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Messages - gordonmann

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1
Trinity emailed alums today regarding its reopening plans.

I think the pertinent segment for sports is this:

Itís clear that the fall (and likely winter) season of athletic competition will not occur as usual. We will have significantly fewer, if any, competitions in the fall, but we are aiming for physically distanced practices for in- and out-of-season sports and activities to engage our athletes. Our Athletics Department (administrators and coaches alike) has been extremely creative in determining how to engage scholar-athletes during this nontraditional fall season. And we are grateful that their creativity also is informing how to return gradually to other close-contact activities, such as dance. We will keep you informed over the summer, as plans for athletics continue to take shape. (emphasis mine)


2
Multi-Regional Topics / Re: Conference changes
« on: June 25, 2020, 06:16:05 pm »
bump

Provisional Pipeline for 2020-21
First year full members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
*3rd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Colo.)
2nd year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women.
1st year provisional members: Bob Jones (confirmed), Warren Wilson (confirmed)
Exploratory: Manor College (confirmed)

*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

JWU-Denver (SCAC) will close in 2020-21, but ends athletics immediately
MacMurray (SLIAC) closes its doors.

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Finlandia joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
D'Youville leaves the AMCC and Division III for Division II
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Pine Manor joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger*
Pratt joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
UC Santa Cruz joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

* Pine Manor announced that it will close its doors and be absorbed into Boston College after a two-year "teach out period." The CAC-ACAA press release indicates Pine Manor will compete in the CAC in 2020-21 and then "depart the conference," assumedly with athletics closing before 2021-22.

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Iowa Wesleyan leaves SLIAC and NCAA for NAIA
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

3
Northeast Region / Re: MBB: NESCAC
« on: June 22, 2020, 04:44:46 pm »
Sure. I was just trying to understand how a schedule might come together for football if, say, five schools decide to can sports. I guess the other six or so could play each other but that's a small schedule.

4
Northeast Region / Re: MBB: NESCAC
« on: June 22, 2020, 04:37:09 pm »
Are those still-playing NESCAC institutions going to play non-conference games or just play each other multiple times?

5
North Region football / Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« on: June 22, 2020, 04:13:12 pm »
It is very unlikely Bowdoin will be the only NESCAC school to take that stance.

That conference usually moves as a unit, even when there are dissenting opinions behind the scenes.

Also, Bowdoin's announcement included the statement that their winter sports athletes will not participate in games before January 1st. Bowdoin is a national title contender for the women's basketball title. So this is a big deal.

6
The sentence that really struck me was this one:

"With priority given to seniors, if the fall semester goes as we hope, we expect to have our seniors, juniors, and sophomores return to campus for the spring semester, with the added possibility that our winter and spring athletes may be able to engage with their sports in some way."

A lot can change in six months but "may be able to engage with their spring sports in some way" doesn't sound good.

7
East Region football / Re: FB: New Jersey Athletic Conference
« on: June 19, 2020, 01:27:18 pm »
Quote
Quote from: thewaterboy on June 14, 2020, 09:05:55 pm
Quote from: jmcozenlaw on June 14, 2020, 07:58:19 pm
"Hello Wesley Football Players..................it's Duke Greco on Line 1, Nick Brady on Line 2 and Mike Isgro on Line 3".

"Boys, how would you like to come up to bucolic Doylestown, PA and play for the #7 ranked team (wayyyyyyyyy overranked given the losses at LB, NT, and all across the offense) in the 2020 Preseason Poll"?
Too soon bro. If this goes through and Wesley football doesn't exist, that is going to hurt. Take this post somewhere else.

Life is too short. Smile, have fun, laugh, help others less fortunate, pray. None of this is the end of the world. Wesley will remain open in some iteration. Many smaller schools won't have that option and will be closing their doors permanently. I'm too mature to use that the word 'bro' (and the even more goofy 'bruh' that I see everywhere..........who came up with THAT one??), so I will just call you Adam (as in Sandler, the waterboy). Also, if you look at it from several different perspectives, having some schools that are natural landing spots (success on the field, academic programs, beautiful campuses, diversity) for Wesley is critical as this is all about the student-athletes..........not about us. DelVal has done a great job over the years recruiting high end players from Delaware (Sean Miller, Nick DiGati, Sammy Mohr to name a few) as well as getting a slew of Wesley transfers. Heck, the only reason McSweeney did not go to DelVal was because the QB situation was set and he did not want to sit for a couple of years.

Relax. There are many more important things in life happening right now. Seek to be the change and make things better. God Bless.
That's your perspective and that's fine. 2 points: 1. Nothing is set yet. It seems there's still a few hurdles to clear still and on the football end for Wesley, things seem to be proceeding as normal. So yeah, a little too soon. 2. When a program shuts down, you lose a whole community of people. Alumni, players, coaches, students and fans. The whole group of people that make Saturdays fun. Ask anyone on this board how they would feel if their team ceased to exist next season. It would suck. It's easy for you to say what you are saying because Del Val is going to be just fine and may, as you suggest, land a few transfers. That is fortunate that there are so many great landing spots on the east coast if Wesley football disappears. The players will be fine for that reason.


I've been thinking about this exchange and just wanted to express empathy for the Wesley football folks.

I've been involved with Delaware Valley football for years now and, without intending to sound melodramatic, it is one of my favorite parts of life. That tiny press box in James Work Memorial Stadium is my happy place. The community around that program -- the players, coaches and university staff -- is really important to me, and I haven't played a down of football in years.

If Del Val football went away, I would be crushed. Yes, the players would find other places to play, the coaches would find other places to coach and life would go on. I'd find somewhere else to be on a Saturday afternoon. But nothing would ever really replace that void.

Del Val is special, but probably not unique. I see some of the same dynamics in Wesley -- a program that wins beyond its means and where the "family" dynamic is built into the fabric of the program. I also think of Wesley as Del Val's closest rival at this point. A lot of the most memorable Aggies games -- good and bad -- over the last 10 years or so involve the Wolverines.

I hope Wesley can stay find a way to keep that community alive.

There are more important things in life than football, but few things more important than community.

8
West Region / Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« on: June 19, 2020, 11:12:28 am »
Hey, who you calling Independent? Finlandia is now a member of the CAC! Show them some respect!

PS - I know that won't help scheduling. This is a joke Ryan Scott made in another context so I'm reusing it as an homage to him.

9
Multi-Regional Topics / Re: MBB: University Athletic Association
« on: June 05, 2020, 03:10:34 pm »
Quote
And, speaking of NYU and recruiting, head coach Dagan Nelson was interviewed on a podcast this week.

He did talk about the recruiting advantages he has at NYU and even suggested that he gets 60-70 e-mails a day from prospects and could field 6 or 7 teams.

That speaks to volume of recruits, not quality. Would any of those 6 or 7 teams contend for the UAA title?

10
Multi-Regional Topics / Re: MBB: University Athletic Association
« on: June 05, 2020, 03:09:05 pm »
Quote
While I understand Gordon's point ... couldn't that be said about a lot of the schools in the UAA? Most of them are succeeding.

Could be the difference between schools that are need blind and those that are need blind and committed to filling the financial aid needs of the students they admit. Take it for what it's worth but NYU is listed as the former. You can get in, but you may not be able to afford it. Same goes for Brandeis and CMU.

https://www.cappex.com/articles/match-fit/need-blind-admission-colleges

Emory, Rochester and Chicago are in the latter category.

11
Multi-Regional Topics / Re: MBB: University Athletic Association
« on: June 05, 2020, 12:01:43 am »
When I spoke with their new head coach last summer, I got the sense that recruiting was a challenge.

My understanding is that NYU doesn't offer financial aid -- they don't need to because the demand for admissions is so high -- which means their recruiting pool is restricted to players who can pay full freight to play there.  So now you are looking for players who can succeed academically at NYU, want to live in NYC (not everyone does), afford NYU and play basketball at the level you want.

https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2018/05/atn-nelson-hassell

The natural question for which I have no answer is, "If the lack of an on-campus home court or the financial aid limitations are such a problem, why doesn't the women's team struggle, too?"

12
Multi-Regional Topics / Re: Conference changes
« on: June 01, 2020, 09:56:38 am »
Thanks! So now we have...

Provisional Pipeline for 2020-21
First year full members: Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer
*3rd year provisional members: SUNY Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Colo.)
2nd year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (Texas), Mississippi University for Women.
1st year provisional members: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson (confirmed)
Exploratory: Manor College (confirmed)

*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

MacMurray (SLIAC) closes its doors.

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Cazenovia leaves the NEAC for the NAC
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Finlandia joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Dean leaves the NECC for the GNAC
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Pine Manor joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger*
Pratt joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
SUNY Cobleskill leaves the NEAC for the NAC
SUNY Delhi leaves the ACAA for the NAC
SUNY Poly leaves the NEAC for the NAC
UC Santa Cruz joins the CAC as part of the ACAA-CAC merger
Valley Forge leaves the ACAA for the CSAC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

* Pine Manor announced that it will close its doors and be absorbed into Boston College after a two-year "teach out period." The CAC-ACAA press release indicates Pine Manor will compete in the CAC in 2020-21 and then "depart the conference," assumedly with athletics closing before 2021-22.

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
Mary Baldwin will add men's program, begin play in the USA South (tentative)
Southern Virginia leaves the CAC for the USA South
St. Mary's (Md.) leaves the CAC for the NEAC
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
St. Scholastica leaves the UMAC for the MIAC

13
Mid-Atlantic Region / Re: MBB: Capital Athletic Conference
« on: May 29, 2020, 11:33:49 am »
Yes, exactly.

14
Mid-Atlantic Region / Re: MBB: Capital Athletic Conference
« on: May 28, 2020, 04:56:59 pm »
Quote
And btw -- who the heck is in Va Beach?  ;D

Shoot, I thought that's where CNU is. Should've said Newport News.

15
Mid-Atlantic Region / Re: MBB: Capital Athletic Conference
« on: May 28, 2020, 12:59:27 pm »
It's not clear to me what benefit the ACAA members get from this, beyond they technically have access to AQs.

That's not an immediate benefit to Pratt, which is just entering the first year of the four-year process now. That's not a benefit to Pine Manor who's going away entirely in a year.  I don't know about other sports, but that's not a meaningful benefit for Mills, Finlandia or Mount Mary in basketball because they either don't have the sport or aren't competitive in it.

Other than the very occasional UC Santa Cruz team who has been good enough to compete a Pool B bid, do these schools have a lot of teams that are missing NCAA playoffs in other sports but arguably good enough in them to compete if they could just get access? How much of a recruiting tool is it if you have access to a bid that you have very little chance of earning?

The other reasons that apply to conference membership -- ease of scheduling, travel to markets where you want to promote your school,  working with like-minded institutions -- don't apply to this move.  Finlandia's quote cites the benefit of "increasing the recruiting region for their programs." So Finlandia will now recruit more students from the Virginia Beach, Delmarva or Washington DC markets because a couple teams play in that area on a random basis once or twice a year? How will sending their women's hoops team to  Virginia Beach so they can lose by 45 in the first round of a four-team tournament help recruiting more than, say, spending money on a billboard would?

In some cases, I think the merger will give the ACAA members less access to the benefits of conference membership. One of Thomas More's reasons for joining the ACAA was it would allow their players to be eligible for all-conference honors. So all those awards went to Madison Temple or another TMC player for that season, instead of the traditional ACAA members. Similarly merging with the CAC just makes it less likely that those awards will go to ACAA members.

Mathematically, having more conference members, a cluster of which are within driving distance of each other, will make it less likely that the ACAA members will host postseason events, right?

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