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Messages - AndOne

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1
Welcome. No prob.
Interesting that Augie has now, apparently, also left the Deerfield JOG league unless they are playing in both leagues. NCC, Elmhurst, and IWU did so last summer. This is the first time Wheaton has participated-at least in many a moon. They never played at Deerfield as they never really had enough local players to take part. Either they have more local kids now or some of their out of staters might be planning to be in town this summer.
Also of note is the addition of Roosevelt, and especially IIT with IIT even hosting on 3 evenings. I suspect head coach Todd Kelly's past association with NCC and the CCIW might have a lot to do with that.

2
I'm enjoying the off-season discussion.  Thanks all for the interest in keeping it going with good questions and good answers.
Does anyone have current info on the open gym summer basketball reported to be at Benedictine and Elmhurst?  I emailed Benedictine but didn't get a reply.  Thanks for an update if or when you have it.

Open summer league will begin Mon, 6/1.

Teams participating will be--Augustana, Aurora, Benedictine, Elmhurst, IL Institute of Technology, IL Wesleyan, Judson U, North Central, Roosevelt U, and Wheaton.
Not all teams may be present on every date. At least not full teams, meaning 5 players.

* All games will be house rules by the team running the site.
* Schools can divide into separate teams of 5 on site. I believe this means, depending on what players show up on any given night, that teams may be comprised of players from different schools.
* There will be no officials, scoreboards, or time clocks. CALL YOUR OWN FOULS.
* Games will run from 5:30 to 8:00 UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED.

SCHEDULE:

6/1-Benedictine
6/3-Open date
6/8-Benedictine
6/10-Open
6/11-Elmhurst (4:30-7:00)
6/15-Benedictine
6/17-Open
6/18-Elmhurst (4:30-7:00)
6/22-Open
6/24-Elmhurst
6/29-Illinois Tech (7:00-9:00)--3040 S. Wabash, Chicago. (PARKING UNDER TRACKS)
7/1-Open
7/2-Elmhurst (4:30-7:00)
7/6-IL Tech (7:00-9:00)
7/7-Open
7/9-Elmhurst (4:30-7:00)
7/13-IL Tech (7:00-9:00)
7/15-Open
7/20, 7/22, 7/27, 7/29, 8/3, 8/6, & 8/10--All @ Elmhurst

I'm not sure why the open dates are listed other than to suggest the possibility that games may be added on the listed dates.

3
I can say with confidence that Mike Schauer has seen the recruits he cares about in person multiple times via their HS games, AAU, and in home visits. Wheaton recruits most definitely do NOT "recruit themselves".

Then, given the scope of the Wheaton roster, WC must have a hell heck of a recruiting travel budget. I'm sure nobody is driving to Idaho, Texas, Florida, or Virginia, and also that an overnight stay would be included in several of the sojourns.

That's why I think a lot of kids that end up at Wheaton know of the school beforehand by reputation, word of mouth from an alum or clergy member, or other means and, once they decide they are interested, make an initial contact by mail or phone rather than waiting to be discovered by a WC coach that may be half the country away. In effect, they recruit themselves by initiating the process.

4
And besides Joe Henricksen, there are both several other journalists and scouting service purveyors who are very much on top of the HS hoops scene. Additionally, no matter what analyst you may be talking about, I'd venture to say none are really that familiar with players far removed from the portion of the state in which they are domiciled.

And, carrying this discussion one step further, let's say Mr. Henricksen has the 100 top players in the state absolutely nailed. As IWU has been referenced as an example in the immediate past, lets continue in that vein. In his top 100, Henricksen lists two IWU recruits as PGs (Coleman & Falotico), and two (Bonnett & Gregoire) as SGs. The fact of the matter is only one can play each position at a time. Accordingly, even though they may be among the top 100 players in the state, unless they change positions in college, one of each pair faces the prospect of seeing very little PT over the course of his career. All likely will see no time this year due to the log jam in front of them. And, 2 of them would seem to have an even tougher row to hoe due to the fact that the odds makers have laid heavy money on the prospect that one of the starting guards for the next three years will be a player with a close personal relationship to God Ron Rose.

The bottom line, then, is that even if you're one of the top 100 HS players in Illinois, there is no guarantee of how much, if any, PT you will see at the next level. Much of it has to do with timing. Is there going to be a real opening at my position in my freshman, sophomore, or junior year, or even in my senior year? I suspect this is true not only at IWU, but at many other schools as well.

5

Wheaton
* Tyrel Derrick, 6-0 PG (Lakeland H.S., Rathdrum, ID)
* Kobe Eichelberger, 6-4 SG (Trinity Prep, Maitland, FL)
* Trevor Gunter, 6-6 PF (Grace Community School, Flint, TX)
* Reagan Jones, 6-6 PF (Lake Braddock H.S., Burke, VA)
* Trae Masten, 6-7 SF (South Side H.S., Fort Wayne, IN)
* Troy Morrison, 5-11 PG (Phillips Exeter Academy, NH/Greater Atlanta Christian School '14, GA)
* Luke Peters, 6-3 G/F (Cuyahoga Valley Christian Academy, Stow, OH)
* Michael Winowiecki, 6-3 SG (Indiana Wesleyan/Saugatuck H.S. '14, MI)

Question for Wheaton fans............(and anyone else knowledgeable about Wheaton recruiting)

I have long held the belief that, primarily due to it's religious philosophy, Wheaton doesn't do a lot of actual recruiting in the traditional sense. By "traditional sense" I mean actually going to a kid's high school games in order to establish a presence, and indicate and develop interest in having a kid attend the prospective institution the recruiter represents.
I just can't imagine Mike Schauer or any of his assistants making too many trips to places in Idaho, Florida, Texas, and Virginia, let alone to Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio.
Accordingly, don't many recruits, again in large part due to it's religious philosophy, actually "recruit" themselves to Wheaton? Or, am I misguided in my thinking, and does the Wheaton staff actually make the first contact and travel hundreds or even thousands of miles to see kids play as part of the process? It just seems like many kids would research Christian schools, and then initiate long distance contact with Wheaton or with any other choice of a like-minded school.

Can anyone enlighten me regarding this question? Thanks.

6
5 IWU recruits in the top 100 in Illinois. Very daunting for the rest of us. When it comes to recruiting top tier talent, nobody else in the conference ever quite matches the Titans.

Ya, but they're all guards.  How many guards they got now anyway?  :D

Who says the kids listed are the top 100 players in Illinois? First, examine the wording. Joe Henricksen says "100 of the top. That implies not all of the actual top 100 are listed. Also, other journalists may other ideas about who the top 100 players in the state are. Does a Chicago based journalist, or one based anywhere else, know ALL the 100 best players in the state for certain?Doubtful.

As far as IWU goes, if you're not a good high school player, you're not going to become a member of the basketball team at IWU. But just because Joe Henricksen, or anyone else, says you're one of the absolute top 100 HS players in the state doesn't make it so.

To answer your question, the 4 IWU recruits listed as guards plus the 12 eligible to return from last year's roster, bring the total to 16 guards. With Wesleyan having what is evidently the largest roster in the conference, some posters have previously opined that IWU "hoards" players. I feel you "hoard" something you intend to use. As there is no way so many players can possibly ever be used, I don't personally feel IWU actually "hoards" players.
Is 16 guards an unnecessarily high number? Who knows? What is known is that such a large number practically guarantees many of the 16 will never actually play for IWU.

As far as recruiting "top tier talent," IWU has won the CCIW championship twice on the last 10 years, so they aren't exactly alone in that regard.  ;)

7
BWH-

I'm sure there certainly is more to winning national championships than much lower tuition. However, nowdays lower tuition has probably come to the forefront more so than at any other time in our history. And, even though Whitewater, Stevens  Point, and Platteville are nice little towns, I don't  think you can argue that athletes usually choose to attend school there because they hold more advantages than places like Kenosha, Naperville, Elmhurst, or Chicago. Also, with all due respect to state schools, I don't believe the academic superiority of most state schools over most privates is usually the primary reason an athlete chooses a state school.

As far as UW-Superior having the same low tuition as UWW, but not having the championships The Purple does, we were talking Chicagoland recruiting which, I'm sure you'll agree, it a bit beyond the range of UWS's radar.  ;)

8
Because of this advantage, public schools are expected to win National Championships more than private establishments? Ouch!

Private schools also have the advantage of giving more financial aide than their public school counterparts, from what I've read.

here we go...

Greek-

I'm not sure if "expected" is the right word, but lets say I certainly am not surprised when UWW or UWSP wins a championship.

As far as privates giving bigger financial aide "packages," I have no doubt they both can and do.
However, please see the example I referenced above. If tuition is $13,744 at UWW (or any other state school) and $48,835 at Carthage (or Elmhurst, NCC, Aurora, Benedictine, St. Norbert, or Lake Forest), and the private gives a $20,000 package, the cost at the private is still over $15,000 more a year or $60,000 more over a four year period, even if the public doesn't give a dime. And, if they do give a dime the difference, of course, is even greater.

Call me crazy, but it just seems like a tremendous recruiting advantage, especially if a player's parents don't run a profitable business or commute to the executive floor of a major downtown corporate office. As Badgewarhawk said, "as long as our out of state tuition is less expensive than Illinois instate, we'll get the athletes." Accordingly, it's "not surprising" that so many good athletes enroll at the state schools, and it's also not surprising, that with so many good athletes, they win.
What do you think?

9
Titan Q posted all the publicized recruits for the CCIW on their page. I noticed just one player from Wisconsin listed. That begged the question if CCIW schools regularly recruit north of the border. In turn, I wondered how many WIAC schools have Illinois players on their rosters.

Platteville had 6 from Illinois and 9 from Wisconsin.  Surprisingly to me, none from Iowa.

Whitewater had 4 from Illinois and 12 from Wisconsin. 1 from Missouri.

Oshkosh has 3 and 14.

Stevens Point and River Falls each had one from Illinois.  In addition,  Point had 12 from Wisconsin.  River Falls added just 3 from Wisconsin and 13 from Minnesota (and one from Colorado)

Not surprisingly, Stout, Eau Claire and Superior didn't have anyone from Illinois,  along with La Crosse.  Instead, they had some plauers from Minnesota.  Eau Claire had 13, Stout had 4, Superior had 3 and La Crosse with 3 from Minnesota.

Superior had the United Nations on their team. In addition to players from Michigan amd Montana,  players came from Spain, Sweden, Denmark,  Brazil, Switzerland and Australia.

Does Wisconsin not still have a reciprocity agreement with Minnesota? My nephew from Madison. WI went to U of MN for Minnesota resident tuition. If the agreement is still in place its not surprising there are a lot of MN residents on the various WIAC rosters.

10
It's simple. It's hard to get someone to commit to a school that chargers almost 40,000 a year without any scholarships. Nice campus amazing facilities but ridiculous price. Not a great sports atmosphere either. They were just better options for myself and my family.

Excuse me, but who are you, and what in the world are you referring to/talking about?

Also, once was enough!  ::)

I believe he is a kid out of Kenosha who decided NOT to go to Carthage.  #11 from Indian Trail.  http://www.hudl.com/athlete/1717070/andre-brown

Thanks mwunder.

Seems this kid is going to Whitewater.
This begs the question of why in the world would a kid go to Whitewater for $13,744.00 (tuition + double occupancy and 14 meal plan) when he could go to Carthage for $48,835.00 (tuition + double occupancy and 13 meal plan) PLUS having the pleasure of playing for Bosko?
It just makes no sense whatsoever.  ::)   ;)

Traditionally, the only CCIW school that really works Wisconsin is Carthage. For all the years I've followed this league, I can't recall more than a half-dozen or so non-Carthage or non-Carroll Wisconsin natives who've played in the CCIW. (North Park hasn't had one since Nils Clauson, who hailed from Green Bay's Northeast Wisconsin Lutheran HS, two decades ago.) Yes, Wisconsin does have quality players, but it also has a large league that consists of dramatically cheaper schools that likewise play a very high brand of non-scholarship college basketball. And, as if competing with the WIAC wasn't enough, there's also half of the MWC and more than half of the NACC with which to contend. Yeah, the CCIW usually wins recruiting battles against those two conferences, but it's often a different matter if a recruiting battle is on the home turf of the non-CCIW school.

Plus, there's the matter of recruiting resources. Each CCIW program has a limited number of coaches to do the recruiting, and there's only so many high school or AAU games that they are able to see in person. It makes more sense to stick closer to home to do most of your recruiting work (unless you're Wheaton, which has to operate on a different recruiting model). In other words, the effort-to-reward ratio for non-Carthage CCIW coaches to recruit in l'etat de fromage is not very favorable, especially when you consider that the six-county Chicagoland area (Cook, DuPage, Lake, McHenry, Will, and Kane counties) that constitutes the main recruiting base of the CCIW -- and the home of four of its eight schools -- has about 7.7 million people. That's two million more people than there are in the entire state of Wisconsin. It's just not an efficient use of time or energy for a CCIW coach to work Wisconsin, unless: a) he's given a lead on a specific player with a likely affinity to his school (e.g., a legacy or a player for an alumnus HS coach) that allows him to make a connection prior to driving up to see the kid play; or b) he's Bosko Djurickovic or one of Bosko's assistants.

I would challenge the idea that UWW recruits in Illinois the most. UW-Platteville has worked Illinois very hard in recent years, and UW-Oshkosh now has them both beat in terms of dipping below the Cheddar Curtain in order to woo players.

Greg, it's about quality not quantity. ;)

Platteville has stepped it up in Illinois since gaining reciprocity a few years ago.  Oshkosh has only recently gotten reciprocity but they've started hitting Illinois heavily too.   I wouldn't expect anything to change in the future all three WIAC schools will continue to recruit Illinois heavily. As long as our out of state tuition is less expensive than Illinois instate we'll get athletes. 

Badgerwarhawk--

Given your statement, which is highlighted above in red, and which I agree with, I'd be interested in your opinion regarding the following questions:

1. Do you feel the much lower tuition at schools like Whitewater, Stevens Point, Platteville, and Oshkosh, all within fairly close proximity to the Chicagoland area and its multitude of prospects, provides said schools with any recruiting advantage over private institutions such as those in the CCIW, MWC, and NACC? If not, why?

2. If so, is it not then at least somewhat surprising when schools with this advantage don't win the national championship on a fairly regular basis? Again, if not, why not?

Thanks BWH.

11
Platteville has historically been pretty active in the suburban Chicago market. However, this past season, I can't readily remember seeing them at even one area high school game. Does anyone know how UWP's recruiting went this year, both in general and specifically in the Chicago area?

12
I don't know the Oshkosh personnel, but I do know that Johnson would have started as a freshman on other teams that recruited him, and who have been superior to UWO over the past several seasons.
So, if he and the other 2 recruits you mention do indeed pan out, I agree that a Big 3 in the WIAC in coming years is entirely possible.

13
According to many on these boards, there are players who are recruited, and there are players who kind of recruit themselves.  If the distinction can be made prior to their freshman seasons, then other than Connor Raridon, does anyone have an idea which of the NCC recruits are the real deal and could push for PT?  The bigger guys are Ivy, Gardon, Bronec?  How about Jandron, Koth, Chang and Anderson?

There certainly are recruited players and players who recruit themselves. I believe this applies at most schools, not necessarily regularly, but at least periodically.
With specific regard to this year's North Central class of incoming players, I am aware of none that were not recruited by the school in that none of the recruits contacted NCC before the College initiated the process by beginning to observe and evaluate players, some as far back as last summer.
As far as "pushing for PT," anyone who knows the difference between a basketball and a hole in the wall knows that due to this year's graduation losses, NCC's biggest need next season will be to fill the 4-5 positions. Accordingly, I believe Bronec and Gardon, and possibly Ivy, will all be in a position to "push" for PT, this season along with returnees Ireland and Witt.
The front court is a bit more problematic. Notwithstanding his 3 conference game absence due to injury last season, and his limited effectiveness in a couple of others, Jayme Moten is one of the top few guards in the conference. Accordingly, there won't be a lot of available PT to "push" for at the guard position, and much of what will be available will largely depend on whether the coaching staff decides to play Moten at the point or 2 guard next season. Add in the fact Kennel, White, and Fuller all saw considerable PT last year and there might not be much time to "push" for. However, from what I know, if any push is able to be made, Chang and Jandron might be the most likely candidates. I honestly don't know much about Anderson. Again, where Moten is stationed will go a long way in determining just how much time is available and at what guard position.
Lastly, it would not be surprising if the NCC recruiting class didn't see another addition or two.




14
Saw on Wissports.net that Mark Miller reported some recruiting news on Oshkosh and Whitewater on 5/6 and Point on 5/7. I don't get the subscription though. Is this information that has recently been posted?

Yes, it's news that has already been reported...Oshkosh is putting together a really good class to add to a solid nucleus coming back, that article you mentioned had them picking up 6'4" wing Brett Wittchow from Laconia.  Whitewater's pickup was Mitch Pfeiffer from Kettle Moraine.  He's an athletic 6'3" wing who should be a very good WIAC player.  The Point news was already shared in Bangor's Canon O'Heron, a 6'6ish" post that can step back and hit from long range as well.  Turned down atleast 1 Divison 2 scholarship to attend Point.  Point's class coming in has a little bit of everything but I'm hoping they can add a wing with some size to finish it off.

For any interested parties, I can report some Oshkosh news from down south of the cheese curtain here in Illinois. This may have been reported before, but if not, here you go;

For about a month now, Oshkosh has had a committment from Sam Johnson. Sam is a 6'7" PF from Riverside-Brookfield HS here in IL. I have never seen any of the Oskosh recruits play, and know nothing about them. Still, I would be willing to bet that Johnson will be UWO's top recruit. He averaged about 17 PPG and 8 RPG, and was Illinois Basketball Coaches Association Class 3A/4A 3rd team All-State. He shoots threes better than a lot of 2 guards. He was recruited by several CCIW, IIAC, and Midwest conference teams as well as at least one other WIAC team who wears purple.

You admit to not knowing the Wisconsin area recruits for Oshkosh, and I'll admit to not knowing anything about Illinois area recruits...other than the 1 recruit, Robby Nardini, going to Point...who I'm excited about.....but I'm willing to bet Oshkosh's top recruit is Ben Boots, from Kimberly WI.

Well, time will tell, Tom.
Keep in mind, Ben is a guard and Sam a forward so we're talking apples and oranges.
Not sure about Boots, but Johnson played against top level suburban Chicago talent in a huge percentage of his games. Was Boots competition up to that level?
One certainty is that it appears UWO is getting at least 2 top level recruits.
I will bet that Ben Boots does have the coolest name.  ;)

15
And a sportswriter for even a small paper should realize there are major differences both in organizational structure and philosophy between DI and D3. Furthermore, he should understand a major, if not THE major difference is that there are no athletic scholarships in D3, and thus, no "letters of intent."

Sometimes stories about such "signings" and " intent" are the result of ignorance, and sometimes they are just an innocent attempt to pump up a high school kid who is naturally on a high over the prospect of moving to a higher level. Sometimes they are probably a combination of both.

D3 also needs to pull it's head out of it's butt and come up with a name other than "athletics non- binding standardized celebratory form." Kind of takes the fun out of the occasion. Of course, that is often par for the course with the NCAA.  ::)

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