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Messages - kiko

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1
I assume you meant North Central rather than Elmhurst.

What you're forgetting is that North Central and Wheaton are very, very different institutions. I think that a Venn diagram of the young people who are interested in NCC and/or WC would have pretty minimal overlap between the two circles.

Well, there WAS that farmer with the two sons back in the day, but...... point taken.

2
Central Region / Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: February 20, 2020, 09:58:43 pm »
Here's the endgame from NCC-Carthage from NCTV17's camera.

https://twitter.com/NCC_Athletics/status/1230568048387510274

3
Central Region / Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: February 20, 2020, 09:46:40 pm »
Old dogs, new tricks. etc...

4
Multi-Regional Topics / Re: D3 Championship Belt
« on: February 20, 2020, 01:03:48 am »
Lebanon Valley has good records on their website.  They have recorded that they beat Moravian on 1/28/1995.  Feels pretty likely that that was Moravian's next game and that they passed The BeltTM to Lebanon Valley instead of back to Widener as was recorded.


I can confirm from perusing archives of the Morning Call that this was Moravian's next game.  1/28 (Lebanon Valley-Moravian) was a Saturday, and 1/30 (F&M-Lebanon Valley) was a Monday.

The existential question to me is: F&M had already surrendered the BeltTM when it was taken away from them by the forfeitures.  Can an alternate path exist if the BeltTM was no longer in their possession when this happened?

5
Multi-Regional Topics / Re: D3 Championship Belt
« on: February 20, 2020, 12:53:16 am »
From the Intelligencer Journal (Lancaster PA)
October 7, 1995, Page C-1

NCAA Forces F&M to forfeit three men's hoops games

Mike Mehaffey, who will sit out three games this season, played while ineligible

Gordie Jones
Intelligencer Journal Sports Writer

The Franklin & Marshall men's basketball program has gotten a black eye.

And it was apparently inflicted in part by someone on campus.

The NCAA has informed the school that the team must forfeit three of its 1994-95 games because it used an ineligible player -- namely, forward Mike Mehaffey.  Mehaffey must also sit out the first three games of this coming season.

Dr. William Marshall, F&M's athletic director, said at a news conference Friday that the school was guilty of a "technical violation", and that it was the result of an administrative foul-up.

"Nobody could have anticipated this," Marshall said.  "Nobody planned or knew about it.  But it happened."

The 29-year-old Mehaffey, a 1984 Conestoga Valley graduate, did not begin his career until 1991, at Millersville.  He transferred to F&M a year later, and has played there ever since.

The 6-foot-6 senior was second on the team in scoring (14.1) and rebounding (7.3) a year ago, and led it in field goal percentage (59.4) and free-throw percentage (84.7).  One of two returning starters this year, he is projected as an All-America by several preseason publications.

Mehaffey will be eligible to practice with the team when preseason drills begin, but he will not be able to play either of the games in the S. Woodrow Sponaugle Classic, Nov. 17-18, nor in a Nov. 26 non-conference game at FDU-Madison.  He will return on Nov. 30 against Albright at home.

The Dips, 27-2 a year ago, will also be forced to forfeit its victories over Gettysburg, Dickinson, and Lebanon Valley at the beginning of the spring semester a year ago.  A news release quoting policies established by the NCAA Statistics Service said the team's final record will still be recorded as 27-2, but an asterisk will be added to establish that the games were later forfeited.

"I'm very disappointed," Mehaffey said.  "I knew there was going to be a reprimand, but I never expected it to be handed down in this manner."

Neither did coach Glenn Robinson.

"If we had any knowledge of it, it wouldn't have happened," he said.  "There was no intent.  I'm concerned for Mike.  I don't want him to feel badly, or like he did anything wrong.  And I'm concerned about getting ready for the season."

At issue is Mehaffey's registration for last year's second semester.  He could not do that initially because of a debt he owed the college -- his records were on "financial hold", he was told -- even though he had not been previously aware of that debt.

A dean later intervened and allowed him to register, and the debt was eventually satisfied.  In the meantime, Mehaffey was practicing and playing, meaning he was technically ineligible since he wasn't a full-time student.

The NCAA was informed of the situation by letter, and Marshall believes that the letter came from someone on campus.  He believes this because it contains the phrase "financial hold", a term then in vogue in F&M's business office.

But he knows nothing else, and the NCAA is not obligated to reveal its source.

"I'm sad they didn't come to us," Marshall said.  "I've been in this business quite a while.  If they had come at the time it was happening and alerted us we would have dealt with it then and stopped the whole thing.  For whatever reason, they didn't do that."

Marshall also said that "10 or 12 other students" faced a situation similar to that of Mehaffey, and that measures have since been taken to prevent it from happening again.

The NCAA informed F&M of a possible violation in April.

"We were somewhat taken aback," Marshall said.

He launched a month-long in-house investigation, and informed the NCAA of his findings.  They handed down a penalty in late August or early September, by Marshall's recollection.

At first, it was ruled that Mehaffey could not play for F&M again.  But F&M appealed, and the sentence was reduced to three games.

Still, Robinson said, "I really thought the whole thing was too severe.  The NCAA has a very difficult time with grey.  They're good with black and white... I don't think any of us like it, but we understand it."

Said Marshall, "At no time last year was Mehaffey considered anything other than a full-time student.  It was a technicality.  Mike wasn't culpable.  The coach wasn't culpable.  Nobody knew about it until it was reported."

"In the 25 years since I've been here, this is the first time I can remember having any sanctions imposed, and I hope it's the last."

- 30 -




6
Central Region / Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: February 19, 2020, 10:40:22 pm »
I'm not going to attempt to format the PBP, but will delete superfluous pieces and add (blue text) the stuff not listed.

North Central trails 68-62 with 25 seconds left as we pick up the feed.  Lucas can add to this as I'm sure there was more going on than what I could see on the video feed.

(Note to NCTV17 -- it's really time to look into adding replay capabilities to your broadcast.)

00:14      68 (+3)   North Central   65   GOOD 3PTR by CHANG,AIDEN
--               ASSIST by RARIDON,CONNOR
00:11               FOUL by RARIDON,CONNOR
00:11   GOOD FT by COOK,CRISHAWN   69 (+4)   Carthage   65   
00:11   MISS FT by COOK,CRISHAWN            
--               REBOUND DEF by CAPPELLETTI,MATT

Cook -- who played fantastic all night (14, 8 and 8) makes the first and keeps this a two-possession game with 11 seconds left.  But he missed the second and kept Carthage's win probability in the 99.998% range rather than 99.999%


00:04   FOUL by BALTIMORE,KIENAN            

Baltimore fouls Chang on a contested three attempt from the left wing.  The shot almost went in, but the opportunity would be for a three- rather than a four-point play.


00:04      69 (+3)   North Central   66   GOOD FT by CHANG,AIDEN
00:04      69 (+2)   North Central   67   GOOD FT by CHANG,AIDEN
00:04               TIMEOUT TEAM by TEAM
00:04      69 (+1)   North Central   68   GOOD FT by CHANG,AIDEN
00:04   TIMEOUT TEAM by TEAM            
00:03               FOUL by CAPPELLETTI,MATT

Chang hits all three FTs to cut it to one.  Cappelletti immediately fouls Baltimore on the inbound pass.


00:03   MISS FT by BALTIMORE,KIENAN            
--               REBOUND DEF by CAPPELLETTI,MATT

Baltimore misses the front end of a 1-and-1.  Cappelletti had indicated to the nearest ref prior to the shot that he would call timeout immediately if the rebound came to him.  It bounced high and left off the rim, right to Cappelletti.


00:03               TIMEOUT TEAM by TEAM
00:03               TURNOVER by CAPPELLETTI,MATT
00:02   STEAL by COOK,CRISHAWN            
00:01   TURNOVER by COOK,CRISHAWN            

The sequence above is where it starts to get weird.  North Central is inbounding under the Carthage basket, and elects to use a baseball pass rather than dribble it up the floor.  So everyone other than Cappelletti (inbounder) is on the other half of the court.  This is ill-advised IMO but Todd Raridon has won about 1,000,000 more games than I have, so what do I know.

Cook easily picks off the pass, but when he lands, he bumps a teammate and travels.  Two seconds run off the clock.  Never seen this happen before, but it was an obvious travel given the amount of movement with possession of the ball after the bump.


00:01   FOUL by BULATOVIC,FILLIP            

For the above foul, North Central is now inbounding from inside their half of the floor, from the right side of the floor opposite the benches.  They attempt a lob to Cappelletti just to the left of the lane.  He is moving away from the basket with his leap to snare the pass and basically had zero chance to be in position to catch and shoot based on his trajectory, but Bulatovic bodied him contesting the pass and was called for the foul.  (His fifth after a 15-and-5 night off the bench.)

The next two were nothing but net.  Carthage had 0.9 on the clock, and attempted a similar baseball-style pass in the hopes of getting a catch-and-shoot, but the pass went off Baltimore and the Cardinals inexplicably escaped in a game they had basically no business winning.


00:01      69   North Central   69   GOOD FT by CAPPELLETTI,MATT
00:01      69   North Central   70 (+1)   GOOD FT by CAPPELLETTI,MATT
00:01   TIMEOUT TEAM by TEAM (Carthage)            
00:01               TIMEOUT TEAM by TEAM (North Central)
00:00   TURNOVER by LAKETA,PRESTON   

7
Central Region / Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: February 19, 2020, 10:12:44 pm »
Ouch!.. Appears Augie just got buried in the regional rankings.  Those close non-conference losses to Oshkosh, Lacrosse, and Wash U early on in the year appear to be looming large in regard to 
            their NCAA tourney hopes.

I'm figuring 2-6 against RRO has them in 9th or 10th slot (behind Eau-Claire)

They have such a strong SOS and will likely finish 2nd in the CCIW.  How realistic is it that Augie gets an invite w/o winning the CCIW Tourney?  I'm thinking even 1 loss by any of the teams ahead of them won't be enough for the Vikings to jump ahead.

CCIW Tournament Champs or Bust?
           

The data sheet that the NCAA published shows Augie at 2-4 vRRO.  They will pick up two additional vRRO results (both losses) in the final ranking, plus whatever CCIW RROs they may play in the conference tournament.

The bad news is that the two teams entering the rankings that they'll get credit for playing are Oshkosh and Lacrosse, which means that WIAC schools they are jockeying for position with will gain multiple vRROs from these two entering the ranking.  (The WIAC hopefuls will lose whatever credit they are getting today for Eau Claire, assuming the BluGolds don't reenter the rankings, but will have a net-gain since one WIACer dropped out and two WIACers entered the rankings.)

As was suggested above, this will be quite fluid.  The more CCIW teams that scratch their way into the rankings next week, the more it will help Augie's resume.

8
yup, for year's Elmhurst would beat up on Ripon, Benedictine, CUC, UChicago (most years) only to get devoured by AC/IWU/MU/WC.   In any event, I am looking forward to Elmhurst's meeting with UWRF.

I'm looking forward to it as well, but only because I'm still bitter about them ringing that darn bell every time they beat us in college.  ::) ::) ::) ::)

What bell?

It's understandable you don't remember it as you haven't seen it in 5 years or something like that.
If I'm not mistaken, I think kovo was talking about some Elmhurst bell.  I've heard stories about the thing, but don't recall ever having seen/heard it.

It's in a concrete tower beyond the northwest corner of Langhorst Field. After an Elmhurst win, the Bluejays run over to the bell tower and everybody on the team gets one tug on the rope. (I think that that's the procedure; 79jaybird will correct me if I got it wrong.)

Believe me, you do not want to pull on that bell rope unless you are a Bluejays student-athlete who is authorized to do so. If you're not, there will be hell to pay. Just ask the NPU men's soccer team about that. ;)

Has to be one of the most obnoxious traditions in all of college sports.

Well, it's not always just when they win.  When we started the 1986 season with the 0-0 tie at Langhorst, I remember they rang the bell after that game.  I guess I can't blame them, as they were pretty excited about ending our winning streak.


9
Central Region / Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: February 16, 2020, 11:23:03 pm »
OK, who had 4:47 in the first half for the Ron Rose jacket removal/not quite toss?

Did you see how, immediately after he started pulling it off, one of the student managers came out of nowhere and stepped onto the floor, and Giovanine tossed the sportcoat to him while barely looking in the kid's direction?

"OK, Mike, it says here on your résumé that you were a student manager for your college's men's basketball team. Tell me about that, and tell me how that prepared you for the kind of management job that you're seeking with us."

"Well, sir, I had the most important job out of all of the student managers on the team. My job was to catch the coach's sportcoat when he tossed it away during a game!"

Ah - the original comment misidentified Grey as Ron Rose.  For a minute there I thought  the jacket toss might have mutated into an infectious disease and started spreading to other coaches in the conference.  :D

Y'know, I didn't even notice that Pete had identified the coach in question as Ron Rose. At this point, I see "jacket toss" in a post, I don't even stop to think that, somewhere, somebody else on a college basketball sideline might be hurling a sportcoat. It's almost as though Grey Giovanine's got a patent on the maneuver.

Of course, he didn't invent it. When it comes to coaches flinging men's outer apparel, somebody before him had to have been the trailblazer. ;)

That was not a misidentification.  That’s what I thought (mistakenly, apparently) made it worth posting. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Oh, I think it is definitely worth mentioning... it's just such an odd sighting that I'm sure you understand why everyone thought you were talking about Double-G.

I am sad, though, that it didn't happen at the Carver Center.

10
Multi-Regional Topics / Re: D3 Championship Belt
« on: February 16, 2020, 12:19:03 pm »
Do you approach things differently when calling a BeltTM game?  Dress more formally, apply a stronger spf of sunblock, remain conscious not look directly into the BeltTM, etc.?

11
Central Region / Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: February 16, 2020, 12:16:20 pm »
OK, who had 4:47 in the first half for the Ron Rose jacket removal/not quite toss?

Did you see how, immediately after he started pulling it off, one of the student managers came out of nowhere and stepped onto the floor, and Giovanine tossed the sportcoat to him while barely looking in the kid's direction?

"OK, Mike, it says here on your résumé that you were a student manager for your college's men's basketball team. Tell me about that, and tell me how that prepared you for the kind of management job that you're seeking with us."

"Well, sir, I had the most important job out of all of the student managers on the team. My job was to catch the coach's sportcoat when he tossed it away during a game!"

Ah - the original comment misidentified Grey as Ron Rose.  For a minute there I thought  the jacket toss might have mutated into an infectious disease and started spreading to other coaches in the conference.  :D

12
Multi-Regional Topics / Re: D3 Championship Belt
« on: February 15, 2020, 10:51:30 pm »
Hey, you read what the man said. It was the Stealth Era. The BeltTM likely was encased in faceted carbon composite with LPOI active-emitter radar, radar-warning receivers, and infrared baffles. ItTM was practically invisible.

It wasn't until Just Bill came along that the decision was made for The BeltTM to cease hiding ItsTM light under a bushel, so to speak.

More likely ItTM was camped out at Charcoal Delights for the summer, and, by November, had to let a notch out of itselfTM.

13
Central Region / Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: February 14, 2020, 06:55:17 pm »
All I’m saying is that it seems like teams like BU and SNC often get highly ranked not due to the fact that they are truly superior teams, but rather because they are often easily able to build up a high number of wins/winning percentage due to the fact that so many of the other teams in their conferences are so bad. And that if they played in a tougher conference such as the CCIW they would likely not have such sterling records and correspondingly high regional rankings. You know that almost every year you hear how the CCIW teams are going to beat up on each other during the season and possibly cost some a chance at the national tournament. You don’t hear that about teams who are almost guaranteed high rankings because they face such little competition within their conference(s).     
A large percentage of CCIW games are absolute wars from start to finish. In inferior conferences dominated by one or two teams, such is often not the case.

I agree with your overall premise -- that CCIW NCAA tournament contenders face a much, much more difficult conference slate than Benedictine and St. Norbert do. I don't think anyone would disagree with this.  That's pretty much a fact - Massey Ratings would prove that, for example.

But like others here, the problem I have with the road you are going down is that Benedictine beat North Central (the probable CCIW champ) at North Central. It seems unfair to me to suggest BU would not be sitting at, say, 1st or 2nd in the CCIW right now.

As far as this season goes, I think you lost the ability to make these kind of statements regarding Benedictine, credibly, the moment this game ended - https://d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2019-20/contrib/201911268xu660.

It still seems like you are, at least partially, still missing the point. This is not about whether BU is a better team than NCC. Yes, they beat them this year. But that’s the first time in four years, and only the 4th time in the last 15 meetings. But if BU (or SNC) was in the CCIW rather than their current respective conferences, I don’t think you can say with any degree of certainty that they would be sitting in 1st or 2nd place right now. Not just because they beat NCC early this season when one of BU’s better players at the time is no longer playing, and one of NCC’s current starters wasn’t even playing yet. Not when they would be facing teams like Augie, Elmhurst, IWU, Wheaton, Carthage, and NCC all twice in a season rather than many of the teams - 20 games worth for BU, and 18 for SNC I believe - than they do now.

My whole point here is that if BU and SNC were CCIW members they would have a much, much tougher regular season schedule, and could correspondingly be expected to have fewer overall wins (and thus a lower winning percentage, a lower regional ranking, and a more difficult road to making the national tournament) than their current conference(s) lineup(s) afford them.

And given your opening statement, I agree with your overall premise — that CCIW NCAA tournament contenders face a much much more difficult conference slate than Benedictine and St. Norbert do, it seems like you agree with me. So, it’s hard to understand why the major pushback?

The pushback is that you are arguing that we should dismiss Benedictine's record/winning percentage because they play in a weaker conference.  Yet you are also arguing that we should dismiss a tangible data point that shows a head-to-head win on the road over the current leader in the CCIW standings.

You called out seven CCIW teams that Benedictine would supposedly have trouble beating, including a Carroll team that currently sits 4-9 in the conference and that the Eagles regularly handled when they were in the MWC.  I think your perception of the mid-tier of our teams relative to the MWC's best flatters the CCIW -- especially when the Bennies handled the Cardinals on the road.

It is a bit of a stretch to dismiss the metrics when that H2H data point exists.  You keep explaining it away with an argument that suggests it doesn't count because both teams' starting lineups look different today.  In essence, you are asking us to buy into an argument that requires us to ignore the only tangible data we have, because that data doesn't support the conclusion you want.

If Benedictine beat the Sons of Warden and doesn't have a stronger record, there is a credible argument that they belong behind North Central in the regional rankings.  If they lose the matchup at the Airplane Hangar but still have stronger overall metrics, there is a case for the Cardinals being higher (or more likely, for the Eagles being lower).  But since the Eagles have both the better record and the H2H win, I have zero issue with them sitting above North Central and the other ranked CCIW teams.

14
Central Region / Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: February 13, 2020, 11:26:41 pm »
1. Platteville - 0.842 W% - 0.566 SOS
2. Wash U - 0.800 - 0.565
3. Benedictine - 0.857 - 0.493
4. SNC - 0.857 - 0.536
5. Eau Claire - 0.714 - 0.580
6. NCC - 0.810 - 0.523
7. Augustana - 0.727 - 0.578
8. Elmhurst - 0.818 - 0.526


Put Benedictine and St. Norbs in the CCIW and see where they’d rank. 👇

The same Benedictine club that beat your Cardinals in the airplane hangar earlier this season?  ;)

Well that was a wide open door...

Exactly. And I anticipated that someone would likely make such a remark.
BUT, that BU beat NCC isn’t the point here. The point is that although both BU and SNC are good enough where they would certainly win some CCIW games, no way would they win nearly as many playing in the CCIW regularly as they do in their current respective conferences which are not nearly as strong top to bottom as the CCIW. So BU beats NCC (or substitute any other CCIW team), but they’re not going to beat a majority of the other top conference teams. They (and SNC) are not going to also beat Augie, Elmhurst, IWU, Wheaton, Carthage and Carroll. A couple maybe, but not a majority like they do in their current conferences. Both BU and SNC are likely no better than 5th in a the CCIW. They would certainly pile up more losses than they do playing against, and dominating, their current conference opponents, and thus their regional rankings would correspondingly be lower.

This is an embarrassingly weak argument.

Well, I’m sorry about your embarrassment.
Perhaps accepting the obvious fact that neither BU nor SNC would dominate in the CCIW the way they usually do in their current respective conferences would help?  ;)

You seem confused.  This...

Perhaps accepting the obvious fact that neither BU nor SNC would dominate in the CCIW the way they usually do in their current respective conferences would help?  ;)

... is an opinion, and not a fact.

This...

https://d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2019-20/contrib/201911268xu660

...is a fact.

15
Central Region / Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: February 13, 2020, 10:06:07 pm »
+1 It is so true, I am just poking the Bear.

Milliin > Washington University > Augustana-IWU-Chicago-Coe-Rhodes
Augustana-IWU-Chicago-Coe-Rhodes  > Millikin

Quite literally, it would seem...   ;D

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