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D3baseball.com => Conferences by region => New York Region => Topic started by: Bob Maxwell on October 18, 2007, 02:03:28 pm

Title: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Bob Maxwell on October 18, 2007, 02:03:28 pm
This is a thread to pick up in the appropriate location from the NCAA tournament thread in the national topics.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on October 18, 2007, 02:13:40 pm
Cycle,

Yes the SJF team is one that I was alluding too,... but that is water under the bridge so I won't go into who beat who and when they did it. 

Yes, Brockport did make their bed last year and missed the NCAA tournament with some losses that to get into the NCAA's should not have happened. However, cudos to the teams that upset them... as they played good games to do so.

The perception that the NY region is weak is a problem that is hard to overcome... and the only way to get beyond that is for the teams in the region (particularly the stronger ones) to go out and play the strong teams from the other regions.  I don't see a lot of teams other then Cortland, Ithaca and Brockport doing that for more then a game.  Those three teams have these types of teams peppered all over their schedules... the other regionally ranked teams don't.  That needs to change for the NY region to gain in the national picture.

I can speak to the teams that I know about... I am sure that Oneonta with Weber, Locke, Salamida or Schellinger on the mound would give any of the teams in any region a good contest over the last 4 years.  Would they win all the games...no, but they would be in them all and win their share.  Plattsburgh, over the same 4 year period is a team that on any day can beat anyone... RIT has had a team that was very hard to beat last year...  Those teams each playing 3 or 4 games against nationally ranked or recognized teams would go a long way with improving the NY regions reputation.  Same with St. John Fisher, Oswego, RPI...

It has to be a collective thing that the conferences make an effort to do.  When I coached, the conference had scheduling guidlines taht they required all teams to follow.... I don't recall them exactly, but it was things like play 50% of your non-conference schedule against teams ranked in the top 100 from the previous years RPI's.  Is that hard to do?  yes, but we all did it and the conference grew to where we got 3 teams in the NCAA tournament in a year.

I would love to see the conferences in the NY region upgrade their schedules.... but there are a lot of things that impact the schools ability to do that.

I am interested in hearing comments on how to improve the NY regions image nationally.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 18, 2007, 10:26:32 pm
The New York Region is comprised of 39 teams and 3 conferences.  This is a smaller than average region.

The Pool A conferences are the Skyline, the SUNYAC and the Liberty League.  Cazenovia, Keuka and D'Youville from the Pool A North Eastern AC will also compete in the New York Region.  (D'Youville moves to the AMCC in 2008-09.)

The 10 independent schools that compete for Pool B bids include the "E-8" schools and some CUNYAC schools.  I have not seen any changes in the composition of those conferences that might move them to Pool A.

If you are talking about respect for the New York Region and measuring it by playoffs bids that the region earns, then you can look in two areas.

The 2007 Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/baseball/2007/2007_d3_baseball_handbook.pdf) gave 6 Pool B bids.  I anticipate that one bid will go from Pool B to Pool A as the Presidents AC gets a bid, leaving 5 Pool B bids in 2008.

There were 14 Pool C (at large bids) given in 2007 for the 328 schools that did not earn a Pool A bid (Conference AQ) or Pool B.  That is less than 1 at-large bid for every 23 schools that did not get a Pool A or Pool B bid.  That means that New York should expect one or two Pool C bids just on chance alone.


Here are the Pool B bid winners in 2007:

Chapman University
(Calif.)     Independent     35-5     10th
College of St. Scholastica (Minn.)    Upper Midwest Athletic Conference    36-6    4th
Emory University (Ga.)    University Athletic Association    35-7    9th
Ithaca College (N.Y.)    Empire Eight Conference    24-13    31st
Salisbury University (Md.)    Capital Athletic Conference    32-8    13th
Washington University (Mo.)    University Athletic Association    30-9    6th

Chapman and Emory (as did Kean! and Marietta) made the D3Series.

Ithaca earned a Pool B bid.  Sporting a 24-13 overall record suggests a degree of respect.

The Pool C bids were

Augustana College (Ill.)     College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin     32-12     2nd
George Fox University (Ore.)    Northwest Conference    30-9    6th
Illinois Wesleyan University    College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin    32-11    6th
Kean University (N.J.)    New Jersey Athletic Conference    35-8    5th
Keene State College (N.H.)    Little East Conference    29-13    1st
Marietta College (Ohio)    Ohio Athletic Conference    28-14    29th
Methodist College (N.C.)    USA South Athletic Conference    29-13    22nd
St. John Fisher College (N.Y.)    Independent    26-11    1st
St. Olaf College (Minn.)    Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference    31-8    18th
The University of Texas at Dallas    American Southwest Conference    32-11    1st
The College of Wooster (Ohio)    North Coast Athletic Conference    40-5    22nd
Trinity College (Conn.)    New England Small College Athletic Conference    28-6    6th
University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh    Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference    32-10    23rd
York College (Pa.)    Independent Capital AC   29-12    10th

Source:  2007 Regional Participants (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/NCAAChampionship/2007/regionals/participants.html)

As we look at Pool C, we see 2 schools (SJF and York PA) who were considered in Pool B being thought by the Regional Criteria (including Regional Rankings) to be good enough to get an at-large Pool C bid.

The fact that the New York Region got the expected number of bids mitigates against any lack of respect.

I hope that New York fans will understand the competitive balance in D3 is such that you can look back on a season's schedule and realize this.

If your team stayed home, and there was one loss that they should not have had, then that loss kept them home. 

Having reviewed the Pool C bids in football since 2001 and basketball Pool C bids since about 2002, I am firmly convinced of that fact.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: BoomerIL on October 19, 2007, 12:50:54 am
Ralph.....

Great information!  It helps me understand the process.  Thanks for making this available.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on October 19, 2007, 06:42:37 am
Ralph,

Yes, thanks for putting that together... it is interesting. 

The numbers do bear out that the proper number of teams went from the region...  I'm not trying to bash any other area, just stimulate some discussion about what can be done to improve the reputation of this region.

You mention it being a small region, which means there are fewer teams in it... and that is most likely why the perception exists... because there are fewer strong teams that are on the national stage and who arethere to talk about.  Percentage of teams most likely is the same in each region.... 


What I am saying is that if more of the top teams in NY were to make an effort to play more top teams from other regions, it would help to improve the "perception" that the region is not a strong one.  There are a handful of teams that could do this and be fairly successful... I mentioned several in last post, I am sure that there are a couple more each year too. 

A region is different then a conference... but I will make this point anyway as I feel it could apply loosely... One of the goals of a conference is to advance all of its teams as best it can so that they all grow together.  Yes, there are always top teams and bottom feeders in each conference.  But they should support each other to try to make all the teams better.  With a goal of raising the bottom teams so that they are competative not just in the conference, but against the top teams in other conferences too.  Substitute Region for conference and you can see what I'm trying to say...

I am suggesting that somehow the regional teams (and this can apply in any region, not just NY) make some bond to try to lift themselves collectively to be stronger.  That makes the situation better for all of them... and perhaps will give a team the benefit of the doubt with consideration to get into the championships.  to do this, the teams must stay competative with each other on the field, but eliminate the petty jealousies they have with each other off it and work together.  I know, that is a hard one for many people to do.... as they feel they are giving something up when they work together.  ???

Just trying to stimulate some baseball conversation at this time of year...
 :)
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: John McGraw on October 19, 2007, 10:31:46 am
Regional teams in upstate New York don't have time to play one another because they all have a large number of conference games.

Usually the only time upstate teams play outside of their conference is in Florida and then there's a handful of regional games against other New York teams or teams from Pennsylvania, Massachusetts or New Jersey.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: BigPoppa on October 19, 2007, 11:42:56 am
The New York Region is comprised of 39 teams and 3 conferences.  This is a smaller than average region.

The Pool A conferences are the Skyline, the SUNYAC and the Liberty League.  Cazenovia, Keuka and D'Youville from the Pool A) North Eastern AC will also compete in the New York Region.  (Keuka and D'Youville move to the AMCC in 2008-09.)

The 10 independent schools that compete for Pool B bids include the "E-8" schools and some CUNYAC schools.  I have not seen any changes in the composition of those conferences that might move them to Pool A.

If you are talking about respect for the New York Region and measuring it by playoffs bids that the region earns, then you can look in two areas.

The 2007 Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/baseball/2007/2007_d3_baseball_handbook.pdf) gave 6 Pool B bids.  I anticipate that one bid will go from Pool B to Pool A as the Presidents AC gets a bid, leaving 5 Pool B bids in 2008.

There were 14 Pool C (at large bids) given in 2007 for the 328 schools that did not earn a Pool A bid (Conference AQ) or Pool B.  That is less than 1 at-large bid for every 23 school that did not get a Pool A or Pool B bid.  That means that New York should expect one or two Pool C bids just on chance alone.


Here are the Pool B bid winners in 2007:

Chapman University
(Calif.)     Independent     35-5     10th
College of St. Scholastica (Minn.)    Upper Midwest Athletic Conference    36-6    4th
Emory University (Ga.)    University Athletic Association    35-7    9th
Ithaca College (N.Y.)    Empire Eight Conference    24-13    31st
Salisbury University (Md.)    Capital Athletic Conference    32-8    13th
Washington University (Mo.)    University Athletic Association    30-9    6th

Chapman and Emory (as did Kean! and Marietta) made the D3Series.

Ithaca earned a Pool B bid.  Sporting a 24-13 overall record suggests a degree of respect.

The Pool C bids were

Augustana College (Ill.)     College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin     32-12     2nd
George Fox University (Ore.)    Northwest Conference    30-9    6th
Illinois Wesleyan University    College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin    32-11    6th
Kean University (N.J.)    New Jersey Athletic Conference    35-8    5th
Keene State College (N.H.)    Little East Conference    29-13    1st
Marietta College (Ohio)    Ohio Athletic Conference    28-14    29th
Methodist College (N.C.)    USA South Athletic Conference    29-13    22nd
St. John Fisher College (N.Y.)    Independent    26-11    1st
St. Olaf College (Minn.)    Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference    31-8    18th
The University of Texas at Dallas    American Southwest Conference    32-11    1st
The College of Wooster (Ohio)    North Coast Athletic Conference    40-5    22nd
Trinity College (Conn.)    New England Small College Athletic Conference    28-6    6th
University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh    Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference    32-10    23rd
York College (Pa.)    Independent Capital AC   29-12    10th

Source:  2007 Regional Participants (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/NCAAChampionship/2007/regionals/participants.html)

As we look at Pool C, we see 2 schools (SJF and York PA) who were considered in Pool B being thought by the Regional Criteria (including Regional Rankings) to be good enough to get an at-large Pool C bid.

The fact that the New York Region got the expected number of bids mitigates against any lack of respect.

I hope that New York fans will understand the competitive balance in D3 is such that you can look back on a season's schedule and realize this.

If your team stayed home, and there was one loss that they should not have had, then that loss kept them home. 

Having reviewed the Pool C bids in football since 2001 and basketball Pool C bids since about 2002, I am firmly convinced of that fact.

Ralph's post always make me feel like I know nothing about the process... I tip my hat to you once again.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 19, 2007, 07:44:33 pm
Big Poppa, I need to correct one point.  Keuka will not move to the AMCC.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on October 20, 2007, 09:19:52 am
Big Poppa,

You're correct about the quality of the posts that Ralph puts up.  If you have a question on anything put it up there and he will put it in perspective, supported by data.  And yes, it makes me feel like I don't know anything too... although I do have a lot of opinions...    ;D

John,
You're correct about when games are played...but other regions have the same restrictions with the number of conference games.  In fact, the SUNYAC plays fewer conference games then a lot of conferences... but they have all the weekends from the end of March to the first week in May taken up by confernce commitments.  So it is still hard to get to play teams from other regions once April arrives, unless as you say you are near a regional "boarder".


Teams could pick up the type of games I'm suggesting on their spring trip as Brockoprt and Ithaca do every year.  Also, I would LOVE to see some time of collaborative scheduling where a conference or a couple of schools do something creative to bring a school or two in to play some games.

I see the Rochester in the Liberty League is playins some confernce games in Florida to ease the weatehr crunch when they go back north.  Not sure if it is just them and one other team or a conferene wide thing.  But that frees up some dates and games to possibly go to NJ or Ohio and pick up some games with ranked teams.

There are ways to do it... it would just take some cooperation and a top team wanting to do it.  That may be the problem; why would a top program, who already gets recognition and goes to the NCAA annually,  work to make the overall confernce or region stronger... when that would make their trip to the NCAA harder to obtain.  The answer to that is... in the future when they perhaps have a down year or don't win their conference, a stong regional reputation would help to get them that Pool C bid.

Of course I am talking about the NY region with this, but it is the same in every region.  In the west they were talking about the SCIAC never having received a Pool C bid.  So it happens everywhere... because of the limited number of bids available.  And if there are upsets in conference tournaments there are even fewer bids to spread around.

But this is interesting to talk about... how would a region collaborate to improve its overal strength/reputation and would schools be interested inworking together to do it.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Old Man on November 01, 2007, 10:08:23 pm
to John Mcgraw:

"Usually the only time upstate teams play outside of their conference is in Florida and then there's a handful of regional games against other New York teams or teams from Pennsylvania, Massachusetts or New Jersey."

if you look at the regional realignment imposed i believe last year - NY is in a different region than Mass, NJ or any other coastal States-

this was forwarded to me from a coach so i hope it is correct- What are your thoughts?

In-region Competition

 

The championships committee has expanded the definition of an in-region contest beginning with the 2006-07 championship season.  While contests against opponents within each institution’s current sport region and within 200 miles of the institution will continue to be in-region contests, the expanded definition includes “all competition within an institutions membership geographical region.”  The country is divided into four membership regions as listed below.  For most institutions, the change in definition should result in an expanded list of potential in-region opponents than in the past.

 

Region 1
  
 Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Vermont
 
Region 2
  
 New York, Pennsylvania
 
Region 3
  
 Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia
 
Region 4
  
 Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin, Wyoming
 

 

The online computer program should default the in-region checkmark for all teams on your schedule that are within your sport and membership geographic regions.  Each institution needs to manually check the box if your opponent is not within your geographic or membership region, but is within 200 miles from campus to campus.  The 200 miles is not a reference to where the game is played, but a measurement from your campus to the campus of your opponent.  The NCAA is using Microsoft MapPoint (www.mappoint.msn.com) to calculate mileage.  You should still use the shortest  distance to confirm distances from campus to campus.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on November 02, 2007, 09:01:53 am
What Old man posted is also listed on the d3baseball page FAQ... so it is correct. 

The changes  do expand the availalbe in region games for some teams.  However, with only a 200 mile radius and the use of the hard state boundaries it is not a level playing field with the increase of inregion games... based on where schools are located within the state/region.

Since i am a Brockpoprt fan, I will use them as an example...

By having PA in the same :"Administrative" region they have the schools in PA who can be included as In Region games...  There is a small section of NE corner of Ohio... not sure if there are any D-III schools in that area... but no one from New England or New Jersey is within the 200 miles.  so the change does very little for them.

Now take Cortland... they can go into Vermont, New Hampshire, Mass, Connecticut and most of NJ... and that is all within the 200 mile radius.  There are dozens of shools that they can play and count as in region schools. 

The two games that Brockport played against Keene last year were not in region games for them, but would have been (becasue of the 200 mile radius) for any other SUNYAC school except Fredonia and I think Oswego.  But Fredonia can pick up a lot of schools in Ohio if they so desired, that would be in region games for them.  Becasue of Brockport's location the changes did very little for them.  I think that Keene is just outside of 200 miles for Oswego... and they can just get into New Jersey so they have much the same limited expanded pool as Brockport.

I think while it was an effort to improve the options for schools, it didn't do a lot for a lot of schools based on their locations (like Brockport, Oswego and the non-SUNYAC teams in the Rochester area).  Increasing the radius to 300 miles would help everyone... or perhaps making it so that states that border border states would count.  That would increase options for everyone too.

Or another tack all together would be to create a second level of games that impact the rating numbers... develop this and have it some how work into the numbers.

Just some thoughts...
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2007, 10:19:56 am
There are plenty of schools in Administrative Region #2.

PennAC
MAC
NEAC
PresAC
Most in the Skyline
CUNYAC schools that play baseball

The driving philosophy behind this is to minimize missed class time.  a 200-mile trip in NY is probably 4 hours; 300 miles 6 hours.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on November 02, 2007, 02:53:50 pm
Ralph,

Yes there are plenty of schools in PA in Administrative Region #2.  Most of them are outside of the 200 mile radius from Brockport... so that doesn't help with being able to play them as the drive is over 200 miles anyway. 

That is caused by the locaiton in the state... which can't be changed.   ;D

The increase to 250 or 300 miles would mean that other schools in ohter areas are also within that radius.  Just putting some thoughts on the table.

I understand the missed drive time... when I coached any thing within a 4 hour drive was a match we could travel and play on the same day.  leave at 9:00 am, in hotel by 1:00 so that the pregame afternoon is the same home or away.

I guess since I work at a D-I school and coached here... I keep forgetting the missed class time part of it.   Slap myself upside the head...  :-X

Thanks for reminding me.


As I said, just putting some thoughts on the table...
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on November 02, 2007, 02:55:38 pm
the games against the teams that Ralph mentions are region games... and the drives to most of them are over 200 miles.  That is why I mentioned increasing the radius....  Just want to save you the reply telling me that the PA schools are in region games for NY teams.

 ;)
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2007, 07:14:59 pm
Bob, the Presidents are firmly committed to the regional philosophy. I see very little support for any more expansion in the definitions of the "Regional Concept" in D-III.  The 200-mile radius was implemented about 4-5 years ago so a Shenandoah in the South Region in Winchester VA could play Mary Washington in Fredericksburg VA in the Mid-Atlantic Region in basketball and have it count as in-region.  The next increment was to find a philosophical way to expand the scheduling opportunities inside the region philosophy.  That was when the existing Administrative Region criterion was added to the Evaluation Region and Conference and the 200-mile radius criteria for "in-region".  An effort to count as in-region games any game that occurred during a five-day break in school (spring break or Christmas/New Year's or even fall break or Thanksgiving) "never got off the ground".

I count 82 possible opponents whom Brockport (or any other upstate New York team) can count as in-region.  That is nearly 25% of D-3.  If coaches want to co-ordinate the in-region games at the Florida or Arizona trips, when most of the non-conference games will be played, then I think that is a smart thing to do.  Go to the Spring Training host that you want to use and set up your tourney to maximize your in-region games.

In baseball, East Texas Baptist is closer to Millsaps College in Jackson Mississippi (260 Miles) than almost any conference member in the ASC-West, and yet the NCAA says that is too far.   Millsaps is in Admin Region #3 and South Evaluation Region. ETBU is in Region #4 and West Evaluation Region.  It isn't an in-region game.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 02, 2007, 08:37:29 pm
Of course, the Cortland fans are saying to themselves,

"There's another reason why Brockport is such a ****** part of the state!" 

 :D :D :D
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Old Man on November 02, 2007, 08:52:19 pm
it seems some are getting confused by what i posted the other day.  

here is an example of an in region game - Umaine-Farmington vs. Washington College in MD. - - BY mapquest - 579.94 miles. but Maine and Maryland in same region BY NCAA definitions- Region 1
  
 Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Vermont

Bob M. is correct - in the Brockport vs. Keene Games - Mapquest shows 338.83 miles - non region games

can anyone explain the differences in mileage by in region out of region by NCAA?

Old Man

Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 03, 2007, 01:02:57 am
Old man, the distance between two schools within the administrative region has no bearing on the 200-mile radius rule.

The fourth administrative region extends from East Texas Baptist in Marshall, TX to Pacific Lutheran in Tacoma, TX, and from Wisconsin-Eau Claire to Chapman in Orange CA.

The administrative regions divide the membership roughly into four groups.  That was the device that the NCAA used to expand the definition of "in-region" when it was adopted two years ago.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on November 04, 2007, 07:08:27 am
Ralph and Old Man,

I think we all understand the concept of regional games ane what the criteria is that makes them such.  I think that the problem I'm having is on one hand you set a hard 200 mile radius... and on the other you set up an Administrative Region using hard state boarders.   Then you have bordering states count as regional games when they are by far outside of the 200 mile radius.

These two things seem to say the opposite thing to me... yes they are in the manual therefore are the rules... but they just seem to be making the opposite statement.

Old man uses a very good example... two teams that are 580 miles apart count as in region games... yet two others who are only 340 apart don't?  That is becasue of state boundaries...

And Ralph, you mention that there are 82 in region opponents for teams from NY (about 25% of D-III)... Most of those are in NY for most teams, the others are mostly in the souther corridor of PA in the Philly and Pittsburgh areas.  Almost all of which are further then the 200 mile radius... so in this case the state borders make them in region.

I know that is done for simplicity of the end of season numbers... as if it was done with only the mileage radius each school would have its own list of schools.  But I suggest that is possible... so you could have a list for each school at a set limit.

Interesting discussion... but we do all understand it, and are going round and round now.
 ;)


I've taken this off the point of what I am trying to say... and that is to try to find a way for a team to play a schedule with some strong non-region teams on it and have that work for them and not work against them in the end of season numbers.  It seems that if you lose a non-region game against a nationally ranked team... it hurts you because you have a loss on your overall record.  If you win that game it doesn't help at all because you don't get any BIG ponits for it (and you could have gotten that win against a .333 in region team)...  Yet if you play a schedule against mostly teams that finish the season with an under .500  winning percentage and win most of your games against those teams you can get in the NCAA tournament because you have over 30 wins, single digit losses and you've accumulated a lot of 9+ point games...  Other then playing a higher level of baseball, there is no incentive to play a strong schedule.

I understand the regional concept of D-III (and like it)... but if you have a national championship at the end of the season  you have to find a way to have a way to have some incentive to play a stronger schedule.  If the post season was a strict 8 regionals with teams from within in that region then I can see just counting the in region games and not even considering the non-region games like they do...but when you move teams from region to region to fill the field you need to find a way to have some weight to non-region games... or the teams getting in and moving regions are playing with a different deck of cards.

Just my thoughs... and it has stimulated some discussion at least among the three of us.

Everyone plays with the same rules from the start so it isn't like anyone gets blind sided... I just think there should be a reward of some type for playing an upgraded schedule.



Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on November 04, 2007, 08:12:09 am
After that last post, the light bulb just went off in my head...  :o   Thanks Old Man and Ralph for staying on the subject long enough for me to figure it out... LOL    ;D

Reading the past few posts I just figured out what my problem is with the D-III system.  Other then teams moving from one region to another for the NCAA tournament I'm OK with how it is set up.  The fundamental problem I'm having... is not the games against nationally ranked teams... but with how the quality points are awarded for games against teams within each region.   ;)

So now that I'm in the light on this... LOL  :D  I'm done with the national conversation about playing games... although I still think a non-regon game against a nationally ranked team should give some points...  Lets look at it from a regional point of view.  Because as Ralph ALWAYS points out, this is where everythng happens in D-III.

The way the points are alotted for wins and losses is the problem... you get more points (8) for winning at HOME to a team with a win percentage under .333 then you do for losing on the road to a team with an over .667 win percentage (7). 

This is what is out of whack... there is NO incentive for teams to play tough in -region schedules... there needs to be a change in the points awarded based on teams final records.  This would give incentive for teams to play upgraded schedules within their regions.  And would make the strong teams within a region more popular opponents for weak teams.  That may cut down on travel to distant in region and out of region games... meaing less lost class time... that fits into the D-III philosophy. 

I won't give any examples, but as it is now... teams can be rewarded for playing weak schedules.  And when you question it you're dismissed with being told to win the games.  While that is a good point... the strength of the opponents needs to be brought into the mix more of those in region games.

Change the points awarded so that playing against a team with an over .667 WP (win or lose) means more then any win against a sub .333 WP team.

Ralph, What do you think... is this a more palatable position then what I've tried to say on the national level?  From working in D-I for 20 years I got lost and was trying to make a regional point with a national example... becasue that is what I work in daily... ;)

Its nice to be in the light... LOL
 ;D

Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: dgilblair on November 04, 2007, 09:51:26 am
I don't think a lot of teams schedule games against weak teams to get more points. Thats not going to help you at the end of the year when the opponents get tougher.  I think most coaches want to play a tough schedule to improve their team.

Maybe the team with the 333 win percentage has play mostly top tier teams and ended up on the losing side of those games and the 667 teams have played weaker opponents. 
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 04, 2007, 03:13:01 pm
The fall sports have already begun to work with the Opponents Winning Percentage (OWP) and the Opponents Opponent Winning Percentage (OOWP), which we get in the spring.  I think that we get a better idea of how this works next winter with the basketball bids.  Basketball is more like baseball...more teams, more games, more contests between teams.

Please take a look on the football page for the Strength of Schedule (http://www.d3football.com/strength-of-schedule/2007) stuff.

The link is on the left side rail.

The Regional Rankings are good for two things: (1) Determining seeding. (2) Awarding one of the 6 Pool B and 14 Pool C baseball bids.  The New York Region should count on getting 2-3 bids in Pool B and C.  Anything more than that will be hard, like sweeping the series 3-0, instead of winning 2 of 3.

Using the old system last year for basketball, I felt comfortable with a reason why a team flet just short of the Pool C bid.  UW-Oshkosh was 21-6/ 18-6/ 12-4 (overal/in-region/conference).  UW-Oshkosh clamored about not making the playoffs.  They lost three times to UW-LaCrosse, include the WIAC semis.

Please give me a season to follow this new system.  My first thought is that if you left the winning run in scoring position, then that is a game that you just blew.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on November 05, 2007, 10:28:58 am
DGilblair

I agree with you... coaches who want to move on do schedule as tough as they can...  but it doesn't always happen, as you can be rewarded for 30 wins and single digits in your record becasue of the overall record and points accumulated with 8 point wins.   I think it is a little funny that a win at home vs a team with a .333 win percentage is work more then any game against a team with a .667 or better win percentage.  I would like to see those two at least flip in the point awarded matrix...

As your last statement suggests, record doesn't always tell the story of a teams abilities .  Although I don't think anyone will win or lose all of those games as some have suggested in previous posts... if the teams are generally equal, it shakes out in the schedule.

The changes that Ralph indicates have been made this year are a step in the right direction to give some weight to teams who play as strong a schedule as they can...  I am anxious to see what differences it may make at the end of the year. 

No matter what system is followed, there is always a team or two that feels as if they didn't get the consideratin they felt they deserved.  As I recall, last season there were several who were in that category in baseball... all from different regions.  So while I am talking about it specific to our area of the country (NY Mid-Atlantic & NE regions), it happens everywere... every year.

That is one of the things we all enjoy about sports...


Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on November 05, 2007, 10:32:38 am
Ralph,

thanks for the link to the football data... interesting.  I don't have time in the fall to keep up with it, but it is interesting to see it.

Also, I do recall some conversations on these boards about football being easier to track then baseball because of the one game a week.  And also in baseball not everyone would report scores in a timely manner and rainouts caused problems too.  Guess now with the information superhighway we have it is easier and can be done at least at the end of the year very accurately.

thanks again...
Bob
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Old Man on November 05, 2007, 08:59:20 pm
As we all know - most schools also have limits in amount of travel time during the spring semester - after all football mostly plays games on weekends while baseball is an everyday sport.  many schools are limited by proximity to other "quality schools" that they can play during the week without hurting the "STUDENT-ATHLETE" in missed class time.  i agree with dgilblare in the hopes that most coaches at the DIII level schedule the toughest games they can to hopefully prepare their teams for post season.  other schools are just in better areas to have quality opponents in easy travel distance.

Bob - i agree the point system does seem out of whack - but "sorry to bring this up"  lokk at DI football and BC - most people are complianing about their schedule but if you look at their opponents - in previous few years the schedule that they had whould have been ++++ but this year many of their opponents are having down years.

Maybe it is not the scheduling but the system that generates power rankings.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on November 06, 2007, 10:26:44 am
Teh one thing baseball has is a lot of weekend conference games so other then the spring trip and a weekend or two in march (BRRRR...) there isn't really much opportunity to get out of region.  And a couple posts back, I stated that it was not really an out of region issue, it was the rating system that is out of whack.

When you talk about regional strength of schedule... everyone is pretty much equal in NY. In fact, I like where Brockport is in that regard being in the SUNYAC and near Rochester area.  Its the distance to the teams in PA that was the problem I referred to.

The point system does seem to want to reward teams for playing weak teams vs strong teams unless you win.  But for a lot of programs that are trying to move up, it is daunting to play the strong teams... but you have to try.

I think a change in the points as simple as flipping the wins vs .333 teams and losses vs .667 teams makes sense.  But I think Raplh made a great point, lets give the new strenght of opponets schedule changes a year to see what impact they will have... and I'm not sure if will completely eliminate the point system or just supplement it.


As for the BCS stuff... I am a proponent of an 8 team playoff system that take in and would use some of the existing bowls as the first round and then use the present BCS bowls on a rotating annual basis for the final two rounds.  but that is another topic and not D-III related so I will leave it at that....
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Jim Dixon on November 06, 2007, 12:17:56 pm
The point system does seem to want to reward teams for playing weak teams vs strong teams unless you win.  But for a lot of programs that are trying to move up, it is daunting to play the strong teams... but you have to try.

Of course this only really means something if you can not win the conference....or need something to discuss in the off season.
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on November 07, 2007, 01:10:59 pm
Jim,

I would change your comment to read "do not"... rather then "can not"... win the conference.    And I would add... and don't receive a pool C bid.

And yes, it is something that has stimualted some off season conversation,  and is interesting whether or not you win the conference.

Regardless of what the case is... I think that if the point system is still part of the selection criteria that there should be an adjust ment so that a game against a team with a .667 winnning percentage is worth at least as much... if not MORE... then a win over a team with a .333 winning percentage.

That just seems to be out of whack to me... either way, it is still only an 8-point game so not enough to boost you into a pool C if you go 25-0 against sub-.333 teams.  Just an observation...  that I would think many would agree with when they really think about it.

But mentioning it has sparked conversation... in the off season.
 ;)

Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on November 09, 2007, 07:53:05 am
Many schedules are starting to show up on the web sites (minus the spring trip opponents)... and a couple of rosters too.  Here are links to the SUNYAC teams that have them up.

Schedules:
http://www.brockport.edu/athletics/baseball/schedule.php (http://www.brockport.edu/athletics/baseball/schedule.php)

http://www.fredonia.edu/athletics/baseball/baseball_schedule08.asp (http://www.fredonia.edu/athletics/baseball/baseball_schedule08.asp)

http://athletics.newpaltz.edu/baseball/schedule.cfm (http://athletics.newpaltz.edu/baseball/schedule.cfm)

http://www.oneonta.edu/academics/athletics/baseball/schedule/ (http://www.oneonta.edu/academics/athletics/baseball/schedule/)

Rosters:
http://www.fredonia.edu/athletics/baseball/baseball_roster08.asp (http://www.fredonia.edu/athletics/baseball/baseball_roster08.asp)

http://athletics.newpaltz.edu/baseball/roster.cfm (http://athletics.newpaltz.edu/baseball/roster.cfm)


Does anyone know of any other NY teams have their schedule up?

Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: Cards7580 on January 24, 2008, 07:50:23 pm
SUNY Plattsburgh

http://www.plattsburgh.edu/athletics/cardathletics/baseball/schedule.php
Title: Re: 2008 season in NY region
Post by: NYBB on January 25, 2008, 11:31:07 pm
SUNY-Purchase looks to have their best season to date and they're playing a tough schedule. 

https://www.purchase.edu/Departments/PhysicalEducation/MensBaseball/schedule.aspx

Sleeper team out of the now slightly weaker Skyline
Title: BB: Ithaca
Post by: pavanyks on February 09, 2008, 11:32:00 am
Will ithaca or cortland make it out of new york.

My opinion is that this will be rebuilding year for Cortland but expect Ithaca to play well in california and move to DIII championships for certain.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2008, 11:36:15 am
Welcome aboard,  pavannyks!

I will move this topic into the NY Region 2008 topic to draw more general discussion.
Title: Re: BB: Ithaca
Post by: JQV on February 12, 2008, 08:01:02 am
Will ithaca or cortland make it out of new york.

My opinion is that this will be rebuilding year for Cortland but expect Ithaca to play well in california and move to DIII championships for certain.

+k for some new Bomber blood.
Title: Re: BB: Ithaca
Post by: scuba16 on February 12, 2008, 12:38:03 pm
Will ithaca or cortland make it out of new york.

My opinion is that this will be rebuilding year for Cortland but expect Ithaca to play well in california and move to DIII championships for certain.

Remember this, Cortland State doesn't rebuild, they reload. Cortland is just as good this year as they were last year!
IC best chance to unseat cortland was last year, IC was a damn good team and lost 2 to the red dragons in the regional finals. IC graduated some glue guys like jeremy peters and will not be as good this year as they were last year.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on February 14, 2008, 01:46:46 pm
Ithaca does have some good pitching depth, so if it falls correctly for them they could be a big factor.  Talking about just these two teams, it may come down to who has the easier path, gets a break and the most fresh pitching availalbe come final time.  That is if they both get to that point...   ;D

As we saw last year, with the Keily/Dougher game... anything can happen early and then you have to have all the other things fall in place for you. 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: JQV on February 14, 2008, 02:11:19 pm
Cliches and coachspeak aside, scuba hits on an irrefutable point.  IC's loss at the end of last year's regional tournament makes them the underdog in any future regional matchup until they prove otherwise. 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on February 15, 2008, 09:24:36 am
While I am a SUNYAC fan... and will pull for whoever wins the conference bid. 

I still say that Ithaca will have something to say about who comes out of the NY regional.  Unless they have injuries to their pitching staff... they can send out Sottung, Wolf & Brown with Gardner from their bull pen.  Any team with Pitching depth is a threat in a DR tournament.

And I think that there are other teams who will also be in the mix... so lose a game to someone unexpected and it is a difficult task to get out of the regionals.

It will be fun to watch...
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: StarvinMarvin on February 15, 2008, 12:05:22 pm
I wouldn't count on Gardner being a bullpen savior just yet.  He didn't even throw in last year's regional.  Valesente chose to pitch Peters, who had a partially torn labrum I believe, when he had a healthy and fresh Gardner available in the championship game.  The poor kid warmed up about twenty times and never came into the game when there were several lefty/lefty matchups where he could have been effective but was still never used.  Not sure what the reservation is to use him but maybe this year will be different.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: NYBB on February 16, 2008, 02:29:14 am
it's sad but ya'all won't be seeing me until 2009.  Keep it hot for me though.  Hopefully global warming will make it so i won't have to play in less than 50 degree weather in 09!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: pudge27 on February 16, 2008, 01:09:33 pm
I think that one of the positive things that I've taken out of some of these posts are that there appears to be a lot more depth in the NY region than in years past.  It wasn't that long ago that the NY region was Ithaca, Cortland, RPI and then everyone else was pretty much fodder.  It's good to see schools like Fisher, Manhattanville, UR, Skidmore, Brockport et al getting talked about as having a legit shot to do some damage.  I think that for the time being, Cortland and IC are still the big favorites to come out of this region (or if they ship in a strong out of region team in May), but it seems like the 2nd tier teams are getting closer and are much more compettitive than in the past.  Do most of you agree or is this pre-season wishful thinking? 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: NYBaseball on February 16, 2008, 02:30:09 pm
I agree second tier teams are getting closer....and i do feel the SUNYAC doesnt always get the respect it should. Cortland is by far the best team in the league.....but Id like to see team schools like Oneonta, Brockport, and Plattsburgh get more respect
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2008, 02:46:44 pm
I agree second tier teams are getting closer....and i do feel the SUNYAC doesnt always get the respect it should. Cortland is by far the best team in the league.....but Id like to see team schools like Oneonta, Brockport, and Plattsburgh get more respect
The SUNYAC can get more respect when they play their "spring training" games down south.

The inter-conference games are the way that we can judge relative strengths.  Jim Dixon has focused on "early season matches".  The front page usually includes the game story of bid "inter-conference" or "inter-regional" games.

Plattsburgh plays at the RussMatt Central Florida Invitational.

Brockport goes to Phoenix.

Oneonta goes to the Cocoa Expo in Cocoa Beach, FL.

Let me plug D3baseball.com.  Jim Dixon has done an excellent job of bringing his database and a decade of experience to this site for our enjoyment.

As D3 Baseball fans become more familiar with the 360 teams that are out there, then the respect will follow to the teams that have earned it.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on February 16, 2008, 08:24:47 pm
For the most part, the northern teams have faired pretty well in the World Series through the years.  I don't know if the SUNYAC should get more respect that any other conference.  Any and all teams that are playing north of Missouri/Kentucky/Virginia are doing very well.  That Texas-Tyler team scares me!!

I wonder how the rankings would look if all schools had to start on the same date?
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2008, 02:43:54 pm
For the most part, the northern teams have faired pretty well in the World Series through the years.  I don't know if the SUNYAC should get more respect that any other conference.  Any and all teams that are playing north of Missouri/Kentucky/Virginia are doing very well.  That Texas-Tyler team scares me!!

I wonder how the rankings would look if all schools had to start on the same date?
The Southern teams get a chance to knock themselves off first.  The northern teams will "float up" until they hit their vulnerable spots/conference games.

By May 15th we ought to have a pretty good understanding.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: NYBB on February 20, 2008, 12:35:36 pm
Yeah well, there aren't that many southern teams in D3 compared to D1,D2, JUCO & NAIA so the northeast schools don't have THAT much to worry about.  Texas-Tyler is very good, yes, but paired up against a local JUCO in West Texas or an NAIA in Oklahoma, they're not great shakes
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on February 21, 2008, 09:01:51 am
NY region teams are opening up this weekend... Cortland.  And the following week St John Fisher makes a southern swing and followed by New Paltz that next weekend...

Does anyone know if there is an audio or live stats link for any of these games?
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: pudge27 on February 21, 2008, 10:25:33 am
Cortland's website says that their first audio webcast is the 3/29 DH vs. Brockport.  You might be able to get it from somewhere else.  Didn't see anything on the NC Wes website.  NCW looks like their off to a solid start.  Should be interesting to see how Cortland does or if they remember what grass looks like.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on February 21, 2008, 03:04:42 pm
Thanks...  for the information and the chuckle about remembering grass.

Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: MMTPdthree on March 06, 2008, 02:05:02 pm
Who's comming out of Skyline and Eliete 8 (should be 9)?
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: shoeless on March 15, 2008, 09:21:59 am
Best offense or Best Defense debate
 
When your best pitchers are on the mound, do you think they would prefer the BEST defense the coach can put on the field behind them?  Should it just be the middle infielders?  or would they prefer their best offense?

Do you think it affects pitchers confidence.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on March 25, 2008, 02:02:41 pm
Who are the best pitchers and positional players in New York this year?
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on April 03, 2008, 03:14:43 pm
Who are the best pitchers and positional players in New York this year?

Well no one replied so here goes.

Pitchers
Veenma - Rochester
Reilly - Skidmore
Sottung - Ithaca
Zongol - RPI
Tone - Cortland
Hooper - Cortland
Klein - RPI
Fishback - Rochester
Ackerman - Oneonta
Wolfe - Ithaca

Position Players
Gardner - Cortland
Mamigonian - RPI
Raux - Ithaca
Zaccardo - Cortland
Devine - RPI
Ferri - Skidmore
Maxwell - Brockport
Devito - Cortland
Meyers - Oneonta
Reardon - RPI


Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 24, 2008, 04:04:09 pm
Here's the first regional rankings.

http://ncaa.com/rankings/default.aspx?id=212508

1. Cortland State
2. Ithaca
3. RPI
4. Rochester
5. St. John Fisher
6. St. Joseph's (LI)

Also, Manhattanville is ranked in the Mid-Atlantic region. So, in theory, they may not be shipped to the Falcon Park regional.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: NYBB on April 24, 2008, 08:09:26 pm
Does anyone know if St. Joe's Brooklyn is going to join a conference next year?  They are official D3 this year.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on April 29, 2008, 09:17:00 pm
Why is St John Fisher regionally ranked at #5....they have a sub-par region record and havent really beat anyone worthy other than taking 1 out of 4 from Ithaca

Any thoughts on what the updated regional rankings will look like when they come out thursday?
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on April 29, 2008, 09:39:23 pm
I would like to see Brockport sneak into the top 5... wins over Ithaca this week and St. John Fisher earlier in the year coupled with them winning 15 of the last 18 games and 7 straight to reach the conference tournament.  Yes, they do have some bad losses earlier in the year but they are on a roll now...

just my two cents...
 ;)
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 29, 2008, 10:01:21 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if they sneak into the regional rankings this week. Though, St. John Fisher didn't really play itself out of the rankings either with a four-game beatdown of Utica and a loss to top-ranked Cortland.

That being said, I think it's a toss-up between Brockport and Fisher even though Brockport has two wins over the Cardinals. In all reality, I don't think either gets into the NCAA tournament, but that's just me being cynical in thinking that New York will get a six-team region with one out of region team coming in from New England and five representing NY - Cortland, Ithaca, Rochester, St. Joseph's and Cazenovia (though Keystone from NE PA could win the NEAC too).

If Rochester sweeps SJF, it'll solidify its hold on a NCAA bid, win or lose the conference tournament. Fisher still needs to play local-rival RIT as well, so they have tough games ahead.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on April 29, 2008, 10:36:35 pm
What has this world come to if Cazenovia makes the NCAA.
2 years ago IC beat them 35-1 and 33-2.
I also think RPI gets in some way, some how!

A great 8 team all NY, NY Regional would be:
Cortland
Brockport
IC
SJF
RPI
U of R
Skyline winner
NEAC winner

2 Suny's
2 E-8's
2 LL
1 Skyline
1 NEAC

What a blood and guts, heart and soul tournament that would be!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on April 30, 2008, 04:14:37 am
Scuba i couldn't agree more...that would be some regional to see
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on April 30, 2008, 06:32:02 am
I would like to see that reginal too... but unless someone other then Cortland wins the SUNYAC, I can't see 2 SUNYAC teams getting in.  Thought it may have happened last year... but it didn't.

Also, John... correction, Brockport only beat SJF once, the second game ended 8-8 due to darkness.

Agree about Cazanovia... but that is one of the things that the automatic qualifiers does.  A team must  be able to beat its conference opponents... yes, many of those teams get in, but exit quickly.  BUt there competition to get in is in their conference.

I like this time of year...
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: onthed3board on April 30, 2008, 09:40:07 am
Agreed that NY makes for an exciting regional just trying to figure out who will possibly get thrown in to the mix from out of state.

That Ithaca-Caz score was one game, 37-11, three years ago.  Caz had the lead 8-4 in the 3rd and Ithaca ran up the score after that.

Obviously a different team but probably not a factor in the Regional this year.

Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on April 30, 2008, 10:25:24 am
at this point its probably too tough to figure out who might get thrown in to the mix from out of state...but after this weekend we may have a better idea on who may be joining the NY regional
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on April 30, 2008, 10:26:49 am
Agreed that NY makes for an exciting regional just trying to figure out who will possibly get thrown in to the mix from out of state.

I don't think anyone should get thrown in from out of state. IMO, If you are not good enough to make your own regional you should not get in.

Obviously Caz is a greatly improved team, kudos to them for the hard work and improvement.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on April 30, 2008, 11:35:42 am
I believe New England has an excessive amount of teams which is why they ship one out to New York.  I didn't realize the NEAC has an automatic qualifier this year.. That is unfortunate.  NY will most likely get a 7 team regional again this year.  (The amount of bids is the same as last year I'm assuming, or has this changed?)  I suppose I'm still a fan of the 2005 format when less teams made it.  That made the NCAA tournament much more prestigous than it is now.  It's much more watered down.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 30, 2008, 11:40:49 am
Agreed that NY makes for an exciting regional just trying to figure out who will possibly get thrown in to the mix from out of state.

I don't think anyone should get thrown in from out of state. IMO, If you are not good enough to make your own regional you should not get in.

Obviously Caz is a greatly improved team, kudos to them for the hard work and improvement.

But, when you have seven automatic bid conferences in New England and the Mid-Atlantic, and there's an upset, chances are, the extra team gets moved into New York. That's just the logistics of it. The New York region according to the NCAA handbook has 37 teams (including 11 Pool B), eight of them should not go to the NCAA tournament. If New York was stronger nationally then I'd agree with you, but a New York team hasn't won the national championship since Ithaca in 1988
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 30, 2008, 11:41:55 am
I believe New England has an excessive amount of teams which is why they ship one out to New York.  I didn't realize the NEAC has an automatic qualifier this year.. That is unfortunate.  NY will most likely get a 7 team regional again this year.  (The amount of bids is the same as last year I'm assuming, or has this changed?)  I suppose I'm still a fan of the 2005 format when less teams made it.  That made the NCAA tournament much more prestigous than it is now.  It's much more watered down.

This year, it's either a six-team or eight-team regional, no more seven team pods.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on April 30, 2008, 12:43:12 pm
Thanks goodness for that... 7 is a very awkward number.

And yes, we will start to see the picture clear up after this weekend when the SUNYAC tournament is played.  I think that is the only conference tournament this week... is that correct?
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 30, 2008, 01:10:44 pm
In upstate NY, no, it's not.

The NEAC tournament will also be played this weekend over at Cazenovia. From what I gather on the NEAC site, it will be Cazenovia, Keystone, Penn State-Berks and Keuka. The winner will more than likely be headed to the Auburn, NY, regional. Though, if it's Penn State, I'm not sure they're a full Division III member so one of the other three could get the bid.

The Skyline tournament also is this weekend downstate. The regional rankings favorite would be St. Joseph's (L.I.) They'll be the two seed and play either Polytech or Mt. St. Vincent on Friday. The title game is on Sunday at SUNY Farmingdale.

And then the Liberty League tournament is next weekend, though if RPI wants to keep their at-large hopes alive, they need to play well against local-rival Skidmore this weekend.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on April 30, 2008, 02:35:30 pm
Agreed that NY makes for an exciting regional just trying to figure out who will possibly get thrown in to the mix from out of state.

I don't think anyone should get thrown in from out of state. IMO, If you are not good enough to make your own regional you should not get in.

Obviously Caz is a greatly improved team, kudos to them for the hard work and improvement.

If New York was stronger nationally then I'd agree with you, but a New York team hasn't won the national championship since Ithaca in 1988

John I couldn't disagree with you more. Winning a NC has got nothing to do with the strength of individual regions. There have been plenty of teams good enough to win the NC from the NY region since 1988 and the bounces just haven't bounced their way.
For example last year, Cortland gets beat by Kean in extras, but a phantom runner interference call on a bunt in the bottom of the 9th, score tied, erased what would have been 2nd and 3rd w/ no outs and cortland 3-4-5 coming up with 3 chances to win it. Kean goes on to win the NC and somehow the Mid-Atlantic is such a better region than NY. Doubt it.

Not saying Cortland would have won but they had a heck of a pitching staff and if they didn't have to play thru the losers bracket, they would have been a tough out for anyone with a fresh staff.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: WrongArm on May 01, 2008, 09:51:37 am
IThe NEAC tournament will also be played this weekend over at Cazenovia. From what I gather on the NEAC site, it will be Cazenovia, Keystone, Penn State-Berks and Keuka.

John,
The Cazenovia site says the NEAC games will be played in Rome at Delutis field. Cazenovia put an impressive record together this year, but has lost its three tune-up games this week... one to Cortland  and two yesterday to Utica. Maybe not the best way to to get ready for the conference tourney. We'll all know by next week.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 01, 2008, 10:56:52 am
How many teams will be making the NCAA tournament field this year?  How many made it last year?  53?  It was 42 in 2005 correct? 

NY Region baseball is not  bad by any means but top to bottom New England and the Mid-Atlantic are probably deeper (because of more teams).  New York should not have 8 teams in the NY Regional. 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on May 01, 2008, 11:01:36 am
John,
I agree with you totally. RPI has had a little slide but a good weekend against Skidmore and they are right back in the picture for an at large. 3 of 4 will make them 30-10 and 26-9 in region. Like I said before I think this year the Liberty League has 2 quality teams that deserve a bid.

Cortland -  on fire
U of R
RPI
Ithaca - lost 2 of last 3
NEAC
Down state team

would be a good regional!! Add St John Fisher and a New England team and it could be really fun!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on May 01, 2008, 12:08:48 pm
what has St John Fisher done to deserve a spot in the regionals??? Id rather see the SUNYAC runner up get in before fisher does, Oneonta and Brockport each had there way with them this yr
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 01, 2008, 12:25:55 pm
NY Region baseball is not  bad by any means but top to bottom New England and the Mid-Atlantic are probably deeper (because of more teams).  

I'll give you the top 5-6 teams in the Mid-Atlantic and the top 4 in New England as being good teams, but the rest of the teams in the regional rankings are not very good.
http://ncaa.com/rankings/default.aspx?id=212508

Are top 3 always can play with anyone in the nation, Cortland, IC and RPI.

Brockport, Oneonta, U of R, SJF would beat the bottom half of the regional rankings from the Mid-Atlantic and New England just as much as they get beat. So why ship teams to NY?

After the elite teams in D-3, the mid level of the rest of the field is dead even. Take a mediocre team from NE and send them to NY just because there are more teams in NE. Thats ridiculous!

It was proposterous 2-3 yrs ago when they shipped ECONN to NY. They were good enough to beat a loaded cortland team and represent NY in the WS but not good enough to make the NE regional. POLITICS

Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on May 01, 2008, 12:47:25 pm
I agree! ECONN should have stayed in New England. Cortland IC and RPI are always tough and have good pitching. U of R has shown they can play with good teams this year. After looking at it maybe the SUNYAC runnner up could go ahead of Fisher, but when you have 14 loses or more it will be pretty tough to get by the committee. I think if they ship somebody in they should ship a champion of a weaker league and not a pool C team.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: StarvinMarvin on May 01, 2008, 01:16:20 pm
Let's not forget that a certain team who is currently 32-0 (Trinity, Conn.) was shipped in last year and it's basically the same team this year with the exception of one position player I believe, two at most but all their pitching is back.  Cortland is the one seed last year and plays Trinity in game two and faces the best pitcher other than Dougher in the tournament.  That team belonged in the NE regional last year and a team like Brockport or RPI should have had their spot.  I'm tired of people calling the NY region weak when it's the most difficult region to rectruit good players in due to weather, 33 DI programs in the state or something around there to compete with not to mention other DIII, DII and JUCO programs.  That's not to mention that if their is a STUD up here southern schools pluck them from the state.  We have lacrosse to compete with which is taking baseball players away although I understand there's other states that have lacrosse.  It's not easy being a DIII program to get good players whatsoever and all the more reason to give the NY region some respect.  You have the state of Wisconsin for example where there's one DI program in the whole state (UW-Milwaukee) so DIII schools in that state can get a second rounder like Jordan Zimmerman or a Greg Rhinehard (5th rounder for UW-Whitewater), Kevin Tomasciewicz (18th rounder for UW-Whitewater who beat Cortland in the National Championship game.  Any of those kids in NY would have gone out of state or at the least been at a DI in NY.  They certainly wouldn't have ended up at a DIII program out of high school.  NY region deserves some love!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 01, 2008, 01:33:05 pm
Aren't all those reasons as to why DIII baseball in New York from top to bottom could be a little weaker?  I looked at those regional rankings and many of those New England schools are pretty solid.  Some of you need to keep in mind that the conferences those teams play in are pretty strong.  Williams isn't even regionally ranked and they just beat RPI.  Not to mention the NESCAC has Trinity and Amherst who are both ranked in their region.  The NESCAC top to bottom is as good if not better than any conference in NY.  I by no means mean to imply that NY baseball is not good at all.  But people need to keep in mind a team like Williams has been as consistently as good as Ithaca over the last 5 years, playing a comprable schedule overall, and in a significantly stronger conference, and they're not even ranked in region.  You can't argue that New England is deeper (and rightfully so they have more schools and more automatic bids) which means they have to ship a team out of region.  Take the Mid-Atlantic region as well, the NJAC is arguably the strongest conference in the country.  Those teams beat up on eachother causing some of them to have weaker records.  I do not think NY should have 8 teams appearing in regionals, that's completely absurd. 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on May 01, 2008, 01:40:20 pm
The NY region has done very well this year out of region. Cortalnd has beat some good New England, South and Mid Atlantic Teams. Ithaca played some California teams although they lost to all the good ones, but beat ECONN. RPI beat Ripon, Augustana and Rhode Island College who are all having great season out of region. Other teams have played some tough games against other regions making a good showing. Trinity shouldn't have even made the NCAA's last year. They didn't even qualify for their own league tourney, but qualify for the NCAA's? That would never happen to a NY team. Brockport or RPI were way more deserving. If your nor good enough to make your own league tourney, there should be no NCAA's, EVER.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: StarvinMarvin on May 01, 2008, 01:44:36 pm
BaseB13....I figured that you would be the first to chime in on my comments and bring up your favorite program, Williams.  I guess those reasons I gave could be looked at as making the NY region weak but I look at it as a credit to those teams in the region who have wins against top programs across the country.  To be good in NY going up against the factors I gave is a credit to the good programs in the region.  It is not absurd to think that all NY teams can represent the region because Westfield St. was in the regional last year and they were as good as a high school JV team so what's the point?  Brockport and RPI are ten times better than them.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 01, 2008, 02:19:12 pm
Poppycock, so what williams beat RPI. Who threw for both teams? If it weren't their 1-4's that means nothing.
A nothing game in the middle of the week when both(at least 1) probably had league games on the weekend and threw whomever had a arm!

NY's top 4 teams every year can represent nationally without a problem. You throw a team like westfield state a bone last year and leave brockport out. Brockport could have won the NY regional last and yet they are home and I laughed watching westfield brutalize baseball in the NY regional. They are 2nd rate in NE and wouldn't even made the SUNYAC Tourney.

The problem lies in the fact that there is a option for sending teams to other regionals. Take that option away and you are left with the best from each region playing for all the marbles. You could have a 4 team ny regional and you would here no complaints from my.
How do you justify having a 7 team regional with an out of region team competing in that regional and leaving a quality NY team at home. Make it a 8 teamer and let the guys decide the thing on the field!
I hate politics and all that crap about influences on national commitee's etc..
Help me get another team in from my region and I'll help you, blah blah blah. Thats what it boils down to.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Rick Vaughn on May 01, 2008, 03:29:01 pm
Lots of complaining going on here.  Just wanted to let you know that the NE regional was disappointed that Westfield St. did not go to the Cape because it would have been a guaranteed win for their first and second opponents.  Tough luck, but just like some conferences in NY, some conferences in NE are just awful and a champion that bad is the result.  If you are tired of NE teams coming into the NY regional and winning games do the simple thing.  Beat them.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on May 01, 2008, 04:04:39 pm
I don't care what you say about Trinity last year...  record be damned, they couldn't get into their conference tournament so they should NOT have gone to the NCAA regionals in ANY region.  This year is a different story.

And for the record, I don't think anyone should be moved into another region... especially into NY.  If there are 7 AQ's in a given region, then the regions need to be realigned to equal out the AQ's in each region OR the teams need to win their conference.

Just my two cents on it...
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Rick Vaughn on May 01, 2008, 06:29:53 pm
I agree on Trinity last year.  They had no business making the tournament last year.  I would say that was very political.  I don't know how involved he is, but I do know that Trin coach Bill Decker is very involved in the selection side for the tournament.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 01, 2008, 07:11:35 pm
Forget about the curveball ricky, give 'em the heater!

No one is complaining about NE teams, they have good teams and bad alike just like every region.
The point is NY teams and NE teams should meet 2 at different times, regular season and at the WS not in the NY region!
For the most part, NY teams fair well vs NE teams and we aint ducking anyone. Especially my squad, Cortland St!
But when you ship a team good enough to win the NE region, 2005 ECONN to NY something is not kosher.
Also, when you don't even make your own conference tourney and make the NY regional over Brockport, that is political BS at the highest level of political BS!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on May 01, 2008, 08:25:42 pm
Everyone here makes valid points and arguments, and I admire all of the experience expressed in your comments.

Question -  And this has probably been bantered around forever......what is the simplest, fairest, most realistic way of having consistent regional tournament alignment each and every year from the NCAA?  Is there a simple resolution, or is the NCAA trying to be democratic/political to "help" those schools or conferences get a chance at making into the tournament process altogether?  Is there too much parity in one conference as opposed to another (too many good teams in one conference and not too many in another), or is evreything based upon record?


Its just my opinion but, there should never be a team from another area/region/conference put into another region for the sake of balance!!!


What am I missing here??
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: pudge27 on May 01, 2008, 09:01:24 pm
My 2 cents would be to agree with those that suggest that the regional tournament should have in-region teams.  If there is a particular year where one region is extremely strong and another region is very weak, I could see bringing in a team to be the 7 or 8 seed. That being said, I think that the past couple of years when ECONN and Trinity came into the NY Region didn't make sense. 

I didn't see Trinity play last year, so take this for what it's worth, but I've heard from a few sources that Trinity (talent-wise) was more like a solid 2-3 seed in any region.  I can't beleive that they were the 8th or 9th best team in their region.  Arguments about them not making their conference tourney aside, if they're good enough to put in the tourney, seed them where they should be. 

I think it would be like shipping Ithaca or RPI to another region and making them a 7 seed. 

I'm not sure if it will change any time soon, but it sure does seem like they are bent on making things more difficult.  Not to beat a dead horse, but the 7 team regional idea is just dumb.  Just pick another team and you won't need Steven Hawking to track your brackets. 

Anyone ever seen the "Go phone" commercial with Meatloaf singing to his kid?  I feel dumber for having seen it.  I'm embarassed for him. 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: OshDude on May 01, 2008, 09:14:23 pm
My 2 cents would be to agree with those that suggest that the regional tournament should have in-region teams.  If there is a particular year where one region is extremely strong and another region is very weak, I could see bringing in a team to be the 7 or 8 seed. That being said, I think that the past couple of years when ECONN and Trinity came into the NY Region didn't make sense. 

I didn't see Trinity play last year, so take this for what it's worth, but I've heard from a few sources that Trinity (talent-wise) was more like a solid 2-3 seed in any region.  I can't beleive that they were the 8th or 9th best team in their region.  Arguments about them not making their conference tourney aside, if they're good enough to put in the tourney, seed them where they should be. 

I think it would be like shipping Ithaca or RPI to another region and making them a 7 seed. 

I'm not sure if it will change any time soon, but it sure does seem like they are bent on making things more difficult.  Not to beat a dead horse, but the 7 team regional idea is just dumb.  Just pick another team and you won't need Steven Hawking to track your brackets. 

Anyone ever seen the "Go phone" commercial with Meatloaf singing to his kid?  I feel dumber for having seen it.  I'm embarassed for him
LOL. You're late to the party. That queue started forming after he released "Two out of three ain't bad."

Oh, and there are no seven-team regionals this year – just 6s and 8s.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on May 01, 2008, 09:14:58 pm
LOL... thanks for the chuckle with the Hawking comment!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 01, 2008, 09:21:40 pm
The problem is that some conference's garner AQ's(automatic qualifiers, pool A) for winning the conference tournament like the SUNYAC and then you have the E-8 that doesn't get an AQ, rather they receive a pool B bid. Pool C are the leftover bids that are handed out to the teams that are most deserving that didn't win a qualifying conference touranment or get the Pool B bids. I really don't fully understand the process, but that is the gist of the ways teams can get in! This leaves alot of political jostling room in the pool B and pool C areas.

The process is flawed because you can't give every conference winner a pool A because that leaves little or no room for the good teams that don't win their conference to get in!

My suggestion would be:
-make a 64 team tournament, 8 regions, 8 teams per region and no out of region movement and have at it double elim style!
-the NCAA regional rankings would determine who gets in and who doesn't and that eleviates the Pool A, B, C nonsense.
-you need to still play the hell out of your conference touranment because that directly effects the regional rankings.
The best part is you know going into the season that you have to be in that top 8 come the 2nd week in May and it takes into account your whole body of teams played during the season!

The way I see it, this leaves way less to question than the current format and more teams get a chance!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: pudge27 on May 01, 2008, 09:28:27 pm
Osh, didn't realize that they decided to do 6 or 8.  That's a move in the right direction.  I would agree with Scuba on the 64 team tourney.  As long as your going to have 50 some teams make the postseason, make it 8 8-team regionals.  The team on the wrong side of the bubble can and will always moan, but I can't imagine that any of the regions have 9 or 10 teams with a true and legit chance to win a regional tournament. 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 01, 2008, 10:44:44 pm
Starvin and the rest of you that seem to feel NY should only have NY region teams.  I think people need to take a look at the bigger picture and actually have an understanding of Division III baseball on the national level.  Trinity may or may not have deserved an at large bid last year.  However, they received a Pool C bid.  Keep in mind how competitive the NESCAC is compared to any conference in NY.  And Starvin, Williams is not my favorite team, I just happen to have an understanding of programs outside of NY and I'm quite aware of how strong some of those conferences and programs are.  Someone please explain how you can justify New York region teams have the same amount of bids when New York has 37 programs and then say New England should have the same amount of bids when they have 66+ teams.  Do the numbers fellas, it doesn't add up.  This is why New York has a New England team shipped to its region.  There are too many automatic qualifiers not to do this.  As for which teams get shipped to New York, that depends on geography.  There are distance limits that D3 teams are allowed to travel for regions.  In essence the term "Regional" does not mean it has to only include teams from that region.  This is why Trinity and ECONN and Westfield have all been shipped out here.  It's no surprise that two are CT schools and 1 is a Western Mass school instead of the New England teams from say, Maine.  This is also why in 1999 U of Rochester was shipped to the Ohio regional.  Hands down New England has more quality programs than NY, and rightfully so, they have almost twice as many schools.  This isn't a knock on NY, it's just basic math and numbers.  If you really wanted to make it fair NY should have a team from:
SUNYAC, LL, E8, Skyline, NEAC (I guess this year), and one at large.  That would be a 6 team regional.  But then what do you do with the excess New England teams?  Have them play a 10 team regional?  Doesnt make sense, so instead they send a team to New York.. Seems like the best solution... 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2008, 11:37:17 pm
The problem is that some conference's garner AQ's(automatic qualifiers, pool A) for winning the conference tournament like the SUNYAC and then you have the E-8 that doesn't get an AQ, rather they receive a pool B bid. Pool C are the leftover bids that are handed out to the teams that are most deserving that didn't win a qualifying conference tournament or get the Pool B bids. I really don't fully understand the process, but that is the gist of the ways teams can get in! This leaves a lot of political jostling room in the pool B and pool C areas.

The NCAA awards (and budgets) one playoff bid in most of the team sports at a ratio of one bid for every 6.5 participating schools.   (That is why we 54 bids in baseball, 63 in women's hoops, etc.  Some of the sports have a higher ratio, e.g., golf is 1:7.5.)  The money for this comes from the March Madness contract.  If a conference has at least 4  full and a total of 7 full and affiliate members (why the E8 changed the policy on affiliates in football), then the conference gets a Pool A bid.  The Pool B bids are allocated by taking all of the Pool B teams and dividing that number by the average membership of the 34 Pool A conferences to get 6 Pool B bids.  The remaining number of bids are allocated to Pool C.  Last year, the E8 got a Pool B (Ithaca) and a Pool C bid (SJF), not too shabby.  The Selection Committee determined by the crtieria that they (SJF) deserved a Pool C bid.  The selection criteria are listed in the Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/baseball/2008/2008_d3_baseball_handbook.pdf).

The process is flawed because you can't give every conference winner a pool A because that leaves little or no room for the good teams that don't win their conference to get in!

Every full conference (7 members) has a Pool A bid.  The NWC and the SCIAC don't have post-season tourneys.  The conference winner gets the Bid.  The only conferences that do not have a Pool A bid are the Capital AC (Salisbury), the UAA (Emory and WashStL in 2007), E8 (Ithaca and SJF), CUNYAC, the Landmark and Northern Athletics Conference.  There will be 14 Pool C bids to the 14 best teams that did not earn a Pool A or Pool B bid.  In 2009, the Northern Athletics Conference gets its Pool A bid, taking one away from Pool B, and the Landmark in 2010, taking another one from Pool B.  The Capital AC now has 7 full members and probably gets a Pool A bid in 2010.

My suggestion would be:
-make a 64 team tournament, 8 regions, 8 teams per region and no out of region movement and have at it double elim style! (Why does the New York Region with 37 schools deserve 8 playoff bids and the New England Region with 62 schools or the Mid-Atlantic Region with 57 schools get only 8?  The member institutions in the NCAA tried that in the 1990's decided it did not like it.  That is why we have the Pool System in all sports.)
-the NCAA regional rankings would determine who gets in and who doesn't and that elevates the Pool A, B, C nonsense. (It was the Pool B and C system that gave Ithaca and SJF bids last year.  The committee also determined that there were no other candidates in 2007.  The same system gave Brockport and Cortland State bids in 2004.  This year, if Cortland is upset in the Post-season tourney and someone else gets the SUNYAC Pool A bid, then Cortland almost certainly gets a Pool C bid, and knocks out the 14th team.)
-you need to still play the hell out of your conference tournament because that directly effects the regional rankings.
The best part is you know going into the season that you have to be in that top 8 come the 2nd week in May and it takes into account your whole body of teams played during the season!  (It takes into account the teams in your region.  You are judged in head-to-head outcomes versus every other team in New York, one of the primary criteria.) 

The way I see it, this leaves way less to question than the current format and more teams get a chance!  Actually, the Pool System evolved to give every school in D3 a chance.  Every school knows what it needs to do to earn a bid.  If there is a game that you should not have lost, and you did not make the playoffs, that is probably the game (or games) you should not have lost.
Enjoy the Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/baseball/2008/2008_d3_baseball_handbook.pdf)  :)
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 01, 2008, 11:48:05 pm
Starvin and the rest of you that seem to feel NY should only have NY region teams.  I think people need to take a look at the bigger picture and actually have an understanding of Division III baseball on the national level.  Trinity may or may not have deserved an at large bid last year.  However, they received a Pool C bid.  Keep in mind how competitive the NESCAC is compared to any conference in NY.  And Starvin, Williams is not my favorite team, I just happen to have an understanding of programs outside of NY and I'm quite aware of how strong some of those conferences and programs are.  Someone please explain how you can justify New York region teams have the same amount of bids when New York has 37 programs and then say New England should have the same amount of bids when they have 66+ teams.  Do the numbers fellas, it doesn't add up.  This is why New York has a New England team shipped to its region.  There are too many automatic qualifiers not to do this.  As for which teams get shipped to New York, that depends on geography.  There are distance limits that D3 teams are allowed to travel for regions.  In essence the term "Regional" does not mean it has to only include teams from that region.  This is why Trinity and ECONN and Westfield have all been shipped out here.  It's no surprise that two are CT schools and 1 is a Western Mass school instead of the New England teams from say, Maine.  This is also why in 1999 U of Rochester was shipped to the Ohio regional.  Hands down New England has more quality programs than NY, and rightfully so, they have almost twice as many schools.  This isn't a knock on NY, it's just basic math and numbers.  If you really wanted to make it fair NY should have a team from:
SUNYAC, LL, E8, Skyline, NEAC (I guess this year), and one at large.  That would be a 6 team regional.  But then what do you do with the excess New England teams?  Have them play a 10 team regional?  Doesnt make sense, so instead they send a team to New York.. Seems like the best solution... 
Good post!  +1!

The thing that most likely determines a 6-team or an 8-team bracket is travel expense.  You already have at least 3 plane flights to Texas on the West Coast.  The NCAA doesn't like to buy plane tickets.

If they can put 8 teams into Auburn most economically, then it will likely happen.  :)
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 02, 2008, 09:59:40 am
Ralph,
Thanks for quoting the handbook.
So what you are saying is that the NCAA D-3 baseball commitee has it exactly dead nuts right when it comes to this process? No room for change or tweaking?
FYI, There are reasons why federal, state, local laws and guidelines change everyday, THEY ARE FLAWED. Just like this D-3 Baseball selection process in some instances.
Usually what happens is the people that came up with the process are more worried about keeping it the way they made it (arrogance)instead of changing it and getting it RIGHT!

As far as NY having 8 teams, I could care less, it should be a 4 team tourney. The problem I have is that you leave out Brockport last year, bring in a team from NE that didn't qualify for its own conference tournament and have a 7 team double elim tournament with byes? Makes no sense not to include Brockport and make it a 8 teamer with no one getting a bye!

I guess its a step in the right direction to go to either 6 or 8 teamers for this year.
Quick question though, If this happened last year(only 6 or 8 teams), I would assume Brockport or another NY team would have been the 8th team in the NY regional and if so that proves my point.


Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 02, 2008, 10:19:21 am
Thanks for the post Ralph.  It's very beneficial to have all of this explained so that people are aware of why certain things happen.  Are Pool C bids divided up evenly amongst regions?  In other words, did New York have one Pool C bid to receive, and SJFC was chosen?  And therefore Trinity received a pool C bid that was allocated for New England?  Or are Pool C bids simply handed out regardless of a teams regional location.  If this is the case then it sounds like Scuba's unhappiness with Brockport being left out should last year should be directed toward SJFC.  If this is not the case then Scuba would have to look at each Pool C bid that was handed out and see who Brockport was stronger than.  If Trinity had played in the NY region and got bounced after two games I could see there being a legitimate case.  However, Trinity did happen to beat the team that won the region.  Tough to say they didn't belong in NCAA's at all.  Unfortunately teams do make the tournament based on reputation sometimes.  A perfect example of this is IC in 2005 with a record of 22-13-2 going in to regional play.  Not usual IC numbers.  But guess what?  They made it to the regional final so clearly they belonged.

I'm not saying the current setting is perfect, and I have said the massive expansion of the tournament field does seem to water it down.  However, at the end of the day, a lot of it has to do with $$, especially at the D3 level where almost no revenue is generated.  Ideally every team should be seeded from 1 to 64 or however many teams are in the NCAA tournament and teams should be shipped all over the country (similar to D1) so that the best teams play the weakest teams in regionals.  This would be extremely expensive and that's why it doesn't happen.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 02, 2008, 10:50:43 am
Rummy, Read my post!
I am not redirecting any of my angst!
I don't care about brockport, I don't even like brockport. The point is Trinity didn't make their conference tournament and gets a regional bid to NY, fair or unfair it made NY a 7 team regional which is retarded because you get 1 bye in the opening round, then another bye in the loser bracket and 2 other loser bracket teams have to play. It gives somebody an unfair advantage in the 1st round and the losers bracket.
NY should have been an 8 team last year incuding Brockport and Trinity and
no one would be complaining.

Question: why only go 6 or 8 team regionals this year?????

Answer: BECAUSE IT WAS DUMB TO HAVE A 7 OR 5 TEAM REGIONALS LAST
YEAR and some suit at the NCAA realized it and made the right call for a change!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on May 02, 2008, 01:14:32 pm
Trinity did not make their own conference tournament. Because of that they shouldn't have gotten an NCAA bid, no matter what! So they beat Cortland last year. Cortland still came back and showed them who was boss. Cortland should have won that game if it wern't for poor officiating.

I'm with scuba.

If Trinity was so good they should have stayed in NE.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: StarvinMarvin on May 02, 2008, 03:40:40 pm
Thanks for the post Ralph.  It's very beneficial to have all of this explained so that people are aware of why certain things happen.  Are Pool C bids divided up evenly amongst regions?  In other words, did New York have one Pool C bid to receive, and SJFC was chosen?  And therefore Trinity received a pool C bid that was allocated for New England?  Or are Pool C bids simply handed out regardless of a teams regional location.  If this is the case then it sounds like Scuba's unhappiness with Brockport being left out should last year should be directed toward SJFC.  If this is not the case then Scuba would have to look at each Pool C bid that was handed out and see who Brockport was stronger than.  If Trinity had played in the NY region and got bounced after two games I could see there being a legitimate case.  However, Trinity did happen to beat the team that won the region.  Tough to say they didn't belong in NCAA's at all.  Unfortunately teams do make the tournament based on reputation sometimes.  A perfect example of this is IC in 2005 with a record of 22-13-2 going in to regional play.  Not usual IC numbers.  But guess what?  They made it to the regional final so clearly they belonged.

I'm not saying the current setting is perfect, and I have said the massive expansion of the tournament field does seem to water it down.  However, at the end of the day, a lot of it has to do with $$, especially at the D3 level where almost no revenue is generated.  Ideally every team should be seeded from 1 to 64 or however many teams are in the NCAA tournament and teams should be shipped all over the country (similar to D1) so that the best teams play the weakest teams in regionals.  This would be extremely expensive and that's why it doesn't happen.


By the way, Trinity did not make it to the regional final as that would be Ithaca who was beaten twice on that day by Cortland.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 02, 2008, 05:10:09 pm
Keep in mind how competitive the NESCAC is compared to any conference in NY.   

You mean the same NESCAC that has hamilton college in it?  Every year the NESCAC is very competitive but in what way does that make them better overall teams than NY teams? Just because the teams are competitive only makes them around the same ability and in no way reflects how they stack up against teams from different regions

Hands down New England has more quality programs than NY, and rightfully so, they have almost twice as many schools. 

You are going to have to give some better concrete evidence of this bonehead statement other than they just are! Have you seen all of the teams in both regions play? How many inter region games have been played between NE and NY, who played them and what were the scores?

If teams don't play it is pure speculation on what conferences and/or regions are better in any given year. The only measuring stick you have is the WS and a few early/spring break or mid week games later in the year to base your opinion on!
If you are going to make a statement that NE in hands down better than NY, back it up with facts!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 02, 2008, 07:30:48 pm
Starvin, I never said Trinity made it to the regional final.  I said they beat the regional winner.  As for who should have won the Trinity/Cortland game, whichever played for Cortland from the left side of the infield that threw the ball 10 feet away from first base when the baserunner was already by the bag, that cost them the game.  Ball should have never been thrown, who knows what happens after that though, regardless things worked out for Cortland.

This is very simple, if Pool C bids are allocated evenly between regions then Trinity may have very well been the next best overall team in New England regardless of making their conference tournament.  If this is not the case then I can see how there very well may have been other teams throughout the country who could complain that they did not get in and Trinity did.  However, it's difficult to say Trinity didn't "belong" in the regional when they did beat the regional winner one of the games.  If Trinity had not been shipped to New York, another team from New England would have if that team received Trinity's Pool C bid.

I did not say the best team in New England is better than the best team in NY.  I did say that New England has more top teams than New York.  To debate this would be ridiculous.  NY has half the teams that New England has so this makes perfect sense.   I agree 7 team regions are stupid, but clearly this happened because the field was expanded from 42 in 2005 to 53 in 2006.  An odd number like that requires weird regional numbers.  I do not believe there were ANY 8 teams regionals that year.  See Ralph's post as to why these weird number of teams are selected. 

Scuba look at your own regional rankings.  Look at the programs ranked in New England and compare them to New York.  Seriously who is so amazing in New York other than Cortland?  Let's say Cortland and Trinity are equally as good , they're the top two teams in each region.  Wheaton is 31 - 8 with losses to Cortland, Montclair, TCNJ and EConn, that makes up like 6 of their losses.  So theyve basically beat every other team theyve played.  I don't know exactly how good each team theyve played but winning 31 games is pretty legit.  I'd say theyre atleast as good as Ithaca.  After that in NY who is so great?  Rochester just got swept by SJFC, and SJFC has played almost no one this year.  RPI got their ass handed to them by UR so whats that say about them?  I suppose you want to say that those teams are better than EConn? Maybe but I highly doubt it.  Then you have Amherst who plays in the tough nescac.. Let's not forget Williams isnt even ranked in their region and they just beat RPI.  And yes Hamilton does play in the NESCAC but look at the bad teams in the SUNYAC, E8, and LL.  Theyre pretty bad too.  I have seen many of these NE teams play in the past, and if their programs are similar to how they were a couple years ago then the region must be pretty strong if a team like Williams is not ranked (beat Brockport).  Top to bottom New England is deeper.  They have twice as many teams. 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 02, 2008, 07:56:26 pm
Thanks for the post Ralph.  It's very beneficial to have all of this explained so that people are aware of why certain things happen.  Are Pool C bids divided up evenly amongst regions?

No, there is no specific allocation to one region, just 14 Pool C bids for all of D3.

In other words, did New York have one Pool C bid to receive, and SJFC was chosen? 

No, SJF, a Pool B team did not receive one of the 6 Pool B's and therefore was still able to get a Pool C bid.

And therefore Trinity received a pool C bid that was allocated for New England?  Or are Pool C bids simply handed out regardless of a teams regional location?

Yes!

If this is the case then it sounds like Scuba's unhappiness with Brockport being left out should last year should be directed toward SJFC. 

He might as well pick on SJF as anyone, or Oneonta or RPI or Rochester Tech.  In the third regional ranking and the last one that we saw in 2007, Brockport was no where on the map in the NY Region going into the last weekend of play!  I have their in-region record at about 21-11.    Under .667 is way back in the pack!


New York
1. Cortland State 28-4 35-4
2. Ithaca 19-7 24-11
3. St. John Fisher 21-10 23-10
4. Oneonta State 21-8 23-9
5. Rensselaer 20-8 23-8
6. Rochester Tech 17-8 21-10



If this is not the case then Scuba would have to look at each Pool C bid that was handed out and see who Brockport was stronger than.  If Trinity had played in the NY region and got bounced after two games I could see there being a legitimate case.  However, Trinity did happen to beat the team that won the region.  Tough to say they didn't belong in NCAA's at all.  Unfortunately teams do make the tournament based on reputation sometimes.

This is happening with much, much, much less frequency, if at all with the new objective criteria in the handbook!   I repeat...if you have doubts about a loss being a "good loss", then for the sake of the selection committee, that was a bad loss!  What may be a good loss?  Splitting a series 2-2 on the road at Cortland or Ithaca.  What is a bad loss?  Here (http://www.brockport.edu/athletics/baseball/history/Statistics/2007/042207b.htm), and here (http://www.brockport.edu/athletics/baseball/history/Statistics/2007/041907b.htm).   ;) 

A perfect example of this is IC in 2005 with a record of 22-13-2 going in to regional play.  Not usual IC numbers.  But guess what?  They made it to the regional final so clearly they belonged.

I'm not saying the current setting is perfect, and I have said the massive expansion of the tournament field does seem to water it down.  However, at the end of the day, a lot of it has to do with $$, especially at the D3 level where almost no revenue is generated.  Ideally every team should be seeded from 1 to 64 or however many teams are in the NCAA tournament and teams should be shipped all over the country (similar to D1) so that the best teams play the weakest teams in regionals.  This would be extremely expensive and that's why it doesn't happen.

Yes!  Every team has equal access.  Every team knows what it needs to do to earn a bid!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 02, 2008, 07:58:40 pm
Rummy, Read my post!
I am not redirecting any of my angst!
I don't care about brockport, I don't even like brockport. The point is Trinity didn't make their conference tournament and gets a regional bid to NY, fair or unfair it made NY a 7 team regional which is retarded because you get 1 bye in the opening round, then another bye in the loser bracket and 2 other loser bracket teams have to play. It gives somebody an unfair advantage in the 1st round and the losers bracket.
NY should have been an 8 team last year incuding Brockport and Trinity and
no one would be complaining.

Question: why only go 6 or 8 team regionals this year?????

Answer: BECAUSE IT WAS DUMB TO HAVE A 7 OR 5 TEAM REGIONALS LAST
YEAR and some suit at the NCAA realized it and made the right call for a change!
Actually the NCAA budgeted and allocated 53 bids according to the formula in 2007.  They have budgeted 54 bids in 2008, because of the growth in D-III.  :)
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 03, 2008, 01:32:54 am
Thank you Ralph.  Maybe you can talk some sense in to them because I clearly cannot.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: StarvinMarvin on May 03, 2008, 10:19:27 am
BaseB13, reread the last sentence of the first paragraph you posted and you clearly state that Trinity made it to the regional final so clearly they belonged.  You're telling me you didn't say that?
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 03, 2008, 03:03:27 pm
"If Trinity had played in the NY region and got bounced after two games I could see there being a legitimate case.  However, Trinity did happen to beat the team that won the region.  Tough to say they didn't belong in NCAA's at all.  Unfortunately teams do make the tournament based on reputation sometimes.  A perfect example of this is IC in 2005 with a record of 22-13-2 going in to regional play.  Not usual IC numbers.  But guess what?  They made it to the regional final so clearly they belonged."


That's what I said.  I said Trinity beat the regional finalist in 2007.  I said some teams make the tourney because of program reputation (which may have happened with Trinity) and that in 2005 IC's record was not that great but they got in even though there were 30 game winners that were also independent that did not get in in 2005.  However, IC did make it to the regional final so it's tough to argue they didn't belond in the tournament despite a subpar year for IC's standards.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: StarvinMarvin on May 03, 2008, 04:38:56 pm
You're clearly missing the point, I'm not debating that they didn't belong in a regional, I was rewriting your words.  I'm merely telling you that you wrote in the last sentence of the first paragraph that Trinity was in the regional final and I was correcting you because that would be IC. "TRINITY made it to the REGIONAL FINAL so clearly they belonged." 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: pudge27 on May 03, 2008, 07:06:39 pm
I think that this issue is getting a bit old.  There are good points on both sides.  I hadn't realized the discrepency in number of teams in the NE Region vs. NY.  On the flip side, it seems strange to weigh the in region games so heavily and then bring in an outside team.  It's almost like the term region is a firm institution during the course of the year, but "fluid" when it needs to be at the end of the season.  It would be impossible to predict how a NE team would have done if they had played in NY all year.  There probably is and should be more quality teams in NE if they do in fact have almost double the programs.  I'll bet that there's a heck of a lot more creampuffs as well.  I'm not making any assumptions about Trinity from last year or ECONN from 2005, but it seems like it would be pretty easy to rack up a lot of in-region wins in a large region.  Assuming that there are 66+ teams in the NE Region.  Probably 10 of them are quality.  That's a lot of crappy teams to rack of wins against. 

Back to the NY region.  Cortland is looking good, RPI took 2 today, UR is struggling a bit.  What's new with the Bombers?  Are they sitting at home waiting for their Sponsor's exemption for the tournament to come in or are they playing at all lately? 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on May 03, 2008, 07:57:23 pm
Ithaca will probably get their sponsors exemption like every year. Instead of playing in the ECAC and have to play games that mean something in NY late in the year, they play Montclair St which for them is out of region.  It would be interesting if they went to the ECAC and had to play an elimination tourney before the NCAA's like the SUNYAC and Liberty League.  It seems those two leagues end up hurting their chances for 2 bids by having the tourney. Brockport and RPI last year lost in the league tourneys which ended up getting them bounced from the tourney.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: shoeless on May 03, 2008, 08:29:34 pm
I think that this issue is getting a bit old.  There are good points on both sides.  I hadn't realized the discrepency in number of teams in the NE Region vs. NY.  On the flip side, it seems strange to weigh the in region games so heavily and then bring in an outside team.  It's almost like the term region is a firm institution during the course of the year, but "fluid" when it needs to be at the end of the season.  It would be impossible to predict how a NE team would have done if they had played in NY all year.  There probably is and should be more quality teams in NE if they do in fact have almost double the programs.  I'll bet that there's a heck of a lot more creampuffs as well.  I'm not making any assumptions about Trinity from last year or ECONN from 2005, but it seems like it would be pretty easy to rack up a lot of in-region wins in a large region.  Assuming that there are 66+ teams in the NE Region.  Probably 10 of them are quality.  That's a lot of crappy teams to rack of wins against. 

Back to the NY region.  Cortland is looking good, RPI took 2 today, UR is struggling a bit.  What's new with the Bombers?  Are they sitting at home waiting for their Sponsor's exemption for the tournament to come in or are they playing at all lately? 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 03, 2008, 08:33:50 pm
I think that this issue is getting a bit old.  There are good points on both sides.  I hadn't realized the discrepancy in number of teams in the NE Region vs. NY.  On the flip side, it seems strange to weigh the in region games so heavily and then bring in an outside team.  It's almost like the term region is a firm institution during the course of the year, but "fluid" when it needs to be at the end of the season. ...
If you will notice the Official Website, the NCAA now titles the regional brackets by the location, and not the evaluation region which predominates.  The Selection Committee is trying its best to maintain the regional emphasis that is the core of D-III, while trying to balance equal access for every member and yet have enough at-large teams (Pool C bids) to pick up the "best-of-the-rest".
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 04, 2008, 01:08:51 am
I'll say this.. based on how things are going lately, I dont know what to think.  SJFC loses two to RIT after taking two from UR.  UR loses the two to SJFC after taking 3 of 4 from RPI.  I'm not sure at this point that the LL deserves more than one team.  I also thought after the sweep of UR that SJFC had a good shot but they needed to win all four from RIT.  I don't think SJFC deserves a bid now.  I do think Brockport is making a big case for an at large bid.  Infact, if Brockport beats Cortland once tomorrow, I think they'd be most deserving of an at large bid of any team in NY.  Funny how a couple weeks ago I felt they were down a little this year.  (Altho losing to Oneonta in the opener hurts a little). 

Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 04, 2008, 09:52:09 am
Its a game and thats why the games are played on the field, not on this forum! Anybody can be beat on any given day. Thats why I always have said that the early to mid season polls are sometimes misleading!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: pudge27 on May 04, 2008, 12:24:38 pm
Its a game and thats why the games are played on the field, not on this forum! Anybody can be beat on any given day. Thats why I always have said that the early to mid season polls are sometimes misleading!


You're absolutely right Scuba.  Someone once told me that in sports, it's not how you start, it's how you finish.  Can't remember who.  To BB13's point about Brockport and an at-large bid, they are closing fast, but those 2 losses to Fredonia and 1 to SUNY Utica will stick out like a big chancre to the people picking the bids. 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on May 04, 2008, 12:57:17 pm
BaseB13.....

Your right!  Maybe the Liberty League deserves only one representative in the New York Regional.  UR lost 4 of 5 last season to St.John Fisher, and then two in a row this year, plus the two to Clarkson and the one to Vassar.  RPI lost some games they shouldn't have either, and then your RIT vs. StJF games!!!  Could it be that these players/teams are tired, worried about their final exams coming-up, graduation, whatever?  I don't know.

And like I have said in the past, and 'scuba16' reiterated, "any team can beat any other team on any given day."  Maybe some teams just have this magical, mystical, jinx thing going for them during some of those series??  I really think at times many of these teams get overly confident and think that the easier games are a given.  You need to play each game as if it were your last.  That's just my opinion! 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: D3xprt on May 04, 2008, 03:59:56 pm
the sjfc game that was 9-7 i happened to see.  Rochester lost this one simply on defense.  The 3b missed a ball that started a rally -- couldn't pick up a bunt.  Then with two outs, 2b throw to 2b wide instead of first base on a ball hit between 2b and 1b.  He may have been trying to turn two.

Blunders like that hurt.  Rochester hit the ball better than sjfc and deserved to win the game.

Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on May 04, 2008, 04:43:22 pm
D2xprt.....

As my old friend "shoeless" says, and I totally agree, defense does win games!!!  Its like that in football, baseketball, soccer, etc.  Sure, you need to score more rans than your opponent, but defense lets your pitcher know that the team is there for his efforts.  Obviously that's whats supposed to happen, the defense making the plays and giving the pitcher a good chance of winning.  We all know how the game is played, its just that sometimes the other team won't let that happen.  DAH...right!!!

All I can say is that watching these talented kids, Rochester's, RPI's, Emory's, Wash. U's and all the others I have watched the last two seasons has just made me more of a fan of the game of baseball.  I've learned about rules that I didn't know about before and seen plays that I will always remember.  I also know that with all of the talent in New York state, local grown or not, they can play with any other teams from any of the other conferences. 

Go Yellowjackets.......Go Cubs   :D

 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on May 04, 2008, 04:45:24 pm
WOW, I'm also losing my karma's!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: nyy2344nyy on May 04, 2008, 07:26:56 pm
I think that this issue is getting a bit old.  There are good points on both sides.  I hadn't realized the discrepancy in number of teams in the NE Region vs. NY.  On the flip side, it seems strange to weigh the in region games so heavily and then bring in an outside team.  It's almost like the term region is a firm institution during the course of the year, but "fluid" when it needs to be at the end of the season. ...
If you will notice the Official Website, the NCAA now titles the regional brackets by the location, and not the evaluation region which predominates.  The Selection Committee is trying its best to maintain the regional emphasis that is the core of D-III, while trying to balance equal access for every member and yet have enough at-large teams (Pool C bids) to pick up the "best-of-the-rest".

Can anyone explain how the NCAA decides how many teams get into each regional?  What is the criteria for a region having 8 teams and not 6, or vice versa??
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 04, 2008, 08:09:47 pm
Who's online for an at large bid if they don't win their conference tournament?
Remember, the NY region either is going to be a 6 team regional or an 8 team regional.
Past practice usually brings in an out of region team and with the pool A's (4) SUNYAC, NEAC, LL, Skyline + pool B usually IC(1), you have the NCAA either bringin in 1 out of region to make a 6 team regional or 2 to make 7 teams and another team would have to make it to get to an 8 team regional! Could be any of the following teams:


SUNYAC
Brockport                     23-17-1
Oneonta                      24-26
NEAC
Caz                              21-10
Keystone                     27-10 (I think they won the NEAC and pool A but I'm not sure)
LL
U of R                           27-11
RPI                               30-10
Skyline
St Joes LI                    26-15-1
Farmingdale                26-14
Mount Saint Vincent    23-15
E8
Ithaca                          27-11 will probably get a pool B like always
SJF                               23-13-1
RIT                               22-12
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 04, 2008, 08:24:34 pm
I think a lot of it will depend on how people perform in their conference tournaments and ECAC's.  Who is elibigle for ECAC's?  I know all E8 teams are eligible but I believe if a team plays in a conference tournament then to play in ECAC's they can't have played over 40 games?  Is this correct?  If that's the case then it appears Brockport would not be eligible.  If RPI atleast makes it to the conference tournament finals then I have to think they will be the at large team if they don't win the LL given that they have won 30 games and based on their reputation.  Not sure SJFC deserves an at large after losing all four to RIT.  Can't see RIT getting one either.  I could see Brockport maybe but those losses to Fredonia hurts and their record is not that great.  I think a 6 team regional will be most likely.  If not I'd guess RPI or UR will be the one to receive an at large even though they both have some key losses assuming they make it to the finals.  Should be interesting.  The LL in general is a little goofy with the whole winning percentage thing.  9 - 11 Clarkson qualifies over 12 - 12 Skidmore.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 05, 2008, 12:19:42 am
Jeez, I go away to Cape Cod for the weekend and an actual discussion breaks out. Regardless, here's what I'm thinking right now for the Auburn, N.Y., regional after this weekend's action.

1. Cortland (Pool A, SUNYAC)
2. Ithaca (Pool B)
3. RPI (Pool A, Liberty League)
4. St. John Fisher (Pool B)
5. Farmingdale State (Pool A, Skyline)
6. Keystone (Pool A, NEAC)

Cortland, Farmingdale and Keystone have clinched automatic bids by winning their respective conference tournaments.

I've changed my mind in the Liberty League and I see RPI advancing from the conference tournament. I think Rochester is on the fence now and could still get into the tournament with a Pool C if no one from out of the region is shipped in.

Side note from previous posts that I missed - ECSU, 2006, the team struggled all year and by all accounts heading into the conference tournament, they wouldn't be going to the NCAAs. All the sudden, the team got hot, won the league tournament and was shipped to Auburn where they had another successful run. I have no problem with Trinity (Conn.) making the field last year either - they proved that they belonged with a couple of wins and a strong performance overall before running out of gas against Cortland in the elimination round.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 05, 2008, 12:45:15 am
Pool C is tightening.

Wooster lost and so did Texas-Tyler.

George Fox was at the top of the West Region bracket last week at #2.

I am thinking that the New York Region might get one Pool C bid, if the team is ranked in the Top 3 (in-region) next Thursday.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 05, 2008, 10:25:55 am
I would say SJF is out with 23 only wins, but there are 2 ways to think about this.
With a 6 team regional with 1 Out of Region participant and I think the NY region will look like this:

1. Cortland (Pool A, SUNYAC)
2. Ithaca (Pool B)
3. RPI (Pool A, Liberty League)
4. Out of Region/NE (Pool C)
5. Farmingdale State (Pool A, Skyline)
6. Keystone (Pool A, NEAC)

With a 8 team regional with 2 Out of Region participants I think the NY region will look like this:

1. Cortland (Pool A, SUNYAC)
2. Ithaca (Pool B)
3. RPI (Pool A, Liberty League)
4. Out of Region 1/NE (Pool C)
5. Farmingdale State (Pool A, Skyline)
6. Keystone (Pool A, NEAC)
7. Out of Region 2/NE (Pool C)
8. SJF / U of R / St. Joes LI / Brockport(Pool B)
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on May 05, 2008, 10:52:38 am
Scuba looks good....Brockport is not a Pool B team however and i think there more likely to send a few New England Pool A's before they send a Pool C to the NY Regional

Scuba keep in mind that In-region Records are the deciding factor in who gets a bid....SJF has 23 wins but almost all of them are In-region wins
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: shoeless on May 05, 2008, 11:28:03 am
Team Defense in playoffs is 100X more important than regualar season

What gives heightened importance to strength in the middle during postseason is the paring down of pitching staffs to  team's  top starters. With teams not having the opportunity to face their opponents' fourth and fifth starters, runs will be harder to come by, defense will be emphasized.  Now is the time to put your best defense on the field.

Here are stats for Liberty league middle infielders and league rank.  Was hard to tell who unions regulars were.  but for argument sake.


Castilla (Vassar) - 16
Glantz (Vassar) – 8
Brown (Union) - 15
Carroll (Union) -  7
Kahovec (Roch) – 16
Stein (Roch) –  15
Muscateillo (RPI) -14
Stroud (RPI)  - 10
Currty (Clarkson) –  11
Bresset (Clarkson) -  9
Brown (skidmore) –  6
Ferri (Skidmore) – 12
Ford (St Law) - 14
Harris (St Law) – 10

Team Rankings worst to first up the middle:
1. Rochester with 31 Errors
2 Vassar with 24 Errors
2. St Lawrence with 24 Errors
2 RPI with 24 errors
5 Uniont with 22 Errors
7 CLarksonw ith 20 Errors
8. Skidmore with 18 Errors

So in a tight it could bee Clarkson or RPI in the liberty league tournament.  Rochester will only win slugfests.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on May 05, 2008, 02:37:27 pm
Heres my take on possible NY regionals

8 Team
1. Cortland
2. Rochester or RPI (LL tourney Champs) Ithaca
3. Ithaca 
4. Rochester or RPI  (C)
5. Out of Region - NE or Mid Atlantic
6. Keystone
7. Out of Region - NE or Mid Atlantic
8. Farmingdale St


6 Team
1. Cortland
2. RPI or Ithaca if RPI wins LL Tourney
3. Ithaca or Rochester if Rochester wins LL tourney
4. RPI if they lose LL tourney
5. Keystone
6. Farmingdale St
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 05, 2008, 03:09:43 pm
Penn State-Behrend out of the Allegany Mountain Collegiate Conference could be an out-of-region team should eight teams advance to Auburn.

The Lions are the top seed in the upcoming AMCC tournament and they're not located too far away from Auburn.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 05, 2008, 07:41:58 pm
1. Cortland (Pool A, SUNYAC)
2. Ithaca (Pool B)
3. RPI (Pool A, Liberty League)
4. St. John Fisher (Pool B)
5. Farmingdale State (Pool A, Skyline)
6. Keystone (Pool A, NEAC)

I guess I was tired last night and didn't realize that RIT swept all four games with St. John Fisher. That I think knocks them out of Pool B contention. Ithaca appears to be struggling as of late as well so that also hurts Fisher. Here's another stab at a bracket:

1. Cortland (Pool A, SUNYAC)
2. Ithaca (Pool B)
3. RPI (Pool A, Liberty)
4. Amherst (Pool C, NESCAC)
5. Keystone (Pool A, NEAC)
6. Farmingdale State (Pool A, Skyline)
-or-
1. Cortland (Pool A, SUNYAC)
2. Ithaca (Pool B)
3. RPI (Pool A, Liberty)
4. Amherst (Pool C, NESCAC)
5. Another out of region team
6. Penn State-Behrend (Pool A, AMCC)
7. Keystone (Pool A, NEAC)
8. Farmingdale State (Pool A, Skyline)
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 05, 2008, 08:26:01 pm
1. Cortland (Pool A, SUNYAC)
2. Ithaca (Pool B)
3. RPI (Pool A, Liberty)
4. Amherst (Pool C, NESCAC)
5. Another out of region team
6. Penn State-Behrend (Pool A, AMCC)
7. Keystone (Pool A, NEAC)
8. Farmingdale State (Pool A, Skyline)

Wow John, are 3 out of region teams a real possibilty if Auburn ends up being a 8 teamer?
Seems like alot of Out of Region teams but no one other than the pool A's and the obvious in NY have really stepped their game up!

If Amherst goes to Auburn it will be nice to see their Head Coach Bill Thurston. He is one of the premier pitching coaches in the country. About 20 years ago, when coach thurston was a tad younger, proably 50 (if thats young for a pitcher)or so, he could still throw 82-83. Amazing!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 05, 2008, 08:48:01 pm
It could be a possibility. I'd like to think not but Rochester, St. John Fisher and Brockport haven't done a lot to distinguish themselves from the national pack. Brockport made the SUNYAC finals but they had to take the long road to get there and then didn't take Cortland to a winner-take-all. Rochester had a chance to but then dropped a pair to Fisher who then lost all four of its games with Rochester Tech.

The national Pool C picture being what it is, Rochester's going to have a hard time getting an at-large if they don't win their tournament. If I had to pick, I'd say RPI will win the Liberty League. Not that UofR isn't a good team, but I'm going with RPI. Can RPI get a Pool C if they don't win? Who knows, but like I've said, it's a possibility.

If someone other than Trinity wins the NESCAC, or there's an upset in New England, we may be looking at an eight-team bracket. I wouldn't mind seeing Amherst either, but we'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Bob Maxwell on May 05, 2008, 08:54:13 pm
I was going to ask you what made SJF so attractive and deserving of a bid... but you saw it yourself.    Agree with you on Rochester if they don't win the Liberty League tournament (as well as any other NY team).  But I still think that a few of the teams from NY would be just as representative as any of the out of state teams.   We will see what happens... I don't understand the "grass is greener" thinking that teams from other regions are better then our own teams.  but everyone is entitled to their opinions.

I think Rochester will win the Liberty...  which would put RPI on that bubble too...
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 05, 2008, 09:10:24 pm
It's not that the team's coming in from out of the region are better than Brockport, Rochester, RPI, etc etc. Well, with Amherst that would be the case since they would come to Auburn as a Pool C selection. It would be that other Pool C teams around the country would gain entry into their regionals pushing some of the lower seeded Pool A teams - like PS-Behrend out of their regional. That could be a strong possibility in the Mid-Atlantic with so many quality teams.

Over the last few years, Westfield and Endicott are prime examples. They were teams that were low seeds in their own region that were shipped into New York because either a stronger Pool C team made the field or said Pool C team was closer to the regional site.

Rochester or RPI could still very well gain that extra spot in my hypothetical eight-team regional.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 05, 2008, 09:39:11 pm
Exactly how many Pool A, B, C bids are out there? Total NCAA bids are 54 this year correct?
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on May 05, 2008, 10:21:56 pm
There are 34 Pool A's, 6 Pool B's, and 14 Pool C's for a total of 54
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 06, 2008, 10:18:47 am
The more I give this some thought, I think NY will almost have to be an 8 team regional.  I think many on this board will  be disappointed but I would not be surprised if we get several teams from out of region.  My projection is this:

In No particular order.

Cortland (SUNYAC A)
Ithaca (Pool B)
Keystone (NEAC A)
Penn-State Behrend (AMCC A)  (They often times their conference winner in NY)
Farmingdale (Skyline A)
Rochester (LL A)
NESCAC Pool C (Williams or Amherst)
Western New England College (Pool A TCCC)

As much as Rochester struggled with SJFC and lost, I still think they're hands down the best team top to bottom.  RPI didn't fare well with Skidmore over the weekend (Having to win 2 games in the 9th inning).  However, I think the LL is a toss up either way.  I do think RPI has a better chance of a Pool C because they have won 30 games and they have the best long term reputation of any NY region team that may not receive a Pool A bid. (Still think there is a better chance of two NE teams)

I picked the two NE teams mostly based on geography.  (EConn could be in there also).  WNEC is in Springfield which is western mass and Williams is as well.  I see Amherst is ranked higher in region than Williams but Williams has a better record and is a higher seed in the NESCAC.  Kinda odd.  I think picking the NE teams is a crapshoot regardless.


Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: pudge27 on May 07, 2008, 12:49:30 pm
Does anyone know when the tournament started having auto bids and what is the criteria for a conference to have one (why not E8, for example)? 

I know that the automatic bids are a good thing for some teams, like a .500 club that gets hot, but would the tournament overall be better without them?  I don't know enough about most of the teams that BB13 listed, so I'm not going to pass any judgements on  them.  My point is and this may be a similar occurrence in other regions, there may be a more deserving team that gets left out because a very weak conference has an auto bid.  Let's say that UR (sorry for the example Boomer) does just so-so in the LL tournament.  They may get left out, but could be a much better team than Keystone or Farmingdale.  Or even better, what if RPI doesn't win the LL and they get left out with 30 wins?  Again, I don't know anything about those downstate or out of region teams, so this is hypothetical.  There's good and bad points to autmatic bids, which weighs heavier?
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on May 07, 2008, 02:28:38 pm
you need to have 7 teams in a conference participating in a particular sport the E8 has only 5

Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on May 07, 2008, 02:45:50 pm
pudge27....

No need to apologize!

"Son playing baseball in college.....Awesome!"

"UR getting a chance at an invite to the NCAA Regionals if they don't win the Liberty League Tournament outright.....Unbelievable!!"

"Winning the Liberty League Tournament as the conference champion and going as a Pool A team.....PRICELESS!!!"
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 07, 2008, 03:21:25 pm
Does anyone know when the tournament started having auto bids and what is the criteria for a conference to have one (why not E8, for example)? 

I know that the automatic bids are a good thing for some teams, like a .500 club that gets hot, but would the tournament overall be better without them?  I don't know enough about most of the teams that BB13 listed, so I'm not going to pass any judgements on  them.  My point is and this may be a similar occurrence in other regions, there may be a more deserving team that gets left out because a very weak conference has an auto bid.  Let's say that UR (sorry for the example Boomer) does just so-so in the LL tournament.  They may get left out, but could be a much better team than Keystone or Farmingdale.  Or even better, what if RPI doesn't win the LL and they get left out with 30 wins?  Again, I don't know anything about those downstate or out of region teams, so this is hypothetical.  There's good and bad points to autmatic bids, which weighs heavier?

You have automatic bids in every sport no matter how many or how few conferences. You're never going to get the best 54 teams. Are good teams left out? Sure, but, they could've made the tournament had they won the games they were supposed to.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 07, 2008, 09:04:46 pm
Exactly John.  That's the beauty of it.  Take March Madness for DI hoops.. That's what makes it so exciting that fact that a mid major team has a chance to win it all.  If it weren't for the conferences in D1 hoops there'd be no point in having half the teams.  Might as well take the best 6 teams from every major conference and put them in the tournament.. But then there wouldn't be a George Mason like a couple yrs ago.

To a lesser extent thats what should happen in D3 baseball.  Certain conferences will have stronger programs and they could be competing for that one spot.  This is exactly why the LL went to 24 games, to put 60% of their teams scheduling emphasis on that all important automatic bid. 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 07, 2008, 09:11:24 pm
Actually wanted to ask a question, maybe someone knows the answer to this.  Ralph maybe?
What are the limits on post season tournament participation? I know a D3 program can play 40 regular season games and then participate in one additional tournament that puts them over the 40 game limit (i.e. Conference tournament or ECACs).  Any games after that would only be allowed in NCAA's after that.  However, if for example a team plays 35 regular season games and 3 conference tournament games, are they then eligible to play in ECAC's because their conference tournament games did not break the 40 game threshold?  Is my understanding correct that if a team played 40 regular season games and 1 or more conference tournament games then they would not be eligible to play in ECAC's?  Hope someone can shed some light.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on May 07, 2008, 11:14:06 pm
you are allowed to play 40 regular season games, not counting a postseason tourney.  The NCAA counts the conference tournament as an exemption and your allowed 1 of these, so a school can technically participate in both a conference tourney and ECAC's as long as they are under the 40 regular season games. If a team is at 37 games played which is the case for Oneonta and Brockport, they must win the ECAC tourney in 3 games otherwise they would be over the 40 game total and therefore would be inelgible to participate in NCAA's.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 07, 2008, 11:57:33 pm
You are allowed to play 40 regular season games, not counting a post-season tourney.  The NCAA counts the conference tournament as an exemption and your allowed 1 of these, so a school can technically participate in both a conference tourney and ECAC's as long as they are under the 40 regular season games. If a team is at 37 games played which is the case for Oneonta and Brockport, they must win the ECAC tourney in 3 games otherwise they would be over the 40 game total and therefore would be ineligible to participate in NCAA's.
That is the way that I understand it.  :)
(Thanks, Johnny)
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 08, 2008, 10:06:21 am
Thanks for the clarification. 

a) So if Brockport and Oneonta had gotten all 40 regular season games played, and then played in their conference tournament, they could not play in ECAC's if they wanted an NCAA bid correct?

b)  Because SJFC and RIT do not play a conference tournament, wish SJFC being at 39 games, if they play say 3 ECAC games, are they are still eligible for NCAA's because they didn't play a conference tournament?
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on May 08, 2008, 10:48:36 am
Both Brockport and Oneonta have 41 and 40 games played to this date. That means both have played 37 regular season games and 1 post season tournament already. If they play to the final of the ECAC and play over 3 games they cannot be in consideration for the NCAA's. They would violate the games played rule because the ECAC would count towards their regular season. SJF and RIT all OK because their league means nothing anyway. I will say it again Ithaca should be made to compete at this tournament if it has any weight for an NCAA bid. If they are not in it, it should be a nice end of the season tournament for the participants.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on May 08, 2008, 10:57:03 am
the fact of the matter is Ithaca doesn't have to compete.....playing in this tournament only allows teams a chance to play some of the regionally ranked teams to help there chance at a bid.  Winning pct vs. regionally ranked opponents is 1 of the primary selection criteria.  Why shouldn't teams have a chance to play all 40 games that their allowed......all ECAC's does is allow these 4 teams to be at the same venue and try and separate themselves from one another

Would you rather see Brockport and Oneonta just schedule a 3 game series weekend, or RIT play Brockport 3 times.

When the region rankings come out this afternoon i Expect Brockport, Oneonta, and RIT to all be regionally ranked and SJF should be lurking on the outside
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 08, 2008, 11:28:17 am
Both Brockport and Oneonta have 41 and 40 games played to this date. That means both have played 37 regular season games and 1 post season tournament already. If they play to the final of the ECAC and play over 3 games they cannot be in consideration for the NCAA's. They would violate the games played rule because the ECAC would count towards their regular season. SJF and RIT all OK because their league means nothing anyway. I will say it again Ithaca should be made to compete at this tournament if it has any weight for an NCAA bid. If they are not in it, it should be a nice end of the season tournament for the participants.

If Ithaca is so bad that they don't deserve to be in the NCAA tournament, why have they been ranked second in the regional rankings the first two weeks?

And to my knowledge, Ithaca usually doesn't play in the ECAC tournament. Ever since I can remember, they've closed out the season with games against Montclair State or various other Mid-Atlantic opponents that were headed to the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 08, 2008, 02:26:36 pm
They're ranked 2nd in the region because a) they are Ithaca and they always get a free pass and b) they have a victory over UR in 10 innings.  c) They took 3 of 4 from SJFC d) I can't really figure out what else they have done in region

They're as good as RPI and UR.  Maybe a little better than SJFC.  I believe they lost to Brockport and Oneonta as well.  Fact of the matter is this year Cortland is great and then UR, RPI, Ithaca, SJFC, Brockport, Oneonta, and RIT are all solid clubs.  It's tough to really pick one out of that group that is hands down better than another as they have all beaten and lost to teams in that group.  However, IC gets their free pass.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: WrongArm on May 08, 2008, 03:09:15 pm
They're ranked 2nd in the region because a) they are Ithaca and they always get a free pass and b) they have a victory over UR in 10 innings.  c) They took 3 of 4 from SJFC d) I can't really figure out what else they have done in region

They're as good as RPI and UR.  Maybe a little better than SJFC.  I believe they lost to Brockport and Oneonta as well.  Fact of the matter is this year Cortland is great and then UR, RPI, Ithaca, SJFC, Brockport, Oneonta, and RIT are all solid clubs.  It's tough to really pick one out of that group that is hands down better than another as they have all beaten and lost to teams in that group.  However, IC gets their free pass.

Against UR, RPI (no game), SJFC, Brockport, Oneonta, and RIT (your list), Ithaca is 9-3. That's not a free pass... that's an earned pass. Maybe you'd like to count Ithaca's extra inning wins as losses.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 08, 2008, 03:47:49 pm
Regional Rankings 5/8

1. Cortland
2. Ithaca
3. Rochester
4. RPI
5. Brockport
6. RIT
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 08, 2008, 03:51:51 pm
Ithaca's free pass comes with their Pool B bid.  Unless those teams (especially RIT and SJFC) blow Ithaca out, Ithaca gets the bid.  Very simple, if Ithaca is so good, they should play in the ECAC and run the table, that would shut everyone up.  Until then, people are going to complain.  If you take the E8 out of the equation then IC is 2 - 2 vs UR, Bport, Oneonta.  Why not have the E8 have a conference tournament even if they don't get a bid, the Landmark Conference does this.  Again that would probably shut people up also if Ithaca won. 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: WrongArm on May 08, 2008, 04:47:23 pm
 If you take the E8 out of the equation then IC is 2 - 2 vs UR, Bport, Oneonta. 

Stop moving the goal posts. Ithaca is 9-3 against a group you proposed. That doesn't support your argument so you change the group. Sure... let's leave out the E8... choose just three opponents to examine the record. The smaller your sample the more meaningless the results become. Maybe you can distill your argument down to that extra inning game with Rochester... the one Ithaca loses because they only won in extra innings.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 08, 2008, 10:02:38 pm
WrongArm if IC is so good then why don't they just play in ECAC's and prove it to get their bid?  It's very simple.  I'm not the only one on this board that thinks they get a free pass.  Fact is IC couldn't handle any of the top SUNYAC teams last year as they lost to each of them (2 of them are in ECAC's).  IC has faired no better or worse than any of those teams listed in the region.  The difference is they all have to fight a lot harder for a bid.  One of these years it will bite IC right where it counts.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: WrongArm on May 09, 2008, 09:18:16 pm
WrongArm if IC is so good then why don't they just play in ECAC's and prove it to get their bid?

I'm sure if you try to answer your own question honestly you can figure this out. And the answer won't have anything to with this board or making people "shut up."

The difference is they all have to fight a lot harder for a bid.  One of these years it will bite IC right where it counts.

Ithaca doesn't play in the Liberty League or the SUNYAC. You should realize that this is the source of your displeasure, but it's not likely to change.

By the way, I'd like to see an E8 playoff too... but with only 5 teams I don't know what you'd propose. It might give Fisher or RIT the additional crack at Ithaca you're asking for. RIT put up 1 run in 28 innings against Ithaca this year. I'm sure the'd love to avenge that ass kicking.

Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 09, 2008, 09:26:29 pm
The honest answer is Ithaca does not need to play in ECAC's because as long as they win 20 games they get a bid based on their past reputation.  It's why they received a bid in 2005 after a sub-par season when there were other Pool B teams with 30+ wins that did not get a bid.  Now that the field is expanded it's much easier to justify Ithaca receiving a bid based on what they've done this year.  I think the E8 should play a conference tournament regardless of it receivinig a bid. 

I don't want Ithaca in the SUNYAC, they're not a state school.  I don't want Ithaca in the Liberty League either, their academic standards do not come close to the rest of the conference. However, if Ithaca was in either of those conferences they would not be in NCAA's nearly as much as they are.  With as many teams that receive bids now, (which I think is too many), It's not that I dont think Ithaca deserves to be in NCAA's at all.  However,  UR, RPI, Oneonta, and Brockport probably all deserve to be in it just as much.  Unfortunately for them they don't get a free pass.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: WrongArm on May 10, 2008, 11:12:04 am
The honest answer is Ithaca does not need to play in ECAC's because as long as they win 20 games they get a bid based on their past reputation.  It's why they received a bid in 2005 after a sub-par season...

Yawn. Are we back to 20 games again? Get some new material. I'm not going to chase you down that rabbit hole again and waste bandwidth on the board. Let's try to get back on topic... to the remarks you made a few posts back.

They're as good as RPI and UR.  Maybe a little better than SJFC. 

Ithaca didn't play RPI but beat Rochester. "... a little better than SJFC?" Look at the E8 standings. Ithaca finished 15-1 and spanked both Fisher (9-7 E8) and RIT (11-5 E8), the ECAC #1 seed. They're not a little better, they're a lot better and they proved it in 4-games series on the field.

I don't want Ithaca in the SUNYAC, they're not a state school. 

Duh! But you're offering to schedule a few more SUNYAC games for Ithaca?

I don't want Ithaca in the Liberty League either, their academic standards do not come close to the rest of the conference.

Another big yawn. I think this is the third time you've trotted this one out. It's still a lame comment, but I note your intention.

... if Ithaca was in either of those conferences they would not be in NCAA's nearly as much as they are. 

Make up your mind... in or out?

I did a quick check of Ithaca's record and it looks like they are 20-4 in the region and as John said above, ranked #2 in the region. Demanding that they play in the ECAC tournament to shut you up, er... "everyone" up, is just ridiculous.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 10, 2008, 03:05:40 pm
ECAC Upstate NY Tournament

http://www.oneonta.edu/academics/athletics/baseball/ECAC/ECAC2008.html

Oswego 5 RIT 4 (11)
Brockport 4 Oneonta 3

Oneonta vs. RIT, Brockport vs. Oswego

The tournament wraps up tomorrow over at Red Dragon Field.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 10, 2008, 06:14:17 pm
As much as I have a general disdain for IC, the thought of their regional ranking being questioned is laughable.
-They played as tough an out of region schedule as anybody in the country, with the exception of 5-10 other teams. (I know that means nothing on paper when it comes to regional bids)
-They played and beat everyone in NY except Cortland, lost 9-5(Cortland is head and shoulders above everyone in the NY region anyway) and they hustle and play baseball hard, the right way!
-IC is deservedly a regional team this yr and until somebody else wins the E8 and/or IC doesn't win 20 in region games, they will continue to play and deserve to play in the NY regional!
-They are 20-4 vs NY region comp and you want to see them sidestepped in Pool B, C for RIT, UofR or SJF????? In region teams they beat or hold winning records against?
I think IC should play in some type of post season tournament but NCAA criterion doesn't require it so you Logic is not computing!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 10, 2008, 10:13:09 pm
Wrongarm you're missing the point, i'm not talking about  only this year, i'm talking about every year.  (See 2005).  With the massive NCAA field this year I am not saying IC does not deserve to be in it at all.  I said Ithaca gets a free pass.  This is where some of you have trouble with reading comprehension.  Last time I checked IC had losses to 60% of the teams in ECAC's.  So it's not unfathomable to think IC could have issues in ECAC's.  Now, unfortunately the system is set up that it allows the Pool B teams to do this.  You cant necessarily blame IC for not participating in ECAC's because clearly they're aware of the fact that they don't need to because of their reputation.  (And by the way, I have always said IC is a very good program so this isn't IC bashing)  I do feel this year that Oneonta, Brockport, UR and RPI are all in the same league as Ithaca.  E8 should just play a conference tournament with the top 4 teams to declare a conference champion.  It would allow all of the teams to get extra games in over their 40 game schedule and it would give the teams tournament experience for when they play in regionals.  And if IC won the tournament every year, no one could say IC received a free pass with their Pool B bid.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: scuba16 on May 10, 2008, 11:29:47 pm
With RIT, Brockport and Oneonta all drop ECAC games, this probably eliminates all from a possible Pool C bid.
RPI will win most likely win the LL, so they will get a Pool A and that leaves U of R as the only other possible Pool C as I see it.
I think U of R's only shot is a 8 team NY regional, if there is only a 6 teamer, U of R is out.
Looks like for sure 6 teamer:
1. Cortland State (A) Sunyac
2. Ithaca (B) E8
3. RPI (A) LL
4. Keystone (A) NEAC
5. Farmingdale (A) Skyline
6. Out of Region


8 Teamer:
1. Cortland State (A) Sunyac
2. Ithaca (B) E8
3. RPI (A) LL
4. Keystone (A) NEAC
5. Farmingdale (A) Skyline
6. Out of Region
7. U of R (C) or Out of Region
8. Out of Region

I am the 1st guy pulling for NY teams but you got to win when it counts if your RIT, Brockport, Oneonta, U of R or SJF. As of right now, none of those teams have "taken the bulls by the horns" and got it done at the end, WHEN IT COUNTS MOST!
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 10, 2008, 11:42:50 pm
Heck of a season by Rochester, though I'm not sure it'll be enough to get into the NCAA tournament as an at-large selection. I like RPI in the title round Sunday. They have the most pitching left and I think SLU will be out of gas. It's not the same Larries that hammered RPI 12-4 in Auburn a few years ago.

That being said,

1. Cortland
2. Ithaca
3. RPI
4. Penn State Behrend
5. Keystone
6. Farmingdale St.

If Penn State Behrend loses to Pitt-Bradford, then the Panthers would take their slot. Keystone may then go to the Mid-Atlantic regional and a stronger team would come to New York like a Montclair State, Rowan or TCNJ. Amherst/Williams had a chance but it's the year of the Clamorin' Clucks in the NESCAC.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 10, 2008, 11:52:32 pm
Wrongarm you're missing the point, i'm not talking about  only this year, i'm talking about every year.  (See 2005).

Seems kind of silly to argue 2005 when we're hours away from having the 2008 field announced.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 11, 2008, 03:53:54 am
Based on D3's budget issues i'd be incredibly surprised if NY was not an 8 team region.  The west is guaranteed to be 6 teams.   It's too convenient for the NCAA to make NY an 8 team region and ship other teams in.  I think this gives UR a chance.  Scuba is right, a lot of NY teams had the opportunity to really take hold solidify a bid and they didn't get it done.  I agree with Scubas 8 team region list as well except that  I think the winner of the Penn State Behrend/Pitt Bradford game will also be in the NY region.  That would leave room for either 2 out of region teams or UR and one out of region team.  Based on cost efficiency it makes sense NY gets 8 teams.   
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on May 11, 2008, 10:55:34 am
scuba16....

Rochester having lost yesterday to St. Lawrence may have solidified Rochesters chances at not getting a Pool C bid, I don't know.  I do know that as of last night in speaking with my son at UR, I will be on campus tomorrow afternoon helping him clean out his dorm room.

Unless some decision is made today by the NCAA, and they are waiting for the outcome of todays Liberty League Championship, I will be at UR tomorrow getting my son.  The die may have been already cast!!
 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 11, 2008, 02:20:06 pm
Scores of note....

RPI 13 St. Lawrence 4, RPI wins the Liberty League
Penn State-Behrend 9 Pitt-Bradford 8, PSU-Behrend wins the AMCC
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on May 11, 2008, 08:22:13 pm
After this weekend I think the regional should look like this.

Cortland
RPI
Ithaca
Keystone
Farmingdale
Rochester

I think that a 33-10 record and 29-9 in region should move RPI up to the #2. I also think that U of R still deserves a pool c bid. From what I've heard they have 3 legit pitchers and can hit the ball.  Brockport is out due to NCAA rules about games limitations. They played in 2 tournaments and went over the 40 regular season games. They would have had to sweep the tourney to even have a chance.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: pudge27 on May 11, 2008, 08:40:22 pm
After this weekend I think the regional should look like this.

Cortland
RPI
Ithaca
Keystone
Farmingdale
Rochester

I think that a 33-10 record and 29-9 in region should move RPI up to the #2. I also think that U of R still deserves a pool c bid. From what I've heard they have 3 legit pitchers and can hit the ball.  Brockport is out due to NCAA rules about games limitations. They played in 2 tournaments and went over the 40 regular season games. They would have had to sweep the tourney to even have a chance.


Interesting thought.  I won't go so far as to get on the IC doesn't belong in the tournament (like some have suggested) because they didn't play in a conference tourney or ECAC, but if the seedings are up in the air for #2, RPI's run through the LL might get them the 2 seed.  I don't know if a lot of people would argue that. 

I've got to switch gears because what I just wrote could be misconstrued as a compliment to RPI.  Shoeless, you've made mention a few times about RPI's defense.  I haven't seen them play this year, but a quick glance of stats (Fld %, Errors DP's and PB)  for them, CSt and IC wouldn't back that up.  Are they that much better defensively than UR?
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: sjfcards on May 19, 2008, 07:17:39 pm
Any ideas on Cortlands chances in the world series? They look really good from what I can tell...
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 20, 2008, 10:09:54 am
Whoever wins Trinity/Cortland has a very good chance.  However, the loser of that game will have a serious uphill battle.
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 20, 2008, 10:18:27 am
Whoever wins Trinity/Cortland has a very good chance.  However, the loser of that game will have a serious uphill battle.

Quote
Game 1 (10:00 am): No. 1 Chapman vs. No. 6 Kean
Game 2 (1:15 pm): Adrian vs. No. 5 John Hopkins
Game 3 (4:30 pm): No 11. UW-Whitwater vs. Linfield
Game 4 (7:45 pm): No. 2 Cortland State vs. No 3. Trinity (Conn.)

Yeah, all the winner has to do is play the winner of the UWW-Linfield game and the winner's winner of the Chapman/Kean-Adrain/JHU bracket, and then the consolation bracket winner.

Should be pretty easy!   ;)   :D
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on May 20, 2008, 01:33:20 pm
I sense some sarcasm.  Don't think I ever said it would be easy.  But I do think Trinity and Cortland are in the top four of the best teams in Wisconsin.  I'm assuming both teams throw their ace in Game 1.  Whichever of those two wins the first game will have a good shot at winning it all.  I think whoever loses has almost no shot. 
Title: Re: BB: 2008 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 21, 2008, 10:46:24 pm
I sense some sarcasm.  Don't think I ever said it would be easy.  But I do think Trinity and Cortland are in the top four of the best teams in Wisconsin.  I'm assuming both teams throw their ace in Game 1.  Whichever of those two wins the first game will have a good shot at winning it all.  I think whoever loses has almost no shot. 
I agree about the losers bracket being tough!
Title: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 25, 2008, 11:43:28 pm
General posts for the 2009 New York season on this board resume here.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on January 01, 2009, 07:16:03 pm
Congratulations are in order for three University of Rochester players.

Blair Veenema - LHP
Dan Brien - 1B
Jay Jay Vanderstyne - 2B

They were selected by the Division III baseball coaches from across the country as "Players To Watch" in 2009 as listed in the January 2 issue of Collegiate Baseball newspaper.  The university is also listed as one of the "other top teams" for 2009.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on January 06, 2009, 11:39:52 pm
Any thoughts on who might contend in the NY Region in 2009? Other than Cortland, Ithaca, and RPI...who else has a chance to join the party this year?
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on January 07, 2009, 01:32:29 am
Any thoughts on who might contend in the NY Region in 2009? Other than Cortland, Ithaca, and RPI...who else has a chance to join the party this year?

Cortland could be in a class itself this year with the graduation losses to Ithaca and RPI. I think Ithaca has less coming back than RPI with the loss of Sottung, Raux, Ferguson, Smith, Wolf etc.

In the Liberty, Rochester showed last year that it could compete with and beat RPI during the regular season (not so much in the playoffs). They'll be a force to contend with if they can consistently win.

Elsewhere, it's the usual suspects. Brockport in the SUNY will be the Cortland's stiffest competitor - meaning they should beat everyone but the Dragons.

RIT and Fisher could challenge Ithaca in the Empire 8 though who knows if either would merit a Pool B selection in the overall picture.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: HotSoupTrio on January 07, 2009, 05:35:35 pm
anyone gonna throw out a challenge for Cortland in this region this year?
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on January 07, 2009, 05:43:05 pm
Any info on who ithaca might have coming in to replace all the lost talent?
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: HotSoupTrio on January 08, 2009, 10:57:11 am
Hopefully Ithaca brought some solid pitching in, which i am sure coach Val did. Losing guys like  Sottung, Wolf and Gardner can be very tough for Ithaca to overcome.  A guy like Tom Fishback is gonna have to be huge for them this year. ANy thoughts on who they might have coming in?
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on January 15, 2009, 03:02:08 pm
Not sure who Ithaca has coming in either, but look for a guy like Pete McDaniel to have a big year.  Fishback will also have to perform at a high level for the bombers to be succesful.  There pitching was pretty thin the last few years.  The quality was above average, just when it came to depth they were lacking.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: spectator123 on January 15, 2009, 03:10:19 pm
anyone gonna throw out a challenge for Cortland in this region this year?

Do Cortland and University of Rochester play each other during the regular season?
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on January 15, 2009, 04:11:51 pm
They usually do play, they havent in the last few years because of weather.  I do believe however they are not scheduled to play this upcoming season for some reason or another.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on January 15, 2009, 11:23:59 pm
Cortland and UR play Tuesday, March 24th at 3:30p.m. at Cortland, weather permitting.  If they don't play that day, then they will try and play the 25th.  If that doesn't work, then the 26th.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: spectator123 on January 16, 2009, 08:31:49 am
Cortland and UR play Tuesday, March 24th at 3:30p.m. at Cortland, weather permitting.  If they don't play that day, then they will try and play the 25th.  If that doesn't work, then the 26th.

U of R not showing on Cortland's schedule so far.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: HotSoupTrio on January 16, 2009, 01:13:44 pm
I know it has been asked before but, anyone got any insight on who Ithaca might have brought in?
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on January 16, 2009, 10:39:29 pm
spectator123.....

It is listed in UR's site.  Go to the Baseball site within Athletics.  Then scroll down to media guide.  Click on, and you will see information about 2008, and the new 2009 schedule.  Hope it helps!
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on January 17, 2009, 12:52:14 am
What he's saying is that the game is not listed on the cortland web site. It may have been recently added and just needs to be uploaded to the schedule by sports information. I wouldn't worry too much about it, still mid-January.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on January 17, 2009, 11:08:43 pm
Duh, do you think!!
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on January 19, 2009, 08:28:01 pm
Isn't it amazing at how simple and easy it is to lose a "KARMA!!!!"  To bad somebody thinks they rule the boards here!!!  Ow-w-w-w sour grapes.  Might as well take them all away since anyone can do what they feel.  If I "smited" everyone with some sort of neagtive or sarcastic post, everyone would be in neagtive numbers.  Poor me.   :'(
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on February 05, 2009, 02:06:50 pm
Baseball season is almost here! Looks like Cortland's region to lose this season with a stacked staff and a ton of athletes. Tone could be one of the best pitchers to come out of NY this year any division. Other teams that might have a shot could Rochester, RIT, RPI, Ithaca and possibly a another SUNYAC, but they have to get through Cortland. 

Any other thoughts from others.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on February 05, 2009, 09:01:15 pm
I'm probably shooting my mouth-off way to prematurely.  But if, Rochester beats Cortland at Cortland, you have to take Rochester seriously as a top New York contender.  I know that depending on who Cortland pitches that Tuesday in March, speculators will say that that is the reason for the win or loss.

I know I'm drinking my "Rochester Kool-Aid" when I say, and its based upon some very good reliable sources, UR has an excellent opportunity to get into the regionals with a much more solid team than last season.  I know the hitting collapsed in the Liberty League tournament, which is hard to figure out why, but based again on sources, should have a team this season that can get to the regionals, and maybe beyond.

I know, I know, bold prediction, but there are some big improvements, and as they say, "time will tell."  They are working hard right now, and I hope they can prove it.  They do deserve a chance to play at the next level.  Unfortunately for them, they don't have a "fairy godmother" like some teams do.  They really will have to earn it!!!!  I think they have the right group, they just have to do it!  IMHO
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on February 05, 2009, 09:43:53 pm
Odds that game gets played on that date is about 20%.  If they make it up later in the year then that's one thing but.. Rarely do games get played that early in the season up here.

Boomer what big improvements does UR have?  Seems they did lose a good amount of guys.  Any big recruits in?  Is their top hitter back again?  Thought this was his fifth year...?
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on February 06, 2009, 07:41:34 pm
BaseB13.....

Your correct.  They will be luck to play that game.  They haven't the last two years.

Vanderstyne is a 5th year starter since he redshirted his sophomore year due to an injury.  We lost our #1 pitcher and #1 closer, but he struggled near the end with back problems.  Our shortstop Kahovec, and one of our starting outfielders, Kloc, is gone along with our catcher D. Shane.  UR picked up some good freshman that will contribute, and could probably start.  Improved their speed, defense, and their bats.  The dugout is deep, and will be pushing the starters with some "big recruits."  Time will tell, especially with the pitching, and I personally think that we have 2 guys that could take over the #1 spot without missing much, not taking anything away from what Pete did for UR last season.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: BaseB13 on February 07, 2009, 12:51:25 am
Who will be the #1 arm this year?  Should be another interesting LL Season... I didn't know Division III still did medical red shirts?  Anyone know what the rules are for medical redshirts these days?
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on February 07, 2009, 08:41:02 am
BaseB13.....

To be honest with you, I don't know now if it was a medical redshirt???  All I heard was that he had some sort of injury.  Now whether he just didn't play that year, without any "redshirt" indication, I really don't know.  I will try and find out.

Veenema will most likely be the #1 with Park probably #2.  Both are seniors, so we will lose a couple of good arms at the end of the season.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: spectator123 on February 07, 2009, 08:43:06 am
Who will be the #1 arm this year?  Should be another interesting LL Season... I didn't know Division III still did medical red shirts?  Anyone know what the rules are for medical redshirts these days?

I don't know if this has changed or not...
7. Is redshirting legal in Division III?
Posted On
Feb 12, 2007 at 03:46 AM  You are not permitted to redshirt in Division III. Redshirting is the practice of having a player attend and participate in practices but not play in any games, preserving a year of eligibility. Medical redshirting is still permitted at the Division III level. The general guideline is that you must have played one-third of the scheduled games or less in order to be eligible. If you suffer a season-ending injury in that time-frame and can document it, your conference (or athletic director, if an independent) can file paperwork with the NCAA on your behalf to restore a season of eligibility. So-called "routine" redshirting is still permitted at other levels and to our understanding those redshirts are recognized by Division III. (You will want to confirm with your school's compliance officer if you are transferring in.) That is, if you redshirted outside of Division III and then transferred to a D-III school, you would not be forced to give up that year of eligibility. (To redshirt in this manner you may not appear in any games whatsoever.) Conferences are free to not recognize these redshirts, and in fact, the MIAC has not as long as we've been covering D-III. And of course, anyone who had a routine redshirt year at a Division III school before Aug. 1, 2004, has that redshirt grandfathered in.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on March 23, 2009, 05:47:26 pm
Well it looks like 2009 in NY could be a good one. Cortland, Ithaca and RPI all look like they're gonna make their usual runs at the NCAA's and Rochester, Oneonta, Farmingdale, St John Fisher are also looking good. Hopefully this year the NCAA will give NY it's due and make the NY regional a mostly NY region. The state has some good teams and some great ballplayers who deserve the right to battle it out on a common field with no advantages. I think it would fun to watch and we could get some great games. There is no reason the region should not get 6 of the 8 slots for this upcoming year unless everyone falls apart.

Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on March 23, 2009, 05:55:32 pm
AlleyCat.....

I totally agree with your thoughts.  Considering that these teams have to get prepared indoors, and then not be able to maybe play all of their games due to weather, speaks volumes about the players and coaches.  Talk about dedicated.  This is also true for any of the teams in the central and northeast portion of the country.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on April 07, 2009, 03:06:46 pm
The new ABCA poll is out and its great to see NY teams getting some love. 4 teams ranked in the top 25 is great for the region. Like I've stated before, I think NY region is strong this year and hopefully the NCAA committee will see this and give the NY region at least 6 teams in the 8 team region.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 07, 2009, 04:47:10 pm
The new ABCA poll is out and its great to see NY teams getting some love. 4 teams ranked in the top 25 is great for the region. Like I've stated before, I think NY region is strong this year and hopefully the NCAA committee will see this and give the NY region at least 6 teams in the 8 team region.

I completely disagree. There's more parity in the region this year but that's because as a whole IMO the region is down. When your regional heavyweights are losing games to teams that aren't supposed to make noise nationally, it doesn't help anyone.

Chances are, we'll see Ithaca, RPI, Cortland, Rochester and Farmingdale State in the regionals. The only possible way for an extra team would be if Keuka or Cazenovia wins the NEAC. Rochester's had a solid season so far and looks to be on track for an at-large unless they completely collapse in the second half of the season. Of the teams I didn't mention, I see Oneonta at this point as the only other team with an outside chance at that list.

Upsets in league tournaments would also expand the number of New York teams in the tournament as long as Cortland, UR, RPI remain strong until May. However, just because of the shear numbers of some other regions (NE, Mid-Atlantic), it won't be an All-New York region. There's just too much talent in New England to have one of their teams not shipped here, same with the upper tier of the Mid-Atlantic and possibly the Mideast. Penn State-Behrend or Keystone may also likely be shipped over to Farmingdale; which also will make it a short trip for Mid-Atlantic teams shipped away from the Lakewood, NJ regional.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on April 08, 2009, 07:04:20 am
I wasn't suggesting an all NY regional. I think what they did last year was wrong with only 4 of the 8 in the regional. I think 6 of 8 would be reasonable. Sorry for any misunderstanding. Just because Cortland is losing some games now doesn't mean the region is down. Cortland is Cortland and they are alittle young at spots and will get better in the end.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on April 13, 2009, 07:44:51 pm
Here's how i see the New York Regional Rankings as 4/13:

1.) Ithaca 18-5 overall, 13-2 NY Region (Empire 8 Pool B)
2.) RPI 21-5 overall, 18-4 NY Region (Liberty League Pool A)
3.) Plattsburgh 17-7 overall, 10-4 NY Region (SUNYAC Pool A)
4.) Rochester 19-6 overall, 19-6 NY Region (Pool C)
5.) Cortland 17-9 overall, 12-5 NY Region
6.) Fredonia 15-5 overall, 8-4 NY Region
7.) Oneonta 19-6 overall, 9-6 NY Region
8.) St John Fisher 14-7 overall, 12-5 NY Region
9.) Brockport 11-15 overall, 9-6 NY Region
10.) Mt St Mary's 19-4 overall, 14-4 NY Region (Skyline Pool A)

NEAC: Pennstate Berks leads the conference (NEAC Pool A)

On the outside: Farmingdale, Clarkson, Old Westbury

Key regional games for the week of 4/13:
Ithaca (Cortland, St John Fisher 4 gms)
Rochester (at Clarkson 4 gms)
Plattsburgh (at Brockport dh, at Fredonia dh)
Cortland (at St John Fisher, at Ithaca, Oneonta dh)
Fredonia (Plattsburgh dh)
Oneonta (St John Fisher, at Cortland dh)
St John Fisher (Cortland, at Oneonta, at Ithaca 4gms)
Brockport (Plattsburgh dh)

Should be an exciting week anyone have any thoughts?
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on April 15, 2009, 10:56:22 am
My take on the regional rankings for NY

1. RPI 21-6
2. Ithaca 18-5
3. Rochester 20-8
4. Cortland 18-9
5. Oneonta 20-6
6. Plattsburgh 17-7
7. Mt St Mary 19-4
8. Fredonia 17-5
9. St John Fisher 14-8

I do not think you can rank a team under .500
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: Ruby Red Dawg on April 15, 2009, 11:14:47 am
isn't the region ranking based on your record within the region? I might be wrong but i was jw
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 15, 2009, 11:17:25 am
isn't the region ranking based on your record within the region? I might be wrong but i was jw

Pretty much. And we're about a week out from the first rankings of the year.

Here are some unofficial regional records, listed by winning %

Ithaca          12-2 (.857)
RPI              19-5 (.792) or 20-5, Salve is too close to guess
Plattsburgh   12-4 (.750)
Mt. St. Mary  15-5 (.750)
cortland        13-5 (.722)
Rochester     17-8 (.680) or 13-6 (.684) - depends on if UAA games in Florida count
Farmingdale  16-8 (.667)
Fisher           12-6 (.667)
Fredonia         9-5 (.643)
Oneonta         9-6 (.600)

Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: Cardinal Sin on April 15, 2009, 11:58:09 am
How, if at all is the moving of the Regional down to LI gooing to affect the amount of NY teams that may get in. I would have to think that hleps teams from the New England area as well as open up spots for teams from the New Jersey Conference of Athletics.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 15, 2009, 12:06:31 pm
I don't think it'll have too much effect. It will certainly help lessen the travel for the New England and Mid-Atlantic teams shipped in.

You're still looking at 4-5 New York teams based on the overall strength of the region. There's automatic bids from the SUNYAC, Liberty League and Skyline. Plus Ithaca more than likely as a Pool B from the Empire 8 and maybe Cazenovia from the NEAC (if they win it). And the Liberty may get two depending on how Rochester-RPI plays out.

Penn State Behrend could also be thrown in the mix but I'd think they're a safer bet for the Lakewood, N.J. regional. Also Keystone may be an option though they play in the Mid-Atlantic region so who knows.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on April 16, 2009, 05:00:35 pm
I would have to agree the NY region still will have at least 4-5 teams from NY in it.  Its probably safe to say NY will get at least one one POOL C bid but thats probably it.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 19, 2009, 10:35:40 pm
UPDATED
Here are some unofficial regional records, listed by winning %

Ithaca          16-3 (.842)
RPI              22-7 (.759) or 23-7, Salve is too close to guess *LL Leader
Cortland        17-6 (.739) *SUNYAC Leader
Old Westbury 17-7 (.708)
St. Joe's (LI) 15-7 (682)
Mt. St. Mary  17-8 (.680)
Rochester     21-10 (.677) or 17-8 (.680) - depends on if UAA games in Florida count
Plattsburgh   13-7 (.650)
Fredonia       11-6 (.647)
Farmingdale  18-10 (.643) *Skyline Leader
Fisher           13-10 (.565)
Oneonta       11-10 (.524)
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 22, 2009, 09:35:58 am
Well, tomorrow's the big day for the first regional rankings. I don't think we'll have any surprises. Here's my guess.

1. Ithaca
2. RPI
3. cortland
4. Old Westbury
5. Rochester
6. St. Joseph's (L.I.)

I think overall that Rochester is better head-to-head than Old Westbury but the Panthers have a better regional record right now.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 23, 2009, 03:13:43 pm
Well, tomorrow's the big day for the first regional rankings. I don't think we'll have any surprises. Here's my guess.

1. Ithaca
2. RPI
3. cortland
4. Old Westbury
5. Rochester
6. St. Joseph's (L.I.)

I think overall that Rochester is better head-to-head than Old Westbury but the Panthers have a better regional record right now.

Well, I hit on five of six teams but my order wasn't exactly perfect.

1. RPI
2. cortland
3. Ithaca
4. Old Westbury
5. Fredonia State
6. Rochester

IMO that's a tough cookie for the Yellow Jackets. Though, after the top three, Westbury, Fredonia and Rochester go in order of winning percentage. At least it looks like now that Rochester has its' work cut out if it wants to leap Fredonia and make the tournament as a possible at-large.

I'm not surprised cortland's ahead of Ithaca. The Red Dragons, despite a lower regional winning percentage, have played a much tougher schedule. Keystone being number two in the Mid-Atlantic doesn't hurt them.

Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: Smithers on April 24, 2009, 01:29:13 pm
looks like Ithaca may have been shafted with these rankings...still won't matter they are going to get their bid anyway
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 24, 2009, 04:30:48 pm
Well, tomorrow's the big day for the first regional rankings. I don't think we'll have any surprises. Here's my guess.

1. Ithaca
2. RPI
3. cortland
4. Old Westbury
5. Rochester
6. St. Joseph's (L.I.)

I think overall that Rochester is better head-to-head than Old Westbury but the Panthers have a better regional record right now.

Well, I hit on five of six teams but my order wasn't exactly perfect.

1. RPI
2. cortland
3. Ithaca
4. Old Westbury
5. Fredonia State
6. Rochester

IMO that's a tough cookie for the Yellow Jackets. Though, after the top three, Westbury, Fredonia and Rochester go in order of winning percentage. At least it looks like now that Rochester has its' work cut out if it wants to leap Fredonia and make the tournament as a possible at-large.

I'm not surprised cortland's ahead of Ithaca. The Red Dragons, despite a lower regional winning percentage, have played a much tougher schedule. Keystone being number two in the Mid-Atlantic doesn't hurt them.
Thanks, John!

Keystone is an in-region game for teams in New York and Pennsylvania!
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 24, 2009, 11:33:46 pm
looks like Ithaca may have been shafted with these rankings...still won't matter they are going to get their bid anyway

Eh, I don't think so. I think RPI and cortland have played tougher schedules. Ithaca's regional record is better, though the Bombers had a tough time today against a poor Oswego State team.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on April 25, 2009, 04:04:20 pm
John,
I think you hit it right on again. Cortland and RPI appear to have played a much better schedule and based on the ranking, everyone else thinks so too.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on April 25, 2009, 04:44:04 pm
John.....

This is just a question based upon "Smithers" comment......."though the Bombers had a tough time today against a poor Oswego State team".....were you by chance at the Ithaca vs. Rochester game Thursday?  If not, its o.k.  I just wanted to see if the win against Rochester was just as tough, not counting the pitching misques. 

I know that Rochester has had their share of many good games, coming from behind to win games maybe they shouldn't have, but also being ahead in games against some very good teams only to lose.  At this point in the season I'm just trying to see if the team is as good as I thought it was.  The frustraion factor is high from the parents, but much higher from the players and Coach.

I've read your posts/comments for a few years, and you have a handle on the New York Region as well as the East Coast teams, whats your opinion of the UR team this year?
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 28, 2009, 12:56:24 am
John.....

This is just a question based upon "Smithers" comment......."though the Bombers had a tough time today against a poor Oswego State team".....were you by chance at the Ithaca vs. Rochester game Thursday?  If not, its o.k.  I just wanted to see if the win against Rochester was just as tough, not counting the pitching misques. 

I know that Rochester has had their share of many good games, coming from behind to win games maybe they shouldn't have, but also being ahead in games against some very good teams only to lose.  At this point in the season I'm just trying to see if the team is as good as I thought it was.  The frustraion factor is high from the parents, but much higher from the players and Coach.

I've read your posts/comments for a few years, and you have a handle on the New York Region as well as the East Coast teams, whats your opinion of the UR team this year?

I had a response typed out to this the other day but I lost it when my Firefox crashed. Good times.

Anyways, I haven't seen Ithaca since the beginning of the month against Stevens and nor have I seen Rochester since then. As a third regionally-ranked team, Ithaca should handle Oswego State with ease. That's not to say that they should blow them out, but the Bombers shouldn't need an eighth inning rally to defeat a team with Oswego's record. That being said, it's baseball and baseball is a funny game.

As for Rochester, I'm not sure. I think the biggest problem is consistency. When UR's on, they're a good team that's hitting the ball throughout the line-up and is getting quality relief pitching. Against Ithaca, obviously there was no quality relief pitching and that's why the Bombers ended up coming back. In previous wins, like the cortland win, the bullpen was great. In losses to Brockport and RPI, the bullpen, along the defense, has not been able to seal the deal. And unfortunately, that's part of baseball.

Do I think UR is a good team? Yeah, I think so. They've had a very good season though again this year, the Jackets have not been able to get over the RPI hump. However, if UR had turned some of its' losses into wins, the losses to RPI wouldn't matter as much because a Pool c bid would be in sight. Now, especially with the national Pool c craziness, I'd say UR needs to win the conference tournament.

And that's one of the problems in a Pool A conference. It's not a bad problem, though a problem for UR because it can't seem to get past RPI - whether it be this regular season or last year's tournament in Rochester. I'll use an analogy to football. cortland had some real good football teams in the early part of the decade. But, they were in a conference with national powerhouse Rowan. In a weaker conference, cortland more than likely rolls and goes to the national playoffs But, the Dragons couldn't beat Rowan and the season would almost become about what happens against Rowan and if you don't win then the season is lost (aside from the Ithaca game). In this season, Rochester's having the problem of being in the RPI shadow.

Sorry for the longwindedness.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: BoomerIL on April 28, 2009, 02:50:45 pm
John.....

Thanks for the good feedback!  Your analysis is pretty much what I figured as well, but not being objective because of my tie to Rochester, I wanted an unbiased opinion.  Thanks.

+1
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on April 28, 2009, 02:54:41 pm
I still think Rochester is an NCAA team! If they can beat St John Fsher they'll have a 29-11 record heading into the LL playoffs. I think the last 2 years the LL tourney has hurt its best 2 teams. 2007 RPI was 29-10 and didn't get a bid and last year Rochester was definitely a tourney team at 28-13. If they don't have a tourney the LL probably gets 2 bids the last 2 years. With the tourney they only get one. This year as long as Rochester and RPI play for the title they both should get in! Both of those teams has played a tough non conference schedule.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 28, 2009, 03:14:10 pm
I still think Rochester is an NCAA team! If they can beat St John Fsher they'll have a 29-11 record heading into the LL playoffs. I think the last 2 years the LL tourney has hurt its best 2 teams. 2007 RPI was 29-10 and didn't get a bid and last year Rochester was definitely a tourney team at 28-13. If they don't have a tourney the LL probably gets 2 bids the last 2 years. With the tourney they only get one. This year as long as Rochester and RPI play for the title they both should get in! Both of those teams has played a tough non conference schedule.

I disagree. Rochester needs to win the tournament title to get in. There's far too many Pool c teams nationally with better resumes. Nothing against Rochester but as I've said, it's not a good year to be a Pool c team as teams like Millsaps and Wheaton (Mass.) go down in their conference tournaments.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on April 28, 2009, 05:37:21 pm
Just wondering, what makes Wheaton so special if they can't even win 2 games in their conference tourney? Is their out of conference schedule that tough?
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 28, 2009, 07:03:48 pm
Just wondering, what makes Wheaton so special if they can't even win 2 games in their conference tourney? Is their out of conference schedule that tough?

If Rochester losses two games in the Liberty League tournament even if they go to the title game, what gets them in?
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on April 29, 2009, 08:41:12 am
I'm not sure if Rochester will get in. I was just asking why everyone is so high on Wheaton? I guess I'm questioning how good they are if they go 1-2 ski doo in their tourney. Maybe they just had a bad couple of days.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on April 29, 2009, 11:35:18 am
I'm not sure if Rochester will get in. I was just asking why everyone is so high on Wheaton? I guess I'm questioning how good they are if they go 1-2 ski doo in their tourney. Maybe they just had a bad couple of days.

Eh, you could ask the same about Millsaps. As for Wheat-thin, the Lyons had several strong wins to start the season over New Jersey, Johns Hopkins and William Paterson and then steamrolled  through their conference for the most part though there was a bit of a swoon in April after such a great start.

Traditionally, Wheaton's had very strong teams that have gone on to the New England regional and advanced to Wisconsin. I don't see this year as being any different. I see them more than likely getting into the playoffs and could be one of several New England teams sent to Farmingdale.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on April 29, 2009, 11:42:40 am
Thanks John.

Have they had any real good wins lately? Early wins are good but they might be better prepared early in the season in Arizona. I know they have been good in the past, but does that translate to this years team?

They have some games coming up that could help their cause if they win.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 04, 2009, 10:45:16 am
Here's the regional rankings from this past Thursday.

1. Cortland State
2. RPI
3. Ithaca
4. Fredonia
5. Old Westbury
6. Rochester

There were no new teams added though several spots changed hands. Cortland took over the top spot from RPI who dropped down to second in the region. Fredonia and Old Westbury also swapped spots with Fredonia inching up to fourth and Westbury falling to fifth.

This week will be interesting to see if Rochester jumps over Fredonia because of the Blue Devils' 0-fer performance in their conference tournament. If Rochester does not jump them or Old Westbury (also knocked off in their tournament), then I'd say we'll just be seeing four teams from NY in the regional playoffs unless RPI is upset.

Farmingdale State or St. Joseph's (L.I.) will more than likely debut in the rankings as well this coming Thursday depending on who wins their Skyline title round. Farmingdale needs just one win to advance and have a nice home-field advantage in the regionals.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on May 07, 2009, 11:10:13 am
Cortland (30-12) SUNYAC and Farmingdale (25-13) Skyline are in. I think RPI will get a bid whether the win the LL or not. 31-9 and 29-8 in region will compare nationally with their out of conference schedule being tough. Ithaca (28-7) is almost assurred of a Pool B. Rochester also looks good at 30-11 and 25-11 in region.  Any others I'm overlooking.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 07, 2009, 12:03:47 pm
Cortland (30-12) SUNYAC and Farmingdale (25-13) Skyline are in. I think RPI will get a bid whether the win the LL or not. 31-9 and 29-8 in region will compare nationally with their out of conference schedule being tough. Ithaca (28-7) is almost assurred of a Pool B. Rochester also looks good at 30-11 and 25-11 in region.  Any others I'm overlooking.

Rochester won't look that good nationally if they pick up two losses in the Liberty League tournament this weekend.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: Big Louie on May 07, 2009, 12:08:06 pm
I have to agree with John on that one. Rochester needs to win the liberty league tourney to get in. If they lose two more this weekend they would have 13 region loses. The number of region losses for pool C teams should be around the 10 range at the very most. Rochester needs to win the liberty league.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: KSCfan on May 07, 2009, 12:12:46 pm
Hey guys i wandered over here from the New England board with a couple of questions for people "in the know" about NY teams.  Obviously i know about Cortland because they are a national power.  If i was a team coming over from the NE region (there are always one or two that get shipped from NE to NY) who else should i pay attention too?  Also what are the chances of a top NE team like Eastern CT, Trinity (hartford CT) or a Southern Maine getting sent to NY region and taking that 1 seed from Cortland.  Thanks in advance for any info
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 07, 2009, 03:25:58 pm
Hey guys i wandered over here from the New England board with a couple of questions for people "in the know" about NY teams.  Obviously i know about Cortland because they are a national power.  If i was a team coming over from the NE region (there are always one or two that get shipped from NE to NY) who else should i pay attention too?  Also what are the chances of a top NE team like Eastern CT, Trinity (hartford CT) or a Southern Maine getting sent to NY region and taking that 1 seed from Cortland.  Thanks in advance for any info

Cortland right now I would say is the top dog. Ranked number one at the start of the year, the team had a great Florida trip but then stumbled back in the northeast. Much to the team's credit, it won when push came to shove and they swept through the conference tournament.

Ithaca is a likely Pool B selection. The Bombers aren't overly talented and don't have one really great player but a combination of pretty good players and solid frontline pitching. They can hit the ball and have found a knack for winning games out of nowhere and capitalizing on the miscues of others. They'll have trouble if anyone can find a way to get into their bullpen on day one or two.

RPI is the favorite from the Liberty League. The Engineers have had a solid year all around and have played a decent schedule (for them) that's included possible Pool C Montclair State and NJAC finalist William Paterson. They've been to regionals before and are coming off a regional final appearance last year. While they may not have all the power names of the past, this group has been there before and knows what it takes to win in the regionals.

Farmingdale State will be a darkhorse simply because of the fact that they're hosting the tournament. Any team is tough to beat on its' home field. The Rams nearly beat RPI on day one last year and then played Ithaca extremely tough on day two.

In the past, we've had a variety of New England teams shipped in - most recently we have seen Eastern Connecticut (twice), Trinity (Conn.) (twice), Endicott and Westfield State. I wouldn't be surprised to see Trinity again or some New England Pool C's depending on how conference tournaments play out. I don't think Southern Maine would be shipped to Long Island though at around 330 miles, it's a possibility. Overall, the New England squads (Westfield State excluded) have done very well against the upstaters and should provide another formidable opposition this year.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: KSCfan on May 07, 2009, 06:15:33 pm
John- thanks for the info on NY, greatly appreciate it +1k
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: AlleyCat on May 08, 2009, 08:47:45 am
I think everything Jhon said was great but, NY has had great success against NE teams this year especially the teams that should be in the NY Region from NY.

Cortland 2-0 - beat Salve and Rhode Island College
RPI 6-0 - Beat Wentworth, Salve, Castleton, WNEC, MCLA and Williams
Ithaca - 0-0
Rochester 2-0 - beat Brandeis twice
Farmingdale 3-1 - beat Clark twice, Sothern Maine and lost to Eastern Conn

Also remember that RPI knocked ECONN out in the NY regional semi last year.

Just some more info.
Title: Re: BB: 2009 season in NY Region
Post by: John McGraw on May 08, 2009, 11:43:31 am
I think everything Jhon said was great but, NY has had great success against NE teams this year especially the teams that should be in the NY Region from NY.

Cortland 2-0 - beat Salve and Rhode Island College
RPI 6-0 - Beat Wentworth, Salve, Castleton, WNEC, MCLA and Williams
Ithaca - 0-0
Rochester 2-0 - beat Brandeis twice
Farmingdale 3-1 - beat Clark twice, Sothern Maine and lost to Eastern Conn

Also remember that RPI knocked ECONN out in the NY regional semi last year.

Just some more info.

Chances are, we'll be seeing someone along the lines of an very good talent level - not like most of the teams on that list. The only decent teams above are USM, ECSU, Western New England (Pool A qualifier) and possibly Williams.

Depending on the six or eight set-up, we could get one or two New England teams. And the same could be said for the Mid-Atlantic with possibly, Montclair State, TCNJ or William Paterson coming to Farmingdale. I'd throw Kean in that mix, but they're hosting in Lakewood, N.J., so they'll be shipped there.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: BoomerIL on January 02, 2010, 04:38:13 pm
We received a schedule for our Florida trip coming up in March.  Two teams Rochester is scheduled to play are Neumann from Ashton, PA, and New Jersey City College from Jersey City.  Neumann's record the last two to three years has been a losing one, and Jersey City having a winning record plays against Kean, Montclair, to name a few.  Does anyone have any feedback regarding these two programs?

Thanks.

Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on January 05, 2010, 12:01:48 pm
We received a schedule for our Florida trip coming up in March.  Two teams Rochester is scheduled to play are Neumann from Ashton, PA, and New Jersey City College from Jersey City.  Neumann's record the last two to three years has been a losing one, and Jersey City having a winning record plays against Kean, Montclair, to name a few.  Does anyone have any feedback regarding these two programs?

Thanks.



New Jersey City plays out of the extremely tough NJAC and it has struggled against some of the bigger powers like you mentioned in Kean, TCNJ, Montclair etc. The Gothic Knights have had some good individually talented players over the last few years but just haven't been able to translate that into lots of wins. Their SID, Ira Thor, is great at what he does and there's a lot of information available about the team and some of its' history at the school's athletics web site. Really, it's a game that Rochester should win though with a pitcher lower in the rotation on the mound, it could turn into the slugfest since NJCU teams have been known to swing the stick well.

Neumann is very good at men's ice hockey, baseball, well not so much. The team plays in the CSAC which is pretty much dominated by emerging regional powerhouse Keystone College. Neumann tangled with Keystone in the title game last year and was smoked 12-1 after losing to the Giants 21-7 a little earlier in the season. Neumann has a good number of players back but lost some key seniors and should be again a middling to upper level team in the CSAC which doesn't compare favorably to the Liberty League IMO.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: BoomerIL on January 07, 2010, 03:15:16 pm
John.....

Thank you for the information.  I figured that New Jersey and Rochester would be a good match-up since New Jersey does play in that tough conference.  Neumann should be an easier match-up, but you know what they say....any team....!

Unfortunately for UR, playing in the UAA tournament does not allow them to play two or three games against better teams down in Florida prior to the UAA.  I mean why would the Russ Matt people mess up their game scheduling for a team that will only play a few games in their venue.

The challenge still remains for Rochester to win those few games that they should easily win during their regular season, or win the Liberty League outright in order to move on to regionals.  I think until they can improve on that, they may not get that "second consideration" for getting a bid if they don't win their conference tournament.  Their 30-13 record was their best in the schools history, and they have gotten better the last several years.  We'll see what happens in Florida.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: AlleyCat on February 10, 2010, 02:47:47 pm
Whats the general thoughts on NY baseball this year?

SUNYAC
Cortland
Oneonta
Brockport
Fredonia
Oswego
New Paltz

LL
RPI
Rochester
Skidmore
Clarkson
St Lawrence

Skyline
Farmingdale
Old Westbury
St Joes LI

E8
St John Fisher
Ithaca
RIT
Stevens


Clarkson showed last year that the LL is a lot stronger than people thought. They pushed RPI to the limit and took down Cortland in the Regional. Cortland should be great this year and looks to get back to the Series. RPI returns almost everyone from a talented team from last year and has made it to the regional finals the last 2 years. Rochester looks to reload after losing some great pitching. U of R needs to show up in the LL tourney to move on. Farmingdale lost some key players but should be tough again and looks to repeat.  Ithaca has had a bye to the regionals for many years but it could get tougher for them now that there is only 4 Pool B bids(?). St John Fisher and RIT could give them a run for their money, but need to play better in the non-league portion of their schedules.

NY Regional Predictions
1. Cortland
2. RPI
3. Farmingdale
4. Oneonta
5. Skidmore or Rochester
6. St John Fisher
7. Ithaca
8. Brockport

Just my thoughts.....
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: WrongArm on February 11, 2010, 01:48:30 pm
Last year the E8 coaches narrowly picked RIT to finish ahead of Ithaca, based, I assume, on the loss of so many key players. Didn't happen. There just isn't enough strength in the 5-team league to pull Ithaca back to the pack. Stevens and Utica manage to give Ithaca a scare or two in a 4-game weekend, but until they can put a few losses on Ithaca, Fisher and RIT will need to do better than split with Ithaca. RIT and Fisher need to take care of business with the rest of their league schedule too. Last year Fisher split with Stevens and RIT split with Utica. Ithaca swept both.

Isn't RIT leaving the league after next this year? If the E8 has only 4 baseball teams, maybe it will be time to cut them loose to become associate members of other conferences, if they can find any takers. I guess this wouldn't matter for Ithaca since, as someone already mentioned on the board recently, Ithaca's bid is an NCAA rule :-)
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on February 11, 2010, 02:02:45 pm
Yeah, there certainly will be a bit of an issue with the league in terms of baseball once RIT leaves to join the Liberty League and you end up with Ithaca, St. John Fisher, Stevens and Utica in a four-team loop. The Empire 8 on a whole is still fairly set because the non-baseball schools (Alfred, Elmira, Hartwick, Nazareth) compete in almost every other sport.

In football, the league will be getting associate members from other leagues in the coming years - Salisbury, Frostburg and Buffalo State so the football automatic qualifier will remain intact. That said, there are more football playing schools than baseball. I think field hockey is the only other sport where the league has an associate member and that is Washington and Jefferson, normally a member of the Presidents Athletic Conference.

What will the answer be? I don't know. Given the sparse number of Pool B bids, it wouldn't shock me to see the league try to grab some affiliate members. Who that would be I really don't know.

As for Ithaca, I think the Bombers will have their hands full with St. John Fisher this year. That said, Wrong Arm is correct in that Fisher still needs to take care of business against RIT, Stevens and Utica because if you beat Ithaca but can't put the other teams away, you won't win it all. But, Fisher has the offense to do some legitimate damage while I think Ithaca's offense will have a problem scoring runs at least at the start of the season but the Bombers pitching should be the best in the league.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: AlleyCat on February 11, 2010, 03:21:26 pm
Ithaca will always be the team to beat in the E8 until they decide to get into a baseball conference. That may be closer than we think with the Pool B bids going down each year. This may make it tougher for the Bombers to have a bye into the regionals. St John Fisher has been getting better each year and it looks like they will hit the ball pretty well this year.  Coach Val will always have his team ready to compete and they always know how to pitch. At what point does the E8 not exist(in baseball) after RIT leaves for the LL.  I think this may be the year that someone else comes out of the E8, but I would not stake my life on it. Who knows, maybe no one from the E8 goes.  I think both the SUNYAC and the LL could produce 2 teams each this year.

Just my thoughts.....
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: BaseB13 on February 11, 2010, 11:43:43 pm
While Ithaca is still the team to beat I think SJFC has a very talented squad, especially on the offensive side.  Some solid new players have come in this year.  Not sure how deep their arms are but I think they should have a solid year.  IC will be good as usual also.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: AlleyCat on March 22, 2010, 03:16:33 pm
Its time to start talking about NY baseball. Looks like we have some teams that are playing well right now. Although some have played a pretty weak schedule, you still have to win the games on the field.

Oneonta 11-0
Plattsburgh 13-1
RPI 8-2
Cortland 9-5
New Paltz 7-1
Skidmore 7-3
Rochester 6-2
St Jhon Fisher 7-4
St Lawrence 6-2

From the looks of it Cortland and RPI have played the toughest schedules coming out of it pretty well. Oneonta needs to start playing of the big dogs especially when you have Filak throwing in the 90's. Plattsburgh is off to a nice start while playing a pretty weak schedule. Skidmore pushed #2 Wooster to extras before falling 3-1. 
This could be a very interesting year.


Just my thoughts.....
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Hot Rod Runnin on April 12, 2010, 09:49:49 pm
Doesanyone know when the initial Regional Rankings are going to be announced?
Any predictions to what they might look like?

Rod
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 12, 2010, 09:57:58 pm
Doesanyone know when the initial Regional Rankings are going to be announced?
Any predictions to what they might look like?

Rod
April 29th.   :)
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Hobbesy on April 28, 2010, 11:41:58 am
Hello from New England,

Just trying to figure out possible scenarios for Pool C bids possibly being shipped out of New England or out of New York.

I dont think New York will send a team to New England but it is highly likely that a N.E. team will be headed to Auburn in May.

As for at-large bids,  who do you guys think have a good shot at one? 

If Rochester does not win LL then they probably will get one but does Plattsburgh and Oneonta have a chance at obtaining a Pool C?

And do you think St. John Fisher has done enough to earn a Pool B bid out of the E8?

Thanks!
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DefenseWins on April 28, 2010, 01:16:04 pm
no way plattsburgh or oneaonta gets an at large, they played a cake schedule. I would say depending on the LL champion the only teams worthy of an at large are either UR or Skidmore or Fisher
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: wordsmith on April 28, 2010, 02:34:50 pm
no way plattsburgh or oneaonta gets an at large, they played a cake schedule. I would say depending on the LL champion the only teams worthy of an at large are either UR or Skidmore or Fisher

DefenseWins,

I did a quick study on SOS for the top NY teams....I believe you may have under estimated how easy the schedules of Oneonta and Plattsburg are. According to the posted SOS on D3 Plattsburg has the 12th toughest schedule in all of D3 baseball and Oneonta the 39th. Please see below. You see it is my contention, over on the NE Board, that NY teams are stronger this year than the traditional NE teams; and that if a couple of scenarios took place we could see a NY team get shipped East.

CUNYC - Staten Island - 335

E8 - St. John's Fisher - 80

LL- Rochester - 144, Skidmore - 115

SUNYAC - Cortland 60 (also ranked #12 National Poll), Plattsburgh 12 (ranked #34 National Poll), Oneonta 39 (ranked #40 National Poll)

SKY - Farmingdale - 132


The SUNYAC is the one of most interest to me. Three Nationally Ranked teams all with SOS of 60 or better! hmmm


Word
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 28, 2010, 03:02:17 pm
Hello from New England,

Just trying to figure out possible scenarios for Pool C bids possibly being shipped out of New England or out of New York.

I dont think New York will send a team to New England but it is highly likely that a N.E. team will be headed to Auburn in May.

As for at-large bids,  who do you guys think have a good shot at one?  

If Rochester does not win LL then they probably will get one but does Plattsburgh and Oneonta have a chance at obtaining a Pool C?

And do you think St. John Fisher has done enough to earn a Pool B bid out of the E8?

Thanks!

Shouldn't you be getting ready to go to Orleans? ;)

I don't think you'll have to worry about anyone being shipped out of the New York region. It simply hasn't happened. This is mostly because of the region's relative strength and the fact that both the Mid-Atlantic and New England regions have so many more teams and possibilities for Pool C selections. If anything, clubs from those regions and possibly the very strong Mideast will be sent to the Auburn regional.

In terms of a Pool C bid, I think there are only a handful of possibilities. Cortland, should it not win the YAC tournament would be a lock. That said, the Dragons have only come out of the league as an at-large twice, 1996 and 2004. Those are the only two instances where two SUNYAC teams made it into the tournament - because Cortland was upset in both cases. It could happen but if it doesn't, Oneonta and Plattsburgh won't get in. We've had the discussion in another thread about the schedule of both teams and while the SOS numbers say one thing, reality says another. I don't think you can compare for example Cortland and Plattsburgh's schedules. However, you can only win the games you're scheduled in so we won't get into that debate again.

The Liberty League is the best chance for a Pool C and I'd think they'll get two clubs in - Rochester and other. UR has pretty much sewn up an at-large bid at this point and would pretty much have to have a meltdown to not make it. That said, their poor history in the conference tournament leads me to believe that someone else will grab the automatic qualifier and Rochester will grab the at-large. Who this will be, well, who knows - one of three other teams that make the tournament, possibly Clarkson, Skidmore, SLU or maybe RPI (who could miss the league mixer entirely). But, chances are the LL gets two teams in for the third time since 2006.

Pool B, eh, I really don't know. Fisher is probably the best chance for one though Ithaca is mathematically eligible. It will probably come down to the May 5th doubleheader in Pittsford. Though, if Fisher wins out up until then, it may not matter since they'll have a solid regional record. Hats off to Brandon Potter for the great job he has done as an interim head coach and hopefully he'll get the interim removed after the season.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on April 28, 2010, 07:07:49 pm
Well said John.  Rochester gets thumped today 10-2 by St. John Fisher now dropping four of five.  They travel north to Clarkson where they traditionally don't have a lot of success.  With their history in the post season, I wonder though how much of a "lock" they may be.  They are 20-6 in region with a nice sweep of RPI in their favor.  Outside of that, not a lot of great in region wins on their schedule.  Should be a good finish.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Hobbesy on April 28, 2010, 07:31:52 pm
Oh I am getting ready John...

But didnt LL get two teams last year with Clarkson and RPI??

Cortland will always be a lock in the regional unless something terrible goes wrong.  It just doesnt appear anyone can beat them when it counts in the conference. 

But Oneonta may have the equalizer in Filak.  He already beat them once and could cause some problems in the tournament. 

As for RPI, they were suppose to be one of the best teams in the region.  If they can get in the LL tournament, you gotta believe they have a chance to win.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 28, 2010, 07:44:02 pm
Oh I am getting ready John...

But didnt LL get two teams last year with Clarkson and RPI??

Cortland will always be a lock in the regional unless something terrible goes wrong.  It just doesnt appear anyone can beat them when it counts in the conference. 

But Oneonta may have the equalizer in Filak.  He already beat them once and could cause some problems in the tournament. 

As for RPI, they were suppose to be one of the best teams in the region.  If they can get in the LL tournament, you gotta believe they have a chance to win.

Woops, forgot about last year. The Liberty is similar to the SUNYAC in that if the favorite loses, chances are they are going to get an at large. Though that has been RPI in the past and not Rochester.

RPI lost a decent amount from last year but looked to be OK however they lost Nic Marchese,an all-league outfielder, right before the season and they haven't really gotten on track this year. But, you're right, if they make the tournament, they'll be in the hunt.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 29, 2010, 03:59:29 pm
New York Region Rankings - http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/042910aaa.html

1. Cortland State  22-3-1 (27-7-1 overall)
2. Skidmore 17-6 (22-8 overall)
3. Plattsburgh State 18-7 (28-8 overall)
4. Rochester 25-7 (26-9 overall)
5. St. John Fisher 20-10 (21-10 overall)
6. CSI 24-9 (26-9 overall)

Discuss. BTW, kind of strange to see Fisher with only one non-region game on the entire schedule but that's how it works out.

Biggest surprise for me is Plattsburgh at number three and Rochester over SJF given the fact that the Cardinals have beaten UR in both head-to-head meetings.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on April 30, 2010, 10:51:47 am
John, Beloit, Scranton, Thiel, etc.... they have all moved to New York State!!  I really don't know how they count as region games, maybe you can enlighten me on that. 

I would have went this way;

1. Cortland
2  St. John Fisher
3. Skidmore
4. Rochester
5. Plattsburgh

Then on down the line.  Oneonta would be in the mix with wins over Cortland and St. John Fisher.  You can really throw those 4 teams in a hat right now after Cortland.  I don't like Plattsburghs non-conference schedule wins (they can't help it, I know) and they have been getting smacked around a bit mid-week (see Clarkson and Castleton St.).  Skidmore ahead of Rochester on weekend series win only, I still think Rochester is a little bit better then Skidmore though.  St. John Fisher is 14-3 in last 17, btw, their greatest margin of defeat is only 2 runs!!!  8 of 11 loses by one run.  Nice sleeper pick a bit to come out of NY if they get in.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 30, 2010, 12:40:17 pm
John, Beloit, Scranton, Thiel, etc.... they have all moved to New York State!!  I really don't know how they count as region games, maybe you can enlighten me on that.  

I would have went this way;

1. Cortland
2  St. John Fisher
3. Skidmore
4. Rochester
5. Plattsburgh

Then on down the line.  Oneonta would be in the mix with wins over Cortland and St. John Fisher.  You can really throw those 4 teams in a hat right now after Cortland.  I don't like Plattsburghs non-conference schedule wins (they can't help it, I know) and they have been getting smacked around a bit mid-week (see Clarkson and Castleton St.).  Skidmore ahead of Rochester on weekend series win only, I still think Rochester is a little bit better then Skidmore though.  St. John Fisher is 14-3 in last 17, btw, their greatest margin of defeat is only 2 runs!!!  8 of 11 loses by one run.  Nice sleeper pick a bit to come out of NY if they get in.

The only non-region team on Fisher's schedule is Beloit for obvious reasons. The other teams not from New York are located in the New York-Pennsylvania administrative region basically meaning that any game between teams located in those two states counts as an in-region game regardless if its' over the mile limit or not. So, Thiel, Scranton, Alvernia, Muhlenberg, etc. etc. are all in-region contests.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: FranElia on April 30, 2010, 10:00:55 pm
Just to follow up and confirm what John said, for schools in New York, a game is considered in-region if the opponent meets ANY of the following criteria:

1) The school is in the same evaluation region (these are mainly New York schools, but Stevens is in the N.Y. evaluation region since it's in the Empire 8)

2) The school is in the same NCAA administrative region (New York State and Pennsylvania comprise an administrative region, so, as John said, any school in PA is an in-region game for any school in NY)

3) The school is within 200 miles of the other school, according to the NCAA mileage calculator at https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/TES/exec/miles (go to Mileage Calcluator link, then choose Institution to Institution). This, for examples, makes a school like Ramapo an in-region opponent for Cortland (195 miles) but not for someone like St. John Fisher, whereas William Paterson is an in-region opponent for RPI (141 miles) but not for Cortland (205 miles).

Also, one small correction to an earlier post - technically, neither Cortland nor Oswego were automatic bid teams in the 1996 NCAA's - there was no automatic bid for the league back then. Still, the point is well taken - Cortland has earned an NCAA bid each of the last two times it didn't win the SUNYAC tournament.

Fran Elia
Cortland SID
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on April 30, 2010, 10:02:26 pm
Gotta love the NCAA.  Thanks for the info. guys.  Good stuff
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Truthfinder on May 01, 2010, 04:18:26 pm
Gotta love the NCAA.

Do we?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: pstate17 on March 06, 2011, 03:45:10 pm
Gotta love the NCAA.

Do we?

Well we don't have to love the AP either but they seem to talk nonstop...
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Tarheel0550 on March 23, 2011, 01:30:16 pm
Anyone else notice that the teams from out west that start so much earlier than our teams do are staying seeded higher in top 25 poll than alot of cold weather teams?Linfield only plays about 3 good teams a year and they have stayed locked into the number 9 spot in polls.Looks like once you get into top ten all you have to do is break even to keep position,Cortland has played a heck of alot tougher schedule than Linfield has and has dang near dropped out of top 25.I would love to see some of the N_West teams play in SUNYAC or N-England region.bet they wouldnt be ranked so high then.I'm just spewing ,but it does get frustrating.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: BigPoppa on March 23, 2011, 01:41:17 pm
Maybe because the teams in the Northeast are so used to getting the attention that when they don't it appears wrong? Cortland dropped quickly as they lost three games early that they had no business losing. I have said it over and over... easier to drop than to climb. Cortland will settle in and get rolling and climb back into the big picture.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Tarheel0550 on March 23, 2011, 01:47:40 pm
B-Poppa,Not that they are not getting the attention,but who does Linfield play in their conference?Pac-Lu ? ooh scarry,Havnt even heard of some of the teams they play, plus they have lost 4 games and dont move in polls?Atleast most of the teams out here dont dodge tough competition.They do beat eachother up in conference play and maybe that hurts them.Maybe they should schedule 25 pattsies ayear then play a few good  teams just to make them look legit.I kinda think thats why the west coast teams play so early, get a top ranking early so they can stay in the polls.No offense to the legit teams like Tyler Texas and Trinity,you guys are for real every year.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: BigPoppa on March 23, 2011, 01:53:38 pm
The Northeast also has many more teams in the area than the Northwest. two of Linfield's losses are to top-notch NAIA programs (including Lewis and Clark State who has won 11 of the last 15 national titles).

Linfield is not dodging the competition. They play a very solid non-conference schedule including a three four game set with Chapman later in the season.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: BBFan62 on March 23, 2011, 02:02:28 pm
Why care one tiny bit about polls? They still charge you for coffee when you go out, regardless of where you rank in any poll. Usually it is not the player or the coach who complains about where the team is ranked or whether or not they're even ranked. Think a poll ranking stopped IWU last year? Sure, it's nice to see your name up there; but what really matters starts at the conference tournaments.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Tarheel0550 on March 23, 2011, 02:08:37 pm
Sorry,NAIA, there is a reason that schools choose the NAIA and its because they dont have near the stringent rules that the NCAA has.Won back to back national championships in football for an NAIA  team and most of our players came from NCAA schools and they transferred because of the rules and regs that the NCAA imposes on players and schools.Not the same competition as most NCAA schools.As far as the N-East having many more schools than the N-West thats the same arguement I get from the Pac-Lu parents {its not our fault there isnt anyone for us to play}gimme a break.If there isnt enough quality competition than maybe they should think about going up a division or switching to NAIA,since Im always told about the QUALITY NAIA teams in the area.I also dont know how those games should even count towards your record,if a school isnt affiliated with the NCAA the games shouldnt count.BBFan62 the polls count alot when recruiting wether or not they are preseason or post season they count when you are trying to get a player in your program
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: BigPoppa on March 23, 2011, 02:13:31 pm
Tarheel-

If you are insinuating that Lewis and Clark State is not a quality program you are completely clueless. Look outside of your own region once in a while to see what else is out there.

LC State:
* 14 MLB players
* 117 drafted players

Clearly, MLB scouts would disagree with you.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: dahlby on March 23, 2011, 02:18:50 pm
BigPoppa:

Linfield and Chapman play 4 game set 4/15-4/17. FYI
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Tarheel0550 on March 23, 2011, 02:32:06 pm
not saying that they are not a quality program but why are the teams out there sitting on the fence?go one way or the other NCAA or NAIA. Bet JUCOS have have had more payers drafted ,that doesnt mean they are better teams,there is a reason you play NAIA.and it isnt because you are a student athlete.And about being "clueless" check out how Elon University is doing now that they are NCAA and not NAIA.A one time power house in the NAIA is now a joke at times in the NCAA.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: BigPoppa on March 23, 2011, 02:36:24 pm
We are not talking about Elon, we are talking about Lewis and Clark State. Stop changing the subject because you didn't like the results.

LC State is in a region of the country with few, if any, NCAA programs.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Tarheel0550 on March 23, 2011, 02:48:33 pm
You are the one that said look outside our own region .Put down the Starbucks and walk away from keyboard.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: dahlby on March 23, 2011, 02:59:17 pm
Tarheel0550'

Many student athletes have attended an NAIA school and gone on to successful careers. I was one of them, and I take offense to your generalization that was not qualified. There are many reasons that student athletes choose a particular school. Stick to the quality of team and ratings. I agree with BigPoppa.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Tarheel0550 on March 23, 2011, 03:08:12 pm
dahlby- I also attended an NAIA school thats why I brought up Elon,I asked how Linfield was staying in the top 10 after losing 4 games and B-Poppa went on his tangent about playing L&C after I mentioned that I dont feel they play a tough enough schedule to be locked into that position.I am not generalizing any conference but alot of kids go where they dont have to put in the book time that most of the NCAA D-III schools require.Just because you go D-III doesnt mean you are not a top athlete but you do realize that the books are more important than the game.No matter how far you go in sports it ends for everone at sometime and you better have the education to fall back on.Thats why I hated to see D.Filak leave Oneonta State last year after being drafted.But I also know being drafted in the 4th round is something most players wouldnt turn down.PS love the minus 2 kharma rating ,Dont agree with someone elses opinion get knocked down HA Ha
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: dahlby on March 23, 2011, 03:13:15 pm
Tarheel0550,

You specifically took a jab at NAIA academics. I received a quality education from an NAIA school, as did one of my brothers and my father, along with several of my cousins and their kids. You can make the statement if you refer to those you know of, but leave out the vast majority that you have no idea about.

Regarding Linfield....the year is still young, they have some tough games coming up, as do the rest of the D3 schools. I will hold my opinion until after the season is deeper.

I knocked you down because you did not back up your opinion. Didn't you learn that in college?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Tarheel0550 on March 23, 2011, 03:16:56 pm
And I will stand by my statement that NAIA schools do not have as strict rules and regs pertaining to student athletes that the NCAA requires.Must be I didnt since I went to an NAIA school prob.would have had I gone to an NCAA school.This is so funny, you people really think any of what we talk about on this site matters?This is a fun site where you can learn alot and also blow off steam at some of the things that go on in sports.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: dahlby on March 23, 2011, 03:20:17 pm
Tarheel0550,

Now I see that you are changing your statement. I would add that "some" NAIA schools...
You are improving, I will give your K back.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Tarheel0550 on March 23, 2011, 03:24:49 pm
thanks but you will prob take it away again now.Anyway gotta get back to work play time is over .Good luck to ALL the teams this year
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: scscoach on March 24, 2011, 08:35:14 pm
Does anyone know where the regionals will be held this year?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: baseballislife on March 24, 2011, 08:40:37 pm
Auburn again.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: rob on March 04, 2013, 03:48:48 pm
It's March 4, any word on when the rest of the New York Regional Preview will be posted???
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: BBFan62 on March 05, 2013, 08:43:00 am
I'm also wondering about the second installment of the NY region, although we can pretty much guess what it will state. Still, the season is off and running!
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Big Louie on March 05, 2013, 10:11:03 am
Ranking the NY Region Top 10 from (February 23-March 4)

1.) Ithaca (4-0)
Impressive win over national power Eastern Conn. Took care of business against weaker opponents
2.) Cortland State (5-1)
Only loss to nationally ranked #6 Salisbury. Handled four NY regional opponents
3.) St John Fisher (3-1)
Only loss to nationally ranked Aurora
4.) Brockport State (2-0)
Defeated nationally ranked Kean. Edged Baruch for other win
5.) Stevens (3-1)
Played Eastern Conn tough; picked up three easy wins against weaker schedule
6.) Oswego State (2-1)
split with Rutgers Camden; comeback win against TCNJ
7.) RIT (4-2)
offense carried them to a 4-2 spring trip, however relatively weak schedule. notable win against preseason ranked Farmingdale
8.) Old Westbury (3-3)
Skyline favorite off to .500 start with tough early season schedule
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: rob on March 05, 2013, 11:48:29 am
Ranking the NY Region Top 10 from (February 23-March 4)

1.) Ithaca (4-0)
Impressive win over national power Eastern Conn. Took care of business against weaker opponents
2.) Cortland State (5-1)
Only loss to nationally ranked #6 Salisbury. Handled four NY regional opponents
3.) St John Fisher (3-1)
Only loss to nationally ranked Aurora
4.) Brockport State (2-0)
Defeated nationally ranked Kean. Edged Baruch for other win
5.) Stevens (3-1)
Played Eastern Conn tough; picked up three easy wins against weaker schedule
6.) Oswego State (2-1)
split with Rutgers Camden; comeback win against TCNJ
7.) RIT (4-2)
offense carried them to a 4-2 spring trip, however relatively weak schedule. notable win against preseason ranked Farmingdale
8.) Old Westbury (3-3)
Skyline favorite off to .500 start with tough early season schedule
Ithaca #1, Cortland #2.
Really??
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on March 09, 2013, 03:42:59 pm
I am with Rob..but, let's wait on these region rankings until everyone is done their trips.  Cortland is a top 5 team, Ithaca is not.  Not to take anything away from Ithaca who is playing well...but they will have a hard enough time in their own league so comparing them to the Dragons at this point is a bit premature.  This region is good though, I think NY has four to six top 25 teams and that isn't always the case!!
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: rob on March 10, 2013, 10:21:14 am
So the rest of the NY Regional Previews are out...
good job, some good assessments for the most part.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 10, 2013, 02:19:28 pm
Ranking the NY Region Top 10 from (February 23-March 4)

1.) Ithaca (4-0)
Impressive win over national power Eastern Conn. Took care of business against weaker opponents
2.) Cortland State (5-1)
Only loss to nationally ranked #6 Salisbury. Handled four NY regional opponents
3.) St John Fisher (3-1)
Only loss to nationally ranked Aurora
4.) Brockport State (2-0)
Defeated nationally ranked Kean. Edged Baruch for other win
5.) Stevens (3-1)
Played Eastern Conn tough; picked up three easy wins against weaker schedule
6.) Oswego State (2-1)
split with Rutgers Camden; comeback win against TCNJ
7.) RIT (4-2)
offense carried them to a 4-2 spring trip, however relatively weak schedule. notable win against preseason ranked Farmingdale
8.) Old Westbury (3-3)
Skyline favorite off to .500 start with tough early season schedule
Thanks, Big Louie.  I appreciate your input.  Keep them coming.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on March 11, 2013, 01:58:24 am
So the rest of the NY Regional Previews are out...
good job, some good assessments for the most part.

Computer died while in the midst of writing. What's your take on the region?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: rob on March 11, 2013, 12:29:40 pm
So the rest of the NY Regional Previews are out...
good job, some good assessments for the most part.

Computer died while in the midst of writing. What's your take on the region?
The New York Region just seems to get better and more competitve every year.
Farmingdale is off to a slow start but I won't count them out, they seem to do this every season and then finish strong.  Brockport is always a tough competitor and will again challenge Cortland in the SUNYAC and will likely be in the Regional.  New Paltz may have turned the corner that I thought they were going to turn last year, but they will need to upgrade their pitching after this year. St. John Fisher has proven they can win but I think pitching may be an issue this year.  Skidmore may be the 2nd or 3rd best team in the region by the end of the season, very good sophomore pitchers.  RIT is playing some good baseball in the early goings.  Cortland is by far the team to beat as usual, they just seem to retool and rebuild every year.  Every class on that team is effective and the Freshmen this year look especially strong, may be even harder to overtake in the next few years which is somewhat scary for the rest of the region.  It would be nice to have a national champ from NY again.  It's been awhile.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on March 11, 2013, 04:26:16 pm
Tier 1- Cortland, until someone knocks them off, no one else is here
Tier 2- Fisher, Brockport, Ithaca..I still give Fisher the edge in the Empire 8, Brockport keeps rolling along
Tier 3- St. lawrence, RPI, Skidmore, Clarkson, Oneonta, Oswego, Stevens, Farmingdale, Old Westbury.. Someone in the LL could jump into tier 2..surprised St. Lawrence got shut out back to back against Gettysburg. 

Just my thoughts, region looks good, could see a few more at large's this year.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: AlleyCat on March 18, 2013, 03:11:19 pm
Updates since some of the teams have played more?????
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on March 19, 2013, 01:28:13 am
Not much to report for changes.  Cortland has dropped a couple but their schedule is so good it is inevitable.  RPI had a nice end of trip.  Farmingdale has played a very good schedule.  The region looks very competitive outside NY as well.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: rob on March 23, 2013, 10:54:39 am
Does anyone know if the NY Regional site has been announced yet?  Or if it has unofficially been leaked?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: OshDude on March 23, 2013, 01:13:33 pm
Does anyone know if the NY Regional site has been announced yet?  Or if it has unofficially been leaked?
It was in an Around the Nation column (http://d3baseball.com/columns/around-the-nation/2013/ATN_Feb27) weeks ago: Ithaca.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: rob on March 23, 2013, 04:37:16 pm
Does anyone know if the NY Regional site has been announced yet?  Or if it has unofficially been leaked?
It was in an Around the Nation column (http://d3baseball.com/columns/around-the-nation/2013/ATN_Feb27) weeks ago: Ithaca.
OK, thanks
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on March 24, 2013, 01:04:46 am
Does anyone know if the NY Regional site has been announced yet?  Or if it has unofficially been leaked?
It was in an Around the Nation column (http://d3baseball.com/columns/around-the-nation/2013/ATN_Feb27) weeks ago: Ithaca.
OK, thanks

Ithaca likely hosting at Falcon Park in Auburn. No surprise there, that has pretty much been the home of the New York regional since RPI stopped hosting in Troy/Albany.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: rob on March 24, 2013, 08:15:14 am
Does anyone know if the NY Regional site has been announced yet?  Or if it has unofficially been leaked?
It was in an Around the Nation column (http://d3baseball.com/columns/around-the-nation/2013/ATN_Feb27) weeks ago: Ithaca.
OK, thanks
Is there any chance Ithaca will host at Cornell?

Ithaca likely hosting at Falcon Park in Auburn. No surprise there, that has pretty much been the home of the New York regional since RPI stopped hosting in Troy/Albany.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on March 24, 2013, 04:45:42 pm
No because Cornell doesn't have lights.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: rob on March 24, 2013, 08:40:51 pm
No because Cornell doesn't have lights.
AHHH,  thank you
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on February 20, 2014, 05:45:01 pm
My take on the region's top five heading into the first few games of the 2014 season.

T-1) Cortland State
T-1) Ithaca
3) St. John Fisher
4) Rensselaer
5) Farmingdale State

The top spot is pretty much a wash but I believe Cortland and Ithaca are most definitely the best teams. Both have major individual losses to replace from graduations but each should reload.

All five I believe will be NCAA tournament teams. Fisher will again likely end up playing out of the region as it is geographically speaking, the western-most team among the top squads. I could see Fisher again heading to a regional in Ohio.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on February 20, 2014, 06:35:40 pm
This should be very close.  I can't see anyone getting Cortland in the Yac.  I could see Fisher over Ithaca, they return all their arms and get the four game series at home.  No clue on the Liberty League...Union, CU, St. Law. all could threaten RPI. 
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on February 20, 2014, 06:41:21 pm
This should be very close.  I can't see anyone getting Cortland in the Yac.  I could see Fisher over Ithaca, they return all their arms and get the four game series at home.  No clue on the Liberty League...Union, CU, St. Law. all could threaten RPI.

I don't think Clarkson has enough pitching. They'll be in the middle of the pack and may contend for a three or four slot if their number one can get some help in the rotation. Rensselaer has the most pitching of any team in the league which will go a long way.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: AlleyCat on March 17, 2014, 02:19:06 pm
Early NY Rankings anyone?

1. St John Fisher
2. Cortland
3. Ithaca
4. RPI
5. Farmingdale St
6. Brockport
7. Oswego
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on March 17, 2014, 03:12:32 pm
hmmmmm...
1. Cortland
1. St. John Fisher
3. RPI
4. Oswego
5. Ithaca
6. Brockport

Hesitant a bit with Fisher over Cortland simply because Cortland's schedule is so good. Fisher has been dominant.  Oswego is off to a good start with a win of TCNJ.  I dropped Ithaca simply because of the scores, they gave up a ton of runs and the California teams they played weren't that great, with an exception or two (Cal Lu).  good list!
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on April 08, 2014, 10:03:21 pm
Almost halfway for most New York Region teams...

1/2. Cortland
1/2. St. John Fisher
3. Ithaca
4. Oswego
5. RPI
6. Farmingdale
7. Stevens
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on April 08, 2014, 11:52:07 pm
I will take a shot at this:

Top 2: St. John Fisher, Cortland
3. Ithaca (not the same team as last year)
4-8 (no order) RPI, Oswego, Brockport, Union, Farmingdale

Hon. Mention: Stevens
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on April 09, 2014, 10:35:11 am
I agree with that airball. Some of the 4-8 teams have many more games to play also (Union-12 played; Oswego-16). In the next few weeks I think the picture will come into a little more focus. I still believe St. John Fisher, Cortland, and Ithaca will remain in the top 4 regardless. The other 5 or 6 considered may move up or down, or remove themselves from consideration all together.

Brockport has some work to do, now being 3-6 in SUNYAC.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 16, 2014, 11:19:52 am
http://t.co/ncrBtUsU6T

Big news from Auburn that Falcon Park will not be able to host the "New York" regional this year due to poor weather delaying field replacement.

I wonder where the regional will be moved to? NBT Bank Stadium in Syracuse isn't available for the entire time period of the regionals nor is NYSEG Stadium in Binghamton. I believe Ithaca is the host school for the regional - I can't see the tournament being moved to Freeman Field.

What does everyone think?

One would assume there is already a replacement plan in the works since it is not like this came out of nowhere.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on April 16, 2014, 12:43:37 pm
Options:

Hoy Field at Cornell - no lights?

Bearcats Sports Complex at Binghamton - no lights?

Sal Malgie Stadium at Niagara

Demske Sports Complex at Canisius - multi-sport turf field with lights

Amherst Audubon Field at Buffalo

Fred Handler Park at St. Bonaventure - no lights?

Dunn Field in Elmira

Dwyer Stadium - Batavia Muckdogs -- short season doesn't begin until June

Frontier Field - Rochester Red Wings -- unavailable May 14-18
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: baseballislife on April 16, 2014, 09:55:15 pm
Most of those sites are in western NY and with most of the D3 teams located in other parts of NYS, I think they will try and get something more centrally located.  Not to mention that Ithaca is the host. 

Not that it is an awesome stadium, but what about Murname Field in Utica?  They have hosted the American Legion NYS Tournament many times.  Old time stadium that seats perhaps 2,000 - 3,000 mostly in a large grandstand behind home plate.  Decent field quality and there should be plenty of hotel space available?  At least it is centrally located in NY, although it is 3X as far from Ithaca as Auburn is...
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on April 16, 2014, 10:14:20 pm
NBT would be good.  Other options (field conditions, hotels, lights):
Oneonta, Frontier Field, Murnane is decent, Coburn Park in Newark, Watertown Duffy Fairgrounds, Dunn Field Elmira (playing surface is questionable) any other thoughts?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 17, 2014, 11:58:44 am
The majority of the minor league parks in the upstate area, that are playable, are booked that week - that means NBT Bank Stadium in Syracuse, Frontier Field in Rochester and NYSEG Stadium in Binghamton are all booked. Joe Bruno Stadium at Hudson Valley Community College, home of the Tri-City ValleyCats and a former regional site when RPI hosted, could be an option but then you'd need either a more local school to host or a lot of hotel rooms for staffers. I suppose the same could be said for Dutchess County Stadium in Fishkill though the regional has never been played there.

Unfortunately, no school in upstate New York really has an on-campus facility that could host - unless the regional ended up with six teams and all the games could be played in daylight. I don't believe anyone has lights outside of Farmingdale State. I have no knowledge of the situation but I think Farmingdale could possibly host in a pinch if hotel rooms could be lined up on short notice.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: djm222ball on April 17, 2014, 12:24:58 pm
Joe Bruno would be a great option. Also, Dutchess County Stadium just installed turf or Bellizzi Stadium in Albany. Murnane could also be an option in Utica
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on April 17, 2014, 12:30:09 pm
In recent past, has NY been a 6-team or 8-team regional?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 17, 2014, 02:37:23 pm
In recent past, has NY been a 6-team or 8-team regional?

Last year there were eight teams. I would again lean towards eight teams - especially now with auto bids coming from the SUNYAC, CUNYAC, Liberty League and the Skyline. Ithaca and St. John Fisher will also be in the mix as Pool B at-large teams. Add in maybe another team or two from the Mid-Atlantic or New England and you've got an eight-team bracket.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 23, 2014, 12:19:57 pm
Conference leaders heading into the final weekend of April.

CUNYAC - Staten Island
Empire 8 - Ithaca
Liberty League - Union
Skyline - Three-way tie between Purchase, Old Westbury and St. Joseph's (Long Island).
SUNYAC - Cortland State
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: rob on April 23, 2014, 01:33:58 pm
Farmingdale State has excellent facilities and has hosted the regional before, would be a good location.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 25, 2014, 11:06:02 am
First regional rankings released by the NCAA yesterday.

1) Cortland State
2) Ithaca
3) Oswego State
4) St. John Fisher
5) Brockport State
6) Rochester

Discuss.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: baseballislife on April 25, 2014, 12:46:57 pm
I think it is a fair first ranking.  This does not include this week's games, so does not include Brockport's losses to Rochester and St. John Fisher.  With Rochester's 6-0 win over Ithaca, that might be enough to bump them up to #5.  I would also include Union (currently in first place in the LL) in the #6 spot, taking Brockport out of the rankings.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: djm222ball on April 26, 2014, 10:17:06 pm
Union is 18-6-1 and should be given consideration.......I agree
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on May 02, 2014, 09:32:51 am
NEW YORK   

1.   SUNY Cortland           27-8       27-8
2.   Ithaca                   22-8       26-8
3.   St. John Fisher           22-6       23-9
4.   Oswego State           19-10   19-10
5.   Rochester (N.Y.)   23-14   23-14
6.   Farmingdale State   21-8       21-10


Thoughts after the 2nd regional rankings have been released?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on May 02, 2014, 07:19:21 pm
That seems about right.  Union dropped two games against Vassar which hurt their chances of sliding in.  Farmingdale could be argued against, they are the three seed in their conference tourney.  I think it would get interesting if Stevens won the CUNYAC with the AQ.  Then, let's say Fisher gets hot and rights the ship, which they easily could.  Would the NCAA take three teams from the Empire 8?  I know technically Stevens does not count as an E8 team, but, if Fisher ends up 30-6, 29-7ish in the region, would they take Ithaca and Fisher? 
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 05, 2014, 06:13:17 pm
First two New York region teams to clinch spots in the NCAA tournament are Cortland State and Farmingdale State. The Liberty League and CUNYAC will determine their champions this upcoming weekend.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: baseballislife on May 05, 2014, 06:23:25 pm
Any idea where the regional will be played yet?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on May 05, 2014, 06:24:22 pm
Do you think the NCAA will take both Ithaca and Fisher...Fisher win today moves them to 26-7 in region with Brockport, Utica (2) and they are playing in the ECAC...could get to 30.  I think if they get to that number, they get in.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 05, 2014, 06:45:31 pm
Just tweeted by @D3baseball - the "New York" regional will be hosted by Ithaca College and played at Colburn Park in Newark, New York.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: baseballislife on May 05, 2014, 07:11:41 pm
Thanks for the Regional site information.  Old park in a pretty rural area - home of the Perfect Game Summer Collegiate League Newark Pilots.  They do have lights, which is good for weather delays, but not many hotels in Newark.  Interesting choice.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on May 05, 2014, 08:56:56 pm
Great Choice!!  Neat setting, still centrally located, good to see someone step up and host it.  Great surface, good for the region.  And, good for Ithaca to step up and host.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 05, 2014, 10:48:02 pm
Thanks for the Regional site information.  Old park in a pretty rural area - home of the Perfect Game Summer Collegiate League Newark Pilots.  They do have lights, which is good for weather delays, but not many hotels in Newark.  Interesting choice.

EDIT: Scratch that whole commuting thing - Newark is a little farther away from some schools than I thought. Still, there should be enough hotel space for everyone and Geneva is not that far away.

Tough situation from everyone all around here especially given the late notice of a change in venue; glad something finally was settled. Newark wouldn't have been my first choice but I think the facility and Ithaca will do a fine job.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 09, 2014, 09:14:05 am
Stevens and Baruch will play for the CUNYAC championship on Saturday in Brooklyn. The winner will receive an automatic bid into the NCAA tournament and likely will head to the Newark, N.Y., regional at Colburn Park. Both the Ducks and Bears defeated top seeded Staten Island which knocked the Dolphins out of the double-elimination tournament.

New York Pool A bids currently...SUNYAC - Cortland State, Skyline - Farmingdale State, CUNYAC - Stevens/Baruch, LL - Union/Rochester/Clarkson/Vassar.

Both Ithaca and St. John Fisher are in the mix for Pool B and C at-large bids into the NCAA tournament. Remember, the Bombers and Cardinals are competing against a national feed for at-large bids.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 09, 2014, 09:47:59 am
Regional Rankings, Week 3

1. Cortland State - NCAA Pool A, SUNYAC
2. Ithaca
3. St. John Fisher
4. Farmingdale State - NCAA Pool A, Skyline
5. Rochester
6. Brockport State
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on February 05, 2015, 10:09:35 am
We're just over a week away from the start of the regular season. New York teams will start playing games down south as early as next weekend. We'll also be publishing our "New York" preview on D3baseball.com next week.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the upcoming season? I'll post my preseason top five for the region once the preview is posted.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on February 09, 2015, 09:08:56 pm
Great job with the NY preview.  I think it's time the NCAA went to 8 team regionals, no shipping.  NY has enough good teams to represent a solid 8 team regional.  Thoughts?  Is it even realistic?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on February 10, 2015, 12:05:17 pm
Great job with the NY preview.  I think it's time the NCAA went to 8 team regionals, no shipping.  NY has enough good teams to represent a solid 8 team regional.  Thoughts?  Is it even realistic?

No, this is not realistic. Both the New England and Mid-Atlantic regions have many more teams as compared to New York. As such, New England had eight automatic bids last year and the Mid-Atlantic had seven. Conversely, New York usually hands out three - SUNYAC, Liberty and Skyline. Potentially a NEAC bid could swing to New York should Keuka, SUNY Poly or Cazenovia win that conference tournament. The good news at least for the E8, which I'm thinking is where the discussion stems from, is that now there are six league teams with Elmira adding baseball so just one more is needed for an AQ. Down the road I could see Alfred State joining the conference as an affiliate for baseball and that would bring the league to seven teams. Given A-State's geographic proximity to most of the league, it would make sense.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DucksBB on February 10, 2015, 12:35:00 pm
So, John, I don't know all the logistics but this doesn't really answer the question of why the region can't go to 8 teams.  Not saying that those two extra spots would have gone to Ithaca or SJF but it's hard to deny a top 25 national team (Ithaca until the last poll) or a 30+ win team (SJF).  I guess if the region did go to 8 you are saying that would just increase the outside the region teams due to sheer numbers in the neighboring regions?

Gotta say, personally as Stevens Ducks backer, that I enjoyed the region preview and the fact that our program is rising and getting noticed.

Can't wait for the start of the season.  Good luck to all the teams out there!
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on February 10, 2015, 01:24:22 pm
So, John, I don't know all the logistics but this doesn't really answer the question of why the region can't go to 8 teams.  Not saying that those two extra spots would have gone to Ithaca or SJF but it's hard to deny a top 25 national team (Ithaca until the last poll) or a 30+ win team (SJF).  I guess if the region did go to 8 you are saying that would just increase the outside the region teams due to sheer numbers in the neighboring regions?

Gotta say, personally as Stevens Ducks backer, that I enjoyed the region preview and the fact that our program is rising and getting noticed.

Can't wait for the start of the season.  Good luck to all the teams out there!

Let's say for the sake of argument that New York was an eight-team regional with teams only from the region. With 41 in-region teams, you're talking about essentially 1/5 of the region getting into the NCAA tournament or 20%. Three of the eight slots would go to automatic bids (SUNYAC, Liberty, Skyline) and then you could have as many as five at-large selections. That is simply way too many as compared to the other two Northeast regions - New England and Mid-Atlantic - where there is room, on paper,  for potentially just one non-AQ team.

Also, the national rankings from D3baseball.com and the ABCA have no sway on the NCAA tournament selections. The regional rankings, which are compiled by the eight regional committees, have the most impact.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DucksBB on February 10, 2015, 02:51:25 pm
That's interesting regarding the regional rankings and their importance but it didn't seem to help Ithaca and SJF last year.  I'm not sure where they were at the end but I remember one that had them #2 and #3.  Doesn't help that the budgets don't allow moving teams geographically like D1 does to balance things out better.  It's a tough system for D3 trying to keep things regional, some years are gonna be tougher on deserving teams.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on February 10, 2015, 04:07:35 pm
Yes the NCAA tries to limits flights, but talk to the West region fans. They typically get 6 regional bids and someone, from another region, almost always gets flown in. I am not sure that they pick the teams with travel in mind. Some of it depends in who outs in a bid to host, and how many teams from other regions are within 500 miles. Depauw in the mideast has been sent to the South region several times. The National committee has had more flights some years and fewer others.  It depends on where the team was in the final ranking and when they came on the board and what other teams were there. The Polls while fun have nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: airball55 on February 10, 2015, 09:04:08 pm
I was coming from more of an angle that the selection committee's just really don't think too highly of NY...maybe rightfully so but I think the depth is better than ever.  The CUNYAC isn't getting a bid this year?  That was an odd situation last season. I would be interested to know the number of teams in each region.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on February 10, 2015, 11:26:43 pm
I was coming from more of an angle that the selection committee's just really don't think too highly of NY...maybe rightfully so but I think the depth is better than ever.  The CUNYAC isn't getting a bid this year?  That was an odd situation last season. I would be interested to know the number of teams in each region.

The CUNYAC had a one-year exemption last year.

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2014/04/pool-B

Regarding the number of region teams, check out the front page at D3baseball.com and under "Teams," each region is shown. Last year's Championship Handbook is also available through the News section on the top rail of the front page. The at-large selection criteria is also detailed down towards the bottom of the document. There is also a calculation shown in the handbook about how the number of Pool B and C bids are calculated.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on February 17, 2015, 10:33:32 pm
As the season begins, my preseason top five for the region.

Feel free to discuss.

1 - SUNY Cortland
2 - Rochester
3 - Stevens
4 - Ithaca
5 - Union
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on April 22, 2015, 09:00:36 am
Is there a timeline for the first official regional rankings?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 22, 2015, 09:47:52 am
Is there a timeline for the first official regional rankings?

The first rankings should be coming out pretty soon. Last year, they were released on April 24. It's fairly obvious that Cortland will be at the top of the heap in the region. Who do you guys think should be second? Both Rochester and Oswego have made very strong cases to be number two in the region. Oswego is 23-5 against anyone not named Cortland and the Lakers are among the top 25 nationally in terms of strength of schedule. Rochester just rattled off a 17-game win streak and went nearly a month between conference losses. Given Oswego's SOS (buoyed by Cortland), I would have the Lakers second in the region and the Yellow Jackets third. Right now, I could see both teams in the NCAA's.

After Oswego and Rochester, it's a little tougher. The next two are probably Stevens and Clarkson. Clarkson's difficult to gauge since the Golden Knights have played only 21 games. Stevens meanwhile has 21 wins. I'm not sure where the Ducks fall nationally in Pool B but if they continue to win and can get by Ithaca in early May, they could be in decent shape for an at-large.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: hotcorner15 on April 22, 2015, 06:34:38 pm
Based on the Lakers playing Cortland tooth and nail in their series,  I agree with your assessment that they should be 2, although the Jackets had the Corts on the ropes late in their only matchup only to collapse in the last inning. Had another scheduled but it looks like the Corts don't want to get it on  as it has no benefit to them. They are in regardless of the tournament and a loss to Rochester could damage the at large bid.  After watching Ithaca and Fisher not get at large bids last year, I think both the Lakers and Jackets need to win their tourney unless they both go on an unconscious run to close out.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 22, 2015, 06:42:11 pm
Based on the Lakers playing Cortland tooth and nail in their series,  I agree with your assessment that they should be 2, although the Jackets had the Corts on the ropes late in their only matchup only to collapse in the last inning. Had another scheduled but it looks like the Corts don't want to get it on  as it has no benefit to them. They are in regardless of the tournament and a loss to Rochester could damage the at large bid.  After watching Ithaca and Fisher not get at large bids last year, I think both the Lakers and Jackets need to win their tourney unless they both go on an unconscious run to close out.

Different situation for both Oswego and Rochester (should neither win their league AQ) as opposed to Ithaca and Fisher last year. The Lakers and Yellow Jackets would be in Pool C. While there are a limited number of at-large bids and you're against a national field, there are far more Pool C spots available than Pool B. Even with likely non-region teams coming into Auburn, I think there could be room for either Oswego or Rochester. It depends on how things shake out in the rest of the Northeast between New England, the Mid-Atlantic and Mid-East.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DucksBB on April 23, 2015, 12:25:30 pm
I think last year Ithaca and SJF were hurt by the fact Stevens got into regional thru their CUNY championship win.  The NCAA probably didn't want to place two E8 teams.   I agree, the Ithaca series will be huge for Stevens and their regional respect.  Their SOS is pretty good this year so the record is more meaningful.  14-1 record in last 15 games and an upcoming Elmira series where they, hopefully, will take care of business.  Looking forward to another possible regional tournament......
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 23, 2015, 01:46:22 pm
I think last year Ithaca and SJF were hurt by the fact Stevens got into regional thru their CUNY championship win.  The NCAA probably didn't want to place two E8 teams.   I agree, the Ithaca series will be huge for Stevens and their regional respect.  Their SOS is pretty good this year so the record is more meaningful.  14-1 record in last 15 games and an upcoming Elmira series where they, hopefully, will take care of business.  Looking forward to another possible regional tournament......

Disagree with the point about not wanting two Empire 8 teams. St. John Fisher and Ithaca have both made the tournament a few times. Once, St. John Fisher was sent to the Mid East regional at Marietta (and nearly won it) while Ithaca stayed at the New York regional. The two Pool B teams last year were Emory and Case Western Reserve. Both were in the top 16 nationally in terms of SOS and each had a .750 winning percentage versus in-region opponents. Ithaca (42) and St John Fisher (95) were much lower in terms of SOS. Fisher's in-region winning percentage was higher than either Emory or Case but against a weaker schedule. Had Fisher not lost three out of four from Ithaca, that would likely had gotten them into the tournament. Thankfully, the Empire 8 moving forward has the required number of teams for an AQ and beginning in 2017, they'll have an auto bid to the NCAA tournament and will not have to worry about Pool B.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DucksBB on April 23, 2015, 02:50:21 pm
Understood.....last yr was just a tough yr with so many teams with solid resumes.  As a Ducks supporter, I'm just hoping things work out for us this year.  It will be so nice when the E8 gets their AQ.  Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 24, 2015, 09:57:58 am
Regional rankings are out. I was a little off between the two Liberty League contenders.

1. Cortland 27-2 (.931)
2. Oswego 23-6 (.793)
3. Clarkson 16-5 (.762)
4. Stevens 22-10 (.688) - Record listed as 20-10 on NCAA web site
5. Rochester 23-8 (.742)
6. Brockport 14-13 (.519)

Rochester with a very good record was hurt by a very low SOS (263). Rochester and Clarkson play this weekend. I'm surprised to see Brockport ranked with a record just over .500. Brockport does have a strong SOS (57) and wins over Cortland & Rochester.



Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 30, 2015, 12:38:03 pm
Second set of rankings are due out today. I can't imagine there will be much change from last week's rankings. Clarkson (SOS - 90) should remain in the third slot after winning three out of four games against Rochester. Rochester meanwhile should remain in fifth place behind 26-10 Stevens. Clarkson hosts North Country rival St. Lawrence this weekend. Liberty leader R.I.T. could be the likely fifth team in the rankings after beating Brockport yesterday. R.I.T., R.P.I., Clarkson and Rochester all in the mix to host the league tournament heading into the final weekend of the season. R.I.T. plays at R.P.I. this weekend in a potential league playoff preview.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DucksBB on April 30, 2015, 04:47:21 pm
Agreed.....probably not much change expected.  Big weekend for Stevens vs Ithaca.  Important for Ducks to do well against Bombers in the eyes of the voters as Ithaca is the yearly power program from the E8.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: jdex on May 01, 2015, 11:30:43 am
Latest NY regional rankings  ...

1. Cortland 32-2
2. Oswego 23-8
3. Clarkson 20-6
4. Stevens 25-10
5. Brockport 18-14
6. St. John Fisher 18-16

Fisher makes inroads with 12 wins in last 14 games, though one of those setbacks to Elmira! Fisher roll followed being swept by Stevens in early April. Upcoming Fisher/Stevens tourney showdown??? Fisher dates at RIT and Brockport early next week. And, yes, Stevens has pesky Ithaca this weekend

Liberty League? Clarkson and SOS holding on in region. Upper echelon going head to head this weekend. Could see total flip flop among top four
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 03, 2015, 08:50:05 am
Two AQ's to be handed out today with both teams likely headed for Auburn.

SUNYAC - Cortland vs. Oswego, Oswego needs to win twice
Skyline - Old Westbury vs. Farmingdale, Farmingdale needs to win twice

In the Empire 8 yesterday, Ithaca swept Stevens. Ducks really need a win of their own today to keep NCAA at-large hopes alive.

In the Liberty League, it has come down to R.P.I. and Rochester. R.P.I. won three out of four from R.I.T. and the Engineers finished conference play at 18-6. Rochester split with Union yesterday and sits at 16-6 right now. With a sweep of the Dutchmen today, Rochester can tie R.P.I. for a share of first place. Not sure what the tiebreaker is since there was not a head-to-head meeting between the two teams this year due to the unbalanced league schedule. At this point, the tournament appears like it will be R.P.I., Rochester, Clarkson and R.I.T.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 03, 2015, 05:18:15 pm
Old Westbury is the first New York region team to claim an NCAA tournament automatic bid. The Panthers ended Farmingdale State's seven-year run at the top of the Skyline by defeating the Rams, 11-4, in a winner-take-all championship game at top seeded St. Joseph's (Long Island) this afternoon.

The Rams had won the first game of the championship round, 5-4, in 10 innings. Old Westbury had taken the lead in the top half of the 10th only to watch it slip away.

Old Westbury likely will play in Auburn making a return visit for the first time in 14 years. The Panthers are back in the NCAA tournament for the first time since 2001.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 03, 2015, 06:07:46 pm
SUNY Cortland wins the second automatic bid of the day in the New York region. Oswego forced a winner-take-all game with a 3-1 triumph in the SUNYAC championship round opener. Cortland then pounded Oswego, 10-3, in the championship game.

The tournament title is Cortland's 33rd overall and 14th in the last 16 seasons. The Red Dragons are also headed to the regionals for the 24th time in program history.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DucksBB on May 03, 2015, 10:17:45 pm
Stevens got their win today...good pitcher's duel with Ducks Yano vs Bombers Sanders.  One unearned run separated teams thru 7 innings (1-0) but Ducks pull out victory in the end.  Ithaca's regular season is complete and Stevens finishes Monday against Rutgers Camden.  Then on to the inaugural E8 tournament Thur-Sat.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on May 04, 2015, 10:38:42 am
With Cortland, Old Westbury, and LL winner in, it seems likely that an outsider will come to the NY Regional.

Oswego has a very strong Pool C chance, Rochester (can help or hurt themselves in tournament) and Clarkson (only 30 regular season games played) have a good chance, RPI most likely needs to win LL tournament.

Stevens has a strong chance for at-large, depending on other Pool B bids going out. I don't see Ithaca or St. John Fisher getting an at-large.

Does the NEAC winner come to NY Regional, or does that depend on who it is knowing there colleges from different regions there?

Thoughts? What a great time of the year this is!
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 04, 2015, 11:43:19 am
With Cortland, Old Westbury, and LL winner in, it seems likely that an outsider will come to the NY Regional.

Oswego has a very strong Pool C chance, Rochester (can help or hurt themselves in tournament) and Clarkson (only 30 regular season games played) have a good chance, RPI most likely needs to win LL tournament.

Stevens has a strong chance for at-large, depending on other Pool B bids going out. I don't see Ithaca or St. John Fisher getting an at-large.

Does the NEAC winner come to NY Regional, or does that depend on who it is knowing there colleges from different regions there?

Thoughts? What a great time of the year this is!

It's very likely that there will be at least a few non-region teams playing in Auburn. There just aren't enough teams and AQ leagues in the region to justify having eight teams play in the NCAA tournament. If I had to guess, at least one New England and one Mid-Atlantic.

The NEAC winner may or may not be shipped to Auburn. It depends on the team that wins the tournament though all four teams are within driving distance of Falcon Park if I'm not mistaken. If SUNY Poly (formerly SUNYIT) wins the NEAC tournament, then SUNY Poly would definitely be headed to Auburn. The other three could either go to Auburn or to the Mid-Atlantic regional in York.

In terms of New York at-larges, I would say Oswego right now has the best case with an SOS of 13 and a win over top regionally ranked Cortland. The Lakers benefit from five games against the Red Dragons. Their SOS will drop a little with games against R.I.T. and Caz left but right now, I would put Oswego in the tournament.

Rochester has to win the Liberty League to get in as the Yellow Jackets were not even in last week's regional rankings. The same goes for any of the other Liberty League teams. Clarkson has a strong record but I don't know if New York can get two Pool C teams into the tournament - this is assuming that Oswego gets an at-large.

I'm torn on Stevens. The Ducks have a decent enough record. They'll need to do well in the Empire 8 tournament. At this moment, they're in the Pool B discussion along with perennial Pool B favorite Emory and Wash. U. In last week's regional rankings - Emory was third in the South and Wash. U was fourth in the Central. And right now, despite the results this past weekend, I would take Stevens over both of Ithaca and St. John Fisher.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on May 05, 2015, 10:34:52 am
Yesterday with a Stevens (27-13) loss to Rutgers-Camden and a St. John Fisher (21-17) win vs. RIT (21-13), SJF is pushing for more consideration, especially with being in the week 2 Regional Rankings. They have one game with Brockport and one game with Cortland this week before the E8 tournament. Can they do enough to warrant an at-large?

Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Bombsquad on May 05, 2015, 12:32:32 pm
I saw Fisher last weekend at Ithaca.  They can really pitch.  Best I have seen.  Would be dangerous team if entered.  Record isn't great but after looking at their schedule (Heldelberg, Marietta, Cortland, Concordia Chicago, Suffolk, Keystone, etc..) you would think that schedule would merit some respect.  They have to run the table one would think but them, Oswego and Stevens have gone out and played some good teams.  I don't see Ithaca obviously, not enough games (sigh).  Stevens better win that tournament if they want to get in but have to beat Ithaca and Fisher...on natural grass.  I believe Stevens has the best home field advantage in the league.  I don't know much about the liberty although Clarkson looks legit and played what appeared the best schedule (no Bard, no Skidmore) in league.  I don't see Rochester but they did beat my Bombers twice...although this is not a typical Ithaca club.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 05, 2015, 01:16:08 pm
The upcoming regional rankings will tell the story as to who may or may not be in contention. I'm curious to see where teams will fall after this past weekend.

In terms of the Pool B outlook, I would say that Stevens and St. John Fisher are competing with Wash. U and Emory on the national level. Stevens has a middling SOS (104) but a decent enough record (27-13) along with a series sweep of St. John Fisher. For me, the head-to-head result goes a long way. St. John Fisher has a much better SOS (36) and playing Cortland, the regional number one, will only help that.

Stevens' loss to Rutgers-Camden yesterday does not help their cause. It may come down to what happens in the conference tournament this weekend in Utica.

At this point, the postseason is going on right now for St. John Fisher with six games in the next six days. The Cardinals beat R.I.T. yesterday, host Brockport today and then tangle with Cortland on Wednesday before heading right into the Empire 8 tournament on Thursday morning at 10:00 AM against an improved Utica club.

Ithaca earned the top seed in the Empire 8 tournament and the Bombers are 17-14. The injury to Prendergast in the season opener in California was devastating and injuries at times to some of the other pitchers haven't helped.

Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DucksBB on May 05, 2015, 02:45:22 pm
Bombsquad, you say SJF has the best pitching you've seen and I don't disagree, but will they have enough to get by Brockport and Cortland and yet still have enough in the tank for the E8 tournament?  I would think they would need to go for the Brock and Cort wins over the E8 tournament.  But all are important.  As for Stevens, we've hurt ourselves losing game 2 to Ithaca (lost a 3 run lead in 9th) and yesterday's loss to Rutgers Camden.  The next 5 days will be interesting......
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Bombsquad on May 05, 2015, 04:08:30 pm
Hard to say.  Brockport I believe is done after today so who knows how they will play.  In Cortland's case they are already in, nothing to gain or lose, it would be interesting to see what they do from a pitching standpoint.  Stevens wins the tourney, that gets them 30 wins, have to be considered.  After watching Ithaca and SJFC that last couple of years get passed by, the lack of bids always an issue, I don't know about any at large chances...including Oswego.  But, both Fisher and Stevens have stepped up their SOS and should get some recognition for that.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 05, 2015, 04:44:12 pm
Hard to say.  Brockport I believe is done after today so who knows how they will play.  In Cortland's case they are already in, nothing to gain or lose, it would be interesting to see what they do from a pitching standpoint.  Stevens wins the tourney, that gets them 30 wins, have to be considered.  After watching Ithaca and SJFC that last couple of years get passed by, the lack of bids always an issue, I don't know about any at large chances...including Oswego.  But, both Fisher and Stevens have stepped up their SOS and should get some recognition for that.

Fisher already ahead of Brockport, 5-2, in the early going.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Bombsquad on May 05, 2015, 09:02:39 pm
Well, Fisher beats Brockport 18-4.  Moves them to 22-17.  So I am checking the E8 website for tournament information and they have the seeds listed.  How is Ithaca number 1?  I checked the league standings and unless I am reading it wrong, Stevens had the best record with only 4 losses and Fisher and Ithaca had 5 with a Fisher sweep of Ithaca.  Stevens draws Houghton who has a really good pitcher.  Strange but I am sure I am missing something.  Was Utica also predetermined for a site?  If Ithaca is number one, why wouldn't they host? 
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: jdex on May 06, 2015, 09:42:36 am
Bombsquad, following from Fisher website. As far as site, assume was predetermined:

The seeding for the tournament is now set. It is based on conference record and, if tied head-to-head amongst tied teams, head-to-head result. Since Canton joined as an affiliate in January 2015, they were not able to play all teams, so the conference office used their result vs Utica to get a sense of where they may be seeded and then looked at common opponents of teams in that seeding range. NOTE: Some teams opted to play one another four times. The fourth game did not count towards evaluation as the conference schedule was three games and those who opted to play four would have an inequitable evaluation compared to their peers.

Seedings
1. Ithaca (11-4)
2. Stevens (11-4)
3. St. John Fisher (10-5)
4. Utica (7-8, 2-0 v Canton)
5. Houghton (4-11)
6. Elmira (2-13)
6. Canton (0-2)
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Bombsquad on May 06, 2015, 11:10:10 am
Interesting.. but that clears it up.  Thanks Jdex.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: sjfcards on May 07, 2015, 05:56:09 am
Hard to say.  Brockport I believe is done after today so who knows how they will play.  In Cortland's case they are already in, nothing to gain or lose, it would be interesting to see what they do from a pitching standpoint.  Stevens wins the tourney, that gets them 30 wins, have to be considered.  After watching Ithaca and SJFC that last couple of years get passed by, the lack of bids always an issue, I don't know about any at large chances...including Oswego.  But, both Fisher and Stevens have stepped up their SOS and should get some recognition for that.

Can someone help me out and give an honest assessment of Fisher's chances of making a regional? I don't follow baseball as closely as basketball or football and to be honest I wrote this team off early on. However, with this past week (wins over RIT, Brockport, and Cortland) I am assuming they will move up in the regional rankings, and I saw one post that said they may get in. It just seems crazy to me with the number of losses compared to previous years.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Bombsquad on May 07, 2015, 08:10:48 am
I think why they are in the discussion is because of their overall schedule strength.  Kind of like the Baldwin Wallace situation last season.  The schedule they played certainly is among the best in the country and the region.  It gets confusing to me as well.  I coached a kid that played there and they are under the belief that they have a top 10-20 schedule strength, the D3 SOS is not the same...I have no idea what the formula is.  Obviously after last season and a few other 30 win seasons that didn't get that program in, they took the schedule up.  They also popped into the last region ranking with just an 18-16 record.  If they run the table it puts them at 26-17 and in the discussion one would think.  They are 17-3 in the last 20 games, another important stat.  Question is would New York get two at large teams with Oswego looking at a bid as well.  I would think not, but, who knows what the actual committee comes up with. 
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: sjfcards on May 07, 2015, 09:24:54 am
I think why they are in the discussion is because of their overall schedule strength.  Kind of like the Baldwin Wallace situation last season.  The schedule they played certainly is among the best in the country and the region.  It gets confusing to me as well.  I coached a kid that played there and they are under the belief that they have a top 10-20 schedule strength, the D3 SOS is not the same...I have no idea what the formula is.  Obviously after last season and a few other 30 win seasons that didn't get that program in, they took the schedule up.  They also popped into the last region ranking with just an 18-16 record.  If they run the table it puts them at 26-17 and in the discussion one would think.  They are 17-3 in the last 20 games, another important stat.  Question is would New York get two at large teams with Oswego looking at a bid as well.  I would think not, but, who knows what the actual committee comes up with.

This is what confuses me about the process. In the past couple seasons there have been a few where I thought Fisher was a lock, and they were shut out (last year). I get there are a lot of variables like other SOS, opponents record, etc. but this team in a down year for the E8?

I am glad they have a shot, don't get me wrong. If nothing else it will make this weekends tournament much more interesting for me.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Bombsquad on May 07, 2015, 03:36:15 pm
I am certainly no expert on this situation!!  It is certainly possible that no Empire 8 team gets in.  I thought Stevens was pretty good for a bit but not sure....
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: jdex on May 07, 2015, 07:14:46 pm
Latest NCAA regional ranking:

New York   
1 SUNY Cortland 36-3-0 
2 Oswego St. 27-11-0 
3 Clarkson 23-7-0 
4 Stevens 27-12-0
5 St. John Fisher 20-17-0
6 Old Westbury 25-9-0 

The easy answer as to Empire 8 quandary over selection process .......they don't yet have an automatic invite to the champion. And other  slots to non-automatic picks are limited on a national scale

Empire 8 tourney: Fisher 6, Utica 1 with five-run eighth inning; Stevens 4, Houghton 2; Ithaca 19, Canton 9.  Fisher vs. Stevens Friday afternoon

Liberty League tourney: Clarkson 17, Rochester 1; RIT 10, RPI 8
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Bombsquad on May 07, 2015, 08:07:55 pm
Nothing for nothing, with all of this at large talk, Clarkson has quietly had a great season.  They haven't played as many games as some of the other teams but 24-7 is 24-7.  And they just absolutely hammered Rochester today.  The Liberty is traditionally a one bid league but Clarkson would at worst end up 24-9 and most of that in the region.  Nice season for that team.  Stevens and Fisher tomorrow...if either team has designs on an at large they must win that one.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 08, 2015, 10:50:16 am
Already underway at just about 11:00 AM....

RPI 5 Rochester 1 - 5th, Liberty League Elimination Game
Utica 1 Ithaca 0 - 3rd, Empire 8 Round Robin (Murnane Field)
Canton 3 Houghton 0 - 4th, Empire 8 Round Robin (Utica College)

Later today...
Clarkson vs RIT - Liberty League Winners Bracket Final
Stevens vs St John Fisher - Empire 8 Round Robin
SUNY Poly opens the NEAC tournament at home versus Penn College*
*If SUNY Poly wins the NEAC, the Wildcats will likely be placed in the Auburn regional.

12:00 PM Edit
FINAL - RPI 11 Rochester 7 - Liberty League Elimination Game, UR eliminated
*RPI will play the loser of RIT/Clarkson today around 4:30 PM in Troy.
Utica 4 Ithaca 3 - Top 8, Empire 8 Round Robin
Canton 6 Houghton 0 - Top 9, Empire 8 Round Robin

1:15 PM Edit
FINAL - Ithaca 9 Utica 4 (10) - Empire 8 Round Robin
FINAL - Canton 6 Houghton 0 - Empire 8 Round Robin

In the Empire 8 tournament
*Ithaca (2-0) advances to Saturday's 10:00 AM championship game to meet the winner of St. John Fisher (1-0)/Stevens (1-0)
*Canton (1-1) advances to Saturday's 1:00 PM third-place game to meet the loser of St. John Fisher/Stevens
*Utica (0-2) and Houghton (0-2) play the fifth place game this afternoon.

The championship game is just that, one game. Both title game and third place game will be played at Utica College's baseball field.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 08, 2015, 02:56:26 pm
Afternoon games underway.

RIT 4 Clarkson 1 - Top 8, Liberty League Winners' Bracket Final
Stevens 3 St. John Fisher 1, Top 3, Empire 8 Round Robin
Utica 3 Houghton 2, Top 3, Empire 8 Round Robin

FINAL - Penn College 3 SUNY Poly 2, NEAC 1st Round.
*SUNY Poly is the only NY region team in the NEAC tournament of the four.

One more game left for later. Either RIT or Clarkson will have to turn around quickly and meet RPI in the losers' bracket final in the Liberty tournament.

3:53 PM update

FINAL - RIT 9 Clarkson 5 - Liberty League
RIT advances to the Liberty League championship round against the winner of Clarkson vs. RPI elimination game. 'Tute vs. Tech begins around 4:30 PM.

Top 6 - Stevens 6 St. John Fisher 4, Empire 8 Round Robin*
*St. John Fisher is the home team.

Top 6 - Houghton 8 Utica 3, Empire 8 Round Robin
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 09, 2015, 09:12:04 am
Today's title games..

Liberty League
R.I.T. vs. R.P.I. - 11:00 AM
*Engineers must win twice to earn the automatic bid

Empire 8
Championship Game - Ithaca vs. Stevens - 10:00 AM
Third Place Game - St John Fisher vs. SUNY Canton

Stevens beat St. John Fisher, 9-8, in 10 innings on Friday night to advance to the E8 title game. Stevens 4-0 this season against St. John Fisher. The Ithaca-Stevens winner does not earn an automatic bid.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 09, 2015, 01:59:02 pm
Empire 8
FINAL - Ithaca 12 Stevens 4.

Stevens finishes at 29-14. Ithaca finishes at 20-14.

Liberty League
FINAL - R.P.I. 13 R.I.T. 9

RPI forces a winner-take-all game for the Liberty League title. Liberty tournament being played at R.P.I.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 09, 2015, 05:17:10 pm
FINAL - Rensselaer 10 Rochester Tech 5

Rensselaer wins the Liberty League championship and the automatic bid. The Engineers are likely headed to Auburn to join Old Westbury and SUNY Cortland.

FINAL - St. John Fisher 9 SUNY Canton 4.

New York Pool A Qualifiers
SUNYAC - SUNY Cortland
Skyline - Old Westbury
Liberty League - Rensselaer

Possible Pool B teams
Stevens (29-14)
St. John Fisher (25-18)

Possible Pool C teams
Oswego State (27-11)
Clarkson (24-9)

Depending on what happens elsewhere around the country, Oswego State looks to have a really good shot at a Pool C bid. The Lakers were second in the regional rankings released this past Thursday and I do not see them dropping from that spot. Clarkson went 1-2 in the Liberty League tournament though they still have an outside shot at a Pool C.

For Pool B, Stevens is definitely in the national discussion along with Emory and Wash. U. Emory finished 26-12 while Wash. U at the moment is 32-14 with one game remaining later today against conference foe Chicago. The Eagles and the Bears both in the top 50 nationally in strength of schedule while Stevens is around 100. It's a tough choice and it looks like there will be three teams for two spots. St. John Fisher had a great finish to the season and beat Cortland but four losses head-to-head against Stevens keep them out of the discussion for me despite a terrific SOS. Kudos to Brandon Potter for the run his team made down the stretch. 
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on May 11, 2015, 11:35:04 am
Thoughts on the NY Regional and seedings? It's always interesting to see who gets moved and to which region. I feel like there was a lot of movement to other regions this year, not just the NY Regional.

Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Bombsquad on May 11, 2015, 05:00:04 pm
Solid, minus Amherst....I just don't get that one at all...I didn't even think they would get in.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DucksBB on May 18, 2015, 01:45:12 pm
All Region Teams were just announced....

http://www.d3baseball.com/awards/all-region/2015/new-york

As a Duck supporter, very happy one of our own was named Player of Year.  Congrats to Jayson Yano on a great year!
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on January 26, 2016, 09:34:27 am
With most spring seasons in the NY Region about to get started, or starting this week, hoping to start the early talks about who's hot and not in 2016. I look forward to outlooks and perspectives!

#   School (1st votes)        2015    Pts   Prev.
1   Cortland State (23)       45-4     622   1
2   UW-La Crosse               36-16   537   3
3   Emory                           31-15   508   6
4   Salisbury                       33-6-1  501   5
5   Kean                              35-12   442   11
6   Webster                         34-15   415   8
7   Trinity (Texas) (1)         40-14   414   4
8   Birmingham-Southern   37-12-1  396   10
9   UW-Whitewater              35-11   372   9
10   Frostburg State (1)     43-9      370   2
11   Rhodes                        33-13   342   13
12   Heidelberg                    33-14   286   14
13   UW-Stevens Point        33-14   277   12
14   Linfield                         33-15   245   15
15   Southern Maine           32-15   225   rv
16   Shenandoah                28-10-1   216   16
17   Pacific Lutheran           32-14   193   17
18   Ramapo                       33-16   185   8
19   Baldwin Wallace           31-12   183   20
20   Wartburg                     33-14   153   21
21   Wooster                      36-9     150   24
22   Texas-Tyler                 34-12   140   19
23   Methodist                   32-10   125   22
24   Marietta                      29-18   108   rv
25   Alvernia                      35-14   61   18
 

Others receiving votes: Misericordia 57, Cal Lutheran 54, Ohio Northern 50, Mary Washington 45, St. Thomas (Minn.) 41, Coe 40, Concordia-Texas 37, Concordia (Ill.), Johns Hopkins 25, Carthage 25, Adrian 24, La Roche 23, Mitchell 22, Thomas More 21, Millsaps 21, Keystone 19, MIT 15, Stevens Institute 12, St. Scholastica 12, Randolph-Macon 11, Huntingdon 8, Wesleyan (Conn.) 8, Ohio Wesleyan 6, Anderson 5, DeSales 5, Endicott 5, Eastern Conn. St. 3, Wis.-Oshkosh 3, Rensselaer 2, Redlands 2, Clarkson 1, Rose-Hulman 1, Rutgers-Camden 1, Salem St. 1, Southwestern (Tex.) 1


I think it's obvious so predict Cortland will be a contender and early favorite for the NY Regional, if not national contender. Anyone feel differently?

Stevens, Clarkson, and RPI received votes, but no other representation in the NY Region. I'm confident Oswego, Ithaca, St. John Fisher, and Old Westbury will all be very competitive. Thoughts?

Any possible surprises? RIT? Farmingdale? St. Joseph's-LI? U.Rochester?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Bishopleftiesdad on January 26, 2016, 11:24:53 am
I am kind of surprised to see that St. John Fisher is not getting any votes. I do not mean they should be top 25. But I expected them to possibly receive a couple of votes. I know Fisher started out slow last season but got much better as the year went on.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 26, 2016, 02:28:05 pm
+1! Thanks for starting up the boards. It is a beautiful day in east Texas. Temp may hit 70 today!

Let's play two!   ;)
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on January 26, 2016, 03:24:10 pm
I am kind of surprised to see that St. John Fisher is not getting any votes. I do not mean they should be top 25. But I expected them to possibly receive a couple of votes. I know Fisher started out slow last season but got much better as the year went on.

I had the same thought, especially with a small SR class in 2015. Fisher usually has a couple transfers who come in each year and contribute so it's possible that they begin the year under the radar.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Bombers798891 on January 26, 2016, 04:03:14 pm
I am kind of surprised to see that St. John Fisher is not getting any votes. I do not mean they should be top 25. But I expected them to possibly receive a couple of votes. I know Fisher started out slow last season but got much better as the year went on.

Well, 25-18 isn't anything to write home about.

I mean, they got better after starting 6-14, but that's in part because they played well teams like Elmira, Houghton, Utica,  and Ithaca.

You've got Keystone getting 19 points, and Keystone beat them twice. Stevens is getting 12 points, and Fisher went 0-4 against them last year, Ohio Wesleyan with 6 also beat them.

The potential angle is well-founded, but we can't just assume guys will get better. Look what happened to IC in 2014. They thought they'd have back a lot of talent from the 2013 team that nearly won it all, (7 of the 9 main hitters, four of the six main pitchers). But one guy goes pro, another leaves the team for personal reasons, three of the four pitchers post higher ERAs, and two of the hitters lose 89 and 72 points off their average. Ithaca goes from 41-8 to 26-10.

I don't see anything wrong with asking a team like Fisher—which lost most of the games they played against better teams—to prove it
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DucksBB on January 26, 2016, 05:34:39 pm
If I can speak for Stevens.....IC and SJF are always solid and tough.  It will be a good conference competition.  As for the pre-season poll, we're very happy to be receiving some notice, it's been a long time coming.  We even had one of our own named a pre-season AA 1st teamer.  The Ducks are an senior heavy team.  We had 18 recruits in when these seniors were freshmen and now is their time to show what 3 years of seasoning can do.  The pitching is very solid and the line-up will be the most balanced we've had since I've been watching.  Lost a few pieces to graduation but no more than other schools.  Should be alot of fun.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on January 28, 2016, 09:10:11 am
Is it now a 3-team race at the top of the E8? For years it was Fisher and Ithaca battling for the top spot. Can Stevens now be considered a true contender in the E8?

Fisher seems to have a couple transfers each season as well. Any word on new additions other than freshmen?

Ithaca has Prendergast returning after injuring his arm in his first game of the 2015 season. Did he have TJ surgery and is he healthy?

Stevens looks like they graduated 14 starts in the pitching staff, but have 3 SP returning (combined 27 starts) each with an ERA below 2.10.

There could be a lot of noise made in the Empire 8 this year!
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Bombers798891 on January 28, 2016, 11:59:34 am
Ithaca is a mixed bag. They graduated a lot of pitching.

Prendergast is the big question mark I think. But Diorio and Parkes need to improve. Ryan Cotegni is intriguing (1.90 ERA in 19 IP)

The team returns most of its best hitters, but they need to improve across the board if they want to compete.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DucksBB on January 28, 2016, 12:40:17 pm
Yes, Stevens lost 14 starts but replacement should be seamless since our strong lefty, Jakusik, was out all year and returns this season.  He played in the Northwoods over the summer to help work himself back into the groove.  Lost 3 bats out of the starting line-up but the main hitters and table setters return.  Some good new additions should contribute well.

Like I said before, it will be fun competition.  Can always expect SJF and IC to reload well.  They always do.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on February 02, 2016, 10:16:34 am
What other teams in the NY Region will be equipped to contend with Cortland for the Regional Title? Oswego? Stevens? RPI? Clarkson? Rochester?

Now that Phil didn't see his shadow, spring can continue!
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: NYbaseballguy on February 03, 2016, 05:39:17 pm
I will take a shot at this.  First timer!  I will obviously go with Cortland in the SUNYAC.  For the next 30 years.  No offense to anyone else, especially Oswego but this may be the most one sided conference in the country in terms of the preseason favorite year in and year out.  Liberty League is a tough one.  I will take the Rochester teams and Clarkson.  Union maybe.  No clue.  Stevens and Fisher in the Empire 8.  Ithaca just didn't look good when I saw them last spring.  Fisher gets those teams at home, returns the rotation, I will take them by a nose over Stevens.  No clue about the other league down by the city.  Farmingdale?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Jim Dixon on February 09, 2016, 08:19:43 pm
I will take a shot at this.  First timer!  I will obviously go with Cortland in the SUNYAC.  For the next 30 years.  No offense to anyone else, especially Oswego but this may be the most one sided conference in the country in terms of the preseason favorite year in and year out.  Liberty League is a tough one.  I will take the Rochester teams and Clarkson.  Union maybe.  No clue.  Stevens and Fisher in the Empire 8.  Ithaca just didn't look good when I saw them last spring.  Fisher gets those teams at home, returns the rotation, I will take them by a nose over Stevens.  No clue about the other league down by the city.  Farmingdale?

Cortland winning the SUNYAC is just the third most one-sided conference.  Webster and St. Scholastica are automatic locks nearly every year.  At least Cortland gets pushed by someone.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on February 10, 2016, 10:30:43 am
Over the past 5 years, 3 games have been the closest difference twice between Cortland and 2nd place (Oswego in 2013 & 2015). None of the other 5 teams have challenged Cortland for a while.

Hard to believe that there are other conferences that more one-sided with a conference champion!
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: NYbaseballguy on February 10, 2016, 10:34:05 am
I agree!!  Thanks to Mr. Dixon for finding a couple other programs who enjoy that type of dominance.  Us snowbirds here in NY don't have a lot of info. on those teams.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DucksBB on February 19, 2016, 09:26:29 pm
Stevens with a big win today over #6 Kean University 3-2 in 10 innings at Kean.  Great pitching on both sides.....nothing but zeroes posted after the second inning until the tenth.  Ducks pitchers allow 3 infield hits and no earned runs.  Offense gets 9 hits.  Great season opener!
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2016, 07:47:48 pm
I agree!!  Thanks to Mr. Dixon for finding a couple other programs who enjoy that type of dominance.  Us snowbirds here in NY don't have a lot of info. on those teams.
Welcome NYBaseball guy.

On the front page of d3baseball.com you can find each of the conferences and their schedules.

The website has an incredible wealth of information.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DucksBB on March 09, 2016, 07:12:15 pm
The regional preview finally got released today in case anyone missed it.

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2016/01/preview/newyork-preview
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on March 10, 2016, 09:50:22 am
The regional preview finally got released today in case anyone missed it.

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2016/01/preview/newyork-preview

Hey guys....Sorry, was super busy and didn't have time to sit and write. The last month or so has been really hectic. We're currently adding individual conference previews as well to the main New York preview.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on March 24, 2016, 10:38:19 am
Many NY Region teams have played a dozen games or more, here are my thoughts on a VERY EARLY regional ranking up to this point:

1. Cortland (15-3)
2. Brockport (12-5)
3. Oswego (11-3)
4. St. John Fisher (8-6)
5. Stevens (7-8)
6. Old Westbury (11-6)

Most conferences will start league play this weekend, if not started already, so more can be determined moving forward.

Other thoughts or input?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on March 24, 2016, 04:24:08 pm
Many NY Region teams have played a dozen games or more, here are my thoughts on a VERY EARLY regional ranking up to this point:

1. Cortland (15-3)
2. Brockport (12-5)
3. Oswego (11-3)
4. St. John Fisher (8-6)
5. Stevens (7-8)
6. Old Westbury (11-6)


No real issue with this. It's still fairly early.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: jdex on March 24, 2016, 04:46:34 pm
Many NY Region teams have played a dozen games or more, here are my thoughts on a VERY EARLY regional ranking up to this point:

1. Cortland (15-3)
2. Brockport (12-5)
3. Oswego (11-3)
4. St. John Fisher (8-6)
5. Stevens (7-8)
6. Old Westbury (11-6)

Most conferences will start league play this weekend, if not started already, so more can be determined moving forward.

Other thoughts or input?

Actually have no problem with top five  .... Stevens No. 5 fine ....

OK with top four at the moment but would reverse Bport and Oswego. Yes, we know, Oswego 1-2 in the conference, Bport 3-0. Tough to figure Oswego dropping a pair (and the first pair at that) to Fredonia before romping in  the third series game. Just as surprising of course was Cortland going 1-for-3 vs. New Paltz. Oswego gives the appearance of hitting its stride early, Cortland not so much. And we have more questions about CSt than OSt.

As for No. 5? A mess of possibilities although none match Old Westbury's 11 wins vs. a so-so slate. OW just lost this week to 6-9 Baruch after two easy wins over the same club to start the season. And did anyone else do a double-take over RIT's 15-inning win over highly regarded Southern Maine. Not that RIT has been any great shakes at all. And UR edging Brockport. Could be just that kind of a season.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: NYbaseballguy on March 24, 2016, 07:40:40 pm
A very fair assessment of the top teams in the region... Don't forget, RIT was a couple innings away from winning the Liberty League last year.  Cortland and Fisher have ducked no one...and Brockport, Stevens and Oswego can pretty much say the same.  This region is VERY competitive nationally right now.  I would throw Union in there at 5 or 6.  Their ace is very good and they would have to be considered the favorite to win the LL this year.  But, all in all, that's a good list.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on March 25, 2016, 10:58:17 am
Yes, my thoughts on the top 6 were based on their overall record along with who they have won/loss to up to this point. Without using any formulas or algorithms, it was a list put together based on what was visible on the surface.

A lot more will play out as conferences begin and continue league play.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: NYbaseballguy on April 18, 2016, 10:23:07 am
We have a pretty good sample size now for the region..here is my rankings, have at it.
1. Oswego St.
2. Cortland St.
3. St. John Fisher

I think these three have separated themselves.  Honestly, I think you could put them in a hat at this point.  Cortland looks vulnerable but with that said, they pulled a couple rabbits out their hats last year in the regional and catapulted to a national championship.  I think Fisher could easily come out of this region as well...they are beating people up pretty good right now and have played a real good schedule.

After that... Union, Stevens, whoever comes out of the downstate league, Rochester, RIT, Brockport, Ithaca and maybe New Paltz but they had a rough weekend.  All these teams are dangerous and have enough pitching to win games. Union looks particularly interesting with the ace Fischman...he struck out 18 at U of Rochester this weekend.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on April 26, 2016, 12:14:15 pm
One week late...additional thoughts on the first Regional Rankings?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 28, 2016, 08:58:02 am
With the rankings coming out later today, I'll take a stab at this...

1. SUNY Cortland
2. Oswego State
3. St. John Fisher
4. Stevens
5. Clarkson
T6. Farmingdale State
T6. Ithaca
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 28, 2016, 05:03:27 pm
Looks like I was pretty close. No real surprises. Farmingdale or Old Westbury may sneak into the bottom as we get closer to the regionals.

New York Region         
1   SUNY Cortland   31-5-0 ( 0.861)   31-5-0 ( 0.861)
2   Oswego St.   24-7-0 ( 0.774)   25-7-0 ( 0.781)
3   St. John Fisher   23-8-0 ( 0.742)   23-8-0 ( 0.742)
4   Stevens   21-13-0 ( 0.618)   21-13-0 ( 0.618)
5   Ithaca   19-12-0 ( 0.613)   19-12-0 ( 0.613)
6   Brockport   18-15-0 ( 0.545)   18-15-0 ( 0.545)

Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Jack Parkman on April 28, 2016, 05:48:37 pm
Looks like I was pretty close. No real surprises. Farmingdale or Old Westbury may sneak into the bottom as we get closer to the regionals.

New York Region         
1   SUNY Cortland   31-5-0 ( 0.861)   31-5-0 ( 0.861)
2   Oswego St.   24-7-0 ( 0.774)   25-7-0 ( 0.781)
3   St. John Fisher   23-8-0 ( 0.742)   23-8-0 ( 0.742)
4   Stevens   21-13-0 ( 0.618)   21-13-0 ( 0.618)
5   Ithaca   19-12-0 ( 0.613)   19-12-0 ( 0.613)
6   Brockport   18-15-0 ( 0.545)   18-15-0 ( 0.545)

John-  I have little (VERY LITTLE) knowledge of the NY Region and was hoping you could explain how a team that is barely over 500 can be regionally ranked??  Thanks
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on April 28, 2016, 11:16:29 pm
John-  I have little (VERY LITTLE) knowledge of the NY Region and was hoping you could explain how a team that is barely over 500 can be regionally ranked??  Thanks

In the specific case of Brockport, the Golden Eagles have quality wins over Stevens, Kean, Cortland and unranked Liberty League leader Clarkson. Those quality victories and an SOS of 55, even with the large number of losses, get Brockport into the conversation. I had penciled Farmingdale State, the Skyline leader, above Brockport based on overall record though Farmingdale's SOS of 229, which I didn't look up earlier, is extremely poor. FSC does have a win over Kean but 'Port beat Farmingdale head to head. In terms of the regionals however, I believe Farmingdale has a better chance as the Rams are leading their league and I think, at this point, it will come down to them and Old Westbury for the Skyline Conference AQ. Whereas Brockport in the SUNYAC has to go through Cortland and Oswego. I can't see the SUNYAC getting three teams into the tournament unless both Cortland & Oswego are upset in the conference playoffs.

This has been a year in New York where everyone, maybe aside from Cortland, Oswego and Fisher, has beaten up on everyone else. Of the schools outside of those in the top four, the list of teams that could be ranked is extremely short. I would be surprised if more than 4 New York teams end up in the NCAA's.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Jim Dixon on April 29, 2016, 11:11:00 am
Looks like I was pretty close. No real surprises. Farmingdale or Old Westbury may sneak into the bottom as we get closer to the regionals.

New York Region         
1   SUNY Cortland   31-5-0 ( 0.861)   31-5-0 ( 0.861)
2   Oswego St.   24-7-0 ( 0.774)   25-7-0 ( 0.781)
3   St. John Fisher   23-8-0 ( 0.742)   23-8-0 ( 0.742)
4   Stevens   21-13-0 ( 0.618)   21-13-0 ( 0.618)
5   Ithaca   19-12-0 ( 0.613)   19-12-0 ( 0.613)
6   Brockport   18-15-0 ( 0.545)   18-15-0 ( 0.545)

John-  I have little (VERY LITTLE) knowledge of the NY Region and was hoping you could explain how a team that is barely over 500 can be regionally ranked??  Thanks

Six teams have to be listed in the New York regional rankings.  As John said, the backend of the NY regional rankings are soft
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: NYbaseballguy on April 30, 2016, 07:41:02 am
This is spot on.  Brockport should be recognized for the schedule they play.  It's a three team race at the top.  All three would be great to see in a regional.  If Ithaca wants any love at all, they have to get a series sweep at St. John Fisher this weekend. 
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 05, 2016, 10:12:24 am
Don't think there will be any significant changes in the regional rankings this week. I could see either Clarkson or Farmingdale/Old Westbury replacing Ithaca. Other than that, it should be status quo with some leagues wrapping up regular season play this weekend and others into the conference tournament.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: DucksBB on May 05, 2016, 03:03:23 pm
How deep does the committee go into the evaluations??  Since our early season start and Cali trip Stevens has gone 18-5 over their last 23 games...with only 6 of those at home.  Our SOS is solid.  Unfortunately, we lost the Cortland game to rain which would have helped our cause.  I don't expect the regional rankings to change for 1-4 and we sit at #4.  Just hope the region gets some respect come bid time.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 05, 2016, 04:14:08 pm
May 5 New York Regional Rankings

New York Region            
1   SUNY Cortland   34-5-0 ( 0.872)   34-5-0 ( 0.872)   
2   Oswego St.   28-7-0 ( 0.800)   29-7-0 ( 0.806)   
3   St. John Fisher   27-8-0 ( 0.771)   27-8-0 ( 0.771)   
4   Stevens   24-13-0 ( 0.649)   24-13-0 ( 0.649)   
5   Ithaca   20-14-0 ( 0.588)   20-14-0 ( 0.588)   
6   Brockport   22-16-0 ( 0.579)   22-16-0 ( 0.579)

Same as last week, no changes.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 11, 2016, 02:39:07 pm
Very quiet here with a big final weekend on tap that includes conference tournaments in the Liberty League and Empire 8.

Right now, the field for Auburn looks like this

Pool A - SUNY Cortland, St. Joseph's College (Long Island), Liberty League AQ (Union, Rochester, Clarkson, RPI)

Potential at-large bids include Oswego State (Pool C), St. John Fisher (Pool B/C) and Stevens (Pool B/C). Both Brockport and Ithaca will most likely be regionally ranked tomorrow but I don't think either has a good enough resume to move past Fisher or Stevens.

Stevens picked up a big win on Sunday over New England regionally-ranked Amherst. It could come down to the Empire 8 tournament with the winner, if it's Fisher or Stevens, knocking the other out of NCAA tournament contention. The winner won't be guaranteed a spot, just my guess. I can't see both in the field. Right now, Fisher is still ranked ahead of Stevens but depending on what happens this weekend, that could flip-flop the two in the final pre-tournament ranking. Stevens at least has an edge in SOS, 42 to 86.

And as a reminder, the region itself is not guaranteed any number of spots into the field. Oswego, Fisher, Stevens etc will be competing against teams around the nation to try and earn one of the 16 at-large spots.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on May 13, 2016, 11:28:58 am
The last set of regional rankings we'll see. Records shown do not include yesterday's games.

New York Region                  
1   SUNY Cortland   37-5-0 ( 0.881)   37-5-0 ( 0.881)         
2   Oswego St.   31-9-0 ( 0.775)   32-9-0 ( 0.780)         
3   St. John Fisher   30-9-0 ( 0.769)   30-9-0 ( 0.769)         
4   Stevens   26-13-0 ( 0.667)   26-13-0 ( 0.667)         
5   Ithaca   24-14-0 ( 0.632)   24-14-0 ( 0.632)         
6   Brockport   23-19-0 ( 0.548)   23-19-0 ( 0.548)   
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: NYbaseballguy on May 16, 2016, 10:11:42 am
Well, the teams I thought would get in got in.  However, where they are playing is a totally different animal.  Oswego and Fisher get shipped out of NY.  Why, I have no idea.  Both teams literally an hour from Auburn NY at most and go to PA and Conn.  Yet, Frostburg, Ramapo and Susquehanna end up in NY.  Very confusing.  So much for travel considerations LOL.  And, for the folks that like to follow D3 baseball in NY, the region gets awarded 6 teams and only three stay in region.  Lots of shifting and in my view unnecessary travel.  Oswego to me gets particularly hosed a bit here.  That's a tough 8 teamer over there and although they are the 2 seed they get traditionally strong East. Conn as a 7 seed.  Suffolk is a very good 5 seed there.  On the flip side, Ramapo, who was number one for a time this year runs into Union as Fischman.  After that, I love Cortland to get through NY again. 
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: NYbaseballguy on May 17, 2016, 01:47:31 pm
Let's have some fun here!  I will start the regional picks..nothing but online bragging rights to the winners:
NY: CORLTAND, best draw in sometime. Ramapo could easily lose first game to Union, this regional is weakest in my eyes.
Mid Atlantic: UMASS Boston, I want to pick Fisher and think they can win this but I am going with a longshot here.
South: Birmingham Southern, tough region, all six teams are good. I still can't believe Marietta was shipped here.
Central: Wisc. Whitewater, simply because of the differences in first game.  Rose Hulman is a tough team for Wartburg
Mideast: Randolph Macon, this region is also very good at top, top four could all come out here.
Midwest: UW Lacrosse, and that gives me two teams from same league in world series.
New England: Wheaton, but I think Oswego has a real shot here, as does Suffolk
West: Trinity, and my pick to win the whole thing

It would be nice to see Cortland, Oswego and Fisher in the world series and of course we all will be rooting for that.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: NYbaseballguy on May 18, 2016, 11:17:50 pm
Cortland winner...Fisher winner...Union has lead into ninth and bullpen can't hold. Fischman dominant again.  Oswego tied up late with East Conn. The video with the East. Conn vs Oswego game is great. Fisher regional has number one seed go down.  I had the chance to see games at Auburn...like Cortland's chances but Ramapo dodged a big bullet and can ride that momentum..Great time of year!
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: NYbaseballguy on May 19, 2016, 11:48:08 pm
Digging a lot of my picks!!  And, I want to change my Umass Boston pick.  Fisher is rolling and let's get them through this game.  I can't see any team in this regional beating them twice if it comes to that.  Impressive right now.  The ole NY region is being represented well right now.  Cortland gets anticipated matchup with Ramapo. Oswego will still be a tough out in that regional. 
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: NYbaseballguy on May 20, 2016, 10:06:39 am
sjfcards...where are you?  This board has gone silent with a team making a run here!!  Nine in the 8th..wow.  Were you at the game?  The video feed is average at best.  Umass Boston today who looks like a good matchup.  Cortland and Fisher have control of their regions. Not bad for a state where weather is bad, you can't play baseball, etc...
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: D3SportsFan on February 13, 2017, 02:16:06 pm
Is there a timeline for the New York Region preview to be released?
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: Jim Dixon on February 17, 2017, 10:44:47 am
Is there a timeline for the New York Region preview to be released?

Next week.
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on February 21, 2017, 08:29:37 am
New York Region preview posted here. Sorry for the delay.

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2017/01/preview/newyork-preview
Title: Re: BB: General NY Region Talk
Post by: John McGraw on March 29, 2018, 12:48:21 pm
Early season thoughts for 2018....

The weather has been, as it usually is, awful. A few big league series this weekend - RIT/Union and Ithaca/St. John Fisher - hopefully will not be impacted by the rain/snow expected in upstate New York on Saturday/Sunday. Pretty sure though because of the holiday on Sunday that a lot of teams are looking at Friday/Saturday sets as opposed to the usual Saturday/Sunday.

Also downstate, NYU is 15-1 at last check and the Violets host perennial Pool B favorite Wash U this weekend at MCU Park in Brooklyn. Didn't realize these two were rained out in St Louis last year - thanks CespedesBBQ.

More thoughts after the weekend.