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Messages - lmitzel

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1
Wheaton must be really kicking themselves for losing to Millikin in the last minute.  Otherwise, they just won the AQ if NCC/IWU/Wheaton had all finished 7-1.  But at 8-2 (overall), they are virtually dead-meat.  Kind of a shame - if we had the D1 selection process, they would probably be in the post-season (two last minute losses to solid teams and a blowout of a then top-4 team), but by the D3 criteria I just can't see that they have any realistic chance at all.

Ypsi,

There's a ton of football to be played yet. 1. Kinda early to assume IWU & NCC both finish 9-1 ...we could be looking at one of the craziest CCIW seasons we've ever seen. If you think IWU is just going to walk their way to 9-1 with Carthage and Millikin still on the schedule, I'd say you'd better think twice. Carthage controls their own destiny. I think they roll into B-Town with a huge chip on their shoulder... especially when you consider the very questionable pass interference call on Carthage (on 4th down) that kept the winning drive alive for IWU in 2016. Next Saturday, Carthage @ IWU is gonna be a dogfight!

2. Also, way too early to assume WC is "dead meat" in terms of a playoff birth... IMO.

On a separate note, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the CCIW is the 2nd best conference in the country this year, behind only the WIAC.

1. Absolutely correct.
2. If WC isn't already out of the playoffs, it's hopes are on it's deathbed.

Considering there are only five at large spots, a two-loss Wheaton team, even with a win against the potential CCIW AQ team in North Central, is probably not making it.

2
Central Region / Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: October 13, 2017, 09:37:40 am »
Wheaton's new roster :
http://athletics.wheaton.edu/roster.aspx?roster=255&path=wbball

A lot of youth on that roster, but knowing Kent Madsen at least a few will end up being stars and Wheaton will continue to be near the top of the conference. We’ll have to see if there end up being any growing pains or not.

3
Gregory, I'm with you.  Little Brass What? ;D

BELL, Ypsi, BELL. 🔔
Something of your's thats been rung a time or two too many!  ;)

Come on everyone knows the story---it starts with a farmer and his two sons.  Both wanted to go to college, so they flipped a coin and the winner got to attend NCC, the loser had to go to Wheaton (this correct version appears on NCC's website).  Someone else can pick it up from there.

And seeing as Wheaton doesn't have a Little Brass Bell section on their website the story must be true.

I'd feel a little better about having the Bell this year should NCC win. Having it the last ten and a half months has felt really hollow. :(

4
I think the on-demand game video will be available here, though it's currently not loading.

As of this morning, it's loading... but the video conveniently cuts off at some point before Wheaton scores to make it 31-28. I'm curious to see the play too.

Massey sez:

Wheaton 42, Millikin 14 (WC 97%, MU 3%)


3%? ???  Evidently, NOT

Scoreboard sez:

Millikin 35, Wheaton 31  :o

I guess Massey has a hard time predicting a Mickey Mouse of an officiating crew being assigned to the game.

Heck, someone needs to say it, it’s pretty obvious. 15 penalties for 153 yards. When the defense picks the ball off and it gets negated by a total nonsense roughing the passer call, it’s time to call a spade a spade. For the record, hitting the QB while he’s releasing the ball is not roughing, it’s not late... it’s nothing more than hogwash call

Is there any video available that would provide definitive evidence of the roughing call being either valid or bogus?

If said video is provided, will it get written off as “where’s the evidence?” like last week’s photos were?

I'm also going to echo CardinalAlum and say that if your team has taken double digit penalties three times already this season lost over 100 yards to said penalties each time... maybe your team is the problem.

According to the CCIW website Wheaton is last in the conference is penalty yardage with 91.5 per game (Elmhurst is best with 44.7), and last in total penalties with 56 (Carroll is best with 27).  Two possible conclusions.  First, Wheaton has been undisciplined and taken way too many penalties.  Or second, there is a conference wide conspiracy between the member institutions, league office and game officials to consistently flag Wheaton with needless unwarranted fouls in an effort to undercut their season.

There appears to be a split of opinion as to which one it is, with the vast majority picking option one.

I mean, clearly there's some sort of collusion to tear Wheaton down completely in the aftermath of the scandal even though two of the three aforementioned double digit, 100 yard penalty games came before the news broke.  :P

But in all seriousness, I went through the penalties called on Wheaton last night. Four false starts (with Millikin called for roughly the same amount), a couple illegal blocks, three holding calls, a defensive offsides, an OPI, and the killer- four separate personal fouls, including the alleged one that thunderdog thinks cost Wheaton the game. 15 does seem like a lot, but Millikin got flagged ten times for their part, so let's not pretend there was some sort of huge disparity here.

5
I think the on-demand game video will be available here, though it's currently not loading.

As of this morning, it's loading... but the video conveniently cuts off at some point before Wheaton scores to make it 31-28. I'm curious to see the play too.

Massey sez:

Wheaton 42, Millikin 14 (WC 97%, MU 3%)


3%? ???  Evidently, NOT

Scoreboard sez:

Millikin 35, Wheaton 31  :o

I guess Massey has a hard time predicting a Mickey Mouse of an officiating crew being assigned to the game.

Heck, someone needs to say it, it’s pretty obvious. 15 penalties for 153 yards. When the defense picks the ball off and it gets negated by a total nonsense roughing the passer call, it’s time to call a spade a spade. For the record, hitting the QB while he’s releasing the ball is not roughing, it’s not late... it’s nothing more than hogwash call

Is there any video available that would provide definitive evidence of the roughing call being either valid or bogus?

If said video is provided, will it get written off as “where’s the evidence?” like last week’s photos were?

I'm also going to echo CardinalAlum and say that if your team has taken double digit penalties three times already this season lost over 100 yards to said penalties each time... maybe your team is the problem.

6
Central Region / Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: October 06, 2017, 02:01:18 pm »
NCC’s roster is up as well.

A few new faces, some of whom I mentioned on here in the off-season, others I either never saw an official announcement on or heard about but couldn’t comment on.

We’ve got a few players coming off knee injuries, but it sounds like everyone should be good to go. Will be great to see Mayson Whipple back on the court this year after she missed basically all of the 2017 portion of last year. I’m excited.

Also had a late addition to the coaching staff. Former football and baseball standout Steve Hlavac is on staff as the strength and conditioning coach.

7
Central Region / Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: September 26, 2017, 02:32:38 pm »
North Central's schedule should be finalized now.

The Beth Baker Classic schedule was already out, and now the one for the tournament at UT-Dallas is also up: North Central will play Trinity-Texas and Kean on December 29th and 30th.

Also filled out the schedule with a 25th game at Chicago on December 18th. It will be their first matchup since 2010-11. Still no roster yet; I imagine that's coming within the next few weeks though.

8
North Region football / Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: September 23, 2017, 02:02:14 pm »
Oh, Reddit, the absolute truth of the internet. The Final Boss of Truth.

Hey, you have to believe everything you read on the Internet. Abraham Lincoln said so. ;D

9
North Region football / Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: September 22, 2017, 06:57:59 pm »
For me the shoulder injury is a really interesting topic. If the accuser has no record of shoulder tears pre-incident and there isn't a huge time gap between his last doctor visit and March 2016, Wheaton could really end up with a lot of egg on its face since they seem certain he hid something from them.

He would've needed to have a full physical exam done before he would've been cleared for spring football drills, which his lawyer said that he was participating in around the time of the attack. That physical would've had to have taken place after he came to college; i.e., after his alleged high-school shoulder injury. Schools are very hardcore about enforcing the requirement to have a physical taken, not just because of the pertinent NCAA bylaw:

Quote
17.1.5 Mandatory Medical Examination.
  • Prior to participation in any practice, competition or out-of-season conditioning activities (or in Division I, permissible voluntary summer conditioning or individual workouts, or permissible required summer athletic activities in basketball and football), student-athletes who are beginning their initial season of eligibility and students who are trying out for a team shall be required to undergo a medical examination or evaluation administered or supervised by a physician (e.g., family physician, team physician). A nurse practitioner whose state medical licensure allows for health care practice independent of physician supervision may complete the medical examination without supervision by a physician. The examination or evaluation must be administered within six months prior to participation in any practice, competition or out-of-season conditioning activities. In following years, an updated history of the student-athlete's medical condition shall be administered by an institutional medical staff member (e.g., sports medicine staff, team physician) to determine if additional examinations (e.g., physical, cardiovascular, neurological) are required. The updated history must be administered within six months prior to the student-athlete's participation in any practice, competition or out-of-season conditioning activities for the applicable academic year. (Adopted: 1/8/07 effective 5/1/07, Revised: 8/5/08, 6/5/15, 10/29/15)

... but because of the insurance headache for the school that would be involved if a student-athlete suffered an injury affected by an undisclosed pre-existing medical condition.

I assumed there was some sort of policy (school or NCAA) that required a physical but I wasn't sure what the timeline was for it.

I'm actually more curious about the discrepancy regarding the alleged victim's injuries to his shoulders, because I think that that's a more tangible aspect to the difference of opinion between Wheaton's findings and the findings of local law enforcement. After all, if the alleged assailants were grabbing at the kid's clothing, while one of them (Spielman, apparently) was making sexual threats, then the alleged victim could've interpreted what his tormentors were doing to him in grabbing at his clothing as being sexual in nature, even if that wasn't the actual intent behind the grabbing.

And maybe this is why the SA didn't include attempted sexual assault as one of the charges. Given the disparity between accounts and depending on physical evidence, that aspect may have been too ambiguous.

10
North Region football / Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: September 22, 2017, 05:17:17 pm »
http://abcnews.go.com/US/documents-show-wheaton-college-doubted-story-alleged-hazing/story?id=50023705

That is an interesting read. The article seems to suggest that the letter to the alleged victim focused on whether or not a "sexual assault" occurred and Wheaton concluded the allegations of "sexual assault" were not believable but did conclude other allegations were accurate. The article says the letter references the alleged victim being "bound and blindfolded."

A lot of missing pieces but some holes are being plugged in my mind as to how Wheaton and the SA reached different conclusions.

For me the shoulder injury is a really interesting topic. If the accuser has no record of shoulder tears pre-incident and there isn't a huge time gap between his last doctor visit and March 2016, Wheaton could really end up with a lot of egg on its face since they seem certain he hid something from them.
Romans 1:29
They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are GOSSIPS,

1 Timothy 5:13
Besides that, they learn to be idlers, going about from house to house, and not only idlers, but also GOSSIPS and busybodies, saying what they should not.

 2 Corinthians 12:20
20 For I fear that perhaps when I come I may find you not as I wish, and that you may find me not as you wish—that perhaps there may be quarreling, jealousy, anger, hostility, slander, GOSSIP, conceit, and disorder.



Proverbs 26:17
17 Whoever meddles in a quarrel not his own
    is like one who takes a passing dog by the ears.

Proverbs 11:9
With his mouth the godless man would destroy his neighbor, but by knowledge the righteous are delivered.



Go Thunder: without intending to be flippant, anti-Wheaton, and anti-Christianity, I would be grateful if you could explain how the Biblical texts you quote above are relevant to the current problem at Wheaton.

~ wt

Not to defend his cherry-picking from the Bible, but I think our discussion of possible legal ramifications is "gossip" to him, judging by his use of all caps. But I personally think he's full of it; I don't see how any of this is gossip.

11
Central Region / Re: WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: September 21, 2017, 07:38:56 am »
North Central's web site now shows two new assistant coaches (temporarily listed in the 2016-17 staff) : Mark Youngs and recent student Eric Gruber.
Youngs was head coach at NAIA Davenport fairly recently and ran a fast-paced team. Subsequent to that, he coached in Ghana and was an assistant at D1 Monmouth NJ. I'd say the NAIA work has more relevance, as that game is a lot more similar to D3 than is D1 and its thick tall players.

Obviously it's on the website so it's official, but I can confirm. I didn't post anything here about it because I never saw an official announcement and was kind of waiting for that.

I met Mark a few weeks ago, and I think he's excited about the new opportunity. Eric I've met kind of in passing a few times. As Rog said, he's an NCC alum (played golf), and called games both for WONC when he was an undergrad there and did color for NCTV last year. He knows his stuff.

12
North Region football / Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: September 20, 2017, 05:49:48 pm »
As a Reformed amillennialist no other book of the bible describes the persecution of Christians as Rev. 11 where the two witnesses is the Church bearing witness of the Gospel of Jesus. The Gospel torments Satan and the unrepentant wicked through powerful spiritual Judgment that they do everything in their power to stop the witness of Jesus crucified for the forgiveness of sins. So they kill the two witnesses or the spread of the Gospel.
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/eschatology/rev11.html
http://www.prca.org/resources/categories/articles/item/3505-summary-of-the-book-of-revelation
http://www.cprc.co.uk/2witnesses.m3u
two witnesses = witness of the True Church of Christ crucified for the forgiveness of sins.
I will give power = holy spirit
reed like unto a rod: = Gods measuring stick used to measure the Church
measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein = Church

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against
 Revelation 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlS_j4QnxrE
{GAWKERS}
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven


The Bible cuts the atheist deep in the heart till they cant stand it.

Hebrews 4:11-13
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged
sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of
the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of
the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
1 John 2:15-17
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

I'm basically going to paraphrase Greg from yesterday, and I really hope you're not trolling because then I'm just feeding the troll, but here goes.

I share a fairly similar faith to you. Others have come forward and shared similar affirmations of faith. I'm against Wheaton in an athletic sense, but I harbor no ill will towards the college on the whole. But no one on this board from what I can tell has taken this as an opportunity to persecute Christians for t. And seeing as I and others are, why would we persecute our own? As others have said multiple times, bring critical of the college's actions is not persecuting them. It's questioning the operating procedure of an institution whose motto just happens to be "For Christ And His Kingdom." If this were my own Alma mater and the rest of the story was exactly the same I would feel just as dirty about this and wouldn't start cherry picking Scripture in an effort to save face for my school. I imagine many others would say the same.

This isn't a conviction of the Wheaton players, because I don't know enough to make a fully informed decision. Most everyone else seems to be on the fence as well. We want the truth to come out, whatever it is, and for the appropriate actions to then be taken.

13
North Region football / Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: September 20, 2017, 05:02:13 am »
Boy, things escalated quickly.

I've seen the Wheaton side of the story now too. Leaving theological arguments aside because we've had enough of those, there's still something that bothers me. If they're convinced their version of events is correct, why suspend the players, other than to fend off the pitchforks and torches?

Maybe I'm reading too much into this. I don't know what to believe. I just want the truth and justice to prevail, and I'm not picking a side.

My source also fears that supposedly protests are going to happen either at a practice or a game. Or both, who even knows anymore.

14
North Region football / Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: September 19, 2017, 02:05:52 pm »
When I came to work today What do I hear from the atheist ND fan and 3 others with a smile on their face. Whats up with Wheaton and their football players and mention of sodomy? 
People coming to this site to rejoice in and judge the body of Christ.

Would you be posting the same thing if it was about your son or daughter?
I don't know what happened except some sort of sin was committed. 
I know I am the biggest of sinners and by the grace of God their go I. 
I sin every day to the point that I am weary of sinning and cant wait to be with Jesus and no longer sinning.
Christians still sin and in any college atmosphere including Christian colleges their is sin.  For the Christian it is the battle of the flesh and spirit.

Paul sad he was the greatest of sinners.
King David murdered a man to steal his wife.  The world would have gave him the death penalty yet he was a man after Gods own heart because of his sorrow for sin.
Later wrote psalm 51.

The greatest manifestation of Godliness in the life of a Christian is sorrow for sin. Prof Hanko

So I pray for these young men the coaches and the body of Christ.

I pray for your schools and people when they go astray.

I pray that our kids are not subject to so much sin and debauchery in their schools. 

I pray that the Grace of Jesus and forgiveness finds us all.

Like I said earlier, I have no love for Wheaton. But I'm not rejoicing over a few of their football players allegedly assaulting another student or the ensuing backlash against the school from the news of the charges being filed; I haven't seen anyone else on here do so either. I'm sorry you got such a negative reception at work today, but don't project that on this community, which in the time I've been here has been a very positive one.

15
North Region football / Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: September 19, 2017, 09:23:07 am »
These men are innocent until proven guilty.  That said, the alleged crime occurred months ago, and was supposedly investigated by an independent reviewing body.  DuPage County has determined there is enough evidence to bring felony charges against all five.  This didn't happen yesterday.  Three of the accused played on Saturday.  It seems very odd that these players were allowed to play on Saturday.  Shouldn't they at least be suspended from the team until this is resolved or they are found innocent? 

I'm a Wheaton parent and father of a former athlete.  These allegations sicken me.  Hoping that the charges are found to be untrue, but struggling to understand the apparent "business as usual" approach, allowing them to play under this cloud. :'(

First, just need to be clear that these allegations sicken me as well.  Disgusted by this news.

If the charges were just brought today, perhaps that explains why they played last Saturday. 

Given that they will be surrendering themselves later this week, I'd fully expect Wheaton to tell these men they're not playing until further notice.

It is strange that this event happened 18 some months ago, but the charges are just being brought now. I know there's not a rush to bring charges and investigating takes time.

Under the administration of the previous DuPage County Prosecutor (States Attorney), charges would likely have been brought within 18 minutes of news of the (alledged) incident becoming public. That's because he had higher political aspirations (Atty General, Governor, Senator) and had no qualms about using high profile cases to draw attention to himself in an effort to make himself appear as tough on crime, and thus a desireable candidate for those higher offices. A quick conviction, in a overwhelmingly conservative environment at the time, was the the primary objective, not actual guilt or innocence.
Conversely, the current occupant of the office has, for the most part, demonstrated a more restrained approach with regard to the initial filing of charges. He is more apt to let concerned medical, police, and assistants from his own office complete their investigations and reports, and then objectively review those reports before bringing charges. Accordingly, it's not surprising that it has been 18 months since the (alledged) incident occurred, and there is little doubt he doesn't feel he has a strong case against the defendants.
Going forward, there is no way to determine if some of the charges will be dropped, additional charges may be added, a trial may commence, or a plea agreement might be reached in which the defendants may or may not admit any degree of guilt.

A la the Paterno case, its difficult to comprehend how the WC coaching staff hasn't had some degree of knowledge of the incident since shortly after it (alledgedly) occurred.

At the end of the NBC newscast tonight, they said Wheaton was issuing a statement about what action they would next be taking. However, as of a few minutes ago, I see nothing new on the internet, and all 5 of the players still appear on the roster.

While I agree that Wheaton's administration and football staff find themselves in a tough spot today, I think invoking Paterno is a bridge too far.  This, while awful if true, isn't the same thing as Penn St.

I have no love for Wheaton (respect, sure, but not love), but I agree with this take. Penn State doesn't deserve to have a football program (but that's another topic for another place and time), so that's a high bar to meet. I don't think the transgressions here, if true, merit the same kind of reaction. I doubt Swider tried to cover anything up. The optics of it may not look the best from the outside, though like USee said, there's more that to the story that isn't public knowledge. I would say as long the accused don't see the field for a while, the punishment would fit the alleged crime, though it's a tricky balance between due process and trying to make sure that you're prioritizing student safety over winning a few football games.

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