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Posting Up (Division III basketball) => Men's Basketball => West Region => Topic started by: The Show on March 06, 2005, 08:40:16 pm

Title: MBB: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Show on March 06, 2005, 08:40:16 pm
Sometimes you're the windshield...sometimes you're the bug.

Once again, good luck!
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: navy&gold on March 06, 2005, 10:07:56 pm
The Show -  

People in the Northwest don't get the windshield/bug analogy.  I lived in Seattle for a summer a couple years ago. Some of the people who worked for me had played a video game once where you race a car through Iowa and the windshield gets covered by bugs... they didn't believe this actually happened.

On the IIAC page, Curtis Patching said something about the referees letting the players decide the game.  I wasn't there so I don't know how bad it actually was, but I think you'd have a different view if your team had 5 players in foul trouble and 3 of those players foul out.  All I can say is ... deja vu!!!

And, it's a good thing I wasn't there or I probably would have gotten booted.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 07, 2005, 12:47:38 am
Wanna get a bite to eat prior to the game in Stevens Point?  

Hilltop Pub and Grill (right when you come in on HWY 10 (just after Interstate 39 intersection)  

Guu's Tavern and Grill-downtown on Main St.  

Ella's Resturant-just west of Quandt Fieldhouse (on Division St., aka Business 51).  

Springville Wharf-off the beaten path, but well worth it. More into Plover (south of SP).  

Michele's Restaurant and Catering-for the upper class fans :-). reservations appreciated. On Division St., just north of Ella's.  

Hibachi Joe's-Chinese & Japanese Cuisine  

Red Mill Supper Club-Westside, going out of town on HWY 10. Nice place to eat, but not as upscale as Michele's.  

Bill's Pizza Shop-on Main St. downtown, near Guu's, right near Hibachi Joe's.  

I'm sure other Pointer fans and Point natives could help out, if you ask nicely. :-)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Point Special on March 07, 2005, 01:03:47 am
And for anyone looking for lodging, here are the options in Stevens Point.  I'd get something soon, because there is a lot going on in town next weekend.

http://www.spacvb.com/lodging.html
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Curtis Patching on March 07, 2005, 01:52:33 am
Old School
I have been mulling this over and I decided to just ask...is there really a place called 'Hibachi Joe's' in Wisconsin?  I need to know if I have to pack my hibachi for the trip.
Navy&Gold
We also had key players in foul trouble, thats why one of our key players (McVey) only played 14 minutes.  And guys who usually average maybe 8 minutes had to come up huge.
I look forward to the rematch with a different outcome.
GO LOGGERS!!!
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 07, 2005, 02:16:49 am
Downtown Stevens Point.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat1144 on March 07, 2005, 11:42:48 am
Old School,

I was in Stevens Point during the fall and I find it hard to believe that any restaurant in S.P. would take "reservations".  :-)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Point Special on March 07, 2005, 01:04:30 pm
The outside of Michelle's is very unassuming, but, fortunately for many a fine dining establishment, it's the food that matters, not the decor.  Michelle's is one of two quite exquisite cuisine choices in Stevens Point.  The other is the Silver Coach, on 10, heading west out of town (actually, I think it's in Park Ridge, a "suburb" if you will, of SP).  The restaurant is in an old passenger rail car.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldpa on March 07, 2005, 04:05:44 pm
I went to Stevens Point this winter. I had reservations, but I went anyway.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 08, 2005, 12:45:29 pm
Traveling Fans' Itinerary Should Be:

1. Go tour the POINT (BEER) BREWERY Friday early afternoon.

2. Depending on your taste, eat at one of the fine establishments listed above.
2a.  Hilltop Pub has a great fishfry (come on, it's Wisconsin), as does Guu's on Main.
2b. Springville Wharf has great cheese bread.  
2c. Bill's Pizza has great, well, pizza.

3. Go to Belt's Ice Cream for dessert.  We're not talking McDonald's quality ice cream here.  It just opened last Friday and it's been a tradition to camp out the night before to be the first in line.  Great ice cream, sundaes, flurries etc.

4. After the game, head down to The Final Score to celebrate or drink your sorrows away.  It's a nice "sports bar" and a lot of fans head down there after and prior to the game.  There is a big screen tv, among other tvs and plenty of room. They also serve good food there, you could eat there and then go to Belts!
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks#4 on March 08, 2005, 08:09:11 pm
Wildcat:  Very clever, you're a lot more fun on this page than the fox guys who just roll over and die or get defensive.  If you keep it up I'm gonna have to stick Curtis Patching on you.  

What a win it would be for UPS at Stevens Point. The team who knocked UPS out last year, the defending NCAA champs who didn't lose anybody (except pg to injury which could be a huge factor) and at their place! Don't be mistaken, UPS is a better team this year than last year.  They are more careful with their pressure, have another year of learning the system, and dominating posts.  Look for UPS to be well prepared for Stevens Point, and don't think anybody has forgotten last year.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat1144 on March 09, 2005, 01:27:25 am
Blackhawks,

My "inside" sources tell me different about UPS being better this year.  He says that UPS was better last year because of the better outside shooting (mainly you) that is now gone.

No matter, I'll be pulling for your dad and his boys to knock out the Pointers.  A victory over the number 1 DIII team will look great on Bridgelands resume for when he's looking for higher level jobs.  :-)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 09, 2005, 02:41:39 am
Any of you posters coming to Wisconsin?  Be cool to meet some of those Northwesterners!
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 09, 2005, 03:17:50 am
Just kind of curious what kind of crowd we are expecting from the UPS fans this weekend.  Is UPS basketball a big attraction?  Someone posted in another board that in last year's sectional semi-final game, the attendence was only 1809 or so.  That seems a bit small considering YOU are hosting it.  I saw that your gym holds 4500!  I looked at last year's attendence marks and UPS averaged just under 800.  Doesn't seem like the atmosphere would be too electrifying with such an empty looking gym.  Looks like Pacific Lutheran and Linfield (both over 2000) had good followings.

Granted the 1800 you got at the Point game was the biggest draw for a home game, but I guess I thought there would be more.  Apparently no one wanted to see the sectional championship since only 245 fans showed up.  Granted, it's two teams that you don't care about, but still, it's a sectional championship in the national tourney, guaranteed to be good basketball and of course ended up that way, a one-point overtime thriller.

This year, your attendence jumped 200 fans.  So, are we expecting UPS to fill their 400 tickets they get?
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: hoops on March 09, 2005, 12:20:13 pm
For those coming into Point this weekend a couple of other eating places for you would be...
1) the sportplate restaurant at Sentryworld...
2) The Restaurant in the sentry insurance headquarters...
3) Pagliacci's in the same location
4) Tokyo Steakhouse (they do the cooking etc right in front of you)
5) Mickeys (pizza, steak and some Italian)
 
for those heading out for fun after the game it's either the Final Score or "the square" which is a group of about 11 bars all within a block of each other but please be aware of drinking and driving, our officers will be there
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat1144 on March 09, 2005, 12:34:34 pm
Old School,

You have to understand that an excellent athletic team in one of the big three (football, basketball, baseball) was something new to the UPS campus last year.  Also remember that this is the Seattle/Tacoma area so the students have more options on the weekend besides cow tipping and shooting their shotguns at stuff.

Blackhawks,

Old school says 4,500 capacity...does that barn up at UPS really hold that many people?
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 09, 2005, 01:13:27 pm
wildcat1144,

This site says UPS's Memorial Fieldhouse holds 4500.  It's not my claim.

There is so much more to do in Stevens Point and the Midwest area than just cow tip and shoot off our shotguns.

Some of us go down to the black railroad bridge down on the Wisconsin River and throw rocks off of it.  That's a good ol time.  We also go to the local Taco Bell parking lot and hang out in the bed of our big trucks and compare tattooes.  Another past time of Stevens Point is "cruising" down Division St. and honking our custom made horns at each other, sometimes spinning our tires at the lights when they turn green.  The "of age" crowd goes down to Bruisers, located at the aforementioned Square and you're bound to find a fight if you want one.  Since we all live on farms in the midwest, we also go out and shoot cans off the wooden fence.  At night we go and "shine deer".  Do you guys out west know what a deer looks like? :-)  

All because we don't have a Starbucks doesn't mean we can't find things to keep ourselves busy.

(Message edited by shorty on March 9, 2005)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2005, 01:25:24 pm
I don't know where we got the number -- I look at the facilities and quick facts on UPS' site and it doesn't say anything, so I must have gotten it out of the Blue Book or something.

I have a Blue Book here that says 4,000, so I'll change it to that until I hear something different.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks#4 on March 09, 2005, 02:00:44 pm
Theres a sign in the fieldhouse that says UPS seats 3500 for basketball and 5000 for concerts.  We already discussed the attendance numbers on the board and I'd say their higher than posted, due to the fact that the student section either isn't counted (they don't need tickets) or is counted poorly.  

Last year there was only 2000 at the game because the UPS students (largely from out of state) were on spring break and had made flights before they knew UPS was hosting.

The UPS crowd is growing each year with the success of the program of course.  I wouldn't expect UPS to fill their 400 tickets but they should get a decent following to support them out in Wisconsin.  

If I can find a fairly inexpensive way to get to Stevens Point from Dallas, Texas, I'll be there.

So what's the scoop on UWSP this year?  Of course Kaslow and Bennet are 2 of the best in the country at this level, but what else?  How's your pg situation looking after the injury?  Strong conference play as usual this year?  Record at home?
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat1144 on March 09, 2005, 02:03:09 pm
Old School,

I've seen a deer or two but they were on TV.  

Most of your description sounds like things you can do down in town that Linfield is located, McMinnville, Oregon.  You can also go throw rocks at stuff, get into bar fights, etc.  

The difference is that afterwards we go by to the Starbucks drive thru that is located on the Linfield Campus and get a Grande double mocha latte.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Point Special on March 09, 2005, 03:13:16 pm
Wildcat,

I think you should probably say "recent" excellent athletic teams are something new.  UPS won the D-2 National Championship in 1976.

Also, the majority of people who come to games in Stevens Point are adults and families, not college students.  They have plenty of other options (uh... family stuff?) but they choose to come to a great basketball game, as a family.  

The perennial national leaders in D-3 are not in podunk towns with nothing to do.  The top 4 schools in attendance this season are Hope, Illinois Welseyan, Calvin (not sure of the order, I can't find the link with this year's numbers, but all were over 2000) and UW Stevens Point.  Now, like I said these schools aren't in country bumkin towns with nothing else going on.  Hope is in Holland (112,000 people), Calvin is in Grand Rapids (197,000), Illinois Welseyan is in Bloomington-Normal (113,100) and UWSP in Stevens Point (40,191).  The argument that there's SO much going on in Tacoma isn't that valid of an argument... I think that perhaps the University just needs to do a little more P.R. work... do some things in the community to get the community interested and involved and wanting to attend.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: BanditUWSP on March 09, 2005, 03:42:22 pm
Old School,  
you forgot that when it gets hot in the summer, the "rich folks" might cool off in their "cEEment pond" after drinking a little moonshine.  Sorry, got to run and do some "double naught" spy work for Granny, Ellie May and Uncle Jed.   (lol)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat1144 on March 09, 2005, 04:42:14 pm
Point Special,

Old School and I were just having some friendly banter.  It was not an indictment on the SP area.  Just some ribbing.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: hoops on March 09, 2005, 05:40:02 pm
Point Special,

were did you get the census numbers from at 40,191?  Point has just over 24,000 people in it.  just wondering
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Point Special on March 09, 2005, 06:58:14 pm
I cited the Stevens Point "metro area"... Stevens Point, Plover, Whiting, and Park Ridge all bump right up next to each other... I plopped them in the same category (in the same way I brought together Bloomington-Normal, and the Grand Rapids adjacent areas).
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 10, 2005, 01:50:51 am
Blackhawks,

Point basically has everyone back that they had last year, but they are a year better, as is everyone else, I guess!

As you know, Kalsow and Bennett are the big guns, but everyone contributes in their own ways and they don't always show up in the boxscore.  Sometimes it's just a key basket, rebound, steal, or whatever.  So, simply looking at the numbers won't give you a full sense of what kind of TEAM Point really is.

Kalsow and Bennett are probably the best 1-2 combo in the WIAC, let alone the nation.  There hasn't been a time, that I can remember, when a team has stopped BOTH of them.  Last week, for example, WIAC player of the year Kalsow was held to just 3 first half points.  But, Bennett went for 18 in the half.  It's hard to stop both of them.  

Supporting cast includes Kyle Grusczynski, who's a big shooting guard and can hit from long range.  Jon Krull can light it up too, going for 25 or so in the semi-finals last year vs. John Carroll.  Eric Maus is a great defender and can make those midrange jumpers.

This is the best passing team anyone will see.  They led the league in assists by a huge margin (averaging 2 more assists than the #2 team).  Kalsow is a point-forward and probably will be more relied upon with senior point guard Tamaris Relerford out for the rest of his college career.  Backup PG Shawn Lee and 3rd stringer Steve Hicklin are both freshman, but Hicklin was extremely impressive in place of Relerford in the 2nd half last weekend.  Ironically, Lee just returned from a broken hand (the injury that has sidelined Relerford).  They are good ballhandlers, but none of the point guards have been relied upon to score.  

Point was undefeated at home this year, going 16-0 so far, I think.  They averaged 1800 fans at home, in the 2800 seat gym.  The last 4 games (3 WIAC tourney games and vs. LU in the NCAAs) have brought in over 8500 fans, with the last game a sellout.  This weekend's games were sold out in less than 3 hours (some reports said 90 minutes, but that's not true).

They had to fight for basically every conference win and tied Platteville at the top at 13-3 (they split).  3rd place Oshkosh ended up 11-5.  They were taken to overtime, before winning at last place La Crosse.

Point's defense is real tough.  Their man to man is incredible, in your face, defense and their zone is aggressive and hard to get into the paint.

They've held their opponents to 20 or less points at half time NINE times this year.

(Message edited by shorty on March 10, 2005)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Eric Powers on March 10, 2005, 11:30:23 am
Long Time reader, first time Poster.

I just had to comment on the Pointers passing ability mentioned previously.  Over the last couple of years due to a work conflict I have had to listen to the games.  I went to the WIAC championship and then the Lawrence game and I was blown away with the unselfish play of all the Pointers.  Guys will give up decent shots, to make the extra pass for a higher percentage shot.

That is why I think the loss of Relerford will not be as huge as it would to most teams.  Once the get the ball across half court they don’t need to rely on one guy to handle the ball.  We still have Lee and Hicklin to run things, and Kalsow has shown that he can bring the ball up as well if needed.

The Pointer system does not rely on the PG to score, so we are not loosing points, there are 4 other seniors on the team, so they are not loosing any leadership, they are not even loosing the teams leader in assists, we will miss his toughness but I am sure that Relerford will turn in to the teams biggest fan rallying everyone else from the bench.  So as much as all Pointers wish Relerford could play, and feel horrible that his season ended this way.  The rest of the team will be able to pick up the slack.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Scandihoovian on March 11, 2005, 03:05:42 pm
Many of us SCIAC fans are pulling for the Loggers tonight - bring it home for the West Coast!

And Wildcat - I predict the Cal Lu Kingsmen will demolish your beloved Cats...   in Men's tennis on Saturday :-)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat1144 on March 11, 2005, 04:39:26 pm
Scandihoovian,

Yeah, the men's tennis team is still licking their wounds after getting bounced 7-0 by University of Portland.  

Hey speaking of licking wounds check out this disgusting story!

Go Loggers!
Go NWC!
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Scandihoovian on March 11, 2005, 05:18:47 pm
I'd hate to see what kind of demonstration that guy would use after a pep talk about putting a licking on the other team...

As always, Wildcat, you are a purveyor of fascinating insights into American culture.  With that thought I'm off to go listen to the latest Icy Hot Stuntaz download.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks#4 on March 11, 2005, 05:50:07 pm
I say 84-83 Loggers.  Look for UPS to be incredibly well prepared and apply smart pressure.  A lot was learned from last year.  Keys to the game in my opinion are:
1.  Loggers not giving up easy buckets in the press
2.  Mcvey staying out of foul trouble
3.  UPS annd particularly Curtiss shooting the ball well on the road
4.  UPS keeping composure in tough atmosphere
5.  Don't lose Bennet!!!! Limit Kaslow  

I'll be listening to every word and waiting for updates from the posters!!
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Old School on March 11, 2005, 11:33:38 pm
Point wins 81-63...the most uncomfortable 18-point win I've attended.  My hats off to the Loggers.  More later.
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: Point Special on March 12, 2005, 02:34:35 am
Concerning Blackhawk's post:

1) UWSP got a few easy buckets off of the press (not as many as last year).  They did, however, get a bunch of relatively easy baskets early.  They were just in the half-court offense and a product of some great passing, namely from Kalsow (7 assists to just one turnover).
2) McVey had 4 fouls, but he really played well.  Of all of the UPS players, he impressed me the most.  He was tenacious on the offensive end... but he was tenacious into double teams, which limited his potential effectiveness.  Still, though, he led UPS with 19 (I think he could have had 40 if he had played that hard and not been challenged).  
3)UPS shot 39% for the game (27% from 3).  Curtiss was 6/15 (4/12 from 3).  That isn't going to cut it when your opponent shoots 58% for the game, and you don't force that many turnovers (see comment below)
4)I feel that UPS lost their composure a little bit down the stretch, but I guess it depends on your definition of composure.  They were consistent, playing pretty dirty the whole game.  They seemed to "lose it" (i.e. their composure) after a few calls... but it's one thing to play hard, and it's another thing to play with malicious intent.  That may have just been the fault of the referee crew, however, not getting a handle on the game early.  I thought they let some things go, and that set the tone of the game.  I think players should be able to play hard, but when you have to worry about seemingly probable injuries from the colisions that were happening on the court, I think there's a problem.  But, I guess this is just my opinion, so take it as you will.
5. Bennett didn't go off like last year, though he did go for 22 on 5/10 shooting (3/4 from trey land) and 9/11 on the line.  Maus was the unstoppable one, going 7/7 from the field and 4/4 from the line for 18 points.  Combine that with Freshman Steve Hicklin (3rd string point guard) going for 15, and UWSP's big two didn't NEED unbelievable nights.

Keys to the game:  Puget Sound had +3 turnovers forced.  For them to have won the game tonight, they would have had to shoot the ball much better, or force at least 7-8 UWSP turnovers.  

Like I said, UPS played hard.  They should be proud of this season.  (for more on the game, check the WIAC page)
Title: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks#4 on March 12, 2005, 06:48:24 pm
Point Special:  

Thanks for the update on the game.  

As far as dirty play, UPS will play as hard and physical as any team in the nation.  As I'm sure you saw, UPS is not afraid of collisions or diving on the floor.  Also, UPS especially Curtiss will do seemingly anything to win.  That said UPS is not a dirty team and didn't have "malicious intent."  This was the biggest game of the year and I'm sure UPS left everything they had on the court.

Congrats to Aubrey Shelton on a great career, and Chris O'Donnel (the most underrated player in the NWC).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on August 16, 2005, 06:31:11 pm
GO 'CATS!!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on September 18, 2005, 07:17:56 pm
Lets get it started for the upcoming season! Who will be the team to beat? Any sleepers? Who are the players to watch, and what do you think of the conference tourney coming back?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: castle on September 28, 2005, 03:00:10 pm
What does Whitworth look like this year...after a down year last year, I expect them to be back atop the NWC in '05-06.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on September 30, 2005, 02:05:45 am
They should be much tougher this year. With Jon Young and Williams coming back stronger they should make a run. I'm not too sure about their incoming freshman class though.  I have heard a lot about Puget Sound during the offseason. They sopposedly have a few D1 transfers on board and a good looking recruiting class meshing with what was already a great team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: fosheezie on October 24, 2005, 08:48:02 pm
Coach Lowery for Coach of the Year.  He is a bad bad man!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on October 26, 2005, 05:33:51 am
If he can win 5+ games then he deserves it. Also, where is Jeremy Cross going this year, I saw he's not on the team at Puget anymore?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on October 27, 2005, 02:21:13 am
Who's gonna win the NWC this year????  Come on.  The only question is if UPS will finally go 16-0 or if somebody (LC or Will) will get them on the road. 

They are returning D3News Pre Season All-American Zack McVey.  Wait til the NWC sees him.  He is a man amongst boys (looking similair to Oriard a few years back but more athletic and better around the bucket).  And there is nobody better than Chase Curtiss in the clutch.  Add a solid starting lineup of returners around them, about 6 talented freshmen and 2 transfers and they just overpower the rest of the league.   

The conference tournament is a terrible idea.  Yes, it builds excitement and gives the rest of the league something to shoot for; but with so many teams in D3 UPS could go 15-1,  get upset in the tourney by a team they already beat twice in conference,  and not make the postseason.  In D3 the tourney is too small and there are too many teams. The NWC should send its best representation.

Hey I'm with it, Coach Lowry for COTY.  I think the magic number should be 4 though.  If he can go 4-12 that definetely qualifies him.  They should get the POTY too.



 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 27, 2005, 10:11:49 pm
The conference tournament is a terrible idea.  Yes, it builds excitement and gives the rest of the league something to shoot for; but with so many teams in D3 UPS could go 15-1,  get upset in the tourney by a team they already beat twice in conference,  and not make the postseason.

That's not likely to happen anymore, Blackhawks4. The tournament has expanded to 59 teams this year, and Pool C (at-large teams) is expanding from 5 to 18 slots. There's no way now that Puget Sound could go 15-1 in conference, lose in the NWC tourney, and then get left out in the cold on Selection Sunday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on October 28, 2005, 02:27:13 am
Mr. Sager, good point, I was not aware of the expansion of pool c teams.  However, it still does not change my opinion.  You and I both know that a 3rd place team in the NWC can end up with a 9-7 or 10-6 record.  That team has no business representing our league in the tourney if they pull off an upset.    If I'm not mistaken there are well over 350 teams in D3, and unlike D1,  4 and 5 teams from one conference will not make the tourney.  I disagree, I think there is a good chance that a first place team can get overlooked, especially with the midwest and east coast bias.      The team that wins the most league games over the course of the season should have the automatic bid.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 28, 2005, 02:43:58 am
I'm not a huge fan of conference tournaments, so I'm not going to argue that point with you. But you're dead wrong about a 15-1 NWC team getting left out in the cold. And with 18 Pool C bids now available I can't imagine many scenarios in which a regular-season NWC winner would be denied one of them if they needed it; the league would have to have a total logjam for anything like that to even be a possibility, with the upper half of the league consisting entirely of 10-6 and 9-7 teams. And how often is that going to happen?

Of course four or five teams from one conference won't make the tourney. Even if the number of slots was bumped up from the new total of 59 to D1's total of 65 you still wouldn't see four or five teams from one conference make the tournament. D3 is too big for that; there's 37 conferences that have automatic bids in D3. But that's hardly your original point, now, is it? It's a far cry from worrying whether your 15-1 regular-season champ can get an at-large bid if they falter in the conference tourney to worrying about whether your fourth- or fifth-place team can get an at-large bid. Since no conference has ever received that many bids in the past (with the exception of the NJAC, which got four teams in one year due to the fact that it was a 64-team tourney back then and bids were apportioned on a regional basis -- their region, the Atlantic, is the smallest of D3's eight regions), why even bring it up?

Oh, and there is no midwest and east coast bias in the selection process. That bias charge is a myth. If anything, the national selection committee is too scrupulously enslaved to the five primary criteria for selecting Pool C teams (in-region winning percentage, in-region Quality of Wins Index, in-region head-to-head competition, in-region results versus common regional opponents, and in-region results versus regionally ranked teams).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 29, 2005, 12:18:42 am
Mr. Sager, good point, I was not aware of the expansion of pool c teams.

Rather important story on the front page you'll want to read, then.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on October 29, 2005, 07:39:51 pm
Back to how the league will play out. I think there are just 2 teams that could have a chance to pull an upset on Puget. Whitworth has proven scorers, a sound ball handler, and a big man that can keep up with McVey. LC has lights-out shooters to keep pace with Curtiss etc. Both will need to play near flawless games to pull it off though. What does everyone else think?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Big Dave on October 30, 2005, 02:55:37 am
Blackhawks4~

I was curious if you knew where Jeremy Cross was?  He isn't on their roster...and I thought he was one of their best players.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on October 30, 2005, 06:53:17 am
Ok.  Use to be here before, and now getting back into this thing. 

Heard that UPS is just loaded and should run away with the league.  Do not know much about the other teams except LC and UPS.  LC has some good players from what I hear but are a bit small, but can shoot it.  Still a young team with most of team sophomores and freshman. 

Curious to know more about the other teams like Willamette, Fox, etc.  Need to get caught up after a few years away.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on October 30, 2005, 06:07:12 pm
There is no east coast and midwest bias?  Come on!  If it comes down to taking a west coast team or an east coast team with similair records the east coast team will go everytime.

Himjay, Who is Whitworth's big man? I'm with ya on williams but proven scorers? 

Will, L/C, ww  have a shot at UPS on the road. Little worried bout whitman too.

Big Dave??? The legend ???Wow.  Is that you??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 30, 2005, 06:28:55 pm
There is no east coast and midwest bias?  Come on!  If it comes down to taking a west coast team or an east coast team with similair records the east coast team will go everytime.

Do you have any examples?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Big Dave on October 30, 2005, 08:23:41 pm
Big Dave??? The legend ???Wow.  Is that you??

I am surprised that I get such excellent billing.  Whatever you want to call me...I am cool.  I was curious what the word is with Cross?  My football team (that I am coaching) is 6-2 and making a run at the league title.  We'll see what we can do.  I am running the defense...and we are really starting to play well.  Just wanted to say hello...and find out the outlook on the Loggers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on October 31, 2005, 03:03:51 am
I should have clarified about Whitworths "big man".  Lance Pecht is not really a stereotypical big man but at 6'4, 6'5 your a big man in this league.  He can score inside and he proved that last year by averaging over 15 a night. I spoke too soon however, when I said he would cause problems on defense for McVey, which I doubt. As far as scorers are concerned, I think the Pirates have one of the better offensive players in the league in senior Jon Young. Young could be the best shooter in the league and also put up 15+ per game last year. Another big body down low is George Tucker, yet another double digit scorer returning. With its top 4 players back, Whitworth looks like a solid #2 team.  Piofan, LC IS small, and that's an understatement. I heard that they are going to copy Puget's uptempo, all-out, pressing style. Expect more threes from them this year then in the past, which is really saying something. Wells is a long distance threat and they have a few others you have to keep an eye on.  Should be a fun year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on October 31, 2005, 06:21:47 pm
Thanks Himjay.  I know that LC will be playing very uptempo this year.  Heard it directly from the school itself.  And its hard to imagine them getting up more 3's than they already do, so that will be interesting. I cant wait to get back to Portland in January and see that.  Should be interesting.

Whitworth seems to continue to do well.  I was around in the mid-90's and ever since I can remember they have always had quality teams. 

Whats the news on Willamette?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on October 31, 2005, 06:35:58 pm
What I've heard about Cross is that he transfered and walked-on @ Wazzu, although he is not listed on their roster. I'm not 100% sure if that's true, but that's what I've heard from someone who saw him in Pullman a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on October 31, 2005, 06:42:42 pm
No prob. As far as Willamette goes, they have most of the top players from last years team back. Jon Olinger, who really came on during the second half of last year, was granted a post-grad year I believe and he should be their top guy back. I see them as a middle-to-upper level team this year. They have a lot of freshman, but I don't see any of them making a huge impact this year. David Fife, a freshman from Canby, has potential and could be a star for them in the future though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 01, 2005, 02:11:41 am
Allright with preseason right around the corner lets do it:
Preseason Picks

1st team
MVP:  Zack McVey ups
Chase Curtiss ups
Brian Williams ww
magnuson lc
pecht ww
ricker wmn

2nd team
schmick gfu
wells lc
olinger wu
ryan delong ups
young ww


newcomer (i know it's not a category but...) RJ Barsh ups

1. ups
2. ww
3. lc
4. wu
5. wmn
6. gfu
7. lin
8. plu
9. pac

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 01, 2005, 04:25:59 am
Magnuson is out until after the first semester. Don't know if he will rejoin the team then or not. Picks:

1-Puget
2-Whitworth
3-LC
4-George Fox
5-Willamette
6-PLU
7-Whitman
8-Linfield
9-Pacific

First team-
John Young WW
Chase Curtiss UPS
Magnuson LC (providing he plays)
McVey UPS
Williams WW

2nd team-

Olinger WU
Robinowitz LC
Pecht WW
Schmick GF
Kelly WHIT

Coach of the year- Hayford, Whitworth

Any thoughts, input?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: andrewf on November 01, 2005, 01:05:36 pm
I'd look for a challenge from George Fox this year.  The team finally got some confidence from their break out year last year and only lost ONE player from the team last year (technically 2, but the 2nd never played).  Granted the one player was POTY last year but provided they can come together as a team I could see them having a chance.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on November 01, 2005, 04:10:35 pm
Testing
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on November 01, 2005, 04:42:01 pm
Like to start by saying I'm glad I found this site, and am looking forward to talking about NWC hoops all year long (although I'd like to see some more Bearcats fans on here obviously).

First of all, as a WU alum, it was disappointing to see Willamette fall from the top of the league last year, although I don't expect them to stay there for long.  UPS has done a fantastic job over the past few years, taking the conference by storm and reinventing themselves (in my day, they were the also-ran school in Tacoma, that wore green and yellow).  Whitworth has certainly been a factor year in and year out, while the traditional powers, WU, LC and Linfield, have been a bit inconsistent.

That being said, my picks are:

1.UPS-losing Cross will hurt, but they've dealt with the loss of quality players before...whatever happened to the shooter from a few years ago...medved (i think)?
2.Whitworth-Came on strong at the end of last year, and pecht/williams are a strong tandem...the shooter, Young, was good as well
3.Willamette-Coach James will not stand for another sub-.500 season...Olinger is a player, and from the Midnight Madness I went to, the Bearcats looked a lot more athletic...they and Whitworth could easily flipflop all year long in the standings
4.G.Fox-lose Gayman, but have a lot back right?
5. LC-If they're hot, they can contend...but wow, if magnuson is gone, who's inside?
6. Whitman-seems like they're always right around here
7. PLU-don't know or here anything about them
8. Pacific-new coach, anyone here anything??
9. Linfield-shelton was great...but he's gone right? think they lost a lot more as well

Finally, have to disagree on the conference tourney question...think its great, keeps a lot of the teams alive in late january when they'd probably be playing for pride (and some aren't very good at that)...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: so_cal_connection on November 01, 2005, 09:53:41 pm
The newcomer to watch this year in the Northwest Conference is James Pickney at Puget Sound.  He's a 6'7" forward from San Diego who can fjump out of the gym and is very, very athletic.  Had several D1 opportunities, but chose to get a great education and have a better basketball experience.  Too bad Cross left, had he stayed they could've seriously challenged for the D3 national title with the addition of Pickney. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 02, 2005, 12:50:23 am
Any examples of east coast / midwest bias?? Look at the top 25 every year.  In recent history the NWC hardly ever has more than one team in (with the exception of lin/lc) about 5 years ago.  Why is this when it is one of the best D3 conferences in the nation (look at the Massey Ratings!) ??? Anyways, I'm over it.

Himjay--Disagree, I think Wells from lc is far and away the best shooter in the league.  Who is your MVP?
Finally, can you explain to me how you choose Hayford as COTY with UPS finishing first?  It just doesnt add up for me!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 02, 2005, 01:16:42 am
You're confusing two things that have nothing to do with each other, Blackhawks4. The D3hoops.com Top 25 has nothing to do with the NCAA selection committee choosing Pool C (at-large) teams for the tournament. Nothing at all. The D3hoops.com Top 25 is a private poll run by a private site.

You started this conversation by grousing about an NWC champ likely being left out in the cold with regard to Pool C thanks to the NWC tournament. Now you've moved on to this site's Top 25. As I said, two different, unrelated things.

Pat asked you for an example of a west coast team being unjustly shut out of Pool C. You didn't provide one. You merely cited that the NWC has had only one Pool C selection in the past five years (if, indeed, you're referring to the tournament and not still referring to the D3hoops.com Top 25 with that aside about Linfield and Lewis & Clark). But that's not proof. Which is the team that should've gotten in over that time, and which team should they have pushed out?

I still don't see any evidence that you're familiar with the way that the NCAA D3 tourney is set up with regard to at-large selections. Your charge of midwest and east coast bias remains specious.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 02, 2005, 03:23:26 am
Mr. Sager, my intention was to point out that the NWC and West Coast does not get represented as it should. 

I understand that the top 25 has nothing to do with the selection committee.  I 've seen highly ranked teams left out in past years.

You asked for bias and I drew attention to the Top 25.  Where the massey ratings put the NWC in the top 3 conferences in years past, we rarely had more than one team ranked at at time.

Its hard to point out bias in the tournament because our pool c had been so limited that many qualified teams were left out.  But how about this for bias.

It is financially hard for west coast d3 teams to get in region games due to proximity.  The NCAA uses in region games and records as a major criteria as you pointed out.  In a tough NWC, teams  hammer on each other (as we agreed upon) hurting their record.  With few other in region D3 games (other than cactus jam or taveling great distances for D3 games) often NWC teams are penalized because they can't get enough nonconference D3 action.  Now I don't know how this problem can be fixed, but you cannot deny that it exists.

Or what about our teams historically having to go to the midwest or east for playoffs?  The only reason UPS hosted 2 years back was because the stevens point women got the bid.  I understand the financial reasoning behind it, but is that fair?  What about LC going east for playoffs when they had their great teams a few years back.  Whether it can be controlled or not or its intentional or not its an unfair act based on location and finances.     

East coast teams have a better chance at making the tournament and getting at large bids despite the fact that the NWC is historically one of the best around. If you really feel there is no bias than fine, but I disagree.   

Now I'm sure you'll respond and make very good points (as you have in your previous posts) but I'm ready to talk NWC, because I really don't find this as interesting.

Loggers go to San Jose State saturday.   






Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 02, 2005, 04:01:59 am
I asked for evidence of bias with regard to the D3 tournament, which is what we were talking about. Hence, this quote of yours that raised the question of bias:

Mr. Sager, good point, I was not aware of the expansion of pool c teams.  However, it still does not change my opinion.  You and I both know that a 3rd place team in the NWC can end up with a 9-7 or 10-6 record.  That team has no business representing our league in the tourney if they pull off an upset.    If I'm not mistaken there are well over 350 teams in D3, and unlike D1,  4 and 5 teams from one conference will not make the tourney.  I disagree, I think there is a good chance that a first place team can get overlooked, especially with the midwest and east coast bias.      The team that wins the most league games over the course of the season should have the automatic bid.

If you have an issue with the D3hoops.com Top 25, re: that poll being out of sync with the Massey ratings, take that up with Pat Coleman. It's a completely different discussion than this one.

In the quote above you explicitly linked the possibility of a 15-1 NWC champ getting left out of Pool C after losing in the NWC tourney to midwest and east coast bias. It seems to me that you've tried to change the argument from one in which you're questioning the NCAA selection committee to one in which you're questioning the integrity of Pat's Top 25 poll. I simply ask that you stick to one argument at a time.

It's true that the NWC is handicapped by geography in terms of scheduling West Region non-conf games. But that doesn't affect the way NWC teams are treated by the five Pool C criteria, which are:

* win-lose percentage against regional opponents;
* Quality of Wins Index;
* In-region head-to-head competition;
* In-region results versus common regional opponents;
* In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.

These criteria were, in fact, set up to help allay the problem faced by geographically remote conferences such as yours and the ASC and the SCIAC -- namely, the annual shortage of non-conference regional games due to distance constraints.

Notice that the first criterion is based upon win-lose percentage. Say the NWC champ goes 13-3 in conference, doesn't play any non-conference West Region games, and loses the NWC tourney championship. That makes them 13-4 (.764) in the West Region for the season -- and it gives them a leg up on a Pool C aspirant from a more geographically central league that played a lot more games within their region and went, say, 18-6 (.750).

The second criterion is likewise quantity-neutral. Quality of Wins Index is measured by the 15-to-0 scale (15 points awarded for a road victory over a team with a regional winning percentage at or above .667, 14 points awarded for a home victory over a team with a regional winning percentage at or above .667, 13 points awarded for a road victory over a team with a regional winning percentage between .500 and .666, etc., on down to 0 points awarded for a home loss to a team with a regional winning percentage below .333). You add up the points you earned in each regional game, be it win or loss, and divide it by the number of games you've played in the region. In other words, playing more games within the region (as most other D3 teams tend to do in comparison to NWC teams) doesn't improve your chances of having a higher QoWI.

The third, fourth, and fifth criteria will most likely be irrelevant in the case of a NWC or SCIAC Pool C aspirant, unless there's another regionally-ranked opponent or Pool C aspirant within the conference. Some of the also-ran teams from more geographically central leagues that likewise aspire to get their name called for Pool C on Selection Sunday do well in these three categories, others do poorly. By dint of their lack of games against regionally-ranked opponents, head-to-head games against (or common opponents with) other West Region teams seeking a Pool C bid, etc., NWC teams will be pretty much even-steven in these categories.

In other words, the penalty for not being able to play many (if any) West Region non-conference games doesn't exist. Rather, the NWC plays on a slightly different scale of regional competition in which most, if not all, of their regional games are played within their own conference. It makes the conference season all the more important in your league, if anything. And the argument about this being a handicap because the NWC beats itself up so much doesn't hold any water, because every league makes that claim. In fact, your regionmates in Wisconsin harp on that point more than anybody else on Posting Up, because the widespread perception in D3 is that the WIAC is the toughest league in the land and they therefore ought to have more Pool C teams than they do -- but they can't get them because the WIAC cannibalizes itself in league play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 02, 2005, 04:05:56 am
As for the point about travel and the lack of hosting opportunities afforded to the NWC, that, too, is a separate argument that has nothing to do with Pool C bids. I agree that it isn't fair, although you and I both know that the parsimony of D3 (our national tournament, after all, is a money loser and it's essentially bankrolled by D1) is the reason behind it rather than bias.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 02, 2005, 07:44:24 am
Bearcats fan- in regards to LC not having Magnuson..that will explain why the team will go 100% uptempo and launch as many 3's as possible.  Should be interesting if Tommy does come back or he sits it out to save a year. 

Thanks for the info on Willamette.  John Olinger is back for them.  That is good.  I remember that kid as a little 8th grade punk, and now look at him.  hahahaha.  Not a big Willamette fan coming from LC and all, but hope he does well. 

This league has always been exciting and something can always happen.  I know UPS is stacked, but the ball is round, and you never know.  Expecting Bridgeland to have UPS ready to go though, so will be hard for the others to catch up.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 03, 2005, 06:33:43 am
blackhawks,  the reason I have Hayford winning coach of the year is because I think everyone expects Puget to run away with the league this year, which they might, but I think Whitworth will finish 13-3, possibly 14-2 and beat Puget when they play them at home. If this happens then I think Hayford will deserve it. With regards to Wells, he is a great shooter, even though he went through a tough year shooting the ball in 04-05. I do expect him to be back to his old self hitting around 40%. I'd say the top 3 shooters in the league are Wells, Young, and Aaron Schmick. Others right up there are Kawazoe at Pacific, Robinowitz LC, and Oliver PLU.  George Fox should also contend for the playoffs, but the loss of Gayman, who was not only the teams top player but also their unquestioned leader, will be just a little too much to overcome.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: HopeHoopsFan on November 03, 2005, 07:16:10 pm
 test
Title: Threepeat Anyone?
Post by: Loggerville on November 03, 2005, 11:52:26 pm
Well, seems we all agree this is a race for second, so best wishes to  the rest of the NWC for moral victories.

And while I would agree with Blawkhacks4 - a smooth court operator in his day I might add - that geographical isolation is an issue for the NWC schools in general, the programs need to take the responsibility for that.  Bridgeland has done a job of trying to get the UPS squad out of the area to play non-conference games of meaning - traveling to the South region two years ago comes to mind, along with this year's Cali match-ups - but the rest of the conference needs to follow the lead. 

If Presidents and AD's are going to join an NCAA Div. III, then funding needs to follow to allow for travel and the scheduling of DIII competition out of the NW.  Pacific last season played no DIII games other than the conference schedule I believe.  Until the conference as a whole takes seriously the issue of building national cred. by going and playing folks, it is hard to argue with the lack of respect at the regional and national level.

That being said, the Logger have done a job of getting their individual institution respect, and winning home games and providing quality NCAA play-off games is a good start.

Should be a good season, and don't sleep on R Jay Barsh, he's a NWC POY canadiate for sure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 04, 2005, 12:31:19 am
And while I would agree with Blawkhacks4 - a smooth court operator in his day I might add - that geographical isolation is an issue for the NWC schools in general, the programs need to take the responsibility for that. Bridgeland has done a job of trying to get the UPS squad out of the area to play non-conference games of meaning - traveling to the South region two years ago comes to mind, along with this year's Cali match-ups - but the rest of the conference needs to follow the lead.

If Presidents and AD's are going to join an NCAA Div. III, then funding needs to follow to allow for travel and the scheduling of DIII competition out of the NW. Pacific last season played no DIII games other than the conference schedule I believe. Until the conference as a whole takes seriously the issue of building national cred. by going and playing folks, it is hard to argue with the lack of respect at the regional and national level.

Well said, and I'd add that it appears that the presidents and ADs of D3 are making a concerted effort to help out NWC and its fellow geographical isolates in that regard. There's a proposal on the table for action at next year's D3 convocation to turn all games between D3 opponents that are played five days removed from a class day -- in other words, games played over Christmas break -- into regional games. In other words, an NWC team could go to the Cactus Jam and have every single game they play count as a regional game, even if they're playing the likes of Amherst, Alfred, Albion, or Augustana, as long as that team is a member of D3. And an NWC team that travels to La-La-Land and participates in a SCIAC tournament over the holidays would no longer have to hope that they get scheduled against a SCIAC, WIAC, IIAC, or MIAC team -- every game in that tournament played against a D3 team would count as a regional game, regardless of the home region of the foe.

If this proposal passes, it could be a real boon to solving the problem of the NWC not playing enough non-conference West Region games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 04, 2005, 06:37:28 pm
Guys- please excuse my ignorance on the selections and game count issues, as I am still catching up to this.  Do the games against quality teams not count anymore?  Meaning, if a D3 plays a D2 for example and wins, does that help them, hurt them, or doesnt matter?

I agree 100% that the NWC teams have to leave the area and stop playing the other schools in the NW.  LC has been doing it for years, UPS is consistant now with it and Whitworth has done a good job of things since my time in the 90's, but the other schools are just too inconsistant with it. 

With regards to the money for the budgets...that is a hard situation to overcome.  Look at what happened to Pio football.  Season cut short due to lack of players, which is points at a lack of recruiting, lack of school help, lack of money.  That said, most of these schools will not spend if their team is not "that good".  I really feel that if all the schools had the reputation of UPS or LC (a few years ago with Scott Davis, Oriard and the group) in D3 then the school would spend a little more because they are 1) representing the school 2) spreading the name of the school to all over the nation. 

The schools and administrators have to realize there is more to sports than just sports.  Some schools have great support, but some do not.  A personal opinion that things need to be changed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 04, 2005, 07:04:30 pm
Guys- please excuse my ignorance on the selections and game count issues, as I am still catching up to this. Do the games against quality teams not count anymore? Meaning, if a D3 plays a D2 for example and wins, does that help them, hurt them, or doesnt matter?

Don't worry, Piofan -- the methodology that D3 uses for tournament selection is pretty byzantine by anybody's standards.

To answer your question: No, games played against non-D3 teams (D1, D2, NAIA, NCCAA, etc.) do not count in terms of the selection committee's criteria. In fact, they never did. The D3 tournament has been based strictly upon D3 vs. D3 competition since long before your league entered the division in the late '90s. Non-D3 games still count on a team's record, but they're irrelevant in terms of postseason play.

The more pertinent point, though, is that a lot of D3 vs. D3 games don't count, either. The criteria are now completely regionally-based. In other words, how an NWC team fares against a team such as Elmhurst or Eastern Nazarene or Emory & Henry is just as irrelevant as how they do against a D2 team. The committee only looks at how an NWC team does against other West Region (NWC, SCIAC, WIAC, MIAC, and IIAC) teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 04, 2005, 07:15:31 pm
Greg Sager-  I find that absolutely crazy.  I knew the selection process and everything was a bit off when I was explained it by the LC coaches during Scott Davis years.  Didnt get it then, still dont get it.

I just dont understand how a game against another D3 or higher can not be counted.  I know the D1 selection looks at that kind of thing.  If a team played too many D2's then they will probably get omitted from the field.  Shouldnt it be the opposite for the D3's?! I'll "give" them the NAIA schools not counting.  Dont agree with that also since I have seen some really really good players and teams at that level.  But ok.  Just seems strange to me that you cant count something that is suppose to be making you better.  This is probably been discussed for years on years. 

Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 04, 2005, 07:57:23 pm
Actually, D1 teams aren't penalized for playing games against D2 or D3 or NAIA teams. They just don't get credit for them. Those games aren't added onto their RPI or figured into their pertinent (as opposed to actual) records. In effect, they're simply irrelevant in the same way that they're irrelevant for tournament purposes from the point of view of the D2 or D3 team.

There's several reasons why games against D1 or D2 teams don't count for tournament purposes. First, not every D3 team gets the opportunity to play an NCAA scholarship team. Since those games don't count for their (D1 or D2) tournament purposes either, they don't tend to draw as well, and they usually don't provide much in the way of competition, D1 and D2 teams don't have much incentive anymore to schedule D3 teams. Such games still exist, of course, but there aren't as many as there used to be -- particularly in terms of D1 vs. D3. Counting such games would therefore constitute an uneven playing field in terms of D3 tournament merit.

Second, one of the expressed purposes of D3 is to facilitate competition within the division. The whole idea behind D3 is that it consists of like-minded schools that share a common philosophy regarding the student-athlete. D3 wants to encourage its schools to play each other (in fact, it goes one step beyond that -- it wants to encourage its schools to play their near neighbors within D3, which is why the tournament is based upon regional criteria). Encouraging games against non-D3 competition works at cross-purposes to that.

Lastly, D3 has some modicum of control over gauging the competitive level within itself -- screwy and haphazard though it may be. Gauging non-D3 competition is something that's completely out of their hands.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 05, 2005, 05:42:59 am
That all makes a lot of sense in creating more D3 vs D3 action, and think thats a great idea.  In regards to competing with the scholorship schools, I still think there should be a small bonus (not saying it is a lot by any means) for playing these teams.  Just a personal thought.  I think playing the "big boys" makes teams and programs better. 

The part I do not get is the not  counting of games outside of the region.  I think a D3 vs D3 game should count no matter what.  It also allows some programs to be able to travel a little bit more.  Always fun for the kids.  At least they are trying to make the Christmas Break schedule like that. 

In regards to the Midwest teams and East teams having better chances at tournament time, that seems real easy for me to understand.  More schools, more opportunity to play in the region.  I do not think that is too much.  A bit unfair, maybe, but in the rules.  Remember the NWC decide to go D3, and that is part of the game that needs to be played.  The answer is simple, go to California and play as many games as you can to get the count up.  Again, assuming I am reading and understanding correctly.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 05, 2005, 11:09:55 am
Playing the big boys does make D3 teams better (and richer, incidentally, since D1 and D2 teams are required to give gate guarantees to their D3 visitors). But D3 presidents, ADs, and coaches tend to view that as reward enough. It's all the incentive that's needed to schedule those games. Giving D3 teams actual tournament-relevant credit for them would be more trouble than it's worth.

You're basically preaching to the choir with regard to your statement that all D3 vs. D3 games should count for tournament purposes, since that's an almost-universal belief on Posting Up. Nevertheless, I do understand the reasoning behind D3's leadership electing to make only regional games tournament-relevant, even though I don't agree with it. Time spent traveling long distances on buses (or, in the NWC's case, planes) in order to play games means time spent away from the classroom. In D3's philosophy the classroom is paramount, and every attempt should be made to keep D3 student-athletes from missing class time. Contrast that with D1, where the mercenaries who are disguised as student-athletes miss half of their classes because they're flying from one end of the continent to the other in the middle of the week for basketball games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 05, 2005, 05:46:37 pm
I agree with the classroom thought process of D3, but of course the next question would be, how can you not count D3 games when school is out of session during the semester break.  Glad they want to fix that now, and better late than never, but should have been done a long time ago since it doesnt effect the classroom. (again, probably the choir here singing also)

And if they are worried about classroom time, then its easy for the schools in CA, to fly up and NWC to fly down.  You could leave late Friday, play Saturday and Sunday, and still catch flights back.  So seems to me the schools need to try and fix their schedules to do this to maximixe their chances.  Then use the semester break to head to Texas, Arizona, and the East Coast (I think I saw these places on different schedules). 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 06, 2005, 02:02:08 am
The NWC just came out with the preseason coaches poll:

1-Puget Sound-all 9 first place votes-90pts
2-George Fox-62 pts
3-Whitworth-61 pts
4-Willamette-50 pts
5-Lewis & Clark-45 pts
6-Linfield-36 pts
7-Whitman-35 pts
8-PLU-20 pts
9-Pacific-15 pts

Thoughts, reaction?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on November 06, 2005, 06:06:34 pm
UPS lost 107-90 to san jose st.  Not bad playing without McVey.  As everyone knows I'm as big a UPS fan as there is, but they are young!!!  They're really gonna  need great leadership if they're gonna run through the NWC as expected.  If anyone can do it, its the 4 seniors they have now.  But, after the UPS starting 5, everyone else is unproven.  And with the way they play, they're gonna need more than 5.

Himjay, I'm so confused as to how Hayford becomes more qualified than Bridgeland for COTY if UPS goes 15-1 as you said.  That would make UPS only um... 45-3 in the NWC in 3 years.  Whitworth and Linfield should be the class of the NWC year in and year out.  Their facilities, reputation, administration, fan, booster support, and correct me if I'm wrong but budget exceed everyone elses.  Whther they've underachieved or UPS has overachieved, no coach is more deserving than Puget Sound's. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 06, 2005, 07:16:47 pm
You make a strong point.  I should have said however, that I think puget will end up 14-2 or 13-3. I think they will lose at Whitworth and they will be upset by someone along the likes of George Fox, Willamette. If both teams finish in the 14-2, 13-3 range then Hayford should get it. I do agree though, with what your saying about Whitworths budget and the facilities they have.  I said that the loggers would be 15-1 before I knew that Cross would not be with them this year.  Also, does anyone know why McVey didn't play?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Big Dave on November 08, 2005, 01:44:10 am
does anyone know why McVey didn't play?

I was told that he hadn't been feeling well last week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 09, 2005, 02:52:27 am
COTY always comes down to the way teams perform.  If UPS is challenged at all in more than a game or two and still win, Bridgeland should win it.  But if UPS blows everyone out of the water than that is great recruiting to get better players and not necessarily better coaching.

If another team, say WW or a team from the bottom of the coaches poll makes the playoffs, then look for that coach to win the COTY.  I personally think Bridgeland, despite all the great things he has done, may be out of the running at the start of the season, because he is expected to do so well.  No arguments from me he is a great coach, just another thought as to why another coach probably wins COTY.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on November 10, 2005, 11:31:22 am
Zack McVey isnt even an Honorable Mention All-American?!  Ridiculous!  You cant tell me there are 10 better D3 big men out there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on November 14, 2005, 06:19:57 pm
Have to agree with SpooH SreggoLregarding McVey.   ???  Perhaps McVey can tape this list inside his locker and remind himself of the haters out there each night.  Scary when he plays with passion.

As for
COTY always comes down to the way teams perform. If UPS is challenged at all in more than a game or two and still win, Bridgeland should win it. But if UPS blows everyone out of the water than that is great recruiting to get better players and not necessarily better coaching.

This makes no sense to me.  Last time I checked, recruiting was in a coaches' job description, so "punishing" a coach for having better talent on the floor is just crazy.  In fact, you could make an argument that by having more talent suit up and take to the floor, Bridgeland is outworking his peers not just on game night but over the course of a season. 

I'll grant you that game day coaching is an important part of selecting a COY, but selecting a coach who takes an average team and has them over perform for a few weeks is rewarding one type of achievement.  Recruiting talent, getting that talent to by into a system of play that doesn't highlight individuals, and responding to everyone's best shot night in and night is no small achievement.  Blowing teams out of the water is not a result of grabbing kids, handing them jerseys and having them roll-up tough NWC teams.  It is a committment to a program that goes beyond game day.  That is plenty to qualify one for COY in my opinion.  Expectations aside, the winner of the NWC should get the award.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 14, 2005, 10:50:07 pm
Loggerville-  I agree with 100% that recruiting is part of the job, and that it should go into the COY award, but if a coach's team that plays better than expected for the whole year is going to have better chances.  For years, the COY is based on the season and not the whole year.  I know Bridgelands work ethic personally, and he deserves it already, but if another team gives him a run for his money, then that other coach will probably get COY. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 17, 2005, 01:36:02 am
Be sure to head over to the Multi-Regional Topics Board and select your team for the new Survivor Pool!  :D

You might actually win something!  ;D

Deadline is Friday before the first game's tipoff
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 17, 2005, 10:46:05 am
Season officially starting tomorrow.  Some games that could be interesting:

PLU @ Eastern Washington

L&C vs. Colorado-Pueblo (D2)

Pacific vs. Southern Oregon

Should be VERY hard for any of these three to pull of an upset.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on November 17, 2005, 03:52:01 pm
Should be very hard.  LC should hoist a lot of threes.  They put up 72 against Oregon State in their exhibition game.  They took 88 shots in all.  Going to be interesting year on Palatine Hill. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 17, 2005, 04:28:08 pm
From what I see, it should be a long year as well. Once teams just start daring them to take it inside or the three isn't falling, just like at OSU, they really don't have much of a chance. Also, the 5 in, 5 out formula works for Grinnell and Redlands, but if you only have a few guys who can hit outside shots like LC, it doesn't make much sense.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2005, 12:38:41 am
Have to agree with SpooH SreggoLregarding McVey.   ???  Perhaps McVey can tape this list inside his locker and remind himself of the haters out there each night.  Scary when he plays with passion.

Two things come to mind:

1) He doesn't always play with passion??
2) Just because someone isn't on a preseason team, or in a preseason poll, doesn't mean we hate him. There are 390 men's basketball teams and 25 slots, so with 1,950 starters alone in Division III and over 200 first-team all-conference players, keep in mind the competition is fierce.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 21, 2005, 02:54:39 am
After these first few games, here are some thoughts on how the league looks this year. I know its very early but here are some observations.

1- The league looks to be a lot more balanced this year. Whitman and Linfield both started the season with wins against decent competition.  I think every team will be able to come up with at least 6-7 conference wins excluding Pacific and maybe PLU.

2-George Fox looked really good. They have plenty of talented guards to go with a solid big man in Szalay. They could be a major threat to UPS.

3-Some really big scoring games early on from players. Heu-Weller putting up 32 in 33 min and Olinger going off for 29.

4-Puget Sound beatable.... Only time will tell if they are deserving of such a high ranking
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on November 21, 2005, 09:08:38 am
Two things come to mind:
1) He doesn't always play with passion??
2) Just because someone isn't on a preseason team, or in a preseason poll, doesn't mean we hate him. There are 390 men's basketball teams and 25 slots, so with 1,950 starters alone in Division III and over 200 first-team all-conference players, keep in mind the competition is fierce.

Pat - Thanks for the comment.  I don't believe I insinuated that you, or anyone on the selection committee for that matter, "hated" anyone; not earning a spot on a preseason all-America team shouldn't, and in this case I am sure isn't, a reflection of a voters personal feelings about a player.  I am aware of how many quality players there are in the nation at this level, and particularly at the forward position.  Like you I would guess, I haven't seen all of them play, and since this is the NWC board and I am clearly a Logger fan I see no surprise in my pulling for McVey. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Big Dave on November 22, 2005, 02:01:45 am
Like you I would guess, I haven't seen all of them play, and since this is the NWC board and I am clearly a Logger fan I see no surprise in my pulling for McVey.

I don't think it is fair to give any award based on your favorite team...otherwise Isaiah Stanback would win the Heisman and Manase Hopoi would win the Outland Trophy.  I also like Sonny Shackelford to win the Biletnikoff and Ty Willingham to win the Coach of the Year. 

There are many good players in DIII hoops...but a preseason award is not as valuable as any post-season honor.  Preseason polls mean nothing.  Look at Penn State in the Big 10.  Receiving a preseason award means that someone expects you to be good...but let's save the complaining for the end of the year...after the season.  It is nice to receive recognition; however, expectations tend to lead to disappointment.  I know Zack Mcvey is a dominant post player; but, I think an equal complaint could could be made for overlooking Chase Curtiss.  He is a phenominal competitor and a fantastic leader.  He plays under control yet with an intense fire.  The Loggers succeed because he is an amazing person on the court and in the locker room.  They are both fun to watch...and Zack has put in some serious time in the weight room.  Let those two play...and they will receive the awards based on their performance and not their hype.  All players should.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on November 22, 2005, 08:35:26 am
Big Dave, couldn't agree with you more on letting play decide where the awards end up, esp. at the end of the year.  I'd also agree that Chase Curtiss is an extremely talented player and deserving of consideration for preseason awards as well; the guard spot is just much tougher to get separation among the many talented players, particularly the way the all-america teams broke out with fewer spots for G than F/C.

For the record however, I am not "giving" away awards to a favorite player as you suggest.  Pulling for a returning all-conference selection, arguably the best big man in the NWC, and a key player on the preseason #4 ranked team to get some national recognition for his program and the NWC isn't a thing like wishing Ty Willingham would win coach of the year; my position isn't indefensible and outlandish.  I think we play some pretty good DIII basketball out west and frankly would like to see the players from out here get the recognition they deserve.  Curtiss, McVey, or anyone of the other worthy players from the NWC would be fine with me.
 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Big Dave on November 22, 2005, 04:35:41 pm
Blackhawk4~

Did you play in the Alumni game???  How many did you have?? I envision something like 44pts, 11boards, & 7dimes.  Maybe you didn't play.  The Alumni did lose.  I will be at the game on Friday PM.  I hope that the atmosphere has improved from my expensive tenure at the University.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on November 22, 2005, 10:38:12 pm
I hope that the atmosphere has improved from my expensive tenure at the University.

Keep in mind that it is Thanksgiving Break so school is out and the student section will be smaller because of it.  The games have been well attended in recent years (ave. attendance 1011).  Enjoy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pugetmr on November 23, 2005, 05:35:10 pm
I have met numerous people...and I believe that I am one of those individuals...that can dominate an entire gym with their loud voice.  I love going on the road to the crowded gyms and being louder than their crowd.  Even when you lose...you still get love from the home crowd.  I once got to go with Hayford and the rest of the Whitworth basketball team to pizza after a game.  I did know some of their players.  Unless you are an idiot...You can be loud and crazy and most of the time the opponents fans will be cool.  It is when you chant dumb/inappropriate things that crowds tend to get mad. 

School spirit should be fun...but I find that most the students at UPS are too rich or too liberal to care about anything that much.  This is also why UPS only gets donations from (around) 15% of its alumni.  Most the students don't care about the University outside of their four years there.  Most the time they don't even care while they are there.  Most just want their degree...and they miss the full collegiate experience.  Average attendance does not mean that they care.  If they really cared, students would go to all the games even if UPS wasn't good.  When UPS wasn't as good...the attendance was much worse.  I find it hard to believe that students genuinely care now.  Apathy isn't changed in 5-10 years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on November 25, 2005, 06:36:50 am
Quote
This is also why UPS only gets donations from (around) 15% of its alumni.

My uncle played ball for UPS in the 80's and I know that a lot of the alumni were upset when UPS went from D2 to D3 and changed the colors. Plus many do not like Bridgeland because he has almost erased all memory of basketball prior to him, even went so far as to try and have the championship banner removed from the gym. This may explain some of the lack of alumni support.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pugetmr on November 26, 2005, 04:51:29 am
There are many good reasons why UPS fails to get alumni support; but, I am almost certain that Bridgeland is not the reason.  This is a dilemma UPS has dealt with since the 90's.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 26, 2005, 05:53:12 am
Speaking of UPS, they lost last night at home to Warner Pacific. Not quite the start people thought they would get off to. From their first two games they look very vulnerable this year.
Title: Early Results
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on November 28, 2005, 01:09:02 pm
UPS loss to Warner Pac was very surprising (although many have said WPac is a legitimate threat in the Cascade Conference)...especially on the Loggers home floor.  Anyone go to the game?

Willamette posted an impressive early season win, beating #4 (NAIA) Oregon Tech, but then lost to Southern (#2 NAIA) the next night...the Bearcats have been very good Friday nights so far, and then find ways to lose games Saturday...

Question: With so many battles between the Cascade and Northwest Conferences, anyone have any thoughts on which league is better right now? (IMO: The Cascade has a few standout players that the NWC can't match in Fiegi and Shea Washington, but I'll still take the coaching and overall teams in the NWC)...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on November 28, 2005, 03:25:38 pm
Great question. Your right, despite the cascade having those few big name players, I would take the NWC overall. The teams are much better coached and seem to play together much better them some of the cascade teams.   I have been to roughly 10 games with either NWC or CCC teams in them this year and overall intensity of the games seems to be much higher in the Northwest. Despite the Loggers loss, I would still take them, Whitworth, and Willamette over any Cascade squad this year.
Title: WU-LC
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on November 30, 2005, 11:54:16 am
Willamette wins easily, 89-64, at LC...Bearcats looked ok in the first half, but played very well in the 2nd half...Stuvland had a big game, and the Fife kid from Canby was very good off the bench...

With the way LC presses, the UPS game Friday should be fun to watch...lots of points to be had...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: andrewf on December 03, 2005, 01:15:23 am
George Fox just had the most amazing comeback I have ever seen in my life!  Down by over 20 in the second half, they came back to tie it as time ran out and took it in over time.

Props to the GFU team!!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 03, 2005, 10:48:38 am
Good balanced win for the Loggers on the road; after a slower first-half then some may have expected they went of one of the runs that have defined UPS hoops of late - a 30-4 run over 9 min.  early in the second half that turned a one-point def.  into a 25-point advantage.  Only ten turnovers for the Loggers has to make the coaching staff happy as well.  On to Pacific.

Nice win for GFU was well over the Rats...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: big_al on December 04, 2005, 12:36:24 am
Much better game for the Bruins tonight, they still will need to pick it up another notch or two for when Corban comes to thier gym next Tuesday.

There's only one word to describe the first 33 minutes of Bruin play Friday night, and that word is UGLY. The only thing that kept them in the game at all was Szalay. For the first 25 minutes of the game Szalay scored over half of the teams points, and in the first half while the rest of the team whent 2-21 from the field, Szalay was 5-7. It was he that tipped the ball in as time was expiring to put the game into overtime, and it was his 19 board and 4 blocks that controlled the key.
If Szalay can step up again Tuesday night against Corban and Fiegi, look for there there to be a different outcome for sure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tezbaseball on December 06, 2005, 05:57:19 pm
Any one know if a Kelsey is playing for Pacific this season?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on December 07, 2005, 02:42:21 am
Nope
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tezbaseball on December 07, 2005, 12:17:22 pm
Nope

You don't no or there is no Kelsey playing this year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on December 07, 2005, 01:22:50 pm
Sorry for not being more specific, he's not on the team.  Also, Lowery doing a great job so far up there with very little to work with.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tezbaseball on December 07, 2005, 06:15:20 pm
Sorry for not being more specific, he's not on the team.  Also, Lowery doing a great job so far up there with very little to work with.

Is he still on the church mission or did AJ transfer?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 09, 2005, 04:07:11 pm
I see that Puget Sound is coming to Southern California for games on the 18th, 19th, and 21st (in Pasadena and Riverside), and again on the 29th and 30th (at Westmont.)  Since Christmas falls in between, I assume they are not staying in the Southland for that intervening week.  Right?  ???  Does anyone think that all that travel (three trips up and down the coast in 10 days) will have any effect on the Loggers prior to their big game against #1 Illinois Wesleyan on the 29th?  Are there maybe some UPS players from SoCal that will stay and not return to the Northwest between these games?  Just curious; I hope UPS is good and fresh for that IWU game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 10, 2005, 03:14:04 pm
I wouldn't worry about plane  the travel too much.  The flights are short - actually shorter than the conference bus trips - the time zones the same, and the trips are far enough apart that they shouldn't effect each other.

The question would be when is IWU coming into town, and how will a 2000+ mile trip treat their legs?  Should be a good test for both teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 11, 2005, 08:20:59 pm
IWU flies into LAX on 12/27 and drives up to Santa Barbara.  They'll practice 12/28 before the games on 12/29-30.

IWU vs Puget Sound should be a great game...looking forward to seeing the Loggers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 12, 2005, 11:53:51 pm
IWU flies into LAX on 12/27 and drives up to Santa Barbara. They'll practice 12/28 before the games on 12/29-30.

IWU vs Puget Sound should be a great game...looking forward to seeing the Loggers.

Thanks for the update Titan Q...should be a good one for sure.  You may not know, but when was the last time IWU came to the West coast for games?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: castle on December 13, 2005, 02:52:27 pm
Last time that I know IWU was out west was back in '01-'02...  I was on the CLU team that IWU beat 97-71 on the day after new years.  That IWU team went 12-13, but they were well rested and prepared for that game...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 15, 2005, 11:24:21 pm
Thanks for the info...I figured it wasn't often they made it our west.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 16, 2005, 08:43:10 am
Loggerville and Castle, Illinois Wesleyan takes a trip between Christmas and New Year's every year.  The last trips to the "west" have been...

2002-03: Hawaii
IWU 76
St. John's 56

IWU 89
UW-Stout 75

IWU 68
Nebraska Wesleyan 56

2001-02: Southern California
U. of Alberta 82
IWU 76
(@ Westmont College)

IWU 73
St. Xavier 67
(@Westmont College)

IWU 97
Cal Lutheran 71

1998-99: Hawaii
Chaminade 80
IWU 73

IWU 92
BYU-Hawaii 87

Hawaii Pacific 89
IWU 71

1996-97: Southern California
IWU 82
Concordia (CA) 77

IWU 83
Montana St - Northern 79
(@ Westmont College)

IWU 68
Westmont 60
(@ Westmont College)


The 1996-97 team wasn't supposed to be any good.  IWU graduated 4 starters and 7 of the top 8 from a Final Four team.  I believe the Titans were picked 5th by the coaches in the preseason CCIW coaches poll.  When the Titans came back from California 11-0 with wins over what Dennie Bridges felt were really good Concordia and Westmont teams, you could tell he started to feel like he had some special developing.  IWU went on to finish 29-2 and win a national championship that season. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on December 16, 2005, 03:41:52 pm
IWU's trips are everywhere.  As a member of the 97-98 LC team, we lost to them in Florida around New Year's during a tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 19, 2005, 12:58:13 am
UPS beat Penn St.-Behrend 98-83 tonight at CalTech.  I'm not anxious to draw conclusions based on one game, far from home, against a mediocre opponent,  but UPS wasn't very impressive tonight.  Their defense was intense and kept Behrend off-balance most of the night, but the offense was ragged.  It's possible that they were taking this trip lightly, so I'll reserve the benefit of the doubt.  But if I'm Illinois Wesleyan (and I'm NOT  :)), I'm not too scared at this point.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 19, 2005, 10:38:15 am
but UPS wasn't very impressive tonight.  Their defense was intense and kept Behrend off-balance most of the night, but the offense was ragged.

Dave, sounds like you saw UPS basketball as it has become as of late – controlled ciaos.  Defensive pressure is their hallmark, so if that was there last night - as you indicate - I wouldn’t worry too much about the offensive.  If the team can put up 98 and have three scorers over 18 on a night the offense looked “ragged” then Logger fans will take it.  Coming off a flight, finals week that ended Dec. 15th, and just over two weeks since the last game I wouldn’t have expected a world beating effort last night.  Should get one tonight as well and then see how the game against UC Riverside goes on the 21st.

Titan Q, thanks for the update on the schedule/travel.  They have had some good trips and success as well; looking forward to their trip West this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 1992 on December 19, 2005, 02:19:47 pm
Has anyone seen Pacific play?  I know about Kawazzoe, but do they have anyone else?

Lowery has them at 6-3 with their only losses being to UPS and Southern Oregon twice, and it looks like they played them well in Ashland the second time. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on December 22, 2005, 12:32:46 am
Loggers rally from 13 def. at half to drop UC-Riverside 115-111.  Anyone know the last NWC win over a D1 team?   ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 22, 2005, 12:40:26 am
WOW! Watch out when you come to Cali Illinois Wesleyan, the Loggers seem comfortable down there! 115-111 over D1 UC Riverside
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 22, 2005, 01:51:54 am
Illinois Wesleyan is significantly better than UC Riverside.

Congratulations to Puget Sound, however. We love any D-III win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 22, 2005, 08:31:29 am
Congrats, Loggers!  Looking forward to the big game in Santa Barbara! 

Here is what I posted on CCIW Chat this morning...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the second time this season IWU will face a team recently after a D1 win.  On 11/23 NAIA D1 St. Xavier defeated Illinois-Chicago 74-73.  IWU defeated the Cougars 81-61 on 11/28. 

Now, before we make too much of the Puget Sound win over UC Riverside, let's realize that Riverside is now 0-8.  Their losses are...

@ Washington St 55-86
@ U. of Portland 74-92
@ USC 48=81
@ San Diego 67-94
vs Eastern Washington 70-85
vs Montana 67-77
vs Puget Sound 111-115

Recently on the Top 25 board I stated that I think IWU fits in in the 150's of the Sagarin rating, near Illinois State...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkt0506.htm

UC Riverside is #328 in the Sagarin with only 6 teams in all of D1 listed below - Liberty, North Florida, N.C. A&T, Morehead St, Morgan St, Savannah St.

Regardless, the PS win over a D1 was big and it sets up a big neutral court game in Santa Barbara.  How stupid is it that according to the NCAA, the #1 IWU vs #5 Puget Sound game is basically a non-factor (not an in-region game)?!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: briefcase on December 23, 2005, 07:05:30 pm
Congrats to the UPS team on beating a D1! However, quite a challenge ahead, can't wait to see another big win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: veterancciwfan on December 25, 2005, 08:59:50 pm
We seldom get to see any NWC teams play in the Midwest. The last one the CCIW fans saw was Lewis & Clark in the 2001 D3 sectional held at U. of Chicago in which 2 CCIW teams, Elmhurst and IWU, participated. Lewis and Clark stayed with the U. of C. (their best team ever) and sort of self-destruced in the 2nd half with terrible shot selection decisions and several unforced tournovers. I know the D3 fans from Illinois were very suprised at the marked difference in the style of play. L&C had a tall blond guard who played with a headband who liked to pop 26-28' jump shots and his coach seemed to encourage it. It was sort a "first guy down the floor with an open shot pulls the trigger" offensive approach. As I recall, L&C had some athletic players on that 2000/2001 team. Could you fill me in on how the current UPS team compares with that 00/01 L&C team (I realize I'm talking 5 years ago).

There is tremendous interest among IL D3 hoops fans over the Dec. 29 matchup. This might be one of the best D3 games in terms of pre-game hype all of the 05/06 season. Unfortunately, due the distance, there will be few IWU fans at Westmont, unlike most road games IWU plays. In the CCIW, IWU routinely draws the biggest road crowd of the year for an opponent, with 50-75% of the fans wearing green. The same scenario plays out for nonconference road games the Titans play. IWU played Wash U. on 12/10/05 in St. Louis where 300 fans typically show up. The attendance was about 1400 with at least 800 IWU fans.

Congratulations on the big UPS win over Riverside. But I agree with Pat: IWU is a better team than Riverside.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on December 26, 2005, 07:45:32 am
Veterncciwfan-

I can give a little here, but some other guys posting will have a lot better idea of how UPS is now....the guard you are referring to is Scott Davis.  He was probably one of the best to ever play in the NW.  I know since I was part of the group that he replaced.  The Coach did give him a green light for almost anything.  He was a 4 time 1st Team selection.  For the others to help me also (havent seen UPS play yet either but real curious), LC had Davis, Oriard, Meitus and Speier that year.  Who do these guys compare to on the UPS squad now? 

Is McVey similar to Oriard or Speier? 
Is Curtiss a player similar to Davis?

But from my experiences past and present, the teams in the west seem to be more uptempo oriented (on the whole).  My experience with the midwest teams are limited but this includes the NAIA teams from the past I have seen.   

Some of the guys who see the games on a regular basis can help us both on this.....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 26, 2005, 04:31:29 pm
UPS will press all 40 minutes. They look to score quickly and probably won't be passing up too many shots.  They will play harder than any team you've ever seen.

Zack McVey will be the strongest and most athletic player on the court.  There are two concerns with him.  First if  he can stay out of foul trouble.  Second, if he can get touches.  When he touches the ball good things happen everytime (62% from the floor).

Chase Curtiss is not flashy, but he makes UPS go.  He does so many things other than score.  He may go 0-20 or 20-20.  Whether they're dropping or not he's their most valuable player in all aspects.  And if the game's on the line and he has the ball IWU is in trouble.

They also have a great supporting cast and talented freshmen.  They are young though, and an experienced composed team that can tolerate the pressure may give them trouble.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 26, 2005, 08:44:49 pm
The battle of the Zach's should be great.  IWU's 6-7/210 junior center Zach Freeman is one of the best big guys in the Midwest.  He has amazing hops, good touch around the hoop, and can knock down the 18 foot jumpshot.  Freeman is averaging 16.1 ppg, 7.6 rpg, and shooting .582 from the field. 

http://www.iwuhoops.com/zf.jpg

http://www.iwuhoops.com/utdz.jpg

http://www.iwuhoops.com/wabz.jpg


Zack McVey is listed at 6-6/215 with numbers that are very close - 14.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, .667 FG%.  This should be a matchup of two really good Division III post players.

IWU is led by two D3hoops.com preseason 1st Team All-Americans, 6-3 senior point-guard #22 Adam Dauksas (13.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 7.6 apg) and 6-6 wing #32 Keelan Amelianovich (18.0 ppg, 5.0 rpg.)  Keelan is one of the best 3-point shooters in the nation...26-49 (.531) so far this year after connecting on 67-147 (.456) as a junior...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/adka.jpg

http://www.iwuhoops.com/illiniad.jpg

http://www.iwuhoops.com/ka.jpg


The heart and soul of IWU's team defensively is the identical twin combo of Chris (#34) and Cory Jones (#42).  6-6, extremely athletic, and very strong.  Cory (a starter) and Chris (the 6th man) are role players who do all of the dirty work, but can also score around the hoop and up to about 15 feet...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/illinich.jpg

http://www.iwuhoops.com/utdcojo.jpg

IWU's starting 2-guard is #20, Jason Fisher - another very strong and athletic player who at 6-2 won the state of Illinois slam dunk contest as a senior at Delavan H.S. over a lot D1/some now NBA guys from the big schools.  Jason is backed up by 6-3 Mike McGraw.  Both are very good 3-point shooters, although Jason is off to a slow start from beyond the arc this season.

http://www.iwuhoops.com/wabjf.jpg

http://www.iwuhoops.com/utdmcg2.jpg

#40, 6-6 Steve Schweer, is another "dirty work" guy.  Comes in to play good defense and rebound...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/illiniss.jpg



That's your IWU scouting report.  This should be a fun game - looking forward to it, and some weather that is much better than this crap!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on December 26, 2005, 08:51:10 pm
And some matchup/stat info on the Tom Byron field...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/PREVIEWS.HTM
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on December 29, 2005, 11:46:52 am
Tonight's IWU v UPS contest will be really interesting.

Over the past four years, opponents of IWU have typically try to slow down the game tempo and play a half-court offense.  UPS fast tempo will be more to the Titans liking than not.  With outstanding ball handlers led by All-American Adam Dauksas and strong big men, I really do not see the UPS press or doubling down under the bucket being a major problem. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: big_al on December 29, 2005, 09:17:54 pm
59-38 IWU at half.

Sounds like the UPS up tempo game is working against them. Wonder how they might change it up, or if they can and still come back. It's thier run and gun style that has allowed them to make many of the comebacks they are known for.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cciwrules on December 29, 2005, 09:25:55 pm
i have been listening to this game on a webcast,and the Illinois Wesleyan announcers said right before halftime that the top 4 teams in the cciw are better than pugent sound
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: big_al on December 29, 2005, 09:43:07 pm
Ya, I heard that comment too.

A pretty Bias and Cocky comment to make when you've only seen a team play for a half.

Sounds like they might take a few of those comments back this second half (or they should)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on December 30, 2005, 02:52:12 pm
UPS scared IWU to death in the second half.  It was a 6 point game with 4 to play.  UPS was up 14 points in the second half until the end when they got desperate.  The announcers talked about how bad UPS was in the first half, and did a 180 in the second half saying how deserving of the #5 ranking UPS was, and "We might see these guys again in March," and "Now we're seeing this team."

It sounded like UPS didn't bring the same intensity in the first half as the second.  They got great games out of their two hacks Curtiss and McVey (despite the usual foul trouble) but that's about it.  McVey had 26-12-3 and 3 blocks.  There is no way he's not an All American at the end of the year.   

It sounds to me like IWU is very good and very experienced.  My impression is that a young UPS team would have to play nearly perfect to knock these guys off.

But remember, come March you don't have to be the best team to win the national championship, you just have to be better than your opponenet 1 night of the year.

I wish UPS could play more games like this! Against ranked teams.  Now I have to fight off boredom for two months as UPS walks its way to another conference championship.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on December 30, 2005, 03:28:08 pm
As an unbiased observer (actually a little biased in UPS' favor), I don't think UPS is among the five best teams in the nation, and they didn't look good at all in the first half.  I don't think it was a question of intensity; it was a question of playing a team that was bigger, stronger, faster, and more poised than the Loggers.  I've see UPS play twice now (also against Behrend at Caltech) and from that admittedly small sample size I'd guess that it's not uncommon that they look better in the 2nd half.  The gameplan seems to be to harass the opponent and tire them out, and take advantage of their relative freshness in the last 10 minutes.  That worked against Behrend, who had none of the advantages that IWU had, and it almost worked against IWU.  I expect it works very well against inferior opponents, perhaps what they face in conference play (going only on reputation, no offense intended.) 

UW-Stout plays a very similar defensive style, and does it better than UPS.  (I saw them play Wooster and St. Thomas, so I have a frame of reference.)  Pluse, Stout's offense is considerably more threatening than UPS'.  So there's one team at least that I think belongs higher in the rankings than the Loggers.

I gained a lot of respect for the UPS coaches when I saw how intense and focused UPS was to start the second half.  They were beaten pretty badly in the first, and looked beaten.  But the coaches got them fired up again, and that was a big factor in getting them back into the game.  Kudos also to the small contingent of UPS fans (smaller than the group at the Caltech tourney--I wonder why?) who were very vocal and helped keep the team's intensity up.

UPS may very well be there in March.  As blackhawsks4 says, they'll probably win their conference with ease.  I'd not be surprised to see them get a first round bye and then draw the winner of a first-round game between Chapman and the SCIAC champ, and that should be an easy win for UPS.  Then they'd get into the mix with the WIAC, MIAC, and maybe CCIW teams.  It would be very interesting to see the Loggers match up with UW-Stout in the tourney.  That would be one frenetic game!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on December 30, 2005, 05:59:50 pm
Hii... I believe this is my first post on this board... despite having recently seen the Loggers defeat PSB in an interesting matchup at Cal Tech.

Greetings from inside the gym affectionately known as the kitchen where I am having a little too much fun with my new Treo650.

In the consolation game today, Whitman defeated Mount Union in York, PA in overtime by a score of 98-90.

The score got to within 2 quickly in the 8-5:35 mark (though Whitman had been ahead by 8ish for most of the second half) ... then Mt Union went up with 2 and change... Whitman quickly took back the lead but the game was tied on a last second shot my Mount Union and the game went into OT. Whitman pulled this one out as they gradually gained a comfortable lead in OT thanks to fts... though they technically really should have won in regulation.

Well... a win is a win :)

I wasn't expecting to be impressed... because all the rest of the nation talks about is Puget Sound, but was pleasently surprised... congrats to the "missionaries" on their win today.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: polek2 on December 31, 2005, 02:13:51 am
Ok so I am a College basketball Junky!  Played D III ball in the midwest yada yada yada.  Anyways I know live in Portland and need to get my fix of hoops.  What team/gym do you recommend watching good quality basketball at?  I just want to enjoy watching good Basketball!  Please help me out, I am starting to get the shivers without my fix!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on December 31, 2005, 07:30:47 pm
Polek2-

You have a lot of options.  DI ball is at Portland State and U. of Portland.  D3 ball with Lewis and Clark in SW Portland and Pacific in Forest Grove (there are a few more within a 30-45 minute driving distance).  NAIA with Concordia, Warner Pac and Cascade.

The D3 teams are pretty decent to watch.  The NAIA guys are in one of the best conferences in D2 NAIA in the nation.  If you want to watch one of the best players, look for Corbon College.  They have a post player leading the nation in scoring.

This is just simple college scene. You also have access to good HS ball with Jesuit and Lake Oswego (again, just to name a few).  LO has one of the top high school recruits in the nation, his name is Love and he is a beast!!!

The D3's play on Friday and Saturday nights, look for when Puget Sound is back in town again. They are one of the best in the nation. Go to nwcsports.com to get more info on their exact schedules........

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: big_al on January 01, 2006, 04:42:56 am
polek2,

If your looking for a great game soon, check out next friday night. UPS is back and they are gonna be getting their biggest home game challenge for the season play (that is if you push under the rug that upset by Warner Pac)

The Bruins who gave the Loggers thier only conference loss last year are coming to town, so if you don't mind the drive, you should wander on up there if you have the time, it's gonna be a good game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 01, 2006, 08:02:53 pm
Very interesting post by david collinge.  I think you're right, UPS should have no problem getting to the sweet 16 (with a first round bye and a win over a sciac).  How are their chances against teams from the midwest?  The last 2 years the loggers have run into the national champ, I'm curious to hear how you think they stack up.  In your opinion, where would UPS place in another conference?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 01, 2006, 08:34:48 pm
The first round bye is not a given; the tournament expansion (to 59 teams) means only 5 teams will get byes.  My guess is that UPS would get a bye for geography reasons, but there's a myriad of scenarios where that doesn't happen. 

As far as how UPS would stack up in other (presumably midwestern) conferences, that'd be just a guessing game.  However, they've played the best breadbasket teams in each of the past three years (UWSP, UWSP, IWU) and are 0-3 in those games.  UPS's style is unlike what most heartland teams encounter, and if nothing else that unfamiliarity could produce wins.  UW-Stout and, to a lesser extent, John Carroll play the same style of defense, so WIAC and OAC teams might be better prepared for the Loggers than teams from the CCIW, NCAC, or MIAA (for example.)  On balance, I think UPS would be at least a top-tier team in any Midwest or Great Lakes conference. 

Midwest: I don't think UPS would win this year's CCIW race, but they'd at least be competitive in the race for second (with the likes of Elmhurst, Augustana, and North Central).  I personally don't think they'd win the WIAC or MIAC, either, since I've seen UW-Stout and St. Thomas and think they're both marginally better than the Loggers.  They'd be in the race in the HCAC with Transylvania, Hanover, and Franklin.  I don't know enough about the MWC this year to comment.  They'd win the NIIC most years, and the LMC and SLIAC every year.

Great Lakes:  I think they'd finish behind Wooster and Wittenberg in the NCAC, and behind Hope, Albion, and perhaps Calvin in the MIAA.  It'd be very interesting to see them in the OAC, which is a rough-and-tumble, "any given Sunday" kind of league.  They could win it, and they could finish 6th.  UPS would win the AMCC (Behrend's conference), and dominate the Presidents AC.

Of the D3 teams I've seen play this season, I'd put UPS behind IWU and Wooster, and about equivalent to UW-Stout and St. Thomas.  I'm going to see Amherst tomorrow.

Happy New Year to all.  I wish I could be in the beautiful northwest with you!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 02, 2006, 09:13:26 pm
David,

I'll begin by acknowledging that I haven't seen any of the teams, but my impression from 'sifting' all the posts is that UPS would almost certainly be outclassed by Lawrence, but would be right in the mix for 2nd in the MWC.

And, of course, there is no guarantee that Lawrence will win the MWC - that's why they play the games!  But that's my take, for whatever it's worth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 02, 2006, 09:53:14 pm
Yspi, I just found out today that Lawrence was in Orange County (I guess I should say they were "in the O.C.," if I want to sound like a true Angelino!  ;)) last week.  I wish I'd known; Costa Mesa isn't the most convenient place to get to from the Valley (like, y'know), but I'd have made the trip to get a look at a top 10 team.  After all, Santa Barbara isn't convenient either, but I made that trip to see #1 play #5!
Title: Big Weekend
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 03, 2006, 12:44:53 pm
Heading into a huge weekend in conference play...

GFox @ UPS:  Two teams split last year, with the home team winning both games. Should be interesting to see where the NWC lines up with UPS...they've been impressive, but have shown that they are beatable (WARNER PAC, and Ill-Wes) although both losses came against good teams...

Willamette @ Whitworth:  Great rivalry of late, with Whit getting the sweep last year.  Big early home game for pirates, as they already have one conference loss, and probabably would be fighting an uphill battle if they get their second this early

Willamette @ Whitman:  Whitman is a dangerous team...nice size, and they have some guards who can play (Ricker and Elliot)...although I'm sure there won't be a crowd (unless something has changed since my days in the nwc), its a tough place to play...

Bearcats have looked good in spurts this year, and with John Olinger and Stuvland shooting the way they have, look capable of being a contender all year...looking at the region records, they're currently 5-0 in the West...

Contrary to the blackhawks claim, looks like the race should be fun to watch all year long...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on January 04, 2006, 04:38:07 am
Good post Bearcats, it's nice to see someone posting about the goings-on in the league at this point. I think there has been a little too much talk about UPS and not enough about the rest of the league. The Fox-UPS game should be a great one though. It will be interesting to see if the Fox guards can get hot from outside. If they do, and Szalay and Parker can rebound the ball, then I think they can pull the upset. That's a big "if" though, especially in Tacoma.  Also, if the bearcats can sweep the Washington trip, that would be big and it would set up 2 HUGE games at home vs. UPS and Fox on the 20th and 21st. Should be fun to watch!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 04, 2006, 06:05:40 pm
I said it all last year and now all this year, there is no race for first in the NWC.  Willamette and Fox each have a shot on the road and thats it.  Fox scares me a little.  There is the conference tourney this year though so at least that will make things exciting for the other mediocre teams.  Its a race between Fox, Willamette and Whitworth for the other 2 spots.  I'd expect fox to go 12-4 and willamette 10-6 and whitworth and L/C 9-7.

The only thing more pathetic than the UPS first half last night against PLU was PLU.  Are they still rebuilding?  If they can't beat Pacific or Linfield I don't know if they'll get one in the NWC.

Zack McVey shot 10-12 last night for 30.  Something good happens everytime he touches the ball.  He caught a one handed alley oop off the inbounds play and dunked on 3 Lutes.  Jason Foster and Taylor Marsh looked good as well.

Hate to see Whitworth lose 2 to SCIAC teams.

Willamette looks like they've played some competition this year (just based off school reputations), and its always a tough place to play
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: fosheezie on January 04, 2006, 11:18:37 pm
Hey just a shout out to Coach Jason Lowery at Pacific.  Having already gotten more wins than last year's total, here's to the team getting some wins in a tough conference!  Go Frankenberry!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 06, 2006, 11:55:17 pm
halftime with ups-fox 50-45 ups.  wow fox guards look good handling the pressure  especially #24, and not hesitating on 3s. and their bigs are on the o boards. they look very good.  antwon williams had a huge 1st half for ups, I'm guessing 17..   schmick looks really cute putting 3 fingers up after every 3 and flopping all over the court. talk about a player thinking he's better than he is. game could easily go either way.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 07, 2006, 01:14:20 am
loggers beat a GOOD fox team tonight.  mcvey is sooo dominating, and curtiss always seems to come up with the big play.  nobody could stay with antwan williams, he got into the paint whenever he wanted.  good to see the freshmen step up in the big game, and act like he's made big plays before.  It's easy to perform well in first half, no pressure.  would have been better game had "superstar" shown up in second half.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 07, 2006, 01:16:13 am
Yspi, I just found out today that Lawrence was in Orange County (I guess I should say they were "in the O.C.," if I want to sound like a true Angelino!  ;)) last week.  I wish I'd known; Costa Mesa isn't the most convenient place to get to from the Valley (like, y'know), but I'd have made the trip to get a look at a top 10 team.  After all, Santa Barbara isn't convenient either, but I made that trip to see #1 play #5!

Sorry to note this post so belatedly.

At the risk of messing you up with your NEW homeboys, you'll always be an Ohio-based Wolverine to me! ;D

I hope you'll vote on the Posters' Poll - you may note that you were ONE of the reasons I didn't go with the regional-based voting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 07, 2006, 01:42:06 am
I hope you'll vote on the Posters' Poll - you may note that you were ONE of the reasons I didn't go with the regional-based voting.

Maybe you should reconsider the regional voting, then, because I'm going to take a pass on the poster's poll.  Thanks anyway.

Congrats to UPS on getting off on the right NWC foot tonight.
Title: Conf. Weekend
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 09, 2006, 02:33:20 pm
UPS handles Fox, and Whitworth it looks like took the woodshed to Willamette in the second half...although Bearcats (from what radio said) were very good in the 2nd half saturday, pulling out a win they had to have...

Whitman sounds much improved, and could be a contender for that 3rd spot...

Another big weekend this week:

Whitworth @ UPS:  Don't know if Whitworth has enough ball handlers to beat Loggers in Tacoma, although Pecht, Tucker, and Hasenfus are a formidable frontline that can bang with McVey...Williams probably needs to bring an oxygen tank with him for that game

Whitman @ UPS: A lot will be said for Whitman if they can hold their own in that game

Fox and Willamette both appear to have winnable games (Pacific and Linfield for WU, with LC and Linfield for Fox), so they should (notice the word SHOULD) be 5-1 in league after this weekend...I will say that Lowery has the boxers playing great d, and they are always tough at home, no matter the record

Early POY candidate: Olinger, WU-league's leading scorer, and is ranked, according to the WU site, in a lot of categories statistically. (Calm down BHawk, everyone is keenly aware that McVey and Curtiss are also POY candidates)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on January 14, 2006, 04:37:04 am
Quick observations:

Whitworth has shown, especially after friday's game, that they are a strong #2 in the league and most games between them and UPS would be a toss-up.

GFU is really struggling and will have to get hot if they want a chance at the third seed.

Most teams (PLU the exception) are all matched somewhat evenly as far as talent goes, giving anyone a chance for an upset on any given night.

Player of the year looks like a battle between Curtiss, McVey, Pecht, and Olinger at this point, with the slight edge going to McVey.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 14, 2006, 11:32:12 pm
"Whitworth has shown, especially after friday's game, that they are a strong #2 in the league and most games between them and UPS would be a toss-up."   

"Most teams (PLU the exception) are all matched somewhat evenly as far as talent goes, giving anyone a chance for an upset on any given night."

Hmmmmmm...  Spoke too soon. 

Whitworth is a decent team and I expect them to join Fox in the playoffs, but a game between them and UPS a tossup? Granted UPS hasn't been playing its best lately, but they're still winning!  The Loggers would beat Whitworth 9 times out of 10, and have won the last five matchups.  Whitworth does put a solid five or six out there but after that they drop off.  Pecht is a good player, but not a conference MVP, I'd take 2 players on his team over him. 

Whitman is improved, and Matt Kelly is definitely a 1st teamer.

Chase Curtiss for MVP


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on January 15, 2006, 10:19:42 am
Wow, I'm just stunned at this point.  The only thing I can say would be that Whitworth is a team that plays to the level of the competition. Also, I guess I discounted PLU a little bit.  This does, however, back up my theory that anyone can beat anyone in this league on any given night.  I still have to dissagree with you about how UPS would win 9 or 10 times.  They are deeper, as you stated, but Whitworths top five is more talented then UPS' . Talent, however, does not necessarily win you games and UPS just plays better team ball.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 15, 2006, 05:03:06 pm
Himjay you're just diggin yourself a bigger ditch!  Nobody on this board will agree with you that Whitworths top five is more talented than UPS!!! As I've said time and time again McVey and Curtiss are far and away the two best players in the league. 

McVey or Pecht...McVey

Curtiss or take your pick...Curtiss

Taylor Marsh or Young...both strictly shooters but Marsh has more 3's at about the same percentage.  He also plays 15 less minutes per game!! Marsh doesn't even startand he's more effective than Young!

Antwon Williams is a leader in nearly every statistical conference category (11.8 ppg, 55% from the floor, 3.3 assists, 89% ft, 1.8 stls, 54% from 3, 3.3 assists and 1.1 to/ ast ratio)  Brian Williams avg's 2 more assists and his ratio is .7 better but where is he in every other statistical category??  Statistically this is a no brainer!  And I'm a Brian Williams fan, I think he's a good player.   But I'd take Antwon any day, not to mention the fact that he sliced Brian Williams up in Tacoma, getting into the paint at will while Brian played very poorly in the first half.

Pecht (at the 4) would be the only player who has a chance to start at UPS!!

The game in Spokane will be interesting. Always a long tough road trip.

My all conference team right now is
curtiss mvp
mcvey
kelley wmn
olinger will
pecht  ww
schmick fox

Watch for Williams and Foster for UPS, both talented freshmen starters. 

Any other freshmen contributors to watch for? 

Watch out for willamette, 5-1, nobodys really talkin about them.  UPS plays there this weekend, could be UPS's toughest game of year in toughest place to play in league. 

Who's seen them play (wu) and how are they???

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on January 15, 2006, 06:27:55 pm
I'm going to agree to disagree. Other freshman standouts include David Berggren at LC (14 ppg), Josh Dressler at PLU (14 ppg, 18 ppg in league) and Chris Faidley at Whitman (10 ppg).  Willamette is a typical bearcat team this year. They have aggressive, fundamentel players that all run james' offense well. They have a few big bodies with Mansfield, Luchterhand, and Garrelts who can crash the boards and finish around the rim. They are not very athletic though, and they don't have a lot of quickness.
Title: Salem Showdown
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 17, 2006, 12:48:59 pm
Big game in Salem Friday night, with the #1 Loggers and #2 Bearcats squaring off...

Couple of questions entering game:

1. Willamette's system vs. UPS' system...half court execution vs. up tempo...James vs. Bridgeland...exciting to see which team can force the other to play at their speed...no one has been able to slow UPS down all year (with the exception of maybe IWU)
2. Olinger vs. Curtiss...two POY candidates, who are the keys to both their teams
3. With UPS style of play, which team will be able to capitalize at the FT line?

4. How can Willamette compete, what with a UPS team that apparently should just scrimmage itself...maybe the only hope for the 'Cats lies in their "drawbridge style hoops"...perhaps Blackhawks can enlighten us on these particular points...

(Williams vs. Williams debate was interesting...must remember BW is the SOLE ball handler for his team, and is asked to play a distributor's role...AW shares duties in the Loggers system, and has much more freedom to score...AW has only 3 fewer turnovers than BW, despite the fact BW leads the league in minutes and is charge of their offense) Marsh vs. Young is interesting in that in UPS system, Marsh gets quite a few more OPEN looks than Young (hence the higher percentage) but Young, despite being the obvious shooter on that squad, still has made 47 to 42 threes, and hitting 42%...much harder to get off and make three's in a half court set than in transition when you're open...All these players are very good, and the argument itself seems a bit silly, as each fanbase SHOULD take their own player...)

Willamette seems to be playing well right now, and if they have any title hopes, have to beat the Loggers in Salem...looking forward to a week of talk on the board...

 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on January 17, 2006, 01:52:32 pm
Big game on Saturday in Salem...and I miss the game by one crappy day coming home from overseas....anyone that sees the game, would love to know your thoughts.  My first game will be LC vs Willamette on Tuesday....which should be no contest for the bearcats (really kills me considering they didnt have a chance 7 years ago....hahahaha).  Jon O is a hella of player...cant wait to see him in action personally..........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 18, 2006, 12:22:34 am
Gladly Bearcats,

First of all, good post on ww vs. ups players, and I didn't even mention Delong at pg for UPS averaging 4 assists per game.

On to Salem, Willamette is not going to try to slow UPS down.  They'll play at UPS's speed and try to capitalize on easy layups after breaking the press. In the half court they'll spread the court and try take advantage of UPS overcommiting.  You're not going to see a slow paced game. 

And Bearcats you are EXACTLY right.  You're only hope lies in your drawbridge style hoops!!!  And Coach James seeming to have the officials wrapped around his finger over there (not that he shouldn't, i agree, he's a good coach who gets the most out of his teams).  But I mean honestly, you've only lost by a combined 54 points in 2 years in Tacoma!

Would have been nice to see Curtiss, with a combined 61 points get the Player of the Week last week.  But I guess it just sets the stage for Olinger vs. Curtiss right???  I've never seen Olinger play so I'm interested to see if he'll live up to this POTY hype.

UPS scrimmaging itself...not a bad idea.  Really? 30-2 past two years.  What 46-2, 45-3, at the worst 44-4 in 3 years  Including this one, 3 straight conference titles. 

I hope this board fires some of your guys up, I'm thinking of making the trip and wanna see WU bring their best shot. Let's see what UPS has got huh?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 18, 2006, 11:08:15 am
If you're referring to this season, combined with the last two, then UPS IS an amazing 36-2...however, if you're "past three years" comment includes the two titles and the year prior, then you're back down to 37-11, because I'd imagine that 7-9 campaign was nothing to write home about...

The Bearcats have been blown out in Tacoma (looking at the archives, they were ugly losses)...but the Loggers lost in Salem to the Bearcats in '04 didn't they? One of those "2" losses was to the Drawbridgers...

Olinger has been snubbed himself in the POTW this season, his time was past due when he got the award this week...

I do agree, however, when you say the tempo will not be slow...from their scores, it seems the Loggers are too good a team to give up their pace to opponents...

It'd be nice if there were some other posters from the two schools on here, aside from Bhawks and myself, who are just a couple of old (well, in my case, old) players stuck in the stands...Hope you can get down BHawks, it will hopefully be a good crowd and atmosphere (my experience at the WU-PLU game in Salem was okay, not great)...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on January 18, 2006, 11:49:58 am
As Bhawks points out, its basically impossible for another team to slow down the pace of a UPS game.  Even if the UPS press is broken, teams are almost obligated to take advantage of numbers and put up a quick shot (although I think the Loggers love to have teams pull up for floaters or out-of-control lay-ups that aren’t nearly as high percentage shots as they might seem).  Also, UPS' high pressure half court defense and habit of racing the ball up court regardless of a miss or make on the defensive end doesn’t allow for any lull in the action. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: andrewf on January 18, 2006, 04:20:09 pm
On the contrary, I believe it is very possible to slow down UPS's gameplan, all it takes is a team that is dedicated to keeping it slow from start to finish.  An example of this was last season when George Fox beat UPS in Newberg: 66-64 I believe it was.

They did it by keeping it slow and not allowing UPS to ever truly get in a rhythym.  Obviously not the norm, but a possibility for a dedicated team to do.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on January 18, 2006, 05:33:57 pm
Andrew, thats actually a good case-study.  Executing a slow down game against UPS requires an extremely well-coached team of veteran players (see last year's Fox squad).   However, I wonder whether a team like that exists in the NWC this year.  If the Loggers lose in conference this season, I think its more likely that it will be because someone beats them at their own game.  Whitworth's second half run in Tacoma was spurred by pressing the Loggers and forcing the action.  The question remains:  Is there a team in the NWC that is deep enough to do this against UPS for nearly 40 mins and still have the legs to knock down big shots at the end of the game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 18, 2006, 06:59:11 pm
My first time here and I will add nothing...well, maybe ancient history. But if the football board is dominated by LINFIELD people because they are on top the it is only right and fitting I, being a LINFIELD person, should come on here when the team I wish to back is luke/luster; a combo of lukewarm and lackluster. In fact, maybe my fictitious character will be Luke Luster.

It is sickening for me to look at the national rankings and there is no mention of LINFIELD.
I look at the names bantered around in the NW and I still laugh at George Fox and Whitman. Why? Because it was once a LINFIELD tradition to beat these teams 111-60.  Pacific? By 20. Willamette and Lewis and Clark? Depending on the gym, 5-10. Concordia, Warner Pacific, and Cascade? Intramurals would have run them out.
UPS? Well, that was considered a big school and not many LINFIELD teams would have beaten them but would have died trying.
NWC conference championships back to back to back for a decade.
NAIA tournaments all the time (without 1 win however).
Now I have to sit back and admire you successful programs.

How many of the winning programs average 80 to 90 points?
Are there die-hard defense teams that steal and run?

Just wondering. I’ve got nothing to cheer about.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 18, 2006, 07:44:55 pm
Allright, bearcats, give me your prediction...With UPS not playing its best ball as of late, and Willamette apparently playing well, this is their chance!  Otherwise if UPS goes to  8-0 this weekend this "race" is over before UPS even makes the spokane trip or goes to fox.

DenSLA I sympathize with you, and for a school with your facilities, history, reputation, etc., your program should always be atop the standings.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 19, 2006, 11:29:32 am
DensLa, you must be referring to the glory days of the late 70s for Wildcat hoops, because since then, there's been all of 2 outright Linfield titles the last 25+ years...Monsters in football, this version of hoops is more "mildcat" than anything else (although, from last Tuesday's score, they still own George Fox)...

BHawks: I've got to go with the Bearcats (what kind of fan would I be if I didn't) and say for them to win, its got to be in the low 80s, so I'll say 84-80 Willamette...In the two games I've seen (LC and PLU), I was impressed with Willamette's total number of capable guards...you need depth to play in a game like the one UPS will force friday, and I think they have it.  I will say that it is probably important for them to contain either Curtiss or McVey, as both having monster nights would be tough to overcome. Now, before you go with your "YOU CAN'T STOP THEM, THEY'RE BLAH BLAH" I mean one has to be under 15 points or so. If they're both over 20, and if the game is in the 100s, that definately favors UPS...

I agree, though (as I've said before) if Willamette can't win in Salem, then the race is probably over...and we'll have to wait for the NWC tourney for another lively board discussion...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 19, 2006, 06:04:16 pm
I'm with you, the game will be low scoring.  I say UPS 83-72.

Two keys to the game:
1.  Willamette's ability to get layups and easy buckets after beating the presss. 
2.  UPS has to shoot a decent percentage from the floor.  If they shoot the ball well from 3, they're tough.

I have no worries about WU stopping McVey and Curtiss I just worry about them stopping themselves.  Curtiss will have a good game whether he's on fire or 1-20, he does so many things.  McVey needs to get enough touches.  And both of them need to stay out of foul trouble, which rarely happens.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on January 20, 2006, 12:44:46 am
It does look like Willamette is going to be UPS' toughest test in the NWC this season, but I don't see them losing this game. Curtiss is always going to get his points and his boards, even if he goes 1-20, just as blackhawks4 said. And the only time McVey gets stopped is when he gets himself into foul trouble. But what really makes me think that this team can be something special is how the freshman continue to get better every game, namely Williams, Foster, Pinkney and Krauel. With the schedule that Bridgeland set up to start the season (2 DIs, 2 or 3 DIIs, an NAIA, and the preseason DIII #1) these guys have already been through more than most freshman can hope to face in a year. And the fact that Williams is even being legitimately argued as the best point in the NWC as a Freshman should tell us something about the job Bridgeland has done recruiting and coaching. And Pinkney and Foster give UPS options when McVey is on the bench.

As long as UPS plays its game, nobody in the NWC can beat them, and it seems that Willamette is the only team that might be able to play with them. We'll see this weekend...
Title: Showdown in Salem
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 20, 2006, 12:22:22 pm
Good to hear from some new people....

Now, ds0097, while I'll grant you that the simple fact UPS has dominated the way it has the past two years cements Bridgelands ability to recruit, let's not get carried away with ourselves...if Bhawks and myself are suddenly "legitimate" sources for who's deciding the best point in the NWC, we've got problems...if I suddenly throughout a case for willamette freshman david fife as the "best wing in the league", and Bhawks came back with the expected, "you're crazy", would that be a "legitimate argument" for fife as well? Doubtful...and most freshman who play early tend to have a steep learning curve...this is not a phenonmenon limited to UPS, as Fife, Pacific's Bartlett, Linfield's Baber, and PLU's guards have all had big games this season according to their websites...

Finally, I'm sure Willamette would welcome a 1-20 game from Curtiss (and how exactly is he "getting his points" when he misses 19 of 20 shots?)  I believe Bhawks was arguing that even if Curtiss does shoot that poorly on the drawbridges (which I doubt he will), the OTHER THINGS he does (rebounds, steals, etc.) would allow UPS to remain competitive in the game...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on January 20, 2006, 01:58:04 pm
Best PG in the league or not, Williams has done an admirable job filling the void left by Cross.  Without him, the Loggers would arguably be without a pure point guard (although I'm sure you could make an argument for Delong).  While McVey and Curtis make UPS go, they are at their best when Williams is on the floor.

Question for BHawks:

Although Cross is the biggest name missing from last year's squad, I thought early in the year that the Loggers might actually miss O'Donnel and Shelton more.  Whats your take on how Foster and Pinkney are filling their shoes? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 20, 2006, 09:44:49 pm
if anybody can give midgame updates lets hear 'em.  im not quite as confident as the others...although im predicting a logger win, they're gonna have their hands full
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 21, 2006, 07:25:02 pm
Congrats bearcatsfan3, big win for your guys.  This is the third straight season UPS has lost to the second place team at their place.  Very, very tough to run the league.  Remember too, Loggers still go to Fox and have the Spokane trip.

Granted I picked a Logger win, but other than that I was on the money.  UPS shoots 33% from the field in the first half.  They shoot 8% from three for the game.  Curtiss has 17, 7, and 3, but shoots 4-18 on the "drawbridges."  Now I'm sure WU's "d" was good, but it wasn't THAT good!  Tough place to play. 

Meanwhile, WU shoots 61% from the floor, gotta think they got layins and easy buckets all night. 

McVey also fouls out and Curtiss has 4, I'd imagine they sat out some due to foul trouble.

I've heard from some that the officiating was somewhat one-sided, which is to be expected (the same way it may very well be in tac except for the loggers), but would be interested to hear bearcats fan3's perspective.  I'm sure my sources are somewhat biased. 

How was the pace of the game??  Who looked good? Was UPS missing easy ones or was it Bearcat "d?"  Fill me in!

Watch out for Fox tonight WU, very possible they could lose what they gained tonight.  UPS is still up a game despite records being the same.  Willamette slipped once (loss to ww) while loggers havent (loss to wu, tied for 1st).  And if Loggers can't beat WU at home, hard to make argument for them as best in league if lose twice to same team. Both teams still control their own fate however.
Title: Big WU Weekend
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 23, 2006, 11:07:15 am
I'd say the game, as far as intensity level, atmosphere, etc. certainly lived up to what I was expecting as a fan...big, enthusiastic crowd, two very good teams going toe-to-toe...

The difference in the game was Willamette's ability to control the tempo, keeping UPS from getting out in the open floor for easy baskets and open 3's...the Bearcats were very good at taking the layups that were there, but also, especially in the middle part of the game were able to stay spread in the half court and make UPS guard for an extended period of time...Willamette lead the entire game, by as much as 18, and then withstood a couple of Logger rallies (UPS is too good not to come back)...

I thought, as we stated during the week, that WU has enough quality guards to handle that type of pressure (Olinger, Erickson, Miller, Stuvland and Fife) all played very well, and did have a hand in holding UPS down offensively (I will say the Drawbridges played a role, but that's what Homecourt is all about)...

As for officiating, I don't think it was lopsided in either way...as much as the technical on Bridgeland hurt UPS in the 2nd half, I'd say there were at least 3 calls against Willamette that caused huge uproars in the stands...the style of play was physical and fast, and referees are going to miss some things...part of the game...

As far as ramification, WU followed with a tough, grind out win over GFox, and UPS battled Linfield for a closer than expected win...WU is, based on head to head, in first, with UPS a #1B at this point...I think Bhawks is right in saying UPS is maybe sitting a little easier, knowing their one loss is on the road to the other contender, but I don't necessarily think WU's loss at whitworth was a surprise...it is always tough in spokane, and Whitworth is much better in the "dome"...that being said, I think both teams have tough tests before their rematch with one another...UPS at Fox and at Whitworth/Whitman (the bourne kid appears to be playing very well in the stats column) and WU still has LC on a short break Tuesday in Salem and then hosts Whitworth/Whitman...

Long way to go, but with WU's win, at least we know Bhawks won't be able to hibernate through January and February...
Title: Willamette Rolls On
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 25, 2006, 10:46:17 am
Watched last night's WU/LC game...Stuvland for Willamette was 7-13 from 3, finished with 36 points, and carried the team to a 10 point win...The Bearcats are now 1/2 game ahead of UPS in the standings, and have won 6 in a row.

@PLU this Saturday, with a HUGE homestand against Whitworth/Whitman coming next Friday/Saturday...

In the meantime, now that we're half way through the conference season, I thought now would be a good time for some midseason awards:

1/2 way All-NWC:

Olinger-WU
Curtiss-UPS
McVey-UPS
Born-Whitman
Pecht-Whitworth
(if WU wins league, then I would bump Stuvland up, and drop one of the others to second team)

(2nd)
Stuvland-WU
Kelly-Whitman
Tillery-LC
Young-Whitworth
Schmick-GF
(notice the lack of big men on this 2nd team...guards have just played better, based on the stats)

COY
1. James-WU
2. Bridgeland-UPS (James gets the nod based on the win last Friday)
3. Molitor-Whitman (they're in the race for 3rd, and when was the last time you could say that?)

Let the debates begin!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 25, 2006, 02:48:31 pm
I already posted my midseason awards, but since this board is pretty much just me talkin to you, lets see...

COTY:  As of now I agree with you, Coach James always seems to overachieve.  If WU wins league, gotta go with James.  However, if UPS wins league it has to go to Bridgeland.  You gotta figure the winning team at worst finishes 13-3.  If that's UPS, they're 43-5 in NWC action in 3 years (3 titles).  If that doen't merit COTY, what does???? 
This is a two person race.  I agree Molitor is third but he shouldn't even be considered.  First, they're only .500 in league, despite the fact that they are VERY dangerous and much improved.  However, I have a serious problem with rewarding teams and individuals that underachieve in the past, have one good year, and then are given awards, especially when they don't win league.

POTY I annoyingly post McVey and Curtiss for MVP often, but here's why.  If UPS gets 1st, I think its goes to Curtiss.  Curtiss brings all the intangibles.  Not only does he produce on a nightly basis, but his leadership and ability to come through in the clutch separates him.  And nobody plays harder than him (true...he's no saint).  He's the guy for UPS.

I know I'm biased here but if WU wins title, I say McVey!!  I don't think anyone has it tougher than him.  UPS plays 4 out 1 in so he constantly has the baseline official waiting and hoping to make a call.  He gets flopped on all the time and deals with horrible calls.  His numbers aren't huge, but they're good enough, especially considering he's out half the game.   He's double teamed nearly every night, and is still the biggest low post presence in the league.  I understand Olinger as strong candidate (especially if WU wins), but no team prepares for Olinger like they do McVey.  But if WU wins I won't be going crazy because I do think the MVP should go to a player on the 1st place team, unless someone else is far and away more dominating.

1st team From what I saw, Kelly (wmn) is much better than Born.  Although it is hard to argue with 20 and 13 (wow)!!!!!

mcvey , curtiss, olinger - locks

stuvland (with wu success), born, kelly, schmick, pecht - go for last spots...i say born (#'s and being post helps), stuvland and pecht (ww 3rd or 4th)

A lot depends on final records too. It seems teams with better records get their guys on despite talent and numbers.

2nd team  whoever above that doesnt make 1st, szalay, young, somebody from lc i say wells-dangerous, and what about williams from UPS.  Comeon give the frosh some love.  I hear credible sources on this board have brought his name up as best pg in league.

Hey Willamette give us one!  You know who's gonna get ya... is Whitman at your place!  They're gonna be overlooked and they're big and have kelly at the wing.  I don't know if you want a half court gamne with them. You'll get ww at your place after what happened to you there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 25, 2006, 04:40:01 pm
I already posted my midseason awards, but since this board is pretty much just me talkin to you, lets see...

That may be true, but there are others of us out here lurking, interested in what you have to say but with nothing to contribute.  :)

COTY:  As of now I agree with you, Coach James always seems to overachieve.  If WU wins league, gotta go with James.  However, if UPS wins league it has to go to Bridgeland.  You gotta figure the winning team at worst finishes 13-3.  If that's UPS, they're 43-5 in NWC action in 3 years (3 titles).  If that doen't merit COTY, what does???? 

Does the 'T' in 'COTY' stand for 'Three?'  If not, then I don't see what UPS' record the prior two seasons has to do with who is THIS season's best coach.
Title: Back and Forth
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 26, 2006, 11:49:22 am
BHawks:

Agree with you to some extent on the people having great year's and tanking the rest of the time, but that's why the awards are handed out on a YEARLY basis...it's a "What have you done for me lately" type deal, so this season is all that matters...that being said, if Whitman doesn't get into the NWC tourney, then you have to go with one of the top 3 teams coaches...

As for the "McVey even if WU wins the league", I think you're points for him in actuality HURT his case...if he is so far and away above the other posts in the league (and I do agree he is the best big in the league) there is no reason for him to be in foul trouble, as the inferior players should not have the ability to put him in jeopardy of having to committ fouls.  I doubt officials are getting 4 calls against him wrong every single time he's in foul trouble (a flop here and there I can see, but 4 per game is just conspiracy theory)...add the fact that he (according to articles from the games) was in foul trouble against IWU and Warner Pac lends me to believe he is foul prone (or you could argue the system UPS plays lends itself to putting its own players in foul jeopardy, sort of a double edge sword argument)...also, if the 4 out 1 in puts him in the officials wrath, it also helps him in that I would think teams can RARELY double him, considering how highly people talk of UPS ability to shoot the 3 with the other 4 guys, or the fact that they are always in an up tempo game, where McVey is probably hard to find...plus, the officiating situation hasn't effected Curtiss and his numbers, so why should it effect McVey?? From the game I saw, both are very good players, but neither is so dominant that they can win POY without a conference title (and neither can Olinger)...

Moving on, I also am very worried about Willamette's homestand next week (I expect a win at PLU, despite their upset of Whitworth earlier in the year)...Beating Whitworth will be a task in and of itself, and to have a quality Whitman team come in right afterward is daunting...I also am curious as to what you or anyone else thinks the postseason chances for UPS/WU/Whitworth are? I've read on this site that the tournament has expanded and there something like 18 at large berth's available? Would the NWC get one of these??

As always, good to talk to you BHawks, and we welcome anyone else...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on January 26, 2006, 01:55:11 pm
Bearcats, you seem to be adamant that the POY will come from the conference champion.  However, we have seen as recently as last year that a runner-up can sport the POY (Gayman).  Does this mean that you consider Gayman more dominant in his senior year than McVey is now?  Obviously, you could make a case with numbers, but I have to side with BHawk's argument that McVey's presence and a slight consideration of UPS' style of play overrides any statistical differential.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 26, 2006, 02:14:58 pm
My point is that I do not believe any of the three candidates this year are so dominant that they can win POY without a team title...I would have argued the same thing about Gayman last year if I was on this board...his numbers look good, but they didn't win the championship, so I would have said the numbers weren't enough to warrant the award...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 26, 2006, 03:11:09 pm
I have a hard time separating winning and COTY.  A coach keeps his job by winning  games; therefore whoever wins should be COTY!!!  I understand the team that loses their star early and goes on to finish 11-5, or the team with no talent and the new coach who goes 9-7.  I understand those case for COTY.  There's none of those this year or last year.  What I don't understand is how Bridgeland goes 15-1 last year and a top ten national ranking and doesn't get COTY!  It goes to the coach of the second place team who is consistently in the bottom half of the standings but has one decent year and finishes 2nd!!!  Come'on.  James has done an incredible job this year but he and the other coaches (other than Lowry) are at no more of a disadvantage than Bridgeland, and he wins consistently while others don't.  All the coaches (except Lowry) have been at their schools (bridgeland might actually be the most recent before Lowry?), they can all recruit, and they can all play however they want.  This year COTY needs to go to the coach that wins the most games.  Enough of this...anyways.

McVey's in foul trouble all the time because he's a hack.  He's the king of cheap fouls (i.e. an over the back, or moving a hip instead of freezing with his hand up).  That said, the 4 out 1 in doesn't help, and he does get very tough calls on a nightly basis.  He DOES get doubled nearly every game.  Teams come from the weak side and try to rotate if he kicks it out.  I think McVey is dominating enough to get POTY if his team doesn't win it but I realize his numbers need to improve.

Careful Bearcatsfan3 when talking about PLU...You saw what happended to Himjay, and I haven't seen him backm since!

My personal opinion is the NWC has no chance of getting an at large bid if UPS wins conference tournament, regardless of who wins league.  If UPS wins conference and loses in conference tourney, UPS has a very, very small chance at an at large bid.  That's my opinion and I'm sure you'll hear differently from somebody, but I would be surprised.

Who you got in the conference tourney?  Are you implying wu/ww/ups?  I have little faith in whitman making the conference tourney but they are scary as hell and can beat anybody any night. I say gfu @ wu, winner goes to ups. 


 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on January 26, 2006, 10:41:08 pm
To add my two cents on McVey, he is definitely prone to picking up cheap fouls on the defensive end. On the offensive end defenders are able to get one or two charges called against him a game that would make vlade Divac and Dennis Rodman proud. For one of the top players in the NWC he gets about the same amount of respect from refs that most freshmen do...

As far as the NCAA tourney goes, it would take another NWC teamed to get ranked in the top 15 for there to be even a slim chance that two teams make it from the NWC. Even then this seams very unlikely because nobody outside of the northwest really knows the teams, and UPS hasn't done enough in the tourney to establish a rep for the league nationwide. Whether this is fair or not (drawing the back-to-back champs each year in the sectionals isn't the easiest way to advance very far), it is the reality so an NWC team is going to have to make it to the Final Four to change it. Regardless of all this, no other NWC team really even has a chance to get ranked this year
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on January 27, 2006, 12:21:23 am
Blackhawks--- I have to disagree about the COTY in a sense.  I agree that teams that are winning those coaches should be the one considered first and foremost.  But in regards to way this season is turning out...Gordie James has to be well ahead of Bridgeland.  UPS was suppose to be hands down favorite and are having a bit of difficulty.  I think if WU finishes within a game of UPS (or happens to win it) then James will be given COTY.  Bridgeland is doing a wonderful job and should be duly recognized, but Gordie has the guys playing at a level higher than they maybe should be. Molitor deserves recognition, but no coach who finishes .500 in a league should ever get it, unless he is using 7th graders.

POY-----this will come down to McVey and Curtiss, however, if WU is able to win the league, Olinger may steal it away. I personally think McVey should get it based on stats and consistant performance. Although I havent seen them play, McVey seems like the steady hand for UPS and that may come into play during voting. Even though Curtiss is deserving as well he may miss a crucial vote from a coach he played bad against......

I havent bee around to see alot of NWC action, but have followed as best as possible over the past years, and this seems to be one of the best races in a few years time.  Looking forward to a good finish........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 27, 2006, 01:46:14 am
Piofan-

Is it Bridgeland's fault that he recruits better players??  Should he be penalized because year after year he reloads with talent??  Is it his fault that his system is dominating the league? 

Bridgeland has turned the UPS program from subpar to dominating the NWC.  He has earned the expectations that come along with the being the best in the conference. And Bridgeland should be penalized because someone who isn't doing what he is to prepare his team in the offseason can overachieve and finish second this year??

Its no coincidence that UPS is loaded with talent year after year. It's no coincidence that their system has gotten better the past few years. 

Why hasn't Willamette won the title the past two years? Or Linfield or Whitworth?  What does Bridgeland have at UPS that's so much better than those places.  Here's an idea...have James go out and get better players.  That way he won't have to hope he can make them "play at a level higher than they maybe should be (as you say)." But don't penalize Bridgeland because he has put his program in a better position to succeed in the offseason than the others!

Don't penalize Bridgeland because he outworks the rest of the coaches in the league...maybe combined.  UPS is a "hands down favorite" because of what he's done to get them there. 

Your argument is ridiculous.

Molitor recognition??? Right...let's see: 2-12, 4-12, 7-9, 8-10, 3-13, 4-12, 6-10, 4-12, 3-13, 3-13. NWC records since he took over.  But it's Coach of the "Year!"  I forgot.  Let's see if he can have a winning season first.  Heck let's go for 8-8, and hey why not??  I'm with it.  Coach of the Year.

Spare me.

UPS having difficulty??? Yeah the Loggers haven't been at the top of their game; but as far as I know, especially in the NWC league play,  a win is a win.  And last I checked UPS was 7-1, with their one loss to the other best team in the league, on the road, in the toughest gym in the conference.

Not taking away anything from James or the Willamette players who I think most would agree are overachieving.  They've had a hell of a year and having me second guessing myself!  WU has a serious shot at a title.  Hope this doesn't jinx you guys. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on January 27, 2006, 11:17:24 am
Blackhawk-

First and foremost......I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT BRIDGELAND......my point is that a coach that does "better than he was suppose to" a lot of the times wins the award for THAT season.  Bridgeland is the best OVERALL coach in the league. But recruiting doesnt win you COTY.

The only reason I mentioned Skip Molitor, was because the last time he had a chance of making the conference tournament was in 94-95.  I also heard his team is so-so group of guys.  No way this guy can win any award....just saying he has done a good job this year. NEVER said he should be COTY....or considered....just said recognized for doing a good job this year.
Title: Finally
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 27, 2006, 02:21:46 pm
I'm just excited to have so many people on the board!


BHawks: Stop trying to jinx us with all of your praise...its unnatural for you to be positive about the opposition, and that kind of reverse karma is not wanted over here in Bearcat land...

Good points about Whitman/COY, but I think you're fooling yourself if you don't think a school in salem or tacoma doesn't have a distinct advantage over a school located in Walla Walla, Wa...yes, I'm sure Bridgeland works his tail off in recruiting, but to say that Molitor doesn't, or that James doesn't is being a bit naive...
In addition, who's to say the academic requirements at lc/wu/ups are the same as whitw/whitman/linfield? does anyone have any solid numbers for GPA, SAT, etc on who get's in where?  While all the NWC schools are "academic" in nature, I'm sure some have higher levels of tuition/academic requirements than others, which once again may or may not slant the playing field to one school or another...
Now, Bridgeland has gotten tons of players from CA (including yourself if we're all not mistaken), which is definately him working hard at getting out of state kids...but also, doesn't that bring program budgets into play? If UPS can afford to send him to CA x amount of times, but Whitman/whoever can't, isn't that a perk of his job, rather than "Bridge outworking every coach in the NWC." (Even if he is paying for this himself, wouldn't that be simply because he can afford to, and maybe the others can't?)...
I don't  have any factual numbers on any of this, but they have to be considered before we go slamming certain coaches for not "working hard." I'd bet all of the leagues coaches work hard...

Now, as for the NWC tourney, I see whitworth edging out gfox and whitman, and them going to tacoma, with the winner ending up in salem to play the bearcats for the tourney ticket...although I think that if UPS wins the league, but falls in the NWC title game, they go to the dance as well...there are more bids this year, so they (and probably they alone) would have a shot at the ticket...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 27, 2006, 02:55:23 pm
Every school has its advantages and disadvantages.  And of course walla walla is a tougher sell, but never being .500 is underachieving a little.  the same way not finishing in the top half is underachieving for lin and ww, with budget, reputation, and facilities.   Budgets, academics, etc. all play a roll in a programs success, but UPS is at no more an advantage than any other school, ill give whitman and maybe gfu.  but still, there are good players everywhere, its a matter of finding them and getting them...and winning, making the most out of a situation...which no one has done better than bridgeland. 
     on to tonight, I got  ups over lc, wmn over lin,   pac over plu, and ww over fox at their place...anybody else?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 27, 2006, 06:00:07 pm
Quiet room.

Anyone notice that the NWC was written about in Around the Nation this week?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on January 27, 2006, 06:57:17 pm
Very good writeup about Willamette . Good to see the NWC getting some attention. I agree with most of the first and second teams posted so far.  Also, I saw PLU play twice early in the season and based on that I thought they had NO shot at beating anyone in the top-half of the league. Obviously, they improved a bit since then and I ended up eating my words. As for coach of the year, if Willamette wins of even gets second, James deserves it, especially based on what happened last year. When a team is picked for fifth and gets first or second, that reflects on the coach getting everything that he has from his team.  Should be a great finish this year and I look forward to the playoffs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 29, 2006, 03:28:01 pm
Would be nice to see Curtiss get POTW this week as UPS climbs back into a tie for first...Oh, its between players from UPS and Whitworth, gee, wonder who will get it?

Is nice to see wu in around the nation, I'll take any love the NWC can get.  Been a while since NWC men had 2 teams ranked.

Can't overlook UPS @ PLU, rivalry game on the road for the loggers.

Big week next weekend, ups @ fox and willamette has ww and wmn. 

Bye Saturday gives logger coaching staff opportunity to scout NWC...just as im sure wu staff was scouting friday night
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 29, 2006, 08:40:25 pm
Blackhawk,
What are you implying about the POTW selections?  Be a man and say what you really mean.  Do you even know how those are chosen? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 29, 2006, 10:12:21 pm
What???!!!!  Who are you????!!  Where did you come from??!  Bearcats I think I ruffled somebody's feathers!  That can't be right.  Me??? Upsetting somebody on the board?  Is this your first post ever? 

Please tell me I didn't upset someone so much that they went and created a new account to threaten my manhood??  I'm kinda hurt.   Can I at least hear your allegiance?

I mean, because I never "say what I really mean" on this board.  I never go out on a limb or make a prediction. I try cheer each team on equally. I'm always happy for all the players and coaches that get awards.  They all deserve 'em.  I've never been known to talk badly about any team or anybody.  I think they're all great!

I was simply questioning, I wonder who will get POTW?? Can't wait 'til tomorrow when its announced because I think the Loggers got a good shot at it.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 29, 2006, 10:32:02 pm
You know what Bearcats, I KNOW who pinecove is!!!  I've narrowed it down.  It's either Coach Molitor, Aaaron Schmick, or JOHN OLINGER!!!!

They're mad at me because of what I've been saying on the board.  Because you know, our opinions, bearcat, like you said, are very respected.  I know its one of them!

Allright listen, Skip, if it's you, I'm sorry I put you on blast.  Now will you stop questioning my manhood?

Aaron if it's you, I gotta ask you a question.  Do you still put 3 fingers up after you make a 3 even when you're losing?  Or when you're only .500 in league and not gonna make the postseason?

And John, if it's you...I'm sorry, you're a good player. And I need an autograph.  I'll be the one storming the court (like willamette did to ups 2 years ago) when the loggers run you guys by 30 in tacoma...again.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 30, 2006, 12:13:53 am
That's pretty typical BH, you get called on your cheap swipe (at who, the conference SID?) and back off pretty quickly.  Pretty churlish considering you were chosen as POTW a fair number in times during your career.

And I don't have anything to prove to you about my membership on this board.  When the two boards merged, I had to chose one username.  I went with the one that fit both (Pineconefan), rather than the one that was originally for basketball (Westhoop).  Of course I had registered long before you (UPS fans were never heard from until that first league title), and I remeber welcoming you to the board after your first post.  I continue to check in every once in a while, but haven't posted on basketball yet this winter.  Don't need your permission either.

As for allegiance, I've been watching Whitworth play since the early 80's.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 30, 2006, 11:33:09 am
BHawks:

#1-Pecht had an excellent week, and deservedly got POW for it...

#2-Curtiss was 3-12 for 9 points on Saturday...not exactly "Wow" numbers or POW like stats...

#3-There has been exactly 1 Whitworth player chosen as POW, while there have been 3 UPS players chosen...I don't see the bias you're alluding to on this one...perhaps you're barking up the wrong tree here...

#4-I doubt John Olinger, or any other current player, is on this board...and if UPS is as great as you've claimed they've been (and 30-2 is definately worth shouting about), why wouldn't WU storm the court after an upset win over a ranked opponent? (Oh, and UPS by 30 in Tacoma??? After losing by 9 in Salem? That would be quite the tank job by a quality Willamette team...)

I do agree, however, that this weekend is enormous for the Bearcats (perhaps bigger than the UPS/GFox weekend)...Whitworth and Whitman, in Salem, with both of those teams fighting for a playoff spot (although Whitman's loss to GFox had to be damaging, as it put them at 5 league losses, 2 back of Whitworth)...as it stands now, UPS and WU are 2 games up on the Pirates, but a win in Cone would give Whitworth a big lift...Coach James and his staff have their work cut out for them this week...

UPS also has a big rivalry game Tuesday(??) against PLU, and will be at a desperate GFox team on Friday...the race is heating up!

Pinecone:  Any thoughts on the WU/Whitw showdown??
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 30, 2006, 03:56:48 pm
Wow, you're pretty upset.

I don't even know what churlish means.

You should at least be happy that we brought the conference tournament back so that you guys and the other mediocre teams have a chance at the postseason.
By the way, what are the chances of Curtiss getting a hand shake from your coach after the game (win or lose)--very classy.  Funny, now seems whitworth fans are pretty quiet these days.  I would be too.

Bearcats, POTW didn't come out yet this week, not 'til tonight.  I'm placing a big bet right now that a player from UPS will get it.

"Quite the tank job" huh...see (03-04 and 04-05 seasons).  I'm wrong I guess after beating ups by 8, you only lost by 28 in tacoma.  And lets not even get into 05.

OK, pinecove...why don't you tell me who does choose POTW???  And I'm sure it is chosen from a completely unbiased source, right?  Is the "committe" (or is it a committe) who chooses it linked with any schools??!! 

Loggers still have wu at home, and (youre right a desperate) fox, ww, wmn on road.  As confident as I may try to sound, that schedule is scary.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 30, 2006, 08:34:56 pm
Pinecone:  Any thoughts on the WU/Whitw showdown??

Bearcats - This matchup has seen many great games over the last three or four years.  I think Whitworth caught Willamette a little by surprise with a trapping zone in the first meeting this year.  I don't think Whitworth will be able to surprise Willamette again.  From what I've seen of Coach James' teams over these many years, there won't be much surprise in store for Whitworth.  They just execute, execute, execute.  Should be a great one.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 30, 2006, 08:43:13 pm
BH - in response to your ramblings:

"Wow, you're pretty upset."
Nope.  Just stating facts.  And questioning weak assertions.  No reason to get upset at what some folks on these boards write, because most of us know that the security of anonimity gives the writers a freedom to say things he wouldn't have the nuggets to say in real life.  Some people converse.  Some people trash.

"I don't even know what churlish means."
Why am I not surprised?

"You should at least be happy that we brought the conference tournament back so that you guys and the other mediocre teams have a chance at the postseason."
UPS was responsible for bringing the conference tournament back?  Interesting, didn't know that.  And a long way to go in the season still.

"By the way, what are the chances of Curtiss getting a hand shake from your coach after the game (win or lose)--very classy."
I don't know the answer to that.  I do know its hard for a coach to shake Curtiss' hand when that player has been tossed from the game for slugging the opposing point guard.

"OK, pinecove...why don't you tell me who does choose POTW???"
Do some homework.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on January 31, 2006, 01:53:44 am
And the board heats up...

pineconfan: using big and/or obscure words to try and prove your superior intelligence is definitely uncool.

blackhawks4: before you question somebody about a word at least look it up in a dictionary. Churlish is a word and was entirely fitting in the context.

For the POTY week voting goes, as far as I know it is done by the NWC SIDs, and as long as they pay attention to the entire league that's fine.

bearcatsfan3: you asked about academic standards, and I got bored and didn't want to do reading so I did a little research on the NWC school websites. It turns out that UPS, Willamette, Whitworth, Whitman and Lewis & Clark all have average SATs in the 1200s, while the rest have averages in the 1100s. Whitman has the highest yearly total cost at about $37,000, with UPS and Linfield coming in at about $32,000. The rest are about $28,000. And as for undergraduate enrollment, UPS, Lewis & Clark, Pacific, PLU, Whitworth and Willamette all have enrollments between 2,000 and 3,000. The rest are around 1,500. So it seems if any team has the advantage from these stats it should be George Fox since it has one of the lowest average SAT scores, is one of the cheapest schools and is in Portland. Of course UPS was able to take AWill from Portland, I guess he didn't want to go to a Quaker school. Maybe that's a recruiting advantage, not being religiously affiliated, which UPS hasn't been since 1988 (I think that was the year, in the late eighties for sure). Of course it still took them 15 years to become competitive.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on January 31, 2006, 02:01:52 am
Oh, and all this recruiting talk reminds me of my favorite Bridgeland recruiting story:

Bridge is hosting a recruit from somewhere in Eastern Washington, and is showing the kid around school. He shows him the athletic facilities, the dorms, the academic buildings, and finally gets to the student union. So he brings the kid inside and goes over to the info desk because he sees one of the sportswriters for the school paper working. Turns out she's wearing a Whitworth basketball t-shirt that one of her friends from Whitworth had sent her. So Bridge comments on the shirt, giving her a hard time for supporting a rival and then turns to the kid and says, "you don't want to go there anyways, all they have is apple orchards and snow anyways." Without missing a beat the kid looks at him and says, "my parents own an apple orchard." To which Bridge replies, "that's great, I hope you had a great visit, if you have any questions call me, and have a great time at Whitworth." He never heard from the kid again and he enrolled at either Whitman or Whitworth. That was the last time he brought up apple orchards on a recruiting visit...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 31, 2006, 03:14:00 am
And the POTW goes to.....

Come'on pinecone, like we both don't know who and where the POTW comes from, very unbiased, huh...I thought it would be better if you said it, but turns out someone else doesn't wanna "be a man" and say where it come from...

 And as for "churlish," pinetree...you really don't want to get into a battle of academic standards, do you??  We both know that answer too.

"You should at least be happy that we brought the conference tournament back," I was referring to the NWC.  Come'on pinesol, why would UPS bring the tourney back??? We win league! It was teams like your own that are tired of having nothing to play for.  I don't blame them.  You guys have no shot at the title!

"I do know its hard for a coach to shake Curtiss' hand when that player has been tossed from the game for slugging the opposing point guard."

First of all, did you even see the play? It was a loose ball.

Secondly, pineapple, if it was (which it wasn't) slugging the opposing point guard," nobody respects the "I'm mad at you, I'm not gonna shake your hand."  Handle the situation with some pride and be a man about it.  I can tell you this much, if someone took a shot at UPS's top dog, or especially their point guard, something would have gone down.  It's a mentality.  Why do baseball pitchers throw at a batter! And save the " You guys are thugs, and fighting or retaliation would get whitworth suspended, etc."  If someone takes a shot at your guy, it's time to step up, and I'm sorry your coach doesn't instill that mentality in your guys.

Bearcats, I'm beginning to think you're right in regards to the "slip" out East.  Whitworth and Whitman back to back is the toughest road trip of the year.  A split isn't too bad.  Anybody know what happens if UPS and Willamette both go 14-2, split, and both lose to Whitworth?

And by the way, I do take offense to being called "(adj. 1. a rude illbred-person, 2. Rustic, and 3. a medieval peasant-Webster, 2006).  Especially the last one.  Thanks for the advice ds0097.  It's allright though, especially coming from a hyperinsullapotuitous individual!
 


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 31, 2006, 05:13:04 am
Being a conference SID is a thankless job, even more thankless than being a school's SID, as your axe-grinding has proven. Let the man do his job.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on January 31, 2006, 11:52:50 am
Good point Pat, being an SID is a thankless job and from what I've seen the ones in the NWC do a good job overall. From what I've seen over  the last 4 1/2 years they do a good job of keeping the websites up to date and get the recaps posted quickly. I know that if it weren't for their work, we would have had a much tougher job at the UPS newspaper writing the stories for away games that we couldn't attend. Unlike the players and some sids from other conferences they remain pretty unbiased in their writeups.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 31, 2006, 02:51:42 pm
Thanks Pat for saying it best.

Although BH, it is interesting how you conveniently ignore the information provided by DS0097 and Bearcatsfan.  Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.  I see you like truthiness compared to truth, lots of folks do.

And I was truly impressed.  In the space of a few sentences, you went from UPS winning "a battle of academic standards" to "something would have gone down."  I think you created a new category!  Move over "Student-Athlete" and make room for "Gangster-Scholar".  Yep, players with Cred tough enough for the street, yet brainy enough for the Ivy-covered walls of academia!  After laughing about that for a half hour or so, I realized what a coup that is for you guys.  While its certainly a small recruiting pool, if UPS is the rightful home to Gangster-Scholars, than that is a true recruiting advantage.

You know, that description kind of fits with the rumor that went around the league during the holidays.  Word from another NWC coach who was scouting the game is that your guys wanted to throw down with Illinois Wesleyan after getting clubbed in Santa Barbara.  Is that true?  Who knows... but it does seem to fit with your new Category, and it makes a great story, so why not believe it.  You know what, I kind of like this "Truthiness" thing too!

Ready to talk actual basketball yet?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 31, 2006, 02:55:18 pm
Bearcatsfan,

What are your thoughts on Friday's game?  Any individual match-ups you see going one way or another?  Does playing Whitworth first, followed by Whitman work in Willamette's favor, or against it?  Just curious what you think and I am ready to move on to real basketball conversation.

Pine
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 31, 2006, 04:47:17 pm
Pinecone:

I don't feel comfortable "claiming"  or deadpanning about Whitworth too much, as I haven't seen them enough...however, from Willamette's end (and based on what I've read about the Pirates and seen in the stats...and what I saw in the game at WU last year) here's what I see for Friday:

1. I think the strength of Willamette lies in the fact that it is shooting the heck out of the basketball right now...between stuvland, olinger, and miller, they're percentages our way above average, and obviously, that will need to continue against the Pirates.
2. Rebounding could be a major advantage for Whitworth, as the Bearcats (who actually lead the league for awhile) have struggled rebounding of late (although some of that can be attributed to the fact there aren't a lot of missed shots on their end)...
3. Defensively, WU is very strong, as their bigs (contrary to what  a Pirate fan said on this board earlier) are active, and their guards seem to have the freedom to switch match-ups and guard a number of different types of players (fife and erickson off the bench are both very good players, coupled with the three starters)...however, Whitworth's Pecht, and Tucker and Hasenfus both statistically are aggressive scorers and rebounders, so that could sway the game (which inside group wins out)
4.  I think (and Bhawks would agree with this) that Cone Fieldhouse is a tough place to play, and the crowds I've seen that last few home games have been very good, loud, and (although late arriving) involved in the game...the home court should help the Bearcats (especially if Young has as much trouble shooting as Curtiss did for UPS)...

5.  I like WU, obviously, but see a 65-61 type game that probably won't be decided till late...

I absolutely am dreading the Whitman game...the Born kid has been putting up great numbers, and the Kelly kid is the league's scoring leader...that's a dangerous combo, especially after a huge Friday game, and the fact that Whitman probably needs to win out to make the postseason...I still like the Bearcats, but would not want to be Coach James and his staff trying to prepare for two good teams back to back...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 31, 2006, 05:40:57 pm
Thanks for the insights Bearcat, appreciate it.

Willamette has been unconscious from outside, but that is a credit to their ability to work the ball for open looks.  The shot very poorly, especially in the second half, in Spokane.  So it will be interesting to see if that shooting night was the result of Whitworth's defense or the travel.  Stuvland was off to a strong start in that game, but struggled in the second half.

I have been to a couple of games at Cone.  Once the place was really rocking.  The other time it was kind of dead and only half of the bleachers were pulled.  I'm sure this year's game will be rocking simply because the Bearcats are playing well and are tied for first place. 

Unfortunately I will have to rely on Bob Castle on the radio, rather than be there this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 31, 2006, 05:59:23 pm
Pinecove... what have I said that hasn't been the truth?  Academic standards?   The princeton review calls UPS the best in the west. Whitman and willamette were there, i tried to find ww but my scroller broke.  Thanks now I need a new mouse.

Yeah, I love it when Pat jumps in and everyone gets a nice spot to put their nose for a second.  No offense to him, this wouldn't be here without him. And I think Whitworth SID does a great job!  Nice guy too, posts here and is informative.  For the most part Whitworths SID does good picking POTW.  But I didn't know I was stopping him from doing his job by questioning his choices for POTW.  Come'on.  

I think Curtiss should have got a piece as the Loggers climb back into a tie for first place.  And this isn't the first time I felt a UPS player was overlooked.  But I realize, UPS is 24-2 in NWC the past 2 years.  That's a lot of 2 win weeks that Logger players could get POTW.  I realize they can't get them all, but at times it's worth questioning.  You don't think I know Pecht's stats were a little better (not much mind you)this week?  But I thought the significance of the wins (UPS being back on top) might carry some wieght.  

Yeah, and gangsters...That's whats at UPS.  I didn't know standing up for a teammate was "gangster."  Lets whine and complain, not shake hands, and demand a suspension!  A man's way to settle it.  Right, you like to question manhood don't ya? Settle it on the court!  All I said was if a UPS player "gets slugged" it's dealt with on the court at that moment (no not cheapshots); standing up for yourself and your teammates.  If it was as bad as you say, Hayford should have been upset with his guys for leaving their pg hanging, not crying to the league.
 
Yeah, UPS is physical and competitive.  I don't know what happened in santa barbara, wasn't there.  Wouldnt doubt something happened.  Sorry, I guess as of late not used to losing...you guys must be getting used to it though.

And yes... Now I am ready to talk ball.

Bearcats, you should dread the Whitman game...I'm dreading that trip.  If UPS doesn't put it together, they're in trouble at gf, wmn and ww.  Could get ugly fast!  UPS has always struggled at whitman.  Agree, at wu sucks, but ww has seemed to do ok in past.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on January 31, 2006, 06:17:41 pm
Bearcats...breathe easy...pinecove and i settled our differences in private and it's over.  We agreed...if we were in grade school, ups would be the kid fighting, and whitworth would be the one telling the teacher.

Loggers @ PLU tonight...in rivalries you can throw the records out.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: steveflegel on February 01, 2006, 07:42:13 pm
I am happy to share the selection process for NWC Athletes of the Week to anyone.  Just send me an e-mail.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: steveflegel on February 01, 2006, 07:44:39 pm
sflegel@whitworth.edu
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 02, 2006, 10:14:44 am
Just stopped in to throw in my two cents for the POTY and COTY awards. Would have to give the COTY to Gordie James because he has put the bearcats in a position to win the conference title, doing so with less talent than Bridgeland.  I don't think COTY always goes to the coach of the number 1 team, but I do think POTY should in most all cases. Last year i thought Cross or Curtiss should have been the POTY and not Gayman. If UPS wins it should go to Curtiss. If WU grabs it then got to go with Olinger. Curtiss can really play, he has to be one of the smartest players, if not the smartest player, in the conference and he is one tough SOB. Having played against him it can be fustrating because he gets a lot of cheap calls that go his way, but that is because he is so intelligent enough to put himself in position to fool the refs. I love McVey and would want him on my team, but you can't be POTY and be in foul trouble every game. Believe me blackhawk, I know about picking up cheap fouls because you are the biggest player in the conference, but I managed to do it so I am sure he can too.
That being said, overall I think the talent is down in the NWC from previous years. The top team UPS is not as good as previous years and I think there is a real lack of dominant posts, the best being McVey. Scott Szalay is tough at the defense of end, but he doesn't have much offense other than finishing around the hoop. Honestly, I am sure he is a hard worker, but I do not understand how Kyle Born gets those numbers. He is not big and strong like Szalay or the athlete that McVey is. Having played against him it makes me wonder who is letting this guy score?!
Blackhawk I would like you to tell me how the 4 out 1 in offense isn't a great offense for a post? If you have shooters that can spread the floor it has to be the best offense for a post.

PS. I think that Tacoma, as far as cities to recruit guys too, other than portland is way better than the towns of any of the other schools. Maybe I am just being biased being from the area.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: BVHawk on February 02, 2006, 10:49:28 am
I have a feeling the Loggers will still take the conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 02, 2006, 01:59:56 pm
BVHawk:  good post...very nice to hear somebody other than me say something good about curtiss.  with him its not even about stats as much as confidence, intelligence, leadership, and you hit the nail on the head with toughness.  agree with you on mcvey. 

I also like 4 out 1 in, especially if you're playing small ball.  How it hurts Mcvey is that he constantly has the baseline official staring at him.  And you know being a post, refs LOVE to blow the whistle and "clean up" play down there.  Mcvey is honestly very, very good with his hands down there (arms are always up, elbows out) and positioning and sealing.  But he's stronger than everybody and with the flopping he gets whisteld at least once a game.  Watch him on the block if you get a chance, his fundamentals w/o the ball are very good.

The PLU posts were disgusting.  Flopping on Mcvey twice for offensive fouls (bad too).  We all know the difference between a flop in the post and a charge, but refs love it.  Always excited to play Fox (Szalay hopefully wont flop), wu and ww so they guard him standing up.

Talked way too much about COTY...I stay the same, don't think doing more with less talent justifies COTY...go get talent. if james wins conference he deserves coty.

I'm as puzzled with born as you are... but please, kyle,  dont get us for 81 and 40 again when we play you...

Disagree with you on Tacoma, or as the rest of the board likes to call tacompton.  I think whitworth and linfield have it best.  LC, pac, plu, fox, will, and ups about even. fox, wmn slight disadvantage.

i got ups over fox, lc over whitman, pac over lin, will over ww...big friday night

saturday...wmn over will!!!, ww over lc, lin over plu, fox over pac

BV...what is going wrong down in mcminville???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 02, 2006, 04:33:50 pm
1. Question: Do they do Regional Rankings anymore? If so, when do they come out, or where are they posted to look at?

2.  I've got Bearcats 69, Pirates 64 on Friday, with UPS over Fox, Whitman over LC,  and Linfield over Pacific (I, like BHawks, am wondering how Linfield's football team can be so dominant, yet Basketball has fallen on hard times)...

3. Saturday, Willamette over Whitman 70-62, despite the double double Born will probably put up...

Pinecone, I'm assuming you got the Pirates winning friday, but give us some insight...BHawks, tell you're boys to be careful in Newberg, Fox can't afford anymore losses...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 02, 2006, 06:09:20 pm
Blackhawk, thanks for the good response, but it wasnt BVHawk who wrote that stuff it was me! I do feel for McVey though, the NWC is a guards conference and they get most of the calls and it can get fustrating. Biggest problem I had with the refs is not the baseline ref, but the one out at half court blowing the wistle on happenings in the key, when you know damn well he couldn't see what happend.
After living in McMinnville for 3 years I can tell you this, Linfield has a great campus and I am happy I went there, but McMinnville is a bit boring. Not really much there. Whitworth, my former roommate/ teammate who was from there used to always refer to Spokane as Spocompton. Like I said though maybe I am just being biased because I am from the Tacoma area.
As for Linfield they are having a real down year, they lost a ton of production to graduation. I read an article earlier in the year before the season started that said Chris Lewis, Blake Shelton, and Kreiger; myself, made up something like 70% of the team's rebounding, scoring and 3 point shooting and all of the shotblocking. Thats just a lot to make up considering the starting point guard graduated too. They lost the recruiting battle to Pacific over Ross Bartlett, a very good frosh post, because of an error by the Linfield finanicial aid department.  Last, the player that would have done the scoring in the post this year for Linfield suffered a season ending injury before official practice even kicked off the season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: piofan on February 03, 2006, 09:19:58 am
Blackhawk-
Great point about the post play in the NWC.  The refs do and have loved to make the call on the post for the purpose of "cleaning" it up since my days in the 90's. All it takes is one small bump from McVey and if the defender flops, the defender will get that call.  It is really sad in my opinion.

I am up in the air about the recruiting advantages and disadvantages.  I think UPS has a great location in Tacoma (compared to PLU). Whitworth seems like it would be nice during the spring when most recruits visit, but I always thought it was dreadful up there in the heart of winter.  Linfield has a campus that is one of the best in the conference and with a great sports school. LC has a great campus and location, but our student body is a whole different story (and when you visit and see it, you can easily be drawn away)!! Pacific and Fox I was never a real fan of either, along with Whitman.  UPS and Linfield should be winning most recruiting wars based on location and campus environments.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2006, 11:04:02 am
1. Question: Do they do Regional Rankings anymore? If so, when do they come out, or where are they posted to look at?

The first regional ranking will be released this coming Wednesday. The second will be released on Wed., Feb. 15, and the third will be released on Wed., Feb. 22.

Pat will post them here on the site, as usual.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 04, 2006, 01:40:09 pm
Brightside is you still control your own destiny bearcatsfan...You guys still win league if you win out.  But you gotta win all of 'em (still very possible). 

What you got going for you bearcats is you lost last night, and I really don't see you losing two in a row, especially to whitman, a team that is dangerous, but you should beat.

Salvage the split this weekend and you got two gimme's next weekend.  Then you have an absolute war in tacoma.  Then you gotta win at fox on senior night, which could get interesting.

Bad news bearcatsfan, you win tonight and the loggers clinch a spot in the NWC tourney.  You also gave Loggers a little breathing room out east.  They can split; take care of you guys at home and win league.

You also lost your tie breaker to ww and may have to travel for first nwc tourney game.  Regardless, can ww really beat you guys three times this year?   My money says no..wherever its played.

This will make things a little more interesting when loggers go to spokane...Game to watch tonight is LC/Whitworth...I got LC, Gailard's always got something crazy...My money also says you'll see the Logger coaching staff up there scouting that one.

Either way, I'm lookin forward to cuttin' them nets down february 17th after the wu game...a little later than expected, but a lot more exciting...and we still got the tourney.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 04, 2006, 04:10:02 pm
It was a big win for the Pirates last night.  So far Willamette's two worst shooting nights have come against Whitworth.  One time might be accidental, but twice indicates a trend.  However, I DO agree with BlackHawk, I don't know if a team ever wants to try and beat another good team three times in one year.

And BH is also right, but Bucs need to be careful about a letdown at Pioland tonight.  And the fact that its always so dead in that gym can make it harder. 

Interesting that Whitman and Willamette are playing the 4:00 game today.  Will anyone be there to watch?
Title: Tough Weekend
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 07, 2006, 10:38:59 am
Between the Pirates beating WU, and then the 'Hawks handing over the Super Bowl, it was a tough weekend, and I just now have the ability to post anything worthwhile...

1.  Whitworth put itself right back in the thick of things by beating the Bearcats from start to finish in Salem...While pinecone is correct that shooting so poorly twice against the same team is an indication of the whitworth defense, I was at the game, and WU just missed tons of open looks. You could say Whitworth is in their heads perhaps, but half the missed shots came against a soft zone...

2. Whitworth does present some difficult matchups for willamette, as olinger was in foul trouble all night trying to guard pecht/tucker...

3. The whitman win (coming back from a halftime deficit using a 15-0 run) was a big win for the Bearcats, as it kept them in front of the Pirates (who now own the tiebreaker) and only a game back of the loggers (as Bhawks stated)

4.  Gotta believe the whitworth/ups game is the biggest of the season to date, as a logger win puts whitworth two back of willamette, and virtually guarantees them being on the road in the nwc playoffs...but a Pirate win puts them just one game out of first, and forces WU to have to win out to avoid being on the road in the playoffs...(I hope to see some breakdown of this game by both Bhawks and Pinecone this week)...

5.  Bearcats, while playing two teams with less than stellar records, still must guard against any complacency, as both teams have shown ability this season...Willamette cannot afford any slipups the rest of the way...

6. This is shaping up as a great finish to a great season (aren't you glad you didn't sleep throughout it all Bhawks?)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 08, 2006, 09:41:11 am
Quote
(I, like BHawks, am wondering how Linfield's football team can be so dominant, yet Basketball has fallen on hard times)...

ditto!
Title: Region Rankings
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 08, 2006, 04:34:54 pm
Region Rankings are out...

UPS is #2 behind Oxy
Willamette is #6

Question: The rankings list WU as 15-3 14-6 but aren't they actually 13-2 in region, and 14-6 overall??

Where's the Pirate/Logger chatter?

I like UPS to sweep this weekend...I know Pirates are tough at home, but it seems like the Loggers are a bad matchup for Whitworth, the Pirates are a bad matchup for Willamette, and the Bearcats are a bad matchup for UPS...interesting top 3 situation, and the rest of the league so far out of it...any Fox people with comments on what happened to the Bruins this year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on February 08, 2006, 05:57:40 pm
it's kind of weird to see Occidental at the top of the basketball rankings, but they have the better record, and if UPS wins out (and I know that no given) I don't see how the committee can't move them up to #1. Occidental won't have a better in conference record, and I think the in-region record would favor UPS.

It'll also be interesting to see how the committee handles the three Winsconsin teams. I've been hearing that only 1, at most 2 of those teams could make the tourney. Could that boost the 'Cats chances? If they win out and then come in second to UPS in the tourney it would put some serious pressure on the selection committee.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 08, 2006, 11:54:33 pm
Well, Friday night is certainly a big game.  I can understand by Bearcatfan would be pulling for UPS because that would keep things simple for Willamette heading into the final weekend.  A Whitworth win definitely makes things more complicated.  The main reason I don't think the match-up problem applies between UPS and Whitworth is the first game was close and easily could have gone the other way.  In the Willamette-whitworth case, Whitworth won by 28 at home and 16 on the road.

But the Pirates are definitely the team that has to prove something this weekend.  The fact is UPS has won five in a row over Whitworth and the last two in Spokane.  It should be a better crowd since the student body is back in town.

Whitworth's forwards are playing really well right now.  They are getting toughness out of the post, which we haven't seen since Depew.  Biggest question facing Pirate fans - what would happen if B. Williams went down with an injury.  The guys is sometimes playing 40 minutes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 09, 2006, 06:35:06 pm
The regional rankings are a joke!  Very, very confused as to how Occidental is #1????? 

UPS is 12-1 in region, and 17-3 overall--with losses to Warner Pac (#3 in the nation NAIA), illinios wesleyan (#7 in the nation D3), and willamette!  UPS also beat Riverside D1 (I know it doesn't count). 

Who has Occidental played?  La Sierra?  Pacific Union?  Terrible teams.  And did Occidental really only beat Cal Tech by 14!!!LOL.   I hope they played their last five guys the entire game.  And I hope those last five played left handed and blindfolded.  UPS played horribly at Cal Tech and won by 50.  You honestly cannot compare the SCIAC and the NWC, we've also beat them the past 2 years in the tourney. (yes i realize the wisconsin schools could use this entire argument about us!!)

Yes bearcatsfan, NWC play is tolerable this year...but just wait...UPS is still going to go 15-1 just like i've said all year.   (hope i don't pull a himjay).

But before that, UPS has to get something offensivley in Spokane.  Whether it's Curtiss, McVey, Marsh, whoever, they all can't play poorly offensively.  Be nice to see McVey have a big one.

In tacoma, UPS took Williams out of it by denying him the ball in the full court and making somebody else bring it up.  When he finally did get it, he played terrible(1st half).  Look for them to do the same thing in spokane.  If that doesn't work, look for the Loggers to "get gangster on Williams and slug him."

I'm worried about @ Whitworth, and terrified @ Whitman.

The Bearcats aren't a bad matchup with UPS. Their place is the toughest in conference (for UPS especially) and they're a good team this year.  UPS has lost the past 3 years at the second place teams court. 

In my opinion, UPS has a slim chance at making tourney if they win out and lose in playoffs, whitworth and willamette have no chance if they lose the tourney (regardless of who wins league).  Those bids will go to the wisconsin schools or other conferences.

And come'on formercat, you got all pc on us...that's not whats happening down in McMinville.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 09, 2006, 06:39:21 pm
Congratulations to Phil Heu-Weller (3.96, Bus. Admin./Econ.) of George Fox for being selected today by CoSIDA (the College Sports Information Directors of America) to the ESPN the Magazine Academic All-District First Team for District 8, College Division.  By being selected, Phil automatically becomes a nominee for selection to the Academic All-America team for the College Division. 

Named to the second team for District 8 were Pacific Lutheran's Drew Cardwell (3.70, Physics/Math) and Whitman's Kyle Born (3.61, English).

Congratulations to these fine student-athletes!

Men's Academic All-District Teams (http://www.cosida.com/formpdfs/mb06acad.pdf)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2006, 08:26:44 pm
Blackhawks4,

You should learn a little bit about the regional rankings process. You mentioned all sorts of games that are completely irrelevant.

Check out my blog post from yesterday:

http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=125
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 10, 2006, 12:31:58 am
Pat:  Maybe you misunderstood my post.  I said Occidental being #1 is a joke!!!  If you think Occidental is better than Puget Sound or any Wisconsin team you're drunker than I am on this beautiful thursday night (I'm a very credible poster).  I also mentioned that I knew the games were irrelevant.  What I'm saying is that the SCIAC is a bad conference and it is ridiculous that they are #1.  You can use all the criteria you want but that doesn't change the fact that if they lineup with somebody half decent they're gonna get run.   Come'on Cal Tech by 14!!!!  Cal Tech is the worst team in the nation...I think statistically...but I'm sure you know.  I know you go by the numbers and the official process but do you really want to take Occidental's side here???  Do they really deserve a first round bye? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 10, 2006, 12:48:46 am
I've seen Occidental (vs. Amherst), and I've seen Puget Sound (twice, vs. Behrend and vs. Illinois Wesleyan).  Those games were a while back, and it's possible that things have changed.  But based on those games, I think Occidental is the better team.  And I'm not drunk.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 01:06:00 am
You can use all the criteria you want 
Oh good -- because the criteria are all that matters in regional rankings.

By the way, I think there are probably 50 D-III teams that could have beaten UC Riverside at that point in the season.

You said:

Very, very confused as to how Occidental is #1?????

I suggested you read the criteria. That's all. Should be painfully clear if you actually bother to do so.
Title: Region Rankings
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 10, 2006, 01:18:32 pm
Far be it from me to jump on BHawks side too often in here, but if were talking about the criteria and "its painfully obvious," then you have Oxy with one region loss (to LaVerne) and UPS with one region loss (to #6 Willamette)...Oxy is 10-1 in region games, UPS is 12-1...they have not played head to head, and the only common region opponent is Whitworth, who both beat in extremely tight games...now, oxy is one game better in overall record, but that's not a true indication of much, as you never know how each team schedules (difficult, patsy, etc.)...

While BHawks is often quick to jump on the Loggers side in an extreme way, in this case doesn't he have at least an argument? At the very least, it is NOT painfully clear.

PC, also want your take on a NWC team getting an at large, as I agree with BHawks (twice in one day, I must be drunk) that UPS has the only shot at that at large selection...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 01:57:49 pm
The QOWI is far, far in favor of Occidental. Regional record isn't the only criterion. Again, back to the blog link I posted earlier.

He can argue that Occidental is not the best team in the West Region, but it's hard ... again, when looking at the criteria ... to say they shouldn't be the top-ranked team in said criteria.

I wouldn't rule out Willamette getting a Pool C bid if they win out and lose in the NWC final. There are 18 Pool C bids this year.
Title: Reg. Rankings
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 10, 2006, 02:19:18 pm
What is the QOWI formula? I went to the blog and saw the numbers (definately in favor of OXy) but how do you calculate it?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 10, 2006, 06:56:23 pm
What is the QOWI formula? I went to the blog and saw the numbers (definately in favor of OXy) but how do you calculate it?

Score each in-region game as follows:

* 15 points for a road win over a team with a .667 or better in-region winning percentage
* 14 points for a home win over a team with a .667 or better in-region winning percentage
* 13 points for a road win over a team with an in-region winning percentage between .500 and .666
* 12 points for a home win over a team with an in-region winning percentage between .500 and .666
* 11 points for a road win over a team with an in-region winning percentage between .333 and .499
* 10 points for a home win over a team with an in-region winning percentage between .333 and .499
* 9 points for a road win over a team with an in-region winning percentage .332 or lower
* 8 points for a home win over a team with an in-region winning percentage .332 or lower
* 7 points for a road loss to a team with a .667 or better in-region winning percentage
* 6 points for a home loss to a team with a .667 or better in-region winning percentage
* 5 points for a road loss to a team with an in-region winning percentage between .500 and .666
* 4 points for a home loss to a team with an in-region winning percentage between .500 and .666
* 3 points for a road loss to a team with an in-region winning percentage between .333 and .499
* 2 points for a home loss to a team with an in-region winning percentage between .333 and .499
* 1 point for a road loss to a team with an in-region winning percentage .332 or lower
* 0 points for a home loss to a team with an in-region winning percentage .332 or lower

Add them all up, divide by the number of in-region games played, and there you have your QOWI.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 10, 2006, 07:34:46 pm
So I should expect to see Oxy in the Final Four huh? 

Something tells me the SoCal'ers should hold off just a minute before they book their flights.

I'm not arguing the criteria, I don't care even look at it.  What I can say is that Occidental is nowhere near the best team in the west region.  Now you can throw your numbers and stats at me but I guarantee you the second they lineup with somebody in that top 8 their going home!  And it's not going to be closer than 20, especially if it's a wiac school. 

Oxy is not better than UPS...I don't care where they play the game or if the use superbowl refs. 

Regardless...huge ups/whitworth game tonight...hope ww doesn't win and turn my whole argument against me
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 08:18:13 pm
All of that information is in the FAQ ... which is so frequently asked I have a link to it at the bottom of all of my posts.

So you are changing your tune. Fine. Just don't give me a hard time about it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 08:21:47 pm
I am not saying, BTW, that Occidental IS the best team in the West. I am trying to enlighten you on your original question:

Very, very confused as to how Occidental is #1?????
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 10, 2006, 11:26:36 pm
not a good start by loggers, they'll be back...your radio guy is really good
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2006, 12:00:22 am
Oof, you're not kidding about a not-good start, down 46-24 at the half.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 11, 2006, 12:52:13 am
lol...same thing i told bearcats...doesn't mean much, still control their own fate, need to split tomorrow.  sounds like ww's crowd was awesome
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 11, 2006, 04:22:46 am
Not sure why anyone thinks that the NWC championship is already decided.   UPS & Willamette face each other next Friday & someone has to lose.  That means that one of those teams will have 3 losses, just like Whitworth.   Seems like the whole thing could get shaken up in the last few games!   We all know that any team can win on any night in the NWC --  it's been that way for years!!  No one should take George Fox, Linfield or Whitman for granted, or for that matter, PLU -- ask Whitworth!!  It just promises to get more interesting!!

By the way, I was looking at the box score for the UPS/Whitworth game & there was a lot more going on there than the crowd.  Like the shooting percentages!!  Whitworth WOW!  UPS Not SO WOW - which surprises me, because I've seen them play & they shoot well.  So maybe it was an "off night" or maybe it was good defense?  Hmmm.  Anyone see the game?

Willamette was awesome tonight against Pacific.   I think Olinger had a perfect night for 3's & they were really playing great team basketball!!  Their student crowd even showed up for the first half!!  Amazing!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 11, 2006, 12:05:37 pm
With all this talk about Willamette and UPS, people need to start considering Whitworth as the team to beat in the NWC.  Yes Whitwoth has 3 losses compared to the 2 losses by the other schools, but that was early.  Whitwoth lost their first regular season game to George Fox, at Fox after being up 22 in the second half and losing Tucker early in the game to a concussion.  Credit that loss to early season flunders and a great comeback by Fox. 

Whitworth did play Oxy.  In fact they led by 5 with under a minute to go.  Whitworth played bad and had Oxy barried.  The refs blew the game with an intentional foul on Whitworth, up 5 with less than a mintue to go.  That proved to be the deciding factor.  Anyways, just a bad loss.  But let me tell you, Oxy is not that good!!!  Period!!!

Whitworth was up 5 in the last 1:30 or so against UPS, at UPS.  Some costly mistakes and a great end of the game by Delong beat Whitworth.  However, there was a very questionable no-call at the buzzer!!  Possibly a charge, but I have heard from people who have seen the film that it looked like Whitworth's point guard got fouled.  That game should have been deciced with free throws with no time on the clock.  Oh well.  Whitworth simply did not get up for the following night's game at PLU.  That is a credit to PLU, who played a great game, and a discredit to Whitworth for not getting up for the game and taking their opponet for granted.  Unfortunately, had Whitworth beat PLU that night, they would be leading the NWC.

Whiworth had completely blown out Willamette.  Last night Whitwoth was up on UPS by 30 when the coach cleared the bench with 3:30 to go.  The game was a blow out from the start.  UPS's press created some turnover, and also a ton of layups and open looks.  Whitworth's defense was all over the place and UPS did not make an adjustment the whole night, they simply got outplayed and out coached.  People keep talking about poor shooting against Whitworth both times by Willamette, how about some good, in the shooters face defense?  Same thing against UPS.  Chase Curtis had his first two 3's tipped.  McVey got his first two jump up in the air and muscle it at the basket shots, slammed back at the floor.  Yes Whitworth had a great crowd, but their play on the court was much better.  UPS had great crowds at their place, and Whitworth was a no call away from a win on the road.

As for an earlier post about how much more talented UPS's players are than Whitworths.....  I think we saw who the player of the year is again for the 7th game in a row.  Lance Pecht!  He is near the top is most categories.  Including first in scoring and 3 pt percentage.  Not bad for a big guy.  He is near the top is field goal percentage, free throw percentage, reboounds, and is on the list in many other categories.  Plus he shows up in big games!  Bryan Willams didn't look to bad last night either.  Neither did the rest of the Pirates!!!  And how about Coach of the Year.....Jim Hayford has out coached Willamette and UPS on both occasions.  He has his team playing the best ball in the conference hands down. 

Now I know this post is very Whitworth orientated, but it is about time.  I have been reading about UPS and Willamette long enough.  However good comments and posts, but lets not forget about the team from Spokane.  I am not wanting to put down any of the other teams, but would like to point out the success of Whitworth.  It is shaping up to be a great finish and I wish good luck to all of the teams!!  Go Bucs!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2006, 12:39:50 pm
If they're that good, it shouldn't come down to one official's call. There was a phrase in this conference a few years ago, "Leave no doubt" -- do that and a couple points won't be the deal-breaker.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 11, 2006, 12:53:22 pm
oh my god bearcatsfan...where do these guys come from??? At least I only have to put up with em for 2 weeks and then they'll be done just like whitworth.  good win ww, ill admit you got a chance, i think whoever has home court advantage in the nwc tourney has a HUGE advantage.  loggers NEED to bounce back tonight (whitman is always a tough place for ups to play and their talented and big).  but i really don't see wu or linfield gettin ups at home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 11, 2006, 01:24:48 pm
Wow, NWC bandwagon fan, ooops . . . I mean bball fan . . . sounds like whitworth is ONLY three excuses away from a perfect season! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 11, 2006, 03:05:02 pm
It was a huge game for Whitworth last night.  The Pirates played the same trapping zone that gave Willamette so much trouble and it looked like UPS was never able to adjust the game.  The 0-13 from three in the first half wasn't that much of a fluke.  The only open looks were from the corner and almost all the shots were rushed.

The Pirates are obviously the hottest NWC team right now, but they can't consider the win over UPS as the end of the road.  They have three key games left and have to keep it going.  However, if the Rats to win the final three against PLU, Whitman, and Pacific (combined NWC record of 11-28), then the worst the Pirates will do is host the First Round game in the NWC tournament.  So not only do UPS and Willamette have to win tonight against Whitman and Linfield, but the loser of their game next Friday looks like it could drop from a first to third seed.

BH, I know you like to back the boys you played with (Curtiss, McVey), but I think the most naturally talented player on that team is A. Williams.  Once the UPS team becomes "his" next season, I think he'll be a dominating player in the NWC for three seasons. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 11, 2006, 05:01:37 pm
Oh yes Blackhawks fan -- we really believe what you have to say.  I believe it's what you call "pulling a himjay?"  I'm referring to your statement that 'UPS is still going to go 15-1 just like I've said all year."   So -- UPS wasn't quite able to shut down Brian Wiliams or Lance Pecht last night.  I also watched UPS play the Bearcats at Salem & even though they had 3 more free throw attempts, UPS's 8.3% on 3's and 41.9% FG didn't cut it -- they lost by 9 points!  Really thought it would be closer than that since UPS is so great!!

Actually the top three teams are pretty matched.  Just depends on the night.  It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.  But UPS did lose at Whitworth & they will see trouble at Whitman -- everyone else does!   It ain't over yet!!

Don't count the Bucs or the Bearcats out - it may be UPS that drops to third -- guess we'll know more by next Friday!!  The real fact is that only one team -- UPS or WU can win next Friday and Whitworth has already played both of them twice.   One of those two teams will have 3 in the loss column, just like Whitworth.  And there's always the "spoilers" -- it's basketball -- sometimes the "bad" team wins!!

And Whitworth has a healthy George again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 11, 2006, 08:18:58 pm
I see that McVey only took 5 shots but shot 10 free throws. Did whitworth use the foul him anytime he gets near the basket stratagy? Linfield played over there last year they did that to me, works pretty well, its hard to get a rhythm going.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2006, 01:13:43 am
loggers bouce back...win at whitman...Sorry at the beginning i said 15-1, i guess it's only 14-2 and another conference championship...looks like we'll have to wait 'til saturday to pull out the scissors though huh...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 12, 2006, 01:52:09 am
No -- they actually have to win the playoff series before you start celebrating & they have to get past Whitworth & Willamette to do that.  We'll just see!  There's no automatic NWC champ anymore -- it's back to the good ol' days of playoff stuff.  YAY!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2006, 01:54:23 pm
Did you say "YAY?"  Correct me if I'm wrong but the NWC champ is the team that finishes in first at the end of the conference season, not neccesarily the team that wins the NWC tourney.

With the Loggers getting absolutely crushed in spokane and the powerhouse SCIAC (Occidental's gotta be the best team in the nation by now-right?) there is no way 2 NWC teams go to the tourney.  The winner of the NWC tourney will be the only rep. of the conference.

Loggers got absolutely nothing offensivlely from anybody in Spokane.  I thought that would be the key. 

I can't remember that last time I've seen a home court influence the outcomes of games as much as this year.  I think whoever has home court advantage in playoffs has HUGE edge. 

Whitworth is obviously hot, but honestly who do people think would fair best in the NCAA tourney?  I say (of course) UPS because of their style...I think wu or ww runs into trouble early with nwc being down. 

Curtiss had a monster game @ whitman--30 and 9.

UPS wins out wins league
WU wins out wins league

Somebody help me out with the scenarios:
WW wins out

UPS beats WU, loses to LIN (not gonna happen UPS senior night)
WU loses to UPS, wins @ Fox)

or

WU beats UPS
ups beats lin, wu loses @ fox (on senior night)

It hurts my head to think about it
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2006, 01:59:21 pm
What the hells karma and why am i -4?????  does that mean people dont like me?? i find that hard to believe.  is it because i disagreed with pat?  i hope he swoops in from nowhere to save the day again. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on February 12, 2006, 05:51:38 pm
Excuses keep coming about the way Puget is playing.  Oh and bbaddict, "pulling a Himjay", you mean being right.  I stated before how Whitworth was just, if not more talented than UPS. UPS is a well-coached team with some scrappy players that play hard every night but they are really not that talented.  McVey is a talented big man and williams is skilled, especially for a freshman. Curtiss is a streaky shooter who is also fairly talented. The rest are all solid role players that play each game like it is their last. Whitworth showed that they are every bit as good as UPS and dominated from start to finish. I think it just took them awhile to hit their stride. UPS is a good team though and I think all 3 (UPS, WU, WW) could beat each other on any given night.  As for the rest of the league:

George Fox-A little bit disappointing this year but trying to finish up on a good note.

Whitman- Improved team but they don't play much in the way of defense.

LC- Ineligible players and injuries hurt, but I think it might be time for their coach to hang it up.

PLU/Linfield/Pacific- Rebuilding
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2006, 07:09:07 pm
bballaddict, i dont know why i'm even addressing you seeing as that in two weeks you will disappear along with whitworth from the nwc tourney.

But, pulling a himjay is when on friday night you say "Most teams (PLU the exception) are all matched somewhat evenly as far as talent goes, giving anyone a chance for an upset on any given night."  And then on Saturday, PLU beats you and you disappear from the board for 2 weeks.

Himjay, what excuses have been made for UPS?  The one thing I mentioned that could be considered an excuse is that McVey gets rough foul calls down low, but that wasn't even meant that way.  I've mentioned all year that I hope they can "pull it together."  If you want to see excuses read your boy NWC Bball Fan's post.

Himjay, it was one game!!!! Upsets happen (do I need to remind you about the Lutes). But,  UPS not talented? Curtiss..."fairly talented" and only a "streaky shooter." Not going to waste my breath. Do I even have to address this?  And gee, 3 star players and solid role players, yeah that sounds bad.  Who would want that?

   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 12, 2006, 07:20:29 pm
if my karma gets any lower am i gonna get reported to the moderator?  then what, are we talkin fines, suspensions?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 12, 2006, 10:13:16 pm
Blackhawks:  What makes you so certain that I'm a Whitworth fan?  Maybe I'm rooting for the Bearcats?  One thing is certain -- I'm not for UPS.  However, if they do represent the NWC in the regionals -- I'd have to say "Go Loggers!"  And I'm not going to disappear -- you should be so lucky.  Oh yeah, you're the one with negative karma.

Actually, the phrase "pulling a himjay" was your phrase not mine & I took it to mean being dreadfully wrong about the outcome of a game.  Sorry Himjay.  That's what it sounded like.

Yes -- the home court does seem to be an advantage -- although Whitworth won at Willamette and they came close enough to make UPS pretty nervous in Tacoma.  With the stomping that Willamette gave UPS in Salem & how they've been playing, I think Willlamette will come out on top.

How does that work if Whitworth & UPS are both tied for second?  Who would get home court advantage?  I know they're split, but Whitworth beat Willamette twice, so would that put them up on on UPS?  Just wondering.

As far as games being determined by refs -- I was once told by an excellent bb player that part of the game is getting past the reffing & if you can't do that, you're not a very good team!!

Also, I think UPS has a lot of talent on their team -- their weakness is that they don't play "team basketball."  I think that's an area where Willamette & Whitworth (on a good night) do a better job.

So..... go ahead & guess where my loyalties are -- others have tried!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 12, 2006, 10:57:46 pm
Oh by the way Blackhawks -- the season hasn't ended yet & UPS doesn't have the final best record.  They could be tied with Whitworth by the end of the week.  Chew on that!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 12, 2006, 11:21:14 pm
bbaddict:  Nobody is amused with your "guess where my loyalties are" act.  Stop trying to play the middle ground so that you can jump on either the Willamette or Whitworth bandwagon if one of them happens to win. 

" . . .others have tried"  When was this?  Didn’t you just post your first message yesterday?

By the way, its pretty easy to sit back and second guess people’s predictions after the fact.  Why don’t you step up to the plate and make one of your own?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 12, 2006, 11:34:57 pm
How come it is alright for Blackhawks4 to say whatever he wants about other teams, repeat over and over how good UPS is, and bash on other people's posts, but when someone else says something he acts like is the best thing since the invention of the internet.  I just want to remind him that Whitworth had UPS beat in the closing minutes and gave it away along with the refs.  Yes UPS earned the win.  Good job UPS, they are a good team.  But at Whitworth, they got completely dominated in all facets of the game as soon as the opening jump ball took place.  I can't stress enough how bad they got dominated.  They were down 30 when coach Hayford cleared the bench with about 4:00 remaining.  Say what you want about home court, they got worked over bad!!!  I am interested to hear your background..... are you like some basketball legend or something?  By the way you write on here, I would guess you are in the hall of fame or must live on the campus of UPS or something????  I know not everyone on this board agrees on everything, and that makes it fun, but one thing I am sure everyone can agree on is that you are not quite as cool to everyone else as you are to yourself!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 13, 2006, 01:00:30 am
NWC Bball fan:  I tried to read your post but I couldn't understand your sentences.  I'm not even going to reply because I wouldn't feel comfortable arguing with a little kid.   

BBaddict, I'm losing sleep here--lying in bed, tossing and turning...Who do you root for?

On a serious note, I'm interested in hearing you elaborate on UPS not playing "team ball."

I would also like clarification on the tie breakers.

I got UPS by 20 over Willamette...watch for the Loggers to come firing out of the gate and put them away early. Willamette's walking into a war zone in tacoma (should be a loud student body too)

They may have a slow start on senior night but they'll take care of Linfield. 

Have a fun trip out to Spokane Willamette, it seems like WW has your number.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 13, 2006, 01:10:18 am
That is exactly the kind of responce I expected from the "oh so mighty" Blackhawk!  Whitworth owns the tie breakers over Willamette and UPS because UPS and Willamette split, Whitworth beat (killed) Willamette twice, and Whitworth has a larger (by 23) margin of victory over UPS.  Go to sleep Blackhawk, someone like yourself who has such a superior mind, needs some rest!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 13, 2006, 02:48:36 am
bbaddict:  Nobody is amused with your "guess where my loyalties are" act.  Stop trying to play the middle ground so that you can jump on either the Willamette or Whitworth bandwagon if one of them happens to win. 

" . . .others have tried"  When was this?  Didn’t you just post your first message yesterday?

By the way, its pretty easy to sit back and second guess people’s predictions after the fact.  Why don’t you step up to the plate and make one of your own?


Gee SpooH -- you're as smart as your name -- why don't YOU tell me where my loyalties are?  Sometimes lives are complex & there's the team you want & the team you should root for!!   We can't all be simple.   And when did I second guess any predictions ?-- just pointed out that ONE of Blackhawks was dead wrong!!  No second guessing, just stating the facts!  I've not noticed that you have any constructive or informative opinions -- just kind of cranky anti-Whitworth posts.   From your clever name, we know you're a UPS fan.

As far as "others have tried" I'd like to point out that there is life outside of this forum -- you know, real people to interact with in real places -- you might try it.  So, yes I'm new to the forum, but hardly new to the NWC basketball world.  And, please don't suffer from that elitist view of we've been here longer so we know more!!  That is so anti-forum.

For Friday's game UPS/Willamette -- I'll say Willamette.  I expect it to be a fast paced, knuckle biting game with obnoxious fans & questionable calls, but the Bearcats will prevail   Have you seen them play recently?

Blackhawks4:  Get some sleep -- take a pill.  I cheer for whoever I want to, whenever I want to.  I'm impressed with some UPS players but their style of play seems ram & jam to the basket.  Rarely do you see any passing or assists -- it's kind of hotdog style.   I can't believe they don't get called more for offensive fouls -- they just run people down and most of the time get away with it.  Their team seemed more "team oriented" a couple of years ago, but not recently.

I think NWC bball fan is right about the tie breakers.  What about it Flegel or someone else that knows the ropes?

Here's what I expect:

Whitworth/Whitman -- Whitworth will win
Willamette/UPS -- Willamette will win
UPS/Linfield -- UPS will kill them
Willamette/George Fox -- will be close, but Willamette will win
Whitworth/Pacific -- Whitworth will win if they can see in the dark

I'm thinking it will be UPS that travels to Spokane and we all know how much fun that trip is!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on February 13, 2006, 04:56:42 am
blackhawk, I think everyone on this board would agree that Curtiss is a streaky shooter.  Im not trying to put the guy down, its just the truth. The definition of "streaky" is someone who will shoot really well for a streak of time, then he will go cold and shoot really awful for a time. A guy who personified streaky shooting was John Starks.  Some games that Curtiss has had this year: 4-20 and 0-10 from 3 in a win over riverside; 4-18 in a loss to WU; and 7-23 in a win over PLU. He has also had some very good games like 10-17 for 27 in a win at LC and 8-13 at PU.  He is a very solid player who is as tough as they come and any coach would love to have a player like him on his team. His natural talent though, doesn't measure up to a guy like Jeremy Cross or Williams, but he gets the most out of what he has.  ALSO, did I ever say that UPS was BAD? All I said is that there wasn't much difference between them and WW/WU.  All 3 are well-coached and very good.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 13, 2006, 10:35:51 am
bbaddict:  Ture, I have been somewhat of a "Lurker" on this board so perhaps it is time that I added my own (predictibly biased) analysis/predictions.  I will be the first to admit that UPS has been somewhat over-rated all year.  While it is obvious that Willamette and Whiworth have closed the gap, even UPS' wins have lacked the feeling of total domination that was present the past two seasons.  Williams has neutralized the loss of Cross for the most part, but the Loggers sorely miss Shelton and O'Donnel. 

That being said, I think that UPS has to remain the favorite until they lose a home game (in the midst of a three-year NWC undefeated streak).  They do control their own fate, and I have to believe Curis and McVey will be hard to deny on their home court. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on February 13, 2006, 10:55:44 am
Wow, I'm gone for a couple days, come back and the board has gone from blackhawks and bearcats throwing picks back and forth, to a bunch of people with hurt feeling feelings crying and yelling at each other...

bbaddict, we're all really happy that you have a life outside of this board, but we really don't care if nobody else in this world can guess where your loyalties lie. My question is this, who do you root for if whitworth and willamette play? or do you just sit back and wait for one to win, then say that's your team?

I do aggree that UPS by 20 over Willamette is a little much, but I still have them winning relatively easily—by 10-15. Bridgeland will have them as ready for this game as possible and the combination of the loss to Willamette and the embarassment at Whitworth should have the Loggers playing with a huge chip on their shoulder. They'll come out hard and keep it up the entire 40 minutes, I think they'll even make Nolan Richardson be proud, but the 'Cats have too much riding on the game too to lay down so they'll make a couple of runs but will come up short. In the end Curtiss and McVey have to get back to the tournament, they can't let the two routs by UWSP be their tourney legacy. To do that Curtiss needs to not turn ice cold again and McVey needs to step up and actually dominate a game instead of just putting up nice numbers.

As far as the NWC and NCAA tourney go, UPS will get the #1 seed, and will hold on in a tough game against whichever team hosts the first game (back to the homecourt advantage in the WU/WW series). In the tourney UPS is either going to lose their first game, or make it to the elite eight. There's no middle ground for this team. If they lose in the first it will be because Curtiss is ice cold, McVey gets in early foul trouble and the freshman play like freshman. As good ass Williams is and as much promise as pinkney and foster have, they are still freshman and have played like it in the losses this season. If UPS makes it to the Elite Eight it will be because Curtiss is shooting well, McVey puts up 16 & 10 and stays out of foul trouble, Williams doesn't have another 6 or 7 turnover game and pinkney and foster provide the combination of length and athleticism in the press that UPS didn't have the last two years against UWSP. This is definitely within the Logger's reach, but I don't see how they can make it to the final four. It's too much to ask of a team with three freshman averaging over 15 minutes a game, including the pg, and another getting over 10 a game.

If UPS loses in the conference tourney I don't see either WU or WW winning a game in the tourney. I say this not because I don't think either has the talent to win one, but because I can guarantee you that the NCAA selection committee won't do either team any favors with their draw. They definitely won't get a home game (if the committee is reluctant to fly teams into Tacoma or even LA, there's no way they'll do it for Salem or Spokane.) So they'll have to travel, probably to Wisconsin, and they'll have a macthup against a top 15 team at least, and probably a top 10 team, in there first game. The environment will be hostile and the refs will treat them like a bad high school JV team. (If you doubt the committee would do this, remember that #8 UPS had to play #9 Buena Vista last year in the second round. How the committee could feel that was fair to either team is beyond me, so it obviously had to do with geography and money.) I'm sure both teams would play well, but all of those factors combined with the difficulty of playing in your first tourney will be too much for them.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 13, 2006, 11:27:10 am
ds0097:  Believe me I wish the conflict I have was as simple as Whitworth v. Willamette.  Let's just say sometimes I cheer for excellence or pick the team I want to win that night.  What's the relevance anyway?  If I had to pick a team this year, I'd probably say Willamette.  They have my favorite coach & play well together as a team.  They have a couple of superstars In Olinger & Stuvland -- but mostly just a whole bench of solid players that can work together to get the job done.  FIfe has to be one of the best freshman in the conference.  He'll probably get better at defense when he's bigger.

As far as the NCAA not wanting to fly people into Salem or Spokane.  Hello.  Linfield Football has enjoyed home field advantage for years now & football teams are larger than bb teams!  Salem is not that far from Portland.  I'll grant that Spokane is out of the loop, they got screwed on that in 2003, but as I understand it, it was a lack of available facilities.   I don't agree with you that ONLY UPS can do anything at the NCAA tourney, but then, I've seem Whitworth & Willamette play this year?  Have you?  Or have you looked at the team stats on NWC site?  I'll agree that UPS dominated a couple of years ago, but this year they've squeaked by on a couple of games.

Spooh:   Thanks for your post.  I've never said that UPS isn't good -- just that I'm not rooting for them.  My only point is that they're not as good as their hype & they can be beaten.   And, I also said if they make it to the NCAA tourney, I'll root for them.
Title: Wow!
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 13, 2006, 01:03:07 pm
Gentlemen, its like a whole new board in here! Awesome!

1.  BHawks, UPS by 20 is a ballsy pick my friend...yes, I'm sure you're citing recent history in Tacoma (ugly, ugly losses for WU) but this is, in essence, the conference title game, and with two good teams, a twenty point blowout would be shocking...Explain to me how a UPS squad that was down double digits the entire time at Willamette (until the 1:00 mark of the 2nd half) is going to gameplan/play so much better that there is a 30 point turnaround? Remember, this is the same UPS team that just got ambushed by 20+ in Spokane, from tip to end...if you would have said UPS by 5, I'd give you that as a respectable prediction...
2. Whitworth folks: Is there room left on the Pirate bandwagon? BHawks does have a point...Where were these Pirate backers when it looked like they had no shot at the title/NCAA's?? They are clearly playing amazing basketball right now, and are sitting basically in 2nd place (as the loser of WU/UPS will fall to third), but let's stop short of declaring this a Whitwash...they will be on the road in the NWC title game (barring a total collapse from the 'cats or loggers), and much can be said for home court advantage (yes, they beat the bearcats in Salem, but the "stomping" you refer to had WU down 5 with 4 to go when Olinger fouls out...)
3. As far as NCAA tourney predicts goes, how can you jump from UPS getting smacked in the mouth by whitworth to "UPS will go to the Elite Eight"? While Logger fans have every right to be confident, this is borderline ridiculous...worry about the NWC tournament first...(by the way, I believe any of the three NWC top dogs could win a game, maybe two in the NCAA's)

My Own Crystal Ball:
WU beats the Loggers in Overtime, as McVey will foul out and the Bearcats will shoot in the high 50's to get the 96-92 victory...Willamette will follow with perhaps an equally as tough game in Newberg, where Fox's seniors will put on one hell of a show, but ultimately run out of gas, as WU wins the NWC with a 85-80 victory...Whitworth will survive Whitman (what else is new) and a surprisingly tough Boxer squad in FGrove (how can WU beat them by 35, then they beat LC by 31) to finish second, and will host the Loggers in Spokane in the semis...

I will say, that as a WU fan, my biggest fear is not Tacoma Friday, but Spokane/Tacoma looming as a possible mountain to climb the week after that (if WU can't win Friday)
Title: Sidenote
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 13, 2006, 01:08:46 pm
On another couple of notes:

1. No one has explained Karma yet, but I see my boy BHawks just keeps dropping...why?

2. Does PC and the crew know WU beat Linfield on Saturday? Their Region and overall record hasn't been updated...

3. Whoever thinks Bob Gailard should "hang it up" is out of their mind...sure, LC is a far cry from the glory days of the early portion of this decade, but they have some great young talent, and Gailard can flat out coach (he may rub some people the wrong way from what I've heard, but he has too many career wins to "hang it up" after a season where their post player (Magnuson I think is his name) didn't play, and they relied heavily on sophs and freshman)...

4. What the heck happened to Whitman's season? Started off well, then turned in a standard Whitman performance...chalk me up as being way off base on the Molitor coach of the year talk a month or two ago...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 13, 2006, 02:52:01 pm
Beacrats I thought you knew me better by now, would I ever pick UPS in a nail biter??

Gotta agree with bearcatsfan, any coach that plays for a D1 national chaqmpionship is allright in my book too.  L & C is always well prepared, despite the lack of talent as of late (although their younger kids look pretty decent).

If you think Willamette is coming into Tacoma and beating the Loggers friday on their homecourt you're crazy, not gonna happen.  Honestly, UPS at home and on the road are 2 different teams.  UPS had ww by 20 in the first half out here before almost choking it away.  And there is no way UPS loses on senior night. 

McVey took what 5 shots the past 2 games???  He played 15 min due to fouls at whitman and it sounded like whitworth flopped around like a dying fish on him.  Shame, was hoping someone would stand up and play defense like a man.

Whitworth is hot! But did they peak too early.  Look for them to fizzle out and lose in that first round playoff game at home!!! They embarassed UPS and beat willamette twice, I see them dropping first round.

I see Loggers winning a first round game in the NCAA (anything else would be a huge bonus) tourney but not ww or wu for similair reasons as cited by ds007. 

Curtiss is a scorer and he produces. He had a bad one at whitworth, but in all those games (even when he's off) he produces and puts up numbers.  When he was a freshmen he was a shooter, his game has developed and if you see him play, he goes to the rim first!

UPS doesn't need your karma. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: andrewf on February 13, 2006, 03:22:29 pm
Yeah I'm curious what karma is as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 13, 2006, 03:24:47 pm
Yeah I'm curious what karma is as well.

That certainly is a Frequently Asked Question (http://www.d3hoops.com/faq.php?category=Message%20board) in here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 13, 2006, 04:23:29 pm
Where in the world did you hear that Whitworth flopped around on McVey like a fish out of water.  I am not aware of one flop!!  Did he even have any offensive fouls?  The simple fact is........McVey is a great athlete and has a great D3 body.  But he lack any post moves what so ever.  He can catch the ball with his back to the basket, turn to his strong hand, jump way up in the air and shoot it.  That is his only move.  And if he is left open, he can dunk.  He is a pretty good presence on defense, but nothing special.  Definately one of the more dominating players in the league, but not close to player of the year caliber.  Born from Whitman, except as of late as the whole team has seemed to crumble, has out produced McVey.  You are full of bold predictions, and they are always in favor of UPS.  When someone else praises thier team, you shoot them down, and yet again talk up UPS.  You are the only person on this entire board that thinks UPS only looses when they play horrible and when they play decent, spank everyone else.  They just do not have dominant talent over the rest of the league.  However, I do think they will win the league and then lose to Whitworth by 10 + and your  beloved home court in the conference championship.  I bet you that the UPS coaching staff and players are very scared of Whiworth.  I can't wait to hear your reply.

I am not so sure that people are bandwagoners for begining to post.  I have liked and followed Whitworth all year, just because I was not posting on this site, does not mean I am now on the bandwagon.  Like mentioned, people do have lives outside of this site.  This is a fun place to discuss basketball, and most of the time the discussion is good.  It seems however there are some peope who act like they know a little more about the game than they do.  As far as home court advantage goes...  It is all mental.  Good teams go out there and play their game, regardless of the court.  By the end of the year, and experienced teams, should not let where the games is played be an excuse for a win or loss.  If McVey and Curtiss are as great as Blackhawk makes them out to be, as seniors, they should be able to win anywhere!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 13, 2006, 04:49:13 pm
I think the implication that BHawks, myself, and maybe pinecone "have no lives" because we post in this site is a stretch...we're simply excited about our teams, and, obviously like to argue about things...anyone posting in here, yet clinging to the "hey, I have a life buddy, you don't" is the kettle calling the teapot black argument...I think if you look at the stats of the other conferences' postings, MANY people across the nation must be suffering from a lack of "life."

Question:  What has been the key for Whitworth's resurgence lately?  8 game win streak is impressive, especially considering after the PLU loss they were looking lost...any thoughts from Pirate Nation?

DC-thanks for the karma read...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 13, 2006, 05:21:05 pm
Bearcat, I appreciate your message.  I guess I followed up on the "better things to do" comment because I was responding to Blackhawks comments about people just starting to post, and his continous insults about irrevevant information, when his is no better.  I think everyone has valuable stuff to say, and I think the arguing is great, but the personal attacks are childish.  With that said, I am not going to get into this conversation anymore, and strictly talk and argue basktetball.  That is the fun part.

Personally, I feel that Whitworth was just not playing to their potential earlier in the year.  All of thier losses have been a result of blowing a big lead and losing in the closing seconds, being up about 5 in the last minute or two and giving it away, or performing down to the level of the competition on a night after a tough loss in the closing seconds.  That is not to make excuses, but to say Whitworth did not know how to finish early in the year and no do.  They have 5 guys averaging 11 points or more (Williams might be a little lower now, but is leading the league in minutes played and assists) and have a 6th man who has lit UPS up for 50 points in two games.  They were stuggeling for a while to find their indentity.  I think now they believe in their Coach and eachother and they have been very dominant.  The two forward Pecht and Tucker are very difficult match up problems and their big man has been dominating the interior at times and has done a great job on the boards.  Young commands a lot of attention and really stretches the defense.  Williams is just solid every night.  Basically I think there play over the last month is a result of finally displaying what has been there all year.  With that said, I think Whitworth is still capable of being beat, but they would have to play bad.  Pecth is as good as any player in the country the last 8-10 games and his versatility and ability to score anyway possible has really propelled the Bucs.  The last two game of the season and playoffs should be exciting with the top three teams.  I look forward to watching some great basketball.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 13, 2006, 07:01:21 pm
Me too -- great basketball ahead!!  Isn't it great that there's 3 teams so close in the running that people are nervous?  Better than just one team shutting out everyone -- or at least it's more interesting.

By the way, I didn't say people don't have lives because they post here.  I was responding to a nasty comment about me being a new poster, so how could such & such possibly be.  I believe we got it straightened out.

So -- let's talk about basketball.  What is Karma?  Do we get to vote on it?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 13, 2006, 09:45:26 pm
"I am not aware of one flop!!  Did he even have any offensive fouls?"

McVey's very first foul was offensive, it was a 1-on-1 post move from the block where the defender went down.  Come'on we all know that one.

"You are full of bold predictions, and they are always in favor of UPS."

Yes.

"You are the only person on this entire board that thinks UPS only looses when they play horrible and when they play decent, spank everyone else."

Never said anything of the sort.

"lose to Whitworth by 10 + and your  beloved home court in the conference championship"

Not at home.  Just promise you'll gimme a "Go Loggers" when your boys are eliminated

"I bet you that the UPS coaching staff and players are very scared of Whiworth."

LOL.  Ahhhhhhh...

"experienced teams, should not let where the games is played be an excuse for a win or loss"

Seems to me home court advantage has been big part of top three teams w's and l' this year

"his continous insults about irrevevant information"

Scroll back, point to one.

"but the personal attacks are childish"

Point to one

"Pecth is as good as any player in the country the last 8-10 games"

He's played well as of late and has made himself a NWC POTY candidate, but maybe you should see some of the players on the other side and in the midwest first... he's nowhere near.

And i have a life...i keep myself occupied...just yesterday i read every single post anyone from any conference has ever made on this board
 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 13, 2006, 09:54:04 pm
bearcatsfan...we've has our differences, but you're the only one i trust on this (and spooh but hes been in and out, but at least here for the season)...

if it was just you and me, what would you give me for karma...

I'd give you 100 karma points ;)...just as long as you don't disagree with the powers that be
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 14, 2006, 01:45:31 am
Bearcats, to answer your earlier question about the key to Whitworth's streak - I think it comes down to a simple match-up advantage.  The Pirates are really the only team in the league with two true forwards playing alongside a post.  Nearly every other NWC team starts a three-guard lineup.  With Pecht starting at small forward, he has had a huge match-up advantage that the Pirates have been able to take advantage of.

BH4 - I am agreeing with you for like the third time in the last week.  Sheesh, what's the world coming to?  Actually you are very correct that Whitworth needs to guard againt peaking early.  The last four weeks have been a steady build in intensity - first they had to come off of the Tacoma trip disaster by beating a hot Whitman team, the next week was about revenge against the giveaway at George Fox, the next week was a big win at Willamette, followed finally by a statement win over UPS.  This week could be ripe for a let down if the players and coaches aren't careful. If it wasn't the last week of the season and the playoffs so close, I think the danger would be greater.

But as it is, if Whitworth wins twice this week, the worst they do is host the first round playoff game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 14, 2006, 01:51:41 am
How do you know he is no where near the best (Pecht) Have you seen all these team play?  I have seen quite a few of them play!!  And will say he is in the top of the nation for D3 athletes.  I did not say he was the best, but his play as of late is right up there!  His abilities that he brings to the court each night are unlike any player in the conference.  He is the only player that is truly unguardable.  If his numbers are not up on a given night is because he did not get the touches, or he guarded himself.  I don't see how you cannot see that.  Especially if you are the talent evaluater that you say you are.  You responded just how I thought you would?  Are you really that conceited or are you just having fun on the board?  I hope it is the second of the two!  Mark my words.....Whitworth will not lose to UPS if they get the chance to play them, regardless of the court.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 14, 2006, 01:57:25 am
I almost forgot.  McVey had one foul the entire night against Whitworth.  So if Whitworth was doing all this flopping, it actually only happened one time, if any.  Foul trouble was not the issue.  He just simply got out played.  His first two shots were sent right back at him.  In fact, if anything the refs were putting him on the line.  They were rewarding him for catching the ball, turning to his right hand, dipping his shoulder, and jumping up in the air while throwing the ball in the direction of the rim.  If not for that he would have been held to about 4-6 points.  Whitworth spent the game with there 4 and 5 in fould trouble the entire night.  They barely played 40 minutes between the two of them.  But they did both finish 6-6 from the floor. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2006, 02:29:16 am
Somebody else please talk some sense into this little kid...

#1:  Pecht has played excellent as of late and (of all people to say this, me) has made himself a legitimate POTY in the NWC.  But for god's sake...he is nowhere near (even of late)the best players in the country at this level.  There is nobody right now in the NWC that deserves that distinction.  The NWC is down as of late.  There are players that do what he does but are bigger, stronger, more athletic, and on quality nationally ranked teams.  Bearcats, pinecone-- (I realize it's your guy but are we gonna put him at a level with depew), maybe even pat coleman????  Somebody?  I've tried.

#2:  You responded to 2 of my rebuttals and are dead wrong on one of them (Pecht- and I hope others will speak the truth on this also)  and proved my point on the other.  Anything else???

#3:  When did I say I was a "talent evaluator?"  In fact, I believe bearcats fan and I joked about our lack of credibility in this area earlier in the year.  That was probably before the bandwagon picked you up though. 

You can't just make stuff up and say that people said it on the board because we'll call you on it. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 14, 2006, 03:46:36 am
blackhawks4:   You seem concerned about the negative karma thing -- so here's a suggestion.  Disagree with posts without personal put-downs.  And give up on the bandwagon thing -- you should encourage new people to contribute to the forum because it gives you someone to jaw with besides bearcats & pinecone.
Title: Re: Sidenote
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2006, 04:45:51 am
2. Does PC and the crew know WU beat Linfield on Saturday? Their Region and overall record hasn't been updated...

No. If neither school logs in and posts the score then the region and overall record doesn't get updated.

There are 800 Division III basketball programs. We have zero full-time employees. That's why we rely on the schools to post the scores. Since that only takes 60 seconds a score that doesn't seem much to ask.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 14, 2006, 10:17:25 am
How do you know he is no where near the best (Pecht) Have you seen all these team play?  I have seen quite a few of them play!!  And will say he is in the top of the nation for D3 athletes.  I did not say he was the best, but his play as of late is right up there!  His abilities that he brings to the court each night are unlike any player in the conference. 

bball, I'm afraid you are going to have to do some name-dropping if you want to compare Pecht to the best in D3.  Who are these great teams/players you have seen?  Oh please, please tell me you're talking about OXY!

Even IF Pecht was regarded as having the best skill set in the conference, this doesnt necessarily mean he would stack up against guys from around the country.  As much as we all love the NWC, there's no disputing the fact that the league does not traditionally compare well against the likes of the WIAC, OAC, etc.  A player capable of dominating in these conferences would have an absolute field day on most nights in the NWC (and I'm not talking about the kind of numbers Pecht has put up recently).
Title: Nationwide
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 14, 2006, 10:46:52 am
Pecht is an excellent player in the NWC...which, traditionally, would put him somewhere in the category of MAYBE 4th team/HM All-AMERICAN in D3...you have to remember the sheer size of, say, the WIAC schools, and the ability to recruit better players to those size schools...guys like Devean George (LA Lakers, three WC rings) and Horace Jenkins (Pistons) make first team, and no one in the NWC is close to those type of guys...heck, I bet BHawks himself would tell you tales of the guys Stevens Point trotted out in Tacoma a few years ago...ballers...if you look back thru this sites list of All-Americans, you have exactly TWO NWC players, Depew and Scott Davis of LC who made 2nd and 4th teams respectively...is Pecht on their level? Scott Davis, who I saw play 3 times, is better than Pecht, and while Depew may have not been as athletic, you cannot argue with his numbers and put Pecht anywhere near him yet.  BHawks is right on this....no way Pecht is on a NATIONAL level (definately a first teamer in the NWC however.)

Pinecone, I think you nailed the Whitworth thing...for whatever reason, the pirates have pummeled smaller lineups, and haven't had to deal with the repercussions of their bigs guarding smalls...

BHawks gets a 4 in Karma from me...sure he's obnoxious occasionally, but honestly, would this site have any life at all if he wasn't on here?

PC...was not implying you were not doing your job...simply asking the question, and no, it is not too much to ask...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2006, 03:18:14 pm
A little obnoxious?---that's all, you like me don't you bearcats?..Hey we still got room for you on the Logger bandwagon...Yeah, it starts up friday night in tacoma, and it doesn't even have to travel anywhere until NCAA tourney time.  You can't sit shotgun though, that's reserved for BBall Addict when his team is gone.  Sorry NWC Bball fan, you got the back seat...It's illegal for your car seat up front, and my car only has the safety locks in the back.

Seriously, I still think POTY goes to winner of nwc...curtiss, olinger, or (now) pecht...I know it doesn't matter this year, but curtiss did get snubbed last year.  All this ww talk has made me forget about wu, who is in town this weekend for the most important game of the year! 

If UPS is at home the rest of the way...they win
If they go to wu....uuuuhhhhh
If wu or ups go to ww, i think ww's in trouble...They embarrassed ups and have beat wu twice...although i pick ww over wu, if i'm a betting man i'm not liking ww's odds of beating wu 3 times and definately not ups 2 out of 3...you definately cant count on your 6th man having another big one...rule of percentages
if ww goes to wu: i still say ww, with slight hesitation

BBall addict: 

"Disagree with posts without personal put-downs."

I already asked your boy NWCBball fan show me one that i've made in all 80 posts.  The closest I've come is jawing with NWC Bball fan about being a little kid...Just one.

And you didn't catch the sarcasm in the karma thing huh?  Ok... I could care less about karma, and have said my opinion no matter who disagrees.  Who cares about karma when you're a second stringer! Pretty soon I'm gonna have some karma power and I'm takin the man down.  I know I dont say much, but boy I do like to read my own posts.

Watch it bearcats, steppin on pc's toes like that....you're gonna end up with karma like me...then the whitworth guys will report you to the moderator.
Title: Re: Nationwide
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2006, 03:29:30 pm
PC...was not implying you were not doing your job...simply asking the question, and no, it is not too much to ask...

No problem -- I didn't take it as an attack, just answering your question.
Title: UPS vs. WU
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 14, 2006, 04:37:21 pm
BHawks:  Keys to the game Friday.
Whitworth fans: Any hesitation about tonights game in Walla Walla? You guys seem to own Whitman, but they're a decent team at home...also, you guys got some love with the front page picture of Pecht on d3hoops

My Keys to the Game:
1. Tempo: Willamette successfully kept the game around their pace in Salem (77-68 is not a favorable scoring night for UPS)...but the last few times in Tacoma, it looks like the Loggers have swarmed them
2.Conversion:Can Willamette shoot in the high 50s to 60s range and make UPS pay for pressing them...can UPS turn WU turnovers into a run (8-0 here, 12-3 there) and pull away early?
3.Fouls:  Can WU not only get McVey in trouble, but can they get to the bonus early in each half to slow the pace and get free points...can UPS stay out of the bonus and continue to play at their reckless pace, with McVey and Curtiss in the game.
4. Atmosphere:  BHawks, apart from yourself, are Logger fans going to show up to this game? WU has packed Cone Fieldhouse, and it sounds like Whitworth has been putting butts in the seats...can you guys answer the bell?  The louder the better for UPS, and the smaller the crowd, the better for WU.

Pinecone or bball or NWC: Does whitworth want to see UPS or WU in the tourney?  Would they rather go to Tacoma or Salem? (obviously they want to be in Spokane, but they'd need one of the those two to tank both games this weekend)...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 14, 2006, 06:30:23 pm
Bearcats: 

I think the logger offense will be firing on all cylinders, especially with a large crowd.  If they're playing well offensively, wu will have a lot of pressure to match them offensively to stay in the game.  I don't think tempo is that big of an issue.  The loggers get better each year at playing lower scoring games. 

What this game comes down to in my opinion is Willamette's field goal percentage.  You're dead on with your conversions point.  If WU get layups, easy buckets, and open 3's all night (55-60% fg), and don't turn the ball over 30 times in the press, the loggers are in for a loooooong night.  If the loggers limit will. to around 50% from the field and force an avg. amount of to's I think UPS wins this hands down.  UPS is significantly better at home...which is why they need that home court.

Loggers can't give up layups all night...it's a killer, especially if we are forced to work hard for ours on "o," and then give them away in the press.

Loggers also can't let olinger and others tee up open 3's all night.  Interested to see olinger play...haven't yet. 

Is it just me or did the POTY ballots narrow down to 2, Pecht and Curtiss.  And i believe those are casted this week.   

Good to see nwc on front page.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 14, 2006, 07:35:58 pm
bbadict, nwcbbfan - the surest sign of a newbie on this board is someone who takes him (or her) self too seriously.  If you get offended by what someone says about you on this board, then you are taking yourself too seriously.  How can someone truly insult you if they don't even know you?

Now it might be double standard, but I did respond to what I thought was a cheap shot at the NWC SID.  But all the other stuff was just banter.

As far as new folks showing up here when their teams do well, that is just the nature of these boards.  UPS was never heard from at all before 2004.  When L&C is doing well, you hear from more Pioneers on this board.  Same thing with George Fox last year.  Its a free country and no one has to prove themselves first before they decide to join the conversation.

Tough game for the Pirates tonight.  Whitman has two big guys who minimize the match-up advantage on the front line.  The Missionaries played Whitworth tough in Spokane this year, and I know those seniors will not want to go out without a win against Whitworth.

BH4, I think the WU-UPS game will be a close one.  In my opinion, UPS does not have the intimidation factor this year that they had in the last two.  Don't know if its because they have not posted the kind of blowouts this year they were known for the last two years, or if the NWC coaches are finally responding to the UPS game plan. 

Bearcats - What was interesting to me is that Whitworth beat UPS without trying to slow the game down.  In the previous two years (at least in Spokane), the Pirates tried to control the tempo.  And though they played close, they didn't win.  But this year they went back and forth in both games.  They lost by only one in Tacoma and won by 24 in Spokane.  Maybe teams have been too focused on slowing the game down against UPS?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 15, 2006, 12:36:00 am
Just for the record -- being offended & recognizing offensive behavior are NOT the same thing!  I was just commenting on someone's karma issue.   And Bhawks4 -- I'll be honored to ride shotgun with you, if you'll agree to ride in the trunk if the bearcats win.  Deal?

Did anyone see the picture/article about Whitworth being a possible Pool c on the front page of this website?  Just curious.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 15, 2006, 12:52:23 am
Any news on the Whitworth/Whitman game tonight? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 15, 2006, 01:41:03 am
Whitworth 88, Whitman 74

Box score (http://www.whitman.edu/athletics/sport_texts/game23-mbb06.html)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 15, 2006, 10:01:44 am
Can only bring up Glory Days...

http://www.auburnjournal.com/articles/2006/02/03/sports/local_sports/02sierra.txt

Jeffrey Weidel, Gold Country News Service
Auburn, Calif.

"He was driven, intense, possessing a competitive nature so great he
could motivate an entire team just with his actions. Yet glancing back
on his stellar basketball career at Sierra College, Gary Donnell would
rather have other people discuss his immense inner drive."

"After two years at Sierra, there were choices again for Donnell, who
opted out of a letter-of-intent to Gonzaga University and decided on
Linfield College, a powerful NAIA college in McMinnville, Ore.
Linfield coach Ted Wilson heard about the exploits of Donnell on
practically every trip to Roseville while visiting his longtime friend
George Sargent."

"I worked at the Texaco station (at Keehner Avenue and Douglas
Boulevard) near my house and Ted used to fill up his Orange
Thunderbird there," Donnell said. "He was always talking to me about
Linfield. I decided not to go to Gonzaga and just showed up at the
Linfield campus one day and he got me in."


Title: Rankings
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 16, 2006, 11:15:39 am
Huge night last night in the West Region, as OXY falls at Redlands (126-120) and Buena Vista knocks off Wartburg in the IIAC, meaning 2 West Region ranked teams go down in the same evening (the #1 and #4 respectively), both to opponents with sub .500 win% in the Region...

That being said, I cannot say I am surprised that WU fell out of the rankings this week...despite their now having the best record in region games in the West, and owning a victory over UPS (the #3 team) in the region, I knew their QOWI was very low in comparison to some other teams (the Linfields, PLU's, and Whitman's being below average this season has hurt both WU and UPS's Q rating)...While i obviously believe the 'Cats should be in the top 6 at least of the West, they have no better stage than Friday to go out and earn that recognition...

Getting close to gametime Friday night...trying to find a way to get up there with some other 90s Bearcats like myself...Bhawks, I'm sure you're heated over the region rankings this week...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 16, 2006, 05:40:38 pm
Hard to be upset or argue about regional rankings when loggers get slaughtered by 30 in spokane.  Doesn't matter...all it comes down to is this weekend.  Bearcats...what should i expect from wu? you saw last game.  You guys run the flex at all or slow it down and force the loggers to guard in half court for extended period of time? hope you guys make it down...dont bring too many though

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2006, 03:11:40 am
Shame that the best team in conference isn't playing Friday night.

Loser of the game falls to third in conference, winner gets to hope the loser upsets WW at WW. 

What a country, I mean conference.

WW looks to have come together as a team and is playing with confidence.

Just to explain what i see....

9 game win streak in conference looking at 10 after Sat, a win at WU that WU knew they needed, a destruction of  (no 3's no way) UPS at home.  No one wants to face Pirates right now.

Good luck to the winner and loser of Fridays game in conference tourney, they will need it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 17, 2006, 10:10:10 am
Tie-breakers?  I thought we had this figured out.  The Tribune seems to think that a UPS/Whitworth tie would go in favor of the Loggers . . .

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/colleges/ups/story/5531613p-4981877c.html
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 17, 2006, 10:21:36 am
Based on the conference tie-breaking procedures, I've got to believe the TNT is wrong . . . 

http://www.nwcsports.com/information/governance/bkbprocedures8-05.pdf

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Bilk on February 17, 2006, 10:23:47 am
Is there a forum that discusses Northwest Conference sports not found on D3sports.com?
Title: TieBreak
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 17, 2006, 11:22:47 am
WU's website also states that the loser of this game, UPS or Willamette, will fall behind WW, as they hold the 2-0 sweep of the Bearcats, and are 3-1 vs. the other two, while UPS would be just 1-3 if they fall at home tonight...


BHawks, I don't see the Bearcats running much flex...in the last game they broke the press, got a lot of easy baskets, and spread UPS out in the half court...the 2nd half was much more difficult to score, as WU got a bit conservative, and UPS was very effective in the half court with their pressure...I think WU will have to take lay-ups when they're there...Whitworth didn't seem to pull back too much in their attacking of UPS pressure, and WU should follow the blueprint...that being said, UPS is bound to shoot better at home, so I think the score will be a little higher than last time.  Bearcats 84, Loggers 80.

I doubt WU or UPS are "shaking in their boots" at the thought of the Pirates Mr. 1903...respect the way their playing, of course, but I'd imagine both teams would love another crack at Coach Hayford's team...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 17, 2006, 01:09:37 pm
Shame that the best team in conference isn't playing Friday night.

Strictly based on W/L for the season, the best TWO teams in NWC are playing Friday night -- each other.  You can bet that Hayford (& maybe some of the team) will be there watching.   Just like Bridgeland & the gang was in Portland on February 4th at the games.

I think I agree with Spooh on the tie breaker thing.   Wow - that must be what's causing this Arctic freeze thing!!  Whoever loses tonight will be playing in Spokane, assuming that Whitworth wins at Pacific.  (Not always easy unless you bring your night goggles.)  Whitworth is not impossible to beat at home --  I remember George Fox beating them in the Fieldhouse & that was when Fox lived at the bottom of the conference.

So -- it's all over but the shouting -- or the crying!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 17, 2006, 01:10:15 pm
Sorry I goofed that up -- chalk it up on being a newbie!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 18, 2006, 01:34:25 am
Sorry bearcatsfan...I was off by 5 on my prediction.  Loggers by 25 tonight.  Quite the tank job huh?  I'll tell you this much, not only are we better, but as muhammed ali would say...we're prettier!!!!!! Good lord.

I'm really done being polite and chummy on the board.   Curtiss embarrased Olinger tonight (they went head up all night).  I almost felt bad for John.  Curtiss torched him.  Olinger for COTY???? Get outta here.  i don't even wanna hear it. 

Loggers win conference!  Again...Go ahead, haters, give your COTY to James.   I don't wanna hear it...Loggers 3 straight NWC championships, but bridgeland gets what 1 nwc coty?  He built this program in what, 5 years?  Gordie's only been there for 80 years.  But he does more with less talent.  Go get some talent.  There's more to a season than october through march...oh wait nobody else in the nwc ever plays in march...i mean february 

And give your poty to pecht... Skip we all know you don't like curtiss. i would imagine hayford through his vote away (which he should if he's lookin out for his boy).  harshman hasn't done anything at plu so im sure he threw his to pecht to downplay the success of ups.

Its fine..everybody did it last year right??? George fox!  Don't give curtiss or bridgeland the respect they deserve.  But i guarantee you i'll be the one on the board talkin' in a week.   I don't care how hot ww is.

Bandwagon boys... i don't wanna hear your guarantees or your "mark my word"...because i will, and you won't respond next saturady night, when i'm here talkin about the loggers and the tourney.

You get the loggers at home and your in trouble.

Curtiss a streaky shooter??? Don't wanna hear it.  He's a scorer.  Haven't seen stats, but how many 3's did he shoot tonight.   SCORER, producer, leader.

Props to coach James...wow, every year seems to do a lot with what he's got.

Crowd was pretty good, down a little form the past.  Best chant..."John needs a shower."

You know, I said all along i disliked the conference tournamnet.  This year though, with ww turning it on so late...I think it's great!  Let's get ww out here, and let's have a battle for the automatic bid to the big dance!  Shoot, let's have the best team from the nwc go....I know the loggers already proved they were the best through a 16 game season, but you know what, the pirates are hot, and im all for a little competition...Let's see who the best in the nwc is...head to head saturday night in the fieldhouse...sorry wu you got no chaqnce out in spokane.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 18, 2006, 01:56:53 am
Karma keeps droppin huh????   

Pat coleman is so cool.

I know its not as important with tight playoff race, but what the nwc all conference team should be...

POTY: Curtiss
COTY: Bridgeland
pecht
olinger
mcvey
born
scmick

What it will be...

POTY:  pecht
COTY: James
curtiss
olinger
mcvey
born
schmick

NWhoops1903, did you really go through the whole registration thing for 1 week?  Waste of time.

BBal addict:: You still got shotgun.

Oxy the best team in the region lost???? No way!  To a good team too, huh...Didn't see that coming.

bearcats...hate to be a knitpicker..but you forgot one off of your all american list...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2006, 02:04:13 am
Pat coleman is so cool.

I'm not the one smiting you, but ok, whatever. :)

Anyone with more than 200 posts can add to or take away from a poster's karma.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 18, 2006, 02:12:03 am
Certainly one night doesn’t make a POTY, but BHawks is right that Curtis vs Olinger wasn’t a contest tonight.  An uninformed  observer might even have had a hard time identifying Olinger as WU's best player.  However, it wasn’t a bad night by Olinger that determined this game.  Curtis and McVey set the tone with an intensity that the Bearcats simply couldn’t match.  Willamette was never comfortable with the Loggers D and found a way to travel or fumble away the few easy looks they got when they broke the press.  Either WW or WU will have a nearly impossible time beating UPS in Tacoma if the Loggers turn in a remotely similar effort.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2006, 05:00:32 am
Nice win for UPS, but who is really surprised.  Not me.  UPS is always tough at home and WU sounded helpless or even worse pathetic.  I guess they thought McVey couldnt' beat them...they we're wrong.  McVey played big
and they paid the price for trying to man him.

Finally WU can feel good about those pioneer, missionary and boxer victories but they haven't won a game that mattered since they beat UPS.  Nice season..good record...good night WU.  I predict WW handles WU in Spokane despite a spirited effort that runs out of steam mid second half.  WW 95   WU 81

Congrats to Loggers on a hard fought conference reg season title.  3 in a row is quite impressive EB should get COTY for winning conference..end of story.

POTY...hmm..let's see...leading scorer....most POTW awards....is this voted on after conf. tourney?  IF WW wins tourney Pecht, if UPS wins I still say Pecht...haha  GL LP!

If Pirates lose Sat. to Pacific I will be amazed and amazingly wrong but I will drive all the way to WU to watch them make history by beating WU 3 times in one season.

Now to respond to you regs...never even saw the forum until last week so get used to my Pirate posts.

Bearcatsfan3 quotes a ghost saying something about "shaking in boots"...I said and I quote " No one wants to face Pirates right now."  And I stand by it.  UPS would love to see WU come back to get McVey'd again. Great game Big Log.  Check your own boots bearcat and learn when and when not to use quotation marks.

No reason to argue with bbaddict cause statistically he is right...but we all KNOW, so am I..especially after WU's egg Friday.  Didn't WW lose at UPS by 1 point and had a final shot that missed to win that game? That's not what I heard at the end of tonight's game.

I raise my glass to NWC HOOPS...GL to all and may the best team win the tourney.




Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 18, 2006, 05:27:57 am
Who are we kidding?  Did we watch the same game?  The guys in stripes should've been wearing Loggers unis!  UPS traveled so much they should get frequent flyer points & they hammered Olinger & Stuvland (and anyone else) anytime they got near the hoop -- and hardly ever got a foul call.  Traveling got called several times on Mansfield & Erickson, however.  And, what did those refs have against our Freshman Fife?  He looked crosseyed at someone & got a foul.  Of course UPS won by 25 -- actually it should've been 40 with the guys in white, whoops I mean stripes on their side.  What can you expect in Tacoma?

I'll ride shotgun -- but only if you actually finish the job.  The conference tourney determines the champion -- not the regular season win/loss.  So, this week is about position & home court advantage, but next week is about winning the conference.  We'll talk then!!  It ain't over ....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 18, 2006, 11:39:27 am
I thought it might not be long before a WU fan cried "foul" about this game.  No UPS fan has ever disputed the fact that the Loggers push, pull, and hold in any effort to turn you over or get to a loose ball.  It has become a trademark of the Logger's run over the past three years.  I thought the refs established early that they would not call every ticky-tack foul in the back court, but would reward teams if they forced the action and took the ball to the hoop.  Certainly, this plays right into the Loggers style, but most players/coaches will tell you that all they want from refs is consistency and WU never adjusted.

As for your conspiracy theory . . .


Fouls

WU - 27
UPS - 27


FT Attempts
WU - 34
UPS - 40
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 18, 2006, 12:09:13 pm
Of course the stats bear out your story -- but I was there!!  The stats don't show traveling calls or lack thereof.  Your Antwan rolls around the floor with the ball & they get to call a timeout or he passes it -- no travel?  And WU's guys would head to the basket with 2 or 3 players all over them -- no foul, but at the other end, we'd get what you so kindly refer to as a ticky tacky foul.  The other stat that never shows up is when the color blind refs gives possession to the team who knocked it out. 

OK, OK -- I'll take some cheese with my whine!!  WU had an "off" night & the Loggers played well.  But, it still isn't over, so don't start cheering about the Conference Championship.  Regular season just gets you there -- you still have to win it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 18, 2006, 01:57:11 pm
BHawks: 

Are you really going to let this guy ride shotgun?  Might be a long ride to Wisconsin with him in your ear.


bbaddict: 


Another loss might not affect the standings, but I think you're walking into a trap game tonight.  Fox has been playing better recently and something tells me Schmick is going out in a blaze of glory with three fingers held high. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 18, 2006, 03:21:46 pm
The game was officiated fine. Regardless, in a 25 point blowout the officials don't have much to do with it.  And it seemed every bit of that 25. 

Bottom line:

Willamette shoots 42% and turns the ball over 25 times.

McVey 30 and 15 on the biggest night of the season.  Curtiss 21 and 8 assists?! 6 boards.  What about Jason Foster...16 off the bench, hittin the floor hard and boardin.

Hope loggers put it away early tonight.

Whitworth:  Continue to flop on McVey next week.  It's your only chance of stopping him (you saw what happened when willamette tried to stop him)-- if he stays out of foul trouble.

Bearcatsfan...hell of a job by James this year, but I just don't see how you guys can win @ ww...talentwise it just seems to me that you're overmatched.  Do you agree?   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 18, 2006, 04:17:33 pm
Bhawks:  Of course it was fine in your neutral position of what was.   Wouldn't expect that you would have noticed any problems with the stripes.  Did they really shoot 42%?  That's amazing with all the bodies hanging on them and smacking at them.  Better than I thought.  It'd be really fun if Linfield was the spoiler tonight, but it's probably not going to happen.   Yeah --- the 25 turnovers are a reflection of the traveling calls, and blind ref moments that I was talking about.  It's OK -- that one's on the books.  It's just not over yet.

Spooh:  WU knows that Fox is a tough place to play, but Schmick isn't as great as he imagines himself.  That #24 (Satern) is the one to worry about & Szalay on the boards.  Pretty sure the Bearcats will win it tonight.   GFU will definitely put up a fight.

Could be interesting night for Whitworth though -- playing Pacific in their dark gym.  Pacific beat Whitman last night & Whitworth hasn't played since Tuesday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 18, 2006, 06:34:37 pm
You're ridiculous.  It was a 25 point blowout!  Why are you wasting space complaining about the refs?  It was 30 with a minute to go and our go-to-guys out.   

Bball Addict:  It is over.  WW or WU will not beat UPS in Tacoma.  It's over.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 18, 2006, 06:51:57 pm
Look at the stats for the Whitworth/UPS game at Spokane!!! McVey had one foul!!  So where was all this flopping taking place??  Tell me please!!  That is such a stupid comment.  Get over it!!  McVey did have his first two shots shoved back in his face.  Is that your definition of a flop? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 18, 2006, 11:43:48 pm
is it really 46-15?  loggers have put it together...see you saturday whitworth
Title: Stop the Madness
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 21, 2006, 10:37:25 am
#1: I knew it was a mistake to wait until work today to post again...I leave, come back, and a) "It's all over" and b) I don't know how to use quotation marks (my fault nwhoops, I was implying that you're ridiculous post about UPS/WU loser fearing whitworth was [insert synonym for stupid] and [insert synonym for outrageous], and by using the made up quotation, was summarizing your claim with an equally poor phrase...

#2: As for the game, I watched in horror from the upper level of Memorial Fieldhouse as WU turned in a pitiful performance...and UPS played emotionally and physically inspired. The Bearcats were undone by McVey and Curtiss' energy level, and their own lack of toughness with the ball (contrary to fellow fan bbadict's claim, WU was simply too soft with the ball, and failed to be tough around the rim)...were there some questionable calls? Absolutely, but there always are, and this game was not decided by officiating...

#3: BHawks, you've got reason to feel confident, but I'm sure you're not suggesting that one below average performance defines a player's season...if so, then we'd better drop Curtiss from the POY and 1st team race, because Chase tanked at Whitworth and at Willamette during the season (7-29 with 7 turnovers in the two games)...Olinger was 5-8 friday, but had 5 turnovers...a poor game for him, but do you really want to just throw the "torch" around? "I don't even want to hear it."

#4: Willamette rebounded nicely with a tough win at a GFox team that was playing on senior night, with a group of seniors who had never beaten Willamette in their career...a 79-76 victory.

#5: WU at Whitworth...not ideal travel for Willamette this week, facing a Spokane/Tacoma doubleheader...apparently they should just save themselves the trouble, and let Whitworth/UPS meet in Tacoma...what a joke...check your history nwhoops...2002, WU defeats Whitworth twice in the regular season, only to have Pirates dance on their face in Salem in conference tourney...It is tough to beat someone 3 times in a season...

Title: ALL-NWC
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 21, 2006, 10:44:50 am
BHawks, you can calm down a bit

EB gets Coach of the Year (deserving)

But, Pecht gets POY...not a bad choice, but I'm not sure a team that wins its 3rd Conference title in a row doesn't deserve to have the POY, especially when it has two worthy candidates...

OXY loses the SCIAC to CMS, does that mean the NWC champ will host an early round game?

Congrats to Olinger and Stuvland on their 1st team honors as well...

Pinecone, where are you? I'd much rather listen to you explain to me how Whitworth's gameplan or execution will beat WU again, than read through nwhoops' "helpless" and "pathetic" rants (I wonder if those quotes work)...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 21, 2006, 11:51:38 am
OK - OK, WU had a pathetic game at UPS last Friday, but it's not going to happen again.  They've beat Linfield & GFU on their senior nights, but it wasn't happening with UPS, which by the way, wasn't Senior Night -- it was Player night!  Who has those?

Don't think it matters how the team finishes for the POY or for All Conference teams -- I think they just go on stats.  Pecht deserves it -- probably a couple of others do too, it was probably close.  What I don't understand is how McVey beat Szalay in the Post position.  That position should be about blocks & rebounding, not scoring.  And Szalay can't be beat in those areas.  He got ripped off.

I'm pretty sure that Whitworth is more worried about WU than UPS.  Beating a team 3 times in a season will be tough.  And it definitely isn't over!  Thanks bearcats for backing me up on that!  Let's not forget that both WU & Whitworth have beaten UPS this season -- not like previous years when they seemed unstoppable. 

So -- is there snow in Spokane?  Go Bearcats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 21, 2006, 12:49:31 pm
No...definitely not, one game doesn't define a season.  But on the other hand, this was a highly anticipated one-on-one matchup, in the biggest game of the year for the conference championship.  And on Friday night, Cutriss lit Olinger up.

At least thankful bearcats is back for some intelligent viewpoints on friday night's game.

I got whitworth too thursday night.  I realize it would be 3 times in a season, but it is in spokane, against a more talented team, that is very hot.

Watch out for UPS though.  Did they finally put it together witha blowout win a against wu and then destroying linfield.  UPS hasn't done that all year!

Pecht was deserving, but I don't think more so than curtiss.  I agree with bearcats when he says, "I'm not sure a team that wins its 3rd Conference title in a row doesn't deserve to have the POY, especially when it has two worthy candidates..."

"What I don't understand is how McVey beat Szalay in the Post position.  That position should be about blocks & rebounding, not scoring.  And Szalay can't be beat in those areas.  He got ripped off."

?????????????????????Bearcats is this worth responding to???  Fine, addict you take dikembe, ill take shaq.  Right, dikembe boards and blocks shots? 

Surprises..George Tucker-top guy 2nd team, nobody even mentioned him...
Wells...2nd team, well deserving
Stuvland-first team...with teams success he deserved it
 


Title: All-NWC
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 21, 2006, 01:15:52 pm
While I'm not going to throw my guy bbaddict completely under the bus (can't do that to a loyal Bearcat fan), I will guess that the Szalay thing must of been put out there just to get BHawks to put his head thru a wall...McVey vs. Szalay (from the three games I've seen, two vs. UPS and one vs. GFox) is NOT CLOSE...Szalay is a fine player who does the board work, but McVey is in another class athletically, and offensively...

It might be more along the lines of Shaq vs. Rik Smits...

Found it interesting that WU only got 2 players on the list, while Fox and Whitman (who WU swept, and finished way above in the standings) got three a piece...now, I'm not saying guys like Ricker and HWeller weren't deserving of a HM, but Luchterhand had a nice year for WU as well...but, these things are often a matter of who even gets nominated, which coach gets along with another, who wants to help their own guys by voting for other guys, etc...

The real prize is decided Thursday and Saturday...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 21, 2006, 02:52:55 pm
ouch UPS gets slapped in the face losing the POY award after winning the conference title again. McVey is better the Szalay, scott is tough and a hard worker, but not better than McVey. and will people stop reffering to how so and so beat Linfield, thats not saying much, we are no better than a JV team this year.     
UPS have any immediate impact recruits coming in next year? they may have a tougher time defending the championship next year. they have two players who will/could be good, williams & pickney, but other than that they have a lot of role players better suited to come off the bench. the talent of each UPS team has decreased since the first season they won the conference title, can bridgeland restock?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2006, 03:44:44 pm
Formercat, I really don't think the POY was a slap at UPS.  I think what Bearcats said is true - UPS has two worthy candidate for POY and it could very well be that they split votes, which allowed Pecht to get into the top spot.  Which is not to say that Pecht is not deserving, because when you look at NWC-only stats especially, which I think the coaches do, he really stands out.

Overall I think the coaches did a pretty good job of selecting the team.  I was happy to see Tucker get in there where he did. He is one who does the hustle plays that don't often get into the box score.

It should be interesting on Thursday.  Yes it is difficult to beat a good team three times in one year.  And yes, I also remember 2002 when WU beat Whitworth twice in the regular season before the Pirates won handily in Salem in the playoffs.  One difference I would point out, however, is Whitworth's two losses that season were by three points and the Pirates had a shot to tie at the buzzer each time.  Willamette's two losses this season were by double figures each time. 

Bearcats, any idea what kind of support will be making the long trip to Spokane on Thursday?  Tougher to do during the week, but I read that they are letting students from both teams in free this year.
Title: Thursday
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 21, 2006, 04:10:04 pm
Doubtful there will be many Bearcats in the stands on Thursday...maybe even low on the parent side of things, as midweek long trips tend to suck vacation time from the vault....I know most of us will have to rely on old Mike Allegre (sp?) and his WU broadcasts from Spokane...he does a great job promoting WU athletics (as well as some Valley League sports), so we won't be too far out of tune with what goes down Thursday night...

Good point about the point differential Pinecone...although, looking at the stats, that 02 Bearcats squad was not capable of shooting the ball at the clip this one is...granted, Whitworth has harassed Olinger, Stuvland, and company into some horrific performances this year, but any team that shoots the ball from 3 as well as Willamette does has a punchers chance at any time...

Pinecone, is this the best Whitworth team of the Hayford era? OR would you take the team that won the NWC title in 03?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 21, 2006, 04:41:18 pm
pineconefan, no doubt pecht is a good player and deserves first team recognition but i am a firm believer that the team who wins the conference should get the POY award. unless, someone carries a team like linfield or pacific had this year to a top 3 spot all by themselves. such was not the case this year like it was not last year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 21, 2006, 06:06:25 pm
From:  NWC Basketball Bylaws:
5.0 CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP
5.l Determination of Conference Champion
5.1.1 The champion will be the winner of the NWC championship
basketball tournament. (Adopted Spring 2004)
5.2 Dates and Times
5.2.1 #3 seed plays at #2 seed on Thursday prior to NCAA selection
Sunday, and the winner then plays at #1 seed on Saturday prior to
NCAA selection Sunday.

So -- why does everyone keep refering to UPS as the Conference Champs?  They finished the regular season in first place, but they still need to earn the title.  I think WU & Whitworth still have something to say about that.  The "old rules" of he who finishes first, takes the conference is gone!!  It's about playoffs.  (And #2 & #3 have both beaten #1 this year, so it can happen again!)

And Second:

7.1 All-Conference
7.l.1 Conference coaches will select a Player of the Year and First and
Second All-Conference teams. Both teams consist of five (5)
players. The Player of the Year is the eleventh person. Ties are not
allowed. There is no limit on the number of All-Conference
Honorable Mention. To receive All-Conference Honorable
Mention, at least one vote must be received.
7.1.2 Conference coaches will nominate their own players for
consideration. Nominations are then voted on, but coaches may not
vote for their own players.
7.2 Most Valuable Player/Champion(s)
7.2.1 The Conference Most Valuable Player will be the player in the
men's and in the women's division accumulating the most All-
Conference points as voted upon by the respective coaches.

So formercat -- doesn't matter what you believe -- the POY is picked by the coaches.  It has more to do with points along the way, then with how the team finishes.   So, theoretically a really great player on a crappy team could become POY -- doesn't usually happen that way, but it could.  Might be some truth to the fact that UPS nominated too many & it split the votes, but the coaches don't get to vote for their own players anyway.  Guess it encourages truthful assessment.  Really, though, the whole All Conference team thing just leaves out some really great players -- it just depends on what position you play.

Thanks for not throwing me under the bus Bearcatsfan -- tough to cheer from there!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 21, 2006, 06:36:22 pm
I honestly do not see willamette winning in spokane, and i hope they don't.  BRING ON WHITWORTH.  We all know what happens when willamette comes out here.  If wu comes i might just listen to the slaughtering on the radio and save myself a couple bucks.

Curtiss got snubbed, but it was expected...the same thing happened last year.  As bearcats said...lots of politics in the process, who likes who and who doesn't.  Other hand-- Pecht was very deserving-- however in my opinion not enough to take the POTY from a unbelievably worthy candidate on the regular season champ.

I want to see pecht and curtiss on the same court.   The one time i saw pecht he wasn't very impressive.  Obviously his numbers were good, but i want to see pecht and curtiss on the same court playing for the conference championship (thank you bball addict -- a quality post...wow...someday ill have one of those).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 21, 2006, 07:59:38 pm
will the championship game be played at UPS or is it at a neutral site?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 21, 2006, 08:24:30 pm
UPS hosts the championship game.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 22, 2006, 04:55:58 am
coty and poty are both fine choices...eb and lp both had the stats and wins to back it up.  I hope a 6th place team never has a poty and as i said before..reg season champ should be coty....congrats to both men.

thanks for the history lesson and the thanks for the second history lesson backing me up about WU.  Difficulty of winning 3 times is overrated and I know Vegas never cares about that myth.  If WW chokes at home or WU goes 3pt crazy...you would have a case but....don't think so.  Let's just wait and see.  I do think it will be close, oh yea..CJ first team.. :o unreal...only mistake on the whole ballot...Sz or Born were much better and who needs 4 guards anyway.  Politics I guess.

I hope to make it to UPS sat regardless of Thu outcome, but who really wants to see another WU annialation.  I saw the WW game at UPS earlier this season and it was fun.

Watching Peche and Curtis matchup at UPS would be fun even if curtis won't (can't) guard him....laffin.  Problem is WW doesn't have a def stopper for Curtis..maybe they will both score 30 and the real battle will be between BIG Log and BIG Pirate...edge to UPS cause McVey plays 3 inches taller at home.

And yes all 3 teams are playing for League title...no 06 banners hanging in Tacoma just yet.




Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 22, 2006, 10:36:21 am
Stuvland's numbers speak for themselves (16.0 ppg in conference games, 43% from 3, 33 minutes and 1.6 steals) on a team that went 13-3...

The All-NWC 1st team has included 4 guards 4 out of the last 6 years.

What an "Annihilation" of the voting process...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2006, 11:35:06 am
Yeah -- what's with that anyway?  Why does the voting process favor the scorers?  A lot of scoring in basketball happens because the big guys make room for the guards or get the rebounds for second (or third) chance points or block the other team's shots!!  Coaches should have to nominate people for each of the positions.  Let's reward the guy who leads in steals, assists, rebounds, & blocks.  Teams aren't just made up of guards/forwards.

nwhoops1903:
Stuvland is a young but awesome player.   He's definitely not a mistake on the roster, although I would've liked to have seen another post player.  He has another year of eligibility, but he's a senior so I don't know if he'll play next year.  You saw WW play at UPS, but did you see them at George Fox ?  or Pacific Lutheran?  Or did you see UPS at Willamette this year?  Those were also some interesting games.  The Willamette team that played at UPS last week was not the team that's been winning games.  They were timid & unsure and don't expect that team to show up in Spokane.   Whitworth & WU have had a strong rivalry for the past 5 years at least -- since Hayford came to Whitworth.  Both teams have been in the top 3 spots for 4 out of the last 5 years and the games against each other have almost always been close or OT situations.

It's better for the NWC if UPS doesn't win the title, because then we'd have an automatic bid & everyone knows that UPS would get a Pool C bid because of their record the past 3 years.
Go Bearcats!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: steveflegel on February 22, 2006, 12:51:33 pm
Just a clarification about the NWC procedures that were quoted earlier on this board.  There was a mistake in language that was adopted by the NWC Board of ADs last Spring.  The current language does state that the winner of the tournament is the NWC Champion, but that will be changed the next time the ADs meet.  After consultation in January about this issue between the commissioner, the AD basketball liaison and myself, along with the basketball coaching chairs, it was concluded that the intent of the coaches was to consider the regular season winner as conference champion.  The winner of the tournament is awarded the NWC's Pool A bid to the tournament.  So Puget Sound will be given the NWC Championship trophy and has been awarded first place points in the All-Sports trophy standings.

Pretty sharp group of fans to catch that mistake, so thanks for keeping us on our toes.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 22, 2006, 09:32:49 pm
I didnt say CJ was a bad player...just not his team leader...like the big men I mentioned...put him on second team and I say nothing about the kid.  Oh, and lets not jump on spelling mistakes guys...much more to point out hopefully than my 6th grade education.

WU will bring a good game to Spokane and It may be close but I just can't see a team that hasn't lost in over a month, lose at home where they are UNDEFEATED this year to a team that has to be saying they missed their chance amongst themselves.  The fall from first to third on Friday and then WW getting the job done at the dreaded Pacific Cave before their 8pm tipoff had to have had some negative effect.  I am glad they won Sat so that they aren't on some losing skid.

I agree that UPS is a lock for Pool C if they lose but I just wonder if the Sat's loser will get in too, no matter what.
I figure WW makes a good case for finishing second in conference and finishing the season strong.  An OT loss or UPS win on a buzzer beater, heck a game like Jan at UPS could say the WW is just a notch below and deserves consideration.  I just can't see WU making a similar or strong case unless they win out.  No matter what I would love to see to NWC teams in.

Wish they were playing tonight!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 22, 2006, 10:07:51 pm
Regional Rankings are out . . . with UW-Stout #1 and UPS #2 in the West.  What are the chances of UPS hosting a regional if they win out and Stout falls?  I think UPS finished first in the region last year when they were forced to go on the road after the first round.  At the time, I believe that an argument was made that the NCAA doesnt like to allow teams to host on consecutive years (obviously $ is always a consideration as well). 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2006, 04:18:07 am
It's better for the NWC if UPS doesn't win the title, because then we'd have an automatic bid & everyone knows that UPS would get a Pool C bid because of their record the past 3 years.

Puget Sound's record from the past three years wouldn't matter one bit. If they got a Pool C bid it'd be on the basis of how they fared in terms of the criteria this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2006, 08:20:36 am
So -- how does that work?  They only have two regular season losses - one each to #2 & #3 in their conference -- both with .8 + seasons.   Where would that put them regionally, especially if it's a close one?  Just humor me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2006, 10:10:30 am
By the way, according to Steve Flegel, keeper of the NWC site, UPS is the 05-06 Champ in Men's Basketball.  Congrats to Bridgeland & his team -- I stand corrected.  (Actually they're having it corrected . . .)  Enjoy the honor & the points for the All Sports trophy.

That, being said, may I just say "GO BEARCATS"  before I hit the long road to Spokane.  I believe there may be a few noisy fans there -- it'll be tough to notice because the colors are so similar -- but we'll be the ones loudly cheering at "inappropriate times" if you're the home team.

I'll watch out for buses!    ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 23, 2006, 04:34:32 pm
Addict why don't you catch the wagon in spokane with whitworth and meet up with the loggers down here in tacoma? 

Do we really think the winner of this game (whitworth) is going to play thursday, travel over to tacoma and beat a fresh ups team with 5 seniors at their place where they haven't lost a conference game in 3 years?  Not happening.

Boy, what I wouldn't do to see those all conference ballots...maybe have a LoggerGate 2006?

Don't be so sure a UPS loss is better for the conference.  I don't like the idea of having the best NWC team hoping for an at large bid.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 23, 2006, 07:40:19 pm
If Chase Curtis would have won player of the year, it would have been as bad as when Matt Glynn won it over Brian Depew!  Glynn was a decent player on a good system, but that is it!  Depew was a much better player! 

Fortunately for the rest of the league, UPS's system is not as strong or intimidating this year.  Don't be so sure that those senior will be hoping for a Pool C bid!  Just remember that the games are won and lost on the court and not in your head Blawkawk.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 23, 2006, 11:33:08 pm
i thought this would be close but this is tooo close...< 1 min left

and its a 4 pt game!!  peche hits both ff...thats poty clutch.

go Pirates
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 24, 2006, 01:32:42 am
Willamette deserves a lot a credit tonight.  Olinger came to play and had a great game.  Those last two threes were clutch.  Stuvland was still MIA offensively, but was solid on defense.  The Willamette big guys played much better than they did in the first visit to Spokane and almost were the difference.  But it was still too much Pecht and Tucker for the Pirates.  Willamette had to guard one of them with either Miller or Olinger and that's just too tough of a match up.  I think both Pecht and Tucker got 75-80% of their points posting up. 

Hoping for a great game on Saturday.  Bob C. wasn't there tonight (Chuck Debruen - blast from the past), so I don't know if he'll be calling the game Saturday.  I hope so.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 24, 2006, 10:31:21 am
Tough, tough way to end the year for Willamette....really was surprised by BWilliams missing the FT with 3.9 left, giving WU one last chance at the tie...only to see them turn the ball over...

In the end, Whitworth was simply a better basketball team...WU could not find consistent ways to exploit their 3 smalls vs. 3 bigs, and Whitworth did...expect a big battle Saturday for the AQ bid to the NCAA's...think Whitworth is now a strong POOL C candidate, but they probably should be thinking win the AQ and don't worry about a committee deciding your fate...

As for my Bearcats, a solid performance this season.  13-3 in the NWC is very admirable.  Johnny O, Luchterhand, Garrelts, Miller, and JBaran all will be missed next season, but expect the backcourt of Erickson (who looked very good tonight against Williams) Stuvland, and Fife to help WU be back in the thick of things next season...

I see a 100-98, or 102-97 game tonight, and I'm going with the Loggers, simply because they are at home...Whitworth will not go quietly, very good basketball team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 24, 2006, 01:11:20 pm
Solid game..solid win for WW.  I do think the better team won and I am glad to see WU show up with a strong effort.  I thought it would be higher scoring but both teams played strong defense all 40 minutes, and that rarely happens.  I think CJ helped make my case about first team though....1-9 from 3 pt...he was the only WU not on his top game.  JO was incredible and goes out with head high...class act.

Good job to Coach Hayford and his staff for having WW ready and to beat a good team 3 times in one season...and 6 times in a row.  WU got 8 more shots but WW had only 9 TO's.  Bucs played good D and protected the basketball, a true recipe for success.

Tucker just owned WU this year and Peche delivered, Young made big shots, BWilliams played well 7-1 ratio(but that miss at 3.7 was unclutch), Hasenfus can't foul out Sat.  WW bench will need to do better if they are to beat UPS, fortunately Jones plays best in an uptempo game.

See ya there Sat



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 24, 2006, 02:33:04 pm
Much congratulations and respect for willamette this year.  Nobody expected them to go this far...they really overachieved and exceeded expectations.

As for WW, no chance in Tacoma.  And based on UPS's past 2 performances, I see them sailing to an AQ bid (--I like that)...I say Loggers by 17.  97-80...WW will run with 'em too.   UPS is fresh and at home and playing their best ball of the season.  Whitworth has a long trip to make and a war to fight on someone else's turf on beat up legs.  Bring on Pecht!!!!  In the biggest games the biggest players step up, and I wanna see who leads their team to victory. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 24, 2006, 03:17:20 pm
BH - I am not sure that Whitworth's legs will be all that affected.  The fact that our teams normally play two nights in a row means that Whitworth has an extra day to rest.  In the IIAC BV played a tough home game against Luther, then went to #1 Wartburg and beat them after Wartburg had the first round off.  Sometimes getting that game in first helps you.

Adam Morrison sighting at the Fieldhouse last night.  It was funny watching the kids surround him after the game for autographs.  He's actually been out to a couple games a year each of the last three seasons to support B. Williams, but this is the first year he is THE Adam Morrison.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 24, 2006, 06:43:36 pm
Actually I agree with pineconefan -- Whitworth's legs shouldn't be affected since the game against WU wasn't that fast paced.  Also, it's not a huge road trip, since Hayford flies his team -- what is that, an hour flight?

Not sure what happened to CJ last night, but that was not representative of his play.  Give it up already -- the coaches vote on those players for All Conference and really -- they don't get money or medals for it -- just bragging rights.  There are a lot of really good players in this conference that didn't even get Honorable Mention.  That happens every year and they all get over it.

I think Whitworth will beat UPS.   Neither team last night played as well as I've seen them play this year.  It's amazing to me that Whitworth only won by 3 for as poorly as Willamette was shooting, it should have been a much bigger score difference.  But, then again, Willamette plays good defense -- seems to me that UPS's strength is offense, though, so it will be close, but Hayford's bunch will prevail.  They're ready and they play the same kind of rough, traveling ball that UPS does, so they'll fit right in.

Nice touch by Whitworth to reserve seats for Willamette fans.  Bad form by some of the Whitworth parents to ignore it.  True that they weren't needed, but they were seated way before that was apparent.

And what's with the fact that Gordie got more cheers, than Jim in his own house when they introduced the coaches.  Your fans should be ashamed.  Look what he's done with that program.

So, it's a less than a perfect year with Willamette out, but it could be better if Whitworth wins the AQ & UPS has the championship.    Go Bucs!

P.S.  Kind of like those NFL shirts that say "Anybody but Dallas!"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 25, 2006, 11:07:53 pm
UPS 49
Whitworth 29
18:00 2nd
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 25, 2006, 11:39:46 pm
Whitworth is back in it.

UPS 73
Whitworth 66
5:17 2nd
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 25, 2006, 11:58:36 pm
UPS has survived the comeback attempt.

UPS 94
Whitworth 86
Final
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on February 26, 2006, 12:04:22 am
congrats to a great group of sr. who go out with a home win and a third consecutive NWC crown; you have done yourself and your school proud!  bring on the NCAA's.... ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2006, 04:46:20 am
My congrats to UPS for knocking down their 3's...15-30 and 11 more free throws.  Whitworth tried to climb that mountain but it was just to high.  Not complaining just saying UPS played the game they had to play to win and they did.  Curtis and his big emotion were huge.  I think He showed he was the best player on the court AT UPS.

Home advantage was huge and WW knew it going in and fought back to get it to 4.  I really thought if they had pulled even...the crowd might have been too stunned to bring em back...needless to say UPS guards didn't need a crowd and pushed the lead back over 10 with clutch makes from deep.

Both coaches used all they had and all their timeouts with 3 min to go and after that the frenzy that is UPS was the difference.  Congrats to UPS and EB..hats off to Curtis. 

WW should be proud of the way they played.  I am proud of the effort and although not their best, it was what happens against UPS.  Who really sets an offense against them in Tacoma anyway? 

WW will not get a pool C most likely and that is a shame, not just for their players and coaches or fans, but for the NWC family.  I wish a miracle is announced because WW did show themselves to be a team with skill and heart.

Good Luck UPS and God Bless the pool C.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2006, 05:29:07 am
NWChoops 1903:

"Mark my words.....Whitworth will not lose to UPS if they get the chance to play them, regardless of the court"

OK...Im markin it...

And ups punked you'all so much i thought ashton kutcher was gonna pop up on the court....

CHASE CURTISS goes for 28-14 and 9  in the biggest game of the year...28-14-and 9

28_14 and 9

28-14 and 9

28-14 and 9

28 points, 14 rebounds and 9 assists

Pecht...take your POTY and sit at home next week while chase and ups play  for another ncaa title....

its a sham... we all  know it is....

curtiss got 5 first place nwc votes....how does he finish 2nd for poty????

that means somebody...aka skip, harshman, hayford. doty screwed him....

28-14 and 9 in the biggest game of the year...

 28-14 and 9 in the biggest game of the year...

I know its only one game....The Biggest game ofg the year....


Where was Pecht...the POTY????? 14 and 7?  Comeon????

28-14 and 9 in the biggest game of the year?????

Chase gets screwed for POTY... again...but it dont matter...hes playin next weekend...

HES A WINNER....WISH FOR ONCE THE COACHES WOULD VOTE FOR A WINNER FOR POTY instead of holding grudges...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2006, 05:59:19 am
its a shame and an embarrassement to the nwc that pecht won nwc poty....

ill repeat...

its a shame and an embarrassement to the nwc that pecht won nwc poty....

the best player on the team is brian williams...and against ups... he is a turnover machine...both games

john young is terrified of pressure...and we saw that all 6 game hes played against ups..cant catch the ball and scared when he does...

james jones looked like kobe again tonight...is that only against ups????

antoine williams came up big...only a frosh...have fun the next 3 years nwc....

tucker looked good...

thanx for signin up to post ww bandwagon...see you next year...

bball addcit..you still ridin shotgun???

nwc...i got your baby seat in the back....my child locks are still on though

gotta go recycle my baby powder bottle 'cause we just spanked ww's @$$ again...

28...14...and 9...when's the last time we've seen that???

28...14...and 9...when's the last time we've seen that???

Rule #76...No excuses..play like a champion...

The biggest and best players show up when everything is on the line...Curtiss was there...Where was Pecht????

28-14 and 9...

P.S...Was Depew the only player in the "04 class to play pro????  Didn't think so...Just askin...

44 and 4 in 3 years....


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 26, 2006, 10:20:46 am
Blackhawks get over yourself.  Whitworth played poorly and your Loggers only beat them by 8.  Your crowd got quiet quite a few times because they were afraid Whitworth was going to beat them.  Curtiss is a whiner!  McVey has some class and so does your freshman, Antwon.

Whitworth was full of mistakes, missed shots & turnovers, and the Loggers outplayed them -- but only won by 8 -- they should've killed them.   And yes,  Chase Curtiss played well -- made up for some of the others -- my point about you having hotshots and not team players confirmed.

nwhoops:  Not sure why you think Whitworth won't get a Pool C bid.  They beat WU 3 times -- and Willamette has previously been ranked pretty strong regionally.  They won once &  lost by 1 and by 8 to UPS -- the world's greatest team (according to Blackhawks) --  so that puts them -- WAAAAAY up there.  They've been in the top 3 spots of the NWC for 5 out of the past 6 years & that was when most teams in the conference were performing better.   NWC's top 3 all have .800+ seasons -- does any other conference have that?  Anyway, one can always hope.

See you next year Blackhawks -- I believe you'll get to experience what's known as a "building" year for your team.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on February 26, 2006, 11:40:13 am
oh, I'm not so sure on the rebuilding year in 06-07 bbaddict....young talent on that team and I'm sure EB and JL have some recruiting tricks planned...the rest of the NWC can always hope I suppose.

congrats to the Loggers and count me among those who hopes the 'rats get in to the NCAA's; the more from the NWC the better.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2006, 12:02:52 pm
Bball Addict (Feb. 12)

"However, if they do represent the NWC in the regionals -- I'd have to say "Go Loggers!"  

Let's hear it!

Himjay (Feb. 13)

"I think everyone on this board would agree that Curtiss is a streaky shooter.  Im not trying to put the guy down, its just the truth."


28 points 14 rebounds, 9 assists...little more than just a streaky shooter....you think?

NWC Bball Fan (Feb 13)

"However, I do think they will win the league and then lose to Whitworth by 10 + and your  beloved home court in the conference championship.  I bet you that the UPS coaching staff and players are very scared of Whiworth."

Yes...UPS was terrified....  

NWC Bbbal Fan

"Mark my words.....Whitworth will not lose to UPS if they get the chance to play them, regardless of the court"

I know I already got you on this one...but its just so easy!  I love the "MARK MY WORDS"

NWC Bball fan (Feb 17)

"Shame that the best team in conference isn't playing Friday night."

Would that be the team that won the conference championship or the one that got the AQ bid?

Blackhawks#4 (Feb 18)
 
But i guarantee you i'll be the one on the board talkin' in a week.   I don't care how hot ww is.

Oh...that wise man was me

Blackhawks#4 (Feb 18)

Bandwagon boys... i don't wanna hear your guarantees or your "mark my word"...because i will, and you won't respond next saturady night, when i'm here talkin about the loggers and the tourney.

This is fun...

NWChoops1903 (Feb 18)
 
 " No one wants to face Pirates right now."  

Bridgeland called your boys out in the newspaper!!!!  Yesterday he said "we were pulling for whitworth to beat willamete...we want another shot at whitworth"

Blackhawks#4 (Feb 18)

"Bball Addict:  It is over.  WW or WU will not beat UPS in Tacoma.  It's over."

Oops...Me again.

Blackhawks4 (Feb 21)

I want to see pecht and curtiss on the same court.   The one time i saw pecht he wasn't very impressive.  Obviously his numbers were good, but i want to see pecht and curtiss on the same court playing for the conference championship

Darnit! I keep doin that.

Blackhawks4 (Feb 24)

 "In the biggest games the biggest players step up, and I wanna see who leads their team to victory."  
 
Would anybody disagree?  Curtiss doubled Pecht's stats, 28-14 and 9 in the AQ game
 
Bballaddict (Feb 26)

"Whitworth played poorly and your Loggers only beat them by 8."

Yeah...Only 8, who do you guys play next week?

Bballaddict (Feb 26)

And yes,  Chase Curtiss played well -- made up for some of the others -- my point about you having hotshots and not team players confirmed.

What????????Nobody plays harder or bigger or with more emotion than him.   Too bad your pretty boys are too afraid to scrap and hit the floor like Curtiss..."Hotshsot"...you're ridiculous

Bball addict (Feb 16)

See you next year Blackhawks -- I believe you'll get to experience what's known as a "building" year for your team.

44 and 4 in 3 years...Are we not seeing a trend??????  We all know you read this post, but pretend you didn't and don't respond.  Yes, ill see you next year as UPS waives another NWC banner in 07!!!!!  Wait a minute, "darn you blackhawks, you're so conceited."  

Is it too early to make my '07 prediction??????? I can't help it, I'm a cocksman.

Thank you bearcatsfan (i guess pinecove too, you're a vet) for a good year and good debating / posting...hope ill hear from you as loggers go dancin'

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 26, 2006, 01:00:20 pm
Yes -- GO LOGGERS -- Go NWC.  I'm not so sure that Whitworth played their last game.  Guess we'll know tonight.  As far as Bridgeland rooting for Whitworth over Willamette, why was he sitting with the AD from Willamette in the Willamette cheering section?

Blackhawks -- I guess you can't remember as far back as 2003 -- yeah, that was when UPS didn't ever do better than 6th -- for, oh, several years!!  Willamette & Whitworth have been at the top for years struggling with teams like Lewis & Clark & Linfield.  You may think you have the only team in the NWC -- they're just the latest flash in the pan -- but when your top dogs graduate, oh yeah, that's THIS year -- you'll be singing new tunes!!

I'll have to decline the shotgun seat, however, you talk too much & too loud and your karma is much too low for me.  I'll watch the PLU women beat someone -- maybe UPS!!  It's a sorry note that all of your fans showed up for the sure thing game against Whitworth & didn't go support the  women's team playing across town.

On another note -- what moron schedules the men's & women's playoff games on the same nights?  How stupid is that?

OK -- I'm done, but I'm not gone!!  It'll be a pleasure to see  you in 07 -- Go Bearcats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 26, 2006, 01:16:43 pm
-- they're just the latest flash in the pan --

44-4?!  You've got to be kidding me!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 26, 2006, 02:35:16 pm
Blackhawk, You are a joke.  You have absolutely no class and one of the worst, rub it in your face, and I am better than you, attitudes that anyone on this board has ever seen.  You are a complete joke and think way to much of yourself.  You are a disgrace to basketball fans and what this board is all about.  UPS played a great game.  Whitworth played decent, but not good and lost by 8.  They had a lot of shot go in and out in the first half, while Chase Curtis BANKED in a 3 from the top of the key and McVey had a free throw bounce higher than the shot clock and go down.  Curtis was amazing last night.  Although he is classless, his emotion and drive carried the Loggers.  Congratulations to the Loggers.  But not to you, you joke!  Curtis had a great night on center stage and proved he is a first team all-conference player.  If a horrible game for Pecht is 14-7, then I guess he is horrible, just like you say.  One game does not count of POY.  Again you and your comments are a joke!!!  People like you are why everyone in the conference can't stand UPS.  However, not you, but UPS....  Good luck in the tournament, you deserve to be there.  Whitworth also deserves to be there... remember up 30 with 4:00 when the bench cleared in Spokane.  Remember the one point game at UPS earlier this year.  Remember the huge comback from a 22 point deficit last night?  Whitworth is banking on a miracle pool C bid, and I hope they get it.  Since you are a joke, I am sure you don't want anyone else from the NWC to do well.  That is the type of classless person you are! MG.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 26, 2006, 03:09:09 pm
NWC bball fan:

Lets get serious.  Are you trying to tell me that you guys wouldnt have been all over Bhawks if Whitworth had won?  Could you really have resisted pulling out some of his quotes from the past few weeks?  I doubt it.

As for Curtiss, I think "classless" is being pretty harsh.  As a fan of an opposing team you may not enjoy his antics or style of play, but you would LOVE the guy if he were on your squad.  You cant deny that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 26, 2006, 03:39:20 pm
Props to UPS.  Simply put, the Loggers did what they wanted to do better than the Pirates did.  they were 15 of 30 from three point range.  Tough to beat that.

I have to agree with Bridgeland's quote in the Tacoma paper from Sunday - Homecourt meant everything in this tournament and between these teams.  UPS plays much more comfortably in that building, as most teams do at home.

I also agree with Hayford's quote in today's paper - Curtiss showed that he was an all-american level player last night.

The Pirates showed heart to fight back from 22 down to within five, but it was too much to overcome. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 26, 2006, 04:14:18 pm
Loggers Hoops,
  I can agree with your points.  I just have a hard time with Blackhawks.  He is just so pompus.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 26, 2006, 04:14:47 pm
NWC Bball Fan:

"Curtis was amazing last night.  Although he is classless, his emotion and drive carried the Loggers."

You don't know the kid....To say this is completely ignorant (just like me i guess). Your comments disgust me.  Give the kid his props.  Classless?????  He's the opitome of class. Much like we hated Bierlink.  Hated Bierlink.  He holds, cheats, scraps, he's fiery and gets in your face...But NEVER, NEVER would I say the guy has no class.   He was a winner and a very good player.  You may not like him...but you have to recognize that. Nobody plays harder or with more emotion than Curtiss.  Nobody's on the floor more than Curtiss.  Nobody leads more than him.  As a basketball fan...you have to appreciate that from your star player.
 
 "If a horrible game for Pecht is 14-7, then I guess he is horrible, just like you say."

Lets get something straight.  I thought we already decided you can't make things up and say I said them.
I think Pecht is a very good player...but he's not your POTY...The POTY had his 2 biggest games of the year on the center stage when all the lights were on.  Coincidence?  I think not


"People like you are why everyone in the conference can't stand UPS."

I understand why people don't like UPS...just like they don't like the yankees, lakers and other winners (yes, i realize it's a stretch)

Finally I don't care to defend myself, especially to you, but I challenged you and bballadict (who actually understands that this is a forum and when you lose you should get razzed) to find one personal attack in all 90 posts.  The only one who has gotten personal is you. I said nothing but congrats to bearcatsfan...but you, who's first post came personally at me, you are absolutely right... I'm gonna let you hear about it.  You're taking this board way to seriously.

BBall Addict...Maybe Bridgeland was sitting with the majesky  because he hired Bridgeland and gave him his first head coaching job at uc santa cruz???? Maybe? And I can at least respect Bball addict becase he understands that this is a board and when you losee, you should get heckled.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: formercat on February 26, 2006, 04:48:44 pm
so now that UPS is the conference champions can the NWC strip pecht of the POTY and give it to the man with 1 assist shy of a TRIPLE DOUBLE?! this one goes out to those that said ups hasnt yet won the conference so why should curtiss get it. well, i guess you saw why he should have got it and they are the conference champs and he was the best player on the team. maybe there should be a POTY recount!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 26, 2006, 09:35:08 pm
Blackhawks4

Are you quoting me as saying this?  Check your facts

NWChoops 1903:
"Mark my words.....Whitworth will not lose to UPS if they get the chance to play them, regardless of the court"
OK...Im markin it...

Ahhh..cause I didn't.

It doesn't matter to me anyway since I can't stand your sandbox attitude.  I think a good look in the mirror is in order about taking this too seriously, plus your posts have as much insight and accuracy as a one eyed Log.  Are there any UPS fans that have anything intelligent to say?  Please loggers, don't let this guy be your voice.

I like EB's take cause it is accurate...Home court advantage was the difference and if you go to my original post, I called UPS no 3's no way...guess what, they made there 3's and the won.  Without clutch baskets from downtown and one good bank they don't win...but they did and they deserve the W.

Hats off to Curtis and his monster game, but over the whole season he was not POTY.  One game does not, a POTY make.
And where did you hear he had 5 first place votes anyway? Is that published somewhere?


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 26, 2006, 11:48:15 pm
Blackhawks - You bet, Curtiss had a huge game on Saturday.  But you want to be carefull about the Biggest Players in Biggest Games rhetoric.  The games only get bigger from here.  Will Curtiss be able to follow through with equally big performances?

It kind of brings to mind your final game.  Home court section semifinal against one of the NCAA tournament favorites.  Hard to say there is a bigger stage.  How'd it go for you again - 3/14 from the field, 1/9 from three, 7 total points, five turnovers.  And you guys were run off the floor.  Not exactly a Player of the Year performance by any definition.  Either that or it really wasn't that big of a game.

Must've been hard watching two other teams play for the right to go to the final four on your own court in such a dead environment.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 26, 2006, 11:51:38 pm
No Pirates in the tournament this year.  Not a big surprise, and can't really be considered a disappointment.  Yes, Whitworth finished strong, but letting games get away at GFU, Oxy, and PLU really cost the team. 

But I like what the Pirates are bringing back next year.  And contrary to what some on this board report, there are coaches in the league other than EB who work hard on recruiting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on February 27, 2006, 12:35:27 am
Yikes, pinecone, talk about getting too personal.  That post seems out of character for you . . .
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2006, 02:09:09 am
Yeah Spooh - that post was probably a shame and an embarrassement.  But BH really likes to throw shots around at other players, coaches, the league - pretty much everyone not in a UPS uniform.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Himjay23 on February 27, 2006, 05:36:01 am
Congrats to UPS, they came up big when it mattered most. Kind of a shame Whitworth didn't get a bid.  I think they deserved one. Just goes to show that there isn't too much respect for the NWC at this point in time. Aside from UPS, Whitworth, and WU (I guess GFU is a decent team) the conference was very poor. It's just too bad they couldn't sqeeze at least 2 in there.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on February 27, 2006, 09:04:08 am
BYE for the Loggers, with a California team coming to Tacoma for the third year in a row.....at least we can try and beat on someone besides PP this time!   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 27, 2006, 10:55:02 am
You're right Himjay, the NWC doesn't get much respect.  For that reason, I say GO LOGGERS -- take it all the way!  Our conference needs a big win in basketball like Linfield does for Football.  Then maybe we'll get some respect.  The NWC women's teams got two in the tourney, so the men should be there too!! 

So Blackhawks -- you got your wish -- I'm rooting for the Loggers -- at least for now.  But don't discount WU & Whitworth for next year -- you're losing Curtiss & McVey!!  And Pineconefan is right -- the other coaches are heavily recruiting and they don't just look for freshmen!
Title: Bragging Rights
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 27, 2006, 11:23:16 am
1. If you're team wins the NWC for 3 years in a row, goes 44-4 over that time span, and you  happen to have been a part of that success, and friends with the current team continuing that success, you have every right to come on this board on let loose about your boys...regardless of the fact BHawks has his own irritating style, the school he was a player at, and is a fan of now, is running away with NWC titles and NCAA berths, while the rest of us are at home every March...you don't have many bullets in your gun when his team keeps winning, and yours keeps losing, yet you still try and attack the guy.

2. Curtiss has dominated WU and Whitworth in two straight championship games on back to back weekends in late February.  He was/should have been the POY. Period.

3. The fact that BHawks true identity is a known fact on this board should not have been exploited the way Pinecone used it in his post.  I don't know about the rest of you, but since I was never a POY of anything other than the occasional Madden season, I don't have the right to call out someone who was, just because their posts got under my skin (which, make no mistake, BHawks can do).

4. Whitworth lost their chance to get that Pool C bid when they dropped the game to OXY in early January. If PC is right, and Oxy was the last team in, that loss by the Pirates in essence kept them out of the dance.

5. BHawks, the Loggers certainly delivered in the NWC postseason, but you cannot argue that you guys need to carry that on in the NCAA's...especially considering you get another home game, the likely #1 West seed, etc...continually pounding the SCIAC, just to get dumped on by the WIAC will not due for a 3rd straight year.

6. Willamette fans keep the faith...while Whitworth owned us this year (3 losses to them is disgusting), Coach James and Co. welcome back a dyamic backcourt (minus Olinger, but Fife is very capable, Erickson is a talented PG, and Stuvland was 1st team NWC) and hopefully, a talented supporting cast that is HUNGRY to do something in late February...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 27, 2006, 01:57:44 pm
I agree with Bearcatsfan even though I really didn't know who Blackhawks was -- until now!  It's a pretty mean & low thing to attack someone personally on the board.  And, anyone who's made it to the NCAA playoffs doesn't have a thing to be ashamed of.  Especially in the NWC where the top three teams are always neck in neck.

It does explain your annoying ways Blackhawks-- thought you were older.  Now I'll be more forgiving about the outrageous remarks and the razzing -- you're allowed to be obnoxious when you're young.  And you're allowed a certain amount of arrogance when you're really good.  Since you're both -- I'll cut you some slack.

Yes, WU's coaches are already looking to next year -- I saw Coach James the day after the Whitworth loss & he was already talking about his new recruits for next year.   And I've seen some of the freshmen play -- not often - because they were behind some pretty good players, but they know what to do.  And how come no one ever mentions Ian Mansfield?  He's a really great shot blocker/rebounder.  He shared playing time with Garrelts, Luchterhand & Barran who are all seniors, but we'll be seeing more of him, I'm sure.

All of you need to give it up on the POY thing.  Lance Pecht is a fine player who deserves the award.  There are others who are deserving as well, but he won it!!  Leave him alone.  He did have a less than perfect game on Saturday night, but everyone does & we know that basketball is a TEAM sport -- it shouldn't matter if one guy has a bad shooting night.  I don't agree with Bearcatsfan that "Curtiss dominated WU & Whitworth in two straight games . . ." because the WU game was a regular season game & he didn't dominate Whitworth -- they just won.  By 8!  8 points is NOT dominating.

And UPS was pretty hot on their shooting that night -- especially 3's.  I think they had things go in that even they didn't expect.  And Whitworth wasn't good on defense -- they gave  UPS second & third and sometimes fourth chances by not taking care of the boards.  And they gave them even more by passing the ball to them and other turnovers.  Whitworth was their own worst enemy that night.

I'm really glad that UPS gets homecourt advantage in the playoffs.  Whitworth got screwed on that in 2003!  I just wish that the NCAA would give the West some respect.  I guess the decision makers are all from midWest or East coast schools?  Don't know why it happens that way.





Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2006, 02:50:54 pm
Maybe the post was over the line.  Was the tone really different than BH uses all the time?  Questioning other players' courage, the integrity of NWC officials...

Actually I came across that information unintentially.  Was looking to see how Curtiss did in post season games the last two years to see if his numbers were close to what he did Saturday, and saw that box score.  (Answer - not really).

That post was meant as an object lesson.  BH was a heck of a player and a clutch player.  Just be careful about making  judgements on an entire season based on one game.  POY was well deserved that year, but by using his own arguement about big games, it works against him.
Title: Questions
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 27, 2006, 04:01:38 pm
Pinecone:  I think its safe to say we can all move on...you're argument was valid, just the execution of it a bit extreme...

question for you...with the loss of Tucker/Pecht, where does whitworth go next year? Any of the guys on the bench supposed to be good, or do you think hayford will go over the top of them with a trans/juco guy?  Young and Williams and the Fus back next year, they should be in the top 3...but that's a tough duo to replace...

Also, I don't think we can use the standard "West Coast Bias" we all love to throw out here...afterall, the SCIAC got two teams in...you'd a made a lot of money placing that bet at the beginning of the season...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2006, 04:18:39 pm
Bearcats, you are right - I don't get the sense that Whitworth feels robbed by being left out.  There is no press release on their website this year like there was last year with the women.  The Pirates blew too many early opportunities, including the game at Oxy.  Of the losses at GFU, Oxy, Pomona, UPS and PLU, they needed at least two of those.  As they say, nobody to blame but yourself. . .

Yes, it will be interesting to see how they replace Pecht/Tucker.  All three of the top three teams have key contributors to replace.  I could see Jurich, who showed real spark this year, moving into one of those spots.  Another one is James Jones, but with him we lose that size advantage that worked for us this year.  I don't know anything about who might be coming in.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 27, 2006, 04:44:13 pm
Pinecone...don't get all sentimental on me...If i couldn't handle or didn't expect any shots back I wouldn't be here.

The biggest players shine in the biggest games....Definitely.  And in '04...the biggest players shined in the biggest game.   My argument didn't work against me.  UWSP not only won 2 straight national titles, but put 6'5" beasts on the court and started not one but two 1st team all americans.  The biggest players shined.... Done....

Loggers at home against a SCIAC team in the second round???????  Doesn't get any sweeter.  My prediction:  Loggers will walk into the sweet 16 again, then it's on.  When you start travelin' and get into those Wisconsin schools you find out what you got.  I gotta say this is the best draw UPS has had in 3 years.  Glad to see they weren't on the top half of the bracket--but geography saved 'em i guess)

UPS is peaking at the right time too.  Looks like we'll get to see about the SCIAC now!!!!!!!!  Didn;t we already have dave colling say occidentel was better than ups?  Let's do it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2006, 08:27:34 pm
BH - I agree, its a good draw for the Loggers.  Most here do hope UPS does well in the tournament.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 27, 2006, 11:52:28 pm
So how many more years does Bridgleand and the Loggers have to win the NWC title before somebody recognizes that they aren't just the...oh, how did you put it..."latest flash in the pan?"  If they win it again next year, in a "rebuilding year," can we agree to that?  Because let me tell you a little secret...There's something special going on up here in Tacoma, and I will be shocked if UPS doesn't win the title every year Bridgeland and crew are at UPS.  Yes...please...put the bullseye on their chest....should I give it a "mark my words?"

Thanks for the slack Addict, I have a really tough time not getting pushed around by you guys. 

If you're a loggerfan, how great was the first minute of the whitworth game.   Curtiss takes the tip from somebody, hoists a three, loggers get 3 "o" boards, arms are gettin' smacked, people are gettin' pushed, Hasenfos loses the ball and grabs his face...Oh god, LOL...UPS dictated that game right away

Anybody who's interested...I found a great rate out to Wisconsin...You gotta think Lawrence will be hosting for the west in the field of 16.  Sure...it's a non-refundable ticket, but come'on we're playin the SCIAC here!  (that outta do it)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2006, 02:26:56 am
Blackhawks:  I guess we're not convinced that UPS is the basketball dynasty that you crow about since nobody heard about UPS before 2003-04 -- you were at the bottom of the conference -- with your football team who also never won.   When people thought of UPS they thought of swimming & soccer I think, but certainly not men's basketball.  The point is that UPS doesn't have the only good coach in the conference -- there are several. 

And about cutting you slack, maybe you're not just young, you're bratty!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on February 28, 2006, 09:10:29 am
"I guess we're not convinced that UPS is the basketball dynasty that you crow about since nobody heard about UPS before 2003-04 -- you were at the bottom of the conference" - bbaddict

bbaddict:  while historically this may be accurate statement with regards to the NWC, it is important to remember that the NWC has been a DIII conference for only seven seasons now - three of which have resulted in conference champtionships for the Loggers.  It seems appropriate to me to compare apples to apples, and in the era of the non-scholarship Div. III athletes in the NWC, Puget Sound basketball seems to be doing more than holding its own.  Not sure how many titles you have to win, consecutive or not, to get the mythical "dynasty" lable, but three out of seven and three straight seems like a pretty positive first step.

Institutions have had to adapt to the new alignement of the conference and some have done it better than others.  PLU has struggled with a few exceptions for the most part to maintain a position of athletic excellence in the NWC, while Whitworth and Linfield have not.

All I know is the Loggers are still chasing those four straight titles by Whitman to end the 1920's.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2006, 10:19:57 am
Gee Loggerville == thanks for the history lesson.  Doesn't change the comment about Bhawks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on February 28, 2006, 11:13:58 am
Doesn't change the comment about Bhawks.

might not change your perceived bratty-factor, but it does make him correct in asserting the Loggers near-dynasty status.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2006, 11:20:28 am
Loggerville -- who are you?--Bhawks big brother?  I think he's demonstrated that he can take care of himself on this board.   You Loggers go enjoy yourselves in the playoffs -- try not to get punched by someone on the SCIA board - I'll even root for your team -- all the way to the top this year.  See you next year without McVey & Curtiss -- Go Bearcats!
Title: NCAA's
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 28, 2006, 01:00:07 pm
BHawks, not many takers on the SCIAC board I see, despite your usual finesse...

For any SCIACers pacing our board,

If Chapman can't beat Fox or Pacific, why would they have a prayer in Tacoma? Oxy does have a quality one point win over the Pirates...but the Tigers have been so bad lately, what chance would they have against BHawks crew?


Dynasty talk is not premature...as much as it pains me to say it, if you win 3 in a row in this league, you've done something special. To say UPS is not worthy of dynasty chatter, simply because they weren't good before is like saying the Patriots were not a dynasty type club, because they were awful the decade before...or the Lakers 3 in a row wasn't amazing, simply because they hadn't won a title of anykind in 12 years...

However, expecting EB to pull it out every year....well, now that this core group is gone (Bhawks, Curtiss, McVey, Cross, Shelton), let's see how the loggers fare...AWilliams is a very good player, but you'd be hard pressed to say the others are "special"...Well, BHawks isn't going to be hard pressed, but rationale observers will be...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on February 28, 2006, 01:51:46 pm
Well, I'd imagine most will be wrapping up their NWC posts...Not much left to talk about here...

Bearcats...been a pleasure...you should think about checkin' out that SCIAC board and reppin' those Loggers (huh? No...ahh, worth a shot).  They get creative over there.  Besides, I getta get off this board before someone comes after my momma.   

UPS - dynasty??  Well, Bridgeland took over a dwindling program 5 years ago and has 3 straight nwc championships.  Not bad.  Not only do loggers return antoine williams (next years nwc poty-well actually probably not), but watch out for jason foster-freshmen this year, ryan delong, as well as a host of soon to be sophmores.  And gee...I wonder which university will bring in the best recruiting class?

Haven't heard from NWCBballfan...But with him and addict on the loose, I'm lockin' my doors at night that's for sure.

Quote
despite your usual finesse...
...Ahh, sarcasm...i'm telling ya' bearcatsfan...sciac board.  The art of posting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 28, 2006, 02:15:38 pm
Alright guys,
  This will be my last post of the year.  BH, you are obviously not my favorite person, but I can appreciate sticking up for your old team.  You have a strong knowledge of the game, it is just so one-sided so much of the time.  However, I hope the Loggers go deep into the tournament and earn some respect for the NWC.  Whitworth really feels that it took the Loggers best shot and still only lost by 8.  They shot amazingly and I hope that continues through the playoffs.  There are a lot of teams in the tournament that would not have finished in the top 3-maybe 4 of the NWC.  Oxy can be dangerous.  They beat #5 Amhearst after the refs gave them the game against Whitworth.

Look for the Pirates to be very good next year.  I hear that they have a good recruiting class coming in and have 3 good starters coming back.  Also, they have James Jones who torched UPS for 31, 19, and 20 in three games.  Along with Whitworth, who else does anyone see having a strong year.  Yes I know UPS will be good, their system will not let them be bad.  It has been fun, and I am sorry if I offended anyone.  Have a great off-season.......and I can't believe I am saying this but... Go Loggers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2006, 02:51:41 am
No question that EB has a good thing going on...and I think 3peat is very impressive...will he be at UPS much longer though?  He has to be interesting to some D2 programs.  Any coaching changes in NWC this off season?  Rumors?  Thoughts?

I hope he and Hayford stay around as long as Gordy has..the NWC will be a solid conference with 2 young, skilled coaches running solid programs...no offense to any of the other coaches..just that these 2 have the last 4 titles. 

Hope the Loggers do well....getting the first round bye showed some respect to them..to bad WW didn't find a spot.  Some close losses doomed the pool C bid and a poor loss to PLU cost them the homecourt game they needed to beat UPS.  I personally, think WW did show class in not complaining or whining or even mentioning the pool C selection process.

Next season should be another good one but before that...good luck again to UPS..I am pretty sure I will go see the game and silently hope they win.  If they go 15-30 from 3 point land and win by 7 or less...I will know the Pirates doubly deserve to be in Spokane this week.  Go Bucs.
Title: Re: NCAA's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2006, 04:10:12 am
If Chapman can't beat Fox or Pacific, why would they have a prayer in Tacoma?

Chapman's not in the tournament.

Hope the Loggers do well....getting the first round bye showed some respect to them

Not really. Puget Sound, like the two SCIAC schools, is a geographic orphan in terms of the D3 tournament field. Putting the three of them together instead of putting them into a more conventional four-team regional field means that the NCAA saves some plane fares, and cutting costs is what this tournament is really all about in their eyes. I'm sure that Puget Sound graded out very well in terms of seeding, but their bye is all about money rather than respect.

.You gotta think Lawrence will be hosting for the west in the field of 16.

You do? That's news to us here in the midwest. Nobody in these parts is taking anything for granted as far as the Midwest/West sectional is concerned, Lawrence fans included.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on March 01, 2006, 10:22:16 am
Sorry, GS, I meant Claremont...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: tigersports on March 01, 2006, 08:45:26 pm
For those Logger fans (and NWC fans, too) that are interested, we will be broadcasting the Occidental/Claremont game on Thursday at 7.00 pt.  You can get it at www.oxybroadcast.com.  Hope you'll listen and hope to see you in Tacoma on Saturday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OxyFan21 on March 02, 2006, 12:05:46 am
Hello from the SCIAC Board,

Not on here to make any type of predictions.  At this point, I am only concerned about CMS tomorrow night.  Yes, Oxy has not been playing its best basketball of the season, but I hope we make it up to Tacoma.

It will be nice for our kids to take a trip to the Pac NW.  Good luck to everyone, and be sure to follow Tigersports on his broadcast tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: walzy31 on March 03, 2006, 04:41:04 pm
Thanks to the NWC

MCLA (MASCAC) to Duke (ACC)

MCLA beat Fitchburg St. by 4
Fitchburg St. beat Newbury by 4
Newbury beat Roger Williams by 20
Roger Williams beat Curry by 5
Curry beat Trinity by 5
Trinity beat Amherst by 3
Amherst beat Pomona-Pitzer by 19
Pomona-Pitzer beat Whitworth by 4
Whitworth beat Puget Sound by 24
Puget Sound beat UC Riverside by 4
UC Riverside beat Pacific by 8
Pacific beat Texas A&M by 7
Texas A&M beat Texas by 3
Texas beat West Virginia by 1
West Virginia beat Georgetown by 13
Georgetown beat Duke by 3

Duke is currently #1 (until Monday)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: tigersports on March 04, 2006, 02:01:57 am
We will have the Oxy/UPS game tonight at 7 at www.oxybroadcast.com.  Please tune it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TigerFan_1973 on March 04, 2006, 10:27:17 pm
We will have the Oxy/UPS game tonight at 7 at www.oxybroadcast.com.  Please tune it.

Thank you.

I'm a Wittenberg fan.  This is the last game I need to fill out my bracket.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 04, 2006, 11:40:42 pm
Gee, who's this McVey guy?  He's not bad ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: OXY Oswald on March 05, 2006, 06:04:23 am
Gee, who's this McVey guy?  He's not bad ;D
That guy... he killed us.  Offensive boards left and right.

Great game Tigers!

Go Loggers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 05, 2006, 12:08:36 pm
nice win loggers..and you didn't have to go 15-30 from 3ville.  Amazing

nice game big log

gl next week.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on March 06, 2006, 01:40:19 am
Gee, who's this McVey guy?  He's not bad ;D

That dunk of his was SICK. Put the game out of reach with that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: iwumichigander on March 07, 2006, 04:21:06 pm
Loggers - here is a link to information about Illinois Wesleyan that includes potential matchups of all four teams for Friday's 1st round sectional games and useful CCIW team & conference links
http://www.iwuhoops.com/

This site is hosted by IWU's Bob Quillman also know to many on these boards as TitanQ.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2006, 03:35:30 pm
Hey UPS fans!  Anyone coming to the Great Midwest this weekend?  I would love for a UPS fan to pick me up two tickets for your game.  Any takers???  :D  Send me a message or an email please! I've decided to cheer for whatever team gets me tickets! lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 10, 2006, 11:35:04 pm
Hey hey, lookin' at an elite 8 bid now boys....great win tonight, a solid showing by the NWC and a final 8 berth after three years on knocking on the door....bring on Titan Q and the IWU fans!  Great effort by Williams, a real step-up game for the rookie.  Good luck tomorrow fellas!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: ds0097 on March 11, 2006, 02:26:23 am
has anyone else looked at the CCIW board? People are talking about how they need to respect UPS, and how they are a dangerous and legit team. AM I READING THIS RIGHT? I guess it took UPS not playing the juggernaut that was UWSP to be able to prove what they can do. Wow, I still can't believe this...

Also, it says something about the knowledge and class of the posters on that board as well. They easily could have done what a lot of people do and just overlook UPS because they don't know them and they run a different system. Throw in the win IWU had over us in Cali and I fully excpected 24hrs of IWU fans making final four arrangements. But they're better than that and know this is a much better, experienced and confident UPS team that wants nothing more than to avenge the earlier game.

Should be a great game tomorrow night, hopefully I can figure out a way to get up there...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: patcummings on March 11, 2006, 12:19:58 pm
UPS gang...we will be broadcasting the game tonight for NCAASports.com.

Links will be on the live audio page...

http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/

edit: fixed link.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on March 11, 2006, 08:48:32 pm
Loggers up.....very good game.  get on a listen if you can, the guy is doing a good job on a solo broadcast.

UPS 49  IWU 48  at the half
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: patcummings on March 12, 2006, 01:02:21 am
Well...

A few thoughts...

You don't win a game when your opponent shoots 75% in the second half and you only lead by 1 at the half.  In fact, chances are you don't win regardless of how you perform or how big your lead is. 

UPS only forced 14 IWU turnovers, must be close to the low for the season.

The Loggers didn't win, but I'll tell you this much...the fans of the CCIW are some of the most knowledgeable and most crazy about their basketball.  UPS's program gained a ton of respect this weekend.  There is no doubt that they can play with just about any team out there...and it's not hard to fathom that they will be back next year even without Curtiss and McVey et al.

It was fun to watch and broadcast their games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 12, 2006, 02:23:03 am
Real good fan support for the Loggers too. I expected maybe 50 to make a trip like that but I'd say there were well over 200 in attendance. Since UPS has 35 freshmen on the team I suspect we in the Midwest will be seeing more of them in tournaments to come. No offense intended Logger fans, it's simply easier and cheaper to fly one team than three.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference Photos
Post by: Ryan Coleman on March 12, 2006, 12:26:28 pm
Hey guys,

The photos from last night's game are up and I have the Friday game ready too.
Saturday: http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=671
Friday: http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=669

--
Ryan
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 12, 2006, 12:32:13 pm
I'm sure all the Logger Posters are on a plane right now but they will appreciate it when they get home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 13, 2006, 09:08:20 am
Very entertaining games this past weekend in Appleton.  Obviously I was familiar with UPS since I am a Point fan.  You really surprised some people, especially Augie fans.  I think the majority of the CCIW crowd just assumed it was going to be Augie vs. IWU on Saturday.

You made IWU work for their win on Saturday.  #21 for you guys is a stud and will be missed (senior, right?).  You have some good young guys in #3 (Williams) and I wanted to see more of Robert Krauel too!

I'll have to politely disagree with "The Roop."  There was NO WAY there were 200 UPS fans there.  I went to the LU box office on Friday to pick up tickets to the UPS/Augie game and they told me, between those two schools, nearly 900 tickets were returned.  I would say there were 100, at the very most.  Maybe you were counting my friends and I since we sat with the UPS fans! lol.  :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Roop on March 13, 2006, 05:44:56 pm
Since Old School politely disagreed with me, and got "The Roop" in quotes, I won't argue with him. LOL. Perhaps the UPS crowd took up the seats for 200, they were very territorial about their section. I sat there too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PostUPS on March 13, 2006, 10:27:56 pm

As posted in the Midwest section...

I don't have a lot of time in my busy life to read these posts but have been watching it the last few days and decided to register just to post a comment on the seating situation this past weekend.

Due to the size of the gym the seating arrangements were not the best.  But given the amount of room available in the bleachers at the end of the court there was no need for IWU fans to sit in the UPS section.  When many of us arrived an hour before the game Saturday night there was a large group of IWU fans that had already seated themselves right in our section.  Of course we asked to have them moved to the open bleachers under the basket.  We didn't come 2,000 miles through two plane flights each way to be seated between IWU fans.  If the end bleachers had been full then I would understand the argument... but even so we still had many IWU fans in our section while there was ample room for them in the other bleachers.  Some even covered their IWU shirts just to be able to stay and cheer around us.  I guess having a sideline seat was more important than displaying support for your team... much less respecting the other team's fans.  If we had been playing Lawrence in a full gym then I would understand not being able to have the section to ourselves... but those of you who stayed in our section were disrespectful and by 7:00pm the game was more important to us than your temper tantrums with the school officials.

Nonetheless I was very impressed with the IWU turnout on Saturday and (aside from the ones who made a big fuss out of respecting our section) met some wonderful people.  Given the fact that we had to come seven times as far as the IWU fans did I was also proud of our turnout.  I understand the radio station in Bloomington put out the call and many responded by driving up to Appleton.  I think that is great and your team certainly deserves the support.  Most of you are a great example of what makes D3 basketball so wonderful and it was wise of ESPN to pick you up for their story.

I thought both teams played their hearts out and I am proud of our team for the way they played.  UPS was right in the game up to the last few minutes and if anything I feel the West Coast schools deserve more respect then many on here seem to give us credit for.  Puget Sound is just the top entry of some very competitive programs in the NWC and SCIAC.  It could have gone either way in the end and I think any one of the four teams in Appleton would have been strong contenders in Salem.

Best of luck to the Titans in the finals and when the sectionals are back in Tacoma again we will be sure to provide you with your own section - as you would deserve for making such a long trip to support your team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on March 15, 2006, 11:46:26 am
Good representation of the NWC on the all West Region Team.

1st Team:

Pecht

2nd Team:
Schmick

3rd Team:
Curtiss (3rd?!)
McVey  (3rd?!)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on March 15, 2006, 02:42:46 pm
Schmick, on 2nd team, All-Region?  Absolute JOKE.

Curtiss and McVey should both be MILES in front of him...

Anyway you argue it (team success...individual stats...postseason CONFERENCE team standings...), this is a fallacy...

Schmick over JOHN OLINGER is a joke, much less over the two guys on the LEAGUE CHAMPS who went to the ELITE EIGHT...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sciacguru on March 15, 2006, 06:35:14 pm
I am still trying to figure how Amir from Redlands got 1st team.....5-9 and 9-15 overall.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: skokomish on March 16, 2006, 10:16:06 pm
Sanity at Pacific Lutheran! 

The one thing the my alma mater has been unwilling to do is run off coaches that are dead weight.  For the few of us who have any pride left, this is good news:

http://www.plu.edu/athletics/mbball/2005-06%20releases/031506harshman.htm
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pgcooz on May 01, 2006, 06:04:36 pm
This board has been dead.  Any news on UPS recruits?  Is Bridgeland going to be there for awhile?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: blackhawks4 on May 11, 2006, 12:44:56 pm
Congrats to Coach Bridgeland ...now somebody else might have a chance to keep the NWC competitive!  But look out for the Loggers, with Head Coach Justin Lunt runnin' the show...WOW...could be exciting.  Look for UPS to repeat...no...3PEAT...no...4Peat?! in '07.  Can't say this will be my last post, but loyalties lie elsewhere.  Go Waves
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: SpooH SreggoL on May 15, 2006, 10:20:47 am
BHawks:   

Do you expect Hackett to let Lunt have his shot at running the show?  I know he was named interm coach, but it sounds like the situation is less than certain.  I assume Lunt would continue to run Bridgeland's system, which would keep up the excitement level for fans and hopefully retain most of the current players.  UPS could bring in someone else with more experience, but it would almost certainly be at the expense of 100 point games and 40 mintues of the press.  Ah, this is why athletic directors get paid the big bucks.  Wait, almost forgot that this was D3 for  mintue . . . 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on May 16, 2006, 08:56:32 am
SpooH SreggoL:

My two cents on the coaching position:  It is a safe choice for the AD to give Lunt a shot at the job.  It seems reasonable that EB would advocate for him to take over the program, and he does have connections with current players and recruits.  If a new staff is brought in and the program takes a substantial slide backwards, that then falls at the AD's feet.  The logic would be that she made a change when none was needed.  If, on the otherhand, Lunt takes over and doesn't have much success, I'd guess there would be more understanding for giving him a shot before a new staff was hired; not to say that students, alums, and the UPS administration would enjoy a step-back, but if one is to come it is "better" from the AD's perspective I would argue that it happen under Lunt then someone else.  Whoever comes in has a hell of a standard to meet.  I don't think that the program has to fall-off much, although the teams of recent years surly reflected their coaches personality.  A new identity will emerge I am sure, but there is still a lot of talent on that roster and coming in for the 06-07 season.  Logger Nation will be fine going forward.

Congrats to EB on the new position and best wishes at the D1 level.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on May 17, 2006, 11:06:26 am
Congrats to Coach B for making the jump to the big time...I'm sure he'll be successful in whatever role he plays on the Pepperdine staff...

Now, in regards to the state of the Loggers, I'd have to say the rest of the league has to be smiling, especially the folks at Whitworth and Willamette...Bridge was dominating the league, and regardless of who the Loggers put at the helm, they WILL NOT BE THE SAME.

a.  EB is gone, and with him, the person who pushed the buttons to get the Logger system to where it is (even if his assistant gets the job, he's NOT EB, and the system they run will be affected)

b.  Curtiss and McVey are gone. HUGE losses

c. EB leaving  will have a huge role in their ability to keep current players, as well as attract future recruits, because as BHawks was fond of saying, EB was killing everyone in the recruiting wars as well...

And on a side note, it probably means we're rid of BHawks on this board...which is, unfortunately, going to seriously dampen conversation around here...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on May 19, 2006, 03:10:48 pm
Bearcats,

While I agree with you that the rest of the league will have to be smiling at some level, I am sorry that the change at UPS is coming now.  I have to give EB a heckuva lot of credit for upping the bar in this league.  He did a tremendous job at UPS and his effort forced other coaches in the league to either match his effort, or fall by the wayside.  I think we saw Willamette and Whitworth respond this year. 

I am curious about the state of the UPS program, however.  How many of the players are like Blackhawks?  He made clear in his last post that his loyalty lies strickly with EB, and not with any school (as he showed when he transferred in).  How many other current players in the program have no real attachement to UPS?  Will they leave at the first sign of Lunt exerting his own authority in the program? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: 1992 on June 18, 2006, 02:23:26 am
Recruiting news???

Heard L&C, Whitworth, and Pacific all got very good transfers.  I'm sure Brigde did his thing for the Loggers again prior to leaving.

George Fox, Willamette, Linfield, PLU, Whitman?

 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on July 06, 2006, 05:34:30 pm
Props again to the NWC for the performance at the Spokane Hoopfest a couple weeks ago.  For those who don't know, Spokane's Hoopfest is the largest 3 on 3 street basketball tournament in the U.S. 

For the third year in a row, a team made up of three former Pirates (Depew, Bierlink, Chase Williams) and one former Pioneer (Mietus) made the Open Division semifinals.  Actually this group won the whole thing in 2004.  Another example of the quality of basketball in the NWC, especially when you get to see where most of the other teams are made of of former DI players.  This group has outdone every Gonzaga team over the last three years, which says a lot in this town.
Title: Season is Here
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on October 16, 2006, 03:02:36 pm
Now that practices have started for the hoops season, is anyone out there interested in some Preseason Predictions? I'm hoping the loss of Bridgeland at UPS doesn't mean the end of our friend BHawks, but I'm willing to bet it probably does...

As for me, I have high hopes for the WU this year, even though last year ended on such a down note (losses at UPS, then in the tourney at Whitworth) and the graduation of John Olinger and 4 other quality seniors...

The WU brings back CJ Stuvland (all-conference), Josh Erickson, Ian Mansfield, and David Fife, and it sounds like a talented group of new players...

Before making any predictions myself, does anybody have any news on the other contenders (UPS, Whitworth, LC, etc)??

Or maybe the loss of Bhawks really will mean the death of this board as well...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 18, 2006, 08:38:57 pm
Unfortunately bcatsfan I think you're right you may have lost your loyal better half Bhawks.  Although I hope to see him back for another year his loyalties I'm afraid may lie elswhere.  I myself can't promise the same quick wit, daring predictions, and overall lovable qualities as my predecessor but I do hope to have a good time discussing NWC bball and in particular the Dynasty that is... the UPS loggers!

Lets get down to business

Although a change has come about with the loss of a head coach and an All American (Chase Curtiss) don't expect UPS bball to fall from the top of the league.  New head coach Justin Lunt is more than capable of taking over this year, he had two years of experience as assistant and he knows what it takes for this team to win. 

Although the Logs are extremely young they make up for it with talent.  Antoine Williams and Jason Foster speak for themselves, they both had a great Freshman year and are ready to carry a heavier leadership and scoring load this year.  Ryan Delong is back, he will have much more freedom this year and will be a big scoring threat night in and night out (I expect him to be in the hunt for POY at the end of the season).  Taylor Marsh is an animal from behind the three point line and if he plays as well as he has this summer he will be a huge offensive weapon.  Also watch out for Robert Kraul and James Pinkney they are both monsters on the glass and have great athleticism on defense. 

To be honest I don't know much about the new Fresmen but I have heard they are looking good.  Overall, I fully expect UPS to have a great shot at taking home their forth consecutive League championship.

I'm looking forward to hearing about the rest of the teams around the NWC.  I'm still thinking about my preseason all league picks but I will come up with them shortly. 

Bcats I hope we can get a few more people to join us...Good luck this year I can't wait for the season to start!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on October 19, 2006, 02:40:54 pm
Logs,

Good to hear another voice in this valley of silence...

I have heard that LC will be improved this season, and that Pacific has a ton of new guys...cannot confirm any of this, but if that's true, I think it makes the NWC race very interesting...

I'd say Willamette, Whitworth, UPS, LC, and Pacific would be in the fight for the top 3 playoff spots, with Fox (lost a LOT), Whitman (always average), Linfield (big rebuilding job) and PLU (bigger rebuilding job) kind of falling by the wayside sometime in January...

More exact predictions to come...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 19, 2006, 04:40:05 pm
It's seems like much of the league will be trying to rebuild this year...it could make for a very interesting race.  With the exception of Stuvland and Kyle Born all of the first and second team all league selections for 05-06 were seniors...meaning much of the talent is gone.  I realize this isn't the only indication of the overall quality of the NWC but it looks like there is plenty of room for young talent to take over this year. 

Some teams will have a much MUCH harder time rebuilding than others (PLU/Linfield) as you mentioned, but for the top half of the league it should be a good show. 

My prediction is that UPS, WU, and Whitworth will be the top three again.  Pacific did have some good big guys last year but with there only real scoring threat gone (Kawazoe) they will be even more hard pressed to find scoring this season, unless they picked up some talented transfers.  I also think this could be the year Whitman makes it out of the basement of the conference.  With Born back (he should be in the hunt for POY) as well as Warner and Faidley, it will be a rough trip to Walla Walla this year.  As for LC...I'm gonna have to see it to believe it, they have been a huge dissapointment the last two years and they are gonna need some bigger, more talanted players for much to change. 

Well, that's about all I got...still thinking about my pre season awards.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on October 19, 2006, 06:25:02 pm
AHHH Yes!! I found it.  Excuse me as I am new to this whole internet business.  I just got the DSL hooked up this week and a buddy of mine told me about this www. web site.  You could say I have followed NWC basketball for quite some time now and now I have somewhere to talk about it!

I read some of the past posts to try and educate myself on some of the discussion.  It has brought out some thoughts I would like to share.

This B-Hawks character that you speak of seems very confident in the Bridgeland Loggers, and rightfully so.  I take it he is off the board now. Too bad.  It seemed like he brought salsa to the party.

I mention this because, in reference to B-Hawks, it was mentioned that loyalties tend to run with coaches.  Well, whatever they have in the Tacoma water says that loyalties may be strongest among players and those who go through it day in and day out. (Please excuse the “old-school” cliché, I am an old school guy). This may be one of the best things the Loggers have going for them.

Allow me to explain:
I assume that you are a UPS fan UPSoundLogs? Well correct me if I am wrong, but I heard that, despite the coaching change, UPS has everyone returning from last years team that is eligible.

Anyone who has seen NWC hoops knows that each year when the Loggers come to town they have a bench with more new faces than the freshman section of a high school yearbook.  Now that they have a group who has played together and decided to all come back together, it could be very dangerous to the rest of the league.  The Loggers now may not have the same growing pains as they might have incurred in the past and can begin to fine tune even earlier.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on October 19, 2006, 11:29:20 pm
1. UPS
2. WU
3. Whit.

Loggers don't lose more than 2 NWC games and take a 4th title in 4 year.  Lunt should win COY honors but won't as the coaches think a blind school girl could roll the ball out and let the Loggers win 14 games, so some other general gets the hardware.  Fine, JL can take his ring to the NCAA's with a first round bye and second round home win over a SCIAC school...again.  Then off to Wisc. and all bets are off.  You heard it hear first.  RIP Bhawks.
Title: Predicitions
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on October 20, 2006, 11:55:07 am
I agree with the comment about Bourne (sp?)...for a guy his size, he surprised me at Willamette with how light on his feet he was...

Now, for my picks:

1. Whitworth
2. UPS
3. Willamette
4. LC
5. Pacific
6. Whitman
7. Linfield
8. George fox
9. PLU

Obviously, I believe my Bearcats capable of winning the whole thing in the NWC, but to avoid being too much like Bhawks, I'll settle them into the third playoff spot (and in reality, when WU goes 1-4 against Whitworth/UPS last year, you can't justify picking your favorite team over those ones)...

Whitworth loses the POY, but rumor has it they've got some nice transfers in, to go along with BWilliams and JYoung, and they played very well down the stretch last year, so I like their odds...

The 3Peat champs, UPS, does have a lot back, but I don't think you can under estimate how much Curtiss and McVey really meant to them...losing them and EB is too much for a 4th title, but expect them to still have a say in the NWC tourney...

Willamette loses Johnny O, but brings back a solid backcourt in Erickson, Fife, and Stuvland, and if it can get consistent play out of Mansfield and whoever they start at the other spot, they should be very good...the question is whether they can find a way to beat Whitworth (I think their website said its been 7 or 8 straight to the Pirates??)

I think LC's pg (Tillery?) was the quickest I saw last year at WU's home games...and overall they seemed to have more talent than what they showed...I'm picking them to be much improved...

Pacific is a tough place to play, and their new coach has some recruiting ties in Cali, so I find it hard to believe they won't be at least mid level this year...

All-NWC picks later...

Nice to see everyone on the Discussion, and it looks like Loggerville will be holding the BHawks mantle of Tacoma for the year...I wonder if Pinecone (Whitworth) is still around...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 20, 2006, 01:55:37 pm
I've got...

UPS
Willamette
Whitworth
Whitman
Pacific
LC
George Fox
Linfield
PLU

UPS...obviously I have to put my guys on top ;D. Not just cause they are my guys but I do believe they will be able to carry on with the Loggers success.  Lunt and the rest of the coaching staff have had great experience from the last few years, I think they have a rough road ahead but will be a power in the NWC and will 4peat as league champs.

I like Willamette this year, I think they had some really good young players last year that will develop nicely, if Stuvland can shoot the ball at the same level as last year but on a more consistent basis I think they will be very difficult to beat especially at home...those drawbridge hoops can't be underestimated.  JO will be missed as a leader/scorer but I still think WU will be tough this year. 

Unfortunately I don't know much about Whitworth, but they do have Williams back and it sounds like they will be getting some good transfers.  Having one of the most difficult places to play on the longest road trip of the year will help them a lot, they shouldn't fall off too much. 

To be honest the rest of the league was a toss up for me, I think Whitman will be tough to beat, especially with Kyle born averaging 50 and 25 as a senior and they have a big advantage in that teams have to drive so far to play them, the Whitworth/Whitman road trip is the toughest by far.

George Fox has been on the decline ever since they lost Gaymen...I see that exceleratiing with the losses of Shmick and Szalay. 

Simply based off of the last couple years I think the bottom of the league will all be equally weak but will suprise teams that don't come in prepared (ex. Whitworth losing to PLU last year).






Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on October 24, 2006, 12:43:17 am
Hello Bearcats3, Loggerville and all - I forget to check this board for a couple weeks and suddenly its come to life, which is great!  Looking forward to another great year of NWC basketball.

I don't know much about the newcomers at Whitworth (transfers, freshmen), but have heard from some close to the program that coaches feel its the best incoming group in at least ten years.  What I do know is that the Pirates will have the most veteran and versatile back court in Williams and Young in the NWC.  I think they will have really good years.  And James Jones could be the breakout player in the conference this year.  He had huge games off of the bench against UPS, and will be a starter this year.

The word is that in addition to the usual suspects (Whitworth, UPS, Willamette), Pacific could be a surprise.  We'll see how things play out.  I think L&C will be right there for a conference playoff spot as well.

Looking forward to some great games and basketball conversation.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on October 25, 2006, 02:05:50 pm
Predictions:
UPS
WW
WU
Pacific
Whitman
LC
PLU
George Fox
Linfield

You have to give it to the reigning champs.  What did they lose? They graduated McVey, Curtiss, and some non-factor that held up the end of the bench.  I’m not sure if Walker graduated, but it seems like he has been there for a long enough time for him to go. Maybe some clarification UPSoundLogs? Either way you can say the same thing after every UPS title run…they lost Glynn/Mendoza….they lost Cross/Shelton…point being that like every team year in and year out, this years Loggers lost an integral part of last year’s squad, but this cannot be held against them.  Their new coach was there for two of the title runs, so I am sure he did his homework going into this season just like they have every other season.  I am not even sure if I would take McVey and Curtiss in that hypothetical “two on two” tournament anyway.

The question is not whether UPS is capable of winning it, but is how more has the rest of the league closed the gap? 

WW has to be reckoned with.  They do have an experienced backcourt, but I think what will be more interesting is who they bring in to fill their smaller forward/bigger guard type spots. Those spots have made the silent difference for WW over the recent years, i.e. Bierlink, Pecht, Tucker, so it will be interesting to see what kind of play they get out of that spot.

Willamette year in and year out has one of the most fundamental half court defenses on the west coast with no one ever making it all the way to the rim.  That teamed with a favorable home court, will make for contention for the NWC tournament no matter who James brings in.

I think the surprise team will be Pacific.  Lowery posted some good wins last year, and nearly pulled off some big ones at home vs UPS and Southern Oregon at home.  Having his first own recruiting class will be a big help for him, but he is probably one more year and recruiting class away from the top three.  Still, look for some good games from this group.

As for breakout player of the year as brought up by PineCone: Ryan DeLong, UPS.  I have seen this kid play for the past two years and he is the most basketball talented player to wear a UPS uniform out of all their runs.  He never seemed like he had the full green light though.  Maybe a new staff at UPS will change that.

Don’t look for him to get the POY though, that will probably go to Born over at Whitman.  Honestly, I am just going with league policy.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 25, 2006, 07:41:34 pm
Gil-
I can't completely clarify for you what Walker's situation is, I do believe he has finished up his eligibility but then again I also thought that about last year.  If the logs do get him back it would be a great help leadership wise they are a very young team...I think a "supersenior" would help some.  Even though he's very small (I think he's listed as about 5'8) he plays extremely hard and seems to be one of the guys that allows UPS to play at such a frantic pace.

Also...although I think you have some valid points about the loggers losses from last season I believe you underestimate the role Curtiss played.  I do think Puget Sound will find their way without him but he was the unquestioned leader to their squad.  It's not so much his points/shooting/toughness that will be missed but his relationship with their coach.  I have heard several people say that Curtiss and the departed head coach Bridgeland had almost a father/son type relationship.  Curtiss was able to be an extension of the head coach out on the floor, that is a huge quality to have. 

You are right though, the Loggers have been able to overcome losses in the past it should be a rough start without upperclassmen leadership but I have faith the logs will pull through. 

By the way does anyone know what Curtiss is doing currently?  I thought he was definitely good enough to play overseas. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on October 26, 2006, 04:02:59 pm
Josh Walker has finished his eligibilty @UPS, although his brother, Jeff, is still on the team. Josh was a "supersenior" last season, due to the fact that he broke his ankle as a true freshman and redshirted the next season, still recovering from the injury. He will still be on the Logger bench, though, as he is helping coach the Loggers. He will be missed just as much as Curtiss and McVey, as he was a tenacious defender and rebounder, despite his size. He was so aggressive, that he was able to draw tons of fouls and get to the free throw line.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on October 26, 2006, 04:36:51 pm
I think you'd get a lot of arguments as to whether or not you can put Josh Walker in the same category as Curtiss and McVey...that might be stretching it a BIT.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on October 26, 2006, 05:19:09 pm
I think you'd get a lot of arguments as to whether or not you can put Josh Walker in the same category as Curtiss and McVey...that might be stretching it a BIT.





Well, he didn't score as much as those other two, but he was their top defender and constantly was harassing opposing players. He had a knack of getting to the free throw line, picking up big rebounds, making steals, and taking lots of charges. He was the intangible type player that is always tough to replace.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on October 26, 2006, 06:48:58 pm
he was a tenacious defender and rebounder, despite his size.
Even though he's very small (I think he's listed as about 5'8)

In speaking about Walker you guys make him seem Earl Boykins/Mugsy Bogues like, almost a Rudy type character.  Maybe I am getting it wrong, and you probably know better than me Penn and UPSound, but when I saw him play that was not the case at all.  He seemed to me to be at least 5'9.  This is not too uncommon in the NWC as most many teams have scrappy smaller guards that can get it done i.e. Schmick GFU, Warner Whit.

As for him being the best defender Penn, well that UPS defense is so intense and crazy, I think the best UPS defender is a timid point guard.  It seemed to me that the UPS defense either works as a whole or fails as a whole making it difficult to distinguish one guy as the best.  I will give it to him though, Walker was not afraid to hit the floor.

Penn. could you answer UPSound's question about Curtiss playing overseas?  I am curious myself.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on October 27, 2006, 04:49:05 pm
The thing w/ UPS is that most of the time they play w/ a 4 guard lineup, so that would leave one of their guards against one of the opposing team's post players often. So, they automatically had a disadvantage on the boards, but they make up for it with their gambling defense, and offensive rebounds. Despite their smaller size, they still boxed out relatively well.

Walker is about 6-0 or 6-1, but he played bigger than that, but still had the quickness to defend opposing perimeter players.

As far as Curtiss, I think that I heard that he is at grad school somewhere. Not sure if he is playing at all.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on October 27, 2006, 05:23:49 pm
Penn-
Walker between 6' and 6-1?  The only way he is over 6' is if he's wearing heals!!!  I'm a little over 6' and when I walked by him after watching a game one time I was looking down at him, he's 5'10 if he's lucky, you are right though he plays bigger than he really is...anyways that's enough little man talk.

Penn do you have any pre-season predictions, you seem to be knowlegeable about the Logger program.  Do you have any information about their incoming freshman?  Did they get any new big guys? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on October 27, 2006, 06:17:14 pm
I'm good friends w/ Walker and I'm just a little over 6 foot. He's about my height or a half inch taller.

Preseason predictions? I don't know. I'm a little out of the circle now. I'm back in Montana now, instead of Tacoma. But I'd predict that UPS would have to be the favorite to repeat yet again based on who they have back. It seems every year that UPS is able to bring in a few talented freshmen, and I don't doubt that they were able to again this year, even with the loss of Bridgeland.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 01, 2006, 12:29:06 am
Heard from a source that the Pirates had a great scrimmage against NIC yesterday.  Though a JC, NIC is full scholarship and usually sends guys to D1 every year.  Most years they beat the Pirates in the early scrimmage.  Source told me the Bucs won by more than 30. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 01, 2006, 11:15:15 am
This is probably a stupid question but...What does NIC stand for and where are they from?  Sounds like Whitworth will be tough this year if NIC is as good as you say conefan.   Any info yet on their new guys...position, size, age, scoring, etc?   I keep hearing how good the WW tranfers/recruits are but I haven't seen any of the facts yet.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: lcalum on November 01, 2006, 06:29:18 pm
Here is a site  to check if guys are playing overseas:

http://www.usbasket.com/usaabroad.asp


they have done a good job keeping this pretty up to date. the only problem i have seen are the LC guys are listed under LC State.

hope LC does better this year...they are suppose to be better having gotten a couple of transfers in but we all know that doesnt mean a thing until they perform. will be tough to beat UPS with the experience the team has the past few years in winning. curious to see if there will be any change with bridgeland not there. he is a great coach and gets the most out of his guys...hope that continues. always fun to see guys succeed and play after college since they are coming out of the small school leagues.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 01, 2006, 07:23:38 pm
NIC = North Idaho College

I looked at the roster on the website and saw three JC transfer forwards who are in the 6-3 to 6-5 range.  I won't really know more till I see them on the floor.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 03, 2006, 12:39:57 pm
Geez, no love for the NWC from D3hoops preseason poll.  UPS #22/Whitworth is receiving votes...and what's worse is that a SCIAC team is ahead of the NWC crew, Occidental #20? Ouch!!  I'm hoping everyone does well in the preseason against other d3 competition so we can get some more respect for the conference. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on November 03, 2006, 02:17:10 pm
I will have to agree with you UPSoundLogs.  The ranking of Occidental ahead of UPS was quite disappointing.  The SCIAC has been knocked out of the tournament the past three years by the Loggers.  As for the 22 ranking, it is not that surprising and somewhat justified.  I do not need to go into the same old story about what the Loggers lost, yada yada yada, but in comparing the Logger’s rank to the other teams they encountered in the tournament, Augustana dropped to 24 and Illinois Wesleyan completely dropped out of the top 25.  The worst part is that for the NWC to gain some ground it looks like the rest of the Top 25 will just have to lose.  Neither UPS or WW are playing any teams that could possibly give them a jump in the ranks just on beating them alone.

Thanks, Icalum, for the info regarding the overseas hoops and welcome to the board.  Most surprising is that McVey is not playing anywhere.  That kid was a beast inside and was still able to get off the ground.  He had the most pro potential out of all of last year’s group. 

Curtiss is not playing anywhere either, but I thought his job was a lot easier anyway with the triple teams McVey would see nightly. I didn’t see anything on there about Pecht, after all, he did beat Curtiss out for the MVP.

Any preseason scrimmage news around the league?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: lcalum on November 04, 2006, 11:18:03 pm
for mcvey, it does take time for the overseas gigs to come about sometimes. i know a few of the LC guys had some time off before things developed. also a matter of who you know and get as an agent. its hard today with the game of basketball being so global for small school guys to get a crack at it.

the pioneers played pretty well against Lane CC and the UO scrimmage was a lot better than the score indicated. so of their guys have worked hard in the offseason and it looks as though they should give it a better run this year. we will see as the season progresses......
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 06, 2006, 07:52:40 am
Geez, no love for the NWC from D3hoops preseason poll.  UPS #22/Whitworth is receiving votes...and what's worse is that a SCIAC team is ahead of the NWC crew, Occidental #20? Ouch!!  I'm hoping everyone does well in the preseason against other d3 competition so we can get some more respect for the conference. 

From November 17 onward, it's not "preseason" anymore. It's the regular season. Those non-conference games count towards your record, too, you know.

(Congrats upon being the first person who made me post this reminder this season!  :D)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 10, 2006, 11:35:28 pm
Shameless Self-Promotion

The season starts in a week, don't forget to join the Survivor League and new the Nationwide Pick Em League in the multi-regional board!!!  ;D

For the record, I picked Whitworth! lol.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: PostUPS on November 14, 2006, 12:58:02 am

As for the status on the graduated Loggers - McVey landed an outstanding position with a securities company and Curtiss is working on his Masters at a college in the midwest.  Curtiss did play a stint in Australia over the summer.

As good as they are on the court - most Loggers are students first and athletes second.  An even greater compliment to what Bridgeland accomplished and Lunt is maintaining.  These guys will excel even more in their working careers... and life goes on after basketball... as much as we would like to see them play even more.  But there are some impressive new guys coming in this year and five quality-minute players are returning.  Should be another exciting run at the Fieldhouse.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on November 15, 2006, 09:36:46 pm
From November 17 onward, it's not "preseason" anymore. It's the regular season. Those non-conference games count towards your record, too, you know.

(Congrats upon being the first person who made me post this reminder this season!  :D)

LMAO... ;D :D ;) I can't believe I missed this before.  Too funny.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 18, 2006, 03:16:49 am
The Whitworth Pirates won big tonight in Chicago.  Final score:
Whitworth 95
Eastern 67
http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/Eastern.htm (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/Eastern.htm)

They conclude their trip to Chicago with a game tomorrow night against Wheaton.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on November 18, 2006, 10:49:58 am
Well, just another 30+ win on opening night in Tacoma.  Umm, anyone seen that Medved guy before, he's kind of got some range 8)  Welcome back CM, here's to a good year for you.  Foster looks great, Delong was willing to share the rock - the fellas look good.  Lunt has to be feeling better about getting the first one out of the way.  I don't care who you are, at what level, that first game where all eyes are on you as the HC is one you'll remember.  Congrats to him and the Loggers on a nice little 124 opening night sleeper.  Off to pre-funk THE GAME.  GO BIG BLUE.

RIP Bo.  You'll be missed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 18, 2006, 03:27:04 pm
After jumping out to a 20 point lead in about the first ten minutes of the game the loggers cruised to an easy win.  Even though UC Santa Cruz is not by any means good competition UPS looked better than I expected for such a young team.  Foster and Kraul are going to be a tough inside matchup for any team to deal with. With Medved, Marsh, and...well just about everyone else on the team bombing away from three point land it opens up the inside for the big guys to go to work, especailly on the offensive glass.  I can't wait for the logs to face some more formidable competion so I can see what the team is really made of.  Good win Fellas!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on November 19, 2006, 12:34:45 am
This is not a comfortable true story but it helps diagnose symptoms of why LINFIELD has become only a football/baseball school.

   One rainy Christmas vacation 7-8 years ago I wandered on down to Long Beach City College to see a high school basketball tournament. It was absolutely great. In the next couple of months I saw Jared and Jason Collins, Paul Pierce, Baron Davis, Tremaine Fowlkes, Tyson Chandler, Tayshawn Prince, Jason Kapono, among others, play high school basketball. Some I got to watch for 4 years.
   The number one rated L.A. City team that season was Fremont.  I happened to see them play and found out a kid I knew when he was 10 was on the team. I discovered that he had been an All-League defensive back that football season and that he had been one of the fastest guys in the City in the 200m the previous couple of years. He was not a starter on the b-ball team that lost the City Championship game to Crenshaw (again) but he did have a career game in the City Finals.
His physical stature was about 5’9”, 165 lbs. I remember him being a good student and I saw “LINFIELD” written all over him. I checked around about the new NCAA provisos and I sent an LA City championship game tape to the coach.  No response.
   Six months later at a Homecoming game I sought out the basketball coach, introduced myself and asked if he received my tape.
AND I QUOTE  “We thought he was too good for us.”!!!!!!!!
With my jaw still drooping on my toes I chance to run into a Hall of Fame football coach from LINFIELD who shook his head and told me I should know his response would have been much different.
   












Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 19, 2006, 03:54:08 am
Whitworth won again tonight against Wheaton (Ill) 70-67.  Wheaton has an all-american so they can't be that bad.  The Pirates are now 2-0 and headed to Hawaii for a 7 day vacation...I mean to play a few basketball games.

http://www.wheaton.edu/Athletics/mbasketball/index.html (http://www.wheaton.edu/Athletics/mbasketball/index.html)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Loggerville on November 19, 2006, 09:26:33 am
130 points...school record in 3's....and funny, that Medved guy seemed to have a decent night again!  22 pts on 6-7 three's in 20 minutes; not a bad night, you'd think someone would guard that guy.  Quality win over a average team to be sure. Forcing 73 T.O. in two games shows me that the pressure package didn't leave town with EB.  Loggers head south for a pair of non-NCAA games in Oregon before the Turkey Day break.  Good luck fellas.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 19, 2006, 12:21:20 pm
Big win for the Pirates at one of DIII's toughest venue's last night.  Bryan Williams named tournament MVP after getting 20 assists in 2 games.  Gonna be a fun year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 20, 2006, 04:42:02 am
I posted at length about the Whitworth @ Wheaton game on CCIW Chat. Bryan Williams was simply amazing. He put on perhaps the best performance by a point guard that I've seen in this decade -- and I usually see anywhere from 25 to 50 D3 games a year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on November 21, 2006, 03:43:16 am
Thanks GS - I appreciate the feedback, and the answer at length on the CCIW board.  I think the senior back court could take the Pirates a long way this season.  BTW - it's Jim, not Jack, H.  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 24, 2006, 08:17:57 pm
Whitworth remains undefeated at the US Bank - Whitworth Maui Invitational.  They beat Bethany Lutheran of Minnesota 68-56 in the first game.  And beat Cal Lutheran 68-55 the following day.

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/HawaiiSched.htm (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/HawaiiSched.htm)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 27, 2006, 01:36:59 pm
Finally NWC regular season starts up this weekend!  There should be a good show in Tacoma on Friday night.  I don't know if a Stuvlandless Willamette stands any kind of a chance against the Loggers AT HOME, but I'll pay to watch anyways.  I look forward to seeing how UPS bounces back after a tough loss to Warner Pacific, my guess is a 20+ point win. 

Do we have any other predictions about games around the league...Bcatsfan....are you still there buddy?

Pinecones- After Mr. Sager expressing his new found man crush on Brian Williams over several lengthy posts I know that BW is playing well so far this season.  Do you have anymore insight on the other players from Whitworth.  It looks like they are playing great and have gotten some big wins to start the season.  From the numbers it looks like JJones and Hesunsnufulupogus are putting up decent numbers, how do the new guys look thus far?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on November 27, 2006, 04:18:17 pm

I've been slow to post as I try to get a feel for WU...without actually seeing them play.

Obviously, the fact that they are missing 3 starters has dampered their start, but in the end it could be a blessing, as assuming Erickson, Fife and Stuvland return, the guys playing now should be seasoned and improved, giving the team a ton of depth...

I also believe the loss of a strong group of seniors (Olinger, Luchterhand, Miller, Baran, Garrelts) has been a bigger hurdle to overcome than people thought, as their experience in the heat of the battle obviously was helpful....

1-3 is obviously not where they Bearcats probably envisioned themselves, but its certainly not time to panic...WU is still talented, well-coached, and in all honesty, the fact they are probably out of AT-LARGE consideration after the Cali losses is not a big deal...the team should be focused on getting in the top 3 of the NWC and winning the league playoffs (as at-large's in the NWC have been few and far between anyway)

Conference play begins Friday in their own personal hell house (UPS) as the Bearcats have been soundly beaten the past 3 times in Tacoma...time to turn things around...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on November 27, 2006, 11:53:13 pm
Good to see the board has picked up....

It seems that Whitworth is off to a pretty good start.  I am not sure just how good Wheaton is, but a road win against the upper half of the CCIW is always a good thing for the resume....and for the league.  Looks like a two horse race is beginning to develop.

Its too bad that Willamette could not have come out with a couple of victories in Cali, but it seems like they have bigger fish to fry: starting off the season in the wrong side of Tacoma, especially after UPS just came off of a loss.  Speaking of that, looks like UPS was taken down by Warner Pacific this weekend.  Possible chink in the armor?  Care to comment UPSoundLogs?

Does anyone know what is up with Whitman's schedule? Corban College and then straight into NWC action...does not seem too sensible.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on November 28, 2006, 03:10:54 pm
Its too bad that Willamette could not have come out with a couple of victories in Cali, but it seems like they have bigger fish to fry: starting off the season in the wrong side of Tacoma, especially after UPS just came off of a loss.  Speaking of that, looks like UPS was taken down by Warner Pacific this weekend.  Possible chink in the armor?  Care to comment UPSoundLogs?

I wouldn't put too much stock into UPS' loss to Warner Pacific. WP was a very good NAIA team last year (top 10 maybe?) and defeated UPS at UPS last season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on November 28, 2006, 07:09:34 pm
Newest top 25 rankings were put up...

#18 Whitworth
#22 UPS

Should be an interesting season.  Maybe this year the NWC will get two teams into the tourney.  I think last year's Whitworth team was just as good as UPS' and could have made a little run in the tourney.  We'll see how UPS and Willamette really are in a few days, while Whitworth opens up conference play against Pacific on friday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 29, 2006, 09:41:33 am
This past weekend I went and watched Occidental play at CSU Stanislaus. As I was looking through the program, I noticed a Stephen Chang on the Notre Dame de Namur (D2) team. It says his previous school was UPS. Just thought some of the UPS folks might be interested.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on November 30, 2006, 05:05:30 pm
Chang only played one year for UPS and then transfered.  He was pretty good though his freshman year.  How did he play for Notre Dame de Namur? Thanks for the info.

It's nice to see two NWC schools in the top 25 this week, I can't even remember the last time that happened...maybe 02-03 with WW and LC? I'm not sure?  Anyways it's good to see Whitworth back on the National stage with UPS.  Hopefully both teams can stick around in the rankings for a while, atleast long enough to see a top 25 matchup in the NWC!!!

Gil- I agree with Penn, I wouldn't read too much into the UPS loss to Warner Pacific.  Although I was dissapointed to see UPS lose to them two years in a row...ouch! WP is a tough NAIA team with some really good players, one of their guards averages 25 and put up 39 agianst the logs....ouch again!!!  I think its good for the young UPS team to lose early on and hopefully learn from it so they don't make the same mistakes during confrence play.  From the numbers it looked like most of the loggers played well, they just have to play some D. 

Can't wait for Friday, I'll be in Tacoma!!!!  Judging by the crowds I've seen at the UPS games so far this year it shold be a loud one.  I hope WU is ready so I can watch a competitive game. 

Go Logs!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on November 30, 2006, 11:35:15 pm
UPSoundLogs, I didn't get to see Chang play. I arrived at the arena between games and only saw Oxy - Stan State.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on December 01, 2006, 09:32:23 pm
That's interesting to hear about Chang. I thought that I heard that he was going to Menlo when he left UPS, since he was from near the area. Nice to know he's still playing though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on December 02, 2006, 01:22:57 am
UPS/Willamette going to double OT.  Willamette had a 4 pt lead with :34 to go in the OT and Willamette turns it over on its last three possessions.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on December 02, 2006, 01:41:04 am
pennstlbu, Notre Dame de Namur is just down the road from Menlo, so he did go back home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 02, 2006, 02:41:05 am
Whitworth held off a tough Pacific team.  The Pirates offense didn't play a great game but the defense held onto the lead against the Pacific Boxer's streaky shooting.  Here's the write up from the Whitworth SID...

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/Pac1.htm (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/Pac1.htm)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on December 02, 2006, 12:41:19 pm
pennstlbu, Notre Dame de Namur is just down the road from Menlo, so he did go back home.

OK, that makes sense. I probably just heard wrong that he was going to Menlo and that he was going to a school near Menlo.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on December 02, 2006, 12:43:26 pm
Sounded like a crazy game night @ UPS. 140-137 Logger victory in 3OT! Teams combined for about 100 fouls shots and 70+ fouls.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 03, 2006, 09:25:07 pm
Whitworth starts out NWC by going 2-0.  They beat LC last night 82-73.  This time the D didn't look great.  LC is a good team and made 52% of their shots but too many were easy open looks around the perimeter.  It's a good thing Whitworth shot over 60% from the field (50% from three-point range).  Here's the realease...

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/L&C1.htm (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/L&C1.htm)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on December 04, 2006, 11:50:05 am
Tough, tough weekend for the Bearcats...140-137 loss at UPS was amazing to hear on the radio, much less for anyone who was lucky enough to be there I'd imagine...WU had its chances, as it seemed there were at least 3 times they appeared to have won the game...

PLU must be improved, as they are undefeated...can't help but think that the UPS loss cost Willamette two games...

1-5, 0-2 is a big hole...but its a 3 team playoff, and if the 'Cats can rebound and just get in, who knows...they are obviously very capable, considering they went blow for blow with the 3 time champs on their own home floor...

What a game...I was exhausted listening, I don't know how Craig Spivey(?) kept up with the announcing on the radio...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 04, 2006, 03:07:18 pm
The bearcats proved to be much more of a challenge than I thought they would be on Friday night, I figured that without Stuvland they wouldn't put up a good fight...I was way off.  The triple OT was exhausting and at times very painful to watch.  Both teams had several oppurtunities to put the game away but there were many lucky/boneheaded/horrible plays made by both sides that allowed the other team back in.  The crowd was great and I was thankful that for the most part the refs allowed the players to decide the game (meaning there was an equal amount of bad calls for both teams). 

I was impressed by Nugent from WU (freshman I think?), he gave UPS the most trouble for sure he'll be a great player in the NWC over the next few years.  Kraul from UPS also had a great game, he's solid in the post and great on the boards. 

I wasn't able to catch the GFU game at UPS but it sounded like they won with a lot more Breathing room.

Two hard fought NWC wins for the Loggers so far!  Hopefully that's a sign of things to come. 

I also saw that PLU went 2-0 on the weekend ??? I had to look at the scores twice.  Does anyone have an idea of who is playing well for them and how they are undeafeted?  I checked the box scores but was anyone at those games to see who's good, I was pretty suprised to see they beat WU so easily.  Maybe its just that the curse of Harshman is lifted?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 05, 2006, 12:58:22 am
Initial impressions of the Whitworth team after seeing them in person for the first time -

First - if all the pieces are working at the same time, this is the most talented team since the NAIA finals team of 1995-96.  I only saw glimpses of it this weekend, but it was there.  Hasenfus is strong in the middle, they can shoot the lights out with Jones, Young and Williams, and they have an athletic and creative player in Symes.  Symes is more naturally athletic than anybody I've seen in a Pirate uniform in 20 years.  Willemsen offers a great option off of the bench, and Jurich provides solid bench minutes as well.
Second - The challenge for Hayford is to make all the pieces fit together.  Its still early yet, so not much to be concerned about yet.  I would expect by mid January that the team will be hittin on more cylanders at one time.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 05, 2006, 01:09:55 am
Quick impressions of the other teams, based on scores to date:

Doing as expected: UPS, Pacific, George Fox, Linfield
Doing better than expected: PLU, L&C
Doing worse than expected: Willamette, Whitman

Still early though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 05, 2006, 10:32:44 am
Wow...Whitworth cracked the top ten, that was fast!  For a NWC team to jump to number 8 after only spending two weeks in the rankings is a nice suprise....Congrats WW.  UPS is still holding strong at 21, they are still going through some growing pains.  Being that they are so young means they are very inconsistent from what I've seen so far, but I still think they will be in a great position to make the tournament towards the end of the season. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 06, 2006, 12:05:59 am
The worst part is that for the NWC to gain some ground it looks like the rest of the Top 25 will just have to lose.  Neither UPS or WW are playing any teams that could possibly give them a jump in the ranks just on beating them alone.


I apologize for quoting myself, but I wanted to get to it before anyone else did.  So can anyone pass the ketchup?  The foot in my mouth will taste much better that way.

I think I am with UPSoundLogs on this one; the jump by WW into the eight spot is quite surprising.  I did not realize how highly the voters of the d3 poll valued  HOME victories against Walla Walla (2-8), Pacific (2-4), and LC (5-3).  Apparently it is worth 10 spots on the polls.

I am not complaining too much though, I am all for respect for the NWC on the national level even if the logic behind it may seem a little off.
 
 
 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 06, 2006, 12:57:39 am
Gilbert - I think the jump in the rankings have more to do with the voters having a better understanding of what the win at Wheaton meant.  Since Wheaton went on to beat both Calvin and Hope last week to move into the top 25 themselves.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on December 06, 2006, 01:28:28 pm
While obviously Willamette's record of 1-5 is NOT where they usually are/should be, I would venture to guess that if Whitworth started this season without Williams, Young, and Jones, or UPS started without Williams, Marsh, and Delong, they would be struggling themselves...

Willamette has played all but 4 minutes of their first 6 games without their projected starters at 1 (Erickson), 2 (Stuvland), and 3 (Fife)...now, I realize eventually you are what you are, but that's a HUGE chunk of your pie missing, and the fact they still battled UPS to a 140-137 decision speaks volumes of what they can/will be capable of...Mansfield has been huge, Nugent is shooting some ridiculously high %, Michael Smith (who I don't know if I've ever seen him before) scored 18 ppg over the weekend, and they've got Michael Plank (a football guy) scoring 17 points at UPS...

Now, the radio made it sound like Erickson is probably done...so they're not getting him back...but Stuvland and Fife, should be soon...add that to this mix, and they're still a legit threat for that 3rd spot...all you have to do is get in...

On a different note Pinecone...how would you compare this new guy to Tucker/Pecht/Depew?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 06, 2006, 04:31:36 pm
Gilbert - I think the jump in the rankings have more to do with the voters having a better understanding of what the win at Wheaton meant.  Since Wheaton went on to beat both Calvin and Hope last week to move into the top 25 themselves.

Bingo.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 06, 2006, 07:46:03 pm
PineCone, Pat-

I hate to do this as I am a NWC fan and want to see the conference succeed on the national scene.  However, this is a discussion board so let's discuss.

My concern is the "great leap" from 18 to 8. You both cite a realization of the comittee as seeing a new "value" in the win versus Wheaton as they beat Calvin and Hope.  It was a good win which cannot be denied, but Calvin is 3-3 and is no longer in the top 25 and Hope is 2-2 and ranked 21.  Yes, both teams have played relativiely tough schedules, but it was WHEATON that beat Calvin and Hope and not Whitworth.  When you retroactively put value of wins based on other teams' future performances it makes for akward justifications....You know, the one's we all make around tournament time.  I think last year's was the best when another NWC follower in to office told me about something he read that started with CalTech...who beat a SCIAC team...that beat WW...who beat UPS..who beat UC Riverside...who beat Pacific...and it eventually got linked to beating Duke.  I think you see my point.

In regards to the WW no. 8 ranking in and of itself....Yes, there is something to say for consistency in winning 9 games straight (even if 5 of them were against teams with losing records, including Bethany and CalTech).  WW may be the 8th best team in the land, only time, and possibly the tournament will tell. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 07, 2006, 02:44:13 am
PineCone, Pat-

I hate to do this as I am a NWC fan and want to see the conference succeed on the national scene.  However, this is a discussion board so let's discuss.

My concern is the "great leap" from 18 to 8. You both cite a realization of the comittee as seeing a new "value" in the win versus Wheaton as they beat Calvin and Hope.  It was a good win which cannot be denied, but Calvin is 3-3 and is no longer in the top 25 and Hope is 2-2 and ranked 21.  Yes, both teams have played relativiely tough schedules, but it was WHEATON that beat Calvin and Hope and not Whitworth.  When you retroactively put value of wins based on other teams' future performances it makes for akward justifications....You know, the one's we all make around tournament time.

You have to look at it within the context of the season, Gilbert. Jumping ten rungs up the ladder in early December is not the same thing as jumping ten rungs up the ladder in January or February. The season is still very young, so a greater fluidity in terms of movement up and down the rankings should be expected.

I think last year's was the best when another NWC follower in to office told me about something he read that started with CalTech...who beat a SCIAC team...that beat WW...who beat UPS..who beat UC Riverside...who beat Pacific...and it eventually got linked to beating Duke.

Your officemate slipped up. Caltech hasn't beaten a fellow SCIAC team since ... what? 1987? 1988? Something like that. It's close to twenty years, if not more than twenty years. I'm sure someone on the SCIAC board would know this.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 07, 2006, 03:39:17 am
First off, I'm with Pineconefan on the Whitworth ranking.  Plus, it does you no good complaining about it right now since their is no BCS system in college basketball.  Based on the players on this years team, a team who competed with a UPS team who made a good run in the playoffs (not only competed but outscored 289-274 in their three meetings), and the quality win over wheaton, at wheaton, plus two conference victories...I don't think the #8 spot is completely undeserving. 

CalTech is 0-242 in conference games, that means the last time they beat a SCIAC team was 21 years (going on 22) ago and have lost 195 in a row against NCAA opponents.  That streak is even more impressive than Linfield's football winning streak.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 07, 2006, 12:03:20 pm
I think Gil has a legit point in questioning how Whitworth could have possibly jumped 10 spots in one week ??? I'm also pretty confused on how that could have happened ???  However, I'm all for the NWC having success on the national level (yes, even if it is WW)...and I think G Sager had a clear cut explaination that makes good sense, his use of the word "fluidity" in discribing the young seasons rankings really topped it off for me, I just can't argue with that.

On another note...

Rat- after Mr. Sager's perfectly good explaination about the rankings you came in and succesfully screwed the pooch with yours.   I would love to know who is complaining about a BCS system in basketball?  Just curious where that cam from :-\? But lets go ahead and put your BCS remark on the pack burner for now.  The fact that you have tried to justify THIS YEARS Whitworth team being ranked 8th because of wins over LAST YEARS UPS squad will baffle the mind of anyone who knows anything about sports rankings ???. 

Although I should add, you cited a very meaningful statistic (sarcastic if you can't tell) in adding up LAST YEARS point totals from the matchups between UPS and WW... very crucial info ... I'm pretty sure the only stat that really means anything from LAST YEARS games between the two teams is 2-1, the amount of times UPS beat WW which I will remind you once again was LAST YEAR, meaning it doesn't matter in any way for THIS YEAR!!! Both WW and UPS have much different players than LAST YEARS teams.  THIS YEAR yes, Whitworth has a quality win over a very good Wheaton team, that is a fact that is OK for you to discuss.  Furthermore, If you have any questions about ground breaking statistics you would like to throw out there in the future why don't you go ahead and run your idea past a knowledgeable source first (and no the BCS board does not count they do football rankings this is basketball ;) ).   Keep on truckin!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 07, 2006, 02:00:48 pm
Bearcats, you make really good points about Willamette's injury situation.  When I listed Willamette as not doing as well as expected, that was just surface observation, without going into great detail.

I am sure Coach James will have things turned in the right direction when it counts.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 07, 2006, 02:03:03 pm
Logs - I am pretty sure if you reread Rats' post, you will see he indicated that the current ranking is not too important because there is NOT a BCS style system.  So it was a good idea to leave that comment alone.

But you were correct on the second point, last year's results against UPS, or anyone else, have no bearing at all on this year's rankings.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 07, 2006, 02:37:45 pm
pcone- It's nice to see an informed bucks fan over there in Spokane ;D

I also agree with you and bcats about the WU injury situation, they would be a much better team with Stuvland back in my opinion.  I'm not as sure about the other guys that are out though, it looks like more effective players have stepped up in their absence, especially the freshman Nugent (I think that's his name?).  That's just from watching them play one game though. 

Bcats-is stuvland out with an injury or because of eligibility reasons?  I heard from someone that he only had half a year of eligibility left, do you know one way or the other?  Do you know when he will be back?  WU will be more dangerous with him I just hope they don't lose too many games early on, at the rate they are going they may dig too big of a hole for themselves by the time stuvland is back. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 07, 2006, 03:03:57 pm
Whitworth has a bunch of players returning, from a team last year who was top 25 caliber...meaning they have the talent this year to be a top 25 team...It wasn't a good argument but i think it does show that Whitorth is good enough to be in the top 10 (on paper) and have backed it up with a quality win on the road...something UPS has yet to do.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 07, 2006, 03:38:28 pm
Rat- I'm pretty sure that last years "top 25 Caliber" (but they never actually made it there) WW team that you speak of had two guys named Pecht who happened to be the NWC player of the year and Tucker who was second team all Conference.  Correct me if I'm wrong but both of those players graduated....meaning they no longer play on the WW team.  If I am correct in my assumptions it would be very hard, if not impossible, for me to believe WW is the same team on paper.  I fully agree with you that WW has a very good team this year, and that they were very solid last year as well for that matter, but they in no way have the same impact players (besides bwillams) as they did last year.  I do however, apprecaite your quasi explanation of your last post, I now look at you as slightly less crazy...keep up the good work!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 07, 2006, 04:27:38 pm
First off, I'm with Pineconefan on the Whitworth ranking.  Plus, it does you no good complaining about it right now since their is no BCS system in college basketball.  Based on the players on this years team, a team who competed with a UPS team who made a good run in the playoffs (not only competed but outscored 289-274 in their three meetings), and the quality win over wheaton, at wheaton, plus two conference victories...I don't think the #8 spot is completely undeserving. 


509-
As far as my complaints I am sorry if my comments seem unbearable to some on the board.  I was under the impression that this was a discussion board.  I found the WW jump to #8 worthy of discussion.  I mean, come on, I know there is no BCS system in basketball. I found out that the DIII national tilte was not decided in the "March Madness Bowl" at least two months ago.  If this board is meant for merely reporting on everyone's favorite team (as is the trend in many of your last postings 509), let me help everyone out.  I found a site that can save everyone some time:  www.google.com

May I further justify my surprise:  I noticed earlier in the season the end of year 2005-2006 rankings with UPS #8 as well.  If my memory serves me correctly UPS earned this ranking after amassing its 3rd conference title, 25 wins, and a run to the elite 8 after beating both the SCIAC and CCIW champions.  But hey....WW did beat Wheaton and the rankings are very "fluid" this time of year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on December 07, 2006, 05:06:13 pm
When the seniors from WU graduated last year, my "inside sources" to the team left...I will try to find out the situation with Stuvland, but I do know he had a full year left going into this season...

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 07, 2006, 05:36:01 pm
Quote
If this board is meant for merely reporting on everyone's favorite team (as is the trend in many of your last postings 509), let me help everyone out.

You are right, from now on I will start posting about every team but Whitworth...Oh wait, the Whitworth basketball team is the only team I stay pretty well informed on...my bad.

And you are exactly right about UPS being good last year, and Whitworth played with them (even beating them by close to 20 points) in every game.  I don't think Pecht is was that much better than Jones has been this year, and with Tucker on the team, there was no room for a guy like Symes, and Williams and Young got less touches because of it.  I think this is a better team with out those two...so cmoparing them with last year's team is perfectly valid in my opinion.  In fact, all 5 starters average double figures in scoring this year ( at least they did as of last week)...its a hell of a lot more balanced team this year than the 1-2 punch of Pecht and Tucker.

Not only does UPSoundLogs not understand the BCS, because who honestly cares about football at UPS?  But appearently doesn't know what a Buc is...as in Buccaneer...not deer (Buck).  Maybe Gilbert McFinnegan will rip on you too for only posting about your favorite team?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 07, 2006, 06:06:32 pm
whoa, Rat your measuring a little high on the Crazy-O-Meter again!  And just when I thought we had taken some steps in the right direction too...it's ok we are gonna get through this.

1) Jones is not even close to as good as Pecht, Sorry that's just the way it is.

2) I actually feel that I spread the love around the league when I post.  I'm obviously a UPS fun but I discuss many of our fine teams in the NWC.  WW, WU, GF, ...heck I even asked a few questions about PLU.  And if Gil does infact decide to "rip" on me, I'll take it and give it right back to him.  You see I like to take the "No excuses, play like a champion(Wedding Crashers)" approach.  I don't whine about it when someone "rips" me, unlike some people.

3) I actually do know a little about the BCS, I admittedly am not a huge Loggers football fan (even though they did have a good season this year) but seeing how they aren't a part of the BCS I don't think that should effect me too much.  I'm a big husky fan however (even though they did not have a good season...and haven't for a while) and they actually do use the BCS so I should be just fine, I apprecaite your concern for my football knowledge on a hoops site though, I like where your heads at.

4) Did you really correct my spelling of Buck's?  Geez, forget spell check I'm just gonna run all of my writing past you from now on.  I think I'm gonna spell it Bucks for the rest of the year now because you corrected my spelling of Bucks.  Bucks...Bucks...Bucks!!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 07, 2006, 08:13:46 pm
Quote
If this board is meant for merely reporting on everyone's favorite team (as is the trend in many of your last postings 509), let me help everyone out.

You are right, from now on I will start posting about every team but Whitworth...Oh wait, the Whitworth basketball team is the only team I stay pretty well informed on...my bad.

....Young got less touches because of it.

Not only does UPSoundLogs not understand the BCS, because who honestly cares about football at UPS?  But appearently doesn't know what a Buc is...as in Buccaneer...not deer (Buck).  Maybe Gilbert McFinnegan will rip on you too for only posting about your favorite team?

I think I am just misunderstood.  I have no problem with favorite teams.  I am not going to lie, I even have a favorite WNBA team: The Los Angeles Sparks.  I was referring to reporting on your team (giving us a score of the game), as oppose to discussing things about the game or the league or what not.  I just saw that you have given us WW scores throughout the board.  Actually, I prefer that you go ahead and stick to WW basketball, or UPS football as they seem to be areas of expertise.   

Sorry if I ripped anyone....did not mean to hurt feelings.

As far a Young not getting as many touches...Ever since I saw him play for WW, it has been clear that he has been a #1 scoring option for them.  Do you see how many double screens and pick and rolls with him as the three point option they run for him?  His lack of touches are due to his single dimension, 3 point shooting.  Granted, he is one of the deadliest shooters on the West Coast, but teams can focus on that and take it away much easier if he does not put the ball on the floor.  All the attention he gets opens the floor up for guys like Pecht  and now Symes and Williams.

Does anyone know how much it costs for a Pirate to get his ears pierced?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 07, 2006, 09:49:22 pm
So let me get this straight UPSoundLogs...I get criticized for comparing this year's Whitworth team to last year's team, but its totally ok for you to compare Jones from this year to Pecht from last year???  I guess it takes a nut to know one.  Oh yeah, Jones has also been Whitworth's leading scorer in 5 out of their nine games.  I like how you respond to only a very select few of the comments I make, at Gilby goes through pretty much point by point to argue with me...anyways, on to something more important that UPSoundLogs rambling.

Quote
Granted, he is one of the deadliest shooters on the West Coast, but teams can focus on that and take it away much easier if he does not put the ball on the floor.  All the attention he gets opens the floor up for guys like Pecht  and now Symes and Williams.

I have yet to see anyone double team him or even run some type of box and 1 on him, so I don't think this argument is as valid as it was last season.  And even last season Pecht was athletic enough that he created a lot of his own looks off the dribble, rather than Young being the one setting him up.  Young doesn't get nearly the attention he did during many games last year yet his teamates are putting up better numbers than they did last year.  This all goes back to me saying that Whitworth is better than they were last year, and last year they were a good team.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 08, 2006, 01:30:07 am
Arguing about ranking, or whether a team is better or worse than last year, is kind of pointless at this point.  Both are completely subjective.  Do I think Whitworth will end up being much better than last year?  Sure, but that really doesn't matter until they go out and either prove me right or wrong.

However, there are more concrete topics to discuss.  Both Whitworth and UPS have a chance to build solid QOWI scores heading into their first meeting of the season in Spokane next month.  The Pirates have in-region wins over Bethany Lutheran, Cal Lutheran, Whittier, Caltech, Pacific and L&C.  They have two games coming up against UCSC.  UPS has in-region wins over UCSC, Willamette and Fox, with games coming up against Whittier, La Verne and Chapman.  Both teams should be undefeated in-region heading into that first match up, with solid QOWI's.  That will be about the same time as the first regional rankings and both should be listed pretty highly. 

Based on the above, I think either team could have a good shot at an at-large berth this season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 08, 2006, 02:35:53 am
You are right Pinecone .  It's kind of funny that we find ourselves arguing over who is the better team and who is ranked too high or too low this early.  The season will tell the tale, but I also think based on regional record and how good each team can be that UPS and WW finally get into the post season together, although I am not counting Willamette or LC out yet considering if they get hot at the right time each team is good enough to win two quick ones in the playoffs.  Unlikely, but not impossible...       
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 08, 2006, 02:42:53 am
The Pirates have in-region wins over Bethany Lutheran, Cal Lutheran, Whittier, Caltech, Pacific and L&C.

Wheaton is an in-region win as well for the Pirates. Legislation passed this summer at the NCAA Convention further divided D3 into four administrative regions. Region 4 consists of Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, and all points west. Any games or matches played within the administrative regions counts as an in-region game, so Illinois-based Wheaton and Washington-based Whitworth are now regional foes.

The old eight-region system of D3 men's basketball (Northeast, East, Middle Atlantic, Atlantic, South, Great Lakes, Midwest, and West) is still intact for evaluation purposes, so a game between a CCIW team from Illinois (Region 4) and an HCAC team from Indiana (Region 3) remains an in-region game because both of those leagues are part of the Midwest Region. And the 200-mile rule for regional games remains in effect as well. Of course, neither of those issues matters one bit to you NWC folks way out there in D3's frontier outpost, but I just thought I'd mention them in the interest of being thorough.  ;)

What this all does mean is that NWC coaches now have the additional option of going to places like Chicago, Wheaton, Washington (MO), North Central, and Elmhurst for tournaments and picking up some good games that'll count as regional competition.

You can always find out what games are regional and what games aren't by checking a team's schedule page here on D3hoops.com. Regional games are marked with asterisks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 08, 2006, 10:46:21 am
Well, all I see is more whining from the Rat...oh well, not much new there I guess.  I think I'm done trying to help him, his rambling doesn't really deserve a reply.  I'm a little dissapointed in him I really thought we could have had something special :-[

Unfortunately there are no more conference games for a while, but in the mean time the logs are headed to Cali to hopefully pick up some in region wins as well as continue to dominate the SCIAC!  If the Loggers can take care of business down there and both WW and UPS continue to play well I think one of them getting an at large bid into the tourney won't be too far fetched.  Obviously there is still a long ways too go and we can't assume anything, but it never hurts to ponder ;)


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 08, 2006, 02:34:23 pm
SoundLogs,  I just want to give a formal good luck to UPS on their CA trip.  I don't think that anyone wants to relive last years playoff blunder when the SCIAC got two teams in.  WW had their chance at OXY losing a tough one, which probably would have gotten them in had they won  but I just see the NWC being much more competitive in the playoffs.  Also I was able to attend the first half of the Whitworth / Whittier game.  Whitworth played poorly and was ahead at half so hopefully no worries for you in that match up.  Whittier does however have a few good shooters who can't be left open.     
     
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 08, 2006, 03:14:55 pm
Thanks bucs, your very right about not wanting to re-live last years tournament scenario.  Two SCIAC teams in the tourney is two too many in my opinion (although I realize atleast one must get in).  I don't want to be too confident because anything can happen, but the logs have had a very good track record against SCIAC teams in the past so I'm feeling pretty good about them winning three down south. 

What does WW have coming up? Aren't they going back to Cali again? I think I saw they were playing UCSC or something, in which case you guys will kill them.

Does anyone know if any NWC teams are playing big games out of league before we start back into conference play? 

Bcats-any word on Stuvland's situation?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on December 09, 2006, 01:34:23 am
Okay NW conference fans we have had our opening weekend of conference games and all I see are a bunch of posts about rankings and strong wins and for some odd reason the playoffs.  Gosh one poll and its a March sandbox.  Is it February already?   I think that is when we might mention the p word with significance (p word = playoff, for you pinecone..jk). 

All NW conference wins against anybody outside of conference is good for the conference, of course, some are better but than others but who cares about Nov. polls when you lose on the road to a conference team that is 2-6 in late January.  Conference records and Conference tourney are 95 percent of your grade as far back as I can track for the NWC when it comes to end of year invites.

Congrats to WW, UPS, LC, and yes even PLU and the other teams that have started strong or looked good.  I will look forward to reading posts about players, coaches and teams performances in the preseason games.  I enjoy reading about how a player dominated a game or just plain stunk up the gym.  If a team had a monster comeback like LC did in Hawaii or pressed a point guard to 10+ TO's.  Anyway..fire away.  And of course, Go Pirates (Bucs) if you are listening to WW come out of a timeout. 



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 11, 2006, 03:20:13 pm
Arguing about ranking, or whether a team is better or worse than last year, is kind of pointless at this point.  Both are completely subjective.  Do I think Whitworth will end up being much better than last year?  Sure, but that really doesn't matter until they go out and either prove me right or wrong.

However, there are more concrete topics to discuss. 
You are right Pinecone .  It's kind of funny that we find ourselves arguing over who is the better team and who is ranked too high or too low this early.     

Well it looks like our discussion about the WW ranking is definitely beneath this board.  Good try UPSoundLogs and Rat at trying to get some lively discussion going.  It was fun while it lasted.

Good luck to all the NWC over the Christmas break.  Can I say go PLU?  Possible contender for the 3rd spot?   Any thoughts?
 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on December 11, 2006, 05:01:14 pm
Finally got a chance to see the Bearcats on Friday night...and while they gave up a ton of points, they were impressive offensively, beating concordia 96-93...(they followed that with a 66-51 victory over SOU the next day that I wasn't at)...

The new faces for WU, Danny Nugent and Michael Smith, were very good, with Nugent going for 28 and 8...Andrus played well of the bench, and Plank was solid at the "1"...Mansfield and McClary also battled all night in the paint...

While their problem areas are pretty obvious (taking care of the ball and getting some kind of defensive effort), they're fun to watch, and with some adjustments (and additions) I have not yet lost faith in their ability to make the NWC tournament...

Oh, and it was a GREAT crowd Friday...loud and standing the whole game...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 11, 2006, 05:07:29 pm
Bearcats,
     Do you think that the addition of Stuvland and Fife will at all hurt the flow of the team.  I.e. Nugent.   I would guess that it might take some practices and a game or two before Nugent and the others get used to shooting a lot less.  I would guess about 20 shots per game between Stuv and fife?  Glad to hear that the crowd was roaring.  AS far as I've heard WW had a roaring crowd of about 10-15 parents and family of the referees in their win over UCSC.

 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 11, 2006, 06:27:08 pm
Gil- I'm glad that someone can appreciate a little friendly argueing on this board, I actually thought it was mildly entertaining...hopefully the rat would agree.  We haven't heard from him in a couple days though, should we be worried?

Anywho, to answer your question about PLU(hey that rythmes)....I think it is ok to tell them good luck, I don't think there's much room for two championship contenders in Tacoma this year but I'm not above throwing a friendly "go get em boys!" in the Lutes direction.  I really don't see them being a contender for the 3rd playoff spot, they've been in the basement of the league for the last few years, but you never know.

Actually I would like a little info on their team.  Unfortuantely no PLU fans have made their way on the board yet, but if they keep winning I have a feeling it won't be long until we hear from someone.  Does anyone know why they are all of a sudden winning? New coaching maybe? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on December 11, 2006, 10:41:21 pm
Don't worry I didn't go anywhere...and believe me, I have just as much fun as you guys on this board.  Glad to hear nobody is taking anything too seriously...unlike a certain diehard Cat fan from the Harbor.  Anyways, Whitworth took a trip down to Santa Cruz and had a basketball game (if thats what you wanna call it) with the banana slugs in the carckerbox they call a gym.  They only took 9 players but all of them played generously, and contirbuted in the W (76-52).  Young tied his single game three point record with 7, but thats about all I know because the stats haven't been posted yet.  From what I hear the Pirates played a poor first half, but were still up 19.  I guess UCSC is that bad.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 14, 2006, 05:47:41 pm
Noticing a bit of a lag on the board, but I guess that's to be expected during a break like we have coming up.  Heard that the WW/UCSC game was extremely boring.  Also heard from a few people that the gym was really odd with the back wall being made of solid concrete.  Wierd.   Good luck to all NWC teams over the break.  Looks like UPS will have somewhat of a tough trip playing away from home against pretty good competition,  I think Chapman will be your biggest challenge though.  WW is off until a reunion game with UCSC on Jan. 2,  Unless you count the alumni game which is always fun to watch...yawn.  What are some overall thoughts/predictions on the league as we enter league play?  My prediction is still  UPS/Willamette/WW in the top three, probably not in that order, but I see Pacific making a faint challenge for the 3 spot.  I would have said PLU because of their earl wins, but correct me if I'm wrong, until they lost to Port. St.  they had not played any competition.  Thats about it,  good luck once again and Merry Christmas!!!   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 15, 2006, 05:29:39 pm
Yes, its true the board has gotten pretty boring during this break in games.  I really don't have much to say, I just wanted to stop by and give Bucs some company(hey buddy).

By the way, does anyone now what the Karma-meter is all about?  Am I a bad person because I have negative Karma?  I notice Bucs is at -4 and he's one of the most charming guys on the board...What's the deal?  All I know is that my self esteem is gonna take a nose dive if my karma gets much lower :-\...I guess I'll have to make some serious New Years resolutions!!!

Good luck to everyone over the Xmas break, especially UPS on its Cali trip...we gotta take care of those SCIAC teams in the early going if we even want to think about getting into the tourney(Example: Whitworth last year). 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on December 18, 2006, 07:00:04 pm
UPSoundlogs,

Tis the season, so I gave you some + karma. Once you hit 200 posts you gain the power of giving + or - Karma. I wouldn't let it get to me. Touchdowntommy has -650 karma.

It looks to be another fun year in the NWC. From what I can see, any one can win on any given night. Makes for fun Basketball. I guess will see real soon.

everyone have a Merry Christmas and a Happy new Year!

Or as Joel Presbella(sp) from the Portland Trail Blazers said last year before a home game " I hope every one has a Happy Christmas" ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 19, 2006, 10:48:17 am
Tuxguy,

I appreciate you throwing a little Karma my way, I feel much better about myself going into the holiday season...did I mention Linfield is great at bask...I mean Football  ;).  Can I have some more karma for the compliment?  Geez, I can't wait to have that kind of power.

Merry Xmas!!! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 19, 2006, 01:14:48 pm
Haha
I'm with you Sound,  I'm gonna start posting like a mad man.  And anybody who is looking for a last minute gift idea for me.  I'd like some Karma with a side of Karma.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 21, 2006, 04:07:08 am
Wow -- just checked back into this board for the first time in a couple weeks (been busy with the Stagg Bowl) and was surprised to see what is basically whining about a jump in the poll by Whitworth that makes the entire conference look good.

UPS fans -- lose the sour grapes. Beat Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 21, 2006, 10:37:27 am
hmmmmmmmmmm....I'm pretty sure if you looked closely you would see that most everyone has expressed their happiness for two ranked NWC teams.  I know this guy is!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 21, 2006, 12:36:44 pm
Wow -- just checked back into this board for the first time in a couple weeks (been busy with the Stagg Bowl) and was surprised to see what is basically whining about a jump in the poll by Whitworth that makes the entire conference look good.


REALLY, PAT??? ???.....

I am not complaining too much though, I am all for respect for the NWC on the national level even if the logic behind it may seem a little off.
I hate to do this as I am a NWC fan and want to see the conference succeed on the national scene.   However, this is a discussion board so let's discuss.
I think Gil has a legit point in questioning how Whitworth could have possibly jumped 10 spots in one week ??? I'm also pretty confused on how that could have happened ???  However, I'm all for the NWC having success on the national level (yes, even if it is WW)...and I think G Sager had a clear cut explaination that makes good sense, his use of the word "fluidity" in discribing the young seasons rankings really topped it off for me, I just can't argue with that.

Pat, Pat, Pat,  Someone may be jumping the gun and getting a little sensitive….maybe a little authorship pride regarding their top 25 poll?? I cannot lie, I expected a little more from the “D3sports.com Guru Administrator All American,” with 5 Stars I might add.

I just want to say on behalf of the whining side of the discussion board, we love the poll as it gives us something else to discuss.  We did not mean for the discussion about it to get to you.

In fact, I like it so much that if I was able to, I would give you 1000+ Pixie Dust or Karma or whatever it is people can give each other if having sufficient posts.  So since I cannot I will give you this:

To: Pat Coleman

+10,000 Lucky Charms

From: Gil the “Whiner”

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

(Hope this makes you feel better!!)
But please take my comments with a grain of salt…I am only Junior Varsity.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 21, 2006, 12:57:10 pm
Pat,

Seeing how I have -karma and it is the holiday season I was wondering if you could share some of the +10,000 Lucky Charms that Gil just gifted to you.  I know its a lot to ask and Lucky Charms are very hard to come by, but I figured it couldn't hurt to try.  After all you do have +10,000 Lucky Charms!!!  PLEEEEEAAAAASE?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 22, 2006, 11:50:02 am
After being down by twenty at halftime the loggers somehow fought their way back to win by 6 in OT against Chapman.  I wasn't at the game so I wouldn't know, but that couldn't have been pretty to watch.  On a positive note, they did complete a 3-0 Cali trip that puts them in great shape to return to conference play. 

I've noticed around the league that WU got back on track with a couple nice wins, Whitworth has stayed right where they were(having played only 1 game and winning), Whitman got a great win against Biola a very good NIAI 1 team for there first win of the season ???, GFU dropped a couple, and PLU dropped back down to earth with a couple losses after there 4-0 start (it was only a matter of time :D). 

I don't know about the rest of you on this board but I'm ready to watch some more NWC games, its been a long break.

Merry Xmas

P.S. All I want for xmas is a better karma rating and some +Lucky Charms from P Coleman!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 22, 2006, 01:45:19 pm
I'm just pointing out that in most conferences this wouldn't be a sour grapes situation -- the ones who are a little more experienced in Division III realize that having a team in the poll is a good thing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 22, 2006, 04:26:04 pm
Impressive win for the Loggers last night, coming back from 20 points down on the road.  I am guessing that Chapman gained an early advantage by scouting the ULV and Whittier games and working up a good game plan.  But they couldn't handle the pressure for all 40 minutes, it just wears most teams down.

It's going to be a heck of a race this year.

Still trying to figure out Pacific.  Part of being a young team, but they handled CLU easily on the road, then lost at La Sierra.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 22, 2006, 04:45:02 pm
I'm just pointing out that in most conferences this wouldn't be a sour grapes situation -- the ones who are a little more experienced in Division III realize that having a team in the poll is a good thing.

Pat-

Wait a minute….you are telling me the Top 25 poll estimates how good at basketball one D3 team is relative to all others because of the impossibility of every team playing one another in aims of truly defining a teams standing based on record alone? And in following your logic, with 1 being the best ranking in the Top 25, for Whitworth to be in the 8 position would suggest that they are good; since WW is in the NWC that would suggest that the NWC is good, and despite D3 tournament selections to be supposedly “objective,” based on conference title, in region D3 competition, and other D3 competition, for the NWC conference to be suggested as “good” by the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll would weigh in heavily on the selection committees conscience in selecting at large bids, possibly giving the NWC a better shot at one of those bids (Even though in the end, dollars tend to dictate those type of decisions)……..

Oh okay, thanks Pat.  I was sitting in my cave here in the Northwest, new to the whole horseless carriage, talking box, fire stick, and Division 3 hoops thing, lost in a fast paced world trying to find my way west in hopes of more fertile land.  Somehow I became misguided along the way and was under the impression the Top 25 was a beauty contest and was angry that my boys down in Pacific were not getting there just dues because they had been doing their calf raises all Summer…

HOWEVER, because of you Pat, and your clarity, I am now ahead of my time, as are all of us NWC “newbies.”  It should have taken us at least 20 more years to reach this epiphany, realizing that NWC teams in the Top 25 are good for the entire conference.  So on behalf of all NWC posters:  Thank You Pat!!!!

And for your efforts: +500 Lucky Charms

(Read Reply #531; If you are going to read this board, please do it with at least some level of detail. There are no sour grapes about WW's ranking and are clearly overall happy with it…We just felt like DISCUSSING the mystical 10 spot jump)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 22, 2006, 07:08:26 pm
I think Gil has a legit point in questioning how Whitworth could have possibly jumped 10 spots in one week ??? I'm also pretty confused on how that could have happened ??? 

Despite other parts of this post that try to back away from that, this is what I was referring to as sour grapes. It smacks of a UPS fan jealous that Whitworth got a big bump in the poll.

If I could get through the first graf of your post, Gilbert, I might respond, but I suppose it's not worthy trying to decipher.

And yes, I read 531. Hope you understand that I am citing my sources here.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 23, 2006, 02:35:27 pm
HaHaHaHaHa :D

I think P Coleman needs to be introducted to Quoting 101.  Your last post is hilarious buddy, I love your interpretations.

I might as well have said...

George W. Bush is and idiot, he hasn't done a single good thing since he has been in office!  His father however, is a great man!

Pat would interpret this quote as...

George W. Bush... is a great man!

Pat would think...

Geez, UPSoundlogs must really love George W. Bush! :D

My point is...It's pretty easy to prove your right when you only take a piece of the puzzle, good try though P, I like your style.  Maybe you should run for president some day! :D

Whatever Pat wants to see through his "Pat Goggles" thats fine with me. I'm all for Whitworth being in the top ten, I love that the NWC is getting more respect nationally with two teams in the top 25 and I can't wait for WW and UPS to meet in Conference, it's gonna be a great game!  However, I'm never gonna stop supporting UPS and debating back and forth with other NWC fans on the board.  It's all in good fun...as long as you don't take it too seriously.

Merry Xmas!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 23, 2006, 02:38:19 pm
Hmm, no, I took words that you said consecutively. I didn't chop you up to make you say something you didn't. Now, if you didn't mean what you said, perhaps it would have been wise to not have said it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 23, 2006, 03:07:40 pm

"Now, if you didn't mean what you said, perhaps it would have been wise to not have said it." -Pcoleman

YIKES!!! Don't take yourself so seriously buddy! ;D SMILE!!! 

Are you gonna tell me not to chew with my mouth full next?

It's OK to not have anything of value to say.  Just go ahead...take a deep breath... and avoid the erge to post it.  You don't need to leave a life leason for me on this message board.   This is a basketball site, the last thing I need is the P-Man(my personal posting hero ;)) acting like a scolding school marm.  I could go to Catholic bording school if I wanted that!

Now get back out there and post like the champion I know you are!

Pat, be all that you can be!!! I believe in you ;D

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 23, 2006, 04:23:20 pm
If I could get through the first graf of your post, Gilbert, I might respond, but I suppose it's not worthy trying to decipher.


WOOH WOOH WOOH...the fun police have struck again!!

Pat has blessed our board!!!

I am not going to lie, my vocabulary did not extend to the eloquence of the word graf, so I was forced to look it up on dictionary.com:

Graf   (grāf, gräf)  Pronunciation Key     
German tennis player who in 1988 won the Grand Slam (Wimbledon, French, U.S., and Australian titles) and an Olympic gold medal.

Either way, I will take it in context and assume you meant graf to be something confusing or unclear.  Well Pat, that entire first portion of my post was a sarcastic way of conveying that it is silly of you to think that we over in the NWC do not have an adequate understanding of the D3 system, and where your Top 25 poll fits into the "big picture," simply because we are relatively new to D3.  We understand quite well how things work and over the past 6 years, enjoyed seeing LC, WW, and especially UPS take strides in putting our conference consistently on the national stage.  Now that we are on the poll (insert Taladega Nights joke here), we just felt compelled to take a critical perspective, instead of throwing a party because Pat Coleman's D3hoops poll mentioned our conference (that was hinted with sarcasm just to be clear).

Nice analogy, UPSoundLogs, but I think you should run for President against Pat.

Not impressed with this round Pat.....+0 Lucky Charms

I really think you should hang it up on this issue....you are just not going to win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 23, 2006, 04:32:21 pm
Sorry -- when I took Quoting 101 graf became journalistic shorthand for "paragraph." I'm at my day job and definitely in the journalist mind-set at the moment.

Pardon me, however, for trying to understand the Northwest Conference. I guess I could leave you alone and ignore your teams as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 23, 2006, 04:55:04 pm
'Logs:

Had you attended a "Catholic bording [sic!] school," you would doubtless be a better speller than shown in your post above.  ;) 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 23, 2006, 05:02:49 pm
I guess I could leave you alone and ignore your teams as well.

Good idea, Pat, and perhaps worth doing ....  8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 23, 2006, 05:16:56 pm
"Pardon me, however, for trying to understand the Northwest Conference. I guess I could leave you alone and ignore your teams as well." -P Coleman

I appreciate you trying to understand the NWC, we are pretty confusing over here.  If you have any further questions I would be glad to help you out if I can.  However, I think I might take you a little more seriously, in your quest to understand the NWC, if you didn't start out by telling us we are sour grapes(or is it just me?)

We enjoy your company over here and it would be a shame to allow your frustrations with two Jr. Varsity posters to interfer with your participating on our board...or even more... turning your back on our entire conference; as you mentioned(bold statement ???).    I think Gil would agree with me that we believed you to be a little more thick skinned and able to participate in a good old fashioned busting of the chops.  However, don't allow our antics to bring you down and certainly don't become too offended to come back and join us at any time of your choosing.  

Have a very Merry Xmas P-man!  I'll even throw +500 Lucky Charms in your stocking ;D.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 23, 2006, 05:36:54 pm
Oh Hello Warren, you sure came in here with your guns ablazin!!!

  You must be the annoying side kick that tries to be funny but never is.  Thanks for the spelling comment, I've never heard that one before...I wish I could find original ways like that to make fun of people.  It always hurts to make fun of spelling errors, I'm just not sure how I can possibly get you back now. 

If we really were in a catholic boarding school I would probably give you a wedgie after lunch or something like that, but since you are a "Hale of fahmer" (I forgot how to spell that?) I'll just take it easy on you for your first visit to our board. 

Welcome, I hope you didn't bring any sour grapes with you they are frowned upon here in the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 23, 2006, 06:17:14 pm
Sorry -- when I took Quoting 101 graf became journalistic shorthand for "paragraph." I'm at my day job and definitely in the journalist mind-set at the moment.

Pardon me, however, for trying to understand the Northwest Conference. I guess I could leave you alone and ignore your teams as well.

My concept of whats going on is not so misconstrued that I cannot take a step back and admit when I jumped the gun a little.  I was unaware of journalist shorthand as I have no journalism experience.  Point taken.  My bad on the "graf" comment.

Pat do you realize who you are? Let me repeat it for you:

You are Pat Coleman, the D3sports.com Guru Administrator All-American, Publisher of d3hoops.com, d3football.com (and that's it no other sports).  You have over 15,000+ posts, +250 Karma....and shoot your stars are even better looking than everyone elses.

Putting all sarcasm aside for one moment in my life, I am under the assumption that you are an important position in the d3hoops.com world, being a publisher and all, and with that comes the need for a certain level of professionalism.  For you to make as irrational a comment as "I guess I could ignore your teams as well," reminds me of the little kid who won't let everyone play with his basketball unless he gets to be captain. Come on Pat, you are better than that.  It is really dissapointing that someone responsible for national D3 hoops coverage would even threaten to let a PUBLIC DISCUSSION effect the way in which he does his job.  I hope that this is not a reflection of how the rest of D3hoops.com conducts business.  Either way I am not worried, as NWC play should speak for itself regardless of Pat Coleman coverage or not.

I am sorry that we did not just bow to your almighty comments when you came on our board and actually had responses to you when you came out calling us whiners and accusing us of having "sour grapes." So yes, actually commenting back is how we do things in the Northwest Conference.

As for Warren, well I am just dissapointed that UPSoundLogs even paid you any attention at all.  You come onto our board talking about spelling, and piggybacking Pat and that is it?  I just hope you guys are really good friends or you want a job at D3hoops.com or something, because otherwise, you presence here just does not make sense....But hey, who could resist a good wedgie comment.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 23, 2006, 06:20:54 pm
Oh yeah....-15 Lucky Charms for both of you.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 23, 2006, 07:03:01 pm
Well, shoot, I could judge anyone to be anything if I only read .03% of their 15,000 posts.

Don't make judgments about me. You have no idea. Thanks. You're wasting a lot of virtual breath talking about me for no real reason.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on December 23, 2006, 09:57:02 pm
"So you better watch out, you better not cry, you better not pout!  I'm tellin' you why.  Santa Claus is coming to town!"

Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas all.

Peace on Earth and Good Will toward everyone!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: fosheezie on December 26, 2006, 12:10:35 am
Is Pat threatening to go home with his ball and not let anyone play....dont worry NWC fans, I have posting in the SCIAC board for years and have realized that Pat is a big cry baby when anyone questions his posts.  Like you said earlier Pat, "take things on the posting board with a grain of salt!"  Be an athletic supporter not a cry baby!

Merry Christmas Pat!

Go Pacific Bulldogs! ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 26, 2006, 01:24:31 am

Pat-

Wait a minute….you are telling me the Top 25 poll estimates how good at basketball one D3 team is relative to all others because of the impossibility of every team playing one another in aims of truly defining a teams standing based on record alone? And in following your logic, with 1 being the best ranking in the Top 25, for Whitworth to be in the 8 position would suggest that they are good; since WW is in the NWC that would suggest that the NWC is good, and despite D3 tournament selections to be supposedly “objective,” based on conference title, in region D3 competition, and other D3 competition, for the NWC conference to be suggested as “good” by the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll would weigh in heavily on the selection committees conscience in selecting at large bids, possibly giving the NWC a better shot at one of those bids (Even though in the end, dollars tend to dictate those type of decisions)……..

(Read Reply #531; If you are going to read this board, please do it with at least some level of detail. There are no sour grapes about WW's ranking and are clearly overall happy with it…We just felt like DISCUSSING the mystical 10 spot jump)

Not that I care, since I'm only a WIACer who lurks around the NWC only when a fellow WIAC team plays a NWC team, usually in the NCAA tourney.

The criteria for selecting at-large bids is objective, such as in-region record, the old SOSI (strength of schedule index:  they use something similar to that now), records against ranked opponents (the NCAA ranking, not the d3hoops ranking) and other secondary critieria...while the actual selection is subjective.  I'm not going to insult your intelligence here, or any other NWCer here, but there is a "round table" selection process that determines who's selected and who isn't.  From what I gather, though dollars dictate WHERE a selected team plays, I don't believe dollars dictate WHO is selected.  They don't pick one team over another team because it's cheaper for the NCAA...however, they choose to fly one team to another team's place for cost purposes.  The NCAA does not look at the d3hoops poll to get an idea of who is good and who isn't.  They have their own poll for that.  The regular season conference title doesn't mean anything.  If you win the conference tourney, you get the AQ, unless a league doesn't have one (like the AAU, I believe).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Observation Deck on December 26, 2006, 01:46:15 am
You've been posting for years? With one post a month?

Not sure I would take you very seriously at 73 posts.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 26, 2006, 11:42:09 am
Is Pat threatening to go home with his ball and not let anyone play

I never said anything about shutting down the board. That would be the equivalent of taking the ball and going home. I am most definitely leaving them the ball.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 26, 2006, 01:15:38 pm
You've been posting for years? With one post a month?

Not sure I would take you very seriously at 73 posts.

In no one's defense at all, there are a good number of posters who are very knowledgeable that don't post very often..and on the other hand, there are a lot of posters who post a lot that don't know anything!  ??? ::) ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 26, 2006, 02:59:26 pm
Geez I leave for a couple days and our board comes to life!  I like!

Old School-
I think you have more d3hoops knowledge than is healthy for any one human being to possess.  I'm slightly intimidated to ask you any questions, but if I ever think of a good one you are the first person I'm asking!  I appreciate the insight you bring to the table...its good stuff. 

Fosheezie-
So Pat has created trouble on your board as well huh?  Hmmmm...I'm beginning to get the feeling he is not the most liked poster around.  Being that I'm new to the d3board I don't want to create any judgement calls too early in the game.   With that said, 15,000 posts is a lot of whining!!!  Even if it is only..."Virtual breath(The Pman) ???"  Sorry i judged...oops!


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 26, 2006, 04:31:39 pm
Old School-
Appreciate the comments, and the respectful approach.  It looks like you could have ripped me a little harder with the level detail regarding the selection process that you possess, but yet showed restraint.  Good lesson…you must have watched Jet Li’s Fearless on Christmas as well.

I understand the gist of the selection process, and the comment you were referencing was a sarcastic rant in the middle of a much larger discourse between Pat, UPSoundLogs, myself and some other late comer…I forget.  However, I will not claim to know the process as fully as you do.  What I was trying to convey was that no matter how clearly guidelines are put forth in anything such as selection faced by the D3 comittee, there are other “factors,” unaccounted for, that probably sneak their way in and create some influence and possibly decide some close calls.  I was suggesting that such things might consist of polls such as D3hoops, money, connections…you know humanistic type things that cannot be separated from the process even if mandated.

Just so you don’t think I am totally unfounded with this whole money deal, look at last years at large SCIAC selection: Occidental. I know there was a lot to it, and I am unsure of all the wins and losses involved, but I know the committee had the choice between a 20-6 NWC team, WW, with the 6th loss coming in the conference tournament, or a 19-5 SCIAC team.  On its face, it may seem that the prospect of flying WW to southern CA may have been taken into account or at least broke the tie, if there was one. I am not sure. Either way, it is just a general speculation and am just trying to explain an earlier comment.  I AM NOT TRYING TO OPEN THAT CAN OF WORMS. (meaning whether or not Oxy should have got an at large as opposed to WW last year…so don’t try and reel me in)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 26, 2006, 04:41:00 pm
So Pat has created trouble on your board as well huh?  Hmmmm...I'm beginning to get the feeling he is not the most liked poster around.  Being that I'm new to the d3board I don't want to create any judgement calls too early in the game.   With that said, 15,000 posts is a lot of whining!!!  Even if it is only..."Virtual breath(The Pman) ???"  Sorry i judged...oops!

Webmeister Pat doesn't "create" trouble, but he commonly has to deal with trouble-makers in various rooms.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 26, 2006, 05:20:55 pm
Warren-

You don't really deserve a comment from anybody, but I just wanted to point out that you have made it painfully clear my first predictions about you were correct!  You are nothing more than the P-man's unfunny sidekick, I'm embarrassed for you.  At least Pat forms his own opinions and thoughts,  I may disagree with him but can still respect his views and knowledge.  You have made two posts on this board that have offered absolutely no value or opinion other than to unsuccesfully try to stick up for your master P-Coleman.  I can assure you Pat is more than capable of taking care of himself, you are free to go back and lie down in your kennel like a good dog. 

Gil-
You watched Fearless too?  Jet Li is my favorite! It kind of reminds me of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon with all the dancing and the magic!!! :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 26, 2006, 05:34:45 pm
Woof, woof, Pat. Want me to roll over? If I do, will you give me a dog biscuit?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 26, 2006, 05:47:43 pm
Old School-
I think you have more d3hoops knowledge than is healthy for any one human being to possess.  I'm slightly intimidated to ask you any questions, but if I ever think of a good one you are the first person I'm asking!  I appreciate the insight you bring to the table...its good stuff. 

I appreciate the kind words.  However, there are many posters who know a lot more than I do! ;D...so, don't feel intimidated! lol.

Old School-
Appreciate the comments, and the respectful approach.  It looks like you could have ripped me a little harder with the level detail regarding the selection process that you possess, but yet showed restraint.  Good lesson…you must have watched Jet Li’s Fearless on Christmas as well.

I stopped "being in fights" awhile ago!  Or at least I try to avoid them.  Jet Li's Fearless isn't too bad.

As for Oxy getting in instead of Whitworth...I know you don't want to open up that can of worms again, but it might have to do with the fact that Oxy beat Whitworth during the season...that seems to go a long way.  ;) (they also had a higher Quality of Wins Index (SOSI)...

Anyway...back to your NWC banter.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 26, 2006, 06:13:07 pm
Indeed, the key numbers on Oxy/Whitworth from last season:

Occidental    9.750 QOWI/SOSI, .750 regional winning pct., head-to-head win
Whitworth    9.542 QOWI/SOSI, .750 regional winning pct., head-to-head loss
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 26, 2006, 06:16:42 pm

As for Oxy getting in instead of Whitworth...I know you don't want to open up that can of worms again, but it might have to do with the fact that Oxy beat Whitworth during the season...that seems to go a long way.  ;) (they also had a higher Quality of Wins Index (SOSI)...

Anyway...back to your NWC banter.

Exactly why I did not want to open that can of worms...I knew I did not know exactly what I was getting into.  Point taken.  Thank you for the clarification.  Looks like my money argument is officially dead for now.

Now that situation is coming back to me...I think there was discussion that Claremont winning that conference that made the WW case for an at large bid really weak, and  that if Oxy won that conference WW might have had a legit shot....Good stuff.


Woof, woof, Pat. Want me to roll over? If I do, will you give me a dog biscuit?

Warren-
I hope you are being sarcastic.  I think the worst part about it is that we are not sure.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 26, 2006, 06:56:57 pm
Warren has been on the boards for about eight years now and got his Hall of Fame status by being the voice of reason on many boards when they have needed one. I appreciate the help and hope the newbie posters would have a little more respect.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 26, 2006, 07:09:19 pm
Pat, thanks for your kind words. Yet maybe we should cut the northwest posters just a little slack. After all, it's always raining up there, and that surely must affect their judgement, sensitivity, and civility.  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 26, 2006, 10:07:08 pm
Pat and Old School,
      While I think that for the most part selection is fair (example WW and oxy last year WW lost to oxy by 1 and even though they won their last 10 in a row and oxy lost 3 of 5, oxy beat them.) But I think money shows where in the 2002-2003 season when 23-3 whitworth who won their league had to go to gustavus adolphus who didnt win their league and went 22-6 and ranked lower in the region.  The next game was going to be played in Wisconsin so it was cheaper to make WW play an away game even though they had earned a home contest.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 26, 2006, 10:12:36 pm
I can't argue with you there. The pairings and site selection process sucks sometimes.

More disappointing, the NCAA didn't even tell Whitworth why they had done this. They had to find out from me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 26, 2006, 10:46:30 pm
Well we do appreciate it, but it seems that NWC fans are not as educated in all of these dealings as back east.  I guess we are not around it( physically)  and are too busy looking out the window at the rainy weather wondering if we might make the post season and singing songs of hope throughout the mountains.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on December 27, 2006, 02:06:06 am
Leave Warren alone.

He sits on the other side of the scale to balance the rest of us LINFIELD posters.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Coach C on December 27, 2006, 07:32:46 am
I just stumbled across this discussion and i have to ask you a question.  Are you guys out of your #UCKING minds?  Insulting WARREN?

Warren was on this site when you guys were in diapers.  He has seen more basketball than 95% of the posters here.  If he and Pat agree on an issue, then they are probably right.  Insult most folks if you want to.  It may be rude, but it's ok.  But if you see a guy with Hall of Famer and nearly 80 karma points, you are dealing with a legend.

As for Pat, He gives you guys the opportunity to play here.  He is fuklly within his rights to be grumpy now and then.  He works like 10 hours a day at a real job then puts in abouth 8 or 10 providing content for the D3 sites.  For you guys to attack him shows zero class.

Finally, the selection system is not a real good on, but it was right last year on the Whit- Oxy deal.

Best,

C
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 27, 2006, 02:13:14 pm
To the poster whose post was just removed -- you might want to rethink your contribution to the board. Thanks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 27, 2006, 02:53:12 pm
To the poster whose post was just removed -- you might want to rethink your contribution to the board. Thanks.

Pat-

That is pretty outrageous to delete my post.  It had absolutely no profanity, nor rose close to the level of insult by calling a whole group of people “out of their #ucking minds” as C did in an earlier comment still on the board.  Every single point I made was either backed by prior posts or with some other evidentiary means.  It did not come out of “left field” and was a RESPONSE to C’s post.  Could you please let me know the rules on posting so I do not waste time on getting another response deleted?  Please let me know if this is the D3hoops.com board, the Pat Coleman board, or if the two one in the same.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Coach C on December 27, 2006, 02:55:19 pm
I will admit that in my 8 years of postin, that is the first time i have been moved to profanity.  Sometimes ignorance angers me beyond good sense.

I apologize for my language but not the sentiment behind it.  You guys need to get a clue.

C
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Observation Deck on December 27, 2006, 03:20:30 pm
If it was the post with the excessive insulting of Hall of Fame posters, you can blame me. I used the little report to moderator link and brought it to their attention.

You should have a little more common sense than that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 27, 2006, 03:30:17 pm
All I can say is, Freedom of speech RIP :-\!!!

I had the chance to read Gil's post before it was deleted and it was in no way as insulting as the one left by Coach C who is a "Hall of Famer" ???.  If anything C's post should have been erased for the use of profanity, which in my opinion, there is no room for on this board.    

However, that is beside the point.  

It's discouraging to know that comments have been taken too personally on this board, to the point of being erased.  Pat I have respect for you and your knowledge of bball and I appreciate the time you have put into d3hoops.com, same goes for Old School, Warren...etc.  Its just too bad, we had to stoop to this(censuring) on a message board designed for debate!  There were no personal attacks made until C dropped by, yet the "Jr. Varsity" posters are the ones being censured ???  It simply isn't justified.

I will certainly re-think speaking my mind when replying to a "Hall of Famer" in the future, hopefully they will do the same when they decide to make an off color remark on this Page, Even though I am only a "JV" poster.  My intent is not to step on any toes, I'm here to have a good time discussing basketball and anything else that may arise within these discussions.  I don't attack other posters until they have attacked me ;D

Here's to not taking yourself too seriously....cheers :D ;D ;)

Logs
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Coach C on December 27, 2006, 03:42:38 pm
There weren't any personal attacks before I showed up?

Maybe you should read back a bit.

C
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 27, 2006, 04:14:27 pm
To save the trouble, since you like me to cite sources:

You are nothing more than the P-man's unfunny sidekick ... you are free to go back and lie down in your kennel like a good dog. 

Be an athletic supporter not a cry baby!

You must be the annoying side kick that tries to be funny but never is.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 27, 2006, 05:04:18 pm
In an effort to take some steps in the right direction, I have decided not to speak my mind with regards to the last couple of posts.  I am just happy that we have such inspiring "Hall of Famers" to look up to and that they have graced us with their company here on the NWC board!!! I hope to follow their lead and be the best poster that I can be, to set the example for future generations of posters.  I would like to thank Pat for his very personal "PM" ;) and Coach C for his beautiful analysis and language on this board.  I just hope that some day, I to, can be on your level! 

Logs

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: The Observation Deck on December 27, 2006, 05:24:02 pm
Probably not a bad idea, considering you posted yourself into a corner with your denial of the truth.

If you ever leave this board and look around I would bet you'd find all sorts of interesting things these people are saying. But if you're locked in your own world here you will get a very limited view.

Expand your mind. D3 is big. There's a lot you could learn if you were interested.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 27, 2006, 07:53:04 pm
"Expand your mind. D3 is big. There's a lot you could learn if you were interested."  O-Deck

Wait...you mean to tell me that there is more to D3hoops than just the NWC post up board?  Are you sure ??? ...I had no idea!!!  I'm so excited now, I wish I could have expanded my mind sooner.   O-Deck you've saved me!!!  Now all I have to do is figure out what buttons to push so I can get there, hopefully I can run into another "hall of famer" to help me on my way.  You guys are so nice!  Helpful too! 
   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 27, 2006, 08:48:55 pm
Wow! when did the NWC board get so heated.  Everyone needs to calm down a bit. US NWCers need to conduct ourselves with a bit more class, but those "hall of famers" need to cut us a bit of slack as well.

 Warren please don't use the "he works at a real job and then puts in time at d3sports out of the goodness of his heart" routine on us.  In case you haven't noticed there are advertisements all over d3 sports, which means that as an administrator he gets paid The more hits your site gets a day, the more you can charge as a flat rate and per click.  Those ads aren't given away.  I completely support it though.  I'm not saying that Pat is in it for the money because as we know that is not why anyone becomes involved with d3 sports.  I'm just saying that he has more of a stake in it than the rest of us.  More is expected of him and he does deliver.  I thank him for all he does. 

Now back to the NWC as we should be talking about........  Who is with me that UPS and WW get in it this year.  I will bet 10 karma points that both get in and that they split during the league season.  The real question is who will be the third place team.  Honestly I have NO idea!  I don't think anyone else is good enough to get into the tourney.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 27, 2006, 08:56:21 pm
Warren please don't use the "he works at a real job and then puts in time at d3sports out of the goodness of his heart" routine on us. 

Hey, bucs:

That quote above isn't mine. Find a different target, please.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 27, 2006, 09:29:28 pm
my mistake I was lokking toward Coach..  And once again not looking to find a target, but how about this....Don't post on the board unless you are talking NWC basketball.  We talk UPS, Whitworth, Whitman, Willamette, PLU, Pacific, Linfield, Lewis and Clark, and George Fox. 
Lets end it there and get back to why the boards were created. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 27, 2006, 09:31:55 pm
And for Warren, Stick to your railroad history please
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 27, 2006, 09:50:36 pm
If I might be allowed to respond before the embargo goes into effect:

The message board is a loss leader in terms of advertising revenue. They're the lowest-paying ads on the site, and that's not unusual as the Net goes. The click rate is pretty low on a board. But we need a board, so we take the hit. We do fine lately in other parts of the site.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 27, 2006, 10:31:59 pm
See thats what I'm talking about.   I was wondering about that and now I know.  You need the board to keep other areas of ad revenue high that makes sense.   Thank you Pat for the information.   Ok lets do this,  here is my assesment of the NWC teams:

Whitworth: Best in the conference.  8-0 against ncaa d3 teams with a combined 37-42 opponent record (also a win at #17 wheaton)

Ups:  A close second.  7-0 against ncaa d3 teams with a combined record of 26-40. (have yet to play a top 30 or 35 team team)

Lewis and Clark:  Tough team to play if they are shooting well.  3-2 against ncaa d3 schools with a combined record of 20-23.  (impressive at times but defense is huge ?)

Pacific: Played WW tough and lit up a pretty good Cal Lutheran team.  3-2 against ncaa d3 teams with a combined record of 20-24.  (Play very tough but are also very inexperienced.

Willamette :  what will happen when Stuvland and Fife return?  0-4 against ncaa d3 teams with a combined record of 25-9 (have played a strong schedule so far.)

PLU:  better or the same ol' PLU?  4-0 against ncaa d3 teams with a combined record of 12-24.  have played good competition as of late and are 0-3

Linfield GF and Whitman coming soon.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on December 27, 2006, 10:36:05 pm
I have Whitworth as my team in the d3hoops survivor pool...  ::) ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 27, 2006, 10:43:52 pm
good call.   What made you pick them?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 28, 2006, 08:13:32 am
If I might be allowed to respond before the embargo goes into effect ....

"Embargo"?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Coach C on December 28, 2006, 09:28:15 am
What a lovely board where everyone talks NWC hoops.  I think I like it here!

C
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on December 28, 2006, 10:29:08 am
Bucs,

I agree that the NWC is looking to be pretty much a two horse race with UPS and WW.  Right now I would also have to say the edge goes to WW, simply because of playing and winning against some better competition.  I have a feeling UPS planned a fairly easy pre-conference schedule to allow themselves some room for error early on.  The reason being that they are very young and have a new head coach, this was very smart in my opinion. 

I'm looking forward to the showdown between Puget Sound and Whitworth coming up soon, it should be a great game! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on December 28, 2006, 12:48:22 pm
What can I say?  I have a flare for the dramatic.  Nothing wrong with a little entertainment here and there, but we have games this weekend so the peace treaty comes at a good time...

Heading in I agree with the two horse race of UPS-WW that we have seen over the past 3 years (with a hint of Willamette for good measure).  I am not sure that I would be so quick to give WW the edge as Logs is.  It is undeniable that Wheaton victory gives WW the edge in better wins, and that WW has avoided the close calls that UPS has. 

The thing troubling me about the WW squad is that they only go 7 players deep.  Out of these 7 you have Williams, Young, and either Symes or Jones (sometimes both) playing 40 minutes anytime they get into a relatively close game, with the 7th guy only playing 4-6 mins.  Due to the tempo and style, it is difficult to beat UPS with really only a 6 man rotation, especially with only one of those six able to handle the pressure.  The season...as well as the UPS pressure could wear on them.

UPS has shown that they can score once again, but it looks like some adjustments are going to need to be made to that defense to make it through conference as opponent field goal %'s at 60+ will not cut it.  However, they have shown the ability to find ways to win the close ones and those are the victories that tend to separate teams from the rest.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on December 28, 2006, 01:24:23 pm
Thats a very good point Gil.   The short rotation has served WW well so far but it will be tough to keep it to 7 men against the UPS pressure.  There will be early turnovers but I think the key for WW will be rebounding.  They will force three pointers and that will mean tougher rebounds.  I think that whoever wins the boards will take home the W.  Can't wait for that one myself should be a great mid-season matchup between two top 15 teams.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 03, 2007, 10:59:28 am
Congrats to WW sitting pretty at #6, another couple wins and they could easily be top five!  With UPS at #13 we could be looking at a possible NWC top ten matchup this season!  Good luck to everyone as we head back into league play.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 03, 2007, 02:05:12 pm
Nice post Logs...looks like it will sit good with the Hall of Famers.

Looks like the board has been pretty dead.  Let's try and pick it up a little.

While it is the NWC and any team can win on any given night and all NWC basketball games have big impact on records with only 16 games...cliche, I know....there are not any extraordinary match ups this week. 

Game of the Week: LC at Willamette

LC is always dangerous, and Willamette should have all their guys back by now. Correct?  With Willamette being at home, and the 0-2 start, this is nearly a "must win" situation if the Cats want a shot at some NWC post season. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 05, 2007, 12:59:52 am
So what do you all think of Kyle Born's 53 point performance last night?  In any normal circumstance 53 points is an amazing total, but the Missionaries were playing Redlands.  So while the Bulldogs are giving up layups to get chances at three pointers, Born is pouring in 25 of 29 shots.  He was essentially taking lay up drills all night. 

I am not sure I give as much respect to that accomplishment as another player scoring 35-40 against a team that actually plays defense past halfcourt.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 05, 2007, 01:02:30 am
Gilbert,

I am interested to see how your Boxers do against WU and UPS this weekend.  The Boxers can make a big early step if they want to contend for a playoff spot.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 05, 2007, 12:29:03 pm
Willamette is facing what basically amounts to a make or break weekend...

Win both, they are right in the race for third...

Lose both, they are in SERIOUS trouble that they probably won't dig their way out of...

They will not have Erickson or Fife for the rest of the year...Stuvland could be back tonight...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 05, 2007, 01:58:47 pm
PineCone-

53 and 16 is 53 and 16...You have to give Born credit for a GREAT performance.  However, you make a good point in having to keep it in perspective.  It was a little over a third of a 149 point outing by Whitman in which they somehow still ended up on the losing end of the contest. Either all the planets were aligned and it was Born's birthday OR  your layup assumption was a good one as he was 25-29 from the field.  Born has been putting up really good numbers since last year so I do not want to discredit a solid performance from a great player, but I hope he took Warner and Brandal out to dinner afterwards, as they handled the press to combine for 26 assists. ;)

I do not know what to think of the Boxer's this year.  They have had some solid performances, like against Cal Lut, but then you have these outings like La Sierra.  This is Lowery's first recruiting class so he should get a little slack on the lack of consistency.  However, barring last year, Pacific has always made it tough on the Loggers...and the rest of the conference to an extent...at their place.  Maybe its the mascot in the middle of the floor?  This was actually the other game I was contemplating mentioning...It should be a good one.  Good Call PineCone!

Bearcats-
Dissapointing to here about Fife and Erickson, they would have definitely contributed to making the NWC race more interesting.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 05, 2007, 02:01:56 pm
Either all the planets were aligned and it was Born's birthday OR  your layup assumption was a good one as he was 25-29 from the field. 

That's typical when you're playing against a System team like Redlands or Grinnell. IF you can break the press in the backcourt you are in for an easy layup in the frontcourt. This is very, very typical.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 05, 2007, 02:37:21 pm
BCats-

With matchups against LC and Pacific coming up for WU this weekend I should think you will get a great feel for if your Cats can compete for third in the conference.  I think LC and Pac will be right there in the hunt for the third spot, if WU can take care of them both this weekend it gives them a huge advantage in the race for the playoffs.  In my opinion your guys are more than capable of winning especially if you have Stuvland back tonight.  Also I don't think you will miss the other two players a whole lot because Nugent(I always want to call him Ted) is being very productive.  Good luck this weekend!

Gotta agree with Gil on the Borne 53, no matter how you do it 53 is a lot of points.  Pat is of course correct about how it is much much much easier to do against Redlands/Grinell but, 53 is 53 in my book.

Gil- why are the boxers so inconsistent this year?  Some nights I see they get good wins and other nights they lose to bad/OK teams.  Any ideas? 
 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 06, 2007, 11:25:37 pm
11+ minutes into the game, and high-flying Puget Sound has been held to 10 points on 4 of 11 shooting.  With 8:54 left in the 1st, Pacific leads the Loggers 16-10. 

Whitworth has already disposed of George Fox tonight, 83-53 to move to 13-0.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 06, 2007, 11:46:51 pm
Pacific barely withstands a late Logger run and goes into the half leading 30-29.  Pacific is shooting 55.6% but has been forced into 13 turnovers.  UPS' shooting improved from a 5-for-15 start to finish at 47.6% (10/21), but they have missed 5 free throws (7/12).

UPDATE:  UPS goes on a 10-0 run to open up a 43-37 lead with 14:42 left.
UPDATE:  This half, it's Pacific that is missing free throws (4/8 so far after going 9/9 in the 1st).  Must be the rim at that end of the court.  UPS leads 46-44, 11:35 left.
UPDATE:  Nine lead changes and five ties in the first 12+ minutes of the second half; it reads like an excellent game (although, too many free throws for my taste; 41 so far)!  Tied, 53-53, 7:05 left.
UPDATE:  Boxers on a 6-0 run, lead 59-55, 5:28 left.  Before I can finish typing this, UPS hits two free throws to cut the lead in half.
UPDATE:  It looks like Pacific is a pretty good defensive team, judging from their scores.  UPS hasn't scored less than 92 in a game this season, and they are just at 59 with 4:11 left.  Pacific leads 65-59.
UPDATE:  Pacific should have put this game away by now, but 11/19 free throw shooting continues to haunt them.  69-63 Boxers, 2:43 left.
UPDATE:  Jordan Thurston hits a three, and UPS calls timeout, trailing by 3 (71-68) with 1:42 left.
UPDATE:  DeLong steals and is fouled, hitting one of two, but Van Domelen answers with a jumper.  73-69 Boxers 0:36 left.
UPDATE:  Another steal for DeLong, but Williams missed a three.  DeLong is fouled and hits two, 73-71, 0:14.  Timeout, UPS.
UPDATE:  Pacific inbounds and Thurston fouls with 0:12 left, sending Wong to the line.  30 second timeout for Pacific.  Wong hits both, 75-71.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 07, 2007, 12:55:26 am
Williams misses a layup for UPS and Foster fouls Wong on the rebound with 0:04 left and Pacific up 4.  Looks like the upset is in the books as Wong drains both free throws.  Williams misses a three at the horn, and Pacific holds on to win 77-71.

Heck of a game.  Ten lead changes and five ties in the first 14 minutes of the second half, Pacific took the lead for good with 6:07 left.  Boxers shot 61% from the floor and had four scorers in double figures led by Donn Harrison-Davis's 18.  Ross Bartlett had a double-double, with 12 points and 10 boards.  UPS also had four in double figures, led by 16 apiece from Antwan Williams and Ryan DeLong.  As a team UPS shot just 42%, including 31.3% from the arc, and only 37.9% overall in the 2nd half.  UPS forced 23 turnovers but were badly outrebounded, 38-17.  And the two teams combined to miss 19 free throws (10 by UPS and 9 by Pacific, all in the 2nd half).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 07, 2007, 02:54:42 pm
Wow, so UPS loses at Pacific.  What could've been a meeting of top-ten teams in Spokane on Friday now will carry extra incentive for the Loggers.  They way the Pirates are currently playing - I don't know that UPS can afford to fall two games behind.

But it is still early.  L&C had a big weekend too.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 07, 2007, 07:27:01 pm
Looks like Pacific pulled off the upset, mixing up the NWC even more than expected.

Both Medved and Wood did not play, arguably two of the most key components of the Logger bench and a significant part of the rotation.  DeLong did not start and was limited to 18 minutes.  This pushed Williams, Marsh, and Foster into the 30+ minute range, making for an unusual UPS rotation.

Either way this puts major significance (as if there was not enough prior to the Pacific loss) on next weeks matchup with WW.  UPS has not lost back to back conference games in 3+ years.  Hopefully they get the full rotation back so we can see this highly anticipated match up in its full form. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 07, 2007, 08:00:58 pm
Don't know if you've heard gil but medved is off the team and is no longer on the roster.  That hurts with only one true 3 point shooter now in marsh.   My prediction is that the Whitworth train keeps on rolling.  The blowout of GF was a warmup for them and now the real fun begins
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 08, 2007, 10:31:53 am
Well....this weekend was not kind to the Loggers, that's about the best way to put it.  It's certainly not time to push that panic button, but if they want a shot at the NWC title they won't be able to lose many more.  WW is still looking very strong and is in lone possession of first place, if the bucks ;) continue to play like they have been playing then it looks like it will come down to a dog fight for 2nd and 3rd. 

Next Friday's game should show what UPS really has, hopefully they will use the loss as motivation to step up their game and play big at WW.  If they drop two in a row that would not be good this early in conference play. 

Bucs- I heard about Medved but I haven't heard why, do you have any idea why he is off the team...Again?  And you are right, only one great 3 point shooter is the last thing the logs need right now!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on January 08, 2007, 04:32:56 pm
I'd rather not specualate, but Medved had struggled with grades in the past. He was ineligible for the Fall 2 years ago, but was still on the team. He ended up not being eligible for the Spring either and ended up transferring to a CC that spring. And with fall grades being released last week, that could be a reason...

But don't quote me on that.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 09, 2007, 01:51:32 am
I wouldn't put too much into the UPS Pacific game...While it does put UPS into a tiny hole in terms of the conference standings, they are still a very talented team and If I'm remembering correctly Pacific gave Whitworth a tough game.  But with the way Whitworth played this past weekend and the fact they are home this friday, I think they have to be the favorites in this game against UPS.  I don't expect a 20 point win like last year's home matchup against the loggers, but a Pirate victory none-the-less.  By the way UPSoundLogs, thanks for the ribbing but the "Bucks" are coming off of a 108-105 loss to the Wizards but Michael Redd remains red hot...if only us Bucs had him playing for us then the NAIA glory days would be restored here at Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 09, 2007, 10:24:56 am
HaHaHa :D I like it Rat, that's the kind of stuff we need around here.  A little jab here and there without people taking offense and getting upset about it!

Gotta agree with you about the WW edge for this weekend, they are looking tough, especially with the game being played in Spokane.  After the loss over the weekend to Pac look for coach Lunt to have the Loggers fired up and ready to play though.  I think it should be a great game, I wish I could be there to watch. 

Obviously I'm gonna stick with my guys, I've got Loggers 81 Bucks 79
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 09, 2007, 01:26:01 pm
HaHaHa :D I like it Rat, that's the kind of stuff we need around here. 

That is good that Rat and Logs have made friendly....I guess we are not as bad over here in the NWC as most suspect.

Thanks for the info Bucs/PennSt.  I think the Medved loss may be greater than what appears.  Medved was a big 3 point threat, but from what I saw he was solid in the press and could put the ball on the floor as well.  He was a left hander and when UPS put him on the right wing he could effectively bring the ball middle breaking defenses down as oppose to going baseline right into the help, and we all know that UPS is all about the one on one play.  Medved, like Marsh spread the court out making such play easier, and more importantly garnered attention against zone defenses, the only type of defense that seems to be consistently effective against the Loggers. 

However, like Rat said, the loss to Pacific (and of Medved for that matter) does not necessitate the pressing of the "Panic" button quite yet.  WW last year did drop to GFU and PLU on the road before ending the season on a tear.  While it is an unexpected loss, year in and year out has proven that you have to protect your home court if you want to win the NWC, and then pick up as many on the road as possible.

As for Fri...the timing edge has to go to UPS.  They just came of a dissapointing loss and I am sure Lunt and the team are using it to their advantage to focus themselves.  Meanwhile,  WW is sitting undefeated.  It can have an effect....look at the smacking UPS took last year on WW's court.

BUT....overall advantage has to WW.  Record and wins speak loud enough.

Either way Good LUC!! ;)
Title: Re: (No subject)
Post by: (509)Rat on January 10, 2007, 02:19:53 am
Yes, Gilbert...The counseling has paid off.  See, my dad was killed by a lumberjack (or logger if you prefer) so I've always had this deep hatred for the hairy folk from the Sound.  But I realized that UPSoundLogs and his gang of rough and rugged, gruff and disgruntled wood choppers aren't all that bad.

Whitworth 85
UPS 74

The margin of victory will look bigger because UPS will foul at the end in an attempt come from behind to beat the Pirates on their home court...Whitworth (unlike WSU the other night in their victory over Arizona) will make their free throws and with no Medved the Loggers can't catch up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 10, 2007, 02:43:14 am
Pacific gets another good win tonight, beating L&C in OT.  Could the Boxers be building some consistency?  If so, they will have to be reckoned with at the end.

However it also means that Whitworth has a chance to be two games up on the rest of the NWC after this weekend's games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 11, 2007, 02:34:43 pm
Great Whitworth-UPS preview in around the nation.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 11, 2007, 02:42:57 pm
Whitworth seems to be the logical choice in the big NWC battle this weekend...

a. Homecourt advantage
b. Senior point guard used to dealing with UPS pressure
c.  Big men capable of finishing off all the transition baskets the Loggers give up
d. A shooter in young capable of stretching the Loggers back line guys, allowing more easy layups
e. Catching the loggers coming off a loss to a Pacifc team that lost the Bearcats (who are STRUGGLING) the night before
f. A veteran coach

UPS should enjoy
a. An overall quickness superiority
b. Better depth, as Whitworth (looking at the stats) plays about 6.75 guys
c. A motivational aide, as they must realize a 2nd loss this early puts them actually 3 games behind the pirates in the race for the NWC

I still like the Pirates....say 87-80...

As for the WU, Stuvland plays for the first time Friday...maybe that can end the up and down nature of the season (but in all honesty, with LC beating WU, then losing to Pacifc...a lot of teams are bunched with either 2 or 3 conference losses...the race for third should stay tight all year long...)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 12, 2007, 11:56:11 pm
WW leads UPS at the half, 31-26.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on January 13, 2007, 12:00:52 am
keep me posted, that's my survivor team! lol  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 13, 2007, 12:13:44 am
14:38 left, WW lead down to one, 39-38.

UPDATE:  WW lead out to 5, 51-46, 10:35 left.
UPDATE:  WW 53, UPS 51, 9:40 remaining.
UPDATE:  UPS briefly had a 2-point lead, but WW answers and now leads by 2, 62-60, 6:18 left.
UPDATE:  WW 64-60, 5:07.
UPDATE:  During timeouts, KSBN plays a commercial for "Columbia Hearing Centers," enticing me to get hearing aids by forcing me to listen to a woman singing so badly out of tune that I want to claw my own ears off.  What a way to drum up customers! :)
UPDATE:  DeLong with the old-fashioned three point play gives UPS a 67-66 lead, 3:17 left.
UPDATE:  UPS 70-68, 2:34.  Two points is UPS' largest lead of the game.
UPDATE:  Two free throws tie the game.  UPS answers, 72-70.  Backdoor dunk by Symes, tied again at 72, 1:31.
UPDATE:  UPS hits, then WW misses.  UPS ball 74-72.  They eat the whole shot clock and score, 76-72, :30.
UPDATE:  0:17 left, UPS steals the inbounds pass, foul. 
UPDATE:  Krall (sp?) hits one of two, 77-72. 
UPDATE:  WW gets up several shots but none fall.  FINAL SCORE 77-72 UPS.  Sorry, Old School.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 13, 2007, 02:59:50 am
Wow, tough loss for the Pirates tonight.  Loggers deserve a lot a credit.  Just wore down Whitworth in the second half and forced the Pirates to play the UPS game.

Didn't know Jones was hurt until game time.  Not having him really hurt, both in ball handling and shooting.  Hope he is back soon.

No break away by the Bucs, we've got a tight race in the NWC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 13, 2007, 03:19:04 pm
So both the nationally ranked NWC teams lost recently.  :-\

In touch with a colleague this week and we agreed the NWC at one time played 3 games against each other.

Just a bit of trivia since LINFIELD has nothing to do with winning the conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 13, 2007, 08:48:05 pm
Yeah, UPS hit a ton of shots from beyond the arc...in fact they hit 8 and whitworth made a whopping 0 3-pointers.  The Pirates also missed too many short (and I mean short) jumpers and even a few layups.  Having Jones out hurt, and now Young is a little banged up and wont be starting tonight.  But after watching the game last night I still think Whitworth is the better team this year, UPS just made their shots last night.  Well, looks like the NWC race is back on...good luck to the Pirates tonight as they take on PLU.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2007, 12:13:19 am
So both the nationally ranked NWC teams lost recently.  :-\

In touch with a colleague this week and we agreed the NWC at one time played 3 games against each other.

Just a bit of trivia since LINFIELD has nothing to do with winning the conference.
DOC, that must have been back in the NAIA days when more games were permitted.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 15, 2007, 03:36:20 am
NAIA, true Ralph.
It seems the coaches wanted out of that schedule to allow for more pre-season/Christmas tournaments.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 16, 2007, 10:44:00 am
I've been away from the board for a few days but I feel like I should mention, UPS BEAT WW... AT WHITWORTH(just in case nobody noticed)!!!  Even if JJones is out that is a huge win!  I wasn't at the game so I can't comment on details but I'm impressed.  Just when I thought UPS couldn't possibly be any worse (loss to Pac) they go and do something like this....AND TOTALLY REDEEM THEMSELVES!!! 

Rat- it seems as if you have come down with a slight touch of poorloseritis.  Just so you know, UPS averages over 10 made threes a game, 8 is nothing, you should just be happy they were cold on Friday.  I agree with you that not having Jones hurts...but so does blowing a 17-4 lead at home ;) OUCH!!!

Great road trip East of the mountains Loggers.  Keep the W's coming!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 16, 2007, 03:26:53 pm
First of all having jones out does not kinda hurt, it is huge.  He averaged 25 points per game last year against UPS in just 24 minutes of playing time, he is a ups killer.  But that aside, LOgs you should know that UPS' game is about runs.  they give up 15-0 runs and they go on 15-0 runs.  the 17-4 was with 32 minutes still left in the game.  I wouldn't call getting up by 13 with 12 minutes to go in the first half and the whole second half still to play "blowing a huge lead"  Congrats though on a game well played.  It seemed that UPS was able to substitute much better than WW.  UPS went about 8 deep with solid minutes from the bench and WW tried to have Young, Williams, Symes, and Willemsen play 39,38,39,and 38 minutes.  Seems like a close game with those minutes played would favor UPS considerably.  WW needs to find a better way to get their starters some rest in the next meeting.  Should be a good one in a few weeks and in the meanwhile lets hope for Occidental to keep sweeping through the sciac so that we can both do some damage in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 16, 2007, 04:06:36 pm
BELIEVE ME Bucs, the JJones effect is certainly taken into account as I enjoy Friday's victory.  He does have a way of coming up huge every time he plays UPS :-\ I can't disagree with you there.  However, I doubt that someone who has beaten UPS once in his career deserves the nickname "UPS killer". 

I do look forward to the next match up in a few weeks, does it look like JJones will be ready to go by then or will he still be a cheerleader at that time? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 16, 2007, 08:24:38 pm
not sure about jones for next time.  From what I've heard it looks like the soonest he would be back would be the games at Whitman and at home against Willamette which are WW's last 2 regular season games.  But, and I think you would agree with me on this, UPS and WW will play 3 times this year possibly 4 if both go to the national tourny.  I see eith UPS or WW in 1st and the other in 2nd with an unknown 3rd place team (lc or pac) having to play at WW or UPS.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 17, 2007, 03:17:15 pm
Bucs-

In my opinion your vision is correct about a WW vs. UPS conference tourney title game.  However, LC and Pac can't be ignored.  Both have come up with a suprising amount of wins thus far in conference.  I'll be better prepared to judge LC after this Friday because they come to Tacoma and I'm going to the game.  I think both of them are very dangerous teams, especially on the road (as UPS found out the hard way) :-\ 

How do you think WW will handle the bulk of the regular season without JJones?  They still have some VERY tough games on the road, including a trip to UPS.  Do you think they will have the fire power to stay in the top two spots for the end of the year?  Symes looks good but after him their scoring seems pretty inconsistent...I would say they are gonna have their work cut out for them until JJ gets back. 

BCats-

What's the status buddy?  Is WU gonna make a run with the return of Stuvland or will their downward spiral continue?  It's wierd talking about the conference leaders without your Cats in the mix! Any thoughts?

Anybody know where Gil went?  I hope P-coleman and the rest of the old timers...I mean... Hall of Famers didn't scare him off!!! :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 17, 2007, 09:55:16 pm
I think defensively WW will be fine.  since jones has been out they have held UPS to 77, PLU to 56 and Whitman to 59.  However offensively it is a big hit.  They won't beat teams in the second half of the league 90-80, they will have to win with their defense.  Also if Hasenfus keeps boarding like  the last few games they will be a very good rebounding team because of their size.   As far as tough roadtrips, I think the toughest of the year will be next weekend when they go to pacific and LC.  Not downplaying the UPS game in Tacoma, but WW has to play very well two nights in a row to come out of there with what they want.  Those two games I think will be the biggest of the season for the team and the seperation of the leagues 1st and second place teams vs. the others fighting for 3rd.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 18, 2007, 03:05:43 pm

Someone from the WU, somewhere, at sometime, must have done something truly terrible, because the Karma with the BCats right now is ridiculous...

Stuvland regains his eligibility, only to severely sprain his ankle in practice the day before the Fox game...

Erickson gets a medical clear to play, gives them a great 21 minutes and 3 seconds before reinjuring himself for the year taking a charge with 57 seconds to play...

Fife is gone...

Michael Plank is forced to play the first semester (due to all the injuries) and now has exhausted his semesters of eligibility...

Tain Cantrell (fr. post from Westview HS) starts to play well, gets the start at George Fox, but now is out with a medical condition he had to be hospitalized for...the players haven't told me yet when he will be back...


Obviously, every team goes through injuries, but losing that many key players has definately contributed to the Bcats up and down ways...this is a team that lost 140-137 AT UPS, but then got blown out by PLU...this is a team that beat Pacific, only to get romped by George Fox...

I truly have no idea what to expect Friday against the Pirates...only that the 'Cats are more than capable of getting crushed...or getting a huge upset win...

Who knows...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 18, 2007, 03:29:04 pm
Holy Wow Bcats!!!  That's an impressive/depressing injured reserve list you have there.  I think you're right, someone from WU must have spit on the Pope or something...Your Karma is terrible :-\!!!  Injuries are one thing, but half the squad out of commission is quite another.  All I can say is keep on truckin buddy! 

I'm just glad I have my lucky rabbits foot that I keep in my right pocket at all times...maybe you should look into getting one for yourself.  Good Luck ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 19, 2007, 01:42:56 pm
Anybody know where Gil went?  I hope P-coleman and the rest of the old timers...I mean... Hall of Famers didn't scare him off!!! :D

Logs-
Sorry, there was a marathon of "Who's the Boss?" on television and I love Tony Danza.  I got a little distracted.  Thanks for caring :-*.

Yeah, UPS hit a ton of shots from beyond the arc...in fact they hit 8 and whitworth made a whopping 0 3-pointers....  But after watching the game last night I still think Whitworth is the better team this year, UPS just made their shots last night.

Rat-
It sounds like you may be shadowboxing a good performance.  I was unfortunately unable to make the game and cannot attest to the live action, but UPS went into unbeaten WW's home floor and "made their shots," good arguments that they are the better team this year.  You mention that WW made no three pointers.  I think the more telling stat is that WW only ATTEMPTED 3 three pointers.  I would blame it on a bad shooting night if they went 0-10 or maybe even 0-8.  However UPS held a team accustomed to around 16 attempts in a 50-60 possession game to 3 attempts in a 65-75 possession game.  (Jon Young usually takes 7 on his own!)  For once, the UPS DEFENSE may deserve a little credit.  It seems as if they were rotating well and getting out to shooters.  (However, it is not that surprising as, besides forcing turnovers, the three point line has been the other consistent bright spot of the UPS defense)

  Should be a good one in a few weeks and in the meanwhile lets hope for Occidental to keep sweeping through the sciac so that we can both do some damage in the playoffs.

UPS and WW will, at best, have four in region losses between them by the end of the season.  Without putting the cart too far ahead of the horse, if Oxy continues and gets a high region ranking, there may end up being an NWC first round matchup similar to the Claremont-Oxy fiasco of last year.  A little bitter sweet.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 19, 2007, 02:26:21 pm
Gil, welcome back!!!

I'm not even gonna touch on your Tony Danza fetish...I'm just glad it's your problem and not mine :o

Anyways......Big game tonight between UPS and LC, finally a UPS home game I can attend!!!  I'm interested to see LC play, they must be doing something right to be 3rd in league right now, hopefully its an exciting game. 

Prediction: UPS 110 and LC 90, It will be close for most of the game but LC won't have enough fire power to keep up for the whole game and they will fizzle out in the last ten minutes.  Plus I can't imagine UPS not reaching 100+ at home.  Good luck fellas!

I think Gil is right, if we do end up with two NWC teams and one SCIAC team in the tourney the two NWC teams will probably be made to play each other in the first round...then the winner plays, and probably punishes, the SCIAC team(again).    I can't claim I know all the details but that seems like the most likely outcome.   Pat can you fill in some of the blanks for us JV boys...pretty please ;D? 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 19, 2007, 03:14:39 pm
Pat can you fill in some of the blanks for us JV boys...pretty please ;D? 

I would like to point out LOGS that you are no longer a JV Boy and now outclass me as a Second Stringer.  Congratulations.

Whoever put my Karma down a notch for my last post....I hope it was for the UPS/WW commentary because Tony Danza is a great actor.

Willamette sounds like they are down in man power but if history can tell us anything about the WW-WU series...you cannot over look this game.  Should be a good night!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 19, 2007, 10:14:19 pm
Quote
It seems as if they were rotating well and getting out to shooters.  (However, it is not that surprising as, besides forcing turnovers, the three point line has been the other consistent bright spot of the UPS defense)

You are correct Gil, they were getting out to the shooters but they always will get out to shooters because of the defense they run.  That 3/4 to full court press where they jump (double) everything and will guard you no matter where you are on the court is why Whitworth wasn't taking three's.  What Whitworth did do was give the ball to Symes and Williams, let them beat there guy off the dribble and pull up and take a shot from about 4-5 feet out, or wait for UPS's help and dish it to hasenfus and jurich for easy layups.  The only problem is that whitworth missed one too many easy layups and short...and I mean very short...jumpers.  Last year I thought UPS was the better team even though Whitworth played them very tight twice and beat them badly once, Whitworth just happened to get hot on the right night.  I think UPS is the same way at this point.  Whitworth didn't play a great game and UPS did, but I still think Whitworth beats UPS more often than not if they were to play each other every weekend.  But if both teams play to their potential the NWC should get two teams into the tourney this year and thats one thing I think we can all root for.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 20, 2007, 03:13:15 pm
Well I can't say it was a pretty game last night in Tacoma.  In Fact, I thought UPS was not gonna pull off the win for most of the second half.  The Loggers finally started playing defense(kind of) and making some shots with about 10 minutes left in the game.  Plus LC couldn't make a free throw to save their lives down the stretch, this led to a pretty dramatic come back from 13 down for the Logs to win by 6. 

I was very impressed by Tillery from LC, he was cutting through the press like nothing and was the leading scorer for the game.  He's VERY quick and was blowing right by UPS at every oppurtunity for an easy layup. 

Not too many highlights for UPS tonight.  However, Robert Kraul played very well(24 and 9 I think).  Joson Foster and Ryan Delong had off nights and when they aren't scoring things get pretty ugly. 

Oh well, a win is a win, my predictions for the game were WAY OFF but I guess I can't have all the answers all the time ;D.  Congrats to the Loggers on a hard fought come back win!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 22, 2007, 06:25:53 pm
Back to NWC business.  Tired of dealing with the SoCal lawyer who specializes in truthiness.  Don't know if I've ever been misquoted so much in my life, including areguements with the spouse!

So Gilbert - what do you think Whitworth's chances are of winning at both Pacific and L&C this weekend?  Seems like this is the key weekend of the second half for the Pirates (leaving out for one second the Pirate-Loggers rematch).

Your Boxers have shown the typical up-and-down syndrome of youth.  What's your take on how they'll respond to a pair of tough losses this past weekend?  They have certainly played well at home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 22, 2007, 06:29:29 pm
Also - anyone know when the regional rankings start getting posted?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 22, 2007, 06:39:51 pm
Yeah no kidding Pinecone, he's pretty painful to debate with...the guy doesn't even make sense.  Oh well, that's what we get for trying to make conversation with the SCIAC I guess!

Not sure about the rankings, sorry.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 22, 2007, 10:37:25 pm
what is the deal with those laguna beach wackos
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 12:32:50 am
Also - anyone know when the regional rankings start getting posted?

First week of February.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 01:06:54 pm
Bucs77, I don't know who your made-up source is, but mine is the schools' annual Title IX filing with the U.S. Department of Education.

From 2005-06:
Occidental MBB budget: $44,028
Whitworth MBB budget: $58,667

These numbers are reported to the federal government each year as part of Title IX.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 23, 2007, 01:55:46 pm
Bucs77, I don't know who your made-up source is, but mine is the schools' annual Title IX filing with the U.S. Department of Education.

From 2005-06:
Occidental MBB budget: $44,028
Whitworth MBB budget: $58,667

These numbers are reported to the federal government each year as part of Title IX.

Pat,

These numbers are reported as "operating expenses".  Since Whitworth does travel more to play out of state and in-state teams (non-conference and conference games) it would make sense to have greater operating expenses.  Am I missing something or are "budget" and "operating expenses" synonyms?

Attached: snapshot of Operating Expenses report
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 01:58:27 pm
Pat,
          I also found those numbers and then realized that those are not how much the school gives each program at the beginning of the year, but rather how much they spent in total on the team for the year.  So please get your facts straight before you come back
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 01:59:14 pm
you are exactly right cat.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 02:00:36 pm
Let's not mince words here. Here's what they spent. If they are confident enough in this figure to report it to the federal government then I am sure they will stand behind it in this measly forum.

Besides, who's to say they didn't overspend their budget and cover for it by fundraising? Your "get your facts straight" goes both ways, bucs.

Who's the made-up source you want us to believe?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:05:52 pm
pat we were talking about means to travel.  The Sciac board was giving sob stories about how they weren't given the MBB budget that WW was given.  I pointed out that it simply wasn't true.  At the beginning of the year OXY is starting with more money from the institution.   You are right in that after that the fundraising can go up, but lets not accuse someone of being a liar when they are in fact correct.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 02:06:51 pm
You haven't given your source, though. You want us to believe that you have numbers that show more than a 25% change from what the numbers I listed show? You better come up with some damn good evidence to back that up.

I've backed my statement. You back yours.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:10:21 pm
Tell me the good in giving the source.  Is it so you can look them up to see if they work there, or is it so that you can call them and say "I'm trying to win an arguement"  How about you actually call an figure it out like I did.   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 02:12:00 pm
Nope. I have a published, verifiable source. You have hearsay. I think the burden is on the person who is providing the hearsay to back it up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:15:48 pm
go ahead and hide behind that.  I hope it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside to know that you brought a source that means nothing to the table.  I think im gonna research how much ww spent on food and then bring that in a PUBLISHED article. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:16:39 pm
 If you want the straight numbers then chew on this.  WW is given in the 25,000 range at the beginning of the year from the school.  Fundraising by the coach and players gets them up to over double where they start.  Think about what you are saying before you talk.  Oh and yes that is a fact because I am one of the donors for their program and have talked with the WW coaches on more than one occasion about the #s
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 02:18:16 pm
I guess you think Whitworth is the only school that does fundraising?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:23:58 pm
I feel like there is an echo in here.  We are having the same conversation on 2 boards, anyway.  The question was over who was allocated more resources/funds at the beginning of the year by their respective school.  WW or Oxy.  You have established that OXY spent less overall. That was not the question.  I have answered it and it is factual assuming I was not given false information by the athletic dept.s.  you can research the correct question for yourself or we will drop it.

UPSLOGS I think I'm fading into the depths of NEGATIVE KARMA
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 23, 2007, 02:24:45 pm
I understand what you are saying bucs!  

Just like WW, UPS also fundraises A LOT to help with Travel/Food/Fun/etc. expenses to make the D3 spending budget that they are given stretch out and allow the players a more enjoyable experience.  There is a BIG difference between what a teams "Budget" is and what a teams "Operating Expenses" are over the course of a season.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 02:25:12 pm
For all teams. Not just Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 23, 2007, 02:26:54 pm
I found the operating expenses info on Basketball to be interesting.

Here is the breakdown on the NWC and SCIAC in terms of OE:

NWC:
$75,513 -UPS
$58,667-Whitworth
$47,981-Whitman
$47,591-GFU
$46,153-Willamette
$41,498-Linfield
$34,384-Pacific
$30,853-L&C

SCIAC:
$44,028-Oxy
$36,175-Claremont
$23,975-Redlands
$22,000-Chapman
$16,262-Cal Lu
$14,507-LaVerne
$14,431-Pamona
$10,400-Whittier
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:27:30 pm
haha, are you a little slow pat?
C'mon man.... do you agree that we have established your facts are useless?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 23, 2007, 02:32:25 pm
HaHaHaHaHa :D

Bucs-
 Join the club in the depths of the negative karma black hole!  My Karma has been ticking away since my first post, I was doomed from the start.  Just make sure that you check both ways when crossing the street...and if you see a black cat RUUUUUUN!!!!   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 02:35:04 pm
haha, are you a little slow pat?
C'mon man.... do you agree that we have established your facts are useless?

No, I have other things to do than argue with you on two boards.

I have facts. You have hearsay. Until that changes your words mean nothing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 23, 2007, 02:35:41 pm
I feel like I got stuck talking to that slow kid in high school who doesn't understand that you asked him how he was doing not what he ate for lunch
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 23, 2007, 03:24:48 pm
Man, 45 minutes and you still have no facts? Guess it's over, then.

BTW, insulting another poster is no way to make your point.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 23, 2007, 05:26:44 pm
Soooo... ;)

Logs/Bearcats - Are either of you anticpating a repeat of the three-overtime thriller this weekend in Salem?  Can Willamette match its performance from December?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 23, 2007, 05:40:51 pm
Pcones-

Geez, I hope there isn't another triple overtime game, that was painful to watch. 

WU is a very tough place to play, even though they are having a real down year that trip still worries me :-\.  In my opinion UPS is their own worst enemy, they have TONS of talent but are very young and don't play hard at times.  If they come out with a spirited effort they are more than capable of playing with the best teams in the country...if they come out half heartedly they are more than capable of losing to the worst teams in the country.  It's as simple as that.

After a down weekend this past weekend(barely getting wins over LC and Linfield AT UPS) I'm guessing they will have a tough week of practice and be ready to go at WU.  With the cats being in a downward spiral this season I'm guessing a double digit win for the Loggers.

Prediction- UPS 91     WU 80

Bcats....what do you think?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 24, 2007, 03:08:56 am
I found the operating expenses info on Basketball to be interesting.

Here is the breakdown on the NWC and SCIAC in terms of OE:

NWC:
$75,513 -UPS
$58,667-Whitworth
$47,981-Whitman
$47,591-GFU
$46,153-Willamette
$41,498-Linfield
$34,384-Pacific
$30,853-L&C

SCIAC:
$44,028-Oxy
$36,175-Claremont
$23,975-Redlands
$22,000-Chapman
$16,262-Cal Lu
$14,507-LaVerne
$14,431-Pamona
$10,400-Whittier

Chapman isn't in the SCIAC, wildcat11. It's an independent school. And you forgot Caltech.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 24, 2007, 11:46:12 am
First time poster, long time fan.

First half is over, mid-season awards?  Player of the year, coach of the year, surprises, dissapointments?  Predictions?

Symes has put up great numbers for Whitworth, Lunt and Hayford both have their teams with only one loss at the break.

Pacific has had some big wins in Lowery's second year (being that my cousin was a Boxer my NWC loyalties goes towards them).  Give my Boxers another year or two.

Willamette has had a rough start, but Stuvland is back, maybe they can make a late charge toward the playoff.

Safe to say two of the spots will be taken by Whitworth and UPS, with LC, Pacific, Fox, and maybe even Willamette in the hunt for the third.

Whitworth fans, what do you think of your boys' trip coming up this weekend, at Pacific and at LC?  Not an easy one, I think both are undefeated at home in conference, and Whitworth is undefeated on the road in conference, something has to give.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 24, 2007, 08:09:30 pm
Pinecone & Buc"k"s

Looks like I was absent on the wrong day...I am sorry that I was not here to help out when Pat came guns a blazin'.  I will try not to let it happen again.  I did however try and give a little help over on the SCIAC board in an attempt to shed some light on reality....not sure if it worked.

Anyhow...

So Gilbert - what do you think Whitworth's chances are of winning at both Pacific and L&C this weekend?  Seems like this is the key weekend of the second half for the Pirates (leaving out for one second the Pirate-Loggers rematch).

Your Boxers have shown the typical up-and-down syndrome of youth.  What's your take on how they'll respond to a pair of tough losses this past weekend?  They have certainly played well at home.

I think you said a lot in the statement "typical up and down syndrome of youth." With Pac you get games like a 5 point road loss to WW, win against UPS, followed by a win against LC....and then you get losses on the road to PLU and Linfield.  I think not only youth of the players, but also youth of the program have to be taken into account.  This is Lowery's second trip through the NWC with his first recruiting class.  The program may still be finding an identity and determining its way to try and win in the NWC. It reminds me a lot of the '02-03 UPS team that went 12-13 before UPS has gone on to there three year dominance (I am not sure if Pac is as talented, though).  The team can win at home, and can get up for the big games (i.e. UPS, WW).  That is easy.  However, the team has failed to show the qualities that tend to separate the NWC champs from the rest of the pack:  The ability to find ways to win on the road.  But Pac is at home, they have lost the last two, it is WW, and this is a HUGE game so......

As for WW, they have a huge weekend.  I think this weekend may determine whether or not they are really the favorite in the NWC.  They can pick up a win where UPS failed to, and show that they can show that ability to win on the road like I talked about.

I think they will definitely get one, but two?  I say the chances are 50/50.

I think Gil is right, if we do end up with two NWC teams and one SCIAC team in the tourney the two NWC teams will probably be made to play each other in the first round...then the winner plays, and probably punishes, the SCIAC team(again).    I can't claim I know all the details but that seems like the most likely outcome.   Pat can you fill in some of the blanks for us JV boys...pretty please ;D? 

Logs-

Look like Pat big timed you and did not even answer your "second string" question.  Nice attempt at the olive branch though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 24, 2007, 10:51:10 pm
Gil, I am anxious about this weekend for the Bucs.  To have a real chance at finishing at the top of the league, they do need both.  Missing James Jones could be big this weekend.  Not just for his points, but I am sure the team will miss having that extra senior ball handler on the floor in a couple hostile gyms.

The one thing that could bode well is that Whitworth has won in both gyms the last two-three years, so there isn't much of an intimidation factor coming in.

I fully expect the "good" Boxers to show up for the game on Friday.  I'll be listening to Bob C. call the game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 25, 2007, 01:04:49 am
Gil

Great analogy of the Boxers, it may be a total youth of the program thing going on right now.  But I like the comparison to that 02-03 UPS team as well, I remember seeing them when Bridgeland first took over.  Lowery reminds me a bit of Bridgeland, young, driven, a good recruiter, intense, his guys play hard for him (at least at home right now from what I'm hearing, I haven't seen them on the road yet).

Pinecone, I agree, I think it's 50/50 Whitworth gets both.  I have to try and make it out to the Grove Friday, should be a good one.

Did Van Domelen play in the first Pac-WW game?














Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 25, 2007, 11:59:27 am
NWCer-
As for your question about mid-season awards...

I've been suprised/impressed by several of the young Loggers this year, but I don't want to be too biased so I'll stick to the rest of the league. 

From the players I've seen play so far I think Tillery from LC and Nugent from WU have been the best.  Tillery is awesome in the open court and super quick at getting to the rim, Nugent is just an all around very solid player especially for a Freshman.  My guess is he will be in the running for POY in years to come. 

From reading game summaries and looking at statistics I would say Symes(sp?) from WW and Born from WTM are both looking like first team all NWC type of players.  Symes has really stepped it up in scoring with JJones out for WW and Born averages 20/11, you can't really argue with those numbers. 

Gil- 
Ya I really did get big timed by the P-man, I think all he did was lower my karma even more, Oh well :-\.  Nice commentary on the Boxers season so far this year, you really seem to know your stuff.   With the way you analyze, You remind me of a coach I once knew!!! ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 26, 2007, 03:42:30 pm
Logs-

I appreciate the love on the Boxers comments...I am not too sure of what to make out of the analogy to the "coach you once knew," followed by the "winky guy."  It seems like we have the same view on most major issues and tend to get along well on the board, therefore I think you mean this as a compliment.  In attempts at deciphering the meaning of the "winky guy" in the quote, I could only come up with one explanation.  To put it in your terms, as you framed it to Sager in his descriptions of Williams, you possibly have a "man crush" on one of the UPS coaches you once knew....Bridegland perhaps?  He has brought you success recently so I figured by comparing me to him, and the "man crush" you have on him, would be a compliment to me.  So thanks....sort of.

Anyways back to business.

NWCer welcome.

As for midseason awards, only two.

Biggest Surprise: Robert Krauel, UPS
He is an under sized post that is 4th in the league in scoring at 17 a game, second on UPS in scoring, leads the league in field goal percentage, and a monster on the boards.  All this after coming off a 4 point, 11 minutes per game Freshmen campaign.  I think a lot of credit needs to go to Krauel, and some to Lunt as it looks like UPS has found a NWC first teamer where no one expected.

Least Surprise: Kyle Born, Whitman
22 and 11.  Enough said. He has been putting up these type of numbers consistenly for a while now, it is just too bad that he and Faidely could not get it going in the W column.  Despite this I do not think you can ignore the argument for possible POTY.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 26, 2007, 04:33:04 pm
Gil-

 I think you may be reading into the winking guy a little too much.  I was simply trying to say that your analysis of Pacific reminds me of a coach's.  You are very detailed and seem to know a lot about Pacific.  You portray some of the same qualities that I've seen coaches that's all ;)(don't mind that little guy).  Although I am a UPS hoops fan, I can't claim to have ever known Brigelend(sp?) personally, but you are right, he did bring the team great success!  You seem to hold him in high regard however, so If you would like to believe I have a "man crush" on him and you think he's a great guy, then I guess I'm ok with that.  Kinda creepy, but hey, whatever floats your boat ???

Also, I think you are correct in naming Robert Kraul as one of the best in the league.  I didn't want to portray a UPS bias in my mid season picks, but he and Jason Foster both deserve a lot of credit for how well they are playing this season and keeping the Loggers in the Conference title race. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 26, 2007, 05:25:59 pm
Logs-

Alright Logs, thanks for the explanation.  It makes me a little more comfortable being on this board.  You don't take the  :-* I put up a few posts ago seriously, and I will not read into the ;). Deal.  For the record, I was never too much of a Bridgeland fan per se.  I liked how hard his teams played, but thought he was a little much on the sideline.  I heard he even got thrown out of an aumni game.  True?

Anyway, it seems like we both agree Born is having a POTY like run...and this is for the rest of the board as well...who else would you throw in the mix mid way through.  What about Foster, Logs?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 26, 2007, 05:59:59 pm
Gil- 

Like I said before, I don't want to be putting too much of my bias towards the Logger players into the mix when discussing POTY/ All conference/ etc. but since you asked I will discuss them a little. 

In my mind Foster, Krauel, Delong, and potentially Williams and Marsh could each make an argument for being on the All NWC list at the end of the year.  I realize it isn't likely or fair to have 5 UPS players as all conference, but I think they are all on that level as players.  If UPS wins the conference, either Foster(18 and 7) or Krauel(17 and 6) should be POY, with the edge to Krauel becuase he is more consistent in crunch time.  They both put up great numbers, especially when taking into account the fact that they each only play between 20-25 minutes a game and often times play side by side(which eats away at each others stats).  The great thing is they both are only Sophmores, two more years of those guys in the league should be scary for everyone else in the NWC.   I would even venture to say they might overshadow Chase Curtiss as UPS's best player from the past few years by the time they are seniors. 

So without getting too carried away, that's my analysis on the Logger players. 

I wish I could say I have seen more teams in person so that i could comment on other players, but I have only seen about half the league so far this year.  Does anyone else have some mid season player analysis/awards?  It's always interesting to hear everyones perspective. 



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on January 27, 2007, 01:53:47 pm
Interesting night in the NWC,

Linfield beats PLU
Whitworth continues to roll
and............
the game of the week, The bearcats beat the Loggers 119-108.  :o
What a shoot out, anyone at the game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 27, 2007, 11:02:22 pm
Whitworth drops one tonight at L&C, 66-60.

I must say that, except for the seriously goofy commercials for Dollar Resale and Columbia Hearing Centers, I really enjoy listening to Whitworth broadcasts on the web.  Bob Castle does an excellent job with his play-by-play.  I've listened to a lot of broadcasts all over the country, and I'd say that the KSBN broadcasts are very near the top in terms of quality.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 28, 2007, 12:39:19 am
Now I'm listening to the KFOX broadcast of UPS at George Fox (UPS leading by 1 with 6:44 left in the second half), and while this broadcast isn't nearly as professional as KSBN, it's a heck of a lot more fun.  This play-by-play man (a GFU student?) has a big future in Latin American soccer announcing if he wants to go that way.  He's really into the game, and is translating the excitement very well.  I can't imagine how he's managed not to lose his voice yet.  It's great fun listening to this game.   :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 12:51:48 am
GFU by 5 with a minuteand a half left.

This may blow my Top 25!  I thought that I had some stability in the NWC, until this week!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 12:52:28 am
GFU by 5 with a minute and a half left.

This may blow my Top 25!  I thought that I had some stability in the NWC, until this week!

GFU 68-63; 1:30 left.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 12:56:51 am
GFU was down by 17 at one point in the game.

UPS -- GFU rebs.
GFU -- Robert Krauel (UPS) gets a technical.  Bruins make both Ft's. Up by 7,70-63.
UPS -- Time out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 01:01:45 am
GFU --  71-63 0:40 left.
Now 75-61 GFU.

Final GFU 75 UPS 63.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 28, 2007, 01:07:46 am
Whitworth's loss left the door open for the Loggers to regain the NWC lead, and UPS had a 17-point lead in the first half, but they couldn't sustain it.  This race is getting real interesting as Whitworth (8-2) now leads both UPS (7-3) and L&C (7-3) by 1 game and GFU (6-4) by 2 games.  Do I understand correctly that just the top 3 teams qualify for the conference tournament?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 01:16:06 am
Whitworth's loss left the door open for the Loggers to regain the NWC lead, and UPS had a 17-point lead in the first half, but they couldn't sustain it.  This race is getting real interesting as Whitworth (8-2) now leads both UPS (7-3) and L&C (7-3) by 1 game and GFU (6-4) by 2 games.  Do I understand correctly that just the top 3 teams qualify for the conference tournament?

Yes, a 3-team tourney (http://www.nwcsports.com/information/governance/bkbprocedures8-05.pdf).  #3 at #2 on Thursday, then winner to #1.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 28, 2007, 05:03:04 am
UPS faithful:  Why no Foster tonight?  If he's gone for any extended period of time that could be a HUGE blow for the Loggers.

Willamette quietly is starting to get it together, looks like they have a big weekend visiting my Boxers and a red hot LC team, we'll see if their resurgence is for real.

The race is getting good, for the title and the conference tourney.

Got to get out and see more of these games in person the final few weeks.  Any eye witness accounts from any of this weekend's games?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on January 28, 2007, 11:35:47 am
Big weekend for the traveling leaders and both take shots but UPS loses both!!  Wow.  I have seen every team play this year except Whitman and LC is the quickest.  Tillery appears to be my front runner for POTY.  As a Pirate fan I was hoping to say B Williams would be the man at this time of the year but its just not happening.  Losing Jones during crunch time really has hurt BW's options, but I do think they have found their new identity at WW and its inside.  Symes and Hasenfus are quite good in the post, but got limited by LC's active defense and shot way below their averages.  Hats off to LC. Nice win.

I think WW will take the GF gift and slide back to Spokane with the precarious 1 game lead and wonder how to avoid playing at LC for the Conf. Tourney Champ. game.  UPS must be in self check mode. LC still has UPS at home.  WW still goes to UPS.  WU wants respect! 

February is GO time!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on January 28, 2007, 05:02:22 pm
David Collinge:

I agree with you about the Whitworth broadcasts on KSBN. Bob Castle does a great job. However, I must respectfully disagree about the commercials, especially Columbia Hearing Centers, which is a classic. I'd love to have a wav or mp3 of that one so I could have it play when I boot up my computer. I just wish I lived near Spokane so I could get my car checked over at Golden Rule Brake Service.

OxyBob
Some people only watch the Super Bowl to see the commercials.  I will be tuning into the next broadcast to see what the fuss is all about.  What a way to increase the Nielsen Ratings. ::)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on January 28, 2007, 06:11:28 pm
I just got my car checked over at golden rule...seriously.  The Pirates were held to just 36.4% shooting in the second half, and 44.4% for the game.  I wasn't at the game (listened to most of it) so I couldn't tell if Whitworth was just off or if LC was playing good defense, forcing Whitworth to take bad shots.  Bryan Williams got in foul trouble early...very early, which will be trouble for the Pirates no matter who they're playing.  The good thing is UPS blew their chance to take the lead in the conference and Whitworth finally gets a weekend home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 28, 2007, 09:15:27 pm
David Collinge:

I agree with you about the Whitworth broadcasts on KSBN. Bob Castle does a great job. However, I must respectfully disagree about the commercials, especially Columbia Hearing Centers, which is a classic. I'd love to have a wav or mp3 of that one so I could have it play when I boot up my computer. I just wish I lived near Spokane so I could get my car checked over at Golden Rule Brake Service.

OxyBob

I'm thinking about buying a used car from Dollar Resale, whose commercials are so hokey that I wouldn't be surprised if their telephone number were BR-549, and then taking it over to Golden Rule to be serviced.  But Columbia Hearing Centers....oh my.  :o  Just thinking about that jingle makes my ears bleed.   :P :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 29, 2007, 02:18:43 pm
The Loggers had a real let down of a weekend.  Dropping two games in a row is not gonna make things any easier for them to start the second half of league play :-\, especially when they lost to very beatable opponents.  Give credit to WU and GF for coming ready to play.  From the scores it looks like the UPS defense was horrible against Willamette and the offense was horrible against GF.  I didn't see either so I can't be sure.   Bcats, any thoughts from the WU game?

It's no time to push the panic button but with games still to play at LC and against WW the logs better step it up and start putting together some wins.  Tied for second is not a bad spot to be, however there's a tough road ahead to getting a tournament birth. 

Does anyone know why Foster didn't play against GF, I haven't seen any reason yet?  Not an excuse, but it seems like the outcome would have been much different had their leading scorer played. 

BTW, L and C is looking REALLY TOUGH, I would say its past time they get thrown into the league champ conversation.  They seem to be getting better as the year goes on, I think they have a great shot at making some noise towards the end of the year...they are bad news for UPS/WW!!! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on January 29, 2007, 02:53:09 pm
Yes the losses this weekend were suprising, but all it really did was put a real damper on the bid for multiple NWC bids into the tourney.

UPS still controls their own destiny towards the first seed, except now there is a "must win" situation for them down at LC.

Whitworth is still in the driver's seat for the first seed, but barring another even more catastrophic UPS meltdown between now and Feb. 9, they still have to go into UPS and beat them to get the top spot.

LC is now more clearly in the picture for an NWC playoff spot, but they still need help if they want that first seed.

Realistically, not too much has changed, but it sure has made things more interesting!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 29, 2007, 03:01:27 pm
Good call Gil.

I agree that LC will need some help to get the number 1 seed, but they are on a serious roll right now.  I think they have a great chance at being the most dangerous team in the league at the end of the year, especailly if UPS doesn't pick it up pretty soon. 

And you're right, the NWC really shot itself in the foot in terms of trying to get two bids for the tourney.  Looks like the conference playoff champ will be the only one going. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on January 29, 2007, 03:05:43 pm
WU looked very good against both UPS and PLU this weekend...maybe its a bit too late, but their ability to play at different tempos and with different lineups has been a big plus factor in their recent 3-game winning streak...

Now, with LC and GF's upsets, they are still two games out of the playoffs, but with games at Pacific and at LC this weekend, they can get themselves firmly back in the race...

With WU's erickson, Whitworth's Jones, GF's Heu-Weller, and now Foster, the NWC is missing some primetime players from some teams...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on January 29, 2007, 03:58:12 pm
I have to concur with everyone else about the weekend - very interesting results.  A couple of observations -

Someone might argue that the UPS "slump" actually goes back four games, rather than just the last two.  Logs, you mentioned you didn't think the team looked sharp in either of the wins at home the previous weekend.  The challenge ahead for the Loggers is they still have to play both Whitworth and L&C within the last six games.

Whitworth's lack of outside shooting really hurt on Saturday.  With B. Williams getting in early foul trouble, the only real outside threat was Young, and you can always cover one outside guy.  They need Jones back.  If he is able to get back in the lineup by the Tacoma weekend, I think the Pirates will win out.

I think L&C is a year away from being the real favorite.  They are a soph/junior dominated team and whatever happens this year will just be a stepping stone for next year.  Glad to see Gaillard still has the fire.

Congrats to Willamette on getting things going.  I am sure the Bearcats felt like they "owed" one to UPS after letting the Tacoma match up get away late in regulation.  They will be a factor down the stretch, but two games will be tough to make up for third place. 

Any team at .500 or better in the league still has a shot, however, so things are going to be really fun down the stretch.  Only Linfield and Whitman figure to just play out the string at this point (but credit Linfield - which looks like its still trying to get better).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on January 29, 2007, 04:04:15 pm
The challenge ahead for the Loggers is they still have to play both Whitworth and L&C within the last six games.


Not to mention an up-and-coming Pacific squad who handed UPS and L&C early conference losses this year...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: wildcat11 on January 29, 2007, 04:23:28 pm
The challenge ahead for the Loggers is they still have to play both Whitworth and L&C within the last six games.


Not to mention an up-and-coming Pacific squad who handed UPS and L&C early conference losses this year...

Speaking of Pacific...what is up with their bleachers that look like they are about 15 feet too short?  It just looks like a weird empty gap between the sideline and seats.  Are they planning on trenching out a moat?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on January 29, 2007, 11:22:35 pm
just a thought on two teams from the nwc making the tourney...  I think there is still a fairly decent chance of that: 
If WW rolls off their last 6, then loses in the nwc championship game they will be sitting at 23-3.
I don't think that you can keep that team out of the tournament.

Also if WW wins 5 of their last 6 in league and ups wins 7 of 7 then WW wins the 2nd third place game to play ups for the championship, I think both teams get in regardless of the winner.  UPS would be at 21-4 before the championship game and WW would be at 23-3 before the game.  Definately bubble for UPS especially, but I think they would have a shot.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 30, 2007, 04:23:38 am
just a thought on two teams from the nwc making the tourney...  I think there is still a fairly decent chance of that: 
If WW rolls off their last 6, then loses in the nwc championship game they will be sitting at 23-3.
I don't think that you can keep that team out of the tournament.

Also if WW wins 5 of their last 6 in league and ups wins 7 of 7 then WW wins the 2nd third place game to play ups for the championship, I think both teams get in regardless of the winner.  UPS would be at 21-4 before the championship game and WW would be at 23-3 before the game.  Definately bubble for UPS especially, but I think they would have a shot.

Overall records are meaningless as far as the D3 tourney selection committee is concerned, bucs77. There are five primary criteria that the committee considers when doling out the Pool C berths on Selection Sunday:

* regional winning percentage
* Quality of Wins Index
* W-L record vs. regionally ranked teams
* head-to-head record vs. other regionally ranked teams
* record vs. common opponents with other regionally ranked teams

I'm not going to calculate the QOWIs for Whitworth, Puget Sound, and Lewis & Clark, although you can do that yourselves if you like. The only one of the five primary criteria that can be readily distinguished is regional winning percentage. Whitworth's regional record is 14-2, which makes the Pirates' regional winning percentage .875. Puget Sound is currently 11-3 in regional play, which puts the Loggers at a .786 winning clip. L&C is 8-4, so the Pioneers stand at .667.

Last season, the lowest regional winning percentage among Pool C teams belonged to Illinois Wesleyan, which was .714 in regional play. Consider that your baseline in terms of where your respective teams need to be in order to get considered for an at-large berth should they fail to win the NWC tourney and get the league's Pool A bid. There are four other criteria to be considered, of course, but regional winning percentage is certainly as important, if not more important, than those other four.

In other words, right now both Whitworth and Puget Sound appear to be in good shape for NCAA tourney berths should either team fail to win the NWC's automatic bid. That's contingent, of course, upon maintaining their respective winning paces over the last six or seven games of the regular season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on January 31, 2007, 12:32:28 am
Pac. Lutheran led UPS by 15 with 6:42 left, but over the next 4:30 the Loggers have forced six turnovers and have gone on a 15-1 run.  They now trail by just 1 with 2:19 left.

UPDATE:  0:54 left, PLU calls timeout clinging to a one point lead, 86-85.
UPDATE:  Brooks misses a jumper, UPS rebounds, DeLong scores to put the Loggers up for the first time in the 2nd half, 0:18 left.
UPDATE: McDaniels misses, Dressler rebounds but has it stolen by UPS' Williams, who gets a timeout (presumably to avoid a tieup or out of bounds call) with 0:02 left and UPS up one.
UPDATE: Brooks fouls on the imbounds play, DeLong converts the free throws, and UPS salvages their season with a great comeback, 89-86.  UPS finishes the game on a 23-5 run.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 31, 2007, 12:22:58 pm
WOW, the Loggers are really living life on the edge right now.  I'm certainly happy for the bounce back win last night, but it shouldn't take last minute heroics to win...AT HOME...TO PLU(4-7 in conference)!!!  Being down by 15 in the second half and needing a 23-5 run in the last six minutes is not a good thing.  On the bright side, It's great that they had it in them to make a succesful comeback, but I can guarantee nobody on the team was real happy about that performance.

Right now the Loggers are barely keeping their heads above water in the race for another NWC championship, they really need to step it up if they expect to have a shot at the tourney.   From the numbers, it looks like offensive production is not a problem, however the D needs to pick it up in a big way.

It looks like Krauel, Marsh, and Foster(good to see he's back!) all had nice games against PLU.  They still have a great record for being such a young team and they have plenty of talent to make some noise late in the season.  I'm confident that they will still be able to pull off a NWC title.  To start with, they have a great oppurtunity to avenge a loss this weekend.  Pacific is coming to town, I'm sure the Logs will be ready to go.  Should be a great game and I'm looking forward to watching!!!   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 31, 2007, 01:59:15 pm
UPSoundlogs, gutsy for your boys to find a way to pull it out, and you're right, they are living on the edge, and they can't be happy.  A win is a win - and it's important they got it, but looking at their last 5 games, squeakers at home against LC and Linfield, 2 road losses, and another squeaker at home against PLU, it's safe to say they are not "playing well". 

Is something goin' on within the squad? 

Has there been any word on Lunt and his "interim" status? 

Like it was posted earlier, there's no need for them to push the panic button, but the concerned buttom should be mashed on right about now.

Never thought I'd be saying this in Lowery's second year, but my Boxers have a shot at the season sweep this weekend.  Won't be able to make it up Sounds, but give us a good eyewitness report.  I will be at the Pacific/Willamette game, both sitting at 5-5 the loser can kiss any run at the tourney away, the winner still has an outside shot.  Should be an entertaining 3 weekends!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 31, 2007, 03:23:51 pm
NWCer-  I'll try to give a decent eyewitness report for you. 8)

As for Lunt's interim positive...

In my opinion they should do everything they can to keep him around.  He has had some really big shoes to fill with this years UPS squad.  Over the last few years the Loggers have pretty much dominated the NWC as well as made it deep into the tourney, including the elite 8 last year.  In losing a head coach AND graduating 4 key seniors last year, Lunt has been stuck with a "rebuilding" year at UPS.  So far he has managed a great record and is seated at 2nd in the conference with a team that doesn't have a senior and starts mostly sophmores.  By UPS standards, I would consider it a down year, but under the circumstances they have had great success and should have a very succesful future with the players they have.  Lunt has had great experience with past UPS squads, knows his players well, and knows what it takes to win not only a NWC championship, but take a shot at the National championship as well.  I think he has a bright future as the head coach for the Loggers. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 31, 2007, 03:38:21 pm
Good points Logs,

Success does breed crazy expectations, although I wouldn't call UPS's season a "rebuilding" year, they were still picked to finish 1st, and they may start mostly sophomores, but they're VERY GOOD ONES.  Whoever gets that job should be in a good position, would any other NWC people agree that the infrastructure that is at UPS makes that the "best job" in the conference?  (along with Whitworth, maybe Linfield and Willamette, I don't know, any thoughts?)

Let me know what you think of my Boxers Logs.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on January 31, 2007, 04:00:01 pm
NWCer

I just meant "rebuilding" as compared to the last few years.  UPS had only lost 4 NWC games in the last 3 years, and always had a solid senior class to rely on.  This year they have already lost three and their main players are very young.  I agree with you that it isn't a true rebuilding year though...I was just trying to make a point. 

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on January 31, 2007, 04:30:35 pm
I knew you were just making a point Logs, just messin' with you ;)

Just funny to see the "rebuilding" word next to a team that's been ranked all year.  They're good, but as you mentioned, not the "UPS good" of the last 3 seasons, although they're still in good shape to get another title.

A different subject, didn't Linfield used to be a year in and year out solid team.  What has happened to their program ???  Not bustin' chops, just an honest question.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pennstlbu on January 31, 2007, 06:20:05 pm
I just realized this, but UPS now owns a 33 game conference winning streak at home. Their last loss at home against a NWC foe was during the 2002-03 season against Lewis & Clark. That's a pretty impressive streak. Hopefully, I didn't jinx the team though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on January 31, 2007, 09:56:56 pm
NWCer, I have an opinion cloaked in this story I posted on page 32 of this branch

Quote
This is not a comfortable true story but it helps diagnose symptoms of why LINFIELD has become only a football/baseball school.

   One rainy Christmas vacation 7-8 years ago I wandered on down to Long Beach City College to see a high school basketball tournament. It was absolutely great. In the next couple of months I saw Jared and Jason Collins, Paul Pierce, Baron Davis, Tremaine Fowlkes, Tyson Chandler, Tayshawn Prince, Jason Kapono, among others, play high school basketball. Some I got to watch for 4 years.
   The number one rated L.A. City team that season was Fremont.  I happened to see them play and found out a kid I knew when he was 10 was on the team. I discovered that he had been an All-League defensive back that football season and that he had been one of the fastest guys in the City in the 200m the previous couple of years. He was not a starter on the b-ball team that lost the City Championship game to Crenshaw (again) but he did have a career game in the City Finals.
His physical stature was about 5’9”, 165 lbs. I remember him being a good student and I saw “LINFIELD” written all over him. I checked around about the new NCAA provisos and I sent an LA City championship game tape to the coach.  No response.
   Six months later at a Homecoming game I sought out the basketball coach, introduced myself and asked if he received my tape.
AND I QUOTE  “We thought he was too good for us.”!!!!!!!!
With my jaw still drooping on my toes I chance to run into a Hall of Fame football coach from LINFIELD who shook his head and told me I should know his response would have been much different.
   

It's a fact LINFIELD used to be a basketball school with a few NAIA baseball titles thrown in.............along with THE STREAK.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 02, 2007, 12:37:15 pm
Thanks D.O.C., good story.

Predictions tonight?

Lewis and Clark should be OK at PLU and Fox Should be OK at Whitman, but won't be shocked if the games go the other way.  I don't think Linfield has a chance in Spokane.  Most even game I would say is Willamette at Pacific.  I looked at Willamette's stats and they are just as bad on the road as Pacific is good at home, good sign for my Boxers.

Bearcats, will you be in attendance tonight?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 02, 2007, 01:14:06 pm
Wow D.O.C.!!! 
Good stroy...If Linfield really does recruit like that for their hoops team it not only hurts them, but the rest of the NWC too.  The more talent you can bring into the league the better and with Linfield's facilities and success in athletics they should be able to get some of the best players in the NWC.  Do you know if they have changed coaches since your story took place?  Because even though they don't have much talent right now, a few years ago (even as recent as the 03-04 season I think) they have had some fairly high profile transfers.  I think they even had one transfer from Oregon State(I'm not 100% positive on that though). 

NWCer-
Your Friday game predictions are right on in my opinion, Except I think Whitman has a really good shot at beating GF.  Could be a heat check for WU at Pac tonight, they have been playing well as of late.  However, they have been winning at home. We'll see if they have what it takes to win on the road at one of the tougher gyms to play in. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 02, 2007, 11:58:42 pm
Start of 2nd half with Ww up by 7.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 03, 2007, 12:40:35 am
The best team in the NWC 71, the run-of-the-mill "Remember when we had fun?" DIII team 58.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 03, 2007, 02:36:33 am
Pacific looked good tonight against Willamette, especially in the first half, their posts are quite a handful, and Harison Davis is pretty talented.  I saw a UPS coach in the stands scouting, I'm sure they'll be ready tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 03, 2007, 09:29:08 am
Yea, UPS better be ready for Pacific tonight.  I doubt another PLU effort will keep that impressive streak going.

But the good news was seeing James Jones back on the court for WW!!  His return will clearly help the Pirates chances of winning out the season.  Lot of smiles in Spokane last night as he led his team.

LC is having the same run WW had the end of last year.  They are now a strong 2nd spot in my book after UPS's miracle win, terrible effort Tuesday.

Logs imagine this tourney scenario, Thu at LC then Sat at WW.  Gonna be rough.  The reign is over.

Did I mention James Jones was back?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2007, 11:19:19 pm
WW 13 GFU 2 early and now Whitworth 16-13.  13:24 left.  Good comeback by the Bruins.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 04, 2007, 01:51:40 am
Got the great Nike Extravaganza H.S. tournament here in the County.
Lake Oswego knocked off Mater Dei on their home floor tonight.

Hmmm....should I watch Oak Hill or Dominguez play tomorrow or the Super Bowl?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on February 04, 2007, 06:32:24 am
D.O.C.


Might I give some help, It's called TVO!
night all...................Colts by 9.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 05, 2007, 10:34:53 am
The Loggers played a great first half on Saturday night, probably the best I've seen them play so far this year.  The press looked really good and they had a ton of energy, they got out to a nice lead and then... half time happened.  The second half was not pretty...lots of fouls, lots of bad shots and while it never looked like Pacific would actually win the game, they made a pretty good second half run. 

What I thought was interesting was that Pacific decided the best way to beat the press was to throw touch down passes over it!  It didn't seem like a tough problem for UPS to solve(just put a taller guy in the back of the press)but they didn't for some reason and the long bomb gave them problems all game, I bet Pacific got an extra 12 points off of it. 

My biggest thought of the game is that UPS doesn't have the same killer instinct that they have had in the past, they get big leads and then start playing to the level of their competition.  If they would simply continue to play at the same high level all game long no one in the NWC would stand a chance.  Hopefully they figure it out pretty soon, if they do they have the talent to run the table easily...JJones or no JJones. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gilbert McFinnegan on February 05, 2007, 01:04:01 pm
I have been out of a comission for a little bit, but it looks like the NWC has kept pace for the most exciting last two weeks of NWC basketball in years.  The first seed is on the line in Tacoma on Friday night, and with Jones back (the proclaimed Logger Killer, I guess we should call him "Falling Timber" from now on) it sounds like both the UPS and WW squads will be in full force.  I do not care how UPS or WW has been playing of late, I doubt that either team will fail to bring everything they have for this one.

Back on October 15 we probably all could point to February 9 on our calendars and knew that first place would be on the line that day, but I doubt anyone would have predicted that it would possibly be on the line again Feb. 16 down at LC.....that is if UPS is able to hold through the weekend.  Looks like Pio fans have more than one team to route for this weekend.

LC is having the same run WW had the end of last year.  They are now a strong 2nd spot in my book after UPS's miracle win, terrible effort Tuesday.

Logs imagine this tourney scenario, Thu at LC then Sat at WW.  Gonna be rough.  The reign is over.

Did I mention James Jones was back?

NWHoops-

Pretty bold prediction.  I am not sure if I could write off the three time defending champs that easily.  Logs, any thought on this one?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 05, 2007, 01:47:31 pm
As an outsider who has taken an active interest in the NWC this season, can someone please instruct me as to whether there are any historic, traditional rivalries within the conference, and if so what they are?  I realize that Whitworth and UPS have a bit of a rivalry based on recent success at the top of the standings, but is there anything about these two that goes back in time?  Are there perhaps traditional geographic rivalries, such as UPS/PLU or Linfield/L&C?   Thanks.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 05, 2007, 04:00:37 pm
DC-

Since they are within 20 minutes of each other in Tacoma, PLU and UPS have had a pretty heated rivalry in all sports for many years.  When every sport is taken into account, the two schools are both very succussful/ evenly matched and form a great cross town rivalry.  But you are correct in that the UPS and WW mens basketball teams have had a big time rivalry recently.  Bcats, Gil, and Pinecone can fill you in on some of the other "traditional" rivalries from around the NWC. 

Gil-

You are right it is a bold predicition from NWHoops, but for this year I would say he is somewhat correct. The "Reign" of UPS basketball isn't quite as dominant as it has been.  Although I believe the Loggers still have a great shot at making the NCAA tourney, they don't strike fear into the NWC quite like the last few teams have.  However, the "Reign" will start up again next year so I'm not too worried about it.  UPS is a sophmore dominated squad, WW is a senior dominated squad...you can do the math.  WW seniors may be able to hang with UPS sophmores this year, but next year and the next several years will be a different story.  With Foster,Krauel,Delong,Williams,and Marsh(to name a few) all returning for UPS and BWilliams, JJones, KHes, etc. graduating for WW I feel sorry for the rest of the league.  So enjoy this year while you can, UPS still has a great shot at the NWC crown and it's a "down year" for them ;D. 
Title: Rivalries
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 05, 2007, 04:52:25 pm
As far as rivalries go for the WU:

1. Whitworth: but, having not beat them in awhile, that is not a true "rivalry" right now
2. Linfield: Used to be HUGE, but the Wildcats have been down for awhile now
3. LC: Willamette (until being swept this year) had dominated the previous 4 years


On a sidenote, the Bearcats got swept and are finished...was at the LC game...disappointing to see....but the Pios are very good....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 05, 2007, 05:01:44 pm
I have to agree with Bearcats - the Whitworth-Willamette rivalry has been a great one to watch since the early 90's.  It seems like either Whitworth or Willamette won the NCIC title for most of the 90s (with a couple L&C and one Pacific thrown in).  I remember some great battles between Friedrichs' Pirate teams and James' Bearcats. 

It seemed the rivalry was rekindled in Hayford's first year at Whitworth when Willamette won both regular season meetings, but then Whitworth won the playoff game in Salem.  The Pirates have won the last few...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 05, 2007, 05:35:51 pm
BCats- 

I have to agree with you about the Pios...very good and very dangerous!  It's too bad about WU this year, the NWC isn't quite the same without them in the hunt for the championship.  Do have any thoughts on how they will shape up for next year, or are they gonna have a few troubled years in a row ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 05, 2007, 05:46:00 pm
Thanks all...

Willamette/Whitworth is not a rivalry I'd have guessed, since they're so far apart.  Is it entirely based on success, as pineconefan seems to suggest, or is there something else fueling it?  Not that there's anything wrong with a success-based rivalry; I'm a graduate of Wooster, and although there isn't really anything "natural" about our rivalry with Wittenberg, it's still pretty intense. 

With both Whitworth and Whitman so isolated geographically, I'd guess they have no "natural" rivals, at least none in the conference.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 05, 2007, 06:21:35 pm
David -

The Whitworth - Willamette rivalry is based on the teams' success, plus a series of tightly contested contests.  In addition, over the course of the last 15 or so years, I think that those two schools have had the consistently best followings of fans.

Certainly UPS is on a fan upswing with the late success, and Linfield had a serious home court advantage for a couple of years.  But over the long haul, Whitworth and Willamette have had the best (IMO).
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 05, 2007, 10:35:10 pm
Any thoughts on the tuesday game this week?
   A tough pacific team who would like nothing more than to play the role of spoiler vs. an LC team that is playing very well as of late.
My prediction is 77-70 LC.

Also fellow NWCers......there has been some talk already on other boards about the SCIAC getting two teams in over the NWC.  Doesn't make much sense to me seeing that the NWC is 8-4 against the SCIAC this year and with WW, willamette and Pacific easily handing CAL LU and Redlands barely beating our bottom dwelling Whitman
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 05, 2007, 10:36:30 pm
I just read my post and I shouldn't have said over the NWC as if one of the two leagues has to get two teams in.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 06, 2007, 11:55:42 am

Redlands barely beating our bottom dwelling Whitman

Whitworth  62
Whitman     59

I see your point!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 06, 2007, 12:19:15 pm
JR- 

Thanks for stopping by, but I think this is more the picture Bucs was referring to.  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong Bucs.

NWC Standings

Whitworth         10 2
 Puget Sound      9 3
 Lewis & Clark     9 3
 George Fox        6 6
 Pacific (Ore.)      6 6
 Willamette         5 7
 Pacific Lutheran 4 8
Whitman       3 9  
Linfield               2 10
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 06, 2007, 12:22:46 pm
JR- 

Thanks for stopping by, but I think this is more the picture Bucs was referring to.  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong Bucs.

NWC Standings

Whitworth         10 2
 Puget Sound      9 3
 Lewis & Clark     9 3
 George Fox        6 6
 Pacific (Ore.)      6 6
 Willamette         5 7
 Pacific Lutheran 4 8
Whitman       3 9  
Linfield               2 10


Maybe I'm missing the point, but Bucs seemed to imply that a SCIAC second place team barely beating a NWC 'bottom dweller' means that the NWC is head and shoulders above the SCIAC...therefore, I merely illustrated that even your first place team barely beat your 'bottom dweller'...that's all.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 06, 2007, 01:40:34 pm
Logs was correct. And JR I noticed you avoided the fact that our 6-6, and 5-7 teams beat your first place cal lu. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: TeeDub on February 06, 2007, 01:53:35 pm
Logs was correct. And JR I noticed you avoided the fact that our 6-6, and 5-7 teams beat your first place cal lu. 

First, I didn't start these comments, you did...and I didn't avoid the above, I chose to address the point you offered regarding Whitman...I could have easily mentioned Cal Lu's victory over L&C, but I didn't because you only referenced Whitman.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 06, 2007, 02:13:01 pm
Bucs,

I think it's possible that the SCIAC posters are in a some denial of how weak their conference truly is.  I'll give them Occidental, but after that there is a dramatic fall off.  Some of their posters are asking why Redlands and Cal lu are not recieving votes/being ranked :D...comon now ???  

The NWC is certainly not a national power conference by any means, but at least we can face the facts and not beg for LC/Pac to gain national attention simply for beating UPS/WW.  One win over a good team doesn't mean anything...even LC has taken some bad losses to even out their solid wins this season.  Gotta keep it in perspective ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 06, 2007, 02:59:46 pm
couldn't have said it better myself logs.
Back to our own conference...... which is ranked 6th by the massey rankings with the sciac at 21st.

Who do you like in the PAC LC game tonight.  Obviously I'll be rooting for a Pac win, but my guess was 77-70 LC.   

Also it maybe a little early for weekend predictions but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the UPS WW game will go down to the last minute.

WW 91 UPS 86   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 06, 2007, 03:46:13 pm
Bucs-

Where did you get that conference ranking?  Thats pretty cool, I had no idea the NWC was ranked that high!

As for the game tonight...I'm also hoping for a Pac win, but to be realistic and with the game being at LC I'm gonna have to say LC 72-62. 

Then for the big show this Friday, obviously I have to go with my guys pulling it out in the last few minutes...UPS 85 WW 83!!!  My prediction is its gonna be an awesome game, however since UPS will be at home and more desperate for the win they will pull it out...Can't wait!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 06, 2007, 03:48:02 pm
We'll have a much better idea about where each conference stands with regard to a second berth once the regional rankings come out this week.  If a conference has two or more teams ranked regionally, that is a good sign.  Although to gain an at-large spot, a team will have to be pretty high in the regional rankings at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 06, 2007, 04:22:55 pm
SCIAC is #13 in the Massey ratings without MOV, and #21 in the Massey ratings using MOV (http://www.mratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=1).

Most observers seem to think that the MOV ratings are the more accurate.  I believe the non-MOV ratings were devised because the NCAA didn't want D1 teams running up the score on inferior opponents, so they mandated that MOV could not be part of the selection process.  I think Massey is part of RPI, whatever that is, or maybe the BCS in football (since I don't give a rats patootey about D1, I'm not clear), so Kenneth Massey came up with a bastardized version to satisfy Indianapolis.

All the evidence you need is that Lake Erie is #2 in the non-MOV rankings.  Using the MOV algorithm, they drop to #33.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 06, 2007, 04:53:33 pm
Bucs and Logs,

I can go with your predictions, and their honest ones considering you both want my Boxers to win and you're predicting LC.  With LC being so good at home and Pacific struggling on the road, I'll say it's 50/50 at best.  I was at the last two Pac/LC games, last year's Pacific blowout win and this year's Pacific OT win (after a dominating 1st half), so hopefully there's a confidence thing going on in Pacific's head that will help them pull through tonight.  Looking forward to catching tonight's game.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 06, 2007, 04:54:27 pm
Give it up Collinge, although I agree with you, you've started an argument with an old Oxy fan who will not stop arguing your topic until he is either dead or has such a severe case of carpel tunnel that he can no longer type (but even in that case he'll just get one of those voice recognition programs so he can continue to rant).  Either way I don't think anyone can argue that the SCIAC is stronger than the NWC this season (even Oxy Bob didn't argue that point), but the top 2-3 SCIAC teams would give the top NWC teams a run for their money week in and week out if they were to play each other frequently.  Anyways...even though the game is at LC, it's two teams who rely on their ability to shoot the ball and I'm gonna venture out and say LC goes a little cold tonight.  Pacific 72  LC 68
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 06, 2007, 10:29:54 pm
Oxybob I didn't know there was a ranking with and without MOV either.  I just went off of the one that I came across.   Just like 509 rat said I think a few interesting games would be:

WW vs. Redlands  Edge to WW

OXY vs. LC         edge to OXY

UPS vs. Cal Lu.  Edge to UPS

I would actually like to see UPS vs. Redlands the most

How 'bout next year we create a SCIAC/NWC Challenge like the ACC/Big Ten Challenge?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gray Fox on February 06, 2007, 10:44:24 pm
How 'bout next year we create a SCIAC/NWC Challenge like the ACC/Big Ten Challenge?
Good idea.
Next year there is going to be a PAC 10/Big 12 challenge, too.
The difference is revenue (DI) vs expense (D3).  :'(
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 06, 2007, 11:04:25 pm
true, but we can dream
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 06, 2007, 11:08:14 pm
same as last time...I can't get the radio to work for the PAC LC game.  If someone is listening and wants to give updates a few times I would appreciate it
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 06, 2007, 11:19:32 pm
MOV vs. non-MOV. It all hinges on what you want -- do you want a BCS type of ranking or an RPI type of ranking? If you want the BCS style ranking, then use the non-MOV. If you want a real ranking, you better use margin of victory.

Nice to know Oxy and Whitworth get some credit for beating Caltech by a million points.

Hardly. I am pretty sure Massey caps the value of a game's MOV at well short of the 77 points Oxy beat Caltech by. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 07, 2007, 12:08:25 am
Thanks Pat.   So you would say MOV is better?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 07, 2007, 12:10:40 am
Any news on a halftime score? LC/ PAC
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 07, 2007, 12:22:29 am
Thanks Pat.   So you would say MOV is better?

I think it seems more accurate. Neither one is perfect but I think that just throwing the score out the window isn't very enlightening.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 07, 2007, 01:02:41 am
looks like LC smashed PAC tonight.  It all comes down to the UPS WW   and LC WW games for 1st 2nd and 3rd
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 07, 2007, 01:03:10 am
i meant ww ups and lc ups  games
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 07, 2007, 07:33:03 pm
Maybe I can't add anymore, but shouldn't Whitworth's overall and regional records listed in this week's regional rankings be 19-2 and 16-2?  They seem to be missing a win in there, which could have an impact.  Even without the Walla Walla game, I still get 18 regional counters, according to the schedule on this website.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 07, 2007, 08:43:28 pm
Pineconefan,

Your math is correct, I was looking at the same thing as well.  They have Wheaton down as a region game, yet they are a midwest region team.  Take that one out and everything adds up.

After my daughter's game last night I went to catch the second half of the Pac/LC game.  LC offense was clickin', they could make noise in the conference tourney, and if they play the way they did the second half last night, they could make noise in the "big dance".  My Boxers are another recruiting class and a couple of athletes away.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2007, 12:55:29 am
Pineconefan,

Your math is correct, I was looking at the same thing as well.  They have Wheaton down as a region game, yet they are a midwest region team.  Take that one out and everything adds up.

Wheaton/Whitworth is a regional game:
http://www.d3hoops.com/faq.php?question=44
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 08, 2007, 02:10:40 am
OK Pat, thanks, so where's the missing game Pinecone noticed?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2007, 02:11:36 am
I don't know, but I'll take it up with the NCAA along with the other apparent errors, just as in previous years.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 09, 2007, 01:56:19 pm
Well, its been pretty slow around here fellas...

Huuuuuuuuge game tonight with WW and UPS facing off, it could decide who gets first in conference(although I realize LC still has a say in that)... most everyone has already voiced their opinions and predictions about the game.  I've got to admit UPS is looking like an underdog, especially from our little posting community here.  But I'm confident...it's gonna be a great game to watch and I think the home crowd will be a big part of the LOGGER VICTORY!!!  Both teams are very talented so I'm excited to see who comes to play and who decides to be a no show(player wise).  I think the Loggers are overdue for a season defining/ signiture win and this is gonna be it!  Go Logs!!!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWC bball fan on February 09, 2007, 02:28:22 pm
Word on the street is that BWilliams is out with an injury for Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 09, 2007, 02:53:02 pm
WOW!!! If that's true it would be a huge blow to WW.  However, I still think they will be more than capable of beating UPS if the Loggers don't come out ready to play, anything can happen in a game this big.  With first place in the NWC on the line I'm sure WW will come out with big time intesity.  I'm not gonna lie, the game won't be the same without BWilliams...but I won't be sad to see him sitting on the side line in street clothes. 

Thanks for the info NWC bball fan.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2007, 08:17:47 pm
Two questions, since I don't pay attention to the NWC too often.

Why do they only have THREE in the conference tourney?  There are 8 teams, wouldn't it be logical to take the top four and play a Friday semifinals, Saturday finals?

Why is there a March 10th game scheduled (listed on this site), UPS v Williamette...one, they've already played each other twice and two, that's tourney time baby!  :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on February 09, 2007, 11:17:03 pm
My guess is that the March 10th entry is a mistake.  It's deleted, but we appreciate the heads-up.

And the NWC used to not do any playoff at all.  Maybe a travel issue?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on February 09, 2007, 11:18:15 pm
If anyone's having problems with the Whitworth stream (like I was), here is one from KLAY:

http://www.klay1180.com/live_radio.htm
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 09, 2007, 11:37:30 pm
If anyone's having problems with the Whitworth stream (like I was), here is one from KLAY:

http://www.klay1180.com/live_radio.htm

But how am I going to improve my life through better hearing if I have to listen to KLAY?  ??? ;) :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 09, 2007, 11:48:20 pm
But how am I going to improve my life through better hearing if I have to listen to KLAY?  ??? ;) :D

After listening to KLAY for that long, your ears will really be Aiken, for sure.  >:( :-\
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on February 09, 2007, 11:54:25 pm
Wow.

I didn't get the American Idol reference until OS hammered it home. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 10, 2007, 12:01:18 am
Wow.

I didn't get the American Idol reference until OS hammered it home. :)

Egad...my reference was not to "American Idol."  Ick...ick...ick...:P...I never, ever watch that horrible show.

My reference should be recognizable to anyone who's ever tuned in KSBN for a Whitworth Pirates broadcast.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 10, 2007, 12:07:47 am
I've never watched it either...but sometimes you can't get away from hearing about it via newspaper, tv etc...and that country woman who won it last year (Underwood?) is pretty attractive.

Stevens Point hosts the worlds largest trivia contest every year.  Our team tries to take notes on tv, movies, books etc.  As part of my loyalty to my team, I suffered through the movie, From Justin to Kelly, a horrible "musical" starring two of the original American Idol performers, and of course Kelly Clarkson won the first year, or something like that, right?

I seem to know a lot about this American Idol for never watching a single show!  Seriously, I've never watched it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: gordonmann on February 10, 2007, 12:54:24 am
Ahhh, yes.

The hearing commercial that airs on KSBN.  I've only listened to a couple Whitworth games but I do remember that spot now.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 10, 2007, 12:55:59 am
Whitworth 82, UPS 80. 0:51 and UPS steals the ball...jump ball arrow to Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 10, 2007, 01:04:52 am
UPS makes 1 of 2 FTs with 5 seconds left...84 all to OT.  UPS had a 7 point lead at the half (I think) and Whitworth blew a late lead.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 10, 2007, 01:14:13 am
Only took Whitworth 4+ minutes to score their first points of OT.  UPS up 8 with 40 seconds to go in OT.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 10, 2007, 03:23:20 pm
UPS shoots the lights out against Whitworth once again...over 50% from beyond the arc (I think it was around 52-53%, and just before regulation ended they were shooting over 60%).  Foster was under 30% from three point range on the season and went 6-7.  Whitworth's defense is to blame...I like their philosophy, just pack it in and make people beat you from beyond the arc, slow the game down and let your highly efficient offense do its thing.  But you'd think against a UPS team that has done that to you plenty of times some adjustments would be made.  Oh well, Whitworth should still make the conference tourney, and I don't think UPS will shoot like this for a third straight time against the Pirates, but I've been wrong a lot lately (and that's even assuminng that the Pirates can beat a dang good LC team if that matchup ends up happening first).  Whitworth has left themselves without any room for error and has to win out to eve think about getting a single home-game in the tourney.  And am I correct in thinking that UPS and LC still have to play each other one more time?  and if so, when?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 10, 2007, 07:48:20 pm
And am I correct in thinking that UPS and LC still have to play each other one more time?  and if so, when?

http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Puget%20Sound&team=mens

There's all sorts of useful and interesting information all over D3Hoops.com!  ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 10, 2007, 11:41:39 pm
Thanks, Collinge...I was trying to just get the answer without having to do any extra work.  That link was very nice of you though.  You could have just said "Yes" but I wouldn't want you to have to go to all that trouble.  I'm sure that posting the link was much less work than those three letters.  Anyways, UPS lost to Whitman tonight, Whitworth beat PLU...I would post the scores and their records but that nifty link Collenge used tells you everything you need to know.  As a Whitworth fan I will now be rooting for UPS next week.  If they beat LC (here's a hint, shoot like you do against the Pirates and this one wont be close) then Whitworth can gain sole possesion of first place in the conference as long as they take care of Whitman and Willamette again.  So untill next week is over...GO LOGGERS!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 10, 2007, 11:44:59 pm
Wow...touchy.  :-\  I just thought maybe you didn't know there were easily-accessible schedules on this site.  So sue me.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 11, 2007, 02:31:53 am
After watching the UPS win Friday and my man J Jones play his worst game in two years, I thought dang, "Those Loggers just have our number".  A great shooting night, a effective crowd and 5 fouls on the non injured B Williams (with 3 minutes to go) doomed the Pirates.  I think Foster just went to PTY status in my book.  Incredible shooting by this guy and every one that went in was a no doubter. Why doesn't he throw more of those 3's in any other conf. games?

All that being said....

The Logs lose to Whitman, and I again start to think WW is a better team but then back to point A, they have beat us twice.  I give up, but I do believe that homecourt is worth a minimum of 6 pts and all 3 top teams are within 5 points of each other, maybe 3 on a neutral court.

Go UPS (gulp) on Friday vs LC and hopefully a tired WW team (60 percent FT % this last weekend) can get by in Walla Walla and shut down a potential spoiler in Willamette.

LC holds their destiny in their own hands, can they win out?

I love college basketball!!  Where's my defibrilator?


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 11, 2007, 02:27:59 pm
Thanks, Collinge...I was trying to just get the answer without having to do any extra work.  That link was very nice of you though.  You could have just said "Yes" but I wouldn't want you to have to go to all that trouble. 

Wow...touchy.  :-\  I just thought maybe you didn't know there were easily-accessible schedules on this site.  So sue me.

Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day.  Show a man how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.

Sometimes you gain a lot more respect when you do your own "homework"...and there are a lot of posters that don't know of all the useful links on this site, but sometimes even I get lazy.  ;D :D ;) ::) :P

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 12, 2007, 10:32:25 am
The Loggers really showed their youth this weekend :-\.  Just like I've been saying all year long, they play to the level of the game.  On Friday against WW they played the best game I've seen them play all year long...and then on Saturday against Whitman they played the worst I've seen them play all year long.  If they ever gain some consistency they will be a very tough team.  They have tremendous talent, but they just need to use it all the time instead of on and off. 

Fridays game was highly entertaining with a great crowd.  As has already been stated, Jason Foster played a great game and looked like a POTY!  BWilliams was probably the best player for WW, although he may be the cheapest player in the NWC you can't deny his effectivness...until he fouled out(that lost them the game by the way).  I wasn't that impressed with Symes, although this was the only time ive seen him play in person, I thought he would have had more of an impact in such a big game.  He had a couple nice blocks and pull up jumpers, but in my opinion he was just OK. 

On Saturday it was all Whitman, I have to give them a lot of credit.  For a team that is on the bottom of the league they came into Tacoma and played with a lot of confidence.  Great performances by Warner, Hazel, Faidley(9 threes I think!!!) and Born.  If Born was on a team with a winning record he would be a serious candidate for POTY. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 12, 2007, 05:50:27 pm
Faidley did hit 9 threes...guess how many he shot?  10!  He shot 90% from thee point land...I guess the UPS fans felt saturday how us Pirates felt friday night.  Oh well, its still anyone's conference especially this year...home court through the tourney would be nice but with these 3 teams it isn't a necesity.  They have all been capable of winning and losing big games at both home and on the road.  Is Whitworth the only team in the NWC that does an internet broadcast?  and if Collinge was wondering I will check this out on my own but...does anyone know if LC does a live stat tracker like some of the other NWC teams?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 12, 2007, 07:26:26 pm
UPS does -- I listened to it Friday night because Whitworth's was full.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 12, 2007, 09:31:59 pm
Thanks Pat, I'll have to try and get that and the whitworth one up and running this tuesday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 12, 2007, 09:36:22 pm
UPS does -- I listened to it Friday night because Whitworth's was full.

As did I.  And the live stat tracker.
Title: End of the Year
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on February 13, 2007, 11:23:57 am
A.  I've asked this before, but can someone explain how WW cannot beat UPS, WU cannot beat WW, yet seemingly can beat UPS every year in Salem...I guess it comes down matchup issues, and some teams just match better against others...

B.  What a big loss by the Loggers Saturday, especially after having all the momentum from the Whitworth sweep...big letdown

C.  WU has one chance to make this season mean something...By beating the Pirates on Friday...sure it won't knock Whitworth out of the NWC tourney, but it could cost them home court, and it could cost them a national tourney bid....either of which should be enough motivation to go at your rival on the last weekend of an underwhelming season

D. To answer the question from last week about next year, WU brings back 4 out of 5 starters in Nugent, Mansfield, Smith and McClary...in addition, Cantrell, Costantino are back from the bench... they need to find a point guard who can play either off the bench or start, and then some depth for the bench, but bringing back 6 players who all played major minutes can't hurt...then again, if those players don't improve, you're looking at the same team that just went 10-12, or whatever they finish...

E. I would lean towards WU being vastly improved, as you look at their home record of 8-2, and realize they were in close games at LC, Pac, and Linfield, and you could argue that its a young team simply learning how difficult it is to play in the NWC night in and night out...us long time 'Cat fans can only hope this season of noncontention is an aberration...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 13, 2007, 12:15:44 pm
"A.  I've asked this before, but can someone explain how WW cannot beat UPS, WU cannot beat WW, yet seemingly can beat UPS every year in Salem...I guess it comes down matchup issues, and some teams just match better against others..." - B-Cats

This has left me with many sleepless nights as well ???  I was thinking about this very topic the other day and I have come up empty.  It doesn't seem to matter how good of a season UPS has, they can't beat WU in Salem.  To confuse me even more(with the exception of this seasons triple OT) UPS slams WU by 30 every year in Tacoma.  I'm not sure what makes up this huge difference, except that WU's gym is a VERY tough place to play...Sorry bcats, no creative answers here.   

Good luck to WU against WW, I hope this mystery doesn't ring true and the Cats are able to come up with a big win over the Bucs!  After biting the dust against Whitman, UPS now needs a maricle in order to get homcourt advantage for the NWC tourney and a WU win would be a huge help! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 15, 2007, 02:09:38 pm
So................... GO UPS!!!
Never really wanted to say that before, but with the current situation I think it calls for it. 
I think the odds are against LC here though.  They will have to win two very tough games and then assuming they win the first two, a third to get into the ncaa tournament against either UPS or WW.   Also if WW wins friday I have to think that they are in good shape for the ncaa tourney even if they don't win the league tournament.  They would be at 22-4 or23-4.   

Logs-
   I saw that Delong was ejected from the game against Whitman.  Does this mean he is not playing on Friday aginst LC?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 16, 2007, 02:16:34 pm
I'm with Bucs, Go loggers.  No matter how much it pains me to do so I will be rooting for UPS this evening.  And my guess is that only one stat will really matter tonight....3pt %.  Whichever team has the highest 3pt % will win this game tonight.  Both teams have lost games when their 3pt shooting has been off, no matter how they are shooting from the field (except for UPS v. Willamette, but whenever you let someone score 140 pts it doesn't matter how you are shooting from anywhere on the court).  Willamette is too young to beat Whitworth at home tonight...Pirates by 10.  Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure they have yet to win a road game in conference play.  Sorry bearcat fans but I don't think you'll get your first tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 16, 2007, 03:27:27 pm
Hey I like all the Logger support Fellas ;D...even if it is only for this one game :-\!  I think Rat hit it on the head though, tonight it's gonna come down to who can shoot a good percentage from the field.  If UPS doesn't play decent transition defense and allows Tillery to slice through the lanes for easy layups again... its not gonna be pretty for the logs.  They need to come out pumped up tonight and give a big time effort like they did last Friday against WW.  Correct me if I'm wrong but LC hasn't lost at home all season, it's gonna take a great game from UPS and probably a little luck to pull off the win.  I have faith though, I've got Loggers 91 and LC 87! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 16, 2007, 03:30:17 pm
Also...Bucs, good question about Delong.  I haven't heard anything one way or the other.  I would assume that he is gonna have to sit this one out though.  I believe the rule is if you are ejected you get a one game suspention.  Anyone have details ???
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2007, 12:33:52 am
UPS was getting smoked by 18 with about 15 minutes to go, they've got it down to 11 or so now...about 11 minutes to go?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 17, 2007, 01:16:01 am
UPS goes down 98-86 to L&C
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on February 17, 2007, 01:46:25 am
Egad...my reference was not to "American Idol."  Ick...ick...ick...:P...I never, ever watch that horrible show.
Hah... I don't think Kelly Clarkson or Carrie Underwood are that bad. With that said, I don't watch the show either, and only found out they were on American Idol after I first heard their music. People have been trying to get me to audition for American Idol for AGES, however. So, not that I would ever try, but I have to ask the hypothetical... would you watch if I was on it David?? Hmm??? ??? :D

If it makes you feel better, since I know you detest pop music, someone at my old church asked me if I was a professional singer after hearing me sing along to the christmas carols at our Christmas service in December. Given the nature of the service and the music, I assume he meant classically.  :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 17, 2007, 03:22:14 am
Well, my 3pt % theory has been disproven tonight with UPS shooting 37.5% and LC shooting 30.8%.  But it looks like Lewis and Clark played some tough d, holding UPS to only 43% form the floor on the night.  Anyways, now I guess I'm a George Fox fan.  Go...what is george fox's mascot again?  Oh yeah, GO BRUINS!

Now I will be looking this up, but does anyone here know off the top of their head how this potential tie-breaker between WW and LC will work?  I would assume head to head would go first but they split that, so then maybe that whole common opponents thing?  I don't know, but if I figure anything else out I'll post whatever I can dig up.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 17, 2007, 03:24:15 am
Well, THAT was quick.  According to the write-up on Whitworth's website...

"Whitworth must await the outcome of tomorrow's L&C-GFU contest to know the date of its next game. Should L&C win, the Pioneers will have the NWC's top seed and Whitworth will host UPS in a semifinal on Wednesday night. If Fox wins, Whitworth will play in Friday night's NWC tournament final against the winner of a rematch between L&C and UPS."

So now I'm a huge Bruin supporter!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 17, 2007, 07:28:51 am
Nice win Pirates and nice bricklaying by the Loggers in the first half.  Good D or not UPS is the streakiest team in show business.  LC outrebounds by 19 for the game....that's the apparent difference last night and Delong did play.

LC at Fox on Homecoming, ANYTHING can happen and usually does.  Go Foxy! (...mind thinks about the show Drawn Together, too funny)

LC is very good at home and a desperate Logger team in Spokane is dangerous.  Its a tough road to the top, but WW can and will do it.  My favorite stat: B Williams, 2 fouls (in the last 3 games).  If he's in, we (WW) win.

I suspect UPS will fall out of rankings on Monday so 2 teams to tourney is no shoe in...








Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 17, 2007, 02:20:41 pm
Quote
I feel your pain

I get a feeling what it's like to have no chance in football.
It's maddening having no dog in this basketball race.

If LINFIELD should manage to outscore UPS tonight, would that have any bearing on the playoff situation?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on February 17, 2007, 03:03:50 pm
Hi D.O.C.,

I think UPS is 2 games back of WW and L&C with 5 Loses. If I'm not mistaken each team just has one game left.
Either way UPS will have to play a game to get to the Championship of the NWC tourney. And I think with a win tonight WW raps up 1st. So L&C would play UPS 2/24 to see who Plays WW.

Kinda Sad the Game tonight doesn't have more impact, but a win for the Cats would be nice. UPS always tries to run up the score on the Cats. Will see tonight. It's Dad's weekend, so maybe we will have a big crowd.

I agree with nwhoops, I think only 1 team gets in the Big dance unless WW doesn't win the NWC tourney.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 17, 2007, 03:51:06 pm
Rat - I noticed this afternoon that Whitworth has updated its website to say that the Pirates have the top seed.

So the Bucs would host the winner of UPS-L&C next Friday.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 17, 2007, 04:26:22 pm
I think you are right pinecone.
   I just read the tiebreakers on the coference website and it looks like WW wins #4 tiebreaker
Here they are:

6.1.2 In case of a tie in the regular season Conference standing affecting
post-season advancement, tie shall be broken by:
1. Head to Head competition in conference games only  ---- they split so this is a tie.

2. Results against all teams above those tied in conference games
only  ---- no teams are above LC and WW so it does not apply

3. Results against above teams in rank order in conference games
only---- again no teams above LC and WW so it does not apply.

4. Order of losses beginning with the 9th seed and moving up to
the tied teams ----WW wins this because LC lost to
pacific and WW has only lost to LC and UPS

Let me know what you guys think but it reads to me that WW wins the tiebreaker
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 17, 2007, 10:03:33 pm
Thank-you  8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 18, 2007, 12:01:16 am
Yea it does look like the WW SID updated the WU win press release and the (odd) tiebreaker procedure rankings do favor WW.

So I guess I dont have to listen to the GF/LC game but I still am...3:49 left first half and GF up 30-18.  UPS game is meaningless, except for the dads.

Go GF and give the Pirates the outright title!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 18, 2007, 08:32:24 pm
Thanks for the info pinecone and bucs77.  Lewis and Clark is absolutley on fire but UPS is still a good team (albeit a very inconsistent one).  I liked how Whitworth closed out the season with an easy win over Willamette, shooting over 60% from the floor.  So now for predictions...who wins, UPS or LC?  I'll give the nod to LC @ home by 3...87-84.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 19, 2007, 09:18:14 pm
Going to favor Lewis and Clark. Perhaps success will bleed over into their football program and interest some alumni again.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 20, 2007, 01:25:52 pm
I've been out for a few days and missed a lot of the convo...

My thoughts about last weekend...OUCH!!!  Looks like the Logger defense didn't bring an inspired effort to the game at LC.  Although there is still a chance for them to get the tourney auto bid(an at large is out of the question now), UPS will have to take the most difficult road to get there.  Traveling to LC and then to WW will be no easy task, but depending on which UPS team decides to show up for those two games they can still make it happen.  In my opinion they have an excellent chance if the inspired/energetic/tough defense Loggers show up.  They have shown the ability to beat tough teams this year so there is no reason to think they can't beat LC and WW.  Good luck to UPS tomorrow night!!! 

Whatever happens in the NWC tournament I hope we send a worthy representative to the national tourney that can do some damage and make some noise for our conference. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 12:37:26 pm
NWC Tourney Predictions?

All-Conference/Player of the Year/Coach of the Year Predictions?

I like LC over UPS and LC to go on the road and beat Whitworth giving the NWC two teams in the tourney hopefully (although they'll most likely will just play each other)

From the games I saw and looking at the stats, for all conference I like

1st team
B. Williams
Symes
Tillery
Bergren
Born

2nd Team
Foster
Satern
Bartlett
Krauel
Nugent

Can't really put my finger on a player of the year.

And a lot of worthy honorable mentions, starting with the UPS guards, Parker, HarisonDavis, Faidley, Timperly, Toboni, etc.

With LC being picked to finish 4th and finishing in a tie for 1st with that long winning streak I'd have to go with Gailord for coach of the year

Let the debating begin............................
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 21, 2007, 01:24:29 pm
Tourney Predictions...

I think its pretty much a toss up between all three teams.  Obviously since I'm a UPS fan I've got faith that the Loggers will be on an up swing in their streakiness (because they haven't been playing well lately) and pull off two road upset wins for their forth conference championship in a row!!!  Realistically, the home teams have a huge advantage which makes WW the favorite...Go UPS though.

All NWC Players...(POY should go to the best player on the team that wins the NWC tourney)

1st team(no particular order)

Foster
BWilliams
Born
Tillery
Krauel

2nd team(no particular order)

Nugent
Bartlett
Faidley
Toboni
Bartlett

COY... LC's coach
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 02:30:48 pm
Logs, I hate to bust your bubble, but UPS will not be winning their 4th straight title.  The conference tourney title is for the automatic bid only.  Accoring to the by laws "the conference champion will be determined by the best win-loss percentage in conference games, in case of a tie, teams shall be declared co-champions".  UPS came in third   :'(, their run of titles is over, regardless of what happens in the conference tourney, Whitworth and LC are the conference champs.

http://www.nwcsports.com/information/governance/bkbprocedures2-07.pdf
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 21, 2007, 02:35:46 pm
Whoops ???, I put Bartlett on there twice...just noticed that.  Replace one of them with Symes. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 21, 2007, 02:40:38 pm
"Logs, I hate to bust your bubble, but UPS will not be winning their 4th straight title.  The conference tourney title is for the automatic bid only.  Accoring to the by laws "the conference champion will be determined by the best win-loss percentage in conference games, in case of a tie, teams shall be declared co-champions".  UPS came in third   , their run of titles is over, regardless of what happens in the conference tourney, Whitworth and LC are the conference champs."

NWCer,   

Touche :o...I didn't even think about that when I was posting earlier.  You are of course correct on that fact...I retract my previous statement...Sorry for the misunderstanding :-\. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 02:50:09 pm
No apologies needed logs, just wanted to make sure everyone knew that info, I know there was confusion about it last year as well.  You're a true fan, you stick by your boys. 

Do you think they can pull both off?  That would be a major accomplishment to beat both co-champs on the road.

I saw that you had Bartlett down twice, I thought you just really liked my Boxers  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2007, 02:51:00 pm
I am curious how high Whitman would have had to finish for Born to get serious consideration as Player of the Year?  He still might get it, but I wouldn't bet on it.  But if he was playing on one of the playoff teams, he be a shoe in (IMO).  

Any thoughts?  If Whitman had finished .500 or just above, would the coaches be more likely to consider him the Player of the Year?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2007, 02:52:10 pm
And I would agree with both COY choices so far, Gaillard has to be the guy this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 02:58:56 pm
Pineconefan, I can see Born as POY, Leading rebounder and scorer, not bad, and it's not like he played in a system where you would get inflated numbers.  You have to consider him.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 21, 2007, 03:21:05 pm
Without Borne, Whitman may not win a game.  He led the league in scoring and rebounding.  That is a hard thing to accomplish.  The coaches would be hard pressed not to pick him for POY.

Gene Rivera should get some love, too.  Anyone who has seen LC play would say that he could be the MVP of that team.  He defends from the 1 to the 5, depending who the opponent's best player is,  and he handles the ball when Tillery is out.  Watching him play this year was fun.

Borne
Williams
Tillery
Jones
Krauel

Krauel
Rivera
Bartlett
Marsh
Satern
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 21, 2007, 03:23:31 pm
Oops, take Krauel off the second team and add Berggren
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2007, 03:24:47 pm
Bigfella,

Welcome to the board.  Interesting take on Rivera.  You may be right about him being the key to that team, but I think to most outside observers, he gets lost behind Tillery and those three point shooters.

Interesting rematch tonight for your guys.  How do you think the fact that UPS and L&C just played five days ago will impact tonight's game?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 21, 2007, 03:30:44 pm
Remember, the coaches pick the all-league teams.  And, I am sure they all were impressed with Rivera.

I think it will be a good game tonight.  Both teams will be ready, I think.  Playing a team twice within a week is tough on both sides.  Whoever controls the boards and turnovers should be fine.  It will be a fun game to watch, though.  It is win or go home for both.  Neither will get an at large.  If they don't get the auto, it will be recruiting and preparing for next year. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 03:58:59 pm
When does the all league team come out?

Just some jibberish on some topics:

Dissapointments - Willamette, UPS, Linfield (even though they were picked to finish last, how can a place with those resources be so bad?).

Surprises - Whitman winning at UPS, LC winning the title (I think they were picked 4th), Pacific finishing 4th.

Thoughts on tourney - I think Whitworth is the best team, but LC is playing the best, and I think UPS is in a whole lot of trouble

Next year - LC loses nobody, Whitworth loses a lot, UPS loses nobody, Pacific loses nobody, Fox loses a lot, Willamette loses very little, Whitman loses a lot, Not sure about PLU, and don't think it really matters about Linfield (being a Boxer fan and having them dominate us for so long, feels good seeing them struggle  :D)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 21, 2007, 04:37:59 pm
Welcome Big Fella, 

It's always nice to see someone besides the usual (3-5) suspects around here.  I'm not judging your all nwc picks, just curious as to why no Jason Foster?  He is the second leading scorer in the league and one of the best rebounders too, he seems like a shoe in to me. 

NWCer,

I think Bartlett is a good player, but not enough to fill two NWC spots ;D.  I agree with your "thoughts on the tourney" LC is playing the best bball of any team in the conference right now.  If they can get past a spirited UPS team tonight, I think they have a great chance of beating WW. 

Pinecones,

I think if Born was on a team with a winning record he would have to be POY.  He may be the goofiest looking bball player in the league but you can't argue with 19pts 11rbs...if his team had more wins.  He's certainly a first teamer this year though, even if Whitman is in the cellar. 

Thoughts for next year...

WW is gonna take a serious nose dive, graduating everybody good but Symes is not gonna be helpful for 07-08.  LC will be very tough once again, Rivera and Toboni are coming back(I think ???).  Those two are what makes LC go, they are physical and both play great defense.  UPS will return to the top of the league next year, they will have senior leadership, it won't be Lunt's first year as head coach, they have great returning guards and if Krauel and Foster gain 10 pounds each in the weight room they will be completely unstoppable.  As for the rest of the league, I look for WU to regain some power and Pacific to be in the mix as well.  Not sure what the bottom feeders will do, especially Whitman who loses Born, Faidley, and Warner...OUCH :o!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 21, 2007, 05:56:56 pm
Foster is a great player in this league and he could be a first teamer as he deserves recognition.  I am only going on the games I have seen in person.  But when UPS needed a bucket, it was time to get it to Krauel and Taylor Marsh hit bis shots when needed.  Not to say Foster hasn't, but from watching, it seemed pretty clear who they relied on when it was go time.

And Bartlett was consistant throughout the season while the other big cat was not available.  He held that team down.  14 and 9 is a good year on a team that doesn't score much.

And, you never know what will happen as to next year.  Whitworth lost two all-league players including the MVP and returned to the top.  They will get three jucos and two good frosh and be right back in the mix.  UPS return a lot and bring in good players.  I think Pacific will bring in players, also.  There are teams with advantages and those teams will never really hurt for good players.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 21, 2007, 06:24:28 pm
Big Fella,

I guess I can understand your reasoning on Foster, he must have played pretty poorly when you watched him :-\  Obviously we are all entitled to our own opinions about players in the league, although it does seem a little strange to judge a player on a single game ???  oh well...
By the way I'm glad you mentioned Marsh in your picks, he's had a great season. 


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 21, 2007, 06:39:48 pm
I have seen Foster play in multiple games, actually.  And, he is a great player who is deserving of props and he definitely gets props from me.  I just think that other teams work on how to stop Krauel on the inside and how to limit Marsh from getting off.  And, I think Foster is in a situation sort of like Borne, but on the other end.  If he were on a lessor team, he would shine more than the other stars out there.

In my opinion if you lose Marsh and/or krauel from this team, UPS is a 5th or 6th place squad.  But, the way your team plays with their backs against the wall, someone might step up, so what do I know.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 21, 2007, 07:42:23 pm
Bigfella,
 
You are right, with the way Hayford has recruited over the years, Whitworth won't "nosedive" next year.  I don't think they'll be conference champions again, but they could certainly challenge for the NWC tournament.

L&C has EVERY player back next year.  UPS has nearly every key player back.  Those two teams should be the clear favorites for next year.

One will get a leg up tonight...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 07:44:34 pm
Big Fella, I can see your analogy regarding the UPS personell, good points.

You're also right about Whitworth, I think their coach is too good to just take a dive because he's losing some key guys, I'm sure he'll find a way to reload.

I also hope you're right about my Boxers bringing in guys, like I've said in earlier posts, Lowery needs to bring in some athletes, that seemed to be the difference between them and the top 3 teams this season IMO.  Funny you say that they will never really hurt for good players, I hope you're right, because we had a stretch there where that wasn't the case, hopefully things will be different now.

And I saw my Boxers in about 10 games this year, though awkward looking out there, that Bartlett is consistent like you said, and always looked impressive in the box score.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 21, 2007, 07:47:45 pm
Pineconefan, we think alike, Whitworth will find a way to be in the mix next year.

UPS and LC are the clear cut favorites, they do bring everyone back, but does UPS bring back their coach?  Does he lose the interim tag or do they bring in someone else meaning we've seen the last of the system?  Regardless, Williams, Delong, Marsh, Kraeul, and Foster will be good in any system.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 21, 2007, 08:16:29 pm
Coach Lowery does a good job with what he has and I am sure he sees the need for better athletes.  They have a strong base with the inside guys and a hungry scorer in Harrison.  Add two one athlete to that coupled with the maturation of all those frosh he had and you have a scary team.  It really would be sracy if he let them open it up a little.

UPS is by far the most talented team top to bottom and will be for a while.  The scary thing is, what if they do drop the system and just play teams straight up where there aren't 50 lay-ins per game for the other team. 

LC's coach has been in the mix for years.  They seem to have gotten back where they were actually used to being.  I think Bridge would say that he learned a lot while being Gaillard's assistant.   

Hayford works hard at it and has a pipeline in Cali Jucos (Delta, DVC) so he will not hurt and they have guys on the bench now that can play.  It just seems like he likes to play only seven.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 21, 2007, 11:54:50 pm
sorry I have been away for a bit.  Out of town for a funeral.   Glad to see the board is lively.  Listening to the game tonight and so far so good for LC.   I think if you asked a WW fan they wouldn't actually care who they played in the Championship,  they might want UPS to get another shot at them, I dunno.   In looking at the at large bids it also doesn't look like WW is any guarantee.  It would be tough to leave home a team with 22 wins and a few solid wins in pre season as well as co champs in the NWC, but to be sure they have to win.  I just hope that if they do win they are not shipped out to minnesota or SOCal because of budgeting issues.  In 2002 WW was hosed a bit when they won the NWC and the conference tourney and was sent to Gustavus Adolphus because it was cheaper to then bus them to Wisconsin rather than pay for the gusties to come to Spokane and then both to fly back if WW had won.   I don't think that the commitee realizes how important home court is in the Playoffs let alone the NCAA tourney.  I know money is a factor however in decision making and has to be.

On my All NWC Team I have

COTY:  LC Coach
POTY:  BWilliams WW

first team:
     Foster
     Born
     Symes
     Tillery
     Kraul

Second:
     Bartlett
     Satern
     AWilliams
     Taboni
     Nugent?
     Faidley?
     Harrison-Davis? (Not sure about that last spot)

Honorable mention:
  Good Luck to the coaches here there are a ton:
Marsh, Parker, Timperley, Dressler, Brandeberry, Warner, Berrgren, Rivera, (Any of the other WW starters)   GOOD LUCK!!

Looks like a final LC66 UPS60   
Anybody watch the game?   why such a low score?     
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Seattle Buc on February 22, 2007, 01:19:30 am
Hello everybody,
I am an Whitworth alumnist and currently live in the Seattle area.  Because of the distance between myself and Spokane, I can only follow the bucs and the NWC through looking at stats, box scores, press releases, and this message board.

Congrats to LC on their big win tonight at home vs the always dangerous team from UPS.  In looking at the stats and catching the end of the broadcast, it sounds like UPS went cold and LC turned up the D.  It is shaping up to be a great one in Spokane on Saturday.  Lets not forget that Whitworth was not anywhere near full strenght when the two teams met at LC.  My brother who lives in the Portland area went to that game and it sounds like BWilliams early fould trouble really dictated the outcome of that game.  Plus not having James Jones in line up was very costly to the Bucs. 

As for all the talk about the All-NWC team.....  It is a little suprising to me that Tillery is in talks of being a first-team selection.  His numbers are roughly 11 ppg and 5 rebs.  For a point guard his 2. something assissts a game are not that impressive.  From what I have heard, he is no threat what so ever to shoot the ball.  Now with that said... I agree he is a good player and maybe a good 2nd-team selection but first is a bit of a stretch.  Like I said before, I am a stats guy and apparently so are the other people on this site for picking thier all-conference teams.  However, you have to play in 75% of the games to be listed on the season stats on the conference web site.  James Jones from Whitworth missed 6 games with an injury (4-2 record during that stretch) and looking back at the stats not a Whitworth starter played against Cal Tech.  Therefore, Jones is not registering on the stats page.   How can bucs77 be leaving him of his list???  Anyway Jones appeared in 18 games and is averaging 16.6 on a team that has 5 players averaging double figures.  He would rank #2 in ast/to ratio, #3 in 3pt fg %, #4 in scoring, steals ppg, 3pt fg made, #9 in fg percentage (for a guard) and minutes played pg, and #10 is assists.  Additionally for conference games only he is averaging 17.3 ppg which would place .2 behind Born and Foster.  His conference only numbers also increase in other categories as well.  Accoring to a few guys I still talk to back at Whitworth, he probably would have been a front runner for POY had he remained healthy all year.  I realize now that is a far stretch, but a first-team All-NWC seems pretty obvious.  That is of course if you only look at the current conference stats that appear when you click on the link.  I would bet the coaches will get it right when they vote. 

Also, BWilliams is probably the best choice for POY, but I agree that Born from Whitman deserves some strong consideration.  Foster from UPS made a late season case for it during his Whitworth/Whitman weekend as far as the stats go.

Again, these are just some observations from a long-distance fan.  I would love to make it to the fieldhouse on Saturday and bring back some old memories, but I don't think I will make it.  I will definately by listening to Bob Castle.  If the Bucs host an NCAA game, I might just have to re-schedule some appointment and take the short flight to Spokane.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 22, 2007, 01:34:59 am
I was at the LC/UPS game tonight and the scores were low because of poor shooting, not necessarily defense.  Both teams were colder than I've ever seen them!   Lots of missed shots, no shots & turnovers!  Thought UPS was going to take over during the first half, but LC got it together in the 2nd half.  LC  trailed by 8-10 points most of the game but when they finally took the lead, they stayed there.  Very loud crowds for both sides.   What UPS's crowd lacked in size, they made up for in noise!  No one seemed to like the refs, what's new?  Entertaining game.  Not sure if LC can beat Whitworth, especially if they play like they did tonight.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on February 22, 2007, 02:19:40 am
Seattle Buc, Tillery as a first-teamer is no stretch, would be a crime if he isn't, there's more to it than stats - he averages 11 on a very balanced team and 5rpg is nothing to sneeze at - more than a number of starting post guys in the conference.  LC is a spread you out and isolate team with a lot of ball handlers so he's not making "the play" or "the pass" every possession the way a B. Williams or the little PG from Fox does, so his low assist average is not surprising.  He's the engine that makes them (conference co-champs- hottest team in league) go.

Tillery, B. Williams, Symes, Born, any could get POY, and all are deserving IMO.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 22, 2007, 05:10:39 am
In looking at the at large bids it also doesn't look like WW is any guarantee.  It would be tough to leave home a team with 22 wins

The overall record is irrelevant. Regional wins -- or, more specifically, regional winning percentage -- is what's important. A Whitworth loss to L&C in the NWC title game would drop the RW% of the Pirates down to .826 (19-4), which is still excellent and quite worthy of Pool C. However, the QOWI of the Pirates is currently 9.909, good for 36th in the nation, and it would drop with a loss to L&C. The whispers over in the Pool C room are that a QOWI of 10 are going to be needed to get a Pool C berth. Add that to the fact that Whitworth is only ranked sixth in the West Region at the moment, and you're looking at a team that's seriously on the bubble if it loses the game to determine the NWC's automatic bid.

and a few solid wins in pre season

Non-conference, not preseason. ;)

I just hope that if they do win they are not shipped out to minnesota or SOCal because of budgeting issues.  In 2002 WW was hosed a bit when they won the NWC and the conference tourney and was sent to Gustavus Adolphus because it was cheaper to then bus them to Wisconsin rather than pay for the gusties to come to Spokane and then both to fly back if WW had won.   I don't think that the commitee realizes how important home court is in the Playoffs let alone the NCAA tourney.  I know money is a factor however in decision making and has to be.

I can almost guarantee that the sectional will be played somewhere other than on the West Coast. The only two West Coast teams that are ranked in the region are #5 Occidental and #6 Whitworth. Neither is high enough to warrant hosting a sectional, especially when the all-important travel costs are worked into the equation.

In fact, no matter who wins the NWC title game, I can foresee a situation in which the NWC rep and Oxy are the only West Coast representatives in the tournament. In that case, it'd be easy to imagine the two teams being paired against each other in a Thursday night opening round game (at whichever team ends up higher in the West Region rankings on Selection Sunday) and the winner then being shipped to play at a team that drew an opening-round bye, presumably UW-Stevens Point.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 22, 2007, 07:34:52 am
It's translators like you that caused the Punic Wars to last 120 years, Bob. :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 22, 2007, 10:49:08 am
First off,
Congrats to UPS on a solid season.  LC came up with a big win last night but 3rd place is pretty good for such a young Logger squad and Coach.  I know they will be back next year strong as ever. 

For the Saturday showdown with WW and LC....
  I gotta say that WW is the heavy favorite in this one, home court advantage is huge and now that they are healthy WW is a very talented team.  LC is a tough/physical/athletic team, but I think WW will be too much for them.  I also think the Bucs will have the best chance against national competition because they are bigger than LC, more experienced, and have a great guard in BWilliams.  Obviously, I will be cheering for whoever wins though(atleast smash the SCIAC :D)...good luck to both teams. 

As for the national tourney...
I can all but guarantee there will be no at large bid for the NWC.  Additionally, I definitely agree with Oxybob, there is no way Oxy or WW(or should I say the SCIAC or NWC) will host a regional this year.  Niether team is ranked high enough in region, nor gets enough respect nationally to host.  Plus UW Stevens Point is back as a powerhouse which means whoever wins the SCIAC vs NWC showdown is sent as a sacraficial lamb to be dominated by the Pointers...have fun with that by the way, being a UPS fan, we just love those Pointers :-\!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 22, 2007, 11:53:09 am
The game last night was a great one to watch.  As a basketball fan, it was good to see coaches make adjustments, even when they just played five or so days ago.  UPS bringing their guards to the front court to pressure instead of having Foster at the point of the press.  And, Gaillard adjusting to that and bringing in a third and fourth ball handler to take away that pressure.  it is the little things that changes games.  UPS didn't score a field goal for almost nine minutes in the second half.  LC turned up the defense and got to the UPS shooters, while keeping the ball from the inside. 

Some say if LC plays the way they did last night they won't win Saturday and I disagree.  If some thought the game game was sloppy with missed shots and turnovers, you were right, and you would understand playing one team within a week is the hardest thing to do.

Whoever makes it out is going to have a tough time because the tourney is set up for the teams back east to win.  Congrats to UPS for what they have done  in recent years to bring more games to our coast.  The only team from our league to make it will be the one who wins on Saturday.  If LC would not have lost to Cal Lutheran, then maybe there could have been a chance, but not now.

But, in a one game situation, I would not count againt Bob Gaillard, no matter where the game is played.  He prepares his teams to get down.  No disrespect to the other coaches around, but if you look at the history of LC inthe play-offs at Wisconsin schools, the games have been there to win.  So, I think LC is better suited to win on the road out there.

Lastly, whoever doesn't think Tillery is a first teamer needs to call a couple(all) of the head coaches in this league.  I am sure they will tell you what the deal is.  That kid can flat out go.  With or without a "jumper" he is a HOG on the court.  As U of Portland, Hawaii Hilo, U or Oregon........  He gets down, especially in the big game.



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on February 22, 2007, 12:39:58 pm
Quote
Linfield (even though they were picked to finish last, how can a place with those resources be so bad?)

I am not kicking a dead horse at this moment.

Quote
don't think it really matters about Linfield (being a Boxer fan and having them dominate us for so long, feels good seeing them struggle.)

Cannot blame you. One must take the sour with the sweet when our tongues are so equipped.

So with a neutral mode on I would like to see a playoff game hosted in SoCal for the selfish reason that I can watch it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 22, 2007, 01:20:11 pm
sager,
            my 22 wins comment was based on the fact that you only play about 25-26 games before playoffs which would mean a good winning percentage.  And as for all the travel talk I hop whatever happens saturday WW gets sent to mexico to play againts the mexican national team while oxy has to play the canadians, then assuming they both win, they can play eachother.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 22, 2007, 04:40:05 pm
Wow, I don't post for a little over a day and this board really heats up.  There's too much to comment on everything but a few things that I remember thinking as I read is that...if UPS only gets one player named as first team all-conference it will (and should) be Foster.  I agree with OxyBob that we in the West get screwed...didn't UPS make enough of a run last year in the tourney to garner us some respect?  But then again it would cost the NCAA way too much money to fly the midwest teams to so-cal or spokane...and we all now the NCAA can't stand to lose a few thousand dollars, their whole organization would crumble.  Finally, Whitworth over LC at home...63-57.  Like Bucs and pineconefan have said, this Whitworth team is back at full strength (health wise) and have played well in their last couple of games, I wouldn't look for them to let up at home.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 22, 2007, 05:15:26 pm
I have to apologize for my missed assessment of Jason Foster.  He played like a warrior last night.  I always thought that we was great, but be took it a step further.  It only makes me think, "why isn't he the focus of their offense??????"
Foster had one play run for him all night, and it was a make shift post up play. 

And, why isn't Pickney more of a player there?  He is a freak athlete and plays extremely hard?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 22, 2007, 05:48:20 pm
Bigfella,

I'm glad you were able to re-assess your opinion of Foster by seeing him play again last night.  He is a great player and I was slightly confused as to why you didn't think he was a crucial part of the UPS squad.  I don't think he gets many offensive plays ran for him in part because of the UPS "run and gun" system and also in part because they have so many other offensive options(Awilliams, Delong,Krauel,Marsh, etc).  However, I think for UPS to get the most out of their team next season they need to realize who their go to guys are and make a point of getting them the ball more(Foster and Krauel).  The other guys may take a slide in their stats but the team will be better as a whole. 

 As for Pinkney, you are right he is very talanted and athletic...he really just needs to get more confidence out on the floor.  Right now he doesn't get enough playing time to get comfortable.  It's kind of funny because everyone sees how effective he is when he gets the chance to play... yet he never gets much consistent playing time to prove himself.  Hopefully adjustments will be made and he will find a more significant role in the Logger rotation next season. 

Once again...Great season Loggers!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 22, 2007, 08:46:43 pm
I always have felt that Foster was crucial to that team, but 1st team crucial was the question.  The make-up of the team showed that the totem pole went from little 22, to Krauel, to Marsh, so on, so forth.  Therefore, their touches increased in more important times, when those it should have probably have gone to Foster.  First team doesn't always mean stats.  It is the importance of that player to his team added into the stats. 

Last night, Foster, with no plays run for him, went to work and kept them in the game when it got dicey.  When ALL others were ineffective, he manned up and went to work.  Stats don't show it, but he put put fouls on guys, made tough plays, and showed why he is a first teamer.


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 23, 2007, 05:14:33 am
sager,
            my 22 wins comment was based on the fact that you only play about 25-26 games before playoffs which would mean a good winning percentage.  And as for all the travel talk I hop whatever happens saturday WW gets sent to mexico to play againts the mexican national team while oxy has to play the canadians, then assuming they both win, they can play eachother.

Don't set your sights so low. Hope for the Belize regional for your Pirates.

I agree with OxyBob that we in the West get screwed...didn't UPS make enough of a run last year in the tourney to garner us some respect?  But then again it would cost the NCAA way too much money to fly the midwest teams to so-cal or spokane...and we all now the NCAA can't stand to lose a few thousand dollars, their whole organization would crumble.

As much as I enjoy reading all the paranoid rumblings that emanate from the left-coasters every year around this time, it's not as simple as being a matter of "respect" or lack thereof. The five primary criteria listed in the D3 men's basketball championship handbook that are used for selection and seeding purposes do not include "respect" among them. Those criteria are:

* regional winning percentage
* regional Quality of Wins Index
* in-region record against ranked teams
* in-region record head-to-head
* in-region record against common opponents

According to those criteria, Oxy is currently fifth in the West Region and Whitworth is currently sixth. That's a recipe for some fairly low seeding for both teams. Even if the Pirates join the Tigers in the D3 tourney field, neither will be seeded high enough to merit hosting a secondary-round game or games.

Of course, seeds don't always matter where the West Coast teams are concerned, and, yes, that's a matter of geography. Geography does trump seeding -- the handbook even admits that -- but this year it's a moot point. While it's easy to grumble about the NCAA not being amenable to incur the extra expense of flying multiple midwestern teams to NWC or SCIAC venues, keep in mind that the D3 tournament is a money-loser for the NCAA. Like just about everything else the NCAA sponsors, our tournament is funded by the D1 tourney, which is the NCAA's big cash cow. As the old saying goes, beggars can't be choosers.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: cawcdad on February 23, 2007, 09:27:19 am
. . ., keep in mind that the D3 tournament is a money-loser for the NCAA. Like just about everything else the NCAA sponsors, our tournament is funded by the D1 tourney, which is the NCAA's big cash cow. As the old saying goes, beggars can't be choosers.
And to that end, I have tickets to the first two rounds of the D-I tournament in order to help out D-III playoffs. :D And yes I know, most of the money comes from television.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 23, 2007, 01:50:44 pm
sager,
           Thanks for the info on what exactly goes into the process besides QOWI.    I think d3 needs to do something about trying to be like d1.  We should have more scandals and plant "mushrooms" in our players' cars.  I think the extra attention will get the ball rolling ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 23, 2007, 07:10:41 pm
Bucs77 - I saw your comment on the SCIAC site about Wecker & you're right, he's a great coach.  He's also the Co-Coach of the Pirates, not an Assistant.  Thought someone should update you on that -- it happened last year or the year before, I believe.

By the way, I agree with you that the NWC gets ripped on the strength of schedule thing.  Not sure what can change to improve things, but someone should figure it out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 23, 2007, 10:50:40 pm
Whitworth should be ranked 16th still correct?    Just wondering why when you go to the scoreboard for saturday  they are not in with the ranked teams above all of the others
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 24, 2007, 01:50:54 pm
As much as I enjoy reading all the paranoid rumblings that emanate from the left-coasters every year around this time, it's not as simple as being a matter of "respect" or lack thereof. The five primary criteria listed in the D3 men's basketball championship handbook that are used for selection and seeding purposes do not include "respect" among them. Those criteria are:

* regional winning percentage
* regional Quality of Wins Index
* in-region record against ranked teams
* in-region record head-to-head
* in-region record against common opponents

According to those criteria, Oxy is currently fifth in the West Region and Whitworth is currently sixth. That's a recipe for some fairly low seeding for both teams. Even if the Pirates join the Tigers in the D3 tourney field, neither will be seeded high enough to merit hosting a secondary-round game or games.

Sager fails to mention that respect is the 1st of 10 secondary criteria. lol  ;D :D ;).  Obviously, I'm kidding.

Whitworth should be ranked 16th still correct?    Just wondering why when you go to the scoreboard for saturday  they are not in with the ranked teams above all of the others

Yeah, it's not a perfect system.  Have no worries, though the NCAA doesn't care that Whitworth is 16th in the d3hoops.com poll!  :P
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 24, 2007, 09:34:35 pm
Whitworth is in!  The Bucs beat LC 69-62.  Jon Young had a great game.  Perfect from the free throw line which was big at the end of the game as it turned a two possesion game into a three possesion game with about 40 seconds left.  He also came up big from beyond the arc when he needed to.  LC did a great job of crashing the boards on the offensive side which is really what kept them in the game in the first half.  That midseason stretch of not having Jones hurt Whitworth but the healthy Whitworth team is the best in the conference and will hopefully represent the NWC well in the tourney.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 25, 2007, 01:23:15 am
My Pirates played some great D in the second half and held back a strong challenge from LC.  Great season for LC and they must be thinking next year looks very good, plus the hunger from losing tonight will be with them.

Young has been playing as good as he has ever played and just in time.  Williams continued my favorite stat of 0 fouls.  Symes opening dunk was huge.  Great job by the WW coaches to help turn up the D in the 2nd half and stifle LC shooters.  WW fans were pumped and that
FT % by LC goes straight to the 6th man!!  Great support Spokane.

As for the Tourney...5 criteria between Oxy and WW.  1,  head to head doesn't apply, in the next 4 WW leads in 3 of 4.  Come to Spokane Oxy!!  Its warm and sunny, I swear it is, really.

Actually, I think WW goes far no matter what.  They have poise and leadership.  Backcourt seniors = March wins.







Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on February 25, 2007, 01:56:28 am
Again I agree with THAT!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 25, 2007, 03:01:29 am
Great job Whitworth in winning the automatic bid.  LC really did give them a run for their money.  I don't care what team you were cheering for, if you love basketball, you had to appreciate that final shot by LC's Joey Toboni from the other side of the court for a 3!  Made a 10 pt lead only 7, but wow, I don't think I've ever seen a cooler shot!   If their 3 point shots had been working like that all night, we'd be talking about a different outcome.  It's a shame that one of these teams had to be eliminated because they're both quite good.

LC will be a tough team next year -- they were this year without a single senior on their team.   They were really fun to watch this year & a serious threat to many teams.  Congrats on a great season!

At the risk of lowering my Karma even further, I just have to say that I think the NWC is under rated by other parts of the country that don't get to see our games.   So, here's to negative karma, just because I think WW can beat Oxy or other teams from those glorious midwest states that have such great travel accessibility and amenities.

And, as a side note, I can't believe anyone views the Pacific NW as nowhere!  You must be nuts!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2007, 04:50:26 am
And, as a side note, I can't believe anyone views the Pacific NW as nowhere!  You must be nuts!

It's not a matter of viewing the region itself as nowhere. It's more a matter of the Northwest Conference not having any D3 neighbors to the east until you cross the Minnesota-North Dakota border.

Don't let paranoia lead you to believe that geographical isolation equals disdain and dismissal in the minds of the rest of the country. It isn't true in terms of our society in general (everyone in the country is well aware of the prominence of Seattle and Portland within American culture), and it isn't true in terms of D3; everyone who has seen the NWC's tourney teams over the course of this decade has been impressed by them. I was impressed by those L&C teams earlier in the decade, and I know that the UWSP and Illinois Wesleyan fans were impressed by the UPS teams of the past few seasons.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2007, 01:59:28 pm
Thank you for the kind words about the NWC Sager.

The brackets are out.  Whitworth is playing at Washington U. against DePauw (this friday).  On saturday Whitworth (assuming they win friday) will play the winner of Washington U. and Fontbonne.  If all goes well for the first two rounds they will run into UW-Stevens point in the 3rd round (sweet 16)...yay.  Don't know much about DePauw other than they're from Indiana...guess its time to do a little research.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 26, 2007, 02:49:59 pm
I don't think it's paranoia, Sager.  I think there's plenty of evidence to support the idea that men's teams in the West, particularly the NWC don't get the respect they deserve.  (One exception is Linfield football.) The Women's committee picked George Fox as a 1st round site.  And UPS women hosted soccer this year.  Ask the teams from Abilene, TX if that's geographically in sync.  It just ain't about geography!!

There's a lot of whining on other boards about teams that didn't get into Pool C.  Does anyone have a good reason why Guilford (51) is in and Lewis & Clark (50) isn't?  If we're using the numbers & ranking argument, it seems that they should have gotten a Pool C bid, at least over Guilford.

Go BUCS!  You're looking really good!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 26, 2007, 02:52:54 pm
Congrats to the Bucs for making the tourney! I hope they make some noise for the NWC!

 Looks like we were all waaaaaaaaaay off with our predictions, instead of playing the SCIAC/Occidental like normal WW will be shipped out to play Depauw.  I think that's a positive, it allows both teams from the west(coast) to match up against other teams from around the country instead of playing each other and automatically eliminating one west(coast) representative early on.  However, for what it is worth, WW appears to have a much easier path than Occidental.  Good luck to both teams.  

Anyone have thoughts on the All NWC teams?  I'm a little shocked with some of the picks!  5 guys from UPS made a team...not that I'm complaining...I think that's great, they are all deserving I'm just a little suprised.  Also three WW first teamers? I'm all for BWillimas as POY(best player on the #1 team should get it) but I don't know about Symes AND JJ on the first team?   I'm glad to see Born's team record didn't hurt his individual status, he had a great year and deserves first team.  Obviously this is all debatable, just throwing some opinions out there.

I probably won't be posting too much anymore now that the Loggers are out of the equation, I'll be lurking though, I'm already looking forward to next year...and the UPS RE-takeover ;D!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 26, 2007, 03:04:56 pm
I agree with you UPSoundLogs about the All NWC team.  Seems like some really great players got left out.  I'm sure UPS & Whitworth are happy, but maybe at the expense of other guys who deserve to be there.  The All Conference team should be about individual stats, not how the team did.  Every year someone gets left out.

Really happy about B Williams as POY -- he's a true team player.  He recently received an award for 1000 points & 500 assists!  Wow!

And, if Hayford is Coach of the Year, does that include Wecker?  They're co-coaches!  I don't think Whitworth would be where they are without both of them!  Congrats!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2007, 05:58:21 pm
Quote
The All Conference team should be about individual stats, not how the team did.

The problem here is that it is your opinion, and every coach/SID/anyone who votes for all-conference, all-region, all-etc. has a different view on what qualifies someone as a first or second teamer.  Many people like bbaddict will say go purely off of stats, of course that would make born the POY, while others will argue that you have to look at where the top teams would be without certain players (I think thats how Symes and JJ got to be first teamers.  Look at WW w/ and w/0 JJ.  They never lost a game when he was healthy and dropped two to UPS and one to LC while he was out or just coming off of an injury.  Some voters will say that he is the second best player on the best team and that means he ought to be a first teamer (and he was obviously a very valuable peice to the best team in the conference).  Symes led Whitworth in scoring with 376 points...he scored the most points on the best team in the conference, some would argue that that qualifies as a first teamer.  I guess what I'm getting at is that we could pull out all of the statistics, logic, and reasoning and still not have a clear-cut 6 top players in the league (counting POY).  I personally would have kept Symes on the team and dropped JJ because he did get injured and had to sit out a few games...the only problem is I don't know who I'd replace him with.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 26, 2007, 06:31:12 pm
Overall, I think that the All NWC squads came out suprisingly well.  There was a lot of fairly even talent in the league this year and I believe there are several players that could actually  be interchangable on these teams.  When the talent is pretty close it comes down to team record, which obviously(with the exception of Born) ruled in this years picks.  I think the main thing is that the POY should always be the best player from the best team in league...something that has not been done correctly for the last several years.  Example: Pecht from 2nd place WW over Curtiss(all american) from the NWC champ and elite eight team...big time mistake... and Curtiss showed why in the NWC tourney championship with 28pts/14rbs/8assts(I don't mean to live in the past, just to prove a point).   

As for this year, COY should really have been the LC coach.  I think COY should be about a coach that is able to overacheive with the talent that he has and bring a team that was supposed to be bad/mediocre into the elite...just like LC.  Not taking anything away from WW, but they were expected to do well and had superior talent. 

In regards to the players this year, I don' think there are any major dissapointments...I think Faidley could have been higher(team record hurt him), Symes lower(first place team though), Krauel higher(already a lot of UPS representatives=no more room), and Bergerren lower(good team record helped).  Not a whole lot to complain about though in my opinion. 

Also, I don't agree with bbaddict that All conference picks should be all about stats.  Unless someone has overpowering statistics(Born) I think team success should weigh heavily.   

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 26, 2007, 06:45:43 pm
Quote
Also, I don't agree with bbaddict that All conference picks should be all about stats.  Unless someone has overpowering statistics(Born) I think team success should weigh heavily

Case-in-point about what I said in my last post.

Quote
As for this year, COY should really have been the LC coach.  I think COY should be about a coach that is able to overacheive with the talent that he has and bring a team that was supposed to be bad/mediocre into the elite...just like LC.  Not taking anything away from WW, but they were expected to do well and had superior talent.

I agree with this.  The only reason I would now say Hayford was the right choice is that he is taking his team to the national tourney after outcoaching the LC coach last saturday...hindsight is always 20/20.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 26, 2007, 07:51:04 pm
If you watched the game Saturday, I don't think you can say Hayford out coached Gaillard.  9-22 from the freethrow line might be considered out coaching since if Hayford put the players on the line on purpose.  The game wasn't played particularly too well from either side.  it looked like LC got the shots they wanted, and got to the line when needed.  When you get 15 offensive rebounds leading to freethrows, you gotta be happy.  You can't make the freethrows for the players, though.

WW made plays when they needed them.  But, it wasn't a superior coaching job that got them there.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldnwcer on February 26, 2007, 08:05:05 pm
(509)rat, I have to agree with bigfella, LC got what they wanted out of their offense, they just couldn't make a shot or a free throw.   Not to take anything away from Hayford.  He did a great job this year and it looks like they got a great draw in St Louis, but Gaillard did a lot more with a lot less, I think.  Good Luck Bucs!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2007, 12:11:24 am
LC shot just over 40% from the free throw line...which is bad...but they only shot 60% as a team on the season.  My point is that they are a bad free-throw shooting team to begin with so I don't think the fact that they shot poorly from the free throw line has anything to do with the outcome of this game.  In fact, if they shoot what they've shot all year they still lose the game by 3 points despite the miraculous shot by taboni at the end of the game.  In my opinion LC did not get the shots they wanted.  Everything was contested...Tillery's slashing to the basket followed by a kick out for a wide open three was not open once.  In fact, when tillery drove to the basket Whitworth did a great job of helping the guard and rotating down to cover up the low post guy that Tillery was looking for.  Everything LC shot was contested.  Did you notice the matchup problems Whitworth was having with Rivera when the starter Hasenfus was gaurding him???  That's exactly what LC wanted too...its just too bad that Whitworth subbed in Willamsen and Jurich to slow him down.  I don't think that LC's shooting woes (other than the free throws) had nearly as much to do with just poor shooting (berggren, robinowitz, and toboni were hitting everything they threw up during warmups and at the end of halftime) as it did with the fact every three-pointer LC took had a Whitworth hand/body, thrown up in its path.  The only ones that went uncontested were Tillery's but he didn't even want to take them.  Anyways, I don't think you guys are giving enough credit to Whitworth's coaches, weck included.  Like I said, even with the free throws, LC would not have won this game...Whitworth was much more efficient, and since they've lead the league and ben tops in the nation in offensive efficiency I'm starting to think this isn't just a coincidence.  Rather it is the system Hayford has in place.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: sciacguru on February 27, 2007, 12:21:43 am
Just a side note for you Pirate fans.  I am sure the phone for the Asst Coach at CLU was ringing off the hook today as he is a Depauw alumnus.  I dont think you guys are too worried with big wins over CLU the past few years.  But I am sure Depauw is getting some detailed info.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 27, 2007, 01:11:15 am
Congrats to WW on their win.  It is was a well deserved win Saturday.  And, it is good that WW has great fans with a greater bias.  The points on LC's freethrow and FG shooting are moot, for it matters not if a player hits every shot in warm-ups or no shots in warm-ups.  The game still has to be played.  Anyone that has played will attest to that.  The LC team looked like a team that played Wednesday against a good team.  Hayford is a great coach and he deserves COY honors.  My point was not to say that Hayford didn't do a good job, as he did a great job.  But, he did not out coach anyone.  There weren't any great coaching moves to stop anyone.  hapenfuss got subbed out because LC put quick fouls on him, not because Hayford saw a great missmatch out there.  There weren't any new tweaks that were put in for this game.  WW played that same defenses and had the same match-ups.  The kids decided that game.  The seniors showed that they were seniors.  And, I loved watching it.   

We can break the game down in pieces, but it doesn't matter.  The better team won on that night.  Let's hope they represent our league well, which I know they will. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 27, 2007, 01:38:01 am
You're right big fella.  It was a close game, that ultimately was won by the seniors.  Whitworth played better defense than I've seen them play and LC didn't connect as well as usual.  Seemed like they tried too many 3's when they should've set up more shots (7-34 for 3 pointers).  It really seemed like anyone's BB game until the last 2 minutes.  In fact, the WW crowd was pretty quiet at times -- the smaller LC crowd was pretty noisy in the fieldhouse! 

I'm just sorry that LC didn't get an At Large bid because they're really good & their season shouldn't be over.  Sounds to me like UPSoundlogs was implying that the LC team was bad/mediocre and only got where they were with good coaching.  There's a lot of talent on that team and if anyone should know that, the UPS fans should, because they beat you twice this season.  Using Soundlogs' logic, Hayford's the better coach, because his team (who didn't beat UPS at all) won out.

And just to set the record straight -- I never said that All Conference spots should be "ALL" about individual stats, just that sometimes players get overlooked because they aren't on the top teams.  I think that's unfortunate, but it's probably always going to be that way.

As for Whitworth getting an easier path than Oxy -- what about UW-Stevens Point?  Again, UPS should know all about that team!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2007, 05:02:39 am
I don't think it's paranoia, Sager.  I think there's plenty of evidence to support the idea that men's teams in the West, particularly the NWC don't get the respect they deserve.  (One exception is Linfield football.) The Women's committee picked George Fox as a 1st round site.  And UPS women hosted soccer this year.  Ask the teams from Abilene, TX if that's geographically in sync.  It just ain't about geography!!

Unfortunately, bbaddict, it's mostly about geography. It evens says as much in the D3 men's basketball handbook. On page 17 it specifically states, "geographical proximity may take precedence over seeding." So, yes, once you know that the D3 tournament is all about saving travel money first and foremost, it is paranoia to blame the lack of NWC hosting opportunities upon a lack of respect.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 27, 2007, 12:03:33 pm
Ok,Ok,Ok...looks like we have some word bending from bbaddict here that needs clearing up >:(. 

"Sounds to me like UPSoundlogs was implying that the LC team was bad/mediocre and only got where they were with good coaching.  There's a lot of talent on that team and if anyone should know that, the UPS fans should, because they beat you twice this season.  Using Soundlogs' logic, Hayford's the better coach, because his team (who didn't beat UPS at all) won out. "  - bbaddict

Whoa...I think you've confused yourself.  Rather than argue this point into the ground, I will simply state, rather than "imply," what I truly think. 

I think LC is a very good team this year, as I have said many times throughout the season.  They had a great year and deserve recognition.  However, In the pre-season coaches poll they were picked 4th...to me that equals mediocre!  Their record from last year was 11-14...to me that equals bad.  HENCE my bad/mediocre comment.  So...for this year I strongly feel that LC's coach did a more impressive coaching job than WW's because he took a "supposed" bad/mediocre team and brought them to an elite level .  WW has a great team and coach, but in my opinion COTY goes to LC.   

Also you said...

"The All Conference team should be about individual stats, not how the team did." -bbaddict

If you post a statement like this, it would seem that you think individual stats take the cake when considering all conference.  As I am not able to read your mind, I can't tell that you didn't really mean what you posted...for this reason I said earlier that I desagree with you.  But since you set the record straight...

"And just to set the record straight -- I never said that All Conference spots should be "ALL" about individual stats" - bbaddict (to me that is exactly the opposite of your previous post)???

...then I guess we are in agreement :D. 

GO WW(NWC)!!!


Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 27, 2007, 01:03:04 pm
The criteria for all-conference teams have baffled me for years.  It should be stats and importance to team, but some coaches pick players who they like.  And, they pass up on players who they don't like.  Everyone can have an argument, but in truth, the players know who put in work and who didn't.

One last point on WW, though.  They can play against fast teams and slow teams because of their size and strength plus athleticism.  They are made for the Tourny.  They are going to give whoever they play fits because of the way they play on offense.  They are well coached as evident by the COY honor(just kidding, please no more two page posts)..... This team can make a good run.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2007, 02:08:34 pm
Bigfella, it was a fun game to watch last Saturday.  Even as a Pirate fan, I felt bad for L&C on all the missed free throws.  I could see the frustration on the staff's faces as they misses continued to mount...

But you guys have built yourself a potential powerhouse.  With the changes that have come in the administration at L&C, I think we'll see a return to the days of L&C being a continual favorite in the league (I remember your days as a dominator of the NWC Bigfella!)

And I agree with your analysis of the Bucs.  They will present match up problems for whoever they play.  If they can keep up the defensive intensity, and execute their offense - they've got a real shot to win some games.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2007, 03:06:32 pm
LC took 34 3-pointers, and I agree with addict that this appeared to be more than they wanted to.  Plus they only average around 27 3 pointers per game, which is a lot but no where near 34...bad coaching.  The LC coached looked very frustrated throughout the game and both he and the assistant yelled at players for not following their instructions after a timeout.  If you cant get your players to stick to your gameplan...bad coaching.

Whitworth played a man defense against LC for the first time this season...They wouldn't do it against UPS and it hurt them, just as that 1-2-2 or 3-2 (whatever you want to call it) zone they ran down at LC hurt them.  I would constitute switching your defense up from the last game with an opponent, and putting in a few wrinkles to defend the one thing you think they can hurt you with when you do go man (Tillery's quickness and their ability to get open looks around the perimeter), plus having a different outcome in the game against said opponent is a good coaching move.  Not one 3 pointer (other than Tillery's which they gave him) went uncontested...has Whitworth been able to do that against UPS or LC this season???  No, they haven't...and don't play this one off as the players playing well, you can only do so much if your coach hasn't developed a scheme to make that happen.

I do however, agree with bigfella that Whitworth is great looking tourney team.  Hasenfus can bang around with big men, and willemsen and Jurich can guard teams with  out a ture post player.  They can score from anywhere on the court and they play smart basketball for the most part.  They are a fundamentally sound team (thanks to their coach), and they have already proven they can travel halfway accross the country and beat a good team on their home court.  
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2007, 03:14:41 pm
SCIACguru -

"Just a side note for you Pirate fans.  I am sure the phone for the Asst Coach at CLU was ringing off the hook today as he is a Depauw alumnus.  I dont think you guys are too worried with big wins over CLU the past few years.  But I am sure Depauw is getting some detailed info."

The basketball coaching fraternity is so inbred, every staff has somebody they can contact for information on virtually any team anywhere.  The Whitworth staff has close contacts with Trinity - which is in the same league as DePauw, so I am sure Hayford is getting a good scouting report on DePauw as well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 27, 2007, 03:18:51 pm
509 -

I think your assessment is oversimplified.  There was no "Bad Coaching" in Saturday's game.  In fact, as a guys whose seen almost 20 years of basketball in this league, I can say without question that Gaillard is one of the best in the history of the conference.

Also, Whitworth did run some man to man defense in the loss at L&C.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Sabretooth Tiger on February 27, 2007, 03:57:13 pm
Originally posted on the SCIAC board, thought you all might appreciate this info in case you're not visiting SoCal too much:  ;)

It looks like Amir Mazarei (Redlands), Sam Betty (Oxy) and Brian Williams (Whitworth) are in the hunt for an invitation to the 2007 College Basketball Invitational for top seniors from NCAA Div. II, III and the NAIA to be held in April.

Here's the web link for more information:

http://www.mccarthysports.com/player_list.html

Congrats and good luck to these fine DIII left coasters.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2007, 04:53:08 pm
Quote
Also, Whitworth did run some man to man defense in the loss at L&C.

I don't remember any man to man in that game, but I believe you that they did...the key word in your post though is "some".  It didn't work in the last game and Hayford made adjustments.  I also don't think LC was ready for a Whitworth team with a healthy JJ.  They also didn't do nearly as good of a job getting someone in Jon Youngs face.  I believe that Gaillard is a good coach and one of the top in the conference, but after saturday's game I felt like Hayford did a better job.  LC could have won that game if they would have done a few things differently and those things can be attributed to coaching.

Anyways, thanks a lot Tooth for the info on those guys, and best of luck to Occidental in the tourney...represent the west coast well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 27, 2007, 05:26:50 pm
Whitworth ran a man defense in every game LC played this year.  And, it wasn't some, but most in the games at LC and Saturday.  The zone was ridiculous and I agree that a coach should abandon a defense that didn't work.  If a team takes 27 threes per game, it is actually easy for them to shoot 34.  Especially if you are down at the end, hence trying to catch up.  The thing I love about coaching is the different styles.  Everyone has different ways to approaching the game and how they teach it.  If Gaillard did such a bad job of coaching, then it should have been a 20 point game then.  Hey, you were at home waiting and didn't play on Wednesday.  Don't get it twisted.  If you have the player of the year, three first teamers, and the coach of the year, it shouldn't have been a game.  In fact, how did WW lose a game this year?  I feel sorry for the players since they get no credit for winning the game.  If you have played in a game like that, I think you woould see it otherwise.  It was a good game with two contrasting styles of play.  Fun to watch and good for our conference.  The way you(rat) look at it is you opinion, but I hope you are not a coach.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 27, 2007, 05:40:41 pm
And, Jon Young hit big shots.  The those guys were draped on him.  But, we can't give him credit for showing up big. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 27, 2007, 08:30:36 pm
Appearently bigfella didn't watch or listen to any of the UPS v. WW or LC v. WW.  Then he would have known that Whitworth stayed in that zone they play pretty much the entire game against UPS (both times) and although less often, most of the second LC game.  That's Hayford's system though...make them beat you with the three ball, and play very effieciently on offense (only take high percentage shots and open threes).  The problem is, is that those teams beat them with the three.  Hayford adjusted based on what LC did in the past.  The pirates tightened up their defense and defended all the out to a few feet past the three point line.  At times it seemed almost like a matchup zone when there was dribble penetration by a guard and the Whitworth players rotated beautiffuly to defend to kick out pass.  What did LC do differently when their MO wasn't working?  What adjustments did they make to counteract Whitworth's?  I didn't really see any, especially in the last 4-5 minutes when they really needed to.  Jon Young did have a good game...he did exactly what they needed him to, hit a few threes and make all of his free-throws.  Whitworth played well, but just like in football, more often than not its the coach who is calling the plays.  bigfella also forgets that a certain first team player was sitting out for the pirates for two of those three losses, and was fresh off of a broken hand for the last one.  And I have played in games where the conference championship is concerned here at Whitworth and I give credit where credit is due...and most of the time it goes first and foremost to your coach for putting you in a position to outperform the other team and win the game.  But being an LC fan (and judging by your articulate posts a fairly young one), I guess you aren't used to that are you?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on February 28, 2007, 10:19:15 am
Rat,

FYI...I might be wrong...but if the bigfella is who I think he is, he's been on the good end of a lot of wins. 

You are correct though, atleast when WW played UPS the time that I watched, they were in that lame matchup zone most of the game.  It's effective but boring as hell!!!  But hey, I'm used to watching madness so what do I know ;)?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: David Collinge on February 28, 2007, 11:37:13 am
I saw this posted in the SCAC room.  I thought you might like to see it, to see that there is respect for the NWC out there:

Well, when this DePauw team plays at their best, there aren't many folks that beat 'em.  If Schott & McDonald can get rolling, Moore, Sakel, and Werentz can hit a few 3's, and they don't turn it over, they're going to have an awfully good shot at Whitworth.  I gather the NWC is a pretty good conference, and to get out of it on top is a darned good day at the office.

Good luck to Whitworth in St. Louis.  :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on February 28, 2007, 03:25:36 pm
Only was speaking of when LC played WW.  I can't speak on UPS games against WW.  Those were good games, though, I bet.  but, WW played majority of man in the last two games against LC.  I wasn't in the huddle for either team, so I can't say what either team did (WW and LC) for adjustments.  From watching, though, it looked like both teams worked at making the correct changes to try to win the game.  It was a great game.

"And I have played in games where the conference championship is concerned here at Whitworth and I give credit where credit is due...and most of the time it goes first and foremost to your coach for putting you in a position to outperform the other team and win the game."

I have never played for or spoken to a coach who would take credit for a game like Saturday's, where the players made big plays.  But, it is only opinion.  I am not trying to say you are wrong, it is only contrasting thoughts.  The coach puts you in the position, but the players make plays(again just my opinion).  Hayford didn't coach Williams to put his head down and get the and-ones that he did.  The player made that play.  That is why he was MVP.  You can't script those plays.  Jon Young pulling up from 26 wasn't scripted.  Just a kid making plays in a big game.  Give the kids credit fella.  And, no need to get personal.  If I wrote something that was viewed as personal, I apologize.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Tuxguy on February 28, 2007, 05:11:45 pm

Coach Bigfella,

Interesting reading your posts. Thanks for your perspective, and nice job with the Pios this year. Must be nice to have the administration backing the sports at L&C again. They finally realized that  Athletics are a big part of College Life.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on February 28, 2007, 06:49:00 pm
If coach's don't play an important role in winning basketball games then Bob Knight wouldn't have as many wins as he does He hasn't had the type of talent throughout is career as Krzyzewski or dean smith had at UNC, yet he's won more games than both.  WSU would not be vying for a conference championship if it weren't for Tony Bennett.  Whitworth's players outperformed LC on saturday, but I still claim that Hayford put his players in a better position to win than LC's coach.  And if you've done that, in my opinion you've outcaoched the guy on the other bench.

And OxyBob, those quotes are from baseball managers...managers, not coaches.  I don't think anyone will argue with you that they do nothing but manage their team.  They don't actually do a whole lot of coaching, if they ever do any at all.  If those quotes were intended for humor like your sound waves, then sorry, that one flew right over my head.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on February 28, 2007, 07:45:38 pm
Rat -

I think the part of this Coach of the Year discussion that is making me uncomfortable and bringing bigfella back is how you were putting down another coach to make the case for Hayford.  I don't think that was necessary.

Now, you could argue that a coach who brings his team through the gauntlet of being a favorite and still wins, deserves the award.  You could argue that doing that is harder than coaching a team that not much is expected of, because everyone is out to knock you off from the start.

You can't really argue that a coach deserves the award or not based on one game, especially when the game in question occured after the award was announced.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldnwcer on February 28, 2007, 08:09:09 pm
Hey ratboy, let it rest.  You have probably aggravated enough people for now.

By the way, John Wooden always said the best coach is the coach with the best players.   But what does he know?

Who can tell me which teams in the last 15 years in the conference have the most NAIA and NCAA national tourney appearances?   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on February 28, 2007, 09:36:08 pm
For the most tourney appearances in the last 15 years, I'm going to guess:  Lewis & Clark, Willamette & Whitworth?

Am I close?   I think UPS & Linfield have a few in there, too, but not as many as the big 3.  I could be wrong -- have been before! : ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 01, 2007, 02:24:36 am
Ok, I'm done with the coach thing.

DePauw runs Dean Smith's "secondary break" (Roy Williams ran it at Kansas and now at UNC) that is becoming more and more popular in college hoops.  Want to know how it works.  Look no further than the current SI article about how UNC is using it to their advantage.  If you have the magazine they actually diagram the thing.  From what I understand all it is, is a set play that they run when they don't have numbers on a fast break.  Or they don't have a true fast break so they use this as a quick hitter.  The only thing is that their big guy has to run in transition to catch up, no jogging down the court to set something else up.  But then again, thats just what I gathered out of it...I'm sure someone can explain it better than myself.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/grant_wahl/02/19/carolina0226/index.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/grant_wahl/02/19/carolina0226/index.html)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 01, 2007, 11:53:37 am
Tuxguy -

No coaching in me.  just lots of playing.  LC looks like it is going in the right direction, but time will tell.  The league as a whole looks good.  Fresh new blood in the coaching ranks and solid line-ups.  I was scared, though, because the SCIAC is starting to creep up on the NWC.

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: DPU3619 on March 01, 2007, 03:37:37 pm
DePauw runs Dean Smith's "secondary break" (Roy Williams ran it at Kansas and now at UNC) that is becoming more and more popular in college hoops. 

First, I'm no coach (intramurals aside.. 1-3-1 trapping zone ALL the time), but here's what I think this system gives you.

1) Fast break opportunities (duh).  It's likely that your opponent won't get all five guys back defensively 100% of the time.  You mentioned that the bigs have to get out and run.  That's true and DePauw does it really well.  The 3 bigs in the regular rotation are all very well conditioned and run the floor with ease.  These opporunities grow when the opposition has bigs who aren't in that good of shape and can't get up and down the floor with Schott, McDonald, and Oilar. 

2) Mismatches.  Off of missed buckets and free throws by the opposition, the first two or three seconds of a possession are a bit chaotic as the defense tries to get into their set.  I think it's a little bit similar to getting an offensive rebound.  The defense is trying to get reset, and it leads to a few open threes or a situation of a guard trying to defend a post player.

You need great point guards who can push the ball for the system to be effective.  DePauw's got two of 'em.  Unsure of whether or not back up PG Tony James will play or not.  He's been bothered by a hamstring most of the season which he re-injured on Saturday.

DePauw is certainly going to get out and run.  The question is whether or not they can make shots.  DePauw hits on all cylinders when they make 3's.  When they dont, well, they don't.  They hovered around 50% from the floor and 40% from 3 for a good portion of the season.  Those numbers are 47.5 and 38.5 currently.

They shot 26% from the floor and 9% (!) from 3 in a 30 point blowout loss at conference champ Centre.  Attempted 30 3's and shot only 23% from out there in a 7 point loss @ Sewanee.  30% from 3 and 63% from the stripe in an OT loss to Hamilton over Christmas.  Only made 33% from 3 at tourney bound Chicago on opening weekend.  The lone exception is Saturday's game against Trinity.  DePauw shot it very well, but TU attempted 21 more free throws and DePauw uncharacteristically turned it over 19 times.

So there you go.  Something for you kids to look for if you're making the trip to the StL.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 01, 2007, 03:52:02 pm
It seems to me with a guy like Austin Brown, Whitworth will get back on D, pack it in with one of their semi-matchup zone defenses, and give DePauw the 3 ball.  You can expect Whitworth to shoot over 50% from the floor...they have pretty much all season.  If all of this is true then it sounds like its gonna come down to whether DePauw is hitting their shots from the perimeter.  Thatnks for the insight DPU, that was a great post coach or not...now what about those fat girls that got kicked out of the sorority?  ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 01, 2007, 04:56:25 pm
We're collecting previews for each team in the tourney on one of the multiregional boards. If I get them by friday I may even be able to stick them in one document for people. Could someone do one for Whitworth?

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5147.0
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2007, 04:50:40 am
It seems to me with a guy like Austin Brown, Whitworth will get back on D, pack it in with one of their semi-matchup zone defenses, and give DePauw the 3 ball.  You can expect Whitworth to shoot over 50% from the floor...they have pretty much all season.  If all of this is true then it sounds like its gonna come down to whether DePauw is hitting their shots from the perimeter.  Thatnks for the insight DPU, that was a great post coach or not...now what about those fat girls that got kicked out of the sorority?  ;)

You read about that, too, eh? I've been wondering when someone was going to drop the sorority purge scandal into the middle of a DePauw discussion.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: DPU3619 on March 02, 2007, 11:11:31 am
now what about those fat girls that got kicked out of the sorority?  ;)

You read about that, too, eh? I've been wondering when someone was going to drop the sorority purge scandal into the middle of a DePauw discussion.

Yeah.. thanks for bringing that one up, team.  Problem is that we've been hearing about it since December.  You've been hearing about it for about 3 days now. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 12:46:50 pm
We're collecting previews for each team in the tourney on one of the multiregional boards. If I get them by friday I may even be able to stick them in one document for people. Could someone do one for Whitworth?

http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5147.0

Guys please? We have around 2/3 of the schools posting previews, and it just won't be the same without all the fellow left coasters present. Represent! ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2007, 03:12:46 pm
If no one else steps up, I'll try.  Could you email me what you want included?  Never done this before.
Or if there's someone better to do it, please do.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 04:10:53 pm
Thank you! Just a little about the key players, the style they play, their key wins (Wheaton obviously! LOL! ;) ) and losses... if you go over to that board there are tons of examples of really different ones. If, in the future, I every have the time and resources to get a more formalized format going, we can do one, now it's just a chance to let people around the nation know a little about this Whitworth team they see in their DIII brackets. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2007, 04:14:55 pm
OK -- it's posted.  What I did was copy one that was already on there & for the scouting report, I robbed the Whitworth site.   (Credited them, of course.)  Didn't want anyone jumping on me for making my own observations!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 05:06:12 pm
Didn't want anyone jumping on me for making my own observations!
Hey... there's plenty of "my own observations" on there... my fav is the poster who called John Carroll lazy! :D The observations are what make the previews interesting. If you want to add another paragraph in addition to the stuff on the official site, let me know and I'll be happy to do it. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 02, 2007, 08:49:30 pm
Pirates win, 62-59 with a last minute 3 pointer by POY, Bryan Williams!  Pretty low score for an OT game, but it sounds like the teams were pretty well matched.  Great team effort by the Pirates.   3 points or 20 points, a win's a win!  Yay BUCS!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 02, 2007, 09:55:21 pm
Yes bbadict, a win is a win, survive and advance, on to the round of 32.

Good to see our POY make a POY type of play.  Good luck tomorrow Pirates, represent!

Oxy is getting hammerred right now down in Mississippi, their POY is hurt and not playing, looks like the NWC is left to carry the West Coast Flag.  Let's get it done!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 04, 2007, 04:21:06 pm
WW represented the NWC to the fullest.  Great job on a great season.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2007, 04:22:33 am
now what about those fat girls that got kicked out of the sorority?  ;)

You read about that, too, eh? I've been wondering when someone was going to drop the sorority purge scandal into the middle of a DePauw discussion.

Yeah.. thanks for bringing that one up, team.  Problem is that we've been hearing about it since December.  You've been hearing about it for about 3 days now. 

The funny thing is that unpleasant and/or ridiculous stuff like this happens on just about every college campus in America. But when the story hits the wires and goes national (however long after the incident in question took place), it makes it appear that the school in question is in some sort of Bizarro World, when we all really know that Bizarro World = Any College or University in the U.S.A.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 05, 2007, 02:11:19 pm
Just to be fair to DePauw, from what I understand the University had nothing to do with it and is actually looking to fix it by taking actions against the sorority's national office.  Some lady who is one of the big wigs, a pres., vp, or something of the sort, for all of these particular sorority's throughout the nation was the one who came in and did the image/ethnic cleansing.  I was just trying to get under the DePauw posters skin, and Sager is right that this stuff happens everywhere.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 05, 2007, 02:17:00 pm
Congratulations to the Pirates.  They flew half way accross the country, beat a good DePauw team and then gave a very good UWStL all they could handle on their home court.  From what I've heard from the players they didn't beat themselves or "lose" the game by playing poorly...but rather UW just beat them.  No shame in that...in my opinion.  While we all wish they could have gotten that sweet 16 game at UW-Stevens point, I'm proud of the Pirates and think they represented the NWC well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 05, 2007, 02:34:20 pm
Just wanted to say great job to Whitworth!  It looks like they played very well and lost a tough/close game to a very good Washington U. team.  WW represented the NWC nicely this year and continued to gain our conference some national respect. 

And FYI...Don't worry WW, you wouldn't have wanted to travel to Steven's Point anyways...nothing there but frozen arctic tundra and cheese ;) :D!!! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 11:13:25 am
I was just checking out the WIAC message board and this quote from our NWC "COY" is in hot debate...

"[Whitworth head coach Jim] Hayford reserved even harsher words for the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (WIAC), the league in which Stevens Point competes. "Someone needs to tell the Wisconsin schools, 'look around the rest of Division III. Do you see anyone else like you? You probably ought to go in the division that you should be in," said the sixth-year head coach. "The Wisconsin league looks a lot like the rest of the Division II looks like."

...Real Classy!!!

I don't know about the rest of you guys/girls on the NWC board, and I'm not here to point fingers, but I'm not too impressed by this.  I'm not real sure what Hayford was trying to accomplish by saying this, but it seems like he should have been a little more focused on Washington U. and a little less focused on what division the WIAC should compete in.  As a representative for the NWC (Hayford in the national tourney) I think comments like this just make our whole conference look like a bunch of whiners.  I'm not gonna get too in depth about it, just wanted to see if anyone else had an opinion?   
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 06, 2007, 12:07:05 pm
I agree with the first part of your post... it was not an impressive moment.  I really wonder what he was trying to prove by making the statement?

I wonder why he thinks he's an expert on DIII athletics.  He went to an NAIA school for his undergrad, coached at that same school (Azusa Pacific), then coached at U of Sioux Falls (another NAIA school), and coached in some California High schools.

Does he not even realize that the WIAC, as a conference has been D-III longer than the NWC?  And certain members (Whitewater, Platteville) have been dual members for over 25 and 15 years, respectively?

It can't be the size that he's worried about... Wash U's own conference-mate NYU has 17,000 students.  It can't be because the WIAC is public.  There are plenty other public universities in D-III as well.  It can't even be because of the success... conferences like the CCIW have had lots of success on a yearly basis as well (it's called a winning tradition).

I don't think that this speaks negatively on the NWC as much as it does on him, individually.  I mean, there's a possibility that he was misquoted... but if this was the case, then he definately would want his name cleared... I'd expect the paper to run a retraction if it's the case...

It's easy to take pot shots and then run away and hide... I wonder if he'll bother to follow up on his statements on a forum like this?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 12:36:05 pm
PointSpecial,

Thank you for giving some insight from a WIACer point of view.  Again, I have no idea why Hayford would make such a statement.  Obviously the WIAC is a powerhouse conference that has been a roadblock and source of frustration for us here in the NWC, but in my opinion it is no different than the ACC,SEC,Pac10, etc. in D1.  It takes a special team from one of the smaller confences to beat a great team from a power conference.  That's just the way it is!!!  I actually think it is a good thing to have teams like Steven's Point and leagues like the WIAC and CCIW in D3 because it shows the kind of talent small schools(school first) are able to produce.  Plus, it makes success on a national level that much more impressive when a team from a lesser conference beats them. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 06, 2007, 01:09:23 pm
Should Hayford had said what he said when he said it?  No.  That was a dumb move.  And I agree with that part of UPSoundLogs post.  And it does make us sound like whineres,  But is what he said true, and probably a thought that many dIII coaches have?  Yes.  Think of it this way.  What is the biggest problem in recruiting a DII athlete in the NWC?

1.  Money...believe it or not, not everyone can afford $33,000 a year to go to college (the only reason I did was because of just enough scholarships and a sacrifice by taking student loans that could have been avoided at a state school.

2.  Ok, so the money's not an issue for you?  Well then you better have a 3.6 GPA in high school and at least a 1200 on your SATs (out of 1600, I don't know a comparable score on the new one).  Whitworth's incoming freshman class two years ago had an average GPA of 3.7 and an average SAT of 1230 out of 1600.  That was average and I can guarantee that all of the other NWC schools are the same.  Can any of the UW schools or Rowan say that?

3.  great you got in, you've got the money...but now there's at least 4-5 other schools t higher Divisions or competing NAIA that can offer you money and a chance to play...Wisconson doesn't have that.  From what I understand its Madison or DIII.

4.  The budget I'm sure is an issue since the UW schools don't have to rely on donations from alum to maintain facilities and equipment.  But I don't know much info on this topic so I'll leave it at that.

Look.  The WIAC schools have 7,000-9,000 undergrads and cost not much more than $10,000 a year.  Compare that to an enrollment of 2,200 and $33,000.  Now any small private school can be competitive in DIII, I think Mt Union has proved that...but all of the recruiting disadvantages in Division III sports really don't apply to the public schools participating in Division III athletics.  Whitworth has been very competitive on a national level in numerous sports for the last several years, but I can guarantee you that their coaches work very hard and can become very frustrated with the problems they have recruiting year in and year out.

*Note-I am not condoning anything Hayford said...like I said earlier I think it was a dumb move on his part.  All this post is trying to accomplish is to attempt to show you why any DIII coach would say or think something like this.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 01:44:51 pm
Rat,

I completely agree with what you said about money, test scores, gpa, competing schools, etc...and I realize that you also don't agree with what hayford said.  And I also don't want to beat this into the ground because its just one quote from an article...but for the sake of discussion on this quite board...

Take Gonzage for example, they have MANY,MANY,MANY disadvantages(money,tv time, famous alumni, location, and the list goes on and on) to a school like UNC, Duke, Texas, etc.  however, what do they do each and every year?  They play as many big time schools as they possibley can fit into their schedule.  They don't complain that UNC has too big of an advantage and they should become an NBA team(yes I know that's extreme).  They go to play them AT UNC because A) its a great atmosphere B) its a great challenge C)it brings them respect D) They believe that they can beat them!!!  In my opinion that is what college sports are all about. 
It doesn't necessarily take a team full of NBA prospects that has the most money to win. 

So back to D3...I think it is great that a team like UPS/WW/LC, from the NWC, can go take on a team like Wisconsin Stevens Point or Illinios Wesleyan.  Even though UPS is at a disadvantage and may not win, they can compete and have a great experience playing against the best of the best.  It would be much, much, much more boring if the WIAC and CCIW were D2 and we had to play against a bunch of Caltech's in the D3 national tourney. 

That's how I see it anyways. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 06, 2007, 01:58:23 pm
First off, I want to echo what Point Special said about not drawing any sort of conclusion about the NWC from the Whitworth coach. As an ethnic minority and a female sports addict that also loves to bake and other random girly things, I am not too into stereotypes. :D ;)

Secondly, coaches say things out of frustration... I'm really not even willing to make a judgment on the actual person who made the quote either.

I do however, want to state that in a general sense, that such a lack of self control is something you would never want to see in a coach. These guys are entrusted with the sacred responsibility of teaching the game of life through the game of basketball. Teaching your athletes to let their adversities get the better of them (and subsequently act unfairly or unkindly) is hopefully not one of those lessons being taught in any program. I wouldn't wish that kind of coach on anyone... but especially not a DIII college team. Hopefully having discipline in your actions and self control with your words is a central message being taught every day in practice. Any DIII collage coach that doesn't care more about their character and the model it is for the character of their players more than the W-L column and their own convoluted sense of fairness clearly doesn't understand what DIII sports are all about and should probably sit down with the Cal Tech coach for some remedial lessons on how to coach DIII. :) That is why I hope, and heck, assume, that this kind of action isn't the norm for the Whitworth coach. Those kinds of words aren't befitting of a strong program and the high caliber student athletes found at Whitworth.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 06, 2007, 02:38:32 pm
Rat,

I completely agree with what you said about money, test scores, gpa, competing schools, etc...and I realize that you also don't agree with what hayford said.  And I also don't want to beat this into the ground because its just one quote from an article...but for the sake of discussion on this quite board...

Take Gonzage for example, they have MANY,MANY,MANY disadvantages(money,tv time, famous alumni, location, and the list goes on and on) to a school like UNC, Duke, Texas, etc.  however, what do they do each and every year?  They play as many big time schools as they possibley can fit into their schedule.  They don't complain that UNC has too big of an advantage and they should become an NBA team(yes I know that's extreme).  They go to play them AT UNC because A) its a great atmosphere B) its a great challenge C)it brings them respect D) They believe that they can beat them!!!  In my opinion that is what college sports are all about. 
It doesn't necessarily take a team full of NBA prospects that has the most money to win. 

So back to D3...I think it is great that a team like UPS/WW/LC, from the NWC, can go take on a team like Wisconsin Stevens Point or Illinios Wesleyan.  Even though UPS is at a disadvantage and may not win, they can compete and have a great experience playing against the best of the best.  It would be much, much, much more boring if the WIAC and CCIW were D2 and we had to play against a bunch of Caltech's in the D3 national tourney. 

That's how I see it anyways. 

I've never really understood people's arguments that certain conferences/schools "don't belong."  While there may be advantages and disadvantages of going to a public or private school, when it gets right down to it, we're all going after the same goal.  We all need to work hard or get our butts kicked by the competition.  His comments really are an insult to the UWSP players who ARE DIII student-athletes.  The values of DIII are the same values held by the institutions in the WIAC in the same manner that they are in the NWC.  To frankly state that someone doesn't belong is getting far away from the spirit of DIII.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 06, 2007, 02:55:35 pm
I need to completely reject the premises of the Whitworth coach's statements... sorry my fellow left coaster friends. :-\

I applaud the Wisconsin schools for going the DIII route... I wish all schools would be DIII. ;D

However, get this: the CCIW, my conference, went 6-1 against the WIAC this year. They are clearly not unbeatable. But maybe the makeup of the CCIW is really different than the NWC? Well, no, not at all. We are basically all highly selective colleges. If you look at the US News current college rankings for liberal arts colleges, you will find 3 NWC schools, and 3 CCIW schools in the top 100.
 
A cursory glace at the list of member institutions for NAIA and DII shows that there are 15 such institutions in all of Oregon and Washington. There are 4 in Wisconsin. However, there are 11 in Illinois alone. In terms of states that neighbor CCIW schools that are perennial contenders for the CCIW title? Right around the corner from the Chicago area schools is Indiana, which has 14 institutions in DII or NAIA. Iowa, which is right around the corner from Augustana (our two time consecutive CCIW regular season champ, who only lost to Stevens Point by three earlier this year) has 13.

Take Wheaton college, my college, as a case study... just cause it's the one I know best. The average SAT score is 1330, and the average GPA is 3.73. We have an enrollment of about 2300. We have 30+ national merit finalists in our incoming classes every year... and the athletes we recruit are frequently were valedictorians, etc. My brother, who played football at Wheaton, had a 1430 on his SATs (and only took them once without studying for them beforehand). These stories are not uncommon. One of the starters on our basketball team this year posted a 3.93 GPA at Wheaton which earned him an Academic AA nod.  Our tuition is 30,000. We are very selective and expensive, and are smack in the middle of a whole bunch of NAIA and DII schools within an hour or two, yet we have managed to earn votes in the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll over 80 times anyway... but we're a little unique in that we are basically the most selective Christian college in the country and we recruit nationally (although Westmont, a CA NAIA school, does frequently steal recruits not too interested in living in minus temperatures 7 months of the year). :D

Lets try IWU instead then, also in the CCIW, who made it to the Final Four last year after embarrassing the WIAC rep Whitewater that hosting their sectionals (85-71!). IWU is even more expensive than us, and they are ranked very similarly to us. They recruit locally, and succeed at doing so quite dramatically. It would take a long time to list the number of IWU AAs and post season wins, so we won't do it. Plus, who cares about them anyway. ::) :D ;) :-X 8) (Incidentally, random fact about IWU, they lost their coach to a DII school, and like 8 of their 9 top guys last year... and then proceeded to beat Whitewater at Whitewater again this year on opening weekend. Whitewater then finished 4th in the WIAC, IWU 7th in the CCIW (11-14 record over all!). Fun stuff.

I am the first to get annoyed when people in my conference wax poetic about just how darn awesome they are, so that's not my point. My point is simply this.... there really isn't much to whine about. Lets face it, there just isn't. The real lesson is:

1)   Sell the strengths of the program to recruits well.
2)   Coach well and instill a crazy awesome work ethic into your players.
3)   Build the capacity of your programs as necessary.

If you build it, the banners will come. Silencing the Goliaths on the court is a whole lot more classy and fun than whining that you aren't good enough off the court. (No offense intended to my Pointer friend, of course, but it's true.) :D ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Titan Q on March 06, 2007, 03:09:10 pm
So back to D3...I think it is great that a team like UPS/WW/LC, from the NWC, can go take on a team like Wisconsin Stevens Point or Illinios Wesleyan.  Even though UPS is at a disadvantage and may not win, they can compete and have a great experience playing against the best of the best.

That's how I see it anyways. 

Why would those NWC schools be at a "disadvantage" vs Illinois Wesleyan?  IWU is a very selective liberal arts school of 2000 students that costs about $35,000/year...sounds a lot like the NWC picture you are painting. 

You are making it sound like Puget Sound vs IWU is Gonzaga vs North Carolina.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 03:26:59 pm
OK OK OK...

This is exactly what I didn't want to happen.  I just wanted some opinions on one quote, that in my opinion was not the most appropriate thing for whitworths's coach to say.  I'm not trying to step on toes or pass judgement on which team has more of an advantage one way or the other. 

My Gonzage/UNC example was simply a far fetched situation that is similar to the topic at hand.  A school from a lesser conference(Gonzaga from the WCC) taking on a school from a dominant conference(UNC from the ACC).  In that sense it is a lot like UPS from the NWC(a lesser conference) taking on IWU from the CCIW(a power conference).  There is no need to take offense, I was only trying to give a like example without filling in all the details and taking ten days to write my post. 

The bottom line here is...

I think Hayford's statement was way off and I think its great to have teams like Steven's Point in D3.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 06, 2007, 03:36:42 pm
I'm not trying to step on toes or pass judgement on which team has more of an advantage one way or the other....
I don't feel like my toes were stepped on, I doubt anyone else does either. :)

I think Hayford's statement was way off and I think its great to have teams like Steven's Point in D3.
Amen to that. As a fan of the game who got to watch their championship teams play 5-6 times.... it was like a thing of beauty. The way that they passed and played like a team was like poetry.

Incidentally, it took me ten and a half days two write my post. Lets not undercut my effort here. :D ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 03:56:43 pm
DHF,

I knew you probably wouldn't take offense, you seem pretty easy going.  I was more referring to TitanQ, I didn't want him/her thinking I was taking a shot at IWU.  As you can probably tell by my karma, I haven't had the best luck making friendly conversation with Hall of Famers :-\.  I must have crazy view points or something because they always seem to find some reason to disagree with me...and my karma takes the brunt of it ;D...Oh well.

And for the record...I appreciate the 10 and a half days that you dedicated to posting!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 06, 2007, 04:58:43 pm
LOL! Q is a guy! ??? :D If you ever listen to Hoopsville,  he's the Midwest/West reporter...  (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/crew.htm#Quillman)

Point Special and Titan Q are both easygoing, nice guys... both of whom I've talked to on numerous occasions at games. They both know their stuff, so you have to be prepared for them to correct you. However, I'm pretty sure you didn't upset them... I think it's just that being male and former college athletes, however, they don't feel quite comfortable with the cutsy smilies as I do, ;) so perhaps the tone of their posts weren't as clear. When I first started posting on the CCIW board, there were only two smilies... and I used them liberally and got a lot of flack for it. I do think it helps in terms of clarifying mood and tone though and wish more people did it.

Thanks for the compliment, incidentally. I think it's the SoCal sunshine getting to me... it's hard to be annoyed at the world when it's sunny and between 60-90 year round. Pretty soon my hair will be blond and I will be surfing and saying duuuude all the time. But seriously, how could I be offended by a guy who has an Office Space quote in his signature? That's one seriously funny movie. :)

On a completely unrelated note, you know how people in WA and OR despise the people who move up there from SoCal? Will the fact that I've lived here for the last year and a half since college (despite being a native of Virginia who has always wanted to live in the Pacific Northwest) hinder my social life if I ever finally get up there? ??? Just curious... :D :D :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 05:20:10 pm
DHF-

Being that I am a frequent visitor of SoCal and NorCal and the vast majority of my friends either currently live, are from, or went to school in California I would have to say that I'm completely at ease with...you people ;).  After all, I can't fault anybody(yourself included) for wanting to live in the year round sunshine of Southern California.  Personally, I happen to like the Bay Area much more...but I think in your case I could make an exception and say that you would be excepted in the Northwest without a problem.  There's a ton of you(californian's) already up here anyways, one more couldn't hurt...you gotta be a UPS fan though.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 06, 2007, 06:42:48 pm
I'm not going to defend anything I said in my post but some of you need to read it a little more closely...especially the wheaton poster.  Anyways, did anyone actually see where that interview came from?  The Washington U. student paper.  This raises two questions...why would Hayford do an interview during a national tourney with a student at Washington U.?  And, does anyone actually have a link to the paper where the quote came from and who wrote the article?  This is starting to sound more and more like a load of Bull, but it doesn't matter now cuz it has been posted.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 06, 2007, 06:47:19 pm
Rat,

There's a link on the WIAC board.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 06, 2007, 09:31:07 pm
Thanks Logs...thats pretty unbelievable.  But life goes on, and next season will still happen so its kind of a dumb thing to dwell on.  Whitworth appaerently already has a few commits from some Juco players and is expecting to bring in about 8 new players.  Haven't heard anything about any of them but this season has to have helped the recruiting process a bit. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 07, 2007, 12:17:35 am
Just read the article and it just looks like a poor choice of words, but I don't think it should be taken as hard as people are.  Stevens Point and that conference is tough.  Watching how they did UPS at UPS, I would say they were a good DII.  They are good for DIII, but that talent would beat lots of DII's around here.  Let's be real.  Western Oregon, Northwest Nazarene, etc... 

Anyways, you put a mic infront of a coach who just lost an emotional game.  Give the guy a break.  COY's get that pass, right?????
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 07, 2007, 01:49:03 am
On a completely unrelated note, you know how people in WA and OR despise the people who move up there from SoCal? Will the fact that I've lived here for the last year and a half since college (despite being a native of Virginia who has always wanted to live in the Pacific Northwest) hinder my social life if I ever finally get up there? ??? Just curious... :D :D :D

Not all people from Oregon despise people from SoCal -- just the ones who migrated here so long ago (from CA) that they've forgotten where they came from.  Actually, you'll miss the sun & probably want to move back.  If you do move here, just tell everyone you're from Virginia & get your driver's license and car license changed right away.   You'll meet so many people from California, that you'll forget you live in Oregon!  Can't speak for WA.

Regarding Coach Hayford's remarks (if he made them).  He can be emotional & you have to cut him some slack, they lost that 2nd game by 2 points.  Of course he might've said some things he shouldn't have, but he's still a good coach & the team put forth a great effort!   The NWC should be proud of the Bucs and their coaches!

And, why doesn't the WIAC see it as a compliment that someone thinks they should play DII?  I've thought that about Linfield football for years!  It's not like someone said they should play the JC bracket!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2007, 02:56:04 am
I'm not going to defend anything I said in my post but some of you need to read it a little more closely...especially the wheaton poster.  Anyways, did anyone actually see where that interview came from?  The Washington U. student paper.  This raises two questions...why would Hayford do an interview during a national tourney with a student at Washington U.?  And, does anyone actually have a link to the paper where the quote came from and who wrote the article?  This is starting to sound more and more like a load of Bull, but it doesn't matter now cuz it has been posted.

Uh, the postgame press conference maybe?

509, the link is all around. Check other boards. It was actually printed.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 07, 2007, 09:45:41 am
And, why doesn't the WIAC see it as a compliment that someone thinks they should play DII?  I've thought that about Linfield football for years!  It's not like someone said they should play the JC bracket!

There's an extreme difference between "could compete with DII teams" and "should move to DII."  The first could definately be seen as a compliment; the Pointers and others in their conference are good enough to compete with schools that offer scholarships and the implication is that DII teams are better because of this fact.  The second has tinges of elitism or jealousy... it implies that the WIAC isn't wanted in DIII, and I think this all stems from the success of the WIAC as opposed to anything else.  If the WIAC wasn't competing on a high level in so many sports, though the realities of the schools would be the same (all being larger, public schools as opposed to private, etc, etc...)... and there wouldn't be people tramping down the path of this discussion over and over again.  The WIAC is NOT the only conference of public schools.  There are public schools in Pennsylvania in DIII.  There are entire conferences of CUNY (City University of New York) and SUNY (State University of New York) schools in DIII.  The NJAC is a conference of public schools in New Jersey.  But you don't hear people making these same comments about these schools and conferences that are made, all the time.

And the thing about it is... as has been noted by CCIW posters who have added their comments to this discussion... the WIAC is not infallible.  The CCIW alone in the 2006 calendar year went 6-1 against the WIAC.  Thought the WIAC got 3 bids last season in the NCAA tournament, no team got beyond the second round.  But individual WIAC schools aren't even the most dominant in the country across DIII athletics...!

If you look at the Director's Cup standings (found HERE (http://www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/d31221relstand)), there are some WIAC schools in the top 20... but not in the top 11.  There are two NESCAC teams in the top six.  There are two UAA teams in the top 9.  The Director's Cup is only one way to see how schools compete across all DIII sports... but there has never been a WIAC school at the top of the Director's Cup standings.  Williams College (MA) has won 10 of the last 11 Director's Cup standings.  They currently stand 6th... but they were 6th after the Fall sports last year and still won by over 100 points.  The top WIAC team?  UWSP, at 22nd in the country.  Now, Point was 5th in the country the previous two seasons, but simply stating that the WIAC *should* be DIII sounds like sour beans.

And stating that the WIAC has more in common with DII teams isn't the case either.  I gave plenty of examples of public schools, and there's another striking difference... the WIAC DOES NOT GIVE ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS.  The WIAC plays by the same rules as everyone else.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 07, 2007, 01:14:19 pm
Pat -

Uh, the postgame press conference maybe?

And, in these post game conferences, you hear some of the most outlandish comments, too.  Basketball is emotional and you need time to calm down most times.  We have all seen it before.   

You guys are talking as if Hayford has ordered a code red on the WIAC.  I wonder how much offense the Steven's Point coach took offense.  Does anyone know?

Are there any DIIs in Wisconsin?  Any NAIAs?  is it true that you either go DI or DIII?  I've never really looked into it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on March 07, 2007, 01:21:46 pm
Are there any DIIs in Wisconsin?  Any NAIAs?  is it true that you either go DI or DIII?  I've never really looked into it.
Sigh.... I posted the details on the previous page! :P ;)

Wisconsion doesn't have a ton of DIIs or NAIA institutions, but the statement "you either go DI or DIII is certainly hyperbole.

See even more specifics here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_athletic_programs_by_U.S._State#Wisconsin)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2007, 01:44:49 pm
Pat -

Uh, the postgame press conference maybe?

And, in these post game conferences, you hear some of the most outlandish comments, too.  Basketball is emotional and you need time to calm down most times.  We have all seen it before.   

And note I'm not foolish enough to state with veracity that it was said, only that it was printed.

It's a good thing the NCAA mandates a 10-minute cooling-off period. Who knows what people might say if asked immediately after the game. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 07, 2007, 02:33:19 pm
Are there any DIIs in Wisconsin?  Any NAIAs?  is it true that you either go DI or DIII?  I've never really looked into it.
Sigh.... I posted the details on the previous page! :P ;)

Wisconsion doesn't have a ton of DIIs or NAIA institutions, but the statement "you either go DI or DIII is certainly hyperbole.

See even more specifics here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_athletic_programs_by_U.S._State#Wisconsin)

There ARE D-II schools in Minnesota and Michigan that occasionally lure Wisconsin athletes away from the WIAC schools... there are three Wisconsinites on Michigan Tech's roster, and three on Northern Michigan's roster, Winona State has 7 players from Wisconsin on their roster.  These are just a few examples... but when you look at the number of athletes in Wisconsin schools who graduate in a particular year, there are lots... and not a whole lot of places to go play.  Plus, lots of players do choose to stay closer to home as opposed to going far away... a prime example of this is Amanda Nechucta, who was from about 10 miles away from SP, and could have probably gone D-1 to play somewhere but stayed close to home and was an All-American basketball player and also an All-American in track as well.  Had she gone "big time," she probably would not have had the opportunity to do two sports.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 07, 2007, 02:49:13 pm
So it could be safe to say that in Wisconsin, there are less schools to fight for the better, non-DI type players?  As stated, there are players who go away to school, but for Wisconsin talent, the DIIIs don't have to battle as much with DIIs that might be right there recruiting the same person?  Is it only the WIAC battling for the most part?

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2007, 03:09:33 pm
The state has reciprocal tuition agreements with state schools in Illinois and Minnesota, IIRC. There's a lot of students who flow over the border.

Winona State, the defending D-II champ, has a bunch of Wisconsin kids playing key roles, for example. They're just across the river in Minnesota.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 07, 2007, 03:11:19 pm
Actually, there isnt' reciprocity with IL.  Certain campuses have reciprocity, but the U of Wisc system as a whole does not.  You are correct, though, MN does have reciprocity, which aids schools on the Western half of the state (River Fall, Stout, Eau Claire, La Crosse) the most.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Just Bill on March 07, 2007, 03:13:32 pm
Actually, there isnt' reciprocity with IL.  Certain campuses have reciprocity, but the U of Wisc system as a whole does not.  You are correct, though, MN does have reciprocity, which aids schools on the Western half of the state (River Fall, Stout, Eau Claire, La Crosse) the most.

In fact, a Wisconsin resident can attend a Minnesota public university for LESS than a Minnesota resident can.  As you can imagine our Maroon and Gold neighbors are rather up-in-arms and eager to renegotiate over that one.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2007, 03:25:08 pm
Actually, there isnt' reciprocity with IL.  Certain campuses have reciprocity, but the U of Wisc system as a whole does not.  You are correct, though, MN does have reciprocity, which aids schools on the Western half of the state (River Fall, Stout, Eau Claire, La Crosse) the most.

In fact, a Wisconsin resident can attend a Minnesota public university for LESS than a Minnesota resident can.  As you can imagine our Maroon and Gold neighbors are rather up-in-arms and eager to renegotiate over that one.

For real? :o

Is that one of those new-fangled illegal alien amnesty programs?

Golly-gee! :D :D :D ;D 8)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Just Bill on March 07, 2007, 03:32:02 pm
Yes, it's true.  The price was paid was based on the tuition at your home state's flagship school (UW-Madison or UM-Twin Cities).  However, the Minnesota legislature raised their tuition at a much steeper rate than Wisconsin did.  So a Wisconsin resident can go to U of M and pay what he/she would pay at UW-Madison.

The Minnesota state legislature really hung the U of M out to dry on this one.  Now the U of M is trying to cancel the agreement early and renegotiate, but as you can imagine, Wisconsin isn't particularily interested.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2007, 01:54:47 am
There's an extreme difference between "could compete with DII teams" and "should move to DII."  The first could definately be seen as a compliment; the Pointers and others in their conference are good enough to compete with schools that offer scholarships and the implication is that DII teams are better because of this fact.  The second has tinges of elitism or jealousy

You're assuming intent here, PS, and that's unfair to Coach Hayford. Yes, it's true that someone could want to get the WIAC out of D3 because of either elitism or envy. But it's equally as true that someone could want to get the WIAC out of D3 because of a sincere conviction that the schools of the WIAC fit the typical institutional profile of D2 (more publics than privates, with the student bodies of the publics ranging from 5,000-12,000 undergraduates) much better than they fit the typical institutional profile of D3 (far more privates than publics, most student bodies in the 1,000-3,000 undergraduate range).

And stating that the WIAC has more in common with DII teams isn't the case either.  I gave plenty of examples of public schools, and there's another striking difference... the WIAC DOES NOT GIVE ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS.  The WIAC plays by the same rules as everyone else.

That's the salient point, and the one that should be held uppermost in this debate. If a school is willing to eschew athletic scholarships and consents to live by the rules of D3, then there should be a place for that school in D3. However, the point remains that WIAC schools do match the typical institutional profile of D2 schools much more than they do the typical institutional profile of D3 schools. Much has been made of the striking similarity in institutional profiles between the schools of D2's Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (Winona State, Bemidji State, UM-Crookston, etc.) and the WIAC right across the river. Seven of the ten NSIC schools are publics, and here's their sizes in terms of undergrads:

Bemidji State5,000
UM-Crookston2,775
MSU-Moorhead7,638
Northern State2,200
Southwest Minnesota State7,003
Wayne State3,300
Winona State8,000

And here's the size of the WIAC schools:

UW-Eau Claire10,500
UW-LaCrosse  8,746
UW-Oshkosh11,242
UW-Platteville  5,600
UW-River Falls  5,800
UW-Stevens Point  8,775
UW-Stout  7,400
UW-Superior  2,900
UW-Whitewater10,632

Not only are the two groups similar, if anything the WIAC schools tend on average to be slightly larger than their D2 neighbors to the west.

Of course, school size isn't necessarily a determinant for anything in sports, because athletes tend to be recruited rather than drawn from among the general student population in D3. If school size determined athletic success, NYU (undergrad enrollment: 17,475) would be winning the Director's Cup every year, and Williams (undergrad enrollment: 1,936) would be just another anonymous D3 school in terms of sports. But school size is relevant when you're talking about typical institutional profiles within an NCAA division.

As PS said, being a public doesn't necessarily give a D3 school a leg up on anything, as is demonstrated by all of the publics in the eastern half of D3 that are not particularly distinguished in terms of athletics. While many of those eastern publics are much smaller than WIAC schools, there are at least two leagues whose schools are of comparable size (SUNYAC and LEC) and one whose schools tend to be considerably larger in terms of undergraduates (CUNYAC). None of those conferences has exactly covered itself in glory on the field of play in D3.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 08, 2007, 10:21:36 am
While many of those eastern publics are much smaller than WIAC schools, there are at least two leagues whose schools are of comparable size (SUNYAC and LEC) and one whose schools tend to be considerably larger in terms of undergraduates (CUNYAC). None of those conferences has exactly covered itself in glory on the field of play in D3.

And this reason, in an of itself, is why there IS something more to the fact that the WIAC is annually (if not more frequently) singled out as the conference that "doesn't belong."  As was pointed out by Oxybob earlier, Coach Hayford didn't have similar comments when his team whitewashed UC Santa Cruz by 24 and 45 earlier this year.  In fact, the Banana Slugs were a team that was ADDED to the schedule in November!

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/ReedChange.htm

Note the quote there that "We need to play a game that will count toward our overall record."
That is something recognized by the WW coaching staff as well as by the NCAA, and there was no note that 'UCSC should really be DII, but we'll play them anyway.'

But, actually, my earlier comments:

There's an extreme difference between "could compete with DII teams" and "should move to DII."  The first could definately be seen as a compliment; the Pointers and others in their conference are good enough to compete with schools that offer scholarships and the implication is that DII teams are better because of this fact.  The second has tinges of elitism or jealousy

were more addressing bbaddict than Coach Hayford:

And, why doesn't the WIAC see it as a compliment that someone thinks they should play DII? 
(emphasis added)

I'm willing to give Coach Hayford a pass on this and my discussion has been more geared TOWARD the discussion than merely at him.

But it does make me wonder why it is JUST the WIAC that it singled out year after year after year...  There are other DIII schools who are in the same situation as the WIAC, with one marked difference... the other schools haven't had the success on the National level with the frequency of the WIAC.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bucs77 on March 08, 2007, 01:26:40 pm
willing to give him a pass?
   Please let my post be the last we hear of all of this.  Hayford simply meant that they would be a better fit in d2, which they would.  But who cares?  there is still a good amount of the post season to be played.   Lets talk about the season we have left before the "snore"..............."snore"  NBA post season has to come around
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: John Gleich on March 09, 2007, 02:02:19 pm
Hayford simply meant that they would be a better fit in d2, which they would.

I'm willing to drop, but your statement is purely opinion.  Like I said before, there are other publics in DIII.  There are other schools with a large number of students.  But there aren't any conferences who have had the success  the WIAC has had, and this is why the entire subject gets brought up.  Every year.  The same arguments are made.

Moving on, though... which team is the favorite next season?  Does Witworth return a lot of players?  Will UPS get back to the success they've had recently, or will another school step up and be the front runner?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 09, 2007, 03:08:55 pm
For next year in the NWC?  Whitworth is losing a lot of horses -- unless Hayford recruits some JC transfers (which he usually does), they're going to be in a rebuilding mode.  Lewis & Clark, however, didn't have a single senior & they looked good this year (co-champs for NWC).  Also, Willamette, my favorite team, has a lot of returning talent and hopefully won't be  plagued with injury and ineligibility issues next year.  So, my bets are on LC & Willamette.  Whitworth, UPS & GFU usually are forces to contend with and don't underestimate the Pacific team.    Guess it's just a tough conference.  Even this year, no one knew how the top three was shaking out until the last week of games!  We knew who was in the top 3, just not the order!

That said, I'll just have to go back to "Go Bearcats!"
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 09, 2007, 04:29:28 pm
I agree with bbaddict, the conference will be tough again next year.  WW will need some serious recruiting/JC transfers to stay on top...I'm not saying its out of the question but it will be very tough for them.  LC will be really good again next year, as bbaddict said they are returning everyone.  I'm not so sure about Willamette though, they will need some guys to play a lot better next year. I thought Nugent was very impressive this year, but in generel I thought they were pretty weak all around(yes I realize they had lots of injuries and played without some of their best guys).  Pacific will be dangerous too. 

Obviously I'm biased but I really think UPS will be right back on top next year.  They had five all conference players this year and they don't graduate anybody.  For the 07-08 season they won't have to deal with a first year head coach, they will actually have some senior leadership, and they will have a legit post player(he was hurt all year) so that Foster and Krauel won't have to play inside all the time against bigger players.  I think It's gonna be the Loggers and the Pioneers battling for first place next year. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 09, 2007, 05:48:55 pm
So, does that mean that UPS is going to make Lunt their "real" coach, not just interim?  Are they still looking for a replacement for Bridgeland or have they just not updated their website to reflect thta their head coach is Lunt?

As for Willamette's team.  They only had one returning starter this year (Ian Mansfield) after Josh Erickson got hurt again.  So, all those guys were newbies -- no wonder they didn't look that good.  But they have a good coach & I'm confident that they'll be back better than ever next year! 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 09, 2007, 06:09:58 pm
I'm not so sure about Willamette though, they will need some guys to play a lot better next year. I thought Nugent was very impressive this year, but in generel I thought they were pretty weak all around(yes I realize they had lots of injuries and played without some of their best guys).

Interesting that you think this UPSoundlogs since WU only lost to UPS by 3 in 3OT and got soundly beat by them in Salem 119-108.  I was at both games and neither team looked weak to me!  I guess we'll just see next year!  One thing is for sure & that is the NWC is getting stronger.  So, here's to two NWC men's teams in NCAA playoffs next year!
(The women usually manage it, so why not?)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 09, 2007, 06:21:10 pm
Bbaddict-

Good point, I guess Lunt isn't the official head coach yet so I shouldn't get ahead of myself.  However, from what I have heard it sounds like he will be sticking around.  He'd get my vote anyways, I thought he did a great job this year.  

As for WU, I also expect bigger things from them next year.  I like some of their players, especially Nugent(I think he has POY potential), and I think they will improve greatly from this year.  I just don't see them as being a serious contender for the championship next year, I think they will be more of a third/forth place team.  

Anyone else besides me and bbad have some predictions/insight for next year?  Bucs, bigfella, pinecone....Gil?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on March 09, 2007, 06:29:18 pm
"Interesting that you think this UPSoundlogs since WU only lost to UPS by 3 in 3OT and got soundly beat by them in Salem 119-108" - BBaddict

Ouch...I was suprised when you didn't mention that in your previous post, I thought maybe I snuck one by you.  And you are right that WU made UPS look pretty bad this year.  I went to the WU/UPS game in Tacoma and in my opinion neither team played very well that game.  Don't get me wrong it was very exciting...but very ugly.  I'm not sure what it is, Willamette just doesn't look as good to me as LC and UPS for next year...they don't look like a championship contender to me.  For all I know they will prove me wrong though, so we will just have to wait and see. 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 10, 2007, 01:19:28 am
You can never count Whitworth out of the equation.  They will always get good transfers.  The power to get players out there is for real. 

LC has to be counted in the mix, especially if no one is leaving and if Gaillard is out there hunting down players to help get them better.

UPS is sort of a question mark to me, though.  The talent was illmatic, and they will bring in more players, but the swagger wasn't there this year.  And, Bridge kind of put that swagger in those kids.  I wonder if that has been lost with Eric gone.  Just a thought.

Pacific will be tough.  They keep getting better and they don't lose much from this year's team.  The surprise might be PLU.  They are freaky athletic, capable of putting hurts on people.

I  think it will be a four dog race, with any of the other teams able to put hits on anyone.  Look out for Willamette, too.  They are always scary, especially if they are not supposed to win.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 10, 2007, 03:21:55 am
You can never count Whitworth out of the equation.  They will always get good transfers.  The power to get players out there is for real. 

LC has to be counted in the mix, especially if no one is leaving and if Gaillard is out there hunting down players to help get them better.

UPS is sort of a question mark to me, though.  The talent was illmatic, and they will bring in more players, but the swagger wasn't there this year.  And, Bridge kind of put that swagger in those kids.  I wonder if that has been lost with Eric gone.  Just a thought.

Pacific will be tough.  They keep getting better and they don't lose much from this year's team.  The surprise might be PLU.  They are freaky athletic, capable of putting hurts on people.

I  think it will be a four dog race, with any of the other teams able to put hits on anyone.  Look out for Willamette, too.  They are always scary, especially if they are not supposed to win.

Not sure what you mean about Willamette when they're "not supposed to win."  Just the past 6 seasons, they've been in the top 3 teams (NWC playoff calibre) 4 out of 6 times!  I think people expect Willamette to win.

I do think that UPS & LC will be forces to contend with because they aren't graduating anyone this year.  But Whitworth will be doing some serious rebuilding without Bryan Williams, James Jones, Kevin Hasenfus, and Jon Young and I'm pretty sure they know it.  The only bench players that saw significant playing time were Jurich & Symes, so I think they're going to be in the boat Williamette was in this year -- little or no leadership!  They might have lots of talent, but you need someone who understands the plays & can lead others.  Willamette did a lot better when Erickson, Plank & Stuvland were able to play -- unfortunately, not at the same time.   Willamette's team this year was young -- but they did give UPS a run for their money!

You could be right bigfella, but don't bet the farm on it!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 10, 2007, 03:04:05 pm
I would guess that Willamette will not be picked to finish in the top three of the league, thus, they are not expected to win.  No desrespect for them, just saying the truth of the matter.  That makes a team tougher in most cases.  At least to me.  The way they are coached makes them a threat no matter how strong of a team they have.  But, I think they will have to have a very strong recruiting class to be where they have been.  Olinger and Stuvland were a great backcourt, with a sprinkle of Fife and Erickson.  I loved those combos.  Good guards do it in this league.  I think Willamette needs to refuel in that regard.  The lefty is pretty good though.  Smith, I think....
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on March 10, 2007, 11:56:41 pm
Has Hayford ever had a down year at Whitworth?  I don't think so, he loses A LOT, but I think the Pirates will find a way to be in the hunt, maybe not for the title, but for the playoffs.

If LC is not everyone's favorite than something is wrong, everyone back from a championship squad, and a veteran coach.

UPS will be right there, whether the interim guy gets the job or not.

My Boxers should be right there.  I just can't wait to see VanDomlen for the entire year.

Those are the 4 I see in the hunt for the 3 playoff spots, but ofcourse Willamette will be there pushing.  Just looking at the rosters it seems like Fox (Heu Weller/Parker) and Whitman (Born) lose a ton, PLU seems to have their top guys back, and once again, being a Pacific fan, it is great seeing Linfield down at the bottom ;D 
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: oldnwcer on March 11, 2007, 03:34:21 pm
Just wanted to make an observation to you all about this weekends elite eight.
It speaks well of Whitworth and the Northwest Conference when the teams that beat our representatives at the NCAAs go on and do well.  You may have not noticed but Wash U didn't have too difficult of a time getting by Stevens Pt to get to the Final Point.  I think it says volumes about Whitworth, LC, UPS and the overall strength of our league.

And as for next year, I like LC and UPS, but do not count out Pacific and Whitworth.  I guarantee you that there will be additions to both squads that will make them both top level teams, and then Willamette and PLU will be very dangerous. That only leaves Fox, Whitman and Linfield as true non contenders.
I guess it doesn't take a lot of brains to put everyone in the mix.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on March 11, 2007, 05:31:49 pm
Was U. is now in the final four...they beat Hope last night.  Man, thats gotta be rough on the Whitworth players.  They all felt that they  could play with the best in the country and turns out they were right. 

For next year, Whitworth has already landed a JC point guard, shooting guard, and a forward.  I don't really know a whole lot about these guys but expect some brand new faces on the Whitworth team next year.  You'll see Symes, Willemsen, and Jurich getting a lot of playing time next season, but there will definately be new faces.  I think LC will be near the top of the league again, but they will still rely heavily on 3 point shooting meaning they can be beat by anyone on any night.  UPS will also be a force in the league.  Willamette hasn't been able to beat Whitworth in quite some time and I don't see next year being much different, even with Nugent having a year under his belt.  I think the same three teams make the conference tourney, LC, UPS, and WW.  And next year the NWC will get two playoff bids.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bbaddict on March 11, 2007, 09:59:07 pm
I would guess that Willamette will not be picked to finish in the top three of the league, thus, they are not expected to win.  No desrespect for them, just saying the truth of the matter.[/quote

In the 2006/07 coaches' poll, Lewis & Clark was picked to finish 4th.  What bearing did that have on reality?  Whitworth has had Willamette's number for a few games, but Willamette seems to know how to handle UPS, who by the way, usually knows how to beat Whitworth!  Don't think you can count anyone out.  Also, don't think you have a good grasp, bigfella, of Willamette's team.   They have a lot of talent -- teamwork style talent.  Guess we'll have to wait & see!

(509) Rat -- I sure hope you're right about 2 playoff bids!  The NWC women have that respect & it's time that the men get it!

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 11, 2007, 11:03:06 pm
addict -

Your statement explains exactly what I meant.  LC was picked to come in 4th.  That means that no one, except the coaches and players in their locker room believed they could win the league.  I have seen it before.  No one had the LC games circled on their schedules.  Everyone was trying to figure out how to beat UPS Whitworth and Willamette.  That makes a team dangerous, especially if they are out there playing loose.

And, there are good players on Willamette's team.  But, you can't argue that the guards they had last year were a small step above what they have now, right?  Guards win championships in this league.  You have to have play makers.  Willamette has always done a GREAT job of having big strong play making guards who rebounded, handled the rock, and defended well.  I just don't see that on their roster right now, but I may be wrong.  And, I will admit it......
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bearcatsfan3 on March 13, 2007, 01:36:23 pm
2007-2008


1. LC: EVERYONE back, plus they beat UPS 2 out of 3 this season.

2. UPS: EVERYONE back, and just because they lost in the NWC tourney early, people seem to forget they've had a run of 4 years that NO ONE ELSE can match.

3. Whitworth:  The Pirates can and do reload every year....when they lost Avery, CWilliams, Bierlink and Jensen, people claimed they were dead in the water. Then they got BWilliams, Young, Tucker, and Pecht....they lost those guys, everyone said they were dead...so they got Symes and the Fus and JJones...and just keep on winning...I'm almost tempted to pick them higher...

4. WHO CARES....if you're not in the top 3, it doesn't matter, you're done by early February, and you're watching again...

As for Willamette, let's wait to see who they get in recruiting...let's wait and see what players return (as with the Fife and Stuvland sagas, nothing seems guaranteed with them right now)...let's see what condition players return (as posters are correct in saying they NEED TO IMPROVE)...let's see how they adjust to what LC and Whitworth are doing (as they went 0-4 there, with only 1 close game...but seem to have a handle on how to take on UPS)...as much as I'd love to say THEY'LL BE BACK...there are far too many questionmarks after such a dismal season...
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: bigfella on March 13, 2007, 06:14:48 pm
If there were a coach who can get those question marks answered, it would be Coach James, too.  He does a great job year in and year out.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: D O.C. on March 24, 2007, 05:57:17 pm
Every single basketball coach should keep the last two minutes of the Winona State-Barton NCAA Division II championship game to play for his team every season to see if they can hear any fat ladies singing.

From the LINFIELD website comes this reason I am frustrated with the history being made nowadays.

Quote
Ted Wilson Gym bears the name of the man who coached the Linfield basketball team longer and to more wins than any individual in school history. In 20 seasons, Wilson directed the Wildcats in over 500 games, compiling a 324-213 record. Riley Gym was nicknamed the "House of Hustle" out of respect for Wilson's high-scoring teams, which averaged a school-record 96.5 points a game during the 1977-78 season.
Ted Wilson Gym is decorated with 18 Northwest Conference championship banners, 16 of which were won by Wilson between 1961 and 1981.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWFan on April 30, 2007, 12:04:11 pm
It looks like the Lunt got the UPS job permanently.  Should be a fun team to watch next year!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: parklandpride on April 30, 2007, 11:21:37 pm
That a kid Lunt....congrats. UPS will be strong for years to come with Lunt at the controls.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: diehardfan on May 01, 2007, 01:54:05 am
I wonder who the youngest head coach is in basketball right now... at least of a nationally well known program... he's probably close to the youngest. Or maybe it's just that I'm the same age and I wish I was still young. :D

He posted a very respectable record for a new/interim coach. Should be fun to see how he does in a long term permanent role with his own recruits after the strong legacy that Bridgeland left.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pineconefan on May 04, 2007, 12:06:52 am
Congrats to Rodney Wecker being named head coach at Austin College.  I am sure all Pirate fans will be pulling for the Kangaroos to do well.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on May 10, 2007, 12:59:39 am
Yes, congrats to the Whitworth assistant, do the NWC proud and go and turn around Austin!

Congrats to Lunt as well, does he follow Bridgeland's blueprint or does he start to really put his imprints on the program?

Any recruiting news?  The board has been quiet on this front.

Already excited for next year, lots of questions:

Can Whitworth stay dominant with the loss of those seniors as well as a key assistant? 

Will LC and UPS do as expected and finish as the top 2?

Will Willamette bounce back after an un-Willamette type season?

Does Pacific continue to climb?

Where in the world does Whitman go now that Born is gone?

2007-08 is my year to get out to as many NWC games as possible and at as many sites as possible, we should get together as NWC posters at selected games next year, that would be fun.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on May 18, 2007, 11:12:15 am
Straight from the rumor mill...Whitworth has 9 commits as of right now.  7 freshman, 2 JUCO's.  Of course this is D III so you never really know who's coming until school starts.  One freshman, Drew Bruns (El Toro HS), was co-mvp of his leaugue along with Gonzaga top 100 recruit Austin Daye of Woodbridge High in Irvine, Calif.  From what I hear from the guys who are all playing open gym is that he could easily break all of Jon Young's outside shooting records.  Another freshman is a 6-4, 6-5 guy who's game looks a lot like Jones'....but they say he's already better than Jones (he's played in open gym as well).  One of the JUCO guys is from Delta CC, the other from Diablo Valley, but I don't know any names.  Looks like Hayford will once again have plenty of talent to choose from....but can this younger Whitworth team still get it done against a tough NWC?  I think so.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on May 20, 2007, 01:04:50 am
Thanks for the update Rat, sounds like Whitworth, always talented and find ways to continue to get those quality transfers.

Any other news?  I've heard nothing.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on May 21, 2007, 03:14:30 am
That's all I've got.  I'll know a lot more about next year's Pirate team once school starts up again.  Weck leaving for Austin College is the only other news I can think of for the Pirates but pineconefan has everyone already updated on that one.  Oh yeah, I forgot one thing...Whitworth will have black road uni's next year...   ;D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on May 25, 2007, 07:08:12 pm
A new assisstant coach has been hired.  His first name is Josh, but I couldn't get a last name.  He was  GA at Gonzaga and did some assisstant coaching somewhere in Minnesota.  If I get some more info I'll post it.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: pantherpride06 on June 17, 2007, 11:40:58 am
Greetings NWC posters.  I am going to be working for Puget Sound this upcoming year as an Athletic Dept. Intern.  I come from Greenville College (Greenville, Ill.) and I've been a very, very avid SLIAC Board poster.  I wanted to introduce myself and hope that I will be learning about the Puget Sound ball club and other teams in the NWC and I can have some imput on this already buzzing board! :)

PantherPride // Jermaine
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on June 27, 2007, 07:09:19 pm
Here's the link from the Whitworth website on the new assisstants

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/Assistants.htm (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball_Men/Releases/06_07/Assistants.htm)

And here is a tentative schedule

http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Schedules/Index.aspx?id=2 (http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Schedules/Index.aspx?id=2)

Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 28, 2007, 03:26:17 am
A new assisstant coach has been hired.  His first name is Josh, but I couldn't get a last name.  He was  GA at Gonzaga and did some assisstant coaching somewhere in Minnesota.  If I get some more info I'll post it.

It's Josh Downey, and "somewhere in Minnesota" is Concordia-Moorhead of the MIAC. Too bad that as a Whitworth assistant coach he's not going to be allowed to post here, because he helped to enliven the MIAC room in days of yore under the nom de hoops "Sofa King".
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on July 01, 2007, 01:30:52 pm
That is too bad that he won't be able to post anymore, I'd be curious to see what he has to say about the level of play in the NWC compared to the MIAC.  I posted the Whitworth Athletic site link in my last post on the previous page, It has all of this info with some additional details.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 13, 2007, 02:34:16 am
Watched an open gym the other day.  Whats scary is that this years team will be more talented than lasts (top to bottom) and that's minus Williams, Jones, Young, and Hasenfus.  The only question (IMO) is can Whitworth find a leader/ someone with the vision on the court that they lost when Williams graduated?  The new Assistants have been working these guys into the ground with the new strength & conditioning program...keep it up ;)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 13, 2007, 01:23:58 pm
Watched an open gym the other day.  Whats scary is that this years team will be more talented than lasts (top to bottom) and that's minus Williams, Jones, Young, and Hasenfus.  The only question (IMO) is can Whitworth find a leader/ someone with the vision on the court that they lost when Williams graduated?  The new Assistants have been working these guys into the ground with the new strength & conditioning program...keep it up ;)

Not surprised, Whitworth is always talented.  as far as "the new assistants working these guys into the ground................"  Sounds like an NCAA violation to me.......  I guess if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2007, 03:44:52 pm
I think coaches are allowed to prescribe an offseason lifting program without violating NCAA rules. Not sure what you're thinking of.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on September 13, 2007, 05:18:30 pm
509-

Can we get a run down of the new super talented WW squad please(size, positions, skills, etc)?  I'd love to know who you think will replace B.Williams, he's the one that made their team go.  I'm not doubting that they re-stocked, i'd just like some detials. 

I'd also like to announce that is UPS is bringing sexy back this year... Foster, Krauel, Marsh, and A. Williams...All of them All NWC in 06-07 and All of them returning for 07-08.  COME GET IT!!! 

It's probably too early, but i wouldnt mind some pre-pre season debate/predictions/trash talking(all in good taste of course) if anyone wants to join me.  Im looking forward to a new season!!!
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 13, 2007, 09:01:42 pm
I think coaches are allowed to prescribe an offseason lifting program without violating NCAA rules. Not sure what you're thinking of.

You're absolutely right Pat, coaches can "prescribe" an offseason lifting program, if that's what Whitworth assistants did, than yeah, there are no violations.  But when it says they are "working these guys into the ground", it just sounded as if they were in their with them actually directing them and working them out, which is a violation (unless it is part of a university class that is open to all).  That's what I'm "thinking of", just the interpretation of what was said.

Logs - good to see you back on the board, I too am excited for a new season.  UPS does bring back a lot of talent, and JL will be a lot more comfortable in his second year and knowing that it's his job.  LC brings back a boatload of talent as well, also 4 all-leaguers.  Those two have to be the ones to beat this year.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 13, 2007, 09:11:04 pm
And Logs, don't forget Delong was all league as well, that's their whole starting 5.  There might not be another team in the country who returns all 5 starters who were each all-leaguers, pretty impressive.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: Pat Coleman on September 14, 2007, 10:49:35 am
I think coaches are allowed to prescribe an offseason lifting program without violating NCAA rules. Not sure what you're thinking of.

You're absolutely right Pat, coaches can "prescribe" an offseason lifting program, if that's what Whitworth assistants did, than yeah, there are no violations.  But when it says they are "working these guys into the ground", it just sounded as if they were in their with them actually directing them and working them out, which is a violation (unless it is part of a university class that is open to all).  That's what I'm "thinking of", just the interpretation of what was said.

If you're looking to assume the worst or stir up trouble, then yes, you could interpret it that way. :)
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 14, 2007, 11:47:38 am
Just interpreting, not stirring up trouble or assuming the worst.  Just taking advantage as a DIII fan to do some posting on your wonderful site!  :D
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on September 17, 2007, 12:26:47 pm
NWCer-

Whoops, I guess i just messed up and forgot to put Delong on there.  The whole point of my last post was to show that UPS has a returning starting five of all-league players...in my excitment i must have just left him off accidentally(talk about a back fire).  Thanks for the correction. 

509, has yet to respond about the talent in Spokane.  You seem to have a good handle on the WW team, who have they reloaded with?  Any info?

And yes, i think you are right, until i hear some more about WW's new guys it looks like LC and UPS will be the top dawgs for sure.  I'm also interested to see if WU will bounce back with some new talent, if anyone has some info on them speak up...bcats?
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 17, 2007, 01:46:21 pm
You got it Logs,

Like I said, that's pretty impressive bringing back 5 all-league starters, very impressive, have they added any talented recruits?

Things I've heard:  WU's Nugent is in some academic trouble and may be done.....  LC brought in a couple of studs, and Pacific has brought in a bunch of talented transfers.  Like I said -  I just heard these things, can't confirm - typical out of season gossip.

509 seems to think Whitworth is loaded, or re-loaded, I should say.

Sounds to me like you can ink LC and UPS in the playoffs with Whitworth, Pacific, and maybe Willamette fighting for another spot.  Hard to imagine anyone else with a legitimate shot, maybe PLU?



Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 18, 2007, 02:07:38 pm
Quote
One freshman, Drew Bruns (El Toro HS), was co-mvp of his leaugue along with Gonzaga top 100 recruit Austin Daye of Woodbridge High in Irvine, Calif.

I posted that earlier.  Another one of the freshman likely to make an immediate impact is David Riley (nephew of OSU's Mike RIley).  He's from Palo Alto and has been hitting from all over the court ever since he got here.  I'll try and find out more about the new guys...but as far as returners go, any team who has the talent whitworth does and brings back Ryan Symes (their leading scorer) is going to be good.

Like I said earlier finding a replacement for bryan will be tough.  The biggest thing you lose with him is his ability to distribute the ball and get to the basket.  He wasn't a huge threat to light it up from beyond the 3-point line, or put up 30 points on you in a night but he never needed to.  Next season should be the toughest NWC league we've seen in a few years, especially if Pacific can continue to stay in the mix.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: UPSoundLogs on September 19, 2007, 04:00:22 pm
Geez, it does look like we are in for a talent up grade from last year!  If what you guys are saying is correct then the league should be stacked.

NWCer-
im really not sure about UPS's incoming freshman for this season, i have heard that they are excited about  2-3 sophmores who didnt hardly play as freshman.  One of them is a big guy that I'm told is a lot like McVey from a couple years back...except with some actual basketball skills.  That would help a lot because last years biggest weakness was on the boards and needing some power inside.  I know Foster and Krauel have also beefed up since last year so the loggers should be pretty rugged in the paint. 

...also, its too bad about Nugent from WU, i thought he was gonna be really good and entertaining to watch. 

Rat-
I forgot about Symes, honestly i wasnt that impressed with him when i saw him(maybe just an off night) but he can score and he will be about the only returning impact player with some NWC experience for the bucs.  Im sure WW will be tough as always.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 19, 2007, 11:30:31 pm
Quote
...also, its too bad about Nugent from WU, i thought he was gonna be really good and entertaining to watch.

Straight from the rumor mill...Nugent is down in Cali this season playing some JuCo ball (possibly at Delta).  Sounds like it was academic problems that stemmed from last semester/quarter.  Anyways, looks like the conference title is once again (although it was kind of a surprise last year) gonna be a three dog race.
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: NWCer on September 20, 2007, 02:22:24 am
Thanks 509, not good news for Willamette, or the conference, the better players that are in the league, the better for the league overall I say.

Wouldn't count Pacific out of the race just yet, may want to think about making it a 4 dog race, although the history is not there like it is on Palatine Hill, in Tacoma, or Spokane, but I think this may be the year Lowry breaks them through, just a prediction I'm throwing out there based on hearsay about their transfers and a solid core of returners.

Why is there only 3 playoff spots in the tourney anyway, does anyone have any insight on that?  Wouldn't it make sense just to have a round figure like 4?

Crazy early-loose-non committal-in good fun predictions:

1st and 2nd to LC and UPS (any order)
3rd and 4th to Whitworth and Pacific (any order)
5th and 6th to PLU and Willamette (any order)
Linfield, Fox, and Whitman in the bottom 3rd (any order)

will make more solid predictions when we hear more recruiting news and see some rosters, but maybe this will liven the board up...........
Title: Re: Northwest Conference
Post by: (509)Rat on September 20, 2007, 03:05:40 am
Makin it a 4 team tourney gives no reward to the conference champ...other than you get to play th