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Posting Up (Division III basketball) => Men's Basketball => Mid-Atlantic Region => Topic started by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 11, 2013, 10:12:58 pm

Title: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 11, 2013, 10:12:58 pm
I thought it might make sense to start a general Mid-Atlantic conversation. There are plenty of board members who talk about teams from different conferences in difference conference pages... so why not bring those general conversations into here. Also, we can discuss regional rankings, NCAA tournament chances, etc. regarding the entire region.

And to make it interesting, I am starting a poll as to who the best team in the region is as of the middle of December. We can change that question every week if we want.

So let the conversation begin!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on December 11, 2013, 11:33:37 pm
 My current regional ranking:

1 - Cabrini
2 - Scranton
3 - Muhlenberg
4 - Juniata
5 - Wesley
6 - Stevenson
7 - St. Mary's
8 - Dickinson
9 - Catholic
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on December 12, 2013, 09:03:07 am
Thinking Catholic will get better and better and better......would be interesting to see Cabrini and Catholic battle it out late in the year,  thinking the ranking would be more like below as the weeks progress.

1. Cabrini
2. St Marys
3. Catholic
4. Scranton
5. Dickinson
6. Alvernia
7. Stevenson
8. Wesley
9. Franklin and Marshall


Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: NEPAFAN on December 12, 2013, 10:21:46 am
my top four:


1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Scranton
4. Catholic
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on December 12, 2013, 08:27:19 pm
So what surprise team or what surprise teams will be regionally ranked the first ranking? Be interested to see who everyone would think! Kind of like Arcadia from last year, who sort of came out of the basement into Regional Rankings.

Great idea starting this forum!!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Charles on December 13, 2013, 05:32:49 am
Thinking Juniata could have a great year. They have a strong senior group that may have a chip on their shoulder.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: NEPAFAN on December 13, 2013, 08:28:27 am
Thinking Juniata could have a great year. They have a strong senior group that may have a chip on their shoulder.


Good point Charles.

Hey Dmac:

Anyway you get Scranton to the Hoopsville Invitational next year?
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on December 13, 2013, 10:01:02 am
I was thinking Juniata, Messiah and possibly a CAC team.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 13, 2013, 12:08:18 pm
Thinking Juniata could have a great year. They have a strong senior group that may have a chip on their shoulder.


Good point Charles.

Hey Dmac:

Anyway you get Scranton to the Hoopsville Invitational next year?

Ask... they are unavailable.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on December 14, 2013, 11:31:11 am
Question for Dave:

The D3 Hoops Top 25 is voted on on a weekly basis. With semesters ending this week and some schools next week, there are teams that have no games until the New Year. There are other teams that may have 3-4 games left between now and the New Year. How are those two scenarios looked at by the voters. Would a team lose votes if they don't play for almost 2-4 weeks, or are they voted on based upon YTD body of work regardless of how long they may have been off or don't have a game.

Hope the question makes sense. Not thinking of anyone in particular just a general question.

Thanks!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on December 14, 2013, 11:39:29 am
absolutely nice question there CC Hoopster, I have often wondered this myself, and not to mention how the teams come out of a layoff or those who are playing going into a break; it must have an impact on play based on the time off variable not the true variable of talent etc.... therefore your point makes sense if placing votes and positions on rankings at this point in the season when comparing teams.  Not only do some teams historically come out of the gate stronger after the new year begins, but sometime others begin to start getting tired earlier since their play has not stopped. Will be interesting to hear how this criteria effects the voting process at all or if it is not taken into consideration at all.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 14, 2013, 09:52:47 pm
Question for Dave:

The D3 Hoops Top 25 is voted on on a weekly basis. With semesters ending this week and some schools next week, there are teams that have no games until the New Year. There are other teams that may have 3-4 games left between now and the New Year. How are those two scenarios looked at by the voters. Would a team lose votes if they don't play for almost 2-4 weeks, or are they voted on based upon YTD body of work regardless of how long they may have been off or don't have a game.

Hope the question makes sense. Not thinking of anyone in particular just a general question.

Thanks!

Kind of depends on if other teams do something to deserve getting moved up. Sometimes teams do slide during the time off but usually they are teams who haven't played anyone of real note.

Voters also take at least one week off during the holidays as well.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 15, 2013, 12:07:39 am
Question for Dave:

The D3 Hoops Top 25 is voted on on a weekly basis. With semesters ending this week and some schools next week, there are teams that have no games until the New Year. There are other teams that may have 3-4 games left between now and the New Year. How are those two scenarios looked at by the voters. Would a team lose votes if they don't play for almost 2-4 weeks, or are they voted on based upon YTD body of work regardless of how long they may have been off or don't have a game.

Hope the question makes sense. Not thinking of anyone in particular just a general question.

Thanks!

Yeah... there isn't a hard and fast rule for at least myself - I can't speak to other voters. I consider a team is on break and honestly wouldn't "punish" them except if a few other teams have made an argument they should move ahead of them... but then I am considering more of the entire body of work. Now, teams who haven't played have certainly moved up my ballot, but that's because teams ahead of them have started to under-perform their ranking... and again the entire body of work is considered.

I will say that a team who hasn't played in four weeks has a disadvantage because more and more teams around them and in the poll are playing... but that is because their body of work is starting to become easier (or harder) to compare.

As for not playing up to par when they get back from a break like that... it's a case-by-case scenario. Did a team struggles in their first game against a quality opponent or was it against someone they should have beaten? Also, there usually is more than just one game to look at. Pat mentioned the fact there is at least a week off during the holidays from the poll... that usually gives voters plenty of data to work off of (though, I remember last year Vir. Wesleyan was the #1 team maybe and while the poll was off for a week, they lost like three games of what ended up being four in a row... that made voting a bit interesting when we came back).

I hope that all makes sense.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on December 15, 2013, 12:38:12 pm
Thank you Dave and Pat seems logical....it seems it all comes down to how well a team plays with some slack for being a little rusty.  Interesting. 
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: NEPAFAN on December 16, 2013, 01:11:42 pm
Catholic and Scranton with bad losses over the weekend.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Charles on December 16, 2013, 01:16:56 pm
Catholic and Scranton with bad losses over the weekend.

However Scranton's loss was inconference.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Reserved Seat on December 16, 2013, 01:23:27 pm
How true.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: NEPAFAN on December 16, 2013, 02:26:58 pm
Catholic and Scranton with bad losses over the weekend.

However Scranton's loss was inconference.

And Catholic got destroyed by a team Scranton beat.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Reserved Seat on December 16, 2013, 02:39:40 pm
Certainly making Cabrini look good.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on December 16, 2013, 05:12:37 pm
Guess this Weds when Cabrini plays Randolph Macon maybe things will get even more clear for all these teams depending upon who wins.  A Cabrini win could validate their position, while a Randolph Macon win could validate the losses by Scranton and Catholic as quality losses.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: NEPAFAN on December 16, 2013, 07:10:41 pm
Guess this Weds when Cabrini plays Randolph Macon maybe things will get even more clear for all these teams depending upon who wins.  A Cabrini win could validate their position, while a Randolph Macon win could validate the losses by Scranton and Catholic as quality losses.

Scranton beat Randolph Macon...
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 17, 2013, 12:41:17 am
Catholic and Scranton with bad losses over the weekend.

Well I have said that Merchant Marine is going to be a team people overlook and may finish third in the conference. Certainly the way Scranton lost is bad, but USMMA is a solid team being coached by a really good coach. Catholic on the other hand... eh.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on December 17, 2013, 09:18:52 am
Big week for Dickinson this week. At Catholic tonight, home versus Alvernia tomorrow night. They come out 2-0 and that's a big week! Regardless of Catholics most recent loss.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on December 18, 2013, 07:40:05 pm
Impressive Cabrini after an 11 day layoff and last game before break, must admit its impressive not to mention the team is always undersized. 
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on December 18, 2013, 07:40:55 pm
Dave, now I see why they got a first place vote. 
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: mailsy on December 18, 2013, 08:57:30 pm
They're good.   :) Off for 15 days.  They get to enjoy the rest of the year undefeated.  :D Next test is Wesley next year. 
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on December 19, 2013, 09:16:57 am
Mailsy, that should be a great game.  Hope to be there.  Will be interesting to see Cabrini play Dickinson as well.  I know they scrimmaged with them this year, but AWM did not play and it was just a scrimmage.  Would really love to see Cabrini play Franklin and Marshall as well. Never know down the road.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Reserved Seat on December 19, 2013, 09:44:34 am
Would really love to see Cabrini play Franklin and Marshall as well. Never know down the road.
F&M's team is not as strong as the last 5 years.  This match would have been better then.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: mailsy on December 19, 2013, 10:56:02 pm
Would really love to see Cabrini play Franklin and Marshall as well. Never know down the road.
F&M's team is not as strong as the last 5 years.  This match would have been better then.


Two years ago with Milligan and Lemons would have been quite a match up. A shame F&M couldn't get to the finals that year(elite 8) with Cabrini.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Reserved Seat on December 20, 2013, 08:29:40 am
That would have been an interesting game.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on December 20, 2013, 05:26:10 pm
Indeed gentlemen. 
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: mailsy on December 24, 2013, 10:01:59 pm
Since this is going to be the last year that Cabrini and the CSAC are in the Mid-Atlantic Region. As a current member I wanted to wish all my fellow Mid-Atlantic posters and followers a Safe, Happy and Merry Christmas!! :)
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: kate on December 25, 2013, 10:36:14 am
Mailsy, Merry Christmas to you!  Where will Cabrini and the CSAC be moving to?  I REALLy need someone to talk basketball with!  Thought I kept up, but apparently - NOT!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: mailsy on December 25, 2013, 02:21:42 pm
There are a two conferences moving to the Atlantic Region from the Mid-Atlantic in 2014-15 . CSAC and MAC Freedom.
Here is the link  http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2013/02/regional-realignment-coming
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: kate on December 25, 2013, 02:36:28 pm
Mailsy, Than You!  Don't know how this Major turn of events escaped me, but at least our two conferences are together.  Seems strange to segregate the Commonwealth though - have to go back & re-read the whole thing.  Thanks again!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: kate on December 25, 2013, 03:49:51 pm
Strange thought just hit me - will we still be called the MAC, or the "AC" - noooooo!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: mailsy on December 25, 2013, 05:13:31 pm
Kate,

Your right just thought of that.  :D
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on December 25, 2013, 10:44:33 pm
Kate,
  They'll never find you(MAC-F) in the Atlantic region. It was a nice 100 years while it lasted. >:(
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: kate on December 26, 2013, 10:16:17 am
Good morning, Ronk - it's just maddening that the powers that be would be trying to dilute D3 sports that will always be so near and dear to my heart.  First the very formation of the Landmark (like-minded  :(), and now this whole conference realignment possibility.  We've been following D3, specifically Del Val for 17 years now, and had just begin to notice in the past couple of years a real uptick in attendance and general buzz.  Now this - maybe they'll change their minds - I CERTAINLY hope so!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on December 27, 2013, 09:29:21 am
Keep Calm thinking it will work out in the end.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on December 28, 2013, 11:26:58 pm
Well Dickinson looks like a buzz saw. Running over good teams at home, on the road, in region and out of region. The Devils have beaten athletic teams who play at crazy fast tempos and teams that are methodical, fundamental and play a grind you out game. They may not lose for a while.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 30, 2013, 01:40:35 am
Good morning, Ronk - it's just maddening that the powers that be would be trying to dilute D3 sports that will always be so near and dear to my heart.  First the very formation of the Landmark (like-minded  :(), and now this whole conference realignment possibility.  We've been following D3, specifically Del Val for 17 years now, and had just begin to notice in the past couple of years a real uptick in attendance and general buzz.  Now this - maybe they'll change their minds - I CERTAINLY hope so!

First off... this isn't a possibility... it is happening next year. Second... the NCAA had to do something to even regions out. The East and the Atlantic Regions are badly under-populated with teams and moving the MAC Freedom and the CSAC makes sense. Those conferences are actually closer to Atlantic Region teams than Mid-Atlantic and splitting the MAC conferences into different regions helps give them better chances to shine. Furthermore, we have an imbalance with some men's and women's conferences actually represented in different regions in the same sport. This balances those problems and makes regional rankings and ultimately at-large selections more even in terms of teams being considered at the "table."

I disagree this dilutes the game or the division and new conferences doesn't do it either. There is always change and to expect everything to stay status quo is naive. And to not like the creation of the Landmark due to like-minded institutions ignores the fact the NESCAC, Centennial, MIAC and many conferences in the history of not only Division III but all divisions (i.e. the initial creation of the Big East) have been created completely on that basis. Heck, conferences like the SUNYAC, WIAC, MASCAC, and NJAC are conferences created by like-minded state schools.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Charles on December 30, 2013, 07:54:40 am
Well Dickinson looks like a buzz saw. Running over good teams at home, on the road, in region and out of region. The Devils have beaten athletic teams who play at crazy fast tempos and teams that are methodical, fundamental and play a grind you out game. They may not lose for a while.
well the jinx is alive.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Reserved Seat on December 30, 2013, 12:35:00 pm
It's never good to say someone's playing well, because they'll prove you wrong.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: kate on December 30, 2013, 01:25:35 pm
All easy for you to say, Dave - you guys stay in the mid Atlantic, except you are connected to Stevenson - right?   As for "like minded", it's fine for state schools that have pretty much the same athletic rules regarding eligibility and scholarships, but for small private colleges & small state schools, I just find it odd.  I'm not for a second trying to diminish D3 sports, but come on, we only wish they generated the attendance & finances of the big guys.  I'm thrilled when great athletes choose to attend our small d3 institutions - just don't like it one bit when some of them start feeling "different", or downright pious, cause, really no one is.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: kate on December 30, 2013, 01:55:40 pm
A few household chores later here, but the only reason I can see "like minded" small private colleges banding together would be to do joint research projects and to apply for grants.  Personally I don't see the athletic departments entering the equation - just my opinion.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 30, 2013, 06:25:06 pm
Kate - I associated with a number of small schools... working for none of them full-time. In fact, I am working for Stevenson, McDaniel and Goucher primiary this academic year while also doing work for Messiah and St. Mary's while possibly doing some consulting for several other schools not only in the Mid-Atlantic, but also the Atlantic region and others around the country. That is the life of a consultant, broadcaster and producer/director in a freelance world. And with my work for D3sports.com... my "allegiance" is to no one in particular let alone a region, conference or team... so something like regional realignment is looked at by me in an overall point of view.

As for "like-minded" decisions, let's not forget one major thing... being this is Division III... it is all about the academics and the athletics are second. The big boys in D1 do worry about the money and thus the athletics take on a more athlete-student point of view. Schools in Division III do think and act per academics first and sometimes conferences have academic cooperation as well and thus like-minded has an element of academic cooperation as well.

So yes... there is more than athletics involved and academics is part of it as you allude to regarding research projects and far more (even academic schedules!).

I understand there are those who get frustrated by these decisions by other schools and such... but it isn't something that is simple or taken lightly. There are more than coaches involved... there are ADs, Presidents and even professors who take part in these things.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: kate on December 30, 2013, 06:47:08 pm
Dave, thank you for your quick response.  Someday, before I'm physically unable to make it out to my beloved Aggie games, I would love to sit down with knowledgeable people & discuss this.  Please believe me, I'd like Nothing more than d3 sports to continue to grow!  Happy New Year!  Ps:  I certainly agree that it's about the academics!  A few wins along the way are icing on the cake :)
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Reserved Seat on December 30, 2013, 09:06:28 pm
Not all D3 schools are academically-minded when it comes to sports. ;D
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on December 31, 2013, 08:23:52 am
thinking its time for some to join the NAIA. 
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 03, 2014, 04:40:36 pm
Not sure what happened to the results of the last poll... but I have started a new one. Enjoy.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 05, 2014, 07:42:14 pm
Not sure what happened to the results of the last poll... but I have started a new one. Enjoy.

Dave:

How would you rank the conferences this year that you listed above?

Another question: If a ranked team loses a game/games on a neutral site compared to at home, how much more weight is carried between the two? Would Dickinson's win over Guilford at RMC be stronger if it were at Guilford? I guess the other side would be would Messiahs win be stronger since it was at Guilford? I've been looking for an example of this question and it played out perfect for me this week to ask with two Mid-Atlantic teams facing a ranked opponent at a neutral site and at the ranked teams home court.

Thanks! Great show so far!

Nice win for the Fords over DeSalles today.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 05, 2014, 09:41:32 pm
Not sure what happened to the results of the last poll... but I have started a new one. Enjoy.

Dave:

How would you rank the conferences this year that you listed above?

Another question: If a ranked team loses a game/games on a neutral site compared to at home, how much more weight is carried between the two? Would Dickinson's win over Guilford at RMC be stronger if it were at Guilford? I guess the other side would be would Messiahs win be stronger since it was at Guilford? I've been looking for an example of this question and it played out perfect for me this week to ask with two Mid-Atlantic teams facing a ranked opponent at a neutral site and at the ranked teams home court.

Thanks! Great show so far!

Nice win for the Fords over DeSalles today.

Ranking the conferences is tough for me as I don't think I have enough data as it were... but off the cuff top of my head for discussions sake:

1 - Capital Athletic
2 - MAC Commonwealth
3 - Landmark
4 - MAC Freedom
5 - Centennial
6 - Colonial States Athletic

As for how the games are weighed... I am assuming you aren't talking about that in a SOS point of view. My answer may surprise you... considering the games were all played in the holiday break,  travel and location aren't as big a deal for me. Neutral and home/away are equal because usually the stands are not that filled and not that crazy considering the student-bodies are at home, not at the games. Also per your example, Guilford has lost three in a row and that tells me a win isn't as big a deal as you would think (though, for each team it is still a significant win over a good team from a very difficult conference).

Now, Dickinson only traveled to Ashland, Virginia versus North Carolina as Messiah did to win their game, so I would think that Messiah's win is weighed more because of the travel. However, the distractions of classes isn't a factor and the student-athlete's schedule is easier than during the academic year... so a long trip isn't that challenging. The schedule isn't being squeezed into a tight academic schedule and students aren't on the bus tired from pulling all-nighters or studying on the bus for upcoming exams or papers.

I also consider coming back from break when teams are sometimes rusty versus playing a team after a couple of games are under your belt.

Now, to give you an answer... I would consider the Dickinson win to be weighed more since it was more in a "rusty" time of the year and was a huge point-spread. Messiah's win though is their first significant victory and tells me as a Top 25 voter their start to the season isn't just because they haven't really played any challenging teams.

Both teams are not in my Top 25 going into my current ballot and whether either makes and whom will depend on some of these factors and the rest of their resumes.

Does that make sense?
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 06, 2014, 09:08:33 am
Not sure what happened to the results of the last poll... but I have started a new one. Enjoy.

Dave:

How would you rank the conferences this year that you listed above?

Another question: If a ranked team loses a game/games on a neutral site compared to at home, how much more weight is carried between the two? Would Dickinson's win over Guilford at RMC be stronger if it were at Guilford? I guess the other side would be would Messiahs win be stronger since it was at Guilford? I've been looking for an example of this question and it played out perfect for me this week to ask with two Mid-Atlantic teams facing a ranked opponent at a neutral site and at the ranked teams home court.

Thanks! Great show so far!

Nice win for the Fords over DeSalles today.

Ranking the conferences is tough for me as I don't think I have enough data as it were... but off the cuff top of my head for discussions sake:

1 - Capital Athletic
2 - MAC Commonwealth
3 - Landmark
4 - MAC Freedom
5 - Centennial
6 - Colonial States Athletic

As for how the games are weighed... I am assuming you aren't talking about that in a SOS point of view. My answer may surprise you... considering the games were all played in the holiday break,  travel and location aren't as big a deal for me. Neutral and home/away are equal because usually the stands are not that filled and not that crazy considering the student-bodies are at home, not at the games. Also per your example, Guilford has lost three in a row and that tells me a win isn't as big a deal as you would think (though, for each team it is still a significant win over a good team from a very difficult conference).

Now, Dickinson only traveled to Ashland, Virginia versus North Carolina as Messiah did to win their game, so I would think that Messiah's win is weighed more because of the travel. However, the distractions of classes isn't a factor and the student-athlete's schedule is easier than during the academic year... so a long trip isn't that challenging. The schedule isn't being squeezed into a tight academic schedule and students aren't on the bus tired from pulling all-nighters or studying on the bus for upcoming exams or papers.

I also consider coming back from break when teams are sometimes rusty versus playing a team after a couple of games are under your belt.

Now, to give you an answer... I would consider the Dickinson win to be weighed more since it was more in a "rusty" time of the year and was a huge point-spread. Messiah's win though is their first significant victory and tells me as a Top 25 voter their start to the season isn't just because they haven't really played any challenging teams.

Both teams are not in my Top 25 going into my current ballot and whether either makes and whom will depend on some of these factors and the rest of their resumes.

Does that make sense?

Makes perfect sense and exactly what I was looking for. Thanks, Dave. I'm assuming if Guilford was to right the ship and win a few games it would make those two wins for DC and MC stronger. Either way two good out of region wins for the Mid Atlantic Region.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 06, 2014, 12:15:14 pm
Yeah... if Guilford figures things out again like they did before the break... those wins loom large for those schools. If Guilford runs through the conference, does well in the tournament, makes it to the NCAA tournament, etc. The biggest key for both teams is this: they played and beat Guilford away from home (SOS boost) while also playing a team in one of the toughest conferences in the country (which got four teams in the tourney last year) which brings with it a heck of an SOS impact... those facts could be key in February especially since their record doesn't have an extra loss (remember also that the regional record will be a team's overall record as long as they played all their games against Division III opponents and 70% of their games in-region).
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: gordonmann on January 06, 2014, 03:23:35 pm
CCHoopster:

Our Conference Guidebook compares the non-conference performance of all Mid-Atlantic Conferences last year to each other and all conferences nationally.

http://www.d3hoops.com/guidebook/2013-14/2013_Conference_Guidebook_-_Comparison.pdf

The statistics don't account for teams playing in different parts of the country.  It's easier to find non-conference teams you can schedule and beat in some regions than others.  But every time I do these stats I'm surprised how well the MAC Commonwealth fares.

And, for what it's worth, I think Dave's ranking is right based on what we know so far.  The CAC is shaping up to be a great battle between several teams in the top 50 nationally, while the other conferences will only have one team receiving Top 25 votes, if that.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 14, 2014, 10:48:33 pm
my top four:


1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Scranton
4. Catholic

Anyone care to put up their current top 5 regional rankings?

I would go:

Cabrini
Wesley
Messiah
Dickinson
St. Mary's
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on January 15, 2014, 12:22:00 am
my top four:


1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Scranton
4. Catholic

Anyone care to put up their current top 5 regional rankings?

I would go:

Cabrini
Wesley
Messiah
Dickinson
St. Mary's

 I'd stick Juniata 4th since they beat Dickinson @ Dickinson.

  I ran into St. Mary's Coach Harney on the recruiting trail tonight-he's a wonder with the 2-hr trip(1 way) on a foggy nite and a 3 1/2 hr trip to York tomorrow 4 a game.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 15, 2014, 10:09:46 am
my top four:


1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Scranton
4. Catholic

Anyone care to put up their current top 5 regional rankings?

I would go:

Cabrini
Wesley
Messiah
Dickinson
St. Mary's

 I'd stick Juniata 4th since they beat Dickinson @ Dickinson.

  I ran into St. Mary's Coach Harney on the recruiting trail tonight-he's a wonder with the 2-hr trip(1 way) on a foggy nite and a 3 1/2 hr trip to York tomorrow 4 a game.

I thought about Juniata but they lost to Washington and Jefferson. Their two losses are to W&J and Mt. Aloysius. Dickinson's are at RMC and home to Juniata. Hence the reason Juniata is receiving no Top 25 votes. Very good point though, that they beat Dickinson at home!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 15, 2014, 02:12:29 pm
In the real world of regional rankings... that head-to-head match up looms larger than we would give it credit for per your example of losing to W&J.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on January 15, 2014, 06:00:39 pm
When Wesley beats Cabrini, I wonder if any of your rankings would still have Cabrini as number one in region.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: mailsy on January 15, 2014, 11:13:22 pm
IF
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on January 15, 2014, 11:53:51 pm
When Wesley beats Cabrini, I wonder if any of your rankings would still have Cabrini as number one in region.

 It also depends on what happens between now and then.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on January 16, 2014, 12:16:36 am
 After tonite's action, my revised rankings:
 1. Cabrini
 2. Wesley
 3. Mary Washington
 4. Dickinson
 5. Messiah
 6. St. Mary's
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 16, 2014, 09:39:53 am
After tonite's action, my revised rankings:
 1. Cabrini
 2. Wesley
 3. Mary Washington
 4. Dickinson
 5. Messiah
 6. St. Mary's

I would agree with this. Thought St Mary's over Messiah but a loss in 2 OT's on the road to a team getting votes didn't warrant enough to drop them out of the top 5 for me.

Clutch: @St. Mary's and home vs Marymount. Better not slip up before Cabrini. Your rather certain Wesley will beat Cabrini. While they very well could, I wouldn't be too over confident. Your looking past a lot of games before 2/3. Better hope your Wesley squad is not doing the same.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on January 16, 2014, 09:54:12 am
Wesley is different than last year, they will roll better, I think Wesley very well could lose one of those games but not likely, Cabrini on the otherhand will need lots of help from their young guys, if Moss or Rafferty go down they have no depth.  Miller their senior has improved greatly on his fundamentals he can hit free throws more consistently, but noticed that guy Walls is not playing, and AJ Picard is hurt. 
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on January 16, 2014, 09:55:32 am
Catholic a nice win last night, congratulations.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 16, 2014, 02:27:10 pm
Not to confuse things... but ronk you only list six teams... why not eight? Eight is the number that will be ranked regionally by the NCAA.

Just curious.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on January 16, 2014, 04:40:52 pm
 I didn't because we started with 5 and there will be more arguments about positions 7-8; however, here goes: 

 1. Cabrini
 2. Wesley
 3. Mary Washington
 4. Dickinson
 5. Messiah
 6. St. Mary's
 7. Scranton
 8. Stevenson
 9. F&M
10. Juniata

 Dave, hope 2 c u Saturday @ Goucher.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on January 16, 2014, 05:00:58 pm
Ronk, I think you nailed it with the rankings , only thing I would change is maybe Messiah, just a gut feeling they will fade a bit.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 16, 2014, 06:00:08 pm
Well considering I have seen in person at least half of those schools... I would have made a few changes... based on opinion, not regional ranking criteria:

1 - Cabrini
2 - St. Mary's
3 - Wesley
4 - Mary Washington
5 - Messiah
6 - Dickinson
7 - Stevenson
8 - Juniata

I wouldn't have F&M any where close to to this list nor any other Centennial school. Scranton could certainly be part of the conversation, but they aren't here right now. There are also other schools in the MAC Commonwealth that might come up into the conversation and in the MAC Freedom as well.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Reserved Seat on January 16, 2014, 09:51:57 pm
Quote
I wouldn't have F&M any where close to to this list nor any other Centennial school. Scranton could certainly be part of the conversation, but they aren't here right now. There are also other schools in the MAC Commonwealth that might come up into the conversation and in the MAC Freedom as well.

Dickinson is a Centennial school.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 16, 2014, 11:09:10 pm
Any other school... I figured that since I listed Dickinson that would be understood and my point was to ronk's list where he had F&M (down to ten players on the roster) listed... that I don't have them or any other school that close. Clearly Dickinson is in there.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Clutch on January 17, 2014, 09:04:52 am
Ok, lets take out F/M works for me.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 17, 2014, 10:40:46 am
Ronk, I think you nailed it with the rankings , only thing I would change is maybe Messiah, just a gut feeling they will fade a bit.

Dave: On Hoopesville last night you mentioned you were at the Messiah @ Stevenson game. Clutch thinks they will fade away. Just curious as to how you see this group finishing their last 11 games? I know you don't have a crystal ball.

1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Mary Wash
4. Messiah
5. Dickinson
6. St. Mary's
7. Stevenson
8. Juniata

Stevensons inability to win on the road could hurt them in a tough conference with games at Lycoming, Widener, Alvernia, Messiah.

One of the CAC teams could drop out of the top 8 (may not happen at all) just because the difficulty in the conference.

Of the teams most of us have in the mentioned regional rankings I would say I feel most confident Cabrini and Dickinson win their conference tournaments. Also feel pretty strongly that one of the three CAC teams (St. Mary's, Wesley, Mary Wash) win the CAC tournament. Wonder how many M.A Region teams can get in..... Can't believe were roughly 3 weeks away from first RR!!!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 17, 2014, 12:02:16 pm
CCHoopster - I was at the game and tweeting accordingly :) - it was the second best game I saw this season (in person).

Messiah isn't fading away... they are a really good basketball and incredibly well coached. As one coach recently pointed out to me (and I noticed), they will be running a play on offense and halfway through that play will change the play call for an opportunity. I didn't see them come out of timeouts with a wasted possession or defensive opportunity, they move the ball so well it's amazing, they are stout defensively, and they are incredibly well disciplined (neither team had anyone in foul trouble halfway through the first overtime). Messiah and Stevenson will battle it out for the conference regular season and tournament championship and if they both play well and continue winning... they will both be in the NCAA tournament with maybe one of them hosting (both SOS numbers should be very good).

I have had the same feeling about Stevenson on the road you did until I looked at it better.

- Last season they weren't that good finishing the season 10-5 at home and 6-5 on the road. That included a 4-5 record at home and a 5-4 record on the road in the conference (5-5 counting the first round of the conference tournament).
- This season the Mustangs are so far 6-1 at home and 5-2 on the road (including neutral games) including 4-0 in the conference at home and 2-1 on the road... a very remarkable improvement. In fact, going back to January 28 last season the Mustangs have only lost four games on the road of the eleven they have played.

I think Stevenson is starting to prove they can win on the road. The Albright loss was certainly eyebrow raising, but that is a very well coached team that seems to be figuring things out right now. The other loss was to Oglethorpe who has lost just one game this season, it was a one-point loss, and the Stormy Petrels are now ranked 24th.

As for the CAC... one of them may move out of the official rankings, but they will be close. Thus if a lot of teams are taken from the Mid-Atlantic as at-large bids a fourth CAC team could be sitting at the table near the end of the process.

I think the Mid-Atlantic will see more teams in the NCAA tournament this season than in recent memory. The Atlantic and East Regions just don't have a lot of teams if any that will get at-large bids eliminating some of the eight contenders at the table each round. Obviously it also depends on how many upsets take place around the country in that last week.

Here is what I can say with confidence assuming the trends with teams continues:

- CSAC and Centennial will only get one team in the NCAA tournament as long as Cabrini and Dickinson win their tournaments. Those conferences get two teams in if Cabrini and Dickinson lose - at least Cabrini would be a national bubble bursting loss.
- MAC Freedom will get just one team in... period.
- Landmark potentially could get two teams in, but only if the top of the conference buttons things up and doesn't take any bad losses here on out. Those two teams would be Juniata and Scranton.
- MAC Commonwealth will probably get two teams in baring an upset (Messiah and Stevenson), but if there is an upset of one of those teams before the championship game... a third team from the conference getting in will depend on how many bubble-bursting upsets take place around the country.
- CAC could get three teams in the tournament (St. Mary's, Wesley, Mary Washington) and potentially will have a fourth (Christopher Newport) sitting at the table to be considered late in the process. (Ironically, CNU's move to the Mid-Atlantic probably was seen as being beneficial for at-large chances for them because they were leaving a crowded South Region. However, their first year in the Mid-Atlantic has revealed a very crowded region as well.)

Of course... ALL of this could change as we still have six weeks of basketball to play in the regular season.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 17, 2014, 12:28:16 pm
Great reply, Dave thanks! CNU certainly is realizing the depth of the Mid Atlantic. That's not to say they can't get hot and reel off a bunch of wins. Teams will beat each other at the top of the CAC. The same can be said about the MACC. I agree they are the two conferences who will be represented by multiple teams.

Six weeks can help and hurt a lot of teams post-season chances. The teams who should be there will win between now and then. The teams who have just got off to hot starts will show if they can't sustain success and can stay healthy!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Swish3 on January 17, 2014, 12:35:30 pm
CNU's struggling right now, but I look for them to regain their early season form and make a run at the regular season championship.

GO CAPS!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 17, 2014, 12:39:08 pm
Great reply, Dave thanks! CNU certainly is realizing the depth of the Mid Atlantic. That's not to say they can't get hot and reel off a bunch of wins. Teams will beat each other at the top of the CAC. The same can be said about the MACC. I agree they are the two conferences who will be represented by multiple teams.

Six weeks can help and hurt a lot of teams post-season chances. The teams who should be there will win between now and then. The teams who have just got off to hot starts will show if they can't sustain success and can stay healthy!

Let's be honest... the Mid-Atlantic has not been this deep in a very long time. I am indicating that CNU's move happened to be at the worst timing wise... since if they were in last year or the year before, etc... it wouldn't have been as deep.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Charles on January 17, 2014, 01:02:56 pm
CCHoopster - I was at the game and tweeting accordingly :) - it was the second best game I saw this season (in person).

Messiah isn't fading away... they are a really good basketball and incredibly well coached. As one coach recently pointed out to me (and I noticed), they will be running a play on offense and halfway through that play will change the play call for an opportunity. I didn't see them come out of timeouts with a wasted possession or defensive opportunity, they move the ball so well it's amazing, they are stout defensively, and they are incredibly well disciplined (neither team had anyone in foul trouble halfway through the first overtime). Messiah and Stevenson will battle it out for the conference regular season and tournament championship and if they both play well and continue winning... they will both be in the NCAA tournament with maybe one of them hosting (both SOS numbers should be very good).

I have had the same feeling about Stevenson on the road you did until I looked at it better.

- Last season they weren't that good finishing the season 10-5 at home and 6-5 on the road. That included a 4-5 record at home and a 5-4 record on the road in the conference (5-5 counting the first round of the conference tournament).
- This season the Mustangs are so far 6-1 at home and 5-2 on the road (including neutral games) including 4-0 in the conference at home and 2-1 on the road... a very remarkable improvement. In fact, going back to January 28 last season the Mustangs have only lost four games on the road of the eleven they have played.

I think Stevenson is starting to prove they can win on the road. The Albright loss was certainly eyebrow raising, but that is a very well coached team that seems to be figuring things out right now. The other loss was to Oglethorpe who has lost just one game this season, it was a one-point loss, and the Stormy Petrels are now ranked 24th.

As for the CAC... one of them may move out of the official rankings, but they will be close. Thus if a lot of teams are taken from the Mid-Atlantic as at-large bids a fourth CAC team could be sitting at the table near the end of the process.

I think the Mid-Atlantic will see more teams in the NCAA tournament this season than in recent memory. The Atlantic and East Regions just don't have a lot of teams if any that will get at-large bids eliminating some of the eight contenders at the table each round. Obviously it also depends on how many upsets take place around the country in that last week.

Here is what I can say with confidence assuming the trends with teams continues:

- CSAC and Centennial will only get one team in the NCAA tournament as long as Cabrini and Dickinson win their tournaments. Those conferences get two teams in if Cabrini and Dickinson lose - at least Cabrini would be a national bubble bursting loss.
- MAC Freedom will get just one team in... period.
- Landmark potentially could get two teams in, but only if the top of the conference buttons things up and doesn't take any bad losses here on out. Those two teams would be Juniata and Scranton.- MAC Commonwealth will probably get two teams in baring an upset (Messiah and Stevenson), but if there is an upset of one of those teams before the championship game... a third team from the conference getting in will depend on how many bubble-bursting upsets take place around the country.
- CAC could get three teams in the tournament (St. Mary's, Wesley, Mary Washington) and potentially will have a fourth (Christopher Newport) sitting at the table to be considered late in the process. (Ironically, CNU's move to the Mid-Atlantic probably was seen as being beneficial for at-large chances for them because they were leaving a crowded South Region. However, their first year in the Mid-Atlantic has revealed a very crowded region as well.)

Of course... ALL of this could change as we still have six weeks of basketball to play in the regular season.

Didn't Catholic just thump Juniata on their home court and Scranton already has 2 in conference home losses?
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 17, 2014, 01:07:23 pm
Yes... but doesn't change my opinion. Catholic could be a sleeper... but they have also struggled and are not in a position to get into the NCAA tournament without winning the conference.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Charles on January 17, 2014, 01:57:46 pm
Yes... but doesn't change my opinion. Catholic could be a sleeper... but they have also struggled and are not in a position to get into the NCAA tournament without winning the conference.

I would think at this point only the conference winner may earn a spot. SOS for Scranton and Juniata is low compared to the tough schedule Catholic has played. Still alot of time left in conference play however. Looking for Goucher to host the conference tournament
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 17, 2014, 02:13:24 pm
Charles - the SOS numbers are incomplete and remember CUA's tough schedule actually helps Juniata, Scranton and the rest of the conference as well (OOWP). Certainly, I wouldn't be surprised if only one team from this conference gets into the tournament, but that will be determined if Juniata, Scranton and even Catholic take too many losses - especially bad ones - between now and the conference tournament.

And Goucher hosting the tournament? That would surprise even me :).
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 17, 2014, 02:30:45 pm
Great reply, Dave thanks! CNU certainly is realizing the depth of the Mid Atlantic. That's not to say they can't get hot and reel off a bunch of wins. Teams will beat each other at the top of the CAC. The same can be said about the MACC. I agree they are the two conferences who will be represented by multiple teams.

Six weeks can help and hurt a lot of teams post-season chances. The teams who should be there will win between now and then. The teams who have just got off to hot starts will show if they can't sustain success and can stay healthy!

Let's be honest... the Mid-Atlantic has not been this deep in a very long time. I am indicating that CNU's move happened to be at the worst timing wise... since if they were in last year or the year before, etc... it wouldn't have been as deep.

I perfectly understood your position..... Was just piggybacking!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 19, 2014, 03:08:46 pm
I should clarify... the Mid-Atlantic Region will have nine teams officially ranked in regional rankings.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 20, 2014, 09:47:17 am
I should clarify... the Mid-Atlantic Region will have nine teams officially ranked in regional rankings.

Cabrini
Wesley
Mary Wash
Messiah
Dickinson
St. Mary's
Stevenson
McDaniel
CNU

I'm not very good at these just a fun guess.


Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on January 21, 2014, 01:43:54 pm
My revised RRs after last weeek's action:
 1. Cabrini
 2. Wesley
 3. Mary Washington
 4. Dickinson
 5. Messiah
 6. Scranton
 7. Stevenson
 8. St. Mary's
 9. Christopher Newport
10. McDaniel

 At the moment barring conference tourney upsets, MId-Atlantic Pool C candidates, look like probably 2 of CAC and Stevenson/Messiah loser and possibly, McDaniel, Scranton, Juniata 
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 23, 2014, 08:36:59 am
My revised RRs after last weeek's action:
 1. Cabrini
 2. Wesley
 3. Mary Washington
 4. Dickinson
 5. Messiah
 6. Scranton
 7. Stevenson
 8. St. Mary's
 9. Christopher Newport
10. McDaniel

 At the moment barring conference tourney upsets, MId-Atlantic Pool C candidates, look like probably 2 of CAC and Stevenson/Messiah loser and possibly, McDaniel, Scranton, Juniata

Well after last night I think We can move Dickinson and certainly Stevenson down (Stevenson out of top 9 for me). Messiah plays tonight and Saturday has a good slate of games. Should be interesting to see what these teams do over the weekend. After last night:

Cabrini
Wesley
Mary Wash
Messiah
St. Mary's
Dickinson
McDaniel
Scranton
CNU
---------
Stevenson-FnM-Junaita-Catholic Knocking on the door. In no order here.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: NEPAFAN on January 23, 2014, 10:25:00 am
Scranton plays Catholic this Saturday. Should be a good game and help flush out where these two teams sit.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Charles on January 23, 2014, 10:26:10 am
Scranton plays Catholic this Saturday. Should be a good game and help flush out where these two teams sit.
thinking Catholic and Scranton will play 3 times this year.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 23, 2014, 01:50:39 pm
Can't disagree with the thought on Stevenson, but I have a feeling their SOS is going to keep them up in the Top 9... they have played very good teams who have played very good schedules. Their game against Middlebury alone will bring in the SOS of the NESCAC. And the MAC Commonwealth always has good SOS numbers as well.

Saw Juniata last night... I think they have the talent and the ability to be a dangerous team in the playoffs, but as senior laden as they are (starting five is all seniors), I just can't figure out why they don't dominate. They allowed a streaky Goucher team back in the game in the first half and then held on to win in the end. Not what I was hoping to see from Juniata.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: mailsy on January 23, 2014, 05:15:52 pm
Just thought this was interesting. Another poster, KnightSlappy, does his own regional rankings based on RPI. Here is the current MidAtlantic teams through Wednesday.

RG   ##   WP      wSOS    wRPI    NAT   RRO   CONFER   TEAM
MA   01   0.923   0.590   0.673   003   0-0   CAC      Wesley
MA   02   0.929   0.524   0.625   010   0-0   MACC     Messiah
MA   03   0.813   0.553   0.618   015   0-0   CC       Dickinson
MA   04   0.692   0.588   0.614   019   0-0   CAC      St. Marys (Md.)
MA   05   0.867   0.529   0.613   021   0-0   CAC      Mary Washington
MA   06   1.000   0.454   0.590   045   0-0   CSAC     Cabrini
MA   07   0.667   0.558   0.585   049   0-0   MACC     Alvernia
MA   08   0.733   0.534   0.584   053   0-0   LAND     Juniata
MA   09   0.714   0.540   0.583   055   0-0   CAC      Christopher Newport
MA   10   0.750   0.524   0.581   058   0-0   MACC     Stevenson
MA   11   0.733   0.528   0.579   060   0-0   MACC     Hood
MA   12   0.813   0.492   0.572   071   0-0   LAND     Scranton
MA   13   0.800   0.494   0.570   074   0-0   CC       McDaniel
MA   14   0.667   0.536   0.569   075   0-0   CSAC     Neumann
MA   15   0.733   0.513   0.568   076   0-0   LAND     Catholic
MA   16   0.357   0.628   0.561   085   0-0   MACC     Arcadia
MA   17   0.500   0.575   0.556   097   0-0   LAND     Drew
MA   18   0.786   0.479   0.555   098   0-0   CSAC     Gwynedd-Mercy
MA   19   0.563   0.542   0.547   107   0-0   MACC     Albright
MA   20   0.688   0.489   0.539   122   0-0   CC       Franklin and Marshall
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on January 23, 2014, 10:48:30 pm
My revised RRs after this week's action so far:
 1. Cabrini
 2. Wesley
 3. Mary Washington
 4. Messiah
 5. Scranton
 6. St. Mary's
 7. Dickinson
 8. Stevenson
 9. Christopher Newport
10. McDaniel
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 24, 2014, 09:34:23 am
Dave:

How objective or subjective are regional rankings? 50-50, 60-40...... Could a team like Cabrini really be ranked #6 regionally and #3 nationally?

Thanks.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 24, 2014, 10:55:35 am
Regionally rankings are completely objective. As much by the numbers as the numbers will allow.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 24, 2014, 11:00:57 am
CCHoopster, remember there are more items involved than just SOS... Cabrini's record for example would move them higher and ahead of teams with maybe better SOS numbers, but one or more losses. However, don't be surprised because of Cabrini's SOS (an estimated .454 which will improve) they end up not #1.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 24, 2014, 11:22:35 pm
Thanks Pat and Dave. Lot of hoops to be played but the RR's being a few shorts weeks away bring exciting anticipation!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on January 25, 2014, 11:08:21 pm
My revised RRs after this today's action(Messiah loss, Stevenson near-upset:
 1. Cabrini
 2. Wesley
 3. Mary Washington
 4. Scranton
 5. St. Mary's
 6. Dickinson
 7. Messiah
 8. Christopher Newport
 9. McDaniel
10. Stevenson

Monday: CNU-St.Mary's
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 26, 2014, 09:18:21 am
1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Mary Washington
4. St. Mary's
5. Dickinson
6. Messiah- (only dropping them 2 spots losing on a buzzer beater on the road to a 13-4 team and other loss to Stevenson- I can see swapping them and Scranton too)
7. Scranton
8. CNU
9. McDaniel
10. Stevenson
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 29, 2014, 09:08:51 am
1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Mary Washington
4. St. Mary's
5. Dickinson
6. Messiah- (only dropping them 2 spots losing on a buzzer beater on the road to a 13-4 team and other loss to Stevenson- I can see swapping them and Scranton too)
7. Scranton
8. CNU
9. McDaniel
10. Stevenson

My updated after 12/28 games

1- Cabrini
2- Wesley
3- Mary Washington
4- St. Mary's
5- Messiah
6- Scranton
7- Dickinson
8- McDaniel
9- Christopher Newport----------------------
Catholic, Stevenson, Hood

Don't sleep on Hood College. If they can beat Stevenson tonight I see them creeping into the 8-9 regional rankings spot if they keep it up till first vote.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 29, 2014, 12:08:19 pm
When are the first Regional Rankings? Next week?
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 29, 2014, 12:12:14 pm
February 12, 19 and 26.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on January 31, 2014, 09:42:35 am
Games through 1-30-14 (St. Mary's loss)

1- Cabrini
2- Wesley
3- Mary Wash
4- Messiah
5- Scranton
6- Dickinson
7- St. Mary's
8- Hood
9- McDaniel
-------------------
Catholic, Stevenson, CNU
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 01, 2014, 10:49:59 pm
Games through 2/1/14

1- Cabrini
2- Wesley
3- Mary Wash
4- Messiah
5- Scranton
6- Dickinson
7- St Mary's
8- Hood
9- CNU

Alvernia- McDaniel- Stevenson

Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 01, 2014, 11:37:02 pm
Considering SOS numbers... I don't see SMC that far down... especially below Scranton and Dickinson. They may even be above Messiah.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 02, 2014, 10:04:26 am
Considering SOS numbers... I don't see SMC that far down... especially below Scranton and Dickinson. They may even be above Messiah.

I really only do the rankings (if you can even call them that lol) for my own fun and actually I am not sure what all goes into the official regional rankings to include any amount of a personal voters subjectivity. When thinking of SOS I can see why you say SMC would be further up. With that said, I could see how Cabrini would not be in the top 2 or 3 based on their low SOS numbers. Assuming the likes of Cabrini, Wesley, Mary Wash, Messiah keep winning, I see them as the top 4. With win% being a part of the equation (im assuming it is) Messiah could hang around bc of their SOS numbers and win%.

Really enjoyed your show on Thursday. The internet and explosion of social media coupled with people like D3Hoops.com gives has created a great platform and promotion for D3 hoops.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2014, 11:47:25 am
Cabrini's SOS will be helped this season by playing in the Hoopsville Classic and hopefully playing Wesley (weather permitting... again). They will be dragged down by their conference, but those three games alone will bring in a ton of SOS boost.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 05, 2014, 09:08:08 am
Safe travels to anyone venturing out tonight to support their teams and to any teams traveling. Have to think there will be some cancelations although here in central, Pa (Lancaster) it is not near as bad as we thought.

Could be a good night to watch some online games!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: NEPAFAN on February 05, 2014, 10:02:11 am
Did I miss any?


Immaculata   No. 2 Cabrini        6:30 PM   • *   LS V
No. 12 Mary Washington   St. Mary's (Md.)        8:00 PM   • *   LS V
No. 17 Messiah   Lycoming        8:00 PM   • *   
Gettysburg   Dickinson        6:00 PM   • *   V
Juniata   Catholic        7:00 PM   • *   LS V
Scranton   Merchant Marine        7:00 PM   • *   LS V
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 05, 2014, 10:16:55 am
Lyco games normally are streamed (not very well) and are not posted a such on here. If you go to their site and schedule you will be able to view.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 05, 2014, 10:19:44 am
Did I miss any?


Immaculata   No. 2 Cabrini        6:30 PM   • *   LS V
No. 12 Mary Washington   St. Mary's (Md.)        8:00 PM   • *   LS V
No. 17 Messiah   Lycoming        8:00 PM   • *   
Gettysburg   Dickinson        6:00 PM   • *   V
Juniata   Catholic        7:00 PM   • *   LS V
Scranton   Merchant Marine        7:00 PM   • *   LS V

Del Val is at DeSalles. DeSalles can get a tie for first if they win.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on February 05, 2014, 03:01:18 pm
Did I miss any?


Immaculata   No. 2 Cabrini        6:30 PM   • *   LS V
No. 12 Mary Washington   St. Mary's (Md.)        8:00 PM   • *   LS V
No. 17 Messiah   Lycoming        8:00 PM   • *   
Gettysburg   Dickinson        6:00 PM   • *   V
Juniata   Catholic        7:00 PM   • *   LS V
Scranton   Merchant Marine        7:00 PM   • *   LS V

Del Val is at DeSalles. DeSalles can get a tie for first if they win.

 According to Kate, it's been postponed til tomorrow.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: gordonmann on February 05, 2014, 03:41:28 pm
Cabrini-Immaculata is also postponed until tomorrow.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on February 06, 2014, 12:28:40 am
My revised RRs after tonite's action

 1. Cabrini
 2. Wesley
 3. Mary Washington
 4. Scranton
 5. Dickinson
 6. McDaniel
 7. Messiah
 8. St. Mary's
 9. Christopher Newport

Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: gordonmann on February 06, 2014, 12:28:46 pm
Cabrini-Immaculata is postponed again with a make-up date TBD.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: NEPAFAN on February 06, 2014, 12:55:04 pm
My revised RRs after tonite's action

 1. Cabrini
 2. Wesley
 3. Mary Washington
 4. Scranton
 5. Dickinson
 6. McDaniel
 7. Messiah
 8. St. Mary's
 9. Christopher Newport


Any guess on how many MA teams would host in the tourny?
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: gordonmann on February 06, 2014, 01:46:11 pm
Assuming for now that Ronk's list is an accurate reflection of the regional rankings, my guess is that two schools would host the first weekend -- Cabrini and Mary Washington -- and possibly a third at Scranton, depending on what the rest of the tournament bracket looks like.

I don't know for a fact that Wesley can host, but I doubt it given the size of the facility.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 06, 2014, 01:46:34 pm
It sounds like Wesley is not putting in a bid to host.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: NEPAFAN on February 06, 2014, 02:21:36 pm
It sounds like Wesley is not putting in a bid to host.

So I should get out my Wesley pom poms when they play MW.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: gordonmann on February 06, 2014, 02:25:41 pm
To give Scranton a better shot to host, yes.

I know you know this, Ronk, but for others, keep in mind that hosting decisions are not solely based on regional rankings or facility.  There are other factors like geography of the other teams in the field, including those outside the Mid-Atlantic region, and the NCAA's travel budget.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 07, 2014, 11:38:16 am
Messiah and Wesley certainly did not help themselves this week. Wesley was solidified as #1 (SOS better than Cabrini?) or 2 and Messiah with their SOS and win% was ahead of the second tier pack (Dickinson, Scranton, McDaniel) in the RR's. Messiah probably gets dinged pretty good for Lycoming loss and Wesley goes to #3. However, I wouldn't say Messiah is clearly behind Scranton, Dickinson and McDaniel. I believe their SOS #'s will be better than those 3 and their win % will be the same or maybe better depending how tomorrow goes. Should really be interesting. Certainly tightens things up from 4-9 in the RR. No more slip ups for Wesley and Mary Wash and Cabrini can not have a night like Wesley did last night. Landmark, Centennial and CSAC are just not even close to the depth as the CAC then MAC Commonwealth.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on February 08, 2014, 07:25:23 pm
My revised RRs after today's action; RAC 1st release on 12 Feb

 1. Cabrini
 2. Wesley
 3. Scranton
 4. Dickinson
 5. McDaniel
 6. Messiah
 7. Mary Washington
 8. St. Mary's
 9. Christopher Newport
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: mailsy on February 08, 2014, 08:16:08 pm
I'll take a stab regional rankings.

1. Cabrini
2. Wesley
3. Mary Washington
4. Scranton
5. Dickinson
6. Messiah
7. St. Mary's
8. Christopher Newport
9. Gwynedd Mercy (no one has mentioned them yet. They are 14-4 against D3 schools with 2 of their losses to Cabrini)
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 08, 2014, 11:15:35 pm
Cabrini
Wesley- Bad loss but still strong enough numbers
Messiah- 17-3, dropped a bad one on the road to Lycoming College but all 3 losses on the road, one in 2 ot, one by buzzer beater. Good SOS numbers
Scranton- Cream of the crop in a conference that is not currently deep or strong. Merchant Marine loss hurts them and SOS
Dickinson- Could see them being hire but the Centennial like the Landmark is not very deep or strong this year. That hurts their sos
Mary Wash- The loss, especially with it being at home, hurts Mary Washington. I am probably wrong, probably in the top 4.
McDaniel- Surprise team this year, just not sure the Centennial SOS will help them enough.
St. Mary's
Alvernia- Surprised their not getting some more thoughts on peoples RR's. Really good team, could be a post season sleeper. SOS good

CNU, Hood, Gwynedd Mercy
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2014, 12:55:48 pm
CCHoopster... when you talk about SOS, what are you basing the info on. Remember, we don't actually know the hard SOS numbers and won't until Wednesday.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 09, 2014, 02:49:42 pm
Just making guesses and if the rankings come out like I guessed thinking they would be the reasons (the sos #s). Kind of like if you pick the winner of a game then say why think so. I wouldn't take mine too serious.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2014, 02:58:13 pm
The only reason I bring it up is because SOS numbers are usually the biggest surprise for people... considering the math and the opponent's opponent's winning percentage along with the weighted values... some people think an SOS would be higher then they turn out to be... so, I was just checking.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: saratoga on February 09, 2014, 05:58:27 pm
For what it's worth.......

*Cabrini
*Wesley
*Scranton
*Messiah
*Mary Washington
*Dickinson
*McDaniel
*St. Mary's
*Gwynedd Mercy

Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2014, 06:30:22 pm
Just for the record, according to KnightSlappy's approximation for SOS:

1   Salisbury                          0.588 (.500 WP)
2   Christopher Newport      0.552 (.632 WP)
3   St. Marys (Md.)                  0.551 (.684 WP)
4   Alvernia                          0.550 (.714 WP)
5   Albright                          0.544 (.524 WP)
6   Catholic                          0.538 (.700 WP)
   Johns Hopkins                  0.538 (.600 WP)
8   Juniata                          0.533 (.600 WP)
9   Muhlenberg                  0.531 (.650 WP)
10   Wesley                          0.530 (.889 WP)
11   Messiah                          0.522 (.850 WP)
12   Hood                          0.520 (.737 WP)
13   Stevenson                  0.517 (.667 WP)
14   Dickinson                          0.516 (.810 WP)
15   Cabrini                          0.506 (1.000 WP)
   Scranton                          0.506 (.857 WP)
17   Neumann                          0.505 (.737 WP)
18   Mary Washington           0.504 (.850 WP)
19   Gwynedd-Mercy          0.478 (.778 WP)
20   McDaniel                          0.476 (.800 WP)

Notice that teams like Scranton do not have good SOS numbers against their winning percentages. Team's like Salisbury do not have great winning percentages compared to their SOS.

As a result, without all the other criteria considered:

1 - Cabrini
2 - Wesley
3 - Messiah
4 - Scranton
5 - Mary Washington
6 - Dickinson
7 - St. Mary's
8 - Catholic
9 - Alvernia
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: mailsy on February 09, 2014, 06:34:47 pm
Here is poster Knightsslappy's take on the regional rankings in the MidAtlantic:

RG   ##   WP      wSOS    wRPI    NAT   D3      RRO   CONFER   TEAM
MA   01   1.000   0.506   0.630   009   18-0    3-0   CSAC     Cabrini
MA   02   0.889   0.530   0.620   016   16-2    3-0   CAC      Wesley
MA   03   0.850   0.522   0.604   024   17-3    2-0   MACC     Messiah
MA   04   0.857   0.506   0.594   032   18-3    3-1   LAND     Scranton
MA   05   0.850   0.504   0.591   038   17-3    3-1   CAC      Mary Washington
MA   06   0.714   0.550   0.591   039   15-6    0-3   MACC     Alvernia
MA   07   0.810   0.516   0.589   041   17-4    3-1   CC       Dickinson
MA   08   0.684   0.551   0.584   046   13-6    1-4   CAC      St. Marys (Md.)
MA   09   0.700   0.538   0.578   049   14-6    0-4   LAND     Catholic
ma   10   0.737   0.520   0.574   060   14-5    1-2   MACC     Hood
ma   11   0.632   0.552   0.572   061   12-7    2-5   CAC      Christopher Newport
ma   12   0.500   0.588   0.566   067   9-9     3-5   CAC      Salisbury
ma   13   0.737   0.505   0.563   072   14-5    1-2   CSAC     Neumann
ma   14   0.650   0.531   0.561   077   13-7    1-1   CC       Muhlenberg
ma   15   0.800   0.476   0.557   080   16-4    0-1   CC       McDaniel
ma   16   0.667   0.517   0.554   088   14-7    3-2   MACC     Stevenson
ma   17   0.600   0.538   0.553   090   12-8    1-3   CC       Johns Hopkins
ma   18   0.778   0.478   0.553   091   14-4    0-2   CSAC     Gwynedd-Mercy
ma   19   0.600   0.533   0.550   099   12-8    3-3   LAND     Juniata
ma   20   0.524   0.544   0.539   118   11-10   1-4   MACC     Albright
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2014, 06:45:52 pm
Remember... he is going by his RPI there...
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 11, 2014, 11:00:08 am
Do tomorrow's Regional Rankings come out before tomorrow nights games? Pretty sure the obvious answer is yes. Also, do they include games played this week, last night and tonight?

Thanks.

CC
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2014, 11:20:41 am
Do tomorrow's Regional Rankings come out before tomorrow nights games? Pretty sure the obvious answer is yes. Also, do they include games played this week, last night and tonight?

Thanks.

CC

They are through Sunday's games. Generally we see them sometime after 3 p.m. ET but it's not set for a specific time.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 11, 2014, 11:52:19 am
Do tomorrow's Regional Rankings come out before tomorrow nights games? Pretty sure the obvious answer is yes. Also, do they include games played this week, last night and tonight?

Thanks.

CC

They are through Sunday's games. Generally we see them sometime after 3 p.m. ET but it's not set for a specific time.

Thank you kindly.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2014, 02:40:08 pm
To give you a basic timeline:

- Games are through Sunday
- Regional committees discusses and votes on Monday
- National Committee discusses and votes on Tuesday
- Rankings released Wednesday
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 12, 2014, 10:45:40 am
Can't believe the first Regional Rankings are just a few hours away..... Been a strong season for the MA Region with a few recent losses (Wesley, Mary Wash, Messiah) which makes things more interesting. My final guess (don't take mine too serious, purely a guess for fun and made a few slight changes from my last):

Cabrini
Wesley
Messiah
Mary Wash
Dickinson
Scranton
McDaniel
Alvernia
St. Mary's
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: mailsy on February 12, 2014, 10:54:39 am
My last picks for RR before they officially come out today with the "largest snow storm" of the year approaching. Cabrini could have another postponement with Immaculata again tomorrow with 24 hours of snow coming.  :D

1. Cabrini
2. Mary Washington
3. Wesley
4. Scranton
5. Dickinson
6. Messiah
7. St. Mary's
8. Alvernia
9. Gwynedd Mercy
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2014, 04:08:53 pm
Regional rankings out along with SOS data... Mid-Atlantic with a few surprises, but data backs up some of the decisions. Again, just the first week: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2014/02/12/2014-ncaa-regional-rankings-week-1/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2014/02/12/2014-ncaa-regional-rankings-week-1/)
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: NEPAFAN on February 12, 2014, 04:13:56 pm
Scranton getting love!!!  ;D
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2014, 04:14:27 pm
A .547 by the NCAA math is good.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: saratoga on February 12, 2014, 11:41:51 pm
Perhaps the D-3 "voters" need a new slide rule????????
Not even close!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2014, 12:37:02 am
The resume for Scranton hasn't significantly changed in the past few weeks. Randolph-Macon was continuing to win until last night and that's the only win that would resonate with a significant number of voters.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2014, 12:42:27 am
Because Top 25 voters have the same criteria as regional committees?
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: NEPAFAN on February 14, 2014, 10:30:39 am
Perhaps the D-3 "voters" need a new slide rule????????
Not even close!

Toga,

Don't waste your time. The Royals aren't going to get any love from Dave.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2014, 10:46:34 am
You could be ranked very highly with just 24 ballots, but it appears that only a few people think Scranton is worthy of votes at the moment. It's not just Dave.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: NEPAFAN on February 14, 2014, 11:11:42 am
You could be ranked very highly with just 24 ballots, but it appears that only a few people think Scranton is worthy of votes at the moment. It's not just Dave.

He is the puppet master!  ;D
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2014, 11:25:20 am
You could be ranked very highly with just 24 ballots, but it appears that only a few people think Scranton is worthy of votes at the moment. It's not just Dave.

He is the puppet master!  ;D

News to me! (goes back to pulling strings)
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2014, 11:42:33 am
Pat wants me to do what?! :)
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: saratoga on February 15, 2014, 07:10:40 pm
Dave:
Whether or not the Top 25 voters work off the same criteria as the NCAA committee is not the issue.
One would think that at some point a degree of common sense would prevail over the seemingly never ending supply of geographic
provincialism.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2014, 11:13:19 pm
Dave:
Whether or not the Top 25 voters work off the same criteria as the NCAA committee is not the issue.
One would think that at some point a degree of common sense would prevail over the seemingly never ending supply of geographic
provincialism.

The Top 25 voters simply don't agree with you, that's all. And that means a really large majority of them don't agree, not just a couple here and there. Definitely expect Scranton to pick up more votes this week but I don't know if I saw enough happen this week to get them five times as many votes.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2014, 04:54:03 pm
It was a crazy week in basketball not only on the court, but off it as well. Pat Coleman joins me to talk about two interesting coaching moves and what the last two weeks of the regular season has in store for everyone.

We will also talk to Baptist Bible MBB head coach Mike Show fresh off the Defender's upset win over #2 Cabrini along with the following guests:

- #25 Texas-Tyler WBB coach Kevin Baker
- Castleton State WBB coach Tim Barrett
- #7 Amherst MBB coach Dave Hixon
- Amherst super-fan Mike Wohl (we hope!)
- Rose-Hulman MBB Jim Shaw
- #21 Randolph-Macon MBB coach Nathan Davis

Show starts at 7 PM EST and will run at least 2:30 tonight.

You can tune in here: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2013-14/feb16 (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2013-14/jan12)

You can also follow us on social media
- Twitter (@d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) and #Hoopsville)
- Facebook (www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville))
- Email (hoopsville@d3hoops.com)

Thanks and enjoy the show!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 18, 2014, 11:42:23 pm
Stab at the Regional Rankings (probably way off, just a guess)

Scranton
Cabrini
Wesley
Dickinson
Messiah
McDaniel
St. Mary's
Mary Wash
Alvernia
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 19, 2014, 12:31:10 am
Just because Cabrini lost doesn't necessarily mean they will fall a spot. Also the RRO comes into play and Cabrini has at least three games there that are all wins. They also have a head-to-head win over Scranton. Basically, the only criteria I see Cabrini not winning against Scranton is SOS and that very well may mean Cabrini stays #1.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 19, 2014, 08:30:19 am
Just because Cabrini lost doesn't necessarily mean they will fall a spot. Also the RRO comes into play and Cabrini has at least three games there that are all wins. They also have a head-to-head win over Scranton. Basically, the only criteria I see Cabrini not winning against Scranton is SOS and that very well may mean Cabrini stays #1.

Yes, I thought about that after I posted. Thanks, Dave. I'll find out today how far off I was! Dickinson, Scranton and Cabrini are the only teams I feel confident about winning their conference tourney that are regionally ranked. The Mac Commonwealth looks to be a 3 team race (Messiah, Stevenson, Alvernia) and the CAC has teams from Wesley to Salisbury that wouldn't be a surprise if they were to get hot and win it. Wonder how many Pool C bids the Mid-Atlantic will get?

Dave: You mentioned you wouldn't be surprised if teams with 7-8 losses earned Pool C bids. Does that mean you see teams from the Mid-Atlantic like say a Mary Wash, St Mary's or a Messiah earning Pool C bids? I know there's a lot of hoops to play, excited for playoff time!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2014, 10:13:32 am
Yes... I certainly do think that trio has a chance at getting at-large bids. The key here is because all games count this year, more losses are automatically on the resume for teams when being considered (primary criteria). Also, because of the number of great conference races and other factors, there are a lot of teams with more losses than many would remember in the past. So I do see teams with eight losses getting at-large bids this season and I think that trio certainly has a legitimate chance IF they don't win their conference AQs (SMC would be the one I am assuming won't win the AQ).
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CardsFan on February 20, 2014, 01:27:47 pm
Have to say I'm a little surprised to see Scranton on top. Cabrini beat them head-to-head and Cabrini was gonna pick up a loss with how screwed up their schedule has been. I know this could change in a week, but still surprised. Scranton deserves to be in the NCAA whether they AQ or not. Also surprised not to see St. Marys ranked.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Swish3 on February 20, 2014, 02:07:04 pm
Given how tough the CAC is this year, at least the top three from that conference should be in the regional rankings....St. Mary's is solid, while CNU, Marymount and Salisbury aren't far behind.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on February 24, 2014, 09:01:47 am
How much weight do conference vs non-conference losses have over one other? Take Mary Washington and Messiah for an example.

Mary Wash- 6-1 Non conference- only loss coming to Hampton Sydney and were 14-4 in arguably the toughest Mid-Atlantic conference with no real bad losses in conference. 20-5 overall record.

Messiah- 6-0 non conference- 13-5 in conference in maybe the deepest conference in Mid-Atlantic and some would say the toughest to play 18 games in because of its depth.  19-5 overall. 1 bad loss to Lycoming where it looks like they just did not show up. Lost on a buzzer beater, in 2 OT's, and two 2 possession games, looking back at their schedule.

I guess my question stems from where someone posted about a teams losses hurting them because they were in conference losses. But if your losses are in conference vs playoff teams who are regionally ranked, are they really bad losses? Do they hurt more just because their conference games? I could see if you had 5 losses in a weaker conference (MAC Freedom, Landmark) it hurting but if you lose games on the road in conference to teams in your conference playoffs are they really bad losses? Could Scranton come away with only 1-3 conference losses in the MACC or CAC? (Not knocking Scranton, they are terrific). Im just using these two schools as examples since they seemed to fit with strong non conference records and losses coming from playoff teams in their league (except Messiahs Lyco loss).

I think both these teams should make the NCAA's based on how things work this year and more teams having losses with all games being in region. Both have had losses coming down the final 4 week stretch but that can't discredit their great starts the first 6-8 weeks. Just hoping to some Pool C bids for the Mid-Atlantic!!! Don't care who or what conference, just a strong showing for the region! Obviously they need teams like Scranton, Cabrini, Wesley, Dickinson to win the AQ's.

Great week ahead
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CardsFan on February 24, 2014, 01:35:18 pm
This is where my frustration with D3 comes in. I completely understand that Regional Rankings are the way that teams are eventually positioned for NCAA spots, but I sometimes feel that those numbers leave too much out. Unlike DI, a 1-point loss on the road never seems to be a good thing, even if it comes against a good team. It just shows up as a loss, whether it's to a regionally ranked team or not.
A person could look at Scranton losing to USMMA and Juniata and say those are "bad losses." However, Juniata is the best defensive team in the conference and USMMA presents serious match-up problems for Scranton. I don't really see those as bad losses since they came by a total of 4 points, even though in the long run Scranton is clearly better than both of them.

It would be impossible to have a more nuanced way of looking at NCAA selection since there isn't a great way to compare teams from across the country because teams don't play as much nationally as they do in DI, for obvious reasons. I just wonder if sometimes too much emphasis is placed on games against regionally ranked teams. There are a lot of teams out there that are very good, but not regionally ranked and so losing to them looks bad.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2014, 04:41:13 pm
You need to understand, the criteria reads "results" and such... so they can look at the point spread and such and the regional committees are tasked with understanding their regions to understand the results. So, believe it or not... a lot of what you are describing is taking into account. However, SOS and other criteria are also important and may outweigh what you think is important.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CardsFan on February 24, 2014, 05:24:08 pm
You need to understand, the criteria reads "results" and such... so they can look at the point spread and such and the regional committees are tasked with understanding their regions to understand the results. So, believe it or not... a lot of what you are describing is taking into account. However, SOS and other criteria are also important and may outweigh what you think is important.

I see. I guess I'm wondering whether the emphasis is more on just playing a tough schedule or actually beating the tough teams. I know I'm stepping out of region here, but take a team like Emory. They have a terrific SOS, but only 1 win over a ranked opponent. Do they get bumped up in the at-large pecking order just because they've played a tough schedule over a team with a SOS maybe in the .550 range with 2-3 wins over ranked opponents? I know they're challenged on a pretty consistent basis in the UAA, just wondering....
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2014, 03:50:24 pm
Every team, every case, every situation is evaluated individually, so there is no hard and fast rule as to what is more important than other items in a general sense.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: mailsy on February 26, 2014, 04:10:16 pm
Current Regional Rankings. Cavaliers move back to number 1.

Mid-Atlantic - NCAA data sheet
1   Cabrini   23-1   23-1
2   Scranton   22-3   22-3
3   Wesley   20-2   22-2
4   Dickinson   20-5   20-5
5   Stevenson   18-7   18-7
6   Messiah   19-5   19-5
7   Alvernia   18-7   18-7
8   Mary Washington   18-5   20-5
9   St. Mary’s (Md.)   15-7   18-7
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2014, 04:12:40 pm
The entire list: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2014/02/26/2014-ncaa-regional-rankings-week-3/
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CNU85 on February 26, 2014, 04:21:32 pm
Every team, every case, every situation is evaluated individually, so there is no hard and fast rule as to what is more important than other items in a general sense.

That's where the "and such" comes in to play.   ;D
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on March 01, 2014, 11:36:58 pm
 Guessing that the regional hosts for the Mid-Atlantic and Atlantic area will be Cabrini, Scranton, SUNY-Purchase, and either Richard Stockton or Alvernia. Wesley would have been worthy except for their small gym, so I'll stick them in this last regional as the pseudo host highest seed.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 01, 2014, 11:42:53 pm
Wesley didn't even put in to host... so there's that :).

Not sure Richard Stockton automatically gets to host... I think if the right teams are there, maybe. Cabrini and Scranton are locks, Purchase maybe depending on the teams around them. The problem is their resume along with Stockton's doesn't scream hosting.

That all being said, I am not sure the East has more than one host... and the Northeast isn't as strong this year, so for geographic reasons, they may send it to the Atlantic and Mid-Atlantic areas because they have candidates who are not weak and they can have some creative pod opportunities.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on March 02, 2014, 09:14:30 am
Dave and others:

Who do we see representing the Mid-Atlantic Region this year/

Pool A AQ:

Scranton- Host
Cabrini- Host
Mary Wash- Host?
Alvernia- Host?
Johns Hopkins
DeSalles
--------------------
Pool C:

Wesley
Dickinson
Stevenson
-------------------

Messiah, St. Marys and the likes will come up short. Thought the Dickinson loss took a Pool C bid from the MA region. Any other pool C candidates in the MA? I know Dave had mentioned some teams with 7-8 losses possibly getting in. Any conference deserving of 3 teams in the MA (Commonwealth or CAC?)?

Strong season for the Mid Atlantic. Some really good teams and coaches will be representing us in the NCAA's and now need to make some noise in the dance for the region!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: mailsy on March 02, 2014, 10:54:45 am
I believe that Cabrini and Scranton are pretty much locks to host. I doubt that any other team will host in the region. I think Stevenson might come up short too, depending on what happens today, in getting in. Messiah and St. Mary's definitely played themselves out. You are correct about Dickinson, they shouldn't have lost, they will put somebody on the outs.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on March 02, 2014, 11:02:43 am
I believe that Cabrini and Scranton are pretty much locks to host. I doubt that any other team will host in the region. I think Stevenson might come up short too, depending on what happens today, in getting in. Messiah and St. Mary's definitely played themselves out. You are correct about Dickinson, they shouldn't have lost, they will put somebody on the outs.

I was hoping either the CAC or Commonwealth could sneak 3 teams in!!!! Wishful thinking now I guess. My gut tells me (just based off what I have been reading on line via twitter and multi region board) without really understanding the numbers that Dickinson is the second MA Pool C and Stevenson sneaks in late, although will be on the table awhile. Would have been nice for Messiah/St. Mary's to force the committees hand to get in late too. Would love to see a National Championship from the region and some F4, Elite 8 participants!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 02, 2014, 11:16:48 am
Pool C's will be Wesley and then either Dickinson or Stevenson are a lock (there is a resonable argument to move Stevenson ahead of Dickinson in the final rankings). The other will have a chance, but not a lot of upsets have to happen today (VWC, UT-Dallas and Springfield all need to win).

Outside of that, I don't see any other bids. Messiah, CNU and SMC are not going to move ahead of Stevenson or Dickinson to get a chance at the table... meaning one is left at the table and the other two are left behind them.

As for hosting... I think Scranton and Cabrini will certainly host... the other chances will depend on how the bracket comes together.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on November 18, 2014, 09:14:23 am
When is the first time top 25 rankings are released? Why is there such a gap between pre-season rankings and the first official release? If the committee can come up with pre season rankings why can't they come up with weekly or bi weekly in season rankings earlier? I am assuming its because they need more of a sample size to do justice and avoid making it an early season crap shoot. If that is the case, why even do pre season rankings since that would be the biggest chance of a crap shoot since there is no data or sample size of any sort. Not complaining just wondering.... With top 25 teams losing, would be excited to see how it would change through out the whole season/
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: sunny on November 18, 2014, 09:31:47 am
When is the first time top 25 rankings are released? Why is there such a gap between pre-season rankings and the first official release? If the committee can come up with pre season rankings why can't they come up with weekly or bi weekly in season rankings earlier? I am assuming its because they need more of a sample size to do justice and avoid making it an early season crap shoot. If that is the case, why even do pre season rankings since that would be the biggest chance of a crap shoot since there is no data or sample size of any sort. Not complaining just wondering.... With top 25 teams losing, would be excited to see how it would change through out the whole season/

Considering there were a sizable number of teams who did not open their seasons this weekend, I think it makes sense to wait. A preseason poll is based on last year's performance and projection. Once you actually have games being played, it's nice to wait until everyone has played.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on November 18, 2014, 10:00:45 am
When is the first time top 25 rankings are released? Why is there such a gap between pre-season rankings and the first official release? If the committee can come up with pre season rankings why can't they come up with weekly or bi weekly in season rankings earlier? I am assuming its because they need more of a sample size to do justice and avoid making it an early season crap shoot. If that is the case, why even do pre season rankings since that would be the biggest chance of a crap shoot since there is no data or sample size of any sort. Not complaining just wondering.... With top 25 teams losing, would be excited to see how it would change through out the whole season/

Considering there were a sizable number of teams who did not open their seasons this weekend, I think it makes sense to wait. A preseason poll is based on last year's performance and projection. Once you actually have games being played, it's nice to wait until everyone has played.

I re-watched Hoopsville and heard about Thanksgiving time frame for first release. I thought it was a few weeks later than that. Thanksgiving makes perfect sense. I was off.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on November 18, 2014, 10:01:54 am
When is the first time top 25 rankings are released? Why is there such a gap between pre-season rankings and the first official release? If the committee can come up with pre season rankings why can't they come up with weekly or bi weekly in season rankings earlier? I am assuming its because they need more of a sample size to do justice and avoid making it an early season crap shoot. If that is the case, why even do pre season rankings since that would be the biggest chance of a crap shoot since there is no data or sample size of any sort. Not complaining just wondering.... With top 25 teams losing, would be excited to see how it would change through out the whole season/

I re read and learned top 25 comes out again at Thanksgiving. Excited for the season and the top 25 see saw!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 18, 2014, 02:30:41 pm
There is always a delay to the first poll to the second week of the season. There are too many questions and results that need to be sorted out to bring a poll out in the very first Monday after the season has started. I rather have more info in front of me then basing my voting on one to three games. Thus, the poll has never been released on the very first Monday/Tuesday.

And pre-season polls are part of the business... so you are going to get those all of the time.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 18, 2014, 05:43:25 pm
There is always a delay to the first poll to the second week of the season. There are too many questions and results that need to be sorted out to bring a poll out in the very first Monday after the season has started. I rather have more info in front of me then basing my voting on one to three games. Thus, the poll has never been released on the very first Monday/Tuesday.

And pre-season polls are part of the business... so you are going to get those all of the time.

"Never" is a strong word -- we used to do a first poll right away but it has been probably 8-10 years since we last did so because those first polls were not very well informed. We like to let teams play a few more games now.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CCHoopster on November 22, 2014, 11:12:24 pm
Messiah's win vs Eastern Mennonite is a big win for the region. Respect to Messiah who is 2-0 vs the ODAC the past two years (Guilford and Eastern Mennonite).Need this region to perform in the tournament.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: NEPAFAN on November 26, 2014, 10:16:46 am
Scranton with a big win against Cabrini.

Walton-Moss should be playing in the Big East lol.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2015, 02:27:47 pm
Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/11/first-regional-rankings-released-today/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/11/first-regional-rankings-released-today/)
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2015, 11:40:27 pm
FYI - Regionally rankings will come out on Thursday next week due to the planned stat computer outage (upgrade) at the NCAA headquarters this weekend. Thus all committee calls pushed back a day and as a result rankings will be posted Thursday this week. Game info still through Sunday's games.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on February 16, 2015, 09:40:22 pm
 I'll move my regional ranking prediction to this board:

 1. Catholic  20-2   2-1(vrro)
 2. Johns Hopkins 20-3  2-2
 3. Dickinson  19-4  3-1
 4. F&M  19-4  2-2
 5. Scranton  18-5   0-2
 6. St. Mary's 17-4  0-0
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2015, 09:47:21 pm
Considering how low CUA's SOS is... I don't know if that overcomes a Hopkins loss... but who knows. SMC is also dealing with a below .500 SOS, maybe Lycoming who has a decent SOS replaces them?

CUA: .476(!)
Hopkins: .531
Dickinson: .532
F&M: .498
Scranton: .509
St. Mary's: .482
Lycoming: .550

That spread of .06 between CUA and Hopkins I just don't think will trump basically identical records.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CardsFan on February 17, 2015, 12:08:31 am
Considering how low CUA's SOS is... I don't know if that overcomes a Hopkins loss... but who knows. SMC is also dealing with a below .500 SOS, maybe Lycoming who has a decent SOS replaces them?

CUA: .476(!)
Hopkins: .531
Dickinson: .532
F&M: .498
Scranton: .509
St. Mary's: .482
Lycoming: .550

That spread of .06 between CUA and Hopkins I just don't think will trump basically identical records.

Ah yes, the eternal question of whether to schedule tough and get punished for not winning, or schedule soft and get punished for not playing good teams. Too bad Catholic didn't have last years non-conference schedule (Eastern Conn., at R-MC, Dickinson) this year. Last week, I was surprised Catholic was ahead of Dickinson and Dickinson may well move ahead of the Cards this week (I know they lost their midweek game, but a win over Hopkins brings some goodwill towards them).

It would be tough for Catholic to drop this week when they did nothing to hurt their case, but the gap in SOS is glaring.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 17, 2015, 12:16:05 am
Yes... Cards did nothing to hurt themselves, but outside of the Hoopsville Classic, they didn't get any good out of conference games. And admittedly, we paired them up with teams in the off-season looked great for Catholic. However, Purchase was desimated by injuries in the pre-season including a player who probably would have been in the conversation for national player of the year and Gwynedd Mercy has had a disappointing season since.

But, Frostburg, Washington & Lee, and York are bad choices with a history (recent and long) that doesn't say that will help your SOS cause. And playing Davidson might be a nice feather in the cap (and money in the bank), but it is a waste of a game otherwise.

CUA double-dipped into the CAC which has a poor SOS thanks to the bottom of that conference (Frostburg, Southern Virginia, PSU-Harrisburg, etc.) and then grabbed a W&L team that never has a great record.

I know scheduling is hard... but that is three games that kill the SOS especially when you have a conference that is already weak on the bottom. Then you play St. Vincent who is having an average season coming out of a bad conference.

Coach Howes has stated on Hoopsville he doesn't even look at the numbers or really focus on how it all works out. I hate to say it... maybe he or someone on his staff should. We have seen teams left at home with great records but sub-par SOS numbers (Staten Island last year among others)... and I have a feeling anyone with a below .500 SOS looking for an at-large bid is going to be left at home.

As for the rest of the rankings... Dickinson might get a boost thanks to that win over Hopkins since it will help the vRRO add a win... but the top of the rankings might just remain the same.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CardsFan on February 17, 2015, 12:42:50 am
D-mac I'm with you 100% on Catholic's schedule. For years I wished Catholic would stop playing Haverford (no disrespect meant, but it didn't do anything for SOS), and it seems that while that wish was granted, they were replaced with Frostburg, another team that doesn't help. As for York, that was at the holiday tournament and CUA always seems to schedule one "bad" team, but you're right that doesn't help.

With DeSales, it doesn't ever seem to matter how good or bad CUA is, they cannot EVER win in DeSales gym. It doesn't look good to the outside world, but that was an entirely expected loss from my point of view (one could wonder why I keep driving to watch them go there to lose). The St. Vincent loss only gets more disappointing as the season has gone on mainly because CUA would've won that game had they not left their defense in the locker-room at halftime.

In regards to Davidson, I can do nothing but shake my head as CUA continues with this insistence on playing a D-1 opponent. It looks great for recruits, but like you said in the long run it is a meaningless game. Recruits will be impressed with NCAA tournament appearances

I listened to your Hoopsville interview with Coach Howes and did find it a little troubling that he admitted he hasn't looked at the SOS numbers or regional rankings. It's nice to think he's focused on winning the AQ, but losses do happen and you don't want to be left at the table on selection day wondering what else could have been done.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 17, 2015, 12:53:14 am
One thing I have stated often on Hoopsville and elsewhere... coaches who decide they want to serve on regional commitee (and maybe national) completely change their scheduling. It is almost uncanny. That includes Goucher when Trevino served one year (before stepping down for personal reasons). His scheduling after that year changed completely. Goucher might not compete, but he at least put some challenging teams in there more than he used to.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on February 17, 2015, 01:02:28 am
D-mac I'm with you 100% on Catholic's schedule. For years I wished Catholic would stop playing Haverford (no disrespect meant, but it didn't do anything for SOS), and it seems that while that wish was granted, they were replaced with Frostburg, another team that doesn't help. As for York, that was at the holiday tournament and CUA always seems to schedule one "bad" team, but you're right that doesn't help.

With DeSales, it doesn't ever seem to matter how good or bad CUA is, they cannot EVER win in DeSales gym. It doesn't look good to the outside world, but that was an entirely expected loss from my point of view (one could wonder why I keep driving to watch them go there to lose). The St. Vincent loss only gets more disappointing as the season has gone on mainly because CUA would've won that game had they not left their defense in the locker-room at halftime.

In regards to Davidson, I can do nothing but shake my head as CUA continues with this insistence on playing a D-1 opponent. It looks great for recruits, but like you said in the long run it is a meaningless game. Recruits will be impressed with NCAA tournament appearances

I listened to your Hoopsville interview with Coach Howes and did find it a little troubling that he admitted he hasn't looked at the SOS numbers or regional rankings. It's nice to think he's focused on winning the AQ, but losses do happen and you don't want to be left at the table on selection day wondering what else could have been done.

 Or, in the case of Matt Donahue, having to leave the table last year because his Cards women's team was under discussion.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CardsFan on February 17, 2015, 01:21:06 am
We're all agreeing with each other. At least Goucher is playing teams like Amherst, who while having a down year by their ridiculously high standards, is still waaaay better than your average D-3 team.

Once I started going to the Final Four consistently (every year since 2006) I gained a real appreciation for how good the teams at the top are and what it would take to make the leap from being a program that puts some 20-win seasons together on a fairly consistent basis to being a program that really challenges for Salem year-to-year.

I think a lot of Atlantic and Mid-Atlantic teams would benefit hugely from playing the top of the NESCAC and ODAC in the non-conference. Really they would benefit from playing some CCIW and WIAC teams, but with budgets that isn't likely.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 17, 2015, 10:52:46 am
Yes... it would help and that is why there are events like the Hoopsville Classic (sorry, shameless plug). Amherst has a connection to Goucher and this was their first trip... they enjoyed it actually and would probably come back again to play.

You have to mix in challenging games sometimes... not much more to say regarding that.

And as for Matt Donahue... you are very right, ronk... he sat off the call for I think about the last 3/4s of the selections. You know he probably knew it was bad the longer it went. Not sure if he could hear what was going on (I have heard that sometimes they just mute themselves, but can hear the conversation)... but that has to be the worst experience.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 19, 2015, 10:43:01 am
Week 2's regional rankings made an early appearance today: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/?p=2630 (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/?p=2630)
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on February 22, 2015, 07:41:03 pm
RR forecast:


 1. Johns Hopkins 22-3  3-2
 2. Dickinson  20-5  3-2
 3. Catholic  21-3   1-1
 4. Scranton  20-5   1-1
 5. F&M  20-5  3-2
 6. St. Mary's 18-4  0-0

Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2015, 01:57:53 pm
Final public men's basketball regional rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/25/final-public-ncaa-regional-rankings-released/ (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2015/02/25/final-public-ncaa-regional-rankings-released/)
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 03, 2016, 04:37:28 pm
For the third consecutive year, Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) will air for 12 hours as the regular season enters the final four weeks. Dave McHugh will chat with coaches, administrators, student-athletes, and others involved in Division III basketball from around the country. Other guests will include those who have Division III roots or appreciate the division and the game along with the student-athletes who play the sport.

Hoopsville will air from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. (and maybe later) on Thursday, February 4 live from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can see what guests are scheduled, get more information, and watch the show here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2015-16/feb4

You can also read the press release about the show: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/hoopsville-marathon-2016

Here is the guest list as we speak. All times are Eastern and subject to change. Additional guests to be added if and when necessary:
TimeGuestSchool
10:15amConnie TilleySt. Norbert (WBB) - WBCA Center Court
10:40amJamie PurdyPeidmont (WBB)
11:00amKeri CarolloUW-Whitewater (WBB) - Nat'l Committee Chair
11:20amBrent PollariSaint Mary's (Minn.) (WBB)
11:40amKent MadsenNo. 21 Wheaton (Ill.) (WBB)
12:00pmRussell LoydRose-Hulman (MBB)
12:20pmKevin BroderickNazareth (MBB)
12:40pmJustin ScottArcadia (MBB)
1:00pmSam HargravesNo. 12 Alma (MBB)
1:20pmLenny ReichMount Union (SID)
1:40pmMaureen WebsterClarkson (WBB)
2:00pmBetsy WitmanYork (Pa.) (WBB)
2:20pmSara LeeDenison (WBB)
2:40pmKlay KneuppelWisconsin Lutheran (MBB)
3:00pmBrian Van HaaftenBuena Vista (MBB) - Nat'l Committee Chair
3:30pmSydney MossNo. 1 Thomas More (WBB)
3:45pmAaron RousellBucknell (WBB) - former Chicago coach
4:00pmTim ShanahanStaten Island (WBB)
4:20Pat CunninghamTrinity (Texas) (MBB) - NABC Coach's Corner
4:50pmBubba SmithSewanee (MBB)
5:15pmBen StrongFormer Guilford All-American
5:30pmKevin ConnorsESPN SportsCenter Anchor - Ithaca alumnus
6:00pmKristen DowlingClaremont-Mudd-Scripps (WBB)
6:20pmAllison ColemanSage (WBB)
6:40pmLandry KosmalskiSwarthmore (MBB)
7:00pmDave NilandNo. 23 Penn State-Behrend (MBB)
7:20pmAaron GallettaLasell (MBB)
7:40pmJohn BaronGwynedd-Mercy (MBB)
8:00pm
8:20pm
8:40pmMelissa HodgdonWheaton (Mass.) (WBB)
9:00pmG.P. GromackiNo. 2 Amherst (WBB)
9:20pmJames Wagner
9:40pmHAPPY HOURFree-for-all of calls, tweets, and fun!

We hope to get at least the full show on a podcast, or several podcast, during the on Friday. You can find it here:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville

And a reminder the Hoopsville Fundraising Project has begun yet again. Please consider helping us cover Division III basketball the way it deserves to be covered. If you can not donate, please don't worry about - we understand. At least share the campaign with anyone you think might be interested: http://igg.me/at/hoopsville-fundraiser/x/6029509

Also, if you know any advertisers interested in promoting their company or products on the show, send them our way: hoopsville@d3hoops.com

Thanks!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on February 08, 2016, 10:29:53 pm
Knight Slappy's Mid-Atlantic Regional Ranking projection

Data updated through Sunday 2/7. We'll see the first regional rankings using this data on Wednesday.

http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/

Susquehanna
Christopher Newport
Salisbury
Catholic
F&M
Scranton
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2016, 10:57:21 pm
Knight Slappy's Mid-Atlantic Regional Ranking projection

Data updated through Sunday 2/7. We'll see the first regional rankings using this data on Wednesday.

http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/

Susquehanna
Christopher Newport
Salisbury
Catholic
F&M
Scranton

CNU will be first - other than that, I think it's good.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on February 08, 2016, 11:26:43 pm
  I have Susque higher, mostly because of winning @ Scranton while CNU lost to Scranton @ home.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2016, 08:06:23 am
  I have Susque higher, mostly because of winning @ Scranton while CNU lost to Scranton @ home.

20 wins vs 16, with a pretty similar SOS.  CNU will come out on top.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Swish3 on February 09, 2016, 08:46:41 am
Yeah, the amount of regional wins would probably be CNU's only advantage, as I think they would both be 2-1 versus rro...
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: ronk on February 09, 2016, 09:35:56 am
Yeah, the amount of regional wins would probably be CNU's only advantage, as I think they would both be 2-1 versus rro...

  There won't be an rro for the 1st week, just results and common opponents considerations to differentiate. 
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2016, 12:24:15 pm
Yeah - it isn't possible to have Results Versus Regionally Ranked Opponents when there are no regional rankings to begin with. They also don't rerank after the Regional Rankings are voted on - that ONLY happens at the end of the season when those last regional rankings can affect vRRO dramatically. So there is a large chunk of the data that won't be used.

From what I was able to #gleen last week in the practice/mock rankings, Christopher Newport was #1. I don't see any reason they won't remain there.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Swish3 on February 09, 2016, 02:18:11 pm
Thanks, guys, I didn't think it through before commenting...
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: CardsFan on February 09, 2016, 03:11:10 pm
So it seems barring something drastic neither Susquehanna nor CNU need to worry about any of the other teams passing them in the rankings. Pretty clear they're the two best teams.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2016, 03:42:27 pm
I think they are safe and considering their locations I think they are safe to host, believe it or not. However, Susquehanna would have to worry the most as a few losses and they could come back to earth and CUA or Scranton could get in front of them. I don't think CNU has anything to fear per se.

But here's the big thing... the first of four regional rankings come out tomorrow. Between tomorrow and the final, non-public, rankings... a LOT can change. Plus, when vRRO comes into play, it could alter somethings next week.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 10, 2016, 01:55:55 pm
Regional Rankings: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/10/first-2016-regional-rankings-released-today/
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2016, 02:19:05 pm
Final public regional rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2016/02/24/third-ncaa-regional-ranking/
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: cmackowiakSGSN on January 22, 2018, 05:19:12 pm
Below is my first edition of 'Sea Gull Bracketology' for the 2017-18 season for The Flyer, the student newspaper at Salisbury University. It features analysis of the non-conference schedule for Salisbury and also the general blueprint of the Capital Athletic Conference. Let me know what you think!

https://thesuflyer.com/2018/01/22/2018-sea-gull-bracketology-jan-22/ (https://thesuflyer.com/2018/01/22/2018-sea-gull-bracketology-jan-22/)
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2018, 04:28:19 pm
Below is my first edition of 'Sea Gull Bracketology' for the 2017-18 season for The Flyer, the student newspaper at Salisbury University. It features analysis of the non-conference schedule for Salisbury and also the general blueprint of the Capital Athletic Conference. Let me know what you think!

https://thesuflyer.com/2018/01/22/2018-sea-gull-bracketology-jan-22/ (https://thesuflyer.com/2018/01/22/2018-sea-gull-bracketology-jan-22/)

Good analysis, but if the SOS ends up at .504, there's almost no chance for a Pool C - I'd be willing to say no chance at all with the number of losses they've already got.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 07, 2018, 05:44:26 pm
Men's first regional rankings this season: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Smitty Oom on February 08, 2018, 01:04:15 pm
Anyone else surprised Lycoming was above Swarthmore?
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: gordonmann on February 08, 2018, 01:14:36 pm
Dave knows this stuff way better than I do, but I don't think this round includes wins against regionally ranked opponents. So Swarthmore's win over Middlebury wouldn't have been part of the discussion.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2018, 01:33:44 pm
The committee is probably splitting hairs with those two in the first week. Equal losses, equal SOS (Lyco - .512; Swat: .514) and on a quick glance I see only one comparable games (Hood, both won easily, though 2nd win tighter for Lyco)...

Next week when vRRO is put into this conversation, Lyco isn't going to be able to stay ahead of Swarthmore. The simple fact is Lyco will be 1-0 in that category and Swarthmore will be 2-2 (with a JHU game to add for this week).

Again. They are probably even. It doesn't appear they looked at Non-Conference SOS where Swarthmore has a large advantage... but that also speaks to the fact that the MAC Commonwealth has a strong conference SOS than the Centennial. It starts going in circles.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: cmackowiakSGSN on February 12, 2018, 08:16:31 am
New bleachers are set to come to Salisbury's Maggs Gym in May; SU Athletics leadership has started a community petition to make a new indoor facility a 'top priority.' I sat down with SU Athletics Director Dr. Gerry DiBartolo to discuss it all.

https://thesuflyer.com/2018/02/12/petition-circulates-as-su-athletics-backs-new-indoor-facility/
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2018, 10:10:35 am
New bleachers are set to come to Salisbury's Maggs Gym in May; SU Athletics leadership has started a community petition to make a new indoor facility a 'top priority.' I sat down with SU Athletics Director Dr. Gerry DiBartolo to discuss it all.

https://thesuflyer.com/2018/02/12/petition-circulates-as-su-athletics-backs-new-indoor-facility/

With all the new buildings they've put up down there, there can't be much more they need to do besides a new athletic facility, right?
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2018, 12:48:04 pm
New bleachers are set to come to Salisbury's Maggs Gym in May; SU Athletics leadership has started a community petition to make a new indoor facility a 'top priority.' I sat down with SU Athletics Director Dr. Gerry DiBartolo to discuss it all.

https://thesuflyer.com/2018/02/12/petition-circulates-as-su-athletics-backs-new-indoor-facility/

With all the new buildings they've put up down there, there can't be much more they need to do besides a new athletic facility, right?

State school... state budgets... that said, they have been making a lot of changes to athletic facilities. I am sure the gym is on the list and will be done, but it also has the biggest impact on offices, infrastructure, etc. Just ask NYU about that impact. :)
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 14, 2018, 02:03:41 pm
Week 2 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Swish3 on February 19, 2018, 11:28:43 am
The regional rankings should be interesting this week...JH might take the #1 spot from York, and I'm hoping CNU moves up a spot or two, but not sure that will happen based on the results and SOS of the teams ahead of them.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2018, 02:45:29 pm
The NCAA men's basketball regional advisory committees released their third set of rankings, and as expected, the Atlantic Region was among those getting shuffled. Here's the full list: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/02/men-regional-rankings-third

(http://cdnak1.psbin.com/img/mw=600/mh=600/cr=n/d=4ima3/dinflo07zg1qa2ww.jpg)
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Swish3 on February 21, 2018, 03:10:19 pm
Nice jump to #2 for the Captains, which I wasn't expecting...also didn't think York would hang on to 1st...exciting days to come!
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2018, 04:06:53 pm
Nice jump to #2 for the Captains, which I wasn't expecting...also didn't think York would hang on to 1st...exciting days to come!

Those first 6 teams are basically even at this point.  You could make arguments for just about any order.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Swish3 on February 22, 2018, 01:19:45 pm
Nice jump to #2 for the Captains, which I wasn't expecting...also didn't think York would hang on to 1st...exciting days to come!

Those first 6 teams are basically even at this point.  You could make arguments for just about any order.

Yep, they're pretty close...if CNU can take care of business, they'd likely be the #1 seed in the MA, but first things first.
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 06, 2019, 04:17:34 pm
Here are the first rankings for the men this season: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2019, 03:24:37 pm
The second week Regional Rankings have been released: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 03:39:44 pm
The third public NCAA Division III regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-third
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 12, 2019, 05:44:42 pm
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=2f32h/3hyl0b8jvq4hveyi.jpg)

The basketball season now finds itself square in the middle of not only the holidays, but also finals. Teams are taking breaks to focus on academics and either not playing until the new year or finding openings to fit in games here and there.

And while the tempo of games subsides a bit, there is still plenty of news swirling around Division III. Tune in as Dave and guests tackle all of the news this week in what should be a jam-packed Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) on Thursday night.

Topics will include the latest news of two Capital Athletic Conference members announcing they are leaving for other conference homes. What is next for the CAC which will be down to just three members by 2021-22 season. The rumors about St. Thomas's future continue to swirl, we at least try and put some of those rumors to rest. And a MIAC president finally speaks out about the decision to push UST out the door. Maybe he should have not said anything.

Plus, there is a new number one team in women's basketball, a team that nearly completed an undefeated season has reemerged, another former champion is showing they may be back in the hunt, and a program we haven't talked about in a long time has made it known they are ready for the season.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Thursday's show LIVE with the following options:
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- Team1 Sports app (https://team1sports.com/) (Android TV, Amazon Fire, Apple TV, Roku) - you will either find it under the "live" section or search for the Hoopsville channel

If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com or use any of the social media options to the right.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Doreen Carden, Albion women's coach
- Jill Pace, No. 1 Tufts women's coach
- Stephen Brennan, No. 14 Babson men's coach
- Keith Bunkenburg, No. 24 Benedictine coach

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Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2020, 03:17:51 pm
First Regional Rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-first
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 19, 2020, 01:16:06 pm
Week 2's Regional Rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: General Mid-Atlantic Conversation
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2020, 02:40:13 pm
The Week 3 men's regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-third