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Messages - AndOne

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North Central 77
Bluffton 61

http://northcentralcardinals.com/boxscore.aspx?path=mbball&id=2976

The Cardinals starting front court tallied 51 points.

After leading the Cards with 25 points the previous evening, Charlie Rosenberg was again the top scorer with 23 last night. To top things off, Sir Charles dished out a game high 5 assists, and took home the Naperville Marriott Tip-Off Tourney MVP Award.

Jack Burchett registered his second double-double in 2 nights, scoring 10 points and pulling down 11 rebounds. The Chairman Of The Boards is averaging 12.5 rpg.

Kevin Honn played a great all-around game scoring 18 points on 5 of 7 shooting, including 4 of 5 from beyond the arc, and 4 of 5 from the line. Additionally, Kevin grabbed 6 rebounds, handed out 3 assists, and made 2 steals.

Freshman Erwin Henry played a strong supporting role with 3 of 4 from the field, and 4 of 5 from the line for 10 points in 18 minutes of play.

NCC hosts western neighbor Aurora, picked to win the NACC, in non-conference action on Tuesday night. The annual tussle begins at 7:00.

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North Central 81
Trinity International 64
http://northcentralcardinals.com/custompages/MBK/mbk1415/Mbb01.htm


Last night the NCC Cardinals got their season started on a positive note with a 17 point win over Trinity International. Senior forwards Jack Burchett and Charlie Rosenberg led the way with 24 and 25 points respectively. Burchett added 14 rebounds to register a double-double. The Burchett-Rosenberg duo is going to cause opponents fits throughout the season.
Card's Freshman Joe Kennell got his college career off on a very positive note, hitting his only field goal attempt, a 3 ball, and going a perfect 8 for 8 from the line down the stretch to seal the victory. To top things off, Joe  played a great floor game, handling the ball well under strong pressure, and dishing out 5 helpers whie not committing a single TO.

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North Region football / Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: November 21, 2014, 01:02:38 am »
I think NCC had as good a chance as any team at making it at least to one of the Purple Altars this year.  They are better offensively and about the same defensively as 2008 Wheaton that made the semis.

But that's not really the issue, is it? The issue is whether or not North Central could win the national championship this season. If it could, then we've got a problem -- because the selection process failed to include a team that's good enough to win the whole shooting match, thereby rendering the premise that the playoffs reveal the best team in the nation to be false.

Being good enough to be one of the sacrificial lambs of Purple One or Purple Two is not the same thing as that at all (although I would argue that NCC was a legitimate national-championship contender last year, based upon how it performed at Mount Union).


Greg,

Under your approach, someone could build a statistical model showing any team in the playoffs had some degree of chance to win the championship. However, we all know that's not realistic.
It seems like the model you are talking about is focused on the very few teams that have the best chance of winning and, other than those few teams, it doesn't really matter what teams are in the playoffs because only the top 3 or 4 have a real chance to win. If that's the case, why don't we just dispense with the formalities of the preliminary rounds and follow the D1 system of just taking the top four teams and have them go 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3, with the winners playing for the championship? After all, they were the only ones who really COULD win going in. Save everyone else the time and trouble.  :D

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North Region football / Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: November 20, 2014, 09:58:33 pm »
I think your use of the word "someday" with regard to NCC making the playoff field, could have used some modifiers. It isn't like it hasn't happened before, and recently at that. You can look it up.  ;)
Perhaps something like "again someday soon."  :)

I am pretty sure HSCoach meant it as such:

The AQ could very well be the reason your team makes the field someday. (As in the ONLY reason.)

Exactly what I was trying to say, but obviously not so well.

The supposed strength of teams and conferences are very hard to gauge with so little national cross over games in the regular season.  And things change in time.  It wasn't too long ago the WIAC champ was considered a one-and-done team, but now that conference is home to the King.  Without AQ's it may keep a conference from stepping forward.

Beyond that, it's a question of fairness and equity. As is the case across the board in NCAA sports -- not just in D3, but in D1 and D2 as well -- the principle is that every member institution and conference that pays its NCAA dues is entitled to equal access to championships. That's why March Madness always features schools such as Mercer, Cal Poly, Wofford, and Stephen F. Austin every year. And people like that, because it's fun to cheer for an underdog. I can understand why that same sentiment doesn't seem to apply here, at least for CardinalAlum and other disgruntled NCC fans, because the D3 football tourney field is much smaller and there's far fewer at-large berths available.

You'll never see an NCAA tournament in any of the three divisions in which the field consists of the best 32 teams in the nation, or the best 61 teams in the nation, or the best 64 teams in the nation, or whatever size the tournament field happens to be for that sport and that division. That's life. As long as all of the teams that have a legitimate shot at winning the national championship are represented, the system works. And I guess that that's the question here: Do people really think that NCC had a legitimate shot at winning the national championship this season if the Cardinals had been awarded a playoff berth?

Asking that question is like the aged philosophy professor asking "what proof is there that the chair you're sitting on is really there?"
Define "legitimate." Where do you draw the line between legitimate and illegitimate? Wherever it is, one thing is for certain and that is NCC had at least as "legitimate" of a chance as teams like Macalester, Benedictine, Hampden-Sydney, and Christopher Newport have.
That is as undeniable as the fact that if the chair wasn't there, my arse would have been on the floor.  :)


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North Region football / Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: November 20, 2014, 05:18:46 pm »
With North Central's season now over, thus ends a grand 13 year era in NCC athletic history, during which its football team was led by both a great coach and a great guy, John Thorne, the focus of the accompanying Naperville Sun article.

http://napervillesun.chicagotribune.com/2014/11/18/final-curtain-call-north-central-colleges-john-thorne/

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North Region football / Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: November 20, 2014, 01:59:17 pm »
CardinalAlum:  I disagree the system is perfect.     The old days of a selection committee picking the 16 without an AQ is not somewhere we want to go to again.  The AQ could very well be the reason your team makes the field someday.

HScoach---

I enjoy many of your posts, and our thoughts are often solidly aligned.

However, I think your use of the word "someday" with regard to NCC making the playoff field, could have used some modifiers. It isn't like it hasn't happened before, and recently at that. You can look it up.  ;)
Perhaps something like "again someday soon."  :)

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North Region football / Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: November 20, 2014, 01:46:07 pm »
IMO from the NCC game on, Peltz was the best player in the conference. The problem is he didn't start for half of the season. My guess is that the coaches in the conference felt that they could either consider him for postseason awards (and likely make him 1st team AC and maybe MOP) or not and they chose the later.  I am actually fine with that and don't really think it makes sense to put him on the 2nd team. 

I like Sorenson as MOP (Swider even credited him with NCC's rushing success) and Conway as 1st team QB (does NP win any conference games without him?).  Peltz is only a sophomore and the league knows he is gonna be a favorite for MOP/All-Conference and maybe All-American lists in the next two years.  I think he is that good and especially with what Wheaton is gonna bring back. 

     

I follow your logic and don't disagree. The problem is this is not the "All Season" awards. This is the All conference awards and he played 5 of 7 conference games and was the best player in the conference and second place isn't close. There are plenty of examples of players earning all conference awards who miss a conference game or two. Shoot, Danny Puknaitis was 2nd team RB for Wheaton and he never started a game this year. He played in every game, had fewer carries, yards per game, and total yards rushing in 10 games than JP11 had in 5 games! How does that make sense?

I should also clarify my comments about the Peltz, Warden, Conway comparison. TD Conway, in my opinion, did the least with the most individual talent. He is very smart QB with a great arm. Peltz and Warden are much better overall athletes and more complete offensive threats because of the their running ability. They are different styles completely. Conway carried NPU, both good and bad. Peltz vaulted Wheaton from a probable 2nd place finish and watching games this weekend to an undefeated season, 2 home games, top 10 ranking and some Thanksgiving madness in Thundertown.

The system is broken.

USee,

Before you get too mad at me, I agree with you on two fronts:
1. Peltz should be somewhere on the all-conference team.
2. When there are only 8 teams in the league and you name QBs representing half of the league's teams it greatly cheapens the process. 3 QBs on the 2nd team is ridiculous. 2 might even be too many. If there is no process in place to break a tie vote, there ought to be.

However, while Peltz did do great things, I think its stretching things a bit to say that during the time he played he "was the best player in the conference, and 2nd place isn't close." Without going into great detail, I doubt you saw any player not wearing a Wheaton uniform play every game that any specific player participated in. Accordingly, you can't know how they preformed in those games. Yes, you can look at a list of stats, but they don't tell you things like the guy who had only 1 catch outfought 2 defenders or made a circus catch to pull in the game winning TD, or the guy who ran the ball in for the game winning TD from 12 yards out broke 6 tackles in those 12 yards. And, as far as the 2nd best player not even being close, it seems like at least 2 players were at least close--Peter Sorenson, the Offensive POY, and Peltz' own teammate Adan Dansdill, the Defensive POY.
I think both their awards were for the total 7 game conference portion of the season.  :)

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North Region football / Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: November 19, 2014, 09:30:20 pm »
Besides which, it doesn't matter because clearly the coaches decided that 15 2nd team players were ok and 3 QB's. I think that's a cop out. Basketball doesn't do it why should football?

The CCIW basketball coaches do put extra players on the All-CCIW team in the event of a tie, USee. In fact, it happened just two seasons ago.

As well as in 2011, 2010, and 2007. :)

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Central Region / Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: November 18, 2014, 09:54:45 pm »
St. Norbert 76
North Park 65

Jordan Robinson: 20 pts
Colin Lake: 17 pts
T.J. Cobbs: 10 pts
Michael Hutchinson: 8 rebs
Garrett Gatz: 4:0 a:to

Greg,

I see NPU won the 2nd half by 9 points! However, they were down 20 at half. What accounted for the slow start?

Oops, we posted about the same time. Maybe the answer is they didn't employ the same strategy in the opening half.

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Central Region / Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: November 18, 2014, 09:46:31 pm »
Wheaton loses to Defiance 67-65

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North Region football / Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: November 18, 2014, 09:42:05 pm »
Someone previously said if NCC would have schedule Alma instead of UWSP, they would be going to the playoffs. Truer words were never spoken because where the NCAA is concerned its "just win baby," especially if you don't win your conference and an accompanying AQ.
I understand there is sentiment for scheduling tough/semi-tough non-confetence teams under the theory that they get you ready for a tough conference schedule. However, in so doing you open yourself to the possibility of being a very good 8-2 team, but staying home while 7-3 and even 6-4 teams that you would kill get to go to the playoffs.
Wheaton scheduled an average team and 2 cupcakes for its non-conference games. Very smart! And that does nothing to detract from the fact that they are an outstanding team. They are going to the playoffs as they should. But they smartly used part of their schedule to help assure that.
You can say a tougher non-con schedule prepares you for conference. You can also say YOU prepare yourself because if you prepare yourself properly, you'll take care of your conference business, cupcake non-con schedule or not.  8-)

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North Region football / Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: November 18, 2014, 09:10:53 pm »
Starting to think about POY and all conference awards for this year. I think it isn't nearly as obvious as years past. Some of the candidates include;

Offense:
Peter Sorenson
Dylan Warden
Johnny Peltz
Luke Thorson
Josh Williams

Defense:
Adam Dandsdill
Logan McRae
Peter Mann
Sean Garvey
Kyle Venhuizen

COY:
Swider
Planz

Who am I missing?

http://napervillesun.chicagotribune.com/2014/11/15/peter-sorensons-option-pass-keeps-north-central-hunt/

Naperville Sun article featuring NCC's Peter Sorenson, the should be CCIW Offensive POY.
I realize I have the advantage of having seen Sorenson play several times this year as opposed to seeing other great players only once. However, if its 4th and goal from the 10 and there is time for only one more play, the sure-handed 6'5" Sorenson is the guy you want to pull in the fade pattern pass in the back corner of the end zone to give you the W.
Peltz was outstanding for CCIW CHAMPION Wheaton, but I'm sorry, I favor the position that says you don't give the MVP to a designated hitter who spends half his time in the dugout or to the player who is out of this world when he plays, but only plays 1/2 of the season. JMHO, and i realize there are other valid opposing viewpoints:)

As I said, I think the coaches made the right choice for Offensive POY. I think the same applies to Dansdill and Coach Swider.  :)
In fact, I think it would be pretty difficult to criticize any of the all-conference picks this year. I am a bit surprised not to see Peltz's name on the list.

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Central Region / Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: November 17, 2014, 09:04:50 pm »
Greg Sager,

NPU roster was released last week and since then, several names already disappeared - any news?

Among others, JayQuan Lee, and Ryan "I'm within sight of the gym, can I shoot now" Hym.

14
North Region football / Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: November 16, 2014, 04:32:00 pm »
Starting to think about POY and all conference awards for this year. I think it isn't nearly as obvious as years past. Some of the candidates include;

Offense:
Peter Sorenson
Dylan Warden
Johnny Peltz
Luke Thorson
Josh Williams

Defense:
Adam Dandsdill
Logan McRae
Peter Mann
Sean Garvey
Kyle Venhuizen

COY:
Swider
Planz

Who am I missing?

http://napervillesun.chicagotribune.com/2014/11/15/peter-sorensons-option-pass-keeps-north-central-hunt/

Naperville Sun article featuring NCC's Peter Sorenson, the should be CCIW Offensive POY.
I realize I have the advantage of having seen Sorenson play several times this year as opposed to seeing other great players only once. However, if its 4th and goal from the 10 and there is time for only one more play, the sure-handed 6'5" Sorenson is the guy you want to pull in the fade pattern pass in the back corner of the end zone to give you the W.
Peltz was outstanding for CCIW CHAMPION Wheaton, but I'm sorry, I favor the position that says you don't give the MVP to a designated hitter who spends half his time in the dugout or to the player who is out of this world when he plays, but only plays 1/2 of the season. JMHO, and i realize there are other valid opposing viewpoints:)

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Central Region / Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« on: November 16, 2014, 01:29:12 pm »
Final from Cincinnati:

Augustana 51
Albion 47

(The game was tied at 26 at the half.)

Perhaps the western Vikings are not the juggernaut they were widely reputed to be. One fly in the ointment was the fact that neither the Augie starting PG nor his primary backup managed assist. A 3rd player at the position posted 1 helper. A strong superstructure, but a rudderless ship??

It's one game ... and the opening game, at that. Aren't you being a little hasty, Mark?

A little hasty?--Yes. Perhaps some wishful thinking.  :)
However, first game or not, I think you would expect the nation's #3 team to beat Albion by more than 4 points.

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