest, most knowledgeable and most supportive fans in the conference.  If Oxy Bob or any any other Oxy poster has influence in this, they are to be commended.

Thanks for the compliment.  Myself, Eye of the Tiger, and El Tigre are actually helping Coach Newhall out with the rooter buses and organizing the student section. 

Can't wait for the game tonight.  Whitman had a huge game against Pomona in the first half of SCIAC play [9-17 FG%, including 6 three pointers], and Betty who's been in a funk lately played a great game against the Sagehens finishing with 17 points and 8 rebounds.  Look for them to take control of the game and lead the Tigers to a "W".

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 20, 2006, 07:03:14 pm
BTW, nice summary of the game itself, Stags4Life.  I would have posted my own but there was really nothing much I could add to what you posted.

Thanks K.C., I was also impressed with the Oxy fans, they are very supportive and classy.  They even clapped for CMS as the crowd rushed the floor.  Although, I am not a fan of the "**** the Tigers" chants, I do not mind the "Claremont Rejects" chant.  There is definitely a line that is crossed many times by fans and the Oxy fans are really good at never crossing it.  Credit goes out mostly to the students who lead the chants as the other fans just follow along. 

As far as Scalmanini goes, I think he is one of the best, if not the best coach in the SCIAC right now.  He utilized what he had this year to its full potential and really got the best out of his players.  He is a great guy on and off the court and I look forward to see how much he can accomplish during the rest of his career.

Good Luck to Oxy tonight at Pomona and hopefully CMS can clinch the automatic berth at La Verne. 

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 21, 2006, 12:13:46 am
Oxy 56
Pomona-Pitzer 56
OT

Knowles hits a 3 with 5 seconds left to tie the game for Pomona.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Lord Chaos on February 21, 2006, 12:25:42 am
Knowles can hit that three.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 21, 2006, 12:26:50 am
Oxy  63
Pomona-Pitzer 67

Final.

Oxy had a chance, but did not get  three important defensive boards.  PP scores the last 7 of OT.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Lord Chaos on February 21, 2006, 12:28:44 am
is anyone following the stags vs. la verne game?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: fosheezie on February 21, 2006, 12:39:43 am
Great to see the Sagecocks get a big win over Oxy.  My man Knowles is great under pressure.  Too bad it gets the Stags the title.  But the difference between PP, Oxy, and CMS, is who gets the bounces or makes that one play at the end.  All losses PP has had are close ones, so the SCIAC once again proves to be very even.

On a memorable note.  Last game ever for the Kingsman in their airplane hanger.  No more deadspots, bad flip scoreboards, non-inventive football geeks, or Coach Daines yelling in your ear what you are running before it is even called.  They will move across the street in a building that will do nothing but strengthen their recruiting and make them tougher next year.  Already my prediction for next year is a Kingsmen title.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Lord Chaos on February 21, 2006, 12:43:36 am
i don't think thats true about cms, pp and oxy being diffrentiated by their last minute plays. in the past games, its been clear that cms has been the dominant team, seeing as it that they beat oxy by a fair margin. i do see that pp lost by 5 points in the last game, but they lost by a larger margin in the first stags vs p-p game in ducey. its probably tempting to say that all three are that close, but at the same time, i think that stats speak for themselves. plus, if u actually watched the games, like many of us did, it is quite clear that cms has been the strongest out of the three .
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Lord Chaos on February 21, 2006, 12:54:31 am
just so everyone knows, the stags beat laverne by 5 or something tonight.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 21, 2006, 12:56:16 am
i don't think Fosheezie is arguing that...CMS is clearly the class of the SCIAC this year...but to say they're head and shoulders ahead of Oxy or PP isn't really accurate.  Granted, they blew out the Hens in the first match up, but if PP doesn't drop that horrible choke job at Whittier and Parsons doesn't get that loose ball and dunk it at Pomona, you never know man

with that said, congrats to the Stags...begrudgingly :-\
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Lord Chaos on February 21, 2006, 01:04:43 am
But the difference between PP, Oxy, and CMS, is who gets the bounces or makes that one play at the end. 

I made my point in response to that. I think its very clear that that was what he was arguing. I see what you are saying, and I agree with you, CMS isn't head and shoulders above oxy or pomona, but to say that they are better only by such a miniscule amount (as quote above) is incorrect. Oxy has Betty, PP has Knowles and Lloyd, but CMS has Miles Taylor, Mani Maceira, and John Parsons. That's hard to top.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 21, 2006, 01:16:11 am
Yes, CMS has the better TEAM this year and their record exemplifies that!!!  But DJ hyphen is right, with saying that a few bounces in a different direction, CMS could easily be 2nd or 3rd.  They do have 5 guys that all can shoot a little, dribble a little, pass, and make the fewest mistakes.  They have 5 complete players.  But they arent HEADS and SHOULDERS (or a miniscule amount) above Oxy and PP.....plus you forgot to mention PP's best player in Wexlor-Beron.  That guy hit some unreal jump shots at CLU to keep the Kingsmen at bay on Saturday.

Just like Oxy when they went 14-0, they had some luck on their side to win it....you need it to win the SCIAC. Whether it be a bounce, or an injury....luck plays a part in winning titles.

Great win for the Kingsmen for their final home game in the HANGER!!  Sergei's dunk was the last pts scored in the HOUSE!!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Lord Chaos on February 21, 2006, 01:26:07 am
a few bounces in a different direction, CMS could easily be 2nd or 3rd. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Lord Chaos on February 21, 2006, 01:31:19 am
that is completely untrue. Ur right, luck does have an element in any sports game. a few bounces in a different direction could be said for any game! saying that alone is being a sore loser, and any athlete knows that. Additionally, consider this: the stags beat the sagehens twice, the first being with a fairly large margin. they lost to oxy the first timeby four points, that is true. but then they came back the next game and beat them by seven points, with mani maceira dunking in sam betty's and another defender's face. saying that a few bounces in a direction could place CMS in the second easily at that point is ridiculous. there is a point where luck ceases to be a factor, and CMS crossed that.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 21, 2006, 01:53:47 am
What the heck happened at the Claremont - LaVerne game?  I went to that game first tonight, but left early to check out the PP-Oxy second half.  The reason I left early was that CMS was up 40 to 15!  They were hitting all their shots, and LaVerne was stinking their gym up so bad you couldn't smell the new paint.  I'd like to know if the Stags simply tanked the second half to squeak it out by 2, or LaVerne got red hot.  Stags4Life or another poster who may have seen the whole game, please let me know.

The consolation of leaving that game early was that Oxy-PP was a great game.  I'm not really partial to any particular team, but I was hoping Oxy would pull it out and save their shot at a possible playoff birth.  Do you suppose their non-conference record could still get them in?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 21, 2006, 02:10:47 am
Outstanding game in Pomona tonight, unfortunately the Tigers didn't come out on top.  The Tigers played great basketball, especially during the second half.  Knowles three in the closing seconds of regulation was unreal.  Great shot, though I thought his foot might have been on the line  :-\.

Thought the Tigers played well in the overtime period. Justin Zebb got control of a loose ball inside of the last minute of OT and attempted to call a time out, the ref called for a jump.  It took an important possesion away from the Tigers.

Congrats to Claremont on the SCIAC title.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 21, 2006, 02:11:23 am
Pat -

What is Oxy's chance at still getting a bid to the tournament?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Lord Chaos on February 21, 2006, 02:13:59 am
hey K.C, that was an insane game. ur right, the stags were killin La Verne, but the second half was just unreal. La Verne was doin everything right, they hit their shots, made their assists, got their boards, pretty much a perfect comeback. at the last point, it came down to the three pointers and Parsons' free throws, both of which were not successful. So the Stags held their lead, but it was definitely much too close.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 21, 2006, 02:17:22 am
CMS defeated La Verne 71-69 at the Tents on Monday Night.  The Stags jumped on the Leopards early building a 44-19 halftime lead.  The Leopards then jumped on the Stags closing the gap to 4 with 8 min left.  The game was back and forth from them on, but whenever CMS needed a big shot, Miles Taylor got it for them.  The refereeing was terrible down the stretch as one ref(the bald one) clearly tried to make every call and every one of those calls benefited La Verne.  CMS never trailed the entire game and once again their great defense pulled it out for them in the end.  Miles Taylor finished with 23 points and 9 rebounds on 8-12 FG and 7-7 FT.  I think it's clear who is the MVP of the SCIAC. 

As to how La Verne came back, they just brought more energy in the second half after getting slaughtered in the first.  They actually appeared to have a defense and they hit quite a few threes with hand in face.  Senior Guard, Adrian Ferrera hit 3 huge threes after only having 3 of them the entire year.  Also, seniors Chris Jackson and Bryan Mallon were big in the second half.  Jason Greenlee was practically nonexistant smothered by the Stag Defense. 

The Stags pulled out a narrow victory but their victory did win them the SCIAC Championship outright, not the Oxy loss.  And I do believe that CMS is clearly the better team in the SCIAC this year and I also think this is more apparent this year than in previous years.  CMS had some blowouts and they had some close games but they always finished and it was not because of good luck.  CMS did not choke to teams like Whittier, La Verne, and Redlands; CMS took care of business all year and thats why they are the SCIAC Champions, not because a few bounces went their way.  CMS has the best defense I have seen in the SCIAC in years and it should yield them sucess in the upcoming tournament and hopefully some national respect.

Congrats to the 2006 SCIAC Champion Stags!

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Lord Chaos on February 21, 2006, 02:21:06 am
THANK YOU Stags4Life. I'm gonna have to say a big resounding I AGREE.
LETS GO SCIAC 2006 CHAMPIONS CMS STAGS!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 21, 2006, 02:28:50 am
Thanks. guys.  Wish I could have been in two places at once.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 21, 2006, 02:47:31 am
Oh My God, I just read this: http://d3hoops.com/releases.php?release=46789

Whittier did not deserve to win that game.  If that Caltech center woulda made his other free throw or perhaps Caltech's two best players would not have fouled out with 3 min left in regulation, then Caltech might have won.  Wow, I was sure rooting for Carlson and Ivy to get this win and I am kind of dissapointed they will probably graduate without a SCIAC win, they are two hard working basketball players and deserve respect.  Carlson should make one of the all-SCIAC teams, but its a shame to see that Caltech might not have as good of a chance to win next year without their two best players, Carlson and Ivy.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 21, 2006, 02:54:39 am
Oh My God, I just read this: http://d3hoops.com/releases.php?release=46789

Whittier did not deserve to win that game.  If that Caltech center woulda made his other free throw or perhaps Caltech's two best players would not have fouled out with 3 min left in regulation, then Caltech might have won.  Wow, I was sure rooting for Carlson and Ivy to get this win and I am kind of dissapointed they will probably graduate without a SCIAC win, they are two hard working basketball players and deserve respect.  Carlson should make one of the all-SCIAC teams, but its a shame to see that Caltech might not have as good of a chance to win next year without their two best players,

Sigh. The prince married an ugly stepsister and left Cinderella languishing at home. Snow White was not resuscitated in time. Santa Claus was shot down by a NORAD surface-to-air missile.

Sometimes you just can't buy a happy ending.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 21, 2006, 02:56:08 am
Additionally, consider this: the stags beat the sagehens twice, the first being with a fairly large margin. they lost to oxy the first timeby four points, that is true. but then they came back the next game and beat them by seven points, with mani maceira dunking in sam betty's and another defender's face.


 :D :D :D :D :D man, i got no beef with you...but you sound like you're in 7th grade here.  First off, the idea of saying 'yeah we lost by 4, but then we beat them by 7!!!!" is fairly asinine...games decided by less than 10 are generally pretty close, and often skewed at the end by game extending free throws...the fact that you came out a measely plus 3 in point differential really doesn't prove anything, so calm down.  And tossing in the fact that maceira put two tigers on a poster means absolutely nothing in terms of the overall abilities of the team...that's something that a middle schooler would say

"we only one by 7, but we had huge DUNKS!  yaaaaaay!  that should be worth more points!"

perhaps I read that part wrong, but that's the general vibe i got from it  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 21, 2006, 04:44:04 am
Pat -

What is Oxy's chance at still getting a bid to the tournament?

I don't know if Pat will get around to this room tonight, so I'll try to answer your question. Oxy is in serious trouble as far as a Pool C bid is concerned. There's never a good time of year to go on a three-game losing streak, but doing it at the end of the season, when you're playing nothing but regional games, is the worst possible timing.

Oxy came into this seven-day ranking period in great shape. Even though they were tied with CMS for the SCIAC lead, they were ranked first in the West Region due to a very good QOWI and an 11-1 (.917) regional record that far outstripped anyone else's in the WR. Now, however, they've slipped dramatically in both of those important categories. Coming into tonight's game at Pomona-Pitzer the Tigers had slipped to 26th in the nation in QOWI (10.071). After tonight's loss their QOWI dips to 9.867, which would put them 40th in the nation. That's bubble territory. What's worse is that their remaining game is at home against hapless Caltech. Even a win can only damage the Tigers' QOWI further, because a home win over Caltech is worth only eight QOWI points. That would reduce Oxy's QOWI to a final total of 9.750. By current national QOWI standards, that'd put them in 44th place. Playing Caltech, in other words, becomes a lose-lose contest for the Tigers.

Regional rankings only cover games thru Sunday, so this loss to Pomona-Pitzer won't be reflected in the West Region rankings that'll come out on Wednesday. But the Tigers lost two games in that last ranking period, and only two West Region ranked teams (Wartburg and UW-LaCrosse) lost a game -- they each went 1-1 for the week. Look for Oxy to wind up fourth or fifth in this week's ranking, and then to drop further in the final ranking that only the committee sees on Selection Monday. They may be seventh or eighth in that ranking, or they may even drop out entirely, depending upon how Whitworth or Willamette fares in the NWC tourney.

My guess is that Oxy is not yet out of the Pool C running, but their prospects are dire.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 21, 2006, 08:41:20 am
Besides being an Oxy Alum, I am also a Maryland native.  See the connection, at least in most years (and how I like to think of it in my mind). 

PP                 Duke
CMS              UNC
Oxy               MD


Oh, the bubble.  I think playing Caltech in our final game hurts, but who knows, maybe everyone that is supposed to win their conferences will...(How about a SCIAC tournament.  Oh, I'm dreaming). 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 21, 2006, 12:23:27 pm
I don't know if Pat will get around to this room tonight, so I'll try to answer your question.

Thannks. Great run down, but it sounds bleek for the Tigers tournament chances.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 21, 2006, 12:33:07 pm
dj_hyphen:

>>And tossing in the fact that maceira put two tigers on a poster means absolutely nothing in terms of the overall abilities of the team...that's something that a middle schooler would say<<

The best shot of the night was one by Taylor. He drove the baseline righthanded, but was too far under the basket to shoot, so while in the air he switched hands and spun the ball in lefthanded.

OxyBob


sounds awesome, i'll give him 10 points for that one
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 21, 2006, 01:01:17 pm
Another interesting year in the SCIAC.  Stags came out of nowhere, with inner turmoil and early season losses, to pull it together and play like Champions.  Great job by their staff.  Let's hope they lose the one-and-done-itis that plagues our conference.  If our 3rd best team can spank Amherst, maybe the Stags won't be as fearful.  

2006 Notes from the Sideline:

a.   Shocking conference performance by the Hens.  Two Ls to the Stags, enough said.
b.  Stags championship.  Brace yourself Hen fans, the balance of power among the big three just shifted across campus.
c.  Rare season where one of the Big 3 was knocked off its position.  Look for CLU to rebound next year and put Oxy back in the bottom tier.  
d.  Miles best player, hands down.
e.  Betty ties with PP's starters for biggest personal disappointment.  Strip out the Redlands game on the Road and any SCIAC coach who puts him on the 1st team only does so as an appreciation for his utter domination of Amherst.  The guy's average at best rebounding, defending and passing skills were exploited all conference long.
f.  PP's starters, 2 banners coming in to the year then two Ls to pretty much them same Stag team as last year, enough said.  
g.   Redlands W against Oxy unfortunately for all of us probably will keeps the system in tact.  Can someone please tell me why Coach Smith has Wooden status out there?
h.  Oxy guards giving up 57 to Redlands guard at home in a crucual game for the Tigers.  Yeeeouuchhh!
i.  Whittier continues to be thorn in PP's side.
j.  Oxy undefeated in 1st half of league, 4 Ls in the second half.  Thanks for giving us some national recognition boys, now give us your seat and get to the back of the bus.  
k.  With this board alive and bumping, what better time than a 3 or 4 team conference tournament!  
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on February 21, 2006, 01:46:03 pm
"Knowles three in the closing seconds of regulation was unreal.  Great shot, though I thought his foot might have been on the line"


Oxy Oswald, I hada great view and can assure you it wasn't on the line.

i.  Whittier continues to be thorn in PP's side.

Over the past 3 seasons Whittier is 1-5 against Pomona, over the past 4 they are 2-6 splitting with an injury depleted pomona team that was also affected by players going abroad in 2002-2003. I'd hardly call that a thorn in the side.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 21, 2006, 01:52:57 pm

i.  Whittier continues to be thorn in PP's side.

Over the past 3 seasons Whittier is 1-5 against Pomona, over the past 4 they are 2-6 splitting with an injury depleted pomona team that was also affected by players going abroad in 2002-2003. I'd hardly call that a thorn in the side.



I hate it when facts get in the way...   ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on February 21, 2006, 02:04:54 pm
Congrats to the stags on getting to the top.

These past 4 weeks showed us who would jump out to the top between P-P, the Stags and Oxy. All three 3 showed their best.


Btw--- I must agree with about two points that westcoast pointed out (the rest of them are just nonsense). Points A and B knocked on the door about what happen to the Hens and the stags. No doubt that both turned heads around.
However, this does not mean you have to put Oxy down. THey did everything in their power in both Offense and defense to stay at the top. (Sure oxy will need to be better i ntheir D next year). So my hats off to them.

Heres to hoping that two Sciac teams go into post-play
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 21, 2006, 02:31:59 pm
Any bottom tier team that takes a game from Kats is a thorn in PP's side.  His won-loss record against Wh, Red & LV is sick.  Whittier got PP once this year and almost got them on the road.  Granted, a slight exaggeration on Betty (he should get some 1st team votes because he still is a monster on O who teams have to focus on).  Maybe I was harsh on Oxy but up until mid-way through SCIAC they raised the bar so high, it is difficult not to comment on the collapse.      

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 21, 2006, 02:42:25 pm
WCW, I am in agreement with most of what you said.  However, this was NOT the same CMS team as last year.  Didn't see CalLu play, but Maceira was the best newcomer and was a big difference maker and put them over the top.  (Sorry for the run-on).   I'd be careful with that balance of power thing, as well.  I think the league will be up for grabs with Taylor, Parsons, W-Beron and Lloyd (finally!) leaving campus. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 21, 2006, 02:47:17 pm
Oxy's issue were perimter D.  Laverne shot the lights out, Whittier did, for a half, and UOR did.    CMS was just better.

As for last night, let's face it, PP got a ton of breaks last night (65% team hitting all but 3 FT's, unbelievable bounces on Knowles' 3 and Porter's FT, the tie-up that could've gone either way), not to mention picking up a Jordan-esque foul call just about every time they went to the basket.  Not to take anything away from PP"s gritty effort, and I know I'll get static from the PP faithful, but karma was on their side last night.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sagecock on February 21, 2006, 02:59:03 pm
Quote
g.   Redlands W against Oxy unfortunately for all of us probably will keeps the system in tact.  Can someone please tell me why Coach Smith has Wooden status out there?

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with hime being the AD, I imagine a conversation like this occuring at the end of this season:

AD Smith: Coach, we need to make a change at the top.  Somthing is just not working with this system.
Coach Smith:  I disagree, did you see that you beat Oxy?
AD Smith:  That was pretty impressive...
Coach Smith:  You can say that again, Maziari is unreal!  Why if I could get in another 4 players like him we'd be SCIAC champs!
AD SMith:  Jesus, you're right!  Welcome back for another year Coach.

tigersports:  Karma being what it may, there were questionable calls in both Oxy-PP games...I've been on the end of great SCIAC officiating myself, so I say, forget playing the "well if this had happened..." game and lets just agree that SCAIC officiating is less than terrific

WestCoast:  As far as the balance of power shifting across 6th, I'd say it will definitely be interesting next year.  Hens return Knowles (best PG in the league), Porter, Haydir and Jabari Reynolds.  Reynolds didn't contribute as much as he should have this year to issues outside of his control, but look for him to provide some offensive spark that the Hens were missing this year.  True the stags get Maciera and 4 other substantial contributers back, but they lose Parsons and Taylor, two HUGE contributers.  If anything, I'd argue that next year is entirely up for grabs.

I'll be out at the Redlands-PP game on Thursday along with 30 other Pomona rowdies...hopefully we can send a great senior class out with a win.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 21, 2006, 03:22:28 pm
"Knowles three in the closing seconds of regulation was unreal.  Great shot, though I thought his foot might have been on the line"


Oxy Oswald, I hada great view and can assure you it wasn't on the line.

I'll take your word for it, Oxy fans were on the other side of the court.  We did have a great view for the blown jump ball call towards the end of the OT period.  Zebb had control and was calling for a timeout.

Just a bounce that went PP's way.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2006, 03:37:30 pm
I just wanted to say, it's great to see so much activity on this board and I hope you guys a) follow football and b) come back next November for basketball!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 21, 2006, 04:07:36 pm
Quote
g.   Redlands W against Oxy unfortunately for all of us probably will keeps the system in tact.  Can someone please tell me why Coach Smith has Wooden status out there?

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with hime being the AD

Again, I hate when facts get in the way...Gary Smith is NOT the AD at Redlands...and the comparison to Wooden is more than likely a comparison to the man, not the coach.  And, very few can compare to Wooden on either level.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 21, 2006, 04:33:25 pm
Sagecock, I couldn't agree more about SCIAC officiating, a point that we make quite often on our broadcasts (subtly and otherwise).   It's part of the game like bad lights at Oxy or a short floor at CalLu.  My point really was that bad officiating evens out over a long haul, like bad hops in baseball, lucky bounces in football, etc.  In other words, it's a random distribution of ineptitude.  There are always anomalies in random distributions and last night's was one.  They called that crappy jump ball, missed a key goaltending call anc called everything when a man went to the hoop, regardless of contact, so credit PP for recognizing that.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 21, 2006, 05:01:15 pm
PC, use your magic to get Oxy in and we'll do one better, we'll stay here all summer      8).

Sage, that imaginary conversation still has me on the ground.

OxyBob, I agree with you and love how you coined the Redlands's system as a travelling freak show. 

I'm going to revise my Betty opinion just based on one play alone.  When Lloyd went in to flush it on him last night and he blocked it with two hands and came down with the ball, I think he made a statement about the ongoing debate here this year about who is the better athlete.   Lloyd got the last laugh with the W but he'll be shaking his head about that play by Betty for some time.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 21, 2006, 05:17:20 pm
I don't get why WCW is always demeaning Oxy with the "Big 3" talk, either. Look at how this league has turned out over the past four years. This season Oxy will finish in second place. Last season they finished third. The season before they finished fourth, but only a game out of second place and two games out of first. The season before that, of course, they had the best season of any SCIAC team in the D3 era, running the table in the league and making it all the way to the Elite Eight.

Here are the SCIAC's cumulative records over the past four seasons:

Oxy 41-14 (.745), 1 title
CMS 40-15 (.727), 1 title
PP 38-17 (.691), 2 titles
CLU 33-22 (.600)
LaV 25-30 (.455)
Whit 22-33 (.400)
Redl 21-34 (.382)
Ctech 0-55 (.000)

There may have been such a thing as the "Big 3" in the past, but the record over the past four years shows that such a label is now outmoded if it's being used to exclude Oxy. The Tigers are clearly among the SCIAC elite now.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 21, 2006, 06:33:23 pm
Amen, Sager.  I always bristled when I hear that Big 3 talk, especially given Oxy's recent run and CalLu's lack of anything for now 5 years.   I never brought myself to post on the issue, but thanks for saying what I thought.  WCW, I still love you bro' -- almost as much as I love Scali and Taylor.   :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 21, 2006, 07:37:18 pm
Amen, Sager.  I always bristled when I hear that Big 3 talk, especially given Oxy's recent run and CalLu's lack of anything for now 5 years. 

Really...a lack of anything for 5 yrs now??
OK
2001 - SCIAC champs - 12-2     Oxy @ 8-6
2002 - 12-2 (2nd to CMS 11-1) Oxy @ 9-5
2003 - 10-4 (2nd to Oxy) and ahead of CMS by 2 games and PP (6th) by 4 games
2004 - 10-4 (2nd to PP 11-3)   Oxy @ 9-5
2005 - 7-7                                Oxy @ 9-5
2006 - starting 4 sophs and 1 freshmen....one of which had any SCIAC experience.

With PP losing 4 starters, Whittier losing 6 seniors, Laverne losing 7 seniors that play, Oxy losing Phillips/Marvin, CMS losing Taylor/Parsons, CIT losing Carlson/Ivy....and Redlands well being Redlands.....I have a feeling you will be eating your words come the next few years.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 21, 2006, 07:48:27 pm
All SCIAC predictions:
MVP - Taylor (dont be surprised as Co-MVP w/ Parsons)

1st Team
Betty - Oxy
Wex-Beron - PP
Parsons - CMS
Maceria - CMS
Greenlee - ULV
LLoyd - PP

2nd Team
Knowles - PP - (if no more room at 1st team)
Phillips - Oxy
Mazarei - Redlands
Whitman - Oxy
Carlson - CIT
one or the other with (Lepiashinski or Miller from CLU or Farlough from Whit)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 21, 2006, 08:57:38 pm
All SCIAC predictions:
MVP - Taylor

1st Team
Betty - Oxy
Wex-Beron - PP
Parsons - CMS
Maceria - CMS
Phillips - Oxy
Knowles - PP

2nd Team
Lloyd - PP
Greenlee - ULV
Mazarei - Redlands
Whitman - Oxy
Carlson - CIT
Lepiashinski - CLU
Quote
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 21, 2006, 08:59:03 pm
MY PICKS(a little different)

All SCIAC predictions:
MVP - Taylor (dont be surprised as Co-MVP w/ Parsons)

1st Team
Betty - Oxy
Wex-Beron - PP
Parsons - CMS
Maceria - CMS
Phillips - Oxy
Knowles - PP

2nd Team
Lloyd - PP
Greenlee - ULV
Mazarei - Redlands
Whitman - Oxy
Carlson - CIT
Lepiashinski - CLU
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 21, 2006, 10:45:46 pm
Quote
What is the deal, people? Is it too much to read the front page before complaining??

Must be the smog.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 21, 2006, 11:14:55 pm
Guru, thanks for beating me to the punch.  Also, if you are going to look at 4 years, why not look at 10, at 14.  Oxy, more than anyone, has knocked on the door of the Big 3 but year in and year out, since CLU joined the conference, this thing has been about the Big 3.  But as Sagers & PC know, I say that partly tongue in cheek because before Oxy's '03 run, the Big 3 is really a laughable concept outside of the southland.  The more appropriate moniker would be 'the Big Nada'.   Which, by default, would make everyone else 'the Nada de Nada'. 

But there is hope that the times are changing (notably Oxy trying to turn this conference national rep on its head) and I'm looking for the Stags to bring back a pair of wins from the Tourney this year.  Won't be easy and our conference's historical failings should make them a HUGE underdog no matter who they play.  CMS plays well in that position and just might be able to pull it off.        
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 22, 2006, 12:38:54 am
sciacguru:

tigersports said: "Amen, Sager.  I always bristled when I hear that Big 3 talk, especially given Oxy's recent run and CalLu's lack of anything for now 5 years."

You replied: "Really...a lack of anything for 5 yrs now??"

Answer: Yes, CLU hasn't won the conference since the 2000-2001 season. That was six years ago.

You're also probably one of those people who think the new millenium started in 2000.

Not to detract from Oxy's success, or to make an argument for a Big Three instead of Big Four.  But 2 tough seasons in a row does not mean that the Kingsmen haven't done anything for 5 years now.

No, they may not have been championship seasons, but there have been plenty of years when those records would have been good enough for at least a share of the conference title.

Regardless of when you start the millenium, Cal Lu has a tradition of success in the SCIAC.  I like their chances next year, especially if Minney is back in the mix.

That said, I hope the committee sneaks the Tigers in...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 22, 2006, 01:42:15 am
Ok Oxy Bob...since you like to insult the intelligence of the CLU folks.  Here's a math question for you that should be easy.

Since joining the league in 91 - CLU has won 4 titles....and your beloved Oxy - 1.
So CLU wins the title 1 every 3.75 years
Oxy wins the title every...uhhh...15 years

Oh, ok, so you will come back that it was Dunlap that won the titles and not Rider.....I believe this is Rider's 12 or 13th year and has been 1st or 2nd for 10 of those years.
Newhall has been there how long???  18 or 19 and hmmmmmmmm won 1 title and how many 2nd places???  I believe none...oops...I forgot about this year  ;)

So is Oxy still considered apart of the elite?  Currently yes.....Historically.....Well, you do the math.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 22, 2006, 02:16:28 am
Guru, thanks for beating me to the punch.  Also, if you are going to look at 4 years, why not look at 10, at 14.

Ok Oxy Bob...since you like to insult the intelligence of the CLU folks. Here's a math question for you that should be easy.

Since joining the league in 91 - CLU has won 4 titles....and your beloved Oxy - 1.
So CLU wins the title 1 every 3.75 years
Oxy wins the title every...uhhh...15 years

Oh, ok, so you will come back that it was Dunlap that won the titles and not Rider.....I believe this is Rider's 12 or 13th year and has been 1st or 2nd for 10 of those years.
Newhall has been there how long??? 18 or 19 and hmmmmmmmm won 1 title and how many 2nd places??? I believe none...oops...I forgot about this year ;)

So is Oxy still considered apart of the elite? Currently yes.....Historically.....Well, you do the math.


You can draw the line anywhere you like, but the further back you draw it the less applicable it becomes to the here-and-now, because you end up diluting the present and the recent past. WCW and Guru, do you really think that 1996 is as relevant to the current power structure of the SCIAC as is 2006? Or that 1994 is as relevant as 2004?

Four-year increments tend to be good indicators of where a program is in the present, because four years is the span of a student-athlete's career. And all I'm concerned with here is the present ... and in the present, Oxy is very much a part of the Big 3, or the Big 4, or whatever Big you want to construct in order to define hegemony within the SCIAC.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on February 22, 2006, 04:33:38 am
As for last night, let's face it, PP got a ton of breaks last night (65% team hitting all but 3 FT's, unbelievable bounces on Knowles' 3 and Porter's FT, the tie-up that could've gone either way), not to mention picking up a Jordan-esque foul call just about every time they went to the basket.  Not to take anything away from PP"s gritty effort, and I know I'll get static from the PP faithful, but karma was on their side last night.

You will get static, if you want to talk about bad calls you should also mention the two offensive fouls on Lloyd, or the over the back calls on Porter that could have also gone  against Betty on a couple tap-ins.

As to your jump ball complaint, Oswald, I asked lloyd after the game. Here's a direct quote "absolutely I had my hand on the ball before he started yellying time out, if they'd given them that TO it would have been awful. That said...all the oxy players were right in the first half when they wanted a goal tend on Alexander's lay-up"...Refs aren't perfect if they'd called hand checking fouls in game one, maybe lloyd would have shot more then ZERO free throws and PP would have won both, but they didn't.

Also,  tough one for the Techies I would have loved to see them get a W in league finally
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 22, 2006, 09:30:57 am
Last time I checked, nobody from the 1996 or 2000 squads are still around...so this shouldn't even be an issue.  Historically, yes, Oxy was not part of the "Big 3." 

Right now, however, you can't talk about the SCIAC without at the very least mentioning the Tigers.

Hopefully this year will be different, but I don't seem to remember the "Big 3" making any kind of noise in post-season.

Good luck to CMS and maybe the NCAA will be nice to the Tigers.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on February 22, 2006, 10:40:58 am
Oxyfan, Tigersports , etc......
I have a question for you guys
 
why does it always have to be that people will always bring up their schools past records and not their present records to make an argument? THis was the same thing that was mentioned about a couple of football programs in the SCIAC board.

Granted that some of these schools where indeed powerhouses in the past, but these fans will do anything to bring that up. Sure we have to congradulate them for their past success but we have to look at the present and not the past. Oxy has done well in B-ball and football for the past 5 years since the start of a new millinium. Schools will do anything in their power to change their past and do better for the future. THerefore, i think we should all look at the present, stop bring up and the past and just kill this topic...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on February 22, 2006, 10:42:03 am
Btw----

Congrats to the stags and yes lets pray for the powers that be to allow to SCIAC teams into postplay
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on February 22, 2006, 11:27:21 am
I'll post this here because I don't think anyone's checked the Women's board in the last 6 months...

Thanks, Pat, for putting the Regals on the front page in honor of their second straight SCIAC championship.  I caught the last half of the broadcast and it was an awesome comeback - I think they were down 13 or 14 at one point in the second half.  Lauren Stroot had a great game but several other players stepped up down the stretch.

Between Lepiashanski's dunk and Shim's game winner with 3 seconds left both the Men and Women got a chance to close out the scoring in the old gym in style. 

I wish the Regals luck in the postseason.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2006, 12:36:33 pm
I'll post this here because I don't think anyone's checked the Women's board in the last 6 months...

Thanks, Pat, for putting the Regals on the front page in honor of their second straight SCIAC championship.  I caught the last half of the broadcast and it was an awesome comeback - I think they were down 13 or 14 at one point in the second half.  Lauren Stroot ahd a great game but several other player's stepped up down the stretch.

No problem. It wouldn't have been possible, though, without CLU putting game-day photos on its web site.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 22, 2006, 12:40:24 pm
I'll post this here because I don't think anyone's checked the Women's board in the last 6 months...

Thanks, Pat, for putting the Regals on the front page in honor of their second straight SCIAC championship.  I caught the last half of the broadcast and it was an awesome comeback - I think they were down 13 or 14 at one point in the second half.  Lauren Stroot had a great game but several other players stepped up down the stretch.

Between Lepiashanski's dunk and Shim's game winner with 3 seconds left both the Men and Women got a chance to close out the scoring in the old gym in style. 

I wish the Regals luck in the postseason.

Congrats to the Regals, it was good news when I read that on the front page this morning.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 22, 2006, 02:36:37 pm
Quote
What is the deal, people? Is it too much to read the front page before complaining??
Must be the smog.
Actually, the number of days that we are out of attainment for PM-10 and PM-2.5 isn't as bad in the winter during the basketball season. No excuses. :P ;)

I still think the Greg's mock argument about whether sky is blue post is the funniest post I've ever read... but your post had me laughing pretty hard Sage!  :D

I've decided that Oxy HATES me... here I was, totally and completely overwhelmingly psyched, because Oxy was a shoo in to host a first round sectional, and a good shot at the second one due to their awesome SOSI, top regional ranking, and in region record... and now they might now even make the playoffs? And the SCIAC might not get a single playoff home game??? Waaah!  :'( >:( :( :-[ :-\ ???

I am probably the only person in the world who wants to summer in CA and winter in the Midwest.  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 22, 2006, 02:39:37 pm
"OXY BASKETBALL When It Rains It Pours"

^ quote from the official site  :-[
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 22, 2006, 03:49:15 pm
Look for Oxy to wind up fourth or fifth in this week's ranking, and then to drop further in the final ranking that only the committee sees on Selection Monday. They may be seventh or eighth in that ranking, or they may even drop out entirely, depending upon how Whitworth or Willamette fares in the NWC tourney.

My guess is that Oxy is not yet out of the Pool C running, but their prospects are dire.

on the plus side... the answer is fourth, instead of fifth  :-\

http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=141

but the real plus is that oxy is ranked above all teams which are currently second in their conference... the only upset in the conference tourney is Whitewater or La Crosse upsetting stout, Oxy could still be the second or third Pool C candidate from the region.

The chances are still dire... but maybe not THAT dire?  ???
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 22, 2006, 06:07:07 pm
Quote
"OXY BASKETBALL When It Rains It Pours"

^ quote from the official site   

Diehard, I'm glad that someone "got" this.  You should know, though, that this was not from the official Oxy site.  It was from oxybroadcast.com, which is the official site of only my living room.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 22, 2006, 06:52:05 pm
 :D I just figured since there was a direct link from the oxy site...  :D

thanks for the fyi  :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 22, 2006, 10:03:03 pm
No worries
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 23, 2006, 03:06:21 am
on the plus side... the answer is fourth, instead of fifth  :-\

http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=141

but the real plus is that oxy is ranked above all teams which are currently second in their conference... the only upset in the conference tourney is Whitewater or La Crosse upsetting stout, Oxy could still be the second or third Pool C candidate from the region.

The chances are still dire... but maybe not THAT dire?  ???

I am not completely sure, but I do not think those rankings include the Pomona loss, look for that loss and a Caltech win to drop Oxy a spot or two down the rankings.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2006, 04:39:30 am
I am not completely sure, but I do not think those rankings include the Pomona loss, look for that loss and a Caltech win to drop Oxy a spot or two down the rankings.

--Stags4Life

Exactly. That's why I said that the situation was worse for Oxy than would be indicated by Wednesday's ranking. It doesn't reflect either the Pomona-Pitzer loss or the upcoming Pyrrhic victory over Caltech.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on February 23, 2006, 12:19:25 pm
I am not completely sure, but I do not think those rankings include the Pomona loss, look for that loss and a Caltech win to drop Oxy a spot or two down the rankings.

--Stags4Life

Exactly. That's why I said that the situation was worse for Oxy than would be indicated by Wednesday's ranking. It doesn't reflect either the Pomona-Pitzer loss or the upcoming Pyrrhic victory over Caltech.

Let's not write-off Caltech just yet. Tonight might just offer that perfect storm in which they could win. They seem to playing well, and Oxy . . . well, isn't playing as well as they were earlier in the season.

I'm not hoping for a loss for my Tigers. I just won't be surprised if they help Caltech get over their eternal slump.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 23, 2006, 12:55:24 pm
Come on, do we really think Caltech is going to give Oxy a game?...Oxy, despite the losses, isn't playing that poorly.  An overtime loss on the road to  Pomona-Pitzer (traditionally, the class of the league), a close loss on the road to CMS, the best team in the conference, and a close loss to Redlands on a night when they are hitting their shots and Mazarei goes off the chart (the ol' any given night scenario)...to me this doesn't represent Oxy as a poor team...so I just don't see them even letting Caltech be in the game at all...especially with hopes of a post season still looming.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 23, 2006, 01:00:52 pm
I am not completely sure, but I do not think those rankings include the Pomona loss, look for that loss and a Caltech win to drop Oxy a spot or two down the rankings.
Exactly. That's why I said that the situation was worse for Oxy than would be indicated by Wednesday's ranking. It doesn't reflect either the Pomona-Pitzer loss or the upcoming Pyrrhic victory over Caltech.

Hmmm... thought I said that... guess I didn't exactly do that. I guess I was expecting reader to make the leap they were currently fourth and going to stay fourth, their chances would have been excellent for a C bid. If they hadn't lost to PP, or that game was counted in this ranking, they would have simply remained fourth in the regional rankings, and first in line for a pool C.

Their loss, and the corresponding drop in the poll is what will make them the second or third west team in line to get a pool c.
That's what I meant when I said even if "the only upset in the conference tourney is Whitewater or La Crosse upsetting stout, Oxy could still be the second or third Pool C candidate from the region."

I didn't lay my argument out clearly at all. But this is a little more detail about what I think and why I think it.

The next two teams in the rankings (who were going to pass Oxy in the next rankings anyway) are the only ones who will probably upset anyone ranked above them. That means that even with conference upset concerns, Oxy will still be looking at the 2-3 slot in line for a Pool C for the West region. This is a little better than the situation in other regions, where conference upsets will affect teams on the Pool C bubble much more... does that make sense? Oxy's chances are certainly dire, but they are perhaps better than the most dire of dire?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 23, 2006, 01:02:49 pm
Despite my hopes that Oxy still has a chance to get a C bid, let me just say this.

I don't know if Cal Tech will win, but I'm a sure as heck gonna be there to cheer them on!

Go Cal Tech! 20 billion seasons without a D3 win no more!  ;D :-*
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on February 23, 2006, 01:46:11 pm
Assuming they both win Pomona will have a better regional record, and have finished with wins @ LV, @Redlands, vs OXY, and @ Cal Lu, while Oxy finishes with a Loss to CMS, Pomona, Redlands (@HOME), and a win of the Tech, and an earlier HOME loss to LV. I can't see how they're any more deserving of a bid then PP, if I had to hope for one of the two schools to get in I'd pull for PP if only because I think the PP CMS rematch would be great
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 23, 2006, 01:57:22 pm
Come on, do we really think Caltech is going to give Oxy a game?...Oxy, despite the losses, isn't playing that poorly.  An overtime loss on the road to  Pomona-Pitzer (traditionally, the class of the league), a close loss on the road to CMS, the best team in the conference, and a close loss to Redlands on a night when they are hitting their shots and Mazarei goes off the chart (the ol' any given night scenario)...to me this doesn't represent Oxy as a poor team...so I just don't see them even letting Caltech be in the game at all...especially with hopes of a post season still looming.

I do not believe that any given night situation as much as you think it applies to the Redlands game.  Mazarei should not have scored 57 points on a good defensive team.  CMS defeated Redlands 128-70 and I do not believe this is a result of poor shooting by Redlands.  CMS has the best defense in the SCIAC and they shut down Redlands' offense and executed perfectly on their offense to blowout Redlands.  There is no way Mazarei would have scored 57 on CMS and the fact that some Oxy fans blame that loss on "any given night" is ridiculous.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 23, 2006, 02:54:47 pm

I didn't go to Caltech, but I know a little about statistics, including logistic regression and cluster analysis of multivariate data. Based on my analysis, Caltech has exactly three chances of beating Oxy -- slim, none and fat.

OxyBob

I am sorry OxyBob, but you're wrong.  Tonight is Carlson and Ivy's final chance to get a win.  They will be bringing everything they have.  Oxy, on the other hand, will be playing "Caltech" which means the motivated Oxy team that lost to CMS and Pomona will not be playing tonight.  This game is a lose-lose game for Oxy in the regional rankings so really what motivation does Oxy have besides winning and hoping for the best on Sunday Night.  Oxy has already lost two games at home due to poor defense and I would not be surprised if that poor defense showed up tonight.  Caltech definitely has a chance to beat Oxy tonight and if Oxy believes otherwise, then they might be in store for a miracle which would wrap up one of the greatest late season collapses in recent history. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on February 23, 2006, 03:53:50 pm
Come on, do we really think Caltech is going to give Oxy a game?...Oxy, despite the losses, isn't playing that poorly.  An overtime loss on the road to  Pomona-Pitzer (traditionally, the class of the league), a close loss on the road to CMS, the best team in the conference, and a close loss to Redlands on a night when they are hitting their shots and Mazarei goes off the chart (the ol' any given night scenario)...to me this doesn't represent Oxy as a poor team...so I just don't see them even letting Caltech be in the game at all...especially with hopes of a post season still looming.

I hope you're right. However, "the ol' any given night scenario" you use in Oxy's defense can also be used against it. This just might be Caltech's given night.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on February 23, 2006, 03:57:19 pm
Assuming they both win Pomona will have a better regional record, and have finished with wins @ LV, @Redlands, vs OXY, and @ Cal Lu, while Oxy finishes with a Loss to CMS, Pomona, Redlands (@HOME), and a win of the Tech, and an earlier HOME loss to LV. I can't see how they're any more deserving of a bid then PP, if I had to hope for one of the two schools to get in I'd pull for PP if only because I think the PP CMS rematch would be great

Has any other school besides Oxy offered anything for us to brag about in the post-season? PP's had their chances. I sure would hate to see a bid go to the infamous one-and-done crew.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 23, 2006, 04:19:57 pm
Has any other school besides Oxy offered anything for us to brag about in the post-season? PP's had their chances. I sure would hate to see a bid go to the infamous one-and-done crew.

I believe that CMS will represent the SCIAC well with them playing the winner of the Independent tourney....Chapman or Neb Wesleyan....if one of those two teams sweep that tourney...I believe they have a great chance of getting in...and I do believe CMS can go up to the NWC and win there.

And as much as I dislike all of Oxy Bob's "stuck-up" posts, Cal Tech is not winning at Oxy!!(cuz noone will score 57 pts)  Even CLU held Amir to 16 and 18 pts.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 23, 2006, 04:24:53 pm

I do not believe that any given night situation as much as you think it applies to the Redlands game.  Mazarei should not have scored 57 points on a good defensive team.  CMS defeated Redlands 128-70 and I do not believe this is a result of poor shooting by Redlands.  CMS has the best defense in the SCIAC and they shut down Redlands' offense and executed perfectly on their offense to blowout Redlands.  There is no way Mazarei would have scored 57 on CMS and the fact that some Oxy fans blame that loss on "any given night" is ridiculous.

--Stags4Life

For a Stags fan, you sure don't do much for the reputation...If Oxy is so bad, how did CMS lose to them once and have such a narrow victory on their own home floor
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 23, 2006, 04:25:57 pm
Come on, do we really think Caltech is going to give Oxy a game?...Oxy, despite the losses, isn't playing that poorly.  An overtime loss on the road to  Pomona-Pitzer (traditionally, the class of the league), a close loss on the road to CMS, the best team in the conference, and a close loss to Redlands on a night when they are hitting their shots and Mazarei goes off the chart (the ol' any given night scenario)...to me this doesn't represent Oxy as a poor team...so I just don't see them even letting Caltech be in the game at all...especially with hopes of a post season still looming.

I hope you're right. However, "the ol' any given night scenario" you use in Oxy's defense can also be used against it. This just might be Caltech's given night.

Touche....good point.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 23, 2006, 08:02:27 pm
It's the old Herb Brooks theory.  "Hey they beat us 9 times out of ten, why can't this be that one out of ten we beat them."  In this case, it's more like 280 (CT's approximate SCIAC losing streak), but you get the picture.  If it happens, oxybroadcast.com will be on SportsCenter BABY!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: fosheezie on February 24, 2006, 12:07:21 am
[Has any other school besides Oxy offered anything for us to brag about in the post-season? PP's had their chances. I sure would hate to see a bid go to the infamous one-and-done crew.
Quote

Wow, cruel words from such an expert.  Have you seen some of the teams PP has played in the playoffs.  In the late 90's it was the Wisconsin teams who were killing everybody (see Wisconsin Plateville)  then lately playing Puget Sound.  People think they are bad because Oxy had one good run, but what you dont realize was that was a phenominal team that wont be seen again for a while.

And speaking of another SCIAC bid, I do say if anyone gets it, it should be PP.  They have been playing well lately.  Its no coincidence that this play is coming as Lloyd is getting in shape.  I know he wont like me saying this, but he's not the same player as before after all the knee injuries, but he is playing better now, and so are the Cocks.  You can't give Oxy a bid after choking their butts off like they did.

One other thing, West Coast Whine job, the balance of power will never shift across the street to CMS, they have one won title this year, they might even win next year, but look at what PP and Katz have done.  Take a look inside the gym at all the titles.  You should name the championship trophy after Katz.

Knowles for 2007 MVP!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on February 24, 2006, 12:20:08 am
Wow, cruel words from such an expert.  Have you seen some of the teams PP has played in the playoffs.  In the late 90's it was the Wisconsin teams who were killing everybody (see Wisconsin Plateville)  then lately playing Puget Sound.  People think they are bad because Oxy had one good run, but what you dont realize was that was a phenominal team that wont be seen again for a while.


I probably could have phrased that one better. Apologies to all. However, I've never set myself up as a bastion of wisdom. I'm ignorant, and I know it.

That said, when it comes down to it, does it really matter who the SCIAC representative plays? A loss is a loss. Any asterisk next to it with explanations and rationale for the loss really is just an excuse. You play the game against the team you get assigned to play. Then you either perform or don't. That part of the sport is pretty cut and dry.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 24, 2006, 01:23:44 am
Fo, we've missed you this year.  I expected you to come here early and woof about this team.  But you were notably silent; makes me wonder if you knew something that the rest of us didn't. 

Sam is right.  It sounds like bottom-tier bitching but it is deserved.  Nothing highlights that like the 20 point schlacking by Amherst this year the night before a less-talented and younger Tiger team handles the east coast prepsters.  Yes, it was at Oxy but it was a winter game and there weren't more than 300 people there. 

Kats has owned the conference and he just hasn't got it done outside of the conference.  As I have always said, he was good enough to be gone to a higher platform long ago.  Too bad for the rest of the conference and lucky for the Hen nation, who all understand that CK has easily been the greatest coach ever at PP.

And the balance of power has shifted.  2 Ls and a conference title prove it.  Maybe it won't be permanent, but they sent to Lloyd to graduate school with a couple of Ls. 

P.S.  What gives with the green light for Knowles?  I love the guy too but he was the first point I've ever Katz give that much of a green light.


 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 24, 2006, 02:02:03 am

I didn't go to Caltech, but I know a little about statistics, including logistic regression and cluster analysis of multivariate data. Based on my analysis, Caltech has exactly three chances of beating Oxy -- slim, none and fat.

OxyBob

I am sorry OxyBob, but you're wrong.  Tonight is Carlson and Ivy's final chance to get a win.  They will be bringing everything they have.  Oxy, on the other hand, will be playing "Caltech" which means the motivated Oxy team that lost to CMS and Pomona will not be playing tonight.  This game is a lose-lose game for Oxy in the regional rankings so really what motivation does Oxy have besides winning and hoping for the best on Sunday Night.  Oxy has already lost two games at home due to poor defense and I would not be surprised if that poor defense showed up tonight.  Caltech definitely has a chance to beat Oxy tonight and if Oxy believes otherwise, then they might be in store for a miracle which would wrap up one of the greatest late season collapses in recent history. 

Well, I'll give you this much: it wasn't a very motivated Oxy team tonight.  They played like they knew they only needed to show up to win, so that's pretty much all they did.  And they won...easily.  Ridiculously easily.  By 34, and it wasn't really that close. 

I felt bad for Caltech's seniors, but somehow I don't think they feel bad for themselves.  They have big futures to get on with.  In the meantime, good luck to Oxy in their slim hopes for a Pool C bid, and good luck to CMS in representing the SCIAC in the tourney.

PS It was nice to meet Tigersports tonight after the game.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 24, 2006, 04:02:23 am
Thanks for the kind words, David.  Nice to meet you and diehard as well.  This was a far different Caltech team than when we did games in years past as they had three guys who could flat out play (Hires, Ivy, Carlson).  It's a far cry from years past when Bird was the only guy who remotely belonged and the rest, though trying very hard and very earnest (and probably making a kajillion dollars by now), just weren't close to being on this level and would struggle in a good IM league.  This team at least belonged on the floor.

Thanks also to those with kind words for my son.  "His majesty" (as we call him right now) is doing fine.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 24, 2006, 04:14:07 am
Well, I'll give you this much: it wasn't a very motivated Oxy team tonight.  They played like they knew they only needed to show up to win, so that's pretty much all they did.  And they won...easily.  Ridiculously easily.  By 34, and it wasn't really that close. 

I felt bad for Caltech's seniors, but somehow I don't think they feel bad for themselves.  They have big futures to get on with.  In the meantime, good luck to Oxy in their slim hopes for a Pool C bid, and good luck to CMS in representing the SCIAC in the tourney.

PS It was nice to meet Tigersports tonight after the game.

Glad you could make it to the game, it was a fun one to watch... not too seroius though.  I was glad some of the guys that don't get to play that often got some good game time in, and they got the crowd into it.

Hopefully the Tigers have a better shot at a Pool C bid than the board seems to think. 

Here's to the season not being over just yet!

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 24, 2006, 01:08:14 pm
Quote
For a Stags fan, you sure don't do much for the reputation...If Oxy is so bad, how did CMS lose to them once and have such a narrow victory on their own home floor
Quote

Well, if Oxy's is so good then, how did they lose to Redlands and La Verne on their home court.  The fact isn't that Oxy is bad, it is that Oxy is inconsistent, especially defensively.  And, I was only offering my opinion that Oxy fans need to stop blaming the "any given night" scenario and realize that their team is inconsistent and might have been a bit overrated.  No one said Oxy is so bad, so before you question my reputation, figure out what I am trying to say.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 24, 2006, 01:33:43 pm
Stags,

Take it easy...you guys are good, really good, despite the early losses to Chapman and the flop at Pacific (NWC)...Miles is by far the most solid, well-rounded player in the league and Parsons (on any given night) can dominate...and I won't even mention Mani...his game speaks for itself.  I'm just saying that you don't need to bash others to make yourself look good, especially when you have a good team to boast about.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 24, 2006, 02:09:59 pm
CMS showed to me that though maybe not head and shoulders, they were the best team in the league this year.   That said, I would hope that they change their tactics a bit as they enter the tourney and get the SCIAC a couple of wins.  Specifically, about half the time (or so it seems) their offense reverts to an NBA style in which Parsons holds the ball until single digits remain on the shot clock and then they hope for Parsons to create.   I love Scali and he and Henry (an NBA guy) have forgotten more than I'll ever know, but I would like to see them a bit more fluid and using the skills that Taylor/Mani/Parsons bring to the table more to the fullest.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Lord Chaos on February 24, 2006, 03:47:06 pm
when is the mvp award typically announced?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 24, 2006, 03:51:51 pm
when is the mvp award typically announced?

We can announce it right now....MILES TAYLOR
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 24, 2006, 04:55:13 pm
CMS showed to me that though maybe not head and shoulders, they were the best team in the league this year.   That said, I would hope that they change their tactics a bit as they enter the tourney and get the SCIAC a couple of wins.  Specifically, about half the time (or so it seems) their offense reverts to an NBA style in which Parsons holds the ball until single digits remain on the shot clock and then they hope for Parsons to create.   I love Scali and he and Henry (an NBA guy) have forgotten more than I'll ever know, but I would like to see them a bit more fluid and using the skills that Taylor/Mani/Parsons bring to the table more to the fullest.

Well said...I agree.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 24, 2006, 07:57:53 pm
Well, based on the QOWI, Oxy is 18th in line for a Pool C... hmm...

1-10
Amherst     12.000     22-1
Lawrence    11.550    20-0
Worcester Polytech    11.091    19-3
Tufts    11.000    19-4
Mississippi College    10.913    22-1
Augustana    10.864    19-3
Trinity (Texas)    10.833    16-2
Lincoln    10.813    12-4 Pool B
St. John Fisher    10.810    20-1
Cortland State    10.667    22-2
               
11-20
Gordon    10.560    22-3
Virginia Wesleyan    10.481    24-3 Already in, Pool A
York (Pa.)    10.400    22-3
Carnegie Mellon    10.389    14-4
William Paterson    10.250    18-6
Bates    10.238    16-5
Wittenberg    10.238    18-3
Wooster    10.227    20-2
Washington U.    10.211    14-5
Baruch    10.174    21-2
               
21-30
UW-Whitewater    10.136    17-5
Carleton    10.136    18-4
Keene State    10.130    17-6
Carroll    10.095    18-3
Transylvania    10.080    21-4
Illinois Wesleyan    10.053    14-5
Calvin    10.000    12-1
UW-Stout    10.000    18-4
Widener    10.000    19-4
Alvernia    9.958    21-3 Already in, Pool A

31-40
Lakeland    9.905    17-4
North Central    9.895    14-5
Trinity (Conn.)    9.895    15-4
UW-La Crosse    9.880    18-7
SUNY-Farmingdale    9.870    18-5
Randolph-Macon    9.840    19-6
Ursinus    9.826    18-5
St. Thomas    9.792    19-5
Hope    9.765    15-2
Occidental    9.750    12-4

That's 18 Italicised Pool C contenders.  Here are the next five.
           
41-50
Baldwin-Wallace    9.750    20-4
Fisk    9.714    10-4 Pool B
Nebraska Wesleyan    9.714    6-1 Pool B
Puget Sound    9.706    15-2
New York University    9.696    17-6
Utica    9.667    19-5
Whitworth    9.652    18-5
MIT    9.652    16-7
Salem State    9.583    18-6
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sagecock on February 24, 2006, 08:42:24 pm
Quote
too bad for the rest of the conference and lucky for the Hen nation, who all understand that CK has easily been the greatest coach ever at PP.

I think Gregg Popovich might have something to say about that...

So the Hens finish out with a win at Redlands, never dominated the way they did the first game, but won convincingly enough.  Great to send off the seniors with a win. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 24, 2006, 09:15:22 pm
Some great shots from the Oxy-CMS game:

Parsons dunks in traffic on Oxy D: http://i.pbase.com/o4/39/17539/1/56261349.IMG_7454.jpg

Parsons second dunk to wrap up the win: http://misheli.image.pbase.com/o4/39/17539/1/56261333.IMG_0281.jpg
http://mishami.image.pbase.com/o4/39/17539/1/56261334.IMG_0282.jpg

The rest of the album includes photos from CMS-Pomona 2, CMS-Oxy 2, and CMS-La Verne 2: http://www.pbase.com/gary/cmsbasketball&page=all

All photos taken by Gary Stephenson.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 24, 2006, 10:56:47 pm
Interesting perspective, but I am going to disagree with you about the CMS offense. The Stags do run a lot of time off the clock, but it's by design as they are constantly looking for a pick or a cutter. I watched CMS play several times this season and what impressed me about them is how they are in no hurry to shoot and will wait and wait until they can post up Taylor or spring Winterbottom and Parsons off screens.

Claremont's offensive style ensures they are in every game. I would not be surprised if CMS caused grief in the playoffs for an unsuspecting foe.

OxyBob

I also agree with you that it is by design to run the offense looking for an easy shot, but it is also true as tigersports said that if the shot clock gets down to 10-12, the offense breaks down and Parsons backs up and tries to create off a ball screeen.  I do not see any problem in this style because Parsons is probably the best playmaker in the conference and it has been successful for the Stags all season.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 24, 2006, 11:09:22 pm
Bad news for Oxy fans, desparately clinging to the end of the last leaf on the branch sticking out from the cliff.  I think you can let go now and enjoy the fall.  At least seven teams have sewn up Pool C bids they didn't expect to have in the last day or so.  Like for instance, Baruch of the City University of New York Athletic Conference, which lost to to York (NY) tonight in their conference finals.  Baruch is a lead-pipe cinch for a Pool C, meaning that the lowly CUNYAC will get two teams in.  Ditto the SUNYAC (Cortland St. loses in the semis), CAC (York PA loses in the semis), Commonwealth Coast (Gordon loses in the semis), SCAC (Trinity TX loses in the first round), plus the CCIW and ODAC cemented their two-bid performances when IWU beat Augustana and Va. Wesleyan beat Randolph-Macon.  And the NCAC (Wooster vs. Wittenberg) and MIAA (Hope vs. Calvin) are guaranteed to eat two more Pool C's, while the NESCAC (semis are Amherst vs. Bates and Trinity CT vs. Tufts) will eat at least one more C, and as many as three more

Pretty much everything had to go right for Oxy to grab one of the last Pool C bids.  Instead, pretty much everything has gone wrong.  Looks like CMS is left to defend the SCIAC's honor all alone.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 26, 2006, 01:08:20 am
Chapman defeated Nebraska-Wesleyan tonight 76-67 which, if I am not mistaken, means they make the tourney as a Pool B bid.  Any ideas on how Chapman will fare in the tournament if they have indeed made it.  Chapman has defeated CMS twice already this season.  They also defeated Redlands, Cal Lu, Caltech, lost to Whittier by 3, and lost to Oxy by 5, all early in the season

I am looking forward to tommorow night, although I do not think any other SCIAC teams will make it, and Monday morning to see who the Stags matchup against.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 26, 2006, 01:20:32 am
Chapman defeated Nebraska-Wesleyan tonight 76-67 which, if I am not mistaken, means they make the tourney as a Pool B bid. 

No, that's not correct.  At least, if you mean that they clinched some sort of automatic bid by winning that tournament of independent teams, that's not correct.  Chapman is a Pool B team; there are no automatic bids in Pool B.  (Pool B is the independents, and members of conferences that don't have automatic bids, such as the GSAC and President's AC.)  There are 4 bids available to those eligible for Pool B consideration, and those bids will be the first 4 extended on the selection conference call (after the Pool A automatic bids, of course.)

I think it is unlikely that Chapman will receive one of those Pool B bids, but I'm hardly an expert on the "Bumblin' B's."  There is a board in the multi-region room devoted to discussion of the B-teams.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 26, 2006, 01:50:00 am
No, that's not correct.  At least, if you mean that they clinched some sort of automatic bid by winning that tournament of independent teams, that's not correct.  Chapman is a Pool B team; there are no automatic bids in Pool B.  (Pool B is the independents, and members of conferences that don't have automatic bids, such as the GSAC and President's AC.)  There are 4 bids available to those eligible for Pool B consideration, and those bids will be the first 4 extended on the selection conference call (after the Pool A automatic bids, of course.)

Ok, thanks.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 26, 2006, 11:18:28 pm
Wonderful news for the SCIAC on the front page ... TWO SCIAC teams are in the dance!!! Oxy pulls a Pool C bid while CMS obviously got the automatic. Let's all hope that both teams do some damage and make some noise in the playoffs!!!



Maybe we get the bid to make up for the awful football pairing this past season  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sagecock on February 26, 2006, 11:43:42 pm
Now I understand that Oxy had the overall record and the win over Amherst, but they also finished the season on a 4-game losing streak compared to the Hens 4-game win streak (of which Oxy was involved).  It's great that the SCIAC got some love with two teams, but I can't help but think that a rolling PP team should have been given some consideration over a tanking Oxy squad.  The fact that Whitworth got overlooked as well is also a shame considering their overall record is just as strong (20-7 to 19-5) and the only difference between them and Oxy/UPS is 1-point. 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 26, 2006, 11:50:05 pm
I am not completely sure, but I do not think those rankings include the Pomona loss, look for that loss and a Caltech win to drop Oxy a spot or two down the rankings.
Exactly. That's why I said that the situation was worse for Oxy than would be indicated by Wednesday's ranking. It doesn't reflect either the Pomona-Pitzer loss or the upcoming Pyrrhic victory over Caltech.

Hmmm... thought I said that... guess I didn't exactly do that. I guess I was expecting reader to make the leap they were currently fourth and going to stay fourth, their chances would have been excellent for a C bid. If they hadn't lost to PP, or that game was counted in this ranking, they would have simply remained fourth in the regional rankings, and first in line for a pool C.

Their loss, and the corresponding drop in the poll is what will make them the second or third west team in line to get a pool c.
That's what I meant when I said even if "the only upset in the conference tourney is Whitewater or La Crosse upsetting stout, Oxy could still be the second or third Pool C candidate from the region."

I didn't lay my argument out clearly at all. But this is a little more detail about what I think and why I think it.

The next two teams in the rankings (who were going to pass Oxy in the next rankings anyway) are the only ones who will probably upset anyone ranked above them. That means that even with conference upset concerns, Oxy will still be looking at the 2-3 slot in line for a Pool C for the West region. This is a little better than the situation in other regions, where conference upsets will affect teams on the Pool C bubble much more... does that make sense? Oxy's chances are certainly dire, but they are perhaps better than the most dire of dire?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 26, 2006, 11:51:52 pm
Oh my...I went to church tonight and my prayers were answered!  What great news for Oxy and the SCIAC.  I hope Coach Newhall and the boys kept their jerseys!

Calling Andy Holmes, calling Andy Holmes...

Perhaps not related to the football pairing, but I sure feel better this time around.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Tom Brady on February 27, 2006, 12:33:34 am
Congrats OXY and best of luck wherever you go.  Represent the SCIAC well.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 27, 2006, 12:37:46 am
Sagecock, two key results:  Oxy beat Amherst, which rolled PP and Oxy split with CMS, which swept PP.  Plus, PP did lose to Whittier down the stretch while Oxy's last two losses were on the road to CMS and PP down the stretch.  Thus, Oxy's two bad losses in conference are offset by PP's one and the aforementioned results.  Oxy beat two tourney teams, PP one.  Last, even setting officiating aside, PP got every break imaginable in the game against Oxy on Feb. 20 (Knowles' bounce on the front rim for 3, the bounce on Porter's FT, not to mention a 2+ standard deviations from the norm 20-24 from the line).  If you're gonna take a team from the SCIAC, the choice, by a preponderance, was Oxy.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 27, 2006, 12:38:56 am
Don't be surprised if Oxy plays at CMS on Thursday, with the winner going to Tacoma(?) on Sat.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 27, 2006, 01:07:48 am
Don't be surprised if Oxy plays at CMS on Thursday, with the winner going to Tacoma(?) on Sat.

That's my prediction, FWIW.  Then again, I don't think I would have projected a bid for Oxy if I had looked closely at the west.  I'm glad, though.  Congratulations to Oxy!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sagecock on February 27, 2006, 03:06:26 am
Sagecock, two key results:  Oxy beat Amherst, which rolled PP and Oxy split with CMS, which swept PP.  Plus, PP did lose to Whittier down the stretch while Oxy's last two losses were on the road to CMS and PP down the stretch.  Thus, Oxy's two bad losses in conference are offset by PP's one and the aforementioned results.  Oxy beat two tourney teams, PP one.

I was referring more to momentum then anything else.  I still beleive a surging PP team is just as qualified as a slumping Oxy squad.  You say that the two bad losses are comparable to PP's singular loss, however, that ignores the fact that they both came at the end of the season when they would have counted the most.  I realize the same argument can be made about the Hen's loss to Whittier, but instead of bouncing back from the loss to Laverne the Tigers dropped 3 straight after beating Cal-Lu.  I don't think you can equate the two at all.

Quote
Last, even setting officiating aside, PP got every break imaginable in the game against Oxy on Feb. 20 (Knowles' bounce on the front rim for 3, the bounce on Porter's FT, not to mention a 2+ standard deviations from the norm 20-24 from the line).  If you're gonna take a team from the SCIAC, the choice, by a preponderance, was Oxy.

That's why they play the game.  Same could be said for the first game when Oxy beat PP.  Oxy may have been the clear pick at the begining ofthe season but with their current level of play I don't think it should be so obvious.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 04:31:33 am
Sagecock, two key results:  Oxy beat Amherst, which rolled PP and Oxy split with CMS, which swept PP.  Plus, PP did lose to Whittier down the stretch while Oxy's last two losses were on the road to CMS and PP down the stretch.  Thus, Oxy's two bad losses in conference are offset by PP's one and the aforementioned results.  Oxy beat two tourney teams, PP one.

I was referring more to momentum then anything else.  I still beleive a surging PP team is just as qualified as a slumping Oxy squad.  You say that the two bad losses are comparable to PP's singular loss, however, that ignores the fact that they both came at the end of the season when they would have counted the most.  I realize the same argument can be made about the Hen's loss to Whittier, but instead of bouncing back from the loss to Laverne the Tigers dropped 3 straight after beating Cal-Lu.  I don't think you can equate the two at all.

No, they don't "count the most" at the end of the season. End-of-season performance is not a criterion looked at by the national committee. Neither is overall record, which you cited in your previous post as a reason why Pomona-Pitzer should've gotten in instead of Oxy.

That's why they play the game. Same could be said for the first game when Oxy beat PP. Oxy may have been the clear pick at the begining ofthe season but with their current level of play I don't think it should be so obvious.

Actually, it was pretty obvious that Oxy was a better Pool C candidate than Pomona-Pitzer, based upon the relevant factors, i.e., the five primary criteria.

Pomona-Pitzer's in-region winning percentage was slightly higher (13-4, .765, compared to Oxy's 12-4, .750). But that was more than offset by a large difference in the Quality of Wins Index in Oxy's favor (9.750, good for 42nd place in the country, as compared to 9.353 and 62nd place for the Sagehens). CMS was probably ranked in that final unseen regional ranking that the West Region committee put together on Sunday, which would've given Oxy yet another leg up on the Sagehens (Oxy went 1-1 against CMS, while the Stags swept their cross-campus rivals). If it ever got to secondary criteria, then the Amherst results would've come into play. But I doubt it ever got that far, because Pomona-Pitzer did not appear to be a serious candidate for a Pool C bid. Several other teams that were left on the outside looking in appear to have been better alternatives than the Sagehens: Bates, Washington (MO), Lakeland, Keene State, Trinity (CT), and Whitworth all appear to have been more qualified Pool C candidates than the Sagehens, and perhaps MIT and Mary Hardin-Baylor as well.

Anyway, congrats to Oxy ... the team that completely gobsmacked all the expert bracketologists. The Tigers appear to have been the 59th and final team picked for the big dance, but that won't matter a bit next weekend. Every scoreboard in the tournament will start out 0-0, and that's the beauty of March.

SCIAC fans, get ready to see your two teams square off on Thursday night in the opening round. I fully expect you to scream bloody murder should that likely eventuality come to pass, but look at the reality of the situation: You're geographical orphans, with no other tournament teams within a thousand miles, and the D3 tournament runs a tight budget as far as plane fares are concerned.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on February 27, 2006, 09:13:37 am
Mr. Sager shows yet again why he has so many starts under his name - good call on the pairings, though I am sure we all saw that one coming!  See the SCIAC "champion" in Tacoma.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 27, 2006, 10:17:36 am
I'm glad the SCIAC got 2 teams in, although too bad my PP boys dropped a few too many to get that bid.  But congrats to CMS and Oxy...although like Sager mentioned, the likely match up between the two should be pretty damn annoying for all of us.  I understand all the reasons though, so it makes sense...but our first year with 2 teams will really feel like 1 after that game  :-[
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on February 27, 2006, 10:35:15 am
I guess the Powers that be allowed two SCIAC teams into post-play like some of us were praying for......

Here's to hoping that the stags and tigers have a great run in post-play.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on February 27, 2006, 10:40:11 am
Sweet the stags come to the Rock for the first round of post-play. The powers that be are really awesome in basketball.....
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: samiam on February 27, 2006, 10:41:17 am
Not that I'm complaining, but how is it that CMS plays at Oxy?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on February 27, 2006, 10:43:10 am
Stag fans can't be happy, and rightfully so as they were the better team this year.  We'll be there though!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 27, 2006, 11:56:09 am
Does CMS' gym not meet NCAA regulations?  This makes little sense to me...But, like TigerSports, I am not complaining.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: El Tigre on February 27, 2006, 12:26:44 pm
Congrats to Oxy on making the playoffs!!! :o ... thank you god for having it in the ROCK!  I mean I would travel anywhere to watch the game, but I hate the gym at CMS it is in no way large enough for a playoff game of this caliber.  Oxy is the best site for the game. 

Boys wash those ref jerseys b/c we got one more game!

Eat'em up tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 27, 2006, 12:45:33 pm
 
Does CMS' gym not meet NCAA regulations? This makes little sense to me...But, like TigerSports, I am not complaining.


Naa... the main requirement is having over 1000 seats, which CMS has.

CMS, despite being the leagues Autobid, doesn't rank as well in the criteria the NCAA uses... so while it seems crazy that they're at Oxy, I was 100% sure that would happen last night. In fact, despite the fact that I think Oxy has to be better than several of the other teams in the tourney, I wouldn't be surprised if they were a last minute stickin, purely for the fact that it made a cheap first round game in the West region.

While I have no particular loyalities to CMS or Oxy, and simply hope that whichever team will represent the SCIAC best makes it out of here, it would be sorta fun for the Oxy team to shove their token bid in the NCAA's face by making a nice tourney run.

For the frustrated CMS fans, it helps at all, just ask the Wheaton women how they felt getting the raw deal last year in the NCAAs compared to Millikin despite grabbing the autoqualifer, or the NCC Cardinals how they feel about being the bottom team in their entire bracket despite clearly winning the auto bracket this year. The selection and bracketing system is strange, and a lot of the time, it's just plain wrong. But, I guess in some ways, it makes a little sense.... Millikin got the higher seed last year in Women's basketball despite not getting the autoqualifier, and they parlayed it into a national title. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens with this year's examples.

On the plus side, there will be a guaranteed SCIAC team in the second round!  :D  :-\  :'(
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 27, 2006, 01:57:10 pm
Great news for the Tigers! 

The Rock will be electric on Thursday.

Go Tigers beat those nasty Stags!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: mr_rayburn on February 27, 2006, 02:06:22 pm
Go Tigers beat those nasty Sagehens!

FYI Oswald...Pomona-Pitzer, aka the Sagehens, did not make the tourney.  Oxy is going up against the Stags from CMS.  Just a minor distinction.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 27, 2006, 04:04:10 pm
I was blinded by CMS's SCIAC title, but of course diehardfan is right (she usually is)--Oxy has the better bona fides in the eyes of the NCAA and "deserved" to host on that basis.  I wish I could be there, but alas! I'll be in Oregon on Thursday. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 27, 2006, 04:50:25 pm
What is the capacity of Oxy's gym?

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 27, 2006, 05:36:11 pm
I've got a week full of basketball.  I wish I could fly to LA, but the budget will not allow for travel at this time.  That being said, I'm doing alright, basketball-wise this week:

Wed night: Attend Dayton vs. St. Louis U

Thur night: Listen to CMS vs. Oxy

Friday night: Attend Calvin College vs. Carroll College
                    Manchester College vs. Wash U

Saturday: Attend Missouri Valley Conference Semis
                SCIAC winner vs Puget Sound

Sunday: Attend Missouri Valley Conference Finals

GO TIGERS!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 27, 2006, 05:55:23 pm
FYI Oswald

Oops, thanks
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 27, 2006, 06:39:03 pm
When is conference MVP announced?  As the season ended, it looked like Taylor had it locked up but if the Tigers can pull out a win at home this week, would Betty be the pick?


This will be a huge game for both programs. I would think that both programs want to advance to prove they can move out of the conference and play with some of the elite of D-III hoops. And bragging rights never hurt. Get it done Tigers!!!


Safe travels to the CMS loyal and all other elsewhere (OxyFan21- that's a great week of games). Here's hoping the winner can go to UPS and make some noise for the SCIAC.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 27, 2006, 07:42:32 pm
When is conference MVP announced?  As the season ended, it looked like Taylor had it locked up but if the Tigers can pull out a win at home this week, would Betty be the pick?

Haha, nice try.  No, I believe Miles Taylor is the SCIAC MVP and nothing that happens in the playoffs will change that.  Miles Taylor will prove why he is the SCIAC MVP this Thursday at Oxy as he has all year long.  I am looking forward to the huge game, see all you Oxy fans out there.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 27, 2006, 07:44:28 pm
 ???  I dislike CMS as much as anyone, but to send them on the road to Oxy is complete crap.  Anyway you slice it, the committee dropped the ball...CMS is clearly the better team over the course of the year, and especially right now.  Horrible move there, as they should have hosted or at the very worst played at Pomona or Whittier (probably the 2 best gyms in SCIAC...until CLU's opens).  I know they don't play em in neutral sites, so that's moot...but if I was a CMS player, fan, or coach, i'd be livid.

I hope they don't feel sorry for themselves and still come to play.  Oxy's gym is better than CMS', but it's still crap...eh well, I'd probably root for Oxy to take out my rivals anyway...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 27, 2006, 07:54:31 pm
When is conference MVP announced?  As the season ended, it looked like Taylor had it locked up but if the Tigers can pull out a win at home this week, would Betty be the pick?

Official results:
MVP - Taylor

1st Team
Parsons, Maceri (cms)
Greenlee (ULV)
Wexlor Beron (PP)
Mazarei (UR)
Betty (oxy)

2nd Team
Phillips (oxy)
Knowles, Lloyd (PP)
Mesaros (WC)
Lepiashinski (clu)
Brown (ulv)
Carlson  (cit)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 27, 2006, 08:05:49 pm
When is conference MVP announced? As the season ended, it looked like Taylor had it locked up but if the Tigers can pull out a win at home this week, would Betty be the pick?

No way.  MVP is based on conference games only...even if Betty had a huge game on Thursday it wouldn't make a difference.  Typically, the MVP is awarded to a player from the conference champion.  The only exception I can think of is two years ago, when Avedian from CalLu won it after Pomona won the conference.  He was clearly the best player in the conference, however...you can't make the same argument for Betty over Taylor.

Does anyone know if Oxy is selling tickets to Thursday's game, or is it free as usual, or what?  When they hosted a playoff game three years ago, we bought tickets in advance.  It was a full house then, and I'm sure it will be even more so on Thursday with CMS fans making the easy trip.  I want to be sure I get a seat for CMS-Oxy III - this is gonna be awesome!
 

  
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 27, 2006, 08:18:56 pm
The ncaa has a set charge for games, I believe, though I think the schools can add on to it, cause my playoff tickets haven't always been the same price...

Heck... I just realized, if I'm able to make it at all, I'm probably going to get to the gym at the last second... maybe it's not worth the risk of the 2hr drive each way just to get shut out of the game?  :'(
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 08:42:50 pm
Heck... I just realized, if I'm able to make it at all, I'm probably going to get to the gym at the last second... maybe it's not worth the risk of the 2hr drive each way just to get shut out of the game?  :'(

Aw, c'mon, April, what kind of an attitude is that? You're the Lincoln of D3 fans (the school, not the president  ;)). To paraphrase Roger Miller and a song that was popular long before your time, you're the queen of the road. You're the one that we count upon to always go the extra mile to see any and every D3 game possible. Besides, it's the tournament.

I hate to see you turn into just another blase, unzealous oldster like the rest of us.  ;)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 27, 2006, 08:50:42 pm
Lol... true... I wish I had no responsibilities like the good old days... basketball games every night of the week, in four states. :D Unfortunately, I am getting more conservative with the mileage on my car in my old age... okay, not really!  :D

Your issue isn't with me, it's with the Oxy or CMS fan who is going to steal my ticket.  :D  ;)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: K.C. on February 27, 2006, 11:02:38 pm
Thank you, sir.  Looks like I'll be making a trip in the rain to get tickets tomorrow.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 27, 2006, 11:18:39 pm
Committee sent a message loud and clear to the SCIAC with letting Oxy host: do something out of your conference to get our respect.  PC and Sagers have been telling us that for years on this thread, and I for one have weakly tried to dispute it with anecdotal evidence about the competitiveness of our teams.   Playing well against Biola, Azuza and within our conference just doesn't mean anything outside of the Southland.  And really, if you think about it, should it?  We just have to win those non-conference DIII games, the few and far between that they are.  When the snowbirds come out, we have to do what Oxy did to Amherst.  CMS had a great, great SCIAC.  But they haven't done ANYTHING outside of the conference except beating 2 strong Cali NAIA teams and Augsburg.  The rest of the nation doesn't care about that as much as the losses to Wash U, George Fox and Pacific.

Oxy beats Amherst, Whitworth and Chapman.  They get the national nod.  

Don't like it, too bad.  Beat a DIII team note outside of an hour away from your dorm room.  

Preview of SCIAC tourney is coming Thursday.  Should be exciting.  I'm sure CMS guys are mad that they were punked by the Committee.  And Oxy, well, it might be fun for to watch them ruin CMS's parade and then wait for the whining here on the thread about how they didn't deserve to have to travel on the road to the Rock.  Unfortunately for them, deserve has got nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: fosheezie on February 28, 2006, 12:46:23 am
WCW, good to be back, I just had my own little season to contend with.  But lets face it, CMS should be hosting this game.  I almost crapped my pants to hear that Oxy is hosting after losing 4 straight, let alone barely getting in.  The committee members must be from Chico or Thousand Oaks (GD), those dudes are smokin' some serious crack.  CMS will come out electric, and my prediction is this, and remember what THE Fosheezie says:

CMS:   54   OXY:  48

You heard it hear first.  Just sad to not see my Sagecocks involved in this next year....and oh yeah, if you are a guard as good as Knowles, you are gonna get the green light.  Who else is gonna score?  You don't take the ball out of your best players hands...you just ride his waves!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: fosheezie on February 28, 2006, 12:48:30 am
How the hell do I have a negative 1 Karma, that's some BS.  Are Patricia and Greggy still mad I punked them years ago.  Oh well!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2006, 01:34:59 am
That can't be THE Fosheezie. It may be A Fosheezie, but I'm going to need to see a driver's license and vehicle registration to prove that it's THE Fosheezie.

I don't smite. But I don't get punked, either.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2006, 01:42:07 am
Stags4Life:

>>What is the capacity of Oxy's gym?<<

Official capacity of Rush Gymnasium is 1,800.

OxyBob

It still isnt big enough for {DELETED}

This post does nothing to add to the conversation and only serves to bash a fellow poster. That's why I removed it the first time. It is not in accordance with the TOS.

Please don't re-repost it.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 28, 2006, 01:54:41 am
Fosheezie...that last comment may have made you my favorite poster on the board.  Unfortunately, I do have a feeling we aren't gonna be on good terms for long. 

Just wondering who's comin up from the SCIAC to Tacoma to get drilled.

Has Oxy really lost 4 in a row and they are hosting???Is that true?  For the sake of your conference...you better hope CMS wins.

Did Oxy really only beat Cal Tech by 14?  Shoot, I'm hopin' for CMS...just so it stays closer than 30.    

Logger fans are already booking their nonrefunadable flights to Wisconsin.

Hippies and basketball...thats what UPS does.
  
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 28, 2006, 03:17:09 am
Just wondering who's comin up from the SCIAC to Tacoma to get drilled.

Has Oxy really lost 4 in a row and they are hosting???Is that true?  For the sake of your conference...you better hope CMS wins.

Did Oxy really only beat Cal Tech by 14?  Shoot, I'm hopin' for CMS...just so it stays closer than 30.    
The Tigers are concentrating on the Stags right now, but I'm itching for a good reason to road trip up to Washington blackhawk.

Oxy dropped three at the end of their season. Redlands, CMS, and Pomona.

The Tigers beat Cal Tech 81-46.  Which if my math is correct is... carry the one.. yeah more than 14 points.

Can't wait 'til Thursday rolls around!

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on February 28, 2006, 04:21:28 am


The Tigers beat Cal Tech 81-46. Which if my math is correct is... carry the one.. yeah more than 14 points.

Our beloved Tiger beat the Techers by an awfully low 14 points on 2/1. I guess it was a foreshadowing of a rough month for the Tigers: Beat CIT by less than 30 (Although they were SO much better this year), drop 2 games at home and 2 more on the road. Luckily for us, February leaves us with a huge gift.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 28, 2006, 07:42:44 am
Oxy did lose 3 of its last 4, but all of those games were close.  129-123 vs. Redlands, 62-55 @ CMS, and 67-63 @ Pomona in OT.  If you take a look at their entire season, they did not steamroll through the schedule as they did in '02-'03.  The first time through the schedule, we beat CMS and Pomona by a combined 5 points. 

As we saw in '03, anything can happen in the post-season.   I bet nobody in here predicted the Elite 8 run that year for the Tigers even though they were undefeated in SCIAC. 

I think that the Tigers will take this reprieve from the NCAA and run with it.  Yes, I am suprised that the game is in Eagle Rock, but I was also suprised when our football team had to travel to Linfield. <-----sometimes, the committee just makes strange, but very calculated financial decisions.  Which, I guess, makes it not so strange.  We are on an island, and I think in this case, it helped.  I'd hate for the Tigers or CMS to have to travel far in Round 1.  Remember, in our little fishbowl, a trip a few hrs down the highway is considered far.

BTW, welcome back Fosheezie. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 28, 2006, 07:44:10 am
Eye of the Tiger,
I got a peek of your guys' ref shirts...I like them very much!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on February 28, 2006, 09:45:00 am
Blackhawk-whalesaving-blowupthedamstosavethesalmon-parkawearing-UPSfan,

Amazing that you are even on this thread.  Kind of like a guy from UConn going on the thread and talking crap to the Davidson fans before they play them in the 1st round. 

Book your flight.  No SCIAC team has a chance at UPS.  Oxy's backcourt is too young and CMS can't beat Pacific (which granted, will be legit in a few years, but isn't yet).  Look at it like a nice, easy game for your varsity to tune you up for beasts you will face in the next round.  The SCIAC teams won't roll over but they won't be a very difficult W for you. 


Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on February 28, 2006, 10:15:29 am
they did not steamroll through the schedule as they did in '02-'03. 

again, I have to point out that if I remember right, Oxy won 2 games over PP that year by a combined 3 points or something miniscule like that.  Someone check the record books if they remember differently...I could be wrong...but they definitely didn't "steamroll," which I've seen mentioned here a few times.


and someone explain to me how having Oxy host instead of CMS is a money issue....I would assume that, despite being completely idiotic, the committee had Oxy host cause they deemed them the higher seed
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on February 28, 2006, 10:37:52 am
Oxy fans, quick question, does anyone know if any tickets might be sold the day of the game? Or are tickets sold just on the days that some of you guys noted?

Anywho's, sure will be fun once thursday rolls around. And yes, Oxy's gym should be well enough to accommodate at least up to 1,800 screaming fans. Last time a first round game was played there the school decided to pull down the seats on both sides of the court and was just an awesome view of bright organne and black.....

Here's to waiting for thursday....Go tigers
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on February 28, 2006, 11:10:55 am
Blackhawk-whalesaving-blowupthedamstosavethesalmon-parkawearing-UPSfan,

Amazing that you are even on this thread.  Kind of like a guy from UConn going on the thread and talking crap to the Davidson fans before they play them in the 1st round. 

Book your flight.  No SCIAC team has a chance at UPS.  Oxy's backcourt is too young and CMS can't beat Pacific (which granted, will be legit in a few years, but isn't yet).  Look at it like a nice, easy game for your varsity to tune you up for beasts you will face in the next round.  The SCIAC teams won't roll over but they won't be a very difficult W for you. 


As anyone who spends some time on the NWC board knows, Blackhawk never misses a chance to assert the greatness of the Loggers....and rightly so given the run of the past three years.  Here's to hoping WCW is correct - and I have to think she/he is.

- Lattesipping-treehugging-Volvodriving-hemploving-GreenPeacehangingoffthebridgesupporting UPS Logger Fan
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on February 28, 2006, 12:17:30 pm
Oxy fans, quick question, does anyone know if any tickets might be sold the day of the game? Or are tickets sold just on the days that some of you guys noted?

The tickets go on sale today in the Athletic office.  I would assume that there will be tickets on sale the night of the game, but that is depending on availability of course. 

Since you're in the area I'd say snatch your ticket up now, I am.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 28, 2006, 12:29:54 pm
So uh... this is when I start some shameless begging.  8)

Free diehardfan cookies, in a variety of your choice, plus a reimbursementof the cost of the ticket, to the first person who buys me a ticket to thursday's game so I don't have to be stressed out for the two hour drive Thursday evening. Please someone?  ??? I'm sure one of my non-SCIAC friends will be willing to back me up and state that my cookies are famous across the d3hoops.com land.  :-*

Surely some college aged Oxy guy will be willing to take me up on this offer? :D ;)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Tom Brady on February 28, 2006, 12:30:32 pm
Fosheezie-  Was the little crack about Thousand Oaks and the initials (GD)<------- supposed to be about Cal Lu's assistant coach?  Just wondering if you had it out for the guy for one reason or another.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on February 28, 2006, 02:29:49 pm
Why does everyone seem to think neither of the SCIAC teams have a chance against UPS.  Forget the history for one sec, I know it is hard to, but I think the winner of the CMS-Oxy game will give UPS a fight and I do think UPS will lose.  Oxy has shown the capability to defeat a top 5 team in the nation and CMS, with the SCIAC's top defense, can play with anyone in Division 3 and beat them.

I do think CMS will defeat Oxy so I will speak as though CMS will play UPS.  CMS has been constantly improving all season.  I do not think you can look at that loss at Pacific and say they will lose.  CMS did not know its identity back then.  They know now.  They have the SCIAC MVP and 2 more first teamers and it will be tought for a team to shut all three of them down at once.  And with the Stag Defense, every game will come down to the wire and in my opinion, the Stag Defense will pull it out for CMS in the end against UPS just as it has for CMS all year long. 

Someone please provide some confidence in the SCIAC and do not admit defeat to the "graet" Loggers so soon, because you will be mad you didn't support your SCIAC come Saturday night.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on February 28, 2006, 05:57:14 pm
Click on the link for Hoopsville on the front page.  Listen to the whole thing from last night...But, if you want to listen to Coach Newhall, click on Part 2 of the archive.  Very interesting discussion last night.

 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on March 01, 2006, 12:35:56 am
It's too bad that the two SCIAC teams are playing in the 1st round, but good to have 2 SCIAC teams in a sport other than baseball.  Will be interesting to see how far the 1st round winner goes.  Of course, no one gave P-P a chance when they went in and shocked Trinity on the road a few years ago, either...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 01, 2006, 07:26:13 am
It's too bad that the two SCIAC teams are playing in the 1st round, but good to have 2 SCIAC teams in a sport other than baseball.  Will be interesting to see how far the 1st round winner goes.  Of course, no one gave P-P a chance when they went in and shocked Trinity on the road a few years ago, either...

Nobody gave Oxy a chance in '03 either, especially when they traveld to Storm Lake.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 01, 2006, 09:41:00 am
Hey Eye of Da Tiger,

They blocked us from using Myspace at work, so I'm going to respond to you here.  You bet I'll be listening, along with another Oxy alum from the Class of 2000.  If you guys start screaming something like "Leo's tacotruck, Leo's tacotruck", you'll hear me laughing all the way from St. Louis.  Craig Dunkin, voice of the Tigers will probably have a chuckle too.  I'm sure that chant has never been heard at a game before.  I'll be listening! 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 01, 2006, 09:56:43 am
"I was at a second-round game (from a bye-home-away bracket) at Occidental a couple of years ago, and it was special." -David Collinge, from the NCAA Tournament Board. 

Hope you don't mind DC, but I was reading the other boards and wanted to post your comment on this board.  I was at that game in March 2003, shortly before I moved from L.A. to St. Louis.  It was my last memory of Oxy and a great one at that.  The "broken ankles" chant ranks up there in my memory.

Let's make it another special night Tiger fans!
Title: NWC
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on March 01, 2006, 10:36:02 am
Gentlemen, as a Willamette fan, I am obviously not on Blackhawks level as a UPS advocate...however, I am interested in hearing if any teams in your league play the type of style UPS does, and how you think either of your two schools matchup against the full court pressure UPS dishes out...

Oxy's game against Whitworth was a one-point decision as well wasn't it? And Lance Pecht, the NWC's POY from Whitworth, apparently played through that game with an injury...now, I am not saying that win by the Tigers wasn't impressive, but Whitworth and UPS are two different animals (style of play, personnel, etc) and in TACOMA, UPS is very, very good (seems their pressure amps up about 5 levels, and their shooting is much better, as is for most teams at home)...

As for CMS, the only real comparisons any of us NWCers have is their losses the past two years to GFox, Pacific and at home to Willamette...none of those teams made the post season (Fox finishing 4th, Pacific 7th in the NWC this year, and Willamette 5th a year ago)...has their personnel from the Willamette loss changed that much? I have no idea, but I do know that WU team lost at UPS by 25, and the Fox/Pacific duos that beat them this year lost by a combined 27...

Not knocking your teams, just looking at the only real comparisons we have between the teams...looking on this site, it looks like the two leagues battled fairly closely this year, NWC coming out on top 6 wins to 4...
Title: hmmmn...
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on March 01, 2006, 03:01:08 pm
OB,

"I believe that is known as home court advantage"

and I belive I said "which is true for most teams at home", especially ones that have lost 1 time in their gym in the past 3 years.

"Oxy and CMS are two different animals. Not knocking your team of course."

By this, do you mean they are as completely opposite in that one is a relentless, full court attack, three point shooting, individual one-on-on isolation team vs. another that is deliberate in running a number of half court sets for a 7-8 man rotation...because if so, Oxy/CMS would be very similar to the differences between Whitworth/UPS...if not, maybe you were just taking a swipe at my team for some unknown reason...BTW, not once did I claim WU's destruction of two of your worst teams was worth talking about...

If you read through my post, you'd realize I was looking for a comparison between Redlands style and UPS, and some talk about how each of your representatives in the tournament did against each...or some thoughts about how whether one or the other was best suited for a trip to Tacoma for the "old college try."  (I would guess you would say CMS, as Oxy gave up some ungodly numbers to Redlands and Mazarei(sp?))

Maybe my friend BHawks tainted the SCIAC folks approach to dealing with us NWCers...we're not all as "enthusiastic" as he is...some of us would enjoy a breakdown of two teams we haven't seen...


Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on March 01, 2006, 03:53:50 pm
Enough of this "they" beat "them" and they beat them.  Those debates have been  going on for years and they never predict that much.  Team playing style, health, home court, momentum, and team play mean alot more than "we" beat "them" and "they" lost to "them." So lets just wait till Saturday and then you can make your argument that UPS is dominant over the SCIAC or that the SCIAC is alot better than everyone thinks.

Answering someone's question, CMS is a very different team from last year's Willamette loss squad, returning 2 starters from that team and also their rotation and bench is completely different than it was during the Pacific and George Fox losses.  Also, those losses occurred very earlier in the season before this CMS team had found its offensive identity and its defensive cohesiveness and intensity.  They are a far better team than they were then, which is probably the case for most teams, but most especially for CMS if you loook at their early season performance and then their wins over two top NAIA teams and then into SCIAC play. 

Let's hope for a great game on Saturday.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sagecat32 on March 01, 2006, 04:09:48 pm
For the record:

Cal Tech lost in overtime to Whittier.
Whittier beat Pomona-Pitzer.
Pomona-Pitzer beat Whitworth.
Whitworth beat UPS.
UPS beat UC Riverside.
UC Riverside beat Univeristy of Pacific.
UOP beat Texas A&M.
Texas A&M beat Nebraska.
Nebraska beat Marquette.
Marquette beat Georgetown.
Georgetown beat #1 Duke.

And thats why they play the games...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 01, 2006, 04:51:09 pm
For the record:

Cal Tech lost in overtime to Whittier.
Whittier beat Pomona-Pitzer.
Pomona-Pitzer beat Whitworth.
Whitworth beat UPS.
UPS beat UC Riverside.
UC Riverside beat Univeristy of Pacific.
UOP beat Texas A&M.
Texas A&M beat Nebraska.
Nebraska beat Marquette.
Marquette beat Georgetown.
Georgetown beat #1 Duke.

And thats why they play the games...

that might be the best damn post I've seen today!  Great work SageCat32, point is well taken.  Aside from talk of who played who and who won over what team that looks nothing like it did early in the season, can some tell me if there is to be a web cast of the game Thursday night?  Good luck to both squads.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 01, 2006, 05:03:40 pm
Dang Sagecat..you beat me to the punch!!  Great Post!!
Just needed to add that "My Dad can beat up your Dad!"

Good luck to SCIAC at UPS!!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 01, 2006, 05:28:01 pm
Loggerville,

I don't think (almost certain) that there will  be a video webcast of the game.

You can, however, listen to www.oxybroadcast.com or it could be linked through this site as well.

 
Title: Re: hmmmn...
Post by: TeeDub on March 01, 2006, 05:48:41 pm

If you read through my post, you'd realize I was looking for a comparison between Redlands style and UPS, and some talk about how each of your representatives in the tournament did against each...or some thoughts about how whether one or the other was best suited for a trip to Tacoma for the "old college try."  (I would guess you would say CMS, as Oxy gave up some ungodly numbers to Redlands and Mazarei(sp?))


If you are comparing your UPS to Redlands, then the SCIAC rep is in better shape than I thought....
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on March 01, 2006, 06:39:29 pm
For the record:

Cal Tech lost in overtime to Whittier.
Whittier beat Pomona-Pitzer.
Pomona-Pitzer beat Whitworth.
Whitworth beat UPS.
UPS beat UC Riverside.
UC Riverside beat Univeristy of Pacific.
UOP beat Texas A&M.
Texas A&M beat Nebraska.
Nebraska beat Marquette.
Marquette beat Georgetown.
Georgetown beat #1 Duke.

And thats why they play the games...

I love the post! Gave me a good laugh.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on March 01, 2006, 07:54:08 pm
For the record:

Cal Tech lost in overtime to Whittier.
Whittier beat Pomona-Pitzer.
Pomona-Pitzer beat Whitworth.
Whitworth beat UPS.
UPS beat UC Riverside.
UC Riverside beat Univeristy of Pacific.
UOP beat Texas A&M.
Texas A&M beat Nebraska.
Nebraska beat Marquette.
Marquette beat Georgetown.
Georgetown beat #1 Duke.

And thats why they play the games...

Great Stuff Sagecat32!  That is actually the point I tried to get across with my explanation, but those results smash the point across. Thanks.

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on March 01, 2006, 08:43:02 pm
I wish I could find my link from my letter to the editor at the World Champion (you Healy fans will know of what I speak) in '03 that had Oxy number 1 based on their win over Fullteron.  Great post. 

Yes, we will broadcast the game at www.oxybroadcast.com. 
Title: Re: hmmmn...
Post by: Loggerville on March 01, 2006, 09:04:07 pm
If you are comparing your UPS to Redlands, then the SCIAC rep is in better shape than I thought....

pretty sure bcf3 wasn't comparing Redlands to UPS....very different styles from what I understand of what Redlands is running.  The Loggers will defend hard, play 94 feet, and run the shot clock when the situation calls for it.

Thanks for the updates on the web radio cast to those that provided them.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: fosheezie on March 02, 2006, 12:58:25 am
Okay, let me clear up a couple of issues....Yes, it is I The Fosheezie...alright I stole it from those NFL guys from THE Ohio St. University.  But it sounds like some authority since I still get a negative 1 karma from Patricia and G-Spot .

As for GD, Ricky Vaughn, we go way back, I am very, very close to the Cal Lu coaching staff. Not as close as those imbreeders up in Tacoma,  but its all for fun, cuz I know they check out what you SKIZAC Psychos write.  "Throw em da heater Ricky"

Much love for my boyz WCW and blackhawks, but I must change my prediction.  I am changing sides and actually rooting for the Tigers.  I just think they have a better shot and knockin' off those cocky Wood Spankers up in Tacoma.  So let's feed em a big fat s***burger, whether CMS or Oxy and build some cred for the SSSSSCIZAK!   :P
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on March 02, 2006, 03:20:44 am
RRRIIIIIGGGHHHHTTTTT!

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 02, 2006, 07:55:36 am
Pat,
I have a question...if things fall right (for my perspective, anyways) for the Tigers and they manage to get out of the 1st weekend, and a bunch of other things go right, could there possibly be a regional @ Illinois Weslyan or perhaps UW-Whitewater?  I mean, I would think those two schools would meet whatever criteria the NCAA has for Regionals?

I had a dream last night that I was gassing up my car to head to one of those two places...It could be just a dream, but I'm just wondering.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Tom Brady on March 02, 2006, 11:51:13 am
Right on Fosheezie.  I was just wondering.  Interesting post as well as the use of "Wood-Spankers"   I like that one.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2006, 12:14:08 pm
Pat,
I have a question...if things fall right (for my perspective, anyways) for the Tigers and they manage to get out of the 1st weekend, and a bunch of other things go right, could there possibly be a regional @ Illinois Weslyan or perhaps UW-Whitewater?  I mean, I would think those two schools would meet whatever criteria the NCAA has for Regionals?

I had a dream last night that I was gassing up my car to head to one of those two places...It could be just a dream, but I'm just wondering.

I think it seems reasonable that the winner of the UWW regional would host the sectional, though if that's Carroll, I know nothing about their gym. Augustana is another good candidate. Puget Sound won't host b/c of geography and Lawrence seems too small to host.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on March 02, 2006, 01:13:29 pm
Game time is just around the corner at the Rock......

For those that will be attending the game, be ready for a huge screaming sea of bright oragne with some black. It should be awesome again to see the school's gym at Oxy at its highest capacity before the firemarshall rolls.

Both schools will be playing their strongest defensive game ever played so i expect it to be a low scoring game. However, in my opinion, Oxy's offense should be ready to get going again and produce far better results than what they were doing for the past five days. (Edge: Oxy wins big with their defense and moves up north)
Hope to see a lot of staggs coming out

Tigersports-------Eventhough, i'll be at the game, i wish the gym at Oxy had some system that would allow your play-by-play commentaries like you do for football...Go out and a fun and  great job in representing our school. I am sure the stagg fans on-line will like the broadcast. 

Go tigers
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on March 02, 2006, 01:58:21 pm
Rick, those of us in the northwest are interested in the OXY/CMS game, but as a wise man once told you . . . "its not THAT important".  The Loggers will roll regardless.  If you make it up to Tacoma, I hope you're ready . . .  this isnt the California Penal League!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 02, 2006, 03:54:44 pm
PC,
I'm looking way ahead, but I'm glad to see that Augustana, Whitewater and IWU are all within driving distance of St. Louis.

Even if Oxy is not involved, I may be down for a road trip just to watch more good basketball.

Thanks for the response.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 02, 2006, 03:57:25 pm
Rick, those of us in the northwest are interested in the OXY/CMS game, but as a wise man once told you . . . "its not THAT important".  The Loggers will roll regardless.  If you make it up to Tacoma, I hope you're ready . . .  this isnt the California Penal League!

I don't think Oxy or CMS can ever be compard to the Penal League, though I do catch your drift.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on March 02, 2006, 05:01:38 pm
^^somebody needs to re-watch the classic that is "major league"
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2006, 05:06:17 pm
I think it seems reasonable that the winner of the UWW regional would host the sectional, though if that's Carroll, I know nothing about their gym.

I remember Van Male Arena as being a real dump, but it's got plenty of space for additional bleachers (or at least it did under the configuration by which I remember it; I haven't been there since Carroll left the CCIW for the MWC fifteen years ago). I remember it holding maybe a thousand people. I noticed, though, that in the Lawrence @ Carroll box score from two weeks ago the attendance was listed at 1,800. I don't know if they put in extra bleachers for that game, or if the person manning the computer at the scorer's table was so drunk that he/she was seeing double, or what.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2006, 05:36:38 pm
Even if Oxy is not involved, I may be down for a road trip just to watch more good basketball.

Thanks for the response.

No problem. And you should absolutely do this. More fans should take the initiative to attend NCAA Tournament games even if their team isn't involved.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2006, 05:55:33 pm
Oh my gosh, I was just printing out stats to take with me to the Oxy game, since they didn't have a program the last game I attended. And there wasn't anything statwise that was a valid link! Nothing but season stats! Oh my gosh! How do you guys survive! How do you fully analyze a game result without stats? ??? ??? :o Argh!

CMS had the two games played previously by the two teams on THEIR website, fortunately, so I will come to tonights game fully armed. But seriously. You can't even keep stats for your own home games? Geeze... I'm starting to sympathize with how hard it is for the fans out here... not to mention a programs ability to recruit. God bless you all in the midst of your acute suffering, and thank God for Brett Marhanka!  :)

That's it, next year, I'm going to do some volunteer SIDing for someone.  ;)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 02, 2006, 10:40:48 pm
Oh my gosh, I was just printing out stats to take with me to the Oxy game, since they didn't have a program the last game I attended. And there wasn't anything statwise that was a valid link! Nothing but season stats! Oh my gosh! How do you guys survive! How do you fully analyze a game result without stats? ??? ??? :o Argh!

CMS had the two games played previously by the two teams on THEIR website, fortunately, so I will come to tonights game fully armed. But seriously. You can't even keep stats for your own home games? Geeze... I'm starting to sympathize with how hard it is for the fans out here... not to mention a programs ability to recruit. God bless you all in the midst of your acute suffering, and thank God for Brett Markanka!  :)

That's it, next year, I'm going to do some volunteer SIDing for someone.  ;)

DHF:  I hear ya....was looking to see what a low score at half was for these teams....have to assume this 22-12 is the worst for both teams this year!

Stags, really, 12 points?  wow.  and the radio guys are hammering your fans....tough first 20.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2006, 10:57:12 pm
lol... logger... they heard you :D

the noise in here is incredible :O
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2006, 11:02:42 pm
That phone of yours is something else, April.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 02, 2006, 11:13:08 pm
lol... logger... they heard you :D

DHF...are you at the game I take it?  Any comment on the guards of either of these squads?  curious how you think they would handle full-court pressure...sounds like it should be a good ending.  enjoy.  ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 02, 2006, 11:22:37 pm
Oh man, buckle up.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2006, 11:27:31 pm
I don't know... it's an extremely physical game... and neither team seems to be having THAT much trouble.. CMS's John Parson is pretty good... fast. He keeps making this guy on Oxy look like an idiot by blowing by him.

Really though, I think both guys have stronger inside games. In other words, they'll take those layups you give them. :D It's a shame one of these teams has to lose. they are dead even.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 02, 2006, 11:33:31 pm
In other words, they'll take those layups you give them. :D

easy, we aren't the Bulldogs ya know...thanks for the update...should be a good one in T-town Sat. night.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 02, 2006, 11:36:00 pm
Call Southwest Airlines, we're going to Tacoma!

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on March 02, 2006, 11:49:06 pm
Fire up SCIAC fans!  Round 2 as the underdogs in the NW.  Tiger faithful are probably rallying pre-game at the Ram in Tacoma (8 minutes from the game) on 3001 N Ruston Way, Tacoma, WA 98402-5306.   I'll confirm that tomorrow and post it so those who are travelling from down south log on and confirm.

Logger fans.  We've got no chance.  Maybe the Stags but Oxy shouldn't even have been in the Tourney.   Good guys.  Be kind to them.  Hope they can give you a better game than a bottom-tier team in your conference.  May want to think about limiting the minutes of your starters and avoiding injuries. 

 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 02, 2006, 11:55:38 pm
If the makeup of students at Oxy today is similar to when I was there in '96-'00, there should be a ton of students from the Seattle/Tacoma area.

Make it a weekend trip home, take your laundry with you, check those Ding fares, get a good home-cooked meal and bring back a Tiger win! 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: old_hooper on March 03, 2006, 12:15:04 am
I'm not an Oxy fan but look for an upset in Tacoma.  Why, Phillips and Bety will be the factor.  Newhell is a good enough coach to figure out the pressure and will have a better game plan then Bridgeland.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 03, 2006, 12:51:22 am
:D Terrible WCW... play nice :P

Oxy played a good game. I'm not sure they are the better team, and I'm unsure of how they would compare them to Puget Sound... whom I saw earlier this year. Hmmmmm...

Loggerville... 50 on Oxy... I like that kid. You wouldn't know it from the season stats... if you were actually able to find them, but he landed some key shots tonight. Anyone can guard better than #11 anyway, bless his heart... that kid  needs to run some suicides. :-/

20, on CMS was the best guy out on the floor for sure... grabs box score and looks at it while driving...Miles Taylor... did a great job of keeping his team in it.

Pat, does this officially make two things of mine that you are jealous of? Tell you what... I'll trade my car and my phone for a d3hoops.com press pass and your cute middle child  that I met at Catholic  last year?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2006, 12:56:41 am
Pat, does this officially make two things of mine that you are jealous of? Tell you what... I'll trade my car and my phone for a d3hoops.com press pass and your cute middle child  that I met at Catholic  last year?

Whoa ... uhh, no, love that boy to death. And the girls, too. :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on March 03, 2006, 01:03:50 am
i wonder if i should make the trip down to UPS from Seattle this weekend...what time is the game?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 03, 2006, 01:12:05 am
:D Okay Pat, just checking. :D :D :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2006, 01:25:47 am
i wonder if i should make the trip down to UPS from Seattle this weekend...what time is the game?

All second-round games are at 7 local time.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Stags4Life on March 03, 2006, 04:51:41 am
So Oxy defeated CMS tonight 48-41 and although Oxy has defeated CMS twice now of three matchups, I think most honest and knowledgeable fans would agree that CMS was actually the better team.  I think tonight that Oxy got a lot of breaks down the stretch that enabled them to get the win.  The things that come to mind are the mysterious offensive foul called on Taylor while driving past Zebb, the two offensive rebounds that tipped around players' hands before landing in an Oxy players hand under the basket for a layup, the two in and out threes in the last minute, and the no call when Taylor got clearlyshoved in the back trying to grab a rebound of one of those threes.  CMS played a horrible first half offensively, missing many layups.  They picked it up in the second half and Miles Taylor began dominating as he has all year.  Mani Maceira missed a few midrange jumpers that he usually sinks with ease and John Parsons and Dan Winterbottom were a combined 1 for 11 from 3pt.  From Oxy's standpoint, they did not do that much better offensively but it was enough to win.  Defensively, CMS limited Oxy's big guns as they had in the previous two meetings.  The difference might have been Oxy's defense if not CMS' missed layups.  Oxy's D pressured well and the Stags were not able to handle the physical play in the first half.  In the second half, the true CMS squad showed up and they pretty much dominated most of the second half.  The first half lapse was too much to overcome and it did not help playing in the Oxy gym which was a clear, and probably one of the bigger "breaks" that Oxy got.  I do not think Oxy would have had a chance at Ducey where the Stags finished undefeated this year.

Anyways, it was a great season for the Stags and they deserve to be called the 2006 SCIAC Champions, finishing with a record of 13-1, a mark only reached twice before in SCIAC history.  I will be gone from the board for a while now and I may or may not be back for next year.  It has been great chatting with the board even though it's mostly Oxy fans.  And one more thing, have any of you Oxy fans noticed how much of a jacka$$ and disespectful Connor Whitman is, or is it just me?

Have a good year and Go Stags!

--Stags4Life
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 03, 2006, 08:57:56 am
Newhell is a good enough coach to figure out the pressure and will have a better game plan then Bridgeland.

Old Hooper:  and you are basing this coaching advantage on what now?  I'm sure Newheel is a fine coach, just not sure why you are so confident he will out coach Bridgeland?  For your sake (the the Tigers) you better hope he has a hell of a lot better game plan...playing Thursday, traveling, and facing a Logger team that is 45-3 at home the last four years, with the last two L's being an NAIA top ten this year and Stevens Point in '04, is a lot for your boys to try and overcome.  Maybe the
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 03, 2006, 10:05:00 am
From what I understand, the Tigers planned ahead as though they were going to be playing on Saturday in terms of making tentative travel arrangements, etc.  Having traveled to Utah State and playing at a tough Azusa Pacific this year, I don't think they will be too intimidated by the environment.  They have also played at UNLV in the last year as well.  But, we'll see tomorrow.

Also, I think traveling to Tacoma may be a little less stressful than say...Storm Lake, IA.  And we all remember what happened then.

I don't know much about UPS' coach, but I know that Newhall has top of the line assistants.  For UPS fans, you'll see what I mean come Saturday.

Hoping for a good game Saturday night.  Nobody gave this team a shot of even making the tournament, and now we are into Round 2.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: TeeDub on March 03, 2006, 10:48:26 am
So Oxy defeated CMS tonight 48-41 and although Oxy has defeated CMS twice now of three matchups, I think most honest and knowledgeable fans would agree that CMS was actually the better team.  I think tonight that Oxy got a lot of breaks down the stretch that enabled them to get the win.  The things that come to mind are the mysterious offensive foul called on Taylor while driving past Zebb, the two offensive rebounds that tipped around players' hands before landing in an Oxy players hand under the basket for a layup, the two in and out threes in the last minute, and the no call when Taylor got clearlyshoved in the back trying to grab a rebound of one of those threes.  CMS played a horrible first half offensively, missing many layups.  They picked it up in the second half and Miles Taylor began dominating as he has all year.  Mani Maceira missed a few midrange jumpers that he usually sinks with ease and John Parsons and Dan Winterbottom were a combined 1 for 11 from 3pt.  From Oxy's standpoint, they did not do that much better offensively but it was enough to win.  Defensively, CMS limited Oxy's big guns as they had in the previous two meetings.  The difference might have been Oxy's defense if not CMS' missed layups.  Oxy's D pressured well and the Stags were not able to handle the physical play in the first half.  In the second half, the true CMS squad showed up and they pretty much dominated most of the second half.  The first half lapse was too much to overcome and it did not help playing in the Oxy gym which was a clear, and probably one of the bigger "breaks" that Oxy got.  I do not think Oxy would have had a chance at Ducey where the Stags finished undefeated this year.

--Stags4Life

Oh to see the world through CMS-colored glasses....

I don't think CMS is the better 'team', rather they have a few better 'players'.  Oxy had to step up and play without their go-to-guy for almost the entire first half after Betty got popped for 3 fouls, two of which were (given how you measured calls above) questionable.  I found it amazing that Taylor, Parsons and Maceira couldn't take advantage of a Betty-less Oxy team in that first half...

In the second half, no doubt who the cream of this crop was, MILES TAYLOR.  He dominated the floor and singlehandedly got the game even at 37 -37 with about 4 to go.  And then, for some inexplicable reason, he doesn't touch the rock the next 4 trips down the floor.  Parsons was all but shut out of the second half and I think his desire to contribute may have gotten in the way, he took an ill-advised three during that 4 possession run and Maceira took two very 'interesting' shots, all during a time when Oxy had no answer for Taylor.  Oxy goes up 43-37 during that time of Taylor-less CMS offense and then late game panic set in and the game was over.

Taylor, however, definitely showed why he was the POY in the SCIAC, too bad the others didn't recognize what they had in him last night.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on March 03, 2006, 10:50:36 am
So Oxy defeated CMS tonight 48-41 and although Oxy has defeated CMS twice now of three matchups, I think most honest and knowledgeable fans would agree that CMS was actually the better team.  I think tonight that Oxy got a lot of breaks down the stretch that enabled them to get the win.  ...  CMS played a horrible first half offensively, missing many layups.  ...  Mani Maceira missed a few midrange jumpers that he usually sinks with ease and John Parsons and Dan Winterbottom were a combined 1 for 11 from 3pt.  ... The difference might have been Oxy's defense if not CMS' missed layups.  Oxy's D pressured well and the Stags were not able to handle the physical play in the first half.  In the second half, the true CMS squad showed up and they pretty much dominated most of the second half.  The first half lapse was too much to overcome and it did not help playing in the Oxy gym which was a clear, and probably one of the bigger "breaks" that Oxy got.  I do not think Oxy would have had a chance at Ducey where the Stags finished undefeated this year.

--Stags4Life

I am a bit befuddled by your post, and I am among those who thought CMS was the better of the two teams.  I didn't listen to last night's game, but it's hard to believe it came down to a few bad breaks when you then provide a litany of things the Stags did poorly.  It's the NCAA tournament, you can't have a bunch of breakdowns against a good team and expect to win.

Congratulations to the Stags on a good run through the conference and a well deserved championship, and good luck to the Tigers as they head north to play UPS.  This is a real chance for Oxy to demonstrate their early season promise was for real.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Howlinwolf on March 03, 2006, 11:25:45 am
Two words for Stag4Life: Sour grapes.

I agree that there isn't much difference between these two teams. And I agree CMS misses a number of chip shots. Nerves? Better interior defense by Oxy? Whatever, they didn't drop. CMS's seniors didn't play with the leadership and composure it takes to win in the playoffs.

Miles Taylor is a very good player, but if I had a nickel for every lowered shoulder he lays into a defender, I'd be retired by now. Beefing about that single call makes little sense, never mind shots that "normally" would have fallen.

To end your post with an unfounded knock on Whitman is classless.

 The three games against Oxy were tight, physical battles against two determined teams.  Congrats. CMS had a great season.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bballfan2 on March 03, 2006, 11:56:28 am
Miles Taylor is a very good player, but if I had a nickel for every lowered shoulder he lays into a defender, I'd be retired by now. Beefing about that single call makes little sense, never mind shots that "normally" would have fallen.

To end your post with an unfounded knock on Whitman is classless.

For starters if he drops his shoulder then take a charge. And second, way to deliver a backhanded compliment then tell Howlin to be more classy. 

Finally, posting's been fun, but after a fun career I think I'm about to retire my playing and posting, good luck to Oxy up at UPS. Though I reserve the right to make the occasional Fosheezie like appearance.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: ds0097 on March 03, 2006, 12:10:58 pm
Tiger faithful are probably rallying pre-game at the Ram in Tacoma (8 minutes from the game) on 3001 N Ruston Way, Tacoma, WA 98402-5306. 
 

I would recomend either doing your pregame at The Spar (2121 North 30th Street, Tacoma, WA 98403, www.the-spar.com) or Katie Downs (3211 Ruston Way, Tacoma, Washington), both are right by the Ram, have better food, and most importantly, much better beer. Katie Downs has better TVs, but has a mellower atmosphere because it doesn't get too many college students (so maybe classier is a better description...). The Spar has more of a bar atmosphere and will be livelier and will probably have better specials. It also will have some Loggers, whatever effect that has on your decision...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: dj_hyphen on March 03, 2006, 12:47:43 pm
i recommend that you stay out of Tacoma in general except for the game  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on March 03, 2006, 12:54:37 pm
Congrats to the tigers for doing their best against a good stags team. The last few post pointed out pretty much what the game came out to be like and how the environment looked around the gym.

Good luck heading up north and playing in tacoma. It's awesome up there and should be the right setting for the tigers to take round 2 away from the Loggers.

Tigersports---- will you be streaming the game on-line this weekend?

Go Tigers
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 03, 2006, 01:40:26 pm
I would recomend either doing your pregame at The Spar (2121 North 30th Street, Tacoma, WA 98403, www.the-spar.com) or Katie Downs (3211 Ruston Way, Tacoma, Washington), both are right by the Ram, have better food, and most importantly, much better beer. Katie Downs has better TVs, but has a mellower atmosphere because it doesn't get too many college students (so maybe classier is a better description...). The Spar has more of a bar atmosphere and will be livelier and will probably have better specials. It also will have some Loggers, whatever effect that has on your decision...

both of those are good suggestions for the classy crowd.  for those looking to have a true Tacoma-type experience, head to the West End Tavern on the southeast corner of 6th Ave and N. Proctor.  Pluses included cheap drinks, good food, sightings of local T-town freaks, and most importantly, you can stumble the six blocks or so it is away from the Fieldhouse.  Dive bar doesn't begin to discribe this place, though it is a pre and post game fav.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 03, 2006, 01:49:24 pm
From what I understand, the Tigers planned ahead as though they were going to be playing on Saturday in terms of making tentative travel arrangements, etc.  Having traveled to Utah State and playing at a tough Azusa Pacific this year, I don't think they will be too intimidated by the environment.  They have also played at UNLV in the last year as well.  But, we'll see tomorrow.

Also, I think traveling to Tacoma may be a little less stressful than say...Storm Lake, IA.  And we all remember what happened then.

I don't know much about UPS' coach, but I know that Newhall has top of the line assistants.  For UPS fans, you'll see what I mean come Saturday.

I dont think you can compare what the Tigers are going to face at UPS with their games at UNLV, Utah State and AZUSA.  I am pretty sure there were not 3000+ plus fans ranting and raving at those venues, and they werent NCAA atmospheres....granted they were against better talent.  But this is not a throw away game...this is a tournament game on the road.  And the crowd will be relentless.  As for Storm Lake, IA with 7 seniors on that OXY squad, this is much different.  They are playing a team in UPS that is relentless defensively.  They dont walk the ball up, and dont allow teams to run their offense.  Plus, Phillips is the only one that experienced that atmosphere.......from the bench.   I wish the Tigers/SCIAC the best of luck.  But going against that UPS squad at their place will  be nothing they have ever experienced in the last 2 years.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: ds0097 on March 03, 2006, 02:22:01 pm
both of those are good suggestions for the classy crowd.  for those looking to have a true Tacoma-type experience, head to the West End Tavern on the southeast corner of 6th Ave and N. Proctor.  Pluses included cheap drinks, good food, sightings of local T-town freaks, and most importantly, you can stumble the six blocks or so it is away from the Fieldhouse.  Dive bar doesn't begin to discribe this place, though it is a pre and post game fav.

Loggerville, do you really want it on our heads if one of the Oxy fans gets shot before the game? Of course it is a much truer representation of Tacompton...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyD on March 03, 2006, 02:28:20 pm
I don't think CMS is the better 'team', rather they have a few better 'players'. 

I'd actually argue (with plenty of bias, of course) that Oxy's got the better team and the better players. Betty played 25 minutes, Taylor played 36. Betty scored 11, Taylor scored 16. Taylor might have had a bigger impact on his team, but that's only because the rest of them either can't shot the ball or think they are Reggie Miller and throw up 40-footers with 30 seconds on the shot clock. Betty doesn't have to drive every time he puts his hands on the ball because he knows that someone else will be able to contribute. Instead, he waits for good opportunities. That explains his 4-5 from the field as opposed to Taylor's 6-11.

They're both good players, but I don't think the evidence clearly favors Taylor. The game would have been much different if Betty hadn't gotten in foul trouble early.

Additionally, Betty has been really sick this past week. He hasn't been in class at all. Just throwing that out there.

My favorite part of the game: "we chose oxy."
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyD on March 03, 2006, 02:33:43 pm
Forgot to add this one bit:

11/25 = .44 PPM
16/36 = .44
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Eye of da TIGER on March 03, 2006, 03:44:07 pm
Very exciting game last night!!! The gym was rocking last nite, but maybe thats becuse i was sitting in the middle of the Oxy student section.  Congrats to both the Tigers and the Stags.  Its too bad I cant make the road trip up to Tacoma this Saturday.  With two test reviews on friday, the infamous LigerLover's 22nd bday celebration, and on top of that a 23 hour bus ride to Cabo San Lucas for spring break next week, Im going to have to cheer on my Tigers from Eagle Rock. 

OxyD,
I'm glad that you enjoyed the "We Chose Oxy" chant.  We had to come up with something to fire back at the CMS fans for the "Secondary School" and "CMS Rejects" chant.  I think we did a good job of that. ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: TeeDub on March 03, 2006, 03:49:25 pm
I don't think CMS is the better 'team', rather they have a few better 'players'. 

I'd actually argue (with plenty of bias, of course) that Oxy's got the better team and the better players. Betty played 25 minutes, Taylor played 36. Betty scored 11, Taylor scored 16. Taylor might have had a bigger impact on his team, but that's only because the rest of them either can't shot the ball or think they are Reggie Miller and throw up 40-footers with 30 seconds on the shot clock. Betty doesn't have to drive every time he puts his hands on the ball because he knows that someone else will be able to contribute. Instead, he waits for good opportunities. That explains his 4-5 from the field as opposed to Taylor's 6-11.


Dude, don't get me wrong, I think Betty is awesome....and, Phillips is solid, Kostic is solid, Whitman can get you on some nights and Zebb is a tough competitor...all that being said I still think that Taylor is the most well-rounded, multi-dimensional player the SCIAC has to offer and Parsons "should be" the best guard in the conference given his athleticism and poise.  I wasn't basing my previous statement on last night's game.  If I were, Parsons would have had his First Team - All Conference status removed.  Maceira too for that matter.  I just meant over the course of the season, the Oxy squad is one that has good players who play very well together (even though I wish they would have fed Betty in the post a little more last night) while CMS has two or three very good players who don't seem to connect with one another very well.

FYI: I really have no allegiance to either program.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on March 03, 2006, 04:06:21 pm
Checked out the NWC's thread, pretty much dead.  Maybe it is because UPS has been so dominant everyone else has gone on to other things.  That or the kids would rather be sipping their latte's at SBucks staying out of the rain.  Interesting that UPS has been able to generate such a following.  3000 fans is legit, especially given that the regular hoops fans will be at the Dome watching 3A ball.  We can look to model ourselves after the NWC in some respects.  The NWC has been running their athletic operations at a different level for a number of years now.   Take a look at their conference Website and you will understand immediately that these institutions care about excellence.  

Smart of Pacific to tap into a Kats protoge for their future.  Look for Pacific in the Sweet 16 within 4 years.  

UPS program is on a different level.  Good coaches, tough talent, solid system and consistent institutional support.  You don't beat UC Riverside unless you are legit - even as bad of a D1 as they are.  Still, I'm not counting out Newhall & staff, because these guys are finding ways to get things done in the Tourney and against higher ranked teams that no SCIAC team has done.  UPS has a crazy system but I'm not sure it is more solid than Oxy's.  Just different.   I will say that I think UPS's system will run into some serious issues against the UW schools, where the talent gaps flip the other way.  

I'll be there pulling for our boys to give them a game.  And you never know, on any given night...

 

  
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: walzy31 on March 03, 2006, 04:41:42 pm
Thanks to the SCIAC

MCLA (MASCAC) to Duke (ACC)

MCLA beat Fitchburg St. by 4
Fitchburg St. beat Newbury by 4
Newbury beat Roger Williams by 20
Roger Williams beat Curry by 5
Curry beat Trinity by 5
Trinity beat Amherst by 3
Amherst beat Pomona-Pitzer by 19
Pomona-Pitzer beat Whitworth by 4
Whitworth beat Puget Sound by 24
Puget Sound beat UC Riverside by 4
UC Riverside beat Pacific by 8
Pacific beat Texas A&M by 7
Texas A&M beat Texas by 3
Texas beat West Virginia by 1
West Virginia beat Georgetown by 13
Georgetown beat Duke by 3

Duke is currently #1 (until Monday)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on March 03, 2006, 07:32:56 pm
Great game, great atmosphere. 

A first half marked with missed oppotunities and tenacious defense by both teams made it interesting.  Claremont came on strong out of the break but just like everyone else has said Parsons couldn't do it by himself.  Great effort by the Tigers and Good Luck in Tacoma! Wish I could be there but I've got the same schedule as my pal Eye of da Tiger, so there's really no room for a 20 hour trip to watch our Tigers beat on some hippies.

Go Tigers!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on March 03, 2006, 11:04:05 pm
Yes, we will have the game at www.oxybroadcast.com.  Hopefully WCW and the others up there will come say hi.

Stag, I'm sorry bro, but that was just some sour grapes.  12 points in a half is a big hill to climb and CMS just pooped out after a great first 14 min to the second half.  I love Taylor and would probably like to have him as my own son (met his parents and they seem like great people) but even he was letting the Oxy crowd have it a bit, so go easy on Whitman.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: 1992 on March 04, 2006, 02:34:41 am
Good call on the Pacific hire WCW, glad to see a SCIAC assistant get a shot, word is he is on his way to doing for Pacific up there what Bridgeland has done for UPS.

Speaking of UPS, they will be ready to play, and they obviously hold the advantage tomorrow night at home and rested, tough task for Oxy.  Would be more fun to see these two on a nuetral court with equal rest and preparation time.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: castle on March 04, 2006, 03:13:09 am
Congrats to both Oxy and CMS for making the tourney; it is great to see 2 sciac teams get in! 

I wanted to mention that the broadcast of the game was great; and the tourney coverage on this site is better ever year.

On to UPS; the northwest has not been kind to sciac teams in the tourney in recent years.  CLU @ Linfield in '01. CMS @ LC in '02.  PP @ UPS in '04 all lost by good margins.  Hopefully Oxy can change the trend; but it will not be easy.  The style of play and crowd will try to force a fast pace; not Oxy's strenght.  Oxy will have a chance to win, if they can keep the score in 70's or low 80's.  Good luck to Tigers!

 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 04, 2006, 10:02:04 am
I think that I was speaking more in terms of the Tigers being familiar with traveling out-of-state, staying overnight, etc.  Most teams in the SCIAC consider a 1 hour drive a "road trip", right?  This team, more than any other in the SCIAC should be ready for the rigors that come with traveling.  Now, having just played on Thursday night and then turning around and traveling the next day...that might be another issue.

I know it will be a tough environment with the 3,000 fans, but hey, it's March and we're still playing.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 04, 2006, 10:07:02 am
With McBride, Whitman, Alexander, Mills, Kostic and Betty all coming back next year, this Tiger squad could be dangerous next season too. 

Getting into the tournament and being successful can do nothing but help Newhall and his staff in terms of at least getting some more kids to look into studying at Oxy.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 04, 2006, 10:32:15 am
Loggerville, do you really want it on our heads if one of the Oxy fans gets shot before the game? Of course it is a much truer representation of Tacompton...

great point, but when in Tacoma.....
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 04, 2006, 10:43:54 am
Smart of Pacific to tap into a Kats protoge for their future.  Look for Pacific in the Sweet 16 within 4 years. 

Ok, up-front I will say that I know nothing of Pacific's new coach, so this is not aimed at him in any way.  But Cal Tech will win the SCIAC in the next four years before Pacific makes a NCAA sweet 16.  Just too much for that program to overcome from an institutional perspective regardless of who the coach is in that short of a window...not gonna happen.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on March 04, 2006, 11:09:39 am
Loggerfrontrunnerville, they said the same thing about Kats at Pomona.  Before he came on board the school had one only 1 SCIAC title in a century and wasn't that far removed from Cal tech.  Interesting to note that Popovich coached there a decade and won only 1 title and also that under Popovich, I'm pretty sure Pomona was the last varsity SCIAC team to lose to Cal Tech.  Would have been funny for Rick Reilly to note that this year in his article.  Might want to keep that in mind before you make a blanket statement about Pacific.  A great coach can do wonders.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2006, 11:27:48 am
Yes, Loggerville, only West Coast Whiner is allowed to make blanket statements about Pacific. :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: 1992 on March 04, 2006, 01:07:05 pm

Loggerville, you may know more about Pacific as an athletic institution than you do about their coach, and the same the other way around for WCW, yes- a Sweet 16 in 4 years is a short window, but saying Cal Tech will win the SCIAC before that will happen is a minor stretch. 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on March 04, 2006, 01:38:17 pm
I keep reading posts about the system that UPS runs but how does it compare to Redlands. Obviously they run it better than Redlands but is it the same concept (press D all game and lots of shooting) or is it a more controlled up-tempo game?

Took a look at UPS BBall website; very impressive stats over the past 2 seasons. Oxy will need to control this game the way they did in the game against Amhearst. Obviously, the atmosphere at UPS will be the polar opposite of that game (not a home game, etc) but look for the Tigers to go to Betty early and often just like they did against Amhearst. If anyone can play with some of the best players/teams in D-III, it's Betty.

Great to see this board liven up over the season and everybody back the SCIAC, regardless of what team they are a fan of. Let's all hope Oxy can pull-off the victory in front of what seems to be a great crowd at UPS and get some more recognition for SCIAC basketball.

Just out of curiosity ... When was the last time a SCIAC school won conference titles in both football and basketball in the same year? I think some oxy fans, including myself, felt we had a legit shot this year but we'll take the trip to UPS over the title.

Game time tonight???
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on March 04, 2006, 02:44:34 pm
Game time is 7pm local time for all the games.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 03:17:27 pm
I keep reading posts about the system that UPS runs but how does it compare to Redlands. Obviously they run it better than Redlands but is it the same concept (press D all game and lots of shooting) or is it a more controlled up-tempo game?

UPS doesn't run the Grinnell system, a la Redlands. They play a more conventional pressing, run-and-gun game.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on March 04, 2006, 06:38:45 pm
PC, always there to keep me in check.  Comforting to know you are there for me. 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 04, 2006, 09:19:18 pm
Loggerfrontrunnerville, they said the same thing about Kats at Pomona.  Before he came on board the school had one only 1 SCIAC title in a century and wasn't that far removed from Cal tech.  Interesting to note that Popovich coached there a decade and won only 1 title and also that under Popovich, I'm pretty sure Pomona was the last varsity SCIAC team to lose to Cal Tech.  Would have been funny for Rick Reilly to note that this year in his article.  Might want to keep that in mind before you make a blanket statement about Pacific.  A great coach can do wonders.

WCW - Keep what in mind?  That Pop couldn't win at PP so your buddy Kats is a better coach?  That it is easier to win in the SCIAC then the NWC?  What exactly would you like me to keep in mind?  Come on WCW, my point is simply that a school such as Pacific, which is struggling with an athletic identity, has a long way to go to a Sweet 16.  For starters they will have to climb into the top three of a deep deep conference just to get into a NWC-playoff game.  Let’s allow the team to win more than 25% of their NWC games before you go running your mouth about a Sweet 16 appearance.  I’m sure the program will improve under new blood, but your putting a lot of stock into a man who will have to fight with alumni and others for program resources given the decision to add football at PAC in '07.  Best of luck to him, just can't let you make the blanket "he will save the Boxers" statement.  Where am I, the NWC board?

And Loggerfrontrunnerville - is that the best you can do?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on March 04, 2006, 10:44:23 pm
42-40 UPS over Oxy at the half.  Exciting game to be listening to . . . Tigersports you're doing a great job on the broadcast.

GO TIGERS!!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on March 04, 2006, 11:21:04 pm
63-63 with 9:20 remaining.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 04, 2006, 11:23:03 pm
In response to the Oxy radio commentator question about UPS colors....he noted a "change" from green and gold to the current white and maroon.  the current colors are the original colors from the founding of the University; green and gold was the choice of the football program in the early 60's (hey day of the Packers and all) when they had a chance to pick "athletic" colors.  The return to white and maroon was done when UPS became DIII members in Fall of 1999.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 04, 2006, 11:51:10 pm
Good job Tigers.  Way to represent the SCIAC.  Close game until the last 3:00 minutes. 

Hopefully, this will give us a better rep nationally.  Was looking forward to seeing the Tigers here in the Midwest...But, maybe next year!

Don't hang your heads!

UPS  89
Oxy  81  Final.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 04, 2006, 11:51:29 pm
Great D3 NCAA game....Oxy played a good game and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see these two programs match-up in the future in the NCAA's.  A nice representation of SCIAC hoops – getting closer  8).

Props to the Oxy radio crew, a very well called game.  Think they hit it on the head at the end with the statement that it seemed like the Tigers were tired from the pressure.  That's the intent of the pressure - it gets most teams eventually.  Awesome job on the offensive glass by McVey, he is a handful.

On to the the 16's....WestCoastWhiner, I'll take some pictures and we can send them to Pacific so they can start planning for that run in 4 years.  :D

Go Loggers!!!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on March 04, 2006, 11:51:58 pm
89-81 final, UPS over Oxy.  Great game.  Excellent showing Tigers!  You'll get'em next year.  

Io Triumphe
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on March 05, 2006, 11:24:16 am
Great game.  Loggers are a tough team.  Good shooters with a heck of a post player.   I wish them luck as they advance.   

Tigers played well.  The entire team showed up.  Their back up point guard was sensational.  Gets the game MVP for the Tigers.  We'll miss him and Zach, who will be difficult to replace.   Zach improved a ton in 4 years from the kid and accomplished a lot (3-1 in the NCAAs, UNLV, Cal St. Fullerton W, Utah St., USC).   

SCIAC fans, we advanced our cause this year.  With the NWC being as tough as it is, our road to Salem could very well lead us back to them.  And we showed this year we can play with them.   We have to shoot to get those guys at home because they will be tough to beat on the road.  As tough as UPS is, we are right there with them.  They play different than everyone in our conference; the most physical brand of basketball we'll come across.  For someone who hasn't seen their system before, I was very impressed by the D.  Lots of physical contact on the ball.  Reminded me of a DIII St. Josephs.   In a SCIAC gym or a neutral court they will have to make adjustments.  I'm sure they can, or they wouldn't have won as many games as they have. 

Good luck Loggers.  We'll pull for you.  Keep your big out of foul trouble and you can play with the beef eaters.  Get him in foul trouble and I'd be concerned.  Love your frosh point.     

We can play with the NWC on the road.  If Salem runs through them, so be it.




 

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: fosheezie on March 05, 2006, 06:30:17 pm
With all of the talk going on about Jason Lowery Pacific's new coach, I will add my two cents.  He will turn the program around and I have a feeling it will be done within the next four years.  He turned cellar dweller NAIA Hope International into a force years ago and he helped build PP's dominance with the titles in the recent years, he definately knows what he is doing.....Add that he is from Portland, has many connections, and recruit his butt off, yes, they will be up there soon.  He is a smart guy, great coach, and the players will play hard for him, so watch the Boxers in years to come.

Oh yeah, by the way, Pomona wasn't the last SCIAC team to lose to Cal Tech, it was La Verne!

Fosheezie Out-
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: pomonaalum on March 05, 2006, 06:53:34 pm
Hopefully Lowery isn't the one teaching the fundamentals of shooting...
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 06, 2006, 01:47:53 am
Even though the way they play is definitely different, I am surprised that a SCIAC school "would run out of gas" against a fast paced school, when they regularly play the likes of Redlands. :'(

Just wanted to say congrats to Oxy on a great season.... confusing there for a little while, but I was glad to see the team sort out some major issues in the end!

I will look forward to chatting with you guys again next year.  ;) :) :-*
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on March 06, 2006, 10:28:31 am
My hats go off to Puget sound and Oxy for playing a close game on saturday. But, most of all, congrats to for playing a hard game after one days rest. That sure tells you a lot. I hope puget sound does well in the coming weeks against those East coast schools.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 04:14:10 am
My hats go off to Puget sound and Oxy for playing a close game on saturday. But, most of all, congrats to for playing a hard game after one days rest. That sure tells you a lot. I hope puget sound does well in the coming weeks against those East coast schools.

"East Coast schools"?

Lawrence -- Wisconsin
Augustana -- Illinois
Illinois Wesleyan -- duh

You'd have to spend a minimum of fourteen hours in a car driving east from any of those campuses just to get a whiff of salt air.

Browneagle, you might want to acquaint yourself with a little geographic concept that those of us here in Flyover U.S.A. like to call "the midwest."  ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Browneagle64 on March 07, 2006, 10:34:03 am
Alright, well thanks for adding them too Greg.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 09:59:48 pm
Gregory Sager:

>>Browneagle, you might want to acquaint yourself with a little geographic concept that those of us here in Flyover U.S.A. like to call "the midwest."<<

Tell it to the University of Michigan, which has been confused for years about its location:

"Hail! Hail! to Michigan, the champions of the West!"

OxyBob

... or to Michigan's Big Ten rival, Northwestern University. Northwestern is located in Evanston, IL, which isn't exactly in the vicinity of Seattle or Portland.

What cracks me up is that the Northwestern campus is three miles east of the campus of Northeastern Illinois University.  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2006, 11:29:48 pm
Gregory Sager:

>>Browneagle, you might want to acquaint yourself with a little geographic concept that those of us here in Flyover U.S.A. like to call "the midwest."<<

Tell it to the University of Michigan, which has been confused for years about its location:

"Hail! Hail! to Michigan, the champions of the West!"

OxyBob

When 'Hail to the Victors' was written (which, incidentally, no less than John Phillips Sousa dubbed "the greatest fight song of all time") the Big Ten (unofficial motto: so we can't count - you got a problem with that?) was known as the Western Conference.

A bit of Rose Bowl trivia: first fball game (1902?) - Michigan 49, Stanford 0 (Stanford forfeited during the 3rd quarter!).  The Tournament of Roses parade decided to go with other 'sidelights' for several years thereafter, then resumed fball games but NOT with the Western Conference/Big Ten.  First rematch between teams now in the Pac 10 and Big Ten, 1949(?).  Result: Michigan 49, Stanford 0!  (But at least they played the whole game!) ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2006, 11:37:14 pm
BTW, before anyone starts knocking my karma even lower, I'm well aware that the Big Ten has lately been taking it on the chin in the Rose Bowl! ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2006, 03:03:40 am
LOL!

Bo did have a VERY disastrous stint as GM/President of the Tigers (not that anyone since has been much better!); I'd forgotten that he even knew baseball existed!  But football - that he knew (despite his Rose Bowl record)!

Since Fielding Yost and Fritz Crisler are long since deceased, lay off our 'Living Legend'!  Sorry, UM nerves are a bit tender with the two BIG sports a bit in the dumps - but our softball team sure did kick everyone's butts! ;D :o
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: steveflegel on March 08, 2006, 03:44:50 pm
Mr. Yipsi,

Sorry to be a stickler for the facts, but your information about the Rose Bowl is inaccurate.  The Big Ten vs. Pac 10 (or Pacific Coast as it was known) resumed in 1947.  Illinois beat UCLA 45-14.  The 1949 game was Northwestern 20, Cal 14.  Michigan did play in 1948, but beat USC, not Stanford, 49-0.

The Pac-10's first win did not come until 1953 when USC beat Wisconsin 7-0.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 08, 2006, 06:42:10 pm
Mr. Yipsi,

Sorry to be a stickler for the facts, but your information about the Rose Bowl is inaccurate.  The Big Ten vs. Pac 10 (or Pacific Coast as it was known) resumed in 1947.  Illinois beat UCLA 45-14.  The 1949 game was Northwestern 20, Cal 14.  Michigan did play in 1948, but beat USC, not Stanford, 49-0.

The Pac-10's first win did not come until 1953 when USC beat Wisconsin 7-0.

I stand corrected on both the year and the team - but I DID remember those strangely identical scores after a nearly half-century gap!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 09, 2006, 02:07:49 am
I was just looking around on Lincoln University's basketball site.   First off, very impressive (compared to what we're used to here) site with detailed player Bios...

They certainly attract some good players there.  They seem to get a lot of good talent from Philadelphia and Baltimore/Washington, which is natural given its proximity to both cities. 

On another note, are they the only HBCU in D3?

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2006, 10:32:42 am
I was just looking around on Lincoln University's basketball site.   First off, very impressive (compared to what we're used to here) site with detailed player Bios...

They certainly attract some good players there.  They seem to get a lot of good talent from Philadelphia and Baltimore/Washington, which is natural given its proximity to both cities. 

On another note, are they the only HBCU in D3?

Rust College (Holly Springs, MS) and Fisk University (Nashville, TN) are also D3 HBCUs.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on March 09, 2006, 09:33:25 pm
Knibb High Football Rules!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on March 13, 2006, 06:52:44 pm
Logger, thanks for the kind words and the insight on the colors.  I just found it odd and curious that a banner and someone's old "Go UPS" (I'm paraphrasing) shirt would be in different colors than what I was seeing.  Had never seen something like that before.  Thanks for clearing it up. 

OAN, we need a bracketbuster weekend of NWC/SCIAC games during Christmas break.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 13, 2006, 09:27:24 pm
From the Front Page:

All-Region
Voting deadline
11 p.m. ET!

You just gotta hope that SOME SCIAC SID reads that, and nominates SOMEone...  :-\

(cough) ...Miles Taylor...  :)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 14, 2006, 01:55:11 am
Nominations closed last week. This is the voting period.

Miles Taylor was nominated. Not sure how many SCIAC SIDs voted in support of their conference members.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 14, 2006, 08:56:05 pm
Once again another travesty in the all-region voting!!!

Mazarei -1st Team (6th place team)
Betty and Taylor - 2nd Team (2 best players in SCIAC)
Curtiss and McVey (UPS) - 3rd team (2 leading scorers on an elite 8 team)

Are you kidding me with this.  How does the MVP and the 2nd best player in the SCIAC get 2nd team when Mazarei was on a 6th place team.  If you want to go with your "traditional team" of 2 guards/2 forwards/center....1 forward/2 centers.....then how does Mazarei get ahead of Curtiss, the leading scorer for an ELITE 8 team at the guard position??

I am having flashbacks of the other shooter a few years ago from Redlands (a 6th place team that year) that got 1st team over Avedian (3rd team), the MVP of SCIAC.  Ok so you go with pts/game.  If you take Mazarei off Redlands team......Redlands is still a 6th place team in the SCIAC.  If you take Taylor, Betty, Curtiss or McVey off their respected teams......well, I think you get the idea.  Doesnt coming from a winning team carry any weight in the voter's mind?  Congrats to all, I think the players that made the All-Region team are all deserving, except Mazarei.  I just think they are in the wrong order. 

And one last note.....Taylor could be listed as PG or G or F or C....he was that good and that versatile.....so throw that "traditional team" garbage statement out.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2006, 04:37:31 am
Doesnt coming from a winning team carry any weight in the voter's mind? 

I don't think so. I believe it takes five people to play basketball. One person does not a team make.

Do I think he's a little high on the list? Umm, yeah. Did a lot of SCIAC schools cast their votes? I think you know that answer without me having to say it. Three did, which I think is one more than usual.

Remember, too, since you seem to not realize this: Mazarei and Taylor/Betty were never in competition with each other. Frontcourt and backcourt are voted on separately. Where one is in relation to the others is not a reflection of their comparative value. There are more good frontcourt players in the West Region this year than backcourt players.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: RFB on March 15, 2006, 11:19:31 am
Haters
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2006, 11:33:10 am
Haters

:)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 15, 2006, 01:29:36 pm
Remember, too, since you seem to not realize this: Mazarei and Taylor/Betty were never in competition with each other. Frontcourt and backcourt are voted on separately. Where one is in relation to the others is not a reflection of their comparative value. There are more good frontcourt players in the West Region this year than backcourt players.

You are absolutely right......I didnt realize this......................

.....then how does Mazarei get ahead of Curtiss, the leading scorer for an ELITE 8 team at the guard position??
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: WestCoastWhiner on March 15, 2006, 02:31:31 pm
OxyBob, to the extent there are any results on the All-Region teams that don't make sense we only have to look at our SIDs.  Someone at Redlands was working hard on that guy's behalf.  Then again, maybe his dropping 57 on the Tigers at the Rock was enough to get that guy the 1st team all-region votes.   Either the guy is just that good or Oxy's guards defend that poorly.    

After watching the Oxy - PLU game I too wonder how Betty could have made it over McVey.  Betty had an unbelieveable 1st half against him but then McVey simply owned Betty in the second half.  Betty got in some foul trouble but it was clear that with the game on the line, which of those guys made the mental decision to step up.  McVey would have gotten my vote.   If Betty makes a decision to put the effort in that McVey does on the glass, he will be a 1st team all-america next year.

The beauty of this year is that everyone in the SCIAC got to see what I have been talking about for years on this thread: Salem is not a far-fetched dream.  Oxy beats Amherst, Final 4 team.  Oxy loses close one at PLU, who was within a couple of minutes and a few missed jumpers away from the Final Four.

A couple of more players for some of our teams and we can have several teams capable of making deep runs.  

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: RFB on March 15, 2006, 03:37:41 pm
No doubt about being a hater. Must be the 57 points Mazarai dropped on Oxy at Ghetto Rock.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2006, 03:45:20 pm
.....then how does Mazarei get ahead of Curtiss, the leading scorer for an ELITE 8 team at the guard position??

Probably does have something to do with what the previous posters are saying.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 15, 2006, 05:28:27 pm
And the SID's are great judges of talent.  They dont even watch the games.  They are to busy with their nose in the computer during the games, imputting stats from what their spotter is saying.  They are basing everything on what the stat sheet says, and not what impact that player has on the game or for his team.  Like I said, you take Amir off Redlands...they are still a 6th place team.  You take Curtiss off UPS (since we need to stick with guards) they dont win conference, dont make playoffs and they certainly dont go to the ELITE 8, because he did so much more than just score....that guy was the heart and soul of that UPS squad......something that doesnt show up in a stat sheet.

And I dont care what is said about positions....if you are an MVP of a conference, and the best player on a conf. champion, and is as versatile (leading the team in scoring/rebounding) as Taylor is....that guy should be 1st team all-region....not someone that played on a 6th place SCIAC team.

I guess the 1st team all-region guard position should be reserved every year for the leading scorer of the Redlands system.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: RFB on March 15, 2006, 05:48:30 pm
Whiners
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 15, 2006, 06:23:45 pm
Amir was a huge difference maker.....

Redlands 5-9 in SCIAC.....9-15 overall

Jordan Carlson for D3 player of the year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: RFB on March 15, 2006, 06:34:20 pm
hater+whiner= sciacguru
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 15, 2006, 06:42:16 pm
Amir making 1st team all-West Region
        -funny

hater+whiner= sciacguru
        -clever

Redlands not making it out of 6th place for the last 7 years
        -priceless

p.s. How is the Bulldog FB program doing?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: RFB on March 15, 2006, 07:03:11 pm
Hey, I agree about Redlands hoops. Redlands will be down until Coach Smith hangs it up. I just think it is funny how much you're bitching about Mazarei making first team.

Redlands football is in good hands, trust me. I played there in the 90's when we owned the conference. They will be back on top real soon.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Liger Hoops on March 15, 2006, 09:15:32 pm
I played there in the 90's when we owned the conference. They will be back on top real soon.

Congrats on being that guy who always talks about his old program and how good they were when he played ... I can't wait to do the same  :D


Kudos to Betty and Taylor for making All-Region in a traditional system. Of course Mazarai lit up the Tigers and other teams but first team is a stretch. I wouldn't have been so shocked if Taylor or Betty (I'm sure 95% of this board would say Taylor) was on the 1st team and Mazarai dropped to the 2nd or 3rd team. Regardless, it's nice to see 3 players from the SCIAC get honored.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: RFB on March 16, 2006, 11:27:49 am
Sorry man, just stating the facts about Redlands football. It's nice to know a down year at Redlands is 5-4 and the rest of the conference and it's fans think the program is in shambles. But the reality is Redlands has as many SCIAC conference titles as Oxy does since 2000. Redlands will be back.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on April 22, 2006, 01:45:34 am
Whiner, you are right on about McVey.  He would've been MVP of SCIAC.  His play in half 2 was THE reason UPS won that game.  Put backs, tough inside hoops, etc., was critical to that win.  Oxy brought their game that night and could (not necessarily should) have won it.  The turning point was being up 73-72, turning the ball over 3 straight times and being behind 78-73.  It was Kiki's missed layup against Dr. D all over again.

You're also right about the program.  They are not far away and CMS would've represented just as well up there.  League has to keep up the 'mo.

RFB, don't know if you're new to the board, but let's raise the level of discourse to something that grads and fans of these fine institutions are accustomed.  The "Ghetto" comment was, at best, extremely ill-informed, especially given that there are probably five African-American, non-Oxy students within a three mile radius of campus.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on April 23, 2006, 11:10:38 pm
The "Ghetto" comment was, at best, extremely ill-informed, especially given that there are probably five African-American, non-Oxy students within a three mile radius of campus.

Normally I would have thrilled that there was finally a post on this board, but... What is up with associating the ghetto with African Americans? Aside from the fact that it is historically inaccurate, it's also, well, very prejudiced to assume all poor people who would live in city slums are black. :o :( :-\ :-[ :'( >:( ???
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: sciacguru on April 24, 2006, 12:46:42 am
but let's raise the level of discourse to something that grads and fans of these fine institutions are accustomed. 

diehard....I am right there with you.  But I liked this part of the quote better.

I guess Oxy fans are used to those levels of discourse.

That may drop the karma points down a bit!
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: 1992 on April 24, 2006, 01:03:54 am
So Tigersports?

A group of African-Americans makes a place ghetto?

Or a group without a high number of African-Americans makes it not ghetto?

This is what "grads and fans of these fine institutions are accustomed".

Good thing you don't represent us all.

All I can say Tigersports, is "wow".
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on April 25, 2006, 01:04:25 pm
Thought the board might be interested in an update on the facilities at Cal Lu.  The floors are going in and other finish work is being completed.  They've updated the photo gallery online:

http://www.callutheran.edu/about/watch_clu_grow.php

The main competition gym is the one without windows on the upper level (it has ceiling mounted volleyball apparatus in case you're trying to figure out what that is on the ceiling, I'd never seen that before - they'll be using the stanchion style hoops for games).  The practice gym is the one with the windows.  The one other room that's pictured is the weight room/fitness center.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 04, 2006, 03:31:55 pm
Thought the board might be interested in an update on the facilities at Cal Lu.  The floors are going in and other finish work is being completed.  They've updated the photo gallery online:

http://www.callutheran.edu/about/watch_clu_grow.php

The main competition gym is the one without windows on the upper level (it has ceiling mounted volleyball apparatus in case you're trying to figure out what that is on the ceiling, I'd never seen that before - they'll be using the stanchion style hoops for games).  The practice gym is the one with the windows.  The one other room that's pictured is the weight room/fitness center.


Nice... I'm enjoying watching the construction guys wander around.  :D ::)

It looks like it will be lovely... though I don't know what the old gym looks like either.  :D

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on May 05, 2006, 02:37:17 pm
Thanks, DieHard-

The old gym is literally a converted corrugated metal WWII era airplane hanger with a short floor (full of dead spots) low ceiling and interesting lighting.

Great home court advantage  ;D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 08, 2006, 05:43:37 pm
:D Sounds like it!  :D :D :D

The guys look busier right now, trucks driving around and everything... still no visible signs of a building yet though.  :D ;)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: scandihoovian on May 09, 2006, 10:29:46 am
Oh - I just realized that what you're looking at now is the pool construction site.  Scroll down the page and they have several pictures posted that show the interior and exterior of the new sports and fitness center.  The exterior is basically finished and they're putting the finishing touches on the interior.  It will be open for business at the start of the 2006-2007 academic year.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 09, 2006, 08:21:34 pm
Oh - I just realized that what you're looking at now is the pool construction site.  Scroll down the page and they have several pictures posted that show the interior and exterior of the new sports and fitness center.  The exterior is basically finished and they're putting the finishing touches on the interior.  It will be open for business at the start of the 2006-2007 academic year.

well what do you know...  :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on May 29, 2006, 06:13:06 pm
My message was aimed at what I perceived to be a pejorative reference to the area around Oxy, which is rich in ethnic diversity but is not by any definition -- whether a group of impoverished African-Americans (which is by far the most common usage of the name) or just an impoverished area generally -- a "ghetto."  I obviously took the comment to mean the former.   My only point was to say that the comment showed a lack of understanding of the area -- it was definitely not to demonstrate that Eagle Rock had very few African-Americans in the neighborhood or that this was a good thing.   My apologies to anyone who took it any other way.  My "discourse" comment was aimed, again, at what I thought was a cheap shot and something that didn't belong on the board -- a board that I participate in because of its spirited yet high-minded discourse.  I'd be happy to answer any public or private messages to discuss further if need be, but I think this clarifies what I said and meant.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 30, 2006, 06:07:36 pm
Actually, it is the latter, rather than the former.

It is not unusual for people to think what you said. However, what was stated, and is still being affirmed by you, is intrinsically offensive, because it is simply not the overarching case in the US. The statement is not fair to African-Americans themselves, considering the large percent of them who are sucessful financially, and who would improve the economic base around Oxy by moving in. It's also not fair to the Hispanic, White, and Asian populations that are living in terrible "ghetto" like conditions and who are passed over due to the lack of public understanding about the poverty, crime, and gang issues they face.

Personally, I still think of the tragic oppression of Jewish people in Europe during the reign of Hitler when I hear the term "ghetto", and the corresponding lack of response by the Americans of the time due to their own racism toward Jewish people....  And it actually bothers me that the term is now being used to describe something that is terrible to live in, but much, much less awful by degree compared to the forced systematic oppression of an entire people group.

But I guess that's just me.

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 30, 2006, 07:13:24 pm
whether a group of impoverished African-Americans (which is by far the most common usage of the name) or just an impoverished area generally -- a "ghetto." 
Actually, it is the latter, rather than the former.

It is not unusual for people to think what you said. However, what was stated, and is still being affirmed by you, is intrinsically offensive, because it is simply not the overarching case in the US. The statement is not fair to African-Americans themselves, considering the large percent of them who are sucessful financially, and who would improve the economic base around Oxy by moving in. It's also not fair to the Hispanic, White, and Asian populations that are living in terrible "ghetto" like conditions and who are passed over due to the lack of public understanding about the poverty, crime, and gang issues they face.

Personally, I still think of the tragic oppression of Jewish people in Europe during the reign of Hitler when I hear the term "ghetto", and the corresponding lack of response by the Americans of the time due to their own racism toward Jewish people....  And it actually bothers me that the term is now being used to describe something that is terrible to live in, but much, much less awful by degree compared to the forced systematic oppression of an entire people group.

But I guess that's just me.

'Alice',

While I agree with the gist of your post, I'll (much to my surprise!) have to stick up for what tigersports directly said.  I'm pretty sure that he is right that it is the former, not the latter.

In America, 'ghetto' seems to be reserved for poor blacks.  Barrio is for poor Hispanics.  Poor Asians (regardless of nationality) are Chinatowns.  Poor whites seem to go by a variety of pejoratives: slums, wrong side of the tracks, hillbillies, etc.  I don't recall many references (whether media or in person) of impoverished communities which were predominantly non-black being referred to as ghettos.

Of course, that in itself may be a reflection of racism.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 30, 2006, 07:41:14 pm
Ooof...

I'm not sure any good can come from a discussion of stereotypical names for places poor people of specific ethnic backgrounds live. This can only go badly.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 30, 2006, 08:07:37 pm
Pat,

I fully understand where you're coming from (and also understand the risks), but I'm not sure that an HONEST discussion of where things are (keeping in mind how we wish things would be) is ever a negative.

Call me a cock-eyed opimist.... ;)
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 30, 2006, 08:48:29 pm
One problem is that it's common, yes, if it is in fact common. But the more immediate problem is that he thinks it, and thinks it is okay to say it. You just basically told him that it was, because you also think it's common, and in most people's minds, common tends to equal okay. There is good in admitting that a situation is the way it so. But, just because you can validate that someone else thinks the same way as you doesn't make what you think right.

My original statement still stands.

Incidentally... http://www.webster.com/dictionary/ghetto

No racial group specified in the modern definition. Just an FYI.

America is a dream.
The poet says it was promises.
The people say it is promises-that will come true.
The people do not always say things out loud,
Nor write them down on paper.
The people often hold
Great thoughts in their deepest hearts
And sometimes only blunderingly express them,
Haltingly and stumblingly say them,
And faultily put them into practice.
The people do not always understand each other.
But there is, somewhere there,
Always the trying to understand,
And the trying to say,
"You are a man. Together we are building our land."
.... KEEP YOUR HAND ON THE PLOW! HOLD ON!

- Langston Hughes (one of my favorite African-American poets), "Freedom's Plow"

http://www.poemhunter.com/p/m/poem.asp?poet=6691&poem=32570

Yeah.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 30, 2006, 09:22:36 pm
As you expressed on the board (and I expressed to you privately), I believe his original statement was reprehensible.  But I believe his latest statement (for better or for worse) is correct.

That IS the common usage of the word (whatever implications that may or may not have).  And I disagree that common = good.  Overwhelming majorities once felt that either blacks or women voting, or blacks and whites sharing the same schools, were absurd ideas - I doubt you could find many people today thinking these were good ideas!  No INTELLIGENT person thinks that ideas are good JUST because they are common (especially after the first paragraph, I doubt that tigersports is under any delusions that I have ratified his original statement!).

But I am also of the opinion that ignoring the realities of where things are is a real hindrance to getting to where we think they ought to be.  Where this country is right now (IMO, but also based on polling data and LOTS of media reading) is that 'ghettos' are places where lots of poor African-Americans live.  If the majority are not African-American, it has some other name.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on May 31, 2006, 11:38:54 pm
I'm not sure that I want to get involved in this discussion as I agree with Pat that not much good can come of this.

I will say, however, that I honestly do not think TigerSports meant to ruffle anybody's feathers from his statement(s).  Having listened to his broadcasts for many years and also having corresponded with him privately over email, I don't think he meant any harm.   

Of course, any statement (public or private) can and often will have unforseen and unintended consequences.

I loved my experience in Eagle Rock and would not want to have lived anywhere else during my time in Southern CA.  It's my slice of L.A., and all of my memories originate from "The Rock."

Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on June 01, 2006, 12:34:52 am
OF21,

Thanks for the post.  I accept that tigersports initial post was clumsy rather than malicious - I've certainly been guilty of that often enough myself.

I still ponder the implications of the American tendency to have different names for areas of different races of poor people.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on June 03, 2006, 03:43:30 pm
Ypsi, you are right; my post was clumsy and I can certainly see how it could've been read to be offensive, so my apologies for that.  I simply took offense at how RFB (I originally wrote diehard, which was in error :'() attempted to characterize what I think is a vibrant, diverse neighborhood and I should've pointed my criticism that way.  I'm also sorry to cause such a stir.
Please trust me that I did not intend to make it out to mean anything offensive.  

How about if everyone heeds Pat's wish, accept my apology and intent on the honor system and we move on?  I'll take any private messages from anyone that wants the last word. 
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on June 03, 2006, 05:19:41 pm
You took offense at MY comment? ???
 
No doubt about being a hater. Must be the 57 points Mazarai dropped on Oxy at Ghetto Rock.

 I actually thought the campus area was really pretty. I woke/drove around for a while after the first round playoff game I attended.

How the heck is this being turned on me????????????????????
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 03, 2006, 10:24:22 pm
You might want to re-read who wrote that comment that DHF is quoting.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: tigersports on June 04, 2006, 01:15:53 pm
My apologies to diehard.  It was RFB that made the original comment.  Maybe I need to just take the summer off from the board.  ;)  See y'all in the fall.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: bulldogfan23 on June 19, 2006, 11:30:41 pm
any news on sciac recuiting?  Any good freshman coming in?
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 16, 2006, 02:42:25 pm
I was recently told that the SCIAC signed up with D3Scoreboard.com to run the standings and score reporting for its conference Web site. Under our partnership with D3Scoreboard.com (http://www.d3hoops.com/news.php?item=576), this means that when a SCIAC school reports a score to the conference, it will automatically be posted on D3hoops.com.

We hope this one-stop shopping will enable SCIAC schools to report scores in a timely manner, which I know will be of interest to fans here.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on July 16, 2006, 04:49:17 pm
I was recently told that the SCIAC signed up with D3Scoreboard.com to run the standings and score reporting for its conference Web site. Under our partnership with D3Scoreboard.com (http://www.d3hoops.com/news.php?item=576), this means that when a SCIAC school reports a score to the conference, it will automatically be posted on D3hoops.com.

We hope this one-stop shopping will enable SCIAC schools to report scores in a timely manner, which I know will be of interest to fans here.
It sounds like the SCIAC is coming out of the dark ages.  I hope this trend continues.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: diehardfan on July 16, 2006, 10:56:53 pm
I hope this trend continues.

Meeeeee too.  :)

Though, it begs the question... does the SCIAC post all it's game scores to it's website?  ??? :D
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on July 18, 2006, 01:42:35 am
Intense posting there for a little while.  Glad that's all over with.  (I blame RFB  :D)

Where can I find the All Region Teams?  I missed them when they came out and I'm not sure where they are on the site.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 18, 2006, 02:39:10 am
On the front page (and any D3hoops.com news page) there's a link under "Awards" in the right-hand rail.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on July 18, 2006, 02:53:33 am
Ugh... that was easy.    :-[

Thanks Pat.
Title: Re: Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on July 19, 2006, 05:29:44 pm
Was just visiting the Redlands website looking at the football schedule and noticed the headline that this will be the last year for the hoops coach.  Guess that means (1) extra effort in the unique offense this coming season and (2) a change of pace for the '07-08 season.

Thought I'd pass it on . . . b