Author Topic: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference  (Read 2725754 times)

Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19785 on: May 22, 2019, 01:54:52 pm »
I believe Greek Tragedy appropriately used air quotes here.
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Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19786 on: May 22, 2019, 02:09:33 pm »
I believe Greek Tragedy appropriately used air quotes here.

True true...
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Offline miacmaniac

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19787 on: May 22, 2019, 02:37:39 pm »
Sounded like they "voluntarily" decided to leave before the vote.

If you want to buy that story line ...

Kind of like the story line the newspaper that covers Thomas More wanted to believe (that TMU decided to leave the conference ... in a quick year ... on it's own).

I don't know how you got that from the text at the link.... it clearly says " the University of St. Thomas will be involuntarily removed from membership in the Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (MIAC). "  Clearly NOT UST's decision.
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Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19788 on: May 22, 2019, 02:45:07 pm »
Wow -- people are not reading sarcasm today.
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Offline hopefan

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19789 on: May 22, 2019, 04:34:26 pm »
Pat... is there really nothing else behind this that the article isn't talking about...  under the table monies, or low academic requirements, some crazy additional benefits to student athletes....??

If not, this just seems crazy to me... who is next?  Hope?  IWU?  Hanover?  Wittenberg?

I don't understand why St. Thomas isn't fighting it.... or will they be?

Would love to see a serious Coleman, Sager etc discussion on this....

ooops.. just noticed some discussion going on it the Post Patterns site
my off the cuff (and with no knowledge).. St Thomas should have stayed, let the dissenters go to the UMAC or NAIA....

« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 04:48:35 pm by hopefan »
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Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19790 on: May 22, 2019, 05:22:44 pm »
If not, this just seems crazy to me... who is next?  Hope?  IWU?  Hanover?  Wittenberg?

Why does somebody have to be next? This isn't dominoes.

Every league has a different situation. The MIAC's situation doesn't resemble that of most other leagues. I don't see what happened to UST as having any bearing upon anybody else in terms of how other leagues relate within their own circuits.

As Pat cogently pointed out today, the nearest analogy we have to this is when Wheaton got tossed out of the CCIW (which was then called the CCI) for stringing together four straight undefeated seasons in league play in basketball and for winning seven straight football titles (over the course of which Wheaton only lost two league football games). And that was all the way back in 1959, when Dwight Eisenhower was still in the White House, Elvis Presley was still the ruler of the pop charts, and football and basketball were the only two sports that mattered on the collegiate level.

That's a long time between analogous situations.

I don't understand why St. Thomas isn't fighting it.... or will they be?

UST did fight it ... and lost. The braintrust of the Tommies tried to persuade the braintrust of the other MIAC schools to keep UST in the league. They were unable to do so, because certain other schools are implacably opposed to staying in a league with UST, and the other members went along with the UST haters in order to keep the league together.

There was nothing else that UST could do ... other than to dictate in some small measure the circumstances of its ouster. It got to announce publicly that it was involuntarily leaving the league (meaning that it could paint the MIAC's remaining members as the bad guys), it got the league to announce that UST would leave as a member in good standing (reinforcing the fact that the Tommies hadn't broken any rules), and it got a two-year grace period before it exits in order to find a new home for Tommies sports.

Would love to see a serious Coleman, Sager etc discussion on this....

ooops.. just noticed some discussion going on it the Post Patterns site
my off the cuff (and with no knowledge).. St Thomas should have stayed, let the dissenters go to the UMAC or NAIA....

Impossible. UST (and its presumed allies, SJU and CSB and perhaps Bethel) were the dissenters; the other schools were the majority and held all of the cards. In the end it all came down to holding the league together. If multiple schools threaten to leave the MIAC, and then they carry out that threat because the rest of the membership votes to keep UST in the circuit, then the MIAC's automatic bids to D3 tournaments and meets in various sports could end up in serious jeopardy. Bottom line: It's better to lose one school than it is to either have the league fall completely apart or to lose so much of it that the league's status within D3 in terms of championship access is compromised. Apparently the more neutral schools were persuaded that the hardcore anti-UST faction wasn't bluffing, and so they reluctantly went along with Tomtoss.
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Offline hopefan

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19791 on: May 22, 2019, 05:43:49 pm »
Greg     +1   great synopsis for me....
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Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19792 on: May 22, 2019, 06:18:56 pm »
Nobody has to be next, but someone could be. Does the MIAC's coalition of losers rest on its laurels of moving from 7th-8th-9th in football to 6th-7th-8th? Thankfully, this is creating enough of a firestorm in the media, including national sports media, that it might dissuade other presidents in other conferences from doing the same thing. However, such things are likely to be fleeting, and lessons might not be learned, and other conferences could decide to follow suit.
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Online Caz Bombers

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19793 on: May 22, 2019, 08:53:39 pm »
you know somebody stepped in it when The Guru adopts the COL terminology!

Offline Fifth and Putnam

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19794 on: May 22, 2019, 09:49:12 pm »
I know I've read a couple of names on Twitter and such today, but does anyone definitively in the know who the school or schools were who were the main drivers of this push to remove UST?

Also what role did the commissioner play in this? I know this falls ultimately on the members of the conference to decide and vote (which it never came to) but he either supported this or surely pleaded with the schools to reconsider.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 10:01:56 pm by Fifth and Putnam »

Offline Flying Dutch Fan

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19795 on: May 23, 2019, 08:11:15 am »
As disgusted as I am by all of this I will be looking at a lot of MIAC scores for conference games the next 2 seasons.  The "accusers" in this claim UST was running up the score in some instances, which I think is BS.  So if you're going to kick them out for it, I would expect them to confirm to what they are accused of - and I secretly hope they do.  I realize that's a pretty revengeful way to respond, but sometimes you get what you ask for.
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Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19796 on: May 23, 2019, 12:24:00 pm »
Sounded like they "voluntarily" decided to leave before the vote.

If you want to buy that story line ...

Kind of like the story line the newspaper that covers Thomas More wanted to believe (that TMU decided to leave the conference ... in a quick year ... on it's own).

I don't know how you got that from the text at the link.... it clearly says " the University of St. Thomas will be involuntarily removed from membership in the Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (MIAC). "  Clearly NOT UST's decision.

I said "voluntarily" based on this paragraph.

It would have required nine of 13 presidents to vote to change the bylaws and start the ejection of St. Thomas by force. However, an agreement was reached which rendered a vote unnecessary. If St. Thomas had not left the conference, there was a distinct possibility that schools such as St. Olaf, Carleton and Macalester could choose to consider leaving the conference to find a home where it could win more contests.

So, reading this, I think they "voluntarily" chose to leave before a vote was taken. I suppose they felt it was inevitable, so start the process now.
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Offline jamtod

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19797 on: May 23, 2019, 12:39:11 pm »
Sounded like they "voluntarily" decided to leave before the vote.

If you want to buy that story line ...

Kind of like the story line the newspaper that covers Thomas More wanted to believe (that TMU decided to leave the conference ... in a quick year ... on it's own).

I don't know how you got that from the text at the link.... it clearly says " the University of St. Thomas will be involuntarily removed from membership in the Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (MIAC). "  Clearly NOT UST's decision.

I said "voluntarily" based on this paragraph.

It would have required nine of 13 presidents to vote to change the bylaws and start the ejection of St. Thomas by force. However, an agreement was reached which rendered a vote unnecessary. If St. Thomas had not left the conference, there was a distinct possibility that schools such as St. Olaf, Carleton and Macalester could choose to consider leaving the conference to find a home where it could win more contests.

So, reading this, I think they "voluntarily" chose to leave before a vote was taken. I suppose they felt it was inevitable, so start the process now.

If somebody was holding a gun to my head and had demonstrated that they were insane enough to pull the trigger, I guess I would also "voluntarily" do whatever they told me to do.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19798 on: May 23, 2019, 02:11:15 pm »
There was a vote - even if it was informal or a straw poll. People knew the numbers.

It is well believed the president at St. Olaf is the ring-leader with this one... from there, I would have to do more homework (every time I started I got angry and had to step away).

And UST hasn't been accused of any wrong-doing in reality.

I think this could result in a further split of the MIAC ... but too early to really put a finger on it. I just don't think some of the others are going to let this be the end of it all.
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Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #19799 on: May 23, 2019, 03:27:29 pm »
When my work is busy, my employer posts a "voluntary" overtime sheet. There's a chance that I could get mandatory overtime if not enough people sign up voluntarily. So, some people sign up voluntarily so they don't get mandatory...not sure what the difference is, but that's their excuse. I'm guessing St. Thomas may have voluntarily agreed to leave before being forced out, thus leaving on good terms?
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