Author Topic: MBB: Colonial States Athletic Conference  (Read 427128 times)

Pat Coleman

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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2005, 11:50:06 pm »
There's a difference between being a part-time coach/full-time employee of the school and being a part-time coach who has to earn his or her rent money off campus. Surely you recognize that.

Cavs33

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« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2005, 01:32:43 am »
Yes I do recognize that, but to say that "the posting of this job as a part-time position signifies the college's reduction in support for athletics in general and men's basketball" is just a flat out wrong statement, the job was part time for the last 25 years so i do not see a reduction anywhere

Pat Coleman

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« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2005, 01:34:04 am »
Then you are not LOOKING, son. Time on campus for the coach is reduced. Is that not going to affect the program? You're blind if you don't see it.

Cavs33

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« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2005, 01:22:30 am »
Final Statement: I love coach Dzik and I wish him the best, if it wasnt for him I wouldnt be at Cabrini today, he gave me a second chance that many coaches would not have done, I will respect him for the rest of my life, he is a great person and coach and the main reason I went to Cabrini, he didnt deserve what happen to him, but at the same time, I am going to support the new coach, my teammates, and my school.

Coach C

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« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2005, 02:09:43 pm »
Cavs33 -

You embarrass me.  I thought you of all people would understand.  If you need to talk to someone becasue you are having a problem during the off season, it is a heck of a lot easier to talk to your head coach IF HE IS ON CAMPUS.  Dzik was always there and believe me he was a full-time head coach.  

Are you going to call a part itme coach at the golf course he is working at or the insurance agency he works for or the high school he teaches at?  Wouldn't it be better for all involved if the head coach was on campus all week all year?  Wouldn't it be better if he was at the meetings with administrators and faculty?

I can tell you from hard experience that the full-time coaches generally do better with recruiting, winning and especially graduating student athletes.  Part time coaches can do a good job, but it is MUCH harder for them to do it on a consisten basis.

Offline heatlee

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« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2005, 05:05:48 pm »
I concur with everything that Coach C said.  Check out the best D III programs in any sport, and more than likely their coaches will be FULL-TIME, not part-time.

Offline heatlee

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« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2005, 05:10:11 pm »
Let me restate myself. I concur with everything Coach C said about part-time coaches.  I don't think anyone embarrassed themselves.

Pat Coleman

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« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2005, 09:02:01 pm »
That's good, because he didn't actually say anyone embarrassed himself.

Cavs33

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« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2005, 10:03:11 pm »
Here's my understanding..... a full time coach is a coach whose only job is to coach a basketball team from 9am - 5pm everyday and his salary represents that (example is jay wright and phil martelli whose only responsibility is to coach basketball). Yes Coach Dzik was a full time employee of the school but his main job was not basketball. He was a part time basketball coach (who put in full time hours). And yes I obviously agree that time on campus is reduced if your not a full time employee of the school. And yes I agree it is easier to win as a coach and it is a better situation for all involved if you are a full time employee. My only arguement is that the school only made a coaching change and did not make any reductions to the program. I ask you a question, what should the school do after getting rid of Dzik, hire the best possible basketball coach who is already an employee at the school just so they can have a full time exployee of the school as their coach, or should they go out and find the best possible coach available for their part time position?

Pat Coleman

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« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2005, 12:59:12 am »
NEITHER. They should have a full-time position. Don't fool yourself -- at many schools the men's basketball coach wears another hat, perhaps teaching courses, a facilities manager, assistant athletic director or athletic director. That is far better than having a coach who is only around some of the time.

Not having a coach on campus full-time is indeed a reduction to the program.

Coach C

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« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2005, 03:59:05 pm »
Cavs33 -

It's really unusual for a program that is as successful as Cabrini has been to go from a coach who is a full-time employee to a coach who is a part-timer. But then the whole situation was far more than unusual.

Indeed, the trend is otherwise.  Most colleges are trying to improve (both on the flor and in the classroom) by finding ways for coaches to be on campus all the tiem to help mentor student athletes.

In the old days it was likely that the head coach would also be a phys ed teacher or an admissions counselor.  More recently, colleges have gotten more and more creative in how thye employ coaches on campus.

And you are kidding yourself if you think that Phil Martelli or Jay Wright just coach basketball.  I know those guys and they would KILL to just coach rather than attend fundraisers and coffee klatches and meetings and planning sessions.

Cavs33

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« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2005, 07:27:14 pm »
Yes I know one very well, and attending fundraisers, coffee clatches, meetings, and planning sessions are all basketball related functions. That is a much different obligation than being an athletic director. Can you imagaine if Jay Wright was also the athletic director at Villanova?

Offline heatlee

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« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2005, 09:36:38 pm »
If a coach is at a successful Division III program and is a full-time employee of the college, be it in any position, AD or SID, their main job is to COACH basketball.  When it is basketball season they are the basketball coach who is the AD or SID, not the AD or SID who is the basketball coach.

To be peerfectly honest many AD's have GREAT secretaries who are at times are the people who run the show.  That enables them to coach and be successful.

Coach C

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« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2005, 12:35:21 am »
Cavs33 -

Surely you are not comparing the being the AD at Villanova, with beind the AD at Cabrini.  Villanova has nearly twice as many sports, about 40 times the athletic budget, very different regulatory issues, etc.  You simply can't even begin to compare a major D1 athletic program to a small, if respectable D3 program that doesn't even have football or baseball.

Your definition of 'basketball-related' is also a stretch.

Bottom line is that Cabrini has made a decision that basketball, basketball players and athletics in general are not as important at the school as it used to be.  It's a shame given what had been built there over the last 20 years or so, but every school has to review its priorities now and then.

It's not like Cabrini is going to become Bard overnight, but getting back to the Sweet 16 doesn't seem too likely unless a new direction is taken.

I am not saying ANYTHING negative about the players in the program, but it is hard to win consistently when you dont have strong support from the campus and administration.

Cavs33

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« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2005, 03:14:12 pm »
No I am not comparing Villanova and Cabrini but my point is, the job of the head basketball coach of Villanova is 100% basketball related (fundraising for the basketball team is still a basketball related function). He does not have to worry about another job at the college and how it interfers with his coaching. The head basketball coach at Cabrini has to coach basketball and also has to be an athletic director. Cabrini doesn't pay their coaches enogh money to just coach and not have another job. Therefore, Villanova's head coaching position is a full time basketball coach. Cabrini's basketball coach is a part time basketball coach and full time athletic director (yes he is a full time employee of the school but not a full time basketball coach). Thats the best I can do to explain my point.

I agree that a coach that is a full time employee of the college is the best possible situation for everyone involved, and I hope the current coach can get a full time position on campus. I apoligize but I just do not see how a coaching change symbolizes how basketball isnt as important to the school as it used to be.  

I will reiterate myself again, I love Coach Dzik and he is a special person and I do not agree with how he was treated by the school, but because of that whole situation I do not feel the college has made the basketball program seem less important.