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D3soccer.com => Men's soccer => Topic started by: Saint of Old on August 12, 2014, 12:14:06 pm

Title: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 12, 2014, 12:14:06 pm
Only 4 Qualify for League Tourney

2013 Standings
SLU
RPI
Skidmore
Vassar

2014  Top 6 (Predictions in no particular order)

HOBART
A couple dissapointing seasons, but a good freshman class and continued growth should  put them in the hunt for a post season birth or even Dance expectations.

UNION
2013 was close, but no cigar in terms of post season after starting the year on a 11 game unbebaten streak. Must beat 2 of last seasons league opponents to have a chance at qualification. Union is a good squad, but must play better non-conference schedule in order to better prepare for a tough league.

VASSAR
A consistently strong team over the last decade. Made NCAA and advanced in both '11 and '12.
Vassar also have an AMAZING record against every other team in the Leauge. Four ties in league play last year however, almost saw them fail to qualify. They are well coached and are looking to make another forward step. Back to back years of not dancing will not help their cause.

RPI
Another team that Danced and danced well in '11 and '12, but failed to make the NCAA in '13.
Beaten in the League semi-final by Skidmore last season, RPI still had a relative succesful year, including beating final 4 participant, Williams. It will be a tough season for the well coached RPI however, as many teams in the league have improved dramatically and ready to take the spot that now belongs to RPI. 

SKIDMORE
The most improved team in the league.
These boys have recreated the SLU formula of stifling defense and Jamaican/African flair up top.
They are the only team in the league to beat St. Lawrence in '12 and '13.
Made it to last seasons league tourney final, and were perhaps unlucky not to get an at-large invitation to the NCAA's. Teams will underestimate Skidmore to their peril this year.
They are the real deal. Potent offense and extremely hungry after last season's dissapointment.

St. Lawrence

The boys in red have had a good run since 2010.
Won league in 10,11 and 13, adding the Tourney in 10 and 13 as well.
This year however, will be the toughest yet, after losing a 4 year starter/All American at the center of midfield. This team has struggled with injuries the last few years, and will hope for a healthy year.

Close but no Cigar:

RIT
Good team, but will not win more than 3 league games, and more is needed.

Clarkson
Not good enough for the league. With new coach and everything going the right way, maybe an average team by 2017.

Bard:
Three years into the building process, and Bard are still a work in progress. Should hope for competitiveness in a good leaggue and attempt to attract the pieces needed to improve.
It is difficult to enter a good league and find success. Just ask Hamilton, no one has heard from them in NESCAC in 4 years.

Thoughts?


Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on August 13, 2014, 04:03:34 am
Saint:  This is going to be one of the most competitive years in Liberty League history.  But for last year's MVP all the top offensive players are back and based on published recruiting classes everyone has been loading up on defense.  I agree with your take on the top 6 teams and here are my thoughts on those teams in no specific order:

SLU:  Still the team to beat and will be stronger this year than last as younger skill players have another year and they only lose one impact player, albeit an All American.  Goalie was in the zone all year and deserved All American status.  It will be interesting to see whether he can repeat his phenomenal performance for a second year in a row.  SLU's bench could beat some of the lower echelon LL teams.   

Skidmore:  Last year may have been their best chance to make the NCAA tournament.  Two all region offensive players return but they have had consistency issues for a long time.  They can play a great game and follow it with a mediocre or poor one.  This is one of the main reasons the committee overlooked them last year.

RPI:  Like most teams in this group RPI returns almost everyone.  They also have an early season edge having taken a summer trip to Costa Rica.  They will be 4 or 5 games ahead of the other teams at the end of August.  Another team that has been bitten by the inconsistency bug.  They beat Williams last year and then laid an egg against Skidmore at home in the League semi-finals. 

Union:  Totally agree that Union's non-league schedule is a ball and chain on their tournament hopes.  Only strong team they play pre-league is Oneonta, and that is a pre-season scrimmage.  Union must have Vassar on the brain as Vassar has effectively ended their season three years running.  Union returns a bunch of players but not being challenged before league is a real impediment.  They should be motivated by school's hockey team who won the D1 national championship. 

Vassar:  Vassar has had a remarkable LL run.  They haven't lost to a LL team other than SLU the past two seasons.  As Union has to beat Vassar, Vassar has to beat SLU.  Vassar replaces 5 starters, more than any other elite team.  They have one of the top LL goal scorers who is the only returning unanimous First Teamer.  Filling holes and quality non-league opponents like Stevens and Oneonta could make for a difficult year.

Hobart:  Started mostly freshman and sophomores last year, and freshman center-mid was one of the best players in the LL.  Recruiting class is excellent and the biggest concern is going to be the maturation process of all this young talent.  Hobart still may be a year away, but if they don't make the dance this year, look out in 2015 and 2016.  The men's team may also be motivated to get out of the shadow of the women who won the National Championship last year.           











Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on August 15, 2014, 04:46:44 pm
I agree with (and appreciate) the assessments of both Saint of Old and deutschfan. It would be nice if LL could get a couple of teams into the NCAA tournament this year.  Aside from the two links below, I haven't been able to dig up much on the incoming classes of LL teams.  I did hear that Skidmore has a few strong New Englanders coming in, but that they lost one of their starting wide backs from last year to a D1 school (transfer).

http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2014/6/17/HSC_0617143137.aspx

http://www.saintsathletics.com/news/2014/6/30/MSOC_0630140236.aspx




Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on August 16, 2014, 08:20:34 pm
Student Sports lists a recruit each for RIT and RPI, and the former Vassar Asst., now the head coach at Clarkson, in his bio says he recruited 3 USSDA players for Vassar.  In less than two weeks we should know the freshman classes for all the LL teams. 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on August 18, 2014, 12:22:59 am
I was interested to see that Bard and Middlebury held a joint clinic this spring at Bard.  It seems like a win-win for the two programs.  Middlebury gets to look at players in the tri-state area without the players having to hike all the way up to Vermont and Bard attracts players to their campus who might not otherwise visit.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: LaPaz on August 19, 2014, 10:39:53 am
Bard's old coach is a longtime Midd assistant.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on August 22, 2014, 06:19:38 pm
In making pre-season LL predictions the following is a list of number of returning all-league players (assuming they are returning) by team: 1) SLU-6; 2) Hobart-4; 3) Skidmore-3; 4) RPI-3; 5) Union-2; 6) Vassar-1.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on August 22, 2014, 09:14:58 pm
In the absence of other compelling information, the number of returning all-league players is probably as good a basis as any for predicting the outcome of the season. In a conference of "St. Lawrence and everybody else except for a couple at the bottom," gradations may emerge in the "everyone else" clump over the course of the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on August 28, 2014, 12:03:36 pm
Pre Season Rankings (For what its worth):

http://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2014/8/27/MSOC_0827140521.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on August 29, 2014, 06:04:01 pm
In Friday afternoon action...

SLU 5 - SUNY Cortlandt 2

Clarkson 2 - Moravian 0

Montclair State 3 - Skidmore 2

Vassar 2 - SUNY Maritime 0
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on September 01, 2014, 10:05:53 pm
Takes after the first weekend.  Top six are still the same but Clarkson is knocking and Hobart and Vassar are dropping.  Charlie Kelly, freshman of the year is no longer on Hobart's roster.  Giving up 5 goals to Brandeis in a half after a Brazil v. Germany kind of performance has gotta be disappointing even if Brandeis turns out to be all-world this year.  Vassar's first team all region forward Tom Weichert is on the roster but not playing which likely means he is injured.  Unless he returns soon Vassar will have a tough time scoring which they demonstrated against Mt. St. Mary's.  Clarkson's 2-0 start will have Coach Taylor's team believing they can make the playoffs.  RPI is off to a fast start as expected given their pre-season trip, and Union likely will go undefeated until League but that won't matter if they can't win there due to SOS.  Skidmore's killer B's Brock Bakewell and Adam Beek are scoring points per usual.  An early loss to a perpetually strong Montclair State team in a very close game bodes well for their future.  St. Lawrence's all world goalie gave up two in the first game so maybe there is hope for the rest of the league.       
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 01, 2014, 11:39:51 pm
I concur with your assessment completely and would add that Bard's 15 first-year players (!) seem to be having an immediate impact.  They may not be the pushover they have been  the past few years.  It's interesting to note that they scored 2 goals on Mt. St. Mary, whereas Vassar went scoreless against the same opponent.  Hobart has a 0 GD in one of the strangest ways possible and although the roof caved in during the last 30 minutes of the Brandeis game, they deserve at least some credit for the first 60 minutes of keeping the Judges off the board.  I streamed parts of the Skidmore-Montclair State game and was impressed with Skidmore's integration of first-year players into the lineup.  We'll know more in a few days!
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 02, 2014, 10:11:20 am
Hobart definitely helped themselves with a 5-0 win in their 2nd game of the year.
Brandeis is a good squad, but hopefully some holes in defense will be closed after watching tapes of the weekend.

Skidmore did well against a good team on the road.
3-2 also suggests that defensive issues might have to be corrected.
Skidmore should do well in the attacking portion of their game this year, but the old saying "Defense wins Tournaments" applies more than ever this year.

Speaking of defensive issues. After 16 shut outs lastyear, SLU gives up 2 goals in the first game  of the year. Not good enough for a team looking to improve this year.

Clarkson might turn out to be a pleasant surprise this season, but like Union can tell you, non-conference wins do not count for anything unless you make the league Tournament!
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 04, 2014, 07:35:23 pm
Any predictions for tomorrow night's big game between St. Lawrence and Rochester? I suspect that Rochester is still smarting a bit from last week's upset loss to Morrisville. This match between two of the region's top programs should give both teams an  idea of their early season form.  My guess?  A 1-1 draw.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 04, 2014, 08:57:11 pm
SLU has won this game I think the last 4 games.
Prior to that however, U of R had a good run.
Rochester lost 3-2 overtime to a team with strong defense and West Indian flair. This describes SLU to a T.


Rochester has a point to prove, and playing infront of their home fans in perhaps their biggest game of the year.

SLU is stronger this year than last, and knows how important it will be to have home field come Dance time.


SLU 3-1.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 05, 2014, 05:59:51 pm
Tough afternoon so far for LL teams:

SUNY Geneseo 2 - Clarkson 0

SUNY Oneonta 1 - RIT 0
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Firsttouch on September 05, 2014, 08:03:38 pm
SLU defense has already given up 4 goals this season. They graduated a midfielder and thats all.....the entire back line returns. this does not look good for the saints
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 05, 2014, 11:39:49 pm
Holy moly, boy was I wrong about the score of the UR-SLU game!  I didn't splurge on the stream, opting instead to follow the sporadic "live stats."  I didn't realize that UR only had 3 shots in the whole game until I read the game report.  Perhaps SLU was unlucky on the defensive end?  Earlier, I caught bits and pieces of the Skidmore game.  With two goals and two assists, Adam Beek led the way to complete domination of SUNY Potsdam.  The goal for Potsdam was an aberration in a game highlighting the quality Skidmore's special players.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 08, 2014, 03:06:08 pm
You are not the only one that got the SLU v. U of R wrong :)

U of R proved they are a very quality team, but the result perhaps shows that Morrisville State(who beat Rochester) is also legit. St. Lawrence must rectify its defensive issues before it really hurts them.

Giving up 6 goals in 4 games is unacceptable, injuries or not.

Rochester followed up by getting 0-0 tie against an improved Clarkson, while SLU bearly managed to beat Geneseo who outshot St. Lawrence in a tightly contested game.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 12, 2014, 02:25:36 am
Lots of games are on tap for this weekend. There are no real marquee match-ups, but I am especially interested in the Hobart-Rochester game. Things didn't go well for the Statesmen in their last clash with a UAA opponent, so this game is an opportunity to see if the Brandeis match was an aberration and to find out how they do against Rochester compared to how St. Lawrence and Clarkson did.  Until league play begins in two weeks, we'll have to make due with inferences based on performances against common opponents (which give one a general idea about where teams are, but are not as informative as one might prefer).       
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 13, 2014, 10:35:34 pm
With all teams in action and only Skidmore, RPI, and Clarkson coming away with victories, it was a rough day for the Liberty League.  Adam Beek continued his torrid streak, RPI remained hot after their Costa Rican adventure, and Clarkson served further notice of its massively improved status under Coach Taylor.  What did we learn about the rest of the league?  Bard came back to earth against Potsdam, Union has not yet caught its stride, hard luck RIT fell just short once again, youthful Vassar is not ready for prime time, St. Lawrence has a bit more work to do before returning to its rightful spot atop the league, and Hobart kept it close against Rochester in a marked improvement over their first clash with a UAA foe.  Clarkson and St. Lawrence look to add to their win totals tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 14, 2014, 11:29:16 am
SLU dominated shots and possession, but managed to lose the second road game of the season.

St. Lawrence has a problem on defense and with leadership that they must rectify before the start of league play.
One more loss and they could need to win the LL Tourney to get a bid.

Clarkson is serving early notice of improvement, and in all honesty the best team in the league at this stage is clearly RPI based on performance so far.

Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: LaPaz on September 15, 2014, 01:09:22 pm
hey Saint of old I noticed a mt.greylock(williamstown kid) Houston playing in net recently....whats the situation in goal the past few games?
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2014, 01:14:48 pm
SLU has been hit with the injury bug, maybe worse than they were in 2011. SLU goalie is a great kid who ooozes confidence, but was injured recently.
 Freshman was in goal for both games this weekend.
The Goalie performed relatively well yesturday to get his first colelge win despite the scoreline.
Hopefully a few of the boyz will be healthy come October.

Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on September 15, 2014, 10:31:03 pm
With or without SLU's senior keeper being healthy, 6 teams are competing for 1 spot in the playoffs.  RPI, Skidmore and SLU are locks.  I wouldn't foreclose any team from the last spot.  Although RIT has the worst record to date, it showed well against Oneonta, a team that may be in the top 3 team by tomorrow.  The RPI-Skidmore fixture this week should be an excellent gauge of who is on track for the Liberty League finals.   
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2014, 10:51:37 pm
Tomorrow's league opener is an intriguing match-up.  Giving up only 1 goal in 6 games, RPI is off to a quick start following its Costa Rica trip and will be at home under the lights.  Skidmore will be led by the seemingly unstoppable Adam Beek, who has been involved in 9 of the team's 14 goals, and freshman sensation Augustine Okoye, who has 4 goals and 2 assists.  I'll go with the immovable object at home over the irresistible force, RPI 2 - Skidmore 1.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 16, 2014, 10:00:20 pm
Immovable Object prevails over Irresistable Force, RPI 1 - Skidmore 0 (2OT).  It's tough to know exactly how the game went going by Live Stats, but it looks like RPI was the stronger team throughout (19 shots for RPI versus 10 for Skidmore, 9 SOG versus 1 SOG).  Anyone see the game?
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 17, 2014, 08:19:41 am
Now that was prescient!

RPI is a strong squad and has proven to be the best in the LL ... so far.
RPI also beat Skidmore in a close game last season before falling to them in Conference Semi.
This looks to be a stronger RPI however.
They have been really good for a while now, could this be the year they make the jump.
Next two games are against Williams and Oneonta.
If they split those two, they are legit indeed for a good run.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 18, 2014, 11:25:10 pm
Thanks, Saint!  If you throw enough darts, one is bound to find the board every once in a while.

Yesterday was another tough day at the office for Liberty League teams, with only Hobart finding joy.  Bard seems to be coming back to earth, Clarkson appears to have had an off night, Union is having trouble breaking through, and Vassar is experiencing offensive difficulties against their better opponents.  Does all this give Hobart the early season edge in securing the #4 spot?

I'm definitely looking forward to the next two RPI games.  The Skidmore and SLU games with Plattsburgh should also be revealing.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 20, 2014, 12:41:02 am
I caught much of the second half stream of the SLU game at Potsdam.  It looked like the Saints were firmly in control and, apart from a few dicey moments during a string of corner kicks, were not in danger of being scored upon.  It's tough to get past Copeland, isn't it?!
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on September 23, 2014, 02:24:40 am
Some big grudge games this weekend with major playoff implications.  Hobart hasn't beaten St. Lawrence since 2009 and Skidmore hasn't beaten Vassar since 2008.  Hobart has been improving since the Brandeis drubbing and with St. Lawrence relying on freshmen to score goals Hobart has an excellent chance to pull the upset.  It will be interesting to see how injured St. Lawrence's line up really is now that league games have begun.  Both teams have demonstrated excellent defense making the outcome a tossup.  If Skidmore wins it will not be an upset despite the history.  Skidmore has at least three scary good scoring threats.  Despite a low number of shots on goal Skidmore had a number of dangerous chances against RPI, the team that is playing the best soccer in the league right now, which could have easily ended the game in Skidmore's favor.  Vassar has not had a statement game against a quality team.  Its one shot against Stevens may have been lowest in its history.  Vassar's offense will be a serious question mark as long as their best striker remains sidelined and their starting freshmen learn to play tough matches.   
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 23, 2014, 08:11:39 am
Good analysis.
I agree that RPI has been playing the best in the league so far, even after being dominated by Oneonta, who seems to be dominating everyone.
Skidmore will be in the Tournament, but the way it looks now might be on the road.
The 2009 Hobart win v. SLU was actually at the home of St. Lawrence. Saints may be a bit venerable this season, as more than a dozen players missed and continue to miss games due to injury. Including  All American and very very key players.
SLU must make lemonade out of lemons by having their younger guys show what they have, perhaps a season or two early. Vassar plays soccer the right way and had been making steady progress to National attention before last season's failure to make the dance.
There is no dance without making the LL Tourney, so all these teams know what is on the line.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on September 26, 2014, 04:40:52 pm
Great insights by deutschfan and Saint of Old!  After the RPI-Skidmore teaser last week, the rest of the league is primed to begin the LL season tomorrow afternoon.  Early on, it's hard to make predictions with any degree of confidence, but I'll give it the old college try anyway.  Here goes:

Bard has shown signs of improvement, but Union appears to have awakened from its slumber and should be able to start league play with a W.  Union 3 - Bard 0

The RIT-Clarkson match shows no signs of being a goalfest, although I expect the visitors to find the back of the net at least once.  RIT 1 - Clarkson 0

Hobart has definitely improved since the start of the season.  SLU's injury status may play a role in the outcome, but I see the Saints turning it up a notch and claiming a narrow victory.  SLU 2 - Hobart 1

As noted, Skidmore has multiple potent offensive weapons.  Vassar seems to be offensively challenged and has struggled defensively on the road.  Skidmore 3 - Vassar 0

 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on September 27, 2014, 01:19:12 pm
It takes a brave or crazy man to attempt predictions in the LL this year, so here I go:

SLU Hobart:

St. Lawrence has lost its #1 Goalie and #1 striker and #1 Defender this season, after starting the season without its #1 Midfielder lost to graduation. Hobart  meantime is a team on the rise after a horrible start.

On Sandy though, its tough to stop SLU.
2-0

Vassar Skidmore Tie.

Clarkson could shock people this year I think.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on September 27, 2014, 06:50:44 pm
Saint and Ommadawn--you are braver than me.  I do have enough fortitude to do the post mortems.

SLU-Hobart:  Horrific start for Hobart ended the game in the first 15 minutes.  SLU is way deep and can plug in quality players at every position if someone goes down.  SLU is once again the team to beat this year.  RPI moves to second on the deutschfan ratings given the Skidmore result.

Skidmore-Vassar:  League's leading scorer only plays the second half and it costs Skidmore dearly.  Despite almost 2-1 advantage in shots Skidmore loses at home and loses the first tiebreaker with Vassar if it comes to that.  Vassar was beaten badly by the only three quality teams it has faced before Skidmore.  Either they stepped it up enormously or Skidmore is not as quality as once thought.   

RIT-Clarkson:  This looked to be a pretty even game going in given RIT's close losses to Rochester and Oneonta and Clarkson's tie with Rochester.  Late goal by RIT seals the second half comeback on the road.  Now the question is where is RIT and Clarkson compared to Hobart, Vassar and Skidmore.  Going into this weekend I had 6 teams vying for 1 spot in the playoffs.  Now it is 6 for 2 as Skidmore's place on the playoff list is definitely at risk and Bard proves it can't contend.

Union-Bard: 8-0 takes Bard off the contender list but still leaves Union a question mark as to how they will fare against the better LL teams. 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: LaPaz on September 29, 2014, 04:19:57 pm
After watching the RPI v Skidmore game a week ago I have to disagree that RPI is the better side. RPI is more solid on the backline but have nothing going forward except Koziel and Gunderson. Dewald is very solid in net but you get the feeling against better teams if RPI falls behind they have little to no chance of getting back in the game. Skidmore has more weapons with Beek and the two dangerous boys from Nigeria. I thought Skidmore had better chances in the game and if they had finished them they could have won the game.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on September 30, 2014, 04:52:19 pm
LaPaz--I agree that on paper Skidmore is the more dangerous side and actually looked more dangerous against RPI than the statistics show.  Be that as it may, they are in real trouble.  Assuming they don't make it 3 years in a row without a defeat by SLU, they can't lose another LL game.  I don't think you can get into the LL playoffs with 9 teams and 4 losses.  Statistically it is possible but not likely.  If Skidmore doesn't it will be a frustrating 4 years for an excellent group of seniors--no regular league championships, no LL tourney championships, one LL tourney appearance, and no NCAA bids.   
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on October 06, 2014, 07:46:11 pm
Skidmore is dangerous indeed. Beek's double against Williams shows the young man's quality.
Even at 0-2 who really wants to face Skidmore in a possible elimination game?
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on October 06, 2014, 11:27:18 pm
Have to get there first. Quality Williams win follows a mediocre performance at home in a league contest. Three teams are a lock--SLU, RPi, and Vassar after three very efficient and effective performances. Coach Jennings and his staff already deserve coaching staff of the year accolades given how they have developed at least 4 impact freshmen and utilized a total team approach for scoring. Beek also clearly deserves offensive player of the year honors.  5 teams now vying for one playoff spot with Union on the verge of joining Bard looking in.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on October 10, 2014, 01:55:48 pm
RPI is in.
Despite being at 2-1, they have already played SLU and Skidmore.
They should be able to get 3 wins the rest of the way.

SLU is also in good position for a ll tourney spot

Vassar at 3-0 are also in.

That means there is one spot up for grabs after three games played.
Union,Skidmore,RIT,Clarkson and Hobart are all fighting for one spot.
The list should dwindle to 3 teams after this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on October 21, 2014, 01:00:42 am
Down to two teams now fighting for the last spot, Hobart and Skidmore.  End of year awards are already pretty much a lock unless a dark horse makes a tremendous end of year push: OPOY-Beek, DPOY-Copeland, Coaching Staff-Vassar; Rookie-Okoye.  It is conceivable that two LL teams make the dance--SLU and RPI.  However, if one fails to make the finals it could be like last year with only one LL team getting in.  The 3 and 4 spot teams will have too many, or too ugly of losses to receive an invite unless they win the LL Tourney.  What a roller coaster ride for Coach Taylor: beat your mentor and an undefeated team in league on Friday and be on the losing end of Bard's first ever LL win on Saturday.  That's why they play the games.     
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: lastguyoffthebench on October 21, 2014, 09:46:21 am

With Rochester and SIT underperforming this year, RPI should be ahead of both.  SIT needs to win the E8 this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2014, 11:47:47 am
I still believe that if the Skidmore boys come to play they are a really tough out. However, like some talented Nescac teams Skidmore(especially the talented Beek) do not get up for every game. Their defense has some holes but that is an NCAA team for sure with some of those weapons.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2014, 12:04:58 pm
They were an NCAA team as well last year but did not get an invite.
Unfortunately if they lose to SLU, they are likely out of the League Tourney with no chance of making the dance.

They do know however that this is a game they can win.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2014, 12:12:30 pm
Yeah I really felt the winner of that RPI v Skidmore game should have gotten in over Miserecordia.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2014, 01:58:21 pm
I am not so sure Skidmore would be eliminated with a loss to SLU. They will beat Union and Bard and finish 4-3-1. Hobart does not have definite wins at RIT and at home to Clarkson. Hobart could finish 3-2-3. Not sure if the Liberty League uses win % or total points like Nescac.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on October 25, 2014, 11:29:26 pm
Liberty League uses total points, followed by head-to-head, followed by who did best against the top teams in descending order which is why Union lost out to Vassar last year with the same number of points and a tie head-to-head.  After this weekend's contests SLU has No.1 locked and RPI has No.2 locked so they will be playing at home.  If Hobart beats RIT it is in and has the 3rd or 4th seed depending on what the other teams do.  If Vassar beats Bard or Union they are in.  Skidmore gets in only if they win out and Hobart loses to or ties RIT, or Vassar doesn't get a win in either of their last two games.  Union has a mathematical possibility as did Texas Tech today before TCU dropped 82 points on them.  RPI's win today probably gets them a NCAA bid if they make the LL final and similarly for SLU, although it is possible that SLU could get in with an upset loss in the semis.  Whoever 3 and 4 are will have to win the tournament to secure a bid. IMHO     
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on October 27, 2014, 06:25:20 pm
Skidmore are not done until they are done.
They cans till beat anyone in the league, but now they may not get the chance.
I am sure Hobart understands this.
Luckily for the Statesmen  they just have to win and they are in.
RPI is quite a program, winning is starting to become a habit, even when they play below their standards.
They will host the opening round of the Tourney after being picked to not make the Tournament by the pre-season Coaches poll.
Vassar are always tough and it seems always manage to make the conference tournament.
Unfortunately for them, anything short of a win could make the dance impossible.
Union's year was 2013 it seems in hindsight.
I predicted Clarkson would shock a few people which they did, just didn't think they would lose to Bard.
In 2015  Bard will shock a few people.

Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2014, 05:55:49 pm
RPI down 1-0 at the half at Keene St. Keene St are an athletic team but nowhere near the talent they used to have. An absolute downpour up in Keene. RPI really have no wiggle room right now and needs to somehow get a result here.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2014, 06:13:15 pm
Keene St up 2-0 now. RPI looks really flat.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on October 30, 2014, 12:15:03 pm
Still think RPI is in if they can beat Vassar twice in one year.
Last year they were unable to do it and missed the  NCAA as a result.

Vassar will have to win the whole thing in order to advance.
They have lost to some very good teams (Stevens/Oneonta/RPI) but still counts as losses.

Union is now mathematically out of contention for the tournament.

Hobart is playing now for its legacy as a top conference team. They cannot afford to miss the conference tourney for yet another year in a row.

Skidmore looked deflated after losing to SLU at home, do they have one more push in them?

Clarkson/Bard can take away positives from the season as they knew they were in a rebuilding process during pre-season.
RIT is simply too enigmatic to assess.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on October 30, 2014, 08:19:20 pm
RPI faces an uphill battle. They need to beat Vassar and hopefully bunker in against SLU and get a draw. They really need Brockport and Cortland and even UR to slip up
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on November 01, 2014, 09:48:15 pm
I agree with Mr. Right--which makes sense if he is Mr. Right--RPI needs to beat Vassar or they likely drop out of at-large consideration.  Will 2013 repeat itself and RPI lay an egg at home?  Williams and Skidmore losses hurt RPI's strength of schedule and place the quality of those results in question (Williams actually totally dominated RPI except on the scoreboard).  As for Skidmore, I know there is a lot of respect for them on this board but in four years, with two top quality offensive players and a quality keeper, they have only gotten into the LL tourney once, and never to the dance.  They could win two of the top LL awards this year while having a losing LL record.  Likewise, same situation for Union--4 years, one LL tourney appearance, no dance.  Next year likely will be more of the same with SLU's depth and quality of underclassmen, Hobart's bounty of young talent, and Vassar's group of impact freshmen. 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on November 01, 2014, 11:31:02 pm
With the regular season in the books, I revisited the predictions made during preseason and noticed that Saint of Old and deutschfan both picked the top 6 to perfection, with the official LL preseason poll of head coaches netting 5 of the top 6 (see below):

Place. Team, Points
1. St. Lawrence, 62.5
2. Skidmore, 53.5
3. Union, 43
4. Hobart, 41
5. RPI, 40
6. Vassar, 36
7. RIT, 25
8. Clarkson, 15
9. Bard, 8

RPI and Vassar both exceeded the coaches' expectations, while Skidmore and Union did not accomplish as much as the coaches anticipated they would.  There is reason for optimism for next year for most of the teams in the league, as most of the teams received strong contributions from newcomers.  I would expect Skidmore and RPI to feel the effects of graduation most strongly.  I am getting ahead of myself, though, as the playoffs await...
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2014, 08:51:14 am
Lucky guesses I assure you :)

This is shaping up to be quite the conference tournament.
Vassar at this point is expected to be in the conference final 4. They are a team on the rise and have been for the better part of the last decade. They have played some good competition this year in preparation for this test against RPI. Biggest obstacle for them is that RPI is coming in with a sense of vengeance despite defeating Vassar already this season. Last year Vassar ended RPI's season, and the senior captains wont want to go out like that in back to back years.

RPI has earned regional and national respect for their consistent play and strong character. They seem to just grind out wins. They will be ready for the semi final especially after losing their last game of the regular season.
Courage has a price, and since both these teams  played a tough non-conference schedule a loss here will mean the end of the road for 2014.

Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2014, 08:56:38 am
I thought Skidmore ended RPI's season last year. I predict RPI will grind out a result somehow. 0-0 in PK's..
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2014, 09:40:00 am
You are correct.  Skidmore it was.

I think RPI will have just enough to  prevail.

Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2014, 11:01:11 am
I will be watching the game at 7pm. I wish RPI would zoom their video stream camera in more so you could see the action better. The way it is now everyone looks like peanuts
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2014, 11:36:16 am
I grudgingly agree with the RPI pick.  RPI has strong senior leadership and experience while Vassar has been relying on youth and exuberance.  Neither team has an explosive forward  and both look to generate offense from the back and midfield.  Vassar's ball movement is better while in the mid and front third RPI is physically stronger.  Vassar's worst results have been playing on turf.  They were demolished by Kean and Stevens.  Their best result on turf was against Skidmore, but in that game Skidmore played the first half without Beek or it likely would have been a different result.  RPI played a great second half in Poughkeepsie after a lackluster first half where they could have easily been down 2-0.  I see this game similarly, RPI holds on in the first half and grinds it out in the second but Vassar's freshmen are impervious to the pressure of the situation as they have 3 years more to play while RPI's seniors are playing to delay the end of their college careers.     
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on November 07, 2014, 10:56:05 am
Big game tomorrow.
I hope both RPI and SLU make good runs in the dance regardless of the outcome.
It is very important to play good competition heading into the dance. Ditto for Cortland and Oneonta.
RPI's fire power is under-rated and they have a free kick specialist wearing the #7 shirt.
This will be a game where SLU's #7 might have to prove his worth and carry the offensive load going forward for this team.
Both squads have good senior leadership who will get the boys up for this one.

Last time these 2 met in a Conference Final in 2010 It was SLU Freshman Andrew Bednarsky who sealed the win with a great goal past RPI Legend GK Penny.
In 2012 Conference Semi Final the tables were turned and it was RPI the home side that got by on Penalties and went on to take the conference crown.

This game could be an instant classic as the above mentioned two were.
Great game for the neutral to watch (Will be webcasted for free on Sandy).
Tough game for us partisans!
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on November 08, 2014, 04:56:26 am
I caught a good bit of both semifinals.  Hobart had clearly improved since their first trip to SLU, but it seemed pretty clear to me that the only way they were going to win the game was through PKs.  RPI blew open an even, deadlocked game in the last 30 minutes with their veterans leading the way.  I think SLU is clearly the better team, but scores have a way of tightening up come tournament time (witness the semifinal with Hobart).  Nevertheless, I think our friend Saint of Old will be breathing easier after a 2-0 SLU victory.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: stlawus on November 08, 2014, 08:46:50 pm
SLU takes their second straight LL Championship with a 1-0 win over RPI.  Good match start to finish.  RPI forced Houston to make a couple great saves, but other than that SLU controlled much of the match.  Held a substantial shot advantage as well as most of the possession.  Superb goal from captain Mark Provost coming off a great run from Austin Roney.  Saints should have home field advantage for the first and second round. 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on November 10, 2014, 02:54:45 pm
UAA-4, Centennial-3, NESCAC-3, etc.....LL-1.  For a second year in a row the committee has dissed the LL.  RPI's throwaway non-conference game before the tournament kills them.  The committee should have viewed that game for what it was.  Rochester gets in with 5 losses including Morrisville State and a Clarkson tie.  I don't get it.  I also don't get the LL awards demonstrating that none of my predictions were right.  Will save that for another post.   
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 10, 2014, 03:07:15 pm
RPI had no regionally ranked wins but I hear you. Dewald and the seniors must be bumming. I do not think the Keene game hurt them but not beating Brockport might have done them in
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on November 10, 2014, 08:30:08 pm
Did the NESCAC deserve two at-large berths and the LL none?
We might soon find out.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 10, 2014, 08:35:30 pm
Had RPI beaten Williams or tied Oneonta and beaten Brockport this would all be for naught but in all honesty Williams dominated them and they were lucky to get a draw. I did not see them against Oneonta or Brockport. When I watched them earlier in the year against Skidmore, I thought Skidmore was the better side and should have won that game. This was not RPI circa 2012. They were just a tad offensively challenged this year
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Golden_Fan on November 10, 2014, 08:58:45 pm
RPI were lucky to tie against brockport as well. I believe they were out shot 18-6 and brockport missed several easy scoring chances
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 10, 2014, 09:01:23 pm
Golden Fan can you give me any assessment you have on Brockport. Key players? style? etc
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: stlawus on November 10, 2014, 10:31:27 pm
Going off what I saw from the game SLU played Brockport, they play an open fast paced game.  Their CF is pretty fast and I remember them trying to release him on lots of runs.  We were unfortunate to lose that game, had 10 players out due to injury and still outshot them.  Mis-kick in OT from the RB and their CF corralled it and took it in uncontested. 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Golden_Fan on November 10, 2014, 10:57:48 pm
They generally play direct but can knock the ball around at times. Their set pieces are key for them as thats how they have scored many of their goals. Their forward #23 is a really good in the air, I believe 8 of his 13 goals have come from headers. Their second leading score #10 has scored from several set pieces and will shoot from distance. They also have several good one vs one players both offensively and defensively. From a defensive stand point they are susceptible to the counter as they push numbers forward and this leads to a very open and fast paced game. Since they have had so many OT games I would assume they are well conditioned. If they can stay organized I think they might be able to make it past the second round for the first time in a while
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on November 11, 2014, 08:11:11 am
Former National Champs.
First ever National Champions.
You cannot sleep on Brockport, if nothing else, they know how to grind out games and play good defense.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2014, 09:47:01 am
are they a big group? average size? speed?  The way you described them it sounds like a great game against Bowdoin with the winner being able to challenge Brandeis
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Golden_Fan on November 11, 2014, 10:10:07 am
from their roster online they have 12 kids 6 ft or over, their main forward is 6'4 and one of their starting defenders is 6'3. They definitely have more size than they did in 2011. I would say they are a pretty quick team and I think they would have to be with their style of play
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Saint of Old on November 11, 2014, 10:17:01 am
They can hurt you.
The SUNYAC I think is a bit more direct than the liberty league (Obviously I am generalizing).
They will play the ball around and have the speed to hurt you as well.
What did not kill them (losing an at-large bid) made them stronger, that is playing 13 games into OT this season.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2014, 10:19:10 am
Yes thanks guys it sounds like they have the style and size to maybe get out of this 4 team pod. We shall see. 7:30pm on Saturday night should be hovering around 32* with wind in Waltham,MA.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Golden_Fan on November 11, 2014, 10:37:13 am
I would agree that they are more direct. I feel that they are less direct in years past though and this year I have seen more teams try to knock the ball around a bit more
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on November 16, 2014, 03:48:47 pm
As the lone LL team in the field, SLU represented the league very well, but, alas, it was not to be.  SLU showed why they are deserving of their strong reputation.  With a constant influx of new talent and a bevy of skilled and athletic players returning, they will be back next year atop the league and, with better luck, a trip deep into the tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on December 12, 2014, 05:57:39 pm
Well for all of you who thought I was out to lunch when I made my LL POY predictions last month as least the NSCAA has vindicated me.  I predicted Copeland as Defensive POY and Beek as Offensive POY and both were named All-Americans today, and deservedly so.  This is not a knock on the actual LL recipients, but Copeland and Beek are a notch above.  As for my other picks, I still believe Andy Jennings at Vassar deserved COY.  Even though Chris Taylor at Clarkson beat him, and Taylor's squad played at a much higher level than in previous years, Vassar obtained the third seed on the backs of four freshman having lost their only returning All-LL player for the year due to injury.  St. Lawrence also had injuries but their depth is phenomenol as shown by the large number of All-LL and All-Region players this year.  Happy Holidays.   
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on December 12, 2014, 06:30:15 pm
well deserved for Beek. I have been a big fan since his days in the preps
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on December 13, 2014, 09:37:50 pm
In Beek and Bakewell, Skidmore has some giant shoes to fill next year.  Okoye appears to be well on his way to becoming the next superstar for the Thoroughbreds.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Mr.Right on December 14, 2014, 05:56:59 pm
Skidmore will stay competitive no doubt but will not have that go to guy to get goals against good teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: deutschfan on August 10, 2015, 02:05:17 pm
With about 10 days until the athletes return to school it is about time to crank up the Liberty League board again.  Although most of the teams haven't posted their newcomers yet some things haven't changed--St. Lawrence looks incredibly strong and Union has the softest non-conference schedule in the league. 
Title: Re: Liberty League 2014
Post by: Ommadawn on August 10, 2015, 06:51:01 pm
With about 10 days until the athletes return to school it is about time to crank up the Liberty League board again.

I was thinking the same thing.  Saint of Old got the thread started at about this time last year.  I'll get one going for this year in a moment.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 14, 2015, 12:23:28 pm
Give me Liberty...

A very tough conference.
Unlike some above, I really don't think the boys from Canton will have an easy season.
Changing a coach after a quarter of a century will have an effect on any program.
New Coach has a more offensive approach, but still likes to play soccer.

Like the Williams boyz, the Saints are lucky enough to have someone at the head who has climbed the ultimate mountain with the team in a different role.

RPI should be good. They are losing two seniors (one who was a leader up top and another from the back) who were all-time greats for their program. Whoever inherits the #7 shirt will have big shoes to fill. A Program that is on the cusp of greatness, similar to Vassar, and has been for a long time. Underclass men will have to step up, but Coach Clinton could have a big year.

Vassar, as mentioned above has been a good team for a while now, but want to take the next step. To do so they will have to outplay RPI. One of the few teams that has proven they can win in Canton when it gets cold.

Hobart has to decide this year if it wants to be a Regional powerhouse, or a mid table team in their conference.
They made a great step making the conference tourney last year after a tough start to the season, but will have to continue that progress with teams like Union and RIT looking to take the playoff spot held by the Statesmen.

RIT is the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde of the Liberty League.
Much will depend on their incoming class, but traditionally a team that can beat anyone in the league on their day, but also could lose to anyone as well. This is an important year to take a step for RIT, the pressure is on to move up from middle of the pack and really contend for one of those 4 playoff spots.

Union like RIT is a dangerous team, this teams biggest problem has been continuing to play well once the conference portion of the schedule comes around. They are close, and made the conference Tourney a couple years ago, but need consistency to get the respect they are due.

Clarkson begins the season with the reigning conference Coach of the Year at the helm. He will have to earn that title this year as Vassar will be looking to avenge a tough 2014 loss to the Knights. Losing to Bard at home last year was perhaps the lowpoint of the year, and life will be a bit tougher at the back after losing arguably the conference's best sweeper.

Rard as stated above shocked Clarkson and the league last year and almost did the same to Hobart. They will be a better team this year as the rebuilding process continues.




Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on August 14, 2015, 03:03:47 pm
I know you're Saint "of Old," but no one plays with "sweepers" anymore . . .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 15, 2015, 06:27:12 pm
Old habits die hard.

I occasionally still make references to "roaming Linkmen" which still makes sense to some of us have-beens :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 24, 2015, 10:42:13 pm
Back to Saint's analysis, I agree that RIT was a Jeckyll & Hyde team last year and that its freshman class might be an indicator of future success.  RIT posted its 2015 roster and it includes 15 freshmen.  It will be tough to acclimate all that new blood into the RIT system and keep everyone interested.  Still waiting on Bard, RPI, Skidmore, Union and Vassar to post their recruiting classes.  RPI and Skidmore do have big shoes to fill.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on August 24, 2015, 11:12:01 pm
Still waiting on Bard, RPI, Skidmore, Union and Vassar to post their recruiting classes.  RPI and Skidmore do have big shoes to fill.   

I saw these new LL recruits listed on one of the Mass boards:

Derrick Acheampong-FC Blazers-Nobles-Hobart & William Smith Colleges*
Pearse Martin-FC Blazers-Boston Latin-Skidmore*
Jason Miller-FC Blazers-Needham HS-Union College*

I only recall having seen the new Union player in action, and he'll be a fine addition to the Dutchmen.  He's relatively small, but he's quick, dynamic, and very skilled.  He can play multiple positions and brings a high level of intensity to the game. 

With respect to Skidmore, my impression last year was that a window of opportunity was closing.  A strong recruiting class can reopen the window, though!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 27, 2015, 07:25:09 pm
http://www.libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2015/8/27/MSOC_0827151658.aspx

Skidmore Underrated.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 28, 2015, 04:57:57 pm
Can't blame the coaches too much for their ranking of Skidmore.  Last year with an all-region and an all-American as strikers they were pegged to finish 2nd and actually finished 5th with a losing league record.  Once burned twice wary.  If you watch the Skidmore 2015 preview video the vibe is not overwhelmingly optimistic.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 29, 2015, 12:44:30 pm
http://www.libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2015/8/27/MSOC_0827151658.aspx

Skidmore Underrated.




Somebody better let the SID at Clarkson know that 7-10-1 was not "one of the most successful season ever" for Clarkson. They made the 1993 NCAA Final 4. They were a bit over matched in the in 1993 but certainly that has to be better than 7-10-1
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 29, 2015, 02:40:14 pm
Mr. Right strikes again with out of conference knowledge.

Same record got Coach of the Year honors last year.

I will say that Bard will give many ppl, including Clarkson a tough time this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on August 29, 2015, 06:02:30 pm
Yeah, I also found that completely bizarre that someone would describe a 7-10-1 season as "one of the most successful season ever" for Clarkson.  Obviously, you have the Final Four run as their best season, but they had plenty of winning seasons in the 80's and 90's.  Just say their best season in over a decade, perhaps.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 31, 2015, 12:09:37 pm
Although some schools still haven't posted rosters, the 4 top ones have and here are my predictions in order of finish for what they are worth.  Given that they are the same four as last year I know I am not going out on a limb here.
1. SLU--Tested quality in every part of the field except keeper.  Copeland who should have been defensive MVP last year holds down the back; Brundell who had a breakout year joins a SLU of midfielders including Chandler Short who should have been the rookie of the year; and Morgan Smith up top.  Besides goalie only question is whether Smith is fully recovered but most of SLU's offense over the past few years has come from the midfield so it probably doesn't matter.  SLU has the blessing and curse of the weakest schedule of the top four--by far.  They will be undefeated and untested going into league.  If they don't win league their schedule will be a major hindrance with the committee.  What happened to the Rochester fixture?
2.  Hobart--What a difference between the team blown out by Brandeis in the first game and taking SLU to the limit in the LL playoffs.  Serafine came into his own at goalie, and the defense will be very strong again.  Like SLU they have great depth in the midfield and Fox is a quality distributor and goal scorer.  Hobart benefits from its German trip giving it a four game head start on the rest of the teams.  It will be amply tested by Rochester before league.  Even though I see Hobart going second into the playoffs unless they find more offense I see the same result as last year in the first round.
3.  Vassar--Of the four teams that made the playoffs last year Vassar was the least likely playing four freshman and starting a recruited defender as its main forward.  Yet, they gave SLU their only blemish, handily beat Hobart and but for a terrible showing in the semis may have gotten to test SLU again.  Vassar loses one starter, the least of any of the top four.  Warner is a capable goalie, Hess is a terrific defender, and Jennings and Palmer will create many goal chances.  Up top unanimous first-teamer Wiechert comes back for a 5th year after a 2014 pre-season injury.  You can look at the posts about Kramer on the NESCAC board as to how 5th year players perform.  If Vassar can generate goals and their fab freshman continue to contribute, they will be back in the playoffs again.
4.  RPI-- I understand all the polls have them as the second strongest team in the Liberty League and they have been on the NCAA cusp two years in a row.  However, they have big shoes to fill in replacing a defensive player of the year goalie and offensive player of the year midfielder.  At goalie it doesn't look like any of DeWald's successors has any game minutes in the goal.  Similarly, no one in the midfield has the experience or productivity of Koziel.  Gunderson had a great year last year at forward and looked all world in the liberty league semis.  Clinton is a great coach and I commend him for putting Oneonta and Williams on his schedule.  This is a rebuilding year for RPI.       
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 31, 2015, 01:52:20 pm
I have to agree with your assessment on RPI. After watching them a couple times last year and the past few seasons. I feel like DeWald and Koziel were the 2 best players on the field for them. Those are 2 huge losses from a team that really can not afford to lose those players. I feel like they will struggle this season to try to get to .500 overall. Since Clinton arrived at RPI they have been a very tough team to break down but have not had pure finishers since their 2008 team which bowed out in the 1st round of the NCAA's to an extremely tough Stevens team. That 2008 matchup between RPI and Stevens was a great NCAA game at Babson and RPI was very skilled and athletic. Recently , they struggle to score against the better teams they play. They looked rather pedestrian in that 2014 Liberty League final against SLU and I would guess without looking at the box score might have had 3 shots all game with none of them serious threats. Oneonta and Williams dominated them last year but they did get a draw at Williams. If Clinton could get a couple recruits from the rich soccer history of the Shenendahowa / Capital region from which his father was the legendary coach / club director / guru they would be able to really compete without having to sit 10 deep against the better teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 02, 2015, 05:20:45 pm
Just want to applaud Union on its big win against Albany College of Pharmacy: 9 goals; 2 goals less than 30 seconds apart; and 8th goal scored in second half by last year's leading scorer who is still inexplicably on the field at 7-0 and still shooting.  Wouldn't it have been more helpful for Union's NCAA chances to schedule Albany for a scrimmage and Oneonta for an early game rather than vice versa? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 02, 2015, 07:57:39 pm
Cant blame the kid for scoring, or wanting to score.
Coach might want to protect his top scorer in a game that has already been won though.
Ask SLU, no fun to lose top scorer in the first game of the year :(


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 03, 2015, 08:55:37 am
Year after year we bash Jeff Guinn for his schedule and year after year it is warranted. Union is first and foremost a Hockey and Football school and they do not care enough about soccer to force him to do anything. It must come from the players and unfortunately the parents.

Just for a reference point the Williams JV team regularly schedules the Albany College of Pharmacy and beats them 5-0 or 6-1.

We also will start to monitor Skidmore's schedule as that is looking weaker and weaker each year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 03, 2015, 09:22:11 am
First game shows a lot about SLU's depth.  Brundell and Short don't play (I take it by Saint's comment that at least one is injured), Smith doesn't start and they still cruise.  I also agree that it is tough to put players on the field and tell them just to pass the ball around when the score reaches 7-0 and it is on the coach when he has first stringers in when a game has gotten out of hand. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 04, 2015, 10:11:59 am
Fan, your observations are accurate.
Up top at least, St. Lawrence has not been this deep since 1999.

Unfortunately, the nasty injury bug that has been around for the last 1/2 dozen years is still there.

Last 3 major stars have suffered agonizing and bad injuries:
Sam Demello/Gorman and now our #10.

The Rowan game this Saturday should tell us a lot about just how deep the squad is.

Meanwhile, in other news, seems like the Entire Liberty League, except Clarkson had a good first day of the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 07, 2015, 09:09:54 pm
I don't want to get a reputation for grousing but...  I was happy to see Bard make an impact this first week especially on offense.  Given the lack of Bard performer of the week honorees over the history of the Liberty League I thought this was the perfect time to anoint their leading scorer for the week who had 4 goals and an assist in 2 games.  He also happens to be the leading scorer in the whole league with most of the the other eligible bachelors having played three games.  Much to my chagrin, but not to my surprise after last year's biggest honors did not go to the best offensive or defensive players in the league but rather to two RPI players who, while quite good, were not All-American caliber players, this week's honor goes to an RPI player with 3 goals and an assist in 3 games who had the 7th best statistics in the Liberty League for the week.  The RPI player would be the third leading scorer on either Bard or Vassar.  The only statistic he has an edge in is game winning goals, the most unpredictable and overrated measure of performance.  In RPI's case it wasn't like they needed last minute heroics, or that the team's only goal in a game came from one player.   RPI won 5-0, 3-0, and 3-0 and it was just dame fortune that determined which goal scorer hit the winning goal.  My pick for offensive performer of the week is a striker from Bard who may not be in the running again for this honor given the overall quality in the Liberty League and the cream puff pre-season schedules some of the teams have put together. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2015, 09:17:13 pm
Good God please...their opponents might be the worst that D3 soccer has to offer. Lyndon State, Sage, Cobleskill and Southern VT...Kinda looks like an out of conference schedule for Middlebury
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 07, 2015, 09:25:14 pm
I wont say much about Offensive or Defensive player of the year in 2014.
I will say that those RPI Boys deserved it. They were the backbone of their programs, and kept their team winning in a tough league.

My quibble is that a certain Coach who retired after 25 years and a Hall of Fame career did not get some votes for COY after winning the league and tourney double in back to back years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2015, 09:28:38 pm
Really.....Who won it? Adam Clinton or Andy Jennings?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 07, 2015, 09:37:51 pm
Chris Taylor at Clarkson.  Nice job for his first year but I have to agree with Saint that Bob Durocher should have been in the mix given what he was able to accomplish with a bunch of injuries and Jennings should have been given injuries and his development of 4 freshman.  Thanks Right for reminding me how weak RPI's first three games were.  I would have mentioned that a Union player also has better stats but I don't count the Albany Pharmacy game. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerfan111 on September 08, 2015, 03:31:05 pm
First game shows a lot about SLU's depth.  Brundell and Short don't play (I take it by Saint's comment that at least one is injured), Smith doesn't start and they still cruise.  I also agree that it is tough to put players on the field and tell them just to pass the ball around when the score reaches 7-0 and it is on the coach when he has first stringers in when a game has gotten out of hand.

I have noticed that there are handful of guys that played significant minutes that haven't played yet this year. Both Short and Brandell are on the roster but haven't played. Are they hurt?

What bout these guys though that started games last year that aren't on the roster? Did they move elsewhere?

Sean Houston
Manny Collins
Seyefe Brouk

Also, what about Seyefe Brouk? He's been a key cog in the middle of the field for the past 3 years but he isn't even listed on the roster.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 08, 2015, 04:03:58 pm
I have noticed that there are handful of guys that played significant minutes that haven't played yet this year. Both Short and Brandell are on the roster but haven't played. Are they hurt?

What bout these guys though that started games last year that aren't on the roster? Did they move elsewhere?

Sean Houston
Manny Collins
Seyefe Brouk

Also, what about Seyefe Brouk? He's been a key cog in the middle of the field for the past 3 years but he isn't even listed on the roster.

Thank you for bringing this up.  I had been meaning to ask Saint of Old about his status, as I thought Brouk had another season left.  He didn't get the accolades that some of his more decorated teammates received (holding center midfielders rarely do!), but I thought that he was one of the unsung heroes of the Saints the past couple of years. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 08, 2015, 09:56:43 pm
Top scorer from last season is hurt unfortunately.
A Benz of a player.

Over the years the injury bug has hit the Saints hard.
Hopefully the freshman class will help.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerfan111 on September 10, 2015, 10:02:27 am
Top scorer from last season is hurt unfortunately.
A Benz of a player.

Over the years the injury bug has hit the Saints hard.
Hopefully the freshman class will help.

So that would mean Brandell is out. What about Short and the other guys (especially Brouk)?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 10, 2015, 11:40:08 am
Many of the Saints have nagging injuries and will not make their debut until later in the year (hopefully). Better not to push anyone back too soon.
As for the holding mid of the last few seasons (One of my all-time favorite Saints), he had a serious injury last year that kept him out for almost half the year. he battled back like a star, but will be taking the year off this season to fully recuperate.
I really hope he comes back and finish his career strong next season.

The team might have a shot back in the 2011 season before being torn apart by injuries, it has been a constant problem since then it seems.

The positive is there is a chance for younger players to stake their claim early in the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on September 10, 2015, 12:23:36 pm
Brouk isn't injured. He can't play for reasons unrelated to soccer. I don't want to explain any further though since it's not for me to share.

SLU is looking good this year but I can't help but think they could have a little bit more of a challenge in the out of conference schedule. No more UofR? It could hurt them later on in the season.

Union always plays cupcakes out of conference which ends up hurting them come LL play and onwards should they make it. Same old story year after year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 10, 2015, 02:05:30 pm
I know wayyy more than you might think Sandy.
What I said was the young man had a bad injury last year, will not play this year, and is a great Saint.
All of which is factual and correct info. Enough said.

Also, it is less important which schools are on the schedule than the competition in the squad.
The toughest battles must take place at practice for any team that has big ambitions.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 10, 2015, 02:22:19 pm
Wasn't the DeMello injury a dirty play from a Union player in 2012? Because I remember when Williams beat St.Lawrence in the NCAA;s in 2012 DeMello was injured. I felt bad for that kid because he was the heart and soul of that team and just a great player to watch. Williams and Trinity CT recruited him HARD but Williams could not get him in, Trinity CT did but DeMello chose St.Lawrence and the rest is history. I believe he from the Western MA area so most figured he would choose to stay close to home just down I-91 in Hartford but it was not to be. He would of elevated Trinity to another level as they got a Pool C in 2011 and would have gone deep IMO that year with him.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on September 10, 2015, 02:53:20 pm
I know wayyy more than you might think Sandy.
What I said was the young man had a bad injury last year, will not play this year, and is a great Saint.
All of which is factual and correct info. Enough said.

****. I was thinking of someone else. You're right.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 10, 2015, 11:16:09 pm
Brouk isn't injured. He can't play for reasons unrelated to soccer. I don't want to explain any further though since it's not for me to share.

SLU is looking good this year but I can't help but think they could have a little bit more of a challenge in the out of conference schedule. No more UofR? It could hurt them later on in the season.

Union always plays cupcakes out of conference which ends up hurting them come LL play and onwards should they make it. Same old story year after year.





I have to agree with you. St.Lawrence schedule is not as challenging as it once was. They are playing more than half the SUNYAC w/o Oneonta St. Curious as to whose decision was to drop the SLU v UR game....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 11, 2015, 12:51:19 pm
Staying on the injury topic for a moment, there have been a rash of injuries at St. Lawrence and many other D3 schools that have suspended or terminated the careers of many top notch players.  The root causes are many but I throw out the following primary ones for debate: 1) General wear and tear sustained from K through high school as the number of practice and game hours before college has gone up dramatically; 2) Lack of formal education of players as to situations that are prime candidates for injuries, especially knee ligaments; 3) Referees who are loath to send off players for serious contact fouls as opposed to dissent or retaliation (years ago refs would pull reds automatically for unclean tackles from behind but no more); 4) Coaches who refuse to penalize players who create dangerous situations in practices or scrimmages; and 5) The increasing competitiveness of D3 soccer where many players now get little actual game time thus increasing their desire to make an impact in practice--these are players who generally have never been on the bench before college making their general level of frustration very high especially first years who have been told they will inherit the earth in the recruiting process.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 11, 2015, 02:20:45 pm
Personally, players today are just "softer" than they were 20 years ago. I understand season ending injuries and concussions but more and more players are missing games for reasons that 20 years ago would of been unheard of.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: WilltheMan on September 11, 2015, 02:31:32 pm
I think the players today move faster, train harder and the collisions are more violent.  I was a pretty fair player, not sure I could move like these young men.  I also agree the late tackling has to stop, that's on the ref's and coaches.  I can remember our coach benching one of our better players for a tackle from behind.  He did it very publicly to diffuse the situation and set an example.  This was at the D1 level.  Good luck with that happening today.  I also think a more limited sub rule would curb some of the "sprint" until you drop tactics that are employed.  Leads to poor play and more injuries.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 11, 2015, 02:49:25 pm
C'mon,

20 years ago you would have guys playing an entire season with torn ACL's
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 11, 2015, 05:24:28 pm
Skidmore down 2-0 with 25' to play against Potsdam despite having more shots and a ton of corners.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 11, 2015, 06:49:57 pm
Players who are all-region or all-American level athletes don't get there by being soft.  I don't believe Doctors, insurance carriers, or the colleges will let students play with torn ACLs or concussions, and this is a good thing.  Some students who aren't getting playing time may exaggerate an injury to justify their inaction but not the top level players that are going down. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 12, 2015, 07:14:14 am
hmmm so every All-American and All-region players are tough kids...I don't think so..Some are for sure but some great players are so skilled it doesn't matter that they are soft. My point is that teams nowadays have 1-2 players on the team who are tough and get banged up and not need a trainer after every game. Those 1-2 players are the behind the scenes GLUE guys that can spark teams with a massive tackle or whatever, usually not the best or most skilled. Kind of like the 4th line in hockey. I have watched for a long time and I am starting to see kids pulling out of tackles, not throwing their bodies around and some are thinking about an "injury" before it happens. I guarantee if you question trainers to compare today to 20 years ago they would tell you they are on the field and locker rooms an hour later each day.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 13, 2015, 10:28:04 pm
Two weeks into the season and what have we learned?  With four unbeaten teams (RPI, SLU, Union, and Bard), the cream (SLU and RPI) has quickly risen to the top along with a pair of teams that may not do quite as well once the league games begin.  Among the five teams with at least one defeat, Hobart's defeat of Rochester and Vassar's tie with Oneonta are noteworthy.  Each of the remaining teams (Skidmore, Clarkson, and RIT) has shown signs of life, so there is every hope that league play will be fiercely competitive.  The third and fourth playoff spots appear to be completely up for grabs!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 14, 2015, 10:05:49 am
Great first two weeks of soccer.
Both the liberty League and SUNYAC are making strong starts.
1-1 ties between SLU-Geneseo and Vassar-Oneonta are signs of great competition.

It will be tough for anyone to break into last seasons Tournament 4 I think.
Which is a shame, because it means two good teams wont have a post season.
If anyone can, it will be 2013 Finalists Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 14, 2015, 01:04:40 pm
That Hobart v Geneseo State game next weekend is looking like a big one come November if Hobart can get a result
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2015, 04:14:55 pm
http://www.saintsathletics.com/sports/2013/9/3/MSOC_0903132907.aspx?path=msoc

SLU v. Much improved Potsdam Bears.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2015, 04:20:57 pm
Thanks for the scoop, Saint!  Just as I tuned in, Potsdam scored on the header off the corner to go up 1-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2015, 04:21:28 pm
http://www.saintsathletics.com/sports/2013/9/3/MSOC_0903132907.aspx?path=msoc

SLU v. Much improved Potsdam Bears.



I know Copeland out, but I have no clue as to why Toshack is resting all of the starters. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 15, 2015, 04:24:01 pm
How about giving some PROPS to SLU ground crew...Year after year the best maintained field anywhere....Potsdam has been an unusual surprise so far..Lets see if the game stays this way
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2015, 05:29:12 pm
Extremely complacent, and dare I say arrogant gameplan by Coach Toshack today.  Pretty evident he expected this game to be a walk over, and is being paid dearly for it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2015, 05:47:28 pm
One of the worst SLU performances I've seen in a long time.  Take nothing away from Potsdam, Coach Parker gave Coach Toshack a much needed reality check.  What on earth does he think he's doing by resting starters against a good Potsdam side.  Arrogant. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2015, 08:53:24 pm
First and foremost, big win for Potsdam.
I knew this would be a challenge for St. Lawrence.
Potsdam is a good team. Coach Parker has turned this program completely around.

A few points that must be given consideration.
1) Several, almost all of the big boyz have had an early loss this season.
2) Although this was Potsdam's first win v. SLU in 10 years, the games are always a bit tricky and/or weird. They scored first against us every single time I played them, and that is going back a while now.
3) I don't see it so much as resting "starters" so much as figuring out who the starters are. To win a National Championship or to compete for one you need atleast 16-18 starters. What better time for a Coach to find out what he has than early in the season.
4) I trust Coach Tosh. He knows what he wants to accomplish and the reasons for his decisions. Personally I would have started a different team, but again, I trust the man.
5) Saint Nation should not be too disappointed, this game was played without all three captains (out injured). Growing pains my friends growing pains, this loss will payoff for the Saints big time!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2015, 09:08:27 pm
If there was a time for them to lose I would rather it have been today anyways.  If I recall correctly Potsdam played Oneonta to overtime last year.  There's a tough stretch of games coming up against Cortland, Buff State and Plattsburgh.  Hopefully today's game was enough of a litmus test to work out the kinks.  I have a feeling a few of those teams are going to park the bus like Potsdam did. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 15, 2015, 11:16:11 pm
I don't want to be too much of a Debbie downer here, but SLU has just tied the 87th ranked team and lost to the 124th ranked team based on the Hero sports rankings.  Whether you view those rankings as credible or not, SLU is underperforming against lesser teams which is a recipe for NCAA selection committee disaster.  Skidmore's two-goal win over Williams puts everyone on notice that the league schedule is going to be a wild ride. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 15, 2015, 11:36:11 pm
The committee does not care about a few blemishes against weaker teams. They care more about your record against better teams(Record v Ranked opponents) which is one thing the committee does right IMO.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 15, 2015, 11:46:26 pm
What if you don't play any better teams?  It is not like SLU followed Brandeis out to Trinity or made a shorter trip to a upper echelon NESCAC school. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 16, 2015, 08:38:04 am
The committee does not care about a few blemishes against weaker teams. They care more about your record against better teams(Record v Ranked opponents) which is one thing the committee does right IMO.

Do they actually not care about a slip up or two? This kind of goes back to my point yesterday with John Carroll, Lycoming and RPI. If this was the case then Dickinson and maybe Rochester or Salisbury wouldn't have gotten in and 2 of these 3 teams would have. RPI lost against the top 25 teams like St. Lawrence(2x) and Oneonta but played a pretty tough schedule. Lycoming beat top 15 Rochester lost to #1 Messiah(2x) and tied another NCAA tournament team on the road. John Carroll had 3 losses in their first 6 games which included 2 tournaments they participated in. Then rallied off 14 wins in a row before losing a heart breaker in their conference final. All 3 had a slip up or two either by a bad loss or maybe a tie that should have been a win. It seems like the committee faulted all 3 of these teams for one slip up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on September 16, 2015, 09:59:16 am
The committee does not care about a few blemishes against weaker teams. They care more about your record against better teams(Record v Ranked opponents) which is one thing the committee does right IMO.

Do they actually not care about a slip up or two? This kind of goes back to my point yesterday with John Carroll, Lycoming and RPI. If this was the case then Dickinson and maybe Rochester or Salisbury wouldn't have gotten in and 2 of these 3 teams would have. RPI lost against the top 25 teams like St. Lawrence(2x) and Oneonta but played a pretty tough schedule. Lycoming beat top 15 Rochester lost to #1 Messiah(2x) and tied another NCAA tournament team on the road. John Carroll had 3 losses in their first 6 games which included 2 tournaments they participated in. Then rallied off 14 wins in a row before losing a heart breaker in their conference final. All 3 had a slip up or two either by a bad loss or maybe a tie that should have been a win. It seems like the committee faulted all 3 of these teams for one slip up.

I largely concur with Mr. Right.  It wasn't the slips ups that cost those teams you list.  The at-large selections can largely be explained by the committee prioritizing SOS and wins vs. ranked teams.  I would contend that losses to ranked teams don't really hurt a team; a lack of wins vs. ranked teams is what does.  It's assumed that teams on the bubble will have some losses to ranked teams, assuming they played ranked teams (if they were beating all their ranked opponents they wouldn't be on the bubble).  The bubble teams that have wins vs. ranked teams and high SOS will get the nod over those that don't.

Rochester had a SOS well over .600 and I believe four wins vs. ranked teams.  Dickinson had a SOS just over .600 and 3 wins vs. ranked teams.  None of the teams left out came close to matching that.  RPI had a decent SOS, but not over .600 and they were winless vs. ranked teams.  Lycoming had a pitiful SOS barely over .500 and only one win vs. ranked teams.  John Carroll had a low SOS and by my count 2 wins vs. ranked teams.  What's not clear is why Salisbury got in with a SOS a little over .550 (higher than JCU and Lyco, lower than RPI) and no wins vs. ranked teams. 

Salisbury may have edged RPI on the basis of 3 ties and one loss vs. ranked teams being better than 3 losses and just one tie, and enough so to compensate for the lower SOS.  The argument for selecting Salisbury over John Carroll is harder to make becuse it's not clear what John Carroll's record vs. ranked teams was considered to be.  Meeting minutes of discussions to revisit and revise the determination of "record vs. ranked opponents" say that Team A's (read John Carroll's) record versus ranked teams dropped from 4-0-0 and 3-1-0 in the published rankings to 0-1-0 in the final unpublished rankings used for at-large selections.  I'm confused by that as I calculate a 2-1-0 record, so I'm not sure if I still don't understand how they are determining this or if the meeting minutes have a typo or the committee goofed, but if indeed they considered John Carroll's record vs. ranked teams to be 0-1-0 in the end, Salisbury, also with zero wins vs. ranked teams, would get the nod on the basis of a higher SOS and three ties vs. ranked teams to none for John Carroll.

All that to say, I firmly believe that it's not the slip-ups that cost those teams as you suggest, but lack of wins vs. ranked teams and moderate to low SOS.  The committee wants tournament teams to regularly play and prove themselves against other top teams, and demonstrate that they can win sometimes.  It's not really about losses as long as there aren't too many of them.

And as to Dickinson's terrible finish to the season, the committee is not tasked with weigthing the final 1/3 or 1/4 of the season greater than the rest of the season.  They may do so as a tie-breaker between teams that on the season as a whole are considered even.  But if one team has a better season-long resume than another team, how they each did down the stretch is irrelavant.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 16, 2015, 11:04:30 am
I understand that and the process and that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification and info on Salisbury! As for Dickinson what quality wins did they have verse ranked opponents as compared to losses? Lost to Messiah and Muhlenberg (2x), tied F&M. Lost to Swarthmore but don't think they were ranked. Only good wins when you look at it were Haverford, Hopkins who was barely .500 (9-7-2 I think?) and Catholic in their opening game. I feel like the committee should consider how you are playing down the stretch just like they do in college basketball. Why reward a team for not winning a game in the last month (literally the last month) of the regular season when you have other teams with better or similar records that are clicking on all cylinders down the stretch?

Sure they may not weigh the finish over the rest of the season but if you are talking about ranked opponents they all came in that last month and they didn't perform. That's my argument. I don't disagree at all with what you said about SOS and all that makes total sense. I just cant get over why it isn't a big picture look at a team. It seems like they only focus on 3 categories which is SOS, record vs ranked opponents, and historical records(bias)/what conference you are in. Do they consider shut-outs or defensive stats? Home vs Away records? Anything like that if you know off the top of your head? I am just curious because I feel like this year there will be a lot of headaches with top teams losing so early. If the trend keeps going then we will have a lot of average records for historically good teams in good conferences and I am interested to see if they get in.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 16, 2015, 11:10:16 am
I still think RPI should have gotten in over Dickinson or Salisbury. Just my opinion. And Lycoming or John Carroll should have been considered more than they were. Thank you for all your info though, it is really helpful and clears up things a bit!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on September 16, 2015, 12:03:17 pm
Mid-Atlantic Fan,

A couple points. 

(1) I am not defending the criteria the selection committee is prescribed to use, nor am I defending their application of that criteria and the selections they make.  I am merely suggesting how the committee most likely arrived at their decisions within the framework of the criteria they are tasked with applying.

You raise some good points and considerations.  I also have a variety of concerns and questions about the criteria and the process.  For just one example, I question whether the committee makes any considerations for the difference in quality of ranked opponents.  We all know there can be a big difference between playing the #1 ranked team in a region as opposed to playing the #8 ranked team in a region, and yet the "record vs. ranked teams" in and of itself can't reflect that.  A team could manage a nice 3-0-1 record vs. ranked opponents having only played teams in the bottom half of the regional rankings (not representative of the avg. tournament opponent past the first round) while another team may have played teams from the top half (representative of tournament opponents) and gone 1-2-1.  But that win and tie may be more indicative of that team's chances in the tournament than the other team's 3 wins and 1 tie.  The "record vs. ranked teams" also can't capture the difference between a close fought 1-goal loss, a loss despite being the "better" team, and a loss where you were outplayed, and likewise for wins and ties.

We don't kow how much the committee does or does not dig deeper than the data they have complied and provided to them.  But their selections often give the impression they learn towards formulaic, quantitative decisions, rather than subjective discernment/judgment. 

(2) http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2014/at-large-analysis-and-predictions  If you haven't already read this annual piece on D3soccer.com, it may be helpful for understanding how things work (even if you do not like the way they work).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 16, 2015, 12:49:29 pm
Mid-Atlantic Fan,

A couple points. 

(1) I am not defending the criteria the selection committee is prescribed to use, nor am I defending their application of that criteria and the selections they make.  I am merely suggesting how the committee most likely arrived at their decisions within the framework of the criteria they are tasked with applying.

You raise some good points and considerations.  I also have a variety of concerns and questions about the criteria and the process.  For just one example, I question whether the committee makes any considerations for the difference in quality of ranked opponents.  We all know there can be a big difference between playing the #1 ranked team in a region as opposed to playing the #8 ranked team in a region, and yet the "record vs. ranked teams" in and of itself can't reflect that.  A team could manage a nice 3-0-1 record vs. ranked opponents having only played teams in the bottom half of the regional rankings (not representative of the avg. tournament opponent past the first round) while another team may have played teams from the top half (representative of tournament opponents) and gone 1-2-1.  But that win and tie may be more indicative of that team's chances in the tournament than the other team's 3 wins and 1 tie.  The "record vs. ranked teams" also can't capture the difference between a close fought 1-goal loss, a loss despite being the "better" team, and a loss where you were outplayed, and likewise for wins and ties.

We don't kow how much the committee does or does not dig deeper than the data they have complied and provided to them.  But their selections often give the impression they learn towards formulaic, quantitative decisions, rather than subjective discernment/judgment. 

(2) http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2014/at-large-analysis-and-predictions  If you haven't already read this annual piece on D3soccer.com, it may be helpful for understanding how things work (even if you do not like the way they work).

Definitely know you weren't defending the criteria that is why I thanked you for your info that you provided. Didn't think I came across as pointing the finger? Sorry if you took it that way. I will check out the link. I don't think I have been on it yet. Thanks!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2015, 01:54:18 pm
Excellent and detailed post by Weasel...+k....I would guess he understands the criteria better than half of the committee. Now we need to push for him to get in that room and start helping to change the system a bit
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on September 16, 2015, 01:56:10 pm
Didn't take it as finger-pointing, Mid-Atlantic Fan.  Just clarifying in case it wasn't clear.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 16, 2015, 02:12:56 pm
Excellent and detailed post by Weasel...+k....I would guess he understands the criteria better than half of the committee. Now we need to push for him to get in that room and start helping to change the system a bit

Agreed. Very knowledgeable!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 16, 2015, 02:13:33 pm
Didn't take it as finger-pointing, Mid-Atlantic Fan.  Just clarifying in case it wasn't clear.

Just making sure! Hard to read people through text sometimes. Just clarifying as well :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 17, 2015, 03:50:43 pm
Did any of you SLU guys catch the Rowan at SLU game? I am trying to get a feel for Rowan this year...Also, how about RPI. Did anyone catch their games with Patterson and Stockton?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on September 17, 2015, 04:26:15 pm
I watched the game online. Rowan didn't play particularly well. It was tied at half but SLU was in control and then went ahead and dominated the rest of the game scoring 4 unanswered. I don't remember them being particularly dangerous either. They might have a few decent half chances though. They hit the crossbar from distance in the first half from outside the box. That was the closest they got though I believe. Their #11 (I think) seemed to be their most dangerous player from what I can recall, which isn't too much.

That's all I can really remember and I may have gotten some of that wrong.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 18, 2015, 01:09:19 pm
Clarkson v. Buff State

This game should tell us a lot about Clarkson.
the league schedule wont be easy, there are 7 legitimate contenders for 4 spots, as I have said since pre-season, I think only Skidmore has the chance of overtaking one of last season's tourney teams... but which one.

SLU v. Cortland

This game should tell us a lot about SLU.
Again, early season injuries has hampered what I think could be a special team.
St. Lawrence rises or falls this year on the strength of its freshman class.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 18, 2015, 01:16:55 pm
What about Hobart? They are quietly taking care of business against some decent competition. I hate the LL tourney as I have been saying for years they should take 6 teams to their conference tournament especially after adding RIT and Bard even though Hamilton left.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 18, 2015, 01:23:01 pm
Mind you I have only seen RPI, Skidmore and SLU on video but my Top 4 are:

SLU
RPI
Hobart
Skidmore

In no particular order. However, I could see one or two of those teams having impressive out of conference records and struggle in conference. I remember Hobart in 2012 or 2011 I cannot remember having a very impressive out of conference resume and record but falling short in conference play and did not even make the conference tournament and subsequently missed out on the NCAA's.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 18, 2015, 01:23:21 pm
As Usual Mr. Right on the ball.

Hobart v. Geneseo  (Tomm @2)

Should tell us about both teams really.
One team (perhaps the winner) will likely dance while the loser might have a tough time depending what happens in the League Tourney.

I think both teams are very similar, trying to get to the top of their respective leagues.
Hobart peaked in '09 and  were considered regional powers atleast.
last few years have not been so kind on them, but making the league playoff last season seems like a sigh of a program once again reaching to new heights.

Totally agree that the League Tournament should be 6 teams.
Really not fair that one of (SLU/Skidmore/Hobart/Vassar/RPI) will be on the outside looking in come November.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 18, 2015, 04:14:45 pm
Days like today show why we are extremely spoiled with the quality of SLU's home broadcasts.  Seems like every away team's broadcast never works. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 18, 2015, 04:30:01 pm
I think SLU's broadcasts are one of the best in D3 along with RPI and Brandeis.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 18, 2015, 05:22:47 pm
I think SLU's broadcasts are one of the best in D3 along with RPI and Brandeis.

I agree. I also enjoy the broadcasts from Wheaton IL, Loras, F&M, Messiah, and WashU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 18, 2015, 05:32:17 pm
SLU has scored 16 goals this season.
14 in the 2nd half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 18, 2015, 06:28:47 pm
Injuries continue to hamper SLU as they draw with Cortland on the road 0-0.  Basically tradition now for the start of the season to be plagued by injuries.  Chandler Short finally comes back but Ryan Grant (leading scorer) simultaneously goes down.  Perhaps scheduling all these games against SUNYAC will be beneficial in the long run, as everyone seems to be quite strong.  Cortland has a vastly improved squad from last year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 19, 2015, 04:58:46 pm
Hobart is back, a necessary win for SLU, Clarkson continues their subpar start to the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on September 19, 2015, 05:21:49 pm
RPI looks legit.  Now up 3-1 over Potsdam.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 19, 2015, 05:34:40 pm
Biggest problem for Potsdam is that no one else will ever underestimate them from here on out.
Burden of being a  good team.

Big difference trying to surprise people as opposed to having a bulls eye on your back.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on September 21, 2015, 09:16:41 am
SLU just needs to figure out how to consistently capitalize on their possession. The defense is, as usual, rock solid.  Need some young players to step up and start scoring more consistently.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 21, 2015, 01:35:05 pm
SLU just needs to figure out how to consistently capitalize on their possession. The defense is, as usual, rock solid.  Need some young players to step up and start scoring more consistently.

Couple players being hurt is not doing them any favors.  Ryan Grant (leading scorer with 6 goals) has been out, and they just got back their #7 who snagged the game winner against Buff State.  The freshman Augustine has 3 goals I think, but it's pretty clear Toshack is experimenting with his lineup before league play starts.  I think we'll see who he wants to consistently go with on Wednesday against a good Plattsburgh squad. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 25, 2015, 12:10:53 am
Excitement is building as league play is set to begin tomorrow with a full slate of games.  Here are a few predictions to get the discussion going:

SLU 3 - RIT 0     It appears that things are starting to come together for the Saints, which bodes poorly for the Tigers on the road.

RPI 3 - Bard 0     Bard is improved over last year, but not enough to hold off RPI, who make take the foot off the gas somewhat and take out the starters early to rest up for Sunday's tilt with Babson.

Skidmore 2 - Clarkson 1     Clarkson will be a tough out this season, but I think the Thoroughbreds will get by at home.

Hobart 2 - Union 1     In what may be the game of the day, the visiting Statesmen might punish Union for their soft early season schedule.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 25, 2015, 12:09:00 pm
RIT always gives SLU a tough game.
St. Lawrence has only scored 3 goals in last five games.
When they do the its the freshmen who score.

I see a 1-0 game either way.

Bard are now good enough to play ragged defense.
2-0 RPI

Hobart is stronger this year I think
2-0 over Union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 25, 2015, 01:13:03 pm
Can someone explain the situation the past few years at RIT...I remember RIT being a very competitive team in the Empire 8 and even when they first got into the Liberty League. All of a sudden the past few years they have really fallen off.

My predictions:    I have only seen SLU, Skidmore, RPI and Union.

SLU v RIT                      5-0
RPI v BARD                    3-0
Skidmore v Clarkson       1-0
Hobart v Union               3-0

SLU, RPI, Hobart, Skidmore and Vassar will be battling it out with only 4 spots available for LL Playoffs my hunch is that Vassar just misses.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 26, 2015, 05:01:27 pm
RPI beat Bard, 1-0. Shots were 14-11, shots on goal were even. They kept their starters in. Down 1-0 Bard had an equalizer disallowed mid-second half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 27, 2015, 06:32:06 pm
Bard will surprise people this year.

Hobart and Union are both still very much in the hunt.

Clarkson running out of time to impress.

SLU will have a tough time getting home field come playoffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 27, 2015, 06:56:09 pm
RPI drew with Babson this afternoon.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 28, 2015, 01:00:45 pm
I believe RPI is a good team, not great but good and they are 1 team that is completely over achieving. 8-0-1 against a solid schedule is commendable but again this team lost 2 of their BEST players from last year and I believe they will be fighting for their lives to get into the top 4 LL play-offs. After watching Union and Hobart I was impressed with Hobart even though they drew Union. SLU is top dog but I believe Hobart, Vassar, Skidmore and RPI will be battling it out for the top 4 spots. If RPI fails to make the top 4 LL Playoffs which is possible not probable but possible it will be interesting to see if they get a Pool C.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 02, 2015, 12:12:39 am
There are lots of great games on tap for this weekend's LL double-headers.  I suspect that there won't be many (any?) games decided by more than a couple of goals.  Here are my predictions:

Friday

Clarkson 1 - Bard 1      Perennial cellar dwellers on the rise!

RPI 2 - Hobart 1     This might be the game of the day. 

Skidmore 2 - RIT 0     Skidmore has built up a head of steam and they'll be at home.

St. Lawrence 2 - Vassar 0     Watch for Augustine to have a big day.

Saturday

St. Lawrence 2 - Bard 0     Fatigue from Friday might help keep the score down.

Vassar 2 - Clarkson 1     Apprentice beat the master last year.  Look for a reversal this time around.

RPI 2 - RIT 0     The Engineers seek to keep their unbeaten streak alive.

Skidmore 2 - Hobart 2     I expect a wild one in Saratoga Springs.  The cards may fly.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 12:49:54 pm
Yes BIG weekend for the Liberty League. Gotta love the back to backs as a fan because the standings move rapidly. However, as a coach this Fri/Sat in league play must drive some nuts. I am guessing but without looking each team does 3 back to backs each year with the 1 game that is solo. That is not to bad but for instance when your opponent on Saturday is playing an improved but still weak Bard on Friday they have a massive advantage against you on Saturday. That would be Clarkson this week. Vassar will have had to battle for 90 or possibly 110 minutes against SLU while Clarkson has an easier game against Bard. To be honest I have not seen Clarkson this year so maybe they are not that much better than Bard but you get my point.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 02, 2015, 12:56:05 pm
Bard beat Clarkson last year, at Clarkson.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 01:29:55 pm
My Liberty League picks...Home team listed 1st.

Fri:

RPI v Hobart-               0-1          This is Hobart's most important week-end of the year because they are playing 2 teams that they will be battling for a Top 4 spot. I feel like Hobart is going to get 2 wins this week-end as I have seen them play once and I feel they are flying under the radar. They have more weapons offensively than RPI and Frosh stud Derrick Acheampong is playing up to his potential. Some Nescac's wanted him bad but could sneak him thru admissions.

Vassar v SLU-              0-0         Vassar gets pumped for this one and is pinned in for a half but sneaks out with a well earned draw.

Bard v Clarkson-          0-1          I have not seen either team this year. If either team wants a sniff of the Top 4 they need to win this game.

Skidmore v RIT-          2-0           Skidmore is well coached and organized. they also have better athletes and skill than RIT whose program has dropped off considerably.

Sat:

RPI v RIT-                  1-0         RPI bounces back and RIT goes home scoreless for the week-end.

Bard v SLU                 0-4         Bard gets blitzed.

Vassar v Clarkson       1-0         Vassar gassed from the day before but prevails in a MUST win for them.

Skidmore v Hobart      0-2        Skidmore always finds a way to put up a stinker or 2 each year. This is one of those games.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 02:39:21 pm
Yes BIG weekend for the Liberty League. Gotta love the back to backs as a fan because the standings move rapidly. However, as a coach this Fri/Sat in league play must drive some nuts. I am guessing but without looking each team does 3 back to backs each year with the 1 game that is solo. That is not to bad but for instance when your opponent on Saturday is playing an improved but still weak Bard on Friday they have a massive advantage against you on Saturday. That would be Clarkson this week. Vassar will have had to battle for 90 or possibly 110 minutes against SLU while Clarkson has an easier game against Bard. To be honest I have not seen Clarkson this year so maybe they are not that much better than Bard but you get my point.



One more point about the LL schedule:

It looks like teams are face with a totally OPEN weekend when not playing in these back to backs.  Like on Saturday Oct 31st RPI is off and Oct 17th Skidmore is off. This is very hard for coaches to find games on Saturday's this late in the season because every other league is in conference play. Nescac kind of does this also and it is very hard for teams that have the BYE in mid to late October to get games. You do what you can but if you are lucky someone will play you on their back to back on a Sunday. If not, you are going all weekend without a game, which IMO can throw teams off a little. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 02, 2015, 02:53:16 pm
Union is the team with the weekend off this week.  They played New Paltz Tuesday (1-0 win), and don't play again until Wednesday night (10/7) at rival RPI.  Union's season will likely depend on that game . . .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 02, 2015, 04:03:01 pm
Wow, lucky goal for Vassar.  SLU defender slipped trying to defend an easy cross leaving a Vassar forward wide open in front of net.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 04:12:14 pm
How is the Vassar feed? I was going to watch the 2nd half of the RPI match because the stream is so good but would rather watch the better game SLU v Vassar as long as the stream is watchable
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 02, 2015, 04:16:43 pm
It's alright, definitely a bit grainy but watchable. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 04:42:34 pm
The Vassar stream is grainy but very watchable...I am certainly not paying $7 for the HD upgrade..That is the first  time I have seen that.

SLU knocking the ball around well in the 10 minutes I have seen. I have not been to Vassar in years but the field looks very well maintained. Looks a touch narrow
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 04:44:34 pm
Vassar with a dangerous free kick just outside the box before the half ends..#8 hits a nice ball just needed more rocket fuel behind it..It kind of whimpered out before reaching the GK
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 02, 2015, 04:48:40 pm
SLU fans.....Where is Williamstown, MA native GK Sean Houston?? He is a tremendous athlete and I thought did a decent job last year filling in for your injured keeper, or was that 2013? Anyway, did he quit? transfer? anyone know?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 02, 2015, 04:56:02 pm
Just not on the team anymore.  I graduated over the summer so I don't know the exact specifics but the new recruiting class brought in a couple of highly touted keepers as well as a new coach so I think that might have had something to do with it.   Toshak just might have just wanted to go in a different direction.  After all he was previously the Portland Timbers keeper coach.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 02, 2015, 05:50:49 pm
Injuries continue to kill SLU
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 02, 2015, 06:03:48 pm
Total domination in 1st OT by Hobart, but they can't finish.  RPI having trouble getting the ball past midfield.

Vassar, Skidmore, and Clarkson have all logged Ws.  Race continues to be wide open.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 03, 2015, 03:42:17 pm
I guess Bard has improved...They are in the 75th minute tied 1-1 wit SLU...Injuries or not this is a game SLU must have
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 03, 2015, 04:22:31 pm
Looks like SLU grabs a much needed Win at Bard in OT...Any report on the game SLU fans?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2015, 04:25:18 pm
Looks like SLU grabs a much needed Win at Bard in OT...Any report on the game SLU fans?


Very chippy game.  Bard player got sent off for his second yellow in the the 2nd OT.  Bard got on the board midway through the 2nd on a nice through ball, but SLU managed the equalizer in the 2nd half from yet another freshman.  Lots of fouls between both teams.  Game winner came off a scramble in front of goal off a cross.  Bard players tried starting a fight right after.  Like I said, chippy game and quite even.  SLU keeper Roethel had to make a breakaway save in the first OT. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 03, 2015, 05:00:56 pm
Really? So Bard has really improved and gotten dirty in the process...Well their Head Coach is a longtime Midd assistant so this does not surprise me one bit. Midd used to play better teams very physical and chippy to get in their heads..Good win for SLU as they get back on track
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2015, 05:04:44 pm
Yea it was an extremely physical game.  Ref took a lot of heat from the Bard side.  I though it was a very solid officiated game, and quite a few Bard players made some very late challenges.  Yes, a very much needed win as the Liberty League appears to be very wide open this year.  The team can only get better at this point, as senior captain Dan Hunt and leading scorer senior Ryan Grant will be coming back from injury. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 03, 2015, 05:43:24 pm
I'm not sure how a St. Lawrence fan can call a double-overtime win at Bard "a good win." Losing at Vassar and being behind in the second half against lowly Bard doesn't make for a very "good" weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2015, 05:48:40 pm
I'm not sure how a St. Lawrence fan can call a double-overtime win at Bard "a good win." Losing at Vassar and being behind in the second half against lowly Bard doesn't make for a very "good" weekend.

Context man, context.  SLU is playing the entire year without their starting defensive midfielder and attacking midfielder.  Aside from that, their leading scorer and senior forward has been hurt, as has our starting senior right back and captain.  Bard is a decent side, and the team is playing away while missing key pieces.  While SLU has been traditionally strong in the LL, every single year they end up squeaking out wins against teams that people think they should beat handily.  At the end of the day, wins are wins no matter how you get them. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 03, 2015, 05:52:01 pm
Everyone has injuries to deal with, though it sounds like St. Lawrence will get a real boost soon. Still, the third-best striker at St. Lawrence is better than any player at Bard.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2015, 05:54:09 pm
Everyone has injuries to deal with, though it sounds like St. Lawrence will get a real boost soon. Still, the third-best striker at St. Lawrence is better than any player at Bard.

Games aren't played on paper.  Gone is the era of teams completely running the table.  You also have to remember SLU has a new coach this year.  Combine injuries, a road trip and a new coach after 25 years of coaching stability under Durocher you're going to have games like this.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 03, 2015, 05:59:02 pm
Agreed. Looks like Hobart had one of those games today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2015, 06:35:08 pm
Red card for RPI midway through the 2nd half against RIT.  Still 0-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2015, 07:03:42 pm
Crazy finish to RPI-RIT.  Talk about league parity.  10 man RPI takes down an RIT forward in the box during OT and RIT converts the penalty to win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 03, 2015, 07:30:52 pm
Great first two weeks of soccer.
Both the liberty League and SUNYAC are making strong starts.
1-1 ties between SLU-Geneseo and Vassar-Oneonta are signs of great competition.

It will be tough for anyone to break into last seasons Tournament 4 I think.
Which is a shame, because it means two good teams wont have a post season.
If anyone can, it will be 2013 Finalists Skidmore.

Skidmore has me feeling like a prophet.

They have one foot in the league tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 04, 2015, 06:07:15 pm
Saint:  Don't pat yourself on the back quite yet.  Last year you were touting Skidmore as well and then they flamed out.  Have to say Skidmore has demonstrated the best defense in the league so far and defense wins championships.  Who would have thought that the biggest game of the League regular season could be next Saturday's fixture between Skidmore and Vassar.  Losses by SLU, RPI and Hobart do not portend well for the league getting more than the automatic qualifier come November.  I am amazed that SLU has gotten to the point when squeaking by last place Bard is a significant win.  Bard has one or two players that could make SLU's roster.  It isn't a matter of injuries at this point, doubt has creeped into the heads of the SLU players, which is far more destructive.  It also didn't help that most of SLU's pre-season schedule was a bunch of lightweights.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 04, 2015, 07:03:58 pm
Saint:  Don't pat yourself on the back quite yet.  Last year you were touting Skidmore as well and then they flamed out.  Have to say Skidmore has demonstrated the best defense in the league so far and defense wins championships.  Who would have thought that the biggest game of the League regular season could be next Saturday's fixture between Skidmore and Vassar.  Losses by SLU, RPI and Hobart do not portend well for the league getting more than the automatic qualifier come November.  I am amazed that SLU has gotten to the point when squeaking by last place Bard is a significant win.  Bard has one or two players that could make SLU's roster.  It isn't a matter of injuries at this point, doubt has creeped into the heads of the SLU players, which is far more destructive.  It also didn't help that most of SLU's pre-season schedule was a bunch of lightweights.

I'm sorry, but injuries are absolutely playing a role.  Could they be playing better?  Definitely, nobody is arguing that.  It's a young, inexperienced squad and you can't expect them to run the table like they have in the past.  However, the playmakers on this team that generate goals are injured and it's clearly contributing.  Also, you're greatly undervaluing the impact that coaching turnover has after Durocher's 25 year tenure.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 04, 2015, 08:35:41 pm
A change in Coach and a slight change in coaching philosophy will no doubt take its toll.

I think the bigger issue is that the new SLU coach has decided for better or worse to build a full squad.

This is good in that come playoff time a coach wants to depend on every one on the roster. @ St. Lawrence this season everyone plays.

A draw back (and you have to live with it) is that there will be a loss or two during the regular season while building a complete team.

As for other teams in the league:

I still like Skidmore. 3-0 with every other team (but Vassar) dropping points, how can you bet against them.

Vassar has a 2-0 start with a reputation of winning important games.

RPI after a great start have to fight hard to get in now.

Clarkson looks to play league spoiler once more.

RIT has bigger intentions than to just play spoiler this year.

Bard will beat a team or two, but who?

Hobart really need a win.

Ditto for Union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 05, 2015, 01:19:31 pm
After watching Skidmore twice this year I will repeat what I have been saying. They are athletic enough to compete with most teams in D3. They are very organized defensively and against top teams when they lose the ball everyone drops immediately. GK is solid. My issue with them is they will have trouble scoring against the best in D3. They do not have a legit striker, like a lot of teams and someone who can finish and win big games for them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 05, 2015, 01:24:31 pm
I am most shocked about Hobart..I thought they were a top team in the Liberty League and just cannot find a way to score goals. 0-1-2 is not going to get it done this year. They need to win out to get in the top 4 IMO.

RPI is also in trouble. After a great Non-conference slate and some great Wins they are going to be battling for their lives to get in the Top 4. No matter what they have done out of conference they will not get a Pool C if they do not get into the LL tournament. It has never happened. In 2011, Hobart had a similar great slate of wins out of conference against solid teams but narrowly missed out on the LL tournament and did not get into the NCAA's. RPI's loss to RIT is a major downer and now they are going to have to not lose another game in conference
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 05, 2015, 01:34:50 pm
Mr. Right:  You are right about RPI and that goes for SLU as well.  If either of those teams takes another loss before the Liberty League Tourney, and it is inevitable that one will unless their head to head is a tie, then another loss in the Liberty League tourney probably dooms them.  Interesting take by Saint on SLU strategy of playing everyone.  If it costs them games then it is an all or nothing proposition.  With their pre-season SOS don't believe the SLU mystique will get them a Pool C bid this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 05, 2015, 01:50:43 pm
I cannot imagine a coach not playing his best 11 against EVERY team. It makes no sense to me at all. One of the SLU supporters mentioned he played a whole different line-up against SUNY Potsdam and lost. This is absolutely ridiculous. Start your best 11 and then get a 1 or 2 goal lead then you use your bench
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 05, 2015, 01:50:59 pm
D-fan, as you suggest, it means nothing to "build a team" if it comes at the cost of missing the conference tournament.  Playing everyone should be reserved for non-conference games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 05, 2015, 06:03:42 pm
I cannot imagine a coach not playing his best 11 against EVERY team. It makes no sense to me at all. One of the SLU supporters mentioned he played a whole different line-up against SUNY Potsdam and lost. This is absolutely ridiculous. Start your best 11 and then get a 1 or 2 goal lead then you use your bench

Agreed.  I can definitely see where he's coming from in trying to experiment with lineups.  However, the backbone of last year's squad is still there so I'm not entirely sure what there is to drastically change.  He's a new coach obviously and wants his own style but things have been working well enough with the core group of guys on the team.  As I've mentioned before, injuries are definitely disrupting things a bit but I'm still confused at the lineup that was fielded against Potsdam.  There's a not so subtle four way rivalry between all 4 schools in the area (SLU, Clarkson, SUNY Canton, SUNY Potsdam) and if anything it would have been important to field the best team to maintain the bragging rights. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 05, 2015, 09:12:30 pm
Ok all you pundits--What are the predictions for the three most compelling Liberty League games this week:  Union v. RPI; Hobart v. St. Lawrence; and Vassar v. Skidmore?  My takes are that even though RPI's 10 game unbeaten streak was total overachievement, they will prevail at Union as it is, incredibly, now a must game for RPI having lost to a bottom third team and RPI will benefit from the rigors of its SOS as opposed to padding stats with Albany Pharmacy.  Crazily, Hobart v. St. Lawrence is a must game for both, but especially for Hobart.  A Hobart loss or tie likely means no post season.  SLU has had Hobart's number for a long time and wants to re-earn national respect so I pick SLU.  In Vassar v. Skidmore  I lean toward Skidmore.  Having watched the Clarkson-Vassar video Saturday it looks like a battle between Skidmore's excellent defense and Vassar's excellent offense, and I usually give the nod to defense.  That being said, Skidmore hasn't beaten Vassar in a long time including all the years Beek was there.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 07, 2015, 12:50:55 pm
Union visits RPI tonight in an important match for both teams that may help answer some of the burning questions such as "Will Union be punished for their weak out-of-conference schedule?" and "Will RPI's fall back to earth after their great start continue?"  I look for the home team to claim a hard-fought 1-0 or 2-0 victory. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 07, 2015, 12:55:17 pm
RPI has scored 2 goals in its last 4 games against not the toughest of competition. Both teams MUST win this game. I say 1-0 RPI but they are on thin ice right now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 07, 2015, 12:56:39 pm
0-0 tie likely.
Which does nothing for either team.

But still better than a loss.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 07, 2015, 01:04:21 pm
You can throw all stats and perceived advantages out the window when these rival schools play each other in any sport.  The U, 1-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 07, 2015, 08:16:32 pm
You can throw all stats and perceived advantages out the window when these rival schools play each other in any sport.  The U, 1-0.



You are correct and Union has impressed me. For the most part they have out possessed RPI and are keeping possession nicely. However, they do not have anything to show for it as they have had few chances. Their midfield looks solid. However RPI has a 1-0 edge at half off a corner.Union's defense fell asleep on that corner. Other than that RPI has not had much else.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 07, 2015, 08:54:38 pm
1-1 Union ties it up and are good enough to beat RPI in my estimation. Union scores on a nice counter off a 60 yard goal kick. With Williams,SLU, SKidmoe and Vassar still left for RPI and the end of this game their season is on thin ice
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 07, 2015, 10:11:15 pm
0-0 tie likely.
Which does nothing for either team.

But still better than a loss.

Got the score line wrong on that one.
Union are actually not as bad off as RPI.
Undefeated in league play after playing two of the best teams in the league.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 08, 2015, 09:36:04 pm
Agreed.  A decent result for Union on the road against the soon to be former top ranked team in the region.  Union still has 6 games left to pick up points.  For RPI a disaster.  Give up the lead at home, and sitting with 5 points after 4 games.  If they replicate the first half there is no way RPI makes the tournament.  With all these ties in the League maybe 12-13 points slips into a fourth spot. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 09, 2015, 06:44:56 pm
RPI has a bye (from LL action) this weekend takes on Williams tomorrow. Otherwise, there is a full slate of action.  Following on deutschfan's picks from earlier in the week, here are a few predictions:

SLU 1 - Hobart 1      Fighting to save their season, Hobart will apply pressure on the Saints and should get on the board.  It might not be enough to earn 3 points.

RIT 2 - Clarkson 1     Empowered by their OT victory over RPI, RIT can enter the playoff hunt in earnest with a win.

Bard 1 - Union 2     It won't be easy, but Union should be able to pull it out at home.

Skidmore 1 - Vassar 1     I expect this one to be nip and tuck all the way.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 10, 2015, 04:01:52 pm
A very physical game going on between Saints and Statesmen at Hobart.

Hobart needs this one bad, as does St. Lawrence.

No one can afford to lose knowing that Skidmore have all but qualified for the Tourney leaving only 3 playoff spots between RIT/Hobart/SLU/Vassar/RPI.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 10, 2015, 04:07:42 pm
Skidmore has cemented its status as the team to beat with its 1-0 victory over Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 10, 2015, 04:20:25 pm
Starting to regret purchasing the one time pass for the Hobart broadcast.  Probably the worst broadcast I have ever seen.  Audio is 5-10 seconds ahead and the stream is continuously choppy.  Looks like I'm watching a 90's CCTV security camera. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 10, 2015, 05:03:04 pm
SLU loses on a PK in overtime.  Time for Toshack and the boys to start panicking.  Playing some pretty awful soccer this year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 10, 2015, 09:11:14 pm
RPI continues to struggle against an under 500 Williams side. Can't get a result even on their home turf. 0-2-3 in their last five games and only scoring two goals; three of those games being at home. Certainly not a top team in the East Region and can also question their Top 25 ranking. Coach Clinton continues to use his spot on the committee to keep his teams spot on the polls. Currently T-6 in the league and only them and St. Lawrence getting attention; another team who is on the rocks. Both teams might have to fight some demons over the week before they meet this weekend with possibly a post-season on the line. Would be nice to not see politics take away from other teams in the region. Good results for Hobart, RIT and Skidmore in other action. Big weekend ahead for a number of Liberty teams, some can put themselves in the top and others can play their way out. Interested to see what the polls look like come Tuesday, but I won't get my hopes up; probably just more of the same.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 10, 2015, 09:12:31 pm
A very physical game going on between Saints and Statesmen at Hobart.

Hobart needs this one bad, as does St. Lawrence.

No one can afford to lose knowing that Skidmore have all but qualified for the Tourney leaving only 3 playoff spots between RIT/Hobart/SLU/Vassar/RPI.

Don't forget the U!  Still haven't lost a league game and have already played RPI and Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 10, 2015, 09:59:52 pm
Christmas comes early in the top two Liberty League games today.  After perhaps one of the worst first halves of soccer in the last five years for SLU they try to make it a game and then the defense gifts a PK and the win to Hobart.  Vassar's keeper lets an easy save on a long distance shot go through his hands and gives the win to Skidmore.  Today's results as noted in an earlier post make it Skidmore and everyone else lumped together except Clarkson and Bard--five teams vying for three spots.  The negatives for the League as a whole with today's results are 1) this is looking again like a one team league for NCAA purposes, and 2) if that team is Skidmore while defensive prowess is nice, Skidmore's offense will not get them past the first NCAA weekend.       
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 10, 2015, 10:12:08 pm
Christmas comes early in the top two Liberty League games today.  After perhaps one of the worst first halves of soccer in the last five years for SLU they try to make it a game and then the defense gifts a PK and the win to Hobart.  Vassar's keeper lets an easy save on a long distance shot go through his hands and gives the win to Skidmore.  Today's results as noted in an earlier post make it Skidmore and everyone else lumped together except Clarkson and Bard--five teams vying for three spots.  The negatives for the League as a whole with today's results are 1) this is looking again like a one team league for NCAA purposes, and 2) if that team is Skidmore while defensive prowess is nice, Skidmore's offense will not get them past the first NCAA weekend.     

So you think that if a team other than St. Lawrence gets the Liberty automatic bid that the Saints won't get an at large? Who knows where they will be but it seems like the St. Lawrence name along with others carry some weight when it comes down picking tournament teams. Hard to think that they wouldn't get one, but they could still get hot at the right time and go on a run. It's the same thing in every conference it seems, top teams getting beat up by each other. Tough decision to make come tournament time when at the moment 6 teams have three losses or less. I believe the only times the league got two teams was when RPI and Vassar won the tournament and St. Lawrence got the second. Some pretty good teams have been snubbed over the last few years out of a bid. Strange what a name carries regardless of record.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 10, 2015, 10:58:03 pm
Yes, that's exactly my call on this.  SLU will have at least 4 losses and 2 ties even if they win out other than a loss in the LL tourney (assuming it is not a pk loss).  Their pre-season schedule was less than compelling (they should have kept UR on the fixture list although UR is not as strong as in prior years) and probably will not have a win against a ranked team other than Plattsburgh (who beat Oneonta today) given the RPI nosedive.  An overtime win against the last place Liberty League team will be viewed negatively as well.  If a 4 loss, 2 tie SLU team gets an at-large under these circumstances the system is broken.  In 2012 SLU received an at-large with 2 losses not including a shoot-out loss in the playoffs.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 10, 2015, 11:10:45 pm
Time will tell. Just unfortunate to see teams having good years not get in and a St. Lawrence gets a bid because they are just known for being a tournament team. Rochester is like that too, getting an at large going 8-4-5 (going on memory here) a year or two ago. I think with the NESCAC down this year it opens up some conferences getting other bids. No way that the 4th NESCAC team is better than the 2nd best Liberty or SUNYAC squad. For that style of soccer, they get too much love.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 11, 2015, 09:33:33 am
First of all SLU will not get get a Pool C this year as it stands right now unless they win out and lose in Final. Nescac is not down this year. Amherst, Tufts, Wes and Conn all have good Pool C chances with Midd another possible one. In the Liberty, Skidmore is the best team right now for a couple reasons and I have stated them more than once. Yes, they are a bit anemic scoring and will not be able to come back from a 2-goal deficit against some of the top teams in the country but they are extremely athletic and organized and have a GK who is very solid. That makes for a good tournament team come November. Comparing Skidmoe and RPI you can see that both teams struggle to score against better competition but the difference is RPI is not as athletic as Skidmore. They sat 7 deep against Williams and frustrated them but still only had 2 VERY good scoring chances. Those %'s are not good. A 4-4-1 Williams side has now beaten a couple of your "top" teams in the East, Oneonta and RPI. Oneonta, with 3 losses cannot afford another slip either as there only real significant win is at MSU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 11, 2015, 09:41:36 am
Actually, SLU at 8-3-2 has more of a shot then I realized because they have 2 wins against teams that will be ranked Rowan and Plattsburgh. If they can beat Skidmore who I also feel will be ranked in 2 weeks then they are starting to produce 3-4 wins v ranked opponents and will have a shot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 11, 2015, 04:51:28 pm
Can understand your loyalty to the NESCAC. Regarding Williams results against "top" East teams, they beat Oneonta early in the year at home. Oneonta certainly wasn't playing the level of soccer they are now as they just got their first blemish after ripping off 6 straight wins. Eventhough their opponents weren't ranked, conference games are always tough in the majority of conferences, including the SUNYAC. I don't think the result would be the same if they met again. They got RPI possibly at their worst during their second half of the season slump. RPI is ranked as a top team in the East because their coach is on the committee who fights to rank his team there. They are a ranked team, but certainly not a "top" team in the East.
St. Lawrence could be in a good position come the end of the season. 3 of 4 left at home, and they only have to travel down the road to Clarkson on the last day. With two regionally ranked teams left to play, arguably a third with Union as they could sneak on the next poll, they control their own finish. Based on their last couple games its hard to predict what those results will be seeing as we don't know which St. Lawrence team will show up on the day.
Based on regional rankings, New England has 3 NESCAC's, #1, #9, #10, with a lot of teams between them that are strong or have very good records. Endicott will be tested for the first time in a while meeting Williams as I am not quite sold on them. In the East, apart from Plattsburgh, Oneonta, Stevens and some would argue for Rochester; the next poll could potentially have 6 Liberty League teams on it if Union sneaks on as they usually do this time of year. There aren't a ton of teams making a statement to get on that ranking. With the Liberty going as it is, besides Bard and Clarkson no team has taken themselves out of the post season question.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 11, 2015, 05:30:15 pm
There have been a number of suggestions that teams have gotten (and could again get) at-large bids on name recognition.  Anyone want to give a specific example?  I can't think of any cases of this over the past 5 to 10 years besides maybe Rochester who was gotten in with some high loss totals.  Salisbury last year was questionable, but Salisbury was questionably left out one year if memory serves.  The committee loves high SOS and wins vs. ranked teams, and their selections reflect this.  There's plenty about the system and process that I do not like (e.g. flawed SOS calc. and over-emphasis on SOS), but I haven't sensed any name-recognition selections.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on October 14, 2015, 10:31:41 am
SLU playing on Sandy will help them. Having a new coach coupled with some untimely injuries to key players is never a good combination to have and yet this is where they find themselves. Hopefully they get their act together for this weekend and close out the regular season strong.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 14, 2015, 10:59:58 am
Very true.
Actually, both SLU and Union are in better position than it seems.

Either way, this game is a must win for the men from Canton!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 14, 2015, 11:49:25 am
Any predictions for the weekend? I believe Skidmore does not have conference games this weekend so that will allow the gap to be narrowed at the top of the table. One of those weekends where two wins could get you into the post season or two losses means better luck next year. Game of the weekend for me is Vassar @ Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 14, 2015, 12:20:48 pm
SLU playing on Sandy will help them. Having a new coach coupled with some untimely injuries to key players is never a good combination to have and yet this is where they find themselves. Hopefully they get their act together for this weekend and close out the regular season strong.


At 8-3-2 SLU is still in control of their own destiny. Try being Williams at 4-4-2 with a new coach and no injuries.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 15, 2015, 11:44:15 pm
Any predictions for the weekend? I believe Skidmore does not have conference games this weekend so that will allow the gap to be narrowed at the top of the table. One of those weekends where two wins could get you into the post season or two losses means better luck next year. Game of the weekend for me is Vassar @ Hobart.

I'll give it a go! Here are my picks:

SLU 2 - RPI 0. The nightmare continues for the Engineers.
Union 2 - Clarkson 1 A big road victory for the Dutchmen.
RIT 1 - Bard 0 The Tigers roar back into contention (sorry).
Hobart 2 - Vassar 0 The Statesmen look to capitalize on their upset of SLU.

SLU 2 - Union 1 It's tough to go against the Saints at home.
RPI 1 - Clarkson 1 Coach Taylor's boys are a tough out.
Hobart 3  - Bard 0 Talent prevails.
RIT 1 - Vassar 0 The home team gets the job done.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 16, 2015, 11:51:05 am
Here goes at least in the games between contenders for playoff spots:
SLU 1 v. RPI 0
Hobart 0 v. Vassar 0
SLU 2 v. Union 1
Vassar 3 v. RIT 1

While my posts have been less than positive about SLU's season to date, this is the weekend they will turn it around against a free-falling RPI team and an over-achieving Union squad.  Hobart v. Vassar is a game between two very hungry teams who each should have had 0-0 results last weekend.  I see Vassar's offense coming out of hibernation against RIT. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 16, 2015, 01:21:45 pm
I will give it a go...Home team listed 1st...Fast Food style
Most teams are halfway thru the schedule so this weekend is MASSIVE


SLU v  RPI----------------0-0   Both teams need this game. The loser could be in trouble. RPI sits deep and will try to counter. RPI's rest of the years schedule is not favorable.
Clarkson v Union---------0-1   Union playing with more confidence and I thought the one game I saw at RPI they looked like a decent side and outplayed RPI.
RIT v Bard ---------------0-0   RIT I have not seen but I think they are lucky to have 2 league wins already.
Hobart v Vassar----------2-1   I say Hobart goes clean on the weekend and puts them in the drivers seat to qualify for LL Tournament.

SLU v Union--------------2-0   
Clarkson v RPI-----------0-1
Hobart v Bard------------2-0
RIT v Vassar-------------0-3




Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 16, 2015, 06:00:02 pm
SLU beats RPI 3-0.  Big win for the Saints.  RPI never looked threatening, 2 shots and only 1 on goal.  All 3 goals coming from freshmen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 17, 2015, 11:56:27 am
I think RPI finally came back down to earth.

SLU and Hobart will battle it out for 2nd / 3rd...Hobart Frosh got ANOTHER goal. He is the real deal.

Skidmore will most likely be hosting.

The 4th team will either be Vassar or Union.

After today's games it will become much clearer
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 17, 2015, 02:49:08 pm
Crazy finish to the first half between SLU and Union.  Scramble in front of the net sees SLU put one in at the very last second of the half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on October 17, 2015, 02:53:10 pm
Looked to maybe be after the horn. I don't care though. Here we go saints.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 17, 2015, 02:54:57 pm
I just went over the replay a few times, it was definitely a goal. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 17, 2015, 05:04:01 pm
SLU with 7 2nd Half goals? Did UNION have a complete meltdown? I noticed a red card on the box
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 17, 2015, 05:07:01 pm
Red card came in the last 5 minutes or so.  Union didn't play the best, but the SLU offense was firing on all cylinders.  Ryan Roethel even notched an assist on a long punt to Charleton Kelly. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 17, 2015, 06:35:17 pm
Bard was up 2-0, at Hobart after 13 minutes. Statesmen won, 3-2.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 18, 2015, 08:44:57 am
Skidmore books ticket without playing.
RIT and SLU with one foot in and are led up top by some dangerous freshmen.
Hobart with inside track on 4th spot.
Vassar and RPI fighting hard but time is running out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 18, 2015, 04:47:48 pm
This weekend shows the contenders and pretenders.  SLU and RIT--contenders.  Union and Vassar--pretenders.  What a difference a couple of weeks can make. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 18, 2015, 05:50:00 pm
I would not count out Union, but they would have to show great character and team spirit to salvage the season and grow from a rough weekend.

Playing on a field as big as Sandy a day after a double over time game.
Game should have perhaps been 0-0 at half and against a deep home team that rested key players.

The fight for spot 4 remains open and
Vassar, RPI, Union will be gunning for the Statesmen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 18, 2015, 07:11:09 pm
Who really wants a bid in the LL?  Skidmore with what seems like a very poor 0-0 draw with Ithaca.  Is everyone just going to step aside for SLU?  Hobart really a serious challenger?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on October 20, 2015, 09:15:02 am
Is everyone just going to step aside for SLU?

Ideally, yes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 20, 2015, 10:01:51 am
Is everyone just going to step aside for SLU?

Ideally, yes.

Haha.  I like that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 20, 2015, 10:19:43 am
I tell you what, the Statesmen are for real.

It would be a shame if the LL does not get atleast 1 at large bid this year.

A few very good teams.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 20, 2015, 12:37:05 pm
Liberty League most certainly deserves 3 teams.

Hobart, Skidmore and SLU...

They will not get 3 teams. The AQ obviously and then possibly 1 Pool C which would either be Skidmore and Hobart who have far better resumes than SLU. If Skidmore beats or even draws with SLU they should be all set.

SLU must get the AQ as their only win v ranked is Plattsburgh and / or beating Skidmore...If that happens than SLU would bump Skidmore
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 20, 2015, 01:06:39 pm
It would be quite a shock to the SLU soccer community were they not to make the dance this year.  I firmly believe that they'll get the results they need, especially at home. Huge game against Skidmore looming this weekend. A SLU victory would put real pressure on Skidmore to win out their remaining fixtures, including an away trip to Union on the last day.

If SLU can steal that #1 seed from Skidmore, I can't see anything but another double for the Saints.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 20, 2015, 01:31:02 pm
I understand your loyalty but SLU does not have the resume unless they BEAT Skidmore. A draw will do them no good. Also, after watching Skidmore 3 times this year you can bet they will be up for this game. They are athletic and well coached. When they lose the ball all 10 players DROP immediately....I wouldn't be surprised to see a 0-0 Draw.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 20, 2015, 03:11:03 pm
SLU did beat Rowan this year.  While they weren't ranked when they beat them Rown was ranked team for a few weeks after.  I'm not sure if the committee takes that into account though. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 20, 2015, 03:28:59 pm
It would only matter if Rowan is regionally ranked come tomorrow or more importantly in 2 weeks. IMO Rowan will not be ranked unless they can beat Kean. SLU is partially to blame for their own scheduling debacle. Had they had U of Rochester and Oneonta St on their schedule there 8-3-2 record with a game v Skidmore would look much better to the committee.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 21, 2015, 07:34:57 pm
Rochester chose not to renew the agreement this year, not SLU. Rochester wasn't a fan of playing Friday-Saturday, as UAA usually plays Friday-Sunday.

Agreed, SLU needs to beat Skidmore this weekend, especially at home. They're lucky to have their fate in their own hands at this point with 3 losses already on the books. Win out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 21, 2015, 09:28:17 pm
Thrilling finish to RPI-Skidmore.  RPI scores the game winner with 15 seconds left in the second OT. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 22, 2015, 01:48:46 pm
Game felt like Skidmore sat back for the tie (which would probably be enough for them to clinch.

Now they must face ST. Lawrence and a hungry Vassar coming up.

I cannot recall a time when the league was so tight.

Only Clarkson and Bard are done.
Union still has life and a game in hand.
RPI needed that win last night to still have some hope.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter McGavin on October 22, 2015, 02:44:52 pm
Liberty League most certainly deserves 3 teams.

Hobart, Skidmore and SLU...

They will not get 3 teams. The AQ obviously and then possibly 1 Pool C which would either be Skidmore and Hobart who have far better resumes than SLU. If Skidmore beats or even draws with SLU they should be all set.

SLU must get the AQ as their only win v ranked is Plattsburgh and / or beating Skidmore...If that happens than SLU would bump Skidmore

Skidmore isn't good....9-3-1? Come on Mr. Right you know better than this. They are probably the 4th best team in the LL. This league will get 2. Shouldn't get any more.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 22, 2015, 03:01:22 pm
The Skidmore loss last night opens the door for SLU to win out, win the regular season, and host the postseason tournament as the #1 seed.  Skidmore faces Bard not Vassar (Skidmore beat Vassar 1-0), but that will be inconsequential if the Saints do what they are capable of doing.  Over a full season, the superior talent and depth of SLU has allowed the cream to rise to the top as they have adjusted to Coach Toshack.  From what I have seen, only Hobart has the quality and depth to stay with SLU.  Of course, anything can happen in a one-game, winner-take-all final situation!  Here's my breakdown of the contenders:

SLU --  I expect the Saints to win out and end up with 18 points

Hobart  --  I expect the Statesmen to win out and end up with 17 points

Skidmore  --  I expect the Thoroughbreds to lose to SLU, win against Bard, and tie Union to end up with 16 points

RPI -- I expect the Engineers to beat Vassar and end up with 14 points

RIT -- I expect the Tigers to lose to Hobart and tie Union to end up with 13 points

Union -- I expect the Dutchmen to tie RIT, beat Vassar, and tie Skidmore to end up with 11 points

Vassar  --  I expect the Brewers to lose to RPI, lose to Union, and beat Bard to end up with 9 points
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2015, 03:03:40 pm
I have seen Skidmore numerous times and to say they are not good is a JOKE....They are very athletic and well coached. They are organized and drop very deep after losing the ball. They are a bit anemic offensively but they have some great athletes that can get the job done. I have said this numerous times but I will repeat it because you are most likely to lazy to read prior posts. Skidmore can hold its own against the best of D3 but they would not be able to score goals against them...Now if they had Beek this year they would be a Top 15 team in the Nation. The problem with Beek was he would only show up for the "big" games and disappear for the others....ANYWAY
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2015, 03:04:39 pm
SLU better get the AQ because they are not going to get a Pool C...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter McGavin on October 22, 2015, 03:09:59 pm
I have seen Skidmore numerous times and to say they are not good is a JOKE....They are very athletic and well coached. They are organized and drop very deep after losing the ball. They are a bit anemic offensively but they have some great athletes that can get the job done. I have said this numerous times but I will repeat it because you are most likely to lazy to read prior posts. Skidmore can hold its own against the best of D3 but they would not be able to score goals against them...Now if they had Beek this year they would be a Top 15 team in the Nation. The problem with Beek was he would only show up for the "big" games and disappear for the others....ANYWAY

Not lazy. Just new to the boards. That's just like saying if Messiah had their whole team from last year that they would be really good instead of just good this year. A lot of teams could be better if they had a player or two from previous years...holding their own and having a chance to win are two different things.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2015, 03:42:10 pm
Skidmore and Messiah are 2 different animals....I said Skidmore can hold their own this year BUT if they happened to have BEEK this year they would be a FORCE this year...Never did I mention Messiah
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on October 22, 2015, 05:58:36 pm
Ehh, I wasn't particularly impressed with Skidmore after watching the game last night. RPI was pretty even with them and probably created more quality scoring chances as well. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt though since they played at home on their awful turf field. The ball was bouncing around everywhere. Last night's game was very much a kick and run type off affair probably due to the conditions.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 23, 2015, 09:38:57 am
Saw that Skidmore loss coming from a mile away. A SLU win at home and taking care of Clarkson gives them home field through the postseason, which has traditionally worked out pretty well for them.  Going to be an exciting last week of competition! Would love to see a Hobart-SLU title game...not quite sure how that hasn't happened yet
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 23, 2015, 12:39:38 pm
Saw that Skidmore loss coming from a mile away. A SLU win at home and taking care of Clarkson gives them home field through the postseason, which has traditionally worked out pretty well for them.  Going to be an exciting last week of competition! Would love to see a Hobart-SLU title game...not quite sure how that hasn't happened yet

Hobart hasn't been good enough when they have needed to be. Another team in the league that struggles to consistently find goals. Could be their downfall again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 23, 2015, 01:43:21 pm
I was shocked to see RPI beat Skidmore...I thought Skidmore to be a better team but hey stuff happens....RPI is still in major trouble for qualifying for the LL tournament....Hobart has been my sleeper team all year as they are a bit anemic but they are physical and the Frosh Derrick Acheampong is the real deal...A couple Nescac's wanted him but could not get him thru admissions. He can score big goals for Hobart even as a frosh and they will be a very tough out come tournament time and I believe they are a NCAA team.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 23, 2015, 05:29:09 pm
Not surprised Skidmore lost to RPI.
RPI needed the game or their season was over, Skidmore did not.

Big game tomorrow between SLU and Skidmore.

I wont predict an outcome, but I will say that the Saints are looking as fresh as I have seen them at this point in the season for a long time.

Coach Tosh knew that by building a deep squad throughout the year might cost a game or 2 but  it was all done for this very stage.

A great Coach told me in the 1990s that a team is only as strong as its weakest link.
That has always stayed with me.
I think that the teams who will compete for a championship are the ones with 18-20 players not 11-13.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 23, 2015, 05:35:20 pm
I have no ties to Skidmore at all but I am surprised by how many Skidmore "haters" there are out there....Last time I checked they were in 1st Place with a game in hand....I still say they somehow get a draw or possibly a win at SLU tomorrow...Unless they have serious injuries that I do not know about up and down their spine.....They can deal with injuries to their flank players but not the athletes up and down the spine....Skidmore is not deep at all, as they might go 13-15 deep but they play with heart.....I just have a hunch is all, Igot the Geneseo upset predicted right today over Plattsburgh and I will get the Skidmore upset tomorrow....Also,  how can you say Skidmore has nothing to play for v RPI...They had just as much on the line...A win would of given them 5 League wins with a game in hand....You don't think home field on that crap turf means anything to them???
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on October 23, 2015, 05:49:02 pm
I'm not a hater. I'm just biased.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 24, 2015, 04:32:23 pm
Well I was close, I still got my 2 Plattsburgh losses prediction right and Skidmore had held SLU 0-0 into the 60th minute but....SLU goes up 1-0


Vassar defeats RPI 2-1
Union defeats RIT  1-0
Hobart leads Clarkson 1-0 25 minutes left
SLU leads Skidmore 1-0 25 minutes left


So...

Top 4 are SLU, Skidmore, Hobart and either Vassar or Union who play mid-week...

Very Interesting...

RPI who is 10-4-3 and had such a great start to the season was frankly overachieving all year and they are eliminated from postseason play.

East Rankings this week will be interesting with records v Ranked taken into affect I just do not see how Hobart and SLU are not #1 and #3. Oneonta #2...Stevens(still un-impressed with their resume) will be #4 or #5 and I suppose Platttsburgh will drop to #5 or #6..Cortland must drop out completely and Brockport is my new #6.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 24, 2015, 04:57:11 pm
Another big win for the Saints.  The freshmen continue to make their mark.  I admit I was skeptical of Toshack's approach early in the year but his plan is now in full fruition. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 24, 2015, 05:04:16 pm
Toshack had always planned to build a solid unit of 18-22 players.
I must admit, having played for him, I am a bit biased, but I think his tweaks have benefitted the team this year.
Still a possession team, but now a bit more threat.

Credit to Durocher for leaving him with the best recruited class in a decade.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerfan111 on October 26, 2015, 11:34:18 am
Imagine this team if they had Seyefe Brouk and Rob Brandell still. Those are 2 guys that could have went along way.

Any news on R Grant and if he'll be back this year? If they could get him back, that would give them another Senior for the late run (would mean 6 SR starters on the field). That experience could go along way come NCAAs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 26, 2015, 11:45:39 am
Grant will be back.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 26, 2015, 02:29:34 pm
Injury bug has been brutal for SLU over the past few years:

2011 - Lost entire starting front 3, including an All-American. Still managed to go unblemished through the regular season and make the Sweet 16
2012 - Lost DeMello 3/4 through the season, didn't have him in the LL playoffs or NCAAs
2014 - Lost Morgan Smith who had been leading the team in goals to that point
2015 - Brandell breaks his leg in preseason

Hopefully the rest of the squad can stay healthy! I think those teams could have gone a lot further had injuries not plagued them. Then again, that can happen to anybody.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2015, 03:38:50 pm
So all you SLU supporters out there can perhaps pipe in on this.  Now that RPI is RIP, which has to be vexing them given their incredible start and expectations, it looks like the Union/Vassar contest will decide the 4th seed, no disrespect to RIT, but I don't see RIT getting past Hobart.  Hobart is playing too well now.  In any event, who would you rather see SLU play at home in the first round?  The answer is not that obvious to me as Union will have total revenge on their minds after an 8 goal shellacking and SLU will want to avenge its only league loss.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 26, 2015, 04:03:02 pm
As a non-SLU supporter I can say they would rather see Union....An 8-0 thrashing is no easy feat and I can assure you that when Union gets off the bus and onto the field they will have that in their heads...Almost like Union would expect to lose. That is a total guess but I have seen this time and time again.

Also, I believe Vassar has beaten or beaten SLU in PK's before and Vassar beat them this year.So I do not think SLU would want to face them and believe me that SLU is on the "bubble" right now and cannot afford a Semi-Final loss at all.

Also, I would not count out RIT all together. Hobart is the stronger side but Hobart does not have much to play for as they have already qualified and I believe cannot host. RIT will be battling for THEIR LIVES..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2015, 04:21:41 pm
I agree with your SLU NCAA assessment.  If they lose a semi-final LL contest at home they will not get a bid.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 26, 2015, 06:56:22 pm
Pretty sure that Hobart has to win (or at least tie) to be certain of a playoff spot.
And, pretty sure that Hobart fans are rooting for Skidmore to get no more than four points from their final two games.
That would allow Hobart home field advantage and likely a rematch with Skidmore.
Seems like that is lots to play for?

Vassar likely needs all six points and then will travel SLU for what is likely to be a great match.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 27, 2015, 12:31:47 pm
SLU will not lose to Clarkson....When was the last time that has happened???   

So SLU will host no matter what. Hobart will be heading up to Canton,NY no matter what. Also, I said Hobart is the better team but RIT is fighting for their lives so they MUST WIN. Hobart will either be the #2 or #3 seed which has no importance whatsoever except for taking the home teams bench and home fields scoreboard side. Those are not biggies to be playing for. NOW if Hobart moves up the Regional Rankings tomorrow to say #4 or #5 then they HAVE A LEGIT SHOT AT AN AT LARGE which will make that RIT game and the semi-final game MUST WINS.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 27, 2015, 02:39:17 pm
SLU will not lose to Clarkson....When was the last time that has happened???   

So SLU will host no matter what. Hobart will be heading up to Canton,NY no matter what. Also, I said Hobart is the better team but RIT is fighting for their lives so they MUST WIN. Hobart will either be the #2 or #3 seed which has no importance whatsoever except for taking the home teams bench and home fields scoreboard side. Those are not biggies to be playing for. NOW if Hobart moves up the Regional Rankings tomorrow to say #4 or #5 then they HAVE A LEGIT SHOT AT AN AT LARGE which will make that RIT game and the semi-final game MUST WINS.

The last time Clarkson beat SLU was 1993
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 27, 2015, 03:56:23 pm
SLU will not lose to Clarkson....When was the last time that has happened???   

So SLU will host no matter what. Hobart will be heading up to Canton,NY no matter what. Also, I said Hobart is the better team but RIT is fighting for their lives so they MUST WIN. Hobart will either be the #2 or #3 seed which has no importance whatsoever except for taking the home teams bench and home fields scoreboard side. Those are not biggies to be playing for. NOW if Hobart moves up the Regional Rankings tomorrow to say #4 or #5 then they HAVE A LEGIT SHOT AT AN AT LARGE which will make that RIT game and the semi-final game MUST WINS.

The last time Clarkson beat SLU was 1993

Am I am proud to say that I was at that game in 1993 watching my brother as a freshman starter on that Final Four Clarkson team.  For some reason the name Manny Brito sticks in my head as a player my brother was asked to man-mark in that game.  That was before they had the magnificent MacAllaster field at St. Lawrence.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 27, 2015, 04:36:05 pm
Brito was a freshman that year as well, but your brother must have been a good defender considering Brito remains 4th on the all time points list for SLU soccer. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 27, 2015, 08:57:29 pm
Bard 2, Skidmore 1 - Final
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 27, 2015, 09:52:26 pm
Congrats to Andy McCabe and Bard Soccer!  And, now an even more intriguing last two games for Union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 28, 2015, 09:56:24 am
Brito was a freshman that year as well, but your brother must have been a good defender considering Brito remains 4th on the all time points list for SLU soccer.

And the West African also holds the single season scoring record (16)set his set his senior year in 1996.

Talk about true Saints of Old!

Mid to late 1990s were some great rivalry games between SLU and Clarkson.
Both were yearly  NCAA participants.
1998 Sweet 16 game was also a classic!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 28, 2015, 10:30:57 am
Bard 2, Skidmore 1 - Final

Bard are deserving of COY.

Led St. Lawrence late
Led Hobart by 2 goals
Led Clarkson late
Lost 1-0 to RPI when RPI was red hot.
Beat a hungry and desperate Skidmore.

Watch out for this team.

This means there are no easy games in the Liberty League from here on out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 28, 2015, 11:21:28 am
Your right.  All the rest of the games have potential playoff implications. With Skidmore, the unthinkable has become a real possibility--missing the LL playoffs.  Whether they were a viable Pool C candidate before last night, they certainly aren't now.  Even Bard is playing for a spot in the ECAC tourney.  Crazy year.  Unfortunately only two teams have any shot at an NCAA bid unless a dark horse wins the playoffs, SLU and Hobart, and neither of those teams can afford not to make the finals. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 28, 2015, 12:28:21 pm
Bard 2, Skidmore 1 - Final

Bard are deserving of COY.

Led St. Lawrence late
Led Hobart by 2 goals
Led Clarkson late
Lost 1-0 to RPI when RPI was red hot.
Beat a hungry and desperate Skidmore.

Watch out for this team.

This means there are no easy games in the Liberty League from here on out.

Agreed on COY for Bard
Will be great to watch the LL going forward -- as a fan -- and to participate -- as a player!
Curious to see how the LL coaches respond to this relative to other games on their schedule.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 28, 2015, 03:22:22 pm
So riddle me this--RPI loses at home to Vassar, is eliminated from LL postseason contention, and moves up from 7th to 4th in the second regional rankings with Hobart no where to be found?????
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 28, 2015, 05:40:25 pm
So riddle me this--RPI loses at home to Vassar, is eliminated from LL postseason contention, and moves up from 7th to 4th in the second regional rankings with Hobart no where to be found?????

Baffling.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 28, 2015, 06:13:08 pm

Frustrating for the Statesmen, indeed.

Hobart beat Clarkson, a sub .400 team with a strong SOS. 
RPI has a good win/loss record, even in the loss to Vassar. Plus, Vassar has a .579 win record and an SOS similar to Clarkson.
But, it appears RPI nudges out Hobart this week (my quick, back of the envelope assessment is that Hobart is 8th in East).
The top SUNYAC schools all played each other this past week, so winners went up lots, and losers went up some, in the East region rankings -- especially relative to Hobart.

RPI's last game v. Keene will not improve their position all that much, but Hobart v. RIT outcome will help Hobart (IF they win) as RIT's SOS is high and their win/loss record is better.

Hobart has been in a seven game "win or be done at end of regular season" playoff race since the OT loss to Skidmore -- any loss removes them from playoff contention. They beat Fredonia on 27 Oct (easily, after Fredonia self-destructed with kids kicking players and getting ejected, ugly and sad) and will need to win their final game against RIT this Saturday.

Then, Hobart will need to be in LL final to have a chance at a pool "C" bid to NCAA's (but at this point it looks like they will ALSO need Stevens and Oneonta to win, and either Plattsburgh or Cortland to fade out this week to have that chance).
In writing this I'm thinking the final opponent is likely to be St. Lawrence. I also am thinking its hard for any team in the LL to beat the same opponent twice in one season, and then add to this that (a) STLU likely feels that the PK in OT loss to Hobart was unjust and (b) the game will be played in Canton!

Worth noting that Hobart have been winning and dropping in the Hero Sports ranking, too.

Hobart needs to keep winning: simple to say and hard to do.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 28, 2015, 06:27:01 pm
Stevens always wins the Empire 8 which could be a bad thing this year. This is the 1st year where I have noticed Stevens quietly dropping game or 2 which has not happened since they joined. Stevens has enough good wins with another one today over MIT that will get them a Pool C. SLU and Brockport with 3 ranked wins look good also. I do understand the Cortland ranking or for that matter the RPI one but neither will matter. Neither team will get an at-large for various reasons. Hobart is a legit team as is Skidmore. Either team could win the LL even up at SLU.  Not sure the tiebreakers in LL but Skidmore beat Vassar and RIT and if they beat Union they will be in.


Both Hobart and Skidmore killed their SOS with wins over Nazareth...Plain and simple the system needs to be changed on the bottom end...Hobart and Skidmore had some VERY good wins that should outweigh ONE game on your schedule with a 1-13-0 Nazareth side
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter McGavin on October 29, 2015, 08:26:19 am
Stevens always wins the Empire 8 which could be a bad thing this year. This is the 1st year where I have noticed Stevens quietly dropping game or 2 which has not happened since they joined. Stevens has enough good wins with another one today over MIT that will get them a Pool C. SLU and Brockport with 3 ranked wins look good also. I do understand the Cortland ranking or for that matter the RPI one but neither will matter. Neither team will get an at-large for various reasons. Hobart is a legit team as is Skidmore. Either team could win the LL even up at SLU.  Not sure the tiebreakers in LL but Skidmore beat Vassar and RIT and if they beat Union they will be in.


Both Hobart and Skidmore killed their SOS with wins over Nazareth...Plain and simple the system needs to be changed on the bottom end...Hobart and Skidmore had some VERY good wins that should outweigh ONE game on your schedule with a 1-13-0 Nazareth side

I am not saying this to be funny like before but Skidmore is 9-5-1 and on a 3 game losing streak and 0-3-1 in their last 4 games...they have no shot at an at-large bid and will be lucky to make conference playoffs at this point. LL is a top 4 league correct? I would say Skid has the better chance compared to RIT but anything could happen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2015, 09:52:39 am
I did not say they had ANY shot at an at large bid , what I said was they have a chance to beat SLU as does Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 29, 2015, 10:04:46 am
Anyone can beat anyone at anytime in soccer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 29, 2015, 02:41:12 pm
Anyone can beat anyone at anytime in soccer.

With this truism as header and warning:
Union over Vassar tonight, 1-0

Bard over Vassar Saturday, 2-1 (I am riding, if not driving, the Bard fan wagon for this end-of-season).
Skidmore over Union Saturday (may not be the prettiest of soccer games, but it will be intense), 2-0
Both Vassar and Union struggle with short turnaround from tonight's game, alas.

Hobart over RIT, 2-0 (the second goal is a result of RIT throwing people forward to create a result)
STLU over Clarkson (no guess on score but suspect both teams play their full bench)

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 29, 2015, 02:57:18 pm
With this truism as header and warning:
Union over Vassar tonight, 1-0

Bard over Vassar Saturday, 2-1 (I am riding, if not driving, the Bard fan wagon for this end-of-season).
Skidmore over Union Saturday (may not be the prettiest of soccer games, but it will be intense), 2-0
Both Vassar and Union struggle with short turnaround from tonight's game, alas.

Hobart over RIT, 2-0 (the second goal is a result of RIT throwing people forward to create a result)
STLU over Clarkson (no guess on score but suspect both teams play their full bench)

I cannot argue with any of your predictions.  It's great to see so many teams still in playoff contention coming down to the final couple of days of the regular season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 29, 2015, 03:12:07 pm
So riddle me this--RPI loses at home to Vassar, is eliminated from LL postseason contention, and moves up from 7th to 4th in the second regional rankings with Hobart no where to be found?????

Just goes to show how politics influence rankings. Happens every year, the people who set the rankings are coaches who have their very own teams in given regions. Last year it was Clinton at RPI on the NSCAA Regional committee; where we all saw that they missed out on an at large bid last year but they were only ranked that high due to his position on the committee. Putting his team higher on the regional ranking makes sure that they will be ranked nationally. Which was why everyone didn't know why a #15 team in the nation wasn't in the tournament. He is the only one to blame for that.

We are starting to see it this year, however, I believe Coach Clinton has moved from the NSCAA rep to the NCAA. That is why RPI is on that list instead of a Hobart, which doesn't seem right at all. Yes, Hobart plays Nazareth, St. John Fisher and Fredonia, which all hurt their SOS; but RPI has Lyndon State, Mount St. Mary and Keene St., all with bad records.

IMO coaches on those committees, whatever the region is, should be ranking schools outside of their own region. I am only referencing the East Region but I'm sure it happens in New England where all the NESCAC schools get put on the rankings this time of year. It seems like things are a little over complicated, if you lose to a less ranked opponent, you move down, simple as that. You also can't punish teams as much for scheduling games against decent teams the year before, all to have them have a terrible season the year that you play them. Every good team plays their share of weaker opponents. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2015, 05:22:27 pm
I get what you all are saying but RPI is ranked because of their SOS which is one of the highest in the region and 2-1-1 v ranked. If they had not played Lyndon State, Mt State Mary and Williams Patterson they would have a SOS at .615. I agree Hobart is a better side then RPI but there SOS at .530 is just not going to get it done and like I said before it is unfortunate that beating Nazareth and Fredonia St actually keeps you from being ranked. THEY must change this bottom end stuff and not punish wins v teams with horrible records as much as it happens. It will never happen but I like the "Bart" to win the LL anyway. Now if SLU loses in the semi-final of the LL they SHOULD become a bubble team but with a 3-1-1 RvR and .575 or so SOS they most likely will get in. The 3 wins v Ranked especially in the East is very hard to ignore
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 30, 2015, 11:10:55 am
Have not seen the league like this in quite a while.
Bard deserves a lot of credit for playing hard and improving as a team.

Union is for real.
They have only lost once in the league.
That loss was not as lopsided as one may think.
After 45 mins it was 0-0 on SLU's home field.
A last second goal was extremely demoralizing to a team on the road that had just played an overtime game the day before...

RIT has to do it this year, they just have to.
Is their freshman stud up to the task?

Will SLU's freshman class continue to impress when the real season starts.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 30, 2015, 11:57:31 am
Jason Miller-FC Blazers-Needham HS-Union College*

I only recall having seen the new Union player in action, and he'll be a fine addition to the Dutchmen.  He's relatively small, but he's quick, dynamic, and very skilled.  He can play multiple positions and brings a high level of intensity to the game. 

It took nearly all season for this freshman to have a major impact, but he got the game winner in the 106th minute last night against Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 30, 2015, 12:11:48 pm
And then there were five...

SLU has clinched a playoff berth and can get the top seed with a win or a tie coupled with a Hobart loss.

Hobart can get the top seed with a win coupled with a SLU loss, can get the second seed or third seed with any number of potential game outcomes, and will be the fourth seed with a loss coupled with a Skidmore or Union win.

RIT can be seeded as high as second with a win and will be eliminated with a loss or tie.

Union and Skidmore are in with a win and out with a loss. One of them will advance with a tie coupled with a Hobart loss, but I'm not sure which one (I don't know the tie-breakers).  Both will advance with a tie coupled with a Hobart win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 30, 2015, 12:18:11 pm
Correction:  Union and Skidmore can both also get in with a loss coupled with an RIT loss.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 30, 2015, 12:30:30 pm
Second correction (sorry!): RIT will be in with a tie and a non-tie outcome in the Skidmore-Union game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 30, 2015, 12:33:54 pm
Union's been a great counter-attacking team: well organized behind the ball.  On their smallish home field they make it very hard for the other team to go forward.  This opens up for that counter. On bigger fields and against teams that are great attacking, well, STLU showed.

The Skidmore @Union game will be a true test. Both teams are used to turf fields and both have to win.  I'm sorry that Union has to do this on one day's rest. Something's gotta give.

I'll be at the RIT@Hobart game -- the final regular season game for 11 seniors -- and expect it will be quite a match.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 30, 2015, 12:46:52 pm
The Skidmore @Union game will be a true test. Both teams are used to turf fields and both have to win. I'm sorry that Union has to do this on one day's rest. Something's gotta give.

They don't HAVE to win.  They both will get in if RIT loses, but they can't count on that happening  ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 30, 2015, 02:09:44 pm
The Skidmore @Union game will be a true test. Both teams are used to turf fields and both have to win. I'm sorry that Union has to do this on one day's rest. Something's gotta give.

They don't HAVE to win.  They both will get in if RIT loses, but they can't count on that happening  ;)

Oops and correct you are, Ommadawn! I think my bias showed  :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 30, 2015, 02:13:02 pm
The LL definitely deserve 2 bids to the  dance this year.
Then again, Brazil deserved to win a World Cup in 1982  :-[
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on October 30, 2015, 03:49:27 pm
Is RPI really about to receive an At-Large bid if SLU, Stevens and Oneonta win their conference tournaments? They were eliminated from the conference tournament with games still to be played. Questions will be asked if RPI gets a bid over a Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 30, 2015, 04:02:27 pm
Jason Miller-FC Blazers-Needham HS-Union College*

I only recall having seen the new Union player in action, and he'll be a fine addition to the Dutchmen.  He's relatively small, but he's quick, dynamic, and very skilled.  He can play multiple positions and brings a high level of intensity to the game. 

It took nearly all season for this freshman to have a major impact, but he got the game winner in the 106th minute last night against Vassar.


They also former Williams star User Kushiana's brother Another from Berkshire school who is very fast and skilled on the flank. A little small in size but dangerous nevertheless
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 30, 2015, 04:05:19 pm
Is RPI really about to receive an At-Large bid if SLU, Stevens and Oneonta win their conference tournaments? They were eliminated from the conference tournament with games still to be played. Questions will be asked if RPI gets a bid over a Hobart.




No chance. They would take Brockport St over RPI. So most likely 2 SUNYAC Pool C's over any from LL. I do not agree with it and I believe Hobart deserves it but they have a VERY good chance of winning the LL anyway
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 31, 2015, 03:01:25 pm
SLU defeats Clarkson 3-0 to take the LL regular season title.  3 goals yet again coming from freshman.  Durocher's final hurrah as coach nets him one of the best recruiting classes SLU has seen in quite some time.  Senior forward Ryan Grant started today, his first game back in a month and half or so after injury.  He was the leading scorer until he went down, so as they say with Arsenal and their injuries, "it's like a new signing".
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 01, 2015, 02:08:44 pm
SLU has to be feeling pretty good: in good form, facing a winnable mid-week game, and with a chance to see either a tired Skidmore or settle-up accounts with Hobart.  Hobart @SLU has elements for a pretty good college soccer game as Hobart's NCAA chances (and -- if they get to the LL title game -- an eight game win streak) are pitted against SLU pride (and skill, and playing on their lovely home field). 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 02, 2015, 09:38:43 am
Again, I think most SLU fans would love to see a rematch with Hobart in the final.  Hopefully it turns out that way.  The Saints need to be careful not to overlook Union on Wednesday.  An early goal should just about seal the deal in that one.

Back-to-Back-to-Back Liberty League Double champions? Now that would be incredible.  We shall see!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 02, 2015, 12:09:02 pm
I love this SLU v Union match-up. These games happen year in and year out. Will Union come out intimidated by SLU and assume they are going to lose or will SLU be over confident thinking all we need to do is show up to win since we beat them 8-0 a week or two ago.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 02, 2015, 12:52:33 pm
I love this SLU v Union match-up. These games happen year in and year out. Will Union come out intimidated by SLU and assume they are going to lose or will SLU be over confident thinking all we need to do is show up to win since we beat them 8-0 a week or two ago.

This game is somewhat analogous to the Amherst/Wesleyan playoff game Saturday -- a blowout for the home team followed by a replay a short time later.  I'd be curious to know whether Union makes the 4 hour trip Tuesday, or drives up just before the game on Wednesday.  If the former, I expect Union to make it close.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 02, 2015, 01:09:04 pm
The game will be close.
Never underestimate school pride.

The game, and I say it again was not a 8-0 game circa 2012 Wheaton in the NCAAs

The game was even and 0-0 after 44:59 seconds.
Union had played a double OT game the day before and faced a rested SLU on Sandy.

SLU is tough to play on Sandy when they are going on all cylinders and they just happened to be on that day.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 02, 2015, 01:38:31 pm
There is no question Union will be going up the night before. I would imagine Skidmore does the same in Geneva. Why play on legs that have been on a bus 3 hrs when u can get fully rested legs going up the night before. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 02, 2015, 01:48:46 pm
There is no question Union will be going up the night before. I would imagine Skidmore does the same in Geneva. Why play on legs that have been on a bus 3 hrs when u can get fully rested legs going up the night before.

The Skidmore at Hobart game is Tuesday (3 Nov), 1330 (because the field has no lights and the William Smith (women) are hosting the semi-final playoff game on Wednesday. They are higher seeded then the Hobart (men) so have priority). It is supposed to be sunny and 70F for kickoff on Tuesday.   What fun.

So, Union and SLU will know who will be their opponent 20 some hours before they kick-off. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 02, 2015, 02:34:43 pm
There is no question Union will be going up the night before. I would imagine Skidmore does the same in Geneva. Why play on legs that have been on a bus 3 hrs when u can get fully rested legs going up the night before.

You are probably correct as to the travel date, but unfortunately, Union soccer is not Union hockey, so there may be budgetary limitations that dictate Wednesday travel . . .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 03, 2015, 03:42:57 pm
Skidmore beats Hobart 1-0 at Hobart. Thoroughbreds controlled the game and kept Hobart from ever really getting into a rhythm. Statesmen had a couple of chances but never got anything going really. Skidmore reminds me a lot of MIT: not particularly skilled in the final third or midfield, but they find goals, are very organized and big, and do well in the middle of the field due to their shape. My guess is that Hobart will have to sweat it regarding a Pool C mainly due to their SOS.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2015, 03:46:46 pm
Accurate assessment blooter, Hobart never really looked threatening.  I was quite surprised by this result.  Skidmore did not finish the season strong and Hobart was riding a 7 game win streak.  Next to SLU (homer bias  ;D) Hobart was the strongest LL team I've seen this year.  But like Saint of Old says, anyone can beat anyone anytime in this sport. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 03, 2015, 06:12:17 pm
Tough day for Statesmen.   
Credit to the physicality of Skidmore for bringing game to a level of play where they can succeed.
Hobart is wishing it were a 64 team, not a 61 team, field for NCAAs....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on November 03, 2015, 11:59:19 pm
Unfortunately Hobart looked a little confused. When a team is doing that well for a couple weeks and falls into good form, it can be tough to scramble when they find themselves in different situations late in games. Not giving up a ton of goals and then trying to find some in the waning minutes can be tough when Hobart hasn't scored a ton of goals this year, especially in conference. Credit to Skidmore for taking in to the Statesman in the 2nd half instead of just defending, which we all know they can do. Skidmore had a second goal questionably called back and was much more dangerous in the 2nd half. Amazing how a 13-3-2 team may very well have played their last game of the season. No doubt Hobart deserves some love in the NCAA polls, and many don't agree with them being left off of their rankings. Can only imagine the questioning that ensues if an RPI team plays again in the NCAA's. At some point judgment needs to not only be numbers, but passing the eye test. You see it all the time for you NCAA D1 Basketball fans; they are looking for 64 teams, give or take a couple, so are we.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 04, 2015, 09:10:07 am
If RPI gets in over Hobart, then I think we all know why. Unfortunately for the Statesmen, Griffin doesn't sit on the NCAA selection committee. As far as overall resumes go, you'd like to see the team that's been hotter more recently get the bid, as they'll in theory make for better competition come tournament time.

Oddly enough, Hobart has to be pulling hard for SLU to win this thing now, as a Skidmore win surely ends Hobart's chance at an at-large, which the Saints would snatch up.

Today should be another great match, I don't see it being more than a 1 goal game.  Perhaps even penalties?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2015, 12:04:02 pm
Skidmore beats Hobart 1-0 at Hobart. Thoroughbreds controlled the game and kept Hobart from ever really getting into a rhythm. Statesmen had a couple of chances but never got anything going really. Skidmore reminds me a lot of MIT: not particularly skilled in the final third or midfield, but they find goals, are very organized and big, and do well in the middle of the field due to their shape. My guess is that Hobart will have to sweat it regarding a Pool C mainly due to their SOS.



I thought the same thing a couple weeks ago when I saw MIT because I have seen Skidmore maybe 3 times. Now I am more inclined to compare Skidmore and Bowdoin. Very structured and organized defensively. Very good GK's(Bowdoin's is better) , athletic and anemic offensively. Very deliberate after getting the first goal. Meaning willing to waste time early in the 2nd Half. Absolutely hate THAT PART but the rest of it is commendable. Bowdoin has a bit more quality but not by much.


I will give Skidmore a slight advantage after Union upsets SLU because Union will be so high after a win like that they would be prime for a beating.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2015, 01:41:21 pm
1-0 Union on an absolutely horrible Gk'ing mistake. Sun caused him some problems but cmon that was WEAK
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2015, 01:50:10 pm
i am shocked Union has not gone to a block of 7 defensively. They are actually staying in their shape and not dropping to deep after losing the ball.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2015, 01:52:40 pm
SLU plays a high line, Union coach clearly isn't content with trying to protect a one goal lead.  Better chance scoring again than not conceding an equalizer I guess. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 04, 2015, 01:53:55 pm
If it continues at this rate, you'll see Copeland, Yarros, and Dorney up top for the last 15 min...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2015, 01:55:10 pm
The way SLU's backs are passing, I would consider throwing a wrench in and press them hard 2nd Half if they want to get that 2nd goal
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2015, 02:04:27 pm
Man, how SLU have missed Grant.  He has a ridiculous goal scoring record in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 04, 2015, 02:04:34 pm
1-1 Grant. Really nice give-and-go, opened Union up like slicing butter.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2015, 02:14:03 pm
Grant is perhaps the most technical forward in school history, which is SAYING a lot!!!!

Not quite as creative as Ballantyne, but just as skillful.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on November 04, 2015, 02:19:57 pm
Did Roche, Dede, and Yarros all get injured during practice this week? None of them started.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2015, 02:20:50 pm
He's not your typical CF. Has the ball skills of a CAM and positioning of a true striker. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2015, 03:37:00 pm
The game will be close.
Never underestimate school pride.

The game, and I say it again was not a 8-0 game circa 2012 Wheaton in the NCAAs

The game was even and 0-0 after 44:59 seconds.
Union had played a double OT game the day before and faced a rested SLU on Sandy.

SLU is tough to play on Sandy when they are going on all cylinders and they just happened to be on that day.

Great game by the Dutchmen.

I knew they would come out and fight hard. They had a great season indeed and will be among the best teams in conference next year.

Saints must try to  clinch the league now against Skidmore.
A repeat of the 2013 finals.
Should be a great game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2015, 03:40:47 pm
Congrats to the Saints and Skidmore.  Regional Rankings still have RPI at number 4, with Skidmore and Hobart nowhere to be found.  If Saints give a 6th loss to Skidmore once again this could be a 1 LL NCAA qualifier year.  Hopefully this is Roethel's worst game or it will be a very short Saints run. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2015, 03:44:41 pm
Congrats to the Saints and Skidmore.  Regional Rankings still have RPI at number 4, with Skidmore and Hobart nowhere to be found.  If Saints give a 6th loss to Skidmore once again this could be a 1 LL NCAA qualifier year.  Hopefully this is Roethel's worst game or it will be a very short Saints run.

Uncharacteristic 1st half by Roethel, but he played much better in the 2nd half.  Sun was clearly bothering him but that was a pretty bad gaffe nonetheless. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 04, 2015, 03:51:46 pm
Roethel's been rock solid all year. No need to throw him under the bus.  The way he handled some of those crosses and corners in the 2nd half was downright impressive.

SLU has always prided itself in the team picking each other up when they need it, and today was no exception.

Can't wait for the final!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2015, 03:54:31 pm
Roethel's bailed them out on more than one occasion, and has only allowed 6 goals 18 games.  I wouldn't say he's entitled to a howler but he certainly has earned the right to not be judged on one mistake like that.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2015, 03:54:53 pm
Agreed.  He is an excellent keeper and I would consider him a top candidate for defensive POY.  On the offensive side the two leading scorers overall are from the last place team who finished with a 5-0 beatdown.  Don't know what you do with that.  So can the 7th place team in a 9 team conference earn an NCAA bid?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: TheSwayzeTrain on November 04, 2015, 05:12:58 pm
Agreed.  He is an excellent keeper and I would consider him a top candidate for defensive POY.  On the offensive side the two leading scorers overall are from the last place team who finished with a 5-0 beatdown.  Don't know what you do with that.  So can the 7th place team in a 9 team conference earn an NCAA bid?

Well atleast RPI will be well rested having weeks off while others play. Seems that they benefit from teams playing in their conference tournament which they didn't qualify for. How can you reward a team for not making the conference tournament? Why have conference games during the year if not making the tournament has no consequence? Seems like Chris Apple has lost interest in giving the East their respect seeing that Rochester isn't in the picture. Just another reason why committee members shouldn't be part of their own teams fate. If that's the case then a lot more coaches will be looking to represent their regions. No wonder Rochester has gotten the benefit of the doubt over the last handful of years. Not knocking their talent but I'm sure some real deserving teams were overlooked because them. No wonder why SOS is talked about, and who always has a high SOS; Rochester.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 06, 2015, 11:33:57 am
Predictions for the final?  Going to be a hell of a game. The LL title game hasn't gone to OT since Hobart topped Union in 2009, and I think this one could end up finishing in a similar fashion.

1-0 SLU in 2OT.

Here we go Saints!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2015, 11:45:17 am
I've been praising Skidmore all year so why stop now. I'll take Skidmore 0-0 PK's. If Skidmore could snag a bid they are in a great geographical location to be sent to many different regions. Also, I think that would certainly wash RPI and possibly Plattsburgh if Oneonta loses to Brockport.

I have seen Oneonta a couple times this year but have not seen Brockport yet. I remember them at Brandeis last year but not sure how they stack up this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 06, 2015, 11:53:49 am
Ugh, penalties. Please no.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2015, 12:52:48 pm
SLU gonna snag a Pool C anyway give the breds a chance in the dance. Let the LL prove itself out there
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 06, 2015, 12:54:31 pm
No predictions from me, but no Saint is ever happy when a game goes to penalties.
Should be the biggest battle of the year for both teams.
I might be in the minority here, but I do think that All 4 teams playing in the Finals this weekend (SUNYAC/LL) should get in with a Pool C.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: lastguyoffthebench on November 06, 2015, 12:59:54 pm

I'm still going with SLU 2, Skidmore 0.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 06, 2015, 01:55:02 pm

I'm still going with SLU 2, Skidmore 0.

Agreeing with LGOB's predication: SLU 2 up on Skidmore.
Suspect it will not be a free-flowing game, and my over-under on yellow cards is four.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2015, 01:31:23 pm
Things are getting awfully chippy in Canton.  2 red cards on one play for SLU and Skidmore midway through the first half, 10 v 10 here on out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2015, 01:38:21 pm
And now a handball in the box on Skidmore.  SLU converts the PK.  Kisselbach did well to get a hand on it but it was hit hard. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 01:40:10 pm
I was going to say Kisselbach almost got to that. Good effort. 10 v 10 and now Skidmore will have to attack. Game should open up in the 2nd Half
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 01:51:58 pm
Skidmore ties it up 1-1 with a header off a corner. Almost Halftime.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2015, 02:00:31 pm
That was a good set piece by Skidmore.  2nd half should be interesting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: soccerfan111 on November 07, 2015, 02:03:31 pm
Anyone have a recap on what happened on the double red play? Also, is Yarros hurt?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2015, 02:05:51 pm
It was a bad tackle by Skidmore and then the SLU centerback got in a shoving match with the Skidmore players.  I'm not entirely sure on Yarros but I think he picked up a minor injury in practice. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 02:07:43 pm
I am interested to see how Skidmore comes out 2nd Half. 10 v 10 can be fun and open things up a bit if Skidmore were to take a chance and attack and press but they do not play that way usually.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 07, 2015, 02:19:15 pm
Grant scores 50', SLU up 2-1.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 02:31:47 pm
Skidmore with a nice chance. Great ball that led Santos 1v1 with SLU GK and a fine save by SLU's GK as he made himself BIG
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 02:54:16 pm
10 minutes left SLU still up 2-1 but Skidmore starting to apply the pressure.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 07, 2015, 02:58:34 pm
Dilts to Grant ices the game with a 3-1 lead 84'
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 03:01:45 pm
SLU ends Skidmore's NCAA dreams and their season is over unless they applied to get into the ECAC's. Valiant effort by Skidmore today but just not enough.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2015, 03:04:05 pm
3rd straight double for the Saints.  Missing key pieces to injury to start the year but the freshmen class stepped up big time. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 07, 2015, 03:29:35 pm
So do any other LL teams get into the dance?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 03:34:55 pm
Nope...One bid league once again
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 07, 2015, 03:46:18 pm
A shame.  So many talented players in a league where the teams beat each other up routinely during the regular season.  Most even league season in a long time with every team able to beat any other team on a given day.  From a future recruiting standpoint, the LL is going to become a tough sell.  Other conferences that routinely get multiple bids, NESCAC, UAA etc. will be more attractive if a prospective player wants to get to the NCAA tourney.  St. Lawrence is a tough choice as they are deep for years to come.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 03:55:09 pm
Nah that does not come in to play as much in D3. The Liberty league is a strong league but some teams need to do better out of conference and some need to beef up their out of conference schedules. Hobart and Skidmore are good sides who should be in the NCAA's but it did not work out
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 07, 2015, 06:23:02 pm
Nah that does not come in to play as much in D3. The Liberty league is a strong league but some teams need to do better out of conference and some need to beef up their out of conference schedules. Hobart and Skidmore are good sides who should be in the NCAA's but it did not work out

Hobart's loss to Skidmore probably cost them a bid and did not improve Skidmore's chances enough.  Both of thee teams, and RPI, are hoping for selection miracles (as is Cortland over in the SUNYAC)....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 07, 2015, 06:31:11 pm
Hobart, Skidmore, Cortland and RPI have about as good a chance of Green Mountain to get in. ZERO. Harsh yes because all 4 teams are good teams but they came up a bit short. I forgot if the NY / NJ region still does an ECAC tournament but I think all 4 teams should participate if they elected to participate which some schools do not.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2015, 01:36:45 pm
RPI gets a bid. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: lastguyoffthebench on November 09, 2015, 01:38:15 pm

Thank you. Thank you!  I'm here all week.   -Barbaro.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 09, 2015, 02:10:30 pm
How does a team that doesn't make its conference tournament get an NCAA bid? The RPI coach should be ashamed of himself.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 09, 2015, 02:11:40 pm
Not to mention they were a much better and more deserving side in 2013 and 2014. This year's side is average at best
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 09, 2015, 02:20:19 pm
When you looked at the latest press releases from RPI that always mentioned an NCAA bid as a possibility when all the pundits were saying no way you knew the fix was in.  I am really a fan of this league, and don't want to sound too much like a detractor, but this is such a disservice to Hobart this year, and all the LL teams in the past who have had to fight and claw their way into the playoffs.  Seventh place in the conference.  Nuf said.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 09, 2015, 02:25:18 pm
I am really a fan of this league, and don't want to sound too much like a detractor, but this is such a disservice to Hobart this year, and all the LL teams in the past who have had to fight and claw their way into the playoffs.  Seventh place in the conference.  Nuf said.   

Yeah. Regardless of Hobart's SOS, they still got shafted IMHO. Not even making your conference tournament is really bad, and to have a team that was subject to that fate picked over a 13-3-2 team is bad.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bucket on November 09, 2015, 02:28:24 pm
When you looked at the latest press releases from RPI that always mentioned an NCAA bid as a possibility when all the pundits were saying no way you knew the fix was in.  I am really a fan of this league, and don't want to sound too much like a detractor, but this is such a disservice to Hobart this year, and all the LL teams in the past who have had to fight and claw their way into the playoffs.  Seventh place in the conference.  Nuf said.   

And selected over Middlebury team that finished second in the NESCAC (and was upset in the semifinals on penalty kicks.)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2015, 02:29:20 pm
When you looked at the latest press releases from RPI that always mentioned an NCAA bid as a possibility when all the pundits were saying no way you knew the fix was in.  I am really a fan of this league, and don't want to sound too much like a detractor, but this is such a disservice to Hobart this year, and all the LL teams in the past who have had to fight and claw their way into the playoffs.  Seventh place in the conference.  Nuf said.   


No disagreement there.  Hobart made the LL tourney AND beat SLU who were ranked at the time. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 09, 2015, 02:32:17 pm
I agree with Mr. Right. In recent years the argument to get RPI was much stronger than it is this year. Where is the win that put RPI in? And where did Hobart go wrong?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 09, 2015, 02:34:43 pm
Hobart should have been the only other viable NCAA candidate this year.  Bard loss killed it for Skidmore, and Union has got to start playing a tougher out of conference schedule.  Bard played SLU tougher than RPI.  Since arguably SLU underachieved this year with two conference losses (I am a little tongue in cheek here) perhaps the RPI staff should get coaching staff of the year honors.  Certainly if lobbying the NCAA is a component they should be right up there.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 09, 2015, 02:52:00 pm
I didn't even realize it until I just checked, but RPI went 3-3-2 in the league. It's outrageous they're in the tournament. Meanwhile, Middlebury (12-2-2) is among the teams watching from home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 09, 2015, 03:00:50 pm
Middlebury would have been better off not qualifying for the NESCAC playoffs.  Would have avoided that pesky PK loss and would have had more time to heal from a tough season.  If the committee was going to give bids to teams that didn't make their conference playoffs they should have looked at Vassar.  Vassar beat both SLU and RPI, and tied Oneonta.  What's six losses when you can beat the two NCAA qualifiers from the conference.  Just absurd.  I will stop now. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 09, 2015, 04:32:43 pm
I have to say, as a SLU alum I would love nothing more than a shot at redemption against Amherst, but that's what we've been saying for the last 10 years and it's never gone our way.  I'm not terribly upset they're not in the same pod this year!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 10, 2015, 07:40:05 pm
after a day digesting the NCAA picks.

I think 3 things are for sure.
1. The LL is too good a league to only have one team represented year after year.

In 2011 and 2012 there were three teams picked if memory serves (RPI/Vassar/SLU)

2013 and 2014 only SLU was chosen which is a shame.

2. RPI got royally skewered last season and perhaps deserved a bid.

3. I am happy to be cheering for 2 teams from here on out.
Obviously I want my boyz to "eat the food" as it applies to the NCAA, but I would also like to see RPI do well, and I would feel the same about Hobart/Skidmore or Union were they in the Dance.

Here we go LL!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 10, 2015, 07:48:17 pm
Completely agree Old Saint that the LL is a top class league!  This could be the year for your Saints.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 10, 2015, 08:04:57 pm
Completely agree Old Saint that the LL is a top class league!  This could be the year for your Saints.

I second the motion and join Saint of Old in cheering on both of the league's representatives.  As Patrick (not Thierry) Henry said, "Give me Liberty [League] or give me..." (sorry). 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 10, 2015, 08:08:27 pm
If the committee was going to give bids to teams that didn't make their conference playoffs they should have looked at Vassar.  Vassar beat both SLU and RPI, and tied Oneonta.  What's six losses when you can beat the two NCAA qualifiers from the conference. 

Vassar definitely had a weird season. They performed well against ranked teams, but shot themselves in the foot by losing four LL games 1-0.  If they had managed a single goal in any of those four games, they would have made the league playoffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Madared on November 10, 2015, 08:12:29 pm
Apparently the Liberty could look a bit different next year as Ithaca has been offered and accepted a bid to join the league.  Their membership and schedule might be in place as early as next academic year. 

An Ithaca/Hobart rivalry could be great for both programs.  It might take a few years for Ithaca to gain traction in the league, but LL membership can surely help with recruiting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 11, 2015, 09:09:53 am
Really...Interesting....So more defectors from the Empire 8 to the Liberty League. This is a great move for both school and conference. Ithaca and Hobart is already a big rivalry so putting them in the same conference really does not add anything to it IMO. If this move is legit then they will almost be forced to expand their conference tournament. Meanwhile, the Empire 8 is becoming obsolete. Schools like Elmira, Utica and Alfred are left for dead. Stevens is in no man's land. All these schools must be coming together to decide what the plan will be. One more defector and they will not have a league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 11, 2015, 01:17:28 pm
Ithaca won't be in the LL until the 2017 season. There are exit parameters that had to be met with the E8. One can't help but wonder if this means more teams make the playoffs in certain sports?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 11, 2015, 03:16:50 pm
Unless a another member of the league moves out? Just saying...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 11, 2015, 05:58:55 pm
No sooner does the Ithaca news come out ... when THIS Ithaca news comes out:
http://www.ithacajournal.com/story/news/local/2015/11/11/hundreds-plan-walk-out-ithaca-college/75570208/
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: wingtips2 on November 11, 2015, 10:02:13 pm
No sooner does the Ithaca news come out ... when THIS Ithaca news comes out:
http://www.ithacajournal.com/story/news/local/2015/11/11/hundreds-plan-walk-out-ithaca-college/75570208/
Their protests and gatherings are offensive to me and are causing me micro aggressions.
I demand they all be removed from campus.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 11:16:29 am
Sage is parking a bus not even Mourinho would do.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 14, 2015, 11:26:44 am
SLU is playing down to their competition. SLU GK is killing them every time I tune in
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 11:27:05 am
Sage goes up 1-0 on a terrible goal keeping error.  This is the worst I've seen SLU play all year.  Terrible passing, first touch like a brick oven.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 11:39:42 am
This is painful to watch.  SLU can't string together more than 2 passes. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 11:47:15 am
Legitimately the worst half of soccer SLU has played all year.  Dreadful performance thus far.  Austin Dilts is killing every push forward by giving the ball away. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 12:26:31 pm
After 60 minutes of ugly soccer SLU ties it up off a corner. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 12:53:06 pm
Hand ball in the box on a SLU corner, Noah Bunton converts to put SLU up 2-1 with 6:45 remaining.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 01:05:30 pm
Ugly game by SLU, but the tournament isn't about style, it's about advancing.  Mature performance by SLU to kill the game off.  Lots of credit to Sage.  They played a very good game and stuck to their plan. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 14, 2015, 01:20:18 pm
If Sage could defend corners SLU would be cleaning out their lockers.  SLU is very fortunate they are not playing Amherst again tomorrow.  Based on today's showing that would be a blood bath.  Hopefully for the reputation of the LL SLU's evil twin takes the rest of the tournament off. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 14, 2015, 01:27:43 pm
To be fair, it's extremely hard for any team to defend SLU corners when when a 6'5" first team All American is in the mixer.  He had the assist on the goal, it was just SLU playing to their strengths.  Have to give credit to Sage.  The played a very compact defense that disrupted SLU's typical free flowing game plan.  Would have been hard for anyone to get a good result there.  However, it was still a poor performance for 60 minutes by SLU.  Lots of bad passes and heavy first touches.  Like you said hopefully they've worked out the kinks.  A young team is bound to be a bit nervy in their first tournament game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 14, 2015, 01:40:01 pm
Great first game.
The problem for SLU over the past few seasons in my opinion is not being tested in the early rounds of the dance.

Now that "bad" game is out of the system the boyz should be much looser for tomorrow's opponent.

Good first Tourney win for Tosh while getting to rest his secret weapon.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 15, 2015, 01:09:59 pm
SLU goes up 1-0 on some set piece trickery
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 15, 2015, 11:01:17 pm
So checking out next week's games SLU has as good a shot as any to get to the final four.  Their defense has been playing lights out and a goal or two off set pieces should get them past Haverford.  Oneonta is vulnerable.  They lost against RPI and were a post away from losing to Vassar.  RPI's demise leaves the LL banner with the Saints.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 16, 2015, 08:53:29 am
At this point in the tournament, the "anything can happen" mantra really becomes reality. Almost all of the teams left at this point are good enough to win it all, so it's all about who shows up on the day.  Defending, set pieces, brilliant finishing, etc. will determine who comes out of the East region sectional.

I had assumed that the matches would be held at Haverford, but Oneonta would make far more sense from a centrally located campus perspective.  Curious to see where it ends up.  I'd imagine SLU would prefer to play on Haverford's grass vs. Oneonta's turf though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 16, 2015, 10:15:15 am
Already determined.  It's a Haverford.

Sectional hosts: Amhesrt - Haverford - Loras - Kenyon
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 16, 2015, 10:39:46 am
Already determined.  It's a Haverford.

Sectional hosts: Amhesrt - Haverford - Loras - Kenyon

Where are you seeing that information? Or are you just assuming because of the byes? I was under the impression that the sites would be chosen today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 16, 2015, 12:15:38 pm
The NCAA's printable bracket was updated last night and shows the Sectional hosts: http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/external/gametool/brackets/soccer-men_d3_2015.pdf
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 16, 2015, 12:17:22 pm
Also, some of the men's and women's teams had made edits to their Sunday game recaps to mention that they were hosting sectionals.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 21, 2015, 12:07:00 pm
Although the game is only half over, there is no indication that the second half will be any better than the first for SLU.  I assumed SLU's defense would keep them in any game but I was wrong there.  Also, it didn't help SLU to start with two weak opponents at home last weekend.  Haverford is for real.  Finally, SLU's forwards have totally disappeared in the tournament.  Well, they have 45 minutes to save their season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 21, 2015, 12:44:53 pm
Wheels have just fallen off. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 21, 2015, 01:00:59 pm
Disappointing end to SLU's season.  That was very frustrating to watch.  However, all credit goes to Haverford.  They are a very good squad and could very well make a run to the finals.  Congrats to the Fords.  SLU has a good, young foundation to build upon the next coming years.  Hunt and Copeland will be missed greatly, but the team has lots to look forward to. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 21, 2015, 02:30:42 pm
I was impressed with the full effort of Saints, no shame to their end.
Forwards across the Northeast, and particularly the rest of the LL, will be glad to see Copeland watching from the sidelines next year....
Haverford a bit better than I expected, hmm.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on January 13, 2016, 03:12:07 pm
SLU's right back for the past four years, Dan Hunt, is on trial with League Two side Hartlepool in England. Story here:

http://saintsathletics.com/news/2016/1/12/MSOC_0112162246.aspx (http://saintsathletics.com/news/2016/1/12/MSOC_0112162246.aspx)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on January 14, 2016, 04:53:54 pm
SLU's right back for the past four years, Dan Hunt, is on trial with League Two side Hartlepool in England. Story here:

http://saintsathletics.com/news/2016/1/12/MSOC_0112162246.aspx (http://saintsathletics.com/news/2016/1/12/MSOC_0112162246.aspx)

Best of luck to him!  Too bad he was injured for portions of the 2015 season.  I've considered him to be SLU's most talented player for some time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on January 14, 2016, 05:09:48 pm
Good for #21.
What I can say is that he is arguably the best right back in SLU History (definitely most productive).
There is some stiff competition from Berner and Manfredie, but the kid is the perfect combo of size/speed/skill/goal scoring ability.
All good things to have at the next level.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on June 08, 2016, 12:30:47 pm
I just wanted to take a minute to congratulate yet another very good Saint Goalie...
Who wrote his page well in "the Book of Saints".
Ofcoarse I'm biased, and I admit to it, but this 7 second clip says it all about SLU SOCCER.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YurKRSecvgY
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 10, 2016, 12:26:26 pm
Liberty league 2016 is finally here with many of the boyz packing for preseason training this weekend.

This will perhaps be the most unpredictable year in a long time, but let me go ahead and try to predict.

Clarkson:
Will have another very tough year. They were surpassed on the depth chart last year by Bard, and I don't see them moving up despite an above average recruiting class.

Bard:
Last season's much deserved COY passed away suddenly, but not before bringing respectability and good soccer to his program. Bard for my money was by far "the most improved team" in the conference, which is a title every single coach in the country tries to attain. I think the Boys from bard will take inspiration from their late and great coach and shock even more people in 2016.

RIT:
The Jeckyl and Hyde of the Liberty league.
They can beat anyone in the league and lose tpo anyone in the league.
This year they will continue the trend more than likely, and that will not be enough to get them in the league dance.

Skidmore:
Last years conference finalists might have a rough go, but have some serious firepower and could get a 3rd or 4th seed.

RPI:
Will be good this year.
The team is well coached, and they are also aware that they had a great season last year (besides the middle part).

Union:
Has something to prove.
They were up by a goal against SLU in last years league semi, and have been a solid program for the last 3-4 years, just cant seem to get to the big dance. Look for that to possibly change, I definitely see them being top 4.

Vassar:
Can beat any team in the league, and have proven it time and time again. They are always a playoff team, but have not made it to the big dance in a couple years. Watch for them to rebuild while reloading this year with a good incoming class. Coached by the most experienced coach in the league, Vassar will again make league playoff, but will have to catch fire in order to make NCAAs.

SLU:
Very hard for me to put my bias away to write 4 lines on this team but...
2nd year head coach will now have his own horses to ride for an entire season.
Losing a whole lot from last season's squad.
The only positive I see at this point is that the team will be very very fast.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on August 10, 2016, 02:43:28 pm
Great overview, Saint!  You hit on some of the key issues confronting LL teams.  Let's not forget about Hobart, however.  They have been accumulating some top notch talent over the past few years and were in contention for an NCAA tournament berth until the very end last year.  As always, my impression of the league is that there is SLU...and then there is everyone else.  I don't see SLU being displaced from the top of the table anytime soon.  That said, I think the battle for the remaining playoff spots is truly wide open, with all teams except maybe for Clarkson and Bard having a solid chance to reach the postseason tournament.  In just a few short weeks, we'll start to get some answers!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 10, 2016, 03:02:31 pm
Only had one cup of coffee today.
The Statesmen  of Hobart will be in the mix and will make the playoff (is that 6 teams I have in the 4 team playoff now :) )
They were dominant 4-6 years ago, and were even challenging for Big Dog status in the league during that time.
I think they were strong last year.
I believe beat SLU at home.
They are always a top team in the league, even when they fail to dance.

So again:
1. Hobart
2.Vassar
3. Union
4. Skidmore
5.RPI
6.SLU
Will all be battling for 4 spots.
Throw RIT in there and it shows you how competitive a league this really is.

Oh, to have one more year of eligibility... But then again looking at SLU's young strikers, maybe not.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 10, 2016, 04:02:55 pm
I think Hobart if motivated and focused for every league game has a real shot at winning the title this year. They are an athletic bunch, well coached an feisty when I saw them last year.

RIT was a much better program in the old Empire 8 and I still do not understand why they have dropped off a bit in the Liberty League. They used to play LL opponents out of conference an beat them when they were in the Empire 8 but the past few years have been a major disappointment.

Union while utterly dominated at SLU in the semi-finals even after scoring the 1st goal were a young side last year. I have been a big critic of Jeff Guin's scheduling since he has been at Union but this year's schedule looks much improved except for their annual pilgrimage to play Albany College of Pharmacy. They have added some Empire 8 and SUNYAC foes in Utica and New Paltz plus they have added UMASS Boston. So there is improvement but still weak. 4 games that they will win but will absolutely kill their SOS and OWP are Pharmacy, Johnson St, SUNY Poly and SUNY Canton. So an at-large is basically impossible. They do have some young talent and I hear a decent recruiting class so they will be a tough out in the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 10, 2016, 05:08:35 pm
Forget to mention Hobart's impressive out of conference schedule.

Etown, Dickinson,Rochester, Cortland St

Plus...Utica, Geneseo St, Potsdam St and Ithica...All very decent teams which should have over ..500 W/L records

Add that to the LL schedule and we are talking about possibly close to a .600 SOS....At large berth very possible with some good wins available.



RPI's look good as usual....with Rochester, Williams, Oneonta and Dickinson.


Vassar has Oneonta and Rochester and the rest looks average....Maybe a .565 SOS

Skidmore has Plattsburgh, Cortland and Williams spread thru some very weak teams.

Clarkson and SLU playing over half the SUNYAC.

Anyway, I still feel like if Hobart stays focused, healthy, gets some help from the frosh and a little luck they could win the LL or even get a Pool C with some key wins out of conference( see 2015 RPI)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 12, 2016, 07:01:47 pm
Another season with the astute Liberty League fans.  Hopefully more than one of the top 6 teams will make the tournament this year.  (RPI actually finished 7th last year).  In making predictions I try to consider who has graduated and who is coming back.  This is important for every team but St. Lawrence who just seems to replace quality with quality whenever it needs to.  St. Lawrence graduates a great forward who would have had a phenomenal statistical year but for injury in Ryan Grant, an All American defensive anchor in Harry Copeland, DPOY goalie Ryan Roethel, and Second Teamers Yarros and Hunt in the back.  They also a very skilled midfielder in Chandler Short who isn't on the roster.  For any other team this would indicate a down year.  Rob Brundell comes back and if fully recovered will be one of the top players in the league  and SLU will just reload starting with the ROY.  Have to pick them number 1.  Hobart is a solid 2 even though they graduate an excellent goalie in Tyler Seraphine and a stud defender in Kyle Herrod.  Derrick Acheampong could easily have been a first teamer as a freshman and will be a scary challenge for any defense.  Skidmore loses an excellent goalie in Eli Kisselbach but always is strong in the back and has another young powerhouse forward in Augustine Okoye.  Everyone else competes for number 4, and much as it pains me given last year's injustice (Skidmore or Hobart and a bunch of other teams should have gotten RPI's dance spot), have to go with RPI.  Union, last year's number 4, loses 11 goals including a playoff goal against SLU, and a 50 point career player, in Carl Faber, a hard nosed and creative workhorse.  They will really miss him up top.  RIT has some good young players but are simply too erratic to make a run.  Vassar graduates 10 including Tom Wiechert's 21 points, 70+ career points and gamewinners against SLU and RPI.  RPI loses its top scorer in First Teamer Nate Gunderson, but his 6 goals over 20 games can be replaced.  Devon Baughen, who actually had more goals but only made second team, is creative and will make up the slack.  Bard will return two top scorers, including the top scorer in the league Nick Shenberger, but their 5-0 loss in the last game of the year to Vassar with an ECAC berth on the line, and the tragic loss of their coach, will have them starting on the back heel.  Clarkson returns forward Tucker Wilcox but he is does not have the support bring his team near the top 4.  I agree that the overall the games will be closer but in the end it will look a lot like last year.         
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on August 13, 2016, 05:39:22 pm
Agree with all that is noted on 2016 LL season.
Most of the schools are reporting out very strong recruiting classes. This means October games will be even more interesting.
Hobart upgraded their SOS to be sure that what happened last year with NCAA selections is not repeated, adding Cortland, Elizabethtown and Dickinson in lieu of Fredonia, Plattsburgh (alas) and Nazareth. The 30 September Skidmore at Hobart game should be worth watching as two of the four Hobart losses were v. Thoroughbreds....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on August 19, 2016, 06:28:19 pm
A little Friday afternoon net-surfing revealed a few interesting LL tidbits:

Clarkson's recruiting class:

http://clarksonathletics.com/news/2016/8/1/clarkson-mens-soccer-announces-class-of-2020.aspx?path=msoc

Hobart's new assistant coach:

http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2016/8/19/bednarsky-hired-as-hobart-soccer-assistant-coach.aspx

Union's Costa Rica trip:

http://www.unionathletics.com/news/2016/8/15/mens-soccer-opens-preseason-far-from-home.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 30, 2016, 11:07:15 am
Let the games begin.

Here we go Blue!

http://libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2016/8/30/MSOC_0830161927.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 30, 2016, 03:59:53 pm
A little Friday afternoon net-surfing revealed a few interesting LL tidbits:

Clarkson's recruiting class:

http://clarksonathletics.com/news/2016/8/1/clarkson-mens-soccer-announces-class-of-2020.aspx?path=msoc

Hobart's new assistant coach:

http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2016/8/19/bednarsky-hired-as-hobart-soccer-assistant-coach.aspx

Union's Costa Rica trip:

http://www.unionathletics.com/news/2016/8/15/mens-soccer-opens-preseason-far-from-home.aspx





I must say on paper that looks to be a great class for Clarkson. 4-5 of them come from soccer rich areas and from very good club and HS teams. Now who knows but for Clarkson this is a start and we should get a good read on opening week-end against Brockport and Ithaca and then Plattsburgh. They should have a higher than usual SOS this year, maybe a .575. A reasonable goal would be to try to sneak in the LL playoffs as the #4 seed.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 30, 2016, 04:05:43 pm
I have been saying this for years but with a 9 team league now and possibly 10 if they can get Ithaca a 4 team LL playoff is just insane. A team like Bard's season could be over by the beginning of October. It can be terribly deflating. If they can get to a 10 team league then a 8 team play-off would not be unreasonable as Nescac used to do it or give the #1 seed a bye and automatic hosting and play #2 v #7 , #3 v #6 and #4 v #5.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on August 30, 2016, 05:11:26 pm
I have been saying this for years but with a 9 team league now and possibly 10 if they can get Ithaca a 4 team LL playoff is just insane. A team like Bard's season could be over by the beginning of October. It can be terribly deflating. If they can get to a 10 team league then a 8 team play-off would not be unreasonable as Nescac used to do it or give the #1 seed a bye and automatic hosting and play #2 v #7 , #3 v #6 and #4 v #5.

Or already go with a 5-team (with a #4-#5 playing game) or 6-team (with byes for top 2 seeds) playoff.  Given the depth and parity of the league, expanding from four teams to five  or six is reasonable, even at 9 total teams.  I personally tend to prefer the regular season to mean more, so I'm content with a 4-team playoff in all cases and not a big fan of the 7- or 8-team playoff for a 10-team league. 

And here's an interesting thing to think about.  If the LL playoffs had been a 7-team affair last year and #7 seed RPI had lost to #2 Hobart in the quarterfinals, would they have gotten an at-large berth with the additional loss sitting at 12-6-3?  Sitting out the conference playoffs may have been better for RPI than a quarterfinal or even a semifinal loss, who knows.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on August 30, 2016, 05:16:21 pm
I'm pretty sure the proposal before the LL is that next year when Ithaca joins, the men's soccer playoffs will go to a six-team format.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Christan Shirk on August 30, 2016, 05:34:41 pm
I'm pretty sure the proposal before the LL is that next year when Ithaca joins, the men's soccer playoffs will go to a six-team format.
When the original announcement was made about Ithaca joining the Liberty League it said the move would "occur no later than the 2018-19 academic year".  Has there been any subsequent information about the move happening for next year?  If so, I should include it in the Upcoming Changes section of my What's new for the 2016 season? (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2016/new-in-2016) article.  In fact, regardless, I should probably have included it.  Might still do so.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on August 30, 2016, 06:28:13 pm
FW, what format one prefers may depend for some on which teams they follow and how competitive that conference is.  In a perennially very strong conference I lean towards preferring more rather than less making conference playoffs, perhaps with regular season champ getting an AQ at least in some conferences, and then another bid to playoff winner.  In the Nescac, for instance, it means a lot to the teams that grab the #7 and #8 seeds with at least a puncher's chance to pull an upset.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on August 31, 2016, 12:50:21 am
FW, what format one prefers may depend for some on which teams they follow and how competitive that conference is.  In a perennially very strong conference I lean towards preferring more rather than less making conference playoffs, perhaps with regular season champ getting an AQ at least in some conferences, and then another bid to playoff winner.  In the Nescac, for instance, it means a lot to the teams that grab the #7 and #8 seeds with at least a puncher's chance to pull an upset.

I know why some teams and their fans would want more playoff spots--that's pretty obvious.  I was just giving my unbiased preference as a neutral.

And are you talking about two automatic berths for some conference?  If so, that changes things and I might feel differently about the size of conference tournaments if an AQ was already given to the regular season champ.  But that's not what we currently have.   

Under the current tournament arrangement with one, and only one, automatic berth per conference (whether strong or weak) and thus minimal at-large berths, I'm simply not a fan of #7 or #8 seeds in a conference having the chance to in essence take an at-large berth away from a more deserving team if they pull the upsets to steal the AQ dropping the conference favorite into Pool C and knocking someone off the bubble.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on August 31, 2016, 10:01:07 am
FW, what format one prefers may depend for some on which teams they follow and how competitive that conference is.  In a perennially very strong conference I lean towards preferring more rather than less making conference playoffs, perhaps with regular season champ getting an AQ at least in some conferences, and then another bid to playoff winner.  In the Nescac, for instance, it means a lot to the teams that grab the #7 and #8 seeds with at least a puncher's chance to pull an upset.

I know why some teams and their fans would want more playoff spots--that's pretty obvious.  I was just giving my unbiased preference as a neutral.

And are you talking about two automatic berths for some conference?  If so, that changes things and I might feel differently about the size of conference tournaments if an AQ was already given to the regular season champ.  But that's not what we currently have.   

Under the current tournament arrangement with one, and only one, automatic berth per conference (whether strong or weak) and thus minimal at-large berths, I'm simply not a fan of #7 or #8 seeds in a conference having the chance to in essence take an at-large berth away from a more deserving team if they pull the upsets to steal the AQ dropping the conference favorite into Pool C and knocking someone off the bubble.

Yeah, I was thinking of an AQ for regular season champ for some conferences (and so 2 AQs) although I know that's unrealistic given the difficulty of deciding who would get those beyond NESCAC, UAA and NJAC.  I also was thinking about it primarily from a player experience perspective.  Going somewhere for 4 years and never having any shot at all is tough.  I personally like the idea of the 4v5 game for a conference like the NCAC and 6 team playoffs for a few others.

As an aside, I didn't realize you are a neutral?!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on August 31, 2016, 10:59:43 am
Except for the Commonwealth, I'm a neutral for the other 40+ men's and women's conferences.

And, yeah, I'm not coming at the conference tournaments from a student-athlete/team perspective.  And I'm seeing it within the context of the NCAA tournament berth system.  If the conference tournaments weren't directly tied into the AQ's, maybe I'd feel differently about them. 

Regardless, my preference doesn't count for anything.  The conference tournaments and AQs belong to the each conference and their members get to decide what they want.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 31, 2016, 05:22:55 pm
In the top 4-5 leagues like Nescac, NJAC, etc usually the winner of the league during season play gets a Pool C anyway. I just feel that allowing most, NOT ALL but most teams to participate in their respective conference tournaments give teams that have struggled early, been unlucky, gotten burned by some ref calls, serious injury issues early on, etc allows them to get 1 more chance at getting into the NCAA's. Teams have something to play for all year and makes for better team bonding, practicing harder, playing harder, etc if the team feels they still have a chance at the NCAA's.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on September 01, 2016, 10:12:15 am
In the top 4-5 leagues like Nescac, NJAC, etc usually the winner of the league during season play gets a Pool C anyway. I just feel that allowing most, NOT ALL but most teams to participate in their respective conference tournaments give teams that have struggled early, been unlucky, gotten burned by some ref calls, serious injury issues early on, etc allows them to get 1 more chance at getting into the NCAA's. Teams have something to play for all year and makes for better team bonding, practicing harder, playing harder, etc if the team feels they still have a chance at the NCAA's.

6 team playoff once Ithaca enters is reasonable. With the top 2 seeds getting a bye,I'd think that the 3v6 and 4v5 games would be on a Saturday, with the Semifinals the following Wednesday, and then the final Saturday.  I could see the top seeds complaining about potentially 10 days without a match, but not sure there's much of a way around that (I believe that's how the SUNYAC does it).  At the end of the day, hopefully it allows LL teams to strengthen their out of conference schedules with the knowledge that they'll more than likely have a shot at the league playoff auto-bid.

Still don't think this changes much, as the top teams each year seem to really dominate at home.

Here we go Saints.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 01, 2016, 11:04:49 am
Enjoying this conversation and also excited to see 2016 season start up (with several LL teams playing today)!

Not sure how much a six-team (v. a four-team) playoff structure matters to NCAA selection. 
Bigger factor is strength of schedule.

Clearly Hobart got the message on SOS given their schedule this year: something SLU and RPI have, for years, been doing better than many of the teams in the LL.

Not so sure that Union, Skidmore and Vassar have done enough to make their SOS competitive v. the second or third place SUNYAC teams, or against Rochester or Ithaca (in its last year in Empire 8), come November.  Pretty sure we'll return to this point in late October....

As an aside, had Hobart prevailed against Skidmore in the 2015 playoff game, the SOS calculations would still have had RPI more highly ranked.... Skidmore's team would have been that tiny bit less upset they did not receive an invite, but Hobart's team would have likely been more upset when the invite went to RPI....

This said, I'd like to think that the addition of a 62cd team in NCAA tournament (a 19th pool c team), the LL should be able to count on two teams getting in each year.

Returning to play-off team format, I suspect coaches want the six team format to provide more opportunity, more attention and to get more practice.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2016, 05:38:55 pm
Solid start for a couple possible surprise teams in LL this year.

Union dominated and dismantled Utica, an average to below average Empire 8 team but still a decent side 5-0. Good start for a youNg team on the move. To bad their schedule was not a BIT more challenging out of conference as this side would benefit from it going into league play.

Clarkson a big 2-0 win over Ithaca at home. Did not see the game but stats seemed even and Clarkson grabs a good win. They have a good out of conference schedule so this will only give them confidence.

Anyone catch the SLU 3-1 win over Brockport? Report?  Either way good start for SLU and that win could become helpful down the road.

Waiting on Hobart v Etown but I expect them to get a result even on the road and a draw would be fine as well.

RPI grabs a disappointing draw 1-1 with Sage as it looks like they gave up their 1-0 lead late. I would be willing to bet RPI has more 0 and 1 goal games than anyone in the country the past 5 years, Draws are not the end of the world but gotta re-focus.

RIT grabs a 2-0 win also.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 02, 2016, 05:47:55 pm
Anyone catch the SLU 3-1 wi n over Brockport? Report?  Either way good start for SLU and that win could become helpful sown the road.

I saw a bunch of the game online.  Brockport worked hard and could have had another goal, but there was just too much talent on the field for SLU.  SLU is going to win a few games in true blow-out fashion this year, as they had numerous near misses today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2016, 06:19:35 pm
Anyone catch the SLU 3-1 wi n over Brockport? Report?  Either way good start for SLU and that win could become helpful sown the road.

I saw a bunch of the game online.  Brockport worked hard and could have had another goal, but there was just too much talent on the field for SLU.  SLU is going to win a few games in true blow-out fashion this year, as they had numerous near misses today.


How talented are they this year? Did they look like the NCAA Sweet 16 teams this past decade or maybe the Elite 8 Final 4 teams of the early 2000's?  Or do we not know yet?  What the frosh look like?


If the stream is decent I will watch the Hobart game tonight and am curious to see Messiah open up. will they be vastly improved from 2015? GK situation hopefully improved? etc etc
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 02, 2016, 06:36:28 pm
How talented are they this year? Did they look like the NCAA Sweet 16 teams this past decade or maybe the Elite 8 Final 4 teams of the early 2000's?  Or do we not know yet?  What the frosh look like?

It's too early to tell.  Smith was solid in goal, and I think it will take time for the Dorney/Brandell center back tandem to gel.  Among first-year players, Sinclair caught my eye.  Augustine looks ready to come into his own.  The pieces seem to be there for the team to make a deep run in the tournament, but there's a lot of chemistry to be built between now and then.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 02, 2016, 10:17:28 pm
Anyone catch the SLU 3-1 wi n over Brockport? Report?  Either way good start for SLU and that win could become helpful sown the road.

I saw a bunch of the game online.  Brockport worked hard and could have had another goal, but there was just too much talent on the field for SLU.  SLU is going to win a few games in true blow-out fashion this year, as they had numerous near misses today.


How talented are they this year? Did they look like the NCAA Sweet 16 teams this past decade or maybe the Elite 8 Final 4 teams of the early 2000's?  Or do we not know yet?  What the frosh look like?


If the stream is decent I will watch the Hobart game tonight and am curious to see Messiah open up. will they be vastly improved from 2015? GK situation hopefully improved? etc etc


Ignore my username bias for a bit here, but this year's SLU team is quite talented.  I'd say it's too early to judge/compare to teams of the past, but there's lots of potential. They are an extremely fast team, fastest that I can remember really.  Copeland was pretty much impossible to replace, but Steve Dorney is anchoring the back line at 6'5".  While not as offensively prolific as Copeland was, he'll be one of the better defenders in the league.   Senior Noah Bunton looks like he as taken the next step in terms of talent and leadership.  He looked like a bona fide #10 on the field today, and dare I say looked similar to Sam Demello.  Extremely technical, pacey and a great goal off a 30 yard shot.   Jethro Dede won LL ROTY last season, and has solidified himself has one of the league's best DMs.  The striker position may be the only spot that's not completely solidified.  Augustine/Kelly are the top strikers right now, but it'll be interesting to see if they take the next step this  year.  Freshman class does not have a lot of immediate impact players, but Jevaughn Sinclair is one of the fastest players I've ever seen wear a SLU kit.  He is a player to keep a close eye on, and may be the next Saint of Old out on the right wing. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 03, 2016, 03:32:40 pm
SLU nicks an OT win against Ithaca 2-1.  Looked like Tosh was resting some guys and Dede didn't play the 2nd half, hope it was just a knock and nothing long term, we really missed him at the end of last year.  Good to get more guys playing time, this team may be deeper than I originally thought.  Clarkson also knocks off Brockport 1-0.  Would be great to see them compete this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 03, 2016, 08:58:19 pm
Great early test for the boyz.
Overall a good weekend for St. Lawrence.
The Senior class looks extremely hungry.

Sinclair will wear the #7 shirt soon I think :)

Saints not quite firing on all cylinders but still managed two wins.

Ithaca is a good team, and will cause people some trouble this year.
Same for Brockport. It seems they were unlucky not to not get a result at Clarkson.

How good is Clarkson?
Are they for real this year?

RPI also off to their normal good start.

Hobart seems to have stumbled, but have had bad starts over the past few seasons and bounced back well.

Bard with early results, but how good is their competition.
Ditto for Union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 03, 2016, 09:35:49 pm
A tough start at home for Skidmore against a strong Cortland side.  An opportunity to rebound follows in a few days...

Saint and stlawus--What's the scoop on the Dartmouth transfer?  Will he be playing this season?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 04, 2016, 03:23:32 am
A tough start at home for Skidmore against a strong Cortland side.  An opportunity to rebound follows in a few days...

Saint and stlawus--What's the scoop on the Dartmouth transfer?  Will he be playing this season?

As far as I'm aware there's no transfer from Dartmouth, unless you're referring to the transfer from the University of New Hampshire, Tanner Tomasi.  I assumed he would be eligible this year but I'm not quite certain, I think he might be sitting out the season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 05, 2016, 03:28:04 pm
Hobart played well v. Dickinson but struggled to put ball in net.  An excuse, not a reason, may be that several Friday starters had limited playing due to minor injuries picked up via Elizabethtown. Credit to Dickinson for finding a way to get a result.

Elizabethtown and their #2 (Waso -- who deserves the all-american accolades) will be very tough this year.  Waso is VERY crafty and with a burst of speed that does not get seen much on D3 pitches. They press and are committed to ball and approach.  And, they are fine with lots of contact. This noted, until last 15 minutes (when Hobart subbed off defenders to get more into attack and that did not go well) Hobart possessed, but did ... not ... score. This may get reported a few more times.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2016, 12:01:57 am
Seems like a heartbreaking loss for Clarkson today losing in 2OT to Plattsburgh. They are 2-1-0 against solid competition but 2-0-1 would have been much sweeter. Seems like a good young coaching staff up there is getting this program heading in the right direction.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2016, 12:09:44 am
Most disappointing team in the East region so far is Hobart. Losing to a "Football" school who could care one sniff about soccer, St. John Fischer 3-1 in Hobart's home opener is disappointing to say the least. 0-2-1 after 3 is tough and they are going to have to reel off a 5 to 6 game win streak to get back into the conversation.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 07, 2016, 10:43:40 pm
As far as I'm aware there's no transfer from Dartmouth, unless you're referring to the transfer from the University of New Hampshire, Tanner Tomasi.  I assumed he would be eligible this year but I'm not quite certain, I think he might be sitting out the season.

Yes, that's exactly who I was referring to (sorry about the brain fart regarding his previous institution--I'll chalk it up to "roster perusal fatigue").  Thanks for the scoop.  He didn't play in his first year at UNH and wasn't on the roster last year, so I would think that he'll have a ton of eligibility left.  He was listed on the Saints' roster when the season started, but seems to have been deleted shortly thereafter. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2016, 03:33:52 pm
RPI loses to Manhattanville 1-0 on a last minute goal. RPI sits at 1-1-1 after 3 games against weak competition. They should really have looked to and expected to win those first 3 games. They look like they are struggling to score as usual and have some really tough games coming up. This could be a down year for them. I still cannot believe they got into the NCAA's over Hobart last year. Mind boggling.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2016, 05:44:11 pm
Clarkson hanging tough with Geneseo St...0-0 10 minutes left. I have been tuning in and out but a fairly even game...Both teams hoofin a bit but both teams are going to be a tough out this year. Fairly even game
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on September 09, 2016, 05:55:56 pm
Potential important gauge of strength tomorrow for both teams, when Union plays a strong UMass-Boston side on neutral turf at MCLA.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2016, 05:58:35 pm
WOW....Clarkson scores off a set piece to go up 1-0 with 2 minutes left. They faked it and everyone moved then re-hit it right away and Geneseo St was caught flat footed. Nice flick in header to win the game by Clarkson and an interesting set piece that left Geneseo players stunned. They are now 3-1-0 and have some good wins. They will definitely be vying for that 3rd or 4th spot in LL playoffs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2016, 06:02:32 pm
Potential important gauge of strength tomorrow for both teams, when Union plays a strong UMass-Boston side on neutral turf at MCLA.



Excellent point. Both teams are 3-0-0 but have not really played quality opposition yet. This game will give us more of an idea about both teams. The winner should win the Sunday contest as well so 1 of the teams would be 5-0-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2016, 06:07:18 pm
1 more thing about Clarkson. They are really playing stingy defense giving up 1 goal in 4 games against 3 good SUNYAC schools and Ithaca . This program has had such a tough stretch the past 10 years, so it makes for a good story line.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 09, 2016, 07:06:38 pm
SLU up 1-0 less than a minute into the game against St. John Fisher.  Jevaughn Sinclair is wreaking absolute havoc on the right flank.  One of the fastest players I have ever seen wear the scarlet and brown.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 10, 2016, 03:50:15 pm
Crazy turn of events in the SLU-Geneseo game.  Geneseo went up 1-0 off a corner early in the 2nd half, and then with 17 minutes left SLU equalizes.  Less than a minute later SLU gets breakaway but is yanked down by the keeper who gets a red.  SLU converts the PK.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 10, 2016, 04:12:01 pm
Final in Geneseo is SLU 4, Geneseo 1.  Toshack rested a few key players last night against St. John Fisher and it paid off today.  All 4 goals coming in the last 17 minutes by players that didn't play last night. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 11, 2016, 08:58:58 pm
So after three weekends, two undefeated LL teams--SLU and Vassar.  Both teams are doing it with defense and well-balanced scoring, as well as demonstrating an ability to come from behind.  For SLU this is no surprise.  Vassar has plugged a bunch of holes with some excellent new talent.  Neither has played a particularly difficult schedule, and the Plattsburg and Oneonta games this week will tell more about the teams and the likelihood that they remain at the top of the table at the end of the league season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 12, 2016, 02:55:01 pm
Vassar and SLU seem set for the LL playoff.
I might need to revise my prediction for the league finishes after the weekend if Clarkson continues their good play.

Disappointing so far from Hobart and Skidmore, but I still feel like they will be fighting for a spot in the end.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2016, 12:11:58 pm
Big Big win for Hobart to get off the mark with a good come from behind win over Potsdam Bears. Potsdam is very impressive and will have a good year despite suffering their forst loss.

Oneonta dealt with RPI.
RPI will rebound, I still see them making the league championship.

Clarkson loses to a VERY GOOD Cortland side, and perhaps will now come back to earth a bit.

They have a good keeper, and I might have to re-evaluate leaving them off the league playoffs in early season prediction.
They will atleast be on the bubble, perhaps taking up a spot traditionally belonging to Skidmore.

Game of the week has to be Cortland v. SLU on Saturday.
Should be a very even game, maybe for top spot in the East come next standings.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 16, 2016, 04:56:11 pm
SLU and Oswego 0-0 at the half on what appears to be a beautiful afternoon in Canton, NY.  A few chances for both sides. The Saints seem to be resting a bunch of starters (Augustine, Bunton, Suitor, etc.) in anticipation of tomorrow's tilt with Cortland.  SLU had a couple of shaky passes in back, but Oswego could not capitalize.  I look for SLU to flip the switch and get it going in the second half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2016, 05:52:20 pm
Very late PK conversion for SLU with 2 minutes left.  Oswego had a great chance with a minute left but Schierbeek came up big with a save on a corner.  As mentioned above, Tosh rested a lot of starters.  This strategy paid off last weekend as well.  Rather grind out an ugly win early in the season in exchange for a deep, well rested bench come playoff time.  Should be a great game tomorrow!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 18, 2016, 09:43:41 am
Am worried that LL teams are playing themselves into one dance spot--again.  SLU is consistent, not winning big but winning is enough.  Hobart, RPI and Skidmore have all floundered and unless they get the AQ are pretty much done.  Clarkson has lost a couple heartbreakers that also take them out of at-large contention.  Vassar came back to the pack giving up 4 in the second half of what could have been a defining tilt against Oneonta.  Yes Bard is undefeated but against what competition? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 18, 2016, 06:44:53 pm
Am worried that LL teams are playing themselves into one dance spot--again. 

I could not agree more with your assessment, deutschfan.  After perusing the results yesterday, I was left with the same impression.  I think that as is often the case, the only way that the LL will get two teams in the NCAA tournament is if a team other than SLU wins the league tournament.  At this point, I think the chances of that happening are far less than 50%.

On a related matter, Hobart pulled out a hard-earned 2-2 tie with Geneseo after going a man down on a red card and a goal down shortly thereafter.  The Statesmen actually rallied to take a 2-1 lead after falling in a 1-0 hole, but were not able to prevent their full-sided opponent from equalizing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 19, 2016, 06:49:39 am
SLU and Oswego 0-0 at the half on what appears to be a beautiful afternoon in Canton, NY.  A few chances for both sides. The Saints seem to be resting a bunch of starters (Augustine, Bunton, Suitor, etc.) in anticipation of tomorrow's tilt with Cortland.  SLU had a couple of shaky passes in back, but Oswego could not capitalize.  I look for SLU to flip the switch and get it going in the second half.


I just do not agree with this approach by SLU's coach. You never rest starters before the game begins against anyone. That alone is sending a message to your team that you are playing a weak opponent and they might as well take the day off. Always start your starters and let them get a quick lead then you REST them. I believe he got burned doing this last year as well and he will get burned again doing it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 19, 2016, 10:11:43 am
SLU and Oswego 0-0 at the half on what appears to be a beautiful afternoon in Canton, NY.  A few chances for both sides. The Saints seem to be resting a bunch of starters (Augustine, Bunton, Suitor, etc.) in anticipation of tomorrow's tilt with Cortland.  SLU had a couple of shaky passes in back, but Oswego could not capitalize.  I look for SLU to flip the switch and get it going in the second half.


I just do not agree with this approach by SLU's coach. You never rest starters before the game begins against anyone. That alone is sending a message to your team that you are playing a weak opponent and they might as well take the day off. Always start your starters and let them get a quick lead then you REST them. I believe he got burned doing this last year as well and he will get burned again doing it.

Normally I would agree, as I felt the same last year.  But in recent years SLU has been bitten by the injury bug pretty hard.  The last 3 seasons have seen players drop like flies.  I think this approach is two fold: keep players fresh for conference play and also reduce risk of injury come tournament time.  Last year Ryan Grant went down early in the season and didn't return until half way through.  Dede suffered an injury in the LL tourney and was largely ineffective throughout the NCAA tournament.  Let's also not forget that 2014's leading scorer, Rob Brandell, missed the entire season due to a broken leg. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on September 19, 2016, 11:39:55 am
SLU and Oswego 0-0 at the half on what appears to be a beautiful afternoon in Canton, NY.  A few chances for both sides. The Saints seem to be resting a bunch of starters (Augustine, Bunton, Suitor, etc.) in anticipation of tomorrow's tilt with Cortland.  SLU had a couple of shaky passes in back, but Oswego could not capitalize.  I look for SLU to flip the switch and get it going in the second half.


I just do not agree with this approach by SLU's coach. You never rest starters before the game begins against anyone. That alone is sending a message to your team that you are playing a weak opponent and they might as well take the day off. Always start your starters and let them get a quick lead then you REST them. I believe he got burned doing this last year as well and he will get burned again doing it.

Normally I would agree, as I felt the same last year.  But in recent years SLU has been bitten by the injury bug pretty hard.  The last 3 seasons have seen players drop like flies.  I think this approach is two fold: keep players fresh for conference play and also reduce risk of injury come tournament time.  Last year Ryan Grant went down early in the season and didn't return until half way through.  Dede suffered an injury in the LL tourney and was largely ineffective throughout the NCAA tournament.  Let's also not forget that 2014's leading scorer, Rob Brandell, missed the entire season due to a broken leg.

Or way back in 2011 when 3 of our starting forwards had torn ACLs. Or in 2012 when DeMello got an injury which left him out of the NCAAs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 19, 2016, 11:44:42 am
In Coach Tosh we trust :)

I do understand the frustration of not playing your "starters".
I think that in order to win a championship in this day and age, and maybe forever, a team needs close to 20 starters.
Each and every person on a roster must be able to contribute at a high level to be very successful at this level.

I do think the goal of the Saints is one thing only:
Win the Conference and then go from there.
If this is in the back of your head you play the season very differently.

Added bonus is a team is more difficult to scout if personnel can interchange at the discretion of the Coach.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 19, 2016, 02:10:03 pm
It is hard to get data on injuries and players across D3 in order to get a sense of the prevalence.
I'm familiar with https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/NCAA_M_Soccer_Injuries_WEB.pdf (and other sources like http://www.drdavidgeier.com/mens-soccer-injuries-ncaa/ and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3418955/).

These make it seem as if injuries are relatively rare (if there are ~8 injuries per 1000, and the average soccer squad has 33 people rostered, that would be one injury on every fourth team, or one major injury every four years per team). The data from St. Lawrence reported here would be much greater than the national average.  But it also resonates with what I'm seeing.
 
For the past decade we've been working with several dozen kids heading into college soccer. With many now graduated and others entering or in the midst of their college careers, my observation is that the prevalence of injury is higher than reported (every one of the kids we have helped has missed playing time with an injury, most from in-game events).  Using data from four teams where I have the most familiarity, they are averaging six injuries each season (concussions, lower-leg (knee/ankle) and some arm and shoulder damage (from falling or being tangled up).  On each of the teams, at least two kids each year seem to be missing most or all of the season for these injuries. 

it _seems_ that many of the private colleges are carrying larger rosters (in the low-to-mid 30's) than a decade back (when I first started paying more attention, and team sizes were high 20's up to 30). Not sure if this is a trend, or just that I am fitting facts to my belief system. But, one reason for doing so is to accommodate more injuries.

I saw posted in another thread (believe it was the National Perspective) an analysis of yellow and red cards earned by various teams, with the implication that aggressive behavior is on the rise (and cards are a proxy for this) -- and that it may be helping teams to win.  Readers on this thread are no stranger to the level of contact in both LL and SUNYAC games (and even more when the game brings together both an LL and a SUNYAC team).  Increased aggression is related to more contact (and more chances to be injured)....

Given the competitive nature of the LL (and SUNYAC), and that injuries are twice as likely to occur in games, it may be prudent to limit the potential for damage.  So, I'd be ok with coaches protecting players even as they build bench depth (and make it harder to be scouted).
Not so much a commentary on the opponent as a commentary on the changing nature of the game.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on September 19, 2016, 03:09:38 pm
It is hard to get data on injuries and players across D3 in order to get a sense of the prevalence.
I'm familiar with https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/NCAA_M_Soccer_Injuries_WEB.pdf (and other sources like http://www.drdavidgeier.com/mens-soccer-injuries-ncaa/ and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3418955/).

These make it seem as if injuries are relatively rare (if there are ~8 injuries per 1000, and the average soccer squad has 33 people rostered, that would be one injury on every fourth team, or one major injury every four years per team). The data from St. Lawrence reported here would be much greater than the national average.  But it also resonates with what I'm seeing.
 
For the past decade we've been working with several dozen kids heading into college soccer. With many now graduated and others entering or in the midst of their college careers, my observation is that the prevalence of injury is higher than reported (every one of the kids we have helped has missed playing time with an injury, most from in-game events).  Using data from four teams where I have the most familiarity, they are averaging six injuries each season (concussions, lower-leg (knee/ankle) and some arm and shoulder damage (from falling or being tangled up).  On each of the teams, at least two kids each year seem to be missing most or all of the season for these injuries. 

it _seems_ that many of the private colleges are carrying larger rosters (in the low-to-mid 30's) than a decade back (when I first started paying more attention, and team sizes were high 20's up to 30). Not sure if this is a trend, or just that I am fitting facts to my belief system. But, one reason for doing so is to accommodate more injuries.

I saw posted in another thread (believe it was the National Perspective) an analysis of yellow and red cards earned by various teams, with the implication that aggressive behavior is on the rise (and cards are a proxy for this) -- and that it may be helping teams to win.  Readers on this thread are no stranger to the level of contact in both LL and SUNYAC games (and even more when the game brings together both an LL and a SUNYAC team).  Increased aggression is related to more contact (and more chances to be injured)....

Given the competitive nature of the LL (and SUNYAC), and that injuries are twice as likely to occur in games, it may be prudent to limit the potential for damage.  So, I'd be ok with coaches protecting players even as they build bench depth (and make it harder to be scouted).
Not so much a commentary on the opponent as a commentary on the changing nature of the game.

College soccer is not quite the NFL, but every player who gets regular playing time gets injured during the season.  For some, that means only requiring treatment (as opposed to missing playing time), but injuries are a fact of life.

Other factors that you have not considered to explain larger roster sizes are (i) the elimination of JV or Freshman teams; and (ii) the desire to have at least 22 players present every day at practice (due to class and laboratory obligations).  With respect to the loss of JV or Freshman programs, coaches naturally will keep larger rosters, so as not to preclude the continued development of younger players who might otherwise miss an entire season or cease playing competitively altogether if varsity rosters were limited to 22-25 players.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 20, 2016, 08:48:28 pm
SLU-Plattsburgh tied up at 1 with 15 minutes left.  What an absolutely awful 2nd half by SLU, wow.  Plattsburgh is playing great, but man, SLU just keeps giving the ball away and have awful first touches.  Entertaining game thus far.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 20, 2016, 09:25:23 pm
What a finish to SLU-Plattsburgh.  Less than a minute left in the 1st OT and Dede buries the game winner off a free kick.  SLU just finding ways to win games.  2 straight game winners for the reigning LL ROY.  Plattsburgh played a great 2nd half.  Had SLU rattled and forced a lot of give aways. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 20, 2016, 11:20:06 pm
I checked out the game a couple of times on Live Stats, once at the half and once near the end of regulation.  It was certainly a tale of two halves statistically, with almost complete domination by SLU in the first half and nearly a mirror image opposite in the second half (presumably driven by Plattsburgh upping their game and SLU making the mistakes stlawus alluded to).  SLU is doing a great job winning the close games and the season is shaping up as a potentially special one, even by SLU's lofty standards.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on September 21, 2016, 09:27:42 am
SLU-Plattsburgh has NCAA 2nd round @SLU written all over it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 21, 2016, 11:05:46 am
Plattsburgh will have to beat Cortland or Oneonta to get a Pool C. They NEEDED that draw yesterday. Their SOS will be weak at best and wins against ranked will be 0 w/o beating either of those 2 teams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 23, 2016, 05:41:08 pm
Oneonta just spanked Cortland.  Weekend predictions:  SLU 2, Hob 0; Vas 1, Skid 0; Bard 1, Union 1; Clarkson 1, RIT 0.  As noted in earlier posts, RPI, Hob, and Skid are the three most disappointing teams as most of us had them in the LL playoffs with SLU.  Hob doesn't need to beat SLU to make the LL playoffs so this is a match for Hob to regain some respect.  Skid's season likely rises or falls on this home game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 24, 2016, 11:40:02 am
Oneonta just spanked Cortland.  Weekend predictions:  SLU 2, Hob 0; Vas 1, Skid 0; Bard 1, Union 1; Clarkson 1, RIT 0.  As noted in earlier posts, RPI, Hob, and Skid are the three most disappointing teams as most of us had them in the LL playoffs with SLU.  Hob doesn't need to beat SLU to make the LL playoffs so this is a match for Hob to regain some respect.  Skid's season likely rises or falls on this home game.

That's a great set of picks, deutschfan! I think Union might get by Bard (2-1?) and Skidmore might be able to salvage a draw at home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 24, 2016, 03:43:34 pm
Hobart goes up 1-0 at the end of the first half.  SLU looks absolutely atrocious.  One of the worst halves of soccer I've seen them play in the last few years. I knew Hobart's record was misleading, they're always a threat against SLU in conference play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 24, 2016, 04:54:43 pm
What an absolutely awful game by SLU.  Hobart just delivered this team a swift kick in the unmentionables.  It looks like the Statesmen have turned their season around.  I'm not "panicking" by any means but this SLU team needs to go back to basics.  The last few games have seen a plethora of misplayed passes, heavy first touches and extremely poor finishing.  I fear this team's continuous lack of a definitive #9 may come back to haunt this team down the road.  The program still hasn't replaced Gilloran. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 24, 2016, 10:47:11 pm
Yea I saw Hobart quite a bit last year and was surprised at their shaky start to the season. They have talent all over that roster, maybe they did not come back fit but I fully expect them to be right there at the end of the season. I am more concerned with RPI and Skidmore. RPI is so offensively challenged this year and Skidmore I have not seen yet but last year I really liked their athleticism and spine. Not sure if they have injuries or what but I was expecting a better start to the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 25, 2016, 12:06:17 am
I caught a good bit of the Skidmore game.  Anchored by Oyeniyi, the back line is stout.  In the midfield going forward, Okoye is a threat to make something happen every time he gets the ball. He can only do so much on his own, though. Their trip to Western NY next week will play a big part in deciding the team's fate for the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 25, 2016, 12:10:58 am
I caught a good bit of the Skidmore game.  Anchored by Oyeniyi, the back line is stout.  In the midfield going forward, Okoye is a threat to make something happen every time he gets the ball. He can only do so much on his own, though. Their trip to Western NY next week will play a big part in deciding the team's fate for the season.


Yes...those 2 players are studs and would start on any team. So the pieces around them have dropped off? Skidmore can be a challenge to recruit to, especially if you are not getting any help from admissions.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 25, 2016, 12:19:43 am
Skidmore's leading assist-maker Santos was out today for some reason, and no one other than Okoye looked too dangerous on attack.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 25, 2016, 09:56:02 am
Watched the Hobart @SLU game and was impressed with how SLU allowed a very depleted Hobart (five starters either limited or unable to play due to injury) dictate the game. Hobart packing it in behind the ball (essentially a 4-5-1) closed off the lanes and runs for SLU's great attaching threats, and then made visible some seams in SLU's defense during counters (four runs in first 30 minutes all led to shots or a goal). Despite monumental pressure by SLU in second half, Hobart outshot SLU. Would imagine that SLU sees such an approach more often, going forward.

Watched a bit of RPI draw Rochester at home (nice video stream!):  more packed in play by RPI.  Having seen Rochester come back from a goal down v. Hobart (with some impressive tackling, very physical play and strong attacking), kudos to Adam Clinton and RPI for staving off that attack and finding a result.

Having now seen Hobart play away at Elizabethtown, Rochester and now SLU, Rochester is easily the most complete team.  E-town can attack (fun to watch) and foul smartly on defense (not fun to watch).  SLU, well, it may not have been the best day to get a sense of them in person. I am very impressed by Rochester.  Rochester can be beat as back line is strong and large, but not fast enough to overcome good wing play.

Curious that both Clarkson/RIT and Skidmore/Vassar ended in draws (and a very organized Bard made it a game at Union).  Perhaps, over past several years, the speed and creativity of SLU's attack seems to have forced other LL teams to be a bit more defensive? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 25, 2016, 12:21:01 pm
Yes, the rest of the league really packs it in against SLU with the exception of a few games a year.  Last year Hobart didn't pack it in, and won.  This year, they did and still won.  Their coach just knows how to form a game plan.  SLU has one of the fastest teams I've ever seen play on Sandy, but they still haven't really put it all together.  There were questions about the back line this year since 2 of the program's best defenders graduated.  Questions still remain, clearly.  Hobart has speed as well, along with a good GK.  I expect to see them in the LL playoff, most likely the final. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 25, 2016, 08:21:10 pm
Big big win for the Statesmen.
I only saw about 20 minutes of the game, but from what I saw they deserved to win.

SLU needs a finisher to step up.
Could be #12/14 or 22 or at this point anyone, but an assertive get the ball in goal player is required.
Besides that, no need to panic, when this train begins to run right it will go far.

Union is in a great spot.
With 2 ties in the league it is really a leg up.

Bard will shock people this year.

We will know a lot more about how the league is going after this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 30, 2016, 01:00:47 pm
Today's Predictions:

SLU v Bard-----SLU just to much for Bard to handle...3-0 SLU

Clarkson v Vassar------This is a HUGE game for both teams to get into the top 4..Clarkson has cooled off but in the 1 game I watched Vassar I was not comopletely sold.....1-1 Draw

Hobart v Skidmore---Another monster game and a big rematch from last year. I think both teams have some serious athletes but Skidmore does not have enough solid role players around their top players. Hobart 2-1

RIT v RPI-------I have been really unimpressed with RPI this year...They are absolutely anemic up front and just cannot get goals from their midfield like they usually do. I have not seen RIT at all this year but I know enough about RPI to say they will get shutout..Can RIT score 1 goal to win it? Yes....RIT 1-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 30, 2016, 03:14:17 pm
A nice slate of afternoon games on tap for the first LL double-header weekend. I'll play the low field in my predictions for today:

SLU 2-0 over Bard

RPI ties RIT 0-0

Clarkson over Vassar 1-0

Hobart ties Skidmore 0-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on September 30, 2016, 04:50:42 pm
SLU all over Bard, but only creating 1-2 chances. An early goal in this second half would suit them well.  Starting to wonder if all this rotation is causing continuity issues?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 30, 2016, 05:01:00 pm
Not sure if it's doing that, big problem right now is simply finishing.  They should be burying some of these easy chances. Build up play is there, but no end product.  Finishing is criminal.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 30, 2016, 06:05:11 pm
No matter what happens by the end of OT between SLU and Bard, this game again highlights SLU's dire need for a proper striker.  Augustine blasts everything 20 yards over the cross bar.  Very poor from this team, I expect much more.  Bard holding their own for sure, but woeful end product from SLU. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 30, 2016, 06:13:58 pm
SLU prevails 1-0 in 2OT. Crouse heads in a Barral-Arteta corner.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 30, 2016, 06:43:33 pm
Hobart and Skidmore battled to a 0-0 draw, RIT bested RPI 2-1, and Vassar edged Clarkson 2-1.

There are sure to be some heavy legs tomorrow and roster depth will be tested.

With today's results in mind, here's how things might shake out tomorrow:

SLU comes out with ferocity and grabs a 3-1 victory over Vassar.

Perturbed by a home loss, Clarkson defeats a weary Bard 2-1.

Skidmore and RIT battle to a 1-1 draw.

Looking to claim a result from their journey to Western NY, RPI falls 1-0 to Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 30, 2016, 11:45:57 pm
SLU better start finishing because if Vassar beats them tomorrow and they do not win the conference and have say 4 losses by November they might have a Pool C issue. Their SOS will not be quite as strong as in years past and their record v ranked will not be spectacular. Vassar should be regionally ranked and possibly Plattsburgh but who else? Cortland did not impress me against Oneonta and SLU did not play Oneonta or their usual Rochester game which could come back to bite them. They NEED to beat Vassar tomorrow as it will be mighty important in November but if you look at SLU's schedule it is not as impressive as years past  IMO
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 01, 2016, 12:46:12 pm
All my picks were wrong last week but I am going to get back on the horse so to speak, at least for one game SLU v. Vassar.  Final--Vassar 2, SLU 1.  Vassar has come back in both of the LL games they played and don't give up.  They outshot Skidmore and Clarkson, two excellent defensive teams, by significant margins.  Vassar won last year, tied the year before, and will not be intimidated in the least.  SLU's advantage is depth, and greater skill in the midfield, but Vassar has been scoring, something that SLU has had major difficulty doing in their first two league games.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 01, 2016, 12:53:28 pm
All my picks were wrong last week but I am going to get back on the horse so to speak, at least for one game SLU v. Vassar.  Final--Vassar 2, SLU 1.  Vassar has come back in both of the LL games they played and don't give up.  They outshot Skidmore and Clarkson, two excellent defensive teams, by significant margins.  Vassar won last year, tied the year before, and will not be intimidated in the least.  SLU's advantage is depth, and greater skill in the midfield, but Vassar has been scoring, something that SLU has had major difficulty doing in their first two league games.


Well if you are correct, I will stand by my statement that SLU would be on thin ice for a Pool C. I just would not see any wins against Regionally ranked teams.  The rest of the LL besides Vassar will not be regionally ranked in November IMO
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 01, 2016, 02:26:19 pm
All my picks were wrong last week but I am going to get back on the horse so to speak, at least for one game SLU v. Vassar.  Final--Vassar 2, SLU 1.  Vassar has come back in both of the LL games they played and don't give up.  They outshot Skidmore and Clarkson, two excellent defensive teams, by significant margins.  Vassar won last year, tied the year before, and will not be intimidated in the least.  SLU's advantage is depth, and greater skill in the midfield, but Vassar has been scoring, something that SLU has had major difficulty doing in their first two league games.


Well if you are correct, I will stand by my statement that SLU would be on thin ice for a Pool C. I just would not see any wins against Regionally ranked teams.  The rest of the LL besides Vassar will not be regionally ranked in November IMO

Well Mr. Right perhaps Coach Tosh has been reading our posts on here because Brendan McNamee just scored a half volley laser to put SLU up early in the 1st half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 01, 2016, 04:05:05 pm
Weekend sweep for the Saints with two 1-0 wins.  Coach Tosh got ejected today, and was an all around chippy game.  Vassar has some talent up front.  If they won against Oneonta they might have had an outside shot at pool C. 

Skidmore had an impressive 2-0 win against RIT, the same goes for Clarkson against Bard. 

RPI shocks Hobart 2-0 in Geneva.  Can say that I did not expect that result.  Pretty even LL this year, going to be an exciting month of October. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 03, 2016, 03:30:49 pm
Weekend sweep for the Saints with two 1-0 wins.  Coach Tosh got ejected today, and was an all around chippy game.  Vassar has some talent up front.  If they won against Oneonta they might have had an outside shot at pool C. 

Skidmore had an impressive 2-0 win against RIT, the same goes for Clarkson against Bard. 

RPI shocks Hobart 2-0 in Geneva.  Can say that I did not expect that result.  Pretty even LL this year, going to be an exciting month of October.

Hobart played second half of RPI game with 10 men (center back earned a red card with 12 seconds left in first half). Until then, Hobart ascendant.  After that, Hobart chasing.

If you like defense, make sure to see the Skidmore/RPI game -- two teams who counter well and are solid on defense. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 04, 2016, 10:14:00 am
Even with Hobart having 10 men for a half I am shocked RPI got 2 goals even with Hobart pushing men forward. RPI has really been anemic offensively this year and even with the win I do not see them in the Top 4.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 04, 2016, 12:39:22 pm
RPI will be top 4.
They are a strange team.
They tend to always win games they must win.

I would not be surprised if any of 8 teams make it to the top 4 though...
At this point:
SLU
Union
Vassar
Clarkson
RPI
RIT
Hobart
Skidmore
All still have a legitimate shot at top 4.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 04, 2016, 02:18:22 pm
RPI will be top 4.
They are a strange team.
They tend to always win games they must win.

I would not be surprised if any of 8 teams make it to the top 4 though...
At this point:
SLU
Union
Vassar
Clarkson
RPI
RIT
Hobart
Skidmore
All still have a legitimate shot at top 4.

Agreed.  I'm still not sure of Clarkson or RIT but after SLU I think its pretty much all about match-ups, mistakes and situations. This weekend's slate of games will provide some clarity.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 05, 2016, 10:42:05 am
Not so sure on SLU based on the past few weeks. They'll be tested in a big way this weekend down on the turf at Skidmore.  The team has never played well there, and any wins they've gotten over the past 6-8 years have been close calls. If SLU starts off their 4 game road trip with a W against the #2 team, I like their chances to take home the regular season title.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 06, 2016, 11:20:02 pm
RPI will be top 4.
They are a strange team.
They tend to always win games they must win.

I would not be surprised if any of 8 teams make it to the top 4 though...
At this point:
SLU
Union
Vassar
Clarkson
RPI
RIT
Hobart
Skidmore
All still have a legitimate shot at top 4.




I realize RPI and Adam Clinton in years past have over-achieved but 2016 RPI IMO is not the same type of team. I have watched them play 3 times this year and frankly they are not very good. Against better teams they have NOTHING going forward and even against lesser competition they cannot score goals. As usual, Adam Clinton sides are very organized defensively and work very hard and do all the little things but this years side is missing what RPI usually has. A creative central midfielder who can spray the ball around, someone resembling a striker that is above average in his finishing ability and very good GK'ing. I just do not see any of those 3 things in this RPI side. I will bet my house that they are NOT A TOP 4 SIDE in LL this year. In fact based on current results I am guessing that the LL Playoffs will resemble last years.

1. SLU
2. Skidmore
3. Hobart
4. Union / Vassar Winner

RIT and Clarkson IMO have harder schedules remaining but they could sneak into the 4th spot. If Skidmore gets a result this wknd against SLU they will have #2 locked up and possibly #1.

We will see....

Saturday Predictions:

Skidmore v SLU-----Skidmore has the athletes to keep up and they are usually capable of playing tenaciously on defense but I have not seen them play this year so I have no idea what they have in net. They have had a roller coaster season so far but in the Adam Beek days Skidmore would play their best against SLU and Williams. They will be up for this game but I say SLU 2-1

Hobart v Clarkson-----I still say Hobart is under achieving this season. It seems like all thru Shawn Griffin's tenure Hobart is under-achieving which is strange to me because when he was at Plymouth St his teams were always OVER-Achieving. They were always tough to play in the NCAA's especially at home and since he left Plymouth St they have been an outright disaster for a program that has some very good history in New England. Anyhow...Hobart 2-0

Vassar v RPI----Personally, I do not rate either of these teams but Vassar is better. Vassar 1-0

Union v RIT-----winner of this gane is in good shape for contention in the Top 4, loser will be in a hole..Tough to predict a LL wknd without 1 draw but what the hell...RIT 1-0

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 08, 2016, 12:22:10 pm
Haven't picked one right yet but even a blind squirrel.  Generally the Liberty League teams are mired in mediocrity this year.  New Paltz over Union and Elmira over Skidmore are cases in point.  I picked Vassar over SLU last weekend and despite the final outcome that was a very, very close contest.  Instead of picking games this week I am picking the winner of the LL regular season--the Vassar Brewers who happened to crush Elmira.  They have demonstrated the most consistent offensive attack and but for Bard, all of their remaining LL games are at home where they have not lost this year.  If RPI beats them today then never mind, but if Mr. Right is right, and RPI's offense is anemic, today should be the start of an undefeated LL string for Vassar til the playoffs. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 08, 2016, 03:52:45 pm
Disgraceful officiating in the SLU-Skidmore game.  Absolutely disgraceful.  PK called for SLU and just as Bunton steps up to take the kick the refs call it back for reasons I have absolutely no idea.  Shameful.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 08, 2016, 04:28:51 pm
Looks like Skidmore's on their way to a win over SLU.  Goalkeeping error from SLU makes it 2-0.  Skidmore is very disciplined in the back.  LL is up for grabs this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 08, 2016, 05:45:49 pm
Was Skidmore down a man the whole 2nd Half? Box score say's same player on Skidmore got 2 yellows?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 08, 2016, 05:48:18 pm
Was there a fight at the end of the Hobart / Clarkson game as a Clarkson kid got a straight red right when the game ended in OT?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 08, 2016, 07:44:35 pm
Was there a fight at the end of the Hobart / Clarkson game as a Clarkson kid got a straight red right when the game ended in OT?

I believe it was a second yellow in game to the Clarkson player protesting the Hobart score, cursing at ref and acting out. Combined with a yellow from first half, out came the red. Clarkson coach apologized to refs (kudos to Clarkson coaching staff and several of the team leaders for getting a silly situation under control).

As an aside, my observation is that the AR missed the offside call in first half that allowed Clarkson to score, then missed the offside in overtime that allowed Hobart to score.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 08, 2016, 07:56:34 pm
Was there a fight at the end of the Hobart / Clarkson game as a Clarkson kid got a straight red right when the game ended in OT?

I believe it was a second yellow in game to the Clarkson player protesting the Hobart score, cursing at ref and acting out. Combined with a yellow from first half, out came the red. Clarkson coach apologized to refs (kudos to Clarkson coaching staff and several of the team leaders for getting a silly situation under control).

As an aside, my observation is that the AR missed the offside call in first half that allowed Clarkson to score, then missed the offside in overtime that allowed Hobart to score.

LOL so he misses to huge offsides calls and pockets $150 plus mileage for the game. Fantastic.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 12, 2016, 02:39:26 pm
Clarkson is likely done.
A bad weekend for SLU and things might be the same for them as well.

The RPI game is a must win, and RPI are always formidable at home (Won 2012 League Semi Final over SLU at home).

This is a very competitive year in the league with Union/Skidmore/Vassar and Hobart all looking determined to make the league tourney.
This weekend will tell us who is in or who's out, or atleast narrow down those still competing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 12, 2016, 02:49:39 pm
Clarkson is likely done.
A bad weekend for SLU and things might be the same for them as well.

The RPI game is a must win, and RPI are always formidable at home (Won 2012 League Semi Final over SLU at home).

This is a very competitive year in the league with Union/Skidmore/Vassar and Hobart all looking determined to make the league tourney.
This weekend will tell us who is in or who's out, or atleast narrow down those still competing.

If SLU miss, would it be the first time since 2009?  I was at the SLU-Union game that year, when Goss-Woliner was red-carded in the first 5 minutes of the game, and Union eventually won 1-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 12, 2016, 03:21:56 pm
It would be the first time since 2009.

2009 was the first and only ever time we missed the tourney as well.
Weird season that year.
I recall we started normally 7-1 (2) at one point then the bottom just fell out.

I think Tosh will right the ship, but the team has been dominated by top midfielders since 2010.
Its time the strikers step up and start scoring goals if SLU is planning on making a run this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 13, 2016, 10:35:50 am
I think Tosh will right the ship, but the team has been dominated by top midfielders since 2010.
Its time the strikers step up and start scoring goals if SLU is planning on making a run this year.

Quite true about needing strikers to step up!  But then again, there aren't too many Brendan Gormans or Sebastiaan Jansens playing D-3 soccer!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 13, 2016, 11:01:59 am
Big Weekend in the LL with every team playing 2 games except Skidmore who has the weekend off. Skidmore has a LOCK on winning the Title this year and hosting. They will have 4 games left against Bard, Clarkson, RPI and Union. They have all the tiebreakers in their favor especially with SLU. I caught Skidmore against Williams on Tuesday for the 1st time this year and came away impressed. With Okoye, Oyeniyi and Santos they have 3 players that would start for any team in the country IMO. They are extremely organized defensively and have a decent GK in net.  I did not realize Santos was injured to start the year which most likely is the reason for the slow start to the season. Had they beaten Cortland, Plattsburgh and Baruch to start the season they would be 8-1-3 with a Pool C bid likely and really they could be 9-0-3 had they beaten Elmira. I know they are a better team than all of those schools as I have seen Cortland and Plattsburgh play. It's unfortunate that Skidmore never got to taste the NCAA"s in Adam Beek's tenure but this is their chance to qualify this year by winning the LL Title.

SLU should sweep the weekend at Union and RPI which would put some added pressure on Skidmore to get the wins they need to get to host. The Vassar v Hobart game on Saturday could determine 2nd / 3rd place. Clarkson and RIT absolutely need to sweep the weekend if they have any hopes of getting into the Top 4. I think Union needs to beat Clarkson on Saturday or they will not get 4th place. I still say it will finish like this:

1. Skidmore
2. Hobart
3. SLU
4. Vassar
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 13, 2016, 01:16:54 pm
Cannot argue with solid reasoning backed up by facts!!

True that strikers like  Jansen (Union) and Gorman (SLU)only come about once per generation.
The Union v. SLU matchup would have much more fireworks this weekend for sure.
Ofcoarse were Adam Beek still playing Skidmore could well claim the league title now as well.

Perhaps the lack of clinical strikers lately is a league wide not just SLU issue.

I agree Mr. Right it seems like St. Lawrence's 3 year run of being League/Tourney champs might come to an end this season, but this is such a competitive league I think in the long run that might not be a bad thing.

This is a league that deserves at least 2  dance berths per year (As does SUNYAC I think).

This weekend might decide whos in and who is out.

I see Union/Vassar/Skidmore/Hobart all making it in this year... I also see SLU in the mix...
4 spots 5 teams, this is why we love October soccer in D3.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 13, 2016, 10:46:15 pm
I agree with most of the above points.  I think SLU rights the ship this weekend, but I don't think they'll have enough to be LL hosts.  Skidmore and Hobart won the battle of the match ups, and Hobart have had some guys out due to injury.  I still can't put my finger on Union.  Don't feel like I can make an honest assessment on them yet.  Their record looks impressive at first glance but they have an extremely soft OOC schedule.

I will say, I thought SLU was dead in the water as far as winning the league last year.  They rattled off 4 straight shut outs to win the league.  This team always finds a way to make it interesting in the end.  Obviously I want to see them pull off 4 straight regular season titles, but I have to be honest and say I don't mind seeing some parity in the league.  I love our league, and I will never be upset with it getting more national attention.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2016, 11:34:20 am
I don't want to commit sacrilege but Skidmore is not winning the Liberty League automatic bid or getting a NCAA at large tournament berth.  They lost to ELMIRA, a mediocre team at best who was thoroughly dominated by Vassar.  They were outshot by large margins in the SLU and Vassar games.  They do have the easiest remaining schedule but they will not survive the playoffs.  If SLU wasn't the gang that couldn't shoot straight (see Skidmore and Bard games for example) I would be picking them to win it all.  However, as everyone has observed their offense has been anemic, especially production from their up top players.  Thus I am still sticking with my Vassar pick.  With Hobart and Union at home Vassar will be playing at home in the LL playoffs.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 14, 2016, 02:52:45 pm
Agreeing with deutschfan on Skidmore. Skidmore fields three great players, are very well organized, and play with heart.  Not going to carry them outside of conference playoffs.  Increasingly thinking Vassar/SLU -- and Vassar's more creative attack seems to be the difference. If Hobart or RIT holds Vassar to a tie (or, egads, beats Vassar) this weekend, then I'll shift away from Vassar, but stay with SLU for finals. 

My thinking is that it is unlikely anyone from LL advances to NCAAs other than the AQ. If the AQ is NOT SLU, that means they have (at least) three losses.  IF the AQ is SLU, then other teams that could be in finals have tossed out hairball losses.   Plus, a quick eyeball of Union, Vassar and Skidmore's schedules suggest to me their SOS/RPI are not strong enough to overcome the top three teams from SUNYAC - and Rochester (which is having a very good season). Hobart already has several losses to weak teams so they know it is win out or watch....

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 14, 2016, 02:57:08 pm
I don't want to commit sacrilege but Skidmore is not winning the Liberty League automatic bid or getting a NCAA at large tournament berth.  They lost to ELMIRA, a mediocre team at best who was thoroughly dominated by Vassar.  They were outshot by large margins in the SLU and Vassar games.  They do have the easiest remaining schedule but they will not survive the playoffs.  If SLU wasn't the gang that couldn't shoot straight (see Skidmore and Bard games for example) I would be picking them to win it all.  However, as everyone has observed their offense has been anemic, especially production from their up top players.  Thus I am still sticking with my Vassar pick.  With Hobart and Union at home Vassar will be playing at home in the LL playoffs.

 
If you read my full post you would have seen that I said IF Skidmore had Santos to start the year they might have beaten Cortland, Plattsburgh and Baruch. I have seen Cortland and Plattsburgh this year and believe Skidmore are a better team. They have a seriously talented spine and are extremely organized. Vassar does not have Skidmore's athleticism. I did SAY that Skidmore is a lock to win the league because of their remaining schedule and previous results which would give them all the tiebreakers. They could finish 2-1-1 or 2-0-2 and still win the league. I think Vassar has a real possibility for the #4 seed but I think they are in for a tough weekend against Hobart on Saturday and if RIT sits in today they might only come away with a draw. We shall see.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 14, 2016, 05:45:25 pm
Vassar up 1-0 over RIT with about 10 minutes left but 2nd Half RIT has been on the move trying to get the tying goal. Frankly, 2nd Half RIT looks the better more aggressive side and possessing the ball all the way up to the final 3rd very well. There biggest issue is THEY CANNOT FINISH. They have had 3-4 excellent chances to score and just cannot get composed and finish.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 14, 2016, 05:51:06 pm
Bard and Hobart headed to OT
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 14, 2016, 06:33:36 pm
Hobart beat Bard, 1-0, in second OT. Nice header.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2016, 06:41:33 pm
Nothing like a regular season game against Union to get SLU back on track again.  Only scored half as many goals as they did last year but SLU will take it. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 15, 2016, 02:50:08 pm
Another awful, awful game from SLU.  Horrific.  Nice goal off a volley from RPI, but SLU is just downright terrible.  Another game of toying with it too much in the back, criminal first touches and no vision going forward.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 15, 2016, 03:52:58 pm
Extreme panic time for SLU.  Terrible loss to RPI.  I have never seen a SLU team have a worse collective first touch than this one.  Unbelievably bad.  Misplayed passes all over the face, costly fouls killing momentum.  Lucky that Hobart and Vassar drew, or else this season outlook would look extremely grim.

Oh wait, I thought that Vassar Hobart game ended in a draw.  My mistake.  Didn't see the OT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 15, 2016, 04:51:18 pm
Hobart beat Vassar on a pk in overtime after going a man up in regulation.  It will be interesting to see what the support will be for a SLU pool C if they don't make the LL playoffs ala RPI last year.  I thought it was a debacle last year and my opinion this year will be no different. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 15, 2016, 05:13:48 pm
Hobart beat Vassar on a pk in overtime after going a man up in regulation.  It will be interesting to see what the support will be for a SLU pool C if they don't make the LL playoffs ala RPI last year.  I thought it was a debacle last year and my opinion this year will be no different.



There will be no Pool C for SLU. They will have to win the LL to get a bid. They will have only 1 ranked win(Cortland St) at the end of the day which will not be enough. I am a believer in the Liberty League and I know how tough the league can be but teams like Hobart and Skidmore did themselves no favors with their out of conference results. It is a definite 1 bid league and I know they deserve 2. SLU got unlucky by playing Brockport and Plattsburgh who had down years as usually those would be regionally ranked teams. This is where your schedule can kill you as SLU should have NEVER dropped Oneonta and UR.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 15, 2016, 05:30:46 pm
I agree.  I'm not sure why we dropped UR.  I'm pretty sure we've actually tried to keep them on the schedule but it wasn't agreed upon on the other end.  Haven't played Oneonta in years, and I'm not sure why.  I'd rather have them on the schedule over Oswego or Geneseo.  I didn't even see the OT between Vassar-Hobart, my mistake saying it ended in a draw.  One of the rare years where SLU will have to rely on other teams to sneak into the top 4. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 15, 2016, 07:46:42 pm
So when the first regional rankings come out this week are there any Liberty League teams ranked?  Last week NSCAA had SLU, Vassar and Union ranked in the top 10 in the East but no guarantee that the committee gives the East that many ranking slots.  Union drops 2 games, SLU and Vassar 1.  Hobart picks up 2 overtime wins but has an abysmal preseason record as Mr. Right notes. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 15, 2016, 08:17:39 pm
Well the East has gained 1 team this year so 8 teams will be regionally ranked. In no particular order the teams that will be regionally ranked IMO



SLU, Rochester, Oneonta, Cortland, Hobart, Vassar, Houghton and Stevens


So SLU would actually have 2 wins over Vassar and Cortland and 1 loss v Hobart.  2-1-0 is actually very respectable for Record V Ranked. If SLU won out and lost in the LL Final they actually would have a decent shot at  Pool C. Hobart and Vassar though would be near the bottom of the rankings so their Pool C hopes would not be as good. Hobart's SOS and OWP I would imagine to be pretty good though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 16, 2016, 05:12:23 am
Agreeing with Mr. Right on list of eight (and noting that Oneonta, Rochester and Cortland are step up from SLU/Stevens, then Hobart, Houghton, and Vassar).  Stevens keeps losing to top 15 teams, so likely they are fourth and SLU fifth. Hobart's upgraded SOS and OWP is offset by getting very few results from these. Vassar and Houghton have to earn the AQ to go on given their SOS/OWP.

Cortland and Hobart play on 18 October. A loss puts Hobart into AQ-only-trajectory for NCAAs.

Liberty league fans will appreciate the intensity and interesting matchup-results, but the rest of D3 might think of this as mediocrity?

Did not see Hobart coming back to beat Vassar, away and playing second OT game in 24 hours.
Climbing off the Vassar bandwagon (that I was about to get on...).
Staying with RPI as the toughest time to beat in Liberty League.
Pretty sure the 19 October game with Skidmore could go a long time before a score, given how both teams like to defend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 16, 2016, 06:10:40 am
Another topsy-turvy weekend in the LL!  Mr. Right's predictions are looking right on the money (with the possible exception of the #4 spot).  It's now Skidmore's regular season title to lose.  In the years that I've been  following the LL, it has usually seemed that 13 points is sufficient to get into the tournament (last year, 12 points was enough).  In alphabetical order, here's how the teams shake out on the path to 13 points:

Bard - It was nice to see the Raptors get a result against RIT, as they were unlucky not to have gotten one earlier.  They cannot reach the magic 13 points, but with RPI, Skidmore, and Vassar on the docket, they will have an opportunity to play spoiler down the stretch.

Clarkson - They inflicted a major wound on Union yesterday.  With 7 points and Skidmore (at home) and SLU (away) remaining on the schedule, getting to 13 points is unlikely.  Like Bard, they also have an opportunity to play spoiler.

Hobart - The Statesmen are playing their best soccer at the right time of the season.  If Skidmore falters, Hobart will be there to seize the opportunity.  Wins against Union and RIT would get them to 19 points and the #1 or #2 seed in the LL tournament.

RIT - The Tigers cannot reach 13 points.  With SLU and Hobart remaining on the schedule, a spot in the LL cellar is a likely possibility.

RPI - Like Hobart, the Engineers are coming on at the right time of the season.  With Skidmore and Bard at home, RPI could reach 16 points and the #2 or #3 seed. 

Skidmore - The Thoroughbreds control their own destiny.  If they win out, the regular season title and the #1 seed are theirs.  Doing so won't be a walk in the park, though, facing RPI and Clarkson on the road and Bard and Union at home.  Winning three out of four will get them 17 points and the #1 or #2 seed.

SLU - I fully expect the Saints to take care of business against RIT and Clarkson, reach 15 points, and claim the #3 seed.

Union - After falling at home to Clarkson yesterday, the Dutchmen need to win two of their last three to get to 13 points and have any prayer of making the playoffs.  Facing a gauntlet of Hobart, Vassar, and Skidmore on the road, Union is on life support.

Vassar - The Brewers need to win one of their remaining two games to reach 13 points.  Their opponents--Union and Bard--will be eager to prevent them from doing so.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 16, 2016, 09:07:37 pm
Mr.Right's Projected NCAA East Regional Rankings on Wednesday taking into account SOS, OWP,OOWP, Road results, etc.....


1. Oneonta St                  11-3-1
2. Rochester                     8-1-3
3. Cortland St                  12-2-0
4. SLU                              10-3-0
5. Hobart                           7-4-3
6. Stevens                         8-4-1
7. Vassar                           9-3-2
8. Houghton                      8-2-3

On the Cusp----Buffalo State and Fredonia St
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on October 18, 2016, 08:23:36 am
Big games coming up this week and weekend for the LL. Does Skidmore hold on and win it? Does Hobart, who has been playing the best soccer thus far, come in and play spoilers? Does RPI rise from the grave and make the league. Does Vassar hold on for dear life and make it? Does SLU get it together and make it? Does Union go on a streak and make it? Does Clarkson make their own run and squeeze in?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: lastguyoffthebench on October 18, 2016, 09:52:56 am

Welcome, grASSkicker! 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 19, 2016, 11:37:39 am
Cortland 5-Hobart 0: Too much road trip for Hobart after two overtime nail biters.  Another Liberty League Pool C aspirant gives up the ghost. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 19, 2016, 12:04:22 pm
Would have been tough for Hobart to get a pool C in any event (had too bad of a start to the season).

Hobart is a strange team. They can beat anyone in the league when they want to play, but over the last few seasons have also had some lopsided losses handed to them from non league teams.

I guess maybe when you are fighting for a league title, a Europa League loss is not fatal.

Eyes on the prize I guess.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 19, 2016, 12:36:28 pm
Cortland 5-Hobart 0: Too much road trip for Hobart after two overtime nail biters.  Another Liberty League Pool C aspirant gives up the ghost.

They were only down 1-0 at the half (with 0 shots), but a red card/PK combo put them a man down and another goal behind early in the second half.  The last three goals were scored in the final 12 minutes of play.  It remains to be seen whether the red card will be a factor in Saturday's game against Union.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 19, 2016, 12:39:35 pm
Again, Shawn Griffin's Hobart team has under achieved. This is becoming very common year after year and it puzzles me because when he was at Plymouth St his teams always over-achieved. When I saw Cortland play at Oneonta I was disappointed and unimpressed with Cortland. Oneonta absolutely DOMINATED them but maybe it was a one off. I have only seen Cortland once so I will have to catch them one more time in the SUNYAC tournament. That is a BIG win and as long as they do not slip they will be a LOCK for a Pool C. Hobart I have seen a couple times this year and frankly they are better than a 5-0 drubbing. They lack discipline and become uninterested in some games. They will need to win the LL tournament and I do not think they will, just a hunch.


Big game tonight with RPI v Skidmore.....Skidmore controls its own destiny to winning the regular season and hosting rights in the LL. I have been VERY critical of RPI this year and rightly so IMO. Somehow they swept Clarkson and SLU last weekend to basically secure a Top 4 spot with only Bard remaining. This game is always a heated battle and while Skidmore will get frustrated in this game at trying to break RPI down they will eventually get their goal. They have had 8 days rest and RPI is coming off back to backs on the weekend. That will prove the difference late in the game. 1-0 Skidmore
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 19, 2016, 09:36:02 pm
RPI has one shot on goal and wins.  Crazy year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 19, 2016, 09:41:17 pm
RPI had only one shot on goal, but that's all it took for them to dispatch Skidmore 1-0.  RPI is looking strong for the conference tournament, and Skidmore, with games left against Union, Clarkson, and Bard, can still get to 17 points and a first or second place finish in the conference.  Hobart controls its own destiny.  If they win out, they will win the conference and the #1 seed. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on October 20, 2016, 08:47:07 am
Crazy League. Hobart, RPI, Vassar, and Skidmore control their own destiny. SLU is on the outside looking in. Union and Clarkson need wins and help. RIT and Bard can play spoilers. Final stretch here folks, what are the thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 20, 2016, 10:11:53 am
RPI will be top 4.
They are a strange team.
They tend to always win games they must win.

I would not be surprised if any of 8 teams make it to the top 4 though...
At this point:
SLU
Union
Vassar
Clarkson
RPI
RIT
Hobart
Skidmore
All still have a legitimate shot at top 4.
I have to say, besides RIT now out, I feel a bit like the Soothsayer that warned Caesar about 3/15/20 BC or there abouts.

RPI, I don't know how they do it, they just win when needed.
Skidmore might be in trouble despite only one league loss. The trouble is wins are much harder to come by this time of year.
Tough seeing Union get in, although people said that about RPI just a week ago.
Vassar is the most interesting team in the league right now.
Would almost seem unfortunate and unfair if they don't make it in, but they might not.

Hobart is almost a lock at this point, but who knows, maybe their loss to Cortland was a sign of form, maybe not.

Clarkson is still holding on to hope. Them getting in would probably be the feel good story of the league.

Then there is SLU.
I might break my keyboard if I think about their predicament now so I will pass.

This weekend will settle things I think.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 20, 2016, 12:21:58 pm
Hard to believe SLU, after that start to the season, is facing potentially missing the LL tourney for the first time since '09.  However, with 6 points from the last 2 games, they've got a shot.

Plenty of clarity will come after this weekend, and everybody will know where they stand heading into the last set of fixtures.  Should be the most drama filled final day in quite a few years!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 20, 2016, 12:57:29 pm
Hard to believe SLU, after that start to the season, is facing potentially missing the LL tourney for the first time since '09.  However, with 6 points from the last 2 games, they've got a shot.

Plenty of clarity will come after this weekend, and everybody will know where they stand heading into the last set of fixtures.  Should be the most drama filled final day in quite a few years!

But RPI demonstrated last year that missing the league playoffs doesn't have to derail a team's NCAA at-large chances.  In fact, short of wining the LL tournament (which obviously they'd want the chance to do because of AQ) the LL tournament could lower their SOS depending who they would get matched with in addition to suffering another blemish.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 20, 2016, 01:30:48 pm
Still thinking that only LL team that will be dancing is the AQ.

MAYBE if SLU loses in LL final they have a chance (as it would mean they have won out the season and a playoff game before a fourth loss).  Still, it would take Buff. State or Fredonia to fade (as Cortland and Oneonta are likely locks, so that is one Pool C) and Rochester likely a second Pool C.  No other team in LL has a chance for pool C.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 20, 2016, 01:59:02 pm
Not that I desire this, but I think if SLU wins at RIT and ties v. Clarkson they are a lock at a Pool C even if that does not get them into the League tourney.

They would sit at a very very respectable 11-3-1, with wins over 2 of the current top 5 teams in the East (Cortland/Vassar).

I also think that 15 is the magic # to get in the LL Tourney this year.
14 just wont do it. Not this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 20, 2016, 08:04:45 pm
I'm actually looking for 3 bids:  SLU does an RPI; Vassar beats Rochester, and then wins out until losing away to Hobart in a shootout in the final; and Hobart gets the AQ.  You can put the white jacket on me now.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 20, 2016, 09:46:08 pm
Saint of Old -- agreed -- 15 points is a lock.
SLU has to win both remaining games to get 15 points.
Hobart needs two results to lock a spot: two wins makes them first seed with 19 points.
RPI has to beat Bard to make 16 (a result leaves them at 14 points and on the edge).
Vassar needs two wins to make 16 (a result leaves them at 14 but with tie-breaker over RPI).
Skidmore needs two wins and a result from their final three LL games (@Clarkson, v. Bard, v. Union) to achieve 15 points (and they have tie-breaker over SLU).
Union needs to win all three of their final LL contests (@Hobart, @Vassar, @Skidmore) to get 16 points -- a tough row to hoe....
Clarkson would need to beat Skidmore and @SLU away (knocking both of them out) to get 13 points and join Hobart, RPI and Vassar.

Deutschfan -- like the rose-tinted glasses!
But, Vassar and SLU have weaker SOS then Cortland, Oneonta, Buff. State, Rochester and Hobart.
Pretty sure that two of the three SUNYAC teams and Rochester will get Pool C bids before any of the LL teams.
Not sure there will be a fourth Pool C team from the East....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2016, 11:40:23 am
Vassar v. Rochester
Actually a very big game (albeit non conference for Vassar) could pull an RPI with  a win over a strong opponent, even if they fail to make the league tournament.
Vassar 2 Rochester 1

Skidmore v. Clarkson

Something tells me Clarkson will get something out of this game. Skidmore cannot allow that, if they do then it will spell a very tense final week of the regular season for them
1-1

Union v. Hobart
Hobart books at least a 2nd place finish in the league while closing the postseason door on Union.

2-0 Hobart

SLU v. RIT
RIT plays for pride at home and holds Saints to a tie. Saints still not scoring goals
0-0

RPI v. Bard

Must win game for RPI (believe it or not) Bard  playing its best soccer of the year and looking to climb the league table shocks the Engineers

1-0 Bard.




Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2016, 12:23:47 pm
Big Weekend in the LL.....

SLU must and will defeat RIT as they need to get a Top 4 spot or they will not be going to the NCAA's IMO. Even with 2 ranked wins there  will be others around the country with better resumes. They must get into the LL Final and then if they lose / tie they would get a bid.

I still say Skidmore wins the league. Just a disappointing loss at RPI mid-week allowing only 1 SOG and losing. They must go 3-0-0 against Bard, Clarkson and Union which is very doable.

Hobart v Union is the match of the weekend with the winner in very good shape. If Hobart wins they might win the league. Union must win out.

Vassar v UR is a huge game with Pool C ramifications. If Vassar can win(which I do not think will happen) they will be on their way to a Pool C.

I am calling a Bard upset at RPI....The team that gets RPI in the LL tourney will be a lucky one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2016, 01:29:31 pm
If Bard upsets RPI.
RPI will not make it to the LL Tourney.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 21, 2016, 08:21:04 pm
Interesting subplot in the VC v. UR game.  UR's leading scorer went to the high school right down the street from Vassar and played with one of Vassar's captains.  He may have been recruited by both schools--who knows.  Rochester tied RPI and Vassar should definitely be in this game.  Problem is that last weekend Vassar looked unsettled in both their games.  Mr. Right was right, as usual, that RIT, arguably the weakest team in the league, was controlling the second half of their game with Vassar and was unlucky not to get at least a tie.  If that Vassar shows up, and the Rochester that led Chicago after one half shows up, it will be no contest.  If the Rochester that tied RPI shows up Vassar should make it a contest.  Last time Vassar played a UAA team was in the NCAA second round in 2012 where they lost a heartbreaker to host Brandeis in the last 30 seconds of regulation.  I'm sure general UAA revenge will be on their mind even though all of the players from that team have graduated.  In general LL teams should look to schedule UAA teams, at least the ones geographically close like UR, NYU and Brandeis.  The UAA definitely has the respect of the Committee.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 12:35:54 pm
Interesting subplot in the VC v. UR game.  UR's leading scorer went to the high school right down the street from Vassar and played with one of Vassar's captains.  He may have been recruited by both schools--who knows.  Rochester tied RPI and Vassar should definitely be in this game.  Problem is that last weekend Vassar looked unsettled in both their games.  Mr. Right was right, as usual, that RIT, arguably the weakest team in the league, was controlling the second half of their game with Vassar and was unlucky not to get at least a tie.  If that Vassar shows up, and the Rochester that led Chicago after one half shows up, it will be no contest.  If the Rochester that tied RPI shows up Vassar should make it a contest.  Last time Vassar played a UAA team was in the NCAA second round in 2012 where they lost a heartbreaker to host Brandeis in the last 30 seconds of regulation.  I'm sure general UAA revenge will be on their mind even though all of the players from that team have graduated.  In general LL teams should look to schedule UAA teams, at least the ones geographically close like UR, NYU and Brandeis.  The UAA definitely has the respect of the Committee.   


This I agree with. LL teams schedule Williams because of geography. RPI and Skidmore are on the schdule and in the past Williams has played Union and Hamilton(when in the LL)...UR should be playing and I believe they do play more than half of the LL...Amherst and Union refuse too play any team that is somewhat competitive...SLU and Middlebury would be a GREAT game that could be played. Midd could also play Skidmore, RPI and Union but I do not think Midd would play those teams. Maybe when Saward retires the new coach will play a tougher schedule.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 03:00:55 pm
Skidmore up 2-0 over Clarkson at the half. If this holds an they beat Union and Bard which is likely I think they can get the #1 seed. The Hobart and Union game is BIG.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 03:22:01 pm
RIT v SLU 1-1 15 minutes in...Did not see the goals but RIT video is very good. SLU must get this game
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 03:25:02 pm
Vassar up 1-0 with 30 minutes left in the game. If Vassar can hold on for the win it would be HUGE. Vassar would be on the bubble and most likely get a Pool C so this is a big game for them. LL might be seeing 2 NCAA tournament teams this year if the result holds which the LL deserves.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 22, 2016, 03:30:21 pm
SLU regains the lead on a nice ship shot from Augustine.  Controlling the game, but RIT did well on the equalizer.  Really good counterattack and some slick passing. 

Man, if Bard could do us a solid later in the day that would be nice  ;D.  SLU put themselves in this position though.  I vastly underestimated the impact of losing Copeland and Hunt.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 22, 2016, 03:32:19 pm
2-0 Vassar last I checked, and agreed, massive for Vassar if he can see it through.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 03:52:44 pm
3-0 Vassar...Unreal....5 Total Shots for Vassar and 3 goals...Since no one is goin to pay $7.50 to watch UR of play we have to assume UR outshot Vassar and maybe outplayed them nut Vassar gets it done with a HUGE win...NIve win for Vassar
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 22, 2016, 03:54:19 pm
3-0 Vassar...Unreal....5 Total Shots for Vassar and 3 goals...Since no one is goin to pay $7.50 to watch UR of play we have to assume UR outshot Vassar and maybe outplayed them nut Vassar gets it done with a HUGE win...NIve win for Vassar

I still don't understand how a college with a $1 billion + endowment is still charging people to watch online streams.  SLU provides free HQ streams for ALL sports, even our D1 hockey teams which you could actually make a case for charging a fee to watch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 22, 2016, 04:36:04 pm
As long as Vassar makes the LL playoffs they should be in the mix for a pool C.  Great coaching job by the staff--graduate 10 and have a good chance of making it back to the NCAAs.  Also it shows  the value of a steady diet of home cooking.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 22, 2016, 06:21:09 pm
So looks like RPI is going to win comfortably against Bard.  For SLU to get into the LL playoffs they're going to need Union/Bard to at least draw with Skidmore or Vassar, and that's all dependent upon beating Clarkson next weekend.  I'm looking at RPI's schedule last year, and it appears their win against Oneonta is what got them a Pool C bid, because outside of that game their OOC schedule wasn't that remarkable.   I wonder what it will mean for SLU if they don't get into the LL playoff.  They beat Vassar and Cortland, who have been on a tear the last few weeks.  If going by last year's results I think SLU might have a slight chance at pool C.  Am I being delusional or does anyone else agree?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 22, 2016, 06:48:33 pm
SLU is a lock for the LL playoffs and I think Vassar's win over Rochester assures the LL of an automatic and a pool c.  If Vassar stumbles in one of its last two games, and SLU doesn't win the tournament, then SLU will get the Pool C.  If SLU wins the tournament, and Vassar fails to get into the playoffs Vassar may actually pull off an RPI as Skidmore, Hobart, and RPI simply have too many blemishes.  Interesting scenario is if Vassar gets in, and SLU gets in, and neither win.  SLU has head to head but Vassar's Rochester win is compelling. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 06:59:07 pm
SLU is not a lock for a LL berth. I think Skidmore knows what is on the line and will dispatch of Bard and Union...Maybe Maybe Union gets a draw with Skidmore but I wouldn't say it is a LOCK. I actually think Vassar could draw with Union because sometimes after teams beat a nationally ranked team they can get very complacent in their next game. We will see. I do think SLU has a shot at a Pool C anyway but they would need some help from other teams in other regions either not depending on a Pool C if they lose in their league tournament and teams like Oneonta or UR start losing. If UR starts dropping games they will drop in the rankings. However, SLU would want Vassar and Cortland to keep winning so they do not drop out of the East Rankings otherwise they would lose their ranked wins.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on October 22, 2016, 08:27:55 pm
3-0 Vassar...Unreal....5 Total Shots for Vassar and 3 goals...Since no one is goin to pay $7.50 to watch UR of play we have to assume UR outshot Vassar and maybe outplayed them nut Vassar gets it done with a HUGE win...NIve win for Vassar

I still don't understand how a college with a $1 billion + endowment is still charging people to watch online streams.  SLU provides free HQ streams for ALL sports, even our D1 hockey teams which you could actually make a case for charging a fee to watch.

Thaaaaaaaaank you!

What a win for Vassar, though.  I saw that fixture on the calendar and was shocked to see the final score line, as I would have pictured Rochester pulling out a gritty win on the road.

After starting 7-0-1 Rochester is 1-2-2 in its last five. That is what happens when you frontload your schedule with cupcakes and leave the tough games for the second half of the season.  Even so, I think Rochester is still in a very good position for a Pool C,  and it certainly is admirable that they have won all the games that they're supposed to win, but I do think that they are perhaps being found out as not being as potent as people thought based on their red–hot start.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 22, 2016, 08:35:18 pm
If UR finishes the season with losses to Brandeis and Emory and say a draw with NYU or even a win v NYU they are a bubble team IMO. The RvR is not going to be very good. The win v Buff State will not matter now because they will drop off the East rankings. They drew Wash U and lost to Chicago and Vassar. If they lose to Emory and Brandeis(which will sneak into the New England rankings next week IMO) that will be a 0-4-1 RvR. Their only wins would be against Hobart and CMU which I think might drop off the East rankings especially if they lose to Union tonight. Either way 1-4-1 RvR will not get it done no matter what their SOS is.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on October 22, 2016, 08:45:17 pm
Wait....which endowment are we talking about...Vassar's or UR's?  I know UR charges for games but this was at Vassar.  Vassar also charges $7.50???

Agree that UR MUST get a win over Brandeis or Emory, and I would guess that they will pull one out.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on October 22, 2016, 08:58:33 pm
Wait....which endowment are we talking about...Vassar's or UR's?  I know UR charges for games but this was at Vassar.  Vassar also charges $7.50???

Agree that UR MUST get a win over Brandeis or Emory, and I would guess that they will pull one out.

I don't know if Vassar does or not, but I have complained before about Rochester's decision to charge for games.

I agree that they will win one or both of those games, as Rochester is really good at getting big wins when they need to. That said, last year I thought Rochester would pull out wins in its last three to fall backwards into a Pool C bid, but alas they did not, going 6-5-5 overall and 1-3-3 in conference.  Perhaps they had taken for granted that they would win those big games, as I remember them two years ago coming back from being 1-0 down in the last 10 minutes to beat Carnegie on the road in a must-win game 2-1 and get an NCAA bid, but if there was any complacency on that front it will certainly have been eliminated by failing to make NCAAs last year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 22, 2016, 09:02:58 pm
Wait....which endowment are we talking about...Vassar's or UR's?  I know UR charges for games but this was at Vassar.  Vassar also charges $7.50???

I haven't had to pay for any LL games this year (including games at Vassar).  I missed all of today's games online, though, so I don't know if Vassar charged today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on October 23, 2016, 01:44:17 pm
RPI and Hobart have punched their tickets into the playoffs. Who joins them? Skidmore needs the AQ, while SLU and Vassar are in that Pool C discussion. Who needs the AQ more, Vassar or SLU? What other 2 teams are going to join the LL Playoffs?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 23, 2016, 02:51:27 pm
I think it's kind of a tossup between SLU and Vassar needing the AQ.  SLU beat Vassar, and also has what's now proven to be a critical win against Cortland.  Vassar just knocked of Rochester, which holds quite a bit of weight.   SLU only has 1 game remaining, while Vassar and Skidmore have 2.  To qualify all SLU needs to do is beat clarkson and have Skidmore or Vassar draw with Bard/Union.  I think there's a decent chance Bard/Union gets a result against one of those teams, but this year all bets are off.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 23, 2016, 04:10:59 pm
That head to head win for SLU over Vassar might prove to be the difference. Vassar better make the LL Playoffs because they will not get a Pool C if they do not qualify IMO. RPI last year was a GIFT that will not happen again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 24, 2016, 11:36:12 am
So it seems we have come to the point when 15 points may not get an invite to the LL Tourney.

If SLU wins v. Clarkson and finishes with a 12-3 (5-3) record they are still in danger of missing out on post season play if Vassar and Skidmore take care of business.

I think (taking subjectivity out of the analysis) this says a lot about the strength and competitiveness of the Liberty league.

Unfortunately, it  may also lead to the league getting only one bid.

Skidmore
SLU
Vassar

One of these teams will stop playing after this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 24, 2016, 01:24:39 pm
Fear not, Saint!  I am pretty confident that stlawus's hypothesis that Bard or Union will get a result will be supported and render 15 points sufficient to get to the LL tournament.  Despite the apparent parity in the league, the relative lack of draws over the course of the season has inflated the number of points required to make the tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 24, 2016, 02:05:00 pm
Pretty sure the Union v. Skidmore game will be quite the event.
Skidmore has to go forward as they need all the points, Union counters exceptionally well, and they are both aware of the implications.
I'm thinking it will be the tie that all SLU faithful seek.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 24, 2016, 11:39:35 pm
Like I said before I think Skidmore is a much better side than Union as I have seen both about 3 times this year. They will beat Union and Bard at home. The problem is you mention that Skidmore has to go forward which is true BUT you forget to mention that Union MUST go forward as well if they are to have any chance at the #4 seed. This will open them up immensely which Skidmore has the talent to take advantage of. The problem for SLU fans is that then they will be rooting for a Union / Vassar draw or Vassar loss against a Union team that WILL HAVE NOTHING to play for. That would scare me more
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 25, 2016, 12:01:35 am
Like I said before I think Skidmore is a much better side than Union as I have seen both about 3 times this year. They will beat Union and Bard at home. The problem is you mention that Skidmore has to go forward which is true BUT you forget to mention that Union MUST go forward as well if they are to have any chance at the #4 seed. This will open them up immensely which Skidmore has the talent to take advantage of. The problem for SLU fans is that then they will be rooting for a Union / Vassar draw or Vassar loss against a Union team that WILL HAVE NOTHING to play for. That would scare me more

Because Union v Skidmore (Saturday) comes after Union v Vassar (Wednesday), it is possible that Union will have nothing to play for when they meet Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 25, 2016, 03:45:40 pm
Wading into deeper water by acknowledging the points that Mr. Right makes while re-iterating that Union will sit back and dare Skidmore to attack.  Skidmore may be the better team, and they may have more to play for by Saturday, but that is more reason for sitting back and countering. Skidmore is slow (and they rely on the impressive #10: Oyeniyi to shore up their back line) and Union is quick on wings.  Could easily be Union's game....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PFGF on October 25, 2016, 09:42:35 pm
Union can't score - 1 goal in last 3 LL games. Vassar has 6 goals in last 3 games and 9 goals in last 4 games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 26, 2016, 11:18:00 am
Just want to point out that SLU beating Clarkson, while likely, isn't a foregone conclusion. The past few years this has been an absolute battle, and this year won't be any different. I expect the Saints to get 3 points at home and give themselves at chance, but Clarkson would love nothing more than to knock their North Country rivals out of the playoffs for the first time since 2009.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on October 26, 2016, 12:09:10 pm
If Slu has any chance of getting in, the result must happen in today's match up between Vassar and Union. Skidmore will play Union this weekend, and Skidmore needs to win to get in. If union lose today, they will lose some grit in that final game vs. Skidmore. Vassar needs to win out to get in. If they win today, they have to beat Bard at Bard this weekend, which in no easy contest. But if someone told the Vassar team in the beginning of the season that they would need to beat bard away to get into post season, they would love those odds. Going to be a lot of people watching the Vassar Union game today!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2016, 06:10:07 pm
Vassar wins and Union has two red cards--Union players probably didn't appreciate the late penalty that decided the game.  Playing Bard at Bard is no easy task and last year Vassar denied them a winning record and a potential ECAC bid so there will be revenge in play.  New regional rankings have Vassar dropping a few notches as a reward for beating the then number 1 seed.  How does that work?  Last year RPI moved up after losing a league game to Vassar that helped knock them out of the LL playoffs and that move helped them get to the NCAAs.  I don't get it but maybe Mr. Right or some of the other intuitive posters on this board can explain before I withdraw into a world of conspiracy theories.  Las Vegas odds probably have SLU not making the tournament.  Are they done?  Does the ghost of RPI resurface?  So many questions, so much time.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 26, 2016, 07:33:45 pm
SLU on outside of LL playoffs -- nervy times in Canton.  They need a win v. Clarkson and Bard finding a result v. Vassar or Union (with the flat metal taste of today's six-yellow-card/two-red-card-and-a-PK loss) beating Skidmore.  I'm losing my twice-repeated enthusiasm for a draw between these two....

Playoff pairings completely dependent on final games.

Based on SOS, SLU not going to get a Pool C bid this year. Vassar MIGHT get a Pool C bid if they make LL final. Their SOS is low compared to Oneonta St. and Rochester -- who seem like locks to get Pool C bids. Hobart MIGHT also get a Pool C bid if they make LL final as their SOS is strongest in LL.  Still, if they lose in finals of LL they will be a six-loss team.... Mr. Right might be enticed to weigh in, but it may be the only LL team in NCAAs this year is AQ.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 26, 2016, 07:35:16 pm
Well last year RPI made the tournament off a win against Oneonta, who I believe were #1 in the regional rankings.  Right now Cortland is #1, and SLU beat them earlier in the year.  Will it be enough if they don't make the LL playoff?  The realist in me would think not, but I would have to believe there is a significant chance.  Mr. Right knows a lot more about this, hopefully he offers his 2 cents.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 26, 2016, 11:56:28 pm
RPI IMO made the tournament last year because of the Oneonta win and Adam Clinton's clout on the committee. Since Duroucher is the chair of the East Committee SLU will a shot especially being ranked #4. I would say their fans MUST ROOT for no upsets these conference tournaments around the country. With 19 Pool C's SLU will be on the bubble. Your best example you would want Vassar to win the LL tournament so they cannot jump SLU in the Final Regional Rankings. I would also be rooting for UR to lose their final games this weekend to drop them below SLU in the rankings. Maybe even have Oneonta getingt upset in their conference tournament and make sure Cortland wins it and also make sure New Paltz and Fredonia get eliminated quickly. Do not even ask me how New Paltz with 10 blemishes are even ranked. I do not remember the last time a team with 10 blemishes was even ranked and they do not even play a very difficult schedule.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 27, 2016, 12:52:25 am
Yeah, New Paltz is unique, at least against the previous 5 years.

In the previous five years, the most blemishes for a team in the Week 2 Regional Rankings was 8:
2011: Roger Williams 9-3-5
2012: RPI 9-4-4, Puget Sound 8-3-5
2013: Hardin-Simmons 6-3-5
2014: Eastern Connecticut 9-5-3, Brockport State 9-2-6, Catholic 8-5-3, Centre 7-3-5
2015: -- 

In the previous five years, the most blemishes for a team in the Week 3 Regional Rankings was 9, happening twice:
2012: RPI 9-5-4
2014: Case Western Reserve 8-5-4

Eight losses in the Week 3 Regional Rankings isn't so unusual:
2011: Roger Williams 11-3-5, RIT 9-6-2, Dickinson 9-4-4
2012: RPI 9-5-4
2013: Hardin-Simmons 8-3-5
2014: Wesleyan 8-5-3, Brockport State 10-2-6, Rochester 8-5-3, Centre 8-5-3, Case Western Reserve 8-5-4, DePauw 10-7-1, Ohio Northern 11-7-1, Carleton 9-6-2
2015: Rutgers-Camden 12-7-1, Rutgers-Newark 13-7-1, Christopher Newport 11-2-6, Luther 11-5-3

However, being ranked and being selected for an at-large berth to the tournament are two different things. In the last five years, the most blemishes for a team selected for an at-large berth is 9: 2014 Brockport 10-3-6.  Next, 8 blemishes: 2012 Emory 10-6-2.  7 blemishes is fairly common for at-large selections.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 27, 2016, 01:18:23 am
I agree with the analysis but to be regionally ranked in week 2 of the rankings with already having 10 blemishes is unheard of which you just showed. However, we talking about a team that is not ranked #8(last) in the East. They are actually #5 right behind SLU. If they go on the road on Saturday and win the #4 v #5 game at Buffalo State and then draw against Cortland or Oneonta and lose in PK's I would GUESS they would get a Pool C. If they do not then we can figure the East is only getting 2 maybe 3 At-Large selections. This will be very interesting to see this all play out especially if they win at Buff State. If they lose then it will not matter anyhow
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 27, 2016, 08:23:30 am
And my point wasn't to minimize the uniqueness of 10-blemish New Paltz being ranked, but to illustrate it.  But you are right to point out that New Paltz isn't just ranked, but ranked 5th of 8 teams.   The highest any of the 8-blemish teams ranked in Week 2 in previous years was 2014 Brockport State (9-2-6) at 5th out of 7 in the East.  You also had 2012 RPI (9-4-4) at 7th of 9 in the East.  But otherwise these 8-blemish teams were in the final two spots in their region.

Obviously, the fact that over 2/3's of the blemishes are ties, not loses also helps a lot.  Flip that around to 8-7-3 and they are certainly not ranked at 5th.  But the thing that stands out for me is New Paltz's 3-1-1 record versus ranked teams.  In the cases of the 8-blemish teams I list in my previous post, they always had losing RvR with 0 or just 1 wins over ranked opponents.  And as we know, the committee really likes RvR, especially the wins, and New Paltz has that for now.  Their win over Buffalo St., comes off their RvR next week, so their RvR will be a little less impressive at 2-1-1, but that's still much better than we typically see from teams carrying so many blemishes. 

So, in agreement with Mr. Right, this is a very unique thing we are seeing with New Paltz.  It is yet to be seen if they can actually do enough in the SUNYAC tournament to actually get an at-large berth.  Not winning the AQ would mean at least one more blemish (a win or a tie), so 11 blemishes.  Now that would really be something and would certainly make them the most blemished team to get in via an at-large berth.  If Fredonia loses their quarterfinal match, they might drop from the rankings which would further drop New Paltz's RvR to 1-1-1 for the 4th/Final Rankings and at-large selections**.  And the only way Buffalo State maybe gets back in the rankings is by eliminating New Platz in the quarterfinals, which would kill their chances right there.

** - Note, starting next year with the change in the definition of Results versus Ranked to include teams ranked in the previous two rankings, New Paltz's win over Fredonia would already be locked in as part of their RvR, but not this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 27, 2016, 12:18:02 pm
I just want to say that with regards to New Paltz, these boys have spent the last few seasons BUILDING A PROGRAM.
This is still my favorite thing about college soccer.
Other than us have beens rooting on the current crop of ballerz representing the teams we love, watching a program get built is the real joy.
Potsdam Bears have been doing this as well (despite not making it to post season this year).
New Paltz had a very good 2015 and they beat good teams consistently.
That is the measure of a good team, and I think that now they have shocked the SUNYAC their gaze is now turned on shocking the region.

As for SLU and their playoff hopes, I think it is worth noting that if St. Lawrence manages to beat Clarkson on Saturday then:
They will only have sustained 3 blemishes all year (All to playoff teams)
They have beaten arguably the best team in SUNYAC and the Liberty League (Cortland/Vassar).
They are still the 4th ranked team in the region as of yesterday and it is unlikely that any team below them will overtake them.
Also possible the teams above them might drop below them.
Teams above them also have a shot at automatically qualifying.

Don't get me wrong, I would much rather get to the Tourney and win, but I think there remains  atleast a bit of hope if not.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2016, 03:41:27 pm
SLU down 1-0 to Clarkson with about 15 minutes to go...They must get this game somehow as it looks like they are dominating stats but just not finishing...They lose this game and their bubble most likely will be burst
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2016, 03:48:45 pm
Wow...SLU really is having issues finishing...I have tuned in for only 5 minutes but have already seen 2 GOLDEN chances for SLU to score and one of them the striker skied it a mile high...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 29, 2016, 03:50:43 pm
That's pretty much the story of the season.  Team's inability to score is going to sink their season.  This was suppose to be an offensive team as well.  Very disappointing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 29, 2016, 03:58:10 pm
Best team won today.
Clarkson played with wayyy more heart and desire.

Top scorer for the season 5 goals.
Nothing more need be said.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 29, 2016, 03:58:21 pm
And that does it for SLU's season.  Wasted opportunity after wasted opportunity.  An own goal and terrible finishing to end the season.  Did not expect SLU to light the world on fire this season but definitely expected better than this.  Very disappointing.  Oh well, rest of the league is quite strong and should be entertaining to watch.  Hoping that the LL represents well in the NT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 29, 2016, 05:58:25 pm
Jeez Skidmore blows a 2-1 lead over Union with 6 minutes left and loses. SLU would have qualified...That stings even more...The LL tournament should be very fun to watch lets just hope Hobart's stream has improved. Vassar's SD stream is like watching dots but its doable...BIG revenge game between Hobart and Skidmore. I think Vassar is on the bubble so if Hobart or Skidmore win the LL we will see 2 LL teams in the NCAA's. If SLU has any chance they must root for another UR loss tomorrow and a Fredonia loss to Oneonta in the SUNYAC Semi's. New Paltz is finished but I do believe Vassar will pass SLU in the rankings Wednsday so it would be helpful for Vassar to win the LL which I do not think will happen. I think winner of Hobart / Skidmore gets it done.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 29, 2016, 06:32:38 pm
Who would have thunk?  Union plays spoiler at Skidmore after a season ending meltdown on Wednesday providing an opportunity for SLU, and a home game for Vassar in the LL playoffs.  How a team like Skidmore which has great defense making up for a one man offense gives up two goals in the last 6 minutes after Skidmore goes up by one is beyond me.  SLU loses at home with 24 shots and putting in the only goal for Clarkson.  Given last year's talented freshman class, and the return of Brandell from injury, SLU should have been another dominant year.  Instead Dede disappears scoring 1 point in League, and Brandell's midfield production is relegated to center back.   SLU will not get a pool c losing at home in its final game to a bottom tier LL team.  At least RPI ended on a winning note last year before the invite they never should have gotten.  Vassar has the only opportunity for a pool C and they must get to the LL final to get it.  If Vassar wins out they likely will be the only LL representative as it means Hobart will have been beaten at home.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 30, 2016, 03:39:10 pm
Congrats to Union and Clarkson for unexpected results. 
Heartbreaking end for the SLU seniors.

looking forward, Hobart has had trouble getting results from games with Skidmore and RPI, and Vassar certainly wants to avenge the regular season loss.

If it is Hobart over Vassar in finals them maybe a Pool-C bid goes to Vassar if Oneonta wins SUNYAC over Cortland. However, if either Skidmore or RPI are in LL finals, the league is only going to see the AQ make NCAAs.

Pretty sure the Hobart/Skidmore game will go to OT (nine of Hobart's 17 regular season games went to OT, including five of six LL wins), maybe PKs (so who knows). Thinking that RPI ekes out a win at Vassar this time (they lost 3:2 in regular season).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 02, 2016, 04:06:15 pm
Vassar having no issues dispatching RPI. Impressive performance from the Brewers.

Hobart is by far the better team right now, but Skidmore did enough to equalize.  Defending for their lives hoping to nick one from the counter or hold out for PKs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 02, 2016, 05:13:59 pm
Skidmore is through on PKs
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 02, 2016, 05:19:30 pm
This is Vassar's tournament to lose and playing Saturday at home they won't.  Have to seriously consider a freshman for LL POY.  Hat trick in the semis is very compelling and even if the evaluations are based on the regular season still difficult to forget this performance.  If Vassar wins, Skidmore will not get a bid. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 02, 2016, 05:50:18 pm
Do you think Vassar gets a bid if Skidmore wins?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 02, 2016, 06:26:23 pm
I think that win today gives them a very good chance at Pool C if they lose against Skidmore.  #2 in regional rankings as it stands. 

If they win saturday I wonder what this does for SLU's Pool C's chances.  I don't think they should get a bid, but they have wins against the #1 and #2 teams in the east region. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 02, 2016, 07:00:44 pm
I think that win today gives them a very good chance at Pool C if they lose against Skidmore.  #2 in regional rankings as it stands. 

If they win saturday I wonder what this does for SLU's Pool C's chances.  I don't think they should get a bid, but they have wins against the #1 and #2 teams in the east region.


How do you get Vassar to #2 in the regional rankings?  They're sitting today at #7.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 02, 2016, 07:27:31 pm
I'm looking at the East region rankings and they're sitting at #2 below Cortland and above Oneonta.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 02, 2016, 07:31:47 pm
I'm looking at the East region rankings and they're sitting at #2 below Cortland and above Oneonta.

You must be looking at the one that doesn't count.  Vassar is at #7 in the NCAA rankings (as opposed to NSCAA).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 02, 2016, 07:32:26 pm
Oh my mistake then, I've been lied to! 

Interesting to see SLU at #4.  Team's not really deserving in IMO, then again me thinking that NSCAA were the actual rankings proves why I wouldn't know ha.   Lots of parity this year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Christan Shirk on November 02, 2016, 11:38:49 pm
I'm looking at the East region rankings and they're sitting at #2 below Cortland and above Oneonta.

You must be looking at the one that doesn't count.  Vassar is at #7 in the NCAA rankings (as opposed to NSCAA).

stlawus, might I suggest one of these:

October 15, 2016
Coming Wednesday: the rankings that matter (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2016/the-rankings-that-matter)
By Christan Shirk


2016 NCAA Regional Rankings (http://www.d3soccer.com/rankings/2016/about)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 02, 2016, 11:47:58 pm
This is Vassar's tournament to lose and playing Saturday at home they won't.  Have to seriously consider a freshman for LL POY.  Hat trick in the semis is very compelling and even if the evaluations are based on the regular season still difficult to forget this performance.  If Vassar wins, Skidmore will not get a bid.

You are very confident on this Vassar team. I think they are overrated and under ranked if that makes any sense....Skidmore wins the AQ and I will be happy to take odds on that. They can SLAM the door shut defensively if they play to their potential. Santos scores the game winner in the 78th minute and Skidmore wins 1-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2016, 01:07:53 am
I'm looking at the East region rankings and they're sitting at #2 below Cortland and above Oneonta.

You must be looking at the one that doesn't count.  Vassar is at #7 in the NCAA rankings (as opposed to NSCAA).

stlawus, might I suggest one of these:

October 15, 2016
Coming Wednesday: the rankings that matter (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2016/the-rankings-that-matter)
By Christan Shirk


2016 NCAA Regional Rankings (http://www.d3soccer.com/rankings/2016/about)

Thanks for the literature!  This whole time I thought NSCAA were the end all be all...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 03, 2016, 11:11:59 am
SLU will be watching this one intently. A win for Vassar is basically their only hope, and even then it's a long shot.  But then again, you just never know with the selection committee.

If SLU gets in, I think they could really be a dark horse.  Don't forget that at one point, this team was 9-0 and seemed to be winning in every way possible. If they're granted a chance, don't count them out.

Hoping Vassar pulls this one out. Great program and deserving to win one at home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 03, 2016, 12:01:35 pm
Liberty League Takeaways So far...

Vassar will be good for a long time to come.
Everything the program has done for the last 5 years prepared them for powerhouse status.
Top scorer is a freshman.
Consistently beat good teams
Consistently compete in the post-season.
The LL and the region should look out for this team.

Hobart are just the most unlucky team there is...
They should have danced last year but didn't, should have danced this year but wont.

Union is a tricky one. They have to play a stronger early schedule to get ready for the league.
They should be a post season team and with hard work and beter scheduling I think they should be.

Skidmore has proved they are an elite team in the league
back to back Finals appearances, but sadly hasn't danced which is very necessary to get respect.

RPI is a class act, they are always a playoff team.

Clarkson seems poised to make a move, but it will take a very impressive freshman class or two more to do so.

I expected more out of Bard this year, but still an improving team.

RIT was a bit unlucky this season, but I just don't see them getting into top half of table for another few years.

Still trying to analyze SLU.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 03, 2016, 10:15:05 pm
SLU will be watching this one intently. A win for Vassar is basically their only hope, and even then it's a long shot.  But then again, you just never know with the selection committee.

Given what Mr. Right said about other teams in the region not being able to jump SLU in the rankings and Coach Durocher being involved with the selection of Pool C teams, it seems the odds of the Saints making it into the tournament are pretty good regardless of who wins on Saturday.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 03, 2016, 10:39:25 pm
Have to seriously consider a freshman for LL POY.  Hat trick in the semis is very compelling and even if the evaluations are based on the regular season still difficult to forget this performance.

I had intended to get my nominees in for postseason honors prior to the semifinals, but life got in the way.  Anyhow, here are my choices:

Player of the Year - There doesn't seem to be a clear cut favorite in this category, and a number of players had great seasons and proved invaluable to their teams' success.  Nevertheless, I'm going to go a bit against the grain here and advocate for Devon Baughen (RPI). He didn't have much help on the offensive end and much of the team's success in conference play can be directly attributable to his performance on the pitch.  He's not a flashy player, but he gets the job done.

Defensive Player of the Year - As with the Player of the Year race, there were many players who had outstanding seasons and helped keep the ball out of the goal for their squad.  I can think of no more dominant player on the defensive end than Adebare Oyeniyi (Skidmore).  He's a huge reason why the Thoroughbreds are playing in the LL final.

Rookie of the Year - Unlike the previous two categories, there seems to be one player who stands out above the rest.  Following ably in the footsteps of his brother Zander and charting his own path in the attacking third, Mattie Mrlik (Vassar) richly deserves Rookie of the Year honors.

Coaching Staff of the Year - As Saint alluded to, a lot of LL coaches are building strong programs.  I think that there are 4-5 coaching staffs deserving this award, but if pressed to name just one, I would choose the Hobart coaching staff.  Coach Griffin and his colleagues battled back from an 0-3-1 record in a challenging early season schedule  to claim the regular season title. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 03, 2016, 10:51:55 pm
Only thing I might disagree with there is COY. My vote would go to Clarkson. But as you said, several viable candidates this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 03, 2016, 11:11:50 pm
Only thing I might disagree with there is COY. My vote would go to Clarkson. But as you said, several viable candidates this year.

I agree that Coach Taylor and his staff did a great job with the team, keeping them in contention for the playoffs until the very end and vanquishing their conference rival.  They won the award two years ago for turning the program around and will, in my opinion, need to reach the playoffs to earn this award again.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 03, 2016, 11:17:22 pm
Can't really disagree with your choices Ommadawn.  All much deserving of the awards. 

Being a SLU alum and knowing Durocher, I would like to think he'd ignore bias as chair of the East Region.  He loves SLU as much as anyone, so I'm not going to say he won't  ;D
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 03, 2016, 11:30:21 pm
Can't really disagree with your choices Ommadawn.  All much deserving of the awards. 

Being a SLU alum and knowing Durocher, I would like to think he'd ignore bias as chair of the East Region.  He loves SLU as much as anyone, so I'm not going to say he won't  ;D

I didn't intend to convey that he would be biased.  It would be more a case of his knowing how good the team really is and how well they performed out of conference.  I think that SLU's case this year is MUCH stronger than RPI's last year, and RPI acquitted themselves admirably when given the chance in the tournament.  I could see SLU getting to the Sweet 16 if they finish a few of the many opportunities they create...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 04, 2016, 01:15:49 am
Personally, I don't really think they should make the tournament. That loss to Clarkson at home was pretty brutal.  It's not like SEC football teams where losses don't count. 

However, looking back at RPI last year, I would agree with you in saying SLU is more deserving to get in this year.  RPI made the tournament off of a single win which came against Oneonta.  SLU knocked off Cortland who are #1 in the regional rankings, and Vassar who should move up in the ER and are competing for the LL title.  If Rochester didn't stumble has hard as they have recently, I would have put them ahead, but if SLU doesn't bounce down further in the ER I think Pool C is a decent shot. 

I'm not sure if I can agree by saying they're poised to potentially make the sweet 16.  They are an extremely fit team, but the offense just completely died half way through the season.  No true strikers on the squad.  If they didn't finish then, I don't see a reason why they would now.  But you never know in D3 soccer, anything can happen. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 05, 2016, 09:42:43 am
I thought RPI's selection last year was an abomination even though they played well in the tournament.  Teams shouldn't be rewarded for not making the top 4 of the LL, in RPI's case the top six.  As for Mr. Right throwing down the gauntlet about today's game--I have been wrong about individual results all year however two words for Skidmore's vaunted defense--Elmira and Union.  But for dropping a game to Hobart after going a man down Vassar has been nails at home.  They have by far the best offense in the league and Skidmore has beaten them about once in the last decade.  To me Vassar is an easy call.  On the LL awards, I agree with Baughen as POY.  Mrlik as a freshman won't get as much consideration and until the tournament did not have a game winning goal.  Defensive POY is Tyler Gilmore whose offensive presence is unmatched by any other defender in the LL.  Mrlik is the next Charlie Kelly, but unlike Kelly will be back next year given his family's legacy at Vassar.  Coaching staff goes to Coach Jennings and his crew.  Hobart returned a ton o players including vaunted underclassmen.  Vassar graduated 10 and returned no first or second teamers.  Arguably Vassar should have four first teamers this year with Mrlik, Gilmore, Gonzalez and Van Brewer.  Last year SLU had 10 LL payers which seems a tad overdone given their results this year.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 01:42:42 pm
Skidmore up 2-1 over Vassar with about 10 minutes left in the 1st half. I am sorry but Skidmore's spine is just much more athletic than Vassar's. Okoye just beat 3 defenders by himself and finish to give Skidmore the lead. That type of skill and athleticism Vassar cannot match IMO.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 05, 2016, 02:06:51 pm
Skidmore up 2-1 over Vassar with about 10 minutes left in the 1st half. I am sorry but Skidmore's spine is just much more athletic than Vassar's. Okoye just beat 3 defenders by himself and finish to give Skidmore the lead. That type of skill and athleticism Vassar cannot match IMO.

And the other half of Skidmore's dynamic duo, Oyeniyi, is dominating on the defensive end.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 02:28:40 pm
That is a VERY questionable PK call by the ref in the Skidmore v Vassar game which Vassar converts to tie the game 2-2.....In the old days you would call that a "homer" call...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 02:55:45 pm
Okoye inches away from giving Skidmore a 3-2 lead but just did not get all of it...Still 2-2...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 03:03:08 pm
Both Gk's for Skidmore and Vassar look a bit suspect to me. Vassar's GK looks like he lacks some height which MUST pose problems on set pieces.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 03:06:01 pm
UNBELIEVABLE......Vassar gets another PK on a VERY QUESTIONABLE PK call. Vassar wins the game 3-2 off of 2 PK's that were HOMER calls. How a ref can ruin a season like that is ridiculous. Shameful really...He should be black-balled and get back to the high school game
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 05, 2016, 07:48:58 pm
I thought RPI's selection last year was an abomination even though they played well in the tournament.  Teams shouldn't be rewarded for not making the top 4 of the LL, in RPI's case the top six.  As for Mr. Right throwing down the gauntlet about today's game--I have been wrong about individual results all year however two words for Skidmore's vaunted defense--Elmira and Union.  But for dropping a game to Hobart after going a man down Vassar has been nails at home.  They have by far the best offense in the league and Skidmore has beaten them about once in the last decade.  To me Vassar is an easy call.  On the LL awards, I agree with Baughen as POY.  Mrlik as a freshman won't get as much consideration and until the tournament did not have a game winning goal.  Defensive POY is Tyler Gilmore whose offensive presence is unmatched by any other defender in the LL.  Mrlik is the next Charlie Kelly, but unlike Kelly will be back next year given his family's legacy at Vassar.  Coaching staff goes to Coach Jennings and his crew.  Hobart returned a ton o players including vaunted underclassmen.  Vassar graduated 10 and returned no first or second teamers.  Arguably Vassar should have four first teamers this year with Mrlik, Gilmore, Gonzalez and Van Brewer.  Last year SLU had 10 LL payers which seems a tad overdone given their results this year.     

Hmm: Hobart graduated eight of the top 16 players (by minutes) in 2016, lost their assistant coach (to become head coach at Stevens) five days before pre-season, brought in 13 new players, lost four starters to season-ending injuries and turned out to have an OK season.  Congrats to them and to Shawn Griffin.  Binjo Emmanual had to sit out first four games and made a big impact when he got on field (and would be a top three pick for DPOY, though for me the clear top choice is Skidmore's Adebare Oyeniyi).

Congrats to Vassar for finding a way to win, and to the impressive parity of the LL this year.  If this group of teams, and LL newcomer Ithaca, can do a bit better against the out-of-league opponents in 2017, they will start seeing more teams in NCAA.  This year it will be Vassar (who is not defensively stout enough to advance from the first weekend).

A big shout-out to all the seniors, across all the teams, for their commitment and passion to soccer!
Good luck to all in the off-season, there are 286 days until training camps open next Fall.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 05, 2016, 08:11:28 pm
I am still left stunned at how that ref is reffing college games after gifting Vassar their NCAA berth. I have no ties to the Skidmore program so imagine how Skidmore feels right now. You could see Skidmore Head Coach Kneeland absolutely blasting the ref after the final whistle.

I do agree that the LL is kind of like Nescac in the fact that some teams under perform out of conference as they do not "get up" for those games as much as LL games. Teams like Hobart and RPI are always challenging themselves out of conference they just need to pick up a few more wins. Hobart ends the season 9-5-4 with a .580 SOS which is solid and had they turned 2 of those early season losses into wins they would be in the NCAA's. Still, they are #5 in the region even with the rough start and change 2 losses into wins they would be ahead of SLU in the rankings at #4 with a Pool C. Right now they are on the bubble but a real long shot because of the 9 blemishes it is almost impossible but if you look around the country a ton of teams have 7-8-9 blemishes. Selection Monday should be interesting.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 05, 2016, 09:13:06 pm
I am still left stunned at how that ref is reffing college games after gifting Vassar their NCAA berth. I have no ties to the Skidmore program so imagine how Skidmore feels right now. You could see Skidmore Head Coach Kneeland absolutely blasting the ref after the final whistle.

It's definitely a tough pill to swallow for the Thoroughbreds, and I think the majority of the Skidmore faithful shares your sentiments.  I spoke with someone who was at the game and in position to see the play that led to the second PK up close.  It was a smart play by the Vassar player to monitor the flight of the cross and get set up to receive the ball, turn, and move toward goal knowing that contact was likely to occur.  The reaction by the Skidmore player suggested an acknowledgement that he had made a mistake.  If the ref hadn't made the call, the Brewer fans would have been in an uproar. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2016, 12:13:19 pm
MAYBE....MAYBE ...Still a tough call to make as it looked like the Vassar kid almost collided with the  Skidmore kid on purpose to initiate the contact bringing both down. The 1ST PK WAS A COMPLETE JOKE,  Vassar was gifted that Championship and NCAA berth.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: diesel on November 06, 2016, 01:23:29 pm
Skidmore blew the game themselves. They came out in the first half and were all over Vassar- they couldn't keep up and Skidmore had a deserved lead at halftime. But in the second half that changed. Vassar weren't considerably better but they only allowed Skidmore 1-2 clear chances in the second half, which unfortunately they couldn't finish.

Both penalties were clear cut fouls- and the Vassar players certainly embellished the fouls- but when your game plan is to play physically/actively foul Vassar players, you have to expect that plan to backfire. There were late tackles flying in all over- and three Vassar players left the field injured throughout the game. On the last penalty Oyeniyi clearly knew that he hacked down the Vassar player (he didn't question the call at all?) and that it was a foul. The Vassar player was clearly looking for it too- but Oyeniyi took the bait. Very unfortunate for a player of his caliber, after dominating throughout the game, to cost Skidmore the title. First penalty was a bit softer- but the Skidmore player very visibly had two arms around the Vassar player and pulled him down.

Vassar's performance was unconvincing. Had Skidmore exercised more self control with their physicality they would have been champions. Exhaustion from OT/pk shootout with Hobart on Wednesday a cause?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2016, 01:42:39 pm
Skidmore blew the game themselves. They came out in the first half and were all over Vassar- they couldn't keep up and Skidmore had a deserved lead at halftime. But in the second half that changed. Vassar weren't considerably better but they only allowed Skidmore 1-2 clear chances in the second half, which unfortunately they couldn't finish.

Both penalties were clear cut fouls- and the Vassar players certainly embellished the fouls- but when your game plan is to play physically/actively foul Vassar players, you have to expect that plan to backfire. There were late tackles flying in all over- and three Vassar players left the field injured throughout the game. On the last penalty Oyeniyi clearly knew that he hacked down the Vassar player (he didn't question the call at all?) and that it was a foul. The Vassar player was clearly looking for it too- but Oyeniyi took the bait. Very unfortunate for a player of his caliber, after dominating throughout the game, to cost Skidmore the title. First penalty was a bit softer- but the Skidmore player very visibly had two arms around the Vassar player and pulled him down.




Vassar's performance was unconvincing. Had Skidmore exercised more self control with their physicality they would have been champions. Exhaustion from OT/pk shootout with Hobart on Wednesday a cause?



I agree with everythin you posted but I thought the PK's were soft calls...You are correct that Skidmore could have had 1 or 2 more goals in the 1st Half that they dominated but again they could not get it done in the end. Okoye's goal 1st Half was brilliant and they had a chance near the end of the game to go up 3-2 but missed by inched. Oh well...Should be interesting to see where Vassar is headed in the NCAA's. Does the committee send them to a New England Region pod or do they stay in a New York pod possibly at Cortland?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 06, 2016, 02:10:23 pm
It will be interesting to see how far Vassar goes.  Assuming they don't host, they have played very few games on the road and  it took some well-timed penalties at home against Union and Skidmore to be where they are.  In fact, if Hobart clinches the deal in penalties against Skidmore, or Skidmore holds on for the last six minutes against Union, Vassar has to clinch on the road and the story likely would have been very much different.  Be that as it may, Skidmore's blown game against Union put them in a position to lose because of some home-influenced calls (someone has to be truly hammered to draw a penalty with 3 seconds left) and overall Vassar is a much better NCAA representative than Skidmore based on its performance throughout the season.  Vassar will return all of their impact players next year barring a transfer or injury so the rest of the league has a year to figure out how to shut down their very productive offense.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2016, 02:15:19 pm
I think it is a little much to say that Vassar will be a MUCh better representative than Skidmore in the NCAA's. Vassar will NOT be hosting anything as they will be sent on the road
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: diesel on November 06, 2016, 03:08:41 pm
I have watched Vassar throughout the season- when they are playing their game they a are very, very good team. The games that stood out to me were their games against UofR and SLU. Despite the stats of 14-5 shots on the UofR game, Vassar were all over Rochester. The Vassar keeper was only forced to make 4 saves the entire game- all the other shots were off target from long distance. Vassar ran circles around Rochester, and at one point in the second half they looked untouchable. And in the SLU game Vassar had an incredible amount of chances to score and put SLU away- SLU scored off a wondergoal and hung on as much as they could.

How Vassar does in the NCAA's will really depend on who they face. Teams like Skidmore, Union, and Hobart were Vassar's toughest challenges because of their physically grinding gameplay and/or high intensity pressure. If they face a team that can coordinate an organized, high intensity press, Vassar will struggle. But if they play against a team which allows them easy possession in the back, Vassar will stomp their opponent (RPI's press was nonexistent in the semi- and look what happened). In previous years Vassar has folded when faced with this intense pressure and physicality, but this year they appear to be better at managing the challenge and responding- and the penalties against Union and Skidmore were a result of Vassar responding well and continuing their possession based game, which tends to draw fouls (they drew the most Pk's in the regular season- tied with SLU).

On their day, I think that Vassar is most certainly the best team in the LL. They have shown the ability to grind out wins even when faced with tough opposition. And although I recognize that Skidmore has a very talented and capable team, they had some questionable results this season, such as the loss to Elmira at home and choking a lead up to a Union team without two of their main players (red cards from Vassar game). However, the LL championship visibly showed Vassar's weakness against a strong physical team. It will be very interesting to see where they are placed and who they play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2016, 03:17:16 pm
I have only see Vassar 3 times this season on the stream but they look like a good not great but good side. My concern would be in net as their GK looks a tad short and if they play a team with some height and good on set pieces that could be a liability.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: diesel on November 06, 2016, 03:25:07 pm
The replacement goalie from yesterday actually looked more willing to come out and get the ball on set pieces than the starter- he seems to be much more of a raw and athletic goalie. Unfortunately his height does present a challenge to him- if Vassar were to play a team like Amherst it would be quite a show.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 06, 2016, 03:59:08 pm
For Skidmore, it was a season of missed opportunities.  As Diesel noted, the Elmira game and the Union game stand out, along with the Baruch game and the second half of yesterday's game, with Vassar's starting GK and half the starting back line (including the athletic Gilmore, the player presumably tasked with handling Okoye) knocked out of the game with injuries.

My impression over the course of the season was that Vassar was the most balanced team in the league from the back line through the midfield into the attacking third, which helped them game-in and game-out but may not serve them as well in a single elimination context.  Special players often determine a team's fate in  tournament settings and Skidmore had, in my mind, the league's two most special players.  That said, the NCAA tournament features teams with both balance AND special players, which is why I think that SLU, if they get in, has the highest ceiling of a LL team in the tournament, particularly with Vassar potentially missing some key players on the defensive end.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: DIII41 on November 06, 2016, 06:23:46 pm
https://boxcast.tv/highlights/liberty-league-championships---vassar-mens-soccer-vs-skidmore-385170/652713/ifnajjnhf4nglojcbu13     

video link to play that resulted in PK of Vassar/Skidmore.  a PK call that would be made "all day long"!   Defender had player going away from goal, and obviously only had to challenge him to hold that position ....But diving in was a disastrous temptation.  Ouch! 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on November 06, 2016, 06:32:47 pm
Anybody know why SLU only played 15 games?  Seems 2-3 short, even without the LL playoffs.  And I don't see any canceled games.  13-4 or 12-4-1 would look a little better obviously than 11-4.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 06, 2016, 08:16:34 pm
They haven't been scheduling as much games in recent years.  I'm not sure why.  They've left UofR off the schedule the last 2 years, which was always an annual non-conference matchup.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on November 06, 2016, 08:22:47 pm
They haven't been scheduling as much games in recent years.  I'm not sure why.  They've left UofR off the schedule the last 2 years, which was always an annual non-conference matchup.

More like UofR left SLU off the schedule.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 07, 2016, 11:13:14 am
They haven't been scheduling as much games in recent years.  I'm not sure why.  They've left UofR off the schedule the last 2 years, which was always an annual non-conference matchup.

U of R didn't like making the trip to the North Country for the back-to-back games vs. SLU and Clarkson, because the UAA plays Friday/Sunday.  I'm guessing that U of R was also tired of getting beat on by SLU, usually resulting in them having a loss to another top team in the East.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 07, 2016, 01:19:05 pm
SLU stumbles and skates their way into the tourney.  Personally, I didn't think they were deserving, but once I saw Rochester in I felt pretty confident they would grab a bid.  Tough test against Wash & Lee, but anything can happen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 07, 2016, 01:23:04 pm
SLU sneaks in with the last matchup announced in the show. Definitely a tough draw, but for them to get a chance at all is fortunate.  They're also in Cortland's region, who they beat this year and acutally beat last year at Cortland.  With this being the most questionable SLU squad since 2009, maybe they piece it together and make a run? The best teams they've had in the past 8 years have all faltered in the Sweet 16, so we shall see!

Let's dance!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 07, 2016, 01:57:17 pm
Second year in a row the LL sends a team that didn't make the conference tournament to the NCAAs. Hmm. Kind of devalues the conference tournament, doesn't it. Would Hobart have gotten in if they didn't lose to Skidmore in the LL tourney?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: just4kix on November 07, 2016, 02:18:36 pm
Second year in a row the LL sends a team that didn't make the conference tournament to the NCAAs. Hmm. Kind of devalues the conference tournament, doesn't it. Would Hobart have gotten in if they didn't lose to Skidmore in the LL tourney?

I think it's the other way around.  The conference tournament devalues the regular season.  The sole purpose is to determine a conference's AQ.  For others who qualify but don't win, it's just another set of games in your overall body of work.  I don't understand conference tournaments except as a money grab in revenue-generating sports.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 07, 2016, 02:28:58 pm
It is a terrible precedent.  Given the way that SLU was playing they would have picked up a 5th loss in the LL tournament if they had made it with a 4-4 record.  Might as well go to a UAA system, eliminate the tourney and have the league winner be the automatic qualifier.  I use to think that the committee used to take into account year end performance more than pre-season, a time when teams are getting the kinks out.  SLU, Brandeis, Tufts all lose their last game to lesser opponents and still make the tourney.  Rochester goes 1-3-1 in last five with a losing UAA record and makes the tourney.  Might as well start giving legacy berths.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 08, 2016, 03:26:38 pm
I can sympathize and partially agree with some of the views regarding SLU's bid to the dance.
I will say though that if the  bids are predicated on RvR which I translate to meaning that the definition of a good team is one that consistently beats good teams, then the Saints are understandable if not deserved participants.

This team for all its problems putting the ball in the back of the net did beat a good Plattsburgh team at home (while Plattsburgh was playing its best soccer of the year), went undefeated playing most of the SUNYAC (arguably one of the toughest conferences in the country).

Beat a very good Vassar team.

Losses to Hobart/Skidmore and RPI no doubt hurt, but those are good teams, and St. Lawrence competed well in all those losses.

I think the program was robbed by not getting a bid in 2006, as I thought we deserved it more that year, but that's just soccer.

*Please take the above with a grain of salt as well, I am self aware enough to understand that subconsciously I might not be the most objective*
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 08, 2016, 05:23:52 pm
I think the Cortland win was a good one. However, the others they played including Plattsburgh were not up to snuff and had they played Oneonta we would have a better idea. Oneonta will play anyone anywhere so i highly doubt they were not interested or have been interested to get SLU on their schedule. Maybe UR dropped SLU but i would bet SLU declines to play Oneonta which is a shame.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 09, 2016, 02:47:50 am
Mrlik is the next Charlie Kelly, but unlike Kelly will be back next year given his family's legacy at Vassar.     

Your post got me thinking about how Hobart's star might have risen had Kelly stayed (he would have been a senior this year) and about how important retention of players is to a program's success.  One wonders how things might have worked out differently had, for example, Nick Martinelli stayed at Skidmore (he also would have been a senior this year) and Austin Dilts remained at St. Lawrence (which reminds me, is Chandler Short, former LL RoY, still at SLU?). 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 09, 2016, 10:06:11 am
I think the Cortland win was a good one. However, the others they played including Plattsburgh were not up to snuff and had they played Oneonta we would have a better idea. Oneonta will play anyone anywhere so i highly doubt they were not interested or have been interested to get SLU on their schedule. Maybe UR dropped SLU but i would bet SLU declines to play Oneonta which is a shame.

Oneonta and SLU have been in talks to get each other on the calendar for a 2-3 year contract. They play each other in spring or presesason regularly, with SLU beating Oneonta last spring in Oneonta. Should be a great fixture for years to come.

Mrlik is the next Charlie Kelly, but unlike Kelly will be back next year given his family's legacy at Vassar.     

Your post got me thinking about how Hobart's star might have risen had Kelly stayed (he would have been a senior this year) and about how important retention of players is to a program's success.  One wonders how things might have worked out differently had, for example, Nick Martinelli stayed at Skidmore (he also would have been a senior this year) and Austin Dilts remained at St. Lawrence (which reminds me, is Chandler Short, former LL RoY, still at SLU?). 

Short is no longer at SLU. Not really sure what happened there.  I will tell you that SLU has some seriously dangerous players that were either injured or no eligible this year, on top of an elite recruiting class. Looking forward to seeing what happens there next year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 09, 2016, 10:23:58 am
Short was a great Saint who would have only enhanced his legacy had he stayed.
He was also good for about 4 goals a year which is sorely missing in the squad.

Austin Diltz (as stated somewhere else earlier) was a special talent who is also missed, and the potential gem of this years freshman's class did not play...
Still, I think the team has a Saint or two on the roster now who are all-time greats and a few with the potential to be.

Hunger is the last ingredient needed to make a big run, we will see how much is there this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 11, 2016, 11:30:47 pm
The Saints definitely represented themselves and the league well in PA tonight.  They outplayed W&L from start to finish, but things did not go their way in PKs.  It's a tough way to go out for the seniors, but valuable experience for the rest of the squad. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 11, 2016, 11:46:36 pm
SLU loses in PKS. Injustice ended yet not rectified.  SLU can still tell recruits that they make the NCAAs every year no matter what their league performance.  SLU putting 7 on the all LL team with the most points for any team (3 for First Team, 2 for Second, 1 for HM) was also an injustice that also will never be remedied.  I know this board has a bunch of SLU supporters but this was a down year for SLU and it should have been recognized as that by the NCAA and the League.  I respect your assessment of their play tonight but going out in the first round is not representing the league well.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 12, 2016, 09:52:13 pm
Brewers go down in OT.  The Vassar right mid got absolutely skinned on that goal.  CB whiffed on the clearance, slow moving ball as well.  Reminded me of Ronaldo's goal against Turkey in the 2002 World Cup.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 12, 2016, 10:42:19 pm
With a couple of notable exceptions, SLU's win over Cortland, and Vassar's win over Rochester, this was a down year for the LL.  Vassar runs out of home luck on the road in a game that was not as close as the score line.  E-Town looks to go left the entire second half and it finally paid off in overtime. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on November 13, 2016, 01:26:45 am
I'm not so sure that Vassar ran out of luck so much as ran out of players  ;)  It looked like 3 starters from last week's LL title game played 0 minutes tonight and one of the replacements (on the right side IIRC) went out with an injury in the first few minutes of the game and did not return. Teams can never have too much depth at this time of the season!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 09:32:46 am
-1 for deutschfan as saying SLU did not represent the LL well is ridiculous. I thought they did not deserve their Pool C bid and if it was a SLU team of old they would have easily dispatched that W&L team. I did not catch the ETOWN v Vassar game but it sounds like a soft goal they up?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 13, 2016, 01:10:27 pm
After many years on this board I was due to have my negative karma cherry broken.  As Tom Hanks said to Matt Damon at the end of "Saving Private Ryan"--"Earn this."  SLU did not earn its spot in the NCAA tourney and, once given the gift of post season life, didn't earn it there either.  One and done is not a distinguished showing.  Brandell gets the goal.  I didn't see the game so I don't know if the staff moved him forward to make up for the struggling offense.  If so, it was about time.  The goal against Vassar was a good run against a depleted right side.  Elizabethtown had fewer shots but better chances.  My hope next year is that the LL teams seek out top teams within the region and outside it, get quality wins, and maintain some consistency. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 13, 2016, 02:44:17 pm
Yes they moved Brandell up into central midfield.  Played Barrel-Arteta as a sweeper.  I said from the beginning that I didn't think SLU should have made it.  To me a loss against Clarkson was enough to offset a quality win.  They were the better team in regulation IMO, but W&L defended well.  SLU has been absolutely awful in PKs in recent years, so I had a pretty bad feeling once OT ended. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 13, 2016, 06:59:53 pm
Brandell did well in his midfield role.
Don't forget that this man led the team in scoring with 8 goals his sophomore year 2014 (before season ending injury in pre-season 2015.
Also had a few goals his freshman year and 2 game winners this year.
He is a great Saint and I for one hope he comes back next season.
It takes a special person/player to miss an entire year through injury, do all the hard work and rehab required and come back to play at a high level and captain a team where the competition is fiece.

As to the poster that opined the Saints were undeserving of a bid this year, and did not represent themselves well, I disagree.

Every Saint knows that we do not do well in penalties. We are very much like the English in that regard.
Losing in penalties is no shame, especially  when you out shoot and out posses the opponent by 60%.

Haverford, a very good team, lost today in penalties.
Penalties are a toss-up and anything can happen.
One thing that normally does is great players miss shots {Maybe the people who want it the most, place the most pressure on themselves)
Dr. Socratees
Zico
Roberto Baggio
Messi
to name a few.
The SLU #5 now finds himself on this list unfortunately, but it does not reflect negatively on how good these players or teams are.

Saints have work to do, and need strikers in a bad way (24 goals this season), but the team is very young and deep.

New Coach also deserves one more year at the helm I think to see his system and new way of doing things take hold, but I still think this teams best years are ahead of them.

As for a league as a whole, I also think the LL will be strong next year.
Vassar has some really good young Ballers
Hobart is legit with a great coaching staff
RPI as you know, can NEVER be counted out.
Clarkson are on an upswing
Skidmore were back to back tourney finalists.
Union finished strong and barely missed out.

Now, lets all cheer for the SUNYAC boyz!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on March 11, 2017, 02:27:59 pm
Liberty League will be a tough league next year, and hopefully more teams from the conference will find themselves dancing in 2017. If you could pick 11 players from any team in the LL era, who would be on your All Star team
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on March 23, 2017, 11:04:09 am
SLU with a very strong recruiting class coming in, building on some talented freshman last year (many of whom didn't get minutes due to injury).  Expect to see them back in the mix for the regular season title. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on March 23, 2017, 02:18:17 pm
SLU with a very strong recruiting class coming in, building on some talented freshman last year (many of whom didn't get minutes due to injury).  Expect to see them back in the mix for the regular season title.

Is Brandell coming back for his last year of eligibility?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 23, 2017, 12:47:41 am
SLU's schedule was just released.  Road warriors this year, only 1 non-conference home game and only 5 in total.  Solid non-conference schedule with Babson, Wheaton and Oneonta.  RI College is an interesting fixture, as they won their regular season last year.  The traditional Plattsburgh and Oswego games are there as expected.  No Potsdam or Canton, usually there's at least 1 game against them.  Looks like Tosh asked Durocher for a beefier out of conference schedule after last year's tourney scare.  Should be some tough tests for the young squad. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on June 26, 2017, 04:13:11 pm
SLU with a very strong recruiting class coming in, building on some talented freshman last year (many of whom didn't get minutes due to injury).  Expect to see them back in the mix for the regular season title.

Is Brandell coming back for his last year of eligibility?

Yes.
SLU #8 is coming back, and I think he will have a great senior year.
This man scored twice in the NCAA Tourney his freshman year
Came back as a top scorer in 2014
Missed the entire 2015 with an injury sustained in preseason.
Played a great season last year in a brand new position and scored the teams only goal in the dance.

He is quite a player and should lead a much more talented SLU squad in 2017.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on June 27, 2017, 01:45:29 am
SLU with a very strong recruiting class coming in, building on some talented freshman last year (many of whom didn't get minutes due to injury).  Expect to see them back in the mix for the regular season title.

Is Brandell coming back for his last year of eligibility?

Yes.
SLU #8 is coming back, and I think he will have a great senior year.
This man scored twice in the NCAA Tourney his freshman year
Came back as a top scorer in 2014
Missed the entire 2015 with an injury sustained in preseason.
Played a great season last year in a brand new position and scored the teams only goal in the dance.

He is quite a player and should lead a much more talented SLU squad in 2017.

Excellent news.  He's been a huge part of the team as you've described.  There have been some redshirt guys that have not returned for their last season of eligibility in recent years so I was expecting him to do the same.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on June 27, 2017, 08:34:17 pm
Oh yes.
That trend needed to be broken.
Big year for the program.
With Ithaca in the mix it wont get any easier in the conference, but with a good non conference schedule and a few good men coming in, hopefully we will be able to compete in a strong conference with Vassar, Hobart, a recently strong Skidmore squad, the ever dangerous RPI and an up and coming Union squad who should be much improved.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on June 29, 2017, 03:52:26 pm
Oh yes.
That trend needed to be broken.
Big year for the program.
With Ithaca in the mix it wont get any easier in the conference, but with a good non conference schedule and a few good men coming in, hopefully we will be able to compete in a strong conference with Vassar, Hobart, a recently strong Skidmore squad, the ever dangerous RPI and an up and coming Union squad who should be much improved.

Saint, you need not be so pessimistic.  To me the question is not whether SLU "will be able to compete," but whether they will be able to resume their domination of the league.  The talent is certainly there for that to happen, and the squad showed signs last year of returning to the level of play to which we had all grown accustomed. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 02, 2017, 08:38:44 am
Not sure Omma,

I hope so, but as you know as a veteran as well it is a big difference between having potential, being good on paper and actually producing.
With a 6 team playoff it means that each conference game has even added significance for all the teams.

I just have a feeling that Union come very hard this year and no way to count out hungry Vassar trying to go back to back for the first time in their history.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 02, 2017, 08:40:23 am
How about some old school Liberty League (UCAA) action while we wait for the league to begin.

As a Jamaican prophet once said "Good things don't get old, they become classic!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX2FE_iqPF4
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 02, 2017, 11:46:49 pm
Wow, thanks for linking that SoO.  Watched all the vids so far.  I went to a few of these games as a kid, brings back memories. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on July 06, 2017, 10:49:28 am
How about we throw it back to one of the most memorable games in recent LL playoff history. What a crowd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3MvqxM8_jA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3MvqxM8_jA)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 06, 2017, 11:47:32 am
I was @ that game!
I think I rushed the field as well!

That was a wonderful season, then 2011 the team almost went all the way.

Ohhhh, that famous SLU # 7shirt :)

Waiting to see who wears it this year...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on July 06, 2017, 02:16:42 pm
Some great finishes in that highlight and the thru ball to #7 on the 2nd goal was fantastic
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 10, 2017, 08:19:10 pm
This is why you Sir are a Baller!
You didn't complement the run (which was good) or the finish (also great), but you saw the pass!!!!
What a pass that was, shows vision/timing/skill avoiding an offside call.
Absolutely brilliant.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 11, 2017, 05:55:16 pm
Hate to break up the SLU love fest but it is time to start looking forward to the fall for all the Liberty League teams, not only last year's fifth place league finisher.  There has been some Union hype permeating this board and the emerging teams board.  Union is not going to make the dance this year or any year until they start playing quality non-conference teams.  Their 2017 schedule is incredibly soft even by Union standards.  Perhaps the RPI and SLU precedents of making the NCAA tourney without making the LL tourney based on non-conference wins has convinced the Union coaching staff that fixtures with cream puffs is the way to go.  At least RPI and SLU played some quality non-conference opponents in their asterisk seasons.  Its summer and I can smell the pre-season.  Looking forward to the banter.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on July 11, 2017, 10:58:15 pm
I was @ that game!
I think I rushed the field as well!

That was a wonderful season, then 2011 the team almost went all the way.

Ohhhh, that famous SLU # 7shirt :)

Waiting to see who wears it this year...



Isnt that the new Hobart assistant coach? Bednarsky?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 12, 2017, 08:29:57 am
Yes.
That is Andrew Bender the new Hobart asst Coach.
Which leads to a perfect transition from our Saint lovefest :)

Hobart was a very good team last year. I think it was a shame they did not get a bid, but clearly they are a strong team who will no doubt challenge again. I think having Bender helped this team who was already well coached.
The last few years they seem to just have a few unexplainable bad losses, but when they come to play they are a handful for anyone in the league.

The LL is much like the Premiership in that there are always 6 teams competing for 4 spots.

With Ithaca joining this year the struggle to get into one of the 6 spots does not get much easier.
I can easily see: Union/Clarkson/Hobart/Ithaca/ Skidmore/SLU/RPI/RIT getting a top 6 positions, which means 2 teams will be missing out.

It seems Union is due, I know from experience they have a solid alumni and the program will have post season expectations especially now.
Union has to improve their  non-conference however.
SLU has dropped Potsdam in favor of Oneonta.
Although Potsdam is a much improved program, Oneonta is one of the strongest teams in the region.

One thing we will not see now however is a team making dance without making LL post season.
It wont happen so no more asterisk seasons for anyone!

I agree, I cannot wait for the season to begin.
This is a very even league I think and we might end up with 4 teams in the LL playoffs who were not there in 2016.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on July 12, 2017, 12:09:44 pm
With Ithaca joining this year the struggle to get into one of the 6 spots does not get much easier.
I can easily see: Union/Clarkson/Hobart/Ithaca/ Skidmore/SLU/RPI/RIT getting a top 6 positions, which means 2 teams will be missing out.

I think that the Vassar Brewers have a good shot at making the LL playoffs as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on July 12, 2017, 12:15:24 pm
I thought Clarkson was much improved last year and can see a difference in the job the coach is doing as they were very competitive in most LL contests and just missed out on the Play-offs.

With Skidmore graduating some key players I would assume they drop off considerably unless they bring in a couple studs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 12, 2017, 12:42:54 pm
At this juncture without announcements about the incoming class I look at returners, and especially returning all league players.  SLU's finish last year was an anomaly.  Despite some talented frontrunners the goals dried up in league.  They return almost everyone except Noah Bunton, a second teamer who happened to get first team all-region with mediocre stats and over the LL player of the year, Devon Baughen.  Ridiculous, but getting back to the issue--SLU will be in the hunt.  Vassar returns everyone and their senior class has a number of four year starters.  They are a lock as well.  I agree that Skidmore missed its best chance when the only All American in the LL last year hacked a Vassar player in the box of a tie game with a minute left.  Unless Skidmore reloads they are going to be looking in from the outside.  Coach Taylor has had Clarkson on the rise since taking over and the obvious next step is the playoffs.  I don't understand the notion that Ithaca is going to have an immediate impact.  Historically they have fared very poorly against LL opponents, and indeed, against all their non-conference foes.  I see them as a spoiler with an upward trajectory over the next few years as opposed to RIT which started as a LL finalist and has been on the decline ever since.  Union may make the playoffs but only if the difficult non-conference schedule takes a toll on the other teams due to injury while Union cake walks through its fixtures.  Otherwise, they will not be ready for the caliber of teams they will be playing when the LL games commence. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on July 12, 2017, 02:57:26 pm
Hobart has really come up with a challenging schedule this year. Out of conference games are:

ECONN, Brandeis, Rochester, Cortland, Geneseo, Potsdam and Utica.

Add that to their LL schedule and you are looking at a .585-.590 SOS. Now Hobart had a similar challenging schedule last year but they stumbled hard to open the year and closed with a 3-4-2 record Out of Conference and after a 6-1-1 Conference record they were left out of the NCAA's because of that non-conference record and some really lopsided losses to NCAA teams for instance a 5-0 thrashing by Cortland.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on July 12, 2017, 03:11:26 pm
Vassar has a interesting schedule with 3 very challenging games against Wesleyan, Oneonta and at Stevens with 4 cupcakes sprinkled in
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on July 12, 2017, 03:21:47 pm
Yep: Hobart had injury problems early that led to some poor results, and then a stinker against Cortland. Suspect they could have overcome either, but not both, for NCAA consideration. 2017 beckons and Griffin has stocked his non-conference schedule again. 

Suspect that SLU and Vassar will be contending with Hobart, RPI and possibly Clarkson for top four. Skidmore and Union could be in the mix, too.  Bard, Ithaca and RIT are all able to get wins in conference games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 12, 2017, 03:33:14 pm
With Ithaca joining this year the struggle to get into one of the 6 spots does not get much easier.
I can easily see: Union/Clarkson/Hobart/Ithaca/ Skidmore/SLU/RPI/RIT getting a top 6 positions, which means 2 teams will be missing out.

I think that the Vassar Brewers have a good shot at making the LL playoffs as well.

Total oversight on my part.
Vassar not only will be in the mix, but the defending conference champions are definitely one of the favorites to win the league.
The boyz from down south have been doing quite well over the last decade or so and as I said in another thread an up and coming power in the region and possibly nation.

I would go as far as saying every single team in the LL has a chance of making the playoffs which is now expanded to 6 teams.

Bard is perhaps the odd man out, but their coach before his sad and sudden passing, had Bard on the upswing as well, winning conference games and competing week in week out with some great games even when they lost.

What a year this will be in the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: sokermom on July 19, 2017, 09:15:12 am
At this juncture without announcements about the incoming class I look at returners, and especially returning all league players.  SLU's finish last year was an anomaly.  Despite some talented frontrunners the goals dried up in league.  They return almost everyone except Noah Bunton, a second teamer who happened to get first team all-region with mediocre stats and over the LL player of the year, Devon Baughen.  Ridiculous, but getting back to the issue--SLU will be in the hunt.  Vassar returns everyone and their senior class has a number of four year starters.  They are a lock as well.  I agree that Skidmore missed its best chance when the only All American in the LL last year hacked a Vassar player in the box of a tie game with a minute left.  Unless Skidmore reloads they are going to be looking in from the outside.  Coach Taylor has had Clarkson on the rise since taking over and the obvious next step is the playoffs.  I don't understand the notion that Ithaca is going to have an immediate impact.  Historically they have fared very poorly against LL opponents, and indeed, against all their non-conference foes.  I see them as a spoiler with an upward trajectory over the next few years as opposed to RIT which started as a LL finalist and has been on the decline ever since.  Union may make the playoffs but only if the difficult non-conference schedule takes a toll on the other teams due to injury while Union cake walks through its fixtures.  Otherwise, they will not be ready for the caliber of teams they will be playing when the LL games commence.

During the recruitment circuit last year, my son watched Clarkson vs. RIT that ended in a tie.  I remember my son saying soccer was bad.  RIT coach played his freshman son in the center and he was not that good.  This year, I think RIT did draw D1 transfer players from a program (Univ. of Albany?) that disbanded. So RIT may be good.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on July 19, 2017, 10:38:50 am
University of Albany did not disband and actually coach Gorman who is legendary Penn State coach Trevor Gorman's son has done a really nice job turning that program around. He got to the 2nd Round of the NCAA's and beat BC 3-0 in the 1st round. This program was an absolute doormat about 7-8 years ago under overmatched Head Coach Johan Arroyo and went 1-15-0 and got fired. He was a former Head Coach at RPI and drove both programs into the ground. Gorman has done very well at Albany and should be in the discussion for Top schools in D1 when they open.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dog Face on July 19, 2017, 11:28:09 am
It's U Buffalo that dropped soccer
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on July 19, 2017, 01:06:45 pm
University of Albany did not disband and actually coach Gorman who is legendary Penn State coach Trevor Gorman's son has done a really nice job turning that program around.
Small correction--got their names mixed: Barry is the father; Trevor the son.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on July 19, 2017, 02:39:20 pm
Yes...I meant Barry Gorman
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: sokermom on July 19, 2017, 04:25:00 pm
It's U Buffalo that dropped soccer

Thanks.  I didn't remember...knew it was some NY program.  Anyways, heard that RIT snagged some of those players.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 21, 2017, 12:56:31 pm
Coach Taylor issued a press release on the incoming Clarkson class. Defenders and midfielders with no USSDA platers identified. He had a bunch of forwards already on his roster so maybe he didn't think he needed another frontrunner or one simply did not sign up. I wish other LL teams would post releases about their new classes. SLU did so last year and some other D3 schools are getting in the act. If a soccer power like Cal Tech does it everyone should. It is SOP for D1 schools.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: sokermom on July 21, 2017, 01:38:38 pm
Coach Taylor issued a press release on the incoming Clarkson class. Defenders and midfielders with no USSDA platers identified. He had a bunch of forwards already on his roster so maybe he didn't think he needed another frontrunner or one simply did not sign up. I wish other LL teams would post releases about their new classes. SLU did so last year and some other D3 schools are getting in the act. If a soccer power like Cal Tech does it everyone should. It is SOP for D1 schools.

Clarkson is a good school but so darn difficult to get to.  No airport no nothing.  My son was courted by Coach Taylor but once we figured that flying or driving it takes one full day to reach there and in winter all roads become impassable we took a pass on that school.  Great engineering school with co-op and 100% job assurance after graduation.  Good opportunity for kids living near by driving distance in NY. But can understand why they can't attract players. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on July 21, 2017, 01:48:32 pm
Coach Taylor issued a press release on the incoming Clarkson class. Defenders and midfielders with no USSDA platers identified. He had a bunch of forwards already on his roster so maybe he didn't think he needed another frontrunner or one simply did not sign up. I wish other LL teams would post releases about their new classes. SLU did so last year and some other D3 schools are getting in the act. If a soccer power like Cal Tech does it everyone should. It is SOP for D1 schools.

Clarkson is a good school but so darn difficult to get to.  No airport no nothing.  My son was courted by Coach Taylor but once we figured that flying or driving it takes one full day to reach there and in winter all roads become impassable we took a pass on that school.  Great engineering school with co-op and 100% job assurance after graduation.  Good opportunity for kids living near by driving distance in NY. But can understand why they can't attract players.

Funny, because SLU is 10 minutes away and attracts players from California, the mid-Atlantic, the Toronto area, and the Caribbean on a regular basis.  I don't think that's a valid argument.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: sokermom on July 21, 2017, 01:52:57 pm
@SandyMac, in our case that was the reason.  Maybe I am wrong in generalizing it. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on July 21, 2017, 02:03:21 pm
I wish other LL teams would post releases about their new classes. SLU did so last year and some other D3 schools are getting in the act. If a soccer power like Cal Tech does it everyone should. It is SOP for D1 schools.

As a fan, I really appreciate and enjoy the press releases announcing the incoming classes. Some coaches, however, do not want to "tip their hands" regarding their new players, and some institutions refrain from such announcements to avoid perceptions of "overemphasis" on sport.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 21, 2017, 03:53:51 pm
Two valid points but I don't think schools like Cal Tech and the University of Chicago are too worried about being characterized as jock schools.  Same is true with all the Nescacs, UAAs,  the Centennials, and the Liberty League schools.  That is not to say that fine athletes are not on the campuses of all of those schools. Union won the D1 men's hockey championship in the near past.  However, even for those athletes the primary concern is academics and life afyer college athletics.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Dog Face on July 21, 2017, 04:07:15 pm
We've been really impressed by Coach Taylor's marketing- he's at the tournaments, follows up with emails, send updates and videos on how they're doing and what they're trying to accomplish.  Selling the strong points of the school and explaining what he's trying to do in building a program.

He's got some obstacles in recruiting (not a recognized LL program historically, middle of nowhere, 70% guys, D1 hockey).  I never met the guy, as it wasn't what my sons were looking for (we did visit St. L- flew into Albany), but based on his marketing (based on the content, and the fact that he seems to be putting in the effort to build a program), I've recommended that kids looking for engineering give it a look.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: sokermom on July 21, 2017, 04:57:18 pm
@Dog Face, agree 100% with you regarding Clarkson.  Seems like a good school with a program looking to rise above the fray.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on July 21, 2017, 09:57:35 pm
If you flew into Albany then you could have flown into Ogdensburg which is pretty close to Clarkson/SLU.  It's a small plane but gets you there. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on July 22, 2017, 05:26:22 pm
Coach Taylor has great rapport with his players and that has to help recruiting.  Clarkson looks like it is on a similar trajectory to the program of another Andy Jennings former assistant, Nate Gibboney.  In 5 years Coach Gibboney turned around a program at a 1300 student liberal arts college in the middle of Pennsylvania to dethrone Messiah.  Incredible accomplishment.  The SLU win last year should have been program defining for Clarkson.  Alas, the committee gifted SLU an NCAA birth so I assume players looking at SLU and Clarkson will hear from the SLU side that we always go to the playoffs pretty much no matter what.  That is a tough fact for Coach Taylor to recruit against.  Back to back wins against SLU, and SLU not making the NCAA playoffs in 2017 would start to level the playing field. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on July 24, 2017, 09:31:05 am
Clarkson is a program that made it to the Final 4 in the mid 90s and was consistently one of the best teams in the region during hat decade. It has been a rough 15 years for the program.

Taylor was a class player and accomplished a lot during his college years.
The former Coach was also an All American and quality player in college.

Hopefully the local law enforcement does not try and frame Taylor as well and the program should fight for that 6th and final playoff spot.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 04, 2017, 02:16:35 pm
Honored to put up the first August 2017 LL thread post.  Coaches preseason poll out and no LL team received any votes.  Since the poll usually mirrors the previous year's NCAA performance, the absence is not surprising given SLU and Vassar's early exits.  However, looking at the number of players who graduated from those teams in 2017 both should have been ranked or at least received votes imho.  Both teams have a tremendous core of impact players returning.  On a different subject, RPI's summer trip to Costa Rica gives them an edge going into the season.  Last time they went to Costa Rica in 2014 they made waves in the LL and wound up losing in the LL playoff finals 1-0 to SLU.  RPI should have received an NCAA bid that year.  The snub probably resulted in the gift they received in 2015.  That is neither here nor there to the main point that teams that travel abroad to play in the summer have a substantial advantage over teams that don't.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 04, 2017, 03:13:57 pm
I would prefer to stay unranked entering the season.  SLU's reputation still carries a lot of weight, but a ranking puts a target on your back early.  Decent core returning for this year's SLU squad.  5th year senior Rob Brandell is going to be a major presence on the team.  Tosh got a good haul of recruits as well.  I think the league is going to be the toughest it's been in quite some time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 26, 2017, 06:24:57 pm
Hobart and Bard rosters up.  Anyone familiar with the abilities of the new additions or are there any notables expected to have returned but not?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on August 26, 2017, 11:30:38 pm
Bard lost a lot of strong players from last year's senior class, so it could be a rebuilding year.  Hobart returns most of their strongest players from last year, so expectations are high that this might be the year for a breakthrough.  I am not familiar with the newcomers on either side, though. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 27, 2017, 09:03:02 am
Thanks Omma.  SLU also up but listing just one freshman. I assume that is because there may be cuts before the end of pre-season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on August 27, 2017, 06:26:41 pm
Ithaca's 2017 roster is also up: 11 freshman on squad of 29. 
Curious to see how the new coach and new players (including at least one D1 transfer) make their way through the league schedule.

Hobart scrimmages Oswego (who has a new coach and high hopes) on Tuesday evening.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 28, 2017, 05:57:24 pm
SLU's roster is up.  Guys ranging from Maine to Spain to Kenya.  I knew Tosh was really branching out for recruiting this year, brought in a good haul.  Can't wait for the action to start this weekend!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 29, 2017, 10:12:33 am
Most of rosters up.  A couple of observations.  First, an apparent dearth of USSDA players.  The ability of NESCAC and UAA schools, as well as other historical d3 powerhouses to grab them will detriment LL teams come dance time.  Second, comparing the classes of Vassar and SLU, last year's two dance participants, raises the age-old question does size matter (which it obviously does to Coach Tosch).  SLU brought in 11 players averaging 177 pounds and Vassar's class of 10 averages 154.  The freshman classes physicality difference shouldn't have much impact this year, and we all know one of the best players on the planet is a diminutive soul, but down the road it will be interesting to see if loading up on big bodies is important to d3 success. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on August 29, 2017, 03:00:26 pm
The LL site put up its men's soccer "preview" ...

http://www.libertyleagueathletics.com/news/2017/8/29/2017-liberty-league-mens-soccer-preseason-preview.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on August 29, 2017, 04:04:01 pm
Most of rosters up.  A couple of observations.  First, an apparent dearth of USSDA players.  The ability of NESCAC and UAA schools, as well as other historical d3 powerhouses to grab them will detriment LL teams come dance time.  Second, comparing the classes of Vassar and SLU, last year's two dance participants, raises the age-old question does size matter (which it obviously does to Coach Tosch).  SLU brought in 11 players averaging 177 pounds and Vassar's class of 10 averages 154.  The freshman classes physicality difference shouldn't have much impact this year, and we all know one of the best players on the planet is a diminutive soul, but down the road it will be interesting to see if loading up on big bodies is important to d3 success.

Great observations, Deutschfan!  I'm not sure why more USSDA players don't choose LL schools.  Not all of the LL schools attend the USSDA showcases, but I know that at least some of the LL schools regularly get USSDA players to do campus visits.  In toe-to-toe competition for USSDA recruits between NESCAC and LL schools, NESCAC wins out most of the time.  Union's roster isn't up yet, but one of their new recruits has a MLS academy background. 

I loved your "deep dive" into SLU and Vassar biometric data.  If nothing else, SLU should be ready to pummel the Brewers into submission over the next four years!  Your analysis is an interesting complement to the point raised by Blooter regarding Coach Shapiro's prioritizing of athleticism over soccer skill in his initial recruiting efforts in the NESCAC thread.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 30, 2017, 01:41:03 pm
You have identified the conundrum for the D3 coach.  The big, fast, skilled soccer player goes D1.  The next level includes the big players who are lack speed or touch, and the players that are too small for D1, but are fast and skilled.  Over 4 years is it easier to improve the deficiencies in the big players or the smaller ones?  Obviously you can't add height and putting additional weight on smaller frames typically reduces speed and quickness.  I think most coaches will take the physical specimen because of the larger developmental upside so to speak.  Regarding the USSDA your takes are right on.  Hobart posted its roster and has a multi-year USSDA player in Kyle Mangold with international experience.  How did he wind up at Hobart?  He chose to play high school his senior year, probably much to the chagrin of his club coaches, and tore his ACL in the third game.  That was probably a deal breaker for the D1 schools.  It will be interesting to watch his career.  Sometimes you never come close to where you were after an ACL tear.  On the other hand if he fully recovers this could be a major recruiting coup for the Statesmen who are looking very formidable this year.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 31, 2017, 02:10:44 pm
Union roster lists Poom Mera, Rhode Island's Gatorade POY, as well as formerly of the New England Revolution's Academy program.  What a great get for the Union staff.  Amazing given Union's lack of recent success.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on August 31, 2017, 04:49:15 pm
Union roster lists Poom Mera, Rhode Island's Gatorade POY, as well as formerly of the New England Revolution's Academy program.  What a great get for the Union staff.  Amazing given Union's lack of recent success.

He is the player I was referring to in my post on Tuesday.  It will be interesting to see how he combines with Strauss and Lopez.  He's a very skilled player who was cut by the Revs after his freshman year, but obviously experienced success in high school and club soccer thereafter.  As with many first year players, he'll likely need to bulk up a bit for the sake of resilience.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 01, 2017, 05:07:07 pm
Babson is up on SLU 2-1 at the half.  Babson is playing well but it's been a long time since I've seen a team have that much luck in a half.  Every bounce and deflection has gone their way.  2nd half should be fun.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: EasyGoer27 on September 01, 2017, 05:19:03 pm
I would agree SLU have been the better side but very competitive game.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 01, 2017, 06:20:20 pm
Quite poor performance by SLU to lose 3-2.  Not taking anything away from Babson, they played well.  There appears to be a lack of X factor on this SLU squad.  Still no offensive threat on this team. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on September 01, 2017, 08:47:29 pm
SLU missing that central Midfielder that controls the team...Provost, Demello, Bednarsky, etc
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 01, 2017, 10:06:12 pm
SLU missing that central Midfielder that controls the team...Provost, Demello, Bednarsky, etc

Indeed.  Really appreciating how spoiled this program has been by having players like the ones you mentioned.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 02, 2017, 12:45:43 am
Quite poor performance by SLU to lose 3-2.  Not taking anything away from Babson, they played well.  There appears to be a lack of X factor on this SLU squad.  Still no offensive threat on this team.

Didn't see the game, but it looks like SLU dominated the stats. With that in mind, I can definitely see the perspective of the aforementioned post saying that the Beavers had all the bounces in the first half.

Babson scored 3 goals, which, for a team that has had trouble scoring in recent memory, maybe represents the turning of a corner. Then again, given their history in recent seasons, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Beavers beat SLU only to lose to Clarkson. A win over SLU is nothing to scoff at, but it was at home, where Babson has played well over the years. Next week they have two tough away tests at Tufts and Brandeis, which will I think be more comprehensive indicators of the team's potential.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 02, 2017, 02:01:19 am
When facing Babson, Clarkson may be energized by their 3-1 victory over Wheaton, who no doubt were playing with heavy hearts.  With Calnan's hat trick, the Golden Knights may be showing signs of improved attacking prowess in Coach Taylor's fourth season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2017, 12:11:33 pm
Quite poor performance by SLU to lose 3-2.  Not taking anything away from Babson, they played well.  There appears to be a lack of X factor on this SLU squad.  Still no offensive threat on this team.

Didn't see the game, but it looks like SLU dominated the stats. With that in mind, I can definitely see the perspective of the aforementioned post saying that the Beavers had all the bounces in the first half.

Babson scored 3 goals, which, for a team that has had trouble scoring in recent memory, maybe represents the turning of a corner. Then again, given their history in recent seasons, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Beavers beat SLU only to lose to Clarkson. A win over SLU is nothing to scoff at, but it was at home, where Babson has played well over the years. Next week they have two tough away tests at Tufts and Brandeis, which will I think be more comprehensive indicators of the team's potential.


I have to agree with that whole statement. +k....I was working so I could not catch any of the games but I would say the biggest surprise yesterday was Babson netting 3 v SLU. SLU loves to take chances so I am assuming Babson played dangerously on the counter and like Bloots said I could easily see them pulling a clunker v Clarkson. I must say if Clarkson can get out of New England at 2-0-0 that would be a huge boost for them to continue to have a great year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2017, 12:19:18 pm
I will be interested to see what Hobart is made of this year. They got snubbed last year as I thought they were an NCAA team last year. Sometimes they get off to slow sluggish starts. Let's see what they do with ECONN today at home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 02, 2017, 01:35:11 pm
Hobart has to be incredibly frustrated by last year's ending. They should have prevailed against Skidmore in regulation and then to lose in penalties. If game goes other way they have Vassar at home and they dominated Vassar away with their physicality.  Hobart is my pick this year to rise above the rest. SLU offensively impaired again having the two most overrated returning first teamers on the offensive end.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 02, 2017, 04:34:29 pm
This is going to be a long year for this SLU squad.  They've conceded 5 against Wheaton and 8 goals on the weekend.  Only the 2nd game but this program looks to be in a rebuilding phase.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2017, 04:38:35 pm
I only caught the 1st Half but SLU was all over Wheaton the first 20 minutes but looked lost in the final 3rd. Wheaton scored a couple against the run of play. 2nd Half must have been crazy with SLU pushing #'s forward all over the field.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 02, 2017, 04:41:42 pm
SLU scored all three in the span of 3 minutes.  Then they gave up a corner and a penalty.  This team has always been pretty shaky on set pieces.  Might be seeing the new 6'7" freshman keeper recruit get some action next weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2017, 04:41:58 pm
Just caught a goal as SLU scores off a set piece. Nice ball played into the box that was flicked on and finished...5-4 Wheaton with about 10 minutes left
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 02, 2017, 04:51:12 pm
Wow, belay my last.  SLU ties it up at 5.  What a crazy game.  3-0 to 5-3 to 5-5.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 02, 2017, 04:56:23 pm
Hobart loses to ECU 1:0.  The Statesmen played 20, a freshman started, they dominated both possession and shots on goal, but - alas - gave up a soft one half way through first half and Eastern Connecticut stayed organized and played smart (even as Hobart grew frustrated and fouled more and more).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 02, 2017, 04:58:10 pm
Ah yeah...While the defending in this SLU game has been non-existent, from what I have seen SLU's GK is shaky AT BEST.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 03, 2017, 06:54:34 pm
Hobart has to be incredibly frustrated by last year's ending. They should have prevailed against Skidmore in regulation and then to lose in penalties. If game goes other way they have Vassar at home and they dominated Vassar away with their physicality.  Hobart is my pick this year to rise above the rest. SLU offensively impaired again having the two most overrated returning first teamers on the offensive end.

I agree that Hobart was robbed last year. Then again the only way to avoid that happening is winning the Tourney.
They were league champions for a reason though and really did well to win 6 and lose just 1 against LL competition last year.
Some of those big and unexplainable losses I think hurt them in the Tourney.

I think I am harder on SLU than most, and I think the Statesmen should feel wronged at losing that bid to a conference 5 seed last year!

I must disagree with you respectfully yet strongly on your claim about SLU's 2 returning first team All league players.

One of those players has been, in my opinion, the BEST player in the league since his freshman year.
I think most knowledgeable people who have seen him play and have played the game understands just how special of a player he is.
In just over 2 seasons he has scored 8 goals ( all game winners, or tying goals) and scoring goals is actually the worst part of his game.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 03, 2017, 07:13:55 pm
Notes after the first weekend with 6 out of 10 LL teams undefeated.  In order by LL's last year's finish: 1) Vassar--won't stop the Brewers unless you can break up the two man synergy between their returning all-region players Van Brewer and Mrlik; 2) Skidmore--Santos is still sizzling after a scorching league season last year; 3) Hobart--again needs to find a scorer after last year where no one scored more than a handful of goals; 4) RPI--could be for real but riding the Costa Rican trip bump and followed the SLU super size me recruiting model; 5) SLU--as Mr. Right noted a mess on defense and offensively will need more forward production as they re-evaluate the bigger the better recruiting model; 6) Union--lucky to get by New Paltz and will be hampered by a cup-cake preseason; 7) Clarkson--Has found a target player with Calnan and his 4 goal weekend but their late defensive breakdown against Babson is worrisome for a team whose defense kept them in many a game last year; 8) RIT--still hasn't found a way to reach its finals glory in 2011; 9) Bard--Can win with and without Shenberger, and only needs to win a few of the close games they lost last year to make the playoffs; and Newbie) Ithaca--has come to play with balanced scoring and strong defense.  None of the teams has faced a top notch opponent so it is difficult to assess how strong the league is.  Preseason Bennett Rankings has the LL ranked 11th which is probably as low as it has been since inception.  Rankings like that make it tough to compete for recruits against the UAA and NESCAC, the perennial 1 and 2.  Too bad we didn't have a first week fixture like Brandeis/Cortland or Carnegie Mellon/Kenyon.  The non-conference foes will be stronger in the upcoming weeks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 03, 2017, 07:44:40 pm
Hobart has to be incredibly frustrated by last year's ending. They should have prevailed against Skidmore in regulation and then to lose in penalties. If game goes other way they have Vassar at home and they dominated Vassar away with their physicality.  Hobart is my pick this year to rise above the rest. SLU offensively impaired again having the two most overrated returning first teamers on the offensive end.

I agree that Hobart was robbed last year. Then again the only way to avoid that happening is winning the Tourney.
They were league champions for a reason though and really did well to win 6 and lose just 1 against LL competition last year.
Some of those big and unexplainable losses I think hurt them in the Tourney.

I think I am harder on SLU than most, and I think the Statesmen should feel wronged at losing that bid to a conference 5 seed last year!

I must disagree with you respectfully yet strongly on your claim about SLU's 2 returning first team All league players.

One of those players has been, in my opinion, the BEST player in the league since his freshman year.
I think most knowledgeable people who have seen him play and have played the game understands just how special of a player he is.
In just over 2 seasons he has scored 8 goals ( all game winners, or tying goals) and scoring goals is actually the worst part of his game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 03, 2017, 08:03:32 pm
Oops, hit post too quickly.  Saint, I love your insights and dedication to the LL and SLU.  I agree with you about 90% of the time  Your assessment that SLU's freshman of the year for 2015 has been the best player in the league for the past two seasons is the epitome of overrating.  The best two players in the league the past two years were defenders, Copeland and Oyeniyi, both who received All-American recognition, and rightly so, even though they had ignominious exits from D3 soccer with Copeland getting a late red against Haverford in the NCAAs and Oyeniyi committing the late foul in the box that gave Vassar the league title last year.  The best midfielder in the league in 2016 did not only generate a single assist with no goals in 8 league games and then get shutout in the NCAAs.  Dede wasn't even the best mid-fielder on his team based on his coach and other NSCAA coaches naming another SLU midfielder All-Region.  The second, third, and fourth best players in the league last year were a midfielder and forward for Vassar, and an RPI forward who won player of the year.  Brandell was actually the best player on SLU last year and he was nowhere close to being the best player in the league.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 03, 2017, 08:28:01 pm
Oops, hit post too quickly.  Saint, I love your insights and dedication to the LL and SLU.  I agree with you about 90% of the time  Your assessment that SLU's freshman of the year for 2015 has been the best player in the league for the past two seasons is the epitome of overrating.  The best two players in the league the past two years were defenders, Copeland and Oyeniyi, both who received All-American recognition, and rightly so, even though they had ignominious exits from D3 soccer with Copeland getting a late red against Haverford in the NCAAs and Oyeniyi committing the late foul in the box that gave Vassar the league title last year.  The best midfielder in the league in 2016 did not only generate a single assist with no goals in 8 league games and then get shutout in the NCAAs.  Dede wasn't even the best mid-fielder on his team based on his coach and other NSCAA coaches naming another SLU midfielder All-Region.  The second, third, and fourth best players in the league last year were a midfielder and forward for Vassar, and an RPI forward who won player of the year.  Brandell was actually the best player on SLU last year and he was nowhere close to being the best player in the league.   

Ha.
I love arguing soccer with  people like yourself who are knowledgeable.
I recall back in 2002-3 I had a hours long conversation with a fellow Saint whether Ronaldinho or Zidane was the better player.
Oyeniyi was a stud and deserved all-American.

I love big Harry Copeland, a great Saint.
he was a new model  Laird who was Brilliant and in this current crop Dorney is cut from a similar fabric as well.
Unknown to many Durocher has a cloning machine hidden in his office  ;)


We can agree to disagree on this one.
The beautiful thing is that we have a year or two of pitch performance to possibly reassess our original analysis.

As for All-American accolades, I never judge players based on what all star teams they make, unlike yeas past, most games are online and we can make our judgment based on the eye test. The only real way to do it fairly.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 06, 2017, 03:09:17 pm
Pretty decisive win for Skidmore v Plattsburgh St 3-0 yesterday. That game is usually a defensive toss-up but looks like Okoye netted 2. Okoye and Santos will have to carry them all season and hope neither gets injured.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 06, 2017, 09:03:31 pm
Vassar and Bard fall from the ranks of the unbeaten ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 08, 2017, 03:17:44 pm
RPI over Rhode Island College 3-2 with a late PK to seal the match.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 08, 2017, 04:12:05 pm
And the nightmare start to the SLU season continues.  Giving away another awful penalty in the opening 10 minutes against Oneonta.  Defending on this team is non-existent.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 08, 2017, 04:47:26 pm
Outside of that awful penalty I would actually say SLU had the upper hand in the first half.  Should have put at least one away.  Oneonta is outplaying them where it matters though, the scoreboard.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 08, 2017, 05:07:55 pm
Coach Tosh sums up my feelings about this ref perfectly: "You're having a nightmare".  I don't like to complain about officiating too much but this guy is missing obvious calls.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 08, 2017, 05:31:15 pm
And that should do it.  Oneonta goes up 2-0 on a set piece.  This is what happens when you have no final third product and squander chance after chance.  Can't remember the last time it took 2 weekends for this program to get its first win. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2017, 08:09:39 am
And that should do it.  Oneonta goes up 2-0 on a set piece.  This is what happens when you have no final third product and squander chance after chance.  Can't remember the last time it took 2 weekends for this program to get its first win.

Have they switched GK's yet? How about the backline? You would know better than I but MOST coaches would start to tap on the panic button and move players around. Absolutely making sure your most athletic / skilled / tough players were in the spine. I only saw the Wheaton game but the GK'ing in that game was not good. The defending certainly did not help either as I thought it was non-existent in that game. i will say they dominated Wheaton the first 20 minutes of that game but could not finish. They obviously put 5 away so they were finishing in that game but Wheaton's defense was just as horrid in that game. I assume you played for Durocher? What would he do?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 09, 2017, 03:53:42 pm
No changes made in SLU's lineup in today's game against Rhode Island.  Comfortable 4-0 win.  The chances they had the capitalized on.  RIC is no Oneonta, but it was nice to see them get their first win at least.  Dorney the big CB got in on the action much like his predecessor Copeland used to do.  Another tough road weekend next week against Oswego and Cortland.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 09, 2017, 03:55:01 pm
And that should do it.  Oneonta goes up 2-0 on a set piece.  This is what happens when you have no final third product and squander chance after chance.  Can't remember the last time it took 2 weekends for this program to get its first win.

Have they switched GK's yet? How about the backline? You would know better than I but MOST coaches would start to tap on the panic button and move players around. Absolutely making sure your most athletic / skilled / tough players were in the spine. I only saw the Wheaton game but the GK'ing in that game was not good. The defending certainly did not help either as I thought it was non-existent in that game. i will say they dominated Wheaton the first 20 minutes of that game but could not finish. They obviously put 5 away so they were finishing in that game but Wheaton's defense was just as horrid in that game. I assume you played for Durocher? What would he do?

Panic may just have been averter Mr. Right, but not in my opinion.
You make some great points there.
Having played, I wont ever say any player should be switched out, but I will say, players should get a chance to grab an opportunity if the guys infront of them are not performing as they should.

What would Durocher do?

I think that Durocher would have this group making a deep run in the NCAA with the talent on the team.
Coach Tosh may still be able to do that as well.

What Durocher did better than any coach I ever had was that he always made sure each and every player on the team knew their role on the team. His secret was that he knew each of his players really well even on a personal level.

Besides a few of the boyz, I'm not convinced each player on the Saints know their role inside out at this point...

I still have faith in Tosh, he is a great Coach, he knows more than anyone the type of pressure that comes from Coaching SLU and I am sure he went in with eyes wide open.

The team has to start playing better.
If I am not mistaken, they have outshot all 4 opponents despite having a losing record.
Someone must step up to be the consistent scorer the team needs.
Back to back wins next week and the season looks a whole lot different.

For stretches of the game yesterday, I actually thought the boys dominated Oneonta, but they were dominated on the scoreboard where it counts. Finding a scoring threat (Hope you see this #9, #14, #22) will help solve that problem.

Finally the team must tighten up in the back.
Giving up 3 goals or more each in the first 3 games just wont cut it.
Normally at SLU, players who don't play defense don't play.
Team gave up 4 goals total  in 2000 and 2011 for the entire season and gave up 5 to Wheaton last weekend.

Apologies for the rant from a has been, but improvement is needed and it falls on the shoulders of the team to give 100% and represent the crest.

These 4 years go faster than you think.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 09, 2017, 04:03:58 pm
I agree about yesterday's game.  I actually thought they outplayed Oneonta for the most part.  Oneonta is a possession team like SLU, but SLU took them out of that element and had them playing the counter more than Byrne would have liked.  They missed a few point blank goals and had lapses on set pieces.  Oneonta just put away the chances they had.  The talent is there, as seen by yesterday's numerous chances against a great team.  I think Tosh is still trying to find his sea legs. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2017, 05:02:18 pm
RPI up 1-0 over Oneonta at the Half. I am going to guess RPI has 1 shot and 1 goal and Oneonta is all over them but cannot finish. Adam Clinton and RPI have for years found ways to get results against better teams. We will see if they can hold on to the victory or even a draw would really look nice come November. RPI will face off against Williams on Wednesday night at home.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 09, 2017, 05:13:32 pm
Right on cue...Oneonta ties it up 1-1 55th minute....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 11, 2017, 06:58:08 pm
Notes on the scorecard after second week where no Liberty League team has yet to win a statement game (in order of last year's finish): 1) Vassar--teams have learned to double Mrlik and let the rest of the team beat them, in two games the other Vassar X could not; 2) Skidmore--for second year in a row probably has the best player in the league (sorry Saint but I did note that your vote for best player received honor roll recognition for a meaningless assist in a blowout win after a 3-0 beat down); 3) Hobart--most likely the best team in the country without a win after outplaying Brandeis in a loss even at a man down and tying Rochester; 4) RPI--Mr. Right was right, managed to get a goal against run of play against Oneonta but was outclassed with no real dangerous player; 5) SLU--still needs help on both ends despite leading the league in goals scored; 6) Union--could Mr. Right use his magic and calculate an expected strength of schedule?; 7) Clarkson--its long absence from the playoffs is soon to be over; 8) RIT--still vacillates between mediocre and weak; 9) Bard--trouncing by very average Mt. St. Mary's team is indicative of another year looking in from the outside; and Newbie) Ithaca--was impressed by their defense and rate of play in the Brockport game reminding me of the last NYU team that won the UAA based on the strength of its defense and giving fair warning to the league that they are here to play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 11, 2017, 09:35:50 pm
Notes on the scorecard after second week where no Liberty League team has yet to win a statement game (in order of last year's finish): 1) Vassar--teams have learned to double Mrlik and let the rest of the team beat them, in two games the other Vassar X could not; 2) Skidmore--for second year in a row probably has the best player in the league (sorry Saint but I did note that your vote for best player received honor roll recognition for a meaningless assist in a blowout win after a 3-0 beat down); 3) Hobart--most likely the best team in the country without a win after outplaying Brandeis in a loss even at a man down and tying Rochester; 4) RPI--Mr. Right was right, managed to get a goal against run of play against Oneonta but was outclassed with no real dangerous player; 5) SLU--still needs help on both ends despite leading the league in goals scored; 6) Union--could Mr. Right use his magic and calculate an expected strength of schedule?; 7) Clarkson--its long absence from the playoffs is soon to be over; 8) RIT--still vacillates between mediocre and weak; 9) Bard--trouncing by very average Mt. St. Mary's team is indicative of another year looking in from the outside; and Newbie) Ithaca--was impressed by their defense and rate of play in the Brockport game reminding me of the last NYU team that won the UAA based on the strength of its defense and giving fair warning to the league that they are here to play.

Great analysis.
I think Saints lead the league in goals given up as well.
This week will tell us a lot about all the teams.

I agree that Hobart is very strong, a good tie against UofR is a sign of things to come.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 11, 2017, 10:21:16 pm
And that should do it.  Oneonta goes up 2-0 on a set piece.  This is what happens when you have no final third product and squander chance after chance.  Can't remember the last time it took 2 weekends for this program to get its first win.

Have they switched GK's yet? How about the backline? You would know better than I but MOST coaches would start to tap on the panic button and move players around. Absolutely making sure your most athletic / skilled / tough players were in the spine. I only saw the Wheaton game but the GK'ing in that game was not good. The defending certainly did not help either as I thought it was non-existent in that game. i will say they dominated Wheaton the first 20 minutes of that game but could not finish. They obviously put 5 away so they were finishing in that game but Wheaton's defense was just as horrid in that game. I assume you played for Durocher? What would he do?

Panic may just have been averter Mr. Right, but not in my opinion.
You make some great points there.
Having played, I wont ever say any player should be switched out, but I will say, players should get a chance to grab an opportunity if the guys infront of them are not performing as they should.

What would Durocher do?

I think that Durocher would have this group making a deep run in the NCAA with the talent on the team.
Coach Tosh may still be able to do that as well.

What Durocher did better than any coach I ever had was that he always made sure each and every player on the team knew their role on the team. His secret was that he knew each of his players really well even on a personal level.

Besides a few of the boyz, I'm not convinced each player on the Saints know their role inside out at this point...

I still have faith in Tosh, he is a great Coach, he knows more than anyone the type of pressure that comes from Coaching SLU and I am sure he went in with eyes wide open.

The team has to start playing better.
If I am not mistaken, they have outshot all 4 opponents despite having a losing record.
Someone must step up to be the consistent scorer the team needs.
Back to back wins next week and the season looks a whole lot different.

For stretches of the game yesterday, I actually thought the boys dominated Oneonta, but they were dominated on the scoreboard where it counts. Finding a scoring threat (Hope you see this #9, #14, #22) will help solve that problem.

Finally the team must tighten up in the back.
Giving up 3 goals or more each in the first 3 games just wont cut it.
Normally at SLU, players who don't play defense don't play.
Team gave up 4 goals total  in 2000 and 2011 for the entire season and gave up 5 to Wheaton last weekend.

Apologies for the rant from a has been, but improvement is needed and it falls on the shoulders of the team to give 100% and represent the crest.

These 4 years go faster than you think.


Interesting response Saint of Old...usually you are very measured, optimistic and positive even in the worst of situations(i.e SLU losing at home to Amherst in the 2014 NCAA 2nd Round and all the shenanigans with the Amherst bench etc in that game). I gathered from your response that you feel some of the players and coaches are not on the same page. While I am not only intrigued by your response including stating that Durocher would have had this talented SLU side whipped into shape, which is either a confirmation of how good a coach Durocher was or a definite slight on the current coach or BOTH but am more curious to know WHY you feel that the players do not know their roles on this side or more matter of factly how do you know this?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 11, 2017, 10:47:40 pm
Notes on the scorecard after second week where no Liberty League team has yet to win a statement game (in order of last year's finish): 1) Vassar--teams have learned to double Mrlik and let the rest of the team beat them, in two games the other Vassar X could not; 2) Skidmore--for second year in a row probably has the best player in the league (sorry Saint but I did note that your vote for best player received honor roll recognition for a meaningless assist in a blowout win after a 3-0 beat down); 3) Hobart--most likely the best team in the country without a win after outplaying Brandeis in a loss even at a man down and tying Rochester; 4) RPI--Mr. Right was right, managed to get a goal against run of play against Oneonta but was outclassed with no real dangerous player; 5) SLU--still needs help on both ends despite leading the league in goals scored; 6) Union--could Mr. Right use his magic and calculate an expected strength of schedule?; 7) Clarkson--its long absence from the playoffs is soon to be over; 8) RIT--still vacillates between mediocre and weak; 9) Bard--trouncing by very average Mt. St. Mary's team is indicative of another year looking in from the outside; and Newbie) Ithaca--was impressed by their defense and rate of play in the Brockport game reminding me of the last NYU team that won the UAA based on the strength of its defense and giving fair warning to the league that they are here to play.


Yea RPI and Hobart have each been such an enigma in totally different ways. Somehow someway RPI continues to have successful season after successful season without the likes of a superior player that can take over a game. Just 11 guys working hard every game. I will say they might have some of the best luck in D3 as I have never seen a team the past few years get as many results as they do against better competition with 2-3 SOG. On the flip, I have never seen a team underachieve year after year like Hobart does especially out of conference. I know Shaun Griffin is a fantastic coach and has been for years BUT for some reason his Hobart teams just do not get results when they need them. They either come out flat or sometimes I feel they are not ready to play and are not focused for 90 minutes. In fact they remind me a ton of Pilger's sides at Trinity. Talent is there but they could be so much more if the focus was also there. In fact, Hobart has such an advantage in admissions over most LL teams and has such a great campus and school that they SHOULD be a Top 20 team consistently in D3 IMHO.

I have been a big fan of Skidmore's the past couple years ever since Ron McEachen starting recruiting some Jamaicans to Skidmore and playing some dynamic futbol but also being very disciplined defensively like his teams at Univ of Vermont used to be. Unfortunately for him he was forced to retire because I think he could have gotten even more out of these teams than they have. Still they have played well the past few years and the current coach is a big part of this but the next step is the NCAA's and I am not sure this team has the depth to get there. We will see.

On the Flip, I have never enjoyed watching Vassar play under Jennings but you cannot argue with his results. While we all poke fun at Guinn at Union for his ridiculous scheduling it does his team no favors when league play starts. He has a good young team this year and will get some results for sure.

Wide open year and will be fun to watch the LL this year especially with the expanded playoffs and i love starting my weekend off with the Friday afternoon first half of the back to back's.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 12, 2017, 08:23:34 am
And that should do it.  Oneonta goes up 2-0 on a set piece.  This is what happens when you have no final third product and squander chance after chance.  Can't remember the last time it took 2 weekends for this program to get its first win.

Have they switched GK's yet? How about the backline? You would know better than I but MOST coaches would start to tap on the panic button and move players around. Absolutely making sure your most athletic / skilled / tough players were in the spine. I only saw the Wheaton game but the GK'ing in that game was not good. The defending certainly did not help either as I thought it was non-existent in that game. i will say they dominated Wheaton the first 20 minutes of that game but could not finish. They obviously put 5 away so they were finishing in that game but Wheaton's defense was just as horrid in that game. I assume you played for Durocher? What would he do?

Panic may just have been averter Mr. Right, but not in my opinion.
You make some great points there.
Having played, I wont ever say any player should be switched out, but I will say, players should get a chance to grab an opportunity if the guys infront of them are not performing as they should.

What would Durocher do?

I think that Durocher would have this group making a deep run in the NCAA with the talent on the team.
Coach Tosh may still be able to do that as well.

What Durocher did better than any coach I ever had was that he always made sure each and every player on the team knew their role on the team. His secret was that he knew each of his players really well even on a personal level.

Besides a few of the boyz, I'm not convinced each player on the Saints know their role inside out at this point...

I still have faith in Tosh, he is a great Coach, he knows more than anyone the type of pressure that comes from Coaching SLU and I am sure he went in with eyes wide open.

The team has to start playing better.
If I am not mistaken, they have outshot all 4 opponents despite having a losing record.
Someone must step up to be the consistent scorer the team needs.
Back to back wins next week and the season looks a whole lot different.

For stretches of the game yesterday, I actually thought the boys dominated Oneonta, but they were dominated on the scoreboard where it counts. Finding a scoring threat (Hope you see this #9, #14, #22) will help solve that problem.

Finally the team must tighten up in the back.
Giving up 3 goals or more each in the first 3 games just wont cut it.
Normally at SLU, players who don't play defense don't play.
Team gave up 4 goals total  in 2000 and 2011 for the entire season and gave up 5 to Wheaton last weekend.

Apologies for the rant from a has been, but improvement is needed and it falls on the shoulders of the team to give 100% and represent the crest.

These 4 years go faster than you think.


Interesting response Saint of Old...usually you are very measured, optimistic and positive even in the worst of situations(i.e SLU losing at home to Amherst in the 2014 NCAA 2nd Round and all the shenanigans with the Amherst bench etc in that game). I gathered from your response that you feel some of the players and coaches are not on the same page. While I am not only intrigued by your response including stating that Durocher would have had this talented SLU side whipped into shape, which is either a confirmation of how good a coach Durocher was or a definite slight on the current coach or BOTH but am more curious to know WHY you feel that the players do not know their roles on this side or more matter of factly how do you know this?

In fairness, I think that after many players on various teams wont know their role after the first two weekends of the year. What I say has to be taken with a grain of salt as coming from an old Saint who thinks the boyz should be playing better. Like I said, I think Tosh is a great Coach. He has had the boyz in the dance his first two years at the helm. Also, this man was partly responsible for the rise of the program from the mid 90s. Coach Durocher had 4 losing seasons in the beginning before he found consistent success.
I think its the players have to step up and play the way they know they can.
I have taken a bit of brotherly flack on these boards for how highly I think of some of these players, but there is no disappointment without expectation, and I respect these players a lot and think they should and will turn it around.
Finally, I don't have ANY inside knowledge or sources, just a has been who dedicates wayyyyy too much of my time to a program I love.
There are a few of us out there which is what makes this site and board so much fun to be involved it.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 12, 2017, 09:51:59 am
Its brotherly flack and brotherly love.  I want to get back to Mr. Right's Hobart assessment.  I agree that they have an excellent coach and are in a situation where they should be able to recruit.  The women's team seems to perennially compete for the national championship.  I have always been curious as to the reason why at some schools the women's program dominates the men in success when you would think the school would be equally attractive to both genders.  While it could be argued that it is due to a difference in strength of coaches between the men's and women's program at Hobart I don't believe that's the case.  Another example is Wash U where the women's team is always in the national mix and Joe Clarke on the men's side is a very capable and experienced coach.
 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 12, 2017, 12:32:00 pm
Its brotherly flack and brotherly love.  I want to get back to Mr. Right's Hobart assessment.  I agree that they have an excellent coach and are in a situation where they should be able to recruit.  The women's team seems to perennially compete for the national championship.  I have always been curious as to the reason why at some schools the women's program dominates the men in success when you would think the school would be equally attractive to both genders.  While it could be argued that it is due to a difference in strength of coaches between the men's and women's program at Hobart I don't believe that's the case.  Another example is Wash U where the women's team is always in the national mix and Joe Clarke on the men's side is a very capable and experienced coach.

Bit of a homer bias on Hobart, having watched closely and not so closely over the years.  My sense is that part of the underperformance in early season is due to too much detail too soon: Too many plans and ideas.  Shaun is a great recruiter and so he has many capable players. This leads to problems with playing time and clarity of roles. Combining together tactical complexity, fighting for minutes, and concerns about role leads to some curiously flat games, odd mistakes, and early season struggles.  This is also why Hobart comes on so strong towards the mid-season, why they often prevail in the many OT games they play, and why the other team seems so excited if they can find a way to win.

Deutschfan wryly (and I think rightly) observed that Hobart may be the best no-wins-yet team in the country (and certainly in the league). The early season losses to an organized Eastern Connecticut (and a soft goal), the unfortunate loss to Brandeis (who were outplayed by a 10 man Hobart), and the Rochester tie (sigh) puts lots of pressure on Hobart to win the league in order to dance.  They could not pull off threading that needle's eye last year. Hobart is a better squad this year.  Still, it is not even mid-September and my read is that they will have to try to do so again this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 12, 2017, 02:34:15 pm
Union has appeared at No. 23 in the national poll, with RPI also receiving votes.

http://unitedsoccercoaches.org/web/Rankings/College_Rankings/NCAA_DIII_MEN/web/rankings/ncaa/diii_men.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 12, 2017, 04:39:53 pm
Thanks d3.  Saw that.  The Union ranking is way off base.  Union could win all of its preseason games and still be untested.  If Union is 23, Hobart without a win should be in the top 15, and Vassar, who wupped West Conn 4-0 compared Union's 1-0 squeaker, should be in the top 10.  Both are ridiculous notions as is Union's ranking.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 12, 2017, 06:46:43 pm
Deutschfan seems to have a logical, reasonable informed opinion about the poll and where the Liberty League teams should stand in truth. So how can the voters be so far off? It's ridiculous. Clearly someone voting is familiar with the LL, right? How hard is it to look at common opponents and SOS? This is meant in no way to disparage Union - but to disparage the voters. Do a little homework. It would take 5 minutes this early in the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 13, 2017, 10:57:09 pm
It was a mid-week night of mixed results for LL teams.  RIT routed Elmira 3-0 (from the stats, it looks like it could have been a lot worse), RPI fell 1-0 to Williams (it was weird not to streaming or live stats available for this game), Ithaca lost at home 3-2 to Hamilton (shots were as even as the score), and Vassar came from 2 goals down to prevail 3-2 at New Paltz.  Skidmore visits Union to kick off league play Friday night.  It will be interesting to see how Skidmore's dynamic duo up top fares against the undefeated Dutchmen and, perhaps of greater importance for Skidmore's long-term success, how well the new GK and Oyeniyi-less back line does against Union's attack.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 14, 2017, 12:51:31 am
The Williams at RPI game was streamed live, sometimes this site will not show the availability of the stream but if you go to the Home teams website you can find it.  You did not miss much I promise you as Williams at RPI was an uneventful affair. I will comment on the Williams side on the Nescac thread but my observations of RPI have changed a bit after watching them for the full 90. 

I had to remind myself that for the most part this RPI side is pretty young. As usual, they worked very hard all game. Williams got the only goal of the game on a completely fluke play that the RPI GK made a mess of. What was supposed to be a cross from the flank was miss hit and ended up as a looping shot on goal in which the RPI GK was way out of position for and somehow(do not ask me how) the ball ended up in the back of the net. Just a bizarre play that that the GK completely mucked up and will have to put the loss on his own shoulders. As far as my observations on RPI, they were unusually disorganized in the back for parts of the game that ended up costing them. RPI's back 4 were not communicating with each other very well all game. Bad giveaways by the wingbacks and no vocal leader at CB to help. Their back 4 are not the most physically imposing and while somewhat technical and fast they were just 1 step to slow in moving the ball around. To their credit, Adam Clinton still tries to play futbal whenever possible as all players are looking for feet but they need to do it faster. Maybe it will take them a month or so to gel and crisply move the ball. Their striker up top was fast and skilled but not a player that could take over a game and he does not have much to work with behind him when going forward. I have to look at the stats but i do not remember even a handful of SOG for RPI. 2nd Half they did have about 3-4 good opportunities from set pieces coming from bad Williams fouls in their offensive 3rd but they are not a threat in the air. The big advantage RPI had was using the crazy bounces the ball takes off that crappy turf. They just couldn't get a foot on any to finish them off, By all means, Williams was not that much better but did enough to win. Their loss of Tommy Young for the year is going to really hurt them. RPI will battle all year and get some wins in the LL here and there but they will be fighting for 5th /6th place IMO. Teams can and will be scoring goals against them and I doubt they will be able to out score opponents. This is not an NCAA team this year. Not sure if they have any injuries but they have no significant depth off the bench.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 14, 2017, 01:46:49 am
The Williams at RPI game was streamed live, sometimes this site will not show the availability of the stream but if you go to the Home teams website you can find it.  You did not miss much I promise you as Williams at RPI was an uneventful affair.

I'll look more carefully next time (I did spot some updates on the crawl of the RPI site, but in my haste somehow missed the stream and the live stats).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 14, 2017, 05:29:24 am
Had no clue the Ithaca coach who took over for Byrne left after only 2 seasons to get into the New England Revolution's system as a staff coach,  NOT SURE about that decision but he will be coaching the U-23's and I think the U-15's. So the Ithaca job opened up quickly in May that was filled just as quick with former Norwich coach and Midd Alum Kyle Dezotel. He was at Norwich for about 10 years before leaving for Manahttanville College. I thought he would of been the natural choice to replace Saward at Midd but I guess not. He has Ithaca playing well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 14, 2017, 05:46:17 pm
I was rooting for Ithaca in its game against Hamilton as I root for a LL team every time it plays against a NESCAC team.  Unfortunately for 2017 it is NESCAC 2, LL 0, and no LL team has a statement game win yet.  Hope that changes this weekend.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 14, 2017, 07:40:21 pm
I was rooting for Ithaca in its game against Hamilton as I root for a LL team every time it plays against a NESCAC team.  Unfortunately for 2017 it is NESCAC 2, LL 0, and no LL team has a statement game win yet.  Hope that changes this weekend.   

It is noteworthy that both of the NESCAC wins you alluded to were on the road.  Opportunities for signature wins by LL teams are RIT v Rochester, St. Lawrence v Cortland, and Vassar v Oneonta on Saturday (and possibly Vassar v Wesleyan next Tuesday).  After that, probably the last opportunity for a LL team to garner a signature win against an out-of-conference foe is September 27th when Skidmore plays Williams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 15, 2017, 08:24:48 am
Hobart gets a W with a 1:0 win at Potsdam.  Potsdam could have evened it with a nice header in 60th minute that simply missed.  Other than that zone-marking lapse on a corner ... Hobart seemed comfortable.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: EB2319 on September 15, 2017, 08:30:25 am
I watched the 2nd half and didn't think Hobart looked that good.  I'm not sure they ever strung together more than 3 passes. Luckily for them, Potsdam didn't look much better.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 15, 2017, 12:46:42 pm
I watched the 2nd half and didn't think Hobart looked that good.  I'm not sure they ever strung together more than 3 passes. Luckily for them, Potsdam didn't look much better.

My analysis might be biased :) 

Potsdam certainly was very active in second half and that disrupted flow. The extensive subbing by Hobart (they played 24 players and never subbed any of the back five), made it that much harder to play fluidly.  Pretty sure the Hobart GK never had to make a stop (repeating that the missed header would have changed the game), even though he had 20+ GK's and a bunch of punts.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2017, 01:09:19 pm
I don't find you biased at all Part Bart.
Infact your analysis is spot on in my view.

I would  go as far as saying Hobart might be the best 1 win team in the country.
They have always been a competitive team and at times unlucky not to advance and make a November run.

I think most of us on here try to keep our passion for our team to a minimal (as much as can be done consciously).

It is a very difficult thing to be totally objective when discussing the home team.
We might subconsciously see things we want to see, but on the other hand, I think when you love your club/school/team so much we also tend to be harder on them than the average fan would be so it evens out.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2017, 04:19:41 pm
Wow!  An Oswego red card at 15' against the GK should make the Saints' afternoon go more smoothly than anticipated, up a man and facing the backup GK.  A PK following the RC foul has the Saints up 1-0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2017, 04:23:09 pm
Nothing is a given yet though...
Saints are still on the road and u against a good team.

A possession team should be able to take advantage of playing a man up though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2017, 04:32:11 pm
College substitution rules make an early red card potentially less devastating than it would be in other settings, but fatigue is still likely to be a factor against a team than can move the ball as well as SLU does.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2017, 04:44:27 pm
But if SLU was a man up, why keep playing a freshman that is on a yellow?
I don't understand it?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2017, 04:46:48 pm
Inexplicable.  10v10 after a SLU red card.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2017, 05:31:07 pm
The Saints go up 2-0 on a McNamee goal.  The audio stream is about 1 minute behind Live Stats.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 15, 2017, 05:31:49 pm
Needed that.
2-0 SLU.

Still need to get one more and be ready for the big one tomm.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2017, 05:32:30 pm
Is everyone else's video stream not working?  Or is it just me?  Currently using the radio broadcast which is decent but still no video. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 15, 2017, 06:06:50 pm
Nice wins for Saints.  Huge test tomorrow.  Still early in the season but tomorrow should tell us where this Squad will stand for the season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 15, 2017, 08:53:56 pm
Wow. Down 1-0 and playing with 10 men, Union ties up Skidmore. Extra time ...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 15, 2017, 09:16:04 pm
It looks like Skidmore just prevailed in 2OT on an Okoye goal.  What's with the 15' first OT period?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 15, 2017, 09:16:13 pm
Okoye dagger in second OT - Skid 2, Union 1 F
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 16, 2017, 02:04:26 pm
Very even game between Vassar and Oneonta. Video of overtime about to start.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 16, 2017, 07:35:02 pm
In another pitential statement game Cortland, sensing this may be a down year for the Saints, in sn amazing demonstration of sportsmanship gives the ball to a SLU forward inside the 18 and a 1 goal lead. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2017, 07:38:35 pm
Defender just completely whiffed on that.  Nice to see McNamee put home the rebound.  He's stepping up at CF, that's his 5th goal.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 07:39:52 pm
In another pitential statement game Cortland, sensing this may be a down year for the Saints, in sn amazing demonstration of sportsmanship gives the ball to a SLU forward inside the 18 and a 1 goal lead.

Cortland ST bringing back memories of video from 2007 as it is unwatchable..Maybe im spoiled but cannot enjoy a game with that stream.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2017, 07:41:20 pm
Aaand as soon as I comment they give away yet ANOTHER penalty. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 16, 2017, 07:43:18 pm
Bad call on that penalty.
Bad call.
That was not a penalty.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2017, 07:44:09 pm
Bad call on that penalty.
Bad call.
That was not a penalty.

It does seem like this team has had some down right awful luck to start this season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 07:48:40 pm
Ok now the stream looks better. What's the score? 1-1 ?

This would be a big W for SLU
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 16, 2017, 07:55:42 pm
Defender just completely whiffed on that.  Nice to see McNamee put home the rebound.  He's stepping up at CF, that's his 5th goal.
Already has as many goals as last years top scorer (Tapshack  with 5).

The boys have to pick it up on offense for 2nd half.
Giving Cortland wayyy too much respect.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 08:15:29 pm
Cortland scores to start 2nd Half off a corner. I am glad SLU is playing to feet but with Cortland pressing they need to play faster. SLU falling apart here..3-1 Cortland now..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2017, 08:38:19 pm
I thought SLU might be able to turn things around with this game, but they took another step back.  Awful passing, no sense of urgency, terrible defending and no grit to win 50/50 balls.  They have still yet to play a home game so I think that definitely should be considered, but this is still some down right terrible play from them.  Can't remember the last time this team has been all but eliminated from pool C consideration before they've played a league game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 16, 2017, 08:51:15 pm
Defender just completely whiffed on that.  Nice to see McNamee put home the rebound.  He's stepping up at CF, that's his 5th goal.

Adding to the fun, the one guy who is scoring gets a red.
More discipline needed.

Tough to watch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 08:55:37 pm
WOW.....Craziness...Is SLU able to play a tad more conservatively?  I know it is not in their DNA but they have not conceded this many goals to start a season since probably Goodwin was coaching
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 08:56:49 pm
You have to play to your strengths and weaknesses
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2017, 08:59:16 pm
Toshack rarely switches things up so I won't hold my breath.  I'm not a an of this 3 in the back formation.  Really seeing how good of a recruiter Durocher was.  He was always able to get at least 1 or 2 great defenders every year.  I still think Tosh is capable of righting the ship, but the team needs 4 at the back in my opinion.   Again, I think that playing 6 straight road games to start the season takes a toll, but this is just baffling. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 16, 2017, 09:12:00 pm
I agree with your assessment of the brutal scheduling, stlawus.  Tonight's result, in particular, can be chalked up to scheduling.  It's tough enough to play a team of Cortland's caliber on the road, but to do so on the second game of a back-to-back when the home team is fresh is an especially tall order.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 10:20:55 pm
That's what I am saying. I mean right the ship for a few games change it up then if you must play 3 at the back you can switch back. Personally, I would sit with a solid 6 THEN allow the other 4 any freedoms they want in attack mode. They could interchange and have no responsibilities defensively. Basically. a 4-2-3-1 but since SLU's DNA is to attack you give the wingbacks in my 6 to go and overlap but they must be my smartest and fastest players so they can decipher when to go and when to stay. You would confuse defenses and give yourself advantages especially on the counter. Also, I would give the 4 that are my attackers no defensive responsibilities BUT force them to press like mad to create plenty of giveaway's. Cortland was successful tonight doing just that because they knew SLU would not change and keep forcing diagonal balls out of the back and were a step slow moving it around. When it works SLU looks like magic but when it doesn't common opponents press them like mad and have counter after counter and you are leaving your GK out to dry. IDK I only caught the 2nd Half.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 16, 2017, 11:22:51 pm
Really seeing how good of a recruiter Durocher was. 


+k....this is the best point of the night. Durocher had an eye on who would fit his system better than anyone. He would go out and find the right players for what he was trying to do. Sometimes when you are a new Head Coach you make mistakes on players more than you would like.  However, it takes time and it sounds like he did a ton of the recruiting for years under Durocher. So idk.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 18, 2017, 08:13:10 pm
Notes on a scorecard week three. Still no statement wins for ten teams. By LL standings order: 1) Skidmore--it is the league v. Okoye; 2) Vassar--Oneonta result the best in the league to date; 3) Hobart--great defense in two wins and will score goals by committee; 4) RPI--another team that will score by committee making keeper errors like against Wwilliams that much more painful; 5) SLU--still a mess longing for the ghost of Sam Mello or some other great central midfielder from years past; 6) Clarkson--Chris has to be worried about the back and with good reason; 7) RIT--humbling loss to UR reinforces their status as a bottom third team; 8) Bard--trouble scoring means real trouble for a team whose offense kept them in League games the last couple years; 9) Ithaca---outplays excellent Hamilton team everywhere but in final score which bodes well for their playoff chances; and 10) Union--Okoye shows that the emperor has no clothes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 19, 2017, 03:02:47 pm
Totally agree with all points made.
Hobart seems to be rounding the corner and Vassar did the LL proud by holding Oneonta at home.
I think this year will be the most unpredictable in the last 10 years of the LL.
This is even moreso with the addition of two playoff teams.

Here is how I see it wrapping up:

6. Union gets in this year. First they hardly ever finish below this position and the program really needs a post season run.
5. RPI will get in. Since when do they not and Coach Clinton has them playing hard as usual.
4. Skidmore.Just a feeling about them dropping a couple games they should not.
3. SLU. Will have to win atleast a game on the road to get a
2. Hobart. Unfortunately for everyone else , I think Hobart have already experienced their early season slump and will be a favorite to add a tournament crown to last yeas league title.
1. Defending Champs will be tough to beat, but I still don't see them repeating unless they have home field throughout.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 19, 2017, 04:54:30 pm
Great picks Saint.  My only dissent is that I believe Ithaca is going to get in and break one of those other teams' hearts.  It is 2011 all over again, not because the Saints will be ranked Number 1 at the end of the regular season, or because Vassar as the lowest seed will knock off Number 1, rather because the newcomer, Ithaca, will pull a RIT and make a run in the playoffs.  I totally agree that by playoff time Hobart will be the team to beat.  I also agree that Skidmore is going to take some knocks.  Okoye may have as productive a season as Sebastian Janssen did for Union in 2012, yet, as that season proved for Union, one goal scorer is not enough.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 19, 2017, 05:29:59 pm
It is actually painful to watch this SLU team.  Just gave 2 goals in less than 15 seconds against Plattsburgh.  I don't know what else has to happen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 19, 2017, 05:34:53 pm
Now 3-1.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 19, 2017, 05:53:40 pm
This SLU team has now conceded 17 goals in 7 games.  They conceded 24 in 15 games in 2009 which (until it appears now) was the worst season (in my opinion) since the mid 90s.  The '05 team had a leaky defense but still got to the sweet 16.  They've had plenty of opportunities to convince me they could right the ship but this is going to be a bad season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 19, 2017, 06:43:32 pm
Allows three goals in 5 minutes, defender has the most shots and Augustine doesn't play.  This is a team in total disarray. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 19, 2017, 07:02:52 pm
Also big game for Vassar tonight starting in a few minutes at Wesleyan.  Gives them a chance for a quality result on the road against a NESCAC school.  Additionally, given the academic similarities between the two schools, it is very likely that they are competing for the same recruits. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 19, 2017, 07:53:07 pm
Vassar, playing without Mrlik it appears, goes down 1-0 in the first half after carrying play early.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 20, 2017, 09:45:41 am
And with that loss the SUNYAC rejoices, it seems, besides "possibly" Skidmore there will be no at large bids handed out to the LL this year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 20, 2017, 12:24:56 pm
Interesting day yesterday:  Coach Tosh plays the injury card; Vassar plays like a LL tournament bubble team without leading scorer; Hero sports moves LL up from 11th strongest conference to 5th, ahead of SUNYAC even though LL doesn't have a signature win and SUNYAC has prevailed in most of the matchups between the top echelon teams; and RPI has mid-level regional ranking, a further testament to Coach Clinton's considerable influence and making RPI a contender for an at large bid.  This weekend already poses do or die games starting with SLU v. Union. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 20, 2017, 02:32:14 pm
Interesting day yesterday:  Coach Tosh plays the injury card; Vassar plays like a LL tournament bubble team without leading scorer; Hero sports moves LL up from 11th strongest conference to 5th, ahead of SUNYAC even though LL doesn't have a signature win and SUNYAC has prevailed in most of the matchups between the top echelon teams; and RPI has mid-level regional ranking, a further testament to Coach Clinton's considerable influence and making RPI a contender for an at large bid.  This weekend already poses do or die games starting with SLU v. Union.

This weekend's match of Hobart at Skidmore turns out to be important (beyond the Statesmen wanting to wipe away the sting of an overtime 1:0 home loss to Skidmore in last year's LL tournament that certainly played a part in Hobart missing the NCAAs).  Hobart already knows they need to win LL champ to dance. If Skidmore loses, then (I think) they will also need to win the LL champ.

Hobart looks to be better than the mid-table SUNYAC teams (beating Potsdam away, Genesseo at home, and in preseason drawing v. Oswego at Oswego). They have a chance to make a statement later this season when they host Cortland.

And a shout out to Saint of Old for his support in an earlier post. 
Sorry to see STL struggling in the early season: they have been the standard by which the other LL teams are measured!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 21, 2017, 12:42:08 pm
Much respect on the shout Bart, simply telling the truth.
The great thing about our game is the eye test. whether you win or lose one can tell whether the tam is playing good soccer (and if they are,  consistently winning is just a matter of time anyway).

I think I played 4 straight OT games against Hobart.
That's a team that has always brought it year in year out, difference lately is that the talent has improved and that is dangerous when paired to meet the work ethic.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 23, 2017, 04:47:42 pm
Hobart leads Skidmore 1-0 at 70'.  Okoye had a PK saved at 18', Santos red card at 35', and Hobart goal at 37'.

At 75', SLU and Union are tied 0-0.  0 SOG for Union.  Complete domination by Saints, but Union is packing it back and preventing quality chances.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 23, 2017, 05:04:05 pm
Skidmore ties it up at 86'.  SLU-Union to OT.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 23, 2017, 06:17:16 pm
Hobart leads Skidmore 1-0 at 70'.  Okoye had a PK saved at 18', Santos red card at 35', and Hobart goal at 37'.

At 75', SLU and Union are tied 0-0.  0 SOG for Union.  Complete domination by Saints, but Union is packing it back and preventing quality chances.

Big red card as he will miss the Williams game mid-week. Big break for Williams
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 24, 2017, 04:34:31 pm
Notes on a scorecard first full weekend of LL games: 1) Skidmore--gutty performance with Santos out most of the game on a red portends well for a Thoroughbred finals redemption after last year's Poughkeepsie horror show; 2) RPI--close game against Bard confirms overrated assessment; 3) Clarkson--huge win at home over a quality Ithaca side and what a positive feeling during the game from Coach Taylor and his bench; 4) Vassar--gets game winner against run if play in first half and is totally dominated by a weak Rochester team in the second casting significant doubt on its ability to repeat; 5) Hobart--missed chance to cast out last year's demons in a contest they should have been able to close out a man up although are likely to meet up with Skidmore again in the final; 6) SLU--rooters will point to shot domination against Union and detractors will point to inability to finish (can't remember the last time a player had 10 shots and no points); 7) Union--while packing it in worked to preserve a point in hindsight it is not the way to impress NCAA voters; 8) Ithaca--defense lets them down leaving them squarely on the bubble; 9) Bard--another year where close is not enough; and 10) RIT--outplayed Vassar for most of game and gave other teams a blueprint for de-throning the reigning champs.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 26, 2017, 07:30:22 pm
Was just about to comment that SLU was really struggling against Clarkson's press and then Augustine scores on a nice run down the right flank off a take away at midfield .   Union tied at the half against Fisher.  Not much going on there, only 3 shots a piece.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 26, 2017, 09:13:41 pm
SLU gets a nice 2-0 win at Clarkson.  Union beats SJF 3-1.  Again, I have no idea why they continue to schedule such weak non-conference games.  SJF is their toughest non-conference opponent.  7-1-1 is an intrinsically good record but again, another weak schedule for them.  I think they have a decent team too.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 26, 2017, 10:36:39 pm
Did he change formations or is he still playing 3 at the back? From what I remember Durocher used to press his opponents way more than I have seen when I have watched them the past 2 years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 26, 2017, 10:47:53 pm
3 at the back again, but dropped another midfielder into a DM role.  They didn't press, mostly played out of the back and through the wings.  Clarkson only had one decent chance.   Much better performance tonight.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 27, 2017, 11:11:06 am
Big Big  week in LL.
Bard v. Vassar
RIT v. Hobart
These are interesting games, that could potentially trip up two LL favorites.
Bard has already shown with their 2OT game against RPI that they will compete this year, and Hobart needs three points as too many ties in this league can prove costly with 10 teams competing for 6 spots.

A strong road win for SLU last night.
Clarkson is still in it at 1-1 and will feel like they can beat anyone in the league on their day.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 27, 2017, 06:00:10 pm
Vassar beat Bard, 1-0. First half was played evenly; second half not so much.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 27, 2017, 06:14:39 pm
And Hobart just beat RIT in OT. Didn't see the game, but stats look even.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 27, 2017, 06:19:10 pm
Was a very even game, though Hobart had the distinct 'edge' in fouls (and maybe also yellow cards).
Good goal by Hobart was negated by sloppy play on corner 2' later that allowed RIT to even score.
RIT may have been unlucky with a ball off crossbar that beat GK
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 27, 2017, 07:23:35 pm
Had the three screens going. Williams very dominsnt in first half in what could have been a 2 or 3 goal half instead of 1.  More even in the second half with Skidmore creating quality chances near end to no avail. Overall Williams a notch above. Vassar should have had 2 or 3 as well with Bard looking inept for large portions of the game. Vassar 2-0 in league against two winless teams. Union game should tell alot. Hobart possessed and built up while RIT played for counter. RIT could have easily won this game in the last 10 minutes with a counter attack goal. Moral of story--this league is wide open but for Bard.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 27, 2017, 10:59:31 pm
Had the three screens going.

Gotta love it! Hardcore LL fan, no doubt about it! 

Williams very dominsnt in first half in what could have been a 2 or 3 goal half instead of 1.  More even in the second half with Skidmore creating quality chances near end to no avail. Overall Williams a notch above. Vassar should have had 2 or 3 as well with Bard looking inept for large portions of the game. Vassar 2-0 in league against two winless teams. Union game should tell alot. Hobart possessed and built up while RIT played for counter. RIT could have easily won this game in the last 10 minutes with a counter attack goal. Moral of story--this league is wide open but for Bard.

I was unable to see any of the games and appreciate your summaries.  Your "moral of the story" is right on target.  I expect to see a logjam somewhere around 14 points as teams battle for playoff spots.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 29, 2017, 02:23:59 pm
Big Saturday for the LL.  Fixture predictions follow:
Clarkson 1  RIT  1
Vassar 1  Union  1
Skidmore 2  RPI 1
Hobart 2  Bard 0
SLU 1  Ithaca 0

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on September 29, 2017, 04:07:54 pm
Big Saturday for the LL.  Fixture predictions follow:
Clarkson 1  RIT  1
Vassar 1  Union  1
Skidmore 2  RPI 1
Hobart 2  Bard 0
SLU 1  Ithaca 0

It's hard to quibble with any of these picks in the goal-challenged LL this year.  Two candidates for larger margins than those projected are Hobart at home against Bard and SLU on the road at Ithaca.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on September 29, 2017, 09:19:49 pm
Big Saturday for the LL.  Fixture predictions follow:
Clarkson 1  RIT  1
Vassar 1  Union  1
Skidmore 2  RPI 1
Hobart 2  Bard 0
SLU 1  Ithaca 0

It's hard to quibble with any of these picks in the goal-challenged LL this year.  Two candidates for larger margins than those projected are Hobart at home against Bard and SLU on the road at Ithaca.

I'm thinking that Vassar will get a full result. Union will pack it in, making it hard for Vassar to get one goal (much less two). But, Union will have a difficult time getting forward.

Am expecting Skidmore and RPI to create a 0:0 tie -- Skidmore relies on direct, forceful play and set pieces. RPI will be very organized and it will be hard to go forward with a counter because of keeping nine behind the ball.

Want to believe that Hobart will score more, but they are averaging exactly one goal per game (7 goals for, 6 goals against) after seven games....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 30, 2017, 12:05:58 pm
Since I saw Skidmore on Wednesday I should make some comments. First off they desperately missed Santos in the middle of the pitch. To me that is why Williams dominated them for most of the game. The lone goal came on a 35 yard shot that was hit nicely but should have been saved by the GK. He was screened on the shot by his own defender and also a 5:30pm sun which was a huge factor. Other than that I thought Skidmore's GK was decent. Okoye was playing up top all game but Skidmore was struggling to get him the ball. In the last 20 minutes he started to come back into midfield himself a bit to get the ball. He had a couple chances with 1 very dangerous look. He is very cagey as he can lull the defenders asleep by not doing much and then out of nowhere he is running like mad..Still he was not to effective in this game. I thought #8 Zieff showed some great skill on the flank in the 2nd Half and #13 was skilled but kinda faded in the 2nd Half. With Santos they should beat RPI today IMO.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 30, 2017, 04:02:53 pm
Nice road performance by SLU at Ithaca to get a 3-1 win.  Came out flat to start the second half and quickly conceded, but a freshman stepped up to get the game winner and they kept the pressure on.  Even with SLU being up at half I would say Ithaca was the better team for 60 minutes.  Liberty League play is a whole different beast.

Skidmore ties it up with a minute left against RPI, great game so far. Hobart and Bard are tied early in the 2nd half, don't think Bard can withstand the pressure.

Vassar wins easily at Union.  I'm not sure if I'm fully sold on the Brewers yet going by their schedule so far.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 30, 2017, 05:34:01 pm
Bard 1, Hobart 1 F 2OT
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 30, 2017, 05:43:24 pm
Totally agree with all points made.
Hobart seems to be rounding the corner and Vassar did the LL proud by holding Oneonta at home.
I think this year will be the most unpredictable in the last 10 years of the LL.
This is even moreso with the addition of two playoff teams.

Here is how I see it wrapping up:

6. Union gets in this year. First they hardly ever finish below this position and the program really needs a post season run.
5. RPI will get in. Since when do they not and Coach Clinton has them playing hard as usual.
4. Skidmore.Just a feeling about them dropping a couple games they should not.
3. SLU. Will have to win atleast a game on the road to get a
2. Hobart. Unfortunately for everyone else , I think Hobart have already experienced their early season slump and will be a favorite to add a tournament crown to last yeas league title.
1. Defending Champs will be tough to beat, but I still don't see them repeating unless they have home field throughout.
@ this point I am still sticking with predictions
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 01, 2017, 12:38:32 pm
Yes it is time again for notes on a scorecard from a pundit who was 1 for 5 on his Saturday predictions.  Most important game for the LL and its NCAA prospects was a UAA game in Rochester between UR and UC.  Why?  Because it shows how far LL teams have to go to catch the elite this year.  UC destroys UR in first 20 minutes, a team that decimated RIT and tied one of the league favorites Hobart away.  Now to the teams in order of standing: 1) Vassar--feasts on bottom part of the table having found a second up top threat in Novas, a development that should have all the LL teams worried; 2) SLU--Augustine's 1 v 4 run down the right against Clarkson for a superb finish jump starts the SLU LL season and puts them again among the LL elite; 3) Skidmore--But for last minute goal could have easily been 0-2 week and offense that is great on paper is looking anemic; 4) Hobart--Home tie against weak Bard is second most important LL game for NCAA purposes as one of league favorites should not have this kinda result, which could have easily been a loss if Bard finishes a six yard shot in the second OT; 5) RPI--mantra is defense wins championships and but for a lapse in the mixer would have had a big win against Skidmore; 6) Clarkson--3 shots in an OT game and an 0-2 week puts big dent in playoff aspirations; 7) RIT--Showing signs of life after missing chances to beat Hobart in OT and pulling off Clarkson win, although UR result provides a reality check; 8) Union--Letter to Coach Guinn, the days of making the NCAA tourney and not making the LL playoffs are over so an undefeated record against cupcake non-conference opponents actually does your team a disservice in not readying them for LL play; 9) Bard--Respectable results on the score line but still a team that is woefully overmatched by the top LL teams; and 10) Ithaca--Came into the league with a legacy of losing to LL teams in their non-conference fixtures and that legacy has not changed now they are in league despite looking good in preseason.       
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 02, 2017, 04:52:50 pm
Nice recap as usual, Deutsch!

In response to stlawus:

Vassar wins easily at Union.  I'm not sure if I'm fully sold on the Brewers yet going by their schedule so far.

I'm not sure I'm sold on any  LL team yet.  Nevertheless, my default value is always to go with SLU.  Their talent level is above the rest in the conference and they show signs of coming out of their early season slumber.  I fully expect Hobart to get it going soon as well.  As long as they have Okoye and a decent defense behind him, Skidmore is a threat to win any one game, although prevailing in two or three consecutive tournament games may prove challenging.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Sandy on October 03, 2017, 12:37:55 pm
Yes it is time again for notes on a scorecard from a pundit who was 1 for 5 on his Saturday predictions.  Most important game for the LL and its NCAA prospects was a UAA game in Rochester between UR and UC.  Why?  Because it shows how far LL teams have to go to catch the elite this year.  UC destroys UR in first 20 minutes, a team that decimated RIT and tied one of the league favorites Hobart away.

This might mean something or it might mean nothing. Just to play devil's advocate, in 2010 we (SLU) beat Houghton. Houghton beat St. Bonaventure. St. Bonaventure beat Cleveland State. Cleveland State beat Akron. Does that mean we were better than Akron in the year that they won the NCAA championship? I don't think so. The results, while on the surface may seem troubling, aren't as clear cut as you make them out to be. That being said I do think the LL has gotten a bit weaker overall since my time. I might be biased though.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 03, 2017, 04:52:00 pm
I get it.  Many times the transitive property of soccer scores doesn't work.  Using it there would have been a whole bunch of mediocre teams better that the National Champ Jumbos last year.  Be that as it may, I do think the UR results are a litmus test for the league and agree with Omma that there are question marks surrounding every LL team.  On a different subject, every once in a blue moon I call out a player of week injustice, and it is almost always a Bard player that is underappreciated.  This week the defensive pow was a goalie who threw two shutouts by making a grand total of, wait for it, 4 saves.  The Bard keeper gave up two goals on the road and made 23 saves--an unbelievable two-game number that would have gotten my vote.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 03, 2017, 05:09:19 pm
Yes it is time again for notes on a scorecard from a pundit who was 1 for 5 on his Saturday predictions.  Most important game for the LL and its NCAA prospects was a UAA game in Rochester between UR and UC.  Why?  Because it shows how far LL teams have to go to catch the elite this year.  UC destroys UR in first 20 minutes, a team that decimated RIT and tied one of the league favorites Hobart away.

This might mean something or it might mean nothing. Just to play devil's advocate, in 2010 we (SLU) beat Houghton. Houghton beat St. Bonaventure. St. Bonaventure beat Cleveland State. Cleveland State beat Akron. Does that mean we were better than Akron in the year that they won the NCAA championship? I don't think so. The results, while on the surface may seem troubling, aren't as clear cut as you make them out to be. That being said I do think the LL has gotten a bit weaker overall since my time. I might be biased though.

Not sure when you played. but I think the league was strongest 09-13.   I guess you could make a case for 2015 with two teams winning NCAA tournament games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 04, 2017, 09:31:12 am
SLU v. RPI:

The battle of the three letters always produces fireworks.
It is weird but I still have not gotten a full read these teams.
SLU has been up and down and in the middle, summed up perfectly by a 4-4-2 record.
RPI playing well, but disappointed to see them fail to hold on for what would have been a BIG 3 points against Skidmore in their last outing.

I have this one as a nail biter that goes into OT.

Home team has slight advantage once there.


Hobart v. Ithaca
Hobart has to win.
They have the better team, but as SLU just realized, Ithaca plays really well at home. Ithaca also know that they are playing for their lives and do not want to start conference play 0-3 in a brand new league. More than the loss, this might have a negative impact on morale going forward.

Hobart really wants this one, not only to put that Bard tie in the rear view, but also to make sure the Vassar and company don't get too far ahead of them in terms of seeding in conference playoffs.

Hobart might send a message in this one.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 04, 2017, 05:57:33 pm
SLU grinds out a 1-0 win at home against RPI.  Still a bit early but they appear to be righting the ship.  Hobart currently up 1-0 at Ithaca and look to be in control.  Pressure's on Vassar this weekend playing at home against Skidmore.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 04, 2017, 08:34:24 pm
SLU grinds out a 1-0 win at home against RPI.  Still a bit early but they appear to be righting the ship.  Hobart currently up 1-0 at Ithaca and look to be in control.  Pressure's on Vassar this weekend playing at home against Skidmore.

Hobart wins 2-0, completely outplayed in first half, quite positive in second and could have been a bigger score line save for some misses and great goalie play by Ithaca's keeper.  Ithaca a better team than their LL record would suggest.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 04, 2017, 08:45:42 pm
SLU grinds out a 1-0 win at home against RPI.  Still a bit early but they appear to be righting the ship.  Hobart currently up 1-0 at Ithaca and look to be in control.  Pressure's on Vassar this weekend playing at home against Skidmore.

Hobart wins 2-0, completely outplayed in first half, quite positive in second and could have been a bigger score line save for some misses and great goalie play by Ithaca's keeper.  Ithaca a better team than their LL record would suggest.

Indeed, Ithaca is a good team, especially at home.
It is really unfortunate for them.
They had  great start to the season.
They are a good team, know they are a good team, yet sit 0-3 in a brand new league.
Problem was they let a 1 goal lead slip and lost that first league game to Clarkson.
Cannot afford to do that in this league.

Luckily for them, the league is still young.
They have 6 games left and have already faced two of the more dangerous teams in the conference.
There is hope because the playoffs have 6 teams.

This league is almost like the prem.
There is as much intrigue at the bottom as there is at the top.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 05, 2017, 08:08:33 am
Hobart has to be incredibly frustrated by last year's ending. They should have prevailed against Skidmore in regulation and then to lose in penalties. If game goes other way they have Vassar at home and they dominated Vassar away with their physicality.  Hobart is my pick this year to rise above the rest. SLU offensively impaired again having the two most overrated returning first teamers on the offensive end.

Those two overrated Saints are finally coming around this year, with one of them assisting on the GW to the other :)

Goal scorer is actually a junior who scored his 2nd goal of the year, 10th of his career (All 10 goals either game winning or game tying goals).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 05, 2017, 09:04:32 am
I did give Mr. Augustine a shout out on his one goal this season and 10 goals in 3 years is approaching Jansennesque numbers.  So who wins the LL finals rematch in the biggest game of the weekend?  I would make a pick but then like last week would be embarrassed by its accuracy.  Does Skidmore come out charging using their physicality advantage knowing that 2 pks killed their NCAA hopes last year?  Which Vassar team shows up, the one that laid an egg against Wesleyan or looked very strong against Oneonta, the one that dominated RIT in the first half or the one that was dominated by RIT in the second?  So many questions, so little time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 05, 2017, 11:22:54 am
I'm not sold on Vassar.  Great talent and a more eye-pleasing brand of soccer than what I see watching RPI, or Hobart, or Skidmore (and am still not sure what I am seeing when watching the various SLU versions of soccer from this fall).  This said, Vassar struggles with physical play. Maybe they will be better this year with physical opponents (and the tie with Oneonta suggests this)?

Still, I see Skidmore grinding a 2:1 win this weekend

More broadly, Skidmore has some talent -- as others have noted; but, they win by smashing into people and grinding and making the game very disjointed.  Hobart does the same (and there were 37 fouls, eight yellows a a straight red card in the Skidmore/Hobart match -- and it could have been much more if the ref had been tracking the off-the-ball contact by players on both teams).  Both RPI and SLU are very committed to possessing and will work hard to get the ball away from opponents. This is not the same as the physicality of Skidmore and Hobart, but is still disruptive for a skill-based team, like Vassar, to thrive.

Ithaca and RIT seem to be unlucky in that they play smart soccer but still have some breakdowns.  Both these teams are working to succeed in LL, but maybe lack a little depth and wear down in games?

Union, Bard and Clarkson all seem to be struggling to match the skill and physicality of LL teams.  Bard actually is more physical than in past years, Clarkson seems to be going for the skill-based approach (head coach was at Vassar before taking this position), and Union just packs it in against LL opponents and hopes for a counter, while feasting on weaker non-league teams (as others have noted). 

Next weekend, Hobart will play at Union on Friday and then Saturday at Skidmore.  I can imagine no goals being scored in either game (given the defensive shape of the two home teams and Hobart's ability to not score).

So, my thinking is that SLU and Vassar are likely to be two of the top seeded teams for LL tournament (and showcase the two most different styles of play in LL).
Skidmore and Hobart will have some blemishes (lots of ties, maybe a loss or two, some wins) and will be tough outs. If they have to see each other early in the tournament, that could become an epic third-time's the charm for Hobart, or ...  I think one of these two wins LL.
Fifth and sixth place teams are not clear, but my bias is that RPI will be one of them. Still thinking that Ithaca, or RIT, or Union, will get in as a sixth seed (and then we'll see what they can do!!!).

Saint of Old noted in a recent post that the parity in the LL is such that teams currently in places 6-10 are all strong and capable and there is lots of soccer to be played.  Lots of the dust will settle after next weeks Fri/Sat double-game slates.  This weekend provides us the Skidmore/Vassar game and the other matches (if they play out as I suspect) will clarify top half and bottom half of the league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 05, 2017, 10:54:45 pm
I did give Mr. Augustine a shout out on his one goal this season and 10 goals in 3 years is approaching Jansennesque numbers.  So who wins the LL finals rematch in the biggest game of the weekend?  I would make a pick but then like last week would be embarrassed by its accuracy.  Does Skidmore come out charging using their physicality advantage knowing that 2 pks killed their NCAA hopes last year?  Which Vassar team shows up, the one that laid an egg against Wesleyan or looked very strong against Oneonta, the one that dominated RIT in the first half or the one that was dominated by RIT in the second?  So many questions, so little time.
Good ol Sebastian Jansen, one of the most dangerous strikers the league has ever seen.
Jansen, Beek and Gorman are perhaps the best strikers of the decade or maybe 2...
For a holding midfielder, 10 goals in a career is not bad, 10 game winners in 2.5 years is to me impressive.
As I am sure you know as a man of the game "there are goals and there are goals".
I had a coach once who was fond of saying that in a 7-0 game, he would see normally sedated players attempt overhead bicycle kicks in an attempt to score, when the game is tied or your team is down, the ball gets heavier, space gets tighter and time moves faster.
That's when the real ballers come to shine.

As for where we are now in the season:
Man, is this a crazy year or what.
I will just sum it up as saying that at this point, right now, I cannot with reasonably certainty rule anyone out of the conference tournament.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 06, 2017, 02:03:04 am
I did give Mr. Augustine a shout out on his one goal this season and 10 goals in 3 years is approaching Jansennesque numbers.  So who wins the LL finals rematch in the biggest game of the weekend?  I would make a pick but then like last week would be embarrassed by its accuracy.  Does Skidmore come out charging using their physicality advantage knowing that 2 pks killed their NCAA hopes last year?  Which Vassar team shows up, the one that laid an egg against Wesleyan or looked very strong against Oneonta, the one that dominated RIT in the first half or the one that was dominated by RIT in the second?  So many questions, so little time.
Good ol Sebastian Jansen, one of the most dangerous strikers the league has ever seen.
Jansen, Beek and Gorman are perhaps the best strikers of the decade or maybe 2...
For a holding midfielder, 10 goals in a career is not bad, 10 game winners in 2.5 years is to me impressive.
As I am sure you know as a man of the game "there are goals and there are goals".
I had a coach once who was fond of saying that in a 7-0 game, he would see normally sedated players attempt overhead bicycle kicks in an attempt to score, when the game is tied or your team is down, the ball gets heavier, space gets tighter and time moves faster.
That's when the real ballers come to shine.

As for where we are now in the season:
Man, is this a crazy year or what.
I will just sum it up as saying that at this point, right now, I cannot with reasonably certainty rule anyone out of the conference tournament.

Jansen was about the most overrated player the league has ever seen.  How many goes did he score in the LL tourney? NCAA Tourney? Big players score big goals in big games. Kid was a decent player who never got a Chance to prove it because his coach preferred the ego massage of winning 7-0 over anybody begging for a game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 06, 2017, 06:22:19 pm
A 2:00 a.m. rant against Mr. Jansen.  I hope you are on the west coast.  In the words of Samuel L. Jackson from Pulp Fiction, "well allow me to retort."  As Saint said, Jansen was one of the most dangerous strikers the league has seen scoring 20 goals in one year alone, 2012.  As you are fond of SLU perhaps your animus toward Jansen is that he broke SLU's heart and their Number 7 ranking with the winning header his senior year.  Or maybe because his laser off the goalie's chest in 2009 against SLU assisted on the winning goal that helped keep SLU out of the LL tourney that year.  Not only was Jansen the rookie of the year in 2009 but also was the LL player of the year in 2012 making All-American and routinely earning player of the week while amassing 21 points in league games alone.  He never scored an NCAA goal because Union never made the tourney.  Perhaps his greatest achievement was that he was a UNANIMOUS First Teamer in 2012.  Why do I capitalize that?  As I was looking up Jansen's accomplishments I noticed a dearth of LL first XI players with asterisks.  In the history of the league commencing 2004 only 9 players have achieved that honor (DeMello, probably the best player the league has produced--Saint may even agree with me on that-- stands alone at doing it twice) with the last two in 2013.  This is fewer than the number of All Americans the league has generated.  You don't get every opposing coach in the league to vote for you unless you are something else.  That is rarified air.  Here's to you Sebastiaan in this flashback moment and no I am not his brother nor was I born in the RSA.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 07, 2017, 12:29:42 pm
I'm glad you went and did all that research. He earned  a great set of accolades, but I was never personally impressed by him. That's probably because I was never impressed with his team as a whole.

You know, if someone were to hold the opinion that a player was overrated, then listing their accolades would sort of back that up...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 07, 2017, 02:56:20 pm
I get it.  At times I have been known to view certain players as overrated.  In Jansen's case his stats led to the accolades as opposed to when there is a disconnect between stats and accolades.  Union came out of its shell, dominated the second half, missed an open net in the 84th minute and RPI makes them pay with a 88th minute goal off a set piece.  Vassar and Skidmore scoreless after a foul filled 1st half and Ithaca destroys Bard.  Like those who have expressed this sentiment already, still don't know who is the cream of this LL crop.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 07, 2017, 05:33:04 pm
Extremely disappointing result for SLU today against RIT.  Huge lapse of focus at the end of regulation resulted in RIT equalizing.  Overtime was even worse.  Players losing their first touch all over the place and half of the passes made were directly to RIT players.  Seems like everyone else drew today in the league as well.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 07, 2017, 08:45:34 pm
So this is the goal that Vassar GK conceded to Skidmore today?  WOW I mean it's sunny out but that GK for Vassar would find the pine real fast if I was in charge.



https://boxcast.tv/highlights/vassar-mens-soccer-vs-skidmore-college-370798/752368/z7ysdl51iopgumhjklqm

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 07, 2017, 09:03:21 pm
Extremely disappointing result for SLU today against RIT.  Huge lapse of focus at the end of regulation resulted in RIT equalizing.  Overtime was even worse.  Players losing their first touch all over the place and half of the passes made were directly to RIT players.  Seems like everyone else drew today in the league as well.


I caught the highlights on SLU's site. Those are 2 BAD goals to concede to RIT. Both goals were total loss of concentration and weak marking and not sticking your opponent. They need some bite in the back for sure. Also, the missed PK. Looked like it was raining so maybe that affected the field? Still as a SLU fan like you guys are you gotta be happy that everyone in LL seems to be beating each other up and that you look at the table and see SLU in 1st place. Still it will not matter much in November if you are defending like that
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 07, 2017, 09:44:01 pm
Extremely disappointing result for SLU today against RIT.  Huge lapse of focus at the end of regulation resulted in RIT equalizing.  Overtime was even worse.  Players losing their first touch all over the place and half of the passes made were directly to RIT players.  Seems like everyone else drew today in the league as well.


I caught the highlights on SLU's site. Those are 2 BAD goals to concede to RIT. Both goals were total loss of concentration and weak marking and not sticking your opponent. They need some bite in the back for sure. Also, the missed PK. Looked like it was raining so maybe that affected the field? Still as a SLU fan like you guys are you gotta be happy that everyone in LL seems to be beating each other up and that you look at the table and see SLU in 1st place. Still it will not matter much in November if you are defending like that

The defending has been pretty good the last 3 games, but more often than not this has been the case.  I still would prefer 4 in the back.  The good news is that Dede is stepping up and taking over.  But I agree, none of it matters come November if the back line continues to have mental lapses.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 09, 2017, 11:35:23 am
What a LL we have on our hands.

Clarkson does very well to tie Hobart.
Hobart having real trouble scoring and Clarkson seems determined to hang on for a post season qualification.

Too bad for them Ithaca also intends to get to the post-season and had the best weekend in the conference with a dismantling of Bard.
Ithaca will cause some people trouble this year and are seemingly putting it together.

RPI is RPI, they will be in the post season, you can count on it.

Skidmore will as well, but have tied too many games to have a realistic chance at #1 overall seed.
Vassar is doing very well and are poised to win the conference regular season title.

SLU could have really turned the season around in no uncertain terms, but fell 2 minutes short due to lack of concentration.

RIT is still in this thing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: vassarfan on October 09, 2017, 11:55:47 am
Hey guys I played at Vassar a few years back and just started following the league again last year. I just wanted to thank you all for your posts. Its great to get insight from people watching the games as I miss most of them and unfortunately the school write-ups don't really tell the full story.

Don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but in the case of Jansen, I don't think he was overrated at all. I battled against him for four years and thought he was a tough and skilled player that carried his team for most of his career. His individual accolades can be debated but I always thought his impact on the pitch spoke for itself. 

Quick question for the St. Lawrence bloggers. I played 09-12 and thought St. Lawrence had by far the most talented team in the league. Has the talent level dipped a bit on your squad since past years or was it just exceptionally good during those years? For reference, some of the guys on those teams were Brendan Gorman, Demello and Laird. I always thought Gorman was by far the best player in the league and it was really too bad he got hurt because that team would have been special.

Anyways thanks again for your posts. Really enjoy reading them and keeping up with the league
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 09, 2017, 12:06:25 pm
Hey guys I played at Vassar a few years back and just started following the league again last year. I just wanted to thank you all for your posts. Its great to get insight from people watching the games as I miss most of them and unfortunately the school write-ups don't really tell the full story.

Don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but in the case of Jansen, I don't think he was overrated at all. I battled against him for four years and thought he was a tough and skilled player that carried his team for most of his career. His individual accolades can be debated but I always thought his impact on the pitch spoke for itself. 

Quick question for the St. Lawrence bloggers. I played 09-12 and thought St. Lawrence had by far the most talented team in the league. Has the talent level dipped a bit on your squad since past years or was it just exceptionally good during those years? For reference, some of the guys on those teams were Brendan Gorman, Demello and Laird. I always thought Gorman was by far the best player in the league and it was really too bad he got hurt because that team would have been special.

Anyways thanks again for your posts. Really enjoy reading them and keeping up with the league
Welcome Brother.
I hated Vassar, but again it was because they always played tough.
They were new to the league during my era but played extremely hard back then and you knew it was only a matter of time before the program took off.

As to your question, yes, SLU had quite a bit of fire power back then.
Those teams also included Bednarsky (an all-time great midfielder for the team) the brilliant goalie Abernathy and Harry Copeland, the 7 foot technical defender.
I don't think the team has taken a dip talent wise, I think (as has been debated here) SLU now has 2 all-time great Saint  midfielders on the team and a young core of players that will come good in time.

This team will come good. Simply going through a transition at the moment, but still, currently on a modest 5 game unbeaten streak and lead the LL.

I agree with your assessment and believe that had Gorman and Demello not been badly injured the team would have won a 2nd championship duing the time period yo u referenced. In 2011 the team was #1 the entire season despite losing all three starting fwds to season ending injuries.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 09, 2017, 01:57:02 pm
Welcome Vassar fan.  Your 2012 team win against Tufts in the NCAAs was against a group that would go on to win 2 national championships.  Very impressive.  Saint stole my thunder with his summary but here is this week's notes on a scorecard in order of current LL standings: 1) SLU--Tie against under .500 RIT at home due to poor defense and an inexplicable lack of OT urgency destroys any Pool C aspirations and renders this week's fixture against Vassar a must win given Vassar's 6 points from Union and RIT compared to SLU's 2; 2) Vassar--Goalie gaffe on 50 yard free kick keeps a league race alive although a repeat of 2015's home weekend wins against SLU and Clarkson will virtually seal regular season; 3) Hobart--Second tie against bottom table team also kills Pool C aspirations; 4) Skidmore--Offense lags against good teams and lucky not to be a 4 point team with 88th minute goal against RPI and gift from Vassar; 5) RPI--Last second win against Union can't hide fact that this is a paper tiger; 6) Clarkson--Tie with Hobart gives life but now needs a repeat of Coach Taylor's first game against Vassar; 7) RIT--Team that basically played even against the league leaders deserves a better place in the standings; 8) Ithaca--A good team takes out its frustrations against Bard but still only has spoiler role; 9) Union--Creative offensive play against RPI deserves kudos but alas; and 10) Bard--Hard to get results giving up an average of around 20 shots per game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 09, 2017, 02:14:03 pm
What a LL we have on our hands.

Clarkson does very well to tie Hobart.
Hobart having real trouble scoring and Clarkson seems determined to hang on for a post season qualification.

Too bad for them Ithaca also intends to get to the post-season and had the best weekend in the conference with a dismantling of Bard.
Ithaca will cause some people trouble this year and are seemingly putting it together.

RPI is RPI, they will be in the post season, you can count on it.

Skidmore will as well, but have tied too many games to have a realistic chance at #1 overall seed.
Vassar is doing very well and are poised to win the conference regular season title.

SLU could have really turned the season around in no uncertain terms, but fell 2 minutes short due to lack of concentration.

RIT is still in this thing.

Hobart can. not. score (1.1 GF, 0.8GA over 10 games, including six OT/five 2OT).
Like the Bard game, Clarkson this past weekend was a four act play in offensive ... effort.
If it goes as it has gone, Hobart may not score this weekend against Union OR RPI -- and may not let in a goal, either.
Am expecting 220 minutes of soccer.....

I think Ithaca is a team getting better and better this season and it puzzles me they lost to Clarkson (who may be able to snare the 6th LL tournament seed!).

Per the thread on SLU (past and present), my sense is that IF SLU is down a bit in talent (not for me to say, but IF), the play in LL is more a reflection of the rest of the league getting a bit more talent, being a bit better organized to stop other teams from scoring, and perhaps the stability of the top program's coaches (they know the other teams so well).  Or maybe it is just that I spend too much time watching RPI and Hobart?

Shout out to deutschfan's weekend update -- spot on for me.
Am thinking this is a big weekend as some of the upper-table teams play each other.
Looking forward to next Monday's update after this weekend's action.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 09, 2017, 05:31:37 pm
A shout out also to Mr. Dede who had two excellent goals in two games and unlike most of the members of his team showed some signs of urgency in the RIT OT periods.  Saint--I call them like I see them.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 09, 2017, 06:35:08 pm
Welcome Vassar fan.  Your 2012 team win against Tufts in the NCAAs was against a group that would go on to win 2 national championships. 

Yes, welcome to a friendly, spirited, and informative thread on a friendly, spirited, and informative site!  There we some real standouts during your era as a Brewer, with herculean Zander Mrlik at the top of the list, joined by netminder Ryan Grimme, free kick artist Juliano Pereira, and distributor (and current Vassar assistant) Ross Macklin.  The Mrlik 2.0 (or actually 3.0, counting former Brewer basketball/baseball player Johnny) era is a bit different stylistically than the Mrlik 1.0 era, but is having a similar level of success on the pitch.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 09, 2017, 11:17:01 pm
Hey guys I played at Vassar a few years back and just started following the league again last year. I just wanted to thank you all for your posts. Its great to get insight from people watching the games as I miss most of them and unfortunately the school write-ups don't really tell the full story.

Don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but in the case of Jansen, I don't think he was overrated at all. I battled against him for four years and thought he was a tough and skilled player that carried his team for most of his career. His individual accolades can be debated but I always thought his impact on the pitch spoke for itself. 

Quick question for the St. Lawrence bloggers. I played 09-12 and thought St. Lawrence had by far the most talented team in the league. Has the talent level dipped a bit on your squad since past years or was it just exceptionally good during those years? For reference, some of the guys on those teams were Brendan Gorman, Demello and Laird. I always thought Gorman was by far the best player in the league and it was really too bad he got hurt because that team would have been special.

Anyways thanks again for your posts. Really enjoy reading them and keeping up with the league

The 2011 and 2013 teams I think had the largest quantity of individual talent since the championship squad in '99.  The Durocher teams always had talented players but there were a lot of diamonds in the rough that Durocher recruited who fit the system perfectly.  Other guys have said this team haven't taken a dip in talent, and while I greatly respect their opinions I'm going to have to disagree as far as this year goes.  There are a few extremely talented players like Dede and Brandell, but collectively I think the talent level is a tad down this year.  Toshack is still finding his sea legs with the team so I expect the team to return to previous talent levels.  Right now there are just too many individual mistakes and lapses in concentration.   The issue with SLU soccer is that almost every year the best players get injured at the end of the season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 10, 2017, 12:22:52 pm
Omma's listing of some of Vassar's standouts and Saint's prediction during his playing days that Vassar would improve reminded me that one of the main reasons for Vassar's rise over the past decade is the staff's ability to recruit outside the Northeast Region, and in particular to recruit from California.  From Brian Bianchetti, Vassar's first POY, to Zander Mrlik Vassar's first DPOY and All American, to Tom Wiechert Vassar's first unanimous First Teamer, to Mattie Mrlik Vassar's first Rookie POY, to Alex Gonzalez last year's LL Tourney Finals hero, all were California raised.  Nano Pereira, who was one of the best mid-fielders in the league during his four years, should have received more recognition but unfortunately was in DeMello's shadow. 4 of the starters on the 2012 and 2016 teams were Californians.  SLU has grabbed a few California players that made an impact including the Buntons but nothing like Vassar's California crew.  While Skidmore wins the prize for ability to attract talented international players, none of those players have enjoyed a LL Championship or NCAA berth.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 12, 2017, 09:54:08 am
Omma's listing of some of Vassar's standouts and Saint's prediction during his playing days that Vassar would improve reminded me that one of the main reasons for Vassar's rise over the past decade is the staff's ability to recruit outside the Northeast Region, and in particular to recruit from California.  From Brian Bianchetti, Vassar's first POY, to Zander Mrlik Vassar's first DPOY and All American, to Tom Wiechert Vassar's first unanimous First Teamer, to Mattie Mrlik Vassar's first Rookie POY, to Alex Gonzalez last year's LL Tourney Finals hero, all were California raised.  Nano Pereira, who was one of the best mid-fielders in the league during his four years, should have received more recognition but unfortunately was in DeMello's shadow. 4 of the starters on the 2012 and 2016 teams were Californians.  SLU has grabbed a few California players that made an impact including the Buntons but nothing like Vassar's California crew.  While Skidmore wins the prize for ability to attract talented international players, none of those players have enjoyed a LL Championship or NCAA berth.   

Pereira was a maestro. That whole midfield 3 was fantastic together.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 12, 2017, 09:59:22 am
This is the BIG weekend in the LL starting tomorrow and Saturday....waiting for deutschfan's and Saint of Old's predictions but since I have seen RPI, Skidmore, SLU and Hobart at least 2 times I might give it a go later today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 12, 2017, 11:51:39 am
I am honored that Mr. Right invited my picks rspecially as they were so wrong last time. Invitation accepted. Biggest game of weekend SLU v Vassar. Vassar is the better team but will lose 2-1 because they will be severely tested on Friday by Clarkson while SLU was having shooting drills against Bard. Predictions: Friday-- Vassar 2-Clarkson 1; SLU 3-Bard 0; Skidmore 1-Ithaca 0; Hobart 1-Union 1; and RPI 1-RIT 1. Saturday--SLU 2-Vassar 1; Clarkson 2-Bard 1; Union 1-Ithaca 1; Skidmore 1-RIT 1; Hobart 1-RPI 0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 12, 2017, 01:12:59 pm
I am honored that Mr. Right invited my picks rspecially as they were so wrong last time. Invitation accepted. Biggest game of weekend SLU v Vassar. Vassar is the better team but will lose 2-1 because they will be severely tested on Friday by Clarkson while SLU was having shooting drills against Bard. Predictions: Friday-- Vassar 2-Clarkson 1; SLU 3-Bard 0; Skidmore 1-Ithaca 0; Hobart 1-Union 1; and RPI 1-RIT 1. Saturday--SLU 2-Vassar 1; Clarkson 2-Bard 1; Union 1-Ithaca 1; Skidmore 1-RIT 1; Hobart 1-RPI 0.


Ok...deutschfan must be a little busy today. I will make some pics and try to give a sentence or 2 explanation of why I am picking. Since I have only seen half the teams I will try my best and only pick Friday's games. The Liberty League teams I have seen this year give me the impression that like Nescac the league is down a bit. That does not mean the Champion could not make a run in the NCAA's as the champion will get a somewhat decent draw most likely on the road. No LL team has a good enough record to host in the NCAA's IMO. Unless Skidmore runs the table and wins a couple tournament games which by the way is possible looking at their schedule to finish the season. They do have a very tough match up at SLU next weekend that could decide the #1 seed.

Friday:

Clarkson at Vassar---I would guess history would tell me this has been a one sided affair tilting towards Vassar. Former Vassar assistant is doing a fine job rebuilding Clarkson. He was an interesting hire for Clarkson as he had no Head Coaching experience and was quite young. He is British I believe so the accent might have helped in the interview as did his experience in the LL. Anyway he has done a fine job and I watched Clarkson last year against someone and they were not just whacking the ball as they were trying to play a bit. Clarkson sit tied with RIT for that last playoff spot and #6 seed. I forget if the LL does positioning off of points like Nescac or winning %..A draw for Clarkson in this game should be the goal. Vassar is fighting for 1 of those coveted 2 Top spots to earn the bye and get directly into the LL Semi-Finals. They have the points and more importantly the games in hand. This is a huge weekend for them as if they sweep Clarkson and SLU on Saturday they should be able to punch their ticket to the Semi's...Vassar 2-1

SLU at Bard----No clue how good or bad Bard is. Looking at their results they have been in most games losing a ton of 1 goal games. I am guessing in the LL they have been out shot by a wide margin. The last 2 years it has taken OT for SLU to win both games v Bard. Bard also has a very young gun coach after the sudden passing of Andy McCabe who did all of Saward's recruiting at Middlebury. Brandon Jackson played at Middlebury when they won the 2007 NCAA Championship. He was a solid player if I remember correctly and was a hard worker. Excellent to see a young American coach get this job. It must be VERY tough to recruit to Bard so he has his hands full...I do not think it takes OT this year. SLU 3-1

RIT at RPI----RPI is 7-3-1 and their 3 losses were all by 1 goal to SLU, Oneonta and Williams. They will hang around in games and try to steal them on the counter against better teams. I was not overly impressed with this years squad as going forward they really struggle. Adam Clinton always has them working hard and playing scrappy. What has happened to RIT? Maybe about 7-10 years ago their slide started. They used to be a very tough team to play and would get some talent in the soccer rich area of Rochester. They always played teams tough and would get results and I beieve went to the NCAA's a couple times at the turn of the century. I have not seen them play in years but maybe someone could explain to me the downfall?  Both teams have a ton to play for as neither team is comfortable in the standings yet. 1-1

Hobart at Union----I have said my piece about Shawn Griffin and Hobart a couple weeks ago on this thread BUT they have not lost a game since opening weekend when they got swept at their own 2 game opening weekend tournament. The problem is they only have 4 wins. They are 4-2-4 and have maybe the toughest remaining schedule in the conference. Them and SLU easily have the 2 toughest SOS in the league. Hobart should be much more physical than Union but Union does have a couple skilled players. I cannot imagine Guinn sitting in against Hobart like he did at SLU although he was rewarded with a draw, their only point in the league. Union has to start winning league games or they will be eliminated from the playoffs. They do have an easier schedule to finish the season so maybe Guinn plays for another draw and tries to beat Bard, Clarkson, RIT and Ithaca. Hobart 2-0

Ithaca at Skidmore---Skidmore has a ton to play for. If they were to win out they could get a Pool C as I believe they will be regionally ranked maybe #6 or #7 in the first rankings. More importantly they are playing for one of those Top 2 seeds and the Bye into the Semi's. I have not seen Ithaca play but Head Coach Kyle Dezotell, another Midd graduate and pretty good player was Head Coach at Norwich University for years. I assumed he would have been next in line to take over for Saward at Midd but apparently NOT. They have a ton of losses and then this 5-0 trashing of Bard...Is that a 1 off? or are Ithaca improving as the season moves along. I think Skidmore takes them lightly and they get upset...Ithaca 1-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 12, 2017, 08:42:15 pm
Clarkson at Vassar-
3-0 Vassar.
Biggest problem for Coach Taylor was having Jennings know he could beat him early in his Clarkson career. Wont happen again.

SLU at Bard-
2-1 SLU
Will be a tight game unless SLU scores early.

RIT at RPI- (Battle of the Alphabets)
2-0 RIT
This is where I pick my upset, RPI needs these three points real bad, but so does RIT.

Hobart at Union

0-0
Hobart has trouble scoring and Union will be tough at home.

Ithaca at Skidmore-
1-0 Skidmore

I would pick Ithaca at home, but they are a different team on the road.

We are all soccer Soothsayers...
Teams must beware of Friday the 13th.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 12, 2017, 10:18:57 pm
+k Saint...good work
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 13, 2017, 09:50:03 am
Clarkson at Vassar-
3-0 Vassar.
Biggest problem for Coach Taylor was having Jennings know he could beat him early in his Clarkson career. Wont happen again.

SLU at Bard-
2-1 SLU
Will be a tight game unless SLU scores early.

RIT at RPI- (Battle of the Alphabets)
2-0 RIT
This is where I pick my upset, RPI needs these three points real bad, but so does RIT.

Hobart at Union

0-0
Hobart has trouble scoring and Union will be tough at home.

Ithaca at Skidmore-
1-0 Skidmore

I would pick Ithaca at home, but they are a different team on the road.

We are all soccer Soothsayers...
Teams must beware of Friday the 13th.

I don't see RIT scoring at RPI, and wonder if RPI can score v. RIT.
Am thinking RPI talent difference and ball pressure leads to 1:0 for the home team.

On Hobart, with my head, I'm with Saint of Old -- 0:0.
With my heart, I'm with Mr. Right -- 2:0.
With my use of data, I'm thinking Union wins -- 1:0.
Over the past three seasons, Union and Hobart have scored 1 goal each (in different years) against each other.
This year Hobart has taken 174 shots  to get 11 goals.  Opponents have taken 94 shots to get 8 goals.
If I am the Union coach, I am not so worried about the lethality of Hobart's attack and would be willing to push more people forward.
Hobart gives up most of its goals against on counters (they have swapped out wing defenders and their goalies almost every other game, and sometimes at half time during games, when this happens).  In 2013, Union beat Hobart 5:0 -- all off strong counter attacks (it was not fun to watch, though the joy of Union's players and fans was ... almost ... contagious).

 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Shooter McGavin on October 13, 2017, 01:27:51 pm
I'd like to take a crack at this if that's okay?

Vassar 1-0 Clarkson
SLU 3-1 over Bard
RIT 1-1 draw RPI
Hobart 2-1 over Union
Skidmore 2-0 over Ithaca
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 13, 2017, 02:18:49 pm
All predictions are welcome Shooter.  Someone will have bragging rights.  So far I am the only one to stick their neck out on Saturdays contests, even though not in as fulsome a fashion as I have done in the past.  Thanks for everyone's detailed analyses on the Friday contests.  How about your take on Hobart-RPI and Vassar-SLU on Saturday?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 13, 2017, 04:56:09 pm
Well here it is Halftime in all these games and I cannot decide which one to watch...I have Skidmore v Ithaca on right now...Just got home from work so i will have to decide which game to watch...At the Half we have Ithaca leading Skidmore 1-0, RIT up 2-0 at RPI and out shooting them 8-1 1st Half, SLU up 2-0 at Bard, Vassar and Clarkson must be stuck in the mud at 0-0 and Hobart at Union is 1-1...Lot's of goals which is good to see...I will keep the Skidmore game on to see if they can come back an win and to see what Ithaca has got. Intrigued to check out Hobart at Union though and Vassar v Clarkson....If Clarkson can hold that would be a fantastic result for them and with RIT winning and Skidmore losing things are playing out for SLU on this Friday the 13th.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 13, 2017, 05:22:46 pm
And Okoye comes up huge for Skidmore with a sweet header off a cross after a corner got cleared out...The kid is a pure goalscorer which is something a ton of teams just do not have. Again he is cagey as he will lull you to sleep and then Boom out of nowhere there he is...I must say Ithaca defending was pretty poor on the play...1-1 28 minutes left.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 13, 2017, 06:04:34 pm
Skidmore knocking it around pretty well on their carpet but cannot get a good look on goal here in OT...I do sniff a game winner though
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 13, 2017, 06:14:04 pm
Saint gets the award for his upset call.  Made my paper tiger description of RPI look good. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 13, 2017, 06:23:35 pm
Lucky guess :)

I just thought RIT's season came down to that game, RPI's did not.
Still feel like RPI will get in, but it looks like 6 teams fighting for 4 spots.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 13, 2017, 06:24:30 pm
WOW..Ithaca almost wins it off a long throw that was cleared off the line by a Skidmore defender...1-1 Final
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 14, 2017, 09:06:57 am
Congrats to SLU, RIT and Hobart for their road wins. 
Home teams went 1-3-1 on Friday.

Ithaca continues to impress, as does Skidmore's ability to find a way to score late.

A no-reason-to-believe-me set of picks for 10/14 games:
RIT 1: 0 Skidmore (RIT on a rush, Skidmore's late game heroics fail them today).
SLU 2: 1 Vassar (My least confident pick, could see this go the other way and tie and not be surprised).
Clarkson 0:1 Bard (Bard finds a way)
Ithaca 1:0 Union (Ithaca rising, Union flat)
Hobart 1:0 RPI (How does RPI respond after laying an egg on Friday?)

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 14, 2017, 02:08:08 pm
Nightmare start for SLU against Vassar.  Yet again their inability to defend corners bites them early.  Inexcusable when there are two players over 6'3" in the back line.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2017, 02:19:21 pm
Brewers dominating. Player who got assist on the goal by heading off cross bar is 5'7".
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 14, 2017, 03:47:24 pm
SLU centerbacks cost them yet another game.  Did well to equalize with 10 minutes left and another whiff directly in front of the goal mouth loses them the game.  That's 3 times this year.  This team just does not have it.   

Vassar are clearly the best team in the league.  They didn't have a tough out of conference schedule so I wasn't sure about them but they were dominant today and I think they can win an NCAA tourney game or 2.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 14, 2017, 08:11:29 pm
Skidmore ANOTHER draw and they are 5-1-6(1-0-5). I have never seen anything like that..A 1-0-5 record in league...hmm they will be playing one of those quarterfinal games. Vassar a huge win today 2-1 over SLU. They will host Hobart for the title next weekend. If Hobart can beat Vassar and SLU they will win the league...2 huge wins for Hobart at Union and RPI this weekend. I think Hobart is the only school with a shot for a Pool C. A long shot but a shot. They control their own destiny IMO as they will have a strong SOS and finish with Vassar,SLU and Cortland. Win those 3 plus Utica and they finish 10-2-4 with a .590-.595 SOS..Knowing Hobart they would beat Cortland and lay an egg v Utica so the whole situation is up in the air. Still a nice weekend for the Bart as they are looking for 1 of those Top 2 spots. At the bottom is another fight for the final 2 spots with RPI, Clarkson, RIT and Ithaca fighting for 2 spots. The good thing is they all still play each other at least once. My guess is Ithaca and RIT grab those spots. Ithaca was better than i thought when I saw them at Skidmore on Friday. RPI just does not get me out of my chair and i think they miss out
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2017, 08:46:37 pm
Notes on a scorecard after a wild weekend that leaves 3 teams undefeated in league after 2/3 of the season, with one of those teams in danger of not making the top 6, and it appears like it will be a repeat of last year’s top two teams—in order of standings: 1) Vassar coaching staff deserves kudos for two influential decisions, turning freshman defender Jose Novas into one of the top finishers in the league, and swapping goalies after huge error against Skidmore putting Marcelino in position to come up big against SLU; 2) Hobart—if offense gets in gear still has a chance to get top spot in league especially as Vassar has not shown on the road; 3) SLU—makes case against recruiting size over skill as 5’7” Novas ruins their hopes of winning league or getting a Pool C although the silver lining is both Vassar goals were easily preventable while Dede’s run was inspirational; 4) Skidmore—Santos finally shows signs of life during the league season as Okoye continues to make case for POY, and team is in danger of becoming first undefeated LL team not to make the playoffs; 5) RIT—A star is born in senior and former USSDA player Dean Kouroupas who breaks out with 3 goals including two beauts against RPI, and RIT establishes itself as a team no one will want to draw in the playoffs; 6) RPI--The Tigers demonstrate RPI to be the tigre de papier they are and even Coach Clinton won’t be able save their regional ranking after Hobart drives in the last minute stake; 7) Ithaca—Great weekend for Bombers as they almost steal a win from Skidmore on the road and then explode in first half against Union; 8) Clarkson—While I greatly admire Coach Taylor this group is not going to get it done as team’s inability to push Vassar allowed Brewers to sub liberally in anticipation of SLU game; 9) Union—Lopez Jr. shows glimpses of his talent as striker while defense takes the weekend off, and Union attempts to be first LL team to go undefeated out of conference and winless in conference; and 10) Bard—Bright sides in two home loss weekend are that they held each opponent under 20 shots, they have the same league record as a team that is undefeated out of conference, and they can claim an assist in the Vassar win by wearing out SLU, which could have been one reason for SLU’s somnambulic first half performance in Poughkeepsie.  BTW, congrats Mr. Right on your Colby pick and excellent assessment of upcoming LL outcomes.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 14, 2017, 08:50:09 pm
I meant Hamilton pick but you have been saying Amherst is vulnerable all year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 14, 2017, 09:19:26 pm
Haha thanks..you got the most enjoyable weekend recaps in the business...+k...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 15, 2017, 06:33:42 pm
Totally agree with all points made.
Hobart seems to be rounding the corner and Vassar did the LL proud by holding Oneonta at home.
I think this year will be the most unpredictable in the last 10 years of the LL.
This is even moreso with the addition of two playoff teams.

Here is how I see it wrapping up:

6. Union gets in this year. First they hardly ever finish below this position and the program really needs a post season run.
5. RPI will get in. Since when do they not and Coach Clinton has them playing hard as usual.
4. Skidmore.Just a feeling about them dropping a couple games they should not.
3. SLU. Will have to win atleast a game on the road to get a
2. Hobart. Unfortunately for everyone else , I think Hobart have already experienced their early season slump and will be a favorite to add a tournament crown to last yeas league title.
1. Defending Champs will be tough to beat, but I still don't see them repeating unless they have home field throughout.
@ this point I am still sticking with predictions
There goes my prediction for the #6 seed in the tournament.
I just thought they would make it in given Clarkson's recent history and Ithaca having to adjust to the league.

As of now, Ithaca takes their place in my book.
This is a dangerous team that has a big future in the league.

This past wknd cleared up a lot of questions.
Hobart really waited till late to get their clincher but deserved their result.

Vassar and SLU might meet again.
Union is planning for 2018.
Bard making similar plans.
Clarkson is one loss away from joining them while the rest fight for the last three seeds as Brewersc,Statesmen and Saints have the first three locked up.
What a league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 17, 2017, 05:31:08 pm
Hobart and Cortland 0-0 midway thru the 2nd Half...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 17, 2017, 05:45:55 pm
Hobart v Cortland seems like a really even game in the 15 minutes of the 2nd Half that I have seen. 10 minutes left 0-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 17, 2017, 05:50:49 pm
Cortland with a GOLDEN opportunity as their quick striker got in on goal 1v1 with the GK after beating 2 Hobart defenders. Hobart GK gets BIG and stuffs him...0-0 6 minutes left
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 17, 2017, 06:19:52 pm
Cortland wins it it OT. A silly foul by Hobart about 35 yards out led to a set piece by Cortland's #12. He hit a nice shot on target from that distance but it was a ball that should have been caught by Hobart's GK. Hobart's GK misjudged it completely and over ran it a step and instead of catching the ball he decides to punch it and punches the ball right into the roof of the net. Horrific GK'ing error as he cost his team the game today. Seemed like a very even game but good teams win those games and average teams find a way to lose them. Cortland has some skill and speed but does not look like a very big physical team. They are a NCAA team for sure but I do not know how far they will go. Sweet 16 likely..You never know..Very tough loss for the Bart as the LL will only get the AQ this year. That being said Hobart looks like a team that could win the LL if the chips fall their way. You could say that about any of the 6 teams that qualify as it will be a wide open tournament.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 18, 2017, 02:39:04 pm
1,2 and 3 are already decided in the LL.
We just don't know in what order.
The Vassar v. Hobart game might just be the decider for the league champion, the loser has to look over their shoulder for St. Lawrence.

None of these three teams want to have to win three post season games in order to dance, so I see a battle till the last game.

As for the rest of the league.
Union done
Bard Done
there are three spots left:
Skidmore
Clarkson
RIT
RPI
Ithaca
Only 3 of 5 will make it to post season play and will have to travel once there in order to win the league.

Right now Ithaca is playing the best ball, but had the worst start of all these teams.
RIT is catching fire as well and will likely get in.
Of Clarkson, Skidmore and RPI I would have to say Skidmore has the best shot at getting in with a game in hand and a more talented squad.

We should know who is going to the post season after match day 8.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 18, 2017, 09:16:55 pm
All of a sudden Skidmore's season is on the brink here as they drop a 3-2 decision to Clarkson at Home. They head up to Canton,NY on the weekend and finish with Bard. LL just got a little more interesting for those final 3 spots


Skidmore is in a slump as they are 1-2-5 in their last 8 games. Have won 1 game (Elmira) since Sept 19th.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 19, 2017, 12:35:37 pm
Don't understand Skidmore at all. They have the best offensive player in the league, a used to be solid and athletic defense, and at times showed well against teams like Williams. Santos' disappearance in league in his senior year is one factor but this can't be put on one player. Okoye is the rebirth of Adam Beek, likely AA and yet never will have played in an NCAA game. This is a team that but for two silly penalties would have won the LL championship last year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 19, 2017, 03:25:58 pm
Don't understand Skidmore at all. They have the best offensive player in the league, a used to be solid and athletic defense, and at times showed well against teams like Williams. Santos' disappearance in league in his senior year is one factor but this can't be put on one player. Okoye is the rebirth of Adam Beek, likely AA and yet never will have played in an NCAA game. This is a team that but for two silly penalties would have won the LL championship last year.

I think Santos has had some injury issues this year, unfortunately. I kind of view this season as the end of a window of opportunity for the Thoroughbreds. It is just three short years ago that Skidmore had a roster that included Beek, Bakewell, Oyeniyi, Okoye, and Santos. Next year the program is sure to be in a rebuilding mode.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: diesel on October 20, 2017, 02:10:10 pm
Huge weekend with major playoff implications. Skidmore with a huge road game at SLU, both teams with a lot to play for. SLU still in the chase for a #1/#2 seed, Skidmore playing for their postseason. Another game to watch is RPI and Ithaca, both teams fighting for one of those final three playoff spots. Ithaca on a bit of a kick with their recent results- look for them to be all over an RPI that looks like it is losing its grip. Clarkson can likely wrap up a postseason spot with a win against a Union team that hasn't won a single LL game yet. RIT can advance their cause with a game against Bard. And finally Vassar at Hobart in a match that could decide a lot for playoff positioning. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 20, 2017, 08:53:02 pm
For Saturday:

RPI at Ithaca----From what I have seen of Ithaca which isn't much but enough to make a solid guess and from what I have read on here they play well at Home. RPI is coming off back to back Home losses this past weekend. I am guessing Adam Clinton gave them Monday off and then put them through a late season ringer on Tuesday as I am sure he was not happy. While I have been critical of them this season and they are short of talent this year I think they get rewarded in this game for busting their butt. Somehow they find a goal...1-0 RPI

Bard at RIT---RIT is 2-0-2 in their last 4 games. They seem to have found something. Bard did beat RIT last season 2-0 but they were a different team last year as they have regressed a bit this season. In 6 conference games they have 15 SOG..That is 2.5 SOG a game...Ahh that is not good. RIT has tons to play for and they need 3 pts in this game..RIT 2-0

Union at Clarkson---Clarkson with a huge mid-week win at Skidmore. Union has nothing to play for except pride. Union does have enough talent to be able to compete in this league IMO..They spotted Ithaca 4 last weekend but I cannot believe Clarkson will get 4 on them in this game. I have a hunch Clarkson takes Union a bit to lightly even if they have tons to play for and their coach getting them fired up. Teams with nothing to play for sometimes love rolling into town and making their opponents season as miserable as their own or more kindly it is known as playing spoiler.  Union 2-1

Vassar at Hobart-----Of all the games from all the regions I watched on Wednesday the game that is sticking in my head for some reason is the Cortland at Hobart match. I think because I might have witnessed the worst GK mistake I have seen all year. Hobart's GK absolutely cost them that game. Hobart ended up being regionally ranked and a win over Cortland would have only moved them up. They did come off a very impressive weekend last weekend getting 2 road wins in the league. The problem is they are 2-3-2 at Home and 4-0-2 on the road. This game I think will be tight and very likely for the #1 overall seed in the league. More important though is getting one of those 1st round byes that comes with finishing 1st and 2nd in the league. Both teams realize this and the game is played very cautiously by both sides. 1-1

Skidmore at SLU---I totally agree with Ommadawn that Skidmore's window is closing fast. Their best teams are behind them now and what could have been in 2013 and 2014. Something is missing with this team. As we all know the talent is there but is the fight? They do have Bard to finish the season so this is not a must win but a point would be nice. Before the Vassar match SLU seemed to have turned a corner going 4-0-2 in their last 6 but Vassar beat them. These two teams have to be the hardest to predict in the league as does anyone know what we will get tomorrow with either of these teams? Why do I have a hunch SLU scores early and look to be in control but concede late and we get a .......1-1

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 21, 2017, 11:21:05 am
They've taken away our weekend private jet privileges at GE so I have time to watch some games and make my predictions, which have historically been way off: Ithaca v. RPI--I agree with Mr. Right that Coach Clinton will do everything he can to motivate his team, but the boys looked so despondent at the end of Saturday's game and the Bombers will be riding a 4 goal high--Ithaca 2, RPI 1; SLU v. Skidmore--Is either of these teams a quality team, and, if so, will it stand up in this game? Vassar has gotten results against SLU in the past, but never made them look bad as they did last Saturday.  Same with regard to Clarkson's mid-week win against Skidmore.  Saints are at home and are rested--Okoye 1, Dede 2; Vassar v. Hobart--this one as they say is for at least a lot of the marbles.  Hobart has not enjoyed a home field advantage this year but historically Vassar has not played well at Hobart.  Vassar has more offensive weapons and Hobart has the stronger defense albeit both teams have been saddled with tremendous goalie mistakes.  Defense wins championships--Hobart 1, Vassar 0; RIT v. Bard--Bard's tie against Hobart is one of the most inexplicable results of the season.  There are no more points for Bard this year and RIT is on a roll--RIT 2, Bard 0; Union v. Clarkson--Am loath to disagree with Mr. Right's analysis but have come to a different conclusion.  Clarkson is looking for a playoff spot and will be motivated while Union's highly touted freshmen spent their week preparing college transfer applications--Clarkson 1, Union 0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2017, 11:50:15 am
For Saturday:

RPI at Ithaca----From what I have seen of Ithaca which isn't much but enough to make a solid guess and from what I have read on here they play well at Home. RPI is coming off back to back Home losses this past weekend. I am guessing Adam Clinton gave them Monday off and then put them through a late season ringer on Tuesday as I am sure he was not happy. While I have been critical of them this season and they are short of talent this year I think they get rewarded in this game for busting their butt. Somehow they find a goal...1-0 RPI

Bard at RIT---RIT is 2-0-2 in their last 4 games. They seem to have found something. Bard did beat RIT last season 2-0 but they were a different team last year as they have regressed a bit this season. In 6 conference games they have 15 SOG..That is 2.5 SOG a game...Ahh that is not good. RIT has tons to play for and they need 3 pts in this game..RIT 2-0

Union at Clarkson---Clarkson with a huge mid-week win at Skidmore. Union has nothing to play for except pride. Union does have enough talent to be able to compete in this league IMO..They spotted Ithaca 4 last weekend but I cannot believe Clarkson will get 4 on them in this game. I have a hunch Clarkson takes Union a bit to lightly even if they have tons to play for and their coach getting them fired up. Teams with nothing to play for sometimes love rolling into town and making their opponents season as miserable as their own or more kindly it is known as playing spoiler.  Union 2-1

Vassar at Hobart-----Of all the games from all the regions I watched on Wednesday the game that is sticking in my head for some reason is the Cortland at Hobart match. I think because I might have witnessed the worst GK mistake I have seen all year. Hobart's GK absolutely cost them that game. Hobart ended up being regionally ranked and a win over Cortland would have only moved them up. They did come off a very impressive weekend last weekend getting 2 road wins in the league. The problem is they are 2-3-2 at Home and 4-0-2 on the road. This game I think will be tight and very likely for the #1 overall seed in the league. More important though is getting one of those 1st round byes that comes with finishing 1st and 2nd in the league. Both teams realize this and the game is played very cautiously by both sides. 1-1

Skidmore at SLU---I totally agree with Ommadawn that Skidmore's window is closing fast. Their best teams are behind them now and what could have been in 2013 and 2014. Something is missing with this team. As we all know the talent is there but is the fight? They do have Bard to finish the season so this is not a must win but a point would be nice. Before the Vassar match SLU seemed to have turned a corner going 4-0-2 in their last 6 but Vassar beat them. These two teams have to be the hardest to predict in the league as does anyone know what we will get tomorrow with either of these teams? Why do I have a hunch SLU scores early and look to be in control but concede late and we get a .......1-1
RPI @ Ithaca could  be a loser go home game.
Ithaca 2-0

Bard @RIT:
In m opinion, here is the most interesting game of the weekend.
Bard could knock our RIT, but Tigers have too much to play for
RIT 2-1.

Union at Clarkson:

Like Mr. R said, Union playing for pride.
I think they hammer Clarkson 3-0.

Vassar at Hobart:

Hobart 2-1.
This blows the league wide open.

Skidmore at SLU:

SLU knows it is playing for home field.
Skidmore knows that a loss knocks them out of playoff picture.
2-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 21, 2017, 12:44:08 pm
Saint--you are such a tease.  2-0 for which side in the SLU--Skidmore game, or are you just picking the score without picking the team that wins the game? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 21, 2017, 01:06:29 pm
So sorry.
I hit send a bit too soon.
Now that I have had time to think about it, I am even more torn about this pick than I was.

These are two desperate teams, who could have a big confidence boost with a win.

I think the home team gets the edge.

2-0 SLU.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 04:15:17 pm
RPI guts out a 2-1 victory over Ithaca...RIT slams Bard...Vassar and Bard 1-1 early 2nd Half and Clarkson and Union 0-0 early 2nd Half...SLU up on Skidmore 1-0 early 2nd Half...

These results do not bode well for Skidmore....Right now they are on the outside looking in and even a last match at Bard might not be enough...They need to fight for a draw up at SLU...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 04:42:52 pm
SLU stream having technical difficulties but they look to be in control over Skidmore with about 10 minutes left it is still 1-0 SLU..

Hobart and Vassar knotted up at 1-1 late in the 2nd Half...Nice stream for the Bart..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 04:58:17 pm
Hobart wins it 2-1 over Vassar in the 89th minute....#26 with a fine shot BUT I have no clue what the Vassar GK was doing on that play...He was caught in no man's land...Huge win for Hobart that sets up what looks to be a winner take all match at SLU next weekend. I believe Hobart can get a Draw and win the league..They will most likely be sitting deep and compact in Canton...BIG W
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 21, 2017, 04:59:24 pm
Late magic for Hobart.  Really nice goal with 40 seconds left to knock off Vassar.  SLU had a very comfortable win against Skidmore.  Skid only really had one decent chance.  Impressive performance by the SLU back line. 

Sets up for a huge match up next weekend between SLU and Hobart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 05:06:57 pm
Yea in what I saw Skidmore had nothing dangerous at all the whole 2nd half...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 05:08:52 pm
Clarkson and Union heading to OT...Skidmore better hope Union can hold for 20 minutes.


Another issue for Skidmore and frankly Clarkson is that RPI, RIT and Ithaca all have a game in hand on them.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 05:35:10 pm
union knocking on the door in the 108th minute at Clarkson and almost won the game off a long throw and then a corner. This looks to be ending in a 0-0 stalemate. Clarkson really needed a victory in this match.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 21, 2017, 06:53:27 pm
While this was unthinkable at the outset of league, Skidmore is pretty much done.  They have one game left and a maximum of 11 points.  Clarkson sits with 11 and holds the head to head tiebreaker against Skidmore.  Assuming Ithaca does not reach 12 points, Skidmore needs either RIT to go 0-2 against Ithaca and Union, or RPI to go 0-2 against Vassar and Clarkson.  Clarkson is in unless Ithaca passes them in points which is unlikely given the strength of Ithaca's last two opponents.  Congrats to Coach Taylor.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 21, 2017, 07:06:09 pm
While this was unthinkable at the outset of league, Skidmore is pretty much done.  They have one game left and a maximum of 11 points.  Clarkson sits with 11 and holds the head to head tiebreaker against Skidmore.  Assuming Ithaca does not reach 12 points, Skidmore needs either RIT to go 0-2 against Ithaca and Union, or RPI to go 0-2 against Vassar and Clarkson.  Clarkson is in unless Ithaca passes them in points which is unlikely given the strength of Ithaca's last two opponents.  Congrats to Coach Taylor.   

What are the tiebreakers for the Liberty League?  It is very possible that a 3-way tie happens
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 21, 2017, 07:38:32 pm
First tiebreaker is head to head.  Second is best record v. 1st place league finisher then 2nd place league finisher etc.  If you have three teams vying for one spot and each team split a game against the others get out a calculator.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 23, 2017, 10:17:51 am
What a wild and crazy season.  For the third week in a row the number 1 and number 2 teams in the league will be fighting it out while there is a high probability that the two teams that were undefeated when they played their first league game will not make the expanded playoffs.  Here are notes on a scorecard by order of LL standing: 1) Hobart—Senior forward Patrick Schultz who has 4 game winners in 5 career goals decides that Hobart doesn’t need another OT game, and, voila, a last minute run down the sidelines and goal to put the Statesmen in first place, at least for this week;  2) SLU—Am glad my earlier posts have motivated Mr. Dede who is now challenging Okoye for POY honors with his game winner against Skidmore; 3) Vassar—The nightmare that was Ocel’s last minute goal that knocked them out of the 2012 NCAA tourney is repeated by Hobart but at least Vassar controls its fate to become regular season champion; 4) RIT—Six goals from six players during target practice against Bard is indicative that the Tigers are gearing up for a deep playoff run; 5) Clarkson—Tie against Union with tie-breaker edge against Skidmore has Coach Taylor’s crew thinking first LL playoff berth ever; 6) RPI—But for Confair goal in OT Engineers would have been another historical LL stalwart that was in serious danger of missing the playoffs, although they still could; 7) Skidmore—Will the LL powers that be award POY to a player from a team that isn’t in the top six, we soon may be seeing the answer to that question as Skidmore has lost definitely lost its mojo; 8) Ithaca—OT loss to RPI was a crusher in first season in a game that was very even but has Ithaca needing to win two road games against difficult teams to potentially make the playoffs; 9) Union—If there was any doubt about the lack of value in scheduling patsies, that doubt has been put to rest this season as Union still strives to become the first LL team to be undefeated in non-league contests and winless in league; and 10)  Bard—Point gained against Hobart is having a huge impact on the LL race but Shenberger’s stellar career deserved a better ending. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on October 23, 2017, 10:56:36 am
Johnny come lately to this board, but looking forward to Statesman in a crucial LL game this Saturday. We have new stands in place with a "press box" just for soccer now....just in time .....hope we need to use it after this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 23, 2017, 02:42:41 pm
Hobart v. SLU has always been a classic UCAA/Liberty League clash.
Some big battles in the past, and it will be again this weekend.

I have to say that I am very proud of this SLU team, would have been very easy to quit on the season, but these boys are built on sturdier stuff.

Same can be said of Hobart.

Both teams had bad starts and rebounded quite well and are now competing for league supremacy as we enter the final weekend.

The more interesting race in m y view is that #6 seed.
Who will get in?

Clarkson looks good, but I think RIT and Ithaca are also in the hunt and wont go away until the last game.

Tough for Skidmore, I had a feeling they would take a step back, but did not think they would miss the tournament.

It gets even worse looking forward as the entire league will be competing next season and it will be hard on Skidmore next season as well without their best current player.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 24, 2017, 10:00:02 am
Going to be tough for one of Hobart, Vassar, or SLU to end up in 3rd and stuck with a play in game after such solid LL performances.  Given the competitiveness of the league, I don't think the 3 seed wants to mess with the 6 seed (whoever that ends up being).  Going to guess that Hobart tops SLU and Vassar tops Bard, leaving SLU in 3rd with a home playoff game, with the winner earning a trip down to Poughkeepsie for the semi's.

What a crazy year.  With this many teams in with a real chance, whoever has home field advantage is going to win it all.

Would love to see the playoffs back at SLU, but don't see it happening. With that said, SLU does have the ability to go down to Cozzens and get a result. Prove me wrong, fellas!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 11:56:45 am
Quick Hit Predictions for Wednesday:

Ithaca at RIT---Still have only seen these teams for a Half each all year so it is tough to call. RIT has not lost a game in a month and have not lost at Home since losing to Vassar 2-1 on 9/23. Not only that they are scoring at an impressive clip against solid competition. They are 2-0-3 in their last 5 games all against LL foes and have scored at least 2 goals in each of those 5 games with a total of 15 goals(yes 6 against Bard but still). The senior Dean Kouroupas leads the team with 6 goals and he looked to have been possibly injured because he missed about 2 weeks in the middle of the season. Soph Simon Garno(guessing Coach's son) leads the team with 10 assists. This has to be RIT's best season since joining the league and best season in a while under longtime Head Coach Bill Garno. Still Ithaca is no slouch and they have struggled a bit recently I am sniffing an upset of sorts and predicting a draw...1-1

Vassar at RPI----Night game in Rensselaer. Big game as if Vassar wins it final 2 league games against RPI and Ithaca they will win the LL Regular Season. Still a draw will not kill them here as they would still have a possibility of winning it all if Hobart and SLU draw on Saturday. Adam Clinton got his charges pumped on Saturday and am guessing had them working their tails off to defeat Ithaca in OT. Vassar just has more talent as I do not see how RPI scores in this match.
2-0 Vassar

Union at Bard----The most meaningless league game of the year. Union showed well up at Clarkson on Saturday and had a real solid chance to win the game in the 108th minute but ultimately failed. Still a well played match especially with only pride on the line. Union lays an egg and Bard steals a victory.
2-1 Bard
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 24, 2017, 01:41:40 pm
Quick Hit Predictions for Wednesday:

 This has to be RIT's best season since joining the league and best season in a while under longtime Head Coach Bill Garno.

In RIT's inaugural season in the LL (2011), they actually made it to the LL Championship game, where Vassar prevailed 3-2.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 02:02:50 pm
Quick Hit Predictions for Wednesday:

 This has to be RIT's best season since joining the league and best season in a while under longtime Head Coach Bill Garno.

In RIT's inaugural season in the LL (2011), they actually made it to the LL Championship game, where Vassar prevailed 3-2.


Ahh did not realize that...I was thinking back when RIT was a force in Upstate NY and made the NCAA's a couple times in the mid 2000's
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 24, 2017, 02:17:38 pm
Quick Hit Predictions for Wednesday:

Ithaca at RIT---Still have only seen these teams for a Half each all year so it is tough to call. RIT has not lost a game in a month and have not lost at Home since losing to Vassar 2-1 on 9/23. Not only that they are scoring at an impressive clip against solid competition. They are 2-0-3 in their last 5 games all against LL foes and have scored at least 2 goals in each of those 5 games with a total of 15 goals(yes 6 against Bard but still). The senior Dean Kouroupas leads the team with 6 goals and he looked to have been possibly injured because he missed about 2 weeks in the middle of the season. Soph Simon Garno(guessing Coach's son) leads the team with 10 assists. This has to be RIT's best season since joining the league and best season in a while under longtime Head Coach Bill Garno. Still Ithaca is no slouch and they have struggled a bit recently I am sniffing an upset of sorts and predicting a draw...1-1

Vassar at RPI----Night game in Rensselaer. Big game as if Vassar wins it final 2 league games against RPI and Ithaca they will win the LL Regular Season. Still a draw will not kill them here as they would still have a possibility of winning it all if Hobart and SLU draw on Saturday. Adam Clinton got his charges pumped on Saturday and am guessing had them working their tails off to defeat Ithaca in OT. Vassar just has more talent as I do not see how RPI scores in this match.
2-0 Vassar

Union at Bard----The most meaningless league game of the year. Union showed well up at Clarkson on Saturday and had a real solid chance to win the game in the 108th minute but ultimately failed. Still a well played match especially with only pride on the line. Union lays an egg and Bard steals a victory.
2-1 Bard

I'm on board with Mr. Right's picks for RIT/Ithaca draw and Bard upset of Union.
If RIT were at Ithaca, I'd be picking the Bombers to win.  Ithaca is a good side and has rounded into form quite well as season has gone along.

Am aware that RPI is playing for its tournament life.  Vassar had trouble with Hobart's defense this past weekend (save for the 2' after Hobart scored and Vassar put one by their GK) and see RPI's defensive posture as more of the same. I'm thinking this a chippy tie or perhaps RPI gets some luck and finds a goal.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 24, 2017, 04:29:10 pm

Quick Hit Predictions for Wednesday:


 This has to be RIT's best season since joining the league and best season in a while under longtime Head Coach Bill Garno.


In RIT's inaugural season in the LL (2011), they actually made it to the LL Championship game, where Vassar prevailed 3-2.




Ahh did not realize that...I was thinking back when RIT was a force in Upstate NY and made the NCAA's a couple times in the mid 2000's


I was forgetting that RIT even made the NCAA tournament in the 2000's.  Looking it up, they made it in 2000, 2001 and 2004 and not since. Not sure how much of a force RIT was in those years (early 2000's). They were qualifying out of the Empire 8 before Stevens joined. They ahd good but not great records in 2000 and 2001, but barely over .500 in 2004.

RIT was a force in the early/mid 80's through the early/mid 90's when Doug May was coach.  Us older Messiah fans remember RIT as a power as the Falcon's second Final Four trip was to RIT in 1988.  RIT lost in the final that year to UC San Diego (who beat Messiah in the semifinals), a year after being knocked out at the quarterfinal stage by UNC-Greensboro and a year before losing in the semifinals to Greensboro at the Final Four hosted and won by E-town.  RIT also made the Final Four in 1984 and 1992.  Four Final Fours in nine years--not a bad stretch at all.  And who knows, if not for a couple of schools who would shortly thereafter move up to D-II and D-I, maybe they would have taken home a national title one of those years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 04:31:37 pm
Yes Doug May was a very good coach and well liked by his peers..I actually believe he recently passed but not sure on that
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 24, 2017, 05:01:02 pm
I've wondered why RIT, with almost 14,000 undergrads, does not challenge for the LL title every year . . .
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 24, 2017, 05:08:49 pm
Well I might have overstated that RIT was a force in the mid 2000's but they were a good side. Let us remember that the Empire 8 was no slouch during this time as Ithaca and Elmira were good squads and RIT always played a very challenging non-conference schedule if I remember correctly. You are correct that with 14000 undergrads they should be better
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 24, 2017, 05:52:36 pm
Well I might have overstated that RIT was a force in the mid 2000's but they were a good side. Let us remember that the Empire 8 was no slouch during this time as Ithaca and Elmira were good squads and RIT always played a very challenging non-conference schedule if I remember correctly. You are correct that with 14000 undergrads they should be better
After 2001, RIT struggled to stay above .500 in the 2000's, never again winning more than half their games.  They were up and down in the conference in the 2000's and usually poor out of conference, typically in the .300 to .500 range (you're correct that they played a challenging non-conference schedule that usually included St. Lawrence, Hobart, Hamilton, and Rochester). Elmira was pretty bad from 2002 to 2008 with nine or more losses each year.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 24, 2017, 08:10:32 pm
RIT v Ithaca is interesting as this is the best RIT team since 2011 but it is an absolute do or die game for Ithaca.  I go with RIT 1-0 as they have been very good in the month of October.  If Mr. Right is right, and he usually is, then unless Ithaca can stop Vassar in Poughkeepsie knowing full well that all hope is lost for a LL tourney berth, Vassar wins the LL regular season title with a win over RPI and either Hobart or SLU doesn't get the bye.  RPI has not beaten Vassar since 2014 which is motivational for the Engineers.  Vassar embarrassed them in the LL semis last year which is also motivational.  Vassar has not been a good road team this year although I agree that they are a better team than RPI either at home or on the road.  l am going to go with Mr. Right and choose skill over intangibles.  Vassar 1-0.  I also go with Bard over Union for purely selfish reasons, namely, I would like Union to schedule good non-conference opponents in the future and if they go winless in the LL I think that will be an incentive to do so.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on October 25, 2017, 10:06:50 am
I also go with Bard over Union for purely selfish reasons, namely, I would like Union to schedule good non-conference opponents in the future and if they go winless in the LL I think that will be an incentive to do so.

Coach Guinn's track record from a few years ago demonstrates that he is (or was) not afraid of scheduling strong non-conference opponents.  My son played for him from 2008-11 (where he was all-conference and team MVP in 2011), when the program was in a good stretch of very strong teams:  winning the LL in 2006, reaching the LL championship game in 2008 and 2009, going 5-1-1 in LL in 2010 before elimination on PKs in LL semis to RPI, consistently receiving a top 25 ranking at some point each year, averaging 12 wins per year, and annually having several all-conference representatives (including S. Jansen, All-American).  In those years, Union played an annual scrimmage against Oneonta, and scheduled annually several of Babson (while it dominated NEWMAC), Plattsburgh, RIT (before it joined LL), Geneseo (and one or two other SUNYAC teams such as New Paltz and Oswego), William Patterson or NJCU out of NJAC, RIC, and one or two Empire 8 teams.  Obviously, Union is not as strong since Jansen graduated in 2013, but, although I have no personal knowledge, I suspect something else is dictating the current weaker non-conference schedule.

That being said, I, too, hope that the program beefs up the non-conference schedule in the future, as playing cupcakes clearly is insufficient preparation for the LL.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 25, 2017, 12:09:23 pm
Hobart loses, 1:0, to Utica College in a midweek game. 
Huh?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 25, 2017, 12:15:46 pm
Probably pretty meaningless game as Hobart may already have been AQ or bust, but that head-scratching loss guarantees that.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 25, 2017, 12:48:02 pm
Head scratching is kind.  Utica does not have an E8 win this year while Hobart is undefeated in the LL and has the highest current regional ranking of any LL team.  This is a down year for the league and has been noted by others only the AQ will get through.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 25, 2017, 01:03:36 pm
Head scratching is kind.  Utica does not have an E8 win this year while Hobart is undefeated in the LL and has the highest current regional ranking of any LL team.  This is a down year for the league and has been noted by others only the AQ will get through.

Vassar was ahead of Hobart in last week's Regional Rankings.  With the head-to-head win, Hobart may have moved ahead of Vassar this week if not for the loss to Utica.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 25, 2017, 01:32:31 pm
UCSA rankings came out yesterday and Hobart had leap-frogged Vassar.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 25, 2017, 01:34:31 pm
I was referring to the crucial NCAA regional rankings that feed into the at-large selections.  I was, however, jumping the gun on the impact of the loss to Utica, as that, of course, will only be seen in next week's rankings.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2017, 02:00:36 pm
Big Big Games.


I have to go with Ithaca winning this one 1-0 over RIT.
Ithaca cannot afford to lose and RIT has some wiggle room.

As for Vassar and RPI.

Wow, this one is tough to pick.
I can make an argument for either team winning.
Vassar is coming off a deflating loss and RPI is coming off an inspiring win so I have to go with the hot team here and a 2-1 win for RPI.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on October 25, 2017, 05:22:48 pm
EAST REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - October 25, 2017

Rank

School
. Div. III .
Record
. Div. III .
SOS

 . R-v-R .
. Non-Conf. .
SOS
. Overall .
Record
. Prev. .
Rank
1.
Cortland State
15-2-0
0.585
4-1-0
0.570
15-2-0
2
2.
Oneonta State
12-1-2
0.593
2-1-2
0.596
12-1-2
1
3.
Buffalo State
13-1-3
0.562
3-0-1
0.511
13-1-3
3
4.
Rochester
9-2-2
0.582
2-2-1
0.536
9-2-2
4
5.
Hobart
7-3-4
0.582
1-2-1
0.616
7-3-4
8
6.
Stevens
9-5-2
0.588
1-4-0
0.630
9-5-2
7
7.
Brockport State
10-4-3
0.571
1-2-1
0.526
10-4-3
--
8.
Vassar
8-4-2
0.564
0-2-1
0.581
8-4-2
5
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 05:27:11 pm
Wow Hobart's win over Vassar was huge and that horrific GK'ing error by Hobart to lose to Cortland was also huge..A loss today v Utica places a nail in their Pool C hopes coffin...Jeez...A draw v Cortland and a win today v utica and they would have been looking quite decent
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 08:02:41 pm
RPI and Vassar scoreless about 10 minutes left until Halftime..



looks like RPI is going all in on facility upgrades..That might help recruiting in 5-10 years...

http://www.rpiathletics.com/news/2017/10/24/football-institute-launches-1-billion-capital-campaign.aspx

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 08:08:28 pm

This is quite impressive...SLU just total domination in LL..

MEN'S SOCCER
1995-96   St. Lawrence University
1996-97   St. Lawrence University
1997-98   St. Lawrence University
1998-99   St. Lawrence University
1999-00   St. Lawrence University (National Champions)
2000-01   Hamilton College
2001-02   St. Lawrence University
2002-03   St. Lawrence University
2003-04   St. Lawrence University
2004-05   Hamilton College
2005-06   St. Lawrence University
2006-07   St. Lawrence University
2007-08   Hamilton College
2008-09   St. Lawrence University
2009-10   Hobart College
2010-11   St. Lawrence University
2011-12   Vassar College
2012-13   Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
2013-14   St. Lawrence University
2014-15   St. Lawrence University
2015-16   St. Lawrence University
2016-17   Vassar College
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 08:25:41 pm
Scoreless first half between RPI and Vassar.  Looks like a pretty even game but not a whole lot of chances for either side.

And yea, it really puts into perspective SLU's success over the last 20 years when you put it all together in a list like that.  Program really wasn't that great before Durocher took over, just shows how phenomenal of a coach he was.  It also reminds me of a lot of what ifs with this program.  The 2008 squad was extremely solid but ran into the usual Amherst fixture in the NCAAs.  Same goes for 2010 and 2013 teams.  Just could never get over the hump.  Should have beat them in 2013.  Insane goal to tie it up in the last minute and then Brouk hit the post in overtime.   

Don't even get me going on the 2011 team.  Complete domination throughout the season and then the entire front 3 goes down with injuries.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2017, 08:32:21 pm

This is quite impressive...SLU just total domination in LL..

MEN'S SOCCER
1995-96   St. Lawrence University
1996-97   St. Lawrence University
1997-98   St. Lawrence University
1998-99   St. Lawrence University
1999-00   St. Lawrence University (National Champions)
2000-01   Hamilton College
2001-02   St. Lawrence University
2002-03   St. Lawrence University
2003-04   St. Lawrence University
2004-05   Hamilton College
2005-06   St. Lawrence University
2006-07   St. Lawrence University
2007-08   Hamilton College
2008-09   St. Lawrence University
2009-10   Hobart College
2010-11   St. Lawrence University
2011-12   Vassar College
2012-13   Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
2013-14   St. Lawrence University
2014-15   St. Lawrence University
2015-16   St. Lawrence University
2016-17   Vassar College

Killing me with this Mr. R.

I was part of that 2000 squad that failed to win the league.
Went 15-0-2 in regular season with scoreless ties to Skidmore and Vassar.
Hamilton won the league going 6-1.
Then we lost at home in dance to put an end to the 60 game unbeaten streak that began in '97.

Rough way to end the senior year, but still no regrets.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 08:34:12 pm
what years did you guys play again?

Saint of Old I know you played in 98 and 99 but what about you stlawus?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2017, 08:35:22 pm
Scoreless first half between RPI and Vassar.  Looks like a pretty even game but not a whole lot of chances for either side.

And yea, it really puts into perspective SLU's success over the last 20 years when you put it all together in a list like that.  Program really wasn't that great before Durocher took over, just shows how phenomenal of a coach he was.  It also reminds me of a lot of what ifs with this program.  The 2008 squad was extremely solid but ran into the usual Amherst fixture in the NCAAs.  Same goes for 2010 and 2013 teams.  Just could never get over the hump.  Should have beat them in 2013.  Insane goal to tie it up in the last minute and then Brouk hit the post in overtime.   

Don't even get me going on the 2011 team.  Complete domination throughout the season and then the entire front 3 goes down with injuries.

Durocher was a brilliant coach.
They don't make them like that anymore (Brandt, Dr. J, Coven, Doug May).

SLU was strong before he came along tough, in fact  SLU was one of the better teams in the 70s and early 80s but then had about a 10 year drought before Coach Durocher came along and it took him about 4 seasons to get his system in place.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2017, 08:49:49 pm
Gr8 game going on between RPI and Vassar, and even better streaming and commentary.
Very professional.

Here we go Engineers!!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 08:51:09 pm
Yeah the current Head Coach at Salem State Don Goodwin's father was the longtime Head Coach before Durocher and was very well liked by his players and pretty successful..Not to the extent that Durocher was obviously but he did well up there for years...


Looks like RPI is holding strong v Vassar 0-0
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 25, 2017, 09:02:08 pm
Yeah the current Head Coach at Salem State Don Goodwin's father was the longtime Head Coach before Durocher and was very well liked by his players and pretty successful..Not to the extent that Durocher was obviously but he did well up there for years...


Looks like RPI is holding strong v Vassar 0-0

Or as I like to put it, "Coach Goodwin had many Good wins" :)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:15:23 pm
Just tuning into RPI v Vassar and RPI still holding strong as it is 0-0 with about 10 minutes left
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 09:15:59 pm
I was more referring to that 10 year drought before Durocher took over, but yes you are right, Goodwin had great teams in the 70s.

I didn't play for the program, I'm just an alum.  I grew up in Russell which is about 20 minutes from Canton so I was always a fan of the program and went to most of the games growing up.  It got harder once I started playing in HS but I went to as many games as I could.  I didn't actually attend SLU my first 2 years but ended up transferring and got my degree there (in fact at the first school I attended  Dave Brandt was the coach and I was able to try out with the rest of the walk ons, but that was a bust as you can clearly see :p)  Just a faithful alum and fan of the Scarlet and Brown.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:19:26 pm
I was more referring to that 10 year drought before Durocher took over, but yes you are right, Goodwin had great teams in the 70s.

I didn't play for the program, I'm just an alum.  I grew up in Russell which is about 20 minutes from Canton so I was always a fan of the program and went to most of the games growing up.  It got harder once I started playing in HS but I went to as many games as I could.  I didn't actually attend SLU my first 2 years but ended up transferring and got my degree there (in fact at the first school I attended Dave Brandt was the coach and I actually managed to get a walk on trial, but that was a bust :p)  Just a faithful alum and fan of the Scarlet and Brown.


+k...love the passion...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:23:54 pm
RPI and Vassar 0-0 heading to OT
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:32:00 pm
Just looking at the LL Standings if this RPI / Vassar result holds and RPI gets a draw it will set up an interesting scenario. RPI and CLarkson would be on 11 pts with Skidmore at 8 pts but playing at Bard Saturday. RPI and Clarkson will be playing at Clarkson Saturday and a draw will get both of them into the tournament...Could be Austria and West Germany of the 1982 World Cup where both teams needed just a draw to advance to the 2nd Round of the World Cup and they got that draw after both teams showed no willingness to attack or really play for that matter. It was like 90 minutes of just knocking the ball around..It was a bad situation for FIFA...Not saying RPI and Clarkson would ever do that but just thought I would bring up the situation...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 09:36:33 pm
Just looking at the LL Standings if this RPI / Vassar result holds and RPI gets a draw it will set up an interesting scenario. RPI and CLarkson would be on 11 pts with Skidmore at 8 pts but playing at Bard Saturday. RPI and Clarkson will be playing at Clarkson Saturday and a draw will get both of them into the tournament...Could be Austria and West Germany of the 1982 World Cup where both teams needed just a draw to advance to the 2nd Round of the World Cup and they got that draw after both teams showed no willingness to attack or really play for that matter. It was like 90 minutes of just knocking the ball around..It was a bad situation for FIFA...Not saying RPI and Clarkson would ever do that but just thought I would bring up the situation...

Pretty sure that game is the reason why the last games of the group stages are all played at the same time.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 09:39:27 pm
RPI with two HUGE chances to win it but both shots go wide.  Don't think it's going to get any better than that. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:40:22 pm
RPI misses a golden chance to win it in the 1st OT but Vassar defender just deflected the shot and then on the ensuing corner RPI player gets to a nice rebound and cracks one inches wide...0-0 heading to 2nd OT
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:41:16 pm
Just looking at the LL Standings if this RPI / Vassar result holds and RPI gets a draw it will set up an interesting scenario. RPI and CLarkson would be on 11 pts with Skidmore at 8 pts but playing at Bard Saturday. RPI and Clarkson will be playing at Clarkson Saturday and a draw will get both of them into the tournament...Could be Austria and West Germany of the 1982 World Cup where both teams needed just a draw to advance to the 2nd Round of the World Cup and they got that draw after both teams showed no willingness to attack or really play for that matter. It was like 90 minutes of just knocking the ball around..It was a bad situation for FIFA...Not saying RPI and Clarkson would ever do that but just thought I would bring up the situation...

Pretty sure that game is the reason why the last games of the group stages are all played at the same time.

Yea you are correct
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:44:38 pm
So SLU needs a Vassar loss to clinch the 1st Round Bye tonight? However if they win on Saturday they win the league?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 09:49:32 pm
If RPI-Vassar ends with a draw SLU needs to beat Hobart for 1st place.  If Vassar win tonight SLU needs to beat Hobart and have Vassar lose Saturday. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:51:30 pm
Jeez after seeing this Vassar GK a bit tonight and against Hobart I am not so sure about how far Vassar can go with him in net..He makes some questionable decisions back there.From what I have seen in OT and the 2nd Half RPI has had the more dangerous chances.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 09:55:17 pm
0-0 Final between RPI and Vassar...Both teams have tons to play for on SAturday..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 25, 2017, 09:55:44 pm
RPI grinds out a scoreless draw with Vassar.  I would say they deserved to win that game.   This now makes for an interesting Saturday.   As long as Hobart at least draws with SLU they win the league and SLU gets a first round bye only if Vassar loses.  If SLU wins they win the league only if Vassar doesn't get 3 points.   I fully expect Hobart to play for a win and not sit back because of AQ implications.  After the loss against Utica they're definitely out but getting a couple more wins to end the year might help them.  Either way it's going to be a very interesting weekend. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 10:00:59 pm
Yea that SLU at Hobart match is must see tv...I originally thought the match was in Canton but it is actually in Geneva...I think it is a 2pm start time so I am expecting to Hobart to play SLU straight up as well as there should be no reason to sit in as they will want to win that game...Luckily, Hobart has a fantastic stream
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 25, 2017, 10:03:07 pm
Here are the playoff scenarios as I view them:

SLU -- wins the league with a win and a Vassar draw or loss (I'm not sure what the first tie-breaker is, but Vassar won head-to-head)

Hobart -- wins the league with a win or a draw and a Vassar loss or draw

Vassar -- wins the league with a win and a SLU-Hobart draw (and also possibly a SLU win, depending on the tie-breaker)

Saturday should be prime viewing!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 25, 2017, 10:05:39 pm
Just looking at the LL Standings if this RPI / Vassar result holds and RPI gets a draw it will set up an interesting scenario. RPI and CLarkson would be on 11 pts with Skidmore at 8 pts but playing at Bard Saturday. RPI and Clarkson will be playing at Clarkson Saturday and a draw will get both of them into the tournament...Could be Austria and West Germany of the 1982 World Cup where both teams needed just a draw to advance to the 2nd Round of the World Cup and they got that draw after both teams showed no willingness to attack or really play for that matter. It was like 90 minutes of just knocking the ball around..It was a bad situation for FIFA...Not saying RPI and Clarkson would ever do that but just thought I would bring up the situation...

Clarkson and RPI may not play to kill the clock, but conservative play is highly likely given the circumstances.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 25, 2017, 10:06:15 pm
That is good news Ommadawn because Vassar needs SLU and Hobart to draw that should mean Hobart will play straight up against SLU. A draw willl only hurt them
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 25, 2017, 11:08:00 pm
Catching up on the LL box scores/play-by-play tonight, I was impressed with RIT's thumping of Ithaca, whose hot streak seems to be tapering off.  Bard got their best LL offensive game of the season only to be denied by Union's best offensive showing of the season.  I was initially puzzled by RPI's domination of the shot count down the stretch, but that can probably be explained by the big holes in Vassar's lineup (Novas, Gilmore, and Olsson account for more than 50% of Vassar's offense, and the latter two are key to the Brewers' defensive effort).  I'm not sure if the injury or illness bug has struck, but depth is especially important near the end of the season!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 26, 2017, 10:07:01 am
Good catch on the missing Vassar players.  Don't know what was going on there and the second half payback to Mrlik for last year's hattie may have some long term effects.  Hobart now has control--with a win it wins league.  Unless Vassar is still way short handed they beat Ithaca at home.  They hold the tie-breaker with SLU.  A Hobart-SLU draw or SLU win puts Vassar at number 1.  Clarkson is in with the tiebreaker over Skidmore.  Last spot is between RPI and Skidmore.  A Skidmore win and RPI loss leaves them tied with a tie between themselves and almost identical records against the top LL teams.  Don't know who gets in at that point.  On the award side of the house RPI's Bisson is a lock for ROY.  POY is either Okoye or Dede.  DPOY--anyone's guess.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 26, 2017, 01:10:31 pm
Re: DPOY, I've not been overly impressed by GK play across the LL teams I've watched. 

However,  both Skidmore (14 GA) and Hobart (12 GA) have had great defensive seasons (and at least two of the 12 GA at Hobart are GK mistakes). I'm thinking that Greening (Skidmore), Escamilla (Hobart) and Critchlow (Hobart) have been incredibly important as central defenders for their teams. 

Defense was unsteady early on for SLU and much better of late.  Something has stabilized along their back line and I'm impressed with their #23 (Macnamee).

Three of these four play each other this weekend.
If its a goal-a-paloooza in Geneva, well, good for Skidmore's Greening :)

And, yes, maybe I've a soft spot for rugged and committed central defenders.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 26, 2017, 02:38:28 pm
Great game yesterday between Vassar and RPI.
This is a very competitive league.
It seems that any of the top 7 can beat each other on any given day.

This is how the league season should end with Hobart and SLU going at each other for the top prize.
The defending champions looking to edge both out.
No one wanting to play the hottest team in the league (Tigers).
Knights and Engineers are looking to win the whole thing and dance.

This 6 team thing worked out really well in the inaugural season.

Tough on Ithaca who really did have a shot and showed themselves to be a quality side.
Best league game all year was Bard holding Bart to a tie which is now making for a consequential climax to the season.
BTW people, Skidmore is still in this thing!!!
I wont write them off yet, especially due to my soft spot for Okoye.
The kid played with Beek and they will both go down as two of Skidmore's and the Leagues best. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 28, 2017, 09:34:47 am
Last day predictions anyone?  From easiest to hardest:  1) Skidmore v. Bard, 3-0 Thoroughbreds--Akoye gets a brace to lock up POY but in the words of Carole King, it's too late baby for Skidmore although they really tried to make it; 2) Vassar v. Ithaca, 2-0 Vassar who wins LL regular season (see below) as Ithaca doesn't savor spoiler role and is deflated after RIT whalloping; 3) RIT v. Union, 3-1 Tigers who continue to keep the momentum going into the playoffs; 4) RPI v. Clarkson, 0-0 as both teams' offensive woes continue; and 5) Hobart v. SLU, 1-1 as Hobart's Utica loss and SLU's domination by Vassar means that neither of these teams merit the regular season crown and rightly they end up not.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 28, 2017, 11:21:08 am
Last day predictions anyone?  From easiest to hardest:  1) Skidmore v. Bard, 3-0 Thoroughbreds--Akoye gets a brace to lock up POY but in the words of Carole King, it's too late baby for Skidmore although they really tried to make it; 2) Vassar v. Ithaca, 2-0 Vassar who wins LL regular season (see below) as Ithaca doesn't savor spoiler role and is deflated after RIT whalloping; 3) RIT v. Union, 3-1 Tigers who continue to keep the momentum going into the playoffs; 4) RPI v. Clarkson, 0-0 as both teams' offensive woes continue; and 5) Hobart v. SLU, 1-1 as Hobart's Utica loss and SLU's domination by Vassar means that neither of these teams merit the regular season crown and rightly they end up not.

I'll bite:

Agree that Skidmore wins over Bard, 1-0.  Not sure Skidmore can score three goals in a game, but also not sure if Bard will commit to defending.
Agree that Vassar takes it to Ithaca, and a 2-0 scoreline seems about right.
Agree with RIT over Union, even as 3-1 seems like a little bit of a nod to Union.
Differ in that RPI beats Clarkson, 1-0 (in OT)....  Both will be committed, but RPI is just a bit better at this point in the year.
Differ in that Hobart beat SLU, 2-1 (again in OT).  The Saints are just not as sound in the back as in past years and Hobart has been looking at this game for a week (and forgot that Utica was not).... I would say 2-0, but Hobart always gives up a goal if they score first. Perhaps a (muted) bias here.

Wishing all the seniors and their families the best day possible, knowing that four teams are done after this game.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 28, 2017, 04:16:38 pm
Make it the second time in 3 years SLU loses at Hobart in overtime off a penalty.  Looked like a cheap penalty call to me but I may be biased.  Outside of 2009 this may be the worst regular season SLU performance since the early 90s.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 28, 2017, 04:23:36 pm
I happened to catch it...it was a foul...it was in the box but not sure I would have given a PK in that situation..SLU looks to be tied with RIT and they tied in the regular season..what the next tie breaker? Same goes for RPI and Skidmore at the bottom
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 28, 2017, 04:24:26 pm
SLU won the head to head with RIT so they get the 3 seed and will play Skidmore in the first round it seems.  RPI loses out entirely. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on October 28, 2017, 04:27:10 pm
I'm pretty sure RPI is out, Skidmore is in. First tiebreaker is head-to-head, that was a draw. Second tiebreaker is record against conference opponents in descending order.

Hobart won the league. Skidmore drew with Hobart, RPI lost to Hobart. So Skidmore gets the sixth seed. Right?

So Hobart and Vassar sit tight while St. Lawrence hosts Skidmore, and RIT hosts Clarkson.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 28, 2017, 04:28:47 pm
I got mixed up with standings but yes it appears you're right.  RPI misses the LL tourney and appears Skidmore grabs the last spot. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 28, 2017, 05:02:31 pm
That is kind of a crazy 2nd Tiebreaker..I mean obviously head to head BUT record in descending order? That is the first time i have heard of that...I suppose it makes sense..I would think league wins would mean more...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 28, 2017, 05:45:46 pm
Startling statistic--after Bard the team that gave up the most goals this year is???? SLU.  Now the LL commissioners don't have to worry about picking a POY from a team that didn't make the playoffs.  Skidmore in by the skin of their teeth.  Good call on that Saint.  I had written them off, especially when RPI went up 1-0 on Clarkson. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 30, 2017, 12:12:44 pm
Yes it’s time for notes on a scorecard end of regular season addition and congrats to the Statesmen and Herons for winning the daily double and hosting in Geneva.  After a weekly summary in a new feature I will add my year-end awards.  Later this week I will add my starting XI.  In order of finish: 1) Hobart—Cardiac kids do it again, this time in 2 OT with regular league championship on the line and after being the beneficiary of two huge calls; 2) Vassar—Dodges Ithaca’s spoiler bid but as a team that hasn’t shown well on the road will suffer from this year’s new format having all semifinal and final fixtures at Hobart; 3) St. Lawrence—straight red on first half sub gifts Hobart the crown and year-long inability to defend with three tough games to get a championship means that SLU very likely will be missing the NCAAs for the first time in what seems forever; 4) RIT—This is one scary team that has its offense clicking on all cylinders at home and on the road and draws a weaker team in No. 5 than No. 6, at least on paper; 5)  Clarkson—what a huge confidence building result with a playoff berth in hand to come from behind and break RPI’s hearts; 6) Skidmore—given up for dead the team with the most talent in the league is resurrected by Clarkson into the playoffs; 7) RPI—Excruciating loss for team that obviously knew that Skidmore had taken care of business, and in a year of keeper weakness generally, from looks of video replays sophomore goalie did them no favors on either of the goals; 8) Ithaca—Coach had them ready to play but problem with soccer is that one marking lapse on a long ball into the box can end up being the decider; 9) Union—Having avoided the ignominious distinction of no league wins, rolls over for RIT in final contest; and 10)  Bard—Has a a lot of holes to fill next year, no bigger than the quality striker they graduate in Shenberger.  Awards—POY—Okoye;  DPOY--H. Critchlow (love defenders who can score especially in a weak goalie year); ROY--Bisson; CSOY—Clarkson, RIT share.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 30, 2017, 12:50:59 pm
Don't count SLU out just yet.

I am not guaranteeing a dance, but stranger things have happened in soccer than St. Lawrence winning three straight games.

In all honesty, I cannot say they are the best team in the league this year, but I think this team can beat anyone.
As a fan of the program, I am looking forward to entering post season as under dogs. A role the team relished in 2005 in knocking off favorite U of R.

In my pre-season predictions, I had SLU finishing 3rd and Hobart/Vassar top two.
Also had Skidmore getting in as well.

My surprise was that all LL teams did so poorly out of conference (except for Union ofcoarse).

This will be a wild ride.
I think my POY is still Dede, as I had thought preseason, but if Skidmore beats SLU, I will happily switch to Okoye.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 30, 2017, 02:02:31 pm
Thanks, Deutschfan, for excellent summary agree on your player and coaching staff awards (for now, but lets see who moves forward to break the ties)!

Skidmore is a scary sixth seed, and SLU will be missing a key defender from the red card at Hobart. 
Still, t I think SLU moves on, 1:0, to see Vassar on Saturday.

RIT gets by Clarkson 2:0 and faces Hobart, again.

I'll wait to guess the weekend games after the first round results....

Good luck to all four teams and all the best to the seniors and their families.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 30, 2017, 02:37:58 pm
Bart--Totally agree that Skidmore is a really tough number 6.  Here are my playoff predictions: 1) SLU over Skidmore (toughest call); 2) RIT over Clarkson; 3) SLU over Vassar; 4) RIT over Hobart (second toughest call); 5) SLU over RIT.  This is not a sop to Saint or the rest of the SLU supporters (homers) on this board.  I look at SLU's losses against Vassar and Hobart being avoidable without the defensive blunders and believe that SLU's tradition will carry the day.  Can't believe I am writing this.  Plus Saint was prescient about Skidmore making the playoffs a few days ago so you have to go with the hot handicapper.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 30, 2017, 11:17:57 pm
Just saw this graphic posted by the LL twitter handle. Does the "Finak 4: Nov 4/5" imply that Hobart hosts both semis...? This would be a throwback to the 2008 days. Brutal for Vassar if that's true, no playoff game in Po-Town.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on October 31, 2017, 07:32:19 am
Just saw this graphic posted by the LL twitter handle. Does the "Finak 4: Nov 4/5" imply that Hobart hosts both semis...? This would be a throwback to the 2008 days. Brutal for Vassar if that's true, no playoff game in Po-Town.

Yes, semis and final are hosted by Hobart.
Hobart plays 4/5 winner at 11, Saturday
Vassar plays 3/6 winner at 130, Saturday
Final is Sunday for 2.

William Smith soccer is also hosting playoffs and there is a home football game -- busy sports weekend in Geneva....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on October 31, 2017, 09:00:46 am
Just saw this graphic posted by the LL twitter handle. Does the "Finak 4: Nov 4/5" imply that Hobart hosts both semis...? This would be a throwback to the 2008 days. Brutal for Vassar if that's true, no playoff game in Po-Town.

Yes, semis and final are hosted by Hobart.
Hobart plays 4/5 winner at 11, Saturday
Vassar plays 3/6 winner at 130, Saturday
Final is Sunday for 2.

William Smith soccer is also hosting playoffs and there is a home football game -- busy sports weekend in Geneva....

Last time this happened, they ended up using a separate field (down near football stadium, not sure what it's normal purpose is). Hope that isn't the case this weekend.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 11:39:47 am
RIT hosting Clarkson in a 11am Quarterfinal right now..Strange starting time but I'll take a 11am Tuesday start on a day off..1-1 5 min to Halftime
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 12:17:29 pm
RIT looks to be in a 4-4-2 and Clarkson a 4-2-3-1. Still 1-1 about 30 minutes left. Clarkson not afraid to attack with 5 but both teams playing cautiously. RIT coming on strong the last 5 minutes as they have missed a couple good chances and some fine GK'ing by Clarkson's GK has kept this game level.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 12:22:17 pm
RIT taking it to Clarkson midway thru the 2nd Half and are looking for that go ahead goal that must be surely coming. Clarkson on its heels here 2nd Half
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 12:34:34 pm
Clarkson holding strong as RIT does have a massive wind advantage 2nd half. Both teams try to play a bit but Clarkson backs overpass and are susceptible to a bad giveaway..

RIT parents just merciless on this poor ref...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 12:38:34 pm
RIT gets a predictable goal that was coming all 2nd Half with about 12 minutes....I missed it so I cannot describe but 2-1 RIT with about 10 left..Clarkson has a tall task ahead of them going into this wind. They MUST send everyone forward now
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 12:53:28 pm
RIT finishes off Clarkson 2-1..2nd Half was all RIT but they did have the wind advantage. RIT looked more athletic and skilled than Clarkson from what I saw the 2nd Half. They have enough talent to win the LL so their match v Vassar will be interesting. I wonder if Hobart will take the early game or late game?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2017, 01:02:02 pm
It was a good finish to the upper shelf from the top of the box.  Based on obnoxiousness of RIT fans I hope that Hobart feed microphone is about as far from the stands in Geneva as possible. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on October 31, 2017, 01:08:42 pm
It was a good finish to the upper shelf from the top of the box.  Based on obnoxiousness of RIT fans I hope that Hobart feed microphone is about as far from the stands in Geneva as possible.


LOL that was BAD...Calling the ref an idiot, one parent saying " let's write down this guy's name and report him". Yea I am sure that will go as planned. These parents are clueless. The ref made a few mistakes like all refs but he kept up with the play an did his job which is all you can really ask...Also, Hobart has 2 announcers and they are not near parents and it is a fantastic stream..Should be all set.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2017, 01:14:40 pm
Great.  I was thinking all of these fans must have been from Manhattan given their intensity.  RIT plays Hobart next.  Only saw the second half but Clarkson did not look good.  That they achieved the 5th seed is somewhat miraculous.  Good job by the coaching staff.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 31, 2017, 04:26:34 pm
Nice win for SLU to live another day.  In control for most of the game, Skidmore only had 1 or 2 decent scoring chances.  Rare year where SLU beats Skidmore twice in one season. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2017, 05:02:32 pm
Home teams hold serve.  As seems to be the story for the league this year, no defense for keeper error.  McNamee has a nice strike but Skidmore's keeper could have done a lot of things other than deflecting it into the net.  SLU deserved the win.  Gonna be quite the soccer party in Geneva as the RIT, SLU, Vassar, and Hobart/William Smith men's and women's teams will be congregated there for the next round. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on October 31, 2017, 05:12:47 pm
Nice win for SLU to live another day.  In control for most of the game, Skidmore only had 1 or 2 decent scoring chances.  Rare year where SLU beats Skidmore twice in one season.

I was unable to watch the game, unfortunately, but appreciate your assessment because the stats appear not to tell the story.  Skidmore had a decided advantage in shots (21 to 12) and shots on goal (10 to 3), but the Thoroughbred shots must have been from distance.  That's it for the Okoye/Santos era!  The path is clear for Dede to be MVP.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on October 31, 2017, 05:40:34 pm
There were a lot of blocked shots and weak shots that bounced into Smith.  Okoye had 2 or 3 good looks on goal that resulted in really weak efforts.  Smith wasn't really tested. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on October 31, 2017, 05:42:59 pm
Don't know if the voters take into account the finals performances.  I think the votes are already in by Saturday.  At this point there are at least 4 players that statistically had better years than Dede: Okoye, Novas, Kouroupas, Garno, and a fifth, H. Critchlow who leads the regular season champs in scoring despite being a defender and would get my vote if Okoye wasn't in the mix.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on October 31, 2017, 06:36:10 pm
Statistics means nothing.
A Baller is a baller and like the supreme court justice said "when you see it you know it".
What the SLU #6 has is POISE ON THE BALL. Better than anyone in the entire league now or anyone I remember playing against or with.

Again, I am not saying he is good because he has 6 game winning or tying goals this year, scoring is not his thing.
He controls the game. Not many players have this ability.
This kid was ROY first team in 15
First team in 16
Most definitely will be first team this year as well.

But again, accolades and statistic makes not the player, just watch each game he plays and you will see objectively that this kid is a notch above most players.

I normally qualify statements tat there may be a SLU bias inserted, but in this case absolutely not, straight TRUTH.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 01, 2017, 02:34:57 pm
Filled with exuberance after picking the first two games right, the following is my starting XI.  I have picked a player from every team with two defenders from Hobart as befits the regular season champs whose success was predicated on their defense.  While the league typically loads up the first team with players from the higher finishers, this year a case can be made for a representative of each of the teams and as Saint noted the SLU representative is a lock:
FWDS--Novas-Vas; Shenberger-Bard
MFS--Dede-SLU; Okoye-Skid; Lichtman-Ith; Garno-RIT
DS--H. Critchlow-Hob; Escamilla-Hob; Bisson-RPI; Homan-Clark
G--Weitzman-Uni
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 01, 2017, 03:11:29 pm
Home teams hold serve.  As seems to be the story for the league this year, no defense for keeper error.  McNamee has a nice strike but Skidmore's keeper could have done a lot of things other than deflecting it into the net.  SLU deserved the win.  Gonna be quite the soccer party in Geneva as the RIT, SLU, Vassar, and Hobart/William Smith men's and women's teams will be congregated there for the next round.

Tip of the hat to Deutschfan's calls for first round games, but we diverge for semis and finals:

1100 game on Saturday, Hobart 1:0 over RIT (in OT, because it takes 30 shots for Hobart to score and getting 30 shots against RIT will take some time...). 
1330 game, SLU 2:1 over Vassar (SLU defense rounding into form very nicely, Vassar will struggle to find space for their creative efforts).

Bit of a homer tilt to Hobart (as RIT could easily have won the first time the played), but Hobart has given up 13 goals all season (three on keeper error) and will be very tough at home.

I'm going to pick Hobart to win championship (FULL homer bias), 1:0 again.
This said, if it becomes an RIT v. Vassar, I go RIT (2:1).
If final is RIT v. SLU. I go with SLU 1:0.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 01, 2017, 04:58:39 pm
EAST REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - November 01, 2017

Rank

School
. Div. III .
Record
. Div. III .
SOS

 . R-v-R .
. Overall .
Record
. Prev. .
Rank
1.
Cortland State
15-2-0
0.580
4-2-0
15-2-0
1
2.
Oneonta State
13-1-2
0.593
2-1-2
13-1-2
2
3.
Rochester
11-2-3
0.586
3-2-2
11-2-3
4
4.
Buffalo State
14-2-3
0.561
2-0-2
14-2-3
3
5.
Plattsburgh State
12-6-1
0.597
1-5-0
12-6-1
--
6.
Hobart
8-4-4
0.573
1-2-1
8-4-4
5
7.
Vassar
9-4-3
0.561
0-2-1
9-4-3
8
8.
Brockport State
10-6-3
0.583
0-3-1
10-6-3
7
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 02, 2017, 08:56:21 am
Looks like only one team from LL will get a bid this year.

Also looks like curtains for anyone not named Cortland, Oneonta or Plattsburgh in terms of a possible Pool C bid out of the SUNYAC.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 02, 2017, 09:20:11 am
Looks like only one team from LL will get a bid this year.

Also looks like curtains for anyone not named Cortland, Oneonta or Plattsburgh in terms of a possible Pool C bid out of the SUNYAC.

Doesn't Buffalo State look pretty good too?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Golden_Fan on November 02, 2017, 10:04:18 am
Looks like only one team from LL will get a bid this year.

Also looks like curtains for anyone not named Cortland, Oneonta or Plattsburgh in terms of a possible Pool C bid out of the SUNYAC.

Doesn't Buffalo State look pretty good too?

Buff State lost to Geneseo in their playoff game and Plattsburgh just beat Cortland yesterday to move on to the finals. I would think that Plattsburgh moves ahead of them
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on November 02, 2017, 12:44:55 pm
I'd love to see a Hobart-SLU rematch in the final. Seemed like a competitive game, despite the 45' red to SLU. 11v11 without 2 PK's and that's going to be a hell of a contest!

Big games on Saturday though...SLU owes Vassar some payback!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 02, 2017, 01:40:38 pm
Ahh after watching RIT on Tuesday I would not count them out of winning it. Granted I only saw the Half where they had a huge wind advantage at their backs and Clarkson looked dead after 55 minutes and did not get a sniff on net for the last 35 minutes BUT STILL..They have something going on and they are athletic enough to compete for LL Title..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Flying Weasel on November 02, 2017, 01:50:45 pm
Looks like only one team from LL will get a bid this year.

Also looks like curtains for anyone not named Cortland, Oneonta or Plattsburgh in terms of a possible Pool C bid out of the SUNYAC.

Doesn't Buffalo State look pretty good too?

Buff State lost to Geneseo in their playoff game and Plattsburgh just beat Cortland yesterday to move on to the finals. I would think that Plattsburgh moves ahead of them

There is no criteria that accounts for what round of your conference tournament you were eliminated.  And from following and studying the at-large selections over the past 10 years, I have not seen evidence to support the idea that the committee gives extra weight to conference tournament games.  To them it's just another game(s) that contribute to the overall record, overall SOS, and RvR.

Buffalo State's resume is actually helped by Plattsburgh being ranked as it gives them another win vs. a ranked team.  So here's how they compare right now:

Buffalo State
14-2-3 (.816) D-III record is final
0.561 SOS
3-0-2 RvR w/ addition of win over Plattsburgh St. who is now ranked

Plattsburgh State
13-6-1 (.675) D-III record w/ one game left vs. Onoenta
0.597 SOS will improve with games against Cortland and Oneonta
2-5-0 RvR w/ Cortland win, will change with Oneonta result

So, if Plattsburgh doesn't win the SUNYAC AQ and are competing with Buffalo St. for an at-large berth, they will have lost or tied (PK elim) in the final.  Let's assume a tie.  That makes their resume look like this:

Plattsburgh State
13-6-2 (.667) D-III record assuming tie with Oneonta in final)
0.597 SOS will improve with games against Cortland and Oneonta
2-5-1 RvR w/ win over Cortland and assuming tie with Oneonta in final

In that case, . . .

Buffalo St. hold the advantage in D-III record
Plattsburgh St. holds the advantage in SOS
Buffalo St. holds the advantage in RvR
Buffalo St. won the head-to-head match
Common opponents of note:
   Buffalo St. tied Oneonta, Plattsburgh St. lost to and tied Oneonta
   Buffalo St. beat Cortland, Plattsburgh St. lost to and beat Cortland
   Buffalo St. tied Brockport, Plattsburgh St. lost to and beat Brockport
   Slight edge to Buffalo St.?
Misc:
   Buffalo St. beat Rochester; Plattsburgh St. lost to Johns Hopkins

Looking at all that, I'm not sure what moves Plattsburgh St. head of Buffalo St.  Buffalo St. lost at an inopportune time, but it doesn't undo everything else they accomplished this season.  Just like Plattsburgh's tournament run doesn't erase all their losses during the regular season.  Buffalo St. beat the teams ranked #1, #3, #5 in the region, tied the team ranked #2.  And Buffalo St. won the head-to-head.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 02, 2017, 04:42:18 pm
Ahh after watching RIT on Tuesday I would not count them out of winning it. Granted I only saw the Half where they had a huge wind advantage at their backs and Clarkson looked dead after 55 minutes and did not get a sniff on net for the last 35 minutes BUT STILL..They have something going on and they are athletic enough to compete for LL Title..
All of the final 4 teams have a shot at winning the tournament....I am a bit biased , but Hobart is very hungry right now and tastes the post season and it helps to be on familiar turf, but a bad/good bounce , a well timed header, the perfect corner kick, a slip of the goalie will separate these closely matched teams. It should be 2 good games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 04, 2017, 12:10:34 pm
Hobart goes up 1-0 on a fantastic run by Derek Acheampong..Made a really nice off ball run after a pass to his teammate and turned on the jets got a nice return pass and slotted it home. RIT has had a few really good looks but have not been able to finish. 1-0 Hobart early 2nd Half
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 04, 2017, 02:36:15 pm
With his skills it is amazing Derek doesn't have more goals this year.  If Vassar holds lead SLU's epitaph for the season as well as its string of NCAA appearances will be "Couldn't clear a ball against Vassar."
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 04, 2017, 03:31:50 pm
Vassar v. Hobart for AQ, loser will not be dancing.
Hobart lucky to get out of the first half of their game without being behind, but dominant in second half.
Vassar finds that first goal and then makes it stand up.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 04, 2017, 06:42:38 pm
Cmon Saint Nation, lets pull for that Pool C :)

But in all seriousness:
Big props for what is this year the two best teams in the league, Brewers and Statesmen.
When a team beats you twice in one season, it means they are better than you.
Vassar are a great team, that is well coached and has been tough for quite some time. They would be great representatives for our league.
The Statesmen are no joke either, and they just took out, what I consider, the best story of the 2017 LL, RIT, what an announcement they made, the Tigers definitely roared this season.

Hobart had a rough start to the year, only a great team can recover from such a start and then dance, so if they do I think they will be planning on really getting their boogie on.

Anyway, great work boyz. It is really a shame that the loser of Tomm's game could not get bid because there will be two NCAA caliber  teams playing for the LL title this year.

P.S.
Memo to SLU, if you keep possessing the ball with your defenders in your defensive half of the field then:
1. You give teams too much time to reshape and be ready for your attack
2. (as we saw today) You could lose it deep nd pay serious consequences as a result.
3. Possess and attack hard is a better option.

I have faith in Coach T and his vision for the program, the man is already a legend and has a good plan.
Next year is a big one for the program.

This will be the best SLU senior class in recent memory, but they must have help to overcome what is a powerful LL final 4 teams.


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 05, 2017, 07:37:19 am
A solid win by Hobart against a talented RIT team......can they persevere against Vassar today? Too bad the loser probably won't make the NCAAs....good luck to both teams
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 05, 2017, 11:11:41 am
My miss on both teams in the finals certainly gives me the right to predict the outcome of today's final.  Vassar 2, Hobart 1.  Vassar repeats as champions and puts in its NESCAC application. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 05, 2017, 11:12:08 am
Cmon Saint Nation, lets pull for that Pool C :)

But in all seriousness:
Big props for what is this year the two best teams in the league, Brewers and Statesmen.
When a team beats you twice in one season, it means they are better than you.
Vassar are a great team, that is well coached and has been tough for quite some time. They would be great representatives for our league.
The Statesmen are no joke either, and they just took out, what I consider, the best story of the 2017 LL, RIT, what an announcement they made, the Tigers definitely roared this season.

Hobart had a rough start to the year, only a great team can recover from such a start and then dance, so if they do I think they will be planning on really getting their boogie on.

Anyway, great work boyz. It is really a shame that the loser of Tomm's game could not get bid because there will be two NCAA caliber  teams playing for the LL title this year.

P.S.
Memo to SLU, if you keep possessing the ball with your defenders in your defensive half of the field then:
1. You give teams too much time to reshape and be ready for your attack
2. (as we saw today) You could lose it deep nd pay serious consequences as a result.
3. Possess and attack hard is a better option.

I have faith in Coach T and his vision for the program, the man is already a legend and has a good plan.
Next year is a big one for the program.

This will be the best SLU senior class in recent memory, but they must have help to overcome what is a powerful LL final 4 teams.

Having watched both of yesterday's games in person, must say I was surprised by the lack of urgency from SLU once they went down.  Seemed like they were waiting for someone to do something special?   Vassar played a smart game -- these teams know each other well -- and stymied SLU.  Long ball soccer requires physicality up front, and SLU's strength seemed to be in the (often bypassed) midfield that was relegated to defending and delivering the ball to the back line. Late in the game, Dede started lots of runs on his side of mid-line ... and Vassar defended in waves.

The Hobart game was curious because RIT should have been ahead by half, but missed on two chances (one shot went right to the keeper -- unlucky for Vassar/lucky for Hobart, the other shot got be the keeper and #7's (Binjo Emmanual) amazing recovery run prevented it from rolling in).  Then Hobart played as good a half as they have this year.

Am keen to see the rematch of Vassar and Hobart given how close it was two weeks ago. As Saint of Old notes, it is very hard to beat the same team twice in one season.  Weather will be a factor (rain and high winds predicted), both teams will be tired, and there are enough nicks and bruises on both teams to lead me to suspect a relative unknown, and a strange play or two, will decide the game.

My heart says wins Hobart 1:0 in OT.
My head says Vassar wins 2:0 (the second goal is a product of Hobart throwing everything forward and giving up a counter attack).
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 05, 2017, 12:58:50 pm
I watched second semi and totally agree with your assessment.  Once down SLU was content to pass it around the back, a tactic that played right into Vassar's hand with a goal advantage.  Because of the camera positioning there was a lot of close shots of SLU's right back, the tall Spanish freshman who received the red card against Hobart.  He's big but that's about it.  He would collect the ball with space and take his time rather than quickly attacking up the right side even though that has been Vassar's Achilles heel as shown in the Wesleyan and Hobart games.  Both McNamee and Brandell disappeared in this one.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 05, 2017, 02:59:14 pm
Hobart with a goal in each half to go 2-0 up on Vassar. "The little team that can't score got two yesterday and two today," says the announcer. I've only watched about 40 mins of this one, but the Statemen have been absolutely dominant.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 05, 2017, 03:09:35 pm
Hobart running riot here, almost makes it three, but the man running in on goal doesn't pass to his wide-open counterpart, and it's out for a corner.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 05, 2017, 03:11:20 pm
Vassar starting to create some chances, but Hobart has defended well.

Ooh, off the post! Then wide! This game isn't over yet. 15 left.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 05, 2017, 03:18:27 pm
Hobart settles down and almost ices it with 9 minutes left -- fantastic diving save by the Vassar 'keeper.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 05, 2017, 03:25:38 pm
Vassar with a man sent off. Not long left now.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 05, 2017, 03:29:18 pm
Hobart wins 2-0 over Vassar, first LL title since 2009 (and first NCAA bid since 2011). A deserved win on the day, and Hobart seems to be deserved LL champions. Congrats to the Statesmen.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on November 05, 2017, 03:42:54 pm
Good for Hobart.  They definitely deserved that.  Looking forward to them making a run in the tournament. 

And I must say it was a disappointing end to SLU's season to say the least.  I commend Brandell for coming back as a graduate student to fulfill his last year of eligibility, but he never fully recovered from is broken leg.  Program has had to replace multiple All-Americans over the last few seasons and it finally caught up to them.  I know they'll be back but hard not to be disappointed. 

Regardless it's always exciting to see other teams compete and I'll be pulling for the Statesmen in the tourney!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 05, 2017, 06:00:04 pm
Was at today's game and came away thoroughly unimpressed by Vassar.  Two red cards, both earned, and several yellows (including their coach, who was should have been sent off for what he was yelling at the refs.  As one of the spectators noted: he needs a time out chair).  Vassar are a good side, but completely fell apart under the speed and pressure and physicality of Hobart. Early in the season they were quite fluid and very creative going forward.  Today they were a shell of that and mostly made you wonder how they beat SLU.

Still not sure how Hobart score their goals (today's were both scored by a center back - #25).
However, 1/4 of ALL their goals this year have been scored in the last three games....
Very impressed with Hobart's holding mids, Colmanares and H. Critchlow, and the four defenders, who overcome some weak GK play.
Very impressed with the willingness of the waves of Hobart wings and forward who all work hard, chase and press.
It seemed like hockey with three shifts of three who rotated through -- it can be very disruptive.

Am hoping that Hobart can go a few games into the NCAAs and atone for the league's poor out of conference play.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on November 05, 2017, 06:39:17 pm
Isnt Hobart only the 2nd team to win both the regular season and tournament after SLU?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 05, 2017, 07:54:33 pm
Bart--I saw on the stream the hack that led to the second red, but what was the reason for the first?  If it was dissent that is unfortunate because it sounds like the coaching staff set the tone.  Vassar did look much better earlier in the year.  Their leading scorers in pre-season Van Brewer and Mrlik did not get a goal in 11 conference and tournament games.  Novas was the difference maker in league and as you saw he imploded in the final.  All hail the Hobart defenders.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 05, 2017, 09:11:28 pm
Bart--I saw on the stream the hack that led to the second red, but what was the reason for the first?  If it was dissent that is unfortunate because it sounds like the coaching staff set the tone.  Vassar did look much better earlier in the year.  Their leading scorers in pre-season Van Brewer and Mrlik did not get a goal in 11 conference and tournament games.  Novas was the difference maker in league and as you saw he imploded in the final.  All hail the Hobart defenders.   

The Vassar player shoved the ref after the second goal.
It was a scrum and must have been very frustrating to see a ball come through the mess into the goal (and no fault to the Vassar keeper, who defended well all game).
Took me a few minutes to realize Vassar was down to 10 men ....

Having had at Vassar a bit, want to be sure to praise #22, Mrlik, for his quality of play as a holding mid.  NO goals were scored by Hobart in the run of play in large part to his ability to cover a lot of ground (on a muddy and increasingly slippery field) and clean up mistakes, break up attacks, and encourage his team mates. He did way more than 1/11 of the total work out there and was by far Vassar's best player today.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 06, 2017, 09:35:08 am
Good for Hobart.  They definitely deserved that.  Looking forward to them making a run in the tournament. 

And I must say it was a disappointing end to SLU's season to say the least.  I commend Brandell for coming back as a graduate student to fulfill his last year of eligibility, but he never fully recovered from is broken leg.  Program has had to replace multiple All-Americans over the last few seasons and it finally caught up to them.  I know they'll be back but hard not to be disappointed. 

Regardless it's always exciting to see other teams compete and I'll be pulling for the Statesmen in the tourney!

Oh Yes.
From now until the end of November I will be a Statesman fan.
These boys really deserve it, not only are they the first team to do the double since SLU, but, besides SLU they re the only team to go undefeated against the league all year.

These boys have played 11 league games and are undefeated.
This is an extremely strong team entering the Tournament.
I hope they make a good run and represent the LL well.
I am sure they will.
Also:
Shouts out to former Saint midfield general Bednarsky who is doing good work alongside a very good coaching staff at Hobart!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 06, 2017, 10:56:01 am
Mostly a Statesmen Football follower, but this Statesmen soccer TEAM is something special .....I am not that knowledgeable on soccer but I was totally into the last few home games ....I was very impressed with the stamina, toughness ,speed  and skills of many of the players I watched both on the Hobart team and many of the opponents.... BTW, I watched much of the game above the Vassar goal...Vassar's goaltender was athletic and made some great saves..........this weekend was very special in Geneva with 2 Liberty League championships and opportunities to advance in the NCAA's ....very cool....
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 06, 2017, 11:13:50 am
Having had at Vassar a bit, want to be sure to praise #22, Mrlik, for his quality of play as a holding mid.  NO goals were scored by Hobart in the run of play in large part to his ability to cover a lot of ground (on a muddy and increasingly slippery field) and clean up mistakes, break up attacks, and encourage his team mates. He did way more than 1/11 of the total work out there and was by far Vassar's best player today.

I've not seen a ton of Vassar but Mrlik has been their best player when I've seen them. His brother Zander was a two-sport athlete at Vassar in soccer and baseball, graduating in 2013, and was the best player on the 2012 LL Champion Brewers team. I was very impressed with him when they played Brandeis in the second round -- he was an absolute beast at both ends of the field.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 06, 2017, 11:41:01 am
That Brandeis game was a great game, despite the ending, and that was probably Vassar's best team from front to back.  Last notes on a scorecard as the LL season ends.  On the positive it was one of the most exciting LL seasons in a long time.  On the negative, some abysmal out of conference results even by the top teams.  Congrats to the Statesmen and Herons for being gracious hosts, not allowing their guests to take home any party favors, and making a hospitable environment for virgin goal scorers.  In order of finish: 1) Hobart—shows that you can go undefeated in the Liberty League, which is quite the feat, without a true target forward or consistent goal scorer as Weisban comes up from the back for his first two goals of the year to win the final; 2) Vassar—Wins the semi with Smith’s first goal supported by good goalkeeping but offense sputtered in the finals in a wet rain as well as a rain of yellow and red cards; 3) SLU—For a team with a bunch of experienced upper classmen, their lack of offensive sync was inexplicable both in the quarters where they prevailed despite being badly outshot, and in the semis where they seemed content to pass the ball around the back as the clock clicked down to the end of their season; 4) RIT—Easily could have been up by two goals on Hobart after first half and will be very scary again next year on offense as they graduate Kouroupas but no one else from up top;  5) Clarkson—Will look to Hobart’s playbook next year as true target forwards are not a necessity to win a championship; and 6) Skidmore—Season on the brink ends with a keeper error and a coaching staff wondering how to replace a boatload of seniors including Akoye, the league’s top goal scorer.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on November 06, 2017, 01:56:37 pm
Hobart draws Buffalo State in the first round. Predictions?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 06, 2017, 01:57:27 pm
Hobart draws Buffalo State in the first round. Predictions?

Hobart 2-1.

Very brash and not based on anything other than inclination, but you asked! ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 06, 2017, 02:08:58 pm
Depends on which Hobart team comes to play, the one that dominated Vassar or the one that lost to Utica.  Hopefully it is the former.  Hobart has tremendous team chemistry going into the Dance.  Vassar doesn't make the tourney as expected.  League showing against UAA, NESCAC, and top SUNYAC teams doomed any LL at large bids.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 06, 2017, 02:58:33 pm
Hobart draws Buffalo State in the first round. Predictions?

Hobart 2-1.

Very brash and not based on anything other than inclination, but you asked! ;)

Buff State leads SUNYAC in yellow cards (2/game), but not sure about fouls/game.
Hobart is second in LL (1.7/game) and average 12 fouls a game

Buff State has allowed 10 goals all season (0.51/game).
Hobart has allowed 13 (three to weaker teams, three are GK mistakes).

Buff State has 29 goals for (but struggled down the stretch to score).
Hobart has 25 goals for (and scored 1/3 of all goals in final five games, including losing to Utica 1:0).

I can't see three goals being scored if these teams play TWO games.

Head says Hobart 0:0 with PKs to Buff State (GK seems more solid).

All this said, I am going with heart for my pick (total homer): Hobart 1:0 in OT.

For those who like to see people 'get stuck in' this will be a game for you.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 06, 2017, 09:25:59 pm
Well we know how Hobart plays and their ability but has anyone seen this Buff State outfit? Does anyone know anything about them? To me it is a total mystery but yea you are probably right that it might be a 0-0 or 1-0 game based on those stats. The question is how did they play Oneonta and Cortland? I think I looked once and the stats were even but who knows how accurate that is.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on November 06, 2017, 09:42:23 pm
Well we know how Hobart plays and their ability but has anyone seen this Buff State outfit? Does anyone know anything about them? To me it is a total mystery but yea you are probably right that it might be a 0-0 or 1-0 game based on those stats. The question is how did they play Oneonta and Cortland? I think I looked once and the stats were even but who knows how accurate that is.

Saw them against Rochester. They are a functional side that doesn't do much wrong, but I don't see them really dominating games, either. I think Hobart has the edge.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on November 08, 2017, 01:26:48 pm
http://saintsathletics.com/news/2017/11/7/dede-named-offensive-player-of-the-year-seven-from-mens-soccer-earn-all-conference-honors.aspx

Dede Gets the MVP.

I think it is a good choice.
This kid has unbelievable poise on the ball.

Please give this man a little help and watch him take the team to great heights.

Lets go Statesmen!!!!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on November 08, 2017, 05:32:24 pm
Congrats to Mr. Dede.  His stats improved mightily after I called him out early in the season.  Reasonable minds could differ between him and Okoye.  However, did the LL powers not realize that SLU was a little better than a .500 team and was at most the 3rd best team in the conference?  How do they get the most LL all star recognition?  Can anyone make the case that after Okoye SLU had the best two forwards in the league?  Under that assumption, with the league's best player on the roster the coaching staff was the worst in the league. Augustine's 2 goals, 4 assists and 9 SOG are anemic.  He didn't even start 5 games.  Don't even know how you explain that to seniors Novas at Vassar or Kouroupos at RIT who shot the lights out during league season.  Last take, while Tyler Gilmore is an excellent defender and offensive threat, he is a junior who missed the last 3 games and had a couple of goals.  Hobart's Hunter Critchlow is a senior on the championship team with twice as many points and was the clear choice as a Hobart player should have received one of the three main awards.     
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: sideshowbob on November 11, 2017, 10:36:13 pm
Great 2-0 win for Hobart over buff state. Tough draw against Messiah tomorrow.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 12, 2017, 10:16:29 am
Great 2-0 win for Hobart over buff state. Tough draw against Messiah tomorrow.

Hobart's goal in the first half (a corner to far post and a header past defender by #26) changed the game.  Until then it was a very even game (and perhaps tilting towards Buffalo State -- who were fast and committing people forward). From then, Buffalo State had to attack more and left big spaces in midfied.  It was intense, and not as foul-laden as I'd expected.  But, the straight red to Buffalo State kid (who, sadly, went out of his way to stomp on a Hobart kid after the ball played away) limited what they could do.  Buffalo State had the better run of play for last 30 minutes, but did not have enough creativity to push past 10 Hobart players behind the ball.  Two great great saves by Buffalo State keeper kept score to 2:0.  The crossbar saved Hobart twice: the first from going behind 1:0, the second from having game tied 1:1. Hobart is stout on defense, but steady pressure on goal is problematic.

Moving on to today's affair, it will be interesting to see if the physicality of Hobart can offset Messiah's play.  It appears that Messiah struggle against physical teams (e.g., Lycoming), and Hobart disrupts fluid teams (e.g., Vassar).  My sense is that refs allow players a bit more leeway to play in tournament games, which will not benefit Messiah at first.

First goal wins this (as Hobart has had trouble coming back when down -- against lesser opponents -- and Messiah won't get two by Hobart's defense). Curious to see how fatigue, cold, and a mediocre turf surface contribute to the game. My head says Messiah will score first, and my heart stays with Hobart. Today, I'm going with heart.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rudy on November 12, 2017, 11:35:05 am
Great 2-0 win for Hobart over buff state. Tough draw against Messiah tomorrow.

Hobart's goal in the first half (a corner to far post and a header past defender by #26) changed the game.  Until then it was a very even game (and perhaps tilting towards Buffalo State -- who were fast and committing people forward). From then, Buffalo State had to attack more and left big spaces in midfied.  It was intense, and not as foul-laden as I'd expected.  But, the straight red to Buffalo State kid (who, sadly, went out of his way to stomp on a Hobart kid after the ball played away) limited what they could do.  Buffalo State had the better run of play for last 30 minutes, but did not have enough creativity to push past 10 Hobart players behind the ball.  Two great great saves by Buffalo State keeper kept score to 2:0.  The crossbar saved Hobart twice: the first from going behind 1:0, the second from having game tied 1:1. Hobart is stout on defense, but steady pressure on goal is problematic.

Moving on to today's affair, it will be interesting to see if the physicality of Hobart can offset Messiah's play.  It appears that Messiah struggle against physical teams (e.g., Lycoming), and Hobart disrupts fluid teams (e.g., Vassar).  My sense is that refs allow players a bit more leeway to play in tournament games, which will not benefit Messiah at first.

First goal wins this (as Hobart has had trouble coming back when down -- against lesser opponents -- and Messiah won't get two by Hobart's defense). Curious to see how fatigue, cold, and a mediocre turf surface contribute to the game. My head says Messiah will score first, and my heart stays with Hobart. Today, I'm going with heart.

It will be interesting to see how Hobart approaches this game. Will they play Messiah straight up or try to pack it in and hope to get a score off free kick or corner where Messiah is more prone to let up a goal.  Basically a bend but don't break approach? Looking at stats against Brandeis Hobart outshot them 18-10 so they do not appear to have sat back in that game. a 2-1 loss. I presume Brandeis was favored in that early season game.  So I don't think we will see a stat line like yesterday Messiah game. 25 shots to 3. We'll see soon enough.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Falconer on November 12, 2017, 06:53:27 pm
Messiah and Hobart have met only once, in the 2010 season opener in Grantham. Hobart dominated the game, outshooting the Falcons 19-10, winning 2-1 and knocking future POY Josh Wood out for the season. A very, very bad night for the Falcons, despite good showings by some freshmen.

Hoping for a better outcome tonight.

Buffalo State and Messiah also have an interesting history. Specifically, a great Haitian player at D1 Buffalo State (Jean-Arnold Tassy) later coached D3 Buffalo State and sent both of his highly talented sons to play at Messiah. Jake Tassy (older) was extraordinarily shift with the ball. I rank him with Dan Wagner (not the Dan Wagner who went into coaching) as the two flashiest Falcons I've ever seen. Chris Tassy was FAST, probably capable of under 50 seconds at 400 meters. Also very tall and highly skilled. An AA forward.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Bartman on November 13, 2017, 08:22:35 am
Congratulations to the Statesmen for the win against Buff State and for a gutsy , intense performance against Messiah last night....Messiah is obviously a highly skilled side, but the Statesmen almost pulled it off on some chances.....my complements to both teams on keeping this fan on the edge of his seat the whole game...good luck to Messiah the rest of the way
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rudy on November 13, 2017, 10:30:57 am
Congratulations to the Statesmen for the win against Buff State and for a gutsy , intense performance against Messiah last night....Messiah is obviously a highly skilled side, but the Statesmen almost pulled it off on some chances.....my complements to both teams on keeping this fan on the edge of his seat the whole game...good luck to Messiah the rest of the way

Hobart was very disciplined and organized. Definitely did what they had to do and came close to pulling out the win . Messiah  missed golden opportunity in first half as described well in the Hobart game recap.  But boy did Hobart come out on fire for the 2nd half putting Messiah on their heels.  A good 10 minute stretch where Messiah could not keep possession and Hobart took it to them.  Glad to get out of Buffalo with that win.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 13, 2017, 08:09:57 pm
Congratulations to the Statesmen for the win against Buff State and for a gutsy , intense performance against Messiah last night....Messiah is obviously a highly skilled side, but the Statesmen almost pulled it off on some chances.....my complements to both teams on keeping this fan on the edge of his seat the whole game...good luck to Messiah the rest of the way

Hobart was very disciplined and organized. Definitely did what they had to do and came close to pulling out the win . Messiah  missed golden opportunity in first half as described well in the Hobart game recap.  But boy did Hobart come out on fire for the 2nd half putting Messiah on their heels.  A good 10 minute stretch where Messiah could not keep possession and Hobart took it to them.  Glad to get out of Buffalo with that win.

Credit to Messiah for absorbing the pressure and imposing themselves on Hobart the last 20 minutes.  Credit to Hobart for staying true to its approach -- attacking the ball in midfield, chasing hard, absorbing pressure with the back line and holding mids, and hoping somehow to score a goal. It could have gone either way.

Next year awaits!
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 08:25:19 pm
I missed this match but am curious how many real threatening chances that both teams had? This would have been a matchup of 2 completely different styles so I wanted to catch the game but was unable to. Any detailed game reports or highlights?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 13, 2017, 09:07:18 pm
I missed this match but am curious how many real threatening chances that both teams had? This would have been a matchup of 2 completely different styles so I wanted to catch the game but was unable to. Any detailed game reports or highlights?

Happy for others to comment, but from where I stood:

Messiah had lots of time on ball: they work for speed advantages on the wings, diagonal passes off central defenders, and when they get frustrated, pump long balls and hope.  Hobart was able to deflect these pretty effectively (though the effort wore at the back line and that was a factor, late).
In the first half, Messiah showed lots of energy and control in the middle of the field. They generated a few half-chances off of corners and often looked threatening as they started their attack but often fizzled in the offensive third with more passing than attacking.

In the second half, their ball control, speed, and willingness to push numbers forward began creating more seams.
Messiah began the half with a good shot to low corner that came from a set piece. Following this, they had to deal with Hobart's pressure and did not do much.
Then, in the last 20' Messiah created three good chances -- a high ball that went to the GK, a driving low shot that seemed to get in but was not ruled a goal, and shot off the the missed clear/scrum that won it. So, four solid shots and a few more half chances

Hobart sat back more than I'd seen, waiting for Messiah to come to mid-line before chasing. 
Their forwards and wings chased well and often disrupted the passing and ball control. In the first half Hobart had several counter attacks that began as midfield take-aways and ended up as half chances.

In the second half, Hobart took it to Messiah for about 15 minutes and created three great chances, including a header (or was it a shot, I don't remember) that went off the post and seemed like it went in, but was not ruled a goal; a zinger that went jusssst wide after a corner was partly cleared, and a play off a direct kick. So, three solid shots and a few more half chances.

Messiah are a great side, more complete a team than Rochester and Brandeis (fellow sweet-16ers).
This said, my homer eyes say that once Hobart adjusted to the realities of Messiah's speed and size, it was an even game, well played.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rudy on November 13, 2017, 09:27:57 pm
I missed this match but am curious how many real threatening chances that both teams had? This would have been a matchup of 2 completely different styles so I wanted to catch the game but was unable to. Any detailed game reports or highlights?

I think Hobart write up captures all the dangerous chances pretty accurately.  In particular first half West got behind defense and was one on one with goalie.  Goalie maybe did enough to force him to push the shot just wide..but I thought for sure that would be a goal.   This team has been resilient all year and found ways to win. Similar to how Tufts always seems to find a way to pull out the win ... including this past weekend in PKs.  So many timely goals this year they are the cardiac kids.

http://www.hwsathletics.com/news/2017/11/12/hobart-soccer-9-falcons-get-late-goal-to-top-statesmen.aspx
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rudy on November 13, 2017, 10:17:05 pm
Bart, is Hobart roster always so large? I counted 34 on current roster. That's rather large.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on November 13, 2017, 10:56:32 pm
Wow..After reading the recap Hobart's season ended with 40 seconds left in regulation. That is a real tough way to end. Besides a strange loss at Utica and a GK error to lose to Cortland, Hobart had not lost since the 1st weekend of the season to Brandeis. A great season for Hobart and to go without a loss in the LL is exceptional. Had the LL done better out of conference than they would have gotten maybe 2 Pool C's in such a weak year overall for bubble teams. Congrats to Hobart on a fin season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Part_Bart on November 14, 2017, 07:18:49 am
Bart, is Hobart roster always so large? I counted 34 on current roster. That's rather large.

I think they have expanded the roster for several reasons. Their pressing style means more subbing.
Their physical play seems to lead to more injuries. It is likely hard to be sure exactly how many of the recruits will actually matriculate. 

A quick check of other LL teams shows Union (35), RPI (33), RIT (31) andSkidmore (31) all with large rosters.  Clarkson lists 30, the rest roster 26-28.  I'm guesstimating that most teams lose two to three players a season due to injury, and a few more likely miss several games IN season for injuries.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Falconer on November 14, 2017, 09:15:28 am
Congratulations to the Statesmen for the win against Buff State and for a gutsy , intense performance against Messiah last night....Messiah is obviously a highly skilled side, but the Statesmen almost pulled it off on some chances.....my complements to both teams on keeping this fan on the edge of his seat the whole game...good luck to Messiah the rest of the way

Yes, indeed, Hobart played an excellent game and nearly pulled it off. Both teams had a couple of terrific scoring opportunities that they failed to convert. Hobart dominated in stretches, Messiah in others. One of the ways to beat Messiah's one-touch game is to use lots of pressure, and that's what Hobart did--and very cleanly. They are talented, and they implemented their style with diligence, intelligence, and discipline. They absolutely belonged in the tournament and almost made the Sweet Sixteen. Congratulations to the Statesmen for a highly successful season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on November 14, 2017, 10:43:06 am
Hobart represented the LL well, beat Buff St (3rd best SUNYAC team) and held their own against a good Messiah side. Last year they won the Regular Season for the first time since 2008, and this year repeated a Regular Season title adding the LL Playoff Championship and a good showing in the NCAA. Something is brewing there and wouldn't be surprised to see them outdoing themselves again next season.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: rudy on November 14, 2017, 10:58:41 am
Hobart represented the LL well, beat Buff St (3rd best SUNYAC team) and held their own against a good Messiah side. Last year they won the Regular Season for the first time since 2008, and this year repeated a Regular Season title adding the LL Playoff Championship and a good showing in the NCAA. Something is brewing there and wouldn't be surprised to see them outdoing themselves again next season.

I noticed they had a few new England prep school players on the roster. That's a good way to get some talented international players as well. I wonder if they have a history of recruiting these players in just more recently.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on January 09, 2018, 04:06:29 pm
Hobart is a class program and will be quite a challenge for the rest of the league for years to come with their solid recruiting and coaching staff.
The Statesmen held their own and out played messiah for major parts of their game in the dance.

Team just needs consistent scoring and it will be tough to move them from atop the league standings.

Going undefeated in the league throughout the playoffs is not done often and they managed that feat with their feet.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on January 09, 2018, 04:07:08 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P86wWY077qY&t=1394s

St. Lawrence University Saints Football Circa 2000 (Defending Champs).

For Old School Saints and classic fans.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on January 10, 2018, 03:34:56 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P86wWY077qY&t=1394s

St. Lawrence University Saints Football Circa 2000 (Defending Champs).

For Old School Saints and classic fans.


Ah the old video system at the beginning of the decade...Forgot about all that..Good Stuff Saint..
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on January 10, 2018, 04:09:18 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P86wWY077qY&t=1394s

St. Lawrence University Saints Football Circa 2000 (Defending Champs).

For Old School Saints and classic fans.


Ah the old video system at the beginning of the decade...Forgot about all that..Good Stuff Saint..

Thanks Mr. R.
I will dig into the archives and try to locate the classic Williams @ SLU 1998 clash of the Titans on a brisk fall afternoon.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on January 11, 2018, 05:05:18 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P86wWY077qY&t=1394s

St. Lawrence University Saints Football Circa 2000 (Defending Champs).

For Old School Saints and classic fans.


Ah the old video system at the beginning of the decade...Forgot about all that..Good Stuff Saint..

Thanks Mr. R.
I will dig into the archives and try to locate the classic Williams @ SLU 1998 clash of the Titans on a brisk fall afternoon.


Saint u wuld be my hero if you culd find video of that game. "A brisk fall afternoon"?????...lmao IT WAS A BLIZZARD...I just assumed there was no video of that game because of the year and the weather...I have said this many times but IMO that Elite 8 matchup of Williams at SLU in 1998 was the 2 best teams in the country that year. That game was the Final in my mind..After watching the 1998 NCAA Final 4 the other 3 teams were NO MATCH for SLU and Williams that year..Of all the dispoointments Williams have had in the NCAA Tournament over the years I really think 1998 was the worst..After "surviving" in Canton,NY that year Williams flat out should have won the 1998 NCAA Championship. 1st of all they should have hosted the Final 4 not OWU. They lost 1-0 to OWU on a bad GK'ing error by GK Ryan Spicer( Yes for all you political followers that is Sean Spicey's brother) and just could not score against OWU..They had them pinned in all game and were frustrated time and time again. The talent level was not even comparable. I mean they beat 1998 SLU who IIRC had basically the same team come back in 1999 the year they went undefeated and won the 1999 NCAA Championship and were absolutely unstoppable. Just a shame but it is what it is...Still I would love it if you could dig up that masterpiece...
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on January 11, 2018, 07:37:18 pm
Saint---Seriously not trying to rub it in but maybe ask Durocher while you are on this other mission if he has a copy of the video of another classic 2004 NCAA Sweet 16 game between SLU v Williams which Williams were lucky to hold on and win in OT. 2 VERY good teams that day as well. That year was the year that Williams happened to catch SLU in one of their worst times in program history when a SLU player(sorry do not remember his name)was found dead the same week of the game. Just an awful situation and you could tell SLU's players were seriously distracted but even still they had numerous chances to win that match...Of course after such a great win by Williams over SLU on Saturday, Williams proceeds to dominate and lose to Geneseo St in the Elite 8. IIRC they had a goal called back but just another disappointing NCAA loss for Williams.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on January 12, 2018, 07:44:27 am
Wee needed to drop that game against Williams to have the PAIN necessary to win a title.
Williams is a class, class program.
They went to the finals in 1993 and then won it all in 95.
Infact I think the Seniors we played in Canton 98 were freshmen when Williams got their crown and it showed.
They played like Champions on the road against a team boasting a good defense and a future MLS starting goalie and came out on top.
Williams should have def won the title that year.
They were talented enough to do it.
I think that when a good team feels enough pain in a loss, it helps them go to the next stage themselves (@least in the 90s) :
Pistons got pissed after losing to the Celtics and then got their Chip.
Bulls got mad about losing to Bad Boys, then got their Chip.
Williams got theirs after heart breaking loss in Finals 2 yrs before.
SLU won the year after the epic battle against Williams in Quaters at home.
Messiah won a year after losing a heart breaker to to SLU in Quaters at home
Richard Stocton won 2 years after being hit hard by Wheaton in the Final 4.

Our game is 2 percent physical and 98 mental :)
In 98, SLU had just lost its 3x AA midfielder to season ending injury, but you are Right Mr. R.
The formation and personel adjustment  changes for the Williams game were kept for 99.

I will make it my mission to get that 98 game, seems I only have regular season games that year.
The SLU program has been taping games since early 90s.
Our film and scouting sessions were a big part of what the team did.

The 2004 game from what I hear was a classic also.
After my time though.
Two great teams battling in a game that tested them both.

Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Ommadawn on January 12, 2018, 08:55:50 am
.After "surviving" in Canton,NY that year Williams flat out should have won the 1998 NCAA Championship. 1st of all they should have hosted the Final 4 not OWU. They lost 1-0 to OWU on a bad GK'ing error by GK Ryan Spicer( Yes for all you political followers that is Sean Spicey's brother) and just could not score against OWU..They had them pinned in all game and were frustrated time and time again. The talent level was not even comparable.

Thank you for this trivia gem, Mr. Right! 

"It was the biggest attendance of any match in NCAA Division III history. Period."  ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on January 25, 2018, 12:53:53 pm
.After "surviving" in Canton,NY that year Williams flat out should have won the 1998 NCAA Championship. 1st of all they should have hosted the Final 4 not OWU. They lost 1-0 to OWU on a bad GK'ing error by GK Ryan Spicer( Yes for all you political followers that is Sean Spicey's brother) and just could not score against OWU..They had them pinned in all game and were frustrated time and time again. The talent level was not even comparable.

Thank you for this trivia gem, Mr. Right! 

"It was the biggest attendance of any match in NCAA Division III history. Period."  ;)

The funny thing is Ryan who is Spicey's brother is like the nicest kid you could ever meet. Super laid back and a tremendous athlete.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on January 25, 2018, 02:05:13 pm
.After "surviving" in Canton,NY that year Williams flat out should have won the 1998 NCAA Championship. 1st of all they should have hosted the Final 4 not OWU. They lost 1-0 to OWU on a bad GK'ing error by GK Ryan Spicer( Yes for all you political followers that is Sean Spicey's brother) and just could not score against OWU..They had them pinned in all game and were frustrated time and time again. The talent level was not even comparable.

Thank you for this trivia gem, Mr. Right! 

"It was the biggest attendance of any match in NCAA Division III history. Period."  ;)

The funny thing is Ryan who is Spicey's brother is like the nicest kid you could ever meet. Super laid back and a tremendous athlete.

Ryan was the goalie for the back-to-back RI state champion Barrington HS (my hometown) teams from 1996-97, which were probably the best HS teams in RI history.  Those Barrington teams also had Brian Purcell (1980 birth year) who was a member of the 1997 U-17 U.S. World Cup squad.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on January 25, 2018, 04:29:02 pm

The funny thing is Ryan who is Spicey's brother is like the nicest kid you could ever meet. Super laid back and a tremendous athlete.

That is too funny. They didn't have any trouble spelling his name in the Williams newspaper, did they? ;)
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Kick-grass on April 09, 2018, 03:27:56 pm
Clarkson will have a new head coach this Fall. Great way to start some talk about the Liberty League 2018 season. What are some predictions and insights on the teams this Fall?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on May 23, 2018, 02:23:49 pm
I will have my predictions in a week or two when it is clear who exactly will be showing up on campus.

In the meantime, here is the schedule for the Scarlet and Brown in 2018

https://saintsathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on May 24, 2018, 12:57:23 pm
I will have my predictions in a week or two when it is clear who exactly will be showing up on campus.

In the meantime, here is the schedule for the Scarlet and Brown in 2018

https://saintsathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc


Saint,


No offense but for a program like SLU that was unafraid to play anyone anywhere that schedule is weak sauce. Where did Plattsburgh St go? Ok they are in the Oneonta tournament but not playing Oneonta. SUNY Canton, Alfred, Heidelberg and most likely two very average teams in the Oneonta tournament. I only see Cortland as a good non-conference game on that schedule.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on May 24, 2018, 02:05:18 pm
I will have my predictions in a week or two when it is clear who exactly will be showing up on campus.

In the meantime, here is the schedule for the Scarlet and Brown in 2018

https://saintsathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc


Saint,


No offense but for a program like SLU that was unafraid to play anyone anywhere that schedule is weak sauce. Where did Plattsburgh St go? Ok they are in the Oneonta tournament but not playing Oneonta. SUNY Canton, Alfred, Heidelberg and most likely two very average teams in the Oneonta tournament. I only see Cortland as a good non-conference game on that schedule.
No offense taken.
Infact I pretty much side with your assessment. I do believe we are playing Oneonta though.
I would have liked to see a bit more competitive schedule and one or two more non-conference games as well.
This will be a big year for the boys.
We have an all time Saint in his senior year and a pretty deep  senior class, after last season though, I don't want to get my hopes up too much.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on May 26, 2018, 11:00:13 pm
I think SLU would have schedule a few more non-conference games but the current financial situation for the university is, let's say, less than ideal.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on May 29, 2018, 02:36:57 pm
Starting the 2018 season talk early.  Good.  This is a league that needs a revival after attaining one quality non-conference win last season for the entire league, Hobart's first round NCAA victory.  Of course that needs to be balanced with their loss to E-8 doormat Utica.  Perhaps you all can provide some insight on recruiting.  Ithaca and Vassar have posted their classes on their soccer twitter threads.  Ithaca is bringing in 15!!!!!  I am not familiar with any of the players coming into Ithaca or Vassar but perhaps some of you do as well as how some of the other teams are doing recruiting wise.  I wonder how many Clarkson recruits followed Coach Taylor to his alma mater. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on May 29, 2018, 02:46:25 pm
Interesting point about Coach Taylor's recruits. I wonder as well.

I know that SLU plans on bringing a few more than normal.
I think part of this is being weary of injuries that has affected the team in big ways recently.

The team will sink or swim on seniors as I have said before, but I would say this will likely be Coach Tosh's best recruiting class (on paper) since he has been at the helm.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on May 29, 2018, 03:02:26 pm
Saint:  At least on paper SLU has the most quality in its returning players with the two teams ahead of them, Hobart and Vassar, having lost some impact seniors.  Do you have a link to, or names of, the SLU recruits.  The Ithaca players have some USSDA experience while it looks like the Vassar players have none.  Not to be an USSDA snob but I think it is one important gauge of the strength of a recruit. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: OldNed on May 29, 2018, 03:33:44 pm
Starting the 2018 season talk early.  Good.  This is a league that needs a revival after attaining one quality non-conference win last season for the entire league, Hobart's first round NCAA victory.  Of course that needs to be balanced with their loss to E-8 doormat Utica.  Perhaps you all can provide some insight on recruiting.  Ithaca and Vassar have posted their classes on their soccer twitter threads.  Ithaca is bringing in 15!!!!!  I am not familiar with any of the players coming into Ithaca or Vassar but perhaps some of you do as well as how some of the other teams are doing recruiting wise.  I wonder how many Clarkson recruits followed Coach Taylor to his alma mater.

Your post made me curious about Ithaca as one of my son's old teammates plays there, and I took a look at their twitter feed a bit.  Apparently Ithaca tied both D1 transitioning to D3 Hartwick and D1 Cornell 1-1 in spring games this year - great results for them, even if they were spring games.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on May 29, 2018, 03:39:25 pm
I am not sure SLU has posted names in the last few seasons.
I think this might be the preference of our new head coach. Not sure I disagree with the approach.
Should be a diverse and international group of kids from what I am hearing.
Saints have always been an international team so its good to get there again.



Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: CU_GKnight on May 30, 2018, 06:07:34 am
I would not be surprised if Clarkson lost a few recruits, but I would be surprised if many followed Coach Taylor.  I know the recruiting class that Coach Taylor assembled was his most geographically diverse with a couple players from the west coast.  I think it would be more likely that they would find another school closer to home than jump to Plattsburgh.  Clarkson is a very good school academically and is in the top tier for National Universities while Plattsburgh is in the bottom half for Regional Universities.  I just don't see a lot of players (unless they are solely focused on soccer) jumping from a highly rated private university to a lower tier state university, especially if you have to pay out of state tuition.  Also, the primary majors at each school don't align very well so I am not sure how easy it would be maintain the same major if they already had decided on one.  I have not met the new coach yet, but will see if I can get an idea of what has changed with regard to the incoming class if I do get the chance.  Also, a lot of these recruits would have likely been identified as juniors, when the new coach was an assistant to Coach Taylor, so they may already have some familiarity with him.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on May 30, 2018, 03:17:19 pm
All good takes.  Coach Taylor has such an infectious personality so I was curious.  There are certainly significant differences between the schools.  I spent a little more time looking at Ithaca's class.  Two transfers in addition to the 15 recruits, a Division 1 redshirt from Binghamton who has some USSDA experience, and Manhattanville's second leading scorer last year as a freshman.  Don't know how you integrate 17 new players.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on June 18, 2018, 05:28:29 pm
Clarkson's recruits are identified in their twitter feed.  No one familiar to me. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 09, 2018, 11:58:07 am
Fortunately I have no problem talking to myself.  Thanks to Coach Clinton and RPI for scheduling the best opening day match in the LL, an away night game against Rochester.  After not making the playoffs last year the Engineers will have a chip on their shoulders.  Hobart's pre-season Portugese friendlies do not bode well for the rest of the league.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 09, 2018, 08:41:59 pm
I'll be your Huckleberry.

I  agree RPI did have a mysteriously off year, but I expect them to get in this year.
I also agree that Hobart might be a bit too hot still for the rest of the league, we shall see.
SLU is coming into the season after a down year, but might have the best senior class in the last few years as well.

Is it pre-season yet?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 10, 2018, 11:46:18 am
Almost.  With 5 returning all league players including 3 first teamers SLU has an edge over the rest of the league.  Can they keep up the the Hobart horde approach to soccer is the question.  With wave after wave of fresh legs Hobart was able to outlast many a team last year. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 19, 2018, 03:05:59 pm
Hobart is by far the team to beat this season.
I should be noted that this team went undefeated in league play all the way through the playoffs which they won.

It is also my belief that they gave Messiah all they could handle last year.

Looking for a really good season overall in the league as Skidmore and RPI will look to bounce back and RIT and Vassar will get better as well.

My sources tell me that SLU has a solid recruiting class coming in, including the team's first Brazilian (if memory serves me right).


Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 20, 2018, 05:47:30 pm
Hobart's freshmen are now posted.  With 28 coming back not much room so a small class.  At least one with DA experience.  It seems that Hobart and Ithaca have the strongest recruiting classes of the schools that have identified their recruits. Don't know about Skidmore and RPI bouncing back.  Skidmore loses one of the top scorers in the league and RPI had difficulty scoring all last season.  I agree RIT improves but Vassar has some big holes in the midfield to fill.   
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on August 28, 2018, 10:56:25 am
Clarkson, Vassar and Bard rosters are up. Clarkson has eight freshmen, Vassar added 10, and Bard has 11.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on August 28, 2018, 04:50:53 pm
SLU's roster is up as well.  Tosh went international this year. 
Title: R5 e: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 29, 2018, 11:51:16 am
Looks like Tosh is going to move to the Hobart horde approach to soccer given a 16 member first year class.  If you can't beat them....  I don't know how you convince 16 players, including many internationals, to come to a program with 9 returning starters including 5 all league players and a total roster size in the mid-30's.  Kudos on what must have been an excellent recruiting pitch.  Last year it appeared that physical size mattered, this year roster size.  There is also an emphasis on multi-sport players.  Historically some of the most impactful LL players have played multiple sports in HS.  This wouldn't be true for USSDA recruits but they are few and far between in this year's LL recruiting classes.
Title: Re: R5 e: Liberty League
Post by: Falconer on August 29, 2018, 02:08:29 pm
Looks like Tosh is going to move to the Hobart horde approach to soccer given a 16 member first year class.  If you can't beat them....  I don't know how you convince 16 players, including many internationals, to come to a program with 9 returning starters including 5 all league players and a total roster size in the mid-30's.  Kudos on what must have been an excellent recruiting pitch.  Last year it appeared that physical size mattered, this year roster size.  There is also an emphasis on multi-sport players.  Historically some of the most impactful LL players have played multiple sports in HS.  This wouldn't be true for USSDA recruits but they are few and far between in this year's LL recruiting classes.

Same story (without foreign players) is true for Lycoming and (with foreign players) NPU. Their rosters are just huge, with tons of freshmen. It certainly seems to work for them, but it's hard for me to comprehend at the basic human level. Why would a guy want to stay with a program where he just doesn't get to play--I mean, not at all? Do most of those guys get meaningful minutes? How many of them (say) get to play in the latter part of the first half, with their team up just one goal? 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: EB2319 on August 29, 2018, 02:25:25 pm
The SLU roster of internationals is really only 2.  The rest, while "from" abroad, attended US high schools.  Not as hard a sale if they're already here and want to stay here. 
Title: Re: R5 e: Liberty League
Post by: TyWebb on August 29, 2018, 02:30:30 pm
Last year it appeared that physical size mattered, this year roster size.
I second your comment on roster sizes. I was perusing some rosters of teams where I know some of the incoming players. I was surprised to see the large size of their freshmen class: Keene St - 24, Babson -15, F&M - 14, Dickinson - 12, Gordon - 12 just to name a few. I'd be curious to hear from those who have followed D3 soccer more than me if roster sizes are expanding in general or this is just particular teams restocking from attrition?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on August 30, 2018, 07:48:04 am
Ithaca: 33 on roster, 15 freshmen
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: EB2319 on August 30, 2018, 11:26:53 am
Back in my day, we carried high 20's, but not all traveled and a few didn't even dress at home. But they were "on the team".  Our HS teams today are no different - varsity carrying 25, JV 27, Freshman 28.  As a coach, I don't know how you manage a training session with those numbers.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on August 30, 2018, 02:43:53 pm
I guess there is no more time to wait before making league predictions.

Now we have  a 6 team LL Playoff field, I see it playing out like this.

#6- RPI- I picked them to make it last year and they did not, I just cannot see this program missing out on the playoffs in back to back years.

#5- Ithaca- Getting back two big pieces on offense who missed basically all last season should help, also they have a year to become adjusted to what is required in this tough league.

#4-  Vassar- Could be a tough year for the Brewers, but thier pedigree and recent form over the past few seasons means they wont drop any further than this.


#3- SLU- Cannot recall the Saints ever having this big a recruiting class, this should help them to bounce back after a seriously dissapointing , by their standards, season last year. Also have perhaps the best player in the league back for his senior year.

#2- RIT- This team seems to be hitting new heights. Had a bad start last season yet lmost turned it around at the end.


#1- Hobart- I feel like it has to be unanamous after such an incredible performance last year, but teams will be gunning for them this year.


Apologies to Skidmore, as I had RPI edge them by a hair.


Bard, Clarkson and Union will compete, but I just dont think they will have enough to make top 6.

Would love for one or two of them to prove me wrong, then the season would really be crazy.
Title: Re: R5 e: Liberty League
Post by: BillWill on August 31, 2018, 08:42:06 am
Last year it appeared that physical size mattered, this year roster size.
I second your comment on roster sizes. I was perusing some rosters of teams where I know some of the incoming players. I was surprised to see the large size of their freshmen class: Keene St - 24, Babson -15, F&M - 14, Dickinson - 12, Gordon - 12 just to name a few. I'd be curious to hear from those who have followed D3 soccer more than me if roster sizes are expanding in general or this is just particular teams restocking from attrition?

As a reference, F&M had 12 freshman on roster last year. Four never played and did not return. They currently list only six sophomores on current roster. 50% attrition.
Title: Re: R5 e: Liberty League
Post by: soccerfan111 on August 31, 2018, 08:56:31 am
Looks like Tosh is going to move to the Hobart horde approach to soccer given a 16 member first year class.  If you can't beat them....  I don't know how you convince 16 players, including many internationals, to come to a program with 9 returning starters including 5 all league players and a total roster size in the mid-30's.  Kudos on what must have been an excellent recruiting pitch.  Last year it appeared that physical size mattered, this year roster size.  There is also an emphasis on multi-sport players.  Historically some of the most impactful LL players have played multiple sports in HS.  This wouldn't be true for USSDA recruits but they are few and far between in this year's LL recruiting classes.

An outside perspective makes me think that Toshack was either influenced by admissions (bring all of these kids in) or wasn't as active recruiting and decided to bring all of them in. Doing the latter, he can then trim down through kids quitting or cutting after the season.

From 2017's roster, there were 6 student-athletes that didn't return from the previous season (that could have). This is not all on Toshack but he needs to get guys that are going to stay 4 years. At the division 3 level (magnified at SLU b/c of location/academics/conference), it is important to get recruits that are a good fit for the program and will stay.

2016 to 2017- 14 out of 26 ; 12 did not return (1st year with Toshack's recruits having a chance to return)
2015 to 2016- 19 out of 23 ; 4 did not return (Toshack's first coaching year)
2014 to 2015- 21 out of 24 ; 3 did not return
2013 to 2014 - 22 out of 23; 1 did not return
2012 to 2013 - 16 out of 22 ; 6 did not return (3 of the 6 were rising SRs)
2011- to 2013 - 19 out of 24 ; 5 did not return

I'm rooting for them to turn it around this year. The trend isn't going the right way and need a big year to get the ship heading the right direction.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on August 31, 2018, 09:15:22 am
RPI brings in a class of 12 with 4 freshman goalies that are 6'4 190 clones of each other.  With a returning junior starting captain goalie I just don't get it.  Maybe one of these 4 will get significant minutes over the next couple of years.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on August 31, 2018, 12:37:17 pm
RPI brings in a class of 12 with 4 freshman goalies that are 6'4 190 clones of each other.  With a returning junior starting captain goalie I just don't get it.  Maybe one of these 4 will get significant minutes over the next couple of years.

Agreed that is overkill but I imagine RPI's returning GK's job is not very safe for Clinton to bring in 4 GK's. When I saw RPI last year I was not impressed by their keeper all that much. That being said for RPI to get back to the top of the LL and even NCAA's they have to have the best GK in the league. In Clinton's system like Wesleyan in Nescac it us imperative to have a serious GK back there. In Wesleyan and RPI's best seasons they had amazing keepers who would keep their respective teams in games by making incredible saves and sometimes making 15-20 saves in games v top competition. With RPI heading to UR tonight we will see soon enough. If UR would stop charging $ to stream games I would have tuned in a bit tonight.

I agree with Saints predictions and agree RIT finished the year strong but not sure they are #2 just yet. Hobart should be #1 but Griffin teams tend to fade when big expectations are levied on them. I agree Skidmore and Clarkson will drop off. Ithaca will jump up but my surprise pick just a bunch will be Union
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: d3d3d3 on September 03, 2018, 11:22:29 am
Liberty League squads went 15-4-1 on opening weekend. Not too shabby. Half of those losses belong to RPI.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Caz Bombers on September 03, 2018, 12:22:42 pm
I watched Vassar clobber the defending Skyline champ (and preseason #1 pick) Mount Saint Mary 4-0 on the road last evening. Vassar had about 97 percent of the possession it seemed like, and was bigger/faster/stronger/deeper/more skilled at all 11 positions.

The Skyline is not a strong conference at all, granted, and MSMC looked kinda awful, but Vassar seems pretty good. They have Manhattanville next, probably another trouncing, but 3 of their next 4 are against solid opponents - we'll learn about the Brewers then.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 03, 2018, 02:13:56 pm
I think Hobart's 1-0-1 start is a really good sign. They have brought back much of the talent that won the LL in 2017. The Salisbury W and St.Mary's draw are a good sign as they are both usually decent teams and more importantly Hobart usually starts slow under Griffin. It would be nice to see them rolling into conference play. Both Skidmore and Union lost to New Paltz State who have either really improved and maybe get to the Top 4 in the SUNYAC(SUNYAC Coaches did not predict that in their pre-season poll) or Skidmore and Union will be dropping off. We knew Skidmore graduated 2 studs that cannot be replaced right away so they would drop out of the Top 6 but I thought Union would be able to compete for that 6th Play-off spot. They still could I suppose but with Clarkson getting 2 HUGE wins this weekend over very average teams to start 2-0-0 I think they will jump both Skidmore and Union in 2018. Clarkson I thought might struggle a bit with their coach leaving but they were so young last year and did not graduate much if anything from their LL Playoff appearance in 2017 maybe they will make a go of it this season with the former Coach's recruits.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 03, 2018, 02:25:24 pm
I forgot RPI...Predictably they start 0-2-0 and were shut out in both games..They had 13 SOG Total in the 2 games and their opponents had 11. They did lose to 2 tough teams in Nazareth and Rochester but some things just never change. If RPI cannot get the ball in the net again this year their results will not change from 2017
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: deutschfan on September 03, 2018, 05:18:00 pm
Mr. Right--Good to have your insightful comments back again.  At this point we still don't have a clue about the overall strength of the league.  RPI played only ranked team and lost a heartbreaker.  Sometimes teams respond to such adversity by crushing their next opponent, others collapse in dismay.  RPI chose the latter.  As you noted RPI's strength has never been scoring goals which explains why they recruited 4 goalies???!!!! If the SUNYAC pollsters are right a bottom half team put two losses on mid-level LL teams.  Nothing much heard from the SLU crowd after a season opening two wins because against each opponent they were two goals worse than Clarkson.  Agree after last season's start that Hobart's start is encouraging.  Other than Hobart all of the remaining undefeated LL teams are still question marks.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 04, 2018, 10:28:49 am
Thanks...Out of curiosity I took a look at New Paltz roster and some highlights and they seem to me to be a decent outfit. They have been scoring goals at an impressive clip and I believe their #10 has 4 goals in 3 games already. They will play NYU and Vassar before SUNYAC play begins. They win those 2 games and they will start to get on their conference foes radar. Defensively it seems they leak goals so they need to clean that up but scoring 11 goals in 3 games against decent competition always gets my attention.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on September 04, 2018, 11:04:27 am
Thanks...Out of curiosity I took a look at New Paltz roster and some highlights and they seem to me to be a decent outfit. They have been scoring goals at an impressive clip and I believe their #10 has 4 goals in 3 games already. They will play NYU and Vassar before SUNYAC play begins. They win those 2 games and they will start to get on their conference foes radar. Defensively it seems they leak goals so they need to clean that up but scoring 11 goals in 3 games against decent competition always gets my attention.

I agree on your assessment of New Paltz so far this year.  They can be a hit or miss side, but are located in an ideal spot, with tons of excellent players within roughly an hour radius:  Hudson Valley, LaGrange, Capital District, etc.  Not everyone can go to Vassar, RPI, Union, Skidmore, or play D-1, so some years they are going to have a strong roster.  The Capital District has (or had at the beginning of this decade) a very strong U-23 summer league (in which one of my sons played for Bethlehem Knights), and the depth and quality of college age soccer players is/was impressive.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 04, 2018, 11:14:48 am
Agreed..The Capital District has always been a soccer hotbed and you are correct that New Paltz should be able to get some pretty good players. The coach has also been successful as he started the program at Sage and after 5 years got them into the NCAA'S. He assisted former Williams GK Eric Watson when he was Head Coach at New Paltz 10 years ago in what was a some very strong New Paltz sides. Watson left for the Utica job and turned them around as well but has since disappeared since leaving Utica. Maybe he switched careers? Not sure
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: 1970s NESCAC Player on September 04, 2018, 11:21:40 am
Agreed..The Capital District has always been a soccer hotbed and you are correct that New Paltz should be able to get some pretty good players. The coach has also been successful as he started the program at Sage and after 5 years got them into the NCAA'S. He assisted former Williams GK Eric Watson when he was Head Coach at New Paltz 10 years ago in what was a some very strong New Paltz sides. Watson left for the Utica job and turned them around as well but has since disappeared since leaving Utica. Maybe he switched careers? Not sure

Did Watson's successor at Utica end up at Endicott?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 04, 2018, 01:51:40 pm
As a member of the SLU crowd, I will say that the team played well this weekend overall.  Controlled possession like they usually do.  The performance of this team this year will obviously rely on the veterans, as Dede and McNamee had a very good weekend.  The backline had a good game against Heidelberg, but struggled a bit against Alfred.  The backs looked fine, but I'm still a bit worried about CB when it comes to the counter.  The squad is deep this  year so we definitely haven't seen all the squad has to offer.  The freshman Zaccolaro impressed and I think he will play a big factor.  Augustine notched a nice goal so I hope he can keep pace this year.  He's started strong in years past and then tapered off halfway through the season.   Ultimately, like most years, if the team avoids any major injuries they will compete.  I still think Hobart is the team to beat.  Big game against Oneonta on Friday so I think we'll get a good sense of the squad after that one. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Saint of Old on September 04, 2018, 11:53:25 pm
Totally agree.
You cannot judge the SLU team until after the weekend game against Oneonta.

The senior class had a good weekend and will need to continue to do the same for the team to be good this year.

I thought it was interesting that Dede scored what I think is his 11th or 12th collegiate goal over the weekend and atleast 10 of those were game winners or game tying goals. In addition to being a dominant player he scores timely goals.

Clarkson really surprised me. I did not have them as making the LL playoffs but I might have to reassess aftter their start.

I dont think they have the most challenging schedule, but I look forward to what they will give the league this year.
RPI not looking too good at the moment, but that could change with a good weekend.

Union was rocked by New Paltz, but it is much better to lose to a good team than beating CupCake University 10-0 before conference play begins.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 05, 2018, 12:24:50 pm
Hope some Saints fans can give me some info on something I have noticed going thru their roster. I am very curious on #19 Soph Sam Sapner. Looks like a starting defender since his arrival last year but IMPRESSIVELY he was named a Captain as a SOPH. That is something I have not seen IN YEARS. You would see this sometimes in the 80's and early 90's or maybe on very weak teams where a SOPH might be their best player. St.Lawrence is a different animal and are such a solid program so for them to name this kid a Captain say's A TON about this kid. He must be a tremendous leader. Comments on him if any of you know this kid or at the very least what is he like as a player? 

BTW big weekend for SLU going down to Oneonta. Should be a good predictor of SLU's 2018 season and a good prep for Conference play. If they can beat Oneonta on the road that could be their biggest and most important win in a couple years.

One more thing I noticed SLU is playing 15 games this season. This seems like less games in years past. Anything on this?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 05, 2018, 08:25:50 pm
Hope some Saints fans can give me some info on something I have noticed going thru their roster. I am very curious on #19 Soph Sam Sapner. Looks like a starting defender since his arrival last year but IMPRESSIVELY he was named a Captain as a SOPH. That is something I have not seen IN YEARS. You would see this sometimes in the 80's and early 90's or maybe on very weak teams where a SOPH might be their best player. St.Lawrence is a different animal and are such a solid program so for them to name this kid a Captain say's A TON about this kid. He must be a tremendous leader. Comments on him if any of you know this kid or at the very least what is he like as a player? 

BTW big weekend for SLU going down to Oneonta. Should be a good predictor of SLU's 2018 season and a good prep for Conference play. If they can beat Oneonta on the road that could be their biggest and most important win in a couple years.

One more thing I noticed SLU is playing 15 games this season. This seems like less games in years past. Anything on this?

As for Sapnar he played like a veteran last year as a freshman.   He was rather aggressively recruited and now we see why.  I noticed that he was a bit more special than most freshman during the game against Oneonta last year.  He's big, fast and composed on the ball.  The squad has been kind of starved for a true leader the last year or two and he simply filled a void with his hunger and determination.   He reminds me of Dan Hunt.   

As for the schedule, I'm pretty sure it has a lot to do with the budget.  The university's finances are not in the best shape right now, or at least they weren't during the last spring semester.  There was a huge donation made for Appleton renovations but I don't know if it's done anything to assuage the trepidation over the overall budget. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 04:19:55 pm
Big goal for SLU to go up 1-0 on Oneonta...Scrum off a corner and a failed clearance was all it took. Can they hold this?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 07, 2018, 04:20:59 pm
Should have had one before that.  Dede had a really nice shot on goal off a free kick but it looked like the keeper just got a piece to push it off the post.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: EB2319 on September 07, 2018, 04:30:47 pm
I like the looks of this SLU team, but man oh man does Oneonta play direct.  U-G-L-Y.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 04:36:01 pm
Ref calling it tight which favors SLU...Hate that set piece going backwards...get it in the box
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 04:39:48 pm
I always get the feeling SLU is in a 3-1-3-3 with a diamond but they all interchange so well it is really tough on the stream to see what they are playing.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: EB2319 on September 07, 2018, 04:59:31 pm
I don't understand this Oneonta keeper Giordanno. Appears to have been pretty highly touted coming out of high school.  Spends freshman year at Loyola, Sophomore year at Buffalo and then transfers yet again to Oneonta Junior year.  What's the end game here? Clearly soccer was/is his priority. To each their own I guess.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:03:54 pm
U-G-L-Y.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqn7vXeVCLE

Couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 05:14:46 pm
I don't understand this Oneonta keeper Giordanno. Appears to have been pretty highly touted coming out of high school.  Spends freshman year at Loyola, Sophomore year at Buffalo and then transfers yet again to Oneonta Junior year.  What's the end game here? Clearly soccer was/is his priority. To each their own I guess.

How tall is he? He looks 5'9 at best but maybe its the stream
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: SandyMac on September 07, 2018, 05:18:04 pm
SLU looking calm and confident in possession, but the wheels fall off in the final third. Too many hopeless balls over the top. Also, it’s pretty clear that they’re not adjusted to the turf. Hopefully they trained on it this week, but maybe not.

On another note, Dede is class. Clearly a cut above most of the others in the field.

Hot take here, but this Oneonta bench almost reminds me of an Amherst team. Bad look.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 07, 2018, 05:19:16 pm


Hot take here, but this Oneonta bench almost reminds me of an Amherst team. Bad look.

I don't think we're quite there yet, especially after 2013.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 05:22:53 pm
Oneonta starting to grow into the game..Still not many dangerous chances yet...Isn't this where SLU was giving up goals last year...See if 2018 is a different beast
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:29:26 pm
Was just about to say that I am impressed by SLU playing it out from the back. Then the 'keeper takes a nice big hoof.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:31:58 pm
PK to Oneonta. Kid made the most of it but it was a silly foul.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:32:52 pm
Saved!

Not a great hit, but good reactions by the 'keeper.

Background comment on the SLU goalie "that's the first penalty he's saved in three years."
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on September 07, 2018, 05:33:20 pm
I don't understand this Oneonta keeper Giordanno. Appears to have been pretty highly touted coming out of high school.  Spends freshman year at Loyola, Sophomore year at Buffalo and then transfers yet again to Oneonta Junior year.  What's the end game here? Clearly soccer was/is his priority. To each their own I guess.

Maybe relevant to the spirit of D3 discussion???  The bouncing around that we see with some frequency in D3 for the apparent sole purpose of pursuing soccer "careers" seems quite germane.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:34:39 pm
I don't understand this Oneonta keeper Giordanno. Appears to have been pretty highly touted coming out of high school.  Spends freshman year at Loyola, Sophomore year at Buffalo and then transfers yet again to Oneonta Junior year.  What's the end game here? Clearly soccer was/is his priority. To each their own I guess.

Maybe relevant to the spirit of D3 discussion???  The bouncing around that we see with some frequency in D3 for the apparent sole purpose of pursuing soccer "careers" seems quite germane.

To be fair I thought Buffalo and Loyola (MD) were D1 so maybe he figured out that D3 was a better fit?
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 05:37:04 pm
PK to Oneonta. Kid made the most of it but it was a silly foul.

Silly foul and a VERY LAZY foul...That kid should get a chewin out after the game...Didn't even try to tackle him legitimately
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: PaulNewman on September 07, 2018, 05:37:47 pm
I don't understand this Oneonta keeper Giordanno. Appears to have been pretty highly touted coming out of high school.  Spends freshman year at Loyola, Sophomore year at Buffalo and then transfers yet again to Oneonta Junior year.  What's the end game here? Clearly soccer was/is his priority. To each their own I guess.

Maybe relevant to the spirit of D3 discussion???  The bouncing around that we see with some frequency in D3 for the apparent sole purpose of pursuing soccer "careers" seems quite germane.

To be fair I thought Buffalo and Loyola (MD) were D1 so maybe he figured out that D3 was a better fit?

Right, but still a lot of chasing around for soccer....and could be wrong, but seems even more common for GKs which I can understand a little better because even a really good GK can get stuck behind another one and never see the field (unlike field players).

In general, 3 or more transfers seems to underscore how much importance given to soccer.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 05:41:13 pm
Great turn by Oneonta #4 at top of box and he lost defender but then skied it
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: stlawus on September 07, 2018, 05:42:21 pm
Moving Crouse from CB to striker paying dividends already. 
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: Mr.Right on September 07, 2018, 05:43:48 pm
Harmless long ball should have been easily cleared by Oneonta #15 who is a senior. He absolutely makes a hot mess out of that and SLU gets the 2nd goal. 2-0 SLU about 10 left...This is a big time win for SLU.
Title: Re: Liberty League
Post by: blooter442 on September 07, 2018, 05:45:45 pm
Right, but still a lot of chasing around for soccer....and could be wrong, but seems even more common for GKs which I can understand a little better because even a really good GK can get stuck behind another one and never see the field (unlike field players).

In general, 3 or more transfers seems to underscore how much importance given to soccer.

Makes sense.

As an aside, whe