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Posting Up (Division III basketball) => Women's Basketball => South Region => Topic started by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2009, 04:08:59 pm

Title: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2009, 04:08:59 pm
The women get their first regional ranking on Wednesday, February 11th.  The women rank 6 teams.

Here are the top 6 by winning percentage of in-region games.

Team.............Conf......In-reg..%age...Overall..In-region losses
1) G'boroUSAC15-01.00016-1None, but has not played a regionally-ranked team
2T Miss CollASC-E16-2.88917-2at McM 75-79, at HPU 56-59
2T UT-DASC-E16-2.88916-3CSB 67-75 OT (n), Miss Coll 64-74
4) RoanokeODAC15-2.88216-2at Lynch 60-61, RMC 43-73
5) OgleSCAC14-2.87518-2at Emory 84-85; at Trinity 72-85
6) VWCODAC13-3.81313-5at Roanoke 60-66, E&H 57-60, at RMC 55-79
******
7T HSUASC-W12-3.80015-3MissColl 68-69; at UT-T 64-83; UT-D 82-83
7T McMASC-W12-3.80014-4at HSU 78-89; UT-D 67-71; at CTX 70-73
9 RMCODAC12-4.75014-4at VWC 62-73; Cabrini 53-60 (n); UMW 50-66 (n); at W&L 66-67
X Trinity TXSCAC-W11-4.73313-6at Redlands 75-84; at Rhodes 58-64; at DPU 57-77; at Centre 69-71
x Maryville TNGSAC10-5.66710-8at Transy 54-66; Olivet 72-74 (n); at Centre 60-71; at G'boro 35-81; at Ogle 58-70

Legend:  CSB - College of St Benedict MN; CTX = Concordia-Texas; DPU = DePauw; E&H = Emory & Henry; G'boro = Greensboro; HPU = Howard Payne U.; HSU - Hardin-Simmons; Lynch = Lynchburg; McM = McMurry; Miss Coll = Mississippi College; Ogle = Oglethorpe; RMC = Randolph-Macon College; UMW = Mary Washington; UT-D = UT-Dallas; UT-T = UT-Tyler; VWC = Virginia Wesleyan; W&L = Washington & Lee.

Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: SabineBBall on February 02, 2009, 12:59:28 am
I am new to all this in region stuff but is CSB - College of St Benedict Minnesota really in the south region? If so where does the north region start, Canada lol?
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2009, 10:17:07 am
I am new to all this in region stuff but is CSB - College of St Benedict Minnesota really in the south region? If so where does the north region start, Canada lol?

I shall borrow this quote from D-Mac...

Quote
This is the easiest way to determine in-region games:
1 - within the "region" that each team is placed in by the NCAA (NE, East, Atlantic, Mid-Atlantic, GL, South, Central, West)
2 - within the NCAA's administrative regions - four of these.  Administrative Region #4 is TX, OK, MO, IL, WI and all points west.  (Administrative Region #3 is LA, AR, TN, KY, IN, MI, OH, WV, VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL , MS)
3 - games played between teams 200 miles from one another - no matter where they play the game

It actually helps us to count WIAC, MIAC, IIAC, CCIW, NWC, etc. games.  UTD got a good win over CSB.

Women's D-III Basketball Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=47)   :)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: hoopstermom on February 02, 2009, 10:52:32 pm
The women get their first regional ranking on Wednesday, February 11th.  The women rank 6 teams.

Here are the top 6 by winning percentage of in-region games.

Team.............Conf......In-reg..%age...Overall..In-region losses
4) RoanokeODAC15-2.88216-2at Lynch 60-61, at RMC 43-73
6) VWCODAC13-3.81313-5at Roanoke 60-66, at E&H 57-60, at RMC 55-79


A couple corrections...
Roanoke's loss to RMC was at home, they will play  RMC in Ashland this Friday
VA Weslyan's loss to E&H was at home too

Question...
Do regional rankings usually fall in line with overall in-region W/L record or is any consideration given to whom their in-region losses were against, since you made a note of listing them?
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2009, 10:57:05 pm
The women get their first regional ranking on Wednesday, February 11th.  The women rank 6 teams.

Here are the top 6 by winning percentage of in-region games.

Team.............Conf......In-reg..%age...Overall..In-region losses
4) RoanokeODAC15-2.88216-2at Lynch 60-61, at RMC 43-73
6) VWCODAC13-3.81313-5at Roanoke 60-66, at E&H 57-60, at RMC 55-79


A couple corrections...
Roanoke's loss to RMC was at home, they will play  RMC in Ashland this Friday
VA Weslyan's loss to E&H was at home too

Question...
Do regional rankings usually fall in line with overall in-region W/L record or is any consideration given to whom their in-region losses were against, since you made a note of listing them?
Thanks for the corrections.  :)

Usually they fall in line, because the other criteria, i.e., OWP/OOWP, results versus regionally ranked opponents, tend to have an impact on the in-region W/L.

If there is a discrepancy, we can usually see what it is.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: #1HOOPSFAN on February 06, 2009, 02:40:19 pm
I think Ferrum College should be included in your list. They are 14-4 overall and should be 12-4 in the region. Their loses came to Ogelthorpe, Marymount, Roanoke, and Greensboro. Marymount is not a South Region team, but I think they fall within the mileage range to count as an in-region game for Ferrum.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 06, 2009, 02:50:03 pm
I think Ferrum College should be included in your list. They are 14-4 overall and should be 12-4 in the region. Their loses came to Ogelthorpe, Marymount, Roanoke, and Greensboro. Marymount is not a South Region team, but I think they fall within the mileage range to count as an in-region game for Ferrum.
Marymount is in-region, because they are in the state of Virginia, which is administrative region #3.

When I revise the list on Sunday, I will consider them for the watch list.

I have included those beyond 6th as a 'watch list".   :) Thanks
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2009, 08:50:31 pm
I think Ferrum College should be included in your list. They are 14-4 overall and should be 12-4 in the region. Their loses came to Ogelthorpe, Marymount, Roanoke, and Greensboro. Marymount is not a South Region team, but I think they fall within the mileage range to count as an in-region game for Ferrum.
Ferrum takes a loss at Methodist that they cannot afford, for Pool C sake.

To earn a tourney bid, Ferrum needs to go 3-0 in the tourney.

Otherwise, I think that (12-5  plus winning out the season and going 2-1 in the tourney to finish 7-1 equals ) 19-6 is too many in-region losses to get a Pool C bid.

(This opinion is coming from an ASC fan where there are 6 teams that are currently 12-6 -- .667 or better in South Region games.)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: #1HOOPSFAN on February 11, 2009, 03:40:31 pm
You are right. I think the Methodist lost did Ferrum in for an at-large bid. They now need to win the tournament. Before that loss they only had loses to teams that should be ranked very high regionally. That is why it is so important to win the games that you should win. You can't afford to have any bad nights. If they had won against Roanoke and not slipped up against Methodist they might have been in the picture.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2009, 07:11:22 pm
Please check out the front page blog.

There are 18 Pool C teams listed in the current Regional Rankings.

There will be a few Pool A's that become Pool C's to teams that are not in the regional rankings.

If your team is not on this first regional rankings, then you are in an incredibly deep hole.

Win your tourney!
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2009, 12:48:22 am
The women have one bye to give.

As we look as who can be bussed where, Oglethorpe could host Greensboro (A from USAC), Maryville TN (A from GSAC) and Mississippi College (A/C from ASC).

UT-Dallas and McMurry look like travel orphans, unless UTD hosts MissColl and Thomas More is sent to Oglethorpe (445 miles).
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: shsfan on February 14, 2009, 12:40:56 pm
Ralph - an educated guess please. Is a 25-3 RC team with an ODAC tounament final loss to RMC in? Thanks.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2009, 01:18:08 pm
Ralph - an educated guess please. Is a 25-3 RC team with an ODAC tounament final loss to RMC in? Thanks.

Quote
South Region
1. Oglethorpe 15-2 19-2
2. Texas-Dallas 18-2 18-3
3. Greensboro 17-0 18-1
4. Roanoke 18-2 19-2
5. McMurry 15-3 17-4
6. Mississippi College 17-3 18-3


I think that Roanoke (25-3/ 23-3 in-region) in your scenario is in.

They are regionally ranked now.  Oglethorpe must contend with DePauw in the SCAC tourney.  Greensboro probably wins the USA South.

UT-Dallas, McMurry, Mississippi College and 6 other very strong teams are fighting for 8 slots in the ASC.

When we get to the tourney, can the committee not give a first round host to an (in-region) undefeated Greensboro?  What else can you ask a team to do among primary criteria?

Thanks.  :)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2009, 09:39:15 pm
South Region -- Updated thru 2/14
1. Oglethorpe 15-2 19-2  (16-2 20-2; Beat Rhodes; hosts BSC on Sun)
2. Texas-Dallas 18-2 18-3 (20-2; 20-3; Won at UOzarks; beat UT-Tyler in OT)
3. Greensboro 17-0 18-1 (20-0 21-1; Beat Ferrum; won at Peace; beat NCWC)
4. Roanoke 18-2 19-2  (19-2 21-2; Beat Bennett/USCAA; won at E&H)
5. McMurry 15-3 17-4  (16-4; 18-5; Won at Sul Ross St; lost at Howard Payne)
6. Mississippi College 17-3 18-3 (19-3 20-3; Won at LeTU; won at ETBU)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: nash on February 18, 2009, 09:27:09 pm
The new regional rankings are in and MC is dropped out of them.  I don't understand how McMurray can lose and still be ranked.  UtD is ranked 2nd and MC beat them and if the refs hadn't been so selective in their shooting foul calls when they played at Dallas(UTD was 23/26 FT to MC's 4/6), MC would have won again.  Ralph if you are right that if you don't have a regional ranking you won't get a bid, then it seems to me that the rankings committee selects who they want to be ranked. As I said before the only way for MC to make the tournament is win the ASC. 
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: SabineBBall on February 18, 2009, 10:53:31 pm
The new regional rankings are in and MC is dropped out of them.  I don't understand how McMurray can lose and still be ranked.  UtD is ranked 2nd and MC beat them and if the refs hadn't been so selective in their shooting foul calls when they played at Dallas(UTD was 23/26 FT to MC's 4/6), MC would have won again.  Ralph if you are right that if you don't have a regional ranking you won't get a bid, then it seems to me that the rankings committee selects who they want to be ranked. As I said before the only way for MC to make the tournament is win the ASC. 

Funny how when I said free throws were the difference after the game in Mississippi you defended it.  Shoe was on the other foot and now free throw difference does matter lol
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on February 18, 2009, 11:00:35 pm
Does the NCAA publish the members of each regional committee? I haven't seen that anywhere. I also wish they would publish the RPI numbers so fans can see what the committee sees, because on paper I just don't see a possible explanation for this week's south regional rankings.

South
1. Oglethorpe 21-2 16-2
2. Texas-Dallas 20-3 20-2
3. Greensboro 21-1 20-0
4. Roanoke 21-2 19-2
5. Randolph-Macon 18-5 15-4
6. McMurry 18-5 16-4

NR. MS College 20-3, 19-3

251 Mississippi College  19-3  .864  .489  .499 
141 McMurry              16-4  .800  .523  .499
107 Randolph-Macon    15-4  .750  .535  .507 

MC has one less loss than McMurry and RM, and has three more wins than McMurry and four more than Randolph Macon. And looking over Pat's published OWP and OOWP numbers, I don't see how that happens. RM and McMurry are both a bit better than MC in OWP and OOWP, but it's not by a huge margin. I know the OWP and OOWP play a large role and other criteria can be used if the rankings are close, but the team regional records are significantly different.

Usually I can see the method behind the rankings, but this one has me scratching my head.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: SabineBBall on February 18, 2009, 11:19:40 pm
I agree Chris but it appears the OWP and OOWP are huge factors because MC would also get some extra credit for beating a ranked regional team UTD.  I am not sure if MCMurry has beat someone else or not?
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: nash on February 18, 2009, 11:36:07 pm
In the game at Clinton two of MC's post players shot 2/3's of the free throws while at Richardson UTD the FT were split pretty even among 5 players.  Any way you want to look at it I hope UTD and MC meet in the finals because it will be a good game.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: FlightofthePetrel on February 19, 2009, 12:19:53 am

When we get to the tourney, can the committee not give a first round host to an (in-region) undefeated Greensboro?  What else can you ask a team to do among primary criteria?

Thanks.  :)

Granted you can only play who the schedule puts forth but you could ask them to play a tougher schedule.  I wouldn't reward a team just because they went undefeated.  If you gave Oglethorpe or DPU that same schedule I bet you would have 2 more undefeated seasons.  Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking Greensboro at all... they drilled Maryville (who is a common opponent) much harder than OU did.  This Oglethorpe team has made it to the tourney the past 4 years and it truly would be a shame if this senior class graduated without hosting some sort of NCAA sectional...
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: SabineBBall on February 19, 2009, 05:02:49 pm
In the game at Clinton two of MC's post players shot 2/3's of the free throws while at Richardson UTD the FT were split pretty even among 5 players.  Any way you want to look at it I hope UTD and MC meet in the finals because it will be a good game.

I am just wondering if you were in Dallas for the game?  If you were the reason MC post players didn't get to shot any free throws especially in the 2nd half was because UTD did a heck of a job keeping them from getting the ball.  Best team post defense by UTD all season in my opinion.  Hard to shot the ball or get fouled without the ball.  We can both hope the get to see ech other again.  That would be good news for both teams and the East.  East has got to break that streak sometime!!!
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2009, 05:32:04 pm
South Region -- Updated thru 2/14
1. Oglethorpe 15-2 19-2  (16-2 20-2; Beat Rhodes; hosts BSC on Sun)
2. Texas-Dallas 18-2 18-3 (20-2; 20-3; Won at UOzarks; beat UT-Tyler in OT)
3. Greensboro 17-0 18-1 (20-0 21-1; Beat Ferrum; won at Peace; beat NCWC)
4. Roanoke 18-2 19-2  (19-2 21-2; Beat Bennett/USCAA; won at E&H)
5. McMurry 15-3 17-4  (16-4; 18-5; Won at Sul Ross St; lost at Howard Payne)
6. Mississippi College 17-3 18-3 (19-3 20-3; Won at LeTU; won at ETBU)

Quote
Regional Rankings Feb 18th

South Region In-Region Record Overall Record
1. Oglethorpe 16-2 21-2
2. Texas-Dallas 20-2 20-3
3. Greensboro 20-0 21-1
4. Roanoke 19-2 21-2
5. Randolph-Macon 15-4 18-5
6. McMurry 16-4 18-5

The new regional rankings are in and MC is dropped out of them.  I don't understand how McMurray can lose and still be ranked.  UtD is ranked 2nd and MC beat them and if the refs hadn't been so selective in their shooting foul calls when they played at Dallas(UTD was 23/26 FT to MC's 4/6), MC would have won again.  Ralph if you are right that if you don't have a regional ranking you won't get a bid, then it seems to me that the rankings committee selects who they want to be ranked. As I said before the only way for MC to make the tournament is win the ASC. 

A "selective ref-ing" comment from a Mississippi College fan?

ROTFLMAO   :D

Probably 14/15ths of the ASC thinks that your refs are from a different planet!   ;)

Actually Randolph Macon displaced us both!

I don't think that Mississippi College is #7; they are probably #6.1.

McMurry's loss was to HPU, which is a good team.  We also don't know what happened with the other OWP/OOWP numbers for McMurry and Mississippi College.  McMurry still has the head-to-head over MissColl.

My complaint with the women is that I think that the women need to rank 8 teams (56 South Region teams divided by 6.5 teams per bid = 8+).  Then we might see either Miss College or HSU.

The ASC teams have beaten ourselves up.  We don't have quite enough out-of-conference in-region wins to boost our OWP/OOWP's as we see in the UAA.

The ASC may get one Pool C bid.  Two would be great, but I am not counting on it.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2009, 05:41:00 pm

When we get to the tourney, can the committee not give a first round host to an (in-region) undefeated Greensboro?  What else can you ask a team to do among primary criteria?

Thanks.  :)

Granted you can only play who the schedule puts forth but you could ask them to play a tougher schedule.  I wouldn't reward a team just because they went undefeated.  If you gave Oglethorpe or DPU that same schedule I bet you would have 2 more undefeated seasons.  Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking Greensboro at all... they drilled Maryville (who is a common opponent) much harder than OU did.  This Oglethorpe team has made it to the tourney the past 4 years and it truly would be a shame if this senior class graduated without hosting some sort of NCAA sectional...

Hosting a sectional?  Here is the handbook,  Page 7 to be specific.

Quote
Site Selection
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria
for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather,
accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to
assure fiscal responsibility.

Learn those words.  Search for them in the handbook.  It is what drives the NCAA bean-counters.  ;)

Right now, Greensboro is ranked higher than Roanoke and Randolph-Macon.  If we send Maryville there, then we have 4-teams.

What four teams are within 500 miles of Oglethorpe?  Greensboro, Maryville TN, Oglethorpe and Roanoke?  Maybe that is a first-round bracket.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2009, 05:51:15 pm
There are 63 bids and the NCAA doesn't rank 63 women's teams total so I think many unranked teams will get in, some even with at-large bids.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2009, 05:58:43 pm
Does the NCAA publish the members of each regional committee? I haven't seen that anywhere. I also wish they would publish the RPI numbers so fans can see what the committee sees, because on paper I just don't see a possible explanation for this week's south regional rankings.

South
1. Oglethorpe 21-2 16-2
2. Texas-Dallas 20-3 20-2
3. Greensboro 21-1 20-0
4. Roanoke 21-2 19-2
5. Randolph-Macon 18-5 15-4
6. McMurry 18-5 16-4

NR. MS College 20-3, 19-3

251 Mississippi College  19-3  .864  .489  .499  In-region results vs. regionally ranked teams McMurry Loss; UTD W/L
141 McMurry              16-4  .800  .523  .499 MissColl W; UTD Loss
107 Randolph-Macon    15-4  .750  .535  .507  Roanoke W/L; Mary Washinigton L; (Alvernia W)

MC has one less loss than McMurry and RM, and has three more wins than McMurry and four more than Randolph Macon. And looking over Pat's published OWP and OOWP numbers, I don't see how that happens. RM and McMurry are both a bit better than MC in OWP and OOWP, but it's not by a huge margin. I know the OWP and OOWP play a large role and other criteria can be used if the rankings are close, but the team regional records are significantly different.

Usually I can see the method behind the rankings, but this one has me scratching my head.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: nash on February 19, 2009, 09:08:39 pm
Ralph,
The humorous thing about the refs who work the MC home games come mostly from East Texas and Louisiana.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: FlightofthePetrel on February 20, 2009, 12:04:03 am


Hosting a sectional?  Here is the handbook,  Page 7 to be specific.

Quote
Site Selection
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria
for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather,
accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to
assure fiscal responsibility.

Learn those words.  Search for them in the handbook.  It is what drives the NCAA bean-counters.  ;)

Right now, Greensboro is ranked higher than Roanoke and Randolph-Macon.  If we send Maryville there, then we have 4-teams.

What four teams are within 500 miles of Oglethorpe?  Greensboro, Maryville TN, Oglethorpe and Roanoke?  Maybe that is a first-round bracket.
[/quote]

I understand that... just saying it would be nice to see them host a game.  I'm sure every other team is muttering those same words as well.  We'll just have to see how it all shakes out.  OU still has a possible 5 games left before selection day- alot can happen!
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2009, 12:28:10 am
Petrel, you might get a sectional if you can host some travel orphans.

UT-Dallas women lost vs. ETBU tonight, so that drops the Lady Comets in the South Region Rankings!

That builds the case for OU nationally.  Sweeping the SCAC tourney also builds the case.

HPU hosted last year, because they were undefeated and the Hope Men were in DeVos that weekend and so Hope Women had to go on the road.

Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on February 20, 2009, 08:42:55 am
A "selective ref-ing" comment from a Mississippi College fan?

ROTFLMAO   :D

Probably 14/15ths of the ASC thinks that your refs are from a different planet!   ;)


Ralph,
   I hope you don't really think the officiating at MC is any different than when we have to go on the road. Playing on the road in the ASC is what it is for everyone, it's no different for us travelling through Texas, and yes even visiting McMurry. For many reasons, winning on the road in this league is arguably the hardest in the country.
   And Nash is right that on many occasions the refs at our games are from out of state, which has especially been the case for our men this year. 
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2009, 09:04:56 am
Chris, are there not enough referees for MC games that live within a 100 mile radius of Clinton?  :)
(Sorry for the "modify" on Chris' post.  I was trying to correct the punctuation on my post and accidentally hit Chris'.  His post is unchanged.)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on February 20, 2009, 10:27:30 am
Chris, are there not enough referees for MC games that live within a 100 mile radius of Clinton?  :)
(Sorry for the "modify" on Chris' post.  I was trying to correct the punctuation on my post and accidentally hit Chris'.  His post is unchanged.)

Ralph,
   The women have had a normal year with officiating. We've had a few out of state guys but a lot of MS officials. We've gotten a lot of calls at home and we've gotten none on the road. That is normal and probably what most schools experience. We've outscored teams by 80 at the free throw line at home, and been outscored by 50 on the road.
   The men have had a unique year with a lot of out of state officals doing our home games. We've gotten very few calls at home and fewer on the road. At home we've shot and made the exact same number of free throws as our opponents, but on the road we've been outscored by 30.
    We have a lot of quality officials around here, several who do DI and DII in addition to ours. I have no idea why we have so many TX, LA and AR guys doing our games this year and would hate to speculate because there could be a legitimate reason. But I'm sure other ASC coaches would not be happy seeing us come to town with a couple MS officals doing our games, but that has often been the case for our home games this year.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2009, 09:39:15 pm
at DPU (Great Lakes Region) 92, Oglethorpe (South Region) 86

We Oglethorpe chasers got a gift from Greencastle.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2009, 08:48:31 pm
Ralph,
The humorous thing about the refs who work the MC home games come mostly from East Texas and Louisiana.
Yeah, I guess so.  Y'all must have gotten several crews out of Texas this season.

The MissColl men lost three conference games at home this year.  That college career's worth for some recent Choctaw players!    :D
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2009, 09:02:51 pm
South Region In-Region Record Overall Record

1. Oglethorpe 16-2 21-2 16-3 21-3; Lost at DePauw 86-92; plays at Centre 2/22
2. Texas-Dallas 20-2 20-3 21-3 21-4; Lost at ETBU 50-56; won at LeTU, 57-44
3. Greensboro 20-0 21-1  23-0 24-1; Won at Meredith 91-64; at Shenandoah 76-46; at CNU 75-73.
4. Roanoke 19-2 21-2 20-3 22-3;  Lost to W&L 54-65; won at EMU 87-62
5. Randolph-Macon 15-4 18-5 17-4 20-5; Won at Guilford 80-49; at E&H 71-59
6. McMurry 16-4 18-5 18-4 20-5; Won at TLU 85-64; at Schreiner 83-61.

Corrections appreciated.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: airball1 on February 21, 2009, 10:25:39 pm
Score correction: Depauw 92 Oglethorpe 86
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on February 21, 2009, 11:37:52 pm
Ralph:

Two questions:

What do you think the new regional rankings will look like? (if any changes)

If the current regional ranked teams don't win their conference tournament, who will be in as Pool C team? 
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2009, 12:05:55 am
Ralph:

Two questions:

What do you think the new regional rankings will look like? (if any changes)

If the current regional ranked teams don't win their conference tournament, who will be in as Pool C team? 
Good evening, Guy.

I wish I had Patrick Abegg's list for the women!

As much as I would like to believe in Greensboro, I am very suspicious of them.

McMurry women played them last year and beat them 21 points on the road!

(We are essentially the same team, except Tarra Richardson has been replaced by a D2 transfer sophomore, Anna Berthel.  The five juniors getting big minutes last year are solid seniors in a rotation that sees 12 players getting double-digit minutes.  Altho' HPU graduated Meia Daniels, the ASC is deeper as a conference this season.)

I don't figure out the women's committee as easily as the men's.  I seem to like the women's brackets better tho'.  I also wish that the women ranked 8 teams instead of 6.

On the numbers, I think that Greensboro stays at #3.  They have no games versus regionally ranked opponents. If Greensboro had played in-region opponents such as Roanoke or Mary Washington or Marymount VA or in-region ranked opponents* from the Great Lakes Region, the Pride could make a stronger case.

Quote
In-region opponents for Greensboro from the Great Lakes Region

1. Hope 16-1 20-1
2. Thomas More 17-2 21-2
3. DePauw 13-3 19-4
4. Wash. & Jeff. 16-3 20-3
5. Transylvania 16-3 18-5
6. Capital 16-4 16-5

Massey Ratings MOV (http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw&sub=III&mid=1) has Greensboro as #43 and behind South Region teams MissCollege, McMurry, Oglethorpe, UT-Dallas, Hardin-Simmons and Howard Payne.

As an ASC fan, I am hoping to get as many teams as we can get.  I guess that I am rooting for Greensboro to run the tourney so as not to take a Pool C bid.  As crude as it is, I think that there are 15 Pool C bids in the Regionally Ranked teams now, and Pool C sleepers from the ASC, the WIAC, the NESCAC and the SCAC.


Plain ol' Massey (http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw&yr=2009&sub=III&mid=6) has Greensboro #67!   :-\
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on February 22, 2009, 08:58:36 am
Ralph:
My questions weren’t directed specifically for Greensboro.  I wanted to know about the south in general.  I wasn’t trying to make a case for Greensboro.  It seems from what you wrote that Greensboro is the only regionally ranked team that doesn’t make it as a Pool C.

Since you did mention McMurry-Greensboro game from last year, I guess I will explain the difference from last year to this year.  Greensboro was missing 30.9 ppg from last year to this year.  I guess that means they would beat McMurry by 9 or 10.  Could be more from the defense those two players bring to the games.  Greensboro has 10 players that play double digit minutes, but only have 13 players on the team.

I can’t say whether Greensboro is overrated or underrated because it isn’t up to me.  Greensboro will just play and answer that on the court.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2009, 09:39:56 am
Thanks for the response and let me try again. (Sorry I misunderstood the question.)

Ralph:

Two questions:

What do you think the new regional rankings will look like? (if any changes)

I think that the Regional Rankings look like this on Wednesday.

1) Oglethorpe
2) Greensboro
3) UT-Dallas  (Maybe UTD falls after the ETBU loss.)
4) RMC
5) Roanoke
6) McMurry


If the current regional ranked teams don't win their conference tournament, who will be in as Pool C team? 

Pool C's who make the tourney if they lose in the conference tourney finals.

Oglethorpe  (8-team tourney SCAC)
Greensboro  (two games in the USAC)
UTD             (8-team tourney in the ASC)
RMC             (three games in the ODAC)
Roanoke       (three games in the ODAC)
McMurry       (8-team tourney in the ASC)


Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: nash on February 22, 2009, 02:02:16 pm
Ralph,  I have a couple of questions about the regional rankings.  First, (and I know that the OWP and OOWP figure in) but let's look at MC and McM against the same opponents in the ASC.  MC is 17-3 and McM is 17-4.  That's says MC is the better team and should be ranked over McM.  I know you are going to say that McM beat MC but look at the losses:  MC split with UTD, lost to HPU and McM; McM lost to UTD, split with HPU, HSU and CTX.  The difference is CTX, MC beat them by 19 points when the best that McM could do was split games.
Second:  Do you think that MC is not good enough to be ranked regionally?
Lastly:  Ralph are you the person on the regional ranking committee from the ASC who is keeping McM ranked so they can get a bid. 
As I stated earlier the only way MC will get to the NCAA tournament is to win the ASC tournament otherwise the committee will pick who it wants.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on February 22, 2009, 02:53:18 pm
Thanks for the response and let me try again. (Sorry I misunderstood the question.)

Ralph:

Two questions:

What do you think the new regional rankings will look like? (if any changes)

I think that the Regional Rankings look like this on Wednesday.

1) Oglethorpe
2) Greensboro
3) UT-Dallas  (Maybe UTD falls after the ETBU loss.)
4) RMC
5) Roanoke
6) McMurry


If the current regional ranked teams don't win their conference tournament, who will be in as Pool C team? 

Pool C's who make the tourney if they lose in the conference tourney finals.

Oglethorpe  (8-team tourney SCAC)
Greensboro  (two games in the USAC)
UTD             (8-team tourney in the ASC)
RMC             (three games in the ODAC)
Roanoke       (three games in the ODAC)
McMurry       (8-team tourney in the ASC)



Ralph,
   I don't see any way in which McMurry stays ahead of MS College in this week's ranking. MC will have a significant edge in the win/loss record (which I think should carry more weight than it apparently does), but should also have a better strength of schedule considering MC played two tough opponents and McMurry played two bad ones. Playing a 1-23 Schreiner team to end the season should damage McMurry's OWP number.
   I have a question though. Do you know the calculation the NCAA uses to come up with the RPI using win/loss record, the OWP and the OOWP? I haven't seen it published anywhere.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2009, 03:37:28 pm
Ralph,  I have a couple of questions about the regional rankings.  First, (and I know that the OWP and OOWP figure in) but let's look at MC and McM against the same opponents in the ASC.  MC is 17-3 and McM is 17-4.  That's says MC is the better team and should be ranked over McM.  I know you are going to say that McM beat MC but look at the losses:  MC split with UTD, lost to HPU and McM; McM lost to UTD, split with HPU, HSU and CTX.  The difference is CTX, MC beat them by 19 points when the best that McM could do was split games.


Second:  Do you think that MC is not good enough to be ranked regionally?

Lastly:  Ralph are you the person on the regional ranking committee from the ASC who is keeping McM ranked so they can get a bid.
 
As I stated earlier the only way MC will get to the NCAA tournament is to win the ASC tournament otherwise the committee will pick who it wants.

Let's take the last question first.

Handbook, page 9 (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/basketball/2009/3_wbasketball_handbook.pdf) has the national committee members.  Page 39 has the Regional Committee members.  Nope, not me.  ;)  :) 

All of the answers are in the Handbook.

First question next...

Here are the criteria that the committee uses in their weekly ranking session.  (Handbook pp 16.)

Quote
Selection Criteria.

Primary Criteria

The primary criteria emphasize regional competition (all contests leading up to NCAA
championships); all criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order).
• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
- Opponents’ Average Winning Percentage (OWP).
- Opponents’ Opponents’ Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).
• See Appendix F for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results versus common regional opponents.
• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.
Note:
• Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at the time of the
rankings/selection process only.
• Conference postseason contests are included.
• Contests versus provisional and reclassifying members in their third and
fourth years shall count in the primary criteria. Provisional and reclassifying
members shall remain ineligible for rankings and selection.

Secondary Criteria

If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision, the secondary
criteria will be reviewed. All the criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority
order). The secondary criteria introduce results against out-of-region Division III and all
other opponents including those contests versus opponents from other classifications (i.e.,
provisionals, NAIA, NCAA Divisions I and II).
• Out-of-region head-to-head competition.
• Overall Division III win-loss percentage.
• Results versus common non Division III opponents.
• Results versus all Division III ranked teams.
• Overall win-loss percentage.
• Results versus all common opponents.
• Overall DIII Strength of Schedule.
• Should a committee find that evaluation of a team’s win-loss percentage
during the last 25 percent of the season is applicable (i.e., end of
season performance), it may adopt such criteria with approval from the
championships committee.
Additionally, input is provided by regional advisory committees for consideration by
the women’s basketball committee. In order to be considered for selection for Pools B or
C, an institution must play at least 50 percent of its competition against Division III inregion
opponents. Coaches’ polls and/or any other outside polls or rankings are not used
as a selection criterion by the women’s basketball committee for selection purposes.

Margin of victory, Massey ratings and D3hoops.com Top 25 are not part of the criteria.

Second question last...

Yes I think that MC is good enough to be ranked regionally. (In the eyes of the committee, they are probably 7th.) My complaint with the women's committee is that they only rank 6, (publicly, whether that is the case or not.)  I wish that they would rank 15% of the teams in a region as they do in many other sports.  In fact, I don't think that the ASC gets enough respect by virtue of how hard it is to schedule non-conference in-region teams when the conference mandates single round-robin inter-division/double round-robin intra-division schedules at the conference's direction.  Those mandated dates eliminate opportunities to play quality in-region games in November, December and early January.  I think that MissColl assembled a very good schedule.  To make it better, I recommend bringing in quality opponents like UMHB did (Baldwin-Wallace and Southern Maine) and as McMurry, HPU, and HSU has done with Southwestern and Trinity in the past.  Millsaps and MC or LaColl and MC could bring in-region opponents from the OAC or the Michigan IAA or the HCAC to boost the OOWP/OWP.

As for the 17-3/17-4 that is mandated by the ASC, get your AD and both of your head coaches to change the "mandated" 20/21 game schedule.  I agree that we will probably end up playing 20/21 games most years, just don't mandate the dates which take those dates off the schedule as possible dates for your coaches to pick better games. 

This is the real crux of the conference.  SRSU, Schreiner and TLU need the games, as I suppose UOzarks and LaCollege need the games, too.  We play the mandated 20-21.  Dec 4th Dec 6th is off the table at dates for non-conference games.

Replacing SU (1-24) and TLU (7-18) with a road trip to Maryville TN (16-8) and Emory (12-10) really improves the OWP/OOWP.  That change in mandated 20/21 to something more flexible and probably won't happen, because that decision is made at the presidents' level.

While we are talking presidents, let's split the conference in half.

That would take about 7 new sports at about 4 schools to achieve.  (I have my notes at home.) Then, the "ASC" has 2 Pool A bids in M/W Soccer, Volleyball, M/W Basketball, M/W Tennis, Baseball, and Softball!  And most of those sports are very inexpensive sports to add (Cross country, Tennis, Track and Field), or add women's sports like volleyball.   :)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2009, 03:41:43 pm
Thanks for the response and let me try again. (Sorry I misunderstood the question.)

Ralph:

Two questions:

What do you think the new regional rankings will look like? (if any changes)

I think that the Regional Rankings look like this on Wednesday.

1) Oglethorpe
2) Greensboro
3) UT-Dallas  (Maybe UTD falls after the ETBU loss.)
4) RMC
5) Roanoke
6) McMurry


If the current regional ranked teams don't win their conference tournament, who will be in as Pool C team? 

Pool C's who make the tourney if they lose in the conference tourney finals.

Oglethorpe  (8-team tourney SCAC)
Greensboro  (two games in the USAC)
UTD             (8-team tourney in the ASC)
RMC             (three games in the ODAC)
Roanoke       (three games in the ODAC)
McMurry       (8-team tourney in the ASC)



Ralph,
   I don't see any way in which McMurry stays ahead of MS College in this week's ranking. MC will have a significant edge in the win/loss record (which I think should carry more weight than it apparently does), but should also have a better strength of schedule considering MC played two tough opponents and McMurry played two bad ones. Playing a 1-23 Schreiner team to end the season should damage McMurry's OWP number.
   I have a question though. Do you know the calculation the NCAA uses to come up with the RPI using win/loss record, the OWP and the OOWP? I haven't seen it published anywhere.
Hi Chris, OWP/OOWP are in Appendix G (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/basketball/2009/3_wbasketball_handbook.pdf) of the Handbook.  :)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on February 22, 2009, 03:51:24 pm
Hi Chris, OWP/OOWP are in Appendix G (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/basketball/2009/3_wbasketball_handbook.pdf) of the Handbook.  :)

Ralph,
   I know how to get the OWP and the OOWP numbers. But do you know if the NCAA uses a formula to come up with an RPLI from the win/loss pct., the OWP and the OOWP. I'm also glad the QOWI is gone but it did produce a number the committee's almost always went with. I wonder if the committees are seeing a similiar RPI number now.

   I ask because with the QOWI number carried a lot of value, and other criteria such as head to head, or record against region were only used if the QOWI numbers were very close. I would think a similiar RPI number is being produced from the win/loss pct, OWP and OOWP, and the other criteria brought into play if the number is very close.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2009, 04:01:58 pm
Chris MC's OWP .495; OOWP .498 thru all games.

McMurry's is .513 and .498 before the SU game.

The Strength of Schedule calculation that D3hoops.com has figured (and it may not be an official statistic) is 226 for MC and 173 for McM (without the SU game.)

I don't know how those numbers are being used.  I hope that that will be covered in a Hoopsville interview.  :)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: FlightofthePetrel on February 22, 2009, 05:00:03 pm
Oglethorpe hangs on against Centre 79-75 to earn a split in this weekends games.  Next up the Conference Tournament!

Sorry to Ralph and all the South region fans rooting against us ;)  the girls want it to much this year.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on February 22, 2009, 05:01:26 pm
Chris MC's OWP .495; OOWP .498 thru all games.

McMurry's is .513 and .498 before the SU game.

The Strength of Schedule calculation that D3hoops.com has figured (and it may not be an official statistic) is 226 for MC and 173 for McM (without the SU game.)

I don't know how those numbers are being used.  I hope that that will be covered in a Hoopsville interview.  :)


Without looking at the regional records of each opponent, I would guess that MC will be slightly above .500 in OWP and McMurry below .500 when the final numbers are tallied. That is off the D3hoops numbers for strength of schedule. If that is the case, then I don't see McMurry staying ahead of MC. It could be very important if they both have similiar performances in the ASC tourney and are competing for a pool C bid.

Having Schreiner on the schedule twice really hurts the schedule numbers for the LIB.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: nash on February 22, 2009, 05:05:41 pm
Ralph,
The selection criteria covers tournament selection, there isn't anything listed about regional ranking criteria.  It just says the committee will release regional rankings 3 times and I am sure the committee draws upon the regional advisors to rank the teams.  The regional rankings only have six slots so 7th doesn't count.  
As for as strength of schedule looking at the d3hoops table most of MC's opponents had higher str of sch than MC so how did we end up lower when we beat most of them?
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2009, 09:32:03 pm
Ralph,
The selection criteria covers tournament selection, there isn't anything listed about regional ranking criteria.  It just says the committee will release regional rankings 3 times and I am sure the committee draws upon the regional advisors to rank the teams.  The regional rankings only have six slots so 7th doesn't count.  
As for as strength of schedule looking at the d3hoops table most of MC's opponents had higher str of sch than MC so how did we end up lower when we beat most of them?
Good evening, nash.

The regional rankings are done offline for a couple of times and then they are published by these criteria three times.  (I think that Coach Jones was on the committee about a decade ago.  This is old hat to the coaches who have been around for a while.  All of this is in the Handbook, with references to other documents.  Yes, it is written in NCAA-ese, but it happens like this for every team sport in every season.)

Yes, I have been told and I have heard in interviews on Hoopsville over the last four-five years that they have teams that are "off the table" if the supply of ranked teams is exhausted.

Millsaps and Piedmont played some weak teams.  It seems that the loser of the game ends up with the higher strength of schedule. 

Let's see where MC ends up this Wednesday.

If I were a betting man, I would say that UTD gets a Pool C bid if they win in round one and lose to HSU in the semis.  I think that McMurry, MissColl, HSU and HPU earn a Pool C bid if they make it to the finals.  Yes, MissColl, HSU and HPU are off the table, but they get quality wins by getting to the finals.  I think we get two bids, an "A" and a "C", maybe a "C" plus UTD as a "C".

HPU has 2 good wins over Colorado College, the SCAC #2 seed.
McMurry is regionally ranked right now.
HSU beat non-region Gettysburg and Babson.

Those may be secondary criteria, but let's watch this.

(Pabegg said that he would run the numbers for the women.)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on February 23, 2009, 11:36:43 pm
Ralph,
   Here's my guess for this week's regional rankings. I could be off because last week's rankings still don't make a lot of sense to me after looking over the numbers on D3hoops.

School  (Regional Record)
1. Oglethorpe (17-3) They have a much higher OWP than any other ranked teams.
2. Greensboro (22-0) Poor OWP keeps them in #2.
3. Randolph-Macon (17-4)  Very good OWP keeps them ahead of UTD and MC, but only slightly.
4. UT-Dallas (21-3)  Very close to MC, but record against regional ranked opponents is better.
5. MS College (21-3) Better record and better OWP than Roanoke and McMurry.
6. Roanoke (20-3) They have a similiar OWP to McMurry, and better record.

I think RMU, UTD and MC are al very close, but with the added emphasis on OWP RMC overcomes their much poorer regional record.

MC and UTD are splitting hairs with the same regional record, similiar OWP and a split this year. UTD is 1-0 against regional ranked opponents while MC is 1-2.

Roanoke loses out to UTD and MC because of one less win and lower OWP.

McMurry could edge out Roanoke if their OWP ends up high enough to offset the extra loss,  but it will be close.

EDITED: RMC rather than RMU. Thanks for the heads up hoopstermom.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: hoopstermom on February 24, 2009, 09:11:23 am

Quote
I think RMU, UTD and MC are al very close, but with the added emphasis on OWP RMU overcomes their much poorer regional record.

Mr. Brooks -  it's RMC not RMU

For some reason this year, this seems to be a reoccurring misnomer.  Is there something RMC or other interested posters should know    :)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2009, 10:10:47 am
Ralph,
   Here's my guess for this week's regional rankings. I could be off because last week's rankings still don't make a lot of sense to me after looking over the numbers on D3hoops.

School  (Regional Record)
1. Oglethorpe (17-3) They have a much higher OWP than any other ranked teams.
2. Greensboro (22-0) Poor OWP keeps them in #2.
3. Randolph-Macon (17-4)  Very good OWP keeps them ahead of UTD and MC, but only slightly.
4. UT-Dallas (21-3)  Very close to MC, but record against regional ranked opponents is better.
5. MS College (21-3) Better record and better OWP than Roanoke and McMurry.
6. Roanoke (20-3) They have a similiar OWP to McMurry, and better record.

I think RMU, UTD and MC are al very close, but with the added emphasis on OWP RMU overcomes their much poorer regional record.

MC and UTD are splitting hairs with the same regional record, similiar OWP and a split this year. UTD is 1-0 against regional ranked opponents while MC is 1-2.

Roanoke loses out to UTD and MC because of one less win and lower OWP.

McMurry could edge out Roanoke if their OWP ends up high enough to offset the extra loss,  but it will be close.
Okay, we can see if that is what the rankings look like on Wednesday.

The final (and undisclosed) regional ranking that is done on Sunday will determine the candidates for the Pool C bids.

By the way that the tourney is seeded,  I think that MC, McM and HPU make the NCAA tourney, if they make the ASC Finals.  UT-Tyler must run the table.

The tourney games settle the head-to-head questions. I think that we get a Pool A and one Pool C bid.  I hope for the second Pool C bid.

ASC Women's Bracket (http://www.ascsports.org/Pdfs/wbball/2009/2/21/ASC_WBB_09CHAMPIONSHIP_BRACKET.pdf)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on February 24, 2009, 12:29:09 pm
Ralph,
   Here's my guess for this week's regional rankings. I could be off because last week's rankings still don't make a lot of sense to me after looking over the numbers on D3hoops.

School  (Regional Record)
1. Oglethorpe (17-3) They have a much higher OWP than any other ranked teams.
2. Greensboro (22-0) Poor OWP keeps them in #2.
3. Randolph-Macon (17-4)  Very good OWP keeps them ahead of UTD and MC, but only slightly.
4. UT-Dallas (21-3)  Very close to MC, but record against regional ranked opponents is better.
5. MS College (21-3) Better record and better OWP than Roanoke and McMurry.
6. Roanoke (20-3) They have a similiar OWP to McMurry, and better record.

I think RMU, UTD and MC are al very close, but with the added emphasis on OWP RMU overcomes their much poorer regional record.

MC and UTD are splitting hairs with the same regional record, similiar OWP and a split this year. UTD is 1-0 against regional ranked opponents while MC is 1-2.

Roanoke loses out to UTD and MC because of one less win and lower OWP.

McMurry could edge out Roanoke if their OWP ends up high enough to offset the extra loss,  but it will be close.
Okay, we can see if that is what the rankings look like on Wednesday.

The final (and undisclosed) regional ranking that is done on Sunday will determine the candidates for the Pool C bids.

By the way that the tourney is seeded,  I think that MC, McM and HPU make the NCAA tourney, if they make the ASC Finals.  UT-Tyler must run the table.

The tourney games settle the head-to-head questions. I think that we get a Pool A and one Pool C bid.  I hope for the second Pool C bid.

ASC Women's Bracket (http://www.ascsports.org/Pdfs/wbball/2009/2/21/ASC_WBB_09CHAMPIONSHIP_BRACKET.pdf)

Ralph,
  I wish pabegg had numbers for the women like we do the men, so we can see how things are stacking up. Regardless how the regional rankings come out this week, I think UTD, MC, McMurry, HSU and HPU are all in the same boat. The teams who have the best ASC tournament will get into the NCAA Tourney, and I think all five could still get a pool C with a run to the title game, and some could get in with one more win.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: SabineBBall on February 24, 2009, 05:07:43 pm
It appears ASC will never get more teams in the tourney with the current East/West format and lack of being able to play more outside conference in region games.

It appears from all the talk we should just do away with the regular season and just have a tourney at the end of the year.  I never understood it in D1 selection and it looks like it is much worse in D3 especially for the ASC.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2009, 06:02:49 pm
It appears ASC will never get more teams in the tourney with the current East/West format and lack of being able to play more outside conference in region games.

It appears from all the talk we should just do away with the regular season and just have a tourney at the end of the year.  I never understood it in D1 selection and it looks like it is much worse in D3 especially for the ASC.

If we can use the Massey Ratings MOV as a "rough proxy" for the NCAA's rankings, you can see that the top half of the ASC is a strong conference.  If the ASC were actually 2 conferences then the top half would be great and bottom half would be mediocre at best.

Instead, we are constrained by geography and live with it.

Thru Sunday, Massey's MOV has us listed this way out of 439 schools:

#11 ) Miss Coll
#28 ) McM
#30 ) HPU
#33 ) HSU
#35 ) UTD
#45 ) LaColl
#64 ) UT-Tyler
#76 ) UMHB

We got three bids in 2006, when HSU was "close to the last" Pool C team selected, and they go to the Final Four.

Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on February 25, 2009, 07:36:11 pm
New regional rankings

South Region
1. Oglethorpe 17-3 22-3
2. Greensboro 23-0 24-1
3. Texas-Dallas 21-3 21-4
4. Mississippi Col. 21-3 22-3
5. Roanoke 20-3 22-3
6. Randolph-Macon 17-4 20-5

A little surprised that Randolph-Macon is that low, maybe their OWP was not as strong as I thought it was.

McMurry would have been in as well but their final game against a 1-23 Schreiner team  was a killer for their OWP. If you take the two games against Schreiner off their schedule, their OWP changes from around .490 to somewhere around .540. That's a huge difference in the current system, probably equivalent to a couple extra losses in the regional record.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 08:04:10 pm
New regional rankings

South Region
1. Oglethorpe 17-3 22-3
2. Greensboro 23-0 24-1
3. Texas-Dallas 21-3 21-4
4. Mississippi Col. 21-3 22-3
5. Roanoke 20-3 22-3
6. Randolph-Macon 17-4 20-5

A little surprised that Randolph-Macon is that low, maybe their OWP was not as strong as I thought it was.

McMurry would have been in as well but their final game against a 1-23 Schreiner team  was a killer for their OWP. If you take the two games against Schreiner off their schedule, their OWP changes from around .490 to somewhere around .540. That's a huge difference in the current system, probably equivalent to a couple extra losses in the regional record.
Or we split the conference into two conferences and then selectively schedule inter-conference games.  McMurry could avoid the real downers like UOzarks 5-20 overall, 4-19 in region (.174) and LeTU 5-19 overall, 5-16 in-region (.238) and replace those non-conference games with some .500 schools or better that are in-region.

ARGGGGHHHHHH!  Geography and the paucity of D3 schools in the area. 

UT-Dallas and Mississippi College suffered from that Schreiner-TLU road trip.  Schreiner was 1-24 overall, 1-23 (.041) and TLU 7-19 / 5-16 (.238); or game against SRSU 3-21 overall / 3-18 in-region (.143).

My hope is that the committee will understand the mandated 20/21 rules that we have in the ASC.

After the tournaments this weekend, the South Regional should look like this.

Oglethorpe SCAC A/C (Must beat DePauw for the sake of us ASC fans.)
Greensboro USAC A (Should win the USA South.)
UTD ASC  A/C
Miss Coll ASC  A/C
Roanoke ODAC A/C
RMC  ODAC A/C.

Three and maybe four teams should be off the table with Pool A bids.

The good thing about this that the winner of the ASC tourney will likely host a first round series. (I'll bet that McMurry, HSU and HPU are just off the table.  Please remember that the men rank the Top 15% of the eligible teams; the women the Top 6.)

HSU's Coach Briggs is the rep from the ASC to the South Region Evaluation Committee.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: SabineBBall on February 25, 2009, 08:37:53 pm
I am new at this but if their rankings mean anything and looking at records it appears HPU and HSU both have to win the tourney to get in (both have 5 in region loses but if MCM loses early they will have 5 too).  Unless UTD loses first round they should be a solid C depending on how Mc and McM do 1st round.  Out of MC and McM one of them (if they make the semi's) will be out in the semi-finals and be the bubble team for 3 ASC team to get in.  If MC loses in 1st round to HPU they are going to be in trouble it appears unless there are more upsets.  Of course if HPU makes the finals they might get the defending champion wildcard nod lol.  Going to be interesting.  I think ASC needs minimual upsets elsewhere to get 3 teams in.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 08:44:01 pm
I am new at this but if their rankings mean anything and looking at records it appears HPU and HSU both have to win the tourney to get in (both have 5 in region loses but if MCM loses early they will have 5 too).  Unless UTD loses first round they should be a solid C depending on how Mc and McM do 1st round.  Out of MC and McM one of them (if they make the semi's) will be out in the semi-finals and be the bubble team for 3 ASC team to get in.  If MC loses in 1st round to HPU they are going to be in trouble it appears unless there are more upsets.  Of course if HPU makes the finals they might get the defending champion wildcard nod lol.  Going to be interesting.  I think ASC needs minimal upsets elsewhere to get 3 teams in.
I agree.

I think that the two ASC finalists make the NCAA's.

Getting a second Pool C bid will be interesting.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2009, 04:31:12 pm
New regional rankings

South Region
1. Oglethorpe 17-3 22-3  Won QF
2. Greensboro 23-0 24-1   Lost in Finals to CNU
3. Texas-Dallas 21-3 21-4  Lost in the QF's
4. Mississippi Col. 21-3 22-3  Lost in the QF's
5. Roanoke 20-3 22-3   Lost to Bridgewater in Semis
6. Randolph-Macon 17-4 20-5  Won QF


(Trinity beat DePauw in SCAC Semi's).
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on February 28, 2009, 04:33:37 pm
Too bad Trinity had that run of bad games when Krista Prato-Matthews was injured, otherwise today's win would have probably clinched a pool C bid for them.   They have to beat Oglethorpe (again) tomorrow to get in, which would mean Ogle would get a C and kick someone out of the tourney.   Does DePauw get a C after today's loss?  Only 5 losses on the season, you'd think so but both Ogle and DPU were going to get in regardless of what happened in the SCAC tourney. 

Yes, I know, you're all going to pull for O'thorpe (up big on Centre at the moment) tomorrow.   :D
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on February 28, 2009, 04:59:05 pm
New regional rankings

South Region
1. Oglethorpe 17-3 22-3  Won QF
2. Greensboro 23-0 24-1   Lost in Finals to CNU
3. Texas-Dallas 21-3 21-4  Lost in the QF's
4. Mississippi Col. 21-3 22-3  Lost in the QF's
5. Roanoke 20-3 22-3   Lost to Bridgewater in Semis
6. Randolph-Macon 17-4 20-5  Won QF


(Trinity beat DePauw in SCAC Semi's).



Ouch the south hasn't faired too well in conference tournaments.

Now, do you expect Greensboro to get a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on February 28, 2009, 05:22:00 pm
Easily.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: shsfan on February 28, 2009, 09:19:24 pm
Ron - your response regarding Greensboro was absolutely correct, but this was an easy question. What about Pool C bids for the others in the South Region list that are finished as of tonight? Thanks!
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on February 28, 2009, 09:44:34 pm
ralph is the expert, and i'm playing at a concert right now :-;
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: shsfan on February 28, 2009, 10:10:37 pm
Sorry. What concert? What instrument?
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2009, 10:34:28 pm
Ron - your response regarding Greensboro was absolutely correct, but this was an easy question. What about Pool C bids for the others in the South Region list that are finished as of tonight? Thanks!
I don't know.  There is so much carnage in the South that I have not figured it out.

MissColl and UTD were ranked by they lost in the first round.

McMurry had been regionally ranked, but lost (a heartbreaker) today.

HPU and HSU gained more in-region wins.

I look at these rankings as ordinal but they are not cardinal numbers.  "One" is not "one" better than "two". One is about 0.1263432543 better than two.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2009, 10:38:28 pm
New regional rankings

South Region
1. Oglethorpe 17-3 22-3  Won QF and SF. Plays Trinity TX.
2. Greensboro 23-0 24-1   Lost in Finals to CNU
3. Texas-Dallas 21-3 21-4  Lost in the QF's
4. Mississippi Col. 21-3 22-3  Lost in the QF's
5. Roanoke 20-3 22-3   Won QF Lost to Bridgewater in Semis
6. Randolph-Macon 17-4 20-5  Won QF  and SF Plays Bridgewater

Maryville GSAC AQ
CNU USA South AC AQ.


(Trinity beat DePauw in SCAC Semi's).


Ouch the south hasn't faired too well in conference tournaments.

Now, do you expect Greensboro to get a Pool C bid.
Probably, but they showed their vulnerability.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on March 01, 2009, 12:30:45 am
This is far from scientific, but here are some numbers I put together based on numbers through the weekend. This is based on the D3hoops regional records and I assumed everyone's opponents had played a total of about 500 games entering the tourney, it makes the math easier and looking up every opponents regional record would take a week. I just added the tournament records. But like I said, this is just something to give an idea of how things are shaking out.

Mississippi College 21-4, .518 OWP
UTD 21-4, .504 OWP
McMurry 19-5, .507 OWP
Howard Payne 21-5 (one game left) .531 OWP
Hardin-Simmons 19-5 (one game left) .515 OWP
Randolph-Macon 20-5 (one game left), .548 OWP
Roanoke 21-4, .492 OWP
Trinity 18-5 (one game left), .503 OWP

Those are the top pool C candidates from the south. For MC, they need Oglethorpe to beat Trinity, Randolph-Macon to beat Bridgewater, and for HPU to beat HSU tomorrow. I just don't think Hardin-Simmons or Trinity can get Pool C's if those numbers are even close to right.

So lets say HPU, RMC and Oglethorpe win tomorrow. This is how the rankings could settle out just based on regional winning percentage and OWP. The OOWP should not factor much for ASC schools because they are all about .500.

South Region
1. Oglethorpe 20-3   AQ
2. Greensboro 23-1    Pool C
3. Randolph-Macon 20-5 AQ
4. Howard Payne 22-5  AQ
5. Mississippi College 21-4 Pool C
6. Texas-Dallas 21-4   Pool C
7. McMurry 19-5 Pool C
8. Hardin-Simmons 19-6   Pool C
9. Roanoke 21-4  Pool C
10. Trinity  18-6  Pool C

I think McMurry will end up behind MC and UTD because of the worse regional ranking, and the same or worse OWP. HSU could be in the same boat, two extra regional losses without a better OWP. Other criteria will not move them up if regional record and schedule strength separates them. If it shakes out like that, I wouldn't be completely shocked seeing three Pool C's from the ASC if upsets are few and far between around the country.

 
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 12:39:02 am
HPU got good in-region wins over Colorado College twice and Nebraska Wesleyan.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: SabineBBall on March 01, 2009, 12:56:30 am
Thanks for the info Chris.  MC was behind UTD going into the weekend so not sure why they would jump them since they both lost 1st round.  Of course HPU had a better record than UMHB but couldn't have made that big of a difference.  Also if HPU wins and moves into last regional rankings (the one not released??).  That gives UTD another win over a regional ranked opponent that MC doesn't have.  If HPU wins I don't see how MC jumps over them in the regional rankings.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 01:04:08 am
Thanks for the info Chris.  MC was behind UTD going into the weekend so not sure why they would jump them since they both lost 1st round.  Of course HPU had a better record than UMHB but couldn't have made that big of a difference.  Also if HPU wins and moves into last regional rankings (the one not released??).  That gives UTD another win over a regional ranked opponent that MC doesn't have.  If HPU wins I don't see how MC jumps over them in the regional rankings.
I really have a hard time going with a .518 over a .504.  That is only 2.7% better.  I don't think that we can say that this difference is statistically significant.

Where the stat might make sense is with Chapman men (.361) versus Maryville TN men (.489).
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on March 01, 2009, 09:15:16 am
Sabine and Ralph,
   You both might be right, I don't know what the committee considers statistically significant regarding the OWP. I'll use pabegg's RPI rankings for the men as an example though. He has been very close on his pool C projections in the past and he shared his formula which is the standard 25%/50%/25% RPI that DI uses for regional record, OWP and OOWP.

   Basically, using that forumula a 20-5 team with OWP of .500 is statistically even to a team that is 15-10 with a .600. I'm just making an educated guess on this, but from that I deducted that each OWP difference of .01 was worth about 1 win or 1 loss difference in the regional rankings. That is probably less significant than the other advantages UTD holds, but I was just using records and the OWP.

   I do think UTD and MC will both be the first pool c selections from the ASC though just based on criteria. They both have statistically significant advantages in regional ranking and a slightly better OWP.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: nash on March 01, 2009, 05:05:00 pm
Congrats to HPU. 
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 05:06:37 pm
BRACKET 7
1 Oglethorpe *
2 Greensboro *
3 Texas-Dallas
4 Howard Payne
5 Randolph-Macon
6 Christopher Newport
7 Transylvania *
8 Maryville (Tenn.) *

Projected bracket--

IMHO CNU knocked the third ASC team out of the tourney.

Oglethorpe hosts the *teams.

I hope to see the UTD site get a tourney.

Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: golden_dome on March 01, 2009, 05:33:06 pm
BRACKET 7
1 Oglethorpe *
2 Greensboro *
3 Texas-Dallas
4 Howard Payne
5 Randolph-Macon
6 Christopher Newport
7 Transylvania *
8 Maryville (Tenn.) *

Projected bracket--

IMHO CNU knocked the third ASC team out of the tourney.

Oglethorpe hosts the *teams.

I hope to see the UTD site get a tourney.



Ralph,
I'm not sure I agree with the projection for South teams. Obviously I want the MC women in but they have a good argument against the two ASC teams mentioned, especially HSU.

MC was one spot behind UTD in the final regular season regional rankings so they were obviously close. We have identical regional records,  we split for the season, we both lost in the first round of the ASC Tournament with MC losing to the much better team, and MC's strength of schedule numbers should be higher. It's at least close.

With HSU I don't know why they would be in the conversation for a Pool C MC is not. We have a much better regional record with two less losses, we should have a better strength of schedule in addtion and we also beat them head to head on their court.

I don't see how they could possibly be ahead of us at this point. Losses in the conference tournaments don't hurt anymore than regular season losses.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 05:40:11 pm
Chris, Hardin-Simmons is not projected to get a bid.   (HPU earned the Pool A bid.)
 
The ASC has knocked itself out of another bid...Mississippi College!   >:(

If the ASC-East were a conference, then #2 Mississippi College beats the #3 seed LaColl.  That gives another in-region game and you lose in the finals to #1 seed UTD.

I think that is what knocks MissCollege out of the tourney, if this comes to pass.

My bad.  I saw that HSU was next up on the table from the South Region in the projections.

They played two more in-region games?
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: noxo on September 10, 2009, 10:51:19 am
What Region will Spalding be assigned to?
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on September 15, 2009, 06:10:21 pm
What Region will Spalding be assigned to?
Kentucky has traditionally been assigned to the South Region.

However, the women and men may assign teams to different regions, even in conferences that are multi-region.

My guess is that Spalding will be treated as an SLIAC team, and will be put in the Central Region for Women and Midwest Region for Men.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2010, 01:18:02 am
South Region Record Overall Record
1. Christopher Newport 22-0 23-0  USAC
2. Roanoke 18-2 20-2  ODAC
3. Mary Hardin-Baylor 18-4 19-4  ASC-West
4. Louisiana College 16-2 19-2     ASC-East (hosting the ASC Play-in Tourney   ;) )
5. Mississippi College 18-5 18-5    ASC-East
6. Howard Payne 18-5 18-5         ASC-West

GSAC -- Maryville has clinched the #1 seed, and plays Piedmont on Feb 20th.
SCAC-East -- DePauw (Great Lakes region) leads the SCAC-East.
SCAC-West -- Hendrix has clinched the SCAC-West #1 seed.

Darkhorse -- UDallas in the NEAC. (Massey Ratings has UDallas as the highest rated NEAC team at #1319. SUNY-Cobleskill (second-year provisional) is next #1424.  Keuka is 3rd at #1479.)

It will be interesting to see how the "Texas Bracket" fills out, if there will be a "Texas Bracket". The ASC winner might get shipped somewhere else.  If the ASC were split and we had 2 bids, there is a chance that one team might host a first round tourney.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on January 24, 2011, 10:25:21 pm
My Mock regional Rankings:

1.Greensboro16-0USAC
2.Louisiana College15-1ASC
3.Christopher Newport15-1USAC
4. Texas-Dallas14-3ASC
5.Hardin-Simmons12-3ASC
6.Randolph-Macon   12-2ODAC

All regional records.  First attempt at this.  Any thoughts?  Who should be included.  I know an SCAC team and GSAC team is not represented here.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 24, 2011, 10:33:42 pm
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/0312ac804564e6d699f1df90a48a4ecb/2011+Women%27s+Basketball+Handbook.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=0312ac804564e6d699f1df90a48a4ecb

Handbook does not explicitly tell how many teams per region other than the Northeast, so I agree with 6.

No SCAC South Region team deserves ranking.

I will rank DePauw in my Great Lakes Rankings.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: scottiedoug on January 25, 2011, 11:08:26 am
Maryville is 11-3 in D3 and lost to Greensboro, Wartburg, and Cantre.  I imagine Wartburg (undefeated when Maryville played them) is not in-region, so they are 11-2 in region.  Many of their wins are against poor teams, so I do not know if they are any good.  They beat Piedmont at Piedmont last weekend and play LaGrange this Saturday.  Both Piedmont and LaGrange are having good years....
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on January 30, 2011, 10:46:19 pm
I am pretty fired up about seeing these regional rankings, and not to see how my rankings compared, but to see where these teams align. 5 South region teams made it to the NCAA last year.  GSAC not ranked in the rankings, and ODAC low could mean that only one ASC team gets in.  Does the USASouth get two teams in at the end? Could there be more than 6 or more teams from the south getting into the tournament. I am very intrigued about this.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2011, 03:28:09 pm
First Regional Rankings: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on February 02, 2011, 03:36:19 pm
South Region
1.Greensboro17-018-0
2.Christopher Newport16-218-2
3.Louisiana College 15-117-1
4.Randolph-Macon14-214-4
5.Roanoke11-3 11-4
6.Texas-Dallas15-416-4


No major surprises.  Although I didn't expect to see Roanoke crack the rankings.  

2 USASouth
2 ODAC
2 ASC

17-0 in region for Greensboro.  Which of their games didn't count?  My guess is Bennett.

What is the potential at this point (if the season were to end now) that the USASouth hosts the 1st-2nd rounds?
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2011, 03:40:52 pm
Guy - what did I tell you about CNU on Hoopsville? :)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on February 02, 2011, 03:44:33 pm
Guy - what did I tell you about CNU on Hoopsville? :)

I was waiting for that! :)

At least I have 82 degree outside temperature down here :P
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2011, 03:58:21 pm
It's in the high-40's here as the massive winter storm is staying west and north of us (slightly jealous)...
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Bammer on February 09, 2011, 07:50:30 am
Looks like the ODAC could be in danger of receiving only 1 bid with Randolph Macon losing last night to Washington and Lee and with Roanoke losing last week to Eastern Mennonite.  If Bridgewater were to win out and get to at least the conference tournament championship game, they might receive a bid even with a tournament loss.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on February 09, 2011, 08:01:29 am
Looks like the ODAC could be in danger of receiving only 1 bid with Randolph Macon losing last night to Washington and Lee and with Roanoke losing last week to Eastern Mennonite.  If Bridgewater were to win out and get to at least the conference tournament championship game, they might receive a bid even with a tournament loss.

I guess you can say I agree with you. With two very good teams in the USASouth at the top of the rankings, just by mileage alone that could very well sneak a 2nd ODAC school into the NCAA tournament.  There is still time for that to happen....
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2011, 03:41:01 pm
Looks like the ODAC could be in danger of receiving only 1 bid with Randolph Macon losing last night to Washington and Lee and with Roanoke losing last week to Eastern Mennonite.  If Bridgewater were to win out and get to at least the conference tournament championship game, they might receive a bid even with a tournament loss.

I guess you can say I agree with you. With two very good teams in the USASouth at the top of the rankings, just by mileage alone that could very well sneak a 2nd ODAC school into the NCAA tournament.  There is still time for that to happen....

Nah -- anyone within 500 miles is likely to be placed as the fourth team in that pod. It could be a CAC team, a GSAC team. They wouldn't put a second ODAC team in just because they are close by. They have to earn the bid on their merits.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on February 11, 2011, 01:27:50 pm
Looks like the ODAC could be in danger of receiving only 1 bid with Randolph Macon losing last night to Washington and Lee and with Roanoke losing last week to Eastern Mennonite.  If Bridgewater were to win out and get to at least the conference tournament championship game, they might receive a bid even with a tournament loss.

I guess you can say I agree with you. With two very good teams in the USASouth at the top of the rankings, just by mileage alone that could very well sneak a 2nd ODAC school into the NCAA tournament.  There is still time for that to happen....

Nah -- anyone within 500 miles is likely to be placed as the fourth team in that pod. It could be a CAC team, a GSAC team. They wouldn't put a second ODAC team in just because they are close by. They have to earn the bid on their merits.


Wait you are suggesting that NCAA gets it right every year.  No way :)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2011, 03:36:34 pm
Week 3 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/16/ncaa-2011-regional-rankings-week-3/
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on February 27, 2011, 05:16:16 pm
The South Region made things instersting didn't they.

Not one of the south region #1 seeds one.  (excluding DePauw in the SCAC but not a southern team)

ASC AQ Howard Payne
GSAC AQ Piedmont
ODAC AQ Randolph-Macon
USASouth AQ CNU

Pool C's?:
Greensboro
Louisiana College
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2011, 08:37:04 pm
The South Region made things instersting didn't they.

Not one of the south region #1 seeds one.  (excluding DePauw in the SCAC but not a southern team)

ASC AQ Howard Payne
GSAC AQ Piedmont
ODAC AQ Randolph-Macon
USASouth AQ CNU

Pool C's?:
Greensboro
Louisiana College

Howard Payne is looking very, very good.  CNU only led McMurry in Hawai'i by 1 point with 70 seconds left.  The HPU team at the end of the season was looking as good as the ASC Powers, HPU, HSU and McMurry, from the last decade.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Scratch on February 27, 2011, 11:04:28 pm
Howard Payne is looking very, very good.  CNU only led McMurry in Hawai'i by 1 point with 70 seconds left.  The HPU team at the end of the season was looking as good as the ASC Powers, HPU, HSU and McMurry, from the last decade.

HPU is looking very good.  Over the last five games (MCM, HSU, UO, UTD, LC - record 92-35 at the time of the game) HPU has outscored their opponent 364-294.  In the LC championship game, 7 different HPU players had a 3 pointer in the first 12 minutes of play.  I would hate to meet them in the first round.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on March 04, 2011, 10:23:24 pm
Let's Go South Region and Louisiana College, now

4 of the 5 teams from the South region have scored 80+ points tonight.  Louisiana make it 5 out of 6.  I think it tells alot about the style of play here in the south.  

The other almost had a chance to take out the #1 team in the country.  I've been preaching this about the south all year long.  In the words of the late great Rodney Dangerfield. "I don't get no respect."  By I, I mean the south :P
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2011, 10:39:54 pm
Chapman has gone on a 15-2 run to go up 28-21 with 6 minutes left in the first half.

LC has now tied the game at 30 with 3:32 left.

Chapman 32, LC 31, at half.

LC leads 59-56 1:08 left.  It has been a tight second half.  Chapman plays a full court press.  Their aggressive defense has presented some challenges to LC.  Chapman defense reminds me of the full court pressure that ASC teams use sometimes.

Givens has a shot blocked with 25 seconds left.  Chapman scores with 5.5 secs left. Chapman 60-59. LC to inbound to go the length of the court.  LC stepped on the line on the inbounds attempt.


LC fouls with 3.9 left  Neither team has a time-out.  Player misses the first FT.  LC rebounds and then gets fouled.Chapman's 10th foul.  2.8 secs left. Lubgood hits both.  LC wins 61-60.  Coach Joseph-Richards is smiling down on her Lady Wildcats.

Final -- LC 61 Chapman 60
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on March 05, 2011, 05:54:00 am
5 of 6 advancing I would take that any day. I really think this is the first time since I've been following d3 basketball that the south was spread out like this.  We are usually clumped together.  Lets all win today and take 31% of the sweet 16 field.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: GuyFormerlyPSBBG on February 19, 2012, 09:31:10 pm
Personally I think the south deserves at least one more than the 6 teams we had last year.  There are 11 teams that have 20 wins at this point of the season.  I think we had 9 last year, if I counted right. (I don't think DePauw was included in that number)  I know 20 wins doesn't mean anything for NCAA's, but the fact is their are some really good teams down here this year.  It would be nice to see another team down here.  I don't think the USASouth has had 3 teams with 20 wins...ever... (Don't quote me on that.)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2012, 06:14:34 pm
Personally I think the south deserves at least one more than the 6 teams we had last year.  There are 11 teams that have 20 wins at this point of the season.  I think we had 9 last year, if I counted right. (I don't think DePauw was included in that number)  I know 20 wins doesn't mean anything for NCAA's, but the fact is their are some really good teams down here this year.  It would be nice to see another team down here.  I don't think the USASouth has had 3 teams with 20 wins...ever... (Don't quote me on that.)
Fortunately for us, Depauw is now in the North Coast AC and the Great Lakes Region,
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: #1HOOPSFAN on February 13, 2014, 12:49:11 pm
First Regional Rankings are out. I don't understand the South. Rhodes beats Texas-Tyler by 10 in Texas, has the same overall record and are ranked three places behind them. Eastern Mennonite beats Randolph Macon by 20, has a better record by two games, is two places ahead of them in their own conference and Randolph Macon is #5 and Eastern Mennonite is #9. I understand SOS, but you can't help who who you have to play in your conference and league scheduling. All you can do is schedule tough non-league games. Rhodes played Texas-Tyler and Ferrum in non-league games. Eastern Mennonite has played Ferrum, York, and John Hopkins in non-league games. Some common sense needs to be applied when ranking teams instead of using formulas (categories) to figure things out. No offense to Texas-Tyler and Randolph Macon. I think both are very good teams. I just feel like Rhodes and Eastern Mennonite being ranked behind them makes no sense based on records and head to head games, which should carry a lot of weight when comparing two teams. That's just my opinion!!
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2014, 05:52:11 pm
Take a look at SOS numbers and you can start to get a better picture on things...
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2014, 12:06:46 pm
First Regional Rankings are out. I don't understand the South. Rhodes beats Texas-Tyler by 10 in Texas, has the same overall record and are ranked three places behind them.

This seems like an issue, frankly. Here's D3 record, SOS and head-to-head results vs. other teams ranked in this South Region poll only (not vs. teams regionally ranked in other polls

1 Ferrum 17-1 vs. D3, .516 SOS
beat Eastern Mennonite, won at Rhodes, beat Maryville

2 Emory 15-5 vs. D3, .574 SOS
beat Maryville

3 Texas-Tyler 18-3 vs. D3, .492 SOS
lost to Rhodes, beat UT-Dallas 2x

4 Maryville 17-3 vs. D3, .511 SOS
lost at Centre, lost at Emory, lost to Ferrum

5 Randolph-Macon 16-4 vs. D3, .547 SOS
lost at Eastern Mennonite

6 Rhodes 17-3 vs. D3, .503 SOS
won at UT-Tyler, lost to Ferrum, beat Centre

7 Centre 14-6 vs. D3, .565 SOS
beat Maryville, lost at Rhodes

8 Texas-Dallas 17-4 17-4 vs. D3, .524 SOS
lost to UT-Tyler 2x

9 Eastern Mennonite 16-4 vs. D3, .507 SOS
beat Randolph-Macon

Randolph-Macon has a win vs. Atlantic ranked CNU and a loss to Atlantic ranked TCNJ but those aren't supposed to be factored into the first week's rankings (because those committees don't know what the other is doing).

How I would rank these teams, based on these criteria:

Ferrum
Emory
Maryville
Rhodes
Randolph-Macon
Centre
UT-Tyler
Eastern Mennonite
UT-Dallas
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: scottiedoug on February 14, 2014, 04:19:45 pm
Makes sense to me, Pat.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2014, 10:48:01 pm
South Region first round

UT-Tyler vs Maryville TN
Spaulding at Rhodes

TLU (travel orphan) gets sent to John Carroll

Ferrum at Capital
CNU vs EMU.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 05, 2014, 07:51:59 am
Will be interesting to see how TLU fares in their first playoff appearance in like forever, plus they haven't traveled much this season.   Other than the conference trips to Colorado and Louisiana this will be their first out-of-state trip and four of their five D3 losses have been on the road.   In the road win on Sunday the TLU crowd outnumbered the Trinity faithful ...
 
I was at their win over Trinity in the SCAC finals and their earlier season loss at TU;  they are a plucky bunch with good shooting from beyond the arc and a 6'4" post who can dominate inside.   They were fortunate in that Trinity committed three turnovers in the last 30 seconds but good teams make their fortune.   They play a lot of players and often substitute all five players at a time.   They'll be a decided underdog against John Carroll - TLU is riding a 14 game winning streak but the SCAC's not a power conference. 
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 07, 2018, 09:19:34 pm
Here they are: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/women-regional-rankings-first
Maybe we (Texas) will get to host the first weekend.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2018, 12:33:31 pm
Here they are: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/women-regional-rankings-first
Maybe we (Texas) will get to host the first weekend.

As you know... if enough teams are down there, they will have to host a game in Texas. Happens pretty often.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on February 09, 2018, 01:36:37 pm
That's how UTD got to host last year.   The pod consisted of UTD, Trinity, Hendrix, and they flew in CMS.   UTD got to host over Trinity (who were something like 26-1 at the time) b/c they could bus HX there - HX is 600+ miles from SA.   Looks like if the Comets get to host again this year it will be because they deserve to.   This year could be UTD, UMHB, Trinity/Austin winner, and .. ?   Given how low AC and TU are it seems unlikely the SCAC will get a 2nd bid. 

Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2018, 07:35:09 pm
That's how UTD got to host last year.   The pod consisted of UTD, Trinity, Hendrix, and they flew in CMS.   UTD got to host over Trinity (who were something like 26-1 at the time) b/c they could bus HX there - HX is 600+ miles from SA.   Looks like if the Comets get to host again this year it will be because they deserve to.   This year could be UTD, UMHB, Trinity/Austin winner, and .. ?   Given how low AC and TU are it seems unlikely the SCAC will get a 2nd bid.
My best case scenario for four teams in Texas making the playoffs would be for both TU and AC win out and TU beat AC in the post-season tourney. AC has a win over Wash U (regionally ranked in the Central Region). That might be enough.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2018, 07:45:16 pm
That's how UTD got to host last year.   The pod consisted of UTD, Trinity, Hendrix, and they flew in CMS.   UTD got to host over Trinity (who were something like 26-1 at the time) b/c they could bus HX there - HX is 600+ miles from SA.   Looks like if the Comets get to host again this year it will be because they deserve to.   This year could be UTD, UMHB, Trinity/Austin winner, and .. ?   Given how low AC and TU are it seems unlikely the SCAC will get a 2nd bid.
My best case scenario for four teams in Texas making the playoffs would be for both TU and AC win out and TU beat AC in the post-season tourney. AC has a win over Wash U (regionally ranked in the Central Region). That might be enough.

South           
1   Texas-Dallas   18-3   18-3 ASC  (First Pool C off the table)
2   Lynchburg   18-3   18-3          ODAC -- run the table
3   Piedmont   18-4   19-4          GSAC  -- run the table
4   Mary Hardin-Baylor   18-2   19-3   ASC  (Have UMHB beat UTD in the Tourney)
5   Emory & Henry   15-5   16-5           ODAC  (Have E&H be upset early)
6   Randolph-Macon   14-4   16-4   ODAC   (Have RMC be upset early)
7   Austin   17-5   17-5                  SCAC  (Record vs Regionally ranked teams -- (2-4) Wins TU & WashU; Losses UT-D (2); ETBU; TU)
8   Trinity (Texas)   16-3   16-3           SCAC  (Leapfrogs AC with win in the SCAC tourney))
9   East Texas Baptist   17-4   17-4    ASC  (Does ETBU stay in the final ranking, especially with an early loss in the ASC tourney?  Falling out of the Rankings makes AC's RvRRO to 2-4)
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2018, 03:53:01 pm
Those regional rankings will take on a very different look this week. Case in point, Trinity has games against teams in other regions that very easily could move them up and leapfrog a number of teams this week alone. I honestly wouldn't use this last week's rankings as any kind of barometer or gauge on hosting and whatnot. Far too much changes just between Week 1 and Week 2 in the rankings.

As for a Texas hosting... the key always is having at least two other teams within driving distance of a Texas school. They can fly in a fourth easily from several places, but if there are just two, the host is challenging when other fly-to destinations have better criteria.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: jekelish on February 11, 2018, 03:56:06 pm
To that point, with how much the rankings can change, three of the top six in the South lost this weekend. There'll certainly be some shuffling this week.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on February 12, 2018, 09:34:17 am
As always tho it comes down to win your conference and don't leave it in the hands of the selection committee :)

+1 to Dave for reminding us (ok, me) that there can be big changes btw Week 1 & 2.   I'd certainly love to see two SCAC teams in the tourney.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: jekelish on February 14, 2018, 02:46:23 pm
Boy, I gotta say I'm surprised that the only thing that changed was that UMHB, after losing to Concordia (which was 12-10 before beating UMHB)... moved from 4 to 3. Particularly given what a poor SOS the Crusaders have (341st in the D3Hoops SOS rankings).
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2018, 03:10:31 pm
New women's regional rankings: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/women-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 03:04:18 pm
The NCAA released the third set of women's basketball regional rankings with few changes from last week's version. This is the final set that we'll see before the Tournament bracket is released on Monday. Full list here: http://d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/women-regional-rankings-third

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Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 22, 2018, 04:50:22 pm
It is down to the final week of the regular season. It is now or never. Win the conference tournament, earn the automatic qualifier, and a team will be playing in March. Don't win it and either hold out hope for an at-large selection or the season is over.

The season continues or ends on the bounce of a ball from here on out.

So who may be in jeopardy and who is sitting pretty? On Thursday's edition of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), we start to read the tea leaves while also chatting with teams who are hoping to punch their ticket for the Road to Salem or Rochester themselves. Plus, we get a preview of what could be a fascinating weekend of NESCAC tournament action at Amherst.

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- Matt Ducharme, UMass-Dartmouth women's coach
- Jamie Purdy, Piedmont women's coach
- Grey Giovanine, No. 9 Augustana men's coach
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Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on February 25, 2018, 08:54:53 am
UT-D and UMHB both lost to ETBU; would have to think UT-D is a lock for a pool C nonetheless.   So you definitely have

ETBU (ASC Pool A)
Trinity/Southwestern winner (SCAC Pool A)
UT-D (ASC Pool C)
and then what?   Does the ASC get three teams in?   If HX wins the SAA they could get bused in again.  If Oglethorpe (#1 seed) wins they could go somewhere closer to home and fly in a fourth team.

UT-D probably hosts again regardless.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2018, 09:29:30 am
UT-D and UMHB both lost to ETBU; would have to think UT-D is a lock for a pool C nonetheless.   So you definitely have

ETBU (ASC Pool A)
Trinity/Southwestern winner (SCAC Pool A)
UT-D (ASC Pool C)
and then what?   Does the ASC get three teams in?   If HX wins the SAA they could get bused in again.  If Oglethorpe (#1 seed) wins they could go somewhere closer to home and fly in a fourth team.

UT-D probably hosts again regardless.
ETBU might host, too.

I believe that the ASC had 3 teams in 2004, HPU, HSU and McM with Trinity.
Title: Re: South Region Rankings and Playoffs
Post by: Ron Boerger on February 26, 2018, 06:40:48 am
The d3h projection (http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/women/2018/projected-womens-bracket) has UTD hosting, and UMHB never makes it to the table.  It would make my life so much easier if Trinity got to host, but alas.