Thinking Juniata could have a great year. They have a strong senior group that may have a chip on their shoulder.
Thinking Juniata could have a great year. They have a strong senior group that may have a chip on their shoulder.
Good point Charles.
Hey Dmac:
Anyway you get Scranton to the Hoopsville Invitational next year?
Question for Dave:
The D3 Hoops Top 25 is voted on on a weekly basis. With semesters ending this week and some schools next week, there are teams that have no games until the New Year. There are other teams that may have 3-4 games left between now and the New Year. How are those two scenarios looked at by the voters. Would a team lose votes if they don't play for almost 2-4 weeks, or are they voted on based upon YTD body of work regardless of how long they may have been off or don't have a game.
Hope the question makes sense. Not thinking of anyone in particular just a general question.
Thanks!
Question for Dave:
The D3 Hoops Top 25 is voted on on a weekly basis. With semesters ending this week and some schools next week, there are teams that have no games until the New Year. There are other teams that may have 3-4 games left between now and the New Year. How are those two scenarios looked at by the voters. Would a team lose votes if they don't play for almost 2-4 weeks, or are they voted on based upon YTD body of work regardless of how long they may have been off or don't have a game.
Hope the question makes sense. Not thinking of anyone in particular just a general question.
Thanks!
Catholic and Scranton with bad losses over the weekend.
Catholic and Scranton with bad losses over the weekend.
However Scranton's loss was inconference.
Guess this Weds when Cabrini plays Randolph Macon maybe things will get even more clear for all these teams depending upon who wins. A Cabrini win could validate their position, while a Randolph Macon win could validate the losses by Scranton and Catholic as quality losses.
Catholic and Scranton with bad losses over the weekend.
Would really love to see Cabrini play Franklin and Marshall as well. Never know down the road.F&M's team is not as strong as the last 5 years. This match would have been better then.
Would really love to see Cabrini play Franklin and Marshall as well. Never know down the road.F&M's team is not as strong as the last 5 years. This match would have been better then.
Good morning, Ronk - it's just maddening that the powers that be would be trying to dilute D3 sports that will always be so near and dear to my heart. First the very formation of the Landmark (like-minded :(), and now this whole conference realignment possibility. We've been following D3, specifically Del Val for 17 years now, and had just begin to notice in the past couple of years a real uptick in attendance and general buzz. Now this - maybe they'll change their minds - I CERTAINLY hope so!
Well Dickinson looks like a buzz saw. Running over good teams at home, on the road, in region and out of region. The Devils have beaten athletic teams who play at crazy fast tempos and teams that are methodical, fundamental and play a grind you out game. They may not lose for a while.well the jinx is alive.
Not sure what happened to the results of the last poll... but I have started a new one. Enjoy.
Not sure what happened to the results of the last poll... but I have started a new one. Enjoy.
Dave:
How would you rank the conferences this year that you listed above?
Another question: If a ranked team loses a game/games on a neutral site compared to at home, how much more weight is carried between the two? Would Dickinson's win over Guilford at RMC be stronger if it were at Guilford? I guess the other side would be would Messiahs win be stronger since it was at Guilford? I've been looking for an example of this question and it played out perfect for me this week to ask with two Mid-Atlantic teams facing a ranked opponent at a neutral site and at the ranked teams home court.
Thanks! Great show so far!
Nice win for the Fords over DeSalles today.
Not sure what happened to the results of the last poll... but I have started a new one. Enjoy.
Dave:
How would you rank the conferences this year that you listed above?
Another question: If a ranked team loses a game/games on a neutral site compared to at home, how much more weight is carried between the two? Would Dickinson's win over Guilford at RMC be stronger if it were at Guilford? I guess the other side would be would Messiahs win be stronger since it was at Guilford? I've been looking for an example of this question and it played out perfect for me this week to ask with two Mid-Atlantic teams facing a ranked opponent at a neutral site and at the ranked teams home court.
Thanks! Great show so far!
Nice win for the Fords over DeSalles today.
Ranking the conferences is tough for me as I don't think I have enough data as it were... but off the cuff top of my head for discussions sake:
1 - Capital Athletic
2 - MAC Commonwealth
3 - Landmark
4 - MAC Freedom
5 - Centennial
6 - Colonial States Athletic
As for how the games are weighed... I am assuming you aren't talking about that in a SOS point of view. My answer may surprise you... considering the games were all played in the holiday break, travel and location aren't as big a deal for me. Neutral and home/away are equal because usually the stands are not that filled and not that crazy considering the student-bodies are at home, not at the games. Also per your example, Guilford has lost three in a row and that tells me a win isn't as big a deal as you would think (though, for each team it is still a significant win over a good team from a very difficult conference).
Now, Dickinson only traveled to Ashland, Virginia versus North Carolina as Messiah did to win their game, so I would think that Messiah's win is weighed more because of the travel. However, the distractions of classes isn't a factor and the student-athlete's schedule is easier than during the academic year... so a long trip isn't that challenging. The schedule isn't being squeezed into a tight academic schedule and students aren't on the bus tired from pulling all-nighters or studying on the bus for upcoming exams or papers.
I also consider coming back from break when teams are sometimes rusty versus playing a team after a couple of games are under your belt.
Now, to give you an answer... I would consider the Dickinson win to be weighed more since it was more in a "rusty" time of the year and was a huge point-spread. Messiah's win though is their first significant victory and tells me as a Top 25 voter their start to the season isn't just because they haven't really played any challenging teams.
Both teams are not in my Top 25 going into my current ballot and whether either makes and whom will depend on some of these factors and the rest of their resumes.
Does that make sense?
my top four:
1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Scranton
4. Catholic
my top four:
1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Scranton
4. Catholic
Anyone care to put up their current top 5 regional rankings?
I would go:
Cabrini
Wesley
Messiah
Dickinson
St. Mary's
my top four:
1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Scranton
4. Catholic
Anyone care to put up their current top 5 regional rankings?
I would go:
Cabrini
Wesley
Messiah
Dickinson
St. Mary's
I'd stick Juniata 4th since they beat Dickinson @ Dickinson.
I ran into St. Mary's Coach Harney on the recruiting trail tonight-he's a wonder with the 2-hr trip(1 way) on a foggy nite and a 3 1/2 hr trip to York tomorrow 4 a game.
When Wesley beats Cabrini, I wonder if any of your rankings would still have Cabrini as number one in region.
After tonite's action, my revised rankings:
1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Mary Washington
4. Dickinson
5. Messiah
6. St. Mary's
I wouldn't have F&M any where close to to this list nor any other Centennial school. Scranton could certainly be part of the conversation, but they aren't here right now. There are also other schools in the MAC Commonwealth that might come up into the conversation and in the MAC Freedom as well.
Ronk, I think you nailed it with the rankings , only thing I would change is maybe Messiah, just a gut feeling they will fade a bit.
Great reply, Dave thanks! CNU certainly is realizing the depth of the Mid Atlantic. That's not to say they can't get hot and reel off a bunch of wins. Teams will beat each other at the top of the CAC. The same can be said about the MACC. I agree they are the two conferences who will be represented by multiple teams.
Six weeks can help and hurt a lot of teams post-season chances. The teams who should be there will win between now and then. The teams who have just got off to hot starts will show if they can't sustain success and can stay healthy!
CCHoopster - I was at the game and tweeting accordingly :) - it was the second best game I saw this season (in person).
Messiah isn't fading away... they are a really good basketball and incredibly well coached. As one coach recently pointed out to me (and I noticed), they will be running a play on offense and halfway through that play will change the play call for an opportunity. I didn't see them come out of timeouts with a wasted possession or defensive opportunity, they move the ball so well it's amazing, they are stout defensively, and they are incredibly well disciplined (neither team had anyone in foul trouble halfway through the first overtime). Messiah and Stevenson will battle it out for the conference regular season and tournament championship and if they both play well and continue winning... they will both be in the NCAA tournament with maybe one of them hosting (both SOS numbers should be very good).
I have had the same feeling about Stevenson on the road you did until I looked at it better.
- Last season they weren't that good finishing the season 10-5 at home and 6-5 on the road. That included a 4-5 record at home and a 5-4 record on the road in the conference (5-5 counting the first round of the conference tournament).
- This season the Mustangs are so far 6-1 at home and 5-2 on the road (including neutral games) including 4-0 in the conference at home and 2-1 on the road... a very remarkable improvement. In fact, going back to January 28 last season the Mustangs have only lost four games on the road of the eleven they have played.
I think Stevenson is starting to prove they can win on the road. The Albright loss was certainly eyebrow raising, but that is a very well coached team that seems to be figuring things out right now. The other loss was to Oglethorpe who has lost just one game this season, it was a one-point loss, and the Stormy Petrels are now ranked 24th.
As for the CAC... one of them may move out of the official rankings, but they will be close. Thus if a lot of teams are taken from the Mid-Atlantic as at-large bids a fourth CAC team could be sitting at the table near the end of the process.
I think the Mid-Atlantic will see more teams in the NCAA tournament this season than in recent memory. The Atlantic and East Regions just don't have a lot of teams if any that will get at-large bids eliminating some of the eight contenders at the table each round. Obviously it also depends on how many upsets take place around the country in that last week.
Here is what I can say with confidence assuming the trends with teams continues:
- CSAC and Centennial will only get one team in the NCAA tournament as long as Cabrini and Dickinson win their tournaments. Those conferences get two teams in if Cabrini and Dickinson lose - at least Cabrini would be a national bubble bursting loss.
- MAC Freedom will get just one team in... period.
- Landmark potentially could get two teams in, but only if the top of the conference buttons things up and doesn't take any bad losses here on out. Those two teams would be Juniata and Scranton.- MAC Commonwealth will probably get two teams in baring an upset (Messiah and Stevenson), but if there is an upset of one of those teams before the championship game... a third team from the conference getting in will depend on how many bubble-bursting upsets take place around the country.
- CAC could get three teams in the tournament (St. Mary's, Wesley, Mary Washington) and potentially will have a fourth (Christopher Newport) sitting at the table to be considered late in the process. (Ironically, CNU's move to the Mid-Atlantic probably was seen as being beneficial for at-large chances for them because they were leaving a crowded South Region. However, their first year in the Mid-Atlantic has revealed a very crowded region as well.)
Of course... ALL of this could change as we still have six weeks of basketball to play in the regular season.
Yes... but doesn't change my opinion. Catholic could be a sleeper... but they have also struggled and are not in a position to get into the NCAA tournament without winning the conference.
Great reply, Dave thanks! CNU certainly is realizing the depth of the Mid Atlantic. That's not to say they can't get hot and reel off a bunch of wins. Teams will beat each other at the top of the CAC. The same can be said about the MACC. I agree they are the two conferences who will be represented by multiple teams.
Six weeks can help and hurt a lot of teams post-season chances. The teams who should be there will win between now and then. The teams who have just got off to hot starts will show if they can't sustain success and can stay healthy!
Let's be honest... the Mid-Atlantic has not been this deep in a very long time. I am indicating that CNU's move happened to be at the worst timing wise... since if they were in last year or the year before, etc... it wouldn't have been as deep.
I should clarify... the Mid-Atlantic Region will have nine teams officially ranked in regional rankings.
My revised RRs after last weeek's action:
1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Mary Washington
4. Dickinson
5. Messiah
6. Scranton
7. Stevenson
8. St. Mary's
9. Christopher Newport
10. McDaniel
At the moment barring conference tourney upsets, MId-Atlantic Pool C candidates, look like probably 2 of CAC and Stevenson/Messiah loser and possibly, McDaniel, Scranton, Juniata
Scranton plays Catholic this Saturday. Should be a good game and help flush out where these two teams sit.thinking Catholic and Scranton will play 3 times this year.
1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Mary Washington
4. St. Mary's
5. Dickinson
6. Messiah- (only dropping them 2 spots losing on a buzzer beater on the road to a 13-4 team and other loss to Stevenson- I can see swapping them and Scranton too)
7. Scranton
8. CNU
9. McDaniel
10. Stevenson
Considering SOS numbers... I don't see SMC that far down... especially below Scranton and Dickinson. They may even be above Messiah.
Did I miss any?
Immaculata No. 2 Cabrini 6:30 PM • * LS V
No. 12 Mary Washington St. Mary's (Md.) 8:00 PM • * LS V
No. 17 Messiah Lycoming 8:00 PM • *
Gettysburg Dickinson 6:00 PM • * V
Juniata Catholic 7:00 PM • * LS V
Scranton Merchant Marine 7:00 PM • * LS V
Did I miss any?
Immaculata No. 2 Cabrini 6:30 PM • * LS V
No. 12 Mary Washington St. Mary's (Md.) 8:00 PM • * LS V
No. 17 Messiah Lycoming 8:00 PM • *
Gettysburg Dickinson 6:00 PM • * V
Juniata Catholic 7:00 PM • * LS V
Scranton Merchant Marine 7:00 PM • * LS V
Del Val is at DeSalles. DeSalles can get a tie for first if they win.
My revised RRs after tonite's action
1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Mary Washington
4. Scranton
5. Dickinson
6. McDaniel
7. Messiah
8. St. Mary's
9. Christopher Newport
It sounds like Wesley is not putting in a bid to host.
Do tomorrow's Regional Rankings come out before tomorrow nights games? Pretty sure the obvious answer is yes. Also, do they include games played this week, last night and tonight?
Thanks.
CC
Do tomorrow's Regional Rankings come out before tomorrow nights games? Pretty sure the obvious answer is yes. Also, do they include games played this week, last night and tonight?
Thanks.
CC
They are through Sunday's games. Generally we see them sometime after 3 p.m. ET but it's not set for a specific time.
Perhaps the D-3 "voters" need a new slide rule????????
Not even close!
You could be ranked very highly with just 24 ballots, but it appears that only a few people think Scranton is worthy of votes at the moment. It's not just Dave.
You could be ranked very highly with just 24 ballots, but it appears that only a few people think Scranton is worthy of votes at the moment. It's not just Dave.
He is the puppet master! ;D
Dave:
Whether or not the Top 25 voters work off the same criteria as the NCAA committee is not the issue.
One would think that at some point a degree of common sense would prevail over the seemingly never ending supply of geographic
provincialism.
Just because Cabrini lost doesn't necessarily mean they will fall a spot. Also the RRO comes into play and Cabrini has at least three games there that are all wins. They also have a head-to-head win over Scranton. Basically, the only criteria I see Cabrini not winning against Scranton is SOS and that very well may mean Cabrini stays #1.
You need to understand, the criteria reads "results" and such... so they can look at the point spread and such and the regional committees are tasked with understanding their regions to understand the results. So, believe it or not... a lot of what you are describing is taking into account. However, SOS and other criteria are also important and may outweigh what you think is important.
Every team, every case, every situation is evaluated individually, so there is no hard and fast rule as to what is more important than other items in a general sense.
I believe that Cabrini and Scranton are pretty much locks to host. I doubt that any other team will host in the region. I think Stevenson might come up short too, depending on what happens today, in getting in. Messiah and St. Mary's definitely played themselves out. You are correct about Dickinson, they shouldn't have lost, they will put somebody on the outs.
When is the first time top 25 rankings are released? Why is there such a gap between pre-season rankings and the first official release? If the committee can come up with pre season rankings why can't they come up with weekly or bi weekly in season rankings earlier? I am assuming its because they need more of a sample size to do justice and avoid making it an early season crap shoot. If that is the case, why even do pre season rankings since that would be the biggest chance of a crap shoot since there is no data or sample size of any sort. Not complaining just wondering.... With top 25 teams losing, would be excited to see how it would change through out the whole season/
When is the first time top 25 rankings are released? Why is there such a gap between pre-season rankings and the first official release? If the committee can come up with pre season rankings why can't they come up with weekly or bi weekly in season rankings earlier? I am assuming its because they need more of a sample size to do justice and avoid making it an early season crap shoot. If that is the case, why even do pre season rankings since that would be the biggest chance of a crap shoot since there is no data or sample size of any sort. Not complaining just wondering.... With top 25 teams losing, would be excited to see how it would change through out the whole season/
Considering there were a sizable number of teams who did not open their seasons this weekend, I think it makes sense to wait. A preseason poll is based on last year's performance and projection. Once you actually have games being played, it's nice to wait until everyone has played.
When is the first time top 25 rankings are released? Why is there such a gap between pre-season rankings and the first official release? If the committee can come up with pre season rankings why can't they come up with weekly or bi weekly in season rankings earlier? I am assuming its because they need more of a sample size to do justice and avoid making it an early season crap shoot. If that is the case, why even do pre season rankings since that would be the biggest chance of a crap shoot since there is no data or sample size of any sort. Not complaining just wondering.... With top 25 teams losing, would be excited to see how it would change through out the whole season/
There is always a delay to the first poll to the second week of the season. There are too many questions and results that need to be sorted out to bring a poll out in the very first Monday after the season has started. I rather have more info in front of me then basing my voting on one to three games. Thus, the poll has never been released on the very first Monday/Tuesday.
And pre-season polls are part of the business... so you are going to get those all of the time.
Considering how low CUA's SOS is... I don't know if that overcomes a Hopkins loss... but who knows. SMC is also dealing with a below .500 SOS, maybe Lycoming who has a decent SOS replaces them?
CUA: .476(!)
Hopkins: .531
Dickinson: .532
F&M: .498
Scranton: .509
St. Mary's: .482
Lycoming: .550
That spread of .06 between CUA and Hopkins I just don't think will trump basically identical records.
D-mac I'm with you 100% on Catholic's schedule. For years I wished Catholic would stop playing Haverford (no disrespect meant, but it didn't do anything for SOS), and it seems that while that wish was granted, they were replaced with Frostburg, another team that doesn't help. As for York, that was at the holiday tournament and CUA always seems to schedule one "bad" team, but you're right that doesn't help.
With DeSales, it doesn't ever seem to matter how good or bad CUA is, they cannot EVER win in DeSales gym. It doesn't look good to the outside world, but that was an entirely expected loss from my point of view (one could wonder why I keep driving to watch them go there to lose). The St. Vincent loss only gets more disappointing as the season has gone on mainly because CUA would've won that game had they not left their defense in the locker-room at halftime.
In regards to Davidson, I can do nothing but shake my head as CUA continues with this insistence on playing a D-1 opponent. It looks great for recruits, but like you said in the long run it is a meaningless game. Recruits will be impressed with NCAA tournament appearances
I listened to your Hoopsville interview with Coach Howes and did find it a little troubling that he admitted he hasn't looked at the SOS numbers or regional rankings. It's nice to think he's focused on winning the AQ, but losses do happen and you don't want to be left at the table on selection day wondering what else could have been done.
| Time | Guest | School |
| 10:15am | Connie Tilley | St. Norbert (WBB) - WBCA Center Court |
| 10:40am | Jamie Purdy | Peidmont (WBB) |
| 11:00am | Keri Carollo | UW-Whitewater (WBB) - Nat'l Committee Chair |
| 11:20am | Brent Pollari | Saint Mary's (Minn.) (WBB) |
| 11:40am | Kent Madsen | No. 21 Wheaton (Ill.) (WBB) |
| 12:00pm | Russell Loyd | Rose-Hulman (MBB) |
| 12:20pm | Kevin Broderick | Nazareth (MBB) |
| 12:40pm | Justin Scott | Arcadia (MBB) |
| 1:00pm | Sam Hargraves | No. 12 Alma (MBB) |
| 1:20pm | Lenny Reich | Mount Union (SID) |
| 1:40pm | Maureen Webster | Clarkson (WBB) |
| 2:00pm | Betsy Witman | York (Pa.) (WBB) |
| 2:20pm | Sara Lee | Denison (WBB) |
| 2:40pm | Klay Kneuppel | Wisconsin Lutheran (MBB) |
| 3:00pm | Brian Van Haaften | Buena Vista (MBB) - Nat'l Committee Chair |
| 3:30pm | Sydney Moss | No. 1 Thomas More (WBB) |
| 3:45pm | Aaron Rousell | Bucknell (WBB) - former Chicago coach |
| 4:00pm | Tim Shanahan | Staten Island (WBB) |
| 4:20 | Pat Cunningham | Trinity (Texas) (MBB) - NABC Coach's Corner |
| 4:50pm | Bubba Smith | Sewanee (MBB) |
| 5:15pm | Ben Strong | Former Guilford All-American |
| 5:30pm | Kevin Connors | ESPN SportsCenter Anchor - Ithaca alumnus |
| 6:00pm | Kristen Dowling | Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (WBB) |
| 6:20pm | Allison Coleman | Sage (WBB) |
| 6:40pm | Landry Kosmalski | Swarthmore (MBB) |
| 7:00pm | Dave Niland | No. 23 Penn State-Behrend (MBB) |
| 7:20pm | Aaron Galletta | Lasell (MBB) |
| 7:40pm | John Baron | Gwynedd-Mercy (MBB) |
| 8:00pm | ||
| 8:20pm | ||
| 8:40pm | Melissa Hodgdon | Wheaton (Mass.) (WBB) |
| 9:00pm | G.P. Gromacki | No. 2 Amherst (WBB) |
| 9:20pm | James Wagner | |
| 9:40pm | HAPPY HOUR | Free-for-all of calls, tweets, and fun! |
Knight Slappy's Mid-Atlantic Regional Ranking projection
Data updated through Sunday 2/7. We'll see the first regional rankings using this data on Wednesday.
http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/
Susquehanna
Christopher Newport
Salisbury
Catholic
F&M
Scranton
I have Susque higher, mostly because of winning @ Scranton while CNU lost to Scranton @ home.
Yeah, the amount of regional wins would probably be CNU's only advantage, as I think they would both be 2-1 versus rro...
Below is my first edition of 'Sea Gull Bracketology' for the 2017-18 season for The Flyer, the student newspaper at Salisbury University. It features analysis of the non-conference schedule for Salisbury and also the general blueprint of the Capital Athletic Conference. Let me know what you think!
https://thesuflyer.com/2018/01/22/2018-sea-gull-bracketology-jan-22/ (https://thesuflyer.com/2018/01/22/2018-sea-gull-bracketology-jan-22/)
New bleachers are set to come to Salisbury's Maggs Gym in May; SU Athletics leadership has started a community petition to make a new indoor facility a 'top priority.' I sat down with SU Athletics Director Dr. Gerry DiBartolo to discuss it all.
https://thesuflyer.com/2018/02/12/petition-circulates-as-su-athletics-backs-new-indoor-facility/
New bleachers are set to come to Salisbury's Maggs Gym in May; SU Athletics leadership has started a community petition to make a new indoor facility a 'top priority.' I sat down with SU Athletics Director Dr. Gerry DiBartolo to discuss it all.
https://thesuflyer.com/2018/02/12/petition-circulates-as-su-athletics-backs-new-indoor-facility/
With all the new buildings they've put up down there, there can't be much more they need to do besides a new athletic facility, right?
Nice jump to #2 for the Captains, which I wasn't expecting...also didn't think York would hang on to 1st...exciting days to come!
Nice jump to #2 for the Captains, which I wasn't expecting...also didn't think York would hang on to 1st...exciting days to come!
Those first 6 teams are basically even at this point. You could make arguments for just about any order.