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Posting Up (Division III basketball) => Women's Basketball => Great Lakes Region => Topic started by: MJA on February 24, 2005, 06:38:32 am

Title: MIAA
Post by: MJA on February 24, 2005, 06:38:32 am
From what I know she was only used sparingly when needed.....very end of the game to hit those three's....she didn't play against AC...I agree with tniem, probably to save her for later in the tourney.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2005, 06:59:52 am
An amazing performance by Kristen MacDonald last night, and a huge win for Calvin.  The strange part was that the two halves seemed like different games.  Clavin leads 21-18 at half, and then the teams score 50 and 53 points in the second half.  Hope couldn't buy a 3 point basket which really hurt.

The biggest surprise to me (this being only my 4th womens game this year) was how absolutely horrible the officiating was.   I have witnessed some really poor officiating in my life (including 3rd grade rec league) but nothing even close to this. This bordered on criminal.  In the first half they called a total of about 8 fouls - in the second half, something like 36.  And the fouls being called were so inconsistent.  Perfect example of their incosistency:

- A Hope player scores on a layup and goes down, grabbing her knee, and stuggling to get back up.  She eventualy gets up and hobbles down court - no interaction from the refs.  While she is hobbling down court, Calvin scores on a similar play, and the Calvin player is now hobbling - whistle to stop play.

I typically follow the mens games more closely - and I am known to let the officials know what I think.  I can tell you that I will be shaking the hand of every official we have on the mens side - because I have now seen how bad it could really be.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 25, 2005, 09:17:35 am
A strange season. Hope beat Calvin twice; Calvin beat Albion twice; and Albion  beat Hope twice. At least, I think that's how it went.  

MacDonald  was ice cold in the first two  meetings with Hope, hitting on 2 of 23  field goal attempts.  But this night she got 40 points,  topping the MIAA previous tournament record of 34, and tying the Calvin record. In addition, she set the Calvin season mark for assists.

After a hard-fought first half that saw Calvin take a 21-18 lead with a three by MacDonald at the end, she added three more treys early in the second half to raise the lead to as much as 12. Hope battled back furiously, but would come no closer than four.

Add sudden-death playoffs to an already intense Calvin-Hope rivalry, mix in seniors possibly playing their last games, and you get quite a spectacle!
Title: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 25, 2005, 10:48:07 am
Tniem- sorry i didn't get the post before the game I would have met you.  I was there.  I was actually doing the book for calvin at the table.  I probably stood out like a sore thumb with all the blue and orange around me with me being in gold, but oh well.  I will be at the guys game tonight if you want to meet there.

FDF- I will have to totally disagree with you about the referees.  I will give you that you have a lagitamate gripe about when bria was hurt and they didn't stop play and then holleman got hurt and they did, but lets remember that it is the trail referees decision to stop the play or not.  One official, the one following bria up the court decided that he couldn't stop the play, and the one following hollemans thought he could, so its a judgment call that one decided to make and the other didn't.

I thought the officiating was fine.  I thought they did a nice job.  They were a little more call happy in the second half, but they kept it even.  Lets also remember the time they called three fouls on calvin within 5 seconds of eachother.  I was doing the book and it was within 5 seconds of eachother.  Also, while doing the book, the hope book keeper and I were talking a lot and he seamed to think that yes somethings needed to be called more, but that overall it was a well officiated game.

In the end, no one is able to say that officiating affected the outcome.  MacDonald wasn't missing, hope didn't play defense on her ( which is to her credit for creating the space she needs to shoot) and calvin was very tough on the defensive end.  Overall, I think that the game could have gone either way, but Calvin happened to get a few tips and loose balls here and there with some amazing shooting from macdonald.

Just another great installment in the Hope/Calvin rivalry and i can't wait for the guys game and the women's championship on saturday
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 25, 2005, 11:36:10 am
Knightrider - I never said that the outcome of the game was decided by the refs.  I do totally disagree with you about the consistency in the calls - and I don't mean versus one team or the other.  The problem I had is that a foul during one part of the game should be a foul the entire game - they were totally in-consistent about that - and it was similar to a roller coaster ride.  That makes it very difficult for the players to play, as the officials are basically changing the rules.
Title: MIAA
Post by: wizard on February 25, 2005, 09:35:31 pm
FDF, have a nice summer!
Title: MIAA
Post by: tniem on February 25, 2005, 10:20:55 pm
Knight - sorry I wasn't on at all today.  Would have loved to meet you at the guy's game tonight.  Would have been the one bright spot for me.  Hope you enjoyed the last two nights.  Maybe at a baseball game this spring?

MacDonald played amazing last night.  She accounted for something like 2/3rds of your points.  That was just a great effort.  If she is able to do that every night, you can't lose.

I agree with FDF on the officiating, I thought Hope got away with murder (and vice versa to a degree) on the perimeter but there were a number of touch falls underneath.  But, you almost never lose because of the stripes, last night we lost because of a one-woman wrecking crew.  Tonight, a total team bombing expedition.  Hard to stomach but it happens.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 26, 2005, 05:09:53 pm
So who's got the scoop on the Calvin-Albion game? From the box score it looks like Calvin won 60-47, and Lisa Winkle had a huge game with 23 points and 12 rebounds, MacDonald with 19 points. The other most telling stat I can find is FG%, 44% for Calvin and 29% Albion. What's the story?
Title: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 26, 2005, 05:39:27 pm
A curious turn of events. Last year, third-place Albion beat first-place Calvin in the MIAA tourney title game. This year, third-place Calvin beat first-place Albion.  

Last year Albion lost in its first NCAA playoff game to Wilmington, 66-62. It would be great to see the Knights make a good run this year!
Title: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 27, 2005, 05:35:26 am
Dark Knight

you want the story here it is.  Credit calvin's great defense for this win.  When you can hold ruth sventickis to 0 points when she tears hope up for 22 the week before, you know you are doing something right.  Calvin had a good lead, and the albion made a run, but then winkle caught fire and it was no turning back.  Albion played tough, but with the knights defense, there wasn't much you could do.  

To me you gotta give a lot of credit to calvin's post for playing so well.  Lisa winkle had 23 points and 12 boards, and sarah winkle had 8 boards.  Nan played well too, and all contributed to holding albion's post to little scoring inside.  

I think albion still has a good shot at getting in the tourney but with three losses to one team it may be tough.  well see tonight
Title: MIAA
Post by: d-mac on February 27, 2005, 05:32:52 pm
It is time to find out who is in... and who is out.
Whose bubble has been burst and who is wearing Cinderella's glass slippers.
It's Selection Sunday... and tonight there will be a special "Hoopsville" as the 2005 NCAA Men's and Women's Basketball Brackets are announced... LIVE on our air!
The Road to Salem and Virginia Beach officially starts tonight!


It plans to be a huge night... as 50 womens and 48 mens teams are officially invited to the dance and a chance at a national title.

Some teams already know they are going (thanks to winning their conferences) and some think they are going, but there are always surprises.

So tonight, we will break it all down. Starting at 8:30 PM EST, we will take a look at who is definitely in, who might make it, who will be disappointed, and what match-ups you might want to look forward to seeing later in the week.

Then at 10:00 PM EST... we will broadcast LIVE the Women's Selection Show so you can find out when we do... the 50 teams on the Road to Virginia Beach.

That will be followed by the Men's Selection Show at 10:30 PM EST - when 48 teams find out what their Road to Salem will be like.

After those selections... we will go over it with a fine-tooth comb and find out who we think are the surprises!

And throughout the show, we will hear from different regions with live reports and talk to coaches that have made surprising moves into the tournament.

Of course, you can listen in thank to Goucher College.
We suggest you try and use the low-bandwith signal which will require you to have Real Player and selection the 28K version of the show.
At the same time, you can listen to the Broadcastmonsters.com version, using Windows Media Player (go to the "Hoopsville" page for more information).

And you can share your opinions and questions with us, live on the air.
email - hoopsville@d3hoops.com  
AOL IM - Hoopsville2000

And for more information... check out the "Hoopsville" website (www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville)!

Again... it all starts tonight at 8:30 PM EST.
Title: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 27, 2005, 11:11:44 pm
I think the knights got a good draw and albion got a christmas present.  Calvin will host franklin on wednesday, and somehow albion gets a bye.  I don't understand that but whatever.  If someone can explain to me how a team can lose three times to one team in a year and still get placed ahead of that team in the seeding, id love to hear it.
Title: MIAA
Post by: tniem on February 28, 2005, 09:06:46 am
It has to do with the teams the Regional Rankings.  I don't think the Knights were in without the Conf. win.  They were behind Hope and Albion in the rankings all winter.  I am not saying that is the right way to do things but it certainly seems that they use those Rankings to decide everything.  Same thing on the Men's side with Albion ahead of Calvin in the rankings by a lot (although on the court they were maybe only slightly better with two close wins and one close loss).  It should get better in the next couple years with the addition of more slots but even then, they will probably use these rankings too much.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 28, 2005, 09:52:36 am
It's too bad that Hope didn't also get in. Hope, Calvin, and Albion seemed so close over the course of the year, and Calvin got by Hope only through a career performance by McDonald.

I'd guess Albion got in before Hope because Hope lost in the semifinals of the tournament, Albion in the finals. But Hope faced Calvin first only because of the MIAA's tiebreaker rules!

Does the number of teams in the tournament go up next year for the women's side also?
Title: MIAA
Post by: flavaflav on February 28, 2005, 12:32:42 pm
You are all forgetting that Albion has five wins over regionally ranked foes (Hope x2, Baldwin Wallace, Franklin, & Wash.& Jefferson) and their three D3 losses are all to regionally ranked opponents (Calvin x3).  Calvin also has 5 wins over regional opponents (Albion x3, Hope, Wheaton), but has a couple bad losses (Tri-State and Thomas More).  It is my belief that the selection committee had a tough choice between Calvin and Albion as to which would be higher rated but chose Albion based on the fact they have performed consistently better on the year.  
Dark Knight, you should not find it as a surprise to see Albion far ahead of Hope in the selection committee's eyes.  They have not had the quality wins Albion has, have losses where Albion does not (non-conference D3 - rockford) and lost both games head-to-head with Albion on the year.  It is obvious to MIAA followers that Hope, Albion, and Calvin are equals in so many ways and it is unfortunate that one of them could not get in- but Hope simply didn't perform against the teams it needed to on the year. Had Hope beaten Rockford earlier this year i believe we may have seen an unheard of three MIAA teams in the dance.  

Should be a great NCAA tourney. Calvin opens up with a winnable game against Franklin (whom Albion beat earlier this year) and Albion has a nice draw against the winner of a BW team they have already beaten and Denison.  If not for Depauw we would almost surely be seeing an MIAA in the quarters.
Title: MIAA
Post by: d-mac on March 01, 2005, 04:22:24 pm
It's time for the Big Dance... the teams are selected... the games are scheduled... and now 48 men's and 50 women's teams will take to the court this weekend with the same goal... a national title.
But who will win? The tournament previews are tonight on "Hoopsville"!!!


Sunday night we were live when the teams were selected and we found out who was in and out. The women's bracket was done relatively well... the men's bracket seems to be a bit of a disappointment.

But now we are looking ahead at the big games this weekend. From now on its win or go home.

One of those men's teams that is one of the hottest in the nation is #17 Gustavus Adulphus... who is riding an 18-game winning streak into the NCAA Tournament. The Gusties now will take on Lawrence on Thursday and could face the defending National Champs, UW-Stevens Point on Saturday. So, what might Mark Hanson be thinking. We will hear from him tonight and how his team has recovered from their 4-5 start to the season.

Now... the NCAA doesn't seed the Men's and Women's Brackets... but we will!
Tonight, live on the air, we will seed the men's and women's brackets according to how we see it and how we think the NCAA was thinking. So you can get an idea of who the NCAA thinks are the top teams and who might be hosting games in the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 (Regionals).

And there are new #1 teams in both the Men's and Women's Top-25 this week... but barely. UW-Stevens Point is just points ahead of Amherst on the men's side. And on the women's, it is just a point between Scranton and Bowdoin.

We will breakdown the final regular season Top-25 and try and figure out what the voters were thinking. Along with pointing out how not all of the Top-25 made the tournament.

And of course, we will have live regional reports from around the nation and take your questions and comments live on the air.

So come join us online and LIVE from 8PM - 10PM Eastern!

"Hoopsville": only place where you can listen or chat about Division III Basketball in the nation.

Go to the "Hoopsville" page for information on how you can listen in and chat with us live!
Title: MIAA
Post by: wizard on March 01, 2005, 08:19:03 pm
Albion still ranked ahead of Calvin.  Unbelievable when you consider that of Albion's 4 losses, three of them were to Calvin.  They weren't able to beat Calvin all year.

Go Knights!
Title: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 02, 2005, 08:30:25 pm
Final from the Calvin Fieldhouse
Calvin 74
Franklin 60

The Knights play Saturday at DePauw.
Title: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on March 02, 2005, 08:56:09 pm
An interesting game at the fieldhouse tonight.  I thought the knights could have played better than they did and it hurt to have lisa winkle out for a majority of the first half with foul trouble.  But calvin was able to pull away in the end.  Kudos to Lisa winkle on a strong game.  Kristen mcdonald played well again.  But I thought the game ball should go to Lisa Nanninga.  She played great all game on some tough posts inside and then added 10 points and had 10 rebounds to go with it.  Also props have to go out to Rita Owinga for her great defense on Lindsey Roberson.  Roberson has to be one of the best pure shooters in D3 women's basketball.  I'll compare her to Andy Draayer from the calvin guys team.  She still scored 20 points but I think we played good defense on her.

Bring on Depauw!!!  Go Knights!!
Title: MIAA
Post by: wizard on March 02, 2005, 10:03:43 pm
2 good teams.
3 lousy officials.
Almost makes me appreciate the officals we see on the men's circuit.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 02, 2005, 10:29:13 pm
I didn't realize it until today, but Massey does ratings for Women's basketball too: http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw#Div III

Calvin is #4, just like on the Men's side. Hope is #11, Albion is #18.

Massey predicted that Calvin would beat Franklin by 13 -- and they won by 14. The prediction for the game at DePauw is exactly even.
Title: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on March 02, 2005, 10:31:52 pm
wiz- I think it would be better to say 2 good teams and two lousy officials with one good one.  The female official at least called a consistant, following the rules game.  She had only one questionable call on mcdonald, the guys though were terrible.  The white haired guy was all over the place.  but oh well, a W is a W.
Title: MIAA
Post by: wizard on March 03, 2005, 07:53:36 am
The woman was no better.  In fact, much worse.  She didn't know when to call a jump ball rather than a foul or a block rather than a charge.  She set gender equity back about 20 years in just a 40 minute span.
Title: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 03, 2005, 10:06:40 am
It has been my experience that in general the refs on the women's side are very inconsistent with charges/blocks and jump balls.  Most of the time jump balls should be fouls or are called way too fast when someone really had full possession.
Title: MIAA
Post by: wizard on March 03, 2005, 03:11:22 pm
All I know is they make Todd Geerlings look good, and that's bad.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Bob Mackenzie on March 03, 2005, 04:23:39 pm
I really think they mess up about as many calls as the men's refs.  They certainly had a few stinkers last night.  But the big difference is with the men's game being played at much greater speed, much more going on in the air, and much more athleticism, the bad calls often aren't nearly as obvious.
Title: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on March 07, 2005, 11:30:50 am
WOW!!! what a game on Saturday.  I made it down for the calvin womens game in Greencastle IN v DePauw.  The knights started the game with a 13-0 run and we up that amount at half.  To no ones surprise im sure though depauw made a great come back but seemed to run out of gas with about 3 minutes to go.  Calvin went on a 12-0 run to end the game.  And now the lady knights get to host the sectionals.  An amazing season continues, but can the knights beat albion four times in one season??  We'll find out. GO KNIGHTS
Title: MIAA
Post by: Christopher Leverett on March 07, 2005, 11:41:58 pm
Here's hoping that the 4th time is the charm Friday night. Winkle and McDonald are two outstanding players. McDonald should have made the DIII hoops team of the week for her performances in the MIAA tourney. I just don't think Albion played up to their capabilities on that given Saturday. They looked like a totally different team vs. Dension. Also last time Sventickas took the o-fer and I don't think that will happen again:-)

GO BRITS
Title: MIAA
Post by: MJA on March 08, 2005, 07:41:25 am
nice article.....  
http://www.freep.com/sports/college/miaa8e_20050308.htm
Title: MIAA
Post by: d-mac on March 08, 2005, 04:50:04 pm
Basketball in Division III at this time of year... is so SWEET!!!
32 teams still have a chance at two national titles... and many teams weren't expected to get this far.
Tonight, a preview of this weekend's Sweet 16 action and preparations for the Final Four... on "Hoopsville"!!!


Wooster, Wittenburg, and Illinois Wesleyan are out of the men's bracket!
So, who in the world is still left in the Men's Road to Salem?
Well... UW-Stevens Point, Amherst, and St. John Fisher.

Trinity (TX) is still alive. Most thought they would be playing IWU on Friday night, instead they face Hanover. Tonight, we will chat with Coach Pat Cunningham about his Tigers. Their road to the Final Four is going to be a tough one.

Then there is John Carrol, who defeated Wittenburg to earn their Sweet 16 berth. Coach Mike Moran seems to have his Blue Streaks team clicking on all the right cylinders, having won the OAC before their run in the NCAA's. We will chat with Coach Moran about his upcoming game against Albion... who got by on what some say is a questionable win over Wooster.

On the women's side, not too many upsets, even though DePauw and Buena Vista were eliminated on their Road to Virginia Beach.

Wesleyan continues to surprise as they took out Staten Island to earn their Sweet 16 game against Springfield. Coach Kate Mullen will join us live on the air to talk about how this season's finish isn't what the Cardinals planned on... and how they're looking to keep dancing.

George Fox will be earning a lot of frequent flyer miles this weekend. Coach Scott Rueck has his Bruins playing very good basketball and will take on St. Benedict, who upset Buena Vista. But how are the Bruins going to handle flying across the entire length of the nation for the game(s)... we will ask Coach Rueck.

And Salem is getting ready for their tenth Men's Final Four. ODAC Commissioner Brad Bankston will join us live on the air to let us know how the preparations are going. How you can get tickets! And what else you can expect and should do while in the great city of Salem (and Roanoke), Virginia.

Oh... and of course we will chat with our regional reporters - Gordon Mann will actually join us in studio. And we will certainly take your questions and comments on the air and try and cover a very busy week of basketball.

So come join us online and LIVE from 8PM - 10PM Eastern!

"Hoopsville": only place where you can listen or chat about Division III Basketball in the nation.

Check out the "Hoopsville" page for information on how you can listen... and be a part of the show.
Title: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on March 11, 2005, 10:17:27 pm
Congrats to the Knights for knocking off Albion for a fourth time and advancing to the elite 8!
Title: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 11, 2005, 10:24:58 pm
The knights pulled out a 64-56 win against Albion this evening, the fourth knight victory over the Britons this season. The Brits lost only one other game all year.

The knights got off to a fast start, led by 8 at the half, and increased the lead to 10 or 12 early in the second half. After that point, the Britons in a gritty performance inched back into the game, getting their first tie of the game with a couple of minutes left.  

The knights pulled it out with clutch free-throw shooting at the end of the game.  

Congratulations to the Britons on a great season, and congrats to the Knights on reaching the elite 8, after not being ranked almost the entire season!

It was a good crowd. The bottom-level bleachers were pretty well full and the staff had to open one of the top-level bleachers for excess fans.

The knights play Milliken tomorrow night at 7:00. Massey's latest rating has Milliken at #2 and Calvin at #3, so it should be a great game!
Title: MIAA
Post by: wizard on March 19, 2005, 09:14:29 pm
Milliken, the only team to defeat the Knights in their tournament run just won the national championship.  So, hold your heads high, Calvin.  Congratulations on a very remarkable season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 31, 2005, 04:46:20 pm
Congrats to the Hope women on their preseason ranking of 15th.  The upcoming MIAA/CCIW tournament at Calvin should be great, with Wheaton (11th), Hope (15th), Calvin (received some votes), and Carthage.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on November 01, 2005, 02:21:53 pm
I am just courious if anyone can tell me what happened to Ruth Sventickas from albion.  i've been looking at their roster online and she isn't there.  It's kind of interesting if they loss one of their first team miaa players after her sophemore year. 
Calvin is looking good.  I'm excited for another year.  Should be close at the top.  Here's to a good season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 01, 2005, 03:41:31 pm
k-rider - I agree about Sventickas being a big loss for Albion.  She pretty much carried the team for while when Casky was hurt last year.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on November 01, 2005, 07:07:01 pm
FDF- do you know where she went, or what happened to her?  I was told that if anyone would know other than the albion faithful that it would be the hope faithful, because everyone I talk to over here doesn't have a clue.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dropkick11 on November 02, 2005, 09:41:02 am
Without Sventickas, what does Albion have..who will be there go to players.....and will it change there style...Is there going to be a repeat of their NCAA appearance last year? 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 03, 2005, 01:30:57 pm
I have no idea what happened to Sventikas - but would love to find out
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 05, 2005, 07:01:42 am
2005-06 MIAA Pre-Season
Coaches' Women's Basketball Poll

1. Hope ( 8 ) 8
2. Albion 19
3. Calvin 21
4. Alma (1) 32
5. Olivet 37
6. Tri-State 47
7. Saint Mary's 51
8. Kalmazoo 53
9. Adrian 56
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on November 07, 2005, 01:38:43 am
found out sventicas just decided not to play this year.  She is still at albion, just not playing.  In my evaluation of their team, they don't have  much other than guard jaime fornetti, and she isn't a huge threat.  I think Alma will be tougher than Albion this year, but I think it is going to come down to Hope v Calvin once again.  Maybe its too early for that prediction, but I just think thats how its going to be.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 09, 2005, 08:26:03 am
The annual Meet the Dutch is on Friday at the new DeVos arena.  First time for us to see the teams and the new arena.  Doors open at 5:30 - Womens team at 6, Men at 7
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on November 10, 2005, 07:43:48 pm
I hear Ruthie is doing an internship so she decided not to play.  I heard this from one of the girls that played on Albion's JV roster last year.  I think the britons will still be able to do fairly well.   And now with the field expanding, its possible there could be three teams out of the MIAA in the NCAA tournament!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: PCCoach on November 12, 2005, 08:47:05 pm
 ;D
What's going on at K?  Anyone have any info on the new coach or how they are going to be?  I say middle of the pack for the K women...new and positive sometimes can be good for at least 2-3 wins.  Go Lady Hornets!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 18, 2005, 08:17:44 am
From the coach's preview, it sounds as though Calvin has one of its most inexperienced teams ever, and one of its most talented. Coach Ross is hoping for them to be playing well by the time the MIAA (and NCAA) tournament rolls around.

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/preview/winter.htm#wbasket

In their scrimmage with Grand Valley (which was a game from Grand Valley's perspective), 6'1" Marcia Harris was a freshman starter and the knights' second-leading scorer, with 10 of the knights' 48 points.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: PCCoach on November 21, 2005, 12:33:31 pm
 ???....nobody answered my question about K, but looks like they did on their own.  That was a tough UWRFalls team who quite frankly burried Finlandia friday night.  2-0 for the Lady Hornets!  Surprisingly, they did not have a problem scoring; in fact on friday night 6 players were in double digits (2 had double doubles); solid balance and d; also, they outrebounded one of the teams I think.  Way to go K.  Somethin brewin perhaps?  W'll see.....I think the league games, particularly the first round will be a tell tell sign.  How did everyone else do?...any special reports out there?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 21, 2005, 09:16:10 pm
Hope looked absolutely dominant in their game over Edgewood - a team picked to win their conference and get an NCAA bid this year.  I predict we will see both Hope teams in the tournament this year
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on November 22, 2005, 04:30:19 am
I think Albion should be a force to be reckoned with.  They are now 2-0....and will be playing @ John Carroll Tuesday, and on Saturday Home against Goshen.  We'll see if they will continue to click.  They lost some key players from last year, but I am sure they will show their resiliency throughout the season.
Title: Hope's Schedule
Post by: tniem on November 22, 2005, 06:44:09 pm
In the past we have talked alot (especially in the men's forum but also in this one) about Hope's scheduling decisions.  I finally looked at the full schedule this year.  It appears that Morehouse was able to put together a tough test during the season this year that would help with the tournament seeding and positioning (if they get to that point).

- 6 out of 9 non-conference are in region.
- Wheaton is in the preseason top-25 (11th).
- 2 (Wilmington and Franklin) are also receiving votes. 
- 6 are neutral court games

All in all, it appears to be a bit more difficult and tournament number ready than the ones that I have seen in the past.  If I get a chance I will look at Calvin's and Albion's as well.  Would be interested to see if GVW was able to create a strong schedule as well with the opening of the fieldhouse.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on December 01, 2005, 07:24:44 pm
who is GVW?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 01, 2005, 10:17:02 pm
Glenn Van Wieren - mens BB coach at Hope
Title: 2005-2006 MIAA
Post by: Flea on December 04, 2005, 01:19:00 pm
Do the Calvin women move into the NCAA D3 top-20?
They beat Wheaton, the #7 team in the NCAA D3, the day after Wheaton beat Hope, the #11 team.

With #24 Albion (6-0) waiting in the wings.

The December 7 Dutch v. Albion match-up should do some sorting on the women's side.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 05, 2005, 07:21:21 am
The Knights definitely ought to get some lovin' from the pollsters after defeating Wheaton, especially since they finished in the elite 8 last year, and coach Ross suggested that this year's team is one of the most talented ever.

True, they're very young, with only one junior and one senior on the team, but they showed they are getting it together in the Wheaton victory. The Thunder's terrific pressure defense forced 30 turnovers, but they forced 36 against #11 Hope the previous day. However, they couldn't sufficiently contain Calvin's post game, with pre-season All-American Lisa Winkle, future All-American Marcia Harris, and sis Sarah Winkle, who's just about as good as the other two but isn't called upon to score as much.

But the most impressive part is that the defense is apparently also getting its act together, holding Wheaton to 45 points, which is 22 less than their season average.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: PCCoach on December 05, 2005, 10:34:44 am
BIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG WEEK in the MIAA!!
Wed's schedule:
Adrian at Saint Mary's, 7:30 p.m.
Calvin at Kalamazoo, 8 p.m.
Hope at Albion, 7:30 p.m.
Alma at Aquinas, 7 p.m.

Saturday's Schedule:
Kalamazoo at Adrian, 3 p.m.
Saint Mary's at Alma, 3 p.m.
Tri-State at Hope, 5 p.m.
Spring Arbor at Olivet, 1 p.m.


KZOO gets its frist test in MIAA action under coach TSJ.  Hope and Albion have a showdown...Adrian and St. M's; then on Sat another test for the Lady Hornets.  Will be interesting to see what happens!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 06, 2005, 03:23:55 pm
WOW!!! 3 MIAA teams in the top 25 - Hope at 16, Albion at 21, and Calvin at 24.   Add to that 2 mens teams in the top 10, and the league is looking pretty great!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 06, 2005, 04:07:25 pm
WOW!!! 3 MIAA teams in the top 25 - Hope at 16, Albion at 21, and Calvin at 24.

Nice!

There are still lots of questions about the teams in the league, though. Albion is 6-0, but hasn't played any really tough teams. Hope has some lopsided wins and a 4-1 record, but the four victories are against weak teams, with a combined record of 4-16. Wednesday's Hope at Albion game will indeed be a big one. A solid victory by either team could drop the other one out of the top 25.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on December 07, 2005, 09:52:16 pm
Hope beats Albion in OT 82-78
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 07, 2005, 09:56:50 pm
Not only is this the first time Hope has beaten Albion since Dec of 2003, Albion was up by 18 in the 1st - lead by 16 at the half - as much as 18 in the second. Hope got it down to 3 with 7 or so minutes left, then Albion got it back to 10.  Bria Ebels banks in a 3 to put it into OT.  Hope outscored Albion 6-2 in OT for the win.   Huge boost for the Dutch, and proof that both teams belong in the top 25.
Title: 12/07/05 MIAA scores
Post by: Flea on December 07, 2005, 11:45:47 pm
Hope 82 over Albion 78 (OT)
Calvin 62 over Kalamazoo 39
St. Mary's 67 over Adrian 50
Aquinas 60 over Alma 45 (non-conference)

MIAA women's standings 12/07/05

Olivet 1-0
Hope 2-0
Calvin 2-0
Albion 1-1
St. Mary's 1-1
Kalamazoo 0-1
Alma 0-1
Tri-State 0-1
Adrian 0-2
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on December 08, 2005, 12:58:09 pm
Anyone happen to know why the women get into conference play before the men?  More tournaments on the mens side?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 08, 2005, 01:40:33 pm
I asked that question of Tom Renner last year and his response was that it's due to a larger number of teams (1 more).  The difficulty of scheduling gym use along with the men, made it necessary to start the league games early.

You would think that 1 more team wouldn't cause such havoc, but since that team has no mens team (St. Mary's - an all girl school) it really does cause problems - if you keep the schedule to 2 games per week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 08, 2005, 04:33:28 pm
I listened to the last part of the Albion-Hope game on the net. Very exciting! Both teams sounded very determined. I do think that the MIAA has three deserving teams in the top 25, and it's gonig to be quite a battle.
Title: Calvin ranking
Post by: Flea on December 08, 2005, 08:37:49 pm
Why isn't Calvin higher than #24 after beating then #7, now #11 Wheaton (IL)?

Do any MIAA teams play any other top-25 teams this regular season?
Title: Re: Calvin ranking
Post by: MIdoubleA on December 09, 2005, 01:32:01 pm
Why isn't Calvin higher than #24 after beating then #7, now #11 Wheaton (IL)?

The truth is that nobody truly understands the method or the madness that is d3hoops ratings. At best, it gives us somewhat of an idea of who is where, but nobody really knows for sure.
Title: Re: Calvin ranking
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 09, 2005, 02:02:05 pm
Why isn't Calvin higher than #24 after beating then #7, now #11 Wheaton (IL)?

The truth is that nobody truly understands the method or the madness that is d3hoops ratings. At best, it gives us somewhat of an idea of who is where, but nobody really knows for sure.

Especially this early in the season
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on December 14, 2005, 12:59:55 pm
recent poll rankings:

#14   . . . Hope   . . . 5-1

#19 . . . Calvin . . . 6-1   

#23   . . .    Albion . . . 6-1
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 17, 2005, 05:38:57 pm
Calvin defeated a weak Rochester (MI) team 71-32. The knights pushed it in to the post for the first part of the game and then seemed to work more on the perimeter game. They hit several threes, which they haven't been doing much so far this season.

Albion (6-2) lost to Spring Arbor (2-13) by 11 points -- ouch! A second straight loss, this time to a weak team. That can't be good for the rankings. The overtime loss to Hope must have them on their heels.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on December 22, 2005, 09:24:54 am
Ironically . . . I can see the Lady Brits taking two of the four Hope / Calvin games but losing two more MIAA games in the bottom of the league.  Hope seems to have the upper hand this year with Calvin's inexperience resulting in dropping a few to the mid-MIAA teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on December 22, 2005, 01:31:43 pm
So how about 3 games into the conference season and Olivet is undefeated and Albion has 2 league losses - I doubt anyone predicted that
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on January 02, 2006, 11:35:02 am
So how about 3 games into the conference season and Olivet is undefeated and Albion has 2 league losses - I doubt anyone predicted that
It's weird because Albion beat some good teams in preseason competition - John Carroll and Anderson are well above .500 (Albion beat Anderson by 34).  But then again, Olivet only lost in the preseason to some tough competition.  Perhaps they will be up with Calvin and Hope this year and threaten to win the league...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 05, 2006, 09:26:11 pm
In a big game tonight with Calvin playing at Albion, Calvin won 51-50. Calvin led by 9 with 7 minutes left, but Albion went on an 11-1 run and made it a close finish.

Lisa Winkle had a huge game, with 15 points and 14 rebounds, 8 of them offensive, playing the last 15 minutes of the game with four fouls. In fact, Peuler, Harris, Winkle, and Winkle all ended up with four fouls while Marcuz fouled out for the Britons.

The knights benefitted from a 40-33 rebound advantage, but shooting 2 for 20 treys didn't help their cause any. But another game holding an opponent to their lowest point total of the season is good.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flea on January 06, 2006, 02:04:59 am
What was Albion thinking . . . sinking a last second two-pointer when down by three to end the game?

Did the shooter have her toe on the trey-line or was she clueless.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 06, 2006, 09:18:27 am
See the play-by-play at http://www.albion.edu/sports/wbasketball/56wbkstats/w105caab.htm#GAME.PLY.

A Briton missed a three-pointer and another, Megan Garvey, got the rebound with less than a second showing on the game clock. Enough time for a layup but not for a pass out to a three-point shooter.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flea on January 07, 2006, 11:18:18 am
After a few MIAA games . . .

1.) Who are the top three or four newcomers in the league?

2.) Who is the top newcomer in the MIAA?


Adrian:
12   Kelley Hutchins . . . . . 5-04
33   Jenny Carlson  . . . . . . 6-00   
42   Michelle Zwolinski . . . . 5-09   
44   Holly Pellegrin  . . . . . . 5-10
50   Emily Czaplicki . . . . . . 5-10

Albion:
4     Autumn Charnley . . . . . . 5-05   
11   Stephani Croad . . . . . . . . 5-10
22   Megan Seely . . . . . . . . . . 5-05
24   Lia Cronenwett . . . . . . . . 6-00
34   Stacey Smith . . . . . . . . . 5-06

Alma:
10   Amy Seidl . . . . . . . . . . . 5-05   
12   Heather Keenan . . . . . . 5-07   
14   Jenny Falkenberg . . . . . 5-06   
30   Margaret Powers . . . . . . 5-06

Calvin:
11/14    Kristi Brummel . . . . . . 5-09
15/50    Sarah Partridge . . . . . 5-09
24         Jennifer DeFauw . . . . 5-11
32         Kelly Trewhella . . . . . . 5-08
34        Marcia Harris . . . . . . . . 6-01
44        Emily Schrotenboer . . . 6-00

Hope:
5    Kaitlyn Kopke . . . . 5-07
34    Courtney Knox . . . 6-02
44    Brieann Bryant . . . 5-11
45    Kate Reincke . . . . . 5-11

Kalamazoo:
12   Rachel Eddy . . . . . 5-08
24   Carmen Dorris . . . 5-07
32   Nicki White . . . . . . 6-00

Olivet:
no freshmen on roster

St. Mary's:
44    Nicole Beier . . . . . . 6-02
12    Meghan Conaty . . . 5-02
30    Calli Davison . . . . . 5-05
5      Emily Light . . . . . . . 5-06
42    Erin Newsom . . . . . 6-00
14    Katie Rashid . . . . . . 5-06
50    Ali  Bender . . . . . . . 5-09

Tri-State:
2    Kara Graham . . . 5-03
3    Rachel Grove . . . 5-06
42  Jamie Hiser . . . . 5-09

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 07, 2006, 05:22:42 pm
Top freshman per-game statistics:

Scoring:
  Marcia Harris (Calvin) 13.5
  Erin Newsom (SMC)     9.2

Rebounds:
  Erin Newsom (SMC)    5.9
  Marcia Harris (Calvin)  5.6

Field Goal %
  Marcia Harris (Calvin)  .509
  Erin Newsom (SMC)     .484

Assists:
  Megan Seely (Albion)  3.15
  Marcia Harris (Calvin)  2.82

Steals:
  Megan Seely (Albion)  1.38
  Kara Graham (TSU)    1.38

3-Pt %
  Megan Seely (Albion)    .419
  Kelly Trewhella (Calvin) .306

Blocks
  Jenny Carlson (Adrian) 1.33
  Erin Newsom (SMC)     1.08

Assist/Turnover ratio
  Megan Seely (Albion)    1.71

Looks like Marcia Harris and Erin Newsom stand out as inside players and Megan Seely as a guard.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flea on January 07, 2006, 09:19:34 pm
January 07, 2006

Albion 78 defeats Tri-State 56

Alma 75 defeats Kalamazoo 55

Calvin 67 defeats Saint Mary's 62

Olivet 74 defeats Adrian 50
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on January 07, 2006, 09:26:04 pm
Looks like Marcia Harris and Erin Newsom stand out as inside players and Megan Seely as a guard.

head-to-head . . .

## Player                   FG FGA FG FGA FT FTA OF DE TOT PF  TP    A TO BLK S MIN
34 Marcia Harris....... *  8   10   0  0     7  10   0   2   2    0   23    3   4   1   4   32
42 Erin Newsom....... *  1    5    0  0     2   2    1   5   6    5    4    0   4   0   1   20

BTW. excellent post Dark Knight
Title: MIAA pick 'em
Post by: Flea on January 15, 2006, 08:11:59 pm
Quote from: MeMyself on January 15, 2005, 05:19:26 pm
Quote
Stephanie Smith broke, not only Olivet's school three point record, but the MIAA all time record, for most three's in a game. Stephanie sank 9 of 16 from behind the arc and was 11-18 in game. She helped Olivet beat Alma by scoring a career high 35 points

With this kind of play Calvin will be in trouble this week.  My picks for Wednesday's games:

January 18

Olivet over Calvin
Hope over Alma
Tri-State over Kalamazoo
Albion over Saint Mary's

home

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on January 16, 2006, 06:47:59 pm
Good article today in the Holland Sentinel about the lack of attendance at Hope Womens games. I can't link it because it requires a registered user, but go to www.thehollandsentinel.net and make a free account if you really want.

Is this the same for all of womens basketball?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 21, 2006, 11:18:04 pm
Tommorrows Sentinel article will be about the regular season record crowd of 1527 at DeVos to watch the ladies ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on January 24, 2006, 10:56:57 am
Good article today in the Holland Sentinel about the lack of attendance at Hope Womens games. I can't link it because it requires a registered user, but go to www.thehollandsentinel.net and make a free account if you really want.

Is this the same for all of womens basketball?

I reallly didn't find it that interesting of an article.  It is like they finally discovered that more people go to the men's game than the women's.  It is silly.  Compare to last year:

2005-062004-05
3154 opening night800  v. Calvin
1451 w/ men400 
825  425 
605  425 
505  350 
1355 w/ men250 
1525 alone v. Albion650 
400 
700 
75 
1100 season finale for champ.
350 
900  MIAA semis
Note: this isn't the best table.  Rows do not relate.  It is kind of just two lists side by side to compare.

As you can see, the numbers are up this year, even if you do not include the men's games.  I believe those double headers have built some extra interest (as have the new stadium).  Obviously, with a larger gym the crowds do not look as big.  But if you ignored the few seats in the Dow, you would have to admit there were not large crowds for a team that is always nationally ranked.

Actually, if you wanted to draw larger crowds in Holland you would charge for the games or at least sell season tickets.  Imagine if people had to buy season tickets for the women to be able to buy tickets for the men's games.  I guarantee you that if those older Dutch people had to own the tickets, they would be at the games.  Guaranteed.


And how it is at other schools, well, how quiet is this board v. the men's.  You have your answer.  And if you need more proof, here is the attendance averages men's v. women's for the league:

TeamWomen AvgMen Avg
Adrian157 475
Albion176 401
Alma147 238
Calvin306 1308
Hope1346 2895
Kalamazoo141 418
Olivet240 551
Saint Mary's106
Tri State71 114

As you can see, every school has more at the men's games, nearly double.  And all schools men's teams would do better with the Hope women's average attendance (of course that does not include the boost that Calvin will get for the Hope game or the bonus Hope gets on the women's side from double headers).  But I think the point is simple - Hope/Holland does a fairly good job of supporting the women.  People in general just are not as interested in their games. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on January 25, 2006, 09:53:58 pm
Olivet fell behind by 12 at halftime, before rallying to win by 4 in overtime.

Key performer of the night:  Olivet's Audrey Graham scored a career high 31 points in a Comet win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 01, 2006, 05:56:12 am
The discussion board for men's basketball is a lot more interactive than this one.  I have checked now for the past few days, and still no one has to decided to have some worthwhile discussion.  All I know is Hope seems like it is going to run away with the conference this year.  Calvin is doing well, dont get me wrong, but Hope has been simply dominant.  However, I feel that both Calvin and Hope should both be headed to the NCAA Tournament.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on February 02, 2006, 12:26:48 am
What has happened to Albion?  I saw them as a hard-nose team that would play physical against the Knights and Dutch. 
Title: Hope v. Adrian
Post by: tniem on February 02, 2006, 10:37:50 am
Hope's 103-67 victory over Adrian last night was the first 100 point game in the MIAA this season.  The last time 100 points scored was last February when Tri-State beat Olivet 100-89. 

Meanwhile on the Men's side there has only been two 100 point games, Hope beating Andrews (103-46) and Alma beating Marygrove (103-79).  Something in the water with all of the 103 point games?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 02, 2006, 10:13:28 pm
Hope has the conference basically wrapped up.  I can see the Hope women's team hoisting the hardware come March.  Calvin has also been doing really well this season, but don't seem to be able to compete with the Flying Dutchmen.  I know there is a small portion of the season still remaining, but I say just give the MIAA Championship banner to Hope.  This year there hasnt been a single team that has been able to compete with them.  Though Calvin will probably end up getting a bid to the NCAA Tournament, but the favorite is Hope.  They are on a long winning streak, I dont see them getting another Loss.  This has to be one of the best Hope teams ever!  If only more of the Dutchies would go support their women's team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 02, 2006, 10:19:20 pm
Albion, just basically fell apart this year.  The women's team looked to be heading to a 3rd NCAA Tournament, but that doesnt look to be the case. Coach Belkowski is basically building towards the future.  After losing several key players from last year, the team started out well and has just folded since the close losses against Hope, a come from behind victory for Hope in which they were down 20, and a one point loss against Calvin.  Since then they have been reeling down hill.  I was thinking a 20 win season was very much a possibility, now that basically has faded.  The only way the women can make a 3rd NCAA Tourney would be to win the MIAA Tournament.  I think the remaining games on their schedule look to be winnable games, and they should end the regular season on a 4 game winning streak heading into the MIAA Tourney, however, nothing has gone the way they would have hoped for. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 03, 2006, 09:04:48 am
It was quite an exciting game between Albion and Calvin last Wednesday. With tough defense, Albion held Calvin scoreless for the first several minutes and went up 10-0. The Britons packed the paint and the knights had difficulty getting the ball inside. Add to that a dry spell from behind the arc for the knights and you see the difficulty.

In the first game between Calvin and Albion, Calvin won 51-50, surviving a 2-of-20 trey shooting night. That game must have looked like the first half of this game. At times the knights seemed so entirely open on the three-point line that they didn't dare take the shot.

In the second half, the knights were more successful getting the ball inside to Harris or Winkle, who could then score, draw a foul, or generally get the offense flowing better.

That #3 Briton (Fornetti) is speedy. Only Peuler could reliably stop her from dribble penetration. Peuler had a nice game all around.

The knights' 8 blocks and other alters made a big difference in the game. The Britons shot 50% from behind the arc but only 34% of 2-point attempts.

The knights ended up shooting 6/21 treys -- not as good as the last four games, but enough to win. In those four games they'd hit 40% of their attempts, almost double rate of earlier in the season.
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flea on February 03, 2006, 11:29:33 am
Calvin has also been doing really well this season, but don't seem to be able to compete with the Flying Dutchmen.

I agree.  Hope's post players pound and pound, and Calvin does not have the depth to stay with them.  If Harris or the battle-hardened Winkle get in foul trouble there is not much muscle coming off Calvin's bench.

Back on the 14th the Wood was tough, tough, tough off the bench . . . and that was at Knollcrest.  Seems as though if either team can shoot 40-45% from the field they'll win the rematch at DeVos on the 11th.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 04, 2006, 12:30:17 am
Do any of you know who and when was the last MIAA Team crowned National Champions in Women's Basketball?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 04, 2006, 03:56:35 pm
Alma, 1992
http://www.d3hoops.com/archives/wncaa92.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 04, 2006, 05:08:50 pm
Nice for the MIAA, as Hope won it 2 years earlier.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on February 05, 2006, 02:58:04 pm
Do any of you know who and when was the last MIAA Team crowned National Champions in Women's Basketball?

MIAA in the NCAA history:

<http://www.miaa.org/wbb/wbbncaa.html>
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on February 07, 2006, 01:38:06 pm
It was nice on Saturday to have a women's game through the web/radio hook up.  Often with the men and women playing at the same time, they only broadcast the men's game.  Brian has the team playing very well.

For those that have seen them play this year, has Linda Ebbels developed into the inside presence that could take the team over the top (like Amanda Kerkstra did in the early 2000s)?  Is the team complete from the inside and outside?
Title: Hope/Rochester
Post by: tniem on February 07, 2006, 01:43:48 pm
Having listened to the Rochester game Saturday, I couldn't help but feel that I have seen the Dutch win against them a lot.  So I did a bit of digging and found that Hope and Rochester have played every year since 1998-99.  Only once (the 04-05 season) was that game outide of Holland.  Here are the results:

Season  Margin of Victory
1998-99  50
1999-00  46
2000-01  31
2001-02  63
2002-03  58
2003-04  39
2004-05  28
2005-06  48

Any way, not the strongest competition but lately it appears that Hope has been playing them in the later half of the season during one of the MIAA byes.  Probably a smart place to put this game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 10, 2006, 09:20:57 am
Rochester is a rather weak team.  To even have Rochester in the same breath as Hope college is not right.  Rochester is one of the worst teams in the country, and they arent even in DIII!  This is Rochester College we're talking about in Rochester, Michigan, not Rochester (NY).  We all know Hope is dominating everyone.  Hope's women's team is remarkable on every facet of the game.  They are scoring at will, and also playing some intense defense, when they need it the most.  They arent out of any game.  Think back to the Albion game, when they faced a 2nd half deficit.  They are a resilient team.  I don't see any team stopping them.  I think its a banner year for Hope....National Champions in Springfield, MA!  Hope students really have been spoiled by the performances by the both basketball squads.  If only they would show some more support for their women's team ;D   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 11, 2006, 08:06:35 am
Any thoughts on the other Hope/Calvin game?

Last time Hope won by 10, but Lisa Winkle got in early foul trouble and eventually fouled out. With reduced inside defenseon the part of the knights, Ellen Wood had a breakout game for Hope.

The knights scored only a pair of treys, but they've been getting more lately, so there may be less reliance on the post game at this point in the season.

If the knights can even up the rebounds and stay out of foul trouble, I think it'll be a good game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 11, 2006, 03:40:32 pm
As I would have thought Hope is cruising by Calvin 35-17 with 3:10 left in the 1st Half!  Ellen Wood with a game high 13 points
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 11, 2006, 03:53:20 pm
Halftime from Holland, Michigan  39 Hope College 28 Calvin College

Key Performers of the Half:

Hope-Ellen Wood with a game high 17 points

Calvin-Lisa Winkle 11 points

Calvin closes the half on a 16-5 run (last 5 mins).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 12, 2006, 05:03:10 pm
Yesterday's result from the Hope/Calvin game, just shows how dominant the Dutchies have been.  A regular season championship, and soon to be a conference tournament championship.  Nothing is stopping this women's team this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on February 14, 2006, 12:07:05 pm
Yesterday's result from the Hope/Calvin game, just shows how dominant the Dutchies have been.  A regular season championship, and soon to be a conference tournament championship.  Nothing is stopping this women's team this year.

*knocks on wood*

I hope you are right. It's about time one of the two bball teams does something in the post-season. I'd be just as happy for the women as I would be for the men. I think their season has been overlooked this year due to the men's transfers and what not.

By the way, when was the last time the mens and womens team had a combined record of 42-3?!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 14, 2006, 10:15:38 pm
I know it is very impressive.....the only time I can think of anything remotely close to that, was DI Uconn men's and women's teams winning national championships in the same year, and I am sure they had records that were comparable, but not quite this good.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 15, 2006, 02:03:46 pm
Mo has his team playing well, but their post season play under his tutelage has not produced what we Hope fans have desired. Is this the best Hope woman's team since '90? I would have to say they are as deep or deeper, but we all know that to win a national championship takes a little luck as well as anything else.

Are both final 4's played the same weekend? What a shame it would be if both the men and women were playing the same weekend 600 miles apart. But I guess that neither team will complain too much if that happens!  ;D

Good luck men and women!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on February 15, 2006, 02:30:03 pm
I heard yesterday that the JV team is playing the alumni before the varsity play at 3pm.  Confirmed on the hope website, start time of 1pm.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 17, 2006, 12:15:59 am
Is this the best Hope woman's team since '90? I would have to say they are as deep or deeper, but we all know that to win a national championship takes a little luck as well as anything else.


It didn't hurt that the 90 team never had to leave Holland.

As little women's ball as I've watched I'd say Hope's had several teams as good or better than the 90 team.  Just like the men, the GreatLakes Reagion is very strong.  They've run into some good teams in the tournament........and the MIAA doesn't help them much.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 17, 2006, 04:52:38 pm
Heard an amazing stat after the last game.  The seniors on this years Flying Dutch team are currently 100-10 in their careers!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 18, 2006, 10:19:04 pm
That is a great stat.  Coach Morehouse has done a heck of a job at Hope College.  His teams just keep getting better and better.  This year Hope will probably be bringing a championship back to Holland.  I really want to know what Hope's weaknesses are, if any.  They are superb.  They play the game how it should be played.  They execute well on offense, and they play some stifling defense which throws their opponents off their game.  What a great accomplishment for the women to win the regular season championship, with a perfect record in conference play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on February 21, 2006, 01:59:36 pm
Does anyone have news on Jordyn Boles injury from Saturday's game?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on February 21, 2006, 02:10:09 pm
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/022106/localsports_20060221042.shtml

...answered my own question
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 08:19:07 pm
Hope leads Kalamazoo 48-21 with 19:29 left in the 2nd half.  Its been all Hope.  I am not surprised either!   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 08:22:07 pm
Hope is absolutely taking care of the Hornets tonight.  I wouldnt be surprised if they are able to get about 90 points, and theres enough time for that to happen.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 08:54:59 pm
Final from Hollywood:  80 Hope 47 Kalamazoo.   Next up for Hope, the winner of Olivet/Albion.....Albion leads Olivet 52-51 with 6:21 left in 2nd half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 09:09:03 pm
Olivet looks like it has seized control of the game.  With a minute left Olivet leads Albion 61-58.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 09:10:57 pm
Albion falls apart in the last few minutes of the game, as Olivet looks like it will come up with the win and will travel to meet Hope College.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 09:15:27 pm
Final score from Albion, Michigan: 65 Olivet 58 Albion College.

Next up in Holland Michigan on Thursday....Hope College will host Olivet College Comets, slated for a 7:30pm tipoff.


Still no results available from the Alma/St. Mary's game, with the winner, traveling to take on the Calvin College Knights on Thursday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 21, 2006, 09:19:19 pm
Following are tonight's finals:

80  Hope   47 Kalamazoo
75  Calvin  46 Adrian
49  Alma    46 St. Marys
65 Olivet    58 Albion

Thursday:  Olivet @ Hope
                  Alma  @ Calvin



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on February 22, 2006, 12:02:34 am
The Hope ladies are very good, and they will only continue to get better. Mo is an excellent coach and just like his men's team counterpart, he is turning out to be a great recruiter as well.

It's fun to watch the girls play too, something that cannot always be said of womens bball teams. Bria adds some serious speed to the dutch and Jordan is probably the best shooter currently in the basketball program at Hope (mens and womens).

I'm looking forward to catching a few of their tourney games @ Devos  :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 22, 2006, 03:39:41 pm
This Hope team is better than any other team I have seen in my 5 years of watching DIII basketball as a student.  I made my prediction a long time ago, no one, will stop this team.  I think they have been the most dominant team in the nation thus far.  I think they are going to chalk up many more wins.  2nd national championship trophy for the women's team is heading to Holland, Michigan come March.  They have a high octane offense, that is just unreal.  They know how to rebound, they force turnovers, they can push the ball, and can definitely hit the trifecta.  Without a doubt, I think they are the most complete women's team in DIII....and I personally think it would be a disappointment if they don't win it all.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 23, 2006, 11:31:06 pm
Thursday's scores:

63 Calvin 52 Alma

78 Hope  51 Olivet

Next up:  Hope hosts rival Calvin in the MIAA Championship game slated for a 3pm start  Saturday at the Devos Fieldhouse. 

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 24, 2006, 05:54:40 am
I have a dream that one day in the MIAA, women's sports will have much more attendance.  From the figures from the last Hope College contest, it shows that only 460 people were in attendance, which is a far outcry from the number of people that the Devos Fieldhouse can seat.  Come out and support the women's team at Hope College, which is ready to make a championship run.  Don't just be preoccupied with the men's team, but also give support to the women.  These women deserve it.  They give it their all each and every game.  It would be different, if a team wasn't good, but Hope's women are not only good, they are superb.  They are the complete package of what a team should be.  Where are the Dutchies hiding?  If I was a Hope alumni, I would make sure there were more people in the stands.  Can anyone imagine, the Devos only having 460 people at a game, for the men's team?  That wouldn't even be happening in a blizzard, people would find a way to get there.  If truly you want to see basketball at its finest people need to come out in numbers, and show their support for the team.  However for the people that do show up, I commend them.   Good luck to the ladies...may they continue to work hard, and have much more success!  :)
Title: MIAA
Post by: Flea on February 24, 2006, 12:29:00 pm
The comparison b/w the two genders' attendance is terrible. 

At Calvin, many of the "fans" are old folks, and they do not think women should be playing sports ... let alone watch them.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 25, 2006, 08:27:35 pm
Hey its not a bad hope.....for there to be more people at women's games... ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 26, 2006, 06:15:59 am
I have a strong feeling that the committee is going to give Hope a #1 seed, and it would foolish for them not to.  They finished off a perfect conference schedule, and dominated in the conference tournament.  Now the next goal is winning it all.  Though they will be challenged by the nation's best teams, I think the ladies can do it. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 26, 2006, 07:28:05 am
i to think hope can go all the way  maybe a double game sat with the men and the girls playing at home
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on February 27, 2006, 06:51:25 am
I am very curious to see who the committee matches Hope up with. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: silent_observer on February 27, 2006, 09:07:03 am
Looks like Hope gets Denison (22-8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Tdog on February 27, 2006, 01:38:34 pm
It would have been nice if the women could have played at home.  They have quite a following, it just looks sparse in such a big place. :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on February 27, 2006, 02:27:24 pm
To quote another post

"The reason the Hope women are traveling is due to NCAA policy.  When a school could potentially host both a mens' and womens' game, in even years the men are given priority, and in odd years the women are given priority.  This is to remove a potentially sticky decision from the host school.  The only hope for the women to be home was if the men were awarded one of the 5 byes, then the women could have hosted two games Friday and one each for the men and women on Saturday.  Once it became evident the men would not get a bye, this option was gone."

So, a weird policy screws the women out of a rightfully deserved home draw.  If this was an odd year, the men would get screwed as well.  Too bad for the women.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 28, 2006, 06:40:47 am
Massey says:

Washington over Manchester by 27
Calvin vs. Carroll: toss-up
Washington over Calvin/Carroll by 19

Hope over Denison by 17
Capital over Franklin by 9
Hope over Capital by 5
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hopefan on February 28, 2006, 04:30:18 pm
here I am in St Louis, the one and only "hopefan"...

This weekend , having to stay in the area, I can't watch the Wash U men as they're done, can't watch the Maryville men as they're in Mississippi, can't watch the Maryville ladies as they're up at Wheaton  .....BUT, the Calvin ladies are right here at Wash U

the quandry  what do I do

Go to Wash U and root for Calvin
Go to Wash U and root against Calvin
Go home and find a variety of games on the internet.

tough decision......
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 28, 2006, 10:12:28 pm
Oh come on Scott, if you're a true Hope fan the decision is simple - either option 2 or 3.   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on March 01, 2006, 12:35:55 am
or option one to have Hope  "be challenged by the nation's best teams" (in the words of albinomascot19). I would want to see the the Wash U./Hope matchup simply to give the tournament a chance to provide a theatre for a team to prove it is the best in the nation. Well, I am one for not wanting upsets I guess.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 01, 2006, 02:57:14 pm
Agreed - here's hoping we get to see that matchup
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on March 01, 2006, 05:59:03 pm
I have a dream that one day in the MIAA, women's sports will have much more attendance.  From the figures from the last Hope College contest, it shows that only 460 people were in attendance, which is a far outcry from the number of people that the Devos Fieldhouse can seat.  Come out and support the women's team at Hope College, which is ready to make a championship run.  Don't just be preoccupied with the men's team, but also give support to the women.  These women deserve it.  They give it their all each and every game.  It would be different, if a team wasn't good, but Hope's women are not only good, they are superb.  They are the complete package of what a team should be.  Where are the Dutchies hiding?  If I was a Hope alumni, I would make sure there were more people in the stands.  Can anyone imagine, the Devos only having 460 people at a game, for the men's team?  That wouldn't even be happening in a blizzard, people would find a way to get there.  If truly you want to see basketball at its finest people need to come out in numbers, and show their support for the team.  However for the people that do show up, I commend them.   Good luck to the ladies...may they continue to work hard, and have much more success!  :)

Instead of comparing them to the mens team (which boasts best attendance percentage in D3) compare them to other womens teams and/or other mens teams (with the exception of Calvin).

I have been to quite a few of the Lady Dutch games and they seem to fluctuate in attendance. I've been to a game with 500 people and I've been to a game with 1500 people.

Besides, the Devos makes anything short of full look empty. (hopefully that made sense?)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 01, 2006, 09:48:51 pm
Congrats to Lisa Winkle for being named 2nd-team All American by ESPN magazine -- http://www.cosida.com/formpdfs/2006AAAWBBRelease%5B2%5D.pdf

Congrats to the whole team on reaching the NCAAs again this year, when the team has only two upperclassmen!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on March 02, 2006, 01:03:22 am
I'm a little upset with you FDF and Hopefan.  Now I am a Calvin Knight fan so I might be a little biased, but I know that no matter what the situation, when it comes to the NCAA tournament, the only time I will cheer against an MIAA team is if they are playing Calvin.  No matter if it is hope, albion, or any of the rest.  The MIAA has enough problems earning the respect of all division 3 schools and the NCAA tournament committee every year, when it is one of the toughest conferences in D3 hoops.  So if I had my choice sitting in a city and my only option was to go and watch an MIAA team play in the NCAA tourney, I'm sure I would end up going to that game and cheering the MIAA on.
That said... I think Calvin has a good chance to come out of St. Louis still in the tourney.  Hope has a tough road in their regional, but I hope they make it through.  Here's to all the MIAA teams, both men and women, lets hope someone from our league makes it to the final four, and continues to earn our league some much due respect.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 02, 2006, 05:33:37 am
I bet it'd be a pretty wild reception in Holland if both the mens' and women's teams both can claim the hardware in Salem this year ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: devossed on March 02, 2006, 09:12:50 am
I bet it'd be a pretty wild reception in Holland if both the mens' and women's teams both can claim the hardware in Salem this year ;D

Wild Bill wouldn't know quite what to do...Neither would Arville.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 02, 2006, 10:43:23 am
I'm a little upset with you FDF and Hopefan.  Now I am a Calvin Knight fan so I might be a little biased, but I know that no matter what the situation, when it comes to the NCAA tournament, the only time I will cheer against an MIAA team is if they are playing Calvin.  No matter if it is hope, albion, or any of the rest.  The MIAA has enough problems earning the respect of all division 3 schools and the NCAA tournament committee every year, when it is one of the toughest conferences in D3 hoops.  So if I had my choice sitting in a city and my only option was to go and watch an MIAA team play in the NCAA tourney, I'm sure I would end up going to that game and cheering the MIAA on.
That said... I think Calvin has a good chance to come out of St. Louis still in the tourney.  Hope has a tough road in their regional, but I hope they make it through.  Here's to all the MIAA teams, both men and women, lets hope someone from our league makes it to the final four, and continues to earn our league some much due respect.

...and the  ;D at the end didn't clue you into the fact that I was kidding??   As it happens, I saw all 3 games played at Albion last year in the NCAA tournament, despite having no team there playing.  I was a Calvin supporter against Miss, and an Albion supporter against John Carroll.  As for the last game - I'll just say I rooted for an MIAA team   :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 02, 2006, 04:28:47 pm
I bet it'd be a pretty wild reception in Holland if both the mens' and women's teams both can claim the hardware in Salem this year ;D

It would be an even more amazing considering the women's final isn't in Salem.   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 03, 2006, 07:40:00 am
Congrats to the whole team on reaching the NCAAs again this year, when the team has only two upperclassmen!

Almost sounds like John Ross might have learned how to walk on water from KVS.  ;) :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 03, 2006, 05:20:52 pm
That said... I think Calvin has a good chance to come out of St. Louis still in the tourney.  Hope has a tough road in their regional, but I hope they make it through.  Here's to all the MIAA teams, both men and women, lets hope someone from our league makes it to the final four, and continues to earn our league some much due respect.

I am not sure I agree with your post.  While Hope, in deed, has a tough road, Washington U. is nothing to look past.  I hope you are right with the Knights but if you are going to say one of the MIAA teams have a tough road this weekend, make sure you acknowledge how difficult both games will be for both teams.  I don't think either team got a very nice/easy road to the sectionals.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 03, 2006, 05:21:15 pm
Congrats to the whole team on reaching the NCAAs again this year, when the team has only two upperclassmen!

Almost sounds like John Ross might have learned how to walk on water from KVS.  ;) :D

 :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 03, 2006, 06:43:35 pm
Hope advances to the second round with a 21 point win over Denison.  72-51.  They will play the winner of the Franklin-Capital tomorrow at Capital.

Any updates on the Calvin women's game?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 03, 2006, 07:42:25 pm
Unfortunately the Knights fell tonight.  One and done.  Hopefully Hope can represent the league well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on March 03, 2006, 07:47:09 pm
Hope advances to the second round with a 21 point win over Denison.

Now I hope the Flying Dutchwomen win the whole thing ... and I only sign psalms.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 03, 2006, 09:12:59 pm
Hope advances to the second round with a 21 point win over Denison.

Now I hope the Flying Dutchwomen win the whole thing ... and I only sign psalms.

Tomorrow they will face the regional host - Capital.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 04, 2006, 08:41:14 am
Hey guys, one game at a time.....next up for the ladies...playing Capital at 8:30pm.  While on the men's side Calvin and Hope get ready for their 161 meeting between each other at the Devos Field House.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 04, 2006, 11:06:43 pm
Hope defeats the host Capital Crusaders or whatever they were.  I wonder if the Flying Dutch will get to host sectionals.  Probably not very likely but they deserved to this weekend but were screwed by the men.  Probably a road trip to DePauw...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 05, 2006, 02:20:35 am
We need to talk about their fast start in the first half as they made 15 out of their first 21 shots, that is unbelievable.  The Hope women's team just ran away with the game from start to finish.  Also the men beat Calvin, which sends both teams to the Sweet Sixteen, what a great season it has been so far!  Lets see them both keep it going! 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 05, 2006, 02:21:25 am
Hope College has one of the best record in the nation, there is no reason to why they shouldnt be able to host.  It is without question they deserve to host a sectional.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 06, 2006, 10:18:22 am
Hope College has one of the best record in the nation, there is no reason to why they shouldnt be able to host.  It is without question they deserve to host a sectional.

DePauw has a 2800 seat arena, how many can Hope seat?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Tdog on March 06, 2006, 12:20:04 pm
Couldn't agree with you more.  Hope women deserved to play a game at home, but DePauw is supposed to be more geographically located that Holland.  The DeVos seats 3500, so it could easily handle the crowd.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on March 06, 2006, 06:30:47 pm
DePauw has a 2800 seat arena, how many can Hope seat?

Do you think the games would draw more than 2,800?  Even though Hope seats more ... with their arerna and season they should host.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jagluski on March 06, 2006, 07:46:00 pm
Hope College has one of the best record in the nation, there is no reason to why they shouldnt be able to host.  It is without question they deserve to host a sectional.

Without question...except for the fact that DePauw is centrally located and more importantly, a higher seed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on March 07, 2006, 10:10:39 am
check the link for sectional complaints.

http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=153#comments

it gave me some decent insight on how they pick.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 08, 2006, 03:38:30 pm
Without question Hope College is going to be faced with a tough task when they take on Washington University (MO) in their next game.  Hope has been pretty consistent all year on both ends of the floor, now they will have to come with the same effort and energy, and beat a very talented Bears team.  I am really pulling for the ladies, and hope they can get the job done!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 09, 2006, 11:14:03 am
this has to be the most difficult sectionals!

Hope (#6 in d3h.com poll)
vs
Washington (#3 w/ 2 fist place votes)

Depauw (#4 w/ 2 first place votes)
vs.
Wheaton IL (#14)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jagluski on March 09, 2006, 12:44:44 pm
this has to be the most difficult sectionals!

Hope (#6 in d3h.com poll)
vs
Washington (#3 w/ 2 fist place votes)

Depauw (#4 w/ 2 first place votes)
vs.
Wheaton IL (#14)

The most amazing thing to me is that you've got the two teams with the longest winning streaks in Division III and the only two teams to beat them in this sectional.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2006, 06:58:23 pm
D3hoopsNet, under contract from NCAAsports.com, will be broadcasting the entire DePauw sectional. Coverage starts a half-hour before tipoff and includes a preview of all four sectionals, plus in-game "live look-ins" at other sectionals in progress.

Gordon Mann on the call, with Wes Anderson joining for the sectional opener.

http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
Title: Sweet Sixteen Update
Post by: tniem on March 10, 2006, 05:40:03 pm
Halftime, lots of scoring, Hope leads Washington 55-45.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: jagluski on March 10, 2006, 07:03:21 pm
As a Wash U alum/fan, I just want to say that was a great game today.

I'll be cheering for Hope to go all the way.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 10, 2006, 07:34:47 pm
congrats to the Flying Dutch on a big win over Washington U!  time to look foreward to tomorrow!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 11, 2006, 10:28:20 am
When a team is winning there seem to be a lot of people that join the "bandwagon" so to speak.  I have been praising Hope Flying Dutch all year.  I also mentioned how it was going to be a challenge for the ladies to take on the Bears, and they really were up to the task.  I wish them continued success through the tournament.  An increasingly difficult matchup coming for the Flying Dutch, as they take the Depauw Tigers, in the sectional finals.  It should be a battle.  Congrats to the ladies.  I hope now more people will pay attention to this team, and they should after the men's team lost yesterday against the Wittenberg Tigers.  Looking forward to hearing the live play by play coverage.  Lets Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on March 11, 2006, 08:58:34 pm
Hope wins going away.  Final Four next week!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 11, 2006, 09:10:57 pm
Congrats to the Dutch.

Bria Ebels was saddled with two fouls early, but the rest of the team really responded. 

And kudos to the Hope faithful who travelled down from Holland.  Between them and the DePauw students, this was a fantastic environment.  One of the best I've seen for women's D3.

"Hope" to see you in Springfield, Mass next weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 12, 2006, 01:58:47 am
Congrats to the Dutch.

Bria Ebels was saddled with two fouls early, but the rest of the team really responded. 

And kudos to the Hope faithful who travelled down from Holland.  Between them and the DePauw students, this was a fantastic environment.  One of the best I've seen for women's D3.

"Hope" to see you in Springfield, Mass next weekend.

Actually I think many of those people came over from Springfield OH after last night.   I heard many people makeing plans to do just that.

I'm sure Hope will be well represented in Mass.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 12, 2006, 08:34:50 am
way  yo go hope girls see you next week in the final 4
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2006, 09:53:28 am
The Flying Dutch were just amazing last night.  What a weekend, beat #3 in the nation on Friday, and #4 on their own floor on Saturday.  Now we get #2 on Friday, and potentially #1 on Saturday.  A Championship would have to be the ultimate streak of games, and I'm confident they can do it.  This team is so deep, and you can see it in their play - they know they can beat anybody.

The crowd last night was awesome - nearly as many Hope fans as DePauw.  The DaPauw crowd is an extremely rude bunch, and it's not just the students.  We were sitting near the daults/parents, and the language they used was disgusting.  Really makes you appreciate Hope fans.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 12, 2006, 03:41:19 pm
if any hope fans are going this week  i am wondering what motel you are staying in please we are leaving thur night   dtysse@chartermi.net
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 12, 2006, 05:37:56 pm
As a WashU fan, I can only root for Hope now, which would make four years out of five that WashU is knocked out by the National Champion before the final four.  Southern Maine and Scranton get endless trips to the final four while better teams are knocking each other out in the midwest.

It is particularly disappointing this year because this was the last shot for Manning, the greatest WashU player to not even get a trip to the Final Four.  Also Fischer, Rodgers and Fahey appear to be getting plaques AND I lived in Springfield for two years, but I can't rationalize the trip without the team being there playing.

So good luck and enjoy yourselves, because I'm not.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DPU_radio_guy on March 12, 2006, 08:36:33 pm
While I'm rather biased, I'd like to comment on the DPU student section.

First, I have a hard time believing that was the first time you ever heard a BS call at a basketball game.  That happens at every level all the way up to the NBA.  I mean come on.  The student section at every D1 school (Duke excluded, which prefers "We Big to Differ") in the country uses that one.

Second, the administration did do something about the use of the F word.  There was a mandate laid down by DPU Police in the first half that anybody (or everybody if necessary) that used the F word would be ejected.  To my knowledge, nobody was ejected, but the F word wasn't present in the second half either.  I heard it in the first half, and the administration stopped it.

I also apparently completely blanked the "whore" incident. Everyone I've spoken to who was at the game (including the "leader" of the student section itself) has no recollection of your allegation, either. 

I've been on the road with DePauw men's and women's teams, and several of them (particularly in some non-conference games, mostly not within the SCAC) were way worse than anything I heard at the Neal Fieldhouse on Friday or Saturday.  That's not a defense, but go play at Wabash or at Centre one night.  You'll never want to go that place ever again.  Obviously your women can't play Wabash, but what you saw was a walk in the park compared to that outing this year. 


Say what you will, apparently those of us here in Greencastle don't show the same high moral values that you'll find at the DeVos Fieldhouse.  No way a couple thousand college students would EVER do anything immoral. 
Title: Moving post
Post by: dren on March 12, 2006, 09:11:46 pm
Re: the behavior of DePauw 'fans':

If the situation was as reported (and I have no reason to doubt that it was), one obvious consequence is that DePauw should never even be CONSIDERED for hosting tournament games again until such time as they can give enforceable guantantees that such behavior will NOT be repeated (and if it is, that the offenders will be immediately ejected from the premises).

Both the BS and 'xxx sucks' chants have, deplorably, become so common that they seem to be tacitly legitimized, but I had never previously heard of 'whore' directed at officials or (according to at least one post) opposing players.  That is beyond despicable.  And I agree with the post that the even worse thing was that no DePauw officials did anything about it.  What the hell sort of a 'teaching institution' are they running down there in Greencastle?!

I worked all afternoon on my email to the Hope Pres, Hope AD, Depauw Pres, Depauw AD, MIAA commish, SCAC commish, NCAA D3 womens GL rep, and NCAA D3 Commissioner on Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct.  I'm sure I'll get some replies tomorrow.  I was sure to stress that in wasn't the fans that struck me as terrible... it was the lack of authority at the game.  I was also sure to stress that the Depauw players and coaches played very tough and had nothing to do with the actions of the Depauw fans.

Again... I encourage everyone to send a quick email down that list.  One complaint isn't much, but just 4 or 5 can raise some attention to the problem. 


David L. Neilson, MIAA Commissioner: miaacommish@ameritech.net
Ray Smith, Hope College AD: resmith@hope.edu
James E. Bultman, Hope College president: bultmanj@hope.edu
Steve Argo, SCAC Commissioner: sargo@scac-online.org
Robert G. Bottoms, Depauw President:   bbottoms@depauw.edu
Page Cotton,  Depauw AD:    pagecotton@depauw.edu
Rosalyn Fornari, Division III Women's Basketball Committee Great Lakes Rep (head coach at PSU Behrend College):  rxf16@psu.edu
Chuck Mitrano, Committee on Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct DIII Commissioner cmitrano@Empire8.com
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dren on March 12, 2006, 09:31:41 pm
While I'm rather biased, I'd like to comment on the DPU student section.

First, I have a hard time believing that was the first time you ever heard a BS call at a basketball game.  That happens at every level all the way up to the NBA.  I mean come on.  The student section at every D1 school (Duke excluded, which prefers "We Big to Differ") in the country uses that one.

Second, the administration did do something about the use of the F word.  There was a mandate laid down by DPU Police in the first half that anybody (or everybody if necessary) that used the F word would be ejected.  To my knowledge, nobody was ejected, but the F word wasn't present in the second half either.  I heard it in the first half, and the administration stopped it.

I also apparently completely blanked the "whore" incident. Everyone I've spoken to who was at the game (including the "leader" of the student section itself) has no recollection of your allegation, either. 

I've been on the road with DePauw men's and women's teams, and several of them (particularly in some non-conference games, mostly not within the SCAC) were way worse than anything I heard at the Neal Fieldhouse on Friday or Saturday.  That's not a defense, but go play at Wabash or at Centre one night.  You'll never want to go that place ever again.  Obviously your women can't play Wabash, but what you saw was a walk in the park compared to that outing this year. 


Say what you will, apparently those of us here in Greencastle don't show the same high moral values that you'll find at the DeVos Fieldhouse.  No way a couple thousand college students would EVER do anything immoral. 

Great defense... "but everyone else is doing it, that means it is accpetable.." or "were not as bad as insert team name here, they are really bad!!"

Quote
Say what you will, apparently those of us here in Greencastle don't show the same high moral values that you'll find at the DeVos Fieldhouse.  No way a couple thousand college students would EVER do anything immoral. 

That pretty much sums up my point... you are hosting an NCAA Championship event.  What kind of image are you trying to portray as Depauw University students?  Really you guys are no diffenent than any other school... but if you want everyone to remember Depauw as just another Break.com University thats up to you...
Title: Re: Let's Talk MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2006, 10:37:30 pm
Re: the behavior of DePauw 'fans':

If the situation was as reported (and I have no reason to doubt that it was), one obvious consequence is that DePauw should never even be CONSIDERED for hosting tournament games again until such time as they can give enforceable guantantees that such behavior will NOT be repeated (and if it is, that the offenders will be immediately ejected from the premises).

Both the BS and 'xxx sucks' chants have, deplorably, become so common that they seem to be tacitly legitimized, but I had never previously heard of 'whore' directed at officials or (according to at least one post) opposing players.  That is beyond despicable.  And I agree with the post that the even worse thing was that no DePauw officials did anything about it.  What the hell sort of a 'teaching institution' are they running down there in Greencastle?!

I worked all afternoon on my email to the Hope Pres, Hope AD, Depauw Pres, Depauw AD, MIAA commish, SCAC commish, NCAA D3 womens GL rep, and NCAA D3 Commissioner on Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct.  I'm sure I'll get some replies tomorrow.  I was sure to stress that in wasn't the fans that struck me as terrible... it was the lack of authority at the game.  I was also sure to stress that the Depauw players and coaches played very tough and had nothing to do with the actions of the Depauw fans.

Again... I encourage everyone to send a quick email down that list.  One complaint isn't much, but just 4 or 5 can raise some attention to the problem. 


David L. Neilson, MIAA Commissioner: miaacommish@ameritech.net
Ray Smith, Hope College AD: resmith@hope.edu
James E. Bultman, Hope College president: bultmanj@hope.edu
Steve Argo, SCAC Commissioner: sargo@scac-online.org
Robert G. Bottoms, Depauw President:   bbottoms@depauw.edu
Page Cotton,  Depauw AD:    pagecotton@depauw.edu
Rosalyn Fornari, Division III Women's Basketball Committee Great Lakes Rep (head coach at PSU Behrend College):  rxf16@psu.edu
Chuck Mitrano, Committee on Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct DIII Commissioner cmitrano@Empire8.com


Sent my description of it off this afternoon - most appalling to me was the adults/parents who eventually were swearing at their own team
Title: Re: Let's Talk MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 12, 2006, 10:46:30 pm
I was also sure to stress that the Depauw players and coaches played very tough and had nothing to do with the actions of the Depauw fans.

No blame belongs to the team, but I wonder if their style of play gave the fans reason to ride the refs more throughout the year. The DePauw girls appeared to push off, at least lightly, quite regularly and played a very out-of-control offensive foul prone style. Particularly #11 seemed to just throw her body around hoping to get a foul called on the defense. I think Bria actually got her second foul because of that tactic before the officials picked up that #11 was just going to sling herself all over the place waiting to get contact called in her favor. This is just a style thing and I didn't see anything actually classless by the DePauw players, but I could picture some games where officials were willing to call a lot of these things against DePauw earlier in the year and the crowd decided the officials were going to be the enemy every night. That doesn't explain the need to attack any visiting opponent though and certainly doesn't put the players at fault, but I wonder if the fans decided because their team plays in a tough style, that they should try to be as "tough" (as if that disgusting display was tough) as they could be in the stands as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 13, 2006, 07:13:43 am
DPU, et. al,

Does DePauw fans show up in those numbers for all women's games?  Do you have a female student section all season?  Or is this you guys moving over after the men's season?  Likewise, the other schools in your conference (Wabash is a men's only school), are you refering to their Men's teams or Women's teams?  And yes it does matter or at least it might explain some of sGo's feelings.


So the trip to Mass. this weekend...  Quite a drive from DC, who thinks I should go?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 13, 2006, 07:25:20 am
Does DePauw fans show up in those numbers for all women's games?  Do you have a female student section all season?  Or is this you guys moving over after the men's season?  Likewise, the other schools in your conference (Wabash is a men's only school), are you refering to their Men's teams or Women's teams?  And yes it does matter or at least it might explain some of sGo's feelings.

OK, question asked, answer answered.  Appears your highest attendance for women's games this season was 825 (Rose-Holman, they had over a thousand at their home game so I assume they our your rival or they are close by in terms of miles and both team's fans can show up).  Beyond that it was 325.  So it sounds like this is your men's student section moving over to the women's side where there is a different decorum.  IMO, even at a men's game, BS is a classless chant.  It has nothing to do with morals.  And do not even get me started on wh---.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2006, 08:50:17 am
DPU, et. al,

Does DePauw fans show up in those numbers for all women's games?  Do you have a female student section all season?  Or is this you guys moving over after the men's season?  Likewise, the other schools in your conference (Wabash is a men's only school), are you refering to their Men's teams or Women's teams?  And yes it does matter or at least it might explain some of sGo's feelings.


So the trip to Mass. this weekend...  Quite a drive from DC, who thinks I should go?

CM and I will be there, and expect to see you   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Josh Bowerman on March 13, 2006, 11:16:49 am
Greetings, Hope fans!  Congratulations on your women's team advancing to the Final Four this weekend in Springfield.  I hope that your ladies play well and wish them good luck.

I'll be photographing the game for d3hoops.com, and would encourage you to check out the photo galleries each night after the games.  And, please stop by and say "hi" during the timeouts--it would be nice to make your acquaintance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 13, 2006, 11:38:03 am
All I have to say is now people are finally giving the ladies team props.....while I have been saying it all along....I think this team is totally incredible.....Hope College should be able to get by Scranton, and with a possible championship matchup with Southern Maine.  The Hope Flying Dutch have really represented the MIAA well, and now two wins away from a 2nd National championship since 1990.  I bet if the men's team were still in it, Hope Flying Dutch would still be getting no respect whatsoever.  I am happy that everyone can focus on the ultimate team.  I really believe if they continue to play the way they have all season,they should holding the hardware in the end. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 13, 2006, 11:40:33 am
Josh: Nice to know that you are the photographer.  Yeah, I will definitely check out the pictures.  I am looking forward to a well played game this weekend.  Lets Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dren on March 14, 2006, 11:35:34 am
Appartently my thoughts on Depauw are not unfounded...

I too was at the DePauw game.  We made the roadtrip from Ohio to Indiana!  During the game I noticed that there was a gentleman in a suit with his wife (I assumed) sitting at the end of our row in the HOPE section. During one of the infamous DePauw student section cheers, I turned to him and asked if he was the DU President.  He affirmed.  I then asked if he condoned this type of cheering.  He looked at me, with a baffled look, and said, "What cheers?"  I then pointed to the DU student section, and said, "That cheer, don't you hear it?"  He then said, "I don't hear anything."  But... his eyes really said it all.  He heard it.  But did NOTHING.  My letter will be written, but in a few days!


Hmmm....Let me start by agreeing with sGo Hope, and add that I was sitting next to the adult DePauw section (or one of them, anyway), and they were about as bad.  Loud, obnoxious, just plain scary.  When yelling obscenities at the refs over every step wasn't working, when calling some of our girls "dirty players" didn't work, they started swearing at their own players.  As you all know, that didn't help either!   ;)  It really was disgusting.

As to something being done -- there was a little bit done.  Someone from Hope in a position of authority, after several choruses of "Hope s#cks" and the other disgusting outbursts spoke to the NCAA rep and the AD for DePauw about it.  The choruses of "Hope s#cks" did stop, but not the other stuff, as best as I could tell.  It was an embarassment for DePauw -- why would a school put up with that at an event of this caliber???   ???

For any extra fuel needed against DePauw, one of the Dew Crew members down front commented that one of the costumed DePauw students looked like the Fonz and learned that this made him a "f--got." That was just one student though, which is nearly impossible to control, but the fact that similar venom became organized and consistent is the reason that the NCAA should seriously consider advising DePauw as to why home tournament games won't be played there any time soon.

Just spoke with a person who has a family member that goes to De Pauw.  They attended the game a week ago De Pauw/Marysville, and he commented the behavior on the part of De P students was worse than anything he has seen MIAA, Big 10, GLAIC etc. etc.  Language was terrible, and students started chanting for Marysville to leave at the half.  DP was up 17 at the time.
This person sat right behind the De Pauw President.  He indicated the President left at halftime, and walked right by the student section, and didn't say a thing.  To me this indicates that administration condones classless, and unsportmans like behavior.
He (my acquaintance) is sorry now he didn't say something to the President, but thought he would do it when the guy came back after the half, but the Pres. left the building.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2006, 12:27:41 pm
I sent an e-mail to the NCAA and Depawu "officials" late Sunday.  I doubt I will hear back, even though I asked for a response.

Got our tickets today - sounds like Hope will have a good following. 

Go HOPE
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 14, 2006, 03:08:00 pm
FDF (and everyone else travelling) - have a safe trip and a good time in Springfield; hopefully the Mass. version will be kinder to our women than the Ohio version was to our men!

Wish I could make the trip - esp. after what I saw from them Saturday...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 14, 2006, 03:19:49 pm
I wrote to the NCAA and DePauw on Sunday night, and just received this reply.  It sounds to me like they are genuinely concerned and I expect we'll be hearing more.

I apologize for the delay but thanks so much for the note. I chair the DIII Commissioners Associations Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct Committee and serve on the NCAAs national committee. I can also say the commissioners of these respective institutions are top notch people and will also address the matter. I’ll be sure to get this to the right people to address. Thanks for bringing this forward to be addressed and for your genuine concern of the integrity of our contests.

Kindest Regards,

Chuck Mitrano
Empire 8 Commissioner

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knights2000 on March 14, 2006, 05:42:31 pm
Congratulations to Lisa Winkle, 1st team all region. Also, Bria Ebels, 2nd team all region. Brian Morehouse, coach of the year. Once again, congratulations to all.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornetiger on March 14, 2006, 06:27:15 pm
I was at the game Saturday night, relatively close to the student seciton (I was in the pep band).  I don't recall ever hearing the "whore" chant.  It's not like the Hope student section were angels.  They said some stuff akin to the DePauw student section but it was usually drowned out. Some of the adult Hope fans also said some not so nice things during the first half directly addressing the refs and saying things that can't be repeated here.   I'm not saying this is the norm for the Hope fans; the clear majority of them were very nice and courteous, even nice enough to clap for the pep band after the game...we usually don't get applause like that.

From my observations it seemed like the main function of the police and security near the DePauw student section was to keep from overflow...there were several DePauw students turned away from the student section because it was full. Also,

I'm sure that if anything at the game was as bad as others indicated the NCAA representative sitting at the scorers' table would have done something.

I get the feeling that if this game was held at Hope some of the same things may have been heard from the Hope student section.

As far as attendance numbers go, there's some things to keep in mind. One, the SCAC works on a Friday-Sunday conference game rotation. The womens' games are most always before the men, starting at 6 o'clock which conflicts directly with the time most fraternities and sororities serve dinner (DePauw is 75% greek, so it makes a large difference).  Also, the Sunday games are in the afternoon when most students are doing homework / sleeping in / what have you. Also, Hope has a good 900 more students than DePauw as well. 

That being said, good luck to Hope in the Final 4 and DePauw can definitely start looking forward to next year as only of the Tigers' top 11 players graduates, and Liz Bondi still has one year of NCAA eligibility left.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 14, 2006, 07:28:42 pm


I get the feeling that if this game was held at Hope some of the same things may have been heard from the Hope student section.


Not a chance... You are dead wrong here... While the occasional slip may happen at Hope, I guarantee that the AD and President would nip it in the bud. I really doubt you heard anything as bad from the Hope fans as has been mentioned here about the DePauw. You should be embarrassed and coming to this site to grovel, rather that passing the buck and defending your school...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 14, 2006, 07:42:17 pm
yeah hope sold all there tickets today 250  and maybe 2 charter buses going to
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowboy J on March 15, 2006, 12:45:01 am
I have been reading the many comments made by Hope fans after DePauw's hosting of the Great Lakes/Central Region Sectional this past weekend, and decided it was high time that I saddle up and offer a few observations of my own. Especially after 'NW Hope Fan' just tore apart 'hornetiger' ... who was about as complimentary of Hope people as a non-Hope person could be, and who is a first-time poster on this board. What, if it's not entirely pro-Hope, you don't want to hear it? Come on. Let's just say I don't think it's hornetiger who should be embarrassed.

Before the weekend, I simply knew of Hope as a christian school in Michigan. Being a traveler, and enjoying women's basketball, I have also had occasion to watch the Hope women play. When I saw the sectional bracket, I knew three very good teams would be knocked out, with only one advancing to Springfield, Mass. After the weekend, however, I know and have learned a lot more.

Having been at the weekend games, I must say that I am most surprised at the reaction and the constant attention given the DePauw fans ... by Hope fans. People must be scratching their heads, especially those who are used to DePauw's usual 200-or-so fans at the Lilly Center. Other people might be horrified at what they have read. To all I will simply say, relax. The Hope fans are probably accurate in some of their recounting, but important details are being left out, and some stuff is just way blown out of proportion. It's also amusing to read some of the information that is being presented as fact, when they have "known" DePauw for a game, or maybe two. Absurd.

While some people told me the chants of "Bull****" did involve a large part of the student section, the comments of "whore" were heard by some, but they came from a sprinkling of students, at best. (Not the impression one poster gave, for sure, which is an important detail to omit. One or two or five is not the entire student section chanting.) And, the police officers and the DePauw administration and the NCAA rep did nothing? Tell that to the people who received a stern talking to, or who were kicked out of the gym, in a couple of cases, or to the ones who had noise makers and other items taken away from them. And, the DePauw parents swearing at their own players? You're making a group of great people sound like a bunch of hoodlums. And lay off President Bottoms, too. He's a good man who's appreciated around here.  

And to 'andersdy' who posted something about DePauw's "tough style" which might have made the crowd more "tough" and the team using an "out-of-control, offensive foul prone style of play" with DePauw's #11 "throwing her body around"... Don't come up with some loose relationship between team and fans, and a scouting report on the Tigers and #11, after seeing them for one game, or on one weekend. That is completely ridiculous. As for the DePauw players "pushing off, at least lightly," I might agree with the lightly part, if anything. You make the Tigers out to be the devil, and your Flying Dutch, the saints. Oh, okay. I have seen enough of the DePauw women's basketball team to know that they are a gem of a group, led by a truly classy coach, and they're as within-the-rules as anybody. So, you'd be wise not to go there. As for the complaining about Bria Ebels getting her second foul, early in the game, when #11 was "throwing her body around," I can bet it wasn't #11's intent. But, as stated earlier, I have had occasion to watch Hope play, and although immensely talented, Bria Ebels is a flopper. I've seen it a number of times. Case in point: end of the first half against Wash U. Sure, the Wash U player had no business being that close, but Bria put an exclamation point on her fall. That's how I saw it, anyway. I would love to see it on tape. If I am wrong, there are others I have definitely witnessed, as a neutral observer of previous games, I might add. Although not against the rules, some people perceive flopping as being deceitful. Oops, my bad. Forgot we're talking about Hope here. No way a Flying Dutch would stoop to that level. What am I thinking?

I am quite sure DePauw might recognize ways to improve their next hosting of a women's basketball sectional. There is always room to learn. But, if the Hope fans who have gone on a letter-writing and smearing campaign have their way, it may not happen.(Although, if by their on-court performance they deserve it, I have no reason to believe the DePauw women won't host again ... at the next available time.) One of the most disappointing things to me is the unfair judgments some members of the Hope community have placed upon DePauw, its women's basketball team and its running of last weekend's sectional. Sure, there were apparently some crowd problems, but enough to warrant this type of response? Geez, unlike how some of you present yourselves, DePauw never claimed to be perfect. And to judge so quickly and to comment so harshly (poor 'hornetiger,' for one)? Doesn't sound very christian-like to me. What happened to a certain amount of tolerance and not judging and...?

As part of the hosting process, I would think DePauw would sit down and evaluate the job that was done ... the goods and the bads. As for Hope, I think some soul searching needs to be done by them, too. At least by the ones who have been bashing DePauw to no end. (Did you really need to take the information to the men's MIAA site, and then continue to post stuff there after Pat Coleman at least twice told you to keep the information on the underutilized women's site?) It makes one wonder if there is not a greater mission at hand. Bash DePauw into the ground so they can never host again, and glorify Hope so they get an opportunity at every turn. To that end (glorifying Hope), I might add... I think a separate posting board within Great Lakes should be added for Hope fans alone. If I were a non-Hope part of the MIAA, I would get tired of the constant lovefest. "We're the best, Hope fans." "Gotta love Hope fans!" "The Flying Dutch are all that." While I think it's great to love one's school, most ALL people love their schools, and the people who make up their schools. What's really meaningful is when it moves from "self-proclaimed greatness" to outsiders jumping on board. The former gets a bit tiring. But that's just me, a DePauw fan, talking.

I will close with the following: Alright. Enough. We get it. I can't imagine another way you Hope fans could re-word your feelings of disgust about the DePauw fans and DePauw's handling of them. Much to your dismay, the DePauw people at the games would probably agree with some of your points, and beg to differ on the others. Forgive our imperfections. Also, please forgive this first-time poster for the length of this writing, but I wanted to cover a lot of territory before hopping off of my horse for what might be the last time. I invite any Hope posters ... you know who you are... to get off of your (high) horses, too. After all, you have other business at hand.

Not holier than thou, but one proud Tiger fan. Congratulations on a most successful year, Coach Huffman and Co. I wouldn't trade you for the world!

Cowboy J   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2006, 08:15:17 am
I will close with the following: Alright. Enough. We get it. I can't imagine another way you Hope fans could re-word your feelings of disgust about the DePauw fans and DePauw's handling of them. Much to your dismay, the DePauw people at the games would probably agree with some of your points, and beg to differ on the others. Forgive our imperfections.    

CJ - I hear what you're saying, and in your shoes I would be defensive as well - but it doesn't change the behaviour we endured.  For me the really frustrating part of all this, has been the lack of what you say in the paragraph I quoted - that the DePauw fans would agree with some of our points.  Lacking that, it appears that this must be the norm and DePauw fans just accept it.  It's good to know that is not necessarily the case.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Old Gold on March 15, 2006, 10:04:42 am
Actually, Flying Dutch Fan, you would never be in CJ's shoes since it appears that Hope College fans never exhibit bad fan behavior and this discussion wouldn't exist with you on the defensive. ;D

First congratulations to the Hope players on a great season. You should be proud of your accomplishments.

Second, I am absolutely appalled. Yes, appalled that a small group of emotionally-charged fans would use a public forum to make accusations and broad generalizations regarding the DePauw administration and their actions or, in your view, inaction during Saturday night’s NCAA game.

Profanity from fans, coaches and players shouldn’t be tolerated in college arenas. Unfortunately, it is prevalent throughout the country. If you’re a fan of college basketball, then you’d have to be ignorant to think that the only place it occurs is in Greencastle, Indiana.

That’s not a defense for it, but it’s an issue with which college administrators across the country are dealing and your assaults on the entire DePauw community are incredibly judgmental at the very least.

The DePauw administrators did nothing? That is simply not true! I saw students escorted from the game. I also saw the athletic director address individual students when their individual behavior was identified and that individual behavior then ceased. Additionally, multiple readings of the sportsmanship statement occurred throughout the game by the public address announcer.

Yes, there were “BS” cheers. Perhaps three in the first half and one in the second half and they lasted about two or three seconds before the students policed themselves.

There's a mighty broad brush covered in orange and blue being used to paint the entire DePauw community as irresponsible. That painting is as irresponsible as, say, one or two students screaming “whore.”

Andersdy, you might want to clarify your post about the DePauw players having a style of play. If you are implying that the DePauw coaches “teach” a certain style, then you are on an island, my friend. Kris Huffman and her teams are among the most respected on any level and they play the game fairly and with integrity.

A question to all Hope fans who were at the game.

What would Hope have done other than remove spectators from the game, read the sportsmanship announcement several times and address individual behavior in order to put an end to it?

It's easy to be critical when you think you should be the host of the entire tournament, but it's much more difficult to actually present solutions and no one here has done that other than to say DePauw did nothing.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2006, 10:17:35 am
Second, I am absolutely appalled. Yes, appalled that a small group of emotionally-charged fans would use a public forum to make accusations and broad generalizations regarding the DePauw administration and their actions or, in your view, inaction during Saturday night’s NCAA game.

You've made our point - you seem to be more upset by our pointing out what happened than you are by the actual events. 

Profanity from fans, coaches and players shouldn’t be tolerated in college arenas. Unfortunately, it is prevalent throughout the country. If you’re a fan of college basketball, then you’d have to be ignorant to think that the only place it occurs is in Greencastle, Indiana.

Well it doesn't occur in the MIAA - you may find that hard to believe, but we (the fans of teams in this league) cheer passionately for our teams, and get upset and yell at the officials, all without using that kind of language.  In fact I have witnessed the fans policing themselves in the rare occaision when the bad language occurs.


The DePauw administrators did nothing? That is simply not true! I saw students escorted from the game. I also saw the athletic director address individual students when their individual behavior was identified and that individual behavior then ceased. Additionally, multiple readings of the sportsmanship statement occurred throughout the game by the public address announcer.

And the President of DePauw was questioned during the game about the cheers, which he claimed to not hear, and proceeded to leave the building.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Old Gold on March 15, 2006, 10:58:00 am
I've made your point? You can't be serious!

I believe that I made it very clear that profanity shouldn't be tolerated. This is for obvious reasons and I think most of the posters to this site would agree.

Had you stopped there you wouldn't have gotten much of an argument. However, when you (the small group of posters here) chose to attack the DePauw administration and the NCAA Representative for inaction you also chose to distort the facts and simply make it up as your wrote.

You write in one sentence that it doesn't happen in the MIAA and then in the next sentence you write that on the rare occasion that it does happen, the fans police themselves. Which is it? It never happens or it rarely happens? If it rarely happens then it does, in fact, happen. The same could be said by supporters of DePauw University and the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference schools.

The NCAA's sportsmanship statement also denounces "other intimidating actions directed at officials, student-athletes, coaches or team representatives." I believe that fans, coaches and student-athletes yelling at officials without profanity, is also unsportsmanlike. Would you not agree on that?

I was not privy to the alleged conversation with the DePauw president. But if it happened after the DePauw and NCAA officials did their jobs and addressed the language issues, then what would you have wanted him to say.

To the Hope players, good luck this weekend!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2006, 12:24:03 pm
I'm dead serious. 

Yes, you said that profanity shouldn't be tolerated, but only after you said you were "absolutely appallled" at our complaints.  Our complaint is that in this instance, profanity was tolerated.

Now you're claiming we made this stuff up to make it sound worse, give me a break.  I witnessed this all first hand, so don't give me that crap.

Why can't you just admit that it was wrong, that something needs to be done about it, and quit trying to project some blame on us.



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knights2000 on March 15, 2006, 01:07:05 pm


I get the feeling that if this game was held at Hope some of the same things may have been heard from the Hope student section.


Not a chance... You are dead wrong here... While the occasional slip may happen at Hope, I guarantee that the AD and President would nip it in the bud. I really doubt you heard anything as bad from the Hope fans as has been mentioned here about the DePauw. You should be embarrassed and coming to this site to grovel, rather that passing the buck and defending your school...

As a Calvin fan, I will agree. I attended both Calvin/Hope mens games at Hope, where the Hope student section was much larger than the ones at Calvin (duh). Anyways, from what I can remember, Hope's chants were all within reason. I didn't have a problem with them, and from my personal expierience, I find it hard to believe that Hope fans said something out of reason.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Old Gold on March 15, 2006, 01:12:56 pm
Okay FDF,

Would this work better for you?

1. Profanity shouldn't be tolerated at athletic events.
2. I am appalled that accusations are being directed to the DePauw and NCAA officials for their "inaction."

I never said it didn't occur. It did. Is there a justification for it at a sporting event? No. How much clearer can I be on my feelings about that?

When the Hope posters extended the discussion into stating the DePauw officials didn't do anything, that's when you made things up.

I still am curious, is there no profanity at MIAA events or is it a rare occurence? It can't be both just as it isn't at DePauw University or the other SCAC schools. If I am limited to those two choices, then I'd have to say it's also a rare occurence at DePauw and in the SCAC.

I also haven't seen a post as to what you would do in addition to escorting students out of the venue, reading the sportsmanship announcement several times and addressing individual students on their individual behavior.

Again, good luck to the Hope players this weekend!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2006, 01:50:13 pm
Actually, that kind of response is right on.  I can assure you that should anything even close to this happen at a Hope game, your school, and probably the local paper would be receiveing a written apology.  I also know that the President of Hope, or either AD or SID or any coach would simply not allow it to happen.  The Dew Crew (Hope's student section) will stop a cheer (if the cheer happens to be negative toward the opponenet instead of supporting their team) with just a simple shake of the head from one of the coaches.

Do those kind of things happen in the MIAA ever - yes.  In my experience it has happened typically by individuals - some of whom were removed from the gym.  The only time I can remember a student section saying anything like that was the Calvin students at a Hope / Calvin mens game.  In that instance, it was chanted maybe twice before the head coach at Calvin put a stop to it.  I think the coach has the ability to stop it.

I thought I posted this before, but I also think a Technical Foul is a great answer.  Punish the team once, and they will make sure that it doesn't happen again.

As far as the DePauw officials not getting involved - I am only posting based on what I saw, and what other sources (reliable sources in the know) have shared with me.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 15, 2006, 01:59:47 pm
And to 'andersdy' who posted something about DePauw's "tough style" which might have made the crowd more "tough" and the team using an "out-of-control, offensive foul prone style of play" with DePauw's #11 "throwing her body around"... Don't come up with some loose relationship between team and fans, and a scouting report on the Tigers and #11, after seeing them for one game, or on one weekend. That is completely ridiculous. As for the DePauw players "pushing off, at least lightly," I might agree with the lightly part, if anything. You make the Tigers out to be the devil, and your Flying Dutch, the saints. Oh, okay. I have seen enough of the DePauw women's basketball team to know that they are a gem of a group, led by a truly classy coach, and they're as within-the-rules as anybody. So, you'd be wise not to go there. As for the complaining about Bria Ebels getting her second foul, early in the game, when #11 was "throwing her body around," I can bet it wasn't #11's intent. But, as stated earlier, I have had occasion to watch Hope play, and although immensely talented, Bria Ebels is a flopper. I've seen it a number of times. Case in point: end of the first half against Wash U. Sure, the Wash U player had no business being that close, but Bria put an exclamation point on her fall. That's how I saw it, anyway. I would love to see it on tape. If I am wrong, there are others I have definitely witnessed, as a neutral observer of previous games, I might add. Although not against the rules, some people perceive flopping as being deceitful. Oops, my bad. Forgot we're talking about Hope here. No way a Flying Dutch would stoop to that level. What am I thinking?  

Ok, calm down, it was baseless speculation as I started the whole theory with "I wonder if..." I watched one game and based on that game, #11 appeared to like creating contact. Nothing against the rules about that, but I do think that if an offensive player wants to create contact, that shouldn't be a defensive foul every time, and it wasn't called way more than it should have been, but I did think #11 succeeded in getting one cheap foul called on Bria. All I was saying is #11 particularly, and some of the rest of the team seemed to play a tough style that wasn't afraid of contact. They play a perfectly legal style of basketball, but it could be described as "attacking." I was simply throwing out an idea that perhaps misguided fans saw an attacking style of basketball and determined that they should also be on the attack from the stands. I have no basis for saying that other than observing a game where both team and fans were tough, but in very different ways.

Andersdy, you might want to clarify your post about the DePauw players having a style of play. If you are implying that the DePauw coaches “teach” a certain style, then you are on an island, my friend. Kris Huffman and her teams are among the most respected on any level and they play the game fairly and with integrity.

Yeah, to followup, DePauw was a tough team, and I did think the #11 plays a style which can draw fouls, but also creates offensive fouls which I was hoping the refs wouldn't ignore. Certainly any coach teaches some sort of style of play, but I wasn't saying anything underhanded is taught as if the players are schooled in getting cheap fouls. I saw nothing from the DePauw bench the entire game to question their class. I thought they liked creating contact, some of which I felt could have been called in Hope's favor, but there was nothing shameful done by the team. Heck, we Hope fans have a men's player who has been accused of knowing some tricks for drawing cheap fouls, so we know how we're only tempted to call a physical play "dirty" if it creates a call which went against us.


I know nothing about the reaction of the administration and wasn't near the non-student section, so the only claim I will make is that "bullsh--" and "you f--ked up" chants appeared to be well rehearsed parts of the DePauw students' repetoire. They were not random outbursts by individuals, but the planned cheers of a noticeable core group of students. I did not see any self-policing from the rest of the students as none in the student section seemed to have a problem with it. I won't claim to know specifics about what was done to stop these actions, but I do know that the same reports about the fans were made after Friday's game, so it doesn't appear as if the problem popped up out of nowhere when the cheers in question started in the first minute of Saturday's game. I have no idea what was done to control the students during the game (from my seat, all I heard was Charlie Brown's mother through the PA system) but it didn't appear that it had been considered enough of a problem to put a clear stop to any time before the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 15, 2006, 02:52:56 pm
Spoke with a person who has family attending De Pauw, and  several things are clear (to me at least).   What happened last Sat. night was not an isolated incident.  What is considered as rude, vulgar or objectionable language at Hope, Calvin and most of the MIAA is more "socially acceptable" at De Pauw.   Some students at De Pauw avoid attending games because they would rather not hear the trash.  The administration at De Pauw has a wide variety of means to end offensive behavior.  You can repeatedly play the canned NCAA message on sportmanship or you can physically go the announcers table, and make the announcement yourself as an offical of De Pauw.  You can eject abusive fans one at a time or as a group.  The few times I've seen a fan ejected at an MIAA game it has had a very sobering effect on the entire crowd, and offensive conduct ceased.  Apparently the isolated attempts at discipling any De Pauw students were done rather privately, and had little impact on the entire crowd.   De Pauw U. prides itself on it's supposed high academic standards, and the success of some of it's grads.  One poster thinks it is great the high % of students involved in "greek" activities, but at what expense?   Perhaps the norm at De Pauw is for the administration to do litle to rein in any negative behavior on the part of students?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 15, 2006, 03:55:34 pm
Do those kind of things happen in the MIAA ever - yes.  In my experience it has happened typically by individuals - some of whom were removed from the gym.  The only time I can remember a student section saying anything like that was the Calvin students at a Hope / Calvin mens game.  In that instance, it was chanted maybe twice before the head coach at Calvin put a stop to it.  I think the coach has the ability to stop it. 





(sigh)




The only time someone's ever said any profanity is Calvin students.  Yup...



I which I was at this game.  I've never seen any people so outraged over students. 




Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 15, 2006, 04:06:14 pm
Do those kind of things happen in the MIAA ever - yes.  In my experience it has happened typically by individuals - some of whom were removed from the gym.  The only time I can remember a student section saying anything like that was the Calvin students at a Hope / Calvin mens game.  In that instance, it was chanted maybe twice before the head coach at Calvin put a stop to it.  I think the coach has the ability to stop it. 





(sigh)




The only time someone's ever said any profanity is Calvin students.  Yup...



I which I was at this game.  I've never seen any people so outraged over students. 


Hey, these DePauw fans (adults and students) made Kzoo fans of years past look tame!   ;)    And no, I don't think the original poster intended to imply that it only ever happened at Calvin.  But really, nowadays it rarely happens in any MIAA school, except this year, and that happened to be Calvin students (at least in the repetoire of games I attended).  The point was actually a compliment -- Calvin's coach realized a bad thing, and put a stop to it right away.

At any rate, how 'bout we drop it now?  It happened, it was out of hand compared with what we've grown accustomed to, and its over.  If that's the way school's in "the real world" function, then fine.  But those who take offense are allowed to let their feelings be known. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornet fan on March 15, 2006, 04:18:48 pm
Perfect timing...

Quote

Hey, these DePauw fans (adults and students) made Kzoo fans of years past look tame! ;)
 
Quote

I had to come over from the Men's Board at Cowboy J's request...

As an MIAA fan, it does happen (beyond Calvin), and when it does, the Game Administraors at ALL sites (Hope, Calvin, Adrian, Albion, Alma, and yes even Kalamazoo and Olivet) put it to an end.

I can go on and on about what Hope fans have done over the years that has crossed the line, but why?  Why would I bring up the fact that Hope Students have called K students "F#ggots?"  Why would I bring up the fact that after a heated Hope/K game, a Hope fan called a K Coach a "N!gger?"  Is it apalling, yes.  Is it isolated, yes.  Hope fans are not perfect, but burying the group because of the actions of 10% of the population is unnecessary.

I was not there, it sounds out of line.  But cut these people some slack...

Quote

At any rate, how 'bout we drop it now? It happened, it was out of hand compared with what we've grown accustomed to, and its over. If that's the way school's in "the real world" function, then fine. But those who take offense are allowed to let their feelings be known.
Quote

I could not agree more...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornet fan on March 15, 2006, 04:21:21 pm
Oh yeah, good luck to the Flying Dutch in the Final 4...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 15, 2006, 04:21:39 pm
While I originally intended to stay out of this thread, I decided to offer a different perspective since I broadcasted the games at DePauw for NCAA Sports this weekend.

My experience was a pleasant one, thanks largely to the efforts of DePauw’s Sports Information Director and his crew.  They provided very professional support, which I appreciated.

While I wasn’t close enough to the student section to discern what they were chanting most of the time, I was impressed with the turnout.  The students filled the Lilly Center on Friday night despite it being the beginning of spring break.  From experiences elsewhere, I know that’s not a given.

I was impressed at the men’s basketball team painting their chests up in support of the women.  It’s hard to imagine J.J. Redick or Rudy Gay doing that in Division I.  The band did a fantastic job (always a fan of bands doing renditions of Kansas songs), adding to the atmosphere.

As for the students, I did hear the BS chant but didn’t think too much about it.  It’s fairly commonplace at sporting event, which doesn’t make it right, but might explain why I didn’t have much of a reaction to it.  From my admittedly isolated vantage point, I enjoyed the DePauw students’ creative outfits which included a caveman, a slice of pizza and characters from Peter Pan.  Sounds like the beginning of a “walked into a bar” joke.

And I was impressed by the Hope fans on Saturday who filled the gym and had a “Let’s Go Hope” chant going 90 minutes before the tip.  While I may’ve missed some of the unsavory moments, I was impressed with the crowd.

That’s not meant as dispersion toward the Hope fans on here.  I wouldn’t try to dispute the veracity of their complaints.  But I thought it might be good to offer a different perspective.

To echo the closing sentiments of the past two messages, let us "Carry on my wayward sons.  There'll be peace when we are done.  Lay our weary heads to rest.  Don't we cry no more." :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2006, 04:58:13 pm
I agree. Not to condone the bull-s*** chant, but it is very pervasive. It's unfair to paint DePauw as an outlier on that issue.

I find it less troublesome than the "HEY! YOU SUCK!" chant that I heard probably 20 times this past weekend. I wonder if that will end up on Outside the Lines tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DPULefty22 on March 15, 2006, 05:50:35 pm
Tiger fan here.

Let me make this abundantly clear: I do NOT condone the use of profanity by a student section (I consider the 'bull-(bleep)' chant an exception to that rule, as it is a tradition at just about every sporting event I've ever been to, high school, college, and pro alike). While I consider heckling to be acceptable under certain circumstances (as long as it's not profane - the 'AIR-BALL' chant is a perfect example, so is a 'you can't do that!' after a foul), there are lines that you have to be careful not to cross. I understand this. So do all DePauw students.

But when a smattering (this is the operative word here) of fans use the f-word in one chant and are then told to stop, it's an unfortunate isolated incident. It is NOT reflective of the DePauw student section and student body as a whole, and it does NOT reflect a passive attitude from school administration - in fact, it's quite the opposite.

This is the only incident of excessive profanity that I can remember. I went back and listened to our school's broadcast of the game, in which the 'bull-(bleep)' chant is clearly audible and the 'you (bleeped) up' chant is vaguely audible. I do not once hear anything else that could even remotely be considered offensive that was orchestrated as a chant by the DePauw student section. Anyone who claims that there were chants of 'Wh*re' during the game is a liar. (So is anyone who says that DePauw parents were cursing at their own players or coaches.)

Look, I'm sorry you guys didn't get to host the regional. Greencastle happened to make more geographic sense than Holland. Besides, it wasn't like the Tigers weren't a one-loss team coming into the weekend or anything... geez. All of these complaints reek of sour grapes. But hey, prove me wrong.

If a 'bull-(bleep)' chant offends you so greatly, or an 'air-ball' chant makes you think that some poor player might get their feelings hurt... well, don't go on the road anymore. Stay within the idyllic Pleasantville that you believe the MIAA cheering sections to be, where everyone joins hands to sing Kumbaya before sharing postgame tea and crumpets.

Hope your trip to the Neal Fieldhouse, a.k.a. "the real world, not some idealized wonderland where Hope College is respected as a beacon of all that is good and just", was educational.

Go Scranton!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on March 15, 2006, 06:29:20 pm
Anyone who claims that there were chants of 'Wh*re' during the game is a liar. (So is anyone who says that DePauw parents were cursing at their own players or coaches.)

                                Box Score (Final)
                            Hope vs DePauw (3/11/06)
Site: Neal Fieldhouse; Greencastle, Indiana  Attendance: 2000


It would take a lot of ears to hear 1999 other people in the arena for the ENTIRE game!
 :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 15, 2006, 07:08:55 pm


Go Scranton!

Vinegar calling our grapes sour!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 15, 2006, 07:35:50 pm
good luck hope friday night beat scranton 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2006, 09:23:37 pm
Here I thought I was ready to just be done with all of this - as several others have mentioned.

Anyone who claims that there were chants of 'Wh*re' during the game is a liar. (So is anyone who says that DePauw parents were cursing at their own players or coaches.)

OH really?  Where were you sitting?  If you would like to provide a pictoral directory of the parents, I would be glad to point out the specific offenders.  Yes, I am actually that sure of what I heard and who said it.

Look, I'm sorry you guys didn't get to host the regional.

We're not all that sorry you hosted, considering the outcome.

If a 'bull-(bleep)' chant offends you so greatly, or an 'air-ball' chant makes you think that some poor player might get their feelings hurt... well, don't go on the road anymore.

The only thing that offends me (even more than what actually happened at the game) is the way every DePauw poster treis to defend it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 15, 2006, 09:26:52 pm
To echo the closing sentiments of the past two messages, let us "Carry on my wayward sons.  There'll be peace when we are done.  Lay our weary heads to rest.  Don't we cry no more." :)

Talk about small world - Civic Minded's uncle was the recording engineer for Kansas - and even has the gold record to prove it . 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 15, 2006, 09:48:36 pm
The Dew Crew are all perfect little angels, and their cheers are just so amazing and creative.  Shame on the Knight Club and DePauw for not being followers of the amazing Dew Crew.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 15, 2006, 09:58:05 pm
I'm a Hope fan, I was at DePauw on Saturday...

Enough is enough already.  Let's move on.

And may I suggest Massachusetts as a good place to move on to?  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 15, 2006, 10:01:45 pm
The Dew Crew are all perfect little angels, and their cheers are just so amazing and creative.  Shame on the Knight Club and DePauw for not being followers of the amazing Dew Crew.

That is about the most wha wha, babiest thing, I have ever read on this site. Are you kidding me? Who said anything about angels? Go away dude...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 15, 2006, 10:50:10 pm
Come on man, I was just giving the Dew Crew praises.  I mean, that fake banner thing was just breathe taking.  Thanks for the negative karma though.  Keep it comin'!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roughrider on March 15, 2006, 10:51:40 pm
Congratulations to the Hope Flying Dutch on an outstanding season!   :)
Good luck in Springfield!   :)

Roughrider
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 15, 2006, 11:30:30 pm
Come on man, I was just giving the Dew Crew praises.  I mean, that fake banner thing was just breathe taking.  Thanks for the negative karma though.  Keep it comin'!

The fake banner was classic.. and I didn't give you negative karma, but if you like...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornetiger on March 16, 2006, 01:02:38 am
One poster thinks it is great the high % of students involved in "greek" activities, but at what expense?   

If I'm thinking correctly I get the impression you're replying to my post....I didn't  mean that DePauw's greek population was "great" by any means. I was just mentioning it in the discussion about attendance and why there aren't more people at Friday night Lady Tiger home games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornetiger on March 16, 2006, 01:06:30 am
The band did a fantastic job (always a fan of bands doing renditions of Kansas songs), adding to the atmosphere.

If I could, I'd give a karma point for that.  :) :D ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 16, 2006, 07:12:09 am
One poster thinks it is great the high % of students involved in "greek" activities, but at what expense?   

If I'm thinking correctly I get the impression you're replying to my post....I didn't  mean that DePauw's greek population was "great" by any means. I was just mentioning it in the discussion about attendance and why there aren't more people at Friday night Lady Tiger home games.

My assumption is that people are not at women's games for the same reason that no one goes to women's games across the country - most people do not care.  You do not have to defend your attendance.  When the tourney came and interest went up, you guys showed up in full force.  That's awesome. 

My only point with attendance was that it may be that part of the reaction to fan reaction was the difference between the men's game and the women's.  If it was a men's student section, they may not see the same line as Hope fans thought there should have been at a women's game.  As I have stated, I think BS is a pretty classless chant but I think I would have ignored it at a men's game because it is prevelant (doesn't make it right) but at a women's game it would have been very disjointing.  Perhaps that is some of the reaction.


Also, if I am not correct, FDF brought his family with him.  That could also a big difference in mindsets between DePauw fans and those from Holland.  The MIAA is very family friendly.  At Hope games, there will be children as young as 2 being allowed to play between the stands.  The school and other schools in the conference demand it so that it can be good entertainment for a number of different age groups.  Perhaps DePauw does not have that same type of interaction with their communities and other fans.  Perhaps it is just for college students and people in Greencastle just know not to go, where as Hope fans were not given the memo ahead of time. 

Again, some of this could simply be a difference in fan culture in the two areas.  Not necessarily defending this, just pointing out where I see the difference in opinions...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: foul_language on March 16, 2006, 10:34:55 am
I guess the (high school) coach's pep talk athat included the following would not fly at Hope, although DePauw might appreciate it:

There is no 'I' in 'team', but there is a 'U' in 'suck.'

The best way to shut up a crowd, I've found, is to beat its team. Sounds like Hope did that; get past it. All that talk, talk, talk (write, write, write) is only encouraging people. Get outraged at things that matter...

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 16, 2006, 10:55:26 am
fl:  Your parents must be very proud.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 16, 2006, 11:04:01 am
tniem - we gonna see you in Springfield?  We're leaving today as soon as school gets out, but we're gonna stop halfway or so.  Hope to see you there tomorrow.

GO HOPE!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on March 16, 2006, 11:26:47 am
Good Luck, ladies! I'd be there if I could  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornetiger on March 16, 2006, 11:39:57 am
Quote

Again, some of this could simply be a difference in fan culture in the two areas.  Not necessarily defending this, just pointing out where I see the difference in opinions...

Agreed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 16, 2006, 11:47:46 am
horne,

Now that you are back on... I wanted to apologize to you about taking the brunt of my frustration. You were just in a line of DePauw posters seemingly defending what happened.

Your post was far from the most grievous, and shouldn't have received my fury as such. Some of your fellow brethren on the other hand were not nearly as kind as your "other" words of encouragement. They should take a cue from you.

Again... sorry.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: foul_language on March 16, 2006, 12:40:48 pm
Quote
Your parents must be very proud

MY parents or the parents of the players? Here's the point: no one was traumatized. My daughter (player) recounted the talk, and we both laughed. It certainly was an attention-getter, it relieved some frustration on the coach's part, and they got on with the game. I can't remember if they won or lost and, in the end, it doesn't matter. They played, they got chewed on, they lived to play again.

I guess the thing that astounds me in this Hope-DePauw conversation is the venom of the participants--on both sides, apparently. I can take a lot more from students than I can from parents. Student fans don't have all their synapses firing yet, so I can excuse more uncivilized behavior from them than I can from parents. We're the role models, so getting into a fight on a board over what happened in the stands in a gymnasium five days ago seems counterproductive.

And now I'm doing it, and I wasn't even there.

How many more karma points do I get to lose on that one? I should take a few from myself just for dragging this out.

Good luck to all the teams left in competition. I hope all the games are well-contested, and I hope players and fans, alike, realize what a great thing it is to get to the final four, win or lose.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 16, 2006, 01:10:34 pm
Anyone else hopping on the bus heading out from Hope tonight? I'll be there ready to head over to Springfield. Since we won't be in Holland, everyone practice your "real world" chants tonight.  :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 16, 2006, 01:17:08 pm
Good one Andy!!  We'll see you in Springfield
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowboy J on March 16, 2006, 03:38:58 pm
Traveling made easier for Flying Dutch fans...

Leave your microscopes and your binoculars and your notepads behind. Although small and easy to pack, go without the hearing aids this time, too. Just know going in, as has been the case all year, you are far better than any of the other teams' fans who will be in attendance at this weekend's games in Springfield. 

What do you think, should the judge's robes be left in the chambers, too? I tend to think so. Although there will be plenty of things you can call the other teams' fans on, why not just sit (with perfect posture) and enjoy the games and your team? In cases where the other fans don't act Hope-like, maybe just forgive them, for they may know not what they do. Or, they may not have a well-organized policy in place to curb their behaviors to the extent that your school does. Take this as yet another opportunity to thank God you're a Flying Dutch fan.

With more room in the suitcase, might I suggest a few things: extra packages of lozenges - I can only imagine how constant chants of "Go Hope Go!" and "Good call ref!" might play tricks with the throat; more lotion - Hope fans' hands must get sore and chapped with all of the clapping for their fellow fans, the officials and, oh yeah, their players; muscle relaxants - maybe it's just me, but if I smiled at my team as much as you probably do yours, not to mention all of the frowns at the opponents' fans, I'd need a break at the end of the day. Oh, and if there's room, maybe an extra set of pom pons. Have a Dew Crew coach check to make sure they're legal, though (which I know they'd be on top of). And, for goodness sakes, do not obstruct the view of the Flying Dutch fans behind you.

It goes without saying, be sure to take your perfect cheers with you, too. It's one of the things you're most known for, and all those present will be better for having heard them. While the perfect cheers are great, I tend to think your ability to judge others, and quickly, is your greatest "strength." Not to mention the art of hearing only what you want to hear. Flying Dutch fans ... the talents abound.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hornetiger on March 16, 2006, 07:20:41 pm
horne,

Now that you are back on... I wanted to apologize to you about taking the brunt of my frustration. You were just in a line of DePauw posters seemingly defending what happened.

Your post was far from the most grievous, and shouldn't have received my fury as such. Some of your fellow brethren on the other hand were not nearly as kind as your "other" words of encouragement. They should take a cue from you.

Again... sorry.

No problems...everybody gets caught up in the heat of the moment, especially after a big stakes game like that. Heck, I feel like an @$$ looking back at my original post.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowboy J on March 16, 2006, 08:47:00 pm
Don't be afraid to stick up for yourself, hornetiger. The only reason you got the belated apology from NW Hope Fan is that you have been completely agreeable in your recent posts. Even when you shouldn't be, in my opinion. As far as your initial post goes, you couldn't have been much nicer. Just look at NW Hope Fan's track record. You say a little nothing, and you're told you should be "embarrassed." A recent poster said something against NWHF's way of thinking, and that person was told to "Go home, dude."

What none of these people seem to want to hear is that we are not defending some of the things that were said last weekend. We are, however, defending ourselves from the barrage of judgments that have followed. While it is against the NCAA's code of conduct, if you will, to swear and to single out people with negative comments, what these certain Hope fans have done to blacken DePauw's name is no better. And quite possibly worse.

Some have called for this issue to die, especially after counterpoints have been offered to show the other side. It will be a long time before I can let this one go. As much as the Hope fans might feel wronged for what they heard at last weekend's game(s), DePauw people have a distinct right to feel wronged, too. We're much, much, much, much better than how they have portrayed us. I guess the important thing is for us, and the neutral readers of these posts, to realize this. After all, it's become quite obvious there's no way to get through to them.

We, the people of DePauw, have never claimed to be perfect. Now that some of these Hope fans have spoken for their group, however, they should realize they are the torch bearers for proper conduct at athletic contests. So, cheer for your teams ... nothing more, nothing less. The eyes of the Division III world will be upon you.

Just so we all know, you can't say things against the other team, their fans or the refs, right? Only pro-Flying Dutch things.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2006, 11:05:05 am
fl:  Sorry didn't realize you were a proud parent by your name.  In that case your daughter must be very embarassed!
Cowboy J:  Your village just called, and they would like for you to come back home.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 11:08:33 am
fl:  Sorry didn't realize you were a proud parent by your name.  In that case your daughter must bee very embarassed!
Cowboy J:  Your village just called, and they would like for you to come back home.

Ibid

A recent poster said something against NWHF's way of thinking, and that person was told to "Go home, dude."


And it was... "Go AWAY dude."
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: foul_language on March 17, 2006, 12:25:21 pm
Quote
fl:  Sorry didn't realize you were a proud parent by your name.  In that case your daughter must bee very embarassed!

Actually, no. She has a sense of humor. She's fully aware that people say things that shouldn't be taken literally; that people say things in the heat of the moment that they wouldn't say under ordinary circumstances. She knows that the dynamics of a fierce competition sometimes brings on a frenzy and, on those occasions, things are sometimes said or done that shouldn't be (or bee, if you prefer).

She's smart enough to know that the person or people probably don't behave like that all the time. She's wise beyond her years in knowing that face value is too shallow to take as permanent impression. She also knows that the best way to defuse a bad situation is not to make it worse and not to let it evoke a bigger than necessary reaction. (Here I am, Pot, call me black)

So, all in all, she's pretty level-headed, and I suspect she has a great future. I hope she gets the opportunity to play in a final four sometime, and that I get the opportunity to face DePauw fans, Hope fans, all kinds of quality fans, and that in the heat of competition, I don't miss what's happening on the floor while I get caught up in what's happening in the stands.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 01:15:03 pm
in the heat of competition, I don't miss what's happening on the floor while I get caught up in what's happening in the stands.

Point taken, but I don't think anyone missed Hope beating DePauw by 16.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: foul_language on March 17, 2006, 01:48:28 pm
Quote
...I don't think anyone missed Hope beating DePauw by 16

Have a great couple of games this weekend! Talk to you on the flip side
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2006, 03:21:42 pm
fl:  Sorry didn't realize you were a proud parent by your name.  In that case your daughter must bee very embarassed!
Cowboy J:  Your village just called, and they would like for you to come back home.

Consider yourself high fived - from FDF and CM - who are about to leave their hotel in Springfield and head over to the games.

Will post our thoughts on the games later tonight.

GO HOPE
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 17, 2006, 03:31:24 pm
GOOD LUCK TONIGHT GO   HOPE
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2006, 03:44:03 pm
FDF & Cm:  Hope you enjoyed the games.  I got a few cool ones by my side, the Dell all warmed up, and have the set on D-1.  What a weekend.  Hopefully you will have good news to share on your next post.  Thanks for the + karma.
NWDF:  If I didn't already say it, congrats on reaching the milestone.  I enjoy your perspective.
I keep asking myslf, what would I think if my mother used "foul_language" to identify herself?  Then I come back to my senses, and realize my good Dutch mother had more class than that!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: foul_language on March 17, 2006, 03:48:55 pm
Quote
I keep asking myslf, what would I think if my mother used "foul_language" to identify herself?  Then I come back to my senses, and realize my good Dutch mother had more class than that!

Ah. Beauty is obviously in the eye of the beholder. "Foul" actually refers to those actions for which basketball players are penalized. It grew out of a conversation about what was and wasn't called during games. Why would you assume otherwise? Perception is a fickle thing, isn't it? Yours a little lower than others.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2006, 04:03:52 pm
f_l lets see:  To quote from several pages ago:  There is no I in 'team, but there is a 'U' in 'suck.  That plus a spirited defense of the language used by persons from DP would lead most people to believe you lack class.  Nice try on justifying  your name, but I'm not buying.  Greencastle hasn't called so I guess it is safe to assume you never left.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: foul_language on March 17, 2006, 04:57:59 pm
Therefore you are without excuse, every man of you who passes judgment, for in that you judge one another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 05:13:59 pm
NWDF:  If I didn't already say it, congrats on reaching the milestone.  I enjoy your perspective.
I keep asking myslf, what would I think if my mother used "foul_language" to identify herself?  Then I come back to my senses, and realize my good Dutch mother had more class than that!

Thanks. I get a little worked up about things sometimes, but don't we all. I wish I had more to post, but being so far away after so many years in Holland makes that difficult. I had plans on flying out for the H/C game at the new facility, but that fell through, and hoped that I would be making a trip this weekend to Salem, but alas...

I gave you some K, by the way...

-Peace!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2006, 05:40:09 pm
NWHF:  Over the years I have spent time away from W. MI myself.  The De Vos is a great facility.  You will be impressed after all the years in the Civic.  It is going to take 2 great games for the women to come back to W. MI. happy.  S. Maine didn't look like they had many weaknesses.  Thanks for the karma.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 05:46:12 pm
My video just pooped out... how about you?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 05:49:52 pm
NWHF:  Over the years I have spent time away from W. MI myself. 

Difference is... we'll never go back (to live that is). We went back in the spring last year for a memorial service, and thought about heading out this spring as well. Maybe I'll have Ray or Glen show me around the new building then. I still hope to make it back for a game one of these days, but in the mean time I'll have to enjoy the satellite broadcast.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 06:00:20 pm
My video just pooped out... how about you?

All better now!  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 06:43:56 pm
What is this world coming to??? Just heard the BS chant from the Scranton fans...  >:(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 17, 2006, 06:55:02 pm
Halftime, Hope by 1 - 27-26.

The video is really good.  :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 17, 2006, 06:55:28 pm
Well after minutes of trying to get the video and audio links to work on this site without success............it suddenly dawned on me to just turn on WHTC.

Sounds like an exciting first half with a series of runs by both teams.

Go Dutch!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 17, 2006, 06:56:01 pm

The video is really good.  :o

I'll take your word for it.  >:(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 17, 2006, 07:06:24 pm
Here's a piece of St. Patrick's day trivia.

The color Orange in the Irish flag represents the Protestant side Ireland.  Why Orange for the Protestants..........

 William of Orange from the Netherlands took up the fight against the Catholic King of England. 

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 17, 2006, 07:08:09 pm

The video is really good.  :o

I'll take your word for it.  >:(

I'm having trouble with the video, too, sac.  WHTC's audio feed is working fine, though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 07:39:35 pm
I've had issues with video, but right now it looks great!  ;D

The camera work could be a little better, but I shouldn't complain...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 07:46:25 pm
64-60 Witt... if you are interested.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 17, 2006, 07:52:51 pm
64-60 Witt... if you are interested.

Thanks!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 17, 2006, 07:54:11 pm
Way to go Dutch ..........woooohooooo. ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: monsoon on March 17, 2006, 07:54:28 pm
Hope wins!  Hope wins!  59-56
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2006, 08:06:50 pm
Way to go Dutch... Bring home another banner!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roughrider on March 17, 2006, 08:16:38 pm
Congrats to the Hope Flying Dutch on a great semi-final win at Springfield.   :)

Good luck tomorrow.   :)

Roughrider
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 17, 2006, 08:23:16 pm
way to go hope girls  bring home the trophy and the flag   for the new arena go hope saturday
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Josh Bowerman on March 17, 2006, 08:59:41 pm
Great fan support, exciting game.  Congrats to Hope on a well-deserved win.  Good luck against USM tomorrow, and don't forget to check out the photo galleries when you get back to Holland.

Oh, I almost forgot.  Bria Ebels may be one of the best DIII women's player I have ever seen.  She's definitely a DI-calibre player, and really exciting to watch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2006, 10:34:26 pm
Way to go flying Dutch.  Gosh pulling for the orange and blue can almost be as hard on the heart as maroon and gold.  Was a bit nervous at the half.  I wasn't going to comment on the langage.  Don't want my new best friend f_l quoting anymore scripture!!
S. Maine looked like a very well coached, and capable team.  I think the Flying Dutch have the team to handle them as long as they keep the turnovers down.  Also need to hit the ones at the stripe.
No problem with the video at anytime.  New computer with Media package and broadband may have helped.  We get spoiled watching D1 ballgames.  Let's just be thankful we get what we get on the video feed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 17, 2006, 10:37:53 pm
Back in the hotel room after a nice dinner (following getting lost in Springfield trying to get back to our hotel).

The arena is so-so - jam packed, hotter then heck, and there is almost 0 leg room in the bleachers.  Not very comfortable when you've just come 800 miles in the car - but then a win in the semi's makes all pain disappear.

Hope played inspired defense, and I think did a great job holding #12 to 16 points or so - only 2 at the half.  The offense seemed to struggle, but just like she has done for four years, Bria took over when it mattered most.  She is an unbelievable player, and I think the best basketball athlete in the entire MIAA - men included.    Her quickness alone changes games.

In the first game, Southern Maine looked ready to blow-out HS, but the Cowgirls fought back to make it a real game.  Tomorrows games should be great.

TRIVIA - Hope College Basketball (M or W) is now 4-0 in national semi-finals!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 17, 2006, 10:51:36 pm
FDF: Hard to tell much about the facility from the video feed.  It did look like you were packed in there pretty tight.  The announcers commented how full the place was when Hope and Scranton fans really started showing up.  Not surprised to hear it was warm also.  It will be interesting to see how Hope does tomorrow.  Like the opening page says, they have already beat 2,3,4,10, and 17 to get where they are.  Now is not the time to get worried.
You are right about Bria E.  She definitely was most impressive player there today.  I know she did the same thing to Calvin about 3 times this year.  I think the D3hoops.com people are eating just a little crow for the lack of respect the Flying Dutch, and the entire MIAA have gotten this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 17, 2006, 11:00:22 pm
Well, the heartstoppers continue!   ;D

First of all, wish you were here Sac and hope1!  But heck, I'm just glad to be here myself, since that nasty cough nearly had me in the hospital.

Springfield, Springfield...the birthplace of basketball.  The city violently opposed to street signs.  What a convoluted, confusing mess.  Ah well, you get used to it after a while.  From my hotel I can see the multi-colored glow of a giant half-dome -- the Basketball Hall of Fame.  Don't know if we'll venuture over there or not, but it sure is impressive from the outside.

Great game by the Dutch.  Really, they are just amazing this year.  Even with a very talented Scranton team, they are able to create open looks, disrupt their opponent's game, and cause turnovers with nearly every opportunity.  Tonight it was a combination of Bria's speed and agility, and Megan's uncanny sense of awareness that kept them going.  A time or two it seemed that they forgot that they were a team, but quickly got back into the flow that has brought them so far this year.  Can't wait until tomorrow!

As to the fans (you know you're all curious!)  ;) :  No complaints here.  The team from Texas was well represented, with probably about 350 fans.  Their biggest "attraction" was that their fans who were in body paint in their team colors of purple and gold were....girls!  Yup, shorts, sports bras, and paint.  They were enthusiastic, bordering on Ellen Wood loud (you know what I mean), and fun.  Same for the fans from USM and Scranton.  Yes, there was one "B.S." cheer from the Scranton crowd early in the game, priest and all (no, I don't know if he joined in <grin>), but it didn't happen after that.  It was all really positive from all of the team's fans.  In fact, it was kind of odd.  Even in situations where fans of all types would have taken advantage (i.e. "airball" shots), there really wasn't much heart in it from any side.  It was as if, at this level, this close to the championship game, that no one had the heart to belittle the players.  I will admit that I gave a weak "they're not playing" when a Scranton player threw the ball out of bounds, but it just didn't feel right to "pick on" someone playing so hard.

At any rate, it was a good time in Springfield, topped off by a cool beverage at the local pub.  Here's to a great tomorrow!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 18, 2006, 12:44:04 am
Great win for the ladies!  They were able to pull through with a close win over Scranton.  One more huddle to clear, for the hardware....up next in the championship game the Flying Dutch have to face the always dangerous Southern Maine.  Should be quite a game.  Lets Go Hope! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 18, 2006, 07:19:44 am
FDF AND CIVIC    WE COULD SEE YOU ON TV   

 GO HOPE  TODAY
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 18, 2006, 07:25:57 am
FDF AND CIVIC WE COULD SEE YOU ON TV

 GO HOPE TODAY

But could you see the Painted Ladies from Texas? :D    ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 18, 2006, 08:36:28 am
Here's to HOPEing the Lady Dutch take home another banner today. The only bad thing about them winning another championship is that they would then be able to honestly chant back to Calvin next year "We've got extras."  ;) :D ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: samitysse on March 18, 2006, 08:37:24 am
 go hope today
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Josh Bowerman on March 18, 2006, 09:45:49 am
Quote

But could you see the Painted Ladies from Texas? :D    ;)
Quote

They weren't from Texas.  I talked to them, and found out they were women's basketball players from Boston U.  Evidently, there is some connection between their coaching staff and the HSU staff, though I didn't ever quite find out what.

They certainly were creative, though, eh?   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2006, 10:10:54 am
Quote

But could you see the Painted Ladies from Texas? :D    ;)
Quote

They weren't from Texas.  I talked to them, and found out they were women's basketball players from Boston U.  Evidently, there is some connection between their coaching staff and the HSU staff, though I didn't ever quite find out what.

They certainly were creative, though, eh?   :)

Josh, Kathryn Otwell, (you remember Kathryn, the former HSU Kodak All-American from the 2000 Elite 8 ), is now an assistant from at Boston University.

It just might start a trend...

March Madness!!! Painted Ladies Gone Wild!    :o  ::)  :-X   8)  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Josh Bowerman on March 18, 2006, 10:22:38 am
Might be something to look forward to, Ralph!   8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hopefan on March 18, 2006, 01:57:31 pm
Maybe everyone already knew it, but the women's championship game is also on CSTV , found on channel 610 on Direct TV, listed at 2:00 Central, 3:00 Eastern - I knew the men's game was on, but only now recognized the women's game is also on.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 18, 2006, 03:50:54 pm
Hope by 3 at the half - 33-30.  Wish we had the video feed again. :\'(


(And I cannot use the cry smilie because the javascript doesn't work on a mac and I cannot type in this one like the other faces - perhaps I just cannot figure out the right combo)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dren on March 18, 2006, 04:05:14 pm
Hope by 3 at the half - 33-30.  Wish we had the video feed again. :\'(


(And I cannot use the cry smilie because the javascript doesn't work on a mac and I cannot type in this one like the other faces - perhaps I just cannot figure out the right combo)

yeah... whoever said "internet video killed the internet radio star" was right...  : ' (   :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 18, 2006, 04:23:00 pm
We were very spoiled yesterday. But considering they only showed the 3rd place game today, I'm glad we were not able to watch the dutch today!  ;) :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dren on March 18, 2006, 04:42:03 pm
Hope up 55-50 4mins to go
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 18, 2006, 04:48:49 pm
Hope by 10.  The hay is in the barn!!!
Way to go Dutch. 
Welcome to the double banner club
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 18, 2006, 04:53:45 pm
Hey..........the ladies are going to do it!    ;D 8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bulldogalum on March 18, 2006, 04:54:56 pm
Things are looking good for the Flying Dutch
 ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 18, 2006, 04:55:19 pm
Win a banner, and beat # 17, 10, 4, 3, 2, & #1.  They should make a movie about this.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bulldogalum on March 18, 2006, 04:57:54 pm
That has got to be about the toughest road ever in a postseason tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 18, 2006, 04:58:54 pm
We're # 1, and this is our house.  Nice to hear.  Lots of nice words from the announcers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 18, 2006, 04:59:08 pm
Win a banner, and beat # 17, 10, 4, 3, 2, & #1.  They should make a movie about this.

That really is incredible.

Way to go ladies. 8) ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 18, 2006, 05:00:26 pm
Huge props to Albionbritfan who picked this back in February I believe.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 18, 2006, 05:03:47 pm
Hope Wins!!!

WOOOOHOOOO!  :D :D :D

Congrats Lady Dutch! Way to do Hope and the MIAA proud!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 18, 2006, 05:08:36 pm
So we get a second banner!  ;D

Congrats Flying Dutch!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Roughrider on March 18, 2006, 05:09:35 pm
Congratulations to the Hope Flying Dutch, 2006 NCAA Division III Women's Basketball National Champions.   :)

Way to go, ladies!!   :)

Roughrider
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeGirl on March 18, 2006, 05:10:56 pm
WAY TO GO DUTCH!  EXCELLENT PLAYING AND WELL DESERVED!!!!

The local newspapers this morning said that watching Bria Ebels play alone is worth the cost of admission.  

Congrats to Brian Morehouse on Coach of the Year.  
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 18, 2006, 05:19:32 pm
hope    wins the    naional championship    today   


maybe a celberation sunday when the team gets back  go hope it is alsome

1 more banner to hang up
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: bulldogalum on March 18, 2006, 05:38:24 pm
Congrats to the Hope women.  Great season, and a wonderful run through the playoffs on the road!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: silent_observer on March 18, 2006, 05:44:45 pm
Congrats Hope on a much deserved championship!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 18, 2006, 06:03:36 pm
A great win for the Dutch.  A good plug for the MIAA.  Way to go!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 18, 2006, 06:14:58 pm
No doubt who had the best D3 women's team this year.  You could feel it about 5 minutes into the second half that Hope wanted this game, and would not be denied.  Great greeat win for a fine team.
Enjoy the party, and hanging the banner.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 18, 2006, 07:11:39 pm
Congratulations to Hope in joining Stevens Point, Trinity, and Milliken in beating Washington University and keeping them out of the Final Four on the way to the Division III Championship.

Perhaps, unlike those three and Wilmington, they'll return to the tournament to defend their title.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on March 18, 2006, 08:33:57 pm
The Hope women's radio announcer is what defines a homer.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 18, 2006, 09:27:02 pm
Congratulations to the Lady Dutch on their new banner. Now you do have extras.    ;) :D ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 18, 2006, 10:47:43 pm
I also would like to congratulate the Hope Flying Dutch on a well played season, topped off by winning the NCAA DIII National Championship.  I knew they would pull through.  They played magnificently all season long.  I applaud the ladies for their efforts.   8) ;D 

   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dutchfan on March 19, 2006, 01:43:48 am
ongrats to the Women on winning the national championship and Congrats to Bri on the MVP.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 19, 2006, 06:43:58 am
Congrats to the Flying Dutch on an outstanding season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 19, 2006, 08:28:20 am
Just getting ready to hit the road for home - I guess I slept last night, but still on cloud nine.  That was an absolutely amazing day! - I just saw the score go by on the ESPN ticker!!! - There is nothing that compares to cheering your team to a national championship.  What a GREAT team.  The Coach of Southern Maine was quoted as saying that this is the best DIII team he has seen in a long time, and one he feels could beat some DI teams.  I agree.

The run this team made is just amazing!  Not only beating numbers 1,2,3,4,10, and 17, but also beating 5 D3hoops all-Americans.  I gotta believe that is the most impressive run ever.

The fans were awesome again.  The students even got us old guys to do the stretching with them in pre-game, we did the "who-cares" and more.  The SMU fans were chanting "we're #1" about 20 minutes before the game, and it was really sweet to be a ble to echo that back to them about 2 hours later.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 19, 2006, 09:24:23 am
The Hope women's radio announcer is what defines a homer.

Yeah, he is about unbearable to listen to at times.  He is yelling so much that I cannot even understand if something good or bad happened.  You need rewind.  Usually he has done the women's games and the commentator has done the men's (when the station has run both games in an evening).  It would have been nice to have the usual, more even keel announcer.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 19, 2006, 10:53:18 am
(http://i1.tinypic.com/rsbdif.jpg)

I definitely think you'd be hard pressed to find a more difficult road any men's or women's D3 team has taken to a national title. In their last 4 games, they beat 1-4 in the last D3hoops poll. That also meant they beat every single team with any first place votes in that poll. They won 0 games at their shiny new home court advantage. One of those top 4 was beaten in their home gym, and the last two were certainly located closer to the arena in Massachusetts than Hope. While in Springfield, someone found an NCAA paper previewing the upcoming tourney which mentioned 5 potential contenders to watch in both the men's and women's brackets: one of those contenders on the women's side is still standing after beating the other 4 in consecutive games. The Flying Dutch must feel like they're ready for anyone else that could possibly be thrown at them, if there were any contenders left.

Scranton and USM brought two extremely tough teams out there. I'm surprised that Marble, Myles, and Mellody were not all first team AAs. Good fans and great games all weekend. What a way to end the season.

For those that didn't get to make it, see how it all ended:
http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=rsaseh
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 19, 2006, 12:45:32 pm
that was cool   


the team lands at tulip city airport at  2.30  today   lets go out and greet them
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 19, 2006, 01:04:34 pm
A little tidbit............Hope's largest deficit during the tournament against said teams was 4 points.

Four!

Thats awesome.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 19, 2006, 01:07:47 pm
Cool video Andersdy, thanks.

Chills, definately.  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 19, 2006, 01:38:07 pm
The Coach of Southern Maine was quoted as saying that this is the best DIII team he has seen in a long time, and one he feels could beat some DI teams. I agree.

The run this team made is just amazing! Not only beating numbers 1,2,3,4,10, and 17, but also beating 5 D3hoops all-Americans. I gotta believe that is the most impressive run ever.

Fifield has a short memory.

http://d3hoops.com/danbury/00/washuwins.html

Washington U. 79, Southern Maine 33
Washington U. 64, Scranton 30
Washington U. 86, Baldwin-Wallace 71
Washington U. 81, UW-Eau Claire 63
Washington U. 67, UW-Oshkosh 46

Granted this was the only time WashU hosted a sectional in the last decade at least, but Eau Claire was #2 and Baldwin-Wallaces was #3.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 19, 2006, 01:57:46 pm
(http://i1.tinypic.com/rsbdif.jpg)

I definitely think you'd be hard pressed to find a more difficult road any men's or women's D3 team has taken to a national title. 

For those that didn't get to make it, see how it all ended:
http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=rsaseh


Where'd you get the video?  I'd be more interested in the 25th Anniversary team ceremony.

I know it seems like I'm trying to rain on the parade, but I just like intellectual honesty.  Another tough run that might compare:

http://www.d3hoops.com/danbury/wtitle98.htm

I half remembered this bit before I went looking:
Quote:
On the way to the title, the Bears, who finished the season with a school-record 28-2 ledger, twice defeated defending NCAA champion NYU to win the University Athletic Association (UAA) title. Then the Bears had to open the NCAA tournament by knocking off the nation's only unbeaten team (Millikin); defeat the top-ranked team in the country (Wisconsin-Oshkosh) on the way to the semifinals; and then pull off their biggest win of the year by beating Southern Maine on its home floor.

Washington U. became only the second team in the 17-year history of the tournament to defeat the host school on its own floor in the title game.

End Quote

Second and last since the tournament started using a neutral site the following year.

The scores were

Washington U. 77, Southern Maine 69
Washington U. 66, Rowan 51
Washington U. 53, Wisconsin-Oshkosh 45
Washington U. 82, Bridgewater 36
Washington U. 66, Millikin 54
 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gordonmann on March 19, 2006, 02:48:59 pm
Mark:

I don't think Coach Fifield has a short memory.  Here's the full quote as posted in our Hope feature available off the front page.

“We got beat as good a team as I've seen in Division III,” said Southern Maine head coach Gary Fifield. “They were every good as bit as those Washington University teams."

Since I only saw one of the Wash U title teams (2001), I won't try to compare Hope with the one you raised.  But I don't think you can undersell how good this Hope team was.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 19, 2006, 03:10:15 pm

Where'd you get the video?  I'd be more interested in the 25th Anniversary team ceremony.

I know it seems like I'm trying to rain on the parade, but I just like intellectual honesty.  Another tough run that might compare:



Then DON"T rain on the parade.  Yeesh!

Intellectual Honesty would require that you transport Wash U through time to play this team.  Otherwise, it is a mute point.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 19, 2006, 06:02:22 pm
Anyone know if any of the guys from the men's team made the trip to support the women?  Just wondering...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 19, 2006, 07:58:08 pm
Fifield has a short memory.

http://d3hoops.com/danbury/00/washuwins.html

Washington U. 79, Southern Maine 33
Washington U. 64, Scranton 30
Washington U. 86, Baldwin-Wallace 71
Washington U. 81, UW-Eau Claire 63
Washington U. 67, UW-Oshkosh 46

Granted this was the only time WashU hosted a sectional in the last decade at least, but Eau Claire was #2 and Baldwin-Wallaces was #3.

I had heard the USM coach having this conversation with some Hope fans after the game and in comparing with Washington, he did specifically mention the years '99 and '00. Not sure what that means about how he might compare this year's USM and Scranton to those teams six years ago, but that was the opinion he gave. I have not seen any Washington teams personally, including this year, and I doubt any of these Hope fans are intimately knowlegable about those teams 5-8 years ago so all we know is what was suggested by one coach. If you're so concerned with his "intellectual honesty," I'm sure you can find Coach Fifield's email online and make your corrections directly to the source. None of us have seen as many of these teams up close as Fifield has, so we can simply report what we heard. Even if he was overstating things, I doubt he's going to ruin the reputation of a 4-time national champion with one man's opinion.

And I don't know where any video of the halftime ceremony with the 25-year team might be, but it just didn't quite seem to have that same excitement. Go back and find the article D3hoops wrote about the team's accomplishments, read that list over a loudspeaker, and picture those 6 women standing at mid-court in power suits. That was about as exciting as it got I'm sorry to report. 
Title: Front Page mistake
Post by: tniem on March 20, 2006, 08:49:50 am
Quote
Bottom: All-American Bria Ebels clutches the Walnut and Bronze.

The caption is wrong, that should say Hope Center Linda Ebels clutches the Walnut and Bronze.  Oh well!


And, aren't you glad you gave into Hope fans and added the women in your preview as one of the teams that could make it to the Final Four.  Apparently it was our women's tournament to lose and not our men's.   ;)
Title: Re: Front Page mistake
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 20, 2006, 09:40:51 am
Quote
Bottom: All-American Bria Ebels clutches the Walnut and Bronze.

The caption is wrong, that should say Hope Center Linda Ebels clutches the Walnut and Bronze.  Oh well!


And, aren't you glad you gave into Hope fans and added the women in your preview as one of the teams that could make it to the Final Four.  Apparently it was our women's tournament to lose and not our men's.   ;)

Thanks for the smarm.

And yes, there's your banner.
Title: Re: Front Page mistake
Post by: tniem on March 20, 2006, 09:51:47 am
Quote
Bottom: All-American Bria Ebels clutches the Walnut and Bronze.

The caption is wrong, that should say Hope Center Linda Ebels clutches the Walnut and Bronze.  Oh well!


And, aren't you glad you gave into Hope fans and added the women in your preview as one of the teams that could make it to the Final Four.  Apparently it was our women's tournament to lose and not our men's.   ;)

Thanks for the smarm.

And yes, there's your banner.

Thanks Pat, hope you knew I was joking...  You guys do a great job.  The coverage this weekend was fantastic and you were right about the quality of the Final Four video.  Wow.   :o

To all that made the trip, hope you had tons of fun.  I am sorry I could not make it.  Eight hours was just going to be too much on the car without someone coming with me.  I will always regret it but will be happy to see another banner at DeVos when I make the trip home.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 20, 2006, 10:19:20 am
Pat, I also have to poke at D3hoops and point out you guys missed your chance when you had posed the question of what team entering both men and women into the brackets had the best shot at dual national titles. You listed all the teams who had both men and women berths and said that while Hope was a tempting pick, you ultimately gave Baldwin Wallace the best chance. I'm glad the Flying Dutch proved that choice 1/2 (or is it 1/4?) wrong. It's still too bad that the Dutchman couldn't make the double-up and also prove you right on your men's prediction, but one banner is better than none.

So next year do we have to point out that Hope is equal opportunity and rebut the "where's your banner?" chant with "title nine, title nine" cheers?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: usmhoops1 on March 20, 2006, 10:38:52 am
Wanted to send along a big congratulations to Hope.  I am  a big supporter of USM but I thought the best team won on Saturday. Your entire community should be ecstatic.

 For those who missed the weekend in Springfield, I feel badly for you.  What an incredible atmosphere.  Great basketball, fans, etc.Springfield did an excellent job.

Kudos to all the fans that attended.  The Hope fans were great.  Some great cheers. Loved the stretching routine!!

Again congrats.  You are an outstanding team
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 20, 2006, 11:15:17 am
Thanks USM, and it certainly was quite an atmosphere all weekend long. We felt our team was ready for whoever they came up against, but Myles and Marble were both incredible. That has to be a huge blow for USM to see both of them go out that way, though apparently Marble has a potential decision to get one more year of eligibility. USM seems to show up regularly in the late rounds of the tourney so if Morehouse can parlay this title into the recruitment of continued national championship talent, perhaps we will be seeing the Huskies again before too long.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: usmhoops1 on March 20, 2006, 11:54:59 am
Marble will play next year.  After playing Volleyball at The university in Orono,  she transferred.  Still has one more year.  The frontcourt needs to get better though.  She plays well but is undersized when coming up against the size she saw this past weekend.

An interesting post from the frontpage on thoughts about Springfield.  Someone thought there was great motivation about Hope getting snubbed to some extent in relation to the ranking and all americans.

Any list of that magnitude with 400 plus schools is educated guesswork sometimes.  No one person can possibly evaluate that many girls.  You know how that goes.  Pick these 15 and someone gets thier nose bent.  Certainly, winning the title puts Hope to the front and would probably get  more thoughts in relation to rankings etc.

Because teams dont cross over and play until the tourney, there could probably be 4 polls, kind of like what the NCAA regional polls represent.  Not perfect either way.  Think of it this way.  You got the big trophy.  I think that is the ultimate prize!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 20, 2006, 11:58:44 am
I talked to our guys Friday night after the semifinals and before making the final call on All-Americans and they told me Ebels had to be on there. (She was on the bubble with two other guards coming into the weekend.) Our crew announced the All-Americans at halftime but the decision did not involve the title game.

The only thing we held out for the results of the title game was Morehouse as coach of the year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 20, 2006, 12:18:08 pm
Marble will play next year.  After playing Volleyball at The university in Orono,  she transferred.  Still has one more year.  The frontcourt needs to get better though.  She plays well but is undersized when coming up against the size she saw this past weekend.

An interesting post from the frontpage on thoughts about Springfield.  Someone thought there was great motivation about Hope getting snubbed to some extent in relation to the ranking and all americans.

... Not perfect either way.  Think of it this way.  You got the big trophy.  I think that is the ultimate prize!!

Marble is one of those players (and this is a compliment) who is very hard to like from the opposing bleachers.  She's everywhere, doing amazing stuff, and (seemingly) getting away with stuff that others don't (why does a slide 8 feet across the floor with the ball never count as a travel for her???).   ;)

FDF did overhear her after the game commenting to a friend that the size of our girls was something else.

As to being snubbed -- don't waste too much time thinking that our women or coach cared.  Seems our women often fly under the radar, and Coach Mo has mentioned on more than one occasion that that's just fine with him.  I didn't get the feeling in any way that they were playing with a chip on their shoulder.  I would call it more of a calm, cool, confident team attitude of "its okay, they'll see in the end."

All in all, it was a great weekend in Mass.  Can't believe we drove all the way out and back, but man, I wouldn't have missed it for the world.  So glad we were able to be there, and watch as the girls on the bench realized that they had the game locked.  Awesome memories, just awesome.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 20, 2006, 04:47:08 pm
Civic this little piece of your post says it all.........."Seems our women often fly under the radar".

I think this was very true here in Holland this year.......all the talk was about the men and their shot at a title.  But quietly behind the scenes the ladies were putting together an amazing season.

As the season wore on I think more and more people started to understand how good they were.........capped off by the 1500 who showed up for the MIAA Championship game.  Heck we didn't even get to see an NCAA game in Holland, likely because the men hosted instead.  So without the benefit of the Orange clad legion of fans who are more than happy to hop on a bandwagon........the ladies went about thier business......quietly.  Even the men's trip to Springfield got more attention.

The ladies have always kind of been in the shadows of the men's program.  Despite the National Title in 1990 the Hope women really haven't had a great history untill Coach Mo's arrival.  Hope's in the middle of a 7 year run of 6 MIAA Championships.......prior to 2000 Hope had 2 overall in 21 years of MIAA play.  In fact the ladies still have a losing overall record against Alma and Calvin.

The fact that the ladies played on campus at the un-fan friendly Dow Center while the men played in front of sold out Civic Center crowds just added to the distance between the two programs.

DeVos has changed that in that now fans have a nice place and a proper place to watch the ladies.  The double-headers with the men's teams drew great crowds......and I think many snowy evenings when the men were away the ladies got a nice boost in attendance.

Coach Mo has elevated a "sleeping giant" to national prominance............I have a feeling if Coach Mo sticks around a long time this won't be the last National Championship banner his woman's teams will put up in the rafters of DeVos.

Perhaps we should have been paying attention all along.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 20, 2006, 04:49:52 pm
P.S.  Bria Ebels was the best overall and most complete player I saw this year..........men and women.  Her ability to turn a game in her teams favor with amazing defensive plays and clutch offensive shooting was stunning.

.........and heck I only saw them play 4 times. ;)


........and I'm envious of her boundless energy.  ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 20, 2006, 05:19:27 pm
yeah mo dose a great job with the girl   team     they could be pretty good next year to
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dren on March 20, 2006, 07:59:54 pm
WTG dutch.  Congrats on a great season!

Also to Monsoon and SAC for winning the pick'em

Final Women's Leaders
1   monsoon   142 * champ via tiebreaker
1   Sac   142
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 21, 2006, 08:10:37 am


So next year do we have to point out that Hope is equal opportunity and rebut the "where's your banner?" chant with "title nine, title nine" cheers?

I don't get the meaning of this one.  Please explain
Title: DePauw vs Hope in Elite 8 From Coach Mo
Post by: Morehouse on March 21, 2006, 09:41:03 am
I'm asking that no more posts be made in regards to the DePauw game and the fans.  I sent the following letter to President Bottoms and Coach Huffman and Roz Fornari.  I mean ever word in it and don't feel they should be receiving the emails.  Let's show the class Hope fans should have and move on. 

President Bottoms, Coach Huffman, and Roz Fornari:
It has come to my attention that DePauw University, President Bottoms, Coach Kris Huffman, and Roz Fornari (NCAA site administrator) have come under great scrutiny for the Hope vs DePauw game. I would like to address this from my viewpoint. I have great respect for DePauw University. Kris Huffman is one of the finest people I have had the pleasure to meet in my 10 years as head basketball coach. She exemplifies EVERYTHING that is right about Division 3 athletics. She is a great role model and great ambassador of the game. She is an amazing coach who turns out great teams every year. Kris Huffman is also flat out classy in victory or defeat. I'd love for my daughters who are 4 and 6 to play for a person like Kris Huffman.
Roz Fornari was the NCAA rep and site administrator for the game in Greencastle. I am fortunate to serve on a national committee for the NCAA with her. I have the highest respect for her as a person, coach, and leader. Roz was also our site administrator at Capital University for the first two rounds and our liason at the Final Four. She did a fantastic job at all sites. We were treated with great respect and everything was well organized. She went above and beyond the call in her organization and representation of the NCAA.
The language used by the students was unfortunate, but not a reflection on Kris Huffman or Roz Fornari. They both did their jobs and did them very well.
Sometimes when students get in a group it empowers them. They do things they normally wouldn't do. Using the "F" word is an unfortunate thing that a number of students chose to do. I don't feel it should reflect negatively on Coach Huffman or Roz Fornari. I wish fans understood that college athletics needs MORE people like Kris Huffman and Roz Fornari. They are two of the very best.

Sincerely,


Brian Morehouse
Hope College Women's Basketball Coach

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on March 21, 2006, 10:13:49 am
I don't get the meaning of this one.  Please explain

Just referring to the Title Nine Era which intends to put women's sports on equal footing with men. As in we have banners, they just happen to be from the ladies. I was just kidding since the cheers are only directed at the men's team anyway, but perhaps the Hope fans need to start that cheer at Hope-Calvin women's games now.
Title: Re: DePauw vs Hope in Elite 8 From Coach Mo
Post by: northb on March 21, 2006, 12:11:11 pm
I'm asking that no more posts be made in regards to the DePauw game and the fans.  I sent the following letter to President Bottoms and Coach Huffman and Roz Fornari.  I mean ever word in it and don't feel they should be receiving the emails.  Let's show the class Hope fans should have and move on. 

President Bottoms, Coach Huffman, and Roz Fornari:
It has come to my attention that DePauw University, President Bottoms, Coach Kris Huffman, and Roz Fornari (NCAA site administrator) have come under great scrutiny for the Hope vs DePauw game. I would like to address this from my viewpoint. I have great respect for DePauw University. Kris Huffman is one of the finest people I have had the pleasure to meet in my 10 years as head basketball coach. She exemplifies EVERYTHING that is right about Division 3 athletics. She is a great role model and great ambassador of the game. She is an amazing coach who turns out great teams every year. Kris Huffman is also flat out classy in victory or defeat. I'd love for my daughters who are 4 and 6 to play for a person like Kris Huffman.
Roz Fornari was the NCAA rep and site administrator for the game in Greencastle. I am fortunate to serve on a national committee for the NCAA with her. I have the highest respect for her as a person, coach, and leader. Roz was also our site administrator at Capital University for the first two rounds and our liason at the Final Four. She did a fantastic job at all sites. We were treated with great respect and everything was well organized. She went above and beyond the call in her organization and representation of the NCAA.
The language used by the students was unfortunate, but not a reflection on Kris Huffman or Roz Fornari. They both did their jobs and did them very well.
Sometimes when students get in a group it empowers them. They do things they normally wouldn't do. Using the "F" word is an unfortunate thing that a number of students chose to do. I don't feel it should reflect negatively on Coach Huffman or Roz Fornari. I wish fans understood that college athletics needs MORE people like Kris Huffman and Roz Fornari. They are two of the very best.

Sincerely,


Brian Morehouse
Hope College Women's Basketball Coach



Agreed.

Nice letter.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 21, 2006, 02:40:15 pm
WTG dutch.  Congrats on a great season!

Also to Monsoon and SAC for winning the pick'em

Final Women's Leaders
1   monsoon   142 * champ via tiebreaker
1   Sac   142


Wish I could say it was my expert ability to analyze women's basketball.........but I was a homer. ;D

But I did have Southern Maine in the final and I think I had Scranton too.  Can't recall. 8)

I was also a homer on the men's side, but managed to get 2 of the final four correct (Amherst, Virginia Wesleyan).  That UW-dujour philosophy didn't quite workout this year.



........and you guys thought only us fans read this stuff.

Nice letter coach and thank you for representing Hope so well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 21, 2006, 04:04:53 pm
thank you coach on a great seasson this year keep it going  coach
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 21, 2006, 06:15:25 pm
GOOSEBUMPS! 

That's what I got when I was finally able to read the front page stories and the recent posts on this site regarding the win by the Hope College Women's Basketball team!!!   :D  I think I'm still on cloud 9 from being in Springfield for the weekend.  The ladies played really well and represented the college really well too!  I may have a few less shuckels in my pocket but I wouldn't have traded that experience for anything else!  It's something that I won't forget.

As Sac has mentioned time and time again, DEFENSE wins games.  And the Hope College Ladies Basketball TEAM won two very competetive games by playing tough DEFENSE.  Both Scranton and Southern Maine were very good teams and the Dutch stayed with their game plan and came out victorious!!!

I am VERY proud of the ladies, both on and off the court, as they played their hearts out and had fun too!

And the Hope contingency that followed the ladies out East, just spectacular!!!  They estimated that over 500 fans were there for Hope.  Ladies - it was truly our honor to cheer you on!!!

Yep, still have 'em - GOOSEBUMPS!!!   :D



GO HOPE!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 21, 2006, 08:21:58 pm
Cool. :)

Hey, a reminder that Coach Morehouse is on Hoopsville as we speak.
http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/tunein.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 22, 2006, 08:42:57 pm
Mark:

But I don't think you can undersell how good this Hope team was.

One last question, how did this utterly superior Hope team only beat the vastly inferior Wash U team by 3 points?  One would think Hope should have won by at least 15 points, perhaps all the way up to 46.

Personally, I think you are courting bad karma by continuing to claim them to be the best team ever, which given the fate of the 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 champions doesn't seem advisable.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 23, 2006, 07:03:51 am
Mark:

But I don't think you can undersell how good this Hope team was.

One last question, how did this utterly superior Hope team only beat the vastly inferior Wash U team by 3 points?  One would think Hope should have won by at least 15 points, perhaps all the way up to 46.

Personally, I think you are courting bad karma by continuing to claim them to be the best team ever, which given the fate of the 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 champions doesn't seem advisable.

Except he is saying it on the MIAA Board where it is mainly Hope fans right now.  Who is going to give him bad karma?  ;)

I am not sure I see what the issue is.  As far as I can tell, Hope fans have not said that this team is the best ever, they have just speculated that the team had one of the hardest runs possible.  It is mere speculation.  There is no way to ever know. 

Same with you continuing to say that there were better teams out there in the past then this one.  That is probably true.  But it is impossible to know.  It is simply speculation to put teams from different years against each other.  It can be fun for fans but in the end it means very little and shouldn't change someone's karma. 

And just so you know, I would have loved to see the Flying Dutch in 2002 and 2003 play WashU or this versions Hope team.  IIRC Keerkstra was never at full strength in 2003 after she had hurt her knee.  Plus, according to Becky Sutton (new last name) the 2002 was incredibly nervous in the tourneys, while this tem was much more loose.  Had Morehouse had that experience and helped to loosn up those Dutch teams of old, who knows what they could have done?  They were not as deep as this team but they had some great players at the skill positions with Bria and Linda Ebels coming off the bench.  Again it is pure speculation.  Doesn't mean much and WashU would have been favored but it would have been fun...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2006, 09:04:13 am
Mark:

But I don't think you can undersell how good this Hope team was.

One last question, how did this utterly superior Hope team only beat the vastly inferior Wash U team by 3 points?  One would think Hope should have won by at least 15 points, perhaps all the way up to 46.

Personally, I think you are courting bad karma by continuing to claim them to be the best team ever, which given the fate of the 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 champions doesn't seem advisable.

Those claims have been made entirely by non Hope fans, including several 500 win coaches.
Title: 2006 Flying Dutch
Post by: Hoper Upper on March 23, 2006, 10:32:29 am
First, congrats to the team and the coach for a fantastic year.

Washington U. was, IMHO, the best team that the Dutch played.  Kelly Manning was the best offensive player in DIII.  The only way the Dutch won was that they played their best game of the year.  If they hadn't, they would have lost. 

The Dutch had the unique ability of playing their best when the game was on the line.  Over and over again, they were able to ratchet themselves up to win games--e.g., the Albion away game, the Alma home game, the "flu tourney in Orlando", Washington U, and then Scranton Pa.

There were lots of reasons why they should have lost games--(the Orlando tourney being a prime example--3 or 4 kids throwing up during the game)  But, they didn't.  They always were able to find a way to win.

What truly separates the 2005-06 Flying Dutch from the other teams was their ability for players not only to elevate their game but also to adapt their game so that the team would win.   Bria was the star of a lot of the games, but there were a bunch of kids who came up big over and over again during the year.   

Any team built around one player could never beat the 2005-06 Dutch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 23, 2006, 06:18:38 pm
HU:  Very fine post.  Each time I saw Calvin play the Hope ladies this year it was obvious they were a superior team.  As some have mentioned no super star, but an excellent team effort from top to bottom.  Some teams just develop a chemistry or work ethic or whatever you want to call it.  They just weren't going to let up, or disapoint their teammates.  The Hope ladies this year reminded me alot of the Calvin 00 men's team.  Every player had a role to fill, and they performed when called upon to do so.  Very unselfish play, and they were focused on a goal.  Other teams just couldn't get the Hope ladies to crack, and instead wound up cracking themselves.
I think I understand where Coach Morehouse is coming from.  I don't doubt the quality of the De Pauw coach or the NCAA rep.  My only question remains why have a sportmanship article in the NCAA if you don't intend to follow or enforce it?  Failing to speakout only insures more teams in the future will be subjected to similar or worse treatment. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 23, 2006, 07:25:06 pm
I completely agree about the dominance of the Dutch.  How often do you find a national championship team that only has 2 players who average double figures in scoring, and no one who finished in the top 10 in scoring or rebounding in the conference.  I think this team was the best example of team I have ever witnessed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 24, 2006, 10:29:39 am
FDF:  You are correct.  In watching/listening to the tournament games you could tell the other teams/coaches were having a hard time handling Hope.  Normally when the bench players come in the pressure is a notch less, but Woods et al. almost seemed to turn up the intensity a notch or two.  Yes, it is fun to watch a TEAM play as opposed to 5 people in the same uniform running around.  It is interesting to contrast the Hope women's and mens programs this year.  The men very talented, but just never seemd to get a clear reading what their roles were.  It seemed on several ocassions the men kept waitng for someone to step up, but it didn't happen.  The women on the other hand everyone played 100% when they got their chance.  It also seemed they all had a green light to shoot.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 24, 2006, 01:47:09 pm
I don't remember who the quote was from, but I recall one opposing player (I think from Scranton) said something like: They were big... It seemed like when their bench came in they were even bigger than their starters...

I don't doubt that she was referring to size, but it seems to me she also was referring to HEART. Hope's bench not only played as big or in some cases physically bigger than the starters, but they came in and played like starters, with heart and emotion. Top to bottom, a great TEAM.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mark_reichert on March 24, 2006, 04:38:40 pm
Except he is saying it on the MIAA Board where it is mainly Hope fans right now.  Who is going to give him bad karma?  ;)

I wasn't going to post here again until Coleman said I'd been discredited, but given that WashU has been stuck playing Stevens Point, Trinity, Milliken, and Hope BEFORE the Final Four the last five years, I'd say WashU fans have had plenty of bad karma already, particularly if you compare us to Scranton and Southern Maine fans.  You might rightly believe I'm whining, but I say I am perfectly right in seeing it as a sick joke played from on high, if only as high as the NCAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 24, 2006, 05:33:16 pm
Got to win the games to get to the final 4... Look at Hope this year. On the road the whole way and beating 17, 10, 4, 3, 2, and 1 to win it all...

You might rightly believe I'm whining

Yup... :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ronk on March 24, 2006, 09:40:37 pm
There was no end to them,” said Southern Maine forward Ashley Marble, an All-Tournament selection, who was held nine points below her average to just eight points. “It seemed like they got bigger every time they came in.”
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 25, 2006, 12:26:29 am
Thanks...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hoper Upper on March 25, 2006, 05:02:16 am
mark_reichert:

One difference between DIII and the other divisions is that regional games  in the NCAA tournament is based on geography  rather than seeding.  Whoever comes out of the midwest has had to beat teams from the midwest.  As far as basketball, IMHO the best teams are in the midwest--so to get into the final 4 you have to beat a lot of good teams.

IMHO, the ratings would be:

(1)  Hope
(2)  Washington U.
(3)  Scranton
(4)  DePauw
(5)  Southern Maine
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 25, 2006, 10:15:00 pm
Ottawa County, the capital of women's college basketball. ;D :D ;)

DIII Champ---Hope
DII Champ----GVSU

What do we have to do to get these two together?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 25, 2006, 10:20:45 pm
The Lakers won 2 championships this week...

http://www.gvsu.edu/gvnow/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.read_news&id=1DF95FBE-0402-CFBB-6B93EF28B734D41B

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 26, 2006, 01:38:08 am
3 championships in one year for Grand Valley State, how nice....Football, Women's Volleyball and Women's basketball...and it might not be over yet.......
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: albinomascot19 on March 26, 2006, 01:39:04 am
So DIII-Hope, DII-Grand Valley State, just need MSU to win it in DI Tourney....and it will be a heck of a year for womens basketball in michigan  :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on March 26, 2006, 12:11:30 pm
mark_reichert:

One difference between DIII and the other divisions is that regional games  in the NCAA tournament is based on geography  rather than seeding.  Whoever comes out of the midwest has had to beat teams from the midwest.  As far as basketball, IMHO the best teams are in the midwest--so to get into the final 4 you have to beat a lot of good teams.

IMHO, the ratings would be:

(1)  Hope
(2)  Washington U.
(3)  Scranton
(4)  DePauw
(5)  Southern Maine

Having watched 4 of the 5 teams play, I would rank them:

(1)  Hope
(2)  Washington U. (haven't seen them; will take your word)
(3)  Southern Maine
(4)  Scranton
(5)  DePauw  (actually, 4 & 5 seem pretty close in my book; could go either way)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 28, 2006, 02:03:15 pm
Ottawa County, the capital of women's college basketball. ;D :D ;)

DIII Champ---Hope
DII Champ----GVSU

What do we have to do to get these two together?

That is impressive, when you think that thet have to recruit against each other.  How many of their players were recruited by both teams?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 28, 2006, 02:46:28 pm
Ottawa County, the capital of women's college basketball. ;D :D ;)

DIII Champ---Hope
DII Champ----GVSU

What do we have to do to get these two together?

That is impressive, when you think that thet have to recruit against each other.  How many of their players were recruited by both teams?

Good question - I'll bet a few.  I did notice that GVSU has a "bench" player with the last name of Baltmanis.  Looking at her picture - I would guess she is the younger sister of former Hope player Amy Baltmanis - who was at the final four in Springfield.  Talk about a fun couple of weeks for her, if she made it to see GVSU win as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on March 28, 2006, 03:10:58 pm
FDF -

Yup!  Julie is Amy's "younger" sister from Paw Paw, Michigan.  From what I recall it came down between GVSU and Hope.  I perused the GVSU stats and she hasn't had a lot of playing time.  But maybe only time will tell about that.  And... HOPEfully Amy was able to go and cheer on lil sis too!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 28, 2006, 03:37:17 pm
FYI - all you Hope fans - from the Hope website:

A tribute to the national champion Flying Dutch will be held Wednesday, April 12 at 7:30 p.m. in the DeVos Fieldhouse.

I was just looking at the career record for the seniors on this team:

33-1 Freshman year (02-03)
23-4 Sophomore year (03-04)
23-4 Junior year (04-05)
33-1 Senior year (05-06)

110 -10 Total

Thats a winning percentage of 91.7%!!!  Not bad to look back and your worst season you went 23-4.  It's a shame they only got into the tournament twice.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on March 28, 2006, 04:17:45 pm
i think there will be a lot of people there on april 12  it would be a good idea to get there early i thiink 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on April 01, 2006, 08:44:04 pm
FYI - all you Hope fans - from the Hope website:

A tribute to the national champion Flying Dutch will be held Wednesday, April 12 at 7:30 p.m. in the DeVos Fieldhouse.

Here's hoping that there is a great crowd for the women...


Quote
I was just looking at the career record for the seniors on this team:

33-1 Freshman year (02-03)
23-4 Sophomore year (03-04)
23-4 Junior year (04-05)
33-1 Senior year (05-06)

110 -10 Total

Thats a winning percentage of 91.7%!!!  Not bad to look back and your worst season you went 23-4.  It's a shame they only got into the tournament twice.

FDF, I was thinking that the MIAA just didn't get enough respect for at-large births but last year both Calvin and Albion were in and this year Calvin and Hope.  Can't complain about having two bids.  It is too bad that this class had some great teams at Calvin and Albion to play against.  Of course, that competition surely helped them during this year's run, which perhaps the Dutch in 2002 and 2003 were missing, IIRC.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on April 05, 2006, 08:37:26 am
Bria Ebels in Sports Illustrated!!

Bria is in the Faces in the Crowd section of SI's latest edition.  You can also see it online:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/scorecard/faces/2006/04/10/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on April 06, 2006, 02:32:04 pm
Bria Ebels in Sports Illustrated!!

Bria is in the Faces in the Crowd section of SI's latest edition.  You can also see it online:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/scorecard/faces/2006/04/10/

And here I usually skip over those pages.  :-[

Thanks for the heads up!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on April 09, 2006, 04:59:34 pm
Recruiting news for the Hope ladies


http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/040906/localsports_20060409043.shtml
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on April 13, 2006, 04:36:12 pm
Recruiting news for the Hope ladies


http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/040906/localsports_20060409043.shtml

I'm excited about Megan -- she's good.  She really debated between Hope and Calvin (her parents are Calvin grads, she also has a sister at Hope).  I'm sure the Cowens girl is as fantastic as stated.  Sounds like good stuff!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on April 20, 2006, 09:08:58 pm
Green should be good too. Like the article states, she was overshadowed by her tall teammate... can't wait to see 'em play  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on May 30, 2006, 01:35:06 pm
The official NCAA attendance stats are out, and Hope lead the nation in attendance for the fourth year in a row, with an average home attendance of 2928 (up from 2462 a year ago - gotta love the DeVos).  IWU was second with 2470 and Calvin third with 2089.  Hope's average would have ranked them 4th in DII, and 169th in DI (meaning they out-drew 165 DI teams).

The MIAA once again lead the nation (for the 15th consecutive year) as a conference in DIII, with an average of 1234.  The CCIW was second at 866.  Pretty amazing that the MIAA has a nearly 400 per game attendance lead over the next place conference!!

Another amazing thing is that the Hope women averaged 1329, which would have placed them (versus the men) in 8th place in DIII,  and higher than 56 DI mens teams.  Given their awesome year and the national championship (and the DeVos), it will be interesting to see if that number goes up next year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Joe-Man on June 25, 2006, 02:07:54 pm
Wow, looks like the DeVos Fieldhouse, which I say even though I'm a Calvin fan, really makes an impact.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 12, 2006, 03:58:11 pm
AWESOME - check out the home page here - Hope may be hosting the womens Final Four in 08 and 09!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 12, 2006, 03:59:15 pm
Yep. I see no reason why the recommendation wouldn't be accepted, either, but hopefully we'll find out in a timely manner what the management council decides.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on July 13, 2006, 12:19:22 am
With all the new recruits to go along with returning players, when will the Hope machine slow down enough for anyone to catch it? 

I don't see recruiting getting worse, how can the other MIAA schools compete with facilities and success? 

I wonder what it'd take for Hope volleyball to get on board?  Will the Dutch build them a nice new place to play?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 13, 2006, 07:59:54 pm
They already did.  There is one of the nicest volleyball courts in DIII in the DeVos as well.  The "end zone" bleachers rotate 180 degrees, and face the volleyball court.  Probably seat 500 or so.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on July 13, 2006, 08:35:10 pm
They already did.  There is one of the nicest volleyball courts in DIII in the DeVos as well.  The "end zone" bleachers rotate 180 degrees, and face the volleyball court.  Probably seat 500 or so.

Whaaaaa' . . . stuck in a side gym with bleachers doesn't compare to Hope's basketball court and its seating.  No way. 

It's too bad so many of the other Hope facilties aren't close to the basketball team's, but different schools have different ways to tier their students.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 14, 2006, 08:56:04 am
Whaaaaa' . . . stuck in a side gym with bleachers doesn't compare to Hope's basketball court and its seating.  No way. 

It's too bad so many of the other Hope facilties aren't close to the basketball team's, but different schools have different ways to tier their students.

Maybe so - but then it's not like you get 3400 people out to watch Volleyball.  I will still bet it's the best DIII volleyball court you could find.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on July 15, 2006, 02:19:19 am

Maybe so - but then it's not like you get 3400 people out to watch Volleyball.  I will still bet it's the best DIII volleyball court you could find.

But why not put everyone on the main floor?  Why put them off to the side?

I admit, the floor is soooo much nicer lived only for hoops.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 15, 2006, 12:10:59 pm

Maybe so - but then it's not like you get 3400 people out to watch Volleyball.  I will still bet it's the best DIII volleyball court you could find.

But why not put everyone on the main floor?  Why put them off to the side?

I admit, the floor is soooo much nicer lived only for hoops.

I can think of a couple of reasons:

1. Both the volleyball and basketball courts are very clean - meaning that neither of them have other lines running across the floor.  The volleyball court has a similar design to the basketball court, graphics and all.

2. A volleyball game held in a 3400 seat arena would feel quite empty , even if you had 1000 people there.  A smaller area provides a better atmosphere for the fans and players, and increases your home court advantage.
Title: Re: Volleyball in Devos
Post by: tniem on July 17, 2006, 10:27:06 am
Bilk,

I gotta say, I do not understand your argument at all.  Volleyball is not played on the same size court as basketball.  It is a smaller court (I know they need space around the out of bounds but even that is smaller).  So why do teams play volleyball on basketball courts?  Because their schools do not allocate the resources to volleyball.  Simple as that.

Hope built a new gym.  And as part of that construction they built it larger (the building) than it needed to be so that they could have a court that was large enough to play volleyball.  Most schools would not have done that.  They would have either put lines on the basketball court and had small crowds in a huge stadium or they would have continued to use the Dow Center.  Hope built its own volleyball court.  This is not some normal situation of being "stuck in a side gym with bleachers".  It is complete with its own volleyball only scoreboard, seating and court designed for volleyball and a nice new wood floor all in the DeVos Fieldhouse. 

I would guess, if you asked the team and the coach, they are very happy with their new digs and would prefer them over playing on the basketball floor. 

And to answer your other question, Hope's volleyball team has been turned around.  This is from the Hope website:

Quote
The Flying Dutch posted a perfect 16-0 record in winning the conference championship in Schmidt's second season as head coach. The team posted a 27-8 record this season. Schmidt's two-year record is 46-22.

Calvin got the win in the conference tournament, keeping the Flying Dutch from making the NCAA tournament.  But it appears that Hope is back to its winning ways, winning its first outright regular season title since 2000, which was the last time they were in the NCAAs. 
Title: Re: Volleyball in Devos
Post by: Bilk on July 18, 2006, 03:44:31 pm
Good points....thanks for the response.

Bilk,

I gotta say, I do not understand your argument at all.

I’ll try to be clearer.

So why do teams play volleyball on basketball courts?  Because their schools do not allocate the resources to volleyball.  Simple as that.

So why allocate the nice seating and lighting to basketball and not volleyball?

Hope built a new gym.  And as part of that construction they built it larger (the building) than it needed to be so that they could have a court that was large enough to play volleyball.  Most schools would not have done that.

Just because most schools would not have done it still does not make it right.

It is complete with its own volleyball only scoreboard, seating and court designed for volleyball and a nice new wood floor all in the DeVos Fieldhouse. 

The stadium seating in the basketball arena would be preferable to the bleachers they fans sit in now.  Why not build the volleyball venue with the same bells and whistles as the basketball arena?

I would guess, if you asked the team and the coach, they are very happy with their new digs and would prefer them over playing on the basketball floor. 

True, but I would guess volleyball would like their seating to be as nice as the basketball’s.

And to answer your other question, Hope's volleyball team has been turned around. 

But are they in the top-2 or 3 in the NCAA, like the basketball team are, and will continue to be?  Can they bring in the recruits as well as they would with a venue like basketball’s?

It bothers me that Hope builds this beautiful basketball arena while letting some of their other sports flounder in staffing and facilities.  In the MIAA so many school make little, if any attempt to be competitive at a national level with most of their teams.  But they still expect the high-end MIAA teams to travel and waste competitive dates on them.

What do you think?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on July 18, 2006, 04:44:25 pm
Bilk, have you been to the DeVos at all and looked at the volleyball court?  That may turn this conversation around and end things.

My understanding, FDF, correct me if I am wrong, is the volleyball court does have lighting and bleachers that are as nice as the basketball stadium.  It is not as large but it is brand new and it is more in line with the number of spectators expected to go to a volleyball game.  From what I can tell, it is better than simply having them play on the basketball court, the area is designed just for volleyball.  The bleachers are not the fold up variety, they are the ones used at the end of the basketball stadium that turn for volleyball games.  Not sure what else you want Hope to do for volleyball or less popular sports.

Here is a picture of the floor plan:

(http://hope.edu/pr/img/devos/05DeVosConcourse.jpg)

As you can see, it is a part of the DeVos Fieldhouse, it has the same seats as the basketball stadium (the left most bleachers shift) and they are not the fold up variety.  The area is designed for volleyball.  It is just as new.  The lighting and seats are up to par. 

You were perfectly clear about your belief that schools should provide for less popular sports (which I happen to agree with).  What you still have not been clear about is why you think Hope has not provided for volleyball.  They have been given a great new facility with all the bells and whistles.  In my opinion, it is better than playing on the main court.  Believe me, if it was not, they would be playing on the basketball DeVos Fieldhouse court (different seasons than basketball so it isn't interfering or anything) and the alums that gave would have saved a million bucks or so.  But for whatever reason the school recognized that volleyball has different needs and built a separate court.  If you are going to continue to criticize this decision, you need to explain what Hope did wrong with this venue not general criticisms of all colleges and apply that as an assumption. 

In terms of other Hope facilities, the biggest needs for a long time have been W Basketball and Volleyball since they were in the student rec activity building and it was crowded.  Hope took care of that.  The next sports related facilities that needs to be examined are the baseball and softball diamonds.  Some decent seating is needed and it would be nice to have a better clubhouse for the home teams.  Longer term, a new pool will be needed at some point.  Otherwise, most of the facilities are in good shape.  The soccer teams have a nice field, the indoor tennis courts are great, track and cross country are functional, golf takes place all over Michigan, and hockey is a good facility.  In fact, arguably, the teams that have had the worse facilities all these years have been M Basketball and Football. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on July 18, 2006, 10:16:06 pm
Bilk, have you been to the DeVos at all and looked at the volleyball court?  That may turn this conversation around and end things.

My understanding, FDF, correct me if I am wrong, is the volleyball court does have lighting and bleachers that are as nice as the basketball stadium. 

They have been given a great new facility with all the bells and whistles.

I guess I would like to see some stadium seating, ie. the fold down chairs, like they have at the basketball venue.  As far as lighting, the west wall could’ve had some natural light comming throuigh it?  And maybe a way to close it off from the basketball arena (curitan?)

So, with volleyball, it’s mainly a seating quality issue.

...it is more in line with the number of spectators expected to go to a volleyball game...Not sure what else you want Hope to do for volleyball or less popular sports.

Your are dead on with this.  The smaller venue is better for volleyball.

You make great points, thanks for your time.  What'ya think about the seating?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on July 18, 2006, 10:49:45 pm
The next sports related facilities that needs to be examined are the baseball and softball diamonds.....a new pool.....Otherwise, most of the facilities are in good shape.....
soccer.....a nice field
indoor tennis courts are great
track and cross country are functional
golf takes place all over Michigan
hockey is a good facility

In fact, arguably, the teams that have had the worse facilities all these years have been M Basketball and Football. 

Hope's track is worse than many middle schools.  They just had it resurfaced, without adding a steeple pit or appropriate runways for the jumps.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on July 19, 2006, 09:02:17 am
As far as lighting, the west wall could’ve had some natural light comming throuigh it?

Fair enough.  Not sure the dynamics of how natural light would play with volleyball players.  One criticism for basketball is that for afternoon games there is too much natural light.  But that maybe should have been done.


Quote
And maybe a way to close it off from the basketball arena (curitan?)

There is a curtain, or at least I know that was the plan.


Quote
So, with volleyball, it’s mainly a seating quality issue....What'ya think about the seating?

Would fold down seats be nice?  Sure.  But as a recent student, we would not use it for basketball.  Surely I would not need it for volleyball.  I guess I don't see it as that big of an issues.  Fold down seats are a nice reward to the season ticket holders in my mind.  It doesn't diminish the quality that much.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on July 19, 2006, 09:02:59 am
The next sports related facilities that needs to be examined are the baseball and softball diamonds.....a new pool.....Otherwise, most of the facilities are in good shape.....
soccer.....a nice field
indoor tennis courts are great
track and cross country are functional
golf takes place all over Michigan
hockey is a good facility

In fact, arguably, the teams that have had the worse facilities all these years have been M Basketball and Football. 

Hope's track is worse than many middle schools.  They just had it resurfaced, without adding a steeple pit or appropriate runways for the jumps.

I stand corrected.  I should also clarify that with football I meant it in comparison to other school's fields.  Its a nice venue but certainly it is a bit different than having the locker room as part of the facility.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on July 19, 2006, 05:43:53 pm
Fair enough.  Not sure the dynamics of how natural light would play with volleyball players.  One criticism for basketball is that for afternoon games there is too much natural light.  But that maybe should have been done.

No, I can see how the uncontrolled light could be a problem.

There is a curtain, or at least I know that was the plan.

Alright, I should know that before I post.

Would fold down seats be nice?  Sure.  But as a recent student, we would not use it for basketball.  Surely I would not need it for volleyball.  I guess I don't see it as that big of an issues.  Fold down seats are a nice reward to the season ticket holders in my mind.  It doesn't diminish the quality that much.

Would nicer seating bring in more alumni and faculty (aka. old folks)?  I think they may add to the atmosphere.

You've pretty much shot me down, point for point...GO DUTCH?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on July 20, 2006, 02:09:35 pm
Bilk, I don't think you can critisize Hope for its football facility since they don't own it and I'm sure have no control over condition of the field.  The City of Holland owns it and Hope shares it with Holland High.

I would also bet most volleyball players will be quite pleased with the new gym in DeVos correctly called DeYoung Volleyball Gymnasium.

For what its worth Hope's men's golf team plays on one of the finest facilities for any level of golf D1 to D3 at Wuskowhan Players Club. ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on July 20, 2006, 03:49:09 pm
Bilk, I don't think you can critisize Hope for its football facility since they don't own it and I'm sure have no control over condition of the field.  The City of Holland owns it and Hope shares it with Holland High.


I don't think I critisized Hope's football stadium, although I do post in my sleep sometimes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on July 20, 2006, 04:00:57 pm
If you're looking for a non-Hope opinion re: the ongoing debate over Hope's athletic facilities (and even if you're not) I'll offer mine. I think that tniem, FDF, et. al., win over bilk--at least with respect to volleyball and golf. Having the volleyball players at DeVos in their own separate location is much preferable to placing the competition on the BB floor where the players would have 3000 empty seats to look at. The decision was well thought IMHO.

As to golf, sac is right. I've played Wuskhowhan and it's a fabulous track. You'd be hard pressed to find a college golf team at any level that plays at a nicer venue.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on July 20, 2006, 06:40:28 pm
Bilk--I may have read between the lines a bit about the football facility........which I think is excellent for D3 actually.

I can share with you that since I stepped on the Hope campus in 1988 they've built 2 soccer fields and improved both the softball and baseball diamonds which need improvement again, redone the track at least once, built an indoor tennis facility, refurbished the Dow Center, and of course built DeVos Fieldhouse.

The improvements are coming at a nice clip actually, it takes time and alot of money, money Hope doesn't always have.  Every academic building on campus has been improved as well.   I think you'll see more improvements as President Bultman's tenure continues, one of the things I've really liked about him is how he understands the importance that athletics plays in a small private college experience for its students.  He seems to be 100% behind Hope athletics.

Since we're on the topic of improvements I've often thought Hope was a little squeezed when it came to space with its athletic facilities.  My hope and maybe this is a long shot is that Hope will consider buying the future empty land the Hart and Cooley plant presently occupies and use it to develop more suitable baseball, softball, track soccer, tennis and intramural fields.

Purchasing that property could really give Hope the oppurtunity to build some first class D3 facilities. 

Pretty good dream huh?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on July 20, 2006, 11:12:01 pm
I can share with you that since I stepped on the Hope campus in 1988 they've built 2 soccer fields and improved both the softball and baseball diamonds which need improvement again, redone the track at least once, built an indoor tennis facility, refurbished the Dow Center, and of course built DeVos Fieldhouse.

The improvements are coming at a nice clip actually, it takes time and alot of money, money Hope doesn't always have.  Every academic building on campus has been improved as well.   I think you'll see more improvements as President Bultman's tenure continues, one of the things I've really liked about him is how he understands the importance that athletics plays in a small private college experience for its students.  He seems to be 100% behind Hope athletics.

Since we're on the topic of improvements I've often thought Hope was a little squeezed when it came to space with its athletic facilities.  My hope and maybe this is a long shot is that Hope will consider buying the future empty land the Hart and Cooley plant presently occupies and use it to develop more suitable baseball, softball, track soccer, tennis and intramural fields.

Hope has RESURFACED the track twice since 1988, but they have still left the high jump, long jump, triple jump and pole vault areas ILLEGAL by NCAA standards.  And, it is still missing a steeple pit. 

That would be amazing if Hope could get their hands on the Hart and Cooley plant.  they would have the space to build something like Benedictine University has in Lisle, IL!  They have an amazing football/track and field/lacrosse/softball/baseball facility.  They hosted the NCAA Softball and Track and Field National Championships this year.  Check it out:

http://www.ben.edu/news/sports_complex/
http://www.ben.edu/news/sports_complex/photo_gallery.asp
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on July 21, 2006, 12:52:04 am
If you're looking for a non-Hope opinion re: the ongoing debate over Hope's athletic facilities (and even if you're not) I'll offer mine. I think that tniem, FDF, et. al., win over bilk--at least with respect to volleyball and golf.

Agreed, tniem made very solid points re the volleyball venue.  I don't think I commented about golf.

Hope has RESURFACED the track twice since 1988, but they have still left the high jump, long jump, triple jump and pole vault areas ILLEGAL by NCAA standards.  And, it is still missing a steeple pit. 

Amen.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on July 21, 2006, 09:49:05 am
Bilk, I don't think you can critisize Hope for its football facility since they don't own it and I'm sure have no control over condition of the field.  The City of Holland owns it and Hope shares it with Holland High.


I don't think I critisized Hope's football stadium, although I do post in my sleep sometimes.

Just to clarify, I am pretty sure I was the one to criticize the football stadium.  And I am well aware of who owns the stadium.  To quote:


Quote
In fact, arguably, the teams that have had the worse facilities all these years have been M Basketball and Football.


I stand by that, at least if you factor in the popularity of the sports being viewed.  As Trailer Dog rightly pointed out, however, it is clear that track is the most in need of upgrades.  I mentioned baseball and softball, as well and the need for a new pool in the not so distant future.  But I stand by the main point of the original argument I made about volleyball, which is that Hope does care about lesser watched sports and has pretty good facilities across the board. 

Sac, you made a great point about the academic buildings.  Lubbers is currently undergoing a major renovation and Graves will soon follow.  Across the board, pretty nice facilities at my alma mater.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on July 27, 2006, 11:34:30 am
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 27, 2006, 11:46:04 am
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?


Any truth to the idea that you post this stuff just to get a reaction?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on July 27, 2006, 03:14:08 pm
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?

Any truth to the idea that you post this stuff just to get a reaction?

Okay, you think I'm provoking . . . . if it's true will you apologize?  I'm not trying to be silly, just putting something out there that I heard.  This is the internet, isn't it?

Regardless, I don't think my question was much to react to, or controversial.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on July 27, 2006, 03:53:44 pm
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?

Any truth to the idea that you post this stuff just to get a reaction?

Okay, you think I'm provoking . . . . if it's true will you apologize?  I'm not trying to be silly, just putting something out there that I heard.  This is the internet, isn't it?

Regardless, I don't think my question was much to react to, or controversial.

Nothing to apologize for - at least I don't think there is.  I was just ribbing you a little.  ;)

It is interesting if you've actually heard that from a reliable source.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on July 28, 2006, 05:24:00 pm
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?

Makes sense.  Last fall's the Calvin v. Hope MIAA tourney match packed the Dow Center.  How many can be seated at the DeVos building volleyball court?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on August 18, 2006, 01:07:52 pm
A great story about a scholarship honoring a basketball player's selflessness:

http://www.hope.edu/pr/pressreleases/content/view/full/10516
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on August 30, 2006, 02:11:29 pm
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?

If you can weasel your way into DeVos right now, there is a court taped onto the main floor right now.  It could happen!  You can also see the anchors for the nets in a couple of the photos on the fieldhose website

http://www.hope.edu/pr/campusdev/devos.html#photos
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on September 15, 2006, 10:24:47 pm

Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?


Any truth to the idea that you post this stuff just to get a reaction?


If you can weasel your way into DeVos right now, there is a court taped onto the main floor right now.  It could happen!  You can also see the anchors for the nets in a couple of the photos on the fieldhose website

http://www.hope.edu/pr/campusdev/devos.html#photos

Do ya think I can get the 5 or 6 kamara points back? 

Don't upset the Dutch, they'll smite ya.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on September 19, 2006, 04:50:13 pm
Could it happen - sure, but you'll get no karma from me until they actually play a game on that taped court.  ;D


For all we know, it could just be an extra court for practicing.   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on September 23, 2006, 01:52:23 am
Could it happen - sure, but you'll get no karma from me until they actually play a game on that taped court.  ;D

For all we know, it could just be an extra court for practicing.   ;)

Will you be there Friday, October the 13th?  I cannot believe the Dutch will be pounded like they were at Calvin this week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on September 23, 2006, 01:55:59 am
Makes sense.  Last fall's the Calvin v. Hope MIAA tourney match packed the Dow Center.  How many can be seated at the DeVos building volleyball court?


Not to be picky . . . it's called the DeYoung Volleyball Gymnasium.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on September 25, 2006, 08:11:55 am
Could it happen - sure, but you'll get no karma from me until they actually play a game on that taped court.  ;D

For all we know, it could just be an extra court for practicing.   ;)

Will you be there Friday, October the 13th?  I cannot believe the Dutch will be pounded like they were at Calvin this week.

Unfortunately no - so I'll wait to here your analysis.  And I agree that it will be a much tighter match than in GR.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: PrideSportBBallGuy on October 04, 2006, 11:43:10 pm
This might have already been covered, so please get me caught up.   How are the defending National Champs going to do this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on October 05, 2006, 05:51:59 am
Could it happen - sure, but you'll get no karma from me until they actually play a game on that taped court.  ;D

For all we know, it could just be an extra court for practicing.   ;)

Will you be there Friday, October the 13th?  I cannot believe the Dutch will be pounded like they were at Calvin this week.

Unfortunately no - so I'll wait to here your analysis.  And I agree that it will be a much tighter match than in GR.

Heard Tri-State's volleyball team swept Kalamazoo at home last night. That win puts the Thunder right in the thick of the conference race.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 05, 2006, 08:09:10 am
This might have already been covered, so please get me caught up.   How are the defending National Champs going to do this year.

The graduates will certainly be missed (those Ebels girls were awesome), but that was an extremely deep team last year.  Henderson, Warsen, and Boles are returning starters, and all are juniors (actually Henderson is a senior, but was a medical red-shirt her freshman year, so she has junior eligibility). 

Wood, Jurik, Lange, and Kopke all played significant minutes and will continue to contribute.  The "3rd string " (all freshman last year) played often last year against 1st or 2nd string oppponents and typically still increased leads. 

Then add in that Coach Mo had a great recruiting year with these top notch players:

Jenny Cowens (Dexter HS, Mich.), Philana Green (Grandville HS, Mich.), Megan Mejeur (St. Joseph HS, Mich.)

and things are looking pretty bright for another great year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 05, 2006, 02:17:15 pm
Hope will definitely be the pre-season MIAA favorite and perhaps #1 ranked nationally. However, they are losing league co-MVP Bria Ebels, who was the key player in their tournament success. How will that affect team leadership and chemistry?

Calvin's team was almost all freshmen and sophomores last year, with one junior and one senior. Losing Sara Winkle will hurt, but the extra year of experience for the remainder of the team will certainly help. And the word is that Calvin will have a good new player to improve outside shooting.  The final Massey ratings had Hope #1 with power 27.6, Calvin at #26 nationally with power 9.2. Perhaps Calvin will be in the top 25 to start the season, and maybe less than an 18-point underdog to Hope.

Albion ended last year with a Massey power rating of 1. They are losing All-MIAA first-team Jamie Fornettie, who could dribble-drive around almost anyone in the league. Alma (power -1) is losing All-MIAA first-team Darcie Phillip and second-team Katey Peacock. Losing two key players will hurt.

Olivet ended last year with a power rating of -2. They aren't losing any All-MIAA players. St. Mary's (-6) is losing All-MIAA 2nd team Bridget Boyce.

Kalamazoo (power -10) is losing their only all-MIAA player, Stefanie Salasky. Adrian (-11) didn't have any All-MIAA players, so they aren't losing any.

Tri-State ended last year with a Massey power rating of -16. They're losing All-MIAA second team Shanna Hoogenboom (whose name would be right at home on Hope or Calvin's roster). Based on power rankings at the end of last season, they'll be a 43-point underdog to Hope.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on October 13, 2006, 10:04:17 pm
Any truth to the idea of Hope playing "big" volleyball matches during the 2006-2007 season on the main floor with a taped court?

Any truth to the idea that you post this stuff just to get a reaction?


Okay, you think I'm provoking . . . . if it's true will you apologize?  I'm not trying to be silly, just putting something out there that I heard.  This is the internet, isn't it?
Regardless, I don't think my question was much to react to, or controversial.

Nothing to apologize for - at least I don't think there is.  I was just ribbing you a little.  ;)
It is interesting if you've actually heard that from a reliable source.

Well, I saw the court tonight.  The Calvin v. Hope match was in the DeYoung Volleyball Gymnasium, not on the DeVos Fieldhouse court.

But the basketball court was taped off for volleyball.

Karma for the Flying Dutch Fan.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on October 13, 2006, 10:07:08 pm
Unfortunately no - so I'll wait to here your analysis.  And I agree that it will be a much tighter match than in GR.

The 3-1 Calvin victory does not tell the tightness of the match.  The Dutch definitely gave Calvin everything they could handle.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on October 13, 2006, 10:10:42 pm
Maybe so - but then it's not like you get 3400 people out to watch Volleyball.  I will still bet it's the best DIII volleyball court you could find.

While there were not 3400 fans, there were at least 250 people without seating.  We counted 142 standing in the enterance and sitting on the stairs and I was told there were another 150 in a room above the court (big windows and chairs to stand on).

BUT, the fans were loud, louder than it would have been if we'd been in the DeVos.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on October 13, 2006, 11:10:37 pm
The 3-1 Calvin victory does not tell the tightness of the match.  The Dutch definitely gave Calvin everything they could handle.

First time Hope has lost a competition in the DeVos building.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 21, 2006, 05:55:08 am
So is this the unofficial MIAA volleyball board?

Obviously the knights are doing well, sporting a shiny new 19-1 record. The only tough match they've had in the MIAA ended up as the first victory over a Dutch team at the DeVos in four games.

So how is it that they're ranked #17, when the other four one-loss teams in the AVCA top-25 (http://www.avca.org/collegiate/DIIIpoll/DIIIpoll10-17-06.asp) are ranked one through four? They've even played some ranked competition, beating #13 Witt and losing to #19 Ohio Nothern early in the season.

I suppose there's not much respect nationally for MIAA volleyball. But the tournament this weekend in which Calvin will play four non-MIAA teams should help, especially if Calvin can defeat #10 Central.

Is there some other place with information or discussion about volleyball?

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on October 21, 2006, 10:57:17 am
Playing "some" ranked competition is not enough to get the team ranked in the top four. Wash U, ranked number two, has wins against eight ranked teams and Division II UMSL (University of Missourri, St. Louis)

(Note: These are the oppenent's rankings at the date of the match)

Their only loss was at #1 Juniata College

Just wanted to throw a comparison out there, although, I agree that Calvin should be ranked higher than #17th.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 21, 2006, 07:27:35 pm
Playing "some" ranked competition is not enough to get the team ranked in the top four. Wash U, ranked number two, has wins against eight ranked teams and Division II UMSL (University of Missourri, St. Louis)

(Note: These are the oppenent's rankings at the date of the match)

Their only loss was at #1 Juniata College

Just wanted to throw a comparison out there, although, I agree that Calvin should be ranked higher than #17th.

Well, Calvin defeated four non-MIAA teams this weekend, without losing a game--including a 3-game victory against #10 Central. Maybe enough for the top 10?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on October 21, 2006, 09:55:58 pm
So is this the unofficial MIAA volleyball board?


Calvin defeated Central (IA) 30-23, 30-27, 30-25

CSTV/AVCA Division III Top 25 Coaches Poll (http://www.avca.org/collegiate/DIIIpoll/DIIIpoll10-17-06.asp)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on October 22, 2006, 04:06:39 am
Dark Night,

Should be enough for a top 10...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 23, 2006, 05:07:06 pm
It is time to talk basketball!

Other than Hope again finishing on top, does anyone have MIAA conference ranking predictions?

My rankings are based on last season's second half performances, and what I can gather about returning key players.

1. Hope

2. Calvin

3. St. Mary's

4. Albion

5. Kalamazoo

6. Olivet

7. Alma

8. Adrian

9. Tri-State

Albion did not look like the same team in the second half when Fornetti was limited by injury.  Is there anyone ready to step up and take her place.

It appears that St. Mary's has Kesler, Newsom and Lipke back.  This may be their year to move into the top tier.

In spite of their record, Kalamazoo was a better and more disciplined team under their new coach.  It looks like they have a taller team this year and if the new recruits come through it could be the Hornet's year to move out of the bottom tier.  I'm sure my #5 ranking is not in line with the CW. 

Olivet's effort to jump start the program with JC transfers fizziled in the second half.  Are any of the freshman listed on the pre-season roster likely to make an immediate impact?

Although Hope lost a couple of key performers to graduation, I understand that this year's recruits are very good.  There are even a couple of very sound players (that could be in the rotation for several MIAA teams) that will be getting PT on the JV.  A couple of last year's freshman should be ready to step up and make real contributions this year.

I would like to hear input from around the league so I can start putting together my "scouting reports" - I wouldn't want to enter the season unprepared :).

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 25, 2006, 04:05:09 pm
I'm afraid this really has become a volleyball board  :-[ 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on October 26, 2006, 02:20:49 am
Hope Women's Basketball roster (http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/wbb/wbbrost.html)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on October 26, 2006, 02:21:43 am
Calvin Women's Basketball roster (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/wbasket/roster.htm)

new comers?

04   Rachael Willett       Jr.   6-1   F       Rockford/Rockford
10   Allison Griswold      Fr.   5-5   G       Webberville/Lansing Christian
20   Marissa Walker      So.   5-7   G       Cedar Springs/Cedar Springs
23   Kelly Bennett          Fr.   5-4   G       Williamston/Williamston
24   Nikki Zimmerman   Jr.   5-6   G       Traverse City/Traverse City West
30   Brook VanEck         Fr.   5-9   F       Lowell/Lowell


Looks like Willett and Zimmerman transferred from Grand Valley State and Walker's the only player from last season's JV team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 26, 2006, 06:43:24 am
Calvin Women's Basketball roster (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/wbasket/roster.htm)

new comers?

04   Rachael Willett     Jr.   6-1   F       Rockford/Rockford
10   Allison Griswold    Fr.   5-5   G       Webberville/Lansing Christian
20   Marissa Walker      So.   5-7   G       Cedar Springs/Cedar Springs
23   Kelly Bennett       Fr.   5-4   G       Williamston/Williamston
24   Nikki Zimmerman     Jr.   5-6   G       Traverse City/Traverse City West
30   Brook VanEck        Fr.   5-9   F       Lowell/Lowell


Looks like Willett and Zimmerman transferred from Grand Valley State and Walker's the only player from last season's JV team.

I found bios at GVSU's web site for Rachel Willett (http://gvsulakers.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/willett_rachael00.html) and Nikki Zimmerman (http://gvsulakers.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/zimmerman_nikki00.html).

A pair of D-II transfers sounds promising. GVSU has a preseason #2 ranking in D-II. Sad to see that Willett lost an inch of height in the transfer.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on October 27, 2006, 10:57:30 pm
So is this the unofficial MIAA volleyball board?


Calvin d. Baldwin-Wallace 30-26, 30-25, 30-16

The nationally-ranked Calvin women’s volleyball team extended its win streak to 18 matches with a pair of victories Friday night at the Midwest Classic. Ranked 13th in the latest Division III Coaches’ poll, Calvin upped its season record to 27-1 with victories over Kalamazoo and Baldwin-Wallace Friday night.

The match against Baldwin-Wallace featured a meeting of nationally-ranked and regionally-ranked teams as the Yellow Jackets came into the match ranked 19th nationally and number-two in the Great Lakes Region. Calvin came into the match ranked number-one in the Great Lakes Region. The Knights are now 4-1 against nationally-ranked teams this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on October 27, 2006, 11:21:53 pm
Just thought I'd give props to Tri-State's women's volleyball team--the Thunder women won the most in-MIAA matches this year since they joined. (Between that success and the FB team's upset win over Olivet, it's been a good athletic week for Angola, IN.) ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 28, 2006, 06:24:16 am
I'm afraid this really has become a volleyball board  :-[ 

Calvin looked really dominant over Bald Wally, especially in that third game when the knights spotted B-W a 5-1 lead and then went on to win 30-16. Calvin's hitting, blocking, digging were all head and shoulders above BW's. Sometimes literally.

The only match Calvin has lost this year was one in which their starting setter, Katie Zondervan, was injured and only played part of the match. Zondervan leads the nation in assists per game, with 14.28, according to the NCAA stats (http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/rankings?sportCode=WVB) page.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on October 28, 2006, 04:27:15 pm

2006-07 MIAA Women's Basketball Composite Schedule (http://www.miaa.org/wbb/wbbsched.html)
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Oval on October 28, 2006, 04:32:32 pm
Friday
Calvin d. Kalamazoo 30-23, 30-24, 30-23
Hope d. Alma 25-30, 30-22, 30-12, 31-29

Saturday
Hope d. Kalamazoo 30-18, 30-17, 30-19
Calvin d. Alma 22-30, 30-22, 30-25, 30-14
Adrian d. Saint Mary's 30-22, 30-28, 26-30, 30-32, 15-13

That wraps-up the MIAA regular season title for Calvin .... their first since 1999.

Saturday's non-MIAA games:
Hope d. Baldwin-Wallace 30-15, 28-30, 30-27, 30-27
Calvin d. Muskingum 30-17, 30-21, 30-17
Alma d. Wheaton 30-25, 33-31, 30-28
Hanover d. Kalamazoo 30-16, 30-15, 30-18
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: hawk'ster on October 28, 2006, 04:48:32 pm
Calvin was 45 and 4 in the MIAA.  The MIAA web site (http://www.miaa.org/vb/stats/06/confsked.htm) also lists attendence at each match.

The Calvin/Hope matches were watched by 512 (Sep 19 at Calvin) and 700 (Oct 13 at Hope).

2006 MIAA volleyball matches with 200+ attendence:
700 .... Calvin at Hope
512 .... Hope at Calvin
450 .... St Marys at Hope
425 .... Alma at Hope
300 .... Kazoo at Adrian 
300 .... Tri-State at Hope
217 .... Calvin at Alma
205 .... Adrian at Calvin 
200 .... Albion at Hope
200 .... Hope at Adrian
200 .... Olivet at Adrian 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on October 29, 2006, 12:33:40 pm
The knights' 2006-07 season preview (http://www.calvin.edu/sports/preview/winter.htm#wbasket) is up.

Even though the knights had only one senior last year, they have only three returning starters. What became of Charis Larson?

With the added experience, new players, and two GVSU transfers, it sounds as though this team should be at least as strong as last year's team.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Bushop on November 01, 2006, 02:29:48 pm
Results

MIAA Volleyball Tournament

Monday
Play-in Match - Albion d. Olivet 30-22, 30-21, 30-14

Tuesday
Calvin d. Albion 30-23, 30-11, 30-17
Hope d. Kalamazoo 30-21, 30-21, 30-19
Adrian d. Tri-State 30-16, 30-21, 30-24
Saint Mary's d. Alma 26-30, 22-30, 30-23, 30-28, 15-11
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Bushop on November 01, 2006, 02:32:59 pm
Upcoming Games

MIAA Volleyball Tournament

Friday -- Semifinals at Calvin College
Adrian vs. Hope
Calvin vs. Saint Mary's

Saturday -- Finals at Calvin College
at Calvin regardless of Friday's winner

Title: Re: MIAA women's basketball rankings
Post by: Preto on November 01, 2006, 05:36:13 pm
USA TODAY ESPN DIVISION III TOP 25 COACHES' POLL (http://www.wbca.org/DIIICoachesPoll.asp)

02. Hope College (Mich.)
15. Calvin College (Mich.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 02, 2006, 10:56:49 am
D3hoops preseason poll has Hope 4th, and Calvin 13th.  Interesting that Hope had 7 first place votes, and the teams at 2 & 3 have a combined total of 3.  Obviously the voters have quite a difference of opinion on Hope.

A couple of good tests early for Hope, with a potential game against #9 Bald Wally on November 18 at the DeVos, and a game with #5 Wheaton on December 1 at Wheaton.  Wheaton was the only team to defeat the Dutch last year, so that should be a barn burner.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 02, 2006, 01:19:22 pm
If I may interrupt this volleyball board ( ;)) with a basketball announcement: The 2006-07 MIAA Coaches' Poll is up and to no one's surprise Hope is first and Calvin second. I was surprised to see that the Lady Knights did get 2 first place votes. Now, this board may return to its regularly scheduled volleyball programing.  :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on November 03, 2006, 01:07:07 am
I'm surprised with the rankings also, but I thought that people would look at the Calvin/ Hope matchup to be closer than what they have ranked it if not give Calvin the advantage.  Here is why.  Hope lost a lot of talent and leadership when the lost both Ebels at last years end.  Bria is the biggest loss seeing that Hope has a lot of talent at the post position, but I don't think Hope has a fill in for Bria, just like Calvin didn't have a fill in for Kristen McDonald after she left.  Calvin though is returning three starters- one being the all-american Lisa Winkle.  Combine her with a much improved Marcia Harris and a more experienced back court, the knights are quite threatening.  Plus with the GVSU transfers, one who will up the experience and bring a much needed quality sub in the post, and a guard who brings the shooting ability that haunted the knights last year.  I think this is the biggest key to the new Knights.  Last year teams could sit back and play a zone, which shuts down the paint and forces the outside shot, because the knights didn't have the shooters to shoot them out of the zone.  This year though, with the transfer and more experience in those freshmen from last year, it won't be as easy to just play zone against the knights.  I think that if the knights can gel as a team, you could see them filling hopes national champions shoes this year.  At least this is my take on the situation. 

In regards to Charis Larson, from what I have heard she just didn't work hard enough in the off season to keep her spot.  She has plenty of competition this year for that spot, and with her lack of effort to improve, got past over for someone who is working to improve and is showing that they want to play.  I heard it was a tough situation, but Coach Ross knew that he had to cut some people from last years team to improve the teams talent and how well they play as a team.  Charis was just one of the players that didn't pan out as planned.  And if you look back to last season and how much she produced, it wasn't very much.  And if you compare her sophemore season to her freshmen season, with the obvious understanding that with experience comes improvement, she actually declined in production.  Also, her defense, which was something that gained her time in her freshmen year, declined last year, which doesn't help matters.  So that is why from what I've heard Charis is no longer on the team.

But heres to another fun season, and I look forward to seeing how it pans out.  GO KNIGHTS!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 03, 2006, 09:23:11 am
Now, this board may return to its regularly scheduled volleyball programing.  :P

Massey came out with computer rankings for women's volleyball (http://mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cvol). Here are the top 20:

  1     Juniata                  32   1   1.168    3.03 (  1)   0.52 (  1) Mid Atl
  2     Washington MO            28   1   1.083    2.65 (  2)   0.48 (  3) UAA
  3     Calvin                   29   1   1.007    2.59 (  3)   0.13 ( 24) MIAA
  4 + 1 La Verne                 27   1   0.887    2.12 (  4)  -0.26 ( 55) SCIAC
  5 - 1 Concordia Mhd            22   1   0.864    2.03 (  5)   0.24 ( 13) MIAC
  6 + 1 WI Eau Claire            26   2   0.768    1.90 (  6)  -0.03 ( 35) WIAC
  7 + 1 WI Oshkosh               32   4   0.765    1.82 (  7)   0.24 ( 14) WIAC
  8 + 4 Wittenberg               30   6   0.703    1.82 ( 8 )   0.39 (  6) NCAC
  9     Hiram                    30   3   0.701    1.67 ( 12)  -0.15 ( 47) NCAC
 10 - 4 Carthage                 26   4   0.693    1.78 (  9)   0.14 ( 22) CCIW
 11     Baldwin-Wallace          26   6   0.643    1.70 ( 11)   0.38 (  7) OAC
 12 + 1 WI Whitewater            29   6   0.617    1.64 ( 13)   0.18 ( 18) WIAC
 13 - 3 Trinity TX               27   6   0.612    1.78 ( 10)   0.18 ( 19) SCAC
 14     Ohio Northern            27   8   0.606    1.62 ( 14)   0.43 (  4) OAC
 15 + 1 Linfield                 18   2   0.546    1.29 ( 17)  -0.29 ( 58) NWC
 16 + 1 Emory                    23   9   0.518    1.43 ( 16)   0.48 (  2) UAA
 17 - 2 Capital                  24   8   0.511    1.47 ( 15)   0.23 ( 15) OAC
 18     Central IA               23   8   0.481    1.26 ( 18)   0.29 ( 10) IIAC
 19 + 2 Hope                     22   8   0.473    1.17 ( 20)   0.24 ( 12) MIAA
 20 - 1 SW Univ TX               26   6   0.456    1.14 ( 21)  -0.22 ( 51) SCAC


Note that Calvin is #3, which seems to me much more appropriate based on their record than the AVCA's #12. Hope comes in at #19. St. Thomas (MN) is overrated, according to Masey. Otherwise, this computer ranking matches the AVCA poll surprisingly well.

Presumably Calvin has a lower ranking than other one-loss teams because of a schedule that is perceived as weak, but note that their schedule is really very solid, at 24th toughest in the nation. Juniata and Washington's schedules are 1 and 3 respectively, and Concordia is 13th. La Verne's is quite a bit easier than Calvin's, at 55th.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Bushop on November 03, 2006, 11:45:19 pm
Results

MIAA Volleyball Tournament

Friday -- Semifinals at Calvin College
Hope d. Adrian 26-30, 30-20, 23-30, 30-28, 15-12
Calvin d. Saint Mary’s 30-26, 30-27, 30-22

Upcoming Game

Saturday -- Championship at Calvin College
Calvin (31-1) versus Hope (24-8), 4 p.m.


- looks like St Marys gave Calvin a good challenge, three tight games.

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Bushop on November 04, 2006, 09:09:03 pm
Results

MIAA Volleyball Tournament

Saturday -- Championship at Calvin College
Calvin d. Hope 30-25, 30-27, 27-30, 25-30, 15-10


HOLY DUTCH.....either Calvin is a little down this weekend (see St Marys) or Hope has really stepped-up their game.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 05, 2006, 05:57:59 am
Saturday -- Championship at Calvin College
Calvin d. Hope 30-25, 30-27, 27-30, 25-30, 15-10[/font][/size]

HOLY DUTCH.....either Calvin is alittle down this weekend (see St Marys) or Hope has really stepped-up their game.


I don't think this is a "down" result. Even if Calvin were the best team in the nation I'd expect a tight match from Massey #19 and arch-rival Hope, in the MIAA tournament final, competing for the NCAA auto bid.
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 06, 2006, 04:33:15 pm
The NCAA volleyball tournament bracket (http://www.ncaasports.com/volleyball/womens/brackets/viewable/straight64_dyn/2006/DIII) is out. The tournament is done over two weekends, three games this weekend at regionals (Calvin for the Great Lakes), and 3 games next weekend in Salem.

4 of the 8 teams in the Great Lakes regional are ranked in the top 25 by the AVCA. To get a trip to Salem, the highest-ranked team #12 Calvin or Hope might have to face is #11 Wittenberg, whom Calvin defeated 3-1 earlier in the season. To get to the final four, they might have to defeat #7 Trinity (TX).

The Midwest regional is the toughest, with #4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10. #1 Juniata is the only ranked team in the Mid-Atlantic, and there are none in the New England regionals.

Interestingly, for most ranked teams, the AVCA poll position matches the Massey computer ranking pretty closely -- within one position in 8 of 10 cases for West/Midwest teams. Every single ranked team in the South region is overrated, according to Massey, and every single ranked team in the Great Lakes regional is underrated, according to Massey. (Sounds like basketball polls!)

South: #13 Emory should be #16, according to Massey. #17 Austin should be #28. #16 Southwestern (TX) should be #20. #7 Trinity should be #13.

Great Lakes: #11 Wittenberg should be #8. #15 Hiram should be #9. #20 Ohio Northern should be #14. Unranked Hope should be #19. #12 Calvin should be #3.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Bushop on November 07, 2006, 11:41:29 pm
2006 Volleyball All-MIAA Honors

Most Valuable Player: Kristen Kalb, Calvin
(senior from Stow, Ohio/Stow Munroe Falls HS)

Freshman of The Year: Lorna Slupczynski, Saint Mary's
(freshman from St. John, Ind./Andrean HS)

Defensive Player of the Year: Anne Cusack, Saint Mary's
(senior from Napervile, Ill./Naperville North HS)

Coach of the Year: Amber Warners, Calvin

ALL-MIAA FIRST TEAM
Molly Krikke, Calvin* (junior from Greenwich, Ohio/South Central HS)
Kristen Kalb, Calvin* (senior from Stow, Ohio/Stow Munroe Falls HS)
Katie Zondervan, Calvin*** (junior from Lakewood, Calif./Valley Christian HS)
Abby Sikora, Adrian* (senior from Ceresco/Harper Creek HS)
Deena Van Assen, Hope* (senior from Jenison/Jenison HS)
Lindsey Eshelman, Adrian** (junior from Adrian/Adrian HS)
Anne Cusack, Saint Mary's* (senior from Napervile, Ill./Naperville North HS)
Amber Hoezee, Hope** (senior from Jenison/Jenison HS)
Kelsee Krull, Alma* (senior from Midland/Dow HS)
* denotes number of years All-MIAA first team

ALL-MIAA SECOND TEAM
Nora Slenk, Hope (sophomore from Holland/Holland Christian HS)
Lauren DeGroot, Calvin (sophomore from Tulare, Calif./Central Valley Christian)
Kristen Playko, Saint Mary's (senior from Norwalk, Ohio/Saint Paulís HS)
Lorilyn Vogel, Calvin (senior from Orange City, Iowa/Unity Christian HS)
Kim Gillhespy, Alma (sophomore from Cedar Springs/Cedar Springs HS)
Sarah Slamer, Albion (senior from Battle Creek/BC Central HS)
Sara Morningstar, Adrian (junior from Addison/Addison HS)
Kaylee Sova, Alma (senior from Freeland/Freeland HS)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 09, 2006, 06:18:26 pm
Lisa Winkle and Jordyn Boles made the pre-season AA team.....4th and HM resectively.

http://d3hoops.com/tow/wompreallam07.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on November 09, 2006, 08:37:36 pm
NCAA Div III Volleyball Tournament update:

Hope defeated Ohio Northern, 3 games to 1.  ;)

BTW, Wittenberg and Hiram won 3-1, and 3-0 respectively in the other bracket.

NEWS FLASH:  Calvin swept Nazareth, 3-0. Calvin vs. Hope tomorrow.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Bushop on November 09, 2006, 11:01:58 pm
Friday Semi-Final Matches
Wittenberg vs. Hiram, 4:30 p.m.
Hope vs. Calvin, 7 p.m.

4th time's a charm, Hope wins.
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: WLCALUM83 on November 10, 2006, 08:02:16 am
Which NCAC team would you rather the Calvin/Hope winner get in the regional final?
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 10, 2006, 08:31:24 am
Which NCAC team would you rather the Calvin/Hope winner get in the regional final?

Calvin beat Witt 3-1 early in the season, the last two games with the score of 30-13. (When the knights are on a roll, they can be scary.) As far as Massey is concerned Witt and Hiram are two peas in a pod. However, recent results could suggest that Hiram has been improving over the season, like Hope.

Interestingly, this will also be a fourth meeting for Witt and Hiram, with Witt taking the two conference matches and Hiram winning a tight 5-game match in the conference tournament.

However, I think Calvin will take the region in two tight matches, breeze past the south region champ, and be competitive in the final four. (Biased? me?)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on November 10, 2006, 05:13:50 pm
The Hope/Calvin VB match tonight will be broadcast live.  I wonder how exciting volleyball is on the radio (especially for a rather novice volleyball fan like myself)....

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/ram/calvinsports.ram
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball.
Post by: WLCALUM83 on November 10, 2006, 06:49:49 pm
Wittenberg over  Hiram in a 5-gamer.
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: WLCALUM83 on November 10, 2006, 09:19:56 pm
Calvin over Hope, 3 games to 1.

To quote Yogi Berra:  "Deja vu all over again."
(another Wittenberg/Calvin regional final). :) ;) :D
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 11, 2006, 08:15:47 am
Yesterday's match between Calvin and Hope had an attendance of 1123. Avca.org has the largest attendance for a DIII volleyball match up through Nov. 8 as 1068 (Wisconsin-Platteville vs. Loras) so last night's match could have had the largest attendance of any match this year.
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: WLCALUM83 on November 11, 2006, 08:32:23 pm
Final volleyball result just in:  Wittenberg 3, Calvin 0.  :-X
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on November 12, 2006, 07:05:45 am
Final volleyball result just in:  Wittenberg 3, Calvin 0.  :-X

How sad. The knights fell behind early, and then it looked like they were off their normal game, playing tight perhaps. Witt had some excellent blocking, and that also put the knights off their game.

Still, a great season. Congrats to the knights.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: hawk'ster on November 16, 2006, 11:02:44 am
2006 AVCA NCAA Division III All-America Volleyball Team (http://www.avca.org/collegiate/DIIIawards/06DIIIAA.asp)

AVCA DIVISION III FIRST-TEAM ALL-AMERICA
Kristen Kalb   Calvin College   OH   Jr.   5-9   Stow, Ohio

AVCA DIVISION III SECOND-TEAM ALL-AMERICA
Molly Krikke   Calvin College   MB   Jr.   5-11   Greenwich, Ohio
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 17, 2006, 04:22:44 pm
Basketball season!!

The Calvin women play Johnson and Wales. (?? whoever that is ??)

Hope plays Davenport. (Do they even have a basketball team? I guess they must.)

Albion plays Defiance, 6-20 last year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 17, 2006, 04:55:49 pm
Actually the Davenport womens team is very good.  They made the NAIA national tournament last year with a record of 28-6.
Title: Re: MIAA w basketball
Post by: Harrier on November 17, 2006, 10:12:16 pm
Thanks for the volleyball posts .... but I'd like to see a lot more women's basketball info on the board.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 17, 2006, 10:32:38 pm
the hope girls won  tonight    the line up looked really good they are going to be really tough this year  1-0
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: WLCALUM83 on November 17, 2006, 10:41:46 pm
Just to close out the volleyball talk, the Wittenberg team that beat Calvin got down to the Final 4-- only to lose to Juniata for the second year in a row. It'll be a Juniata/Washington-St. Louis final. Heard both of those squads had only one loss each all season. (Just put that in for the volleyball Border Battle fans out there).

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: admittedlydutch on November 18, 2006, 12:09:17 pm
the hope girls won  tonight    the line up looked really good they are going to be really tough this year  1-0

With two solid starters graduating this past year, I was interested to see what would happen in terms of starters and such.  This women's team is deep -- that was pretty apparent last year as well.  Everyone got off the bench last night against a pretty decent Davenport team (28-5 regular season last year).  The box score says it all: http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0607/1117hodv.htm.  Strong scoring across the board, and no Hope player over 30 minutes of play.

Should be a terrific year...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 18, 2006, 12:52:53 pm
What I found most impressive about the Hope game last night was the fact that the first 4 off the bench were a junior and 3 freshman.  A really talented and really deep team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 18, 2006, 09:01:33 pm
what a good  game today for hope  now  2-0
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on November 19, 2006, 03:20:01 pm
The thing that scared me about the Hope games was the 44 turnovers in two games!  They committed 20 against Davenport and 24 against BW.  They will need to clean that up to try and repeat what they did last year!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 20, 2006, 09:52:16 am
SKOT the turnover number does give one pause, but I think there are reasons to expect that number to improve.

A lot of players are still learning the system and getting to know each others game.  Three freshman saw extensive action and in the BW game 2 sophmores and three freshman played the final 5 or 6 minutes of the first half.  (The Dutch shoud be fun to watch for the forseeable future).

The Dutch played very aggressive offense and constantly pushed the ball up court.  Some of the long passes were just out of reach.  The timing will improve with each game.

Something tells me that Coach Morehouse will not except the factors above as reasonable excuses and turnovers will be an issue at practice.  I do not think Hope will alter their style.  We should expect to see a lot of players getting minutes and aggressive offense and defense all the time.

In spite of the turnovers, Hope got past an elite eight team when other ranked teams such as Wheaton and Scranton fell to unranked foes.
Title: Re: MIAA w basketball
Post by: Flea on November 22, 2006, 12:38:14 am
Thanks for the volleyball posts .... but I'd like to see a lot more women's basketball info on the board.

Then post it.  I liked having some volleyball stuff while basketball is slow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 22, 2006, 06:46:04 am
Last night's home opener for the Knights was a big game, against NAIA #14 Aquinas, who already had played 6 games. Both teams came out playing intense defense. In the first 10 minutes of the game, Calvin held Aquinas to 11 points. Unfortunately, in the same time period, Aquinas held Calvin to zero. I don't know that I've ever seen a team go 10 minutes without scoring. And I'm not sure I'd really attribute it to Aquinas' defense, at least not all -- there were several good shots, but nothing was dropping -- literally. 3-point attempts, mid-range jump shots, layups, free-throws, it didn't matter, nothing went in. Calvin missed their first 11 shots, and added 8 turnovers in the first 10 minutes for good measure. Their defense kept them in the game, which was 11-0 at the 10-minute mark.

During the second part of the first half, the knights started to find the mark offensively and it went back and forth for a couple of minutes. Then Calvin went on a 13-2 run for the final 7 minutes of the half, ending with a 3-pointer just before the buzzer, to end up trailing by 3 at the half, 22-19.

In the second half, All-American Lisa Winkle quickly picked up fouls #3 and 4, and she sat most of the rest of the game. Aquinas built their lead back up to 41-30. Then the knights' offense started to get in sync, with good efforts by various knights including freshmen Brook VanEck and Allison Griswold, and transfer Rachel Willet ably filled in for Winkle, playing good defense, scoring 8 points, and pulling down 10 rebounds. She had a couple of nice Aultman-like post moves. The knights scored 51 points in the second half, to Aquinas' 36, and the game ended with the knights on top 70-58.

After starting with 11 misses, the knights ended up hitting a very respectable 22 of 50 field goals, for 44%, including 7 of 14 treys. They made 25 turnovers, but many of them resulted from an apparent attempt to push the ball up court as fast as possible against a full court press. There were numerous half-court passes, many of which didn't find the mark. I'd guess the accuracy of such plays will increase as the season progresses.

Next up is an even bigger test, at DIII #5 Wheaton.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on November 22, 2006, 01:10:25 pm

Next up is an even bigger test, at DIII #5 Wheaton.


I don't see Calvin beating the Thunder this season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 22, 2006, 07:06:36 pm
I don't see Calvin beating the Thunder this season.

Any reasoning behind your pronouncement?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on November 22, 2006, 09:53:52 pm
I think Calvin caught Wheaton by surprise last season.  Plus they play in the windy city.  Harris handled the Wheaton post players, I don't think we'll see a repeat of that again either.

What do you think?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on November 23, 2006, 06:14:39 am
I think Calvin caught Wheaton by surprise last season.  Plus they play in the windy city.  Harris handled the Wheaton post players, I don't think we'll see a repeat of that again either.

What do you think?

I agree that last year's game seemed to be a bit of an abberation, especially since Wheaton defeated Hope the same weekend. However, Wheaton's high pre-season ranking is based on four returning starters, and one of them hasn't played so far this year due to injury. Two important subs didn't return to the team, and the Wheaton coach says that "depth will be a concern."  Wheaton has already lost by 9 at home to unranked Wilmington.

The knights are better now than they were at this time last year, I think. Last year's back court was all freshmen and sophomores, and this year they all have a year of experience, plus some newcomers to add depth. And based on the Aquinas game, Calvin will play an up-tempo, fast-break offense that will take advantage of Calvin's depth and athleticism.

So, I think Calvin has a good shot at it.
Title: Re: MIAA women's basketball
Post by: Bushop on November 23, 2006, 10:49:33 pm

Next up is an even bigger test, at DIII #5 Wheaton.


I don't see Calvin beating the Thunder this season.

I should write .... until the NCAA tourney.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 28, 2006, 03:00:21 pm
New top 25 is out.  Hope at #2, only 5 points out of first.  Calvin also breaks into the top 10 at #9
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 28, 2006, 09:51:44 pm
the  hope girls  won tonight    first game in  miaa  beat  saint marys
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 28, 2006, 11:55:50 pm
I took in the Hope/St.Mary's game tonight which Hope won 67-42.

Boy can those ladies play defense.  They just stiffled the Belles all night.  I believe the score would have been much worse had Hope not struggled to shoot the ball  to start, but StM led 6-2 then Hope held them scoreless for the next 7-8 minutes but Hope really didn't pour in the points either, although it was a 15-0 run.

St Mary's shot under 30% for the game, committed 29 turnovers, 19 of those register as Hope steals.  Their leading scorer averaging 19 a game was held to 10 but had only 3 with 10 minutes to go.

 I didn't see a whole lot of last years Hope team but from what I did see there are two glaring differences between last year and this year  1)  they have a distinct lack of 3 point shooters  2)  No Bria Ebels and her basketball shoes full of energy and 5-8 plays a game no other ladie on the floor could make.

Right now their defense is way ahead of their offense which sometimes resembled a jumbled mess, but the defense was sound and quick to double and pressure.

Perhaps the most impressive thing is the 3 Freshman who come off the bench.  All 3 are very solid and sound ball players particularly Cowen and Greene.  As they get better, Hope will get better.  Very impresssed with how well these 3 played D, not something Fr are always adept at doing.


So at least for tonight I was able to satisfy my craving for a good basketball hot dog, felt good to be back in DeVos.


Felt really weird to walk outside into the warmer great outdoors afterwards.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on November 29, 2006, 12:16:12 am
Has John Ross coached Calvin team ever beaten Hope?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on November 30, 2006, 02:36:25 am
Yes a John Ross coached team has beaten Hope.  It happened in the MIAA tournament in 2005.  Kristen McDonald scored 40 and the knights won by 6.  That was the most recent.  They also beat hope in his first year as coach by 12 in their second meeting during the regular season.  Overall though, Ross coached Calvin teams are 2-6 verse hope.
One thing to remember though is that in all of those meetings you have had Bria Ebels playing for hope, along with Linda Ebels and a lot of the other nucleas of last years championship team.  So going 2-6 against them in that time is actually not that bad.  It will be interesting to see what happens this year seeing that Hope's core of the past couple years has now graduated.  Sac's two differences that he sees in the hope team this year already is what I kind of thought might happen this year.  So I'm excited to see what happens.  Maybe by the end of this year Ross's record vs hope will be 5-6, but here is hoping (no pun intended).
Anyone else have any thoughts about the season at hand? Any predictions?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on December 01, 2006, 09:09:59 pm
WHEATON 49 Calvin 46
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 01, 2006, 11:19:46 pm
The other ladies final

Hope 65 Carthage 51

Should be quit a tilt between Wheaton and Hope tommorrow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 02, 2006, 03:53:38 pm
Calvin over Carthage 83-61, despite 23 turnovers. Carthage didn't have an answer for Calvin's front line, and Calvin shot three-pointers well too.

Lisa Winkle (21 points, 14 rebounds) became Calvin's all-time leading scorer and rebounder in this game. Congrats!


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on December 02, 2006, 07:41:23 pm
As the men stunk it up this weekend, Hope still has the women to cheer for as they defeated Wheaton 83-81 in OT. Congrats ladies on another win against a formidable in-region opponent!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on December 06, 2006, 09:43:15 pm
RESULTS
Wednesday, December 6


Calvin 86, Kalamazoo 58
Saint Mary’s 56, Adrian 48
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 07, 2006, 09:38:00 am
The knights only have two more non-MIAA games on the schedule: Puget Sound and Cal Lutheran. Puget Sound will be a challenge, though Calvin should be a slight favorite. Cal Lutheran should be less of a challenge.

I think the CCIW results suggest something close to parity between Calvin and Hope, at least for that weekend: although Hope went 2-0 to Calvin's 1-1, Calvin had a +19 total point differential to Hope's +16. Both MIAA teams did a little worse on Friday (after the long drive) than on Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowman on December 08, 2006, 04:09:45 pm
What do the Knight need to do to challenge this Dutch this season?  I thought Calvin would come out stronger, now I doubt they can stay with Hope for 40 minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 08, 2006, 09:18:39 pm
Dark Knight I think your analysis ignores the elephant in the room.  Hope and Calvin have played two common opponents and while both beat Carthage, only Hope beat the stronger team Wheaton.

Point differentials are meaningless - especially when achieved at the expense of a much weaker team.  Carthage is a decent team with three solid players, but not much depth.  Hope played all 15 players and their minutes were much more broadly distributed than Calvin's vs. Carthage.  On Saturday, Carthage played Calvin tough in the first half, but just ran out of steam in second.  The Knights continued to play Winkle and Harris late in the game even after the outcome was a foregone conclusion and Carthage was playing the end of the bench.  Was this strategy employed in an attempt to run up the score or because Calvin lacks depth in the post?

After last weekend I think it is obvious that Hope is much deeper than Calvin.  Against Wheaton, Calvin played ten players, but two made only cameo appearances.  Hope played 11 players vs. Wheaton and none played less than nine minutes (the box score mins are wrong due to an incorrect substitution in the play-by-play).  Over the past couple of seasons Hope has won several games because they were stronger at the finish.  Hope's depth at post is likely to wear on Harris and Winkle over the course of the game.

Calvin is a strong team and I am sure they will give Hope a tough challenge.  But I have to give Hope the edge due their depth, three point shooting and proven ability to come through in the clutch and win close games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 09, 2006, 05:22:39 pm
the hope  girls won today  87 to  57  over tri state at  tri state 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 16, 2006, 09:57:16 pm
Calvin defeated Alma 75-50. I didn't see the game but the report is that Alma tried a tight 2-3 zone and double- and triple-teamed inside. That sounds like a good strategy against Calvin, who have a very strong front line and questionable outside shooting.

However, the knights responded with 54.5% shooting from 3-point range, including 7 of 11 for 64% in the second half. Freshman Allison Griswold was 4 for 7 from 3-point range and Kelly Trewhella was 3 for 5. The continued development of a perimeter game to go with the inside game bodes well for the rest of the season! The knights still had 20 turnovers, though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 20, 2006, 09:54:23 pm
hope beat albion tonight  68 to  58
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 20, 2006, 11:56:32 pm
Made it out to DeVos to see the ladies play Albion.  Pretty good action tonight.  A nice crowd of just over 1000......but pretty much a "how ya doing" social crowd.

Albion jumped all over Hope early hitting their first 4 shots before Hope got on the board, then made their fifth to lead 10-2.  Within a couple minutes it was Hope 11 Albion 10.  It was back and forth for a few minutes.......with the score tied at 20, Albion hits back-to-back threes to go up 26-20.  There were more than a few murmurs around the crowd at that point.

Over the final four minutes of the 1st half Hope outscored Albion 14-2 to lead 34-28 I believe, maybe it was 36-28........forget.

So Albion needs to start the 2nd half strong right.......Hope gets the opening inbounds nails a 3, then converts a missed Albion shot into a quick deuce and with 30 seconds Hope has a nice 11 or 13 point lead.  They ran off a run of 21-2 after trailing by 6 to take firm command of this one.

The lead stayed around 15-16 with Albion makeing a couple nice surgess to try and stay in it, those girls never quit.  Albion got it down to 13 with some serious mo and then Philana Greene kind of took over a couple possesions scoreing 5 of 7 Hope points including a beauty of a pick pocket at midcourt..........lead back to 20.

Albion still didn't quit and got it back to 9 before Hope finally put it away.  Hope really tried to keep up a high pace in this one and had several break out baskets in the 2nd stanza.  Albion kind of ran out of gas at the end, as they aren't as deep as Hope.....but who is?.  A nice solid win that extends the Hope win streak to 38 games.

I saw some great post entry passes tonight from both teams and some overall pretty good teamwork.......alot of "extra" passes on the blocks.

Hope won't be happy with the way they played, they were very sloppy with the ball at times, and one of Albion's 6 or 8 points runs in the second was the result of 4 straight posessions with bad passes.  They didn't shoot well overall and were a horrid 12-25 from the stripe.  Its a little scary to think how easily Hope could have won with some better execution.  But surely Albion is to be credited some for their defensive effort.  This is still a developing Hope squad, at one point it was Fr, Fr, So, Jr, Fr on the floor and they extended the lead.


The Hope win streak gets put to a serious test next week when they meet Division II U of Missouri-St. Louis (2-4) down in Hanover, In.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on December 21, 2006, 08:22:30 am
I don't think that Hope's win streak will be tested down in Hanover if Hope is as good as everyone thinks.  I've seen the UM-St. Louis team play, and they aren't that good of a team.  They have size, and they're Div. II, but really that's all I can say for them.  There strength is there inside game, and one good three point shooter.  There starters log the majority of their minutes, so Hope's deep bench should wear them down.

Merry Christmas MIAA!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 22, 2006, 07:34:21 am
Some interesting league stats.

Calvin leads the league in FG%, 3FG%, and defense in the same categories. But Calvin is last place in FT% --  ??? 

I didn't expect to see Calvin in first place in 3FG% since that was a weakness last year. Looks like they've corrected it -- for the most part. Season average is .370, but in their loss to Wheaton they shot 2 for 15, for .133.

Calvin also leads the league in assists, turnover margin, steals, and assist/turnover ratio. I didn't necessarily expect that for turnover margin. I guess it results from their stingy defense and high number of steals, since they're tied for last place in turnovers per game!

Calvin also leads the league in scoring margin, which is always nice. But one that surprises me is that Calvin is 5th place in rebound margin and last place in offensive rebounds, despite having the league's top rebounder in Lisa Winkle. Calvin gets 11.3 offensive rebounds per game to league-leading Hope's 17.5. Any theories on why that might be?


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 22, 2006, 08:14:03 am
Your answer might be in your first sentence.


Calvin leads the league in FG%, 3FG%,
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope7 on December 24, 2006, 09:21:19 am
merry x mas
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on December 24, 2006, 12:18:23 pm
Your answer might be in your first sentence.
Calvin leads the league in FG%, 3FG%,

Good point. However, I don't think that can be the whole answer -- Calvin and Hope's shooting percentages are fairly close at .469 and .453, while offensive rebounding averages are 17.5 and 11.3.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 29, 2006, 11:09:07 pm
hope won tonight  82 to  74  over missouri-st louis 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 30, 2006, 06:06:27 pm
hope girls won today  78 to 38   ill colledge  to go to  9-0
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 04, 2007, 09:29:19 pm
Nice win for the knights today over a pretty solid Albion team, 84-60. Before tonight Albion's record was 6 and 6, but one of those losses was to #11 Wilmington by 1 point, one to #2 Hope by 8 points, and one to [#26] Puget Sound, by 3.

The knights looked very sharp. There were only about 12 turnovers before garbage time, 24 assists, and 11 of 21 three point attempts. The defense was very tough at times, but there were a few lax stretches.

Compared to last year, the knights have almost of the key pieces plus a number of nice additions who are getting signficant playing time (or starting, in the case of Zimmerman). Should be fun MIAA race!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 04, 2007, 09:48:41 pm
Hope women moved into 3rd place all time for DIII winning streaks (42 in a row) by beating Adrian tonight 82-47. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on January 04, 2007, 10:02:56 pm
SCORES
January 4, 2006

Calvin 84, Albion 60
Olivet 82, Saint Mary's 63
Hope 82, Adrian 47
Alma 73, Tri-State 57
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 05, 2007, 05:27:24 am
Nice win for the knights today over a pretty solid Albion team, 84-60. Before tonight Albion's record was 6 and 6, but one of those losses one to #2 Hope by 8 points,

Not sure where you got 8, Hope won that one 68-56 and Hope led by 20 with 7 minutes to go.

That should be one great matchup next weekend though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on January 06, 2007, 04:46:14 pm
Calvin in a squeaker over St. Mary's, 53-52.  St Mary's throws a "hail self"  :D off the front rim as time runs out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on January 07, 2007, 03:27:12 pm
SCORES
January 6, 2007

Albion 86, Tri-State 53
Adrian 65, Olivet 56
Calvin 53, Saint Mary's 52 -- oh my
Kalamazoo 66, Alma 58
Hope 79, Rochester 33
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 07, 2007, 03:52:29 pm
I didn't realize it untill yesterday but it will be possible to watch the Hope/Calvin men's game next Saturday in GR and then pile into a car and head over to DeVos to watch the women's game.

Anyone else plannning on doing this?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Green Hornet on January 07, 2007, 03:58:38 pm
I'm just going to go to the girl's game. Super pumped. I hope the Calvin girls give them a run for their money.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on January 07, 2007, 06:33:29 pm
I'm just going to go to the girl's game. Super pumped. I hope the Calvin girls give them a run for their money.

Calvin seems to be struggling in many ways.  The Knights are going to need to be much more physical to match-up with the Dutch.  I'm afraid Wood will have her way with them just like last season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 07, 2007, 07:06:58 pm
sac  me and my kids are planning on doing this i think no  problem the mens game will be done around  4.00   then we are going  straight to the girls game 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 10, 2007, 05:29:48 am
New Massey power ratings are out. The MIAA is strong -- the fifth-strongest conference.

RankPower
Hope 318.4
Calvin 714.0
Albion782.4
Adrian104-3.1
Olivet161-5.9
St.Mary's136-3.8
Alma165-8.4
Kalamazoo235-15.4
Tri-State268-17.3

The #3 vs. #7 match next Saturday should be a good one -- Massey makes Hope about an 8-point favorite at the DeVos, with home court advantage. However, I agree that Calvin had problems containing Wood last year.

This year maybe they'll have a better strategy. Knock on Wood.  ;)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bushop on January 10, 2007, 10:21:06 pm
SCORES
January 10, 2007

Alma 77, Adrian 71
Hope 92, Olivet 63
Calvin 79, Tri-State 40
Albion 80, Kalamazoo 42
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 11, 2007, 02:35:12 pm
Dark Knight:

I am also looking forward to the game Saturday evening and believe it will be a good one.  Hope needs a challenge because thirty to forty point victories are not great preparation for post-season play.

Post play will certainly be important to the final outcome.  Wood had great success against Calvin last year, but if the Knights will have to do more than stop one player to beat the Dutch.

Hope is a much more balanced team than Calvin.   I have only seen the lady Knights play once this year, but from that brief observation and a review of the statistics they seem very dependent on Winkle and Harris.  Both play a lot of minutes and are the leading scorers.

Hope's minutes and points are more evenly distributed and they are a very balanced team.  The post players have been very productive, but if a team chooses to collapse to the middle and double or triple team inside (as Olivet did Wednessday) Boles and Jurik will make them pay from the outside.  Take away the perimeter and Hope's bigger and stronger post players can dominate the middle.

At the skill level and in three point shooting I have to give the edge to Hope's guards.  In the post I think Hope has a potential advantage with depth, size and better quality bench players.  Wood starts and averages 18 mins/8.5 pts, Lange comes in with 14 mins / 7.2 pts, and Knox fills in with 9 mins / 4.2 pts.  Combined the 5 position has produced 20 pts and 14.3 rbds per game (in 40 avg combined mins).  All three centers are listed at 6'2" and are typically stronger than their opponents.  At the 4 position Warsen and O'Hare contribute 13 pts / 9 rbds per game (in 33 avg mins) and Warsen is a much improved offensive player this year.

I think the game will come down to how effectively Hope's perimeter players shoot and whether Harris and Winkle can contend with better rested, bigger opponents.  If either has foul trouble the advantage will quickly tilt to Hope.  The Dutch centers have shot 117 free throws and made 68% from the line, but Ellen has made 73% of her forty, so it will probably not be a good idea to knock on Wood ;).


 

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 11, 2007, 02:51:23 pm
Before someone else points it out, I will correct myself on one point  :(.  Hopefully, it will be my last mistake on this board.

A quick review of the statistics indicates that Calvin has shot the three more often with a little better success than Hope (.388 vs. .378).

It will be interesting to see how each team does versus more intense defensive pressure than they have typically encountered.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 11, 2007, 06:57:00 pm
Hope's Jordyn Boles......26 points in 18 minutes vs Olivet.    Efficient 8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 13, 2007, 10:18:58 pm
Calvin 60 Hope 57

A congrats to the Knights for snapping the very impressive 44 game winning streak of the Flying Dutch.

Very similar game to the men in that it basically came down to the final 4 or 5 minutes.  Calvin executed, Hope did not.  The difference to me was Calvin's interior defense and in the first half their rebounding.

However the first 15 minutes was simply the worst 15 minutes I've seen an organized team play basketball.  wow

No matter how open the blonde in the fouth row is, its simply not a good pass.........the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th time.   :o


after a Hope FT the score was 7-5 Calvin at the 15:30 mark, 10 minutes later it was 20-11 Calvin but Hope's posessions over that time included and I'm not kidding here...........


1 for 11 shooting including 4 straight misses on one posession, and ELEVEN turnovers and many of those were the passes into the bleacher variety or just simply handing the ball to a player from Calvin.

Despite that stretch Hope somehow stayed within reach and made a game of it in the second half.  However that 15 minutes will haunt them.    The final stats ended up pretty even overall and again it came down to executing down the stretch Calvin did, Hope did not.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on January 13, 2007, 10:46:30 pm
I was surprised how quiet the crowd of 2,911 was.  The Hope fans roared after the Dutch got back in the game and took a lead.  I strongly believe that if the crowd had been with the team throughout the game,  Calvin would've been cooked.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on January 14, 2007, 12:00:02 am
scores
Jan 13

Olivet 75, Alma 63
St Marys 72, Kazoo 40
3State 74, Adrian 69
Calvin 60, Hope 57
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 14, 2007, 10:12:47 am
The agony of defeat....

As a Hope fan it is tempting to blame the loss last night on inconsistent refing in the first half, or bad luck on a couple of close shots that would just not fall.  However, I think that in the end we have to acknowledge that Calvin won because came into the game with a near perfect strategy, and maintained the discipline to execute that strategy when the game tightened. 

Also, Hope's performance in the early minutes of the game once again put them in a hole.  Against a weak team it is possible to recover from early turnovers and one pass and a missed shot offense, but last night there was not enough time to pull it out against a good, disciplined and well coached team.  It would have been nice if the crowd was more into it early, but sometimes you need something to cheer about.

Calvin's Strategy: (Just my impressions as an observer - as coaches say "I haven't yet reviewed the film" :))

Calvin altered the starting lineup in a very surprising way.  Harris was on the bench and Willet started.  The first thing that went through my mind was that Harris must have violated a team rule, but I quickly saw that Ross was determined to keep at least one skilled big player on the court all the time and at the same time create a size mismatch against Hope's relatively small 4 position (power forward) players.  Calvin was content to let Hope's centers get their points by never double teaming in the post as long as they were able to neutralize the 4s, take away the perimeter shot and make it difficult for  Greene and Henderson to drive to the basket.

For the minutes she played and the shots she took, Willet's numbers are not impressive, but her size on defense made a huge difference.  Hope got only 6 pts and 4 rbds from the 4 position.  Calvins big players "stayed home" on defense with there hands high and made driving the basket very difficult.  This allowed the Knights guards to play tough, tight defense on the perimeter and pressure the ball all the time.

On the offensive end Calvin's inside mismatch seemed to pull Hope's guards to the middle to help which opened up the floor for some nice mid-range shots.  I was also impressed with the way Calvin moved the ball.

In the end, the closeness of the final score is a testament to Hope's ability to fight back and play tough defense.  Hopefully, last night is a wake up call for the team to not get in the hole early.

I was impressed with the play of Wood and Lange against the toughest competition they have faced this year.  Perhaps last night's game will give Hope some ideas on how to use its size to greater advantage in the future.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Green Hornet on January 14, 2007, 10:35:57 am
What a sad loss. Sitting courtside let me see that Hope just expected the win. No intensity. What the heck? They came out flat and Morehouse didn't have them ready. I think their plan was flawed. They have good shooters. Let them shoot. Jordan needs to let the ball fly.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on January 14, 2007, 05:07:38 pm
The agony of defeat....

As a Hope fan it is tempting to blame the loss last night on inconsistent refing in the first half, or bad luck on a couple of close shots that would just not fall. 


Looked like both teams missed mutiple bunnies, but please don't hoot about the refs.  Wood and Lange would spend 5-10 seconds in the lane again and again.  There were a few strange calls against both teams in the last ten minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 14, 2007, 08:22:52 pm
The agony of defeat....

Calvin's Strategy:

WWWRHH,

Nice analysis -- thanks. I wasn't at the game, but it sounds very plausible.

One big difference between the knights last year and this is that they trailed the league in 3-point percentage last year, and this year they lead the league. Zone defense or pulling guards toward the middle has not successful this year. The threes weren't dropping for the most part yesterday, but as you say, there were some nice mid-range shots.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 15, 2007, 12:23:30 am

MIAA.org is reporting the 2911 in attendance set a regular season D3 record for woman's attendance.  So pat yourself on the back if you were in attendance, great crowd and the ladies deserve it.  Hope v Calvin now owns both men and womens  D3 attendance records.

As for the atmosphere, its what you get when you put 2500 comfortable seats in an arena that sits 3500 and the home team plays terrible for 20 minutes. :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2007, 12:39:14 am
Read that in the releases on the front page of D3hoops.  ;)

Congrats. Cool records, both.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 15, 2007, 02:09:27 am
Sac, was that the MIAA record?  Or an NCAA record?

We are looking at 2000-2200 at McMurry vs. HSU on Jan 22nd and the Howard Payne at HSU game may beat that on Thursday the 25th. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2007, 02:28:14 am
The NCAA record book does not list a separate record for regular-season games. Calling it an NCAA record might be a stretch, since it doesn't appear the NCAA would recognize this as a record.

For the record, the release Hope posted on our site doesn't claim it as an NCAA record, so I am not calling them out for this.

Here's what is in the record book:
4,001—Wis.-Oshkosh (68) vs. Mount Union (50), March 16, 1996, at Kolf Sports Center,  Oshkosh, Wis. (NCAA final).
3,512—Wis.-Oshkosh (60) vs. New York U. (37), and Mount Union (71) vs. St. Thomas (Minn.) (57), March 15, 1996, Kolf Sports Center, Oshkosh, Wis. (NCAA semifinals).
3,300—UNC Greensboro (68) vs. Southern Me. (66) and Concordia-M’head (65) vs. St. John Fisher (57), March 19, 1988, at Memorial Arena, Moorhead, Minn. (NCAA third place and NCAA final).
3,154—Hope (94) vs. Edgewood (55), Nov. 19, 2005, at DeVos Fieldhouse, Holland, Mich.
2,850—St. John Fisher (70) vs. Southern Me. (53) and Concordia-M’head (103) vs. UNC Greensboro (66), March 18, 1988, at Memorial Arena, Moorhead, Minn. (NCAA semifinals).
2,550—Capital (72) vs. Wheaton (Mass.) (54) and Washington-St. Louis (86) vs. Wis.-Eau Claire (82) (ot), March 18, 1994, at W.L. Zorn Arena, Eau Claire, Wis. (NCAA semifinals).
2,507—St. Thomas (Minn.) (75) vs. New York U. (51), March 15, 1996, at Kolf Sports Center, Oshkosh, Wis. (NCAA third place).
2,500—UNC Greensboro (55) vs. Luther (52), March 11, 1988, at Regents Center, Decorah, Iowa (NCAA quarterfinal).
2,300—Capital (82) vs. Washington-St. Louis (63), March 19, 1994, at W.L. Zorn Arena, Eau Claire, Wis. (NCAA final).

Note the game in bold -- why is that game different? The NCAA recognizes men's/women's doubleheaders.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 15, 2007, 10:31:17 am
Here's the link to miaa.org (http://miaa.org), you can read what they said and see a nice picture of the evening's event.

I think the MIAA (and truth be told the Hope SID since he runs the site) was trying to diferentiate the game as purely a regular-season women's event.  In other words there was no other draw.

At the very least its a regular season record since all those that Pat lists are NCAA tournament games, except the Hope men and women double header, which was also a special night in that it was opening night of DeVos Fieldhouse.  This was simply a regular season game between two rivals.

I thought it was awesome to see a great crowd give the women equal treatment in the Hope/Calvin rivalry.  Something that was always difficult to do with the men typically playing at the same time and in Hope's case the women  played in a different and overall poor facility before last year.

7,500 people watched a Hope v Calvin game Saturday in 2 different locations, and thats not even counting the TV audience for the men's game. 

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2007, 12:47:32 pm
Ehh, yeah, but it's kind of a fake record in the NCAA mind-set, though. It's taking the NCAA record and then applying two separate asterisks to it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 15, 2007, 01:53:37 pm
Ehh, yeah, but it's kind of a fake record in the NCAA mind-set, though. It's taking the NCAA record and then applying two separate asterisks to it.

I can see where your coming from, but why does the NCAA recognize a men's/women's double-header for attendance.  That seems a  little disingenuous to the ladies.

Last year Hope had another double-header and the ladies got credit for an attendance of about 2800 which was also the men's attendance.  There weren't 1000 people at that game untill the final minute.

To me that attendance would be more fake than a legitimate women's only game  drawing almost 3,000 people.

Kind of strange I guess.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 15, 2007, 05:35:43 pm
Ehh, yeah, but it's kind of a fake record in the NCAA mind-set, though. It's taking the NCAA record and then applying two separate asterisks to it.

I can see where your coming from, but why does the NCAA recognize a men's/women's double-header for attendance.  That seems a  little disingenuous to the ladies.

Last year Hope had another double-header and the ladies got credit for an attendance of about 2800 which was also the men's attendance.  There weren't 1000 people at that game untill the final minute.

To me that attendance would be more fake than a legitimate women's only game  drawing almost 3,000 people.

Kind of strange I guess.

The NCAA's record book says a doubleheader can be counted for women's attendance if a separate attendance count is taken by halftime of the women's game. Were there 3,154 in the building by halftime? After all, it was the much-awaited opener of a spectacular new building. But people on this board would know better than I.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 15, 2007, 08:02:46 pm
I personally wasn't at that game so I don't know.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 15, 2007, 08:33:05 pm
There was an interview with Calvin's coach John Ross on Hoopsville. You can listen at  http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/07/hoopsville11407a.mp3. The interview appears just over half way through the program.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 16, 2007, 11:40:20 am
I personally wasn't at that game so I don't know.

I was, and IIRC everyone was pretty much there right from the start.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 16, 2007, 04:46:41 pm
The new d3hoops.com Top 25 is out. Hope dropped from #2 to #4 and Calvin climbed from #11 to #8.

The latest Massey rating (http://mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw&sub=III&mid=1) has it the other way around, with Calvin #2 behind Howard Payne, and Hope at #7!

Calvin, #2
Hope, #7
Albion, #74
St. Mary's, #134
Olivet, #145
Alma, #168
Adrian, #169
Tri-State, #231
Kalamazoo, #247

The Massey rankings listed above are based on past results and difficulty of schedule as well as power. To predict future games, you look only at the power rating, and there Hope is slightly ahead.

But only slightly -- on a neutral court, Hope would be an 0.2-point favorite!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 16, 2007, 06:50:16 pm
Dark Knight:

I am already looking forward to the next match up.  I expect it to be at least as exciting as last Saturday's game.  Calvin is a better team than last year and probably the only one that will seriously challenge Hope until the playoffs.

When these two teams meet, comparable point spreads, power rankings and polls do not mean a lot - both have the ability to blow the game open if they execute well and the other team is not prepared to play.

I hope the Dutch finally learned they have to start the game with some intensity if they want to remain successful.  They may be able to turn it on and recover from an uninspired start and still win by 30 against most teams on the schedule, but it is not going to happen against a very good team with something to prove.

Who knows, Hope may even show something a little different than the standard game plan and rotation if it is necessary to counter Calvin's strengths and strategy. 

February 10 can not come too soon.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on January 18, 2007, 09:12:24 pm
scores
Jan 17

Calvin 87, Olivet 63
Tri-State 82, Kalamazoo 71
Hope 69, Alma 46
Albion 71, Saint Mary's 68 (OT)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on January 20, 2007, 05:11:31 pm
scores
Jan 20

St Marys 84, Adrian 72
Calvin 85, Kazoo 67
Olivet 56, 3State 50
Albion 82, Hope 75
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 20, 2007, 05:18:21 pm
What happened?!?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: billgull on January 20, 2007, 09:56:09 pm
http://www.albion/edu/sports/ (http://www.albion/edu/sports/)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: atn alum on January 21, 2007, 05:23:13 pm
I joked to our publisher that I should auction my top 25 first-place vote off this week?

I have no idea who to pick, from among 7 to 8 deserving teams...

Anyone with a good argument as to why I should give Calvin a big bump up?

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 21, 2007, 06:42:34 pm
Anyone with a good argument as to why I should give Calvin a big bump up?

I'd be a little forgiving of Calvin for their early-season 3-point loss at Wheaton. They have a couple of freshmen and two transfers who are getting lots of minutes, and it takes time to fit them into the rotation and teach them their roles. 

Those new players are settling in and the team is playing stronger now. Their offense runs through a powerful front court including Harris and all-American Winkle. Last year this gave them a legitimate top-15 team, ending at #14 in the d3hoops.com poll. The big difference with this team (besides an added year of experience) is outside shooting. Last year it was pretty poor, last in the league; this year their three-point percentage is something like 6-th best in DIII, thanks to the new players and the added year of experience.

That said, I don't see much on the results sheet to separate the top few teams. Massey Ratings have Howard Payne as a strong #1, well above the rest--but they've played one of the weakest schedules of the top teams and no ranked competition. The remainder of the top teams are pretty close, with Calvin at #3. However, Calvin has played the toughest schedule of the top 8, according to Massey, and as far as I can tell, Calvin is the only team of the top 8 with two wins against ranked competition.

Sill, I'm glad I don't have to try to put them in order!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 22, 2007, 07:33:30 pm
What happened?!?


I saw the first Hope/Albion game in Holland, in that one the Britons got a quick early lead and played with Hope right up to the end of the first half.  The Britons got in some foul trouble, namely one of their two big girls, Hope went on a nice run to lead by 20.  But Albion played Hope even or a little ahead for about 25 minutes of that game and they didn't shoot particularly well.

It was obvious last week that Hope is going through a little bad spell, in the course of the season your likely to hit one or two, they just weren't good enough to overcome a very poor stretch of basketball vs a very good Calvin team and generally seemed out of synch on offense. 

Calvin had a poor game vs St. Mary's and pulled out a win, Hope didn't at Albion its those kinds of games that often separate Champions from runner ups.

Hope/Calvin should get at least 2 more shots at each other and they should be very good games, they matchup very well and there really isn't much difference in overall personel.


PS Knights got a nice jump in the poll as they should, Hope took a big tumble to 11.  The differences in the men's and women's poll is pretty striking, there are alot of really good records on the women's side and not much to separate teams.  While on the men's there are quite a few teams with multiple losses.......maybe a lot of reputation voting, team and league.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 22, 2007, 09:22:34 pm
PS Knights got a nice jump in the poll as they should, Hope took a big tumble to 11.  The differences in the men's and women's poll is pretty striking, there are alot of really good records on the women's side and not much to separate teams.  While on the men's there are quite a few teams with multiple losses.......maybe a lot of reputation voting, team and league.

Women's basketball isn't as competitive as men's -- there is more spread between the top teams and the bottom teams. The top teams in women's basketball always seem to have one or two, or at most three losses, while top teams in a men's conference such as WIAC or CCIW can have five or six at the end of the year.

I agree that Hope's women's team is still top notch and could even repeat if they peak at the right time, like they did last year. However, it's very hard to keep the same keen edge of hunger -- and get the breaks that a championship run takes -- two years in a row.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 22, 2007, 09:30:58 pm
.........and do it without Bria Ebels. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on January 24, 2007, 10:27:40 pm
scores
Jan 24

Hope 91, Tri-State 56
St Marys 66, Alma 58
Adrian 63, Kazoo 55
Olivet 47, Albion 34
Calvin 99, Rochester 36 (non-MIAA)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 25, 2007, 01:58:54 am
Hope inserted Fr. Philania Green into the starting lineup tonight, while I'm not sure it had a big impact tonight, its possibly gotten the ladies attention some.

Tri-State might be the youngest college team I've ever seen, they have 10 Freshman on the roster.  Seems like 3 or 4 started, with a Soph.

The first half probably resembled Hope's last outing with Albion in some ways, though I can't be sure not having seen that game.  However I got the sense Hope found  a little something in the 2nd half on offense and defense and really dominated the Thunder.

Maybe they'll catch a little momentum and get out of their malaize in the next week or so.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 25, 2007, 01:21:49 pm
The knights had a 99-36 victory over a very weak Rochester (MI) team last night, but the game wasn't as close as the score would suggest.

The score was 58-19 at halftime. Apparently Ross told them to cool it a bit, because the knights didn't go for any fast break points in the second half and they toned down the intensity. The starters played an average of 10 minutes, first half only.

Calvin had possession right near the end of the game with 97 points, and the fans cheered loudly for a three-point attempt, but the players wouldn't go for it.

I'm not sure how much this game helped the knights--and I'm not sure the that scoring lots of points against the MIAA's last-place team constitutes momentum building for Hope, either.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on January 25, 2007, 05:21:10 pm
Very classy job last night by coach John Ross.  Not only did he refuse to let them go for the century mark (a lesson for GVW), but he also noticed early on that the opponent was inferior and managed the game accordingly.  The starting five players averaged on 10 minutes of playing time while all of the reserveds played and averaged 21 minutes of playing time.  Very classy!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 26, 2007, 09:06:29 am
The Knights are 4th in the nation in 3-point field goal percentage as of 1/21, at 38.5%, but they don't have any players showing up in the NCAA's top-50 list.

That's because they have three outstanding shooters, not just one or two, and none of them takes enough 3-point shots to show up in the list! You need two scores per game to be shown.

Freshman Allison Griswold leads the Knights (and the MIAA) at .492, on 31 of 63 attempts. Brummel and Zimmerman aren't far behind, at .448 and .444.  If they had a few more shots, they'd be 4th, 12th, and 14th in the nation, respectively.

If Griswold can hit 5 treys in her next game, she'll show up on the list. If she goes 5 of 8 or better, she could lead the nation.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 26, 2007, 05:04:10 pm
Very classy job last night by coach John Ross.  Not only did he refuse to let them go for the century mark (a lesson for GVW), but he also noticed early on that the opponent was inferior and managed the game accordingly.  The starting five players averaged on 10 minutes of playing time while all of the reserveds played and averaged 21 minutes of playing time.  Very classy!

Of course - everything Calvin is always so much more classy than anything Hope.  Give me a break.  You're talking about one game that the Lady Knights have had this kind of a blow out.  Hope's men have had 5 or 6 in their last 7 games.  At some point you have to not just be concerned about the feelings of the other team - you have to keep your team ready to play the tough games. 

The other thing you'll find is that in most cases, the team on the losing end of a blowout is less embarrased by everyone just playing out the game, than they are by being "protected".  There are of course exceptions, and I think every coach in the MIAA handles that well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: admittedlydutch on January 26, 2007, 10:19:39 pm
Very classy job last night by coach John Ross.  Not only did he refuse to let them go for the century mark (a lesson for GVW), but he also noticed early on that the opponent was inferior and managed the game accordingly.  The starting five players averaged on 10 minutes of playing time while all of the reserveds played and averaged 21 minutes of playing time.  Very classy!

Of course - everything Calvin is always so much more classy than anything Hope.  Give me a break.  You're talking about one game that the Lady Knights have had this kind of a blow out.  Hope's men have had 5 or 6 in their last 7 games.  At some point you have to not just be concerned about the feelings of the other team - you have to keep your team ready to play the tough games. 

The other thing you'll find is that in most cases, the team on the losing end of a blowout is less embarrased by everyone just playing out the game, than they are by being "protected".  There are of course exceptions, and I think every coach in the MIAA handles that well.

Have to agree with Flying Dutch -- when the third string is in for the last 8 minutes of every game, they should really try not to score. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 27, 2007, 09:48:17 am
Very classy job last night by coach John Ross.  Not only did he refuse to let them go for the century mark (a lesson for GVW), but he also noticed early on that the opponent was inferior and managed the game accordingly.  The starting five players averaged on 10 minutes of playing time while all of the reserveds played and averaged 21 minutes of playing time.  Very classy!

Of course - everything Calvin is always so much more classy than anything Hope.  Give me a break.  You're talking about one game that the Lady Knights have had this kind of a blow out.  Hope's men have had 5 or 6 in their last 7 games.  At some point you have to not just be concerned about the feelings of the other team - you have to keep your team ready to play the tough games. 

The other thing you'll find is that in most cases, the team on the losing end of a blowout is less embarrased by everyone just playing out the game, than they are by being "protected".  There are of course exceptions, and I think every coach in the MIAA handles that well.

I assume FDF's comment that there was "one game that the Lady Knights have had this of kind of blow out" is just hyperbole intended to make a point because a comparison of statistics doesn't quite support that statement. For the entire season Hope's men have outscored their opposition by a margin of 17.7 points per game (80.9 to 63.2) while Calvin's women have outscored their opponents by 22 points per game (74.1 to 52.1). To be fair to your comment I will say that Hope's men have had a couple more "blowout" wins than has had Calvin's women. If we use a win by 25 or more points as the accepted definition then Hope has had seven blowout wins and Calvin five. If we use 35 point wins as the accepted definition of a blowout then the two teams are even with three apiece.

Blowout wins are always problematic for the winning coach and they're why almost all coaches hate them. I think almost all coaches are sensitive to the fact that we need to show respect for opponents and the need to do that is even greater when the opponent is suffering through a really bad game. The winning coach wants his kids to play hard  without causing further embarrassment to the losing team and finding creative ways to accomplish those twin goals is no easy task.

Although winning big does have the advantage of allowing you to rest your key players and it allows coaches to give their subs major minutes, it compels coaches to find ways to keep the score down by not doing things their players are trained to do in practice and most other games. These include things like not pressing, not double teaming the ball and not looking to run the break. The winning coach will typically tell his kids to play hard--as if it's still a close game--but when players realize they are not allowed to utilize the full range of offensive and defensive options they ordinarily prepare to use in games it leads to inevitable on-the-court sluggishness. In the long run this isn't good for the winning team because it leads to bad habits, particularly a loss of game intensity and intensity isn't a quality that can be turned on and off like a water faucet. Players think it can but years of observation have led me to conclude that it can't. It takes time to work your way up to peak intensity and when you come down from that mountain it takes time to climb back up to the top. Therefore when you do get into a scrape with a quality opponent who has started the game with maximum intensity--and you haven't--you find yourself in a dogfight.

This is why blowout wins are poor preparation for the tough games you inevitably will have down the road. Add to that the fact that coaches have to suffer through the inevitable criticism that they merely are unnecessarily embarrassing an opponent and you can see why they hate these kinds of games. Having said all that I do think a coach does need to rein in his players and instruct them not to do anything that could arguably be seen as showing up the losing side. When the winning side winds up with a breakaway late in a blowout win I'm always far more impressed with the player who simply lays it in softly off the glass rather than calling attention to himself and soaring in for a monster slam. A dunk in a 40 point win may make the home crowd happy and be seen by the winning side as "all in good fun" but to me it takes some of the luster off the win and exudes a certain classlessness.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on January 27, 2007, 11:17:31 am
Very classy job last night by coach John Ross.  Not only did he refuse to let them go for the century mark (a lesson for GVW), but he also noticed early on that the opponent was inferior and managed the game accordingly.  The starting five players averaged on 10 minutes of playing time while all of the reserveds played and averaged 21 minutes of playing time.  Very classy!

Of course - everything Calvin is always so much more classy than anything Hope.  Give me a break.  You're talking about one game that the Lady Knights have had this kind of a blow out.  Hope's men have had 5 or 6 in their last 7 games.  At some point you have to not just be concerned about the feelings of the other team - you have to keep your team ready to play the tough games. 

The other thing you'll find is that in most cases, the team on the losing end of a blowout is less embarrased by everyone just playing out the game, than they are by being "protected".  There are of course exceptions, and I think every coach in the MIAA handles that well.

So, you don't think the actions of John Ross were classy?  It was a week where two teams appraoched the century mark.  One coach did it right, the other allowed it to go another way.  I just think John Ross is a class act and it showed in his actions.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 27, 2007, 02:03:27 pm
Very classy job last night by coach John Ross.  Not only did he refuse to let them go for the century mark (a lesson for GVW), but he also noticed early on that the opponent was inferior and managed the game accordingly.  The starting five players averaged on 10 minutes of playing time while all of the reserveds played and averaged 21 minutes of playing time.  Very classy!

Of course - everything Calvin is always so much more classy than anything Hope.  Give me a break.  You're talking about one game that the Lady Knights have had this kind of a blow out.  Hope's men have had 5 or 6 in their last 7 games.  At some point you have to not just be concerned about the feelings of the other team - you have to keep your team ready to play the tough games. 

The other thing you'll find is that in most cases, the team on the losing end of a blowout is less embarrased by everyone just playing out the game, than they are by being "protected".  There are of course exceptions, and I think every coach in the MIAA handles that well.

So, you don't think the actions of John Ross were classy?  It was a week where two teams appraoched the century mark.  One coach did it right, the other allowed it to go another way.  I just think John Ross is a class act and it showed in his actions.

Not trying for the century mark at the end of the game was definitely classy, but telling the players not to go for the fast breaks is a more difficult judgment call, for all the reasons oldknight mentioned. Don't want them to practice bad habits, and it's also not clear that the opponent will feel better knowing they didn't play their hardest.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on January 27, 2007, 05:16:42 pm
MIAA scores
Saturday Jan 27

Saint Mary’s 83, Tri-State 66
Calvin 67, Adrian 46
Hope 101, Kalamazoo 53
Albion 68, Alma 55
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 31, 2007, 02:35:28 pm
I do believe that Lisa Winkle passed the 1,500 point career mark on saturday.  No listing on the D3hoops milestone page though...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 31, 2007, 04:31:49 pm
Key game for the Knights tonight at Albion, ranked as the third-best MIAA team and #55 in the nation by Massey. They've been playing well lately, except for the hangover loss at Olivet.

The knights come in ranked #3 by both major polls, with Hope at #4 in the coaches' poll.

Calvin is currently #1 in the nation according to Massey, but then Massey thinks that Calvin has a 63-point win against Rochester, NY. I'm a frayed knot.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 31, 2007, 05:34:07 pm
They've been playing well lately, except for the hangover loss at Olivet.

Huh?  Calvin beat Olivet by 24
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on January 31, 2007, 06:57:16 pm
They've been playing well lately, except for the hangover loss at Olivet.

Huh?  Calvin beat Olivet by 24

Albion's hangover loss, after the victory against Hope. They shot something like 20%.

Massey says Calvin 67 Albion 57, by the way.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on January 31, 2007, 09:30:12 pm
MIAA scores
Wednesday Jan 31

Calvin 75, Albion 65
Hope 87, Adrian 53
Saint Mary's 81, Olivet 72
Alma 71, Tri-State 65
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 01, 2007, 04:04:23 am
I do believe that Lisa Winkle passed the 1,500 point career mark on saturday.  No listing on the D3hoops milestone page though...

E-mail is more effective than a sniping post on a board I might not read for days, Slappy.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 01, 2007, 11:10:44 am
I do believe that Lisa Winkle passed the 1,500 point career mark on saturday.  No listing on the D3hoops milestone page though...

E-mail is more effective than a sniping post on a board I might not read for days, Slappy.

I was actually hoping for confirmation from someone on this page before I emailed it, Pat.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 03, 2007, 09:18:19 am
Calvin is playing St. Mary's today, and I'll be curious to see how the game goes, since in their prior meeting down in Indiana, Calvin escaped with a one-point victory, 53-52. SMC didn't ever have the lead after the first minute of the game, and they were down 13 early in the second half. They were down 7 with 3 minutes to go. With 3 seconds to go they were down two and had a pair of free throws. Make, miss. Sounds like a valiant comeback attempt that fell just short.

Calvin didn't shoot as well as usual in that game, at .375 (.214 of three-pointers), but SMC was worse at .278. It sounds as though it was a defensive battle.

The stat that jumps out at you is rebounding, though. SMC had 45 rebounds to Calvin's 31. SMC had 14 offensive boards on 39 missed shots to Calvin's 3 offensive boards on 30 missed shots. Overcoming that kind of a rebounding deficit takes some doing!

Massey says it'll be Calvin 77-56, but I'd guess it'll be closer than that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 03, 2007, 11:31:33 am
The Calvin St Mary's game has been cancelled do to the snow, just for everyones information.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 03, 2007, 09:33:37 pm
MIAA scores
Saturday Feb 2

Olivet 69, Adrian 62
Alma 56, Kalamazoo 47
Albion 83, Tri-State 53
Saint Mary’s at Calvin, ppd (makeup Monday, 6 p.m.)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 05, 2007, 10:23:01 pm
MIAA scores
Monday Feb 5

Calvin 75, Saint Mary's 44
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 05, 2007, 10:33:06 pm
Calvin 75 St. Mary's 44. This game was all Calvin with all 14 players getting time and no one playing more than 20 minutes. Calvin shot .429 to SMC's .219. SMC wasn't able to handle Calvin's defensive pressure, and Calvin looked poised and confident and made some nice plays.  17 points for Harris in 18 minutes, and 13 rebounds for Winkle.

Calvin did much better on the boards this game, but SMC still outrebounded the Knights 46-42, and picked up 24 offensive boards on their 50 missed shots, to Calvin's 13 offensive boards on their 32 missed shots. I saw SMC players get into position to rebound offensively and even box out offensively when a teammate took a shot, and I didn't see as much of that from Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 07, 2007, 11:20:41 pm
First set of regional rankings:
Great Lakes
1 Calvin 12-0 18-1
2 DePauw 12-2 19-2
3 Denison 17-2 19-3
4 Wilmington 16-3 18-3
5 Hope 13-2 18-2
6 Baldwin-Wallace 16-4 17-4
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 08, 2007, 09:43:35 am
MIAA scores
Wednesday Feb 7

Calvin 58, Tri-State 44
Hope 78, Olivet 70
Alma 69, Adrian 65
Albion 83, Kalamazoo 37
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 08, 2007, 12:30:35 pm
First set of regional rankings:
Great Lakes
1 Calvin 12-0 18-1
5 Hope 13-2 18-2


Homecoming or not, I think Calvin is ready to fall.  Hope's second loss was a carryover from the Calvin loss in DeVos.  The Dutch will come out and overwhelm the Knights in the first 10 minutes.  The question will be if Calvin can recover.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 08, 2007, 03:19:29 pm
First set of regional rankings:
Great Lakes
1 Calvin 12-0 18-1
5 Hope 13-2 18-2


Homecoming or not, I think Calvin is ready to fall.  Hope's second loss was a carryover from the Calvin loss in DeVos.  The Dutch will come out and overwhelm the Knights in the first 10 minutes.  The question will be if Calvin can recover.

Based upon Calvin's apparently indifferent perfomance last night against a weak Tri-State squad (3-18) I can understand why you might make that claim. But I saw most of Hope's win last night over Olivet and the better team in that game looked pretty uninspiring too. Makes you wonder if each team was looking ahead to Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on February 08, 2007, 04:18:38 pm
Hey Oldknight,
Put down your latest Kronenmeyer sister and come over to the women's NCAC room for a quick cup of coffee.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 08, 2007, 09:21:52 pm
Homecoming or not, I think Calvin is ready to fall.  Hope's second loss was a carryover from the Calvin loss in DeVos.  The Dutch will come out and overwhelm the Knights in the first 10 minutes.  The question will be if Calvin can recover.

I don't know what to think about this game. I think this must be sort of like what the fans of the Dutchmen felt two days ago: they ought to win, they won on the road a couple of weeks ago, but who knows...

I think the big risk for the Dutch is to focus too much on Winkle and Harris and get burned by Calvin's outside shooting. You have to be able to defend the paint without double teaming or (heavens) playing a zone. Or catch the knights on a cold night, e.g. 2-15 from behind the arc against Wheaton.

Massey gives Calvin about a 6-point advantage at Knollcrest, but that's not too far from a tossup.

In any case, it's obviously a huge game for bragging rights but a game unlikely to have post-season implications.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 08, 2007, 11:49:39 pm
I think saturday's game comes down to if calvin can take hope out of their rhythm like they did a couple weeks ago.  The biggest factor a couple of weeks ago is that hope had zero penitration by the guards and Calvin was able to hold hopes posts from creating too much damage.  If Calvin is able to do the same thing, (i.e. shut down Wood, Lange, Warsen) I think they win the game.  Hope I don't think has replaced Bria Ebels yet and that is the big difference between last year and this year.  Hope had a slashing guard that made teams work against the perimeter, which opened up the inside more.  This year, teams can gamble a little bit more with the perimeter players and concentrate more on the inside, and thus compete with Hope.  Both Hope losses attest to guard play as being the difference, just look at Boles shooting percentage against Albion. 
Any way you look at it, I think it is going to be a great game, in front of a great crowd (that could set the regular season women's D3 attendance record again).  It will be fun.  See you all there.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 09, 2007, 06:17:48 am
knightrider, thanks for the post. Very interesting and informative. Gives me an idea of what to look for at the game.

Since this is a homecoming game, most people got tickets in advance. Does anyone know how many tickets have been distributed?

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 09, 2007, 08:30:28 am
I just learned that the same ticket will get you in to the men's and women's double header, with the women's game at 12:45 and the men's game at 3:00.

Do the NCAA rules state that the total number of tickets sold is counted as the attendance for both games? If so, could this game, which may have close to 4500 attendance according to the NCAA, be at or near an all-time D-3 women's game attendance record?

Not that I'd put much stock in that record if only 2000 people actually see the game...

What is the all-time attendance record?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 09, 2007, 12:52:38 pm
I just learned that the same ticket will get you in to the men's and women's double header, with the women's game at 12:45 and the men's game at 3:00.

Do the NCAA rules state that the total number of tickets sold is counted as the attendance for both games? If so, could this game, which may have close to 4500 attendance according to the NCAA, be at or near an all-time D-3 women's game attendance record?

Not that I'd put much stock in that record if only 2000 people actually see the game...

What is the all-time attendance record?


Apparently the NCAA allows a school to count anyone in attendance by halftime as attending the women's games.  Seems like we had a similar discussion a few pages back about a Hope women's/men's double header last year and how attendance was calculated for the women.

sorry don't have a link.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2007, 02:52:05 pm
Yes, that is the rule. If a separate attendance count -- in the building -- is taken by halftime of the women's game it counts.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 09, 2007, 09:56:08 pm
Quote from: Brian Morehouse
"Maybe (Calvin) should be No. 1," said Morehouse, who guided the Flying Dutch to the Division III title last year. "They are that good. I was talking with our assistant coaches, and I said, 'Who would they not be able to beat on the way to the Final Four?' We couldn't come up with a team.

--GR Press (http://www.mlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports-5/1171028188288990.xml?grpress?SPSM&coll=6)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on February 10, 2007, 01:31:19 pm
Halftime

Calvin 23
Hope   21

Calvin 16 turnovers
Title: Re: Lets Talk MIAA
Post by: GoKnights68 on February 10, 2007, 02:04:48 pm
Looks like Calvin and Hope women are all tied up at 37 with about 10 minutes to go in the game.  Should be  a great finish.
Title: Re: Lets Talk MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 10, 2007, 02:22:17 pm
Looks like Calvin and Hope women are all tied up at 37 with about 10 minutes to go in the game.  Should be  a great finish.

Super game... 51-51 w/37 sec
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 10, 2007, 02:27:37 pm
Wow, what an exciting last 17 seconds to the Hope-Calvin game. OT. Two really evenly matched teams in both games. Hopefully they both make the NCAA tourney and are not matched up to meet each other in the first or second round. Dumb committee, I have no faith.
Title: Re: Lets Talk MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 10, 2007, 02:27:57 pm
OT

Another Hope/Calvin classic...
Title: Re: Lets Talk MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 10, 2007, 02:28:42 pm
Looks like Calvin and Hope women are all tied up at 37 with about 10 minutes to go in the game.  Should be  a great finish.

Super game... 51-51 w/37 sec

Listening to the Calvin radio in the library right now. All I got was a yell and Calvin stole the ball. Almost sounded like the Calvin player missed a layup. Is that right?
Title: Re: Lets Talk MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 10, 2007, 02:41:56 pm
Unfortunate loss for the Hope Women. They only shot 30% from the floor, including 18% from the 3 and still managed to almost win the game because of a great game on the boards. It should be great to see these two teams meet up again, hopefully that will happen in the MIAA tourney.

That said this has to be the most depressing week for Orange and Blue teams ever. First, the Bears. Then Hope men, now Hope women. If Illinois doesn't pull off a victory at Indiana in the next 7 minutes I may just stay in bed all day tomorrow :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 10, 2007, 05:26:30 pm
It was a very evenly matched, very physical defensive battle with bodies flying every which way. The halftime score was 23-21 for the knights. There were many lead changes and the largest lead by either team was 5 points.

Hope didn't have any dribble penetration to speak of but they did pass the ball in to the post quite a bit, and Wood was their leading scorer.

Calvin had problems getting the ball into the post in the first half -- many passes were tipped or picked off. This will be excellent experience for them for tournaments, because no other teams have been able to apply this kind of defensive pressure. But with all of Hope's emphasis on interior defense Calvin was able to hit 8 three-point shots, nearly half their point total for the non-overtime portion of the game.

After the men's game, the women's team cut down the nets to celebrate the MIAA season championship for the Knights.

Addendum: I wasn't too surprised to see from the box score that Hope had outrebounded Calvin 49-33. Hope had 22 offensive rebounds on 46 missed shots. Calvin made up the deficit with better shooting, 41% on the game to Hope's 30%. The 3-point percentage made a huge difference, 8 of 15 for Calvin to 3 of 17 for Hope.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 10, 2007, 09:44:09 pm
MIAA scores
Saturday Feb 10

Calvin 63, Hope 58 (OT)
Saint Mary’s 62, Kalamazoo 60
Olivet 76, Alma 72
Tri-State 89, Adrian 77
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Fawkes316 on February 10, 2007, 09:55:38 pm
Losing to Wheaton could be the best thing that has happened to Calvin. Wheaton was the last team to beat both Millikin and Hope the last two years, before they went on to win the National Championship.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 11, 2007, 12:00:51 pm
to settle this attendance issue, yesterdays game attendance between calvin and hope was listed at 2234, much less than the 2900 for the first meeting this year.  From being at the game, this was definitely because of a count at half time and not from the end of the game.  By the end of the game there was probably more than 3000. 

A more interesting observation was that the guys game was credited with an attendance of 3300, but that had to have counted some of those in attendance at the women's game because the fieldhouse cleared out quite a bit after the women's game.  I bet the guys game had 2000, but not 3000 in attendance. 

Overall I think the way the NCAA counts attendance is flawed and the only way to have gotten an accurate count would have been to empty out the fieldhouse after the women's game and have different tickets for the mens game.  Time to put an end to this discussion.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on February 11, 2007, 12:20:08 pm
Looking at the calvin hope game from yesterday, I think my pregame assessment wasn't too far off.  Calvin tried to stop Hope in the post but still gave up 31 of hope's 58 points by wood, lange, and warsen.  These three combined to shoot 10 of 20 from the field and 11 of 15 from the free throw line.  The rest of the hope team shot 10 of 36 from the floor and 4 of 6 from the free throw line.  The other main post player, emily ohare, was 0-8 from the floor.  I think this shows calvin's defensive focus in the game, and what made a difference in the game.  Focusing on the posts and gambling a bit on the guards paid off and Calvin won the game. 

Looking at what Calvin attacked on the offensive end, I would say that Kristi Brummel was the game breaker.  Her outside shooting early in the game was what kept calvin in the game.  Then the rest of the calvin guards stepping up and hitting big outside shots, helped open up the inside a bit for Harris and Winkle.

One thing I would like to see Calvin do more against Hope the next time is go with the three post lineup of winkle, harris and willett.  The nice thing about this lineup is that harris is fast enough to guard on the perimeter, plus it forces one of hopes guards to guard a post player, usually harris.  This mismatch would be in Calvin's favor.  Calvin used this a couple of times yesterday, but only took full advantage once where Harris posted Boles up and scored. 

Overall it was a great, exciting game, and hopefully we will get at least one more match up between these two before the season is over.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hawk'ster on February 11, 2007, 12:21:48 pm
First set of regional rankings:
Great Lakes
1 Calvin 12-0 18-1
5 Hope 13-2 18-2


Homecoming or not, I think Calvin is ready to fall.  Hope's second loss was a carryover from the Calvin loss in DeVos.  The Dutch will come out and overwhelm the Knights in the first 10 minutes.  The question will be if Calvin can recover.


Right on one count – Hope's defense was all over Calvin for the 1st ten minutes.  But that went both ways. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on February 11, 2007, 12:27:20 pm
I was surprised Winkle passed-up so many 10-12 footers in the paint.  I've seen her hit these before.  Her lack of shooting may be one reason Calvin was chuckin' it from the cheap seats.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 11, 2007, 01:57:50 pm
I was surprised Winkle passed-up so many 10-12 footers in the paint.  I've seen her hit these before.  Her lack of shooting may be one reason Calvin was chuckin' it from the cheap seats.

I also was surprised to see Winkle pass up on a couple of opportunities to take the mid-range jumper. The only thing I can think was happening is that Lisa was giving head fakes so that Ellen Wood (who creates matchup problems for Winkle and for Calvin) would be out of position and, hopefully, get into some foul difficulty.

Knightrider has suggested that Calvin go with a lineup of Winkle, Harris and Willett so as to create matchup problems for Hope the next time they play . Although that possibility has some attraction I agree with the current arrangement John Ross has. His current rotation has Willett subbing in for either Winkle or Harris and I don't see a good rotation available for the Knights if he has to sub in after starting all three of these girls. In yesterday's game Trewhella was seriously gassed late in regulation. You have to give your post players rest too.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on February 11, 2007, 02:06:57 pm
Are Lisa Winkle, Sarah Winkle, and Aaron Winkle siblings?  And if so, are there any more at home like them?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 11, 2007, 02:17:03 pm
Are Lisa Winkle, Sarah Winkle, and Aaron Winkle siblings?  And if so, are there any more at home like them?

Not siblings.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 11, 2007, 02:25:23 pm
Are Lisa Winkle, Sarah Winkle, and Aaron Winkle siblings?  And if so, are there any more at home like them?

Lisa and Sarah are sisters. They are not related to Aaron--except possibly very distantly.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 11, 2007, 02:32:08 pm
Great win for Calvin's women today.  BTW: don't say that in the men's room, even if it is true, some of the posters there are overly sensitive.  Definitely a good test in more ways than one to be ready for the tournaments.
Thanks OK.  I was just going to say the two women are sisters.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 11, 2007, 02:55:02 pm
Did anyone else think the game was over-the-top physical? 

My only problem with the officiating is when there’s obvious physical contact which results in a turnover.  There’re a few times when an offensive player was knocked to the ground, the ball squirted out-of-bounds and the refs gave it to the other team....strange?

I don’t think Calvin went inside because there wasn’t anything there.  Wood owned the paint.  Without her athleticism and dribble penetration Harris would've had a tough time getting near the basket.  She wasn’t getting the ball down on the box with a chance to make a move.

Winkle seemed a bit gassed.  That may have led to her passing-up some shots.  She was tremendous on defense, often guarding a stronger Wood.  That’d wear on anyone.  We saw some of Winkle’s track speed when she ran down a Hope guard following a front court steal and an open basket ahead of her.

Where’ll Winkle fall on this season’s AA teams?

In 2006 she was Honorable Mention and currently she's on the 2007 pre-season Fourth Team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on February 11, 2007, 03:01:07 pm
Dear Greyhounds,

Please send film of the last three Messiah at Moravia games to:

Coach J Ross
c/o HPERDS Dept
3201 Burton SE
Grand Rapids MI
49546
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowman on February 11, 2007, 03:12:38 pm
Did anyone else think the game was over-the-top physical? 

My only problem with the officiating is when there’s obvious physical contact which results in a turnover.  There’re a few times when an offensive player was knocked to the ground, the ball squirted out-of-bounds and the refs gave it to the other team....strange?

Oh my.  In OT a Hope player was sandwiched near the baseline and dropped the ball OB -- CALVIN BALL.  Too important to miss that call.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 11, 2007, 03:19:20 pm
In general i've found women's officiating to be down right atrocious.  But strangely I've also seen some women's games that were much more physical than the men.

The #1 quality in a recruit for D3 should be a sense of humor. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on February 11, 2007, 03:34:16 pm
In general i've found women's officiating to be down right atrocious.  But strangely I've also seen some women's games that were much more physical than the men.

The #1 quality in a recruit for D3 should be a sense of humor. ;)

If the MIAA men played as physical as the women there would be blood on the floor every game.  The stripes would have to put a stop to it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flynn on February 11, 2007, 05:33:16 pm
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking I did a very small piece of research and something dinged my curiousity. 

-- What happened to the Lady Knights from 2001-2003? 
-- What happened in 2004 that brought them back?

1996 .... 1st: (12-0)
1997 .... 1st: (11-1)
1998 .... 1st: (12-0)
1999 .... 1st: (14-2)
2000 .... 2nd: (13-3)
2001 .... 4th: (7-7)
2002 .... 5th: (7-7)
2003 .... 4th: (6-8)
2004 .... 1st: (13-1)
2005 .... 3rd: (13-3)
2006 .... 2nd: (14-2)
2007 .... 1st: (currently 14-0)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 11, 2007, 05:40:29 pm
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking I did a very small piece of research and something dinged my curiousity. 

-- What happened to the Lady Knights from 2001-2003? 
-- What happened in 2004 that brought them back?


It may've had more to do with the rest of the MIAA than with Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 11, 2007, 05:46:46 pm
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking I did a very small piece of research and something dinged my curiousity. 

-- What happened to the Lady Knights from 2001-2003? 
-- What happened in 2004 that brought them back?

Didn't coach Ross start in 2004? Also Lisa Winkle.

Quote from: Harrier
It may've had more to do with the rest of the MIAA than with Calvin.

The MIAA is very strong this year. Was it even stronger in 2001..3?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on February 11, 2007, 06:14:25 pm
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking [...]

I'd hold off on that celebration party until the rankings come out.  Bowdoin has at least as good a claim to the top spot in this week's poll.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flynn on February 11, 2007, 06:39:30 pm
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking [...]

I'd hold off on that celebration party until the rankings come out.  Bowdoin has at least as good a claim to the top spot in this week's poll.

Sorry, I misused the word cusp.

cusp [kuhsp] a point that marks the beginning of a change

I should have used verge.

verge [vurj] the edge, rim, or margin of something

I'd say Calvin is right on the edge of the top-ranking, but not quite there (maybe).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hawk'ster on February 11, 2007, 07:31:39 pm
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking I did a very small piece of research and something dinged my curiousity. 

1996 .... 1st: (12-0)
1997 .... 1st: (11-1)
1998 .... 1st: (12-0)
1999 .... 1st: (14-2)
2000 .... 2nd: (13-3)
2001 .... 4th: (7-7)
2002 .... 5th: (7-7)
2003 .... 4th: (6-8)
2004 .... 1st: (13-1)
2005 .... 3rd: (13-3)
2006 .... 2nd: (14-2)
2007 .... 1st: (currently 14-0)

Where can one find MIAA standings older than 1996?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 11, 2007, 11:09:16 pm
I believe the Holland Archives in Hope's library has all of the MIAA historical stuff.  I have no idea if its available to the public.

From my vintage 1995 MIAA tournament program

1995
Hope.....11-1
Calvin....10-2
Alma......9-3
Adrian....5-7
Albion....4-8
Olivet.....2-10
Kzoo......1-11


Answer to an earlier question..........in 2001 to 2003  Kalamazoo had a couple very good teams, Alma and Albion also had good teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 12, 2007, 07:07:04 am
With Calvin winning the MIAA title and on the cusp of a #1 ranking I did a very small piece of research and something dinged my curiousity. 

1996 .... 1st: (12-0)
1997 .... 1st: (11-1)
1998 .... 1st: (12-0)
1999 .... 1st: (14-2)
2000 .... 2nd: (13-3)
2001 .... 4th: (7-7)
2002 .... 5th: (7-7)
2003 .... 4th: (6-8)
2004 .... 1st: (13-1)
2005 .... 3rd: (13-3)
2006 .... 2nd: (14-2)
2007 .... 1st: (currently 14-0)

Where can one find MIAA standings older than 1996?

You can gather a bit more info from the MIAA in the NCAA page (http://www.miaa.org/wbb/wbbncaa.html):

1985 Alma is MIAA champ, 1-1 in NCAAs
1986 Alma is MIAA champ, 1-1 in NCAAs
1987 Alma is MIAA champ, 1-1 in NCAAs
1988 Calvin is MIAA champ, 1-1 in NCAAs
1989 Alma is MIAA champ, 1-1 in NCAAs

1990 Hope is MIAA champ, 5-0 in NCAAs, national champ
1991 Adrian 1-1, Calvin 0-1 in NCAAs
1992 Alma is MIAA champ, 5-0 in NCAAs, national champ
1993 Calvin is MIAA champ, 0-1 in NCAAs
1994 Alma is MIAA champ, 1-1 in NCAAs
1995 Hope is MIAA champ, 0-1 in NCAAs
1996 Calvin 1-1 in NCAAs, Alma 0-1 in NCAAs
1997 Alma 1-1, Calvin 1-1 in NCAAs
1998 Calvin 1-1, Hope 0-1 in NCAAs
1999 Hope 0-1, Defiance 0-1, Calvin 2-1 in NCAAs

2000 Calvin 2-1 in NCAAs
2001 Hope 0-1 in NCAAs
2002 Hope 1-1 in NCAAs
2003 Hope 3-1 in NCAAs
2004 Albion 0-1 in NCAAs
2005 Calvin 3-1, Albion 1-1 in NCAAs
2006 Calvin 0-1, Hope 6-0 in NCAAs, national champ

Let's see, that's 8 NCAA appearances and a national championship for Alma, 10 appearances and 3 sectionals for Calvin, 8 appearances, two sectionals, and two national championships for Hope, and appearances for Adrian, Albion (2), and Defiance. The MIAA is 38 and 26 overall in the NCAAs (36 and 24 against non-MIAA teams), with 3 national championships in 22 years.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ziggy on February 12, 2007, 09:24:12 pm
Calvin moves into the #2 spot in this week's poll, just six points shy of #1.  Hope moves up a spot to #8 despite the loss on Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 12, 2007, 09:36:24 pm
Hope moves up a spot to #8 despite the loss on Saturday.

Brilliant.  I love to see a poll that makes sense.  A team barely losses to a top-team and moves up. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on February 12, 2007, 11:27:14 pm
Hope moves up a spot to #8 despite the loss on Saturday.

Brilliant.  I love to see a poll that makes sense.  A team barely losses to a top-team and moves up. 

They really did move up, too, albeit slightly--they gained 10 points.  So it's not just a question of moving up because the teams around them (like Rochester and IWU) fell faster, although that may have been a factor.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 13, 2007, 11:10:51 am
Good points David.  The womens poll does seem to make a great deal of sense.  I am very happy to see Calvin in 2nd.  Over the years I think a #1 rating has hurt more teams than it has ever helped.  Last Sat. proves Hope hasn't lost much (from last year), and Calvin can't relax. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 13, 2007, 11:27:01 am
I think a Hope-Calvin rematch in the MIAA finals would be one of the more exciting championship games in years in the MIAA in either men or women's games.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 13, 2007, 12:05:56 pm
Repeat matchups in the two conference finals are no guaruntee of course.......but it would be great if the starting times allowed fans to attend both Championship games. :)

The biggest obstacle for another Calvin/Hope game would seem to be a Hope/Albion matchup, which at least for now would be avoided.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 13, 2007, 12:37:39 pm
Repeat matchups in the two conference finals are no guaruntee of course.......but it would be great if the starting times allowed fans to attend both Championship games. :)

The biggest obstacle for another Calvin/Hope game would seem to be a Hope/Albion matchup, which at least for now would be avoided.

Amen
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 14, 2007, 09:05:09 pm
What a great effort tonight by Olivet. Very impressive.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 14, 2007, 09:38:08 pm
MIAA scores
Wednesday Feb 14

Tri-State 67, Kalamazoo 46
Hope 63, Alma 48
Calvin 66, Olivet 62
Saint Mary’s 71, Albion 63 (OT)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 16, 2007, 12:07:02 pm
Any thoughts on the MIAA basketball tournament?

SATURDAY, FEB. 17
Hope at Saint Mary's, 3 p.m.
Albion at Adrian, 3 p.m.
Kalamazoo at Olivet, 3 p.m.
Calvin at Alma, 3 p.m.


(http://www.miaa.org/img/logostrophy/MIAABballTournLogo07.jpg)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 16, 2007, 12:10:54 pm
Any thoughts on the MIAA basketball tournament?

SATURDAY, FEB. 17
Hope at Saint Mary's, 3 p.m.
Albion at Adrian, 3 p.m.
Kalamazoo at Olivet, 3 p.m.
Calvin at Alma, 3 p.m.



Calvin's won two close ones, I see Hope winning the tourney.  Will Calvin get in if they loose again before the NCCA's?

I wouldn't be shocked if St Marys beat the Dutch tomorrow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 16, 2007, 12:28:32 pm
Any thoughts on the MIAA basketball tournament?

SATURDAY, FEB. 17
Hope at Saint Mary's, 3 p.m.
Albion at Adrian, 3 p.m.
Kalamazoo at Olivet, 3 p.m.
Calvin at Alma, 3 p.m.



Calvin's won two close ones, I see Hope winning the tourney.  Will Calvin get in if they loose again before the NCCA's?

I wouldn't be shocked if St Marys beat the Dutch tomorrow.

Calvin is currently 22-1 and ranked first in the Great Lakes Region (Hope is ranked 5th). If Calvin wins out until the MIAA conference final I can't imagine they would drop so low as to not get an at-large bid to the NCAA. Of course they likely would be matched up against Hope again in the first or second round unless one of the teams got moved out of region for the NCAA's.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hawk'ster on February 17, 2007, 01:23:27 am
What a great effort tonight by Olivet. Very impressive.

I'd say Olivet has two of the top athletes in the MIAA.  Audrey Graham and Kelsey Gordon are as quick, if not quicker, than anyone else I've seen this winter.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 17, 2007, 07:52:12 pm
MIAA scores
Saturday Feb 17

Hope 79, Saint Mary's 71
Albion 79, Adrian 53
Olivet 84, Kalamazoo 51
Calvin 59, Alma 53
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 17, 2007, 07:57:52 pm
MIAA Women's tournament

MONDAY - play-in game
#9 Kalamazoo (3-21) at #8 Adrian (8-15), 7:30 p.m.

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Kalamazoo/Adrian winner at #1 Calvin (23-1), 7:30 p.m.
#7 Tri-State (6-18) at #2 Hope (21-3), 7:30 p.m.
#6 Alma (10-13) at #3 Saint Mary's (11-12), 7:30 p.m.
#5 Olivet (12-11) at #4 Albion (14-10), 7:30 p.m.

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Hope/Tri-State winner vs. Alma/Saint Mary's winner at highest seed, 7:30 p.m.
Albion/Olivet winner vs. Calvin/Kalamazoo-Adrian winner at highest seed, 7:30 p.m.

SATURDAY - championship
Championship game at highest remaining seed, 3 p.m.

winner advances to NCAA Tournament
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 17, 2007, 09:04:54 pm
Congrats to the knights who finish up the MIAA season a perfect 16-0, just the second time that's been done. (Hope did it last year as well.)

For the second time this week the knights faced a determined, upset-minded team and escaped with a close victory. Last time the knights didn't have much bounce in the step after the strenuous Hope game,  and the knights made only 3 of 16 trey attempts. This afternoon the knights shot pretty well, at .465, but turned the ball over 25 times to an aggressive Alma defense.

The MIAA has several really good teams that are difficult to beat, especially at home. Still, Ross says that the knights' focus needs to be a lot better starting with the conference tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flynn on February 17, 2007, 09:18:59 pm
Congrats to the knights who finish up the MIAA season a perfect 16-0, just the second time that's been done. (Hope did it last year as well.) ..... but turned the ball over 25 times to an aggressive Alma defense.


Turnovers will be their doom.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 18, 2007, 06:03:41 am

Turnovers will be their doom.


They need to keep turnovers down, work hard on the boards, and hit more 3-point shots. If they can focus and pull it all together, I think they can go far in the NCAA tournament, but if focus doesn't improve, they won't.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 19, 2007, 10:47:28 pm
SCORES
MIAA Women's tournament

MONDAY - play-in game
Adrian 78, Kalamazoo 66

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
#8 Adrian (8-15) at #1 Calvin (23-1), 7:30 p.m.
#7 Tri-State (6-18) at #2 Hope (21-3), 7:30 p.m.
#6 Alma (10-13) at #3 Saint Mary's (11-12), 7:30 p.m.
#5 Olivet (12-11) at #4 Albion (14-10), 7:30 p.m.

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Hope/Tri-State winner vs. Alma/Saint Mary's winner at highest seed, 7:30 p.m.
Albion/Olivet winner vs. Calvin/Kalamazoo-Adrian winner at highest seed, 7:30 p.m.

SATURDAY - championship
Championship game at highest remaining seed, 3 p.m.

winner advances to NCAA Tournament
Title: Re: MIAA women's pick 'em
Post by: hawk'ster on February 19, 2007, 10:54:46 pm
MIAA Women's tournament

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Lady Knights o Bitchin' Bulldogs
Flying Dutch o Thunderwomen
Belles o Fighting Scots
CometsBritons

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Flying Dutch o Belles
Lady Knights o Comets

SATURDAY - championship
Lady Knights o Flying Dutch
Title: Re: MIAA women's pick 'em
Post by: hawk'ster on February 19, 2007, 10:55:54 pm
MIAA Women's tournament

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Lady Knights o Bitchin' Bulldogs
Flying Dutch o Thunderwomen
Belles o Fighting Scots
CometsBritons

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Flying Dutch o Belles
Lady Knights o Comets

SATURDAY - championship
Lady Knights o Flying Dutch


-- for 200 .... anyone else what to post some picks?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 19, 2007, 11:11:00 pm
Tuesday
Calvin
Hope
Alma
Albion

Thursday
Hope
Calvin

Saturday
Calvin

2 MIAA teams in the NCAAs.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on February 20, 2007, 08:51:42 am
Does anyone know the status of Stacy Warsen from Hope?  I saw that she was out with an injury on Saturday. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flynn on February 20, 2007, 10:03:59 am
MONDAY - play-in game
Adrian 78, Kalamazoo 66

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Calvin
Hope
St Marys
Olivet

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Hope
Olivet - upset special

SATURDAY - championship
Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2007, 10:49:37 am
Does anyone know the status of Stacy Warsen from Hope?  I saw that she was out with an injury on Saturday. 

According to the Sentinel (which means a 50% chance of being right) she will be playing tonight
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2007, 10:50:33 am
Tuesday
Calvin
Hope
Alma
Albion

Thursday
Hope
Calvin

Saturday
Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 20, 2007, 02:23:27 pm
According to the Sentinel (which means a 50% chance of being right) she will be playing tonight

Fifty?

Here are my own personal, painstakingly selected picks for the women's tournament........
Tuesday
Calvin
Hope
Alma
Albion

Thursday
Hope
Calvin

Saturday
Hope

I'll take Hope by 4 to break the tie-breaker
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 20, 2007, 03:33:17 pm
I'll take Hope by 5
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 20, 2007, 09:15:13 pm
SCORES
MIAA Women's tournament

MONDAY - play-in game
Adrian 78, Kalamazoo 66

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Calvin 90, Adrian 52
Hope 85, Tri-State 61
Saint Mary's 66, Alma 54
Albion 80, Olivet 74 (OT)

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Hope/Tri-State winner vs. Alma/Saint Mary's winner at highest seed, 7:30 p.m.
Albion/Olivet winner vs. Calvin/Kalamazoo-Adrian winner at highest seed, 7:30 p.m.

SATURDAY - championship
Championship game at highest remaining seed, 3 p.m.

winner advances to NCAA Tournament
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 20, 2007, 09:18:33 pm
Olivet/Albion 62-62 to overtime
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 20, 2007, 09:39:04 pm
Albion goes from 5 down with under a minute to winning by 6.

Graham's 4 of 16 shooting kept the Britons in it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 20, 2007, 09:42:45 pm
SCORES
MIAA Women's tournament

MONDAY - play-in game
Adrian 78, Kalamazoo 66

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Calvin 90, Adrian 52
Hope 85, Tri-State 61
Saint Mary's 66, Alma 54
Albion 80, Olivet 74 (OT)

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Saint Mary's at Hope
Albion at Calvin

SATURDAY - championship
Championship game at highest remaining seed, 3 p.m.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 21, 2007, 03:40:17 pm
Congrats to Lisa Winkle for being a finalist for the Jousten award.   It seems to me that she is the perfect candidate for this type of award.  She has done extremely well over the last 4 years.  win or lose this one award she is in line for a lot more awards before she is done.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 21, 2007, 03:50:35 pm
Congrats to Lisa Winkle for being a finalist for the Jousten award.   It seems to me that she is the perfect candidate for this type of award.  She has done extremely well over the last 4 years.  win or lose this one award she is in line for a lot more awards before she is done.

Considering she's a Lady Knight, maybe the Jousting award is fitting.   ;D

realist - my apologies for playing off your misspelling, but it was just too good to pass up
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bob MacKenzie on February 21, 2007, 04:14:36 pm
Congrats to Lisa Winkle for being a finalist for the Jousten award.   It seems to me that she is the perfect candidate for this type of award.  She has done extremely well over the last 4 years.  win or lose this one award she is in line for a lot more awards before she is done.

I also see Lindsay Ippel is a finalist.  I believe Lindsay's parents are Calvin grads and John Ross recruited her hard.  Imagine if she had come to play for the Knights.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hawk'ster on February 21, 2007, 07:45:00 pm

I also see Lindsay Ippel is a finalist.  I believe Lindsay's parents are Calvin grads and John Ross recruited her hard.  Imagine if she had come to play for the Knights.

ouch
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2007, 02:53:30 am
Randolph-Macon would've won a national championship ...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 22, 2007, 06:36:34 am
Randolph-Macon would've won a national championship ...

great one
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 07:41:55 pm
Live scoreboards for tonights semi-final action

http://www.calvin.edu/scoreboard/

http://www.hope.edu/athletics/livestats/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 07:51:12 pm
8:38 to go 1st half

Calvin 23 Albion 17

9:48 to go 1st half

Hope 15 St. Mary's 13
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 08:10:37 pm
Halftime in both semi-finals

Calvin 32  Albion 26

Calvin holds Albion scoreless for 5:30, Guimond 13 for SM, Harris 11 for Calvin.

Hope 28 St. Mary's 24

10-0 run around the 6 min mark gives Hope the slim lead,  Wood for Hope with 13
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 08:35:58 pm
I just had to post these score now

Calvin 41 Albion 33  15:30

Hope 41 St. Mary's 33  13:00

yep at the same moment, Hope on 9-0 run after Belle's took the lead.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 08:43:51 pm
Timeout in Holland

Hope 50 SMC 39  8:32

18-6 run since SMC grabbed the lead


Calvin 53 Albion 42   10:01
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 09:08:15 pm
FINALS

Hope 71 St. Mary's 52

Hope played what sounded like a great 10-15 minutes of basketball, a 13-0 run put it away midway through.  Ellen Wood with a 10-13 23pts 10 rebound performance for Hope.

Calvin 70 Albion 54

Harris 18 for Calvin, Guimond 18 Bossard 20 for Albion

Remarkably similar games.

Saturday 3pm at Calvin Fieldhouse

Hope vs Calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 22, 2007, 09:51:09 pm
SCORES
MIAA Women's tournament

MONDAY - play-in game
Adrian 78, Kalamazoo 66

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Calvin 90, Adrian 52
Hope 85, Tri-State 61
Saint Mary's 66, Alma 54
Albion 80, Olivet 74 (OT)

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Hope 71, St. Mary's 52
Calvin 70, Albion 54

SATURDAY - championship
Hope at Calvin, 3 p.m.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on February 23, 2007, 10:40:44 am
Ellen Wood with a 10-13 23pts 10 rebound performance for Hope.

IMHO Wood is a very strong canidate for MVP this season.  While Winkle is all-american great, Wood is a bigger part of her team and should be an AA as well.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 23, 2007, 10:41:24 am
Two solid outings for the knights.

In last night's game, the Britons played very well and hard. They're quick, they pass well, and they can drive to the bucket. They're not too far from a top-25-caliber team. If they played Southern Maine's schedule, they'd probably also be 21-2, or maybe a little worse if they had a couple of bad games. Congrats to Jessica Babcock on a great career.

The knights worked hard, out-rebounding the Britons 36-33 and holding turnovers down to an acceptable 15. Ball movement was good, with 17 assists.

Harris is really starting to stand out offensively. When she's hitting her shots, she's very hard to stop, even from a few feet out, even double teamed. She can get hacked or pushed by about three defenders on her way to the bucket and still get the shot off. Fortunately for the Britons the refs were allowing quite a bit of contact. Lisa Winkle picked up her 14th double-double of the season.

Calvin's win streak is up to 22 games, but from this point on, every game is going to be a huge challenge. Not the least of which is one and possibly two more games against Hope in the next week or so!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 23, 2007, 11:23:21 am
Ellen Wood with a 10-13 23pts 10 rebound performance for Hope.

IMHO Wood is a very strong canidate for MVP this season.  While Winkle is all-american great, Wood is a bigger part of her team and should be an AA as well.

Both of these ladies are excellent players who have had fine careers and are the heart and soul of their respective teams. But Calvin did go undeated in the conference and to me that's the difference maker. I think you have to give the MVP to Lisa.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowman on February 23, 2007, 11:33:38 am
Two solid outings for the knights.

In last night's game, the Britons played very well and hard. They're quick, they pass well, and they can drive to the bucket. They're not too far from a top-25-caliber team. If they played Southern Maine's schedule, they'd probably also be 21-2, or maybe a little worse if they had a couple of bad games. Congrats to Jessica Babcock on a great career.


The question is, does Albion become as good a team playing Southern Maine's schedule . . . or does Southern Maine become a better team playing in the MIAA?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on February 23, 2007, 11:49:36 am

Calvin's win streak is up to 22 games, but from this point on, every game is going to be a huge challenge. Not the least of which is one and possibly two more games against Hope in the next week or so!


If Calvin does play the Dutch two more times this winter no way they win both.  In that scenario I see the Knights winning the MIAA tourney and losing to Hope in the NCAAs.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 23, 2007, 03:23:33 pm
Went to cheer on the Flying Dutch last night against the Saint Mary Belles.  Some notes:

*  KUDOS to the students from Saint Mary's who made the trip to cheer on their team. They NEVER gave up and were a LOT louder than the 3 students from Hope. And what's up with that?  A handful of Hope students at the game, that's it????  I just don't get it?  But the young lads who wore the "Belles" - you got to give them a LOT OF CREDIT. I mean A LOT!!!  ::)

*  The game was quite close the first half with the lead changing a number of times.  Hope came out the second half with a greater will to win.  PLUS they put in both Wood and Lange and Saint Mary's was having a harder time keeping up with that rotation.

*  Now onto the "Leading Scorer" in the MIAA.  Allison Kessler.  She has a very nice shot, and handles the ball okay, BUT WHAT AN ATTITUDE.  She definitely puts the "ME" in Team.  After the game, she "shook" hands with the Hope Ladies, and hardly even acknowledged Coach Morehouse when he stopped specifically to share some words with her, she could definitely take a lesson from fellow teammate Bridget Lipke who had just as much will and determination, but acknowledged the words and gester from both the team and Coach Morehouse.  So the I looked up the Conference stats, and no wonder she's leading the league in scoring, she's played almost 970 minutes compared to 650 for a leading Calvin player and 530 for a leading Hope player.  HOLY COW!!!  Okay I'm done!   :) 

*  Kudos to Julie Henderson for doing a spectacular job on Defense last night.  Hope kept their two leading shooters for Saint Mary's who average 33 points together to just 24 and just 2 assists when they usually average 8!

*  Good Luck Ladies on Saturday at Calvin!  Go Hope!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 23, 2007, 04:45:40 pm
FDF:  No harm no foul.  Do 100 posts perfectly, and no one notices, but misspell one word. :D
Expect Sat's game to be very close.  Home court may just determine the outcome. 
Glad I don't have to vote for mvp.  It is hard when you have several  deserving candidates.  I give the edge to Winkle on the double doubles, and looking at the stats she could have had a few more, but spent loads of time on the bench. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 23, 2007, 05:09:35 pm

Calvin's win streak is up to 22 games, but from this point on, every game is going to be a huge challenge. Not the least of which is one and possibly two more games against Hope in the next week or so!


If Calvin does play the Dutch two more times this winter no way they win both.  In that scenario I see the Knights winning the MIAA tourney and losing to Hope in the NCAAs.

That scenario may not even be a possibility. Hope is on the bubble as to whether they'll get in to the NCAAs if they don't win the MIAA tourney. Currently their QOWI is 10.136, but if they lose another game it'll go down. I read somewhere that the threshold is likely to be about 10 for DIII women's teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on February 23, 2007, 10:59:16 pm
I really don't think the NCAA would keep out Hope if they lose to Calvin in the finals.  Whether of not a have a low QOWI, they've still been ranked in the top 10 in the country.  Do they deserve to be in the tournament if they lose???  I'm sure the Hope fans think so.... but I'm sure a couple of other schools fans would disagree.  It will definitely be interesting.  Maybe Hope will beat Calvin this time 'round, and we won't have to discuss this senario ;)  Should be a fun one to watch it.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2007, 07:51:40 am
I really don't think the NCAA would keep out Hope if they lose to Calvin in the finals.  Whether of not a have a low QOWI, they've still been ranked in the top 10 in the country.  Do they deserve to be in the tournament if they lose???  I'm sure the Hope fans think so.... but I'm sure a couple of other schools fans would disagree.  It will definitely be interesting.  Maybe Hope will beat Calvin this time 'round, and we won't have to discuss this senario ;)  Should be a fun one to watch it.

I don't like the QOWI system any better than the next guy, and Hope clearly deserves to dance if the tournament picks are supposed to even faintly resemble the best teams. However, them's the rules, at least for this year.

Hope's QOWI will fall to 9.583 if they lose to Calvin (or something close to that; it could also be affected by other teams' wins or losses). Definitely marginal at best for getting into the NCAAs.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 07:59:10 am
This morning's edition of the Holland Sentinel had an article on the NCAA proposal to ban the use of male practice players at women's practices. The NCAA believes that the use of men at practice is not in the spirit of Title IX and the stated reason for that belief is that using male practice players reduces opportunities for women. Can anyone explain how women's opportunities are reduced by using men at practice? Is the NCAA saying that using men reduces the practice time that would go to women and, therefore, this constitutes invidious discrimination? ??? Couldn't women argue that the use of men at women's practices improves the skill level of women and banning such use discriminates  by failing to give women the opportunity to utilize all possible tools for such improvement?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2007, 08:25:59 am
Couldn't women argue that the use of men at women's practices improves the skill level of women and banning such use discriminates  by failing to give women the opportunity to utilize all possible tools for such improvement?

NO!

At least not in the NCAA's world. That would give tacit assent to the proposition that men tend to be taller and faster than women. :o A college president could get fired for suggesting such a thing. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2007, 10:06:58 am
This morning's edition of the Holland Sentinel had an article on the NCAA proposal to ban the use of male practice players at women's practices. The NCAA believes that the use of men at practice is not in the spirit of Title IX and the stated reason for that belief is that using male practice players reduces opportunities for women.

No, a select committee of NCAA members feels this is the case. Let's not paint the NCAA office with this broad brush unfairly on this one.

Back on Jan. 7, Hoopsville did an on-air discussion of this topic with women's basketball coaches and administrators. It might be worth listening to:

http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/07/malepracticing10707.mp3
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 10:45:18 am
Couldn't women argue that the use of men at women's practices improves the skill level of women and banning such use discriminates  by failing to give women the opportunity to utilize all possible tools for such improvement?

NO!

At least not in the NCAA's world. That would give tacit assent to the proposition that men tend to be taller and faster than women. :o A college president could get fired for suggesting such a thing. ;)


Being the gender sensitive guy that I am ( ;)) you'll note that I began asking the question with the words "Couldn't women argue . . . ?" I really don't want to be Larry Summers--although I wouldn't mind having his severance package. 8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 11:20:53 am
This morning's edition of the Holland Sentinel had an article on the NCAA proposal to ban the use of male practice players at women's practices. The NCAA believes that the use of men at practice is not in the spirit of Title IX and the stated reason for that belief is that using male practice players reduces opportunities for women.

No, a select committee of NCAA members feels this is the case. Let's not paint the NCAA office with this broad brush unfairly on this one.

Back on Jan. 7, Hoopsville did an on-air discussion of this topic with women's basketball coaches and administrators. It might be worth listening to:

http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/07/malepracticing10707.mp3


Pat:

Thanks for the link and the discussion d3hoops did on this issue. Val Cushman, Randolph-Macon Womens' AD basically answered my question (the one I asked with respect to reduction of women's practice opportunities) in the affimative. That is, she said those who want the issue addressed are concerned that women's opportunities are negatively affected by male practice players at womens' practices because if a man is on the floor practicing, that necessarily means that a woman is not. I couldn't tell from the discussion whether Cushman has a strong belief one way or the other on this issue.

I don't think my comments could be construed as painting the NCAA with a broad brush but if there is a select committee operating under the authority of the NCAA then doesn't any of the committee's recommendations necessarily include the NCAA itself? I didn't think my comments were unfair to the organization although I do recognize the entire organization has not yet made a final decision.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2007, 11:43:34 am
Here's the article

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/022407/local_20070224003.shtml


Really I don't know the rule on this at all, but the thing that stuck out to me was Hope's women's AD made a good point about St. Mary's College and their problem with having no male students.

Definately doesn't sound like coaches want it to change.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 24, 2007, 12:19:38 pm
Can anyone explain how women's opportunities are reduced by using men at practice? Is the NCAA saying that using men reduces the practice time that would go to women and, therefore, this constitutes invidious discrimination?

Do any coaches (men's team) bring in five or six post-collegiate basketball players to practice against their varsity while the other 7-8 team members shoot free throws or just watch?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 12:42:54 pm
Can anyone explain how women's opportunities are reduced by using men at practice? Is the NCAA saying that using men reduces the practice time that would go to women and, therefore, this constitutes invidious discrimination?

Do any coaches (men's team) bring in five or six post-collegiate basketball players to practice against their varsity while the other 7-8 team members shoot free throws or just watch?

There would be if any of them thought it would help get their team better prepared to play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 24, 2007, 01:13:33 pm
I think that would be considered a scrimmage actually.........aren't schools restricted in the number of scrimmages they can hold?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: David Collinge on February 24, 2007, 01:25:09 pm
The issue of women's teams using male practice players was also brought up in the Daily Dose in January.  Here's a link to that discussion (http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2007/01/02/who-should-teams-practice-against/), which also includes a well-reasoned and well-written take by Vassar's head women's coach Barb Bausch.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on February 24, 2007, 01:54:01 pm
This morning's edition of the Holland Sentinel had an article on the NCAA proposal to ban the use of male practice players at women's practices. The NCAA believes that the use of men at practice is not in the spirit of Title IX and the stated reason for that belief is that using male practice players reduces opportunities for women. Can anyone explain how women's opportunities are reduced by using men at practice? Is the NCAA saying that using men reduces the practice time that would go to women and, therefore, this constitutes invidious discrimination? ??? Couldn't women argue that the use of men at women's practices improves the skill level of women and banning such use discriminates  by failing to give women the opportunity to utilize all possible tools for such improvement?
There was an article on this in the most recent "Chronicle of Higher Education" about the use of this practice at the DI level. Two interesting quotes in the story (and I'm going from memory here, so I can't vouch for the accuracy). The first came from the coach of the University of Maryland's team, who places certain restrictions on how the male players can play, but argued they were invaluable because they were "quicker, stronger, faster, and more physical" and thus really elevate the women's level of play. The second quote came from the person who was bringing the action against the NCAA (can't remember the name) who argued that "such practices rely on archaic notions of male pre-eminence." A sociologist, no doubt, and the coaches seem to know something this person doesn't.

The action was initiated by some female players who argued they were being deprived of practice time as a result. They quickly solicited the help of ideological equity proponents who saw here an opportunity to grind a political axe.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on February 24, 2007, 02:16:52 pm
I think that would be considered a scrimmage actually.

Very good point.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 03:24:52 pm
Hope women are off to a nice start this afternoon. Up 27-16 10 minutes into the game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 03:47:55 pm
Hope  41
Calvin 31
Half

Solid half by the Hope women. Brian Morehouse is being described as at his "most intense ever," which wouldn't surprise me. Hope has been so close to beating Calvin twice and although I think both of these teams will be playing in the NCAA tourney (I would be shocked if the loser doesn't get a Pool C bid, I'd say Calvin is guaranteed a Pool C and Hope all but assured one) it'd be great to see Hope win this game.

I hope the NCAA doesn't put these two teams in the same bracket for the first weekend. Shoot, you know they will too. Stupid NCAA >:(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 04:23:56 pm
Hope seems to be running into trouble as Calvin has gone on a nice little run to bring the game to 58-56 with 9 minutes left.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on February 24, 2007, 04:40:52 pm
Another barnburner.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 04:44:22 pm
these have been great games all year.

Marcia Harris got hurt with about 4 minutes left in the game and has left for the locker room. She had 23 of Calvin's points. Lisa Winkle has another 23. If Hope could guard just one of them they would be in good shape. For Calvin's sake you have to hope Harris' injury is not too serious and she will be able to play next weekend in the NCAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on February 24, 2007, 04:53:51 pm
Let's just hope the NCAA is smart enough to keep these two teams apart as long as possible!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 04:58:00 pm
Hope 71
Calvin 68

A great, hard fought game again. Hope is now 4-0 against Calvin in MIAA championship games.

In addition to losing this game Calvin suffered two big injuries late in the game. Calvin should be a lock for a Pool C bid, however, with these injuries it could be bad.

Marcia Harris left the game with about 4 minutes left to an apparent knee injury. She was taken off the court without putting any weight on her knee and headed straight to the locker room.

With about 20 seconds left Christy Brummel went down to an ankle injury and she was also taken off the court without placing any weight on her ankle.

Those are both potentially huge losses for the #2 Calvin women, especially Harris who has had two monster games against Hope including 23 this afternoon.

Good luck to both teams tomorrow and lets hope they are not placed in the same bracket so any meeting would be at least in the Sweet 16.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2007, 05:15:39 pm
In past games Calvin's three-point shooting kept them in it. This time I think they only hit one trey, but they were still able to fight back from a 13-point deficit. They looked as though they were going to win it until Harris went out.

Losing Harris and/or Brummel would be a huge blow.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 24, 2007, 05:24:45 pm
great job hope girls and lets hope the men win tonight to go  2-0  vs calvin today
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 24, 2007, 05:33:31 pm
In past games Calvin's three-point shooting kept them in it. This time I think they only hit one trey, but they were still able to fight back from a 13-point deficit. They looked as though they were going to win it until Harris went out.

Losing Harris and/or Brummel would be a huge blow.


The stat sheet shows 2-18 from the arc. I hate to say it but the losses of Harris and Brummel means Calvin is toast for the NCAA tournament and from his post game comments you can tell that John Ross knows it. I feel badly for the team and I'm sure the Hope players do too.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 06:02:37 pm
In past games Calvin's three-point shooting kept them in it. This time I think they only hit one trey, but they were still able to fight back from a 13-point deficit. They looked as though they were going to win it until Harris went out.

Losing Harris and/or Brummel would be a huge blow.


The stat sheet shows 2-18 from the arc. I hate to say it but the losses of Harris and Brummel means Calvin is toast for the NCAA tournament and from his post game comments you can tell that John Ross knows it. I feel badly for the team and I'm sure the Hope players do too.

Do we know the severity of Harris' injury? She clearly is a more important part of the team than Brummel's and they could easily be out in the first weekend without her.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AndersDY on February 24, 2007, 06:24:42 pm
Of all the ways to win such a great game, that has to be the worst. For those not there, Brummel's injury came as she was dribbling around the arc on potentially Calvin's final possession on which they were looking for a 3-pointer to tie. She pretty much crumbled to the floor which of course included losing the ball to a Hope player which then let Hope get to the line once more to ice the game with about 7 seconds left. An exciting game, but with a giant damper on it with the injuries in the final minutes.

I was sitting right over the shoulder of WHTC and got to watch the stats throughout the game. Hope jumped out in the first half with their defense, I believe points off turnovers were 22-2 at the half. Calvin could have been run out of the gym, except that they had basically twice as many rebounds as Hope the whole way. Fortunately Hope was able to hang on by shooting better than 80% from the line (and boy were there a lot of FTs today...).

Real unfortunate for Calvin's tournament chances if Harris is done for the year. With both Winkle and Harris on the floor, Calvin is extremely difficult to defend. Having just Winkle allows teams to focus on her much more.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: BrainOfJ. on February 24, 2007, 07:37:51 pm
Good Job Hope Women. You've earned your bid for sure.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on February 24, 2007, 07:42:31 pm

Do we know the severity of Harris' injury? She clearly is a more important part of the team than Brummel's and they could easily be out in the first weekend without her.

But Calvin has a post to come off the bench.  With Calvin's already poor guard play who's going to replace Brummel?  Without her 3s in Calvin v Hope II Hope wins two at Knollcrest this winter.

MRIs should be done tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 24, 2007, 09:33:28 pm

Do we know the severity of Harris' injury? She clearly is a more important part of the team than Brummel's and they could easily be out in the first weekend without her.

But Calvin has a post to come off the bench.  With Calvin's already poor guard play who's going to replace Brummel?  Without her 3s in Calvin v Hope II Hope wins two at Knollcrest this winter.

MRIs should be done tonight.

According to Doug Wentworth, both Harris and Brummel are possible ACLs. That really really ... isn't nice. Both for them and for the team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 24, 2007, 10:52:33 pm

Do we know the severity of Harris' injury? She clearly is a more important part of the team than Brummel's and they could easily be out in the first weekend without her.

But Calvin has a post to come off the bench.  With Calvin's already poor guard play who's going to replace Brummel?  Without her 3s in Calvin v Hope II Hope wins two at Knollcrest this winter.

MRIs should be done tonight.

According to Doug Wentworth, both Harris and Brummel are possible ACLs. That really really ... isn't nice. Both for them and for the team.


Wow, that is very sad if that is the case. To lose two players to ACL injuries within 4 minutes of playing time of the conference championship. Have to feel bad for Calvin ladies tonight. Best of luck to Brummels and Harris.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 24, 2007, 10:56:29 pm

Do we know the severity of Harris' injury? She clearly is a more important part of the team than Brummel's and they could easily be out in the first weekend without her.

But Calvin has a post to come off the bench.  With Calvin's already poor guard play who's going to replace Brummel?  Without her 3s in Calvin v Hope II Hope wins two at Knollcrest this winter.

MRIs should be done tonight.

According to Doug Wentworth, both Harris and Brummel are possible ACLs. That really really ... isn't nice. Both for them and for the team.


I have to say that I've wtinessed someone blowing their ACL in the past, and both Harris and Brummel looked to be just that.  Such a bad thing to happen to two good players.   Prayers will be offered for both.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 24, 2007, 11:00:04 pm
the hope should  be able to host a 1st round game  it would be nice not calvin right away to play
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2007, 01:04:01 am
It was a great hard fought game at Calvin today.   Honestly though the last play by Calvin just left a pit in your stomach.  I felt terrible for the Knights........everyone there deserved to see if  Calvin could tie it.   Following just minutes after Harris went down was just cruel.  Sometimes you wonder about the fella upstairs. :-\


I think coach Ross should send a tape of Harris' injury to the supervisor of officials.  If I saw what I thought I did, the refs had 4 chances to stop that play before an injury occurred and didn't do it.  Granted I don't know when the injury occurred but it looked like it happened at the end.

1.  There was an initial foul on the play, call it and no mad scramble

2.  Probably could have called reaching in or a push on the scramble

3.  Hope player has posession calling timeout

4.  A Hope and Calvin player had posession, jump ball

The whistle took forever and a better whistle could have avoided injury.


Maybe I'm way off here, but that part of it was disappointing.

Very devastating day for the Knights, no one wants to see injuries in such big games and such important times of the year.

....and I agree the NCAA would be well served to keep these two far, far apart in the brackets.  But certainly you wonder about the Knights chances now,  Winkle will and is capable of carrying the load.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 25, 2007, 06:04:50 am
It was a great hard fought game at Calvin today.   Honestly though the last play by Calvin just left a pit in your stomach.  I felt terrible for the Knights........everyone there deserved to see if  Calvin could tie it.   Following just minutes after Harris went down was just cruel.  Sometimes you wonder about the fella upstairs. :-\


I think coach Ross should send a tape of Harris' injury to the supervisor of officials.  If I saw what I thought I did, the refs had 4 chances to stop that play before an injury occurred and didn't do it.  Granted I don't know when the injury occurred but it looked like it happened at the end.

1.  There was an initial foul on the play, call it and no mad scramble

2.  Probably could have called reaching in or a push on the scramble

3.  Hope player has posession calling timeout

4.  A Hope and Calvin player had posession, jump ball

The whistle took forever and a better whistle could have avoided injury.


Thank you thank you thank you for saying it. I hate to complain about the reffing in a situation like this, but I was thinking earlier of posting and offering to take up a collection to help the MIAA hire some refs who could keep the game under control.

Too late now.

I didn't see any sort of contact in Brummel's case, though. It looked as though she just twisted her knee a little and crumpled to the floor in pain.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 25, 2007, 01:16:10 pm
Did anyone else think the game was over-the-top physical? 

I think coach Ross should send a tape of Harris' injury to the supervisor of officials.  If I saw what I thought I did, the refs had 4 chances to stop that play before an injury occurred and didn't do it.  Granted I don't know when the injury occurred but it looked like it happened at the end.

Again, I've never seen a men's game as physical as these women's games.  What is the thinking behind allowing such physical play?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Harrier on February 25, 2007, 01:21:36 pm
SCORES
MIAA Women's tournament

MONDAY - play-in game
Adrian 78, Kalamazoo 66

TUESDAY - quarterfinals
Calvin 90, Adrian 52
Hope 85, Tri-State 61
Saint Mary's 66, Alma 54
Albion 80, Olivet 74 (OT)

THURSDAY - semi-finals
Hope 71, St. Mary's 52
Calvin 70, Albion 54

SATURDAY - championship
Hope 71, Calvin 68
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on February 25, 2007, 07:56:10 pm
Don't expect Harris or Brummel back anytime soon.

Losing them hurts--a lot.

Still, the knights have a deep team. I wonder if they can pull together in this adversity and still make a good NCAA run. Everyone else will have to step up a bit. They'll really have to pull together. But they do have the depth and the potential.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on February 25, 2007, 08:05:09 pm
Don't expect Harris or Brummel back anytime soon.

Losing them hurts--a lot.

Still, the knights have a deep team. I wonder if they can pull together in this adversity and still make a good NCAA run. Everyone else will have to step up a bit. They'll really have to pull together. But they do have the depth and the potential.


I couldn't agree more.  It is very sad to lose two players in this manner.  Coach Ross said he'd rather lose by 40 points than to see these two young women get injured.

But, let's not give up on the rest fo the team.  Calvin is a deep and talented team and very well coached.  Oh, oh, I shouldn't have made that last comment because sac is probably going to think it's a slam against Hope's coach. :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(

Go Lady Knights!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 25, 2007, 08:33:54 pm
SAC and Dark Knight I could not agree more with your comments about the play that led to Harris' injury.  I have seen several similar situations this year where there was plenty of opportunity to call a jump ball, but instead the refs let the play proceed as more and more players get involved increasing the risk of injury.  Often the end result is a cheap foul or traveling call (as in the case of this play).  It makes me sick to see Harris with a serious injury well after the whistle should have ended the scrimmage.  I think all real fans want to see the game settled by the players.

Hopefully neither injury is as bad as feared and the recoveries will be quick and complete.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 25, 2007, 10:28:08 pm
Calvin is in  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 26, 2007, 10:23:59 am
Not sure from these brackets who got the worse deal Calvin or Hope.  I am sure Hope fans aren't wild about going back to De Pauw.  It is going to be very hard for Calvin to mount an effective tournament with key players missing.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2007, 11:13:18 am
One of these deserved a hosting opportunity.  But at least they kept them apart and can't meet untill elite 8 if they advanced.


Hope at DePauw is a gentle reminder that the NCAA really doesn't care what we think.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dothedew on February 26, 2007, 12:25:22 pm
BOO FREAKIN' HISS to the NCAA for sending the Hope ladies to DePauw this year after the MESS that was last season. I was fortunate/unfortunate to see that elite 8 game and the mess it caused after the fact. We don't need to dive back into the argument...but for those of us that were there...it was CRAP!
DUMB/DUMB/DUMB.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DPU3619 on February 26, 2007, 12:30:13 pm
Welcome back, friends!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on February 26, 2007, 01:03:23 pm
Yes, welcome back. 

BOO FREAKIN' HISS to the NCAA for sending the Hope ladies to DePauw this year after the MESS that was last season. I was fortunate/unfortunate to see that elite 8 game and the mess it caused after the fact. We don't need to dive back into the argument...but for those of us that were there...it was CRAP!
DUMB/DUMB/DUMB.


I'm so glad the "saintly" fans from Hope are coming back down to Greencastle.  I laughed as soon as the pairings came out because I wondered how quickly the fans from Hope would jump up and down and throw a fit (Thanks for being the first dothedew).  It amazes me that you care to talk more about the fans' behavior than the actual game itself. 

To what MATTERS THE MOST!!!!! - The Game

Hope vs. Denison
DePauw vs. Transylvania

Should be some very competitive 1st and 2nd round games in Greencastle this Friday!

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2007, 05:54:43 pm
All MIAA team announced

Lisa Winkle, Calvin MVP

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/index.html
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 26, 2007, 06:48:46 pm
Julie Henderson - Defensive Player of the Year

Hope has played much better over the past couple of weeks and look to be peaking at just the right time.

A big part of the resurgence has been Henderson's all around play.  Her assist to turnover ratio has been good and her shot selection excellant.  If the posts are open she distributes the ball inside, but if the posts are covered she has found the open lane or Boyles open for the jumper.  Obviously, she has played good defense all year, but has really stepped it up to the next level the past two games.

Boyles has also been driving the basket with confidence and her three point touch has returned.

It is unlikely that the Dutch 4s and 5s will have to face the size / talent combination Calvin put on the floor last Saturday with Harris, Winkle and Willet in at the same time.  But with Henderson and Boyles at the top of their game, slowing Woods and Lange is certainly not a guaranteed route to victory.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 26, 2007, 11:51:49 pm
I think it took 2 days for those grapes to turn sour.  :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 27, 2007, 01:34:52 pm
Dark Knight I noticed Coach Morehouse voicing heated complaints to the refs on a couple of occasions, and from my vantage point it looked like some of the picks set to free up Winkle and Harris involved some grasping and foot sliding.

There are two posible conclusions to our observations; we either did not attend the same game....

or our view was clouded by our loyalties.

My physics is not good enough to justify the parallel universe theory, so my inclination is to go with the latter option.

I didn't see anything from either team that could be called dirty .... I saw two evenly matched teams that wanted to win contesting every play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2007, 02:57:56 pm
I think it took 2 days for those grapes to turn sour.  :P

sac's grapes normally turn sour right away.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on February 27, 2007, 04:36:37 pm
Both coaches were talking with the refs most of the game.  I thought they were paid to do that.  Calvin's problem wasn't the officials, it was turnovers. :)  You can not reasonably expect to win a hotly contested game with that number of turnovers.   Calvin needed to protect, and value the ball, and failed to do so.  Points to Hope for knowing/exploiting a Calvin weakness.  Frankly, Calvin should expect to see all future teams pressure the ball.  A guard should not pick up the dribble without having an exit strategy for the ball ahead of time.
Calvin got beat by a team that simply did what it had to do to win the game.  Don't fault Hope or the refs. because we did not solve the problem. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 27, 2007, 04:47:59 pm
Is there an official word on the injuries to Harris and Brummels? I know the consensus was serious, season ending injuries but has that been confirmed?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 27, 2007, 05:29:33 pm
I heard both Brummel and Harris are out with MCL injuries.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hoper Upper on February 28, 2007, 12:46:41 pm
An MCL injury is not as serious as an ACL injury.  Depending upon the severity of the MCL injury, it might be possible to play with a knee brace. 

According to my info, Brummel is out for the playoffs.  Harris might be able to play with a knee brace.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 28, 2007, 04:33:12 pm
I googled MCL injuries and found the following:

http://orthopedics.about.com/cs/kneeinjuries/a/mclinjury.htm

The article indicates that surgery is seldom required and depending on the severity, recovery can be fairly quick.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on February 28, 2007, 04:36:28 pm
I think it took 2 days for those grapes to turn sour.  :P

Sac--I'm not understanding your p.o.v.  On the previous page you summarized how that particular play could have been stopped by the refs stepping in before the injury occurred.  Hope's players were playing within what the refs would allow, DK is saying that he saw things that the refs should not have allowed.  I'm just not sure what is sour grapes about that.  
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 28, 2007, 05:28:35 pm
northb
Anyone who saw that play would never come to the conclusion it was a dirty play........not what Dark Knight was referring to either.   DK was referring to the overall game...........which I would never come close to describing as dirty.........in fact it wasn't nearly as physical as the Hope/Calvin game I saw in Holland.  DK's assertion that Hope played dirty I interpret as an attempt to downplay his teams loss, and an attempt to label a Hope team in a way that in no way should they be labled.

For what its worth, the Calvin girl got hurt when a teamate rolled over her, not a Hope player.

The sour grapes..........just my attempt at humor which seems to repeatedly sail over the heads of certain posters.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 01, 2007, 04:45:14 pm
Be sure to read the nice article on Willet, and Partridge in the Around the Nation section.  A very nice piece on two players being asked to step up their games. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 02, 2007, 05:41:05 pm
Well let's hope the MIAA is represented better at Wilmington and Aurora than at Greencastle.  Good grief!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 02, 2007, 05:44:20 pm
Wow, Hope 18 Denison 40, at the half.  Hope 6-27 (22%) for field goals. Denison 14-30 for 47%.

Calvin over Thomas More 15-5 about half way through the first half. Sounds like Thomas More is not used to the kind of defense the Knights are bringing.

Thomas More is double teaming Winkle at every opportunity.

Now 19-13. Winkle is getting triple-teamed and Calvin's three-point attempts aren't falling.

Walker got a 3, making it 24-15.

26-20 at the half.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 05:47:34 pm
DK:  I am checking that out it just doesn't sound good for Hope.  I am sure they have a very hostle crowd in IN.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:03:07 pm
Not sure Calvin has enough depth left to survive tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:10:11 pm
Hope 0-9 on 3's just not the women's night I guess.  It doesn't sound like it's getting any better.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 02, 2007, 06:23:33 pm
Calvin 34-25. It sounds like Winkle is getting tired.

13:52, Calvin up 38-27.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:24:11 pm
Den 56 Hope 39  10 min.  Hope making a run.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:25:39 pm
I think you are right.  Good to hear Partridge in.  Big problem for tomorrow if they survive tonight.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:28:10 pm
Hope has several of the Denison women with 4 fouls.  Perhaps if they can get them out Hope has a chance.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:40:42 pm
70 - 52.  One an done I am afraind for the Hope women.  Let's Hope this isn't some sort of omen for the MIAA.

Winkle a double double, and Calvin by 11 7:05 left.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 02, 2007, 06:49:10 pm
2:53 left, Calvin up 48-36.

2:00 left, 53-38.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:51:00 pm
Very good season for the Hope women.  Hate to see it end this way, but they had a great couple of seasons.  Sadly the 3 just wasn't there today.  82-66
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 02, 2007, 06:51:25 pm
Denison 82
Hope 66
Final
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:52:34 pm
Calvin with 2 min. to go should survive if they keep making the ft's.  53-38.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 06:57:24 pm
Great win for the lady Knights.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 02, 2007, 06:57:54 pm
53-38 Final! Knights move on, with a school record for most victories in a season. That's a better result than Massey's prediction, despite the shorter roster.

Lisa Winkle with 14 points and 13 rebounds, double-teamed the whole night. Zimmerman with 15.

Coach Ross told the team before the game that they need to hold Thomas More to 40 points. There going to need similar defensive efforts here on out.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 08:04:57 pm
DK:  I bet it is quiet on this board for a while. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on March 02, 2007, 08:09:26 pm
Very good season for the Hope women.  Hate to see it end this way, but they had a great couple of seasons.  Sadly the 3 just wasn't there today.  82-66

Amen.  The Dutch are a great team and had a great year.  Their MIAA Tourney Championship was a tremendous accomplishment.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 08:36:45 pm
Looks like Calvin will face Wilmington in the 2nd round.  It would be nice if they could get a nice relaxing night of sleep.  I am sure we will see everyone key on Winkle.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 02, 2007, 08:41:12 pm
Looks like Calvin will face Wilmington in the 2nd round.  It would be nice if they could get a nice relaxing night of sleep.  I am sure we will see everyone key on Winkle.

I'll be curious to see the box score. But if teams continue to key on Winkle it'd help if the  rest of the team got hot from behind the arc again...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 02, 2007, 09:01:58 pm
Amen on that.  Zimmernan hit a couple key shots today.  Really need to see Partridge play more key minutes.  I think key is going to be defense, and Calvin protecting the ball.  If Calvin can rest Winkle some they should match up well with Wilmington.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 03, 2007, 08:44:52 pm
Calvin got way behind in the first half, but in the start of the second half, Calvin went on a 27-8 scoring run to take a 66-60 lead! Under 4 minutes to go. The knights finally got hot from behind the arc in the second half.

68-62, Winkle with 20 points.

Zimmerman missed a three, Wilmington made one. 68-66.

1:09 left, 1 point lead for Calvin.

70-67 Calvin, 44 seconds left! Time out Wilmington.

73-67 14 seconds left.

34-15 scoring run for Calvin over the last 15 minutes. Incredible!

Winkle blocked a three-point attempt, and Calvin is headed to the sweet 16! Final score 73-67.

22 points, 14 rebounds for Winkle.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 03, 2007, 09:04:02 pm
I say to my great shame and my great joy that Calvin's Lady Knights have made me out to be a fool :-[ ;D--not that I needed the help.  When Harris and Brummel went down I predicted the women's team wouldn't win a game in the NCAA. Now they're in the sweet 16. Impressive work by the Lady Knights and Coach Ross.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 03, 2007, 09:05:00 pm
Way to go Calvin women.   Fantastic finish.  I didn't think it could possibly happen, but they keep focused, and got the job done.
1 down, and 1 to go.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 03, 2007, 09:07:46 pm
The road only get tougher from here, but it is nice to see the Lady Knights be able to prove they are not a one dimension team. :)  Have to agree it sure sounds like winkle was playing on pure emotion.  No question she is one great player.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 03, 2007, 09:08:07 pm
Again, Calvin did about 8 points better than Massey's prediction -- even with the shortened roster.

Calvin will play either Southern Maine or Fitchburg St in the sweet 16. I think they should have a pretty good shot at either of those teams.

The sectional will also include Emmanuel and DePauw. If they have the sectional in Grand Rapids or Greencastle, IN, two teams will have to fly, and if they have the sectional in MA or ME, two teams will have to fly. So it doesn't really matter from that perspective who hosts.

So who's likely to get the nod?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 03, 2007, 11:13:40 pm
Again, Calvin did about 8 points better than Massey's prediction -- even with the shortened roster.

Calvin will play either Southern Maine or Fitchburg St in the sweet 16. I think they should have a pretty good shot at either of those teams.

The sectional will also include Emmanuel and DePauw. If they have the sectional in Grand Rapids or Greencastle, IN, two teams will have to fly, and if they have the sectional in MA or ME, two teams will have to fly. So it doesn't really matter from that perspective who hosts.

So who's likely to get the nod?


In the last published results Calvin was ranked No. 1 in the Great Lakes region and DePauw was No. 2. I don't know whether Calvin's loss in the conference tourney moved them back a spot but if the NCAA takes Horace Greeley's advice it would seem to me that Calvin has a good shot at hosting. :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 04, 2007, 08:03:40 am
In the last published results Calvin was ranked No. 1 in the Great Lakes region and DePauw was No. 2. I don't know whether Calvin's loss in the conference tourney moved them back a spot but if the NCAA takes Horace Greeley's advice it would seem to me that Calvin has a good shot at hosting. :-\

"Go west, go west, like Horace Greeley sayst"? Don't forget that he descended into madness and died a bitter man. [Wikipedia rules! Like the Kronemeyer sisters!]

Calvin's loss to Hope in the MIAA tourney makes only one regional loss, to DePauw's three. But the last QOWI list had DePauw at 10.905, Calvin at 10.550.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 04, 2007, 02:50:40 pm
In a game that will determine Calvin's next opponent, Southern Maine is trailing Fitchburg State 31-30 at halftime.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Stinger on March 04, 2007, 03:13:38 pm
Emmanuel is the host. That's a heckuva way to travel. But, hey, a weekend in Boston? Can't beat it.  Good luck Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 04, 2007, 03:43:26 pm
Last I heard, Southern Maine is up 10 points on Fitchburg State late in that game. Fitchburg State's had a passel of players foul out. (Southern Maine feed kept breaking up on me-).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 04, 2007, 04:18:54 pm
Massey says Calvin over Southern Maine 69-59 on neutral wood (using ratings that don't account for the last two games).

Average power rating for last two games:

Calvin 20.0
Southern Maine 6.8
DePauw 16.5
Emmanuel 8.7


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: knightrider on March 04, 2007, 06:23:57 pm
Does any one else think that Calvin got a little screwed having to travel instead of host?  They are the highest ranked team of the four, but instead the lowest ranked team of the four is hosting.  OUt of the four the only places that I thought it could have been was Calvin and DePauw, with Calvin getting the edge because of regional ranking and because they have an airport.  From where I am sitting, there isn't much justification for having Emmanuel host because two teams have to fly either way.  I just think that it is a little odd that they aren't hosting, and if you think about last year, Hope didn't host either on their tournament run, given the guys hosted the first couple rounds, but that shouldn't have mattered after the first rounds.  They were the higher seed and were given a harder road.  They shouldn't have had to go to Capital and then DePauw last year and Calvin shouldn't be going to Emmanuel this year.  Just my thoughts, what do the rest think?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DePauw05 on March 04, 2007, 06:24:45 pm
Can someone enlighten me on the wisdom behind sending Calvin, Southern Maine, and DePauw to lowest seed Emmanuel in Boston on Friday?   I doubt it had to do with cost effectiveness of travel to Boston as flights appear to be $800 to $1,000, and hotel rates are likely higher in Boston as well.  Although I'm a biased DePauw fan, I thought Calvin or DePauw would have made more sense as hosts since both are ranked higher and it's a two school flight situation no matter who hosts.  
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: DePauw05 on March 04, 2007, 06:26:48 pm
was typing when you posted, knightrider.  I agree
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 05, 2007, 12:08:31 am
I have to say I would have lost a lot of money betting that Hope would get further than Calvin in the tournament after the injuries.  Congrats to the Knights thats a nice accomplishment. 

This is the 8th time an MIAA time has made sectionals, but very impressively its the 7th time in 9 years and 3rd year in a row.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 02:18:05 am
Can someone enlighten me on the wisdom behind sending Calvin, Southern Maine, and DePauw to lowest seed Emmanuel in Boston on Friday? 

Sure. Emmanuel is not actually the lowest seed in the NCAA's eye. They're the highest.

Those who were quoting QOWI and regional winning percentage earlier in comparing DePauw and Calvin might want to check what Emmanuel's numbers are.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 06, 2007, 11:39:09 am
Congrats to Calvin's Lisa Winkle - Josten award winner for 2007!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 06, 2007, 12:03:21 pm
Congrats to Calvin's Lisa Winkle - Josten award winner for 2007!!

Wow, that's a great honor. Well-deserved, too.

The Grand Rapids Press had an article  (http://www.mlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports-5/1173102902309990.xml?grpress?SPSM&coll=6&thispage=2)yesterday saying that Winkle was very sick last weekend while doing double duty in the post (and bed-ridden on Sunday). She asked to be taken out at one point because if she didn't sit down, she was sure her "head was going to explode."

The article also said that the Knights "launched an uncharacteristic 30 3-point field-goal attempts--and made 8--to beat Wilmington." 

'"I was wondering where that came from," Calvin coach John Ross said. "But Lindsey Peuler, one of our defensive stoppers, came in and drained three big 3s for us.'

The Knights are going to need continued stepping-up in order to keep playing.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 06, 2007, 12:15:47 pm
congrats to Lisa Winkle.

I don't recall an MIAA player winning a jostens award before.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 06, 2007, 01:09:52 pm
Congrats to Calvin's Lisa Winkle - Josten award winner for 2007!!

Wow, that's a great honor. Well-deserved, too.

The Grand Rapids Press had an article  (http://www.mlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports-5/1173102902309990.xml?grpress?SPSM&coll=6&thispage=2)yesterday saying that Winkle was very sick last weekend while doing double duty in the post (and bed-ridden on Sunday). She asked to be taken out at one point because if she didn't sit down, she was sure her "head was going to explode."

The article also said that the Knights "launched an uncharacteristic 30 3-point field-goal attempts--and made 8--to beat Wilmington." 

'"I was wondering where that came from," Calvin coach John Ross said. "But Lindsey Peuler, one of our defensive stoppers, came in and drained three big 3s for us.'

The Knights are going to need continued stepping-up in order to keep playing.


And to think Lisa--while sick--played 35 minutes of ball in a close, intense, must-win game scoring 22 points (6-13 from the floor, 10-10 from the stripe), grabbed 13 rebounds and blocked 2 shots. Mighty impressive numbers if she had been healthy but under the circumstances downright Jordanesque.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 06, 2007, 02:37:23 pm
Excellent, excellent award for Lisa, and Calvin, and the entire MIAA.  Of all the post season awards that can be given out I think this one indicates truely what the D3 athlete is.  She has had an excellent career.  It is going to be tough for Calvin to replace her next year.
I do not recall any other MIAA students winning this award.  Not even sure how many have been one of the finalist.   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 06, 2007, 02:59:35 pm
Excellent, excellent award for Lisa, and Calvin, and the entire MIAA.  Of all the post season awards that can be given out I think this one indicates truely what the D3 athlete is.  She has had an excellent career.  It is going to be tough for Calvin to replace her next year.
I do not recall any other MIAA students winning this award.  Not even sure how many have been one of the finalist.   

Ironically, another Winkle (Aaron) was a finalist in 2000 but Korey Coon of Illinois Wesleyan won that year in the men's division. The only other MIAA student athlete I could find who was ever nominated for the award was Jeff Bell of Olivet in 1999.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 06, 2007, 03:44:23 pm
Thanks OK:  I sort of remembered Aaron being nominated, but wasn't 100 % sure.  Either way it is a great award, going to a very deserving person.  Hopefully Lisa will miss the award ceremony in Salem because she has more important things to do. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 06, 2007, 04:33:30 pm
Lisa  ;) le for President! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 06, 2007, 04:51:35 pm
Lisa  ;) le for President! ;)

That might be the :D est post in D3 hoops history but it's still worthy of + k. ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 06, 2007, 05:21:18 pm
Lisa  ;) le for President! ;)

took me a minute, but +k
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 06, 2007, 09:47:19 pm
Lisa  ;) le for President! ;)

That might be the :D est post in D3 hoops history but it's still worthy of + k. ::)

 :D is goudaknight's middle name.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 06, 2007, 10:13:47 pm
Lisa  ;) le for President! ;)

That might be the :D est post in D3 hoops history but it's still worthy of + k. ::)

 :D is goudaknight's middle name.

Only a Frisian would try and Sneek that comment past OldKnight. ::)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: strikingviking on March 06, 2007, 11:35:38 pm
Congrats to Calvin on a great year!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 07, 2007, 07:49:01 pm
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 07, 2007, 08:23:39 pm
Perhaps most of them are now focused on the Hope men's team.  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 07, 2007, 09:43:58 pm
Lisa  ;) le for President! ;)

That might be the :D est post in D3 hoops history but it's still worthy of + k. ::)

 :D is goudaknight's middle name.

Only a Frisian would try and Sneek that comment past OldKnight. ::)

I'm gonna groan-again
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 07, 2007, 11:12:10 pm
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???

Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 07, 2007, 11:14:23 pm
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???

Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)

We get a little queasy when FDF slips on the brass knuckles... ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WLCALUM83 on March 08, 2007, 06:55:59 am
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???

Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)

Perhaps after the 2 men's teams met 5 times in the same season, could it be many of you feel "rivalried-out" (at least for this season?) :D (ba dumm bumm!)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 08, 2007, 08:28:59 am
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???

Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)

Why murder someone already in the process of committing suicide? ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: atn alum on March 08, 2007, 12:32:24 pm
Sorry to interrupt the fun chatter...

If you can't make it on Friday or Saturday, and have any trouble getting Calvin's audio feed, please tune in to us:

We'll have all 3 games
http://www.d3hoops.com/audio

* Calvin vs Southern Maine
* Emmanuel vs DePauw
* Saturday's sectional final

Coverage on Friday starts at 5:15pm, Saturday at 6:45 ET

Feel free to e-mail us at cgbears2006@aol.com

and if you're at the game, feel free to say hello. Enjoy Boston!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: strikingviking on March 08, 2007, 01:07:45 pm
Best of luck to John Ross and his Calvin women!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2007, 04:32:39 pm
Best of luck to John Ross and his Calvin women!!!

Good luck to the basketball team too!    :P
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on March 08, 2007, 04:34:30 pm
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???

Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)

We get a little queasy when FDF slips on the brass knuckles... ;)

That's strange - most people get quesy when I slip on the orange shorts  :-[
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 08, 2007, 04:42:09 pm
FDF: Don't stop now; you're on a roll. 8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 08, 2007, 10:42:20 pm
Best of luck to lady Knights, keep the feel good story going,

Its been proven it can be done. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 09, 2007, 08:49:13 am
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???


Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)

We get a little queasy when FDF slips on the brass knuckles... ;)

That's strange - most people get quesy when I slip on the orange shorts  :-[
Not to mention when they're slipping off... :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 09, 2007, 11:14:57 am
Gosh; one sure doesn't see many posts from Hope fans in here lately.  Go figure!!! :) ;) :D ;D ???


Shockingly, the absense of Calvin posters on the men's board is also noted! ;)

We get a little queasy when FDF slips on the brass knuckles... ;)

That's strange - most people get quesy when I slip on the orange shorts  :-[
Not to mention when they're slipping off... :o

ewwwwwww...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 12:23:20 pm
The MIAA website has the wrong time posted for the Calvin game tonight.  I have looked for a live stat or scoreboard for the game tonight, and do not find one.   I think Calvin is really going to have their hands full tonight.  A key to this weekend is going to be if Calvin can protect the ball, and rest Lisa periodically.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 09, 2007, 01:19:57 pm
The MIAA website has the wrong time posted for the Calvin game tonight.  I have looked for a live stat or scoreboard for the game tonight, and do not find one.   I think Calvin is really going to have their hands full tonight.  A key to this weekend is going to be if Calvin can protect the ball, and rest Lisa periodically.

The Calvin website has the Lady Knights playing in the first game set for 5:30 while the MIAA site has them playing the second game. I assume that Calvin's listing is the correct one.

Just out of curiosity I checked out Southern Maine's season statistics and I also looked at the box score of last season's championship game against Hope. Based on the box score it looks to me that Hope primarily won the game on the boards because the biggest disparity in the box is that statistic. Hope won the boards 52-38 while most other stats in the box were reasonably close. Hope did shoot a little better  (37% to 33%) but both teams made three shots from beyond the arc so it doesn't look like the shooting was the decisive factor.

This year's team is led in scoring by Marble at 22.8 and Kent at 10.8. Hope limited Marble to 8 points last year, but she had 15 boards so it appears that how well or poorly Calvin handles her may be a determining factor. Marble is listed as only 5'9" so I assume she is very athletic and aggressive. Last year's Huskies' team was led in scoring against Hope by Myles (23) and Frost (13) but neither appear on this year's roster. However Kent is a new addition--and apparently a good one--because she has made 53 shots from beyond the arc on very impressive 45% shooting from that range. Obviously she is a dangerous player.

I found it interesting that in last year's championship game only one non-starter played more than 3 minutes for Southern Maine so unless they've improved their bench it appears the Huskies aren't deep--especially when you realize that two important scorers from last year's championship are no longer playing for the Huskies. Hopefully foul trouble and/or fatigue will be an issue for them. If the Lady Knights can stay within striking distance the last 5 minutes they would seem to have a chance to win.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on March 09, 2007, 01:36:56 pm
It's 5:30 p.m.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: feces monkey on March 09, 2007, 01:40:28 pm
http://sports.mainetoday.com/college/basketball-women/070309usm.html

FYI...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 05:47:58 pm
Calvin 15
S. Maine 11
14:00 1st half
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 05:49:12 pm
Marble is everything they said she was.  Hope held her to 8 points last year.  Calvin hasn't slowed her down much.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 05:55:40 pm
Calvin 19
So. Maine  18

8:05 1st half
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 05:58:33 pm
The turnovers are a big concern.  Calvin has to make each possesion count.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:01:25 pm
26-18 Calvin up.  Marble is out
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 06:05:16 pm
Calvin 31
So. Maine 20
2:00 1st
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:05:38 pm
Calvin 31 to 20.  No lead would be large enough.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:10:13 pm
Calvin 33   to 24  at the half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 09, 2007, 06:13:03 pm
From Mark Simon's broadcast on d3hoops it sounds like Southern Maine is struggling with Calvin's size and Calvin is struggling to guard Marble.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:33:15 pm
Not good 3 fouls on Winkle.  They still haven't figured out how to stop Marble.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:39:33 pm
If Calvin could take advantage of the SMU turnovers they would be in much better shape.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:40:41 pm
Marble with 25 points, and Calvin turns it over.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 06:41:25 pm
It's tied up....  44-44
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:41:40 pm
Tied at 44.  2 quick 3's, and all Calvin can do is turnovers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:44:46 pm
SMU 11 straight points.  Where is Winkle?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 06:46:16 pm
Uh oh... Winkle #4
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:46:40 pm
Winkle back to the bench with 4 fouls.  this doesn't look good.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 06:48:15 pm
big shot for Calvin.... down 1
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:51:29 pm
Calvin down by 2.  4 minutes to go.  thank goodness Van Eck came to play.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:54:11 pm
53-53 and a turnover.  Calvin just can't get any distance on SMU.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:56:53 pm
56-54  Calvin by 2.  Winkle back in.  Really need several defensive stops.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 06:59:46 pm
Winkle out with 1 min. 30 to go.  Darn :)  Calvin up by 2
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 07:00:14 pm
Calvin better hope for no overtime
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:01:07 pm
Marble 34 points.  31 seconds left
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:02:56 pm
Not the way I really wanted to see this game go.
Van Eck foul.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:04:18 pm
Marble misses 2 ft's 
Zimmerman to the line  Calvin by 3
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:04:51 pm
6.8 seconds.  Partridge to the line.
We need this.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:05:55 pm
60 - 56 6.8 seconds left.  Really could have used the first ft by Partridge.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:07:05 pm
Calvin wins.  On to the elite 8 ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:08:14 pm
Great win for the Knights.  Especially with Lisa in foul trouble much of the 2nd half.
It doesn't get much better than this.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 09, 2007, 07:12:50 pm
For much of the second half, with Winkle on the bench, Calvin was missing three of their top three scorers. Freshman Brook VanEck was the Knight's scoring leader for this game. Sounds like she had some power post moves. Coach Ross called it probably the best game of her life.

Lisa Winkle with another double-double, 13 points and 13 rebounds.

Amazing performance by Ashley Marble (sp?), eh?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 09, 2007, 07:19:04 pm
VanEck came up huge down the stetch for Calvin. She's terribly undersized for the college game but she's fearless. I saw her play many times in high school and she was always a clutch player.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 09, 2007, 07:24:07 pm
Coach Ross took responsibility for S. Maine's big run at the start of the second half. At half time Ross told them to double Marble whenever possible, and that resulted in several other players scoring lots of points, fast. Then they stopped doubling and SM's run slowed.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 07:30:52 pm
I thought those were interesting comments.  Good idea for the coach to take the blame for some lapses.  He really has done a good job with this team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: usmhoops1 on March 09, 2007, 08:17:17 pm
Congrats to Calvin.  I will miss not seeing our Huskies in Springfield, but Calvin was the better team today. Good luck tomorrow vs either Depauw or Emmanual.  Enjoy Boston. Some great restaurants and sites to see.  Probably a few Red Sox fans around too !!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on March 09, 2007, 08:42:58 pm
Calvin wins.  On to the elite 8 ;D

If Calvin gets through the round of 8 will there be enough time for the two bad knees to heal?  Will Harris and/or Brummel be back of the semis?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 09, 2007, 08:49:56 pm
Congratulations coach John Ross and the Lady Knights.  A very classy program!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: doc on March 09, 2007, 08:59:16 pm
Calvin wins.  On to the elite 8 ;D

If Calvin gets through the round of 8 will there be enough time for the two bad knees to heal?  Will Harris and/or Brummel be back of the semis?

Everything I've heard and read calls the MCL injuries to both of them "season ending."
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 09, 2007, 09:02:36 pm
Looks like Calvin is going to get Dep tomorrow.  They are really handling Emmanuel easily.  I remember last year Dep gave Hope a run, but that game was in IN.  The Hope fans there were not at all impressed with the fans, and students.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 09, 2007, 09:52:21 pm
Looks like Calvin is going to get Dep tomorrow.  They are really handling Emmanuel easily.  I remember last year Dep gave Hope a run, but that game was in IN.  The Hope fans there were not at all impressed with the fans, and students.

That is a bit of an understatement as I recall.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 09, 2007, 10:08:50 pm
DePauw will be Calvin's toughest challenge to date, according to Massey--who also says that with Howard Payne out, DePauw is the highest-rated remaning team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 09, 2007, 10:26:08 pm
As we've seen so far in this tournament, I think we can just throw out all the rankings/ratings.  Anyone can in this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: atn alum on March 10, 2007, 12:59:57 am
hey folks

thanks for listening to our broadcast...getting a kick out of reading the updates...

enjoy the sectional title game. DePauw reminds me a lot of Hope '06, from the 2 games i saw of them
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 10, 2007, 08:43:01 am
hey folks

thanks for listening to our broadcast...getting a kick out of reading the updates...

enjoy the sectional title game. DePauw reminds me a lot of Hope '06, from the 2 games i saw of them

A big thanks and tip of the hat to everyone at d3hoops for the all the broadcasts being provided. All the announcers I've listened to have done an excellent job and have conveyed the excitement of the games to the listener very well. I'm really impressed.

It's my "hope" that DePauw reminding you of Hope '06 doesn't extend to the final result of tonight's game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 10, 2007, 10:14:08 am
No doubt Calvin is going to have to be firing on all cylinders tonight to have much of a chance.  Spreading the scoring around has worked well, and especially since the bench is really stepping up.  My biggest worry is still the tendency to have turnovers.  I think Calvin can beat Depauw, but only if they play their best 40 minutes of bball.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on March 10, 2007, 11:14:20 am
No doubt Calvin is going to have to be firing on all cylinders tonight to have much of a chance.  Spreading the scoring around has worked well, and especially since the bench is really stepping up.  My biggest worry is still the tendency to have turnovers.  I think Calvin can beat Depauw, but only if they play their best 40 minutes of bball.

A look at the stat sheets for Depauw support realist's statements. Depauw did to Emmanauel what the Tigers have been doing to opponents all year--outshooting their opponents from the floor and hammering them on the boards. Depauw's combined season statistics show they have shot quite a bit better than their opponents (47% to 37%) and clobbered the opposition by 11 (40 to 29) in rebounding. Those are pretty impressive numbers. Depauw also distributes their minutes all around with an amazing 11 players averaging at least 11 minutes of PT per game (and 8 with at least 15) so don't look for Calvin to tire them out tonight. Like Calvin, Depauw spreads around the scoring with Liz Bondi being Depauw's only double figure scorer at 15.3. In many ways they mirror Calvin's team--a deep team that outshoots and outrebounds their opponent--but with more impressive numbers than Calvin. Calvin also outshot their opponents by quite a bit (45.7% to 34.9%) but didn't outrebound their opponents like Depauw with the Lady Knights gathering only 3 more per game than their opposition. Surprisingly, these two teams had no common opponents this year so it's hard to be sure if Depauw is really a better rebounding team than Calvin or if the Tigers played a weaker schedule. I did see that in last year's tournament game against Hope, the Lady Dutch outrebounded Depauw by a significant margin (52-34) so maybe Depauw didn't see as many good teams as Calvin did this year (maybe a Hope poster who saw last year's game can weigh in). But all in all, it seems the Lady Knights have their work cut out for them. Unfortunately, I'll be gone tonight without internet access and won't get back until very late so I won't be able to follow what's happening. I'm relying on others to give me their take on the game which I'll read later.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 10, 2007, 06:55:57 pm
Is there a live scoreboard for this game?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: roaring0506 on March 10, 2007, 06:58:51 pm
wasn't yesterday.. so I would assume no.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 10, 2007, 07:35:56 pm
Depauw up 28-20 at the half.  Winkle has 80% of the Knights point total.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: northb on March 10, 2007, 08:16:51 pm
Slipping away from Calvin 12-0 run for Depauw, up by 18 with 6:45 to go
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: tniem on March 10, 2007, 09:46:54 pm
Congrats to the Lady Knights.  A really good year for them!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 11, 2007, 12:41:26 am
Yes, indeed.  A great year for the women.  They did everything anyone could have expected, and frankly even more.  Losing so much firepower to knee problems at the worst time of the year hurts.  With the way everything was going, and has turned out it could well have been there year.  I don't think we have heard the last from these ladies, but it will be tough to replace a super star like Lisa.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 11, 2007, 06:12:05 pm
Congratulations to the Knights on another successful season.  And special recognition to coach John Ross, who has now compiled a record of 99-17 (85.3%) in the four years he has coached at Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on March 14, 2007, 07:58:31 am
3 MIAA players on D3hoops.com All-region teams

http://d3hoops.com/all-region/07/glakewom.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 14, 2007, 11:02:14 am
3 MIAA players on D3hoops.com All-region teams

http://d3hoops.com/all-region/07/glakewom.htm

And a coach......


Congratulations to John Ross and Lisa Winkle.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 14, 2007, 10:19:20 pm
Congratulations to Calvin College for placing two players on DIII All-America teams, Lisa Winkle and Marcia Harris.  Both, very well deserved recognitions.  And, a special tribute to coach John Ross for being named coach of the year!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on March 14, 2007, 10:39:51 pm
Congratulations to Calvin College for placing two players on DIII All-America teams, Lisa Winkle and Marcia Harris.  Both, very well deserved recognitions.  And, a special tribute to coach John Ross for being named coach of the year!

I know it's technically "all-region" but they're "all-america" to me.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on March 16, 2007, 07:57:52 am
From the Holland Sentinel this morning:

Referee to work first Final Four
Brad Duistermars gets call for NCAA Division III women's hoops tourney

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/031607/localsports_20070316038.shtml

Didn't see Brad work in any games during the season, but he did ref one game at Hope during the MIAA tourney.  Very nice for the former Holland Christian and Hope player.  Too bad neither Hope nor Calvin could keep winning and join him there.   :-\
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on March 17, 2007, 04:57:47 pm
DePauw just beat Wash U 55-52 to win the National Championship.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 18, 2007, 02:42:03 pm
It is interesting that Depauw wins the women's title this year.  It is sort of bitter sweet in a way.  One can't help but wonder if this would have been Calvin's year had it not been for the season ending injures of Harrris and Brummel.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 18, 2007, 05:12:35 pm
I thought the same thing -- that Calvin at full strength could probably have beat DePauw. Can't be too sad about another elite-8 finish, though. The playoff run showed a lot of determination.

Next year the Knights will obviously miss Lisa Winkle, but if Harris and Brummel come back full strength, I'd think the Knights should be at least as strong as this year's elite-8 tournament edition. Especially with the year of experience for this year's crop of freshmen.

N.B. Harris and Brummel have both had their surgeries now.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Dark Knight on March 18, 2007, 05:16:25 pm
Congrats to Lisa Winkle for making d3hoops.com's 3rd-team All American list.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on March 19, 2007, 03:16:10 pm
Lisa sure has deserved all the honors that have come her way.  It would be hard to find a better person, student, and athlete.  I sort of assume she isn't done yet, and we will see her name regarding the track team this spring. :)  It will be interesting to see how things shake out for the team next fall.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bob MacKenzie on March 19, 2007, 03:59:58 pm
It is interesting that Depauw wins the women's title this year.  It is sort of bitter sweet in a way.  One can't help but wonder if this would have been Calvin's year had it not been for the season ending injures of Harrris and Brummel.

2006 Hope beats Depauw in regional final and goes on to win championship
2007 Depauw beats Calvin in regional final and goes on to win championship
2008 Calvin beats....? 

If they get there, it won't be a long commute for Calvin fans (although still longer than for Hope fans).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: goodknight on March 20, 2007, 09:51:03 am
It is interesting that Depauw wins the women's title this year.  It is sort of bitter sweet in a way.  One can't help but wonder if this would have been Calvin's year had it not been for the season ending injures of Harrris and Brummel.

2006 Hope beats Depauw in regional final and goes on to win championship
2007 Depauw beats Calvin in regional final and goes on to win championship
2008 Calvin beats....? 

If they get there, it won't be a long commute for Calvin fans (although still longer than for Hope fans).

Bobby:  We've missed ye!
Welcome back to the board -- and just in time for the long off-season lull. ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bob MacKenzie on March 20, 2007, 12:50:52 pm
Quote from: goodknight link=topic=4515.msg701159#msg701159
[/quote

Bobby:  We've missed ye!
Welcome back to the board -- and just in time for the long off-season lull. ???

I've been lurking around, GK.  Just haven't had much intelligent to add from 800 miles away.  (not that that seems to always be a requirement) ::)

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: almcguirejr on August 23, 2007, 02:09:12 pm
Lisa Winkle is one of the athletes featured in Sports Illustrated's "Faces in the Crowd" in the 8/27/07 issue.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on August 23, 2007, 02:34:33 pm
Lisa Winkle is one of the athletes featured in Sports Illustrated's "Faces in the Crowd" in the 8/27/07 issue.

That's awesome!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on September 10, 2007, 02:33:23 pm
Word on the men's discussion board is that Carrie Snikkers has enrolled at Hope (from Unity Christian).  She's still listed on the Oakland roster for 07-08, but apparently decided to come to Hope instead.  A 6'3" freshman center  - who was the Class B player of the year for 06.  If this is true, she would be a great addition for the Flying Dutch
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on September 10, 2007, 06:51:21 pm
Word on the men's discussion board is that Carrie Snikkers has enrolled at Hope (from Unity Christian).  She's still listed on the Oakland roster for 07-08, but apparently decided to come to Hope instead.  A 6'3" freshman center  - who was the Class B player of the year for 06.  If this is true, she would be a great addition for the Flying Dutch

She's an extraordinary talent and if she stays 4 years at Hope the Lady Dutch are all but certain to reach at least one Final Four (and likely more) during her time in Holland. In fact I'll go further than that and predict at least one more championship banner in Holland if she plays four years for Hope. She would mean as much to Hope's women's basketball of this generation as Mark Veenstra did for Calvin's men's teams of the 70's. That would be quite ironic considering both graduated from the same high school.

P.S.  I find it hard to believe she will play four years at the D3 level.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on September 11, 2007, 01:05:42 pm
Big MIAA volleyball match-up tonight. 

Calvin v. Adrian at Calvin at 6:30 p.m.  An Adrian win would be huge for the Bulldogs.  I see the Knights ripe for the fall.  They have huge games this weekend in Ohio and could be over-looking tonight's MIAA match-up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on September 11, 2007, 01:16:35 pm
I was just told that another snikkers, Carrie, is enrolled at Hope as well. Didn't like Oakland at all and will play for the Dutch!

So here's a question.  I think Carrie Snikkers was runner-up for the Michigan Miss Bball award last year.  How many (let's say top 3 finishers) Mr. (or Miss) Bball's have played in the MIAA before?  I don't know the answer....just wondering if there were any others?

The Oakland website says she was runner-up for Miss Basketball. Of course, the Miss Basketball voting is  more sketchy, uninformed and political than even the Mr. Basketball voting, so who knows what that position means, excactly.

Hope's loaded.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on September 11, 2007, 09:14:04 pm

She's an extraordinary talent and if she stays 4 years at Hope the Lady Dutch are all but certain to reach at least one Final Four (and likely more) during her time in Holland. In fact I'll go further than that and predict at least one more championship banner in Holland if she plays four years for Hope. She would mean as much to Hope's women's basketball of this generation as Mark Veenstra did for Calvin's men's teams of the 70's. That would be quite ironic considering both graduated from the same high school.

P.S.  I find it hard to believe she will play four years at the D3 level.

Pretty bold considering how hard it is to get to a final four. :D  She should be a wonderfull player for Hope........but like you I'd be surprised if she finished at Hope.  I'm guessing her late decision to leave Oakland left her with only D3 as a true option.  I've personally never heard of a player leaving before even one day of classes.  Kind of strange.

As far as her impact on the team though, she simply replaces Ellen Wood, joining Lindsay Lange and the promising Emily O'Hare on the baseline.  So really Hope goes back to having a deep front line, when they wouldn't have had one this year.  From what I've heard though her talent seems to be above what you'd expect at the D3 level.  6-3 is very tall for this level.

Don't forget Hope graduated four very good Seniors in Wood, Jurik, Bossard and Henderson, and will graduate Lange, Warsen and Boles this year.  Thats alot of really good players leaving the program in a short period of time.


But hey, it would be awesome to host a couple late March games in DeVos.


PS  I can't believe Morehouse is starting his 12th season at Hope.  wow, do I feel up there in age. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Dark Knight on September 11, 2007, 09:53:14 pm
Big MIAA volleyball match-up tonight. 

Calvin v. Adrian at Calvin at 6:30 p.m.  An Adrian win would be huge for the Bulldogs.  I see the Knights ripe for the fall.  They have huge games this weekend in Ohio and could be over-looking tonight's MIAA match-up.

Well, the Knights do have two huge matches coming up against #18 Ohio Northern and #1 Wittenberg this weekend, but that didn't slow them down today. They handled previously-unbeaten-in-the-conference Adrian easily. Last year's stars are taking up where they left off last fall, and freshman Kim Wigboldy had 10 kills.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Preto on September 11, 2007, 10:03:00 pm
6   Katie Zondervan   Sr.   S   5-6   Lakewood, CA/Valley Christian
7   Kayla Hollenbeck   Fr.   MH   6-1   Hudsonville/Hudsonville
8   Jessica Garlick   Jr.   S/RS   5-11   Portage/Kalamazoo Christian
9   Kelsey Sears   So.   DS/L   5-6   Traverse City/Traverse City West
10   Rachel DeYoung   So.   OH   5-10   Hudsonville/Unity Christian
11   Katie Corbett   So.   OH/DS   5-8   St. Joseph/Stevensville-Lakeshore
12   Carolyn Nelson   Fr.   S   5-9   Milan/Milan
13   Kristen Kalb   Sr.   OH   5-9   Stow, OH/Stow-Munroe Falls
14   Kim Wigboldy   Fr.   OH   5-9   Scottsdale, AZ/Valley Christian
17   Molly Krikke   Sr.   MH   5-11   Greenwich, OH/South Central
18   Sara Kramer   So.   OH   5-11   Dyer, IN/Illiana Christian
20   Sarah Ernst   Sr.   DS/OH   5-8   Fort Wayne, IN/Concordia Lutheran
21   Lauren DeGroot   Jr.   L/S   5-6   Tulare, CA/Central Valley Christian

Only five of thirteen from Michigan.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on September 12, 2007, 02:21:16 pm
SAC:

I think Hope is even stronger this year than you suggest.

Henderson has another year of eligibility due to a season missed injured two years ago and is back as a fifth year senior.  So the only players in Morehouse's ten player rotation that need to be replaced are Jurik and Woods.

I hear that three of last years sophmores are not coming back this year, but Kopke and Knox are playing.  Kopke was Henderson's backup. Knox is 6-2 and in a reserve role demostrated she was better than most of the posts in the MIAA.  It would appear that "going big" (Lange is 6-2 and O'Hare 6-0) is a real option this year - especially if either Warsen or O'Hare is comfortable at the 3 position.

There will be several new faces on the bench (3 graduations + 3 non-returners), but the Dutch with the addition of Snikkers and nine returning players with significant playing time are set up for a great season.  I don't see a drop off in the 08-09 season either in spite of the four graduations this year.

My schedule is cleared November through March.

Calvin - which had the advantage of playing a big line up last year - appears to be at a real disadvantage.  Winkle graduated and the rumor is Willet is studying off campus and unavailable for the season.  Harris is coming off a very serious knee injury and the reserve front line players are very inexperienced.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on September 12, 2007, 04:43:12 pm
I'm certainly no expert on the women's team, thanks for the headsup on Henderson.  I kinda thought that but thought it wise to let someone else correct that.

So indeed, Hope is loaded.  :D ;)
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 14, 2007, 09:02:22 pm
Friday & Saturday, September 14-15
Adrian, Alma, Calvin and Hope at "Border Battle"
hosted by Wittenberg. Tournament Schedule

Saturday, September 15
Albion at Olivet, 11 a.m.
Kalamazoo at Tri-State, 1 p.m.

The MIAA schools in Ohio are in for a battle. 

Friday, Sept. 14

Baldwin-Wallace def. Alma
3-1 (30-28, 30-28, 27-30, 30-22)   

Ohio Northern #18 def. Calvin #10 . . . ouch
3-0 (30-28, 30-23, 30-23)

Wittenberg #1 def. Adrian
(30-15, 30-18, 30-18)   

Hope def. Mount St. Joseph
3-1 (27-30, 24-30, 30-19, 20-30)

Ohio Northern def. Alma
3-0 (30-18, 31-29, 30-27)   

Calvin def. Baldwin-Wallace
3-0 (30-24, 30-18, 30-20)

Wittenberg vs. Hope   

Mount St. Joseph vs. Adrian

Saturday, Sept. 15

Ohio Northern vs. Hope   

Baldwin-Wallace vs. Adrian

Wittenberg vs. Alma   

Mount St. Joseph vs. Calvin

Baldwin-Wallace vs. Hope   

Ohio Northern vs. Adrian

Wittenberg vs. Calvin   

Mount St. Joseph vs. Alma
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Cowman on September 15, 2007, 12:21:08 am
hope takes #1 ranked witt to 5 games. nice.
lets hope the knights can pull off the upset after being upset friday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowman on September 15, 2007, 12:26:32 am
SAC:

I hear that three of last years sophmores are not coming back this year, but Kopke and Knox are playing.  Kopke was Henderson's backup. Knox is 6-2 and in a reserve role demostrated she was better than most of the posts in the MIAA.  It would appear that "going big" (Lange is 6-2 and O'Hare 6-0) is a real option this year - especially if either Warsen or O'Hare is comfortable at the 3 position.


Jennifer Bylsma (JV)
Brieann Bryant
Kate Reincke
Courtney Knox
Kimmy Gordon
Kaitlyn Kopke

So you're hearing that Bryant, Reincke and Gordon are gone?
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 16, 2007, 10:57:47 am
Hope v. Calvin, round 1 this Wednesday at Calvin College.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on September 17, 2007, 11:00:41 pm
So you're hearing that Bryant, Reincke and Gordon are gone?

Cowman:

That is what I hear based on who is attending open gyms.  Of course, it is possible that there could be a change of heart before official practice starts.

Pure speculation on my part, but I assume that  Hope's depth compared to other MIAA teams combined with relatively few key graduations the last couple years, has made it hard for some very fine players in the junior class to establish  a role and get playing time.
Title: Re: MIAA women's basketball
Post by: Oval on September 19, 2007, 12:16:40 pm
So you're hearing that Bryant, Reincke and Gordon are gone?

Cowman:

Pure speculation on my part, but I assume that  Hope's depth compared to other MIAA teams combined with relatively few key graduations the last couple years, has made it hard for some very fine players in the junior class to establish  a role and get playing time.

I hope some of them realize the value of being part of a great community.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:10:32 pm
Hope wins the first game.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:11:25 pm
GAME TWO

Hope 11
Calvin 15
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:12:30 pm
GAME TWO

Hope 11
Calvin 18

Deweerd's out
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:14:48 pm
GAME TWO

Hope 17
Calvin 19

Calvin timeout
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:18:11 pm
GAME TWO Hope 1 / Calvin 0

Hope 20
Calvin 25

Hope timeout

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:21:52 pm
GAME TWO Hope 1 / Calvin 0

Hope 24
Calvin 29
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:22:35 pm
GAME TWO Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 25
Calvin 30 game
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:25:38 pm
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 00
Calvin 00

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:27:50 pm
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 05
Calvin 01


Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:32:06 pm
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 08
Calvin 08

8-3 run by Calvin

timeout Hope

Hope playing three freshmen
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:34:21 pm
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 09
Calvin 11

11-4 Calvin run
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:41:49 pm
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 21
Calvin 22

7-4 run by Hope

Calvin timeout
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:46:34 pm
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 27
Calvin 28
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:47:12 pm
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 28
Calvin 28
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:47:39 pm
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 29
Calvin 28

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:48:33 pm
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 29
Calvin 29
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:49:03 pm
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 1

Hope 29
Calvin 30
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:49:54 pm
GAME THREE Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 29
Calvin 31 game

3-0 run by Calvin
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:50:57 pm
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 00
Calvin 00
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:57:31 pm
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 03
Calvin 08
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 07:59:21 pm
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 04
Calvin 11

Hope timeout
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 08:03:29 pm
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 10
Calvin 14

4-0 Hope run

Calvin timeout
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 08:08:41 pm
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 17
Calvin 21

Calvin timeout

Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 08:13:59 pm
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 2

Hope 22
Calvin 29
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on September 19, 2007, 08:14:49 pm
GAME FOUR Hope 1 / Calvin 3

Hope 23
Calvin 30 game match
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Cowman on September 22, 2007, 01:35:23 am
Friday. Sept 21

Saint Mary's d. Kalamazoo
28-30, 30-22, 20-30, 30-26, 15-10
Calvin d. Olivet
30-20, 32-30, 30-18

Linda Slagell Classic

Albion d. New York University
30-20, 30-21, 30-27



Saturday

Adrian at Alma, noon
Tri-State at Hope, 1 p.m.
Olivet at Hope, 3 p.m.

Looks like the Comets make a swing into west-Michigan for back-to-back matches.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Cowman on September 22, 2007, 01:39:33 am
6   Katie Zondervan   Sr.   S   5-6   Lakewood, CA/Valley Christian
7   Kayla Hollenbeck   Fr.   MH   6-1   Hudsonville/Hudsonville
8   Jessica Garlick   Jr.   S/RS   5-11   Portage/Kalamazoo Christian
9   Kelsey Sears   So.   DS/L   5-6   Traverse City/Traverse City West
10   Rachel DeYoung   So.   OH   5-10   Hudsonville/Unity Christian
11   Katie Corbett   So.   OH/DS   5-8   St. Joseph/Stevensville-Lakeshore
12   Carolyn Nelson   Fr.   S   5-9   Milan/Milan
13   Kristen Kalb   Sr.   OH   5-9   Stow, OH/Stow-Munroe Falls
14   Kim Wigboldy   Fr.   OH   5-9   Scottsdale, AZ/Valley Christian
17   Molly Krikke   Sr.   MH   5-11   Greenwich, OH/South Central
18   Sara Kramer   So.   OH   5-11   Dyer, IN/Illiana Christian
20   Sarah Ernst   Sr.   DS/OH   5-8   Fort Wayne, IN/Concordia Lutheran
21   Lauren DeGroot   Jr.   L/S   5-6   Tulare, CA/Central Valley Christian

Only five of thirteen from Michigan.

This speaks to Calvin's ability to recruit nation-wide.  If they ever get football they will be pulling players from all over the US.....unlike other MIAA schools.  Although in hoops that ability isn't helping much when Hope gets some of the best players in Michigan.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on September 24, 2007, 12:36:44 pm
This is from today's GR Press:

http://www.mlive.com/sports/grpress/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1190605502305270.xml&coll=6
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hoopdreams on September 26, 2007, 11:00:03 pm
to whom are you referring to as the best players in Michigan for Hope?  Carrie Snikkers?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowman on September 27, 2007, 06:00:32 pm
to whom are you referring to as the best players in Michigan for Hope?  Carrie Snikkers?

Snikkers, as well as some very strong men and other women.  IMO they're killing the rest of the MIAA in the recruiting 'wars'.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 11, 2007, 06:26:41 pm
"killing" would of course be a relative term.

The men had a fantastic 07 recruiting spring, but the previous few seasons have been somewhat thin.  However they are head and shoulders on paper the best class of the MIAA coming in this season.  I don't know if you could really say that about the last 2 or 3 years.

However Coach Morehouse has had two outstanding classes back to back from what I understand on the women's side.  The biggest difference for him is he's winning over kids who have scholarship offers at other levels.  Thats even excluding Snikkers, I'm not so sure a whole lot of recruiting wooed her away from Oakland.

Coach Mo reloads, Coach VW had to restock. ;) :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on October 12, 2007, 09:45:03 pm
2007 MIAA Volleyball Report

Calvin         12-0   
Hope            8-2     
Adrian          8-3   
Tri-State       7-5     
Albion           5-6     
Kalamazoo     4-7     
Saint Mary's   4-7     
Alma             2-10     
Olivet            2-12   
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on October 13, 2007, 10:24:30 pm
MIAA Volleyball
October 12-13, 2007

Albion College Quad
Albion d. Olivet 29-31, 30-21, 30-26, 27-30, 20-18 stats
Olivet d. Rochester 30-20, 30-19, 30-19
York (Pa.) d. Olivet 30-23, 28-30, 29-31, 30-22, 15-12
York (Pa.) d. Albion 30-20, 31-29, 23-30, 30-27
Albion d. Rochester 27-30, 30-17, 30-25, 30-28

Millikin Invitational
Calvin d. Franklin 30-26, 30-19, 30-21
Calvin d. Central, Iowa 30-23, 21-30, 30-22, 30-28
Saint Mary's d. Franklin 30-17, 30-22, 30-26
Saint Mary's d. Fontbonne 30-23, 37-35, 30-24
Calvin d. Millikin 30-26, 30-26, 28-30, 25-30, 15-8
Calvin d. Fontbonne 30-19, 30-14, 30-18

Saturday
Hope d. Kalamazoo 30-14, 30-10, 30-24 stats
Tri-State d. Adrian 30-25, 30-23, 30-25 stats
Tri-State d. Manchester 30-27, 30-21, 28-30, 30-22
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on October 13, 2007, 10:29:29 pm
Oct 13 MIAA Volleyball Report

Calvin         12-0   
Hope            9-2     
Adrian          8-4   
Tri-State       8-5     
Albion           5-6     
Kalamazoo     4-7     
Saint Mary's   4-8     
Alma             2-10     
Olivet            2-12   

Tuesday, October 16
Olivet at Adrian, 6:30 p.m.
Albion at Saint Mary's, 7 p.m.

Wednesday, October 17
Calvin at Hope, 6:30 p.m. the big match-up of the week
Tri-State at Alma, 7 p.m.

Thursday, October 18
Albion at Adrian, 6:30 p.m.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 16, 2007, 11:26:17 am
Hope has moved the VB game on Wednesday to the main floor, to accomodate as many fans as possible.  DIII record is 1,850, when when Roanoke (Va.) College beat Washington and Lee (Va.) University in Lexington, Va., in 2000.  Should be an awesome matchup, and it would be great to see the attendace record broken.

AND... you can get in for 1/2 price if you wear orange (I'll be watching for the Calvin Netherlanders to come in wearing orange, and then change their colors  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 17, 2007, 08:46:58 pm
Awesome volleyball match tonight - with Hope winning in 4.  Announced attendance was 1802, just short of a record, but a great crowd none the less.  And it was LOUD in there, almost as loud as a Hope/Calvin Mens bball game (might have been louder for a couple of points).
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on October 17, 2007, 11:10:41 pm
MIAA Volleyball
Oct 17

Hope d. Calvin
18-30, 30-26, 30-20, 30-27

Tri-State d. Alma
30-21, 30-21, 26-30, 30-28
Title: Re: MIAA Volleyball
Post by: Preto on October 17, 2007, 11:16:20 pm
MIAA Volleyball
Oct 17

Hope d. Calvin
18-30, 30-26, 30-20, 30-27

Tri-State d. Alma
30-21, 30-21, 26-30, 30-28

I'm very impressed to see the Dutch dig down and win three straight after being pounded in game 1.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 19, 2007, 07:25:50 pm
Since this has become the unofficial home of D3volleyball.com/MIAA  ;) :D

I thought I'd post the link to the photos from the game ....

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/vb/vbphotocalvin1.html
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on October 19, 2007, 10:30:26 pm
MIAA Volleyball
Saturday

St. Mary's at Kalamazoo, 11 a.m.
Alma at Adrian, noon
Hope at Tri-State, 1 p.m. (does the 9-5 Thunder take advantage of a possible let down and pull the big upset?)
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on October 20, 2007, 07:41:27 pm
MIAA Volleyball
Saturday, October 20

Kalamazoo d. St Mary's 30-28, 30-27, 30-27
Adrian d. Alma 30-28, 30-21, 30-27
Hope d. 3State 30-28, 30-17, 30-23 .... not even close
St Mary's d. Defiance 30-26, 30-22,30-25
Kalamazoo d. Defiance 30-23, 24-30, 30-18, 30-26

League Standings
   
Calvin      12   1
Hope      11   2   
Adrian       11   4      
Tri-State        9   6
Saint Mary's   5   8      
Albion        5   8   
Kalamazoo   5   8      
Alma        2   12      
Olivet        2   13   
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Oval on October 24, 2007, 08:23:00 am
Calvin (22-4) 3, Saint Mary's (12-16) 1
30-19, 26-30, 30-25, 30-21

Assuming Calvin does not win the MIAA tournament.

Do you think their habit of going to four or five games versus mediocre teams will hurt their chances for an at-large bid to the NCAAs?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 24, 2007, 01:59:22 pm
I see Hope's website has its women's BB teams posted but not their men's (ironically, Calvin has it reversed with only its men's team posted). The Lady Dutch varsity roster has 16 members, a number that seems ridiculous to me.  The varsity includes 6 freshmen, none of whom will apparently be spending time on the JV because they aren't listed there. The JV roster has 13 members.

The preseason poll has Hope ranked 12th and based on who they have coming back and the entering freshmen (including Michigan's Class B Player of the Year) this ranking is too low. If Hope stays healthy this year they've got the makings of a Final Four team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 24, 2007, 03:12:47 pm
16 players does make for a crowded bench.  However, Hope carried 16 year before last on their way to the national championship so it doesn't seem as if that number is a detriment to performance.  The team's four seniors are all projected starters and will leave big shoes to fill next year.  I suspect that Morehouse wants to develop his top recruits against his experienced players.   The competition at varsity practice is certainly tougher than the typical JV schedule.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 24, 2007, 03:52:41 pm
Hope sure has some height on that team.  Average height is 5-11 wiht 6 players between 6-0 and 6-3, and 4 more 5-10 or 5-11.
Title: Re: MIAA women's basketball
Post by: Oval on October 24, 2007, 09:51:13 pm

The preseason poll has Hope ranked 12th and based on who they have coming back and the entering freshmen (including Michigan's Class B Player of the Year) this ranking is too low. If Hope stays healthy this year they've got the makings of a Final Four team.

You speak the truth old one .... the Dutch are going to roll.  Do they have a strong non-MIAA schedule?  I'd like to see them match-up with GVSU.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 24, 2007, 09:57:16 pm
Do they have a strong non-MIAA schedule?  I'd like to see them match-up with GVSU.

The GVSU matchup would have been great in 06 with the D2 and D3 champs going at it.

Wheaton is on the Hope schedule, they always seem to be nationally ranked.  The only other non-con matchups that look intriguing to me would be a possible Ohio Northern game, and a possible game with Hanover.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/winter.html#wbball

The oddity will be the Dec 21 game with conference foe St. Mary's in the opening round of Hope's tournament.  That game will also double as an MIAA regular season contest. 

I believe their stiffest tests will come from the also nationally ranked and equally as good Calvin Knights, probably on 3 or 4 occassions.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 24, 2007, 10:16:27 pm
Not only are there 16 on the varsity for Hope, but TEN of them are Soph or Freshman.  And they still have 6 women with a ring.

Thats an odd comibition of youth and experience.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on October 25, 2007, 09:32:05 am
Not only are there 16 on the varsity for Hope, but TEN of them are Soph or Freshman.  And they still have 6 women with a ring.

Thats an odd comibition of youth and experience.

An odd combination, that shoudl yield some great learning for the younger ones.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 25, 2007, 02:45:59 pm
Oval:  Hope women usually have a pre-season scrimmage against GVSU.  While it is my understanding that the scimmage is held under game conditions and is competitive, I am not sure the primary objective is to win as opposed to trying out various combinations.

In terms of the non-conference schedule it looks like Ohio Northern may prove to be the toughest challenge.  They have a solid program and beat some good teams last year.  Based on recent performances Oberlin, Rochester and Defiance do not look like strong competors and Hanover is very weak.  (A review of last years results indicates that at the Hanover holiday tournament Hope beat Illinois College by 40 the day after IC beat Hanover).  Even Wheaton might not present the same level of competition as in the past since according to the CCIW board (and confirmed by a check of the Wheaton web site) All American center Jill Trenz is not playing and has transfered to another school.

So it looks like the strongest opponent will be Calvin assuming that Brummel and Harris are (hopefully) fully recovered and the Knight's  can adequately fill Winkle and Willet's (?) positions.  Albion and St. Mary's also have the ability and talent to provide a real contest, but the rest of the MIAA is relatively weak.

So it looks like Hope should win a lot of games and should probably be favored to win the conference.  However, a more difficult schedule would be better preparation for the post season.  But regional scheduling and the obligations of the conference schedule are hard to work around.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Cowman on October 25, 2007, 08:21:50 pm

I believe their stiffest tests will come from the also nationally ranked and equally as good Calvin Knights, probably on 3 or 4 occassions.

Oh my .... are you implying this season's Knights are on par with this season's Dutch?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on October 25, 2007, 08:25:35 pm
Not only are there 16 on the varsity for Hope, but TEN of them are Soph or Freshman.  And they still have 6 women with a ring.

Thats an odd comibition of youth and experience.

Very frightening.  I doubt Calvin will have a long unbeaten run in the Van Noord like Hope did in the DeVos.  Ross is going to have to do some creative recuriting in far away places to catch-up.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 26, 2007, 07:45:03 pm


Oh my .... are you implying this season's Knights are on par with this season's Dutch?

Well I'm hardly an expert on women's basketball (nor men's) but it seems both the Dutch and Knights lost fairly equal cogs in their machines.  Correct me if I'm wrong of course.  I thought Hope and Calvin were pretty much on equal terms last season, and I did actually manage to catch two games one at each gym, and each won on the others floor.  They didn't look very different to me.

I don't think a gap has opened between the two from last year to this year.  I fully expect the women's race to come down to Hope and Calvin.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on October 27, 2007, 12:22:43 am

Oh my .... are you implying this season's Knights are on par with this season's Dutch?

Well I'm hardly an expert on women's basketball (nor men's) but it seems both the Dutch and Knights lost fairly equal cogs in their machines.  Correct me if I'm wrong of course.  I thought Hope and Calvin were pretty much on equal terms last season, and I did actually manage to catch two games one at each gym, and each won on the other's floor.  They didn't look very different to me.

I don't think a gap has opened between the two from last year to this year.  I fully expect the women's race to come down to Hope and Calvin.

Winkle gone = huge gap.  Do you see anyone from last year's Hope team close to Winkle in terms of play and leadership?  Could be, but who?

That, along with a slow return from Calvin's injuries and a small recruiting class makes the gap even larger considering Hope's great recruiting class.  What is unknown is how many women dropped the sport at Hope or Calvin.  A few key Dutch losses could level the field a but I still see the 2007-2008 Hope squad on their way to the NCAA title, not just the MIAA title.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Bilk on October 27, 2007, 12:26:34 am
The Knights almost loose another one.  With this approach they go nowhere in the NCAAs, if they even get there.

Calvin 3, Kalamazoo 2 (30-20, 26-30, 27-30, 30-11, 15-10)

K'zoo is 5-10 in the MIAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 27, 2007, 08:30:38 am


I don't think a gap has opened between the two from last year to this year.  I fully expect the women's race to come down to Hope and Calvin.

I agree that this year's race comes down to Hope and Calvin but I also agree with Bilk that there is a gap that didn't exist last year. The two squads were essentially even last year but Calvin's loss of Winkle (who isn't really being replaced) combined with Hope's returning players and outstanding freshmen class puts the Lady Dutch in the driver's seat for the current season. Calvin is certainly good enough to beat Hope but over the course of a long season I expect Hope will have too many talented basketball players to not win the conference and make a deep run in the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on October 27, 2007, 08:51:48 am
i thiink it will come down to hope and calvin to  with both in the ncaa and maybe hope going to the final 4 
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Oval on October 27, 2007, 09:29:45 pm
The Knights almost loose another one.  With this approach they go nowhere in the NCAAs, if they even get there.

Calvin 3, Kalamazoo 2 (30-20, 26-30, 27-30, 30-11, 15-10)

K'zoo is 5-10 in the MIAA.

Someone woke-up for this match :

Saturday
Calvin d. Albion 30-21, 30-12, 30-7 ouch
Hope d. Kalamazoo 30-23, 30-12, 30-24
Tri-State d. Saint Mary's 30-26, 30-23, 27-30, 30-22
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 30, 2007, 10:15:10 am
http://blogs.hollandsentinel.com/dan/

Dan D'Addona of the Holland Sentinel has some good comments regarding Calvin's roster and the Knight's lack of size and shortage of experienced post players.  I think the conclusions he draws about the the difficulty this will cause matching up with the Dutch are correct.

Since most of the posters on this board seem to be most familar of with the Calvinist teams, we may be overlooking the Wesleyans :).  Last year Albion was very inconsistent, but played very good at times and won some big games.  They also have some size and experience.  Is this the year the Britons could break the Hope / Calvin duopoly?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 30, 2007, 03:19:39 pm
You can read about the Briton's here

http://www.albion.edu/sports/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2104&Itemid=933

They lost their leading scorer Jessica Babcock, but otherwise seem to be mostly intact from last season.

Lots of FR on the varsity.


By the way Hope has to replace Ellen Wood, her vocal leadership on the floor will be difficult to replace.  (if you saw the Hope women, you know what I mean )

Hope is going for its 10th consecutive 20 win season, that would be an outstanding accomplishment.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on October 30, 2007, 05:01:01 pm
Ellen will be hard to replace.  She worked hard throughout her career and really came into her own last year.

However, in Knox and / or Snikkers (maybe both if Morehouse wants to go really big) , Hope has legitimate canditates to fill that spot in the rotation - and that does not even include the freshman that are basically unknown commodities at this point.  (I am assuming that Hope remains with basically a ten player rotation and Lange starts at center).

The front line succession planning at Calvin does not seem as orderly.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on October 30, 2007, 05:24:09 pm
  Is this the year the Britons could break the Hope / Calvin duopoly?

No, Hope will win the conference this year, probably quite comfortably.



Hope is going for its 10th consecutive 20 win season, that would be an outstanding accomplishment.

20 wins is a given. The only question I have is "Can the Lady Dutch win 30?"

Ellen will be hard to replace.  She worked hard throughout her career and really came into her own last year.


I saw Ellen Wood play. She was a nice player who worked hard to become an effective post by the time she was a senior. I mean no disrepect to her when I say that she will not be hard to replace--at least not as far as her talent level is concerned. If you've never seen Snikkers play then let me tell you, there is no comparison in skill level between Wood and Snikkers. I seriously doubt that there is an entering female freshmen at the D3 level with her combination of athletic ability and size. She's not only 6'3", she's an outstanding passer and 3 point shooter. In fact, she is likely to lead Hope in 3 point per centage this year. Snikkers is also a presence on defense and has the best pair of hands of any female player I've ever seen. They're like velcro when she puts her mitts on the ball. Combined with an excellent and experienced supporting cast, and other talented freshmen on the roster, Hope is primed for a run that might not end until Hope finishes hosting the Final Four at DeVos on March 22, 2008. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on October 30, 2007, 05:54:14 pm
I love the confidence you have in the Dutch Oldknight, which just seems strange and weird and considerably wrong considering the side of the aisle your on. ;) :D

The MIAA has won 5 National Championships in basketball men's and women's,  all 5 have one thing in common.  Facing a close game along the way where the final score could have gone either way and history would be different.

1990     Hope women
  Hope 68, Wisc.-Oshkosh 67 (Regional) 
  Hope 85, Buena Vista, Iowa 79 (ot) (Quarterfinal)
  Hope 65, St. John Fisher, N.Y. 63 (National Championship )

1992    Alma women
  Alma 81, Luther, Iowa 80 (Semis) 
  Alma 79, Moravian, Pa. 75 (National Championship)

1992  Calvin men
 Calvin 91, Hope 88 (Second Round)
 Calvin 69, Gustavus-Adolphus, Minn. 68 (Sectional)

2000   Calvin men
 Calvin 92, Franklin 90 (ot) (Second Round)
 Calvin 79, Franklin & Marshall, Pa. 77 (Semis)
 Calvin 79, Wisc. -Eau Claire 74 (Championship game)

 2006  Hope women
  Hope 59, Scranton, Pa. 56 (Semi-Finals)

This also holds true for the other 5 men's squads who went to the final four except the 98 Hope men.  Albion 1978, Calvin 1990, Hope 1996, Calvin 2005 all faced close early round games they could have easily lost.

The list of razor close losses to knock an MIAA team out of the tournament is even longer.

Everything just has to go to right, to predict a National Championship.
 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 01, 2007, 12:03:28 am
Not that pre-season polls mean anything but I thought this was interesting.

http://www.wbca.org/DIIICoachesPoll.asp

The Dutch got a first place vote, but were still behind the Knights.


Oldknight do you have a vote in this poll. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on November 01, 2007, 10:15:29 am
Hope is announcing that tickets to the Women's Final Four will go on sale at DeVos Fieldhouse today! For those interested in beating the rush once Hope makes the Final Four your opportunity to get a ticket is today.

http://hope.edu/pr/athletics/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 01, 2007, 01:47:41 pm
No one posted it so here it is....


MIAA Women's Basketball Coaches Pre-Season Poll:
1. Hope (6) 10,
2. Calvin (3) 15,
3. Albion 23,
4. Saint Mary's 26,
 5. Adrian 41,
6. Alma 45,
7. Tri State 52 ,
8. Olivet 53,
9. Kalamazoo 59
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 01, 2007, 03:33:28 pm
http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/

women's preseason poll
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dballa on November 01, 2007, 03:41:48 pm
that's actually the men's, it's still showing the women's final poll from last year.  I'm sure it will be up soon though.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 01, 2007, 04:13:41 pm
speaking of skimming :-[
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dballa on November 01, 2007, 04:53:15 pm
Well now your link works as the women's poll has been released :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 01, 2007, 05:50:13 pm
The womens poll looks like the voters were pretty scattered with their views.  8 teams received a first place vote, including the team at #14.

Hope comes in at 4, Calvin at 9.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on November 03, 2007, 04:31:00 pm
GAME ONE Hope 0 / Calvin 1

Hope 22
Calvin 30
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on November 03, 2007, 04:49:16 pm
GAME TWO Hope 0 / Calvin 2

Hope 19
Calvin 30
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flea on November 03, 2007, 05:14:25 pm
GAME THREE Hope 0 / Calvin 3

Hope 23
Calvin 30

Calvin's off to the NCAAs.
Hope waits 'til Monday for an at-large bid.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 04, 2007, 08:39:21 pm
According to the Holland Sentinel today, Carrie Snikkers is projected to be either the 3rd team center or the second team forward.

The team may be good, but they can't be that loaded with that amount of talent.
Title: Re: MIAA women's basketball
Post by: Oval on November 04, 2007, 09:05:11 pm
According to the Holland Sentinel today, Carrie Snikkers is projected to be either the 3rd team center or the second team forward.

The team may be good, but they can't be that loaded with amount of talent.

3rd team center ..... 2nd team forward ..... it's nice the Sentinel has a sense of humor.  More like 2nd team all-MIAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 04, 2007, 11:19:11 pm
I don't even see this on the online Sentinel, is this in the actual paper version?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 05, 2007, 06:44:28 am
I don't even see this on the online Sentinel, is this in the actual paper version?

Sac:  Here's the link.

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/110407/hopetab_20071104116.shtml
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 05, 2007, 08:25:11 am
Not a surprise the Sentinel would predict that about Snikkers.  They are so clueless about the game that they've been talking about Jesse Reimink playing center this year, like he did last year   ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 05, 2007, 11:33:40 am
According to the Holland Sentinel today, Carrie Snikkers is projected to be either the 3rd team center or the second team forward.

The team may be good, but they can't be that loaded with amount of talent.

3rd team center ..... 2nd team forward ..... it's nice the Sentinel has a sense of humor.  More like 2nd team all-MIAA.

There are several reasons not to respond to speculation about the Dutch lineup and Snikkers role.

I have never seen Snikkers play.

I do not talk to Coach Morehouse on a regular basis.

On the few occasions we have spoken he did not ask my opinion.

I do not attend practice.

However, I have watched the team for a few years and do know it is not a star based.  The team wins by playing Morehouse's system.  The system employs a fast paced offense, an intense pressing defense and relys on a two unit rotation where everyone plays all out all the time.

It is not unusual for freshman to play or even start.  However, it would be almost unheard of for a freshman to supplant a proven upper classman.  The system does reward hard work and loyalty.  Often times good high school players develop into very good or great college players in the system.

Four of five starters return this year and Lange, a center, has played a key role the last two years.  I have a hard time imagining anyone replacing captains Warsen or Lange (positions 4 & 5) in the starting lineup this year.  Green - the 3 - brings such quickness, slashing ability, and defense that I think her role is secure.

Three players return to the second unit and Knox played some important minutes at center last year.  Dutch centers are required to play a rough and tumble post up role down low and run the court end to end.  Both Lange and Knox fit the prototype.  They are strong, can jump and have sprinters speed.  O'Hare returns in the 4 position, but would appear able to play at the 3 left open by Jurik's graduation if necessary. 

Given what I have read about Snikkers perimeter ability, it would seem that second unit forward is a very likely (and honorable) role.  Think about it, a 6', 6'2" and 6'3" second unit front line that could start for almost any D3 team in the country.  Other conference teams will never be able to rest their staters without the risk of being totally dominated on the boards.   Remember that this is a full two unit system and the second unit often plays almost as many minutes as the first unit.

Snikkers is not the first - or even the only current player - to pass up a DI, DII or NAIA scholarship to play for the Dutch.  Hope is a DIII team but plays on a different plain than 95% of their competition and it is a big step from Class B high school to their level. 

The Dutch seem to be enjoying an embarrassment of riches this year and a big reason for the depth is Morehouse's ability to retain players for four years.  I feel pretty safe in saying that we will not see anything done that will disrupt the chemistry that he has worked so hard to build.

So let's sit back and see what happens and avoid promoting one player (who has yet to play a college game) over the proven performers that have brought us this far.  Hopefully, the season will be as fun as we all assume.





Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 05, 2007, 11:45:50 am
What a hose job by the NCAA volleyball committee.  Hope does not get an invite to the trounament, despite having a fine 24-9 record, with 7 of those loses coming to tournament teams.  Here are the losses this team suffered this year

2 versus #11 Ohio Northern (one 3 game match, one 5 game match)
1 versus #1 Wittenburg (a 5 game match, the only time Witt 34-0 went to 5 games all year)
2 versus #16 Calvin (one 3 game, one 4 game, plus beat Calvin in 4 games)
1 versus Adrian (4 game match, also beat Adrian twice)
1 versus #9 UW Oshkosh (4 game match)
1 versus IWU (3 game match)
1 versus #8 Emory (3 game match , every game went past 30 points)



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 05, 2007, 01:26:39 pm
I mostly agree with WWWRHH's comments but will supplement them with a few of my own. I understand and agree with the philosophy that any college freshman, no matter how talented, be required to clearly earn their way into a starting position. This is especially true when, as noted, you are dealing with a team "with an embarrassment of riches." Hope is one of the best female D3 squads in the nation without Snikkers. Until Snikkers shows herself to be better than the player she supplants she should come off the bench. My problem with the brief mention appearing in the Sentinel is that to the casual observer Snikkers appears destined for little more than mop-up duty her first year.

I know other DI talents have wound playing at the D3 level (even at Hope :o)--but not a player of her talent. Usually a player who drops from DI to DIII is a more marginal DI talent than is Carrie. She was the No. 1 recruit at a DI institution and you don't go from that to an end-of-the-bencher at a  DIII school in the course of 6 months. I don't know what Morehouse has in mind in moving Snikkers along but my guess is that she will be a starter at some point in the season. She's just too talented to be an 8 minute per game player. Because she is a very good ball-handler and an excellent outside shooter, Morehouse does have the flexibility of playing Snikkers at more than one position. She may not start right away but if she doesn't play a lot right away, I will be amazed.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 05, 2007, 06:21:14 pm
Last season Fr. Philana Green spent the first half of the season coming off the bench.  By the  later half of the MIAA schedule she was starting ahead of Sr. Sarah Jurik.

The situation may or may not turn out to be similar this year, but at least the precedent has been set that its happened at Hope before.

I probably don't like all the hype thats hurled at Carrie Snikkers, I never like to see so much asked of Freshman.  I think Bria Ebels went through a similar set of expectations her Fr. year.   Its always a tougher transition to college ball than people realize.  But I'm pretty confident that Oldknight has seen Snikkers play aheck of alot more than me, so I'll defer to him on Snikkers' talent.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 05, 2007, 06:22:04 pm
Why is it every time I read the MIAA women's board lately, I get a craving for a candy bar?  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on November 06, 2007, 08:51:31 am
According to the Holland Sentinel today, Carrie Snikkers is projected to be either the 3rd team center or the second team forward.

The team may be good, but they can't be that loaded with amount of talent.

3rd team center ..... 2nd team forward ..... it's nice the Sentinel has a sense of humor.  More like 2nd team all-MIAA.

There are several reasons not to respond to speculation about the Dutch lineup and Snikkers role.


Very solid reasoning.  You're right, who knows how the newbies will do.
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on November 06, 2007, 08:56:41 am
What a hose job by the NCAA volleyball committee.  Hope does not get an invite to the trounament, despite having a fine 24-9 record, with 7 of those loses coming to tournament teams.  Here are the losses this team suffered this year

2 versus #11 Ohio Northern (one 3 game match, one 5 game match)
1 versus #1 Wittenburg (a 5 game match, the only time Witt 34-0 went to 5 games all year)
2 versus #16 Calvin (one 3 game, one 4 game, plus beat Calvin in 4 games)
1 versus Adrian (4 game match, also beat Adrian twice)
1 versus #9 UW Oshkosh (4 game match)
1 versus IWU (3 game match)
1 versus #8 Emory (3 game match , every game went past 30 points)


While it is a tough Regional, I'd like to see the unranked team's resumes.  Did Hope beat any ranked teams?

Nov. 8, quarterfinals
Washington #4 vs. Hanover, 1 p.m.
W-Oshkosh #9 vs. W-Platteville, 3:30 p.m.
W-La Crosse #17 vs. Calvin #16, 6 p.m.
Carroll vs. Carthage #6, 8:30 p.m.

Nov. 9, semifinals
Washington (Mo.)-Hanover winner vs. Wisconsin-Oshkosh-Wisconsin-Platteville
winner, 4:30 p.m.
Wisconsin-La Crosse-Calvin winner vs. Carroll (Wis.)-Carthage winner, 7 p.m.

Nov. 10, championship
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on November 06, 2007, 09:07:01 am
I probably don't like all the hype thats hurled at Carrie Snikkers, I never like to see so much asked of Freshman.  I think Bria Ebels went through a similar set of expectations her Fr. year.


What were Miss Ebels' high school credentials?
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 06, 2007, 09:17:53 am
While it is a tough Regional, I'd like to see the unranked team's resumes.  Did Hope beat any ranked teams?

Calvin was the only ranked team they beat.  They were also the only team all year to win two games against Wittenburg
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 06, 2007, 12:21:50 pm

What were Miss Ebels' high school credentials?

She wasn't in the running for Miss basketball, but I think most people expected her to do very well at Hope.

I don't think she was all-state, but she was all-area for the Sentinel, for what thats worth.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 06, 2007, 03:43:48 pm

What were Miss Ebels' high school credentials?

She wasn't in the running for Miss basketball, but I think most people expected her to do very well at Hope.

I don't think she was all-state, but she was all-area for the Sentinel, for what thats worth.

She also had collegiate coaches watching her prior to being in middle school.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gottaluvhoops on November 09, 2007, 12:02:30 pm
Can Hope run the table this year??
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on November 09, 2007, 01:39:43 pm
Calvin is the underdog here on out.  Tonight's game vs. the host school will be brutal.

Thursday, Nov. 8, quarterfinals
Washington #4 - 3 defeats Hanover - 0
(W) Oshkosh #9 - 3 defeats (W) Platteville - 2
Calvin #16 - 3 defeats (W) La Crosse #17 - 1 (26-30, 30-26, 30-20, 30-15)
Carthage #6 - 3 defeats Carroll - 0

Friday, Nov. 9, semifinals
Washington #4 - 3 defeats (W) Oshkosh #9 - 2
Carthage #6 - 3 defeats Calvin #16 - 0, (30-26, 30-23, 30-07) tough loss for the Knights and the MIAA

Saturday, Nov. 10, championship
Washington #4 versus Carthage #6
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hawk'ster on November 09, 2007, 01:42:07 pm
Can Hope run the table this year??

I would say they should run the MIAA table and could run the NCAA table.  Seems like Calvin's losses will make the MIAA road fairly easy for the Dutch.  Did any MIAA schools have a great recruiting year?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on November 09, 2007, 10:41:57 pm
Can Hope run the table this year??

I would say they should run the MIAA table and could run the NCAA table.  Seems like Calvin's losses will make the MIAA road fairly easy for the Dutch.  Did any MIAA schools have a great recruiting year?

You mean other than Hope (I hope)?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: brutus on November 10, 2007, 07:13:55 pm
Any update on the Calvin ACL's?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 10, 2007, 10:48:50 pm
Anyone at meet the Dutch this morning?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 11, 2007, 07:05:53 am
sac i was there the hope girls looked pretty good   they schould have a out stading year i think
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 11, 2007, 12:53:46 pm
To finish up our tracking of VB, Calvin lost in the second round of the NCAA

Carthage d. Calvin 30-26, 30-23, 30-7

30-7?  WOW!
Title: Re: MIAA volleyball
Post by: Trailer Dog on November 11, 2007, 05:51:02 pm
Thursday, Nov. 8, quarterfinals
Washington #4 - 3 defeats Hanover - 0
(W) Oshkosh #9 - 3 defeats (W) Platteville - 2
Calvin #16 - 3 defeats (W) La Crosse #17 - 1 (26-30, 30-26, 30-20, 30-15)
Carthage #6 - 3 defeats Carroll - 0

Friday, Nov. 9, semifinals
Washington #4 - 3 defeats (W) Oshkosh #9 - 2
Carthage #6 - 3 defeats Calvin #16 - 0, (30-26, 30-23, 30-07) tough loss for the Knights and the MIAA

Saturday, Nov. 10, championship
Washington #4 - 3 defeats Carthage #6 - 1
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 13, 2007, 06:45:39 pm
Hope's Jordan Boles is listed as an honorable mention Pre-season all-america by D3hoops.com

I'd link it but for some inexplicable reason, my right click won't work.  ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on November 14, 2007, 11:00:04 am
Hope's Jordan Boles is listed as an honorable mention Pre-season all-america by D3hoops.com

I'd link it but for some inexplicable reason, my right click won't work.  ???

Sounds painful!   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 14, 2007, 11:57:04 am
Hope's Jordan Boles is listed as an honorable mention Pre-season all-america by D3hoops.com

I'd link it but for some inexplicable reason, my right click won't work.  ???

Any chance you're coming to watch the Dutch on Friday and/or Saturday?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 14, 2007, 01:12:51 pm
Hope's Jordan Boles is listed as an honorable mention Pre-season all-america by D3hoops.com

I'd link it but for some inexplicable reason, my right click won't work.  ???

Any chance you're coming to watch the Dutch on Friday and/or Saturday?

Thursday is Thanksgiving in the Sac household, I have family hanging around this weekend it would be difficult to sneak away from the hard core games of  UNO.  The 7 year old wouldn't understand and I don't want her to call me chicken.

......and Saturday, well that should need no explanation. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on November 14, 2007, 02:23:02 pm
Hope's Jordan Boles is listed as an honorable mention Pre-season all-america by D3hoops.com

I'd link it but for some inexplicable reason, my right click won't work.  ???

Any chance you're coming to watch the Dutch on Friday and/or Saturday?

Thursday is Thanksgiving in the Sac household, I have family hanging around this weekend it would be difficult to sneak away from the hard core games of  UNO.  The 7 year old wouldn't understand and I don't want her to call me chicken.

......and Saturday, well that should need no explanation. ;)

After Thanksgiving shopping sales??? :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 14, 2007, 04:02:24 pm
sac it wont be the same with out you there 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on November 15, 2007, 02:53:32 pm
I was at "Meet The Dutch" and noticed Kaitlyn Kopke in a walking cast of some sort.  Anyone have the story on this?
I thought the girls looked pretty solid.  Last year I enjoyed watching Emily O'Hare and think she appears stronger and more confidant this year.  Looking forward to the weekend...we sat in our seats last weekend and I looked at my husband and said "welcome home".  :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on November 15, 2007, 04:05:12 pm
I was at "Meet The Dutch" and noticed Kaitlyn Kopke in a walking cast of some sort.  Anyone have the story on this?
I thought the girls looked pretty solid.  Last year I enjoyed watching Emily O'Hare and think she appears stronger and more confidant this year.  Looking forward to the weekend...we sat in our seats last weekend and I looked at my husband and said "welcome home".  :)

Oh my stars, I know the feeling!  Can't wait until tomorrow night, when we are finally "home" again too!  Missing Meet the Dutch/Dutchmen for the first time in about 12 years nearly killed me! :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 15, 2007, 04:20:53 pm
i know i can not wait till friday night to watch some good basketball game  kopke was waling  monday  but not so good  i think maybe play next weekend 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 16, 2007, 01:12:37 pm
From the article in the Sentinel (link below) sounds like the Lady Knights are going to have a tough time dealing with injuries to start the year

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/111607/localsports_20071116057.shtml
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 16, 2007, 10:23:11 pm
hope played good tonight a tough one saturday vs ohio northern i think
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 16, 2007, 11:07:56 pm
I was curious how Snickers would do in her first college game at Hope.  But she was not listed in the boxscore.  Anyone know why she did not play?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 16, 2007, 11:25:23 pm
Snikkers did play - she played with the second unit.  Something like 4 points and maybe about that many rebounds as well.  In my opinion, she looked more like a freshman than the rest of the freshman - but that might have been because of higher expectations.  Hope is an extremely deep team.

I think there is an issue with the scoreboard/stats board only handling 15 players, and Hope has 16.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 17, 2007, 09:36:41 pm
Looks like the Dutch absolutely womanhandled the Polar Bears today 89-61.

5 girls in double figures

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/1117onuw.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flea on November 17, 2007, 10:03:43 pm
Women's Basketball - MIAA's Weekend

Hope (#4) 93, Oberlin 44
Hope (#4) 89, (OH) Northern 61

Calvin (#9) 79, Mount St Joseph 41
Calvin (#9) 62, Illinois College 52

Albion 85, SUNY Brockport 76 (OT)
Albion 58, Muskingum 56

Trine 72, Rose-Hulman 52
Trine 74, Franklin 59

(VA) Wesleyan 62, Adrian 55
Adrian 68, Ursinus 66

Baldwin Wallace 60, Alma 52 (2OT)
Alma 62, Marian 59

Kalamazoo 83, Dominican 81 (OT)
Capital (#20) 75, Kalamazoo 49

Wheaton 75, St Mary's 56
St Mary's 83, Aurora 47

DePauw (#5) 96, Olivet 63
Washington (MO) (#6) 68, Olivet 38
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 19, 2007, 08:16:43 pm
Here's a unique stat about Hope's 89-61 victory over Ohio Northern.  The starters scored 25 points in total, and the bench scored the remaining 64 points.  Thus the bench outscored ONU, 64 - 61!

The 5 Hope starters played a total of 67 minutes, while the 11 players coming off the bench played 130 minutes (numbers rounded off, since the total is not 200), so the entire bench was more productive than the starters were for this game.

And you can't say that ONU put in their reserves early.  The five ONU starters totaled 117 minutes of the 201 total minutes (again rounded off).

I thought I should do a similar comparison with their first opponent, Oberlin.  Results were even more so tilted to the bench.  The 5 Hope starters played 61 minutes and scored 25 points, while the bench played 139 minutes and scored the remaining 65 points, outscoring the entire Oberlin team, 65 - 44.  This was accomplished by and large against the 5 Oberlin starters, who played 150 of their team's 200 minutes; these starters scored 40 of the team's 44 points.  Or you could say that the Hope bench outscored the Oberlin bench 65 - 4!

Appropriately, one of the Hope bench players, Emily O'Hare, was named to the all-tourney team.

In both games every Hope player scored.  In the first game every player got a rebound, while in the second game everyone got a rebound except for one person.

Now that's depth!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 19, 2007, 10:25:43 pm
Excellent stuff!  I can't remember seeing something like that.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 19, 2007, 10:40:38 pm
Here's a unique stat about Hope's 89-61 victory over Ohio Northern.  The starters scored 25 points in total, and the bench scored the remaining 64 points.  Thus the bench outscored ONU, 64 - 61!

The 5 Hope starters played a total of 67 minutes, while the 11 players coming off the bench played 130 minutes (numbers rounded off, since the total is not 200), so the entire bench was more productive than the starters were for this game.


 

I can't say I'm surprised. I think we're going to see more of this kind of bench output this year because 1) Hope's women won't have many close games and 2) Hope's bench is very talented.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 19, 2007, 11:43:44 pm
Here's a unique stat about Hope's 89-61 victory over Ohio Northern.  The starters scored 25 points in total, and the bench scored the remaining 64 points.  Thus the bench outscored ONU, 64 - 61!

The 5 Hope starters played a total of 67 minutes, while the 11 players coming off the bench played 130 minutes (numbers rounded off, since the total is not 200), so the entire bench was more productive than the starters were for this game.


 

I can't say I'm surprised. I think we're going to see more of this kind of bench output this year because 1) Hope's women won't have many close games and 2) Hope's bench is very talented.

Actually, you could argue that if the game is close, the "subs" should come in sooner, based on that two game performance.  They have been outplaying the starting unit in the first two games!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 20, 2007, 10:15:57 am
Here's a unique stat about Hope's 89-61 victory over Ohio Northern.  The starters scored 25 points in total, and the bench scored the remaining 64 points.  Thus the bench outscored ONU, 64 - 61!

The 5 Hope starters played a total of 67 minutes, while the 11 players coming off the bench played 130 minutes (numbers rounded off, since the total is not 200), so the entire bench was more productive than the starters were for this game.

I can't say I'm surprised. I think we're going to see more of this kind of bench output this year because 1) Hope's women won't have many close games and 2) Hope's bench is very talented.

Actually, you could argue that if the game is close, the "subs" should come in sooner, based on that two game performance.  They have been outplaying the starting unit in the first two games!

To be more acurate, you would have to look at points per player minute (ppm).  If you do that, in the first game the starters scored at a rate of 0.46 ppm based on 28 points (not 25) in 61 minutes.  The bench also scored at 0.46 ppm based on 65 points in 139 minutes - basically a wash.

In the second game, the starters scored at 0.37 ppm and the bench at 0.49 ppm. 

Either game, that's impressive.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on November 20, 2007, 11:43:12 am
Snikkers did play - she played with the second unit.  Something like 4 points and maybe about that many rebounds as well.  In my opinion, she looked more like a freshman than the rest of the freshman - but that might have been because of higher expectations.  Hope is an extremely deep team.

I think there is an issue with the scoreboard/stats board only handling 15 players, and Hope has 16.


I was more impressed with Snikkers on Saturday than Friday.  She seemed to be more comfortable.  I also like DeKuiper for defense and, of course, Kopke.  She never quits.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 20, 2007, 02:59:01 pm
Snikkers did play - she played with the second unit.  Something like 4 points and maybe about that many rebounds as well.  In my opinion, she looked more like a freshman than the rest of the freshman - but that might have been because of higher expectations.  Hope is an extremely deep team.

I think there is an issue with the scoreboard/stats board only handling 15 players, and Hope has 16.


I was more impressed with Snikkers on Saturday than Friday.  She seemed to be more comfortable.  I also like DeKuiper for defense and, of course, Kopke.  She never quits.

I could not get to the game, but I did notice that in only 16 minutes Snickers got 10 points on 5 of 8 shooting, led the team with 7 boards and tied for the lead with 3 assists, got one block and had zero turnovers.  Obviously the boxscore doesn't tell you everything, but a very good start statistically.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gottaluvhoops on November 20, 2007, 04:21:14 pm
Hope is going to go undefeated in the regular season.  They are to deep and strong inside!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on November 20, 2007, 05:21:10 pm
Snikkers did play - she played with the second unit.  Something like 4 points and maybe about that many rebounds as well.  In my opinion, she looked more like a freshman than the rest of the freshman - but that might have been because of higher expectations.  Hope is an extremely deep team.

I think there is an issue with the scoreboard/stats board only handling 15 players, and Hope has 16.


I was more impressed with Snikkers on Saturday than Friday.  She seemed to be more comfortable.  I also like DeKuiper for defense and, of course, Kopke.  She never quits.

I absolutely agree, on all counts.  Snikkers seemed to settle in on Saturday, andwas great fun to watch.  When she decides to work it inside to the basket, she can't be stopped.  DeKuiper has really impressed me, maybe the most of any of the freshmen so far.  What an abundance of blessings this team has!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on November 20, 2007, 08:59:03 pm
Hope is indeed deep and strong inside:  In Saturday's game at the 5 position Lange scored 6 in  9 mins., Snikkers scored 10 in 16 mins, and Knox scored 10 in  7 mins.  If you can get 26 points in 32 mins from your center position the zone is not going to be effective.  It doesn't look like we will see two of these players on the court at the same time, but if I was an opposing coach I would wonder what to do if it did happen.  Of course at the four position O'Hare is also doing a good job of racking up the points.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on November 20, 2007, 10:35:23 pm
Here's a unique stat about Hope's 89-61 victory over Ohio Northern.  The starters scored 25 points in total, and the bench scored the remaining 64 points.  Thus the bench outscored ONU, 64 - 61!The 5 Hope starters played a total of 67 minutes, while the 11 players coming off the bench played 130 minutes (numbers rounded off, since the total is not 200), so the entire bench was more productive than the starters were for this game.
I can't say I'm surprised. I think we're going to see more of this kind of bench output this year because 1) Hope's women won't have many close games and 2) Hope's bench is very talented.
Actually, you could argue that if the game is close, the "subs" should come in sooner, based on that two game performance.  They have been outplaying the starting unit in the first two games!
To be more acurate, you would have to look at points per player minute (ppm).  If you do that, in the first game the starters scored at a rate of 0.46 ppm based on 28 points (not 25) in 61 minutes.  The bench also scored at 0.46 ppm based on 65 points in 139 minutes - basically a wash. In the second game, the starters scored at 0.37 ppm and the bench at 0.49 ppm.  Either game, that's impressive.
Acurate?  Sorry, I couldn't let that one pass.
Seriously, FDF, thanks for catching my addition error.  At least we did not make this mistake; hopefully it was not a Kalamazoo College Grad that spelled this (you got to see it to believe it.):
http://www.chicagotribune.com:80/news/nationworld/sns-sns0906offbeats120070906051717,0,7163988.photo?coll=chi_home_promo
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 21, 2007, 11:38:15 am
AH - That's a good one!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 21, 2007, 01:12:13 pm
Hope is going to go undefeated in the regular season.  They are to deep and strong inside!
One has to love this level of team support, but not sure any team is ever too deep or strong indside.   There is probably little doubt that Hope will have an excellent year, but going undefeated is setting the bar pretty high. :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 21, 2007, 03:51:39 pm
I don't believe gottaluvhoops is a Hope fan.  They've made 11 posts, and 9 have been on the IIAC and MIAC boards.

The 2 posts in here have been

"Can Hope run the table?" and "Hope is going to go undefeated in the regular season.  They are to deep and strong inside!", about a week or two apart.


The most boisterous comments about Hope seem to be coming from people who rarely would wear orange or blue. ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on November 21, 2007, 04:28:55 pm
i think it schould be a good game tonight at 6.00 on whtc vs defaiance of ohio 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on November 21, 2007, 08:32:31 pm
Hope 93, Defiance 70
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on November 22, 2007, 12:04:43 am
To all the MIAA posters:

Wishing You Joys
Both Great and Small
And a Happy Thanksgiving
To you all!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: realist on November 22, 2007, 12:33:14 pm
Sac:  I have to agree it didn't sound like a typical Hope poster.  Hard to tell with people who post a few times, and then move on.   :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2007, 02:00:20 am
I don't believe gottaluvhoops is a Hope fan.  They've made 11 posts, and 9 have been on the IIAC and MIAC boards.

...

The most boisterous comments about Hope seem to be coming from people who rarely would wear orange or blue. ;)

How do you know it's not a Macalester fan? :)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gottaluvhoops on November 27, 2007, 09:39:45 am
Hope is up to #4 in the rankings!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on November 27, 2007, 10:45:26 am
Actually Hope remains at #4, although Calvin did move up from #9 to #6.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on November 27, 2007, 09:51:35 pm
Actually Hope remains at #4, although Calvin did move up from #9 to #6.

Hope's under rated (who can run with them?) and Calvin's over rated (too many personnel losses).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on November 30, 2007, 10:23:06 pm
Another impressive win by the Dutch tonight.  Depth proved to be the difference.  At one point in the 2nd half the Hope subs had outscored the Carthage subs 33-7.  And I think Snikkers is starting to understand the Hope system.  Should be a good game tomorrow as Wheaton beat Calvin.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on November 30, 2007, 11:26:19 pm

  And I think Snikkers is starting to understand the Hope system. 


16 points, 9 boards and 4 blocks in 21 minutes? Yeah, I would say so.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 01, 2007, 01:03:20 am
I think some coaches would take that kind of bench production, .......from their whole bench.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 01, 2007, 09:13:22 am
way to go hope girls keep it up today it schould be a great game today i hope a lot of fans show up and watch the game today it would be nice
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 01, 2007, 09:17:18 am

  And I think Snikkers is starting to understand the Hope system. 


16 points, 9 boards and 4 blocks in 21 minutes? Yeah, I would say so.

Here's the link for Dan D'Addona's take on the game with comments from Morehouse and Snikkers in today's Sentinel.

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/120107/localsports_20071201065.shtml
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 01, 2007, 02:56:56 pm
Carthage 52 Calvin 50

Hope 73 Wheaton 56

Carries Snikkers with 15 and 5 bds. off the bench.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 01, 2007, 03:06:14 pm
Carthage 52 Calvin 50

wow! I think we all expected Calvin to have a tough early start to their season due to injuries but I never expected to see them lose both games this weekend!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on December 01, 2007, 08:39:28 pm
Some notes from today's first game:

1.  There are NO players from Wisconsin on Carthage's team. Kinda interesting.

2.  Carthage played like they forgot about the time change. Just a bit slower and their passing a bit fuzzy.

3.  Bounce passing is going to kill me yet!!!!!!!!!  Watching both teams try to execute the "bounce pass" got scarier and scarier as the game went on - kinda like driving home from Holland to Kazoo this evening. Holy Not Fun!!  But as Dorothy shares with Toto, "There's no place like home!"

4.  Carthaged TOTALLY depended on #54, who was a good player, but one player does not make a team!

5.  Carthage never gave up. Behind by about a dozen in the second half they just kept chipping away. A note to the coach from Carthage:  When totally disgusted/disappointed with the play of your team, if you're going to turn your back on them, hand the game over to an assistant coach so that they'll know that someone believes in them.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on December 01, 2007, 09:05:30 pm
Some notes from today's second game:

1.  When Carrie Snickers entered the game and scored her first points, the person that I was sitting by, we both mentioned it would be fun for everybody at the game sometime later in the season to be given a Snickers candy bar as they entered the DeVos, and then we'd hold them up in her honor. Well... the guys who run the giant scoreboard must have been evesdropping as there was a HUGE graphic of a Snickers candy bar on the scoreboard when Carrie scored. That was fun!

2.  At the beginning of the game I made a note to myself to check the number of minutes played for #45 for Wheaton. I was going to guess that the coach would play her for much of the game, but as the game progressed, I saw that she didn't have the stamina for a full game and ended up playing 27 minutes. But later I wondered the same for #21, and looking at the stats, YEP, all 40 minutes!  And that same tone came across in her play. As there is "me" in the word team! Don't get me wrong, she is a good player, but she needs to remember that there are four others out there at the same time that she is playing.

3.  Is Linebacking 101 an official class at Wheaton? Instead of snowing outside it was raining offense charging/pushing by the Thunder in the first half!

4.  Before I forget - a REALLY COOL NATIONAL ANTHEM done by a group of women members from the Holland Chorale!  VERY IMPRESSIVE!!! It would be really sweet if they could sing prior to one of the games when Hope hosts the Final Four Tournament!

5.  Hope Ladies - Lots of good things. The game was close the first half with Hope leading 32-30, but then the depth of Hopes team was too much for the Thunder. Hope just kept substituting with just as strong or even stronger players. They led in rebounding, assists, steals and had half as many turnovers as Wheaton.  They're just a lot of fun to watch, and... they have fun playing too!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on December 01, 2007, 09:38:04 pm
One last thing. It was interesting noting that when I looked at Wheaton's roster, I noticed that players came from 9 states! For those of us in the MIAA most of our players come much more regionally, if not within a two hour radius of the school. Being limited in knowledge about other teams, I wondered about Washington U. in St. Louis, since they are also a school that receives students nationwide. They have players from 16 states on the Women's Basketball team!!!  I'm going to guess that the majority of D3 schools have players on a team that are more regionally vs. nationally, but it would be fun to hear from others on this!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on December 01, 2007, 10:24:15 pm

And I think Snikkers is starting to understand the Hope system.


If by "Hope system" you mean .... take ball, be tall, score again and again .... then I'd agree.  She's starting to understand.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 02, 2007, 08:49:17 am
good job hope girls keep it rolling all seasson long
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on December 04, 2007, 11:15:47 pm
Several comments regarding the Hope women's basketball team after their impressive 5-0 start:

1) Of their top 8 scorers, five of them have yet to start a game this year.  Another way of looking at it is that five "non-starters" have outscored two starters.  And it's not because they have more playing time.   These five "non-starters" have totaled 343 minutes while scoring 181 points, while the five starters (who started every game this year) have totaled 441 minutes while scoring 171.   Incidentally, also of the 8 top scorers, only 2 are seniors, 2 juniors, 3 sophmores, and 1 freshman.

2) The leading scorer of the team has averaged only 10.8 points per game.

The Dutch have now been ranked # 1 in the USA Today/ESPN poll, and # 3 in the  D3 Hoops poll.

Heard an interesting post-game interview with Asst. Coach Dean Morehouse this past weekend.  When asked about the starters and the reserves, he stated that Hope only has two teams:  Those playing on the floor at that moment, and those on the bench.  He never used the words starters or reserves, or 1st and 2nd team.  When the interviewer brought up Carrie Snickers, he said that she is still a freshman who like the other freshmen is still learing the Hope system.  He then praised her for her talent.  Spoken like a true veteran coach who keeps things in perspective.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 05, 2007, 09:13:26 pm
Hope 92 Marygrove 40

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/1205magr.htm

Hope takes on Albion Saturday following the men's tournament.  Good double-header against good competition.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeConvert on December 05, 2007, 10:57:33 pm
Hope 92 Marygrove 40

Hope takes on Albion Saturday following the men's tournament.  Good double-header against good competition.

As Oldknight said at the game tonight, they keep outscoring the opposition 5-2 every two minutes or so. They never seemed to go on a big run, but every time you looked up at the score board, the lead was 10 points larger. Hope's women came at Marygrove in waves. It really wasn't fair. I was most impressed with Kaitlyn Kopke - she's fearless, and quick.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 06, 2007, 04:00:34 pm
man what a blowout last night  hope they do it saturday to vs albion it would be nice if they could
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 06, 2007, 10:36:27 pm
Hope 6-0 vs Albion 6-0

Last year Albion beat Hope at Albion, one of Hope's 4 losses.  The win by Hope in DeVos was a game Hope dominated, but Albion never quit and made it a game in the end, it should be a good contest.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 08, 2007, 09:03:53 am
Hope 6-0 vs Albion 6-0

Last year Albion beat Hope at Albion, one of Hope's 4 losses.  The win by Hope in DeVos was a game Hope dominated, but Albion never quit and made it a game in the end, it should be a good contest.

Albion's best player appears to be a player with whom I am familiar, Brittany Kemperman, who prepped at GR Catholic Center. She was a good high school player and a very accurate shooter but I'm pretty sure the Brits will be outmanned (or, outwomaned) tonight. Hope has 10 players as good (or better) than Kemperman. Other players of note for Albion are Guimond (6'2") and Till (6'0") who seem to carry the inside scoring load as well as rebounding. From Albion's season box it looks like the Brits beat teams largely on the strength of rebounding (45 to 30). Hope can throw talented big players at Albion in waves and the Brits are not likely to enjoy the fruits of a dominating rebounding margin. I don't anticipate a particularly close game. Hope by 20+.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on December 08, 2007, 07:13:59 pm
Margins of victory by the Women's Top 13.

(2) Howard Payne 36.2
(3) Hope 31.5
(7) UW Whitewater 28.7
(1) Mary Washington 28
(5) Kean 27.5
(4) Messiah 25.3
(12) Illinois Wesleyan 23.4
(13) Simpson 23
(6) NYU 21.4
(9) Southern Maine 18.7
(11) Thomas More 17
(8) DePauw 14.5
(10) McMurry 11.8
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 08, 2007, 11:08:46 pm
Hope 75 Albion 63

Hope played one outstanding half and led by 19, then played one less than outstanding half and were beaten by 7.  Not much different than last years contest with Albion really.  The Brits are really young and play really hard, they sure didn't give up.  I thought Hope lost their edge with the big first half.

Hope was never threatened, I don't believe the lead ever reached less than 12 after the initial Hope burst.  Hope's indeed loaded, there are a LOT of nice pieces on the floor at all times.  I left feeling Albion is a really good team.

Carrie Snikkers in a Hope uniform is well...........its just going to be unfair :D.   She had an off night shooting, but 6-3 and can shoot 3's prettier than anyone else?   She had enough really good plays to make me say wow several times.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gottaluvhoops on December 10, 2007, 09:41:59 am
Hope train is still rolling!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 12, 2007, 04:08:09 pm
yes and i hope they keep it rolling all year long  it would be great
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on December 15, 2007, 05:07:22 pm
Hope beats North Central, 70 - 59.  Game was not that close, as Hope was up by 28 at one point in the second half.

Warsen is the only player in double figures with 10.  Everyone scores except for one player.  Have not seen the stats yet, but the Flying Dutch "D" created a large number of turnovers.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 15, 2007, 07:56:01 pm
yes a lot of turnovers for both teams and a lot of shots missed
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 15, 2007, 08:09:45 pm
Hope beats North Central, 70 - 59.  Game was not that close, as Hope was up by 28 at one point in the second half.

Warsen is the only player in double figures with 10.  Everyone scores except for one player.  Have not seen the stats yet, but the Flying Dutch "D" created a large number of turnovers.

According to the box Warsen got her 10 on only 3 shots (she went 6-8 from the line). Hope forced 36 turnovers, getting an amazing 24 steals. I see that Hope, after taking a commanding 60-32 lead, got outscored 27-10 the last 10 minutes of the game. Apparently boredom set in.

While I can respect what Morehouse has done with Hope's women in his tenure, I continue to think it was a mistake for him to carry 16 players on his varsity roster. He has 6 freshmen on his varsity and I see at least 2 who should have been placed on the JV team. He has several excellent varsity players--young ladies who could start at other schools--who are getting as little as 10-12 minutes in some games. In fact, only 3 players average more than 15 minutes per game (Boles leads with 20.1)and I wouldn't be surprised if some of these women aren't real happy about that. Eventually Hope will find a competitive opponent and game and when that happens we will see if the limited minutes his most important players are currently playing have prepared them properly for that type of game. I'm wondering about that myself.

Calvin, even with their losses from graduation and players who chose not to play, could offer that kind of competition. The Lady Knights, though not as deep or talented as Hope, do have some tough minded, blue collar players who could pull an upset on Hope. I'm wondering how Hope would react to a gut-check, rivalry game that challenges them. Every good team needs consistency to get over the hump of a 25+ game schedule and we don't know if Hope has developed that yet because their best players don't play enough.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on December 15, 2007, 08:43:36 pm
Interesting observations, OldKnight.

So far, Hope's women have been so vastly superior to most teams they've played that one has to presume that practice provides the needed challenge.  One benefit of the second five being so nearly equal to the first five is that both groups face tough competition and a hard workout most practice days, I'd guess.  (Game day may be something of a let up.)

Today, the Hope women put in the five players who hadn't yet played with just under 10 minutes to go and the score 60 to 32.  Meanwhile the North Central coach seemed not to go to the end of her bench, and in fact was playing her first five for the game's final minutes, during which the margin shrunk.  So, yes, the final score does not tell the story.

Several times in the last few minutes I was impressed with the athleticism of Erika Bruinsma, who was comfortably able, though 6' 1", to dribble through traffic.  I expect to see a lot more from her the next three years.

Even on an off-shooting day, with lots of missed layups and only 1 3-point shot, Hope's women (like its men) thrive on its defense.  I see Philly Green was only credited with one steal, but her intense defense seemed to lead to a lot of turnovers and steals by others.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 16, 2007, 10:12:43 am
also  it was nice to see  jordyn  get her 1000  points  at home yesterday  maybe they will have some close game this week friday and saturday it would be nice to see a close game 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Trailer Dog on December 16, 2007, 11:32:52 am

.....Even on an off-shooting day, with lots of missed layups and only 1 3-point shot, Hope's women (like its men) thrive on its defense.  I see Philly Green was only credited with one steal, but her intense defense seemed to lead to a lot of turnovers and steals by others.

Another reason the Dutch will win it all this winter.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 18, 2007, 04:12:13 pm
 A former Knight made the notables today.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 19, 2007, 09:41:50 pm
Albion 78, Calvin 51    whoa!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 19, 2007, 10:18:53 pm
Albion drowned and battered Calvin tonight using a rain of Brit 3's and a hail of Lady Knight turnovers. Albion methodically pulled into a 12 point lead at half and simply did more of the same in the second. Albion is a young club and displayed a balanced inside-out game that didn't show up at DeVos earlier this month. After so-so shooting in the first half the Knights shot miserably in the second. Calvin did OK on the boards but got beat to all the loose balls. But the big problem for Calvin was the turnovers, committing many silly ones that led to fast breaks and easy shots for the Brits. John Ross tried to pull all the strings, using up all his time outs by the 14:48 mark of the second half, but to no avail. It didn't help Calvin that Kristi Brummel never got on the floor and I have no idea why.

Since Albion got swamped in the first half against Hope earlier this month I think this young Brit team has made improvement and is the only possible speed bump for the Hope women on the way to their league title. Albion has enough size and good shooting to give Hope a game at Kresge. I imagine the Albion women have circled January 19 on their calendar and would like some payback that Saturday.

One sidenote about Calvin's lone freshmen on the varsity roster--Kacy Cryderman. I was very interested in her last name because a Paul Cryderman played for Albion during the Mark Veenstra years. Paul was an excellent player and a two-time All-Conference selection, a great rebounder and defender for the Brits, the prototype of a Mike Turner hoopster. It only took about three times up and down the court for me to realize that Kacy was a similar type player from the distaff side. She ran the court well, played strong and unintimidated and showed that she is a very good 6'1" female athlete. During the course of the game two guys sitting in front of me were talking about her so I inquired about her pedigree and--lo and behold--she is Paul Cryderman's daughter. According to Paul's former roomie at Albion, the Brits never showed much interest in her as a prepster but John Ross did so she's at Knollcrest now. I find this be even stranger and more interesting than if a Hope alum had his daughter playing at Calvin. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 21, 2007, 03:50:26 pm
going to the girls game tonight i hope for some good games this week would  be nice to watch
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on December 21, 2007, 10:53:21 pm
WOW!  Calvin's Lisa Winkle wins the NCAA "Top VIII" award.  See miaa.org for details.  First MIAA player to receive this honor!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 21, 2007, 10:54:55 pm
Hope 75 St. Mary's 58

Hope hosts 7-2 Hanover tommorrow afternoon.  They've each beaten DefianceOH, Hope by 23, Hanover 13.

This could be a good matchup.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 22, 2007, 09:04:24 am
it looks like they want to press the hole game full court  it schould be a pretty good game i think to
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on December 22, 2007, 04:40:25 pm
Hope destroys a good Hanover team 88-49. 

Boles 12
Snikkers 13 pts, 7 reb, 3 stl, 3 blk in 14 minutes of work.  Imagine what she would do if she started and played 25 min.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 23, 2007, 09:15:43 am
yes the hope girls played really good it is going to take a really good team to beat hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dumezrules on December 23, 2007, 08:42:42 pm


Snikkers 13 pts, 7 reb, 3 stl, 3 blk in 14 minutes of work.  Imagine what she would do if she started and played 25 min.

From what I have seen, she would need an oxygen mask to play that long....she isnt in the shape some of the other girls are

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on December 27, 2007, 03:05:47 pm
Does Albion deserve to be in the national conversation?  They are 8-1 with a couple of good wins over Brockport State (5-1) and Calvin (6-3).  When the next top 25 comes out, i believe they should get at least a couple of votes!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on December 27, 2007, 03:50:11 pm
SKOT: Good Question. 

Albion is certainly the best team Hope has faced this year - including Wheaton and Carthage which both beat ranked teams.  Looking ahead at the Britons schedule it looks like they should win the upcoming games with Wisconsin-Superior and Concordia (Illinois).  After that it is all league play.  With the convincing win against Calvin it looks possible that Albion could finish with three losses - all of them to Hope.  (I assume that Hope's depth will result in victories even though Albion is always tough on their home court).

If the Britons finish with a 24-3 record with all the losses coming against the #1 or #2 team (depending on the poll) they should at least make the post season.

In terms of cracking the top 25 I think their schedule works against them with a couple of NAIA games, a weak conference and only one ranked school on the schedule.   D3 rankings are based a lot on reputation - just look at Calvin's votes early in the year when it was fairly well known within the region that graduation, attrition, injuries and a transfer had weakened the team.  So I would not be surprised if they fly under the radar unless they beat Hope.  However, if the Britons win at least one game in the post-season and return this year's underclassman they will get votes next year.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on December 27, 2007, 06:18:52 pm


Snikkers 13 pts, 7 reb, 3 stl, 3 blk in 14 minutes of work.  Imagine what she would do if she started and played 25 min.

From what I have seen, she would need an oxygen mask to play that long....she isnt in the shape some of the other girls are



I will grant that Snikkers may not be in as good a shape as she was last year but to say that "she would need an oxygen mask to play that long" is a comment laden with hyperbole. In last year's Class B semifinal win over Detroit Country Day she played 35 of the 36 minutes available--including the entire 4 minute overtime--without any noticeable laboring or drop in production. In Hope's win Saturday against Hanover, Snikkers displayed some of the reasons why she is such a dominating figure on the court--it's because she is such an efficient player who doesn't waste energy, makes good decisions, and is typically in the right place at the right time. This is particularly true on defense where her contributions are hardly even noticed by the casual fan who typically focuses on how many points are scored. Hanover had a pretty good freshmen post player (Martin) who scored 6 early points before Snikkers ever got on the floor. In less than three minutes of play, Martin attempted 6 shots from the floor while being guarded by Carrie. Two were blocked, the other four had little chance of success and none went in. Later, after Hanover realized giving the ball to their post player wasn't a recipe for offensive success, Snikkers sniffed out passes to Hanover players she was not guarding. She totally disrupted any offensive flow Hanover was trying to create and she started several breaks with her ability to quickly outlet the ball to a streaking Hope player.  I was sitting close to the floor and I never noticed any need for oxygen.

Does Albion deserve to be in the national conversation?  They are 8-1 with a couple of good wins over Brockport State (5-1) and Calvin (6-3).  When the next top 25 comes out, i believe they should get at least a couple of votes!

Absolutely. I saw Albion against both Hope and Calvin and if Pat gave me his ballot I would definately give the Brits a vote in the Top 20. They have solid players both inside and out, shoot the ball well, and play good defense. I don't think they will lose many games this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 27, 2007, 08:26:03 pm
My experience with women's basketball is admittedly minimal but I certainly left the Hope/Albion game feeling like Hope beat a pretty good basketball team.  The blowout of Calvin should confirm that.

I think Hope (and anyone for that matter) will have their hands full with the Brits the rest of the season.  Thats a good young, developing team.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on December 28, 2007, 06:33:42 am
yes i thought albion was pretty good to they wont lose to many games maybe 2 losses in the miaa both to hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 30, 2007, 11:13:42 pm
Looks like the Lady Dutch will be the new #1 in the next poll.  #5 UW-Whitewater knocks off current #1 Mary Washington 70-67 today.  We'll see but it seems likely.

Just in time for a Jan 9 meeting at Calvin. ;)  Tri-State will get the first shot Jan 5.



Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on December 31, 2007, 01:08:39 pm
Rough weekend for the Lady Hornets of Kalamazoo, on Saturday they lost on a layup/w foul + the Free throw with 2 seconds on the clock.......Redlands 58 Kalamazoo 56

On Sunday, they lost a double OT thriller to Wooster 93-92 which included a 3 with 1:17 left to tie for Kzoo, a 3 to go ahead by 3 just 20 seconds later, and another Kzoo 3 20 seconds later to tie and eventually send the game into OT.  All while surviving 2 final last second attempts by Wooster.

The first OT included a heartbreaking miss at the FT line with 10 seconds to go, which would have won the game, and again surviving a last second 3.

The second OT saw Wooster held scoreless for 2 1/2 minutes before bombing in their last 3, 3 point shots, including the game winner with just 6 seconds to go.  The final minutes included 2 missed Kzoo FT's which could have meant a 3rd OT.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/1230kzwo.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on January 01, 2008, 07:42:24 pm
Word on the street right now is that if you're looking for FINAL FOUR tickets, then you had better HOPE that your team is one of the final four. That's because ALL of the general admission and reserved seats have been sold out!! That's pretty spectacular!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 02, 2008, 08:07:55 pm
As expected the Dutch claim the top spot in the latest poll, receiving 11 #1 votes.

Mary Washington had 16 first place which changed hands this week.

#1 Hope +4
#2 Whitewater +6
#3 Howard Payne +3
#4 New York +3

Only 24 poll points separate #1 from #3
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 03, 2008, 02:15:27 pm


The preseason poll has Hope ranked 12th and based on who they have coming back and the entering freshmen (including Michigan's Class B Player of the Year) this ranking is too low. If Hope stays healthy this year they've got the makings of a Final Four team.
As expected the Dutch claim the top spot in the latest poll, receiving 11 #1 votes.

Mary Washington had 16 first place which changed hands this week.

#1 Hope +4
#2 Whitewater +6
#3 Howard Payne +3
#4 New York +3

Only 24 poll points separate #1 from #3

It's funny how I can take no particular pleasure in being right. :(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 03, 2008, 03:21:47 pm


The preseason poll has Hope ranked 12th and based on who they have coming back and the entering freshmen (including Michigan's Class B Player of the Year) this ranking is too low. If Hope stays healthy this year they've got the makings of a Final Four team.
As expected the Dutch claim the top spot in the latest poll, receiving 11 #1 votes.

Mary Washington had 16 first place which changed hands this week.

#1 Hope +4
#2 Whitewater +6
#3 Howard Payne +3
#4 New York +3

Only 24 poll points separate #1 from #3

It's funny how I can take no particular pleasure in being right. :(

And maybe even funnier that lots of Hope fans are HOPEing your right about the Final Four
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 03, 2008, 10:47:07 pm
Per Dave Collinge's excellent work on the Daily Dose this is the first time Hope has been ranked #1 during the regular season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 04, 2008, 04:29:39 pm
yes that is nice it looks like saturday game will be a another blow out for the hope girls vs tri state compared to what the stats are
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Bilk on January 05, 2008, 02:18:21 am
yes that is nice it looks like saturday game will be a another blow out for the hope girls vs tri state compared to what the stats are

When isn't Hope v. anyone not be a blowout?  Unless they can play GVSU they're not going to see anything close to them until the NCAAs; and maybe not even then.

IMO, talent-wise the 2007-2008 Dutch are the best women's hoops team the MIAA's ever seen.  Agreed?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 05, 2008, 03:48:23 am

IMO, talent-wise the 2007-2008 Dutch are the best women's hoops team the MIAA's ever seen.  Agreed?

I think we're a long way from finding that out.

BEST OVERALL RECORD
33-1 Hope, 2005-06 ==National Champion
31-1 Hope, 2002-03
28-3 Calvin, 2006-07
27-3 Hope, 2001-02
25-3    Hope, 2000-01
24-2    Hope, 1989-90 ==National Champion
24-3 Alma, 1991-92 ==National Champion

There have been some awfully talented women's teams in the MIAA's history. 


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: scottiedawg on January 05, 2008, 03:33:19 pm
Does anyone know why Stacy Warsen did not start and has not played?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 05, 2008, 05:57:58 pm
Hope 81 Trine 58

....not bad for a team that was 3-22 from 3  :-\, no word on Miss Warsen.  How do you get 30 more shots at the basket than your oponent (rhetorical, I know how).  84 shots in one game.......thats going to ruin their efficiency rating.



Albion 75 Olivet 66 OT

.....Albion dodges  a huge bullet as Olivet makes 1 of 2 FT's with :09 remaining in regulation.  Then the Brits dominate the OT.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 06, 2008, 09:05:36 am
i think she sprained her ankle she was limping  pretty good and resting her up for wed night at calvin
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 06, 2008, 05:03:16 pm
Does anyone know why Stacy Warsen did not start and has not played?

The Sentinel blog said she sprained he ankle while "tubing" in Traverse City ..........I would hope that such a smart, intelligent young Hope student was tubing on snow and not water in January.  :D ;)

She was held out of the game in hopes she would be 100% or close to it for Calvin on Wednesday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 06, 2008, 08:38:42 pm
sac,

There are plenty of indoor waterparks in the Traverse City area.  But, true, if outdoors, tubing on water this time of year might call for psychiatric intervention! ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Hopetix on January 07, 2008, 11:52:15 am
Wanted to clarify about Final Four tickets for women's final four being held at Hope in March. What is sold out at this point are the reserved seats for Saturday's championship and consolation games. There are about 10 reserved seats left for Friday's two games. At this point there are still quite a few general admission tickets left. Those are not sold out.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on January 07, 2008, 05:43:01 pm
Wanted to clarify about Final Four tickets for women's final four being held at Hope in March. What is sold out at this point are the reserved seats for Saturday's championship and consolation games. There are about 10 reserved seats left for Friday's two games. At this point there are still quite a few general admission tickets left. Those are not sold out.



Welcome, Hopetix!   ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Civic Minded on January 07, 2008, 05:43:30 pm
Wanted to clarify about Final Four tickets for women's final four being held at Hope in March. What is sold out at this point are the reserved seats for Saturday's championship and consolation games. There are about 10 reserved seats left for Friday's two games. At this point there are still quite a few general admission tickets left. Those are not sold out.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gottaluvhoops on January 09, 2008, 11:32:06 am
Early predictions for the final four?  Hope should be there!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 09, 2008, 02:47:01 pm
Livestats and broadcast for tonight's games at www.miaa.org

Hope at Calvin at 6pm.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 09, 2008, 03:19:02 pm
Early predictions for the final four?  Hope should be there!!

I wish I could participate, but there is not enough information to work with.

I Hope that the Dutch will be there as much as anyone and have already purchased reserved seats.  However, I think it is almost impossible to make final four predictions in D3 since we do not see any teams from other regions play,  there aren no televised games and few common opponents among the top teams.

For instance, the #2 ranked team, Wisconsin - Whitewater, is no more than a five hour drive and in a neighboring state, but shares no common opponents with Hope.  I did not know anything about Howard Payne so I checked their site and found they are a successful program with size and it looks like they could match up well with Hope.

When the field is down to 16 there may be enough common opponents to make some reasonable guesses.

I am more concerned about tonight's game with Calvin.  On paper, it is an easy victory, but I doubt Calvin will roll over on their home court.

So whille I suspect Hope has a great chance, I wish they had a tougher schedule to prepare for the off season.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 09, 2008, 03:49:35 pm
Past NCAA pairings have also put Hope in regions that would include UW Whitewater and were in DePauw's region the past 2 seasons.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 09, 2008, 10:29:04 pm
In a game dominated by defense, Hope won 56-39. The Lady Knights shot miserably (13 of 56) but that was exclusively due to Hope's defensive pressure which was suffocating all night. Calvin needed a big game from Harris and from one perimeter player but Hope's bigs hounded Marcia into a 3 for 16 night. Calvin went 3 for 15 from the arc and I don't think any one of those trey attempts could be considered an open look. Hope's defense reacted so spontaneously to every offensive move, that Calvin's offense never was comfortable.

I actually think the Lady Knights did well to keep this a competitive game until about the 5 minute mark. Calvin stayed in the game with pretty good defense of their own and made life pretty miserable for Greene who had a lousy game, getting twice as many turnovers as points (8 to 4). If the much smaller Lady Knights could have kept Hope off the boards (Hope had 15 second chances) Calvin would have kept this game closer. Calvin should be credited with giving Hope its poorest offensive showing of the season. Hope opened up a double digit lead in the first half largely on the strength of Snikkers' outside shooting. Carrie had a double/double with 15 points and 12 boards in a game high 22 minutes of play.

This is the third time I've seen Hope's women play this year and the more I watch them the more I'm convinced that Cowen is--by far--the best athlete on the team. She has all the attributes necessary to be a star. She's quick, fast and has outstanding lateral movement. Combined with her tenacity she can make life miserable for anyone she's guarding. She is also a good ball handler and has nice form on her jumper. When there's a loose ball on the floor she typically comes away with it. She reminds me a little bit of a Steve Cramer from the distaff side.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 10, 2008, 01:25:33 am
15pts and 12rbs in 22 minutes............... ::)


....and I agree about Cowen.  8)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 10, 2008, 06:44:40 am
way to go girls keep it rolling now olivet saturday  good job on beating calvin wed night
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 12, 2008, 05:21:03 pm
Calvin loses to Adrian 61-54. Adrian finished the game on a 31-13 run over the last 12 minutes. Calvin's shooting woes continue hitting only 30% for the game and 21% in the second half. Adrian grabbed 14 offensive boards. Harris had a double/double with 18 and 10 and Zimmerman added 10 points. On the positive side Brummel saw 20 minutes of action and scored six. Looks like a tough year for the Lady Knights.

The Hope freight train keeps rolling with a 65-48 win over Olivet. A quick look at the live stats shows that Snikkers was a DNP. I know she has tendinitis in one ankle and--despite her double/double against Calvin Wednesday--she was visibly limping that night. Apparently it's gotten worse.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on January 12, 2008, 10:01:08 pm
Calvin loses to Adrian 61-54. Adrian finished the game on a 31-13 run over the last 12 minutes. Calvin's shooting woes continue hitting only 30% for the game and 21% in the second half. Adrian grabbed 14 offensive boards. Harris had a double/double with 18 and 10 and Zimmerman added 10 points. On the positive side Brummel saw 20 minutes of action and scored six. Looks like a tough year for the Lady Knights.

The Hope freight train keeps rolling with a 65-48 win over Olivet. A quick look at the live stats shows that Snikkers was a DNP. I know she has tendinitis in one ankle and--despite her double/double against Calvin Wednesday--she was visibly limping that night. Apparently it's gotten worse.

My sister was at the women's game, sitting near at least one of the jayvees.  She heard that Carrie has a stress fracture in her foot, and is in a walking cast.  I HOPE she has a speedy recovery.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 12, 2008, 11:09:51 pm
The score makes Hope's victory seem more decisive than it felt watching the game.  The Dutch's lead was single digits most of the second half, Olivet narrowed the lead to 7 points on more than one occasion and was trailing by only nine points with three mins. left.

Hope's offense seems to be out of sync since the break with many missed layups and relatively few three pointers - but they continue to win by comfortable margins.  Everyone continues to play tough defense and they are winning games by limiting their opponents opportunities.

Warsen played, but obviously continues to be hobbled by the ankle injury and as previously mentioned Snikkers DNP due to a foot injury.  I heard that while it is possibly a stress fracture she does not yet have a definitive diagnosis.  Hope did not have any scoring from the forward position this afternoon except for late in the game when centers Knox (picking up Snikkers' minutes) and Lange were in the game together and by default one had to play the 4 position.

There were some bright spots.  The Dutch dominated inside.  Together Knox (13) and Lange (12) scored 25.  Both were able to consitently post up inside. However, they missed a total of 16 shots, most of which they normally would have easily made.  The poor shooting was partially offset by each going to the line eight times and making 11 of the 16.  Looking at the stats it appears Knox made 5 of 6 down the stretch. 

Green. as always, played great defense and shot 5 for 8.

Henderson, who unselfishly seems to be defense and assit focused this year, took matters in her own hands and took the ball to the basket when things were tight and Hope needed a score.  She scored only one fieldgoal, but made 6 of 7 from the line.

The Dutch have proved they can win when one part of their game is not working.  The injury to Snikkers is unfortunate, but Hope has the luxury of giving her time to recover without rushing her back into service.  How many teams have the depth at post to play without the services of players the caliber of Snikkers and Warsen* and to have the "third string" center lead the team in scoring and rebounds.

I am sure the team will be firing on all cylinders soon.  Perhaps having to work through some tough games will help them prepare for the post-season.

*Edited from original which said "Snikkers and Lange."  Lange played (as noted earlier in the post) and was effective on both offense and defense.  Warsen put in her minutes, but it appeared the ankle limited her offensively. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 13, 2008, 09:12:02 pm
Reason #1 teams shouldn't be penciled into a final four in December.---Injuries.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on January 13, 2008, 11:01:17 pm
Coach Morehouse said tonight that he hoped that Snickers would be out only four weeks, just in time for the second Calvin game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 14, 2008, 06:46:11 pm
You know... This is all due to Pat's "looking like" optimism.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 15, 2008, 12:51:42 pm
You know... This is all due to Pat's "looking like" optimism.  ;)

Listening to hoopsville the other night I kind of got the feeling they might think Hope is the #1 team in the country.  They didn't seem very definitive in their opinoin.  ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 15, 2008, 09:14:25 pm
I've heard some talk away from the boards that while Hope's women's team is very good, the perception is they've played a very weak schedule.

According to massey's ratings for schedule strength,

Olivet #8
Calvin #28
Albion #37
St. Mary's #46
Hope #47
Adrian #70
Tri-State #94
Kalamazoo #171
Alma #200

#47 is much better than what I would have thought listening to others complain about their lack of competition.  In fact its downright impressive that 7 of 9 are in the top 100 and all 9 are in the top half for schedule strength.

Overall the league ranks #10 which I believe is pretty good on a historical basis for the league.  I think 7 of the 9 are in the top half of D3.


Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on January 16, 2008, 08:34:26 am
I've heard some talk away from the boards that while Hope's women's team is very good, the perception is they've played a very weak schedule.

According to massey's ratings for schedule strength,

Olivet #8
Calvin #28
Albion #37
St. Mary's #46
Hope #47
Adrian #70
Tri-State #94
Kalamazoo #171
Alma #200

#47 is much better than what I would have thought listening to others complain about their lack of competition.  In fact its downright impressive that 7 of 9 are in the top 100 and all 9 are in the top half for schedule strength.

Overall the league ranks #10 which I believe is pretty good on a historical basis for the league.  I think 7 of the 9 are in the top half of D3.




Thanks for compiling this list, sac,both here and on the men's board.  I'm wondering how the other teams in the top ten are ranked (both men and women)?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 16, 2008, 09:25:41 am
Has there been any word in the Holland Sentinel or the Holland gossip underworld since Sunday on the status of Snikkers?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 16, 2008, 04:37:36 pm
Has there been any word in the Holland Sentinel or the Holland gossip underworld since Sunday on the status of Snikkers?

An X-Ray showed no break and a bone scan also did not detect any fracture but some swelling is still present. The plan is to keep her foot in a boot the rest of this week and then reevaluate it. Apparently the doctor isn't sure what's going on either but if the swelling subsides Snikkers might be back on the court next week.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 16, 2008, 06:04:29 pm
Has there been any word in the Holland Sentinel or the Holland gossip underworld since Sunday on the status of Snikkers?

An X-Ray showed no break and a bone scan also did not detect any fracture but some swelling is still present. The plan is to keep her foot in a boot the rest of this week and then reevaluate it. Apparently the doctor isn't sure what's going on either but if the swelling subsides Snikkers might be back on the court next week.

Wow, that'd be great news for Hope. And well not good news at all for the rest of the MIAA.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 16, 2008, 09:19:48 pm
The Lady Knights hammer Olivet 93-61, shooting 64.4% from the floor. It appears Calvin's shooting woes ended with a bang (hopefully for the season) and Olivet was the unlucky recipient of the reawakening.

Hope beat Adrian 75-54 breaking away from a 36-25 half time lead. Apparently Hope was never seriously challenged in the second half.

The shocker of the night--Alma clubbing Albion 76-57. 'Ya think the Brits might have been lookin' ahead to Saturday's game against Hope?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 17, 2008, 02:02:56 pm
Has there been any word in the Holland Sentinel or the Holland gossip underworld since Sunday on the status of Snikkers?

An X-Ray showed no break and a bone scan also did not detect any fracture but some swelling is still present. The plan is to keep her foot in a boot the rest of this week and then reevaluate it. Apparently the doctor isn't sure what's going on either but if the swelling subsides Snikkers might be back on the court next week.

Wow, that'd be great news for Hope. And well not good news at all for the rest of the MIAA.

It is good news, but there doesn't appear to be any reason to rush Snikkers back before she is near 100% and pain free.

Even with Carrie out there is little good news for  the rest of MIAA.  Hope is deep at the 5 position.  In the last two games Lange and Knox have combined for 42 pts, 28 rbs, and 7 stls in a total 73 mins played.  Knox, filling in for Snikkers, has accounted for 20 pts, 18 rbs and 3 stls. 

There are few D3 teams with the big player depth of the Dutch.  Most teams have a big drop off in production from the first line post to the second line.  Not many can play three centers with good production with the option of having a fresh rested big player in the game all of the time.

Snikkers is very important to the ulitimate success of the team, but what she really needs to do is get healthy, and play enough games to be sharp for the conference tourney and post-season.

While Lange and Knox are doing an outstanding job, there are important dimensions that Snikkers brings to the game.  She is a good perimeter player and three point shooter.  (I don't recall Knox or Lange and three point shot being used together  :)).  These talents provide Morehouse with options his opponents cannot employ.  If he needs to match up small, Warsen and O'Hare can fill their role.  Lange seems able to guard anyone.

However, if he wants to go big he can play two of the three 5's at the same time.  He did this in the second half at Calvin with Snikkers and Knox, and at Olivet with Lange and Knox when the score was a little tighter than desired and in both the cases the lead widened.  However, if only 2 or the three are available the Dutch can not go big to early in the game due to foul trouble concerns.

It seems that pairing Knox with Snikkers could be a powerful offensive combination.  Even though Knox has the eleventh most playing time, she is #1 in both total rebounds and offensive rebounds.  If Carrie goes outside the other team has to use size to guard against her shot and scramble to come up with a solution to an offensive rebounder.  Things would not be easier on the defensive boards since Snikkers is the best defensive rebounder.

Sorry for the long post and I do not mean to downplay the contribution of the guards.  Hope's trasition offense is dependent on their tough defense.  But this years team has something in common with the 2005 team that last year's team didn't and that is three productive big players.  In '05 it was Ebels, Woods and Lange.  This year's group is a little bigger, at least as productive and, with Snikkers outside shot, has added dimensions that were not available then.

If everyone is healthy at the end of the regular season, I will start to allow myself to become cautiously optimistic.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 17, 2008, 05:01:15 pm
WWWRHH - great post.  I had to laugh a bit at your comment about Hope playing small with Warsen and O'Hare - Stacy is 5'10" and Emily is 6'0".  Most DIII teams would love to have that size for their 5.  Heck Jullie Hendersen could play the 5 for most schools - she is 5'11". 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 17, 2008, 09:23:47 pm
An update on Snikkers. The boot will stay through next week. The following week Hope has no Wednesday game so the earliest she could see any game time would be Saturday, February 2 against Kazoo. By then she won't have played for over three weeks so I don't imagine she will get many minutes.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 18, 2008, 08:33:48 am
it scould be a  pretty good game saturday vs albion i wish the game was on the radio for i could listen to the game maybe on live stats
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 19, 2008, 03:31:22 pm
About halfway through in Albion, and #1 is in a battle, trailing 16-9.   Were down 11-2 to start.

http://www.albion.edu/sports/stats/xlive.htm

The livestats board is stuck now, but the Hope women were down 12 to Albion, have now come back to make it 25-20 Albion.  Still stuck though.


Albion 37 Hope 24 at the half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 19, 2008, 04:06:07 pm
About halfway through in Albion, and #1 is in a battle, trailing 16-9.   Were down 11-2 to start.

http://www.albion.edu/sports/stats/xlive.htm

The livestats board is stuck now, but the Hope women were down 12 to Albion, have now come back to make it 25-20 Albion.  Still stuck though.


Albion 37 Hope 24 at the half.

Wow. I expected a tough game but didn't foresee Hope being down 13 at the half! Trouble may be looming!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 19, 2008, 04:19:35 pm
Hope starts the second half on a 12-2 run, including 12 straight.

Albion 39 Hope 36  15 min to go.

All tied 45-45  9 to go
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 19, 2008, 04:41:45 pm
Heck of a turn around this half! Hope they can keep the mo.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 19, 2008, 04:51:18 pm
looks like the livestats are stuck again.  >:(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 19, 2008, 04:52:29 pm
looks like the livestats are stuck again.  >:(

I know! The game is probably over at this point. Real close at least.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 19, 2008, 04:55:42 pm
Any other resources to get a score?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 19, 2008, 04:58:48 pm
Any other resources to get a score?

None, that I have been able to track down. No radio for the game unfortunately.

EDIT: Livestats seems to be working as the clock is going down again.
Didn't jump ahead though. just started up. I wonder if there was a 10 minute delay in the game for some reason??? Hopefully, not an injury or anything.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 19, 2008, 04:59:43 pm
60-54 Hope 3:55
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 19, 2008, 05:05:49 pm
62-60 Hope, 1:12 left
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 19, 2008, 05:09:16 pm
It seems to me that since livestats just stopped for about a 10-15 minute period and then started back up and counted down that something caused the game at Albion to experience a break in the action. Whenever I recall livestats stopping before once it picks back up it jumps ahead to wherever the game is in play.

If my really weak theory is correct I sure hope no one on either team experienced an injury.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 19, 2008, 05:11:16 pm
Looks like Albion is fouling...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: NW Hope Fan on January 19, 2008, 05:13:18 pm
Hearts of CHAMPIONS right there I'll tell ya! Sweet win!!!

Congrats Ladies!!!!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 19, 2008, 05:13:23 pm
Wow, what an escape.   Way to go Dutch!

Hope 65 Albion 62,  Hope now has a 3 game lead in the loss column.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 19, 2008, 05:14:38 pm
Wow, that's a great comeback for Hope. I am sure Coach Morehouse had some very "encouraging" words at halftime to spur on the team.

Two things I notice looking at livestats:
1) It'll be great to have Snikkers back (hopefully). Another scoring threat never hurts.
2) Warsen only took three shots. Hopefully the box score later will reveal whether she just did not shoot or whether she her minutes were limited due to the injury she has been nursing.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 19, 2008, 11:09:01 pm
Calvin handily beat Kazoo today 79-40 and the Lady Knights appear to have solved their offensive woes. They came up with their second straight dominating performance after a series of games when they struggled to score. They shot 31-60 from the floor, including 7-13 from the arc. Harris led with 19, Partridge had 14 and freshman Kacy Cryderman had her second straight double digit game with 10 in just 16 minutes of play. I think Albion is going to regret not recruiting alum Paul Cryderman's daughter to their school.





Hope is going for its 10th consecutive 20 win season, that would be an outstanding accomplishment.

20 wins is a given. The only question I have is "Can the Lady Dutch win 30?"


Halfway there. :( :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 22, 2008, 12:25:29 am
Can anyone ever remember a 3 game lead with less than half the conference season gone?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on January 22, 2008, 10:03:15 am
Nice article in today's Holland Sentinel on the Lady Dutch:

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/012208/localsports_20080122048.shtml
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: wiz on January 22, 2008, 08:22:11 pm
Seems a little curious that neither a Hope nor Calvin player has been named MIAA player of the week this year.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 22, 2008, 09:15:15 pm
Seems a little curious that neither a Hope nor Calvin player has been named MIAA player of the week this year.

Hope is using an 11, sometimes 12, player rotation and it is hard for any player to accumulate the stats needed to get attention in their system.  This is especially true since he team is very unselfish.

It seems that the PoW is most often the best player on an average team that plays two other average teams that week.  The PoWs have not had outstanding games against the Dutch.

I am surprised that Harris (Calvin) has not received the award at least once
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: dumezrules on January 24, 2008, 11:17:42 am
Seems a little curious that neither a Hope nor Calvin player has been named MIAA player of the week this year.

Hope is using an 11, sometimes 12, player rotation and it is hard for any player to accumulate the stats needed to get attention in their system.  This is especially true since he team is very unselfish.

It seems that the PoW is most often the best player on an average team that plays two other average teams that week.  The PoWs have not had outstanding games against the Dutch.

I am surprised that Harris (Calvin) has not received the award at least once


I believe that Hope could have every PoW if those girls played at another school....their top ten could all be All-MIAA...
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 25, 2008, 12:33:14 pm
Has there been any word in the Holland Sentinel or the Holland gossip underworld since Sunday on the status of Snikkers?

An X-Ray showed no break and a bone scan also did not detect any fracture but some swelling is still present. The plan is to keep her foot in a boot the rest of this week and then reevaluate it. Apparently the doctor isn't sure what's going on either but if the swelling subsides Snikkers might be back on the court next week.

Its been over a week since I last heard anything about Snikkers. Does anyone have a medical update on her?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on January 25, 2008, 12:54:02 pm
Has there been any word in the Holland Sentinel or the Holland gossip underworld since Sunday on the status of Snikkers?

An X-Ray showed no break and a bone scan also did not detect any fracture but some swelling is still present. The plan is to keep her foot in a boot the rest of this week and then reevaluate it. Apparently the doctor isn't sure what's going on either but if the swelling subsides Snikkers might be back on the court next week.

Its been over a week since I last heard anything about Snikkers. Does anyone have a medical update on her?

The boot was to come off Wednesday. I haven't heard if she returned to practice yet but she did expect to do so.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 26, 2008, 12:19:07 pm
they said wed night  maybe 4 more weeks then she will be back
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on January 27, 2008, 06:47:41 am
nice comeback from being down at halftime nice game and nice win
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 27, 2008, 04:21:35 pm
nice comeback from being down at halftime nice game and nice win

You know the Hope women keep on turning out victory after victory but they keep starting really slow as well. I think they have had way too many games stay close too long recently. I am sure getting Snikkers back in a few weeks should help some but I am worried that Hope may have some trouble down the road when they meet up with stronger teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 27, 2008, 05:14:21 pm
Slow starts aren't good, but it's not unusualy for the Dutch.  They have had that same characteristic for several years - including in 05-06 and they did pretty good in the tournament that year.   ;D

*date corrected
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on January 27, 2008, 05:19:21 pm
Slow starts aren't good, but it's not unusualy for the Dtuch.  They have had that same characteristic for several years - including in 05 and they did pretty good in the tournament that year.   ;D

They did even better in 2006.  ;D ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: HopeTV on January 28, 2008, 01:46:53 am
For all those Snikkers fans out there she will be back this week. Saturday for sure i have from a very very good source...her family. They have been slow lately but they know that when it needs to be turned on it will be.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 28, 2008, 09:36:37 am
For all those Snikkers fans out there she will be back this week. Saturday for sure i have from a very very good source...her family. They have been slow lately but they know that when it needs to be turned on it will be.

That'd be great news for Hope and Carrie.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 28, 2008, 10:28:30 am
[
You know the Hope women keep on turning out victory after victory but they keep starting really slow as well. I think they have had way too many games stay close too long recently. I am sure getting Snikkers back in a few weeks should help some but I am worried that Hope may have some trouble down the road when they meet up with stronger teams.

I don't think the return of Snikkers will have an impact on how the games start.  Having her back will be an over all positive and create additional rotation options, but her injury is not the root cause of the opponents’ increased first half increased competitiveness.  She is a good ball player with great talent and huge potential upside, but she is not on the first unit and in the most difficult games (Albion and St. Mary's) the second unit played well in the first half.

Although I doubt Morehouse would accept what I am about to say as an excuse, the recent difficulty may have a lot to do with the challenges of playing these teams a second time.  The first time a team plays the Dutch it is hard for them to be prepared for the speed and pressure defense.  The second time around it is a little easier to prepare a game plan that may - at least for a time - neutralize some of their strengths. 

For the rest of the season the Hope game will be the biggest game of the year for the opponent and they will all be “up” for the game.  In reality it is harder for Hope to approach every game with this level of intensity – but that is what the coaches expect and demand.

The first unit has to be aware of what is happening and adjust.  They certainly have been able to do this as the game proceeds.  At St. Mary's it was very difficult to get the ball into the post the first half.  The Belles size was comparable, they were allowed to be very physical and they packed it inside on defense.  The solution turned out to be Boles and Cowen finding the mark on three pointers which in turn began to open the game up a little bit. 

The second unit may be having a little more success in the first half because they can watch what is happening, make mental adjustments and come into the game fresh and counter the opponents’ strategy.

I have to admit that as a fan these slow starts are frustrating.  We would all like to see a 20 point lead at half time.  But I am also impressed that the team keeps their heads, makes the necessary adjustments and comes back to win.

As much as I and others get excited about Hope's post play and depth, we have to remember that everything starts with the guards. On defense they pressure the ball and create turnovers that lead to transition baskets.  The guards handle the ball, and Henderson and Kopke are primarily focused on creating scoring opportunities for the other players.  (I would be more concerned about injuries to either of these two than any other player.) Green can turn a game around with her defense, and Boles and Cowen can alter a game with their outside shooting.  This is a team based program that was very good before the arrival of every player currently on the roster and most likely will continue to be well after the current freshman class graduates.

Finally (sorry for another long post) it is hard to attribute any of the recent “difficulties” to Snikkers' injury.   I have already mentioned the importance of the guards, and the fact that Carrie is on the second rotation.  But the second unit center position has continued to be productive.  Over the last five games Knox has played very good defense, averaged 8.8 points (=Snikkers) and 9.2 rebounds (+3.5).  Which raises the question of what the rotation looks like when Snikkers (statistically the second best rebounder as well as a proven scorer) is healthy.  It is a good problem to have, but I'm sure it is not easy for the coaches to optimally use all of the talent.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 28, 2008, 03:46:18 pm

Finally (sorry for another long post) it is hard to attribute any of the recent “difficulties” to Snikkers' injury.   I have already mentioned the importance of the guards, and the fact that Carrie is on the second rotation.  But the second unit center position has continued to be productive.  Over the last five games Knox has played very good defense, averaged 8.8 points (=Snikkers) and 9.2 rebounds (+3.5).  Which raises the question of what the rotation looks like when Snikkers (statistically the second best rebounder as well as a proven scorer) is healthy.  It is a good problem to have, but I'm sure it is not easy for the coaches to optimally use all of the talent.


I agree completely with your thoughts on Carrie's return. I think she helps because you can never have enough talented, tall post players. But she won't change the fact Hope has been starting slowly. And as you said, Knox has played well in her place.

My concern is that one of these games Hope starts slow and can't turn it on in the second half. The Albion game was dangerously close to that scenario and Calvin has been playing much better recently. I think that is a scary game the second time around.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on January 28, 2008, 05:15:02 pm


DC:

You're right.  Albion and St. Mary's are decent, well coached teams, but probably not as good as what the Dutch will face in the tournament - especially if they have to go through DePauw again.  A slow start against a very good team could determine the outcome of the game.

Without a Wednesday game, I am sure practices will be intense this week and everyone will be challenged to step up their game.

I almost feel bad for Kalamazoo since they have to visit DeVoss on Saturday.

On the other hand, I think it is a good game for Snikkers to come back.  She should be able to take her shots and work on her moves without a lot of pressure. 

Her return is important for a reason that I think has been overlooked.  When all three centers are healthy foul trouble is a minor concern - all can play aggressive defense all of the time.  However, with Lange in foul trouble last Saturday, I thought that Knox felt forced to play defense a little more cautiously than usual.  It looked like there were times she would have normally tried to block a shot, but pulled back in order to avoid a possible foul.   At the very least, it has to be in the back of her mind.

When all three are available, foul trouble on one might close off the option of going with the big lineup, but it is a managable situation.  However, when Lange fouled out at Albion with the score close, I think that Knox fouling out or getting injured would have been a big deal given Albion's size. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on January 29, 2008, 08:04:20 pm
1) I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but in the St. Mary's game, a closely contested contest, the reserves played a total of 90 minutes, compared to 110 minutes for the starters, but outscored the starters, 42 - 40.  This was despite the career high of 27 points scored by Boles.

2) For the year the starters have averaged 35.6 points a year, while the reserves have averaged 42.2 points.  Obviously, some of these games were blowouts where the reserves got a lot of playing time, but still these numbers are very impressive.

3) For a team undefeated in the MIAA and ranked # 1 in the nation, it took 11 weeks before one of its players (Boles) was named MIAA player of the week, and then she had to share it with a Tri-State player.  The emphasis for the women's team is TEAM!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on January 30, 2008, 07:08:07 pm
3) For a team undefeated in the MIAA and ranked # 1 in the nation, it took 11 weeks before one of its players (Boles) was named MIAA player of the week, and then she had to share it with a Tri-State player.  The emphasis for the women's team is TEAM!

No doubt. They really are an impressive group. And some of the other facts you mentioned will have to make the MIAA scared that next year's Hope women may be just as good as this years even with the loss of Boles and Warsen and the other seniors.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on January 31, 2008, 08:58:16 am
3) For a team undefeated in the MIAA and ranked # 1 in the nation, it took 11 weeks before one of its players (Boles) was named MIAA player of the week, and then she had to share it with a Tri-State player.  The emphasis for the women's team is TEAM!

No doubt. They really are an impressive group. And some of the other facts you mentioned will have to make the MIAA scared that next year's Hope women may be just as good as this years even with the loss of Boles and Warsen and the other seniors.

And Boles performance was strong enough that she made team of the week on this site.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 02, 2008, 11:58:26 am
It'll be nice to have the Lady Dutch back in action today and reportedly with the return of Snikkers, thereby, increasing the depth of the bench again.

Hopefully, we'll see a nice quick start from the Dutch instead of our recent, typical slow first halves.

If anyone catches this game instead of heading to Albion I'd appreciate a report later.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 02, 2008, 12:18:50 pm
It'll be nice to have the Lady Dutch back in action today and reportedly with the return of Snikkers, thereby, increasing the depth of the bench again.


I don't believe she is quite ready to play yet today though she may suit up. As I understand it she is likely to see her first game action next week. Up till now--since the boot came off her foot--Snikkers has been limited to doing some low impact conditioning such as running in a pool and biking. I don't think she has even done any practicing with the team other than shooting around. This is a wise move since, with the league regular season crown well in hand, Hope doesn't need to rush her back. I understand that she is more likely to see her first game next week against Tri-State with more significant PT on Saturday against Calvin. Wonderful. :( :'(
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 02, 2008, 02:21:06 pm
It'll be nice to have the Lady Dutch back in action today and reportedly with the return of Snikkers, thereby, increasing the depth of the bench again.


I don't believe she is quite ready to play yet today though she may suit up. As I understand it she is likely to see her first game action next week. Up till now--since the boot came off her foot--Snikkers has been limited to doing some low impact conditioning such as running in a pool and biking. I don't think she has even done any practicing with the team other than shooting around. This is a wise move since, with the league regular season crown well in hand, Hope doesn't need to rush her back. I understand that she is more likely to see her first game next week against Tri-State with more significant PT on Saturday against Calvin. Wonderful. :( :'(

Unfortunately for you OK, that is the same thing I was thinking. She is going to suit up today, and ease her way back in just in time for the Calvin game. I am sure Calvin is going to show up to play a little better than they did last time, so it is good that Hope has tune up games today and wed, and then with the return of Snikkers next Saturday, they should be ready to handle the laday Knights again.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 02, 2008, 03:29:06 pm
Jordyn Boles has tied the career three point record at Hope (currently tied with Bria Ebels) by hitting two 3s in the first half.

Congrats to Jordyn!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 02, 2008, 09:32:58 pm
Jordyn Boles has tied the career three point record at Hope (currently tied with Bria Ebels) by hitting two 3s in the first half.

Congrats to Jordyn!

Finishing that thought, she broke the record with 2 more in the second half.

Big pat on the back to the 1010 in attendance today at DeVos, thats a pretty good crowd for such a matchup.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 03, 2008, 08:33:03 am
a big game saturday vs calvin  maybe a big crowd at the devoss  snickers might be back saturday
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: veragrace on February 05, 2008, 02:05:45 pm
This is a great article on Knox and her stellar contribution to the team in Snikkers absence. 

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/020508/localsports_20080205045.shtml

I like the idea of Courtney and Carrie playing together with Emily at small forward.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on February 05, 2008, 05:46:34 pm
This is a great article on Knox and her stellar contribution to the team in Snikkers absence. 

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/020508/localsports_20080205045.shtml

I like the idea of Courtney and Carrie playing together with Emily at small forward.

So Hope's third string center leads the MIAA in rebounds, while playing a lot less minutes than the other rebound leaders!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on February 05, 2008, 06:10:46 pm
This is a great article on Knox and her stellar contribution to the team in Snikkers absence. 

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/020508/localsports_20080205045.shtml

I like the idea of Courtney and Carrie playing together with Emily at small forward.

So Hope's third string center leads the MIAA in rebounds, while playing a lot less minutes than the other rebound leaders!

Basically the story of their season.

I love watching the woman play almost as much as I love watching their opponents faces in the second half. By that time, they've figured out that they get no rest whatsoever when Hope's 3rd string comes in. Wave after wave of dutch come in and run the other teams ragged. Mo has done a great job with recruiting and developing lots of good athletes. Now if only someone else we know could do just as good... ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: SKOT on February 06, 2008, 11:00:21 am
This is a great article on Knox and her stellar contribution to the team in Snikkers absence. 

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/020508/localsports_20080205045.shtml

I like the idea of Courtney and Carrie playing together with Emily at small forward.

The article mentions Snikkers having a "bone stress reactor."  Can someone explain what this is.    Did they just mean a stress fracture?  Apparently its so secretive that Google doesn't even know what it is.  The only time those 3 words appear in a row on the internet is on the Sentinel web page. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: oldknight on February 06, 2008, 12:59:25 pm
This is a great article on Knox and her stellar contribution to the team in Snikkers absence. 

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/020508/localsports_20080205045.shtml

I like the idea of Courtney and Carrie playing together with Emily at small forward.

The article mentions Snikkers having a "bone stress reactor."  Can someone explain what this is.    Did they just mean a stress fracture?  Apparently its so secretive that Google doesn't even know what it is.  The only time those 3 words appear in a row on the internet is on the Sentinel web page. 

I suspect the Sentinel article means "bone stress reaction" not "reactor." On the gradient scale of least to most serious chronic bone conditions of the foot caused by repetitive use, the labeling goes: bone strain, stress reaction, and stress fracture. These conditions are an overuse injury to any of the many bones of the foot, is exacerbated by regular running on hard surfaces (like a basketball floor) and has been long noticed in soldiers whose training typically involves long marches. The stress fracture is the most serious form of this injury but is a bit of a misnomer since most times there is no actual fracture line even among those diagnosed with this condition. Obviously, there is as much art as science in evaluating the injury and precscribing treatment (rest) and most doctors will be cautious and allow only gradual increases in daily activity in order to avoid a reoccurrence.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 06, 2008, 02:56:19 pm
This is a great article on Knox and her stellar contribution to the team in Snikkers absence. 

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/020508/localsports_20080205045.shtml

I like the idea of Courtney and Carrie playing together with Emily at small forward.

Thats a great idea, but if you put Emily at the three in the second rotation, that means you are leaving DeKuiper, or Cowen on the bench, which I don't think is something you want to do. I woudl say as they are playing right now, if anything you make Emily the 11th player. You need some sort of perimeter presence on the 2nd string, which as hard as emily might try to do, shes not as strong out there as Miranda and Jenny.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: OC_SID on February 06, 2008, 03:40:27 pm
All women's games for tonight have been postponed until tomorrow at 7:30.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: MIdoubleA on February 07, 2008, 03:29:56 pm
So I made this comment in the men's chat and got karma-kicked out of there.

Was anyone else surprised that Ebels (bria) and Winkle weren't anywhere on the Dream Teams that were posted? I figured for all of their accomplishments and accolades (not to mention their basketball prowess) they would be shoe-ins for honorable mention at the very least?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 07, 2008, 04:26:44 pm
So I made this comment in the men's chat and got karma-kicked out of there.

Was anyone else surprised that Ebels (bria) and Winkle weren't anywhere on the Dream Teams that were posted? I figured for all of their accomplishments and accolades (not to mention their basketball prowess) they would be shoe-ins for honorable mention at the very least?

Not really, neither Winkle nor Ebels made the D3hoops.com First Team All-American team.  Fouth for Ebels in 06,  5th for Winkle in 06, and 3rd in 07.  There were alot of women ahead of them.  I don't expect any of the men to make it either.

Shame on you for talking women's basketball in the men's room. ::) ;)
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoVols on February 07, 2008, 05:01:19 pm
So I made this comment in the men's chat and got karma-kicked out of there.

Was anyone else surprised that Ebels (bria) and Winkle weren't anywhere on the Dream Teams that were posted? I figured for all of their accomplishments and accolades (not to mention their basketball prowess) they would be shoe-ins for honorable mention at the very least?
If I recall, Bria wasn't named an All-American until AFTER the team won the national championship and the peeps naming the team felt obligated to put one member of the champs on the team. Not that Brian Morehouse would have minded; he stresses the team concept and that's the way they continue to play. That's why it's so hard for other teams to beat them.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 07, 2008, 05:15:17 pm
Our All-American teams are always named before the championship game, actually. But we'd be foolish not to let our in-person observations of the semifinals play a part. Gordon Mann, who along with Mark Simon and I do the bulk of the decision-making on the women's All-American team, covered the DePauw sectional that year and saw Hope play three times before we named our All-Americans.

But the teams are announced in the pregame show and are written in stone at that time.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 07, 2008, 10:20:08 pm
Another great 2nd half on the road tonight for the Dutch. If only they could show up for the first half, imagine what the scores would look like. Great to see them shoot 65 percent from the floor in the 2nd half to bury the Thunder. Boles had a gutsy performance, playing quite sick, yet still hit 6-9 from behind the arc. Philly scored 17, and Henderson had 8 assists. Great night for the Dutch, who also got Carrie Snikkers back tonight. Go Hope beat Calvin!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 08, 2008, 01:12:42 am
Another great 2nd half on the road tonight for the Dutch. If only they could show up for the first half, imagine what the scores would look like. Great to see them shoot 65 percent from the floor in the 2nd half to bury the Thunder. Boles had a gutsy performance, playing quite sick, yet still hit 6-9 from behind the arc. Philly scored 17, and Henderson had 8 assists. Great night for the Dutch, who also got Carrie Snikkers back tonight. Go Hope beat Calvin!

It should be quite obvious Hope just wears teams out.


calvin vs Hope should be a good game Saturday, Calvin has been playing much better as of late.  They've won 5 of 6 and lost at Albion by only 3 after losing to them by 27 earlier this winter. 

Hope is expecting a pretty big crowd for the game Saturday.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2008, 11:21:15 am
Hope in Around the Nation:
http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 08, 2008, 12:38:34 pm
Hope in Around the Nation:
http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/

Sweet story.  Thanks!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Stinger on February 08, 2008, 12:57:43 pm
Nice props to former Haslett Viking Kaitlyn Kopke.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 08, 2008, 04:25:43 pm
On the side bar to those articles it says..........

.........should Hope’s men’s and women’s basketball teams both be in the Sweet 16 and both in position to host, the women would play on the road. The men’s side gets priority for the Sweet 16 and Elite Eight rounds, with the women being granted first dibs on homecourt for the first two rounds.

This is the exact opposite of what I was told just a few days ago.  Can we get clarification on this.

I was told rounds 1 and 2 the men have prioprity in even years, and the women have priority in odd years...........and that switches for the Sectionals.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 10, 2008, 08:12:32 am
good job on a nice game yesterday  it is had to beleive that it is the last regular seasson game  for the hope seniors 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Preto on February 10, 2008, 08:23:24 am
a big game saturday vs calvin  maybe a big crowd at the devoss  snickers might be back saturday

Oddly, Calvin has Homecoming with their women on the road in Holland.  They usually travel fairly well to DeVos for this game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope81 on February 10, 2008, 10:17:16 am
Regarding the hosting question by sac, the men have priority in even years in the first two rounds.  The women have priority in rounds 3 and 4.  This is per the final four tournament director.  Thus, the #1 team in the nation could be sent on the road if the men are chosen to host.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: GoVols on February 10, 2008, 10:44:06 am
Hope in Around the Nation:
http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/
Funny that Morehouse would say he's coaching “like my hair is on fire" when he did that Matt Lauer thing and kept a short buzz cut to get ready for the impending baldness that's creeping in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: pointlem on February 10, 2008, 01:46:34 pm
Regarding the hosting question by sac, the men have priority in even years in the first two rounds.  The women have priority in rounds 3 and 4.  This is per the final four tournament director.  Thus, the #1 team in the nation could be sent on the road if the men are chosen to host.
On the schedules I recall the women's round 1 being Wednesday and the men's Thursday, with Saturday round 2 games . . . so perhaps only a conflict with round 2? (I'm presuming the NCAA wouldn't consider Saturday afternoon and evening games with separate ticketing.)  Perhaps, though, an undefeated team, if any such is left, might earn a bye for round 1?

And would I be right to think that any team dreaming of being in the Final Four would rather have an opportunity to host rounds 3 and 4 than found 2?
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 10, 2008, 04:42:45 pm
From my experience, just getting to host any NCAA tournament game is pretty cool.  It happens so rarely with todays format that you can't be too picky.


But I'll concede, seeing your team celebrate the win to get you to the Final Four at home is much more fun than doing it on the road.  We've been able to do both twice at Hope, with both the men's and women's teams.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 11, 2008, 04:17:36 pm
It was good to see the Dutch starters play very well on Saturday.  As a unit, it might be their best game this year.

Hope's interior defense was also very good as the linked Holland Sentinel article about Lindsay Lange points out.  After being slowed by foul trouble in a couple of games over the past month (including some "mystery" calls) her last two games have been exceptional. 

Lange's  defense on Harris was outstanding.  It looks like Lange has faced Harris enough over the years to have decoded her inside moves.

http://hollandsentinel.com/stories/021108/localsports_20080211032.shtml

Knox seemed to struggle on offense, but also played sound defense.  Snikkers shot timing was off and she did not seem to have all of her mobility back, but did manage to grab a few boards.  Hopefully, all of the "bigs" will have their games come together at the same time as we near the end of the season.

Congrats to MIAA player of the week Philly Greene - she can contributions in so many areas it is sometimes too easy to overlook some of the things she does.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 11, 2008, 05:53:54 pm
It was good to see the Dutch starters play very well on Saturday.  As a unit, it might be their best game this year.


Interesting to read that. I was only able to check the score on Saturday a few times and didn't listen at all so I can't judge at all. Saturday was just Hope's second win by fewer than 10 points. I know Calvin has been playing much better recently but I wonder what others thoughts on the game were. Should a close home game worry us as we head to the MIAA tourney and a likely match up with Albion or Calvin coming. (I mean as much as the #1, undefeated team ought to worry).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 11, 2008, 06:01:17 pm
Calvin hung with Hope in the first half due to a free throw disparity.  However, the Dutch pulled away in the second half and stretched the lead to 20 pts.  It was in the high teens with just a few minutes to go and the Knights hit some 3 point field goals against the freshman to narrow the score in the last 2 mins.

It really was not as close as the final score appeared and the outcome was never in doubt in the second half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 11, 2008, 06:02:44 pm
Calvin hung with Hope in the first half due to a free throw disparity.  However, the Dutch pulled away in the second half and stretched the lead to 20 pts.  It was in the high teens with just a few minutes to go and the Knights hit some 3 point field goals against the freshman to narrow the score in the last 2 mins.

It really was not as close as the final score appeared and the outcome was never in doubt in the second half.

Thanks for that info. Sadly, one misses those sorts of things when they can only check the score at the end.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 11, 2008, 06:59:49 pm
All MIAA boxscores have running play-by-play.

http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/0209calw.htm
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on February 11, 2008, 08:10:09 pm
Calvin hung with Hope in the first half due to a free throw disparity.  However, the Dutch pulled away in the second half and stretched the lead to 20 pts.  It was in the high teens with just a few minutes to go and the Knights hit some 3 point field goals against the freshman to narrow the score in the last 2 mins.

It really was not as close as the final score appeared and the outcome was never in doubt in the second half.

I was at the game, and after Hope went up 21 points with 7 minutes left the game was never in doubt.   Coach Ross commented about Hope's strong defense after his Calvin team scored their first bucket, a trey, with 37 seconds into the game, and did not score another basket until there was 3:50 left in the first half.  So Hope held Calvin scoreless from the floor for almost 16 minutes.  The Knights ended the half with four baskets, but did outscore Hope by 10 points from the free throw line to finish the half down by only 5 points.

For the game Hope's front line held Marcia Harris to only six points, including only one basket (8 shots).
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 12, 2008, 09:34:54 am
Congrats to the Dutch for their #1 ranking for this week.  I also noted that Howard Payne picked up a couple of 1st place votes from last week with the Dutch at 15 and HP at 10. All I can say is "Ladies, Keep on keeping on!"  :D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 12, 2008, 06:05:18 pm
Congrats to the Dutch for their #1 ranking for this week.  I also noted that Howard Payne picked up a couple of 1st place votes from last week with the Dutch at 15 and HP at 10. All I can say is "Ladies, Keep on keeping on!"  :D

Interesting to see Hope lose two votes during a week they played so well and beat a good Calvin team. Of course none of it matters, win and in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 12, 2008, 07:29:31 pm
Congrats to the Dutch for their #1 ranking for this week.  I also noted that Howard Payne picked up a couple of 1st place votes from last week with the Dutch at 15 and HP at 10. All I can say is "Ladies, Keep on keeping on!"  :D

Interesting to see Hope lose two votes during a week they played so well and beat a good Calvin team. Of course none of it matters, win and in.

Howard Payne has recent victories over tough conference foes Hardin Simmons (16-5) (final four 2006) and ranked McMurry (18 -3) over the past two weeks. 

I hope the lack of comparable competition does not hurt Hope in the tourney.

MIAA is not as tough, although I think Albion is under appreciated.

Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 13, 2008, 10:46:02 am
Congrats to the Dutch for their #1 ranking for this week.  I also noted that Howard Payne picked up a couple of 1st place votes from last week with the Dutch at 15 and HP at 10. All I can say is "Ladies, Keep on keeping on!"  :D

Interesting to see Hope lose two votes during a week they played so well and beat a good Calvin team. Of course none of it matters, win and in.

Howard Payne has recent victories over tough conference foes Hardin Simmons (16-5) (final four 2006) and ranked McMurry (18 -3) over the past two weeks. 

I hope the lack of comparable competition does not hurt Hope in the tourney.

MIAA is not as tough, although I think Albion is under appreciated.



Definitely underappreciated.  At 17-4 with 2 of their losses to the #1 team in the nation (one by only 2 points), this team should be getting more than 10 votes in the poll.  I'm not sure how to explain their other two losses, but I'm sure they will meet Hope again in the MIAA tourney, and Hope had better be on their game.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 13, 2008, 11:36:10 am
Congrats to the Dutch for their #1 ranking for this week.  I also noted that Howard Payne picked up a couple of 1st place votes from last week with the Dutch at 15 and HP at 10. All I can say is "Ladies, Keep on keeping on!"  :D

Interesting to see Hope lose two votes during a week they played so well and beat a good Calvin team. Of course none of it matters, win and in.

Howard Payne has recent victories over tough conference foes Hardin Simmons (16-5) (final four 2006) and ranked McMurry (18 -3) over the past two weeks. 

I hope the lack of comparable competition does not hurt Hope in the tourney.

MIAA is not as tough, although I think Albion is under appreciated.

The numbers (at least Massey's) would say differently.  Massey has Hope's strength of schedule as 67 (out of 432).  Howard Payne is 32 and Thomas Moore (the other unbeaten team) is 96.  Albion is 72.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 13, 2008, 12:12:25 pm
Albion's close away loss to a decent Wartburg team is understandable.

The 19 point loss to Alma three days before their 2 point loss to Hope can only be explaied by the team looking ahead to the Hope game three days later.

I am sure that game was an anomaly, but it may cost the Brits a pool C bid - unless they can get past the Dutch in the conference tourney.  This will be a challenge since Hope will have the home court advantage.  I think Albion deserves a bid, but the MIAA does not typically get two.

The Massey rankings may place Albion's strength of schedule higher than Thomas Moore, but TM is ranked and likely to win their conference and automatically qualify.  Remember, the Massey rankings measure the strength of your opponents. a team  can have a tough schedule and not be ranked if it losses games it shouldn't.
 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 13, 2008, 02:02:11 pm
I don't mean to argue, but the MIAA has gotten two teams into the "big dance" the last 3 years

04/05 - Calvin & Albion

05/06 - Calvin & Hope

06/07 - Calvin & Hope
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 13, 2008, 03:14:30 pm
Great Lakes Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1. Thomas More 18-0 21-0
2. Hope 18-0 20-0
3. DePauw 16-1 19-3
4. Baldwin-Wallace 19-2 19-2
5. Ohio Northern 15-5 16-5
6. Wilmington (Ohio) 14-5 16-5


Awesome, you have got to just love the NCAA
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 13, 2008, 03:17:47 pm
I don't mean to argue, but the MIAA has gotten two teams into the "big dance" the last 3 years

04/05 - Calvin & Albion

05/06 - Calvin & Hope

06/07 - Calvin & Hope

You are right - I forgot about Calvin's bid year before last.

The point I was trying to make was based on Hope's feeling that they needed to win the MIAA tourney to capture a bid last year given their losses to Calvin (2) and Albion.

So in an effort to either clarify my thougths or dig a deeper hole.....

I do not have enough time to research the next statement, so I could be wrong twice in one day (and if so I will try for a third)....but in 2005 didn't Calvin win the MIAA tourney by beating conference champ Albion.  In '06, Calvin's only D3 losses were to Hope, and in '07 Hope won the tourney by beating conference champ Calvin after getting beat by Calvin (2x) and Albion.  In each of the last three years, the MIAA reps were the tourney champ plus the conference champ or a team with losses only to the confernce / tourney champ.

Albion's losses to Wartburg and Alma, in addtion to the losses to Hope, complicates the selection process (assuming Hope wins the final three games).  They are a very good team, but their best chance for a bid is to capture the conference tourney.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 13, 2008, 05:04:02 pm
Congrats to the Dutch for their #1 ranking for this week.  I also noted that Howard Payne picked up a couple of 1st place votes from last week with the Dutch at 15 and HP at 10. All I can say is "Ladies, Keep on keeping on!"  :D

Interesting to see Hope lose two votes during a week they played so well and beat a good Calvin team. Of course none of it matters, win and in.

Howard Payne has recent victories over tough conference foes Hardin Simmons (16-5) (final four 2006) and ranked McMurry (18 -3) over the past two weeks. 

I hope the lack of comparable competition does not hurt Hope in the tourney.

MIAA is not as tough, although I think Albion is under appreciated.

The numbers (at least Massey's) would say differently.  Massey has Hope's strength of schedule as 67 (out of 432).  Howard Payne is 32 and Thomas Moore (the other unbeaten team) is 96.  Albion is 72.

Now I definitely think that Albion is underappreciated.  This week only a max of 10 pollsters showed enough appreciation for a team rated higher than Thomas Moore by Massey to put them in the top 25.  And if any of those who did include Albion ranked them higher than 25, even fewer pollsters showed them any appreciation.  But then...there are probably other conferences with teams that are underappreciated in the opinion polls, so good for Albion that they got 10 votes!   ;D
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 13, 2008, 10:10:09 pm
Another solid road win for the Lady Dutch tonight. Knox came up big off the bench again, and Boles, Henderson, and Greene all had 10 pts and 3 or more assists. Solid game, slow start, but once again taking a 20 point lead in the 2nd half.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: gohope on February 13, 2008, 10:40:07 pm
Aaauuuuggggghhhh!!  :-\

Too much work today. I couldn't go to a game tonight and wasn't near a computer to check things out either.  But a quick glance at the stats, I see that Lindsay Lange got a technical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Lindsay ????  Anyone know what happened??  ???
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 13, 2008, 10:47:23 pm
Hope was just better than Olivet, plain and simple.  Hope got outrebounded, struggled from the line, only shot 36% in the second half and won by 21.  Olivet just couldn't find enough first half defense to keep pace.

Both teams traded runs of 6-10 points in the first half with Hope getting the last one to lead by 10, but the Dutch led all the way.  In the second coach Mo went to the zone, and Olivet found it really hard to get the easier baskets they were able to create in the first half.  Hope was able to isolate Knox down low some in the second, she was the most impressive Dutch tonight.

I've seen Hope play with more energy and enthusiasm, they just seemed a little lacking in that department,  or maybe it was just the cold hearted stare of a team that knows they will win the battle eventually.  They do play with an impressive demeanor.

I've always been sitting up in the cushy seats at DeVos to watch the ladies and you really need to be down low to understand just how much bigger and stronger the Hope women are.   Hope was very physical and Olivet didn't like that much, but they can be.......its just wave after wave of 6-1, 6-2, 6-3 coming at you.  Every pass is met with a defender quickly, just not much space to operate out there for the opposition.   I'll also add, Hope has some pretty clever basketball players.

Hope quietly clinched at least a piece of the MIAA title tonight, which is now their 3rd in 4 years and 7th in 9.  Saturday they'll go for the outright title in front of the home fans.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 13, 2008, 10:50:17 pm
Aaauuuuggggghhhh!!  :-\

Too much work today. I couldn't go to a game tonight and wasn't near a computer to check things out either.  But a quick glance at the stats, I see that Lindsay Lange got a technical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Lindsay ????  Anyone know what happened??  ???

Worst technical foul ever..............hard foul underneath by Olivet, Lange turned and pushed the ball into the side of her opponent with both hands on the ball.  Never said a word, ball never left her hands.  That was it.............I believe the ref was trying to see more than was there.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: AlwaysHope on February 13, 2008, 10:52:49 pm
Another solid road win for the Lady Dutch tonight. Knox came up big off the bench again, and Boles, Henderson, and Greene all had 10 pts and 3 or more assists. Solid game, slow start, but once again taking a 20 point lead in the 2nd half.

"Knox came up big" is almost an understatement.  She leads the Flying Dutch with 11 rebounds (5 more than Greene) and 11 points in only 14 minutes of playing time!  WOW!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Flying Dutch Fan on February 14, 2008, 03:35:02 pm
Just for the fun of it, I looked at poitns and rebounding for the Dutch , and calculated what they would be averaging in 40 minutes of playing time.  Knox would be at 19.7 points and 19.4 rebounds.  Snickers would be at 20.4 points and 13.8 rebounds. 
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: mjfasteenwolf on February 14, 2008, 05:03:26 pm
What are the odds, if any of Hope hosting the first round of the NCAA. They are ranked 2nd in the region right now behind Thomas Moore, but if they would move into 1st, and Hopes men had to travel, would the Dutch have a chance at hosting? Someone with more knowledge on this topic please fill me in.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2008, 05:20:15 pm
Yes -- remember there are essentially two regionals for each of the eight regions so two teams in the GL rankings could easily host on the first weekend.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: hope1 on February 15, 2008, 06:41:48 am
that would be nice  i hope a lot of fans show up saturday it is the seniors last regular seasson home game saturday
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Erm Schmigget on February 15, 2008, 11:49:52 am
that would be nice  i hope a lot of fans show up saturday it is the seniors last regular seasson home game saturday

This weekend is a men's/women's double-header.  With this being the last home game for the women, I would expect it to be parents' day, possibly also for the men.  Either way, if you have general admission seats, you may want to get there early.

Women's JV:         1pm
Women's Varsity: 3pm
Men's JV:              5:15pm
Men'sVarsity:        7:30pm

In the past these have been a one ticket for all games affair.  No reason for me to think otherwise this time around.  Also, the women will be observing the WCBA's Think Pink program to raise awareness about breast cancer, so wear pink if ya got it!
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 16, 2008, 12:24:19 pm
Hope is honoring its 4 Sr's today, and if they aren't.........at least I am, and wow what Seniors.

Jordyn Boles, Julie Henderson, Stacey Warsen and Lindsay Lange.

These four ladies have combined to play 401 games and have started 319 of them.

They've accumulated a record of 101-9, including 56-5 in MIAA play.  3 MIAA Championships, 2 MIAA Tournament Championships, 2008 will be their 3rd NCAA appearance, and of course were part of the 2006 National Championship team.


Some notable records..............
Jordyn Boles is already the schools all-time leading 3 point shooter, and she will likely finish as one of the top 5 scorers in school history.  She will also finish in the top 10 in assists and will likely finish #2 in games played behind teamate Julie Henderson.

Julie Henderson will likely finish as the all-time leader in games played, and needs just 6 steals to become Hope's all-time leader.

For four years now, Boles and Henderson have started every game for the Flying Dutch, and for all but 1 game in the last 3 years, Boles, Henderson and Warsen have started every game.

Well done ladies.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: sac on February 16, 2008, 03:57:41 pm
Livestats is stuck for the women's game

its Hope 50 Adrian 34 at the half

FINAL  Hope 88 Adrian 65
http://www.miaa.org/wbb/stats/0708/0216adrw.htm

double/double for Snikkers in 14 minutes of action.  :o
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: Oval on February 16, 2008, 10:53:48 pm
Hope 88, Adrian 65
Albion 71, Alma 53
Saint Mary's 71, Kalamazoo 39
Calvin 71, Olivet 69 ... whoa
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: WWWRHH on February 17, 2008, 05:07:05 pm
Dutch posters have been pretty quite considering "our" team wrapped up the conference champoionship and home court advantage for the MIAA tournament.

Although expected, it was a dominating performance and an important milestone!  I found it encouraging that so many players played well, and the second unit had a couple of great sets after what I thought were a couple of games where they were not as effective on offense as the starting group.  Yesterday the six second rotation players scored a combined 46 points.

Another very encouraging sign was the performance of the big players.  They all had good days at the same time.  Knox and Snikkers both scored 10, Lange 8.  The forwards were also solid  with Warsen chipping in 7 and O'hare 4.  If the third unit which played the last ten mins. is considered, the 4 scored by both Kutney and Bruinsma, brings the 4/5 position scoring to 47 points.  Adrian had a little size on the roster, but their posts were not as fast or strong.

It looked like Knox and Snikkers are beginning to figure out how to play together and work off the others game.  They played two complete rotations together (Knox missed some minutes late in the first half due to picking up her second foul) and in those 10 mins outscored Adrian by 26 points and controlled the paint.  Good post players seem to be a rare commodity in D3, and if all can continue to play well it will give the Dutch a big advantage in the post-season.

It might be good to face Albion and St. Mary's in the confernence tourney since their inside game will provide the Dutch the biggest challenge.

Congratulations to Hope's swim teams for great conference meets.  The men finished #1 and the women #2.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 17, 2008, 09:16:08 pm
Dutch posters have been pretty quite considering "our" team wrapped up the conference champoionship and home court advantage for the MIAA tournament.


While every game matters dare I suggest that at this point the "regular season" seems rather mundane and more of a chore than anything. An undefeated season is great but the real excitement now is waiting for the MIAA tourney.
Title: Re: MIAA
Post b