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D3baseball.com => National topics => Awards => Topic started by: Jim Dixon on January 17, 2008, 07:41:31 pm

Title: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 17, 2008, 07:41:31 pm
2008 D3baseball.com Preseason All-American Team

First Team       
C   Mike Zaccardo, Cortland State   
1B   Drew Hedman, Pomona-Pitzer   
2B    Ricky Angel, Illinois Wesleyan   
3B   Derek David, McMurry   
SS    Adam Frost, St. Norbert   
OF   Marc Blakeley, Augustana   
OF   Blake Eller, St. Scholastica   
OF   Hunter Owen, Millsaps   
DH   Brad Ketterer, Thomas More   
UTL   Kurt Yacko, Chapman   
P   Matt Aronson, Illinois Wesleyan   
P   Wayde Kitchens, Chapman   
P   Adam Samson, Wooster   

Second Team         
C   Matthew Pexa, St. Thomas   
1B   Brent Voorhees, McMurry   
2B   Joe Roth, Emory   
3B   Richard Gomez, CCNY   
SS   Jonas Fester, Johns Hopkins   
OF   Bryan Burke, Kean   
OF   Joey McDaniel, Ohio Wesleyan   
OF   Alex Weber-Shapiro, CMS
DH   Nate Nelson, Worcester State   
UTL   Shawn Gilblair, Eastern Conn.   
P   Robert Flanagan, Rhodes   
P   Aaron Saeubling, Wartburg   
P   Ahmed Shelton, Averett   
P   Anthony Trapuzzan, Wooster   

Honorable Mention: C: Brandon Sales, Pacific Lutheran; 1B:   Daniel Vanaman, Rhodes; 2B: Matt Stanziano, Pitt-Greensburg; 3B: Jack Walker, Concordia-Chicago; SS: Luke Enman, St. Joseph’s (Me.); OF: Mitch Kuczek, Transylvania; OF: Michael Sims, LaGrange; P: Dan Remenowsky, Otterbein
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2008, 09:30:45 pm
I notice that only Wooster, McMurry, and IWU have two on the list, but the Scots are both pitchers, while neither of the Indians(?) pitch.  If we can just find a 2 on 2 league, the Titans are in like Flint! ;D
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: rjburke on January 17, 2008, 10:32:55 pm
This is such a big honor for each of these young men. Hope they all have excellent seasons.
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: oldcat on January 18, 2008, 12:26:00 am
I notice that only Wooster, McMurry, and IWU have two on the list, but the Scots are both pitchers, while neither of the Indians(?) pitch.  If we can just find a 2 on 2 league, the Titans are in like Flint! ;D

there are also two chapman players on the first team.
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2008, 12:27:08 am
I missed the Chapman duo of Yacko and Kitchens, who, like Angel and Aronson were both first team.  I guess IWU and Chapman can duke it out in the title game of my (hypothetical) 2 on 2 league. ;)

Note: found my error before reading oldcat's correction as I typed - but thanks anyway! :)
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: oldcat on January 18, 2008, 12:45:43 am
my question is who is the better duo between the chapman guys and the IWU guys.
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: cubs on January 18, 2008, 10:19:44 am
When was the last time that there wasn't a WIAC player on an All American list (Pre-season or Post-season) whether it be 1st, 2nd, or Honorable Mention.  Maybe it hasn't been that long, but it seems like there has been at least one WIAC guy on these lists for the last number (5?) of years (Zimmerman, Maier, Brehm, Jirschele, Reinhard, Endl, Yost, Wiczek, Adamson, Tomasiewicz, Klawitter, Mancuso, Timm, etc..) 

Is the WIAC that down this season?
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: BigPoppa on January 18, 2008, 01:08:50 pm
my question is who is the better duo between the chapman guys and the IWU guys.
I give the nod to the Chapman duo as Yacko(Utility) is a two way player and could be an all-american at either spot alone if he only played one.
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Billy 40 on January 18, 2008, 01:52:49 pm
Who decides on who makes the list? I'd like to thank them for recognizing a player from the CUNY Conference who truly deserved to be included as one of the best players in D3, Rich Gomez. Unfortunately he might not even get an opportunity to play this year since he AD at CCNY has totally screwed up teh program, and tehy do not have a coach yet.

To the rest of the young men who made this team, congratulations. Hopefully we'll see your names on teh Post Season list, and a few of you will have your name lit up in lights when you're called on Draft Day. Good luck!!
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Snare Drum 22 on January 18, 2008, 01:58:10 pm
It looks like Emory third basemen Frank Pfister was snubbed from that list.  He led Emory to the national championship game last year both with his bat and superior fielding.  He set school records last year as a junior and has only gotten stronger in the off season.  Look for him to make a push for an end of the year All-American. 
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: StarvinMarvin on January 18, 2008, 04:08:43 pm
Snare, the Pfister kid is a solid player but let's be realistic.  First of all, where your team ends up at the end of the season should neither help nor hurt a player's chances of being an all-american in my opinion.  Pfister plays third base which along with first base in the infield, power numbers are expected from the corners.  He hit two home runs all year.  He had quite a few doubles, stole some bases, a sub .400 average.  You need gaudy numbers to be considered a pre-season all-american, especially at third base.  I know the kid is solid in the field and third base isn't easy to play but the kid fielded .911 which isn't gold glove material nor superior.  He wasn't an all-american last year and with last years numbers to go by you think he got snubbed?  Not one 3b on any of the all-american teams including honorable mention had less than seven home runs.  Take a look at the first, second and third team 3b numbers and rethink your snub claim.   
 
 
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 18, 2008, 08:11:50 pm
Who decides on who makes the list? I'd like to thank them for recognizing a player from the CUNY Conference who truly deserved to be included as one of the best players in D3, Rich Gomez. Unfortunately he might not even get an opportunity to play this year since he AD at CCNY has totally screwed up teh program, and tehy do not have a coach yet.

To the rest of the young men who made this team, congratulations. Hopefully we'll see your names on teh Post Season list, and a few of you will have your name lit up in lights when you're called on Draft Day. Good luck!!

FYI - The list was determined by a vote of a regionally balanced pool of SIDs and D3baseball.com staff.
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: SamuelAdams on January 18, 2008, 09:32:31 pm
I would have to disagree w/ Marvin. While numbers are the most important factor when determining all-americans, the success of your team can surely help your case. If players have relative statistics, the one whose team reaches Appleton most likely will get the nod, historically. There is a reason why 7 of 8 regional winners had all-americans, just like there is a reason why 1/3 of the all-americans were represented in Appleton. Yes, these players led their teams with great numbers, but more importantly, they had the statistics and the success, especially to get themselves nationally recognized.

Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: StarvinMarvin on January 18, 2008, 09:49:30 pm
You can disagree all you want but what I said was an opinion not a matter of fact.  In my previous post I said: "where your team ends up at the end of the season should neither help nor hurt a player's chances of being an all-american in my opinion."  There's no doubt that the teams who make it to Appleton are more likely to receive AA's and I'm simply disagreeing with team success being a determinant in the selection process.  The individual success of a player shouldn't be slighted/overlooked or boosted because of how his team performs.  If the success of a team is used in helping to determine AA's then the strength of schedule of that team should also be considered.  Some players wouldn't come close to producing their numbers if they were to play in the NJAC for example.
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: dgilblair on January 18, 2008, 10:24:21 pm
I would have to disagree w/ Marvin. While numbers are the most important factor when determining all-americans, the success of your team can surely help your case. If players have relative statistics, the one whose team reaches Appleton most likely will get the nod, historically. There is a reason why 7 of 8 regional winners had all-americans, just like there is a reason why 1/3 of the all-americans were represented in Appleton. Yes, these players led their teams with great numbers, but more importantly, they had the statistics and the success, especially to get themselves nationally recognized.



I tend to agree. Once you get past the top players team success is the next thing you look at.  If A Rod played for the Yankees his entire career imagine how many more awards he might have.     
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: StarvinMarvin on January 18, 2008, 10:52:09 pm
A-Rod won an MVP award with the Rangers when they finished last in their division, so I don't think that's a viable example (no offense).  Therefore was he not deserving of the award because his team had a poor season?  If anything, players who put up numbers on an underachieving team have to work that much harder.  Pitchers might not get the run support and hitters may not have people getting on base in front of them or protection behind them.  As I said previously, team success should neither help or hinder individual awards in my opinion.  This assures objectivity and doesn't punish players for being on bad team.  Post-season awards like World Series MVP or making an All-Tournament Team rewards the best players on the best teams.  That's where team success should have the most influence and the best players on the best teams get their due.   
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2008, 11:13:50 pm
Amen, SM!  Clearly team success DOES affect voting for individual awards, but I don't think it should.  (To me, the most amazing season any MLB pitcher ever had was when Bobby Shantz won 25 games for a team that won 55.)
 
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: dgilblair on January 19, 2008, 10:38:42 am
A-Rod won an MVP award with the Rangers when they finished last in their division, so I don't think that's a viable example (no offense).  Therefore was he not deserving of the award because his team had a poor season?  If anything, players who put up numbers on an underachieving team have to work that much harder.  Pitchers might not get the run support and hitters may not have people getting on base in front of them or protection behind them.  As I said previously, team success should neither help or hinder individual awards in my opinion.  This assures objectivity and doesn't punish players for being on bad team.  Post-season awards like World Series MVP or making an All-Tournament Team rewards the best players on the best teams.  That's where team success should have the most influence and the best players on the best teams get their due.   
 
 
 
 
 


So I take that as a no.  You don't think A Rod would have gotten more recognition (awards) if he played his whole career for NY.  Maybe not.

Stats can be very deceiving.  If you take a very good freshman pitcher for example. His starts are mid week games against lesser quality teams he could end up with a bunch of great stats.   Now if he is on a top notch team and makes it to the tournaments he will have a much better chance of being in the running for an award than being on a club that doesn't make it.  Don't you think? 
 
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: dgilblair on January 19, 2008, 10:49:16 am
Amen, SM!  Clearly team success DOES affect voting for individual awards, but I don't think it should.  (To me, the most amazing season any MLB pitcher ever had was when Bobby Shantz won 25 games for a team that won 55.)
 

He was the MVP that year.  That doesn't happen to often for a pitcher. I think they won a few more than 55 games.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/mvp_cya.shtml
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: mr_b on January 19, 2008, 11:05:38 am
Amen, SM!  Clearly team success DOES affect voting for individual awards, but I don't think it should.  (To me, the most amazing season any MLB pitcher ever had was when Bobby Shantz won 25 games for a team that won 55.)
 

He was the MVP that year.  That doesn't happen to often for a pitcher. I think they won a few more than 55 games.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/mvp_cya.shtml
In 1952, Shantz went 24-7 for an Athletics team that finished 5th with a record of 79-75-1 (yes, a 3-3 tie versus the Tigers ).

The other Cy Young winner in the same mold was Steve Carlton.  He won 27 of the Phillies' 59 games in 1972.  Perhaps that's the season the original poster was thinking about.
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 19, 2008, 11:34:24 am
Amen, SM!  Clearly team success DOES affect voting for individual awards, but I don't think it should.  (To me, the most amazing season any MLB pitcher ever had was when Bobby Shantz won 25 games for a team that won 55.)
 

He was the MVP that year.  That doesn't happen to often for a pitcher. I think they won a few more than 55 games.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/mvp_cya.shtml
Fifty-six years later, would sophisticated sports medicine diagnose major damage to Bobby Shantz' (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/shantbo01.shtml) arm because of his workload during that year?

That was during the era of the Reserve Clause.  (How much different was baseball before the Reserve Clause?)

The 1952 A's went 79-75 and finished 4th in the 8-team AL, 16 games behind the Yankees.
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 19, 2008, 12:39:11 pm
One factor that has yet to be mentioned why there are those All-Americans in Appleton is that because of the success of a few players, the team is there.  Take away a team's all-american player and they might not be there.

I only know the process I go through to select a list of All-Americans and I expect it is a little different than any other voter.   (an aside: If we all voted the same, I would make unilateral decisions but I have rarely seen an voter's All-American Ballot agree completely with another.)

You only have to look at the Championship where the MVP went to Zimmermann on a third place team (the second time the MVP was not on the Championship team) to know that it was the performance that was rewarded.  If there were too comparable players, the nod certainly would go to the team who placed better.

In Zimmermann's and A-Rod's cases, they were both clearly the superior player but if another player was comparable on a team that did much better than theirs, I would expect that in this case the team's performance would be the deciding factor.
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 19, 2008, 12:41:07 pm
To see the press release with stats for the preseason team see:

http://www.d3baseball.com/all-american/preseason2008.pdf

Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2008, 02:14:30 pm
Amen, SM!  Clearly team success DOES affect voting for individual awards, but I don't think it should.  (To me, the most amazing season any MLB pitcher ever had was when Bobby Shantz won 25 games for a team that won 55.)
 

He was the MVP that year.  That doesn't happen to often for a pitcher. I think they won a few more than 55 games.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/mvp_cya.shtml
In 1952, Shantz went 24-7 for an Athletics team that finished 5th with a record of 79-75-1 (yes, a 3-3 tie versus the Tigers ).

The other Cy Young winner in the same mold was Steve Carlton.  He won 27 of the Phillies' 59 games in 1972.  Perhaps that's the season the original poster was thinking about.

Kind of you to offer me a graceful 'out', but I confess I was recounting what I've 'remembered' about Shantz's season nearly my whole life. :-[  (Another childhood memory destroyed by mere fact, but cut me some slack - I was only 4 at the time! :P)

Well, with Shantz gone (how my memory went from 24 to 25 wins I don't know, but the 55 presumably came from hearing the number of games all the othe Phil's pitchers combined to win), I suppose I can join the 'real' world in debating whether the best pitching season would be Carlton in '72 or Gibson in '68!
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: StarvinMarvin on January 19, 2008, 04:53:52 pm
A Most Valuable Player award goes to the player who was the most valuable to his team.  It might be a player who made his team that much better or saved his team from being that much worse.  The name of the award defines itself and is open to some interpretation.  However, the award isn't the most valuable player on the best team or the most valuable player to a team's success. 

With that being said, an All-American team is defined as the best player at each particular position and the best of the best are on the first team followed by second, third and honorable mention.  An objective set of criteria must be used and I assume that statistics are it.  Yes, partiality is probably involved and objectivity is probably compromised at times but stats are stats.  A guy can go 3 for 3 with three duck farts and he's hitting a thousand and another guy hits three rockets that are caught and he ends up hitting zero.  The better hitter is probably the guy who didn't get a hit but we have to give the nod to the guy who went three for three because stats are our criteria.  The bottom line is that in DIII baseball, there are far more average to below average teams than good to great teams.  Some teams play in a better conference, make their non-conference schedule competitive etc. but at some point every AA or potential AA is going to play against an inferior opponent where they are going to "pad their stats."  I just don't like to see kids punished for what they cannot control.  They don't make the schedule, they just do their job and play the game.   
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2008, 05:13:43 pm
As a retired stats prof, I'll have to take issue with the implications of 'stats are stats'.  While I won't go quite so far as Disraeli's masterful line "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics", they MUST be both put in context and weighted against non-statistical evidence.  The statistically 'best' player is sometimes (often?) not THE 'best' player, assuming experts eyes can be trusted.  I would certainly hope that AA voters do not rely SOLELY on statistics, though that is an obvious (and no doubt correct) STARTING point.  Statistics are 'objective', but they are not always 'correct'.

Sorry, I'm retired and absolutely must stop being so pedantic! :P
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Old Spartan on January 19, 2008, 06:37:03 pm
If statistics were dispositive, versus serving as a starting point, there would be no purpose in this message board.  That would deprive all of us the enjoyment we take from debating the many issues that we do here.

Professor, I appreciate your point.

OS
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: StarvinMarvin on January 19, 2008, 07:15:16 pm
There's no question that statistics are somewhat misleading at times but because DIII baseball is so vast (over 350 programs), statistics are often all we have to rely on when we judge and debate players.
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: dgilblair on January 19, 2008, 07:33:34 pm
As a retired stats prof, I'll have to take issue with the implications of 'stats are stats'.  While I won't go quite so far as Disraeli's masterful line "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics", they MUST be both put in context and weighted against non-statistical evidence.  The statistically 'best' player is sometimes (often?) not THE 'best' player, assuming experts eyes can be trusted.  I would certainly hope that AA voters do not rely SOLELY on statistics, though that is an obvious (and no doubt correct) STARTING point.  Statistics are 'objective', but they are not always 'correct'.

Sorry, I'm retired and absolutely must stop being so pedantic! :P

Had to look up that pedantic word. :P
Baseball is all about stats.  I agree they are not always correct.  Some do get hits or RBI's in 13 - 2 games more than others.  How would the people that select the AA teams know that without really following all these teams.  So stats have to be the starting point and weigh heavily in the selection process.  On any given team you could have two teammates with 50 RBI for the season.  The difference could be one had a majority of those in less meaningful spots.  Don't get me wrong any RBI is a good RBI.  But the guy that gets them in a tight spot, game winners, those are the big ones and could separate the two players with the same amount of RBI's. How would you know that? Thats why picking tournament MVP's is so much easier.  It's right there in front of you.  
Why did MLB remove the game winning RBI stat years back?  Anyone know?  I always thought that was a cool stat.
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 19, 2008, 07:48:25 pm
There's no question that statistics are somewhat misleading at times but because DIII baseball is so vast (over 350 programs), statistics are often all we have to rely on when we judge and debate players.

Due to this board (among other resources), au contraire!

I won the very first 'pick ems' contest I entered in CCIW basketball, despite having not seen a game in 34 years.  When others congratulated me on my 'statistical analysis', I replied that I didn't really trust the stats - analyzing their posts was what did it (taking into account known biases, general reliability, etc.)!  [Since then, my 'success' in both basketball and football pickems have shown that 'beginner's luck' was also a principal component!]

While d3baseball.com doesn't (yet?) have the wealth of 'data' that d3hoops or d3football has, there is a lot more information than 'just' stats.

DG, your post came in just as I was about to post mine.  I think it pretty much responds to your post also, except I will try to stop being so pedantic with words like 'pedantic'! ;D

As to the 'game winning RBI', I agree that was a cool stat - I confess I hadn't realized they dropped it (I think the Detroit Free Press still does it for the Tigers).
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2008, 12:28:34 am
I also think that these boards have seen a quantum leap in the knowledge base to which the fans have access.

This is the third season for the message boards and the second season in this format for D3baseball.com.

We know that the South and the West, start out early.  We see features on the players in those areas.  Those areas start winding down, or getting into playoff and tourney mode, as the northern and northeastern schools start going strong.  The concentrated nature of those schedules give us a more natural look at the players, especially if they are playing four or five games in a week, as opposed to the drawn out schedules we get in the West and the South.

I fully expect the sophistication that these sites afford the D3 baseball community will mean a better understanding of Division III Baseball.

This is gonna get even "funner"!  ;)
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: kscer on January 20, 2008, 10:28:29 am
.  The concentrated nature of those schedules give us a more natural look at the players, especially if they are playing four or five games in a week, as opposed to the drawn out schedules we get in the West and the South.


In regard to the scheduling... here in the northeast we have a very short sometimes truncated season. A sub-par week due to an illness or an injury can take a player out of the running for statistically driven honors. Or start poorly on a spring trip with twelve games in seven days. Clutch players will still perform in clutch situations regardless what the stats say.
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Bob Maxwell on January 20, 2008, 11:19:04 am
As we will recall... we had a nice discussion of the merits of the differences in the seasons based on geography and what works best for individuals and teams when it comes to post season.  I think there was merit in both points of view...

As for the AA teams, who was on it, who was considered and who may have been snubbed... this is a best practices/information situation, as last years statistics/reputaions and team achievemetns were used.  Many of the players onthe list will end up on the post season list... some will drop out because of a "down" year (if hitting .350, 3 HR's and 30 something RBI's is a down year...  ;D )

There will be those that aren't even on the radar that jump up and demand recognitino... bot individuals and teams.

This is a process that causes lively discussion... and as we all have read, that is exactly what is happening.  I love it...

And Ralph is correct... the d3sports and baseball sites really are great as they give a wealth of information, knowledge and opinions...  EXACTLY what all of us want and enjoy.

Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: BaseballFan on January 20, 2008, 02:26:08 pm
Did Zach Lutz turn pro? I know he was drafted but could not find him on any rosters for the Mets and Alvernias website has not ubdated their roster. Im guessing he did turn pro or we would be a preseason all American since he was the player of the year
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 20, 2008, 02:51:22 pm
Did Zach Lutz turn pro? I know he was drafted but could not find him on any rosters for the Mets and Alvernias website has not ubdated their roster. Im guessing he did turn pro or we would be a preseason all American since he was the player of the year

Yes Zach Lutz did leave Alvernia early. Eric Focht is slated to replace him at 3B.

Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: UWP SID on January 22, 2008, 09:56:21 am
UW-Platteville's Ross Bennett earned first team preseason all-American honors last year by this site and followed it up by hitting .357 with 13 doubles, three triples and nine home runs. Hard to believe that he "dropped" so much as to not even receive a mention or even be part of the question about overlooked players. 
Title: Re: Preseason All-Americans
Post by: John McGraw on January 23, 2008, 04:44:52 pm
Did Zach Lutz turn pro? I know he was drafted but could not find him on any rosters for the Mets and Alvernias website has not ubdated their roster. Im guessing he did turn pro or we would be a preseason all American since he was the player of the year

Yes Zach Lutz did leave Alvernia early. Eric Focht is slated to replace him at 3B.



Lutz played one game for the Brooklyn Cyclones of the New York-Penn League. Either during the game or shortly after that he was hurt and missed the rest of the season. I suspect he'll go to extended spring training this year and then either back to Brooklyn come June or to the Mets affiliate in the South Atlantic League depending on his progress.
Title: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: bbnag101 on May 09, 2008, 01:46:05 am
OK – all you stat guys……Since all the regular season games are over (at least I think they all are)  How have the 2008 D3 Preseason All-American faired? 

Here is the list from the front page.  Any surprises?   Who should be added/dropped?  Who should be Player of the Year and Pitcher of the Year?  Any FASTER way of comparing their stats other than going to each schools web site?

First Team 
Pos Name, School
C Mike Zaccardo, Cortland State.
1B Drew Hedman, Pomona-Pitzer.
2B Ricky Angel, Illinois Wesleyan.
3B Derek David, McMurry.
SS Adam Frost, St. Norbert.
OF Marc Blakeley, Augustana .
OF Blake Eller, St. Scholastica .
OF Hunter Owen, Millsaps .
 DH Brad Ketterer, Thomas More .
UTL Kurt Yacko, Chapman .
P Matt Aronson, Illinois Wesleyan
P Wayde Kitchens, Chapman
P Adam Samson, Wooster

Second Team
Pos Name, School
C Matthew Pexa, St. Thomas
1B Brent Voorhees, McMurry .
 2B Joe Roth, Emory .
3B Richard Gomez, CCNY .
SS Jonas Fester, Johns Hopkins .
OF Bryan Burke, Kean .
OF Joey McDaniel, Ohio Wesleyan .
OF Alex Weber-Shapiro, CMS .
DH Nate Nelson, Worcester State .
UTL Shawn Gilblair, Eastern Conn.
P Robert Flanagan, Rhodes
P Aaron Saeubling, Wartburg
P Ahmed Shelton, Averett
P Anthony Trapuzzan, Wooster
UTL Shawn Gilblair, Eastern Conn.

Honorable Mention
C: Brandon Sales, Pacific Lutheran;
1B: Daniel Vanaman,
Rhodes; 2B: Matt Stanziano, Pitt-Greensburg;
3B: Jack Walker, Concordia-Chicago;
SS: Luke Enman, St. Joseph’s (Me.);
 OF: Mitch Kuczek, Transylvania;
OF: Michael Sims, LaGrange;
P: Dan Remenowsky, Otterbein.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: BigPoppa on May 09, 2008, 12:11:42 pm
I would add Carthage's Jason Acevado:
 .465 avg / 17 2Bs / 12 HRs / 65 RBIs

Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: ILVBB on May 09, 2008, 01:17:36 pm
I haven't taken a hard look at the list, but I instinctively know that there are some terrific players both on an off the list.

What really makes an all-american? I tried to develop my own criteria. Is this complete, no, I am sure that we can add to it, then you can begin making an assessment of who is deserving.

Excellent stats (Ave, RBI's, power numbers, ERA, W-L)
Leadership (Team - did this person make a difference on his team)
Conference Leadership (Did this person lead his team to a conference championship, lead them to the NCAA tourney, or significantly improved the team over the last year)
Competitive Profile (Excellence against good teams or did they beat-up on the weak)
Level of Competition (what confernce did they play in, some are stronger than others)

I have seen a good number of the players on the list, all were great players, however, when you take a comprehensive view are they all-americans?

Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: Billy 40 on May 09, 2008, 01:24:00 pm
Safe to say Derek David will be Player of the Year?

Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: Titan Q on May 09, 2008, 03:06:23 pm
Illinois Wesleyan's Matt Aronson threw a complete game shutout today on day 2 of the CCIW tournament...

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/bb2008/cciwbb3.htm

He is now 7-0.

Interestingly, Aronson has not been IWU's best pitcher this season.  Sophomore Brent Kulavic is 6-0 with a 1.63 ERA, with 56 K's in 55 IP.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: fouriscosmic on May 09, 2008, 03:42:31 pm
Can there ever be a lock for player of the year.  David's power numbers are impressive and other numbers are good, but should a player win PoTY just because he hits home runs (lots and lots of them)?  David's OBS is 1.435 rather impressive, but not the best in D-III.  Dan Kauffman of Junita has a 1.624 (leads D-III in OBP and BB). 

If you want a 5 tool player as player of the year then David falls short.

Power - 100% the best HR hitter in D-III
Average - Very good, but not comparable to some of the 0.500 + hitters
Speed - I have never seen him play, but his low doubles and triples combined with few stolen bases implies no wheels
Fielding ability - 0.911 fielding percentage at 3B is not strong at all
Arm - Can't judge by any numbers, not the most important for 3B.

I don't know that I can offer a better candidate, but just some fodder for thought

David has also played 46 games this year, some of his numbers should be taken as per game averages.  He ranks 6th in RBI per game despite being ranked #1 for RBI
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: baseballroxmysox on May 10, 2008, 11:04:56 am
Here are the stats as of 5/9/08 that were posted the teams website.  I only did the First Team - will try to do the rest later.  I was surprised that some of these guys did not have the best stats on the team. 
2008 First Team - Pre Season   
                           
POS   Name   School   AVG    R   H   2B   3B   HR   RBI   SB-ATT   FLD%
C   Mike Zaccardo   Cortland State   0.401   44   55   13   1   4   42    10-14   0.960
1B   Drew Hedman     Pomona-Pitzer.   0.380   48   57   11   0   18   60   0-0   0.990
2B   Ricky Angel    Illinois Wesleyan   0.351   33   54   12   0   11   62    1-2   0.978
3B   Derek David    McMurry.   0.444   78   84   11   0   26   73    7-8   0.911
SS   Adam Frost   St. Norbert.   0.392   45   58   15   1   7   38    24-27   0.898
OF   Marc Blakeley   Augustana .   0.399   59   69   13   2   4   35   25-28   0.958
OF   Blake Eller   St. Scholastica   0.425   47   45   10   2   3   68    25-29   0.975
OF   Hunter Owen   Millsaps   0.388   61   62   11   0   16   50   23-26   0.959
DH   Brad Ketterer   Thomas More   0.382   47   55   18   0   8   43    4-7   0.984
UTL   Kurt Yacko   Chapman   0.356   40   63   11   3   10   45    8-11   0.927
                                 
POS   Name   School   ERA    W-L   SV   IP   H   ER   BB   SO   B/Avg
P    Matt Aronson   Illinois Wesleyan   1.63     7-0   0   72   66   27   16   68   0.237
P   Wayde Kitchens   Chapman   0.31    7-0    0   58.2   24   2   28   58   0.128
P   Adam Samson    Wooster   3.13     7-1    0   60.1   29   21   25   63   0.221
UTL   Kurt Yacko   Chapman   0.78    5-0   12   46   23   4   15   60   0.146


PS - I give up trying to get this excel report columns to match up.  I also tried to attached a pdf copy of this - and lost everything.   :P
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: mideastfan2 on May 10, 2008, 11:33:55 am
Can there ever be a lock for player of the year.  David's power numbers are impressive and other numbers are good, but should a player win PoTY just because he hits home runs (lots and lots of them)?  David's OBS is 1.435 rather impressive, but not the best in D-III.  Dan Kauffman of Junita has a 1.624 (leads D-III in OBP and BB). 

If you want a 5 tool player as player of the year then David falls short.

Power - 100% the best HR hitter in D-III
Average - Very good, but not comparable to some of the 0.500 + hitters
Speed - I have never seen him play, but his low doubles and triples combined with few stolen bases implies no wheels
Fielding ability - 0.911 fielding percentage at 3B is not strong at all
Arm - Can't judge by any numbers, not the most important for 3B.

I don't know that I can offer a better candidate, but just some fodder for thought

David has also played 46 games this year, some of his numbers should be taken as per game averages.  He ranks 6th in RBI per game despite being ranked #1 for RBI

yeah, there can definitely be a lock for player of the year, and if Derek David doesn't win it, there's something wrong!!  The kid is hitting over .440 and has driven in over 73 runs......that should be enough, regardless of the fact that he hit more home runs in a season than has been seen in quite a while.

He'll win it, hands down.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: LWC23 on May 10, 2008, 01:14:11 pm
 Brian Clark from Linfield-Stats , He earned 2008  Northwest Conference Pitcher of the Year:
 2nd team ABCA West Coast selection last year as a Junior.

POS   Name           School        ERA    W-L   SV   IP       H      ER    BB    SO    B/Avg
  P     Brian Clark    Linfield       2.59   9-1     0   76.1   60     22     22     48    .223
 
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: BigPoppa on May 10, 2008, 01:54:39 pm
I would add Carthage's Jason Acevado:
 .465 avg / 17 2Bs / 12 HRs / 65 RBIs



Acevado is hitting 25 points higher than your "lock" and only is only 8 rbi behind with about 8 fewer games played.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: fouriscosmic on May 10, 2008, 08:30:49 pm
Can there ever be a lock for player of the year.  David's power numbers are impressive and other numbers are good, but should a player win PoTY just because he hits home runs (lots and lots of them)?  David's OBS is 1.435 rather impressive, but not the best in D-III.  Dan Kauffman of Junita has a 1.624 (leads D-III in OBP and BB). 

If you want a 5 tool player as player of the year then David falls short.

Power - 100% the best HR hitter in D-III
Average - Very good, but not comparable to some of the 0.500 + hitters
Speed - I have never seen him play, but his low doubles and triples combined with few stolen bases implies no wheels
Fielding ability - 0.911 fielding percentage at 3B is not strong at all
Arm - Can't judge by any numbers, not the most important for 3B.

I don't know that I can offer a better candidate, but just some fodder for thought

David has also played 46 games this year, some of his numbers should be taken as per game averages.  He ranks 6th in RBI per game despite being ranked #1 for RBI

yeah, there can definitely be a lock for player of the year, and if Derek David doesn't win it, there's something wrong!!  The kid is hitting over .440 and has driven in over 73 runs......that should be enough, regardless of the fact that he hit more home runs in a season than has been seen in quite a while.

He'll win it, hands down.

I may be jaded when it comes to average but .440 just doesn't impress me like it used to.  Hopkins has 6 players with 50+ ABs hitting .440 or higher (most much higher with many more ABs) so I find it hard to buy that his .440 BA makes him a lock for POtY.  His power numbers are impressive, but is that what makes the biggest impact on the teams success?
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: mideastfan2 on May 10, 2008, 10:45:01 pm
^^^ did you say 50+ at bats, or was that a typo and you actually meant over 100+ at bats??  50 at bats isn't enough to qualify how good of a hitter you are for a whole season, or even be considered for an all-conference, all-region, or allamerican team.

.444, with over 73 RBI's, 78 runs scored, and 26 HR's (not to mention his .915 slugging percentage & .520 on base percentage) is very very rare.  He's played a tough schedule and in a very tough conference.  I've been around DIII baseball for quite awhile and haven't seen too many players with these types of numbers that DON'T win POY honors. 

Just my opinion of course from what I've seen in the past.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: dgilblair on May 10, 2008, 11:25:54 pm
^^^ did you say 50+ at bats, or was that a typo and you actually meant over 100+ at bats??  50 at bats isn't enough to qualify how good of a hitter you are for a whole season, or even be considered for an all-conference, all-region, or allamerican team.

.444, with over 73 RBI's, 78 runs scored, and 26 HR's (not to mention his .915 slugging percentage & .520 on base percentage) is very very rare.  He's played a tough schedule and in a very tough conference.  I've been around DIII baseball for quite awhile and haven't seen too many players with these types of numbers that DON'T win POY honors. 

Just my opinion of course from what I've seen in the past.
I would have to agree.  Give me someone who takes it away from him.  Of course someone with more than 50 ab's
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: frank_ezelle on May 10, 2008, 11:52:20 pm
The most amazing number from the Derek David stat line is the 27 walks.  A guy is hitting .444 with 26 HR's and you would think someone would figure out that you shouldn't pitch to the guy.

My guess is that the batters behind David we also extremely tough.  Hunter Owen at Millsaps didn't have quite as much hitting surrounding him this year so he ended up being walked 45 times.  He still managed to break the Millsaps season record set in 2006 by Garner Wetzel with 16 HR's in 160 AB's, and his .388 BA, the 45 walks, and 12 HBP combined to give him a .556 OBP.

While his rbi's were down mostly due to lack of base runners, Hunter basically did as well or better than the 2007 season.  Since he has a medical redshirt year, I believe he will be back next season for Millsaps.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: fouriscosmic on May 10, 2008, 11:55:45 pm
^^^ did you say 50+ at bats, or was that a typo and you actually meant over 100+ at bats??  50 at bats isn't enough to qualify how good of a hitter you are for a whole season, or even be considered for an all-conference, all-region, or allamerican team.

.444, with over 73 RBI's, 78 runs scored, and 26 HR's (not to mention his .915 slugging percentage & .520 on base percentage) is very very rare.  He's played a tough schedule and in a very tough conference.  I've been around DIII baseball for quite awhile and haven't seen too many players with these types of numbers that DON'T win POY honors. 

Just my opinion of course from what I've seen in the past.

I knew someone wouldn't like my 50+ AB, so I will justify.  Ryan Biner 86 AB .488 BA torn ACL out for the season, Jonas Fester (pre-season all american) 67 AB .447 BA torn MCL missed the last 20 games.  Dan Merzel 50 AB .440 BA got a spot in the INF to fill the spot left by Fester.  The other three are all hitting over .485 with a min of 130 AB. Point is, all of them are hitting .440 and they are all on the same team, that is ranked in the top 25.

If you want to mention slugging percentage and OBP review my post about OBS he is nearly 200 points behind the D-III leader.  Still he is a great player.

My point to all of this was simply should power numbers be the only measure of POY status.

How about this for a POY pick.  Brian Youchak.  He has only played in 34 of Hopkins 38 games because other kids were let into games against easy opponents(134 AB), and he does not get mop up ABs when the game gets out of hand.  If he played in 46 games like David these would be his numbers

BA .515  Slug .836 OBP .541 RBI 70.4 Runs 71.7 and he would be 27-28.4 SB-SBA.

If he had the same number of ABs as David then his numbers would be.

74.8 Runs  73.3 RBI and 28-30 SB-SBA


I am sure that there are kids on other teams that you could play the same game with.  David has great numbers, but he is also one of the DIII leaders in AB and he plays in warm weather.  Don't let totals (RBI, Runs, HR, etc.) be most impressive part of what he has done.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: mideastfan2 on May 11, 2008, 12:26:28 am
^^^^ I understand your point...and it's a very good one.

My only counterpoint would be that ever since the NCAA started regulating the number of games to 40, everyone is on the same page.  The cold weather schools can easily pick up doubleheaders with non-league opponenets as the year goes along IF (and a strongly emphasize IF) they want to reach that total of 40 games played.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: fouriscosmic on May 11, 2008, 12:52:58 am
and if they want to play in 45 degree weather and/or rain
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 11, 2008, 01:17:21 am
and if they want to play in 45 degree weather and/or rain

Or 35 degrees and snow/sleet - check out early season games above the Mason-Dixon line.

It is a rare northern school that manages 40 games.  Scheduled non-con games often go bye-bye due to the necessity of making up conference games.

With a 40-game limit, I question the legality of having played 46 games (that count) even with a conference tourney.  Are Derek David's stats even legit?
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: Bostonian on May 11, 2008, 07:33:52 am
Tim Kiely from Trinty has to be a 1st teamer. 9-0, 70 innings pitched, 1.4 ERA, 75 K's and 1 (that's right, 1) walk....
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: mideastfan2 on May 11, 2008, 09:26:26 am
and if they want to play in 45 degree weather and/or rain

Or 35 degrees and snow/sleet - check out early season games above the Mason-Dixon line.

It is a rare northern school that manages 40 games.  Scheduled non-con games often go bye-bye due to the necessity of making up conference games.

With a 40-game limit, I question the legality of having played 46 games (that count) even with a conference tourney.  Are Derek David's stats even legit?

I hope your joking, to even insinuate that David's stats aren't legit!  The NCAA 40 game rule pertains to regular season games.  McMurry played 40 of them, plus their conference tournament semi-final series, and the conference tournament (that totals 46).

I'm also not going to sit and here and let anyone use weather as an excuse.  Before the 40-game rule was put into place, teams had no problems playing 45+ games in a regular season.  I played for a "northern" school, and we usually played a 48 game schedule every year (and if something got rained/snowed out.....we rescheduled and made it up).

2 exmples from this year...Ohio Wesleyan played 40 regular season games.  Eastern Conn State played 39 regular season games.  Both are northern schools who battled weather problems. 

Now if your team's Coach doesn't want to reschedule those games, that's his fault.  But a southern team that can play all 40 games shouldn't be punished or looked upon as special.  I'm not buying that, and I never will.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: Billy 40 on May 11, 2008, 10:46:09 am
The weather - that's part of the problem when evluating talent in a short Spring Baseball season up in the North. It is very difficult to compare a player when 50% of the games were played below 45 degrees, when teh other player played 100% of his games in weatehr over 75. So while a team might squeeze in 40 games, a large percentage were played in condtions more suited for Football. WOuld be nice to see how well some of these Southern teams would do, is tehy took a Spring Break trip up to NY or Chicago in March, instead of us travelling to Florida or wherever to get our brains beat in by teams playing outside for 8 weeks.

Regarding David - didn't  he hit a HR in 6 or 7 consecutive games? I don't care what competition he was playing against, that's really impressive. The fact he hit so many HR's, and accounted for so many runs, impressive. This quote below gave me a good chuckle...

"Average - Very good, but not comparable to some of the 0.500 + hitters"

Are you kidding me? There isn't a single .500+ hitter who is on the same planet with David's power numbers.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2008, 11:12:18 am
and if they want to play in 45 degree weather and/or rain

With a 40-game limit, I question the legality of having played 46 games (that count) even with a conference tourney.  Are Derek David's stats even legit?
The Presidents in the ASC recognized that we basically had two conferences under the 15-team umbrella.  They decided to expand the playoff formats in a manner similar to what the SCAC has done as well.

McMurry was the #1-seed in the West and played the #4 seed East Louisiana College in a crossover best 2-of-3.  Then, they swept the double-elimination format, 3 games to 0.

As for David's numbers, the 3-game series versus Chapman he went 5 for 13 scoring 3 runs plus 2 RBI.  In the 3-game series versus George Fox, he went 4 for 13 scoring 4 runs and a 4 RBI.  That is 9 for 26 plus 6 RBI against the #1 and #2 ranked teams in the West Region.  :)
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: fouriscosmic on May 11, 2008, 03:01:42 pm
The weather - that's part of the problem when evluating talent in a short Spring Baseball season up in the North. It is very difficult to compare a player when 50% of the games were played below 45 degrees, when teh other player played 100% of his games in weatehr over 75. So while a team might squeeze in 40 games, a large percentage were played in condtions more suited for Football. WOuld be nice to see how well some of these Southern teams would do, is tehy took a Spring Break trip up to NY or Chicago in March, instead of us travelling to Florida or wherever to get our brains beat in by teams playing outside for 8 weeks.

Regarding David - didn't  he hit a HR in 6 or 7 consecutive games? I don't care what competition he was playing against, that's really impressive. The fact he hit so many HR's, and accounted for so many runs, impressive. This quote below gave me a good chuckle...

"Average - Very good, but not comparable to some of the 0.500 + hitters"

Are you kidding me? There isn't a single .500+ hitter who is on the same planet with David's power numbers.

There is a reason that before I wrote average I wrote "power - 100% the best HR hitter in D-III"

We are talking about the BEST PLAYER in America at the D-III level.  There are a lot of things that go into a baseball game and hitting home runs is only one of them.  5 tool players are rare, and David is not a 5 tool player.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: All-AmericanFan on May 11, 2008, 06:17:38 pm
 I forgot when the MLB hands out the Most Valuable player the guy has to be five tools like A-Rod was in Texas when he used to steal less than 10 bags a 162 game season and win the MVP... We are talking about the D3 player of the Year, you give me one coach from one of the teams on the regional ranking list who says he can find a player he would rather pitch around than Derek David. Oh so-and-so is hitting .500? You didn't even give a freaking name and we don't know who he is. I say Derek David you say 26 home runs. You know the guy. You know the guy cause he's the best player in D3. End of Story. Vote your guy for all-american cause that's the only award he's got a shot at.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: TheGNAC on May 11, 2008, 06:33:53 pm
Yeah, not sure where the idea comes from that the Player of the Year needs to be a 5 tool talent. Pretty sure Mark McGwire didn't steal too many bags when he was collecting his hardware.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: mideastfan2 on May 11, 2008, 06:51:43 pm
traditionally the DIII POY is NOT a 5 tool player.  They are a player with exceptional stats...and David has exception al stats this season, which others do not.  .444, 26 HR's and 73 RBI's are incredible numbers for a DIII player, and like I said before, someone with those number usually wins the POY award (at least in the last 12 years that I've been around DIII baseball)....unless of course you're a utility player, then your pitching stats will come into play.

Or your Matt DeSalvo....the most dominating DIII pitcher (stat wise) to ever play.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: atl7 on May 11, 2008, 07:13:48 pm
traditionally the DIII POY is NOT a 5 tool player.  They are a player with exceptional stats...and David has exception al stats this season, which others do not.  .444, 26 HR's and 73 RBI's are incredible numbers for a DIII player, and like I said before, someone with those number usually wins the POY award (at least in the last 12 years that I've been around DIII baseball)....unless of course you're a utility player, then your pitching stats will come into play.

Or your Matt DeSalvo....the most dominating DIII pitcher (stat wise) to ever play.

i highly doubt there are any "true" 5 tool players at this level...you have to remember its d-3 baseball 5 tool players are at Juco and D1....if you are really a 5 tool player you would not be at this level.....

but David is the greatest thing i have seen play at this level and will get at chance with MLB draft comin' up....

Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: The U For Life on May 11, 2008, 07:46:10 pm
fouriscosmic,

I would love to see the numbers you expect the POTY award to have.  Regarding D. David if he doesnt win POTY then no one deserves it.  Your talking about someone who has hit 444 ave, 78 runs, 84 hits, 11 doubles, 26 home runs(which is 2nd or 3rd all time D3 history), 73 rbis, 173 tb, 915 slugging % and a 520 OB %.  Those numbers are ridiculous.  David has hit everyone whether it be the weaker teams or the tough teams.  Now about his 5 tools.  The first thing you questioned was his speed.  David actually leads his team in stolen bases with 7.  I know your thinking that isnt a lot, but if you have seen McMurry play then you would know that they are not the type of team that steals bases.  He actually leads the team in attempts with 8.  Also you said he didnt hit enough doubles for your liking.  Well last year he hit 24 doubles which is a school record.  David has managed to put together one of the greatest offensive seasons in the history of D3 baseball.  That is all i've got to say. 
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: All-AmericanFan on May 11, 2008, 08:05:12 pm
The game has changed since I last played but last I checked....

It was always hard to steal a base when you are hitting a home run.

Why do you steal when you have the all time conference career home run leader hitting behind you?

Those guys do not have to steal, they are in scoring position when they step into the box.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2008, 09:21:10 pm
To give a more accurate picture of Derek David, he batted third ahead of second team pre-season All-American Brent Voorhees (http://www.d3baseball.com/all-american/preseason2008.pdf) until Voorhees took a bad fall going for a foul ball  in the third Howard Payne game.

David played the very capable Babe Ruth to Voorhees' Lou Gehrig.  Here are Voorhees numbers, including 36 games before the injured shoulder.

Player                    AVG  GP-GS    AB    R    H    2B 3B HR  RBI   TB  SLG% BB HBP SO GDP OB% SF  SH   SB-ATT  PO  A   E   FLD%
B. Voorhees .357 38-37 157 39 56 14 0 10 52 100 .637 19  3  22  0 .431  2   0   0-0  171 8  4 .978

Why do you try to steal when this is the guy behind you?
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: mideastfan2 on May 11, 2008, 09:34:42 pm
David has managed to put together one of the greatest offensive seasons in the history of D3 baseball.  That is all i've got to say. 

great season........yes

should be POY for 2008.......yes

one of the greatest offensive seasons in the history of D3 baseball........quite possibly a top 10 season.

There have been players in the past that have put up ridiculous numbers.  Jorgenson from UW-Oshkosh, Coakley from Marietta, Cortez from Ponoma-Pitzer, Caravella from Ohio Wesleyan, and those are just off the top of my head.  There are plenty others.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: fouriscosmic on May 12, 2008, 12:00:42 am
If David has speed then I take back that he is lacking that tool, and I will not comment on his arm.  Still the .911 fielding % leaves something to be desired.  And he has struck out 34 times this season.

Ralph,
I would steal with those numbers behind David, Hopkins has 47 times this season (Youchak is followed by Pietroforte whose numbers are better than Vorhees and Pietroforte is followed by Emr whose numbers are better than Vorhees)  The reason I would steal with Pietro and Youch is because they are both very fast.  They are a combined 43-47 and each went their first 17 before getting thrown out.  That is what speed adds to your lineup.

All-AmericanFan,
David has not been in SP 79 times this season after his AB (singles, walks, HBP)  He has put himself into scoring position 7 times (assuming all his steals are of 2B.)  He gets himself into SP 8.8% of the time, add in his XBHits and he is in SP after 20% of his plate appearances.

Brian Youchak (there is your name for someone batting over .500)  Has not been in SP 53 times this season after his AB.  He has put himself into scoring position 20 times (same logic I know it is slightly off because Youchak has stolen thrid).  He gets himself into SP 37.7% percent of the time, add in his XBHits and he is in SP after 31.9% of his plate appearances.

The U for Life,

Here are numbers that I would expect to see from the POTY
    Player               AVG  GP-GS    AB    R    H   2B  3B  HR RBI   TB   SLG% BB HBP  SO OB%  SB-ATT  FLD%
Brian Youchak....  .515   34-33   134  53  69  17   1   8   52   112  .836    8    2      8  .541   20-21   .980
If he had the same number of ABs as David
                           .515   46-46   189  75  97  24   1  11  73   158  .836   11   3     11 .541   28-30   .980

Now the final word, I don't think everyone read my first post on this topic.

Derek David is a great power hitter and deserves any award that he gets including Player of the Year.  But to say that he is the "Hands Down" Player of the Year is an insult to every other player in D-III who is having a phenominal year.  David's numbers are spectacular, but he has had the opportunity to make them spectacular, something that other players in the country have not had.  There are players out there who are 5-tool players who do not put up David's HR totals, but that should not mean that they can't be considered for POTY.  Looking beyond the basic numbers it is clear that team contribution goes well beyond OBS.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2008, 12:23:54 am

Brian Youchak (there is your name for someone batting over .500)  Has not been in SP 53 times this season after his AB.  He has put himself into scoring position 20 times (same logic I know it is slightly off because Youchak has stolen thrid).  He gets himself into SP 37.7% percent of the time, add in his XBHits and he is in SP after 31.9% of his plate appearances.

The U for Life,

Here are numbers that I would expect to see from the POTY
    Player               AVG  GP-GS    AB    R    H   2B  3B  HR RBI   TB   SLG% BB HBP  SO OB%  SB-ATT  FLD%
Brian Youchak....  .515   34-33   134  53  69  17   1   8   52   112  .836    8    2      8  .541   20-21   .980
If he had the same number of ABs as David
                           .515   46-46   189  75  97  24   1  11  73   158  .836   11   3     11 .541   28-30   .980

Now the final word, I don't think everyone read my first post on this topic.
...
:D :D :D

Well, here's a name to match your Brain Youchak...

McMurry's Steven Yurchick leads off for McMurry (when he hasn't been injured).



Player                 AVG  GP-GS    AB   R   H  2B  3B  HR RBI   TB  SLG% BB HBP SO GDP OB%  SF  SH  SB-ATT   PO   A   E  FLD%

Derek David....    .444  46-46  189  78  84  11   0  26 73  173  .915  27   5    34   2    .520     2     0      7-8       41 102  14  .911
Steven Yurchick. .434  35-34 152  51  66  13   4   8   34 111  .730  16    5     8    0    .503     0     0      3-4       69  64     4   .971


Thanks for the discussion, cosmic.   :)
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: The U For Life on May 12, 2008, 01:00:03 am
Cosmic, 

Youchaks numbers are very good, but I think its a little unfair to say that if he had this number of at bats this is what his numbers would be.  Yeah its fun and everything to say he would be on pace to do this, but it still would have to be done.  We all know baseball is a funny game and can be very unfair.  Dont want to take anything away from the kid at all those are exceptional numbers, all im saying is that you never know what would happen in his next 55 at bats.  He could just as well continue on that pace as he could go in a slump.  I also appreciate the discussion as well and it is good to hear about other great players around the country.   
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: Cutter on May 12, 2008, 08:26:15 am
pretty sure youchak is only a soph as well...looks like he and the hop O will be tested early vs moreland...good luck jays in va
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: Billy 40 on May 12, 2008, 09:20:09 am

Here are numbers that I would expect to see from the POTY
    Player               AVG  GP-GS    AB    R    H   2B  3B  HR RBI   TB   SLG% BB HBP  SO OB%  SB-ATT  FLD%
Brian Youchak....  .515   34-33   134  53  69  17   1   8   52   112  .836    8    2      8  .541   20-21   .980

It sucks argueing with someone who is biased. Why would you pick the numbers quoted above, if they are not even as good as this guy:

Player                 AVG  GP-GS    AB   R   H  2B  3B  HR RBI   TB  SLG%  BB HBP  SO OB% SB-ATT  FLD%

Kolb, Brian.........  .527  36-35   146  45  77  19   2   6  52  118  .808  11   2  21   .559  25-25  .988

He's got your boy beat in every category except HR's,  Slugging, and K's. 
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: All-AmericanFan on May 12, 2008, 09:23:50 am
Cosmic, your argument is flawed....

Derek David is not just in scoring position 20% of the time, he is scoring EVERYBODY including himself 14% of the time. Let's just project Derek David's numbers if he had a big league season..... Oh yeah in baseball you don't project numbers at the end of the season; they numbers are what they are!

Youchaks is stealing bases because 94% of the time he still has bases to steal. Even if he stole third on ten of his doubles, then stole home 10 times following that (accounting for his 20 stolen bases), that would put him as 8 real home runs, and for the sake of the argument, 10 more home runs, giving him 18. He now is left with 1 triple and 7 doubles...... still not matching David's 26, 0, 11. And I didn't even alter David's numbers, his speak for themselves.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: fouriscosmic on May 12, 2008, 12:41:41 pm
Billy 40,

The fact that there are other players out there with comparable numbers to Youchak is exactly what I am talking about.  All of these players deserve to be mentioned, I did not search through all of D-III to find the best player, I simply looked at the line-up of the best hitting team in D-III (by team BA).  And for the record, Youchak is beating Kolb in HR, Slug, K and Runs.


All-American Fan,

Youchak does not have a base to steal 94% of the time, you can't steal if you are not on base.  Youchak has the opportunity to steal some base after 49.3% of his plate appearances.  David has the opportunity to steal after 40.7% of his plate appearances.

If you factor in strikeouts (stealing 1st) then Youchak has an opportunity after 54.9% of his PA and David after 56.1%.

Youchak can steal 2nd (into scoring position) after 29.7% of his PA.  David 35.7% of his PA.

I will not buy any argument that David is a comparable base-stealer to Youchak or Kolb or any other of the base-stealers around D-III.  Being said, his team has decided that he shouldn't be, and you can not hold that against David.


Everyone else,
I agree that projecting numbers is flawed, but when you are comparing 189 AB to 132 AB it is flawed to compare totals.  I also agree that the person who actually put up the big numbers has an edge on the person who is on pace to put up big numbers, and again I think David will be, and probably should be, the player of the year.  But to reiterate, calling him a hands down lock and not consider the seasons that players like Kolb and Youchak have had is shortsighted.


I was looking through McMurry's extended stats and it is remarkable to see that David's BA against right, against left, with RISP, bases empty, two outs, bases loaded, etc. are all eerily close to his season average.  Clearly he brings the same approach and focus to each at bat.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: Billy 40 on May 12, 2008, 03:07:04 pm
Billy 40,

The fact that there are other players out there with comparable numbers to Youchak is exactly what I am talking about. 

Yet there isn't a single one with comparable numbers to David.  Ergo....

Safe to say Derek David will be Player of the Year?


Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: All-AmericanFan on May 12, 2008, 04:52:31 pm
 

Yet there isn't a single one with comparable numbers to David.  Ergo....


If I could give karma points I would, good point Billy
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: Billy 40 on May 13, 2008, 09:28:17 am
He certainly walked into that one, didn't he? I apologize for putting an end to a pretty good thread though, sorry. lol.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: ShineTime on May 13, 2008, 09:06:26 pm
Doug Coe from Stevens Point is the best player in D3 hands down.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: rjburke on May 13, 2008, 09:34:50 pm
Doug Coe from Stevens Point is the best player in D3 hands down.

 Very nice numbers, consitent season, but not enough to be "hands down" the best player in D3. And let's all be real: Derek David had a sick power season (which fuels the rb and runs numbers) and excellent other offensive numbers. May not be five tools (seems that he has below verage speed) but still had a POY season.
Title: Re: 2008 Pre-Season All-Americans
Post by: mideastfan2 on May 13, 2008, 09:36:09 pm
ShineTime - thanks for joining the conversation...a little late though.

Your guy has some good stats, but not even close to David's when compared.  about 25 less runs scored, 11 less HR's, and 17 less RBI's.  

good season, but not close to the best "hands down."

thanks for the input though, Coe will most definitely have All-American consideration!!
Title: Re: BB: 2009 Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 07, 2009, 10:52:30 pm
The 2009 Pre-season All American team will be released in the next few days.

Let's resume the discussion.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: A.G. on January 08, 2009, 08:07:59 am
In a "few days"...or TODAY?
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: baseballbaseball on January 08, 2009, 11:22:48 am
pre-season all american list comes out today hopefully and im looking foward to seeing the south region players that are represented. I expect to see Bailey (cnu) Delvin (LC) and Moore (ncwc) at least represented, and it would be a mistake if all 3 are not atleast on the Honorable Mention team, espeically the VA boys.  Good luck to those three and i hope  and will see if d3baseball really has a honorable pre season all american list
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 08, 2009, 04:14:44 pm
The D3baseball.com preseason American Team will be release just before noon eastern time on Friday.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: A.G. on January 08, 2009, 05:06:23 pm
Thanks for the info, Jim
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: dgilblair on January 08, 2009, 06:23:09 pm
pre-season all american list comes out today hopefully and im looking foward to seeing the south region players that are represented. I expect to see Bailey (cnu) Delvin (LC) and Moore (ncwc) at least represented, and it would be a mistake if all 3 are not atleast on the Honorable Mention team, espeically the VA boys.  Good luck to those three and i hope  and will see if d3baseball really has a honorable pre season all american list

Easy there baseballbaseball......It's just a pre-season list and I know it is an honor to be on it but what is a honorable list?  If your guys are not on it and they are at the end of the year they have then proved your point.  I just don't get the Honorable thing.  People vote on it, do you think these guys and or gals would have a bias against and region or a team.  I don't see it.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: baseballbaseball on January 09, 2009, 09:17:01 am
pre-season all american list comes out today hopefully and im looking foward to seeing the south region players that are represented. I expect to see Bailey (cnu) Delvin (LC) and Moore (ncwc) at least represented, and it would be a mistake if all 3 are not atleast on the Honorable Mention team, espeically the VA boys.  Good luck to those three and i hope  and will see if d3baseball really has a honorable pre season all american list

Easy there baseballbaseball......It's just a pre-season list and I know it is an honor to be on it but what is a honorable list?  If your guys are not on it and they are at the end of the year they have then proved your point.  I just don't get the Honorable thing.  People vote on it, do you think these guys and or gals would have a bias against and region or a team.  I don't see it.

DG,   id advice you to look at the history of all the pre-season all american list and then look at the post season all american list before you get on a wall post and tell me or any other person to be easy. Usually people on this site know what they are talking about but i guess they let anyone have a chance to say their word.



Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 09, 2009, 10:20:49 am
The 2009 D3baseball.com Preseason All American Team

First Team:                                 
C: Sean Killeen, Trinity (Conn.)
1B: Sean Claugherty, St. Scholastica
2B: Randy Boyle, Salisbury
3B: John Wagle, Augustana
SS: Brian Kolb, Wheaton (Ill.)
OF: Brian Youchak, Johns Hopkins
OF: Hunter Owen, Millsaps
OF: Mike Guadango, William Paterson
DH: Chris Dunham, Thiel
UTL: Shawn Gilblair, Eastern Connecticut State
P: Wayde Kitchens, Chapman
P: Blake Booher, Texas-Tyler
P: Jeremiah Bayer, Trinity (Conn.)
                                    
Second Team:
C: Brock Whiteman, Muskingum
1B: Drew Hedman, Pomona-Pitzer
2B: Mike Gerdes, St Joe (LI)
3B: Kevin Zalnis, UW-Whitewater
SS: Dan Kaczrowski, Hamline
OF: Anthony D'Alfonso, Southern Maine
OF: Andrew Fuiten, Webster
OF: Eric Boylan, Thiel
DH: Andrew Miller, Salisbury
UTL: Bruce Cameron, Ozarks
P: Adam Gingras, Wheaton (Mass.)
P: Matt Tone, Cortland State
P: Jeremy Rubens, UW-Oshkosh
                                       
Honorable Mention: 1B: Brad Demmin, UW-Oshkosh, 2B: Wes White, Jr., Waynesburg; SS: Trae Bailey, Christopher Newport; 2B/OF: Alex Raetzloff, Webster; DH: Rick Porcaro, Benedictine: P: Steve Matre, Mt. St. Joseph; Peter Burg, St. Scholastica; Eric Willey, Salisbury.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: A.G. on January 09, 2009, 10:52:00 am
Other than the north portion...not much love for the South Region.  Power numbers appear to count for A LOT for the position players.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 09, 2009, 10:57:08 am
Other than the north portion...not much love for the South Region.  Power numbers appear to count for A LOT for the position players.

I have a lot of love for the south.  I stole a Virginia gal away and brought her to the frigid north :)

Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: A.G. on January 09, 2009, 04:19:34 pm
I imagine this must be a brutal preseason team to pick, on top of being a tough end of the season.  There are so many variables, such as field size (bandbox with prevailing winds vs grand canyon type fields), competition, weather, etc.  I think you guys do a great job with a tough assignment. 

My biggest surprise was no JOE DEVLIN of Lynchburg, on any of the teams, after being 2nd Team AA SP last year as a Junior.  I guess folks are not yet believers since he does not rack up the high K #'s...but again, neither did Maddux.  Joe is a similar type pitcher.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: dgilblair on January 09, 2009, 05:43:49 pm
pre-season all american list comes out today hopefully and im looking foward to seeing the south region players that are represented. I expect to see Bailey (cnu) Delvin (LC) and Moore (ncwc) at least represented, and it would be a mistake if all 3 are not atleast on the Honorable Mention team, espeically the VA boys.  Good luck to those three and i hope  and will see if d3baseball really has a honorable pre season all american list

Easy there baseballbaseball......It's just a pre-season list and I know it is an honor to be on it but what is a honorable list?  If your guys are not on it and they are at the end of the year they have then proved your point.  I just don't get the Honorable thing.  People vote on it, do you think these guys and or gals would have a bias against and region or a team.  I don't see it.

DG,   id advice you to look at the history of all the pre-season all american list and then look at the post season all american list before you get on a wall post and tell me or any other person to be easy. Usually people on this site know what they are talking about but i guess they let anyone have a chance to say their word.



Guess your right.......  Who would you take out and replace with a player from the south?
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: ECSUalum on January 09, 2009, 08:29:51 pm
pre-season all american list comes out today hopefully and im looking foward to seeing the south region players that are represented. I expect to see Bailey (cnu) Delvin (LC) and Moore (ncwc) at least represented, and it would be a mistake if all 3 are not atleast on the Honorable Mention team, espeically the VA boys.  Good luck to those three and i hope  and will see if d3baseball really has a honorable pre season all american list

Easy there baseballbaseball......It's just a pre-season list and I know it is an honor to be on it but what is a honorable list?  If your guys are not on it and they are at the end of the year they have then proved your point.  I just don't get the Honorable thing.  People vote on it, do you think these guys and or gals would have a bias against and region or a team.  I don't see it.

DG,   id advice you to look at the history of all the pre-season all american list and then look at the post season all american list before you get on a wall post and tell me or any other person to be easy. Usually people on this site know what they are talking about but i guess they let anyone have a chance to say their word.





If there is anyone on this site who knows what they are talking about it is DGilblair.

For someone with just 25 posts, perhaps you can be a bit more open minded on this topic!!!!
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: baseballroxmysox on January 09, 2009, 09:13:29 pm
pre-season all american list comes out today hopefully and im looking foward to seeing the south region players that are represented. I expect to see Bailey (cnu) Delvin (LC) and Moore (ncwc) at least represented, and it would be a mistake if all 3 are not atleast on the Honorable Mention team, espeically the VA boys.  Good luck to those three and i hope  and will see if d3baseball really has a honorable pre season all american list

Easy there baseballbaseball......It's just a pre-season list and I know it is an honor to be on it but what is a honorable list?  If your guys are not on it and they are at the end of the year they have then proved your point.  I just don't get the Honorable thing.  People vote on it, do you think these guys and or gals would have a bias against and region or a team.  I don't see it.

DG,   id advice you to look at the history of all the pre-season all american list and then look at the post season all american list before you get on a wall post and tell me or any other person to be easy. Usually people on this site know what they are talking about but i guess they let anyone have a chance to say their word.



Guess your right.......  Who would you take out and replace with a player from the south?

The West wasn't shown much love either - only two players - Kitchens and Hedman.  But we are just fans... the people who put this together know MUCH more than all of us.  I'll stick with their choices :)
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: dgilblair on January 09, 2009, 09:23:13 pm
pre-season all american list comes out today hopefully and im looking foward to seeing the south region players that are represented. I expect to see Bailey (cnu) Delvin (LC) and Moore (ncwc) at least represented, and it would be a mistake if all 3 are not atleast on the Honorable Mention team, espeically the VA boys.  Good luck to those three and i hope  and will see if d3baseball really has a honorable pre season all american list

Easy there baseballbaseball......It's just a pre-season list and I know it is an honor to be on it but what is a honorable list?  If your guys are not on it and they are at the end of the year they have then proved your point.  I just don't get the Honorable thing.  People vote on it, do you think these guys and or gals would have a bias against and region or a team.  I don't see it.

DG,   id advice you to look at the history of all the pre-season all american list and then look at the post season all american list before you get on a wall post and tell me or any other person to be easy. Usually people on this site know what they are talking about but i guess they let anyone have a chance to say their word.





If there is anyone on this site who knows what they are talking about it is DGilblair.

For someone with just 25 posts, perhaps you can be a bit more open minded on this topic!!!!

Easy there ECSUalum.....LOL....Many know much more.  I have over the last four years seen many good players and team.  WEst coast, East coast and many good players and teams during the regionals and championship so I do form opinions even though I didn't in that post.  I have not seen much of Southern teams and no I didn't look up the past years pre-season and compare it with the final AA list because I really don't care.  I just didn't think those that were making the selections would be bias of the south or should I say unhonorable.  Those that think the selections are that far of base should select their own AA teams and keep score at the end of the year.  I'll take the one that is selected on this site.  Shawn has no bonus clause in his contract for being selected pre-season or finale AA.  Now if he gets Player of the Year it's a extra peanut butter and jelly sandwich between doubleheaders.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2009, 09:24:55 pm
Actually the West Region locked down 4 slots...

Kitchens, Booher (UT-Tyler), Hedman and Cameron (UOzarks AR).

The South garnered 5...

Boyle, Owen, Miller, Bailey and Willey
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: baseballroxmysox on January 09, 2009, 09:28:46 pm
You're right - I was only thinking actual West Coast - California, Oregon, Washington, not Region. 
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2009, 09:34:33 pm
You're right - I was only thinking actual West Coast - California, Oregon, Washington, not Region. 
A great Pre-season all-American candidate, CMS's Alex Weber-Shapiro, transferred to UCLA this year.

That is the hard thing at this level.  We don't always hear of the transfers, in or out.

One thing to consider is that these players give us something to compare the other 15 or so at each position (roughly the first and second all-region performers who will be named) who are "in that league".
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: ECSUalum on January 09, 2009, 10:18:34 pm
pre-season all american list comes out today hopefully and im looking foward to seeing the south region players that are represented. I expect to see Bailey (cnu) Delvin (LC) and Moore (ncwc) at least represented, and it would be a mistake if all 3 are not atleast on the Honorable Mention team, espeically the VA boys.  Good luck to those three and i hope  and will see if d3baseball really has a honorable pre season all american list

Easy there baseballbaseball......It's just a pre-season list and I know it is an honor to be on it but what is a honorable list?  If your guys are not on it and they are at the end of the year they have then proved your point.  I just don't get the Honorable thing.  People vote on it, do you think these guys and or gals would have a bias against and region or a team.  I don't see it.

DG,   id advice you to look at the history of all the pre-season all american list and then look at the post season all american list before you get on a wall post and tell me or any other person to be easy. Usually people on this site know what they are talking about but i guess they let anyone have a chance to say their word.





If there is anyone on this site who knows what they are talking about it is DGilblair.

For someone with just 25 posts, perhaps you can be a bit more open minded on this topic!!!!

Easy there ECSUalum.....LOL....Many know much more.  I have over the last four years seen many good players and team.  WEst coast, East coast and many good players and teams during the regionals and championship so I do form opinions even though I didn't in that post.  I have not seen much of Southern teams and no I didn't look up the past years pre-season and compare it with the final AA list because I really don't care.  I just didn't think those that were making the selections would be bias of the south or should I say unhonorable.  Those that think the selections are that far of base should select their own AA teams and keep score at the end of the year.  I'll take the one that is selected on this site.  Shawn has no bonus clause in his contract for being selected pre-season or finale AA.  Now if he gets Player of the Year it's a extra peanut butter and jelly sandwich between doubleheaders.

I was hoping it would at least be a peanut butter and fluff, lol
you are correct, unless you have watched all of these fantastic players, multiple times, it is hard to make the callon the preseason AAs.  I suspect there are many deserving players, that do not make the list,  and of course every homey has his favorites ;)
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 09, 2009, 11:39:23 pm

My biggest surprise was no JOE DEVLIN of Lynchburg, on any of the teams, after being 2nd Team AA SP last year as a Junior.  I guess folks are not yet believers since he does not rack up the high K #'s...but again, neither did Maddux.  Joe is a similar type pitcher.
Devlin is kinda fish/kinda fowl.  He went 8-0 in 16 games with 3 saves.  He only pitched 55 innings.  ERA was good at 0.98, but he allowed 43 hits and 12 walks in those 55 innings.

Kitchens' ERA was 0.31; Booher went 11-1 and started 14 games; Bayer (Trinity CT) went 7-0 (ERA1.14, WHIP 0.85) in the regular season for the champs.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 10, 2009, 12:01:47 am
Other than the north portion...not much love for the South Region.  Power numbers appear to count for A LOT for the position players.
Yes, there are some good power numbers in there, but the defense up the middle is respectable too.

Catcher -- Killeen (Trinity CT) had one error in 270 chances!  Brockman was not quite as strong, 6 errors in 220 chances.

2B -- Boyle had 5 errors in 208 chances (.976). Gerdes had 3 errors in 161 chances (.981). White had 4 errors in 162 chances (.975).

SS -- Kolb was unbelievable!  2 errors in 167 chances (.988)!  Kaczrowski had 7 errors in 155 chances (.958). Bailey had 9 errors in 192 chances (.953).

OF -- The 2 best fielding averages among the 6 OF's selected were Youchak (.980 47PO 2A 1E) and D'Alfonso (.971 65PO 3A 2E).

I also found these numbers for fielding...

3B -- Wagle FA .942; 41PO 90A 8E.
1B -- Claugherty FA .986; 256PO 22A 4E
1B -- Hedman FA .990; 356PO, 21A, 4E
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 10, 2009, 12:13:59 am
pre-season all american list comes out today hopefully and im looking foward to seeing the south region players that are represented. I expect to see Bailey (cnu) Delvin (LC) and Moore (ncwc) at least represented, and it would be a mistake if all 3 are not atleast on the Honorable Mention team, espeically the VA boys.  Good luck to those three and i hope  and will see if d3baseball really has a honorable pre season all american list

I chased down Ben Moore's stats to give the readers a perspective of where he stood last year.  Those are good numbers. Maybe he will have a "breakout" year.

Player                 ERA   W-L   APP  GS  CG SHO/CBO SV    IP   H   R  ER  BB  SO  2B  3B  HR   AB B/Avg   WP HBP  BK  SFA SHA

MOORE, Ben..........  3.20   8-2    12  12   4   0/0    0  84.1  91  55  30  22  54  12   0   5  328  .277    5   4   0    4  10
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Old Man on January 10, 2009, 12:50:19 am
How about the Chevaleir kid from KSC?

                                  C      PO   A     E   Fld %  DP's
Jamie Chevalier.....   256  110 141   5   .980      37   

Also one of 9 players to win 'RAWLINGS GOLD GLOVE" award for 2008 and and 1 of 4 that is back for '09.

OM
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 10, 2009, 02:02:36 am
You're right - I was only thinking actual West Coast - California, Oregon, Washington, not Region. 
A great Pre-season all-American candidate, CMS's Alex Weber-Shapiro, transferred to UCLA this year.

That is the hard thing at this level.  We don't always hear of the transfers, in or out.

One thing to consider is that these players give us something to compare the other 15 or so at each position (roughly the first and second all-region performers who will be named) who are "in that league".

If  Alex Weber-Shapiro stayed at CMS he would have been on the preseason team.  The SCIAC has been going through a down period but blame UCLA for taking a true talent off the D3baseball.com preseason All-American list.

For my money look at the Northwest Conference.  Pacific Lutheran, George Fox all bring in eperienced teams with few holes to vie for a spot in Linfield.  Don't count out the Wildcats either.  They proved they belong.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 10, 2009, 02:08:22 am
How about the Chevaleir kid from KSC?

                                  C      PO   A     E   Fld %  DP's
Jamie Chevalier.....   256  110 141   5   .980      37   

Also one of 9 players to win 'RAWLINGS GOLD GLOVE" award for 2008 and and 1 of 4 that is back for '09.

OM


Count me as a Keene State Supporter.  They are always near the top in my list for the region.  They will not have the experience team they had last year but I would not be surprised if they are in Wisconsin this year.

D3baseball.com wrote last year on the New England regional:

What will not be new are the top teams in the New England region. Keene State has been on the doorstep to the baseball championships the last few years but with their playoff experience, our pick to advance to Wisconsin is Eastern Connecticut. Trinity has an experienced squad and will challenge to be the New England representative in Appleton. If they don't take home the ultimate prize, this will be a disappointing season for the Bantams.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: A.G. on January 10, 2009, 07:46:44 am

My biggest surprise was no JOE DEVLIN of Lynchburg, on any of the teams, after being 2nd Team AA SP last year as a Junior.  I guess folks are not yet believers since he does not rack up the high K #'s...but again, neither did Maddux.  Joe is a similar type pitcher.
Devlin is kinda fish/kinda fowl.  He went 8-0 in 16 games with 3 saves.  He only pitched 55 innings.  ERA was good at 0.98, but he allowed 43 hits and 12 walks in those 55 innings.

Kitchens' ERA was 0.31; Booher went 11-1 and started 14 games; Bayer (Trinity CT) went 7-0 (ERA1.14, WHIP 0.85) in the regular season for the champs.

Thanks for making my point...Devlin compares very favorably over Bayer.  Yes, Devlin pitched only 55 IP...but was the team's CLOSER the first 1/4 of the season last year.  Either young man is very worthy...and this way....Devlin does not have to live up to any preseason hype meaning less pressure on him.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: bbnag101 on January 10, 2009, 11:35:21 am

My biggest surprise was no JOE DEVLIN of Lynchburg, on any of the teams, after being 2nd Team AA SP last year as a Junior.  I guess folks are not yet believers since he does not rack up the high K #'s...but again, neither did Maddux.  Joe is a similar type pitcher.
Devlin is kinda fish/kinda fowl.  He went 8-0 in 16 games with 3 saves.  He only pitched 55 innings.  ERA was good at 0.98, but he allowed 43 hits and 12 walks in those 55 innings.

Kitchens' ERA was 0.31; Booher went 11-1 and started 14 games; Bayer (Trinity CT) went 7-0 (ERA1.14, WHIP 0.85) in the regular season for the champs.

Thanks for making my point...Devlin compares very favorably over Bayer.  Yes, Devlin pitched only 55 IP...but was the team's CLOSER the first 1/4 of the season last year.  Either young man is very worthy...and this way....Devlin does not have to live up to any preseason hype meaning less pressure on him.

Being selected is an honor, but also carriers a lot of pressure with it; your teammates, coaches, parents, and fans always expect you to always shine – you’re not allowed to have a bad game.  However, what they seem to sometimes forget, the players are also college students that attend school, study, some work and then you have the long bus ride to the game.

And when you're not at 100% - that's when the other 8 guys step in and help pick you up.  With Devlin being a pitcher, he is going to need all of his teammates support - key catches, covering the hole up the middle, and a catcher who is a brickwall.

AG - he will have no pressure - and he can go out and show all of them that he is a stud.... I wish him good luck.

Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: BigPoppa on January 12, 2009, 10:46:38 am
It is always a crap shoot when predicting pre-season All-American teams. The best you can do is study the past history and use it as a guide for the future teams. Some school always produce a top hitter or pitcher so you can use the past success as a guide for future success in a position (Chapman's pitchers, WIAC hitters, anybody in the NJAC, etc...).

Once in a while, a player comes out of nowhere and has such a dominating season in a respected conference that you have to acknowledge his talent (Brian Kolb, Wheaton, IL). Not a particularly strong baseball history there, but to post those numbers in that conference is quite amazing.

Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Hammer Ball on January 13, 2009, 07:19:47 pm
The 3 D3 players drafted that did not sign professional contracts 1088. Evan Bronson, Trinity (Texas) by Milwaukee (36); 1368. Dean Laganosky, Haverford by Cleveland (45); and 1435. Brett Holland, Texas-Tyler by Oakland (48) might merit watching.  As does Christian Conti of Muhlenberg. (.380, runs (49), triples (11), home runs (11), RBI (60), extra-base hits (29) and total bases (116)).
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2009, 07:33:40 pm
The 3 D3 players drafted that did not sign professional contracts 1088. Evan Bronson, Trinity (Texas) by Milwaukee (36); 1368. Dean Laganosky, Haverford by Cleveland (45); and 1435. Brett Holland, Texas-Tyler by Oakland (48) might merit watching.  As does Christian Conti of Muhlenberg. (.380, runs (49), triples (11), home runs (11), RBI (60), extra-base hits (29) and total bases (116)).
Is Laganosky a junior this year?

Holland and Bronson will get to face some good teams this spring.  We will have a better "feel" for them by late April.  :)
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Hammer Ball on January 13, 2009, 11:08:17 pm
Laganosky is a Sr..  Holland and Bronson must have done something last year to get drafted.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2009, 12:33:55 am
Laganosky is a Sr..  Holland and Bronson must have done something last year to get drafted.
I think that the ASC and SCAC-West are hitters' leagues.  There are some pretty good bats in those leagues, and the scouts can see them against better competition.

I also do not know if they played in wooden bat leagues in 2007 altho' both Trinity and UTTyler do a good job of placing players in those leagues.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: D3Lunatic on January 17, 2009, 11:38:40 pm
Where is Todd Emr's name? He returns for the BlueJays.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2009, 12:07:08 am
I thought that Emr had graduated and left the team!   ???  :)

No intentional slight, I am sure.  The problem in D3 is that there just aren't rampant press releases on who is in and who is out!

Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: D3Lunatic on January 18, 2009, 12:27:37 am
I agree. How does that change the top 25 landscape? Emr was a HUGE part of the BlueJays success. Does any other team have 3 parts like Youchak, Emr, and Angeloni?
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: OshDude on January 18, 2009, 08:35:20 am
I agree. How does that change the top 25 landscape? Emr was a HUGE part of the BlueJays success. Does any other team have 3 parts like Youchak, Emr, and Angeloni?
Yes. Off the top of my head: St. Scholastica, Whitewater, Salisbury, Tyler, Trinity, Thiel and Oshkosh.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 20, 2009, 01:50:03 am
I thought that Emr had graduated and left the team!   ???  :)

No intentional slight, I am sure.  The problem in D3 is that there just aren't rampant press releases on who is in and who is out!



I expect Todd Emr would have been on the D3baseball.com preseason All-American list.  The problem was that he did not appear on the ballot as he was listed as a senior on the previous year.   With as many colleges that play D-III senior usually means graduated and off being pro in their major (or even baseball).

Not a perfect system but at D3baseball.com, we look forward to seeing Emr make a statement in the 2009 season.  I made Emr my vote for MVP in the 2008 Championship before the curse set in.
Title: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 18, 2009, 05:55:24 am
Please look for 2010 Pre-season All-American Teams and post the links here.

Jim Dixon will announce the location of the D3Baseball.com Pre-season All-Americans when they are available.
Title: D3baseball preseason All-Americans
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 18, 2010, 05:45:40 pm
Six players from last year's Mideast Regional have been named part of the D3baseball.com 2010 preseason All-American team released on Monday. Adrian's outfielder Alex Cowart and pitcher Ryan Domschot join Wooster's designated hitter Matt Groezinger and pitcher Justin McDowell along with shortstop Tim Tepe from Rose-Hulman on the first team list. Gar Keen of Heidelberg was named as a second team selection.

more at: http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2010/01/17/7046/mideast-starts-dominate-in-preseason-honors.html
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: cubs on January 19, 2010, 11:46:58 am
I agree. How does that change the top 25 landscape? Emr was a HUGE part of the BlueJays success. Does any other team have 3 parts like Youchak, Emr, and Angeloni?
Yes. Off the top of my head: St. Scholastica, Whitewater, Salisbury, Tyler, Trinity, Thiel and Oshkosh.
Hooper, Coe, and Kuhlman for Whitewater?

Kannenberg, Berger, and N. Fadness for Oshkosh?
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: OshDude on January 19, 2010, 11:54:02 am
I agree. How does that change the top 25 landscape? Emr was a HUGE part of the BlueJays success. Does any other team have 3 parts like Youchak, Emr, and Angeloni?
Yes. Off the top of my head: St. Scholastica, Whitewater, Salisbury, Tyler, Trinity, Thiel and Oshkosh.
Hooper, Coe, and Kuhlman for Whitewater?

Kannenberg, Berger, and N. Fadness for Oshkosh?
Check the date.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-Americans
Post by: cubs on January 20, 2010, 11:42:11 am
I agree. How does that change the top 25 landscape? Emr was a HUGE part of the BlueJays success. Does any other team have 3 parts like Youchak, Emr, and Angeloni?
Yes. Off the top of my head: St. Scholastica, Whitewater, Salisbury, Tyler, Trinity, Thiel and Oshkosh.
Hooper, Coe, and Kuhlman for Whitewater?

Kannenberg, Berger, and N. Fadness for Oshkosh?
Check the date.
OUCH!!!!  Guess I need to look closer next time.

Sorry Dude!!! :-[
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: d3baseballnut on January 26, 2010, 06:44:28 pm
Do voters for Pre-season All-Americans know that Brian Youchak from Hopkins (Double 1st Team All American in 2008) is playing his Senior year this year?

I find it hard to believe that a kid with a career average of .444 and OBPS of 1.178 isnt a preseason All-American.

Youchak 2007-08   AB 184  R 67  H 86  BA 0.467  2B 21  HR  9  SLG  0.750  RBI 59   
Youchak 2008-09   AB 166  R 51  H 73  BA 0.440  2B 16  HR  5  SLG  0.639  RBI 43   
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: OshDude on January 26, 2010, 10:12:10 pm
Do voters for Pre-season All-Americans know that Brian Youchak from Hopkins (Double 1st Team All American in 2008) is playing his Senior year this year?

I find it hard to believe that a kid with a career average of .444 and OBPS of 1.178 isnt a preseason All-American.

Youchak 2007-08   AB 184  R 67  H 86  BA 0.467  2B 21  HR  9  SLG  0.750  RBI 59   
Youchak 2008-09   AB 166  R 51  H 73  BA 0.440  2B 16  HR  5  SLG  0.639  RBI 43   
He made the team, right?
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 26, 2010, 11:23:17 pm
Do voters for Pre-season All-Americans know that Brian Youchak from Hopkins (Double 1st Team All American in 2008) is playing his Senior year this year?

I find it hard to believe that a kid with a career average of .444 and OBPS of 1.178 isnt a preseason All-American.

Youchak 2007-08   AB 184  R 67  H 86  BA 0.467  2B 21  HR  9  SLG  0.750  RBI 59   
Youchak 2008-09   AB 166  R 51  H 73  BA 0.440  2B 16  HR  5  SLG  0.639  RBI 43   
He made the team, right?

Yep Youchak is there.  Check the honorable mentions.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: d3baseballnut on January 27, 2010, 12:19:51 pm
Gotcha....my mistake...
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: Jim Dixon on January 27, 2010, 01:15:36 pm
Gotcha....my mistake...

What I find surprising is the absence of Youchak's name on regional lists in 2009.   
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: RSSmith on January 27, 2010, 07:59:17 pm
Youchak had a good but not great season in 2009.  He did have a huge summer last year in the Prospect League competing with a bucketload of D-1 players (http://www.prospectleague.com), and you may count on him making the most of his senior season at Hopkins. 
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: Midwest33 on February 01, 2010, 12:00:23 am
Here is another problem with the preseason all-American team.  Bethany Lutheran College senior outfielder and relief pitcher Justin schweke is nowhere to be found.  He was an all american last year and has insane stat lines.
19 Schwecke, Justin.  .456  39-39   149  58  68  16   6   4  62  108  .725  23   2  11   1  .520   5   0  20-22    69   6   1  .987
Those numbers speak for themselves.  I am sick of hearing about what teams Bethany plays.  That was a common theme on the boards last year talking about at large bids.  They play who is on the schedule and beat some great teams(RPI, St.Johns - Fisher, St. Scholastica, Wittenburg and Hamline)
Give the kid some credit where credit is due he should be an All-American with his numbers!
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: OshDude on February 01, 2010, 01:13:44 am
Here is another problem with the preseason all-American team.  Bethany Lutheran College senior outfielder and relief pitcher Justin schweke is nowhere to be found.  He was an all american last year and has insane stat lines.
19 Schwecke, Justin.  .456  39-39   149  58  68  16   6   4  62  108  .725  23   2  11   1  .520   5   0  20-22    69   6   1  .987
Those numbers speak for themselves.  I am sick of hearing about what teams Bethany plays.  That was a common theme on the boards last year talking about at large bids.  They play who is on the schedule and beat some great teams(RPI, St.Johns - Fisher, St. Scholastica, Wittenburg and Hamline)
Give the kid some credit where credit is due he should be an All-American with his numbers!
With you 100% on Schwecke. Don't know how many AA votes he got, but I'm sure he got some. Hard to crack that list when an HM AA outfielder from the Midwest Region hit .489 and led the nation with a .602 OBP.

Preseason top-25 votes for BLC? I'm not so sure, and I'm a pretty big CSS/UMAC supporter. The UMAC is improving, but I don't think many people know much about the new-ish conference other than CSS wins a ton, has a ton of talent and for whatever reason loses at regionals. You know how good the ball is at the top of the league. So do some others, but give it time. And concede the fact that there are some subpar teams after the top few.

Expose a team to top comp and win, and you'll see exposure. It's doubtful that BLC's wins over Hamline and Wittenberg in 2009 made anyone take notice. St. Olaf, Buena Vista and, of course, CSS on the '10 schedule are chances to get BLC more exposure. But I'm not sure one 29-10 UMAC season gets a team in the top 25. Heck, CSS has won for more than a decade, has owned the league and has made the NCAA tourney five straight years yet checks in at No. 22.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: Midwest33 on February 01, 2010, 02:46:18 am
BLC's sucess is not a flash in the pan.  As it pertains to CSS when you lose Kummet and Berg and Gobe (dont know the correct spelling) you wont be in the top ten.  Pure and simply it boils down to the fact that aside from the beating BLC took in the first championships of the UMAC tournament, BLC outplayed the Saints that weekend with a lesser team from the mound.  BLC has completely addressed these needs and again lost one bat and no other players.  The season will only tell but i see the power in the UMAC shifting for the first time in the short inception of the conference.
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: DougiesGoinDeep on February 01, 2010, 09:22:49 am
From Baseball America Today:

DIVISION III
TOP 5—HOW THEY'LL FINISH
Rank   Team   2009 Record
1.   St. Thomas (Minn.)   41-13
2.   Trinity (Conn.)   26-5
3.   Kean (N.J.)   39-11
4.   Wooster, Ohio   43-11
5.   Eastern Conn. State   39-8
PLAYERS TO WATCH
C—Patrick Reardon, Sr., Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, N.Y. (.409-10-54).
1B—Mike Celenza, Sr., Salisbury, Md. (.469-12-57).
2B—Mike Moceri, Sr., Kean, N.J. (.433-2-59).
3B—Eric Groff, Sr., Keystone, Pa. (.445-13-58, 16 3B).
SS—Javier Arrieta, Sr., Sul Ross, Texas, State (.461-17-51, 15 SB).
OF—Bo Bell, Sr., Mississippi College (.425-13-73); Bobby Doyon, Jr., Keene, N.H., State (.435-13-72, 12 SB); James Wood, Sr., Trinity, Conn. (.361-4-38, 13 2Bs).
DH—Kent Graham, Sr., Trinity, Conn. (.409-10-54).
UT—Greg Van Sickler, Jr., Shenandoah, Va. (.411-7-66, 10 SB; 9-2, 2.69).
SP—Andrew Mondo, Sr., Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (11-3, 3.03); Matt Schuld, Sr., St. Thomas, Minn. (12-1, 3.25); Noah Solomon, Jr., Trinity, Texas (5-1, 1.94). RP—Steve Matre, Sr., Mount St. Joseph, Ohio (0-1, 0.41, 13 SV, 22 IP/32 SO).
Player of the Year: Greg Van Sickler, rhp/1b, Shenandoah (Va.).
Championship: Eight regionals, campus sites, May 19-23. Eight regional champions advance to CWS, May 28-June 1 at Appleton, Wis. (Fox Cities Stadium).

TOP PROSPECTS, 2010 DRAFT
1. Greg Van Sickler, rhp/1b, Shenandoah (Va.)
2. James Wood, of, Trinity (Conn.)
3. Ryan Demmin, lhp, Wisconsin-Oshkosh

QUICK HITS
• St. Thomas (Minn.), the defending national champion, will have a new coach in 2010, as nine-year assistant coach Chris Olean was named interim coach in January. Dennis Denning, 65, retired in December after having led the Tommies to national titles in 2001 and 2009. St. Thomas either won the regular-season or tournament title in the Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (MIAC) in each of the last 14 years. Denning's clubs went 522-157 (.769) at St. Thomas over 15 seasons. This year's Tommies team returns 20 players from last year's 41-13 club, led by 6-foot-3 senior RHP Matt Schuld, who set a school record with 12 victories last season; closer Brandon Stone, and senior OF Matt Olson (.380-2-25, 10 SB), the Most Outstanding Player of last year's Division III CWS.

• Independent power Chapman (Calif.) returns a pair of key players in two-sport athlete 2B Tyler Hadzinsky and senior OF Ryan Prechtl. Hadzinky was named the athlete of the year for 2008-2009 by D-III independents, doubling baseball player (he batted .376 with a team-best 18 doubles) and soccer goalkeeper (he's posted 0.62 and 0.68 goals against averages the last two seasons). Prechtl hit .315 with seven home runs and is a four-year starter in center field.

• Anderson (Ind.) coach Don Brandon has announced that the 2010 season will be his last. Brandon ranks second among D-III active coaches in wins and is fifth on the all-time list with a 1,075-562 record, after the 2009 club went 22-18.

• Mount St. Joseph senior closer Steve Matre is closing in on some records, as he has racked up 32 saves in three seasons while going 3-7, 1.29 overall. Matre, who has a 110-17 strikeout-walk ratio over 91 innings in three seasons, led the nation in saves a year ago. The Division I career saves record of 53, set by Blair Erickson (UC Irvine), is probably safe. But the D-III record is just 35, set in 2002 by Mike Spavento of Wheaton (Mass.).
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: ECSUalum on February 01, 2010, 11:01:59 am
Dougies,

Nice summary, many thanks, +k
Title: Re: BB: Pre-season All-American Teams
Post by: Midwestfan10 on February 01, 2010, 05:40:42 pm
TOP PROSPECTS, 2010 DRAFT
1. Greg Van Sickler, rhp/1b, Shenandoah (Va.)
2. James Wood, of, Trinity (Conn.)
3. Ryan Demmin, lhp, Wisconsin-Oshkosh

FYI- Ryan Demmin is no longer at Oshkosh.  He transfered to Minnesota State, Mankato after his standout year with the Mankato Moondogs.