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Posting Up (Division III basketball) => Men's Basketball => Central Region => Topic started by: siwash on February 10, 2005, 01:32:17 pm

Title: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: siwash on February 10, 2005, 01:32:17 pm
Feb. 12  <BR>Illinois C. at Grinnell...GC  <BR>Monmouth at Lake Forest...MC  <BR>Lawrence at St. Norbert...LU  <BR>Carroll at Ripon...RC  <BR> <BR>Feb. 16  <BR>Carroll at Beloit...CC  <BR>Knox at Grinnell...KC  <BR>Illinois C. at Lake Forest...LFC  <BR>Ripon at St. Norbert...RC  <BR> <BR>Siwash
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeff p on July 28, 2005, 12:24:33 pm
Roop-
Local talent should help feed the stands a bit. I hope it works!

Gregory-
101 at the lake and 106 in Muscatine when we got there at 3:30. 99 in Grinnell upon arrival at 6:00. The tar was dripping out from underneath the shingles on our farmhouse when we got home!

AM-
"that girl" tells a similar story about falling asleep on a bus and, upon awakening, finding herself in unfamiliar territory. She thought she recognized a building and started walking-11:00 at night. Wrong building, and lots of attention given to a lone 23 year old woman walking. She said she just walked as if she knew what she was doing and why she was there and emerged unscathed at a cab stand. She says she saves her sleeping for the L now-At least at night she is usually northbound, but she has made it all the way to the end of the brown line way more than once!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on July 28, 2005, 03:55:46 pm
24 hours from now and I will be signing papers on my new (to me) wheels. The OSHA Violator is dead, long live the OSHA Violator. Does anyone need an 85 Crown Victoria ? 105,000 actual miles and it rides great. You won't pass many gas stations but you will get to them very fast and in comfort. I take PayPal.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on July 28, 2005, 04:15:20 pm
JeffP - I hope you're right about local kids bringing more fans to the games. I also hope that translates into the concession stand preparing more than 5 hot dogs at a time. They always have plenty of gum and candy bars, but I don't want gum and candy bars. I want a soda, a dog (or three) and I don't want to wait 10 minutes for it and miss the start of the second half.

It will be nice to see somebody from Beloit play for BC again. Not to disregard Manuel Fergus but he moved there from Texas while in high school. I know CJ Tubbs dad, on a sort of "Hi how you doing" basis, but so does everyone in/from Beloit I think. Charlie is pretty well known there. He's about as close to a celebrity cop as you can get.

Don't know anything about the other recruits really, although getting someone from Sun Prarie (northside of Madison basically) is a real plus. Same high school conference as Beloit Memorial and there are always a number of D1 prospects in that league.

Walworth-Bigfoot always plays good competition and the Orfordville kids have the benefit of playing together already. Should be interesting in two years.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Downtown on July 29, 2005, 12:14:13 am
A question from the WIAC.

Seeing that this year, Oshkosh kicks off there season against Lawerence, how is Lawerence going look this upcoming season?

Plus, does Josh Hinz still play for Beloit? I remember back at good ole Fort High he lead my high school to State in 2000. Honestly, with how much talent he has, perhaps he should've went to a WIAC school. Oh well, perhaps those recuirts you were talking about will help him out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on July 29, 2005, 01:27:02 am
That's a very sound rule of thumb, AMc, but it only works if you're on the North Side. If you're on the South Side, I definitely do not recommend walking to the lake first and then walking north.

Jeff, tell your daughter to always call a cab or a friend who has a car if she's by herself and she doesn't know where she is in the city. The longer she's here the less likely she'll be to have a predicament like that one (or AMc's), but in the meantime the sound policy is "better safe than sorry" for a woman in the city. And a cell phone is a must for urbanites for any number of emergency-related reasons -- as I keep telling my dopey younger brother who refuses to get one.

Nothing wrong with falling asleep on the Brown Line, though. I do it all the time on my way home from work! Of course, my stop's the last stop on the line, anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: badgerboy on July 29, 2005, 02:35:53 am
Mr Downtown

LU should be solid.  They have almost their entire frontline back.  They did lose their starting guards to graduation, but appear to have had a strong recruiting class.  Should be a good battle as LU goes for 3 in a row against Oshkosh.

Looks to me like Oshkosh should be WIAC favorites this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: AMcClary on July 29, 2005, 08:04:51 am
Gregory -  

Aside from a trip to the old Comiskey park for a game and one trip to the Science and Industry museum, I'm not sure I ever traveled to the South Side during my 2.5 years living in Chicago. So, while I agree with your point, the rule as stated worked for me.  

That said, I seem to remember thinking about taking the el south and walking east to the S&I museum, but after the C-G incident, it seemed like a (MUCH) better idea to take the el down to the Loop and then pick up a bus on Michigan Avenue.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeff p on July 29, 2005, 09:19:46 am
Gregory-
"that girl" has had a cell phone attached to her ear for 8 years now, and she is MUCH more aware of her surroundings. She got attacked by a bag lady early on  while in a great neighborhood so she learned quickly. She doesn't post here during the off season, but she does read, so I'm sure she will take your warning to heart. Better coming from someone other than her father. :-)

As early as she has to go to work, you two probably pass each other on the Brown Line every morning!

BTW, the play she is in just got a "Critics Picks" mention in the Windy City Times. It was fun to see it sandwiched between plays at the Theatre Building and The Steppenwolf!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on July 29, 2005, 04:58:04 pm
Mr. Downtown - Yes, Hinz is still at Beloit, he will be a Senior this year. I don't know if he would be as much of a stand out performer in the WIAC but he did have a few D1s looking at him. He chose Beloit for the opportunity to play right away and I don't know if he could have done the same in your league.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Downtown on July 31, 2005, 06:11:45 pm
probably not, and seeing that Beloit is a private school, and even though they are not supposed to give athletic scholarships, im sure Hinz got his fair share of grants to go there. (Seeing that it roughly costs 25,000 dollars a year to go there) and going to high school with him, and having my valvictorian of my class go there (as she had close to a 4.0 all through high school), I can pretty much assure you that he didn't have the grades either (not saying he's stupid, but seriously, its really hard to get into Beloit!). Thats why I was wondering why he didn't go to a school in the WIAC, in which he could have easily gotten into the majority of them, and the price range (around 10,000 dollars a year) is a LOT lower then Beloit's.  

Trust Roop, there are plenty of school Hinz would have played for right away (LaCrosse, Oshkosh at the time, Eau Claire, Superior to name a few).

Speaking of Oshkosh, yes Oshkosh has to be the favorite this year in the WIAC. Of course, no UW-
Whitewater fan would say that (well, very few acknowledge that)) but everyone in the WIAC agrees that Oshkosh is the favorite.

If I had to place Oshkosh according to the nation poll...don't be surprised if they are in the top 15 starting the year. This team, has an chance to do some damage in the tournament. They might not have Kaslow nor Bennett like Point did the past two seasons, but this starting line up is more complete then Point's. I really do think that Oshkosh can be easily an elite 8 team, with an outside chance of making to the final four/championship game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan 2000 on July 31, 2005, 06:22:02 pm
I hope TVD is working hard this summer planning for the season.  Anything less than the WIAC championship will be a dissapointment.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on July 31, 2005, 11:39:38 pm
Oshkosh, LaCrosse, Eau Claire and Superior are all much farther away from Ft. Atkinson than is Beloit. Although I don't know how much that factored into his decision, if at all.

While it is difficult to get into Beloit, it isn't as hard to succeed there academically after you make it in. I grew up there and have had more than one student tell me that. That goes all the way back to when it was only $8,000 a year to go there.

What aid he gets I don't know and really don't worry too much about. I don't want to speak for anybody but I've had brief conversations with some family members of his and they strike me as the type that can probably afford the tuition anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 02, 2005, 06:14:48 am
According to their website Beloit only plays a 21 game schedule this year. Since 12 are home games I can't complain about that, but a 33 day lay off in Dec-Jan seems a bit unusual. Are they still trying to add games or possibly going to an as yet to be determined tournament somewhere??? Perhaps a double secret D1 exhibition tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old School on August 03, 2005, 02:06:47 am
Not that I know anything about anything, but I wouldn't think a team would release an incomplete schedule.  Of course, like I said, what do I know? :-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on August 03, 2005, 06:03:11 pm
Beloit is playing in Huntington Beach, California over New Years, those 2 games are not on the schedule.  Great to have some sizeable recruits.  I saw Horton play in high school, and he should take a starting spot, probably over Fieck. He's big, wide and pretty athletic.  Will be good to have some reliable, talented bench come in.  Last couple years, the bench was pretty bare! Hinz will be a recordbreaker at Beloit this year.  Don't think he would've done that at any WIAC schools, and he's going there cheaper than at a state school.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 04, 2005, 05:47:16 am
I saw the Huntington trip on the womens schedule so it's not surprising that the men are going too.

Size and depth will definitely help. Injuries pretty much made them a 7 man team the second half last year and two of those 7 are gone now. Hopefully some others can put up some points so Hinz won't be the focus of opposing defenses. I'd like to see him get 2000 for his career. MWC tournament and NCAAs are probably too much to ask for this year however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeff p on August 08, 2005, 04:04:22 pm
Looks like we will have our first head-to-head system game on November 22 when MacMurray comes to Grinnell College for a game. Sounds like a lot of fun to me!

Also heard that Grinnell may play the Australian National "Under 20" team in an exhibition game Thanksgiving weekend. This comes from the fella that books the Austalian teams into the US (a Grinnell native). He is very excited about the possibility and expects a very high scoring game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 08, 2005, 04:19:17 pm
Word from some in the know is that this is a "make or break" year at Beloit.  Very highly thought of coach may be waiting in the wings.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 08, 2005, 08:19:01 pm
Are his initials S.B. ????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 08, 2005, 10:48:05 pm
No, though that would be an interesting choice and he shoulbe available at the end of this year
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 08, 2005, 11:21:19 pm
He wouldn't stay long even if he did. I think he'll have a D1 job in his very near future.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 09, 2005, 08:54:13 pm
Roop,

If we are talking about the same person then I assume you mean a low level assistant job at a D1 school.  I would be stunned to see him follow one of his players so I'm not sure where he would end up.  He certainly has the "basketball mind" for D1
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan 2000 on August 09, 2005, 09:38:20 pm
Sal Bando is not going to be coaching Division 1 basketball.  Roop, you know better than that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 10, 2005, 06:17:26 am
Establishing a "program philosophy" really isn't required in high school if you ask me. However, it sounds like something that would look good on a coaching resume if someone was looking to find their way into the college ranks. Having restored a struggling team to prominence in only 3 years doesn't look bad on a coaching resume either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 10, 2005, 09:48:14 am
We might be talking about a different SB.  The one I am thinking of has been in place longer than three years though the major success has come recently.

The original name I heard mentioned is much more widely known.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 10, 2005, 08:18:56 pm
Dolph,

The email in your profile doesn't work but mine does. Tell me who your "SB" is. I've lived away from the Beloit area for so long that I doubt I will know who your SB is anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 11, 2005, 01:21:35 am
Roop,

The SB I was speaking of could hit a good 3 wood (if he golfs) and land near the BC campus (providing he clears the river.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 11, 2005, 06:18:53 am
OK, I think we might be talking about the same SB again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan 2000 on August 11, 2005, 05:30:28 pm
SB ?  WTF ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 12, 2005, 04:05:33 pm
Sorry Titan 2000. It isn't my scoop so I can't reveal who SB is. Even if the one I'm thinking of is wrong.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 15, 2005, 11:25:14 am
The SB we have been speaking of is the current head coach at Beloit Memorial.  He is an excellent coach and should have a great future but he is not the person I have heard mentioned if the position should open up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 15, 2005, 03:58:08 pm
Would the rumor have anything to do with the family that operates a local bus company perhaps????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on August 15, 2005, 04:20:31 pm
Perhaps this speculation would best be carried on in private emails, in respect for current coaches and players.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: "The Roop" on August 15, 2005, 05:46:57 pm
digs,

Rumors start because there is usually more than one problem. I seriously doubt that the chat of the past week will get anyone fired. It has been innocent speculation and nothing more.

The problem at Beloit in recent years has not been coaching staff as much as it has been administration. Fire them. I think a lot of people will be much happier. MWC restrictions don't help either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on August 15, 2005, 10:32:30 pm
"I seriously doubt that the chat of the past week will get anyone fired"

I too doubt that the posts on this board will have more of an effect on any decision than a 12-34 record over the past two sesons will.  Or for that matter One appearance in the MWC tournament in seven years.

Roop, no blaming the administration this year.  The players they wanted in appear to have (within reason) gotten in. As for the MWC restrictions, they might explain why Beloit can no longer compete with Whitewater but not why they can't compete with Lawrence or Ripon.

This years Beloit team could and should be very good.  If they are, this is all a moot discussion.  If they are not, things could be interesting
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 16, 2005, 08:01:40 am
Wow! Is this new site cool or what?
Congratulations, Pat. It looks great even if I am still freakin' lost!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 16, 2005, 01:07:04 pm
If it makes you feel better, I'm a little lost too. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 16, 2005, 04:06:37 pm
I can still blame the administration until the season starts, that's only fair  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 20, 2005, 09:37:51 am
Thanks, Roop.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on August 27, 2005, 08:17:11 am
Just heard that Grinnell may have lost a transfer at the last second-literally-who could have put them in the NCAA Tourney. Cold feet, but an understandable warm heart tor his current institution kept him away. GC may make it quite a bit farther this year anyway from what I hear about the pickup games taking place! :-)

That so-called "afront to the reputation of DIII basketball"; ie, the televised GC vs BC game didn't hurt recruiting one little bit, folks.

Mr Coleman- after a bit of time now I can tell you I think the changes you have made are top-notch! Thanks for your hard work!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the_game on August 28, 2005, 06:52:48 pm
BC  with  a  quality  hire  on  the  women's  basketball  side.  Anything  less  than  a  tournament  apperance  would  be  a  disapointment.  The  pieces  are  there.   

Same  goes  for  the  BC  men.  Anything  less  then  a  tournament  apperance is  a  disapointment.  Make  no  mistake  about.  That  statement  the  past  few  seasons  was  just  simply  rhetoric.  This  year  it's  the  TRUTH.  An  All  American,  all  conference  performer,  and   a 3  year  starter  returning  is  enough to finish  in the  top  four  if  not  2  or  1.  If  any size  and  another  respectable  ballhandler  was  added  as  someone  noted  this  team  could  get  off  to  a  fast  start  like  the  2001-2002  squad.   The  issue  for  the  2006  team  will  be  mental.  Will  they  truly  believe  the  are  suppose  to  and  can win?  That  losing  culture  needs  to  be  squashed.     Will  it????????     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 29, 2005, 11:17:05 am
Game,

As much as I love the Bucs I have no aspirations of them making the conference tournament this year. 9-14 is as likely to happen as post season play is. Give it two years and they should be a serious contender again. For now let Hinz get 2000 points for his career and I will be happy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the_game on August 29, 2005, 03:17:27 pm
If thats the case,  that will be  the same  approach  the  team  has  taken  since  Hinz  got  to  BC.  Let him  get  his.  If  they  do  finish  9-14  something  is  certainly  wrong.  13  wins  is  the  highest  total  in  the  Youngblood  era.  That  must  be  eclipsed  this  season!! 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 29, 2005, 06:50:22 pm
What's with the two spaces between every word? That's very difficult on the eyes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on August 29, 2005, 11:08:46 pm
...not to mention game's newly calloused space bar thumb.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on August 30, 2005, 04:33:05 pm
I don't know who they are playing in California yet but after looking at the rest of their schedule Beloit would need 18 or 19 wins to be a higher seed in the conference tournament. I just can't see them doing that this year. Realistically I think 15 wins is about all anyone should expect and I don't think that will amount to enough conference wins to make it in.

Lets shoot for .500 this year and build on that in the future.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 03, 2005, 08:56:06 am
Found out today from a player that one of Grinnell's 1st year players left school after 3 days. Not sure why, but we all know that Grinnell can be a daunting place even (especially?) after high school academic success.  Also, one of last years 'top three rotation' guards transfered to another school right after the end of basketball season second semester last year for unknown reasons. I wish the best for these young men and hope they find what they are looking for.

It still doesn't appear that Grinnell will be terribly weakened by these events; the pick up games have apparently been barn burners!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 04, 2005, 04:25:28 pm
Just a bit about Grinnell'w schedule-
before it can officially be released it has to be approved by the college faculty. That should happen this next week. At that point the full schedule should be listed elsewhere on this website and certainly on the Grinnell College Website.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 05, 2005, 04:51:35 pm
Does the faculty approve where the students can go for coffee at Grinnell as well? 

I am confused as to all the administrative interference.
 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 06, 2005, 07:45:19 am
Just a rubber stamp rule from days gone by. :-)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on September 06, 2005, 12:20:55 pm
Just trying out the new board here.  Thank goodness I remembered my password!  I see there are a lot of fun new graphics here that certainly will keep Steve Cool busy come roundball time.

But for now, it's over to pigskin land. 

"Monmouth Football in 2005!"    ;D

p.s.  Jeff P, I tried to email you via your profile address and got the ol' undeliverable message.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 06, 2005, 12:46:20 pm
Scottie- the one in the current profile should work! All the junk stuff is getting through anyway! Post up again if it still won't work. Not sure what I can do about it, Hell I can barely turn on a computer much less troubleshoot why an Email address won't work!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 06, 2005, 05:18:39 pm
Scottie-I can verify that JeffPs email address does indeed work. However, it is Yahoo so there is no guarantee that it will work all the time.

JeffP-You don't need to know anything about computers OS X will take care of everything for you. All hail the continuum.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 08, 2005, 06:07:00 pm
I am taking it up the ass on the WIAC board.  Looking for some TLC here.  My karma is way too low and it is damaging my self esteem.

Any assistance is appreciated.

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on September 10, 2005, 01:06:17 am
My condolences to Lawrence University and it's community after the death of Ghanian and LU sophomore soccer player Kwabena Buanya.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 21, 2005, 07:56:47 pm
Will everyone who thinks Ripon will be an average team this year please give me a karma point so I can get back off this ledge ?  And if you think their coach will look like Mr. Rogers, give me another point.  I should be positive in a week.

Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: True Basketball Fan on September 21, 2005, 08:56:08 pm
I would help you if I could (not enough posts...yet), because I agree with you about Ripon.  Because of my agreement with you, that probably explains why my karma sucks too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on September 22, 2005, 11:31:08 am
I wouldn't count Ripon out just yet there boys.  They still have the ONLY sophomore to make the all-conference list in Bo Johnson, an up-and-coming center that has potential to be dominant in Brian Schmitting, a quicker than the dickens point guard in David McMullen, and Bob Gillespe, who always has his teams ready.  I wouldn't count these guys out until someone takes Ripon out.

Also how do you give someone karma points??? :-\

RC lives for Bon Jovi?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on September 22, 2005, 09:57:41 pm
RC Lives For Bon Jovi ?

What does that mean?  I suspect they will carve that in the front of the Main Hall at Ripon College sometime soon.  I'm sure the Board of Trustees will approve.

BTW, did all those players you mentioned remain is school?  I thought one or two of them were flunking out.  That was the 3/2005 rumour.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on September 23, 2005, 09:00:56 am
Well....it was suppose to say "RC lives for Bon Jovi." and not have a question mark.  And you wouldn't get it if you haven't played for Coach Gilespe.

Also the only question would be David McMullen cause I haven't talked to him since last season's ball season.....but I know for a fact that Schmitting and Bo are back cause I saw them last weekend when I went to visit.

How do you give or take away karma points or whatever that is?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on September 26, 2005, 01:44:53 pm
If anyone wants to argue that BC won't make the top 4, let me know.  That Hinz kid is a STUD!!  With the new size coming in, Hinz should be able to do alot more scoring.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 26, 2005, 03:06:45 pm
"If anyone wants to argue that BC won't make the top 4, let me know"

1)  History of underachieving with teams as or more talented than the one they will put on the floor this year

2)  Questionable guard play

3)  Will rely on first year players for almost all of their reserve minutes


This team should be better than the past two years (3 MWC wins in 03-04 and 5 in 04-05.) However, each of the past two years it has taken 10 wins to finish in the top 4.  Can they get there?  Maybe.  The conference however has not sat still while Beloit has added depth.  Look for several other teams to improve as well.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on September 26, 2005, 03:41:02 pm
Without a doubt other teams will improve from last year.  Beloit will be one of those because of the fact they can get Hinz out of the post position where he will be able to showcase all of his skills.  He will be able to do things with the ball that will open space up for the younger players to step right in a help out where need be.  Yes the guard play will is always a question, but the transfer they brought in will definitely help.  I just see them making a head turning move this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 26, 2005, 05:38:00 pm
"Yes the guard play will is always a question, but the transfer they brought in will definitely help."

Which transfer is that?  The two that I am aware of are both posts.  The only guard I know of is the freshman from Big Foot.

The current regime has missed the playoffs with rosters more talented than this one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 26, 2005, 06:43:08 pm
Featuring a MWC player on the second team.

Congratulations to Mr Braier it seems like ony yesterday I was watching him help Tosa East beat Vincent in the state high school tournament:

Street & Smith's Preseason All-America Team:

First

Keelan Amelianovich, Illinois Wesleyan
Adam Dauksas, Illinois Wesleyan
Tyler Rhoten, Trinity (Conn)
Justin Wansley, Randolph-Macon
Tyler Winford, Mississippi

Second

Chris Braier, Lawrence
Sekani Francis, Lehman
Cedric Isom, East Texas Baptist
Kyle Myrick, Lincoln (Pa)
Daniel Russ, Wittenberg
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on September 28, 2005, 08:42:37 am
Dolph,

I feel it was way too long ago that Braier was a freshman.  To me it seems that Braier should have graduated......but granted that it seems that way to me because he has been terrorizing the rebounding in the MWC since he came into it.  Also grabbing just like 70 rebounds a game.  (perhaps some but not much exaggeration)

But all kidding aside that is a big accomplishment....Congrats to Braier.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on September 28, 2005, 12:06:21 pm
Braer is premed too, didn't I read someplace? That would make his placement a tremendous accomplishment IMHO.

Congrats frome here as well!

Found out we will get our first official look at GC men on October 15 (I think) when they host a "midnite madness" shootaround on the first official day of practice. That should be great fun  for all of us jonesin' for a look.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on September 28, 2005, 03:59:11 pm
Yep..Bopper is Pre-med.

I'm looking forward to another good season of basketball, unfortu nately i'll be watching from afar, but I hope to get to some games this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on September 28, 2005, 08:52:37 pm
Dolph

BC did get a very good hard nosed 2 guard transfer. He will be a big help. He's not tall but very built strong body. He can shot very well too. The freshman guard is the 1st true point that BC has had in a long long time. He's the real deal. If he doesnt crack the starting job (moving Towns to the 2) he would be the 1st guard off the bench. BC is young at the reserves but they are way more talented than the reserves of the past several years with some size also. I'd love to see em make the tourny. I think they may have a good shot. Best of luck to all the MWC teams this year...it should be fun.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on September 28, 2005, 10:27:14 pm
Thanks D3fan.

Sounds like Beloit will have a lot of new faces this year.  Did anyone who saw time last year not come back (or not go out?)

Also, anyone else have updates on incoming players for other schools in the MWC?   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on September 30, 2005, 01:38:39 pm
Jon Allen and Manny Fergus saw significant playing time last year.  And Ted Serafini saw som e as well.  Jon played alot at the point guard spot, but this new kid should step in nicely.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hawk Sighting on September 30, 2005, 04:46:40 pm
Early, i can tell you that David is back at Ripon.  He will be leaving shoe treds on the courts all season.  I agree with you early, the guys that you have named are excellent athletes and will help with Ripon working its way to the NCAA tourny.  I believe i heard that they have also brought in some very top notch freshman to help out the program.  Looking forward for this season, i think that around the conference its going to be a battle.

And i agree what are these karma points about?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on September 30, 2005, 07:05:46 pm
OK, I'll bite...............

I do believe that this recruiting year has given Beloit great upside potential, however, it's asking a lot from incoming players to expect the TEAM to make the MWC Tournament. Making the conference tournament and losing the opening night would accomplish nothing other than breaking a long streak of non-appearances. Too much history surrounding the program to give much applause for that.

When the MWC Tournament is a given each year and the likelihood of winning in the NCAAs is not in question, then I will believe Beloit is back at the level they should be. That won't happen this year. Granted they have only won once in the history of the D3 Tournament, but the seeding criteria is different these days. With a good season they shouldn't have to play a Final Four Team in the early rounds anymore.

Before everybody says "Hey, The Roop" Beloit has won several of games in the NCAA tournament. Let me say that I am only counting wins when they have advanced. Winning regional consolation games doesn't really count for, or prove, anything. They beat William Penn in 1981 for their only "advancement" in the D3 Tournament.

The only time a consolation game was important to Beloit was the 1948-1949 season when they finished 3rd in the N.I.T. Which was the National Championship of the time.
 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 03, 2005, 03:59:32 pm
7 freshman this year?? Administration starting to take a turn. New AD really getting get it done.

BC has to finish in the top four. Talent and experience is there in BC's top 4.
Yes the talent is not as rich as the 02' or 03 teams that underachieved, but it should be good enough for the 2006 MWC.  Hinz is a top 20 player in the country if not more. Hendry and the freshman posts should allow hinz to fully display his skills which somebody already mentioned. This new point doesn't have to be very good. This team needs shooters to stretch the floor to allow Hinz and Hendry to operate. If the freshman gets significant minutes at the point then Towns and/or Bysted has to be the automatic knockdown from the perimeter. This team, as we know of now, doesn't have outstanding off the dribble guys. So they must play off the ability of Hinz. Yes, he will go down as one of the top players in BC history, unfortunately the team has not yet fully utilized his abilities. 22 wins in 3 year Hinz era. For once the schedule will allow BC to get off to a respectable start. Rack of home games to start could build momentum. Everyone associated with program knows anything less than  tourney appearance is seriously a disapointment.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 03, 2005, 08:14:44 pm
The Game,

The problem at Beloit has not been the offense in recent years. Their glaring inability to play defense has killed them and Hinz has been part of that. They've been playing 4 on 5 for a long time. That won't get it done.

8-8 is the best they will do in conference this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 03, 2005, 11:20:01 pm
The problem with putting too much faith in Beloit's recruiting class this year is two fold.

First, teams like Monmouth and Knox that finished well ahead of Beloit last year  but still missed the tournamnent return almost all of their top talent (still hoping for some info on new first year players).  These teams will be better this year than last IMO and to assume that the first year players at Beloit will somehow vault them past these teams (let alone catch the 4 who did make the tournament ) is to put a great deal of faith in players who have yet to see their first college action. 

Second, while Hinz is a true talent, this team and group of upper classmen has yet to show that they can consistently compete at the higher levels of the MWC.  They have played some excellent individual games but have not shown the toughness needed to produce a 10-6 type record needed to make the tournament.  If Towns does indeed move to the 2 full time then the new point had better be very good since there will be even less depth in the ranks of upper class guards than they had last year.   


Nothing against the recruits Beloit has landed.  Size has been an issue for years and this appears to be beggining to be addressed.  This recruiting class may well lay a foundation that brings very positive results during their four years if it can be followed up with other classes of similar talent.  I simply don't see them making the jump to the top four this season.  I would be happy to be wrong however.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on October 04, 2005, 09:47:26 am
Dolph-

Very good points made in reference to the pressures of the incoming class.  But you have to realize the difference it will make getting Hinz out of the post position and letting him do his thing with the ball as a 4-man.  He will be able to spread out the defense and use his incredible footwork to create opportunities for himself AND everyone else, therefore taking all of the defensive focus off of Hinz.

Yes, defensively they have struggled in the past.  If you throw in some quicker guards to pur pressure on the ball and a 6-8 frame in the middle to go along with Hinz, that could change things as well.  All be it speculation, the changes that have been made in the offsesaon could make a world of difference just because it will be a different setup as last years team.  (and probably for the better)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 04, 2005, 11:55:59 am
I would have to agree with "The Roop" here.  Defense is the main thing.....yes you have to score in order to win, but you also have to be able to stop the other team.  (Well unless you play in the organized chaos of Grinnell and have Steve Wood on your team.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 04, 2005, 02:30:13 pm
Steve who? Wait til you see Grinnell's 1st year players! And wait til you see the improvement in the returning players! I won't give anything away, but everybody that showed up and stayed fits in big-time! This will be a much improved MWC top to bottom IMHO, so the whole conference is a crapshoot and the tourney is up for grabs! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jgatz33 on October 04, 2005, 05:11:20 pm
watch out for wes ladwig at carroll...remember the name he will be a good one
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 04, 2005, 08:58:16 pm
Is he from Plymouth ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jgatz33 on October 04, 2005, 11:20:47 pm
new berlin west
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 05, 2005, 01:24:43 am
The key to any good defensive strategy is of course to have a pep band that travels with the team all season long. Not just the occasional road game. As it stands right now, they don't even have a band for home games. Get the band going again and the D will follow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 05, 2005, 10:33:28 am
Yes, defense has been a problem for BC. And it's not like the other teams in the MWC are so much better that they can't stop them. D is about will and determintion.
That   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 05, 2005, 12:44:12 pm
Grinnell College Faculty approved the Grinnell baskedtball schedule on Monday. The schedule is now up on the Grinnell College website. The first 7 games are at home! Looks like GC gets a favorable schedule as payback for last years horror of an early schedule. 12 home games total with a very interesting pre conference schedule including Cornell College, rematches with Wartburg and Grandview, a match with the Australian National team (20 and under, I believe) and a game early on with MacMurray. The latter could be the first matchup of system vs system teams depending on what MacMurray decides to do this year. This could be a fun season!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 05, 2005, 12:49:16 pm
oops! 8 straight home games to begin the season and 13 home games total!


and so it begins....:-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 05, 2005, 03:44:12 pm
First post in this highly sophisticated D3 website...


First and foremost, Early, I promise I'm not avoiding your calls and i've been meaning to call you back for two weeks now...I might be visiting this weekend fyi, but i just started a new job in Waukesha so i've been real busy.

Secondly,

Ripon has an outstanding freshman named Vahantre Brown.  I played with him this summer at one of Ripon's Basketball camps and he is easily the most athletic player this conference has seen in a long time (seriously puts grant,flowers,Butrym to shame).  Those of you who think im exaggerating, well, you will just have to see for yourself.  He is very strong and already has a senior's body as a freshman.  I don't know how much PT he will get this year, but with the departure of Becker and Massen I'm sure there will be plenty of guard minutes to fill.  Knowing Gillie the way i do, I know he likes to get his stud freshman PT whether they are ready or not for futures sake.  I guess it all depends on whether he picks up the offense/defense assignments fast enough. If he does, Ripon could have another special team. Remember, no one thought Ripon would be better last year when they lost Kieck and Landish, but others will step up (Brian Schmitting should touch the ball everytime down the floor). But this player will be a treat to watch for years to come...especially for us Redhawk fans
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 05, 2005, 05:38:30 pm
What is his Wunderlich ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 05, 2005, 05:41:44 pm
In addition, to Vahantre Brown, Ripon also has a transfer student I heard from Coach Gillespie from Concordia (I think).  Chris Kellet.  He is currently playing a large role in the Redhawk defensive backfield listed at 6'4", 210 lbs. and is  forward for hoops.  Gillie said he has high hopes for this kid too.  I haven't seen him play or know much else....just that he's a good sized tough player.

mwc4life....you have to give me a call then.  I will be in Ripon this weekend along with a fellow alumn of a darker complection.

† 8) Cool as the other side of the pillow†  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 05, 2005, 07:53:48 pm
Another to benefit to getting the Pep Band going again is that Pep Band is not a Varsity Sport. Therefore, Beloit could recruit D1 prospects and give them all Band  Scholarships. Start a new Music Theory class and it could meet twice a day for two hours in the gym. I don't think there's a rule against band members participating in athletics.

This would really improve the "D" in a hurry and it's not quite as underhanded as "greyshirting". Snicker snicker................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: True Basketball Fan on October 05, 2005, 11:16:50 pm
Does anybody know what happened to Erik Bullock out of Waukesha Tech?  I heard he was thinking about Beloit.

For people who don't know........he averaged almost a triple double and led the nation (DIII juco) in assists last season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: petemcb on October 06, 2005, 07:23:10 am
DIII juco?!  How many divisions do they have?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: True Basketball Fan on October 06, 2005, 01:49:45 pm
Incredibly, there are actually 3 Divisions.  Some are fairly decent....Joliet (IL), Harper (IL), Mid-State Tech (WI) to name a few, but most are not the highest quality of basketball, and that's being nice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on October 07, 2005, 11:16:17 am
Some of you guys are missing a great season over on the D3football site.  ;D

Jeff P - Tell your gridders to be nice to my Scots this weekend.  If you're a football fan, I hope you enjoy the game.  However, you may be busy selling liquid warmth during that time.

Scottie
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 07, 2005, 11:40:25 am
Yup! Sellin' liquid warmth to the Grinnell fans and team members and liquid valium to the Monmouth players. :-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on October 07, 2005, 12:14:21 pm
Market it as "touchdown juice."   ::)

"Monmouth Football in 2005!"† †>:(
[/color]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 09, 2005, 01:28:22 pm
Nice football thumpin' by Monmouth over GC, huh? 62-14? I guess we won't have to worry about any more sorry arguements about runnin' up the score in ANY kinda games after this, will we? ;-)

Truly one of the best, most well balanced teams to play against Grinnell in many years. No humiliation here IMHO since GC played hard.

OK, we can go back to basketball now.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 10, 2005, 10:01:32 am
Oops! Shoulda stayed for the last 1:45. Score was actually 69-14. :-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on October 10, 2005, 04:44:42 pm
You beat us that game by 76, so we still could have put three more touchdowns on the board...  Ah, let's call it even.   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 10, 2005, 08:41:34 pm
Victory margin for Monmouth games will always be misleading as everyone knows  they employ a system that is not real football. Under normal circumstances this would be a 14-3 game and should be considered a very good showing by the Pioneers.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 11, 2005, 07:45:06 am
Was it 76 that year? Wow! I guess they WERE holding back!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 11, 2005, 09:21:42 am

Roop said something funny guys...give him the love.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 11, 2005, 09:36:15 am
What was funny? He was ABSOLUTELY right!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 11, 2005, 01:22:57 pm
I am aroommate for Titan 2000, using his computer without his knowledge.


His demeanor around the house has been misreable for the past 3 months.  He walks around the house saying "damm that Pat Coleman" under his breath.   I decided to search his PC for clues of his distress, and came upon this D3hoops.com site.  Since his karma points drop seems to parallel his loss of self esteem, I am asking this board a favor so we can have our roommate back again.

Will you please provide Titan 2000 some karma points this week.  I am afraid without them we may be seeing the emergency personnel at the house soon. 

I need to sign off before he comes back from surgery--he does vasectomies for a local veternarian.  Hopefully he doesn't see this post soon, before his karna points go up to near level.

Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 11, 2005, 02:00:22 pm
One karma point-just so he doesn't do any self-vasectomies. He/you is/are too young for that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 11, 2005, 04:33:53 pm
Why does the Veterinarian need more than one vasectomy anyway???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 11, 2005, 04:38:48 pm
Is there a vast difference between the previous operations................ ba dum bump.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 11, 2005, 06:07:37 pm
My roommates meant well and that is nice.  I am a free lance vet surgeon.  I help when the workloads get high. 

Go LU.  Go MWC. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: amcclary on October 12, 2005, 11:14:12 am
 ???

What happened to my account? I've been trying to reply for a couple days and I couldn't logon. Apparently my account was deleted.

Maybe those days of supporting the Roop are coming back to haunt me.

 ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: amcclary on October 12, 2005, 11:16:30 am
Roop, "vast difference...", I got it. Very nice.

Titan, just remember that the first rule of Karma is "never talk about Karma".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on October 12, 2005, 02:43:48 pm
The Roop:

Funny comment about Monmouth Football not actually being real football.   ;D

The Scottie

p.s.  "Monmouth Football in 2005!"† †>:(† (my football game face)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 12, 2005, 04:16:18 pm
AM,

I think it was two months ago that you had to confirm your account or it would be axed to make the change over.

FYI. I've declared myself President of D4 so you are now LNCUTMV Commissioner by default. I'm still looking for someone to head the M.A.N.I.A.C. however. (Minnesota and Northern Iowa Athletic Conference) Pretty scary how that almost sounds like a real conference.

Equally scary is the fact that you seem to be the first to get my humor. Vast difference, Daisy Moses Medical College, etc.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 13, 2005, 01:11:05 am
McClary:

Apparently you didn't keep your e-mail address up to date on the old board. systemfan86 still exists, but if you don't remember your password and you no longer have that e-mail address, you're pretty much SOL.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 13, 2005, 06:38:35 am
Maybe systemfan86 is just greyshirting right now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 13, 2005, 08:17:20 am
 ;D

Thanks Pat.

I had tried the old ID but I'm guessing it's case sensitive and I put a capital letter where I shouldn't have. I never was very good at capitalization!

BTW, I just received (and am wearing) an official GC tee shirt from the ESPN2 game last year. Soooooo coool - despite the fact they lost.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 13, 2005, 08:41:08 am
Hey AM! Welcome back! I'll see if I can grab  something for you at the shootaround this weekend. They are apparently having some hats/shirts/poster type stuff available at that event.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 13, 2005, 11:08:30 am
jeff,

Sounds very cool. I'm pretty sure I have the only GC on ESPN2 shirt in SW Ohio, so adding one of those would be a great addition to the semi-exclusive collection.

BTW, do those come with a latte?  ;D

Wish I could make it out that direction for a game in person, but the schedule doesn't work too well. Funny thing is, my class is scheduled for the reunion this year and I told them I couldn't make it; as I think about it, I'm far more likely to come out for a game than I am for the reunion. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 13, 2005, 12:03:54 pm
Yeah, I seldom make reunions but never miss a game! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 13, 2005, 05:50:26 pm
It sounds as though some of the millions, and I mean millions of "The Roops" fans are looking for a good reason to go to Grinnell this year. Fear not, "The Roop" has a reason........................One afternoon only. Dec. 2nd, 2005 Saints Rest Coffeehouse is proud to welcome the comedy and right wing genius of "The Roop" live and in person.

Topics to be discussed include, but are not limited to: Roswell. How Bigfoot invented mobile homes. The Philadelphia Experiment and why it hasn't really happened yet.  Why the "System" should not be hated but those who don't hate the "System" should be. D4 is real, the NCAA is not.....................
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 14, 2005, 08:52:19 am
Guess I better get ready to make a Roopacinno or two, huh?

Look forward to meeting you, sir! Could be a busy weekend! Another friend may be bringing his entire Juco team over to see the show twice that weekend!

Tonight (well, 12:01 tomorrow) is Midnite Madness at GC. That should be loads of fun as well. My lovely and I plan to sleep 2 shifts (7pm-11:15pm, then 1:30pm-4:45pm), go to the festivities, and STILL open the shop at 6:00 Saturday mornng. Just told that to a customer and he asked if I was gonna be serving grumpy coffee. I don't know if he meant some guy named grumpy or if grumpy came with the coffee or what...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 14, 2005, 01:22:26 pm

OK, I know I didn't make it up for the game I wanted to last season Jeff, but I'm getting an early start this year.  Pick out a good game for me and I'll try plan farther ahead.  Does GC ever do Saturday afternoon games?  That would be ideal, although the thought of an afternoon drive for a Friday night game and then another late-night drive back the same night is sure to bring me back to my college days of rediculous road trips.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 14, 2005, 08:16:30 pm
AM! we thought you had died! welcome back! (pretends this is still one of her home boards, even after moving to virginia, then california)  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 14, 2005, 09:55:10 pm
Jeff,

Now that I know you open at 6:00AM let me be the first to say not to expect me that early. LOL. Number of Roopaccinos made is not as important as the number of times Roopaccinos are discussed. April can't stand it that I have a drink named after me and she doesn't. Which is probably why she moved so far away, to hide her pain, etc.

Are we wagering anything on the contest???? Something like I have to wear a G.C. shirt if they win and you have to drink Folgers Crystals if Beloit wins?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 15, 2005, 08:42:04 am
Sorry, Roop, but DHF does have a scone named after her already. More appropriate since she doesn't drink coffee.

Tell you what. You gotta wear a Grinnell shirt after the game and on the way home if GC wins. I have to wear a Beloit shirt (you are never getting me to drink folgers crystals) if BC wins. I don't have a BC shirt, but I really see no reason for you to bring one over to the game.  :D

Hoops Fan- I think there are four Saturday afternoon games. If you go to the Grinnell College website they have the date/time info posted. Love to see you here at a game.

Went to the first  'Midnite Madness' practice early this morning! What a hoot! The 1st Years aren't very big, but Man, can they shoot! They won the Station 3pt Shot Contest hands down! I actually got to participate in a 2 on 2 scoring contest thanks to 2nd year David Rein - sorry I can't hit the broad side of a barn, DR - and also got a perfectly pitched Tshirt from Trek Langenhan. Trek was just as accurate with his 3 pt shots too, BTW. This team is clickin' and the 1st Year players UNDERSTAND after a couple of months of pickup ball with the oldies! Look Out MWC!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 15, 2005, 09:49:06 am
Hey, everybody...Long time reader, first time poster

I am huge Grinnell College fan. I have been following them through magazine articles and on television, but I haven't been able to see them play since I was a student there. But this year I cleared my schedule and am headed back to see the historic Darby Gymnasium and watch the cagers play. I met my wife at Darby. I love that place. Probably my favorite place. It's a shame they don't play there anymore (the new facility looks fabulous on the internet), but it still will be fun to walk through and reminisce.

jeffp, you and I are kindred sprits. I read your posts religiously and try to convert them to song. I play the flute. The Saint's Rest will be the first place I stop when I get in town. Do you have waffles? We'll discuss Grinnell hoops over Belgian waffles and orange juice. Could you introduce me to this Dave Rein character? He seems like the genuine article. And congrats on the t-shirt!


 :o

Life is good. Go Pioneers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 15, 2005, 01:37:25 pm
Welcome on over, GF68! Look forward to meeting you when you get to town. Sorry, no Belgian waffles, but I bet we can fix you up with something good-maybe April's Lament Blueberry Scones?

We all miss Old Darby-the site is now covered with construction crap as the new student center goes up. The old torches still exist and were put in a revered spot at New Darby, so there is a place to pray. ;-)

You might have  better luck converting old jeffp musings to compost, but thanks for trying. David Rein is the genuine article all right, but then every one of them is a Grinnellian so...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 16, 2005, 09:22:50 am
Scones should be alright, but I'm not sure blueberry would go very well with a Roopaccino. If they are made with lots of animal fat I'm sure it will be ok.

In the event of a 4 minute overtime the bet is off. I have just the Beloit shirt in mind for you already however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 16, 2005, 11:30:54 pm
pop quiz, jeffp...who led the pioneers in scoring in 1971? I'll bet you a cup of coffee you have no idea.
 ???


hint: It wasn't George Thompson. ??? ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 17, 2005, 12:05:33 am
GrinnellFan68,

"The Roop" advises that you do not question JeffPs knowledge of the Pioneers. You will fail and then you may turn to the "Decaf Side".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 17, 2005, 07:43:36 am
Scott Hansen? Gary Johnson? Sheesh! I can hardly remember 1971, much less who was the high scorer on a team that didn't win a game in 3 years!!!  Did anyone score? ;-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 17, 2005, 10:44:47 am

That Ripon game is looking pretty good on December 3rd.  Do you think its wise coming on a weekend where they just played the night before or plan for a Saturday game that's all by itself?

The IC game on January 7th is another possibility for me.  What do you think?

I will also have to make sure I have the directions to the old Coffee Cavalcade for something to keep warm during the Iowa winter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 17, 2005, 12:14:50 pm
After the thrashing they'll get on Dec 2nd the team won't expect anyone to ever show up again. So I recommend going on Dec 3rd to provide moral support.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 17, 2005, 01:32:35 pm

That was a fantstic comment, not that I really take sides in the MWC, but it was witty and funny without a hint of actual hatred... trash talk at its finest.

If I end up coming then, I might just try and find a cheap hotel room and do both games.  Why drive to Iowa for one game, when you could just as easily do it for two?

Anyway, I'm ready for my first trip to see the system in person... roopaccinos for everyone!

(Not really; I can't afford that.  I just wanted a clever way to say 'roopaccinos')
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 17, 2005, 01:49:28 pm
Good Grief! it sounds like all of D3hoops is planning to be here that weekend for the er, thrashing??? At least you will all be able to see the Roop wearing his Grinnell Tshirt...IF he has the courage to stay for the Saturday game!

I wish I owned a Hotel here in Grinn City!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 17, 2005, 02:34:09 pm
I'm really beginning to wonder exactly what's in a Roopaccino...

Does anyone else see a situation of potential confusion with GrinnellFan68 and systemfan86?

Diehard, glad to know I was missed!  ;) 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 17, 2005, 02:42:33 pm
So jeffp, if the frosh are solid from outside the arc, are we looking for a high scoring year? If 50% of the shots are meant to be from 3-point range, can they make enough and do we have the rebounders to make 'the system' goals work?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 17, 2005, 04:03:22 pm
it's not hansen...though he did "score" a lot off the court if you know what I mean... :D

fine, it's obvious you don't know.  ???


next quiz...what was the racially offensive mascot Grinnell had before switching to the Pioneers? :-X


anyway, I have my predictions for the conference...

1. Lawrence
2. Illinois College (I don't like them, but good is good)
3. Knox
4. Grinnell
5. Ripon (NBA coach, NBA players, another year without the playoffs)
6. Monmouth
7. Lake Forest
8. Carroll
9. St. Norbert
10. Beloit (sorry Rooper Scooper)

Admittedly, I have never seen any of these teams besides the espn grinnell-beloit game. My opinions are kind of like Charles Barkley's. Devoid of logic and loud, but entertaining.


My wife made me watch the Bridges of Madison County last night, jeffp. I'm so depressed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 17, 2005, 04:17:01 pm
AM, et al.

The Roopaccino is loosely based on the Caramel Cashew Sundae at Culvers. So it has caramel and cashews in it. Beyond that I've not yet had one and Jeff hasn't revealed any other secret ingredients. Only that he had a hard time figuring out how to get the cashew pieces to float on the foam.

Trash talking. Yes, let it begin. A bet has been made after all and the talk is more important than actually winning or losing the bet. Although the shirt I have in mind for Jeff to wear is long sleeved so it says Beloit on it about forty eleven times. Not sure if I'll stay for both games in Grinnell either way. I might follow the Bucs to Monmouth on Saturday, or simply may high tail it for home depending on the weather.

Since everyone from the board is going to be there we might as well make it the Coach Hahn Fan Club Meeting for December. Our motto is as always, "the truth to Coach Hahn is like kryptonite to Superman". For those unfamiliar with the Coach Hahn phenomenon.... He was a poster that made the mistake of questioning/calling out The Roop once. To my knowledge he has not been heard from in 18 months.

As for multiple AMs/Systemfans. I'll explain that when we discuss Roswell on Dec, 2nd at Saints Rest. There is a connection, etc.





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 17, 2005, 04:23:03 pm
jeff p.... don't you think that any food with the name "lament" is probably not going to sell well? just a thought, from this seasoned marketing professional (ironic laughter)... okay... I don't know! I was just an environmental science major! sob, sob...  :'(

anyhow, how did you get the impression that I do not drink coffee? looks down at now empty lovely red pier 1 coffee mug

organic soy vanilla latte with an extra shot of expresso please?  I didn't get much sleep last night!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 17, 2005, 04:25:14 pm
FYI, with a AAA card, the Super 8 in Grinnell is offering 43.20 per night on December 2nd.  It's expedia so I'm not sure if taxes are included or not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 17, 2005, 04:35:23 pm
organic soy vanilla latte.................. good lord just have a snickers. It satisfies. And if you need a little "extra" to keep you awake. Just eat a spoon or two of Folgers Crystals right out of the jar like Jeff does.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 17, 2005, 06:50:55 pm
AM- They will certainly be higher scoring than last year and MUCH quicker. I hope that translates to more w's as well. BTW, I'm only gonna send you that shirt if you commit to a BBall visit!

GF68-you obviously paid more attention to the details than I did/do! Are you gonna fill us in on the answers or let us dangle all year long? I don't think Bailey was playing yet, was he? As for the mascot? Must have been a Madison County Bridge. Not racially offensive, but offensive none-the-less. Something Irish maybe? I know GC has a very anti Irish background dating to the 1860's and 70's.
As for your picks-can you get me some of what you are smoking? IC in 2nd?? Whoa!

Roop- I heard it was actually Coach Hahn they found at Roswell years ago. Like Otis Sistrunk before him, definitely from the University of Mars.

DHF-they are called 'April's Lament' because you will never win any, you're gonna have to show up and buy one. BTW the name hasn't slowed sales one bit. In fact once people hear the story behind the name they buy 'em as fast as Judy and Patricia can make 'em.
You DO drink coffee? Seems to me I remember sending you a Saints Rest cup you claimed you would fill only with tea! Besides, you aren't really a coffee drinker until you order the Vanilla organic soy latte with extra shot, but leave out the Vanilla and organic soy milk.
 :D

hoops-Be careful of that 43.20 quote from Expedia. It really refers to the fact that you have a 43.2% chance of surviving the night at that motel.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 18, 2005, 08:40:42 am

What's a road trip without the possibility of suffering or being forced to commit a misdemeanor?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 18, 2005, 09:44:52 am
AM- They will certainly be higher scoring than last year and MUCH quicker. I hope that translates to more w's as well. BTW, I'm only gonna send you that shirt if you commit to a BBall visit!

Quicker should be a good thing when you want to force turnovers and get those long rebounds. Were the better GC teams on the quick side?

Can't promise about the trip. I'll be in Galena (Illinois) for Thanksgiving, so turning around and attending the Coach H meeting is pretty much out. (Although I was looking forward to seeing the Roop drink multiple roopaccinos through a funnel...).

My best shot may still be heading to Lake Forest at the end of the season. That cuts the trip in half. Does it have to be a home game?

BTW, isn't April Lament that she didn't choose to attend a MWC school?  ;D
Quote
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2005, 10:44:25 am
Hoops-
Hoops-The suffering part is almost guaranteed. Bring a tent. ;-)

AM -
The best teams all had players with quick hands. This whole team is quick handed and the 1st years are quick of foot. I think it bodes well! If you are in Galena for thanksgiving, remember that they play the Aussies that weekend.

Since we plan to go to the LF game too, I guess we could count it as a home game. Ist year player Bobby Long is from Lake Forest (i think) so I guess that also makes it a home game. :-)

DHF will have to answer which is the biggest lament, i guess.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on October 18, 2005, 11:48:28 am
Jeff,

I notice you haven't mentioned how difficult it is to get to your coffee shop these days. How many customers have you lost to the sewer line holes out front?

IMO, the problem for GC last year was integration of upperclassmen with the newbies, and the (lack of) 3 pointers. I suspect neither of these are problems this year, based on rumors, innuendo, and JeffP's comments. So should be a fun year for GC fans.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 18, 2005, 12:15:39 pm

Well maybe its better I waited until this year to go see them in person.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2005, 12:57:27 pm
dc- we've really only lost about 20% of our customers to construction, but they got most of 'em covered up before they were discovered.

You are absolutely right that the integration took a long time last year. They still have plenty to learn, but they already look like a unit. The trey's? They always go in practice so we will just have to see what happens in a game. I just know that there are several pure shooters in the freshman class that will fit well with the likes of Langenhan, Schmidt, and   Co.. I really do look for a successful year for the 'neers.

Hoops-You would have enjoyed it last year. You should REALLY enjoy it this year!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2005, 01:04:28 pm
BTW, the first two games should be very interesting this November. We start out with Cornell College. Coach DeGeorge used to be the assistant at GC, and he showed last year that he knows how to defend and score against the system as well as anyone. Next comes MacMurray, another 'system' team. Yup, we are talking about the first ever (to my knowledge anyway) game between two system teams. That could be more fun than watching monkeys and chimps fight over bananas! These two games will tell us a bunch, IMHO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 18, 2005, 01:10:56 pm
That could be more fun than watching monkeys and chimps fight over bananas! These two games will tell us a bunch, IMHO.

I'll take the monkeys and the 'Over' since the chimps don't use "real" primate fighting skills. They just try to wear down the gorillas to a point where they won't call any fouls!

 :D :D :D :D

BTW, nice use of the term bunch in the trailing sentence!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2005, 01:48:12 pm
I knew a Grinnellian would catch it first! ;-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titansrus on October 18, 2005, 02:09:34 pm
Hey guys, as you can see, I'm not a fan of any schools in this conference, but I do have a couple friends that are freshmen for Lake Forest this year and I was wondering how they're gonna do this year. Thanks a lot.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 18, 2005, 04:39:23 pm
they are called 'April's Lament' because you will never win any, you're gonna have to show up and buy one
Only cause Harris would never waste a game on you guys! :P Ahaha... kidding of course!

You DO drink coffee? Seems to me I remember sending you a Saints Rest cup you claimed you would fill only with tea! Besides, you aren't really a coffee drinker until you order the Vanilla organic soy latte with extra shot, but leave out the Vanilla and organic soy milk.:D
lol... nope! definitely have filled them with coffee on many occasions... I still love them by the way!!  :) every time someone tried to use them, or stick them in the diswasher instead of handwashing them, I would get really upset! hehe  ;)

and  :P just cause I like things with my coffee, doesn't mean I don't like the coffee itself... sort of...  :D

BTW, isn't April Lament that she didn't choose to attend a MWC school?
DHF will have to answer which is the biggest lament, i guess.
Lol... you guys do remember that the only school I applied to was Lawrence, right?? You know, that MWC school that keeps making the playoffs instead of GC?  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on October 18, 2005, 05:01:42 pm
MC Fighting Scots-Better than people think in 05-06!!
[/color]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 18, 2005, 05:16:37 pm

OK Now I'm not sure if that is cool or showy... thoughts?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2005, 06:55:56 pm
So DHF, if Larry is the only school you applied to and you actually went to Wheaton, does that mean you don't even have to apply there to get in? :o

titansrus-welcome to the MWC board, Home of the haiku and the Roopacinno! To answer your question, i think if LF has a good recruiting class they could be a contender again. I honestly can't remember if Beckford is back this year, but as an opponent's fan I sure hope not. He was possibly the most underrated player in the MWC last year next to maybe Paul Nordland from Grinnell. LF did let a home town kid get away to Grinnell-Bobby Long-a kid who should make a difference in the very near future for GC, IMHO. The conference should be more balanced than ever this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 18, 2005, 07:02:12 pm
wheeee! Definitely showy!!



hahahahaha! I think I like my screw up better than the intended stuff!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 18, 2005, 07:16:44 pm
So DHF, if Larry is the only school you applied to and you actually went to Wheaton, does that mean you don't even have to apply there to get in? :o

pretty much, they begged me to come...



okay, that's a lie! I'm so ashamed!  :'( :-[ :D

The only MWC school silly  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 18, 2005, 11:26:45 pm
Now what we need is a haiku that mentions Roopaccinos, kimchi and spam.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 18, 2005, 11:32:24 pm
How about..............

One Roopaccino
with kimchi and spam and scones
alka seltzer please
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 19, 2005, 12:22:37 am
[ ::)][/ :o]



another quiz for you, jeffp...

In 1968, Grinnell College had an animal loose on South Campus. It was not a goat, but it did yield milk. What was that animal?



My wife left me last night. I couldn't be happier about it actually. No joke. You guys are all I've got.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 19, 2005, 03:05:50 am
So, what are the preseason predictions for this year?  Lawrence and ripon should be at the top.  What about knox, Lake Forest, Illinois College, St. Norbert?  How are they going to be this year?  Let's hear some predictions.  Practices, I believe have started.  somebody has got to have some updates so let's hear them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 19, 2005, 08:28:57 am
Let the Haiku's begin!

GF68-Sorry to hear your news, but if we are all you've got, well...

I know of one hog and one cow that year although the hog wasn't loose...or was it Langan?

the game-LU and RC may or may not be at the top, but they will be in the hunt. So will just about everybody this year. Should be a crazy race.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 19, 2005, 09:38:53 am
I would agree that Lawrence and Ripon will be in the hunt if not at the top.  Lawrence now has some added recruiting power with their last couple of playoff runs, and the fact that they always play tough D.  Ripon will be potent on offense....hard to stop....with Masson gone they need someone to step up on Defense.  Maybe you can be the guy to coach the next great defender Mas???? 

As for IC?  Not sure.....5-11 last year....unless you guys are hearing some great things about their recruits?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on October 19, 2005, 11:04:38 am
Carolll only lost 2 players last year.  Even though they were starters and good, they are returning everyone else and have some good recruits coming it.  Don't forget about them, they have been in the hunt the past couple of years.   

What about Monmouth?  I heard they are suppose to be pretty good this year
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 19, 2005, 12:09:27 pm
My wife left me last night.

Ugh... I'm really starting to feel like it's people of my gender who are the unfaithful/scandalous ones these days. blah...

But then another random guy trys to seduce me and I remember that it's basically most people of both genders that are lame.  :D

Anyhow, on a serious note, best wishes to you in this new season of your life.  :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on October 19, 2005, 01:37:49 pm
What's Roopicinno
Is it a drink or creature
I may never know
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on October 19, 2005, 01:38:26 pm
Just a local Appletonian who likes MWC ball, but here is my take:

I think LU will be among the favorites.  Front court will be very strong with Braier and McGillis at forward and strong play at the center as well.  The real question for LU is whether freshman guards will step up to complement Rosenblatt and Bradley.  Holinbeck and Evans were strong at both ends.

I think Ripon will be competitive, but loss of Becker is very significant.  He was so quick he created shots for people like Johnson.  They may take a step back.

I think Carroll has had and will continue to have strong talent.  They will miss Hickether, but they had 4-5 good players. Not sure why they do not get over the hump.

Knox will have two of the 10 best players in the conference in Maclin and Zirk.  Depth is their challenge, especially with Kelly gone.

Lake Forest has a bunch back and is also due to get over the hump.

I think these will be the top 5 unless Grinnell really has some good freshman as advertised.  I think St. Nor takes a step back and IC misses Dudley and their big guys.

At the risk of insulting some folks on the board, I think the noise about Beloit is probably just noise.  Their big guy Hinz is good, but they just have not accomplished much with him.

Hence,(it is early) 1. LU 2. Carroll 3. Lake Forest 4. Ripon

Hopefully, a couple teams have strong years and we get two in the expanded NCAA tourney.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 19, 2005, 02:46:13 pm
lu_nut
nice job here! Just a few comments. Ripon lost 2 key players, but still has one of the wiliest coaches in the conference. Haven't heard much about the newbies but still expect them to be good. Larry lost its heart (j Holinbeck) IMHO, and that may be more difficult to overcome than you might think. A resurgent GC squad pasted Knox and LFC at the end of the season last year, has a fine, but unproven 1st year class, great senior leadership, what appears to be fantastic intersquad relationships on and off the floor, and the luxury of 8 straight home games to start the season. The first 3 conference games are at home as well. As stated, Carroll is consistent year to year, but they and St N are sort of unknown factors. Monmouth youngsters have matured and Beloit is very well coached and apparently has some good new talent. IC really needs a great frosh class to make up for losses and to be competitive. Not sure of their situation, but the coach will still be the best dressed in the conference which should be worth something.;-)

In other words, crapshoot!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on October 19, 2005, 03:22:19 pm
Well looked in on Beloit today and saw Hinz not in practice gear with a cast on his right hand. I found out he broke it in the teams 1st practice. I also found out that their very tough JC transfer guard is having season ending surgery on his foot or leg. Also one of the new big kids has a stress fracture and another of the new big kids was at practice cause he hurt his back. Tough way to start the season. Hope they get over all these injuries before the regular season starts. They sure look like they could be good if they can stay healthy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 19, 2005, 03:31:25 pm
WOW!  Tough break for BC. This was relly suppose to be the year. What's exactly the extent of Hinz's  injury?  BC veterans (Towns, Fieck , Hendry and Bysted)  will really have to step it up now. Bottom line though is that this team goes nowhere without Hinz!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 19, 2005, 03:38:21 pm
Sorry to hear about all the injuries. Hinz is a great player. I hope he makes it back in good shape.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 19, 2005, 04:11:15 pm
Whew that is quite a tough break BC.  Hinz is a good baller....I hope he isn't out long.   

jeffp, Ripon has some quality new recruits.  I talked to coach Gillespe and he is pretty excited.  As mwc4life said earlier, Vahntre Brown is a frosh, and Chris Kellet is a transfer from Concordia, who also played Defensive back for the hawks this year. 
People forgot about David McMullen will be a second year starter this year and actually lu_nut, he is quicker than Tommy Becker, just not as much of a moose physically.  Brian Schmitting looks as though he put on 20 lbs over the summer.  Also 6'7" senoir Wally DeVries is a work horse and shot blocker. 
BRING BACK WALLY'S WALL!!!

Oh yeah one more thing...

If you don't know...go to BO!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 19, 2005, 04:13:10 pm
Grinnellfan68,

From the time I made my first post on here to the time my wife left me I believe was 15 days. When was your first post ?? you may have the new record. Either way there must be a D3hoops Curse.

TeeDub,

A Roopaccino is the top selling coffee at Jeffs place. (or will be after Dec. 2nd) In addition to freeze dried goodness, like all his coffees have, The Roopaccino also includes caramel and cashews.  

Diehardfan,

Wear birkenstocks and tie dye shirts. The seduction attempts should stop immediately.

General Beloit comment:

While the injuries certainly don't help matters, any team with 8 freshman and 1 sophomore on the 15 man roster can't be expected to achieve greatness.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 19, 2005, 04:31:17 pm

Can I get my Roopaccino without the Cashews or would that be sacrilege?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 19, 2005, 04:45:51 pm
HoopsFan,

As I understand it the cashews are only small pieces, so I doubt you'd notice them. They have to be able to float atop the foam, etc. Perhaps Jeff could serve them on the side for you. However, it's not a Roopaccino if it's made with decaf.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 19, 2005, 04:52:15 pm
More like a Poopaccino


Sorry, Roopert...I'm just so out of it right now. I'm lashing out at you to make me feel better.  ???
Edith left me for a Mexican guy, Raul. He's only 33. What is a 49 year old woman doing with a 33 year old guy? I'm so pathetic.  :'(

Thanks for all of your supprt through the troubled times. Especially you, jeffp.
 :)


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 19, 2005, 04:59:56 pm
So much to comment on...guess I'll go with basketball first...

If I've learned nothing else from posting on this board, I've learned it's wa-a-a-y too hard to predict this league. Every year, there is a player or team that goes off that no one expected. Last year it was Becker. That's not to say that no one had heard of him or that he didn't get respect, but he took it up more than a notch last year to become POY. No one expected him to be in the running for POY much less an honorable mention D3 All American. If anyone can predict a surprise POY candidate, I'd be surprised.

Grinnellfan68,

From the time I made my first post on here to the time my wife left me I believe was 15 days. When was your first post ?? you may have the new record. Either way there must be a D3hoops Curse.
GF68, you don't have a picture of you and a dead elk, do you?

TeeDub,

A Roopaccino is the top selling coffee at Jeffs place. (or will be after Dec. 2nd) In addition to freeze dried goodness, like all his coffees have, The Roopaccino also includes caramel and cashews.  

...you just have to drink it with a very LARGE grain of salt...

Diehardfan,

Wear birkenstocks and tie dye shirts. The seduction attempts should stop immediately.
If you did that, you might have been accepted at GC!
 :D :D :D
Let the Haiku's begin!
Haiku in Suess style
Do not like kimchi and spam
How's that diehardfan?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 19, 2005, 05:09:06 pm
Just to clear something up regarding Beloit, while the players being refered to as JuCo transfers did indeed attend JuCo's last year, they did not play basketball (not saying they were not capable, just that they did not play and as such are listed as Freshman (or in Beloit terms "first-years" since we can't use "men"))

Beloit's roster consists of three Seniors (one who is still playing football) three Juniors (one who  has seen no time in the first two seasons) and one Sophmore to go with the eight new players.  To say that much will be expected of the newcomers if this team is to have any chance to compete for one of the top spots in the MWC would be an understatement.   

a solid group.  If they stick around either 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 19, 2005, 05:10:08 pm
GrinnellFan68,

No need to apoligize to me, I've got thicker skin than that. Not sure what JeffP will think about your comments concerning a menu item of his, but my guess is he'll understand.

As a few "regulars" on here can attest, I was not at all thrilled when I got my surprise 18 months ago. I had no idea if I could even survive financially on my own. After a few paydays went by however, it dawned on me that I had more money than when she was here.  

Things have a way of working themselves out.

P.S. If he was 49 and white would you feel any better ??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 19, 2005, 05:10:41 pm
If anyone can predict a surprise POY candidate, I'd be surprised.


I would also be suprised, seeing that predicting a suprise POY condidate would counter the given definition of the word 'suprise' which in turn might alter the state of the universe.  Although, seeing how d3hoops posting goes hand-in-hand with failed marraiges... maybe that's not such a bad thing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 19, 2005, 05:20:58 pm
That one guy, from that Illinois school. That's my surprise POY surprise candidate pick.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 19, 2005, 06:02:02 pm
Wear birkenstocks and tie dye shirts. The seduction attempts should stop immediately.
Eek! No! This way I'm just annoyed, the other way I'd have to live with my self looking lame!  :D

If you did that, you might have been accepted at GC!
Lol... I didn't apply to Grinnell! Current national ranking of best liberal arts college diehardfan got into... #6. Current ranking of Grinnell? #15.  :P Maybe I just thought Lawrence was cool?  ::) Or is Grinnell one of those schools that accepts people who didn't apply to them too, AM and Jeff? :P :P :P :P :P Goooooooo Wheaton!  ;D

Incidentally, the deer comment was HILARIOUS!  :D

Oh yeah, and I am drinking starbucks coffee (not to make you mad or anything Jeff)

Wow, I am such a little trash talker today! Slaps hand and goes back to work!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 19, 2005, 06:12:03 pm
I offered a solution, I did not guarantee it would be satisfactory.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 19, 2005, 06:58:28 pm
So, lemme see. DHF chooses #55 over Bowdoin and Pomona because of...Baskeball?

Hmmm. Well, shouldn't be much of a challenge figgering this one out. After all DHF also admittedly chooses Starbucks too!

You are what you er, drink DHF! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 19, 2005, 07:01:26 pm
Hang in there, GF68. GBall will help sooth yer soul, win or lose, I promise!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on October 19, 2005, 07:03:54 pm
Jeff P and others...thanks for the responses...trying to get the discussion going.

I actually do think Holinbeck was a great player and will be very tough to replace.  However, the heart and soul of the team has been Braier since the first game of his freshman year.  He was POY in 2004, runnerup in 2005 and will likely be POY in 2006.   The record setting team at LU in 03-04 did it with Holinbeck injured much of the year.  Braier is the constant.  The other guy who will step up(in my opinion) is McGillis.  Always plays great defense and finished the year strong on offense last year.

McMullen at Ripon does have the potential to be very special.  I was disappointed this past year that he did not do more.  I think with Becker gone, he will step up to being an elite player in the conference.

Points about Grinnell are valid.  There problem last year was that they were running a three point offense with a very limited number of good three point shooters.  If they can plug in some new players, they could recover quickly.  Schedule was a mess last year as well, but not the only problem.  They were painful to watch during the mid-part of the year when they were starting to play home games.  (LU game, TV game against Beloit).  I think Nordlund is great.  I think he would me dominant as a "3" player in a normal offense.  He plays tall, handles the ball well, shoots well, etc.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 19, 2005, 07:38:01 pm
lu_nut
You may have me on the Braier point. We didn't see LU at GC in '03-'04 so I didn't realize JH was injured all year. No questioning Braiers ability, but JH-the times I have seen him-just had that undefinable character that I would try to describe as heart. Maybe it just showed against GC??

Once GC made some very important adjustments last year the shooters came forward. One big adjustment involved Nordlund. Just one change made a huge difference on offense, and it was a DEFENSIVE move! It was a very difficult season to watch in many ways, yes. If you will remember many GC fans talked about waiting for the team to gel. That involved many factors including the role of the leaders on that team. This year the leadership is apparently already there-no development needed. That is what gives me so much hope this early in the season. That, and the addition of several more great shooters, that is! ;-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on October 20, 2005, 12:27:32 am
"Just to clear something up regarding Beloit, while the players being refered to as JuCo transfers did indeed attend JuCo's last year, they did not play basketball "


I have to correct you Dolph. The Juco transfer thats is getting season ending surgery did play basketbal last year and played very very well. He would have been a huge help this year.

Regarding Hinz I was told that he'll be totally ready for the 1st game and he'll be in shape. Towns will have a big senior year and Fiek is one of the toughest guys in the league. Hendy who is stronger and quicker than last year. He should be a monster on the boards.

The 2 1st year post players (Horton and Tubbs) will contribute right away. Both are very good and will be all league players before theyre college career's are done.

And they  they have a legit point in Dowden. Not that Towns hasnt been good at the point, he will just plain goo off at the off grd. Ive seen Dowden a few times and this kid is as good a pure point as Ive seen in the league.

I know the coaches cant wait for Skelton to get done with football either. He is so athletic.

Bysted can flat out shoot the ball and is very fast. He will help alot.

I know im biased but I really think the Bucs will be so much improved and has a chance of making the top 4 this year.
Quote
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 20, 2005, 09:14:22 am
Given that Becker was also the POY in soccer last year, perhaps we should be scanning the football and cross country teams for possible candidates.

If anyone can predict a surprise POY candidate, I'd be surprised.


I would also be suprised, seeing that predicting a suprise POY condidate would counter the given definition of the word 'suprise' which in turn might alter the state of the universe. Although, seeing how d3hoops posting goes hand-in-hand with failed marraiges... maybe that's not such a bad thing.

Hoops fan, "predicted... surprise POY" is not necessarily the oxymoron you think. The MWC is full of such contradictions. Consider the following: Grinnell Republicans, D3 basketball on ESPN, defense by "the System", etc..

All these do exist despite the apparent lack of logical explanation!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 20, 2005, 10:01:27 am
Below is Beloit's roster (as listed on their web site)

 2005-06 Beloit College Men's Basketball Roster
No. Name Yr. Pos. Ht. Hometown/High School
1 Matt Fieck Jr. G/F 6-3 Appleton, WI/West
2 Cody Bysted So. G 6-2 Janesville, WI/Parker
10 Alex Gordon Jr. G 5-7 Portland, OR/Lincoln
11 Mike Dowden Fr. G 6-0 Walworth, WI/Big Foot
12 Sal Crivello Fr. G 6-0 Clinton, WI/Clinton
14 Nate Skelton Sr. G 6-3 Cambridge, IL/Cambridge
20 Adam Puls Fr. G 6-0 Orfordville, WI/Parkview
21 Nick Hendry Jr. F 6-5 Essex Junction, VT/Essex
22 Danny Towns Sr. G 6-3 Edgerton, WI/Edgerton
24 Ben Chrischilles Fr. G 6-2 Iowa City, IA/West
25 James Weber Fr. F 6-4 Sun Prairie, WI/Sun Prairie
32 Kyle Madsen Fr. G/F 6-3 Twin Lakes, WI/Wilmot Union
33 Andy Horton Fr. F/C 6-7 Orfordville, WI/Orfordville
34 Josh Hinz Sr. F/C 6-6 Fort Atkinson, WI/Fort Atkinson
41 C.J. Tubbs Fr. F/C 6-6 Beloit, WI/Memorial

Since you cannot have played basketball at the JC level last year and not used up one year of eligibility, if the kid did play then the SID missed it which led to my mistake. 

Where did he play?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 10:06:48 am
Not so fast, AM! Remember the holes in front of my store that Jeffdc was talking about the other day? We filled 'em in with all the GC republicans. After we got those two buried...;-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 20, 2005, 10:08:43 am
"I know im biased but I really think the Bucs will be so much improved and has a chance of making the top 4 this year."

The leading scorer in the history of the school back for his senior year, a second 4 years starter who will have a "big year" a great athlete coming back after football, a monster on the boards, one of the toughest guys in the MWC, two new big guys who will both be all conference by the time they are done. a great pures shooter, a true point guard to run the show.

I know I am a bit biased but if they don't make the top four with this talent who gets the blame this year?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on October 20, 2005, 01:21:14 pm
Concerning Beloit, In my eyes, the only way is up.  They lacked depth last season, and ran out of gas.  Hopefully, the bench is as improved as everyone is saying.  I saw Dowden play in high school, and the kid did nothing but impress me.  He is fast, smart and a great shooter.  He will mesh nicely with Towns, whom should be at the shooting guard position anyway.  Dowden can pop the 3 with the best of them.  Hopefully Skelton can stay healthy, as thats been a problem in the past.  Tubbs and Horton should help immensley under the boards, and relieve Hinz.  Hinz will be back in 2-3 weeks, he broke the bone that leads to his pinky finger.  Should give the other 2 big guys some quality practice time together.  I'm more optimistic about the bucs this year, just because they have some quality bench.  Should be a great opportunity for a freshman to  come in and play right away and prove something.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 20, 2005, 01:50:39 pm
Dolph,

First of all, i have to commend you on your love for your bucs.  You sound like a die-hard fan who wants more then anything to have these guys compete for a championship season and that's cool, but the reality is a little different.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but every year Dolph, you say the same thing about the incoming freshman, the core group of guys, the star in Hinz/flowers (whomever), the stars to be...etc and the same results happen...whether it's underachieving or what.

The reality is you have Lawerence, who has established itself as a great team in the midwest the last 3 years, Ripon who has the greatest coach in the league and has competed and won in this conference every year (also a top 25 team all last year), a Carroll team that gets better every year and has some really good players coming back, and Lake Forest who has a man-child in the middle and a solid group of players behind him.  

These are the 4 teams that made the tournament last year and i don't see them slipping much.  Granted all 4 teams lost valuable players, but all 4 teams have plenty of weapons that weren't used the year before because of the seniors who played a ton of minutes last year.  Then you have a much improving Knox team that's hard to beat on the road.  

Sorry Jeffp, I'm not sold on your Grinnell boys just yet.  I know they improved at the end of year, but until their gym becomes a dominate advantage like it had been at the hanger, no go.  Who knows if Norberts even has a team anymore...maybe more players will quit this year.  IC? did someone say IC will make the top 4 this year?

Now this doesn't mean no one is going to have a surprising year, but I look for the top 4 teams last year to most likely stay where they're at.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 02:44:17 pm
mwc4life-
Yup, Old Darby was definitely the sixth man, and only time will tell if New Darby will have the same effect. It isn't as intimate, few hanging wires, too bright, no low obstructions to the lofted pass, etc, but it WILL have the students. After 8 straight home games, we'll see what happens. Hard to argue with your top 4 picks, though, til after the season starts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 20, 2005, 04:02:31 pm
Jeffp,

You hit it right on the button.  The gym is way bigger then the old one which sat its fans right on top of the floor.  The ceiling isn't going to steal anymore balls like it used to at a consistant basis.  It is a lot brighter and the rims are really tight.  Over time I'm sure they'll make it their own.  Jeff, I know i've told you about this kid Vahantre Brown, but just wait until the Grinell fans see this kid.  They will be cheering him on like crazy....best dunker i've seen in my 6 years of being involved in the MWC.

On the Ripon front:  Brian Schmitting gained over 20 pounds from last year and looks like a real force at center for this year.  He had a solid soph. season last year so look for Schmitting to really step up and be the anchor of Ripon's defense and a go-to option in the offense. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: beloitfan57 on October 20, 2005, 04:13:25 pm
1. lawerence-hands down
2. ripon- solid
3. caroll - exciting
4. beloit- up and coming
5. knox- wont lose at home
6. monmouth- average
7.lake forest- down year
8. grinnell- has beens
9. st. nobert- terrible
10. illinois college- no scorers
st npbert and ic will be really really bad this year
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 04:29:26 pm
8. Grinnell - has beens...................... I luv it.

I like your top 3, although not necessarilly in that order. I'm not sure Lawrence should be handed the crown already. Beloit can make the 4th spot if 8-8 will get it done. After your top 3 I think the rest of the conference is pretty much a goat rope so you never know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 20, 2005, 04:43:36 pm
mwc4life,

6 years in the program?  You should be coaching next to Gillespe by now  ;D
How old are you now???  25 - 26  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 20, 2005, 04:49:08 pm
Here's the thing, we started out friends...it was cool but it was all pretend.


yeah yeah since you been gone


Illinois College will finish second this year. Mike Worrell is the John Wooden of the MWC and anyone who doesn't think so is just jealous.


Hey Beloit fans...not going to happen. Get ready for last, again.


jeffp...where are you. got to defend our boys...go fighting neers!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 05:00:13 pm
It's likely that he's busy looking for something to wear that goes good with blue and gold.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 06:02:52 pm
Congratulations, Mark!
Your IQ score is 127

This number is based on a scientific formula that compares how many questions you answered correctly on the Classic IQ Test relative to others.

Your Intellectual Type is Facts Curator. This means you are highly intelligent and have picked up an impressive and unique collection of facts and figures over the years. You've got a remarkable vocabulary and exceptional math skills ó which puts you in the same class as brainiacs like Bill Gates. And that's just some of what we know about you from your test results.

And in review. "The Roop" is also smart enough to not send these people any money for the formal report. I liked the old boards better when these pop ups weren't everywhere. But Pat has to pay the bills.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 06:25:45 pm
mwc4life-
so that is Browns big skill?
The Dunk?

Dunk, dunk, ball stoien, dunk, miss.  6 points.
Trey, miss, miss, trey, miss, rebound, 2pt'er.  8points.

Has beens win again!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 06:39:43 pm
Jeff,

I detected an anti Republican tone to one of your previous posts. Is there a special section at Saints Rest for people like me, or will I be denied entry entirely??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 07:01:25 pm
Roop- didn't you read the post thoroughly? There are no Republicans left in Grinnell!
Enter at your own risk. ;D

Hey, Mark/Roop- you're not conversing with yourself on this board again, are you?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 20, 2005, 07:12:33 pm
Roop - a joke I just heard, in your honor:

Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and George W Bush somehow find themselves in a small Central American country, facing a firing squad.

Clinton is the first to be placed in front of the wall.  As the commands to the squad are being called out, he screams "Earthquake!"  In the ensuing panic and confusion, he scrambles over the wall and escapes.

Gore is next - remembering his former boss's tactic, when the time comes he screams "Tornado!"  He, too, is able to use the confusion to escape.

Now it is Bush's turn.  He analyzes the tactics of his predecessors and realizes he too can escape by warning of a disaster.  When the moment comes, he screams "Fire!"

[Yeah, I confess I saw the punch line coming a mile away, too!  ;D]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 07:24:50 pm
Jeff,

I read that there were no Grinnell Republicans left. There's a difference.

I wasn't conversing with myself, rather I was commenting on the number of ads there seems to be these days.

Mr. Ypsi,

I was on Safari recently (it's my browser so there is an element of truth to this) when I slipped and fell into a pit. After shaking off my fall I found myself surrounded by a lion, tiger and a CCIW fan. After checking my rifle I found that I only had two bullets left. So I shot the CCIW fan twice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 07:29:46 pm
Read my post again, Roop!
(boy, do I like the 'edit' feature!) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 20, 2005, 07:34:20 pm
Roop,

That probably WAS the wisest choice!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 07:38:52 pm
Jeff,

Per your request I have re-read the post in question and I have a new question. What is a "repubican"?? Perhaps you should have fallen in love with the editing feature sooner  :D

I'm also disapppointed that you did not applaud my Macintosh joke.

Mr. Ypsi,

I don't have a license for lions and tigers but CCIW fans are a "non-protected" species.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 07:50:46 pm
Why Rop whtever are you taking about?

You get a karma point for the safari joke AND the CCIW joke, though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 07:52:53 pm
Tkhnas PeffG
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 20, 2005, 07:55:34 pm
Early,


I'm old enough to be your teammate, coach, fan, dad, roommate, assistant, and friend. "Dr. Jones"


Jeffp,

I think it would go more like dunk...yeahhhh, dunk...yeahhhhh, turnover, lay-up...booooo,foul, foul, foul
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 07:59:35 pm
Not true mwc4life,

I'm told Grinnell has hired WWE Officials so there will be no fouls at Darby this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 08:17:16 pm
mwc4life-
You are mistunderstanding the Grinnell fan reaction to an opponents dunk. Those are jeers, not cheers.

Roop- wrong again. We have hired Florida Election officials. It guarantees a win no matter what the foul count.

Man, I gotta get some student/employees back from break! These 15 hour shifts are toasting me! There is an upside for all of you though. I don't have Internet access at home any more, so all posting will be done from the store. I can be prolific now because of long shifts. I don't plan on staying late much during GBall season though, so you all can clobber me and GC without much threat of quick retaliation.;-)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 20, 2005, 08:27:56 pm

Mr. Ypsi,

I don't have a license for lions and tigers but CCIW fans are a "non-protected" species.  :P

That's because there are so MANY CCIW fans, we'll never be endangered!  Now MWC, let's see, there's you and JeffP and ... (patience, it will come to me!)  ;)

[Apologies to the other dedicated fans, but it was irrisistible.]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 08:33:22 pm
I didn't realize there was ever any threat of retaliation from you.  :P

Florida was a long time ago Jeff. A "W" is still a "W" no matter how you count it....

Is "The Roop" on a roll or what............... :o

Mr. Ypsi,

To be honest I'd prefer to make cracks about WIAC Fans, but they aren't literate enough to post here.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 20, 2005, 08:58:40 pm
Roop,

Probably a severe 'haiku deficiency' in their diet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 20, 2005, 09:12:49 pm
Mr. Ypsi,

Could be anything, I reckon. But I doubt there are any of them about tonight or we would have heard from them by now. Assuming of course that they can take a subtle hint.

That being said, I think I'm done for the evening. Still trying to translate a b-day card from overseas. When will Russia learn that English IS the Universal language and that they should get with the program ??

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 09:26:52 pm
Roop-
A 'w' is still a 'w' allright. No matter how a 'w' achieves it. :D :D :D

g'night all ye dwindling number of loyal Republicans, the hole in front of the store still has plenty of room in it...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 20, 2005, 09:33:42 pm
Now before any of you get yer buns in an uproar, I don't put much truck in Democrats either. Too freakin' queasy for me!

Give me an Abbie Hoffman Radical any day!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 20, 2005, 11:46:47 pm
MWC4life,

Perhaps you should go back, read the posts you are referencing, look up satire and consider your post:

 "First of all, i have to commend you on your love for your bucs.  You sound like a die-hard fan who wants more then anything to have these guys compete for a championship season and that's cool, but the reality is a little different.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but every year Dolph, you say the same thing about the incoming freshman, the core group of guys, the star in Hinz/flowers (whomever), the stars to be...etc and the same results happen...whether it's underachieving or what."

Far from being a die-hard fan, I have been a frequent critic of the curren situation at Beloit and the excuses that others have made for the failures of the past few years.  My post was a summary of the "awesome talent" that Beloit has this year as explained in an earlier post by a true "Die Hard" Beloit fan.  In it I was asking, if Beloit does not make the top four with this "talented roster" would the blame then finally move to the coaching staff?

I am a Beloit fan and want them to do well.  However, nothing I have seen in the past seven years gives me reason to believe this year will be any different.

I am curious where you came up with the idea that "every year I say the same thing" about the Bucs being good since last year (my first on this board) Beloit fans were openly critical of me for not being a supporter of the program.

Nice try though
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 21, 2005, 12:13:48 am
Yes, we hear every year about the great talent at BC. They have experience this year, however this group has not experienced winning. They have no winning seasons since 2001-2002. This year the coaching staff will really be under pressure. 12 wins in two years is not cutting it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on October 21, 2005, 01:22:39 am
Dolph... that's 80 bucks for the use of my copyrighted screenname in your posts  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 21, 2005, 09:59:37 am
"Dolph... that's 80 bucks for the use of my copyrighted screenname in your posts "

no problem DieHard, the checks in the mail. ;)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 21, 2005, 10:05:35 am
Dolph,

My apologizes then.  I was going by memory and this wouldn't be the first time it has let me down.  Maybe i had mistaken the comments made at his site for some other "die-hard" bucs fan.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 21, 2005, 10:15:12 am
The Safari joke was totally useless (and hilarious... shot the CCIW fan twice... I love it), but I applaud the budding rivalry between boards, especially since the MWC is passing the CCIW board in terms of volume and April seems to have shifted the majority of her posting over here as well.  This board really is flying; I didn't check in yesterday afternoon and my last post had dropped back three pages.

Republicans, NO!
Democrats are clueless too
Bring back the Bull Moose!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 21, 2005, 10:34:37 am
Now before any of you get yer buns in an uproar, I don't put much truck in Democrats either. Too freakin' queasy for me!

Give me an Abbie Hoffman Radical any day!

This from a guy who's store hosted a Dennis Kucinich rally!

The thing I want to know about the GC "has beens" is, does that mean the writer thinks that the Pioneers were a "real" team for a while. Don't you have to be a "was " before you become a "has been"?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 21, 2005, 11:13:32 am
mwc4life,  dang....I must be getting old too then.  :-\
p.s. I'm still waiting for that phone call!  :P

has beens, never was, never gonna be

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 21, 2005, 11:28:23 am
AM-Remember, we hosted 'W' in 2000 too. Equal Opportunity (for ridicule at the Saints).
BTW, I kinda wondeered about the 'has been' thing, too!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 21, 2005, 01:03:59 pm
AM-Remember, we hosted 'W' in 2000 too. Equal Opportunity (for ridicule at the Saints).
BTW, I kinda wondeered about the 'has been' thing, too!

So that's how you found those Republicans to fill the whole in front of your store... :D

As far as the "has beens" comment, I think we should take it easy on them.
It was the their first post, and they're a Beloit fan. We don't need to make things worse for them ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 21, 2005, 01:58:47 pm

No but you have to teach them right, so they won't remain a jerk (it takes a village, you know).



And don't be ripping on Kucinich.  This country needs a wierd little president who looks like a cross between Elmer Fudd (circa 1934) and if someone painted a face on the backside of a mule.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 21, 2005, 02:12:02 pm
I'm just rippin' on Demos and Repos, Hoops. DK hardly fit the mold-one big plus in my book. I gotta say that his stump here at Sts Rest was solid but his responses to good questions left some desire. Most of the others I met were so taylored, spit polished, and square that it was staggering. They all seem to have mastered the art of answering questions without saying a damn thing.

Er, Oh. Is this a BBall forum? I guess I helped get us off on a tangent a few posts back. Sorry! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 21, 2005, 03:35:28 pm
Alrighty then, basketball it is...(although it won't seem like the MWC site if we strictly stick to bb...)

With the tournament expanding to 59 teams this year, does Larry's performance over the past two years give the MWC a chance of landing a second team in the tourney this year? Do we need to have two dominant teams to do that? What kind of record will those teams need?

I think we'd need to have a team get through the conference with no more than two losses (and lose the auto bid in the MWC tournament) to get that second bid.

Any thoughts out there? Any guesses on who that could be?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 21, 2005, 04:39:27 pm
One problem facing the conference in getting multiple teams in is the number of games they are allowed to play. 23. Then if teams play out of region or NAIA games, which don't count for anything, they're 4 or 5 games behind the rest of the country. A 19-6 MWC Tournament finalist could get overlooked in favor of a 19-8 team from another conference due to strength of schedule.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 21, 2005, 04:42:15 pm
It's not necessarily about talent for those Pool C bids.  The question is who has the schedule to make a run at the at-large.  The way I see it, a bunch of the MWC teams have a tough enough schedule to pull off a bid, assuming they can get to 18 or 20 wins.  I could see the MWC #2 at least being in the conversation with 4 conference losses, but that's about as low as I'd go, plus they would need good results from the non-conference schedule.  Even with the extra Pool C bids, I don't see them going much farther than a 7 loss team.  Then again, its the first year of the expanded tourney; who knows what might happen?



By the way, after Al Sharpton, Kucinich was by far my favorite Democratic Presidential Candidate.

Although this is coming from a man who's voted for John McCain on every presidential ballot he's ever cast... maybe this time I won't have to write him in.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 21, 2005, 04:45:07 pm

Roop, you just beat me to the punch.  Schedule is the big thing.  The MWC seems to have some decent non-conference opponents though.  You never know exactly how the CCIW and WIAC teams will finish, but solid wins against these teams early on will do nothing but help the conference overall.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 21, 2005, 04:50:46 pm
HoopsFan,

It's just one of those things about the MWC that I've never cared for. There are enough schools in the area that teams could play 50 "in region" games a season  and never miss a class unless they wanted to.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 21, 2005, 07:23:59 pm
I think its possible, but you guys all hit the difficulties involved. Early non-conference performance by MWC teams could make the difference, especially if we all beat up on each other during the conference. Best Scenario might have a 15-1 or 14-2 dominant team get upset in the MWC tourney.

Grinnell may be able to help this year with a schedule that only includes two non-region games (3 if you count what I think is an exhibition game with South Australia), and both of those are with good NAIA teams. GC always has a tough time scheduling regional non-conference games because of the system. Nobody wants to get whacked early in the year, and that is always a possibility when you play GC. Having 2 games with Iowa Conference opponents (Cornell and Wartburg), an early game with another system team(MacMurray) and what could possibly be a very interesting matchup with Carthage should  help strengthen the "appearance factor" for the conference.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 21, 2005, 07:54:17 pm
Roopadamus says that 12-4 wins the regular season this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 21, 2005, 08:33:29 pm
Roop-my gut feeling is that your scenario is much more likely than mine.

Sheesh, we are agreeing alot this year. That's a bit frightening, eh?  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 21, 2005, 08:39:15 pm
Jeff,

I don't ever recall any serious disagreements between us. Fear not, you are compliant with the New Roop Order.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 21, 2005, 08:52:53 pm
The New Roop Order
JeffP in a Beloit shirt
Grinnell is Pool C
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 22, 2005, 01:06:58 am
I called my wife 38 times tonight and she didn't answer once. I guess I'm the crazy one.


Anyway, about basketball, I see alot of parity in the league this year with as many as 8 teams having a shot at the tournament going into the last weekend. Beloit and Carroll will be out of it by Christmas. Hinz will go for 100 in the two Grinnell games though. He looked good on tv, what a tough guy. So angry and strong.


jeffp...where is Saints Rest in Grinnell...is it near the park...how I love the park in autumn-I'm tempted to come in for a football game...I wish I could live in Grinnell again and just forget everything.

I have a question/comment...Where is Steve Kohl...I read about his exploits on the conference website for years and I read his comments on posting up, but he's nowhere to found...Steve, if you're out there, what's going to happen with Ripon this year...Have you met the freshmen...Did you show them a thing or two on the old hardwood...of course you did...anyway, let us know how everything is going.

I miss the seasons.

Never get married

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 22, 2005, 08:16:00 am
Yeah! Where is Kohl?, Digs?, Busdriver?, Maverick? GoNubs? It's Tiiiime! Oh well. I hear Sager is missing too!

Saints Rest is 1/2 block from Central Park-right across the street from Stewart Library and next to the Varsity News Stand. Stop in if you get the chance, GF68.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 22, 2005, 04:03:31 pm
Near Central Park. Hmmmmmmmmm. Is it located in a section of town called Grinnage Village ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 23, 2005, 09:02:13 pm
"Beloit and Carroll will be out of it by Christmas."

Based on what pray tell?  I am as hard on Beloit as anyone on this board but do look for them to be much improved.  Perhaps you have them at 0-2 based on their visits to Grinnell and Monmouth prior to the holidays?  Even so, that would hardly qualify as "out of it." 

As for Carroll, I look for them to be a major threat this year.  They were part of the northern half of the conference's dominance last season (that should get some posting going) and may be better this year.  They have some brutal NC games early with Whitewater, Oshkosh and Carthage but it would not surprise me at all to see them playing in the MWC final four again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 23, 2005, 09:20:33 pm
If Carroll figures out how to win road games prior to February they are a lock for the MWC Tournament. Beloit has .500 potential. This could be one of those years when 8-8 gets in. As long as they win @Grinnell it will be a successful season as far as I'm concerned.
 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 24, 2005, 09:32:06 am

I'm going to predict a 13-3 season to win the conference, I guess just to be different.  Although it seems darn near impossible to get through the whole schedule with less than 4 losses, it's just a feeling that somebody is going to pull it off this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on October 24, 2005, 03:53:38 pm
Going out on a limb here:

Top 4
Lawrence:  13-3 (good call Hoops fan)
Carroll:  11-5
Ripon:  10-6
Beloit:  10-6

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 24, 2005, 04:36:05 pm
"The Roop",

Last year 8-8 was only 6th place for Knox, and 10-6 was the draw for the tourny.  I can't see 8-8 making the Conference Tourny.

Just for fun I'll throw this out:

1. Ripon
2. Lawry
3. LFC
4. Carroll

Reserve Grinnell

I'm leaving the records out....I see the top teams beating up on the lower half.

??? I was asking myself the same questions jeffp and GrinnellFan68.....Kohl we miss you!!!! ???

We want Pre-nup
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 24, 2005, 04:52:53 pm
I don't think 8-8 will make it this year either, but it has happened before. In fact wasn't there a year when two 8-8s made it, or am I just inventing that ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on October 24, 2005, 06:23:25 pm
MC, last team not to get in last year....

Lost their best all-around player but everyone else is back, plus some key help...

Look out!

Dare I say it...
MC Basketball in 06'? whether you like it or not!!

Truth be told i dont fully believe in it just yet, but i can dream cant i?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 24, 2005, 09:49:58 pm
Going out on a limb here:

Top 4
Lawrence:  13-3 (good call Hoops fan)
Carroll:  11-5
Ripon:  10-6
Beloit:  10-6


Since T-Bird was the only one to provide records...
This scenario would require that one of the 5 or 6 loss teams beat Larry on their floor during the tournament. If they're a full two games ahead of these teams, that in itself might be harder than getting two teams in the tournament.

My thought is that we have to have two teams with no more than 4, possibly 5, total losses that play each other in the championship game. That likely means we would have to have a 14-2 and a 13-3 team in the conference. Given the history of the past two years and the fact that Breier is still there, Larry seems like a good choice for being one of those two teams. I just don't know who the other is. Unfortunately, I don't think it will be my Pioneers, just because the style of play doesn't lend itself to that kind of record. That said, if they sneak into the tournament, they could be the type of team that gets hot and beats a 14-2 champion to win the auto bid.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 24, 2005, 11:16:08 pm
My thought is that we have to have two teams with no more than 4, possibly 5, total losses that play each other in the championship game.

5 losses is also about all I can imagine the 2nd MWC team having to make the tournament as a Pool C. This would likely require going unbeaten in their non-conference schedule as well. Can anyone even do that this year ???

Lawrence has the most to lose by getting upset in the MWC Tournament, even if it was in the title game, and is least likely to get a Pool C of any possible contender. Here's why............. For the sake of argument I'll give them a 13-3 conference record and also say that they go undefeated in the non-conference schedule. They simply don't play enough games this year to accumulate the Pool C points.

Once again they play a D1 Exhibition, so that's one less game than everyone else. Then they travel to California to play in the same Vanguard (NAIA) University Tournament as Beloit. There's two more games that won't count for anything. As far as the NCAA Tournament is concerned Lawrence only has a 20 game schedule this year. So if they lost, even in the title game of the MWC, the best record they could have would be 18-4. 18 win teams get left out all the time.

Even though the tournament expands this year there is no good reason for any MWC teams to play D1 exhibitions or out of region games. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 24, 2005, 11:39:35 pm
1 LU
2 Ripon
3. Carroll
4. LFC or BC (Guard play will be critical for both)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2005, 11:48:02 pm
Roop,

Although reputation, of course, doesn't OFFICIALLY count, I could easily see 'Larry' getting in with 18 wins - their run in the tourney last year WILL count, even if not officially.

They certainly would have a better chance of getting in with a 'borderline' record than any other MWC team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 25, 2005, 12:25:42 am
Mr. Ypsi,

IWU is in a similar situation in the CCIW. With their D1 exhibition, NAIA and out of region D3 games, they only have a 19 game schedule as I see it; possibly less depending on how the in season tournaments play out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 25, 2005, 12:39:45 am
roop,

I haven't checked the schedules for sure, but I think this is a fairly standard Titan year - the d1 exhibition is unusual, but they always play SEVERAL out-of-region games.  Seems to work OK!

Win the AQ and the rest is irrelevant!  (And in 2001 we squeaked in with a 3rd CCIW pool C [correction: finished 3rd in CCIW; 2nd C bid], and finished 3rd in the country!)

But, yeah, it sometimes backfires - there have been years we got left out when we were certainly among the top half of teams that got in.  Potent [out-of-region] national teams prepare you for the conference season, but they do little [officially, nothing] on selection day.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on October 25, 2005, 08:41:53 am
The number of wins does not appear to be a big factor in the Division III selection process.  Of all the Primary Criteria, it seems that "win-loss percentage vs regional opponents" and the "Quality of Wins Index" are the biggies.

One could argue that games vs strong NAIA teams like Olivet Nazarene, St. Xavier, and Westmont (as IWU is playing) are a good thing in that you are playing against Division III top 25 caliber teams without risking a) a hit in win-loss %, and b) a 6 or 7 point entry in the QOWI by losing a Division III game.  You could also argue that in some respects playing some good NAIA teams is better than playing bad Division III in-region teams in that a win vs a bad D3 in-region team (under .333 winning %) will be 8 or 9 points in the QOWI.  You want your QOWI to be 10+, so and 8 or 9 actually brings it down.

2005-06 Championship Handbook...

http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2006/2006_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf

I actually think a schedule like IWU's this year is just about right for a strong team in a strong conference.  The Titans have plenty of opportunities to pick up wins vs good in-region D3 teams (Wabash, Chicago, Wash U, Illinois College, Hanover) and the games that "don't count" (U. of Illinois, St. Xavier, Olivet Nazarene, Texas-Dallas, Puget Sound, Westmont) are against  good competiton.  I say "for a team in a strong conference" because in the CCIW you'll get a chance to pick up good in-region wins and raise your QOWI by beating the likes of Augustana, Elmhurst, North Central, Carthage, etc -- teams that should have good non-conference records.  (The down side of playing in a strong conference of course is the fact you will lose some league games, thus hurting your win-loss % - playing in-region D3 cupcakes in the non-conf. can help this.)

IWU Schedule...
http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb-sked05.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on October 25, 2005, 08:54:12 am
I hope you are all right and I am wrong but I am puzzled by the love being shown Beloit when picking a final four.

A team like Knox finished 8-8 and returns four of their five starters (unless someone left I am unawre of).  Monmouth was 9-7 and returns four as well.  Yet, not once have I seen these schools considered as one of the teams to make the final four while Beloit returns the majority of a 5-11 squad and everyone seems to want to give them a spot.

It might happen, I hope it happens but I will have my doubts until it does.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on October 25, 2005, 11:34:04 am
Dolph

several days ago I listed Knox in my top 5.  I think they have two of the top 10 players in the league.  Their challenge is depth, even within their starting 5.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: beloitfan57 on October 25, 2005, 04:39:52 pm
my personal opinion, has been changing of late and i think you will see ripon,lawrence,knox and grinnel in the final four. i dont think my team will stay together as a team. last year i saw a lot of teams in this conference. all i can this conference is up for grabs. their are two teams that have no chance. st.nobert and illinois college, returning leading scorer from last year averaged 5.4ppg, that cant be a good thing.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 25, 2005, 05:02:53 pm
Did anyone else read/see that player from Morris that died in a football celebration of taking down the goal posts?  That is trajic. 

lu_nut, who are knox's studs....I don't remember them from last year?

I hope I get some more support from the RC crew come season   
:(† <-- this is me pouting
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on October 25, 2005, 10:26:53 pm
maclin (might have lead the MWC in scoring...did much of the year) and Zirks(transfer down last year from d 2 I think.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: steve_kohl on October 26, 2005, 12:02:37 pm
Am i really getting called out on the D3hoops board?  Wow.  I've been out of the RC loop, and don't have much to add, but i can see the hawks being very competitive with their three returning starters from last year McMullen, Johnson, and Schmitting.  I haven't heard much about their freshmen, but i did hear that they have an ultra-athletic guy who's last name i believe is Brown.  I'm not sure how much he'll play as a freshman, but he might be a guy to remember down the road.

The loss of Becker and Massen will hurt, but i think their core is definitely strong enough to get them back to the tourney.

I'm back baby!!!  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 26, 2005, 12:15:11 pm
Welcome home, Sir!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: steve_kohl on October 26, 2005, 12:24:05 pm
I believe I'll be heading up to GB on Nov. 1 and watching them play, so I'll have a better update on the team then.  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 26, 2005, 04:20:34 pm
Better dead than red.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 26, 2005, 04:32:02 pm
steve kohl's back! Just where he ought to be...it has been a while my friend.

The real reason I post is that I am planning a trip to Grinnell soon to maybe catch a football game, maybe a basketball game, and maybe try to find a beautiful professor to go home with.

But jeffp, I was just wondering what your specials are this time of year. I don't want the Poopaccino or scones, but I would love some good coffee and waffles.

Go Fighting Pioneers!!!

popquiz for jeffp...In what residence hall did the pig get slaughtered?

I know not many of you care that much, but my life is back in order somewhat. Edith and her Spanish friend have broken up and she says she's coming home soon. Oh, Edith. You're so pretty.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 26, 2005, 04:44:25 pm
GF68,

I think we all care to a point but when you post comments that we can't reply to, well, we can't reply to them. That being said. I'd withhold any beautiful professor comments from a public forum such as this. You never know who reads the boards and who doesn't.

A bird in hand, etc...........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 26, 2005, 05:01:41 pm
The real reason I post is that I am planning a trip to Grinnell soon to maybe catch a football game, maybe a basketball game, and maybe try to find a beautiful professor to go home with.

I can't believe that Roop let this gf68 post pass by without a quip about women in birkenstocks and tie-dyed t-shirts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 26, 2005, 05:10:07 pm
Don't worry Greg I didn't miss that rather I passed on it; for now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 27, 2005, 08:03:57 am
GF68-
Langan Hall-under the direction of a Resident Advisor, either Zeltie or the short guy that looked like Bill Dana, I can't remember.

Gettin' to be about time for an ID here, huh?

We seldom do specials because we just think it's pretty special that we're still here, with all the road construction this year! Definitely no waffles, just coffee, espresso, rolls, muffins, cookies and such.

Boy, are GC practices looking good! The 'lines' are being chosen and look like they work VERY well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 27, 2005, 08:47:15 am
jeffp,
How do you find time to get to the GC practices?  I mean if they are only 45 minutes long, that's a short window to make.  And by looking good you really mean they are just making their 3's.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 27, 2005, 09:10:46 am
Grinnell practices are only 45 minutes long? Wow. Is that because of a school policy regarding practice times, or is it at the discretion of the coaching staff?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on October 27, 2005, 09:17:17 am
Greg:

If they run as fast in practice as they do in games, perhaps 45 minutes is all they can physically endure.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 27, 2005, 09:22:11 am
Good point, Warren, but it makes me wonder if the words "Grinnell walk-through practice" might be an oxymoron. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on October 27, 2005, 09:26:45 am
As well, Greg, they likely want to use the portable oxygen bottles in actual games only ....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 27, 2005, 10:33:29 am
Where did the 45 minute BS come from? In the past i have stayed WAY longer than 45 minutes without seeing either the begininng or end or practice.

Yeah, Early is the source for that, right? Yup, they just run around making  treys, but they look good doing that.

Walking through the cow flowers today, aren't we? ;-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 27, 2005, 10:38:25 am
BTW-those of you living in Chicago right now might want to catch Metromix TV this week. The production; "Flaming Dames in Vamp" is mentioned in the 'Get Out' segment. My daughter and irregular d3hoops poster 'That Girl' has a feature role in the production. Runs 2 more weekends at midnight at the National Pastime Theatre on North Broadway.

The show will be on CLTV tonight (thurs) at 8:30pm and repeated several times this weekend.

Always knew she would hit Broadway!! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 27, 2005, 01:23:37 pm
Congrats Jeff, are you going to get to go see it in person?


By the way, Pat says that the Pre-season Top 25 is done and will be posted soon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 27, 2005, 02:24:59 pm
Jeffp,

In fairness to Early, I do remember someone from Grinell stating that they have shorten practices due to their up-tempo play.  But I also remember that being near the end of the season and as we all know practices become shorter and shorter at the end of the year. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 27, 2005, 02:33:38 pm
Hoops Fan - yup, planning to go see the production the last night (nov. 5). 'That Girl' says it could be a wild night for an already wild show.

Sounds like she will be able to get home for Thanksgiving and the Aussie game. The promoter for the Aussie team says it could be one high scoring free wheeling game, so it could be almost as much fun as watching my daughter do a burlesque show (every father's dream, ya know)!

mwc4life-just talked to someone involved in GC practices. They just shook their head,  and replied; "whatever". I'm sure it will get mentioned to the team. Practice tonight may involve rolling around on the ground and holding sides while laughing hysterically.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 27, 2005, 02:56:31 pm

The last time I checked, the only way to be able to run around like maniacs for 40 minutes (in 45-60 second bursts) is to run around A LOT in practice.

Jeff, the way you're pimping this Australia game, I need to figure out how to get there.  Unintelligable accents and tons of tall white guys slapping each other (also an accurate description of creepy German porn).


By the way, I just used the word 'pimping' in a sentence without thinking and then could not come up with a synonym that would equally convey my meaning.  Urban culture may have to come up with a new word to describe empassioned advocacy... in all likelihood, they already have.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 27, 2005, 03:50:25 pm
There are several possible synonyms but "bussin" is most accurate.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 27, 2005, 04:16:36 pm
Pimpin' to the extreme! Why? I love GC, plus the guy who arranges games and helps recruit US players for most Australian teams is a long-time great friend originally from Grinnell. His name is Dave Adkins and he has written fine book called "A Journey in Basketball" that chronicles his recruiting efforts for the country of Australia, his personal and quite inspiring life, and plenty in between. If you are around for that game, I'll try to get you an autographed copy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 27, 2005, 04:18:06 pm

Jeff, the way you're pimping this Australia game, I need to figure out how to get there. Unintelligable accents and tons of tall white guys slapping each other (also an accurate description of creepy German porn).


You want to get the boys laughing jeffp, tell them that someone compared there game to german porn. Yikes!

I'm not sure which is worse, that you made the comparison, or that you know what german porn is like. Either way, it is more than a bit creepy. Down goes your Karma...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 27, 2005, 04:36:25 pm
jeffp,
mwc4life did back me up there.  I did "hear" not see that GC has 45 minutes of practice, and all they do is shoot threes.  There is no actual evidence from me for that statement.  I just thought it would spark some convo.  I got a kick out of it. 
Good to see Greg Sager back!! 

† :D Let's go Hawks!!!† ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 27, 2005, 05:55:48 pm

I won't really be able to make the Australia game (Thanksgiving at the in-laws); I don't really watch German porn, it was a joke, I thought that was clear; I meant the 'pimping' comment as a self-depricating remark to imply that I'm too white to use that word, so urban culture will need to get a new one.


I'm at work way too late.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 27, 2005, 06:48:33 pm
Just got back from the GC men's soccer win over Simpson. You all should know that the Men's Basketball team ALREADY knows about the 'german porn' comparison.

they loved it, but liked my 'walking through the cow flowers' comment better. Seems they have more contact with cow flowers than German Porn OR 45 minute practices!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 28, 2005, 08:42:20 am

I won't really be able to make the Australia game (Thanksgiving at the in-laws); I don't really watch German porn, it was a joke, I thought that was clear; I meant the 'pimping' comment as a self-depricating remark to imply that I'm too white to use that word, so urban culture will need to get a new one.


I'm at work way too late.

You are at work too late if you took my comment seriously...

I forgot to add the appropriate smiley characters. So belatedly... :D ;D :D

(I guess I should be equally concerned that the team understood the german porn reference. Of course, the word here is concerned...not surprised!)  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on October 28, 2005, 09:47:33 am
Jeffp

How far is it from Broad St to Broadway?   Congrats.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 28, 2005, 10:04:14 am

That brings up a good question in my mind.  I wonder how many of these d3 players that we talk about all the time actually monitor these boards on a regular basis?

I know there was one or two who did back when I was in school, but d3hoops.com (http://www.d3hoops.com) wasn't the international phenomenon it is now.

I'm glad they mostly refrain from posting until after graduation, but do you think its widespread that they are reading what we're saying?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 28, 2005, 10:21:14 am
Now, Now, AM! I said they KNEW about it and loved it, not that they understood it!

Hoops-yup! widespread!

Digs - 310 miles from Broad to North Broadway and another 1500 to Broadway; last leg yet to be traveled. Thanks, Digs and HoopsFan for the congrats!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 28, 2005, 12:54:18 pm
If any of you in the Chicago area caught Metromix TV last night on CLTV, it was "that girl" standing with the blond MC in the still that was used.

Not only is she on (N.) Broadway, now she is on TV! you can catch that show again several times this weekend, or better yet, go see the production! She is one of us, after all. And I've heard they play baskeball during the performance!

 ;D ::) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on October 28, 2005, 01:05:50 pm
How is it that Lawrence is left out of the top 25? Did I miss something?  They do have their all-american Chris Briar coming back right?  Lawrence did lose 3 starters last year in Falls, Holinbeck, and Evans.  Kyle McGillis is back, however, and he played starter + minutes last year.  How is it that Lawrence can beat UW-Oshkosh and UW-Platteville last year (both on their home floors) and be thought so much inferior?  Gustavus lost their best player and they are still entrenched in the top 25.  I don't think Lawrence or the MWC has gained as much respect nationally as the people on this board believe.  It was evident when Lawrence was on the road in the first round of the tournament last year and it is evident now.  Its ok though, this can be a annual tradition.  Teams like UW-whitewater (always over-hyped) can slowly but steadily drop in rank every week, and Lawrence can claw and scratch their way back to respectability.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 28, 2005, 01:24:50 pm
I was wondering when the MWC would get angry about the slight.

I think Lawrence got hosed by the voters, but then again the posters in this room don't seem to be decribing Larry as the immovable object that they seemed to be last year?  I don't really know what to make of it.  I thought the voters would give them a little more love, but I'll let the real experts give the analysis.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 28, 2005, 02:04:22 pm
HOW ABOUT THOSE WHITE SOX! WORLD SERIES CHAMPS! IT'S ABOUT TIME.
Monmouth and knox will challenge for te playoffs along with ripon, carroll, lawrence, LFC and  BC. Safe to say no one is exactly a lock for the top spot this season.
Maybe LU did get shafted by not being in the top 25, but they r certainly not the team of the past two years. Illinois Wesleyan will have a special year. I saw them last year and was very impressed. Surprisingly they have Illinois (the fighting Illini) on the schedule in Nov.
Anyone wanna give their MWC preseason poll and all conference team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on October 28, 2005, 02:09:35 pm
Larry got overlooked, as usual. 

Time will tell.  If they beat UW-Oshvegas, will they then be #2 in the nation (no, that is not a prediction by me, just an observation)? I recall that is called the transitive theory of ranking.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 28, 2005, 02:28:28 pm
I would say that Lawry did get over looked.  With some key players back especially Briar.  What did they have 25 votes?  Even if they beat UWO I don't think they will get the #2 spot.  In the 2001-2002 season, we played Illinios Wesleyan when they were ranked in the top 5 (#2 or so I don't remember exactly) and beat them by 22 and were not put in the top 15.  So I doubt Lawry would jump that high.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 28, 2005, 02:29:47 pm
24 votes....I figured I could actually take the time to check it out huh?  :-\


 :) ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 28, 2005, 02:32:02 pm
I totally agree with LU 05.  The amount of respect given to the MWC is obviously about the same as it was 5 years ago.  Say what you want to say about LU losing 3 good starters from LU's great teams the last 3 years, but they still have a great all-american returning along with another outstanding player in McGillis.  This is a "pre-season" poll.  No one has proven anything yet, but what LU has proven year in and year out for 3 years that they are among the best in the country(as i recall, LU was never that great until this certain All- American started playing ball...well he is still there).  LU also beat Ripon twice last year who was a top 25 team almost all year.  Ripon killed Hanover on a neutral court who finished 7th last year and is high in the pre-season rankings again.  I believe Hanover beat Ill. Wesylen in the playoffs and Ripon also beat Augustana on the road, which i don't think Wesylen did ( i could be wrong).  A couple years ago Ripon beat Babson and Keene State badly out in some tournament and they were amoung the top teams in the East.  Ok, i need to calm down, but it seems like there are a lot of talented teams in the midwest (mainly WI, IL, MI, MN) and most of them aren't recognized because of spots that need to be filled out east or out west. 

Someone put me in my place...cause i know it's going to happen.

PS, this was no shot at Ill. Wesylen, they are consistantly a great team and deserve whatever preseason ranking they get.  It was more of a measuring stick to the rest of the teams in the country.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 28, 2005, 02:54:25 pm
Did LU get overlooked, yeah, probably. But in a preseason ranking process, losing three starters is probably not a small issue - from the looks of it, it WAS a big thing. I don't think getting worked up about it is worth the effort. The fact that LU received votes is a nod to the big fella that's still there, but until Larry proves that losing three starters isn't a problem, they're not going to move higher.

Also, we need to be careful about using that "transitive property' of games played. Grinnell beat Wartburg who was ranked most of the year. Does that mean that this  year's Grinnell team should be considered? ??? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 28, 2005, 03:07:06 pm
systemfan86,


While you are right in that we or I should be careful with the transitive comparisons, but they shouldn't be overlooked either.  Plus, GC only beat one team in the 25.  Ripon and LU did it more then a couple times and have done it the past 3 or 4 years. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 28, 2005, 04:07:05 pm
D4 doesn't have pre-season national polls because they don't really mean anything. The only rankings that are done come after the season and tournament is complete, that way the poll is never wrong. Individual conferences list their own pre-season favorites however and they are as follows:

LNCUTMV SNT-Hooterville and Bugtussle St. named as co-favorites, MANIAC College of St. Redskin**, UCWI Wisconsin A&M-Springstead and Morris Wanchuck University figures to be the top Independant this year.

**College of St. Redskin is ineligible for post season play this year as they do not have enough non-medical redshirts on the roster.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 28, 2005, 04:10:18 pm
I agree it would be nice to see an MWC team in the top 25 but it isn't the end of the world. I doubt it would take more than a 5 game run in the pre conference for someone like Larry or Rippy to crack the list; probably way more for any other MWC teams. We know the conference is stronger top to bottom than it has ever been-now its time to prove it to everyone else.
if I had a vote I would have to consider several glaring factors.
1. The MWC as a whole has a very limited and quite negative track record to date in tourney play
2.Last year, our best team got whacked in an early round using esentially the same players against the same team they almost beat the year before in the regional. Yes, that team went on to the Championship, but the game was not particularly close.
3. Larry lost 3 of the best players off that great team. No matter how great Braer is, it could be hard for an outsider to justify a high early ranking knowing that, with the loss of those three players 50%of the rebounding and 50% of the scoring (just estimates here) is gone.

If the top MWC teams are as good as we think, they will prove it during the season and earn the rankings they deserve.
 Shoot! Maybe they will be able to sneak up on some people this way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on October 28, 2005, 04:15:41 pm
My main problem is with the automatic respect certain teams or conferences automatically garner.  Lets all be honest.  The last two years, theres been Stevens Point and then theres everybody else.  Have Platteville and Whitewater played at a higher level against top teams than LU? Has Gustavus? Did John Carroll play Point tougher in the Final Four than LU did in the elite 8?  Speaking of losing people, Platteville lost their best player as well in Reistner.  The LU vs. Platteville game last year would not have been close if wasn't for him.  Despite this, they get a solid pre-season ranking? What have these teams done to earn this respect?  I guess the feeling must be, they played in Point's conference so they must be head and shoulders above the rest.  Its time for some other MWC schools besides Lawrence and Ripon to step up and knock some of these so called big time D3 programs of their high horses.  I am so sick of this almighty aura surrounding the mighty WIAC and  CCIW.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 28, 2005, 04:22:26 pm
I think that is kinda the the point here. We have two teams with recent no-so-good-track records except (Larrys run 2 years ago), and then everybody else.

Also, take a good hard look at the top 25 and tell us (besides the ones you mention) who shouldn't be there, and why.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on October 28, 2005, 05:20:38 pm
Wouldn't it be really cool if Grinnell was ranked #3 in the poll at any point? I think that it would be awesome because they shoot lots of 3's.

Steve Kohl v. Henry Grant...who was the better player?

Cubs in '06. It's our year baby.

Back in the 70's, I ran into Pete Newell at a basketball game. He was a gentleman. I think he was the best coach of his era. Who do you guys think is the best coach today. I guess I would go with Coach K. Those American Express commercials were pretty convincing.

:) :) :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on October 28, 2005, 05:23:07 pm
This is d3 basketball, thus, I am not able to rate all these teams personally because I have not seen all of them play.  Frankly, I haven't even heard of some of them.  However, I have seen a number of these teams play in person and on tape.  Obviously I am not going to dispute the top 3. Oshkosh lost a starter, but they do return their best players.  WE'll see how that pans out.

I saw Puget Sound play UW-Stevens Point in the 2004 tournament.  I am not convinced on Puget Sound.  I think they end up in the top ten every year because, as we all know, they are not in the midwest.  Lawrence played Lewis and Clark, who is in their conference, last year and they were just horrible.  Far worse than any MWC team.  Puget Sound would not beat Lawrence. Period.

Gustavus at #19 lost their best player in Espenson.  And I will say this, Espenson kept Gustavus in that Tourney game last year.  I don't know who else on that team is good enough to carry them to a #19 ranking.

UW-Platteville is in the same boat.  They lose an all-american who was on the team when Lawrence beat them on their own floor.  They have size, but I think Lawrence is better.  I would be surprised if Platteville schedules LU in the near future.

I would also like to remind you Jeff that Lawrence was not one and done last year.  They went on the road to one of the toughest places to play in all of d3 basketball, and beat a team from a "superior" conference.  They got drilled by point, so what?  NO ONE was beating Stevens Point last year!    

And for all of you that think LU will be down this year, beware.  I know for a fact that in the last two recruiting classes Lawrence has taken a step up in athleticism and size.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 28, 2005, 05:52:54 pm
LU 05 -
I think you are missing my point, sir. Larry was a great team the last few years and probably is a great team this year. I do happen to be one of those who think they might be down a bit this year, but those of you who read this board know how accurate my predictions are. Sure, I hope my Pioneers are better and can beat them. I just might be right. Oh yeah, I might be wrong too. So What? My point is that they have lost enough visible talent to be an unproven team. So what if they aren't ranked. The MWC has done little in the past - outside of Larrys run 2 years ago - to prove to the rest of d3 nation that they are as good -and consistent -  as we think they are. I am not dissing anybody in the MWC. It is just way too early. Pre season polls are just a lousy barometer of quality no matter what the level, and it seems somewhat counterproductive to get all cranked up about them. GF68 just made that point for us in the post preceeding yours. His criteria is just as valid in a pre season poll as any in my book. Well, almost any.
2 years ago GC hit the top 25 for the 1st time ever. It took a 13 game winning steak to do it. they proved themselves then immediately proved the fragility of such rankings by getting two key players hurt and losing a bunch in the last half of the season. It was great fun to see them ranked, but it meant nothing at all in the end. I was so proud of them then and still am. You SHOULD be proud of Larrys accomplishments to date, sir. Now let 'em prove you right. Shouldn't take more than 4 or 5 games IMHO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on October 28, 2005, 06:34:40 pm
Jeffp,

I don't think LU05 is missing the point all that much.  And as I well know we shouldn't get all hyped up about some silly preseason ranking because it's way too early, but you said it yourself.  It took Grinnell 13 games of winning to even get recognized.  That's a pretty damn big win streak.  Where would Lewis and Clark be, or Hope, or Keene State...probably in the top 25 a lot sooner.  And as much as i want to say these rankings don't mean that much, they actually kind of do.  You aren't going to gain respect early unless you beat someone ranked and until you do, you have to go on a 13 game win streak tear in order to get recongnized.  Then if you lose a game on the road to one of the "not so good" teams in our conference, you are dropped and forgotten about.  It's like the BCS, you have a better chance to move up and play for the title game if you are ranked high early.  While I personally think LU will be down this year, not nessisarily cause of lack of talent but more of lack of continuity (LU will realize just how important a 6'5 Falls, Hollenbeck was on the defensive end) it doesn't mean they don't warrent the respect that they have earned in losing that title.  Look at who the MWC has lost to in recent years (first round or not).  LU lost to UW-Point in successive years and they won the title both years.  Ripon lost to UW-Oshkosh who eventually went to the final four.  They aren't losing to some cup-cake teams.  It just so happens that the UW schools and CCIW are in our Region and time in and time out are some of the best teams in the country.  Not to mention these games are being played in their house.  Look, i know MWC has to do some more collective damage in the tourney to get the respect that we want, but i can still be tired of it.  On a neutral court, i guarentee the MWC can go toe-to-toe with just about any conference in America short of the UW schools.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 28, 2005, 08:14:26 pm
Following a 3 hour drive I am happy to say that......................

"The Roop" has finally come back to Beloit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 29, 2005, 08:23:46 am
Lu 05 and MWC4life-
Honestly, I agree with you that we don't get much respect and that we deserve more. Since we don't get it though, it should be much more productive to keep proving how good this conference is than to constantly complain about it. I don't think our complaints will foment the change we are after; it may actually cause the eye-rolling there-they-go-again kind of response that helps hold us down.
 We can't kick the CCIW and WIAC out of the region and I doubt the MWC will be moving out. Granted, if we were a West Region conference we would be in much better shape. We aren't, so we just have to live with the fact that we play in what is currently one of the toughest situations for an up and coming conference in the country. That means our one auto selection in the tourney has to shine every year. Larry did that 2 years ago, and even though Point blasted everyone last year, Larrys performance still didn't further our rep at all. The know-nothings around the country had nothing to notice. So again, lets prove who we are during the season.

I know little about football, but i know that the BCS REALLY proves my point about how silly pre season rankings are. You talk about not getting a fair shake, that baby screws plently of powerful programs from beginning to end. As long as some damn near arbitrary poll determines seedings, someone gets ripped. Figure out a way to change how it is done and then you have something, IMHO
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on October 29, 2005, 04:48:31 pm
Ive been out of town for over a week. Any Bucs fan talked to or seen how things are going there? I know theres a big shindig going on this weekend for Coach Degeorge's retirement from football. How's Hinz's hand? Hinz and Briar will be having a great battle for POY this season. Looking forward to see those games.

How is Lake Forest going to be this year? They still have the big fella Beckford in the middle. Did they get any quality freshman this year??

Kohl - Grant...who was better???  They played differnt positions and entirely diffent types of games. grant was an undersized big man who would dominate on the boards while Kohl was a great scoring point guard. I'd take em both to build a team with.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 29, 2005, 05:21:54 pm
I don't understand the Kohl-Grant comparison either. It'd be like comparing Mark Smith and Terry Kramer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dansand on October 29, 2005, 08:02:19 pm
First of all, let me say, this is not to bash the MWC, but when talking strength of conferences you can't compare them with the CCIW and WIAC. Those two leagues have produced 14 of the 31 national champions since D3 was established. They've had a total of 24 final four appearances and one of the two has had a representative in the final four in 10 of the last 11 years. Also, it's not just one dominant team in either league. Three WIAC and two CCIW teams have won national titles and four teams from each conference have made final four appearances. I'm not saying this as a CCIW homer (in fact I've made the same point about the CCIW's inability to advance teams deep into the football playoffs in the last 15 years or so), but until they can consistently get teams deep into the tournament, they really can't really complain about lack of respect.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 29, 2005, 09:42:30 pm
If the MWC was in a different region (somewhere out east for example) I think there would have been several Final Four teams by now. The conference is highly regarded these days as far as the rating services are concerned but their downfall has always been facing an eventual Final Four team in the 1st or second round.

Lately the MWC entrant has been bracketed in the west, for all practical purposes, and success has followed. That success should only continue with the expanded field. As far as multiple MWC teams getting bids and advancing....................... Seeding will certainly play a major role but the MWC schedule isn't the (Pool C) liability as it once was. So multiple teams will hopefully become the norm in the future.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 30, 2005, 01:57:30 am
Easy decision to start a team with grant. Question is what player would everyone pick to start a team with from the current crop of MWC talent. Hands down its gotta be hinz. Braier is a close 2nd.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on October 30, 2005, 04:33:14 pm
Easy decision to start a team with grant. Question is what player would everyone pick to start a team with from the current crop of MWC talent. Hands down its gotta be hinz. Braier is a close 2nd.

Errr, hands down it's Hinz?! I can see that you can make an argument, but if it's hands down between those two, it's probably Braier. He's the one who is a three-time first team player and two time player of the year. Say what you will, Braier has the hardware to back it up.

Oh, and since I'm a systemfan, I don't take either since they haven't shown me they can shoot the trey! LOL.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dansand on October 30, 2005, 06:45:33 pm
Actually, Braier hit 34% and Hinz 35% last year, both better than Grinnell's team percentage of .295. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 31, 2005, 02:01:45 am
Sorry AM but Dans got you there. Just because Hinz doesn't take threes against Grinnell doesn't mean he can't make them. His shooting touch was the first thing I noticed about him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on October 31, 2005, 08:57:21 am
Hinz and Braier?  Braier does it all, score, rebound, defend....Hinz can't do it all.  He can score and is tough to stop, but he can't shut down another team's post. 

Kohl or Grant?  that is just bizarre.  2 completely different players.  No offense steve (all though he would pro'ly be the 1st to back this up), but neither of them liked to play defense.

MWC doesn't get respect.  But we do need to help it out and get some winning in the playoffs.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on October 31, 2005, 02:06:08 pm
Those of you (us) who have been discussing pre-season rankings-check out the Oct 27 Daily Dose. the article (and discussion)  is well worth reading.

Since I couldn't find theD3cc.com site, I will congratulate the Grinnell College Men and Women for their victories in the MWC Cross Country Meet this weekend here. The Men ran injured and barely squeaked out the win while the women dominated as usual. A hearty congrats to both teams.

Also couldn't find the D3soccer.com site, so another Congrats to the Grinnell College Women's Soccer team on winning the season and the Tournament Championship of the MWC this weekend. The Championship game against Carroll was one of the most exciting soccer games I have ever witnessed. Unfortunately it ended in a shootout after 2 OTS. Especially sweet win though because GC had to play the last 18 minutes of Regulation and 20 minutes of OT with nine players after one of the GC forwards was red carded. Great win in a very physical game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 31, 2005, 05:07:57 pm
An exciting soccer game. Hmmmm, there's a first.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 31, 2005, 11:17:15 pm
What does LFC and grinnell look like this year.

1st team MWC
hinz (bc)
braier (lu)
beckford (lfc)
mcmullen (rc)
scheper (CC)

only debate is whether mcmullen will allowed to be aggressive enough offensively to attain all MVC status. other four should be locks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on October 31, 2005, 11:19:40 pm
POY wide open to any of 1st teamers. early favorites Beckford Hinz and Braier in that order.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on October 31, 2005, 11:30:21 pm
While driving home today the I39 void between Madison and Stevens Point gave me plenty of time to think. So I thought of the wager between JeffP and myself for the Dec. 2nd GC-BC game.

It made me wish that Beloit still had a JV program. That way if anyone from Grinnell was academically qualified to transfer to Beloit that they might have some chance of making a team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 01, 2005, 08:00:25 am
the game - Grinnellian Paul Nordland has a great chance this year to break in to that list. He has been on fire since the later part of the year last year. Grinnell has a solid returning team and a great 1st year class. The are working well together in practices and off the court. I think this could be a good year for them.

Roop - once again you have proved that bC fans know nothing.

 (about soccer)

no one from GC has a low enough esteem to transfer to BC, and why bother anyway? They will get to play varsity right away AND get a Grinnell degree to boot. Check your CEO's wall. She/he probably has one! :D ;D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 01, 2005, 09:09:34 am

Roop gets a smite for the soccer knock and applause for the intelligent and subtle trash talk.  Well played.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 01, 2005, 09:22:30 am
The game
I could be wrong, but I can't remember a POY that came from a team that didn't contend.  I think Braier is definitely above Hinz in ANY category, except pure scoring.
Also, I think Bo Johnson should be on your 1st team list.  He was all-conference HM last year.

jeffp.....Paul Nordland is still in school?  It seems like he has been there forever.   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 01, 2005, 09:54:16 am
Early-
Brother Steve graduated in '04, Paul is a Senior. You are really gonna think he's been here forever after this year!

Petefish! Petefish! Petefish! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on November 01, 2005, 10:04:15 am
Braier for POY
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 01, 2005, 12:16:53 pm
Ripon vs. UW-GB tonight...I'm driving up to see the game with a certain buddy of mine (mr.kohl).  Should be interesting...atleast we can see how well this years Ripon team will compete.

Brier, Hinz, Beckford are locks. Bo Johnson was a 2nd teamer last year as a Soph. I believe he was the only soph. to make 2nd team.  Look for Bo to continue to score.  I personally have my eye on Schmitting.  I'm not saying he's going to be the "Manimal," but he's going to have an impact like Hoffman had in the middle.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on November 01, 2005, 01:34:34 pm
let's talk turkey, guys and gals...

Lebron James is the best player in the world, not Chris Braier or Josh Hinz, though you'd have to give the edge to Braier or Hinz based on his 2 NCAA tournament appearances and 3 playoff appearances. Braier has been better college player than Hinz or LeBron. Bar none.

Also, jeffp, any new quotes from Coach Arseneault...We need someone on the inside getting us anecdotes.

God bless you guys, and you know who you are. You don't know what your support has meant to me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 01, 2005, 01:44:26 pm

I do like this new trend of the D1 schools scheduling d3 schools for exhibitions.  It used to be only d2 who could get these early season warm-ups, but I think maybe the big boys are realizing that solid d3 programs can give them fundamental team ball to play against, which will better prepare them for the season rather than the hot-shot all talent no skills play that half of d2 is becoming.

I'll be interested to hear your impressions from Green Bay.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on November 01, 2005, 03:01:15 pm
Where did Lebron come into the discussion. Obviously Lebron is great and might possibly be one of the top 5 greatest of all time. He might be MVP this season, but that's enough about him.

I failed to mention Nordlund. He's definetely in the running for 1st team. Schmitting in the running also. Hinz, Braier, beckford locks barring injury. Scheper should be there if he plays aggressive all  season. Same goes for mcmullen. nordlund should put up great numbers this year. He's an impossible guard for MWC guys.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 01, 2005, 03:46:53 pm
JeffP,

Would that be the famous "G"rinnell "E"ducation "D"iploma you were speaking of earlier.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on November 01, 2005, 04:14:43 pm
About the Hinz/Braier comparison....Are you saying Hinz Isn't an option for POY based on his defense?  Last I checked, he is one guy guarding one guy.  Not too many guys score on him.  It's not all his fault that the others get beat and Hinz comes off his man to take the ball and they dish to his guy.  Let's look at where the play originates from before we pass judgement.  He is a solid defender (probably not as good as Braier), but you can't say there's no way he should win POY. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 01, 2005, 04:26:56 pm
jeffp,

I realize when Steve Nordland graduated, I played against him and played against brother Paul.  One just forgets when a kid comes in as a Freshmand and plays right away how long 4 years is.  I said the same thing about Braier this year too.....It just seems like they have been there forever.

mwc4life,  give me an update of the team after the GB game.  I would like to know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 01, 2005, 05:03:00 pm
Jeffp,

You really think Nordlund is going to put up "Scuba Steve" like numbers.  Remember when Wood was averaging close to 30 a game (or more) people were reluctant to give him the award...not to mention his teams were doing quite well.  Unless he puts up close to 27pts/g and Grinell makes the playoffs, he has no chance....from past situations


This whole Brier/Hinz comparison has got to stop.  Is Hinz as good if not better scorer then Brier, probably...but that's where it stops.  Brier has won every year he's there.  Is it a coinsidence that LU has 3 playoff apperances since he's been there?  LU had Lavoy and Leverance and didn't do that much with two great players.  Brier's unselfish with the ball, plays GREAT defense, and makes his teammates that much better.  I can't say the same for Hinz. 

Early, I'll call you...hopefully :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 01, 2005, 06:46:20 pm
mwc4life-
I never said Nordy would put up wood-like numbers, although he may well do so. I said he had been on fire since the last few games of last year.  IMHO, Nordy finally began to realize his potential and now I think the rest of the conference is going to realize it too. He now has the ability to demonstrate his complete game.
A lot has to do with the surrounding team as well, and I think this years team will complement what Nordy seems to be naturally gifted at doing. I'll stick to my guns-he has a great chance to break the top 5 this year.

Early-I know what you mean, although from the stands it always seems like the opponents best players stay around longer than possible!  ;D
How about your take on a question someone posed earlier-do players pay attention to the nonsense we spew here?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 01, 2005, 11:27:04 pm
UWGB 97
Ripon 81  FINAL

Ripon actually led by 1 at the half.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 01, 2005, 11:37:51 pm
cubs,

Sounds promising for Ripon!

That's actually VERY much what I'm expecting in the IWU vs. U of Illinois exhibition - I suspect (despite coaches' warnings) that we'll shock them early with how good d3 can be, but have virtually no chance long run.  Though, who knows, maybe we'll pull the biggest upset since Chamoinade - Virginia (except, as an exhibition, I suppose it wouldn't REALLY count)!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 02, 2005, 08:45:09 am
jeffp,
I think players read this nonsense.  I know myself and most of my teamates were checking this site quite often.  Mainly my senior year I wanted to read what Kohl was posting while pretending to be working at his job.   :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on November 02, 2005, 09:48:58 am
Very impressive performance by ripon.  It sounds like UWGB is down a bit for a D1 program, but very impressive anyway.  Sounds like the frontline played a very stong game.  Schmitting's numbers look very strong.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 02, 2005, 09:57:49 am
Here is the report from the UWGB website on the Ripon/UWGB game.  I can't seem to find a boxscore anywhere.

http://www.uwgb.edu/athletics/mbb/110105b.asp
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: steve_kohl on November 02, 2005, 10:05:00 am
Ripon game last night:

First, Schmitting is a beast.  UWGB could not stop him, and i doubt anyone in the MWC will be able to either.  He should get a touch on every possession this year, which probably won't happen, because of ripon's perimeter based offense.

Second, this game was much closer than the final score.  Ripon not only had the lead at half, but they had the lead by 2 with around 10 minutes to go in the game.  I'm not going to blame the refs, but there were some questionable calls, and the fouls were 10 to 2 to start the second half in GB's favor.  A couple of technical fouls from Ripon didnt' help their cause either.  GB was in the double bonus with 10 minutes to go, and they made their free thows down the stretch.

Finally, i really like this Ripon team.  I was wondering if there was going to be a guy who stepped up his game this year other than the "big three" (McMullen, Johnson, Schmitting), and i was pleased to see that there was.  That guy was Paul Wise.  He played hard, and provided a much needed scoring punch as well.

I'm excited to see what the hawks can do the rest of the season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 02, 2005, 11:13:14 am
Way to go Hawks!!!

Kohl where did the T's come from? 
I checked out that website from cubs.  Interesting story.....mainly from the GB side, but it is THEIR website.  Schmitting excites me.....after all I was his coach when he was a freshman....I pretty much made him the player he is today.  ;D
Good to see Paul Wise step up.  I know from talking to Coach G that he was pretty high on him his preseason.  Nice to see that.  :) ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 02, 2005, 11:27:57 am
See Steve, I was telling you Schmitting is going to be a version of the "Manimal."  He was real tough with his back to the basket.  He scored 21pts. on 9/12 shooting and 8 boards.  I really don't have that much more to add.  Gillie got a tech. for seriously complaining about the foul count which was ridiculous and I seriously doubt UW-GB's coach gets a tech for what Gillie did (bush league).  Too many calls we "anticipation" calls on Ripon. But anyways there's no way Ripon was going to come out of there a winner (GB shot 30 FT's to Ripon's 8 in second half alone). They competed hard and should be proud of the way they played.  I seriously think Ripon made more "plays" then GB did and if they keep this up they should be serious contenders this year.  A UW-GB cop told me that we should win our league (MWC) easily.  I had to tell him that there's no way we win our league easily and just how competitive it is.  I think UW-GB fans thought Ripon was a really good D3 team, which they might be, but UW-GB has some major issues.  They are going to struggle this year.  

Besides the others that steve mentioned Eric Wright had 5 assists in 10 minutes in back up PG role and John Murphy was real physical and rebounded well.

McMullen had too many TO's but he knows that.  He actually did an OK job running the offense and getting the ball to Schmitting and Johnson....also crossed a couple dudes nasty.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 02, 2005, 12:09:02 pm
You guys are scarin' all the little kiddies out here with this talk! Just scarin' the pants offus!  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 02, 2005, 12:41:47 pm
A couple of questions for those of you who were at the game last night.....

Anyone happen to know if a freshman by the name of Rich Cloeter played at all for Ripon last night??  If so, did he make much of a contribution??

Also, did the Werch kid from Ripon who transferred from Utah play much for UWGB?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 02, 2005, 12:46:19 pm

I think a foul disparity is to be expected from a D3-d1 match-up.  Certainly the home team gets the benefit  of the doubt in calls, especially in an exhibition and there is always the added physicality needed when the opposition has bigger bodies.  It's nice to see Ripon putting up a good show--16 points is impressive no matter what level Green Bay is on this year.

The recap on the GB site tells the story though.  Green Bay scored 59 in the second half.  When a d3 school can keep the score low and play good defense, they stick around, but if you slip a little and open the gates, then the tides can turn real fast.

I'll be interested to see how this works for IWU tomorrow night.  Physically, they match up real well with the Illinois backcourt.  The frontcourt will have some work cut out for them, but aside from Dee Brown, I don't doubt that the IWU guards can handle the young Illini guys.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 02, 2005, 02:03:02 pm
Cubs,

Cloeter played pretty well for a freshman in his first game.  He had a real nice steal on a help side slap-down, which stripped the ball and led to a bucket.  He also had a 3pter in the face of a UW-GB defender....but he did shoot a three pointer off the side of the backboard, but over-all he competed real hard and fought for rebounds against the bigger team.  On a side note, i know the kid can play cause i saw him score 18pts against Ripon HS in the first quarter one game. He is a 6'5 guard who reminds me a lot of Falls...maybe with a little more athletic ability.

Hoops fan,

I know, and that's a good observation.  I didn't expect Ripon to get any calls but the refs were actually the same refs that officiated the mwc conference championship game last year (i think one might have been missing).  But it was a crew that refs D3 games a lot.  I have been critical of these same officials before.  It just seems like they are consitantly bad for every team.  As far as staying close with GB, Ripon was within one or two when Johnson got his technical and then on the next play they got a three point play and the lead was 7.  That was a 5 or 6 point swing that eventually put GB on top.  Ripon kept fighting back but then there would be a foul.  30 to 8 ratio is always going to be tough to beat...not to mention ripon got 3 or 4 FT att. within the last minute of the game.

There is an obvious difference between Ill. program and UW-GB.  One has a player of the year on the team and the other lost four starters from its team last year.  If Weslyn stays within 20 that should be a moral victory.  Dee brown is just sooo fast up and down and there's no way Ill.wes. has the big men to stay with the Illini's...but maybe they do
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 02, 2005, 02:29:27 pm
Here is a link to a better write-up on the Ripon/UWGB game.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/sports/archive/sports_23224884.shtml


mwc-I assume you ar talking about former LU player Brendan Falls??


Anyone want to take a stab at the projected standings this season?  I figure both Lawrence and Carroll will be near the top, but who else has a chance to make the Conference Tourney this season??  I would assume Ripon, however they did lose a bit of talent from last season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 02, 2005, 04:09:08 pm
For what it's worth (I haven't verified this 100% but think it's likely to be true) no MWC team has ever made it to the NCAA or MWC Tournament in years that they have faced Goucher in a Holiday Tournament. Lawrence and Beloit will both do so this year. Might as well scratch them from the field now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tps040580 on November 02, 2005, 04:21:09 pm
Ripon 12-4
Carroll 11-5
Lawrence 10-6
Lake Forest and Knox 9-7
Beloit 8-8
Grinnell and Monmouth 7-9
St. Norbert 4-12
Illinois College 3-13
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 02, 2005, 09:11:24 pm
Good to see that Gillespie was able to keep all these guys academically eligible.  At the MWC tourney last year I heard there were several troubled students in the starying lineup for the Red Hawks.  Must have studied hard last Spring after getting bounced from the tournament by LU. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 02, 2005, 10:38:28 pm
Their roster at the end of the season isn't always the same one that they started with. I remember lots of "Where's Waldvogel" banners in Beloit one year when he was conspicuous by his absence for the second meeting between the two teams. It seems you have also discovered this trend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 03, 2005, 12:42:56 pm
Ripon 12-4
Carroll 11-5
Lawrence 10-6
Lake Forest and Knox 9-7
Beloit 8-8
Grinnell and Monmouth 7-9
St. Norbert 4-12
Illinois College 3-13

You really think Ripon has enough talent to win the league this season?  I will admit that I don't know as much about the MWC as the rest of you do, but I wouldn't have put Ripon in the running for a title, even though they are consistently a Conference Tournament team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 03, 2005, 01:42:05 pm
Ripon 12-4
Carroll 11-5
Lawrence 10-6
Lake Forest and Knox 9-7
Beloit 8-8
Grinnell and Monmouth 7-9
St. Norbert 4-12
Illinois College 3-13

Did Lawrence lose that much?  I mean, they still have Braier!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 03, 2005, 01:51:32 pm
Why don't you think they can?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tps040580 on November 03, 2005, 03:00:59 pm
It was just a prediction. Lawrence is going to be a top team, but I think given that they lost some good seniors, it might take some time for them to get going. It was a two game difference from what they had last year. Carroll, I think, is bringing everyone back except for Hickethier so I think they will be as good, if not better. I just think Bo Johnson is going to win the player of the year, and Ripon is going to take down the league this year. It is more a hunch than anything else, but the two teams went down to the wire last year in the conference title game so I don't think it is so far-fetched. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 03, 2005, 03:39:06 pm

I don't think Ripon winning is too far fetched.  Larry will be there, but I'm not so sure they are 'the hunted' any longer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 03, 2005, 04:05:54 pm
Why don't you think they can?

I was thinking that the loss of Becker may be a little too much to overcome.  Even though they return their other three top scorers (Johnson, McMullen, and Schmitting,) they don't seem to have a floor leader.  I don't know if I would want to count on someone who led the team in TO's last season, (and will arguably face more pressure this season) as a guy to get the offense started.

Like I said, I DO NOT claim to know a lot about this league.  I was just curious on what the "insiders" thought.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 03, 2005, 05:05:25 pm
I think Lawrence, Ripon, Lake Forest, and Carroll will be the top four  teams.  I still feel like LU is the top team until someone proves that they can beat them consistently.  I concede that Ripon returns a lot of talent.  Im not sold that they can recover the loss of becker as easily as some people on this board realize.  He was a dominant player who carried Ripon through many games last year.  Bo Johnson turned out to be a good compliment to becker in the sense that he woud get open looks due to the attention Becker recieved from opposing defenses.  Without a player like Becker to draw and kick, I don't see Bo Johnson having as good a year. I know for a fact that McMullen will not be the player that Becker was.  Everyone who is being honest with themselves knows that.  I also concede that Schmitting is a very good player who will probably be better than he was last season.  I am not worried about this because I have never seen a post player in this conference get the best of bopper.     
Carroll College relied on Hickethier in every close game I've seen them play.  I belive carroll also lost their PGs in Juus and James Johnson.  They will be still be a talented team.  But can the other guys step up and make this a conference contender? Im not sold.  Some of those other players always came off as looking like mental midgets.
Lake Forest is my biggest worry as an LU fan.  They return a team that has made the conference tourney for two years in a row.  They've played a long time together and they have always had an abundance of talent.  Klos and Beckford are two potential 1st teamers this year in my opinion.  However this team still has to prove that they can win the BIG games. 

should be a great season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 03, 2005, 05:21:51 pm
Cubs,

If my memory serves me correctly, i don't believe the coaches had Ripon as one of the top 4 teams last year because they lost a 1st team all-conference player in Scott Landish and a quality scorer in Kieck.  And sure enough Ripon came a bad call away (monmouth game) from winning the conference last year...finishing one game behind LU.  Now that Ripon has lost another great player in Becker i can see where people might think Ripon will be worse.  But they do return 3/4 top scorers which is always a plus and the only under classmen who was on 2nd team all-conference in Bo Johnson (18.0 pts/g).  Plus, i personally don't worry about the PG situation because I know McMullen will do an extrodinary job at point.  I know he was around the league leaders in assists and steals last year and he is only a sophomore.  In fact Johnson, Schmitting, and Mcmullen were all Soph. last year...and from my experience, transitioning from soph. to Junior is a big step in not only ability, but leadership.  So i look for all those guys to really step up both in the score books and in practice.  They also have a tough guard in Murphy who can play physical and rebound.  He scored over 20 something against Augustana when they played there last year....so he definately has the ability to step up.  But you are definately right that the PG position needs to be filled, but i just think it is in good hands with McMullen.

I'd also like to point out that the loss of Becker was huge for Ripon.  No one can tell me that Ripon won't miss him and his ability.  But why i think Ripon will step up and challenge for the championship is because everyone else loss a lot too.  CC by far lost its best player in Hicketheir (he was so under-rated), LU lost 3 great starters including Hollinbeck (who was all-conference as a freshman a long time ago) Lake Forest lost McDonald and Knox lost Kelly ( who was so tough to guard @ knox). So everyone lost a lot, but Gillespie does a great job recuiting and just reloading.  They have a lot of young talent and probably the best center in the league (maybe other then Beckford).  He has done that his whole career which is why it will show Ripon with the most success in the MWC in the last 20 years (unless you feel LU's run two years ago makes up for all those championships).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 03, 2005, 05:31:47 pm
LU 05

Without trying to jump down your throat, what you said about Bo Johnson was so Cliche.  A dominant PG like becker and of course that was the reason Bo scored so much.  There is no doubt that Becker's greatness helped Johnson get some looks.  But Ripon runs a motion offense with a lot of screens and cuts and Bo Johnson runs off screens very, very, well.  I don't know if you saw the box score, but Johnson shot 5-9 from 3pt. against UW-GB and probably had two or three rattle out.  He had about 4 or 5 different people try and guard him and he still managed to score 24 pts. and 6 boards with only shooting one FT.  Bo had two or three games where he made 7 threes or more including 9 @ knox.  He can play....and I don't believe the Bobber has ever really had to guard Schmitting when they play.  Normally Olson Guarded him or whatever other Big was in the game when he was.  I know that one on one, Bopper can't stop Schmitting...not this year.   I heard that the coach from UW-GB said Schmitting would start on his team...Schmitting was obviously the best Big out on the from in that game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 03, 2005, 05:54:39 pm

I love that Jeff is keeping quiet when I know he's dying to tell you all he thinks Grinnell will be top three.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 03, 2005, 06:05:12 pm
"I know that one on one, Bopper can't stop Schmitting...not this year."

Thats a bold claim.  I don't think hes shown to be that dominant on the offensive end.  And not to jump down your throat, sir, but without Becker, Ripon doesn't come within 20 pts of any game with LU last season.  Bo Johnson had a terrific game at Ripon when they won.  Did you notice who was gaurding him?  LU had Briar chasing him around screens on the perimeter.(obviously not his strength).  How did Bo do the next two times when LU had a wing guard him? Hes a very good shooter, but shooters can be taken away.  Players like Becker can't be taken away as easily.  I think Bo Jonson benefited by playing with Becker.     


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 03, 2005, 07:10:55 pm
"And not to jump down your throat, sir, but without Becker, Ripon doesn't come within 20 pts of any game with LU last season."

You can't be serious with that quote.  Obviously Ripon doesn't play LU for the conference championship without Becker, but if LU doen't have Evans, Falls, Olson, and Hollenbeck then how would they have beaten Ripon's team last year?  The point is that both those teams DID have them and the final score of the conference championship game was a direct result of all those players.  Now both teams lost a signifcant amount of talent from last years teams.  But Ripon returns 3 starters, that were all SOPHOMORES last year, that averaged over 10 points a game.  I know Becker was an amazing player and will be missed.  I stated that in my last post, but you are crazy if you think the loss of those four guys won't be equal to or more of a void to fill then Ripon's team.  I don't know if you realize how tough Falls, Evans, and Hollenbeck were defensively for LU.  They were in every right spot, so to speak, on the help side, rebounding, and guarding their man.  With all those guys' height they had they could guard multiple positions.  They were so key to LU's success as a team.  Not to mention, I'm not sure I've seen a group of guys that could knock down the pressure shot like those guys.  I saw LU's bench first hand and they didn't look very good comfortable when they came into games.  Now they have to come in and fill sooo many differnt parts that made LU so successful.  That's not to say none of them are going to step up, but it's not like they have three players like those guys that left just ready to jump in and be the dominant LU team that has been for 3 years. 

As far as Schmitting goes, Steve Kohl will back me up cause he saw him play against a D1 6'9 center and abuse him.  Believe it or not, players that work hard in the off-season get extremly better, especially after your Soph. year.  I know Schmitting put in a lot of time in the weight room and in the gym and his confidence level is very high.  He had a play last year at the end of the year when he got fouled and dunked the ball on a Beliot player.  He has endless potential and i wasn't just saying that the UW-GB coach said that about him.  He really said he could/would start fo GB. 

Bo, scored 30 against @ Augie, around 30 against Hanover, around 30 against LU.  These are away, neutral and home games....not to mention his 9 threes at Knox.  It's not a fluke.  Just aske UW-GB when he had fans coming up to him after the game and saying how raw he is.  I'm not saying he's unstoppable by any means, but he averaged 18 pts/game as a soph and is still getting BETTER.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 03, 2005, 07:36:37 pm
Jeffp is keeping quiet because Jeffp still thinks crapshoot. Total and complete CRAPSHOOT! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on November 03, 2005, 08:12:34 pm
Here is the good news on Ripon/LU....they will begin to settle it on January 7th. 

I think they have had 3 OT games the past two years.  I expect the games this year to be close as well.  I think LU will match up well with Ripon in the front court this year.  Braier will match up with Johnson, McGillis with Wise and Osland/Hurley with Schmitting.(Olson has been mentioned, but he was not the starter last year).  It has not been mentioned, but McGillis might be the best defender in the conference, far far better defender than Falls(not due to effort, just natural ability, as Falls always put out a strong effort).

Anyway you look at it, Ripon's performance at UWGB was impressive.  Players in this conference do make big strides between their soph and jr. years as mentioned.  LUs bigs will be better as well.  I think Hollinbeck's graduation is the biggest variable as it is not clear who will replace his D and his 3 pt. shooting.   LU has candidates, but big shoes to fill.

Should be 2 or 3 great games this year....better drag in the extra bleachers to ALEX.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 03, 2005, 09:01:47 pm
As far as Schmitting goes, Steve Kohl will back me up cause he saw him play against a D1 6'9 center and abuse him. 

I am assuming you are talking about UWGB Freshman Center Mike Schachtner.  Remember he is a freshman, and this was his FIRST collegeiate contest.  A big step up from the HS kids he was able to handle using his height alone.  He only weighs 215, and on a 6'9" frame you aren't looking at a whole lot of muscle.  In my opinion, Braier plays a more physical game at 6'4" than Schachtner at 6'7".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 03, 2005, 10:02:04 pm
I'm sorry, he abused all the Bigs on UW-GB...9/12 from the field 21 and 8
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 03, 2005, 10:19:13 pm
I'm sorry, he abused all the Bigs on UW-GB...9/12 from the field 21 and 8

Look at the sizes of UWGB's "bigs," and I use that term loosely.....

Randy Berry 6'9"-215 (Freshman)
Ryan Tillema 6'8"-205 (Freshman)
Mike Schachtner 6'9"-215 (Freshman)

There isn't a guy there that is more "physical" than Braier.  I am not trying to take anything away from Schmitting, but to make a believer out of me, and MAYBE some others, he is going to have to do it against some "tougher" players. 

I look at all of these guys as "athletes," and not your typical post players.  There has to be a reason that UWGB does not list any players on their roster as "Centers" for a reason.  That is telling me they don't legitimately have a true "Center." 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 04, 2005, 12:33:43 am
Any word on when the MWC SIDs have their preseason poll?  The WIAC had theirs today and just wondered if the MWC votes are out.  Thanks. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 04, 2005, 09:42:25 am
Cubs,
yes all those GB players were freshmen, but they were D1 freshmen.  Granted Braier is a physical beast on the court.....but I imagine D1 frosh are more physical than a D2 or 3 frosh.  I see your point as that they are not very thick only 205 or 215, but they have proved themselves to get to the D1 level.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 04, 2005, 10:15:09 am
Cubs,
yes all those GB players were freshmen, but they were D1 freshmen.  Granted Braier is a physical beast on the court.....but I imagine D1 frosh are more physical than a D2 or 3 frosh.  I see your point as that they are not very thick only 205 or 215, but they have proved themselves to get to the D1 level.

Early-
I agree with you to a point.  The only thing I was trying to say was that the UWGB "Bigs" are more of the athletic type of posts, whereas the inside players in the MWC are more of the "banging" type.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hawk Sighting on November 04, 2005, 10:16:41 am
Genltmen,
     I dont know about you but I am excited to see LU and Ripon play this year, the 2 top teams in the conference, these will be the games that decided #1 and #2 in the conference.  Coach G and Coach Tharp are great coaches, so no matter who they have for athletes that year, they are able to work with what they have, so even with the losses that both teams have had, I dont see it changing much, these two teams battle against each other to the last second every year, thats just how Ripon/Lawrence games are.  
   Early, we have to set up a couple games to meet up at Sotrzer to watch our boys kick some a$$!!  Good Luck HAWKS!!!!!  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 04, 2005, 12:16:07 pm
lu nut,
           I couldn't disagree with you more with your matchups.  MacGillis will gaurd Johnson.  Having Bopper chasing Johnson around staggered screens on the perimeter is partly why LU got into trouble the first game at Ripon last year.  Bo Johnson is more of a wing and he needs to be gaurded by one.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 04, 2005, 12:49:05 pm
Have you guys figgered out you who is gonna guard who when you play Grinnell?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 04, 2005, 01:39:37 pm
who will guard McMullen, Wise, Murphy, and Schmitting?

Jeffp,

I'm not sure the coaches know...soooo difficult to set up the press break, get back on defense and find your new man every out of bounds
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 04, 2005, 02:35:17 pm
mwc4life- Here's who:
Schmidt, Nordland, Langenhan, Martinez, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Pfalzer, Groteberg, Guzman, Roewe, Long, Arseneault, Carlson, Idrissa, Ticus, ad nauseum. :D :D :D

The names will change every 45 seconds.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 04, 2005, 02:39:44 pm
I see what you mean cubs.  But don't worry Schmitting can bang.  He could bang his freshman year, when I coached him to greatness, and he was about 20-30 lbs. lighter.

RC @ Lawry.....Saturday January 7th.  Thinking about that one for sure.

I think against Grinnell RC will put McMullen on Max Brauer, then Bobby Long, then Ahmed Idrissa, then Max Brauer again, then Bobby again, then back to Max, then John Grotberg, back to Ahmed, Max, Bobby, then Trek Langenhan, back to Max, Bobby, Max, Trek and then Max.  We'll work out the second half of the game later.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 04, 2005, 02:42:08 pm
Early - don't you mean you will work out the second 5 MINUTES later?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 04, 2005, 02:58:36 pm
I was wondering how LU would match up with Ripon because just thinking of the Grinnell matchups make jack a dul boy.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 04, 2005, 03:31:04 pm
mwc4life- Here's who:
Schmidt, Nordland, Langenhan, Martinez, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Pfalzer, Groteberg, Guzman, Roewe, Long, Arseneault, Carlson, Idrissa, Ticus, ad nauseum. :D :D :D

The names will change every 45 seconds.

jeff, I'm not sure anyone noticed one of those names. How good is Coach A's boy? One has to presume that he can make a trey. I'm guessing they Arseneault house doesn't have a basketball goal on the garage; they simply attach it to the neighbor's garage and shoot from their yard!

Along those lines, I'm guessing most kids would be upset if they were playing college basketball and their father yanked them from the game after 45 seconds. Not young Arseneault! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 04, 2005, 03:54:37 pm
SF86;ie;AM-

he's good.

 ;-)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 05, 2005, 12:18:39 am
Good by Grinnell standards doesn't mean he's good in general however.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 05, 2005, 08:20:35 am
Now, Now, Roop. Don't be silly.

He's Good.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on November 05, 2005, 11:29:48 am
There is no way Ripon goes undefeated this year. Just give it a rest, Ripon fanatics. It's not going to happen.

Everyone is sleeping on IC...don't do it...worrell...worrell...worrell.

jeffp...have you seen any more grinnell practices...tell us everything...do they really play no defense in practice?

I think we should have a get-together for all of the people who post on the site...what would be a central location...how about waukesha?

well the wife is back, but we have to go to counseling. And I fired the gardener.

Love you guys.
:D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on November 05, 2005, 11:33:45 am
Where does my karma keep going, you jerks? I am so tired of being disrespected on this site. I blame Roop and his elitist attitude. The 50's are over, Roop.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 05, 2005, 01:39:45 pm
Good by Grinnell standards doesn't mean he's good in general however.

Don't know what standards you are applying Roop, but I looked up what numbers I could find, and the boy looks like he can play. Grotberg may be another shooter, and Roewe made nearly 40% of his treys last year.

I think we could see some high scores this year.   

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 05, 2005, 01:44:39 pm
Hey, jeff, what's the deal? Grinnell only lists 18 players on the roster!

When do teams (other than GC) cut their extra players?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 05, 2005, 03:07:59 pm
Grinell Fan:

Quit you bitching about karma points.  I'll get one for you if you get one for me every day.  Get to work !!

Titan 2000

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 06, 2005, 03:01:33 am
1. I have to appear elitist in order to trash talk to JeffP.

2. I don't have enough posts to give Karma points.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: True Basketball Fan on November 06, 2005, 10:44:55 am
Only 18 players!  They need like 22 at least, otherwise someone might accidentally play more than 15 minutes.  Also, 18 players will hinder their practice efforts.  I'm sure they will rattle the rafters in the dorms to come up with a few extra.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: True Basketball Fan on November 06, 2005, 11:02:08 am
Titan2000,

Are you an Oshkosh Titan or an IWU Titan?  It makes a difference whether I'll help you or not with karma when I get the chance.  I need the help also.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 06, 2005, 11:04:00 am
Oshvegas, baby.

Pour on the karma now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 06, 2005, 12:47:43 pm
While the easy pick for MWC champ appears to be Lawrence with Ripon a strong second, I'm going to go out on a limb and pick Knox to win the regular season championship.

Good size, lots of returning firepower (even without Kelley) and I have heard rumors that they may have some first year talent coming in as well.

I'm probably wrong as usual but its so much more fun to pick the longshot if they come in.  I look for Lawrence and Ripon to fill two of the other three spots and remain undecided on the fourth.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 06, 2005, 09:12:36 pm
Is Knox named after the gelatin family?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 06, 2005, 09:33:25 pm
I'm not sure of the origin of the name but certainly you are aware that Knox is one of the most famous and difficult schools in all of America if not the world.

How many time have you heard a succesful business person state that they graduated from the "school of hard Knox"

 ;D 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 06, 2005, 09:57:21 pm
Quick question for those in the know, what has happened to several of the players on Beloit's preseason roster?

It appears that they are down to 12 players with at lest 2 (3) who were on the original no longer listed.  I know that someone was hurt but one of the two kids from Parkview along with the kid from Iowa are missing altogether.  Was one of these players the injury reported here?  If so, which guy?  I have always seen teams continue to list injured players as part of the program through the season but perhaps since he was jurt prior to the start of the season this is not the case?  What happened to the second guy?

Just curious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 07, 2005, 03:22:20 am
JeffP you're supposed to bring the laptop along on your Chicago trips so you can entertain us with "ThatGirl" driving stories.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 07, 2005, 12:16:07 pm
The GC roster will hold at 18.
3 players from last year chose not to play this year (1 transfered) and several 1st years left school after a few days. Their decision to leave had nothing to do with Basketball.

There will be a few new (old) wrinkles in the system this year from what I can see. I ain't gonna say a thing more because  these changes will cause more confusion that a stink bomb in a perfume factory.

Having only 18 on the roster has little to no effect on practice. Groupings remain intact and conditioning appears to already be tremendous. The 1st years are learning quickly and fitting in quite well. This team will be much faster, have great hands on each shift, and be able to put up treys with more accuracy than last year. There will be few weaknesses, they won't be glaring, and it will be interesting to see if opponents can pick out what they are and take advantage of them.

It will also be interesting to see which of you astute observers pick up on the changes when GC comes to town. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: eric on November 07, 2005, 01:10:10 pm
Well, I'm back after a year of self imposed exile...sort of. 
I've ben lurking again for a while.  For the new people and those who forgot.  I'm a class of '98 Grinnell Grad and a coach who runs the System at the HS level in Minnesota. 
I finally had to post here again because of the Arseneault's son plaing comments.  I'm feeling kind of old now because I used to umpire him in little league.  He was a really good catcher.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 07, 2005, 01:14:55 pm
Well, I'm back after a year of self imposed exile...sort of. 
I've ben lurking again for a while.  For the new people and those who forgot.  I'm a class of '98 Grinnell Grad and a coach who runs the System at the HS level in Minnesota. 
I finally had to post here again because of the Arseneault's son plaing comments.  I'm feeling kind of old now because I used to umpire him in little league.  He was a really good catcher.   

Don't feel too bad Eric... that same kid wasn't even born when I attended Grinnell, and you weren't big enough to hold up a catcher's mitt, much less use one!

Age is very, very relative.
 :D :D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 07, 2005, 01:22:18 pm
You know jeff, with all the information you have about the Pioneer practice, I can't help but get the image of a caffine version of "Shooter" (from Hoosiers) hanging around Darby dispensing historical basketball knowledge.

Do you have a nice suit?

 ;)    :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 07, 2005, 01:56:53 pm
I ain't got no suit, and I just lurk sometimes-actually pretty seldom. It is relatively easy to lurk at practices in the new facility without anyone knowing you are watching.

I guess that IS the definition of Lurking, eh?

BTW, we did get to Chicago and visited with 'that girl' over the weekend and saw a very raunchy, funny production. Already has her next gig lined up for December. Now if the day job problem (she works for Refco-ring any bells?---buddy, can you spare an indictment?) get solved, things will be back on an even keel.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 07, 2005, 03:03:28 pm
Dolph,
Beloit's picture has 13 in it.  Looks like the kid from Iowa and Twin Lakes are not there.  I think the Chrischilles kid from Iowa tore his achilles, so he's probably out for the season.  I don't know what happened to the other??  Hinz gets his cast off this week and will be ready to go.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 07, 2005, 03:11:34 pm
"Dolph,
Beloit's picture has 13 in it."

But their roster only has 12 as number 20 is missing (must have been the second kid from Parkview?)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 07, 2005, 04:13:31 pm
Does anyone know why the coaches picks haven't been posted yet on the conference website?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 07, 2005, 05:39:16 pm
Hi Folks.  Just checking in.  I've been glued to the football site along with the other members of "Monmouth Nation."  In case you haven't been keeping up with MWC football, the Scots are now 10-0 after a 48-0 drubbing of Knox.  Our quarterback Mitch Tanney, whose father is MC basketball great Don Tanney for some of you old timers in here, was 21-23 for 405 yards and 5 touchdowns.  And, oh yeah, he only threw two passes in the second half.  Anyway, the Scots have been on a roll and hopefully will represent the MWC well in a couple of weeks when the post season begins.

I don't have much info yet on Scots' basketball, other than they open the season on the road 11/19 against the DII powerhouse Central Missouri State Univeristy Mules.  Glad that the season is right around the corner.

Just two weeks away
Midwest Conf'rence basketball
And haikus galore

Scottie



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 08, 2005, 12:25:12 am
All these implied secrets are very nice Jeff, it adds a bit of mystery to the board. However, the chance of Grinnell winning on the 2nd is about the same as Gwen Stephanie recording a new album without Eve involved in it somehow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 08, 2005, 07:50:32 am
All these implied secrets are very nice Jeff, it adds a bit of mystery to the board. However, the chance of Grinnell winning on the 2nd is about the same as Gwen Stephanie recording a new album without Eve involved in it somehow.

Gwen Stephanie?!?!

Roop, roop, roop. I am so far from being on top of the latest trends that it's scary, but even I know that's not right. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 08, 2005, 12:30:15 pm
Stefani.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 08, 2005, 11:54:04 pm
It will be my third season on the board, I think one spelling error is acceptable.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on November 09, 2005, 12:44:14 am
Same as scottie, just checking in since I've been with the rest of Scots Nation glued to the football site.  It's good to see that most of the other regulars are holding the board down very nicely so far.  Can't wait for all those haikus to start rolling in! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 09, 2005, 08:24:21 am
It will be my third season on the board, I think one spelling error is acceptable.

Absolutely, it's acceptable. It just made me realize that I may not be the only 'tragically unhip" individual out here.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 09, 2005, 01:58:07 pm
Well AM now you have an amusing story to share with Ms. Stefani should you ever meet her. If you do, please drop me an email and I'll put it up on my Roop 24/7 site.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 09, 2005, 03:09:35 pm
Well AM now you have an amusing story to share with Ms. Stefani should you ever meet her. If you do, please drop me an email and I'll put it up on my Roop 24/7 site.
Trust me, if I ever meet a woman like that, I'll post the pictures! ;)

Of course, that's as likely as jeffp drinking Tasters Choice...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 09, 2005, 09:08:41 pm
When you meet Ms. Stefani, let her know "better dead than red". :o

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 09, 2005, 09:15:54 pm
Scandal Alert:

jeffp caught drinking Tasters Choice.  Also, Roop meets Gwen Stephanie, finds that, in comparison, Gwen Stefani is a mutt.  Film at 11.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 10, 2005, 12:00:52 am
Mr. Ypsi,

The Roop appreciates your good wishes, however, the problem with meeting celebrities like that is they become real people in your mind afterwards and it ruins most of your fantasies. Like the time The Roop met Linda Carter at the Kentucky Derby and conversed for a few minutes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 10, 2005, 04:05:41 am
The star of Wonder Woman? In that case, Roop, you meant that you met Lynda Carter. You're now one over your error quota. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 10, 2005, 07:43:04 am
Carter must not have won if she had time to talk. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 10, 2005, 08:01:23 am
Bravo, Mr. Sager. Bravo. Quick. Simple. And to the point.

Bravo, as well to Mr. Braier for his selection as second team pre-season All American. Certainly well deserved. Does Larry offer an early graduation option? Those of us who appreciate his ability will still appreciate it when he graduates - which can't come too soon! ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 10, 2005, 08:14:01 am
Roop:

I'll ask the questions that everyone else is thinking but not asking--


How would she look in a Beloit Basketball t-shirt?




(if that doesn't get me somne karma, what will?)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 10, 2005, 01:20:13 pm
The coaches pre-season polls are out:

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/MBBALLcoachespoll05.pdf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 10, 2005, 02:01:33 pm
Grinnell Men's Alumni game Saturday at 7:00pm following the Women's game at 5:00. Finally get to see how much the newbies know!
Also get to see some past greats (Wood, Malinowski, the Elder Nordlund, et al)!

Still can't find D3soccer.com, so...Congrats to the Grinnell Women's Soccer team for beating Lakeland in the Regional semifinal yesterday 3-1. They will Play Macalaster on Saturday for the right to advance. This is the first win in the tourney for a GC Women's team, so best of luck and keep it going, 'neers!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 10, 2005, 11:56:43 pm
The misspelling of "Lynda Carter" was in a "scrimmage" post so it doesn't count against the quota.

Not sure if she had a horse running that year or not. It was the year Charismatic won if that helps any. I cashed a huge ticket though.

I'm quite sure she would look fine in any t-shirt. It was quite an effort to maintain eye contact in other words. When I returned to our table my wife asked if I enjoyed the conversation. Translation........... I obviously talked with her too long. So yes, I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 11, 2005, 03:33:42 am
Bravo, Mr. Sager. Bravo. Quick. Simple. And to the point.

Is this a compliment on account of my wit, or a note of surprise on account of my brevity?  :D

The misspelling of "Lynda Carter" was in a "scrimmage" post so it doesn't count against the quota.

Well played, sir.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 12, 2005, 12:10:38 am
There is a dark side to the whole thing though. I met Al Gore the same day. Didn't mean to, it just sort of happened. Tipper looked nice though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 12, 2005, 08:26:02 am
Roop:

Does Algore weigh like 350 now or has ne begun to slim down again?  ???

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 13, 2005, 09:05:15 am
Grinnell-143
Grinnell Alum-97

First half was close but conditioning won out. Several newbies got "took to school":
-Steve Nordlund showed how to streak shoot, break loose from nowhere for the open shot, and steal a few balls while still looking as inept as ever. It's a great act Steve, but I never ever  bought it and still don't. ;D
-Chris Jacobsen proved how smooth a 34 year old center can be.
-Mike hockmann showed the beauty of the flat trajectory trey.
-Cole Robertson proved hands down that he was the most complete, strongest athlete ever to play any sport at GC.
-Steve Wood. No more need be said. He left the newbies with their collective mouths hanging open more than once.
-All the old guys deserve credit for running like crazy last night.

This game was no cupcake. There was one complete line from the early system days, one line was a mix of late 90's and early mid 2000's. Both played very very well. Two complete and intact lines from the last 5 years. These guys put on a show early and took several leads. What a joy to see these lines up and functioning! Conditioning and practice time made the difference.

The team looks great! Much farther along than last years team was by early december!
These guys are streaky, quick handed, quirky and tough. They have so many pick pockets on this team that they will leave everybody staring atr empty hands at least once!
They have a great shot at the MWC tourney.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 14, 2005, 12:18:58 am
T2,

At the time I met him he was still Vice President. Not sure as to his weight status these days.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 14, 2005, 10:32:08 am

Not that its a big deal, but my trip to GC has officially been pushed back to January.  I really wanted to see Ripon, but they sprung a staff retreat on me at work.  It is a free weekend away from home, so I guess its not all bad.

I'm looking at 1/7/2006 vs Illinois College or 1/21/2006 vs Lake Forrest, outside shot at the Lawrence Game 1/28.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 14, 2005, 10:54:17 am
Hoops - No students around on the 7th, they will be just coming back on the 21st, if that makes any diff to you.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 14, 2005, 11:26:28 am
Just a bit of history as we get closer to the official start of the season...

Larry is trying to become the first team to 'three-peat' as conference champ since Beloit did it the first year I was at Grinnell. Yes, THAT long ago. (82-83). Before that, you have to go back to 1951's Beloit team. The only other team to do it was Carleton when they were part of the league back in the 1930's.

Any thoughts from the Larry faithful on tonight's game in the Kohl Center? Are the Badgers any good? I see that they received a little love from the preseason polls, but not enough to put them in the Top 25. looks like they (UW) are pretty young.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 14, 2005, 11:58:39 am

Thanks for the head's up Jeff.  It will really depend on schedules and stuff, but I'd hate to make the  trip and miss out on the atmosphere.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 14, 2005, 02:13:53 pm
I would wait until the students get back, otherwise you will miss all the smoking hot chicks that they have down at Grinnell.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on November 14, 2005, 09:03:33 pm
UW Madison 30 Larry U 18 at the half. Chris Braier has 8 rebounds but is 0-8 from the field with zero points.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 14, 2005, 11:22:46 pm
Wisconsin 81
Lawrence 46

Here is a pretty good recap and boxscore.  The two things that stick out the most were Chris Braier's 1-14 from the field for 3 points, and over 17,000 in attendance.

http://www.uwbadgers.com/sport_news/mbb/headlines/full_story.aspx?story_id=2005_11_14_21_07_25_mbb
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Hooper01 on November 15, 2005, 01:11:36 am
Not a very good showing for the larries at the Kohl Center tonight. I thought that they woulod have given them a better showing. I guess when their top two players in Braier in McGillis go 5 for 25 from the field for 15 points they should struggle. I know that Wisconsin is way different from the MWC but  I thought it would have been different.
Any thoughts on how everyone thinks the MWC will pan out this year. I've read in a few magazines they have Lawrence, Carroll, Lake Forest, and Ripon. I see all three of these teams in the conference tournament but who knows the order they will be in. All of the teams lost crucial players from the year before but it is wide open. I think that Ripon might be getting overlooked after the departure of Becker. The have three starters back who all averaged double digits and the two new starters played a lot last year so they are pretty experienced. It should be a good year for the MWC
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 15, 2005, 01:43:49 am
Hoops,

Sorry to hear you will be missing the "Grand Roopening" of Saints Rest on the 2nd, but it's hard to pass on free time away from work.

For all those in the Beloit area. "The Roop" will be gracing Flood Arena with his presence this weekend. Friday is likely, although still up in the air at the moment, but Saturday is a lock.

The MWC-LMC Challenge should tell a great deal about Beloits and Ripons chances in the conference this year. If they don't win both their games by at least 15 points they will not be contenders in the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on November 15, 2005, 01:48:49 am
Hooper

If you are going by the final score, you are missing a great deal.  Lawrence played them very tough for 25 minutes.  They were down just by 10 despite being stone cold...they were getting good shots, just not hitting.  LU was only 1-11 the first half from the 3 point line and they were all good shots.  LU actually had an advantage of 7-2 in offensive rebounds the first half and more steals.  They competed very well.   It was a closer game than the UWM game last year that they lost by 30.  

LU had no answer for Tucker who had about half the Badger points when they were at the 50 point mark.   He played all the way until the 10 minute mark which tells you it was a competitive game.  The badgers were up on River Falls last week 34-6.  This game was very different.   Things unraveled for LU when both teams went deep to their bench as LU lost some of their discipline.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 15, 2005, 12:17:34 pm

The Badgers are always better than the national media give them credit for and they play more of a team oriented (dare I say) "d3 style" of ball, so I assume match-ups would be tougher.  Good showing though.  It is still early on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on November 15, 2005, 01:35:50 pm
The Division III vs. Division I matchups are fun for the "hoopla", but I don't think they reveal too much about a team's 'season outlook'.  There are so many factors that play into those games for the D3 kids that just can't be duplicated throughout the rest of the season.  So, even if you do play a D1 program well on one night, that doesn't make you a contender in your Division III conference.  Dare I say that it might even be more of a misrepresentation than a true one. (See Redlands vs. Villanova or Occidental vs. UNLV)

Yes, for the statistic manipulators it makes for a good spin, but other than being just a good experience for the D3 kid, I don't put much stock in these games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 15, 2005, 01:38:02 pm
In the article listed by cubs and what LU 05 said, it told me a three things:
1) It's a (good)DI and DIII match-up so you can't really judge what LU did or did not do at the Kohl center.
2) But if i had to :)....It tells me that LU doesn't have great height and depth
3) and their gap/helpside defense isn't as strong as it has been in the past.

Those were two big keys that I thought would be the downfall of LU this year.  With Falls, Hollenbeck, and Evans leaving they don't have the type of length at the guard position to be great helpers...not yet atleast.  And their bench is going to be thin until proven otherwise.  Also, it didn't look like they shot the ball very well last night.  I bet Falls/Evans/Hollenbeck would have hit a couple of those....and we all know brier can rebound with anyone.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on November 15, 2005, 01:42:37 pm
MWClifer....  I thought the two freshman guards played pretty well for LU, particularly the kid from Nicollet that had 11 points.

I do thing a big open question you hit on the head is the outside shooting.  the new point guard Rosenblatt is actually a better shooter than evans, but replacing Holinbeck's shooting (and d for that matter) is still an open question. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 15, 2005, 02:15:17 pm
Lunuter,

That's good for LU that the Freshman played well lastnight, but it's never a great idea to depend on Freshman unless they are special....Just too much they aren't used to (Depend meaning: coming off the bench or possible starters due to injury). I'm sure LU will be very competitive....didn't i read Tharp saying...  "Iím worried about if we competed, and I think we did. I think we can improve on our team defense. We got gouged a little on the dribble because I think we got stretched out, but I think the tape will tell more what we need to do.Ē It's a good evaluation.

Ripon Preview: http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/preview.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on November 15, 2005, 04:06:33 pm
should be a heck of a game on 1/7.  If all three key guys for Ripon have improved and their wings can play d, they will be very good.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 15, 2005, 04:14:56 pm
WOW.  lu_nut is an actual Lawrence fan from what I can gather.....and he is giving Ripon CREDIT?????  Is this the sign of the apocalypse?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 15, 2005, 05:39:46 pm
They played them tough for most of the first half, and if a few shots dropped, would have had a lead well into the first half.  Briaer was giving 5-6 inches to Butch/Stiesma/Chappel and the hi-lo worked out with Tucker. 

Bring on the Titans. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 16, 2005, 03:06:57 am
Bring on the Titans?  Aren't you a Titan fan?  ???

Anyway, interesting to see that Lawrence again travels to Oshkosh for the second year in a row.  What ever happened to that home and home series?  Any Viking fan like to chime in on how your team got hosed?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 16, 2005, 08:18:10 am
I am an LU fan and a Titan fan.  I have multiple personalities.  This is my MWC board personality, his name is Frank. 

The game is at Alexander gym at LU on 11.22.05
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 16, 2005, 11:19:49 am
jeffp,

I was looking through the GC roster again and noticed that one of the names missing from last years team was Aden Steinbrickner. I'm sorry to see that he is no longer on the team - if for no other reason than the hair looked great running around so much  ;D.

He seemed to fill a role as a rebounder, and with him gone, the Pioneers seem a little short (pardon the expression) on rebounders. After Norlund and Chamberlain, this is a small team. Any thoughts that you're willing to share with the board?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 16, 2005, 11:43:49 am
Nope! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 16, 2005, 12:03:33 pm
AM,

You've only got 16 days left to find an excuse to be in Grinnell on the 2nd. I'm sure I have enough Beloit shirts for you and JeffP to wear the following day.

Now if my boss would only make up his mind about what my schedule is going to be then, I would know how many vacation days to take. So far I've put in for 1, may only need a 1/2 but could end up needing 2 1/2.  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 16, 2005, 12:04:17 pm
WIAC page had Oshkosh hosting.  Oshkosh page has Lawrence hosting and, of course, this site has the game in Appleton.  I'll apologize for the WIAC page.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 16, 2005, 03:14:46 pm
AM,

You've only got 16 days left to find an excuse to be in Grinnell on the 2nd. I'm sure I have enough Beloit shirts for you and JeffP to wear the following day.

Now if my boss would only make up his mind about what my schedule is going to be then, I would know how many vacation days to take. So far I've put in for 1, may only need a 1/2 but could end up needing 2 1/2.  ???

Excuses? I got plenty of those, but most have to do with why I won't be there.

You have to understand Roop, if I'm going to drive all that way for a weekend, I can't possibly explain to my mother (who lives 70 miles away) why I'm visiting you and jeffp and NOT her. Mother's guilt; the gift that keeps on giving. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on November 16, 2005, 03:32:01 pm
MWC and IC Blueboy fans - Keep an eye on freshman guard Mark Gillingham. He is an efficient and effective point guard who can hit the three from anywhere on the court.  He should be a good addition to the Blueboys.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 16, 2005, 11:44:23 pm
Just go visit her while you are there. Excuse DENIED..........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 17, 2005, 01:25:23 am
Be sure to head over to the Multi-Regional Topics Board and select your team for the new Survivor Pool!† :D

You might actually win something!† ;D

Deadline is Friday before the first game's tipoff
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 17, 2005, 10:19:22 am
JeffP won't talk but I will. I was at the alum/GC game, and I have a few thoughts:

- can we say massive 3 point attack from all sides? I think we can
- remember Heiser and Walsh running under opposing players to score beneath the basket? Get set for deja vu
- I for one am looking forward to seeing the GC defense 'swarm' its opponents. Nuff said.

Jeffdc
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 17, 2005, 12:32:26 pm
MWC and IC Blueboy fans - Keep an eye on freshman guard Mark Gillingham. He is an efficient and effective point guard who can hit the three from anywhere on the court.  He should be a good addition to the Blueboys.

He can hit the three from anywhere on the court?  Cause a three from the top is completely different from the wing and corner.... :-/ 
sarcasm

jeffdc, jeffp?  Can we some more jeff(insert barrage of letters) on the board?  I don't think 2 jeffs is enough.

jeffdc, I think we all expect a massive 3 point attack from Grinnell.  I don't think that is going to be a surprise.   :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 17, 2005, 01:09:51 pm

I would love to see him know down a trey from inside the arc... that would be very impressive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 17, 2005, 01:33:57 pm
inside the other arc?† ??? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 17, 2005, 02:14:24 pm

It was meant as sarcasm, you know, taking literally  that he can hit threes from anywhere on the court.   Obviously, he can't hit threes from under the basket or anywhere within the arc.  I was exposing a paradoxical hyperbole.


Guys, please take a joke
Sarcasm is wonderful
Just smile and nod
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 17, 2005, 02:20:59 pm
Speaking of sarcasm. Perfect lead in for me, thanks Hoops. The blog is updated now and there are "Pick ems" available for the opening weekend of the D4 season. I almost hated posting anything again because it meant that my "Things that work on paper" story would scroll off the front page.

Email your picks with "Picks" as the subject line, or use the comments section of the blog. Winner receives a prize equal to entry fees received.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 18, 2005, 12:06:18 pm
Larry U has lost a lot (players) in the last two years.  If their new guys are not monsters isnt it safe to say that they will probably have more trouble in the MWC than they have in a while....

Conversely MC is returning all but two players from a team that was a Larry U victory at CC in the final regular season game from being in the MWC final 4.  MC was also 10-1 at home last year.  they get their starting center back, who when healthy is like a combination between braier and beckford, and sat out all but 3 games last year. 

Just my thoughts.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 18, 2005, 12:17:14 pm
Gotcha Hoops Fan,  I was just trying to spark some excitement. 

One more week Hawks, till Point comes rolling in!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 18, 2005, 01:26:09 pm
1st test of this years GBall tonight against Cornell. They are coached by a former GC assistant familiar with the insides of system ball. Last year his team beat Grinnell, but this year is different.

I hope.

Go Pioneers!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 18, 2005, 01:32:43 pm
Early,

I'll be coming to Ripon next Friday.  Obviously playing the two-time defending champs is something to get excited about.  But, it takes a hit when Point isn't even ranked and they lose 4 senior starters.  It'll be an interesting year for sure.  We'll see tonight!  :o

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 18, 2005, 01:39:43 pm
good luck pio's.

i live in cali now and i am anxious, as i will be able to get my first look at Redlands and compare them to the system!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 18, 2005, 04:02:11 pm
Redlands will play a very fast paced version with even more emphasis on the trey, I think. I've been told it is dizzying to watch.

Have geat fun in California, Old fighting scot! Remember us here in the midwest where dribbling a Basketball outside in January means playing with a shattered ball in February!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 18, 2005, 08:37:55 pm
Hey Jeff P:

Every day I drive into Appleton from Stockbridge and I stop at the Starbucks on KK and 441.  I think their coffee is ok but they are always trying to sell the NY Times which shows they are likely communists.  Then in addition to that, they are pitching scones at you.  And a reusable cup, which would save the environment that so loudly say we need to save, costs $19.  WTF.

Do you treat your customers like that? 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 18, 2005, 11:25:51 pm
GC 136 - Cornell 112

Tight well fought game. Cornell mounted a strong game, with frequent line changes. GC struggled with the 3 pointers but was deadly on turnovers. I can't remember a game recently with as many steals and double-dribbles/traveling calls. Ticus made a hilarious under-the-basket steal in the 2nd half, befuddling the Cornell player. C never gave up.

A blast to watch!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 18, 2005, 11:39:56 pm
Previously I stated that the MWC teams in the MWC/LMC Challenge needed to win by 15 points a game each time out in order to be considered contenders in the conference this year. Ripon did not get the job done as they lost 78-70 to Marian. Beloit on the other hand did get the job done in making short work of Maranatha 94-54.

In the early game Ripon raced out to a quick 6-0 lead and my blow out prediction was on it's way to becoming reality. However, the next time I looked at the scoreboard it was Marian 21 Ripon 8. Ripon started the second half with a 10-0 run to make it 46-42 but could never pull even. They came as close as two but never closer. They have talent, that's obvious, but they didn't really play well as a team and gave up way too many open 3s. Lots of fouls on both sides for a game that was not particularly physical.

The Bucs sealed the deal early in the second game as they had a 51-23 halftime lead. This came with Hinz on the bench for the last 12 minutes of the half with foul trouble. They got sloppy a few times in the second half or they would have easily hung 110+ on the board. The new recruits are for real and their bench is good enough that Maranatha never got a break. I did like seeing them press after they got a big lead. It was very WIAC-like.

Towns will definitely light it up from beyond the arc this year now that he doesn't have to handle the ball all the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 19, 2005, 12:25:26 am
Thanks for the report Roop. What a great stat line for Towns. 23 pts...4-6 from 3's...7 assists and no TO's. And even though Hinz played only 19 min he still had 15 pys and 8 rebounds. It sure was fun watching them get out and run the floor. The freshman pt grd Dowden is very, very good. And with Skelton as the back up pt. they look really solid at the grd spots. Fiek had a great game as well. He's going to be a tough match up for guards in the league. Hendry also played well...and man is he fast and can really jump. If he could just make his layups he'll be really tough to guard.The 2 freshman bigs played well also. Tubbs is really tough inside...a good rebounder. Horton did some good things too....it just looks like he needs to get a little tougher....he was getting balls ripped out of his handsa after getting a good rebound. He's a really good outside shooter.....Good luck tomorrow. Marian played very tough against Ripon. They just seemed to want it more than Ripon did. They are a pretty good team.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 19, 2005, 12:44:28 am
1)  Marantha was really bad

2)  Beloit will clearly be looking to run more this year.  They have the speed and depth to do so but will need to hit the defensive boards hard (tonight was not an inidication of whether or not they can do so, refer to point #1)

3)  For all the talk about the two big freshman moving Hintz to more of a perimiter position, the same frontcourt as last year started with Hintz playing the same position.

4)  Horton, one of the new post players looked very solid on the offensive end (again, refer to point #1) Tubbs, the other looked raw, a step slow and foul prone however, it was his first college game so look for improvement.

5)  Dowden brings better pure point guard play than the Bucs have had in recent years

Really tough to get much of a read on this team from tonights game (tomorrow against Marian should tell some more) but it should be an improvement over last year.  Depth may still be a question at some positions as Skelton looks like a solid backup at PG but Bystead had an awful night when the game was still being contested and there don't appear to be many other options in the backcourt. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 19, 2005, 01:02:00 am
While I doubt that Maranatha will be in Pool C contention should they not get a Pool A this year, beating anybody by 40 is still a good sign. I was expecting a bit more from Tubbs but I think he got in the game much sooner than planned due to Hinzs foul situation. He's certainly not a liability out there that's for sure. He'll own the boards with a few games under his belt.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 19, 2005, 01:14:03 am
"While I doubt that Maranatha will be in Pool C contention should they not get a Pool A this year, beating anybody by 40 is still a good sign."

Any team that Maranatha beats this season should be demoted on the spot to Roop's D4 bracket.  A 40 point win is a positive but a quick look at Beloit schedule reveals almost no opponent aftet tonight who would not also beat Maranatha by about 40.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 19, 2005, 10:15:28 am
Haven't been able to find a box on the GC vs CC game last night, so I guess we can still keep some of the details secret, eh, dc?
Several comments:
1.This is not your fathers "system"...not your brothers, sisters, mothers, cousins, or best friends either. Look out for a topsy turvy, crazy mixed-up, react to whatever the opponent throws at you kind of team this year.
2. With out the box to help, I'm still guessing they hit a good % of the treys, especially in the 2nd half.
3.Quick. very, very quick.
4. When you do finally see the box, don't believe a word/number of it. It won't be the same next game. Or the next either.
5. Not the most talented team at Grinnell...yet, but they will be the most confounding to deal with.

Its gonna be a fun year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 19, 2005, 10:49:47 am
Still no box score on the Grinnell Web site, but they did mention that FRESHMAN John Grotberg had 36 points and FRESHMEN Bobby Long and David Arseneault added 17 and 16 points. If my Grinnell Math BA doesn't fail me 69 points from 3 freshmen. Wow. Haven't seen what the other youngsters did, but if you add sophomore Mike Schmidt's 16, we're up to 85 points from the kiddie corp.

I know the standard response is take all Pioneer scoring numbers with a big grain of salt, but 36 points from a freshman in their first college game is still quite an accomplishment.

You're right jeffp, it does sound like a fun year!

I might have to make that trip in January after all!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 19, 2005, 11:20:02 am
Tough loss for Ripon last night to a very scrappy Marian club.  The game had a lot of "clutch and grab" defense off the ball and never seemed to get in to much of a rythm.

McMullen and Johnson were a combined 1-21 from the field which is something I don't think will happen very often (if ever again).

Ripon did show signs that they can be a very solid club this season. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 19, 2005, 11:47:21 am
AM-
the thing is, you gotta look beyond the numbers (since we really don't have any, anyway) to see how these three open up the prospects for the guys they play with. This team will be so balanced by the time they hit the conference...They have gone from being somewhat disfunctional at the point position to being, well, talented there should we say?

 I dare anyone to concentrate on one of 'em or even all 3 of 'em. Even the 36 point guy does WAY WAY MORE than score. That was a very unselfish effort on his part, BTW.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 19, 2005, 01:33:59 pm
Wow, nice game bucs!  The bench is much improved over the last couple of years, should only help Towns and Hinz to get a breath!  I was impressed with Horton, showed nice rebounding and ability to score underneath!  Dowden is a true point and quick on D.  Fieck and Hendry also looked sweet, Skelton looked pretty good for only practicing 2 days!  (football)
I know Maranatha is not much of an opponent, but I remember in years past when we struggled with them!
should be a better test tonight, The bucs are hungry and they deserve a great season!
Ripon was full of themselves, great potential but you can't look by anyone!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 19, 2005, 10:15:53 pm
Good evening ladies, gentlemen, that other girl, etc.

I'm weening my way off the football site now.   ;D  Our playoff run came to an ubrupt end thanks to #3 St. Johns.  Maybe next year...

I DO have some basketball news.  Monmouth loses their season opener tonight against DII Central Missouri State University 90-61.  Joe Terwelp led the Scots with 14.  Perhaps I can see MC in person while I digest some leftover turkey sandwiches next weekend. 

Looking forward to another fun season.

Scottie

p.s.  My karma took a big hit thanks to many of the MIAC football posters.  I hope many of my friends on this board will come to my aid.   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 19, 2005, 10:31:02 pm
Ripon won 79-61 over Maranatha, but I wasn't impressed enough today to give them a mulligan for yesterday. Despite Maranathas blatant lack of offense they managed to hang around in this one. Ripon finally opened a comfortable lead with about 10 minutes to play but didn't seal the deal until the 5 minute mark.

Beloit was cold in the first half of their game, 41% from the floor to Marians 61%. I didn't stick around for the 2nd half stats but they hung on and won 81-78; despite 12 point leads on several occasions in the second half. Marian nearly tied it on a 75ft at the buzzer that went off the backboard then off the rim. It was close, I have video to prove it. Had Beloit made their free throws down the stretch it wouldn't have been such a nail biter.

In conclusion, Ripon has some issues this year. I think they played better in their loss yesterday than in their win today. Beloit seems to be on the same page as a team, more so than Ripon anyway, but they tend to get one dimensional when the shots aren't falling. Silly fouls also rear their ugly head when that happens.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 20, 2005, 12:22:57 am
A nail biter in Beloit, but the Bucs held on!  Missed free throws kept Marion alive until the end.  Marion is very scrappy and never folded when down by 12 with 6 mins to go.
As far as Ripon goes, I think its obvious how much Becker meant to the team.  He made things happen, even when he wasn't shooting the ball. Ripon  didn't impress me very much.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 20, 2005, 09:59:02 am
Ever since I became an MWC fan, I've been told that Gillespie was this brilliant coach who could win with just about any group of players.  Now it seems there may be a chink in the armor.  Am I reading that right, Go Bucs?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 20, 2005, 10:15:05 am
There may be a chink in the armor.  Gillespie has had alot of talent in years past, but his teams seem to struggle with mediocre opponents.  Maranatha-a very bad team- gave them a run for their money.  Its early in the season, but losing to Marion was a huge upset, maybe Gillespie didn't have his troops ready to go?  All the talk about Ripon, I guess I was looking to see a team that was more polished and primed.  That's why I was not impressed by the redhawks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 20, 2005, 10:55:53 am
Having watched Ripon and Beloit play common opponents on consecutive nights it will now be very interesting  to watch the paths of these two teams during the remainder of the season. 

I have never bought in to the "Gillespie is a genius who can win with anybody" school of thought but if he gets this team to the final four in the MWC I will be very impressed.

Beloit features two seniors who have started for four years, two Juniors who started last year and a freshman PG in their starting line-up.  They looked like a team that had played together with their key pieces in place much more than Ripon did for these two nights.

Based on what I saw for two nights, Beloit should finish ahead of Ripon in the MWC.  However, it is a very long season and the margin is narrow enough that I believe coaching will play a major part in who finishes ahead.  A good test for both coaches.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 20, 2005, 01:24:39 pm
Ripon sucking doesn't bode well for the UW-Green Bay Phoenix, who just got by the Rednecks a week or so ago.   It appears that both UW-GB and Marquette both are in for long years, as Winthrop beat MU last night.

 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 20, 2005, 07:51:02 pm
The next game for both teams will tell a great deal. 11/22 Augustana @Beloit (I can't be there unfortunately) and 11/25 UW-Stevens Point @ Ripon. I'll take Beloit -7 and UW-Stevens Point -13.

12/2 Beloit @Grinnell I'm setting the over/under at 315.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 21, 2005, 10:11:11 am
Fellas,
Yes apparently Ripon didn't look very good this weekend.  A loss to Marian, and a win over Maranatha, who no one thinks is any good.  But remember one thing.....it's EARLY!!!  :D

go bucs I think made the most intelligent statement.....Ripon was full of themselves, and they pro'ly over looked Marian.  But give coach G a week to prepare for someone, and bring in a team that the hawks think they have something to prove like Point and LaCrose, and we WILL see what they are made of then.  But don't judge thinking every team doesn't have a bad night and can't recover.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: M.Flowers on November 21, 2005, 10:22:04 am
Congrats to the Bucs for picking up two wins, I think this is the year they put it together looks like they have a strong mix of young talent and veteran leadership.  They will have a big test with Augie coming into the Flood, can someone give me some info on how the young guys looked I have not seen any of them play it looks as though Horton had a pretty nice weekend.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 21, 2005, 11:38:21 am
scottie,

did you hear any details about the CMSU game?  i am trying to figure out why price only played 14 mins....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 21, 2005, 12:02:30 pm
OFS - I saw the box score and was wondering about Price, myself.  No clue.  He only had 3 fouls.  Toothache??   :)

According to the game summary from the award winning MC SID department, the Mules (yes that's their nickname, women are the Jennies) are ranked #11 in DII right now.  Someday, TG will get that game off of the schedule.  ha ha.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 21, 2005, 12:34:15 pm
April gives scottie karma, and then regrets it, cause he called me "that other girl"  :P
Juuuust kidding dear! :-*

Gotta love that non MWC posters know to write poetry when they step into the room.... quality stuff Hoops Fan! :)

i live in cali now and i am anxious, as i will be able to get my first look at Redlands and compare them to the system!

Hey! A midwest basketball fan exiled out to So Cal just like me? Woo! Where do you live? I live in Riverside County, but toward the south, and out in the wine country, so Redlands is the closest school to me... we should meet up at a game some time and discus how much better midwest basketball is! :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 21, 2005, 01:22:01 pm
M.Flowers,

All the freshmen looked good and Horton and Dowden really stood out. Tubbs will reach that level when he gets more minutes and catches up to the speed of the college game. In limited action Crivello proved he could shoot and Weber is still nursing an injury (as I understand it) and did not play.

This years team goes about 9 deep before they lose anything and is definitely geared for playing games in the 80+ point range. On the down side they may have trouble against physical teams that like to pound it in the middle. They have height but not a lot of size. Speed is their stongest point.

April,

Riverside County is bigger than most states so you'll have to be more specific. I do know where Redlands is though. I don't care how dry the heat is out there, it's still too friggin hot for me. Stock up on sunscreen for the summer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 21, 2005, 02:00:36 pm
The boxscore from Friday's game was finally posted:

http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/includes/ccgc1118.htm

They only achieved 1 of the 5 goals, but they were reasonably close on the others. Some interesting numbers pop up:

1) Cornell tried to play their players an even amount of time; 13 players had between 13 and 16 minutes. That seems unusual. (GC only had 12 players in that range).

2) 57% shooting for Cornell seems very low. I hope that can be attributed to good defense.

3) 8 blocks for Nordlund?! That's huge.

4) Grinnell was 33 of 45 from inside 3pt range. Wow. That's outrageous.

5) 60% free throw shooting likely needs to be better. Maybe if they took a few steps back from the line.  ;D

All in all a good win. Grotberg and little a's numbers look very good. Combined, they were 20-40, 52 points, 10 rebounds and 16 assists. Not bad for a couple of newbies in their first game. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 21, 2005, 02:16:04 pm
With the way Ripon played last weekend, they deserve everything that is coming their way on this board.  There shouldn't have been any doubt in either game as to who the better team was, but as we all know, that's why you play the games.  I want to make a couple points though.  Ripon doesn't start one senior on their team and only their back-up center (deveres) plays significant minutes....so obviously they are young.  Bo Johnson went "0-fer" in the Marian game which probably won't happen again.  Needless to say of those excuses, none of them should have mattered.  I can only hope those guys learn from "over-looking" an opponent.  But like Early said, it's waaaaay too early and a team like Ripon with all Juniors and Soph's starting, it may take a preseason game or two to get them going in the right direction.  Congrats to Beliot on playing well.  They sound like they will be very competitive this year in the MWC.  I'm willing to take any bets right now that Ripon will finish better than Beliot in the MWC.  And as far as Gillespie goes, guys, he's a pretty darn good coach.  Please just look up his resume before you compare one game in 05-06' to his whole career.  Ripon will be ready by march.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 21, 2005, 02:34:25 pm
Thanks, DHF.  Actually, you are THE girl.  Thanks for the karma!  I'm sending one your way as well.   ;)

I think "That other girl" is posting up in between call backs and costume changes.  Right JeffP?

 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 21, 2005, 02:43:38 pm
AM-Unusual for any team but Cornell since they are coached by a former Grinnell assistant coach. I guess Jordan's computer crashed in the second half, so the stats don't show the improvement in 3 pt % in the second half or the fact that all of Nordys blocks were in the second. This was a great first step.

Scottie- You got it! ;D

I don't think I'm gonna put too much creedence in Rippy's weekend performance. They will be up and functioning by january, I'd bet.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 21, 2005, 02:59:29 pm
Riverside County is bigger than most states so you'll have to be more specific.

Psssh, like I'm gonna post the city I live in on the internet, so that you can stalk me with the information?  :D

I think "That other girl" is posting up in between call backs and costume changes.  Right JeffP?

There is another girl on the MWC board?? Who is it? Steve Kohl?  :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 21, 2005, 03:06:03 pm
DHF- my daughter posts up very unoccasionally (i don't even think she has re-registered) under the name Marlo..er That Girl.

You are still the queen of the MWC-and D3hoops for that matter. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 21, 2005, 03:07:55 pm
Aww, you daughter likes d3hoops?? I really must meet her some day!  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 21, 2005, 03:26:01 pm
Ouch, Steve.  That hurts!  :D

Thanks for the Karma points everyone.  I hope to be back to positive numbers by March Madness!!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mac Attack on November 21, 2005, 05:24:17 pm
Anybody know how I can follow the Grinnell-MacMurray game tomorrow night. I understand the local radio station sometimes carries the games - but not tomorrow night. Any other webcast possibilities? Anyone from Grinnell who'll be updating the game??? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 21, 2005, 05:36:23 pm
Ouch, Steve.† That hurts!† :D

 :D Just trying to see if the mention of his name will bring him out of the woodwork  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 21, 2005, 05:59:26 pm
Please don't call out Steve K...  His ego is big enough!  Plus, he's going to go crazy when he see's all of these smiley face options...   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on November 21, 2005, 10:23:26 pm
scottie - This board moves REALLY slow compared to what we went through last week on the football board with the Johnnies!  Too bad you couldn't make it up to SJU for that game, was a great Fighting Scots following around there.  Good call on Steve K, he's gonna go completely nuts with all the smiley possibilities. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 22, 2005, 12:34:39 am
Mav - Due to the outcome of the game, I'm not going to beat myself up too badly for not making the trip to SJU.   :(  I did listen to every minute of the webcast and even called the station to correct the dumba$$ announcer who couldn't pronounce the name of our fine school correctly.  I thought I had heard the name butchered everyway possible, but the Minnesotan came up with a new one...   ???

But since this is a basketball site, I'll finish by saying there's a 76% chance I'll be at the game(s) on Saturday.  I hope they have some t-shirts for sale, because of my swap with K-rat.   

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 22, 2005, 10:11:08 am
Scottie, :)
My guess is that Steve 8) must have missed the smileys when he was called out last time.  Maybe Steve :o was reprimanded for spending too much time on the Internet at work???? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 22, 2005, 10:56:43 am
Mac Attack-
Sorry to report that the local radio station will not be doing the game. I'll do my best to get at least a score posted between the mens and womens game. Sorry, best i can do.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 22, 2005, 11:07:14 am
April gives scottie karma, and then regrets it, cause he called me "that other girl"  :P
Juuuust kidding dear! :-*

Gotta love that non MWC posters know to write poetry when they step into the room.... quality stuff Hoops Fan! :)

i live in cali now and i am anxious, as i will be able to get my first look at Redlands and compare them to the system!

Hey! A midwest basketball fan exiled out to So Cal just like me? Woo! Where do you live? I live in Riverside County, but toward the south, and out in the wine country, so Redlands is the closest school to me... we should meet up at a game some time and discus how much better midwest basketball is! :D



diehard,

I am probably very close to you then, i have left good ol MC and now i am at D3 Chapman U.  redlands is on the schedule this year as well as la sierra and i believe cal baptist. 

last week i saw chapman beat a very big, but not very skilled, australian u-19 national team.  they had a 6'10 18 yr. old who is supposedly high on the trailbalzers wish list.  My opinion, braier would kick his a**.  but thats just me.....

good luck to all the team in the MWC....  ah who am i kidding GO SCOTS-die all teams from Whiz kan sin!!!! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 22, 2005, 01:01:17 pm
CU at Redlands on Saturday.  Ill have a full report on "the system-west."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 22, 2005, 02:01:13 pm
Okay, this is going to make me a nerd, but I tend to plan one great big schedule of games that I'm going to go to every year around this time (to make sure I maximize the bang for my buck, and see all or most of the teams/players I really want to see in the year).  And based on that, I have a thought for you.

Are you sure you wouldn't rather see Pomona Pitzer hosting Wash U? I'm sure that's a game with better quality teams. Really, you can see Redlands anytime. If I wasn't hosting my family for thanksgiving weekend, I would have caught that game, as well as P-P hosting Augsburg Friday.

It's always good to use the preconference time to catch decent teams from decent conferences who happen to be in your area. I'll do this even if it means missing teams that I'd "rather see", or my "home team" if I can see plenty of the prefered team later. Doing this gives you a much better idea (come March) on how to compare teams on a national level. There's more work in it than just "hey, that teams sucked one night so the whole conference sucks) but attending games with teams from many regions is the best place to start.

Just my two cents, take it or leave it. If you see any games involving SCIAC teams, be sure to leave a note over on our board... it get's lonely over here!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 22, 2005, 02:25:27 pm
So, where are all the Larry U fans?  What's your thoughts on the big game tonight against Oshkosh?  You guys think you'll pull the "double" after last year's win?  I'm surprised not to see many opinions on one of the biggest pre-conference games of the year in Wisconsin.  I hoping to make the trek up to Appleton tonight.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 22, 2005, 02:41:41 pm
i saw oxy play here against Pacific Union.  Pacific Union Sucks, but Oxy seems like they would be a top 4 MWC team.  funny enough to say it, but i dont think they are very athletic in comparison to the good MWC teams.  What, Socal teams not as athletic as midwest teams, who'lda thunk it? 

Pomona Pitzer vs. Wash U... hmmm....

id go but i have played against Wash U. and almost went to pitzer, redlands "the system" maybe too good to pass up, (especially since they are playing my new home team) and redlands would just be a short 30 min drive through the canyon......

i have a feeling i may catch redlands a few times this year, maybe even more than CU.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 22, 2005, 02:46:19 pm
Any of you MWCers setting up a MWC pick em league?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 22, 2005, 03:00:36 pm
I'm in as long as Samuel J isn't the commissioner again...   ;D

No, I haven't held a grudge since last season - I just went back to page 1 of this board and was reminded about how I got hosed last year.  ha ha
 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mac Attack on November 22, 2005, 03:20:39 pm
Thanks, jeffp.... Mac plans on running with Grinnell, but I don't think the Highlanders have the shooters they did last year. Mac will 94 feet for 40 minutes, but their offense has changed a little from last year's approach of 50 3-pt shots a game. They took something like 25 against Millikin, and that's about where they need to be. They have some pretty good interior players, and if the ballhandling and passing improves, they'll get plenty of high percentage shots. I'm afariad if they try to match Grinnell shot for shot, it could get ugly. Hope both teams play well - but I'll be rooting for Mac.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 22, 2005, 03:28:41 pm
I LU wins tonight that would be three in a row over Oshkosh.  Not bad for a lowly MWC school over a mighty WIAC power.  OShkosh has an obvious size advantage but Lawrence is a lot faster.  I think Lawrence will try and make this a full court game, pressuring the ball in the backcourt and pushing the ball up the court whenever posssible.  Last years game ended up being low scoring, in my opinion, because the game took place in a smaller, confining, auxillary gym.  I am hoping Lawrence gets enough student support to make Alexander the home court advantage we have all come to love.  Alexander gymnasium= the toughest place to play in the MWC.  The Vikes have only lost one game there in two years.  GO VIKES!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 22, 2005, 03:54:10 pm
Good luck to you, Mac Attack and the whole MacMurray team! I'll get a score on the board between games or after the GC vs CC women's game ends at 9:00.

BTW, better luck to Grinnell! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 22, 2005, 04:29:24 pm
I LU wins tonight that would be three in a row over Oshkosh.  Not bad for a lowly MWC school over a mighty WIAC power. 

Seriously dude.  We all know that the WIAC, overall, is a better conference than the MWC.  But, don't sandbag Lawrence.  They've had more NCAA tourney appearances in those three years than Oshkosh has had.  They were a 3-pt bounce away from going to the Final Four in 2004. 

Lawrence is a powerhouse in the MWC and have been consistently ranked on this site the last few years, so it's not like your talking about some other "lowly MWC school."  Lawrence would do just fine in the WIAC and recent history has proved that.

I think it's going to be a very good game tonight, but Oshkosh should pull out the victory and avenge last year's loss. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 22, 2005, 05:16:05 pm
I think I'm going to begin a countdown until Briar graduates....only one more year we have to listen to LU's uncharted dominance...this is me being bitter


134 days until Briar and LU are no more!!!

GL LU
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 22, 2005, 09:35:44 pm
2:15 to go in the game, 61-59 Lawrence leads in the game, Oshkosh has yet to lead.  Check out the WIAC in-game updates page out in the West region for more updates.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 22, 2005, 09:57:51 pm
I'll let jeffp give a game description but here's the score, GC over MacMurray 132-103.

This game must have been a site to see. 209 total shots taken; 114 of them from 3pt (GC took 86 3pt attempts and made 29). The teams combined for a new NCAA record of 137 total rebounds (68 for GC, 69 for Mac). 68 total turnovers (including 37 steals). Paul Norlund added 6 more blocks tonight.

Here's the boxscore
http://wm2.grinnell.edu//cgi-bin/cafree.dll/details?in=ath&un=&cn=97022297&de=results

One more odd number, 35 different players got in the game. Possibly the busiest scorers table in the history of D3!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 22, 2005, 10:09:09 pm
 Very cool. 8)

Larry beats the #2 team in the poll. Great win for Larry and for the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 22, 2005, 10:11:28 pm
LU wins 82-75 in overtime.  Oshkosh never leads, Yanke held to 5 pts, 0 in the second half
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 22, 2005, 10:16:25 pm
MAc Attack-
You c alled it. Your team tried to shoot treys with very little success, but boy, are the guards quick.

Very fun to watch!

My wife says kinda like playing a 33 1/3 lp at 78. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiefan on November 22, 2005, 10:46:47 pm
Augustana beat Beloit tonight 72-52.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 22, 2005, 11:44:47 pm
3 years in a row, LU outlhustles Oshkosh and that's the bottom line.  LU went 12 deep and some great play from the freshmen as well.

Braier is a horse and McGillis was clutch.  Rosenblatt shot it well too.

Congrats LU.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 23, 2005, 12:19:02 am
Is the air being let out of the Beloit College balloon.  Anyon who thought the freshman were ready to be difference makers now knows just how far they have to go if they were at the gam tonight.

Congratulations to Lawrence on a HUGE win.  It must be nice to get those every season, I remember when Beloit use to. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 23, 2005, 12:58:38 am
I thought they would have trouble playing against a physical team. Was this a game that wound up a 20 point margin at the end, or did Beloit have to rally to make it a 20 point margin????

On a more serious note. I spent the last half hour battling HTML code and am proud to announce the "Roopsville" has officially sold out. The blog now features ads. Make it your home page and buy lots of stuff so I can get a check. DO IT NOW.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 01:01:23 am
Sorry Roop, but I warned you. :-\

Lawrence! Woo! I seriously thought that Oshkosh was going to be it for the WIAC... just based on having seen the same basic guys play well as frosh and sophs two years ago, and that they were returning everyone. Maybe Oshkosh is everything I thought they could be... if so it's going to be a nice year for Larry U fans!  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 23, 2005, 01:20:56 am
re: Oshkosh  (and Lawrence's ability to guage where they are compared to the 2nd ranked team in the country)

I was skeptical of Oshkosh's ranking because of some questions I had about their personel.  Those questions really weren't answered with tonight's games (actually, my skepiticism was confirmed and denied based on the performances tonight).  I also heard that TVD was, himself wary of his team's preseason ranking... from what I heard, he thought it was too high.

Be what it may... it sounded like a really good game.  Of course, Oshkosh won't feel good about it at all... and Lawrence will probably feel better than they should... but either way, I think Lawrence and Oshkosh are headed for good seasons.  It's just way too early IMO for a season to be banked (or thrown away) on the outcome of so early a game.

Btw.... in no way is that a knock on you or what you said April.  I actually was planning on saying this anyway on here, and I noted that you had already commented about something similar.   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 01:37:57 am
Lol PS... My opinions on teams I haven't seen for over a year is not very strong, for obviously logical reasons... so no offense taken!

I'm sure both will have good seasons, but I think all tonight did was make me more confused than I already was about these two teams.  :D I think my post was made in the midst of my current tired stupor, and doesn't reflect on the fact that I think the game could possibly say a lot more of Oshkosh, and potential problems, than Lawrence's potential success this season.

Who knows, all I know is that I am sleepy and my brain isn't working very well. My profound apologies in advance for the fact that this post probably makes even less sense than the last one. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 23, 2005, 02:10:44 am
Hey, reading it as someone who's just as tired and frazzled... it makes perfect sense! 

Now, I don't guaratee that it will tomorrow, but...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2005, 02:32:00 am
If any of you MWCers want to read my game review (i.e. ripping on Oshkosh) of the Larry U win, it's posted on the WIAC page. 

Big win for LU and as Titan2000 said, they just outhustled and outplayed Oshkosh.  Congrats on the big win. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 23, 2005, 02:48:29 am
DHF,

FYI, it's not "Sorry Roop", it's "Sorry ""The Roop"". Don't get it wrong again.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2005, 03:18:39 am

Who knows, all I know is that I am sleepy and my brain isn't working very well. My profound apologies in advance for the fact that this post probably makes even less sense than the last one. :D

And at the time of April's post, it wasn't even midnight out there yet.  Maybe she's used to that East Coast time zone.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 23, 2005, 10:03:34 am
Great win for Lawrence.

Perhaps this can be an early barometer as to what the "Coleman Mafia" thinks about LU (and the MWC).  Looking at the current Top 25 poll, Lawrence is at #37.  If history is a guide, the Vikings impressive win over #2 Oshkosh ought to move them up a spot or two - maybe all the way up to #34.

GO MWC!  (Especially the Scots!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on November 23, 2005, 11:30:19 am
I think the Beloit Frosh werent prepared for how hard a top caliber team really plays. Augie scored 45 points in the 1st half. Beloit did play much better and harder (mainly on defense) and Augie only scored 27 in the 2nd. It was a 12 pnt game for most of the 2nd half. turned into a 20 pnt loss late in the mop up time.  The young guys arent there yet but they showed sings of being very good. Horton had several blocks and should have had a few others but got called for a few questionable fouls.

I think if a loss is ever a good thing this one was. It shows the team how much farther they have to go. I still think they will be very compedative in the league.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 11:46:47 am
PS: it still makes sense to me.... or is that because I'm still sleepy?  :o


Who knows, all I know is that I am sleepy and my brain isn't working very well. My profound apologies in advance for the fact that this post probably makes even less sense than the last one. :D

And at the time of April's post, it wasn't even midnight out there yet.  Maybe she's used to that East Coast time zone.  ;D

 :D :D :D  :P Goooosh Tom! Give me a break! My brain that want to stay up as late as I did back in college is having an epic struggle with my body that is growing weary from having to leave the house at 7:20 everyone morning after only sleeping five or less hours.  :D After nearly two months of "hey, three and  half hours is a whole sleep cycle!" my body is starting to win. In the end will be for the best I guess (I'm getting OLD!). :'( I also have a wicked chest cough that's stuffing up my head, and have been working late to earn comp time before Christmas so I can go home for a while. My vacation time for my new job doesn't kick in until almost exactly when the CCIW conference season starts. Hmmmmm....  ;D

I have to disagree with scottie, I think Lawrence will sneak into the top 25.  :P ;) However, Oshkosh will take a significant hit, and Lawrence will have to compete with other WIAC teams who will getting more points from the Oshkosh fallout.

Okay, I think I've officially overdosed on the...

Smilies!  :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'( Smilies!  :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(

Does anyone really need more evidence that I am not getting enough sleep?  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 23, 2005, 12:04:21 pm
"It was a 12 pnt game for most of the 2nd half. turned into a 20 pnt loss late in the mop up time.  The young guys arent there yet but they showed sings of being very good. "

It was a 14-18 point game almost the entire second half (check the play by play) with Beloit clawing back to 12 with just over 5 left before Augie put them away.

As with any recruiting class, this one simply can't be judged as the "young guys as a group" as some players are well ahead of others.  After three games, Horton is very interesting as he has a nice skill set and could be a real offensive force.  Dowden runs a solid point and will bring stability while allowing Towns to play the shooting guard.  .  Tubbs is a project.  He rebounds well but averages about a foul every three minutes and is lmited at this point on the offensive end.  Crivello (sorry Roop but 1-2 in his first two games does not demonstrate that he is a shooter) looks solid when it comes to fundamentals and is the kind of kid that every team needs over the course of a season but he is a long way from making much of a difference when a game is on the line.  The injured kid from Parkview clearly would have helped as well.

In short, this is a solid recruiting class but a long way from proving they are capable of being a group that conference championships are built around.  There is a lot of upside and a great deal of time for improvement.  THe real key is for the coach to produce this type of class (1-2 players with starting and potential star ability, 2-3 solid backups - part time starters) every year, not once every three years. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on November 23, 2005, 12:08:11 pm
The freshman of Beloit saw how great of a team that Augie is.  They are flat out talented.  I think they would beat most MWC teams, and that's including Larry!  Augie goes deep on the bench, and has 3 6'9 guys, they just kept pounding on Beloit, and there were no calls made.  Beloit was rattled from the start with some turnovers, and just never could recover that 12 point margin.  It's a great learning experience for the frosh, and they'll get better because of it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 23, 2005, 12:24:12 pm
We'll see about LU's rankings, DHF.  Since you are fast approaching post # 3000, you may know what you're talking about...  :P

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 23, 2005, 01:10:57 pm
Great win for LU and the MWC.  Alex is definately one of the hardest places to win.

I love scottie's comment...maybe LU will move up to #33?!?!

NO RESPECT!

As far as the Augie/Beliot game, I'm pretty sure Augie lost a couple really good players from last years team (I think they were Bauman and another athletic guard).  I'm not saying they can't be better, but Ripon beat them @ Augie last year (Becker played 15 min. max that game) so losing to them by 20 at home isn't that great.  Who knows though its early, everyones trying to find their identity as a team.  Don't go crazy gobucs, Augie probably wouldn't beat this years LU team at home....maybe at all for that matter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2005, 01:55:18 pm
Great win for LU and the MWC.  Alex is definately one of the hardest places to win.

I love scottie's comment...maybe LU will move up to #33?!?!

NO RESPECT!

In all honesty, I think it has more to do with the team LU puts out on the floor (and conference foes), rather than the crowd, at least last night.  As one poster said, the students were on break, which I didn't know at the time.  The Oshkosh crowd was more vocal than the home crowd until about 5 minutes to go in the game and in overtime, that's when the LU crowd "showed up".  They weren't very loud at all until the end. 

LU has had some solid teams recently, but the fact that the MWC isn't a real strong conference top to bottom makes it hard for the voters to put LU in the top 25 when all they have to beat is maybe two real quality conference opponents (in the nation's eyes) every year. 

I think part of the reason LU was ranked so low this year is because they lost several senior starters (3?) and only returned Braier and MacGillis.  Add that to the perceived weak MWC, they probably won't get too much love.  I remember when Grinnell started out the year real hot, got some votes, jumped into the top 25 and then took a nose dive.  And don't give me this "no respect" crap.  After taking Point to the wire in the Elite 8 the previous year and returning basically everyone, LU was ranked #7 in last year's preseason poll. 

My feelings are that, along with LU, Ripon (though without Becker) and Carroll are both solid programs in the MWC. 

I definitely feel LU will be fine and they'll get their respect you guys think they aren't getting.  The earned and deserved last night's win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 23, 2005, 02:27:29 pm
Assuming LU doesn't lose a game before the next poll, I'll predict they will not only enter the top 25, they'll enter at about the mid-teens.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 23, 2005, 03:02:13 pm
Mr. Ypsi:  You too may be heading toward 3000 posts, but in this case I think you're off your rocker...   :)  That would be about a 20-place jump in the polls.  I'll say Pcole let's them inch up to 32...maybe 31 if he's in a giving mood.   >:( 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 03:22:12 pm
Ack! After all this time, chuck is catching up to me!  :o

Lol... chuck, do you remember back in the day when we were racing to something (500? 1000?) and I started to blow you away? Guess the whole not posting on the CCIW Chat really got me out of the running  :-\ :-[

My post was obviously based on Larry not losing before the next poll, incidentally, in case that wasn't obvious.  :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 23, 2005, 03:31:06 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if LU was in the top 25 next poll (baring no losses) because of their recent history and the fact that they probably realize LU should have been a top 25 team in the preseason.  Look the MWC is a good good conference...and it keeps getting better overall.  The problem is we don't get any recognition because we play in the toughest region in America.  If the mwc is in the East or West coast, one of the teams would probably have made a run to the final four which, in this case with the voters, would give the conference more respect.  And say what you want to say about us, but LU is a school app. around 2,000 students competing with state schools that run around 10,000 students...its quite an advantage don't you think?

As far as the LU's gym (Alex) it is very very difficult to play at.  First of all, it's awkward cause it only has one side of bleachers and only one side of the court has a wall in back of it.  It can throw off a players depth perception.  Secondly, and i don't know if its changed this year, but the hoops are different.  One hoop seems like you're shooting on a 10 1/2 foot hoop and the other is like shooting on a 9 1/2 foot hoop.  If you aren't used to the gym it is extremely difficult to shoot well for these reasons....and imagine what the score would have been if you have the entire student section pumping up the team the whole game....the players really feed of the fans

As far as the MWC competition....I bet if you look up LU's and Ripon's record vs. non-conference opponents, even on neutral sites, you will see a lot of very good, play-off caliber type teams that didn't win...In the last four years Ripon has beaten Ill. Wes, Augie (twice), Babson(twice), Hanover, Keene State, UW-Lacrosse, Northpark....these are the only teams i can remember off the top of my dumb head. I'm sure Lake Forest and Carroll have had some quality wins aswell.

PS- Ripon's been a pretty darn good program when Becker wasn't there...oh yeah his brother played on a team that won 20 straight in 1999.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 23, 2005, 03:48:02 pm
Anyone want to tell me how Lawrence is going to be down this year?  It seems the last couple years of success has reaped some huge benefits in the form of recruiting.  Great teams don't rebuild, they reload.  Go Vikes!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 23, 2005, 03:56:52 pm
133 days until Briar and LU are no more :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 23, 2005, 04:09:46 pm
Mr. Ypsi:  You too may be heading toward 3000 posts, but in this case I think you're off your rocker...   :)  That would be about a 20-place jump in the polls.  I'll say Pcole let's them inch up to 32...maybe 31 if he's in a giving mood.   >:( 

Don't forget that Pat only has 1 of the 25 votes.

I'm going on the assumption that most of the voters think Oshkosh is still a very good team (falling only to, say, 8 or 9), and that therefore LU was GREATLY underestimated.  Of course, they MAY draw the opposite conclusion (that UW-O was grossly over-rated), and NOT raise their opinion of LU nearly as much.

I don't know how many voters will draw which conclusion, but I'm assuming many more will take the former rather than the latter.  (I suppose it also depends how each of the teams does in OTHER games before the next vote.)

BTW, when IS the next poll?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 04:15:09 pm
Well, hoopsville took a week off for the holidays, I assume the poll is doing the same as well?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2005, 04:32:30 pm
Just some feedback...

I'm sure the perception of LU having a down year had to do with the fact that they lost senior all-conference starters in Holinbeck and Evans, and Brandon Falls.  That's three starters.  Give the general public and voters a little break.  ;D

I agree that the MWC is getting better and better.  But in the past, it's been Lawrence (in the very recent past) and Ripon.  That's all folks.  Lawrence has been a solid program in the nation's eyes for just two years and the MWC hasn't done well in the national scene prior to that.  They don't have the history like some conferences do, that's why they are overlooked.  But, LU, along with Ripon, and the emergence of other teams like Carroll, should get MWC on the map.  

When it comes to tourney time, Lawrence and other MWC teams have been put in the "west region", haven't they?  They've played Buena Vista, Gustavus Adolphus, Point, etc.

And no, the pure number of students attending a school isn't that much of an advantage.  This isn't high school where you get to pick from the school's population.  It's not like you only have 2000 students to pick from while your public schools have 10000 students to pick from.  There are advantages, like cost and all that, but please, let's not start that argument again, it gets real boring.

The Alex is interesting.  Zorn arena in Eau Claire has the baseline walls right on top of you too.  I'm glad to see Alex add bleachers on the other end of the baseline, to add capacity.  It's a nice addition.  Not sure about the hoops.

Beating the likes of North Park and La Crosse haven't been too hard in recent years.  North Park is horrible.  I'm not so sure Keene State is all that good either, but I'll leave that up to someone else to decide.  Ripon's win over Hanover (last year?) was real nice though, I'll give you that.

I think the next poll will come out the week after Thanksgiving, possible the following week.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on November 23, 2005, 05:01:23 pm
mwc4life,
               I believe Ripon fans were posting last year that they couldn't wait for last years seniors to graduate.  They were convinced that LU's fortunes would change dramatically when they left.  I don't believe that is going to be the case.  What a lot of people on this board don't realize is that Tharp has done a great job of building this program for the future.  The underclassmen on Lawrence can play.  Tharp is now able to go after kids he couldn't get before.  Now he is selling not only a great school, but a team with strong support within the University that  plays in games of national consequence.  You say 133 days until Bopper graduates, fine.  I say 133 more days until LU lands its next stud recruit.     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 23, 2005, 05:17:12 pm
I agree that the MWC is getting better and better.  But in the past, it's been Lawrence (in the very recent past) and Ripon.  That's all folks.  Lawrence has been a solid program in the nation's eyes for just two years and the MWC hasn't done well in the national scene prior to that.  They don't have the history like some conferences do, that's why they are overlooked.  But, LU, along with Ripon, and the emergence of other teams like Carroll, should get MWC on the map. 

Lol OS... did you not know that Beloit used to be a major powerhouse??

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/century/nov99/mill111499.asp

Beloit was so big I believe they even made the great moments in wisconsin book.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1931599459/103-7874011-9195806?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on November 23, 2005, 05:34:40 pm
diehardfan et al.:

This goes under the heading of "I'm-a-Geezer-and-I-Can-Prove-It": I clearly remember -- as clearly as a geezer can -- the year that Beloit went to the NIT. I was [ :o] a high school junior in Texas and had a vague idea where Beloit (and Wisconsin, for that matter) was. At the time, I remember thinking that it must be somewhere north of Oklahoma.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUVikings04 on November 23, 2005, 05:59:20 pm
First off, a great win for LU...both Braier & MacGillis played a heck of a game.  3 in a row versus Osh Kosh is a great accomplishment for these seniors.  New freshman Kroeger looks like a great pick up for Tharp & his crew.  I know that he is only a freshman & only has a few games under his belt on a collegiate level, but what I have seen and heard about him during practices, he is only going to get better. I could not agree more with LU 05 in terms of what Tharp has done for the LU program.  In years past, he consistently brought in good role players & seldomly had all-star caliber players (with a few exceptions Huff, DePactor, Lavoy, Braier) but now he is getting a chance to talk to & recruit  better Athletes. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on November 23, 2005, 06:11:23 pm
If LU beats MSOE on saturday, they should make a huge jump in the rankings.  Pre-season rankings are very soft.  Lu beat the crap out of Gustavas last year and Gustavas lost their best player...yet they were ranked and LU was not.  Same with Platville.  Lu beat them both at home and brought 2 of their 3 best players (Braier and McGillis) back.  They have had two good straight recruiting years.  I am not surprised they beat Oshkosh for the third straight year.

If they are not in the teens,  I will be surprised. 

While the MWC has been pretty solid at the top, the early results this year are not that encouraging....bad loss by Ripon and Beloit.    I do think Becker was special and will be missed....going to make Ripon easier to defense.  I don't think you can argue with the top of the MWC the last two years..LU beat Oshkosh, Carthage, Platville, BV and Gustavas.  Ripon beat Augie.

Time will tell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 23, 2005, 06:54:43 pm
If MSOE was ranked, I'd agree that LU would make a huge jump in the rankings.  But you also have to realize, if "your" prediction of LU making it into the teens, they also have to jump 20 other teams to do so. 

Beating Oshkosh was a heck of a feat and I don't take anything away from LU for doing so.  MSOE is in a horrible conference.  The sounds of it, they might actually be pretty decent this year though.  But, all because Larry U beats the #2 team in the nation, doesn't mean they'll jump 20+ spots.  I know a lot of other top-25 teams have dropped games already, so I think LU will be ranked come the next poll. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 23, 2005, 07:55:21 pm
Let's take a look here for a second at where Lawrence is on most voters ballots...  They recieved 24 points in the last top 25 so, with 25 voters, they averaged recieving votes just outside of #25.  Now, a win against the #2 team in the country could cause them to jump up to... oh, I dunno, let's say 17 on the top 25 ballots.  So, instead of getting one point per voter at #25, they would get 8 pts per ballot for #17.  That would give them 136 points, which would put them at 22nd in the LAST poll.  Now, the question is, how much will they move up on the voters' ballots?  They couldn't possibly be on everyone's ballot (they would have had to have gotten 25 points for that to be possible), but they WERE on some people's ballots...  So some of the voters thought highly of them, and a win like last night's will only improve their standing with those voters who already had them in the top 25.  Now, there are OTHER voters... a win like last night's win could (probably should?  I dunno, that's to be discussed) propel Lawrence into the top 25.  I guess the only question is where...

So, barring a loss before the next top 25 (and depending what happens across the country) Lawrence COULD jump into the top 25. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2005, 11:31:37 pm
Great win for Lawrence.

Perhaps this can be an early barometer as to what the "Coleman Mafia" thinks about LU (and the MWC). 

Seeing as this conference has actually beaten Top 25 teams and won NCAA playoff games in recent years, it's hardly the same as the MWC's football situation.

Interesting that you choose to complain about this after the results of the MWC's playoff foray validated the poll.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2005, 11:36:53 pm
Wow, a lot of discussion of the poll, and not a lot of remembering that Lawrence was as high as No. 4 last year and spent much of the second semester in the Top 15.

If that isn't respect, I don't know what is. Yes, I'm sure voters were turned off by the loss of three starters but I would be surprised if they forget that last year they thought Lawrence was pretty darn good.

Big-time inferiority complex from the Monmouth faithful. Basketball and football are different sports and the view of the MWC is different between the two. Sheesh.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: showtimeSmyHero on November 24, 2005, 11:42:10 am
Will MSOE be ranked or get votes if they beat LU and stay undefeated?  MSOE's gaurds are tuff -- and probably better players and athletes than LU's.  I guess Oshkosh was susposed to have better athletes/players... and we saw what happened there.  Anyway---- i think MSOE's gym is going to be packed for the game.... get there early.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 24, 2005, 02:48:34 pm
Will MSOE be ranked or get votes if they beat LU and stay undefeated?  MSOE's gaurds are tuff -- and probably better players and athletes than LU's.  I guess Oshkosh was susposed to have better athletes/players... and we saw what happened there.  Anyway---- i think MSOE's gym is going to be packed for the game.... get there early.

No offense, but you need to get out and see some games outside of the powerful LMC before you make comments like that.  Braier is a stud and MacGillis is also a great player.  There is a difference between athlete and player.  Larry U has both.  They play great defense, so watch out.  Everyone seems to be burying Oshkosh already.  it's one game.  They'll be there at the end.  And, like I said, in the LMC page, there is no way Marian is going to be ranked even if they beat Lawrence...maybe some votes, if that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on November 24, 2005, 05:10:56 pm
First off, if there's anything that Tharp knows how to do, it's Prepare his boys for EVERY game. If LU were to go and lose to MSOE (knock on wood) the reasons may be many, but unpreparedness won't be one. Tharp will have his team ready to go. Two years ago, when LU beat Oshkosh and played MSOE next we took em by fortyish. If MSOE wins, it'll be because they outplayed us.
Secondly, I think we're all really paying a little too much attention to the rankings, especially this early in the season. It may be a matyter of respect, but what it's gonna be more than that is a matter of perfectly understandable ignorance. At the DIII level, only Grinnell will ever get on ESPN, so voters (whoever they are) aren't gonna know much about a small Liberal Arts school in Northern WIsconsin. I forgive them if LU goes undefeated and isn't ranked for a few more games. And the real issue here, I think, is that we on the board can argue as much as we want about rankings and national respect, but Tharp and his players care even less than I do.  Sure, it'd be nice to brag to some of our friends that LU is ranked in the top 25, but the inevitable answer to such a boast from most basketball fans in the country will be "well yeah, in the DIII top 25..."
I suppose the moral of the story is that I would love to see more posts from MSOE and LU fans talking about the GAME than MWC posters complaining (even rightly so) about lack of national respect due to rankings. Wins and losses, baby. That's really all it comes down to. Wins and Losses.

Signed
Thevicar

LU '06 or maybe '07
1-0 each game night is all it takes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 25, 2005, 08:57:03 am
Congrats on the Vikes on a huge win over Oshkosh.  It sucks not being around the team anymore, and being stuck back at home in the twin cities.  Hopeflly will be able to come up for the big LU win over Ripon in January, and yes for all those Ripon posters a week or so ago, these LU posters are wusses, actually giving RC credit! :)

Just kidding Redhawk backers, you guys will have a good team this year, and I expect another good tussle in Alex on Jan 7th.

I assume the Vikes will be ranked, I mean with their past history, I agree with people that they were lower ranked this year because of the loss of Holly, and Falls and Evans, they were this team for 4 years..but never underestimate Chris Braier and Kyle MacGillis.  Those two guys are scary good.  And with the freshman stepping up like they have and Rosenblatt stepping in well for Danny....these guys could go a long way...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 25, 2005, 09:18:23 am
Larry U:

Why do you have to be in the Twin Cities?

Maybe you should move to the real Twin Cities of Neenah/Menasha?

What kind of work do you do?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 25, 2005, 12:01:14 pm
Congrats on the Vikes on a huge win over Oshkosh.  It sucks not being around the team anymore, and being stuck back at home in the twin cities. 

You can go to those MIAC games.  Some of them are actually pretty good, from what I hear.  Expand your D3 basketball horizens.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 25, 2005, 03:34:39 pm
Grinnell has an exhibition game with South Australia tonight (Friday). This could be an interesting match between a very tall, young, inexperienced Aussie team and a GC team that has found its early legs. The two teams had Thanksgiving dinner together yesterday. We'll see who eats turkey tonight! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 25, 2005, 06:58:20 pm
Read these comments from the Appleton Post Crescent following the LU victory over Oshkosh.  I bet this really pisses off the LU guys.  Suprised TVD would say this but maybe he was too angry to think on his feet.  Wow.

"For Oshkosh, it was a painful lesson that life in college basketball's penthouse is strictly rental property.

"Our guys really haven't adjusted to a team that's going to be chased," said Titans coach Ted Van Dellen. "That's a different attitude. Like I said, this is their Super Bowl right here. You get all those accolades at the beginning of the year and you've got to learn to handle it and we just didn't.


"No loss is a good loss but I'll tell you what, I think this was an eye opener for these fellas. They get all that crap early on and you think you're a little bit better than what you are and all of a sudden Ö"

Comments must have been taken out of context.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 25, 2005, 07:08:37 pm
""That's a different attitude. Like I said, this is their Super Bowl right here."

I guess that makes Lawrence 3-0 in Super Bowl's over the past three seasons right coach?  Perhaps you should actually win something first, then begin making comments like this.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 26, 2005, 12:01:36 am
Point tops Ripon tonight by 10, 99-89.  Point had control for all of the first half, going up by 21 at the break, 46-25.  Point had no problem with Ripon throughout the first half of the 2nd half, but the wheels fell off when Hicklin and Krull sat for nearly 7 minutes due to foul trouble.  Ripon started nailing threes and forcing turnovers.  They actually cut it to 9 a couple of times.  But, Krull and Hicklin came back in and restored some order.  As usual, Krull led the way with 26.  Hicklin with 22 and Bauer with 13. 

McMullin caused troubles with his quickness and had 27 and Bo Johnson shot for 28.  Two very good players that I remember from last year.  Surprised Schmitting didn't do more damage inside.

Slopping game at times as both teams were in the double bonus with 7 minutes to go in the game. 

Ripon gets La Crosse tomorrow night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 26, 2005, 01:17:54 am
Hmmmmmmm. Ripon actually covered "The Roops" UWSP -13 line tonight. Blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then I guess. Of course "home officiating" has always benefitted the Red Men. "The Roop" sees a let down against LaCrosse so don't be surprised if Ripon starts the season 1-3.

Schmitting can't score unless he is allowed unlimited pushing underneath. By now most officials know that. Sounds like late 3 point shooting kept them in this game tonight but that is hardly a strong point of theirs. I still see no evidence that Ripon will make the conference tournament this season.

Now before everybody in Ripon that actually know how to operate a computer start whining and giving "The Roop" - Karma; "The Roop" hasn't said that Beloit will make the MWC Tournament either.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mac Attack on November 26, 2005, 06:53:09 am
How good is Dominican? They eased by a couple of SLIAC teams, then upset Aurora. I understand they have some pretty good athletes, but not sure about their history. What kind of offense and defense do they play, who are some of their better players, and predictions on tonight's game against MacMurray?

Thanks!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 26, 2005, 11:35:17 am
How good is Dominican? They eased by a couple of SLIAC teams, then upset Aurora. I understand they have some pretty good athletes, but not sure about their history. What kind of offense and defense do they play, who are some of their better players, and predictions on tonight's game against MacMurray?

Thanks!

Wrong room, Mac Attack. Dominican is in the LMC, not the MWC. And nobody in the LMC room will be able to tell you anything about the Stars, either, since they're new to that league this season.

I've seen Dominican this year, and they're definitely an upper-50-percentile Midwest Region team. I suspect that they'll beat MacMurray by about 10-12 points.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on November 26, 2005, 04:19:19 pm
Is anyone else trying to listen to the webcast of the Lawrence - MSOE basketball game? All I get is garbled sound. Might anyone know if MSOE is broadcasting the game from their campus station, or if there is at least a live stats page somewhere? Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: da_foreigner on November 26, 2005, 04:50:38 pm
LU 31 - MSOE 26 @ half
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 26, 2005, 05:46:32 pm
Thanks to da foreigner for updates on the LMC board:

He deserves some karma points but I have none to give.  :-[



     Re: Lake Michigan Conference MBB
ę Reply #180 on: Today at 05:39:45 PM Ľ   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Score LU 74 - MSOE 53

LU pulled away with about 12mins left in the 2nd.  Ultimately LU had too much size inside.  Very nice crowd in the Kern tonight; almost a full house.  Do the Lawrence supporters always travel like this?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tps040580 on November 26, 2005, 07:38:37 pm
Lake Forest finally got over the hump and beat Benedictine today 80-73 after losing a pair of games they haven't looked to good in. It will be interesting to see if they can string a few together before they break for the holiday. Carleton, SNC, Carroll, @North Park, @Loyola, and @Augustana could really be a rough stretch for a team that should be pretty competitive in the league.

Roop, if Ripon has a game where McMullen, Murphy, and Johnson go 2-26, they won't win. If they shoot 7-24 and turn the ball over 8 times in a half, they probably won't win.  I think its early and they will turn it around.  I doubt they will shoot so poorly next week against Monmouth and if they shoot that poorly against Grinnell... uh that won't happen. ;) Speaking of Grinnell, Jeffp, can you explain the Grinnell exhibition. 121-43? Were they playing an amateur rugby team? I remember a few years back they doubled up Monmouth, but they basically tripled them up. Where is the international diplomacy? :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on November 26, 2005, 08:17:17 pm
""That's a different attitude. Like I said, this is their Super Bowl right here."

I guess that makes Lawrence 3-0 in Super Bowl's over the past three seasons right coach?  Perhaps you should actually win something first, then begin making comments like this.

Let me play devil's advocate here for a second....

If you look at Lawrence's schedule, they will PROBABLY not play another team in the Top 25 all season, as right now Carroll is the only other team that is even garnering any votes.  Who knows, maybe Ripon or Carthage may be able to sneak in, but I doubt it.  With that being said anytime you play the #2 team in the country, it is going to have a "Super Bowl" type feel to it.  (I would assume if you asked Tharp or TVD, the previous two meetings weren't "Super Bowls" for Lawrence or UWO because both of them knew they had to go through UWSP.)  This was probably the first time in three meetings where UWO was the "favorite" to win, regardless of the difference in strength of respective conferences. 

As far as the "why don't you win something first" statement, TVD and UWO have been able to do something 4 out of 5 seasons that neither Lawrence or any other MWC team has been able to do and that is beat UWSP.  And the last time I checked, UWO made it just as deep in the 2003 NCAA Tournament as Lawrence has ever made it (2004) so I guess both coaches still need "to win something first." ::) ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 26, 2005, 08:27:35 pm
Finlandia is playing their "Super Bowl" at Kolf tonight.   I hope they don't have any dreams of winning.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 26, 2005, 11:19:35 pm
Monmouth 100, Eureka 68 in the first of two weekend games in the Scots' holiday tournament.

Joe Terwelp (regular posters might be asking "Who?") had a breakout game, netting 35 points on 15-of-17 shooting. Not all of them were bunnies -- he was 3-for-3 beyond the arc.

Another new player, Raun Singleton ("Who?" again), was also in double digits.

The Fighting Scots, almost a playoff team last year, should be a big factor in the MWC race this year.

I'll try to update after tomorrow's action (vs. Westminster) as well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 27, 2005, 01:10:10 am
"As far as the "why don't you win something first" statement, TVD and UWO have been able to do something 4 out of 5 seasons that neither Lawrence or any other MWC team has been able to do and that is beat UWSP"

But, using your logic and that of the UW 0 coach the wins over UWSP are somehow diminished since it could be viewed as UW 0's "Super Bowl" right?

For the third straight year, Lawrence beat UW 0.  For their coach to in any way imply that somehow the game meant more to LU than it did to his club is

1)  An indictment of his ability to prepare his team

2) A fairly classless comment

By the end of the year, UW 0 may well be the best team in D3 basketball.  They certainly enjoy huge advantages over a school like LU in obtaining players.  LU beating them three times in a row is a great accomplishment for Tharp and his kids no matter what spin the UW 0 coach puts on it. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on November 27, 2005, 08:59:41 am
Lakeland beat Point last night.

Point will be a hard team to call this year, could beat you any night.

Sure glad they beat Ripon   :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 27, 2005, 09:35:39 am
The grinnell game was one of the strangest I've seen in a long time. The Aussies would hold the ball for 32 seconds only to have it stolen by Grinnell-there must have been 50 TO's in this game. While the delay tactics kepts GC from ripping it up big time, the strategy of not shooting at all didn't help the Aussie point total. You know how the system works, if you can't shoot  treys against it you have to make your chippies. The Aussies didn't even take those shots!!! At least Coach A was able to use every combination possible-and discovered some new very workable ones at that!

This was an under 20 team that averaged 6'5" across the back and 6'3" across the front. Lots of raw talent, most of it inside. The Aussie coaching strategy made this game lop sided.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 27, 2005, 06:36:19 pm
Monmouth 75, Westminster 63

Terwelp and Blaise Rogers led the way with 17 each. In an interesting occurence, Monmouth was perfect down the stretch, making its final five field goals and 11-of-11 free throws in the final 5:34 to pull away.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augiedad on November 27, 2005, 08:40:10 pm
Illinois College beat Dominican today.

http://d3hoops.com/releases.php?release=49156

Aurora's loss to Dominican looks worse all the time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 28, 2005, 12:56:43 am
Until Trinity gave Point all it wanted in the Tournament last year, Lakeland was actually the closest non-conference game (12 points) that Point had had since last losing a non-conference game at Gustavus Adolphus in the 2001 Tournament. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on November 28, 2005, 01:08:07 am
Well it looks like the Grinnell boys have come out and had a solid start to the season. I bet Jeff P is as happy as a virgin in church. Why not?

Jeffp and other grinnelians, me and my old white ass is headed down to Grinnell this weekend for the Beloit game Friday. If Mrs. Grinnellfan68 wants to stay for saturday, we might do that, but I have to go to the hospital on Monday, so it's a touchy subject.

So put a candle in the window of Saint's Rest, jeffp...we'll be celebrating Saturday morning over waffles and coffee.

Much love to all of you, especially you Rooper. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on November 28, 2005, 09:04:20 am
Did I just read JeffP and virgin in church in the same sentence?....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 28, 2005, 09:17:03 am
So jeffp, what was the response of the Aussies to the final score?

In the past we've seen anger, resentment, etc. when the margin of victory is considered 'too large'. We're the Aussies upset? Simply stunned? Amused?

There isn't a box score for the game, but you were right on the TO's. The story on the GC website says there were 52. Grotberg had 41 and made 8 of 15 from 3pt range.

It doesn't sound like much of a game. Actually glad I didn't try to make the drive over from Galena.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on November 28, 2005, 09:48:41 am
I was at the Ripon game on saturday vs. UW-Lax, Ripon looked horrible.  I went up there with not high expecations but couldn't believe how bad they really looked.  A Ripon parent said that they looked better sat. then fri.  They didn't really know how to handle the ball, no rebounds, passes hitting each other, balls not being watching and going out of bounds off their shoes or knees.  Ripon look horrible, they better change something soon or they won't even make the tourny.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 28, 2005, 10:31:35 am
Sorry to jump in so late here... My computer at home has "special needs" right now and is at the doctor's office.

Nice weekend for the Scots.  Sorry I missed the action.

Pat - I know that there was no bigger smile than your's after our playoff game.  Thanks for bringing it up.  As for MWC basketball, my earlier post was more of a thoughtful inquiry rather than a complaint.  Your response about a Monmouth inferiority complex was a knee-JERK reaction in my opinion.  Have a super day.

 :-* Scottie     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 28, 2005, 10:33:26 am
I'm in the geologic testing field, I do soils testing etc.  I wanted to find a job in the madison area, but nothing good was there, just happened to fall ito the job i have now, which isn;t the most fun, but pays really quite well for a first job out of college.  

Yeah I will definately be checking out some MIAC games, I actually was a huge MIAC fan in high school, ST. Thomas back when then had the Buri brotherts were some fun teams to watch, and thier women back when they were in the final 4 every year was great.  It still was nie to crush the MIAC in the tourny last year though.  

Still hopig to make it to thaty Ripon game up in Appleton....should be one hell of a show..
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 28, 2005, 10:57:16 am
"The Roop",

That's not true.  Point beat Lawrence by one on a shot with 5 seconds to go in overtime two seasons ago to go to the Final Four.  Then, Jason Kalsow hit a fade away 12 footer with .2 seconds to go in a little game we call the National Championship game that same year.  Both those games were closer than the Lakeland game last season.  And if you're going to count the GAC game in 2003, at UWSP (that's when and where it actually was played, not 2001 in Minnesota), then you have to count those Tournament games from two seasons ago.  Are they non-conference games?  Yes, technically they are.  But they're not regular season games.  Point hadn't lost a regular season non-con since Dec 29th, 1999.

The game you're talking about against Lakeland last year (UWSP's 11 pt. win), Nick Bennett had an uncharacteristicly bad shooting night (2/13 from the floor, 1/4 from 3).  I asked him about it and he just told me he was off that night, that he couldn't hit anything.  Luckily for Point, they had more weapons.

So, basically, you're statement was pretty much correct... I just had to fix a few details!  :-)

.... though, techically, UWSP's non-conference win over UW Oshkosh in the Vegas Christmas tournament in 2003-2004 was closer (63-55)... but I guess that's just semantics, huh?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 28, 2005, 11:32:31 am
GF68-
yer gonna have to get yer waffles elsewhere, we don't serve 'em at Saints Rest. Just Cinnamon Rolls, Scones, and later in the day, cakes. You won't go hungry, but you won't eat waffles. I do look forward to finding out who the heck you are, though.

That could be quite a morning at Saints Rest. "The Roop" will be here as will the entire Henry Ford Women's basketball team along with their coach. The guy that runs the "System" Website will also be at the shop. :D

Look forward to seeing all of you for a great weekend of Basketball.

BTW-The Aussie team didn't show much emotion one way or another after the game, AM. I wonder if they know that the coaching decisions took em out?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 28, 2005, 11:35:17 am
Please note that there is a MWC Pick'em thread.  It sounds like Larry U has offered to be the commish.  Thanks Larry U.

JeffP - Will you chair the awards committee?   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 28, 2005, 12:30:05 pm
Schwanman

the stats look good for the scotties but the opponents records are not anything to be proud of.  any word on how long beardo is gonna be out?  does singleton look like a player?  and how is cook adjusting to college bball?  Did terwelp bulk up or has he just realized how good he really is?  and last thing is, when is the aluminum fish game this year? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 28, 2005, 02:35:42 pm
Granted, the competition from last weekend wasn't what the Scots will see from Ripon, Beloit and Aurora in the next few days.

Beaird will be back for Wednesday's game. Dibble did OK in his place (10.0 ppg). Singleton seems OK now, and I think he'll be even better in the 2006 portion of the schedule. From what I can tell, he's just as accurate as Beaird and Dibble from distance, and he ranks between the two in his ability to create his own shot. If Cook makes the type of progress you'd expect, he will be a very nice player down the road.

Terwelp showed me three things I hadn't seen. Some very nice post moves, some creative finishes and the ability to hit the trey.

Nice to know the Scots can win without Beaird. Here's hoping they can win two this weekend with him.

And here's hoping we can win the Fish game (whenever it's played) without Old Fighting Scot. Maybe our new academic dean will have game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on November 28, 2005, 04:07:53 pm
"For Oshkosh, it was a painful lesson that life in college basketball's penthouse is strictly rental property.
I just don't understand this comment...  How is "college basketball's penthouse" rental property?  This statement says to me that TVD doesn't think that his team deserves to be where they are ranked (and I've read comments by him earlier that affirm this feeling BEFORE the Lawrence game).  I happen to agree with him.  Oshkosh really hasn't proved anything.  They are an 8 loss team from last year who took 3rd in their league
Quote
"Our guys really haven't adjusted to a team that's going to be chased," said Titans coach Ted Van Dellen. "That's a different attitude. Like I said, this is their Super Bowl right here. You get all those accolades at the beginning of the year and you've got to learn to handle it and we just didn't.
How is this Lawrence's Super Bowl?  Like cubs said earlier, Lawrence would be 3-0 in the "Super Bowl"... but something really makes me think that, at most, this is a rivalry game between two schools in close proximity.  I really doubt that, for a team that made the NCAA tourney the last two seasons, their first regular season game would be the defining game of the year. 

College basketball is an endurence event.  The season is 25 games long, from mid October until March. 
Quote
"No loss is a good loss but I'll tell you what, I think this was an eye opener for these fellas. They get all that crap early on and you think you're a little bit better than what you are and all of a sudden Ö"
That's probably the first thing that TVD said that I agree with.
Quote
""That's a different attitude. Like I said, this is their Super Bowl right here."
I guess that makes Lawrence 3-0 in Super Bowl's over the past three seasons right coach?  Perhaps you should actually win something first, then begin making comments like this.
Let me play devil's advocate here for a second....
anytime you play the #2 team in the country, it is going to have a "Super Bowl" type feel to it. 
This statement has a bit of credence... UWSP dealt with it for the last however many seasons they were highly ranked.  Teams want to knock off the team on the top of the heap, so they give their best effort.  That said, I think Lawrence was better than advertised and Oshkosh was overrated.  Of course, past trends can many times be a good barometer for what will happen in the future, so I think at best, the game would be even, with no real favorite.
Quote
(I would assume if you asked Tharp or TVD, the previous two meetings weren't "Super Bowls" for Lawrence or UWO because both of them knew they had to go through UWSP.) 
The Lawrence/UWO games had just as much riding on them as this one... they were non-conference games, early in the year.  I doubt that either team was thinking about Point when they played.
Quote
This was probably the first time in three meetings where UWO was the "favorite" to win, regardless of the difference in strength of respective conferences.
Read what I wrote above about who was the favorite... I, personally, thought Lawrence was going to win, and they did.
Quote
As far as the "why don't you win something first" statement, TVD and UWO have been able to do something 4 out of 5 seasons that neither Lawrence or any other MWC team has been able to do and that is beat UWSP.
I think that the "beating UWSP" idea works for the 2001-2002 and 2002-2003 seasons, because Oshkosh won games that allowed them to go on to the NCAA's.  But for the last two seasons, Point has won the "one that counted."  In fact, they've beaten Oshkosh 6 of the last 7 times, including 4 times two seasons ago, and in two WIAC tournament semi-finals.
Quote
  And the last time I checked, UWO made it just as deep in the 2003 NCAA Tournament as Lawrence has ever made it (2004) so I guess both coaches still need "to win something first."
Oshkosh's depth into the NCAA's really have no bearing on this past UWO/LU match-up.  None of the players from those 2001 and 2002 teams are on Oshkosh's roster.  However, Lawrence DOES return players from last year (and the year before)'s NCAA team
Quote
"As far as the "why don't you win something first" statement, TVD and UWO have been able to do something 4 out of 5 seasons that neither Lawrence or any other MWC team has been able to do and that is beat UWSP"

But, using your logic and that of the UW 0 coach the wins over UWSP are somehow diminished since it could be viewed as UW 0's "Super Bowl" right?
Let's drop this whole "Super Bowl" idea.  UWO's wins in the 01-02 and 02-03 seasons were important in that they allowed UWO to make it to continue to play, to make some noise on the national scene.  But the win last year?  All that game did was allow Platteville to grab a share of the reg season conference title.  That win didn't change their seeding in the conference tournament.  It, perhaps, helped their confidence, but I'm not so sure of that... They won the first round of the conference tournament in overtime against an underachieving Eau Claire team, then lost to Stevens Point in the semi's.  Then, they dropped the first game of the year to Lawrence.  That doesn't seem like these past experiences had that much to do with what would happen this season.  If anything, like TVD said, it gave them a puffed-up impression of themself... a false confidence, making them think they were better than they really are.
Quote
For the third straight year, Lawrence beat UW 0.  For their coach to in any way imply that somehow the game meant more to LU than it did to his club is
1)  An indictment of his ability to prepare his team
2) A fairly classless comment
By the end of the year, UW 0 may well be the best team in D3 basketball.  They certainly enjoy huge advantages over a school like LU in obtaining players.  LU beating them three times in a row is a great accomplishment for Tharp and his kids no matter what spin the UW 0 coach puts on it. 
I'm not sure that you really can make that much of an argument that UWO has "huge advantages" over Lawrence in obtaining players... they may have had more SUCCESS at obtaining players, but...
Basically, the whole idea of this being anything other than a regular season non-conference game, by rivals or otherwise, is just blowing in the wind.  The games that have a lot riding on them (for something OTHER than bragging rights, bragging rights which really amount to nothing) on tournament games, either Conference Tourney, or NCAA Tourney.  And for both these teams, the game with all the marbles have been, for the last two years, their games with top ranked UWSP.  Oshkosh has lost 6 out of 7 from the Pointers, including two tourney games.  Lawrence lost by 1 in OT and by 34, in two tourney games.  THESE games are the "Super Bowls" you guys are looking for.  Both of these programs are good programs with good players and good coaches.  They have had success in the recent past in the NCAA tournament and both are arguably top 15 programs in the country (over the past few years and this year included).  The only weight that regular seasons have on these teams, apart from the apparent, false weight of a rivalry game, is the weight of a loss, especially a loss to a regional opponent (and this past game is counted as a regional game) because a loss like this could prevent them from getting a bid to the NCAA's, should they not recieve their conference's automatic bid.  That's it.

Whew... lots happened while I was gone for Thanksgiving!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 28, 2005, 05:06:11 pm
No matter where you stand on the whole UWO/Lawrence postgame-comment contretemps, the bottom line is that it can only help what is shaping up to be a nice neighborhood rivalry in the Fox Cities.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 28, 2005, 05:26:27 pm
"I'm not sure that you really can make that much of an argument that UWO has "huge advantages" over Lawrence in obtaining players."

Ok, I'll try:

1)  MWC coaches are prohibited from recruiting off campus, a huge disadvantage when they cannot even speak to a player in high school after they watch him play, visit him at school or home, etc.

2)  Admission Criteria - It is simply harder to get in to Lawrence than it is to Oshkosh.  That is not a judgement of right or wrong, good or bad, simply a fact.  one of Oshkosh's top basketball players of all time decided not to attend UW Madison because he would not have been able to play his freshman year due to prop 48.  An all conference football payer this year for Oshkosh arrived as a transfer after failing out at Madison.  This is not a bad thing, each school severs a great purpose and does a great job of educating students but it is harder to get a student (and basketball player admitted to LU than Oshkosh)

3)  Cost - Lawrence costs for 2006 are listed at $35,758, Oshkosh at $14,062.  While Lawrence offers excellent financial aid options, it is still much less expensive for the average student to go to Oshkosh or another state university.  Since scholarships can not be given for athletics, this has to be viewed as an advantage in recruiting.

Thats three, public VS private financing of the programs, available majors, size of the institutions could also be used.  

This takes nothing away from the WIAC schools and what they have accomplished but for Lawrence to be able to compete for the past few years at the level of the highest programs of the best conference in the country is a great story.    
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 28, 2005, 05:30:07 pm
I know an MWC coach can't sit around the kitchen table with a recruit and his family, but are you sure they can't talk to a recruit after a recruit's game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on November 28, 2005, 05:44:42 pm
Not saying they can't nod in the kids direction or "happen" to end up sitting near the parents but they are not suppose to visit with a kid even after a game.  Off campus recruiting is not allowed which was one of the major factors in Coe and Cornell leaving.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 28, 2005, 08:40:06 pm
D-stan,

There may have been some slight modifications to that particular rule by the MWC in the past year or so.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 28, 2005, 08:44:23 pm
happy as a virgin in church

Sound like me  :D and I like jeff p... :D Now it's in the same sentance twice!  :D :D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 28, 2005, 08:50:09 pm
I'm in the geologic testing field, I do soils testing etc.  

Hehe! If I had gone to Lawrence, I might have been your TA! Woo Geology!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2005, 12:11:21 am
Point Special,

Thanks for the clarifications and I'm glad to see I had most of it right. Next time I'll specify "regular season non-conference losses" instead of just thinking it.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2005, 04:04:16 am
Lawrence makes it to 15th in the poll.  I think some of it has to do with beating  Oshkosh and a lot of it has to do with 7 teams dropping in the poll, but staying and another three dropping out all together.

I remember that I said I didn't think Larry U would jump into the teens, but I think I also had a qualifier that a lot of other teams needed to drop games and that has happened.  I was surprised a little that Lawrence didn't make the top 25 to begin with, so now Pat and his pollsters have made the Larry U faithful happy, at least for this week!  ;)  Had Pat waited another day, Carroll might have gotten some more votes after knocking off Whitewater, and I doubt we'd see Whitewater in the Top-25, joining Platteville on the outside looking in...that WIAC is so overrated! lol. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2005, 04:11:20 am
For the record:

Lawrence over Oshkosh (at Lawrence)
Point over Ripon (at Ripon)
La Crosse over Ripon (at Ripon)
Carroll over Whitewater (at Carroll)

Schedule:

Oshkosh at St. Norbert
Oshkosh at Carroll
St. Norbert at Stout

Did I miss any?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 29, 2005, 04:42:43 am
Old School,

You missed one. I'd like to know why Puget Sound is so highly regarded in the rankings??? They are a Pool B team, at best, disguised as a Pool A because of where they are located.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 29, 2005, 09:30:02 am
For my 500th post, I want to congratulate Lawrence on their jump in the Polls.  That Pat Coleman sure knows his stuff!   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 29, 2005, 12:01:13 pm
isnt the only thing that matters is that our best teams beat your best teams.  if the bottom feeders of a conference, ie ripon and maybe ic this year, lose to good opponents from a good conference so what.  I think CC may only be the third or fourth best team in the MWC this year (i seriously do believe that the two west central illinois teams are very talented, coaching will be the key there) and they beat a top two team in a top conference.  that says something.  ripon losing does not.... :-\
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on November 29, 2005, 12:08:17 pm
Don't forget to get your pick em picks in before Friday night.....

Only four of us are in so far....we need more then that..

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 29, 2005, 12:51:55 pm
Old School,

You missed one. I'd like to know why Puget Sound is so highly regarded in the rankings??? They are a Pool B team, at best, disguised as a Pool A because of where they are located.

What one did I miss.  And what does PS have to do with anything?  Are you complaining because they are ranked ahead of Larry U now?

isnt the only thing that matters is that our best teams beat your best teams. if the bottom feeders of a conference, ie ripon and maybe ic this year, lose to good opponents from a good conference so what. I think CC may only be the third or fourth best team in the MWC this year (i seriously do believe that the two west central illinois teams are very talented, coaching will be the key there) and they beat a top two team in a top conference. that says something. ripon losing does not.... :-\

Nice kop out OFS.  And no, best teams beating best teams isn't the only thing that matters.  Give me a break.  I didn't know Ripon was considered a bottom feeder in the MWC now.  Last time I checked, they've been a good team in recent history and they are picked 3rd in the MWC this year.  Meanwhile, La Crosse has been a bad team for a long time in the WIAC and they are picked 6th this year.  So, when the WIACs 6th place traditionally bad team goes into Ripon, the MWCs 3rd place traditionally good team and wins, that should count in your book.  I wasn't awared that we have to qualify wins and losses now.  Point is picked 3rd this year and lost 4 senior starters.  Carroll is picked 2nd by the SIDs for your information.  Nice try in sandbagging them and making your 3rd or 4th place team's win over Whitewater look better. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 29, 2005, 04:10:33 pm
For my 500th post, I want to congratulate Lawrence on their jump in the Polls.  That Pat Coleman sure knows his stuff!   ;D


 :D

Scottie, I am trying to raise your karma here... but it keeps getting knocked... what are you saying on the football board???  :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 29, 2005, 05:12:19 pm
I'm OFF the football board, DHF...help me!   :'(  I think my joking reference to the Coleman Mafia knocked me down a couple of pegs.  Oops, I just did it again! :)
"Going for positive Karma in 2006!"
[/color]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on November 29, 2005, 08:30:04 pm
I'm OFF the football board, DHF...help me!   :'(  I think my joking reference to the Coleman Mafia knocked me down a couple of pegs.  Oops, I just did it again! :)
"Going for positive Karma in 2006!"
[/color]

HaHa! :D  Scottie - If I could help you with your karma, I would.  I guess that I still have to get a few more posts until that's possible!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 29, 2005, 08:37:26 pm
I'll take you up on that Maverick.  If you go to the games at Glennie Gym this weekend, I'll look forward to your recap.

"Dominating the pick 'em league in 2006!"   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2005, 12:09:29 am
I'm doing a little investigation in order to arrive at a conclussion. Please review the following information and help me with this (exact posting dates have been ommitted)

Grinnellfan68: JeffP, do you have waffles at Saints Rest?
JeffP: No

Grinnellfan68: JeffP, do you have waffles at Saints Rest?
JeffP: No

Grinnellfan68: JeffP, do you have waffles at Saints Rest?
JeffP: No

Grinnellfan68: JeffP, do you have waffles at Saints Rest?
JeffP: No

Grinnellfan68: JeffP, do you have waffles at Saints Rest?
JeffP: No

At the moment nothing is conclusive so the possibilities must be 1. Saints Rest does not have waffles at any time or 2. Saints Rest does not have them for Grinnellfan68.

Maybe we should all ask JeffP individually if Saints Rest has waffles ???

"How about friggin leggo my eggo"†
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 30, 2005, 08:25:36 am
GC tops Mt. Mercy 140-120. I'll leave the play-by-play to jeffp, but the good sign (for the Pioneers) is the 48% shooting from outside the arc. Another nice game from Grotberg and Trek Langenhan shooting 8 for 12 from 3pt is a nice surprise.

This team looks like it's going to score some points this year. There is usually a little dropoff in scoring once the conference season starts, but they've been over 130 in all three non-conference games, so come ready to run and gun.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on November 30, 2005, 09:52:11 am
I'll leave the real analysis to JeffP (if he posts - he's mighty quiet these days!), but a few comments:

- the referees were oafs. Missed calls, wrong calls, boneheaded calls. They defined oafs. The good news? They're just as bad as they were last year. Lucky GC!
- excellent blocks and steals by Ticus, Nordland, Chamberlain
- Trek slammed 'em from both corners
- Grotberg - well, the kid made some incredible shots and was wonderful to watch moving down the court
- Bobby Long did nice defensive and offensive work; could've done even more if he'd gotten a few more passes

Looking forward to Friday.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on November 30, 2005, 10:22:17 am
isnt the only thing that matters is that our best teams beat your best teams.  if the bottom feeders of a conference, ie ripon and maybe ic this year, lose to good opponents from a good conference so what.  I think CC may only be the third or fourth best team in the MWC this year (i seriously do believe that the two west central illinois teams are very talented, coaching will be the key there) and they beat a top two team in a top conference.  that says something.  ripon losing does not.... :-\

Ripon is a bottom feeder?  OFS, When is the last time the scotts had a NCAA bid?  When is the scotts last conference championship?  Or the last time they were even in the race, or the last time they MADE the conference tourny?  You CANNOT put Ripon in a bottom feeder category without including your own fighting scotts.  If Ripon is a bottom feeder, what would you call your lowly scotts?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 30, 2005, 10:43:21 am
Very encouraging game at GC last night against basically the same Mt Mercy team that smoked 'em twice last year. They are still ragged at times, but it hasn't mattered too much so far. Some thoughts;

You finally get a handle on how fast a team is when just about the slowest guy out there is your best new ball distributer and one of your best points ever. Slow is definitely relative.

Trek has a breakout game. Look out, folks.

When the defense concentrates on the one that burned ya' last year, 3 others are there to take up the slack

Dr Chamberlain is gonna be one fine MWC player

Nordland played his most complete game of the year.

Grotberg, Jr, Long, Idrissa, Guzman, Roewe all have very, very positive contributions and show why they compliment the system style of play.

Ticus has his best game as a Pioneer.

Total team effort. 'Attitude' is the best new player on the team.

This group will only get better.

I will start talking more after we have played a few MWC games...whether you want me to or not.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 30, 2005, 10:50:08 am

So I guess this weekend will be a big one for judging GC's level of play.  I can't believe I'm not going to be there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 30, 2005, 10:57:32 am
Ok, I've been called out in a personal Email from Mr. "the Roop" for not giving him the opportunity to trash talk on this board about our side bet for this Friday's game against Beloit.
Mr. "The Roop" is gonna look great standing at center court after the game wearing a GC shirt that is 2 sizes too small.

"just get whatever size fits you as I won't be needing one" indeed.

The race is on!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 30, 2005, 11:32:10 am
Ripon Has been very good, and if you guys from the NORTH cant see past "the past" and live in the now i cant help you (see the football board).  im sorry but it seems awfully obvious that Ripon is not as good as they have been (somebody please look at what they have done this year before you jump on the ripon is god bandwagon).  Picked third you say..... umm so what.  :-\ do you think any coaches would be picking them third today?  hell no.  CC on the other hand is a good team, i am giving testament to how good MC and KC will be this year not necessarily bashing CC.  their win was a very good one. 

Ripon comes to MC this weekend, if MC doesnt win by double digits i will be surprised.  Last time CC came to MC they lost and at one point were down by 20.  And last time even mighty Larry U (#10 in the nation at the time) came to MC they left unhappy.  The scots havent been great but "lowly" is reserved for bad teams not teams that go 10-1 at home and only missed the MWC tourney b/c larry u didnt beat CC in the last game of the year.  MC lost all-conference travis miller, but gained a very good big man (that i believe can be as dominant as braier) that sat out last year with injuries.  and gained yet another shooter.  Dont be surprised if MC battles LU for the top of the MC.....

MC BBALL in 06
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 30, 2005, 12:48:00 pm
The scots havent been great but "lowly" is reserved for bad teams not teams that go 10-1 at home and only missed the MWC tourney b/c larry u didnt beat CC in the last game of the year.†

Bad teams blame other teams for not getting into tourneys. 2-9 on the road doesn't help either.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2005, 01:03:38 pm
JeffP,

Instead of telling me what you did in the private message, I meant that you should have posted it on the board. YOU wasted the trash talking opportunity for yourself. I don't recall any center court provisions being added to the wager but the shirt I'm bringing should fit well enough that you won't look bad when you're out there in it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on November 30, 2005, 01:10:18 pm
Scotties, Larry, Gary, and Ripon in the playoffs for the title
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 30, 2005, 02:06:40 pm
Fighting Scots:

Say what you think of the SLOW start to Ripon's season, but calling them bottom feeders before any conference game has been played sounds stupid...it makes you sound stupid.  It discredits anything you have to say.  As I have said before, Ripon has NO seniors in the starting lineup and have to figure out their identity after losing Becker (which has been a lot harder then I expected).  On the flip side, they do have a top returning scorer and two other double digit starters back.  It might take them a while to get used to playing together and it might take a while for an established leader to step up in more ways then just scoring. 

"Ripon comes to MC this weekend, if MC doesnt win by double digits i will be surprised." 

Ripon has lost at the buzzer by two suspect calls the last two years.  The game has literally ended with two monmoth players shooting freethrows with no time and no one else at the line.  Ripon will compete and continue to get its motion offense smoother and its defense responsibilities better.  They might lose this weekend because as you noted, monmouth was 10-1 at home and seems to play well only there...weird...I'm not saying anything but you know what I'm saying :) win a game on the road and then come talk to me about how Monmouth has now become an upper class power in our conference.  Fortunately for Ripon, your first 4 games don't determine whether you play in the conference tourney...they still have Gillie there you know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 30, 2005, 02:15:33 pm
The Roop-
so, how do they spell your college favorite on the shirt you are bringing?
G-R-I-N-N-E-L-L? That I will look good in. Any others I won't have to worry about wearing. I hope you are a good 'loser'. That is spelled B-E-L-O-I-T. :D ;D :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on November 30, 2005, 02:27:54 pm
jeffp...who is this Attitude guy...not listed on the team roster...also, please order some waffles special for saturday morning...be a sport.

my daughter is pregnant with my first grand child. I'm as happy as a school boy. Boy those were the days...catching lightning bugs with Cleo on the grassy fields just before night fall.

sorry about my nostalgia...anyway...I'll be in Grinnell for the weekend to see Grinnell wipe the floor with those Beloit Bucs...Hinz won't be able to catch up...hahahahahaha.

:o :o :o :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on November 30, 2005, 02:33:34 pm
GF68-
Is being 'happy as a schoolboy' the same as being happy as 'a virgin in church'?

If you can't find something to eat here, you better bring your own, because we ain't gonna serve/get no stinkin' waffles...good sport or otherwise. ;D

See you this weekend!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on November 30, 2005, 02:39:58 pm
I get the trash talking with "The Roop" - he invites abuse, it would be impolite not to give it to him - but I'm not sure I'm ready to start trash talking with a team where the top two leading scorers are a freshman and a sophomore.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited, and I think we'll have reason to boast during the year. I'd just prefer to go into the conference season very quietly.  ;D

BTW, jeffp, is the play-by-play for the MtM game correct? It looks like all but 5 or 6 of the MtM shots were layups. I know the System gives up a bunch of layups, but that seemed like A LOT.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on November 30, 2005, 02:50:31 pm
MWC4life,

i originally wrote a post that vented about how i believe MC regularly received unfair treatment from officials in wisconsin and especially at ripon.  but i erased it thinkin that maybe this message board is not the best place to be rehashing this event.  anyone at MC or around the program at that time will know exactly what i am talking about.  what took place was ridiculously shady and i will just leave it at that.

MC plays well at home, b/c we get decent fan support and our strength has been our shooters.  any basketball player will say that they shoot better in comfortable surroundings, your home gym being one of those.  it definitely has nothing to do with the refs, TG gets as many T's at home as he does on the road ;D

you are off base on most of your statements, but i will take back the ripon = bottom feeder statement.  ripon will not be a bottom feeder in this conference b/c gillespie knows what he is doing, but ripon will not be a top 4 team this year, that is the point i am/was trying to get across.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 30, 2005, 03:04:01 pm
mwc4life makes some nice points, although "literally ended ... with no time and no one else on the line" isn't accurate. In both cases, the Red Hawks had one second left, and in both cases, the MC player who made the free throws (Dibble and Miller) batted away the inbounds pass.

But you're right, Monmouth has to win on the road to make a statement. And that statement is a ways off from being made because the Scots don't play an MWC game away from Glennie until Jan. 7. By late January, they will have only played three MWC road games. If the Scots are going to make a statement, it might not come until late in the year.

OFS -- hope you're right about the double-digit win. This SEEMS like a good time to catch Ripon ... we'll see (also should be a good time to catch Beloit after playing at Grinnell the night before).

(Technically, Ripon and Lake Forest are the current MWC "bottom feeders" but that won't last ... Ripon COULD get off to an 0-3 league start, though).

If the new big man can play like Braier, I'd guarantee that the Scots will battle Lawrence for the title. He's not there yet, though.

The Scots are solid, though, and the bench combo of Dibble, Blaser, Moore and Singleton, plus a few freshmen, is a strong one to supplement a solid top five.

This should be a fun weekend at Glennie. Judging by their recent home success, the Scots will be favored to go 2-0, and I'd take 'em anyway we can get them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on November 30, 2005, 04:26:24 pm
Fighting Scots-

I wasn't venting about any officiating...just noted how strange it was that both road games the last two years have ended on a refs call...all of which weren't very obvious...i would know (PS Schwanman, two years ago there was no time on the clock cause he shot FT's by himself.  Second game was tied and after the foul call there was less then a second left and hardly a shot at making a basket).

It's funny, you haven't seen them play yet and even if you did, it's WAAAAAYYYY too early to judge a team that has consistantly competed for 20 years!!! I'm not saying Ripon has competed every 5 years, lose 10 games, win another 3 years and then lose 13 games.  They consistantly finish at or over .500 for a long long time.  For whatever reason they aren't playing well together right now, but there is plenty of time to change that.  I have no doubt that Monmouth will be a better team then they have been in the last 5 years...especially since Terry is such a fine coach (one of my favorites in the league). We will see how it goes this weekend and be sure to get back to me win/lose and let me know what you think....remember double digits or more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 30, 2005, 05:04:18 pm
Just to clarify, I'm not judging Ripon as a weak team. Just saying this might be a good time during the season to catch them. The accounts I'm reading is that they aren't in sync yet. And the 0-3 league start observation IS a possibility .. they're on the road at Grinnell, Monmouth and Lawrence for their first three.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the game two years ago. I was there, and I clearly remember Dibble knocking away Ripon's last-ditch inbounds pass. The box score shows it as well. It's a minor point, though.

I'll be sure to post following the Monmouth-Ripon game on Friday. By no means am I expecting a double-digit outcome. I'm just expecting a pretty darn good MWC opener.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on November 30, 2005, 05:18:05 pm
mwc4life - I'm not ready to predict any finishes at this point in the season, either.  My former experiences w/ RU tell me not to rule them out.  

I think I'll have a better opinion of the Scots in another week after they've played two conf. games sandwiched between two non-conf. games, one tonight and one next Wed.  The competition will be much better and we'll see how MC's newcomers handle the pressure of MWC games.

IF, IF, IF RU has a sub-par season, what would RU posters say is the reason?  It seems as if the team has a nice pg in McMullen, Johnson can score inside/outside and they have a true big man in Schmitting.  Are the role players not fulfilling their role as they have in the past?  Just curious...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on November 30, 2005, 05:27:42 pm
I should've clarified my early statement to read something like, "because of RU's slow start, what would RU posters say is the reason?" 

...And, since the Scots are playing BU this wkend, too, has it been posted that Hinz hasn't been their leading scorer yet?  Last year he was their leading scorer in about 1/2 their games.  Obviously he can do that again this year since it's early, but thought that was a little odd...any reason why?  BU posters??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on November 30, 2005, 05:47:45 pm
Ok, I've been called out in a personal Email from Mr. "the Roop" for not giving him the opportunity to trash talk on this board about our side bet for this Friday's game against Beloit.
Mr. "The Roop" is gonna look great standing at center court after the game wearing a GC shirt that is 2 sizes too small.

"just get whatever size fits you as I won't be needing one" indeed.

The race is on!



I don't know... a tee shirt bet just isn't as fun as a cookie, scone, and kimchi and spam bet.  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on November 30, 2005, 09:10:40 pm
DHF,

The bet has been modified. Originally I had called for Jeff to drink Folgers Crystals after the game.

Grinnellfan68,

True, Hinz might not be able to catch up, but that's because he is one of the slower players on the roster this year.

AM,

Glad to see one of the Pioneer faithful is talking sensibly. But then again you have always been NRO compliant so I'm not surprised.

JeffP,

Hope you won't mind a previously worn Beloit shirt. I thought about getting a new one but new ones just don't absorb the tears that well until they've been washed a few times.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 30, 2005, 09:56:47 pm
Any word from Glennie Gym?  The Scots are going up against the MacMurray "System" tonight...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on November 30, 2005, 10:34:15 pm
Monmouth 89, MacMurray 83

The Scots were up 15 at one point but allowed the Highlanders to tie the game at 80-80. Hebeler and Dibble came up big at the end, combining for the final nine points.

The Scots, uncharacteristically in their home gym, didn't shoot well from beyond the arc (9-of-32) or at the line (18-of-32).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on November 30, 2005, 10:37:19 pm
I'll take you up on that Maverick.  If you go to the games at Glennie Gym this weekend, I'll look forward to your recap.

"Dominating the pick 'em league in 2006!"   ;D

Scottie - I may make it over to the Ripon game on Friday night, but probably won't be there for Beloit on Saturday afternoon--have a previous commitment.  I might put a recap on here after the Ripon game or could just post the score and leave the recapping to SchwanMan or FightingScots13! :D

And I was in the middle of typing up the Scots score that I found on the MC website, but SchwanMan beat me to it!  Anyhow, congrats to the Scots on holding onto the win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on November 30, 2005, 10:44:16 pm
Way to go Scots!

I hope you all are watching the Indiana/Duke game right now.  I could care less about both of these teams, but that Killingsworth is DA MAN.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2005, 04:24:10 am
"Grand Roopening" special instructions are now posted on the blog  

Crying towels have already sold-out to the Grinnell Fans

TV, or not TV........... Buccaneers still win as I see
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 01, 2005, 08:24:23 am
AM-
by its nature 'trash talk' should be limited to idiots who don't understand the game. Who better to fill that role than Mr 'The Roop' and jeffp, and what better time than before the first conference game when both teams are relatively unknown entities?
Make no mistake though, I think at this point in the season both these teams have an equal chance along with every other team in the conference to win the  conference and the conference tourney. :o

DHF-
all ya gotta do is line up the match and the real bet is on.

Mr. 'The Roop'-
Crying towels and pre-worn shirts to absorb the tears? You plan on wailing so much that every GC fan has to use the towels to clean up after you?
And you sure can use that pre worn shirt shoulder to cry on-it will just be in your lap. ;D

MC fans- nice 'w' against Mac Murray. Remember everything they do when you play GC and you may be in for a shock. ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 01, 2005, 09:21:23 am
mwc4life - I'm not ready to predict any finishes at this point in the season, either.  My former experiences w/ RU tell me not to rule them out.  

I think I'll have a better opinion of the Scots in another week after they've played two conf. games sandwiched between two non-conf. games, one tonight and one next Wed.  The competition will be much better and we'll see how MC's newcomers handle the pressure of MWC games.

IF, IF, IF RU has a sub-par season, what would RU posters say is the reason?  It seems as if the team has a nice pg in McMullen, Johnson can score inside/outside and they have a true big man in Schmitting.  Are the role players not fulfilling their role as they have in the past?  Just curious...

fighingscots13,
You are obviously a smart bball guy.  Some very intelligent comments (and I'm definitely not trying to say all of my comments are intelligent, just stating a point)  If ripon has a sub-par season and doesn't make the conference tourny I would chalk it up to the same reason I think they have struggled thus far.....no seniors, so young, difficulty flowing in motion.  Gillespie's offense is dependent on teamwork and A LOT of communication.
And we will wait and see about Friday.  I won't be in attendance, but I am hoping for a good game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 01, 2005, 10:19:23 am
JeffP - I think that a game vs. the (other) system was the last thing TG wanted right before a tough weekend homestand against Ripon and Beloit.  But at least it gives the new players "some" idea of what the Grinnies will bring. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 01:23:27 pm
Schwanman~

32 three point attempts!!! Seems kind of high for a team with a 15 point lead at one point and a true big man (from what I'm hearing).  I know Monmouth normally shoots real well at home. From what i remember the new gym has an extremly forgiving Rim (near the entrance of the gym) and the basketballs seem, while they bounce OK, are very soft( making for better bounces). And 32 FT's, man they must have been attacking the Rim and just shooting 3's!!  Ripon could easily start 0-3 on the year, but still be OK with their first three being road games.  I know Ripon doesn't play particularly well on these back to back road trips, but if they could some how start 2-1 on the year, all on the road, they would set themselves up nicely to finish in the top 4.

Fighting Scots~

While i agree with Mr. Early (teacher) that Ripon's failure this year has some to do with lack of leadership or Seniors on the team, but there is still no excuse to lose two games in a row at home or to lose a game against Marian.  Ripon does have 4 juniors starting so its not like these guys have never played together, but Early is right in that they need to develop chemistry, trust etc.  especially in an offense as hard to run as motion.  And to put it in even simpler terms, the Ripon guys just need to play harder and smarter.  They have to want to be the best....i know one thing, if Ripon's team played like LU's they'd be just as good if not better...but that's a big if.

129 days until Briar and LU are no longer!! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 01, 2005, 02:33:15 pm
hey fightingscots13-

any word on the alumni game this year??  Any positions at the school me?

OFS-

you coming back for that?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 01, 2005, 02:46:05 pm
All this talk of the Scots got me to look at their website. From the write up of the team, I read the following from the coach:

ďAnthonyís the best shooter in the league,Ē said Glasgow. ďPeople know that, but what they donít realize is that he has great instincts for the game, whether itís how to come off a screen or where to find an open spot on the floor."

Beaird is a fine player. Honorable mention All Conference last year. But best shooter? A bit of hyperbole from the coach perhaps? Anyone want to refute or support that claim? I don't see numbers that back that statement up. I'll even allow that he might be "one of the best", but let's qualify our statements please.

Let the debate begin...who IS the best shooter in the league?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 01, 2005, 03:07:17 pm
I think what the coach meant is that he's the best three-point shooter in the league (whether that's true or not, I don't know). At a school known for its shooters, Beaird broke the career three-point record his junior year. He's had several games, not just against Grinnell, where's he's made seven or eight threes. That's killer, and I think that's what the coach was getting at.

He's off to a slow start this year ... here's hoping he finds the range this weekend.

Those clean-shaven Scots
Have still been winning their games
Playing without Beaird
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 01, 2005, 03:29:30 pm
I think what the coach meant is that he's the best three-point shooter in the league (whether that's true or not, I don't know). At a school known for its shooters, Beaird broke the career three-point record his junior year. He's had several games, not just against Grinnell, where's he's made seven or eight threes. That's killer, and I think that's what the coach was getting at.

Fair enough. Like I said, he belongs in the conversation. I'm just trying to stir things up a little. I don't see enough games first hand to say yes or no.

From the numbers, Beaird might be the best returning 3pt shooter, but Schmidt of GC (who was only a freshman last year) had almost equal numbers last year in the 3pt categories. Add to that the possibility that Schmidt might not even be the best 3pt shooter for GC this year, and the debate gets pretty good.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 03:48:52 pm
Well, with a lot of talented shooters graduating last year (Becker, Kelly, Hollenbeck etc.) there's always going to be an emergence of some great shooter.  I would have to say that its easily Bo Johnson coming off an 18 pts/gm and hitting a ton of three's last year.  Now i know you guys think im just saying that, but the guy has the resume to prove it:

9 3's - @ Knox last year
7 or 8 3's - Neutral vs. Hanover
7/12 3's - This year vs. Point @ Ripon


He's had other really good shooting days like when Ripon beat a then top ranked LU team at home and others that i don't intend on figuring out. But the point was that they were in games that mattered.  The guy can hit shots anywhere on the floor: midrange, posting up, off down screens, curls, spot-up, fades, and flares.  He can hit every type of shot.  He can be streaky so there is room for debate, but as far as when he's on, no one is close.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 03:51:48 pm
when everytime a kid has an open look the other coach/team says "damn" that is the sign of a good shooter, a la JJ Redick, reggie miller, all short white guys at the major college or NBA levels  ;D.  Beiardo is probably the best pure shooter in the MWC.  if you leave him open, he'll kill you, and everyone in the MWC knows it.  

you guys have to remember that there is a big difference between shooters and scorers.  You can still be a great shooter when you are 50 and overweight, but great scoring generally stops at about the time you start caring about what you eat and how much you drink.......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 03:54:51 pm
9 3's - @ Knox last year
7 or 8 3's - Neutral vs. Hanover
7/12 3's - This year vs. Point @ Ripon
  The guy can hit shots anywhere on the floor: midrange, posting up, off down screens, curls, spot-up, fades, and flares.  He can hit every type of shot.  He can be streaky so there is room for debate, but as far as when he's on, no one is close.

this sounds like a great "SCORER!" not shooter.  Please understand that there is a difference......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 01, 2005, 03:59:41 pm
Beaird being the best shooter in the league can be debated all year.  But, he's been a 40% shooter from 3 the last two years, was 2nd in the league in attempts last year (and with GC in your league, that's putting up quite a few) and led the league in 3's made.  Sooo, that's one argument.

Plus, you won't find Beaird mixing it up in the paint too often.  After 3 years, I think most MWC coaches know he's going to be outside the arc.  Does that make him one-dimensional?  Maybe, but IF coaches think that, then I think that makes his shooting that much better, because players haven't been able to stop him from scoring yet.

Lastly, while he hasn't been the leader in %age in the league, that doesn't automatically mean he's not the best shooter.  An example that comes to mind that's been debated the last few years is with JJ Reddick.  His percentage isn't always the greatest because he's sometimes forced to take bad shots when the shotclock is running down.  But when he gets an opportunity within their offense, he's as deadly as they come.  Whether you like him or not, I think most people would take him on their team than be against him.  

Now, don't run with this and think I'm comparing Beaird with Reddick - just an example.

I'd be interested to know who everyone thinks is the best shooter in the league, or for that matter, the best scorer.  For the Scots, Beaird is our unquestioned best shooter.  I don't know if we have a pure scorer, but if we need a bucket at the end of the game and someone going one on one, I'd say we'd be turning to Hebeler.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 01, 2005, 04:00:26 pm
You guys beat me to it...Great minds think alike....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 01, 2005, 04:09:56 pm
Snydz...no word on the alumni game...I'm thinking this year we should just tailgate before the Knox game and fill ourselves full of beer and brats - all that sweating and running up and down just doesn't sound appealing anymore.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 04:21:10 pm
Maclin at knox is a great scorer, becker last year was a great scorer, the kid from Ic last year was a scorer, scuba steve at gc was a scorer

i wouldnt say any of them were "great" shooters.......

just my opinion
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 04:29:44 pm
What's wrong with you guys.  Now all of a sudden if you average a bunch of points, but make a ton of 3's at a high pecentage you aren't a great shooter...just a great scorer???? You guys are nuts!!! Becker led the league in three point shooting!

Here's some stats for ya:
 
3-POINT FG PCT (Min. 1.0 made per game)
## Player-Team               Cl  G   3FG   FGA   Pct
----------------------------------------------------
 1.Tommy Becker-RC..........    25    37    82  .451
 2.Josh Clark-IC............ SR 22    38    85  .447
 3.Jason Maclin-KC.......... SO 23    53   127  .417
 4.Danny Towns-BC........... JR 21    26    63  .413
 5.Eric DeJardine-SNC....... SR 23    41   100  .410
 6.Bo Johnson-RC............    25    62   153  .405
 7.Greg Klos-LFC............ JR 24    72   180  .400
   Dodd Browning-LFC........ JR 23    30    75  .400
 9.Aaron Faulkner-SNC....... SR 23    40   102  .392
10.Anthony Beaird-MC........ JR 22    84   215  .391
11.Jason Holinbeck-LU....... SR 24    52   134  .388
12.Mike Schmidt-GC.......... FR 23    76   202  .376
13.Brandon Hansen-SNC....... SR 23    64   171  .374
14.Jared Kelly-KC........... SR 22    55   147  .374
15.Brendan Falls-LU......... SR 24    35   100  .350


Just cause you shoot more three's doesn't mean you are a better shooter...it actually does mean you are more one dimensional (you can't do anything else but chuck three's being good at it or not)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 04:36:08 pm
do you believe that becker would have shot 45% if he put up 215?  umm no....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 04:40:31 pm
and 30+ threes in 25 games is not a "ton."  beiard made more than becker shot.  the number of threes you shoot doesnt make you great.  numbers cant tell the whole story, you will just have to go to the RC-MC game in ripon to see what i mean. 

also i doubt becker would be mad if he heard we were calling him a great scorer rather than a shooter...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 04:41:37 pm
Can someone please tell me how becker wasn't a great shooter?  Great shooters are defined in big games and in clutch situations.  I'd like to know what Baird's shooting % is home and away.

Can someone please explain to me how a guy hits 9 threes in someone elses gym and 8 threes against a top 10 opponent and is not considered a great shooter?? (johnson) The logic is allll messed up.  Someone explain to me how 'mixing it up' in the paint has anything to do with being a great shooter? I guess Larry Legend isn't great cause he went inside, and to the basket, FT line etc.  Baird was barely top 10 in our league last year.  215 3's !!!! Put the ball on the floor young man.  I thought Bo Johnson shot a ton of 3's but apparently not!  And trust me Fighting Scot, if Bo Johnson gets an open look the coaches are saying ohhhh F*** as well.

Oh and one more thing....being a great shooter doesn't confine you to behind the arc.  It means you have to hit shots all over the court.  3's are just looked at more because of there worth...but there's more to, then just the 3 point line.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 01, 2005, 04:48:02 pm
Midwest Conference Midweek Notes are posted.

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/BBALLNotes12-1.pdf

Midweek Notes will be posted every week on either Wednesday or Thursday, depending on the number of weekday contests. They are also available on the d3hoops.com releases.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 04:54:20 pm
Fine, Becker was a great player/scorer/shooter.... ???

Beaird in other gyms:

made 9 threes at Aurora, 7 at MacMurray, 3-5 at Ripon, 5-8 at Beloit, and 7-9 at IC = great shooter....

MWC, just a ?, do you think steve nash is a great shooter? what about joe johnson, or ben gordon, how about allen iverson.  I believe that only one of these players is a "GREAT SHOOTER"  what do you think.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 01, 2005, 05:07:31 pm
mwc - some guys are blessed to be both, a la Larry Legend, but let's face it, it's not a common combination...but your argument about "mixing it up in the paint" is off a little...I'm sure you don't consider Shag a great shooter even though he shoots a high percentage, right?  When you see a guy making a majority of shots 10-12 ft. or closer, you don't say, "Man, that guy can shoot."  You say, "Man, that guy can score."

Honestly, I don't remember much about Johnson from last year's game at MC since it was the Tommy Becker show, especially in the 2nd half. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 01, 2005, 05:19:25 pm
mwc4life,
               I am getting so sick of the 139 days until bop and LU are no more. Its like you've conceded that Ripon is not going to better than LU like you had previously believed.  So you are taking the best shot at Lawrence you can, by insinuating they are a one man team and that Braier is the only reason for LU's success in recent years.  In four years at Lawrence, I was utterly amazed of the arrogance of the Ripon fans, even in defeat.  And in my four years there, it was more Ripon defeats than not.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 01, 2005, 05:20:11 pm
Repost of Midwest Conference Midweek Notes

St. Norbert/Lake Forest men's scores from a year ago were reversed.

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/BBALLNotes121.pdf

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 05:38:14 pm
OK,

Let's put it another way....First of all, I do think Ben Gordon is a GREAT and CLUTCH shooter. Steve Nash is a great shooter...you are handcuffing these guys cause they asked and DO more then just sit outside and shoot 3's.  Are you telling me that if Ben Gordon or Nash's jobs were to sit outside and just shoot 3's, they couldn't hit 40%??? Or hit a lot more? You think driving to the basket, rebounding, other parts of bball have anything to do with it? Of course i don't consider Shaq a great pure shooter...obviously, and as far as Iverson he's probably not a great shooter...but again he does a lot more then just shoot 3's, he's asked to do a lot and forces a lot of bad shots.

I realize that I'm not going to convice you that Johnson is a better shooter.  Beaird might be a better 3pt. shooter or maybe even a better set shooter, but all-around, which DOES matter, Johnson is probably better.  I know he could go bucket for bucket with Beaird and he can do it when it counts (hit a baseline out OOB play against LU with a second left).  I guess it comes down to not arguing who is a better shooter, stats will show its Johnson, but what qualifies you as a great shooter...just 3's, outside of 10-12 ft? I just have a problem with you guys penalizing another player for having another part to his game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 06:04:00 pm
LU 05-

Ohhhhhhh my good friend.  Can you please tell me what LU's record was the year before the BOBBER came to LU????? 3-13? Look, don't get too upset over it, but I'm definately going to do it everytime now that i know it bothers you....kind like better dead then red and all your other stupid saying LU fans have for us Ripon grads.  You should look at it as more of a compliment.  Bopper has brought a ton of success to LU's program, maybe even built a power (prob not :))....and i know LU wouldn't have beaten a couple of Ripon's teams during that four years if Bopper wasn't there.  HE IS THAT GOOD...not more skilled then Becker, but maybe a better hustler, motivator, rebounder, leader etc. etc. who knows...he certainly has the hardware to prove it.  There is just something about him that every teammate responds with and these types of players don't come around very often, trust me.  Remember back in the day when Ripon was as good if not more dominant then LU's run now(1998,1999)?  They won 20 games in a row at one point and only lost one regular season game.  They had a player that everyone hated in this league named Adam Zakos.  Well it just so happens Zakos used to kick players out of practice and get into them every day...do youthink Ripon's success had something to do with that? Probably. Fiery competitors just don't come around like that very often.

 Just me, I haven't conceded anything. LU with have to earn its 3rd straight and apparently the teams from down south have decided to participate this year....(easy now) Oh there's also these crazy things called injuries so you just never know. Tell me one thing then, if Bopper isn't in the lineup this year, does LU compete for the title??? Probably not.  He's pretty dang important to their success....just watch what happens to LU when he comes out for five minutes.

129 days until Briar and LU are no more!!! :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 01, 2005, 06:07:53 pm
at least you got this one right.  ben gordon (does not only shoot threes) is a great shooter.  Steve Nash is a playmaker/scorer and a very good shooter, but i would take gordon in a contest over nash any day.  Iverson, is a scorer, yes he is forced to take a lot of bad shots and thus his percentage normally sucks.  but just think about iverson in the suns system.  everynight for most of the night he is basic playing one on one, he would shoot a very high percentage (form everywhere) and i still would not call him a great shooter.  

BTW-i threw joe johnson into the conversation, because if i am not mistaken, last year he lead the NBA in percentage and 3's made (or one of the two) and nobody in the league after watching him this year would call him a "GREAT SHOOOTER!"  he by himself proves my point......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 01, 2005, 06:33:43 pm
mwc4life,
                How can Ripon fans be this arrogant?  Over the past 4 seasons Lawrence has won 6 of the 9 times they played.  You bring up 1998-99?  Of course I don't remember Ripons dominance then, I was a sophmore in high school.  You sound like the Notre Dame fans of the past, who have maintained their arrogance by constantly bringing up their proud tradition.  And that is precisely why people can't stand ND grads and their bull****.  You also bring up the year before Briaer arrived.   Lawrence was 7-9 in league play that year.  They started two freshman and played 5 freshman consistently.  They were led in scoring by a freshman, Holinbeck.  They also lost who I think would have been their best player that year in Rob Nenahlo, whose season ended in like the 5th game due to a back injury.  And even in this "awful" period of Lawrence basketball, they still split with Ripon.  Speculating on how good or bad the team would be without Briaer is pointless.   No one can be sure exactly how could so and so would have been or who would have decided to come to Lawrence if Briaer had never come.  Keep it up though, I will write you a thank you note when Kyle McGillis drops thirty on you commy bastards! 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 01, 2005, 08:07:56 pm
WOW, sorry a for reference that occured seven years ago.  You sure seem to know quite a lot about a team you never witnessed when you were a super old SENIOR!!! 7-9 and all freshman way to reload.  I thought LU doesn't rebuild...they RELOAD!!! It makes me laugh.  Ok, if you're so bothered by the Ripon fans who bring up the past blah blah, then promise me when LU comes down from your Bopper high...in aprox. 129 days give or take, that you won't spout off days of LU's dominance and make references to your great teams.  Please promise me you won't relive how when you were there, LU was great and this and that.  Look you're kidding yourself to think LU is going to dominate like they have for the last two years after Bopper is gone.  Every program has these highs and their time to shine.  I don't know what makes you think LU has been this dominant force over the course of the MWC and that they will always be king.  It just so happens Ripon has sustained a certain level of being competitive for a long time.  Sorry for having a storied past. 

You say Ripon fans are arrogant? It is what it is, but we have the history past and present,  to back it up.  I'm sure everyone thinks you LU fans are just perfect citizens....not like you guys didn't represent us with the greatest class the MWC can give during LU's game @ UW-SP....that's right, its just us arrogant Ripon fans.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 01, 2005, 10:08:52 pm
DHF- all ya gotta do is line up the match and the real bet is on.

Lol... right, because I have magical powers!  :D :P ;)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 01, 2005, 11:30:33 pm
Curse of the Hooded Beloit Sweatshirt. a.k.a. Why Beloit wins on Friday...............

First time I wore the shirt to a basketball game Beloit beat Monmouth. A Red Team.
First time I wore it to a football game Beloit beat Ripon. A Red Team.
First time I will wear it to a road game will be Friday @Grinnell. Yet another Red Team.

Someone recently told me you needed two examples before a curse may lie. I think "Roopadomus" has satisfied the requirements.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 01, 2005, 11:52:51 pm
From what I've seen the last couple of years, both Ripon and Lawrence would be a shadow of themselves without Becker and Braier.  Becker and Braier, in my opinon, are/were the heart and soul of their respective teams.  I think Becker is more of a shooter, athlete while Braier is just a hardnosed thug (and I mean this in the most complimentary way) who gets the job done no matter what it costs.  The guy is a stud.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 02, 2005, 02:00:53 am
Scottie,

I was just verifying my selections on the pick em board. How could you say such a thing  :o  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 02, 2005, 08:29:53 am
I'm just trying to stir things up a little.

Looks like I achieved my goal. ;D

LU05, a word of advice (based on past experience), avoid temptation and don't take the bait.

I think I was actually the first to comment on starting a countdown on Braier. He's the genuine article and the entire MWC (except for LU) will be both happy and sad to see him go. Happy because we don't have to watch him play against our team and sad because we no longer get to see a great player play.

Who knows if LU will struggle after he's gone? Past history, even here in the MWC, indicates that teams struggle to find a new identity after a signature player like Braier leaves. Look at the records of teams in the conference the year after a former POY leaves:
                     2004/5 - GC goes 8-15 after former POY Wood leaves
                     2003/4 - SNC goes 12-11 after POY Hoffman leaves
                     2002/3 - Beloit goes 10-13 after Grant leaves

Even this year Ripon is struggling after Becker left.

Seems very reasonable to project that losing a two time (with a solid chance to be a three time) POY might have a negative effect on the LU team. Regardless of the numbers, we'll just have to wait and see, won't we?
 
   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 02, 2005, 09:28:23 am
Just busting your chops Mr. The Roop...

Hey, everybody get your predictions in today on the pick 'em board.  While certain johnnie-come-latelys will no doubt join the MWC conversation throughout the season, you will rest easy knowing that your individual pick 'em record reflects ALL conference games.

"Monmouth basketball in 2006!"† †>:(
[/color]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 02, 2005, 09:51:32 am
Lawrence can survive and even thrive when they lose Briar.  The larger question is could they survive were they to lose Tharp.  Those a little older remember that prior to his arrival basketball was rarely played at LU.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 02, 2005, 11:44:20 am
Old School, Systemfan86,  THANK YOU!!! Those are all great points and i especially like the research done by Systemfan86.  Do you think there's a pattern here in losing superstars???  I guess LU is just immune to the let down after a great athlete comes in and flurishes.  Maybe not as much as a let down, but the transition period it takes to form a teams idenity.  Look, i know Briar a little bit throw Scottie Landish and the guy is a class act, a great teammate, a hardworker, and good student.  The guy is just a special special player and you are nuts, as a lot of LU fans are drinking that blue kool-aid, if you don't think there will be a bit of a drop off.  I mean Brair is going to go down as one of the all-time greats in this league and when i make my count down to bother LU fans, it really is just echoing what systemfan86 is saying....that we are so so happy to see him go, but a bit sad at the same time to see such a great competitor and winner leave.

Posted by: Dolph Stanley  Posted on: Today at 09:51:32 AM 
Insert Quote 
Lawrence can survive and even thrive when they lose Briar. 

Soooo their better off without him??? I guess I don't understand what you mean by this.



128 days until Briar and LU are no more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 02, 2005, 12:15:31 pm
i am extremely surprised to see so many people picking Ripon over MC at MC this weekend.  is this b/c you truly think MC sucks or strictly b/c i have been proclaiming MC a team to look out for and you northern biasers just dont want to believe.  i think the picks against MC are more wishful thinking and spite than actual thought out predictions.  but whatever....

MC 2-0 (by double digits in both games) this weekend!!!!
[/glow]
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 02, 2005, 12:19:27 pm
Dolph-
Is that Briar Rabbit or Briar Bear?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 02, 2005, 12:29:38 pm
As for MWC basketball, my earlier post was more of a thoughtful inquiry rather than a complaint. 

Hard to tell by your use of the term Coleman mafia, sir. Not very thoughtful.

Perhaps if you want to be mistaken for thoughtful, you can leave the derogatory terms out of it.

Meanwhile, yes, I am always happy to see our poll validated at the expense of the AFCA's.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 02, 2005, 01:10:42 pm
I'm not really sure why everyone is down on Ripon already this year.  I'm not a Ripon fan and I don't have a favorite MWC team.  As many of you know, I'm a WIACer.  I've seen a handful of MWC games the last couple of years, trying to expand my basketball horizons. 

Ripon is just 1-3 and I think their only bad loss was against Marian.  I have no idea what happened there.  Maybe a Ripon fan can tell us what happened.  Ripon did lose the conference POTY in Tommy Becker.  Ripon lost to Point, which is 3-1 after knocking off Oshkosh and La Crosse, who is off to a fast 5-1 start, despite losing to Whitewater in their opener.  It's not like these two WIAC teams were Eau Claire and River Falls here.  Both teams are capable of finishing in the top four in the WIAC.

Ripon still has three solid players in McMullen, Bo Johnson and Schmitting.  Even Paul Wise doesn't look like the biggest piece of wood.

I still think Ripon can make some noise in the MWC this year and it's true they could start the conference season 0-3 since all three are on the road.  In the end though, the conference crown is Lawrence's to lose.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 02, 2005, 01:26:50 pm
i am extremely surprised to see so many people picking Ripon over MC at MC this weekend.  is this b/c you truly think MC sucks or strictly b/c i have been proclaiming MC a team to look out for and you northern biasers just dont want to believe.  i think the picks against MC are more wishful thinking and spite than actual thought out predictions.  but whatever....

MC 2-0 (by double digits in both games) this weekend!!!!
[/glow]

it is called no respect for us fighting scots!!!   that will be changed this weekend ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 02, 2005, 01:46:49 pm
I have nothing but respect for a team that owns two wins (out of three) against winless opponents.  ;D ;) :D lol. 

Just talking a little friendly trash.  I'll be happy to eat my words if Monmouth beats Ripon.  I shouldn't even care since I'm not even a Ripon fan, but like I said before, I don't understand why people are down on Ripon already.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 02, 2005, 02:01:55 pm
so what fan are you??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 02, 2005, 02:05:39 pm
No Respect? Maybe its more of Ripon is off to a terrible 1-3 start and can't afford to take these weekend games lightly.  In years past Ripon has jumped out to a fast start and an early top25 ranking.  They have done this for the last 5 or 6 six years and this is the first "bad" start for them in  along time.  I think at times, especially on the road, Ripon has thought they were unbeatable and don't come out with an A+ effort early in the conference season.  They have always had some of the best athletes in the conference year in and year out, but they haven't put forth what it takes to win road games...ala Briar and LU as of late.  I personally think MC is going be extremly tough at home this year, but until they PROVE how good they are by winning games away from monmouth, people are going to have some doubts about them...they did lose their best leader last year, and those are hard to come by.  Also Ripon has lost in the last moments the last two years there so maybe they get their just due....Or maybe a ref calls another foul at the end of the game and Ripon loses by 1 i don't know.

Old School makes nice points about the players Ripon still has.  They are talented and can get the job done as much as any team in this league.  Soph. Paul Wise is filling in nicely and he will only get better as he learns and becomes more comfortable with Gillies motion offense. Wise is aver. 12.8 pts/gm 4.5 brds/gm and is very athletic.  Ripon's Freshman Vahantre Brown, who i think is going to be special in this league, had 17 against UW-L and is another guy slowly coming along.  I noticed that Ripon is 9th in the conference in assists at 11/gm which is terrible for them (usually in top 4).  It's obvious they aren't playing that well together.  But with more games and reps, it will get better.  I know Schmitting had an injury after the UW-GB game, which made him miss significant practice time in the fall, and is slowly recovering from it.

*another crazy stat i noticed....Briar is 3rd in conference so far with 5.33 asst/gm...WOW


128 days until Briar and LU are no more....wait isn't McGillis going to be gone too!!! OHHHH MAN
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 02, 2005, 02:32:26 pm
"Posted by: Dolph Stanley  Posted on: Today at 09:51:32 AM 
Insert Quote 
Lawrence can survive and even thrive when they lose Briar. 

Soooo their better off without him??? I guess I don't understand what you mean by this"

No.  They clearly have thrived with him there.  It simply means that IMO the single biggest factor in the success Lawrence has enjoyed over a period stretching back more than four years  is not Braier (happy JeffP,  ::) but Tharp.  While it may be a long time before LU lands another player like Braier (if ever) look at what Beloit has accomplished (or failed to accomplish) with Hinz. Great players come and go but great coaches find a way to compete more often than not.   Lawrence will not be the same team without Braier next year and will probably indeed be in a rebuilding mode (the number of teams at the D3 level who "reload" is VERY small) but as long as Tharp remains I would not look for them to take very long to be back at or near the top of the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 02, 2005, 02:41:52 pm
As for MWC basketball, my earlier post was more of a thoughtful inquiry rather than a complaint. 

Hard to tell by your use of the term Coleman mafia, sir. Not very thoughtful.

Perhaps if you want to be mistaken for thoughtful, you can leave the derogatory terms out of it.

Meanwhile, yes, I am always happy to see our poll validated at the expense of the AFCA's.

Let's see if I got these fascinating blue-box-things to work...

Pat, I'm sorry you feel my term is derogatory and not thoughtful.  I thought it was a witty metaphor.  You know me...I'm a laugh a minute.  Anyhow, I'll try to refrain from using it.  (Just don't screw the Scots or any other MWC team in the polls if they're having a dynamite season...ha ha.)

Now, if I can only figure out how to add one of these clever pictures...

Warmly,

Scottie

p.s.  Where are you Steve Cool?  Are you going to stand up for the Redhawks or what?   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 02, 2005, 03:14:38 pm
MWC Announces Live Video Internet Broadcast Of Four Basketball Games On Friday, January 13

The Midwest Conference, in conjunction with media technology firm Penn Atlantic, will stream live internet video of four MWC menís and womenís basketball contests free of charge on Friday, January 13.

The four contests, which will be aired with full video, will feature Lake Forest at Ripon and Grinnell at Lawrence. The womenís contests are scheduled to tip-off at 5:30 p.m. and the menís games will follow at 7:30 p.m.

More details on the broadcast will be available next week.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 02, 2005, 03:23:42 pm
Dolph, we all know why you love Tharpy....let it go buddy, he's never coming back :)

I have no doubt that as long as Tharp is there LU will be competitive, but I know they won't be as dominant as they have been in the stretch Braier was there.  I'm sure they'll win conference again sometime, two in a row...maybe three no way that happens again. 

I have a question then.  What is Tharps record, resume, playoff apperance, etc. besides the years that Braier was there?  How long has he even been at LU? I really don't know the answer and am curious.  I'll assume that if i don't hear any responses that it isn't all that impressive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 02, 2005, 04:31:44 pm
MWC Announces Live Video Internet Broadcast Of Four Basketball Games On Friday, January 13

The Midwest Conference, in conjunction with media technology firm Penn Atlantic, will stream live internet video of four MWC menís and womenís basketball contests free of charge on Friday, January 13.

The four contests, which will be aired with full video, will feature Lake Forest at Ripon and Grinnell at Lawrence. The womenís contests are scheduled to tip-off at 5:30 p.m. and the menís games will follow at 7:30 p.m.

More details on the broadcast will be available next week.


Very cool for those of us far away! Thanks for posting these announcements here.

Pat, if it wasn't before, it's official now, you are very D3 mainstream!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 02, 2005, 05:24:32 pm
"Dolph, we all know why you love Tharpy....let it go buddy, he's never coming back "

No question about that.  They had their chance and blew it but thats another story.  However, as I have stated before, they might have a shot at an alternative that could turn out even better after this season.

If Tharp leaves, it won't be for another program in the MWC

For the record, he is 166-97 in 11 +(?) years at LU. Prior to Braier they won the conference championship in 97 (their first in 53!!!) years going 22-3.  They also played in the conference chamionship games in 98 and 2000.  This was a program that at the time he took it over considered an seventh place finish a moral victory.

While Braier will be missed, old guys like me have seen what a coach with a good system and excellent recruiting connections can do.  I remember (as Roop probably does) when Mark Smith ( a D3 All American and IMO a better all around player than Hinz) graduated from a Beloit team that had been ranked #1 in the country (prior to losing to Augustana in the tournament).  Back to back conference championships followed with a solid group of players but no one nearly as talented as he wa. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 02, 2005, 06:54:28 pm
When Briaer graduates, Lawrence loses a great player, I concede that.  And it may be difficult to overcome his loss in the short term.  But in the long term, I feel Lawrence will be able to maintain their high level of play because of what guys like Briaer have accomplished in the last couple of years.  Why can't anyone understand what a great recruiting platform Lawrence has created? There is no school in the MWC right now that can match LU's sales pitch.  Other schools in MWC can match up with LU academically (Beloit & Knox) and Grinnell is ranked higher.  But can anyone offer the combination of high academic standards and a team that has played in and won  HUGE NCAA tournament games?  Why wouldn't you want to go there if you were serious about playing d3 basketball?  I think the success of recent years is already paying dividends in recruiting.  Enough of this, convincing a Ripon fan is like trying to convice Sammy Sosa to take a pitch.     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 02, 2005, 07:11:39 pm
Dolph,


Tharp has gone a combined 65-17 while Braier was there (including this year) and obviously recuiting is a ton easier when you can say you are a consistant contender year in and year out (not to mention a top 15 team).  But that would make Tharp 101-80....not bad at all, but not the dominant force they are with Briar...and maybe i can throw in the McGillis bros (just as tough)  Look you can have all the talented players/recuits come in, but if they don't have the drive, toughness, defensive mentality that it takes run over our conference like LU has done recently, then there isn't much on an argument.  Like I said earlier....read my posts, I know LU will be contenders most years when Tharp is the coach there.  He does a great job with his players, but it won't be like this anymore...this LU cocky dominance.  Dolph, you make sound like Tharp might end up leaving?  Gillie almost left three years ago to be the top assistant under Rick Majerus at Utah, but he knew what he built at Ripon was more then that.  Will Tharp stay there and build an empire? Doubtful


128 days until Braier and LU are no more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on December 02, 2005, 07:30:55 pm
Can anyone tell me if the LU - IC game is going to be webcast at all tonight? Or even if there is a live stats page?

Also, of course it will hurt LU when Braier graduates -- how could it not? But how come no one can spell his name? Aren't we all current/former college students? It isn't that hard: B-R-A-I-E-R. You may not want to root for him, you may be excited for him to graduate, but it is really hard to take any of you seriously when you can't properly string six letters together. Not to mention mwc4life spelled MacGillis' name wrong...

I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.

Look you can have all the talented players/recuits come in, but if they don't have the drive, toughness, defensive mentality that it takes run over our conference like LU has done recently, then there isn't much on an argument. Like I said earlier....read my posts, I know LU will be contenders most years when Tharp is the coach there. He does a great job with his players, but it won't be like this anymore...this LU cocky dominance.

Alright, first of all, what makes you think that Tharp is not looking for drive, toughness and defensive mentality? Of course they aren't as easy to assess as a player's jump shot, but at the same time those traits are necessary  for the style of play coached by Tharp. Braier is a great basketball player, but he is by no means the same as a Tommy Becker, meaning the team does not count on him to lead the scoring charge. Lawrence wins games because they play solid team defense, have good fundamentals and hussle.

Secondly, are you referring to the cockiness of the team or of the fans? 'Cause the fans are cocky -- you would be a pretty crummy fan if you didn't trash talk when your team was again the favorite to win the MWC. And maybe I am biased (in fact, I'm sure I am) but I just don't see the team itself as being cocky. Confident, sure, but they lost four starters to graduation, have a ton of young players getting minutes, and they know they need to come to play every game if they want continued success this year. And if they don't, Tharp (or Braier) will make sure they know it pretty soon. Your two statements contradict each other: you say, with Braier, the team is driven and tough, and yet cocky? I'm honestly curious as to what specifically makes you think the team is cocky -- I'm just assuming my LU bias is clouding my judgement.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 02, 2005, 10:00:18 pm
Scores anyone?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 02, 2005, 10:23:43 pm
Scottie - Bad news out of Monmouth tonight...

RC 90 - MC 83

Not one of the Scots' better defensive efforts in this game (way too many easy buckets for the Redhawks), but still managed to keep it around a 10-point defecit for most of the game and even pulled within 3 late in the game; RC led 49-39 at the half.  For MC, Singleton shot pretty well--had something close to 28 points on quite a few 3's (not sure on the exact number).  Need to get tomorrow's game against Beloit to salvage a split at home this weekend.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 02, 2005, 10:47:27 pm
Quick assessment of Ripon:

Bo Johnson -- Very impressive scorer/shooter

David McMullen -- High risk (six turnovers), high reward (10 assists), but clearly a talent

Brian Schmitting -- Very effective big man

Paul Wise -- A very, very solid fourth starter, from what I saw

Singleton had a breakout game for the Scots, but they either need to have two guys hitting from distance on the same night or better interior production (and both would be even better!).

Ripon was the team with some question marks coming in, but it looks like they've passed the ???s on to the Scots.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 02, 2005, 10:52:04 pm
Thanks for the updates.  Hoping for better Scot-luck tomorrow.

How bout the rest of the league scores???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 02, 2005, 10:55:49 pm
Grinnell dominates Beloit. 133 to 101 (I think) Roop must be wearing Jeffp's GC shirt.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 02, 2005, 11:14:06 pm
yup, dc! "the roop" certainly looks good in that Grinnell shirt. All the fans and even some of the team checked it out and approved. (my Beloit shirt ain't too shabby either, though!)

You are a great sport, Mark. I appreciated your company and insight tonight.

Well, I guess the cat is probably about outta the bag by now. That score has to give some folks pause, doncha think? Grinnell has avenged losses to 3 teams (Cornell, MtMercy and Beloit) from last year by margins of 20 or more points. They can come at you from 30 different directions with myriad combinations and no let down. The 1st years are outstanding, the seniors are real leaders this year, and everyone in between is having fun playing this game. I'm still not gonna cut loose until we get a few more under the belt, but every game it gets harder not to be more specific about what works. I'm not suggesting they will win 'em all, but I don't think they will have to get used to it (losing) like they did last year. Great bunch of kids!

Dispite the score, BC will have to be reckoned with this year. They are very talented and strong inside and Hinz is a premiere player in the nation.

Maybe Grinnell will be ok after all, huh? :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Dolph Stanley on December 02, 2005, 11:39:23 pm
"Dispite the score, BC will have to be reckoned with this year. They are very talented and strong inside and Hinz is a premiere player in the nation."

Hope so but I doubt it.  Remember, these two teams played even last year and all we heard (read) about was how much BELOIT was going to improve this season.  Sounds like Grinnell  was the one making huge strides.

By the way, Jeff what happened to Fieck in tonights game?  It looks like he picked up a foul early (1st minute) and then never returned.  Did you see an injury?  If so, could you tell what it was?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 03, 2005, 12:11:08 am
According to the scoreboard.

Lawrence 82 Illinois College 57
Carroll 85 Knox 58
Grinnell 133 Beloit 105
Lake Forest 66 St. Norbert 59
bottom feeder Ripon 90 Monmouth 83† ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 03, 2005, 07:41:56 am
Dolph-
I meant to post this last night but spaced it off:
Fieck was called for a charge in the first 8 seconds or so of the game and came down hard on his head. Looked scary for a moment, but I'm guessing a concussion. He did not look well the rest of the night and sat out. I know how good he is and I'm certain his absence made a difference last night. It was a shame to see him go down, especially so early. I hope he is alright and can play tonight against Monmouth.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 03, 2005, 10:30:30 am
Just so everyone knows, by cheering that "The Roop" lost the bet you are also endorsing "The System". So it seems young Skywalker you must choose...................

For the game last night I'd have to give Grinnell a B+ and Beloit a C-. GC was near their goal for 3 point % but the way they got there was very streaky shooting. Beloit missed way too many gimmes under the basket and that, above all else, sealed their fate. Losing  Fieck certainly didn't help but some of the new players didn't handle the pressure as well as I thought they would.

(When I'm back on home turf and am not being forced at pitch fork point by the Iowa Militia to write nice things, I tell the true story of the game)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mnelson on December 03, 2005, 04:59:19 pm
Anyone know of a webcast or live stats link for Knox - LU?? Or could someone at least post some updates during the game?

Thanks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 03, 2005, 06:17:32 pm
If the game is at Knox,  you're probably out of luck.  I'm sorry, but they are about as low-tech as you get.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 03, 2005, 06:55:52 pm
Is there any update with any of the game?  Is the Ripon/Grinnell game on the net?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: runandgun on December 03, 2005, 07:14:36 pm
Grinnell beat Ripon.  108-102... I think.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 03, 2005, 07:16:17 pm
Actually, it was GC 110, RC 104.  An absolute nailbiter. Neck and neck the entire game. I'll let JeffP give the details, but suffice it to say that GC earned this victory!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 03, 2005, 07:16:45 pm
Is there any update with any of the game?  Is the Ripon/Grinnell game on the net?

How about an early "rule" that if your school is going to do a webcast, please advertise it on the board prior to the game and include the link, if possible.

Any other scores out there??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 03, 2005, 07:18:32 pm
Actually, it was GC 110, RC 104.  An absolute nailbiter. Neck and neck the entire game. I'll let JeffP give the details, but suffice it to say that GC earned this victory!!!

Yeah, but don't forget Ripon is a bottom feeder! ;) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 03, 2005, 07:39:30 pm
Hate to report this, Scots faithful, but MC went down again at home, 86-75 to Beloit. The highlight was a four-possession stretch when Beaird made four straight catch-and-shoot treys to give the Scots a five-point second-half lead. From there, Towns, among others, came up big for the Bucs. Hinz had a double-double in the first half and finished with 20 points and 14 rebounds.

Monmouth WILL play better in January, but even though it's early, an 0-2 home start is hard to overcome. Their margin for error is down to about nothing now at home the rest of the way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carlsandburg on December 03, 2005, 07:50:48 pm
Lawrence 71, Knox 60...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 03, 2005, 07:56:04 pm
Grinnell vs Ripon.

What a great college basketball game. two great teams, two great coaches, and a great atmosphere for this game. Like dc said, Grinnell earned this gritty, bruising, heart pumping back and forth whipsnorter of a game. Ripon is huge inside, willing to run with the fastest, and certainly NOT the weak sister some have suggested. Schmitting is one fine ball player as is mullen. This team is tough.

But tonight anyway, they couldn't beat Grinnell. Total team effort; TOTAL!!! Brock's defense, Paul's defense, Kieths defense, Jack and John and Bobby and TJ and Doug and ... and... What? I'm talking defense? I don't give a rats patoot if you guys don't think GC plays defense. Defense WON this game, my friends!

The 1st years had a rough time tonight but learned a ton and held it toghether to contribute to this win. Monster 1st half from Toby Carlson. Monster game from Paul Nordland. Monster performance from a team too young and too short and too (whatever you want to insert here) to pull this off. All heart and grit and pain and guts and effort.

Both teams!

One complaint. I've alluded to it before as have others. Mr Gillespie is a great tactical coach and recruiter. His teams always plays hard and strong. But, once again Gillespie walked away. Yeah he shook Coach A's hand. But then he walked away from his players, our players and one hell of a game without so much as a nod. This was too great and close a game to pull this one more time. No heat of emotion crap is gonna sway me on this. Both teams deserved more from Coach G. I wonder what the message is that he is trying to send here? He abandoned the final moment of a fantastic show. No pride lost, no outrageous game ruining calls, just hard gritty MWC ball from both teams. Please fix this before you come back, coach. You owe it to us, and more importantly, you owe it to the team you coach to show just one tiny bit of respect to every player on that floor. Just one handshake per player, thats all.

What a Game!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 03, 2005, 08:25:09 pm
Hey, jeffp, which was more satisfying? Tonight's win or Roop in the Pioneer colors? ;D

Great game and glad to see them hit their FTs, looks like the ones they made down the stretch were VERY important.

The next game looks like a very tough one. Wartburg is #18 in the D3Hoops poll and I'm guessing they'd like to get a little payback for last years loss to the Pioneers.

Hope the GC players are ready to go!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 03, 2005, 08:37:40 pm
Beloit 86 Monmouth 75. It looks like Fieck did not play and that's probably a good thing.

FYI......... All future smites of "The Roop" will trigger the uploading of the New Roop Order virus onto your computer. Firewalls and virus protection are helpless against it. A fix is available for it but you must send me proofs of purchase from 5 20oz Roopacinnos (that's how Jeff spells it), two of which must be double shots.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 04, 2005, 01:33:15 am
I went to both BC games, and the system definately works, especially when your 3 biggest fans are the guys running up and down the court in stripes.  What an incredibly terrible refereeing job!!  Those refs are terrible and everyone should know about it.  Fieck has a concussion because he was undercut on the first layup of the game!  No call made.  Grinnell could basically reach and bump and no calls made, BC would try to be as agressive and they would get called.  Those refs need their licenses removed!  I feel sorry for any team that has to go in there and think they're going to get a fair game, it won't happen!  One of the black refs even threw an old BC fan out of the game, how ridiculous:)
The Monmouth refs were much more alert and called a fair game.  Beloit played really good despite having a Grinnell hangover.  Towns, Hinz, Dowden, Horton did extremely well.  BC shot well, had control and never panicked, even with youth.  Nice win without Fieck.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 04, 2005, 03:30:18 am
Jeffp,

Thanks for the game report.
Grinnell vs Ripon.

What a great college basketball game. two great teams, two great coaches, and a great atmosphere for this game. Like dc said, Grinnell earned this gritty, bruising, heart pumping back and forth whipsnorter of a game. Ripon is huge inside, willing to run with the fastest, and certainly NOT the weak sister some have suggested. Schmitting is one fine ball player as is mullen. This team is tough.

Nice compliment on the Ripon team, something those Monmouth fans refuse to admit.  Of course, a lot of that talk had to do with how Ripon is in trouble and could start the conference season 0-3 because of the road games and how Monmouth has two home games and should start out well because they were 10-1 at home last year.  Well, tough to guage Monmouth with two home losses to kick off the campaign.  Needless to say, Ripon is not the bottom feeder.  I don't know why, but I'm just a little bitter because of all the trash thrown Ripon's way. 

Yeah I know it's early.  I feel like I'm a true Ripon fan defending them from all these Monmouth posters! lol. ;D  It's all in good fun.  Though they lost tonight by a slim margin, I'm glad that they still got some props from Jeffp!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 04, 2005, 10:13:11 am
gobucs-
What a load of BS, my friend! The refs cost BC a 30 pt win? Get real. The "Old BC Fan" getting kicked out was younger than I am so he wasn't old. Just obscene, profane and close enough to the floor to be heard. Constantly. There are parents and kids who sit in that endzone section. My understanding is that one finally complained. If you can't follow the rules of engagement as a fan, dont be surprised if you get the boot. And what the hell kind of crack is that about the "black official"?  Did his color make a difference to you?
As for Fiecks foul? Our player was camped out and standing stock still straight up. Find the game tape and look.
Who cleared Feick to play, anyway? I heard from the most reliable of sources that he sustained a concussion in practice the day before.
Beloit is a solid team and will win games in this conference. They could beat GC down there. One thing though, if we lose by 30, we won't blame the oafs.

Old School-
Ripon bashers should be very careful, IMHO. They may have a steady diet of words to eat this year.

AM- beating Ripon, of course! Although, the Roop looked great in that shirt, and he managed to down 2double Roopacinnos (snuck the extra shot in on ya BOTH times, Roop ) at Saints Rest Saturday morning without spilling a drop on it! ;D

I'm outta here til Monday Morning, so unload on me now. Im defenseless. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 04, 2005, 11:51:15 am
Jeff,

You're right...the refs didnt cost Beloit a 30 point loss.....however...they are sooooooooo homer it is'nt even funny. Beloit lost because they didnt make shots like they should have and they didnt play defense. But when a team goes into Darby they haveto know that they are gona get homered. i looked at the stats and saw that beoit out fouled Grinnell. How is this possible?????....Grinnell is the aggessor ..always reaching grabbing arms...it is part of the system. Beloit...and Im sure any other team that plays there ...will get called for tiny little hand checks after GC has been jumping over backs....riding ball handlers...hacking grabbing and anything else they can get away with....again part of the system. If Refs called all the fouls they should call an opposing team would shoot 50 ft's or more...they arent gonna do that and GC counts on that as part of the game plan......Tough teams just play though it and win.....Beloit was not tough enough that night...thats it......

But please be honest about the total biased towards GC from the refs....its always been like and I'm sure it always will be.

As far as the Beloit fan getting tossed....i was sitting at that end of the floor and he never swore once or was obscene at all. The ref just got tired of listening to him ride him about how bad he was...plain and simple......the GC fans...typical obnoxious....calling out players and coaches names ...same old same.....just to be expected there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 04, 2005, 11:52:44 am
Love to hear a Ripons fan's perspective on the game. We've heard from Jeff...lets hear from Ripon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 04, 2005, 01:38:09 pm
That wasn't a crack about a black official, It was just a description.  The grinnell fans should've had a "T" for all the obsenities they were yelling at Coach C, and for calling timeouts for BC.  Maybe we wouldn't of won the game, but I guarantee it would've been alot closer if the officiating was good.  By the way, how many games has GC won in Wisconsin in past years.  I bet cha it will be a totally different game in Beloit!!!!  Was the referee JT a friend with the GC fans?????  They were chanting his initials during the game!  JT was snickering at times, when the fans were doing this.  Now this is BS, I bet that 2 of those oafs were Grinnell grads!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 04, 2005, 01:52:09 pm
C'mon Beloit people...............

I think we should be more focused on, and pleased with, the fact that Beloit just went 1-1 on what was a difficult road trip and did so without one of their starters. I posted about the Grinnell game once (probably 3 pages back by now) and never mentioned the officiating because it had no imact on the game. Was it bad?? Yes and everybody there knew it. Bad to the point of disrupting the flow of the game but not bad enough to make any difference.

Beloit had 27 fouls to Grinnells 23. I don't know how a mere 4 foul difference constitutes a bias towards anybody. Fouls were even at half time and the only discrepancy was at the start of the second half. Beloit had 7 to Grinnells 2. Mainly because Beloit was fouling more during that stretch.

I guess I'll just have to go back to Grinnell when Beloit isn't there to investigate the alleged "Homer Conspiracy" because I certainly didn't see it on this trip. LU @Grinnell might work out because I could catch the Beloit @Knox game on my way back home the next day.




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 04, 2005, 03:00:29 pm
A bit bitter over getting thumped, gobucs?

By the way, how many games has GC won in Wisconsin in past years. I bet cha it will be a totally different game in Beloit!!!!

In the entire state, or just Beloit itself? Five of the ten teams in the league are from WI, so it will take a little longer to calculate that. Of course, all that may prove is that it's hard to win on the road in the conference, especially when the team you're asking about has to travel out-of-state for every road game. We haven't used that excuse, but if you feel the need to make the refs an excuse, go for it. Will it will be a different game in WI? Of course it will, it's a home game for Beloit and a road game for Grinnell. It would be moronic it think it wouldn't be different.

Now this is BS, I bet that 2 of those oafs were Grinnell grads!!
If they were, dontcha think we should have hired them last year when we played the bucs on the duece?! Sheesh.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 04, 2005, 04:02:35 pm
I think 2 of the refs did do the ESPN game.....and they were just as bad then...the big difference this is is that beloit'd defence was better last year and they made their shots. Like I said the refs didtncost beloit the game...they are part of the GC system. They plan on the fact that the refs wont make the calls they should.....the refs just get caught up in the circus.....The tougher teams can prevail....Beloit was not tough enough Fri....

Still would love to here from some Ripon faithfull about their game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 04, 2005, 07:17:28 pm
Jeffp~

Thanks for the insight to the game and the kind words about what sounded like a great game to see.  It's nice to know Ripon is playing better and can win on the road this year.  A 1-1 split from the South will get you in the Conference tourney every year....as long as you hold your own at home.  From what it sounds like, Grinnell is back to its old home gym advantage and is going to be tough for anyone to beat them there.  The "hanger" used to be one of the hardest places to earn a victory.  Why couldn't Ripon get off the hump and win? Did they knock down FT's?  Did they seem a bit inexperienced?  Did you see that Freshman V.Brown at all? Tired?

D3bbfan~

For starters, i didn't see any of Ripon's games this weekend, so i can't really shed some light as to why/how Ripon played like they did.  As far as the whole ref thing.  It does surprise me when Grinnell's opp. out foul them.  Like you, i don't see how a team that plays at that pace can physically control themselves.  I've fought this battle many times stating, as you bucs fans have, that if the game was called the way it should be opponents would have a better chance to win.  I've argued to no avail and Jeffp, Systemfan, Roop, etc. do not see the same games we do.  It's no coinsedence that Grinnell doesn't win as many games on the road then they do at home....but then again that's no different anywhere else.  With that being said, I kind of, for now, have gotten over that fact and just assume its going to take a collosal effort in order to win there....its just a hard place to win at period!  Also, I highly doubt part of coach Arnsenal's plan is to pay off officials in order to win games.  It's the responsibility of the refs to make the calls, not coach or Grinnell's players.  The officials get caught up in the fast paced, up and down tempo and end up becoming fatigued.   From my experience, the Grinnell kids are class acts.  They apologize for the hard fouls, they even know they are aggressive and foul, but it's not their fault officials don't make the correct call.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 04, 2005, 08:42:59 pm
I found the comments re: Gillespie's behavior interesting.

I didn't know he considered leaving to be an assistant at Utah, but I suspect he didn't do it because he really wants the LU job if Tharp leaves ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2005, 12:24:28 am

 I've argued to no avail and Jeffp, Systemfan, Roop, etc. do not see the same games we do. 

mwc4life,

JeffP will be JeffP, say/accuse him of whatever you like but I doubt it's possible to offend the man. Systemfan is way out of MWC country these days and doesn't see many (if any) games anymore. Which leads me to me, and I'm not sure how I suddenly got heaped into the Grinnell fan base????

There was a time when I lived and died by how the Bucs did and/or how the officiating was "theoretically" against them. Then I turned 15 and realized that a Beloit win or loss was not a significant life changing event. Since then I have kept things in their proper perspective.

Over the years I've found that most teams with a history of winning at home tend to be good teams in the first place. So next time you (you meaning anybody) follow your team on a road trip somewhere, try to ignore any rumors of biased officiating. If you can't, then that's all you'll ever see.

In closing........... For all those incapable of acting their ages, at least try to act 15 and you won't be as miserable when your team doesn't go undefeated. Here ends the lesson.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2005, 12:48:19 am
JeffP/Systemfan86,

I will be paid "Officials rate" for my last post right ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 05, 2005, 08:24:28 am
JeffP/Systemfan86,

I will be paid "Officials rate" for my last post right ???

Absolutely, Roop. As we agreed, the rate is the same as the price of the flavor in a Saints Rest Roopacinno!

Man, I'm glad you threw out the age reference. I was thinking it, but decided against it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 05, 2005, 09:33:46 am
I have just gotten back to the computer today from Friday so I had to catch up on scores and comments. 
First, a Grinnell team should NEVER be out fouled.  Give any fan that statement....I trapping, high octane team fouls.  How can they have fewer fouls than the other team.  As far as anything else, I wasn't at any games so I can't complain about the officiating, just stating and obvious statement.
Then a little sweet irony that Ripon goes 1-1 on the road, and Monmouth goes 0-2 at home.

Glad to see that Ripon played better.  A win at the impossible @ Monmouth, and from what jeffp wrote, Ripon played a good game @ Grinnell. (thanks for the update jeffp  :)) 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 05, 2005, 10:32:34 am
Man, you guys should listen more to 'the Roop" (yikes! did I just say that? ;D). We have had this discussion soooooooo (to quote d3bbfan) many times since I've been posting here it gets to be a bit silly. If you will (try to) remember, last year I mentioned that I thought the officiating had gotten better in the conference in the last few years but that I thought maybe it had slid a little during the year. I have mentioned before that I wish the  genepool for d3 officials in the midwest was better. One thing we can all do is keep asking conference administrators to make sure that officials are prepared for MWC ball and for system ball. Yes, believe it or not, we complain about officiating too. We think YOU guys get homers way more than we do. So what does that mean? Absolutely nothing unless you complain to the right people. I know letters have been written to conference administrators, and I know the letters have been responded to. Be cogent, make a solid arguement and they will listen. Just don't expect me or other GC fans to listen to you prattle on about how bad the oafs are here every time you get smoked by the system, and we won't do it when you guys beat us at your place. POINTLESS!

d3bbfan- are you a "somewhere between 6 and 12 year old" Grinnell fan or parent? Those were the only folks sitting in the endzone besides the guy who got ejected.

gobucs- I still don't see why you had to single out the "black offical". Have you ever singled out the "caucasian official"? Just ripping on the "official" is sufficient for conversation on this board IMHO.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 05, 2005, 10:41:43 am
One more thing about officiating-The Roop and I sat together at the GC vs BC game. We both complained about calls, we both comiserated about calls that went against our respective opponents. We both knew it could be much better (and it actually was on Saturday in the RC vs GC Game) but we both knew it was bad BOTH ways! Maybe if we  tried to 'integrate' fan sections or sit GC/BC/GC/BC or something so that we could all put the officiating in perspective.

The Roop-man that shot of your mug looks good! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 05, 2005, 11:04:56 am
According to the scoreboard.

Lawrence 82 Illinois College 57
Carroll 85 Knox 58
Grinnell 133 Beloit 105
Lake Forest 66 St. Norbert 59
bottom feeder Ripon 90 Monmouth 83† ;)

Damn........

Old skool, i guess you cant see me eat crow, so ill just give you a karma boost.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 05, 2005, 01:32:40 pm
OFS,

I returned the favor.   ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2005, 01:39:27 pm
Man, you guys should listen more to 'the Roop"

Many already do and "The Roops" personal appearance is undeniable proof of that. When introduced by name people were friendly and polite, but nothing special. Then when they were informed that I was indeed "The Roop" proper accolades were paid. To which "The Roop" would say, "you may rise".

Players, staff, their family, friends, towns people in general, even teams from out of state came to become one with the New Roop Order; and it was good. Unfortunately Saints Rest only seats about 300 and there were at least that many awaiting "The Roops" arrival on Saturday morning. That doubled in less than an hour. Fearing that JeffP would be cited by the Fire Marshall "The Roop" chose to leave early.

While the millions and millions of "The Roops" fans have grown significantly in recent days, there is more work to be done. There are still a few lost ones out there who were unable to make the pilgrimage. So by popular demand (and because it's a payday weekend) "The Roop" will return to Grinnell for the Lawrence game as previously rumored.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2005, 01:50:29 pm
Quote from: jeffp
we went on to have our best morning of the year. Everyone must have thought you were still here! :D


So let it be written, so let it be done.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Cheeb on December 05, 2005, 02:04:33 pm
Early,

The defenders in the Grinnell system are taught to avoid fouling
on the press in order to keep the game going back and fourth.  
Grinnell plays defense, but only for short periods of time. They want the
ball back and they do it by getting a TO or getting scored on.  Many of
Grinnell's fouls come after a long shift in order to get a new line of five on
the floor and others come on the occasional steal or block attempt.

On offense GC attacks at full speed posession after posession
looking to score quickly against five defenders who actually are
determined to stop them.  You can't deny that both the pace of the game
and the number of defensive posessions often lead to fatigure, slow feet,
and in the end, fouls.

While it isn't common, we can't sit here and assume that if another MWC
team had more fouls than GC than the officiating was bad.  It has to do with
many factors, including GC 3pt%.

That said, Grinnell got the majority of the close calls this weekend.  But overall
the officials were solid.


Beloit played alright but missed too many easy shots to stay in the game.
Ripon was solid. They looked exhausted but kept playing. Props.

Cheeb Da Cheetah

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 05, 2005, 02:29:11 pm
I   want to put this Grinnell thing to rest but I have to get a few things off my chest first.  I drove almost 300 miles to see a great game at Grinnell.  It was the first time there and I was pretty excited.  Firstly I was impressed with were the facilities.  They are really great for that size school.  Secondly I like the system.  It brings excitement to the game for the kids, fans and conference.  I was impressed that the foodstand had brats to help me enjoy the game, even though the foodstand is in a funny location.

There were certainly some disappointing things also.  The Bucs didn't play well and didn't finish well.  The refs aren't good enough for this conference.I know that Grinnell is out on an island but I don;t understand  why you would let refs pull that crap year after year.  It has to get better or teams will start to forfeit and not make the trek out there.  Why waste your legs for the slim chance of winning and screw up your chance of winning on Saturday somewhere else.    Lastly, somebody has to tell the students that they should try to show some class.  Calling timeouts for teams, tugging on opponents shorts when they are throwing the ballin, and disrespect for the opponent isn't good enough also.  Are they really  what the average student at Grinnell is like.  I hope not.

I was guess that's why we haven't heard from Ripon's Fans that made the trip.  They were smarter than me and didn't waste their time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 05, 2005, 02:46:18 pm
Man, you guys should listen more to 'the Roop"

Many already do and "The Roops" personal appearance is undeniable proof of that. When introduced by name people were friendly and polite, but nothing special. Then when they were informed that I was indeed "The Roop" proper accolades were paid. To which "The Roop" would say, "you may rise".

Players, staff, their family, friends, towns people in general, even teams from out of state came to become one with the New Roop Order; and it was good. Unfortunately Saints Rest only seats about 300 and there were at least that many awaiting "The Roops" arrival on Saturday morning. That doubled in less than an hour. Fearing that JeffP would be cited by the Fire Marshall "The Roop" chose to leave early.

While the millions and millions of "The Roops" fans have grown significantly in recent days, there is more work to be done. There are still a few lost ones out there who were unable to make the pilgrimage. So by popular demand (and because it's a payday weekend) "The Roop" will return to Grinnell for the Lawrence game as previously rumored.

Your honor, I submit exhibit A in the "The Roop is a legend in his own mind" case!

 ;D :o ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 05, 2005, 02:49:27 pm

If they were really tugging on the shorts, that's a little over the line, but in my opinion, crazy, rediculous, often disresepctful fans are part of the home court.  I've never been to Darby, but in general the fans picking verbal fights with players and coaches all lead to the betterment of the team.  Obviously some people take it too far, profanity is unnecessary and everyone needs to keep things in perspective (its a game), but its one of the main reasons I enjoy basketball.

You just have to be able to shake the guys' hand and say good game afterwards, no matter how much yelling you did during play.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 05, 2005, 02:54:57 pm
Gobucs-
Yeah, I know that Grinnell fans are terrible. Every other school in the conference is so well behaved. I know that at Larry they all sit quietly during the game. At Knox and Monmouth they sing the opponents fight song in a show of sportsmanship. At Carroll and Ripon they sit on their hands and clap quietly at good stuff from both teams. At Beloit, they are so mannerly that they don't even show up at games half the time.
GOOOD GRRRIEF!!!!

sf86- 'the roop' spent most of Saturday morning at Saints Rest looking for his mind actually. I promised him I would send it to him c/o Pat Coleman if it shows up.

Hoops Fan- no, nobody pulled anyone's shorts. What a ridiculous hoot of a whine that is. Although, they (the student section) may have managed to call the time out mentioned, it was hard to tell. If so, it was one of the funniest stunts I have ever seen at a game; all credit to the Baseball team!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 05, 2005, 02:59:36 pm
BTW- the time out was never credited to BC and they retained possesion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 05, 2005, 03:00:48 pm

The timeout thing is awesome, right up there with some of the stuff I pulled of as a student.  I'd be proud to be in that class.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 05, 2005, 03:01:20 pm
sf86- 'the roop' spent most of Saturday morning at Saints Rest looking for his mind actually. I promised him I would send it to him c/o Pat Coleman if it shows up.

Hoops Fan- no, nobody pulled anyone's shorts. What a ridiculous hoot of a whine that is. Although, they (the student section) may have managed to call the time out mentioned, it was hard to tell. If so, it was one of the funniest stunts I have ever seen at a game; all credit to the Baseball team!

Re: "The Roops" mind.  I thought I saw it on top of the Roopacinno...

Re: funniest stunts ever, I know I'm biased, but I'm still partial to the sound effects game again Coe back in the day. It's harder to pull off a good stunt in a small crowd, but we gave it a good shot.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 05, 2005, 03:34:33 pm
GOBUCS~

I would make the trip every year if it wasn't so far for me.  It's one of THE most exciting games to watch and I know Ripon's Gym is ALWAYS packed for the games against Grinnell.  I know I'm probably not the one to say this but give it a rest.  It is definately a home advantage however you look at it.  If you make easy lay-ups and hit your FT's, there's a great chance you can beat Grinnell.  Can it just be a chance that Grinnell's system is back and that they've going to be extremely tough to beat at home?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 05, 2005, 03:46:33 pm
well put, mwc4life!
Might i also suggest that Grinnell DID NOT invent or define the term "home advantage". I honestly believe it is part of our sports lexicon and can be used to describe the situation at any home court game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 05, 2005, 03:56:39 pm

One of the few things JeffP won't claim to have originated at Grinnell... you should hear his diatribe on the discover of fire by a small group of students standing in line at old darby waiting for the doors to open back in 54,000 BC.


Fire! A great way to keep warm. 

Brought to you by Grinnell College
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 05, 2005, 04:09:33 pm
Fire! A great way to light...er, stuff! ;D

G'night folks! It is way past this old geezer's nap time!

Early to bed
Early to rise
Makes a man
tired and addicted to caffiene.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 05, 2005, 04:14:20 pm
Very good points from jeffp, Cheeb Da Cheetah and mwc.

go bucs, don't stop going to Grinnell.  It is a great place to see a game, although I haven't seen the new facilities.  But I Grinnell fans AT TIMES have shown little to no class in my experiences.   Now I've been in other gyms, Ripon's included, where students has disrespected the opponents so I'm definitely not saying we are all perfect.


but in my opinion, crazy, rediculous, often disresepctful fans are part of the home court.  I've never been to Darby, but in general the fans picking verbal fights with players and coaches all lead to the betterment of the team. 


I completely agree here, but there have been some extreme cases @ Grinnell that are classless.  Yelling OCD to Julian Schwartz, who suffered from OCD, and I've seen Coach A go up to students and give high fives to fans that were picking fights with visiting fans and even parents.  Grinnell fans have picked 2 fights with my own father at the games.

But I have also heard some of the most creative chats there too.  I don't want to say that they don't have class, or any less class than other students.....there have just been some REAL BAD cases in my experience.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 05, 2005, 04:15:53 pm
I   want to put this Grinnell thing to rest but I have to get a few things off my chest first. 

I know that Grinnell is out on an island but I don;t understand  why you would let refs pull that crap year after year.  It has to get better or teams will start to forfeit and not make the trek out there.  Why waste your legs for the slim chance of winning and screw up your chance of winning on Saturday somewhere else.

I agree that we should put this to rest, and I appreciate the kind comments you did make.

What I don't completely understand is this...as recently as last year, your bucs traveled to Grinnell and won. A national cable audience witnessed it. So why do you present this as some unbearable situation? The implication that we somehow 'control' the refs (because they don't make calls or that we 'let refs pull that crap') is silly. If there was any validity to it - and there isn't - why wouldn't Grinnell have exploited it for their advantage on nation cable television?!

Bad refs are bad refs. They just seem a whole lot worse when their bad calls go against you. I'm guessing everyone on the board can tell a story about bad refs. You're wise to let it go.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 05, 2005, 04:24:28 pm

Of course if we want to reach the level of d1, we have to being infultrating not just the games with pranks, but the other team's fans as well.

Do you recall this story (http://www.diamondbackonline.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/01/28/41f9ca982b370)?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 05, 2005, 08:53:30 pm
At Knox and Monmouth they sing the opponents fight song in a show of sportsmanship.


Stop it Jeff, you're killing me.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 05, 2005, 11:41:10 pm
I was guess that's why we haven't heard from Ripon's Fans that made the trip.  They were smarter than me and didn't waste their time.

I was in Stevens Point watching the Pointers beat up on River Falls.  All because they lost doesn't mean it was a waste of time.  As you said, you enjoyed it.  If it is indeed 300 miles, yeah, that's a long trip.  It's not like I'm every going to drive to Superior to watch the Pointers play.  ;D

I'll miss the big Ripon/Lawrence game as well, since Point plays host to Stout. Sorry boys, I got priorities!  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 06, 2005, 01:17:23 am
Final from Kenosha...

Carroll 82
Carthage 74

Apparently the Carthage boys are trying to make the loss to Carroll look as good as possible...

per press release:

The Carthage College menís basketball team (1-5, 0-0 College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin) lost to No. 38 Carroll College (Wis., 5-0), 82-74, on Monday, Dec. 5 at the Carthage Physical Education Center in Kenosha, Wis.

Thought that was kind of funny.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 06, 2005, 02:08:15 am
They did that with football, too. Rankings beyond No. 25 are not recognized by D3hoops.com. Or D3football.com, for that matter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 06, 2005, 02:30:19 am
Question to Lawrence fans...

I went to the Oshkosh/Lawrence game at the beginning of the season and was glad to see they added bleachers behind one of the baskets. 

What was the seating capacity at the Alex prior to those additions and what is it now with the new bleachers in place?  It definitely looks a lot better than a bunch of people standing around behind that basket and all those little kids sitting on the ground beyond that tacky rope you guys had!  ;)

Is this in any way a result of trying to possibly host a tournament game in the future, considering they probably weren't even considered because of the lack of capacity in the past? 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 06, 2005, 05:19:51 am
OS,

With the possible exception of a first round game, neither Lawrence or Grinnell are likely to host anything. "New Darby" is nice but it lacks the seating capacity for anything more than the MWC Tournament. So the next question for the Grinnell faithful is: 

"Why build something with a regulation court in order to host NCAA post season events, if you don't include enough seating to be seriously considered for hosting NCAA post season events"??





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 06, 2005, 08:08:26 am
Because, Mr 'The Roop', as everyone knows Grinnell isn't interested in winning and hosting tourney's, just harrassing fans, coaches and players from other MWC teams. New Darby is plenty big enough for that.

Sorry Early. I really have to doubt your story about papa. I have never seen anything remotely close to someone from the student body attempting to fight with a parent of an opposing player. I talked to one long time security person who has no knowledge of such an event, and he dogs the student section.

I'm not saying it couldn't or didn't happen, I just seriously doubt that it did.

BTW- there is a huge difference between verbal jousting and attempting to physically fight with someone. The former may happen frequently and should be taken for what it is-funny and somewhat silly. The latter should be delt with severely but it has to be reported to be addrressed.

Cheeb- you sound like you mighta played system ball at some time, huh? ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: True Basketball Fan on December 06, 2005, 08:26:19 am
What's wrong with saying "NO. 38 Carroll".  IF one would put numbers in front of the "others receiving votes" teams, that's exactly what they would be.  I'm not suggesting that the poll be expanded (the Top 25 is just fine), but let the stragglers enjoy some limelight, especially since there are 400 or so DIII teams.  NO. 38 sounds pretty good now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 06, 2005, 09:12:28 am
If Carthage would have waited a little longer, their loss could have been even more justifiable...Carroll is up to No. 36 as of this morning! 

FYI: Does anyone know who No. 44 New Jersey City is playing this week.  If they lose, it might make room for the surprising Grinnell Pio's.  I think they're ready to make a jump from the 50's-60's...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 06, 2005, 09:13:45 am

I'm glad someone mentioned Carroll on this board today.  I haven't seen much on them early with all the Ripon, Larry, GC rabble going strong.  What do we know about them?  I went out on a limb picking them over Carthage in the CCIW Pick'em contest, but I thought I was toast.  Was that a fluke or can they hang?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 06, 2005, 09:14:29 am
jeffp,

Purhaps I was a little overzellas about my "fight" statement.  It wasn't an actual fist fight, but, as you stated, a verbal jousting.  But a student did stand up and get in my dad's face.  So no fisticuffs, but you don't get in the face of another teams parents, is all I'm saying.  The just verbal jousting IS a part of the game, and realize I DO like Grinnell fans (mwc4life can back me up here), just a couple (literally 2 or 3) of cases that really disapoint.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 06, 2005, 09:30:06 am

You'll probably find a couple, if not more, cases at any school.  It's where that line between good natured (if often cruel) ribbing and genuine anger gets blurred.  You need to have good upperclassmen who will keep control of things and let people know what's over the line.

I don't want to sound to religious here, but its not necessarily what comes out of the mouth, but the actions and attitude that accompany it.


I guess I'll get to see for myself in about six weeks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 06, 2005, 09:31:25 am
jeffp,

Purhaps I was a little overzellas about my "fight" statement.  It wasn't an actual fist fight, but, as you stated, a verbal jousting.  But a student did stand up and get in my dad's face.  So no fisticuffs, but you don't get in the face of another teams parents, is all I'm saying.  The just verbal jousting IS a part of the game, and realize I DO like Grinnell fans (mwc4life can back me up here), just a couple (literally 2 or 3) of cases that really disapoint.  

We've seen stories on this board about some students from nearly every school that disappoint us. Heck, we have stories about coaches who disappoint us, so let's not make this out to be a Grinnell problem. It's a problem with 18 to 22 year-old males. Don't hold me to everything I did when I was that age because I'm sure you'd be disappointed in that too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 06, 2005, 09:56:58 am
Early-
sorry it happened, but it is much easier to live with what did happen than what I had inferred had happened from your statement. GC students have been doing a better job (in my opinion) policing themselves after the fiasco with the player several years ago. As AM says, it is a problem anywhere 18-22 year old males gather. There was a problem earlier in the season with a 1st year who made some awful remarks during a game. Other students tried to deal with him, but when it didn't work, Student Affairs was made aware of the problem and the kid was warned about future behavior.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on December 06, 2005, 10:54:18 am
I went out on a limb picking them over Carthage in the CCIW Pick'em contest, but I thought I was toast.  Was that a fluke or can they hang?

Hoops Fan - I too went out on the limb and picked Carroll over Carthage.  Carroll only lost two seniors last year; and, seems to have good junior (experienced) and sophmore talent on this year's team led by a couple of  experienced seniors.  I think Carroll will make a legitimate run for the conference title.    As for Carthage, they are still trying to find the correct chemistry.  If any coach can find it, Bosko can.

And, congratulations to Carroll.  It is always tough, regardless of record,  to beat Carthage on their home court.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on December 06, 2005, 11:22:39 am
While I am posting on your board, I would like to suggest Jacksonville area fans put December 17th on your calendar when Illinois College hosts D3hoops #1 Illinois Wesleyan University.  A good opportunity for area fans to see a top ranked team from an outstanding college basketball program.

The IWU Titans travel with a large and loyal fan base (998 average per away game 1975 average per home game this season) which will most likely exceed the average 333 fans attending IC games this season to date (source IC website).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mission Man on December 06, 2005, 12:48:02 pm
Hello everyone, I used to post here last year and damn near forgot about the site.
I need to let Scottie know that I'm now not only a Knox grad, but I'm the new sports editor for the Monmouth Review Atlas. I'll try to keep you updated on what's going on with them this year.
After the games I saw this weekend, Ripon-MC and Lawrence-KC, I'm thinking that both teams have players they've not been able to replace yet. Maybe by Jan. they'll have it figured out a little, but MC got virtually nothing from Beaird Friday once Ripon figured out that MC didn't have much of an inside threat to replace Miller. And Knox really, really needs someone to replace Helm as a rebounder and defender. They'll survive Kelly's loss, but I think Helm is the loss that hurts that team. We'll see what January brings.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 06, 2005, 01:01:49 pm
Hey Mission Man.  I hope I never hear that Knox is receiving more sports coverage than Monmouth in the Review Atlas...   ;D  Enjoy the Maple City!  I'll be sure to be equipped with a generous supply of M&M's IF I make it to a game this season.

Scottie
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on December 06, 2005, 02:10:59 pm
OS

Those seats were not permanent for the Oshkosh game.  They were the same ones used for the conference tourney and other big games (Grinnell coming a couple of years ago).  They were taken out after the game again I believe.  My guess is that they will be put in place for the Ripon game on 1/7.  LU did host a first round game two years ago (same bleachers were brought in).  If LU has a conference winning year, it will be a kick in the pants if they are sent some place like Oshkosh(who they beat already) to play in the tourney.  With the new format, which I understand to be 4 teams in each location for the first two rounds, it seems unlikely that LU would host.

Unrelated....... my guess is Carroll is very good this year.  Really only lost one senior who contributed much.  As much talent as anyone in the conference.   They appear to be appropriately picked in the top two.  Nice win at Carthage (I would ignore their record...on the road against tough teams...I bet they beat Beloit by 15 Wednesday).

Jeff P, nice to see Grinnell off to a good start.  I think it actually makes things more interesting.  Grinnell games are ref'd differently at home than on the road, but I would not claim to be able to pinpoint why.  I think the ref's that see them more often probably give them a little more latitude.  Before I get clubbed, I am not claiming that is wrong.  I'll bet ref'ing their games is a real challenge.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 06, 2005, 02:30:35 pm
Lawrence has 4 players scoring in double digits this season, one of them being a freshman.  LU lost 3 double digit guys in Evans, holinbeck, and falls from last year.  It looks like the younger guys were able to make that loss up. 

We don't rebuild, we reload.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 06, 2005, 02:31:54 pm
Hello everyone, I used to post here last year and damn near forgot about the site.
I need to let Scottie know that I'm now not only a Knox grad, but I'm the new sports editor for the Monmouth Review Atlas. I'll try to keep you updated on what's going on with them this year.
After the games I saw this weekend, Ripon-MC and Lawrence-KC, I'm thinking that both teams have players they've not been able to replace yet. Maybe by Jan. they'll have it figured out a little, but MC got virtually nothing from Beaird Friday once Ripon figured out that MC didn't have much of an inside threat to replace Miller. And Knox really, really needs someone to replace Helm as a rebounder and defender. They'll survive Kelly's loss, but I think Helm is the loss that hurts that team. We'll see what January brings.

Miller was an inside threat???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 06, 2005, 02:46:25 pm
lu nut-
Go back a few and read Cheeb da Cheetah's post for a different perspective on what GC is coached to do on the press. What you think you see is not always what actually happens.
One way i have heard it put is be aggressive with the feet and not the hands. I know that won't really convince anyone, but if you ever get courtside for a GC game take a real close look at the players so-called hacks while running the full court press. It really is difficult to pull off, but still possible.

I have talked to many officials before and after games here. I haven't found too many that like oafing a GC game. None of the 3 at the Beloit game have ever expressed much love for it. You have to be in shape, without question. We have seen many times where the same oafs are pretty fair one time through and pathetic the next. There seems to be no explaining it. As long as players are kept safe i won't do too much complaining on this board. I do love to wail on 'em during the game though.

The oafs for the Ripon game were as good as it gets in the midwest, and two of them had never done a GC game to my knowledge. The one who is familiar with Grinnell (the caucasian one ;D :o ;D) did the poorest job of the three.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 06, 2005, 02:48:46 pm
"We don't rebuild, we reload."

LU05-

HAHAHAHA, man EVERYTIME i see that written i chuckle...thanks for the good laugh, i needed it today.  I'll remember the reloading part when Briar and MaGillis leave next year.  

"LU lost 3 double digit guys in Evans, holinbeck, and falls from last year.  It looks like the younger guys were able to make that loss up."

It's kind of early to make that assement, but as of right now it seems like the younger guys are stepping up for LU.  There are so many intangable parts to what those guys brought to games.  Depending on freshman can be a scary thing, down the stretch, during important games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 06, 2005, 03:35:17 pm
hey guys, first post of the year.  some of you may remember me from late last year.  just wanted to let you guys know that i've been following the conversations and getting absolutely no school work done.  i'm sitting next to jason scheper, yes The jason scheper in carroll's fantastic computer lab talking hoops and getting nothing done.  i'm pleased to see my guys getting some national recognition, but for carthage to actually put No. 38 carroll on that release looks kinda needy.  i'm also sitting here beside the incredibly intelligent (who am i trying to kid) chris albanese (2-time, 1st team mwc linebacker) he's maximizing his productivity with alittle techno. 

for anyone with doubts, carroll is for real and nothing thus far has been a fluke.  i watched them practice the day before that huge win over whitewater and had no doubt in my mind that they would come out and compete against tough competition.  since i've been a carroll student we've been tough in hoops, going to the conference tourney the last two years.  i believe that this is the year we get over that hump.  if briar and mcgillis keep track of this page, just want to let you know that i like you, you're good guys, and showing up to a carroll open gym over the summer made me chuckle....nevertheless when we roll into town on january 18th its business, nothing personal.

also, on a nonrelated subject, i don't understand what this infatuation with grinnell is all about!  they haven't played anyone.  a candy-ass non-conference schedule followed by a sub par beloit and a depleted ripon.  when they start playing the quality teams in our conference the outcome will cease to be so rosie.  that's all for today fellas.  i look forward to some good natured banter as we go down the stretch.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 06, 2005, 04:14:19 pm
You might get some "good-natured banter" for the "depleted Ripon" comment. I saw them on Friday and they may be "Becker-less" but I wouldn't say "depleted."

There was a quote in the Monmouth paper (I believe Mission Man wrote the article) from the Ripon coach, saying the Monmouth game was the first time all season they had put things together. I'm sure there'll be other nights where they do the same this year.

Carroll does look strong so far, though. I will definitely give you that.

So glad I don't have to prep for finals anymore. Have fun!  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 06, 2005, 04:15:31 pm
wwallacecc - I don't think any of us remember you, but your productivity sounds amazing!   ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 06, 2005, 04:29:30 pm
Carroll is the Fresno State of our conference. With a roster full of transfers and players deemed academically ineligable at other schools I have to ask the question, WHY ARE THEY IN OUR CONFERENCE?  I think we may have to institute a division 1 style survey of the rate of graduation of Carroll College basketball players. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 06, 2005, 05:12:02 pm
wow...i'm not sure who you are LU 05, but you sure are clueless.  we do have our share of transfers on the team, but not a single one that was "deemed academically inelligble" by other institutions.  our student athletes work hard on the court and in the class room.  they have mandatory study sessions in the library in season and out of season because academics comes first!  so next time you shoot your mouth off about the integrity of the program or its players....do some research. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 06, 2005, 05:50:49 pm
wwebenwallace-

"....nevertheless when we roll into town on january 18th its business, nothing personal."

HAHAHA, another funny comment of the day.  I can't say too many bad things about Carroll this year ummmm seeing how they are undefeated and all, but losing Hicketheir is a lot bigger deal then you think.  That guy could close games, get to the foul line and knock down huge shots.  I knew Carroll was going to be talented this year, but stop talking about them like they are the second coming.  I realize the number 38 or should I say number 36 ranking is a big deal for you guys since you really aren't used to it, but we kind of have a team that is ranked a lot higher then you guys....Their name is LU (which rhymes with pooh) and they have one of the best players in the country on their team.  Go ahead and be the translator for CC and maybe they'll give you a spot in the team photo (it will say our official D3 hoops trash talker...the reason for our success).  You win a one big non-conference game (at home) and start 2-0 in this league and it's time to call out LU!!! One loss and you will be forgotten about.  Tell Jason I said hi...I'm sure you'll be in the huddle right there with him.

125 days until Briaer and LU are no more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 06, 2005, 05:53:44 pm
What were the conditions of Toshner leaving Lakeland?  What were the conditions of Sheper leaving Platteville? Do you even know?  And how OLD are they? Is it the mission satement of division 3 basketball or the midwest conference to try and "recruit" transfers?  Carroll conveniently seems to have an impact transfer every year, and I personally feel like that is no coincidence(examples: Shwartz, Monfry, Johnson, Sheper, Toshner).  Thus, I label them the Fresno State of our conference.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 06, 2005, 09:31:53 pm
LU 05,

You may or may not be correct, but calling out specific players for having been academically ineligible is BEGGING for a lawsuit!  I hope you've done your homework.

Looking more closely at your posts, I note that you did NOT state that Sheper and Toshner flunked out of their previous schools - but you sure as hell implied it.  A lawsuit might or might not be successful, but (unless you have some insider info) I still find your snide implications very distasteful.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on December 06, 2005, 10:26:20 pm
What were the conditions of Toshner leaving Lakeland?  What were the conditions of Sheper leaving Platteville?

Looking through their previous season stats and rosters, Sheper is nowhere to be found on Platteville's website and Toshner is nowhere to be found on Lakeland's.  Is that really a big deal that they transferred from a school where they never even played???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 07, 2005, 12:58:03 am
Thanks for the explanation, LU-NUT.

I have been there 3 or 4 times and it's the first time I've seen the bleachers there.  They should just leave them there!  ;D  Any idea what the seating capacity difference is with and without those bleachers?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on December 07, 2005, 09:12:34 am
OS

Nope...but it can't be more than 5-600 seats.(just my guess).

Despite the size, it is a fun gym with a lot of character when it is full.  My guess is that the Grinnell, Ripon and Carroll games should fill it up.

Nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 07, 2005, 09:19:57 am
LU 05,

I know Shwartz went to Carroll to be closer to home, and Monfry was a good friend of Shwartz....I'm sure that had something to do with Monfry going to Carroll.  AS for the other guys I don't know.

The Larry gym is a fun gym to play in.  It's always packed and loud cause of the close quarters.  I can't wait for the RC/Larry game on the 7th.  It could use more seats.  I have a very large love-hate feeling for it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 07, 2005, 11:26:27 am
Schwanman, Maverick,

At least one team seems to be doing well in Monmouth?  are the Titans as good as i thought they would be or have they just not played anyone yet?  and maverick how are the baby titans doing?  I need updates, i miss it soo much.....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 07, 2005, 11:28:18 am
The Midwest Conference has announced that the league, in conjunction with media technology firm Penn Atlantic, will stream live internet video of four MWC menís and womenís basketball contests free of charge on Friday, January 13. The four contests, which will be aired with full video, will feature Lake Forest College at Ripon College and Grinnell College at Lawrence University. The womenís contests are scheduled to tip-off at 5:30 p.m. and the menís games will follow at 7:30 p.m.

Complete Release linked below...

http://www.midwestconference.org/WebStream12-7.pdf

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 07, 2005, 02:08:22 pm
Schwanman, Maverick,

At least one team seems to be doing well in Monmouth?  are the Titans as good as i thought they would be or have they just not played anyone yet?  and maverick how are the baby titans doing?  I need updates, i miss it soo much.....

Wait until the Titans play the Ghosts!!  Nice OT win over the conference champs last night..

Smoov, how far are you from Glendale?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 07, 2005, 02:43:49 pm
Mr. Ypsi,
              I don't need to be "snide," but are you serious?  I am in danger of being sued because I objectively questioned the practice of bringing in transfers at Carroll?  On what premise?  Slander on an anonymous message board? Journalism 101= asking questions is never slander. 


  And if we are going to allow the practice of bringing in multiple tranfers, I think the midwest conference needs to institute a rule that would require prospective transfers to sit out for a year.  Just to be clear, I am not being critical of the occassional transfer student.  But basing your recruiting strategy on bringing in impact transfer players seems "distasteful" to me.  For you NCAA guidleline gurus out there, what is the guidleine regarding contact between coaches and prospective transfer students?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 07, 2005, 03:04:00 pm
Bad timing, Old Fighting Scot. The Titans lost their conference opener (at home) last night after going 6-0 to start the year (your sophs won, though, thanks to a studly effort by Johnny Ayers).

Back to some D3 hoops ... seen Redlands yet?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gcfan33 on December 07, 2005, 03:15:59 pm
I'm going to fan the flames by saying that yes: Ripon is depleted.  I'll also go out on a limb and say that they may never recapture their old winning ways as long as LU and Carroll continue to recruit some quality athletes.  Is Ripon even accredited as a collegiate institution?  That may be one of life's true mysteries.

The Grinnell Pios are going to run the MWC table.  Mark my words.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 07, 2005, 03:54:04 pm
The Grinnell Pios are going to run the MWC table. Mark my words.

BA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!! LMAO!

No one is running the table in the MWC. Please don't bring that kind of boast to this board. No one wants to hear it.

Is it me, or is the board losing some of it's character?  ???
It seems a lot more angry lately.   :(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 07, 2005, 04:11:57 pm
The team that has the best chance of running the table is LU. Carroll is a very strong second.  I think the rest of the conference is up for grabs.  Grinnell will be very tough at home, with its homer refs and all, but that'll change on the road.  As far as Ripon being depleted, I don't know.  They didn't impress me when I witnessed their play, but they have talent and there's alot of ball to play yet!
As far as the board getting grumpy, maybe its this February weather that were having in December?
I'm over the loss to the pio's, we'll get em at home:)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 07, 2005, 04:12:19 pm
Where is Steve Kohl when we need a little happiness?  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 07, 2005, 04:30:15 pm
The Grinnell Pios are going to run the MWC table. Mark my words.

BA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!! LMAO!

No one is running the table in the MWC. Please don't bring that kind of boast to this board. No one wants to hear it.

Is it me, or is the board losing some of it's character?  ???
It seems a lot more angry lately.   :(

I have to agree.  I think it will be a toss up as well.  I hope the scots start playing well.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 07, 2005, 04:40:26 pm
The team that has the best chance of running the table is LU. Carroll is a very strong second.  I think the rest of the conference is up for grabs.  Grinnell will be very tough at home, with its homer refs and all, but that'll change on the road.  As far as Ripon being depleted, I don't know.  They didn't impress me when I witnessed their play, but they have talent and there's alot of ball to play yet!
As far as the board getting grumpy, maybe its this February weather that were having in December?
I'm over the loss to the pio's, we'll get em at home:)

I repeat...NO ONE is running the table...not even LU. The fact that you can name me a strong second is evidence enough that it won't be done. I wonder how long it has been since someone did?

BTW, if your going to claim that GC has 'homer refs'...you're not over it yet.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dropkick11 on December 07, 2005, 04:48:18 pm
Hey LU ..

The guidlines for talking to prospective transfers state that any DIII student-athlete can get a self release form and send it to any schools they are interested in...The school's coach then has 30 days in wihcih they can contact the prospective recruit without that recruits school knowing about it at all. This little rule was instituted quite recently and is not that well known yet to the athletes...But if a prospective transfer talks to a coach without the release it is illegal..Although I have heard of prospective transfers having their H.S. coaches call for them....So that is it in a nutshell as
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 07, 2005, 04:49:08 pm
I'm confused...if you have talent, how are you depleted???  I doubt, as long as Gillespie is there, that Ripon will ever be depleted.  He is too good of a recuiter and has a lot of people out there helping him out....plus, there's always a possibility that his son scottie comes to Ripon and he is indeed a special player (if he doesn't get a big scholarship somewhere else) The future is safe.  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on December 07, 2005, 05:02:43 pm
What were the conditions of Toshner leaving Lakeland?  What were the conditions of Sheper leaving Platteville?

Looking through their previous season stats and rosters, Sheper is nowhere to be found on Platteville's website and Toshner is nowhere to be found on Lakeland's.  Is that really a big deal that they transferred from a school where they never even played???

LU 05- No comment.......??  You brought these names up, so I figured you would know.   Or didn't you have any facts to support your claims???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on December 07, 2005, 05:11:06 pm
Plus, there's always a possibility that his son scottie comes to Ripon and he is indeed a special player (if he doesn't get a big scholarship somewhere else) The future is safe.  

Don't get your hopes up Ripon fans....... I predict Scott will end up at a Mid-Major D1 (UWM, UWGB, etc...)  To go along with being a great ball handler, he is a lights out shooter, and moves pretty well laterally which is one of the main differences between D1 and D3, (along with size.)  I would be really surprised if he didn't go D1, unless he suffers some type of unfortunate injury between then and now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 07, 2005, 05:25:01 pm
Cubs..

Don't get your hopes up..I think Lu nut was just lighting a little fire uinder William wallaces behind to try and tick him off...trust me i know the technique well as early and several other Ripon posters can attest...

I remember William wallace from last year..he was the guy who tried his best to look like braveheart at the MWC tournament and when LU beat his team soundly he had to crawl back into his little hole, and most likley considering the substantial smell of booze on his breath, had one helll of a hangover on the way back to Wakuesha.



As for some other comments..

LU won;t run the table.  I think they are the best team in the MWC, but somewhere on the road someone will catch them.  Could be a tough rival game like Ripon or Carroll, or like last year a hot shooting team like Grinnell or someone else could catch them off guard.  I just know they will be damn tough to beat in Alex.

As for the extra bleachers in Alex...The seating capacity without those bleechers is 1350, and with them is goes up to 1800, do 450 would be a good guess for those.  Trsut me, there are more then 1800 people in there for a big game like the RC game will be in january.  I know braodcasting the conference final last year against ripon, i had 6 people in the small press confines on top of the seats with me in a space that is really only fir for about 2, so they were packed in tight
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 07, 2005, 08:15:34 pm
For the record, I am keeping all of my options open.

Still Karma-challenged,

Scottie

p.s.  This site will never be the same until we all get back the basics.  I'm talking about the haikus people!†
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2005, 08:48:25 pm
The New Roop Order
has heard all the haiku pleas
become one with it
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 07, 2005, 08:54:10 pm
Lunch time is over
"The Roop" must go back to work
night shift has grown old
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2005, 08:57:10 pm
If daily haiku
is the order from on high,
must we all obey?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 07, 2005, 09:26:42 pm
What's wrong with saying "NO. 38 Carroll".  IF one would put numbers in front of the "others receiving votes" teams, that's exactly what they would be.  I'm not suggesting that the poll be expanded (the Top 25 is just fine), but let the stragglers enjoy some limelight, especially since there are 400 or so DIII teams.  NO. 38 sounds pretty good now.

Problem is, it's a Top 25. It's not a Top 40. Ask Don Hansen if he wants to rank basketball teams again, you might find someone willing to give a Top 40.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 07, 2005, 10:16:11 pm
GC falls to Wartburg, 111 - 97. I'll leave the details as usual to JeffP. Suffice it to say that Wartburg played very well, particularly defensively.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 07, 2005, 10:18:38 pm
Hoping to hear news
that's good from Maple City.
What say you Schwannie?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 07, 2005, 10:27:39 pm
Final from Glennie:

MC 87 - AU 80

Chad Trudo hit 10-14 on 3's for 32 points to lead Aurora.  However, Chris Hebeler did just a little better knocking down 12-17 on 3's to lead Monmouth with 38 points.  I wasn't at the game but judging from the box score and stat lines like those, I sure wish I would've been.  Anyhow, a good win for the Scots heading into the winter break. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 07, 2005, 10:34:12 pm
Hebeler on fire
Trudo answering right back
What a game tonight!

(For those scoring at home, Hebeler is two syllables ... it's like the middle "e" isn't there. At least, that's our story)

For those reading at home, you might also think the "D" was missing. But a lot of the threes, especially Hebeler's, were decently guarded.

Odds are, Hebeler will cool off just a tad now ... the Scots don't play for a month!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 07, 2005, 10:39:09 pm
Schwanman, Maverick,

At least one team seems to be doing well in Monmouth?  are the Titans as good as i thought they would be or have they just not played anyone yet?  and maverick how are the baby titans doing?  I need updates, i miss it soo much.....

Wait until the Titans play the Ghosts!!  Nice OT win over the conference champs last night..

Smoov, how far are you from Glendale?

Old Fighting Scot - The Titans are having a good season so far, 6-1 record.  Haven't played much competition yet, but went down to the wire with the state's 15th-ranked team (Orion) last night and just missed pulling out a win.  The sophs are 2-0 with a nice win in last night's game against a strong Orion soph. team and should continue to be good throughout the season.  The freshmen (baby Titans) are 1-2 right now; struggling a little bit but we're going to get it turned around real soon.  I'll try to keep you updated better in the future! :D

Snydz - I don't think we'd have to play the Ghosts unless it was sometime in March during the Elite 8 in good ol' Peoria.  You are right in that it was a hell of a nice win for them over Washington and that Roth kid last night--not too bad for a sophomore.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 07, 2005, 10:50:02 pm
Geesh!  Did they have to replace the nets after the game?  Those guys were on fire. 

Congrats to the Scots!  Hopefully they can begin to match that intensity in conference play.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2005, 10:57:11 pm
Hebeler on fire
Trudo answering right back
What a game tonight!

(For those scoring at home, Hebeler is two syllables ... it's like the middle "e" isn't there. At least, that's our story)

For those from the south, you don't have to truncate Hebeler - fire is only one syllable! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tps040580 on December 07, 2005, 11:01:41 pm
Wow. 12-17 from behind the arc.  :o And 10-14 isn't bad either. 44 threes in a game really isn't really Glasgow's style. That has to be about 20-25 more attempts than usual. It must have been a strange game to watch, but I guess if you are making them like that, the reigns get loosened a bit.

The Grinnell-Wartburg boxscore looked interesting too because after hearing the Beloit and Ripon people talking about fouls my eyes immeditately went there. It really was a huge disparity tonight.  Wartburg took 47 FTs to Grinnell's 14. I wasn't expecting to see it given it was a home game. Also interesting, Monmouth took as many threes as Grinnell.  ???

SNC hung around with UWO for a long time as well. UWO led 46-44 with 5:54 left before going on 6-0 run over next 2:20. 57-52 final. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dahammer on December 08, 2005, 02:01:44 am
Interesting that LU05 would bring up Carroll and transfers.  It seems that with a little research every team currently has or had transfers play a role.  St Norb has lallensack and Zepnick (had K Hanalu POY 03), BC has Dowden and Horton, Ripon has Kellet and Mueller (had Becker POY 05), LU has Bradley, Knox has Zick, and MC has a couple also and those are just the ones I could find anything on.  Transfers are a part of D3 and every team has guys that don't play. Didn't Coach Tharp start off his career at LU by getting a Beloit player to transfer with him causing a lot of bad blood with Coach Knapton? My point being lay off the transfer bashing.  It seems that Tharp may be getting  worried after seeing Carroll play at Carthage and set out his goon squad to try and discredit a team that may beat them.  If this Carroll Team wins it this season it will be because they had the best team this year.  If you see this Carroll Team this season you will be impressed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on December 08, 2005, 02:22:32 am
Dowden is a freshman...1st year out of high school. Horton went to a JC and didnt play ball there.

An amazing and disapointing game for Beloit at Carthage. It looked like Beloit was gonna get blown out....they were down by 20 with 10 min to go. Then they started a come back and took the lead by 3 with 15 secs to play. a TO and missed shots put the game into over time.  BC went up by 3 in the OT but just couldnt hang on for the win. If any good came out of the game the BC didnt quit and should have came out with the win. It was a very exciting game. A great come back. Wish they would have come out with the win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 08, 2005, 02:45:24 am
Should the Larry U faithful expect a win on Sunday then?  Not sure what your post is trying to say, if Beloit was good enough to come back to almost win or if Carthage was bad enough to blow a huge lead!  Though, they have to be good to get that lead in the first place...or Beloit bad enough to give it to them!  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 08, 2005, 04:14:07 am
Losing at Carthage certainly isn't a crime. That has been a tough place to play at since always.

Beloit isn't likely to win to MWC this year but I really like the "new attitude" they have this season. Two years ago especially, and even last year, a 20 point defecit at any time would have easily turned into a 30 point loss.

I think Tubbs took a nice step forward tonight scoring wise, but he needs to watch the fouls.

et al

LU probably wins there without much trouble.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 08, 2005, 08:56:04 am
Wartburg had a great game plan last night and Grinnell went cold for two 4-5 minute stretches in the 2nd half after posting a 7 pt lead at half. WC had almost the same plan as the Aussies, only they didn't turn it over 52 times and they finished almost every possession with a lay in. GC  had a good solid 1st half and totally unhinged in the second. Not only were the treys not falling, but the chippies weren't either. You can't miss lay ups  and 5 footers, get way out-rebounded, and win against good teams, I guess.

GC forced a good number of TO's, but failed to handle the ball at critical times. GC had no problems penitrating-in fact had an easier time of it than against Ripon, but just couldn't get the ball in the hole for too long a time in two stretches. They missed at least 10 chippies  in the second half, and shot poorly from the ft line. Wow. Also put WC on the line too many times. One guy was 15-16 and another was 9-10. Grinnell never adjusted  to the type of calls being made and it hurt them in the second half. (BTW, the foul disparity should help eliminate some of the nonsense about 'homers' at Grinnell. )

This should be a real learning experience for the youngsters. I imagine Carroll and Larry will have similar plans (maybe not quite as efficient) especially on defense.

Grotberg continues to be a bright spot-easily the best guard on the floor-eliminating many of the mistakes made against BC and RC. I haven't seen any team take Paul out of his game like these guys did. Their style took away much of his defensive punch-might have had something to do with the overall height advantage-and kept him from getting too many open looks on the offenseive side. In fact, they defended against the treys in the second half quite well and for the first time this year, GC couldn't get the shots to fall off the penetration moves.

wartburg is a strong team, they were able to execute their game plan, and basically execute Grinnell as well. Are they top 15 caliber? I think so, they certainly have the size and mental toughness to make a run in the MWC. Very happy to report they have no intention of joining. :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on December 08, 2005, 09:16:31 am
Thanks Mr. Ypsi. As Johnny Carson would say, "I did not know that."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 08, 2005, 10:28:25 am
Tharp has a "goon squad"?  Now that is funny.  No, actually ridiculous.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 08, 2005, 12:32:24 pm
Hebeler is now the best shooter AND scorer in the MWC!

Sorry, couldn't help myself.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 08, 2005, 12:47:09 pm
Hebeler is now the best shooter AND scorer in the MWC!

Sorry, couldn't help myself. :D

there's a difference? lol  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 08, 2005, 02:15:47 pm
Maverick,

If all else fails, run em!  thats what i did best, run em! ;D

Schwannman,

Redlands for lack of a better term sucks.  They are like the really bad grinnell teams.  the "west coast system" is extremely limited b/c they dont have any talent.  the have one player (think atheltic scuba steve) and only one other player that i would even try to describe as a shooter.  The rest of the team (talent wise) might as well have been picked randomly from the student section prior to the game.  The game I saw (vs. currently 8-0 Chapman U.) they didnt even shoot the three ball.  Mainly b/c of the lack of "shooters" but, i would guess that redlands put up less than 30 treys.

Snydz,

Your grey ghost dont want to see the M-R titans.  I dont care if Orion is 15th or not i dont believe that is a game we should have lost, especially at home.  Im sure coach grant will get them righted for the next game. 

To all,

12 threes is amazing, hebeler is a very good "SCORER." i still would not classify him as a great shooter 8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 08, 2005, 02:53:28 pm
Maverick,

If all else fails, run em!  thats what i did best, run em! ;D

Schwannman,

Redlands for lack of a better term sucks.  They are like the really bad grinnell teams.  the "west coast system" is extremely limited b/c they dont have any talent.  the have one player (think atheltic scuba steve) and only one other player that i would even try to describe as a shooter.  The rest of the team (talent wise) might as well have been picked randomly from the student section prior to the game.  The game I saw (vs. currently 8-0 Chapman U.) they didnt even shoot the three ball.  Mainly b/c of the lack of "shooters" but, i would guess that redlands put up less than 30 treys.

Snydz,

Your grey ghost dont want to see the M-R titans.  I dont care if Orion is 15th or not i dont believe that is a game we should have lost, especially at home.  Im sure coach grant will get them righted for the next game. 

To all,

12 threes is amazing, hebeler is a very good "SCORER." i still would not classify him as a great shooter 8)

Smoov,

dont even get me started....but you still didnt answer my question on how far you are from Glendale, CA?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 08, 2005, 05:56:02 pm
sorry "dahammer" but I have previously stated that I have no problem with the occassional transfer.  I am pretty sure that Carroll is starting three right now!  I am not even going to acknowledge this Carroll hype. 
 
here's the equation

finishing in 4th place last year + losing Hickethier = Lawrence being a better team
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 08, 2005, 08:49:41 pm
Maverick,

If all else fails, run em!  thats what i did best, run em! ;D

Old Fighting Scot - We've been doing our fair share of running over the first few weeks.  But I guess we may have to raise that amount some if we don't start doing certain things the right way from now on.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 09, 2005, 05:04:53 am
here's the equation

finishing in 4th place last year + losing Hickethier = Lawrence being a better team

New equation:  Carroll barely beats Concordia.  Concordia is horrible.  I saw them play against Eau Claire, and believe me, Eau Claire is horrible too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 09, 2005, 08:24:38 am
Maverick,

If all else fails, run em!  thats what i did best, run em! ;D

Old Fighting Scot - We've been doing our fair share of running over the first few weeks.  But I guess we may have to raise that amount some if we don't start doing certain things the right way from now on.

Come on coach Mav...you have to know that the best way to get you rplayers to play is to put them through hell in practice.  Have them play one on one, two on two, three on three full court...therefore making alot of drills full court.  but anyways, did you get alot of drifting snow in IL??
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 09, 2005, 12:40:49 pm
OFS,

Exaggerations sometimes affect credibility...Redlands shot 54 treys in the Chapman game and made 19.  Don't get me wrong, your assessment may still hold water, but the numbers you threw out there (< 30 treys) were a tad bit off.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 09, 2005, 03:04:34 pm
you're right old school, our guys didn't play very consistently last night, got into some foul trouble, and didn't find a workable rhythm against concordia.  and you are also right, concordia is not very good.  but the guys found a way to win, and didn't get down when they weren't playing well.  for anyone that missed it, tosh won it in dramatic fashion.  johnson dribbled it down the sideline with 4.7 seconds left to go looking to hit drury in the corner, tosh's defender went to help out and james lobbed it up to tosh who hit the shot at the buzzer.  that makes two buzzer beating shots THIS WEEK at van male fieldhouse!  and you bet your ass i was at both of those games with bells and whistles on.  the girls game on monday ended with a sophmore phenom going coast to coast and hitting a jumper as time expired.  i like to think i had something to do with that one because i am on the team of "gym rats" that practices against the girls.  but...my point is that its one hell of a time to be a pioneer!  and not a damn hippie pioneer from the field of dreams back country.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on December 09, 2005, 03:15:24 pm
I am currently locked in my basement. My wife left earlier and won't be back until Sunday morning. All I have to do is check the internet and eat Doritos(strategically placed my me a couple weeks ago...hiding them from Edith). The point is I'm bored.


I missed you a couple weeks ago, jeffp...the lady and I made the game against Beloit but I wasn't feeling social. We ate at A and M in the morning. It smelled horrible and the waitresses were less than attractive, but the food was good and cheap. But I bet Saint's Rest is better.

I was just nervous about meeting you. Pretty intimidating. I mean, you're jeffp.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 09, 2005, 03:27:51 pm
OFS,

Exaggerations sometimes affect credibility...Redlands shot 54 treys in the Chapman game and made 19.  Don't get me wrong, your assessment may still hold water, but the numbers you threw out there (< 30 treys) were a tad bit off.

Redlands got blown out in that game, and i bet that 20 of the 57 threes were taken within the last 6-8 minutes of that game.  Tad bit off may assesment may have been about shots taken (sorry i wasnt taking stats in the bleachers nor did i ever look at a final boxscore) but not about the talent.  I am dead on their and you can just look at Redlands' record to back up my point there....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 09, 2005, 03:46:23 pm
OFS

Just for fun, let's take a look at the box score of that game:

8 - 0 Chapman (as you made a point to state their record earlier) led by only 12 at the half when Redlands only shot 33% in that half.  Chapman turned the ball over 26 times against this team that you say sucks and they only outrebounded Redlands by 5 total boards when most of the boards available are on their defensive end (aka best opportunity to get them).

Please don't misinterpret what I am saying.  Redlands is not a world beater by any means and their shooting has been less than up to par and Chapman is as good as anyone out here on the west.  I just find it interesting how you are willing to beat up a team that you said you have only seen 1.5 times...a team that has its 5 losses against teams that are a combined 24-8 overall.

I say these things respectfully because I have read so many of your insightful comments in the past that this just caught me a little off guard.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 09, 2005, 07:54:48 pm
GF68,

The Beloit game was last Friday, not a couple weeks ago. Next time wait until she leaves before you buy the Doritos and you won't have to hide them.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: carlsandburg on December 09, 2005, 10:18:27 pm
Knox loses at Franklin (IN) tonight, 85-64.

Take on Clarke (IA) tomorrow afternoon.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: the game on December 10, 2005, 02:09:02 am
Tough loss by BC to carthage. Good to see them comeback, but once again a BC team does not know how to win. U can't fight back to take the lead, then turn the ball over and allow carthage to take game to overtime. Certainly everyone knew they should of won the game. The comeback was for not.  The ingredients are there, but the question remains. Will  this team learn how to win. Unfortunantely no one on the roster has experienced winning on the college level.  Anyone know what the deal with D. Towns was?? only 2pts against carthage after starting season so well. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 10, 2005, 08:32:41 am
'The Roop' and GF68-
I guess if you are locked in the basement it just seems like a couple of weeks.

GF68- I am NOT intimidating and I'll beat the crap out of anyone that says I am! ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 10, 2005, 08:53:09 am
Grinnell takes on a resurgent NAIA II Grand View ranked 30th (according to their website) and proud victors against Simpson who "beat Loras who beat Whitewater who beat Stevens Point"(thanks for the quote, Boss!). They have a great transfer and several highly touted 1st years and should give Grinnell another great game in their candy-ass pre-conference schedule. I look forward to this one and hope/think the team will recover from the WC game. Hopefully everyone is healthy (Paul-blow your nose and stand on one foot without falling over!!!) and ready to go. dc will provide the score ASAP!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 10, 2005, 11:20:20 am
ahh...the 'ol six-degrees-of-Kevin Bacon analysis!   ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 10, 2005, 11:35:43 am
Sounds like the caffine is talking early today. LMAO.

Decaf in moderation can be OK !!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 10, 2005, 12:35:28 pm
Early my patoot! I've been up since Beloit! When did you get up?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 10, 2005, 12:59:50 pm
The game,
D. Towns has a case of bronchitis.  He couldn't breathe in the game, and felt like sh**.  Hopefully, he'll feel better tonight when the bucs take on Aurora.  The bucs will prosper if their seniors step up and score. The bucs really missed Towns the other night, it would've been a different game if he was feeling good.  Skelton did a nice job filling in though.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 10, 2005, 01:47:31 pm
Just relax Jeff, remember your excercises. Breath in New Roop Order, breath out blue state thinking. In New Roop Order, out blue state thinking................

But to answer your question I've been up since about 4:00. Made a suggestion around 8:00 that we should go out for breakfast, then waited the customary 3 hours for my dad to get ready to leave the house. Finally getting something to eat around 11:30.

Despite passing within a block of the bank on the way home, he had to get  home first before deciding he needed to make a special trip back. So I let him do it by himself. Bank trips are typically an hour and a half even though it's only a 5 minute drive each way. Lottery tickets and a minimum of two other "mystery stops" are required when going to the bank. Fortunately it's a 7:30 tip tonight so there shouldn't be a problem with making it on time.

The new stove should be here between 1 and 4 so I think that is a good time for me to go shirt hunting. "Yes mom, I know you bought a Jen Aire, but you bought it almost 23 years ago and they don't last forever". Christmas baking will be saved.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 10, 2005, 03:59:42 pm
Grinnell wins over Grand View, 137-110.  John G has another great game, and lots of solid defensive work. GV couldn't figure out how to beat the 3 pt game, but made an interesting attempt at mimicking GC toward the end. Didn't work....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 10, 2005, 07:13:35 pm
What a great game for the Damn Hippie Pioneers from the Field of Dreams Back Country! Grand View didn't play poorly at all-Stand is a manimal!-but the 'neers just plain put together one of the most complete games I have seen since Coach A has been here. They are capable of doing so many things, adjusting so many ways, inside, outside, and quite frankly straight through if necessary. We ain't big, but we sure are quick...to the ball, to the basket, to the defensive end...
I can't be too general too much longer and besides, you guys can all read the box so you are beginning to see what we are hiding from you! I just can't say enough about how well this team plays together. There will be days (Wartburg? Yikes!) and then there will be days, but this team is building into something special.
Paul had an amazing game playing against the likes of Strand (who frankly reminds me a bit of a bigger Chris Braier) and went 5-6 from treyland. Kennedy played another great game on defense and hit 2 clutch 3 pt shots. Schmidt has become an all around player, not just a shooter. Bobby and Jr recovered nicely from the Wartburg flu (as did the other 1st years) and played all out. Chamberlain is all confidence now and that could be huge. Trek and Toby played well as did Doug. What great hands Doug has developed!
Brock has changed his role completely and is doing a Choquette on everyone we play. Hats off to this kid for pulling it off so far.
John Grotberg is the real deal. Game after game he shows up bigtime at both ends. I don't think we have to be careful about saying how good he is anymore, because no matter what secrets we give away about his game no one is gonna be able to stop him anyway. OK, I'm still gonna keep a little bit quiet and let you all see for yourselves when the circus hits your town before I tell you everything I see from him. Win or lose, this kid is something to watch.
As I said in an earlier post, this is not the system you are used to seeing. It is more than capable, surprising, and way different this year.  You wll know what I mean when you see it in person.
So, following the logic from the earlier quote from the 'Boss'"-Bring on Simpson, Loras, Whitewater and yes, even  Point. We would be in every one of those games, I swear!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 11, 2005, 02:20:06 am
I'm just walking in the door after a 3 hour drive following Saturday nights game and I'm the first Beloit poster ??? That's unacceptable.

OK, fine. Trailing 77-0 at halftime, Beloit went on a 86-2 run in the second half to down Aurora 86-79. Great win against a team that basically ran them off the floor at their place last year.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on December 11, 2005, 02:22:03 am
Yo Roop, are you from Beloit or did you go to school there?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 11, 2005, 02:40:20 am
I'm from Beloit and did graduate from Beloit Memorial; so technically I did go to school there, just not Beloit College.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: augie_superfan on December 11, 2005, 03:54:38 am
Nice Roop...my fther and my uncles are all Beloit Memorial graduates and my grandma lives a few blocks from the Beloit College campus....small world
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on December 11, 2005, 10:50:24 am
sorry roop,
had to go have a few magaritas after the game and got home late.  Nice win by the bucs, showed how they can really play after the half.  If they eliminate silly turnovers (1st half) and spread the ball around, they could be a team to be reckoned with!!!  Whitey (assistant coach) does a great job with substitutions:)  they hit some big threes when needed most, and sunk the free-throws at the end.  Good win against a pretty talented Aurora team.  So its on to the beach in california, should be a great time. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 11, 2005, 11:38:48 am
OK, fine. Trailing 77-0 at halftime, Beloit went on a 86-2 run in the second half to down Aurora 86-79. Great win against a team that basically ran them off the floor at their place last year.

Well, actually it's not the same team... it's almost none of the same team. However, I suppose you can be happy that you beat a team that beat Wheaton by one pt.  :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 11, 2005, 12:44:11 pm
gobucs,

California should be a good trip. With Goucher off to an 0-8 start I think Beloit should win one at least out there. Haven't really learned anything about Vanguard, although in looking at their line up Beloit matches up well. The West Coast Chapter of the New Roop Order hasn't been to any games this year, some nonsense about work always getting in the way, so I have no scouting report informtion to add.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2005, 04:00:01 pm
I understand Goucher has a couple transfers coming in a the semester. Could take a while for them to get into form, or they could be ready to go right away. And I do not know who they are, sorry.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on December 11, 2005, 05:06:11 pm
Any word on the LU - Carthage game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: thevicar on December 11, 2005, 06:36:34 pm
Lawrence beats Carthage 78-65
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 12, 2005, 12:33:25 pm
Great game report on the LU game!  >:(  Come on Vikings fans, your boys are undefeated and ranked really high!  Carthage isn't that far away, so you can't tell me no one went down there!  Heck, I drove across the state to watch the Pointers play this weekend! 

Where's the game report?  Don't make me go over to the CCIW page.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 12:58:21 pm
OFS

Just for fun, let's take a look at the box score of that game:

8 - 0 Chapman (as you made a point to state their record earlier) led by only 12 at the half when Redlands only shot 33% in that half.  Chapman turned the ball over 26 times against this team that you say sucks and they only outrebounded Redlands by 5 total boards when most of the boards available are on their defensive end (aka best opportunity to get them).

Please don't misinterpret what I am saying.  Redlands is not a world beater by any means and their shooting has been less than up to par and Chapman is as good as anyone out here on the west.  I just find it interesting how you are willing to beat up a team that you said you have only seen 1.5 times...a team that has its 5 losses against teams that are a combined 24-8 overall.

I say these things respectfully because I have read so many of your insightful comments in the past that this just caught me a little off guard.

Dont look at who Redlands has lost to, look at who they have beat....  West Coast Baptist, Hope International and Golden State College.....  if that doesnt say a lot i dont know what does.

 i am sorry if i have offended anyone but Redlands seemed to be playin a system hybrid, attacking the rim and "shooting" not just penetrating and kickin out like the GOOD Pioneer teams.  Without a boxscore analysis it just seemed as if Redlands was ok with giving up layups, and trying to get them in return rather than trading two for three.  and i have to believe that this was directly reflected to the bulldogs coach not thinking he had/has the talent to "let the system work."

 54 threes for the system is not a lot.  i have played in game were the Grinnell system produced almost one hundred threes, and we turned it over 30+. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 12, 2005, 01:27:07 pm

Dont look at who Redlands has lost to, look at who they have beat.... West Coast Baptist, Hope International and Golden State College..... if that doesnt say a lot i dont know what does.


I often prefer to look at the entire picture...I have seen far to often when one tries to manipulate specifics to support their own point of view.  So I do think we should look at those wins...games that should have been won and were....as well as looking at the losses against pretty good teams.

Excellent point regarding the low number of 3's in the Chapman game being unsystem like....but I might want to attribute that to a good Chapman approach to the game rather than exclusively a poor Redlands System.  Even the good system teams you have referenced do run across a system buzzsaw every now and then...it just appears that you never played for one of them based on your reference.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 12, 2005, 01:37:27 pm
OFS- you might be surprised to see the Pioneers play this year-fewer treys and more penetration with layins if needed. My point is (and Jordis has stated it well already) that Redlands isn't shooting particularly well...yet. When the treys start dropping, they wll take more of 'em. No one runs the system exactly like GC does. The best versions adjust to the players on hand. Redlands is used to some of these same guys hitting like crazy and so far they just aren't producing. That doesn't make them awful or second rate system. It may just mean they haven't gelled yet. I don't get the comments about who they have beaten. They may be bottom feeders, but redlands didn't lose to them either. If you will remember, there are teams in the MWC who have had slow starts. That doesn't mean they finished slow ala Ripon 2 years ago. I do think you are a premature in your asessment, and that you are gonna need a few more Redlands games under your belt before you paint such a broad stripe.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on December 12, 2005, 02:47:02 pm
today is my birthday.  I finally have a birthday on a day that I don't have a final on or something major to do!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 03:09:02 pm
hold on....

the main point was, and always will be is that This years Redlands team is not any good.  and because they lack talent that is forcing them to run a system hybrid.  if i recall "the system" or any system for that matter is designed to win games against everyone, not just the worst teams in college basketball.  the good grinnell teams were very talented as well as very efficient in running the system.  the aforementioned redlands team only has ONE basketball player, and thus is not able to run the system effectively.  Because they can not run the system effectively, but continue to run it, they will lose a lot of games to good teams and will be able to beat a few terrible teams.  

For those that do not know a main goal of the system is to speed up opponents into taking shots quickly (a la easy layup or wide open three ball), turning the ball over, and creating fouls do to fatigue.  The system teams want you to shoot quickly and prefer layups so that they can match your attempts with 3 point attempts.  if i get 100 possesions, turn it over 20-30 times (a system goal), and only shoot 60 percent (or less, another system goal) from the field i would score i would score between 96 (high end) and 84 (low end).  You can add between 10-15 pts for ft's and teams are still only scoring 106 on the high end.  

Conversely if i am playing the system and i get 100 possessions  (actually would be more with +/- turnover ratio, see bottom), only turn it over 10-20 times (to's should be less b/c you are used to playing at this tempo) and lets just say i take 75 threes in my original 100 possessions; hitting 30% would give me 66 pts, 40% would give me 90pts.  add in 10-15 for free throws and plus 10-20 for buckets (probably layups) that are scored on the extra possessions "the system" creates and you have a team scoring between 90 (low end) and 125 (high end)  

If you are running a system "hybrid" your are not running "the system." the system is famous for creating turnovers and the three ball emphasis.  scoring a lot of points is not what makes the system......
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 03:09:59 pm
today is my birthday.  I finally have a birthday on a day that I don't have a final on or something major to do!!!

Nobody cares about your bday!!!!  Conversely, mine is next tuesday ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 03:20:13 pm
the pioneers have been shooting less threes for a few years now and that is directly attributed to their lack of talent in the recent years, more specifically their lack of shooters.  you can only play with the guys who come to your school, and the pioneers havent had very many "system" players recently....

i believe 98-99 was the last time they had an abundance of shooters, and 01 was the last time they had multiple "players." 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 12, 2005, 03:52:26 pm

the main point was, and always will be is that This years Redlands team is not any good.  and because they lack talent that is forcing them to run a system hybrid.  if i recall "the system" or any system for that matter is designed to win games against everyone, not just the worst teams in college basketball.  the good grinnell teams were very talented as well as very efficient in running the system.  the aforementioned redlands team only has ONE basketball player, and thus is not able to run the system effectively.  Because they can not run the system effectively, but continue to run it, they will lose a lot of games to good teams and will be able to beat a few terrible teams. 

For those that do not know a main goal of the system is to speed up opponents into taking shots quickly (a la easy layup or wide open three ball), turning the ball over, and creating fouls do to fatigue.  The system teams want you to shoot quickly and prefer layups so that they can match your attempts with 3 point attempts.  if i get 100 possesions, turn it over 20-30 times (a system goal), and only shoot 60 percent (or less, another system goal) from the field i would score i would score between 96 (high end) and 84 (low end).  You can add between 10-15 pts for ft's and teams are still only scoring 106 on the high end. 

Conversely if i am playing the system and i get 100 possessions  (actually would be more with +/- turnover ratio, see bottom), only turn it over 10-20 times (to's should be less b/c you are used to playing at this tempo) and lets just say i take 75 threes in my original 100 possessions; hitting 30% would give me 66 pts, 40% would give me 90pts.  add in 10-15 for free throws and plus 10-20 for buckets (probably layups) that are scored on the extra possessions "the system" creates and you have a team scoring between 90 (low end) and 125 (high end) 

If you are running a system "hybrid" your are not running "the system." the system is famous for creating turnovers and the three ball emphasis.  scoring a lot of points is not what makes the system......

OFS,

I am impressed with how hard you work to make such unfounded replies.  I am equally impressed with the understanding of the "System" you have yet based on earlier comments, you couldn't do anything against it.  It is interesting how riddled your alma mater's record books are with Grinnell's numbers (but I will concede, that applies to many schools).

Nonetheless, let's take a look at your facts for a moment.  First, I believe, if I understand Coach A's philosophy correctly (maybe JeffP can answer this better than I), the System was not designed to "win games against everyone".  The reality is that Coach A was trying to embody more of the D3 spirit by creating a competitive, PARTICIPATORY style of play...winning was never the premise.  Winning (especially against Monmouth) has just been a welcomed by-product.

You also are really doing a disservice to "those who don't know" when you try to describe the system.  Pace, creating a disparity in shots through turnovers and offensive rebounds and recognizing, given those first two elements, the value of a 3 for 2 mentality to the overall 40 minutes of the game.  There are other subtilties, but they may be far too advanced for you to understand.

So then, let's take a look at this season:

Grinnell is taking approximately 98 shots per game
Redlands is taking approximately 109 shots per game

Grinnell is taking approximately 61 3-point shots per game
Redlands is taking approximately 76 3-point shots per game

Grinnell is making approximately 22 3-point shots per game
Redlands is making approximately 22 3-point shots per game

Grinnell is making their opponents turn it over 29 times per game
Redlands is making their opponents turn it over 32 times per game

Grinnell is making 17 steals per game
Redlands is making 20 steals per game

.....maybe it is just me, but those do seem (less the percentage of 3's going in the hole) like very similar "SYSTEM"  teams to me.  But, I'm sure I'm missing something...and of course, you will probably let me know what that is...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 12, 2005, 04:31:58 pm
today is my birthday.  I finally have a birthday on a day that I don't have a final on or something major to do!!!

Snydz - Happy birthday buddy!

Now someone with the ability to do so needs to hit Snydz with a negative karma b-day present!  Ha! :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 12, 2005, 04:55:58 pm

JeffP is our resident system expert, but those numbers do seem to be indicative of solid play, although rebounds, expecially offensive rebounds would be another one I'd like to see before passing judgement.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 12, 2005, 05:10:55 pm

JeffP is our resident system expert, but those numbers do seem to be indicative of solid play, although rebounds, expecially offensive rebounds would be another one I'd like to see before passing judgement.

Thank you for the suggestion Hoops Fan...

Grinnell has grabbed 163 of the available 408 Offensive Rebounds (39+%)
Redlands has grabbed 237 of the available 553 Offensive Rebounds (40+%)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 05:45:00 pm
actually free throws is the most telling stat that i have not completely stated the importance of.  i would bet money that grinnell has won most games where they have shot more free throws.  and generally the FTa's range in the 40-50 range for both teams.

jordis, so you are saying that Coach A does not care about winning?  hmmm, that is interesting, i thought he wanted to play an exciting brand of ball that wins games and involves a whole team.  i didnt think he was in the business of just making sure everyone gets to play... 

Jordis you have made stellar arguments but stating that any coach in any sport at any level in AMERICA none the less doesnt care about winning is just ludicrous.  Also i am pretty sure that i have stated Grinnell has not had the amount of good shooters in the last three to 4 years as it has in years past.  i havent seen grinnell yet this year.  i have only seen redlands and i am comparing them to my memory of both good and bad grinnell teams.  Good grinnell teams rained threes unconsciously b/c they had the personnel to do so.  recent teams have had to rely more on defense, and penetration.  you are trying to make me out to be a system hater.  i love the "true system" style of play, it is great to watch (horrible to play against).  maybe i was just dissappointed when i saw redlands b/c of how bad they were.  last year they led the NCAA in scoring, and when i saw them it looked as if they would struggle to drop a hundo on third grade girls team from the sisters of the poor.  Just my assessment....

And why do you keep bringing up what MC did against the system, we were 3-5 in my four years, never winning at the old aircraft hanger (sometimes seeming like no coincidence).  and if you really want to see an anomally we beat grinnell at MC once 63-60, explain that one....  I can, can you?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 12, 2005, 05:46:51 pm
JR-
 just so you know i gave you a karma boost for your willingness to argue ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 12, 2005, 06:17:45 pm
OFS,

We all play to win, but I merely stated that winning was not the premise to the development of this style of play.

There a couple things about your posts that scare me.

just so you know i gave you a karma boost for your willingness to argue ;D

1. That you actually have a status worthy of dishing out Karma points, and,

i love the "true system" style of play, it is great to watch (horrible to play against).  maybe i was just dissappointed when i saw redlands b/c of how bad they were.  last year they led the NCAA in scoring, and when i saw them it looked as if they would struggle to drop a hundo on third grade girls team from the sisters of the poor.  Just my assessment....

2.  Your assessment about the ability to score points when Redlands has dropped 119+ (124.2/gm avg.) against 7 of their 8 opponents, including Chapman, Muskingum and Sisters of the Poor....

Bonus Point
And why do you keep bringing up what MC did against the system, we were 3-5 in my four years, never winning at the old aircraft hanger (sometimes seeming like no coincidence).

I should yield to your knowledge of poor programs, since I don't think you ever achieved a winning record in your four years at MC.

ps.....I enjoy the friendly banter too...thanks for the Karma point
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUVikings04 on December 12, 2005, 06:23:12 pm
OLD SCHOOL...My take on the Game.  Carthage is a very Athletic team.. they are the best 2-6 team that I have seen.  They have a really quick PG that can get to the basket at will and their big men are very talented.  Their problem is that they don't play as a Team.  They look like an NBA team where there is a lot of talent but not a lot of team play.  Carthage played a zone and for some reason LU was hesisitant to shoot the three.  I know that Hollinbeck & Falls would have been licking their chops if they saw that last year.  Once LU got comfortable, they hit some shots and pulled away in the end.  LU freshman, Kroeger is making a name for himself and he continues to impress me.  MacGillis led all scores with 17 and Braier had 16 boards.  Turning point of the game is when 5 subs were in the game with about 12 mins to go and maintained the lead while giving the starters a much needed rest....they were all in there for a good five mins.  They were the spark off that helped Increase LU lead over Carthage College.   A hard fought win on the road to a team that will definetely make some noise during CCIW conference play.

All aboard the LU Train!!!  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on December 12, 2005, 08:33:47 pm
Old School,

Since you laid down the challenge, I will pile on.  Lu 04 has it about right.  Carthage has played a very tough schedule, but  has has seemed to figure out how to loose close games despite a bunch of talent, both at the guard and big man positions.  They played a zone the whole game....not sure if that is always their style.  LU did not warm up from the 3 point line until the second half.  Freshman Kroeger is the real deal.  LU center also had a big game(7-8 from the field).  Braier and McGillis came to play as they always do. As LU 04 mentioned, the second 5 did a very nice job holding even during the second half until the 5 starters came back with 7 minutes to go.  It was the LU d that then was the difference as it usually is.

Carthage still confuses me in that they seem to get plenty of talent, but are lacking something on the floor.  Lu has kicked them twice now including on their home floor.

BTW,  I would not have thought it at the start of the season, but I believe this LU team has the potential to be the best they have had.  It is still early, but their depth seems to match the exceptional depth they have had the last couple of years.   They have lost a lot of good shooters the past two years, but seem to have largely(not entirely) replaced the losses.  They are probably stronger than they have been up front as the main guys are now upper-classmen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 13, 2005, 01:36:57 am
LUV04 and LU-Nut,

That's all I ask for!  :o  I figured you Viking fans would be more willing to post game reports since LU is pretty good and winning and all that.  At least, that seems to be the norm.  When "your" team loses, most posters are reluctant to post how their team lost!  There aren't many posters that give game reports on a regular basis and I'd actually like to hear from those Carroll fans since they seem to be pretty good.  There are Beloit, Ripon, Grinnell, Knox (I think!) and Lawrence posters, but not much, if any, from St. Norb's, or the Ill. schools.

Oh well...thanks for your belated input.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 13, 2005, 06:52:19 am
Sometimes you feel like an lu_nut, sometimes you don't.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 13, 2005, 07:01:56 am
The Carroll fans could report on games earlier but first they need to make bail because most local jails don't provide internet access.

I know the Outagamie Cty Jail puts extra staff on when Carroll comes to Appleton.  Just in case.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 13, 2005, 08:45:34 am
Man, that will teach me to go home early!

OFS-I can't believe some of what you say! Pre 2000, grinnell only had two or three shooters per team! Since they were so prolific it might have looked like there were ten or twelve, but no! During the early 2000's there were as many as nine competent 3 pt shot artists (some didn't score as much because they didn't have the other skills to compete against the top ten players for more time) and 3-6 GREAT shooters! Do you remember lines with the likes of Malinowski, Wood, S Nordland, Skarning, and Hocking from 00-01? or Norland, Duder(Z Carlson), Wood, Walsh, Petersen from 01-02? We're talking WHOLE LINES of great shooters and scorers, and I could keep naming players! Maybe that is why your team had trouble beating GC-you never could recognize the shooters! ;D

And Jordis doesn't need much help from me! He has about as good a handle on the system as anyone. And he is absolutely right! The system was developed to get more participation AND to help level the playing field! Jordis DID NOT suggest that system teams don't want to win! Nothing could be farther from the truth-either with system ball OR in Jordis' statement! What he said so eloquently was that most system coaches know that they won't be able to win every game. Talent is the great equalizer for non-system opponents, no question! Redlands is just about at the same point Grinnell was 7 or eight years in-roughly 50% w/l record with a few burps one way or the other. I suspect that Redlands is very close to a breakout year. It may not be this year or even next, but they are very close. What you perceive after witnessing a whopping game and 1/2 of Redlands ball as a bad hybrid is simply ludicrous at best. You may be winning points with those who don't pay attention, but you are losing miserably with your goofy pull-out-yer-bum arguements with those who understand the reality of how the system began, how it has evolved, and where it may (or may not) be headed at Redlands, at Grinnell, and amongst the approaching 100 high school, Juco and College teams playing or learning about it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 13, 2005, 09:01:00 am
OLD SCHOOL...My take on the Game.  Carthage is a very Athletic team.. they are the best 2-6 team that I have seen.  They have a really quick PG that can get to the basket at will and their big men are very talented.  Their problem is that they don't play as a Team.  They look like an NBA team where there is a lot of talent but not a lot of team play.  

I hope that you are right that they don't play as a team...

Carthage must have a thing for the MWC this year because they are next on Grinnell's schedule. I think most MWC fans will say that team play against the system is a requirement, so it will be interesting to see how GC does against Carthage on 1-4.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2005, 09:37:04 am

Wow, an uncharacteristic aggressive defense from Jeff.  I think a lot of that is the stress of having to cover the misconceptions portrayed in the posts of less eloquent system proponents.

I think Redlands is a solid system team, but that they might need a few more years of recruiting to get to the place that it has taken GC two decades to get to.  It is just a younger program.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 13, 2005, 10:32:02 am
titan,
clever comment...i got a welcomed chuckle out of it in the midst of finals.  i just shot two research papers (10 and 8 pages) out of my ass over the last 24 hours, while taking short study breaks to prepare for the essay final i had last night and the final i had this morning at 8am...i'm spent.  in response to your comment i believe that i may be the only carroll fan on the board and after the games i'm usually alittle...occupied.   and as for the occasional sleep over at the cop shop, nobody's counting.  make sure to let the fine men and women of the outagamie county police force know that i'm on my way and just dying to take a gander at their facilities :D!  but i will try to get on the posts sooner and tell you what i remember of the game.

ps.  titan, if i make a post from jail, you owe me $50, you'd be suprised at the little ammenities they allow you when you are a regular ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 13, 2005, 10:43:22 am
Thanks, Hoops. You summed up in a few words what needed to be said.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 13, 2005, 11:17:36 am
Nicely played wwallacecc!

A karma point for the response and surviving the finals!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: lu_nut on December 13, 2005, 04:27:09 pm
old school

Just to be balanced, I promise to post after LU's first loss.  I think the conference is strong enough, that there will be an LU loss at some point.  They start a heck of a 5 game stretch on 1/7 with ripon.  It includes ripon, carroll, grinnell, lake forest and beloit(road). 

nut
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 13, 2005, 04:50:04 pm
wwallacecc:

If you call me from jail, and can prove that charges have been filed, I am good for the $50. 

Titan2000
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LUVikings04 on December 13, 2005, 05:27:53 pm
LU Creeping its way up the Top 25... :o.  They are now # 8 in the Nation.  The target in their back just got a little bigger.  Hope they have a good trip out in Cali and come back determined to win a 3 peat....


All Aboard LU Train
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 13, 2005, 06:10:40 pm
I think they have had that target on their back for 3 years now!!!

It's like the last of the bulls dynasty (2nd 3peat).  It's all great and happy right now, but you just know there's no more championships for a while after Braier leaves :(


115 days until Braier (and MaGillis) are no more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 13, 2005, 06:24:54 pm
While I wish Braier would stay forever, I believe that LU will remain very competitive in the MWC.......everyone wants to talk about the "System", well LU has a system too...Just Win Baby.

I can almost see Asst. Coach Jo Jo Depagter, wearing a white jumpsuit ala Al Davis, hair slicked back, stating clearly to the mom of a recruit,  "We'll make your son a star!"  You know that's what she wants to hear and Tharp and Co. deliver.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 13, 2005, 07:52:03 pm
Titan,

You've got yourself a deal!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 13, 2005, 11:25:03 pm
Just back from a long conference in Chicago and trying to catch up on the board.  NIce to see my Karma went in the positive direction while I was off the board.  When is my next conference??   :D

Jeff, I saw a couple of your contemporaries at the conference.  Does anyone from Grinnell have a decent haircut?  Ha ha!

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 14, 2005, 01:07:33 am
Just back from a long conference in Chicago and trying to catch up on the board.  NIce to see my Karma went in the positive direction while I was off the board.  When is my next conference??   :D

Jeff, I saw a couple of your contemporaries at the conference.  Does anyone from Grinnell have a decent haircut?  Ha ha!



Regarding the decent haircut question...

"Negative, ghost rider, the pattern is full." :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 14, 2005, 07:58:07 am
Scottie and Maverick-

I may be the only one. SF86 claims to not have mcuh hair left, dc's hair is way too short, etc., but I would like to know who you met. Development type folks? If so, the haircuts are the least of their worries! :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 14, 2005, 08:15:02 am
Scottie and Maverick-

I may be the only one. SF86 claims to not have mcuh hair left, dc's hair is way too short, etc., but I would like to know who you met. Development type folks? If so, the haircuts are the least of their worries! :o

Hey! I said it was going back! Not gone!  ;)

Actually, I just this week took the clippers out and did the buzz cut, so technically you are correct. Still...

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: viking68 on December 14, 2005, 06:10:31 pm
115 days until Braier (and MaGillis) are no more!!!

I know this topic was talked to death a few weeks ago. While I agree that Braier has been a dominant force for LU and the Vikes will probably take a bit of a dip next year, I think their recent success has moved them into the "re-loading" rather than "re-building" mode.

Obviously we will see how he does next season without two strong seniors there, but I have been really impressed with Kroeger. He has put up some good numbers as a freshman and looked pretty good in their exhibition against Wisconsin (the only game I have actually seen this year).

The team will definitely have a different character next season with Braier and MacGillis gone. It seems like their strength will be at the guards with Rosenblatt and Kroeger rather than the forwards (Braier & MacGillis), but I still think they will be a strong team.

But, for the time being, I'll enjoy the run and what I hope is a 3rd straight MWC title!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 14, 2005, 10:49:34 pm
JeffP - Yes you are correct.  I also met your former VP, Todd.  I very nice young man. 

Unfortunately, I didn't have time to catch the theatre scene, starring That Girl. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 15, 2005, 03:11:40 am
I long for July
the board moves much faster then
resume the season
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 15, 2005, 08:05:37 am
Scottie-
Teri and Neil too? No wonder the decibel and dumbell level was so low here for a few days! Todd is a great fellow. Can't beleive HE was the one forced out. Directors always get the blame, I guess.

Monmouth 41
Princeton 21

Bring on the real Monmouth and ANYONE but Princeton! :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 11:18:49 am
JeffP you cant be serious...

Just because you shoot a lot does not make you a great shooter.  Skarning, wood, malinowski.. great shooters are you serious?  skarning and wood alone rarely took a shot outside of 15 feet.  im not going to break down every grinnell game i ever played in, but i will tell you that the only year we said dont leave anybody was 98-99 and generally the years after that there were a handful of guys we worried about "hurting us from three."  if a kid was gonna shoot 2-11 it wasnt really in our game plan to worry about his excellent three point artistry.  when MC loss during my time it was b/c we missed layups and free throws, when we won it was because we shot 75% from the field and 90% from the line, i can only think of one time when GC really "lit us up."  watching from the stands and playing are two very different things. 

all of this started b/c i said redlands sucks and they are not really playing "the system."  Redlands is currently 3-6 and none of their losses have been close.  On the Sciac board RU has been described as an automatic win and a team that should be kicked out of the Sciac, by people who i assume have seen them play more than i have.  Gang up and try to argue me down if you wish, but the proof is in the pudding. 
i thought I was complimenting GC by saying Redlands' style of play does not resemble what i would call the system, guess not.  GC is playing well and Redlands isnt but it sounds like GC wants to be associated with them, so for jeff p and jordis, GC and Redlands are exactly the same  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 11:34:55 am
OFS,

Your ability to exaggerate is overwhelming.  Redlands is not 3-6 and I challenge you to produce one statement from the SCIAC board that is asking them to "be kicked out of the league".

watching from the stands and playing are two very different things.


The funny part of this quote is that for most of your games in college, the only difference for you was about one row, since you really didn't see the floor too often.

I applaud your track and field credentials, but basketball was not your claim to fame.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 12:06:40 pm
damn jordis, now you are saying i couldnt play???

yet another idiotic statement.  So what is RU's record Mr. Internet Surfer, you seem to be good in diggin up facts.... Please let me know how off i am in assessing Ru's record. (what you dont want to challenge my automatic win statement?) i believe they were 5-9 last year in conference, good thing everyone got to play though, since that is what is important.....

i am now docking you karma point!!!

FYI- i never even stepped on a track til my sophmore year in college.  In h.s i was a very good bball player, in college i just didnt fit "the system" (you have to laugh at that one)i guess....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 15, 2005, 12:09:13 pm
OFS,

Wood not shooting outside of 15 ft?  Maybe he never did that against Monmouth, but he took 3's against Ripon, and he could hit them... Maybe he wasn't a "shooter" and more of a "scorer" but he still was a big threat from beyond the arc.  Yes the majority of Wood's points were inside the arc, but you would have to guard the 3-ball on him too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 12:12:42 pm
early, thank you for disagreeing and then agreeing.  You are the man!!

Wood was a baller, very hard to defend (especially in the system- i love saying that), but shooting the three was not his role, penetrate and cause havoc in the middle, that is what his role was....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 12:21:27 pm
OFS,

I didn't say you couldn't play...I just said you DIDN'T play very often...in our minds, we can all ball it up...funny how the coach is always wrong somehow.

And, if 5-9 resulted in dismissal from the conference, Monmouth would have been booted and rebooted about every year you 'played' (I use that term loosely).

Love,

Jordis
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 12:35:10 pm
once again, you are wrong.  never did i say the coach had anything to do with me not playing.  i said i didnt fit the system. 

MC hasnt been very good in a while, never did i say they have.  once again this all started with me saying redlands sucks, which after all your ranting, they do indeed still suck...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 12:40:01 pm
OFS,

Still friends????????

JR
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 12:43:33 pm
JR,

Tis the Holiday Season so i have love for everyone.  Also i would like to add, I would have loved playing in the system, and maybe i am so hard on redlands b/c they didnt try to recruit me and i was basically in their backyard... JERKS!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 15, 2005, 12:44:59 pm
JeffP - It was actually a Richard C. (with the beard) and a Karen?  They were grant writin' folks.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 12:50:21 pm
OFS...

Wow, bro, not getting recruited by a team that "sucks", that has to be hard.  There must have a been a logical reason why they didn't recruit you...I wonder what it could have been?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 01:04:39 pm
It still hurts, haha.  Seriously they probably thought i was going to receive a scholie or that i would end up at a juco like everyone else in the ie....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 01:07:25 pm
That must be it...so many kids come out of a small Catholic high school in Riverside, who traditionally hasn't had much success, and get scholarships, so I can see why they would think that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 01:16:10 pm
when they are the best team in the county ppl start to notice....

especially when the backourt (socal hoops said maybe best in area) is imported from a Moval team that produced three D1 bball (Michigan Loyola and Texas A&M) products, one d1 football player and a d2 player of the year that is now in the "L," just a year before......   ;D 

and the small catholic h.s. had a player gettin attention from a lot mid majors (won an NAIA national title at Concordia), a current NFL player (scored td on MNF w/niners this year)and two others that played major D1 football, CSU and Army... meaning not your average small catholic school.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 01:24:20 pm

and the small catholic h.s. had a player gettin attention from a lot mid majors (won an NAIA national title at Concordia), a current NFL player (scored td on MNF w/niners this year)and two others that played major D1 football, CSU and Army... meaning not your average small catholic school.

...meaning not your average "individuals" at your small catholic school...and you don't get talent by association.  While they may have been good, that doesn't mean that you were.

There were many other kids that played with LeBron James in high school, but I think the only thing we call them now is "entourage"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 01:26:25 pm
http://www.socalhoops.tierranet.com/archive/prepnotes/Feb98/riv211b.htm

you are correct. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 01:43:20 pm
Let's shed a little light on this link you have provided, shall we:

First of all, that is not So Cal Hoops calling you "one of the best teams in the county", it is a reprint of the local paper in your area, The Press Enterprise.  And we all know how unbias local ink can be.  Plus, saying that you have a chance to win the Skyline League (a mediocre league at best) does not instantly elevate you to one of the county's best, a county, I might add, that includes the likes of Riverside Poly, JW North, Centennial (Corona), MLK, Ramona, and others...all of which are in an entirely higher place than Notre Dame will ever be.

CJ, I'm just giving you a hard time for the fun of it.  But, let's be real for a second, you were just a maybe slightly better than average, small high school player with speed, playing in a less than average talent league that allowed your team to elevate the W's on the win/loss record.  You went to a midwest D3 and played some minor minutes and got a good education.  As you have said before, this all started because you said Redlands sucks.  They may suck, but I just thought it would be fun to challenge your credentials to say so...especially after seeing them once and now learning that you are bitter about them not recruiting you.  Your credibility on both boards has been challenged so I just couldn't let your 'premature' assessment stand.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 02:00:57 pm
bitter.. no.  didnt even know redlands existed when i was in high school.  King (the only county team to win a title ever) did not exist when i was in school. 
Historically you are correct about the other teams in the county, but that year Notre Dame was the best, we beat ramona in the chip of the Press enterprise (county christmas tourney), corona centennial (featuring washington's jamal williams)won the consolation bracket.  Murrieta Valley, featuring future pac-10 defensive player of the year (pretty sure) Brian Weathers, got ran by the lowly catholic school team.  Riverside Arlington had jimmy miggins (pepperdine) (county POY)that year, they beat us at the buzzer in a game we were up by 20 in.  i think jimmy had 35, 25 and 8 or something ridiculous.  Poly hasnt really been dominant since mr. miller was there and North was in between dominant teams.  We also beat long beach jordan and Venice.  Notre Dame (small and catholic) was the best team in the city that year.  period...  The second best team that year was probably la sierra (you failed to mention them) and we beat them by 15 in a preseason game. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 15, 2005, 02:47:26 pm
Grinnell High School finished 4th(losing to the eventual State champ in the semi)  in the state my sophmore year and 8th (losing to the eventual state champ, a team we had beaten twice in the regular season) my senior year. It sounds like i had as much to do with our victories as you did in yours according to JR's research!

Research is really the key to making good arguements that people will listen to here. Your statements about Wood, Malinowski et al aren't doing what was left of your credibility much good, my friend. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 15, 2005, 02:48:45 pm
BTW-i sat 3 rows behind the bench both of those games! :D ;) :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 15, 2005, 02:51:33 pm
Scottie-
Richard C and Karen are both life long friends and not to be disparaged incidentally as my post almost kinda did. great grant writers, both, and both with wicked hair!
Teri and Niel on the other hand... ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 02:57:50 pm
Grinnell High School finished 4th(losing to the eventual State champ in the semi)  in the state my sophmore year and 8th (losing to the eventual state champ, a team we had beaten twice in the regular season) my senior year. It sounds like i had as much to do with our victories as you did in yours according to JR's research!

Research is really the key to making good arguements that people will listen to here. Your statements about Wood, Malinowski et al aren't doing what was left of your credibility much good, my friend. ;D

Are you serious???  i believe i showed he needed to do at the least bit, a lil more research via my last post.

Me saying wood was a baller and very hard to guard (he was MVP wasnt he) takes away from my credibility?? where do you come up with this stuff.  JeffP, once again it seems as if you are bashing me for complimenting Grinnell, there's gratitude for ya...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 15, 2005, 03:08:35 pm
According to D3hoops, Redlands is 3-5, but isn't hard to say a team sucks and should be thrown out of a league when Cal Tech is in the same league?!?! ???

Redlands and their version of the system seem as popular as Grinnell is for many MWC fans. They've been bottom half of their conference the last couple years, but they're still going to beat a couple of the middle rung teams. Does that constitute 'sucking"? I doubt it. Cal Tech defines the term for that league (and for all of d3hoops!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 15, 2005, 03:29:05 pm
Speaking of Cal Tech read the write up the bball teams gets on their own website. It's a hoot!

http://www.athletics.caltech.edu/sports/mbb/mbb.html
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 15, 2005, 03:46:56 pm
JeffP - Are we still allowed to post up on this board?   :)

You'll be happy to know that I dropped your name to both Richard and Karen (and also Todd, who mentioned something to me about Hilary wanting to get in my line of work).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 15, 2005, 04:00:59 pm
OFS-you might want to read your own post half way down page 63. Then re read it. Then read it again and tell me how you get from there to where you are in your arguement now. I can't really call what you do dancin' on thin ice when you are already in up to your neck. As I mentioned before, maybe you lost to GC 5 times because you didn't keep track of the so-called 2-11 shooters.

So nice of  you to be nice to Grinnell, though.




OK, Scottie, I think we can talk here again. Hilary would be a natural! That is quite a group you met!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 15, 2005, 04:11:52 pm
I'm not really sure this has anything to do with the you suck, no you suck argument, but ED BRANDS WAS THE MAN!!! That guy could light it up.

I just felt like posting and spelling EDDIE BRANDS NAME
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on December 15, 2005, 04:20:35 pm
Long time reader first time poster.  It seems like it is going to be another interesting year in the MWC.  I am a Carroll fan and a member of the rowdy mob that is lead by William Wallace (I would have that 50 bucks hands when CC comes to town Titan2000)  It should be an interesting matchup Sat between Carroll and UWO.  Oshkosh is stuggling and Carroll is tought to beat at the Pio dome.  As for the league it seems it should be a tight race once again.  Grinnel is improved, LU is tough again, Ripon is always good, and MC talks a good game.  I am looking forward the the confrence season to get going again.

Carroll Basketball in 2005-06 (pretty stupid isn't is MC)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 04:21:13 pm
Research is really the key to making good arguements that people will listen to here. Your statements about Wood, Malinowski et al aren't doing what was left of your credibility much good, my friend. ;D

Are you serious???  i believe i showed he needed to do at the least bit, a lil more research via my last post.


A post from you, Mr. OFS, has so little representation of truth that it hardly challenges my need to research more.  In fact, most, if not all, of the so-called "facts" you have EVER cited have been so over-exaggerated or even manufactured in your own mind that your credibility is next to none.  However, I am impressed with how great you think you are.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 04:33:09 pm
Jordis must have run out of "Facts" about me.

JeffP you are reaching, stop trying to pick a fight, im not interested. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 04:35:53 pm
There just are NOT that many facts about you...doesn't that tell you something???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 04:41:58 pm
tells me you must like me, to be taking the time to get to know me....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 04:43:48 pm
I'm a huge fiction writer buff
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 05:13:10 pm
Mr. Watkins,

I assume you are out in cali.  you should come to the CU vs. Oxy game on saturday, it should be a good one.  I can bring some old newspaper clippings, and we can talk about west coast vs. midwest bball.  it will be fun ;D

also if you still like to get up and down, i would invite you to come to the rec center in Moval.  there is normally pretty good run sunday mornings (7am) but sometimes guys get a little dicey...

whatdya think?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on December 15, 2005, 05:19:16 pm
I think Jordis Rocks and Old Fighting Scott should go have cyber sex elsewhere.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 15, 2005, 05:33:24 pm
LU 05...wow, you took that a whole other level...but I'll think I'll pass...

OFS...thanks, but no thanks...

To the rest of the MWC board people...sorry we took up so much space...consider this my last entry on the matter.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on December 15, 2005, 05:37:57 pm
The fighting scots will be playing in Aruba this winter, it is a great trip, anyone else from the MWC going anywhere fun????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on December 15, 2005, 05:57:02 pm
I think maybe we should go back to talking about my short hair and JeffP's ponytail...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 15, 2005, 06:36:52 pm
Well, I agree with at least two people on this board - LU05 and mwc4life - surely there's a better place for jr & ofs to flirt w/ one another (this is the MIDWEST conf., remember?).  And I don't know that it was a privilege to play against him, but Brands was a flat-out, stare-you-down baller.  But don't forget Dieckman(sp?), either, mwc4life.

Those of you younger than 30 or so won't remember Diekman or Brands, but they weren't the typical GC player we're used to seeing now.  Either one could rise up from anywhere and kill you.  I actually saw both of them shoot from the volleyball spike line during a game - it was insane.

Which leads to my question:  If you could have one guy win a game for you ON HIS OWN, who would it be?  There are nice players in the MWC, but if I want to give the ball to one guy at the end of the game and clear out, who would I give it to? 

From the teams I've seen:

MC - Hebeler
RC - Johnson
BC - ?  Not Hinz; I think someone needs to get him the ball down low - he can't create his own shot.

Others?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 15, 2005, 09:27:32 pm
Nice to see Old Fighting Scot has done it again.  First it was he and Snydz turning the football board into their own personal instant messaging service a few weeks ago...now it's him and Jordis Rocks doing the same thing on the basketball board! ;)  Gotta agree with fightingscots13 though; go about your chatting some other way--maybe find out each other's instant messenger screen names and you can converse all day long. :D

Fighting Scots in 2005-2006! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 16, 2005, 12:14:58 am
I think there also needs to be a ban on screen names with 68 or 86 in them.

FYI Maverick. Cougar and Merlin enjoyed the ghostrider comment from the other day so you get 1 karma point.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 16, 2005, 01:07:57 am
Speaking of Cal Tech read the write up the bball teams gets on their own website. It's a hoot!

Cal Tech Basketball (http://www.athletics.caltech.edu/sports/mbb/mbb.html)


One irony is that seniors Ivy, Carlson, and Scott Davies (San Diego, CA) do not have formal high school varsity experience yet they have improved and proved to be very capable intercollegiate players.

Wow.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 16, 2005, 01:34:31 am
One more reason to root for Caltech, the ultimate underdog of intercollegiate athletics: The Techers have a senior guard named Day Ivy. With a name like that, he's gotta be a Cubs fan.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 16, 2005, 01:47:11 am
Based on Old Schools copy and paste, I get the impression that Caltechs English Department might be the underdog of academics as well.

1st rule of Caltechs English Department: Don't talk about Caltechs English Department.

2nd Rule of Caltechs English Department: Still under review because previous rules may have been over or under stated. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 16, 2005, 08:08:16 am
fightingscots13-

For GC- Steve Wood.
Brand would be a close 2nd, but Wood just refuseed to lose close ballgames.
2 examples:
Grinnell 150
Lawrence 149 3OT  Wood literally carries the team for 3 overtimes

Grinnell 108
Knox 105   Wood sinks 30 ft shot at buzzer to win last game at Old Darby Gym

Probably not the overall player that Brand was, but he was the game winner too many times.
Now, we have a 1st year that has the same attitude about Gball wins. We'll see how he develops.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: eric on December 16, 2005, 09:13:48 am
I'm biased because my time at Grinnell overlapped with Brands and Clement rather than Wood and I only saw Wood in person 3 times, but I remember Brands destroying Ripon to win the conference title and that's why I'd have to take him. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: digs on December 16, 2005, 10:50:05 am
Game on the line who do I give the ball to?  Current MWC players Braier.   Excellent passer and scorer and a winner, he will get the bucket or the ball to the open guy.


As far as former Grinnell guys, Brands was the best shooter, but Wood is the winner, he would get it done.  (Deikman was the best bad shot shooter I've ever seen.  The guy would take 15 footers falling backwards with three guys on him--everybody in the gym going "why did he take that shot"--and he would make it.  Honestly the shots he took were the kinds of shots that coaches yell at their players (sometimes bench them) for taking and he would take and make 10 of 15 of these per game.)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 16, 2005, 11:02:39 am
I would have to agree with Digs....Braier would either draw a foul, or hit the open man for an easy bucket or whatever it was, it would be the right decision.

I saw Wood play a lot more then i saw Brands play, but I did see that conference tourney championship game when Brand scored like 63 points on Ripon.  It was the most unbelievable game, individually, that i have ever witnessed in a D3 game.  Honestly, Ripon has atleast two people on him and sometimes three and he would pull up and hit shots from anywhere over the half-court line.  Now i don't know if that was just a fluke or whatever, but from what I have heard, Brands is a hell of a player.  This was probably around the time when the "system" wasn't as good as it is (or developed) now so I give the Leg up to Brands (just an assumption)...you say Steve Wood was a winner, which he was, but so was Brands...on the biggest stage in the MWC. 

By the way, the Ripon team Brands lit up was a very very good team (I think one of their best).  I might be mistaken, but did Ripon get an at-large bid that year?  I just know they had a great team that Grinnell beat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on December 16, 2005, 01:17:56 pm
Fightingscots13-

I'm not sure why you wouldn't take Hinz for the "must have" at the end of a game.  The reason you don't think he can create his own shot is because that isn't part of their offense.  Hinz actually has very good ball handling skills.  And from personal experience, he can make others look incredibly stupid.  If you give him the ball he will put it in the hoop, or at least get to the line.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 16, 2005, 02:04:05 pm
T-Bird Teacher~

From my personal experience I know Hinz actually does have some pretty good ball handling skills.  During warm-ups you can really see him handling the ball.  But there's a difference between being able to handle the ball in practice and drills compared to an actual game with aggressive/quick guards helping. 

"And from personal experience, he can make others look incredibly stupid.  If you give him the ball he will put it in the hoop, or at least get to the line. "

If this is the case, then why doesn't Hinz take the other BIGS off the dribble more often (from wing extended)?  I think what FightingScot13 is saying is that Hinz needs other people to get him the ball (posting up), to me most effective.  I remember Scottie Landish actually had some good handles...he handled the ball everyday in practice, but could never transfer it to game situations...either that or he never tried.

With all that being said, I would still take Hinz as the best option at the end of the game whether his back was to the basket or facing it....I really don't know who else they could go to in that situation besides Towns.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: fightingscots13 on December 16, 2005, 02:53:41 pm
My original post was meant for more "end of the game" situations - that's why I couldn't see Hinz at the top of the key or on the wing and going one-on-one and creating on his own.  I realize he can score a number of different ways, though.

With that being said, would the LU posters put Braier out there?  I didn't see him doing much ball-handling in the game at MC last year on the point or the wing - would the ball be in someone else's hands?

Just curious....

Great point about Diekman, digs.  He threw up stuff you wouldn't even try in a game of HORSE.

Also,
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 16, 2005, 03:31:41 pm
I'm assuming we are only going with current players for the "one shot" senario. 
I would also add Bo Johnson here.  Larry fans might remember that name (a la game winner at RC)  He can hit shots from all over, and has the ability to create or come off screens.

T-Bird, I have to agree with mwc4life.  I don't doubt Hinz's ability to dribble, but where is it?  If I could just majically put the ball in someone's hands, I would give the ball to Hinz, but it takes a guy to give it to him.
HOWEVER, I believe fightingscotts13 did say who would you give the ball to "on his own and win the game".....so I would include Hinz in that category.
Having said that......

† :)IF YOU DON'T KNOW.....GO TO BO!!† †;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: T-Bird Teacher on December 16, 2005, 04:17:03 pm
All very good points about Hinz.  As far as MWC4life, I'm not sure why he doesn't take the BIGS from the wing.  My guess is since he has other players that can score on the team, he isn't trying to do it all himself.  But I can't answer that.  I could ask him if you want????  I do however think he is the best person to have the ball at the end.  Maybe not to score, rather than create.  If he has the ball at the end of the game you know damn well he's going to get double if not triple teamed, therefore he will be able to find the open guy.  I'm just not sure who else could take the final shot for them???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 16, 2005, 04:18:10 pm
good to see you finally getting in on the action falco!  for those of you who do not know, falco is a distinguished colleague of mine and a pretty good buddy as well.  hopefully he can get some of the scores posted for you guys while i recover.  in his prime, falco could flush the hooch with the best of them, but upon graduation he has entered the real world where he sits in a cubicle sluffing off TPS reports and peruses d3hoops.com.  

tomorrow's matchup against UW-zero will be interesting.  what can i say...they have talent, but haven't been playing as a complete unit like carroll has, that's where i believe we've got the edge.  on to gibby, his 7 foot plus frame always causes matchup difficulty, but if we can get him into foul trouble and get on him a bit he'll be a non-factor.  he's a friend of mine and a hell of a guy to party with, but tomorrow is business.  carroll wins by 6.

wallace...out...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 16, 2005, 04:47:28 pm
I would put Steve Cool in the list of go-to players, but he'll never be back on this board to read it anyway... 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: falco1610 on December 16, 2005, 05:31:58 pm
I finished my TPS reports early so I thought I would make another post and wish Carroll luck tomorrow agains UWO.  This is a big statement game for Carroll to prove they are a top 25 caliber team, I believe they are. I am sorry to say I won't be in attendence so Wallace better have one for me and help send oshkosh home with a loss.  Carroll by 3.     
     
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 16, 2005, 07:30:46 pm
Wallace:

Remember, you are playing Oshkosh so this is Carroll's Super Bowl.   You need to prepare accordingly.  ::)


 First, make sure your college radio station does a 3 hour pregame show.  Then, just before gametime, blow off a bunch of fireworks so the smoke hovers for the first 10 minutes of the game. :P

Now halftime--I suggest you bring Janet Jackson to Carroll.  WTF, it won't be on national TV.  See if you can get a freshman ladies lingerie hoops game going at halftime if Janet is too busy visiting her brother in Malta to make it to Waukesha.

After you win the Super Bowl, make sure you have your most valuable player tell the radio guy that he is going to.....the Milwaukee Public Museum.   I hear there is a pile of missing cash there and he is going to see if he can find it. ;D

Good luck. ;)

Titan2000

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 17, 2005, 04:09:42 am
falco, you're dead to me....not really you're still my brother.  but just to let you know...me and kbanya30, a poster soon to debut have been "preparing" all night for the game tomorrow, including drunk dialing his dad and telling him we had been taken into custody for stealing cars and setting houses on fire!  i cannot belive your michael bolton ass willl not be there but i'm pretty sure you have a good excuse. 

as for this being carrroll's super bowl, shut up you little beehotch.   you don't know a  damn thing about this team or what  we are capable of!  i've got banya inline to do some  posting during halftime, because his dorm room (yeah, he lives in the god-forsaken dorms) is close to the field house.   we'll be in touch then...

wallace.........out
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 17, 2005, 04:14:06 am
ps...

carroll's radio station is dead to me, they cancelled their highest rated show EVER, the weekend soundtrack, because we had too much questionable content, and...one of the main characters in the milwaukee public museum contraversy is a 2nd cousin of mine, though i could give a flying you know waht cuz i don't know him.

wallace........out
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 17, 2005, 07:34:12 am
Wallace:

Tell that radio station to do a Johnny Cash weekend and all will be healed.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 17, 2005, 06:10:35 pm
I think there also needs to be a ban on screen names with 68 or 86 in them.

FYI Maverick. Cougar and Merlin enjoyed the ghostrider comment from the other day so you get 1 karma point.

Roop - Thanks buddy!  It's much appreciated and finally got my karma back to an even 0...just happy to be out of the negatives for now! :)

Loyola beat Lake Forest today, 87-72.  And as titanQ said, they were only down 4 at the half--pretty respectable game for the Foresters I think.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 17, 2005, 07:44:49 pm
titan,

WCCX is all about playing "alternative music that doesn't get played in main stream radio".... at least that is what they told me and a  couple football team buddies that would rather play ac/dc, queen, aerosmith, kiss, and the like...instead of franz ferdinand or some garage band from gary, indiana.  so, i can imagine that a weekend of the man in black will not be on the docket any time soon, but i will put them in a ring of fire for being a bunch of counter-culture queers.

wallace........gotta go to hte game
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 17, 2005, 08:35:01 pm
I think that College Radios days are numbered now that there are satellite radio services offering equally questionable content. Podcasting is a far more cost effective way to go.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on December 17, 2005, 10:15:38 pm
Carroll 69 UWO 70..Carroll played a tough game and have nothing to be ashamed of.  They were leading the whole game and a 3 point shot at the end left them with .09 left to try and score.   Nice job boys Drury POY next year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 18, 2005, 02:43:21 am
9 tenths, or 9 seconds?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: dansand on December 18, 2005, 09:36:14 am
Looks like 9 hundredths of a second to me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on December 18, 2005, 11:13:35 am
.9 sorry I was a little drunk last night, not even sure what all I was saying
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 19, 2005, 09:13:56 am
Any one have word on how Ripon is doing out in Hawaii?  I looked (very briefly) on the internet and couldn't find scores.....Perhaps a google search on the Hoop N Surf bball tournament.  Huh thanks for your help. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 19, 2005, 10:10:10 am
Maybe the results are on the Pick Em board, since they're so interested in non-conference games!  ha ha
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 19, 2005, 11:27:50 am

OK Jeff its a done deal.  On the calendar.  No conflicts.  It's set.  Barring an extremely severe winter storm I will make my first pilgrimage to Darby for the game vs Lawrence January 28th.  Its the satruday between two weeks of intesive class ( 4 hours a day).  I can't think of a better way to relax than a drive through rural Missouri and Southern Iowa.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 19, 2005, 11:57:19 am
allright Hoops Fan! We shall see you then. Hopefully the teaqm can produce some semblance of system ball against the 9th ranked team in the Country! Looks like another board celebrity will make a return trip that weekend too!.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on December 19, 2005, 12:37:31 pm
Any one have word on how Ripon is doing out in Hawaii? 

They lost 77-73 on Sunday to The Master's College (California.)  Ripon led 35-26 at the half, but the lead was chipped at until the game was tied at 61 with 4:30 remaining.  Masters goes on a 8-2 run over the next two minutes to take the lead.  Ripon cuts it to 2 a couple of times, but is unable to get a defensive stop. 

Johnson paces Ripon with 31 (11-26) while McMullen adds 19.  No other Redhawk scored more than 6. 

Ripon takes on North Central at 3pm today.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 19, 2005, 01:37:49 pm

Lawrence is currently #8 Jeff, but it should be fun to watch anyway.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 19, 2005, 02:35:55 pm
guess i better hit the refresh button, huh? ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 19, 2005, 02:57:34 pm

So what color is scarlet exactly?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 19, 2005, 04:09:28 pm
"Quite frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

                              Rhett Butler

OK, It's really somewhat brighter than Monmouth Red and way smarter than Ripon Red


Or, you could just wear black...as in Scarlet and Black.
                              ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 19, 2005, 04:15:19 pm
cubs,
Where did you get that info?  I would just like to look at the box score.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 19, 2005, 04:32:57 pm
JeffP - That's crimson to you.† †;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 19, 2005, 05:59:48 pm

Maybe I need to change the footer on my posts to:

"It is better to be dead than any shade of red."   ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 19, 2005, 09:45:21 pm
The only thing I have to say about that.....


109 days until Braier and LU are no more!!!

Just think rationally here....when did LU start winning multiple titles??? Coincidence....I think not....it was a good ride though...right?

Early..buddy...check www.midwestconference.org...the men's page will give you the box score. 

PS- sorry for the DD on sat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 20, 2005, 04:47:08 am
Looks like another board celebrity will make a return trip that weekend too!.

Based on the previous spike that that visit caused, Wu Tang Financial recommends buying Saints Rest stock a.s.a.p.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 20, 2005, 08:52:45 am

I'm sure we'll make quite an interesting trio taking in that game at New Darby.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 20, 2005, 09:08:52 am

Is there a White Chocolate option at Saint's Rest?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on December 20, 2005, 09:13:20 am
cubs,
Where did you get that info?  I would just like to look at the box score.
Early-

Here is the link I used for the Ripon/Master's College game.......

http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/schedule.html

Ripon also lost on Monday, 80-64 against North Central, who improved to 7-0 on the season.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 20, 2005, 09:16:02 am
thanks mwc, don't worry about the DD.  I thought it was fun  ;D.  I'm sorry I never returned it.  
Mark your callendar....January 7th, Appleton.

108 days until Braier and LU are no more!!!  
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 20, 2005, 09:27:37 am
Hoops Fan-
Yup!

Interesting trio indeed! Make it quadrio because my wife if just as vociferous as I am and will definitely be there!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 20, 2005, 11:13:33 am
HUH?  I tried the Ripon website for the stats and scores yesterday and didn't find it there.....ah well. 

Gease, 31 from Bo and 19 From McMullen, then only 23 from the entire rest of the team against Master's?  Need either some more production from the others, or more team play.  Something....RC can't depend on 2 people to carry them all year.
A little more production in game 2 vs. North Central.  But a high of 5 points off the bench....need some spark from a 6th man, or 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, anywhere.

Can't remember the last time the hawks were swept in a holiday tourny?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 20, 2005, 12:03:02 pm
Very disappointing trip for the redhawks...I guess the Hawaiin Punch was too much for them.  I also can't remember a time Ripon lost both its holiday games...very disappointing start for those guys.  The good news is it really doesn't matter (record wise) because what really matters is winning conference games.  What has to be concerning is the level of play they are playing at going into the LU game Jan. 7th.  I'm sure they'll bring their "A" level intensity, but I'm not sure they are ready yet as a team.  Remember they are all coming back next year so whatever they can build on, chemistry wise, will be a bonus.  They just need to continue to grow and fill roles.  They have as much talent as any team in this conference. 

Early -  I'll be waiting for the DD sometime....I even called your sis (no answer) that night...crazy times...But I will definitely see up in appleton for the Ripon/LU game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 20, 2005, 02:36:24 pm
Jeff,

I believe it would be an interesting "quartet"........... You've obviously got quads on your mind again.  :D

Hoops,

Don't remember any white chocolate options at Saints Rest but two new creations are currently under development. Although as Jeff has pointed out, my home machine is a bit limited. The first is the RoopaccinoHD the other one, since my karma falls for no good reason, will be the "Et Roop Latte.........then fall Grinnellfan68".
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 20, 2005, 04:57:08 pm
Santa Roop,

May I have a positive karma point for Christmas?

I've got to drive down to St. Louis tomorrow to "work" at the Illinois/Mizzou game.   :'(  I'll be the one in the stands with the sign that says, "Saints Rest - and so do the Tigers!"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 20, 2005, 06:43:47 pm
OK, Scottie, Karma point from Jeffp, but I better see the dang sign on TV, or I take it away ;D

Not Santa Roop
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 20, 2005, 07:38:45 pm
All I want for Christmas is to be under 100 negative karma points.  ;)

I can't believe these Ripon guys keep posting the days til Braier graduates.

Some day when he is a doctor and one of you guys comes into see him, he will likely forget his Hippocratic oath and remember the most important thing he ever knew--

                             "BETTER DEAD THAN RED !!"


Take your chances ticking him off,  boys.   ::)



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 20, 2005, 11:22:27 pm
Ahhh...postive Karma.  All of the sudden, the food tastes better...  The air is fresher...  Jordis Rocks is "quieter"...   ;)

Thank you to all who have supported me through this LONG journey.

GO ILLINI!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 21, 2005, 12:15:01 am
Have another Scottie. No advertisement conditions apply.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 21, 2005, 08:24:16 am
Tough crowd that votes for the top 25.

Carroll loses to the #25 ranked team on a (literally) last second 3pt shot, and they drop from consideration (no longer part of Others). What's amusing is that had the shot missed, UWO might have 4 loses and still be part of the 'Others receiving votes'. Oh well. It's not a perfect system. Reputation is hard to build, but once you have it, it can help.

As long as I'm on the subject of polls and reputations, is there any merit to the idea of not creating a poll until we're into the season a little ways? I've always thought one of the flaws of the poll process is that it is easier to make it to the top if your reputation allows you to be ranked high in the pre-season poll than it is to make it to the top if you receive no votes. It's not as big an issue in basketball because of the tournament, but the whole BSC mess in D1 football is driven in part by the possibility that the 'best' teams could be left out if too few of the 'experts' didn't think they were a great team to start the year.

Pat, any chance you'd be willing to lead the way on this and not produce the first Top 25 until most of the teams have had 5 or 6 games under their belt?

Oh, and btw, I've been trying to grant as many of the Chris-karma-s wishes as possible, but if you want more, you'll need to leave milk and Chris-karma-s cookies (points) for me... ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 21, 2005, 10:47:11 am
It's funny how the guy who loves the slogan, "better dead than red" is the one that is the most upset by us Ripon folk counting the days down to Braier's end.  Also he is not even a Lawrence grad, or student.  That's ironic don't you think?  Like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife, it's like rain on your wedding day.

mwc, you still have the same email?  Or have you gotten a new one?  Get mine from my profile and shoot me one.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 21, 2005, 11:09:48 am
Man, all the LU babble, Braier being a doctor, better dead then red, still doesn't change the fact that....


108 days until Braier and LU are no more!!!


Has it sunk in yet...only about 3 more months....maybe it will sink in come feb....i don't know....a sad day when Braier and MaGillis graduate...Remember you wouldn't be mentioning it if it didn't hurt!

Early, I will do just that...


GO ILLINI!!!
GO BEARS!!!


How are the pack doing this year???  Speaking of a team coming down...they are done for a while...the time of the Bear is now!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on December 21, 2005, 11:10:45 am
Ahhh...postive Karma.  All of the sudden, the food tastes better...  The air is fresher...  Jordis Rocks is "quieter"...   ;)

Now that is funny...if I had the power, I'd give you a karma boost myself.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 21, 2005, 01:53:32 pm
Tough crowd that votes for the top 25.
Carroll loses to the #25 ranked team on a (literally) last second 3pt shot, and they drop from consideration (no longer part of Others). What's amusing is that had the shot missed, UWO might have 4 loses and still be part of the 'Others receiving votes'. Oh well. It's not a perfect system. Reputation is hard to build, but once you have it, it can help.

The point is:  they lost.  It's a lot harder to get into the top 25 than it is to get out...a problem of a preseason poll.  Reputation apparently plays a lot into it.  Oh well.  It also has to do with other teams around them, if they win or lose.

Also he is not even a Lawrence grad, or student.  That's ironic don't you think?  Like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife, it's like rain on your wedding day.

Didn't know you were an Alanis Morisette fan.  ;D

Anyway, I don't think you have to be a grad or student to be a fan.  If I'd call myself a fan of any MWC team, it'd probably be Ripon. 

Oshkosh hasn't been doing well the last couple of years and have so far been a disappointment this year, so T2K has to pick someone who has at least been to the NCAA tourney recently.  Plus, he hates Point, and SP beat LU the last two years, so he jumps on the bandwagon of LU to spite the Point faithful.  And believe me, we don't care.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 21, 2005, 03:51:15 pm
Pat, any chance you'd be willing to lead the way on this and not produce the first Top 25 until most of the teams have had 5 or 6 games under their belt?

No. If we did that we be giving ground to the coaches' poll on the women's side and inviting people to cite Massey or some other ranking on the men's side.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 21, 2005, 04:13:26 pm

So is the poster's top 25 coming OS?  I've been waiting all year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 21, 2005, 04:37:46 pm
Didn't know you were an Alanis Morisette fan.  ;D

Not really, but I just made that joke Monday to some students and just kept it going. 

Oshkosh hasn't been doing well the last couple of years and have so far been a disappointment this year, so T2K has to pick someone who has at least been to the NCAA tourney recently.  Plus, he hates Point, and SP beat LU the last two years, so he jumps on the bandwagon of LU to spite the Point faithful.  And believe me, we don't care.

Gotcha.  Nice points Old School!  We're going streaken!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 21, 2005, 09:24:39 pm
man, do I love you guys  :-*

best board on the site... no contest  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 22, 2005, 01:58:01 am
Just getting back from the STL.  The game was about as fun as a 32 point win can be, i.e. it became boring, but still good for the folks in orange.  A few replies as I get ready for sleepy time:

Jordis Rocks - a few more bull sessions (emphasis on "bull") with OFS, and you'll be granting Karma in no time.

Early - why not think of a Bon Jovi reference??  I'd do if for you, but see last sentence of first paragraph.

DHF - Stop it.  You're making us all blush!   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 22, 2005, 04:40:28 am
Gotcha.† Nice points Old School!† We're going streaken!!

Through the quad and into the gymasium!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 22, 2005, 04:43:44 am
So is the poster's top 25 coming OS?  I've been waiting all year.

Probably.  I still have a week to think about it!  Not sure if I want to overshadow Pat's poll.  Deciding on that and if and when I'd do it.  I have much respect for "The Man" and don't want to conflict or anything with his work.

If I do it, the first poll wouldn't be out until the new year...something someone suggested last year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 05:28:16 am
Twas the night before Tip Off, when all through the land. Not a creature was stirring, not even diehardfan. The Red Hawks were stuck in the cellar how rare. In hopes that St. Norbert soon would be there.

The Bucs were nestled all snug in their beds, While visions of Roopaccinos danced in their heads. With Scottie in Glennie, and I in The Flood, we'd settled our karma and called not for blood.

When out of the region there arose such a clatter, I went to D3 to see what was the matter. Puget Sound had the upset I knew like a flash, UC-Riverside had wasted their D1 cash.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 05:39:14 am
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good smite.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 22, 2005, 08:25:19 am
Roop:

That is good for an "applaud", something I never get.

Merry Christmas to all of you, even the Point fans. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 22, 2005, 08:36:29 am
Twas the night before Tip Off, when all through the land. Not a creature was stirring, not even diehardfan. The Red Hawks were stuck in the cellar how rare. In hopes that St. Norbert soon would be there.

The Bucs were nestled all snug in their beds, While visions of Roopaccinos danced in their heads. With Scottie in Glennie, and I in The Flood, we'd settled our karma and called not for blood.

When out of the region there arose such a clatter, I went to D3 to see what was the matter. Puget Sound had the upset I knew like a flash, UC-Riverside had wasted their D1 cash.


Bravo, "The Roop", bravo.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 22, 2005, 01:01:11 pm
Roop:

That is good for an "applaud", something I never get.

Merry Christmas to all of you, even the Point fans. 

I applauded you for that.  I think if you would just leave the past where it's supposed to be and stop talking about your bad experience at Quandt and Super Bowls and all that, things would be a bit different for you.  That's all I'm saying.  I definitely don't hate you or anything, but you get annoying sometimes with your constant useless banter.  ;)  Stick to game reports, constructive criticizism and leave out the personal attacks and life will be grand.  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on December 22, 2005, 01:27:28 pm
† We're going streaken!!
Quote



Thats right....Losing streaken!

Especially when you have to come into Alex for your next game....the losses just keep right on coming.


Here's a little Holiday Haiku for all those in red and White


Looks like the redhawks
Miss Becker more than they thought
It sucks to be them


Happy Holidays everyone....even the Ripon fans...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 22, 2005, 02:24:09 pm
The Roop: Well done.  I had to wait 12 hours since my last Karma vote for you.  You're in the positive numbers now.  (Just don't get too Roopy and let all of these good vibes go to your Roop, or we'll Roop your Roop.)   ;D

Larry-U's haiku:
For staying true to the board,
Positive Karma
 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 05:21:59 pm
Scottie,

Did you really go to St. Loius? or was it the Planet Marklar.........
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 22, 2005, 05:24:32 pm
Yes, I did.  And I don't get the reference.   :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 06:00:20 pm
Thanks to everyone for the "applauds". I was hoping to parody the entire story with a reference to everyone in the conference, but it quickly dawned on me that rhyming Prairie Fire and Pioneers would be difficult; especially when I'd have to rhyme Pioneers twice.

forecast is not good
freezing rain in the morning
when I have to drive
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 22, 2005, 08:19:14 pm
Scottie,

Did you really go to St. Loius? or was it the Planet Marklar.........
Yes, I did. And I don't get the reference. :o

It really Marklars me that I Marklar get the Marklar.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 22, 2005, 08:35:01 pm
scottie - I bet that was a hell of a game to see in person!  Loved seeing Jamar Smith throwing down a dunk (I didn't know he could actually do it) and Marcus Arnold's dunk for the finishing touch.  I watched it with Snydz and several other Fighting Scots last night and had a good time celebrating the Mizzou beatdown. ;D

Oh, and the Marklar thing is a South Park reference...if I remember correctly anyways.  In one episode there are aliens from the planet Marklar and on their planet the word "Marklar" means anything and everything--basically just throw it in for nouns, verbs, other parts of speech, etc...  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 22, 2005, 09:02:09 pm
Sounds like the extraterrestrial equivalent of Smurfs. :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 09:14:09 pm
Earthly or extraterrestrial, all seek to become one with the New Roop Order; so your marklar is marklar. And it is marklar.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 22, 2005, 09:19:26 pm
I take that to mean that 'the Roop' is a smurf!

[Of course, if marklar can mean ANYTHING, I COULD be wrong, since there are INFINITE interpretations!] ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 09:30:40 pm
The Cabonney I knew would never stray from the Millions and Millions of "The Roops" fans by saying these things. So "The Roop" must ask........... Is Mr. Ypsi still one with the New Roop Order????

Clouded by the NAIA Side this is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 22, 2005, 09:50:23 pm
Now this just ain't fair - I have to decide between 'the Roop' or 'the Guru' (who happens to own this site!)?  Sorry 'the Roop', but that ain't a close call! ;) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 22, 2005, 10:00:56 pm
Mav - Good to read that you and Snydz could enjoy the Illini together.  Over a couple of 12 oz. "Marklars," no doubt.  The local word on the street about Jamar is that he is actually one of the nastiest dunkers on the team, but he's been keeping it a secret.  And, of course, his shooting is his signature.

But, just because he's the best shooter doesn't mean he's the best Marklar...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 22, 2005, 11:48:02 pm
There we have it citizens. Mr. Ypsi has sided with the corporations and the global warming they cause.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 23, 2005, 01:31:31 am
There we have it citizens. Mr. Ypsi has sided with the corporations and the global warming they cause.

Careful, me boy - you have just blamed Pat for all the corporate problems in the world! >:(

Besides, global warming would probably end the gulf stream, thus putting the Limeys and the Frogs into the deep freeze, while turning Michigan into 'Florida north', though turning Florida (and the whole Gulf Coast) into hurricane central.  Except for my sympathies already for Katrina (and Rita) victims, where is the downside for Michigan?! ;D

And we have not even reached 32 in the last 4 weeks - for US global warming doesn't seem so bad!  (Yeah, so a few countries cease to exist - at least you weren't freezin' your butts before you drowned!)

And just in case anyone couldn't tell that I had tongue in cheek - I had tongue in cheek!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on December 23, 2005, 08:12:04 am
I take that to mean that 'the Roop' is a smurf!

[Of course, if marklar can mean ANYTHING, I COULD be wrong, since there are INFINITE interpretations!] ;D

Given the events of the past 12-18 months, "The Roop" could be a Smurf, but only one part of him is blue... :o

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 23, 2005, 10:18:13 am
Since the Bard of Beloit couldn't handle it, I thought I'd give it a try:


As holidays came for the Prairie Fire,
their hope is to rise out of the MWC mire,
While so far so good for the Pioneers,
When LU is met, the smiles will be tears.

The Bucs will sun their buns in Cali, oh my
When they see LU play, tears of fear they will cry.
While visions of cherries dance in their heads,
The Redhawks really know its better dead than red.

So off to the parents I go on my way,
with no hoops to watch except rapists on Christmas day,
I look forward to being at Alex on January 7,
A disgusted Gillespie is next thing to heaven.


Merry Christmas one and all
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on December 23, 2005, 11:26:01 am
Larry u,
I can't even argue that.  Creative, very good.  :)  (Yeah I laughed and then cried  :'()

Well scottie, I guess Ripon is just "Liven on a Prayer!"
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 23, 2005, 12:30:03 pm
Merry Freakin' Christmas, everybody!

Oh, and Happy Holidays, too! ;D :D  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 23, 2005, 02:46:48 pm
I'll take a non-conference win for Christmas if there are any other games scheduled.  We've been getting creamed. people!!  Granted, a lot of those games have been against ranked teams.  Let's go, MWC!

 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on December 24, 2005, 05:18:07 pm
Mav - Good to read that you and Snydz could enjoy the Illini together.  Over a couple of 12 oz. "Marklars," no doubt.  The local word on the street about Jamar is that he is actually one of the nastiest dunkers on the team, but he's been keeping it a secret.  And, of course, his shooting is his signature.

But, just because he's the best shooter doesn't mean he's the best Marklar...

scottie - Yeah there were some 12-oz. Marklars involved while watching the Tigers get thumped. :D  That's interesting to hear that Jamar has quite a reputation as a dunker, but I suppose I shouldn't be that surprised since he's around 6'3" which would mean that he's not extremely small or anything...  But like you said, his signature is his long range shooting so I can see why people wouldn't look at him as much of a dunking threat.  I've actually seen video of Dee Brown putting one down at Midnight Madness a few seasons ago--that was something to see!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 24, 2005, 05:56:49 pm
But Dee Brown is a 'BIG' guy!  I don't know if he's done it in the NBA, but 5'5" (officially - trust me, he's closer to 5'3") Earl Boykins had several slams during games while at E. Michigan.  Man, did THAT bring down the house (and almost invariably led to an EMU run as the other team was pulling their jaws off the floor)! ;) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on December 27, 2005, 12:13:05 pm
Happy Holidays to all, long time reader first time post. Figured it would be a good time to comment since the Carroll men left early this mourning for florida, this trip is important for them since they are coming of a very dissappointing loss to UW-zero. Hopefully the pioneers can come back undefeated from florida and carry that momentum into the heart of confernce play.

Can anyone tell me what is with Ripon this year? Beloit is currently 4th in mwc, are they for real?

GO PIONEERS
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 27, 2005, 01:41:17 pm
Nice to see another poster on board, especially for a team that isn't well represented.

In all honesty, I don't think there is much wrong with Ripon this year.  They are getting used to life without Tommy Becker.  They've lost 6 games already, but they've played a pretty tough schedule.

I have no idea what happened vs. Marian.  I guess the first game without Becker was pretty bad.  They lost to Point, who despite losing most of their players from their back to back championships, still have a solid team and are currently 6-2.  Ripon lost to La Crosse (9-2), whose only losses are to WIAC powers Point and Whitewater, and La Crosse did just beat ranked St. Thomas.  They lost to Grinnell down in Iowa and they are 6-1.  Ripon most recent loss was to North Central, of the CCIW, and they are undefeated at 7-0 (though no conference games have been played).

Losses
Marian (4-7)
Point (6-2)
La Crosse (9-2)
Grinnell (6-1)
The Masters (5-4)
North Central (7-0)

The Masters is an NAIA program.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 28, 2005, 11:49:42 am
Reading about short guys who can dunk, I couldn't help thinking about OFS putting back a rebound at Knox.  Remember that, OFS?  But Knox's floor has springs underneath it....   :D

Don't get too down on Ripon just yet.  They did come into Glennie and beat the Fighting Scots, who'll be in the MWC playoffs in March.

Optimistically,

"Monmouth in 2006!"† †;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on December 28, 2005, 12:20:01 pm
2-6 is just a gross number to look at and they should be better then that.  Luckily they are 1-1 in conference and in the thick of things to start (like everyone except IC and Norberts)  Plus first 3 games are/were on the road so after Jan.7, they have 8 of the remaining 13 games at home where they NORMALLY don't get beat in.

Keep the faith RC fans!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 28, 2005, 03:51:56 pm
They did come into Glennie and beat the Fighting Scots, who'll be in the MWC playoffs in March.
"Monmouth in 2006!"† †;D


Scottie,

I must have missed the announcement that the MWC Tournament is going to 8 teams this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 28, 2005, 04:17:21 pm
good day all, 
good to see banya gettin in on the action!  the king of wing is finally getting his d3hoops sea-legs.  our fellas and ladies our on their way to daytona as i post and we wish them luck and success in the coming days.  i am posting today from emory university hospital in atlanta georgia where i have been for a few days.  a family health emergency saw me speeding through freezing rain through the night on christmas to be by the side of my sick relative.  the relevence to d3hoops and this board especially is my two posting buddies falco and banya.  most of you know us for our obnoxious courtside manner but their is much more to the equation.  the guys beside me at those games are the same guys calling and offering support and keeping my family in their prayers (though falco is a raging liberal and i'm not sure who he prays to, could be krishna or ra for all i know)  but i'm glad to have people like that surrounding me during the highs and the lows.  go carroll!

wallace....out
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 28, 2005, 04:19:02 pm
I took that as there being #7 vs. #10 and #8 vs. #9 play-in games this year!  ;D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 28, 2005, 05:44:39 pm
Sooooooo fuuuunnnnnnyyyyy!  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 28, 2005, 06:11:43 pm
wwallacecc,

A raging liberal you say. Perhaps "The Roop" also needs to visit Carroll this year. The occasional democrat vote is acceptable but the raging liberals and lunatic fringe types that hang out at art galleries and coffee houses, especially, are in greatest need of becoming one with the New Roop Order.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on December 28, 2005, 08:14:21 pm
Remember Mr "the Roop", a raging liberal Carroll Pioneer is still somewhere to the right of of the most conservative of the Real Pioneers, otherwise known as the Grinnell Pioneers-the ones with the 'candyass' pre-conference schedule. New Roop Order? Give me chaos and anarchy any day. At least that I can make sense of!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 28, 2005, 08:44:25 pm
Just relax Jeff. Try mixing some water with the grounds next time  :P
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 28, 2005, 09:33:33 pm
The match ups for next years New Roop Order Classic. In the main event Carnegie-Mellon vs. Puget Sound and the undercard is Princeton vs. UC-Riverside.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: playdefense on December 29, 2005, 09:41:12 am
Anybody think Lawrence can compete for a final four spot in the west region this year?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on December 29, 2005, 12:21:29 pm
If they make it to the playoffs, sure.  They still have to get through the MWC season first.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 29, 2005, 12:54:09 pm
Anybody think Lawrence can compete for a final four spot in the west region this year?

Considering that Lawrence could position themselves into receiving one of five byes, they'd probably have to only win ONE game to get a final four spot in the west region this year!

Here's a breakdown of how the new tourney format is set up with the expansion to 59 teams, taken from Titan Q's post in the tourney page.


* Thurs 3/2: 5 games played - winners face the 5 bye teams on Sat 3/4

* Fri, Sat 3/3 & 3/4: 11 4-team tounaments (each at one designated location) with the 11 winners advancing to Sectional

* Sat 3/4: Winners of Thursday games @ bye teams - 5 winners advancing to Sectional

* Fri, Sat 3/10 & 3/11: Sectional as we are used to them - 4 winners advancing to Salem
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 29, 2005, 01:07:56 pm
True. Maybe he meant final four overall, even though he said "final four of the west region."
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 29, 2005, 10:42:16 pm
LU is up 53-16 over Goucher at halftime of Big Surf Classic.  Goucher must have been at the beach all day.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on December 30, 2005, 02:29:33 am
Beloit dropped their game 82-68 to the host team Vanguard. No obvious anomolies from the boxscore so I'd say the Bucs just lost to a better team. I believe Vanguard is a scholarship NAIA team so there is nothing to cry about.  One thing that did stand out from the boxscore was that there were only 18 free throws for the entire game. I'd say the refs let them play. As long as they didn't let people get away with cheap shots, I'm all for it.

Tomorrows LU-Vanguard game should be a good one. Beloit and LU have some common non-conference opponents this year. So far Beloit doesn't appear to be as far behind LU as I thought they would be at the beginning of the season.

Still a long way to go, but if Ripon doesn't wake up, I can see Beloit as the #3 seed in the MWC tournament. Regardless of what happens the rest of the way some good teams are going to be left out.





Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 30, 2005, 03:53:56 am
LU is up 53-16 over Goucher at halftime of Big Surf Classic.  Goucher must have been at the beach all day.


Nah, I think it's that Goucher can't throw the ball in the ocean this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 30, 2005, 10:16:47 am
lol.... my favorite joke has always been that -

X team couldn't get a ball to hit the floor if they wanted to!

it's either because it appeals to my science sensibilities, or because I think I made the joke up myself :D

Happy almost new year everyone...  ;)

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: wwallacecc on December 30, 2005, 05:46:59 pm
yo room!  now that i've got your attention....
just sitting at kbanya30's drinkin the champagne of beers gettin ready for the bucks/knicks game tonite, also to be attended by one mr falco, who's looking forward to a long weekend after multiple tps reports were due circa the end of the fiscal year. 
wanted to update you on the games from daytona.  the carroll men won both of their games convincingly by 22 and 33 respectively vs. mcdaniel and nichols.  the women also won both of their games one by almost 50 and the other by 1.  so congrats to both of our hoops teams on a great trip.  both teams move to 8-1 overall on the season.  hopefully the d3hoops top 25 will give us a couple looks again....but we'll have to wait and see.

wallace....out
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 31, 2005, 12:10:42 am
The Midwest Conference website is currently experiencing technical difficulties. We apologize for any inconvenience. The following are final basketball scores from Friday, December 30.

MEN
Beloit 62, Goucher 44
St. Norbert 70, Olivet 63
Live/final stats for the Lawrence vs. Vanguard game can be found at the following linkÖ

http://www.vanguard.edu/athletics/livestats/mbasketball/topview.htm


WOMEN
St. Norbert  69, # NR/25 UW-Stout 58
Marymount(VA) 72, Beloit 68 (2 OT)

Womenís rankings are D3hoops.com/WBCA
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on December 31, 2005, 01:34:39 am
LU wins 64-59, gritty play it appears in 2nd half by Bradley and Braier. 

Osland plays well too.

Low shooting %, wil have to hear why.

10-0 with Gillespie and the Red Hens in the wings at  Alex on 1/7/06.

See y'all there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on December 31, 2005, 01:35:23 am
The Midwest Conference website is currently experiencing technical difficulties. We apologize for any inconvenience. The following are final basketball scores from Friday, December 30.

MEN
Lawrence 64, Vanguard 59
Carroll 96, Nichols 63
Beloit 62, Goucher 44
St. Norbert 70, Olivet 63


WOMEN
Monmouth 81, Macalaster 58
St. Norbert  69, # NR/25 UW-Stout 58
Marymount(VA) 72, Beloit 68 (2 OT)

Womenís rankings are D3hoops.com/WBCA
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 01, 2006, 03:52:25 am
Still Perfect reads the D3 headlines. mmmmm. Didn't Medaille just lose 109-36 to D1 Robert Morris (Pittsburgh, I think) ??? Too many Robert Morris's in any event.

Well anyway. Beloit finished their California trip 1-1 as "The Roop" predicted. Nothing wrong with that but the next question is "Where do they stand in the conference"?? Lawrence will come to town on the 10th looking to go 10-0, but you know what; Lawrence will be due to lose one by that time.  After that Beloit has a favorable schedule.

The Lawrence game on the 10th really isn't that important. Stringing some wins together after that is.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 01, 2006, 12:31:51 pm
What would a Robert Morris/Medaille men's score have to do with their women's team being undefeated?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 01, 2006, 01:31:32 pm
What would a Robert Morris/Medaille men's score have to do with their women's team being undefeated?

Pat:

Easy on the Beloit contingent.   They are a fragile lot.  ::)

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 03, 2006, 10:31:36 am
Happy New Year!!

Scottie, at 5'8 i remember all of my dunks (two in games, three in practice) ;D

I was at the Surf City Classic and i must say LU is very impressive.  I also must say that Hinz should shoot more, there were plenty of Bucs taking bad shots when Hinz could have scored 40 in both games b/c neither team had an answer for him.

LU's defense = incredible
LU's depth = i truly believe that the (first two) freshman guards that come off the bench are more "talented" than the starters.  Against Goucher, LU played 22 guys and only three of them looked like they were just along for the ride...
Braier = are you kidding me?  just would not let LU lose vs. Vanguard, he was amazing in second half (specifically) final10 mins....
LU vs. MWC = unless a team has two (because one wasnt enough, but almost) extremely quick guards that can penetrate and shoot the three, LU may not lose until March...

Beloit - GIVE HINZ THE BALL!!!!!!!!!!  Freshman point is ok, Towns played hard, and Hendry was impressive.  But the other beloit guards failed miserably at running the offense thru Hinz, someone needs to realize that if anyone is going to force something it needs to be Hinz (period).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 03, 2006, 12:21:29 pm
Can't wait until Saturday....

Its gonna be sweet


Party time in Alex baby!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 03, 2006, 12:26:28 pm
I agree larry_u!  I can't wait until Saturday.
It's gonna be sweet to watch my first RC game of the year and for it to be the game when they Ripon brings their "Bad Medicine" into Alex and pull out a W!

Maybe I'll see you there????

But no matter what I agree with party time in Appleton no less!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 03, 2006, 02:18:10 pm
Carthage is still 'expanding' the D3hoops Top 25. According to their website, they just lost to #29 GA.

For all those in the MWC used to the 'jet lag' experienced after playing Grinnell, look at what Carthage gets. They play the Pioneers tomorrow night and then have to turn around and play #1 Illinois Wesleyan three days later. That should be enough time to recover, but that's a big switch in style and skill sets!

Here's hoping Carthage is looking past Grinnell. We'd hate to let them end up .500 against the MWC.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 03, 2006, 02:19:59 pm
OFS - Good west coast review.  LU sounds like the real deal, but they better watch themselves on Jan. 27.  You know what happened the last time they came into Glennie...  By the way, I thought  you were 5'6" 1/2.   ;)

Early - Do you think Ripon is going to give Larry a "shot to the heart!"?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 03, 2006, 02:25:54 pm
Bad medicine?  Shot to the heart?

The big question is:

Who's gonna "have a nice day"?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 03, 2006, 03:05:05 pm
That's too nu skool for
this group of old "runaways."
Must end this madness!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on January 03, 2006, 03:14:55 pm
Thanks for the shout out wallace. Well thank god that carroll came home from florida unbeaten, they weren't playing against good competition by anymeans. As confernce play picks up here look for carroll to beat St. Norbert and IC by 20 points or more.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 03, 2006, 03:26:00 pm
No, I suppose the Robert Morris/Medailles mens score doesn't have much to do with the womens teams being undefeated. Now that I'm back home and have DSL access I can see that. The dial up service of the northwoods only loads about half a page at a time, therein lied my confusion.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 03, 2006, 04:16:12 pm
Bad medicine?  Shot to the heart?

The big question is:

Who's gonna "have a nice day"?


With all due respect,  Bon Jovi's best record came in the Arena Football League !!

See you all for the LU victory at Alex on Saturday. 

BDTR  :D

 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 03, 2006, 06:22:46 pm
I wish LU would move the start time back an hour. I've got to work Saturday and can't get to Appleton from Wausau in an hour and a half. Not legally anyway.

The season is over, long live the season

† † <--------------------<<†

I had 3 come into range of the stand a couple times, but I let them walk this year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 04, 2006, 04:02:10 am
Not an hour and a half, but about an hour and 35-40 minutes.

Depending where you are in Wausau, it's about 25 minutes to Stevens Point and it's an hour and 10 or 15 minutes from Point to Appleton.  YOU CAN DO IT!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 04, 2006, 02:28:36 pm
The new Highway 10 is a speedway--go for it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2006, 04:07:38 pm
I'll keep it in mind. However, I'd prefer to get there in time to find a seat. Not sure how likely that is if I don't leave until 2:45. 29 would be my route of choice.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 04, 2006, 05:26:24 pm
GC plays Carthage tonight at Carthage. Heres hoping the 'neers can make a dent in the home court advantage!

Someone asked my why I hadn't posted lately. I'd been reading, but am just beginning to recover some writing skills since the NYE party. Dick Clark's performance raddled my bwain.

Remarkable recovery, but sometimes ya just gotta know when to quit.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2006, 05:43:13 pm
Is your "bwain" rattled enough to admit that "The System" isn't real basketball ?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 04, 2006, 05:46:13 pm
Jeff, that's like asking you to turn off the burners for good...  You're talking about a man's livelihood.  I'm sure Dickie C. and his advisors will make the proper decisions now that he's gone public.  I'm just worried that we've now got about 50 more years of the ever-botoxed Ryan Seacrest.***  

But enough pop culture...  Good luck to the 'neers and bring home another MWC win.

***Scottie....OUT!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2006, 06:02:42 pm
Roopacinno, the Midwest Conference treat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 04, 2006, 06:09:14 pm
Sorry about the cheap shot on Mr Clark. It really is a remarkable recovery, and I fully agree, Scottie, that we don't need one more damn botox freak sullying the pristine TV airways. ;D :D ;D



blasted a little dead and, believe it or not, a little slygo about 12:15. maybe that is why i took so long to recover?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 04, 2006, 07:01:27 pm
Good news for Grinnell (tho a shame for Carthage and the player) - PG and leading scorer, Trey Bowens is apparently academically ineligible starting with tonite's game.   

As someone put it on CCIW Chat, the LAST thing you want to do when about to face Grinnell is lose your PG! ;)

For those into well-named players, yes, Trey IS (was?) their best 3-point shooter!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 04, 2006, 07:13:53 pm
Excuses from the CCIW brethren before the game even starts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 04, 2006, 07:16:52 pm
No excuses from me!  I picked Grinnell in the CCIW Pickems BEFORE the story on Bowens even came out!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 04, 2006, 08:26:54 pm
JeffP - NOW YOU'RE SPEAKING MY LANGUAGE! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 04, 2006, 10:36:16 pm
Any word on the GC-Carthage game?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 04, 2006, 10:42:56 pm
Carthage beat Grinnell tonight by a little over 10 points.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 05, 2006, 08:07:02 am
Carthage 135
Grinnell   123

This game was close throughout the first half with Grinnell leading most of the way. They just plain got outplayed in the last few minutes of the first half and a 4 or 5 minute stretch in the second. Sounds  alot like the Wartburg game. 1st road game of the season for GC; boy am i glad they are back home to regroup this Saturday against IC!

Two keys-
Rebounds
missed chippies

Thanks to Boss2 for the call about the game!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 05, 2006, 08:30:01 am
Carthage 135
Grinnell 123

This game was close throughout the first half with Grinnell leading most of the way. They just plain got outplayed in the last few minutes of the first half and a 4 or 5 minute stretch in the second. Sounds alot like the Wartburg game. 1st road game of the season for GC; boy am i glad they are back home to regroup this Saturday against IC!

Two keys-
Rebounds
missed chippies

Thanks to Boss2 for the call about the game!
From looking at the box score, the rebounds were very big indeed. Carthage pulled down 20 more rebounds including 2 more offensive rebounds than GC. As a result, GC only took one more shot than Carthage (89 to 88). Grinnell appears to have shot pretty well, but if you don't take a lot more shots than your opponent, the System math doesn't work too well.

I thought it was interesting that the fouls and free throws were pretty even. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 05, 2006, 08:44:58 am
Looks like Nordlund fouls out at 3 minute mark and has about 4 fewer shifts. Looks like a very frustrating game for him, and despite the good play from others, he is still key to success on both ends of the court.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 05, 2006, 09:00:21 am

Well, you know Jeff, they have to lose a few here or there to keep the bullseye off their back.  I don't know if you've noticed, but undefeated teams are not doing so hot of late.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 05, 2006, 09:15:18 am
'yeah, some real surprises of late!

 I know everyone loses games, but most of you know that I wear my GBall feelings on my sleeve, so forgive me if i pout for a day or two. What pisses me off is that none of the lucky stuff worked-the lucky ring, the lucky shirt, the lucky jacket, the lucky shoes, the other lucky ring....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 05, 2006, 10:29:39 am
Just re read one of my posts-it was very poorly written. I don't think Paul had a particularly bad game, just was frustrated by shots that didn't drop and -from what I hear-the very physical play inside.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on January 05, 2006, 12:49:18 pm
Midweek notes have been posted on the MWC website.

http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/BBALLNotes1-5.pdf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 05, 2006, 04:26:13 pm
Well Jeff as long as Grinnell faithful managed to harass the Carthage fans and players excessively, it's not a total loss.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 05, 2006, 04:44:34 pm
Grinnell fans harassing fans and players excessively?† Whatchoo talkin' about Roopis?† †:D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 05, 2006, 05:04:52 pm

Yeah, didn't that game take place in Wisconsin?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 05, 2006, 05:09:20 pm
Yes, I know it was a road game. But I thought teams of System Hooligans were dispatched to all their contests for harassment purposes.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 05, 2006, 05:26:41 pm
Roop--to Alexander:

Much faster route is to go 51 to Point to Highway 10
Hwy 10 to Appleton where it merges with 441
Follow over the 441 bridge in Menasha to Oneida St. exit
Left onto Oneida (N)
Right to Calumet(E)
Left on Lawe (N) to S. River St.
Right onto S. River to Alexander Gym (E)


65MPH the whole way (a little slower in Amherst) until town, 55 until Oneida St.

BDTR

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 05, 2006, 05:37:04 pm
It's probably 6 of one and a half dozen of the other. Since I'd have to get on 29 to get to 51 in the first place, I think I'd just follow Mapquests advice and head east  on 29. I've not ruled out going, even though I'd be late regardless of route travelled, but 3 things need to happen in order first. At the moment I'm still waiting on the first thing to happen.

Don't know what BDTR means but if it's good I'm that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 06, 2006, 08:24:39 am
OMG!!! ???

Roop has a positive karma and I have a negative one. What the heck is going on in this Bizzaro World?!

Must be the coffee from the Saints Rest. Hmmm, maybe a little Kimchi and Spam would help...

 ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 06, 2006, 09:12:11 am
Just a thought.....

Is there anyone except for the Ripon faithfull that thinks RC can knock off Larry in Alex this weekend?

I know Gillespie will have his boys fired up for the game, and with as much time in between games he has every play analyzed.  They WILL be ready for the game, but once tip-off starts, it's all up to the players.  Work together boys and good things will happen.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2006, 09:24:31 am

I wouldn't be surpised, but I'm not expecting it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 06, 2006, 09:40:42 am
Ripon is physical inside, but a little suspect in the guard court IMHO. If they get good play out front they definitely have a chance.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 06, 2006, 11:51:41 am
I just hope Gillespie isn't a jackass if he loses.  I'd have to think his actions (or lack thereof) post game in the MWC tourney last year were embarrassing if you were a Ripon fan/alum.

Grace in victory and defeat. 

Roop--I think I got 50% of my negative karma from Ripon fans for BDTR (Better Dead than Red) and the other 50% for slamiing the Pointers for their host facility.  My 2006 resolution was to kill the latter diatribe.  I would hope that PS and the boys might see it in their heart to improve my karma as my therapist says it will be a big step in my recovery.

See you at Alex.   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU 05 on January 06, 2006, 11:51:50 am
FYI,
       Ripon has not won at Alex in 5 years.  Yes that even includes one victory before Briaer got there.  




Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 06, 2006, 01:23:51 pm
Sounds like an upset in the making, huh? :o
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 06, 2006, 01:38:33 pm
I like Jeffp's accessment.  If Ripon goes to Schmitting (73%FG/ 14.9pts/gm) they have a chance.  Alex is by far the hardest place to play for Ripon.  I believe Ripon won at Alex in 2001.  I don't expect a victory by the red hawks, just a hard fought game and a chance to get better.  After alex, 8/13 are home for Ripon.

Regards to the comments on Gillespie,

Gillespie hates LU/Tharp...think Jimmy Collins-Bruce Pearl.  I know he deeply respects LU's program, but try not to judge Gillie on his post game reactions.  To know how passionate he is about his players and Ripon College you only have to look at how long he has been there.  His success speaks for himself.  I realize it looks bad when he doesn't shake a coaches hand...and it is, but when you lose a heart-breaker in OT for the championship knowing how good Ripon's team was last year and how they weren't going to get the chance to compete any further, it eats at him.  I guess there is no real good excuse as to why he is who he is, but without Gillie there is no rivalry.

Oh and Titan2000

I have never given you a negative Karma point...I have no clue how to give them or receive them.  I would have to say the reason you have soooo many negative karma points...well just re-read most your posts and that will tell you why.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2006, 02:38:33 pm

Hey somebody's got to have the record low karma rating; treat it like a badge of honor.  Embrace it like Duke does... everybody "hates" them too.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 06, 2006, 03:52:39 pm
Yeah T2K,
You can't put the karma thing on me either.....I'm in the same boat as mwc4life here.....no idea how to give karma or where it even comes from.

And yes Ripon did win in 2001, so it's been 4 years since we have won at Alex.  Honest math mistake LU_05....but it's my job to correct math mistakes. ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 06, 2006, 03:57:48 pm

I didn't realize this, but it was alluded to on another board, but apparently you have to amass a certain number of posts before you are allowed to give karma.

Don't quote me on that, but it makes sense.  Maybe Pat will enlighten us.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 06, 2006, 04:08:28 pm
The magic number is 200 posts for the karma feature to be active.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 06, 2006, 04:17:11 pm
Oh yeah, it's 200... and you can only give karma every 18 hours or so... (I don't know what the new one is, it used to be 12) basically I believe Pat is trying to prevent people from abusing the system and targeting people.

If you have negative karma it was earned over a long period of time by someone doesn't think well of you, or by several people.  :D :P

Just kidding, you know I just gave karma to a bunch of you because I luv u!  :-* :D ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 06, 2006, 04:18:50 pm
ACTUALLY MATH PROF

We won in the 2000-2001 season.  Now is the 2005-2006 season (I know applaud me)....soooo therefore it has been five years....unless of course the year we won in 01 was after the Jan. 7th date in which we would still be holding onto technically only a four year drought...either way its bad
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 06, 2006, 11:58:58 pm
Anyone who actually worries or cares about their karma points has issues.  ;D

I actually liked the old system better where we graded specific posts from 1 to 5 stars.  But, what do I know!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2006, 01:04:42 am
Anyone who actually worries or cares about their karma points has issues.  ;D

I actually liked the old system better where we graded specific posts from 1 to 5 stars.  But, what do I know!

Totally agree!  I'd give that post 5 stars, but I guess I can only give you a general 'applaud' instead!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 07, 2006, 08:37:17 am
Just so you all know, KGRN radio in Grinnell will be webcasting todays Grinnell vs Illinois College game at 3:00(CST) today. They can be found at

www.kgrn1410.com

just click on the sports icon and follow the link to listen. I believe they are webcasting the women's game at 1:00(CST) as well.

Good luck to everyone today...except the Blueboys, of course! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 07, 2006, 01:01:51 pm
mwc,
yes we did win in 2000-2001, which is technically 5 years ago, but remember we WON that game.  Then lost in 2001-2002, 2002-2003, 2003-2005, and 2004-2005......4 years ;).  And the this year, which they haven't played yet, so you can't count that game yet, and especially because Ripon plans on upseting them today.

And yes everyone this is trivial, but I will not be out done in math. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 07, 2006, 04:29:09 pm
35 minutes to tip off and I haven't left for Alex yet; something tells me I'm not going to make it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: ccfan69 on January 07, 2006, 04:51:49 pm
Carroll 74   St Norberts  64 F
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 07, 2006, 06:18:53 pm
GC 133, IC 104
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 07, 2006, 08:35:59 pm
Trees 84, Scotties 77

LF outscores MC 10-3 in overtime stanza.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 08, 2006, 10:20:53 am
Grinnell 133
IC 104

Man, this was one of those games that I watched and worried about. Footspeed for GC was down a notch, silly TO's in the guard court, missed lay ins, missed assignments, and even a screw up in the rotation-TWICE! I have never seen that before-it may have happened before and been hidden from view, but it just looked ugly all night.

Then I looked at the scoreboard. Huh? 29 pt win?

Then, this morning I looked at the box (it is on the GC website). Much better RB totals than Carthage game, BListering 42.2 % from 3 pt range, created 30 To's, had 18 steals compared to 6...how jaded am I that I couldn't see the statistics for the players? ;D ??? ;D

Some things of note- IC never gave in. This team may be down and in need of a talent infusion, but they are well coached, gritty and hard to the court. They had a good strategy to score off the defensive rebound, and whittled away during GC's few dry spells.

Paul Nordlund had a fantastic game scoring 19pts, blocking 3 shots while bothering way more than that, and he hit 3 treys in a row when IC had been making a move. Leader, he is!

Jr did a good job distributing the ball while Doug Ticus continues to improve-fine block at one point in the second half that got eeveryone stompin'. Mike Schmidt played his most complete game to date with 4 treys, a steal or two and a block. He was all over the court and effective in what he did. Brock got the crucial rebounds and continued his string of solid games.

Bobby learns more every game-sometimes by fire-but what a great addition he is to this team. Trek and Toby had those typical hidden from view games that seem to bite opponents at the most critical times, and Jack hit a lone trey that was almost a backbreaker except that the game was essentially already over. He followed it with a steal that had the whole IC team and coaching staff staring at the floor. It sure is nice to have seniors who understand.

Grotberg had another outstanding scoring performance and showed ball handling skills beyond the grasp of most D3 players. There appears to be little defense against him. If he isn't the best  1st year in the conference he is damn close to it. After this game JG leads the nation in scoring and Jr leads the nation in assists.

GC heads for Monmouth on Tuesday, and I gotta say that I worry about this game. Monmouth hasn't put it all together yet and is about due. GC must play with fire and intensity the whole game and get to The Scot's shooters or this game could go south. It is always hard to win on the road in this conference and GC needs to get back in good form on the floor to win some of those games on the road. I say that in full knowledge that the stats say they are OK. I just don't know whether to believe my eyes or the stat sheet! I guess I should just stick to reporting the score until I can figure out the discrepancy, Huh?

 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 08, 2006, 10:34:23 am
LU wins at Alex over Ripon.

Keven Bradley throws in the last 20 points for LU and saves the day.

Ripon loses its cool and bumps a ref for a T and a big swing late in the game.  Ripon has a good team, really good inside and their guards can penetrate too.  I'm surprised their record is so poor.  They will be a force in the MWC if they get to the tourney.

LU bench gets a T in the first half after a really bad call a few plays earlier--and the ref had to be restrained by the other refs as he lunged at Tharp after he said something to him.  I haven't ever seen that.  It was like the ref wanted to fight or something.  Maybe he was baiting Tharp to get another one?

McGillis covers Bo Johnson like a sheet and he is held to 10 points and not many attempts.

Physical game, the refs let them play.

Gillespie does shake hands so all past sins are forgiven.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 08, 2006, 12:51:18 pm
T2K's assement was pretty accurate....I don't know if the 7 to 1 foul count (LU's favor of course) with 16 minutes to go in the second half constitutes as "letting them play," but I would say over-all the officiating was pretty poor yet again in the MWC.

On to the game.  Anyone who has a chance to see Briaer play needs to do so one last time....I really have no idea what his box score was, but it's so impressive to see how many people respond to him.  I can honestly say that I've never seen a player his caliber impact his teammates on so many different levels.  Whenever LU was down or needed a run it was always Braier who got an "and one" or hit a three or got his man to go over his back.  He is some special player and as this weeks edition in SI states, the only player in the MWC's history to post a 1,000 points and a 1,000 rebounds in his career.  He is the heart and soul of LU's program and there is NOOOO doubt in my mind that LU will take a big step back when he leaves.  The energy his brings to the court is unlike any other and this teammates feed of it like a drug. 

Bo had another bad game at Alex mostly giving credit to MaGillis who is a great competitor...although his 3 points was shocking to be honst.  Three players stood out to me during the game (not including Briaer).  One of course was Bradley for LU who didn't miss a shot and indeed "saved" LU from a potential upset.  The other two were soph Paul Wise (who was the player who got T'd late in the game to seal it for LU) and Brian Schmitting.  LU had no answer for either of those guys.  Wise is really coming along this year and showed a great ability to create and finish his own shot against a great defense.  Brian Schmitting, in my bias opinion, is the best center in the MWC.  He is slowly recovering from a knee injury which one doctor told him he had to sit this whole season.  His knee is feeling the best it has before he hurt it in the UW-GB exibition game earlier in the year.  I don't believe there is anyone that can stop him in our league besides possibly beckford.  I know one thing, if Gillie and Ripon gave Schmitting a touch every possesion, it would open the offense up for shooters like johnson and McMullen.  In fact, I believe if Ripon changed from more of a three guard motion to concentrating on feeding schmitting the ball, they will be extremly tough to beat.  I want to know what the LU's impressions were of him.

Overall LU's defense is very very good and they run awesome offense.  Braier has the Jordan Rules, but deserves everything he gets.  I'm 100% sure they aren't as good as the past LU teams, but they still have Briaer.  I didn't really see anyone from LU that leads me to believe their future is safe post Briaer era.  I realize Bradley can shoot the ball very well from the outside, but they lack size.  All the new faces on LU's team look like clones of one another and no one really stood out (besides Bradley)...meaning I didn't see anyone that could take games over...their greatly run offense is the beneficiary of a lot of their players....gonna be different when Bopper is gone...oh yeah and MaGillis.

One last note: LU does a great job drawing fouls that aren't there.  They lean into defenders, fall down/flop....MaGillis had one play where he threw his leg into an on-coming defender that twisted him around and looked really bad, but thank god the refs didn't buy that one....just stuff like that, but hey do whatever you have to do to win.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: GrinnellFan68 on January 08, 2006, 01:04:02 pm
hows this dope hai-ku
jeff p is straight up sexy
fo sho pioneers


I'm back on the wagon...or off...not sure...whatever it is, I'm drinking again.

love you guys
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 08, 2006, 04:20:17 pm
So if I understand you correctly. Seeing JeffP has caused you to drink.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 08, 2006, 04:46:55 pm
The interesting is, JeffP has that effect on most of his customers.

I second Jeff's assessment of the GC/IC game. Particularly at the end, GC was shaking up their strategy and giving us some hints of games to come. Bobby Long has the potential to become their 'go-to' guy, and if you couple him with Arsenault and Grotburg, you really start to wonder if there's anything that GC *can't* do!

Of course, I'm a bit of a fan  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 08, 2006, 06:01:06 pm
Hey Early,

It appears that Gillie is shaking hands again.  But now the players "are giving sportsmanship a bad name."

JeffP, I hope (for MC's sake) that the Scots will be looking to heal some road wounds with a W at home Tuesday night.   Maverick, FS13 and Schwan "Pulitzer" Man ought to provide some good recaps.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 08, 2006, 06:10:22 pm
T2 and MWC4life

Cannnot generally disagree with most of your comments on the game.  LU wins with defense and that is how they beat Ripon.  MacGillis on Johnson was terrific.  So was Rosenblatt and Kadison on McMullen.  Wise and Schmitting had nice games, but each had a lot of their success when LU went to the bench.

Your comments on Briaer are dead on.

Ripon does have talent that is not reflected in their record.  I suspect that Lake Forest is similiar.

I think it is too early to say that LU is not as strong as the past two years.  I am not yet saying they are stronger this year, but they cannot do better than 9-0.  They do sometimes play to the level of their competition.  While they miss people that have graduated, folks like Briaer, Klekamp and McGillis are likely to continue to be better than they have been in the past as most senior's are.  Also. freshman guards continue to play strong.

Time will tell.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 08, 2006, 07:55:25 pm
I guess all the "LU is dead" when Braier is gone stuff is in my view, over the top.  Yes, Chris is great and we will miss him.  But last night we had 3 frosh in the game (Kadison, Kroeger and Page) a soph (Hurley) and a senior and we didn't give up a lot.  I see the depth as the reason we should be tough in the future, not the weakness.

Watch Kroeger and Rosenblatt and other underclassmen score--when its needed--and next year it will be.  And why would another crop of frosh stay away--we can reload in 2006/2007.

Don't move the MWC conference tournament yet.  It should be at Alex a few more times in the near future.  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: larry_u on January 08, 2006, 10:28:03 pm
Few things to add to the LU/RC discussion

Lu has now won 6 times in a row in Alex..five regular season meetings in a row, and then the MWC championship game last year.


The 7-1 foul ratio was with 16 minutes to go in the 2nd half, however, majicially as things alwasy seem to go, with 12 minutes to go, the fouls were 7-6....


Bradley is a stud, Braier is god, and LU rules.

They defenitely looked a little rusty, but they got through it.  Hopefully all will be well the rest of the year.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 08, 2006, 11:13:25 pm
JeffP, I hope (for MC's sake) that the Scots will be looking to heal some road wounds with a W at home Tuesday night.   Maverick, FS13 and Schwan "Pulitzer" Man ought to provide some good recaps.

scottie - I'm with you buddy!  Here's hoping that the Scots get that elusive first MWC win of the season and, like jeffp said, MC is about due to put it all together and hopefully have a good run for the remainder of the schedule. :)  The Titans don't have a game Tuesday night so I'm planning on being there to take in the action (we usually have games on Tuesdays but not this week).
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 08, 2006, 11:21:28 pm
"The 7-1 foul ratio was with 16 minutes to go in the 2nd half, however, majicially as things alwasy seem to go, with 12 minutes to go, the fouls were 7-6...."

Larry_U

And magically LU didn't foul again until the 5:50 mark...amazing.  LU shot 32 FT to Ripon's 18....enough said.


"I guess all the "LU is dead" when Braier is gone stuff is in my view, over the top.  Yes, Chris is great and we will miss him.  But last night we had 3 frosh in the game (Kadison, Kroeger and Page) a soph (Hurley) and a senior and we didn't give up a lot.  I see the depth as the reason we should be tough in the future, not the weakness."

T2K

I don't understand your logic.  Briaer played 38 minutes and made just about every big play needed.  I give credit to Bradley for knocking down what...EVERY SHOT he took, but nights like those aren't an everyday occurance (ask Dee Brown).  Plus saying LU is going to be down as well is a testament to how good MaGillis is.  He is a lock down defender and can guard bigger wings (who guards Johnson next year?) He, like his brother, has ice in his vains and is an amazing competitor.  Like I said earlier, LU does a nice job running offense even with the underclassman, but they are very small...quick, but small.  With Briaer gone rebounding might be a problem.

Anyways, I really didn't want to make this into a "next year" conversation with three months still to play.  This was the first time I got a chance to see Briaer in person from a fans perspective and it was just amazing to me to see how much his teammates responded to him...just exactly how many plays he makes....he is a play maker.  I have no doubt as long as Tharp is at LU, that they will be one of the top programs in this league for years to come.  But the dominance that was displayed for the last 3 years and counting is something that you won't see again until a player like Braier comes a long again....and as you can see, no one else has ever done what Braier has done in a four year period.

Oh yeah Osland or whoever was the center for LU looked real sweet with his high socks on sat.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on January 09, 2006, 12:09:41 pm
I know Gillespie will have his boys fired up for the game, and with as much time in between games he has every play analyzed.  They WILL be ready for the game, but once tip-off starts, it's all up to the players.  Work together boys and good things will happen.

Something that was brought to my attention earlier this year that I hadn't thought about....  Does anyone think the lack of results this season for the Ripon men has anything to do with the absence of a certain assistant coach this season?  It seemed in the past when things were going rough for the Hawks, you could typically see Bob going down to the end of the bench to talk to Gordie.   Now without Gordie their, Bob has kind of lost that resource, and one could argue it has really hurt the Hawks this season. 

I'd be curious to hear what Ripon followers have to say.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 09, 2006, 12:28:05 pm
Cubs -

I haven't really thought of that, but you bring up a great point.  For all of us who were blessed to be coached by Gordie, you know he is as special of a coach alive today.  Gordie was always there to calm Bob down or offer suggestions and thoughts to game plans...his knowledge was endless.  He is definitely missed.  I would have to say more then anything though could be the absence of assistant coach Brian Vraney.  He is now the assistant coach at Lake Forest College and will soon some day run in own college program.  He played bball with Michael Finely and Coach Conger at UW in the mid 90's.  If you had to ask me who Bob misses more, it is definitely Gordie, but if you had ask me who the players miss as far as development and hands on coaching...it has to be Vraney.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 09, 2006, 01:01:54 pm
Did Gordie retire or pass away? I noticed he wasn't there but I didn't realize he had any significant role, just thought he got a good seat that way.  My condolences if the latter is true. 

With all due respect, I think the coach on the floor (Becker) is missed the most.  While the Ripon guards are good, they didn't maintain their cool on Saturday. 
I'm sure Coach Gillespie had a talk with them about that on Saturday night.



 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 09, 2006, 01:29:10 pm
all this talk of ripon losing at alex had me wondering.  When is the last time MC won at LF.  the talent and final standings have been similar over the years but i know i cant remember the last time MC chopped the trees in chicago.....

schwannman, any insight????
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 09, 2006, 01:35:10 pm
No no no,  sorry if i made it sound like Gordie has passed, but he decided to go back home in Joliet to coach for St. Francis College again (baseball).  Gordie helped out with the Ripon's big men mostly, but like I said his knowledge was endless and was always there to calm/help Bob out...players for that matter as well

T2K-

That's a good point...Ripon, more then anything is missing Becker's ability and Massen's leadership (although he is coaching). Ripon, specifically soph. guard Wise, lost their cool which killed any shot of an upset...despite the late technical, Ripon still managed to cut the lead to 4 with two minutes to go...If Wise doesn't reach in and then compound it with a Technical, we are looking at possibly a different outcome. What I thought was weird was a different official called the technical then the one who Wise was arguing with.  I'm not saying Wise didn't deserve it, but why would another official call a technical for a situation that was being handled by the other official?? It didn't make sense...you would think the other guy would have better judgement of the call...especially at the point in the game...quick whistle.  How about that last play that sealed when McMullen had a sure steal on a weak skip pass to the corner which somehow he missed and deflected into Bradly's hands for a 4 point play...unreal.  Needless to say, I hope Ripon comes away with the confidence that they can play with anyone in our league in any gym.  This was the closet game I've seen in Alex in 5 years (not counting the Conference championship game).  They made again more FG's then LU, but the FT line killed them. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 09, 2006, 02:14:07 pm
all this talk of ripon losing at alex had me wondering.  When is the last time MC won at LF.  the talent and final standings have been similar over the years but i know i cant remember the last time MC chopped the trees in chicago.....

schwannman, any insight????

Old Fighting Scot - I know I'm not Schwann Man, but I think I can help you out with your question anyway.  After doing a little research on the MC website, I found the last time the Scots won at LFC was during the 2002-03 season.  It gave the Scots a good win in the final game of that season which was a very rough year (I remember 'cause I was still there at that time :)).  Prior to that, MC won at LFC in both the 1997-98 and 1998-99 seasons.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 09, 2006, 03:09:10 pm


T2K-

That's a good point...Ripon, more then anything is missing Becker's ability and Massen's leadership (although he is coaching). Ripon, specifically soph. guard Wise, lost their cool which killed any shot of an upset...despite the late technical, Ripon still managed to cut the lead to 4 with two minutes to go...If Wise doesn't reach in and then compound it with a Technical, we are looking at possibly a different outcome. What I thought was weird was a different official called the technical then the one who Wise was arguing with.  I'm not saying Wise didn't deserve it, but why would another official call a technical for a situation that was being handled by the other official?? It didn't make sense...you would think the other guy would have better judgement of the call...especially at the point in the game...quick whistle.  How about that last play that sealed when McMullen had a sure steal on a weak skip pass to the corner which somehow he missed and deflected into Bradly's hands for a 4 point play...unreal.  Needless to say, I hope Ripon comes away with the confidence that they can play with anyone in our league in any gym.  This was the closet game I've seen in Alex in 5 years (not counting the Conference championship game).  They made again more FG's then LU, but the FT line killed them. 


Good to hear Gordie is alive and kickin'  :)

I saw that T on Ripon and it confused me too.  My guess is that he may have been on a short leash with that ref already and some action caused him to blow the fuse.   Too bad, it did make a huge difference in sealing the game for LU, would have been real tight otherwise.

Similarly, did you see how the ref jumped at Tharp after he called the T on the LU bench (I assume it was something Tharp said although maybe not)?   Tharp and the three refs were in a circle in front of the bench after the T was called and John said something and the ref said something and John said something (looked normal under the circumstances) and then the ref physically lunged at John.  The other refs grabbed him before the LU assistants pulled John away.  It was sorta unusual.  If John would have done that he would have been run or worse...I assume the other refs were protecting their guy because it looked like he was going after Tharp with too much vigor.     

I'd like to hear what was said, or maybe it was just cumulative effect.  No question they missed a call a few times down before in front of the LU bench, there may have been some catting from multiple people as it was an obvious miss and the cover call was wrong.  Maybe 15 minutes into the first half so not a critical game changer.

Ripon looked pretty tough, I am suprised they are 2-7, I expect to see them in the MWC tourney anyway. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 09, 2006, 04:24:29 pm
T2K,

Yeah, a very very strange altercation....I was thinking what is Tharp doing??? I couldn't believe he got a tech so soon so I assume it was for compounding comments. (I remember he lost his cool a couple years ago getting two T's and his team lost by four @ Ripon). The guy who called the Tech on Tharp was the guy who Wise was complaining to...and seemed to compose himself while Wise began his rant...then came some other official from left field and called it on him...again, the officials were equally bad for both teams.  I don't understand how we can't get solid officials for these marquee games.  Officials have to realize that the rivalry between RC and LU is like no other in this league and sometimes they need to grow some thicker skin (my respects to MC and Knox).

You also bring up the idea of a "make up or Cover call."  Which I'm assuming you mean when the refs miss an obvious foul and then make it up with a touchy foul or even a no foul call.  We all know the foul count was 7 to 1 early in the 2nd half, but as you stated it quickly went from 7-1 to 7-6 by the 10:00 mark.  It just seems like there are agenda on some of these officials minds.  I'll never forget the game LU @ Ripon last year when the bald official told me before the game that he wasn't going to give Ripon any calls because of something he overheard me say (about how bad refs are) during the Girls game before. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 09, 2006, 06:40:57 pm
Another reason that Ripon fans should keep their mouths shut !!   ;D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 09, 2006, 09:57:12 pm
congrats to larry u on moving up to 6th place in the poll this week!  :-* :o :D 8)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: polek2 on January 09, 2006, 10:38:57 pm
Ok, Ripon's Big Men are good this year because that  vraney assistant coach is gone!  How are Lake Forest's big men doing this year? Probably worse then last year with vraney.  The guy is clueless and if he gets a head coaching job it will drop like a stone.  He is not a players coach all he does is bark and make people run.  It is his way or the highway and his way is usually wrong!  As a person he is a great guy.  He just doesn't know basketball that well. 

Gordie is a good calming affect on Gillie because gordie can talk back to gillie without making him mad. 

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 10, 2006, 12:07:16 am
I think Jurecko is pretty good.   ;D

Congrats to Bopper and the boys on their number 6 ranking.  Hopefully, they'll pass up IWU next week.  Is this their highest ranking?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 10, 2006, 12:14:58 am
Might only be #6 for a day so they should enjoy all 24 hours of it. I wouldn't bet on Beloit winning tomorrow but it wouldn't shock me either. Things are falling in place for an upset. Beloit will be rested and LU just had a fight on their hands. Could be a tendency to look past this one and get tripped up.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 12:18:11 am
I think Jurecko is pretty good.   ;D

Congrats to Bopper and the boys on their number 6 ranking.  Hopefully, they'll pass up IWU next week.  Is this their highest ranking?

The win by Lawrence that got them big-time attention was over then-#2 Oshkosh.  Since that has now been shown to be a misunderstanding, what other credentials do you have?!

(Actually, I DO have Lawrence in my #6 spot, but unless IWU loses again I can't see ever moving Lawrence above them.  Your better hope is that Albion and Hope meet this week - keep winning and you might pass the loser of that game!)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 10, 2006, 12:18:35 am
scottie

I think they were 4th last year at the start...coming off the NCAA quarterfinals the year before.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 10, 2006, 12:22:39 am
The Roop,

I, too, will root for "bel-WAH"! ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 10, 2006, 12:50:38 am
I think Lawrence is the real deal.  But, I don't think they deserve the ranking they have right now.  They beat an overrated Oshkosh team and they've beaten LMC foe MSOE.  That's the only teams they've played that have .500+ winning %s.  That's not saying much.

I was surprise to see Lawrence outside the preseason Top 25, but I think the voters went overboard a little bit to "make up" for their early season omission.  It also helps that a lot of teams in the lower half of the Top 25 had lost, helping Lawrence move up quickly.

Lawrence is in a weak conference, with really only Carroll standing in the way...and a trip to Ripon where you can "throw out the records".  Grinnell may also catch them by surprise.  So, Lawrence has a good chance to run the table.  But, they'll have to prove that outstanding record come tourney time against the big boys in the sectionals since the West Region looks pretty weak thus far (assuming they are thrown in the West Region and not in with the CCIW teams).

For the record, I picked Lawrence in the Survivor Pool 2. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 10, 2006, 07:05:19 am
Old School:

Look at recent action around the country--IWU beat Carthage by 1--LU handled Carthage on th road a few weeks ago.  Transitive theory says LU is pretty good.

Vanguard win is big.

Two wins at home, 7 on the road.

Beat Oshkosh 3 years in a row.  Don't ask me why, I used to think it was that TVD didn't take them seriously, now I think they are just better than Oshkosh.

This is not a fluke and you know it.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2006, 08:13:23 am
Look at recent action around the country--IWU beat Carthage by 1--LU handled Carthage on th road a few weeks ago.  Transitive theory says LU is pretty good.

Yeah. Too bad that the transitive theory is a lot of hooey.

Vanguard win is big.

Vanguard is a middling (8-7, 2-3) program in a very good NAIA-1 conference. Since you're so keen on the transitive theory, you should note that the Lions beat a team by one point (Concordia-Irvine) that Carthage whipped by 14 in their second meeting. As credentials go, Lawrence's win over Vanguard is pretty decent, but hardly "big". The win over UW-Oshkosh is more impressive.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 10, 2006, 10:29:07 am
With any kind of luck, I'll get to MC tonight to see most of the Womens game and the mens game between GC and MC. Looking forward to my first road trip of the season!

Any MC posters gonna be there tonight? Look for the short guy with the black Grinnell Basketball hat and shirt, and the grey goat and pony tail cowering in the miniscule Grinnell section. It'd be great to run in to you!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 10, 2006, 11:12:55 am
Polek2~

I'm not sure who you are or what your experience was with Vraney as a coach or player, but the Ripon Bigs....mainly Brian Schmitting is just starting to come into his own and a lot of it had to do with what Vraney did developing Schmitting his first two years in the league (countless ind. workouts).  Brian will be an excellent coach wherever he goes because he does have that "old school" no nonsense...DICK BENNETT...defense first mentality.  But he's also a guy you can talk to.  He's very intense and brings a lot to any coaching staff.  As a guy who played under Bennett and coached under Gillespie, I'd hope he'd know SOMETHING.  FYI I used to hear horror stories of Conger setting up garbage buckets at each end of the court for his players to throw-up in during suicides.  In my opinion coaches can sometimes be too soft on their players and really should demand a lot more discipline.

In my opinion LU is extremly deserving of their ranking and probably should be ranked higher.  This isn't a team that just showed up and ran up a 9-0 record vs. bad competition.  This is their fourth year of being an elite team with one of the best players in the country in Briaer.  I don't think they are as good as their teams in the past, but as old school stated, the West Region isn't as strong anymore without a dominate point squad.  Good luck beating LU in Alex.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 10, 2006, 11:16:25 am
The Schwan Man will be in the house. I look forward meeting to you. My guess is that Fighting Scots 13 and Maverick will be around also. Old Fighting Scot will be here in spirit, though I don't think he'll make the trip back from Cali (I could be wrong, but I doubt!).

Scottie, what do you think ... a trip to Monmouth tonight to see the Scots, the system and JeffP?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Mission Man on January 10, 2006, 12:10:34 pm
Jeff, Schwannie ó I'll be at the the Monmouth-Grinnell game tonight ó come up to press row on the bench side of the gym.  I'd like to meet all of you.  You can't miss me, I'm the bald blonde guy covering the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 10, 2006, 12:27:18 pm
It is mid-late-morning here and it is looking more likely that Patricia and I will make that trip! Look forward to see you, Schwannman, FS13, Marverick, Scottie(maybe), Mission Man and any others who might be willing to escort us out of Glennie after the thrashing Grinnell gives the Scot's tonight.

Wait, that might not work, huh? I will be safe there, huh? ....right?....won't I?.....

Seriously, I expect a couple of exciting games tonight, and wish I didn't have to turn right around to head home. I'm sure you guys could debauch my tender old soul somewhere, eh? Oh well. The 5:30 AM shift will keep me in line and out the door.

See you folks tonight!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 10, 2006, 12:37:49 pm
Mission Man -- You know me already. I was part of your 11th biggest sports story of 2005.

Thanks for the press on that, by the way.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 10, 2006, 12:41:41 pm
This is not a fluke and you know it.

I think Lawrence is the real deal. But, I don't think they deserve the ranking they have right now.

Those are my first two sentences titan2k.  I didn't say they weren't.  I just don't think they have played anyone, aside from Oshkosh...and I guess Vanguard.

Oshkosh 10-4 (was preseason #2), very nice, big, whatever win.
MSOE 11-4 (just 6-4 outside the LMC, which is pretty bad)
WLC 4-10
Ill. College 5-5
Knox 3-5
Carthage 4-8 (I think they are better than their record)
Goucher 0-11
Vanguard 8-7
Ripon 2-7

I give Lawrence a lot of credit because they've beaten everyone they've played.  I think there are only 6 undefeated teams left in D3.  But their schedule is hardly tough thus far.  Like I said before, Grinnell and Carroll and at Ripon are really only the tough games I see Lawrence playing.

I know they are good, I've seen them play.  But I don't think they'll be battle tested come tourney time.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 10, 2006, 12:44:43 pm
Jeff, Schwannie ó I'll be at the the Monmouth-Grinnell game tonight ó come up to press row on the bench side of the gym.  I'd like to meet all of you.  You can't miss me, I'm the bald blonde guy covering the game.

 ??? ??? ???
A bald blonde guy?!?!

I think I'd have to get too close and too personal to know if a bald guy is blonde, but I expect a full report from all that are there...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 10, 2006, 12:54:34 pm
DAMN!  You guys are planning a reunion tonight!!!  JeffP, what are you doing to me??? I think I am equal distant with you to Monmouth from the East, but don't think I can make it.  In reality, I've got a visitation to attend tonight and too much work to sneak out.

Double Damn!! 

Jeff P in Glennie
Mission Man and M & M's
Have fun and Go Scots!   
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 10, 2006, 12:56:42 pm
If nothing else, there should be a lot of 3's between the Scots and the Pioneers. Monmouth is shooting 28 a game (and making nearly 11). Add that to the 59 a game the Pioneers take (making 22), and the rebounding game should be very interesting.  

Who's got the best chance for a triple double?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 10, 2006, 02:52:25 pm
On the Road in 10 minutes-dueling reports from MC vs GC tomorrow!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 10, 2006, 02:54:24 pm
jeffp - I'm planning on being there tonight.  Will have to look around for you in Grinnell's large fan section.

schwanman - I had a feeling you were gonna be at tonight's game--I must have some kind of magical powers to see the future! :)  Assumed that Fighting Scots 13 would probably be around too, but kind of disappointed that Old Fighting Scot won't jump on a plane back from Cali to take in tonight's action.  Same with Snydz catching a plane or hopping in his car over there in Ohio...ha, just kidding there guys!  You'll be there in spirit like schwannie said.

Mission Man - I figured you would be at the game also--more of those magical powers! :D

scottie - Too bad you can't make it over to this side of Illinois for tonight's contest.  Good haiku though...

It's also too bad that the MC students aren't back on campus yet so Glennie probably won't have the typical amount of fans; on the other hand, maybe it'll be around normal since the "system" will bring in some fans that aren't normally at games.  Anyhow, I'll be the guy in the Titans jacket...or maybe some classic Scots gear--ah who knows?!  Hope to see some posters around tonight!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 10, 2006, 02:57:19 pm
I've heard Joe Terwelp described as having a game similar to Kent Froebe, who almost always led the Scots in scoring against the Grinnies, including a near quadruple double in 1998 with 35 points, 10 rebounds, 11 assists and I think 8 turnovers.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 10, 2006, 02:59:39 pm
JeffP - Be sure to wipe your feet before you enter the Huff Center.  That's real gold in the flooring.   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 10, 2006, 03:33:51 pm
Old School,
I think you underestimate Larry.  I was at the Ripon game, and Ripon gave them a hard game.....reguardless of the record that was a big win for Lawrence.  And I would have to say Ripon is better than their record.  Even Larry fans said that after the game. 
Oh yeah, Braier is a machine. 

mwc4life and I sat together at the game, and you should have seen when they annouced him....last of course of the 5....But the other 4 came through announced and the crowd and team cheered, but when Braier stepped through announced, the team and crowd erupted!!  No larry fan was seated and the team just responds to him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Old Fighting Scot on January 10, 2006, 04:37:04 pm
I will indeed be there in spirit. 

system fan, MC will not deploy the long bombers tonite.  MC very rarely shoots 3's against the system.  Beaird and Hebler will probably be the only two Scots that even have shooting a single trey on their mind tonite.  Ol tg usually tries to employ the beat them with two and at the line strategy against the pioneers.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 10, 2006, 04:41:00 pm
Old School,
I think you underestimate Larry.  I was at the Ripon game, and Ripon gave them a hard game.....reguardless of the record that was a big win for Lawrence.  And I would have to say Ripon is better than their record.  Even Larry fans said that after the game. 
Oh yeah, Braier is a machine. 

mwc4life and I sat together at the game, and you should have seen when they annouced him....last of course of the 5....But the other 4 came through announced and the crowd and team cheered, but when Braier stepped through announced, the team and crowd erupted!!  No larry fan was seated and the team just responds to him.

Early - "reguardless"?   You must be consumed with the absence of Steve Cool...this board is reguardless.  He's "wanted dead or alive."   8)

An "early" prediction: MC 98, Pios 92 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 10, 2006, 04:57:29 pm
Roop and other Beloit supporters:

A few years ago my 5 year old son heard me tell my wife that LU played Beloit and he told me, with a smile on his face, that Beloit was  "the underwater fart city"  ::)

From the mouths of babes........if you don't get it, just imagine it.   :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 10, 2006, 06:18:30 pm
Yes, that's a little Wisconsin humor that has been around for as long as I can remember. Can't give you any applauds for it because it's an old joke to me. Although it is the time I've heard it in the 5+ years I've been back in Wisconsin. Which leads me to a joke for you..........

Does your wife still talk in her sleep ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 10, 2006, 09:15:50 pm
Roop:

I heard here talking the other night.  She said that if she did it with a Beloit grad it wasn't considered "cheating".  Something about needing to know it.  ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 10, 2006, 10:03:32 pm
That could very well be true as I didn't go there. Better keep listening  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tps040580 on January 10, 2006, 10:04:13 pm
Knox 59
Lake Forest 55
Maclin got 15 points

Ripon 65
St. Norbert 53
Schmitting 9-10 shooting for 20 points
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: polek2 on January 10, 2006, 10:15:06 pm
mwc4life,
Just cuz you played for and coached with good coaches doesn't mean you are a good coach.  Unfortunatly you can't learn by osmosis.  Obviously we are going to disagree on this matter.  As far as Ripon big men go this is the first time in a very very long time that Ripon has a inside bigman that is a focal point in the offense.  Usually Ripon is all about guard play.  So over Vraney's career at Ripon who were the other big time big men that he so amazingly coached?   It is interesting that he finally leaves and a big man starts playing well, which I think may be attributed to the fact that the big men no longer waste practice time doing pointless ungamelike drills that I have witnessed vraney running.  Also seeing Vraney force big men on defense to fully front their mark at the high post lost him a lot of points in my book, luckly a player confronted him on it got yelled at which brought Gillie over who then sided with the player and said fronting the high post is dumb we arn't going to do that.  So that is my opinion and what it is based on.  Like I said in my first post.  He is a good guy nothing against him personally just his coaching.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 10, 2006, 10:31:06 pm
Any word on the GC-MC game? Curious fans want to know.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 10, 2006, 10:34:03 pm
Final from Glennie:
Grinnell 128 - Monmouth 125 (OT)

Close game all the way through the entire 45 minutes of play--that being said, the Scots should have had this one but let it get away late in regulation.  Too many missed opportunities (missed lay-ups and missed free throws) in the final minutes of the second half.  If those are made, MC takes the lead by 5-6 points rather than keeping the score at a tie or a one-possession game late.  I'll wait for now to see what schwanman, Fighting Scots 13, or any other poster that was there has to say on the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 10, 2006, 10:40:43 pm
Sounds like a helluva game.  Gotta make those free throws...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 10, 2006, 10:47:10 pm
Tps040580~

You beat me to the punch!  (dam, i was going to pick KC over LFC too!)

Any other updates?

Ripon beats SNC by 12 and the final score was as close as SNC got the whole 2nd half.

http://www.ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/0506Season/mbbgm10.htm


Some strange stats for the game:

Ripon shoots over 60% as a team at home and McMullen gets 1 pt. playing only 25 minutes. Wise gets 3 pts in 34 some odd minutes??? Where was the guy that tore LU apart...need more consistancy.  It's good to see one guy keep getting better and better (schmitting).

I still haven't figured out why Ripon doesn't go to Schmitting every possesion.  9/10 FG....are you kidding!!!  Good to see Bo Johnson bounce back with a really good shooting night.  Ripon scores 1 pt. in the first 6 1/2 minutes of play before waking up. 

Polek2

Well, it sounds to me like you had some personal problems that you witnessed/experienced to arrive at your opinion.  Since I never played down low I can't really tell you from my experience what he did for me.  All I know is that he cared a lot about helping Ripon Basketball.  He stayed after to help players, he demanded workouts, he got on everyone for lifting, he ran the off-season training, watched a ton of game tape, he drove a ways from work to be at Ripon for practice and he was very apart of the game-plans.  These are all things good coaches do.  He has a defensive mentality and I'm willing to bet you that if he ever gets his own gig that all his players play real hard...he demands it.  Since we're obviously not going to agree and whatever life experience you had ruined your idea of him being a coach cause he...fronted the post and did ungamelike drills (which are what by the way) then we should drop it. 

"As far as Ripon big men go this is the first time in a very very long time that Ripon has a inside bigman that is a focal point in the offense. Usually Ripon is all about guard play."

-Is this because Vraney was a bad coach that this is the first year Ripon's had a true big man?  You don't think he had anything to do with Schmitting's development? Ripon IS usually a guard oriented team that doesn't do a great job of feeding it inside...Vraney's fault? 

"So over Vraney's career at Ripon who were the other big time big men that he so amazingly coached?"

Scott Landish, Kieck, Liska, Vraney, Butrym....anyways he did a lot more then coach the bigs.  He never really had a player the liked playing with his back to the basket.  When you had guards like Glocke, Kohl, Becker its hard not to be.  But Schmitting just got good over night.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 10, 2006, 10:59:06 pm
LU 65 Beloit 61
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 10, 2006, 11:09:33 pm
Away games are always tough when everyone is gunnin for you
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 10, 2006, 11:22:55 pm
Ummmmm....I'm not going to say nuttin, but....that dude aint rite!

Check out John Grotberg's stat line in Grinnell's improbable comeback 128-125!


http://www.midwestconference.org/mbasketball/GCMC1-10m.htm
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 10, 2006, 11:29:43 pm
Whew!

Tough one to lose for either team, and especially the Scots, who fall to 0-4 in the league (the last two in OT).

Some early observations:

Grotberg can take over a game much like Steve Wood could. He was very impressive.

Monmouth was very poor at the line (23-of-40). No excuses, you gotta knock 'em down, but it has to be tough to calm yourself down and regain your composure to shoot free throws after playing at that hectic pace. It's almost like Grinnell's style allows it to have a sort of built-in "free throw defense."

Not my style to complain about officiating, but an awful lot of touch fouls get missed in a Grinnell game. Their kids make some great hustle plays, tapping away balls from behind, but many times when they go for a steal, it isn't called, and play continues.

This isn't an original thought, but I wonder what would happen if someone played a zone vs. Grinnell? I know it seems bizarre to sit back in a zone against a three-point shooting team, but here a few areas where it would help the opponent:

1) It would take away a lot of Grinnell's isolation plays, where Grotberg or Arseneault penetrate (almost at will) and score from two feet.
2) It would negate the defensive confusion caused by bringing in five new men to guard at a time.
3) It might help with rebounding, as the defenders would all be packed in the lane after the shot went up.

Great to meet JeffP at the game! I look forward to your thoughts.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: polek2 on January 10, 2006, 11:33:42 pm

"So over Vraney's career at Ripon who were the other big time big men that he so amazingly coached?"

Scott Landish, Kieck, Liska, Vraney, Butrym....anyways he did a lot more then coach the bigs.  He never really had a player the liked playing with his back to the basket.  When you had guards like Glocke, Kohl, Becker its hard not to be.  But Schmitting just got good over night.
Ok I am done after this, except for two points based on basketball not personnel issues or problems with people just based on how they coach or play from my gathered knowledge.
1.  It is not a personnel issue or problem it is a basketball theory/scheme/knowledge issue.  Like I said before he is a good dude.  It is the issue if he did not have a good head coach in front of him he would be a poor coach in my opinion which is based on what I have seen and discussed with other players/people who witnessed Ripon basketball pre vraney and with vraney.  
2. "Big time Big men" ok, lets be real on the Big Time Big Men:  Landish was an great outside player, kieck good but nothing to special, liska good could have been great , Vraney huslter (not the magazine) a few spectacular but not much else, Butrym great player not a true "big man" though.  All great people.

So mwc4life it has been fun!  Go Redhawks! Booo Vikings! (LC and MN)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: gobucs on January 10, 2006, 11:56:38 pm
Wow a barnburner at Beloit,  Lawrence was ripe for the pickin'  but we couldn't get it done.  The game was decided at the freethrow line, and BC had too many turnovers.  Chris Braier was the hero once again.  Gotta get two this weekend at home, should help to have Horton back-didn't play tonight with sprained knee.  I'll have a hard time sleeping tonight!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 10, 2006, 11:58:06 pm
Old School,
I think you underestimate Larry.

I'm having a hard time figuring out where you thought I under-estimated Larry U.

I said they were good and I thought they should've been ranked in the pre-season.  I know Braier is a machine.  They took Point to OT two years ago before Point went on to win the big one.  Last year, they had a tough game at Quandt.  I have them picked as my survivor team as the last team to go undefeated over in the Survivor League board.  I mentioned that they could run the table...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 11, 2006, 12:12:53 am
MWC4life: "Improbable comeback?"  Let's not get over-dramatic here...there were 14 ties in this game.   ???

Allow me to pat myself on the back a second for my prediction on Terwelp's Froebe-esque (patent pending) night, albeit in a loss:

## Player Name            FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF  TP  A TO BLK S MIN
24 Joe Terwelp......... *   18-21    0-0       2-4     3   9   12   4   38  4  4    0   0  38

JeffP: Hope you enjoyed the Huff Center, and I guess the game as well.  Sorry I missed you.  Give me a few days notice next time.   :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 11, 2006, 12:29:55 am
Thanks for the report gobucs. You answered my question about the Hortonless boxscore. Sounded like a tough one but that's ok, once we're back to full strength we'll get em when they come back to Beloit for the MWC Tournament.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 11, 2006, 12:59:05 am
schwanman - You hit the nail square on the head with those observations.  1) Grotberg is basically the second coming of Steve Wood--can shoot from outside but seems like his game is taking the ball to the hoop and drawing contact (but he also does a good job using his arm that's off the dribble to create space between him and the man that's defending him, which I think should be an offensive foul but never really got called for it tonight).  2) MC was not good from the free throw line tonight and in the end it cost them a game that should've been a win.  3) It does sound like sour grapes, but oh well--I agree that in their press they do get away with some fouls that should be called and it just seems like the referees don't want to make a call everytime an opposing player gets fouled (which in their press happens quite often) and continually stop the game.  I didn't get to meet jeffp though--couldn't quite figure out who he was and where he was at over there in the Grinnell section. 

scottie - Good call on Terwelp, he really did have a good game tonight.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 11, 2006, 07:52:56 am
Roop:

If we have to come to Beloit for the MWC tourney I will introduce you to my wife since you don't know her. 

I don't think you'll meet her.  ;)

T2K
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 11, 2006, 08:36:37 am
MWC4life: "Improbable comeback?"  Let's not get over-dramatic here...there were 14 ties in this game.  ???

Allow me to pat myself on the back a second for my prediction on Terwelp's Froebe-esque (patent pending) night, albeit in a loss:

## Player Name            FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF  TP  A TO BLK S MIN
24 Joe Terwelp......... *   18-21    0-0       2-4     3   9   12   4   38  4  4    0   0  38

JeffP: Hope you enjoyed the Huff Center, and I guess the game as well.  Sorry I missed you.  Give me a few days notice next time.   :)

I had the same question on the improbable comeback description. The Scots had a 5 point lead at half and made the lead as large as 14 (with 17 minutes left), but in a game with Grinnell, 14 points isn't a big lead for either team.

It looks like Grinnell never trailed in the OT.

I also see that Monmouth took 20 3pts shots (making eight). Jeffp has been telling us this isn't the System we're used to, so did Monmouth adjust by taking more 3's? (They clearly did a decent job shooting them).

Comparing Grotberg to Steve Wood is quite a compliment for the freshman. Those of us who are Grinnell fans hope he continues to get better. I know I'm excited about the Freshman and Sophmores on this team - and not just for the future. 

Good call on Terwelp, but I was hoping to see someone with a triple double and no one came close. Hebler also had a double-double with 16 pts and 13 assists.

A good win for Grinnell on the road. Now comes the biggest road test. I'm looking forward to the webcast to see Grotberg and Braier play.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2006, 08:48:31 am
ok, JeffP, wake up! Sure it's a long drive back, but GC fans are waiting for your astute blow by blow. Sounded like a heck of a game.  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 11, 2006, 08:52:08 am
This isn't an original thought, but I wonder what would happen if someone played a zone vs. Grinnell? I know it seems bizarre to sit back in a zone against a three-point shooting team, but here a few areas where it would help the opponent:

Schwanman,
Ripon has played a zone against Grinnell.  Some games it worked to perfection, and other games it didn't.  It is a good idea, just depends really on the night Grinnell's shooters are having.  Rebounding is the biggest area the zone hurts you.  Sometimes you can't get to every player to box out on those long rebounds.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 11, 2006, 08:59:44 am
OK, I'm awake since 4:30! We've been a bit busy this AM so this post is a bit piece-meal:
GC 128
MC 125 (1 OT)

Man what a game last night! More barns were burned than I thought possible! Posts from Maverick and Schwannman are right on the mark. As Mission Man said to me after the game, the MC players were so tired they hit the front of the rim more often than not. GC certainly put 'em at the line enough. Of course that is one of the long time strategies of system play-run 'em hard, wear 'em down and hope they start missing shots.

GC seems to still be a bit out of sorts after the holidays, but this group doesn't give up, they just try something else-and luckily, they have the tools to make adjustments.

Did i mention what a great game this was? 14 lead changes, numerous ties, a furious one minute GC comeback from 11 points down in the early mid 2nd half to take a lead, this game had a bit of everything. Outside of FT shooting, MC had a great offensive game plan and played some magnificent defense-especially on the inside. One thing I don't understand is why MC didn't take more 3 pt shots. I know that some GC players were worried about this enough that they expressed concern early in the week about how to contain the 3 pt shot.

I did say this was an amazing game, didn't I? I was particularly impressed with Beaird (as always-boy, is he gonna be missed) and others mentioned in earlier posts, but two unsung heros for MC had to be inside players Moore and Price. Moore stuffed Schmidt several times and appeared  to alter the shot making of others whenever he was in. Price had a great defensive game.

I hope you know you missed a fantastic game here. Did I mention that before? Grotberg is something special and seems to get better  with every game. the more he understands what is happening, the more he can totally dominate a game. Jr started to play well in the mid second half after a rough start. He lead a very effective small line last night and will be the key to many games in the future. Ticus and Kennedy continue to make great timely plays at needed intervals, and Nordlund just flat out knows what is expected of him and delivers any way he can. Mike Schmidt had his game altered last night but played well again. It is so good to see him become such a complete player. Bobby Long continues to amaze with his speed and quickness. Seems like everytime he makes a mistake (happening less and less now) he makes up for it immediately with some crazy ass defensive play that leaves GC fans with their collective mouths wide open. Just plain exciting to watch.

Gol durn this game was something! Just a bit about the facility, though. The new complex here at Monmouth is absolutely first rate. I was stunned by the new indoor track/tennis/basketball facility and the way Glennie was incorporated into the design. Grinnell hired Cesar Pelle, the world famous architect, got a great Facility as well, but lost Old Darby. Monmouth at least hired an Architect that knew how to design around an existing structure. Many kudos here.  It does look like they couldn't hide the thermostat from Coach A though! ;D :D ;D

Sorry i missed  you Maverick! I'll try to be more obvious next time. It was a great pleasure to meet Mission Man and Schwannman! Hard to find folks as nice as these two are. Hope to see both of you again soon. Oh, I almost forgot to mention what an exemplary MWC game this was. WoW!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: schwanman on January 11, 2006, 09:24:06 am
Systemfan86 -- I'd have to say Hebeler came pretty close to a triple-double ... he was just two rebounds shy (16 points, 13 assists, 8 rebounds). I'm sure he's bumming about his six missed free throws, but he was a big reason why the Scots were in good position to win the game.

And to be fair about the officiating ... Monmouth did benefit from some calls, too, including a foul on a breakaway late in overtime that probably should have been ruled continuation and a basket. Instead, the Grinnell hoop was waved off, one of the two free throws was missed, and the Scots got one last chance to tie the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 11, 2006, 09:24:59 am
JeffP, how did you really feel about the game? 

Glad you had a good trip. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 11, 2006, 09:29:03 am
A few years ago, Monmouth was ranked among the leaders in the Nation all year long in FT %.   I guess it comes and goes...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 11, 2006, 09:29:57 am
I continue to be disapointed by the officiating in the MWC as well this year. I don't know if a collective D3hoops howl to the MWC comish would make a difference, but I can only suggest that it needs to be improved a great deal. Both teams suffered here, and a lot of the bad calls both ways seemed to be at critical times in the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2006, 09:32:12 am
(but he also does a good job using his arm that's off the dribble to create space between him and the man that's defending him, which I think should be an offensive foul but never really got called for it tonight)


Sadly, this never gets called anywhere anymore (or very rarely) so you can't fault the kid for doing it.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 11, 2006, 09:35:28 am
Scottie-
Sorry I didn't give you more of a heads up, but i didn't know for sure I was going to TRY to go til Tuesday morning, and REALLY for sure until late morning.

God Bless my early-returning-from-break staff!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Snydz822121 on January 11, 2006, 11:03:55 am
JeffP - I would like to appologize for the post I posted earlier.  I deleted my post I posted earlier due to it being inappropriate and uncalled for.  I am sorry for that remark and sorry to those people it pissed off.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 11, 2006, 11:31:51 am
Gratefully accepted, snydz. Consider the matter forgotten.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Badger5 on January 11, 2006, 11:37:10 am
Quote
I saw that T on Ripon and it confused me too.  My guess is that he may have been on a short leash with that ref already and some action caused him to blow the fuse.   Too bad, it did make a huge difference in sealing the game for LU, would have been real tight otherwise.
Quote

Saw the game at LU and the kid from Ripon bumped the official...the other official called it...I am guessing, because he saw the kid bump him.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 11, 2006, 12:41:00 pm
Badger~

I think he probably deserved the T too, but who do you think knows more about the play?  The ref who it happened to or the ref, who by the way missed sooo many calls, who thought he saw a bump? All I'm saying is that you normally never see that happen...it should be up to the official who is having the altercation because he knows the circumstances better

-apologize for the over dramatic statement...I obviously wrote that before seeing the play-by-play stat sheet

-Is it becoming more clear to LU fans that 1) They aren't as tough as they have been (still better then anyone else in our league). 2.) Briaer again saves the day along with MaGillis...

-Steve Wood was the first guy that popped in my head when I saw Grotberg's stat line....in only 19 minutes!!!

-MC is 0-4 in the league...I wouldn't want to be playing those guys any time soon because they are due to bust out.

-Is Knox for real? They come in to play Ripon this weekend.  What about LFC?

-With a 4-0 start in the league, Grinnell has all but wrote its ticket to the conference tourney...one more road victory should seal it for a great home team.

-What happened to St. Norbert's program?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 11, 2006, 01:15:57 pm
-With a 4-0 start in the league, Grinnell has all but wrote its ticket to the conference tourney...one more road victory should seal it for a great home team.
I hope you're right. I wondered about that when I looked at the league standings; although I think I approached it as "How many losses will get you into the tourney and does Grinnell have a chance to reached that threshold based on their 4-0 start?"

I was surprised when I looked at the standings and there were only 3 teams with overall records better than .500 (LU, GC, and Carroll). Given that GC only has to play Carroll once, and they get them in Iowa, it would appear at this point in the season that they have a decent chance. If nothing else, they are in control of their 'destiny' in that respect.

And, at the risk of jumping wa-a-a-y too far ahead, are we at a point where the right situation to get two teams into the NCAA tournment is taking shape? Given their ranking and unblemished record, Larry U is a very good bet. If they were to lose the automatic bid in the conference tournament, I'm pretty certain they get a bid anyway. If Carroll or Grinnell can get through the conference season with say, 2 (maybe 3) losses, and then lose in the conference tournament final. They might have a shot. Carroll is a probably step ahead of Grinnell at this point: they have 1 close home loss to a good UWO team and they beat a team that Grinnell lost to in Carthage; Grinnell's other loss at this point was at home, but was to a very good (currently #19) Wartburg. If either of these teams gets to 3-4 losses, they might have a chance.   

Of course, we have a long conference season to complete before we get there and I'm sure there a couple teams out there that will have a say in whether either of these teams get there.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 11, 2006, 01:51:18 pm

Grinnell's been screwed before, but Carroll is getting respect.  It could be interesting to watch as it all plays out.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: d3bbfan on January 11, 2006, 02:01:58 pm
after watching the BC LU game last night i would not count beloit out for a 4th place finish in the conf. They are much improved over last year and for a couple of to's right at the end, the game could have just as easily gone their way. i was dissapointed to not see horton play. i hear he is a difference maker in the paint when he's on the floor. i think if bc plays this weekend like they did last night they should win both against ic and knox.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 11, 2006, 02:26:48 pm
Hoops Fan - Glad to see that someone else feels the same way that I do on that offensive fould matter.  And you're right, I don't fault the kid for doing it since the referees let it go each and every time so he's smart enough to take advantage of that--but it does bother me that officials have let it get to the point where it's common to just let it slide.

jeffp - Sorry I couldn't figure out who you were across the gym from where I was at.  There were several guys that I thought could've been you but I didn't know for sure (obviously).

Snydz - You pissed someone off?  No way! ;)  This is the first time I've checked the board since late last night so I missed whatever it was that you posted and angered people with.

mwc4life - I may have said this in a previous post (don't remember for sure), but it's  the same thing you were thinking...Grotberg is basically the second coming of Steve Wood.  He fills the same role in the system as Wood did during his time.  And speaking of Steve Wood, he was there at Glennie Gym last night; sat right behind the Grinnell bench while watching the game.  Also, as you said, MC is 0-4 in conference play right now but all of us Scots posters still believe that it could get turned around at anytime.  All 4 losses have been close games (the last 2 in OT) which could've gone either way down the stretch late in those games.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2006, 02:41:27 pm

Grinnell's been screwed before, but Carroll is getting respect.  It could be interesting to watch as it all plays out.

?? How has GC been screwed before? Just curious.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 11, 2006, 02:42:38 pm
mwc4life-
response to 3 points:

IMHO, Grotberg is already as good as Steve Wood 10 games in to his Collegiate career. I can't think of any more complete player this early-unless maybe it was Ed Brands or a guy named Kincaid who, as a frosh in 1965 or so led GC to a 13-0 record before he got kicked out of school for plagarism. As I recall GC never won another game that season.

Monmouth has to be one of the best 0-4 (conference record) teams in the country. I wouldn't be surprised by any upward movement from this team.

Just a wee bit early to get on the GC Tourney Bandwagon quite yet, but SF86 is quite right in stating that GC controls its own destiny. I think they will have a shot at it, but this conference can chew you up and spit you out on the road.

Maverick-i was in the back row directly behind the GC bench and spent some time talking to Mission Man and Schwannman in the center-back row during the break between the men's and womens games and at intermission of the men's game and a bit at the end of the game. did I mention that I thought it was a great game?
 ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 11, 2006, 03:00:49 pm
You know, the thing I find fascinating about this exchange is, I just can't figure out if JeffP liked the game last night! He's so damn shy and introverted.  ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 11, 2006, 03:03:59 pm
I don't care what anyone says, it was a GREAT GAME!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 11, 2006, 03:23:56 pm
I just want to know how many cups of Saints Rest coffee he [jeffp] took on the road to get him there and back? He may very well have earned that initial at the end of his moniker.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 11, 2006, 04:22:04 pm
JeffP and others:  Here's a link for a full tour of the site of the GREAT game last night.  On the exterior, you can see where the additions took place.  From the inside, it all looks new.  We Scots (and wee Scots) enjoy it.   

http://www.monm.edu/huff/tour/index.htm 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: LU_nut on January 11, 2006, 06:18:11 pm
JeffyP

What are your thoughts on the GC/LU game this Friday?
Sounds like GC has taken a big step up and if Grotberg is as good as Wood, I am anxious to see him play.

It seems to me that Tharp has figured out how to play GC as well as anybody (sit the big guys, no 3s on offense, etc.)
It is tough playing GC as a part of a double header, they really disrupt things in a double game weekend given their unique style of play.

Do you think GC can pull it off in Alex?

Nutty
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 12, 2006, 08:50:43 am
I don't know if GC can pull it off or not, Lu_nut, but I know this team wont quit til the 40 minute mark (or more if Ot is in the picture). I also know that Grotberg hasn't been slowed yet. Be sure to let me/us know what you think. Grinnell is a much better team than last year but it remains to be proven if they are top 4 MWC caliber. Friday and Saturday will tell us a lot more.

I also agree that Larry plays Grinnell as well if not better than anyone in the MWC. T. Heimann at Knox always seems to throw off the typical GC game. This year I think you will see some atypical system play however. Because of that, LArry will have to add a few wrinkles to keep pace. A GC win would be nice(from my point of view, anyway) but I also know that this will be the hardest roadtrip of the year for Grinnell. I'm glad Larry is first in line though. (I think) ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 12, 2006, 09:41:15 am
Having seen the team progress through the season, I'll say that a GC loss again LU would be a drag but might well propel them to a stronger finish (and the conference games). A win? Well, that would be nice, now, wouldn't it?  :) And LU will find out that there's more to the team than Grotburg....
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 12, 2006, 10:41:07 am
JeffP,

At 4-0 I'm afraid you'll have to change your tune a bit. You can't pretend Grinnell is the overwhelming underdog in every game anymore. Well, I suppose you can pretend but nobody will believe it.

Et Al

A week from now we will know if Ripon is going to contend this year or not. They have 3 more home games coming and probably need to win all 3 to make a statement. At the moment I can only give them 1 for sure, 1 probly aughta and 1 toss up. A 3-4 start would spell their doom because they still have Carroll twice, Lawrence once and they go to Beloit at the end of the season.

Beloit is sitting right where they need to be to make a run at the MWC Tournament. However, should they not win two this weekend their favorable schedule the rest of the way is no longer favorable. That would make the Wednesday game @Ripon a must win. @Ripon is not a good place to play must win games.

Monmouth.................. What's the problem ?? 0-4 means you can only drop 2 more to assure yourself a spot in the tournament. 9-7 teams will probably be watching from the stands this year.

LU and CC are in so the battle for the two remaining spots has begun. Although I'm not convinced they will be 1 and 2 at seasons end. Grinnell, Beloit and Ripon are next in line followed by Monmouth if they can overcome their start. Nothing impressive about Lake Forest or Knox's schedules thus far so I doubt they will make an impact. IC and STN were done before the season started.

Forget to set my alarm last night so I decided to make it a half day today. Since I get docked a 1/2 point whether I go in 1 minute late or 4 hours late, I chose the 4 hour plan. Made myself a RoopacinnoHD (recipe to be forwarded to JeffP) and I'm ready for the world now.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2006, 10:46:28 am

I'm rooting for a tight Larry win, maybe in OT so that Grinnell will be poised and sufficiently motivated for the rematch on the 28th, when I get to take in the system for the first time in person.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: MWCSID2005 on January 12, 2006, 12:18:36 pm
The Midwest Conference will webcast four contests with live audio and video free of charge on Friday, January 13.

The matchups feature Grinnell College at Lawrence University and Lake Forest College at Ripon College. The womenís contests tip-off at 5:30 p.m. with the menís contests to follow at 7:30 p.m. Links to the webcast are available at www.midwestconference.org and on the athletic websites of each participating institution.

The release linked below gives more information on the webcast, as well as previews for each contest.

http://www.midwestconference.org/wbasketball/WebStreamJan12.pdf
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 12, 2006, 12:30:09 pm
Can they pull it off in Alex? At the risk of being cliche, that's why they play the game. It's a tall order, of course, but this team continues to surprise me.

On the minus side: it's a long trip, you're playing against the #6 team in the country, and a lot of the players haven't played there before.

On the plus side: a lot of the players haven't been there before so the opponent doesn't know (first hand) the skills of some of the key players, they've already played a rank team this year, and classes haven't started yet (at Grinnell) so there's no impact there.

All in all, the minuses outweigh the pluses. I hope they play a good game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 12, 2006, 12:30:34 pm
Roop....graduating from "The Roop"


I'd say I agree with you on just about all you assessments:

-First and foremost....I think 9-7 gets you in the tournament this year.  I think our conference is waaaay too balanced this year and even LU seems like they can be beaten on any given night.

-I don't count out Lake Forest with players like Beckford, Klos, and Brown.

-I don't count out Knox with two keys to their success still back from last years team (zick, McClain)

-Jeffp, you are kind of right saying that we shouldn't all jump on GC's bandwagon (probably cause you still want to use the us vs. the world/ no respect approach like every team does) because the road is a very tough place to win on in this league.  But any team that starts 4-0 surely is in the driver's seat to as you said before, control their own destiny...If Grotberg is as good, if not better, then Wood...they should be alright.

-Note to all teams in the Midwest Conference that play Grinnell....shooting 20 three point shots against Grinnell will equal a loss every time ( MC shoots 8- 20 from beyond the arc).  You wont find LU shooting threes I guarentee you that!

-Big week for Ripon....Roop is absolutely right
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 12, 2006, 12:54:05 pm
So many choices, where to start? 

1.  Did anybody hear about the Grinnell/Monmouth game?  I heard it was great.

2.  I HOPE 9-7 gets into the tournament.  It might be the only way for the Scots.  IF 9-7 gets you in, then that usually means there are a ton of tie-breaker scenarios in the last weekend of play - which are always fun.  The Scots have SNC and Carroll on the road this weekend.  Given their struggles on the road, a 1-1 split would be a positive step...with a, sorry, "must win" home game against Knox next week.

3. Monmouth BB (Before Beaird) used to employ the "no 3's" strategy against The System, often with good success.  I think Beaird, since - you know - he's the best shooter in the history of the MWC, has the "green light" to shoot whenever he is open.  You have to admit that 8-20 against the defense of "The System" ain't too shabby.  It probably just comes down to the best use of your personnel.

4. Is it possible that with the loss to #2 Hope last night, Lawrence could pass them in the polls - up to #5?   

5. Nobody will be looking past Grinnell for the rest of the season, and the "underdog" moniker can be put away.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 12, 2006, 02:04:35 pm
Is there anyway the LU/Grinnell game can be switched to Saturday?  :D  Otherwise, postpone the game on Friday until about 11 pm, so I can make it!

I believe it would be mathematically impossible for a 9-7 conference record to make the top four.  Unless the top two go a combined 30-2 and then the bottom two do likewise (2-30) with #3 through #5 going 9-7 and #6-#8 going 7-9...or something like that!

Anyway, I don't see LU jumping Hope.  They lost to the #4 ranked team.  There is an 85 point gap between Lawrence and Hope.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 12, 2006, 02:15:27 pm
Now, now, folks! I haven't suggested that GC is in an underdog role this year, I just would like to know that they can beat a team with a better-than-.500 average before i go off. GC hasn't won at Larry OR Ripon since Coach A has been here and has only pulled off a few against St Norbert. At least we don't have to play at Carroll this year.

I personally think this is a great team and  think they can make the tourney this year, but they could be 4-2 on Sunday with Ripon yet to be played at Ripon and Carroll and Larry yet to be played at Grinnell. Knox and LFC always play GC tough at home, too. Let my warts worry for a few weeks, will ya? ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: titan2000 on January 12, 2006, 02:22:02 pm
My son and daughter will go to the LU Grinnell game with me and after I will have to explain to them that the lack of quality shots taken by Grinnell is not what they should have focused on; rather, the discipline of LU and the victory over the Grinnell Circus (oh I meant system) is the key takeaway.

Good luck to Grinnell, sometime I need to get to the Saints Rest but I will ask for the basics--good fundamental black coffee, no frilly sugars or whipped cream,  passed well, no spills--just like the LU game plan.

I hope I will be welcome.  I promise not to use my karma points for tips. 
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2006, 02:38:21 pm
I'm not going to be suprised about anything.  With the doubt the voters showed in Albion and the support they had for Hope, I wouldn't be suprised to see Hope drop below Larry.  I doubt it will happen without some help over the weekend, but it sure wouldn't suprise me.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: kbanya30 on January 12, 2006, 02:49:06 pm
Finally confernce play is picking up, exciting times. Me and wallace made the trip up to SNC this past weekend to watch our carroll team beat the knights. Next up for the pioneers is IC and Monmouth. Both are decent teams in the MWC and the carroll squad is def. not overlooking them. Carroll wins both games this weekend by 14 points.

Peace
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 12, 2006, 03:15:49 pm
Now, now, folks! I haven't suggested that GC is in an underdog role this year, I just would like to know that they can beat a team with a better-than-.500 average before i go off. GC hasn't won at Larry OR Ripon since Coach A has been here and has only pulled off a few against St Norbert. At least we don't have to play at Carroll this year.

I personally think this is a great team and  think they can make the tourney this year, but they could be 4-2 on Sunday with Ripon yet to be played at Ripon and Carroll and Larry yet to be played at Grinnell. Knox and LFC always play GC tough at home, too. Let my warts worry for a few weeks, will ya? ;D :D ;D

JeffP - So, you mean Grinnell could end up 9-7 and in that five-way tie for third?   ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 12, 2006, 03:25:50 pm
I'm not too sure if 9-7 will get you in the tourny.   I do agree that this year the conference is pretty balanced, but I think the top 4 will establish themselves by the end of the year....there may be some interesting tie breakers towards the end, but you can only get excited about that.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 12, 2006, 03:58:26 pm
Just for disagreeing with me you are getting smitted...and you teach math!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2006, 04:04:44 pm
And you get smited for spelling smited wrong!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 12, 2006, 04:22:32 pm
And you will also be smitten with my smited edge!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 12, 2006, 06:09:46 pm
Old School,

If it's "The System" you crave, don't forget that it makes a return visit to Wisconsin this year. Feb 3rd @Ripon and Feb 4th @Beloit. Those games are likely to mean more than this weekends games anyway. Grinnell could be 7-4 at the time with 4 of their last 5 games on the road.  Which is why I can't include them in the tournament just yet.


Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 12, 2006, 07:28:51 pm
I'm going to borrow from the DailyDose and have a rant.

608, it's not just an area code anymore........

After a fine recruiting class and successful start to the season there is a sense of optimism not seen at Beloit in a long time. Lost a couple they probably should have won but it's not an issue at the moment.

Now comes the #6 team in the country to The Flood Arena. Great game, down to the wire, blah blah blah. WHO WAS THERE TO SEE IT ? ? ? ? 608 people. Local  people and Lawrence fans should (I wasn't there so I'm just guessing) account for about 300 of that. So that means out of a student body of 1200 only 308 could walk the two blocks, at most, to see this game. There's no excuse for that.

On the plus side there is a student section, this year, that is actually into the game for a change and requires more than one hand to count them all; good. Where are the rest of the students. It wouldn't hurt them to step away from the wheel and not throw a pot for one night. Similarly the drum circle will probably sound just as good if those types missed a night of practice and went to a game for a change. Don't give me the week night excuse either. I guarandamntee I partied harder than any of you there when I was in the Corps for 4 years and that happened on any day that ended in Y.

So for those students who do follow the team and read the message boards, if you each recruit one of the above mentioned types to a game we can have over 1000 in attendance again. Not just when certain teams bring 600 of their fans along but for every game.

The bridge between the campus and the community was burned long ago and the community will not return until there is a history of winning again. That will take a few years, better parking and probably a pep band before the "town folk" start showing up in any numbers. Until then those on campus must lead the way in partially filling the seats.

Disliking Flood Arena is a topic in itself so I'll save it for another time. Now that I've covered the poor attendance the only other real complaint I have is the volume of the music being played. TURN IT DOWN ALREADY. I don't need to hear it before the game or at half time when I'm outside having a smoke for crying out loud.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: tps040580 on January 12, 2006, 08:35:16 pm
Roop, aka Mr. Beloit, I think I should point this out. The spring semester at Beloit does not begin until January 16th so I highly doubt that there was 1200 students on campus last Tuesday. 608 people over winter break isn't bad when you consider the bulk of the students aren't on campus.

I think the only rants that should be allowed are on the Football board concerning either a) the evil WIAC or b) the evil Mr. Coleman that is trying to hold down MWC Football  :D ;) ;D :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 12, 2006, 09:04:22 pm

Monmouth.................. What's the problem ?? 0-4 means you can only drop 2 more to assure yourself a spot in the tournament. 9-7 teams will probably be watching from the stands this year.


Roop - You ask what's the problem with Monmouth right now?  Here's a couple of quotes from Coach Glasgow (found in the Monmouth Daily Review-Atlas) after Tuesday's loss to Grinnell that may answer your question somewhat:

"We had some serious problems tonight," MC coach Terry Glasgow said. "Our seniors - the guys we need to carry us - just didn't get the job done. We were terrible at the free throw line, and we couldn't keep them off the glass on their end.

"This was very disappointing, to say the least. We have to find a way to win games like this, and we haven't done that yet."

It's really tough and hard to figure why the MWC portion of the season has started like it has.  There is plenty of talent on this team, the Scots got to play 3 of their first 4 MWC games at Glennie (gotta be able to protect home court), and by looking at the schedule Monmouth only has to play Lawrence and Carroll once each this season.  I guess the only thing I could compare it to right now is the Purdue football team going into the football season back in August--they had plenty of talent/returning players from the previous year's team, didn't have to play a game with Michigan or Ohio St., and were expected to do very well in the Big Ten.  Obviously, that didn't happen as they fell well short of those preseason expectations and didn't even qualify for a bowl game.  Whether it was lack of leadership or just not catching many breaks, things happen and it's not always easy to explain why a team struggles. ???  Sorry for the ramble there...here's hoping things get figured out this weekend!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 12, 2006, 09:18:56 pm
The spring semester at Beloit does not begin until January 16th

Good, then there's no danger I'll have to endure another dance routine this weekend while waiting on the 50-50 drawing. That's 10 minutes of my life that I can't get back. Those of you who were at the Aurora game know what I'm talking about.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2006, 10:24:34 am
Best of luck to GC today - we'll be huddled around the computer tonight!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 13, 2006, 11:38:15 am
Lake Forrest coming into RC tonight.  I wish I could watch Beckford and Schmitting battle it out.  2 forces in the paint....it should be good. 
mwc4life, call me with a report after the game if you go please. ;)

Consider me smiten  :'(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 13, 2006, 11:39:16 am
Ah, the thought of dc and fam sitting in the warmth and glow of the ol' iMac brings a tear, don't it?

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 13, 2006, 11:54:30 am
Ah, the thought of dc and fam sitting in the warmth and glow of the ol' iMac brings a tear, don't it?

I just glad I paid for the 19" monitor on the new computer. Now I just need a way to get my 13-year-old off the machine so I can watch the game.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2006, 12:08:02 pm
iMac? Don't accuse me of using/owning a Mac! I have better uses for my hard-earned cash!  >:(
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 13, 2006, 12:43:08 pm
Old School,

If it's "The System" you crave, don't forget that it makes a return visit to Wisconsin this year. Feb 3rd @Ripon and Feb 4th @Beloit. Those games are likely to mean more than this weekends games anyway.

I don't crave it.  Just an interesting watch, especially against a solid team like Lawrence (and Ripon last year).  Feb. 3rd is a Friday and I'm not driving to Beloit!


Mean more?  Oh yeah, because games prior to Feb. only count as half games!  ???
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 13, 2006, 01:05:46 pm
Early,

You can watch the game live through the Midwestconference.org web page.  I won't be going to the game unfortunately, but it would be nice to see Coach Vraney again.

-Just read a nice article in the Milwaukee Journal Centenal on Bradley of LU and his unbelievable shooting night he had against Ripon...saved the day.  Anyways, I come to find out that he is a Senior as well!!!  I thought he was one of LU's young guns that might carry them through post Briaer/MaGillis syndrome.  Now he's graduating too!!!

-Again, why won't 9-7 make it to this years tournament?  Everyone is still in this race except for SNC and IC.  A lot to play for...a lot of ups and downs.

97 days until Briaer/MaGillis/Bradley and LU are no more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 13, 2006, 01:35:45 pm
jeffdc-
Thats why your posts are always so short! Yer freakin' IBM keeps crashing! ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 13, 2006, 01:53:28 pm
Bradley is a senior!!   :o  That makes me happy too. 

I will not be able to watch that game, for I will be coaching the mighty Warriors (high school bball) to a victory. (hopefully)  So the mwc if you watch the game let me know how it goes, cause I won't be at a computer until Saturday morning once I leave the school.

97 days?  Are you sure I thought it was more like 101 days until Braire/MaGillis/Bradley and LU are no more!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2006, 02:09:36 pm
JeffP -

well, I was saving my hard-earned cash for roopacinos at your place. Now I'm not so sure.....  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 13, 2006, 02:29:55 pm
I just want to know how many cups of Saints Rest coffee he [jeffp] took on the road to get him there and back? He may very well have earned that initial at the end of his moniker.

:D as someone who got two hours of sleep because they needed to write and print a report from the hotel business center, and then who drank around 12 cups of coffee to stay awake enough to type 10 pages of notes at on of the most important meetings my organization holds all year, I certainly know what this means  :-[ ;)


So many choices, where to start? 

1.  Did anybody hear about the Grinnell/Monmouth game?  I heard it was great.

  :D :D :D I can't even tell if he was meaning to be serious or not, but seriously, this straightliner will have me laughing for the entire rest of the day  :D :D :D

jeffp - it's starting to look like this is the first year since we made the bet that grinnell might actually be able to have given a decent showing in our theoretical bet game. Incidentally, does the fact that Wheaton lost to a system team mean that I have to fork over half of the promised goods?

Oh wait, then you would owe me half of your promised goods for every time Grinnell has lost to a traditional style basketball team in the last three years.  :P ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 13, 2006, 03:44:42 pm
MWC4life - A karma point for you, for not listing the Scots along with IC and SNC as teams that are out of the race.  I like your optimism.

Early - You should find out if Bradley was a "transfer" (gasp!) and then not let the Lawrence posters hear the end of it.

DHF - My posts are always seriously unserious.  You heard about the MC/GC game, didn't you?   :D  ;D  ;)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 13, 2006, 03:46:06 pm
Apple Macintosh. Official computer of the New Roop Order.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: hjmphelp on January 13, 2006, 03:50:46 pm
dc-
saving it for a Mac then? The competition doesn't even know what a Roopacinno is! :o

Tonight app. 9:00...dc call home!!! ;D

DHF-Do I detect a little fear in your post? :o

Good luck to everyone tonight! Cept for Larry u of course!

I didn't forget to mention how good the game was In Monmouth on Tuesday, did I?
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: cubs on January 13, 2006, 04:12:59 pm
Early - You should find out if Bradley was a "transfer" (gasp!) and then not let the Lawrence posters hear the end of it.

Keven Bradley transferred from Stevens Point following the 2003-2004 season.  He redshirted during the 2001-02 season, played sparingly the following two seasons, and then decided to transfer.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 13, 2006, 04:24:04 pm
Bradley is a transfer† HA!! 8)

I'm not really sure what that means, but scottie told me to not let the Larry fans live it down that he is a transfer.  And scottie DO :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Early on January 13, 2006, 04:28:09 pm
Should have put this in my last post, but I forgot
LET'S GO HAWKS!!!
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: mwc4life on January 13, 2006, 04:34:54 pm
Scottie~

I shall return the favor...ten fold!!!

I'm a big fan of Terry and I really like MC's team this year...still hope, but not much.

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on January 13, 2006, 04:39:49 pm
DHF - You heard about the MC/GC game, didn't you?   :D  ;D  ;)

understatement of the year! and I'm still laughing!  :D


DHF-Do I detect a little fear in your post? :o

haha! overstatement of the year!  :P

Apple Macintosh. Official computer of the New Roop Order.

maybe I should rethink my devotion to apple  ::) :P :D

Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2006, 05:13:58 pm
JeffP - Hey, I was even gonna give you a half-time update, but now that I know your Mac perversions, I dunno. 

But I heard the GC-MC game was pretty good.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2006, 05:15:01 pm

Apple Macintosh. Official computer of the New Roop Order.

maybe I should rethink my devotion to apple  ::) :P :D



One of the best "friendly" burns I've seen in a while.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on January 13, 2006, 07:23:55 pm
Yeah, it was clever. Probably stayed up all night thinking of it.  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: systemfan86 on January 13, 2006, 08:57:24 pm
Love the webcast! Although I'm thinking of turning the sound off. Not that they're bad, but, wow, these are the Lawrence radio announcers aren't they?  :D
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 13, 2006, 09:01:03 pm
A little bit, yeah.
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on January 13, 2006, 09:32:58 pm
Nice to be able to watch two teams I wouldn't normally be able to see.  That 1st half was System ball at its best.  Lawrence had no problem with the pressure for the first 10 minutes or so, but then the Vikings seemed to get tired.  Their passes weren't as crisp and the finishes at the basket weren't as strong in the final 10 minutes of the half.  Grinnell traded 2 for 3 a number of times and got right back in the game.

Lawrence desperately needed halftime to recharge...if the Vikings can get their legs back under them, they'll be fine.  But they better get another big lead in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd or they could be in trouble.



Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: jeffdc on January 13, 2006, 09:37:25 pm
Grinnell vs. Lawrence at half-time:  59-59!  Grinnell comes back from Lawrence's 18-point lead.  Exciting game, hard to follow on inadequate bandwidth.  But - much, much better than nothing.  Go Pioneers!  :)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 13, 2006, 10:26:34 pm
I don't understand why they can't host a NCAA regional championship in that arena!  ;D

SNC 67-MC 62   :-X
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 13, 2006, 10:56:22 pm
Scottie - You beat me to posting the final score from tonight's game! :P 

Well, the Fighting Scots lose another close ballgame tonight--this time to the Green Knights (the other previously winless team in MWC play).  It still confuses the hell out of me as to why this team can't put it all together for a full 40 minutes on game night!  And, it's a very defeated sounding attitude I've got right now, but it's beginning to look more and more like the only "big" games for the rest of this season will be the 2 rivalry games with Knox; which is unfortunate because this group, with the talent and experience they have, should be playing games that are meaningful while contending for 1 of the 4 playoff spots.  Who knows, maybe I'm wrong with the high expecatations--someone correct me if that's the case...
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: Maverick on January 13, 2006, 11:08:03 pm
Elsewhere...

Beloit 72 - Knox 60
Carroll 94 - Illinois C. 62

And, go figure, nobody has posted any recently updated scores of the 2 games that are live on the internet. ::)
Title: Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
Post by: scottie on January 13, 2006, 11:14:14 pm