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Messages - jamtoTommie

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1
The media makes it sound like UST = Alpha Beta's  and the rest of the MIAC = Lambda Lambda Lambda.


I mean, we've been trying to convince y'all of this for a long time. It's about time somebody listened.

2
I attended St Thomas with a pretty generous academic financial aid, as did many other students I knew with a decent academic resume. I did not play sports. When I graduated, my dad and I were discussing what I had for student loans and he almost fell out of his seat when he learned how little I had in student loans.

I had both of my sons graduate from Bethel in the last 8 years. My younger has been out just three years and his loans have been paid off for 3 months now. His brother had his paid off before he left grad school. (He got a full ride there.) It has been our observation that ACT scores matter, and applying early pay huge dividends after graduating.

Full disclosure - our daughter went to another private college out East and she graduated with more debt and probably would have her loans paid off by now, but she is involved in a protracted divorce, which is not helping things.

My student loan load was helped also by some local scholarships (small town dynamics help), a free semester in seminary, and a consistent work study gig, along with working for my dad's business in the summers and J-Term, etc. My sister went to pharmacy school at Creighton and left with 6 figures of debt (she also makes way more than I do and was able to pay it off quickly).

Then of course I went and completed an MBA (not at UST), racking up a decent chunk of debt while working full-time and supporting a family. So I've got the student debt noose hanging around my neck anyway.

3
Sounded like they "voluntarily" decided to leave before the vote.

If you want to buy that story line ...

Kind of like the story line the newspaper that covers Thomas More wanted to believe (that TMU decided to leave the conference ... in a quick year ... on it's own).

I don't know how you got that from the text at the link.... it clearly says " the University of St. Thomas will be involuntarily removed from membership in the Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (MIAC). "  Clearly NOT UST's decision.

I said "voluntarily" based on this paragraph.

It would have required nine of 13 presidents to vote to change the bylaws and start the ejection of St. Thomas by force. However, an agreement was reached which rendered a vote unnecessary. If St. Thomas had not left the conference, there was a distinct possibility that schools such as St. Olaf, Carleton and Macalester could choose to consider leaving the conference to find a home where it could win more contests.

So, reading this, I think they "voluntarily" chose to leave before a vote was taken. I suppose they felt it was inevitable, so start the process now.

If somebody was holding a gun to my head and had demonstrated that they were insane enough to pull the trigger, I guess I would also "voluntarily" do whatever they told me to do.

4
The rest of the MIAC got tired of having to compete against Division II and low-mid-major Division I athletes in their Division III conference.
I'd love to know what St. Thomas' best athletes are paying to go to school there. I do not think I am suggesting anything untoward as their are many, many ways to keep things street-legal as far as the NCAA is concerned - but financial aid is the elephant in the room. St. Thomas is a very good academic school that rightly attracts student-athletes for the right reasons, but families absolutely take financial aid into consideration when making decisions - and when your son has an offer from a Division II school and a Division III school is also recruiting you, the better academics are only going to take you so far when you're discussing free vs. what Wikipedia states is St. Thomas' average student cost of $30,000 AFTER financial aid. You cannot build an ass-whupping athletic program at the D-III level with only the level of athlete paying 30K per year.

So what exactly are you suggesting? That St Thomas has better student aid and scholarship packages across the board than other schools?

I attended St Thomas with a pretty generous academic financial aid, as did many other students I knew with a decent academic resume. I did not play sports. When I graduated, my dad and I were discussing what I had for student loans and he almost fell out of his seat when he learned how little I had in student loans.

5
Using the MIAC Presidents Council model, maybe the MIAC FB board should be kicked off this site. You have twice as many posts as any other West Region Football. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just kidding.

First, we need to get rid of all the posters that have too strong of a karma ratio.

Bye bye johnnie posters. It's been fun.

6
Has this been shared on this thread? It's the entire MIAC Press Release.
https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/b/z/199ggq8je5pzq2/MIAC_Membership_Supplemental_Information.pdf

Thank you for the link. That's a lot more information than the brief press release yesterday.

Interesting that SJU is the only constant member of the conference since inception.
I found that interesting too. UST/CST was only gone for a very short blip. I might try to find the backstory on that later.

7

I'm still looking for somebody to do a rewrite of American Pie focused around the hook "The day the MIAC died."

I'll buy a Hamms beer at the UST-STO November 2nd tailgate for the most successful rendition.

If somebody rewrites that opus, man up and buy him a case.  Crikies!  It's a long song.

Maybe just a short portion of the song, no need for all 11 (?) minutes worth

Just some random fantasies about future possibilities that won't happen but is fun to throw out there...

Is there any possibility that this causes one of the schools against this move to jump ship? Certainly they'd have to have a place already willing to take them before they'd do it. Maybe as a travel partner with St Thomas if they can land in another D3 conference.
Or even more improbably, could a new conference be formed from a few MIAC schools unhappy with these events along with some others joining in from the ARC, UMAC, MWC, etc.


I saw an indication from a current UST student that some other schools are prepared to jump out of the conference with us. No idea how plugged in that person would be, but I have my doubts and it certainly wouldn't happen without them having a locked down landing spot and we are pretty far from that.

8
I had originally tried to view this situation with some perspective - certain MIAC schools weren't comfortable with the direction, mission and scope of UST as an institution and felt they had outgrown the MIAC. That could be viewed as a reasonable assessment of the situation, although one I don't fully agree with. My jaw about hit my computer desk when I read the MIAC statement - this situation was apparently all about "competitive balance" on the playing field - from their own statement. If there is more to it than that, they haven't done themselves any favors by not sharing those other factors.

Also troubling is that it has been reported that UST involuntarily withdrew, without the by-laws regarding enrollment being changed or a vote being taken (which sounds like a mafia type form of governance - "we have enough to bury you, do the right thing and take yourself out"). Given how this unfolded, the door has been left wide open for similar pressure to be put on other programs that could be viewed as upsetting the desired competitive balance in the future. "You better aspire to be mediocre and play nice, or else".

I hadn't really appreciated the fundamental change this represents to the culture of the once proud MIAC until today. Welcome to UMAC 2.

I propose that they amend the bylaws to specify precisely what level of athletic success is deemed acceptable so that future schools know when to scale back the success levels to mediocrity for a bit to avoid the chopping block. Ya know, all for the sake of transparency which is a pretty important ideal in higher ed, right?

9
Pat - the "Free Fallin" licks in the background of the podcast were hilarious because of the irony. Well played.

I'm still looking for somebody to do a rewrite of American Pie focused around the hook "The day the MIAC died."

I'll buy a Hamms beer at the UST-STO November 2nd tailgate for the most successful rendition.

10
I had posted the following on the MIAC board earlier today, but it may not have been taken as intended, given the more serious stuff they are dealing with.

"There may be unintended consequences w the idea of the WIAC amending rules to allow St. Thomas in. We’d end up w a conference that is home to three teams to have reached the Stagg Bowl in the last ten years-surely the Pool C rules would need to be amended."

My intent isn't to claim WIAC greatness. My point is, the discussion to change the playoff selection process that happens every year will be even more intense for the WIAC as it's likely one or two very capable teams will be left out. 

On the flipside, the MIAC wouldn't be an automatic 2-bid league anymore. And WIAC+UST would be a bloodbath on an annual basis (even moreso than it already is in the WIAC). Truly week in week out. My dream would be for UST to move to WIAC (reasonable drives for some away games, solid matchups for home games) and schedule SJU and Bethel OOC.

11
Concordia is the puzzling one here, since it sounds like SJU, CSB, and Bethel held ground. Horan is very good friends with Caruso by all accounts. Caruso has been in Herzog's hospital room recently. Not that FB coaches speak for institutions, but given the school’s competitiveness it is somewhat surprising to me. I’m guessing there are a lot of emotions and disagreements within many MIAC member schools athletic offices today.

In the months ahead 3 current Presidents will leave their roles at MAC, St Johns, and Bethel. The conference will look very different. This is St Olaf’s world now; everyone else is just living in it. Margin of victory gets too large, AD will get called to Principal Anderson’s office. #1 in your logo, too ambitious...no soup for you

I think it's clear that there was a divide between FB coaches/AD/Presidents. I believe our pal redtooth has given the indication that Concordia President/Board may not have been a slam dunk on this and that's apparently how it shook out.

I actually would be curious to be a fly on the wall down in Northfield. 97-0 or not, I'd be surprised if Kilian was actually in favor of #TomToss (from a football perspective) but other parties and other interests obviously drove the Ole boat.

12
It's not just some anonymous source cited in the Strib. This is our conference Greg, we are actually pretty tied in to what's going on.

What he said.

Greg, I've find it a little odd that you'd never made a MIAC post prior to this TomToss debacle, yet now you are staking claims as an authority on it.


If St. Thomas' greatest margin of victory over the last five years in-conference was 40 points, even with all their All-Sports titles, would this conversation be happening?

Out of curiosity, and I'm not suggesting it is necessary, but who was the last team to make a nationally competitive playoff run (let's say semifinals) without winning a single game by 40 points or more?

We can debate all day (and have for years) the finer points about the unwritten rules of what sportsmanship entails. We can also agree that there is a certain point at which taking your foot off the gas, benching starters after the first quarter, not letting your guys put it all out on the field (regardless of what the competition is giving to you) hurts you, especially if the aim is national competitiveness.

I need a mulligan on this last post.
I initially meant to joke with Duff that Greg, the ultimate fact checker, might challenge his claim about never posting on this board.

Regarding the 40 points, I'm not suggesting St. T scores too many points. I'm wondering if this issue would have even come up with the MIAC if St. T's greatest margin of victory in-conference was 40 or whatever number is deemed reasonable?

I'm not suggesting you are suggesting that. Just merely considering if it's even possible for that to be the case AND to have a nationally competitive program at the same time.

13
It's not just some anonymous source cited in the Strib. This is our conference Greg, we are actually pretty tied in to what's going on.

What he said.

Greg, I've find it a little odd that you'd never made a MIAC post prior to this TomToss debacle, yet now you are staking claims as an authority on it.


If St. Thomas' greatest margin of victory over the last five years in-conference was 40 points, even with all their All-Sports titles, would this conversation be happening?

Out of curiosity, and I'm not suggesting it is necessary, but who was the last team to make a nationally competitive playoff run (let's say semifinals) without winning a single game by 40 points or more?

We can debate all day (and have for years) the finer points about the unwritten rules of what sportsmanship entails. We can also agree that there is a certain point at which taking your foot off the gas, benching starters after the first quarter, not letting your guys put it all out on the field (regardless of what the competition is giving to you) hurts you, especially if the aim is national competitiveness.

14
We've talked in part as to what the possible outcomes might be. The following are listed in no particular order - but what makes the most sense for the Tommies now?

1. Jump directly to D1.
2. Go the "standard route" and go through D2 to D1.
3. Stay in D3 and join another conference like the WIAC or ARC.

Fall out discussion:

1. How long before MAC comes back to the MIAC for football?
2. Can St. Scholastica beat them out of that position? (Or any other school for that matter?)
3. How disparate will be the scores between the Tommies and the CoL? (It is my opinion that we are going to have some mighty entertaining games this fall.)

FWIW - I can see how the Tommies could make a better spin to the NCAA because they were "kicked to the curb" as opposed to wanting to leave the MIAC.

Conspiracy theorists are saying, "I know - it all was an evil genius ploy all along to get the NCAA to play along so that the Tommies don't have to do 5 years of penance in D2." 

So many tangents, so little time.

My preferred conference routes are:
1. WIAC
2. ARC
3. Summit/Pioneer? - D1
4. NSIC - D2

As far as the scores for this fall - I favor the approach of getting up by 40 in the 1st quarter and then just play crushing defense and kneel the ball every down on offense, if that's what they really want us to do.

15

Charley Walters tweets the same.
 
@Charley_Walters
4 minutes ago
 
Look for the MIAC at 11 a.m. today to announce that the University of St. Thomas will be involuntarily removed from the league, but remain for two years while deciding its future level of competition.

Hey BDB ol' buddy ol' pal from my favorite conference the WIAC. How you doing old friend? I hope you and the other wonderful Sconnie folks are doing well. Can I get you a refill of your Miller Lite?

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